English Like?

Lagi Pittas iphonelagi at gmail.com
Thu May 25 13:50:33 CEST 2017


OOPS!!

https://vimeo.com/36579366

On 25 May 2017 at 12:33, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Can you post the URL to that video, please?
>
> Richmond.
>
> On 5/25/17 1:13 pm, Lagi Pittas via use-livecode wrote:
>
>> Hi
>>
>> You might want to watch this 1 hour ish video by Bret Victor as you are
>> compiling.
>> I've seen a good few of his talks over the years and read a lot of his
>> stuff.
>>
>> If you think it's too long just got to either 2:30 or 10:30 (that one is
>> mind blowing) but I'd suggest you listen to the whole lecture.
>> This is the Ultimate IDE but his ideas about programming also cover what
>> Mark W.  was saying about not being able to remember the order of
>> parameters. That was in a different talk or on his website - i'll try and
>> dig it out.
>>
>> Comments?
>>
>> Regards Lagi
>>
>> On 25 May 2017 at 09:10, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>> On 2017-05-24 23:47, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote:
>>>
>>> On 05/24/2017 08:03 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Syntax is an emotive issue (I could beat Python to death with some of
>>>> the
>>>>
>>>>> decisions they have made about syntax - but yet I still use it and
>>>>> slightly
>>>>> enjoy doing so for the purposes I use it for) - but it is not the
>>>>> be-all-and-end-all.
>>>>>
>>>>> I could say the same for any of the computer languages I use.
>>>>
>>>> Very true.
>>>
>>> Of course, the thing here is that (in general) we have more control over
>>> the grammar and semantics of *programming languages* with constraints of
>>> course...
>>>
>>> In a new language, we have complete control so (in theory) it should be
>>> possible to be unambiguous, consistent and intuitive as far as is
>>> possible... Assuming that one has 100% foresight and knows everything at
>>> the point of design. Failing that, one just does not add features until
>>> one
>>> is sure that they 'correct' (for some definition of 'correct') cf: switch
>>> in LCB.
>>>
>>> In an existing language, we have significant constraints with regards
>>> backwards-compatibility and consistency to what is already there. In many
>>> cases, inconsistencies or un-intuitive is actually what you might call 'a
>>> lack of abstraction of a pattern' - an idea has been implemented for
>>> specific cases, but is actually an instance of a more general abstraction
>>> underneath. Of course in other cases, they come about because the remit
>>> of
>>> things that were considered when they were added was not wide enough and
>>> friction develops between what you have at the point of implementation,
>>> and
>>> what occurs to you later down the line (in some cases, many many years
>>> down
>>> the line).
>>>
>>> The former generally allows things to evolve in a backwards-compatible
>>> way, but the latter it is a great deal harder - however that's where some
>>> sort of 'language versioning' mechanism (e.g. scriptVersion) can help. Of
>>> course you need the infrastructure for the latter to be able to make
>>> progress on those fronts - something we don't *yet* have in LCS.
>>>
>>> And not just computer languages- the various forms of the irregular
>>>
>>>> verbs for instance...
>>>>
>>>> Old English am had two plural forms: 1. sind/sindon, sie and 2.
>>>> earon/aron. The s- form (also used in the subjunctive) fell from
>>>> English in the early 13c. (though its cousin continues in German sind,
>>>> the 3rd person plural of "to be") and was replaced by forms of be, but
>>>> aron (see are) continued, and as am and be merged it encroached on
>>>> some uses that previously had belonged to be. By the early 1500s it
>>>> had established its place in standard English.
>>>>
>>>> Hehe - I think I understand English's irregular verbs better now :)
>>>
>>> Warmest Regards,
>>>
>>> Mark.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
>>> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps
>>>
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