OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development?

Paul Dupuis paul at researchware.com
Mon Sep 9 15:44:30 EDT 2019


If I want to develop an small OSX (or Windows) app for my wife to help 
her keep track of some hobby related items, I should not have to code 
sign or notarize it for OSX or Windows or, honestly, any platform.

Every OS should provide a way that the USER is still in control of their 
OS and can tell the OS, I trust this application. Period.

Attempting to idiot proof the OS only leads to the creation of more idiots.



On 9/9/2019 2:07 PM, Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode wrote:
> Although i understand anyone´s concern about Apple new requirement for notarization, i welcome Apple´s effort to make Mac OS X apps more secure for the users. I was also not very happy when i first heard that  10.14.6 will not start unnotarized apps right away.
>
> But what are our options here?
> Either we stop developing for Apple or we fulfill Apple´s requirements. Everyone has to decide for her/himself, if the extra work for this Notarization is worth it.
>
> Even if there is a way to run unnotarized apps under Mojave by going to security control panel and allow the app to be opened, i think this is not very user friendly and also not not very trustworthy, regardless if it is a free or a commercial app.
>
>
> Under  Windows developers have to purchase a CodeSigining Certificate which costs from 79,- to 300,- USD, depending on where you buy from and depending on the type of the certificate, to be able to codesign.  And if i remember right, also under future Windows versions it will be more difficult to run unsigned Apps. At least there will be a popup with a warning message, this is currently in Win10 the case. That is also not very trustworthy, isn´t it?
>
>
>
> Anyway, some weeks ago i´ve posted a link to a Livecode lesson which not only describes the required manual steps to notarize and staple an app for distribution outside the Mac Appstore , but also includes an helper stack which does all the needed steps.
>
> You´ll find the lesson here: <http://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1122100-codesigning-and-notarizing-your-lc-standalone-for-distribution-outside-the-mac-appstore>
>   
>
> Regards,
> Matthias
>
> Matthias Rebbe
>
> free tools for Livecoders:
> InstaMaker <https://instamaker.dermattes.de/>
> WinSignMaker Mac <https://winsignhelper.dermattes.de/>
>> Am 07.09.2019 um 13:18 schrieb Peter Reid via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>>:
>>
>> I've been using LiveCode as my development platform since 1999. Practically all the apps I've developed have been for in-house use by my family, friends and customers - all very low numbers of copies distributed in an informal manner. I've no interest in App Store distribution and the users of my apps trust me such that they do not need my apps to be "approved" by Apple. What's more important to them is how quickly I can release new apps and new versions of existing apps.
>>
>> Up to and including macOS Mojave my users can run my apps with the minor inconvenience of having to right-click an app and approve its use, just once. With macOS Catalina, if I understand things, it's not so simple, instead these are the options:
>>
>> 1. Code-sign and notarise my apps – I'm not interested in this for my kind of apps which are essentially in-house/at home developments.
>>
>> 2. Using an active Internet connection, go through the right-click technique as now not just once, but EVERY time the app is opened.
>>
>> In the past the 'Security & Privacy' General tab had a 3rd option for the setting 'Allow apps downloaded from:' which allowed you to install and use apps from any source. It seems that this is not possible with Catalina.
>>
>> So with Catalina my users will need an Internet connection and will have to go through the right-click authorisation process every time they open one of my apps.
>>
>> More seriously, it is becoming increasingly difficult to recommend the combination of the Mac plus LiveCode for app development. Up to now I've done all my app development on Mac+LC, even where the target platform is Windows or Android or Linux – I find it's simply faster, less error-prone and more pleasant with the Mac. However, from Catalina onwards even simple little utility apps, created for short-term use, will be tedious when opening or you have to learn about the complexity of code-signing and notarising and accept slower development cycles due to the need for Apple's approval!
>>
>> This is quite depressing, especially since I abandoned iOS development due to Apple's distribution restrictions.
>>
>> Back when the iPad 2 had just been released I developed for one of my customers an app to support health & safety audits for a national UK retail chain. The app took me 15 days to develop in total. As a result of being able to field a team of 10-20 staff with iPads running my app, my customer was able to carry out 350 half-day H&S audits for 3 years. However I was unable to roll-out this app to other customers as the ad hoc distribution method I was using was limited to 100 iPads per year and the App Store was not appropriate for this type of app.
>>
>> As a result of the limitations Apple impose on tablet app distribution, recently I developed a speech-aid app just for small Android tablets and larger phones. I have not made an iOS app. This app is low volume (in terms of number of users) and requires significant personalising in order to be effective for its users (typically they are stroke victims). I chose to deliver the app on Android because of the facility to use developer mode and because of price – Android 7in tablet plus minimal add-ons: £80, Apple iPad plus add-ons: £320. Some of my users of this app already have an iPad but they are having to buy a cheap Android tablet. Like the Mac and Catalina, the iPad and iOS is driving away potential app developers due to Apple's rigid control of the delivery mechanisms.
>>
>> Maybe I'm wrong, Catalina will be OK – if I am wrong, please correct me!
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Peter
>> --
>> Peter Reid
>> Loughborough, UK
>>
>>
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