[OT] Draconian computer company policies, was: Mobile LC Apps Downloading Stacks After installation

Mark Waddingham mark at livecode.com
Sat Aug 12 06:57:11 EDT 2017

A very interesting read - thanks Curry :)

I guess I was very much focused on the specific clauses on downloading executable code - which is no longer just an Apple thing - Google's is now very similar (i.e. Stricter than it used to be) and I suspect the other app stores on android will follow suit.

I do think those clauses are about security (otherwise they seem to much of a blunt instrument) and from that point of view they can be considered reasonable (especially when the scale of the ecosystems is considered) - if incredibly irksome for us!

Of course other aspects of Apple's policies (and the fact it is their AppStore or nothing) are a different matter entirely - as you eloquently point out.

Warmest Regards,


Sent from my iPhone

> On 11 Aug 2017, at 21:43, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> Mark:
> > I think Johnathan made the best point here - if you want into the
> > iOS world and the AppStore Apple provide you have to abide by their
> > rules. However, if you don't care about the AppStore, then just
> > jailbreak your phone and run free - no-one is stopping you.
> > It is entirely your choice :)
> No, it's not merely a personal matter by any stretch of the imagination. This is a social and tech reality that affects all of us, our technological environment. You are framing this as primarily a security matter to save the masses, with a handy personal jail break or xCode opt-out that solves the matter for any individual who feels differently. (No thanks on JB, nor do I generally recommend that to others. Nor is my interest mainly personal, but rather as a consultant and developer. I doubt most true end users feel comfy with xCode, assuming they even have a Mac.) Sorry, I tend to be a frame breaker! It's missing out on the bigger picture of Apple's system, and similarly the impact of tech trends, not only from Apple but other major players.
> Much more complex, and it affects us far beyond our own choices. While someone here is waxing poetic about the security benefits, at one time or another someone has likely iPhoned that person's own data around insecurely in ways that would alarm you! Perhaps it has happened to you too without your knowledge. I've seen it too many times, very widespread. Often by people working for a reputable company or providing a vital professional service, but clueless or careless. Neither is the data completely secure even with companies that are more careful - the masses don't realize that. At the same time people are desensitized to sharing more data than ever. That makes them - and through them, sometimes you - very vulnerable.
> Security goes way beyond malware. Security is an integral part of Apple's system, but it's not a system primarily for the sake of security. Fairly easy to have safe apps outside of a particular app store. One way would be setting up other download repositories that are checked. Another is using networked antivirus systems, which are already popular and advanced.
> Going beyond security - breaking that frame again - it's much bigger. Richmond already had some good points, so maybe I don't need to add any, but for example: Actual publishing standards and choices are not all about security, quality, decency, and good style as advertised. Marketing versus reality. What viewpoints, topics, or potentially beneficial technologies might be suppressed? That would not be a big deal when there are multiple venues, but when there is one....
> The whole society is also affected by tech trends, and the circle goes around, consumer behavior and choices, how professionals use and sometimes misuse the tech (I'm seeing that too, it can be within the law but extremely harmful for consumers), data expectations and proliferation, over-availability or under-availability of information, control, ideology, intrusive or invasive trends, healthy awareness and ability versus dangerous dumbing down and complacency, more comprehensive security versus a sense of security or partial security, the effects of dependency on a single venue and its viewpoint and its quirks - in the end, everyone is touched.
> Perceiving how technology trends impact society, and in turn come back to impact each of us, is very valuable and all too easy to overlook as we rush to keep up with those trends and create new ones. Definitely worth a look for those who don't want to avoid one type of risk only to fall into another! Stay safe. Hope everyone is doing well -- I haven't been able to pop up much here in the list lately.
> Best wishes,
> Curry Kenworthy
> Custom Software Development
> http://curryk.com/consulting/
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