[OT] Opinions about On-Rev

Andre.Bisseret Andre.Bisseret at inria.fr
Sat Apr 18 05:04:25 EDT 2009

Thank you very much Jacque for these clear explanations.
If building web pages in On-Rev is really just building stacks as I do  
now then yes, that's a very nice progress.

Up to now, I mainly use and feed  2 sites but which were built by  
friends of mine; I am myself not at all knowledgeable in this matter.

And I must say, that after reading the posts on these 2 long threads,   
I got the feeling that stacks metaphor was beeing on the verge to  
disappear, or at least to become somethins like "old fashion  
programming", without being able to clearly understand what they would  
be replace with!

I would like very much to built sites; so I am ready to learn a little  
bit of complementary syntax (or/and a bit of procedures) if it is  
really necessary, but surely not a lot.

Thanks again

Best regards from Grenoble

Le 18 avr. 09 à 03:21, J. Landman Gay a écrit :

> Joe Lewis Wilkins wrote:
>> I have found this whole subject so far over my head that I'm  
>> embarrassed. Can anyone sight some sort of reference that just  
>> "might" get me off of my desktop. I am soooo uneducated on this  
>> topic. Simply stated, what's this for, why is it needed and what  
>> does it let us do that we can do now? There MUST be others who are  
>> just as much in the dark.
> It's kind of hard to explain if you don't create web pages or have a  
> familiarity with how they are written. But in a nutshell, web pages  
> written in pure HTML are static. Whenever you see a page that does  
> something dynamic -- buttons with different rollover states, data  
> that changes depending on live user input, dynamic content of any  
> type -- those actions must be scripted into the page using a second,  
> scripted language like JavaScript or PHP. The scripted language is  
> integrated into the same page as the HTML code and the server  
> interprets the scripts and shows you dynamic content.
> Up until now, anyone who wanted dynamic content on a web page had to  
> learn one of those other languages. What has just happened is that  
> Runtime has figured out a way to allow a web server to work with our  
> familiar xtalk, and allow that to be embedded into a web page  
> instead of one of the other languages. This is big stuff.
> The server needs to be set up in a particular way to allow this, and  
> as of now, only Runtime has that setup in place. They have made  
> their web service available so we can take advantage of this new  
> capability. Their setup pretty much matches industry standards in  
> terms of features and capability -- except for this remarkable  
> scripting feature which no one else has. There is nothing to lose by  
> changing to Runtime's web hosting service, and everything to gain if  
> you want to write web pages using the language we know and love.
> For years now, the Rev engine has always had the capability to work  
> with a server as long as it was set up as a CGI service. This is a  
> complicated and tedious task in general, but once it was set up it  
> works well. (This method isn't going away, by the way. It will still  
> be functional for those who want it.) However, with the new HTML- 
> integrated capabilities, CGIs are no longer needed. You can write  
> HTML and Rev script in the same web page and your users will see  
> content based on whatever your scripts do. You don't have to worry  
> about any of the complexities of CGIs because none of that matters  
> any more (permissions, engines, Apache installation, missing  
> libraries, line endings, etc. All moot now.)
> Anyone who's had to work with the old-style CGIs will find the new  
> method liberating. One of the hardest things to do was debug a CGI;  
> it was very much like working with HC version 1.0 where the only way  
> to know what a variable contained was to put its contents into the  
> message box. If you got a script error, it was up to you to figure  
> out the problem, because the clues were sparse if they existed at  
> all. That's all over with now. RR provides a live debugger that lets  
> you step through the scripts on a web page just as though you were  
> working in a stack. That alone is worth the price of admission for  
> web page authors.
> For me, I haven't seen such a cool thing since I was gobsmacked by  
> the ability to run a stack from a remote server in one line of script.
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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