Webifying livecode is a real mystery to me

Fri May 25 02:57:52 EDT 2012

What an informative great post, pedagogical and synthetic, to describe things, Andre ! Just want to add some details :

RevServer makes us able to program multi-users cloud enabled web and saas solutions in following the best standards we will ever get to code in avoiding sad proprietary languages, paradigms and systems. 

RevServer expect a serious learning curve to makes us able to become 80% creative / 20% technical in about the solutions we deploy in using it to produce great HTML5/CSS3/Javascript anyware deployable solutions. On the other side, as soon as we master RevServer as the core engine of our creations, it becomes always more and more easy to use what it can outputs to the web browser or as a native or mobile web app.

Take the time to understand how HTML5 and CSS3 parse things is not a long way at all, just a little rebarbative before we get the logical elegance of them. About Javascript, while plain core JS coding can helps to understand the language, it's often interesting to choose a good precoded library, alike JQuery, Prototype or Mootools, and go head with it.

Just to hang up in being as concrete as possible in some practical tools and frameworks i use to make my day work easier :

LCServer, LCDesktop, LCiOS, LCAndroid, HTML5, JQuery libs, CSS3, CSSEdit2 (Mac only), TextMate (Mac only), TextWrangler (Mac only), GraphicConverter (Mac only), SnapNDrag (Mac only), Iconographer (Mac only),  yEd, CyberDuck (Mac only) ...

Test devices :

Windows XP to 7, OSX, iPad 1, iPod Touch, Samsung Galaxy S2 (Android 2.33), Motorola tablet (Android 3), MSIE6+, Safari, Chrome, Firefox ...

Le 25 mai 2012 à 07:02, Andre Garzia a écrit :

> Jim,
> 
> I don't want to sound pessimistic but what I am going to tell is good
> advise on my opinion. Keep in mind it is my opinion only.
> 
> Revlets were never a good option for mass deployment because it is hard to
> get the users to install a plugin. If you were working on some vertical
> market such as education or internal enterprise apps, then you could force
> your users to install the plugin but even so it is not guaranteed.
> 
> The only correct and safe way to be on the web is by using HTML, CSS and
> Javascript. It may sound complicated but it is not. If it was there would
> not be millions of web developers out there. Assembler is complicated,
> parallel programming is complicated, web is easy.
> 
> Learning the web ways is a good amount of work but it is not hard work, it
> is just tedious. All those fancy stuff such as Ruby On Rails, RevServer,
> PHP, they are just generating HTML, CSS and Javascript. Of course they do
> server side processing but that is business logic and not web per se.
> 
> I don't know how much of HTML/CSS/JS you know, so I will give gradual
> advise. The first things are for someone that never saw the web from a
> developer point of view. The stuff after that is for those that already
> know how the web works at a glance and the last section is some advanced
> stuff.
> 
> ====================
> Never Saw HTML Before
> ====================
> 
> Try to join one of Mozilla learning initiatives. Some of their learning
> stuff is targeted at teens but I think we can all handle it.
> 
> First, to get you curious, check out hacksaurus at
> http://www.hackasaurus.org/en-US/ complete their getting started tutorial.
> This will get you to replace some HTML content on the fly. It is fun and
> gets you motivated. Depending on where you are, you may want to join some
> Mozilla Webmaker event, find more about it at
> https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/webmaker/
> 
> If that got you motivated, then you can grab some books that will help you
> get started. HTML has many versions, if you're starting now, you should
> learn HTML5 from the beginning.
> 
> The book "HTML5: The Missing Manual" should give you a basic understanding
> on HTML and a cursory glance at CSS and Javascript:
> http://shop.oreilly.com/product/0636920018001.do they also have "CSS: The
> Missing Manual" available at
> http://shop.oreilly.com/product/9780596802455.do?green=E18B58FD-1201-54EB-B5DF-813E55C008EF&intcmp=af-mybuy-9780596802455.IP
> 
> These are introductory books, I haven't read them but a friend of mine
> really enjoyed them so I am quoting them.
> 
> ====================
> Already understand about
> HTML, CSS, JS
> but don't want to use it
> ====================
> 
> The web is the platform. It is available everywhere and it is not going
> away. Learning how to use it will pay off many times.
> 
> Learn more about the following libraries/frameworks
> JQuery: the most popular javascript library out there at
> http://www.jquery.com
> Enyo JS: A personal favorite at http://www.enyojs.com build web
> applications from Javascript without the need to write HTML and CSS.
> 
> The Pragmatic Bookshelf, O'Reilly, Apress and Packit have great web related
> books. No matter what you choose, don't forget to read "Javascript: The
> Good Parts" by David Crockford, great read.
> 
> ==========
>  Conclusion
> ==========
> 
> With RevServer you can work your business logic at the server end but you
> still need to use web technologies to display your app. Automatic solutions
> that deploy to the web are often inferior than hand crafted code. With just
> a little HTML,CSS and JS you can create beautiful web apps backed by
> RevServer that will be available everywhere the web is which means Desktop
> and Mobile for all OS you can think of.
> 
> I've once built a little stack that would convert a stack to a web version
> of it. It actually worked but the performance was bad and lots of bugs
> could be introduced fairly easy if your stack was not coded wisely. In the
> end, I noticed that I lost more time debugging my stack gizmo than I would
> use to write the HTML stuff in the first place.
> 
> HTML may be boring but CSS and Javascript are great. I wish LiveCode had
> anything similar to CSS. It would solve lots of layout issues and would
> make skinning your app easy. Javascript is a great language with very
> powerful features. It is my second favorite language and I am never tired
> of the new stuff that is coming out for it.
> 
> LiveCode is great and my favorite language. You can use LC to create
> awesome tools to help you code your web app. You can use RevServer to build
> your server side code. No matter what you do, the web can help and enhance
> your software.
> 
> Don't forget to install firebug on your firefox installation it is the best
> web development aid available! ( http://www.getfirebug.com ).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Fri, May 25, 2012 at 1:05 AM, Jim Schaubeck <jimschaubeck at yahoo.com>wrote:
> 
>> So the revlet concept is not getting any more attention and revserver is
>> great if you know 5 other programming languages to get it right.
>> 
>> I invested in livecode because of its web presence (actually it was the
>> sales pitch of web apps that won me over). But I have officially given up
>> on livecodesrevlet support.  Where does a livecode only person go from here
>> if they want to be on the web?
>> 
>> 
>> Where does livecode sit with the web?  Revsever and all of it's simplicity
>> might be the right answer for most guru's on this list but I'm 100%
>> livecode...I don't have time to learn the other 5 languages?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  Jim Schaubeck
>> jimschaubeck at yahoo.com/ 714.321.4499
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> 
> 
> 
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