Subject: Drawing a curved shape - 2nd attempt

[Randall Reetz]

I have never asked for a game server.  I dont build games... Have never even played one.  Secondly, yes i do keep hoping and praying and asking for features that would extend the original user-level programming ethos of allan kay and bill atkenson to the modern world we live in.  Sockets are to xtalk what a machine shop is to an erector set.  
All of you should be agreeing with me, not fighting me.  These things i ask for are obvious ways for xtalk to do for today's computing world what smalltalk and hypertalk did for the mid 1980's.  Namely, to wrap deep functionality into a pedestrian common english syntax.  To un-socket sockets as it were.  I am writing deep pattern engine and symantic engine in xtalk, so dont dare say i am unwilling to go the coding distance.  I have written self optimized multithreading into xtalk.  I wrote a symantic indexing system into xtalk.  I have written a full resolution independent 3D engine in xtalk.  But what i find it dificult to do is write the same code everyone else is writing just to limp xtalk into the present.  That goes so counter to the original intent of xtalk.  How is the rev product threatened by deep thinking people wondering aloud what features would make xtalk that much more powerful and contemporary?  

-----Original Message-----
From: "Brian Yennie" <briany at qldlearning.com>
To: "How to use Revolution" <use-revolution at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: 2/1/2009 11:36 PM
Subject: Re: Subject: Drawing a curved shape - 2nd attempt

Randall,

There's nothing wrong with presenting a wish list. The problem is, it  
seems like every few weeks you have an extensive set of "must-haves"  
to share and don't want to hear that you might have to do more work  
than ranting about how they should all be native xTalk commands. First  
you wanted a game server - but apparently didn't want to deal with  
sockets (even though Rev has a very nice socket API). Then you wanted  
file system events built in to Rev. Now you seem to want Flex / Flash  
feature sets embedded into Rev. Rev is a great tool, but it's not for  
everything and it will not be able to encompass every project you  
dream up with high level commands. Adding a curve object, a good idea.  
But then you put something out that looked more like a list of  
demands, filled with every buzz word you could think of around the  
subject. That's not constructive, and it's not insightful.

Slowwww down my friend (and yes, we are ALL friends here including  
"us" =)). Discuss things. Keep the name calling for some other list. I  
would suggest looking into "constructive critism" if you want people  
to accept it.

Curve object. Good idea. Let's focus there.

I believe Richard just pointed out that it's a good idea to consider  
multiple tools. Right now I am having a blast becoming proficient in  
Flash / ActionScript 3. There are many things I can do in Flash that I  
don't believe there is any chance whatsoever of ever doing in Rev, and  
vice versa. They are completely different paradigms. Likewise, I'm  
glad I know MySQL well, because if I was trying to run a large scale  
website with Rev as my database I'd be out of business. I'm also  
running ElectroServer, which is a high performance gaming server  
written in Java. If I had to code it from scratch in Rev, it could be  
a nightmare and I would probably never catch up with what is already  
out there. You see, every project you've been wishing to do on this  
list, I could start tomorrow because I have many tools at my disposal.  
So I would say Richard's suggestion was pretty good advice. And yes,  
I'm actively using Rev as part of my projects as well =).

> Oh yes, here come the attack dogs.    Richard, everyone  is welcome  
> to their openion.  Andrew has a deep and distinguished career in  
> post script and xtalk and large scale software projects.  Stop with  
> the (very predictable) defensive attack everytime anyone cares  
> enough about xtalk to offer a wish list or a considdered and deeply  
> experienced openion.  Why would somone want a curves in rev or some  
> other xtalk IDE they work in?  Why wouldnt they???  Going out to  
> another media editor and bringing caned constructions into xtalk  
> will never give you the kind of live user interaction (under dynamic  
> code control in real time) that you would have if it was a native  
> function.  So if you really want to protect the image of rev do so  
> as a big person who is big enough to accept criticism... Maybe even  
> freely and openly invite it!  Rev is certainly good enough to live  
> within an active and critical market and user community.  Your  
> attacks are pompus and hurtful and have a tendancy to quiet anyone  
> who might not be so bold and self assured as andrew.  And there is  
> no reason.  You are a smart man richard.  Use it to break down the  
> walls.  Lets bring everyone and all their opinions along on this  
> wonderful journey.  There is room for change... Especially when it  
> is 20 years past due.
>
> randall
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