Handling of final delimter (was Re: "this me"?)

[Mike Kerner]

I know I'm stuck with it, but I wish there was a preference that I could
tick.  Sometimes I even wish I was actually good at C so I could take the
source and fix it.

No, wait.  Maybe I can fund forking it just for the sake of fixing that one
thing.


On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 6:39 PM, Richard Gaskin
<ambassador at fourthworld.com>wrote:

> That was some damn fine writing, my friend.
>
> There's too much code floating around for the delimiter behavior to
> change, but your most excellent post earned you a dinner next time you're
> in LA, or at RevLive in San Diego next year.  It would be my pleasure.
>
> Yep, xTalk is sometimes funky, like the rest of the imperfect world in
> which it was born.
>
> But like any language, it's the community that makes a language great -
> and I'm glad you're in this one.
>
>
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World
>  LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
>  Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com
>  Follow me on Twitter:  http://twitter.com/**FourthWorldSys<http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys>
>
>
> Mike Kerner wrote:
>
>  We also had this debate on several bug reports at quality.runrev.com, so
>> you will find much of this hashed out over there, over several bug
>> reports.  Excuse me while I wax extemporaneously for a moment.
>>
>>
>> My fellow LiveCoders, I implore you, to reach within your souls and ask
>> yourselves, are not all commas created equal?  Is a naked comma on front
>> of
>> a list somehow more important than the lowly little one on the back?  Are
>> you so jaded by the unwashed masses of C# hackers trying to convince you
>> that if your language doesn't have a ++ operator it isn't worthy?  No!  It
>> is a sophisticated, verbose, beautiful and easy-to-read language that will
>> not allow such abominations as "this me" to exist without a fight.  It is
>> a
>> language that has survived almost thirty years and has maintained that
>> pure, amazing quality that is lacking from almost every other language
>> that
>> has evolved over that time - it is not a write-only language.  It wants to
>> be read.  it wants to be updated and modernized.  It doesn't require
>> anywhere near the number of comments or hacks or tweaks, because so much
>> of
>> it is self-explanatory.
>>
>> In light of that, I say to you that it is a language that should not count
>> an empty item on the front of a list while ignoring the one in the back.
>> We are not those people.  We are better than that.  We are not so steeped
>> in tradition and the foibles of those who came before us that we leave
>> them
>> alone like they are sacred, because the code they wrote on their
>> black-and-white Mac Pluses, when HyperCard came on a stack of 3-1/2"
>> disks,
>> is somehow more important than the code we write now.
>>
>> If someone brand new comes to this list - someone who has never used
>> LiveCode, or Runtime Revolution, or SuperCard, or HyperCard or any of the
>> other children or grandchildren of Bill Adkinson - if someone brand new,
>> who does not value legacy over sanctimony comes to this list, and you
>> explain to them what a container is, what empty is, what an itemDelimiter
>> is, and how these tools laugh in the face of type declarations, and show
>> them ",a", and ask them "How many items does that string contain?", what
>> would they say?  If after they answer, and you show them "a," and ask them
>> the same question, what would they answer then?
>>
>> Why is it that we treat the items in our lists like they are schleps in a
>> queue to throw down their hard-earned Benjamins for a Taylor Swift
>> concert?  Do we not believe in equality?  Do we really believe that "a,"
>> and ",a" are different?  No.  Today I say to you that every item was
>> created equal - even the last one.  Our past is imperfect, but our future
>> can be.  Why is it that an empty item anywhere in a list matters, unless
>> it
>> is at the end?  It does matter.  It is significant.  It must be counted.
>>
>> For my part, I frequently run into this issue when I am working with
>> databases and LiveCode.  "SELECT name, address1, address2" is one example
>> where the developer is begging for trouble, because the last item may very
>> well be empty, and therefore not worthy of counting.  Yet that is not
>> nearly as horrible as what would happen if I were to INSERT or UPDATE
>> using
>> a list, either from a dataGrid or a container.  The errors returned are an
>> open sore that remind you that not all items are created equal.  Not all
>> items are significant.  Not all items deserved to be counted.
>>
>> If we are to continue with this deep, age-old injustice, then I say to you
>> that the Scots must fix every other command that might somehow be affected
>> by a blank lasty, and ensure that we are not reminded that trailing blank
>> items even exist.  The database functions, when faced with "SELECT name,
>> address1, address2" should return an extra comma on the end of the results
>> when address2 is blank, because even though they do not want to face an
>> empty last item, I must be on the watch for them, lest the "INSERT" that
>> follows breaks my app and leaves me to gnash my teeth on the bitter taste
>> of being so close, and yet so far.
>>
>>
>> So, in closing, I simply ask you to say it with me now:
>>
>> "Every comma is significant, even the last one."
>>
>> --
>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
>> On the second day, God created the oceans.
>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>>    and did a little diving.
>> And God said, "This is good."
>>
>
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode<http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode>
>



-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."