Making the move...

[Mark Smith]

Marielle, I really don't get how anyone thinks that genuine and  
justified criticism of Revolution is somehow not tolerated on this list.


On 19 Mar 2006, at 22:17, Marelle Lange wrote:

>
> What I have seen on this list is that you just want to get rid of  
> the persons who tell you there is a problem... and keep your  
> problem. I am interested in using the excellent product that  
> revolution is. I am not interested to have to accept to deal with  
> problems like the present ones for the months to come for the  
> priviledge to use it.
>

People do almost nothing other than discuss problems on this list -  
some are problems of comprehension or experience, some are problems  
with the docs, some are bugs...they get discussed quite reasonably,  
whatever they are...but then


>> http://mail.runrev.com/pipermail/use-revolution/2005-December/ 
>> 071769.html
>> Why isn't Rev more popular?
>> Jerry Saperstein runrev at civildiscovery.com
>> Mon Dec 5 20:30:16 CST 2005
>> 	Criticism of Revolution generally apparently is generally
>> disapproved of here. I've seen a number of valid criticisms  
>> dismissed in the
>> same way as yours have been.
>>
>
> And what argument did you use to dismiss her claim... nothing but  
> Innuendo and defamation, something *far too frequent* on this list.
>
>> http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.ide.revolution.user/71131
>> From: Chipp Walters <chipp at ...>
>> Subject: Re: Why isn't Rev more popular?
>> Newsgroups: gmane.comp.ide.revolution.user
>> Date: 2005-12-06 04:59:20 GMT (14 weeks, 5 days, 16 hours and 35  
>> minutes ago)
>> You wouldn't be the Jerry Saperstein of Font Bank fame who was  
>> accussed
>> back in the 90's of stealing clipart intellectual property and  
>> reselling
>> it...would you? If so, how'd that turn out?
>>
>
>
> The fact that you discredited her in this unacceptable ways  
> probably didn't help. She ended up insulting you. I won't insult  
> you. But being in the position Richmond was put or Jerry was put, I  
> understand their reaction. I don't approve it. But I understand how  
> they came to explode. They did it because some not so acceptable  
> means were used to discredit them and there was nothing they could  
> say anymore to have the truth restored. Fortunately for me, it is  
> probably less easy to discredit the person who contributed this to  
> the community:
> http://revolution.widged.com/wiki/tiki-index.php? 
> page=TutorialsTeacherManual
> http://revolution.widged.com/stacks/
> http://codes.widged.com/
>

I just reviewed the Jerry Saperstein thread, and I think the same  
thing I thought at the time : Jerry came on with one of the most  
obvious pieces of transparently provocative trollery I've seen. Her  
assertion was that Revolution was 'unusable for business apps' - a  
term never explained, despite many requests for clarification, and no  
examples of problems she had encountered were ever forthcoming. She  
then insinuated, fairly clearly, that claims made by list members as  
to the fruits of their labours in Revolution were lies. It's not  
surprising she got short shrift.

>
> I am a defender of runrev. And it is BECAUSE I am a defender of  
> runrev that I do take the time to speak out and denounce problems  
> that contribute to keep persons AWAY from this excellent product. I  
> don't know what game you play Chipp, Dan, Richard, but it really  
> looks like you are trying to prevent the members of the non profit  
> community to express their views and describe their needs on this  
> list. Anytime they do, they are discredited.
>

I am a non profit user of Rev...I simply don't understand how Chipp,  
Dan and Richard or anyone else are supposed to be discrediting  
anyone, or preventing anyone from describing their needs.

>
> Dan's email on Ruby was WOW. Very kindly, as usual, he went to  
> check up some very popular resource out there, and came back to  
> tell us that it was not worth checking up. Ruby was *far too  
> complex*, *nothing useful could be done with it*, *revolution could  
> be used the same way Ruby is*. But know that I am *very*  
> uncomfortable with your practices within *this* community, where  
> you too often take advantage of the credulity of the users.
>
"Then I discoverd Ruby on Rails. For me -- and certainly there are
other frameworks out there that others may favor -- no other Web app
development approach comes even close." - Dan Shafer
?????

I'm really in no position to comment on Richmond or Xaviers  
differences with RunRev, so I won't.

Honestly, I'm wondering if you and I are reading the same list!

Baffled,

Mark