OSX GUI Manipulation?

[bfr at nwlink.com]

> bfr at nwlink.com wrote:
>
>>>Other applications can be manipulated only to the degree that they want
>>>to be.  The mechanism for that is AppleScript.  If a program allows
>>>itself to be modified via AppleScript, you can send AppleScript from Rev
>>>just as you can from other tools.
>>
>> Tain't so.
>>
>> Look at iKey, for instance. It can provide complete scripited control
>> over  the GUI of other apps, independent of their native scriptability.
>
> The post I replied to mentioned only BASIC and FaceSpan, both of which
> use AppleScript for controlling other apps, as does Rev.

You are mistaken.

Facespan, in versions prior to 4.0, had "click as user" and "type as user"
and "do menu" commands. I used those commands, in applications I built and
sold, to control the behavior of unscriptable applications by controlling
them through manipulaton of their GUI.

The programming language of FaceSpan is applescript, and so for those
applications (or those actions) that WERE scriptable, Facespan could in
fact send applescript commands to the applications.

> The introduction of iKey into the discussion is helpful, but it's an
> automation utility and doesn't claim to be a programming environment.

Well I thought I made it quite clear that automating other applications is
the whole point of my question.

> Looking at iKey's command list at <http://www.scriptsoftware.com/ikey/>
> it seems that most, if not all, of what it does can be done via
> AppleScript.

I am not quite sure what you are trying to say here. Yes, iKey can do
exactly what I want. I can create and edit automation task sequences in
iKey's macro language. Then I can use applescript to trigger those stored
macro commands.

> In an earlier post you made reference to the System Events application.
>  If you open that app's dictionary with AppleScript Editor you'll find
> an extensive variety of AppleScriptable goodies.

And if you *actually try* using those commands, you will find out that
they do not work on some applications. If they did, there would be no need
for iKey or Quickeys.  But System Events commands do not work on some
applications. This is a known problem and is discussed on related lists.

> AppleScript is the Apple-sanctioned method for implementing
> inter-process communication.  Rev can run AppleScript.

You are missing the whole point here.

I know very well what applescript can do when communicating with
scriptable applications. It can do what those scriptable apps allow it to
do. But frequently there are actions that are not available in the
dictionary of the target app. In such cases you need to manipulate the app
through its GUI.

So you look for tools that make scripted GUI manipulation possible. Those
tools include iKey and Quickeys; and in pre-X Mac, Facespan. I am trying
to find out if Rev has these features. Apparently it does not.