Moving object out of a group

[doc hawk]

Mark mentioned,
> 
> The only way I can ever do something like this is with the messagebox command line.

There appears to be something generally wrong when trying to manipulate the layers of objects when groups are involved.  I think this goes back (at least) to version 5.

The only consistent way I have found to put something between others is to cut and paste *all* items of higher layer number than you want it to land at, and paste them back  (which would be a problem for shared groups!)