Embedded objects in fields

Tue Jul 5 08:43:31 EDT 2005

Charles,

I am a firm believer in "Rules are meant to be broken" and KISS (Keep 
it simple stupid). I am also a Rebel at heart so I take the suggestions 
from people about good form and then 'see' what it might look like in 
real life. If my alternative solution works and is good enough than I 
go for it. Also, I believe the audience is your judge and depending on 
who the tutorial is for should dictate the actions you take.

I will say there are very good reasons for some standards and 
guidelines. And simple for a user is not always simple for the 
programmer in fact it sometimes takes complicated solutions to make 
something appear simple for the user.

Lastly, I feel it is our duty as programmers(even hobbiest) to make any 
app or tutorial follow good form and suggest others to think the same 
way.

I would love to see your stack when finished.

GL

Tom

On Jul 5, 2005, at 7:46 AM, Charles Hartman wrote:

> Yes, but couldn't it be argued that in this sense a tutorial app -- in 
> effect, just a slicker & thinner alternative to a textbook -- has 
> requirements-on-the-user's-attention different from a normal, 
> "productive" app? Even *opposite* requirements? Slow 'em down! Block 
> that skimming! OK, I know it isn't as simple (or as complicated?) as 
> that . . . I just keep remembering Einstein, Things should be as 
> simple as possible, and no simpler. But I didn't mean to start a UI or 
> HIG thread.
>
> Charles Hartman
>
>
> On Jul 5, 2005, at 7:31 AM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:
>
>> 2 cents:
>>
>> I agree. It is not good moving buttons in fields or groups. It makes 
>> it too hard for users to develop a motor plan for those buttons. A 
>> motor plan is what happens during touch typing or even during walking 
>> where our muscles develop a plan to those activities without having 
>> to think about it.
>>
>> In fact having to think about it is what slows us down. Try to think 
>> about the muscles in your legs moving while walking down the stairs - 
>> careful because you might actually fall down. Using motor plans is 
>> the 'only' way to become truly proficient at using professional 
>> software. This is true for menus as well - constantly moving menus 
>> around make a user stop and then have to search for the menu and item 
>> visually.
>>
>> There have been hundreds of papers and years of research done on 
>> this. It is part of what I do for a living.
>>
>> I think that games might be the exception to this where movement is a 
>> part of the fun of the game.
>>
>> Tom
>>
>> On Jul 4, 2005, at 5:18 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Just my two cents -- and it's a holiday here so my brain may be 
>>> otherwise engaged -- I think putting buttons into scrolling fields 
>>> is a terrible UI idea. By definition, it puts certain functionality 
>>> out of the reach of the user until and unless s/he scrolls the 
>>> field. Lotus NOtes allowed this and every time I saw an app designed 
>>> to take advantage of it, users got confused.
>>>
>>> I suspect I feel the same way about buttons in scrolling GROUPS. 
>>> Interactive functionality needs to be where users 
>>> can...well...interact with it, no?
>>>
>>> Dan (who fears he's probably started another one of those "up your 
>>> opinion" threads that are so much fun)
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jul 4, 2005, at 8:14 AM, Charles Hartman wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jul 1, 2005, at 1:04 PM, Mathewson wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I have just downloaded the SuperCard 4.5 demo and found
>>>>> they have a new feature:
>>>>>
>>>>> allowObjects
>>>>>
>>>>> this lets the user embed object (images and so on) inside
>>>>> FIELDS:
>>>>>
>>>>> WOW - I would love scrolling text fields with pictures!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- and buttons! (At the moment I'm doing this is a non-scrolling 
>>>> field inside a scrolling group, but aside from being tedious that 
>>>> has other disadvantages, such as the scroll-wheel not working 
>>>> right.)
>>>>
>>>> Charles Hartman
>>>>
>>>>
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>>
>>
>> Macintosh PowerBook G-4 OSX 10.3.9, OS 9.2.2, 1.25 GHz, 512MB RAM, 
>> Rev 2.6
>>
>>
>> Advanced Media Group
>> Eagle Works Art & Sculpture
>> Semantic Compaction Systems
>> Prentke Romich Company
>> Prentke Romich International
>> SCIconics, LLC
>> Artist
>> Thomas J McGrath III
>> 3mcgrath at adelphia.net
>>
>>
>>
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Macintosh PowerBook G-4 OSX 10.3.9, OS 9.2.2, 1.25 GHz, 512MB RAM, Rev 
2.6

Advanced Media Group
Eagle Works Art & Sculpture
Semantic Compaction Systems
Prentke Romich Company
Prentke Romich International
SCIconics, LLC
Artist
Thomas J McGrath III
3mcgrath at adelphia.net