From merakosp at gmail.com Mon Mar 1 11:37:26 2021 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2021 18:37:26 +0200 Subject: iOS App just shows Splash Screen the quits In-Reply-To: <3E65D684-B21D-4AA9-A2B0-4AE4260F51F7@m-r-d.de> References: <4C6C7439-8308-454C-9645-C73B874F71D7@m-r-d.de> <3E65D684-B21D-4AA9-A2B0-4AE4260F51F7@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: Hello Matthias, Did you find the solution to this? If not, could you file a bug report, and attach (or send to us directly) a sample stack? Kind regards, Panos -- On Tue, 16 Feb 2021 at 19:16, matthias rebbe via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Forgot to mention. I tried with LC 9.6.2 RC 1 & 2 and LC 9.6.1 > - > Matthias Rebbe > Life Is Too Short For Boring Code > > > Am 16.02.2021 um 17:43 schrieb matthias rebbe via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: > > > > Hi, > > > > i am working on an app which ran without problems on iOS14.2 on the iPad > of a customer.. Now the customer updated his iPad to iOS 14.4 and now the > app crashes after showing up the splash screen. > > Even a simple app only shows the splash screen at start and the quits. > > > > I tried to build the app for iOS13 and 12. Both did not work. > > > > Does anyone have an idea what might be wrong? > > > > I am working with macOS 10.14.6 and xCode 11.3. > > > > > > > > > > - > > Matthias Rebbe > > Life Is Too Short For Boring Code > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From harrison at all-auctions.com Mon Mar 1 11:49:18 2021 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2021 11:49:18 -0500 Subject: Parsing properties in Link- and Internet Shortcut files In-Reply-To: <6B9A1D47-A903-4222-9A05-2333F218DD30@m-r-d.de> References: <6B9A1D47-A903-4222-9A05-2333F218DD30@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <57D69F86-1467-4C6D-A9C9-6EB077BE88A7@all-auctions.com> Hi Matthias, I ran into your send email stack with TSNet yesterday while looking for a solution to some of my livecode email problems. After filling in the test fields to send a message and hitting the send button, it told me the message was sent, but upon checking my email it was clear that it never got sent. I know you put that stack together in 2017 so some things have changed since then including macOS. Have you tested the stack recently at all and do you know if it still works? If so, the other possibility is that I have somehow not filled in one of the fields properly. Could you supply a better example using gmail smtp settings or something similar, or update the documentation? Thanks, Rick > On Feb 26, 2021, at 10:26 AM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: > > > > I tried here to find an "empty" .url file, but w/o success. My .url files i have collected over the years on my Windows VM are all textfiles. If you could provide a link to such an empty one, i would be really interested to see that. > > Regarding the .lnk files, which seem to be in a binary form, did you already see this discussion here? > https://stackoverflow.com/questions/397125/reading-the-target-of-a-lnk-file-in-python > > Someone posted a Python script there which is able to read the target of an .lnk file. > May be that is an alternative. > > Matthias > > From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Mon Mar 1 12:08:42 2021 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2021 18:08:42 +0100 Subject: Parsing properties in Link- and Internet Shortcut files In-Reply-To: <6B9A1D47-A903-4222-9A05-2333F218DD30@m-r-d.de> References: <6B9A1D47-A903-4222-9A05-2333F218DD30@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: Hi Matthias, I ran into your send email stack with TSNet yesterday while looking for a solution to some of my livecode email problems. After filling in the test fields to send a message and hitting the send button, it told me the message was sent, but upon checking my email it was clear that it never got sent. I know you put that stack together in 2017 so some things have changed since then including macOS. Have you tested the stack recently at all and do you know if it still works? If so, the other possibility is that I have somehow not filled in one of the fields properly. Could you supply a better example using gmail smtp settings or something similar, or update the documentation? Thanks, Rick > On Feb 26, 2021, at 10:26 AM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: > > > > I tried here to find an "empty" .url file, but w/o success. My .url files i have collected over the years on my Windows VM are all textfiles. If you could provide a link to such an empty one, i would be really interested to see that. > > Regarding the .lnk files, which seem to be in a binary form, did you already see this discussion here? > https://stackoverflow.com/questions/397125/reading-the-target-of-a-lnk-file-in-python > > Someone posted a Python script there which is able to read the target of an .lnk file. > May be that is an alternative. > > Matthias > > _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode - Matthias Rebbe Life Is Too Short For Boring Code From panos.merakos at livecode.com Mon Mar 1 12:15:30 2021 From: panos.merakos at livecode.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2021 19:15:30 +0200 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 256 Message-ID: Hi all, Read about new developments in LiveCode open source and the open source community in today's edition of the "This Week in LiveCode" newsletter! Read issue #256 here: http://bit.ly/3sGecjE This is a weekly newsletter about LiveCode, focussing on what's been going on in and around the open source project. New issues will be released weekly on Mondays. We have a dedicated mailing list that will deliver each issue directly to your e-mail, so you don't miss any! If you have anything you'd like mentioned (a project, a discussion somewhere, an upcoming event) then please get in touch. -- Panagiotis Merakos LiveCode Software Developer Everyone Can Create Apps From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Mon Mar 1 12:38:25 2021 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2021 18:38:25 +0100 Subject: Parsing properties in Link- and Internet Shortcut files In-Reply-To: <57D69F86-1467-4C6D-A9C9-6EB077BE88A7@all-auctions.com> References: <6B9A1D47-A903-4222-9A05-2333F218DD30@m-r-d.de> <57D69F86-1467-4C6D-A9C9-6EB077BE88A7@all-auctions.com> Message-ID: <508D831B-9B1C-43AE-862B-56B520D5C52D@m-r-d.de> Rick, do you mean the stack lcMailAndFtp.livecode? The original stack was created by Charles Warwick, the developer of the tsNet externals. If i remember correctly, i added the FTP part or so and put that modified stack as lcMailAndFtp.livecode online. You could look here for a newer version (1.2) of Charles mail sample stack. https://www.techstrategies.com.au/tsnet-resources/ Although the version 1.2 of the mail stack is more current then the one from my site, it still is a little bit "outdated". There is a new command in LC available called mimeEncodeAsMIMEEmail which would make some of the code in the sample stack obsolete if it would be used. But the sample stack from Techstrategies should still work. If you still have problems you can contact me also directly at matthias (at) m-r-d.de Regards, Matthias > Am 01.03.2021 um 17:49 schrieb Rick Harrison via use-livecode : > > Hi Matthias, > > I ran into your send email stack with TSNet > yesterday while looking for a solution to > some of my livecode email problems. > After filling in the test fields to send a message > and hitting the send button, it told me the > message was sent, but upon checking my > email it was clear that it never got sent. > > I know you put that stack together in 2017 > so some things have changed since then > including macOS. > > Have you tested the stack recently at all > and do you know if it still works? > > If so, the other possibility is that I have > somehow not filled in one of the fields properly. > Could you supply a better example using > gmail smtp settings or something similar, > or update the documentation? > > Thanks, > > Rick > > >> On Feb 26, 2021, at 10:26 AM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: >> >> >> >> I tried here to find an "empty" .url file, but w/o success. My .url files i have collected over the years on my Windows VM are all textfiles. If you could provide a link to such an empty one, i would be really interested to see that. >> >> Regarding the .lnk files, which seem to be in a binary form, did you already see this discussion here? >> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/397125/reading-the-target-of-a-lnk-file-in-python >> >> Someone posted a Python script there which is able to read the target of an .lnk file. >> May be that is an alternative. >> >> Matthias >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode - Matthias Rebbe Life Is Too Short For Boring Code From bduck at mac.com Mon Mar 1 13:29:58 2021 From: bduck at mac.com (Brian K. Duck) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2021 13:29:58 -0500 Subject: xAPI in LiveCode Week #5 References: <2245A9AB-72D2-4E15-95A9-39FFFCD79114@mac.com> Message-ID: <0C95FF39-95CC-4DB6-A6CD-682C72B1DAF0@mac.com> Based on the feedback received last week, we?re scheduled for our second regular meeting: Mar 3, 2021 03:30 PM - 5:30 PM EST Topic: xAPI in LiveCode Week #5 Zoom Meeting, Session #1 Time: Mar 3, 2021 03:30 PM America/Detroit Join Zoom Meeting https://us04web.zoom.us/j/8855545478?pwd=aDJrRmxtcXVLTDNycjhoU3plaDBDQT09 Meeting ID: 885 554 5478 Passcode: 6nUvZN Please block this time on your calendar moving forward. Brian From kee.nethery at elloco.com Mon Mar 1 13:34:38 2021 From: kee.nethery at elloco.com (kee nethery) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2021 10:34:38 -0800 Subject: how do I get geoLocation on a Mac? Message-ID: How do I get latitude & longitude within a macOS LiveCode script? ??? I know iOS has a way to tell you latitude & longitude. It appears that capability is not available on macOS. I know that macOS browsers, with WiFi on and connected, can determine lat/long with a javascript command. At this URL: https://www.w3schools.com/html/html5_geolocation.asp I found this example: I know that macOS can: do > > > I know that macOS can: > do >> >> >> I know that macOS can: >> do And then put the information into a Javascript cookie and then read the cookie value with an LC Server script. I?ll see if I can get that to work. Thanks! Rick > On Mar 20, 2021, at 6:10 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: > > As Livecode Server runs on the server there is no direct command/function in LC Server available for this task. > > But you could use Javascript (document.cookie) in your LC Server script to write the screen resolution into a cookie and read that cookie then with your Livecode Server script. > > > - > Matthias Rebbe > Life Is Too Short For Boring Code From sean at pidigital.co.uk Sun Mar 21 07:11:42 2021 From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Sean Cole (Pi)) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2021 11:11:42 +0000 Subject: numberformat question In-Reply-To: References: <377ebc626c5a0c8f4ac606e0cbdf803d@souslelogo.com> Message-ID: Livecode can handle floating point numbers up to 2^52. But then calculations would have to fit within that range in a floating point perspective too. So, once you add that ninth zero to the end of your divider, it struggles with the calculation and returns, effectively, number out of range. Fractions in FP binary are tremendously complicated. Calculation in it are even more so. https://www.h-schmidt.net/FloatConverter/IEEE754.html On Sat, 20 Mar 2021 at 20:23, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I don't have an answer, other than to say there has been a LOT of > discussion over the years about the limits of number precision in > LiveCode and a number of enhancement requests and 3rd party libraries > that have attempted to provide a framework for high precision math. You > might search the list archives or search the forum on the LC web site > for past discussions about number precision. > > On 3/20/2021 3:06 PM, jbv via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi list, > > I am a bit lost : > > > > set numberformat to ".#########################" > > put -0.0000007347880794884118999 / 1000 > > -- returns -0.0000000007347880794884119 which is ok > > > > put -0.0000007347880794884118999 / 1000000 > > -- returns -0.0000000000007347880794884 -> also ok > > > > put -0.0000007347880794884118999 / 100000000 > > -- returns -0.0000000000000073478807949 -> still ok > > > > put -0.0000007347880794884118999 / 1000000000 > > -- returns 0 -> ????? > > > > Any explanations ? > > Thanks in advance. > > Best, > > jbv > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Pi Digital From jbv at souslelogo.com Sun Mar 21 07:34:59 2021 From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2021 07:34:59 -0400 Subject: numberformat question In-Reply-To: References: <377ebc626c5a0c8f4ac606e0cbdf803d@souslelogo.com> Message-ID: <22f8f5c5cbbfdaed5928cfd7b2b67c72@souslelogo.com> Paul, Sean, Thank you both for your answers, although it doesn't really solve my problem. The most surprising thing is that javascript runs these calculations without problem : (-0.0000007347880794884118999 / 1000000000) returns -7.347880794884119e-16 (-0.0000007347880794884118999 / 1000000000000) returns -7.347880794884119e-19 Best Le 2021-03-21 07:11, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode a ?crit?: > Livecode can handle floating point numbers up to 2^52. But then > calculations would have to fit within that range in a floating point > perspective too. So, once you add that ninth zero to the end of your > divider, it struggles with the calculation and returns, effectively, > number > out of range. > > Fractions in FP binary are tremendously complicated. Calculation in it > are > even more so. > > https://www.h-schmidt.net/FloatConverter/IEEE754.html > > > On Sat, 20 Mar 2021 at 20:23, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> I don't have an answer, other than to say there has been a LOT of >> discussion over the years about the limits of number precision in >> LiveCode and a number of enhancement requests and 3rd party libraries >> that have attempted to provide a framework for high precision math. >> You >> might search the list archives or search the forum on the LC web site >> for past discussions about number precision. >> >> On 3/20/2021 3:06 PM, jbv via use-livecode wrote: >> > Hi list, >> > I am a bit lost : >> > >> > set numberformat to ".#########################" >> > put -0.0000007347880794884118999 / 1000 >> > -- returns -0.0000000007347880794884119 which is ok >> > >> > put -0.0000007347880794884118999 / 1000000 >> > -- returns -0.0000000000007347880794884 -> also ok >> > >> > put -0.0000007347880794884118999 / 100000000 >> > -- returns -0.0000000000000073478807949 -> still ok >> > >> > put -0.0000007347880794884118999 / 1000000000 >> > -- returns 0 -> ????? >> > >> > Any explanations ? >> > Thanks in advance. >> > Best, >> > jbv >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > use-livecode mailing list >> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> > subscription preferences: >> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Sun Mar 21 07:51:35 2021 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2021 12:51:35 +0100 Subject: LC Server - Check for Screen size? In-Reply-To: <2F308879-7BBD-4500-93E8-9EBCDA648062@all-auctions.com> References: <3BD46D36-55C9-4F6D-A7C7-86AEFD9BA3B6@m-r-d.de> <1B6BFC48-94BA-4499-A5E3-B6284B45D395@all-auctions.com> <2F308879-7BBD-4500-93E8-9EBCDA648062@all-auctions.com> Message-ID: <7D4912A7-29F3-4783-8A58-A638C2B03C51@m-r-d.de> Hi Rick, here's a sample with some put commands and comments for better understanding. " -- the cookie does not exists or is empty, so we now executing JS, but -- the following closing tag is mandatory, otherwise the js is not executed ?> " else put "Cookie already there
" end if --now we extract height and width from the var tScreenRes set the itemdelimiter to "," put item 1 of tScreenRes to tWidth put item 2 of tScreenRes to tHeight --from here take action according the detected screenresolution. ?> Note: The above script detects and uses the available screen resolution. Regards, - Matthias Rebbe Life Is Too Short For Boring Code > Am 21.03.2021 um 01:02 schrieb Rick Harrison via use-livecode : > > Hi Matthias, > > So you are thinking something like: > > > > > >

Your Screen:

> >
> > > > > > > And then put the information into a Javascript cookie and then read the cookie value with an LC Server script. > > I?ll see if I can get that to work. > > Thanks! > > Rick > >> On Mar 20, 2021, at 6:10 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: >> >> As Livecode Server runs on the server there is no direct command/function in LC Server available for this task. >> >> But you could use Javascript (document.cookie) in your LC Server script to write the screen resolution into a cookie and read that cookie then with your Livecode Server script. >> >> >> - >> Matthias Rebbe >> Life Is Too Short For Boring Code > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From harrison at all-auctions.com Sun Mar 21 11:14:42 2021 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2021 11:14:42 -0400 Subject: LC Server - Check for Screen size? In-Reply-To: <7D4912A7-29F3-4783-8A58-A638C2B03C51@m-r-d.de> References: <3BD46D36-55C9-4F6D-A7C7-86AEFD9BA3B6@m-r-d.de> <1B6BFC48-94BA-4499-A5E3-B6284B45D395@all-auctions.com> <2F308879-7BBD-4500-93E8-9EBCDA648062@all-auctions.com> <7D4912A7-29F3-4783-8A58-A638C2B03C51@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <8901FB3A-0A34-434D-B79F-BC43A51F2C58@all-auctions.com> Hi Matthias, Thanks! Rick > On Mar 21, 2021, at 7:51 AM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi Rick, > here's a sample with some put commands and comments for better understanding. > -- read Cookie screeres if available > put $_COOKIE["screenres"] into tScreenRes > > if tScreenRes is empty > then > put "cookie not found. we need to write the cookie
" > -- the cookie does not exists or is empty, so we now executing JS, but > -- the following closing tag is mandatory, otherwise the js is not executed > ?> > > put "cookie written
" > else > put "Cookie already there
" > end if > > --now we extract height and width from the var tScreenRes > set the itemdelimiter to "," > put item 1 of tScreenRes to tWidth > put item 2 of tScreenRes to tHeight > > --from here take action according the detected screenresolution. > ?> > > > Note: The above script detects and uses the available screen resolution. > Regards, > > > - > Matthias Rebbe > Life Is Too Short For Boring Code > From bduck at mac.com Sun Mar 21 12:40:27 2021 From: bduck at mac.com (Brian K. Duck) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2021 12:40:27 -0400 Subject: About the project - Team-xapi-in-LiveCode Message-ID: Tom, Sorry for the delayed response. We?ve launched this project in support of the Spring 2021 xAPI Cohort, details on this free 12-week educational activity focused on the Experience API are available at xAPICohort.com, and it?s not too late to signup for the free learning sessions which allows access to our GitHub for project updates and the code repository. The short answer is: there is more information in GitHub on our discussions page. https://github.com/orgs/xapicohort/teams/team-xapi-in-livecode/discussions However - As the team site on GitHub is part of the xAPI Cohort, new members wanting to participate (or just to view the code) must sign up for the xAPI Cohort to gain access to the GitHub and Slack, where you can request access to the GitHub for team-xapi-in-LiveCode. (Sorry this is so convoluted, were just seeing this limitation as we invite members of the use-LiveCode list to join the team GitHub.) Our team page says: team-xapi-in-livecode @xapicohort/team-xapi-in-livecode We?re working with LiveCode developers to bring them into the cohort and will be working actively as a team during Spring 2021 Cohort to bring a LiveCode LRP to life. Initial Goals for #Team-xAPI-in-LiveCode 1. Build a Learning Record Provider (LRP) for use as a baseline in other LiveCode Projects and publish to GitHub 2. Utilize the LiveCode LRP to build example training content: likely using video profile, CMI5 or others. There are weekly updates posted on the discussions page, and currently 4 different LiveCode projects posted in the code / GitHub repository page that document the LiveCode projects that have been posted. Sent from my iPad, Brian From scott at elementarysoftware.com Mon Mar 22 07:29:55 2021 From: scott at elementarysoftware.com (scott at elementarysoftware.com) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2021 04:29:55 -0700 Subject: LC Server - Check for Screen size? In-Reply-To: <7D4912A7-29F3-4783-8A58-A638C2B03C51@m-r-d.de> References: <3BD46D36-55C9-4F6D-A7C7-86AEFD9BA3B6@m-r-d.de> <1B6BFC48-94BA-4499-A5E3-B6284B45D395@all-auctions.com> <2F308879-7BBD-4500-93E8-9EBCDA648062@all-auctions.com> <7D4912A7-29F3-4783-8A58-A638C2B03C51@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: Matthias, thank you so much for the complete solution. I?m such a beginner with LC server (and not even a beginner at JS) that your explanation was what I needed. -- Scott Morrow Elementary Software (Now with 20% less chalk dust!) web https://elementarysoftware.com/ email scott at elementarysoftware.com booth 1-360-734-4701 ------------------------------------------------------ > On Mar 21, 2021, at 4:51 AM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi Rick, > here's a sample with some put commands and comments for better understanding. > -- read Cookie screeres if available > put $_COOKIE["screenres"] into tScreenRes > > if tScreenRes is empty > then > put "cookie not found. we need to write the cookie
" > -- the cookie does not exists or is empty, so we now executing JS, but > -- the following closing tag is mandatory, otherwise the js is not executed > ?> > > put "cookie written
" > else > put "Cookie already there
" > end if > > --now we extract height and width from the var tScreenRes > set the itemdelimiter to "," > put item 1 of tScreenRes to tWidth > put item 2 of tScreenRes to tHeight > > --from here take action according the detected screenresolution. > ?> > > > Note: The above script detects and uses the available screen resolution. > Regards, > > > - > Matthias Rebbe > Life Is Too Short For Boring Code > >> Am 21.03.2021 um 01:02 schrieb Rick Harrison via use-livecode : >> >> Hi Matthias, >> >> So you are thinking something like: >> >> >> >> >> >>

Your Screen:

>> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> And then put the information into a Javascript cookie and then read the cookie value with an LC Server script. >> >> I?ll see if I can get that to work. >> >> Thanks! >> >> Rick >> >>> On Mar 20, 2021, at 6:10 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> As Livecode Server runs on the server there is no direct command/function in LC Server available for this task. >>> >>> But you could use Javascript (document.cookie) in your LC Server script to write the screen resolution into a cookie and read that cookie then with your Livecode Server script. >>> >>> >>> - >>> Matthias Rebbe >>> Life Is Too Short For Boring Code >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From craig at starfirelighting.com Mon Mar 22 09:41:44 2021 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2021 09:41:44 -0400 Subject: numberformat question In-Reply-To: <22f8f5c5cbbfdaed5928cfd7b2b67c72@souslelogo.com> References: <377ebc626c5a0c8f4ac606e0cbdf803d@souslelogo.com> <22f8f5c5cbbfdaed5928cfd7b2b67c72@souslelogo.com> Message-ID: <16131330-288C-4EBC-8FF6-16F2B964B0F9@starfirelighting.com> Check out this thread in the forum: https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=25132&p=130985&hilit=longadd#p130985 Craig > On Mar 21, 2021, at 7:34 AM, jbv via use-livecode wrote: > > Paul, Sean, > > Thank you both for your answers, although it doesn't really solve my problem. > The most surprising thing is that javascript runs these calculations without > problem : > (-0.0000007347880794884118999 / 1000000000) returns -7.347880794884119e-16 > (-0.0000007347880794884118999 / 1000000000000) returns -7.347880794884119e-19 > > Best > > > Le 2021-03-21 07:11, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode a ?crit : >> Livecode can handle floating point numbers up to 2^52. But then >> calculations would have to fit within that range in a floating point >> perspective too. So, once you add that ninth zero to the end of your >> divider, it struggles with the calculation and returns, effectively, number >> out of range. >> Fractions in FP binary are tremendously complicated. Calculation in it are >> even more so. >> https://www.h-schmidt.net/FloatConverter/IEEE754.html >> On Sat, 20 Mar 2021 at 20:23, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> I don't have an answer, other than to say there has been a LOT of >>> discussion over the years about the limits of number precision in >>> LiveCode and a number of enhancement requests and 3rd party libraries >>> that have attempted to provide a framework for high precision math. You >>> might search the list archives or search the forum on the LC web site >>> for past discussions about number precision. >>> On 3/20/2021 3:06 PM, jbv via use-livecode wrote: >>> > Hi list, >>> > I am a bit lost : >>> > >>> > set numberformat to ".#########################" >>> > put -0.0000007347880794884118999 / 1000 >>> > -- returns -0.0000000007347880794884119 which is ok >>> > >>> > put -0.0000007347880794884118999 / 1000000 >>> > -- returns -0.0000000000007347880794884 -> also ok >>> > >>> > put -0.0000007347880794884118999 / 100000000 >>> > -- returns -0.0000000000000073478807949 -> still ok >>> > >>> > put -0.0000007347880794884118999 / 1000000000 >>> > -- returns 0 -> ????? >>> > >>> > Any explanations ? >>> > Thanks in advance. >>> > Best, >>> > jbv >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > use-livecode mailing list >>> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> > subscription preferences: >>> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From williamdesmet at gmail.com Mon Mar 22 11:03:09 2021 From: williamdesmet at gmail.com (William de Smet) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2021 16:03:09 +0100 Subject: What is the easiest way to add another snapshot from the same rect to the same PDF file? Message-ID: Hi there, In an existing iOS app I do this: --- export snapshot from grc "printmarge" to tPDF as PNG put specialFolderPath("documents") & "/file.pdf" into tFilePath set the printPaperOrientation to "portrait" set the printMargins to 36,72,36,72 open printing to PDF tFilePath print this cd from 61,207 to 961,542 close printing ---- What is the easiest and fastest way to add another snapshot from the same rect to the same PDF file? greetings, William From jbv at souslelogo.com Mon Mar 22 12:03:50 2021 From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2021 12:03:50 -0400 Subject: numberformat question In-Reply-To: <16131330-288C-4EBC-8FF6-16F2B964B0F9@starfirelighting.com> References: <377ebc626c5a0c8f4ac606e0cbdf803d@souslelogo.com> <22f8f5c5cbbfdaed5928cfd7b2b67c72@souslelogo.com> <16131330-288C-4EBC-8FF6-16F2B964B0F9@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: <54f90ea1b61fe60da24bb311a05c59d8@souslelogo.com> Hi Craig, Thank you for the link, but it doesn't help much : bigDivide(-0.0000007347880794884118999,1000000000) returns 0 , -0.000001 what I'm actually trying to do is to transpose in LC an algo for solving cubic equations that runs perfectly in javascript. So my solution will finally be to multiply data by 10^6, run the algo, and then divide the results by 10^6 by treating them as strings and moving the dot... It's not really elegant and especially quite slow, as I need to process large amounts of data and am not sure that I'll be able to use LC for that project (which is so far only a prototype). I don't mean to start another endless thread on this topic, but one thing puzzles me though : I understand that LC doesn't use decimal numbers for internal calculations for reasons of speed, but then how come does js perform high precision calculations without any speed issues ? Best Le 2021-03-22 09:41, Craig Newman via use-livecode a ?crit?: > Check out this thread in the forum: > > https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=25132&p=130985&hilit=longadd#p130985 > > > Craig > >> On Mar 21, 2021, at 7:34 AM, jbv via use-livecode >> wrote: >> >> Paul, Sean, >> >> Thank you both for your answers, although it doesn't really solve my >> problem. >> The most surprising thing is that javascript runs these calculations >> without >> problem : >> (-0.0000007347880794884118999 / 1000000000) returns >> -7.347880794884119e-16 >> (-0.0000007347880794884118999 / 1000000000000) returns >> -7.347880794884119e-19 >> >> Best >> >> >> Le 2021-03-21 07:11, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode a ?crit : >>> Livecode can handle floating point numbers up to 2^52. But then >>> calculations would have to fit within that range in a floating point >>> perspective too. So, once you add that ninth zero to the end of your >>> divider, it struggles with the calculation and returns, effectively, >>> number >>> out of range. >>> Fractions in FP binary are tremendously complicated. Calculation in >>> it are >>> even more so. >>> https://www.h-schmidt.net/FloatConverter/IEEE754.html >>> On Sat, 20 Mar 2021 at 20:23, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>> I don't have an answer, other than to say there has been a LOT of >>>> discussion over the years about the limits of number precision in >>>> LiveCode and a number of enhancement requests and 3rd party >>>> libraries >>>> that have attempted to provide a framework for high precision math. >>>> You >>>> might search the list archives or search the forum on the LC web >>>> site >>>> for past discussions about number precision. >>>> On 3/20/2021 3:06 PM, jbv via use-livecode wrote: >>>> > Hi list, >>>> > I am a bit lost : >>>> > >>>> > set numberformat to ".#########################" >>>> > put -0.0000007347880794884118999 / 1000 >>>> > -- returns -0.0000000007347880794884119 which is ok >>>> > >>>> > put -0.0000007347880794884118999 / 1000000 >>>> > -- returns -0.0000000000007347880794884 -> also ok >>>> > >>>> > put -0.0000007347880794884118999 / 100000000 >>>> > -- returns -0.0000000000000073478807949 -> still ok >>>> > >>>> > put -0.0000007347880794884118999 / 1000000000 >>>> > -- returns 0 -> ????? >>>> > >>>> > Any explanations ? >>>> > Thanks in advance. >>>> > Best, >>>> > jbv >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > use-livecode mailing list >>>> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> > subscription preferences: >>>> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jbv at souslelogo.com Mon Mar 22 12:14:08 2021 From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2021 12:14:08 -0400 Subject: numberformat question In-Reply-To: <54f90ea1b61fe60da24bb311a05c59d8@souslelogo.com> References: <377ebc626c5a0c8f4ac606e0cbdf803d@souslelogo.com> <22f8f5c5cbbfdaed5928cfd7b2b67c72@souslelogo.com> <16131330-288C-4EBC-8FF6-16F2B964B0F9@starfirelighting.com> <54f90ea1b61fe60da24bb311a05c59d8@souslelogo.com> Message-ID: Le 2021-03-22 12:03, jbv via use-livecode a ?crit?: > Hi Craig, > > Thank you for the link, but it doesn't help much : > > bigDivide(-0.0000007347880794884118999,1000000000) > returns 0 , -0.000001 > Ooops, I just realized that I forgot to add set numberformat to "0.##############################" at the beginning of bigDivide... now bigDivide(-0.0000007347880794884118999,1000000000) 0 , -0.000000734788079488411899919975 From sundown.pacifier at icloud.com Mon Mar 22 12:14:21 2021 From: sundown.pacifier at icloud.com (John Balgenorth) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2021 09:14:21 -0700 Subject: numberformat question In-Reply-To: <54f90ea1b61fe60da24bb311a05c59d8@souslelogo.com> References: <54f90ea1b61fe60da24bb311a05c59d8@souslelogo.com> Message-ID: You might be able to get the info by running your javascript from a shell command. Here is a link that might be of help; https://stackoverflow.com/questions/12659778/is-it-possible-to-run-javascript-files-from-the-command-line JB > On Mar 22, 2021, at 9:05 AM, jbv via use-livecode wrote: > > ?Hi Craig, > > Thank you for the link, but it doesn't help much : > > bigDivide(-0.0000007347880794884118999,1000000000) > returns 0 , -0.000001 > > what I'm actually trying to do is to transpose in LC > an algo for solving cubic equations that runs perfectly > in javascript. > So my solution will finally be to multiply data by 10^6, > run the algo, and then divide the results by 10^6 by > treating them as strings and moving the dot... > It's not really elegant and especially quite slow, as I > need to process large amounts of data and am not sure > that I'll be able to use LC for that project (which is > so far only a prototype). > > I don't mean to start another endless thread on this topic, > but one thing puzzles me though : I understand that LC doesn't > use decimal numbers for internal calculations for reasons > of speed, but then how come does js perform high precision > calculations without any speed issues ? > > Best > > Le 2021-03-22 09:41, Craig Newman via use-livecode a ?crit : >> Check out this thread in the forum: >> https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=25132&p=130985&hilit=longadd#p130985 >> >> Craig >>>> On Mar 21, 2021, at 7:34 AM, jbv via use-livecode wrote: >>> Paul, Sean, >>> Thank you both for your answers, although it doesn't really solve my problem. >>> The most surprising thing is that javascript runs these calculations without >>> problem : >>> (-0.0000007347880794884118999 / 1000000000) returns -7.347880794884119e-16 >>> (-0.0000007347880794884118999 / 1000000000000) returns -7.347880794884119e-19 >>> Best >>> Le 2021-03-21 07:11, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode a ?crit : >>>> Livecode can handle floating point numbers up to 2^52. But then >>>> calculations would have to fit within that range in a floating point >>>> perspective too. So, once you add that ninth zero to the end of your >>>> divider, it struggles with the calculation and returns, effectively, number >>>> out of range. >>>> Fractions in FP binary are tremendously complicated. Calculation in it are >>>> even more so. >>>> https://www.h-schmidt.net/FloatConverter/IEEE754.html >>>> On Sat, 20 Mar 2021 at 20:23, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode < >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>>> I don't have an answer, other than to say there has been a LOT of >>>>> discussion over the years about the limits of number precision in >>>>> LiveCode and a number of enhancement requests and 3rd party libraries >>>>> that have attempted to provide a framework for high precision math. You >>>>> might search the list archives or search the forum on the LC web site >>>>> for past discussions about number precision. >>>>> On 3/20/2021 3:06 PM, jbv via use-livecode wrote: >>>>> > Hi list, >>>>> > I am a bit lost : >>>>> > >>>>> > set numberformat to ".#########################" >>>>> > put -0.0000007347880794884118999 / 1000 >>>>> > -- returns -0.0000000007347880794884119 which is ok >>>>> > >>>>> > put -0.0000007347880794884118999 / 1000000 >>>>> > -- returns -0.0000000000007347880794884 -> also ok >>>>> > >>>>> > put -0.0000007347880794884118999 / 100000000 >>>>> > -- returns -0.0000000000000073478807949 -> still ok >>>>> > >>>>> > put -0.0000007347880794884118999 / 1000000000 >>>>> > -- returns 0 -> ????? >>>>> > >>>>> > Any explanations ? >>>>> > Thanks in advance. >>>>> > Best, >>>>> > jbv >>>>> > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>> > use-livecode mailing list >>>>> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> > subscription preferences: >>>>> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From sean at pidigital.co.uk Mon Mar 22 12:39:15 2021 From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Sean Cole (Pi)) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2021 16:39:15 +0000 Subject: numberformat question In-Reply-To: References: <54f90ea1b61fe60da24bb311a05c59d8@souslelogo.com> Message-ID: JS should use exactly the same standard as LC https://www.avioconsulting.com/blog/overcoming-javascript-numeric-precision-issues 2^53, same in JS as LC. IEEE 754 Sean On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 at 16:14, John Balgenorth via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > You might be able to get the info by running your javascript > from a shell command. Here is a link that might be of help; > > > https://stackoverflow.com/questions/12659778/is-it-possible-to-run-javascript-files-from-the-command-line > > JB > > > > On Mar 22, 2021, at 9:05 AM, jbv via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > ?Hi Craig, > > > > Thank you for the link, but it doesn't help much : > > > > bigDivide(-0.0000007347880794884118999,1000000000) > > returns 0 , -0.000001 > > > > what I'm actually trying to do is to transpose in LC > > an algo for solving cubic equations that runs perfectly > > in javascript. > > So my solution will finally be to multiply data by 10^6, > > run the algo, and then divide the results by 10^6 by > > treating them as strings and moving the dot... > > It's not really elegant and especially quite slow, as I > > need to process large amounts of data and am not sure > > that I'll be able to use LC for that project (which is > > so far only a prototype). > > > > I don't mean to start another endless thread on this topic, > > but one thing puzzles me though : I understand that LC doesn't > > use decimal numbers for internal calculations for reasons > > of speed, but then how come does js perform high precision > > calculations without any speed issues ? > > > > Best > > > > Le 2021-03-22 09:41, Craig Newman via use-livecode a ?crit : > >> Check out this thread in the forum: > >> > https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=25132&p=130985&hilit=longadd#p130985 > >> < > https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=25132&p=130985&hilit=longadd#p130985 > > > >> Craig > >>>> On Mar 21, 2021, at 7:34 AM, jbv via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >>> Paul, Sean, > >>> Thank you both for your answers, although it doesn't really solve my > problem. > >>> The most surprising thing is that javascript runs these calculations > without > >>> problem : > >>> (-0.0000007347880794884118999 / 1000000000) returns > -7.347880794884119e-16 > >>> (-0.0000007347880794884118999 / 1000000000000) returns > -7.347880794884119e-19 > >>> Best > >>> Le 2021-03-21 07:11, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode a ?crit : > >>>> Livecode can handle floating point numbers up to 2^52. But then > >>>> calculations would have to fit within that range in a floating point > >>>> perspective too. So, once you add that ninth zero to the end of your > >>>> divider, it struggles with the calculation and returns, effectively, > number > >>>> out of range. > >>>> Fractions in FP binary are tremendously complicated. Calculation in > it are > >>>> even more so. > >>>> https://www.h-schmidt.net/FloatConverter/IEEE754.html > >>>> On Sat, 20 Mar 2021 at 20:23, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode < > >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >>>>> I don't have an answer, other than to say there has been a LOT of > >>>>> discussion over the years about the limits of number precision in > >>>>> LiveCode and a number of enhancement requests and 3rd party libraries > >>>>> that have attempted to provide a framework for high precision math. > You > >>>>> might search the list archives or search the forum on the LC web site > >>>>> for past discussions about number precision. > >>>>> On 3/20/2021 3:06 PM, jbv via use-livecode wrote: > >>>>> > Hi list, > >>>>> > I am a bit lost : > >>>>> > > >>>>> > set numberformat to ".#########################" > >>>>> > put -0.0000007347880794884118999 / 1000 > >>>>> > -- returns -0.0000000007347880794884119 which is ok > >>>>> > > >>>>> > put -0.0000007347880794884118999 / 1000000 > >>>>> > -- returns -0.0000000000007347880794884 -> also ok > >>>>> > > >>>>> > put -0.0000007347880794884118999 / 100000000 > >>>>> > -- returns -0.0000000000000073478807949 -> still ok > >>>>> > > >>>>> > put -0.0000007347880794884118999 / 1000000000 > >>>>> > -- returns 0 -> ????? > >>>>> > > >>>>> > Any explanations ? > >>>>> > Thanks in advance. > >>>>> > Best, > >>>>> > jbv > >>>>> > > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>>> > use-livecode mailing list > >>>>> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>>>> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >>>>> > subscription preferences: > >>>>> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> use-livecode mailing list > >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >>>>> subscription preferences: > >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> use-livecode mailing list > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Mon Mar 22 12:56:15 2021 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2021 16:56:15 +0000 Subject: LC Bug: Copying an Image fails In-Reply-To: <370dd4f1-fd43-51ce-d38e-43a144a14e67@pair.com> References: <5066B1DD-AE1A-4A81-9BE7-C1452DEA6A7F@iotecdigital.com> <370dd4f1-fd43-51ce-d38e-43a144a14e67@pair.com> Message-ID: +1 On Mar 19, 2021, at 9:55 PM, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode > wrote: Bob: > MS Office copy operations are notoriously problematic. > Microsoft maintains their own clipboard format, so that when > switching to another product the clipboard must be translated. > Other apps may do the same. > The translation does not always go to plan. Eh ... I think this is a more useful current summary: 1. The Windows blank pasted image bug was about a data stream pointer. Thanks to the LC Team for looking into that; hope it's merged sooner. 2. There's a crash for some copied image data. Not just MS Office. 3. Mac has image copy/paste troubles too. Also not just MS Office. I'll report that soon, and we'll probably see improvement. 4. There are dozens of issues with copied content being converted in LC. I'm crushing many of those with workarounds, so improvement there too! Is copy/paste between apps effortless? No. Do users expect it? Yes. Even with the most popular apps? Of course! There are problems, but also progress.... Best wishes, Curry Kenworthy Custom Software Development From ahsoftware at sonic.net Mon Mar 22 13:00:32 2021 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2021 10:00:32 -0700 Subject: numberformat question In-Reply-To: References: <54f90ea1b61fe60da24bb311a05c59d8@souslelogo.com> Message-ID: <1534206e-a61a-f4fd-fdc2-0d074947791c@sonic.net> On 3/22/21 9:39 AM, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode wrote: > JS should use exactly the same standard as LC > https://www.avioconsulting.com/blog/overcoming-javascript-numeric-precision-issues > > 2^53, same in JS as LC. IEEE 754 Right. To get any more precision you'll have to stringify the calculations, and Craig has already posted a link to MaxV's excellent set of functions for this. Someday maybe we'll get that decimal math library shoehorned into place and then we can look back on these days and laugh. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Mon Mar 22 13:04:41 2021 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2021 17:04:41 +0000 Subject: numberformat question In-Reply-To: <16131330-288C-4EBC-8FF6-16F2B964B0F9@starfirelighting.com> References: <377ebc626c5a0c8f4ac606e0cbdf803d@souslelogo.com> <22f8f5c5cbbfdaed5928cfd7b2b67c72@souslelogo.com> <16131330-288C-4EBC-8FF6-16F2B964B0F9@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: <861181AF-3A1C-446F-BE0E-1A926E11E1FA@iotecdigital.com> The ingenuity of people on this list never ceases to amaze me. Bob S > On Mar 22, 2021, at 6:41 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: > > Check out this thread in the forum: > > https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=25132&p=130985&hilit=longadd#p130985 > > Craig > >> On Mar 21, 2021, at 7:34 AM, jbv via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Paul, Sean, >> >> Thank you both for your answers, although it doesn't really solve my problem. >> The most surprising thing is that javascript runs these calculations without >> problem : >> (-0.0000007347880794884118999 / 1000000000) returns -7.347880794884119e-16 >> (-0.0000007347880794884118999 / 1000000000000) returns -7.347880794884119e-19 >> >> Best >> >> >> Le 2021-03-21 07:11, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode a ?crit : >>> Livecode can handle floating point numbers up to 2^52. But then >>> calculations would have to fit within that range in a floating point >>> perspective too. So, once you add that ninth zero to the end of your >>> divider, it struggles with the calculation and returns, effectively, number >>> out of range. >>> Fractions in FP binary are tremendously complicated. Calculation in it are >>> even more so. >>> https://www.h-schmidt.net/FloatConverter/IEEE754.html >>> On Sat, 20 Mar 2021 at 20:23, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>> I don't have an answer, other than to say there has been a LOT of >>>> discussion over the years about the limits of number precision in >>>> LiveCode and a number of enhancement requests and 3rd party libraries >>>> that have attempted to provide a framework for high precision math. You >>>> might search the list archives or search the forum on the LC web site >>>> for past discussions about number precision. >>>> On 3/20/2021 3:06 PM, jbv via use-livecode wrote: >>>>> Hi list, >>>>> I am a bit lost : >>>>> >>>>> set numberformat to ".#########################" >>>>> put -0.0000007347880794884118999 / 1000 >>>>> -- returns -0.0000000007347880794884119 which is ok >>>>> >>>>> put -0.0000007347880794884118999 / 1000000 >>>>> -- returns -0.0000000000007347880794884 -> also ok >>>>> >>>>> put -0.0000007347880794884118999 / 100000000 >>>>> -- returns -0.0000000000000073478807949 -> still ok >>>>> >>>>> put -0.0000007347880794884118999 / 1000000000 >>>>> -- returns 0 -> ????? >>>>> >>>>> Any explanations ? >>>>> Thanks in advance. >>>>> Best, >>>>> jbv >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jbv at souslelogo.com Mon Mar 22 14:28:31 2021 From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2021 14:28:31 -0400 Subject: numberformat question In-Reply-To: References: <54f90ea1b61fe60da24bb311a05c59d8@souslelogo.com> Message-ID: Le 2021-03-22 12:14, John Balgenorth via use-livecode a ?crit?: > You might be able to get the info by running your javascript > from a shell command. Here is a link that might be of help; > > https://stackoverflow.com/questions/12659778/is-it-possible-to-run-javascript-files-from-the-command-line > Thank you, but if I run javascript, I would prefer to use a browser objet and revBrowserCallScript... BTW, as I haven't used browser controls in a long time, am I forced to use a distant url, or can I point to some html + js stored in my stack as a field or even a variable ? Thanks in advance. From panos.merakos at livecode.com Mon Mar 22 16:28:27 2021 From: panos.merakos at livecode.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2021 22:28:27 +0200 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259 Message-ID: Hi all, Read about new developments in LiveCode open source and the open source community in today's edition of the "This Week in LiveCode" newsletter! Read issue #259 here: http://bit.ly/3tY74Qj This is a weekly newsletter about LiveCode, focussing on what's been going on in and around the open source project. New issues will be released weekly on Mondays. We have a dedicated mailing list that will deliver each issue directly to your e-mail, so you don't miss any! If you have anything you'd like mentioned (a project, a discussion somewhere, an upcoming event) then please get in touch. -- Panagiotis Merakos LiveCode Software Developer Everyone Can Create Apps From andre at andregarzia.com Tue Mar 23 05:50:58 2021 From: andre at andregarzia.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2021 09:50:58 +0000 Subject: XCode 12.4 not working with LiveCode Message-ID: Hi Folks, I have XCode 12.4 here and I don't seem to be able to select it on the LiveCode preferences. It complains about not having the iOS SDK needed but I think it does, or at least it has the correct simulators. Anyone have any clue how to make it work? I'm not running a beta version or anything, this is just the current released version. Best A -- https://www.andregarzia.com Want to support me? Buy me a coffee at https://ko-fi.com/andregarzia From williamdesmet at gmail.com Tue Mar 23 06:03:04 2021 From: williamdesmet at gmail.com (William de Smet) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2021 11:03:04 +0100 Subject: XCode 12.4 not working with LiveCode In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Andr?, I use xcode 12.1 with LC 9.6.2 (rc 3) Greetings, William > Op 23 mrt. 2021 om 10:52 heeft Andre Garzia via use-livecode het volgende geschreven: > > ?Hi Folks, > > I have XCode 12.4 here and I don't seem to be able to select it on the > LiveCode preferences. It complains about not having the iOS SDK needed but > I think it does, or at least it has the correct simulators. > > Anyone have any clue how to make it work? I'm not running a beta version or > anything, this is just the current released version. > > Best > A > > -- > https://www.andregarzia.com > Want to support me? Buy me a coffee at https://ko-fi.com/andregarzia > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From merakosp at gmail.com Tue Mar 23 06:05:04 2021 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2021 12:05:04 +0200 Subject: XCode 12.4 not working with LiveCode In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Andre, Building with Xcode 12.4 is not supported yet - you need to download Xcode 12.1 if you are on MacOS Catalina+. Support for Xcode 12.4 is coming in LC 9.6.3 RC-1 Kind regards, Panos -- On Tue, 23 Mar 2021 at 11:52, Andre Garzia via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hi Folks, > > I have XCode 12.4 here and I don't seem to be able to select it on the > LiveCode preferences. It complains about not having the iOS SDK needed but > I think it does, or at least it has the correct simulators. > > Anyone have any clue how to make it work? I'm not running a beta version or > anything, this is just the current released version. > > Best > A > > -- > https://www.andregarzia.com > Want to support me? Buy me a coffee at https://ko-fi.com/andregarzia > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Tue Mar 23 06:07:44 2021 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2021 11:07:44 +0100 Subject: XCode 12.4 not working with LiveCode In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Andre, according the release notes of LC 9.6.2 RC3 the following Xcode versions are supported Xcode 8.2 on MacOS X 10.11 Xcode 9.2 on MacOS 10.12 (Note: You need to upgrade to 10.12.6) Xcode 10.1 on MacOS 10.13 (Note: You need to upgrade to 10.13.4) Xcode 11.3 on MacOS 10.14 (Note: You need to upgrade to 10.14.4) Xcode 12.1 on MacOS 10.15 (Note: You need to upgrade to 10.15.4) and LC builds against the following iOS versions 10.2 (included in Xcode 8.2) 11.2 (included in Xcode 9.2) 12.1 (included in Xcode 10.1) 13.2 (included in Xcode 11.3) 14.1 (included in Xcode 12.1) If you are using an other LC version then please check the release notes for that version https://downloads.livecode.com Regards, Matthias - Matthias Rebbe Life Is Too Short For Boring Code > Am 23.03.2021 um 10:50 schrieb Andre Garzia via use-livecode : > > Hi Folks, > > I have XCode 12.4 here and I don't seem to be able to select it on the > LiveCode preferences. It complains about not having the iOS SDK needed but > I think it does, or at least it has the correct simulators. > > Anyone have any clue how to make it work? I'm not running a beta version or > anything, this is just the current released version. > > Best > A > > -- > https://www.andregarzia.com > Want to support me? Buy me a coffee at https://ko-fi.com/andregarzia > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From andreas.bergendal at gmail.com Tue Mar 23 07:14:29 2021 From: andreas.bergendal at gmail.com (Andreas Bergendal) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2021 12:14:29 +0100 Subject: numberformat question Message-ID: <348A5F22-B1D1-478D-8817-D5833E575026@gmail.com> A few years back I needed calculation to a precision of 300 decimals. I found a js solution by -hh in the forum, which solved my need: https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=93&t=29018&start=30 It runs in a browser widget, with easy input from and output to LC script. I don?t know the precision limit, but it?s way more than 300 IIRC. Maybe useful here? /Andreas From andre at andregarzia.com Tue Mar 23 10:57:44 2021 From: andre at andregarzia.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2021 14:57:44 +0000 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hey Panos, Thanks for including the message about my new book in the newsletter. Thanks a ton :-) Best A On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 at 20:30, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hi all, > > Read about new developments in LiveCode open source and the open source > community in today's edition of the "This Week in LiveCode" newsletter! > > Read issue #259 here: http://bit.ly/3tY74Qj > > This is a weekly newsletter about LiveCode, focussing on what's been > going on in and around the open source project. New issues will be > released weekly on Mondays. We have a dedicated mailing list that will > deliver each issue directly to your e-mail, so you don't miss any! > > If you have anything you'd like mentioned (a project, a discussion > somewhere, an upcoming event) then please get in touch. > > > > -- > Panagiotis Merakos > LiveCode Software Developer > > Everyone Can Create Apps > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- https://www.andregarzia.com Want to support me? Buy me a coffee at https://ko-fi.com/andregarzia From andre at andregarzia.com Tue Mar 23 11:04:21 2021 From: andre at andregarzia.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2021 15:04:21 +0000 Subject: [ANN] New Book: Development Oriented Development In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Martin, Thanks a ton for the kind words and feedback. Your message makes me quite happy because what you're describing is exactly the kind of experience that I wanted to encourage when I wrote that book. Let us know how your plugin writing goes :-) oh, I'm also interested in feedback for part 2 of that book which is about project-focused tooling, if you have any thoughts about it, I'd be keen to know more. Thanks! A On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 at 15:49, Martin Koob wrote: > Hi Andre > > I am enjoying your new book. It demystifies for me plug-ins and how to > create them. My mystification creates anxiety around venturing into > creating a plugin much less adding existing plugins to my IDE and > configuring them. After reading the first sections of your book that > anxiety is dissipating. > > You advice to look for areas of friction in your workflow really relates > to an experience I had recently. For a new project I had to make lots of > fields with lots of labels and changing the text of a label takes way > longer than it should. Finally, after years of grumbling to myself that > this should be easier I created a handler that I added as a behaviour to a > template label field. Basically it allows you to set the text of a label > by double clicking with the browse tool on a text label field and then > entering the text in an answer dialog. I could then option drag the label > field template and then change its text with a simple double click. As a > bonus I could set it to align left by holding the option + double clicking > the label field. > > It worked ok speeding up that task but it was a handler incorporated in a > specific project. I thought this should be incorporated into the IDE to > really work as I intended but I wasn?t sure how I could do that. I had > thoughts of frontscripts or backscripts or plugins in mind but I did not > know how to work with any of these, and, due to the mystification factor > which leads to anxiety which prevents me from trying new approaches I > didn?t go any further with that. Now after reading up to page 43 of your > book I think that I should be able to create a plugin to add this feature > to mould the IDE. > > Now I am starting the section ?What are your needs?? Well I already have > my need in mind ? a quick and easy way to set label field text. My goal > now is to create a plugin that will accomplish this. Looking forward to > learning how in the rest of your book. > > Martin Koob. > > > Sent from my iPhone after much consternation trying to type with one > finger. > > > On Mar 17, 2021, at 6:02 AM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > Thanks a ton for the kind words my friends :D > > > > In essence, this is a very simple book that is aiming to convey a single > > idea: "you can and should create your own tools". I think that is a > topic > > that we need to explore more. > > > > Cheers > > A > > > > On Wed, 17 Mar 2021 at 01:56, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > >> Hi Andre > >> > >> I had to get this one. The title alone intrigued me. But looking at the > >> contents I know I need it to grow further. I'm looking forward to > getting > >> your insights. I'll start tonight. > >> > >> All the very best > >> Sean > >> Pi > >> > >> > >>> On Tue, 16 Mar 2021 at 14:11, Andre Garzia via use-livecode < > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Hi Friends, > >>>> > >>>> I'm quite happy to announce the initial release of my new LiveCode > >> eBook. > >>>> This is a companion book to the previous "LiveCode Advanced > Application > >>>> Architecture" eBook that dives further into making LiveCode IDE a > >>>> comfortable place for your development workflow. > >>>> > >>>> "Development Oriented Development" is a novel approach to coding with > >>>> LiveCode that prioritizes developer comfort and robustness by > favouring > >>>> treating LiveCode as a mouldable environment. By the end of this book, > >>>> you?ll know how and why to build custom plugins to make your > >> development > >>>> workflow easier, and how bespoke project-specific tools lead to > >> software > >>>> that is easier to maintain. > >>>> > >>>> You can get the new book at: https://payhip.com/b/18eH > >>>> > >>>> I look forward to feedback, suggestions, and requests for more > chapters > >>>> > >>>> Cheers > >>>> Andre > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> https://www.andregarzia.com > >>>> Want to support me? Buy me a coffee at https://ko-fi.com/andregarzia > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> use-livecode mailing list > >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >>>> subscription preferences: > >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >>> > >> -- > >> Pi Digital > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > > > > > > -- > > https://www.andregarzia.com > > Want to support me? Buy me a coffee at https://ko-fi.com/andregarzia > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > -- https://www.andregarzia.com Want to support me? Buy me a coffee at https://ko-fi.com/andregarzia From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Mar 23 11:38:59 2021 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2021 15:38:59 +0000 Subject: [ANN] New Book: Development Oriented Development In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <00BE48F5-B9AE-4FA2-8B07-DA0F147C9746@iotecdigital.com> I have a system whereby I have a popup menu when right-clicking a data grid. In the menu, I can enter the name of a database table to link the data grid to, and another for afterward dropping a label / field combination as a group onto the card which itself is then linked to a column in that table. This makes creating forms based on database columns MUCH easier. In my data grid library selectionChanged goes through each of these linked fields and populates them with the selected data. The groups, labels and fields are automatically named according to the table column at the time of creation. So to your point, thoughtful design and preparation on the front end reaps a harvest of time on the back end. Bob S On Mar 23, 2021, at 8:04 AM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode > wrote: You advice to look for areas of friction in your workflow really relates to an experience I had recently. For a new project I had to make lots of fields with lots of labels and changing the text of a label takes way longer than it should. Finally, after years of grumbling to myself that this should be easier I created a handler that I added as a behaviour to a template label field. Basically it allows you to set the text of a label by double clicking with the browse tool on a text label field and then entering the text in an answer dialog. I could then option drag the label field template and then change its text with a simple double click. As a bonus I could set it to align left by holding the option + double clicking the label field. From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Mar 23 12:59:42 2021 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2021 16:59:42 +0000 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <81B64B3D-3FE7-4A99-BEEB-B8C57AEF5F8D@iotecdigital.com> I popped for the book. I already operate somewhat on this level but I learned something as a teenager when teaching myself to play guitar: There are always gaps in knowledge when a person learns that way. Bob S On Mar 23, 2021, at 7:57 AM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode > wrote: Hey Panos, Thanks for including the message about my new book in the newsletter. Thanks a ton :-) Best A From ahsoftware at sonic.net Tue Mar 23 13:09:38 2021 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2021 10:09:38 -0700 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259 In-Reply-To: <81B64B3D-3FE7-4A99-BEEB-B8C57AEF5F8D@iotecdigital.com> References: <81B64B3D-3FE7-4A99-BEEB-B8C57AEF5F8D@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: On 3/23/21 9:59 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > I popped for the book. I already operate somewhat on this level but I learned something as a teenager when teaching myself to play guitar: There are always gaps in knowledge when a person learns that way. I grabbed the book as well. I always learn things from Andre. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From jbv at souslelogo.com Tue Mar 23 14:32:13 2021 From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2021 14:32:13 -0400 Subject: numberformat question In-Reply-To: <348A5F22-B1D1-478D-8817-D5833E575026@gmail.com> References: <348A5F22-B1D1-478D-8817-D5833E575026@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thank you. I will take a close look at it. Meanwhile I have finetuned my LC script : it returns the same results as the js script, and according to my tests, solves 1000 cubic equations in roughly 0.8 second. Le 2021-03-23 07:14, Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode a ?crit?: > A few years back I needed calculation to a precision of 300 decimals. > I found a js solution by -hh in the forum, which solved my need: > https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=93&t=29018&start=30 > > > It runs in a browser widget, with easy input from and output to LC > script. I don?t know the precision limit, but it?s way more than 300 > IIRC. > > Maybe useful here? > > /Andreas > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jbv at souslelogo.com Tue Mar 23 14:50:42 2021 From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2021 14:50:42 -0400 Subject: A question for LC and Windows 10 experts Message-ID: Hi list, I have a request from a client to sync an accounting software running on a PC under Windows 10 and a database on a remote server. Below is a short description of the solution I have imagined, and I would welcome opinions & critics from other list members, as I'm not really familiar with Win 10. - I will build a small standalone app with LC, that will launch at start up along with Win 10 and will keep running in the background. Let's name it "myApp". - some programmable tasks in the accounting software will create xml files in a local directory when some actions are performed, for instance : entering a new customer or a new order. - every 5 min or so, myApp will check the directory for possible new files, and will send their content to the remote server as parameters of a POST request. If no file is found, the POST request will be sent to the server anyway. - on the server, a script will be triggered and will enter the parameters of the request (the xml data) into the DB, and will return data relative to possible events that happened on the server, if any, in the form of xml. - myApp will write the returned xml data as a file in a directory on the PC, and another programmable task in the software will read the file and import the data. My main concern is the app running constantly in the background. Is it safe ? Is it Win 10 compatible ? Is there anything I miss ? Thanks in advance. jbv From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Tue Mar 23 15:14:48 2021 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2021 20:14:48 +0100 Subject: A question for LC and Windows 10 experts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <044A72F2-6AEA-4E6A-8CA2-04075E59624E@m-r-d.de> Hi jbv, i have several apps running on Windows 10 (and before that on Vista) that run unattended. Not all on the same machine, but up to 3 standalones per machine. Some standalones are running in the background and the repeating tasks are executed using the "send....to ... in .... seconds" and other standalones are executed every x minutes using the Windows 10 Task Scheduler. This both runs here now for years without any significant problem. Another nice tool for running apps at a scheduled time is MacroScheduler from MjtNet (https://www.mjtnet.com). It's not just a Scheduler but also a powerful Macro tool. I am using that tool also for years now. A little bit expensive one could say, but worth every cent. Regards, Matthias - Matthias Rebbe Life Is Too Short For Boring Code > Am 23.03.2021 um 19:50 schrieb jbv via use-livecode : > > Hi list, > I have a request from a client to sync an accounting software > running on a PC under Windows 10 and a database on a remote > server. > Below is a short description of the solution I have imagined, > and I would welcome opinions & critics from other list members, > as I'm not really familiar with Win 10. > > - I will build a small standalone app with LC, that will launch > at start up along with Win 10 and will keep running in the > background. Let's name it "myApp". > > - some programmable tasks in the accounting software will create > xml files in a local directory when some actions are performed, > for instance : entering a new customer or a new order. > > - every 5 min or so, myApp will check the directory for possible > new files, and will send their content to the remote server as > parameters of a POST request. > If no file is found, the POST request will be sent to the server > anyway. > > - on the server, a script will be triggered and will enter the > parameters of the request (the xml data) into the DB, and will > return data relative to possible events that happened on the server, > if any, in the form of xml. > > - myApp will write the returned xml data as a file in a directory > on the PC, and another programmable task in the software will read > the file and import the data. > > My main concern is the app running constantly in the background. > Is it safe ? Is it Win 10 compatible ? Is there anything I miss ? > Thanks in advance. > > jbv > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From tom at makeshyft.com Tue Mar 23 16:34:13 2021 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2021 16:34:13 -0400 Subject: A question for LC and Windows 10 experts In-Reply-To: <044A72F2-6AEA-4E6A-8CA2-04075E59624E@m-r-d.de> References: <044A72F2-6AEA-4E6A-8CA2-04075E59624E@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: I can confirm that as long as your code does not crash, a lc stack will run indefinitely. Even sleep/awake cycles do not disturb it. However, the last time I tried to run a lc stack with the 'windowless' mode... i forget what flag it is ... -ui maybe? I suddenly had full cpu usage on that core, Other than that.....:) You can trust the engine. If you deploy well tested code. From scott at elementarysoftware.com Tue Mar 23 20:06:12 2021 From: scott at elementarysoftware.com (scott at elementarysoftware.com) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2021 17:06:12 -0700 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259 In-Reply-To: References: <81B64B3D-3FE7-4A99-BEEB-B8C57AEF5F8D@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: I finished reading Andre?s book last night. Always happy to read his musings about Livecode development! -- Scott Morrow Elementary Software (Now with 20% less chalk dust!) web https://elementarysoftware.com/ email scott at elementarysoftware.com booth 1-360-734-4701 ------------------------------------------------------ > On Mar 23, 2021, at 10:09 AM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > > On 3/23/21 9:59 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: >> I popped for the book. I already operate somewhat on this level but I learned something as a teenager when teaching myself to play guitar: There are always gaps in knowledge when a person learns that way. > > I grabbed the book as well. > I always learn things from Andre. > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Tue Mar 23 22:32:21 2021 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2021 21:32:21 -0500 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259 In-Reply-To: References: <81B64B3D-3FE7-4A99-BEEB-B8C57AEF5F8D@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <17862136308.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> I read it today too and it was inspiring, which was the whole point really. A couple of the footnotes made me laugh. I already make a lot of my own tools and plugins but I did get some ideas from the book. I immediately set about updating one of my tools and got stuck. So the next question is: how long should you spend making a tool when you could have done it faster the manual way? I got stuck trying to FTPs a file to my server. The lesson I consulted didn't work, and I stopped because figuring out why would have become a whole project. So I'm back to dragging the file to a Fetch shortcut. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On March 23, 2021 7:08:59 PM scott--- via use-livecode wrote: > I finished reading Andre?s book last night. Always happy to read his > musings about Livecode development! > -- > Scott Morrow > > Elementary Software > (Now with 20% less chalk dust!) > web https://elementarysoftware.com/ > email scott at elementarysoftware.com > booth 1-360-734-4701 > ------------------------------------------------------ > >> On Mar 23, 2021, at 10:09 AM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode >> wrote: >> >> On 3/23/21 9:59 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: >>> I popped for the book. I already operate somewhat on this level but I >>> learned something as a teenager when teaching myself to play guitar: There >>> are always gaps in knowledge when a person learns that way. >> >> I grabbed the book as well. >> I always learn things from Andre. >> >> -- >> Mark Wieder >> ahsoftware at gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From scott at elementarysoftware.com Tue Mar 23 23:53:32 2021 From: scott at elementarysoftware.com (scott at elementarysoftware.com) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2021 20:53:32 -0700 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259 In-Reply-To: <17862136308.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <81B64B3D-3FE7-4A99-BEEB-B8C57AEF5F8D@iotecdigital.com> <17862136308.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Jacque, I just followed a lesson to accomplish the same thing. Were you using LibURL or tsNet? I was successful using tsNet but not yet when trying to do it with LibURL. I was hoping to have both methods available so that the stack would also work with the community version when I shared it? At the end of Andre?s book I followed a link to his website and ended up wanting to purchase one of the drip coffee cones he talked about? but not the exploding tea infuser! -- Scott Morrow Elementary Software (Now with 20% less chalk dust!) web https://elementarysoftware.com/ email scott at elementarysoftware.com booth 1-360-734-4701 ------------------------------------------------------ > On Mar 23, 2021, at 7:32 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > > I read it today too and it was inspiring, which was the whole point really. A couple of the footnotes made me laugh. I already make a lot of my own tools and plugins but I did get some ideas from the book. > > I immediately set about updating one of my tools and got stuck. So the next question is: how long should you spend making a tool when you could have done it faster the manual way? > > I got stuck trying to FTPs a file to my server. The lesson I consulted didn't work, and I stopped because figuring out why would have become a whole project. So I'm back to dragging the file to a Fetch shortcut. > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > On March 23, 2021 7:08:59 PM scott--- via use-livecode wrote: > >> I finished reading Andre?s book last night. Always happy to read his musings about Livecode development! >> -- >> Scott Morrow >> >> Elementary Software >> (Now with 20% less chalk dust!) >> web https://elementarysoftware.com/ >> email scott at elementarysoftware.com >> booth 1-360-734-4701 >> ------------------------------------------------------ >> >>> On Mar 23, 2021, at 10:09 AM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> On 3/23/21 9:59 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: >>>> I popped for the book. I already operate somewhat on this level but I learned something as a teenager when teaching myself to play guitar: There are always gaps in knowledge when a person learns that way. >>> >>> I grabbed the book as well. >>> I always learn things from Andre. >>> >>> -- >>> Mark Wieder >>> ahsoftware at gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Wed Mar 24 05:45:52 2021 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2021 10:45:52 +0100 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259 In-Reply-To: <17862136308.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <81B64B3D-3FE7-4A99-BEEB-B8C57AEF5F8D@iotecdigital.com> <17862136308.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <5A75DD4E-EC16-455A-B37A-CB789CD80590@m-r-d.de> Jacque, > Am 24.03.2021 um 03:32 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode : > > I read it today too and it was inspiring, which was the whole point really. A couple of the footnotes made me laugh. I already make a lot of my own tools and plugins but I did get some ideas from the book. > > I immediately set about updating one of my tools and got stuck. > So the next question is: how long should you spend making a tool when you could have done it faster the manual way? > That's a question, that one has to answer for oneself. I for example created a script which does some tasks with the created standalones after their creation. It took some time to get the script working the way i want it to. Before that script i had to do these tasks manually for each created standalone. Sometimes 3 times, because have to projects i create for Win/Mac/Linux and that several times a month. So even if it takes not much time after standalone creation, it takes very much time in a month or a year. So the time it took to create the script was much less than i have to spent to manually do the tasks in future. > I got stuck trying to FTPs a file to my server. The lesson I consulted didn't work, and I stopped because figuring out why would have become a whole project. So I'm back to dragging the file to a Fetch shortcut. If you need some help, contact me privately. I am sure we get it working quickly. ;) Matthias > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > On March 23, 2021 7:08:59 PM scott--- via use-livecode wrote: > >> I finished reading Andre?s book last night. Always happy to read his musings about Livecode development! >> -- >> Scott Morrow >> >> Elementary Software >> (Now with 20% less chalk dust!) >> web https://elementarysoftware.com/ >> email scott at elementarysoftware.com >> booth 1-360-734-4701 >> ------------------------------------------------------ >> >>> On Mar 23, 2021, at 10:09 AM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> On 3/23/21 9:59 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: >>>> I popped for the book. I already operate somewhat on this level but I learned something as a teenager when teaching myself to play guitar: There are always gaps in knowledge when a person learns that way. >>> >>> I grabbed the book as well. >>> I always learn things from Andre. >>> >>> -- >>> Mark Wieder >>> ahsoftware at gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Wed Mar 24 05:53:03 2021 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2021 10:53:03 +0100 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259 In-Reply-To: <5A75DD4E-EC16-455A-B37A-CB789CD80590@m-r-d.de> References: <81B64B3D-3FE7-4A99-BEEB-B8C57AEF5F8D@iotecdigital.com> <17862136308.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <5A75DD4E-EC16-455A-B37A-CB789CD80590@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <6D9F49BB-60EB-441B-8F0D-CADC1CA21D32@m-r-d.de> "Sometimes 3 times, because have to projects i create for Win/Mac/Linux and that several times a month." meant to be Sometimes 3 times, because i have two projects i create for Win/Mac/Linux several times a month and the tasks has to be done for each standalone and platform. - Matthias Rebbe Life Is Too Short For Boring Code > Am 24.03.2021 um 10:45 schrieb matthias rebbe via use-livecode : > > Sometimes 3 times, because have to projects i create for Win/Mac/Linux and that several times a month. From andre at andregarzia.com Wed Mar 24 07:54:22 2021 From: andre at andregarzia.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2021 11:54:22 +0000 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259 In-Reply-To: <6D9F49BB-60EB-441B-8F0D-CADC1CA21D32@m-r-d.de> References: <81B64B3D-3FE7-4A99-BEEB-B8C57AEF5F8D@iotecdigital.com> <17862136308.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <5A75DD4E-EC16-455A-B37A-CB789CD80590@m-r-d.de> <6D9F49BB-60EB-441B-8F0D-CADC1CA21D32@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <98553DFB-9D2E-483A-BAC3-65C7159FCD6A@andregarzia.com> Folks, Thanks a lot for the kind words, it really made my day! <3 Mark, I guarantee that I learned more from you than you from me. Scott, exploding tea infusers are quite dangerous. We managed to get a refund but I?m still terrified of what happened. As for coffee, I?m deep into coffee stuff, if you liked that Hario Switch Dripper shown there, you might also enjoy the Clever Dripper which makes very similar coffee but it costs way less. About 25 bucks if I remember. I just find the Hario Switch Dripper prettier. Thanks a ton for the kind words as well. Jacque, I think you made a good choice in deciding to stop working on your FTPs tool. It is not worthy to devote too much time into a tool that you won?t see much usage. Much easier to create a tool that helps you use Fetch or whatever client you normally use. This is a prime candidate for a stack that uses AppleScript to automate Fetch (or Transmit, my preferred client). Let me tell you that I removed a ton of funny footnotes from the text. Originally the text was much more fun, but I was afraid people wouldn?t like it so I removed most of the jokes and useless-but-flavourful notes. Next time, I?m leaving them in. Matthias, you got it! Thats the exact use case that bespoke tools are made for. Making something that you need to do often repeatable and safe. Bob, oh I never learned to play any musical instrument even though I tried a bunch of them. I?m happy that you?re making good use of the book. So for those that already read it, is there any kind of extra topic or material regarding plugins and bespoke tools that you?d like to see covered? I?m keen to update this book with new chapters but I have no idea what people are looking for. Om om A From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Mar 24 11:19:14 2021 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2021 15:19:14 +0000 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259 In-Reply-To: <17862136308.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <81B64B3D-3FE7-4A99-BEEB-B8C57AEF5F8D@iotecdigital.com> <17862136308.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: The question I always ask myself is, will I ever benefit from this again? Additionally, can anyone else ever benefit from this? Bob S On Mar 23, 2021, at 7:32 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode > wrote: I read it today too and it was inspiring, which was the whole point really. A couple of the footnotes made me laugh. I already make a lot of my own tools and plugins but I did get some ideas from the book. I immediately set about updating one of my tools and got stuck. So the next question is: how long should you spend making a tool when you could have done it faster the manual way? I got stuck trying to FTPs a file to my server. The lesson I consulted didn't work, and I stopped because figuring out why would have become a whole project. So I'm back to dragging the file to a Fetch shortcut. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com From bduck at mac.com Wed Mar 24 11:59:25 2021 From: bduck at mac.com (Brian K. Duck) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2021 11:59:25 -0400 Subject: xAPI in LiveCode Week #8 Zoom Meeting, Session #1 Message-ID: Today?s meeting will begin at 3:30 PM EDT in zoom: Topic: xAPI in LiveCode Week #8 Zoom Meeting, Session #1 Time: Mar 24, 2021 03:30 PM America/Detroit Join Zoom Meeting https://us04web.zoom.us/j/8757225479?pwd=UHRDY0VLQUZGamJxeGxCR1BjVEd2dz09 Meeting ID: 875 722 5479 Passcode: 5xer2f Thanks for your time, Brian From ahsoftware at sonic.net Wed Mar 24 13:11:03 2021 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2021 10:11:03 -0700 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259 In-Reply-To: References: <81B64B3D-3FE7-4A99-BEEB-B8C57AEF5F8D@iotecdigital.com> <17862136308.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <6d2ce5ca-4ada-1749-0236-44d3b7d6e5a3@sonic.net> On 3/24/21 8:19 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > The question I always ask myself is, will I ever benefit from this again? Additionally, can anyone else ever benefit from this? I think there may be other questions in play as well. Will I learn anything from doing this? Will I have fun experimenting with it? Are there more pressing things I need to do instead? etc. Bernd Niggeman has pushed me to start working with the styledText array of fields, and we've been refactoring the glx2 script editor to use this. It's been painful, but along the way we've uncovered some areas where it makes a lot of sense and is much faster than manipulating text in a field, but also found cases where it makes things much harder and/or slows operations down. I can't say that much of what I've been learning is in the category of "things I'll put to use again", and we've put in way more time on this project than we could ever justify for the ROI, but the end result is satisfying, I've found a new bug report to file, and my code just seems happier in general these days. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Mar 24 14:51:54 2021 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2021 13:51:54 -0500 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259 In-Reply-To: <6d2ce5ca-4ada-1749-0236-44d3b7d6e5a3@sonic.net> References: <81B64B3D-3FE7-4A99-BEEB-B8C57AEF5F8D@iotecdigital.com> <17862136308.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <6d2ce5ca-4ada-1749-0236-44d3b7d6e5a3@sonic.net> Message-ID: On 3/24/21 12:11 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > my code just seems happier in general these days. To paraphrase: If code ain't happy, ain't nobody happy.* *For our non-US friends, it's an American dialect thing, originally: "If mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy." And you can believe that my husband throws that at me now and then. ;) -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Mar 24 15:12:27 2021 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2021 14:12:27 -0500 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259 In-Reply-To: References: <81B64B3D-3FE7-4A99-BEEB-B8C57AEF5F8D@iotecdigital.com> <17862136308.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <7eae18cf-ab98-f173-5854-4c30690e0ba2@hyperactivesw.com> On 3/23/21 10:53 PM, scott--- via use-livecode wrote: Scott: I followed the lesson here: My server didn't like it and returned TSNet error 60. Andre: After TSNet failed, I did try to use AppleScript but Fetch put up a dialog that it did not allow AppleScript sent from other apps. And BTW, next time leave in the fun stuff. :) Matthias: I may take you up on your kind offer for assistance. I automated most of the actions a long time ago and I already know how to send via FTP, but in this case I want a secure connection. Bob: this particular plugin won't be of use to anyone else. Andre's book focuses on plugins and scripts that enhance your own private work flow, and that fits exactly with what I do. In fact, I have a plugin of various development handlers that is automatically inserted as a backscript every time LC launches. I'm so used to it that I'm crippled if it isn't there. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Mar 24 15:39:16 2021 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2021 14:39:16 -0500 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259 In-Reply-To: <7eae18cf-ab98-f173-5854-4c30690e0ba2@hyperactivesw.com> References: <81B64B3D-3FE7-4A99-BEEB-B8C57AEF5F8D@iotecdigital.com> <17862136308.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <7eae18cf-ab98-f173-5854-4c30690e0ba2@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <8b30ac04-63f5-a8ca-a1e7-98560c86261a@hyperactivesw.com> On 3/24/21 2:12 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > My server didn't like it and returned TSNet error 60. I fixed it! The issue was that the certificate name didn't match my domain name since I'm on a shared host. I had to set up Fetch to always trust the certificate anyway. As the Wise Wieder said, my code is happier now. So am I. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Wed Mar 24 16:00:36 2021 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2021 21:00:36 +0100 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259 In-Reply-To: <8b30ac04-63f5-a8ca-a1e7-98560c86261a@hyperactivesw.com> References: <81B64B3D-3FE7-4A99-BEEB-B8C57AEF5F8D@iotecdigital.com> <17862136308.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <7eae18cf-ab98-f173-5854-4c30690e0ba2@hyperactivesw.com> <8b30ac04-63f5-a8ca-a1e7-98560c86261a@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <76BE4E71-0937-43B2-8B41-C913980CF568@m-r-d.de> Jacque, tsNET returns the 'standard' curl error codes. I have bookmarked the followingurl to get help, if i got stuck with tsNET and its error code. https://curl.se/libcurl/c/libcurl-errors.html - Matthias Rebbe Life Is Too Short For Boring Code > Am 24.03.2021 um 20:39 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode : > > On 3/24/21 2:12 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >> My server didn't like it and returned TSNet error 60. > > I fixed it! The issue was that the certificate name didn't match my domain name since I'm on a shared host. I had to set up Fetch to always trust the certificate anyway. > > As the Wise Wieder said, my code is happier now. So am I. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Mar 24 16:47:56 2021 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2021 15:47:56 -0500 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259 In-Reply-To: <76BE4E71-0937-43B2-8B41-C913980CF568@m-r-d.de> References: <81B64B3D-3FE7-4A99-BEEB-B8C57AEF5F8D@iotecdigital.com> <17862136308.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <7eae18cf-ab98-f173-5854-4c30690e0ba2@hyperactivesw.com> <8b30ac04-63f5-a8ca-a1e7-98560c86261a@hyperactivesw.com> <76BE4E71-0937-43B2-8B41-C913980CF568@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <13675875-d152-ed30-796d-05f7008f8dd6@hyperactivesw.com> On 3/24/21 3:00 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: > tsNET returns the 'standard' curl error codes. I have bookmarked the followingurl to get help, if i got stuck with tsNET and its error code. > https://curl.se/libcurl/c/libcurl-errors.html Thanks, that will be convenient. TSNet also gave a brief description which clued me to the error. I gave Scott the wrong lesson URL. Scott, the first one was what I used to test (and the one that gave the error) but after I got that working I used this lesson: I had to add "put true into tSettings["use_SSL"]" to the login array in the example and change "put URL("file:"...)" to use "binfile" because I was uploading a stack. Other than that, no changes to the example. I'm curious though. I didn't change the server scheme, it still uses "ftp://" but Fetch is now set to use SSL, it shows a padlock in its listing, and I set "use_SSL" to true in the script. Can I assume it really is a secure connection or do I need to change "ftp" to "FTPs" or something else? Fetch did accept the upload without error. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Wed Mar 24 17:02:56 2021 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2021 22:02:56 +0100 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259 In-Reply-To: <13675875-d152-ed30-796d-05f7008f8dd6@hyperactivesw.com> References: <81B64B3D-3FE7-4A99-BEEB-B8C57AEF5F8D@iotecdigital.com> <17862136308.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <7eae18cf-ab98-f173-5854-4c30690e0ba2@hyperactivesw.com> <8b30ac04-63f5-a8ca-a1e7-98560c86261a@hyperactivesw.com> <76BE4E71-0937-43B2-8B41-C913980CF568@m-r-d.de> <13675875-d152-ed30-796d-05f7008f8dd6@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <0832494C-A560-47FF-A140-4D0A765163E6@m-r-d.de>  - Matthias Rebbe Life Is Too Short For Boring Code > Am 24.03.2021 um 21:47 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode : > > On 3/24/21 3:00 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: >> tsNET returns the 'standard' curl error codes. I have bookmarked the followingurl to get help, if i got stuck with tsNET and its error code. >> https://curl.se/libcurl/c/libcurl-errors.html > > Thanks, that will be convenient. TSNet also gave a brief description which clued me to the error. > > I gave Scott the wrong lesson URL. Scott, the first one was what I used to test (and the one that gave the error) but after I got that working I used this lesson: > > > I had to add "put true into tSettings["use_SSL"]" to the login array in the example and change "put URL("file:"...)" to use "binfile" because I was uploading a stack. Other than that, no changes to the example. > > I'm curious though. I didn't change the server scheme, it still uses "ftp://" but Fetch is now set to use SSL, it shows a padlock in its listing, and I set "use_SSL" to true in the script. Can I assume it really is a secure connection or do I need to change "ftp" to "FTPs" or something else? Fetch did accept the upload without error. > Server scheme use ssl is protocol ftp:// false ftp ftp://. true ftp over SSL explicit ftps:// true ftp over SSL implicit > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From hlowe at me.com Wed Mar 24 17:05:32 2021 From: hlowe at me.com (HENRY LOWE) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2021 14:05:32 -0700 Subject: Problem with Script Editor in LC 9.6.2 (rc3) Message-ID: <0A55AD60-2A80-4382-A1B1-FE7A35A798D7@me.com> Since updating to LC 9.6.2 (rc3) on a 2019 iMac running Mac OS Big Sur 11.2.3 I have been experiencing the following intermittent issue: If I select text in the LC Script Editor and then drag down to select additional text (e.g. I want to select an entire handler), the editor starts to autoscroll and does not stop until it reaches the end of the script text. Nothing I do stops the scrolling and text selection. I am locked out of LC, which is unresponsive. Activity Monitor shows that LC is using 100% of the CPU while in this ?autoscrolling? state. Once the scroll reaches the end of the text in the editor pane, I get control of LC again. This is only happening with a very large script 5900 lines of text (238K). I am in the progress of breaking this script up into a series of smaller scripts. I suspect that this issue is related to the large amount of text in the script but have not seen this before with this script until I updated to LC 9.6.2 (rc3). Can anyone confirm this issue? Also, is there an upper limit to the size of a LC script? Thanks, Henry From sean at pidigital.co.uk Wed Mar 24 17:09:03 2021 From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Pi Digital) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2021 21:09:03 +0000 Subject: Set and get dgData and dgText delay Message-ID: Hi All This has been a bit of a mind bender, mainly because in a test stack it works just fine, but... Has anyone ever had problems with something like this: on myHandle ? ...some code Set the dgData of grp ?myDG? to tDataA Put the dgText of grp ?myDG? into tDataS ? tDataS returns empty ? process tDataS... end myHandle And this: on myHandle ? ...some code Set the dgData of grp ?myDG? to tDataA dispatch ?myHandlePt2? end myHandle on myHandlePt2 Put the dgText of grp ?myDG? into tDataS ? tDataS returns empty ? process tDataS... end myHandlePt2 However, this works: on myHandle ? ...some code Set the dgData of grp ?myDG? to tDataA send ?myHandlePt2? to me in 0 sec end myHandle on myHandlePt2 Put the dgText of grp ?myDG? into tDataS ? tDataS returns empty ? process tDataS... end myHandlePt2 It seemingly doesn?t have anything to do with data length. I?ve tried forcing a refresh of the grid using dispatch refreshList to it but that makes no difference. Stepping through in the debugger allows it to work or setting a breakpoint, but does not when in full run. Both in standalone and ide. A one have any clues why this might not work sometimes? Thanks Sean Cole Pi Digital eMail Ts & Cs From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Mar 24 17:45:07 2021 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2021 14:45:07 -0700 Subject: Problem with Script Editor in LC 9.6.2 (rc3) In-Reply-To: <0A55AD60-2A80-4382-A1B1-FE7A35A798D7@me.com> References: <0A55AD60-2A80-4382-A1B1-FE7A35A798D7@me.com> Message-ID: <7f4ab3b9-7022-6d7f-3421-660f2dc384db@fourthworld.com> Henry Lowe wrote: > If I select text in the LC Script Editor and then drag down to select > additional text (e.g. I want to select an entire handler), the editor > starts to autoscroll and does not stop until it reaches the end of the > script text. Nothing I do stops the scrolling and text selection. I am > locked out of LC, which is unresponsive. Activity Monitor shows that > LC is using 100% of the CPU while in this ?autoscrolling? state. Once > the scroll reaches the end of the text in the editor pane, I get > control of LC again. > > This is only happening with a very large script 5900 lines of text > (238K). I am in the progress of breaking this script up into a series > of smaller scripts. > > I suspect that this issue is related to the large amount of text in > the script but have not seen this before with this script until I > updated to LC 9.6.2 (rc3). > > Can anyone confirm this issue? I have seen similar issues on Ubuntu. I believe it may be related to the complicated way the line number field is kept in sync. The only workaround I've tested is writing my own script editor, thankfully subsidized by a generous soul who commissioned it. It's not yet ready for prime time, though, so I have no immediate solution for LC SE users. > Also, is there an upper limit to the size of a LC script? There should not be, at least within reasonable memory limits. And if there were, it shouldn't be anywhere near as short as 5900 lines. I've been stress-testing my with 20k-line scripts. The LC field object is quite good. Any script editor using it should be quite good too. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From hlowe at me.com Wed Mar 24 17:58:30 2021 From: hlowe at me.com (HENRY LOWE) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2021 14:58:30 -0700 Subject: Problem with Script Editor in LC 9.6.2 (rc3) In-Reply-To: <7f4ab3b9-7022-6d7f-3421-660f2dc384db@fourthworld.com> References: <0A55AD60-2A80-4382-A1B1-FE7A35A798D7@me.com> <7f4ab3b9-7022-6d7f-3421-660f2dc384db@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Thanks Richard. I turned off the line number option and the problem still occurs. I can reproduce this with any script that extend beyond the bottom of the script editor pane. Select the first line of a script and then (holding the mouse button down) continue dragging down to select additional lines until you are reach the last visible line. Continue to drag down to get the script editor to autoscroll and the scrolling now continues automatically until the entire script is selected. Cannot stop the scroll until the entire script is selected. Looks like a new bug to me. Henry > On Mar 24, 2021, at 2:45 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > Henry Lowe wrote: > > > If I select text in the LC Script Editor and then drag down to select > > additional text (e.g. I want to select an entire handler), the editor > > starts to autoscroll and does not stop until it reaches the end of the > > script text. Nothing I do stops the scrolling and text selection. I am > > locked out of LC, which is unresponsive. Activity Monitor shows that > > LC is using 100% of the CPU while in this ?autoscrolling? state. Once > > the scroll reaches the end of the text in the editor pane, I get > > control of LC again. > > > > This is only happening with a very large script 5900 lines of text > > (238K). I am in the progress of breaking this script up into a series > > of smaller scripts. > > > > I suspect that this issue is related to the large amount of text in > > the script but have not seen this before with this script until I > > updated to LC 9.6.2 (rc3). > > > > Can anyone confirm this issue? > > I have seen similar issues on Ubuntu. I believe it may be related to the complicated way the line number field is kept in sync. > > The only workaround I've tested is writing my own script editor, thankfully subsidized by a generous soul who commissioned it. It's not yet ready for prime time, though, so I have no immediate solution for LC SE users. > > > > Also, is there an upper limit to the size of a LC script? > > There should not be, at least within reasonable memory limits. > > And if there were, it shouldn't be anywhere near as short as 5900 lines. I've been stress-testing my with 20k-line scripts. > > The LC field object is quite good. Any script editor using it should be quite good too. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Wed Mar 24 18:17:04 2021 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2021 23:17:04 +0100 Subject: Problem with Script Editor in LC 9.6.2 (rc3) In-Reply-To: References: <0A55AD60-2A80-4382-A1B1-FE7A35A798D7@me.com> <7f4ab3b9-7022-6d7f-3421-660f2dc384db@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Henry, i had a similar problem already with previous LC releases. In my case a 3rd party tool called Popclip was the culprit. Popclip is automatically activated as soon as some text is selected. So when i selected text in the editor some strange things happened, for example the whole text was selected and so on. Fortunately Popclip allows to exclude apps from being monitored by it, so i just had to add Livecode to the list of apps that should be excluded from PopClip actions. Regards, - Matthias Rebbe Life Is Too Short For Boring Code > Am 24.03.2021 um 22:58 schrieb HENRY LOWE via use-livecode : > > Thanks Richard. I turned off the line number option and the problem still occurs. I can reproduce this with any script that extend beyond the bottom of the script editor pane. > > Select the first line of a script and then (holding the mouse button down) continue dragging down to select additional lines until you are reach the last visible line. Continue to drag down to get the script editor to autoscroll and the scrolling now continues automatically until the entire script is selected. Cannot stop the scroll until the entire script is selected. > > Looks like a new bug to me. > > Henry > >> On Mar 24, 2021, at 2:45 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Henry Lowe wrote: >> >>> If I select text in the LC Script Editor and then drag down to select >>> additional text (e.g. I want to select an entire handler), the editor >>> starts to autoscroll and does not stop until it reaches the end of the >>> script text. Nothing I do stops the scrolling and text selection. I am >>> locked out of LC, which is unresponsive. Activity Monitor shows that >>> LC is using 100% of the CPU while in this ?autoscrolling? state. Once >>> the scroll reaches the end of the text in the editor pane, I get >>> control of LC again. >>> >>> This is only happening with a very large script 5900 lines of text >>> (238K). I am in the progress of breaking this script up into a series >>> of smaller scripts. >>> >>> I suspect that this issue is related to the large amount of text in >>> the script but have not seen this before with this script until I >>> updated to LC 9.6.2 (rc3). >>> >>> Can anyone confirm this issue? >> >> I have seen similar issues on Ubuntu. I believe it may be related to the complicated way the line number field is kept in sync. >> >> The only workaround I've tested is writing my own script editor, thankfully subsidized by a generous soul who commissioned it. It's not yet ready for prime time, though, so I have no immediate solution for LC SE users. >> >> >>> Also, is there an upper limit to the size of a LC script? >> >> There should not be, at least within reasonable memory limits. >> >> And if there were, it shouldn't be anywhere near as short as 5900 lines. I've been stress-testing my with 20k-line scripts. >> >> The LC field object is quite good. Any script editor using it should be quite good too. >> >> -- >> Richard Gaskin >> Fourth World Systems >> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web >> ____________________________________________________________________ >> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Mar 24 18:25:51 2021 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2021 17:25:51 -0500 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259 In-Reply-To: <0832494C-A560-47FF-A140-4D0A765163E6@m-r-d.de> References: <81B64B3D-3FE7-4A99-BEEB-B8C57AEF5F8D@iotecdigital.com> <17862136308.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <7eae18cf-ab98-f173-5854-4c30690e0ba2@hyperactivesw.com> <8b30ac04-63f5-a8ca-a1e7-98560c86261a@hyperactivesw.com> <76BE4E71-0937-43B2-8B41-C913980CF568@m-r-d.de> <13675875-d152-ed30-796d-05f7008f8dd6@hyperactivesw.com> <0832494C-A560-47FF-A140-4D0A765163E6@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: On 3/24/21 4:02 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: > Server scheme use ssl is protocol > ftp:// false ftp > ftp://. true ftp over SSL explicit > ftps:// true ftp over SSL implicit Thanks. Fetch documentation says that FTP with TLS/SSL URLs should start with "ftps" so now I'm not sure what it's doing. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From hlowe at me.com Wed Mar 24 18:34:17 2021 From: hlowe at me.com (HENRY LOWE) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2021 15:34:17 -0700 Subject: Problem with Script Editor in LC 9.6.2 (rc3) In-Reply-To: References: <0A55AD60-2A80-4382-A1B1-FE7A35A798D7@me.com> <7f4ab3b9-7022-6d7f-3421-660f2dc384db@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <33869D2E-DAF0-41ED-8F27-646C34659535@me.com> Thanks Matthias. I am not using any 3rd party text tools or plug-ins. If anyone else can confirm this issue I will submit a bug report. Henry > On Mar 24, 2021, at 3:17 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: > > Henry, > > i had a similar problem already with previous LC releases. In my case a 3rd party tool called Popclip was the culprit. > Popclip is automatically activated as soon as some text is selected. So when i selected text in the editor some strange things happened, for example the whole text was selected and so on. > Fortunately Popclip allows to exclude apps from being monitored by it, so i just had to add Livecode to the list of apps that should be excluded from PopClip actions. > > > Regards, > > > - > Matthias Rebbe > Life Is Too Short For Boring Code > >> Am 24.03.2021 um 22:58 schrieb HENRY LOWE via use-livecode : >> >> Thanks Richard. I turned off the line number option and the problem still occurs. I can reproduce this with any script that extend beyond the bottom of the script editor pane. >> >> Select the first line of a script and then (holding the mouse button down) continue dragging down to select additional lines until you are reach the last visible line. Continue to drag down to get the script editor to autoscroll and the scrolling now continues automatically until the entire script is selected. Cannot stop the scroll until the entire script is selected. >> >> Looks like a new bug to me. >> >> Henry >> >>> On Mar 24, 2021, at 2:45 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> Henry Lowe wrote: >>> >>>> If I select text in the LC Script Editor and then drag down to select >>>> additional text (e.g. I want to select an entire handler), the editor >>>> starts to autoscroll and does not stop until it reaches the end of the >>>> script text. Nothing I do stops the scrolling and text selection. I am >>>> locked out of LC, which is unresponsive. Activity Monitor shows that >>>> LC is using 100% of the CPU while in this ?autoscrolling? state. Once >>>> the scroll reaches the end of the text in the editor pane, I get >>>> control of LC again. >>>> >>>> This is only happening with a very large script 5900 lines of text >>>> (238K). I am in the progress of breaking this script up into a series >>>> of smaller scripts. >>>> >>>> I suspect that this issue is related to the large amount of text in >>>> the script but have not seen this before with this script until I >>>> updated to LC 9.6.2 (rc3). >>>> >>>> Can anyone confirm this issue? >>> >>> I have seen similar issues on Ubuntu. I believe it may be related to the complicated way the line number field is kept in sync. >>> >>> The only workaround I've tested is writing my own script editor, thankfully subsidized by a generous soul who commissioned it. It's not yet ready for prime time, though, so I have no immediate solution for LC SE users. >>> >>> >>>> Also, is there an upper limit to the size of a LC script? >>> >>> There should not be, at least within reasonable memory limits. >>> >>> And if there were, it shouldn't be anywhere near as short as 5900 lines. I've been stress-testing my with 20k-line scripts. >>> >>> The LC field object is quite good. Any script editor using it should be quite good too. >>> >>> -- >>> Richard Gaskin >>> Fourth World Systems >>> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web >>> ____________________________________________________________________ >>> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Mar 24 18:40:41 2021 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2021 22:40:41 +0000 Subject: Problem with Script Editor in LC 9.6.2 (rc3) In-Reply-To: <0A55AD60-2A80-4382-A1B1-FE7A35A798D7@me.com> References: <0A55AD60-2A80-4382-A1B1-FE7A35A798D7@me.com> Message-ID: Same LC version but not Big Sur. I was able to scroll properly while selecting text. Bob S > On Mar 24, 2021, at 2:05 PM, HENRY LOWE via use-livecode wrote: > > Since updating to LC 9.6.2 (rc3) on a 2019 iMac running Mac OS Big Sur 11.2.3 I have been experiencing the following intermittent issue: > > If I select text in the LC Script Editor and then drag down to select additional text (e.g. I want to select an entire handler), the editor starts to autoscroll and does not stop until it reaches the end of the script text. Nothing I do stops the scrolling and text selection. I am locked out of LC, which is unresponsive. Activity Monitor shows that LC is using 100% of the CPU while in this ?autoscrolling? state. Once the scroll reaches the end of the text in the editor pane, I get control of LC again. > > This is only happening with a very large script 5900 lines of text (238K). I am in the progress of breaking this script up into a series of smaller scripts. > > I suspect that this issue is related to the large amount of text in the script but have not seen this before with this script until I updated to LC 9.6.2 (rc3). > > Can anyone confirm this issue? > > Also, is there an upper limit to the size of a LC script? > > Thanks, > > Henry > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Mar 24 18:42:06 2021 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2021 22:42:06 +0000 Subject: Problem with Script Editor in LC 9.6.2 (rc3) In-Reply-To: References: <0A55AD60-2A80-4382-A1B1-FE7A35A798D7@me.com> <7f4ab3b9-7022-6d7f-3421-660f2dc384db@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Are you sure you do not have a mouseUp handler somewhere in a frontScript? Bob S > On Mar 24, 2021, at 2:58 PM, HENRY LOWE via use-livecode wrote: > > Thanks Richard. I turned off the line number option and the problem still occurs. I can reproduce this with any script that extend beyond the bottom of the script editor pane. > > Select the first line of a script and then (holding the mouse button down) continue dragging down to select additional lines until you are reach the last visible line. Continue to drag down to get the script editor to autoscroll and the scrolling now continues automatically until the entire script is selected. Cannot stop the scroll until the entire script is selected. > > Looks like a new bug to me. > > Henry > >> On Mar 24, 2021, at 2:45 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Henry Lowe wrote: >> >>> If I select text in the LC Script Editor and then drag down to select >>> additional text (e.g. I want to select an entire handler), the editor >>> starts to autoscroll and does not stop until it reaches the end of the >>> script text. Nothing I do stops the scrolling and text selection. I am >>> locked out of LC, which is unresponsive. Activity Monitor shows that >>> LC is using 100% of the CPU while in this ?autoscrolling? state. Once >>> the scroll reaches the end of the text in the editor pane, I get >>> control of LC again. >>> >>> This is only happening with a very large script 5900 lines of text >>> (238K). I am in the progress of breaking this script up into a series >>> of smaller scripts. >>> >>> I suspect that this issue is related to the large amount of text in >>> the script but have not seen this before with this script until I >>> updated to LC 9.6.2 (rc3). >>> >>> Can anyone confirm this issue? >> >> I have seen similar issues on Ubuntu. I believe it may be related to the complicated way the line number field is kept in sync. >> >> The only workaround I've tested is writing my own script editor, thankfully subsidized by a generous soul who commissioned it. It's not yet ready for prime time, though, so I have no immediate solution for LC SE users. >> >> >>> Also, is there an upper limit to the size of a LC script? >> >> There should not be, at least within reasonable memory limits. >> >> And if there were, it shouldn't be anywhere near as short as 5900 lines. I've been stress-testing my with 20k-line scripts. >> >> The LC field object is quite good. Any script editor using it should be quite good too. >> >> -- >> Richard Gaskin >> Fourth World Systems >> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web >> ____________________________________________________________________ >> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Wed Mar 24 18:44:04 2021 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2021 23:44:04 +0100 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259 In-Reply-To: References: <81B64B3D-3FE7-4A99-BEEB-B8C57AEF5F8D@iotecdigital.com> <17862136308.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <7eae18cf-ab98-f173-5854-4c30690e0ba2@hyperactivesw.com> <8b30ac04-63f5-a8ca-a1e7-98560c86261a@hyperactivesw.com> <76BE4E71-0937-43B2-8B41-C913980CF568@m-r-d.de> <13675875-d152-ed30-796d-05f7008f8dd6@hyperactivesw.com> <0832494C-A560-47FF-A140-4D0A765163E6@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: I've just had a quick look at the documentation of Fetch. It seems Fetch uses ftps:// for both FTPeS (FTP over SSL explicit) and FTPS (FTP over SSL implicit). But it depends on the port number you have entered. If you keep port 21 then FTPS (FTP over SSL implicit) is used. If you set the port to 990 then Fetch uses FTPS (FTP over SSL implicit). Btw. it is not granted that an FTP server supports all modes. Regards, Matthias - Matthias Rebbe Life Is Too Short For Boring Code > Am 24.03.2021 um 23:25 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode : > > On 3/24/21 4:02 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: >> Server scheme use ssl is protocol >> ftp:// false ftp >> ftp://. true ftp over SSL explicit >> ftps:// true ftp over SSL implicit > > Thanks. Fetch documentation says that FTP with TLS/SSL URLs should start with "ftps" so now I'm not sure what it's doing. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Wed Mar 24 18:51:56 2021 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2021 23:51:56 +0100 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259 In-Reply-To: References: <81B64B3D-3FE7-4A99-BEEB-B8C57AEF5F8D@iotecdigital.com> <17862136308.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <7eae18cf-ab98-f173-5854-4c30690e0ba2@hyperactivesw.com> <8b30ac04-63f5-a8ca-a1e7-98560c86261a@hyperactivesw.com> <76BE4E71-0937-43B2-8B41-C913980CF568@m-r-d.de> <13675875-d152-ed30-796d-05f7008f8dd6@hyperactivesw.com> <0832494C-A560-47FF-A140-4D0A765163E6@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <18C9E32C-605C-4BA3-A2FC-025BBD344672@m-r-d.de> what i forgot my previous overview >>> Server scheme use ssl is protocol >>> ftp:// false ftp >>> ftp://. true ftp over SSL explicit >>> ftps:// true ftp over SSL implicit is how tsNet needs the server url - Matthias Rebbe Life Is Too Short For Boring Code > Am 24.03.2021 um 23:44 schrieb matthias rebbe via use-livecode : > > I've just had a quick look at the documentation of Fetch. > It seems Fetch uses ftps:// for both FTPeS (FTP over SSL explicit) and FTPS (FTP over SSL implicit). But it depends on the port number you have entered. > If you keep port 21 then FTPS (FTP over SSL implicit) is used. > If you set the port to 990 then Fetch uses FTPS (FTP over SSL implicit). > > Btw. it is not granted that an FTP server supports all modes. > > Regards, > Matthias > > - > Matthias Rebbe > Life Is Too Short For Boring Code > >> Am 24.03.2021 um 23:25 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode : >> >> On 3/24/21 4:02 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: >>> Server scheme use ssl is protocol >>> ftp:// false ftp >>> ftp://. true ftp over SSL explicit >>> ftps:// true ftp over SSL implicit >> >> Thanks. Fetch documentation says that FTP with TLS/SSL URLs should start with "ftps" so now I'm not sure what it's doing. >> >> -- >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Mar 24 19:22:18 2021 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2021 16:22:18 -0700 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259 In-Reply-To: <18C9E32C-605C-4BA3-A2FC-025BBD344672@m-r-d.de> References: <18C9E32C-605C-4BA3-A2FC-025BBD344672@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <04385b10-408a-d826-c81f-135021dd6c43@fourthworld.com> FTP is a great protocol for open-ended traversal of remote file repositories. For just transferring a file, scp or rsync with shared keys is a one-liner via shell(), and will be faster in addition to being simpler to code. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems > matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de > Wed Mar 24 18:51:56 EDT 2021 > > what i forgot > > my previous overview >>>> Server scheme use ssl is protocol >>>> ftp:// false ftp >>>> ftp://. true ftp over SSL explicit >>>> ftps:// true ftp over SSL implicit > > is how tsNet needs the server url > > > - > Matthias Rebbe > Life Is Too Short For Boring Code > >> Am 24.03.2021 um 23:44 schrieb matthias rebbe via use-livecode : >> >> I've just had a quick look at the documentation of Fetch. >> It seems Fetch uses ftps:// for both FTPeS (FTP over SSL explicit) and FTPS (FTP over SSL implicit). But it depends on the port number you have entered. >> If you keep port 21 then FTPS (FTP over SSL implicit) is used. >> If you set the port to 990 then Fetch uses FTPS (FTP over SSL implicit). >> >> Btw. it is not granted that an FTP server supports all modes. >> >> Regards, >> Matthias >> >> - >> Matthias Rebbe >> Life Is Too Short For Boring Code >> >>> Am 24.03.2021 um 23:25 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode : >>> >>> On 3/24/21 4:02 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: >>>> Server scheme use ssl is protocol >>>> ftp:// false ftp >>>> ftp://. true ftp over SSL explicit >>>> ftps:// true ftp over SSL implicit >>> >>> Thanks. Fetch documentation says that FTP with TLS/SSL URLs should start with "ftps" so now I'm not sure what it's doing. >>> >>> -- >>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Wed Mar 24 19:35:02 2021 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2021 00:35:02 +0100 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259 In-Reply-To: <04385b10-408a-d826-c81f-135021dd6c43@fourthworld.com> References: <18C9E32C-605C-4BA3-A2FC-025BBD344672@m-r-d.de> <04385b10-408a-d826-c81f-135021dd6c43@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <948E3A51-8011-480F-A872-195F557D33B5@m-r-d.de> - Matthias Rebbe Life Is Too Short For Boring Code > Am 25.03.2021 um 00:22 schrieb Richard Gaskin via use-livecode : > > FTP is a great protocol for open-ended traversal of remote file repositories. > > For just transferring a file, scp or rsync with shared keys is a one-liner via shell(), and will be faster in addition to being simpler to code. > But only on macOS and Linux. Windows has not any of those tools included by default. > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Mar 24 19:41:19 2021 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2021 23:41:19 +0000 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259 In-Reply-To: <04385b10-408a-d826-c81f-135021dd6c43@fourthworld.com> References: <18C9E32C-605C-4BA3-A2FC-025BBD344672@m-r-d.de> <04385b10-408a-d826-c81f-135021dd6c43@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <6EC18267-3AEB-4756-99C6-F7F9CF94E74B@iotecdigital.com> Or sockets. Bob S On Mar 24, 2021, at 4:22 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode > wrote: FTP is a great protocol for open-ended traversal of remote file repositories. For just transferring a file, scp or rsync with shared keys is a one-liner via shell(), and will be faster in addition to being simpler to code. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Mar 24 19:50:49 2021 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2021 16:50:49 -0700 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259 In-Reply-To: <948E3A51-8011-480F-A872-195F557D33B5@m-r-d.de> References: <948E3A51-8011-480F-A872-195F557D33B5@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: In this discussion of personal plugins run on macOS, a macOS solution seemed appropriate. And with Windows 10, Microsoft is now embracing Linux in its Windows Subsystem for Linux, so Win folk can enjoy industry standard tooling on all OSes: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/learn/modules/get-started-with-windows-subsystem-for-linux/1-introduction -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems > matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de > Wed Mar 24 19:35:02 EDT 2021 > - > Matthias Rebbe > Life Is Too Short For Boring Code > >> Am 25.03.2021 um 00:22 schrieb Richard Gaskin via use-livecode : >> >> FTP is a great protocol for open-ended traversal of remote file repositories. >> >> For just transferring a file, scp or rsync with shared keys is a one-liner via shell(), and will be faster in addition to being simpler to code. >> > But only on macOS and Linux. Windows has not any of those tools included by default. > > > >> -- >> Richard Gaskin From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Mar 24 19:53:39 2021 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2021 16:53:39 -0700 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259 In-Reply-To: <6EC18267-3AEB-4756-99C6-F7F9CF94E74B@iotecdigital.com> References: <6EC18267-3AEB-4756-99C6-F7F9CF94E74B@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <8c4e48eb-914c-c5d0-45c8-8d9fff158b73@fourthworld.com> I don't understand. FTP, SFTP, FTPS, scp, and rsync all use sockets. Are you suggesting Jacque write her own file upload protocol? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Bob Sneidar wrote: > Or sockets. > > Bob S > > > On Mar 24, 2021, at 4:22 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > >> FTP is a great protocol for open-ended traversal of remote file >> repositories. >> >> For just transferring a file, scp or rsync with shared keys is a one- >> liner via shell(), and will be faster in addition to being simpler to >> code. >> >> -- >> Richard Gaskin >> Fourth World Systems From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Mar 24 21:14:05 2021 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2021 01:14:05 +0000 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259 In-Reply-To: <8c4e48eb-914c-c5d0-45c8-8d9fff158b73@fourthworld.com> References: <6EC18267-3AEB-4756-99C6-F7F9CF94E74B@iotecdigital.com> <8c4e48eb-914c-c5d0-45c8-8d9fff158b73@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <22E913E5-4D64-4535-9562-361AD7135F0A@iotecdigital.com> I suppose everything networking uses sockets, but these are protocols with standardized ways of establishing the connection and securing it. I was thinking of a custom client server file transfer method, but whether or not it could work for Jacque, I don?t know. Bob S On Mar 24, 2021, at 4:53 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode > wrote: I don't understand. FTP, SFTP, FTPS, scp, and rsync all use sockets. Are you suggesting Jacque write her own file upload protocol? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems From andre at andregarzia.com Thu Mar 25 08:14:58 2021 From: andre at andregarzia.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2021 12:14:58 +0000 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259 In-Reply-To: <6d2ce5ca-4ada-1749-0236-44d3b7d6e5a3@sonic.net> References: <81B64B3D-3FE7-4A99-BEEB-B8C57AEF5F8D@iotecdigital.com> <17862136308.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <6d2ce5ca-4ada-1749-0236-44d3b7d6e5a3@sonic.net> Message-ID: <4B33A0AB-07B5-4F42-83A0-8AA85FE89105@andregarzia.com> > On 24 Mar 2021, at 17:11, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > > I think there may be other questions in play as well. > Will I learn anything from doing this? > Will I have fun experimenting with it? > Are there more pressing things I need to do instead? > etc. YES, a thousand times yes! More than half of what I develop here falls into all these categories. I can push the ?trying this just for fun? pretty far. The last project I made that was a fun experiment was https://andregarzia.com/2020/04/starting-project-moon-hermit.html and I still love it even though it is not really a project or product. The book is framed around a mindset for building stuff for business needs, not for personal growth and understanding, and not for fun. It is more like: ?these patterns are good when you?re doing something that we would normally call ?a job?.? That doesn?t mean that every other mode of development is excluded or less important. I think that the ethos of that book can be summarised as in being a mode of thinking that prioritises developer comfort and safety in maintaining a business or a long project. Maybe, the next book will be about having fun while developing. Don?t know... From andre at andregarzia.com Thu Mar 25 08:19:54 2021 From: andre at andregarzia.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2021 12:19:54 +0000 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259 In-Reply-To: <7eae18cf-ab98-f173-5854-4c30690e0ba2@hyperactivesw.com> References: <81B64B3D-3FE7-4A99-BEEB-B8C57AEF5F8D@iotecdigital.com> <17862136308.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <7eae18cf-ab98-f173-5854-4c30690e0ba2@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: > On 24 Mar 2021, at 19:12, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > > Andre: After TSNet failed, I did try to use AppleScript but Fetch put up a dialog that it did not allow AppleScript sent from other apps. And BTW, next time leave in the fun stuff. :) Not accepting AppleScript from other apps basically defeats the reason to use AppleScript IMHO? those devs are crazy. Anyway, that sucks. I know that Transmit has a pretty comprehensive AppleScript dictionary as can be seen in: https://andregarzia.com/img/shots/transmit-dictionary.png It is not a cheap software though, but I think it is worthy it. Next time, I?m leaving the fun bits :-) From andre at andregarzia.com Thu Mar 25 08:25:40 2021 From: andre at andregarzia.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2021 12:25:40 +0000 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259 In-Reply-To: References: <948E3A51-8011-480F-A872-195F557D33B5@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <171F7276-13A2-4882-BCBC-62713FA980C0@andregarzia.com> > On 24 Mar 2021, at 23:50, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > And with Windows 10, Microsoft is now embracing Linux in its Windows Subsystem for Linux, so Win folk can enjoy industry standard tooling on all OSes: Just be aware that WSL is not activated by default, and you can?t assume which distro is installed (even though Ubuntu is probably 90% of the installs). There are shell commands you can use to probe if WSL is installed, which distros are installed, and also execute something on a specific installed distro. All that is possible but it is not exactly trivial. Windows is quite flexible in a way that most systems are not. You might be running on Intel or ARM, you might be running 32bits or 64bits, you might be using cmd, powershell 5 or 7, bash, who knows what shell is running. Your distros under WSL might be WSL1 (which is syscall translations) or WSL2 (which is hypervisor emulator). You kinda need to take those things into account if you?re running shell() commands or trying to bundle binaries. If you have control of the Windows machine, then you can set it up to run as you want, but if you?re shipping software for end-users, you can?t assume WSL Ubuntu is there so you can run rsync. I know you didn?t say that but often I see scripts in other communities that assume a ton of stuff (even on macOS where many scripts assume homebrew is present). From andre at andregarzia.com Thu Mar 25 08:28:25 2021 From: andre at andregarzia.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2021 12:28:25 +0000 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259 In-Reply-To: <22E913E5-4D64-4535-9562-361AD7135F0A@iotecdigital.com> References: <6EC18267-3AEB-4756-99C6-F7F9CF94E74B@iotecdigital.com> <8c4e48eb-914c-c5d0-45c8-8d9fff158b73@fourthworld.com> <22E913E5-4D64-4535-9562-361AD7135F0A@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: > On 25 Mar 2021, at 01:14, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > > I suppose everything networking uses sockets, but these are protocols with standardized ways of establishing the connection and securing it. I was thinking of a custom client server file transfer method, but whether or not it could work for Jacque, I don?t know. > > Bob S Devising your own binary file transfer protocol based purely on TCP sockets is a very tedious and error prone process that will get you no advantages unless you really have some special need that is not solved by any of the solutions that already exists. The easiest way to work around not being able to use FTP and friends, is with a simple HTTP server and a CGI on the server machine that has logic for receiving file uploads, then you simply use either libURL or TSNet to send the files. From craig at starfirelighting.com Thu Mar 25 08:44:06 2021 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2021 08:44:06 -0400 Subject: Set and get dgData and dgText delay In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8EA4FB16-572C-4E87-8909-B03818EC0738@starfirelighting.com> I have seen this here and there for years, and having nothing to do with dataGrids per se. A handler will fail to run, but will step through in the debugger without issue. This usually resolves, and I never know why. Craig > On Mar 24, 2021, at 5:09 PM, Pi Digital via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi All > > This has been a bit of a mind bender, mainly because in a test stack it works just fine, but... > > Has anyone ever had problems with something like this: > > on myHandle > ? ...some code > Set the dgData of grp ?myDG? to tDataA > Put the dgText of grp ?myDG? into tDataS > ? tDataS returns empty > ? process tDataS... > end myHandle > > And this: > > on myHandle > ? ...some code > Set the dgData of grp ?myDG? to tDataA > dispatch ?myHandlePt2? > end myHandle > > on myHandlePt2 > Put the dgText of grp ?myDG? into tDataS > ? tDataS returns empty > ? process tDataS... > end myHandlePt2 > > However, this works: > > on myHandle > ? ...some code > Set the dgData of grp ?myDG? to tDataA > send ?myHandlePt2? to me in 0 sec > end myHandle > > on myHandlePt2 > Put the dgText of grp ?myDG? into tDataS > ? tDataS returns empty > ? process tDataS... > end myHandlePt2 > > > It seemingly doesn?t have anything to do with data length. I?ve tried forcing a refresh of the grid using dispatch refreshList to it but that makes no difference. Stepping through in the debugger allows it to work or setting a breakpoint, but does not when in full run. Both in standalone and ide. > > A one have any clues why this might not work sometimes? > > Thanks > > Sean Cole > Pi Digital > eMail Ts & Cs > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From sean at pidigital.co.uk Thu Mar 25 09:46:38 2021 From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Sean Cole (Pi)) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2021 13:46:38 +0000 Subject: Set and get dgData and dgText delay In-Reply-To: <8EA4FB16-572C-4E87-8909-B03818EC0738@starfirelighting.com> References: <8EA4FB16-572C-4E87-8909-B03818EC0738@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: Thanks Craig This could make some sense. There are a lot of handlers to deal with. I thought I was going a bit mad. I?m just going to have to pick my way through. On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 at 12:44, Craig Newman via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I have seen this here and there for years, and having nothing to do with > dataGrids per se. > > A handler will fail to run, but will step through in the debugger without > issue. This usually resolves, and I never know why. > > Craig > > > On Mar 24, 2021, at 5:09 PM, Pi Digital via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > Hi All > > > > This has been a bit of a mind bender, mainly because in a test stack it > works just fine, but... > > > > Has anyone ever had problems with something like this: > > > > on myHandle > > ? ...some code > > Set the dgData of grp ?myDG? to tDataA > > Put the dgText of grp ?myDG? into tDataS > > ? tDataS returns empty > > ? process tDataS... > > end myHandle > > > > And this: > > > > on myHandle > > ? ...some code > > Set the dgData of grp ?myDG? to tDataA > > dispatch ?myHandlePt2? > > end myHandle > > > > on myHandlePt2 > > Put the dgText of grp ?myDG? into tDataS > > ? tDataS returns empty > > ? process tDataS... > > end myHandlePt2 > > > > However, this works: > > > > on myHandle > > ? ...some code > > Set the dgData of grp ?myDG? to tDataA > > send ?myHandlePt2? to me in 0 sec > > end myHandle > > > > on myHandlePt2 > > Put the dgText of grp ?myDG? into tDataS > > ? tDataS returns empty > > ? process tDataS... > > end myHandlePt2 > > > > > > It seemingly doesn?t have anything to do with data length. I?ve tried > forcing a refresh of the grid using dispatch refreshList to it but that > makes no difference. Stepping through in the debugger allows it to work or > setting a breakpoint, but does not when in full run. Both in standalone and > ide. > > > > A one have any clues why this might not work sometimes? > > > > Thanks > > > > Sean Cole > > Pi Digital > > eMail Ts & Cs > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Pi Digital From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Mar 25 10:45:00 2021 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2021 07:45:00 -0700 Subject: Set and get dgData and dgText delay In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8f88bf58-a784-0c6b-6931-6cc692091b14@fourthworld.com> The difference between the working and non-working examples seems to be limited to the introduction of a delay in the working one, between setting the dgData array and later obtaining its text. Since the array form is what the DG uses internally, perhaps something during loading of that array or rendering the UI needs the "wait 0", and what you're seeing is a side effect of that internal need. Being scripted in LC, the DG code could be examined for "wait" or "send" to see what's up. But while the exploration may be fun it would likely be inconsequential, since given the general quality of Trevor's work the delay is probably not a mistake, but a necessity. That is, you'd learn WHY you need the delay, but you'd still need it. If you do go spelunking in the DG source please let us know what you find. But now that you've found the solution it may be just as well to use it and move on with what you're building. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Sean Cole wrote: > Thanks Craig > > This could make some sense. There are a lot of handlers to deal with. I > thought I was going a bit mad. I?m just going to have to pick my way > through. > > On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 at 12:44, Craig Newman via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> I have seen this here and there for years, and having nothing to do with >> dataGrids per se. >> >> A handler will fail to run, but will step through in the debugger without >> issue. This usually resolves, and I never know why. >> >> Craig >> >> > On Mar 24, 2021, at 5:09 PM, Pi Digital via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> > >> > Hi All >> > >> > This has been a bit of a mind bender, mainly because in a test stack it >> works just fine, but... >> > >> > Has anyone ever had problems with something like this: >> > >> > on myHandle >> > ? ...some code >> > Set the dgData of grp ?myDG? to tDataA >> > Put the dgText of grp ?myDG? into tDataS >> > ? tDataS returns empty >> > ? process tDataS... >> > end myHandle >> > >> > And this: >> > >> > on myHandle >> > ? ...some code >> > Set the dgData of grp ?myDG? to tDataA >> > dispatch ?myHandlePt2? >> > end myHandle >> > >> > on myHandlePt2 >> > Put the dgText of grp ?myDG? into tDataS >> > ? tDataS returns empty >> > ? process tDataS... >> > end myHandlePt2 >> > >> > However, this works: >> > >> > on myHandle >> > ? ...some code >> > Set the dgData of grp ?myDG? to tDataA >> > send ?myHandlePt2? to me in 0 sec >> > end myHandle >> > >> > on myHandlePt2 >> > Put the dgText of grp ?myDG? into tDataS >> > ? tDataS returns empty >> > ? process tDataS... >> > end myHandlePt2 >> > >> > >> > It seemingly doesn?t have anything to do with data length. I?ve tried >> forcing a refresh of the grid using dispatch refreshList to it but that >> makes no difference. Stepping through in the debugger allows it to work or >> setting a breakpoint, but does not when in full run. Both in standalone and >> ide. >> > >> > A one have any clues why this might not work sometimes? >> > >> > Thanks >> > >> > Sean Cole >> > Pi Digital >> > eMail Ts & Cs From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Mar 25 10:58:22 2021 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2021 07:58:22 -0700 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <10886b84-c2a7-657c-91ef-350d7495e9c6@fourthworld.com> Andre Garzia wrote: > Devising your own binary file transfer protocol based purely on TCP > sockets is a very tedious and error prone process that will get you > no advantages unless you really have some special need that is not > solved by any of the solutions that already exists. > > The easiest way to work around not being able to use FTP and friends, > is with a simple HTTP server and a CGI on the server machine that has > logic for receiving file uploads, then you simply use either libURL or > TSNet to send the files. When SuperCard introduced socket programming to the Mac xTalk world with its companion Marionette add-on, being young folk we got all excited about crafting custom protocols for every little thing we needed. It was a good learning experience, and I came to appreciate the vast range of styles in writing clients for NNTP, Gnutella, and FTP, in addition to the random protocols I came up with on my own. But the biggest lesson I learned is not to write custom protocols. :) It's a lot of work to get them working well, and far more work to make them secure and robust. These days I rarely think about protocols at all, at least in customer-facing code. I've adopted using HTTP as the default solution for everything, unless I have a specific reason not to use it. Most of what we need from a server is to submit a request and get a reply, and occasionally have some metadata along for the ride. HTTP does that well, with very slim header requirements that are also vastly extensible, so metadata is as simple or rich as you need in the moment. There's more documentation and tooling for HTTP than any other protocol, so it's easy to learn to use it well, and if another programming joins the team they can work with your code effortlessly. Defaulting to HTTP for customer-facing systems simplifies a lot of decision-making, and since most of the rest of the world makes the same choice at least we're in good company. :) -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems From dochawk at gmail.com Thu Mar 25 11:03:15 2021 From: dochawk at gmail.com (doc hawk) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2021 08:03:15 -0700 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259 In-Reply-To: <98553DFB-9D2E-483A-BAC3-65C7159FCD6A@andregarzia.com> References: <81B64B3D-3FE7-4A99-BEEB-B8C57AEF5F8D@iotecdigital.com> <17862136308.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <5A75DD4E-EC16-455A-B37A-CB789CD80590@m-r-d.de> <6D9F49BB-60EB-441B-8F0D-CADC1CA21D32@m-r-d.de> <98553DFB-9D2E-483A-BAC3-65C7159FCD6A@andregarzia.com> Message-ID: andre amplified, >Next time, I?m leaving them in. Ahh. The director?s cut . . . :_) From sean at pidigital.co.uk Thu Mar 25 11:24:40 2021 From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Sean Cole (Pi)) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2021 15:24:40 +0000 Subject: Set and get dgData and dgText delay In-Reply-To: <8f88bf58-a784-0c6b-6931-6cc692091b14@fourthworld.com> References: <8f88bf58-a784-0c6b-6931-6cc692091b14@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: I?ve tried using wait, wait with messages, wait until. No joy. But in a separate test stack with the same data it works just fine having them one after the other. There is no sense to it NOT passing the text one line to the next. I thought it might be because it was located in a preOpenCard script but moving it into the openCard or even 0sec after the open card in another handler made no difference. The real issue here is that the same stack worked ok before so there is something we have done that upset it. I?m just going to have to pick my way through till I find what is preventing the Dg from carrying out its function. In the background. On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 at 14:45, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > The difference between the working and non-working examples seems to be > limited to the introduction of a delay in the working one, between > setting the dgData array and later obtaining its text. > > Since the array form is what the DG uses internally, perhaps something > during loading of that array or rendering the UI needs the "wait 0", and > what you're seeing is a side effect of that internal need. > > Being scripted in LC, the DG code could be examined for "wait" or "send" > to see what's up. > > But while the exploration may be fun it would likely be inconsequential, > since given the general quality of Trevor's work the delay is probably > not a mistake, but a necessity. That is, you'd learn WHY you need the > delay, but you'd still need it. > > If you do go spelunking in the DG source please let us know what you find. > > But now that you've found the solution it may be just as well to use it > and move on with what you're building. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > > > > > Sean Cole wrote: > > > Thanks Craig > > > > This could make some sense. There are a lot of handlers to deal with. I > > thought I was going a bit mad. I?m just going to have to pick my way > > through. > > > > On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 at 12:44, Craig Newman via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > >> I have seen this here and there for years, and having nothing to do with > >> dataGrids per se. > >> > >> A handler will fail to run, but will step through in the debugger > without > >> issue. This usually resolves, and I never know why. > >> > >> Craig > >> > >> > On Mar 24, 2021, at 5:09 PM, Pi Digital via use-livecode < > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> > > >> > Hi All > >> > > >> > This has been a bit of a mind bender, mainly because in a test stack > it > >> works just fine, but... > >> > > >> > Has anyone ever had problems with something like this: > >> > > >> > on myHandle > >> > ? ...some code > >> > Set the dgData of grp ?myDG? to tDataA > >> > Put the dgText of grp ?myDG? into tDataS > >> > ? tDataS returns empty > >> > ? process tDataS... > >> > end myHandle > >> > > >> > And this: > >> > > >> > on myHandle > >> > ? ...some code > >> > Set the dgData of grp ?myDG? to tDataA > >> > dispatch ?myHandlePt2? > >> > end myHandle > >> > > >> > on myHandlePt2 > >> > Put the dgText of grp ?myDG? into tDataS > >> > ? tDataS returns empty > >> > ? process tDataS... > >> > end myHandlePt2 > >> > > >> > However, this works: > >> > > >> > on myHandle > >> > ? ...some code > >> > Set the dgData of grp ?myDG? to tDataA > >> > send ?myHandlePt2? to me in 0 sec > >> > end myHandle > >> > > >> > on myHandlePt2 > >> > Put the dgText of grp ?myDG? into tDataS > >> > ? tDataS returns empty > >> > ? process tDataS... > >> > end myHandlePt2 > >> > > >> > > >> > It seemingly doesn?t have anything to do with data length. I?ve tried > >> forcing a refresh of the grid using dispatch refreshList to it but that > >> makes no difference. Stepping through in the debugger allows it to work > or > >> setting a breakpoint, but does not when in full run. Both in standalone > and > >> ide. > >> > > >> > A one have any clues why this might not work sometimes? > >> > > >> > Thanks > >> > > >> > Sean Cole > >> > Pi Digital > >> > eMail Ts & Cs > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Pi Digital From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Mar 25 11:30:38 2021 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2021 08:30:38 -0700 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259 In-Reply-To: <171F7276-13A2-4882-BCBC-62713FA980C0@andregarzia.com> References: <171F7276-13A2-4882-BCBC-62713FA980C0@andregarzia.com> Message-ID: Andre Garzia wrote: > On 24 Mar 2021, at 23:50, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> >> And with Windows 10, Microsoft is now embracing Linux in its Windows >> Subsystem for Linux, so Win folk can enjoy industry standard tooling >> on all OSes: ... > If you have control of the Windows machine, then you can set it up to > run as you want, but if you?re shipping software for end-users, you > can?t assume WSL Ubuntu is there so you can run rsync. > > I know you didn?t say that but often I see scripts in other > communities that assume a ton of stuff (even on macOS where > many scripts assume homebrew is present). True, I didn't say that. What I said was: In this discussion of personal plugins run on macOS, a macOS solution seemed appropriate. We often see AppleScript presented on this list, as it was in this discussion as well. But it's far less pervasive than bash: it's only available on macOS, with no option at all for using it anywhere else. And it's only well supported in an ever-smaller percentage of apps (not to mention slow, finicky, and hugely unpopular with the Steve Jobs/NeXT acolytes running much of Apple's tech divisions). For most sysadmin tasks, these days Apple nudges us toward shell, with a large and growing number of bash examples in their dev docs. macOS being a certified Unix, bash is a good choice for Apple to promote, and for developers and sysadmins to use. Of course for any customer-facing solution we'll want to be mindful of dependencies. But since everyone here is a developer, and this discussion is about developers making tools for themselves, appreciating the full scope of options available to us doesn't seem a mistake. Modern macOS development increasingly means being familiar with Terminal. Time spent there is not only necessary for many things, but as we learn how to integrate the shell with LiveCode the options for automation of both local and remote workflows becomes nearly as limitless as one's imagination. As for Windows, Microsoft doesn't pour millions into building out subsystems on a whim. Their embrace of the Linux shell for developers is as much a part of their well-thought-out strategy as Nadella's embrace of open source. Microsoft understands what we see in the work that comes our own desks: in the modern world, software development is usually client-server development, with half of most systems we deliver living in the cloud. Microsoft IIS remains deeply entrenched within the enterprise, but most things customer-facing are Linux. Indeed, even on Microsoft's own Azure the most popular OS is Ubuntu. Like Apple, Microsoft is actively encouraging devs to consider adopting bash as a prime choice for admin tasks. It's where the tooling is, and on dev systems it's being made ever more available for today's interoperable workflows. We don't have a truly universal admin language, but bash is as close as we get right now: built into every Mac, native to every Linux server we work with, and with strong developer support by Microsoft. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems From sean at pidigital.co.uk Thu Mar 25 11:35:56 2021 From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Sean Cole (Pi)) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2021 15:35:56 +0000 Subject: Problem with Script Editor in LC 9.6.2 (rc3) In-Reply-To: <7f4ab3b9-7022-6d7f-3421-660f2dc384db@fourthworld.com> References: <0A55AD60-2A80-4382-A1B1-FE7A35A798D7@me.com> <7f4ab3b9-7022-6d7f-3421-660f2dc384db@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Quick question. Why would the line number field be complicated? I can?t imagine anything that would necessitate making it complicated. Numbers and break points. That?s all it handles, right? On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 at 21:45, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I believe it may be related to > the complicated way the line number field is kept in sync. > -- Pi Digital From sean at pidigital.co.uk Thu Mar 25 11:42:18 2021 From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Sean Cole (Pi)) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2021 15:42:18 +0000 Subject: Problem with Script Editor in LC 9.6.2 (rc3) In-Reply-To: <33869D2E-DAF0-41ED-8F27-646C34659535@me.com> References: <0A55AD60-2A80-4382-A1B1-FE7A35A798D7@me.com> <7f4ab3b9-7022-6d7f-3421-660f2dc384db@fourthworld.com> <33869D2E-DAF0-41ED-8F27-646C34659535@me.com> Message-ID: I have definitely experienced this in Windows, not Mac. But I had assumed it was an anomaly from running it in Parallels. I?ve had it for a number of versions back now. It only happens occasionally and, as you say, only for large scripts where it has the most impact. I tend to walk away, make a coffee, come back and it will have stopped and I can scroll using a different method. The scroll wheel works ok. It?s mostly noticeable when clicking the scroll area (not the bar itself) to page jump or using the line up/down buttons. I hope this helps in your reporting. Sean On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 at 22:34, HENRY LOWE via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Thanks Matthias. I am not using any 3rd party text tools or plug-ins. > > If anyone else can confirm this issue I will submit a bug report. > > Henry -- Pi Digital From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Mar 25 12:47:16 2021 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2021 09:47:16 -0700 Subject: Problem with Script Editor in LC 9.6.2 (rc3) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <526b277f-1a6c-b92e-1fa9-557da53cc691@fourthworld.com> Sean Cole wrote: > On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 at 21:45, Richard Gaskin wrote: > >> I believe it may be related to the complicated way the line >> number field is kept in sync. > > Quick question. Why would the line number field be complicated? I > can?t imagine anything that would necessitate making it complicated. > Numbers and break points. That?s all it handles, right? It's easy to describe anything in terms that make it sound simple, but whether a task is *actually* simple depends on many things. It's equally an oversimplification to arbitrarily divide the world into two types of programmers, xTalkers and C coders, but that won't stop me from indulging in it here : If we look at text editors made by C coders, they generally only render the line numbers visible on screen given the current scroll position. But they do everything with lower-level/computer-oriented thinking, with lineto and moveto and stringAt (yes, the Inside Macintosh references there show my age, but you know what I mean), so for them these types of calculations are second-nature and not considered tedious at all, it's just how things are done. xTalkers, by virtue of choosing a language that is not only high-level but among the very few that directly incorporate GUI controls as inherent language elements, think differently. To us we put text into a field and set the scroll as we like and let the engine figure out the details. Which is "best" is a topic that can be hotly debated, and was here on this list several years ago in a thread on making text editors in LC. One of the participants in that thread was Jeff Massung, who'd made a very nice Erlang editor in LC. In his view, IIRC, it was wasteful to ask the engine to render thousands of lines of line numbers if the script being displayed was much shorter. He felt that the "right" approach would be to do as C programmers do, to dynamically calculate which line numbers should be visible and dynamically populate the line number list with only those on each scrollBarDrag. Others, including myself, felt that using xTalk objects as xTalkers are accustomed to using them was not a mistake at all, but actually quite with-the-grain for xTalk work. Even if we're asking the engine to work harder, we're doing it only once up front, relying on the engine's good buffering to make scrolling throughout the rest of the session simpler. It's worth noting that the excellent DataGrid relies on dynamically-calculated scrolling, but even more worthy to note WHY: It's not because scrolling the DG is made any faster (observably it isn't). It's because the performance impact of dynamically-calculated scrolling is a NECESSARY tradeoff to cover the sometimes-large number of records it's asked to display. LC uses 32-bit coordinate addressing, which is more than adequate for most things we render since it gives us about 30 feet of drawing space, far bigger than any monitor. But if you try to place tens of thousands of groups nested within a scrolling group, you'll quickly discover what happens when you exceed 32-bit coordinate space. :) So Trevor did the tedious work of providing a profoundly flexible DataGrid, where for the relatively low cost of a modest performance hit during scrolls we can effortlessly display even vast numbers of records, by only actually rendering those on screen at any given time. But the 32-bit coordinate space only applies to controls, not the contents within text fields, so.... Back to the LC Script Editor, truth be told it's been so long since I donned my pith helmet to dive into its code jungle that I'm not in a position to speak authoritatively on how it's constructed. But we can observe (sadly, without much effort) a lag between scrolling the script field and the subsequent update of the line number list. In some cases, depending on platform and script length, this lag is more easily seen than on others. This suggests that there's a lot more going on with the SE's line number update than just setting its scroll to match the editor field's. Indeed, given the variance of the lag it would seem it's not updated directly at all, but perhaps via "send". It wouldn't be appropriate to say the LC implementation is necessarily "wrong" or even "bad". It's a deeply complicated layout with a lot of updates to manage, and given the vast scope of its design ambitions it's hard to say what one "should" do there. But it is safe to observe that it was written by people who cut their teeth on languages more lower-level than xTalk. Aside from Monte and Kevin, I don't know of anyone there who shipped a product using an xTalk before being hired to make an xTalk. Obviously, that's exactly what we want in an engine team, C++ engineers who live and breathe deep computer science. But from time to time it does lend itself toward designs and implementations that look like the work of native C coders rather than native xTalkers. These strengths give us a beautiful engine, and an IDE that could probably benefit from some trimming. xTalk is a funny thing, and it's not easy coming up with a concise rule set for what constitutes good with-the-grain savvy of The xTalk Way. But we know it when we see it. And line numbers that lag behind editor field scrolls may be an example where The Zen of The xTalk Way might produce a smoother solution. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems From andre at andregarzia.com Thu Mar 25 12:50:09 2021 From: andre at andregarzia.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2021 16:50:09 +0000 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259 In-Reply-To: <10886b84-c2a7-657c-91ef-350d7495e9c6@fourthworld.com> References: <10886b84-c2a7-657c-91ef-350d7495e9c6@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: > On 25 Mar 2021, at 14:58, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > Defaulting to HTTP for customer-facing systems simplifies a lot of decision-making, and since most of the rest of the world makes the same choice at least we're in good company. :) Also, HTTP/HTTPS are usually enabled on firewalls, makes your life a lot easier when you don?t need to tell your user that they need to fiddle with firewall rules. From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Mar 25 13:01:44 2021 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2021 10:01:44 -0700 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <622b950b-5e44-9919-68ad-7b8c993447ac@fourthworld.com> Andre Garzia wrote: >> On 25 Mar 2021, at 14:58, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> >> Defaulting to HTTP for customer-facing systems simplifies a >> lot of decision-making, and since most of the rest of the >> world makes the same choice at least we're in good company. :) > > Also, HTTP/HTTPS are usually enabled on firewalls, makes your > life a lot easier when you don?t need to tell your user that > they need to fiddle with firewall rules. Ah yes, I remember the good ol' days when Internet P2P seemed promising, shut down once everyone began reconsider the implications of expanding the attack surface with open ports... -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Mar 25 13:52:26 2021 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2021 12:52:26 -0500 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259 In-Reply-To: References: <81B64B3D-3FE7-4A99-BEEB-B8C57AEF5F8D@iotecdigital.com> <17862136308.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <7eae18cf-ab98-f173-5854-4c30690e0ba2@hyperactivesw.com> <8b30ac04-63f5-a8ca-a1e7-98560c86261a@hyperactivesw.com> <76BE4E71-0937-43B2-8B41-C913980CF568@m-r-d.de> <13675875-d152-ed30-796d-05f7008f8dd6@hyperactivesw.com> <0832494C-A560-47FF-A140-4D0A765163E6@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: On 3/24/21 5:44 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: > It seems Fetch usesftps:// for both FTPeS (FTP over SSL explicit) and FTPS (FTP over SSL implicit). But it depends on the port number you have entered. > If you keep port 21 then FTPS (FTP over SSL implicit) is used. > If you set the port to 990 then Fetch uses FTPS (FTP over SSL implicit). I tried setting the URL to "ftps" and got "tsneterr: (7) Failed to connect to hyperactivesw.com port 990: Operation timed out." So I removed "use_ssl" from the login array but still got the same error. Apparently TSNet uses port 990 if the URL is "ftps". If I continue to use only "ftp" and "use_ssl" then it works but I am not sure whether the connection is actually encrypted or not. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Mar 25 13:55:35 2021 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2021 17:55:35 +0000 Subject: Set and get dgData and dgText delay In-Reply-To: <8EA4FB16-572C-4E87-8909-B03818EC0738@starfirelighting.com> References: <8EA4FB16-572C-4E87-8909-B03818EC0738@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: <82223421-8275-48E2-9852-EA61B6C2FCB6@iotecdigital.com> DGText will only contain data for the columns you have defined in the Datagrid properties. If your dgData array keys have no matching columns it will still populate the dgData but dgText will return empty. This is why I avoid using dgText at all anymore. I have also noticed that if one of the row arrays in the dgData is empty then that can bork the data grid. You have to set the dgData to empty to get rid of it. Bob S On Mar 25, 2021, at 5:44 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode > wrote: I have seen this here and there for years, and having nothing to do with dataGrids per se. A handler will fail to run, but will step through in the debugger without issue. This usually resolves, and I never know why. Craig From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Mar 25 13:56:04 2021 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2021 12:56:04 -0500 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259 In-Reply-To: References: <81B64B3D-3FE7-4A99-BEEB-B8C57AEF5F8D@iotecdigital.com> <17862136308.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <7eae18cf-ab98-f173-5854-4c30690e0ba2@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <9fa6f25b-e474-cf4e-6c2f-cec3de87d58b@hyperactivesw.com> On 3/25/21 7:19 AM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode wrote: > Not accepting AppleScript from other apps basically defeats the reason to use AppleScript IMHO? those devs are crazy. I reported the wrong error message. I tried it again and it said "You are unauthorized to use AppleScript." There must be something I need to set up. What I was trying to do when ftp failed was use a nice one-liner: launch with . The built-in LC command uses AppleScript on Mac OS and that's when I got the error. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From sean at pidigital.co.uk Thu Mar 25 14:05:35 2021 From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Sean Cole (Pi)) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2021 18:05:35 +0000 Subject: Problem with Script Editor in LC 9.6.2 (rc3) In-Reply-To: <526b277f-1a6c-b92e-1fa9-557da53cc691@fourthworld.com> References: <526b277f-1a6c-b92e-1fa9-557da53cc691@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: RichardG, That was a very long way of not answering the question. Very insightful regarding the DG though. :) It also went a long way of assuming the skill levels of the audience. Some of us are not limited to xTalk level. I understand C++ and why Trevor likely coded the DG using such. My question, just to reestablish, was what on Earth could possibly complicate the scrolling of the line-numbers in sync with the main 'field'? Very occasionally the numbers freeze altogether until a click in the editor which is an interesting aside and only partly related to the question. I never notice a lag between the two areas. 32-bit I feel is neither here nor there in relation to the syncing or imperceivable lag, especially for the SE. Looking on github reveals that the majority of the code for the SE are indeed, as suspected, written in livecodescript (xTalk ;)) by BHall mostly, rather than CPP. And, as suspected, really quite simple and unconvoluted as they can get. Barely anything to become difficult in fixing for Henry's listed issue. revsecommoneditorbehavior.livecodescript holds the key, lines 2658-2721 most likely. Sean On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 at 16:47, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Sean Cole wrote: > > > On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 at 21:45, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > > >> I believe it may be related to the complicated way the line > >> number field is kept in sync. > > > > Quick question. Why would the line number field be complicated? I > > can?t imagine anything that would necessitate making it complicated. > > Numbers and break points. That?s all it handles, right? > > > It's easy to describe anything in terms that make it sound simple, but > whether a task is *actually* simple depends on many things. > > It's equally an oversimplification to arbitrarily divide the world into > two types of programmers, xTalkers and C coders, but that won't stop me > from indulging in it here : > > > If we look at text editors made by C coders, they generally only render > the line numbers visible on screen given the current scroll position. > But they do everything with lower-level/computer-oriented thinking, with > lineto and moveto and stringAt (yes, the Inside Macintosh references > there show my age, but you know what I mean), so for them these types of > calculations are second-nature and not considered tedious at all, it's > just how things are done. > > xTalkers, by virtue of choosing a language that is not only high-level > but among the very few that directly incorporate GUI controls as > inherent language elements, think differently. To us we put text into a > field and set the scroll as we like and let the engine figure out the > details. > > > Which is "best" is a topic that can be hotly debated, and was here on > this list several years ago in a thread on making text editors in LC. > > One of the participants in that thread was Jeff Massung, who'd made a > very nice Erlang editor in LC. In his view, IIRC, it was wasteful to ask > the engine to render thousands of lines of line numbers if the script > being displayed was much shorter. He felt that the "right" approach > would be to do as C programmers do, to dynamically calculate which line > numbers should be visible and dynamically populate the line number list > with only those on each scrollBarDrag. > > Others, including myself, felt that using xTalk objects as xTalkers are > accustomed to using them was not a mistake at all, but actually quite > with-the-grain for xTalk work. Even if we're asking the engine to work > harder, we're doing it only once up front, relying on the engine's good > buffering to make scrolling throughout the rest of the session simpler. > > > It's worth noting that the excellent DataGrid relies on > dynamically-calculated scrolling, but even more worthy to note WHY: > > It's not because scrolling the DG is made any faster (observably it isn't). > > It's because the performance impact of dynamically-calculated scrolling > is a NECESSARY tradeoff to cover the sometimes-large number of records > it's asked to display. LC uses 32-bit coordinate addressing, which is > more than adequate for most things we render since it gives us about 30 > feet of drawing space, far bigger than any monitor. But if you try to > place tens of thousands of groups nested within a scrolling group, > you'll quickly discover what happens when you exceed 32-bit coordinate > space. :) > > So Trevor did the tedious work of providing a profoundly flexible > DataGrid, where for the relatively low cost of a modest performance hit > during scrolls we can effortlessly display even vast numbers of records, > by only actually rendering those on screen at any given time. > > But the 32-bit coordinate space only applies to controls, not the > contents within text fields, so.... > > > Back to the LC Script Editor, truth be told it's been so long since I > donned my pith helmet to dive into its code jungle that I'm not in a > position to speak authoritatively on how it's constructed. > > But we can observe (sadly, without much effort) a lag between scrolling > the script field and the subsequent update of the line number list. In > some cases, depending on platform and script length, this lag is more > easily seen than on others. > > This suggests that there's a lot more going on with the SE's line number > update than just setting its scroll to match the editor field's. > > Indeed, given the variance of the lag it would seem it's not updated > directly at all, but perhaps via "send". > > > It wouldn't be appropriate to say the LC implementation is necessarily > "wrong" or even "bad". It's a deeply complicated layout with a lot of > updates to manage, and given the vast scope of its design ambitions it's > hard to say what one "should" do there. > > But it is safe to observe that it was written by people who cut their > teeth on languages more lower-level than xTalk. Aside from Monte and > Kevin, I don't know of anyone there who shipped a product using an xTalk > before being hired to make an xTalk. > > Obviously, that's exactly what we want in an engine team, C++ engineers > who live and breathe deep computer science. > > But from time to time it does lend itself toward designs and > implementations that look like the work of native C coders rather than > native xTalkers. These strengths give us a beautiful engine, and an IDE > that could probably benefit from some trimming. > > > xTalk is a funny thing, and it's not easy coming up with a concise rule > set for what constitutes good with-the-grain savvy of The xTalk Way. > > But we know it when we see it. And line numbers that lag behind editor > field scrolls may be an example where The Zen of The xTalk Way might > produce a smoother solution. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From sean at pidigital.co.uk Thu Mar 25 14:11:34 2021 From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Sean Cole (Pi)) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2021 18:11:34 +0000 Subject: Set and get dgData and dgText delay In-Reply-To: <82223421-8275-48E2-9852-EA61B6C2FCB6@iotecdigital.com> References: <8EA4FB16-572C-4E87-8909-B03818EC0738@starfirelighting.com> <82223421-8275-48E2-9852-EA61B6C2FCB6@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: Thanks Bob, but the columns are defined, both in my test stack and the project stack. It gets filled once the scripts have finished running, so it can't be that which is the issue in this instance. But thanks once again for your input. Sean On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 at 17:55, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > DGText will only contain data for the columns you have defined in the > Datagrid properties. If your dgData array keys have no matching columns it > will still populate the dgData but dgText will return empty. This is why I > avoid using dgText at all anymore. > > I have also noticed that if one of the row arrays in the dgData is empty > then that can bork the data grid. You have to set the dgData to empty to > get rid of it. > > Bob S > > > On Mar 25, 2021, at 5:44 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> > wrote: > > I have seen this here and there for years, and having nothing to do with > dataGrids per se. > > A handler will fail to run, but will step through in the debugger without > issue. This usually resolves, and I never know why. > > Craig > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Mar 25 14:44:10 2021 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2021 11:44:10 -0700 Subject: Problem with Script Editor in LC 9.6.2 (rc3) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5c929b42-3640-4b2b-5364-e68bccd4966f@fourthworld.com> Sean Cole wrote: > RichardG, Feel free to use simply "Richard" if you like. > That was a very long way of not answering the question. Very > insightful regarding the DG though. :) > It also went a long way of assuming the skill levels of the audience. > Some of us are not limited to xTalk level. Where I wrote that it's "an oversimplification to arbitrarily divide the world into two types of programmers, xTalkers and C coders", what I meant to say is that it's an oversimplification to arbitrarily divide the world into two types of programmers, xTalkers and C coders. Sorry I was unable to make that clearer. > I understand C++ and why Trevor likely coded the DG using such. My writing was even worse than I'd thought. Having once hired Trevor to write some C++ for a project many years ago, I'm well aware of the breadth of his skillset. What I had attempted to illustrate there had nothing to do with coding styles, but with a merely pragmatic tradeoff necessary for certain uses of LC group objects. > My question, just to reestablish, was what on Earth could possibly > complicate the scrolling of the line-numbers in sync with the main > 'field'? Gave it my best shot. TL/DL: 1. I don't specifically know what the LC SE is doing there. 2. I don't generally believe it makes sense to describe anything as simple until we take the time, however much patience that requires, to understand the goals of the design. > Very occasionally the numbers freeze altogether until a click in > the editor which is an interesting aside and only partly related > to the question. I never notice a lag between the two areas. That lag you just described awaiting the click? That. That's one of the observable lags I'm referring to. > 32-bit I feel is neither here nor there in relation to the syncing > or imperceivable lag, especially for the SE. Agreed, which is why I wrote "the 32-bit coordinate space only applies to controls, not the contents within text fields". Coordinate space was only relevant in exploring why the DG uses dynamic scroll updates, contrasting the DGs architectural decisions with those used to populate line number fields, where such a choice is not necessary but may reflect styles of habit. > Looking on github reveals that the majority of the code for the SE are > indeed, as suspected, written in livecodescript (xTalk ;)) by BHall > mostly, rather than CPP. And, as suspected, really quite simple and > unconvoluted as they can get. Barely anything to become difficult in > fixing for Henry's listed issue. > revsecommoneditorbehavior.livecodescript holds the key, lines > 2658-2721 most likely. Looks like you've found your answer. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Mar 25 15:22:38 2021 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2021 14:22:38 -0500 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259 In-Reply-To: References: <81B64B3D-3FE7-4A99-BEEB-B8C57AEF5F8D@iotecdigital.com> <17862136308.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <7eae18cf-ab98-f173-5854-4c30690e0ba2@hyperactivesw.com> <8b30ac04-63f5-a8ca-a1e7-98560c86261a@hyperactivesw.com> <76BE4E71-0937-43B2-8B41-C913980CF568@m-r-d.de> <13675875-d152-ed30-796d-05f7008f8dd6@hyperactivesw.com> <0832494C-A560-47FF-A140-4D0A765163E6@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <5ac1ea38-e0c6-b0af-9fe8-a54390a1c902@hyperactivesw.com> On 3/25/21 12:52 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > If I continue to use only "ftp" and "use_ssl" then it works but I am not sure whether the > connection is actually encrypted or not. Just to complete this little journey, I think I'm in business. I use "ftp" in the URL which defaults to port 21, and tsnet "use_ssl". The server response says: AUTH TLS OK. It also says an unidentified security scheme is not implemented but then goes ahead and uses SSL anyway. This is what came back: Transfer complete with server response code 226 220---------- Welcome to Pure-FTPd [privsep] [TLS] ---------- 220-You are user number 5 of 50 allowed. 220-Local time is now 14:57. Server port: 21. 220-This is a private system - No anonymous login 220-IPv6 connections are also welcome on this server. 220 You will be disconnected after 15 minutes of inactivity. 500 This security scheme is not implemented 234 AUTH TLS OK. 331 User OK. Password required 230 OK. Current restricted directory is / 200 PBSZ=0 200 Data protection level set to "private" 257 "/" is your current location 250 OK. Current directory is /public_html 250 OK. Current directory is /public_html/ 250 OK. Current directory is /public_html// 229 Extended Passive mode OK (|||44775|) 200 TYPE is now 8-bit binary 150 Accepted data connection 226-File successfully transferred 226 0.140 seconds (measured here), 345.46 Kbytes per second So my little upload tool, inspired by Andre's book, is now working and will save me maybe 5 seconds and three clicks about once a month. :) But there is some satisfaction in that. As for using AppleScript, Fetch has removed AppleScript support in its latest release. The docs say it hopes to bring it back in the future. I suspect conflicts with Big Sur or something similar. But that's why I wasn't "authorized." -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Thu Mar 25 15:33:56 2021 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2021 20:33:56 +0100 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259 In-Reply-To: <5ac1ea38-e0c6-b0af-9fe8-a54390a1c902@hyperactivesw.com> References: <81B64B3D-3FE7-4A99-BEEB-B8C57AEF5F8D@iotecdigital.com> <17862136308.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <7eae18cf-ab98-f173-5854-4c30690e0ba2@hyperactivesw.com> <8b30ac04-63f5-a8ca-a1e7-98560c86261a@hyperactivesw.com> <76BE4E71-0937-43B2-8B41-C913980CF568@m-r-d.de> <13675875-d152-ed30-796d-05f7008f8dd6@hyperactivesw.com> <0832494C-A560-47FF-A140-4D0A765163E6@m-r-d.de> <5ac1ea38-e0c6-b0af-9fe8-a54390a1c902@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <5D716E45-F8F9-4337-AD8B-EFCDD0E4324A@m-r-d.de> Jacque, if you use ftps:// and enable use_ssl then the mode is 'FTP over SSL implicit'. If your FTP Server does not support this mode, then you get an error. So it seems your server does only support FTPS explicit and not implicit FTPS implicit is not very common. Most shared hosts support ftp/sftp and ftps explicit. Maybe you missed my comment yesterday. tsNet decides which FTP mode is used just by the url prefix. There is no need to change any port. This is automatically handled by tsNET URL prefix use_ssl Mode ftp:// false FTP ftp://. true FTPeS (ftp over SSL explicit) sometimes also called FTPS explicit ftps:// true FTPS (ftp over SSL implicit) FTPS implicit - Matthias Rebbe Life Is Too Short For Boring Code > Am 25.03.2021 um 20:22 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode : > > On 3/25/21 12:52 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >> If I continue to use only "ftp" and "use_ssl" then it works but I am not sure whether the connection is actually encrypted or not. > > Just to complete this little journey, I think I'm in business. I use "ftp" in the URL which defaults to port 21, and tsnet "use_ssl". The server response says: AUTH TLS OK. It also says an unidentified security scheme is not implemented but then goes ahead and uses SSL anyway. This is what came back: > > Transfer complete with server response code 226 > 220---------- Welcome to Pure-FTPd [privsep] [TLS] ---------- > 220-You are user number 5 of 50 allowed. > 220-Local time is now 14:57. Server port: 21. > 220-This is a private system - No anonymous login > 220-IPv6 connections are also welcome on this server. > 220 You will be disconnected after 15 minutes of inactivity. > 500 This security scheme is not implemented > 234 AUTH TLS OK. > 331 User OK. Password required > 230 OK. Current restricted directory is / > 200 PBSZ=0 > 200 Data protection level set to "private" > 257 "/" is your current location > 250 OK. Current directory is /public_html > 250 OK. Current directory is /public_html/ > 250 OK. Current directory is /public_html// > 229 Extended Passive mode OK (|||44775|) > 200 TYPE is now 8-bit binary > 150 Accepted data connection > 226-File successfully transferred > 226 0.140 seconds (measured here), 345.46 Kbytes per second > > So my little upload tool, inspired by Andre's book, is now working and will save me maybe 5 seconds and three clicks about once a month. :) But there is some satisfaction in that. > > As for using AppleScript, Fetch has removed AppleScript support in its latest release. The docs say it hopes to bring it back in the future. I suspect conflicts with Big Sur or something similar. But that's why I wasn't "authorized." > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From scott at elementarysoftware.com Thu Mar 25 16:01:15 2021 From: scott at elementarysoftware.com (scott at elementarysoftware.com) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2021 13:01:15 -0700 Subject: name of web page Message-ID: When using livecode server scripting inside the html of a web page, is there a way to determine the file name of that .lc web page (using livecode scripting)? -- Scott Morrow Elementary Software (Now with 20% less chalk dust!) web https://elementarysoftware.com/ email scott at elementarysoftware.com booth 1-360-734-4701 ------------------------------------------------------ From jeejeestudio at gmail.com Thu Mar 25 16:06:23 2021 From: jeejeestudio at gmail.com (JeeJeeStudio) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2021 21:06:23 +0100 Subject: Android commissions (JeeJeeStudio) In-Reply-To: <27B7CC08-9BB3-444A-AEAB-8B7D2B4FB3C8@midwestcoastmedia.com> References: <27B7CC08-9BB3-444A-AEAB-8B7D2B4FB3C8@midwestcoastmedia.com> Message-ID: <0f8905ec-d306-9d3f-146e-90cc195e8fd2@gmail.com> Thank you. Done! Op 20-3-2021 om 04:46 schreef Andrew at MidWest Coast Media via use-livecode: >> Note that this can take a long while, perhaps a very long while > I?m just excited to increase my earning potential by 15% in 6 months at the 2 app stores, all by doing absolutely nothing myself (thanks Epic Games for scaring big tech!). > > After having a paid app in the stores for a few years I just released my first mobile project with In-app purchases this month so I plan on nudging this along through Bugzilla. Feel free to add yourself as a CC to the bug! > [shameless plug] > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23116 > > ?Andrew Bell > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Thu Mar 25 16:13:12 2021 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2021 21:13:12 +0100 Subject: name of web page In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02E38924-1EDB-4F54-B147-8BD2D930783D@m-r-d.de> Scott, do you want to get the filename of the script that is executing? Then put the filename of me returns the name of the lc script file including the complete path e.g. /home/xxxxxxxx/public_html//scott/pagename.lc - Matthias Rebbe Life Is Too Short For Boring Code > Am 25.03.2021 um 21:01 schrieb scott--- via use-livecode : > > is there a way to determine the file name of that .lc web page (using livecode scripting)? From hlowe at me.com Thu Mar 25 17:07:50 2021 From: hlowe at me.com (HENRY LOWE) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2021 14:07:50 -0700 Subject: Problem with Script Editor in LC 9.6.2 (rc3) In-Reply-To: References: <526b277f-1a6c-b92e-1fa9-557da53cc691@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <671196FD-A236-4CA6-B4E5-8F5DCD25D2A5@me.com> On further investigation this appears to be a problem with any LC scrolling text field, not just the Script Editor. Please try the following and let me know what you observe: 1. Create a new stack (e.g. 1024 x 768) 2. Add a scrolling text field and resize the field to fill the card. 3. Paste enough text (multiple pastes of the same text will do) into the field so that the vertical scroll bar is activated. 4. Place in run mode. Click before the first text character in the field 5. Drag-Select text downwards (hold mouse button down while dragging down over text) towards the bottom of the field until the field begins to auto-scroll 6. Let go of the mouse - the field continues to autoscroll until it reaches the end of the text 7. LC is unresponsive during this automatic scrolling 8. On the Mac the Activity Monitor app shows LC consuming 100% of CPU 9. This continues for 1-2 minutes then LC unfreezes. In a large script I am ?locked out? of LC for 10-15 mins as the field autoscrolls down. This may be Mac Big Sur specific, so hopefully someone can test it on that platform. Looks like a bug to me. Henry > On Mar 25, 2021, at 11:05 AM, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode wrote: > > RichardG, > That was a very long way of not answering the question. Very insightful > regarding the DG though. :) > It also went a long way of assuming the skill levels of the audience. Some > of us are not limited to xTalk level. I understand C++ and why Trevor > likely coded the DG using such. > > My question, just to reestablish, was what on Earth could possibly > complicate the scrolling of the line-numbers in sync with the main 'field'? > Very occasionally the numbers freeze altogether until a click in the editor > which is an interesting aside and only partly related to the question. I > never notice a lag between the two areas. 32-bit I feel is neither here nor > there in relation to the syncing or imperceivable lag, especially for the > SE. > > Looking on github reveals that the majority of the code for the SE are > indeed, as suspected, written in livecodescript (xTalk ;)) by BHall mostly, > rather than CPP. And, as suspected, really quite simple and unconvoluted as > they can get. Barely anything to become difficult in fixing for Henry's > listed issue. revsecommoneditorbehavior.livecodescript holds the key, lines > 2658-2721 most likely. > > Sean > > > On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 at 16:47, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> Sean Cole wrote: >> >>> On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 at 21:45, Richard Gaskin wrote: >>> >>>> I believe it may be related to the complicated way the line >>>> number field is kept in sync. >>> >>> Quick question. Why would the line number field be complicated? I >>> can?t imagine anything that would necessitate making it complicated. >>> Numbers and break points. That?s all it handles, right? >> >> >> It's easy to describe anything in terms that make it sound simple, but >> whether a task is *actually* simple depends on many things. >> >> It's equally an oversimplification to arbitrarily divide the world into >> two types of programmers, xTalkers and C coders, but that won't stop me >> from indulging in it here : >> >> >> If we look at text editors made by C coders, they generally only render >> the line numbers visible on screen given the current scroll position. >> But they do everything with lower-level/computer-oriented thinking, with >> lineto and moveto and stringAt (yes, the Inside Macintosh references >> there show my age, but you know what I mean), so for them these types of >> calculations are second-nature and not considered tedious at all, it's >> just how things are done. >> >> xTalkers, by virtue of choosing a language that is not only high-level >> but among the very few that directly incorporate GUI controls as >> inherent language elements, think differently. To us we put text into a >> field and set the scroll as we like and let the engine figure out the >> details. >> >> >> Which is "best" is a topic that can be hotly debated, and was here on >> this list several years ago in a thread on making text editors in LC. >> >> One of the participants in that thread was Jeff Massung, who'd made a >> very nice Erlang editor in LC. In his view, IIRC, it was wasteful to ask >> the engine to render thousands of lines of line numbers if the script >> being displayed was much shorter. He felt that the "right" approach >> would be to do as C programmers do, to dynamically calculate which line >> numbers should be visible and dynamically populate the line number list >> with only those on each scrollBarDrag. >> >> Others, including myself, felt that using xTalk objects as xTalkers are >> accustomed to using them was not a mistake at all, but actually quite >> with-the-grain for xTalk work. Even if we're asking the engine to work >> harder, we're doing it only once up front, relying on the engine's good >> buffering to make scrolling throughout the rest of the session simpler. >> >> >> It's worth noting that the excellent DataGrid relies on >> dynamically-calculated scrolling, but even more worthy to note WHY: >> >> It's not because scrolling the DG is made any faster (observably it isn't). >> >> It's because the performance impact of dynamically-calculated scrolling >> is a NECESSARY tradeoff to cover the sometimes-large number of records >> it's asked to display. LC uses 32-bit coordinate addressing, which is >> more than adequate for most things we render since it gives us about 30 >> feet of drawing space, far bigger than any monitor. But if you try to >> place tens of thousands of groups nested within a scrolling group, >> you'll quickly discover what happens when you exceed 32-bit coordinate >> space. :) >> >> So Trevor did the tedious work of providing a profoundly flexible >> DataGrid, where for the relatively low cost of a modest performance hit >> during scrolls we can effortlessly display even vast numbers of records, >> by only actually rendering those on screen at any given time. >> >> But the 32-bit coordinate space only applies to controls, not the >> contents within text fields, so.... >> >> >> Back to the LC Script Editor, truth be told it's been so long since I >> donned my pith helmet to dive into its code jungle that I'm not in a >> position to speak authoritatively on how it's constructed. >> >> But we can observe (sadly, without much effort) a lag between scrolling >> the script field and the subsequent update of the line number list. In >> some cases, depending on platform and script length, this lag is more >> easily seen than on others. >> >> This suggests that there's a lot more going on with the SE's line number >> update than just setting its scroll to match the editor field's. >> >> Indeed, given the variance of the lag it would seem it's not updated >> directly at all, but perhaps via "send". >> >> >> It wouldn't be appropriate to say the LC implementation is necessarily >> "wrong" or even "bad". It's a deeply complicated layout with a lot of >> updates to manage, and given the vast scope of its design ambitions it's >> hard to say what one "should" do there. >> >> But it is safe to observe that it was written by people who cut their >> teeth on languages more lower-level than xTalk. Aside from Monte and >> Kevin, I don't know of anyone there who shipped a product using an xTalk >> before being hired to make an xTalk. >> >> Obviously, that's exactly what we want in an engine team, C++ engineers >> who live and breathe deep computer science. >> >> But from time to time it does lend itself toward designs and >> implementations that look like the work of native C coders rather than >> native xTalkers. These strengths give us a beautiful engine, and an IDE >> that could probably benefit from some trimming. >> >> >> xTalk is a funny thing, and it's not easy coming up with a concise rule >> set for what constitutes good with-the-grain savvy of The xTalk Way. >> >> But we know it when we see it. And line numbers that lag behind editor >> field scrolls may be an example where The Zen of The xTalk Way might >> produce a smoother solution. >> >> -- >> Richard Gaskin >> Fourth World Systems >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From tore.nilsen at me.com Thu Mar 25 18:32:37 2021 From: tore.nilsen at me.com (Tore Nilsen) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2021 23:32:37 +0100 Subject: Problem with Script Editor in LC 9.6.2 (rc3) In-Reply-To: <671196FD-A236-4CA6-B4E5-8F5DCD25D2A5@me.com> References: <526b277f-1a6c-b92e-1fa9-557da53cc691@fourthworld.com> <671196FD-A236-4CA6-B4E5-8F5DCD25D2A5@me.com> Message-ID: <4393E3E2-DE18-46D6-AD50-450774F89832@me.com> I have followed your recipe and I can confirm that this is a problem also with ordinary scrolling fields in LC 9.6.2 (rc3). It does not seem to be a problem in LC 9.6.2 (rc1). Best regards Tore Nilsen > 25. mar. 2021 kl. 22:07 skrev HENRY LOWE via use-livecode : > > On further investigation this appears to be a problem with any LC scrolling text field, not just the Script Editor. > > Please try the following and let me know what you observe: > > 1. Create a new stack (e.g. 1024 x 768) > > 2. Add a scrolling text field and resize the field to fill the card. > > 3. Paste enough text (multiple pastes of the same text will do) into the field so that the vertical scroll bar is activated. > > 4. Place in run mode. Click before the first text character in the field > > 5. Drag-Select text downwards (hold mouse button down while dragging down over text) towards the bottom of the field until the field begins to auto-scroll > > 6. Let go of the mouse - the field continues to autoscroll until it reaches the end of the text > > 7. LC is unresponsive during this automatic scrolling > > 8. On the Mac the Activity Monitor app shows LC consuming 100% of CPU > > 9. This continues for 1-2 minutes then LC unfreezes. > > In a large script I am ?locked out? of LC for 10-15 mins as the field autoscrolls down. > > This may be Mac Big Sur specific, so hopefully someone can test it on that platform. > > Looks like a bug to me. > > Henry > >> On Mar 25, 2021, at 11:05 AM, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode wrote: >> >> RichardG, >> That was a very long way of not answering the question. Very insightful >> regarding the DG though. :) >> It also went a long way of assuming the skill levels of the audience. Some >> of us are not limited to xTalk level. I understand C++ and why Trevor >> likely coded the DG using such. >> >> My question, just to reestablish, was what on Earth could possibly >> complicate the scrolling of the line-numbers in sync with the main 'field'? >> Very occasionally the numbers freeze altogether until a click in the editor >> which is an interesting aside and only partly related to the question. I >> never notice a lag between the two areas. 32-bit I feel is neither here nor >> there in relation to the syncing or imperceivable lag, especially for the >> SE. >> >> Looking on github reveals that the majority of the code for the SE are >> indeed, as suspected, written in livecodescript (xTalk ;)) by BHall mostly, >> rather than CPP. And, as suspected, really quite simple and unconvoluted as >> they can get. Barely anything to become difficult in fixing for Henry's >> listed issue. revsecommoneditorbehavior.livecodescript holds the key, lines >> 2658-2721 most likely. >> >> Sean >> >> >> On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 at 16:47, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >>> Sean Cole wrote: >>> >>>> On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 at 21:45, Richard Gaskin wrote: >>>> >>>>> I believe it may be related to the complicated way the line >>>>> number field is kept in sync. >>>> >>>> Quick question. Why would the line number field be complicated? I >>>> can?t imagine anything that would necessitate making it complicated. >>>> Numbers and break points. That?s all it handles, right? >>> >>> >>> It's easy to describe anything in terms that make it sound simple, but >>> whether a task is *actually* simple depends on many things. >>> >>> It's equally an oversimplification to arbitrarily divide the world into >>> two types of programmers, xTalkers and C coders, but that won't stop me >>> from indulging in it here : >>> >>> >>> If we look at text editors made by C coders, they generally only render >>> the line numbers visible on screen given the current scroll position. >>> But they do everything with lower-level/computer-oriented thinking, with >>> lineto and moveto and stringAt (yes, the Inside Macintosh references >>> there show my age, but you know what I mean), so for them these types of >>> calculations are second-nature and not considered tedious at all, it's >>> just how things are done. >>> >>> xTalkers, by virtue of choosing a language that is not only high-level >>> but among the very few that directly incorporate GUI controls as >>> inherent language elements, think differently. To us we put text into a >>> field and set the scroll as we like and let the engine figure out the >>> details. >>> >>> >>> Which is "best" is a topic that can be hotly debated, and was here on >>> this list several years ago in a thread on making text editors in LC. >>> >>> One of the participants in that thread was Jeff Massung, who'd made a >>> very nice Erlang editor in LC. In his view, IIRC, it was wasteful to ask >>> the engine to render thousands of lines of line numbers if the script >>> being displayed was much shorter. He felt that the "right" approach >>> would be to do as C programmers do, to dynamically calculate which line >>> numbers should be visible and dynamically populate the line number list >>> with only those on each scrollBarDrag. >>> >>> Others, including myself, felt that using xTalk objects as xTalkers are >>> accustomed to using them was not a mistake at all, but actually quite >>> with-the-grain for xTalk work. Even if we're asking the engine to work >>> harder, we're doing it only once up front, relying on the engine's good >>> buffering to make scrolling throughout the rest of the session simpler. >>> >>> >>> It's worth noting that the excellent DataGrid relies on >>> dynamically-calculated scrolling, but even more worthy to note WHY: >>> >>> It's not because scrolling the DG is made any faster (observably it isn't). >>> >>> It's because the performance impact of dynamically-calculated scrolling >>> is a NECESSARY tradeoff to cover the sometimes-large number of records >>> it's asked to display. LC uses 32-bit coordinate addressing, which is >>> more than adequate for most things we render since it gives us about 30 >>> feet of drawing space, far bigger than any monitor. But if you try to >>> place tens of thousands of groups nested within a scrolling group, >>> you'll quickly discover what happens when you exceed 32-bit coordinate >>> space. :) >>> >>> So Trevor did the tedious work of providing a profoundly flexible >>> DataGrid, where for the relatively low cost of a modest performance hit >>> during scrolls we can effortlessly display even vast numbers of records, >>> by only actually rendering those on screen at any given time. >>> >>> But the 32-bit coordinate space only applies to controls, not the >>> contents within text fields, so.... >>> >>> >>> Back to the LC Script Editor, truth be told it's been so long since I >>> donned my pith helmet to dive into its code jungle that I'm not in a >>> position to speak authoritatively on how it's constructed. >>> >>> But we can observe (sadly, without much effort) a lag between scrolling >>> the script field and the subsequent update of the line number list. In >>> some cases, depending on platform and script length, this lag is more >>> easily seen than on others. >>> >>> This suggests that there's a lot more going on with the SE's line number >>> update than just setting its scroll to match the editor field's. >>> >>> Indeed, given the variance of the lag it would seem it's not updated >>> directly at all, but perhaps via "send". >>> >>> >>> It wouldn't be appropriate to say the LC implementation is necessarily >>> "wrong" or even "bad". It's a deeply complicated layout with a lot of >>> updates to manage, and given the vast scope of its design ambitions it's >>> hard to say what one "should" do there. >>> >>> But it is safe to observe that it was written by people who cut their >>> teeth on languages more lower-level than xTalk. Aside from Monte and >>> Kevin, I don't know of anyone there who shipped a product using an xTalk >>> before being hired to make an xTalk. >>> >>> Obviously, that's exactly what we want in an engine team, C++ engineers >>> who live and breathe deep computer science. >>> >>> But from time to time it does lend itself toward designs and >>> implementations that look like the work of native C coders rather than >>> native xTalkers. These strengths give us a beautiful engine, and an IDE >>> that could probably benefit from some trimming. >>> >>> >>> xTalk is a funny thing, and it's not easy coming up with a concise rule >>> set for what constitutes good with-the-grain savvy of The xTalk Way. >>> >>> But we know it when we see it. And line numbers that lag behind editor >>> field scrolls may be an example where The Zen of The xTalk Way might >>> produce a smoother solution. >>> >>> -- >>> Richard Gaskin >>> Fourth World Systems >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From iphonelagi at gmail.com Thu Mar 25 19:11:15 2021 From: iphonelagi at gmail.com (Lagi Pittas) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2021 23:11:15 +0000 Subject: Problem with Script Editor in LC 9.6.2 (rc3) In-Reply-To: <671196FD-A236-4CA6-B4E5-8F5DCD25D2A5@me.com> References: <526b277f-1a6c-b92e-1fa9-557da53cc691@fourthworld.com> <671196FD-A236-4CA6-B4E5-8F5DCD25D2A5@me.com> Message-ID: HI Henry, Tried it on windows LC 9.6.2 RC2 and it works fine. I still have the problem of very laggy text editor for a machine with 16G of Ram and SSD, there is no scrolling problem on a greater than 5000 line script so it looks like it's big Turd this time ;-) Lagi On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 at 21:09, HENRY LOWE via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On further investigation this appears to be a problem with any LC > scrolling text field, not just the Script Editor. > > Please try the following and let me know what you observe: > > 1. Create a new stack (e.g. 1024 x 768) > > 2. Add a scrolling text field and resize the field to fill the card. > > 3. Paste enough text (multiple pastes of the same text will do) into the > field so that the vertical scroll bar is activated. > > 4. Place in run mode. Click before the first text character in the field > > 5. Drag-Select text downwards (hold mouse button down while dragging down > over text) towards the bottom of the field until the field begins to > auto-scroll > > 6. Let go of the mouse - the field continues to autoscroll until it > reaches the end of the text > > 7. LC is unresponsive during this automatic scrolling > > 8. On the Mac the Activity Monitor app shows LC consuming 100% of CPU > > 9. This continues for 1-2 minutes then LC unfreezes. > > In a large script I am ?locked out? of LC for 10-15 mins as the field > autoscrolls down. > > This may be Mac Big Sur specific, so hopefully someone can test it on that > platform. > > Looks like a bug to me. > > Henry > > > On Mar 25, 2021, at 11:05 AM, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > RichardG, > > That was a very long way of not answering the question. Very insightful > > regarding the DG though. :) > > It also went a long way of assuming the skill levels of the audience. > Some > > of us are not limited to xTalk level. I understand C++ and why Trevor > > likely coded the DG using such. > > > > My question, just to reestablish, was what on Earth could possibly > > complicate the scrolling of the line-numbers in sync with the main > 'field'? > > Very occasionally the numbers freeze altogether until a click in the > editor > > which is an interesting aside and only partly related to the question. I > > never notice a lag between the two areas. 32-bit I feel is neither here > nor > > there in relation to the syncing or imperceivable lag, especially for the > > SE. > > > > Looking on github reveals that the majority of the code for the SE are > > indeed, as suspected, written in livecodescript (xTalk ;)) by BHall > mostly, > > rather than CPP. And, as suspected, really quite simple and unconvoluted > as > > they can get. Barely anything to become difficult in fixing for Henry's > > listed issue. revsecommoneditorbehavior.livecodescript holds the key, > lines > > 2658-2721 most likely. > > > > Sean > > > > > > On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 at 16:47, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > >> Sean Cole wrote: > >> > >>> On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 at 21:45, Richard Gaskin wrote: > >>> > >>>> I believe it may be related to the complicated way the line > >>>> number field is kept in sync. > >>> > >>> Quick question. Why would the line number field be complicated? I > >>> can?t imagine anything that would necessitate making it complicated. > >>> Numbers and break points. That?s all it handles, right? > >> > >> > >> It's easy to describe anything in terms that make it sound simple, but > >> whether a task is *actually* simple depends on many things. > >> > >> It's equally an oversimplification to arbitrarily divide the world into > >> two types of programmers, xTalkers and C coders, but that won't stop me > >> from indulging in it here : > >> > >> > >> If we look at text editors made by C coders, they generally only render > >> the line numbers visible on screen given the current scroll position. > >> But they do everything with lower-level/computer-oriented thinking, with > >> lineto and moveto and stringAt (yes, the Inside Macintosh references > >> there show my age, but you know what I mean), so for them these types of > >> calculations are second-nature and not considered tedious at all, it's > >> just how things are done. > >> > >> xTalkers, by virtue of choosing a language that is not only high-level > >> but among the very few that directly incorporate GUI controls as > >> inherent language elements, think differently. To us we put text into a > >> field and set the scroll as we like and let the engine figure out the > >> details. > >> > >> > >> Which is "best" is a topic that can be hotly debated, and was here on > >> this list several years ago in a thread on making text editors in LC. > >> > >> One of the participants in that thread was Jeff Massung, who'd made a > >> very nice Erlang editor in LC. In his view, IIRC, it was wasteful to ask > >> the engine to render thousands of lines of line numbers if the script > >> being displayed was much shorter. He felt that the "right" approach > >> would be to do as C programmers do, to dynamically calculate which line > >> numbers should be visible and dynamically populate the line number list > >> with only those on each scrollBarDrag. > >> > >> Others, including myself, felt that using xTalk objects as xTalkers are > >> accustomed to using them was not a mistake at all, but actually quite > >> with-the-grain for xTalk work. Even if we're asking the engine to work > >> harder, we're doing it only once up front, relying on the engine's good > >> buffering to make scrolling throughout the rest of the session simpler. > >> > >> > >> It's worth noting that the excellent DataGrid relies on > >> dynamically-calculated scrolling, but even more worthy to note WHY: > >> > >> It's not because scrolling the DG is made any faster (observably it > isn't). > >> > >> It's because the performance impact of dynamically-calculated scrolling > >> is a NECESSARY tradeoff to cover the sometimes-large number of records > >> it's asked to display. LC uses 32-bit coordinate addressing, which is > >> more than adequate for most things we render since it gives us about 30 > >> feet of drawing space, far bigger than any monitor. But if you try to > >> place tens of thousands of groups nested within a scrolling group, > >> you'll quickly discover what happens when you exceed 32-bit coordinate > >> space. :) > >> > >> So Trevor did the tedious work of providing a profoundly flexible > >> DataGrid, where for the relatively low cost of a modest performance hit > >> during scrolls we can effortlessly display even vast numbers of records, > >> by only actually rendering those on screen at any given time. > >> > >> But the 32-bit coordinate space only applies to controls, not the > >> contents within text fields, so.... > >> > >> > >> Back to the LC Script Editor, truth be told it's been so long since I > >> donned my pith helmet to dive into its code jungle that I'm not in a > >> position to speak authoritatively on how it's constructed. > >> > >> But we can observe (sadly, without much effort) a lag between scrolling > >> the script field and the subsequent update of the line number list. In > >> some cases, depending on platform and script length, this lag is more > >> easily seen than on others. > >> > >> This suggests that there's a lot more going on with the SE's line number > >> update than just setting its scroll to match the editor field's. > >> > >> Indeed, given the variance of the lag it would seem it's not updated > >> directly at all, but perhaps via "send". > >> > >> > >> It wouldn't be appropriate to say the LC implementation is necessarily > >> "wrong" or even "bad". It's a deeply complicated layout with a lot of > >> updates to manage, and given the vast scope of its design ambitions it's > >> hard to say what one "should" do there. > >> > >> But it is safe to observe that it was written by people who cut their > >> teeth on languages more lower-level than xTalk. Aside from Monte and > >> Kevin, I don't know of anyone there who shipped a product using an xTalk > >> before being hired to make an xTalk. > >> > >> Obviously, that's exactly what we want in an engine team, C++ engineers > >> who live and breathe deep computer science. > >> > >> But from time to time it does lend itself toward designs and > >> implementations that look like the work of native C coders rather than > >> native xTalkers. These strengths give us a beautiful engine, and an IDE > >> that could probably benefit from some trimming. > >> > >> > >> xTalk is a funny thing, and it's not easy coming up with a concise rule > >> set for what constitutes good with-the-grain savvy of The xTalk Way. > >> > >> But we know it when we see it. And line numbers that lag behind editor > >> field scrolls may be an example where The Zen of The xTalk Way might > >> produce a smoother solution. > >> > >> -- > >> Richard Gaskin > >> Fourth World Systems > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- KIndest Regards Lagi From james at thehales.id.au Thu Mar 25 19:29:19 2021 From: james at thehales.id.au (james at thehales.id.au) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2021 10:29:19 +1100 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259 Message-ID: <5FBF6BAB-B5E8-4B3E-9A0B-9F1C706C2355@thehales.id.au> I went for a bike ride this morning. Just thought I would add a post under this subject that is no longer really related to the subject anymore. Didn?t want to feel left out ;-) James From hlowe at me.com Thu Mar 25 19:41:14 2021 From: hlowe at me.com (HENRY LOWE) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2021 16:41:14 -0700 Subject: Problem with Script Editor in LC 9.6.2 (rc3) In-Reply-To: References: <526b277f-1a6c-b92e-1fa9-557da53cc691@fourthworld.com> <671196FD-A236-4CA6-B4E5-8F5DCD25D2A5@me.com> Message-ID: Thanks you Lagi, Tore and others. Looks like this is specific to Mac OS Big Sur. I have submitted a bug report: https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23139 Henry > On Mar 25, 2021, at 4:11 PM, Lagi Pittas via use-livecode wrote: > > HI Henry, > > Tried it on windows LC 9.6.2 RC2 and it works fine. > > I still have the problem of very laggy text editor for a machine with 16G > of Ram and SSD, > > there is no scrolling problem on a greater than 5000 line script > > so it looks like it's big Turd this time ;-) > > Lagi > > On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 at 21:09, HENRY LOWE via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> On further investigation this appears to be a problem with any LC >> scrolling text field, not just the Script Editor. >> >> Please try the following and let me know what you observe: >> >> 1. Create a new stack (e.g. 1024 x 768) >> >> 2. Add a scrolling text field and resize the field to fill the card. >> >> 3. Paste enough text (multiple pastes of the same text will do) into the >> field so that the vertical scroll bar is activated. >> >> 4. Place in run mode. Click before the first text character in the field >> >> 5. Drag-Select text downwards (hold mouse button down while dragging down >> over text) towards the bottom of the field until the field begins to >> auto-scroll >> >> 6. Let go of the mouse - the field continues to autoscroll until it >> reaches the end of the text >> >> 7. LC is unresponsive during this automatic scrolling >> >> 8. On the Mac the Activity Monitor app shows LC consuming 100% of CPU >> >> 9. This continues for 1-2 minutes then LC unfreezes. >> >> In a large script I am ?locked out? of LC for 10-15 mins as the field >> autoscrolls down. >> >> This may be Mac Big Sur specific, so hopefully someone can test it on that >> platform. >> >> Looks like a bug to me. >> >> Henry >> >>> On Mar 25, 2021, at 11:05 AM, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> >>> RichardG, >>> That was a very long way of not answering the question. Very insightful >>> regarding the DG though. :) >>> It also went a long way of assuming the skill levels of the audience. >> Some >>> of us are not limited to xTalk level. I understand C++ and why Trevor >>> likely coded the DG using such. >>> >>> My question, just to reestablish, was what on Earth could possibly >>> complicate the scrolling of the line-numbers in sync with the main >> 'field'? >>> Very occasionally the numbers freeze altogether until a click in the >> editor >>> which is an interesting aside and only partly related to the question. I >>> never notice a lag between the two areas. 32-bit I feel is neither here >> nor >>> there in relation to the syncing or imperceivable lag, especially for the >>> SE. >>> >>> Looking on github reveals that the majority of the code for the SE are >>> indeed, as suspected, written in livecodescript (xTalk ;)) by BHall >> mostly, >>> rather than CPP. And, as suspected, really quite simple and unconvoluted >> as >>> they can get. Barely anything to become difficult in fixing for Henry's >>> listed issue. revsecommoneditorbehavior.livecodescript holds the key, >> lines >>> 2658-2721 most likely. >>> >>> Sean >>> >>> >>> On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 at 16:47, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Sean Cole wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 at 21:45, Richard Gaskin wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I believe it may be related to the complicated way the line >>>>>> number field is kept in sync. >>>>> >>>>> Quick question. Why would the line number field be complicated? I >>>>> can?t imagine anything that would necessitate making it complicated. >>>>> Numbers and break points. That?s all it handles, right? >>>> >>>> >>>> It's easy to describe anything in terms that make it sound simple, but >>>> whether a task is *actually* simple depends on many things. >>>> >>>> It's equally an oversimplification to arbitrarily divide the world into >>>> two types of programmers, xTalkers and C coders, but that won't stop me >>>> from indulging in it here : >>>> >>>> >>>> If we look at text editors made by C coders, they generally only render >>>> the line numbers visible on screen given the current scroll position. >>>> But they do everything with lower-level/computer-oriented thinking, with >>>> lineto and moveto and stringAt (yes, the Inside Macintosh references >>>> there show my age, but you know what I mean), so for them these types of >>>> calculations are second-nature and not considered tedious at all, it's >>>> just how things are done. >>>> >>>> xTalkers, by virtue of choosing a language that is not only high-level >>>> but among the very few that directly incorporate GUI controls as >>>> inherent language elements, think differently. To us we put text into a >>>> field and set the scroll as we like and let the engine figure out the >>>> details. >>>> >>>> >>>> Which is "best" is a topic that can be hotly debated, and was here on >>>> this list several years ago in a thread on making text editors in LC. >>>> >>>> One of the participants in that thread was Jeff Massung, who'd made a >>>> very nice Erlang editor in LC. In his view, IIRC, it was wasteful to ask >>>> the engine to render thousands of lines of line numbers if the script >>>> being displayed was much shorter. He felt that the "right" approach >>>> would be to do as C programmers do, to dynamically calculate which line >>>> numbers should be visible and dynamically populate the line number list >>>> with only those on each scrollBarDrag. >>>> >>>> Others, including myself, felt that using xTalk objects as xTalkers are >>>> accustomed to using them was not a mistake at all, but actually quite >>>> with-the-grain for xTalk work. Even if we're asking the engine to work >>>> harder, we're doing it only once up front, relying on the engine's good >>>> buffering to make scrolling throughout the rest of the session simpler. >>>> >>>> >>>> It's worth noting that the excellent DataGrid relies on >>>> dynamically-calculated scrolling, but even more worthy to note WHY: >>>> >>>> It's not because scrolling the DG is made any faster (observably it >> isn't). >>>> >>>> It's because the performance impact of dynamically-calculated scrolling >>>> is a NECESSARY tradeoff to cover the sometimes-large number of records >>>> it's asked to display. LC uses 32-bit coordinate addressing, which is >>>> more than adequate for most things we render since it gives us about 30 >>>> feet of drawing space, far bigger than any monitor. But if you try to >>>> place tens of thousands of groups nested within a scrolling group, >>>> you'll quickly discover what happens when you exceed 32-bit coordinate >>>> space. :) >>>> >>>> So Trevor did the tedious work of providing a profoundly flexible >>>> DataGrid, where for the relatively low cost of a modest performance hit >>>> during scrolls we can effortlessly display even vast numbers of records, >>>> by only actually rendering those on screen at any given time. >>>> >>>> But the 32-bit coordinate space only applies to controls, not the >>>> contents within text fields, so.... >>>> >>>> >>>> Back to the LC Script Editor, truth be told it's been so long since I >>>> donned my pith helmet to dive into its code jungle that I'm not in a >>>> position to speak authoritatively on how it's constructed. >>>> >>>> But we can observe (sadly, without much effort) a lag between scrolling >>>> the script field and the subsequent update of the line number list. In >>>> some cases, depending on platform and script length, this lag is more >>>> easily seen than on others. >>>> >>>> This suggests that there's a lot more going on with the SE's line number >>>> update than just setting its scroll to match the editor field's. >>>> >>>> Indeed, given the variance of the lag it would seem it's not updated >>>> directly at all, but perhaps via "send". >>>> >>>> >>>> It wouldn't be appropriate to say the LC implementation is necessarily >>>> "wrong" or even "bad". It's a deeply complicated layout with a lot of >>>> updates to manage, and given the vast scope of its design ambitions it's >>>> hard to say what one "should" do there. >>>> >>>> But it is safe to observe that it was written by people who cut their >>>> teeth on languages more lower-level than xTalk. Aside from Monte and >>>> Kevin, I don't know of anyone there who shipped a product using an xTalk >>>> before being hired to make an xTalk. >>>> >>>> Obviously, that's exactly what we want in an engine team, C++ engineers >>>> who live and breathe deep computer science. >>>> >>>> But from time to time it does lend itself toward designs and >>>> implementations that look like the work of native C coders rather than >>>> native xTalkers. These strengths give us a beautiful engine, and an IDE >>>> that could probably benefit from some trimming. >>>> >>>> >>>> xTalk is a funny thing, and it's not easy coming up with a concise rule >>>> set for what constitutes good with-the-grain savvy of The xTalk Way. >>>> >>>> But we know it when we see it. And line numbers that lag behind editor >>>> field scrolls may be an example where The Zen of The xTalk Way might >>>> produce a smoother solution. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Richard Gaskin >>>> Fourth World Systems >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > -- > KIndest Regards Lagi > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From scott at elementarysoftware.com Thu Mar 25 21:07:58 2021 From: scott at elementarysoftware.com (scott at elementarysoftware.com) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2021 18:07:58 -0700 Subject: name of web page In-Reply-To: <02E38924-1EDB-4F54-B147-8BD2D930783D@m-r-d.de> References: <02E38924-1EDB-4F54-B147-8BD2D930783D@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <29C52194-0419-4AB5-A612-0CAA3177BC1F@elementarysoftware.com> Ah, of course! Thank you, Matthias. ? Scott > On Mar 25, 2021, at 1:13 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: > > Scott, > > do you want to get the filename of the script that is executing? > Then > put the filename of me > > returns the name of the lc script file including the complete path > e.g. /home/xxxxxxxx/public_html//scott/pagename.lc > > > > - > Matthias Rebbe > Life Is Too Short For Boring Code > >> Am 25.03.2021 um 21:01 schrieb scott--- via use-livecode : >> >> is there a way to determine the file name of that .lc web page (using livecode scripting)? > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > On Mar 25, 2021, at 1:13 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: > > Scott, > > do you want to get the filename of the script that is executing? > Then > put the filename of me > > returns the name of the lc script file including the complete path > e.g. /home/xxxxxxxx/public_html//scott/pagename.lc > > > > - > Matthias Rebbe > Life Is Too Short For Boring Code > >> Am 25.03.2021 um 21:01 schrieb scott--- via use-livecode : >> >> is there a way to determine the file name of that .lc web page (using livecode scripting)? > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From andrew at midwestcoastmedia.com Thu Mar 25 23:27:50 2021 From: andrew at midwestcoastmedia.com (Andrew at MidWest Coast Media) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2021 23:27:50 -0400 Subject: mobileStoreMakePurchase not working for iOS Message-ID: I have released my first project with in-app purchases but only to 50% platform success: Android works but iOS does not. I?m using the directions at https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4069/l/186807-how-do-i-implement-in-app-purchases-in-livecode-apple-appstore but am getting generic errors. I had been receiving the dreaded ?Cannot connect to iTunes Store? error, but did the test user creation dance a couple times to step past that. When trying in the simulator with a real user account or registered sandbox user I?m getting a mobileStorePurchaseError of ?UNKNOWN_ERROR" When trying on the device (production build from App Store) I?m getting a mobileStorePurchaseError of ?An unknown error occurred? These are all submitted and approved consumables registered in App Store Connect. Is there anyway to track down a more descriptive error message? Same code is working for Google Play. Compiled with LiveCode 9.6.2rc3 on macOS 11.0.1 using Xcode 12.1 ?Andrew Bell From andre at andregarzia.com Fri Mar 26 06:03:03 2021 From: andre at andregarzia.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2021 10:03:03 +0000 Subject: [bug] strange memory leak in LC Message-ID: I have no idea what happened. I?m running LC 9.6.2-rc-3 on macOS Big Sur on M1 ISA (so it is running under Rosetta 2). I kept the IDE opened for a couple days, I was working on a gaziliion stacks at the same time and was not yet ready to close them. The stacks were not doing anything, they were not running ?send in time? commands or doing any kind of processing, they were just opened. Then macOS showed me a dialog I have never ever seen on macOS 10.x, a memory exhaustion dialog. Looking closer at it, LiveCode was using 100 GB of memory, as in Gigabyte, as can be seen on this screenshot: http://andregarzia.com/img/shots/lc-memory-leak.png I remember things like the ?default button? causing leaks due to the animation and so on, but all I had was a bunch of custom stacks open and the script editor focused. Thats it. It was open since yesterday. From andre at andregarzia.com Fri Mar 26 06:08:15 2021 From: andre at andregarzia.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2021 10:08:15 +0000 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259 In-Reply-To: <5FBF6BAB-B5E8-4B3E-9A0B-9F1C706C2355@thehales.id.au> References: <5FBF6BAB-B5E8-4B3E-9A0B-9F1C706C2355@thehales.id.au> Message-ID: > On 25 Mar 2021, at 23:29, james--- via use-livecode wrote: > > I went for a bike ride this morning. > > Just thought I would add a post under this subject that is no longer really related to the subject anymore. > > Didn?t want to feel left out ;-) > huahuahuaahuahuahuahuaahuahu > James > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From sean at pidigital.co.uk Fri Mar 26 09:01:54 2021 From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Sean Cole (Pi)) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2021 13:01:54 +0000 Subject: [bug] strange memory leak in LC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Wow, Andre, that's impressive. That amounts to about 34MB per minute over 48hrs. I've had a pretty massive stack (226MB file at the moment) on my Mac sitting here over the last week. Looking in the activity monitor, LC has 987MB associated with it. and watching it over a period of time it remains stable and even went down a tiny bit. I wonder if this is more an issue with Rosetta2 in this instance. Maybe something in LC leaks because of the Rosetta transformation of the binary. Perhaps, as a test, open the same stack on a non-AppleSilicon Mac and watch them both for how much memory they expend over a period of time. All the best with that. Sean On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 at 10:03, Andre Garzia via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I have no idea what happened. I?m running LC 9.6.2-rc-3 on macOS Big Sur > on M1 ISA (so it is running under Rosetta 2). I kept the IDE opened for a > couple days, I was working on a gaziliion stacks at the same time and was > not yet ready to close them. > > The stacks were not doing anything, they were not running ?send in time? > commands or doing any kind of processing, they were just opened. Then macOS > showed me a dialog I have never ever seen on macOS 10.x, a memory > exhaustion dialog. Looking closer at it, LiveCode was using 100 GB of > memory, as in Gigabyte, as can be seen on this screenshot: > > http://andregarzia.com/img/shots/lc-memory-leak.png < > http://andregarzia.com/img/shots/lc-memory-leak.png> > > I remember things like the ?default button? causing leaks due to the > animation and so on, but all I had was a bunch of custom stacks open and > the script editor focused. Thats it. It was open since yesterday. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From andre at andregarzia.com Fri Mar 26 09:53:27 2021 From: andre at andregarzia.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2021 13:53:27 +0000 Subject: [bug] strange memory leak in LC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sean, The stack was not running anything. It was simply opened. I don?t believe it would leak like that. Anyway, I?m monitoring to see if it happens again. A > On 26 Mar 2021, at 13:01, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode wrote: > > Wow, Andre, that's impressive. That amounts to about 34MB per minute over > 48hrs. I've had a pretty massive stack (226MB file at the moment) on my Mac > sitting here over the last week. Looking in the activity monitor, LC has > 987MB associated with it. and watching it over a period of time it remains > stable and even went down a tiny bit. > > I wonder if this is more an issue with Rosetta2 in this instance. Maybe > something in LC leaks because of the Rosetta transformation of the binary. > Perhaps, as a test, open the same stack on a non-AppleSilicon Mac and watch > them both for how much memory they expend over a period of time. > > All the best with that. > > Sean > > On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 at 10:03, Andre Garzia via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> I have no idea what happened. I?m running LC 9.6.2-rc-3 on macOS Big Sur >> on M1 ISA (so it is running under Rosetta 2). I kept the IDE opened for a >> couple days, I was working on a gaziliion stacks at the same time and was >> not yet ready to close them. >> >> The stacks were not doing anything, they were not running ?send in time? >> commands or doing any kind of processing, they were just opened. Then macOS >> showed me a dialog I have never ever seen on macOS 10.x, a memory >> exhaustion dialog. Looking closer at it, LiveCode was using 100 GB of >> memory, as in Gigabyte, as can be seen on this screenshot: >> >> http://andregarzia.com/img/shots/lc-memory-leak.png < >> http://andregarzia.com/img/shots/lc-memory-leak.png> >> >> I remember things like the ?default button? causing leaks due to the >> animation and so on, but all I had was a bunch of custom stacks open and >> the script editor focused. Thats it. It was open since yesterday. >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From andre at andregarzia.com Fri Mar 26 09:56:37 2021 From: andre at andregarzia.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2021 13:56:37 +0000 Subject: Android error messages are crap Message-ID: So, I?m trying to set this machine for Android development. I have Android Studio, I?ve downloaded the needed SDKs and I?ve got the latest OpenJDK which appears to be jdk16. Now, when I go and try pressing test on the IDE to test it on the device (which is authorized and appearing fine as a target and on adb), I get that useless: ?Could not compile service support class? Which is not only not actionable, but it also can happen for any number of reasons. After seeing that it is really not clear what the problem is, or how to solve it. From merakosp at gmail.com Fri Mar 26 10:06:49 2021 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2021 16:06:49 +0200 Subject: Android error messages are crap In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Andre, Have you downloaded OpenJDK separately? I think it is bundled in Android Studio. The error sounds related to Java / JDK, so could it be the case you have multiple Java installations in your machine, and LC is not picking the right one? What are the contents of /Library/Java/JavaVirtualMachines/ ? Also, what is the jdk path that is populated in the LC mobile prefs, when you choose the sdk root folder? Cheers, Panos -- On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 at 15:58, Andre Garzia via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > So, I?m trying to set this machine for Android development. I have Android > Studio, I?ve downloaded the needed SDKs and I?ve got the latest OpenJDK > which appears to be jdk16. > > Now, when I go and try pressing test on the IDE to test it on the device > (which is authorized and appearing fine as a target and on adb), I get that > useless: > > ?Could not compile service support class? > > Which is not only not actionable, but it also can happen for any number of > reasons. After seeing that it is really not clear what the problem is, or > how to solve it. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From andre at andregarzia.com Fri Mar 26 10:17:31 2021 From: andre at andregarzia.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2021 14:17:31 +0000 Subject: Android error messages are crap In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8341583B-47CC-4D48-A1D2-5897D272A611@andregarzia.com> Dear Panos, When I selected the sdk path in Android Studio, it didn?t populate the JDK path. I downloaded the OpenJDK separately and placed it in /Library/Java/JavaVirtualMachines/, relaunched LiveCode and it was detected fine after that. That JavaVirtualMachines folder was empty after installing Android Studio, it didn?t place anything there. > On 26 Mar 2021, at 14:06, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode wrote: > > Hello Andre, > > Have you downloaded OpenJDK separately? I think it is bundled in Android > Studio. > > The error sounds related to Java / JDK, so could it be the case you have > multiple Java installations in your machine, and LC is not picking the > right one? > > What are the contents of /Library/Java/JavaVirtualMachines/ ? > > Also, what is the jdk path that is populated in the LC mobile prefs, when > you choose the sdk root folder? > > Cheers, > Panos > -- > > On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 at 15:58, Andre Garzia via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> So, I?m trying to set this machine for Android development. I have Android >> Studio, I?ve downloaded the needed SDKs and I?ve got the latest OpenJDK >> which appears to be jdk16. >> >> Now, when I go and try pressing test on the IDE to test it on the device >> (which is authorized and appearing fine as a target and on adb), I get that >> useless: >> >> ?Could not compile service support class? >> >> Which is not only not actionable, but it also can happen for any number of >> reasons. After seeing that it is really not clear what the problem is, or >> how to solve it. >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From iphonelagi at gmail.com Fri Mar 26 10:18:38 2021 From: iphonelagi at gmail.com (Lagi Pittas) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2021 14:18:38 +0000 Subject: Does anybody know if the Livecode Global happened yesterday? Message-ID: HI All, I purchase both the beginner and advanced courses (gotta have the set ;-) ) I filled in the questionnaire/registering email that was sent a few weeks ago, and since ..... nothing. -- KIndest Regards Lagi From alex at tweedly.net Fri Mar 26 10:35:26 2021 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2021 14:35:26 +0000 Subject: Does anybody know if the Livecode Global happened yesterday? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <218d2382-6b06-4846-5e75-aec853773694@tweedly.net> Yes, it happened yesterday (and I enjoyed it, and as always learnt something), and it will again today. I'd email Heather (support at ...) - and maybe mark it urgent if you want to get in in the next hour. Alex. On 26/03/2021 14:18, Lagi Pittas via use-livecode wrote: > HI All, > > I purchase both the beginner and advanced courses (gotta have the set ;-) ) > > I filled in the questionnaire/registering email that was sent a few weeks > ago, and since ..... nothing. > From sean at pidigital.co.uk Fri Mar 26 12:11:38 2021 From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Sean Cole (Pi)) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2021 16:11:38 +0000 Subject: Does anybody know if the Livecode Global happened yesterday? In-Reply-To: <218d2382-6b06-4846-5e75-aec853773694@tweedly.net> References: <218d2382-6b06-4846-5e75-aec853773694@tweedly.net> Message-ID: Heather has not been replying to my messages and I received no notification about the events. Thats another bunch of money wasted with LC. They are amazing! Sean Cole *Pi Digital Productions Ltd* www.pidigital.co.uk +44(1634)402193 +44(7702)116447 'Don't try to think outside the box. Just remember the truth: There is no box!' 'For then you realise it is not the box you are trying to look outside of, but it is yourself!' eMail Ts & Cs Pi Digital Productions Ltd is a UK registered limited company, no. 5255609 On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 at 14:35, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Yes, it happened yesterday (and I enjoyed it, and as always learnt > something), and it will again today. > > I'd email Heather (support at ...) - and maybe mark it urgent if you want > to get in in the next hour. > > Alex. > > On 26/03/2021 14:18, Lagi Pittas via use-livecode wrote: > > HI All, > > > > I purchase both the beginner and advanced courses (gotta have the set > ;-) ) > > > > I filled in the questionnaire/registering email that was sent a few weeks > > ago, and since ..... nothing. > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From iowahengst at mac.com Fri Mar 26 12:14:45 2021 From: iowahengst at mac.com (Randy Hengst) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2021 11:14:45 -0500 Subject: Does anybody know if the Livecode Global happened yesterday? In-Reply-To: References: <218d2382-6b06-4846-5e75-aec853773694@tweedly.net> Message-ID: The advanced session has begun. > On Mar 26, 2021, at 11:11 AM, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode wrote: > > Heather has not been replying to my messages and I received no notification > about the events. Thats another bunch of money wasted with LC. They are > amazing! > > Sean Cole > *Pi Digital Productions Ltd* > www.pidigital.co.uk > +44(1634)402193 > +44(7702)116447 > 'Don't try to think outside the box. Just remember the truth: There is no > box!' > 'For then you realise it is not the box you are trying to look outside of, > but it is yourself!' > > eMail Ts & Cs Pi Digital > Productions Ltd is a UK registered limited company, no. 5255609 > > > On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 at 14:35, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> Yes, it happened yesterday (and I enjoyed it, and as always learnt >> something), and it will again today. >> >> I'd email Heather (support at ...) - and maybe mark it urgent if you want >> to get in in the next hour. >> >> Alex. >> >> On 26/03/2021 14:18, Lagi Pittas via use-livecode wrote: >>> HI All, >>> >>> I purchase both the beginner and advanced courses (gotta have the set >> ;-) ) >>> >>> I filled in the questionnaire/registering email that was sent a few weeks >>> ago, and since ..... nothing. >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From heather at livecode.com Fri Mar 26 12:27:54 2021 From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2021 16:27:54 +0000 Subject: Does anybody know if the Livecode Global happened yesterday? In-Reply-To: References: <218d2382-6b06-4846-5e75-aec853773694@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <8167B151-DBC4-498A-8A13-B4877E81F75D@livecode.com> Dear Sean, I am not aware of any emails from you. I strongly suspect this indicates a spam filter at work. You should have registration emails regarding the events. I'll check and resend. Please confirm if/when you get them. Offlist of course. Regards, Heather Heather Laine Customer Services Manager LiveCode Ltd www.livecode.com > On 26 Mar 2021, at 16:11, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode wrote: > > Heather has not been replying to my messages and I received no notification > about the events. Thats another bunch of money wasted with LC. They are > amazing! > > Sean Cole > *Pi Digital Productions Ltd* > www.pidigital.co.uk > +44(1634)402193 > +44(7702)116447 > 'Don't try to think outside the box. Just remember the truth: There is no > box!' > 'For then you realise it is not the box you are trying to look outside of, > but it is yourself!' > > eMail Ts & Cs Pi Digital > Productions Ltd is a UK registered limited company, no. 5255609 > > > On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 at 14:35, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> Yes, it happened yesterday (and I enjoyed it, and as always learnt >> something), and it will again today. >> >> I'd email Heather (support at ...) - and maybe mark it urgent if you want >> to get in in the next hour. >> >> Alex. >> >> On 26/03/2021 14:18, Lagi Pittas via use-livecode wrote: >>> HI All, >>> >>> I purchase both the beginner and advanced courses (gotta have the set >> ;-) ) >>> >>> I filled in the questionnaire/registering email that was sent a few weeks >>> ago, and since ..... nothing. >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From tom at makeshyft.com Fri Mar 26 12:30:27 2021 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2021 12:30:27 -0400 Subject: Does anybody know if the Livecode Global happened yesterday? In-Reply-To: <218d2382-6b06-4846-5e75-aec853773694@tweedly.net> References: <218d2382-6b06-4846-5e75-aec853773694@tweedly.net> Message-ID: I love Livecode but they are comical at marketing. On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 10:36 AM Alex Tweedly via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Yes, it happened yesterday (and I enjoyed it, and as always learnt > something), and it will again today. > > I'd email Heather (support at ...) - and maybe mark it urgent if you want > to get in in the next hour. > > Alex. > > On 26/03/2021 14:18, Lagi Pittas via use-livecode wrote: > > HI All, > > > > I purchase both the beginner and advanced courses (gotta have the set > ;-) ) > > > > I filled in the questionnaire/registering email that was sent a few weeks > > ago, and since ..... nothing. > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Tom Glod Founder & Developer MakeShyft R.D.A (www.makeshyft.com) Mobile:647.562.9411 From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Mar 26 13:41:56 2021 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2021 12:41:56 -0500 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259 In-Reply-To: References: <5FBF6BAB-B5E8-4B3E-9A0B-9F1C706C2355@thehales.id.au> Message-ID: <1786fa0daa0.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> :) I was aware for several days that we'd usurped the topic but on the other hand, it was indeed this week in LC and now due to end. If anyone else wants to add a comment, now is the last day. :) -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On March 26, 2021 5:10:45 AM Andre Garzia via use-livecode wrote: >> On 25 Mar 2021, at 23:29, james--- via use-livecode >> wrote: >> >> I went for a bike ride this morning. >> >> Just thought I would add a post under this subject that is no longer really >> related to the subject anymore. >> >> Didn?t want to feel left out ;-) >> > > > huahuahuaahuahuahuahuaahuahu > > >> James >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From iphonelagi at gmail.com Fri Mar 26 13:45:13 2021 From: iphonelagi at gmail.com (Lagi Pittas) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2021 17:45:13 +0000 Subject: Does anybody know if the Livecode Global happened yesterday? In-Reply-To: <8167B151-DBC4-498A-8A13-B4877E81F75D@livecode.com> References: <218d2382-6b06-4846-5e75-aec853773694@tweedly.net> <8167B151-DBC4-498A-8A13-B4877E81F75D@livecode.com> Message-ID: Just found 4 emails in my Spam (spam spam , spam spam - spam spam spamspAAAm wonderful SPaaAAM) Box - they were never going there before. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duFierM1yDg Full in Stereo - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrZyZn5nVks On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 at 16:28, Heather Laine via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Dear Sean, > > I am not aware of any emails from you. I strongly suspect this indicates a > spam filter at work. You should have registration emails regarding the > events. > > I'll check and resend. Please confirm if/when you get them. Offlist of > course. > > Regards, > > Heather > > > Heather Laine > Customer Services Manager > LiveCode Ltd > www.livecode.com > > > > > On 26 Mar 2021, at 16:11, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > Heather has not been replying to my messages and I received no > notification > > about the events. Thats another bunch of money wasted with LC. They are > > amazing! > > > > Sean Cole > > *Pi Digital Productions Ltd* > > www.pidigital.co.uk > > +44(1634)402193 > > +44(7702)116447 > > 'Don't try to think outside the box. Just remember the truth: There is no > > box!' > > 'For then you realise it is not the box you are trying to look outside > of, > > but it is yourself!' > > > > eMail Ts & Cs Pi Digital > > Productions Ltd is a UK registered limited company, no. 5255609 > > > > > > On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 at 14:35, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > >> Yes, it happened yesterday (and I enjoyed it, and as always learnt > >> something), and it will again today. > >> > >> I'd email Heather (support at ...) - and maybe mark it urgent if you want > >> to get in in the next hour. > >> > >> Alex. > >> > >> On 26/03/2021 14:18, Lagi Pittas via use-livecode wrote: > >>> HI All, > >>> > >>> I purchase both the beginner and advanced courses (gotta have the set > >> ;-) ) > >>> > >>> I filled in the questionnaire/registering email that was sent a few > weeks > >>> ago, and since ..... nothing. > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- KIndest Regards Lagi From jeejeestudio at gmail.com Fri Mar 26 16:08:30 2021 From: jeejeestudio at gmail.com (JeeJeeStudio) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2021 21:08:30 +0100 Subject: Android error messages are crap In-Reply-To: <8341583B-47CC-4D48-A1D2-5897D272A611@andregarzia.com> References: <8341583B-47CC-4D48-A1D2-5897D272A611@andregarzia.com> Message-ID: <764b1df1-a67c-93e5-b741-2a042e880bac@gmail.com> Java is not installed with Android Studio, you need either Oracle's or OpenJDK Op 26-3-2021 om 15:17 schreef Andre Garzia via use-livecode: > Dear Panos, > > When I selected the sdk path in Android Studio, it didn?t populate the JDK path. I downloaded the OpenJDK separately and placed it in /Library/Java/JavaVirtualMachines/, relaunched LiveCode and it was detected fine after that. > > That JavaVirtualMachines folder was empty after installing Android Studio, it didn?t place anything there. > >> On 26 Mar 2021, at 14:06, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Hello Andre, >> >> Have you downloaded OpenJDK separately? I think it is bundled in Android >> Studio. >> >> The error sounds related to Java / JDK, so could it be the case you have >> multiple Java installations in your machine, and LC is not picking the >> right one? >> >> What are the contents of /Library/Java/JavaVirtualMachines/ ? >> >> Also, what is the jdk path that is populated in the LC mobile prefs, when >> you choose the sdk root folder? >> >> Cheers, >> Panos >> -- >> >> On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 at 15:58, Andre Garzia via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >>> So, I?m trying to set this machine for Android development. I have Android >>> Studio, I?ve downloaded the needed SDKs and I?ve got the latest OpenJDK >>> which appears to be jdk16. >>> >>> Now, when I go and try pressing test on the IDE to test it on the device >>> (which is authorized and appearing fine as a target and on adb), I get that >>> useless: >>> >>> ?Could not compile service support class? >>> >>> Which is not only not actionable, but it also can happen for any number of >>> reasons. After seeing that it is really not clear what the problem is, or >>> how to solve it. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jeejeestudio at gmail.com Fri Mar 26 16:10:16 2021 From: jeejeestudio at gmail.com (JeeJeeStudio) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2021 21:10:16 +0100 Subject: Android error messages are crap In-Reply-To: <8341583B-47CC-4D48-A1D2-5897D272A611@andregarzia.com> References: <8341583B-47CC-4D48-A1D2-5897D272A611@andregarzia.com> Message-ID: I use Oracle's JDK 1.8.*, never have a problem with it. Sometimes there is a hint in the error adb message Op 26-3-2021 om 15:17 schreef Andre Garzia via use-livecode: > Dear Panos, > > When I selected the sdk path in Android Studio, it didn?t populate the JDK path. I downloaded the OpenJDK separately and placed it in /Library/Java/JavaVirtualMachines/, relaunched LiveCode and it was detected fine after that. > > That JavaVirtualMachines folder was empty after installing Android Studio, it didn?t place anything there. > >> On 26 Mar 2021, at 14:06, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Hello Andre, >> >> Have you downloaded OpenJDK separately? I think it is bundled in Android >> Studio. >> >> The error sounds related to Java / JDK, so could it be the case you have >> multiple Java installations in your machine, and LC is not picking the >> right one? >> >> What are the contents of /Library/Java/JavaVirtualMachines/ ? >> >> Also, what is the jdk path that is populated in the LC mobile prefs, when >> you choose the sdk root folder? >> >> Cheers, >> Panos >> -- >> >> On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 at 15:58, Andre Garzia via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >>> So, I?m trying to set this machine for Android development. I have Android >>> Studio, I?ve downloaded the needed SDKs and I?ve got the latest OpenJDK >>> which appears to be jdk16. >>> >>> Now, when I go and try pressing test on the IDE to test it on the device >>> (which is authorized and appearing fine as a target and on adb), I get that >>> useless: >>> >>> ?Could not compile service support class? >>> >>> Which is not only not actionable, but it also can happen for any number of >>> reasons. After seeing that it is really not clear what the problem is, or >>> how to solve it. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From irog at mac.com Fri Mar 26 18:33:55 2021 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2021 15:33:55 -0700 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones Message-ID: <3089B3CA-C8DD-4939-9BDC-C1AAFB67F934@mac.com> Has anyone thought of building a ?legal? and ?blessed" app for Mac, WIndows and Linux that would open standalones for for each of those platforms? Why put each of us through the agony (and expense) of shifting/changing requirements to be able to easily distribute standalones? Just as Microsoft Word is required to open .doc files why not have something like LCreader app open .livecode files Roger From ambassador at fourthworld.com Fri Mar 26 18:54:30 2021 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2021 15:54:30 -0700 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: <3089B3CA-C8DD-4939-9BDC-C1AAFB67F934@mac.com> References: <3089B3CA-C8DD-4939-9BDC-C1AAFB67F934@mac.com> Message-ID: <91a43141-e506-39e3-06bf-dad0fae454b1@fourthworld.com> Roger Guay wrote: > Has anyone thought of building a ?legal? and ?blessed" app for > Mac, WIndows and Linux that would open standalones for for each > of those platforms? Why put each of us through the agony (and > expense) of shifting/changing requirements to be able to easily > distribute standalones? Just as Microsoft Word is required to > open .doc files why not have something like LCreader app open > .livecode files Applications can have documents, and with many apps the documents are interactive media. The LC engine has been supporting the ability to do that since the beginning. A stack can open another stack file equally well whether you run that stack in the IDE or as a standalone. You make just one standalone set up with the libraries and UI you want to present to your audience, and allow it to open anything you want folks to run with it. The Standalone Builder even provides a place to assign a document type for your app's files. There are many reasons it would be problematic to make one generic "player" for everyone's stack files, mostly user experience but also app store restrictions, and additional technical requirements for any devs using it to keep stacks playing nicely together. But you can make just one standalone and run anything else you make with it. Most of the work I've done over the years does exactly that. We deliver new stuff all the time, but we don't bother updating the installed app but maybe once every could years as OS/engine needs change - we do it all with stack files as documents to the app. In fact, for the last decade or so I've gone one further: users don't even need to deal with documents, at least not directly. The standalone pulls them down over the web. Modern, cloud-driven, just like Adobe, Microsoft and others are heavily invested in. Only it's easier in LC, as easy as "go stack ". -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From irog at mac.com Fri Mar 26 20:14:34 2021 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2021 17:14:34 -0700 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: <91a43141-e506-39e3-06bf-dad0fae454b1@fourthworld.com> References: <3089B3CA-C8DD-4939-9BDC-C1AAFB67F934@mac.com> <91a43141-e506-39e3-06bf-dad0fae454b1@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <71E3E655-82FD-47DB-B287-729472D48B6F@mac.com> I guess I?m just thick headed, Richard, but I don?t know how anything you said solves my problem. Say I want to share a standalone with my wife or a friend. How can I do that easily like the good ol days? Roger > On Mar 26, 2021, at 3:54 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > Roger Guay wrote: > > Has anyone thought of building a ?legal? and ?blessed" app for > > Mac, WIndows and Linux that would open standalones for for each > > of those platforms? Why put each of us through the agony (and > > expense) of shifting/changing requirements to be able to easily > > distribute standalones? Just as Microsoft Word is required to > > open .doc files why not have something like LCreader app open > > .livecode files > > > Applications can have documents, and with many apps the documents are interactive media. The LC engine has been supporting the ability to do that since the beginning. > > A stack can open another stack file equally well whether you run that stack in the IDE or as a standalone. > > You make just one standalone set up with the libraries and UI you want to present to your audience, and allow it to open anything you want folks to run with it. > > The Standalone Builder even provides a place to assign a document type for your app's files. > > > There are many reasons it would be problematic to make one generic "player" for everyone's stack files, mostly user experience but also app store restrictions, and additional technical requirements for any devs using it to keep stacks playing nicely together. > > > But you can make just one standalone and run anything else you make with it. > > Most of the work I've done over the years does exactly that. We deliver new stuff all the time, but we don't bother updating the installed app but maybe once every could years as OS/engine needs change - we do it all with stack files as documents to the app. > > In fact, for the last decade or so I've gone one further: users don't even need to deal with documents, at least not directly. The standalone pulls them down over the web. > > Modern, cloud-driven, just like Adobe, Microsoft and others are heavily invested in. Only it's easier in LC, as easy as "go stack ". > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Fri Mar 26 20:35:20 2021 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2021 17:35:20 -0700 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: <71E3E655-82FD-47DB-B287-729472D48B6F@mac.com> References: <71E3E655-82FD-47DB-B287-729472D48B6F@mac.com> Message-ID: <10cc473a-e66e-1347-ff39-bbe7893a83fa@fourthworld.com> Roger Guay wrote: > I guess I?m just thick headed, Richard, but I don?t know how anything > you said solves my problem. Say I want to share a standalone with my > wife or a friend. How can I do that easily like the good ol days? It seems I'm the one who didn't understand. Here you're asking about how to transfer a standalone. My reply to was to what I had read as a very different question, about a player. I described a couple different ways to make a player, but that was not what you were looking for. What are you looking for? When were these "good ol days" in which one could run stack files without an engine, and how did that work? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems > On Mar 26, 2021, at 3:54 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > Roger Guay wrote: > > Has anyone thought of building a ?legal? and ?blessed" app for > > Mac, WIndows and Linux that would open standalones for for each > > of those platforms? Why put each of us through the agony (and > > expense) of shifting/changing requirements to be able to easily > > distribute standalones? Just as Microsoft Word is required to > > open .doc files why not have something like LCreader app open > > .livecode files > > > Applications can have documents, and with many apps the documents are > interactive media. The LC engine has been supporting the ability to > do that since the beginning. > > A stack can open another stack file equally well whether you run that > stack in the IDE or as a standalone. > > You make just one standalone set up with the libraries and UI you want > to present to your audience, and allow it to open anything you want > folks to run with it. > > The Standalone Builder even provides a place to assign a document type > for your app's files. > > > There are many reasons it would be problematic to make one generic > "player" for everyone's stack files, mostly user experience but also > app store restrictions, and additional technical requirements for any > devs using it to keep stacks playing nicely together. > > > But you can make just one standalone and run anything else you make > with it. > > Most of the work I've done over the years does exactly that. We > deliver new stuff all the time, but we don't bother updating the > installed app but maybe once every could years as OS/engine needs > change - we do it all with stack files as documents to the app. > > In fact, for the last decade or so I've gone one further: users don't > even need to deal with documents, at least not directly. The > standalone pulls them down over the web. > > Modern, cloud-driven, just like Adobe, Microsoft and others are > heavily invested in. Only it's easier in LC, as easy as "go stack > ". > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web From alex at tweedly.net Fri Mar 26 21:31:38 2021 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2021 01:31:38 +0000 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: <10cc473a-e66e-1347-ff39-bbe7893a83fa@fourthworld.com> References: <71E3E655-82FD-47DB-B287-729472D48B6F@mac.com> <10cc473a-e66e-1347-ff39-bbe7893a83fa@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <93dc8e7f-94a2-0301-7884-59ad686a065c@tweedly.net> On 27/03/2021 00:35, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > What are you looking for?? When were these "good ol days" in which one > could run stack files without an engine, and how did that work? > I can describe what I would like; that may be similar to what Roger is looking for. Or it may not. But I think it is :-) I'd like to be able to develop a stack and give it to a friends or family, and have them run it on their iOS or Android devices. I don't want to get involved in building iOS standalones (or even installing xCode), so ideally I would give them a simple app (i.e. stackRunner kind of thing), and then my "app" as a document to load into that 'runner' app. > There are many reasons it would be problematic to make one generic > "player" for everyone's stack files, mostly user experience but also > app store restrictions, and additional technical requirements for any > devs using it to keep stacks playing nicely together. I'm not going to sell apps, or distribute them widely, so I (don't think I) care about app store restrictions. I also don't care about 'user experience' in the sense of branding or feeling like a unique app. I'm not sure what you mean by? "additional technical requirements..." If that's feasible, I'd happily buy (or contribute cost towards) such a 'runner' app. I doubt that I'd be the only one. Alex. From sundown.pacifier at icloud.com Fri Mar 26 22:19:11 2021 From: sundown.pacifier at icloud.com (John Balgenorth) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2021 19:19:11 -0700 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: <93dc8e7f-94a2-0301-7884-59ad686a065c@tweedly.net> References: <93dc8e7f-94a2-0301-7884-59ad686a065c@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <82938C93-DB36-4B15-A4E1-EEAD70E35310@icloud.com> It sounds to me that what you want is a version of the development system without the ability to code or develop stacks. Is that what HyperCard Player did for hyperCard stacks? Richard should know of SuperCard could do it. JB > On Mar 26, 2021, at 6:33 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote: > > ? >> On 27/03/2021 00:35, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: >> >> What are you looking for? When were these "good ol days" in which one could run stack files without an engine, and how did that work? >> > I can describe what I would like; that may be similar to what Roger is looking for. Or it may not. > But I think it is :-) > > > I'd like to be able to develop a stack and give it to a friends or family, and have them run it on their iOS or Android devices. I don't want to get involved in building iOS standalones (or even installing xCode), so ideally I would give them a simple app (i.e. stackRunner kind of thing), and then my "app" as a document to load into that 'runner' app. > >> There are many reasons it would be problematic to make one generic "player" for everyone's stack files, mostly user experience but also app store restrictions, and additional technical requirements for any devs using it to keep stacks playing nicely together. > > I'm not going to sell apps, or distribute them widely, so I (don't think I) care about app store restrictions. I also don't care about 'user experience' in the sense of branding or feeling like a unique app. > > I'm not sure what you mean by "additional technical requirements..." > > If that's feasible, I'd happily buy (or contribute cost towards) such a 'runner' app. I doubt that I'd be the only one. > > Alex. > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From scott at elementarysoftware.com Fri Mar 26 22:27:40 2021 From: scott at elementarysoftware.com (scott at elementarysoftware.com) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2021 19:27:40 -0700 Subject: [bug] strange memory leak in LC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <82D2A2F7-D1AE-43F8-B682-685013CEE2FE@elementarysoftware.com> I?m running Big Sur and just got a warning from the OS that I was out of application memory. Livecode was using 133.52 GB of memory. It had been open for a couple days but it wasn?t doing anything. -- Scott Morrow Elementary Software (Now with 20% less chalk dust!) web https://elementarysoftware.com/ email scott at elementarysoftware.com booth 1-360-734-4701 ------------------------------------------------------ > On Mar 26, 2021, at 6:53 AM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode wrote: > > Sean, > > The stack was not running anything. It was simply opened. I don?t believe it would leak like that. Anyway, I?m monitoring to see if it happens again. > > A > >> On 26 Mar 2021, at 13:01, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Wow, Andre, that's impressive. That amounts to about 34MB per minute over >> 48hrs. I've had a pretty massive stack (226MB file at the moment) on my Mac >> sitting here over the last week. Looking in the activity monitor, LC has >> 987MB associated with it. and watching it over a period of time it remains >> stable and even went down a tiny bit. >> >> I wonder if this is more an issue with Rosetta2 in this instance. Maybe >> something in LC leaks because of the Rosetta transformation of the binary. >> Perhaps, as a test, open the same stack on a non-AppleSilicon Mac and watch >> them both for how much memory they expend over a period of time. >> >> All the best with that. >> >> Sean >> >> On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 at 10:03, Andre Garzia via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >>> I have no idea what happened. I?m running LC 9.6.2-rc-3 on macOS Big Sur >>> on M1 ISA (so it is running under Rosetta 2). I kept the IDE opened for a >>> couple days, I was working on a gaziliion stacks at the same time and was >>> not yet ready to close them. >>> >>> The stacks were not doing anything, they were not running ?send in time? >>> commands or doing any kind of processing, they were just opened. Then macOS >>> showed me a dialog I have never ever seen on macOS 10.x, a memory >>> exhaustion dialog. Looking closer at it, LiveCode was using 100 GB of >>> memory, as in Gigabyte, as can be seen on this screenshot: >>> >>> http://andregarzia.com/img/shots/lc-memory-leak.png < >>> http://andregarzia.com/img/shots/lc-memory-leak.png> >>> >>> I remember things like the ?default button? causing leaks due to the >>> animation and so on, but all I had was a bunch of custom stacks open and >>> the script editor focused. Thats it. It was open since yesterday. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org Fri Mar 26 22:30:46 2021 From: prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org (ELS Prothero) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2021 19:30:46 -0700 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: <82938C93-DB36-4B15-A4E1-EEAD70E35310@icloud.com> References: <82938C93-DB36-4B15-A4E1-EEAD70E35310@icloud.com> Message-ID: <3AD65BE5-514B-44F7-BBC5-69F9181066F9@earthlearningsolutions.org> Folks, That sounds pretty interesting. Wouldn?t that be doable by creating a splash stack the looked for a stack to launch in its folder. That stack would be the app. But I don?t know if a stand-alone compiled splash stack could call and run a raw xxx.livecode stack. Can it? Best, Bill William Prothero https://earthlearningsolutions.org > On Mar 26, 2021, at 7:20 PM, John Balgenorth via use-livecode wrote: > > ?It sounds to me that what you want is a version of the development system > without the ability to code or develop stacks. Is that what HyperCard Player > did for hyperCard stacks? Richard should know of SuperCard could do it. > > JB > >> On Mar 26, 2021, at 6:33 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote: >> >> ? >>>> On 27/03/2021 00:35, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> What are you looking for? When were these "good ol days" in which one could run stack files without an engine, and how did that work? >>> >> I can describe what I would like; that may be similar to what Roger is looking for. Or it may not. >> But I think it is :-) >> >> >> I'd like to be able to develop a stack and give it to a friends or family, and have them run it on their iOS or Android devices. I don't want to get involved in building iOS standalones (or even installing xCode), so ideally I would give them a simple app (i.e. stackRunner kind of thing), and then my "app" as a document to load into that 'runner' app. >> >>> There are many reasons it would be problematic to make one generic "player" for everyone's stack files, mostly user experience but also app store restrictions, and additional technical requirements for any devs using it to keep stacks playing nicely together. >> >> I'm not going to sell apps, or distribute them widely, so I (don't think I) care about app store restrictions. I also don't care about 'user experience' in the sense of branding or feeling like a unique app. >> >> I'm not sure what you mean by "additional technical requirements..." >> >> If that's feasible, I'd happily buy (or contribute cost towards) such a 'runner' app. I doubt that I'd be the only one. >> >> Alex. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From sundown.pacifier at icloud.com Fri Mar 26 22:33:22 2021 From: sundown.pacifier at icloud.com (John Balgenorth) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2021 19:33:22 -0700 Subject: [bug] strange memory leak in LC In-Reply-To: <82D2A2F7-D1AE-43F8-B682-685013CEE2FE@elementarysoftware.com> References: <82D2A2F7-D1AE-43F8-B682-685013CEE2FE@elementarysoftware.com> Message-ID: <4756D8CB-CDF1-44B2-B65C-8B219200A250@icloud.com> I am not personally using Bug Sur but if you make a standalone does it leak memory too or is this only with the development system? JB > On Mar 26, 2021, at 7:29 PM, scott--- via use-livecode wrote: > > ?I?m running Big Sur and just got a warning from the OS that I was out of application memory. Livecode was using 133.52 GB of memory. It had been open for a couple days but it wasn?t doing anything. > -- > Scott Morrow > > Elementary Software > (Now with 20% less chalk dust!) > web https://elementarysoftware.com/ > email scott at elementarysoftware.com > booth 1-360-734-4701 > ------------------------------------------------------ > >> On Mar 26, 2021, at 6:53 AM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Sean, >> >> The stack was not running anything. It was simply opened. I don?t believe it would leak like that. Anyway, I?m monitoring to see if it happens again. >> >> A >> >>>> On 26 Mar 2021, at 13:01, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> Wow, Andre, that's impressive. That amounts to about 34MB per minute over >>> 48hrs. I've had a pretty massive stack (226MB file at the moment) on my Mac >>> sitting here over the last week. Looking in the activity monitor, LC has >>> 987MB associated with it. and watching it over a period of time it remains >>> stable and even went down a tiny bit. >>> >>> I wonder if this is more an issue with Rosetta2 in this instance. Maybe >>> something in LC leaks because of the Rosetta transformation of the binary. >>> Perhaps, as a test, open the same stack on a non-AppleSilicon Mac and watch >>> them both for how much memory they expend over a period of time. >>> >>> All the best with that. >>> >>> Sean >>> >>> On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 at 10:03, Andre Garzia via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> >>>> I have no idea what happened. I?m running LC 9.6.2-rc-3 on macOS Big Sur >>>> on M1 ISA (so it is running under Rosetta 2). I kept the IDE opened for a >>>> couple days, I was working on a gaziliion stacks at the same time and was >>>> not yet ready to close them. >>>> >>>> The stacks were not doing anything, they were not running ?send in time? >>>> commands or doing any kind of processing, they were just opened. Then macOS >>>> showed me a dialog I have never ever seen on macOS 10.x, a memory >>>> exhaustion dialog. Looking closer at it, LiveCode was using 100 GB of >>>> memory, as in Gigabyte, as can be seen on this screenshot: >>>> >>>> http://andregarzia.com/img/shots/lc-memory-leak.png < >>>> http://andregarzia.com/img/shots/lc-memory-leak.png> >>>> >>>> I remember things like the ?default button? causing leaks due to the >>>> animation and so on, but all I had was a bunch of custom stacks open and >>>> the script editor focused. Thats it. It was open since yesterday. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Fri Mar 26 22:43:12 2021 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2021 19:43:12 -0700 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: <93dc8e7f-94a2-0301-7884-59ad686a065c@tweedly.net> References: <93dc8e7f-94a2-0301-7884-59ad686a065c@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <26aeb614-4a77-5b92-5f7f-cd55c53bd50c@fourthworld.com> Alex Tweedly wrote: > On 27/03/2021 00:35, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: >> >> What are you looking for? When were these "good ol days" in which >> one could run stack files without an engine, and how did that work? >> > I can describe what I would like; that may be similar to what Roger is > looking for. Or it may not. > But I think it is :-) > > I'd like to be able to develop a stack and give it to a friends or > family, and have them run it on their iOS or Android devices. I don't > want to get involved in building iOS standalones (or even installing > xCode), so ideally I would give them a simple app (i.e. stackRunner > kind of thing), and then my "app" as a document to load into that > 'runner' app. > >> There are many reasons it would be problematic to make one generic >> "player" for everyone's stack files, mostly user experience but also >> app store restrictions, and additional technical requirements for any >> devs using it to keep stacks playing nicely together. > > I'm not going to sell apps, or distribute them widely, so I (don't > think I) care about app store restrictions. None of us would, because Apple's app store explicitly prohibits apps that act anything like app stores, so any distribution would be outside of their app store. > I also don't care about 'user experience' in the sense of branding or > feeling like a unique app. If I were delivering a standalone that ran stacks as courses for elementary students, I'd design it differently than if the standalone were aimed at adult learners, or at organizations where the stacks could be collaboration or productivity tools. Everything, even with the most trivial products, comes down to: What are you making and who's it for? A one-size-fits-all really fits none, with either clothes or software. This is something that's been part of my career since the mid-90s, when I was working on this very question with the folks at Allegiant Technologies for SuperCard. Much of the work I've done all these years is building authoring systems for people to deliver interactive experiences. I've had lots of time across a dozen industries to think this through. A generic player is one of those things that seems simple, but is only simple in practice to the degree that it doesn't deliver a great experience. Let's set design aside for the moment and look at one other corner of this: licensing. A generic player poses a potential risk to proprietary editions of LC, since it could be used as a way for folks to bypass a need for licensed standalone building. Understandably, the LC EULA for the proprietary editions prohibit building a generic player. However, the GPL serves an entirely different set of goals, emphasizing the freedom for the recipient of a work to do whatever they want with it all the way down to the source code. This makes the Community Edition a natural fit for a generic player, since the proliferation the license explicitly encourages would be very much with the grain of its goals. But then we have to ask: how many of those who might enjoy a generic player embrace the GPL with the stacks they'd like to distribute it with? If there's enough people into the GPL that part of the licensing questions is solved. But at the moment I'm not sure that's the case, and even if it is we're still left with the other question of security/liability: If I make a standalone that runs stacks designed for a specific range of needs under my supervision, I have no problem putting my name on it since it's all code I can vet. But if I make a generic player and someone else decides to distribute malware for it, LC is quite powerful, and quite powerful damage could result, rapidly, to the lives of everyone who ran it. Of course, depending on the jurisdiction, chances are good I'd prevail if someone tried to assert that my company's reputation is what encouraged them to believe that any stacks run with it would be at least reasonably safe, despite whatever disclaimer I'd included (case law is mixed on this). But can you imagine the time and money needed to defend a case like that? It only takes one annoyed person with deep pockets to turn your life into a living hell, even if you eventually "win" the case. > I'm not sure what you mean by "additional technical requirements..." > > If that's feasible, I'd happily buy (or contribute cost towards) such > a 'runner' app. I doubt that I'd be the only one. The technical side of this would be longer than the above, which is already too long. I've found that the more complete my answers here the less they're read, so there's a point where mail lists just aren't a great place for deep dives. TL/DR: If all one wants is a vanilla runtime engine and doesn't care about either user experience, licensing, or security, just make a standalone with an "Open File..." item in its file menu and you're done. You still need to get the engine to the user, but that only needs to be done once. Anyone can build that. Keep it for your own stuff among friends and no one will likely mind; or distribute it broadly under GPL with the Community Edition and you're good with that too. Anyone interested in a more serious effort to distribute works within a solid design and architecture for a specific segment -- whether education, business, or something else -- drop me an email and let's talk. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From irog at mac.com Fri Mar 26 22:45:21 2021 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2021 19:45:21 -0700 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: <10cc473a-e66e-1347-ff39-bbe7893a83fa@fourthworld.com> References: <71E3E655-82FD-47DB-B287-729472D48B6F@mac.com> <10cc473a-e66e-1347-ff39-bbe7893a83fa@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: In the good ol days, I could build a standalone for the Mac, Windows and Linux and distribute it willy-nilly. Now I have to jump thru intolerable hoops (at least for the Mac) to give someone my standalone. if someone (hint. . .hint) could build a Livecode reader app for dirt cheap or even free w advertising that would run LC standalones, everything would be right in the world again! I think my martini is showing... Roger > On Mar 26, 2021, at 5:35 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > What are you looking for? When were these "good ol days" in which one could run stack files without an engine, and how did that work? From brian at milby7.com Sat Mar 27 00:28:19 2021 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2021 00:28:19 -0400 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4AAE7736-4018-43CD-9B07-274B31E5A6CA@milby7.com> Couldn?t your stack hide the IDE stuff on launch and just have them install the community IDE? Sent from my iPhone > On Mar 26, 2021, at 10:46 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: > > ?In the good ol days, I could build a standalone for the Mac, Windows and Linux and distribute it willy-nilly. Now I have to jump thru intolerable hoops (at least for the Mac) to give someone my standalone. if someone (hint. . .hint) could build a Livecode reader app for dirt cheap or even free w advertising that would run LC standalones, everything would be right in the world again! > > I think my martini is showing... > > Roger > >> On Mar 26, 2021, at 5:35 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: >> >> What are you looking for? When were these "good ol days" in which one could run stack files without an engine, and how did that work? > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dsquance at telus.net Sat Mar 27 00:39:19 2021 From: dsquance at telus.net (David Squance) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2021 21:39:19 -0700 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: <91a43141-e506-39e3-06bf-dad0fae454b1@fourthworld.com> References: <3089B3CA-C8DD-4939-9BDC-C1AAFB67F934@mac.com> <91a43141-e506-39e3-06bf-dad0fae454b1@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <5DAF241E-22C5-4E17-BC54-CD0BF84DD5B8@telus.net> It was my understanding that iOS apps can?t even be created without a license from Apple. Mostly what I would want to share would be games I made for my grandson and he only uses iOS devices. I?ve never tried making a standalone for iOS, even for testing, because I didn?t think I could. Is that not the case? Dave > On Mar 26, 2021, at 3:54 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > Roger Guay wrote: > > Has anyone thought of building a ?legal? and ?blessed" app for > > Mac, WIndows and Linux that would open standalones for for each > > of those platforms? Why put each of us through the agony (and > > expense) of shifting/changing requirements to be able to easily > > distribute standalones? Just as Microsoft Word is required to > > open .doc files why not have something like LCreader app open > > .livecode files > From irog at mac.com Sat Mar 27 00:54:37 2021 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2021 21:54:37 -0700 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: <4AAE7736-4018-43CD-9B07-274B31E5A6CA@milby7.com> References: <4AAE7736-4018-43CD-9B07-274B31E5A6CA@milby7.com> Message-ID: Yes, that?s probably the best answer so far. I just think it?s a little bit harder to convince someone to download Livecode community than to pick up a cute little app from the app store specifically designed to run standalones. Just a stupid idea I guess. Roger > On Mar 26, 2021, at 9:28 PM, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote: > > Couldn?t your stack hide the IDE stuff on launch and just have them install the community IDE? > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Mar 26, 2021, at 10:46 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: >> >> ?In the good ol days, I could build a standalone for the Mac, Windows and Linux and distribute it willy-nilly. Now I have to jump thru intolerable hoops (at least for the Mac) to give someone my standalone. if someone (hint. . .hint) could build a Livecode reader app for dirt cheap or even free w advertising that would run LC standalones, everything would be right in the world again! >> >> I think my martini is showing... >> >> Roger >> >>> On Mar 26, 2021, at 5:35 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> What are you looking for? When were these "good ol days" in which one could run stack files without an engine, and how did that work? >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From phil at pdslabs.net Sat Mar 27 00:57:56 2021 From: phil at pdslabs.net (Phil Davis) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2021 21:57:56 -0700 Subject: [bug] strange memory leak in LC In-Reply-To: <4756D8CB-CDF1-44B2-B65C-8B219200A250@icloud.com> References: <82D2A2F7-D1AE-43F8-B682-685013CEE2FE@elementarysoftware.com> <4756D8CB-CDF1-44B2-B65C-8B219200A250@icloud.com> Message-ID: <968340be-831e-f86f-7f1e-9cda1ed22422@pdslabs.net> I created a little "leak test" stack that runs the "leaks" shell command against the processID of the LC engine that runs the stack. It checks for new leaks every 60 seconds and lists the number and size of each new leak found. I'm running it in LC 9.6.1 on 3 Macs right now - Catalina, High Sierra and Big Sur. After about 30 minutes: - LC on Big Sur (M1) has 10 leaks for a total of 688 bytes. - LC on Catalina (Intel) has no leaks. - LC on High Sierra (Intel) has no leaks. Just FYI - Phil Davis On 3/26/21 7:33 PM, John Balgenorth via use-livecode wrote: > I am not personally using Bug Sur but if you make a standalone does > it leak memory too or is this only with the development system? > > JB > >> On Mar 26, 2021, at 7:29 PM, scott--- via use-livecode wrote: >> >> ?I?m running Big Sur and just got a warning from the OS that I was out of application memory. Livecode was using 133.52 GB of memory. It had been open for a couple days but it wasn?t doing anything. >> -- >> Scott Morrow >> >> Elementary Software >> (Now with 20% less chalk dust!) >> web https://elementarysoftware.com/ >> email scott at elementarysoftware.com >> booth 1-360-734-4701 >> ------------------------------------------------------ >> >>> On Mar 26, 2021, at 6:53 AM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> Sean, >>> >>> The stack was not running anything. It was simply opened. I don?t believe it would leak like that. Anyway, I?m monitoring to see if it happens again. >>> >>> A >>> >>>>> On 26 Mar 2021, at 13:01, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode wrote: >>>> Wow, Andre, that's impressive. That amounts to about 34MB per minute over >>>> 48hrs. I've had a pretty massive stack (226MB file at the moment) on my Mac >>>> sitting here over the last week. Looking in the activity monitor, LC has >>>> 987MB associated with it. and watching it over a period of time it remains >>>> stable and even went down a tiny bit. >>>> >>>> I wonder if this is more an issue with Rosetta2 in this instance. Maybe >>>> something in LC leaks because of the Rosetta transformation of the binary. >>>> Perhaps, as a test, open the same stack on a non-AppleSilicon Mac and watch >>>> them both for how much memory they expend over a period of time. >>>> >>>> All the best with that. >>>> >>>> Sean >>>> >>>> On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 at 10:03, Andre Garzia via use-livecode < >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I have no idea what happened. I?m running LC 9.6.2-rc-3 on macOS Big Sur >>>>> on M1 ISA (so it is running under Rosetta 2). I kept the IDE opened for a >>>>> couple days, I was working on a gaziliion stacks at the same time and was >>>>> not yet ready to close them. >>>>> >>>>> The stacks were not doing anything, they were not running ?send in time? >>>>> commands or doing any kind of processing, they were just opened. Then macOS >>>>> showed me a dialog I have never ever seen on macOS 10.x, a memory >>>>> exhaustion dialog. Looking closer at it, LiveCode was using 100 GB of >>>>> memory, as in Gigabyte, as can be seen on this screenshot: >>>>> >>>>> http://andregarzia.com/img/shots/lc-memory-leak.png < >>>>> http://andregarzia.com/img/shots/lc-memory-leak.png> >>>>> >>>>> I remember things like the ?default button? causing leaks due to the >>>>> animation and so on, but all I had was a bunch of custom stacks open and >>>>> the script editor focused. Thats it. It was open since yesterday. >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode -- Phil Davis 503-307-4363 From irog at mac.com Sat Mar 27 01:05:47 2021 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2021 22:05:47 -0700 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: <5DAF241E-22C5-4E17-BC54-CD0BF84DD5B8@telus.net> References: <3089B3CA-C8DD-4939-9BDC-C1AAFB67F934@mac.com> <91a43141-e506-39e3-06bf-dad0fae454b1@fourthworld.com> <5DAF241E-22C5-4E17-BC54-CD0BF84DD5B8@telus.net> Message-ID: <56D72A25-A8C9-473E-9AB8-5097428DAE39@mac.com> You?re right, David. I was specifically addressing standalones for Mac, Windows and Linux. They are easily created without licenses etc. for use on your own computer, but cannot be distributed w/o licenses etc Roger > On Mar 26, 2021, at 9:39 PM, David Squance via use-livecode wrote: > > It was my understanding that iOS apps can?t even be created without a license from Apple. Mostly what I would want to share would be games I made for my grandson and he only uses iOS devices. > > I?ve never tried making a standalone for iOS, even for testing, because I didn?t think I could. Is that not the case? > > Dave > >> On Mar 26, 2021, at 3:54 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Roger Guay wrote: >>> Has anyone thought of building a ?legal? and ?blessed" app for >>> Mac, WIndows and Linux that would open standalones for for each >>> of those platforms? Why put each of us through the agony (and >>> expense) of shifting/changing requirements to be able to easily >>> distribute standalones? Just as Microsoft Word is required to >>> open .doc files why not have something like LCreader app open >>> .livecode files >> > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dsquance at telus.net Sat Mar 27 01:09:37 2021 From: dsquance at telus.net (David Squance) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2021 22:09:37 -0700 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: <56D72A25-A8C9-473E-9AB8-5097428DAE39@mac.com> References: <3089B3CA-C8DD-4939-9BDC-C1AAFB67F934@mac.com> <91a43141-e506-39e3-06bf-dad0fae454b1@fourthworld.com> <5DAF241E-22C5-4E17-BC54-CD0BF84DD5B8@telus.net> <56D72A25-A8C9-473E-9AB8-5097428DAE39@mac.com> Message-ID: Thanks for the confirmation. Dave > On Mar 26, 2021, at 10:05 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: > > You?re right, David. I was specifically addressing standalones for Mac, Windows and Linux. They are easily created without licenses etc. for use on your own computer, but cannot be distributed w/o licenses etc > > Roger > >> On Mar 26, 2021, at 9:39 PM, David Squance via use-livecode wrote: >> >> It was my understanding that iOS apps can?t even be created without a license from Apple. Mostly what I would want to share would be games I made for my grandson and he only uses iOS devices. >> >> I?ve never tried making a standalone for iOS, even for testing, because I didn?t think I could. Is that not the case? >> >> Dave >> >>> On Mar 26, 2021, at 3:54 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> Roger Guay wrote: >>>> Has anyone thought of building a ?legal? and ?blessed" app for >>>> Mac, WIndows and Linux that would open standalones for for each >>>> of those platforms? Why put each of us through the agony (and >>>> expense) of shifting/changing requirements to be able to easily >>>> distribute standalones? Just as Microsoft Word is required to >>>> open .doc files why not have something like LCreader app open >>>> .livecode files >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat Mar 27 02:27:38 2021 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2021 01:27:38 -0500 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: References: <71E3E655-82FD-47DB-B287-729472D48B6F@mac.com> <10cc473a-e66e-1347-ff39-bbe7893a83fa@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <178725ddf90.2749.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> I don't think what you want is possible unless your target users are on very old operating systems. On Mac OS at least, every standalone now has to be notarized . You could build a standalone that launches other standalones, but each of those would also have to be notarized or the Mac won't open it. Windows has some similar limitations too, though there are ways around it if you know how, or at least there used to be. I don't know how Linux manages such things. However, you *can* build a standalone that opens stacks. Those don't need to be certified, notarized, stapled, verified, or anything else. Only executables need that. When you get to mobile, it's trickier. For Android, you can distribute standalones without limitations, though users have been taught not to trust third-party distributions unless they know the author (which in your case they probably would.) But you can't build an Android standalone that opens other Android standalones because every app is sandboxed and can't access anything outside of its own box. And for iOS, you can't distribute from anywhere but the App Store, period., which requires a developer account and lots of bureaucratic rigamarole. But like desktop apps, you can build a single Android app that opens other stacks; typically from a server because unless the app is designed with specific permissions (bestowed by Google review I believe, but not sure) it can't access other files on the device. On iOS, assuming your app is in the App Store, Apple may or may not allow it to download stacks depending on whether their review team views that as a security issue. If you are building a standalone only for your own use, you are free and clear because anything you create on your own machine is available without restriction. I think the good old days are over. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On March 26, 2021 9:47:26 PM Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: > In the good ol days, I could build a standalone for the Mac, Windows and > Linux and distribute it willy-nilly. Now I have to jump thru intolerable > hoops (at least for the Mac) to give someone my standalone. if someone > (hint. . .hint) could build a Livecode reader app for dirt cheap or even > free w advertising that would run LC standalones, everything would be right > in the world again! From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat Mar 27 02:33:29 2021 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2021 01:33:29 -0500 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: <93dc8e7f-94a2-0301-7884-59ad686a065c@tweedly.net> References: <71E3E655-82FD-47DB-B287-729472D48B6F@mac.com> <10cc473a-e66e-1347-ff39-bbe7893a83fa@fourthworld.com> <93dc8e7f-94a2-0301-7884-59ad686a065c@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <17872633aa8.2749.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> You could do that on Android because Android allows private distribution. The stacks would have to be downloaded from the internet though. For iOS, no way. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On March 26, 2021 8:34:20 PM Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote: > > I'd like to be able to develop a stack and give it to a friends or > family, and have them run it on their iOS or Android devices. I don't > want to get involved in building iOS standalones (or even installing > xCode), so ideally I would give them a simple app (i.e. stackRunner kind > of thing), and then my "app" as a document to load into that 'runner' app. From irog at mac.com Sat Mar 27 12:16:32 2021 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2021 09:16:32 -0700 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: <178725ddf90.2749.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <71E3E655-82FD-47DB-B287-729472D48B6F@mac.com> <10cc473a-e66e-1347-ff39-bbe7893a83fa@fourthworld.com> <178725ddf90.2749.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: This conversation has given me some focus and clarification of the basic idea. Here is what I would love to see: A LiveCodeLight downloadable from the mother ship. LiveCodeLight would be a stripped down version of the community edition that would not open the IDE, but would open and run stacks. Thanks, Brian for the idea. Is that a cool idea or what? Roger From rjearp99 at gmail.com Sat Mar 27 12:34:48 2021 From: rjearp99 at gmail.com (Robert J. Earp) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2021 09:34:48 -0700 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I too remember the good ?ol days Roger and in fact still have one of my eLearning shell projects that still runs stand-alone on both Catalina and Windows, although I?d have to check which version of Windows. The project has stacks calling stacks and external media. The MacOS stand-alone version is just a single file that I?ve shared without having to license from anybody, with what I?ve always assumed is a runtime engine packaged in it some how. The Windows version has an .exe and the media and externals are in separate folders and again I assume it has the Rev engine. I haven?t tried this with Big Sur. But going back to you suggestion, as you know I think LC has totally lost focus on what its heritage was, except maybe LC Server, if that still exists. If it does, you should be able to develop on whatever, deliver on a web server with LC Server loaded, and anybody could run the project anywhere there is a browser. Or along with willy and nilly have I totally lost it, which has been known on occasion !! best, Bob... > On Mar 27, 2021, at 09:00, use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com wrote: > > Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2021 19:45:21 -0700 > From: Roger Guay > > To: How to use LiveCode > > Subject: Re: New(?) Idea for Standalones > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > In the good ol days, I could build a standalone for the Mac, Windows and Linux and distribute it willy-nilly. Now I have to jump thru intolerable hoops (at least for the Mac) to give someone my standalone. if someone (hint. . .hint) could build a Livecode reader app for dirt cheap or even free w advertising that would run LC standalones, everything would be right in the world again! > > I think my martini is showing... > > Roger > >> On Mar 26, 2021, at 5:35 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode > wrote: >> >> What are you looking for? When were these "good ol days" in which one could run stack files without an engine, and how did that work? > Robert (Bob) Earp White Rock British Columbia Canada m: +1 604 612 6688 From dan at clearvisiontech.com Sat Mar 27 12:58:32 2021 From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2021 16:58:32 +0000 Subject: LC and Websockets Message-ID: <7DDDD9D8-C709-4A11-92DC-5729D260A5C6@clearvisiontech.com> Greetings! I've been looking around the boards and whatnot and see there has been some discussion about implementing web sockets in LiveCode. Has anyone come up with a library or a way to do this effectively for the Big 4 (Windows, Mac, iOS and Android)? Thanks in advance, Dan From prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org Sat Mar 27 13:18:28 2021 From: prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org (ELS Prothero) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2021 10:18:28 -0700 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <15279E8A-2998-4893-BF44-E6BBF65592BE@earthlearningsolutions.org> I thought that if you set up beta testers, with the id of the device an app would be run on, others could run your app as a beta tester. But, perhaps,you need an apple license to do even that? Bill William Prothero https://earthlearningsolutions.org > On Mar 26, 2021, at 10:10 PM, David Squance via use-livecode wrote: > > ?Thanks for the confirmation. > Dave > >> On Mar 26, 2021, at 10:05 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: >> >> You?re right, David. I was specifically addressing standalones for Mac, Windows and Linux. They are easily created without licenses etc. for use on your own computer, but cannot be distributed w/o licenses etc >> >> Roger >> >>>> On Mar 26, 2021, at 9:39 PM, David Squance via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> It was my understanding that iOS apps can?t even be created without a license from Apple. Mostly what I would want to share would be games I made for my grandson and he only uses iOS devices. >>> >>> I?ve never tried making a standalone for iOS, even for testing, because I didn?t think I could. Is that not the case? >>> >>> Dave >>> >>>> On Mar 26, 2021, at 3:54 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: >>>> >>>> Roger Guay wrote: >>>>> Has anyone thought of building a ?legal? and ?blessed" app for >>>>> Mac, WIndows and Linux that would open standalones for for each >>>>> of those platforms? Why put each of us through the agony (and >>>>> expense) of shifting/changing requirements to be able to easily >>>>> distribute standalones? Just as Microsoft Word is required to >>>>> open .doc files why not have something like LCreader app open >>>>> .livecode files >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From irog at mac.com Sat Mar 27 13:20:45 2021 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2021 10:20:45 -0700 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: A few days ago, a very impressive post came in here from a researcher at an accelerator lab somewhere. I?ve lost the post and may have some details wrong. As I recall he was very complimentary of LiveCode as a tool for his work but was lamenting that he could no longer easily share his work with colleagues. The idea of a LiveCodeLight downloadable from RunRev that opens and runs stacks without the IDE, would go a long way to solving his problem. Much better than a web served approach, IMHO. But, what do I know? Roger > On Mar 27, 2021, at 9:34 AM, Robert J. Earp via use-livecode wrote: > > But going back to you suggestion, as you know I think LC has totally lost focus on what its heritage was, except maybe LC Server, if that still exists. If it does, you should be able to develop on whatever, deliver on a web server with LC Server loaded, and anybody could run the project anywhere there is a browser. Or along with willy and nilly have I totally lost it, which has been known on occasion !! From irog at mac.com Sat Mar 27 13:27:52 2021 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2021 10:27:52 -0700 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: <15279E8A-2998-4893-BF44-E6BBF65592BE@earthlearningsolutions.org> References: <15279E8A-2998-4893-BF44-E6BBF65592BE@earthlearningsolutions.org> Message-ID: <78EB64CE-1010-423B-AED0-8CEA1B1ABF23@mac.com> Could be, but that requires you to be an Apple Developer. Too much hassle! A LiveCodeLight from RunRev that runs stacks without the IDE would be easier. Roger > On Mar 27, 2021, at 10:18 AM, ELS Prothero via use-livecode wrote: > > I thought that if you set up beta testers, with the id of the device an app would be run on, others could run your app as a beta tester. But, perhaps,you need an apple license to do even that? > Bill > > William Prothero > https://earthlearningsolutions.org > >> On Mar 26, 2021, at 10:10 PM, David Squance via use-livecode wrote: >> >> ?Thanks for the confirmation. >> Dave >> >>> On Mar 26, 2021, at 10:05 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> You?re right, David. I was specifically addressing standalones for Mac, Windows and Linux. They are easily created without licenses etc. for use on your own computer, but cannot be distributed w/o licenses etc >>> >>> Roger >>> >>>>> On Mar 26, 2021, at 9:39 PM, David Squance via use-livecode wrote: >>>> >>>> It was my understanding that iOS apps can?t even be created without a license from Apple. Mostly what I would want to share would be games I made for my grandson and he only uses iOS devices. >>>> >>>> I?ve never tried making a standalone for iOS, even for testing, because I didn?t think I could. Is that not the case? >>>> >>>> Dave >>>> >>>>> On Mar 26, 2021, at 3:54 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Roger Guay wrote: >>>>>> Has anyone thought of building a ?legal? and ?blessed" app for >>>>>> Mac, WIndows and Linux that would open standalones for for each >>>>>> of those platforms? Why put each of us through the agony (and >>>>>> expense) of shifting/changing requirements to be able to easily >>>>>> distribute standalones? Just as Microsoft Word is required to >>>>>> open .doc files why not have something like LCreader app open >>>>>> .livecode files >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sat Mar 27 13:36:41 2021 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2021 19:36:41 +0200 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: <78EB64CE-1010-423B-AED0-8CEA1B1ABF23@mac.com> References: <15279E8A-2998-4893-BF44-E6BBF65592BE@earthlearningsolutions.org> <78EB64CE-1010-423B-AED0-8CEA1B1ABF23@mac.com> Message-ID: <73bd221e-c7de-2a81-ac31-cd06ce1b2cdf@gmail.com> Maybe I'm missing something, but what would be the advantage of using stack runner over a standalone? Richmond. On 27.03.21 19:27, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: > Could be, but that requires you to be an Apple Developer. Too much hassle! A LiveCodeLight from RunRev that runs stacks without the IDE would be easier. > > Roger > > >> On Mar 27, 2021, at 10:18 AM, ELS Prothero via use-livecode wrote: >> >> I thought that if you set up beta testers, with the id of the device an app would be run on, others could run your app as a beta tester. But, perhaps,you need an apple license to do even that? >> Bill >> >> William Prothero >> https://earthlearningsolutions.org >> >>> On Mar 26, 2021, at 10:10 PM, David Squance via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> ?Thanks for the confirmation. >>> Dave >>> >>>> On Mar 26, 2021, at 10:05 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: >>>> >>>> You?re right, David. I was specifically addressing standalones for Mac, Windows and Linux. They are easily created without licenses etc. for use on your own computer, but cannot be distributed w/o licenses etc >>>> >>>> Roger >>>> >>>>>> On Mar 26, 2021, at 9:39 PM, David Squance via use-livecode wrote: >>>>> It was my understanding that iOS apps can?t even be created without a license from Apple. Mostly what I would want to share would be games I made for my grandson and he only uses iOS devices. >>>>> >>>>> I?ve never tried making a standalone for iOS, even for testing, because I didn?t think I could. Is that not the case? >>>>> >>>>> Dave >>>>> >>>>>> On Mar 26, 2021, at 3:54 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Roger Guay wrote: >>>>>>> Has anyone thought of building a ?legal? and ?blessed" app for >>>>>>> Mac, WIndows and Linux that would open standalones for for each >>>>>>> of those platforms? Why put each of us through the agony (and >>>>>>> expense) of shifting/changing requirements to be able to easily >>>>>>> distribute standalones? Just as Microsoft Word is required to >>>>>>> open .doc files why not have something like LCreader app open >>>>>>> .livecode files >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From irog at mac.com Sat Mar 27 13:44:59 2021 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2021 10:44:59 -0700 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: <73bd221e-c7de-2a81-ac31-cd06ce1b2cdf@gmail.com> References: <15279E8A-2998-4893-BF44-E6BBF65592BE@earthlearningsolutions.org> <78EB64CE-1010-423B-AED0-8CEA1B1ABF23@mac.com> <73bd221e-c7de-2a81-ac31-cd06ce1b2cdf@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3D80DFB1-D7F9-4E87-A9AF-812F27F9EE31@mac.com> A couple of things. The developer is not even required to build a standalone, and presumably it would be easier to strip out or hide the IDE of LiveCodeLight. Otherwise, either way is good. Roger > On Mar 27, 2021, at 10:36 AM, Richmond via use-livecode wrote: > > Maybe I'm missing something, but what would be the advantage of using stack runner > over a standalone? > > Richmond. From preid at reidit.co.uk Sat Mar 27 14:12:28 2021 From: preid at reidit.co.uk (preid at reidit.co.uk) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2021 18:12:28 +0000 Subject: Unreliable File Deletion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3526350E-0610-467A-9CFE-F5FFEFF8B776@reidit.co.uk> Hi Has anyone had problems with file deletion by LC under Windows 10? According to the docs the following commands should delete a file: delete file pathname open file pathname for write Also the shell() command sequence: put UnixToWinPath(pFile) into pWinFile put "del " & quote & pWinFile & quote into tCmd set the hideConsoleWindows to true put shell(tCmd) into tRes With various versions of LC including the latest 9.6.2 RC3 I get the following behaviour: 1. The file is deleted correctly. 2. The file appears to be deleted but any new version written to the same folder is actually the old version. 3. The deletion fails with a failure comment returned in the Result. 4. The deletion seems to work but the next attempt to save a file of the same name fails, reported by the Result. I'm getting this problem when tested on a brand new up-to-date virtual Windows 10 Home 64-bit and a similar PC laptop. It's not a problem on the Mac. Any ideas please? Thanks Peter -- Peter Reid Loughborough, UK From preid at reidit.co.uk Sat Mar 27 14:13:48 2021 From: preid at reidit.co.uk (preid at reidit.co.uk) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2021 18:13:48 +0000 Subject: Unreliable File Deletion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <406A45F7-B252-48FC-85AD-E9A6501B8516@reidit.co.uk> Hi Has anyone had problems with file deletion by LC under Windows 10? According to the docs the following commands should delete a file: delete file pathname open file pathname for write Also the shell() command sequence: put UnixToWinPath(pFile) into pWinFile put "del " & quote & pWinFile & quote into tCmd set the hideConsoleWindows to true put shell(tCmd) into tRes With various versions of LC including the latest 9.6.2 RC3 I get the following behaviour: 1. The file is deleted correctly. 2. The file appears to be deleted but any new version written to the same folder is actually the old version. 3. The deletion fails with a failure comment returned in the Result. 4. The deletion seems to work but the next attempt to save a file of the same name fails, reported by the Result. I'm getting this problem when tested on a brand new up-to-date virtual Windows 10 Home 64-bit and a similar PC laptop. It's not a problem on the Mac. Any ideas please? Thanks Peter -- Peter Reid Loughborough, UK From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sat Mar 27 14:29:25 2021 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2021 11:29:25 -0700 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <63b01206-58ad-100e-4017-2cebf751d040@fourthworld.com> Roger Guay wrote: > On Mar 26, 2021, at 5:35 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > >> What are you looking for? When were these "good ol days" >> in which one could run stack files without an engine, and >> how did that work? > > In the good ol days, I could build a standalone for the Mac, > Windows and Linux and distribute it willy-nilly. Now I have to > jump thru intolerable hoops (at least for the Mac) to give > someone my standalone. if someone (hint. . .hint) could build > a Livecode reader app for dirt cheap or even free w advertising > that would run LC standalones, everything would be right in the > world again! > > I think my martini is showing... After I read that I poured myself two fingers of whiskey and sat back enjoying the memories you conjured. Good thoughts. Thanks. In those days we made software for single users to run on a single computer running one brand of OS. The web had barely been invented, the Internet not yet privatized for general use, and "cloud" was still called "mainframe". It was a much simpler time. I miss those days myself. The hoops we now jump through to deliver apps are OS vendors responding to an evolving need to establish trust in hostile connected environments. As software opportunities have expanded, they've for everyone, good and bad actors alike. My response to Alex was apparently too long to be read, but I touched on this in third block, re "security", re implications for a player as well: http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2021-March/263948.html > This conversation has given me some focus and clarification of the > basic idea. Here is what I would love to see: A LiveCodeLight > downloadable from the mother ship. Why specifically from the mother ship? Or to put it in business terms, which features/bug fixes would you be willing to see dropped so the company could commit to making and maintaining yet another project? In addition to the opportunity cost to the company, there's also the segment who would use it as an alternative to maintaining a current license, resulting in at least some degree of revenue cannibalization. And while the upside is non-zero, it's limited to a slender subset of promotional value opportunities which could more easily be attained with nearly any marketing strategy at lower cost, and in ways that more directly feed their funnel. Moreover, a player produces no direct revenue, but maintenance and support obligations create immediate (if modest) direct payroll impact. Free software isn't free to make and maintain. > LiveCodeLight would be a stripped down version of the community > edition that would not open the IDE, but would open and run stacks. > > Thanks, Brian for the idea. > > Is that a cool idea or what? Also addressed in my earlier post (some day I'll learn to write less here). The close of that post suggested this might make a good community project, and described how simple it could be if anyone here really wanted something that rudimentary. But (for the reasons also described in that post) it would have to be with Community, which raises two questions not yet answered in any subsequent reply: How many who would use a generic player would be willing to relicense their works under GPL, as would be required if distributed via the GPL-governed Community Edition. And with Community's role in LC's business as a sort of freemium offer, how many projects might one want to distribute with a player which use absolutely none of any features found only in the proprietary editions, Indy and Business? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sat Mar 27 14:41:56 2021 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2021 20:41:56 +0200 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: <63b01206-58ad-100e-4017-2cebf751d040@fourthworld.com> References: <63b01206-58ad-100e-4017-2cebf751d040@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: I despair . . . how could one lower oneself to two fingers of 'whiskey'? Just now I am enjoying a glass of whisky (without the offending 'e'). Richmond. On 27.03.21 20:29, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > Roger Guay wrote: > >> On Mar 26, 2021, at 5:35 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> >>> What are you looking for?? When were these "good ol days" >>> in which one could run stack files without an engine, and >>> how did that work? >> >> In the good ol days, I could build a standalone for the Mac, >> Windows and Linux and distribute it willy-nilly. Now I have to >> jump thru intolerable hoops (at least for the Mac) to give >> someone my standalone. if someone (hint. . .hint) could build >> a Livecode reader app for dirt cheap or even free w advertising >> that would run LC standalones, everything would be right in the >> world again! >> >> I think my martini is showing... > > After I read that I poured myself two fingers of whiskey and sat back > enjoying the memories you conjured. Good thoughts. Thanks. > > In those days we made software for single users to run on a single > computer running one brand of OS. > > The web had barely been invented, the Internet not yet privatized for > general use, and "cloud" was still called "mainframe". > > It was a much simpler time. I miss those days myself. > > > The hoops we now jump through to deliver apps are OS vendors > responding to an evolving need to establish trust in hostile connected > environments. > > As software opportunities have expanded, they've for everyone, good > and bad actors alike. > > My response to Alex was apparently too long to be read, but I touched > on this in third block, re "security", re implications for a player as > well: > http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2021-March/263948.html > > > >> This conversation has given me some focus and clarification of the >> basic idea. Here is what I would love to see: A LiveCodeLight >> downloadable from the mother ship. > > Why specifically from the mother ship? > > Or to put it in business terms, which features/bug fixes would you be > willing to see dropped so the company could commit to making and > maintaining yet another project? > > In addition to the opportunity cost to the company, there's also the > segment who would use it as an alternative to maintaining a current > license, resulting in at least some degree of revenue cannibalization. > > And while the upside is non-zero, it's limited to a slender subset of > promotional value opportunities which could more easily be attained > with nearly any marketing strategy at lower cost, and in ways that > more directly feed their funnel. > > Moreover, a player produces no direct revenue, but maintenance and > support obligations create immediate (if modest) direct payroll impact. > > Free software isn't free to make and maintain. > > >> LiveCodeLight would be a stripped down version of the community >> edition that would not open the IDE, but would open and run stacks. >> >> Thanks, Brian for the idea. >> >> Is that a cool idea or what? > > Also addressed in my earlier post (some day I'll learn to write less > here). > > The close of that post suggested this might make a good community > project, and described how simple it could be if anyone here really > wanted something that rudimentary. > > But (for the reasons also described in that post) it would have to be > with Community, which raises two questions not yet answered in any > subsequent reply: > > How many who would use a generic player would be willing to relicense > their works under GPL, as would be required if distributed via the > GPL-governed Community Edition. > > And with Community's role in LC's business as a sort of freemium > offer, how many projects might one want to distribute with a player > which use absolutely none of any features found only in the > proprietary editions, Indy and Business? > From alex at tweedly.net Sat Mar 27 14:47:45 2021 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2021 18:47:45 +0000 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: <63b01206-58ad-100e-4017-2cebf751d040@fourthworld.com> References: <63b01206-58ad-100e-4017-2cebf751d040@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <83a93073-c3a9-dc56-50bf-9b594d2b4127@tweedly.net> On 27/03/2021 18:29, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > My response to Alex was apparently too long to be read, but I touched > on this in third block, re "security", re implications for a player as > well: > http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2021-March/263948.html > Not at all "too long to be read";? just too long to take in quickly and make coherent responses. I won't even start on that until I've finished fulminating over your misspelling of whisky - but a response (or two) will come. Alex. From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat Mar 27 18:22:34 2021 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2021 17:22:34 -0500 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: <63b01206-58ad-100e-4017-2cebf751d040@fourthworld.com> References: <63b01206-58ad-100e-4017-2cebf751d040@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Roger Guay wrote: > > In the good ol days, I could build a standalone for the Mac, > Windows and Linux and distribute it willy-nilly. On desktop you still can, sort of, if you don't mind instructing your users how to get around the security blocks that both Windows and Mac OS have adopted. If your users are just family and friends, this is viable. Someone more familiar with Linux can say whether this method works there. Here is a skeletal outline off the top of my head (so I may have missed something,) but it should give you the idea. A "runner" app is easy to make, basically a stack with one card and a single button. The button script: on mouseup answer file "Choose a stack to open:" if it is empty then exit to top go stack it end mouseup Add an openStack handler on the card so that resources can be shared: on openStack start using this stack end openStack That's the whole stack. Now set up standalone settings for the desired build platform. Include all extensions, libraries, widgets, etc. that your stacks need, or you think they might need in the future. Your app will be limited to the inclusions your license permits. Build the app. Send it to friends along with your stacks. Now the part where you do some explaining. Since the app isn't notarized by Apple or authorized by Microsoft, explain to them how to bypass the blockage and get the app to open. They only need to do this once on first launch. There are lots of hits if you search for "how to open unnotarized app on big sur" or "open unauthorized app on windows." Here's one for Mac OS: And one for Windows: This won't work for mobile apps, though with some adjustments you can build a runner app for Android if you're willing to distribute from the internet. Also note: The stacks you distribute cannot violate the LC license agreement. They can't reproduce IDE features or allow users to do things that only a licensed user can do. Please don't violate the license agreement; we all want LC to prosper. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From irog at mac.com Sat Mar 27 19:15:30 2021 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2021 16:15:30 -0700 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: References: <63b01206-58ad-100e-4017-2cebf751d040@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <4D36D1DD-F6CC-4DA6-B06D-AEF65697C75A@mac.com> Jacque, You always come thru with such great clarity and thoroughness. I remember going thru this process a few years ago, but I thought this back door approach was closed by Apple within the last couple of OS releases. Indeed, looking at my Security&Privacy tab of System Preferences in OS 11.2, I do not see the ?Open Anyway? button as illustrated in your link for Mac OS. Is it possible this button only appears if the OS senses that user is trying to open an unauthorized app? Roger > On Mar 27, 2021, at 3:22 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > > Roger Guay wrote: >> >> In the good ol days, I could build a standalone for the Mac, >> Windows and Linux and distribute it willy-nilly. > > On desktop you still can, sort of, if you don't mind instructing your users how to get around the security blocks that both Windows and Mac OS have adopted. If your users are just family and friends, this is viable. Someone more familiar with Linux can say whether this method works there. > > Here is a skeletal outline off the top of my head (so I may have missed something,) but it should give you the idea. A "runner" app is easy to make, basically a stack with one card and a single button. The button script: > > on mouseup > answer file "Choose a stack to open:" > if it is empty then exit to top > go stack it > end mouseup > > Add an openStack handler on the card so that resources can be shared: > > on openStack > start using this stack > end openStack > > > That's the whole stack. Now set up standalone settings for the desired build platform. Include all extensions, libraries, widgets, etc. that your stacks need, or you think they might need in the future. Your app will be limited to the inclusions your license permits. > > Build the app. Send it to friends along with your stacks. > > Now the part where you do some explaining. Since the app isn't notarized by Apple or authorized by Microsoft, explain to them how to bypass the blockage and get the app to open. They only need to do this once on first launch. There are lots of hits if you search for "how to open unnotarized app on big sur" or "open unauthorized app on windows." > > Here's one for Mac OS: > > And one for Windows: > > This won't work for mobile apps, though with some adjustments you can build a runner app for Android if you're willing to distribute from the internet. > > Also note: The stacks you distribute cannot violate the LC license agreement. They can't reproduce IDE features or allow users to do things that only a licensed user can do. Please don't violate the license agreement; we all want LC to prosper. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From scott at elementarysoftware.com Sat Mar 27 19:56:23 2021 From: scott at elementarysoftware.com (scott at elementarysoftware.com) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2021 16:56:23 -0700 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: <4D36D1DD-F6CC-4DA6-B06D-AEF65697C75A@mac.com> References: <63b01206-58ad-100e-4017-2cebf751d040@fourthworld.com> <4D36D1DD-F6CC-4DA6-B06D-AEF65697C75A@mac.com> Message-ID: Roger, Yes, I believe it is on an individual app basis that occurs at the time the app is being first opened. ? Scott > On Mar 27, 2021, at 4:15 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: > > Jacque, > > You always come thru with such great clarity and thoroughness. I remember going thru this process a few years ago, but I thought this back door approach was closed by Apple within the last couple of OS releases. Indeed, looking at my Security&Privacy tab of System Preferences in OS 11.2, I do not see the ?Open Anyway? button as illustrated in your link for Mac OS. Is it possible this button only appears if the OS senses that user is trying to open an unauthorized app? > > Roger > > > >> On Mar 27, 2021, at 3:22 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Roger Guay wrote: >>> >>> In the good ol days, I could build a standalone for the Mac, >>> Windows and Linux and distribute it willy-nilly. >> >> On desktop you still can, sort of, if you don't mind instructing your users how to get around the security blocks that both Windows and Mac OS have adopted. If your users are just family and friends, this is viable. Someone more familiar with Linux can say whether this method works there. >> >> Here is a skeletal outline off the top of my head (so I may have missed something,) but it should give you the idea. A "runner" app is easy to make, basically a stack with one card and a single button. The button script: >> >> on mouseup >> answer file "Choose a stack to open:" >> if it is empty then exit to top >> go stack it >> end mouseup >> >> Add an openStack handler on the card so that resources can be shared: >> >> on openStack >> start using this stack >> end openStack >> >> >> That's the whole stack. Now set up standalone settings for the desired build platform. Include all extensions, libraries, widgets, etc. that your stacks need, or you think they might need in the future. Your app will be limited to the inclusions your license permits. >> >> Build the app. Send it to friends along with your stacks. >> >> Now the part where you do some explaining. Since the app isn't notarized by Apple or authorized by Microsoft, explain to them how to bypass the blockage and get the app to open. They only need to do this once on first launch. There are lots of hits if you search for "how to open unnotarized app on big sur" or "open unauthorized app on windows." >> >> Here's one for Mac OS: >> >> And one for Windows: >> >> This won't work for mobile apps, though with some adjustments you can build a runner app for Android if you're willing to distribute from the internet. >> >> Also note: The stacks you distribute cannot violate the LC license agreement. They can't reproduce IDE features or allow users to do things that only a licensed user can do. Please don't violate the license agreement; we all want LC to prosper. >> >> -- >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From alex at tweedly.net Sat Mar 27 21:31:42 2021 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2021 02:31:42 +0100 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: <26aeb614-4a77-5b92-5f7f-cd55c53bd50c@fourthworld.com> References: <93dc8e7f-94a2-0301-7884-59ad686a065c@tweedly.net> <26aeb614-4a77-5b92-5f7f-cd55c53bd50c@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On 27/03/2021 02:43, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > This makes the Community Edition a natural fit for a generic player, > since the proliferation the license explicitly encourages would be > very much with the grain of its goals. > > But then we have to ask: how many of those who might enjoy a generic > player embrace the GPL with the stacks they'd like to distribute it with? hmmm - I don't get that bit. The generic player would be built with Community Edition - and hence must be GPL-compliant. However, the stacks it "plays" are merely documents. GPL is (afaiu) clear that documents viewed (or indeed created) by GPL apps are not covered by the GPL - i.e. it does not proliferate into the stacks. The stacks are not in any way derivative of the player. So I could build a stack with my Indy license, and distribute that under any restrictive licensing terms I choose, but use the CE/GPL compliant player app to run them. Of course, the source of the stacks would be visible, but there wouldn't seem to be any requirement on which licensing terms I apply to that stack. Or, I may be misunderstanding GPL again - I have done on many occasions since I first hired a developer to work on gcc back in the mid-80s :-) Alex. From irog at mac.com Sat Mar 27 22:17:53 2021 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2021 19:17:53 -0700 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: <63b01206-58ad-100e-4017-2cebf751d040@fourthworld.com> References: <63b01206-58ad-100e-4017-2cebf751d040@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <5FF1AA56-6C75-49DA-9A5F-12F5FDC359DB@mac.com> Thank you, Richard for these responses . . . some of which I will have to consider for a while to better understand. But I still think this idea has merit, is very easy to do and maintain and makes Livecode even more attractive to prospective customers, especially those who require easy collaboration with colleagues And BTW, I don?t care who builds it, but it seems a natural for RunRev. Roger > On Mar 27, 2021, at 11:29 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > Roger Guay wrote: > > > On Mar 26, 2021, at 5:35 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > > >> What are you looking for? When were these "good ol days" > >> in which one could run stack files without an engine, and > >> how did that work? > > > > In the good ol days, I could build a standalone for the Mac, > > Windows and Linux and distribute it willy-nilly. Now I have to > > jump thru intolerable hoops (at least for the Mac) to give > > someone my standalone. if someone (hint. . .hint) could build > > a Livecode reader app for dirt cheap or even free w advertising > > that would run LC standalones, everything would be right in the > > world again! > > > > I think my martini is showing... > > After I read that I poured myself two fingers of whiskey and sat back enjoying the memories you conjured. Good thoughts. Thanks. > > In those days we made software for single users to run on a single computer running one brand of OS. > > The web had barely been invented, the Internet not yet privatized for general use, and "cloud" was still called "mainframe". > > It was a much simpler time. I miss those days myself. > > > The hoops we now jump through to deliver apps are OS vendors responding to an evolving need to establish trust in hostile connected environments. > > As software opportunities have expanded, they've for everyone, good and bad actors alike. > > My response to Alex was apparently too long to be read, but I touched on this in third block, re "security", re implications for a player as well: > http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2021-March/263948.html > > > > > This conversation has given me some focus and clarification of the > > basic idea. Here is what I would love to see: A LiveCodeLight > > downloadable from the mother ship. > > Why specifically from the mother ship? > > Or to put it in business terms, which features/bug fixes would you be willing to see dropped so the company could commit to making and maintaining yet another project? > > In addition to the opportunity cost to the company, there's also the segment who would use it as an alternative to maintaining a current license, resulting in at least some degree of revenue cannibalization. > > And while the upside is non-zero, it's limited to a slender subset of promotional value opportunities which could more easily be attained with nearly any marketing strategy at lower cost, and in ways that more directly feed their funnel. > > Moreover, a player produces no direct revenue, but maintenance and support obligations create immediate (if modest) direct payroll impact. > > Free software isn't free to make and maintain. > > > > LiveCodeLight would be a stripped down version of the community > > edition that would not open the IDE, but would open and run stacks. > > > > Thanks, Brian for the idea. > > > > Is that a cool idea or what? > > Also addressed in my earlier post (some day I'll learn to write less here). > > The close of that post suggested this might make a good community project, and described how simple it could be if anyone here really wanted something that rudimentary. > > But (for the reasons also described in that post) it would have to be with Community, which raises two questions not yet answered in any subsequent reply: > > How many who would use a generic player would be willing to relicense their works under GPL, as would be required if distributed via the GPL-governed Community Edition. > > And with Community's role in LC's business as a sort of freemium offer, how many projects might one want to distribute with a player which use absolutely none of any features found only in the proprietary editions, Indy and Business? > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From irog at mac.com Sat Mar 27 22:23:48 2021 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2021 19:23:48 -0700 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: References: <63b01206-58ad-100e-4017-2cebf751d040@fourthworld.com> <4D36D1DD-F6CC-4DA6-B06D-AEF65697C75A@mac.com> Message-ID: <9D7DEA99-C7EE-4F0D-82CA-30B763FF11F6@mac.com> Thanks, Scott. I will be testing all this in the next day or so and will report. Roger > On Mar 27, 2021, at 4:56 PM, scott--- via use-livecode wrote: > > Roger, > Yes, I believe it is on an individual app basis that occurs at the time the app is being first opened. > ? > Scott > >> On Mar 27, 2021, at 4:15 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Jacque, >> >> You always come thru with such great clarity and thoroughness. I remember going thru this process a few years ago, but I thought this back door approach was closed by Apple within the last couple of OS releases. Indeed, looking at my Security&Privacy tab of System Preferences in OS 11.2, I do not see the ?Open Anyway? button as illustrated in your link for Mac OS. Is it possible this button only appears if the OS senses that user is trying to open an unauthorized app? >> >> Roger >> >> >> >>> On Mar 27, 2021, at 3:22 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> Roger Guay wrote: >>>> >>>> In the good ol days, I could build a standalone for the Mac, >>>> Windows and Linux and distribute it willy-nilly. >>> >>> On desktop you still can, sort of, if you don't mind instructing your users how to get around the security blocks that both Windows and Mac OS have adopted. If your users are just family and friends, this is viable. Someone more familiar with Linux can say whether this method works there. >>> >>> Here is a skeletal outline off the top of my head (so I may have missed something,) but it should give you the idea. A "runner" app is easy to make, basically a stack with one card and a single button. The button script: >>> >>> on mouseup >>> answer file "Choose a stack to open:" >>> if it is empty then exit to top >>> go stack it >>> end mouseup >>> >>> Add an openStack handler on the card so that resources can be shared: >>> >>> on openStack >>> start using this stack >>> end openStack >>> >>> >>> That's the whole stack. Now set up standalone settings for the desired build platform. Include all extensions, libraries, widgets, etc. that your stacks need, or you think they might need in the future. Your app will be limited to the inclusions your license permits. >>> >>> Build the app. Send it to friends along with your stacks. >>> >>> Now the part where you do some explaining. Since the app isn't notarized by Apple or authorized by Microsoft, explain to them how to bypass the blockage and get the app to open. They only need to do this once on first launch. There are lots of hits if you search for "how to open unnotarized app on big sur" or "open unauthorized app on windows." >>> >>> Here's one for Mac OS: >>> >>> And one for Windows: >>> >>> This won't work for mobile apps, though with some adjustments you can build a runner app for Android if you're willing to distribute from the internet. >>> >>> Also note: The stacks you distribute cannot violate the LC license agreement. They can't reproduce IDE features or allow users to do things that only a licensed user can do. Please don't violate the license agreement; we all want LC to prosper. >>> >>> -- >>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From irog at mac.com Sat Mar 27 23:10:22 2021 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2021 20:10:22 -0700 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: <9D7DEA99-C7EE-4F0D-82CA-30B763FF11F6@mac.com> References: <63b01206-58ad-100e-4017-2cebf751d040@fourthworld.com> <4D36D1DD-F6CC-4DA6-B06D-AEF65697C75A@mac.com> <9D7DEA99-C7EE-4F0D-82CA-30B763FF11F6@mac.com> Message-ID: <441D85DA-47E1-4B26-BB94-A032D348CB3F@mac.com> Here is a report on the back door approach to opening a standalone on MAC OS 11.2: I built a stack precisely as Jacqueline specified and made a Mac standalone of it. I checked to make sure it worked on my own computer. I then sent the standalone to my wife?s computer ? another Mac running the same OS 11.2. Double-clicking the standalone on her computer, resulted is a simple screen with this message: You do not have permission to open the application ?StackOmatic?. ?Contact your computer or network administrator for assistance? with a single ?OK? button. I then checked System Preferences - Security & Privacy - General Tab. There was no ?Open Anyway? button. Dead in the water! I humbly submit that we need a LiveCodeLight app from a certified developer that runs stacks without the IDE!!!! Roge From dev at porta.ca Sat Mar 27 23:33:04 2021 From: dev at porta.ca (Dev) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2021 21:33:04 -0600 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: <441D85DA-47E1-4B26-BB94-A032D348CB3F@mac.com> References: <63b01206-58ad-100e-4017-2cebf751d040@fourthworld.com> <4D36D1DD-F6CC-4DA6-B06D-AEF65697C75A@mac.com> <9D7DEA99-C7EE-4F0D-82CA-30B763FF11F6@mac.com> <441D85DA-47E1-4B26-BB94-A032D348CB3F@mac.com> Message-ID: <2BFE6B45-E0DA-40EB-B0A6-634B253FA3E9@porta.ca> Roger On your wife?s machine - if you right click the app and choose Open from the context menu, do you get more options about opening? If you adjust settings in the Security and Privacy System Preferences can you downgrade standards to allow a one time opening? If neither of these work, then it seems that the player app will need to be notarized and perhaps even stapled. If one of the already certified developers were to make such an app using their credentials, perhaps the rest of us could just download it from their site and play our own stacks with it. Interested in anyone else?s thoughts on work arounds to Apple?s security. Kelly > On 27 Mar, 2021, at 9:10 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: > > > Here is a report on the back door approach to opening a standalone on MAC OS 11.2: > > I built a stack precisely as Jacqueline specified and made a Mac standalone of it. I checked to make sure it worked on my own computer. I then sent the standalone to my wife?s computer ? another Mac running the same OS 11.2. Double-clicking the standalone on her computer, resulted is a simple screen with this message: You do not have permission to open the application ?StackOmatic?. ?Contact your computer or network administrator for assistance? with a single ?OK? button. > > I then checked System Preferences - Security & Privacy - General Tab. There was no ?Open Anyway? button. > > Dead in the water! > > I humbly submit that we need a LiveCodeLight app from a certified developer that runs stacks without the IDE!!!! > > Roge > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From scott at elementarysoftware.com Sun Mar 28 03:24:28 2021 From: scott at elementarysoftware.com (scott at elementarysoftware.com) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2021 00:24:28 -0700 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: <2BFE6B45-E0DA-40EB-B0A6-634B253FA3E9@porta.ca> References: <63b01206-58ad-100e-4017-2cebf751d040@fourthworld.com> <4D36D1DD-F6CC-4DA6-B06D-AEF65697C75A@mac.com> <9D7DEA99-C7EE-4F0D-82CA-30B763FF11F6@mac.com> <441D85DA-47E1-4B26-BB94-A032D348CB3F@mac.com> <2BFE6B45-E0DA-40EB-B0A6-634B253FA3E9@porta.ca> Message-ID: <17CB0F38-170D-4DAC-B62B-8E5B94AE62C3@elementarysoftware.com> Kelly is correct. While holding down the control key, click and hold (or right click) to get an additional menu allowing you to choose to open the app. ? Scott > On Mar 27, 2021, at 8:33 PM, Dev via use-livecode wrote: > > Roger > > On your wife?s machine - if you right click the app and choose Open from the context menu, do you get more options about opening? > > If you adjust settings in the Security and Privacy System Preferences can you downgrade standards to allow a one time opening? > > If neither of these work, then it seems that the player app will need to be notarized and perhaps even stapled. If one of the already certified developers were to make such an app using their credentials, perhaps the rest of us could just download it from their site and play our own stacks with it. > > Interested in anyone else?s thoughts on work arounds to Apple?s security. > > Kelly > >> On 27 Mar, 2021, at 9:10 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: >> >> >> Here is a report on the back door approach to opening a standalone on MAC OS 11.2: >> >> I built a stack precisely as Jacqueline specified and made a Mac standalone of it. I checked to make sure it worked on my own computer. I then sent the standalone to my wife?s computer ? another Mac running the same OS 11.2. Double-clicking the standalone on her computer, resulted is a simple screen with this message: You do not have permission to open the application ?StackOmatic?. ?Contact your computer or network administrator for assistance? with a single ?OK? button. >> >> I then checked System Preferences - Security & Privacy - General Tab. There was no ?Open Anyway? button. >> >> Dead in the water! >> >> I humbly submit that we need a LiveCodeLight app from a certified developer that runs stacks without the IDE!!!! >> >> Roge >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From roland.huettmann at gmail.com Sun Mar 28 13:11:15 2021 From: roland.huettmann at gmail.com (R.H.) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2021 19:11:15 +0200 Subject: Unreliable File Deletion Message-ID: @ Peter Reid Your message found my attention. Also I am working on Windows 10 and have the same problem using LC 9.6.1 Indy version. The problem with copying text to the clipboard and then pasting it into other applications results in inserting double lines. I think there was a discussion about the clipboard on the forum or here recently. Instead of directly copying the text, I create a temp file temp.txt, insert the text to be copied, then read the file and then I can paste the text reliably. The file is then deleted. The similar or same problem as you have: I want to delete the text file. The command I issue is "detele file ". The error it returns: "Can't delete file". So, I tried using a forced Shell command which did not work (probably it needs Admin rights). But the standard Shell command deletes the file. Here is the script snippet: // The original purpose of using this script as part of a larger script is to copy column names of a database table to the clipboard and insert them anywhere. ## Script snippet calling Shell (Windows 10/64) // Save data to external file to get rid of wrong carriage returns in Windows // Copy data as text to the clipboard // Space are replaced by "." for this message list // A temporary text file is created and shall be deleted after usage // tOut contains the resulting data from before... // myMsg is a separate custom message handler that directs messages either to the message box, writes to a log file or places the message into a field, or all together...) ... local tOut ... local tFilePath ... local tResult ... local tCmd ... put specialfolderpath("resources") &"/temp.txt" into tFilePath ... put tOut into URL("binfile:"&tFilePath) ... put URL("binfile:"&tFilePath) into tOut ... set the clipboarddata["text"] to tOut ... // Delete temp file ... delete file ("binfile:"&tFilePath) ... put the result into tResult ... if "can't delete that file" is in tResult then ...... myMSG tHInfo & "File could not be deleted." &CR& tFilePath --> My message handler ...... if the platform is "win32" then ......... set the hideConsoleWindows to true ......... replace "/" with "\" in tFilePath ......... put quote & tFilePath & quote into tFilePath ......... put "del "&tFilePath into tCmd -- this shell command works for me ......... put shell(tCmd) into tResult ......... put CR& the result after tResult ......... /* Comment: Error messages appear when using "rmdir /s /q" ......... to force delete the file ......... Error message: Invalid switch - "Users". */ ......... myMSG tHInfo & tResult --> My message handler ...... end if ... end if ##/ End script snipped So, if other users have the problem that a file cannot be deleted with the "delete file" command (even though it he file tit is not flagged as part of another process or flagged as "cant delete") then this seems to be a bug. I would report it if I am not the only one seeing the problem. Roland From klaus at major-k.de Sun Mar 28 13:22:26 2021 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2021 19:22:26 +0200 Subject: Unreliable File Deletion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6A4E35DF-529B-4E11-BAD3-3F4A8CBBF476@major-k.de> Hi friends, > Am 28.03.2021 um 19:11 schrieb R.H. via use-livecode : > ... > ... put specialfolderpath("resources") &"/temp.txt" into tFilePath > ... put tOut into URL("binfile:"&tFilePath) > ... you may already know this, but this will not work in a standalone! We will surely not have write permissions in that folder! As a workaround I would probably use -> specialfolderpath("temporary") Or even write the text to -> the tempname Both are available on all platform and you do not have to think about deleting that file later, the OS will take care of this. :-) Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org Sun Mar 28 13:28:44 2021 From: prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org (ELS Prothero) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2021 10:28:44 -0700 Subject: Unreliable File Deletion In-Reply-To: <6A4E35DF-529B-4E11-BAD3-3F4A8CBBF476@major-k.de> References: <6A4E35DF-529B-4E11-BAD3-3F4A8CBBF476@major-k.de> Message-ID: <26E78756-3110-4FB7-8A84-6D18AB82964E@earthlearningsolutions.org> Folks, This alarms me. In my app, I write a file to specialFolderpath(?desktop?). What are the conditions to make this work on Apple or Windows standalones? Bill William Prothero https://earthlearningsolutions.org > On Mar 28, 2021, at 10:22 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > > ?Hi friends, > >> Am 28.03.2021 um 19:11 schrieb R.H. via use-livecode : >> ... >> ... put specialfolderpath("resources") &"/temp.txt" into tFilePath >> ... put tOut into URL("binfile:"&tFilePath) >> ... > > you may already know this, but this will not work in a standalone! > We will surely not have write permissions in that folder! > > As a workaround I would probably use -> specialfolderpath("temporary") > Or even write the text to -> the tempname > > Both are available on all platform and you do not have to think about > deleting that file later, the OS will take care of this. :-) > > > Best > > Klaus > -- > Klaus Major > https://www.major-k.de > https://www.major-k.de/bass > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From derek-lcl at speedbump.io Sun Mar 28 14:24:23 2021 From: derek-lcl at speedbump.io (Derek Bump) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2021 13:24:23 -0500 Subject: Help with androidStartAudioPlayingInBackground() Message-ID: <819a847b-f6e3-e424-2116-773b02f1ee13@speedbump.io> Hello Everyone, I was wondering if anyone has insight into the usage of "androidStartAudioPlayingInBackground()", or can confirm that it works? I setup a test stack that attempts to play a public domain MP3 using the following script but nothing plays. I receive nothing from the function, and I'm getting the following in logcat: LiveCode: JNI exception thrown when calling native method on mouseUp ?? local tFile ?? put specialFolderPath("engine") & "/" & "spring_song.mp3" into tFile ?? if there is not a file tFile then ????? answer "File not found:" && tFile ?? end if ?? put androidStartAudioPlayingInBackground(tFile) into card field "result" ?? -- logcat: LiveCode: JNI exception thrown when calling native method end mouseUp I've tested this build using Community 9.6.2 (rc3) and 9.0.5, on an Android 9.0 Virtual Device and a Android 9.0 phone. Same result across the board, nothing plays. I did test and confirm the ability to play the audio file with "mobilePlaySoundOnChannel", but I need background playback for my project to work. Also, I searched the LiveCode Quality Control site for existing bugs (no results) and searched the forum a bit. Does anyone have any ideas? Here is my test stack if you're willing to give it a shot on your end: https://www.speedbump.io/shared/backgroundPlayTest.minimal.zip Thank you in advance, Derek Bump From tore.nilsen at me.com Sun Mar 28 14:40:12 2021 From: tore.nilsen at me.com (Tore Nilsen) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2021 20:40:12 +0200 Subject: Unreliable File Deletion In-Reply-To: <6A4E35DF-529B-4E11-BAD3-3F4A8CBBF476@major-k.de> References: <6A4E35DF-529B-4E11-BAD3-3F4A8CBBF476@major-k.de> Message-ID: > 28. mar. 2021 kl. 19:22 skrev Klaus major-k via use-livecode : > > Hi friends, > >> Am 28.03.2021 um 19:11 schrieb R.H. via use-livecode : >> ... >> ... put specialfolderpath("resources") &"/temp.txt" into tFilePath >> ... put tOut into URL("binfile:"&tFilePath) >> ... > > you may already know this, but this will not work in a standalone! > We will surely not have write permissions in that folder! > To the best of my knowledge, I think this is wrong. In MacOS the resources folder is part of the application bundle and resides within the content folder in that bundle. I have never encountered any problem with this folder even when using un-notarized and unsigned apps. I give away small apps to my students (both Mac and Windows) all the time and I use resources, desktop and documents as the main folders to write to and read from. All of these folders work OK. The user will be asked if they want to give the application permission to access these folders, but other than that I don?t know of any hiccups. I know that there are several restrictions when you deploy to various mobile platforms. These are explained in the Dictionary. Best regards Tore Nilsen From tore.nilsen at me.com Sun Mar 28 14:55:07 2021 From: tore.nilsen at me.com (Tore Nilsen) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2021 20:55:07 +0200 Subject: Unreliable File Deletion In-Reply-To: References: <6A4E35DF-529B-4E11-BAD3-3F4A8CBBF476@major-k.de> Message-ID: > 28. mar. 2021 kl. 20:40 skrev Tore Nilsen via use-livecode : > > > >> 28. mar. 2021 kl. 19:22 skrev Klaus major-k via use-livecode : >> >> Hi friends, >> >>> Am 28.03.2021 um 19:11 schrieb R.H. via use-livecode : >>> ... >>> ... put specialfolderpath("resources") &"/temp.txt" into tFilePath >>> ... put tOut into URL("binfile:"&tFilePath) >>> ... >> >> you may already know this, but this will not work in a standalone! >> We will surely not have write permissions in that folder! >> > > > To the best of my knowledge, I think this is wrong. In MacOS the resources folder is part of the application bundle and resides within the content folder in that bundle. I have never encountered any problem with this folder even when using un-notarized and unsigned apps. I give away small apps to my students (both Mac and Windows) all the time and I use resources, desktop and documents as the main folders to write to and read from. All of these folders work OK. The user will be asked if they want to give the application permission to access these folders, but other than that I don?t know of any hiccups. > > I know that there are several restrictions when you deploy to various mobile platforms. These are explained in the Dictionary. > I just made a test application where I am able to create a folder in the resources folder on preOpenStack. I then am able to read from and write to a document in this folder without any problem. This is on macOS Big Sur. The path to my folder in the resources folder in the app bundle is ?Contents/_MacOS/testfolder/? and the application can write to this folder without any questions about permissions. Best regards Tore From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sun Mar 28 15:08:03 2021 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2021 14:08:03 -0500 Subject: Help with androidStartAudioPlayingInBackground() In-Reply-To: <819a847b-f6e3-e424-2116-773b02f1ee13@speedbump.io> References: <819a847b-f6e3-e424-2116-773b02f1ee13@speedbump.io> Message-ID: <9db956f1-e06e-00b3-2971-2897ed21dd5d@hyperactivesw.com> I've seen similar issues when trying to read other file types from the resources folder in an Android standalone. Try copying the file to specialFolderPath("documents") and play it from there. It's likely a permissions problem that I wish didn't exist. On 3/28/21 1:24 PM, Derek Bump via use-livecode wrote: > Hello Everyone, > > I was wondering if anyone has insight into the usage of > "androidStartAudioPlayingInBackground()", or can confirm that it works? > > I setup a test stack that attempts to play a public domain MP3 using the following script but > nothing plays. I receive nothing from the function, and I'm getting the following in logcat: > LiveCode: JNI exception thrown when calling native method > > on mouseUp > ?? local tFile > ?? put specialFolderPath("engine") & "/" & "spring_song.mp3" into tFile > ?? if there is not a file tFile then > ????? answer "File not found:" && tFile > ?? end if > ?? put androidStartAudioPlayingInBackground(tFile) into card field "result" > ?? -- logcat: LiveCode: JNI exception thrown when calling native method > end mouseUp > > I've tested this build using Community 9.6.2 (rc3) and 9.0.5, on an Android 9.0 Virtual Device > and a Android 9.0 phone. Same result across the board, nothing plays. > > I did test and confirm the ability to play the audio file with "mobilePlaySoundOnChannel", but > I need background playback for my project to work. Also, I searched the LiveCode Quality > Control site for existing bugs (no results) and searched the forum a bit. > > Does anyone have any ideas? Here is my test stack if you're willing to give it a shot on your > end: https://www.speedbump.io/shared/backgroundPlayTest.minimal.zip > > Thank you in advance, > > Derek Bump > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sun Mar 28 15:20:26 2021 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2021 14:20:26 -0500 Subject: Unreliable File Deletion In-Reply-To: References: <6A4E35DF-529B-4E11-BAD3-3F4A8CBBF476@major-k.de> Message-ID: On 3/28/21 1:40 PM, Tore Nilsen via use-livecode wrote: > In MacOS the resources folder is part of the application bundle and resides within the content folder in that bundle. I have never encountered any problem with this folder even when using un-notarized and unsigned apps. I give away small apps to my students (both Mac and Windows) all the time and I use resources, desktop and documents as the main folders to write to and read from. All of these folders work OK. Desktop and documents folders are okay, and it may be possible to read from the resources folder, but do you actually write to it? I don't know any OS that allows altering an executable, which includes Mac bundles. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sun Mar 28 15:22:42 2021 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2021 14:22:42 -0500 Subject: Unreliable File Deletion In-Reply-To: <26E78756-3110-4FB7-8A84-6D18AB82964E@earthlearningsolutions.org> References: <6A4E35DF-529B-4E11-BAD3-3F4A8CBBF476@major-k.de> <26E78756-3110-4FB7-8A84-6D18AB82964E@earthlearningsolutions.org> Message-ID: <84bec971-e9b5-e5a3-ef7c-d9838df5b8b7@hyperactivesw.com> On 3/28/21 12:28 PM, ELS Prothero via use-livecode wrote: > Folks, > This alarms me. > In my app, I write a file to specialFolderpath(?desktop?). > What are the conditions to make this work on Apple or Windows standalones? Desktop works fine, every user has permissions to alter files there. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sun Mar 28 15:42:54 2021 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2021 12:42:54 -0700 Subject: Unreliable File Deletion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: R.H. wrote: > The similar or same problem as you have: I want to delete the text > file. The command I issue is "detele file ". The error it > returns: "Can't delete file". LC's result will tell you only the general fact that a file I/O operation failed, but not why. The syserror() function will tell you why, delivering the specific integer code for the error the OS reported back to LC. Establishing a habit of always including a call to sysError when reporting a non-empty result will save you countless hours of diagnostic time, e.g.: delete file tFile if the result is not empty then answer the result &" ("& sysError() &")" end if -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sun Mar 28 16:55:58 2021 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2021 15:55:58 -0500 Subject: Unreliable File Deletion In-Reply-To: References: <6A4E35DF-529B-4E11-BAD3-3F4A8CBBF476@major-k.de> Message-ID: On 3/28/21 1:55 PM, Tore Nilsen via use-livecode wrote: > I just made a test application where I am able to create a folder in the resources folder on preOpenStack. I then am able to read from and write to a document in this folder without any problem. This is on macOS Big Sur. The path to my folder in the resources folder in the app bundle is ?Contents/_MacOS/testfolder/? and the application can write to this folder without any questions about permissions. Interesting. Does it also work on a different machine where you aren't the owner? If so, everything we've heard is wrong. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From tore.nilsen at me.com Sun Mar 28 16:59:00 2021 From: tore.nilsen at me.com (Tore Nilsen) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2021 22:59:00 +0200 Subject: Unreliable File Deletion In-Reply-To: References: <6A4E35DF-529B-4E11-BAD3-3F4A8CBBF476@major-k.de> Message-ID: <391AB13E-FC16-4578-8650-2453802FA5ED@me.com> > 28. mar. 2021 kl. 21:20 skrev J. Landman Gay via use-livecode : > > > Desktop and documents folders are okay, and it may be possible to read from the resources folder, but do you actually write to it? I don't know any OS that allows altering an executable, which includes Mac bundles. I set up an application with the following code in the stack script: on preOpenStack put specialFolderPath("resources")& "/testfolder/" into tURL create folder tURL end preOpenStack In the script of a button I put the following: on mouseUp ask "Write something to go into the resource folder:" put it into tText put "file:" & specialFolderPath("resources") & "/testfolder/test.txt" into tURL put url tURL into tData put tText & return after tData put textEncode(tData,"UTF-8") into url tURLanswer url tURL end mouseUp I then build a standalone for Mac and started the application. After running the script from the button three times I did find the file test.txt in the folder named ?testfolder? inside the _MacOS folder in the contents folder of the app bundle. The file contained the exact three lines I had written. Whether or not this will work on windows I don?t know as I do not have any computer running Windows to try it on. Best regards Tore From tore.nilsen at me.com Sun Mar 28 17:02:15 2021 From: tore.nilsen at me.com (Tore Nilsen) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2021 23:02:15 +0200 Subject: Unreliable File Deletion In-Reply-To: References: <6A4E35DF-529B-4E11-BAD3-3F4A8CBBF476@major-k.de> Message-ID: <59040392-775A-44EB-9FB5-D76A53243DB2@me.com> > 28. mar. 2021 kl. 22:55 skrev J. Landman Gay via use-livecode : > > Interesting. Does it also work on a different machine where you aren't the owner? If so, everything we've heard is wrong. I haven?t tried on a machine where I am not the owner. This may be why it worked. When I come to think of it I am not certain I have been writing to the resource folder in any of the apps I have given my students, but I am quite certain I have read from such files. Tore From andrew at midwestcoastmedia.com Sun Mar 28 17:50:42 2021 From: andrew at midwestcoastmedia.com (Andrew at MidWest Coast Media) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2021 17:50:42 -0400 Subject: [bug] strange memory leak in LC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Big Sur 11.0.1, LC 9.6rc3 LiveCode seems to become unresponsive when my iMac goes to sleep and then wakes up and logs in. Don?t have any recipe for it, but when I when I left it overnight it had completely taken over my machine this morning. https://www.dropbox.com/s/cl2htkbe6a3e7y8/memory_leak.png?dl=0 I have 40GB of physical RAM, but LC was trying to use almost 300GB (virtual?) ?Andrew Bell > > From: Phil Davis > To: How to use LiveCode > Subject: Re: [bug] strange memory leak in LC > Message-ID: <968340be-831e-f86f-7f1e-9cda1ed22422 at pdslabs.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > I created a little "leak test" stack that runs the "leaks" shell command > against the processID of the LC engine that runs the stack. It checks > for new leaks every 60 seconds and lists the number and size of each new > leak found. I'm running it in LC 9.6.1 on 3 Macs right now - Catalina, > High Sierra and Big Sur. > > After about 30 minutes: > - LC on Big Sur (M1) has 10 leaks for a total of 688 bytes. > - LC on Catalina (Intel) has no leaks. > - LC on High Sierra (Intel) has no leaks. > > Just FYI - > Phil Davis > > > On 3/26/21 7:33 PM, John Balgenorth via use-livecode wrote: >> I am not personally using Bug Sur but if you make a standalone does >> it leak memory too or is this only with the development system? >> >> JB >> >>> On Mar 26, 2021, at 7:29 PM, scott--- via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> ?I?m running Big Sur and just got a warning from the OS that I was out of application memory. Livecode was using 133.52 GB of memory. It had been open for a couple days but it wasn?t doing anything. >>> -- >>> Scott Morrow >>> >>> Elementary Software >>> (Now with 20% less chalk dust!) >>> web https://elementarysoftware.com/ >>> email scott at elementarysoftware.com >>> booth 1-360-734-4701 >>> ------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>>> On Mar 26, 2021, at 6:53 AM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode wrote: >>>> >>>> Sean, >>>> >>>> The stack was not running anything. It was simply opened. I don?t believe it would leak like that. Anyway, I?m monitoring to see if it happens again. >>>> >>>> A >>>> >>>>>> On 26 Mar 2021, at 13:01, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode wrote: >>>>> Wow, Andre, that's impressive. That amounts to about 34MB per minute over >>>>> 48hrs. I've had a pretty massive stack (226MB file at the moment) on my Mac >>>>> sitting here over the last week. Looking in the activity monitor, LC has >>>>> 987MB associated with it. and watching it over a period of time it remains >>>>> stable and even went down a tiny bit. >>>>> >>>>> I wonder if this is more an issue with Rosetta2 in this instance. Maybe >>>>> something in LC leaks because of the Rosetta transformation of the binary. >>>>> Perhaps, as a test, open the same stack on a non-AppleSilicon Mac and watch >>>>> them both for how much memory they expend over a period of time. >>>>> >>>>> All the best with that. >>>>> >>>>> Sean >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 at 10:03, Andre Garzia via use-livecode < >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I have no idea what happened. I?m running LC 9.6.2-rc-3 on macOS Big Sur >>>>>> on M1 ISA (so it is running under Rosetta 2). I kept the IDE opened for a >>>>>> couple days, I was working on a gaziliion stacks at the same time and was >>>>>> not yet ready to close them. >>>>>> >>>>>> The stacks were not doing anything, they were not running ?send in time? >>>>>> commands or doing any kind of processing, they were just opened. Then macOS >>>>>> showed me a dialog I have never ever seen on macOS 10.x, a memory >>>>>> exhaustion dialog. Looking closer at it, LiveCode was using 100 GB of >>>>>> memory, as in Gigabyte, as can be seen on this screenshot: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://andregarzia.com/img/shots/lc-memory-leak.png < >>>>>> http://andregarzia.com/img/shots/lc-memory-leak.png> >>>>>> >>>>>> I remember things like the ?default button? causing leaks due to the >>>>>> animation and so on, but all I had was a bunch of custom stacks open and >>>>>> the script editor focused. Thats it. It was open since yesterday. >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > -- > Phil Davis > 503-307-4363 > From irog at mac.com Sun Mar 28 17:58:30 2021 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2021 14:58:30 -0700 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: <17CB0F38-170D-4DAC-B62B-8E5B94AE62C3@elementarysoftware.com> References: <63b01206-58ad-100e-4017-2cebf751d040@fourthworld.com> <4D36D1DD-F6CC-4DA6-B06D-AEF65697C75A@mac.com> <9D7DEA99-C7EE-4F0D-82CA-30B763FF11F6@mac.com> <441D85DA-47E1-4B26-BB94-A032D348CB3F@mac.com> <2BFE6B45-E0DA-40EB-B0A6-634B253FA3E9@porta.ca> <17CB0F38-170D-4DAC-B62B-8E5B94AE62C3@elementarysoftware.com> Message-ID: Nope! Right clicking on a standalone I?m trying to share with my wife on her iMac w OS 11.2 results in this menu: Open Attachment - Quick Look Attachment - Save Attachment?. - Save to Downloads Folder - Share - Copy - Speech Then, clicking on the ?Open Attachment? menu item results in the same response I reported earlier: a simple screen with this message: You do not have permission to open the application ?StackOmatic?. ?Contact your computer or network administrator for assistance? with a simple ?OK? button. Dead end as before! Further, at Kelly's suggestion to try and adjust settings in the Security and Privacy System Preferences to downgrade standards to allow a one time opening, I found nothing of the sort. So at this point, I think Kelly?s idea of someone with Apple credentials building a certified standalone that runs stacks is the only short term solution. If it helps, I and probably others, would be willing to pay a reasonable fee for such gem. Otherwise, I and anyone else wanting to share stacks, will have to jump through the increasingly ridiculous hoops that Apple (and Windows?) place before us. OTH?. Ultimately, I really think that a LiveCodeLight app that runs stacks without the IDE would be the best way to go to share stacks with friends, family and colleagues. Roger > On Mar 28, 2021, at 12:24 AM, scott--- via use-livecode wrote: > > Kelly is correct. While holding down the control key, click and hold (or right click) to get an additional menu allowing you to choose to open the app. > ? > Scott From brian at milby7.com Sun Mar 28 19:03:29 2021 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2021 19:03:29 -0400 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9ABC0A9B-4BA1-4996-A273-968F1D02E45A@milby7.com> I think the ?attachment? is part of the issue. Save to downloads first? Sent from my iPhone > On Mar 28, 2021, at 6:00 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: > > ?Nope! Right clicking on a standalone I?m trying to share with my wife on her iMac w OS 11.2 results in this menu: Open Attachment - Quick Look Attachment - Save Attachment?. - Save to Downloads Folder - Share - Copy - Speech > > Then, clicking on the ?Open Attachment? menu item results in the same response I reported earlier: a simple screen with this message: You do not have permission to open the application ?StackOmatic?. ?Contact your computer or network administrator for assistance? with a simple ?OK? button. Dead end as before! > > Further, at Kelly's suggestion to try and adjust settings in the Security and Privacy System Preferences to downgrade standards to allow a one time opening, I found nothing of the sort. > > So at this point, I think Kelly?s idea of someone with Apple credentials building a certified standalone that runs stacks is the only short term solution. If it helps, I and probably others, would be willing to pay a reasonable fee for such gem. Otherwise, I and anyone else wanting to share stacks, will have to jump through the increasingly ridiculous hoops that Apple (and Windows?) place before us. OTH?. > > Ultimately, I really think that a LiveCodeLight app that runs stacks without the IDE would be the best way to go to share stacks with friends, family and colleagues. > > Roger > > > >> On Mar 28, 2021, at 12:24 AM, scott--- via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Kelly is correct. While holding down the control key, click and hold (or right click) to get an additional menu allowing you to choose to open the app. >> ? >> Scott > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dev at porta.ca Sun Mar 28 19:26:13 2021 From: dev at porta.ca (Dev) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2021 17:26:13 -0600 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: <9ABC0A9B-4BA1-4996-A273-968F1D02E45A@milby7.com> References: <9ABC0A9B-4BA1-4996-A273-968F1D02E45A@milby7.com> Message-ID: <2058BB0F-C5E7-46C7-8871-F61C07BFF634@porta.ca> Agreed. Save to the desktop and then try the right click Open command. Kelly Sent from my iPhone > On Mar 28, 2021, at 5:04 PM, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote: > > ?I think the ?attachment? is part of the issue. Save to downloads first? > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Mar 28, 2021, at 6:00 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: >> >> ?Nope! Right clicking on a standalone I?m trying to share with my wife on her iMac w OS 11.2 results in this menu: Open Attachment - Quick Look Attachment - Save Attachment?. - Save to Downloads Folder - Share - Copy - Speech >> >> Then, clicking on the ?Open Attachment? menu item results in the same response I reported earlier: a simple screen with this message: You do not have permission to open the application ?StackOmatic?. ?Contact your computer or network administrator for assistance? with a simple ?OK? button. Dead end as before! >> >> Further, at Kelly's suggestion to try and adjust settings in the Security and Privacy System Preferences to downgrade standards to allow a one time opening, I found nothing of the sort. >> >> So at this point, I think Kelly?s idea of someone with Apple credentials building a certified standalone that runs stacks is the only short term solution. If it helps, I and probably others, would be willing to pay a reasonable fee for such gem. Otherwise, I and anyone else wanting to share stacks, will have to jump through the increasingly ridiculous hoops that Apple (and Windows?) place before us. OTH?. >> >> Ultimately, I really think that a LiveCodeLight app that runs stacks without the IDE would be the best way to go to share stacks with friends, family and colleagues. >> >> Roger >> >> >> >>>> On Mar 28, 2021, at 12:24 AM, scott--- via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> Kelly is correct. While holding down the control key, click and hold (or right click) to get an additional menu allowing you to choose to open the app. >>> ? >>> Scott >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From irog at mac.com Sun Mar 28 19:46:38 2021 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2021 16:46:38 -0700 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: <2058BB0F-C5E7-46C7-8871-F61C07BFF634@porta.ca> References: <9ABC0A9B-4BA1-4996-A273-968F1D02E45A@milby7.com> <2058BB0F-C5E7-46C7-8871-F61C07BFF634@porta.ca> Message-ID: <67822590-F66F-464F-814D-2A07A54B506E@mac.com> I feel bad that you guys are sticking with me to no avail. Saving it first to Downloads or Desktop does not work. Sorry to be such a bother, Roger > On Mar 28, 2021, at 4:26 PM, Dev via use-livecode wrote: > > Agreed. Save to the desktop and then try the right click Open command. > > Kelly > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Mar 28, 2021, at 5:04 PM, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote: >> >> ?I think the ?attachment? is part of the issue. Save to downloads first? >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Mar 28, 2021, at 6:00 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> ?Nope! Right clicking on a standalone I?m trying to share with my wife on her iMac w OS 11.2 results in this menu: Open Attachment - Quick Look Attachment - Save Attachment?. - Save to Downloads Folder - Share - Copy - Speech >>> >>> Then, clicking on the ?Open Attachment? menu item results in the same response I reported earlier: a simple screen with this message: You do not have permission to open the application ?StackOmatic?. ?Contact your computer or network administrator for assistance? with a simple ?OK? button. Dead end as before! >>> >>> Further, at Kelly's suggestion to try and adjust settings in the Security and Privacy System Preferences to downgrade standards to allow a one time opening, I found nothing of the sort. >>> >>> So at this point, I think Kelly?s idea of someone with Apple credentials building a certified standalone that runs stacks is the only short term solution. If it helps, I and probably others, would be willing to pay a reasonable fee for such gem. Otherwise, I and anyone else wanting to share stacks, will have to jump through the increasingly ridiculous hoops that Apple (and Windows?) place before us. OTH?. >>> >>> Ultimately, I really think that a LiveCodeLight app that runs stacks without the IDE would be the best way to go to share stacks with friends, family and colleagues. >>> >>> Roger >>> >>> >>> >>>>> On Mar 28, 2021, at 12:24 AM, scott--- via use-livecode wrote: >>>> >>>> Kelly is correct. While holding down the control key, click and hold (or right click) to get an additional menu allowing you to choose to open the app. >>>> ? >>>> Scott >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sun Mar 28 20:14:16 2021 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2021 17:14:16 -0700 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Alex Tweedly wrote: > On 27/03/2021 02:43, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: >> This makes the Community Edition a natural fit for a generic player, >> since the proliferation the license explicitly encourages would be >> very much with the grain of its goals. >> >> But then we have to ask: how many of those who might enjoy a generic >> player embrace the GPL with the stacks they'd like to distribute it >> with? > > hmmm - I don't get that bit. > > The generic player would be built with Community Edition - and hence > must be GPL-compliant. > > However, the stacks it "plays" are merely documents. GPL is (afaiu) > clear that documents viewed (or indeed created) by GPL apps are not > covered by the GPL - i.e. it does not proliferate into the stacks. > The stacks are not in any way derivative of the player. > > So I could build a stack with my Indy license, and distribute that > under any restrictive licensing terms I choose, but use the CE/GPL > compliant player app to run them. > > Of course, the source of the stacks would be visible, but there > wouldn't seem to be any requirement on which licensing terms I apply > to that stack. > > Or, I may be misunderstanding GPL again - I have done on many > occasions since I first hired a developer to work on gcc back in the > mid-80s :-) The GPL is intentionally vague on what constitutes "derivative work" with regard to license inheritance, acknowledging the vast and ever-growing number of ways code can comingle at runtime. LC's interpretation is similar to Wordpress, Drupal, Joomla, and others which regard code running inside their process. Those CMS' regard all templates, plugins, widgets, themes, etc. as "derivative works" inheriting all rights and responsibilities of the CMS framework's GPL. When in doubt about how any license applies to anything, it's always best to check with the owner of the property. One of Mark Waddingham's more complete set of comments on GPL and LC Community is here: http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2016-March/224276.html The most relevant part may be this: If you don't wish to pay for a commercial license of some sort, then your option is to enter the GPL ecosystem of LiveCode Community and abide by its rules. If you do decide to pay for a commercial license then you can walk in both. I, personally, think that is entirely fair and reasonable. So in a sense we're both right, at least as far as meeting the company's expectations: As long as you maintain a current license to a proprietary edition, you can "walk in both"; if your license expires, distribution is GPL. This still leaves two questions: 1. Can a proprietary licensee choose ANY license for stacks distributed with the GPL engine, or must it be at least GPL-compatible (such as MIT)? 2. What if I write something in a licensed proprietary edition this morning, distribute it for use with a Community engine this afternoon, and then let my proprietary LC license lapse tomorrow? Does the license of what I've already sent out into the field somehow transform into GPL? How could any user know? The simplest way to avoid any questions about attempting to mix license types is to simply not mix them. GPL is pretty clear, and only becomes complex with efforts to circumvent its terms through mixing with other licenses. Here I follow one simple rule: I embrace the GPL where sharing under its terms is my goal; I avoid it where my goals are otherwise, including any potentially-gray area not already clarifed by the copyright owner. > I won't even start on that until I've finished fulminating over your > misspelling of whisky - but a response (or two) will come. My family is from Ireland and I live in the States. I raise my whiskey to toast your whisky, in the kinship of two related but regionally-distinct liquors, each spelled correctly. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From dev at porta.ca Sun Mar 28 20:20:21 2021 From: dev at porta.ca (Dev) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2021 18:20:21 -0600 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: <67822590-F66F-464F-814D-2A07A54B506E@mac.com> References: <9ABC0A9B-4BA1-4996-A273-968F1D02E45A@milby7.com> <2058BB0F-C5E7-46C7-8871-F61C07BFF634@porta.ca> <67822590-F66F-464F-814D-2A07A54B506E@mac.com> Message-ID: <834734E8-FA50-427D-8DC5-E2FDAD1F4F1B@porta.ca> So how are you getting it on to her machine? Drag and drop across the net in your house? Email? AirDrop? Lets start from the beginning and sort this out, because I think you ought to be able to do it. Kelly > On 28 Mar, 2021, at 5:46 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: > > I feel bad that you guys are sticking with me to no avail. Saving it first to Downloads or Desktop does not work. > > Sorry to be such a bother, > > Roger > >> On Mar 28, 2021, at 4:26 PM, Dev via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Agreed. Save to the desktop and then try the right click Open command. >> >> Kelly >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Mar 28, 2021, at 5:04 PM, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> ?I think the ?attachment? is part of the issue. Save to downloads first? >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Mar 28, 2021, at 6:00 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: >>>> >>>> ?Nope! Right clicking on a standalone I?m trying to share with my wife on her iMac w OS 11.2 results in this menu: Open Attachment - Quick Look Attachment - Save Attachment?. - Save to Downloads Folder - Share - Copy - Speech >>>> >>>> Then, clicking on the ?Open Attachment? menu item results in the same response I reported earlier: a simple screen with this message: You do not have permission to open the application ?StackOmatic?. ?Contact your computer or network administrator for assistance? with a simple ?OK? button. Dead end as before! >>>> >>>> Further, at Kelly's suggestion to try and adjust settings in the Security and Privacy System Preferences to downgrade standards to allow a one time opening, I found nothing of the sort. >>>> >>>> So at this point, I think Kelly?s idea of someone with Apple credentials building a certified standalone that runs stacks is the only short term solution. If it helps, I and probably others, would be willing to pay a reasonable fee for such gem. Otherwise, I and anyone else wanting to share stacks, will have to jump through the increasingly ridiculous hoops that Apple (and Windows?) place before us. OTH?. >>>> >>>> Ultimately, I really think that a LiveCodeLight app that runs stacks without the IDE would be the best way to go to share stacks with friends, family and colleagues. >>>> >>>> Roger >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> On Mar 28, 2021, at 12:24 AM, scott--- via use-livecode wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Kelly is correct. While holding down the control key, click and hold (or right click) to get an additional menu allowing you to choose to open the app. >>>>> ? >>>>> Scott >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jiml at netrin.com Sun Mar 28 20:54:26 2021 From: jiml at netrin.com (Jim Lambert) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2021 17:54:26 -0700 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > Richard G. wrote: > > I raise my whiskey > to toast your whisky. Sl?inte! JIm Lambert From james at thehales.id.au Sun Mar 28 21:20:55 2021 From: james at thehales.id.au (james at thehales.id.au) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 12:20:55 +1100 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones Message-ID: Hi Roger, You wrote: > Nope! Right clicking on a standalone I?m trying to share with my wife on her iMac w OS 11.2 results in this menu: Open Attachment - Quick Look Attachment - Save Attachment?. - Save to Downloads Folder - Share - Copy - Speech This list of menu options looks like those that appear if you are right-clicking on an attachment in Mail. The right-click menu being referred to here is only available when you are in the Finder. So the app you sent to your wife?s machine (apparently by Mail) needs to be downloaded first. Then, in the Finder, locate the downloaded file and right-click on it. The menu that appears will have as the first two options ?Open? and ?Show Package Contents?. If the second option offered is not ?Show Package Options? but ?Open With? then you have not transferred an app but a document (perhaps the LC stack?) Try this with other apps and documents on your wife?s mac to confirm the two types of option menus that come up. Choosing ?Open? for an application Finder context menu will, for unnotorized apps, will then bring up the dlog asking if you really do want to open this app. This only needs to be done the first time the app is opened. James From irog at mac.com Sun Mar 28 22:09:20 2021 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2021 19:09:20 -0700 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: James, Kelly and Brian, Thanks for sticking with me on this. Perhaps, to smooth out this process, I should look for an uncertified app to download to my own machine, instead of working off of her machine. Have you any suggestions for that? Answers to some of your question: I emailed a standalone app to my wife called StackOmatic that opens stacks (works on my machine) I tried double and right clicking from the email then... I saved it to her Desktop and also to her Downloads where I tired both double clicking and right clicking again In every case, I end up with the dreaded "You do not have permission to open the application ?StackOmatic?. ?Contact your computer or network administrator for assistance? with a simple ?OK? button. HTH, Roger > On Mar 28, 2021, at 6:20 PM, james--- via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi Roger, > > You wrote: > >> Nope! Right clicking on a standalone I?m trying to share with my wife on her iMac w OS 11.2 results in this menu: Open Attachment - Quick Look Attachment - Save Attachment?. - Save to Downloads Folder - Share - Copy - Speech > > This list of menu options looks like those that appear if you are right-clicking on an attachment in Mail. > > The right-click menu being referred to here is only available when you are in the Finder. > So the app you sent to your wife?s machine (apparently by Mail) needs to be downloaded first. Then, in the Finder, locate the downloaded file and right-click on it. > > The menu that appears will have as the first two options ?Open? and ?Show Package Contents?. > If the second option offered is not ?Show Package Options? but ?Open With? then you have not transferred an app but a document (perhaps the LC stack?) > > Try this with other apps and documents on your wife?s mac to confirm the two types of option menus that come up. > > Choosing ?Open? for an application Finder context menu will, for unnotorized apps, will then bring up the dlog asking if you really do want to open this app. This only needs to be done the first time the app is opened. > > James > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au Sun Mar 28 22:13:54 2021 From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 13:13:54 +1100 Subject: Resources folder on mac, and the good old days In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > you may already know this, but this will not work in a standalone! > We will surely not have write permissions in that folder! > > As a workaround I would probably use -> specialfolderpath("temporary") > Or even write the text to -> the tempname > I find this discussions strange - I had the impression most users here were Mac developers and knew this stuff. There is no problem writing to the resources folder. That?s the logical place to put the user-changeable stack files for a standalone, making the auxiliary files invisible to external fiddling by the user, which a Good Thing (although that does make the app look different on Windows or Linux). As for the Good Old Days of free distribution to other Mac (desktop) users, they haven?t gone. Apple is making it harder for the uninitiated to find out how to open ?unsafe? files, but they don't keep it a secret. And while recent rumours abound about unnotarized apps not working at all on some future MacOS, it does seem unlikely that will actually happen, and if they do that?s time for us all to reboot to Linux. Neville From scott at elementarysoftware.com Sun Mar 28 23:39:24 2021 From: scott at elementarysoftware.com (scott at elementarysoftware.com) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2021 20:39:24 -0700 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: References: <63b01206-58ad-100e-4017-2cebf751d040@fourthworld.com> <4D36D1DD-F6CC-4DA6-B06D-AEF65697C75A@mac.com> <9D7DEA99-C7EE-4F0D-82CA-30B763FF11F6@mac.com> <441D85DA-47E1-4B26-BB94-A032D348CB3F@mac.com> <2BFE6B45-E0DA-40EB-B0A6-634B253FA3E9@porta.ca> <17CB0F38-170D-4DAC-B62B-8E5B94AE62C3@elementarysoftware.com> Message-ID: <1DC0A666-BE4F-4C2F-BB9D-34131ED58218@elementarysoftware.com> I may have described it incorrectly. After re-testing here on OS 11.2.3 I found that it required two tries. Trying to open it the first time meets with failure. But Right clicking and choosing ?Open? the second time gives a second dialog that will allow it to open. ? Scott > On Mar 28, 2021, at 2:58 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: > > Nope! Right clicking on a standalone I?m trying to share with my wife on her iMac w OS 11.2 results in this menu: Open Attachment - Quick Look Attachment - Save Attachment?. - Save to Downloads Folder - Share - Copy - Speech > > Then, clicking on the ?Open Attachment? menu item results in the same response I reported earlier: a simple screen with this message: You do not have permission to open the application ?StackOmatic?. ?Contact your computer or network administrator for assistance? with a simple ?OK? button. Dead end as before! > > Further, at Kelly's suggestion to try and adjust settings in the Security and Privacy System Preferences to downgrade standards to allow a one time opening, I found nothing of the sort. > > So at this point, I think Kelly?s idea of someone with Apple credentials building a certified standalone that runs stacks is the only short term solution. If it helps, I and probably others, would be willing to pay a reasonable fee for such gem. Otherwise, I and anyone else wanting to share stacks, will have to jump through the increasingly ridiculous hoops that Apple (and Windows?) place before us. OTH?. > > Ultimately, I really think that a LiveCodeLight app that runs stacks without the IDE would be the best way to go to share stacks with friends, family and colleagues. > > Roger > > > >> On Mar 28, 2021, at 12:24 AM, scott--- via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Kelly is correct. While holding down the control key, click and hold (or right click) to get an additional menu allowing you to choose to open the app. >> ? >> Scott > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From sundown.pacifier at icloud.com Sun Mar 28 23:54:05 2021 From: sundown.pacifier at icloud.com (John Balgenorth) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2021 20:54:05 -0700 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: <1DC0A666-BE4F-4C2F-BB9D-34131ED58218@elementarysoftware.com> References: <1DC0A666-BE4F-4C2F-BB9D-34131ED58218@elementarysoftware.com> Message-ID: <9BB476E8-19E5-46AF-BAE9-D86366E5100A@icloud.com> I may have got lost on this subject but if his goal was to make it easy for people to open his app by doing something like using a scaled down version of the development system then this one step of doing it twice is a valid reason for using what he wanted because people do not want to be bothered with things like that. JB > On Mar 28, 2021, at 8:41 PM, scott--- via use-livecode wrote: > > ? > I may have described it incorrectly. After re-testing here on OS 11.2.3 I found that it required two tries. Trying to open it the first time meets with failure. But Right clicking and choosing ?Open? the second time gives a second dialog that will allow it to open. > > ? > Scott > >> On Mar 28, 2021, at 2:58 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Nope! Right clicking on a standalone I?m trying to share with my wife on her iMac w OS 11.2 results in this menu: Open Attachment - Quick Look Attachment - Save Attachment?. - Save to Downloads Folder - Share - Copy - Speech >> >> Then, clicking on the ?Open Attachment? menu item results in the same response I reported earlier: a simple screen with this message: You do not have permission to open the application ?StackOmatic?. ?Contact your computer or network administrator for assistance? with a simple ?OK? button. Dead end as before! >> >> Further, at Kelly's suggestion to try and adjust settings in the Security and Privacy System Preferences to downgrade standards to allow a one time opening, I found nothing of the sort. >> >> So at this point, I think Kelly?s idea of someone with Apple credentials building a certified standalone that runs stacks is the only short term solution. If it helps, I and probably others, would be willing to pay a reasonable fee for such gem. Otherwise, I and anyone else wanting to share stacks, will have to jump through the increasingly ridiculous hoops that Apple (and Windows?) place before us. OTH?. >> >> Ultimately, I really think that a LiveCodeLight app that runs stacks without the IDE would be the best way to go to share stacks with friends, family and colleagues. >> >> Roger >> >> >> >>>> On Mar 28, 2021, at 12:24 AM, scott--- via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> Kelly is correct. While holding down the control key, click and hold (or right click) to get an additional menu allowing you to choose to open the app. >>> ? >>> Scott >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dev at porta.ca Mon Mar 29 00:02:28 2021 From: dev at porta.ca (Dev) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2021 22:02:28 -0600 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: <9BB476E8-19E5-46AF-BAE9-D86366E5100A@icloud.com> References: <1DC0A666-BE4F-4C2F-BB9D-34131ED58218@elementarysoftware.com> <9BB476E8-19E5-46AF-BAE9-D86366E5100A@icloud.com> Message-ID: If it works, the upside is that anyone can do it themselves and coach their family into doing the two step process once on the first time install. If it doesn?t work, we need to get a real developer to make a real app that jumps through Apple?s hoops. And then the developer has to keep it updated every time Apple makes a change. I agree this whole thing is a bother, but as other posts have pointed out, ?This is not the good old days and security is not going away? so this whole discussion is trying to find the narrowest point to cross. If the amateurs can do it themselves with a two step magic incantation, then this puts the ball back in their court and allows them into the game with out going through the Apple doorway. Kelly > On 28 Mar, 2021, at 9:54 PM, John Balgenorth via use-livecode wrote: > > I may have got lost on this subject but if his goal was to make it > easy for people to open his app by doing something like using a > scaled down version of the development system then this one > step of doing it twice is a valid reason for using what he wanted > because people do not want to be bothered with things like that. > > JB > >> On Mar 28, 2021, at 8:41 PM, scott--- via use-livecode wrote: >> >> ? >> I may have described it incorrectly. After re-testing here on OS 11.2.3 I found that it required two tries. Trying to open it the first time meets with failure. But Right clicking and choosing ?Open? the second time gives a second dialog that will allow it to open. >> >> ? >> Scott >> >>> On Mar 28, 2021, at 2:58 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> Nope! Right clicking on a standalone I?m trying to share with my wife on her iMac w OS 11.2 results in this menu: Open Attachment - Quick Look Attachment - Save Attachment?. - Save to Downloads Folder - Share - Copy - Speech >>> >>> Then, clicking on the ?Open Attachment? menu item results in the same response I reported earlier: a simple screen with this message: You do not have permission to open the application ?StackOmatic?. ?Contact your computer or network administrator for assistance? with a simple ?OK? button. Dead end as before! >>> >>> Further, at Kelly's suggestion to try and adjust settings in the Security and Privacy System Preferences to downgrade standards to allow a one time opening, I found nothing of the sort. >>> >>> So at this point, I think Kelly?s idea of someone with Apple credentials building a certified standalone that runs stacks is the only short term solution. If it helps, I and probably others, would be willing to pay a reasonable fee for such gem. Otherwise, I and anyone else wanting to share stacks, will have to jump through the increasingly ridiculous hoops that Apple (and Windows?) place before us. OTH?. >>> >>> Ultimately, I really think that a LiveCodeLight app that runs stacks without the IDE would be the best way to go to share stacks with friends, family and colleagues. >>> >>> Roger >>> >>> >>> >>>>> On Mar 28, 2021, at 12:24 AM, scott--- via use-livecode wrote: >>>> >>>> Kelly is correct. While holding down the control key, click and hold (or right click) to get an additional menu allowing you to choose to open the app. >>>> ? >>>> Scott >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From sundown.pacifier at icloud.com Mon Mar 29 00:14:11 2021 From: sundown.pacifier at icloud.com (John Balgenorth) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2021 21:14:11 -0700 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I was thinking one of the reasons people were saying not to provide a scaled down version of the development system to do it was because they were afraid it would interfere with the license. But since you can do it according to some of you is proof you are allowed to automate the process and that should not interfere with the user license. JB > On Mar 28, 2021, at 9:04 PM, Dev via use-livecode wrote: > > ?If it works, the upside is that anyone can do it themselves and coach their family into doing the two step process once on the first time install. > > If it doesn?t work, we need to get a real developer to make a real app that jumps through Apple?s hoops. And then the developer has to keep it updated every time Apple makes a change. > > I agree this whole thing is a bother, but as other posts have pointed out, ?This is not the good old days and security is not going away? so this whole discussion is trying to find the narrowest point to cross. If the amateurs can do it themselves with a two step magic incantation, then this puts the ball back in their court and allows them into the game with out going through the Apple doorway. > > Kelly > >> On 28 Mar, 2021, at 9:54 PM, John Balgenorth via use-livecode wrote: >> >> I may have got lost on this subject but if his goal was to make it >> easy for people to open his app by doing something like using a >> scaled down version of the development system then this one >> step of doing it twice is a valid reason for using what he wanted >> because people do not want to be bothered with things like that. >> >> JB >> >>>> On Mar 28, 2021, at 8:41 PM, scott--- via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> ? >>> I may have described it incorrectly. After re-testing here on OS 11.2.3 I found that it required two tries. Trying to open it the first time meets with failure. But Right clicking and choosing ?Open? the second time gives a second dialog that will allow it to open. >>> >>> ? >>> Scott >>> >>>> On Mar 28, 2021, at 2:58 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: >>>> >>>> Nope! Right clicking on a standalone I?m trying to share with my wife on her iMac w OS 11.2 results in this menu: Open Attachment - Quick Look Attachment - Save Attachment?. - Save to Downloads Folder - Share - Copy - Speech >>>> >>>> Then, clicking on the ?Open Attachment? menu item results in the same response I reported earlier: a simple screen with this message: You do not have permission to open the application ?StackOmatic?. ?Contact your computer or network administrator for assistance? with a simple ?OK? button. Dead end as before! >>>> >>>> Further, at Kelly's suggestion to try and adjust settings in the Security and Privacy System Preferences to downgrade standards to allow a one time opening, I found nothing of the sort. >>>> >>>> So at this point, I think Kelly?s idea of someone with Apple credentials building a certified standalone that runs stacks is the only short term solution. If it helps, I and probably others, would be willing to pay a reasonable fee for such gem. Otherwise, I and anyone else wanting to share stacks, will have to jump through the increasingly ridiculous hoops that Apple (and Windows?) place before us. OTH?. >>>> >>>> Ultimately, I really think that a LiveCodeLight app that runs stacks without the IDE would be the best way to go to share stacks with friends, family and colleagues. >>>> >>>> Roger >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> On Mar 28, 2021, at 12:24 AM, scott--- via use-livecode wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Kelly is correct. While holding down the control key, click and hold (or right click) to get an additional menu allowing you to choose to open the app. >>>>> ? >>>>> Scott >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From irog at mac.com Mon Mar 29 01:02:33 2021 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2021 22:02:33 -0700 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: John et al, To recap: My ultimate goal is to get support for RunRev to provide a LiveCodeLight download that opens stacks but hides or strips the IDE. I can?t believe this would be difficult in any way. In the meantime, I am trying to recreate the old Standalone app method (See Jacquelines? post in this thread) that opens stacks. 2 or more OSs ago this was extremely easy to do, but because of the increasing complexity of Apple requirements (and Windows?) it is now quite difficult and I have yet to succeed at it. Even if it is still possible, I shudder to think what they will do next to further complicate our efforts to simple collaborate and share with family and friends. Thanks to all who are taking an interest. Roger > On Mar 28, 2021, at 9:14 PM, John Balgenorth via use-livecode wrote: > > I was thinking one of the reasons people were saying not to provide a > scaled down version of the development system to do it was because > they were afraid it would interfere with the license. But since you can > do it according to some of you is proof you are allowed to automate > the process and that should not interfere with the user license. > > JB > >> On Mar 28, 2021, at 9:04 PM, Dev via use-livecode wrote: >> >> ?If it works, the upside is that anyone can do it themselves and coach their family into doing the two step process once on the first time install. >> >> If it doesn?t work, we need to get a real developer to make a real app that jumps through Apple?s hoops. And then the developer has to keep it updated every time Apple makes a change. >> >> I agree this whole thing is a bother, but as other posts have pointed out, ?This is not the good old days and security is not going away? so this whole discussion is trying to find the narrowest point to cross. If the amateurs can do it themselves with a two step magic incantation, then this puts the ball back in their court and allows them into the game with out going through the Apple doorway. >> >> Kelly >> >>> On 28 Mar, 2021, at 9:54 PM, John Balgenorth via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> I may have got lost on this subject but if his goal was to make it >>> easy for people to open his app by doing something like using a >>> scaled down version of the development system then this one >>> step of doing it twice is a valid reason for using what he wanted >>> because people do not want to be bothered with things like that. >>> >>> JB >>> >>>>> On Mar 28, 2021, at 8:41 PM, scott--- via use-livecode wrote: >>>> >>>> ? >>>> I may have described it incorrectly. After re-testing here on OS 11.2.3 I found that it required two tries. Trying to open it the first time meets with failure. But Right clicking and choosing ?Open? the second time gives a second dialog that will allow it to open. >>>> >>>> ? >>>> Scott >>>> >>>>> On Mar 28, 2021, at 2:58 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Nope! Right clicking on a standalone I?m trying to share with my wife on her iMac w OS 11.2 results in this menu: Open Attachment - Quick Look Attachment - Save Attachment?. - Save to Downloads Folder - Share - Copy - Speech >>>>> >>>>> Then, clicking on the ?Open Attachment? menu item results in the same response I reported earlier: a simple screen with this message: You do not have permission to open the application ?StackOmatic?. ?Contact your computer or network administrator for assistance? with a simple ?OK? button. Dead end as before! >>>>> >>>>> Further, at Kelly's suggestion to try and adjust settings in the Security and Privacy System Preferences to downgrade standards to allow a one time opening, I found nothing of the sort. >>>>> >>>>> So at this point, I think Kelly?s idea of someone with Apple credentials building a certified standalone that runs stacks is the only short term solution. If it helps, I and probably others, would be willing to pay a reasonable fee for such gem. Otherwise, I and anyone else wanting to share stacks, will have to jump through the increasingly ridiculous hoops that Apple (and Windows?) place before us. OTH?. >>>>> >>>>> Ultimately, I really think that a LiveCodeLight app that runs stacks without the IDE would be the best way to go to share stacks with friends, family and colleagues. >>>>> >>>>> Roger >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> On Mar 28, 2021, at 12:24 AM, scott--- via use-livecode wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Kelly is correct. While holding down the control key, click and hold (or right click) to get an additional menu allowing you to choose to open the app. >>>>>> ? >>>>>> Scott >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From sundown.pacifier at icloud.com Mon Mar 29 01:17:06 2021 From: sundown.pacifier at icloud.com (John Balgenorth) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2021 22:17:06 -0700 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5F43B66A-5D41-4D5A-B818-9AFDCBDD9083@icloud.com> Thanks for clarifying that for me! As far as the license stuff goes on the community version I personally think the community is allowed to supersede LiveCode if they feel like investing the time. It should not be able to be held back just to make sure all of the new features are done by the LiveCode Team. As long as it is kept public like the community version was designed to do. JB > On Mar 28, 2021, at 10:04 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: > > ?John et al, > > To recap: > > My ultimate goal is to get support for RunRev to provide a LiveCodeLight download that opens stacks but hides or strips the IDE. I can?t believe this would be difficult in any way. > > In the meantime, I am trying to recreate the old Standalone app method (See Jacquelines? post in this thread) that opens stacks. 2 or more OSs ago this was extremely easy to do, but because of the increasing complexity of Apple requirements (and Windows?) it is now quite difficult and I have yet to succeed at it. Even if it is still possible, I shudder to think what they will do next to further complicate our efforts to simple collaborate and share with family and friends. > > Thanks to all who are taking an interest. > > Roger > > > >> On Mar 28, 2021, at 9:14 PM, John Balgenorth via use-livecode wrote: >> >> I was thinking one of the reasons people were saying not to provide a >> scaled down version of the development system to do it was because >> they were afraid it would interfere with the license. But since you can >> do it according to some of you is proof you are allowed to automate >> the process and that should not interfere with the user license. >> >> JB >> >>>> On Mar 28, 2021, at 9:04 PM, Dev via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> ?If it works, the upside is that anyone can do it themselves and coach their family into doing the two step process once on the first time install. >>> >>> If it doesn?t work, we need to get a real developer to make a real app that jumps through Apple?s hoops. And then the developer has to keep it updated every time Apple makes a change. >>> >>> I agree this whole thing is a bother, but as other posts have pointed out, ?This is not the good old days and security is not going away? so this whole discussion is trying to find the narrowest point to cross. If the amateurs can do it themselves with a two step magic incantation, then this puts the ball back in their court and allows them into the game with out going through the Apple doorway. >>> >>> Kelly >>> >>>> On 28 Mar, 2021, at 9:54 PM, John Balgenorth via use-livecode wrote: >>>> >>>> I may have got lost on this subject but if his goal was to make it >>>> easy for people to open his app by doing something like using a >>>> scaled down version of the development system then this one >>>> step of doing it twice is a valid reason for using what he wanted >>>> because people do not want to be bothered with things like that. >>>> >>>> JB >>>> >>>>>> On Mar 28, 2021, at 8:41 PM, scott--- via use-livecode wrote: >>>>> >>>>> ? >>>>> I may have described it incorrectly. After re-testing here on OS 11.2.3 I found that it required two tries. Trying to open it the first time meets with failure. But Right clicking and choosing ?Open? the second time gives a second dialog that will allow it to open. >>>>> >>>>> ? >>>>> Scott >>>>> >>>>>> On Mar 28, 2021, at 2:58 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Nope! Right clicking on a standalone I?m trying to share with my wife on her iMac w OS 11.2 results in this menu: Open Attachment - Quick Look Attachment - Save Attachment?. - Save to Downloads Folder - Share - Copy - Speech >>>>>> >>>>>> Then, clicking on the ?Open Attachment? menu item results in the same response I reported earlier: a simple screen with this message: You do not have permission to open the application ?StackOmatic?. ?Contact your computer or network administrator for assistance? with a simple ?OK? button. Dead end as before! >>>>>> >>>>>> Further, at Kelly's suggestion to try and adjust settings in the Security and Privacy System Preferences to downgrade standards to allow a one time opening, I found nothing of the sort. >>>>>> >>>>>> So at this point, I think Kelly?s idea of someone with Apple credentials building a certified standalone that runs stacks is the only short term solution. If it helps, I and probably others, would be willing to pay a reasonable fee for such gem. Otherwise, I and anyone else wanting to share stacks, will have to jump through the increasingly ridiculous hoops that Apple (and Windows?) place before us. OTH?. >>>>>> >>>>>> Ultimately, I really think that a LiveCodeLight app that runs stacks without the IDE would be the best way to go to share stacks with friends, family and colleagues. >>>>>> >>>>>> Roger >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mar 28, 2021, at 12:24 AM, scott--- via use-livecode wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Kelly is correct. While holding down the control key, click and hold (or right click) to get an additional menu allowing you to choose to open the app. >>>>>>> ? >>>>>>> Scott >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mark at livecode.com Mon Mar 29 03:54:40 2021 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 08:54:40 +0100 Subject: Resources folder on mac, and the good old days In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <78931cebb399e1f758abca18a66ccd08@livecode.com> On 2021-03-29 03:13, Neville Smythe via use-livecode wrote: >> you may already know this, but this will not work in a standalone! >> We will surely not have write permissions in that folder! >> >> As a workaround I would probably use -> specialfolderpath("temporary") >> Or even write the text to -> the tempname > There is no problem writing to the resources folder. That?s the > logical place to put the user-changeable stack files for a standalone, > making the auxiliary files invisible to external fiddling by the user, > which a Good Thing (although that does make the app look different on > Windows or Linux). Unfortunately this has never been true on macOS X. The Resources folder (which is in the macOS app bundle) should be treated as read-only... This has always been true - the correct (Apple guideline compliant!) place to put files that are 'internal' to the app but created/modified at runtime and which should persist between restarts of the app is in the 'Application Support' folder - in a sub-folder which is named the same as the app's id (e.g. com.myapp.mycompany). [ Apple guidance is here - ] The read-only ness of resources isn't strictly enforced - especially if the standalone is built on the machine it is run (app bundles downloaded from the internet, for example, have file attributes added which mark them as 'quarantined' - even if unpacked from a zip/archive)... However, you will notice some more 'unpleasant' effects, typically, if you move the standalone to another machine - these will range from prompt dialogs allowing access, to dialogs requesting root permission (if the user has put the standalone, say, in /Applications). In contrast, I do not believe that writing to stuff under 'Application Support' ever produces a user-visible prompt dialog on any version of macOS. Additionally, code-signing requirements are becoming more stringent over time - off the top of my head I can't remember whether codesign has started including non-executable resources in the signature - but as soon as it does (if it doesn't already), any signed and notarized app will break if any of the files in the app bundle are modified / removed / added to. > As for the Good Old Days of free distribution to other Mac (desktop) > users, they haven?t gone. Apple is making it harder for the > uninitiated to find out how to open ?unsafe? files, but they don't > keep it a secret. And while recent rumours abound about unnotarized > apps not working at all on some future MacOS, it does seem unlikely > that will actually happen, and if they do that?s time for us all to > reboot to Linux. Indeed, it is unlikely that Apple will ever completely stop unnotarized apps from running (although they keep changing what you have to toggle to enable right-click Open to open the app!) - but ensuring you use appropriate paths for temporary / private writable app files means the least friction for the user. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mark at livecode.com Mon Mar 29 04:04:04 2021 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 09:04:04 +0100 Subject: Unreliable File Deletion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 2021-03-28 18:11, R.H. via use-livecode wrote: > @ Peter Reid > > Your message found my attention. > Also I am working on Windows 10 and have the same problem using LC > 9.6.1 > Indy version. > > The similar or same problem as you have: I want to delete the text > file. > The command I issue is "detele file ". The error it returns: > "Can't delete file". All cases of people reporting bugs with 'delete file' on Windows that I have seen fall into one of two cases: 1) The path they give to 'delete file' is wrong. 2) The file they are trying to delete is open by the app, or by another app. In terms of (1) - its easy to determine - log the path you are using, or use 'there is a file ' (but make sure the file you are checking for / logging *is* actually the same path as being passed to 'delete file'). In terms of (2) - Windows and UNIX-derived OSes have a critical difference when it comes to filesystems - in UNIX land you can delete a file which another process has open, on Windows you can't. (Note: It is possible for multiple processes on Windows to open the same file, if none have requested exclusive access, but the file cannot be deleted/renamed/moved until it is not open by any process). >> ... // Delete temp file > ... delete file ("binfile:"&tFilePath) > ... put the result into tResult > ... if "can't delete that file" is in tResult then > > ...... myMSG tHInfo & "File could not be deleted." &CR& tFilePath --> > My > message handler This script falls into category (1) above - you are giving delete file a binfile URL. The 'delete file' command requires a normal file path, not a URL of any kind. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From dvglasgow at gmail.com Mon Mar 29 05:50:05 2021 From: dvglasgow at gmail.com (David V Glasgow) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 10:50:05 +0100 Subject: Resources folder on mac, and the good old days In-Reply-To: <78931cebb399e1f758abca18a66ccd08@livecode.com> References: <78931cebb399e1f758abca18a66ccd08@livecode.com> Message-ID: I am following this with interest because, as I have previously lamented, I would like to give away apps to colleagues without the huge, incomprehensible headache of certificates, signing and notarising etc. I want to make absolutely sure that I understand it correctly, that a player app which was enabled to run on a machine (either by user or the more formal method) could be designed to list and run any number of stacks distributed as stacks, and placed in a designated folder or sub folder. If correct, doesn?t that: A/ Enable distribution and updating of any LC ?app? simply by the prospective user dropping it into the correct folder? (AKA ?the good old days') B/ Undermine the fundamental intention of certification in the first place? (Personally, I would trust Livecoders, and indeed often run posted stacks without a second thought, but what if Richmond* went over to the dark side?) Cheers David G * Selected not because I think he might, but because the idea is amusing From klaus at major-k.de Mon Mar 29 06:17:03 2021 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 12:17:03 +0200 Subject: mouseenter/mouseleave and pointer tool Message-ID: <815D11F3-1AEF-42BD-A54A-F195613FFBB7@major-k.de> Hi friends, when the pointer tool is active, "mouseenter" and "mouseleave" handlers are executed nevertheless!? I don't this this is correct behaviour! For the sake of "conceptional continuity" (?Frank Zappa) then all other mouse handlers should be executed and we don't want that. :-) All or nothing, right? I could swear this was not the case in earlier version, so I searched my archives and found that this must have started with version 5.x of LC I have an old MetaCard version with Rev engine 4.1 where this does NOT happen. But DOES with LC version 5.02 What do you think? Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From klaus at major-k.de Mon Mar 29 06:31:55 2021 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 12:31:55 +0200 Subject: mouseenter/mouseleave and pointer tool Message-ID: Hi friends, when the pointer tool is active, "mouseenter" and "mouseleave" handlers are executed nevertheless!? I don't this this is correct behaviour! For the sake of "conceptional continuity" (?Frank Zappa) then all other mouse handlers should be executed and we don't want that. :-) All or nothing, right? I could swear this was not the case in earlier version, so I searched my archives and found that this must have started with version 5.x of LC I have an old MetaCard version with Rev engine 4.1 where this does NOT happen. But DOES with LC version 5.02 What do you think? Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From toolbook at kestner.de Mon Mar 29 09:24:39 2021 From: toolbook at kestner.de (toolbook at kestner.de) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 15:24:39 +0200 Subject: How to install tsNet correctly? Message-ID: <001501d7249e$dfb6f0a0$9f24d1e0$@kestner.de> Hello, it's some time ago, that I build a new install. On Windows I formerly just copied the "tsNet-x86" dll into the Externals folder in my runtime dir and everything was fine. When looking into the LC install dir on C:\programs\runrev\ there is a \Ext\tsNet_Indy_1.4.2\ folder with quite some files and subfolders. Is it still sufficient, to copy the tsNet-x86_64.dll (and tsNet-x86.dll?) to my runtime dir, or should I copy the whole folder \Ext\tsNet_Indy_1.4.2 into my runtime dir? Or does LC handles everything automatically by now and I don't I have to copy the needed dlls manually? I really don't know anymore, I couldn't follow the list for some time. And on osMAC? Thanks Tiemo From craig at starfirelighting.com Mon Mar 29 09:29:11 2021 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 09:29:11 -0400 Subject: mouseenter/mouseleave and pointer tool In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0D95B121-510F-4227-9E5E-3BDB3FC869E4@starfirelighting.com> Klaus. I have always seen this. It does seem a little odd,, though. You can always place something like this wherever you need to, but I know your question is ?Why do I need to? on mouseEnter if the tool = "browse tool" then pass mouseEnter end mouseEnter Craig > On Mar 29, 2021, at 6:31 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi friends, > > when the pointer tool is active, "mouseenter" and "mouseleave" > handlers are executed nevertheless!? > > I don't this this is correct behaviour! > > For the sake of "conceptional continuity" (?Frank Zappa) then all > other mouse handlers should be executed and we don't want that. :-) > All or nothing, right? > > I could swear this was not the case in earlier version, so I searched my > archives and found that this must have started with version 5.x of LC > > I have an old MetaCard version with Rev engine 4.1 where this does NOT happen. > But DOES with LC version 5.02 > > What do you think? > > > Best > > Klaus > -- > Klaus Major > https://www.major-k.de > https://www.major-k.de/bass > klaus at major-k.de > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at researchware.com Mon Mar 29 09:44:15 2021 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 09:44:15 -0400 Subject: mouseenter/mouseleave and pointer tool In-Reply-To: <815D11F3-1AEF-42BD-A54A-F195613FFBB7@major-k.de> References: <815D11F3-1AEF-42BD-A54A-F195613FFBB7@major-k.de> Message-ID: <0a1d5ea0-15f1-1331-20ed-95f5c32ca0a2@researchware.com> I think if you are making a drawing app in Livecode, you need mouseEnter and mouseLeave with the pointer tool so you can have object scrips change the cursor icon to appropriate icons when over certain special objects that you want to interact with as objects. On 3/29/2021 6:17 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > Hi friends, > > when the pointer tool is active, "mouseenter" and "mouseleave" > handlers are executed nevertheless!? > > I don't this this is correct behaviour! > > For the sake of "conceptional continuity" (?Frank Zappa) then all > other mouse handlers should be executed and we don't want that. :-) > All or nothing, right? > > I could swear this was not the case in earlier version, so I searched my > archives and found that this must have started with version 5.x of LC > > I have an old MetaCard version with Rev engine 4.1 where this does NOT happen. > But DOES with LC version 5.02 > > What do you think? > > > Best > > Klaus > -- > Klaus Major > https://www.major-k.de > https://www.major-k.de/bass > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at researchware.com Mon Mar 29 09:45:14 2021 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 09:45:14 -0400 Subject: mouseenter/mouseleave and pointer tool In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I think if you are making a drawing app in Livecode, you need mouseEnter and mouseLeave with the pointer tool so you can have object scrips change the cursor icon to appropriate icons when over certain special objects that you want to interact with as objects. On 3/29/2021 6:31 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > Hi friends, > > when the pointer tool is active, "mouseenter" and "mouseleave" > handlers are executed nevertheless!? > > I don't this this is correct behaviour! > > For the sake of "conceptional continuity" (?Frank Zappa) then all > other mouse handlers should be executed and we don't want that. :-) > All or nothing, right? > > I could swear this was not the case in earlier version, so I searched my > archives and found that this must have started with version 5.x of LC > > I have an old MetaCard version with Rev engine 4.1 where this does NOT happen. > But DOES with LC version 5.02 > > What do you think? > > > Best > > Klaus > -- > Klaus Major > https://www.major-k.de > https://www.major-k.de/bass > klaus at major-k.de > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From craig at starfirelighting.com Mon Mar 29 09:45:24 2021 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 09:45:24 -0400 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: <5F43B66A-5D41-4D5A-B818-9AFDCBDD9083@icloud.com> References: <5F43B66A-5D41-4D5A-B818-9AFDCBDD9083@icloud.com> Message-ID: <2FE10EA9-E251-4111-84B5-279A10CFCEAE@starfirelighting.com> I have been following this thread with interest, and have no idea what anyone is talking about. I make and update standalones regularly on my Mac, and distribute them to many Windows and Mac desktop users in my company. All for ?personal? use. Somewhere in the middle of all this, I thought that the issue was distributing to mobile, and saw the problem, but then noticed that the issue was distributing to desktop, and became confused So though I may be breaking the law, what prevents anyone from doing what i do? What am i missing? Craig > On Mar 29, 2021, at 1:17 AM, John Balgenorth via use-livecode wrote: > > Thanks for clarifying that for me! > > As far as the license stuff goes on the community version I personally > think the community is allowed to supersede LiveCode if they feel like > investing the time. It should not be able to be held back just to make > sure all of the new features are done by the LiveCode Team. As long > as it is kept public like the community version was designed to do. > > JB > >> On Mar 28, 2021, at 10:04 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: >> >> ?John et al, >> >> To recap: >> >> My ultimate goal is to get support for RunRev to provide a LiveCodeLight download that opens stacks but hides or strips the IDE. I can?t believe this would be difficult in any way. >> >> In the meantime, I am trying to recreate the old Standalone app method (See Jacquelines? post in this thread) that opens stacks. 2 or more OSs ago this was extremely easy to do, but because of the increasing complexity of Apple requirements (and Windows?) it is now quite difficult and I have yet to succeed at it. Even if it is still possible, I shudder to think what they will do next to further complicate our efforts to simple collaborate and share with family and friends. >> >> Thanks to all who are taking an interest. >> >> Roger >> >> >> >>> On Mar 28, 2021, at 9:14 PM, John Balgenorth via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> I was thinking one of the reasons people were saying not to provide a >>> scaled down version of the development system to do it was because >>> they were afraid it would interfere with the license. But since you can >>> do it according to some of you is proof you are allowed to automate >>> the process and that should not interfere with the user license. >>> >>> JB >>> >>>>> On Mar 28, 2021, at 9:04 PM, Dev via use-livecode wrote: >>>> >>>> ?If it works, the upside is that anyone can do it themselves and coach their family into doing the two step process once on the first time install. >>>> >>>> If it doesn?t work, we need to get a real developer to make a real app that jumps through Apple?s hoops. And then the developer has to keep it updated every time Apple makes a change. >>>> >>>> I agree this whole thing is a bother, but as other posts have pointed out, ?This is not the good old days and security is not going away? so this whole discussion is trying to find the narrowest point to cross. If the amateurs can do it themselves with a two step magic incantation, then this puts the ball back in their court and allows them into the game with out going through the Apple doorway. >>>> >>>> Kelly >>>> >>>>> On 28 Mar, 2021, at 9:54 PM, John Balgenorth via use-livecode wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I may have got lost on this subject but if his goal was to make it >>>>> easy for people to open his app by doing something like using a >>>>> scaled down version of the development system then this one >>>>> step of doing it twice is a valid reason for using what he wanted >>>>> because people do not want to be bothered with things like that. >>>>> >>>>> JB >>>>> >>>>>>> On Mar 28, 2021, at 8:41 PM, scott--- via use-livecode wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> ? >>>>>> I may have described it incorrectly. After re-testing here on OS 11.2.3 I found that it required two tries. Trying to open it the first time meets with failure. But Right clicking and choosing ?Open? the second time gives a second dialog that will allow it to open. >>>>>> >>>>>> ? >>>>>> Scott >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mar 28, 2021, at 2:58 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Nope! Right clicking on a standalone I?m trying to share with my wife on her iMac w OS 11.2 results in this menu: Open Attachment - Quick Look Attachment - Save Attachment?. - Save to Downloads Folder - Share - Copy - Speech >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Then, clicking on the ?Open Attachment? menu item results in the same response I reported earlier: a simple screen with this message: You do not have permission to open the application ?StackOmatic?. ?Contact your computer or network administrator for assistance? with a simple ?OK? button. Dead end as before! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Further, at Kelly's suggestion to try and adjust settings in the Security and Privacy System Preferences to downgrade standards to allow a one time opening, I found nothing of the sort. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So at this point, I think Kelly?s idea of someone with Apple credentials building a certified standalone that runs stacks is the only short term solution. If it helps, I and probably others, would be willing to pay a reasonable fee for such gem. Otherwise, I and anyone else wanting to share stacks, will have to jump through the increasingly ridiculous hoops that Apple (and Windows?) place before us. OTH?. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ultimately, I really think that a LiveCodeLight app that runs stacks without the IDE would be the best way to go to share stacks with friends, family and colleagues. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Roger >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Mar 28, 2021, at 12:24 AM, scott--- via use-livecode wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Kelly is correct. While holding down the control key, click and hold (or right click) to get an additional menu allowing you to choose to open the app. >>>>>>>> ? >>>>>>>> Scott >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Mon Mar 29 09:46:35 2021 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 15:46:35 +0200 Subject: How to install tsNet correctly? In-Reply-To: <001501d7249e$dfb6f0a0$9f24d1e0$@kestner.de> References: <001501d7249e$dfb6f0a0$9f24d1e0$@kestner.de> Message-ID: <527175FF-B202-4F65-8E7C-28DAF0B65F28@m-r-d.de> Hi Tiemo, please see my answers below. Regards, Matthias > Am 29.03.2021 um 15:24 schrieb Tiemo via use-livecode : > > Hello, > > it's some time ago, that I build a new install. > > > > On Windows I formerly just copied the "tsNet-x86" dll into the Externals > folder in my runtime dir and everything was fine. > > When looking into the LC install dir on C:\programs\runrev\ there is a > \Ext\tsNet_Indy_1.4.2\ folder with quite some files and subfolders. > > Is it still sufficient, to copy the tsNet-x86_64.dll (and tsNet-x86.dll?) to > my runtime dir, or should I copy the whole folder \Ext\tsNet_Indy_1.4.2 into > my runtime dir? > LC handles the inclusion of tsNET if "search for required inclusions..." is selected in the standalone settings. For Windows the tsNet external still is just the .dll (tsNet-x86.dll for 32bit tsNet-x86_64.dll for 64bit) > Or does LC handles everything automatically by now and I don't I have to > copy the needed dlls manually? I really don't know anymore, I couldn't > follow the list for some time. > > And on osMAC? > Same, inclusion of tsNet is handled by LC if "search for..." is selected. Btw., in which version of LC did you notice that faulty behaviour? Regards, Matthias > > > Thanks > > Tiemo > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From toolbook at kestner.de Mon Mar 29 10:51:03 2021 From: toolbook at kestner.de (toolbook at kestner.de) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 16:51:03 +0200 Subject: AW: How to install tsNet correctly? In-Reply-To: <527175FF-B202-4F65-8E7C-28DAF0B65F28@m-r-d.de> References: <001501d7249e$dfb6f0a0$9f24d1e0$@kestner.de> <527175FF-B202-4F65-8E7C-28DAF0B65F28@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <001c01d724aa$f11626c0$d3427440$@kestner.de> Thanks Matthias for your quick jump in. It obviously was a very old behaviour of mine, regarding some very old version ? Tiemo -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: use-livecode Im Auftrag von matthias rebbe via use-livecode Gesendet: Montag, 29. M?rz 2021 15:47 An: How to use LiveCode Cc: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Betreff: Re: How to install tsNet correctly? Hi Tiemo, please see my answers below. Regards, Matthias > Am 29.03.2021 um 15:24 schrieb Tiemo via use-livecode : > > Hello, > > it's some time ago, that I build a new install. > > > > On Windows I formerly just copied the "tsNet-x86" dll into the > Externals folder in my runtime dir and everything was fine. > > When looking into the LC install dir on C:\programs\runrev\ there is a > \Ext\tsNet_Indy_1.4.2\ folder with quite some files and subfolders. > > Is it still sufficient, to copy the tsNet-x86_64.dll (and > tsNet-x86.dll?) to my runtime dir, or should I copy the whole folder > \Ext\tsNet_Indy_1.4.2 into my runtime dir? > LC handles the inclusion of tsNET if "search for required inclusions..." is selected in the standalone settings. For Windows the tsNet external still is just the .dll (tsNet-x86.dll for 32bit tsNet-x86_64.dll for 64bit) > Or does LC handles everything automatically by now and I don't I have > to copy the needed dlls manually? I really don't know anymore, I > couldn't follow the list for some time. > > And on osMAC? > Same, inclusion of tsNet is handled by LC if "search for..." is selected. Btw., in which version of LC did you notice that faulty behaviour? Regards, Matthias > > > Thanks > > Tiemo > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From merakosp at gmail.com Mon Mar 29 10:59:42 2021 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 17:59:42 +0300 Subject: mobileStoreMakePurchase not working for iOS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Andrew, Just to mention that in-app purchases are not supported in the Simulator. Kind regards, Panos -- On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 at 05:29, Andrew at MidWest Coast Media via use-livecode wrote: > I have released my first project with in-app purchases but only to 50% > platform success: Android works but iOS does not. I?m using the directions > at > https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4069/l/186807-how-do-i-implement-in-app-purchases-in-livecode-apple-appstore > but am getting generic errors. > > I had been receiving the dreaded ?Cannot connect to iTunes Store? error, > but did the test user creation dance a couple times to step past that. > When trying in the simulator with a real user account or registered > sandbox user I?m getting a mobileStorePurchaseError of ?UNKNOWN_ERROR" > When trying on the device (production build from App Store) I?m getting a > mobileStorePurchaseError of ?An unknown error occurred? > > These are all submitted and approved consumables registered in App Store > Connect. Is there anyway to track down a more descriptive error message? > Same code is working for Google Play. > > Compiled with LiveCode 9.6.2rc3 on macOS 11.0.1 using Xcode 12.1 > > ?Andrew Bell > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From panos.merakos at livecode.com Mon Mar 29 11:16:26 2021 From: panos.merakos at livecode.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 18:16:26 +0300 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 260 Message-ID: Hi all, Read about new developments in LiveCode open source and the open source community in today's edition of the "This Week in LiveCode" newsletter! Read issue #260 here: https://bit.ly/3u1lz5K This is a weekly newsletter about LiveCode, focussing on what's been going on in and around the open source project. New issues will be released weekly on Mondays. We have a dedicated mailing list that will deliver each issue directly to your e-mail, so you don't miss any! If you have anything you'd like mentioned (a project, a discussion somewhere, an upcoming event) then please get in touch. -- Panagiotis Merakos LiveCode Software Developer Everyone Can Create Apps From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Mar 29 11:55:51 2021 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 08:55:51 -0700 Subject: We don't need a Player (was Re: New(?) Idea for Standalones) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2b25a1e5-4bb2-4669-1c21-f7a32daec507@fourthworld.com> TL/DR: We don't need a generic player. What we need is an updated Standalone Builder, to provide more complete tooling and better guidance for building a modern standalone. ------------- more complete version ---------------------------- Background ---------- This thread, and many others like it, didn't start with a desire for a player. That was merely a response to the challenges of building standalones. Building standalones is the point of LiveCode, the culmination of everything in LC's user experience. And it's become a pain point for most, early-prohibitive for some. OS changes are of course not LC's fault. But they are LC's opportunity, if the company wants to maintain its place as the easiest solution for making apps. The Last Great Deployment Change -------------------------------- Back in the early days, the IDE's Standalone Builder didn't provide any support for document associations, creator codes, or other essentials we now take for granted. It was expected we'd open some dev tool from Apple (ResEdit) to set those up. LC Ltd recognized those steps were cumbersome, and often error-prone where they were being done at all. So they took the time to completely redesign the Standalone Builder to include support for nearly every detail apps need for solid deployment. The Next Great Deployment Change -------------------------------- Many if not most deployment tooling required by OSes are command-line apps, lending themselves well to being called from another program, such as LC's Standalone Builder. Automate everything possible. And where a step can't be automated, guidance and be provided, such as a direct link right in the SB's UI to the necessary steps for completing the process, laid out with sufficient clarity and detail to allow the user to complete the build with confidence. If a standalone building step is essential, it needs to be handled in the Standalone Builder. Use direct automation where possible, or a direct link in the UI to step-by-step instructions needed to complete the task. The Business Case ----------------- As we've seen here and many other threads like it from time to time, as long as building a standalone in LC is characterized by confusion and dread, people will seek alternatives. Any alternative either compromises LC's revenue model (based as it is around standalone licensing), or eliminates it (if LC is just as hard to use as anything else, why not use anything else?). No option provides as much return on investment as focusing on updating the Standalone Builder to be as simple and graceful as it can possibly be. LC has a strong advantage with its language, made a nearly unbeatable with its integrated GUI object model. Bring deployment up to par with the rest of the experience, and LC has a chance for a good life ahead, slowing attrition rates while accelerating growth. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From mark at livecode.com Mon Mar 29 12:15:14 2021 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 17:15:14 +0100 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: References: <63b01206-58ad-100e-4017-2cebf751d040@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <6defc43870f74a7b653e7b87bb6c709b@livecode.com> On 2021-03-27 22:22, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > Also note: The stacks you distribute cannot violate the LC license > agreement. They can't reproduce IDE features or allow users to do > things that only a licensed user can do. Please don't violate the > license agreement; we all want LC to prosper. Indeed. I feel I must explicitly point out at this point that, in addition to forbidding creation of LiveCode-IDE-like applications, the commercial license agreement also explicitly prohibit generic player apps (or indeed any player app which allows a non-commercially licensed user to access commercial features). I strongly recommend reviewing section 3 of the (commercial) license agreement for full details. The reason these clauses are there is to ensure we don't end up in a situation where we only ever sell one LC license a year: to a person who creates and distributes a player app and an automated build service using a business license to spit out standalones for everyone else who is using Community. In terms of the general thrust behind this thread - I completely agree that standalone building has become tortuous over the last few years as all platforms add more and more hoops you have to jump through. However, this is probably best done by improving the standalone building process (i.e. making it as easy as possible) rather than anything else. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From sundown.pacifier at icloud.com Mon Mar 29 12:22:26 2021 From: sundown.pacifier at icloud.com (John Balgenorth) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 09:22:26 -0700 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: <6defc43870f74a7b653e7b87bb6c709b@livecode.com> References: <6defc43870f74a7b653e7b87bb6c709b@livecode.com> Message-ID: <3B9366C4-8CC4-471C-9865-A1F4345135AD@icloud.com> And another good reason not to kick sand in LC?s face is they appear to be the only ones who have invested the money and time for the free community version to exist as it is today with the many features it has now. Think about if before you become so cheap & selfish that you try to destroy them. JB > On Mar 29, 2021, at 9:16 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: > > ?On 2021-03-27 22:22, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >> Also note: The stacks you distribute cannot violate the LC license >> agreement. They can't reproduce IDE features or allow users to do >> things that only a licensed user can do. Please don't violate the >> license agreement; we all want LC to prosper. > > Indeed. > > I feel I must explicitly point out at this point that, in addition to forbidding creation of LiveCode-IDE-like applications, the commercial license agreement also explicitly prohibit generic player apps (or indeed any player app which allows a non-commercially licensed user to access commercial features). > > I strongly recommend reviewing section 3 of the (commercial) license agreement for full details. The reason these clauses are there is to ensure we don't end up in a situation where we only ever sell one LC license a year: to a person who creates and distributes a player app and an automated build service using a business license to spit out standalones for everyone else who is using Community. > > In terms of the general thrust behind this thread - I completely agree that standalone building has become tortuous over the last few years as all platforms add more and more hoops you have to jump through. However, this is probably best done by improving the standalone building process (i.e. making it as easy as possible) rather than anything else. > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > > -- > Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ > LiveCode: Everyone can create apps > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From irog at mac.com Mon Mar 29 12:28:48 2021 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 09:28:48 -0700 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: <2FE10EA9-E251-4111-84B5-279A10CFCEAE@starfirelighting.com> References: <5F43B66A-5D41-4D5A-B818-9AFDCBDD9083@icloud.com> <2FE10EA9-E251-4111-84B5-279A10CFCEAE@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: <7BEF0DAA-B967-4CF5-89F1-96C639EC4814@mac.com> Craig, I apologize for the confusion. I tended to shift focus throughout this thread. I too have, in the past, made and distributed standalones with great ease. But recently Apple and perhaps others have made it very difficult to do this as they are now requiring(?) that one be an Apple developer with an increasingly complex process for certifying apps for distribution. In this thread, others have claimed that one can still do this (build distributable standalones w/o being an Apple developer etc.) with a slightly more convoluted process which I have not yet been able to replicate on Mac OS 11.2. I?m still working on it. In any case it is not as easy as it use to be and IMO, this door may be closing. All I want is a simple reliable, repeatable easy to use method/process for sharing stacks or Standalones with friends, family and colleagues without having to become an Apple developer. So Craig, I would appreciate knowing more about your process. HTH, Roger > I make and update standalones regularly on my Mac, and distribute them to many Windows and Mac desktop users in my company. All for ?personal? use. > From harrison at all-auctions.com Mon Mar 29 12:36:44 2021 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 12:36:44 -0400 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: <6defc43870f74a7b653e7b87bb6c709b@livecode.com> References: <63b01206-58ad-100e-4017-2cebf751d040@fourthworld.com> <6defc43870f74a7b653e7b87bb6c709b@livecode.com> Message-ID: Hi Mark, Perhaps improving standalone building should be put at the top of the priority of things to improve for LiveCode. I think people are very frustrated that they are having great difficulties in building a standalone. A process that used to be relatively simple is now way too complex. Many LC users want to be able to create their application, and deploy it quickly to their own computers, or to give away to their family members. They are not interested in inserting Apple or other corporations into their personal programming loop, and a lot of us feel the same way. No one wants to deal with having to create bundle ids or other corporate nonsense. (Option for a unique random bundle id generator here?) I believe users want LC to step up it?s game in dealing with these issues so the deployment experience is an enjoyable one, and not a PITA. Successfully addressing this problem helps everyone! Just my 2 cents for the day. ;-) Rick > > In terms of the general thrust behind this thread - I completely agree that standalone building has become tortuous over the last few years as all platforms add more and more hoops you have to jump through. However, this is probably best done by improving the standalone building process (i.e. making it as easy as possible) rather than anything else. > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > > -- > Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ > LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From irog at mac.com Mon Mar 29 12:36:51 2021 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 09:36:51 -0700 Subject: We don't need a Player (was Re: New(?) Idea for Standalones) In-Reply-To: <2b25a1e5-4bb2-4669-1c21-f7a32daec507@fourthworld.com> References: <2b25a1e5-4bb2-4669-1c21-f7a32daec507@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: YES . . . What he said! > On Mar 29, 2021, at 8:55 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > TL/DR: > > We don't need a generic player. > > What we need is an updated Standalone Builder, to provide more complete tooling and better guidance for building a modern standalone. > > > > ------------- more complete version ---------------------------- > > > Background > ---------- > > This thread, and many others like it, didn't start with a desire for a player. That was merely a response to the challenges of building standalones. > > Building standalones is the point of LiveCode, the culmination of everything in LC's user experience. > > And it's become a pain point for most, early-prohibitive for some. > > OS changes are of course not LC's fault. But they are LC's opportunity, if the company wants to maintain its place as the easiest solution for making apps. > > > > The Last Great Deployment Change > -------------------------------- > > Back in the early days, the IDE's Standalone Builder didn't provide any support for document associations, creator codes, or other essentials we now take for granted. It was expected we'd open some dev tool from Apple (ResEdit) to set those up. > > LC Ltd recognized those steps were cumbersome, and often error-prone where they were being done at all. > > So they took the time to completely redesign the Standalone Builder to include support for nearly every detail apps need for solid deployment. > > > > The Next Great Deployment Change > -------------------------------- > > Many if not most deployment tooling required by OSes are command-line apps, lending themselves well to being called from another program, such as LC's Standalone Builder. > > Automate everything possible. > > And where a step can't be automated, guidance and be provided, such as a direct link right in the SB's UI to the necessary steps for completing the process, laid out with sufficient clarity and detail to allow the user to complete the build with confidence. > > If a standalone building step is essential, it needs to be handled in the Standalone Builder. > > Use direct automation where possible, or a direct link in the UI to step-by-step instructions needed to complete the task. > > > > The Business Case > ----------------- > As we've seen here and many other threads like it from time to time, as long as building a standalone in LC is characterized by confusion and dread, people will seek alternatives. > > Any alternative either compromises LC's revenue model (based as it is around standalone licensing), or eliminates it (if LC is just as hard to use as anything else, why not use anything else?). > > No option provides as much return on investment as focusing on updating the Standalone Builder to be as simple and graceful as it can possibly be. > > LC has a strong advantage with its language, made a nearly unbeatable with its integrated GUI object model. > > Bring deployment up to par with the rest of the experience, and LC has a chance for a good life ahead, slowing attrition rates while accelerating growth. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Mar 29 12:54:41 2021 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 11:54:41 -0500 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: <6defc43870f74a7b653e7b87bb6c709b@livecode.com> References: <63b01206-58ad-100e-4017-2cebf751d040@fourthworld.com> <6defc43870f74a7b653e7b87bb6c709b@livecode.com> Message-ID: <1787ee8ac68.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Unfortunately nothing can replace the requirement for an Apple developer account on Mac, which is the reason for the request here. But I'd love to see notarization and stapling built in. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On March 29, 2021 11:17:06 AM Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: > > In terms of the general thrust behind this thread - I completely agree > that standalone building has become tortuous over the last few years as > all platforms add more and more hoops you have to jump through. However, > this is probably best done by improving the standalone building process > (i.e. making it as easy as possible) rather than anything else. From paul at researchware.com Mon Mar 29 12:54:20 2021 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 12:54:20 -0400 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: <6defc43870f74a7b653e7b87bb6c709b@livecode.com> References: <63b01206-58ad-100e-4017-2cebf751d040@fourthworld.com> <6defc43870f74a7b653e7b87bb6c709b@livecode.com> Message-ID: <936ebea8-ebf3-9757-6fde-bf7250605882@researchware.com> On 3/29/2021 12:15 PM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: > In terms of the general thrust behind this thread - I completely agree > that standalone building has become tortuous over the last few years > as all platforms add more and more hoops you have to jump through. > However, this is probably best done by improving the standalone > building process (i.e. making it as easy as possible) rather than > anything else. I complete agree that enhanced standalone building (vs any sort of player other than LiveCode itself as is) is the way to go - as Richard's new thread discusses. Sadly, one thing I don't think we'll ever get back is single platform building. I started off in LC building for macOS and Widows (and sometime Linux) on Windows. And that was wonderful and super convenient to be able to do that. Then along came code signing requirements and I could (and can) still built on 1 platform for several, but I must code sign on each. And then Apple introduced the notarization requirement, yet one more thing that required platform differentiation. What I would not give to get back to click one button and get code signed, notarized, and whatever to heck else standalones for all my deployment platforms all on a single platform (preferably Windows for me)! I just think that the OS vendors will never let us get back to that. From paul at researchware.com Mon Mar 29 12:57:41 2021 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 12:57:41 -0400 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: References: <63b01206-58ad-100e-4017-2cebf751d040@fourthworld.com> <6defc43870f74a7b653e7b87bb6c709b@livecode.com> Message-ID: <476482c2-5b2c-fe46-6971-c4d133d87807@researchware.com> On 3/29/2021 12:36 PM, Rick Harrison via use-livecode wrote: > Many LC users want to be able to create their application, > and deploy it quickly to their own computers, or to give > away to their family members. They are not interested > in inserting Apple or other corporations into their personal > programming loop, and a lot of us feel the same way. The real people to make this very valid complaint to is Apple and Microsoft. They are the reason why Standalone building is so complex. They are actively changing their operating systems to make it harder and harder (if not impossible) to build and app to just give to a family member without inserting them (Apple and/or Microsoft) into the loop. From brian at milby7.com Mon Mar 29 12:58:37 2021 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 12:58:37 -0400 Subject: We don't need a Player (was Re: New(?) Idea for Standalones) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43BE054C-008B-43C4-8E25-8F1F01A4D066@milby7.com> The days of distributing apps without a cost to the developer are unfortunately over (Mac/Win). If you want someone to be able to open an app on their Mac without jumping through hoops, then you need to be a paid developer and do the sign/notarize dance. LC could help automate parts of the process, but getting the certificates seems to require some manual steps. First advanced session in LCG covered it last week (but since I don?t do it, I did not fully pay attention to all of the details). Sent from my iPhone > On Mar 29, 2021, at 12:38 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: > > ?YES . . . What he said! > >> On Mar 29, 2021, at 8:55 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: >> >> TL/DR: >> >> We don't need a generic player. >> >> What we need is an updated Standalone Builder, to provide more complete tooling and better guidance for building a modern standalone. >> >> >> >> ------------- more complete version ---------------------------- >> >> >> Background >> ---------- >> >> This thread, and many others like it, didn't start with a desire for a player. That was merely a response to the challenges of building standalones. >> >> Building standalones is the point of LiveCode, the culmination of everything in LC's user experience. >> >> And it's become a pain point for most, early-prohibitive for some. >> >> OS changes are of course not LC's fault. But they are LC's opportunity, if the company wants to maintain its place as the easiest solution for making apps. >> >> >> >> The Last Great Deployment Change >> -------------------------------- >> >> Back in the early days, the IDE's Standalone Builder didn't provide any support for document associations, creator codes, or other essentials we now take for granted. It was expected we'd open some dev tool from Apple (ResEdit) to set those up. >> >> LC Ltd recognized those steps were cumbersome, and often error-prone where they were being done at all. >> >> So they took the time to completely redesign the Standalone Builder to include support for nearly every detail apps need for solid deployment. >> >> >> >> The Next Great Deployment Change >> -------------------------------- >> >> Many if not most deployment tooling required by OSes are command-line apps, lending themselves well to being called from another program, such as LC's Standalone Builder. >> >> Automate everything possible. >> >> And where a step can't be automated, guidance and be provided, such as a direct link right in the SB's UI to the necessary steps for completing the process, laid out with sufficient clarity and detail to allow the user to complete the build with confidence. >> >> If a standalone building step is essential, it needs to be handled in the Standalone Builder. >> >> Use direct automation where possible, or a direct link in the UI to step-by-step instructions needed to complete the task. >> >> >> >> The Business Case >> ----------------- >> As we've seen here and many other threads like it from time to time, as long as building a standalone in LC is characterized by confusion and dread, people will seek alternatives. >> >> Any alternative either compromises LC's revenue model (based as it is around standalone licensing), or eliminates it (if LC is just as hard to use as anything else, why not use anything else?). >> >> No option provides as much return on investment as focusing on updating the Standalone Builder to be as simple and graceful as it can possibly be. >> >> LC has a strong advantage with its language, made a nearly unbeatable with its integrated GUI object model. >> >> Bring deployment up to par with the rest of the experience, and LC has a chance for a good life ahead, slowing attrition rates while accelerating growth. >> >> -- >> Richard Gaskin >> Fourth World Systems >> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web >> ____________________________________________________________________ >> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at researchware.com Mon Mar 29 12:59:49 2021 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 12:59:49 -0400 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: <7BEF0DAA-B967-4CF5-89F1-96C639EC4814@mac.com> References: <5F43B66A-5D41-4D5A-B818-9AFDCBDD9083@icloud.com> <2FE10EA9-E251-4111-84B5-279A10CFCEAE@starfirelighting.com> <7BEF0DAA-B967-4CF5-89F1-96C639EC4814@mac.com> Message-ID: On 3/29/2021 12:28 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: > In any case it is not as easy as it use to be and IMO, this door may be closing. You are 100% right. The door is closing and will eventually be closed unless enough consumers of Apple (and Windows) products complain with their buying power to Apple and Microsoft. From irog at mac.com Mon Mar 29 13:01:33 2021 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 10:01:33 -0700 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: References: <63b01206-58ad-100e-4017-2cebf751d040@fourthworld.com> <6defc43870f74a7b653e7b87bb6c709b@livecode.com> Message-ID: <11B5B7C7-9089-4423-936B-66E34FA74541@mac.com> Beautifully said, Rick! Especially your point about it being a PITA. Thanks! > On Mar 29, 2021, at 9:36 AM, Rick Harrison via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi Mark, > > Perhaps improving standalone building should be put at > the top of the priority of things to improve for LiveCode. > > I think people are very frustrated that they are having > great difficulties in building a standalone. A process that > used to be relatively simple is now way too complex. > > Many LC users want to be able to create their application, > and deploy it quickly to their own computers, or to give > away to their family members. They are not interested > in inserting Apple or other corporations into their personal > programming loop, and a lot of us feel the same way. > > No one wants to deal with having to create bundle ids > or other corporate nonsense. (Option for a unique random > bundle id generator here?) > > I believe users want LC to step up it?s game in dealing > with these issues so the deployment experience is an > enjoyable one, and not a PITA. > > Successfully addressing this problem helps everyone! > > Just my 2 cents for the day. ;-) > > Rick > > >> >> In terms of the general thrust behind this thread - I completely agree that standalone building has become tortuous over the last few years as all platforms add more and more hoops you have to jump through. However, this is probably best done by improving the standalone building process (i.e. making it as easy as possible) rather than anything else. >> >> Warmest Regards, >> >> Mark. >> >> -- >> Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ >> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From lists at mangomultimedia.com Mon Mar 29 13:12:46 2021 From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 12:12:46 -0500 Subject: We don't need a Player (was Re: New(?) Idea for Standalones) In-Reply-To: <2b25a1e5-4bb2-4669-1c21-f7a32daec507@fourthworld.com> References: <2b25a1e5-4bb2-4669-1c21-f7a32daec507@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Mar 29, 2021 at 10:57 AM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > TL/DR: > > We don't need a generic player. > > What we need is an updated Standalone Builder, to provide more complete > tooling and better guidance for building a modern standalone. > An easy way to extend the standalone building process with plugins is a necessity IMO as well. For example, when packaging an app with Levure you can add in Helpers to further customize the output generated when packaging an app for distribution. In addition to handling signing, notarizing, and stapling, one can generate a DMG using DropDMG, create an InnoSetup installer script, creat a WIX installer script (creates a Windows installer file that IT departments love), etc. LiveCode doesn't need to build support for all of these in the SB, but it should provide hooks so that plugins can further customize the process. -- Trevor DeVore ScreenSteps www.screensteps.com From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Mon Mar 29 13:24:00 2021 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 19:24:00 +0200 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: <11B5B7C7-9089-4423-936B-66E34FA74541@mac.com> References: <63b01206-58ad-100e-4017-2cebf751d040@fourthworld.com> <6defc43870f74a7b653e7b87bb6c709b@livecode.com> <11B5B7C7-9089-4423-936B-66E34FA74541@mac.com> Message-ID: <6C1CC26F-037B-424E-B862-E1A3DC4BBD62@m-r-d.de> Don't blame Microsoft and Apple There is a reason why MS and Apple require such things. It is security. If there weren't any "bad" people who try to hack, hijack or infect our computers using viruses, trojan or other ways, then it wouldn't be necessary either. As a developer I am also not very happy with those security requirements, because building standalones for deployment take more time than it took several years ago. And purchasing a code signing certificate for Windows here in Germany was also not very easy years ago, especially for independent developers. It was not just purchasing it in an online store. After purchase i had to proof my identity through a notary agency. Comodo contacted my lawyer/notary and asked for a confirmation that i am a real person. Therefor i had to visit the notary office, show my papers to get authenticated. So i had not only pay for the certificate, but also for the authentication through the lawyer/notary. Thanks god, now Comodo is using public business registers for confirmation and luckily i am listed in one of them now. So the authenticaton process is much faster and without any additonal costs. As a customer btw i really prefer secure software. I know that even with those security achievements software is not 100% secure, but more secure than without any notarization/code signing. - Matthias Rebbe Life Is Too Short For Boring Code > Am 29.03.2021 um 19:01 schrieb Roger Guay via use-livecode : > > Beautifully said, Rick! Especially your point about it being a PITA. > > Thanks! > > >> On Mar 29, 2021, at 9:36 AM, Rick Harrison via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Hi Mark, >> >> Perhaps improving standalone building should be put at >> the top of the priority of things to improve for LiveCode. >> >> I think people are very frustrated that they are having >> great difficulties in building a standalone. A process that >> used to be relatively simple is now way too complex. >> >> Many LC users want to be able to create their application, >> and deploy it quickly to their own computers, or to give >> away to their family members. They are not interested >> in inserting Apple or other corporations into their personal >> programming loop, and a lot of us feel the same way. >> >> No one wants to deal with having to create bundle ids >> or other corporate nonsense. (Option for a unique random >> bundle id generator here?) >> >> I believe users want LC to step up it?s game in dealing >> with these issues so the deployment experience is an >> enjoyable one, and not a PITA. >> >> Successfully addressing this problem helps everyone! >> >> Just my 2 cents for the day. ;-) >> >> Rick >> >> >>> >>> In terms of the general thrust behind this thread - I completely agree that standalone building has become tortuous over the last few years as all platforms add more and more hoops you have to jump through. However, this is probably best done by improving the standalone building process (i.e. making it as easy as possible) rather than anything else. >>> >>> Warmest Regards, >>> >>> Mark. >>> >>> -- >>> Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ >>> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From andrew at midwestcoastmedia.com Mon Mar 29 13:24:33 2021 From: andrew at midwestcoastmedia.com (Andrew at MidWest Coast Media) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 13:24:33 -0400 Subject: mobileStoreMakePurchase not working for iOS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <585345C6-3824-409F-B5F1-72AD6DA1B7D8@midwestcoastmedia.com> I see now that it was stated on 7/16/2014 that this might not work in the Simulator, that was my misunderstanding. My app is able to make the request as I can get ?sendingRequest? as the pState, but then errors out with the ?An unknown error occurred? for the ?error? pState. This happens on test device with development credentials as well as distribution credentials; it?s live now. Everything I?ve read about using sandbox users to test IAP has been an absolute nightmare, so after no luck in the simulator or on my tethered iPhone I just bit the bullet and tried the transaction myself (it was only 99?). The iOS side just throws a generic error back at me but on Google Play the transaction goes through and the purchase is successful. This seems to happen when the StoreKit returns SKErrorCode=0 and seems to be more problematic with Xcode 12+ & iOS 12+. Is there any way to see the full error message returned from Apple to find out where this is failing? Doesn?t seem like there is a mobileStorePurchaseError(pPurchaseID,?verbose?) mode but the LC dictionary isn?t very resource heavy for mobile purchases. ?Andrew Bell > Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 17:59:42 +0300 > From: panagiotis merakos > Subject: Re: mobileStoreMakePurchase not working for iOS > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > Hello Andrew, > > Just to mention that in-app purchases are not supported in the Simulator. > > Kind regards, > Panos > -- > > On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 at 05:29, Andrew at MidWest Coast Media via > use-livecode wrote: > >> I have released my first project with in-app purchases but only to 50% >> platform success: Android works but iOS does not. I?m using the directions >> at >> https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4069/l/186807-how-do-i-implement-in-app-purchases-in-livecode-apple-appstore >> but am getting generic errors. >> >> I had been receiving the dreaded ?Cannot connect to iTunes Store? error, >> but did the test user creation dance a couple times to step past that. >> When trying in the simulator with a real user account or registered >> sandbox user I?m getting a mobileStorePurchaseError of ?UNKNOWN_ERROR" >> When trying on the device (production build from App Store) I?m getting a >> mobileStorePurchaseError of ?An unknown error occurred? >> >> These are all submitted and approved consumables registered in App Store >> Connect. Is there anyway to track down a more descriptive error message? >> Same code is working for Google Play. >> >> Compiled with LiveCode 9.6.2rc3 on macOS 11.0.1 using Xcode 12.1 >> >> ?Andrew Bell >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > ------------------------------ From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Mar 29 13:30:24 2021 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 10:30:24 -0700 Subject: We don't need a Player (was Re: New(?) Idea for Standalones) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7706728f-12b5-d54a-f703-52de4a01be65@fourthworld.com> Trevor DeVore wrote: > On Mon, Mar 29, 2021 at 10:57 AM Richard Gaskin wrote: > >> TL/DR: >> >> We don't need a generic player. >> >> What we need is an updated Standalone Builder, to provide >> more complete tooling and better guidance for building a >> modern standalone. > > > An easy way to extend the standalone building process with plugins is > a necessity IMO as well. Add-ons to the product experience can be a useful temporary workaround for long-time users, but if we step back and look at the gestalt of the user experience they're not a true solution: The problem is tooling and knowledge necessary but not found in the product. Whether the third-parties delivering essential tools are OS vendors or community members, both require knowing where to hunt down the solution, set it up, and use it. Either way it's not in the box, so many won't know where to find it, and most newcomers won't know it even exists. Third-party plugins are ABSOLUTELY FANTASTIC for adding *supplemental capabilities and conveniences* to a product. But they cannot be profitably relied on to provide a core requirement of a product's critical path of use. When the product is a tool for building applications, nothing could be more integral to its mission than building standalones. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From sundown.pacifier at icloud.com Mon Mar 29 13:56:02 2021 From: sundown.pacifier at icloud.com (John Balgenorth) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 10:56:02 -0700 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8656380B-5C85-4641-A4BA-58FC8CADC628@icloud.com> They will probably never take the time to be bothered with complaining by not buying from Apple or Microsoft. It would be easier for them to not buy electricity from the power companies and that won?t happen either. JB > On Mar 29, 2021, at 10:51 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > > ?On 3/29/2021 12:28 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: >> In any case it is not as easy as it use to be and IMO, this door may be closing. > You are 100% right. The door is closing and will eventually be closed unless enough consumers of Apple (and Windows) products complain with their buying power to Apple and Microsoft. > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From lists at mangomultimedia.com Mon Mar 29 13:57:44 2021 From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 12:57:44 -0500 Subject: We don't need a Player (was Re: New(?) Idea for Standalones) In-Reply-To: <7706728f-12b5-d54a-f703-52de4a01be65@fourthworld.com> References: <7706728f-12b5-d54a-f703-52de4a01be65@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Mar 29, 2021 at 12:31 PM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Trevor DeVore wrote: > > > On Mon, Mar 29, 2021 at 10:57 AM Richard Gaskin wrote: > > > >> TL/DR: > >> > >> We don't need a generic player. > >> > >> What we need is an updated Standalone Builder, to provide > >> more complete tooling and better guidance for building a > >> modern standalone. > > > > > > An easy way to extend the standalone building process with plugins is > > a necessity IMO as well. > > Add-ons to the product experience can be a useful temporary workaround > for long-time users, but if we step back and look at the gestalt of the > user experience they're not a true solution. > Do you think that LiveCode should have built in support for all of the various installers such as DropDMG, InnoSetup, WIX, etc.? You either have to support all of them or provide a hook so the developer can extend the process. Either that or require the developer to create their own additional workflow for processing the standalone after the fact. -- Trevor DeVore ScreenSteps www.screensteps.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Mar 29 14:01:06 2021 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 11:01:06 -0700 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: <6C1CC26F-037B-424E-B862-E1A3DC4BBD62@m-r-d.de> References: <6C1CC26F-037B-424E-B862-E1A3DC4BBD62@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <53e66f2e-510f-55ff-1009-6eba2f5bb789@fourthworld.com> matthias_livecode_150811 wrote: > Don't blame Microsoft and Apple I'm not sure anyone here is. Jumping through hoops is painful, of course, but I think the folks here recognize that having their data and devices compromised is even more painful. > And purchasing a code signing certificate for Windows here in Germany > was also not very easy years ago, especially for independent > developers. > It was not just purchasing it in an online store. After purchase i had > to proof my identity through a notary agency. Comodo contacted my > lawyer/notary and asked for a confirmation that i am a real person. > Therefor i had to visit the notary office, show my papers to get > authenticated. So i had not only pay for the certificate, but also > for the authentication through the lawyer/notary. > Thanks god, now Comodo is using public business registers for > confirmation and luckily i am listed in one of them now. So the > authenticaton process is much faster and without any additonal costs. That's a valuable story. It's good to see security taken seriously, and even better to see where the process is tailored over time as the balance between threats and remedies becomes ever more finely tuned to shift the burden to larger stakeholders with the resources to handle it well. Once upon a time SSL certs were expensive and cumbersome to obtain. Now we have projects like Let's Encrypt, which provide strong SSL certs automatically updated not just annually but every 90 days, for free. The change was moving the burden from individual web site owners to bigger players who are also stakeholders, ISPs and ad-supported industry giants who need a safe web to thrive. They have vast resources beyond what indies have to put on the problem, and centralized solutions can be handled by experts with good implementations and fewer errors. I expect over time we'll see initiatives in the app space evolve this way as well, with OS vendors and other bigger stakeholders actively investing in ways to make it ever easier for indy devs to deploy safe software. In a smaller but no less helpful way, Mark Waddingham's comment demonstrates the value of centralizing security process where practical: ...this is probably best done by improving the standalone building process (i.e. making it as easy as possible) rather than anything else. > As a customer btw i really prefer secure software. I know that even > with those security achievements software is not 100% secure, but more > secure than without any notarization/code signing. The listing of Common Vulnerabilities and Exposures (CVEs) at CVEDetails.com is a good reminder of growth in both scope and sophistication of attacks: https://www.cvedetails.com/product/156/Apple-Mac-Os-X.html?vendor_id=49 At first glance, one might see futility in the steady increase of CVEs against macOS growing nearly every year while Apple has made deployment ever more cumbersome. But a brief pause to think about it reveals the deeper truth: imagine how many vulnerabilities would be exploited if OS vendors weren't adding hoops for deployment to jump through. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From jiml at netrin.com Mon Mar 29 14:03:21 2021 From: jiml at netrin.com (Jim Lambert) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 11:03:21 -0700 Subject: mouseenter/mouseleave and pointer tool In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0955E750-4815-436A-9385-98F074E1CDFA@netrin.com> > Klaus wrote: > when the pointer tool is active, "mouseenter" and "mouseleave" > handlers are executed nevertheless!? > > I don't this this is correct behaviour! I agree. When the pointer tool is selected in the IDE one is supposedly in Editing Mode. To have code execute when you simply enter or select an object you wish to edit is counter to the nature of editing, not helpful and, well, plain wrong. Of course, it's been this way for a long and annoying while. Special case drawing apps not withstanding. Jim Lambert From klaus at major-k.de Mon Mar 29 14:07:13 2021 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 20:07:13 +0200 Subject: mouseenter/mouseleave and pointer tool In-Reply-To: <0955E750-4815-436A-9385-98F074E1CDFA@netrin.com> References: <0955E750-4815-436A-9385-98F074E1CDFA@netrin.com> Message-ID: <0DC26A7E-F99E-4F0B-B60E-047C77C91105@major-k.de> Hi all, > Klaus wrote: > when the pointer tool is active, "mouseenter" and "mouseleave" > handlers are executed nevertheless!? > > I don't this this is correct behaviour! reported: Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From craig at starfirelighting.com Mon Mar 29 14:20:42 2021 From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 14:20:42 -0400 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: <2FE10EA9-E251-4111-84B5-279A10CFCEAE@starfirelighting.com> References: <5F43B66A-5D41-4D5A-B818-9AFDCBDD9083@icloud.com> <2FE10EA9-E251-4111-84B5-279A10CFCEAE@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: Roger. For about eight users in my business I distribute standalones for desktop only, both Mac and Windows versions. These are developed on a Mac. Simple to update and make, simple to give away, simple to use. That is the aspect of this thread that I do not understand, perhaps misreading that it is somehow problematic to do what I do without issue. I am certain I simply have this wrong. I do all this in the Community version. I do not sell apps at all, though I own an Indy license just as a way to help LC a little. So I wonder if I am a scofflaw. If everyone was on a Mac, I might have simply distributed updated stacks, and have LC resident on all the other machines. But of course, the fact that most use Windows makes that impossible, and I will not use a Windows machine unless I have to. Anyway, leaving the IDE open is risky. Someone not too long ago wondered why we could not give standalones to friends for use on their phones, that is, what difference does the platform make, if it is only for acquaintances. In mobile, I certainly see how this might be abused. Craig > On Mar 29, 2021, at 9:45 AM, Craig Newman wrote: > > I have been following this thread with interest, and have no idea what anyone is talking about. > > I make and update standalones regularly on my Mac, and distribute them to many Windows and Mac desktop users in my company. All for ?personal? use. > > Somewhere in the middle of all this, I thought that the issue was distributing to mobile, and saw the problem, but then noticed that the issue was distributing to desktop, and became confused > > So though I may be breaking the law, what prevents anyone from doing what i do? > > What am i missing? > > Craig > >> On Mar 29, 2021, at 1:17 AM, John Balgenorth via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Thanks for clarifying that for me! >> >> As far as the license stuff goes on the community version I personally >> think the community is allowed to supersede LiveCode if they feel like >> investing the time. It should not be able to be held back just to make >> sure all of the new features are done by the LiveCode Team. As long >> as it is kept public like the community version was designed to do. >> >> JB >> >>> On Mar 28, 2021, at 10:04 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> ?John et al, >>> >>> To recap: >>> >>> My ultimate goal is to get support for RunRev to provide a LiveCodeLight download that opens stacks but hides or strips the IDE. I can?t believe this would be difficult in any way. >>> >>> In the meantime, I am trying to recreate the old Standalone app method (See Jacquelines? post in this thread) that opens stacks. 2 or more OSs ago this was extremely easy to do, but because of the increasing complexity of Apple requirements (and Windows?) it is now quite difficult and I have yet to succeed at it. Even if it is still possible, I shudder to think what they will do next to further complicate our efforts to simple collaborate and share with family and friends. >>> >>> Thanks to all who are taking an interest. >>> >>> Roger >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Mar 28, 2021, at 9:14 PM, John Balgenorth via use-livecode wrote: >>>> >>>> I was thinking one of the reasons people were saying not to provide a >>>> scaled down version of the development system to do it was because >>>> they were afraid it would interfere with the license. But since you can >>>> do it according to some of you is proof you are allowed to automate >>>> the process and that should not interfere with the user license. >>>> >>>> JB >>>> >>>>>> On Mar 28, 2021, at 9:04 PM, Dev via use-livecode wrote: >>>>> >>>>> ?If it works, the upside is that anyone can do it themselves and coach their family into doing the two step process once on the first time install. >>>>> >>>>> If it doesn?t work, we need to get a real developer to make a real app that jumps through Apple?s hoops. And then the developer has to keep it updated every time Apple makes a change. >>>>> >>>>> I agree this whole thing is a bother, but as other posts have pointed out, ?This is not the good old days and security is not going away? so this whole discussion is trying to find the narrowest point to cross. If the amateurs can do it themselves with a two step magic incantation, then this puts the ball back in their court and allows them into the game with out going through the Apple doorway. >>>>> >>>>> Kelly >>>>> >>>>>> On 28 Mar, 2021, at 9:54 PM, John Balgenorth via use-livecode wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I may have got lost on this subject but if his goal was to make it >>>>>> easy for people to open his app by doing something like using a >>>>>> scaled down version of the development system then this one >>>>>> step of doing it twice is a valid reason for using what he wanted >>>>>> because people do not want to be bothered with things like that. >>>>>> >>>>>> JB >>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mar 28, 2021, at 8:41 PM, scott--- via use-livecode wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ? >>>>>>> I may have described it incorrectly. After re-testing here on OS 11.2.3 I found that it required two tries. Trying to open it the first time meets with failure. But Right clicking and choosing ?Open? the second time gives a second dialog that will allow it to open. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ? >>>>>>> Scott >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mar 28, 2021, at 2:58 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Nope! Right clicking on a standalone I?m trying to share with my wife on her iMac w OS 11.2 results in this menu: Open Attachment - Quick Look Attachment - Save Attachment?. - Save to Downloads Folder - Share - Copy - Speech >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Then, clicking on the ?Open Attachment? menu item results in the same response I reported earlier: a simple screen with this message: You do not have permission to open the application ?StackOmatic?. ?Contact your computer or network administrator for assistance? with a simple ?OK? button. Dead end as before! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Further, at Kelly's suggestion to try and adjust settings in the Security and Privacy System Preferences to downgrade standards to allow a one time opening, I found nothing of the sort. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> So at this point, I think Kelly?s idea of someone with Apple credentials building a certified standalone that runs stacks is the only short term solution. If it helps, I and probably others, would be willing to pay a reasonable fee for such gem. Otherwise, I and anyone else wanting to share stacks, will have to jump through the increasingly ridiculous hoops that Apple (and Windows?) place before us. OTH?. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Ultimately, I really think that a LiveCodeLight app that runs stacks without the IDE would be the best way to go to share stacks with friends, family and colleagues. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Roger >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Mar 28, 2021, at 12:24 AM, scott--- via use-livecode wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Kelly is correct. While holding down the control key, click and hold (or right click) to get an additional menu allowing you to choose to open the app. >>>>>>>>> ? >>>>>>>>> Scott >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Mar 29 14:11:14 2021 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 11:11:14 -0700 Subject: We don't need a Player (was Re: New(?) Idea for Standalones) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Trevor DeVore wrote: > On Mon, Mar 29, 2021 at 12:31 PM Richard Gaskin wrote: >> Add-ons to the product experience can be a useful temporary >> workaround for long-time users, but if we step back and look >> at the gestalt of the user experience they're not a true solution. >> > > Do you think that LiveCode should have built in support for all of > the various installers such as DropDMG, InnoSetup, WIX, etc.? "All" is the biggest possible number, potentially infinite. So logically, of course the only answer is "no". DMGs are native to the OS, as is the AppleScript used to automate making them look attractive. LC has a reasonably nice Windows installer framework, which we all use every time we install LC. I don't think anyone here is expecting LC or any other tool vendor to provide all possible solutions to a given problem. One suitable solution in the box is all that's needed, with the option for folks to turn it off if they prefer using any other of the infinite variety of all possible solutions. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Mar 29 14:25:49 2021 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 11:25:49 -0700 Subject: mouseenter/mouseleave and pointer tool In-Reply-To: <0955E750-4815-436A-9385-98F074E1CDFA@netrin.com> References: <0955E750-4815-436A-9385-98F074E1CDFA@netrin.com> Message-ID: <010505aa-4ea2-58df-7df0-f9633725f32c@fourthworld.com> Jim Lambert wrote: >> Klaus wrote: >> when the pointer tool is active, "mouseenter" and "mouseleave" >> handlers are executed nevertheless!? >> >> I don't this this is correct behaviour! > > I agree. > When the pointer tool is selected in the IDE one is supposedly in > Editing Mode. This is a philosophical point in LC, created by a change in how tool modes are presented. Throughout all of xTalk history, and the history of the LC engine prior to its acquisition in 2003, tool modes have always been presented as options available to scripters like any other part of the language, changeable with the "choose" command. Most xTalk IDEs have lacked the confidence in their language to also build their IDE in their own language, so this was less of an issue for HC, OMO, Plus, and others. But MetaCard, SuperCard, Gain Momentum provided runtime editing of the sort we have with LiveCode. While each had subtly different ways of guiding the user to appreciate the differences in tool modes, their audiences had less confusion, because they presented tool modes as tool modes (language elements like any other available for us all to use), rather than attempting to present a more consumer-app experience in which the pointer tool is somehow not something a scripter could be expected to ever want to use. LC documents the "choose" command, but is designed in a way that attempts to be both an xTalk dev environment and a consumer app, resulting in an experience that lends many users to think of the pointer tool as somehow not available among the "choose" options. One of the most powerful moments of my scripting life was when I launched SuperCard and was invited to explore one of the sample apps that came with it, SampleDraw. It was basically MacDraw, a decent drawing app with vector graphics, document handling, and all that, but SampleDraw even more capable, with features like polygon morphing, and the whole thing written in xTalk. That moment of seeing an app I'd known well reimplemented more powerfully in a scripting language I enjoyed is what compelled me to spend so many years enjoying xTalks. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From lists at mangomultimedia.com Mon Mar 29 15:17:42 2021 From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 14:17:42 -0500 Subject: We don't need a Player (was Re: New(?) Idea for Standalones) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Mar 29, 2021 at 1:24 PM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Trevor DeVore wrote: > > > On Mon, Mar 29, 2021 at 12:31 PM Richard Gaskin wrote: > >> Add-ons to the product experience can be a useful temporary > >> workaround for long-time users, but if we step back and look > >> at the gestalt of the user experience they're not a true solution. > >> > > > > Do you think that LiveCode should have built in support for all of > > the various installers such as DropDMG, InnoSetup, WIX, etc.? > > "All" is the biggest possible number, potentially infinite. So > logically, of course the only answer is "no". > And that is why I like hooks into the standalone building process :-) Provide the baseline solution but make it extensible so that developers who need more can integrate whatever they need into building a standalone. The less manual steps the better. -- Trevor DeVore ScreenSteps www.screensteps.com From paul at researchware.com Mon Mar 29 15:27:27 2021 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 15:27:27 -0400 Subject: mouseenter/mouseleave and pointer tool In-Reply-To: <0DC26A7E-F99E-4F0B-B60E-047C77C91105@major-k.de> References: <0955E750-4815-436A-9385-98F074E1CDFA@netrin.com> <0DC26A7E-F99E-4F0B-B60E-047C77C91105@major-k.de> Message-ID: <5bbd1e9f-4a2d-03b7-4e2a-655c301b4ef5@researchware.com> This is not a bug, but a feature. Our app contains a specialized network drawing tool and we switch to the pointer tool to allow the user to interact with drawn objects (buttons and line graphics connecting the buttons). We use mouseEnter and mouseLeave to update information about the object the person is hovering over as they are in drawing mode. The POINTER tool is used to mouse over and select objects in the drawing window. On 3/29/2021 2:07 PM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > Hi all, > >> Klaus wrote: >> when the pointer tool is active, "mouseenter" and "mouseleave" >> handlers are executed nevertheless!? >> >> I don't this this is correct behaviour! > reported: > > > Best > > Klaus > > -- > Klaus Major > https://www.major-k.de > https://www.major-k.de/bass > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From alex at tweedly.net Mon Mar 29 15:36:57 2021 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 20:36:57 +0100 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: References: <5F43B66A-5D41-4D5A-B818-9AFDCBDD9083@icloud.com> <2FE10EA9-E251-4111-84B5-279A10CFCEAE@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: <38950866-f9bb-0584-5148-8ff54cec9d4e@tweedly.net> On 29/03/2021 19:20, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: > Roger. > > For about eight users in my business I distribute standalones for desktop only, both Mac and Windows versions. These are developed on a Mac. Simple to update and make, simple to give away, simple to use. > > That is the aspect of this thread that I do not understand, perhaps misreading that it is somehow problematic to do what I do without issue. I am certain I simply have this wrong. Craig, I think this all depends on your users, and which version(s) of MacOS/Windows they are using. Both OSes require *either* signed apps, or that the user give permission to run unsigned apps (either doing that for each app, or once in the system settings). In the more recent versions (certainly of MacOS), the steps needed to do this have become increasingly well hidden, and the warning messages have become increasingly scary. If you (i.e. your users) have been used to seeing these, and taking the steps around the hurdles, they probably do so naturally and without worrying (or, they've already down-tuned the protection in the settings and so no longer see any warnings for new apps). In my case, the Macs I own are, like me, elderly, and hence restricted to MacOS 10.13 or older - and I barely notice; occasionally I have to right-click on an app and agree to it running. From Roger's description, this is much more intrusive in newer MacOS, and finding your way to the correct place to give that permission is non-trivial. However, there is no doubt that there is some way to allow unsigned apps to run on all current and foreseeable versions of the desktop OSes, so if you have a fairly restricted audience, you can simply ignore the problems addressed in this thread and focus on getting the permissions properly changed for them. Alex. From irog at mac.com Mon Mar 29 15:43:37 2021 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 12:43:37 -0700 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: References: <5F43B66A-5D41-4D5A-B818-9AFDCBDD9083@icloud.com> <2FE10EA9-E251-4111-84B5-279A10CFCEAE@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: <1D44F710-74D2-47B1-8517-8D5AA079668E@mac.com> Craig. You and I are very much in the same boat as far as how we use LiveCode. The problem is not constructing the standalones. LiveCode is superb in this regard. The problem is distributing Apple unapproved standalones. It seems I can no longer do that anymore as I used to. The problem is that opening an unapproved standalone on an other computer other than one?s own is difficult if not impossible for OS 11.2. Other?s in this thread have offered that it still can be done albeit with a more convoluted process, and I am still trying to figure this out. e.g if I send a standalone to my wife (called StackOmatic) to share, we inevitably end up with the "You do not have permission to open the application ?StackOmatic?. ?Contact your computer or network administrator for assistance? with a simple ?OK? button. I can?t seem to replicate the process that others have suggested to get to the ?Open Anyway? button. Roger > On Mar 29, 2021, at 11:20 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: > > For about eight users in my business I distribute standalones for desktop only, both Mac and Windows versions. These are developed on a Mac. Simple to update and make, simple to give away, simple to use. > > That is the aspect of this thread that I do not understand, perhaps misreading that it is somehow problematic to do what I do without issue. I am certain I simply have this wrong. > > I do all this in the Community version. I do not sell apps at all, though I own an Indy license just as a way to help LC a little. So I wonder if I am a scofflaw. If everyone was on a Mac, I might have simply distributed updated stacks, and have LC resident on all the other machines. But of course, the fact that most use Windows makes that impossible, and I will not use a Windows machine unless I have to. Anyway, leaving the IDE open is risky. From paul at researchware.com Mon Mar 29 15:54:47 2021 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 15:54:47 -0400 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: <38950866-f9bb-0584-5148-8ff54cec9d4e@tweedly.net> References: <5F43B66A-5D41-4D5A-B818-9AFDCBDD9083@icloud.com> <2FE10EA9-E251-4111-84B5-279A10CFCEAE@starfirelighting.com> <38950866-f9bb-0584-5148-8ff54cec9d4e@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <10569678-f639-b5d1-40bc-b0d8f0c548a0@researchware.com> On 3/29/2021 3:36 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote: > there is some way to allow unsigned apps to run on all current and > foreseeable versions of the desktop OSes I think your assumption that you will be able - even via some horribly convoluted series of steps - to run unsigned and unnotarized apps on FUTURE versions of macOS is probably in error. From Apple's actions and statements, they very much are moving to a similar sandboxed, highly vetted, approved by Apple model for macOS as exists for iOS apps. From alex at tweedly.net Mon Mar 29 16:00:35 2021 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 21:00:35 +0100 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: <1D44F710-74D2-47B1-8517-8D5AA079668E@mac.com> References: <5F43B66A-5D41-4D5A-B818-9AFDCBDD9083@icloud.com> <2FE10EA9-E251-4111-84B5-279A10CFCEAE@starfirelighting.com> <1D44F710-74D2-47B1-8517-8D5AA079668E@mac.com> Message-ID: <7b209c72-6763-8575-b82b-58a58e5d8719@tweedly.net> Roger, this is frustrating, isn't it !! If I were you, I'd send an email to the list saying (something along the lines of ....) > I want to get to the bottom of this. I'm going to host a Zoom call on > my wife's Mac at where I will share my > screen so you can all see what I'm doing, and I'll then accept > suggestions of what to do/try.? Here's the key/invite ... > All welcome !! > I'll do my best to attend - but since I don't own a Mac that can run anything later than 10.13 I suspect I'll be a spectator, not a contributor. Alex. On 29/03/2021 20:43, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: > Craig. > > You and I are very much in the same boat as far as how we use LiveCode. > > The problem is not constructing the standalones. LiveCode is superb in this regard. The problem is distributing Apple unapproved standalones. It seems I can no longer do that anymore as I used to. The problem is that opening an unapproved standalone on an other computer other than one?s own is difficult if not impossible for OS 11.2. Other?s in this thread have offered that it still can be done albeit with a more convoluted process, and I am still trying to figure this out. e.g if I send a standalone to my wife (called StackOmatic) to share, we inevitably end up with the "You do not have permission to open the application ?StackOmatic?. ?Contact your computer or network administrator for assistance? with a simple ?OK? button. I can?t seem to replicate the process that others have suggested to get to the ?Open Anyway? button. > > Roger > >> On Mar 29, 2021, at 11:20 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: >> >> For about eight users in my business I distribute standalones for desktop only, both Mac and Windows versions. These are developed on a Mac. Simple to update and make, simple to give away, simple to use. >> >> That is the aspect of this thread that I do not understand, perhaps misreading that it is somehow problematic to do what I do without issue. I am certain I simply have this wrong. >> >> I do all this in the Community version. I do not sell apps at all, though I own an Indy license just as a way to help LC a little. So I wonder if I am a scofflaw. If everyone was on a Mac, I might have simply distributed updated stacks, and have LC resident on all the other machines. But of course, the fact that most use Windows makes that impossible, and I will not use a Windows machine unless I have to. Anyway, leaving the IDE open is risky. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From irog at mac.com Mon Mar 29 16:04:56 2021 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 13:04:56 -0700 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: <10569678-f639-b5d1-40bc-b0d8f0c548a0@researchware.com> References: <5F43B66A-5D41-4D5A-B818-9AFDCBDD9083@icloud.com> <2FE10EA9-E251-4111-84B5-279A10CFCEAE@starfirelighting.com> <38950866-f9bb-0584-5148-8ff54cec9d4e@tweedly.net> <10569678-f639-b5d1-40bc-b0d8f0c548a0@researchware.com> Message-ID: <1CD2BDD2-D0D7-4EDD-9C61-316DB41AC15B@mac.com> I?m sure you?re right about this. And, If this be the case, I would ask for the work-around approach . . . a LiveCodeLight App downloadable from RunRev (or other approved source) that runs stacks but hides or strips the IDE. Roger > On Mar 29, 2021, at 12:54 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > > I think your assumption that you will be able - even via some horribly convoluted series of steps - to run unsigned and unnotarized apps on FUTURE versions of macOS is probably in error. From Apple's actions and statements, they very much are moving to a similar sandboxed, highly vetted, approved by Apple model for macOS as exists for iOS apps. From irog at mac.com Mon Mar 29 16:23:03 2021 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 13:23:03 -0700 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: <7b209c72-6763-8575-b82b-58a58e5d8719@tweedly.net> References: <5F43B66A-5D41-4D5A-B818-9AFDCBDD9083@icloud.com> <2FE10EA9-E251-4111-84B5-279A10CFCEAE@starfirelighting.com> <1D44F710-74D2-47B1-8517-8D5AA079668E@mac.com> <7b209c72-6763-8575-b82b-58a58e5d8719@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <08D772F4-7023-48BB-8020-503AB1426735@mac.com> I have to admit I haven?t had a lot of time to experiment yet on my wife?s computer as I've been busy here trying to communicate my problem. Also, my wife?s computer is busy helping her work from home, not to mention, her style is to have numerous windows open all the time. Drives me nuts! I wish I could think of an unapproved Mac app I could download to my own machine to play with. :-) Roger > On Mar 29, 2021, at 1:00 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote: > > Roger, > > this is frustrating, isn't it !! > > If I were you, I'd send an email to the list saying (something along the lines of ....) > >> I want to get to the bottom of this. I'm going to host a Zoom call on my wife's Mac at where I will share my screen so you can all see what I'm doing, and I'll then accept suggestions of what to do/try. Here's the key/invite ... >> All welcome !! >> > I'll do my best to attend - but since I don't own a Mac that can run anything later than 10.13 I suspect I'll be a spectator, not a contributor. > > Alex. From alex at tweedly.net Mon Mar 29 16:36:36 2021 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 21:36:36 +0100 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: <08D772F4-7023-48BB-8020-503AB1426735@mac.com> References: <5F43B66A-5D41-4D5A-B818-9AFDCBDD9083@icloud.com> <2FE10EA9-E251-4111-84B5-279A10CFCEAE@starfirelighting.com> <1D44F710-74D2-47B1-8517-8D5AA079668E@mac.com> <7b209c72-6763-8575-b82b-58a58e5d8719@tweedly.net> <08D772F4-7023-48BB-8020-503AB1426735@mac.com> Message-ID: <28afa73a-6d35-6ded-1779-f1432f815685@tweedly.net> On 29/03/2021 21:23, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: > I have to admit I haven?t had a lot of time to experiment yet on my wife?s computer as I've been busy here trying to communicate my problem. Also, my wife?s computer is busy helping her work from home, not to mention, her style is to have numerous windows open all the time. Drives me nuts! > > I wish I could think of an unapproved Mac app I could download to my own machine to play with. https://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/livecode/downloads/StackRunner.htm and download something suitable. This? is the old (and I think no longer functioning) stackRunner - but although it doesn't appear to work properly (it is *very* old) it did come up and ask me to approve it. Alex. From alex at tweedly.net Mon Mar 29 16:45:41 2021 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 21:45:41 +0100 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: <10569678-f639-b5d1-40bc-b0d8f0c548a0@researchware.com> References: <5F43B66A-5D41-4D5A-B818-9AFDCBDD9083@icloud.com> <2FE10EA9-E251-4111-84B5-279A10CFCEAE@starfirelighting.com> <38950866-f9bb-0584-5148-8ff54cec9d4e@tweedly.net> <10569678-f639-b5d1-40bc-b0d8f0c548a0@researchware.com> Message-ID: <77add362-bda6-1c47-fc84-40ed4086b506@tweedly.net> On 29/03/2021 20:54, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > On 3/29/2021 3:36 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote: >> there is some way to allow unsigned apps to run on all current and >> foreseeable versions of the desktop OSes > > I think your assumption that you will be able - even via some horribly > convoluted series of steps - to run unsigned and unnotarized apps on > FUTURE versions of macOS is probably in error. From Apple's actions > and statements, they very much are moving to a similar sandboxed, > highly vetted, approved by Apple model for macOS as exists for iOS apps. > It's only an assumption for "the foreseeable versions". I do agree with you that in the long term this will, or might, become either impossible or so burdensome it's not worth it. But at that point, we don't know what will be possible.? MacOS may by then be so tied up that it has become equivalent to iOS. The disappointing part of this thread, for me, was how quickly those in the know convinced me there was no chance of a 'runner' app for mobile (in particular, iOS). I think by the time it becomes infeasible to circumvent the protections on MacOS, it will also be infeasible to produce a signed 'general runner' app for it. Alex. From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Mar 29 16:55:14 2021 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 13:55:14 -0700 Subject: We don't need a Player (was Re: New(?) Idea for Standalones) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7c5456fe-7062-74fb-216b-c1df33896e05@fourthworld.com> Trevor DeVore wrote: > On Mon, Mar 29, 2021 at 1:24 PM Richard Gaskin wrote: > >> Trevor DeVore wrote: >> >> > On Mon, Mar 29, 2021 at 12:31 PM Richard Gaskin wrote: >> >> Add-ons to the product experience can be a useful temporary >> >> workaround for long-time users, but if we step back and look >> >> at the gestalt of the user experience they're not a true >> >> solution. >> >> >> > >> > Do you think that LiveCode should have built in support for all of >> > the various installers such as DropDMG, InnoSetup, WIX, etc.? >> >> "All" is the biggest possible number, potentially infinite. So >> logically, of course the only answer is "no". > > And that is why I like hooks into the standalone building process :-) > > Provide the baseline solution but make it extensible so that > developers who need more can integrate whatever they need into > building a standalone. The less manual steps the better. #GMTA Here's the bottom of the post you were replying to: One suitable solution in the box is all that's needed, with the option for folks to turn it off if they prefer using any other of the infinite variety of all possible solutions. So yeah, I don't much mind whether we call them "hooks" or "options" or even "doilies" as long as it supports the core need right out of the box, without penalizing deeply-experienced professionals with specific tool preferences. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From irog at mac.com Mon Mar 29 17:11:58 2021 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 14:11:58 -0700 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: <28afa73a-6d35-6ded-1779-f1432f815685@tweedly.net> References: <5F43B66A-5D41-4D5A-B818-9AFDCBDD9083@icloud.com> <2FE10EA9-E251-4111-84B5-279A10CFCEAE@starfirelighting.com> <1D44F710-74D2-47B1-8517-8D5AA079668E@mac.com> <7b209c72-6763-8575-b82b-58a58e5d8719@tweedly.net> <08D772F4-7023-48BB-8020-503AB1426735@mac.com> <28afa73a-6d35-6ded-1779-f1432f815685@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <1638D0EB-BDE0-4F54-BB16-940B195C0825@mac.com> Thanks, Alex. Unfortunately it comes up with the ?No Entry? sign on this machine. Roger > On Mar 29, 2021, at 1:36 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote: > > > On 29/03/2021 21:23, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: >> I have to admit I haven?t had a lot of time to experiment yet on my wife?s computer as I've been busy here trying to communicate my problem. Also, my wife?s computer is busy helping her work from home, not to mention, her style is to have numerous windows open all the time. Drives me nuts! >> >> I wish I could think of an unapproved Mac app I could download to my own machine to play with. > > https://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/livecode/downloads/StackRunner.htm and download something suitable. > > This is the old (and I think no longer functioning) stackRunner - but although it doesn't appear to work properly (it is *very* old) it did come up and ask me to approve it. From lists at mangomultimedia.com Mon Mar 29 17:24:15 2021 From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 16:24:15 -0500 Subject: We don't need a Player (was Re: New(?) Idea for Standalones) In-Reply-To: <7c5456fe-7062-74fb-216b-c1df33896e05@fourthworld.com> References: <7c5456fe-7062-74fb-216b-c1df33896e05@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Mar 29, 2021 at 3:56 PM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > Here's the bottom of the post you were replying to: > > One suitable solution in the box is all that's needed, > with the option for folks to turn it off if they prefer > using any other of the infinite variety of all possible > solutions. > > > So yeah, I don't much mind whether we call them "hooks" or "options" or > even "doilies" as long as it supports the core need right out of the > box, without penalizing deeply-experienced professionals with specific > tool preferences. > We agree that LiveCode should include a sensible baseline for building a standalone. We also agree that they shouldn't try to write solutions for all possible ways that someone may need to distribute a standalone. My 2 cents is that LiveCode should provide a way for 3rd parties to expand on what happens when a standalone is being built. This is more than just turning off an option. Turning off an option would introduce an absence of behavior. I'm suggesting the addition of behavior that can occur during key points of the standalone building process. Perhaps all use cases can adequately be handled with the messages that are already sent once when a standalone builder finishes (e.g. savingStandalone and standaloneSaved). But, perhaps the standalone building process would be better served with additional, more granular callbacks, and maybe those callbacks are sent to a target other than the stack being saved. That is what I would like to be considered when modernizing the Standalone Builder. -- Trevor DeVore ScreenSteps www.screensteps.com From derek-lcl at speedbump.io Mon Mar 29 17:31:19 2021 From: derek-lcl at speedbump.io (Derek Bump) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 16:31:19 -0500 Subject: Help with androidStartAudioPlayingInBackground() In-Reply-To: <9db956f1-e06e-00b3-2971-2897ed21dd5d@hyperactivesw.com> References: <819a847b-f6e3-e424-2116-773b02f1ee13@speedbump.io> <9db956f1-e06e-00b3-2971-2897ed21dd5d@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <65a31f2e-2528-5e64-b1d5-0818162b1522@speedbump.io> That did the trick, thank you. On 3/28/21 2:08 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > I've seen similar issues when trying to read other file types from the > resources folder in an Android standalone. Try copying the file to > specialFolderPath("documents") and play it from there. It's likely a > permissions problem that I wish didn't exist. > > On 3/28/21 1:24 PM, Derek Bump via use-livecode wrote: >> Hello Everyone, >> >> I was wondering if anyone has insight into the usage of >> "androidStartAudioPlayingInBackground()", or can confirm that it works? >> >> I setup a test stack that attempts to play a public domain MP3 using >> the following script but nothing plays. I receive nothing from the >> function, and I'm getting the following in logcat: LiveCode: JNI >> exception thrown when calling native method >> >> on mouseUp >> ??? local tFile >> ??? put specialFolderPath("engine") & "/" & "spring_song.mp3" into tFile >> ??? if there is not a file tFile then >> ?????? answer "File not found:" && tFile >> ??? end if >> ??? put androidStartAudioPlayingInBackground(tFile) into card field >> "result" >> ??? -- logcat: LiveCode: JNI exception thrown when calling native method >> end mouseUp >> >> I've tested this build using Community 9.6.2 (rc3) and 9.0.5, on an >> Android 9.0 Virtual Device and a Android 9.0 phone. Same result >> across the board, nothing plays. >> >> I did test and confirm the ability to play the audio file with >> "mobilePlaySoundOnChannel", but I need background playback for my >> project to work. Also, I searched the LiveCode Quality Control site >> for existing bugs (no results) and searched the forum a bit. >> >> Does anyone have any ideas? Here is my test stack if you're willing >> to give it a shot on your end: >> https://www.speedbump.io/shared/backgroundPlayTest.minimal.zip >> >> Thank you in advance, >> >> Derek Bump >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Mar 29 17:34:34 2021 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 14:34:34 -0700 Subject: We don't need a Player (was Re: New(?) Idea for Standalones) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40d11896-11c9-dbe4-47eb-8905893a4d69@fourthworld.com> Trevor DeVore wrote: > We agree that LiveCode should include a sensible baseline for building > a standalone. We also agree that they shouldn't try to write solutions > for all possible ways that someone may need to distribute a > standalone. My 2 cents is that LiveCode should provide a way for 3rd > parties to expand on what happens when a standalone is being built. > This is more than just turning off an option. Turning off an option > would introduce an absence of behavior. I'm suggesting the addition of > behavior that can occur during key points of the standalone building > process. Yeah, in my effort to try to minimize my TL/DRs I didn't include a detailed specification, using colloquialism where more precision may have been useful. I'm assuming they'd do something similar to what we have now with the pre- and post-build messages. When we consider those, the Plugins subsystem, pubsub, and the vast range of other IDE hooks, I feel pretty confident that they wouldn't suddenly change direction and make a locked-down hookless solution on this one. > Perhaps all use cases can adequately be handled with the messages that > are already sent once when a standalone builder finishes (e.g. > savingStandalone and standaloneSaved). > > But, perhaps the standalone building process would be better served > with additional, more granular callbacks, and maybe those callbacks > are sent to a target other than the stack being saved. That is what > I would like to be considered when modernizing the Standalone Builder. Like that. I think we're all on the same page here. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Mar 29 17:48:10 2021 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 16:48:10 -0500 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: References: <5F43B66A-5D41-4D5A-B818-9AFDCBDD9083@icloud.com> <2FE10EA9-E251-4111-84B5-279A10CFCEAE@starfirelighting.com> Message-ID: On 3/29/21 1:20 PM, Craig Newman via use-livecode wrote: > For about eight users in my business I distribute standalones for desktop only, both Mac and Windows versions. These are developed on a Mac. Simple to update and make, simple to give away, simple to use. > > That is the aspect of this thread that I do not understand, perhaps misreading that it is somehow problematic to do what I do without issue. I am certain I simply have this wrong. If your Mac users are on Big Sur they'll have the problem. If they're on Catalina they might have the problem. If they're on Mojave, not so much. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From lists at mangomultimedia.com Mon Mar 29 17:49:02 2021 From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 16:49:02 -0500 Subject: We don't need a Player (was Re: New(?) Idea for Standalones) In-Reply-To: <40d11896-11c9-dbe4-47eb-8905893a4d69@fourthworld.com> References: <40d11896-11c9-dbe4-47eb-8905893a4d69@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Mar 29, 2021 at 4:35 PM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I think we're all on the same page here. > :thumbs_up -- Trevor DeVore ScreenSteps www.screensteps.com From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au Mon Mar 29 18:20:42 2021 From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2021 09:20:42 +1100 Subject: Resources folder on mac, and the good old days In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <71C370F3-9A3E-478D-9B10-1B74156ACA69@optusnet.com.au> > On 30 Mar 2021, at 12:44 am, use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com wrote: > > Unfortunately this has never been true on macOS X. > > The Resources folder (which is in the macOS app bundle) should be > treated as read-only? Mark Waddingham chides me for saying it is OK to write to the Resources folder in the app bundle on a Mac. Mark is, as ever absolutely correct. The correct place for application support files is the Library/Applications Support folder, and this has been the AppleGuideline for a very long time (although I am not quite so sure about that *always* being the case..) I was wrong, naughty, and I promise? Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. I strongly advise against this awful filthy and degrading practice. Except m?lud (he said in a very small voice), may I offer some admittedly post-hoc and flimsy excuses. 1. The app in which I do this originates from the days before the Application Support folder existed (I am pretty sure) and has grown like Topsy ever since. It worked then, it still works now. With one big caveat: this is ad hoc software, distributed to a small group of users (Colin: by all the usual methods - server, email, DropBox? they all work to deliver a working app without my having to renew my lapsed Apple Developer registration.) If I were to commercialise the app and so notarise it, I would expect writing to the Resources folder *not* to work, probably notarising keeps a checksum of the whole app bundle not just the executable. Maybe this distinction between ad hoc and notarised software is part of the confusion of this very confused thread, to which I have regrettably added more confusion. 2. It is a great convenience to my Mac users to be able to move their copy of the app to another machine, or give it to a friend, without having to worry about finding and transferring auxiliary files (unlike my linux users, who I must advise to keep everything together in one directory). 3. There is no need for Installer code, or more problematic, and with a whiff of sulphur to sensitive old-hand Mac user noses, an Uninstaller. Again if I were to commercialise the app, these would come with the territory of license files etc. 4. If my user wants to get at the auxiliary files, it is easy enough to explain the arcane process of opening up the Contents of the bundle. Explaining how to access the Library is only slightly more arcane, but I really don?t want the uninitiated venturing into that dark scary and very dangerous place . So, readers, don?t do it. But keep it to yourself if you do. And it probably won?t work in MacOS 17.6. Finally on the problem of opening unsafe/unnotarised apps in recent MacOS, I am afraid the discussion here has clearly only increased the confusion of the original forum user. Surely best to refer to the definitive source, the Apple Support documents which you can get by googling ?How to open an unsafe app in Big Sur? (or Catalina, or Mojave). The instructions from Apple are clear and straightforward, unlike some tech forums which start off by talking about using the terminal to turn off Gatekeeper. Neville From alex at tweedly.net Mon Mar 29 18:29:55 2021 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 23:29:55 +0100 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: <1638D0EB-BDE0-4F54-BB16-940B195C0825@mac.com> References: <5F43B66A-5D41-4D5A-B818-9AFDCBDD9083@icloud.com> <2FE10EA9-E251-4111-84B5-279A10CFCEAE@starfirelighting.com> <1D44F710-74D2-47B1-8517-8D5AA079668E@mac.com> <7b209c72-6763-8575-b82b-58a58e5d8719@tweedly.net> <08D772F4-7023-48BB-8020-503AB1426735@mac.com> <28afa73a-6d35-6ded-1779-f1432f815685@tweedly.net> <1638D0EB-BDE0-4F54-BB16-940B195C0825@mac.com> Message-ID: <80f8ff83-aa57-ebcf-c92f-59c6a7bf28ff@tweedly.net> On 29/03/2021 22:11, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: > Thanks, Alex. Unfortunately it comes up with the ?No Entry? sign on this machine. > > Roger I'm not exactly sure what message this is, or when it happens. But this sounds like "Fortunately, ..." because I think it means you have an app that hits a brickwall of permission on your own machine - so we can look at it in more detail without bothering your wife's many multiple windows. It's hard to describe these things in words - hence my suggestion of a Zoom call where you can screen-share and let others watch (and suggest) while you try it. If you want to try that with just me, please do (I'm unavailable for the next hour, but free from approx 00:30 - 01:30 UK time), or tomorrow almost any time, given some notice). Or contact me off-list and we'll find a time. Or suggest a time and someone else might be able to join in and help. There are lots of motivated people wanting to help - or to find out what they're going to need to tell their own users when those users upgrade to a later MacOS. :-) Alex. From scott at elementarysoftware.com Mon Mar 29 18:33:08 2021 From: scott at elementarysoftware.com (scott at elementarysoftware.com) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 15:33:08 -0700 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones Message-ID: Hello Roger, I made a standalone from an empty stack (and one button that does nothing.) It is 64 bit Mac. It is zipped. It isn?t in a DMG or any sort of installer. It is NOT code signed. I have been using this app to test how opening non-signed Mac Apps work. After (finally) opening the app I can throw it away and double click the zipped original to get another app that hasn?t been approved if I want to try the process again. You can find this app here: http://traditionaltaekwondo.org/test/Testeroni.app.zip -- Scott Morrow Elementary Software (Now with 20% less chalk dust!) web https://elementarysoftware.com/ email scott at elementarysoftware.com booth 1-360-734-4701 mobile 360-920-0715 ------------------------------------------------------ From scott at elementarysoftware.com Mon Mar 29 18:36:12 2021 From: scott at elementarysoftware.com (scott at elementarysoftware.com) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 15:36:12 -0700 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Oops, meant to send that off-list. ? Scott > On Mar 29, 2021, at 3:33 PM, scott--- via use-livecode wrote: > > Hello Roger, > > I made a standalone from an empty stack (and one button that does nothing.) It is 64 bit Mac. It is zipped. It isn?t in a DMG or any sort of installer. It is NOT code signed. I have been using this app to test how opening non-signed Mac Apps work. After (finally) opening the app I can throw it away and double click the zipped original to get another app that hasn?t been approved if I want to try the process again. > > You can find this app here: > > http://traditionaltaekwondo.org/test/Testeroni.app.zip > > > -- > Scott Morrow > > Elementary Software > (Now with 20% less chalk dust!) > web https://elementarysoftware.com/ > email scott at elementarysoftware.com > booth 1-360-734-4701 > mobile 360-920-0715 > ------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From scott at elementarysoftware.com Mon Mar 29 18:39:57 2021 From: scott at elementarysoftware.com (scott at elementarysoftware.com) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 15:39:57 -0700 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: <80f8ff83-aa57-ebcf-c92f-59c6a7bf28ff@tweedly.net> References: <5F43B66A-5D41-4D5A-B818-9AFDCBDD9083@icloud.com> <2FE10EA9-E251-4111-84B5-279A10CFCEAE@starfirelighting.com> <1D44F710-74D2-47B1-8517-8D5AA079668E@mac.com> <7b209c72-6763-8575-b82b-58a58e5d8719@tweedly.net> <08D772F4-7023-48BB-8020-503AB1426735@mac.com> <28afa73a-6d35-6ded-1779-f1432f815685@tweedly.net> <1638D0EB-BDE0-4F54-BB16-940B195C0825@mac.com> <80f8ff83-aa57-ebcf-c92f-59c6a7bf28ff@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <55D3DE87-82B5-4613-BB82-312B12A3B50E@elementarysoftware.com> That symbol probably means it was compiled to run on an older (Motorola ?) processor? similar to what happens if you have a 32 bit app on Big Sur. ? Scott > On Mar 29, 2021, at 3:29 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote: > > > On 29/03/2021 22:11, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: >> Thanks, Alex. Unfortunately it comes up with the ?No Entry? sign on this machine. >> >> Roger > > I'm not exactly sure what message this is, or when it happens. But this sounds like "Fortunately, ..." because I think it means you have an app that hits a brickwall of permission on your own machine - so we can look at it in more detail without bothering your wife's many multiple windows. > > It's hard to describe these things in words - hence my suggestion of a Zoom call where you can screen-share and let others watch (and suggest) while you try it. If you want to try that with just me, please do (I'm unavailable for the next hour, but free from approx 00:30 - 01:30 UK time), or tomorrow almost any time, given some notice). > Or contact me off-list and we'll find a time. > Or suggest a time and someone else might be able to join in and help. > > There are lots of motivated people wanting to help - or to find out what they're going to need to tell their own users when those users upgrade to a later MacOS. :-) > > Alex. > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Mon Mar 29 19:06:12 2021 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2021 01:06:12 +0200 Subject: How to get the path to the 'My Livecode' or the plugins folder? Message-ID: Dear all, is there a way to get the path to the 'My Livecode' or the 'Plugins' folder? Searched now for more than 40 minutes and did not find anything about it? Is there maybe a hidden variable / property available for this? Regards Matthias - Matthias Rebbe Life Is Too Short For Boring Code From irog at mac.com Mon Mar 29 19:16:48 2021 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 16:16:48 -0700 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4FDA2809-1C10-4512-B4ED-151615466623@mac.com> Great Scott! (How often do you hear that?) This works on second attempt but not the first. I verified this by trashing the first unzipped app and unzipping a second as you suggest. Here are the details: On first right-click - Open, I got ?"Testeroni? can?t be opened because Apple cannot check it for malicious software?. ?This software needs to be updated. Contact the developer for more information.? Safari downloaded this file today at 3:54 PM from?& (you.com ) with 2 buttons: "Show in Finder" and ?OK" On second attempt, I got the same message with 3 buttons: ?Open", "Show in Finder" and ?Cancel? And ?Open? works Alleluia and Go figure!! Thanks, Scott! Roger > On Mar 29, 2021, at 3:33 PM, scott--- via use-livecode wrote: > > Hello Roger, > > I made a standalone from an empty stack (and one button that does nothing.) It is 64 bit Mac. It is zipped. It isn?t in a DMG or any sort of installer. It is NOT code signed. I have been using this app to test how opening non-signed Mac Apps work. After (finally) opening the app I can throw it away and double click the zipped original to get another app that hasn?t been approved if I want to try the process again. > > You can find this app here: > > http://traditionaltaekwondo.org/test/Testeroni.app.zip > > > -- > Scott Morrow > > Elementary Software > (Now with 20% less chalk dust!) > web https://elementarysoftware.com/ > email scott at elementarysoftware.com > booth 1-360-734-4701 > mobile 360-920-0715 > ------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From alex at tweedly.net Mon Mar 29 19:26:33 2021 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2021 00:26:33 +0100 Subject: How to get the path to the 'My Livecode' or the plugins folder? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6cdcbd2f-c7c4-113a-a7a9-7e16a9e96499@tweedly.net> Not pretty, but if you know you have a particular plugin installed, then you can do put the filename of stack "4wDevo" into tmp and work from there; e.g. I get /Users/alextweedly/Dropbox (Personal)/My Livecode/Plugins/4wDevo.livecode Alex. On 30/03/2021 00:06, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: > Dear all, > > is there a way to get the path to the 'My Livecode' or the 'Plugins' folder? > > Searched now for more than 40 minutes and did not find anything about it? > > Is there maybe a hidden variable / property available for this? > > > Regards > Matthias > > > > - > Matthias Rebbe > Life Is Too Short For Boring Code > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jiml at netrin.com Mon Mar 29 19:26:58 2021 From: jiml at netrin.com (Jim Lambert) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 16:26:58 -0700 Subject: mouseenter/mouseleave and pointer tool In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46837ACC-9E37-49D2-A7F4-369ED011CC00@netrin.com> > Paul wrote: > > This is not a bug, but a feature. Our app contains a specialized network > drawing tool and we switch to the pointer tool to allow the user to > interact with drawn objects I'd respectfully suggest that is a fringe use case when compared to authoring in the LC IDE. Every time I click on a button in the IDE with the pointer tool in order to select and, say, move it, I'd prefer if the mousedown/up scripts didn't fire off because I'm editing the UI not running it. If I recall correctly this was not how LC/Revolution originally behaved. Richard, remember SuperEdit? Very much about authoring. Jim Lambert From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Mon Mar 29 19:31:16 2021 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2021 01:31:16 +0200 Subject: How to get the path to the 'My Livecode' or the plugins folder? In-Reply-To: <6cdcbd2f-c7c4-113a-a7a9-7e16a9e96499@tweedly.net> References: <6cdcbd2f-c7c4-113a-a7a9-7e16a9e96499@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <645046F6-EC0C-449E-AC4B-38C071508492@m-r-d.de> Thanks Alex, i will try that. I still hope there is a property for this available. But for the meantime your suggestion will do i think. Matthias - Matthias Rebbe Life Is Too Short For Boring Code > Am 30.03.2021 um 01:26 schrieb Alex Tweedly via use-livecode : > > Not pretty, but if you know you have a particular plugin installed, then you can do > > put the filename of stack "4wDevo" into tmp > > and work from there; e.g. I get > > /Users/alextweedly/Dropbox (Personal)/My Livecode/Plugins/4wDevo.livecode > > Alex. > > On 30/03/2021 00:06, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: >> Dear all, >> >> is there a way to get the path to the 'My Livecode' or the 'Plugins' folder? >> >> Searched now for more than 40 minutes and did not find anything about it? >> >> Is there maybe a hidden variable / property available for this? >> >> >> Regards >> Matthias >> >> >> >> - >> Matthias Rebbe >> Life Is Too Short For Boring Code >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ahsoftware at sonic.net Mon Mar 29 19:40:15 2021 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 16:40:15 -0700 Subject: How to get the path to the 'My Livecode' or the plugins folder? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 3/29/21 4:06 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: > Dear all, > > is there a way to get the path to the 'My Livecode' or the 'Plugins' folder? > > Searched now for more than 40 minutes and did not find anything about it? > > Is there maybe a hidden variable / property available for this? Not well documented, but... put revEnvironmentUserPluginsPath() -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From james at thehales.id.au Mon Mar 29 19:43:55 2021 From: james at thehales.id.au (james at thehales.id.au) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2021 10:43:55 +1100 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones Message-ID: <1D7A1CC6-C6E4-4694-AF00-F08DD1AAA90E@thehales.id.au> Hi Roger, Below is a link to the download page for MkvToolnix, an app for packaging/modifying mkv files. It is not notarised and requires the steps we have been suggesting to open (after copying it to your local machine from the distribution disk image.) https://www.fosshub.com/MKVToolNix.html Also, the message you say you get on your wife?s machine is unfamiliar to me and so I was wondering if her account is an admin privileged account. I assume most of us on the list run admin accounts (if on a Mac) as we assume we are savvy enough not to get caught out by malicious apps. If that is the case, does trying to open your stack when logged in via an admin privileged account bring up a different error dlog? James From jiml at netrin.com Mon Mar 29 19:46:25 2021 From: jiml at netrin.com (Jim Lambert) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 16:46:25 -0700 Subject: mouseenter/mouseleave and pointer tool In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I wrote: > Every time I click on a button in the IDE with the pointer tool in order to select and, say, move it, I'd prefer if the mousedown/up scripts didn't fire off because I'm editing the UI not running it. Nevermind. Those scripts are not firing when using the pointer tool. I'm crazy!!! Jim Lambert From scott at elementarysoftware.com Mon Mar 29 19:52:03 2021 From: scott at elementarysoftware.com (scott at elementarysoftware.com) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 16:52:03 -0700 Subject: mouseenter/mouseleave and pointer tool In-Reply-To: <46837ACC-9E37-49D2-A7F4-369ED011CC00@netrin.com> References: <46837ACC-9E37-49D2-A7F4-369ED011CC00@netrin.com> Message-ID: I DO remember SuperEdit. So fast! But it was a completely ?dead? development environment. You had to leave it in order to get any messages, IIRC. ? Scott > On Mar 29, 2021, at 4:26 PM, Jim Lambert via use-livecode wrote: > >> Paul wrote: >> >> This is not a bug, but a feature. Our app contains a specialized network >> drawing tool and we switch to the pointer tool to allow the user to >> interact with drawn objects > > I'd respectfully suggest that is a fringe use case when compared to authoring in the LC IDE. > Every time I click on a button in the IDE with the pointer tool in order to select and, say, move it, I'd prefer if the mousedown/up scripts didn't fire off because I'm editing the UI not running it. If I recall correctly this was not how LC/Revolution originally behaved. > > Richard, remember SuperEdit? Very much about authoring. > > Jim Lambert > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From irog at mac.com Mon Mar 29 19:53:22 2021 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 16:53:22 -0700 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: <80f8ff83-aa57-ebcf-c92f-59c6a7bf28ff@tweedly.net> References: <5F43B66A-5D41-4D5A-B818-9AFDCBDD9083@icloud.com> <2FE10EA9-E251-4111-84B5-279A10CFCEAE@starfirelighting.com> <1D44F710-74D2-47B1-8517-8D5AA079668E@mac.com> <7b209c72-6763-8575-b82b-58a58e5d8719@tweedly.net> <08D772F4-7023-48BB-8020-503AB1426735@mac.com> <28afa73a-6d35-6ded-1779-f1432f815685@tweedly.net> <1638D0EB-BDE0-4F54-BB16-940B195C0825@mac.com> <80f8ff83-aa57-ebcf-c92f-59c6a7bf28ff@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <389B0139-47B2-4ECC-91C4-3AF266BB8376@mac.com> Thanks for your kind offer, Alex, but I think the process of opening an unblessed standalone for OS 11 has been solved. See my previous post in response to Scott. Turns out to be fairly simple . . . at least for this iteration of OS. In short, just right-click 2 times. It may also be important to do this from the Downloads folder. Not sure about that tho Roger > On Mar 29, 2021, at 3:29 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote: > > > On 29/03/2021 22:11, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: >> Thanks, Alex. Unfortunately it comes up with the ?No Entry? sign on this machine. >> >> Roger > > I'm not exactly sure what message this is, or when it happens. But this sounds like "Fortunately, ..." because I think it means you have an app that hits a brickwall of permission on your own machine - so we can look at it in more detail without bothering your wife's many multiple windows. > > It's hard to describe these things in words - hence my suggestion of a Zoom call where you can screen-share and let others watch (and suggest) while you try it. If you want to try that with just me, please do (I'm unavailable for the next hour, but free from approx 00:30 - 01:30 UK time), or tomorrow almost any time, given some notice). > Or contact me off-list and we'll find a time. > Or suggest a time and someone else might be able to join in and help. > > There are lots of motivated people wanting to help - or to find out what they're going to need to tell their own users when those users upgrade to a later MacOS. :-) > > Alex. > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dev at porta.ca Mon Mar 29 21:02:44 2021 From: dev at porta.ca (Dev) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 19:02:44 -0600 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: <389B0139-47B2-4ECC-91C4-3AF266BB8376@mac.com> References: <389B0139-47B2-4ECC-91C4-3AF266BB8376@mac.com> Message-ID: No Roger, the folder has nothing to do with it. The two right click process will work wherever you unzip the new arrival. Sent from my iPhone > On Mar 29, 2021, at 5:54 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: > > ?Thanks for your kind offer, Alex, but I think the process of opening an unblessed standalone for OS 11 has been solved. See my previous post in response to Scott. Turns out to be fairly simple . . . at least for this iteration of OS. In short, just right-click 2 times. It may also be important to do this from the Downloads folder. Not sure about that tho > > Roger > >> On Mar 29, 2021, at 3:29 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote: >> >> >>> On 29/03/2021 22:11, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: >>> Thanks, Alex. Unfortunately it comes up with the ?No Entry? sign on this machine. >>> >>> Roger >> >> I'm not exactly sure what message this is, or when it happens. But this sounds like "Fortunately, ..." because I think it means you have an app that hits a brickwall of permission on your own machine - so we can look at it in more detail without bothering your wife's many multiple windows. >> >> It's hard to describe these things in words - hence my suggestion of a Zoom call where you can screen-share and let others watch (and suggest) while you try it. If you want to try that with just me, please do (I'm unavailable for the next hour, but free from approx 00:30 - 01:30 UK time), or tomorrow almost any time, given some notice). >> Or contact me off-list and we'll find a time. >> Or suggest a time and someone else might be able to join in and help. >> >> There are lots of motivated people wanting to help - or to find out what they're going to need to tell their own users when those users upgrade to a later MacOS. :-) >> >> Alex. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From brian at milby7.com Mon Mar 29 21:19:50 2021 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 21:19:50 -0400 Subject: Resources folder on mac, and the good old days In-Reply-To: <71C370F3-9A3E-478D-9B10-1B74156ACA69@optusnet.com.au> References: <71C370F3-9A3E-478D-9B10-1B74156ACA69@optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: <8B5415AD-72E2-4A66-9190-1926B92D8829@milby7.com> Once I took a version of the LC IDE and edited one of the files in the package before opening it the first time. It would not open and complained about being corrupt/modified/something (can?t recall exact message). I trashed it and extracted a fresh copy. I launched it once and then quit. Then I modified the file (actually a widget I believe). LC opened fine this time. So, at least a version or two ago (pre Catalina), the package contents were only verified as unchanged on first launch. Sent from my iPad > On Mar 29, 2021, at 6:22 PM, Neville Smythe via use-livecode wrote: > > ? > >> On 30 Mar 2021, at 12:44 am, use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com wrote: >> >> Unfortunately this has never been true on macOS X. >> >> The Resources folder (which is in the macOS app bundle) should be >> treated as read-only? > > Mark Waddingham chides me for saying it is OK to write to the Resources folder in the app bundle on a Mac. Mark is, as ever absolutely correct. The correct place for application support files is the Library/Applications Support folder, and this has been the AppleGuideline for a very long time (although I am not quite so sure about that *always* being the case..) I was wrong, naughty, and I promise? Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. I strongly advise against this awful filthy and degrading practice. > > Except m?lud (he said in a very small voice), may I offer some admittedly post-hoc and flimsy excuses. > > 1. The app in which I do this originates from the days before the Application Support folder existed (I am pretty sure) and has grown like Topsy ever since. It worked then, it still works now. With one big caveat: this is ad hoc software, distributed to a small group of users (Colin: by all the usual methods - server, email, DropBox? they all work to deliver a working app without my having to renew my lapsed Apple Developer registration.) If I were to commercialise the app and so notarise it, I would expect writing to the Resources folder *not* to work, probably notarising keeps a checksum of the whole app bundle not just the executable. Maybe this distinction between ad hoc and notarised software is part of the confusion of this very confused thread, to which I have regrettably added more confusion. > > 2. It is a great convenience to my Mac users to be able to move their copy of the app to another machine, or give it to a friend, without having to worry about finding and transferring auxiliary files (unlike my linux users, who I must advise to keep everything together in one directory). > > 3. There is no need for Installer code, or more problematic, and with a whiff of sulphur to sensitive old-hand Mac user noses, an Uninstaller. Again if I were to commercialise the app, these would come with the territory of license files etc. > > 4. If my user wants to get at the auxiliary files, it is easy enough to explain the arcane process of opening up the Contents of the bundle. Explaining how to access the Library is only slightly more arcane, but I really don?t want the uninitiated venturing into that dark scary and very dangerous place . > > So, readers, don?t do it. But keep it to yourself if you do. And it probably won?t work in MacOS 17.6. > > Finally on the problem of opening unsafe/unnotarised apps in recent MacOS, I am afraid the discussion here has clearly only increased the confusion of the original forum user. Surely best to refer to the definitive source, the Apple Support documents which you can get by googling ?How to open an unsafe app in Big Sur? (or Catalina, or Mojave). The instructions from Apple are clear and straightforward, unlike some tech forums which start off by talking about using the terminal to turn off Gatekeeper. > > Neville > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From irog at mac.com Mon Mar 29 22:01:48 2021 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 19:01:48 -0700 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: References: <389B0139-47B2-4ECC-91C4-3AF266BB8376@mac.com> Message-ID: Well, the thought plickins. I just also tried to open another standalone from Bob Earp and it failed to open. I am back to my usual state of befuddlement! Roger > On Mar 29, 2021, at 6:02 PM, Dev via use-livecode wrote: > > No Roger, the folder has nothing to do with it. The two right click process will work wherever you unzip the new arrival. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Mar 29, 2021, at 5:54 PM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: >> >> ?Thanks for your kind offer, Alex, but I think the process of opening an unblessed standalone for OS 11 has been solved. See my previous post in response to Scott. Turns out to be fairly simple . . . at least for this iteration of OS. In short, just right-click 2 times. It may also be important to do this from the Downloads folder. Not sure about that tho >> >> Roger >> >>> On Mar 29, 2021, at 3:29 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> >>>> On 29/03/2021 22:11, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: >>>> Thanks, Alex. Unfortunately it comes up with the ?No Entry? sign on this machine. >>>> >>>> Roger >>> >>> I'm not exactly sure what message this is, or when it happens. But this sounds like "Fortunately, ..." because I think it means you have an app that hits a brickwall of permission on your own machine - so we can look at it in more detail without bothering your wife's many multiple windows. >>> >>> It's hard to describe these things in words - hence my suggestion of a Zoom call where you can screen-share and let others watch (and suggest) while you try it. If you want to try that with just me, please do (I'm unavailable for the next hour, but free from approx 00:30 - 01:30 UK time), or tomorrow almost any time, given some notice). >>> Or contact me off-list and we'll find a time. >>> Or suggest a time and someone else might be able to join in and help. >>> >>> There are lots of motivated people wanting to help - or to find out what they're going to need to tell their own users when those users upgrade to a later MacOS. :-) >>> >>> Alex. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From irog at mac.com Mon Mar 29 22:26:54 2021 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 19:26:54 -0700 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: <1D7A1CC6-C6E4-4694-AF00-F08DD1AAA90E@thehales.id.au> References: <1D7A1CC6-C6E4-4694-AF00-F08DD1AAA90E@thehales.id.au> Message-ID: <32EE02D5-56A7-4225-BFEE-7E2CFA80C16D@mac.com> Hi James, I downloaded MKVtoolsNix and it opens on the second right-click. As for my wife?s admin privileges, I will have to check later Thanks very much Roger > On Mar 29, 2021, at 4:43 PM, james--- via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi Roger, > > Below is a link to the download page for MkvToolnix, an app for packaging/modifying mkv files. It is not notarised and requires the steps we have been suggesting to open (after copying it to your local machine from the distribution disk image.) > > https://www.fosshub.com/MKVToolNix.html > > Also, the message you say you get on your wife?s machine is unfamiliar to me and so I was wondering if her account is an admin privileged account. I assume most of us on the list run admin accounts (if on a Mac) as we assume we are savvy enough not to get caught out by malicious apps. If that is the case, does trying to open your stack when logged in via an admin privileged account bring up a different error dlog? > > James > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Mar 29 22:38:46 2021 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 19:38:46 -0700 Subject: mouseenter/mouseleave and pointer tool In-Reply-To: <46837ACC-9E37-49D2-A7F4-369ED011CC00@netrin.com> References: <46837ACC-9E37-49D2-A7F4-369ED011CC00@netrin.com> Message-ID: <390aaf7e-cdfa-d0dd-69d7-5d1dd19c1073@fourthworld.com> Jim Lambert wrote: > Every time I click on a button in the IDE with the pointer tool > in order to select and, say, move it, I'd prefer if the mousedown/up > scripts didn't fire off because I'm editing the UI not running it. > If I recall correctly this was not how LC/Revolution originally > behaved. It still does. I don't believed anything with mouse message handling has changed in many years, if at all. I haven't seen how Klaus came across the mouseEnter message, so I can't begin to guess how this is only coming to his attention now. Either way, with the engine having worked as it does with tool messages since 1992 I'm not expecting change. > Richard, remember SuperEdit? Very much about authoring. I remember it well, as does John Balgenorth and perhaps some others here. It was surprisingly polarizing: some loved it, some hated, but I never met anyone who'd used it who was indifferent about it. I loved it. But I loved everything about the package at that time. Maybe I mostly loved the time. :) -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From klaus at major-k.de Tue Mar 30 04:51:23 2021 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2021 10:51:23 +0200 Subject: mouseenter/mouseleave and pointer tool In-Reply-To: <390aaf7e-cdfa-d0dd-69d7-5d1dd19c1073@fourthworld.com> References: <46837ACC-9E37-49D2-A7F4-369ED011CC00@netrin.com> <390aaf7e-cdfa-d0dd-69d7-5d1dd19c1073@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <9797A662-C2EC-4693-A3D8-2B780310F235@major-k.de> Hi Richard, > Am 30.03.2021 um 04:38 schrieb Richard Gaskin via use-livecode : > > Jim Lambert wrote: > > > Every time I click on a button in the IDE with the pointer tool > > in order to select and, say, move it, I'd prefer if the mousedown/up > > scripts didn't fire off because I'm editing the UI not running it. > > If I recall correctly this was not how LC/Revolution originally > > behaved. > > It still does. I don't believed anything with mouse message handling has changed in many years, if at all. as I wrote this must have started with Revolution 5.x Engine <=4.x did not fire these messages with POINTER tool selected. > I haven't seen how Klaus came across the mouseEnter message, so I can't begin to guess how this is only coming to his attention now. I was working on a customer stack recently, who had this "hover" effect built into all of his buttons. Never noticed this before. > Either way, with the engine having worked as it does with tool messages since 1992 I'm not expecting change. Yes, I think I was a bit too hasty with my report, since fixing this "inconsequence" will obviously break a lot of stacks. > > Richard, remember SuperEdit? Very much about authoring. > I remember it well, as does John Balgenorth and perhaps some others here. > It was surprisingly polarizing: some loved it, some hated, but I never met anyone who'd used it who was indifferent about it. I just loved it and rarely switched over to SuperCard! :-) > I loved it. But I loved everything about the package at that time. Maybe I mostly loved the time. :) > > -- > Richard Gaskin Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From roland.huettmann at gmail.com Tue Mar 30 06:00:25 2021 From: roland.huettmann at gmail.com (R.H.) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2021 12:00:25 +0200 Subject: Unreliable File Deletion Message-ID: Referring Date: 2021-03-29 09:04:04 +0100 From: Mark Waddingham Subject: Re: Unreliable File Deletion Message-ID: Environment: Windows 10, 64bit LC: Version 9.6.1 Dear Mark, Richard and all Thank you for your replies ))). Your comments are -- of course -- right, but I made a mistake in posting something that was incorrectly typed. Your wrote: > ll cases of people reporting bugs with 'delete file' on Windows that I > have seen fall into one of two cases: > 1) The path they give to 'delete file' is wrong. > 2) The file they are trying to delete is open by the app, or by another app. I am using URL ("binfile:"&) to read and write from and to the file. For deleting I was and I am using and always have been using "delete file ". Unfortunately, I stated this incorrectly when retyping it to compose it as part of my message as I changed the original statement here and there, but it is not in the actual statement. This is my mistake to post it as such and I apologize. The file is in a writeable/readable location. It is neither protected, nor is it used by any other service/app. On my system (Windows 10) asking for specialfolderpath("resources") result in the following path: "C:/Users/Roland/Documents/LC-Recent/LSP_App". This is so because I put it there. It is in the DOCUMENTS folder and therefore should not give problems. But the same problem with deleting appears also when using specialfolderpath("documents"). At other times, it worked! It is not something that is very transparent for now. Since on the Desktop and in any such user directory I can delete files without assigning Admin rigths, the problem should not be a system problem. I can also issue a shell command, as I posted, to delete and it works well without problems. This at least is my fallback in case LC does not delete my temporary file/s. So, actually, I use my function and do not care as it solves what it needs to solve (just replace the wrong "delete file (binfile.." part and put "delete file "). I know that other apps can use files and then it will be possible to delete such files for good reasons. But that is not the case here. I can investigate other possibilities, but nevertheless, it should work in such directory. If I find the time to check out the error also looking at the system message, I will do and post if there is anything that makes it more clear. Thanks Richard for posting your additional error investigation. I will check it out later as currently I am in a rush job. Your posting: > delete file tFile > if the result is not empty then > answer the result &" ("& sysError() &")" > end if Regards to everyone here Roland From sundown.pacifier at icloud.com Tue Mar 30 06:21:27 2021 From: sundown.pacifier at icloud.com (John Balgenorth) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2021 03:21:27 -0700 Subject: Unreliable File Deletion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have only read this one entry your subject so I may not be of any help but LiveCode is written using C++ and here is a link with some info about temporary files; https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/io/c/tmpfile The above link mentions, If the program closes the file, e.g. by executing std::fclose, the file is automatically deleted. It seemed to me you were interested in deleting a temporary file and it is possible the ability to delete a temporary file is not built in and won?t be nor is it a bug. If I remember correctly the proper way would be to do a flush on the file instead of deleting it. That deletes everything in the file and you do not bother deleting it because it is deleted automatically when your program closes and after it is flushed the memory used will not be an issue either because it is cleared. JB > On Mar 30, 2021, at 3:02 AM, R.H. via use-livecode wrote: > > ?Referring Date: 2021-03-29 09:04:04 +0100 > From: Mark Waddingham > Subject: Re: Unreliable File Deletion > Message-ID: > > Environment: Windows 10, 64bit > LC: Version 9.6.1 > > Dear Mark, Richard and all > > Thank you for your replies ))). > > Your comments are -- of course -- right, but I made a mistake in posting > something that was incorrectly typed. > > Your wrote: >> ll cases of people reporting bugs with 'delete file' on Windows that I >> have seen fall into one of two cases: >> 1) The path they give to 'delete file' is wrong. >> 2) The file they are trying to delete is open by the app, or by another > app. > > I am using URL ("binfile:"&) to read and write from and to the > file. > For deleting I was and I am using and always have been using "delete file > ". > > Unfortunately, I stated this incorrectly when retyping it to compose it as > part of my message as I changed the original statement here and there, but > it is not in the actual statement. This is my mistake to post it as such > and I apologize. > > The file is in a writeable/readable location. It is neither protected, nor > is it used by any other service/app. > > On my system (Windows 10) asking for specialfolderpath("resources") result > in the following path: "C:/Users/Roland/Documents/LC-Recent/LSP_App". This > is so because I put it there. > > It is in the DOCUMENTS folder and therefore should not give problems. > But the same problem with deleting appears also when using > specialfolderpath("documents"). > > At other times, it worked! It is not something that is very transparent for > now. > > Since on the Desktop and in any such user directory I can delete files > without assigning Admin rigths, the problem should not be a system problem. > I can also issue a shell command, as I posted, to delete and it works well > without problems. This at least is my fallback in case LC does not delete > my temporary file/s. So, actually, I use my function and do not care as it > solves what it needs to solve (just replace the wrong "delete file > (binfile.." part and put "delete file "). > > I know that other apps can use files and then it will be possible to delete > such files for good reasons. But that is not the case here. > > I can investigate other possibilities, but nevertheless, it should work in > such directory. If I find the time to check out the error also looking at > the system message, I will do and post if there is anything that makes it > more clear. > > Thanks Richard for posting your additional error investigation. I will > check it out later as currently I am in a rush job. > > Your posting: >> delete file tFile >> if the result is not empty then >> answer the result &" ("& sysError() &")" >> end if > > Regards to everyone here > Roland > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From toolbook at kestner.de Tue Mar 30 08:12:43 2021 From: toolbook at kestner.de (toolbook at kestner.de) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2021 14:12:43 +0200 Subject: slow responsiveness on windows - what was it like? Message-ID: <007501d7255d$fd617d90$f82478b0$@kestner.de> Hello, working with LC 9.6 on a fast win 10 machine the responsiveness of the IDE on every mouseclick or other action is almost not acceptable slow. I know that this issue has come up again and again over the years, but I just don't find the right search terms in the list archive. I know, there has been some tweaks to speed up. Thanks for any hint Tiemo From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Tue Mar 30 08:55:28 2021 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2021 14:55:28 +0200 Subject: slow responsiveness on windows - what was it like? In-Reply-To: <007501d7255d$fd617d90$f82478b0$@kestner.de> References: <007501d7255d$fd617d90$f82478b0$@kestner.de> Message-ID: Tiemo, one thing that slows down LC regardless of the platform is when the message box contains many lines of text. Do you have Microsoft Defender on your Win10 machine enabled? If so, you could exclude the Livecode program folder from realtime scanning. That could also help. If you experience performance problems while in the script editor then you could disable some of the newer options of the SE. While the SE has focus go to the menu Options under Edit and disable the newer options. Maybe this helps a little bit. - Matthias Rebbe Life Is Too Short For Boring Code Regards Matthias > Am 30.03.2021 um 14:12 schrieb Tiemo via use-livecode : > > Hello, > > working with LC 9.6 on a fast win 10 machine the responsiveness of the IDE > on every mouseclick or other action is almost not acceptable slow. > > I know that this issue has come up again and again over the years, but I > just don't find the right search terms in the list archive. > > I know, there has been some tweaks to speed up. > > Thanks for any hint > > > > Tiemo > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From toolbook at kestner.de Tue Mar 30 09:22:43 2021 From: toolbook at kestner.de (toolbook at kestner.de) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2021 15:22:43 +0200 Subject: AW: slow responsiveness on windows - what was it like? In-Reply-To: References: <007501d7255d$fd617d90$f82478b0$@kestner.de> Message-ID: <007c01d72567$c455b750$4d0125f0$@kestner.de> Thanks Matthias, I'll give it a try. I don't have MS defender enabled, but Kaspersky, have to look, if I can exclude LC there. I also think to remember to delete from time to time the preference file... Tiemo -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: use-livecode Im Auftrag von matthias rebbe via use-livecode Gesendet: Dienstag, 30. M?rz 2021 14:55 An: How to use LiveCode Cc: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Betreff: Re: slow responsiveness on windows - what was it like? Tiemo, one thing that slows down LC regardless of the platform is when the message box contains many lines of text. Do you have Microsoft Defender on your Win10 machine enabled? If so, you could exclude the Livecode program folder from realtime scanning. That could also help. If you experience performance problems while in the script editor then you could disable some of the newer options of the SE. While the SE has focus go to the menu Options under Edit and disable the newer options. Maybe this helps a little bit. - Matthias Rebbe Life Is Too Short For Boring Code Regards Matthias > Am 30.03.2021 um 14:12 schrieb Tiemo via use-livecode : > > Hello, > > working with LC 9.6 on a fast win 10 machine the responsiveness of the > IDE on every mouseclick or other action is almost not acceptable slow. > > I know that this issue has come up again and again over the years, but > I just don't find the right search terms in the list archive. > > I know, there has been some tweaks to speed up. > > Thanks for any hint > > > > Tiemo > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From brian at milby7.com Tue Mar 30 09:33:29 2021 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2021 09:33:29 -0400 Subject: slow responsiveness on windows - what was it like? In-Reply-To: <007c01d72567$c455b750$4d0125f0$@kestner.de> References: <007c01d72567$c455b750$4d0125f0$@kestner.de> Message-ID: <3EB51CF0-00A7-436B-A0EB-F9D491FAFC0B@milby7.com> The project browser is also known to slow down the IDE when open which is more noticeable on Windows. Sent from my iPhone > On Mar 30, 2021, at 9:24 AM, Tiemo via use-livecode wrote: > > ?Thanks Matthias, > > I'll give it a try. I don't have MS defender enabled, but Kaspersky, have to > look, if I can exclude LC there. > I also think to remember to delete from time to time the preference file... > > Tiemo > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: use-livecode Im Auftrag von > matthias rebbe via use-livecode > Gesendet: Dienstag, 30. M?rz 2021 14:55 > An: How to use LiveCode > Cc: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de > Betreff: Re: slow responsiveness on windows - what was it like? > > > Tiemo, > > one thing that slows down LC regardless of the platform is when the message > box contains many lines of text. > > Do you have Microsoft Defender on your Win10 machine enabled? If so, you > could exclude the Livecode program folder from realtime scanning. That could > also help. > > If you experience performance problems while in the script editor then you > could disable some of the newer options of the SE. While the SE has focus go > to the menu Options under Edit and disable the newer options. > > Maybe this helps a little bit. > > > > - > Matthias Rebbe > Life Is Too Short For Boring Code > > Regards > Matthias > >>> Am 30.03.2021 um 14:12 schrieb Tiemo via use-livecode >> : >> >> Hello, >> >> working with LC 9.6 on a fast win 10 machine the responsiveness of the >> IDE on every mouseclick or other action is almost not acceptable slow. >> >> I know that this issue has come up again and again over the years, but >> I just don't find the right search terms in the list archive. >> >> I know, there has been some tweaks to speed up. >> >> Thanks for any hint >> >> >> >> Tiemo >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From curry at pair.com Tue Mar 30 10:09:59 2021 From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2021 10:09:59 -0400 Subject: slow responsiveness on windows - what was it like? In-Reply-To: <007501d7255d$fd617d90$f82478b0$@kestner.de> References: <007501d7255d$fd617d90$f82478b0$@kestner.de> Message-ID: <3445fc20-693b-f32f-0205-660b573ecf18@pair.com> Tiemo: > working with LC 9.6 on a fast win 10 machine > the responsiveness of the IDE on every mouseclick > or other action is almost not acceptable slow. The biggest issue was not Windows per se, but rather disk access: LC IDE's casual repetitive disk usage + modern antivirus + HDD. Best solution: SDD. Next best: Turn off some SE auto options, tweak antivirus. Best wishes, Curry Kenworthy Custom Software Development "Better Methods, Better Results" LiveCode Training and Consulting http://livecodeconsulting.com/ From curry at pair.com Tue Mar 30 10:12:56 2021 From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2021 10:12:56 -0400 Subject: slow responsiveness on windows - what was it like? In-Reply-To: <007501d7255d$fd617d90$f82478b0$@kestner.de> References: <007501d7255d$fd617d90$f82478b0$@kestner.de> Message-ID: <0c9012da-e5b3-9586-7916-dd52c428dbeb@pair.com> Me: > Best solution: SDD. *SSD Best wishes, Curry Kenworthy Custom Software Development "Better Methods, Better Results" LiveCode Training and Consulting http://livecodeconsulting.com/ From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Tue Mar 30 10:30:25 2021 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2021 10:30:25 -0400 Subject: slow responsiveness on windows - what was it like? In-Reply-To: <007501d7255d$fd617d90$f82478b0$@kestner.de> References: <007501d7255d$fd617d90$f82478b0$@kestner.de> Message-ID: <003301d72571$3ca4bb80$b5ee3280$@net> Win 10 VM SSD LC 9.6.1 As of late the IDE SE is generally OK. In the past I have had the "scroll to end of script" nightmare when copying text with the mouse but have not seen it in 9.6.1. The line numbers freezing happens sometimes while debugging. Closing/opening the SE usually fixes it. It seems to happen after the script is stopped either buy a runtime error or stopping the debugger in the SE. The big responsiveness issue I have is a card taking 10-60 seconds to render as it varies from 5-200 groups each with one field. I figured it was me because I rolled my own device independence resizing library. This turned out not to be the case. I stepped though/put in timers and found that after the F11 on the last "pass opencard" the IDE goes up to 100% CPU(on that core) for 10-60 seconds. Then everything is back to normal. If I close the SE it becomes faster but not as fast as a standalone. So when I know that the card will have more than say 10 groups I close the SE to render it and then reopen the SE to make changes. LC is still my go to for speed of coding/deploying. When I flip to JavaScript or VB it is sooo painful to do text manipulation. I am a LC server cheerleader! Building https APIs in minutes by leveraging my desktop library is a real time saver. LC server might not scale up to millions of users but if I had millions of users I would not be coding anymore. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Tiemo via use-livecode Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2021 8:13 AM To: LiveCode User Liste senden Cc: toolbook at kestner.de Subject: slow responsiveness on windows - what was it like? Hello, working with LC 9.6 on a fast win 10 machine the responsiveness of the IDE on every mouseclick or other action is almost not acceptable slow. I know that this issue has come up again and again over the years, but I just don't find the right search terms in the list archive. I know, there has been some tweaks to speed up. Thanks for any hint Tiemo _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From sean at pidigital.co.uk Tue Mar 30 11:24:33 2021 From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Sean Cole (Pi)) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2021 15:24:33 +0000 Subject: Set and get dgData and dgText delay In-Reply-To: References: <8EA4FB16-572C-4E87-8909-B03818EC0738@starfirelighting.com> <82223421-8275-48E2-9852-EA61B6C2FCB6@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: Hi all, After much fiddling with the code and looking into the depths of LC core code I've found what happens, and it's all to do with message flow. This way works as expected: 1. I create an array from Data 2. Apply data to DataGrid using set dgData 3. Read from data in the same handler or sub handler using 'put dgData into myArray' This way sometimes does not: 1. Create an array from Data 2. Apply data to DataGrid using set dgData 3. Read from data in the same handler or sub handler using 'put dgText into myData' This way definitely does not: 1. Apply data to DataGrid using set dgText 2. Read from data in the same handler or sub handler using either 'put dgText into myData' or 'put dgData into myArray' dgText does not get processed from either dgText input or from dgData input during the message flow until it reaches either the end of the entire message flow or a 'Send "myHandler" in 0 sec'. myHandler will be able to read from the dgText because it will have been processed between the original message flow completing and myHandler beginning it's message flow. There does not appear to be a way to force the DG library into processing the cached data from 'set dgData' into the string required for 'get dgText'. So, for my use case, I have switched to creating a simple function to convert the TSV data into an array then apply to the grid as dgData. Then, if I need to read from it in the same message chain/flow I grab the dgData (which is always available unless set to non-persistent) and process the data from the array (which works out better in the long run anyway). Sean On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 at 18:11, Sean Cole (Pi) wrote: > Thanks Bob, but the columns are defined, both in my test stack and the > project stack. It gets filled once the scripts have finished running, so it > can't be that which is the issue in this instance. But thanks once again > for your input. > > Sean > > On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 at 17:55, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> DGText will only contain data for the columns you have defined in the >> Datagrid properties. If your dgData array keys have no matching columns it >> will still populate the dgData but dgText will return empty. This is why I >> avoid using dgText at all anymore. >> >> I have also noticed that if one of the row arrays in the dgData is empty >> then that can bork the data grid. You have to set the dgData to empty to >> get rid of it. >> >> Bob S >> >> >> On Mar 25, 2021, at 5:44 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> >> wrote: >> >> I have seen this here and there for years, and having nothing to do with >> dataGrids per se. >> >> A handler will fail to run, but will step through in the debugger without >> issue. This usually resolves, and I never know why. >> >> Craig >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > From klaus at major-k.de Tue Mar 30 12:46:30 2021 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2021 18:46:30 +0200 Subject: Android and httpS Message-ID: <5B4EEDA4-E477-4BDA-A5DA-DED7CDA4853F@major-k.de> Hi all, quick question: iOS only allows links to httpS sites. Is this also the case for ANDROID? Thanks in advance! Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Tue Mar 30 13:02:21 2021 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2021 13:02:21 -0400 Subject: Android and httpS In-Reply-To: <5B4EEDA4-E477-4BDA-A5DA-DED7CDA4853F@major-k.de> References: <5B4EEDA4-E477-4BDA-A5DA-DED7CDA4853F@major-k.de> Message-ID: <003d01d72586$75ec8840$61c598c0$@net> I have links to http(non-secure) sites in both iOS and Android apps. I disabled ATS(standalone settings) for iOS. Android just works. I think I heard in passing that Google will address non-secure web links at some point. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Klaus major-k via use-livecode Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2021 12:47 PM To: Klaus major-k via use-livecode Cc: Klaus major-k Subject: Android and httpS Hi all, quick question: iOS only allows links to httpS sites. Is this also the case for ANDROID? Thanks in advance! Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From klaus at major-k.de Tue Mar 30 13:03:49 2021 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2021 19:03:49 +0200 Subject: Android and httpS In-Reply-To: <003d01d72586$75ec8840$61c598c0$@net> References: <5B4EEDA4-E477-4BDA-A5DA-DED7CDA4853F@major-k.de> <003d01d72586$75ec8840$61c598c0$@net> Message-ID: <0E93DB77-A134-4496-9B6A-6B3E9485E6E0@major-k.de> Hi Ralph, > Am 30.03.2021 um 19:02 schrieb Ralph DiMola via use-livecode : > > I have links to http(non-secure) sites in both iOS and Android apps. I > disabled ATS(standalone settings) for iOS. Android just works. I think I > heard in passing that Google will address non-secure web links at some > point. thank you, very helpful! > Ralph DiMola Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From merakosp at gmail.com Tue Mar 30 13:23:09 2021 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2021 20:23:09 +0300 Subject: Android and httpS In-Reply-To: <0E93DB77-A134-4496-9B6A-6B3E9485E6E0@major-k.de> References: <5B4EEDA4-E477-4BDA-A5DA-DED7CDA4853F@major-k.de> <003d01d72586$75ec8840$61c598c0$@net> <0E93DB77-A134-4496-9B6A-6B3E9485E6E0@major-k.de> Message-ID: Hello all, Android 9+ by default blocks non-https connections. You can workaround it by tweaking the manifest file. There is a bug report (and a pull request) about it. I am afk now so I cannot post the link. Cheers, Panos On Tue, 30 Mar 2021, 20:04 Klaus major-k via use-livecode, < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hi Ralph, > > > Am 30.03.2021 um 19:02 schrieb Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: > > > > I have links to http(non-secure) sites in both iOS and Android apps. I > > disabled ATS(standalone settings) for iOS. Android just works. I think I > > heard in passing that Google will address non-secure web links at some > > point. > > thank you, very helpful! > > > Ralph DiMola > > Best > > Klaus > > -- > Klaus Major > https://www.major-k.de > https://www.major-k.de/bass > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From klaus at major-k.de Tue Mar 30 13:33:23 2021 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2021 19:33:23 +0200 Subject: Android and httpS In-Reply-To: References: <5B4EEDA4-E477-4BDA-A5DA-DED7CDA4853F@major-k.de> <003d01d72586$75ec8840$61c598c0$@net> <0E93DB77-A134-4496-9B6A-6B3E9485E6E0@major-k.de> Message-ID: <67C1C689-B41A-4AD7-A8CD-D755A8D911F3@major-k.de> Hi Panos, > Am 30.03.2021 um 19:23 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode : > > Hello all, > > Android 9+ by default blocks non-https connections. You can workaround it > by tweaking the manifest file. There is a bug report (and a pull request) > about it. thank you! > I am afk ... you are WHAT? Please take non-native english speaking LC users into considereration. 8-) > Cheers, > Panos Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From merakosp at gmail.com Tue Mar 30 13:45:21 2021 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2021 20:45:21 +0300 Subject: Android and httpS In-Reply-To: <67C1C689-B41A-4AD7-A8CD-D755A8D911F3@major-k.de> References: <5B4EEDA4-E477-4BDA-A5DA-DED7CDA4853F@major-k.de> <003d01d72586$75ec8840$61c598c0$@net> <0E93DB77-A134-4496-9B6A-6B3E9485E6E0@major-k.de> <67C1C689-B41A-4AD7-A8CD-D755A8D911F3@major-k.de> Message-ID: Hello Klaus, Heh sorry, I am a non-native English speaker as well :) Afk --> away from keyboard I will post the link to the bug report tomorrow. Regards, Panos On Tue, 30 Mar 2021, 20:34 Klaus major-k via use-livecode, < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hi Panos, > > > Am 30.03.2021 um 19:23 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>: > > > > Hello all, > > > > Android 9+ by default blocks non-https connections. You can workaround it > > by tweaking the manifest file. There is a bug report (and a pull request) > > about it. > > thank you! > > > I am afk ... > > you are WHAT? > Please take non-native english speaking LC users into considereration. 8-) > > > Cheers, > > Panos > > Best > > Klaus > > -- > Klaus Major > https://www.major-k.de > https://www.major-k.de/bass > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From klaus at major-k.de Tue Mar 30 13:48:58 2021 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2021 19:48:58 +0200 Subject: Android and httpS In-Reply-To: References: <5B4EEDA4-E477-4BDA-A5DA-DED7CDA4853F@major-k.de> <003d01d72586$75ec8840$61c598c0$@net> <0E93DB77-A134-4496-9B6A-6B3E9485E6E0@major-k.de> <67C1C689-B41A-4AD7-A8CD-D755A8D911F3@major-k.de> Message-ID: <4941F56B-255D-4302-9A63-686648F1CB9E@major-k.de> Hi Panos, > Am 30.03.2021 um 19:45 schrieb panagiotis merakos via use-livecode : > > Hello Klaus, > > Heh sorry, I am a non-native English speaker as well :) OK, what is the greek abbreviation for this? Wouldn't have understood that, too. :-D > Afk --> away from keyboard > I will post the link to the bug report tomorrow. Not neccessary, I believe you! 8-) > Regards, > Panos Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From jiml at netrin.com Tue Mar 30 16:10:55 2021 From: jiml at netrin.com (Jim Lambert) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2021 13:10:55 -0700 Subject: mouseenter/mouseleave and pointer tool In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4EFC9C93-BE39-4220-80A3-E4BC32DC3AED@netrin.com> Actually I'm not entirely crazy. Here is a MOV showing the anomalous behavior of mouse events executing even when the Pointer Tool is active. https://netrin.on-rev.com/videos/lc_select_issue.mov This is intermittent. I don't have a reliable way of reproducing. If I did I'd file a bug report or attach an example stack to Klaus' report. Sometimes it is solved by closing and re-opening LC or a different version of LC. Odd. Jim Lambert From klaus at major-k.de Tue Mar 30 16:19:17 2021 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2021 22:19:17 +0200 Subject: mouseenter/mouseleave and pointer tool In-Reply-To: <4EFC9C93-BE39-4220-80A3-E4BC32DC3AED@netrin.com> References: <4EFC9C93-BE39-4220-80A3-E4BC32DC3AED@netrin.com> Message-ID: <5FF9F9D0-6AF4-4951-83DA-63179C092E7F@major-k.de> Hi Jim, > Am 30.03.2021 um 22:10 schrieb Jim Lambert via use-livecode : > > Actually I'm not entirely crazy. > Here is a MOV showing the anomalous behavior of mouse events executing even when the Pointer Tool is active. > > https://netrin.on-rev.com/videos/lc_select_issue.mov > > This is intermittent. I don't have a reliable way of reproducing. If I did I'd file a bug report or attach an example stack to Klaus' report. > Sometimes it is solved by closing and re-opening LC or a different version of LC. > > Odd. > > Jim Lambert OUCH! :-/ Luckily I have only experienced the mouseenter/mouseleave "inconsequence". Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de https://www.major-k.de/bass klaus at major-k.de From tom at makeshyft.com Tue Mar 30 16:20:18 2021 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2021 16:20:18 -0400 Subject: mouseenter/mouseleave and pointer tool In-Reply-To: <4EFC9C93-BE39-4220-80A3-E4BC32DC3AED@netrin.com> References: <4EFC9C93-BE39-4220-80A3-E4BC32DC3AED@netrin.com> Message-ID: Hey Jim, To me its doing what its supposed to be doing. The messages get sent in both modes, and have always. However, selection should be possible even if the mousedown is sent and received. So THAT is odd if indeed you cannot select, but you may get that behavior if you take off the "answer dialog". On Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 4:12 PM Jim Lambert via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Actually I'm not entirely crazy. > Here is a MOV showing the anomalous behavior of mouse events executing > even when the Pointer Tool is active. > > https://netrin.on-rev.com/videos/lc_select_issue.mov < > https://netrin.on-rev.com/videos/lc_select_issue.mov> > > This is intermittent. I don't have a reliable way of reproducing. If I did > I'd file a bug report or attach an example stack to Klaus' report. > Sometimes it is solved by closing and re-opening LC or a different version > of LC. > > Odd. > > Jim Lambert > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Tom Glod Founder & Developer MakeShyft R.D.A (www.makeshyft.com) Mobile:647.562.9411 From hlowe at me.com Tue Mar 30 19:26:37 2021 From: hlowe at me.com (HENRY LOWE) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2021 16:26:37 -0700 Subject: TreeView Widget Drag and Drop Support Message-ID: <098CBE76-9748-48D5-A034-1EFD15FE7125@me.com> I am using the LC TreeView widget to implement a sidebar containing a hierarchical menu in a MacOS app. The widget seems well suited for this purpose and I have successfully created a facsimile of the standard sidebar that is used increasingly in both MacOS and iPadOS apps. However, I need to drag rows from a data grid table to a TreeView widget row in the sidebar but the current implementation of the TreeView widget does not report the TreeView widget row (element) where the drop occurred. A TreeView widget message, such as 'ActionDragDrop pPath? where pPath is the path to the element that was ?dropped on? would be incredibly helpful. I have implemented a workaround method off drag and drop to the widget but it occasionally breaks. Looking at the LiveCode Builder documentation, widgets can support the following messages related to drag and drop functionality: OnDragDrop, On DragEnter, OnDragFinish, OnDragLeave, On DragMove, On DragStart. These messages are not currently supported in the TreeView widget LCB source. Adding them would make this incredibly useful widget even more powerful. Another issue that I encountered when using the TreeView widget to implement a sidebar hierarchical menu was that clicking on a row in the TreeView widget toggles the row?s hilite state - click on an item and it hilites, click on it again and it unhilites. While this may be standard behavior for a list, in a menu clicking on a hilited row should not change the row?s hilite state. It should remain hilited. Only clicking on another row (menu item) should unhilite a row and then hilite the selected row. It would be great to have a ?togglehilite? TreeView property. If true the TreeView would toggle a row?s hilite state as it does now, while if false it would not. Any thoughts? Henry From scott at elementarysoftware.com Tue Mar 30 19:49:40 2021 From: scott at elementarysoftware.com (scott at elementarysoftware.com) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2021 16:49:40 -0700 Subject: mouseenter/mouseleave and pointer tool In-Reply-To: <4EFC9C93-BE39-4220-80A3-E4BC32DC3AED@netrin.com> References: <4EFC9C93-BE39-4220-80A3-E4BC32DC3AED@netrin.com> Message-ID: <766E47CA-D302-4364-9EC4-2B912B524523@elementarysoftware.com> In the video, when you switch tools between Browse and Pointer your cursor does not change to reflect this. Not sure whether this visual anomaly is actually happening on your system or if your cursor is being altered by the video screen capture software. Putting the answer dialog inside the mouseEnter handler does make it difficult to select. :- ) ? Scott > On Mar 30, 2021, at 1:10 PM, Jim Lambert via use-livecode wrote: > > Actually I'm not entirely crazy. > Here is a MOV showing the anomalous behavior of mouse events executing even when the Pointer Tool is active. > > https://netrin.on-rev.com/videos/lc_select_issue.mov > > This is intermittent. I don't have a reliable way of reproducing. If I did I'd file a bug report or attach an example stack to Klaus' report. > Sometimes it is solved by closing and re-opening LC or a different version of LC. > > Odd. > > Jim Lambert > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From sean at pidigital.co.uk Tue Mar 30 20:06:19 2021 From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Sean Cole (Pi)) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2021 00:06:19 +0000 Subject: TreeView Widget Drag and Drop Support In-Reply-To: <098CBE76-9748-48D5-A034-1EFD15FE7125@me.com> References: <098CBE76-9748-48D5-A034-1EFD15FE7125@me.com> Message-ID: Hi Henry, I often take the widgets, like TreeView, and add in other message responders like this. It's real easy to do? Just make a copy of the widget folder from the LC Tools Folder (Livecode.app/Contents/Tools/Extensions/com.livecode.widget.treeview) and into your own Livecode extensions folder (mine is in ~/Documents/My LiveCode/Extensions/ or my dropbox folder somewhere). Rename the folder from com.livecode. to com.mine. or something. Then open treeview.lcb in BBEdit or TextEdit, etc, from the copy folder. Line 88, change widget com.livecode.widget.treeview to use the new folder name you gave. Next, search for 'onMouseUp'. you should find: public handler onMouseLeave() returns nothing put 0 into mHoverRow redraw all end handler Before that in the code, add in your other handlers (OnDragDrop, etc) using the same syntax. No need to use the put or redraw messages of course. Look in the dictionary, lcb section, to check the handler names to use. Then, open the manifest.xml from the same folder. Line 2, again change com.livecode.widget.treeview to use the new folder name and Line 3 to something a little more unique. Then again search for onmouseup. You will see: Again, follow the syntax adding in the lines for the handler. Look through the other files in the folder and change if you wish but it is not essential. Now in LC, open the extension builder and use the 'open existing..' button to navigate to the folder you created. Then, from the bottom, the install button will build it into the toolbar. Now you have a customised version. Make sure you add your replacement widget in the standaloneSettings>Inclusions before building your standalones. All the best Sean On Wed, 31 Mar 2021 at 00:26, HENRY LOWE via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I am using the LC TreeView widget to implement a sidebar containing a > hierarchical menu in a MacOS app. The widget seems well suited for this > purpose and I have successfully created a facsimile of the standard sidebar > that is used increasingly in both MacOS and iPadOS apps. However, I need to > drag rows from a data grid table to a TreeView widget row in the sidebar > but the current implementation of the TreeView widget does not report the > TreeView widget row (element) where the drop occurred. A TreeView widget > message, such as 'ActionDragDrop pPath? where pPath is the path to the > element that was ?dropped on? would be incredibly helpful. I have > implemented a workaround method off drag and drop to the widget but it > occasionally breaks. > > Looking at the LiveCode Builder documentation, widgets can support the > following messages related to drag and drop functionality: > > OnDragDrop, On DragEnter, OnDragFinish, OnDragLeave, On DragMove, On > DragStart. > > These messages are not currently supported in the TreeView widget LCB > source. Adding them would make this incredibly useful widget even more > powerful. > > Another issue that I encountered when using the TreeView widget to > implement a sidebar hierarchical menu was that clicking on a row in the > TreeView widget toggles the row?s hilite state - click on an item and it > hilites, click on it again and it unhilites. While this may be standard > behavior for a list, in a menu clicking on a hilited row should not change > the row?s hilite state. It should remain hilited. Only clicking on another > row (menu item) should unhilite a row and then hilite the selected row. It > would be great to have a ?togglehilite? TreeView property. If true the > TreeView would toggle a row?s hilite state as it does now, while if false > it would not. > > Any thoughts? > > Henry > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From brian at milby7.com Tue Mar 30 20:07:49 2021 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2021 20:07:49 -0400 Subject: TreeView Widget Drag and Drop Support In-Reply-To: <098CBE76-9748-48D5-A034-1EFD15FE7125@me.com> References: <098CBE76-9748-48D5-A034-1EFD15FE7125@me.com> Message-ID: <9F467DE9-7E68-4DD4-90F3-4BC9C943D56E@milby7.com> This seems like something I could look into. Many of the recent improvements (additions) to that widget are things that I added. On the surface this seems to be not that difficult. Please add a feature request in bugzilla for this. For the second issue, this is easily handled in script. There is a message for ?hiliteChanged? that you can use to clear the highlight. You just need to trap for empty so you don?t create a loop. We use this approach in SivaSiva where this widget is used a couple places as a menu. It is useful because you can have the highlight show briefly to indicate the touch/click happened. Thanks, Brian Sent from my iPhone > On Mar 30, 2021, at 7:28 PM, HENRY LOWE via use-livecode wrote: > > ?I am using the LC TreeView widget to implement a sidebar containing a hierarchical menu in a MacOS app. The widget seems well suited for this purpose and I have successfully created a facsimile of the standard sidebar that is used increasingly in both MacOS and iPadOS apps. However, I need to drag rows from a data grid table to a TreeView widget row in the sidebar but the current implementation of the TreeView widget does not report the TreeView widget row (element) where the drop occurred. A TreeView widget message, such as 'ActionDragDrop pPath? where pPath is the path to the element that was ?dropped on? would be incredibly helpful. I have implemented a workaround method off drag and drop to the widget but it occasionally breaks. > > Looking at the LiveCode Builder documentation, widgets can support the following messages related to drag and drop functionality: > > OnDragDrop, On DragEnter, OnDragFinish, OnDragLeave, On DragMove, On DragStart. > > These messages are not currently supported in the TreeView widget LCB source. Adding them would make this incredibly useful widget even more powerful. > > Another issue that I encountered when using the TreeView widget to implement a sidebar hierarchical menu was that clicking on a row in the TreeView widget toggles the row?s hilite state - click on an item and it hilites, click on it again and it unhilites. While this may be standard behavior for a list, in a menu clicking on a hilited row should not change the row?s hilite state. It should remain hilited. Only clicking on another row (menu item) should unhilite a row and then hilite the selected row. It would be great to have a ?togglehilite? TreeView property. If true the TreeView would toggle a row?s hilite state as it does now, while if false it would not. > > Any thoughts? > > Henry > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From sean at pidigital.co.uk Tue Mar 30 20:13:20 2021 From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Sean Cole (Pi)) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2021 00:13:20 +0000 Subject: mouseenter/mouseleave and pointer tool In-Reply-To: <766E47CA-D302-4364-9EC4-2B912B524523@elementarysoftware.com> References: <4EFC9C93-BE39-4220-80A3-E4BC32DC3AED@netrin.com> <766E47CA-D302-4364-9EC4-2B912B524523@elementarysoftware.com> Message-ID: Scott/Jim, I often find I MUST click the browse and pointer tool twice before it is established. I know that is a bug (that I live with without complaint even - surprising for me, I know!) but I wonder if this, as Scott suggests, is what is actually going on here. Although in my experiences the highlight only momentarily sits on the one I click before reverting until I click it again. Experimenting with it just now I note that if I click on the toolbar top drag bar before clicking the tool selector it works first time no problem. But if the focus goes back to the main stack, clicking on the browse tool (particularly it seems) does not always work first time. Fascinating! Sean On Wed, 31 Mar 2021 at 00:49, scott--- via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > In the video, when you switch tools between Browse and Pointer your cursor > does not change to reflect this. Not sure whether this visual anomaly is > actually happening on your system or if your cursor is being altered by the > video screen capture software. > > Putting the answer dialog inside the mouseEnter handler does make it > difficult to select. :- ) > > ? > Scott > > > On Mar 30, 2021, at 1:10 PM, Jim Lambert via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > Actually I'm not entirely crazy. > > Here is a MOV showing the anomalous behavior of mouse events executing > even when the Pointer Tool is active. > > > > https://netrin.on-rev.com/videos/lc_select_issue.mov < > https://netrin.on-rev.com/videos/lc_select_issue.mov> > > > > This is intermittent. I don't have a reliable way of reproducing. If I > did I'd file a bug report or attach an example stack to Klaus' report. > > Sometimes it is solved by closing and re-opening LC or a different > version of LC. > > > > Odd. > > > > Jim Lambert > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Mar 30 20:25:01 2021 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2021 00:25:01 +0000 Subject: How to get the path to the 'My Livecode' or the plugins folder? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Which is what you have to do to add a plugin to Devolution. Someone turned me on to this: eg. I have in the Custom 1 script: on mouseUp -- Your custom code goes here: put revenvironmentuserpluginspath() & "/" into tPluginsPath put tPluginsPath & "Navigator.rev" into tFilePath go stack tFilePath go stack (the defaultStack) end mouseUp On Mar 29, 2021, at 4:40 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode > wrote: On 3/29/21 4:06 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: Dear all, is there a way to get the path to the 'My Livecode' or the 'Plugins' folder? Searched now for more than 40 minutes and did not find anything about it? Is there maybe a hidden variable / property available for this? Not well documented, but... put revEnvironmentUserPluginsPath() -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Mar 30 20:29:59 2021 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2021 00:29:59 +0000 Subject: Resources folder on mac, and the good old days In-Reply-To: <8B5415AD-72E2-4A66-9190-1926B92D8829@milby7.com> References: <71C370F3-9A3E-478D-9B10-1B74156ACA69@optusnet.com.au> <8B5415AD-72E2-4A66-9190-1926B92D8829@milby7.com> Message-ID: That is correct. On my Mac, I modify 2 of the data grid behaviors (still waiting on nested data grid behaviors LC) and I have to launch the new LC app first before I do so, otherwise I bork the app. Once I do I can happily modify the behaviors without an issue. Haven?t tried on the lates MacOS though. Bob S On Mar 29, 2021, at 6:19 PM, Brian Milby via use-livecode > wrote: Once I took a version of the LC IDE and edited one of the files in the package before opening it the first time. It would not open and complained about being corrupt/modified/something (can?t recall exact message). I trashed it and extracted a fresh copy. I launched it once and then quit. Then I modified the file (actually a widget I believe). LC opened fine this time. So, at least a version or two ago (pre Catalina), the package contents were only verified as unchanged on first launch. From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Mar 30 20:56:39 2021 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2021 00:56:39 +0000 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: <6C1CC26F-037B-424E-B862-E1A3DC4BBD62@m-r-d.de> References: <63b01206-58ad-100e-4017-2cebf751d040@fourthworld.com> <6defc43870f74a7b653e7b87bb6c709b@livecode.com> <11B5B7C7-9089-4423-936B-66E34FA74541@mac.com> <6C1CC26F-037B-424E-B862-E1A3DC4BBD62@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: Shouldn?t we just as a global initiative focus on finding ?bad? people, and making them pay dearly for effing up everything in the entire world or holding us hostage? Ah, but that would mean that world powers would have to give up their own e-espionage programs, and you can hold your breath on that one. There is only one real solution to all of this, and that is firewalling each country, and sanctioning any country with active criminal enterprises, and who don?t make any real effort to deal with them, like cutting them off from the rest of the world, but the uproar from that prospect would be deafening. What we want is real security without having to pay for it in any regard, or do the really hard things necessary to obtain it, and that is a pipe dream. Bob S On Mar 29, 2021, at 10:24 AM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode > wrote: Don't blame Microsoft and Apple There is a reason why MS and Apple require such things. It is security. If there weren't any "bad" people who try to hack, hijack or infect our computers using viruses, trojan or other ways, then it wouldn't be necessary either. From jiml at netrin.com Tue Mar 30 22:02:31 2021 From: jiml at netrin.com (Jim Lambert) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2021 19:02:31 -0700 Subject: mouseenter/mouseleave and pointer tool In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <91A207E5-0789-457E-8488-F58B0374D2E7@netrin.com> Good suggestions. Thanks, all. Commenting out the answer command makes no difference. I quit LC and now cannot reproduce the behavior as it is intermittent. Next time it happens I'll try Scott's suggestions with the Tool Palette. Thanks, Jim Lambert From toolbook at kestner.de Wed Mar 31 04:20:14 2021 From: toolbook at kestner.de (toolbook at kestner.de) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2021 10:20:14 +0200 Subject: AW: slow responsiveness on windows - what was it like? In-Reply-To: <3445fc20-693b-f32f-0205-660b573ecf18@pair.com> References: <007501d7255d$fd617d90$f82478b0$@kestner.de> <3445fc20-693b-f32f-0205-660b573ecf18@pair.com> Message-ID: <000801d72606$add69720$0983c560$@kestner.de> After checking several ideas, Currys hint gave me the right direction. My Machine has a SSD, but I have all my files on my domain server and was as ever since "decades" working directly on my server. Working over my gigabit network is what the newer LC versions don't like anymore. Copying all files on my local SSD everything is fine. If this is what it is with LC, I have to think about a new backup strategy, because I usually don't backup my client, All of my data and files are located on my server. Thanks all for your ideas Tiemo -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: use-livecode Im Auftrag von Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode Gesendet: Dienstag, 30. M?rz 2021 16:10 An: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Cc: Curry Kenworthy Betreff: Re: slow responsiveness on windows - what was it like? Tiemo: > working with LC 9.6 on a fast win 10 machine > the responsiveness of the IDE on every mouseclick > or other action is almost not acceptable slow. The biggest issue was not Windows per se, but rather disk access: LC IDE's casual repetitive disk usage + modern antivirus + HDD. Best solution: SDD. Next best: Turn off some SE auto options, tweak antivirus. Best wishes, Curry Kenworthy Custom Software Development "Better Methods, Better Results" LiveCode Training and Consulting http://livecodeconsulting.com/ _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Wed Mar 31 05:12:31 2021 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2021 11:12:31 +0200 Subject: slow responsiveness on windows - what was it like? In-Reply-To: <000801d72606$add69720$0983c560$@kestner.de> References: <007501d7255d$fd617d90$f82478b0$@kestner.de> <3445fc20-693b-f32f-0205-660b573ecf18@pair.com> <000801d72606$add69720$0983c560$@kestner.de> Message-ID: <5677841D-AFC2-4FFA-A92E-CAE7D6004F75@m-r-d.de> - Matthias Rebbe Life Is Too Short For Boring Code > Am 31.03.2021 um 10:20 schrieb Tiemo via use-livecode : > > After checking several ideas, Currys hint gave me the right direction. > My Machine has a SSD, but I have all my files on my domain server and was as > ever since "decades" working directly on my server. > Working over my gigabit network is what the newer LC versions don't like > anymore. Copying all files on my local SSD everything is fine. > If this is what it is with LC, I have to think about a new backup strategy, > because I usually don't backup my client, All of my data and files are > located on my server. > How about a local OwnCloud installation. https://owncloud.com/de/ The principle is the same as Dropbox. The data is stored on a server and is synchronized with the client machine. So you still are working with local files, but a client running on your computer synchronizes your local files with the server. > Thanks all for your ideas > Tiemo > > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: use-livecode Im Auftrag von > Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode > Gesendet: Dienstag, 30. M?rz 2021 16:10 > An: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Cc: Curry Kenworthy > Betreff: Re: slow responsiveness on windows - what was it like? > > > Tiemo: > >> working with LC 9.6 on a fast win 10 machine > the responsiveness of the > IDE on every mouseclick > or other action is almost not acceptable slow. > > The biggest issue was not Windows per se, but rather disk access: > LC IDE's casual repetitive disk usage + modern antivirus + HDD. > > Best solution: SDD. > Next best: Turn off some SE auto options, tweak antivirus. > > Best wishes, > > Curry Kenworthy > > Custom Software Development > "Better Methods, Better Results" > LiveCode Training and Consulting > http://livecodeconsulting.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From chipsm at themartinz.com Wed Mar 31 05:47:44 2021 From: chipsm at themartinz.com (chipsm themartinz.com) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2021 09:47:44 +0000 Subject: slow responsiveness on windows - what was it like? In-Reply-To: <5677841D-AFC2-4FFA-A92E-CAE7D6004F75@m-r-d.de> References: <007501d7255d$fd617d90$f82478b0$@kestner.de> <3445fc20-693b-f32f-0205-660b573ecf18@pair.com> <000801d72606$add69720$0983c560$@kestner.de> <5677841D-AFC2-4FFA-A92E-CAE7D6004F75@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: I just modified my McAfee real-time scanning and Excluded files "LiveCode Indy.exe. Any lag in performance with LiveCode has now been eliminated. Sincerely, Clarence Martin Email: chipsm at themartinz.com Phone: 626 6965561 -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode On Behalf Of matthias rebbe via use-livecode Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2021 2:13 AM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Subject: Re: slow responsiveness on windows - what was it like? - Matthias Rebbe Life Is Too Short For Boring Code > Am 31.03.2021 um 10:20 schrieb Tiemo via use-livecode : > > After checking several ideas, Currys hint gave me the right direction. > My Machine has a SSD, but I have all my files on my domain server and > was as ever since "decades" working directly on my server. > Working over my gigabit network is what the newer LC versions don't > like anymore. Copying all files on my local SSD everything is fine. > If this is what it is with LC, I have to think about a new backup > strategy, because I usually don't backup my client, All of my data and > files are located on my server. > How about a local OwnCloud installation. https://owncloud.com/de/ The principle is the same as Dropbox. The data is stored on a server and is synchronized with the client machine. So you still are working with local files, but a client running on your computer synchronizes your local files with the server. > Thanks all for your ideas > Tiemo > > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: use-livecode Im Auftrag > von Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode > Gesendet: Dienstag, 30. M?rz 2021 16:10 > An: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Cc: Curry Kenworthy > Betreff: Re: slow responsiveness on windows - what was it like? > > > Tiemo: > >> working with LC 9.6 on a fast win 10 machine > the responsiveness of >> the > IDE on every mouseclick > or other action is almost not acceptable slow. > > The biggest issue was not Windows per se, but rather disk access: > LC IDE's casual repetitive disk usage + modern antivirus + HDD. > > Best solution: SDD. > Next best: Turn off some SE auto options, tweak antivirus. > > Best wishes, > > Curry Kenworthy > > Custom Software Development > "Better Methods, Better Results" > LiveCode Training and Consulting > http://livecodeconsulting.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From heather at livecode.com Wed Mar 31 06:59:42 2021 From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2021 11:59:42 +0100 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: <389B0139-47B2-4ECC-91C4-3AF266BB8376@mac.com> References: <5F43B66A-5D41-4D5A-B818-9AFDCBDD9083@icloud.com> <2FE10EA9-E251-4111-84B5-279A10CFCEAE@starfirelighting.com> <1D44F710-74D2-47B1-8517-8D5AA079668E@mac.com> <7b209c72-6763-8575-b82b-58a58e5d8719@tweedly.net> <08D772F4-7023-48BB-8020-503AB1426735@mac.com> <28afa73a-6d35-6ded-1779-f1432f815685@tweedly.net> <1638D0EB-BDE0-4F54-BB16-940B195C0825@mac.com> <80f8ff83-aa57-ebcf-c92f-59c6a7bf28ff@tweedly.net> <389B0139-47B2-4ECC-91C4-3AF266BB8376@mac.com> Message-ID: <0A74019A-C4A0-4138-8416-C695DD21F898@livecode.com> I thought at this point, I could make a useful contribution to this thread: https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1386097-i-get-a-warning-about-malicious-software-when-opening-a-livecode-standalone-on-mac My thanks to Scott for the handy test app, I hope you do not mind me using it to create this lesson... Best Regards, Heather Heather Laine Customer Services Manager LiveCode Ltd www.livecode.com > On 30 Mar 2021, at 00:53, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: > > Thanks for your kind offer, Alex, but I think the process of opening an unblessed standalone for OS 11 has been solved. See my previous post in response to Scott. Turns out to be fairly simple . . . at least for this iteration of OS. In short, just right-click 2 times. It may also be important to do this from the Downloads folder. Not sure about that tho > > Roger > >> On Mar 29, 2021, at 3:29 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote: >> >> >> On 29/03/2021 22:11, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: >>> Thanks, Alex. Unfortunately it comes up with the ?No Entry? sign on this machine. >>> >>> Roger >> >> I'm not exactly sure what message this is, or when it happens. But this sounds like "Fortunately, ..." because I think it means you have an app that hits a brickwall of permission on your own machine - so we can look at it in more detail without bothering your wife's many multiple windows. >> >> It's hard to describe these things in words - hence my suggestion of a Zoom call where you can screen-share and let others watch (and suggest) while you try it. If you want to try that with just me, please do (I'm unavailable for the next hour, but free from approx 00:30 - 01:30 UK time), or tomorrow almost any time, given some notice). >> Or contact me off-list and we'll find a time. >> Or suggest a time and someone else might be able to join in and help. >> >> There are lots of motivated people wanting to help - or to find out what they're going to need to tell their own users when those users upgrade to a later MacOS. :-) >> >> Alex. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From lheaford at icloud.com Wed Mar 31 07:03:43 2021 From: lheaford at icloud.com (Terence Heaford) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2021 12:03:43 +0100 Subject: Copy Script vs Behaviours Message-ID: <96B01BD6-9AB5-41D8-9D73-A9B354FFBD8B@icloud.com> I have a card with a group which is to hold the objects when I create a chart. I have pie, bar and line chart substack libraries for each with the code contained in the stack script. When the user changes the type of chart I have been using: set the script of myGroup to the script of stack myChartLib and to be fair this works well. I have not used behaviours before and have just switched to that method by changing the behaviour of the chart object to the substack script and that also seems to work, although without doing a test I can?t be sure but changing the script does seem a little quicker. Can anyone provide some insight into any benefit of using one way over the other. Thanks Terry From toolbook at kestner.de Wed Mar 31 07:45:13 2021 From: toolbook at kestner.de (toolbook at kestner.de) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2021 13:45:13 +0200 Subject: AW: slow responsiveness on windows - what was it like? In-Reply-To: <5677841D-AFC2-4FFA-A92E-CAE7D6004F75@m-r-d.de> References: <007501d7255d$fd617d90$f82478b0$@kestner.de> <3445fc20-693b-f32f-0205-660b573ecf18@pair.com> <000801d72606$add69720$0983c560$@kestner.de> <5677841D-AFC2-4FFA-A92E-CAE7D6004F75@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <004201d72623$50669550$f133bff0$@kestner.de> Thanks for the idea Matthias! Tiemo -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: use-livecode Im Auftrag von matthias rebbe via use-livecode Gesendet: Mittwoch, 31. M?rz 2021 11:13 An: How to use LiveCode Cc: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Betreff: Re: slow responsiveness on windows - what was it like? - Matthias Rebbe Life Is Too Short For Boring Code > Am 31.03.2021 um 10:20 schrieb Tiemo via use-livecode : > > After checking several ideas, Currys hint gave me the right direction. > My Machine has a SSD, but I have all my files on my domain server and > was as ever since "decades" working directly on my server. > Working over my gigabit network is what the newer LC versions don't > like anymore. Copying all files on my local SSD everything is fine. > If this is what it is with LC, I have to think about a new backup > strategy, because I usually don't backup my client, All of my data and > files are located on my server. > How about a local OwnCloud installation. https://owncloud.com/de/ The principle is the same as Dropbox. The data is stored on a server and is synchronized with the client machine. So you still are working with local files, but a client running on your computer synchronizes your local files with the server. > Thanks all for your ideas > Tiemo > > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: use-livecode Im Auftrag > von Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode > Gesendet: Dienstag, 30. M?rz 2021 16:10 > An: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Cc: Curry Kenworthy > Betreff: Re: slow responsiveness on windows - what was it like? > > > Tiemo: > >> working with LC 9.6 on a fast win 10 machine > the responsiveness of >> the > IDE on every mouseclick > or other action is almost not acceptable slow. > > The biggest issue was not Windows per se, but rather disk access: > LC IDE's casual repetitive disk usage + modern antivirus + HDD. > > Best solution: SDD. > Next best: Turn off some SE auto options, tweak antivirus. > > Best wishes, > > Curry Kenworthy > > Custom Software Development > "Better Methods, Better Results" > LiveCode Training and Consulting > http://livecodeconsulting.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From marksmithhfx at gmail.com Wed Mar 31 08:01:56 2021 From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2021 13:01:56 +0100 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: <0A74019A-C4A0-4138-8416-C695DD21F898@livecode.com> References: <5F43B66A-5D41-4D5A-B818-9AFDCBDD9083@icloud.com> <2FE10EA9-E251-4111-84B5-279A10CFCEAE@starfirelighting.com> <1D44F710-74D2-47B1-8517-8D5AA079668E@mac.com> <7b209c72-6763-8575-b82b-58a58e5d8719@tweedly.net> <08D772F4-7023-48BB-8020-503AB1426735@mac.com> <28afa73a-6d35-6ded-1779-f1432f815685@tweedly.net> <1638D0EB-BDE0-4F54-BB16-940B195C0825@mac.com> <80f8ff83-aa57-ebcf-c92f-59c6a7bf28ff@tweedly.net> <389B0139-47B2-4ECC-91C4-3AF266BB8376@mac.com> <0A74019A-C4A0-4138-8416-C695DD21F898@livecode.com> Message-ID: <824ABDEE-6F46-41DC-B05F-DF6159FC82CF@gmail.com> Wonderful, thanks for posting! Mark > On Mar 31, 2021, at 11:59 AM, Heather Laine via use-livecode wrote: > > I thought at this point, I could make a useful contribution to this thread: > > https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1386097-i-get-a-warning-about-malicious-software-when-opening-a-livecode-standalone-on-mac > > My thanks to Scott for the handy test app, I hope you do not mind me using it to create this lesson... > > Best Regards, > > Heather > > Heather Laine > Customer Services Manager > LiveCode Ltd > www.livecode.com > > > >> On 30 Mar 2021, at 00:53, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Thanks for your kind offer, Alex, but I think the process of opening an unblessed standalone for OS 11 has been solved. See my previous post in response to Scott. Turns out to be fairly simple . . . at least for this iteration of OS. In short, just right-click 2 times. It may also be important to do this from the Downloads folder. Not sure about that tho >> >> Roger >> >>> On Mar 29, 2021, at 3:29 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> >>> On 29/03/2021 22:11, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: >>>> Thanks, Alex. Unfortunately it comes up with the ?No Entry? sign on this machine. >>>> >>>> Roger >>> >>> I'm not exactly sure what message this is, or when it happens. But this sounds like "Fortunately, ..." because I think it means you have an app that hits a brickwall of permission on your own machine - so we can look at it in more detail without bothering your wife's many multiple windows. >>> >>> It's hard to describe these things in words - hence my suggestion of a Zoom call where you can screen-share and let others watch (and suggest) while you try it. If you want to try that with just me, please do (I'm unavailable for the next hour, but free from approx 00:30 - 01:30 UK time), or tomorrow almost any time, given some notice). >>> Or contact me off-list and we'll find a time. >>> Or suggest a time and someone else might be able to join in and help. >>> >>> There are lots of motivated people wanting to help - or to find out what they're going to need to tell their own users when those users upgrade to a later MacOS. :-) >>> >>> Alex. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From chipsm at themartinz.com Wed Mar 31 08:03:25 2021 From: chipsm at themartinz.com (chipsm themartinz.com) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2021 12:03:25 +0000 Subject: slow responsiveness on windows - what was it like? More Information about this fix Message-ID: A bit ago, maybe a year or two, I was having really, really slow performance when I was doing LiveCode scripting. I posted my problem on this forum and someone made a suggestion about how the LiveCode Script editor makes a lot of reads and writes to your computer. The suggestion was made to look at your anti-virus protection as this was causing the problem. I eliminated the problem by listing the LiveCode program (under the runrev folder) as an exception to the Virus Protection Scanning. That solved the problem. Thank you to whomever that suggestion was made by because it was a really frustrating thing to put up with. You can even list an exception if you are only using Windows Defender. Sincerely, Clarence Martin Email: chipsm at themartinz.com Phone: 626 6965561 -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode On Behalf Of matthias rebbe via use-livecode Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2021 2:13 AM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Subject: Re: slow responsiveness on windows - what was it like? - Matthias Rebbe Life Is Too Short For Boring Code > Am 31.03.2021 um 10:20 schrieb Tiemo via use-livecode : > > After checking several ideas, Currys hint gave me the right direction. > My Machine has a SSD, but I have all my files on my domain server and > was as ever since "decades" working directly on my server. > Working over my gigabit network is what the newer LC versions don't > like anymore. Copying all files on my local SSD everything is fine. > If this is what it is with LC, I have to think about a new backup > strategy, because I usually don't backup my client, All of my data and > files are located on my server. > How about a local OwnCloud installation. https://owncloud.com/de/ The principle is the same as Dropbox. The data is stored on a server and is synchronized with the client machine. So you still are working with local files, but a client running on your computer synchronizes your local files with the server. > Thanks all for your ideas > Tiemo > > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: use-livecode Im Auftrag > von Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode > Gesendet: Dienstag, 30. M?rz 2021 16:10 > An: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Cc: Curry Kenworthy > Betreff: Re: slow responsiveness on windows - what was it like? > > > Tiemo: > >> working with LC 9.6 on a fast win 10 machine > the responsiveness of >> the > IDE on every mouseclick > or other action is almost not acceptable slow. > > The biggest issue was not Windows per se, but rather disk access: > LC IDE's casual repetitive disk usage + modern antivirus + HDD. > > Best solution: SDD. > Next best: Turn off some SE auto options, tweak antivirus. > > Best wishes, > > Curry Kenworthy > > Custom Software Development > "Better Methods, Better Results" > LiveCode Training and Consulting > http://livecodeconsulting.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From merakosp at gmail.com Wed Mar 31 10:22:57 2021 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2021 17:22:57 +0300 Subject: [bug] strange memory leak in LC In-Reply-To: <968340be-831e-f86f-7f1e-9cda1ed22422@pdslabs.net> References: <82D2A2F7-D1AE-43F8-B682-685013CEE2FE@elementarysoftware.com> <4756D8CB-CDF1-44B2-B65C-8B219200A250@icloud.com> <968340be-831e-f86f-7f1e-9cda1ed22422@pdslabs.net> Message-ID: Hello all, After a brief Google search it seems there are some other apps that have a similar memory leak after upgrading to Big Sur: https://discussions.apple.com/thread/252276774 https://discussions.apple.com/thread/252090206 The issue folks here (in this list) have mentioned does not seem to be specific to M1 macs. It seems specific to Big Sur, since Andrew mentioned he saw that in an iMac, and there are no M1 iMacs so far. In the previous links people mention memory leaks in Safari. Do you also see a memory leak with Safari? Also, did you use a stack with a browser widget, when you experienced this issue? These 2 might be related. Also, did you use (or did you leave open) the Dictionary stack? The Dictionary does use a browser widget. So far we are not able to reproduce the issue, because we either run Big Sur on Parallels, and the VM is suspended when you choose "Sleep", or we connect to a remote M1 Mac mini via VNC, and the connection will be lost if we choose "Sleep" for this Mac. Kind regards, Panos -- On Sat, 27 Mar 2021 at 06:59, Phil Davis via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I created a little "leak test" stack that runs the "leaks" shell command > against the processID of the LC engine that runs the stack. It checks > for new leaks every 60 seconds and lists the number and size of each new > leak found. I'm running it in LC 9.6.1 on 3 Macs right now - Catalina, > High Sierra and Big Sur. > > After about 30 minutes: > - LC on Big Sur (M1) has 10 leaks for a total of 688 bytes. > - LC on Catalina (Intel) has no leaks. > - LC on High Sierra (Intel) has no leaks. > > Just FYI - > Phil Davis > > > On 3/26/21 7:33 PM, John Balgenorth via use-livecode wrote: > > I am not personally using Bug Sur but if you make a standalone does > > it leak memory too or is this only with the development system? > > > > JB > > > >> On Mar 26, 2021, at 7:29 PM, scott--- via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> > >> ?I?m running Big Sur and just got a warning from the OS that I was out > of application memory. Livecode was using 133.52 GB of memory. It had been > open for a couple days but it wasn?t doing anything. > >> -- > >> Scott Morrow > >> > >> Elementary Software > >> (Now with 20% less chalk dust!) > >> web https://elementarysoftware.com/ > >> email scott at elementarysoftware.com > >> booth 1-360-734-4701 > >> ------------------------------------------------------ > >> > >>> On Mar 26, 2021, at 6:53 AM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >>> > >>> Sean, > >>> > >>> The stack was not running anything. It was simply opened. I don?t > believe it would leak like that. Anyway, I?m monitoring to see if it > happens again. > >>> > >>> A > >>> > >>>>> On 26 Mar 2021, at 13:01, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >>>> Wow, Andre, that's impressive. That amounts to about 34MB per minute > over > >>>> 48hrs. I've had a pretty massive stack (226MB file at the moment) on > my Mac > >>>> sitting here over the last week. Looking in the activity monitor, LC > has > >>>> 987MB associated with it. and watching it over a period of time it > remains > >>>> stable and even went down a tiny bit. > >>>> > >>>> I wonder if this is more an issue with Rosetta2 in this instance. > Maybe > >>>> something in LC leaks because of the Rosetta transformation of the > binary. > >>>> Perhaps, as a test, open the same stack on a non-AppleSilicon Mac and > watch > >>>> them both for how much memory they expend over a period of time. > >>>> > >>>> All the best with that. > >>>> > >>>> Sean > >>>> > >>>> On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 at 10:03, Andre Garzia via use-livecode < > >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> I have no idea what happened. I?m running LC 9.6.2-rc-3 on macOS Big > Sur > >>>>> on M1 ISA (so it is running under Rosetta 2). I kept the IDE opened > for a > >>>>> couple days, I was working on a gaziliion stacks at the same time > and was > >>>>> not yet ready to close them. > >>>>> > >>>>> The stacks were not doing anything, they were not running ?send in > time? > >>>>> commands or doing any kind of processing, they were just opened. > Then macOS > >>>>> showed me a dialog I have never ever seen on macOS 10.x, a memory > >>>>> exhaustion dialog. Looking closer at it, LiveCode was using 100 GB of > >>>>> memory, as in Gigabyte, as can be seen on this screenshot: > >>>>> > >>>>> http://andregarzia.com/img/shots/lc-memory-leak.png < > >>>>> http://andregarzia.com/img/shots/lc-memory-leak.png> > >>>>> > >>>>> I remember things like the ?default button? causing leaks due to the > >>>>> animation and so on, but all I had was a bunch of custom stacks open > and > >>>>> the script editor focused. Thats it. It was open since yesterday. > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> use-livecode mailing list > >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >>>>> subscription preferences: > >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >>>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> use-livecode mailing list > >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> use-livecode mailing list > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > -- > Phil Davis > 503-307-4363 > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Mar 31 11:04:57 2021 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2021 15:04:57 +0000 Subject: slow responsiveness on windows - what was it like? In-Reply-To: <000801d72606$add69720$0983c560$@kestner.de> References: <007501d7255d$fd617d90$f82478b0$@kestner.de> <3445fc20-693b-f32f-0205-660b573ecf18@pair.com> <000801d72606$add69720$0983c560$@kestner.de> Message-ID: <966097E0-163B-4574-9DE8-5BB80AB7D318@iotecdigital.com> If the server at the other end of the gigabit network is a Windows server, that is what LC doesn?t like. It?s the file system that seems to be the issue. Bob S On Mar 31, 2021, at 1:20 AM, Tiemo via use-livecode > wrote: After checking several ideas, Currys hint gave me the right direction. My Machine has a SSD, but I have all my files on my domain server and was as ever since "decades" working directly on my server. Working over my gigabit network is what the newer LC versions don't like anymore. Copying all files on my local SSD everything is fine. If this is what it is with LC, I have to think about a new backup strategy, because I usually don't backup my client, All of my data and files are located on my server. Thanks all for your ideas Tiemo From irog at mac.com Wed Mar 31 11:49:28 2021 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2021 08:49:28 -0700 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: <0A74019A-C4A0-4138-8416-C695DD21F898@livecode.com> References: <5F43B66A-5D41-4D5A-B818-9AFDCBDD9083@icloud.com> <2FE10EA9-E251-4111-84B5-279A10CFCEAE@starfirelighting.com> <1D44F710-74D2-47B1-8517-8D5AA079668E@mac.com> <7b209c72-6763-8575-b82b-58a58e5d8719@tweedly.net> <08D772F4-7023-48BB-8020-503AB1426735@mac.com> <28afa73a-6d35-6ded-1779-f1432f815685@tweedly.net> <1638D0EB-BDE0-4F54-BB16-940B195C0825@mac.com> <80f8ff83-aa57-ebcf-c92f-59c6a7bf28ff@tweedly.net> <389B0139-47B2-4ECC-91C4-3AF266BB8376@mac.com> <0A74019A-C4A0-4138-8416-C695DD21F898@livecode.com> Message-ID: <49FE5CC5-8281-4BC5-8276-C0C061F9BD8D@mac.com> Many thanks Heather and Scott for these lessons. Unfortunately they don?t apply to OS Big Sur. In fact, it was because I initially thought that apple closed this door to opening standalones (SA) in Big Sur that I raised the alarm here. Turns out the process in Big Sur is even easier, involving just a few ?opening? clicks to actually open a SA which I discovered with the help of Scott and others here. The easiest way to describe it is to Right or Control click on the unzipped SA twice. The second time will add an ?Open? button to the dialog box that will indeed open it. There may be some variations of this that might work as well, but the second mouseClick on the SA must be a Right or Control click that brings up the context menu. I will try to get a short lesson with screen captures to the Forum soon. HTH and thanks to everyone who participated in this thread. Roger > On Mar 31, 2021, at 3:59 AM, Heather Laine via use-livecode wrote: > > I thought at this point, I could make a useful contribution to this thread: > > https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1386097-i-get-a-warning-about-malicious-software-when-opening-a-livecode-standalone-on-mac > > My thanks to Scott for the handy test app, I hope you do not mind me using it to create this lesson... > > Best Regards, > > Heather > > Heather Laine > Customer Services Manager > LiveCode Ltd > www.livecode.com > > > >> On 30 Mar 2021, at 00:53, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Thanks for your kind offer, Alex, but I think the process of opening an unblessed standalone for OS 11 has been solved. See my previous post in response to Scott. Turns out to be fairly simple . . . at least for this iteration of OS. In short, just right-click 2 times. It may also be important to do this from the Downloads folder. Not sure about that tho >> >> Roger >> >>> On Mar 29, 2021, at 3:29 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> >>> On 29/03/2021 22:11, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: >>>> Thanks, Alex. Unfortunately it comes up with the ?No Entry? sign on this machine. >>>> >>>> Roger >>> >>> I'm not exactly sure what message this is, or when it happens. But this sounds like "Fortunately, ..." because I think it means you have an app that hits a brickwall of permission on your own machine - so we can look at it in more detail without bothering your wife's many multiple windows. >>> >>> It's hard to describe these things in words - hence my suggestion of a Zoom call where you can screen-share and let others watch (and suggest) while you try it. If you want to try that with just me, please do (I'm unavailable for the next hour, but free from approx 00:30 - 01:30 UK time), or tomorrow almost any time, given some notice). >>> Or contact me off-list and we'll find a time. >>> Or suggest a time and someone else might be able to join in and help. >>> >>> There are lots of motivated people wanting to help - or to find out what they're going to need to tell their own users when those users upgrade to a later MacOS. :-) >>> >>> Alex. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Wed Mar 31 12:20:50 2021 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2021 18:20:50 +0200 Subject: How to get the path to the 'My Livecode' or the plugins folder? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <32195ACB-3FBE-4B22-BF15-389CDBCA172B@m-r-d.de> Thanks Mark, that is exactly what i was looking for. - Matthias Rebbe Life Is Too Short For Boring Code > Am 30.03.2021 um 01:40 schrieb Mark Wieder via use-livecode : > > On 3/29/21 4:06 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: >> Dear all, >> is there a way to get the path to the 'My Livecode' or the 'Plugins' folder? >> Searched now for more than 40 minutes and did not find anything about it? >> Is there maybe a hidden variable / property available for this? > > Not well documented, but... > > put revEnvironmentUserPluginsPath() > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From andre at andregarzia.com Wed Mar 31 12:25:08 2021 From: andre at andregarzia.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2021 17:25:08 +0100 Subject: [bug] strange memory leak in LC In-Reply-To: References: <82D2A2F7-D1AE-43F8-B682-685013CEE2FE@elementarysoftware.com> <4756D8CB-CDF1-44B2-B65C-8B219200A250@icloud.com> <968340be-831e-f86f-7f1e-9cda1ed22422@pdslabs.net> Message-ID: Hi Panos, The stack that was opened is a project that has many mainstacks in it?s stackfiles. Some of those stacks make use of the browser widget but the stacks that were open during the problem were not using it. I don?t recall the dictionary being open at that time either. I simply killed LC and kept going on, I wish I took some more time to try to investigate it but the IDE was not responding. I don?t use Safari so I can really tell anything about it leaking. Best A > On 31 Mar 2021, at 15:22, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode wrote: > > Hello all, > > After a brief Google search it seems there are some other apps that have a > similar memory leak after upgrading to Big Sur: > > https://discussions.apple.com/thread/252276774 > https://discussions.apple.com/thread/252090206 > > The issue folks here (in this list) have mentioned does not seem to be > specific to M1 macs. It seems specific to Big Sur, since Andrew mentioned > he saw that in an iMac, and there are no M1 iMacs so far. > > In the previous links people mention memory leaks in Safari. Do you also > see a memory leak with Safari? Also, did you use a stack with a browser > widget, when you experienced this issue? These 2 might be related. > > Also, did you use (or did you leave open) the Dictionary stack? The > Dictionary does use a browser widget. > > So far we are not able to reproduce the issue, because we either run Big > Sur on Parallels, and the VM is suspended when you choose "Sleep", or we > connect to a remote M1 Mac mini via VNC, and the connection will be lost if > we choose "Sleep" for this Mac. > > Kind regards, > Panos > -- > > On Sat, 27 Mar 2021 at 06:59, Phil Davis via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> I created a little "leak test" stack that runs the "leaks" shell command >> against the processID of the LC engine that runs the stack. It checks >> for new leaks every 60 seconds and lists the number and size of each new >> leak found. I'm running it in LC 9.6.1 on 3 Macs right now - Catalina, >> High Sierra and Big Sur. >> >> After about 30 minutes: >> - LC on Big Sur (M1) has 10 leaks for a total of 688 bytes. >> - LC on Catalina (Intel) has no leaks. >> - LC on High Sierra (Intel) has no leaks. >> >> Just FYI - >> Phil Davis >> >> >> On 3/26/21 7:33 PM, John Balgenorth via use-livecode wrote: >>> I am not personally using Bug Sur but if you make a standalone does >>> it leak memory too or is this only with the development system? >>> >>> JB >>> >>>> On Mar 26, 2021, at 7:29 PM, scott--- via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> ?I?m running Big Sur and just got a warning from the OS that I was out >> of application memory. Livecode was using 133.52 GB of memory. It had been >> open for a couple days but it wasn?t doing anything. >>>> -- >>>> Scott Morrow >>>> >>>> Elementary Software >>>> (Now with 20% less chalk dust!) >>>> web https://elementarysoftware.com/ >>>> email scott at elementarysoftware.com >>>> booth 1-360-734-4701 >>>> ------------------------------------------------------ >>>> >>>>> On Mar 26, 2021, at 6:53 AM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Sean, >>>>> >>>>> The stack was not running anything. It was simply opened. I don?t >> believe it would leak like that. Anyway, I?m monitoring to see if it >> happens again. >>>>> >>>>> A >>>>> >>>>>>> On 26 Mar 2021, at 13:01, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>>>> Wow, Andre, that's impressive. That amounts to about 34MB per minute >> over >>>>>> 48hrs. I've had a pretty massive stack (226MB file at the moment) on >> my Mac >>>>>> sitting here over the last week. Looking in the activity monitor, LC >> has >>>>>> 987MB associated with it. and watching it over a period of time it >> remains >>>>>> stable and even went down a tiny bit. >>>>>> >>>>>> I wonder if this is more an issue with Rosetta2 in this instance. >> Maybe >>>>>> something in LC leaks because of the Rosetta transformation of the >> binary. >>>>>> Perhaps, as a test, open the same stack on a non-AppleSilicon Mac and >> watch >>>>>> them both for how much memory they expend over a period of time. >>>>>> >>>>>> All the best with that. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sean >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 at 10:03, Andre Garzia via use-livecode < >>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I have no idea what happened. I?m running LC 9.6.2-rc-3 on macOS Big >> Sur >>>>>>> on M1 ISA (so it is running under Rosetta 2). I kept the IDE opened >> for a >>>>>>> couple days, I was working on a gaziliion stacks at the same time >> and was >>>>>>> not yet ready to close them. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The stacks were not doing anything, they were not running ?send in >> time? >>>>>>> commands or doing any kind of processing, they were just opened. >> Then macOS >>>>>>> showed me a dialog I have never ever seen on macOS 10.x, a memory >>>>>>> exhaustion dialog. Looking closer at it, LiveCode was using 100 GB of >>>>>>> memory, as in Gigabyte, as can be seen on this screenshot: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://andregarzia.com/img/shots/lc-memory-leak.png < >>>>>>> http://andregarzia.com/img/shots/lc-memory-leak.png> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I remember things like the ?default button? causing leaks due to the >>>>>>> animation and so on, but all I had was a bunch of custom stacks open >> and >>>>>>> the script editor focused. Thats it. It was open since yesterday. >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> -- >> Phil Davis >> 503-307-4363 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Wed Mar 31 12:48:00 2021 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2021 18:48:00 +0200 Subject: How to get the path to the 'My Livecode' or the plugins folder? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <80D17E27-B6F3-41E9-B9ED-B2A4D980F7EA@m-r-d.de> Thanks Bob for the "reminder" about Devolution and its custom1 buttons. I needed it to load a plugin right after i've built a standalone. Yesterdays discussion "New idea for Standalones" led me there. I want to automatically sign and notarize a MacOS standalone without any additional user interaction right away after it was built. For this i am using the standaloneSaved message. In this handler i am calling/opening my NotarizeHelper stack, give all needed information to the stack (just the path to the app bundle and the desired action) and start the notarization process. So no need anymore to do this manually after the standalone build process. ;) This works now w/o a problem. I am now enhancing the script to code sign also Windows standalones under macOS using osslsigncode. I have alreay an help app for this, but i would prefer to get it done also right after the standalone building process. So if i get/have this working, I can build standalones and code sign / notarize them with only one click. Regards, - Matthias Rebbe Life Is Too Short For Boring Code > Am 31.03.2021 um 02:25 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode : > > Which is what you have to do to add a plugin to Devolution. Someone turned me on to this: > > eg. I have in the Custom 1 script: > > on mouseUp > -- Your custom code goes here: > put revenvironmentuserpluginspath() & "/" into tPluginsPath > put tPluginsPath & "Navigator.rev" into tFilePath > go stack tFilePath > go stack (the defaultStack) > end mouseUp > > > On Mar 29, 2021, at 4:40 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode > wrote: > > On 3/29/21 4:06 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: > Dear all, > is there a way to get the path to the 'My Livecode' or the 'Plugins' folder? > Searched now for more than 40 minutes and did not find anything about it? > Is there maybe a hidden variable / property available for this? > > Not well documented, but... > > put revEnvironmentUserPluginsPath() > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Mar 31 12:51:06 2021 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2021 11:51:06 -0500 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: <0A74019A-C4A0-4138-8416-C695DD21F898@livecode.com> References: <5F43B66A-5D41-4D5A-B818-9AFDCBDD9083@icloud.com> <2FE10EA9-E251-4111-84B5-279A10CFCEAE@starfirelighting.com> <1D44F710-74D2-47B1-8517-8D5AA079668E@mac.com> <7b209c72-6763-8575-b82b-58a58e5d8719@tweedly.net> <08D772F4-7023-48BB-8020-503AB1426735@mac.com> <28afa73a-6d35-6ded-1779-f1432f815685@tweedly.net> <1638D0EB-BDE0-4F54-BB16-940B195C0825@mac.com> <80f8ff83-aa57-ebcf-c92f-59c6a7bf28ff@tweedly.net> <389B0139-47B2-4ECC-91C4-3AF266BB8376@mac.com> <0A74019A-C4A0-4138-8416-C695DD21F898@livecode.com> Message-ID: <17889321c90.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Who could object to an app named Testeroni? I wish I'd thought of it. Thanks also for the lesson, now we have something to point to if the issue comes up again. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On March 31, 2021 6:01:38 AM Heather Laine via use-livecode wrote: > I thought at this point, I could make a useful contribution to this thread: > > https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1386097-i-get-a-warning-about-malicious-software-when-opening-a-livecode-standalone-on-mac > > > My thanks to Scott for the handy test app, I hope you do not mind me using > it to create this lesson... > > Best Regards, > > Heather > > Heather Laine > Customer Services Manager > LiveCode Ltd > www.livecode.com > > > >> On 30 Mar 2021, at 00:53, Roger Guay via use-livecode >> wrote: >> >> Thanks for your kind offer, Alex, but I think the process of opening an >> unblessed standalone for OS 11 has been solved. See my previous post in >> response to Scott. Turns out to be fairly simple . . . at least for this >> iteration of OS. In short, just right-click 2 times. It may also be >> important to do this from the Downloads folder. Not sure about that tho >> >> Roger >> >>> On Mar 29, 2021, at 3:29 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> On 29/03/2021 22:11, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: >>>> Thanks, Alex. Unfortunately it comes up with the ?No Entry? sign on this >>>> machine. >>>> >>>> Roger >>> >>> I'm not exactly sure what message this is, or when it happens. But this >>> sounds like "Fortunately, ..." because I think it means you have an app >>> that hits a brickwall of permission on your own machine - so we can look at >>> it in more detail without bothering your wife's many multiple windows. >>> >>> It's hard to describe these things in words - hence my suggestion of a Zoom >>> call where you can screen-share and let others watch (and suggest) while >>> you try it. If you want to try that with just me, please do (I'm >>> unavailable for the next hour, but free from approx 00:30 - 01:30 UK time), >>> or tomorrow almost any time, given some notice). >>> Or contact me off-list and we'll find a time. >>> Or suggest a time and someone else might be able to join in and help. >>> >>> There are lots of motivated people wanting to help - or to find out what >>> they're going to need to tell their own users when those users upgrade to a >>> later MacOS. :-) >>> >>> Alex. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Mar 31 13:45:07 2021 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2021 10:45:07 -0700 Subject: [bug] strange memory leak in LC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Andre Garzia wrote: > The stack that was opened is a project that has many mainstacks in > it?s stackfiles. Some of those stacks make use of the browser > widget... Don't know if this may be related to the leak, but worth heeding anyway - apparently WebKit has some serious issues, including an uncommonly nasty vulnerability: Apple releases emergency update for iPhones, iPads, and Apple Watch ... The vulnerability, discovered by Google's Threat Analysis Group, affects Apple's WebKit browser engine, and what makes this an urgent update is the fact that Apple claims the vulnerability is being actively exploited. https://www.zdnet.com/article/apple-releases-emergency-update-for-iphones-ipads-and-apple-watch/ -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From irog at mac.com Wed Mar 31 14:03:13 2021 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2021 11:03:13 -0700 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: <49FE5CC5-8281-4BC5-8276-C0C061F9BD8D@mac.com> References: <5F43B66A-5D41-4D5A-B818-9AFDCBDD9083@icloud.com> <2FE10EA9-E251-4111-84B5-279A10CFCEAE@starfirelighting.com> <1D44F710-74D2-47B1-8517-8D5AA079668E@mac.com> <7b209c72-6763-8575-b82b-58a58e5d8719@tweedly.net> <08D772F4-7023-48BB-8020-503AB1426735@mac.com> <28afa73a-6d35-6ded-1779-f1432f815685@tweedly.net> <1638D0EB-BDE0-4F54-BB16-940B195C0825@mac.com> <80f8ff83-aa57-ebcf-c92f-59c6a7bf28ff@tweedly.net> <389B0139-47B2-4ECC-91C4-3AF266BB8376@mac.com> <0A74019A-C4A0-4138-8416-C695DD21F898@livecode.com> <49FE5CC5-8281-4BC5-8276-C0C061F9BD8D@mac.com> Message-ID: <59E8F258-5BB8-48CE-A7DF-75DCE100CD66@mac.com> Here is the Forums entry: > https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=35653 Thanks, Roger > On Mar 31, 2021, at 8:49 AM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: > > Many thanks Heather and Scott for these lessons. Unfortunately they don?t apply to OS Big Sur. In fact, it was because I initially thought that apple closed this door to opening standalones (SA) in Big Sur that I raised the alarm here. > > Turns out the process in Big Sur is even easier, involving just a few ?opening? clicks to actually open a SA which I discovered with the help of Scott and others here. The easiest way to describe it is to Right or Control click on the unzipped SA twice. The second time will add an ?Open? button to the dialog box that will indeed open it. > > There may be some variations of this that might work as well, but the second mouseClick on the SA must be a Right or Control click that brings up the context menu. > > I will try to get a short lesson with screen captures to the Forum soon. > > > HTH and thanks to everyone who participated in this thread. > > Roger > > >> On Mar 31, 2021, at 3:59 AM, Heather Laine via use-livecode wrote: >> >> I thought at this point, I could make a useful contribution to this thread: >> >> https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1386097-i-get-a-warning-about-malicious-software-when-opening-a-livecode-standalone-on-mac >> >> My thanks to Scott for the handy test app, I hope you do not mind me using it to create this lesson... >> >> Best Regards, >> >> Heather >> >> Heather Laine >> Customer Services Manager >> LiveCode Ltd >> www.livecode.com >> >> >> >>> On 30 Mar 2021, at 00:53, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> Thanks for your kind offer, Alex, but I think the process of opening an unblessed standalone for OS 11 has been solved. See my previous post in response to Scott. Turns out to be fairly simple . . . at least for this iteration of OS. In short, just right-click 2 times. It may also be important to do this from the Downloads folder. Not sure about that tho >>> >>> Roger >>> >>>> On Mar 29, 2021, at 3:29 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> On 29/03/2021 22:11, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: >>>>> Thanks, Alex. Unfortunately it comes up with the ?No Entry? sign on this machine. >>>>> >>>>> Roger >>>> >>>> I'm not exactly sure what message this is, or when it happens. But this sounds like "Fortunately, ..." because I think it means you have an app that hits a brickwall of permission on your own machine - so we can look at it in more detail without bothering your wife's many multiple windows. >>>> >>>> It's hard to describe these things in words - hence my suggestion of a Zoom call where you can screen-share and let others watch (and suggest) while you try it. If you want to try that with just me, please do (I'm unavailable for the next hour, but free from approx 00:30 - 01:30 UK time), or tomorrow almost any time, given some notice). >>>> Or contact me off-list and we'll find a time. >>>> Or suggest a time and someone else might be able to join in and help. >>>> >>>> There are lots of motivated people wanting to help - or to find out what they're going to need to tell their own users when those users upgrade to a later MacOS. :-) >>>> >>>> Alex. >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Mar 31 15:29:45 2021 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2021 12:29:45 -0700 Subject: "tsnet (1) Received HTTP/0.9 when not allowed"? Message-ID: I have an LC app that recently started reporting this error when calling a web service we wrote: tsnet (1) Received HTTP/0.9 when not allowed Searching around the web I see many varied descriptions of how one might remedy that, but none seem to fit our circumstance. Anyone else seen this? What was needed to resolve it? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Wed Mar 31 16:25:19 2021 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2021 22:25:19 +0200 Subject: "tsnet (1) Received HTTP/0.9 when not allowed"? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <57BFD4EE-8F26-44D7-A8C3-DC35CDB29926@m-r-d.de> Richard, was there a change in the configuration of your web server recently? Is your web service using php or LC server? I am not sure if this is of help, but there is a debug stack available for tsNET. Maybe the debug information gives you some more information. https://downloads.techstrategies.com.au/tsnet/debug_liburl.livecode Matthias - Matthias Rebbe Life Is Too Short For Boring Code > Am 31.03.2021 um 21:29 schrieb Richard Gaskin via use-livecode : > > I have an LC app that recently started reporting this error when calling a web service we wrote: > > tsnet (1) Received HTTP/0.9 when not allowed > > > Searching around the web I see many varied descriptions of how one might remedy that, but none seem to fit our circumstance. > > Anyone else seen this? What was needed to resolve it? > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From scott at elementarysoftware.com Wed Mar 31 17:30:06 2021 From: scott at elementarysoftware.com (scott at elementarysoftware.com) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2021 14:30:06 -0700 Subject: How to get the path to the 'My Livecode' or the plugins folder? In-Reply-To: <80D17E27-B6F3-41E9-B9ED-B2A4D980F7EA@m-r-d.de> References: <80D17E27-B6F3-41E9-B9ED-B2A4D980F7EA@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <014717BE-0382-44C5-8C03-48B897BDA245@elementarysoftware.com> Matthias, when I didn?t see you at the Zoom ?coffee break? during Panos' Livecode Advanced course (on just this topic) I assumed that it was because you were using that time to create such a tool. :- ) ? Scott > On Mar 31, 2021, at 9:48 AM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: > > Thanks Bob for the "reminder" about Devolution and its custom1 buttons. > > > I needed it to load a plugin right after i've built a standalone. Yesterdays discussion "New idea for Standalones" led me there. > I want to automatically sign and notarize a MacOS standalone without any additional user interaction right away after it was built. > > For this i am using the standaloneSaved message. In this handler i am calling/opening my NotarizeHelper stack, give all needed information to the stack (just the path to the app bundle and the desired action) and start the notarization process. So no need anymore to do this manually after the standalone build process. ;) > > This works now w/o a problem. I am now enhancing the script to code sign also Windows standalones under macOS using osslsigncode. I have alreay an help app for this, but i would prefer to get it done also right after the standalone building process. > > So if i get/have this working, I can build standalones and code sign / notarize them with only one click. > > Regards, > > > - > Matthias Rebbe > Life Is Too Short For Boring Code > >> Am 31.03.2021 um 02:25 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode : >> >> Which is what you have to do to add a plugin to Devolution. Someone turned me on to this: >> >> eg. I have in the Custom 1 script: >> >> on mouseUp >> -- Your custom code goes here: >> put revenvironmentuserpluginspath() & "/" into tPluginsPath >> put tPluginsPath & "Navigator.rev" into tFilePath >> go stack tFilePath >> go stack (the defaultStack) >> end mouseUp >> >> >> On Mar 29, 2021, at 4:40 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode > wrote: >> >> On 3/29/21 4:06 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: >> Dear all, >> is there a way to get the path to the 'My Livecode' or the 'Plugins' folder? >> Searched now for more than 40 minutes and did not find anything about it? >> Is there maybe a hidden variable / property available for this? >> >> Not well documented, but... >> >> put revEnvironmentUserPluginsPath() >> >> -- >> Mark Wieder >> ahsoftware at gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Wed Mar 31 17:34:31 2021 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2021 23:34:31 +0200 Subject: How to get the path to the 'My Livecode' or the plugins folder? In-Reply-To: <014717BE-0382-44C5-8C03-48B897BDA245@elementarysoftware.com> References: <80D17E27-B6F3-41E9-B9ED-B2A4D980F7EA@m-r-d.de> <014717BE-0382-44C5-8C03-48B897BDA245@elementarysoftware.com> Message-ID: <30A6551A-2D35-4FD6-A4A9-24D1F9A9F2D6@m-r-d.de> Believe me, it took a little bit longer than just a coffee break. ;) - Matthias Rebbe Life Is Too Short For Boring Code > Am 31.03.2021 um 23:30 schrieb scott--- via use-livecode : > > Matthias, when I didn?t see you at the Zoom ?coffee break? during Panos' Livecode Advanced course (on just this topic) I assumed that it was because you were using that time to create such a tool. :- ) > > ? > Scott > >> On Mar 31, 2021, at 9:48 AM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Thanks Bob for the "reminder" about Devolution and its custom1 buttons. >> >> >> I needed it to load a plugin right after i've built a standalone. Yesterdays discussion "New idea for Standalones" led me there. >> I want to automatically sign and notarize a MacOS standalone without any additional user interaction right away after it was built. >> >> For this i am using the standaloneSaved message. In this handler i am calling/opening my NotarizeHelper stack, give all needed information to the stack (just the path to the app bundle and the desired action) and start the notarization process. So no need anymore to do this manually after the standalone build process. ;) >> >> This works now w/o a problem. I am now enhancing the script to code sign also Windows standalones under macOS using osslsigncode. I have alreay an help app for this, but i would prefer to get it done also right after the standalone building process. >> >> So if i get/have this working, I can build standalones and code sign / notarize them with only one click. >> >> Regards, >> >> >> - >> Matthias Rebbe >> Life Is Too Short For Boring Code >> >>> Am 31.03.2021 um 02:25 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode : >>> >>> Which is what you have to do to add a plugin to Devolution. Someone turned me on to this: >>> >>> eg. I have in the Custom 1 script: >>> >>> on mouseUp >>> -- Your custom code goes here: >>> put revenvironmentuserpluginspath() & "/" into tPluginsPath >>> put tPluginsPath & "Navigator.rev" into tFilePath >>> go stack tFilePath >>> go stack (the defaultStack) >>> end mouseUp >>> >>> >>> On Mar 29, 2021, at 4:40 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode > wrote: >>> >>> On 3/29/21 4:06 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote: >>> Dear all, >>> is there a way to get the path to the 'My Livecode' or the 'Plugins' folder? >>> Searched now for more than 40 minutes and did not find anything about it? >>> Is there maybe a hidden variable / property available for this? >>> >>> Not well documented, but... >>> >>> put revEnvironmentUserPluginsPath() >>> >>> -- >>> Mark Wieder >>> ahsoftware at gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From hlowe at me.com Wed Mar 31 18:32:25 2021 From: hlowe at me.com (HENRY LOWE) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2021 15:32:25 -0700 Subject: TreeView Widget Drag and Drop Support In-Reply-To: References: <098CBE76-9748-48D5-A034-1EFD15FE7125@me.com> Message-ID: <19D7975C-9509-4F9A-B4B0-3F6B8FADEA56@me.com> Thank you Sean for the detailed recipe. Henry > On Mar 30, 2021, at 5:06 PM, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi Henry, > > I often take the widgets, like TreeView, and add in other message > responders like this. It's real easy to do? > > Just make a copy of the widget folder from the LC Tools Folder > (Livecode.app/Contents/Tools/Extensions/com.livecode.widget.treeview) and > into your own Livecode extensions folder (mine is in ~/Documents/My > LiveCode/Extensions/ or my dropbox folder somewhere). Rename the folder > from com.livecode. to com.mine. or something. Then open treeview.lcb in > BBEdit or TextEdit, etc, from the copy folder. Line 88, change widget > com.livecode.widget.treeview to use the new folder name you gave. > > Next, search for 'onMouseUp'. you should find: > > public handler onMouseLeave() returns nothing > put 0 into mHoverRow > redraw all > end handler > > Before that in the code, add in your other handlers (OnDragDrop, etc) using > the same syntax. No need to use the put or redraw messages of course. Look > in the dictionary, lcb section, to check the handler names to use. > > Then, open the manifest.xml from the same folder. Line 2, again > change com.livecode.widget.treeview to use the new folder name > and Line 3 to something a little more unique. Then again search for > onmouseup. You will see: > > > > Again, follow the syntax adding in the lines for the handler. > > Look through the other files in the folder and change if you wish but it is > not essential. > > Now in LC, open the extension builder and use the 'open existing..' button > to navigate to the folder you created. Then, from the bottom, the install > button will build it into the toolbar. > > Now you have a customised version. Make sure you add your replacement > widget in the standaloneSettings>Inclusions before building your > standalones. > > All the best > > Sean > > On Wed, 31 Mar 2021 at 00:26, HENRY LOWE via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> I am using the LC TreeView widget to implement a sidebar containing a >> hierarchical menu in a MacOS app. The widget seems well suited for this >> purpose and I have successfully created a facsimile of the standard sidebar >> that is used increasingly in both MacOS and iPadOS apps. However, I need to >> drag rows from a data grid table to a TreeView widget row in the sidebar >> but the current implementation of the TreeView widget does not report the >> TreeView widget row (element) where the drop occurred. A TreeView widget >> message, such as 'ActionDragDrop pPath? where pPath is the path to the >> element that was ?dropped on? would be incredibly helpful. I have >> implemented a workaround method off drag and drop to the widget but it >> occasionally breaks. >> >> Looking at the LiveCode Builder documentation, widgets can support the >> following messages related to drag and drop functionality: >> >> OnDragDrop, On DragEnter, OnDragFinish, OnDragLeave, On DragMove, On >> DragStart. >> >> These messages are not currently supported in the TreeView widget LCB >> source. Adding them would make this incredibly useful widget even more >> powerful. >> >> Another issue that I encountered when using the TreeView widget to >> implement a sidebar hierarchical menu was that clicking on a row in the >> TreeView widget toggles the row?s hilite state - click on an item and it >> hilites, click on it again and it unhilites. While this may be standard >> behavior for a list, in a menu clicking on a hilited row should not change >> the row?s hilite state. It should remain hilited. Only clicking on another >> row (menu item) should unhilite a row and then hilite the selected row. It >> would be great to have a ?togglehilite? TreeView property. If true the >> TreeView would toggle a row?s hilite state as it does now, while if false >> it would not. >> >> Any thoughts? >> >> Henry >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From hlowe at me.com Wed Mar 31 18:32:39 2021 From: hlowe at me.com (HENRY LOWE) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2021 15:32:39 -0700 Subject: TreeView Widget Drag and Drop Support In-Reply-To: References: <098CBE76-9748-48D5-A034-1EFD15FE7125@me.com> Message-ID: Thanks Brian. I am handling the ?on DragDrop? message in the widget?s script but on completing the drop there is no way to determine which row in the TreeView widget the data was dropped into. Ideally when in DragDrop mode the widget would automatically hilite the row that the mouse is currently over (standard drag and drop behavior) so that when the user finally releases the mouse button the row that was the drop target would be available in 'the hilitedElement? property of the widget. Currently I am having to try to determine which row was dropped on using the mouseLoc to calculate which row I am in. On the second issue, I tried using hiliteChanged message but could not get it to work. Do you have an example script to do this? Henry > On Mar 30, 2021, at 5:06 PM, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi Henry, > > I often take the widgets, like TreeView, and add in other message > responders like this. It's real easy to do? > > Just make a copy of the widget folder from the LC Tools Folder > (Livecode.app/Contents/Tools/Extensions/com.livecode.widget.treeview) and > into your own Livecode extensions folder (mine is in ~/Documents/My > LiveCode/Extensions/ or my dropbox folder somewhere). Rename the folder > from com.livecode. to com.mine. or something. Then open treeview.lcb in > BBEdit or TextEdit, etc, from the copy folder. Line 88, change widget > com.livecode.widget.treeview to use the new folder name you gave. > > Next, search for 'onMouseUp'. you should find: > > public handler onMouseLeave() returns nothing > put 0 into mHoverRow > redraw all > end handler > > Before that in the code, add in your other handlers (OnDragDrop, etc) using > the same syntax. No need to use the put or redraw messages of course. Look > in the dictionary, lcb section, to check the handler names to use. > > Then, open the manifest.xml from the same folder. Line 2, again > change com.livecode.widget.treeview to use the new folder name > and Line 3 to something a little more unique. Then again search for > onmouseup. You will see: > > > > Again, follow the syntax adding in the lines for the handler. > > Look through the other files in the folder and change if you wish but it is > not essential. > > Now in LC, open the extension builder and use the 'open existing..' button > to navigate to the folder you created. Then, from the bottom, the install > button will build it into the toolbar. > > Now you have a customised version. Make sure you add your replacement > widget in the standaloneSettings>Inclusions before building your > standalones. > > All the best > > Sean > > On Wed, 31 Mar 2021 at 00:26, HENRY LOWE via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> I am using the LC TreeView widget to implement a sidebar containing a >> hierarchical menu in a MacOS app. The widget seems well suited for this >> purpose and I have successfully created a facsimile of the standard sidebar >> that is used increasingly in both MacOS and iPadOS apps. However, I need to >> drag rows from a data grid table to a TreeView widget row in the sidebar >> but the current implementation of the TreeView widget does not report the >> TreeView widget row (element) where the drop occurred. A TreeView widget >> message, such as 'ActionDragDrop pPath? where pPath is the path to the >> element that was ?dropped on? would be incredibly helpful. I have >> implemented a workaround method off drag and drop to the widget but it >> occasionally breaks. >> >> Looking at the LiveCode Builder documentation, widgets can support the >> following messages related to drag and drop functionality: >> >> OnDragDrop, On DragEnter, OnDragFinish, OnDragLeave, On DragMove, On >> DragStart. >> >> These messages are not currently supported in the TreeView widget LCB >> source. Adding them would make this incredibly useful widget even more >> powerful. >> >> Another issue that I encountered when using the TreeView widget to >> implement a sidebar hierarchical menu was that clicking on a row in the >> TreeView widget toggles the row?s hilite state - click on an item and it >> hilites, click on it again and it unhilites. While this may be standard >> behavior for a list, in a menu clicking on a hilited row should not change >> the row?s hilite state. It should remain hilited. Only clicking on another >> row (menu item) should unhilite a row and then hilite the selected row. It >> would be great to have a ?togglehilite? TreeView property. If true the >> TreeView would toggle a row?s hilite state as it does now, while if false >> it would not. >> >> Any thoughts? >> >> Henry >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From irog at mac.com Wed Mar 31 18:36:35 2021 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2021 15:36:35 -0700 Subject: New(?) Idea for Standalones In-Reply-To: <49FE5CC5-8281-4BC5-8276-C0C061F9BD8D@mac.com> References: <5F43B66A-5D41-4D5A-B818-9AFDCBDD9083@icloud.com> <2FE10EA9-E251-4111-84B5-279A10CFCEAE@starfirelighting.com> <1D44F710-74D2-47B1-8517-8D5AA079668E@mac.com> <7b209c72-6763-8575-b82b-58a58e5d8719@tweedly.net> <08D772F4-7023-48BB-8020-503AB1426735@mac.com> <28afa73a-6d35-6ded-1779-f1432f815685@tweedly.net> <1638D0EB-BDE0-4F54-BB16-940B195C0825@mac.com> <80f8ff83-aa57-ebcf-c92f-59c6a7bf28ff@tweedly.net> <389B0139-47B2-4ECC-91C4-3AF266BB8376@mac.com> <0A74019A-C4A0-4138-8416-C695DD21F898@livecode.com> <49FE5CC5-8281-4BC5-8276-C0C061F9BD8D@mac.com> Message-ID: <333A6E9D-50E1-46D6-AB81-C6841B24FC5C@mac.com> My apologies to everyone! The LC Lesson that Heather referred us to does indeed work in Big Sur as well. My mistake was thinking that the ?Open Anyway? in the System Prefs never appears in Big Sur. But it certainly does . . . after clicking ?OK? on the first dialog box. Thanks to Bob Earp for pointing that out to me. Roger > On Mar 31, 2021, at 8:49 AM, Roger Guay via use-livecode wrote: > > Many thanks Heather and Scott for these lessons. Unfortunately they don?t apply to OS Big Sur. In fact, it was because I initially thought that apple closed this door to opening standalones (SA) in Big Sur that I raised the alarm here. From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Mar 31 19:35:04 2021 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2021 16:35:04 -0700 Subject: "tsnet (1) Received HTTP/0.9 when not allowed"? In-Reply-To: <57BFD4EE-8F26-44D7-A8C3-DC35CDB29926@m-r-d.de> References: <57BFD4EE-8F26-44D7-A8C3-DC35CDB29926@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: Matthias wrote: > was there a change in the configuration of your web server recently? > Is your web service using php or LC server? LC Server. Hosting likely had changes, since this app has been in production for a long time without issue. I believe the change most significant here is business success: Dreamhost apparently has a lot of customers and runs pretty packed shared servers these days (reason #48 why I prefer VPSes). I'm guessing part of this is a noisy neighbor problem. But I'd guess at least some of this is the interaction between Dreamhost's resource quotas and LC's wasteful boot process, in which most of the resources it consumes are for font init that I'd guess 99.9% of server scripts never need: https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14115 Another contributing factor may be the curl version tsNet has embedded. Some of the discussions I came across reference older curl versions that assume HTTP 0.9 by default and misreport that under certain error conditions if header info isn't parsed just so. Is tsNet's curl version documented somewhere? Does LC keep tsNet updated with the latest curl with each release? > I am not sure if this is of help, but there is a debug stack > available for tsNET. Maybe the debug information gives you > some more information. > > https://downloads.techstrategies.com.au/tsnet/debug_liburl.livecode Thanks. It's using libURLSetStatusCallback and libURLSetLogField, so it's more or less like the one I'd already built into my tooling. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au Wed Mar 31 19:37:12 2021 From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2021 10:37:12 +1100 Subject: Resources folder on mac, and the good old days In-Reply-To: <64472DF4-F901-4815-82B5-78F553C951E0@icloud.com> References: <71C370F3-9A3E-478D-9B10-1B74156ACA69@optusnet.com.au> <64472DF4-F901-4815-82B5-78F553C951E0@icloud.com> Message-ID: <88B56ADB-D9A0-4B56-A2F3-E62D60A34E8D@optusnet.com.au> Interesting, and clever! But how do they do that? Since the app can?t be running at the time it is moved to the trash, the code can?t be in the app itself. Which means they must install *another piece of code*, probably a daemon, which is running all the time; which would be necessary anyway for a security watchdog of course. Then does this but of code uninstall itself? Possible I guess, the daemon file itself is not open when it is running so it could be moved to the trash and the daemon wasn?t killed it would just stop running the next time you reboot. Of course for an LC standalone to use such an uninstall strategy you would need and Installer; and I don?t think it is really appropriate to have an ordinary app to have a daemon running all the time. > On 31 Mar 2021, at 9:42 pm, Keith Martin wrote: > > >> On Mar 29, 2021, at 11:22 PM, Neville Smythe via use-livecode wrote: >> >> 3. There is no need for Installer code, or more problematic, and with a whiff of sulphur to sensitive old-hand Mac user noses, an Uninstaller > > Hah! Yes, uninstallers should ideally never be required. I'm testing a selection of macOS security tools at the moment (for a magazine, not just for fun!) and I really like how ? to give the most recent example ? Avira Free Security and Avira Prime (with help from the OS of course) will ask, when the app is moved to the trash, if they should take their system extensions with them. Polite, civilised, Mac-like. ? > > Keith > Keith Martin > 360 media specialist http://PanoramaPhotographer.com > Contact and info http://thatkeith.com > +44 (0)7909541365 > > > >> From brian at milby7.com Wed Mar 31 20:12:46 2021 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2021 20:12:46 -0400 Subject: TreeView Widget Drag and Drop Support In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F45D67A-FE10-471B-B208-9261137491DD@milby7.com> Check out this script on GitHub: https://github.com/Himalayan-Academy/Siva-Siva-App/blob/df93a63e40153df6ec4bd29a8571bb0c8a99c2a9/modules/stories/behavior_Stories.livecodescript#L230 The card had a tree widget with 2 levels. The actual items to select are at the second level. It looks like the drag Enter, Leave, Move, and Drop messages need to be handled like the mouse messages (for changing the highlight). Sent from my iPhone > On Mar 31, 2021, at 6:34 PM, HENRY LOWE via use-livecode wrote: > > ?Thanks Brian. I am handling the ?on DragDrop? message in the widget?s script but on completing the drop there is no way to determine which row in the TreeView widget the data was dropped into. Ideally when in DragDrop mode the widget would automatically hilite the row that the mouse is currently over (standard drag and drop behavior) so that when the user finally releases the mouse button the row that was the drop target would be available in 'the hilitedElement? property of the widget. Currently I am having to try to determine which row was dropped on using the mouseLoc to calculate which row I am in. > > On the second issue, I tried using hiliteChanged message but could not get it to work. Do you have an example script to do this? > > Henry > >> On Mar 30, 2021, at 5:06 PM, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Hi Henry, >> >> I often take the widgets, like TreeView, and add in other message >> responders like this. It's real easy to do? >> >> Just make a copy of the widget folder from the LC Tools Folder >> (Livecode.app/Contents/Tools/Extensions/com.livecode.widget.treeview) and >> into your own Livecode extensions folder (mine is in ~/Documents/My >> LiveCode/Extensions/ or my dropbox folder somewhere). Rename the folder >> from com.livecode. to com.mine. or something. Then open treeview.lcb in >> BBEdit or TextEdit, etc, from the copy folder. Line 88, change widget >> com.livecode.widget.treeview to use the new folder name you gave. >> >> Next, search for 'onMouseUp'. you should find: >> >> public handler onMouseLeave() returns nothing >> put 0 into mHoverRow >> redraw all >> end handler >> >> Before that in the code, add in your other handlers (OnDragDrop, etc) using >> the same syntax. No need to use the put or redraw messages of course. Look >> in the dictionary, lcb section, to check the handler names to use. >> >> Then, open the manifest.xml from the same folder. Line 2, again >> change com.livecode.widget.treeview to use the new folder name >> and Line 3 to something a little more unique. Then again search for >> onmouseup. You will see: >> >> >> >> Again, follow the syntax adding in the lines for the handler. >> >> Look through the other files in the folder and change if you wish but it is >> not essential. >> >> Now in LC, open the extension builder and use the 'open existing..' button >> to navigate to the folder you created. Then, from the bottom, the install >> button will build it into the toolbar. >> >> Now you have a customised version. Make sure you add your replacement >> widget in the standaloneSettings>Inclusions before building your >> standalones. >> >> All the best >> >> Sean >> >>> On Wed, 31 Mar 2021 at 00:26, HENRY LOWE via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> >>> I am using the LC TreeView widget to implement a sidebar containing a >>> hierarchical menu in a MacOS app. The widget seems well suited for this >>> purpose and I have successfully created a facsimile of the standard sidebar >>> that is used increasingly in both MacOS and iPadOS apps. However, I need to >>> drag rows from a data grid table to a TreeView widget row in the sidebar >>> but the current implementation of the TreeView widget does not report the >>> TreeView widget row (element) where the drop occurred. A TreeView widget >>> message, such as 'ActionDragDrop pPath? where pPath is the path to the >>> element that was ?dropped on? would be incredibly helpful. I have >>> implemented a workaround method off drag and drop to the widget but it >>> occasionally breaks. >>> >>> Looking at the LiveCode Builder documentation, widgets can support the >>> following messages related to drag and drop functionality: >>> >>> OnDragDrop, On DragEnter, OnDragFinish, OnDragLeave, On DragMove, On >>> DragStart. >>> >>> These messages are not currently supported in the TreeView widget LCB >>> source. Adding them would make this incredibly useful widget even more >>> powerful. >>> >>> Another issue that I encountered when using the TreeView widget to >>> implement a sidebar hierarchical menu was that clicking on a row in the >>> TreeView widget toggles the row?s hilite state - click on an item and it >>> hilites, click on it again and it unhilites. While this may be standard >>> behavior for a list, in a menu clicking on a hilited row should not change >>> the row?s hilite state. It should remain hilited. Only clicking on another >>> row (menu item) should unhilite a row and then hilite the selected row. It >>> would be great to have a ?togglehilite? TreeView property. If true the >>> TreeView would toggle a row?s hilite state as it does now, while if false >>> it would not. >>> >>> Any thoughts? >>> >>> Henry >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From charles at techstrategies.com.au Wed Mar 31 23:25:05 2021 From: charles at techstrategies.com.au (Charles Warwick) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2021 14:25:05 +1100 Subject: "tsnet (1) Received HTTP/0.9 when not allowed"? Message-ID: ?Hi Richard, The curl version that is used in tsNet is regularly updated. The latest version of tsNet is using curl 7.74.0. My understanding of that particular issue is that if the first data line that is received back from the HTTP server doesn't match an appropriate response, it will assume HTTP/0.9. Is there a test URL you can post that shows this problem so I can see what is coming back from the server? Can you post what you are getting in the libURL debug? Also, have you tried a version of LC that has a different version of tsNet included - just in case this happens to be a new bug in the curl library. Thanks, Charles > On 1 Apr 2021, at 10:37 am, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > ?Matthias wrote: > >> was there a change in the configuration of your web server recently? >> Is your web service using php or LC server? > > LC Server. Hosting likely had changes, since this app has been in production for a long time without issue. > > I believe the change most significant here is business success: Dreamhost apparently has a lot of customers and runs pretty packed shared servers these days (reason #48 why I prefer VPSes). I'm guessing part of this is a noisy neighbor problem. > > But I'd guess at least some of this is the interaction between Dreamhost's resource quotas and LC's wasteful boot process, in which most of the resources it consumes are for font init that I'd guess 99.9% of server scripts never need: > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14115 > > Another contributing factor may be the curl version tsNet has embedded. Some of the discussions I came across reference older curl versions that assume HTTP 0.9 by default and misreport that under certain error conditions if header info isn't parsed just so. > > Is tsNet's curl version documented somewhere? > Does LC keep tsNet updated with the latest curl with each release? > > >> I am not sure if this is of help, but there is a debug stack >> available for tsNET. Maybe the debug information gives you >> some more information. >> https://downloads.techstrategies.com.au/tsnet/debug_liburl.livecode > > Thanks. It's using libURLSetStatusCallback and libURLSetLogField, so it's more or less like the one I'd already built into my tooling. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode