The Disappearing Desktop - It's Real This Time

[Trevor DeVore]

Hi Dan,

On Nov 10, 2005, at 9:50 AM, Dan Shafer wrote:
> Once again, your view is limited to what now is rather than to what  
> can and will emerge. Software is an ecosystem. Today, if you took  
> your blogging tool and made an AJAX version, you might well see  
> yourself being forced to create a massive and expensive network/ 
> server infrastructure. But you might not. Mirrored sites, a mesh of  
> cooperative servers run by a third party supplier, rented space on  
> a large server farm with on-demand capacity...there are dozens of  
> possible solutions to the problem.

I'm not sure what value all of this rented server space and  
infrastructure add in the example Andre provided.  The only reason he  
would need as server is to download updates from within the program.   
Does the server really need to be involved beyond this?  It just  
seems that in this case you are using a steam roller to kill an ant.

Now, services like Basecamp <www.basecamphq.com> really profit from  
this sort of design.  My company uses it for project management  
internally and externally.  It is very easy for us to give clients  
access to the service so they can manage their projects with us.   
There is nothing to download and it is a nice use of AJAX.

> Server-side Rev componentry to support AJAX would be another great  
> opportunity.

Dan, I would be interested in knowing a little more about how you  
would like Revolution to behave differently or how it could be  
improved here?

AJAX isn't using any new technologies.  They are just using them in a  
certain way.  Revolution already supports XML so we can make requests  
to the server side logic of an AJAX application.  Rev doesn't refresh  
the screen every time a request is made to the server so we already  
have that benefit.  So I think Revolution can already play in this  
market.  You do have to download Revolution apps which is appropriate  
in some cases and in others this might not be desirable.  Project  
requirements and target customers will dictate what needs to be done  
here.

I've already created apps in Rev that interface with a web  
application using XML-RPC so besides having to download the software  
(which wasn't a drawback at all for my project) what benefits does  
AJAX provide?

> There are several such large gems lying on the ground waiting for  
> someone to pick them up and run with them. This stuff is in its  
> infancy. An evolutionary shift in infrastructure is needed. Before  
> its adoption by MS and Sun and other Big Players, that kind of  
> change would have been difficult if not unthinkable. Their entrance  
> into the marketplace makes it inevitable at the same time as it  
> accelerates the day of its ubiquity.

MS and Sun entering the market definitely gives it some legs and will  
evolve the principles behind AJAX, but I don't think you can say that  
the method these companies choose for deploying apps based on these  
principles will be the only method used.

> All of the arguments that have been advanced here to demonstrate  
> why I'm wrong are based on today's reality and even then I don't  
> agree with most of them because their viewpoint is necessarily  
> limited to the experience of the individual expressing them. But if  
> we raise our eyes up to the horizon and look at what can and may  
> well happen to facilitate this new wave in software, I think we can  
> -- and I certainly do -- conclude that there is not a single  
> insurmountable problem out there.

If specialized browsers do evolve I would imagine that they would  
make the developers life easier by giving access to system controls  
such as native buttons, fields, etc.  It would probably also give you  
a standard means of programming that is either javascript or uses the  
ECMA 262 standard.  Some variant of CSS would probably be used as  
well for applying styles to text, etc.  Perhaps that is how they  
would handle positioning as well.  I don't know.  Really all they  
would be doing is providing a standard development environment that  
had native controls and didn't rely on the support for DHTML and CSS  
built into browsers.  IMO this is functionality that Rev supports now.

Now, can Rev evolve and find niches in this evolving market?  Most  
likely.  I'm just happy that we have this functionality now rather  
than later.

This is a very interesting discussion you've started Dan.  It is good  
to look at these issues and find out where Rev fits in relative to it  
all.


-- 
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
trevor at mangomultimedia.com