Individual licensing questions

[Pi Digital]

The fallacy to your analogy is that with the new LC Create, you will be paying for (or at least subsidising) the server it is run from and the database storage (even if you don’t make use of it). For LC9 the analogy holds up. But as that’s going away it would seem LCLtd are kinda doing the ‘right thing’ by making it a full service rather than pure software and charge a sub. Sorry, I know that’s triggered a number on here. 

Sean Cole
Pi Digital

> On 29 Jul 2024, at 18:25, Heriberto Torrado via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> HI Phill,
> 
> The subscription and download payment model began in the world of video games with downloadable content (DLC). Many software manufacturers quickly realized that charging for content downloads or monthly application use could be a lucrative business. This model has since evolved into SaaS (Software as a Service) payments. However, this approach is fundamentally unfair, as users must continue paying for the software even if they do not need continuous updates, or they must stop using it altogether.
> 
> This situation is as absurd as buying bricks and mortar to build a house and then being forced to pay a monthly fee for those materials, even if you do not want your house renovated every six months. This critique is not aimed at Livecode specifically but at the software industry in general. Over time, people will likely begin to reject this business model and seek alternatives.
> 
> This scenario mirrors the 1980s when people, frustrated with the high prices of mainframes and minicomputers, switched to personal computers. Similarly, those fed up with the exorbitant costs of UNIX systems transitioned to Windows NT and eventually to LINUX. While you can exploit customers for a while when they feel captive, they are much smarter and more resourceful than companies might think.
> 
> Best,
> Hery
> 
>> On 7/29/24 10:57, Phil Smith via use-livecode wrote:
>> Yes, the subscription model in general, not just LiveCode, is set up that way.  You are actually paying for features ahead of time with the subscription model.  At least that's how I see it.
>> 
>> I know that's the industry standard now, I just *hate* it, though.
>> 
>> But don't take that as an attack on Livecode, that's just my personal opinion on how software licensing works these days.
>> 
>> ----------------------------------------
>> 
>> From: "Kevin Miller via use-livecode"<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
>> Sent: 7/29/24 9:36 AM
>> To: How to use LiveCode<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
>> Cc: Kevin Miller<kevin at livecode.com>
>> Subject: Re: Individual licensing questions
>> 
>> I'm not sure I quite follow. I'm commenting on the SaaS model in the industry vs the historic pay-per-upgrade model. You buy a SaaS platform then get updates (sometimes dozens of them) each your as your subscription is current. 70% + of business SW is SaaS now and growing. Any it was just intended to be a minor point.
>> 
>> Kind regards,
>> 
>> Kevin
>> 
>> Kevin Miller ~kevin at livecode.com  ~http://www.livecode.com/
>> 
>> LiveCode: Build Amazing Things
>> 
>> On 29/07/2024, 15:07, "use-livecode on behalf of Phil Smith via use-livecode" <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com  <mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com>  on behalf ofuse-livecode at lists.runrev.com  <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> Maybe I'm not reading ths right but does that not say that you want customers to pay for new features *before* they have been developed? When I buy a product, I of course expect to have all the updates and platforms ready at that time.
>> 
>> That's like saying that after I buy a new car, I have to start making additional payments to pay for new features on the next vehicle and hope they are ready when I buy it.
>> 
>> Really don't understand that statement.
>> 
>> ----------------------------------------
>> 
>> From: "Kevin Miller via use-livecode" <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com  <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>>
>> 
>> Sent: 7/29/24 7:27 AM
>> 
>> To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com  <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>>
>> 
>> Cc: Kevin Miller <kevin at livecode.com  <mailto:kevin at livecode.com>>
>> 
>> Subject: Re: Individual licensing questions
>> 
>> From a general business point of view, the business model where someone buys an update every few years is not equitable. Customers expect you to have all the new features or new platform support ready when they arrive for their update, yet haven't paid for that to happen. Development costs continue steadily throughout that intervening period.
>> 
>> However for this particular historic use case, its not something we want to get in the way of. If those customers are still around in 3 years time when Classic support ends I'm sure we can figure something out for you if you contact us directly.
>> 
>> Kind regards,
>> 
>> Kevin
>> 
>> Kevin Miller ~kevin at livecode.com  <mailto:kevin at livecode.com>  <mailto:kevin at livecode.com  <mailto:kevin at livecode.com>> ~ http://www.livecode.com/  <http://www.livecode.com/>  <http://www.livecode.com/>  <http://www.livecode.com/>>
>> 
>> LiveCode: Build Amazing Things
>> 
>> On 26/07/2024, 18:08, "use-livecode on behalf of J. Landman Gay via use-livecode" <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com  <mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com>  <mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com  <mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com>> <mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com  <mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com>  <mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com  <mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com>>> on behalf of use-livecode at lists.runrev.com  <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>  <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com  <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>> <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com  <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>  <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com  <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>>>> wrote:
>> 
>> I hope this is generic enough.
>> 
>> I have several clients who use apps I created just for them, 20 years ago
>> 
>> or more. Frequently these are converted HyperCard stacks like address books
>> 
>> or recipe files. The apps are personal and no one else uses them. Every 2
>> 
>> or 3 years they contact me because the app stops working, usually due to an
>> 
>> incompatible OS update. I recompile the app, and sometimes make a few
>> 
>> requested tweaks. Since a compile takes only a few minutes, and because I
>> 
>> know these people personally, I charge almost nothing for these services.
>> 
>> My last invoice for a rebuild and a minor change was $75.
>> 
>> I do not want to tell them that they will need to spend hundreds of dollars
>> 
>> more for a one time minor update. They will not want a subscription because
>> 
>> it's years between changes. And because they are not companies and many are
>> 
>> now retired, paying hundreds of dollars to maintain an address book is not
>> 
>> feasible. I am very sensitive to their budget requirements.
>> 
>> I'd like to propose a floor under which no royalty or subscription is
>> 
>> required. A minimum charge of, say, $500 would yield $25 to LC at the 5%
>> 
>> rate. A charge of $1000 would yield $50.
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay |jacque at hyperactivesw.com  <mailto:jacque at hyperactivesw.com>  <mailto:jacque at hyperactivesw.com  <mailto:jacque at hyperactivesw.com>> <mailto:jacque at hyperactivesw.com  <mailto:jacque at hyperactivesw.com>  <mailto:jacque at hyperactivesw.com  <mailto:jacque at hyperactivesw.com>>>
>> 
>> HyperActive Software |http://www.hyperactivesw.com  <http://www.hyperactivesw.com>  <http://www.hyperactivesw.com>  <http://www.hyperactivesw.com>> <http://www.hyperactivesw.com>  <http://www.hyperactivesw.com>> <http://www.hyperactivesw.com>> <http://www.hyperactivesw.com>>>
>> 
>> On July 26, 2024 6:04:30 AM Kevin Miller via use-livecode
>> 
>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com  <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>  <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com  <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>> <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com  <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>  <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com  <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>>>> wrote:
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
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>> 
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