Players in HTML5 - ETA for Full Functionality?

Dirk prive dirk.cleenwerck at
Fri Feb 26 13:41:28 EST 2016

Ok, since I see that my point was hard to understand, I'll try to make it a
bit more clear.

I would be willing to pay about 300$/year to have a hobby programming tool.
I think that is good money the company could use. I don't expect some pro
features, for instance HTML, iOS,...

The cross platform tool I use for work every day costs 699$/yr and give me
a license I can keep using if I don't renew. It also gives me Web, iOS,
Windows, Mac and Linux. (32 and 64 bit). They have a single desktop version
for 99$/yr, a desktop target edition for 299$/yr, web for 299$/yr and iOS
for 299$/yr. That seems reasonable to me. Their tool is more mature than
LiveCode in my opinion, but as you can see does not support Android.

Since I love keeping up with platforms, I think it's important to also have
knowledge of Android, hence my support for LiveCode.

As you can see from my earlier description, this is not just empty talk.
Ive had a current license since 2007 and paid for quite a few things,
including the Kickstarter.

As a pro developer (but a hobby user of LiveCode) I know how important
income is to a company. 999$ is too much for what I use LiveCode for
though. I can't afford to pay that much/yr to support my hobby of learning
and keeping up with android. I can of course use the community version, but
I think that is a win for me and a loss for the company.

Just like you had  a hard time understanding me, I have a hard time
understanding why the company would not be interested in the money of the
hobby user. They don't have professional needs and don't require
professional support. It's good money for the company.

I responded earlier, because Robert had the same feelings as me. Livecode
is pushing away the hobby programmer. I find that sad.
I grew up with a ZX Spectrum (and just ordered the new Vega) and started as
a hobby programmer. We had enthousiasm and some of us grew into
professional programmers. Even in those days I paid for my tools.

I still hope that a niche can be created for the less demanding hobby
group. Not all of us want to feel like freeloaders.

And yes, I can donate, but a donation does not have the same feel as up to
date license.
I guess it all boils down to how I feel about it. You can't agrue with
Unfortunately my feelings aren't worth 999$/yr.

I hope I expressed it a bit clearer now.
I'm actually surprised there have not been more hobby people to speak up
about this.

Kind regards,
Dirk Cleenwerck

On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 6:31 PM, Richard Gaskin <ambassador at>

> Dirk Cleenwerck wrote:
> > Now the price of Indy will double to 999.
> Everything old is new again:  When I bought by MetaCard license it was
> $995 (and that was in 1998 dollars).
> I'd love it if the price were lower, but having been in the dev tools
> business myself I know it's a tough game:  smart people who demand a lot
> and for good reasons, but given the percentage of people in the gene pool
> inclined to find programming fun (and the subset of those who aren't, as we
> are, already so immersed in a language that switching to another is very
> difficult), the total addressable market isn't very large, at least not
> when compared to consumer software.
> If we were at a point more mature open source projects are, where we had a
> mix of giant corporate funders paying dev team salaries and a large pool of
> ongoing code contributions from the community, overhead would plummet and
> likely licensing fees along with it.
> But in the meantime we are where we are, and for commercial ventures the
> price still favorably compares with many alternatives, and is by far the
> smaller of many expenses needed to run a viable business.
> > The community version is nice and all, but you entirely miss the point
> > that you have hobby people that are willing to pay for a license, and
> > donations that don't give us anything are not an option either.
> I'm not sure I understand, esp. given:
> > PS: according to the GPL if the code is for your use only I don't
> > think you need to publish any source code at all. It's only when your
> > program is released externally that you need to release the source.
> That's true - as a distribution license, its terms apply only to works
> that are distributed.  And even then we're seeing an ever-growing number of
> projects choosing open source licenses in order to diversify and grow the
> code base to accommodate a wider range of use cases than the original
> developer could afford to support alone.
> Personally, I don't believe it's possible in the 21st century for any
> programming language to reach any sort of critical mass without being open
> source.  There are just too many FOSS alternatives; we haven't seen strong
> growth for proprietary languages since the '90s.  The very few that remain
> on the TIOBE list may be holding steady, but only for historical reasons
> unmatchable by any newcomer, and are not experiencing growth.
> LiveCode's dual-licensing seems to offer a good balance of interests,
> supporting serious commercial ventures with a rare scope of platforms and
> (really, check out the rest of the world) level of quality and completeness
> across those platforms that makes development uncommonly productive.  And
> along the way, everyone else who doesn't require a proprietary license can
> enjoy the same engine in a context where they can build and share and
> enhance their work and others' freely in both senses of the word, gratis
> and libre.
> When self-described hobbyists says the price is too high but won't accept
> a price of zero, or voluntarily offering any price they want through
> donations, I'm being earnest when I admit I'm having a hard time
> understanding that.
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World Systems
>  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>  ____________________________________________________________________
>  Ambassador at      
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