Individual licensing questions

Mon Jul 29 13:25:23 EDT 2024

HI Phill,

The subscription and download payment model began in the world of video 
games with downloadable content (DLC). Many software manufacturers 
quickly realized that charging for content downloads or monthly 
application use could be a lucrative business. This model has since 
evolved into SaaS (Software as a Service) payments. However, this 
approach is fundamentally unfair, as users must continue paying for the 
software even if they do not need continuous updates, or they must stop 
using it altogether.

This situation is as absurd as buying bricks and mortar to build a house 
and then being forced to pay a monthly fee for those materials, even if 
you do not want your house renovated every six months. This critique is 
not aimed at Livecode specifically but at the software industry in 
general. Over time, people will likely begin to reject this business 
model and seek alternatives.

This scenario mirrors the 1980s when people, frustrated with the high 
prices of mainframes and minicomputers, switched to personal computers. 
Similarly, those fed up with the exorbitant costs of UNIX systems 
transitioned to Windows NT and eventually to LINUX. While you can 
exploit customers for a while when they feel captive, they are much 
smarter and more resourceful than companies might think.

Best,
Hery

On 7/29/24 10:57, Phil Smith via use-livecode wrote:
> Yes, the subscription model in general, not just LiveCode, is set up that way.  You are actually paying for features ahead of time with the subscription model.  At least that's how I see it.
>
> I know that's the industry standard now, I just *hate* it, though.
>
> But don't take that as an attack on Livecode, that's just my personal opinion on how software licensing works these days.
>
> ----------------------------------------
>
> From: "Kevin Miller via use-livecode"<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Sent: 7/29/24 9:36 AM
> To: How to use LiveCode<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Cc: Kevin Miller<kevin at livecode.com>
> Subject: Re: Individual licensing questions
>
> I'm not sure I quite follow. I'm commenting on the SaaS model in the industry vs the historic pay-per-upgrade model. You buy a SaaS platform then get updates (sometimes dozens of them) each your as your subscription is current. 70% + of business SW is SaaS now and growing. Any it was just intended to be a minor point.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Kevin
>
> Kevin Miller ~kevin at livecode.com  ~http://www.livecode.com/
>
> LiveCode: Build Amazing Things
>
> On 29/07/2024, 15:07, "use-livecode on behalf of Phil Smith via use-livecode" <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com  <mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com>  on behalf ofuse-livecode at lists.runrev.com  <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>> wrote:
>
> Maybe I'm not reading ths right but does that not say that you want customers to pay for new features *before* they have been developed? When I buy a product, I of course expect to have all the updates and platforms ready at that time.
>
> That's like saying that after I buy a new car, I have to start making additional payments to pay for new features on the next vehicle and hope they are ready when I buy it.
>
> Really don't understand that statement.
>
> ----------------------------------------
>
> From: "Kevin Miller via use-livecode" <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com  <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>>
>
> Sent: 7/29/24 7:27 AM
>
> To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com  <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>>
>
> Cc: Kevin Miller <kevin at livecode.com  <mailto:kevin at livecode.com>>
>
> Subject: Re: Individual licensing questions
>
>  From a general business point of view, the business model where someone buys an update every few years is not equitable. Customers expect you to have all the new features or new platform support ready when they arrive for their update, yet haven't paid for that to happen. Development costs continue steadily throughout that intervening period.
>
> However for this particular historic use case, its not something we want to get in the way of. If those customers are still around in 3 years time when Classic support ends I'm sure we can figure something out for you if you contact us directly.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Kevin
>
> Kevin Miller ~kevin at livecode.com  <mailto:kevin at livecode.com>  <mailto:kevin at livecode.com  <mailto:kevin at livecode.com>> ~ http://www.livecode.com/  <http://www.livecode.com/>  <http://www.livecode.com/>  <http://www.livecode.com/>>
>
> LiveCode: Build Amazing Things
>
> On 26/07/2024, 18:08, "use-livecode on behalf of J. Landman Gay via use-livecode" <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com  <mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com>  <mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com  <mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com>> <mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com  <mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com>  <mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com  <mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com>>> on behalf of use-livecode at lists.runrev.com  <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>  <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com  <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>> <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com  <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>  <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com  <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>>>> wrote:
>
> I hope this is generic enough.
>
> I have several clients who use apps I created just for them, 20 years ago
>
> or more. Frequently these are converted HyperCard stacks like address books
>
> or recipe files. The apps are personal and no one else uses them. Every 2
>
> or 3 years they contact me because the app stops working, usually due to an
>
> incompatible OS update. I recompile the app, and sometimes make a few
>
> requested tweaks. Since a compile takes only a few minutes, and because I
>
> know these people personally, I charge almost nothing for these services.
>
> My last invoice for a rebuild and a minor change was $75.
>
> I do not want to tell them that they will need to spend hundreds of dollars
>
> more for a one time minor update. They will not want a subscription because
>
> it's years between changes. And because they are not companies and many are
>
> now retired, paying hundreds of dollars to maintain an address book is not
>
> feasible. I am very sensitive to their budget requirements.
>
> I'd like to propose a floor under which no royalty or subscription is
>
> required. A minimum charge of, say, $500 would yield $25 to LC at the 5%
>
> rate. A charge of $1000 would yield $50.
>
> --
>
> Jacqueline Landman Gay |jacque at hyperactivesw.com  <mailto:jacque at hyperactivesw.com>  <mailto:jacque at hyperactivesw.com  <mailto:jacque at hyperactivesw.com>> <mailto:jacque at hyperactivesw.com  <mailto:jacque at hyperactivesw.com>  <mailto:jacque at hyperactivesw.com  <mailto:jacque at hyperactivesw.com>>>
>
> HyperActive Software |http://www.hyperactivesw.com  <http://www.hyperactivesw.com>  <http://www.hyperactivesw.com>  <http://www.hyperactivesw.com>> <http://www.hyperactivesw.com>  <http://www.hyperactivesw.com>> <http://www.hyperactivesw.com>> <http://www.hyperactivesw.com>>>
>
> On July 26, 2024 6:04:30 AM Kevin Miller via use-livecode
>
> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com  <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>  <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com  <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>> <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com  <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>  <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com  <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>>>> wrote:
>
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