What about the quit menuitem in standalone with 2.5?

Kevin Miller kevin at runrev.com
Fri Sep 3 14:48:47 EDT 2004

On 3/9/04 5:49 pm, "Troy Rollins" <troy at rpsystems.net> wrote:

> With all due respect, this is an EXTREMELY frustrating position you are
> taking. Discussion of bugs is not only common on developer lists, it is
> expected. While no one expects the development team to pick up on bugs
> from discussions here, often times it is the end-user introducing some
> issue, or the list members know a workaround, or simply prefer to know
> about such issues before they encounter them. The RunRev stance of
> trying to keep such discussions out of this list will also keep
> professional developers out of this list, since we are quite accustomed
> to open discussion of any usage issues regarding the tools we work
> with. 

Note that our professional developers do have additional access to the
additional improve list resource, which the development team monitors

> Limiting such discussion, and demanding that Bugzilla be the only
> point of entry on these things makes it look like you are trying to
> hide something, and it is also a very low feedback mechanism. It is
> akin to saying, "if you encounter what you think is a bug, put your
> development project on the shelf until we determine if you are right or
> wrong. That could take an indefinite amount of time, during which you
> are out of luck."

Its really the opposite: we're trying to provide the best possible service,
and when people report issues on the list and then don't report them on the
bug system, that doesn't allow us to do that.  I saw this issue and went to
look for it in the database, as I know that we're working on the menu code
right now and wanted to know if this was being looked at.  I couldn't find
the report, and the engineer working on it doesn't constantly monitor this
list so he may not even know about the problem!  If you need to talk about a
workaround sure, its useful to discuss.  But this isn't the right place to
make the report.

> If the intention of this list is to act like a marketing vehicle where
> everyone is happy, and there are no apparent bugs in the software, then
> I think we need another, more reality-based list, aimed at registered
> users of studio or above which is more open to discussion of bugs,
> workarounds and solutions to the inevitable issues that arise in
> professional software development.

There are bugs in our software and there always will be, its way too complex
to expect otherwise.  I'm not trying to stifle the debate or prevent
workarounds.  But I think some people don't realize that we generally take
responsibility (99.9% of the time) when the program actually crashes to
attempt to come up with a fix - at the very least we try to bring up an
execution error dialog if indeed you are doing something wrong, instead of
an actual crash.  And for anyone not familiar with that policy (there have
been a great number of new users on this list recently), they now know that
we consider a "crash" a "clear cut" case.  Now in other cases it can be
really confusing to know if it is a bug or your own code or design, so
discussion here first, possibly also in other places or on Bugzilla are all
fair game and absolutely help everyone to get a handle on something.  But in
a really clear cut case like this, your first port of call should be
Bugzilla.  The URL is at http://support.runrev.com/bugzilla

Kind regards,


Kevin Miller ~ kevin at runrev.com ~ http://www.runrev.com/
Runtime Revolution - User-Centric Development Tools

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