LC Roadmap

Sun Feb 14 11:02:31 EST 2021

I don't want any headaches, but as I develop on Macintosh and Linux B4X 
is no good.

On 14.02.21 17:29, e.beugelaar--- via use-livecode wrote:
> https://www.b4x.com if u dont want headaches.
>
> Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/ghei36>
>
> ________________________________
> From: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> on behalf of Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2021 11:31:47 AM
> To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Cc: Curry Kenworthy <curry at pair.com>
> Subject: Re: LC Roadmap
>
>
> JeeJeeStudio:
>
>   > I like Livecode a lot, but it has it's limitations,
>   > lot of bugs are not solved.
>
> True. Would be more accurate with "yet" added; solving bugs is ongoing!
> We could also say that many bugs HAVE been solved. Moderate progress.
> (I know, having been on the front lines of the bug-reporting battle.)
>
> I attribute bug density to dev strategy during the "Great Refactoring."
> Good: Kickstarter project threw money/man-hours at LC to achieve a lot.
> Bad: Code quality was mediocre; lots of bugs introduced at that time.
> (We are STILL finding and reporting LC 7 and 8 bugs.)
>
> Problem: Digging out from under myriad bugs takes big money/man-hours.
> Meanwhile: Platforms, especially Apple and Mobile, are moving targets.
>
> Traditional solution: Use a new campaign, like FM, for cashflow.
> Underlying philosophy: Quality = energy/money/time.
> Potential weakness: History could repeat itself. New code quality??
>
> My proposed solution: Decrease net bugs with more careful coding.
> Underlying philosophy: New code should be good code. (Almost zero-sum.)
> Potential weakness: Too late for the Refactoring; only useful from now.
>
>   > Livecode is great! Don't misunderstand and it learns a lot of
>   > people to program. But it runs behind future facts.
>
> Some truth there too, but it misses a (gigantic) point. In fact, two:
>
> A. A good IDE is not ONLY about features, bugs, and platforms.
> B. LC's benefit is not ONLY about being easy to learn. (When it is.)
>
> If that's the only reason you're here, you don't understand LC!
>
> And you're not the only one. Even those at the top have missed it.
> Raney failed to see it: He considered MC a stepping stone to C.
> LC Ltd also missed part of it: many unique benefits under-promoted.
> And the way some features are added CONTRADICTS the LC paradigm.
>
> LiveCode - and the legacy of HyperCard - is not Just Another IDE.
> People have usually failed miserably at explaining the magic.
> ("Easy English-like language?" Way too vague! Also missing the point.)
> Too few good analyses, too much parroting weak/transient slogans.
>
> I intend to do a bit myself in that area soon, explaining what HC/LC is.
> (I had health/energy problems, thus some detractors, but they'll see!)
> The unique strengths of LC paradigm -yes, paradigm- deserve attention.
> That's why I'm making it a point to be more active on this list.
>
> That paradigm is why many of us are here: not just a handy-dandy tool.
> It's a worldview of how to code - which should be updated not discarded.
> This paradigm has extreme value; likely more than even LC Ltd realizes.
> That's why I'm making it a point to be more active on this list!
>
> Growing the audience again requires understanding/promoting that value.
> You can't just swap in any XYZ tool/language for LC. It ain't the same!
> Nor is success ONLY about winning the feature and platform arms race.
> That, but so much more. Paradigm is key. It has been neglected too long.
>
> We must MAKE THE CASE for LC. Some have tried (thanks!) but not enough.
> I feel paradigm is equally important to explain to LC Ltd, as to users.
>
>   > HTML5 is a drag in LC, unusable, to play ok, to really use no way..
>
> Not much argument there! Hopefully good things coming.
>
>   > And next to it I'm learning Flutter platform with Dart
>   > as main language, it's free, it's the future
>
> Thanks for sharing that. It looks pretty good.
> However, really the future? Maybe not!
> End of LC? "Hell no!" :D
>
> (At least, if LC Ltd play their hand well.)
>
> Again, there's #1. Paradigm - more on that soon, when I have time.
> But also several other factors in play:
>
> 2. Current and future tech changes; you ain't seen nothing yet!
> 3. Mega corp competition; Apple & others will frequently reinvent.
> 4. Tech giant control; Silicon Valley oversteps, people will push back.
> 5. Corporations are good at innovation, also good at screwing up.
>
> The control factor might bite Google and Apple soon:
> should I build there, when Powers That Be can pull the plug anytime?
> Increasingly, the big guys don't follow their own rules; it's arbitrary.
>
> Tip: they just love control, whether visual fashion trends or ideology.
> What they encourage one year may become a "sin" the next. (Hi, Apple!)
> Very often it's simply dollars and cents; more control means more fees.
>
> Meanwhile, you're at the mercy of their tech whims.
> Whatever they think should be the new trend, you must do.
> Modern corporate strategy is to reinvent for profit; relentless change.
>
> Factor #5 is also big for me. Remember how Google would "fix" search?
> They "fixed" it alright! They killed it; try searching a non-trend.
>
> So do I want to leap into Google's IDE?
>
> Trust them to "fix" software development? To decide what I should do?
> To reinvent every 5 minutes if the corporate bottom line demands it?
> To see the present and the future more clearly than I do myself?
> Bow to their proverbial calf and kiss their toes since they're big?
>
> So incredibly tempting...(not really)...no thanks! :)
> I gave them a chance to improve the Internet, and they maimed it.
> With that much money and men, the only explanation is being clueless!
> Thus there's no chance in Hell that I'd ever trust them to be my IDE.
>
> Nor would that in any way replace the special paradigm we enjoy here.
>
> I'm one of the few who are all-in for LC:
> 100% specialized in this IDE/language. And loving it!!!
> (Except the problems we've discussed here; but I've adjusted tactics.)
>
> I believe LC will grow, if they play their cards right.
> They were dealt a fabulous hand! I'll help on the paradigm when I can.
> The colossal failure to explain LC's strengths has been a roadblock.
>
> LiveCode (owing much to its heritage) is a fantastic product.
> It's not Yet Another language/tool that can be swapped out easily.
> That may require deeper understanding to realize. We can work on that.
> There are problems, but things are actually pretty good right now!
> (With GOOD tactics. And some woes due to Apple/industry $$$ strategy.)
>
> Richmond:
>
>   > because I don't want to be jumped all over again [...]
>   > I'm NOT stating what I think.
>   > Love. kisses, and other things,
>
> I can only speak for me. (I'm independent, not a thought herd groupie.)
> But I must say that I enjoy your posts MUCH more than most!
>
> You really have a way of bringing the conversation to life. That helps.
> Never a dull moment or dull phrase, and you have some good insights too.
>
> So keep at it - sometimes criticism means you're doing something right!
> If people jump on you, they may be hoping for a trampoline effect.
> But you know trampolines: fun, but one wrong twist = a bad bruise.
> So don't give up. I'm a fan; hope you keep making interesting posts!
>
> Worth repeating:
>
> LiveCode (and HyperCard's heritage) is a fantastic product.
> It's a worldview of how to code - which should be updated not discarded.
> Even those at the top have missed parts of paradigm and unique benefits.
> Things are pretty good right now, if you have adapted GOOD tactics!
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Curry Kenworthy
>
> Custom Software Development
> "Better Methods, Better Results"
> LiveCode Training and Consulting
> http://livecodeconsulting.com/
>
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