Helping newcomers anticipate that standalones can't save tothemselves

larry at significantplanet.org larry at significantplanet.org
Fri Aug 15 11:54:39 EDT 2014


Great concept from Paul.
To that I would add this:  I agree 100% that the LC documentation is slowly 
improving, but has a LONG way to go.
Speaking of tutorials, what would be really helpful is a series of videos 
that are screen capture tutorials - someone who knows what they're doing 
literally walking a newbie through a specific lesson.
As you all know, there is a ton of free or for purchase screen capture 
software out there.  I am not sure the best way to organize this idea, but 
if this list could somehow come up with an organized list of topics, then 
one or more programmers on the list could create the video(s) for a 
particular topic and post it somewhere.
Personally, I would recommend a series of videos that range from something 
as simple as how to drag a button onto the IDE and set its properties (even 
I could make that video) to something as complex as creating a plugin for 
the IDE. (for someone else to make!)
If we had a video series such as this, I would absolutely encourage some of 
my (young) grandchildren to learn programming basics with LC and the videos.
I really do believe that one of the great strengths of LC is that a "newbie" 
can actually make a simple program that actually works - and not just "Hello 
World."
I've never taken a programming class, but because of LC (and this list 
helping me) I've written dozens of little programs that I personally use a 
lot and a couple of "bigger" more sophisticated programs.
That's my opinion of what this list might want to think about.
Larry

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Paul Hibbert" <paulhibbert at mac.com>
To: "How to use LiveCode" <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Sent: Friday, August 15, 2014 9:28 AM
Subject: Re: Helping newcomers anticipate that standalones can't save 
tothemselves


> From my own point of view, I struggled trying to understand some of the 
> basic principles of using LC (Revolution as it was then), until I finally 
> picked apart some sample stacks such as the calculator etc., then a few 
> things started to fall in to place.
>
> After that I looked for stacks that had a similar use or techniques to the 
> project I wanted to build (I still do to an extent), to find ideas and 
> learn about how LC works in ways that I maybe don't know or understand.
>
> My biggest frustration at the time was the disjointed documentation and 
> lack of structured tutorials, many people have also made the same comments 
> over the years. I feel the tutorials especially have improved and the 
> documentation is improving slowly.
>
> Thinking back to when I discovered that I needed an anchor window (or 
> "splash" screen), again I had to do more research to find out what was 
> needed until I eventually understood the reasons and principles behind 
> this process. Maybe this could be addressed with a good, well structured 
> "My First Application" tutorial that ships with each new user download, or 
> a package that's easily visible and readily available for new users to 
> download. Currently there is just a free mobile template that tries to 
> entice users to download the community version.
>
> I'm sure there are enough teachers and ex-teachers on this list that could 
> maybe help with this. A well structured tutorial can help to guide the new 
> user with the right techniques from the start.
>
> Moving forward from the anchor window (or "splash" screen), I also feel a 
> series of basic project templates (or starting points) could be useful, 
> not as complex as the GLX framework, but something that already has an 
> anchor window, preferences, menu bar and a few basic (commented) scripts 
> for printing, saving etc.
>
> Obviously these templates would be different for desktop, mobile or 
> tablet, but starting from a template rather than a single empty stack 
> would eventually help to guide the new user towards a better understanding 
> of the techniques needed for each platform.
>
> Paul
>
>
> On 2014-08-15, at 7:13 AM, Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com> 
> wrote:
>
>> One of the most frequent frustrations new users have with LiveCode is the 
>> moment they realize the standalone they've built can't save changes to 
>> its stacks.
>>
>> Often this happens very late in the process, just after building the 
>> standalone to test out the work they've been doing, and suddenly 
>> everything that worked so well in the IDE stops working, with no readily 
>> discernible cause.
>>
>> So they come into the forums or this list, and folks mention everything 
>> from refactoring their work to use an anchor window (or "splash" screen) 
>> pattern, or completely rewrite everything to use an external text file or 
>> database or what have you.
>>
>> The LiveCode User Guide's section on building standalones includes a bold 
>> purple callout box explaining this (p 299), but it's a testament to the 
>> usability of LiveCode that apparently a great many people can use it 
>> productively for many weeks without ever cracking the User Guide.
>>
>> Clearly something more is needed.  What should that be?
>>
>> Putting a note in the Standalone Builder might help, but if they've 
>> gotten that far it's too late, they probably have to start rewriting 
>> things.
>>
>> How can we help users anticipate IN ADVANCE that no OS will allow their 
>> executable to write to itself, so they can write useful things from the 
>> very start?
>>
>> -- 
>> Richard Gaskin
>> Fourth World Systems
>> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>> ____________________________________________________________________
>> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com
>>
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