Cross Platform Font Layout - current workarounds

Tue Aug 25 09:57:18 EDT 2020

Hi Mike

I agree. But if you are providing the identical, Paid for font (and those things aren’t cheap to a tv  programme maker) then you would expect them to show up in the same place in the text field from one platform to another. I just don’t get that it’s been 15 years and they still can’t get this right. 

I’ve been forced to go through all of the fields and write code for each one of them to reposition them. Some I can ‘get away with. But where they need to appear central to a graphic (which there are a hundred of) it stands out badly and the customer, of course, notices as in my example pictures of my OP. 

LC Mark or Kevin, care to respond? I WONT let it lay without one. 

Sean Cole
Pi Digital Productions Ltd

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> On 25 Aug 2020, at 14:45, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> this has always been a problem with multiple development tools, at least
> for as long as I can remember x-platform development tools and WYSIWYG
> being a thing, so Win 95, and MacOS 6 or 7 (uh...7?).  I agree it would be
> great if LC would try harder, since the goal is to make the developer's
> life easier, and if the mantra and the goal is to design it/lay it out/code
> it once, then that should be what you get.
> some development tools have gone so far as to use style sheets, so on one
> platform you have different sizes (or different fonts) to accommodate the
> issues, but i'm not a fan.  there are too many exceptions to the rule, and
> you're always chasing "good enough", which is "good enough", until you rap
> your knuckles on the next exception.
> at least for us, the easiest thing to do has been to size objects for the
> mac, because we have found that on the mac, fonts render slightly larger,
> and therefore wrap or overflow.  then when we port to windoze, things are
> ok.
> 
>> On Tue, Aug 25, 2020 at 9:29 AM Richmond via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Well; let's consider that suggestion:
>> 
>> 1. The Holy Grail was an abstract idea dreamt up by the Knights Templars.
>> 
>> 2. Most people have worked out by the time they are about 35 that
>> perfection is a dangerous illusion.
>> 
>> 3. "Years of hell": Why do you suppose the OP has stuck with LiveCode
>> for the length of time he has if it has been 'hell'?
>> 
>> 4. "find another language that will do exactly what you want" . . .
>> ouch, I hurt my leg falling off the chair with laughter.
>> 
>> 5. Why do I get a "funny feeling" that by calling yourself 'Paul
>> Pystcat' you are an undercover agent pushing Python (a language
>> which I could say one or two "fruity" things about)?
>> 
>> 6. The OP is NOT a fool; that is quite obvious from his previous
>> postings over a number of years, and he would not be
>> posting the sort of thing he posted if he were considering abandonong
>> LiveCode.
>> 
>> 7. Err . . . on the subject of rants and "squishes" . . .
>> 
>>> On 25.08.20 16:11, Paul Pystcat via use-livecode wrote:
>>> I really have to ask…  if you are having such problems that are so
>> insurmountable using LiveCode, then why not just abandon ship…?
>> Seriously.  If this is such a showstopper, why not find another language
>> that will do exactly what you want..?  Don’t waste any more of your time.
>> Do it.  You may find the Holy Grail and all will be well… you can look back
>> on your years of hell with LiveCode and laugh at us that remain.
>>> 
>>>> On Aug 25, 2020, at 6:01 AM, Pi Digital via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Not Fridge, Fork.
>>>> 
>>>> I assume (dangerously) from your reply that you do not have to make
>> real world applications for corporate branded customers. Where design has
>> been done by a branding team with a 12 - 120 page Production guide).
>> Someone like the BBC, Channel 4, NBC, or their subsidiaries. Like Saatchi
>> and Saatchi, Mars, Ford, Pfizer, Virgin, VTech, Bandai.
>>>> 
>>>> My case study this project. Two week turnaround (first week primary
>> development wireframed , second week skin and output for Windows(primary
>> output)/Mac(Backup)). Tv gameshow multiscreen (some split across multiple
>> screens themselves) for live recording screen graphics. 35 cards (or
>> frames, pages, slides, whatever you want to call them) plus video inserts
>> all with live updated content input by a controller on a remote machine (pc
>> or Mac as they see fit on the day) as the show progresses.
>>>> 
>>>> As the platform my POC and his office colleagues was using was a PC it
>> made sense to do development in Windows for output to PC and Mac for studio
>> techs to pick from based on location around the studio (the gallery for
>> controllers, back stage and stage floor). It is arse-umed that how it looks
>> on Windows is how it should look on any other platform we distribute to
>> including the various output sizes (1024x576SD, 960x540HHD, 1920x1080HD,
>> 3840x2160 4k). Everything has to match to the pixel. That’s how branding
>> works. We have no issue with that moving between platforms in editing and
>> graphics platforms, so post production facilities (mine included) could not
>> conceive or perceive that it would be any different in a development
>> environment. Design it in photoshop on a pc and send it to your colleagues
>> working in After Effects on a Mac and send it back to an editor on a PC
>> running Premiere and it looks the same end to end. That is ‘just the way it
>> is’!
>>>> 
>>>> So, after developing at a stupid rate, 12 solid 14-18hr days, we have
>> the finished app layered out (don’t get me back on the layering embargo),
>> animated with text & graphic moves and effects, ready for deployment out to
>> Mac and PC. Tick the boxes in the standalone settings, build and open in
>> their respective platforms.
>>>> 
>>>> Only to find that everything you had laid out perfectly matching on PC
>> is totally screwed on the Mac. Opening up the stack on the Mac, it’s the
>> same thing. Now with only one day to go I am forced to work out the fastest
>> way to realign every text box (anything from 2 - 200 per card) so they
>> match exactly regardless of platform. Like is done automatically on any
>> other software we use.
>>>> 
>>>> That’s ‘real world’ development. Not to mention my current bread and
>> butter job for Porrima which has, to date, 47 substacks, 377 cards, 10,800+
>> text objects and  is now being ported from PC o et to HTML5 by way of a
>> tonne of NON-CODE-ONCE workarounds and layout alterations.
>>>> 
>>>> It’s this kind of BS that keeps me mental, ensures I don’t get too
>> sane. Makes sure you get a good rant out of me every week or month.
>>>> 
>>>> Sean Cole
>>>> Pi Digital
>>>>> That is HowTF  (What do you mean exactly by "How Tin Fridge"?) ;-), I
>> get
>>>>> things done.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Best, Richmond.
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