From sundown at pacifier.com  Fri May  1 07:11:53 2020
From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2020 04:11:53 -0700
Subject: sqLite delete memory database
In-Reply-To: <00D27339-50F1-4028-9B91-91C5745B6F1C@iotecdigital.com>
References: <00D27339-50F1-4028-9B91-91C5745B6F1C@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <CDCBEB40-61D2-4809-A0F1-231DA237A6C3@pacifier.com>

I have been testing SQLite 3 using the command line interface and it
looks to me like SQLite is designed to securely delete the memory of
the database automatically after it closes the database.

I could be wrong but if you can?t read the memory it is probably already
securely deleted when the database was closed.

JB


> On Apr 30, 2020, at 6:43 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I can create memory databases, but how do I delete it once created? revdb_disconnect still leaves it in memory. revCloseDatabase is just a synonym of revdb_disconnect. 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 




From tom at makeshyft.com  Fri May  1 15:25:07 2020
From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2020 15:25:07 -0400
Subject: sqLite delete memory database
In-Reply-To: <CDCBEB40-61D2-4809-A0F1-231DA237A6C3@pacifier.com>
References: <00D27339-50F1-4028-9B91-91C5745B6F1C@iotecdigital.com>
 <CDCBEB40-61D2-4809-A0F1-231DA237A6C3@pacifier.com>
Message-ID: <CAPzQJL+KSQ-EgrM4NODszM2zrkdJWvvj-16xcFkBOetzX2szZw@mail.gmail.com>

hmmm....you can try set the pragma to zero out flag (i am pretty sure there
is one) .. and drop all tables on close?

its strange that it does not 'delete' from memory.  Are we sure on
this?..... is this dependent on the garbage collector in LC?





On Fri, May 1, 2020 at 7:14 AM JB via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I have been testing SQLite 3 using the command line interface and it
> looks to me like SQLite is designed to securely delete the memory of
> the database automatically after it closes the database.
>
> I could be wrong but if you can?t read the memory it is probably already
> securely deleted when the database was closed.
>
> JB
>
>
> > On Apr 30, 2020, at 6:43 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > I can create memory databases, but how do I delete it once created?
> revdb_disconnect still leaves it in memory. revCloseDatabase is just a
> synonym of revdb_disconnect.
> >
> > Bob S
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
Tom Glod
Founder & Developer
MakeShyft R.D.A (www.makeshyft.com)
Mobile:647.562.9411


From phil at pdslabs.net  Fri May  1 15:39:27 2020
From: phil at pdslabs.net (Phil Davis)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2020 12:39:27 -0700
Subject: sqLite delete memory database
In-Reply-To: <CAPzQJL+KSQ-EgrM4NODszM2zrkdJWvvj-16xcFkBOetzX2szZw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <00D27339-50F1-4028-9B91-91C5745B6F1C@iotecdigital.com>
 <CDCBEB40-61D2-4809-A0F1-231DA237A6C3@pacifier.com>
 <CAPzQJL+KSQ-EgrM4NODszM2zrkdJWvvj-16xcFkBOetzX2szZw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <68af0c44-a65c-e78a-6e10-68cbfac98ea6@pdslabs.net>

Is there an LC function that clears trash from memory? Does "hasMemory"? 
If not, it seems like that would be a nice feature.

Phil Davis


On 5/1/20 12:25 PM, Tom Glod via use-livecode wrote:
> hmmm....you can try set the pragma to zero out flag (i am pretty sure there
> is one) .. and drop all tables on close?
>
> its strange that it does not 'delete' from memory.  Are we sure on
> this?..... is this dependent on the garbage collector in LC?
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, May 1, 2020 at 7:14 AM JB via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> I have been testing SQLite 3 using the command line interface and it
>> looks to me like SQLite is designed to securely delete the memory of
>> the database automatically after it closes the database.
>>
>> I could be wrong but if you can?t read the memory it is probably already
>> securely deleted when the database was closed.
>>
>> JB
>>
>>
>>> On Apr 30, 2020, at 6:43 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> I can create memory databases, but how do I delete it once created?
>> revdb_disconnect still leaves it in memory. revCloseDatabase is just a
>> synonym of revdb_disconnect.
>>> Bob S
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>

-- 
Phil Davis
503-307-4363




From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Fri May  1 16:17:00 2020
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2020 15:17:00 -0500
Subject: FormattedHeight
Message-ID: <4f7c74d3-ab8e-c755-215b-f3d09c81f7ac@hyperactivesw.com>

Is the formattedHeight of a group broken for anyone else? LC 9.6dp4 (and possibly dp3).

I'm a little frantic.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Fri May  1 16:40:56 2020
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2020 16:40:56 -0400
Subject: FormattedHeight
In-Reply-To: <4f7c74d3-ab8e-c755-215b-f3d09c81f7ac@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <4f7c74d3-ab8e-c755-215b-f3d09c81f7ac@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <004201d61ff8$d3aed850$7b0c88f0$@net>

Did a quick tests on both 9.0.5 and 9.6dp4 it seems to work the same. What
do you see wrong?

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net

-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf
Of J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
Sent: Friday, May 01, 2020 4:17 PM
To: LiveCode Mailing List
Cc: J. Landman Gay
Subject: FormattedHeight

Is the formattedHeight of a group broken for anyone else? LC 9.6dp4 (and
possibly dp3).

I'm a little frantic.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com

_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From scott at elementarysoftware.com  Fri May  1 17:45:55 2020
From: scott at elementarysoftware.com (scott at elementarysoftware.com)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2020 14:45:55 -0700
Subject: FormattedHeight
In-Reply-To: <4f7c74d3-ab8e-c755-215b-f3d09c81f7ac@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <4f7c74d3-ab8e-c755-215b-f3d09c81f7ac@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <95C323E5-48F5-4312-A7CD-CEEF3356BC6B@elementarysoftware.com>

Are you exceeding the maximum vertical scroll?
(I haven?t run into this recently but I believe at one point the vScroll of groups was limited at the engine level to 32780)

Scott Morrow

Elementary Software
(Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
web       https://elementarysoftware.com/
email     scott at elementarysoftware.com
booth    1-800-615-0867
------------------------------------------------------



> On May 1, 2020, at 1:17 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Is the formattedHeight of a group broken for anyone else? LC 9.6dp4 (and possibly dp3).
> 
> I'm a little frantic.
> 
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode











From sundown at pacifier.com  Fri May  1 20:42:36 2020
From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2020 17:42:36 -0700
Subject: sqLite delete memory database
In-Reply-To: <68af0c44-a65c-e78a-6e10-68cbfac98ea6@pdslabs.net>
References: <00D27339-50F1-4028-9B91-91C5745B6F1C@iotecdigital.com>
 <CDCBEB40-61D2-4809-A0F1-231DA237A6C3@pacifier.com>
 <CAPzQJL+KSQ-EgrM4NODszM2zrkdJWvvj-16xcFkBOetzX2szZw@mail.gmail.com>
 <68af0c44-a65c-e78a-6e10-68cbfac98ea6@pdslabs.net>
Message-ID: <5D7FA422-B495-4130-961F-AA52E7A49E3B@pacifier.com>

I think SOLite intentionally fills the memory with
garbage as part of its secure deletion when the
database is closed.

JB


> On May 1, 2020, at 12:39 PM, Phil Davis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Is there an LC function that clears trash from memory? Does "hasMemory"? If not, it seems like that would be a nice feature.
> 
> Phil Davis
> 
> 
> On 5/1/20 12:25 PM, Tom Glod via use-livecode wrote:
>> hmmm....you can try set the pragma to zero out flag (i am pretty sure there
>> is one) .. and drop all tables on close?
>> 
>> its strange that it does not 'delete' from memory.  Are we sure on
>> this?..... is this dependent on the garbage collector in LC?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Fri, May 1, 2020 at 7:14 AM JB via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> I have been testing SQLite 3 using the command line interface and it
>>> looks to me like SQLite is designed to securely delete the memory of
>>> the database automatically after it closes the database.
>>> 
>>> I could be wrong but if you can?t read the memory it is probably already
>>> securely deleted when the database was closed.
>>> 
>>> JB
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Apr 30, 2020, at 6:43 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> I can create memory databases, but how do I delete it once created?
>>> revdb_disconnect still leaves it in memory. revCloseDatabase is just a
>>> synonym of revdb_disconnect.
>>>> Bob S
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>> 
> 
> -- 
> Phil Davis
> 503-307-4363
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Fri May  1 20:49:52 2020
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Sat, 2 May 2020 00:49:52 +0000
Subject: Script Only Behaviors
Message-ID: <029A743B-022D-4167-9C5A-0A2D3715BF82@iotecdigital.com>

Hi all. 

I?m gonna say that script only stacks cannot have behaviors eh? Reason is, I?d like to move my nested data grid behavior to a script only stack, but it occurs to me this might break the datagrid, since it?s next level behavior is the old data grid behavior button (not sure why that?s still there) then the actual script only datagrid library. 

Bob S


From waprothero at gmail.com  Sat May  2 01:21:38 2020
From: waprothero at gmail.com (William Prothero)
Date: Fri, 1 May 2020 22:21:38 -0700
Subject: Is it possible to get the clicked cell for a table field, if the
 table is empty?
In-Reply-To: <029A743B-022D-4167-9C5A-0A2D3715BF82@iotecdigital.com>
References: <029A743B-022D-4167-9C5A-0A2D3715BF82@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <0FEBF659-8C28-4E8A-B512-AE1EA24725A8@gmail.com>

Folks:
I have an app that requires that I be able to get the cell row and column when I click on the cell. I know a dataGrid can do this, but is it possible with a table field? I know I can get the clicked line, but what about the cell, when the table is empty.

I use, to get the line (from the lessons), but it only returns the line number: 
on mouseUp

put the clickline into msg

put return & value (the clickline) after msg

set the itemdelimiter to tab

put return & item 1 of value (the clickline) && item 2 of value (the clickline) after msg

end mouseUp

Tnx for any suggestions.
Bill

William A. Prothero
https://earthlearningsolutions.org

> On May 1, 2020, at 5:49 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi all. 
> 
> I?m gonna say that script only stacks cannot have behaviors eh? Reason is, I?d like to move my nested data grid behavior to a script only stack, but it occurs to me this might break the datagrid, since it?s next level behavior is the old data grid behavior button (not sure why that?s still there) then the actual script only datagrid library. 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sat May  2 01:24:16 2020
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sat, 2 May 2020 00:24:16 -0500
Subject: FormattedHeight
In-Reply-To: <95C323E5-48F5-4312-A7CD-CEEF3356BC6B@elementarysoftware.com>
References: <4f7c74d3-ab8e-c755-215b-f3d09c81f7ac@hyperactivesw.com>
 <95C323E5-48F5-4312-A7CD-CEEF3356BC6B@elementarysoftware.com>
Message-ID: <60cf7726-92bf-b50c-2d63-7bf0532547cf@hyperactivesw.com>

Yes, that seems to be the problem. I have a long text field that exceeds the maximum. There's 
an enclosing group to be compatible with acceleratedRendering on mobile. The same setup is used 
for all the field/group combinations in the stack and they all work except this one, but the 
others are all shorter.

I set the inner field to its full formattedHeight inside the group, which is shorter. The group 
has a behavior that scrolls the content.

I discovered today that if I set the behavior on the field instead of its enclosing group, I 
can make it scroll. But acceleratedRendering on a field is jerky and doesn't work very well on 
mobile. I can't break up the text, it has to be all one block. I have tried setting the group 
to container layermode without success.

If you're wondering why the text exceeds the maximum, this is for a mobile app and there is not 
only a lot of heavy formatting with large headings and spaceBelow, but the text size is largish 
so that it is readable on a tiny phone. That makes the pixel count pretty high.

I only have a very short time left to solve this.

On 5/1/20 4:45 PM, scott--- via use-livecode wrote:
> Are you exceeding the maximum vertical scroll?
> (I haven?t run into this recently but I believe at one point the vScroll of groups was limited at the engine level to 32780)
> 
> Scott Morrow
> 
> Elementary Software
> (Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
> web       https://elementarysoftware.com/
> email     scott at elementarysoftware.com
> booth    1-800-615-0867
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
>> On May 1, 2020, at 1:17 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>> Is the formattedHeight of a group broken for anyone else? LC 9.6dp4 (and possibly dp3).
>>
>> I'm a little frantic.
>>
>> -- 
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 


-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com




From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Sat May  2 03:06:33 2020
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Sat, 2 May 2020 02:06:33 -0500
Subject: Script Only Behaviors
In-Reply-To: <029A743B-022D-4167-9C5A-0A2D3715BF82@iotecdigital.com>
References: <029A743B-022D-4167-9C5A-0A2D3715BF82@iotecdigital.com>
Message-ID: <CAHg3tG9fMW+UB36zSVZtyLwgDHpR2rX1CCza6ohFPSJO0ZEROw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, May 1, 2020 at 7:51 PM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

>
> I?m gonna say that script only stacks cannot have behaviors eh? Reason is,
> I?d like to move my nested data grid behavior to a script only stack, but
> it occurs to me this might break the datagrid, since it?s next level
> behavior is the old data grid behavior button (not sure why that?s still
> there) then the actual script only datagrid library.
>

Hi Bob,

In fact script-only stacks can have behaviors. There are two ways you can
assign the behavior:

1) Define the behavior within the script-only stack itself.

script "My script-only stack" with behavior "A Stack Name"

Just make sure that the stack being assigned as the behavior is loaded into
memory when you load the script-only stack.

2) After loading the script-only stack into memory set the behavior
property.

If you need to assign the behavior of the script-only stack to a button
then use method #2.

-- 
Trevor DeVore
ScreenSteps - https://www.screensteps.com
Levure App Framework for LiveCode - https://github.com/trevordevore/levure/
LiveCode Repos -
https://github.com/search?q=user%3Atrevordevore+topic:livecode
LiveCode Builder Repos -
https://github.com/search?q=user%3Atrevordevore+topic:livecode-builder


From scott at elementarysoftware.com  Sat May  2 03:25:49 2020
From: scott at elementarysoftware.com (scott at elementarysoftware.com)
Date: Sat, 2 May 2020 00:25:49 -0700
Subject: FormattedHeight
In-Reply-To: <60cf7726-92bf-b50c-2d63-7bf0532547cf@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <4f7c74d3-ab8e-c755-215b-f3d09c81f7ac@hyperactivesw.com>
 <95C323E5-48F5-4312-A7CD-CEEF3356BC6B@elementarysoftware.com>
 <60cf7726-92bf-b50c-2d63-7bf0532547cf@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <4AFB4787-2C0F-405C-B1F5-7D36D5A731B9@elementarysoftware.com>

I?ve run into that a few times but not recently. I couldn?t find anywhere that I had worked around it. All I can imagine trying is 
1. Swapping text in and out at some point (possibly just one giant stutter) or 
2. Changing the size of the text that is not visible during the scroll? though (the more I think about that one the more it seems like it would make the scroll wacky in other ways)  Neither seems super-promising but that?s all I can think of at the moment. If you find a solution, I would love to know what it is.
?
Scott


> On May 1, 2020, at 10:24 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Yes, that seems to be the problem. I have a long text field that exceeds the maximum. There's an enclosing group to be compatible with acceleratedRendering on mobile. The same setup is used for all the field/group combinations in the stack and they all work except this one, but the others are all shorter.
> 
> I set the inner field to its full formattedHeight inside the group, which is shorter. The group has a behavior that scrolls the content.
> 
> I discovered today that if I set the behavior on the field instead of its enclosing group, I can make it scroll. But acceleratedRendering on a field is jerky and doesn't work very well on mobile. I can't break up the text, it has to be all one block. I have tried setting the group to container layermode without success.
> 
> If you're wondering why the text exceeds the maximum, this is for a mobile app and there is not only a lot of heavy formatting with large headings and spaceBelow, but the text size is largish so that it is readable on a tiny phone. That makes the pixel count pretty high.
> 
> I only have a very short time left to solve this.
> 
> On 5/1/20 4:45 PM, scott--- via use-livecode wrote:
>> Are you exceeding the maximum vertical scroll?
>> (I haven?t run into this recently but I believe at one point the vScroll of groups was limited at the engine level to 32780)
>> Scott Morrow
>> Elementary Software
>> (Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
>> web       https://elementarysoftware.com/
>> email     scott at elementarysoftware.com
>> booth    1-800-615-0867
>> ------------------------------------------------------
>>> On May 1, 2020, at 1:17 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Is the formattedHeight of a group broken for anyone else? LC 9.6dp4 (and possibly dp3).
>>> 
>>> I'm a little frantic.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>>> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From ahsoftware at sonic.net  Sat May  2 09:35:24 2020
From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sat, 2 May 2020 06:35:24 -0700
Subject: Script Only Behaviors
In-Reply-To: <CAHg3tG9fMW+UB36zSVZtyLwgDHpR2rX1CCza6ohFPSJO0ZEROw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <029A743B-022D-4167-9C5A-0A2D3715BF82@iotecdigital.com>
 <CAHg3tG9fMW+UB36zSVZtyLwgDHpR2rX1CCza6ohFPSJO0ZEROw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e03de0e5-8ab6-616a-d469-add357f45dab@sonic.net>

On 5/2/20 12:06 AM, Trevor DeVore via use-livecode wrote:

> script "My script-only stack" with behavior "A Stack Name"

Nice! I didn't know that behavior syntax existed. Is that documented 
somewhere?

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Sat May  2 10:44:17 2020
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Sat, 2 May 2020 09:44:17 -0500
Subject: Script Only Behaviors
In-Reply-To: <e03de0e5-8ab6-616a-d469-add357f45dab@sonic.net>
References: <029A743B-022D-4167-9C5A-0A2D3715BF82@iotecdigital.com>
 <CAHg3tG9fMW+UB36zSVZtyLwgDHpR2rX1CCza6ohFPSJO0ZEROw@mail.gmail.com>
 <e03de0e5-8ab6-616a-d469-add357f45dab@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <CAHg3tG_GK6TKaiw0s6YqsS=W3RDqijmqBwe+0ZZaDmj6_zp-Qg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, May 2, 2020 at 8:36 AM Mark Wieder via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> On 5/2/20 12:06 AM, Trevor DeVore via use-livecode wrote:
>
> > script "My script-only stack" with behavior "A Stack Name"
>
> Nice! I didn't know that behavior syntax existed. Is that documented
> somewhere?
>

The only place I could find it is in the 8.1 Release Notes:

https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/8_1_10/LiveCodeNotes-8_1_10.pdf

-- 
Trevor DeVore
ScreenSteps - https://www.screensteps.com
Levure App Framework for LiveCode - https://github.com/trevordevore/levure/
LiveCode Repos -
https://github.com/search?q=user%3Atrevordevore+topic:livecode
LiveCode Builder Repos -
https://github.com/search?q=user%3Atrevordevore+topic:livecode-builder


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sat May  2 13:25:55 2020
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sat, 02 May 2020 12:25:55 -0500
Subject: FormattedHeight
In-Reply-To: <4AFB4787-2C0F-405C-B1F5-7D36D5A731B9@elementarysoftware.com>
References: <4f7c74d3-ab8e-c755-215b-f3d09c81f7ac@hyperactivesw.com>
 <95C323E5-48F5-4312-A7CD-CEEF3356BC6B@elementarysoftware.com>
 <60cf7726-92bf-b50c-2d63-7bf0532547cf@hyperactivesw.com>
 <4AFB4787-2C0F-405C-B1F5-7D36D5A731B9@elementarysoftware.com>
Message-ID: <171d66c50b8.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

I think the solution has to be in the engine. I'm in trouble.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On May 2, 2020 2:27:53 AM scott--- via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I?ve run into that a few times but not recently. I couldn?t find anywhere 
> that I had worked around it. All I can imagine trying is
> 1. Swapping text in and out at some point (possibly just one giant stutter) or
> 2. Changing the size of the text that is not visible during the scroll? 
> though (the more I think about that one the more it seems like it would 
> make the scroll wacky in other ways)  Neither seems super-promising but 
> that?s all I can think of at the moment. If you find a solution, I would 
> love to know what it is.
> ?
> Scott
>
>
>> On May 1, 2020, at 10:24 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>> Yes, that seems to be the problem. I have a long text field that exceeds 
>> the maximum. There's an enclosing group to be compatible with 
>> acceleratedRendering on mobile. The same setup is used for all the 
>> field/group combinations in the stack and they all work except this one, 
>> but the others are all shorter.
>>
>> I set the inner field to its full formattedHeight inside the group, which 
>> is shorter. The group has a behavior that scrolls the content.
>>
>> I discovered today that if I set the behavior on the field instead of its 
>> enclosing group, I can make it scroll. But acceleratedRendering on a field 
>> is jerky and doesn't work very well on mobile. I can't break up the text, 
>> it has to be all one block. I have tried setting the group to container 
>> layermode without success.
>>
>> If you're wondering why the text exceeds the maximum, this is for a mobile 
>> app and there is not only a lot of heavy formatting with large headings and 
>> spaceBelow, but the text size is largish so that it is readable on a tiny 
>> phone. That makes the pixel count pretty high.
>>
>> I only have a very short time left to solve this.
>>
>> On 5/1/20 4:45 PM, scott--- via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Are you exceeding the maximum vertical scroll?
>>> (I haven?t run into this recently but I believe at one point the vScroll of 
>>> groups was limited at the engine level to 32780)
>>> Scott Morrow
>>> Elementary Software
>>> (Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
>>> web       https://elementarysoftware.com/
>>> email     scott at elementarysoftware.com
>>> booth    1-800-615-0867
>>> ------------------------------------------------------
>>>> On May 1, 2020, at 1:17 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>>>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Is the formattedHeight of a group broken for anyone else? LC 9.6dp4 (and 
>>>> possibly dp3).
>>>>
>>>> I'm a little frantic.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>>>> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode






From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Sat May  2 13:42:23 2020
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Sat, 2 May 2020 12:42:23 -0500
Subject: DataView and DataView Tree Updates
Message-ID: <CAHg3tG-Ai8METn1kD3T2__xLcLyhd2-R6q9aeB9biD5tJvbf7w@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I've updated the DataView and DataView Tree code in my GitHub repos with a
script that will load all of the necessary files for developers who are not
using the Levure framework. You will find updated instructions in the
README, a link to the latest release, and a link to a demo project showing
what they can do at the following links:

https://github.com/trevordevore/levurehelper-dataview

https://github.com/trevordevore/levurehelper-dataview_tree

-- 
Trevor DeVore
ScreenSteps - https://www.screensteps.com
Levure App Framework for LiveCode - https://github.com/trevordevore/levure/
LiveCode Repos -
https://github.com/search?q=user%3Atrevordevore+topic:livecode
LiveCode Builder Repos -
https://github.com/search?q=user%3Atrevordevore+topic:livecode-builder


From ahsoftware at sonic.net  Sat May  2 13:48:57 2020
From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sat, 2 May 2020 10:48:57 -0700
Subject: Script Only Behaviors
In-Reply-To: <CAHg3tG_GK6TKaiw0s6YqsS=W3RDqijmqBwe+0ZZaDmj6_zp-Qg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <029A743B-022D-4167-9C5A-0A2D3715BF82@iotecdigital.com>
 <CAHg3tG9fMW+UB36zSVZtyLwgDHpR2rX1CCza6ohFPSJO0ZEROw@mail.gmail.com>
 <e03de0e5-8ab6-616a-d469-add357f45dab@sonic.net>
 <CAHg3tG_GK6TKaiw0s6YqsS=W3RDqijmqBwe+0ZZaDmj6_zp-Qg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8cd901c7-6b8d-a88f-eb7b-30d0b5880c9f@sonic.net>

On 5/2/20 7:44 AM, Trevor DeVore via use-livecode wrote:
> On Sat, May 2, 2020 at 8:36 AM Mark Wieder via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 5/2/20 12:06 AM, Trevor DeVore via use-livecode wrote:
>>
>>> script "My script-only stack" with behavior "A Stack Name"
>>
>> Nice! I didn't know that behavior syntax existed. Is that documented
>> somewhere?
>>
> 
> The only place I could find it is in the 8.1 Release Notes:
> 
> https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/8_1_10/LiveCodeNotes-8_1_10.pdf
> 

Thanks, Trevor. It's unfortunate that there isn't a better way to 
document these things so they don't fall through the cracks, but I'm not 
sure where this would go in the docs.

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From ali.lloyd at livecode.com  Sat May  2 15:13:42 2020
From: ali.lloyd at livecode.com (Ali Lloyd)
Date: Sat, 2 May 2020 20:13:42 +0100
Subject: Script Only Behaviors
In-Reply-To: <8cd901c7-6b8d-a88f-eb7b-30d0b5880c9f@sonic.net>
References: <029A743B-022D-4167-9C5A-0A2D3715BF82@iotecdigital.com>
 <CAHg3tG9fMW+UB36zSVZtyLwgDHpR2rX1CCza6ohFPSJO0ZEROw@mail.gmail.com>
 <e03de0e5-8ab6-616a-d469-add357f45dab@sonic.net>
 <CAHg3tG_GK6TKaiw0s6YqsS=W3RDqijmqBwe+0ZZaDmj6_zp-Qg@mail.gmail.com>
 <8cd901c7-6b8d-a88f-eb7b-30d0b5880c9f@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <CAJR0Q1jS5KdQEF8UXnz5BhmW4xr+K30kXqJC532tCFAEQnRgSg@mail.gmail.com>

It's also mentioned in the scriptOnly property and in the script only stack
entry in the glossary

On Sat, 2 May 2020 at 18:48, Mark Wieder via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> On 5/2/20 7:44 AM, Trevor DeVore via use-livecode wrote:
> > On Sat, May 2, 2020 at 8:36 AM Mark Wieder via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On 5/2/20 12:06 AM, Trevor DeVore via use-livecode wrote:
> >>
> >>> script "My script-only stack" with behavior "A Stack Name"
> >>
> >> Nice! I didn't know that behavior syntax existed. Is that documented
> >> somewhere?
> >>
> >
> > The only place I could find it is in the 8.1 Release Notes:
> >
> > https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/8_1_10/LiveCodeNotes-8_1_10.pdf
> >
>
> Thanks, Trevor. It's unfortunate that there isn't a better way to
> document these things so they don't fall through the cracks, but I'm not
> sure where this would go in the docs.
>
> --
>   Mark Wieder
>   ahsoftware at gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From ahsoftware at sonic.net  Sat May  2 16:56:46 2020
From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sat, 2 May 2020 13:56:46 -0700
Subject: Script Only Behaviors
In-Reply-To: <CAJR0Q1jS5KdQEF8UXnz5BhmW4xr+K30kXqJC532tCFAEQnRgSg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <029A743B-022D-4167-9C5A-0A2D3715BF82@iotecdigital.com>
 <CAHg3tG9fMW+UB36zSVZtyLwgDHpR2rX1CCza6ohFPSJO0ZEROw@mail.gmail.com>
 <e03de0e5-8ab6-616a-d469-add357f45dab@sonic.net>
 <CAHg3tG_GK6TKaiw0s6YqsS=W3RDqijmqBwe+0ZZaDmj6_zp-Qg@mail.gmail.com>
 <8cd901c7-6b8d-a88f-eb7b-30d0b5880c9f@sonic.net>
 <CAJR0Q1jS5KdQEF8UXnz5BhmW4xr+K30kXqJC532tCFAEQnRgSg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ca00c6af-148a-7ced-ca6f-c1ca054f26da@sonic.net>

On 5/2/20 12:13 PM, Ali Lloyd via use-livecode wrote:
> It's also mentioned in the scriptOnly property and in the script only stack
> entry in the glossary

OK - I see documentationcache/9_6_0_dp_4_community/api.html has a 
reference under "script only stack". But it's hinted at obliquely in the 
scriptOnly section, which only says "If the stack has a stack behavior, 
the name of the behavior stack is also saved to the header line", which 
would imply to me that it's only after the fact.

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Sat May  2 16:59:53 2020
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Sat, 2 May 2020 15:59:53 -0500
Subject: Script Only Behaviors
In-Reply-To: <CAJR0Q1jS5KdQEF8UXnz5BhmW4xr+K30kXqJC532tCFAEQnRgSg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <029A743B-022D-4167-9C5A-0A2D3715BF82@iotecdigital.com>
 <CAHg3tG9fMW+UB36zSVZtyLwgDHpR2rX1CCza6ohFPSJO0ZEROw@mail.gmail.com>
 <e03de0e5-8ab6-616a-d469-add357f45dab@sonic.net>
 <CAHg3tG_GK6TKaiw0s6YqsS=W3RDqijmqBwe+0ZZaDmj6_zp-Qg@mail.gmail.com>
 <8cd901c7-6b8d-a88f-eb7b-30d0b5880c9f@sonic.net>
 <CAJR0Q1jS5KdQEF8UXnz5BhmW4xr+K30kXqJC532tCFAEQnRgSg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHg3tG8BRf-EvqNmBrRncmz5dDBN=p21VWmAgAFnKGOBMMDv0g@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, May 2, 2020 at 2:14 PM Ali Lloyd via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> It's also mentioned in the scriptOnly property and in the script only stack
> entry in the glossary
>

I'm not sure how I missed that. I searched for "script only" in the
dictionary and no results came up. I must have been filtering by LiveCode
Builder.

-- 
Trevor DeVore
ScreenSteps - https://www.screensteps.com
Levure App Framework for LiveCode - https://github.com/trevordevore/levure/
LiveCode Repos -
https://github.com/search?q=user%3Atrevordevore+topic:livecode
LiveCode Builder Repos -
https://github.com/search?q=user%3Atrevordevore+topic:livecode-builder


From colinholgate at gmail.com  Sat May  2 19:04:58 2020
From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate)
Date: Sat, 2 May 2020 17:04:58 -0600
Subject: Most obscure HC question
Message-ID: <689298F7-73D9-497A-8850-2FDC08E42813@gmail.com>

I fear that the HyperCard group in Yahoo may be lost. Please let me know if that isn?t true.

But between you all you may remember something that will help me. I have a standalone HC application, and it opens with a window that shows that you are only seeing part of the card window. The card window doesn?t resize, and I can?t remember how to make it be bigger. Here?s things that didn?t work:

Setting a ton of memory.
Setting Monitors to match the card size.
Resizing the preview rectangle. You can only resize it smaller.
Resizing the card window.
Clicking the zoom box.

As it?s a standalone application I can?t easily get at the stack, but feel sure there was a way to hack the stack out of a standalone.

Anyway, please enjoy the challenge of remembering this far back!



From scott at elementarysoftware.com  Sat May  2 19:36:01 2020
From: scott at elementarysoftware.com (scott at elementarysoftware.com)
Date: Sat, 2 May 2020 16:36:01 -0700
Subject: FormattedHeight
In-Reply-To: <171d66c50b8.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <4f7c74d3-ab8e-c755-215b-f3d09c81f7ac@hyperactivesw.com>
 <95C323E5-48F5-4312-A7CD-CEEF3356BC6B@elementarysoftware.com>
 <60cf7726-92bf-b50c-2d63-7bf0532547cf@hyperactivesw.com>
 <4AFB4787-2C0F-405C-B1F5-7D36D5A731B9@elementarysoftware.com>
 <171d66c50b8.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <8F9F53E4-978C-4821-86C7-1D755547F9CC@elementarysoftware.com>

What about having two fields with a small amount of overlapping (same) text and as the first field reaches the end of its scroll, the second field could be displayed and begin its scroll? 
?Scott


> On May 2, 2020, at 10:25 AM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I think the solution has to be in the engine. I'm in trouble.
> 
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> On May 2, 2020 2:27:53 AM scott--- via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> I?ve run into that a few times but not recently. I couldn?t find anywhere that I had worked around it. All I can imagine trying is
>> 1. Swapping text in and out at some point (possibly just one giant stutter) or
>> 2. Changing the size of the text that is not visible during the scroll? though (the more I think about that one the more it seems like it would make the scroll wacky in other ways)  Neither seems super-promising but that?s all I can think of at the moment. If you find a solution, I would love to know what it is.
>> ?
>> Scott
>> 
>> 
>>> On May 1, 2020, at 10:24 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Yes, that seems to be the problem. I have a long text field that exceeds the maximum. There's an enclosing group to be compatible with acceleratedRendering on mobile. The same setup is used for all the field/group combinations in the stack and they all work except this one, but the others are all shorter.
>>> 
>>> I set the inner field to its full formattedHeight inside the group, which is shorter. The group has a behavior that scrolls the content.
>>> 
>>> I discovered today that if I set the behavior on the field instead of its enclosing group, I can make it scroll. But acceleratedRendering on a field is jerky and doesn't work very well on mobile. I can't break up the text, it has to be all one block. I have tried setting the group to container layermode without success.
>>> 
>>> If you're wondering why the text exceeds the maximum, this is for a mobile app and there is not only a lot of heavy formatting with large headings and spaceBelow, but the text size is largish so that it is readable on a tiny phone. That makes the pixel count pretty high.
>>> 
>>> I only have a very short time left to solve this.
>>> 
>>> On 5/1/20 4:45 PM, scott--- via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> Are you exceeding the maximum vertical scroll?
>>>> (I haven?t run into this recently but I believe at one point the vScroll of groups was limited at the engine level to 32780)
>>>> Scott Morrow
>>>> Elementary Software
>>>> (Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
>>>> web       https://elementarysoftware.com/
>>>> email     scott at elementarysoftware.com
>>>> booth    1-800-615-0867
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> On May 1, 2020, at 1:17 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Is the formattedHeight of a group broken for anyone else? LC 9.6dp4 (and possibly dp3).
>>>>> 
>>>>> I'm a little frantic.
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>>>>> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From dochawk at gmail.com  Sat May  2 19:39:10 2020
From: dochawk at gmail.com (doc hawk)
Date: Sat, 2 May 2020 16:39:10 -0700
Subject: Most obscure HC question
In-Reply-To: <689298F7-73D9-497A-8850-2FDC08E42813@gmail.com>
References: <689298F7-73D9-497A-8850-2FDC08E42813@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <64A0D0FA-F329-4815-AE02-5AECEB85E59C@gmail.com>


Colin called,
> 
> But between you all you may remember something that will help me. I have a standalone HC application, and it opens with a window that shows that you are only seeing part of the card window. The card window doesn?t resize, and I can?t remember how to make it be bigger. Here?s things that didn?t work:


Does this help?

https://cancel.fm/stuff/share/HyperCard_Reference_1.pdf <https://cancel.fm/stuff/share/HyperCard_Reference_1.pdf>

It?s for 2.5, but seems to cover it.

I had to switch from hypercard to supercars to have multiple windows.  Once Hypercard 2.0 came out with multiple views, I would have had to copy/paste every last control to go back, so only transferred the main script for other applications of my tech.



From colinholgate at gmail.com  Sat May  2 19:46:01 2020
From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate)
Date: Sat, 2 May 2020 17:46:01 -0600
Subject: Most obscure HC question
In-Reply-To: <64A0D0FA-F329-4815-AE02-5AECEB85E59C@gmail.com>
References: <689298F7-73D9-497A-8850-2FDC08E42813@gmail.com>
 <64A0D0FA-F329-4815-AE02-5AECEB85E59C@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7C7664B2-B150-4D72-8E37-6B71B6D8692A@gmail.com>

That is the whole reference guide. I have physical copies of that! Was there a particular part that might help with the ?maximize? card size problem?


> On May 2, 2020, at 5:39 PM, doc hawk via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> Colin called,
>> 
>> But between you all you may remember something that will help me. I have a standalone HC application, and it opens with a window that shows that you are only seeing part of the card window. The card window doesn?t resize, and I can?t remember how to make it be bigger. Here?s things that didn?t work:
> 
> 
> Does this help?
> 
> https://cancel.fm/stuff/share/HyperCard_Reference_1.pdf <https://cancel.fm/stuff/share/HyperCard_Reference_1.pdf>
> 
> It?s for 2.5, but seems to cover it.
> 
> I had to switch from hypercard to supercars to have multiple windows.  Once Hypercard 2.0 came out with multiple views, I would have had to copy/paste every last control to go back, so only transferred the main script for other applications of my tech.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sat May  2 20:11:41 2020
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sat, 02 May 2020 19:11:41 -0500
Subject: FormattedHeight
In-Reply-To: <8F9F53E4-978C-4821-86C7-1D755547F9CC@elementarysoftware.com>
References: <4f7c74d3-ab8e-c755-215b-f3d09c81f7ac@hyperactivesw.com>
 <95C323E5-48F5-4312-A7CD-CEEF3356BC6B@elementarysoftware.com>
 <60cf7726-92bf-b50c-2d63-7bf0532547cf@hyperactivesw.com>
 <4AFB4787-2C0F-405C-B1F5-7D36D5A731B9@elementarysoftware.com>
 <171d66c50b8.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <8F9F53E4-978C-4821-86C7-1D755547F9CC@elementarysoftware.com>
Message-ID: <171d7dfce48.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

I was considering that when Trevor contacted me and suggested his DataView 
(he posted about it today) and it's the same idea. I'm going to look into 
that, it sounds promising.

I really appreciate the responses here, you guys are awesome.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On May 2, 2020 6:38:05 PM scott--- via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> What about having two fields with a small amount of overlapping (same) text 
> and as the first field reaches the end of its scroll, the second field 
> could be displayed and begin its scroll?
> ?Scott
>
>
>> On May 2, 2020, at 10:25 AM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>> I think the solution has to be in the engine. I'm in trouble.
>>
>> --
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>> On May 2, 2020 2:27:53 AM scott--- via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I?ve run into that a few times but not recently. I couldn?t find anywhere 
>>> that I had worked around it. All I can imagine trying is
>>> 1. Swapping text in and out at some point (possibly just one giant stutter) or
>>> 2. Changing the size of the text that is not visible during the scroll? 
>>> though (the more I think about that one the more it seems like it would 
>>> make the scroll wacky in other ways)  Neither seems super-promising but 
>>> that?s all I can think of at the moment. If you find a solution, I would 
>>> love to know what it is.
>>> ?
>>> Scott
>>>
>>>
>>>> On May 1, 2020, at 10:24 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>>>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Yes, that seems to be the problem. I have a long text field that exceeds 
>>>> the maximum. There's an enclosing group to be compatible with 
>>>> acceleratedRendering on mobile. The same setup is used for all the 
>>>> field/group combinations in the stack and they all work except this one, 
>>>> but the others are all shorter.
>>>>
>>>> I set the inner field to its full formattedHeight inside the group, which 
>>>> is shorter. The group has a behavior that scrolls the content.
>>>>
>>>> I discovered today that if I set the behavior on the field instead of its 
>>>> enclosing group, I can make it scroll. But acceleratedRendering on a field 
>>>> is jerky and doesn't work very well on mobile. I can't break up the text, 
>>>> it has to be all one block. I have tried setting the group to container 
>>>> layermode without success.
>>>>
>>>> If you're wondering why the text exceeds the maximum, this is for a mobile 
>>>> app and there is not only a lot of heavy formatting with large headings and 
>>>> spaceBelow, but the text size is largish so that it is readable on a tiny 
>>>> phone. That makes the pixel count pretty high.
>>>>
>>>> I only have a very short time left to solve this.
>>>>
>>>> On 5/1/20 4:45 PM, scott--- via use-livecode wrote:
>>>>> Are you exceeding the maximum vertical scroll?
>>>>> (I haven?t run into this recently but I believe at one point the vScroll of 
>>>>> groups was limited at the engine level to 32780)
>>>>> Scott Morrow
>>>>> Elementary Software
>>>>> (Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
>>>>> web       https://elementarysoftware.com/
>>>>> email     scott at elementarysoftware.com
>>>>> booth    1-800-615-0867
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> On May 1, 2020, at 1:17 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>>>>>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is the formattedHeight of a group broken for anyone else? LC 9.6dp4 (and 
>>>>>> possibly dp3).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm a little frantic.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>>>>>> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode






From terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au  Sat May  2 20:29:32 2020
From: terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd)
Date: Sun, 3 May 2020 00:29:32 +0000
Subject: FormattedHeight
In-Reply-To: <171d66c50b8.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <4f7c74d3-ab8e-c755-215b-f3d09c81f7ac@hyperactivesw.com>
 <95C323E5-48F5-4312-A7CD-CEEF3356BC6B@elementarysoftware.com>
 <60cf7726-92bf-b50c-2d63-7bf0532547cf@hyperactivesw.com>
 <4AFB4787-2C0F-405C-B1F5-7D36D5A731B9@elementarysoftware.com>
 <171d66c50b8.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <9B44BB0C-0B0C-4AB4-BCE9-B6F4E2A47492@unimelb.edu.au>

Could you use a browser instance instead of a field?

?On 03/05/2020, 03:27, "use-livecode on behalf of J. Landman Gay via use-livecode" <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

    I think the solution has to be in the engine. I'm in trouble.

    --
    Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
    HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
    On May 2, 2020 2:27:53 AM scott--- via use-livecode 
    <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

    > I?ve run into that a few times but not recently. I couldn?t find anywhere 
    > that I had worked around it. All I can imagine trying is
    > 1. Swapping text in and out at some point (possibly just one giant stutter) or
    > 2. Changing the size of the text that is not visible during the scroll? 
    > though (the more I think about that one the more it seems like it would 
    > make the scroll wacky in other ways)  Neither seems super-promising but 
    > that?s all I can think of at the moment. If you find a solution, I would 
    > love to know what it is.
    > ?
    > Scott
    >
    >
    >> On May 1, 2020, at 10:24 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
    >> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
    >>
    >> Yes, that seems to be the problem. I have a long text field that exceeds 
    >> the maximum. There's an enclosing group to be compatible with 
    >> acceleratedRendering on mobile. The same setup is used for all the 
    >> field/group combinations in the stack and they all work except this one, 
    >> but the others are all shorter.
    >>
    >> I set the inner field to its full formattedHeight inside the group, which 
    >> is shorter. The group has a behavior that scrolls the content.
    >>
    >> I discovered today that if I set the behavior on the field instead of its 
    >> enclosing group, I can make it scroll. But acceleratedRendering on a field 
    >> is jerky and doesn't work very well on mobile. I can't break up the text, 
    >> it has to be all one block. I have tried setting the group to container 
    >> layermode without success.
    >>
    >> If you're wondering why the text exceeds the maximum, this is for a mobile 
    >> app and there is not only a lot of heavy formatting with large headings and 
    >> spaceBelow, but the text size is largish so that it is readable on a tiny 
    >> phone. That makes the pixel count pretty high.
    >>
    >> I only have a very short time left to solve this.
    >>
    >> On 5/1/20 4:45 PM, scott--- via use-livecode wrote:
    >>> Are you exceeding the maximum vertical scroll?
    >>> (I haven?t run into this recently but I believe at one point the vScroll of 
    >>> groups was limited at the engine level to 32780)
    >>> Scott Morrow
    >>> Elementary Software
    >>> (Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
    >>> web       https://elementarysoftware.com
    >>> email     scott at elementarysoftware.com
    >>> booth    1-800-615-0867
    >>> ------------------------------------------------------
    >>>> On May 1, 2020, at 1:17 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
    >>>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>> Is the formattedHeight of a group broken for anyone else? LC 9.6dp4 (and 
    >>>> possibly dp3).
    >>>>
    >>>> I'm a little frantic.
    >>>>
    >>>> --
    >>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
    >>>> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
    >>>>
    >>>> _______________________________________________
    >>>> use-livecode mailing list
    >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
    >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
    >>>> subscription preferences:
    >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
    >>> _______________________________________________
    >>> use-livecode mailing list
    >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
    >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
    >>> subscription preferences:
    >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
    >>
    >>
    >> --
    >> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
    >> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
    >>
    >>
    >> _______________________________________________
    >> use-livecode mailing list
    >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
    >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
    >> subscription preferences:
    >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
    >
    >
    > _______________________________________________
    > use-livecode mailing list
    > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
    > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
    > subscription preferences:
    > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




    _______________________________________________
    use-livecode mailing list
    use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
    Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
    http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From paul at livecode.org  Sat May  2 20:38:05 2020
From: paul at livecode.org (Paul Hibbert)
Date: Sat, 2 May 2020 17:38:05 -0700
Subject: Is it possible to get the clicked cell for a table field, if the
 table is empty?
In-Reply-To: <0FEBF659-8C28-4E8A-B512-AE1EA24725A8@gmail.com>
References: <029A743B-022D-4167-9C5A-0A2D3715BF82@iotecdigital.com>
 <0FEBF659-8C28-4E8A-B512-AE1EA24725A8@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <18FFF5E5-25C3-4375-A9F8-06D6EE167164@livecode.org>

Mike Bonner posted this back on the 14th February 2020?

Found an interesting behavior.. I was trying to set up a custom control
that keeps track of the current row and column and put the script in the
group, but rawkeyup or rawkeydown messages never reach the group.  I'm
wondering if its because the message is sent to the figmentary popup field
rather than the table field, and that the popup is not part of the group.
But "the target" refers to the table field itself, so i'm not sure thats
whats happening.  Either way.. The following script works when put into a
card or stack, NOT group, and not in the table field itself.  Kinda freaky
that the message is sent, just not to where I expect, despite "the target"
still pointing back at the table field.

on mouseup
  getline
  pass mouseup
end mouseup
on rawkeyup
  getline
  pass rawkeyup
end rawkeyup

command getline
  if the short name of the focusedobject contains "revCell-" then
  put the short name of the focusedobject into tName
  replace "revCell-" with empty in tname
  set the cCol of the target to item 1 of tName
  set the cRow of the target to item 2 of tName
  end if
end getline

I just tried a quick test and tName has the cell row and column.

Paul

> On May 1, 2020, at 22:21, William Prothero via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Folks:
> I have an app that requires that I be able to get the cell row and column when I click on the cell. I know a dataGrid can do this, but is it possible with a table field? I know I can get the clicked line, but what about the cell, when the table is empty.
> 
> I use, to get the line (from the lessons), but it only returns the line number: 
> on mouseUp
> 
> put the clickline into msg
> 
> put return & value (the clickline) after msg
> 
> set the itemdelimiter to tab
> 
> put return & item 1 of value (the clickline) && item 2 of value (the clickline) after msg
> 
> end mouseUp
> 
> Tnx for any suggestions.
> Bill
> 
> William A. Prothero
> https://earthlearningsolutions.org
> 
>> On May 1, 2020, at 5:49 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all. 
>> 
>> I?m gonna say that script only stacks cannot have behaviors eh? Reason is, I?d like to move my nested data grid behavior to a script only stack, but it occurs to me this might break the datagrid, since it?s next level behavior is the old data grid behavior button (not sure why that?s still there) then the actual script only datagrid library. 
>> 
>> Bob S
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sat May  2 21:01:11 2020
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sat, 02 May 2020 20:01:11 -0500
Subject: FormattedHeight
In-Reply-To: <9B44BB0C-0B0C-4AB4-BCE9-B6F4E2A47492@unimelb.edu.au>
References: <4f7c74d3-ab8e-c755-215b-f3d09c81f7ac@hyperactivesw.com>
 <95C323E5-48F5-4312-A7CD-CEEF3356BC6B@elementarysoftware.com>
 <60cf7726-92bf-b50c-2d63-7bf0532547cf@hyperactivesw.com>
 <4AFB4787-2C0F-405C-B1F5-7D36D5A731B9@elementarysoftware.com>
 <171d66c50b8.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <9B44BB0C-0B0C-4AB4-BCE9-B6F4E2A47492@unimelb.edu.au>
Message-ID: <171d80d1fd8.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

I wish, but no. I need to highlight selections in different colors, overlay 
controls, format text, extract text, and other things that are easy in 
fields but hard in a browser.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On May 2, 2020 7:31:36 PM Terry Judd via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Could you use a browser instance instead of a field?
>
> ?On 03/05/2020, 03:27, "use-livecode on behalf of J. Landman Gay via 
> use-livecode" <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of 
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>    I think the solution has to be in the engine. I'm in trouble.
>
>    --
>    Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>    HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>    On May 2, 2020 2:27:53 AM scott--- via use-livecode
>    <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>    > I?ve run into that a few times but not recently. I couldn?t find anywhere
>    > that I had worked around it. All I can imagine trying is
>    > 1. Swapping text in and out at some point (possibly just one giant 
>    stutter) or
>    > 2. Changing the size of the text that is not visible during the scroll?
>    > though (the more I think about that one the more it seems like it would
>    > make the scroll wacky in other ways)  Neither seems super-promising but
>    > that?s all I can think of at the moment. If you find a solution, I would
>    > love to know what it is.
>    > ?
>    > Scott
>    >
>    >
>    >> On May 1, 2020, at 10:24 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
>    >> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>    >>
>    >> Yes, that seems to be the problem. I have a long text field that exceeds
>    >> the maximum. There's an enclosing group to be compatible with
>    >> acceleratedRendering on mobile. The same setup is used for all the
>    >> field/group combinations in the stack and they all work except this one,
>    >> but the others are all shorter.
>    >>
>    >> I set the inner field to its full formattedHeight inside the group, which
>    >> is shorter. The group has a behavior that scrolls the content.
>    >>
>    >> I discovered today that if I set the behavior on the field instead of its
>    >> enclosing group, I can make it scroll. But acceleratedRendering on a field
>    >> is jerky and doesn't work very well on mobile. I can't break up the text,
>    >> it has to be all one block. I have tried setting the group to container
>    >> layermode without success.
>    >>
>    >> If you're wondering why the text exceeds the maximum, this is for a mobile
>    >> app and there is not only a lot of heavy formatting with large headings and
>    >> spaceBelow, but the text size is largish so that it is readable on a tiny
>    >> phone. That makes the pixel count pretty high.
>    >>
>    >> I only have a very short time left to solve this.
>    >>
>    >> On 5/1/20 4:45 PM, scott--- via use-livecode wrote:
>    >>> Are you exceeding the maximum vertical scroll?
>    >>> (I haven?t run into this recently but I believe at one point the vScroll of
>    >>> groups was limited at the engine level to 32780)
>    >>> Scott Morrow
>    >>> Elementary Software
>    >>> (Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
>    >>> web       https://elementarysoftware.com
>    >>> email     scott at elementarysoftware.com
>    >>> booth    1-800-615-0867
>    >>> ------------------------------------------------------
>    >>>> On May 1, 2020, at 1:17 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
>    >>>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>    >>>>
>    >>>> Is the formattedHeight of a group broken for anyone else? LC 9.6dp4 (and
>    >>>> possibly dp3).
>    >>>>
>    >>>> I'm a little frantic.
>    >>>>
>    >>>> --
>    >>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>    >>>> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>    >>>>
>    >>>> _______________________________________________
>    >>>> use-livecode mailing list
>    >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>    >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>    >>>> subscription preferences:
>    >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>    >>> _______________________________________________
>    >>> use-livecode mailing list
>    >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>    >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>    >>> subscription preferences:
>    >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>    >>
>    >>
>    >> --
>    >> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>    >> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>    >>
>    >>
>    >> _______________________________________________
>    >> use-livecode mailing list
>    >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>    >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>    >> subscription preferences:
>    >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>    >
>    >
>    > _______________________________________________
>    > use-livecode mailing list
>    > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>    > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>    > subscription preferences:
>    > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
>
>
>    _______________________________________________
>    use-livecode mailing list
>    use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>    Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>    subscription preferences:
>    http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode






From dochawk at gmail.com  Sat May  2 21:15:13 2020
From: dochawk at gmail.com (doc hawk)
Date: Sat, 2 May 2020 18:15:13 -0700
Subject: Most obscure HC question
In-Reply-To: <7C7664B2-B150-4D72-8E37-6B71B6D8692A@gmail.com>
References: <689298F7-73D9-497A-8850-2FDC08E42813@gmail.com>
 <64A0D0FA-F329-4815-AE02-5AECEB85E59C@gmail.com>
 <7C7664B2-B150-4D72-8E37-6B71B6D8692A@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5B55DAB6-C606-42A7-8E63-6D5B19670CF8@gmail.com>


On May 2, 2020, at 4:46 PM, Colin Holgate via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> That is the whole reference guide. I have physical copies of that! Was there a particular part that might help with the ?maximize? card size problem?


I was thinking the menu reference, but that didn?t survive pasting the link .  I was thinking at about 1-36 on resizing the card window.

I remember that I *did* this stuff.

And thinking again, I believe you could specify size in code in 1.x, at least on a larger screen.  It *must* have been possible, as there was a single stack, and I created page size stacks for printing forms.

But it?s been, uhm, over 30 years, now that I think of it . . .

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat May  2 21:20:08 2020
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat, 2 May 2020 18:20:08 -0700
Subject: FormattedHeight
In-Reply-To: <171d66c50b8.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <171d66c50b8.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <1912a4c3-7e73-d7d8-1ca4-e927acb35373@fourthworld.com>

J. Landman Gay wrote:

 > I think the solution has to be in the engine. I'm in trouble.

Even if you find a workaround, I hope the engine team understands that 
it's a workaround, and has interest in letting us work in ways that are 
far less strangely counterintuitive that having to wrap a field in a group.

Same with buttons (why do we have five different ways to make one 
control type), and so many things on mobile.

Yesterday in the forums a new user was asking about copy and paste on 
mobile, something we understand doesn't work with LC's built-in fields 
(along with a good many other things), but new users expect LC to behave 
as well with mobile development as it does for desktop, and the need to 
type out control definitions like we're C programmers stuck in 1993 
while using what is supposed to be be an easy drag-n-drop GUI was barely 
acceptable as a short-term workaround when LC first jumped into mobile, 
and now a decade later it's maddeningly mystifying.

So I tried to explain the situation as nicely as I could:

     LiveCode's built-in field object have not yet been expanded
     to integrate with mobile OSes as it does on desktop platforms.

     In addition to clipboard support, you'd eventually discover other
     shortcomings using those on mobile, including nonstandard UI for
     text selection.

     LiveCode does offer support for mobile-native fields, however,
     using the script interface described in the User Guide and this
     lesson:
 
http://lessons.livecode.com/m/4069/l/29112-how-do-i-use-native-text-controls-on-mobile


To which this new customer replied:

    Right, so that's sorted by using a native input, and letting the OS
    deal with text and copying.

    That feels like quite an awkward solution for a paid license of a
    product with heavy focus on mobile development, but it did solve
    the problem at hand, thanks for the info FourthWorld


I agree with him. It is at best awkward.

LiveCode is nearly unmatched for making desktop apps, but for mobile 
development there are so many unfinished edges it's barely a contender 
for anyone not already heavily invested in LiveCode from desktop work.

It would be reassuring if the LC team could share with us their plan to 
finish their mobile implementation, to deliver a user experience on par 
with its best-of-breed desktop workflows.

If that's not a goal that's useful to know as well.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com




From mkoob at rogers.com  Sat May  2 21:56:48 2020
From: mkoob at rogers.com (Martin Koob)
Date: Sat, 2 May 2020 21:56:48 -0400
Subject: Most obscure HC question
In-Reply-To: <5B55DAB6-C606-42A7-8E63-6D5B19670CF8@gmail.com>
References: <689298F7-73D9-497A-8850-2FDC08E42813@gmail.com>
 <64A0D0FA-F329-4815-AE02-5AECEB85E59C@gmail.com>
 <7C7664B2-B150-4D72-8E37-6B71B6D8692A@gmail.com>
 <5B55DAB6-C606-42A7-8E63-6D5B19670CF8@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F98980F5-7792-4EE8-9A8E-1833B62D731C@rogers.com>

Hi

I posted this but then it bounced back because the message was too large.

Trying again posting as plain text.


----------

I looked this up in my Hypercard Script Language Guide

If you could get at the stack the script to set the window full size would be

     set the rect of cd window to the screenRect

But you probably know this and probably can?t hack into the standalone to edit the scripts.

Looking in the HyperCard reference manual for 2.3.5 and I see these two sections Moving and resizing the card window and Working with large cards that seems to have the solution to fit your needs.

I found that these are also in that site.
https://cancel.fm/stuff/share/HyperCard_Reference_1.pdf  so It should work for HyperCard 1.0 too


Hope this works

Martin
Moving and resizing the card window

Each HyperCard stack opens in a window. A HyperCard window always displays only one card at a time. This section explains how to change the size of a card window and move it around on the screen.

A HyperCard window is different from a standard Macintosh window in that it has neither scroll bars nor a visible size box.

Moving a card window

You move a HyperCard window around on the screen the same way you move any Macintosh window?by dragging its title bar.

Chapter 1: Using HyperCard 1-35

....................................

Resizing a card window

You can easily change the size of a card window. Resizing the card window doesn?t change the size of the card; it only changes how much of the card you can see. If you make the card window smaller than the card, you see only part of the card. You can see the entire card, if your screen is large enough, by making the card window the same size as the card. (The next section, ?Viewing Large Cards,? explains how to view cards that are larger than your screen.)

To change the size of the card window, you can either resize the card window directly or resize it via the Scroll window.

To resize a card window directly, follow these steps:

	? Pressx-Shift-E.
A size box appears in the lower-right corner of the window.

	? Drag the size box to resize the window:

When you release the mouse button, the size box disappears. If you want to resize the window several times in succession, x-drag the size box until the window is the size you want it.

? Note: You can?t make the card window larger than the card itself. ? To resize a card window by using the Scroll window, follow these steps:

1. Choose Scroll from the Go menu (or press x-E). The Scroll window appears.


1-36 Chapter 1: Using HyperCard

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

2. Drag from any edge or corner of the rectangle (or the blank region, if there?s no rectangle) inside the Scroll window.

When you move the pointer over the edges and corners of the rectangle, it becomes a double-headed arrow. Drag with the double-headed arrow to resize the card window.

  
Resizing the card window vertically

n

The rectangle represents the card window.

When you resize this rectangle, the card window is resized.

To make the card window the same size as the card, you can either double-click inside the Scroll window, or click the zoom box of the card window. (If the card is larger than your screen, the card window becomes about the same size as the screen.)

To hide the Scroll window, click its close box or press x-E.

  
Resizing the card window diagonally

Chapter 1: Using HyperCard 1-37

 

Working with large cards

When you?re working with a stack whose cards are larger than the screen, you can see only a portion of a card at a time. To look at other parts of a card that is larger than the screen, you can use either of the following techniques:

	? Press x-Shift-E and then drag the card around using the hand pointer ( ). The pointer turns into the hand when it is over the card. When you release the mouse button, the hand disappears. To move around the card several times in succession, press and hold the x key until you?re finished.

	? Open the Scroll window by choosing Scroll from the Go menu, or by pressing x-E. Then use the Scroll window to scroll to other parts of the card.

To scroll to other parts of the card, drag from the middle of the rectangle.

The pointer becomes a hand when it?s in the middle of the rectangle.

? You can work with small windows as well.
techniques to view any card when the window is smaller than the card. (?Moving and Resizing the Card Window? in Chapter 1 explains how to resize the card window.) ?

To limit the scrolling to either horizontal or vertical movement, hold down the Shift key while you drag.

  
5-6

Chapter 5: Working with Cards and Backgrounds

The blank area represents the entire card.

The rectangle inside the blank region represents the part of the card you see on your screen.


You can also use either of these

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

To hide the Scroll window, click its close box or press x-E.

? Keep the card window no larger than the screen. When you?re working with a stack whose cards are larger than the screen, keep the card window small enough to fit on the screen. If you make the card window larger than the screen, you can?t scroll around to see all the parts of the card. (See ?Changing the Size of Cards? in Chapter 4 for instructions on making the cards smaller.) ? 

 




Regards,

Martin Koob





> On May 2, 2020, at 9:15 PM, doc hawk via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> On May 2, 2020, at 4:46 PM, Colin Holgate via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> That is the whole reference guide. I have physical copies of that! Was there a particular part that might help with the ?maximize? card size problem?
> 
> 
> I was thinking the menu reference, but that didn?t survive pasting the link .  I was thinking at about 1-36 on resizing the card window.
> 
> I remember that I *did* this stuff.
> 
> And thinking again, I believe you could specify size in code in 1.x, at least on a larger screen.  It *must* have been possible, as there was a single stack, and I created page size stacks for printing forms.
> 
> But it?s been, uhm, over 30 years, now that I think of it . . .
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat May  2 22:09:01 2020
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat, 2 May 2020 19:09:01 -0700
Subject: Most obscure HC question
In-Reply-To: <F98980F5-7792-4EE8-9A8E-1833B62D731C@rogers.com>
References: <F98980F5-7792-4EE8-9A8E-1833B62D731C@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <ea9c9dfe-bb8e-f6a0-b0dc-37a8edd62b83@fourthworld.com>

What happens if you make a copy of the HC standalone file, delete the 
resources, and change the file's type fom 'APPL' to 'STAK'?

Can you then open the remaining data fork in an older version of LC to 
bring it into the modern world?

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun May  3 00:29:41 2020
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sat, 2 May 2020 23:29:41 -0500
Subject: Most obscure HC question
In-Reply-To: <689298F7-73D9-497A-8850-2FDC08E42813@gmail.com>
References: <689298F7-73D9-497A-8850-2FDC08E42813@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5bffd484-dcd9-1e6c-cf10-227d4f1d2797@hyperactivesw.com>

On 5/2/20 6:04 PM, Colin Holgate via use-livecode wrote:
> As it?s a standalone application I can?t easily get at the stack, but feel sure there was a way to hack the stack out of a standalone.

There was, only I can't remember the details either. But I do remember that there was a fairly 
clear division between the stack content and tacked-on engine, and if you knew what to look for 
you could delete the engine part in a text editor and end up with a working stack.

The thing I can't remember is what to look for as the delimiter. But it would probably be clear 
if I could find one of my old HC standalones, which I can't.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun May  3 00:37:07 2020
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat, 2 May 2020 21:37:07 -0700
Subject: Most obscure HC question
In-Reply-To: <5bffd484-dcd9-1e6c-cf10-227d4f1d2797@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <5bffd484-dcd9-1e6c-cf10-227d4f1d2797@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <9279d596-4e77-d4b2-6c26-fba76ae1d023@fourthworld.com>

J. Landman Gay wrote:

On 5/2/20 6:04 PM, Colin Holgate via use-livecode wrote:
 >> As it?s a standalone application I can?t easily get at the stack,
 >> but feel sure there was a way to hack the stack out of a standalone.
 >
 > There was, only I can't remember the details either. But I do remember
 > that there was a fairly clear division between the stack content and
 > tacked-on engine, and if you knew what to look for you could delete
 > the engine part in a text editor and end up with a working stack.

In Mac OS (as opposed to the modern macOS), an application kept its code 
in 'CODE' resources, with the resource of ID 0 containing the main entry 
point.

So...

http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2020-May/260175.html

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun May  3 00:38:29 2020
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sat, 2 May 2020 23:38:29 -0500
Subject: Most obscure HC question
In-Reply-To: <ea9c9dfe-bb8e-f6a0-b0dc-37a8edd62b83@fourthworld.com>
References: <F98980F5-7792-4EE8-9A8E-1833B62D731C@rogers.com>
 <ea9c9dfe-bb8e-f6a0-b0dc-37a8edd62b83@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <4cb6cbfd-cdf5-ccfb-3868-ef68e51aa4a8@hyperactivesw.com>

On 5/2/20 9:09 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
> What happens if you make a copy of the HC standalone file, delete the resources, and change the 
> file's type fom 'APPL' to 'STAK'?
> 
> Can you then open the remaining data fork in an older version of LC to bring it into the modern 
> world?
> 

The thing I just sent was wrong. This way is right. Thirty years...

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From waprothero at gmail.com  Sun May  3 00:38:33 2020
From: waprothero at gmail.com (William Prothero)
Date: Sat, 2 May 2020 21:38:33 -0700
Subject: Is it possible to get the clicked cell for a table field, if the
 table is empty?
In-Reply-To: <18FFF5E5-25C3-4375-A9F8-06D6EE167164@livecode.org>
References: <029A743B-022D-4167-9C5A-0A2D3715BF82@iotecdigital.com>
 <0FEBF659-8C28-4E8A-B512-AE1EA24725A8@gmail.com>
 <18FFF5E5-25C3-4375-A9F8-06D6EE167164@livecode.org>
Message-ID: <845A0829-9A68-46B4-8DF1-2E00289F03FB@gmail.com>

Paul:
Well, I?ve gotten so many good tips from Mike. He is amazing! I never would have found that one.

Yes, it does actually work.

Thanks!
Bill

William A. Prothero
https://earthlearningsolutions.org

> On May 2, 2020, at 5:38 PM, Paul Hibbert via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Mike Bonner posted this back on the 14th February 2020?
> 
> Found an interesting behavior.. I was trying to set up a custom control
> that keeps track of the current row and column and put the script in the
> group, but rawkeyup or rawkeydown messages never reach the group.  I'm
> wondering if its because the message is sent to the figmentary popup field
> rather than the table field, and that the popup is not part of the group.
> But "the target" refers to the table field itself, so i'm not sure thats
> whats happening.  Either way.. The following script works when put into a
> card or stack, NOT group, and not in the table field itself.  Kinda freaky
> that the message is sent, just not to where I expect, despite "the target"
> still pointing back at the table field.
> 
> on mouseup
>  getline
>  pass mouseup
> end mouseup
> on rawkeyup
>  getline
>  pass rawkeyup
> end rawkeyup
> 
> command getline
>  if the short name of the focusedobject contains "revCell-" then
>  put the short name of the focusedobject into tName
>  replace "revCell-" with empty in tname
>  set the cCol of the target to item 1 of tName
>  set the cRow of the target to item 2 of tName
>  end if
> end getline
> 
> I just tried a quick test and tName has the cell row and column.
> 
> Paul
> 
>> On May 1, 2020, at 22:21, William Prothero via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Folks:
>> I have an app that requires that I be able to get the cell row and column when I click on the cell. I know a dataGrid can do this, but is it possible with a table field? I know I can get the clicked line, but what about the cell, when the table is empty.
>> 
>> I use, to get the line (from the lessons), but it only returns the line number: 
>> on mouseUp
>> 
>> put the clickline into msg
>> 
>> put return & value (the clickline) after msg
>> 
>> set the itemdelimiter to tab
>> 
>> put return & item 1 of value (the clickline) && item 2 of value (the clickline) after msg
>> 
>> end mouseUp
>> 
>> Tnx for any suggestions.
>> Bill
>> 
>> William A. Prothero
>> https://earthlearningsolutions.org
>> 
>>> On May 1, 2020, at 5:49 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi all. 
>>> 
>>> I?m gonna say that script only stacks cannot have behaviors eh? Reason is, I?d like to move my nested data grid behavior to a script only stack, but it occurs to me this might break the datagrid, since it?s next level behavior is the old data grid behavior button (not sure why that?s still there) then the actual script only datagrid library. 
>>> 
>>> Bob S
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun May  3 00:42:38 2020
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sat, 2 May 2020 23:42:38 -0500
Subject: FormattedHeight
In-Reply-To: <1912a4c3-7e73-d7d8-1ca4-e927acb35373@fourthworld.com>
References: <171d66c50b8.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <1912a4c3-7e73-d7d8-1ca4-e927acb35373@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <2a4c6541-94d9-9192-e65b-c5e5a7d02bcd@hyperactivesw.com>

On 5/2/20 8:20 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
> LiveCode is nearly unmatched for making desktop apps, but for mobile development there are so 
> many unfinished edges it's barely a contender for anyone not already heavily invested in 
> LiveCode from desktop work.
> 
> It would be reassuring if the LC team could share with us their plan to finish their mobile 
> implementation, to deliver a user experience on par with its best-of-breed desktop workflows.

That's what widgets are for. There are native fields and buttons, though some are still 
missing, but not enough people are writing them. And unfortunately, mobile GUIs change often 
enough on both Android and iOS that the native buttons aren't so native any more.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From livfoss at mac.com  Sun May  3 06:04:01 2020
From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel)
Date: Sun, 3 May 2020 12:04:01 +0200
Subject: FormattedHeight
In-Reply-To: <2a4c6541-94d9-9192-e65b-c5e5a7d02bcd@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <171d66c50b8.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <1912a4c3-7e73-d7d8-1ca4-e927acb35373@fourthworld.com>
 <2a4c6541-94d9-9192-e65b-c5e5a7d02bcd@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <FB6B5D60-8F37-4BD9-AEFF-29B4F9D883EC@mac.com>

I agree that that?s what Widgets are for, but I don?t think there?s been enough input from the mother ship to ensure that all published widgets look as much as possible like ?normal? LC objects, with the expected properties and full documentation. Obviously some are very powerful and useful and amount to nice little bits of software one can slip into a program, like for example the  browser or even the clock - but some are so mysterious that they are unusable. Heather recently told me that there is some hidden documentation and examples of some of the ?Mg' series, which seems kind of ludicrous. 

But my main point is that anything which ends up appearing on a screen should have all the usual properties like colours, tooltips etc - several of the things that I?ve been trying to use lack the most simple properties and therefore seem very ?foreign?, which surely is counter-productive. As I see it, widgets are intended to be a way of integrating new objects and capabilities into LC without needing changes in the engine. I think that the technical foundation is good but the implementation and presentation up to now is not sufficiently mature.

Just my two locked-down Eurocents.

Graham

> On 3 May 2020, at 06:42, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> On 5/2/20 8:20 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
>> LiveCode is nearly unmatched for making desktop apps, but for mobile development there are so many unfinished edges it's barely a contender for anyone not already heavily invested in LiveCode from desktop work.
>> It would be reassuring if the LC team could share with us their plan to finish their mobile implementation, to deliver a user experience on par with its best-of-breed desktop workflows.
> 
> That's what widgets are for. There are native fields and buttons, though some are still missing, but not enough people are writing them. And unfortunately, mobile GUIs change often enough on both Android and iOS that the native buttons aren't so native any more.
> 
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From alex at tweedly.net  Sun May  3 10:20:50 2020
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Sun, 3 May 2020 15:20:50 +0100
Subject: Group resizing.
Message-ID: <2217e04f-2ee2-f838-3aef-756cfb45495e@tweedly.net>

I realized after the discussion last week about resizing that I was 
missing the benefits of "resizeControl" being sent to each group, so I 
changed one of my resize handlers to make use of groups (adding a few 
groups along the way).

And it all went wrong :-(

Eventually I traced it down to the following ... and don't know if I'm 
missing something or if I've bumped into a bug.

The resize handler is

> on resizeControl
> ?? set the width of field "list titles" of me to the width of me - 20
> ?? put "B" && the rect of me && the bottom of me &CR after msg
> ?? set the left of field "list titles" of me to 10
> ?? put "C" && the rect of me && the bottom of me &CR after msg
> ?? local tR
> ?? put 10, the top of me, the right of me -10, the bottom of me-10 into tR
> ?? set the rect of fld "List" of me to tR
> end resizeControl

Note the two "put ... msg" statements. - for no reason I can figure out, 
the "bottom of me" changes between these two statements. Here's the 
output from the message box:

> B 5,32,331,468 468
> C 6,32,325,2618 2618
> B 5,32,331,471 471
> C 5,32,320,2622 2622
> B 5,32,331,473 473
> C 5,32,320,2626 2626
>
If I comment out that "set the left of ..." statement, all apparently 
works as expected.

Why should setting the 'left' of a control change the bottom of its 
enclosing group ?

And why change it to an apparently silly value ?

-- Alex.




From hakan at exformedia.se  Sun May  3 10:26:38 2020
From: hakan at exformedia.se (hakan at exformedia.se)
Date: Sun, 3 May 2020 16:26:38 +0200
Subject: Group resizing.
In-Reply-To: <2217e04f-2ee2-f838-3aef-756cfb45495e@tweedly.net>
References: <2217e04f-2ee2-f838-3aef-756cfb45495e@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <155d4e56-5b41-4a85-9caa-9d1c84a0ba7a@Spark>

You probably need to lock messages in the beginning of your resizeControl. Otherwise the group will adapt to your resizing of your controls. I usually begin with both lock messages and lock screen, but the last is more for optimization.

H?kan
On 3 May 2020, 16:22 +0200, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
> I realized after the discussion last week about resizing that I was
> missing the benefits of "resizeControl" being sent to each group, so I
> changed one of my resize handlers to make use of groups (adding a few
> groups along the way).
>
> And it all went wrong :-(
>
> Eventually I traced it down to the following ... and don't know if I'm
> missing something or if I've bumped into a bug.
>
> The resize handler is
>
> > on resizeControl
> > ?? set the width of field "list titles" of me to the width of me - 20
> > ?? put "B" && the rect of me && the bottom of me &CR after msg
> > ?? set the left of field "list titles" of me to 10
> > ?? put "C" && the rect of me && the bottom of me &CR after msg
> > ?? local tR
> > ?? put 10, the top of me, the right of me -10, the bottom of me-10 into tR
> > ?? set the rect of fld "List" of me to tR
> > end resizeControl
>
> Note the two "put ... msg" statements. - for no reason I can figure out,
> the "bottom of me" changes between these two statements. Here's the
> output from the message box:
>
> > B 5,32,331,468 468
> > C 6,32,325,2618 2618
> > B 5,32,331,471 471
> > C 5,32,320,2622 2622
> > B 5,32,331,473 473
> > C 5,32,320,2626 2626
> >
> If I comment out that "set the left of ..." statement, all apparently
> works as expected.
>
> Why should setting the 'left' of a control change the bottom of its
> enclosing group ?
>
> And why change it to an apparently silly value ?
>
> -- Alex.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From brian at milby7.com  Sun May  3 11:38:40 2020
From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby)
Date: Sun, 3 May 2020 11:38:40 -0400
Subject: Group resizing.
In-Reply-To: <155d4e56-5b41-4a85-9caa-9d1c84a0ba7a@Spark>
References: <2217e04f-2ee2-f838-3aef-756cfb45495e@tweedly.net>
 <155d4e56-5b41-4a85-9caa-9d1c84a0ba7a@Spark>
Message-ID: <268afdad-bc91-41d9-90b9-638fbb381193@Spark>

Do you have the group size/position locked (lockLocation property)? If not, moving a control could change the rect.

Thanks,
Brian
On May 3, 2020, 10:28 AM -0400, H?kan Liljegren via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
> You probably need to lock messages in the beginning of your resizeControl. Otherwise the group will adapt to your resizing of your controls. I usually begin with both lock messages and lock screen, but the last is more for optimization.
>
> H?kan
> On 3 May 2020, 16:22 +0200, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
> > I realized after the discussion last week about resizing that I was
> > missing the benefits of "resizeControl" being sent to each group, so I
> > changed one of my resize handlers to make use of groups (adding a few
> > groups along the way).
> >
> > And it all went wrong :-(
> >
> > Eventually I traced it down to the following ... and don't know if I'm
> > missing something or if I've bumped into a bug.
> >
> > The resize handler is
> >
> > > on resizeControl
> > > ?? set the width of field "list titles" of me to the width of me - 20
> > > ?? put "B" && the rect of me && the bottom of me &CR after msg
> > > ?? set the left of field "list titles" of me to 10
> > > ?? put "C" && the rect of me && the bottom of me &CR after msg
> > > ?? local tR
> > > ?? put 10, the top of me, the right of me -10, the bottom of me-10 into tR
> > > ?? set the rect of fld "List" of me to tR
> > > end resizeControl
> >
> > Note the two "put ... msg" statements. - for no reason I can figure out,
> > the "bottom of me" changes between these two statements. Here's the
> > output from the message box:
> >
> > > B 5,32,331,468 468
> > > C 6,32,325,2618 2618
> > > B 5,32,331,471 471
> > > C 5,32,320,2622 2622
> > > B 5,32,331,473 473
> > > C 5,32,320,2626 2626
> > >
> > If I comment out that "set the left of ..." statement, all apparently
> > works as expected.
> >
> > Why should setting the 'left' of a control change the bottom of its
> > enclosing group ?
> >
> > And why change it to an apparently silly value ?
> >
> > -- Alex.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From craig at starfirelighting.com  Sun May  3 11:40:21 2020
From: craig at starfirelighting.com (Craig Newman)
Date: Sun, 3 May 2020 11:40:21 -0400
Subject: Most obscure HC question
In-Reply-To: <689298F7-73D9-497A-8850-2FDC08E42813@gmail.com>
References: <689298F7-73D9-497A-8850-2FDC08E42813@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A01B53D1-A192-442E-BBF3-05250C94A905@starfirelighting.com>

Can you explicitly set the text of the card in an openCard handler?

Craig Newman 

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 2, 2020, at 7:06 PM, Colin Holgate via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> ?I fear that the HyperCard group in Yahoo may be lost. Please let me know if that isn?t true.
> 
> But between you all you may remember something that will help me. I have a standalone HC application, and it opens with a window that shows that you are only seeing part of the card window. The card window doesn?t resize, and I can?t remember how to make it be bigger. Here?s things that didn?t work:
> 
> Setting a ton of memory.
> Setting Monitors to match the card size.
> Resizing the preview rectangle. You can only resize it smaller.
> Resizing the card window.
> Clicking the zoom box.
> 
> As it?s a standalone application I can?t easily get at the stack, but feel sure there was a way to hack the stack out of a standalone.
> 
> Anyway, please enjoy the challenge of remembering this far back!
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From colinholgate at gmail.com  Sun May  3 13:34:09 2020
From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate)
Date: Sun, 3 May 2020 11:34:09 -0600
Subject: Most obscure HC question
In-Reply-To: <A01B53D1-A192-442E-BBF3-05250C94A905@starfirelighting.com>
References: <689298F7-73D9-497A-8850-2FDC08E42813@gmail.com>
 <A01B53D1-A192-442E-BBF3-05250C94A905@starfirelighting.com>
Message-ID: <DEC866A5-10A6-4B2F-A451-93098B5D3E59@gmail.com>

Thanks for the suggestions.

The ideas about resizing the card window is what I had already tried. The scroller window only allows the window to be made smaller, it won?t go bigger. Double clicking in the scroller makes the card window hide or show, it doesn?t do the expected make the window the size of the card.

I had tried changing the APPL to STAK, and that does let me open it in HyperCard. The card window is the correct size when I do that. The stack ends up locking up though, because it does use xcmds, and those are resources in the standalone app version, they?re not in HyperCard.

Deleting most of the resources, not the xcmdd and xfcns, does make the stack work in HyperCard, but I lost a lot of the graphics doing that.

I found that I could edit the script using a hex editor, and put in a line to set the size of the card (replacing a line that wasn?t vital). That broke the stack, but I may try it again.

I added script to show the message box, but it seems that the standalone player doesn?t include the HyperTalk interpreter, attempts to set the rect of the card failed, as would anything I typed.

I will keep trying other ideas.


> On May 3, 2020, at 9:40 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Can you explicitly set the text of the card in an openCard handler?
> 
> Craig Newman 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On May 2, 2020, at 7:06 PM, Colin Holgate via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> ?I fear that the HyperCard group in Yahoo may be lost. Please let me know if that isn?t true.
>> 
>> But between you all you may remember something that will help me. I have a standalone HC application, and it opens with a window that shows that you are only seeing part of the card window. The card window doesn?t resize, and I can?t remember how to make it be bigger. Here?s things that didn?t work:
>> 
>> Setting a ton of memory.
>> Setting Monitors to match the card size.
>> Resizing the preview rectangle. You can only resize it smaller.
>> Resizing the card window.
>> Clicking the zoom box.
>> 
>> As it?s a standalone application I can?t easily get at the stack, but feel sure there was a way to hack the stack out of a standalone.
>> 
>> Anyway, please enjoy the challenge of remembering this far back!
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From jeejeestudio at gmail.com  Sun May  3 12:56:30 2020
From: jeejeestudio at gmail.com (JeeJeeStudio)
Date: Sun, 3 May 2020 18:56:30 +0200
Subject: DataView and DataView Tree Updates
In-Reply-To: <CAHg3tG-Ai8METn1kD3T2__xLcLyhd2-R6q9aeB9biD5tJvbf7w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHg3tG-Ai8METn1kD3T2__xLcLyhd2-R6q9aeB9biD5tJvbf7w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5157caba-87e6-a5ac-47c5-fc593197baed@gmail.com>

Thanks!

Going to take a look.


Op 2-5-2020 om 19:42 schreef Trevor DeVore via use-livecode:
> Hi,
>
> I've updated the DataView and DataView Tree code in my GitHub repos with a
> script that will load all of the necessary files for developers who are not
> using the Levure framework. You will find updated instructions in the
> README, a link to the latest release, and a link to a demo project showing
> what they can do at the following links:
>
> https://github.com/trevordevore/levurehelper-dataview
>
> https://github.com/trevordevore/levurehelper-dataview_tree
>



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sun May  3 13:58:30 2020
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sun, 3 May 2020 10:58:30 -0700
Subject: FormattedHeight
In-Reply-To: <2a4c6541-94d9-9192-e65b-c5e5a7d02bcd@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <2a4c6541-94d9-9192-e65b-c5e5a7d02bcd@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <f2d716dd-889e-0e3e-6636-cf8e381031fd@fourthworld.com>

J. Landman Gay wrote:

 > On 5/2/20 8:20 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
 >> LiveCode is nearly unmatched for making desktop apps, but for
 >> mobile development there are so many unfinished edges it's barely
 >> a contender for anyone not already heavily invested in LiveCode
 >> from desktop work.
 >>
 >> It would be reassuring if the LC team could share with us their
 >> plan to finish their mobile implementation, to deliver a user
 >> experience on par with its best-of-breed desktop workflows.
 >
 > That's what widgets are for.

Are they?

Widgets are great for specialized functionality not in the box.  But 
crafting custom widgets should not be seen as a replacement for 
essential common GUI elements.

Will you be solving your field display issue by writing your own text 
engine from scratch in a lower-level scripting language?

Should I tell that forum user that LiveCode doesn't provide common GUI 
essentials out-of-the-box?

Show of hands: how many of you would be using LiveCode today if the 
desktop editions required you to write your own common GUI controls from 
scratch?


 > There are native fields and buttons, though some are still
 > missing, but not enough people are writing them. And unfortunately,
 > mobile GUIs change often enough on both Android and iOS that the
 > native buttons aren't so native any more.

If/when this goes in the engine, it could be handled as it is on the 
desktop, with hooks into the host OS renderer.  Write once, render anywhere.

But at the moment, at a minimum the team could do what so many of us 
have done: write a library that walks through LC-native controls on the 
card and makes appropriate replacements/additions where needed for mobile.

When the script sees a group or field with scrollbars, it turns the 
scrollbars off so they're not visible and automatically creates the 
mobile-native scoller region to match it.

When the script sees a checkbox, it hides that and instantiates a 
mobile-native Boolean selector.

When the script sees an editable field, it hides that and creates an 
editable field matching those properties in its place.

Pinch-to-zoom on images becomes a property, so those interactions invoke 
a good-but-difficult-to-find-buried-in-the-forums-script to handle that 
(the Lesson on that is woefully incorrect).

In each case, message handlers route mobile-native messages to their 
LC-native counterparts.  This lets you script using LC objects without 
having to type out control defs in code like you're a C programmer from 
1993.  And it lets you enjoy one of the finest benefits of The xTalk 
Way: blurring the line between development and runtime so you spend more 
time developing your app in the environment designed for developing.

This won't handle all possible circumstances, but will remove the most 
serious pain points from at least 80% of LC's uniquely odd mobile 
development workflows.

This could be done today.  It could have been done many years ago.  Many 
of us have been replicating this for years.


That would reduce the most common pain points, but still wouldn't 
address your need to scroll field text whose formatted height exceeds 
32765px.

For that we need some engine work, to finally be done with the 
frankly-bizarre requirement that a perfectly good field needs to be 
wrapped inside of a group just to scroll smoothly.

We don't need that strange and unpredictable extra step on the desktop, 
and that we need it on mobile is not a feature, it's a bug, a 
shortcoming that I hope the engine team has a plan to address.

LiveCode on the desktop is flippin' awesome.  LiveCode on mobile can be 
every bit as awesome, and needs to be if it's to remain relevant in a 
world of simpler competitors.

The current workflow requirements undo the otherwise-powerful benefits 
of using LC on mobile for many newcomers.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com






From jeejeestudio at gmail.com  Sun May  3 13:10:23 2020
From: jeejeestudio at gmail.com (JeeJeeStudio)
Date: Sun, 3 May 2020 19:10:23 +0200
Subject: DataView and DataView Tree Updates
In-Reply-To: <CAHg3tG-Ai8METn1kD3T2__xLcLyhd2-R6q9aeB9biD5tJvbf7w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHg3tG-Ai8METn1kD3T2__xLcLyhd2-R6q9aeB9biD5tJvbf7w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c164d1b1-7160-f1df-9ea3-dfb3ff51e970@gmail.com>

Hi Trevore,


FYI

your dataview demo throws an error on line 313: it's missing an before 
or into or after:

probably an into

*put _rowOfId(tId) tRow*

put _rowOfId(tId) into Row


Op 2-5-2020 om 19:42 schreef Trevor DeVore via use-livecode:
> Hi,
>
> I've updated the DataView and DataView Tree code in my GitHub repos with a
> script that will load all of the necessary files for developers who are not
> using the Levure framework. You will find updated instructions in the
> README, a link to the latest release, and a link to a demo project showing
> what they can do at the following links:
>
> https://github.com/trevordevore/levurehelper-dataview
>
> https://github.com/trevordevore/levurehelper-dataview_tree
>



From alex at tweedly.net  Sun May  3 14:13:19 2020
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Sun, 3 May 2020 19:13:19 +0100
Subject: Group resizing.
In-Reply-To: <155d4e56-5b41-4a85-9caa-9d1c84a0ba7a@Spark>
References: <2217e04f-2ee2-f838-3aef-756cfb45495e@tweedly.net>
 <155d4e56-5b41-4a85-9caa-9d1c84a0ba7a@Spark>
Message-ID: <c93cc545-8767-cca1-ed93-b5faf3269dcf@tweedly.net>

Thanks, but no, I can't do that. lock messages will prevent the 
"resizeControl" being fired for any sub-groups whose co-ordinates get 
changed, so it would prevent proper layout for them. 'lock messages' is 
good if you have all your controls directly re-positioned within your 
resize handler - but disallows hierarchy (which is the feature I'm 
trying to take advantage of here).

lock screen is of course a good optimization - thanks.

Alex.

On 03/05/2020 15:26, hakan at exformedia.se wrote:
> You probably need to lock messages in the beginning of your 
> resizeControl. Otherwise the group will adapt to your resizing of your 
> controls. I usually begin with both lock messages and lock screen, but 
> the last is more for optimization.
>
> H?kan
> On 3 May 2020, 16:22 +0200, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode 
> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
>> I realized after the discussion last week about resizing that I was
>> missing the benefits of "resizeControl" being sent to each group, so I
>> changed one of my resize handlers to make use of groups (adding a few
>> groups along the way).
>>
>> And it all went wrong :-(
>>
>> Eventually I traced it down to the following ... and don't know if I'm
>> missing something or if I've bumped into a bug.
>>
>> The resize handler is
>>
>>> on resizeControl
>>> ?? set the width of field "list titles" of me to the width of me - 20
>>> ?? put "B" && the rect of me && the bottom of me &CR after msg
>>> ?? set the left of field "list titles" of me to 10
>>> ?? put "C" && the rect of me && the bottom of me &CR after msg
>>> ?? local tR
>>> ?? put 10, the top of me, the right of me -10, the bottom of me-10 
>>> into tR
>>> ?? set the rect of fld "List" of me to tR
>>> end resizeControl
>>
>> Note the two "put ... msg" statements. - for no reason I can figure out,
>> the "bottom of me" changes between these two statements. Here's the
>> output from the message box:
>>
>>> B 5,32,331,468 468
>>> C 6,32,325,2618 2618
>>> B 5,32,331,471 471
>>> C 5,32,320,2622 2622
>>> B 5,32,331,473 473
>>> C 5,32,320,2626 2626
>>>
>> If I comment out that "set the left of ..." statement, all apparently
>> works as expected.
>>
>> Why should setting the 'left' of a control change the bottom of its
>> enclosing group ?
>>
>> And why change it to an apparently silly value ?
>>
>> -- Alex.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From alex at tweedly.net  Sun May  3 14:28:25 2020
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Sun, 3 May 2020 19:28:25 +0100
Subject: Group resizing.
In-Reply-To: <268afdad-bc91-41d9-90b9-638fbb381193@Spark>
References: <2217e04f-2ee2-f838-3aef-756cfb45495e@tweedly.net>
 <155d4e56-5b41-4a85-9caa-9d1c84a0ba7a@Spark>
 <268afdad-bc91-41d9-90b9-638fbb381193@Spark>
Message-ID: <2c634195-c2f9-890a-5a35-3ac3a9b84e39@tweedly.net>

No, I don't, and that's probably what I should be doing.

I had not expected that changing the LEFT of a control would change both 
X *and* Y coordinates of the enclosing group - but that is what seems to 
happen; and that at least makes sense - any change to the control causes 
an adjustment to both dimensions of the enclosing group.

The surprise now is that changing the WIDTH of that control (which I do 
in the previous statement), which also could change both left & right X 
coords of the control, didn't also have that effect. Maybe because in 
this case the width setting didn't actually change the values - so it 
optimized out actually setting them, or adjusting to allow for it.

Anyway - thanks Brian, I can now get back to my "10-minute cleanup task" 
that I started 8 hours ago :-)

Alex.

On 03/05/2020 16:38, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote:
> Do you have the group size/position locked (lockLocation property)? If not, moving a control could change the rect.
>
> Thanks,
> Brian
> On May 3, 2020, 10:28 AM -0400, H?kan Liljegren via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
>> You probably need to lock messages in the beginning of your resizeControl. Otherwise the group will adapt to your resizing of your controls. I usually begin with both lock messages and lock screen, but the last is more for optimization.
>>
>> H?kan
>> On 3 May 2020, 16:22 +0200, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
>>> I realized after the discussion last week about resizing that I was
>>> missing the benefits of "resizeControl" being sent to each group, so I
>>> changed one of my resize handlers to make use of groups (adding a few
>>> groups along the way).
>>>
>>> And it all went wrong :-(
>>>
>>> Eventually I traced it down to the following ... and don't know if I'm
>>> missing something or if I've bumped into a bug.
>>>
>>> The resize handler is
>>>
>>>> on resizeControl
>>>>  ?? set the width of field "list titles" of me to the width of me - 20
>>>>  ?? put "B" && the rect of me && the bottom of me &CR after msg
>>>>  ?? set the left of field "list titles" of me to 10
>>>>  ?? put "C" && the rect of me && the bottom of me &CR after msg
>>>>  ?? local tR
>>>>  ?? put 10, the top of me, the right of me -10, the bottom of me-10 into tR
>>>>  ?? set the rect of fld "List" of me to tR
>>>> end resizeControl
>>> Note the two "put ... msg" statements. - for no reason I can figure out,
>>> the "bottom of me" changes between these two statements. Here's the
>>> output from the message box:
>>>
>>>> B 5,32,331,468 468
>>>> C 6,32,325,2618 2618
>>>> B 5,32,331,471 471
>>>> C 5,32,320,2622 2622
>>>> B 5,32,331,473 473
>>>> C 5,32,320,2626 2626
>>>>
>>> If I comment out that "set the left of ..." statement, all apparently
>>> works as expected.
>>>
>>> Why should setting the 'left' of a control change the bottom of its
>>> enclosing group ?
>>>
>>> And why change it to an apparently silly value ?
>>>
>>> -- Alex.
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Sun May  3 17:00:14 2020
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Sun, 3 May 2020 16:00:14 -0500
Subject: DataView and DataView Tree Updates
In-Reply-To: <c164d1b1-7160-f1df-9ea3-dfb3ff51e970@gmail.com>
References: <CAHg3tG-Ai8METn1kD3T2__xLcLyhd2-R6q9aeB9biD5tJvbf7w@mail.gmail.com>
 <c164d1b1-7160-f1df-9ea3-dfb3ff51e970@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHg3tG_-m8BHj9n29dCkE2kXrmBO3sEJQnOnfmPqzRNGBXFBuQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 1:11 PM JeeJeeStudio via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> your dataview demo throws an error on line 313: it's missing an before
> or into or after:
>

I just downloaded the version 0.4.0 from the Releases page and don't get
any errors.

https://github.com/trevordevore/dataview_demo/releases

Can you provide some more details about what you tested? There was a
missing "into" int the dataview_dbcursor submdoule but that was fixed
before I posted the update. Here is the commit:

https://github.com/trevordevore/levurehelper-database_dbcursor/commit/59cba88e26c17dac819f7137054868b71dcf6617

-- 
Trevor DeVore
ScreenSteps - https://www.screensteps.com
Levure App Framework for LiveCode - https://github.com/trevordevore/levure/
LiveCode Repos -
https://github.com/search?q=user%3Atrevordevore+topic:livecode
LiveCode Builder Repos -
https://github.com/search?q=user%3Atrevordevore+topic:livecode-builder


From scott at elementarysoftware.com  Sun May  3 20:37:19 2020
From: scott at elementarysoftware.com (scott at elementarysoftware.com)
Date: Sun, 3 May 2020 17:37:19 -0700
Subject: Group resizing.
In-Reply-To: <2c634195-c2f9-890a-5a35-3ac3a9b84e39@tweedly.net>
References: <2217e04f-2ee2-f838-3aef-756cfb45495e@tweedly.net>
 <155d4e56-5b41-4a85-9caa-9d1c84a0ba7a@Spark>
 <268afdad-bc91-41d9-90b9-638fbb381193@Spark>
 <2c634195-c2f9-890a-5a35-3ac3a9b84e39@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <4EC35ED4-4ED7-4E8F-BE51-509EA5B2A86E@elementarysoftware.com>

Oh good, I was hoping I wasn?t the only one.

?
Scott


> On May 3, 2020, at 11:28 AM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> <snip>

> I can now get back to my "10-minute cleanup task" that I started 8 hours ago :-)
> 
> Alex.




From david.bovill at gmail.com  Mon May  4 05:09:10 2020
From: david.bovill at gmail.com (David Bovill)
Date: Mon, 4 May 2020 10:09:10 +0100
Subject: Group resizing.
In-Reply-To: <4EC35ED4-4ED7-4E8F-BE51-509EA5B2A86E@elementarysoftware.com>
References: <2217e04f-2ee2-f838-3aef-756cfb45495e@tweedly.net>
 <155d4e56-5b41-4a85-9caa-9d1c84a0ba7a@Spark>
 <268afdad-bc91-41d9-90b9-638fbb381193@Spark>
 <2c634195-c2f9-890a-5a35-3ac3a9b84e39@tweedly.net>
 <4EC35ED4-4ED7-4E8F-BE51-509EA5B2A86E@elementarysoftware.com>
Message-ID: <1d9e6fd0-879d-41c3-8a8e-eed1f2525e55@Spark>

Trying to understand this thread. I?ve been doing nested group resizing for all my work now for several years - it has been difficult often to debug track errors because of all the nested messages.

As a result I?ve had to make a bunch of tools to test each nested element before they are combined, and also I?ve developed a consistent style of doing it - which may mean that I?m not coming across the issue you report.

My suggestion Alex is the only way to explore this is to jump into a Zoom where we can share practice and see visually the issue? It would also be more fun at this time if lock down?

Feel free to pick a time if that appeals - I got nothing better to do :)

? https://woven.com/c/david62/pairprogramming

On 4 May 2020, 01:38 +0100, scott--- via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
> Oh good, I was hoping I wasn?t the only one.
>
> ?
> Scott
>
>
> > On May 3, 2020, at 11:28 AM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > <snip>
>
> > I can now get back to my "10-minute cleanup task" that I started 8 hours ago :-)
> >
> > Alex.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From jeejeestudio at gmail.com  Mon May  4 05:05:51 2020
From: jeejeestudio at gmail.com (JeeJeeStudio)
Date: Mon, 4 May 2020 11:05:51 +0200
Subject: DataView and DataView Tree Updates
In-Reply-To: <CAHg3tG_-m8BHj9n29dCkE2kXrmBO3sEJQnOnfmPqzRNGBXFBuQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHg3tG-Ai8METn1kD3T2__xLcLyhd2-R6q9aeB9biD5tJvbf7w@mail.gmail.com>
 <c164d1b1-7160-f1df-9ea3-dfb3ff51e970@gmail.com>
 <CAHg3tG_-m8BHj9n29dCkE2kXrmBO3sEJQnOnfmPqzRNGBXFBuQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3f8d681e-0856-f68d-ef91-372f67bab287@gmail.com>

It's line 313 of the stack script of dataview_dbcursor.livecodescript

i downloaded 0.4.0, but files inside where from 20-09-2019

so will download again, maybe i clicked the wrong zip


Op 3-5-2020 om 23:00 schreef Trevor DeVore via use-livecode:
> On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 1:11 PM JeeJeeStudio via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> your dataview demo throws an error on line 313: it's missing an before
>> or into or after:
>>
> I just downloaded the version 0.4.0 from the Releases page and don't get
> any errors.
>
> https://github.com/trevordevore/dataview_demo/releases
>
> Can you provide some more details about what you tested? There was a
> missing "into" int the dataview_dbcursor submdoule but that was fixed
> before I posted the update. Here is the commit:
>
> https://github.com/trevordevore/levurehelper-database_dbcursor/commit/59cba88e26c17dac819f7137054868b71dcf6617
>



From livfoss at mac.com  Mon May  4 08:06:52 2020
From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel)
Date: Mon, 4 May 2020 14:06:52 +0200
Subject: Has anyone experience of GPS on iPhone?
Message-ID: <3F58E6C5-6A9B-40B8-891C-C070D7C68155@mac.com>

I?m using GPS on iPhone using the various commands and functions available in LC. Most of this works, but I am having difficulty with the quantity ?horizontal accuracy?. This can be queried via an array which is returned when mobileCurrentLocation() is executed. 

Looking at other iOS apps that use GPS and allow one to examine their data, I find that in my part of the world, accuracy for them is of the order of 5 metres: but when I query it using LC I get much higher numbers, indeed some of them look like nonsense, being hundreds of metres!

I am aware that it takes time for a GPS signal to settle down after mobileStartTrackingSensor ?location? has been called, but even if I script the examination of accuracy to wait for it to settle down (I look for a run of similar or identical readings against a ?reasonable? criterion, such as 5 metres), it still sometimes settles on very large numbers comparatively speaking, for example it might stabilise at 65 metres. With that level of inaccuracy any cumulative use, as in working out the number of kilometres in a trip, would not be reliable.

I wonder if my expectation is wrong, or if there is something different about LC?s encapsulation of these iOS outputs, or if there is some other explanation.

In the short term, I?m simply going to have to relax my search for a reasonable accuracy of the order of 5 metres, and just go for the first run of stable readings. But I would love to hear any further insight from anyone who?s already tried it.

Graham

From alex at tweedly.net  Mon May  4 09:15:59 2020
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Mon, 4 May 2020 14:15:59 +0100
Subject: Group resizing.
In-Reply-To: <1d9e6fd0-879d-41c3-8a8e-eed1f2525e55@Spark>
References: <2217e04f-2ee2-f838-3aef-756cfb45495e@tweedly.net>
 <155d4e56-5b41-4a85-9caa-9d1c84a0ba7a@Spark>
 <268afdad-bc91-41d9-90b9-638fbb381193@Spark>
 <2c634195-c2f9-890a-5a35-3ac3a9b84e39@tweedly.net>
 <4EC35ED4-4ED7-4E8F-BE51-509EA5B2A86E@elementarysoftware.com>
 <1d9e6fd0-879d-41c3-8a8e-eed1f2525e55@Spark>
Message-ID: <68e6b74a-f0a9-a2e5-7acd-f6dfa8b56a5c@tweedly.net>

David,

thank you - that's a kind and generous offer to Zoom / pair on it. 
However, since the immediate problem is solved, I'd rather take a 
raincheck, and keep your offer in my back pocket for some future time I 
have a problem.

Summary of this case - when you do resizing based on groups, you should 
be sure to have the lockLocation of the groups set true.

I had a silly typo
 ?? set the top of something to the bottom of another+10
and I had
 ?? set the top of something to the bottom of another+1000

If lockLocation had been set, that would have been trivially obvious, 
and fixed in 30 seconds. However, it wasn't, so the group grew out of 
scale and obscured? most of the window, including where the problematic 
controls should have been - so I couldn't see they had gone astray..

And by bad luck, when I started adding "put .... to msg" statements, I 
happened to span a bit of code that *only* tried to change X 
coordinates, and was actually changing Y coords (because of group 
inclusion). So I spent a long time down a rabbit hole of trying to see 
find which code could be doing that, not realizing this "feature" that 
changing one dimension would expand both dimensions of the group.

Thanks again,

Alex.

P.S. any thoughts on another group Zoom for Livecoders ? Haven't heard 
more from Heather (and they may be busy), so maybe we should try to 
arrange a community get-together ?


On 04/05/2020 10:09, David Bovill via use-livecode wrote:
> Trying to understand this thread. I?ve been doing nested group resizing for all my work now for several years - it has been difficult often to debug track errors because of all the nested messages.
>
> As a result I?ve had to make a bunch of tools to test each nested element before they are combined, and also I?ve developed a consistent style of doing it - which may mean that I?m not coming across the issue you report.
>
> My suggestion Alex is the only way to explore this is to jump into a Zoom where we can share practice and see visually the issue? It would also be more fun at this time if lock down?
>
> Feel free to pick a time if that appeals - I got nothing better to do :)
>
> ? https://woven.com/c/david62/pairprogramming
>
> On 4 May 2020, 01:38 +0100, scott--- via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
>> Oh good, I was hoping I wasn?t the only one.
>>
>> ?
>> Scott
>>
>>
>>> On May 3, 2020, at 11:28 AM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>> I can now get back to my "10-minute cleanup task" that I started 8 hours ago :-)
>>>
>>> Alex.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org  Mon May  4 10:02:41 2020
From: prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org (Prothero-ELS)
Date: Mon, 4 May 2020 07:02:41 -0700
Subject: Has anyone experience of GPS on iPhone?
In-Reply-To: <3F58E6C5-6A9B-40B8-891C-C070D7C68155@mac.com>
References: <3F58E6C5-6A9B-40B8-891C-C070D7C68155@mac.com>
Message-ID: <E9CFBD58-CF30-493C-A909-6EDDD09B3027@earthlearningsolutions.org>

Graham,
I would want to be verifying the coordinates with another gps device. I?d also check it against apps that give lat/Lon. 

Bill

William Prothero
https://earthlearningsolutions.org

> On May 4, 2020, at 5:07 AM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> ?I?m using GPS on iPhone using the various commands and functions available in LC. Most of this works, but I am having difficulty with the quantity ?horizontal accuracy?. This can be queried via an array which is returned when mobileCurrentLocation() is executed. 
> 
> Looking at other iOS apps that use GPS and allow one to examine their data, I find that in my part of the world, accuracy for them is of the order of 5 metres: but when I query it using LC I get much higher numbers, indeed some of them look like nonsense, being hundreds of metres!
> 
> I am aware that it takes time for a GPS signal to settle down after mobileStartTrackingSensor ?location? has been called, but even if I script the examination of accuracy to wait for it to settle down (I look for a run of similar or identical readings against a ?reasonable? criterion, such as 5 metres), it still sometimes settles on very large numbers comparatively speaking, for example it might stabilise at 65 metres. With that level of inaccuracy any cumulative use, as in working out the number of kilometres in a trip, would not be reliable.
> 
> I wonder if my expectation is wrong, or if there is something different about LC?s encapsulation of these iOS outputs, or if there is some other explanation.
> 
> In the short term, I?m simply going to have to relax my search for a reasonable accuracy of the order of 5 metres, and just go for the first run of stable readings. But I would love to hear any further insight from anyone who?s already tried it.
> 
> Graham
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Mon May  4 10:22:42 2020
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Mon, 4 May 2020 10:22:42 -0400
Subject: Has anyone experience of GPS on iPhone?
In-Reply-To: <3F58E6C5-6A9B-40B8-891C-C070D7C68155@mac.com>
References: <3F58E6C5-6A9B-40B8-891C-C070D7C68155@mac.com>
Message-ID: <004401d6221f$7c329a70$7497cf50$@net>

1) Did you set the second parameter of mobileStartTrackingSensor to "false"?
2) Did you require "GPS" as well as "Location Services" in the standalone settings? If you don?t tick GPS then the GPS chip will not be used and you will get rough location readings.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net

-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Graham Samuel via use-livecode
Sent: Monday, May 04, 2020 8:07 AM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: Graham Samuel
Subject: Has anyone experience of GPS on iPhone?

I?m using GPS on iPhone using the various commands and functions available in LC. Most of this works, but I am having difficulty with the quantity ?horizontal accuracy?. This can be queried via an array which is returned when mobileCurrentLocation() is executed. 

Looking at other iOS apps that use GPS and allow one to examine their data, I find that in my part of the world, accuracy for them is of the order of 5 metres: but when I query it using LC I get much higher numbers, indeed some of them look like nonsense, being hundreds of metres!

I am aware that it takes time for a GPS signal to settle down after mobileStartTrackingSensor ?location? has been called, but even if I script the examination of accuracy to wait for it to settle down (I look for a run of similar or identical readings against a ?reasonable? criterion, such as 5 metres), it still sometimes settles on very large numbers comparatively speaking, for example it might stabilise at 65 metres. With that level of inaccuracy any cumulative use, as in working out the number of kilometres in a trip, would not be reliable.

I wonder if my expectation is wrong, or if there is something different about LC?s encapsulation of these iOS outputs, or if there is some other explanation.

In the short term, I?m simply going to have to relax my search for a reasonable accuracy of the order of 5 metres, and just go for the first run of stable readings. But I would love to hear any further insight from anyone who?s already tried it.

Graham
_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org  Mon May  4 10:22:52 2020
From: prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org (Prothero-ELS)
Date: Mon, 4 May 2020 07:22:52 -0700
Subject: Has anyone experience of GPS on iPhone?
In-Reply-To: <3F58E6C5-6A9B-40B8-891C-C070D7C68155@mac.com>
References: <3F58E6C5-6A9B-40B8-891C-C070D7C68155@mac.com>
Message-ID: <9CE355E1-DE7C-4646-8A2A-601216A36837@earthlearningsolutions.org>

Graham,
You may be way beyond this, but I did a bit of googling and this link looked relevant.

https://www.smaato.com/blog/optimize-your-location-data-accuracy/

Best,
Bill

William Prothero
https://earthlearningsolutions.org

> On May 4, 2020, at 5:07 AM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> ?I?m using GPS on iPhone using the various commands and functions available in LC. Most of this works, but I am having difficulty with the quantity ?horizontal accuracy?. This can be queried via an array which is returned when mobileCurrentLocation() is executed. 
> 
> Looking at other iOS apps that use GPS and allow one to examine their data, I find that in my part of the world, accuracy for them is of the order of 5 metres: but when I query it using LC I get much higher numbers, indeed some of them look like nonsense, being hundreds of metres!
> 
> I am aware that it takes time for a GPS signal to settle down after mobileStartTrackingSensor ?location? has been called, but even if I script the examination of accuracy to wait for it to settle down (I look for a run of similar or identical readings against a ?reasonable? criterion, such as 5 metres), it still sometimes settles on very large numbers comparatively speaking, for example it might stabilise at 65 metres. With that level of inaccuracy any cumulative use, as in working out the number of kilometres in a trip, would not be reliable.
> 
> I wonder if my expectation is wrong, or if there is something different about LC?s encapsulation of these iOS outputs, or if there is some other explanation.
> 
> In the short term, I?m simply going to have to relax my search for a reasonable accuracy of the order of 5 metres, and just go for the first run of stable readings. But I would love to hear any further insight from anyone who?s already tried it.
> 
> Graham
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From livfoss at mac.com  Mon May  4 11:36:39 2020
From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel)
Date: Mon, 4 May 2020 17:36:39 +0200
Subject: Has anyone experience of GPS on iPhone?
In-Reply-To: <004401d6221f$7c329a70$7497cf50$@net>
References: <3F58E6C5-6A9B-40B8-891C-C070D7C68155@mac.com>
 <004401d6221f$7c329a70$7497cf50$@net>
Message-ID: <27B6337C-7205-4C23-A5F4-32BF3B987BFD@mac.com>

Thanks Ralph. To answer your questions:

1. I left the mobileStartTrackingSensor to the default second parameter, i.e. I didn?t put anything. The LC dictionary says that the default value is false which means

> readings are determined using accurate (but power consuming) sources such as GPS

of course I could put in ?false? explicitly. But looking at the actual output data from the GPS functions, I think it?s evident that the GPS is actually being used. Nevertheless I will try including ?false?.

2.  Yes, I do require GPS as well as Location Services

So, those bits seem OK.

Still thinking about it, obviously.

Graham

> On 4 May 2020, at 16:22, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> 1) Did you set the second parameter of mobileStartTrackingSensor to "false"?
> 2) Did you require "GPS" as well as "Location Services" in the standalone settings? If you don?t tick GPS then the GPS chip will not be used and you will get rough location readings.
> 
> Ralph DiMola
> IT Director
> Evergreen Information Services
> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Graham Samuel via use-livecode
> Sent: Monday, May 04, 2020 8:07 AM
> To: How to use LiveCode
> Cc: Graham Samuel
> Subject: Has anyone experience of GPS on iPhone?
> 
> I?m using GPS on iPhone using the various commands and functions available in LC. Most of this works, but I am having difficulty with the quantity ?horizontal accuracy?. This can be queried via an array which is returned when mobileCurrentLocation() is executed. 
> 
> Looking at other iOS apps that use GPS and allow one to examine their data, I find that in my part of the world, accuracy for them is of the order of 5 metres: but when I query it using LC I get much higher numbers, indeed some of them look like nonsense, being hundreds of metres!
> 
> I am aware that it takes time for a GPS signal to settle down after mobileStartTrackingSensor ?location? has been called, but even if I script the examination of accuracy to wait for it to settle down (I look for a run of similar or identical readings against a ?reasonable? criterion, such as 5 metres), it still sometimes settles on very large numbers comparatively speaking, for example it might stabilise at 65 metres. With that level of inaccuracy any cumulative use, as in working out the number of kilometres in a trip, would not be reliable.
> 
> I wonder if my expectation is wrong, or if there is something different about LC?s encapsulation of these iOS outputs, or if there is some other explanation.
> 
> In the short term, I?m simply going to have to relax my search for a reasonable accuracy of the order of 5 metres, and just go for the first run of stable readings. But I would love to hear any further insight from anyone who?s already tried it.
> 
> Graham
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From mkoob at rogers.com  Mon May  4 11:55:47 2020
From: mkoob at rogers.com (Martin Koob)
Date: Mon, 4 May 2020 11:55:47 -0400
Subject: Can "answer file with type" show more than one file type at a time?
References: <9D2CDDD7-78DF-4746-8561-3A1F2AF6896A.ref@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <9D2CDDD7-78DF-4746-8561-3A1F2AF6896A@rogers.com>

Hi 

I have the following in an app to for a user to select a video file.

     answer file "Select the Movie." with (the tDefaultRecordingFolder of stack "preferences") with type "Quicktime Movie files|mov|Moov" or type "MPEG 4 Movie Files|mp4,m4v|mpg4"

The resulting dialog presents a a pop up menu on the file opening dialog two items "Quicktime Movie Files" and "MPEG 4 Movie Files?

I would rather that the user not have to do the extra step of selecting the movie types from the pop up menu.  Sometimes user get frustrated that the video they want to open is shown as disabled but they don?t realize they need to select the other file type from the pop up menu.

Is it possible  put two different file types without using the ' or type' so there is not a pop up menu and both QuickTime and MPEG 4 movie files are enabled in the dialog at the same time ?

I have tried doing the types as a list but the script editor flags it as a syntax error.

     answer file "Select the Movie." with (the tDefaultRecordingFolder of stack "preferences") with type "Quicktime Movie files|mov|Moov?,  "MPEG 4 Movie Files|mp4,m4v|mpg4"

Thanks.

Martin







From klaus at major-k.de  Mon May  4 12:01:06 2020
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Mon, 4 May 2020 18:01:06 +0200
Subject: Can "answer file with type" show more than one file type at a
 time?
In-Reply-To: <9D2CDDD7-78DF-4746-8561-3A1F2AF6896A@rogers.com>
References: <9D2CDDD7-78DF-4746-8561-3A1F2AF6896A.ref@rogers.com>
 <9D2CDDD7-78DF-4746-8561-3A1F2AF6896A@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <FEFA3D04-1CBE-4D7C-9259-90F620FB5AE0@major-k.de>

Hi Martin,

> Am 04.05.2020 um 17:55 schrieb Martin Koob via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi 
> 
> I have the following in an app to for a user to select a video file.
>     answer file "Select the Movie." with (the tDefaultRecordingFolder of stack "preferences") with type "Quicktime Movie files|mov|Moov" or type "MPEG 4 Movie Files|mp4,m4v|mpg4"
> The resulting dialog presents a a pop up menu on the file opening dialog two items "Quicktime Movie Files" and "MPEG 4 Movie Files?
> 
> I would rather that the user not have to do the extra step of selecting the movie types from the pop up menu.  Sometimes user get frustrated that the video they want to open is shown as disabled but they don?t realize they need to select the other file type from the pop up menu.
> Is it possible  put two different file types without using the ' or type' so there is not a pop up menu and both QuickTime and MPEG 4 movie files are enabled in the dialog at the same time ?
> I have tried doing the types as a list but the script editor flags it as a syntax error.
>     answer file "Select the Movie." with (the tDefaultRecordingFolder of stack "preferences") with type "Quicktime Movie files|mov|Moov?,  "MPEG 4 Movie Files|mp4,m4v|mpg4"
...
answer file "Select the Movie." with type "Video files|mov,mp4,m4v|"
...

> Thanks.
> 
> Martin

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
klaus at major-k.de




From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Mon May  4 12:53:11 2020
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Mon, 4 May 2020 12:53:11 -0400
Subject: Has anyone experience of GPS on iPhone?
In-Reply-To: <27B6337C-7205-4C23-A5F4-32BF3B987BFD@mac.com>
References: <3F58E6C5-6A9B-40B8-891C-C070D7C68155@mac.com>
 <004401d6221f$7c329a70$7497cf50$@net>
 <27B6337C-7205-4C23-A5F4-32BF3B987BFD@mac.com>
Message-ID: <007101d62234$81493270$83db9750$@net>

Graham,

Try a GPS status app from the iStore. If you are inside or have RFI the device will fall back to cellular/WIFI location data. If a GPS status app also shows poor accuracy this could be your problem.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net


-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Graham Samuel via use-livecode
Sent: Monday, May 04, 2020 11:37 AM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: Graham Samuel
Subject: Re: Has anyone experience of GPS on iPhone?

Thanks Ralph. To answer your questions:

1. I left the mobileStartTrackingSensor to the default second parameter, i.e. I didn?t put anything. The LC dictionary says that the default value is false which means

> readings are determined using accurate (but power consuming) sources such as GPS

of course I could put in ?false? explicitly. But looking at the actual output data from the GPS functions, I think it?s evident that the GPS is actually being used. Nevertheless I will try including ?false?.

2.  Yes, I do require GPS as well as Location Services

So, those bits seem OK.

Still thinking about it, obviously.

Graham

> On 4 May 2020, at 16:22, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> 1) Did you set the second parameter of mobileStartTrackingSensor to "false"?
> 2) Did you require "GPS" as well as "Location Services" in the standalone settings? If you don?t tick GPS then the GPS chip will not be used and you will get rough location readings.
> 
> Ralph DiMola
> IT Director
> Evergreen Information Services
> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Graham Samuel via use-livecode
> Sent: Monday, May 04, 2020 8:07 AM
> To: How to use LiveCode
> Cc: Graham Samuel
> Subject: Has anyone experience of GPS on iPhone?
> 
> I?m using GPS on iPhone using the various commands and functions available in LC. Most of this works, but I am having difficulty with the quantity ?horizontal accuracy?. This can be queried via an array which is returned when mobileCurrentLocation() is executed. 
> 
> Looking at other iOS apps that use GPS and allow one to examine their data, I find that in my part of the world, accuracy for them is of the order of 5 metres: but when I query it using LC I get much higher numbers, indeed some of them look like nonsense, being hundreds of metres!
> 
> I am aware that it takes time for a GPS signal to settle down after mobileStartTrackingSensor ?location? has been called, but even if I script the examination of accuracy to wait for it to settle down (I look for a run of similar or identical readings against a ?reasonable? criterion, such as 5 metres), it still sometimes settles on very large numbers comparatively speaking, for example it might stabilise at 65 metres. With that level of inaccuracy any cumulative use, as in working out the number of kilometres in a trip, would not be reliable.
> 
> I wonder if my expectation is wrong, or if there is something different about LC?s encapsulation of these iOS outputs, or if there is some other explanation.
> 
> In the short term, I?m simply going to have to relax my search for a reasonable accuracy of the order of 5 metres, and just go for the first run of stable readings. But I would love to hear any further insight from anyone who?s already tried it.
> 
> Graham
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Mon May  4 13:07:42 2020
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Mon, 4 May 2020 12:07:42 -0500
Subject: DataView and DataView Tree Updates
In-Reply-To: <CAHg3tG-Ai8METn1kD3T2__xLcLyhd2-R6q9aeB9biD5tJvbf7w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHg3tG-Ai8METn1kD3T2__xLcLyhd2-R6q9aeB9biD5tJvbf7w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHg3tG-JRH9R_Ur1QDJMaKwPSbmZH_zZb84=YnOZcTPNeH_oHw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, May 2, 2020 at 12:42 PM Trevor DeVore <lists at mangomultimedia.com>
wrote:

> I've updated the DataView and DataView Tree code in my GitHub repos with a
> script that will load all of the necessary files for developers who are not
> using the Levure framework. You will find updated instructions in the
> README, a link to the latest release, and a link to a demo project showing
> what they can do at the following links:
>

 FYI - After some further testing around building standalones for a
non-Levure app and using it on mobile, I made some changes to the
installation instructions. You will find new instructions on the GitHub
pages and new version available for download.

DataView
Repo: https://github.com/trevordevore/levurehelper-dataview
Downloads: https://github.com/trevordevore/levurehelper-dataview/releases

DataView Tree
Repo: https://github.com/trevordevore/levurehelper-dataview_tree
Downloads:
https://github.com/trevordevore/levurehelper-dataview_tree/releases

-- 
Trevor DeVore
ScreenSteps - https://www.screensteps.com
Levure App Framework for LiveCode - https://github.com/trevordevore/levure/
LiveCode Repos -
https://github.com/search?q=user%3Atrevordevore+topic:livecode
LiveCode Builder Repos -
https://github.com/search?q=user%3Atrevordevore+topic:livecode-builder


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon May  4 14:04:41 2020
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 4 May 2020 13:04:41 -0500
Subject: FormattedHeight
In-Reply-To: <171d66c50b8.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <4f7c74d3-ab8e-c755-215b-f3d09c81f7ac@hyperactivesw.com>
 <95C323E5-48F5-4312-A7CD-CEEF3356BC6B@elementarysoftware.com>
 <60cf7726-92bf-b50c-2d63-7bf0532547cf@hyperactivesw.com>
 <4AFB4787-2C0F-405C-B1F5-7D36D5A731B9@elementarysoftware.com>
 <171d66c50b8.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <860fef05-ab13-d846-b448-1ab6ff5b26c7@hyperactivesw.com>

On 5/2/20 12:25 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
> I think the solution has to be in the engine. I'm in trouble.

I am no longer in trouble. :) Huge thanks to Trevor for spending an inordinate amount of time 
with me over the weekend to get his DataView working in my stack. It's really a marvel.

I can't describe how grateful I am to him for getting me out of an uncomfortable situation. 
He's smart, patient, and so very helpful even after my brain fuzzed over at oh-my-god o'clock 
in the wee hours of the morning.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From jacques.hausser at unil.ch  Mon May  4 14:07:28 2020
From: jacques.hausser at unil.ch (Jacques Hausser)
Date: Mon, 4 May 2020 18:07:28 +0000
Subject: system date
Message-ID: <30910822-3764-485E-B652-9454D911EF98@unil.ch>

Hello everybody,

Back to LC after a long time out. I?m using LC 9.6.0(dp 4) on Mac OS 10.15.4, and I just discovered that Livecode seems totally deaf to the words ?system date?. EG:

put the date into today
convert today to system date
put today into fld 1

returns 5/4/20 instead of 04.05.20

Is "system date" deprecated? 

From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Mon May  4 14:21:48 2020
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Mon, 4 May 2020 20:21:48 +0200
Subject: system date
In-Reply-To: <30910822-3764-485E-B652-9454D911EF98@unil.ch>
References: <30910822-3764-485E-B652-9454D911EF98@unil.ch>
Message-ID: <BC2960FE-C15D-4F6B-8A44-E02D5F441120@m-r-d.de>

I tried here with DP4 on Mac OS 10.14.6.

I definitely get 04.05.20 when running your script.

Either this has to do with 10.15.4 or....
Are you sure your region settings are correct. ;)

Regards,

Matthias



-
Matthias Rebbe
Life Is Too Short For Boring Code

> Am 04.05.2020 um 20:07 schrieb Jacques Hausser via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hello everybody,
> 
> Back to LC after a long time out. I?m using LC 9.6.0(dp 4) on Mac OS 10.15.4, and I just discovered that Livecode seems totally deaf to the words ?system date?. EG:
> 
> put the date into today
> convert today to system date
> put today into fld 1
> 
> returns 5/4/20 instead of 04.05.20
> 
> Is "system date" deprecated? 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From jacques.hausser at unil.ch  Mon May  4 14:39:17 2020
From: jacques.hausser at unil.ch (Jacques Hausser)
Date: Mon, 4 May 2020 18:39:17 +0000
Subject: system date
In-Reply-To: <BC2960FE-C15D-4F6B-8A44-E02D5F441120@m-r-d.de>
References: <30910822-3764-485E-B652-9454D911EF98@unil.ch>
 <BC2960FE-C15D-4F6B-8A44-E02D5F441120@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <D6DE5DC6-1E5D-4E1A-9581-F9AA3D78E455@unil.ch>

My region settings are by default. But I would not be surprised if the problem comes from Apple.

> Le 4 mai 2020 ? 20:21, matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> a ?crit :
> 
> I tried here with DP4 on Mac OS 10.14.6.
> 
> I definitely get 04.05.20 when running your script.
> 
> Either this has to do with 10.15.4 or....
> Are you sure your region settings are correct. ;)
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Matthias
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Matthias Rebbe
> Life Is Too Short For Boring Code
> 
>> Am 04.05.2020 um 20:07 schrieb Jacques Hausser via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> Hello everybody,
>> 
>> Back to LC after a long time out. I?m using LC 9.6.0(dp 4) on Mac OS 10.15.4, and I just discovered that Livecode seems totally deaf to the words ?system date?. EG:
>> 
>> put the date into today
>> convert today to system date
>> put today into fld 1
>> 
>> returns 5/4/20 instead of 04.05.20
>> 
>> Is "system date" deprecated? 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From mkoob at rogers.com  Mon May  4 14:43:57 2020
From: mkoob at rogers.com (Martin Koob)
Date: Mon, 4 May 2020 14:43:57 -0400
Subject: system date
In-Reply-To: <D6DE5DC6-1E5D-4E1A-9581-F9AA3D78E455@unil.ch>
References: <30910822-3764-485E-B652-9454D911EF98@unil.ch>
 <BC2960FE-C15D-4F6B-8A44-E02D5F441120@m-r-d.de>
 <D6DE5DC6-1E5D-4E1A-9581-F9AA3D78E455@unil.ch>
Message-ID: <4ECB892E-4971-4C6A-84EE-A588823D9997@rogers.com>

Huh,  I get 2020-05-04 here in Canada.  Not sure what my region settings are.


Regards,

Martin Koob





> On May 4, 2020, at 2:39 PM, Jacques Hausser via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> My region settings are by default. But I would not be surprised if the problem comes from Apple.
> 
>> Le 4 mai 2020 ? 20:21, matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> a ?crit :
>> 
>> I tried here with DP4 on Mac OS 10.14.6.
>> 
>> I definitely get 04.05.20 when running your script.
>> 
>> Either this has to do with 10.15.4 or....
>> Are you sure your region settings are correct. ;)
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> Matthias
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -
>> Matthias Rebbe
>> Life Is Too Short For Boring Code
>> 
>>> Am 04.05.2020 um 20:07 schrieb Jacques Hausser via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>> 
>>> Hello everybody,
>>> 
>>> Back to LC after a long time out. I?m using LC 9.6.0(dp 4) on Mac OS 10.15.4, and I just discovered that Livecode seems totally deaf to the words ?system date?. EG:
>>> 
>>> put the date into today
>>> convert today to system date
>>> put today into fld 1
>>> 
>>> returns 5/4/20 instead of 04.05.20
>>> 
>>> Is "system date" deprecated? 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From mkoob at rogers.com  Mon May  4 14:55:58 2020
From: mkoob at rogers.com (Martin Koob)
Date: Mon, 4 May 2020 14:55:58 -0400
Subject: system date
In-Reply-To: <4ECB892E-4971-4C6A-84EE-A588823D9997@rogers.com>
References: <30910822-3764-485E-B652-9454D911EF98@unil.ch>
 <BC2960FE-C15D-4F6B-8A44-E02D5F441120@m-r-d.de>
 <D6DE5DC6-1E5D-4E1A-9581-F9AA3D78E455@unil.ch>
 <4ECB892E-4971-4C6A-84EE-A588823D9997@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <1F323D46-E503-42AA-A8F4-D98E6A4E3FE3@rogers.com>

OK I opened the 'Language and Region' settings panel and clicked on the ?Advanced? button and then clicked on the Tab for ?Dates?

There is a field with a setting for ?Short?  which was 2020-01-05.  I replaced the hyphens with slashes.

I had to quit and relaunch LiveCode for the change to take effect.  After I had done that the command 'put the system date? returns '2020/05/04?

If I click 'Restore Defaults' in the ?Dates' tab of the advanced 'Language and Region' settings panel my short date format goes back to 2020-05-04.

Martin




> On May 4, 2020, at 2:43 PM, Martin Koob via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Huh,  I get 2020-05-04 here in Canada.  Not sure what my region settings are.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Martin Koob
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On May 4, 2020, at 2:39 PM, Jacques Hausser via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> My region settings are by default. But I would not be surprised if the problem comes from Apple.
>> 
>>> Le 4 mai 2020 ? 20:21, matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> a ?crit :
>>> 
>>> I tried here with DP4 on Mac OS 10.14.6.
>>> 
>>> I definitely get 04.05.20 when running your script.
>>> 
>>> Either this has to do with 10.15.4 or....
>>> Are you sure your region settings are correct. ;)
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> 
>>> Matthias
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -
>>> Matthias Rebbe
>>> Life Is Too Short For Boring Code
>>> 
>>>> Am 04.05.2020 um 20:07 schrieb Jacques Hausser via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>>> 
>>>> Hello everybody,
>>>> 
>>>> Back to LC after a long time out. I?m using LC 9.6.0(dp 4) on Mac OS 10.15.4, and I just discovered that Livecode seems totally deaf to the words ?system date?. EG:
>>>> 
>>>> put the date into today
>>>> convert today to system date
>>>> put today into fld 1
>>>> 
>>>> returns 5/4/20 instead of 04.05.20
>>>> 
>>>> Is "system date" deprecated? 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From jacques.hausser at unil.ch  Mon May  4 15:36:52 2020
From: jacques.hausser at unil.ch (Jacques Hausser)
Date: Mon, 4 May 2020 19:36:52 +0000
Subject: system date
In-Reply-To: <1F323D46-E503-42AA-A8F4-D98E6A4E3FE3@rogers.com>
References: <30910822-3764-485E-B652-9454D911EF98@unil.ch>
 <BC2960FE-C15D-4F6B-8A44-E02D5F441120@m-r-d.de>
 <D6DE5DC6-1E5D-4E1A-9581-F9AA3D78E455@unil.ch>
 <4ECB892E-4971-4C6A-84EE-A588823D9997@rogers.com>
 <1F323D46-E503-42AA-A8F4-D98E6A4E3FE3@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <370F11EF-4FCA-44E4-AD44-D5CE206AC598@unil.ch>

OK, I restarted the computer and now everything is OK. I probably inadvertently did put a little gravel somewhere in the gears? thank you Martin and Matthias and sorry for the inconvenience.


> Le 4 mai 2020 ? 20:55, Martin Koob via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> a ?crit :
> 
> OK I opened the 'Language and Region' settings panel and clicked on the ?Advanced? button and then clicked on the Tab for ?Dates?
> 
> There is a field with a setting for ?Short?  which was 2020-01-05.  I replaced the hyphens with slashes.
> 
> I had to quit and relaunch LiveCode for the change to take effect.  After I had done that the command 'put the system date? returns '2020/05/04?
> 
> If I click 'Restore Defaults' in the ?Dates' tab of the advanced 'Language and Region' settings panel my short date format goes back to 2020-05-04.
> 
> Martin
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On May 4, 2020, at 2:43 PM, Martin Koob via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Huh,  I get 2020-05-04 here in Canada.  Not sure what my region settings are.
>> 
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> Martin Koob
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On May 4, 2020, at 2:39 PM, Jacques Hausser via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> My region settings are by default. But I would not be surprised if the problem comes from Apple.
>>> 
>>>> Le 4 mai 2020 ? 20:21, matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> a ?crit :
>>>> 
>>>> I tried here with DP4 on Mac OS 10.14.6.
>>>> 
>>>> I definitely get 04.05.20 when running your script.
>>>> 
>>>> Either this has to do with 10.15.4 or....
>>>> Are you sure your region settings are correct. ;)
>>>> 
>>>> Regards,
>>>> 
>>>> Matthias
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -
>>>> Matthias Rebbe
>>>> Life Is Too Short For Boring Code
>>>> 
>>>>> Am 04.05.2020 um 20:07 schrieb Jacques Hausser via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hello everybody,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Back to LC after a long time out. I?m using LC 9.6.0(dp 4) on Mac OS 10.15.4, and I just discovered that Livecode seems totally deaf to the words ?system date?. EG:
>>>>> 
>>>>> put the date into today
>>>>> convert today to system date
>>>>> put today into fld 1
>>>>> 
>>>>> returns 5/4/20 instead of 04.05.20
>>>>> 
>>>>> Is "system date" deprecated? 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Mon May  4 15:46:52 2020
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Mon, 4 May 2020 21:46:52 +0200
Subject: system date
In-Reply-To: <370F11EF-4FCA-44E4-AD44-D5CE206AC598@unil.ch>
References: <30910822-3764-485E-B652-9454D911EF98@unil.ch>
 <BC2960FE-C15D-4F6B-8A44-E02D5F441120@m-r-d.de>
 <D6DE5DC6-1E5D-4E1A-9581-F9AA3D78E455@unil.ch>
 <4ECB892E-4971-4C6A-84EE-A588823D9997@rogers.com>
 <1F323D46-E503-42AA-A8F4-D98E6A4E3FE3@rogers.com>
 <370F11EF-4FCA-44E4-AD44-D5CE206AC598@unil.ch>
Message-ID: <D8891A28-4416-4EE6-84FB-3FF9E11320A7@m-r-d.de>

Good to know that it?s working now.


-
Matthias Rebbe
Life Is Too Short For Boring Code

> Am 04.05.2020 um 21:36 schrieb Jacques Hausser via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> OK, I restarted the computer and now everything is OK. I probably inadvertently did put a little gravel somewhere in the gears? thank you Martin and Matthias and sorry for the inconvenience.
> 
> 
>> Le 4 mai 2020 ? 20:55, Martin Koob via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> a ?crit :
>> 
>> OK I opened the 'Language and Region' settings panel and clicked on the ?Advanced? button and then clicked on the Tab for ?Dates?
>> 
>> There is a field with a setting for ?Short?  which was 2020-01-05.  I replaced the hyphens with slashes.
>> 
>> I had to quit and relaunch LiveCode for the change to take effect.  After I had done that the command 'put the system date? returns '2020/05/04?
>> 
>> If I click 'Restore Defaults' in the ?Dates' tab of the advanced 'Language and Region' settings panel my short date format goes back to 2020-05-04.
>> 
>> Martin
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On May 4, 2020, at 2:43 PM, Martin Koob via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Huh,  I get 2020-05-04 here in Canada.  Not sure what my region settings are.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> 
>>> Martin Koob
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On May 4, 2020, at 2:39 PM, Jacques Hausser via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> My region settings are by default. But I would not be surprised if the problem comes from Apple.
>>>> 
>>>>> Le 4 mai 2020 ? 20:21, matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> a ?crit :
>>>>> 
>>>>> I tried here with DP4 on Mac OS 10.14.6.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I definitely get 04.05.20 when running your script.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Either this has to do with 10.15.4 or....
>>>>> Are you sure your region settings are correct. ;)
>>>>> 
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Matthias
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -
>>>>> Matthias Rebbe
>>>>> Life Is Too Short For Boring Code
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Am 04.05.2020 um 20:07 schrieb Jacques Hausser via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hello everybody,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Back to LC after a long time out. I?m using LC 9.6.0(dp 4) on Mac OS 10.15.4, and I just discovered that Livecode seems totally deaf to the words ?system date?. EG:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> put the date into today
>>>>>> convert today to system date
>>>>>> put today into fld 1
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> returns 5/4/20 instead of 04.05.20
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Is "system date" deprecated? 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From scott at elementarysoftware.com  Mon May  4 16:01:26 2020
From: scott at elementarysoftware.com (scott at elementarysoftware.com)
Date: Mon, 4 May 2020 13:01:26 -0700
Subject: FormattedHeight
In-Reply-To: <860fef05-ab13-d846-b448-1ab6ff5b26c7@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <4f7c74d3-ab8e-c755-215b-f3d09c81f7ac@hyperactivesw.com>
 <95C323E5-48F5-4312-A7CD-CEEF3356BC6B@elementarysoftware.com>
 <60cf7726-92bf-b50c-2d63-7bf0532547cf@hyperactivesw.com>
 <4AFB4787-2C0F-405C-B1F5-7D36D5A731B9@elementarysoftware.com>
 <171d66c50b8.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <860fef05-ab13-d846-b448-1ab6ff5b26c7@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <0C2D9DCB-F83D-461D-BB86-5921716F6626@elementarysoftware.com>

Good to know that Trevor?s work was able to solve this problem! (Sounds as if it may not be a solution for the faint of heart yet.)
?
Scott

> On May 4, 2020, at 11:04 AM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> On 5/2/20 12:25 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
>> I think the solution has to be in the engine. I'm in trouble.
> 
> I am no longer in trouble. :) Huge thanks to Trevor for spending an inordinate amount of time with me over the weekend to get his DataView working in my stack. It's really a marvel.
> 
> I can't describe how grateful I am to him for getting me out of an uncomfortable situation. He's smart, patient, and so very helpful even after my brain fuzzed over at oh-my-god o'clock in the wee hours of the morning.
> 
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From panos.merakos at livecode.com  Mon May  4 16:38:38 2020
From: panos.merakos at livecode.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Mon, 4 May 2020 23:38:38 +0300
Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 224
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq_6etJYO6a9G=0X7SpKW0XsGVDPz_iiSZAjDyFV7-tpdQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

Read about new developments in LiveCode open source and the open source
community in today's edition of the "This Week in LiveCode" newsletter!

        Read issue #224 here: https://bit.ly/3c5sBxM

This is a weekly newsletter about LiveCode, focussing on what's been
going on in and around the open source project. New issues will be
released weekly on Mondays. We have a dedicated mailing list that will
deliver each issue directly to you e-mail, so you don't miss any!

If you have anything you'd like mentioned (a project, a discussion
somewhere, an upcoming event) then please get in touch.


-- 
Panagiotis Merakos <panos.merakos at livecode.com>
LiveCode Software Developer

Everyone Can Create Apps <https://livecode.com>


From paulmcclernan at gmail.com  Mon May  4 17:11:18 2020
From: paulmcclernan at gmail.com (Paul McClernan)
Date: Mon, 4 May 2020 17:11:18 -0400
Subject: Most obscure HC question
In-Reply-To: <689298F7-73D9-497A-8850-2FDC08E42813@gmail.com>
References: <689298F7-73D9-497A-8850-2FDC08E42813@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+mv_tX7Eb82_JdBOO5Bx99TeTxKC3AF8av9YpNPmS_+0YZgxA@mail.gmail.com>

That old HC stack that removes the HC engine leaving only a stack file is
here:
https://archive.org/details/hypercard_standalone-stripper-232

On Sat, May 2, 2020 at 7:06 PM Colin Holgate via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I fear that the HyperCard group in Yahoo may be lost. Please let me know
> if that isn?t true.
>
> But between you all you may remember something that will help me. I have a
> standalone HC application, and it opens with a window that shows that you
> are only seeing part of the card window. The card window doesn?t resize,
> and I can?t remember how to make it be bigger. Here?s things that didn?t
> work:
>
> Setting a ton of memory.
> Setting Monitors to match the card size.
> Resizing the preview rectangle. You can only resize it smaller.
> Resizing the card window.
> Clicking the zoom box.
>
> As it?s a standalone application I can?t easily get at the stack, but feel
> sure there was a way to hack the stack out of a standalone.
>
> Anyway, please enjoy the challenge of remembering this far back!
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From paulmcclernan at gmail.com  Mon May  4 17:19:40 2020
From: paulmcclernan at gmail.com (Paul McClernan)
Date: Mon, 4 May 2020 17:19:40 -0400
Subject: Most obscure HC question
In-Reply-To: <CA+mv_tX7Eb82_JdBOO5Bx99TeTxKC3AF8av9YpNPmS_+0YZgxA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <689298F7-73D9-497A-8850-2FDC08E42813@gmail.com>
 <CA+mv_tX7Eb82_JdBOO5Bx99TeTxKC3AF8av9YpNPmS_+0YZgxA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+mv_tVJL02ytCOm7Y5=2LzetViMfPsnWNbLXLAhxaO6V+aVsg@mail.gmail.com>

There's also this XCMD and another tool somewhere that claimed they could
convert protected HC stacks to back to normal stacks but I'm not sure how
effective they were (if at all):
https://archive.org/details/hypercard_unprotect-xcmd

On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 5:11 PM Paul McClernan <paulmcclernan at gmail.com>
wrote:

> That old HC stack that removes the HC engine leaving only a stack file is
> here:
> https://archive.org/details/hypercard_standalone-stripper-232
>
> On Sat, May 2, 2020 at 7:06 PM Colin Holgate via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> I fear that the HyperCard group in Yahoo may be lost. Please let me know
>> if that isn?t true.
>>
>> But between you all you may remember something that will help me. I have
>> a standalone HC application, and it opens with a window that shows that you
>> are only seeing part of the card window. The card window doesn?t resize,
>> and I can?t remember how to make it be bigger. Here?s things that didn?t
>> work:
>>
>> Setting a ton of memory.
>> Setting Monitors to match the card size.
>> Resizing the preview rectangle. You can only resize it smaller.
>> Resizing the card window.
>> Clicking the zoom box.
>>
>> As it?s a standalone application I can?t easily get at the stack, but
>> feel sure there was a way to hack the stack out of a standalone.
>>
>> Anyway, please enjoy the challenge of remembering this far back!
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon May  4 17:24:55 2020
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 4 May 2020 14:24:55 -0700
Subject: Most obscure HC question
In-Reply-To: <CA+mv_tX7Eb82_JdBOO5Bx99TeTxKC3AF8av9YpNPmS_+0YZgxA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+mv_tX7Eb82_JdBOO5Bx99TeTxKC3AF8av9YpNPmS_+0YZgxA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <94899041-848d-2698-ad7a-603c82e6af3d@fourthworld.com>

Paul McClernan wrote:

 > That old HC stack that removes the HC engine leaving only a stack file
 > is here:
 > https://archive.org/details/hypercard_standalone-stripper-232

 From the link:
    This stack 'deconverts' HyperCard standalone applications into
    stacks by removing the 'stock' standalone resources, changing
    the file's Type and Creator codes to 'STAK' and 'WILD', and
    clearing the new stack's 'hasBundle' bit.

Can also be done with ResEdit or LC:
http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2020-May/260175.html

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From colinholgate at gmail.com  Mon May  4 18:33:52 2020
From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate)
Date: Mon, 4 May 2020 16:33:52 -0600
Subject: Most obscure HC question
In-Reply-To: <94899041-848d-2698-ad7a-603c82e6af3d@fourthworld.com>
References: <CA+mv_tX7Eb82_JdBOO5Bx99TeTxKC3AF8av9YpNPmS_+0YZgxA@mail.gmail.com>
 <94899041-848d-2698-ad7a-603c82e6af3d@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <6304FE30-4AA0-477E-B4E4-63B3593D5181@gmail.com>


That looked hopeful, but requires Power Tools. I do have HyperCard installer discs somewhere?


> On May 4, 2020, at 3:24 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Paul McClernan wrote:
> 
> > That old HC stack that removes the HC engine leaving only a stack file
> > is here:
> > https://archive.org/details/hypercard_standalone-stripper-232
> 
> From the link:
>   This stack 'deconverts' HyperCard standalone applications into
>   stacks by removing the 'stock' standalone resources, changing
>   the file's Type and Creator codes to 'STAK' and 'WILD', and
>   clearing the new stack's 'hasBundle' bit.
> 
> Can also be done with ResEdit or LC:
> http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2020-May/260175.html
> 
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
> ____________________________________________________________________
> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From alanstenhouse at hotmail.com  Mon May  4 19:18:06 2020
From: alanstenhouse at hotmail.com (Alan Stenhouse)
Date: Tue, 5 May 2020 08:48:06 +0930
Subject: use-livecode Digest, Vol 200, Issue 5
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1588608002.347661.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
References: <mailman.1.1588608002.347661.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <TY2PR02MB2944AE0332662B33E85EC0E9A5A60@TY2PR02MB2944.apcprd02.prod.outlook.com>

Hi Graham

Have you tried it walking around outside in varying locations? Have you tried different devices and/or OS versions? You could try sharing it with a friend using Diawi or similar and see what they get.

Also try restarting your phone to see if that helps.

As you move around the countryside, you'll occasionally get some inaccurate reading (depending on surroundings) so you may decide it's best to store, but ignore, occasional inaccuracies and just use some form of interpolation.

Looking forward to even better location data in the future - it's constantly improving and most new phones will give you 3-5m accuracy in the right conditions. Perhaps the newest phones are already even better?

Here are a few links with more info:

"assessment of the gps accuracy of mobile devices":
http://blog.cartong.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Assessment_GPS_Accuracy_Mobile_Devices.pdf

"Smartphone GPS accuracy study in an urban environment":
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0219890

"Why GPS makes distances bigger than they are":
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/13658816.2015.1086924

though those may not be immediately helpful to you. :-)

Will look forward to hearing what you come up with!

Good luck!

cheers

Alan


> On May 4, 2020, at 5:07 AM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> ?I?m using GPS on iPhone using the various commands and functions available in LC. Most of this works, but I am having difficulty with the quantity ?horizontal accuracy?. This can be queried via an array which is returned when mobileCurrentLocation() is executed. 
> 
> Looking at other iOS apps that use GPS and allow one to examine their data, I find that in my part of the world, accuracy for them is of the order of 5 metres: but when I query it using LC I get much higher numbers, indeed some of them look like nonsense, being hundreds of metres!
> 
> I am aware that it takes time for a GPS signal to settle down after mobileStartTrackingSensor ?location? has been called, but even if I script the examination of accuracy to wait for it to settle down (I look for a run of similar or identical readings against a ?reasonable? criterion, such as 5 metres), it still sometimes settles on very large numbers comparatively speaking, for example it might stabilise at 65 metres. With that level of inaccuracy any cumulative use, as in working out the number of kilometres in a trip, would not be reliable.
> 
> I wonder if my expectation is wrong, or if there is something different about LC?s encapsulation of these iOS outputs, or if there is some other explanation.
> 
> In the short term, I?m simply going to have to relax my search for a reasonable accuracy of the order of 5 metres, and just go for the first run of stable readings. But I would love to hear any further insight from anyone who?s already tried it.
> 
> Graham




From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Mon May  4 23:22:04 2020
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Mon, 4 May 2020 22:22:04 -0500
Subject: FormattedHeight
In-Reply-To: <0C2D9DCB-F83D-461D-BB86-5921716F6626@elementarysoftware.com>
References: <4f7c74d3-ab8e-c755-215b-f3d09c81f7ac@hyperactivesw.com>
 <95C323E5-48F5-4312-A7CD-CEEF3356BC6B@elementarysoftware.com>
 <60cf7726-92bf-b50c-2d63-7bf0532547cf@hyperactivesw.com>
 <4AFB4787-2C0F-405C-B1F5-7D36D5A731B9@elementarysoftware.com>
 <171d66c50b8.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <860fef05-ab13-d846-b448-1ab6ff5b26c7@hyperactivesw.com>
 <0C2D9DCB-F83D-461D-BB86-5921716F6626@elementarysoftware.com>
Message-ID: <ccf61271-d012-5f74-fc17-418e44828a2a@hyperactivesw.com>

It's do-able though it requires some study. But it works very well and solves the problem.

On 5/4/20 3:01 PM, scott--- via use-livecode wrote:
> Good to know that Trevor?s work was able to solve this problem! (Sounds as if it may not be a solution for the faint of heart yet.)
> ?
> Scott
> 
>> On May 4, 2020, at 11:04 AM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>> On 5/2/20 12:25 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
>>> I think the solution has to be in the engine. I'm in trouble.
>>
>> I am no longer in trouble. :) Huge thanks to Trevor for spending an inordinate amount of time with me over the weekend to get his DataView working in my stack. It's really a marvel.
>>
>> I can't describe how grateful I am to him for getting me out of an uncomfortable situation. He's smart, patient, and so very helpful even after my brain fuzzed over at oh-my-god o'clock in the wee hours of the morning.
>>
>> -- 
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com




From livfoss at mac.com  Tue May  5 05:29:37 2020
From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel)
Date: Tue, 5 May 2020 11:29:37 +0200
Subject: Has anyone experience of GPS on iPhone?
In-Reply-To: <E9CFBD58-CF30-493C-A909-6EDDD09B3027@earthlearningsolutions.org>
References: <3F58E6C5-6A9B-40B8-891C-C070D7C68155@mac.com>
 <E9CFBD58-CF30-493C-A909-6EDDD09B3027@earthlearningsolutions.org>
Message-ID: <AA99F22C-014C-4E9C-918A-4B38CFA9FDFE@mac.com>

Thanks Bill for your two messages. I see from the link you gave that the LC system is (as expected) simply a wrapper for the iOS API, and indeed the term ?horizontal accuracy? is actually used internally in iOS. So it?s unlikely that LC itself is adding to my problems.

I don?t have access to an entirely different GPS system - all mine are on iPhones and I?m in lockdown. Google Earth reckons my reference point is at 43.276693, 2.160029. (The curious can see where I live).

Here is a little test done by simply sitting on a bench in my garden - as far as possible, this is what Google Earth is looking at.

Another app - ?MyAltitude? on my phone. Location 43.2766, 2.1601

Built-in ?Compass? app. Location 43.2766, 2.1600

My app - successive calls to mobileCurrentLocation a few seconds apart differ only beyond the fourth decimal place, a typical one is 43.276732 (so 43.277), 2.160163 (so 2.1602). During this set of about 20 measurements, horizontal accuracy varied from a minimum of 5 to a maximum of 23, tending to settle down to the lower end - but on other days I?ve seen much higher maxima, certainly above 60 and very occasionally a lot more.

So the readings agree, at least to three decimal places. Presumably the accuracy is supposed to tell me the amount of wobble to expect, although it?s measured in metres, whereas longitude and latitude are not so straightforward, since the grid covers a spherical earth. Where I live (England and the South of France), the North-South distance of a second of arc (or .000278 in decimal measurement) is about 20 metres, which is perhaps acceptable in short journeys such as walks, so I need to take account of say four or five decimal places if I?m going to hope for reasonable accuracy. This certainly looks feasible - my only real problem therefore is the wild variation in horizontal accuracy that I?m seeing.

All this makes me think that I should not have a target accuracy, since I may never hit the target and my user will be waiting forever to start his or her trip. I am therefore about to modify the app so it only looks for consistency - as soon as the horizontal accuracy settles down to a value without say more than five percent of variation, I will allow the trip to start. Seems weird but it?s the best I can do. Without access to anyone else?s coding for an iOS app, I can?t see a way to improve on that strategy. Obviously I will now run tests to see how my app compared with others that measure on-the-ground trip distance, particularly for short distances. 

In case anyone else thinks this is interesting (!), I?ll report back.

Graham

> On 4 May 2020, at 16:02, Prothero-ELS via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Graham,
> I would want to be verifying the coordinates with another gps device. I?d also check it against apps that give lat/Lon. 
> 
> Bill
> 
> William Prothero
> https://earthlearningsolutions.org
> 
>> On May 4, 2020, at 5:07 AM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> ?I?m using GPS on iPhone using the various commands and functions available in LC. Most of this works, but I am having difficulty with the quantity ?horizontal accuracy?. This can be queried via an array which is returned when mobileCurrentLocation() is executed. 
>> 
>> Looking at other iOS apps that use GPS and allow one to examine their data, I find that in my part of the world, accuracy for them is of the order of 5 metres: but when I query it using LC I get much higher numbers, indeed some of them look like nonsense, being hundreds of metres!
>> 
>> I am aware that it takes time for a GPS signal to settle down after mobileStartTrackingSensor ?location? has been called, but even if I script the examination of accuracy to wait for it to settle down (I look for a run of similar or identical readings against a ?reasonable? criterion, such as 5 metres), it still sometimes settles on very large numbers comparatively speaking, for example it might stabilise at 65 metres. With that level of inaccuracy any cumulative use, as in working out the number of kilometres in a trip, would not be reliable.
>> 
>> I wonder if my expectation is wrong, or if there is something different about LC?s encapsulation of these iOS outputs, or if there is some other explanation.
>> 
>> In the short term, I?m simply going to have to relax my search for a reasonable accuracy of the order of 5 metres, and just go for the first run of stable readings. But I would love to hear any further insight from anyone who?s already tried it.
>> 
>> Graham
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From mkoob at rogers.com  Tue May  5 08:30:30 2020
From: mkoob at rogers.com (Martin Koob)
Date: Tue, 5 May 2020 08:30:30 -0400
Subject: Can "answer file with type" show more than one file type at a
 time?
In-Reply-To: <FEFA3D04-1CBE-4D7C-9259-90F620FB5AE0@major-k.de>
References: <9D2CDDD7-78DF-4746-8561-3A1F2AF6896A.ref@rogers.com>
 <9D2CDDD7-78DF-4746-8561-3A1F2AF6896A@rogers.com>
 <FEFA3D04-1CBE-4D7C-9259-90F620FB5AE0@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <29E284AD-380C-4380-B1C9-565489136E88@rogers.com>

Hi Klaus

That was easy.   :-)

Martin



> On May 4, 2020, at 12:01 PM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> I have tried doing the types as a list but the script editor flags it as a syntax error.
>>    answer file "Select the Movie." with (the tDefaultRecordingFolder of stack "preferences") with type "Quicktime Movie files|mov|Moov?,  "MPEG 4 Movie Files|mp4,m4v|mpg4"
> ...
> answer file "Select the Movie." with type "Video files|mov,mp4,m4v|"
> ...



From toolbook at kestner.de  Tue May  5 09:16:00 2020
From: toolbook at kestner.de (toolbook at kestner.de)
Date: Tue, 5 May 2020 15:16:00 +0200
Subject: OT: Need some offlist help with PHP-SQL
Message-ID: <00f701d622df$52a78510$f7f68f30$@kestner.de>

Hello,

 

I have some LC front end software, calling PHP scripts going on a SQL db.

The PHP scripts are not made by me and they are about 10 years old. I have
to upgrade the PHP version on the webserver of my hosting provider from 7.1
to 7.4 and within my test environment I am getting some PHP errors when
testing with 7.4. Probably the issue is only a very small syntax thing with
missing parentheses or something like that, but I am not good enough in PHP
to find the issue.

If you are willing to help me updating my PHP scripts to 7.4, please give me
a note offlist. I would also like to pay for your work!

Thank you!

 

Tiemo

 

 

 



From harrison at all-auctions.com  Tue May  5 09:27:01 2020
From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison)
Date: Tue, 5 May 2020 09:27:01 -0400
Subject: OT: Need some offlist help with PHP-SQL
In-Reply-To: <00f701d622df$52a78510$f7f68f30$@kestner.de>
References: <00f701d622df$52a78510$f7f68f30$@kestner.de>
Message-ID: <899C2999-D673-4748-AB0D-F500205322CC@all-auctions.com>

Hi Tiemo,

If I were you, I would not use PHP just for security reasons alone.

My servers are just pounded all the time with hackers trying to
find PHP exploits.  They even try to install PHP on my server so
they can start hacking away. If you check your server?s log files 
I am sure you will find similar hackers trying to hack your PHP. 
They may have already been successful too!  

If you can do it, I would recommend turning those PHP scripts into 
LC scripts as soon as possible.

Good luck,

Rick

> On May 5, 2020, at 9:16 AM, Tiemo via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> 
> 
> I have some LC front end software, calling PHP scripts going on a SQL db.
> 
> The PHP scripts are not made by me and they are about 10 years old. I have
> to upgrade the PHP version on the webserver of my hosting provider from 7.1
> to 7.4 and within my test environment I am getting some PHP errors when
> testing with 7.4. Probably the issue is only a very small syntax thing with
> missing parentheses or something like that, but I am not good enough in PHP
> to find the issue.
> 
> If you are willing to help me updating my PHP scripts to 7.4, please give me
> a note offlist. I would also like to pay for your work!
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> 
> 
> Tiemo



From prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org  Tue May  5 09:58:22 2020
From: prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org (Prothero-ELS)
Date: Tue, 5 May 2020 06:58:22 -0700
Subject: Has anyone experience of GPS on iPhone?
In-Reply-To: <AA99F22C-014C-4E9C-918A-4B38CFA9FDFE@mac.com>
References: <AA99F22C-014C-4E9C-918A-4B38CFA9FDFE@mac.com>
Message-ID: <17C6BF13-EC1C-4F05-9925-1FF8824C355E@earthlearningsolutions.org>

Graham,
This makes me wonder how the Google and Apple Maps get their accuracy. When driving or walking, trying to figure out how to get to an address, it shows me walking along a street, certainly more accurate than 20meters. Yet, when I?m wondering where my wife is, and load up ?Find My iphone?, the location does jump around (easily 20 meters) for awhile, then seems to settle down. Hmm... In the olden days, NASA used to add error into publicly available gps readings, for security reasons. But now errors are not added and geo scientists are measuring very small fault motion with gps, but it?s comparing relative motion between two stations so wouldn?t apply in your case. I think some serious internet searching may be in order.

You must have tried Google Maps with satellite view, to see where it puts you relative to your house. You might be interested in this demo of getting google maps from Livecode.

http://earthlearningsolutions.org/google-static-maps-demo/

I  made a basic version of this and a hermann (hh), who helped me figure out the boundary coordinate calculation, added to it. I think it?s also in the livecode repository. It?s a couple of years old, so .... 

Best,
Bill

William Prothero
https://earthlearningsolutions.org

> On May 5, 2020, at 2:30 AM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> ?Thanks Bill for your two messages. I see from the link you gave that the LC system is (as expected) simply a wrapper for the iOS API, and indeed the term ?horizontal accuracy? is actually used internally in iOS. So it?s unlikely that LC itself is adding to my problems.
> 
> I don?t have access to an entirely different GPS system - all mine are on iPhones and I?m in lockdown. Google Earth reckons my reference point is at 43.276693, 2.160029. (The curious can see where I live).
> 
> Here is a little test done by simply sitting on a bench in my garden - as far as possible, this is what Google Earth is looking at.
> 
> Another app - ?MyAltitude? on my phone. Location 43.2766, 2.1601
> 
> Built-in ?Compass? app. Location 43.2766, 2.1600
> 
> My app - successive calls to mobileCurrentLocation a few seconds apart differ only beyond the fourth decimal place, a typical one is 43.276732 (so 43.277), 2.160163 (so 2.1602). During this set of about 20 measurements, horizontal accuracy varied from a minimum of 5 to a maximum of 23, tending to settle down to the lower end - but on other days I?ve seen much higher maxima, certainly above 60 and very occasionally a lot more.
> 
> So the readings agree, at least to three decimal places. Presumably the accuracy is supposed to tell me the amount of wobble to expect, although it?s measured in metres, whereas longitude and latitude are not so straightforward, since the grid covers a spherical earth. Where I live (England and the South of France), the North-South distance of a second of arc (or .000278 in decimal measurement) is about 20 metres, which is perhaps acceptable in short journeys such as walks, so I need to take account of say four or five decimal places if I?m going to hope for reasonable accuracy. This certainly looks feasible - my only real problem therefore is the wild variation in horizontal accuracy that I?m seeing.
> 
> All this makes me think that I should not have a target accuracy, since I may never hit the target and my user will be waiting forever to start his or her trip. I am therefore about to modify the app so it only looks for consistency - as soon as the horizontal accuracy settles down to a value without say more than five percent of variation, I will allow the trip to start. Seems weird but it?s the best I can do. Without access to anyone else?s coding for an iOS app, I can?t see a way to improve on that strategy. Obviously I will now run tests to see how my app compared with others that measure on-the-ground trip distance, particularly for short distances. 
> 
> In case anyone else thinks this is interesting (!), I?ll report back.
> 
> Graham
> 
>> On 4 May 2020, at 16:02, Prothero-ELS via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Graham,
>> I would want to be verifying the coordinates with another gps device. I?d also check it against apps that give lat/Lon. 
>> 
>> Bill
>> 
>> William Prothero
>> https://earthlearningsolutions.org
>> 
>>>> On May 4, 2020, at 5:07 AM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?I?m using GPS on iPhone using the various commands and functions available in LC. Most of this works, but I am having difficulty with the quantity ?horizontal accuracy?. This can be queried via an array which is returned when mobileCurrentLocation() is executed. 
>>> 
>>> Looking at other iOS apps that use GPS and allow one to examine their data, I find that in my part of the world, accuracy for them is of the order of 5 metres: but when I query it using LC I get much higher numbers, indeed some of them look like nonsense, being hundreds of metres!
>>> 
>>> I am aware that it takes time for a GPS signal to settle down after mobileStartTrackingSensor ?location? has been called, but even if I script the examination of accuracy to wait for it to settle down (I look for a run of similar or identical readings against a ?reasonable? criterion, such as 5 metres), it still sometimes settles on very large numbers comparatively speaking, for example it might stabilise at 65 metres. With that level of inaccuracy any cumulative use, as in working out the number of kilometres in a trip, would not be reliable.
>>> 
>>> I wonder if my expectation is wrong, or if there is something different about LC?s encapsulation of these iOS outputs, or if there is some other explanation.
>>> 
>>> In the short term, I?m simply going to have to relax my search for a reasonable accuracy of the order of 5 metres, and just go for the first run of stable readings. But I would love to hear any further insight from anyone who?s already tried it.
>>> 
>>> Graham
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org  Tue May  5 10:17:44 2020
From: prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org (Prothero-ELS)
Date: Tue, 5 May 2020 07:17:44 -0700
Subject: OT: Need some offlist help with PHP-SQL
In-Reply-To: <00f701d622df$52a78510$f7f68f30$@kestner.de>
References: <00f701d622df$52a78510$f7f68f30$@kestner.de>
Message-ID: <7D4BBA84-AE59-495C-AB56-C93F0AC7A982@earthlearningsolutions.org>

Tiemo,
I have some demo code that uses AES encryption to communicate securely with A mysql database. It might help.

http://earthlearningsolutions.org/google-static-maps-demo/

Good luck, Bill

William Prothero
https://earthlearningsolutions.org

> On May 5, 2020, at 6:16 AM, Tiemo via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> ?Hello,
> 
> 
> 
> I have some LC front end software, calling PHP scripts going on a SQL db.
> 
> The PHP scripts are not made by me and they are about 10 years old. I have
> to upgrade the PHP version on the webserver of my hosting provider from 7.1
> to 7.4 and within my test environment I am getting some PHP errors when
> testing with 7.4. Probably the issue is only a very small syntax thing with
> missing parentheses or something like that, but I am not good enough in PHP
> to find the issue.
> 
> If you are willing to help me updating my PHP scripts to 7.4, please give me
> a note offlist. I would also like to pay for your work!
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> 
> 
> Tiemo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From david.bovill at gmail.com  Tue May  5 10:31:07 2020
From: david.bovill at gmail.com (David Bovill)
Date: Tue, 5 May 2020 15:31:07 +0100
Subject: Group resizing.
In-Reply-To: <68e6b74a-f0a9-a2e5-7acd-f6dfa8b56a5c@tweedly.net>
References: <2217e04f-2ee2-f838-3aef-756cfb45495e@tweedly.net>
 <155d4e56-5b41-4a85-9caa-9d1c84a0ba7a@Spark>
 <268afdad-bc91-41d9-90b9-638fbb381193@Spark>
 <2c634195-c2f9-890a-5a35-3ac3a9b84e39@tweedly.net>
 <4EC35ED4-4ED7-4E8F-BE51-509EA5B2A86E@elementarysoftware.com>
 <1d9e6fd0-879d-41c3-8a8e-eed1f2525e55@Spark>
 <68e6b74a-f0a9-a2e5-7acd-f6dfa8b56a5c@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <f60027d0-1069-4c22-a3e9-5d831ab57c4e@Spark>

Yes - this sort of bug is why having a couple of simple tools helps when developing these dynamically resizing widgets.
On 4 May 2020, 14:17 +0100, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
> David,
>
> thank you - that's a kind and generous offer to Zoom / pair on it.
> However, since the immediate problem is solved, I'd rather take a
> raincheck, and keep your offer in my back pocket for some future time I
> have a problem.
>
> Summary of this case - when you do resizing based on groups, you should
> be sure to have the lockLocation of the groups set true.
>
> I had a silly typo
> ?? set the top of something to the bottom of another+10
> and I had
> ?? set the top of something to the bottom of another+1000
>
> If lockLocation had been set, that would have been trivially obvious,
> and fixed in 30 seconds. However, it wasn't, so the group grew out of
> scale and obscured? most of the window, including where the problematic
> controls should have been - so I couldn't see they had gone astray..
>
> And by bad luck, when I started adding "put .... to msg" statements, I
> happened to span a bit of code that *only* tried to change X
> coordinates, and was actually changing Y coords (because of group
> inclusion). So I spent a long time down a rabbit hole of trying to see
> find which code could be doing that, not realizing this "feature" that
> changing one dimension would expand both dimensions of the group.
>
> Thanks again,
>
> Alex.
>
> P.S. any thoughts on another group Zoom for Livecoders ? Haven't heard
> more from Heather (and they may be busy), so maybe we should try to
> arrange a community get-together ?
>
>
> On 04/05/2020 10:09, David Bovill via use-livecode wrote:
> > Trying to understand this thread. I?ve been doing nested group resizing for all my work now for several years - it has been difficult often to debug track errors because of all the nested messages.
> >
> > As a result I?ve had to make a bunch of tools to test each nested element before they are combined, and also I?ve developed a consistent style of doing it - which may mean that I?m not coming across the issue you report.
> >
> > My suggestion Alex is the only way to explore this is to jump into a Zoom where we can share practice and see visually the issue? It would also be more fun at this time if lock down?
> >
> > Feel free to pick a time if that appeals - I got nothing better to do :)
> >
> > ? https://woven.com/c/david62/pairprogramming
> >
> > On 4 May 2020, 01:38 +0100, scott--- via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
> > > Oh good, I was hoping I wasn?t the only one.
> > >
> > > ?
> > > Scott
> > >
> > >
> > > > On May 3, 2020, at 11:28 AM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > <snip>
> > > > I can now get back to my "10-minute cleanup task" that I started 8 hours ago :-)
> > > >
> > > > Alex.
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > use-livecode mailing list
> > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From paul at researchware.com  Tue May  5 10:52:16 2020
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Tue, 5 May 2020 10:52:16 -0400
Subject: OT: How to graph a specific data set?
In-Reply-To: <fded1387-b51d-7e5f-323d-54c0c60dd652@researchware.com>
References: <fded1387-b51d-7e5f-323d-54c0c60dd652@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <f5f4288a-119c-dd8d-af2f-2fd055b733e6@researchware.com>

This is NOT a "How to do this in LiveCode" question.

I have a data set (below), produced by a LiveCode program and the data 
is exported to Excel.

I am trying to figure out:

1) What the "best" style of graph to visualize this data is? I thought 
perhaps a "Bubble Chart" but? - in Excel at least - does not seem to 
work for this data.


2) After determining the "best" chart style is, what charting tool (if 
not Excel) can generate that style of chart for this data?

Any tips anyone may have would be very welcome.

The data set is below. This shows that "A" intersects with B once and C 
intersects with J 4 times (as example of how to read the data). I have 
replaced the actual labels (text strings for rows and columns) with the 
English alphabet for simplicity.



	A 	B 	C 	D 	E 	F 	G 	H 	I 	J 	K 	L 	M 	N 	O 	P 	Q 	R 	S 	T 	U 	V 	W 	X 
Y 	Z
A 	0 	1 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 
0 	0 	0
B 	
	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0
C 	
	
	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	1 	0 	4 	1 	0 	2 	0 	0 	1 	1 	0 	0 	1 	0 	0 	1 	0 	1 	1
D 	
	
	
	0 	0 	0 	1 	0 	0 	0 	1 	0 	0 	0 	1 	0 	0 	0 	1 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	1 	0
E 	
	
	
	
	0 	1 	0 	0 	0 	0 	1 	0 	1 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0
F 	
	
	
	
	
	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0
G 	
	
	
	
	
	
	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	1 	0
H 	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	1 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0
I 	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	0 	0 	0 	1 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0
J 	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	0 	1 	0 	1 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0
K 	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	0 	0 	1 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	1 	0 	0 	1 	1 	0 	0 	0
L 	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	0 	0 	0 	2 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0
M 	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0
N 	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0
O 	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	1 	0 	0 	0 	1 	0 	0 	0 	0 	1 	0 	0
P 	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	0 	0 	1 	0 	1 	0 	0 	0 	0 	1 	1
Q 	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0
R 	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0
S 	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0
T 	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	1 	1
U 	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0
V 	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	0 	0 	0 	0 	0
W 	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	0 	1 	0 	0
X 	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	0 	0 	0
Y 	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	0 	1
Z 	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	0




From prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org  Tue May  5 11:17:06 2020
From: prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org (Prothero-ELS)
Date: Tue, 5 May 2020 08:17:06 -0700
Subject: OT: How to graph a specific data set?
In-Reply-To: <f5f4288a-119c-dd8d-af2f-2fd055b733e6@researchware.com>
References: <f5f4288a-119c-dd8d-af2f-2fd055b733e6@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <218936AD-0C23-499E-BB17-99494A636E45@earthlearningsolutions.org>

Paul,
The first question I have is: ?what are you trying to communicate with your chart?? The answer to that question will point to a charting strategy.
Bill

William Prothero
https://earthlearningsolutions.org

> On May 5, 2020, at 7:53 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> ?This is NOT a "How to do this in LiveCode" question.
> 
> I have a data set (below), produced by a LiveCode program and the data is exported to Excel.
> 
> I am trying to figure out:
> 
> 1) What the "best" style of graph to visualize this data is? I thought perhaps a "Bubble Chart" but  - in Excel at least - does not seem to work for this data.
> 
> 
> 2) After determining the "best" chart style is, what charting tool (if not Excel) can generate that style of chart for this data?
> 
> Any tips anyone may have would be very welcome.
> 
> The data set is below. This shows that "A" intersects with B once and C intersects with J 4 times (as example of how to read the data). I have replaced the actual labels (text strings for rows and columns) with the English alphabet for simplicity.
> 
> 
> 
>    A    B    C    D    E    F    G    H    I    J    K    L    M    N    O    P    Q    R    S    T    U    V    W    X Y    Z
> A    0    1    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0 0    0    0
> B    
>    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0
> C    
>    
>    0    0    0    0    0    1    0    4    1    0    2    0    0    1    1    0    0    1    0    0    1    0    1    1
> D    
>    
>    
>    0    0    0    1    0    0    0    1    0    0    0    1    0    0    0    1    0    0    0    0    0    1    0
> E    
>    
>    
>    
>    0    1    0    0    0    0    1    0    1    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0
> F    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0
> G    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    1    0
> H    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    1    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0
> I    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    0    0    0    1    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0
> J    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    0    1    0    1    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0
> K    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    0    0    1    0    0    0    0    0    1    0    0    1    1    0    0    0
> L    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    0    0    0    2    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0
> M    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0
> N    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0
> O    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    1    0    0    0    1    0    0    0    0    1    0    0
> P    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    0    0    1    0    1    0    0    0    0    1    1
> Q    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0
> R    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0
> S    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0
> T    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    0    0    0    0    0    1    1
> U    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    0    0    0    0    0    0
> V    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    0    0    0    0    0
> W    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    0    1    0    0
> X    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    0    0    0
> Y    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    0    1
> Z    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    
>    0
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From paul at researchware.com  Tue May  5 11:29:33 2020
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Tue, 5 May 2020 11:29:33 -0400
Subject: OT: How to graph a specific data set?
In-Reply-To: <218936AD-0C23-499E-BB17-99494A636E45@earthlearningsolutions.org>
References: <f5f4288a-119c-dd8d-af2f-2fd055b733e6@researchware.com>
 <218936AD-0C23-499E-BB17-99494A636E45@earthlearningsolutions.org>
Message-ID: <03f0873d-6b0b-4b41-ad4e-9f1e72f346e9@researchware.com>

On 5/5/2020 11:17 AM, Prothero-ELS via use-livecode wrote:
> Paul,
> The first question I have is: ?what are you trying to communicate with your chart?? The answer to that question will point to a charting strategy.
> Bill

I am trying to visually call attention to those intersections with high 
occurrences.

However, the labels that I replaced with the alphabet for 
confidentiality have meaning to the researchers looking at this and they 
may equally be fascinated when a pair has NO intersections in the data.



From prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org  Tue May  5 12:07:11 2020
From: prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org (Prothero-ELS)
Date: Tue, 5 May 2020 09:07:11 -0700
Subject: OT: How to graph a specific data set?
In-Reply-To: <03f0873d-6b0b-4b41-ad4e-9f1e72f346e9@researchware.com>
References: <03f0873d-6b0b-4b41-ad4e-9f1e72f346e9@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <88F53182-EC5D-415C-8630-0A05A2FD36A7@earthlearningsolutions.org>

Paul,
Still, if there is some parameter that you want to examine that correlates to the intersections, that would influence your chart. I am suspecting you want to keep the experiment confidential, but I would need a lot more information about the source of the data and goals of the experiment to make useful comments. But, I think if you carefully state the questions that are being asked about the data, the answer will become more clear to you.

I suspect the researchers would want to assess correlations between intersections, or the lack of, with other variables. Offhand, you could map the intersections and color code them with the magnitude of the variable you are trying to correlate them with. Just guessing.... That assumes the intersections are geographic and there are other variables related to the intersection.

I?d be glad to brainstorm with you off-list, if you think it would be helpful.

Best,
Bill

William Prothero
https://earthlearningsolutions.org

> On May 5, 2020, at 8:30 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> ?On 5/5/2020 11:17 AM, Prothero-ELS via use-livecode wrote:
>> Paul,
>> The first question I have is: ?what are you trying to communicate with your chart?? The answer to that question will point to a charting strategy.
>> Bill
> 
> I am trying to visually call attention to those intersections with high occurrences.
> 
> However, the labels that I replaced with the alphabet for confidentiality have meaning to the researchers looking at this and they may equally be fascinated when a pair has NO intersections in the data.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From mkoob at rogers.com  Tue May  5 12:24:43 2020
From: mkoob at rogers.com (Martin Koob)
Date: Tue, 5 May 2020 12:24:43 -0400
Subject: OT: How to graph a specific data set?
In-Reply-To: <88F53182-EC5D-415C-8630-0A05A2FD36A7@earthlearningsolutions.org>
References: <03f0873d-6b0b-4b41-ad4e-9f1e72f346e9@researchware.com>
 <88F53182-EC5D-415C-8630-0A05A2FD36A7@earthlearningsolutions.org>
Message-ID: <02EF83D7-6398-461C-B23E-A5C4B491BD1D@rogers.com>

Hi Paul

Just looking at the data I think a 3D chart like this image would be good.  

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Wolfgang_Effelsberg/publication/221453979/figure/fig3/AS:305503222681602 at 1449849052222/A-visualization-with-load-distribution-bar-chart_Q320.jpg
Mountain background would be optional I think :-).

You could conditionally colour code the bars as well as Bill suggested to make correlated intersections stand out (especially if you have a large range)  i.e. all 0 intersections are a black or white dot, all 1 intersections are red, 2 intersections are orange, 3 intersections are yellow, 4 intersections are green and so on.

Martin




> On May 5, 2020, at 12:07 PM, Prothero-ELS via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Paul,
> Still, if there is some parameter that you want to examine that correlates to the intersections, that would influence your chart. I am suspecting you want to keep the experiment confidential, but I would need a lot more information about the source of the data and goals of the experiment to make useful comments. But, I think if you carefully state the questions that are being asked about the data, the answer will become more clear to you.
> 
> I suspect the researchers would want to assess correlations between intersections, or the lack of, with other variables. Offhand, you could map the intersections and color code them with the magnitude of the variable you are trying to correlate them with. Just guessing.... That assumes the intersections are geographic and there are other variables related to the intersection.
> 
> I?d be glad to brainstorm with you off-list, if you think it would be helpful.
> 
> Best,
> Bill
> 
> William Prothero
> https://earthlearningsolutions.org
> 
>> On May 5, 2020, at 8:30 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> ?On 5/5/2020 11:17 AM, Prothero-ELS via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Paul,
>>> The first question I have is: ?what are you trying to communicate with your chart?? The answer to that question will point to a charting strategy.
>>> Bill
>> 
>> I am trying to visually call attention to those intersections with high occurrences.
>> 
>> However, the labels that I replaced with the alphabet for confidentiality have meaning to the researchers looking at this and they may equally be fascinated when a pair has NO intersections in the data.
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From jeejeestudio at gmail.com  Tue May  5 15:47:55 2020
From: jeejeestudio at gmail.com (JeeJeeStudio)
Date: Tue, 5 May 2020 21:47:55 +0200
Subject: OT: Need some offlist help with PHP-SQL
In-Reply-To: <899C2999-D673-4748-AB0D-F500205322CC@all-auctions.com>
References: <00f701d622df$52a78510$f7f68f30$@kestner.de>
 <899C2999-D673-4748-AB0D-F500205322CC@all-auctions.com>
Message-ID: <32f0908a-b007-e7d2-d898-e78f1e99d2c6@gmail.com>

Well that's nonsense that php would not be save, you need to make sure 
you are not providing reasons for injections.

You need to use Mysqli or PDO

You could check here: https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=27521

It's described in simple ways how to use PHP scripts using PDO as middleware

I use it too, there are a lot of tips on the web how to do it save.


Op 5-5-2020 om 15:27 schreef Rick Harrison via use-livecode:
> Hi Tiemo,
>
> If I were you, I would not use PHP just for security reasons alone.
>
> My servers are just pounded all the time with hackers trying to
> find PHP exploits.  They even try to install PHP on my server so
> they can start hacking away. If you check your server?s log files
> I am sure you will find similar hackers trying to hack your PHP.
> They may have already been successful too!
>
> If you can do it, I would recommend turning those PHP scripts into
> LC scripts as soon as possible.
>
> Good luck,
>
> Rick
>
>> On May 5, 2020, at 9:16 AM, Tiemo via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>>
>>
>> I have some LC front end software, calling PHP scripts going on a SQL db.
>>
>> The PHP scripts are not made by me and they are about 10 years old. I have
>> to upgrade the PHP version on the webserver of my hosting provider from 7.1
>> to 7.4 and within my test environment I am getting some PHP errors when
>> testing with 7.4. Probably the issue is only a very small syntax thing with
>> missing parentheses or something like that, but I am not good enough in PHP
>> to find the issue.
>>
>> If you are willing to help me updating my PHP scripts to 7.4, please give me
>> a note offlist. I would also like to pay for your work!
>>
>> Thank you!
>>
>>
>>
>> Tiemo
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From paul at researchware.com  Tue May  5 16:38:47 2020
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Tue, 5 May 2020 16:38:47 -0400
Subject: I need some DataGrid performance help
Message-ID: <77f6116a-163c-52f0-6582-d84879149a32@researchware.com>

I have a datagid operation that should be fast that is taking a long 
time and I don't understand why.

I use a datagrid to display a table of data as part of an analysis. The 
columns are file names and the rows are selected phrases found in those 
files. The first column is the list of phrases (162 in this example). 
The remaining columns are all the file name (254 in this example). So 
each cell (2 to 254) represents a count of the number of times the 
phrase (in column 1 of the row) was found the the file that column 
represents.

I have the following code:

 ? set the dgColumnWidth[tRowColumnName]????? of grp 
"rwMatrixObj_DataGrid" to 200
 ? set the dgColumnAlignment[tRowColumnName]? of grp 
"rwMatrixObj_DataGrid" to "left"
 ? set the dgColumnSortType[tRowColumnName]?? of grp 
"rwMatrixObj_DataGrid" to "text"
 ? set the dgColumnIsEditable[tRowColumnName] of grp 
"rwMatrixObj_DataGrid" to false
 ? repeat with i=2 to the number of lines in tColumnNames
 ??? put line i of tColumnNames into tColumnName
 ??? set the dgColumnTooltip[tColumnName]??? of grp 
"rwMatrixObj_DataGrid" to tColumnName
 ??? set the dgColumnWidth[tColumnName]????? of grp 
"rwMatrixObj_DataGrid" to 75
 ??? set the dgColumnAlignment[tColumnName]? of grp 
"rwMatrixObj_DataGrid" to "right"
 ??? set the dgColumnSortType[tColumnName]?? of grp 
"rwMatrixObj_DataGrid" to "numeric"
 ??? set the dgColumnSortDirection[tColumnName] of grp 
"rwMatrixObj_DataGrid" to "descending"
 ??? set the dgColumnIsEditable[tColumnName] of grp 
"rwMatrixObj_DataGrid" to false
 ? end repeat

The first time this executes it takes just under 3 minutes for this size 
of data (254 columns). However, the second and each successive time in 
the same session it takes just under 30 minutes!

Any idea why it would take so long?

Thoughts on how to speed it up?

I realize that I could use: 'set the dgProp["column widths"] of grp <DG> 
to <returnDelimitedListOfWidths>' as a single set action vs a loop where 
I am using 'set the dgColumnWidth[tColumnName] of grp <DG> to 
<singleWidth>'.

However, there are only Datagid properties so set attributes for ALL 
columns for alignments, visibility, widths, and labels. Therefore, I 
have to use a loop anyway to set the tooltip, sorttype, sortdirection, 
end editability

The column names (in the variable tColumnNames) are file names. Some are 
long (longest is 113 characters) and some contain assorted punctuation. 
I wonder is the column NAMES should be somehting plain ASCII and short 
and the column LABELS contain the file names?

This is all in LiveCode 9.5.1 on Windows. Timing is approximately the 
same in a Standalone or the IDE.

Anyway, if anyone has a good idea of what is taking this 30 minutes, 
ideas would be very welcome!



From sean at pidigital.co.uk  Tue May  5 17:02:47 2020
From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Pi Digital)
Date: Tue, 5 May 2020 22:02:47 +0100
Subject: OT: Need some offlist help with PHP-SQL
In-Reply-To: <32f0908a-b007-e7d2-d898-e78f1e99d2c6@gmail.com>
References: <32f0908a-b007-e7d2-d898-e78f1e99d2c6@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1D2FE57B-E71A-4D47-B926-6AFF40EFFDFF@pidigital.co.uk>

I?m collating my library together. It was built with our specific purposes and had an encryptor I developed myself as the AES library in LC does not work in HTML deployment yet. It will take me another day or so to extract the components into something generic and intuitive. 

Php can be safe if you use encryption and, as one of the others said, ensure it is held in the LC code (as long as that?s encrypted too, so not from the community version of LC; it must be created from Indy or Business or it will be easy to hack). And use good login methods with strong pass keys. If you store User Pass Keys on your database, double or triple encrypt them. Everything else will likely be safe if you set your space to be https only. 

I had started an AES encryptor for HTML deployment but got pulled onto more pressing things. 

Because LC HQ seems uninterested in further development of the HTML platform and recent eco issues my client is rethinking if this is the best way to go. As it stands it does seem high-risk that it becomes outright abandonware in terms of HTML deployment. I?m on tender hooks whether we will continue development given this lack of LC HQ interest. 

Sean Cole
Pi Digital Productions Ltd


> On 5 May 2020, at 20:47, JeeJeeStudio via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> ?Well that's nonsense that php would not be save, you need to make sure you are not providing reasons for injections.
> 
> You need to use Mysqli or PDO
> 
> You could check here: https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=27521
> 
> It's described in simple ways how to use PHP scripts using PDO as middleware
> 
> I use it too, there are a lot of tips on the web how to do it save.
> 
> 
> Op 5-5-2020 om 15:27 schreef Rick Harrison via use-livecode:
>> Hi Tiemo,
>> 
>> If I were you, I would not use PHP just for security reasons alone.
>> 
>> My servers are just pounded all the time with hackers trying to
>> find PHP exploits.  They even try to install PHP on my server so
>> they can start hacking away. If you check your server?s log files
>> I am sure you will find similar hackers trying to hack your PHP.
>> They may have already been successful too!
>> 
>> If you can do it, I would recommend turning those PHP scripts into
>> LC scripts as soon as possible.
>> 
>> Good luck,
>> 
>> Rick
>> 
>>>> On May 5, 2020, at 9:16 AM, Tiemo via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I have some LC front end software, calling PHP scripts going on a SQL db.
>>> 
>>> The PHP scripts are not made by me and they are about 10 years old. I have
>>> to upgrade the PHP version on the webserver of my hosting provider from 7.1
>>> to 7.4 and within my test environment I am getting some PHP errors when
>>> testing with 7.4. Probably the issue is only a very small syntax thing with
>>> missing parentheses or something like that, but I am not good enough in PHP
>>> to find the issue.
>>> 
>>> If you are willing to help me updating my PHP scripts to 7.4, please give me
>>> a note offlist. I would also like to pay for your work!
>>> 
>>> Thank you!
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Tiemo
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From colinholgate at gmail.com  Tue May  5 17:12:42 2020
From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate)
Date: Tue, 5 May 2020 15:12:42 -0600
Subject: Another off topic challenge
Message-ID: <3888A5D2-6A22-4C9C-BE39-9F0ECA477C2B@gmail.com>

Many of you are way more into tricky Windows things than I am, so I thought it would be worth asking this here.

In my Windows 10 I can run this line in PowerShell:

Get-WmiObject -Query "SELECT * FROM Win32_ComputerSystem?

It echos a few lines of information about my system. When I try the same on a customer?s machine I get this:

Get-WmiObject : Invalid class "Win32_ComputerSystem"
At line:1 char:1
+ Get-WmiObject -Query "SELECT * FROM Win32_ComputerSystem"
+ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    + CategoryInfo          : InvalidType: (:) [Get-WmiObject], ManagementException
    + FullyQualifiedErrorId : GetWMIManagementException,Microsoft.PowerShell.Commands.GetWmiObjectCommand


What is Win32_ComputerSystem, and what could make it be invalid?




From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Tue May  5 19:47:26 2020
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Tue, 5 May 2020 18:47:26 -0500
Subject: HTML Platform
In-Reply-To: <1D2FE57B-E71A-4D47-B926-6AFF40EFFDFF@pidigital.co.uk>
References: <32f0908a-b007-e7d2-d898-e78f1e99d2c6@gmail.com>
 <1D2FE57B-E71A-4D47-B926-6AFF40EFFDFF@pidigital.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CAHg3tG95A8HqCQ2aLeL5t6Z+Vf53zu5pNVeOSgY6tSSYM6dUYQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 4:03 PM Pi Digital via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> ...
> Because LC HQ seems uninterested in further development of the HTML
> platform and recent eco issues my client is rethinking if this is the best
> way to go. As it stands it does seem high-risk that it becomes outright
> abandonware in terms of HTML deployment. I?m on tender hooks whether we
> will continue development given this lack of LC HQ interest.
>

 I don't use HTML deployment myself, but thought I would mention that there
has been some emscripten activity in GitHub lately. Looks like WebAssembly
(WASM) support is being added. You can see the commits here:

https://github.com/livecodeian/livecode/commits/feature-emscripten-llvm

And here is the specific commit with the README:

https://github.com/livecodeian/livecode/commit/11dd134996f441abbbc802dba64c760ec800a10e

-- 
Trevor DeVore
ScreenSteps - https://www.screensteps.com
Levure App Framework for LiveCode - https://github.com/trevordevore/levure/
LiveCode Repos -
https://github.com/search?q=user%3Atrevordevore+topic:livecode
LiveCode Builder Repos -
https://github.com/search?q=user%3Atrevordevore+topic:livecode-builder


From ahsoftware at sonic.net  Tue May  5 22:11:12 2020
From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Tue, 5 May 2020 19:11:12 -0700
Subject: HTML Platform
In-Reply-To: <CAHg3tG95A8HqCQ2aLeL5t6Z+Vf53zu5pNVeOSgY6tSSYM6dUYQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <32f0908a-b007-e7d2-d898-e78f1e99d2c6@gmail.com>
 <1D2FE57B-E71A-4D47-B926-6AFF40EFFDFF@pidigital.co.uk>
 <CAHg3tG95A8HqCQ2aLeL5t6Z+Vf53zu5pNVeOSgY6tSSYM6dUYQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <24472011-1314-5eb7-22f8-c20998b76b56@sonic.net>

On 5/5/20 4:47 PM, Trevor DeVore via use-livecode wrote:

>   I don't use HTML deployment myself, but thought I would mention that there
> has been some emscripten activity in GitHub lately. Looks like WebAssembly
> (WASM) support is being added. You can see the commits here:
> 
> https://github.com/livecodeian/livecode/commits/feature-emscripten-llvm
> 
> And here is the specific commit with the README:
> 
> https://github.com/livecodeian/livecode/commit/11dd134996f441abbbc802dba64c760ec800a10e
> 

Yeah, I saw the github posts come flying by, and that's a promising 
feature, but it doesn't address the limitations and broken features of 
the current html implementation. Yet, at any rate. Also, it remains to 
be seen how much bloat this adds to deployed web apps.

These may be of interest:
https://floooh.github.io/2017/06/09/webassembly-demystified.html
<https://hacks.mozilla.org/2017/07/memory-in-webassembly-and-why-its-safer-than-you-think/>

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From paul at livecode.org  Wed May  6 00:49:46 2020
From: paul at livecode.org (Paul Hibbert)
Date: Tue, 5 May 2020 21:49:46 -0700
Subject: I need some DataGrid performance help
In-Reply-To: <77f6116a-163c-52f0-6582-d84879149a32@researchware.com>
References: <77f6116a-163c-52f0-6582-d84879149a32@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <69032720-1C07-4C24-8AFE-16CD82394517@livecode.org>

I?ve no idea if this could help or even if this may cause worse problems with a DG, so just a thought, but have you tested with Lock Screen, Lock Messages and/or Lock Updates while the repeat is processing?

Failing that, I would try disabling each command in turn to find out if just one of them is causing the worst problem.

Paul

> On May 5, 2020, at 13:38, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I have a datagid operation that should be fast that is taking a long time and I don't understand why.
> 
> I use a datagrid to display a table of data as part of an analysis. The columns are file names and the rows are selected phrases found in those files. The first column is the list of phrases (162 in this example). The remaining columns are all the file name (254 in this example). So each cell (2 to 254) represents a count of the number of times the phrase (in column 1 of the row) was found the the file that column represents.
> 
> I have the following code:
> 
>   set the dgColumnWidth[tRowColumnName]      of grp "rwMatrixObj_DataGrid" to 200
>   set the dgColumnAlignment[tRowColumnName]  of grp "rwMatrixObj_DataGrid" to "left"
>   set the dgColumnSortType[tRowColumnName]   of grp "rwMatrixObj_DataGrid" to "text"
>   set the dgColumnIsEditable[tRowColumnName] of grp "rwMatrixObj_DataGrid" to false
>   repeat with i=2 to the number of lines in tColumnNames
>     put line i of tColumnNames into tColumnName
>     set the dgColumnTooltip[tColumnName]    of grp "rwMatrixObj_DataGrid" to tColumnName
>     set the dgColumnWidth[tColumnName]      of grp "rwMatrixObj_DataGrid" to 75
>     set the dgColumnAlignment[tColumnName]  of grp "rwMatrixObj_DataGrid" to "right"
>     set the dgColumnSortType[tColumnName]   of grp "rwMatrixObj_DataGrid" to "numeric"
>     set the dgColumnSortDirection[tColumnName] of grp "rwMatrixObj_DataGrid" to "descending"
>     set the dgColumnIsEditable[tColumnName] of grp "rwMatrixObj_DataGrid" to false
>   end repeat
> 
> The first time this executes it takes just under 3 minutes for this size of data (254 columns). However, the second and each successive time in the same session it takes just under 30 minutes!
> 
> Any idea why it would take so long?
> 
> Thoughts on how to speed it up?
> 
> I realize that I could use: 'set the dgProp["column widths"] of grp <DG> to <returnDelimitedListOfWidths>' as a single set action vs a loop where I am using 'set the dgColumnWidth[tColumnName] of grp <DG> to <singleWidth>'.
> 
> However, there are only Datagid properties so set attributes for ALL columns for alignments, visibility, widths, and labels. Therefore, I have to use a loop anyway to set the tooltip, sorttype, sortdirection, end editability
> 
> The column names (in the variable tColumnNames) are file names. Some are long (longest is 113 characters) and some contain assorted punctuation. I wonder is the column NAMES should be somehting plain ASCII and short and the column LABELS contain the file names?
> 
> This is all in LiveCode 9.5.1 on Windows. Timing is approximately the same in a Standalone or the IDE.
> 
> Anyway, if anyone has a good idea of what is taking this 30 minutes, ideas would be very welcome!
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed May  6 02:42:13 2020
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 5 May 2020 23:42:13 -0700
Subject: HTML Platform
In-Reply-To: <24472011-1314-5eb7-22f8-c20998b76b56@sonic.net>
References: <24472011-1314-5eb7-22f8-c20998b76b56@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <3fe9fa9a-7a93-a395-3e10-b47080adccf0@fourthworld.com>

Mark Wieder wrote:

On 5/5/20 4:47 PM, Trevor DeVore via use-livecode wrote:
 >> I don't use HTML deployment myself, but thought I would mention that
 >> there has been some emscripten activity in GitHub lately. Looks like
 >> WebAssembly (WASM) support is being added.
...
 >
 > Yeah, I saw the github posts come flying by, and that's a promising
 > feature, but it doesn't address the limitations and broken features of
 > the current html implementation.

In my own mind I phrase that differently.  Whether it's gentler or more 
stark is up to the reader, but for me it's more:

   ...it can't address the fundamental differences between desktop
   and web architectures, and the limitations inherent in Emscripten.

Emscripten is good for what it was designed to do.  But look deeply at 
LC, consider what Emscripten is, and the more time you spend pondering 
it the clearer it becomes how difficult it is to put a desktop app's 
square peg into a browser hole.

"Difficult" is maybe unfairly optimistic. And "impossible" never applies 
to software. Perhaps "prohibitively expensive" is fair.


 > Also, it remains to be seen how much bloat this adds to deployed web
 > apps.

Putting an entire scripting engine and object model into a browser 
application that already has its own scripting engine and object model 
cannot achieve size, performance, and integration features as well as a 
web-native implementation.

If you truly need a browser as your only deployment option, it's kinda 
hard to argue against going with the grain of the browser.

But most apps that might make good candidates for LC's HTML export have 
characteristics that lend themselves very well to not doing HTML at all, 
instead using a one-time download of an LC standalone which then 
downloads and runs stack files (a practice that, in the absence of a 
more common label, I like to call "streaming apps").

Fits most of the same uses cases, but provides a more focused user 
experience that integrates with the OS as only a native app can.

Extra bonus points that they're cheap and easy to build in LC, fast 
cheaper to deliver sophisticated works than even web-native implementations.

For the sorts of vertical audiences where LC's HTML would seem 
interesting, I believe simply streaming stacks in a standalone is the 
most underappreciated and underutilized opportunity in our community.

MetaCard promoted the idea heavily with some nice example downloads, but 
in all these years only a few of us make streaming apps regularly.

If you're waiting for LC's HTML to get good, let's discuss streaming 
apps for those where they might be a great solution.  We really don't 
need to wait for anything to have the benefits of net-distributed apps. 
You can have it all today, with the LC you know and love already.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From e.beugelaar at me.com  Wed May  6 04:17:28 2020
From: e.beugelaar at me.com (Erik Beugelaar)
Date: Wed, 6 May 2020 10:17:28 +0200
Subject: HTML Platform
In-Reply-To: <3fe9fa9a-7a93-a395-3e10-b47080adccf0@fourthworld.com>
References: <24472011-1314-5eb7-22f8-c20998b76b56@sonic.net>
 <3fe9fa9a-7a93-a395-3e10-b47080adccf0@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <015901d6237e$c9c1a190$5d44e4b0$@me.com>

It would be great if a lesson comes available how to create streaming apps
with LC.


-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> On Behalf Of
Richard Gaskin via use-livecode
Sent: woensdag 6 mei 2020 08:42
To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Cc: Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com>
Subject: Re: HTML Platform

Mark Wieder wrote:

On 5/5/20 4:47 PM, Trevor DeVore via use-livecode wrote:
 >> I don't use HTML deployment myself, but thought I would mention that  >>
there has been some emscripten activity in GitHub lately. Looks like  >>
WebAssembly (WASM) support is being added.
...
 >
 > Yeah, I saw the github posts come flying by, and that's a promising  >
feature, but it doesn't address the limitations and broken features of  >
the current html implementation.

In my own mind I phrase that differently.  Whether it's gentler or more
stark is up to the reader, but for me it's more:

   ...it can't address the fundamental differences between desktop
   and web architectures, and the limitations inherent in Emscripten.

Emscripten is good for what it was designed to do.  But look deeply at LC,
consider what Emscripten is, and the more time you spend pondering it the
clearer it becomes how difficult it is to put a desktop app's square peg
into a browser hole.

"Difficult" is maybe unfairly optimistic. And "impossible" never applies to
software. Perhaps "prohibitively expensive" is fair.


 > Also, it remains to be seen how much bloat this adds to deployed web
 > apps.

Putting an entire scripting engine and object model into a browser 
application that already has its own scripting engine and object model 
cannot achieve size, performance, and integration features as well as a 
web-native implementation.

If you truly need a browser as your only deployment option, it's kinda 
hard to argue against going with the grain of the browser.

But most apps that might make good candidates for LC's HTML export have 
characteristics that lend themselves very well to not doing HTML at all, 
instead using a one-time download of an LC standalone which then 
downloads and runs stack files (a practice that, in the absence of a 
more common label, I like to call "streaming apps").

Fits most of the same uses cases, but provides a more focused user 
experience that integrates with the OS as only a native app can.

Extra bonus points that they're cheap and easy to build in LC, fast 
cheaper to deliver sophisticated works than even web-native implementations.

For the sorts of vertical audiences where LC's HTML would seem 
interesting, I believe simply streaming stacks in a standalone is the 
most underappreciated and underutilized opportunity in our community.

MetaCard promoted the idea heavily with some nice example downloads, but 
in all these years only a few of us make streaming apps regularly.

If you're waiting for LC's HTML to get good, let's discuss streaming 
apps for those where they might be a great solution.  We really don't 
need to wait for anything to have the benefits of net-distributed apps. 
You can have it all today, with the LC you know and love already.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com

_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From sean at pidigital.co.uk  Wed May  6 06:27:43 2020
From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Pi Digital)
Date: Wed, 6 May 2020 11:27:43 +0100
Subject: HTML Platform
In-Reply-To: <3fe9fa9a-7a93-a395-3e10-b47080adccf0@fourthworld.com>
References: <3fe9fa9a-7a93-a395-3e10-b47080adccf0@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <E0826342-E2CC-4024-8895-237E040C4E50@pidigital.co.uk>

Two words, Richard. 
IT Departments. 
Of the 150+clients my client has, 150+ of them would emphatically prefer a web based app than a desktop one. They don?t want stuff ?installed? or ?run? on their machines that haven?t been thoroughly tested before use. Each and every update. And they really don?t want to have to keep testing each and every update. Using Chrome/Edge-Chromium overcomes all of that. 

Having built his business over 10 yrs ago with zero coding experience and learning LC from scratch, to now, remaining his only coding platform/language, he wants a way to continue being able to contribute without having to learn a new language while still taking his maaassive app suite onto the web. Emscripten is (part-way to) a godsend. 

If only the basics worked as they had before chromium deprecated old event handler syntax. That?s the major crux of its current downfall. Otherwise it?s an incredibly powerful way of coding for the web.

And mySQL from LC in the browser is tonnes faster than on the desktop - massively! Because they?re both on the same server. Even though the message path is LC>JS>(AJAX)>PHP>JS>LC!

Sean

> In my own mind I phrase that differently.  Whether it's gentler or more stark is up to the reader, but for me it's more:
> 
>  ...it can't address the fundamental differences between desktop
>  and web architectures, and the limitations inherent in Emscripten.
> 
> Emscripten is good for what it was designed to do.  But look deeply at LC, consider what Emscripten is, and the more time you spend pondering it the clearer it becomes how difficult it is to put a desktop app's square peg into a browser hole.
> 
> Putting an entire scripting engine and object model into a browser application that already has its own scripting engine and object model cannot achieve size, performance, and integration features as well as a web-native implementation.
> 
> If you truly need a browser as your only deployment option, it's kinda hard to argue against going with the grain of the browser.
> 
> But most apps that might make good candidates for LC's HTML export have characteristics that lend themselves very well to not doing HTML at all, instead using a one-time download of an LC standalone which then downloads and runs stack files (a practice that, in the absence of a more common label, I like to call "streaming apps").
> 
> Fits most of the same uses cases, but provides a more focused user experience that integrates with the OS as only a native app can.
> 
> Extra bonus points that they're cheap and easy to build in LC, fast cheaper to deliver sophisticated works than even web-native implementations.
> 
> For the sorts of vertical audiences where LC's HTML would seem interesting, I believe simply streaming stacks in a standalone is the most underappreciated and underutilized opportunity in our community.
> 
> MetaCard promoted the idea heavily with some nice example downloads, but in all these years only a few of us make streaming apps regularly.
> 
> If you're waiting for LC's HTML to get good, let's discuss streaming apps for those where they might be a great solution.  We really don't need to wait for anything to have the benefits of net-distributed apps. You can have it all today, with the LC you know and love already.
> 
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin


From sean at pidigital.co.uk  Wed May  6 06:55:19 2020
From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Pi Digital)
Date: Wed, 6 May 2020 11:55:19 +0100
Subject: I need some DataGrid performance help
In-Reply-To: <77f6116a-163c-52f0-6582-d84879149a32@researchware.com>
References: <77f6116a-163c-52f0-6582-d84879149a32@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <3F2E59E8-94E9-4F08-BAC7-633015E34B80@pidigital.co.uk>

Hi Paul

What handler do you have this code? From what you are saying it seems it?s deploying this formatting script every time it redraws which itself is very inefficient and unnecessary. It should only have to deal with the data itself ideally. 

Sean Cole
Pi Digital Productions Ltd


eMail Ts & Cs


> On 5 May 2020, at 21:38, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> ?I have a datagid operation that should be fast that is taking a long time and I don't understand why.
> 
> I use a datagrid to display a table of data as part of an analysis. The columns are file names and the rows are selected phrases found in those files. The first column is the list of phrases (162 in this example). The remaining columns are all the file name (254 in this example). So each cell (2 to 254) represents a count of the number of times the phrase (in column 1 of the row) was found the the file that column represents.
> 
> I have the following code:
> 
>   set the dgColumnWidth[tRowColumnName]      of grp "rwMatrixObj_DataGrid" to 200
>   set the dgColumnAlignment[tRowColumnName]  of grp "rwMatrixObj_DataGrid" to "left"
>   set the dgColumnSortType[tRowColumnName]   of grp "rwMatrixObj_DataGrid" to "text"
>   set the dgColumnIsEditable[tRowColumnName] of grp "rwMatrixObj_DataGrid" to false
>   repeat with i=2 to the number of lines in tColumnNames
>     put line i of tColumnNames into tColumnName
>     set the dgColumnTooltip[tColumnName]    of grp "rwMatrixObj_DataGrid" to tColumnName
>     set the dgColumnWidth[tColumnName]      of grp "rwMatrixObj_DataGrid" to 75
>     set the dgColumnAlignment[tColumnName]  of grp "rwMatrixObj_DataGrid" to "right"
>     set the dgColumnSortType[tColumnName]   of grp "rwMatrixObj_DataGrid" to "numeric"
>     set the dgColumnSortDirection[tColumnName] of grp "rwMatrixObj_DataGrid" to "descending"
>     set the dgColumnIsEditable[tColumnName] of grp "rwMatrixObj_DataGrid" to false
>   end repeat
> 
> The first time this executes it takes just under 3 minutes for this size of data (254 columns). However, the second and each successive time in the same session it takes just under 30 minutes!
> 
> Any idea why it would take so long?
> 
> Thoughts on how to speed it up?
> 
> I realize that I could use: 'set the dgProp["column widths"] of grp <DG> to <returnDelimitedListOfWidths>' as a single set action vs a loop where I am using 'set the dgColumnWidth[tColumnName] of grp <DG> to <singleWidth>'.
> 
> However, there are only Datagid properties so set attributes for ALL columns for alignments, visibility, widths, and labels. Therefore, I have to use a loop anyway to set the tooltip, sorttype, sortdirection, end editability
> 
> The column names (in the variable tColumnNames) are file names. Some are long (longest is 113 characters) and some contain assorted punctuation. I wonder is the column NAMES should be somehting plain ASCII and short and the column LABELS contain the file names?
> 
> This is all in LiveCode 9.5.1 on Windows. Timing is approximately the same in a Standalone or the IDE.
> 
> Anyway, if anyone has a good idea of what is taking this 30 minutes, ideas would be very welcome!
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From zryip.theslug at gmail.com  Wed May  6 07:58:08 2020
From: zryip.theslug at gmail.com (zryip theSlug)
Date: Wed, 6 May 2020 13:58:08 +0200
Subject: I need some DataGrid performance help
In-Reply-To: <3F2E59E8-94E9-4F08-BAC7-633015E34B80@pidigital.co.uk>
References: <77f6116a-163c-52f0-6582-d84879149a32@researchware.com>
 <3F2E59E8-94E9-4F08-BAC7-633015E34B80@pidigital.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CANbzFDq5Khxsa4RVda=-cvsZ0MN0Fz8qYqf1+RS1Y4gOi5+C=w@mail.gmail.com>

Paul,

After each call to a column property such as dgColumnWidth, the datagrid is
resized (header, column, rectangles, etc)

Instead of having them in the loop, prepare the column size, columns label,
etc and uses the table properties existing for setting all the values at
once. In this case the refresh of the datagrid is internally made only one
time.

Have a look in the datagrid properties documentation
http://lessons.livecode.com/m/datagrid/l/7343-data-grid-properties

for the table properties:
- column alignments
- column visibility
- column widths
- column labels

This is the only properties for table, because they have an impact in how
the datagrid is refreshed. The editable or the sort type of a column has
none. So even if you have a need of a loop, you can optimize it by removing
the tables properties.

An example for setting the widths of 3 columns at once

*set* the dgProp["column widths"] of *group* "DataGrid 1" to "100,200,300"


About column names. Internally they are used as keys for the dgData array.
Prefer shorter name without punctuation for column names and keep them only
for labels.


Best Regards,

On Wed, May 6, 2020 at 12:56 PM Pi Digital via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi Paul
>
> What handler do you have this code? From what you are saying it seems it?s
> deploying this formatting script every time it redraws which itself is very
> inefficient and unnecessary. It should only have to deal with the data
> itself ideally.
>
> Sean Cole
> Pi Digital Productions Ltd
>
>
> eMail Ts & Cs
>
>
> > On 5 May 2020, at 21:38, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > ?I have a datagid operation that should be fast that is taking a long
> time and I don't understand why.
> >
> > I use a datagrid to display a table of data as part of an analysis. The
> columns are file names and the rows are selected phrases found in those
> files. The first column is the list of phrases (162 in this example). The
> remaining columns are all the file name (254 in this example). So each cell
> (2 to 254) represents a count of the number of times the phrase (in column
> 1 of the row) was found the the file that column represents.
> >
> > I have the following code:
> >
> >   set the dgColumnWidth[tRowColumnName]      of grp
> "rwMatrixObj_DataGrid" to 200
> >   set the dgColumnAlignment[tRowColumnName]  of grp
> "rwMatrixObj_DataGrid" to "left"
> >   set the dgColumnSortType[tRowColumnName]   of grp
> "rwMatrixObj_DataGrid" to "text"
> >   set the dgColumnIsEditable[tRowColumnName] of grp
> "rwMatrixObj_DataGrid" to false
> >   repeat with i=2 to the number of lines in tColumnNames
> >     put line i of tColumnNames into tColumnName
> >     set the dgColumnTooltip[tColumnName]    of grp
> "rwMatrixObj_DataGrid" to tColumnName
> >     set the dgColumnWidth[tColumnName]      of grp
> "rwMatrixObj_DataGrid" to 75
> >     set the dgColumnAlignment[tColumnName]  of grp
> "rwMatrixObj_DataGrid" to "right"
> >     set the dgColumnSortType[tColumnName]   of grp
> "rwMatrixObj_DataGrid" to "numeric"
> >     set the dgColumnSortDirection[tColumnName] of grp
> "rwMatrixObj_DataGrid" to "descending"
> >     set the dgColumnIsEditable[tColumnName] of grp
> "rwMatrixObj_DataGrid" to false
> >   end repeat
> >
> > The first time this executes it takes just under 3 minutes for this size
> of data (254 columns). However, the second and each successive time in the
> same session it takes just under 30 minutes!
> >
> > Any idea why it would take so long?
> >
> > Thoughts on how to speed it up?
> >
> > I realize that I could use: 'set the dgProp["column widths"] of grp <DG>
> to <returnDelimitedListOfWidths>' as a single set action vs a loop where I
> am using 'set the dgColumnWidth[tColumnName] of grp <DG> to <singleWidth>'.
> >
> > However, there are only Datagid properties so set attributes for ALL
> columns for alignments, visibility, widths, and labels. Therefore, I have
> to use a loop anyway to set the tooltip, sorttype, sortdirection, end
> editability
> >
> > The column names (in the variable tColumnNames) are file names. Some are
> long (longest is 113 characters) and some contain assorted punctuation. I
> wonder is the column NAMES should be somehting plain ASCII and short and
> the column LABELS contain the file names?
> >
> > This is all in LiveCode 9.5.1 on Windows. Timing is approximately the
> same in a Standalone or the IDE.
> >
> > Anyway, if anyone has a good idea of what is taking this 30 minutes,
> ideas would be very welcome!
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
Zryip TheSlug
http://www.aslugontheroad.com


From paul at researchware.com  Wed May  6 08:35:59 2020
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Wed, 6 May 2020 08:35:59 -0400
Subject: I need some DataGrid performance help
In-Reply-To: <3F2E59E8-94E9-4F08-BAC7-633015E34B80@pidigital.co.uk>
References: <77f6116a-163c-52f0-6582-d84879149a32@researchware.com>
 <3F2E59E8-94E9-4F08-BAC7-633015E34B80@pidigital.co.uk>
Message-ID: <998a464e-624e-4c02-1a55-471c2d0b4ac6@researchware.com>

On 5/6/2020 6:55 AM, Pi Digital via use-livecode wrote:
> What handler do you have this code? From what you are saying it seems it?s deploying this formatting script every time it redraws which itself is very inefficient and unnecessary. It should only have to deal with the data itself ideally.

This code is called only when the data is changed such as columns added 
or removed or rows added or removed or both.



From paul at researchware.com  Wed May  6 08:41:50 2020
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Wed, 6 May 2020 08:41:50 -0400
Subject: I need some DataGrid performance help
In-Reply-To: <CANbzFDq5Khxsa4RVda=-cvsZ0MN0Fz8qYqf1+RS1Y4gOi5+C=w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <77f6116a-163c-52f0-6582-d84879149a32@researchware.com>
 <3F2E59E8-94E9-4F08-BAC7-633015E34B80@pidigital.co.uk>
 <CANbzFDq5Khxsa4RVda=-cvsZ0MN0Fz8qYqf1+RS1Y4gOi5+C=w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <46979cc7-1435-7945-4a6c-77e44b5ec922@researchware.com>

On 5/6/2020 7:58 AM, zryip theSlug via use-livecode wrote:
> After each call to a column property such as dgColumnWidth, the datagrid is
> resized (header, column, rectangles, etc)

This I did not know. Thank you.
>
> Instead of having them in the loop, prepare the column size, columns label,
> etc and uses the table properties existing for setting all the values at
> once. In this case the refresh of the datagrid is internally made only one
> time.

This I did know. As I said in my initial message:

I realize that I could use: 'set the dgProp["column widths"] of grp <DG> 
to <returnDelimitedListOfWidths>' as a single set action vs a loop where 
I am using 'set the dgColumnWidth[tColumnName] of grp <DG> to 
<singleWidth>'.

However, there are only Datagid properties so set attributes for ALL 
columns for alignments, visibility, widths, and labels. Therefore, I 
have to use a loop anyway to set the tooltip, sorttype, sortdirection, 
end editability


SO, while I can change the code to set the column ALIGNMENTS and WIDTHS 
all at once, I am still stuck setting the TOOLTIP, SORTTYPE, 
SORTDIRECTION, and EDITABILITY column by column in a repeat loop. So 
what do I do about setting the TOOLTIPs? There is NO 'set the 
dgProp["column tooltips"] of grp <DG> to <returnDelimitedListOfTips>'

Obviously, I can just TRY using LOCK MESSAGES (as Paul Hibbert 
suggested), but I am concerned that may cause more problems that it 
solves. Does anyone KNOW for sure?



From livfoss at mac.com  Wed May  6 09:09:16 2020
From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel)
Date: Wed, 6 May 2020 15:09:16 +0200
Subject: Has anyone experience of GPS on iPhone?
In-Reply-To: <17C6BF13-EC1C-4F05-9925-1FF8824C355E@earthlearningsolutions.org>
References: <AA99F22C-014C-4E9C-918A-4B38CFA9FDFE@mac.com>
 <17C6BF13-EC1C-4F05-9925-1FF8824C355E@earthlearningsolutions.org>
Message-ID: <074980D0-F69D-45AF-9891-5CEB351F3ADD@mac.com>

Bill, I think you are confirming that there is some mystery here. There are a lot of apps that seem to get location, and measures derived from location, almost completely right, whereas I am having trouble doing so with what must be the same essential data.

Take the problem of measuring the length of a country walk (I mean a walk not in a straight line). My basic approach is to process locationChanged messages, which unsurprisingly are triggered every time the GPS-measured location changes. So as not to get overwhelmed with very small, frequent changes, I only process a locationChanged message every 3 seconds - I know at least one other app that does this. As a person probably walks up to two metres a second, this fits in with what we know about accuracy, I think. The method is very simple. Every time we respond to a locationChanged message, we work out the straight line distance delta as in

  delta = (where we were 3 seconds ago) - (where we are now)

Ignoring the sign of the result, of course. This can be done by Haversine or similar algorithms for measuring short distances on the Earth?s surface - it?s essentially a Pythagoras calculation. Then we add up all the deltas and we know how far we walked on the trip with a fair if not complete degree of accuracy - easy! 

Only there are complications. Of course if any delta is zero, it doesn?t contribute to the trip; but what if it?s **nearly** zero - is it sensible to ignore very small deltas on the grounds that they are due to GPS wobble, or should we put them all in? 

Here?s what happened when I tried to do it: first I calculated the deltas to two decimal places, and I found that I was badly underestimating the distance walked; so then I pushed up the accuracy of the calculation to 5 decimal places. Sure enough, the measured route got longer in kilometers, until I noticed that if I simply put the phone on the grass and left it, so it wasn?t moving at all, in about 45 minutes I?d accumulated a completely spurious half a kilometre of walking! The small variations in the GPS signal (what I call the wobble) must have been responsible, since there was no other source of data but the GPS reading.

How then to avoid either under- or over-estimating the trip distance? Plenty of apps have done it but I just can?t see how, although I keep tinkering with the parameters. Of course I can never forget that my scripting might just be plain wrong, but so far my incremental method hasn?t worked sufficiently well, in the sense that if run the app and choose to walk in an exact straight line, I can compare a single measure of distance from the starting point with my integral approach. So far the result is not even close. As you say, intensive Internet searches are called for.

I wish all this were easier.

Graham

> On 5 May 2020, at 15:58, Prothero-ELS via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Graham,
> This makes me wonder how the Google and Apple Maps get their accuracy. When driving or walking, trying to figure out how to get to an address, it shows me walking along a street, certainly more accurate than 20meters. Yet, when I?m wondering where my wife is, and load up ?Find My iphone?, the location does jump around (easily 20 meters) for awhile, then seems to settle down. Hmm... In the olden days, NASA used to add error into publicly available gps readings, for security reasons. But now errors are not added and geo scientists are measuring very small fault motion with gps, but it?s comparing relative motion between two stations so wouldn?t apply in your case. I think some serious internet searching may be in order.
> 
> You must have tried Google Maps with satellite view, to see where it puts you relative to your house. You might be interested in this demo of getting google maps from Livecode.
> 
> http://earthlearningsolutions.org/google-static-maps-demo/
> 
> I  made a basic version of this and a hermann (hh), who helped me figure out the boundary coordinate calculation, added to it. I think it?s also in the livecode repository. It?s a couple of years old, so .... 
> 
> Best,
> Bill
> 
> William Prothero
> https://earthlearningsolutions.org
> 
>> On May 5, 2020, at 2:30 AM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> ?Thanks Bill for your two messages. I see from the link you gave that the LC system is (as expected) simply a wrapper for the iOS API, and indeed the term ?horizontal accuracy? is actually used internally in iOS. So it?s unlikely that LC itself is adding to my problems.
>> 
>> I don?t have access to an entirely different GPS system - all mine are on iPhones and I?m in lockdown. Google Earth reckons my reference point is at 43.276693, 2.160029. (The curious can see where I live).
>> 
>> Here is a little test done by simply sitting on a bench in my garden - as far as possible, this is what Google Earth is looking at.
>> 
>> Another app - ?MyAltitude? on my phone. Location 43.2766, 2.1601
>> 
>> Built-in ?Compass? app. Location 43.2766, 2.1600
>> 
>> My app - successive calls to mobileCurrentLocation a few seconds apart differ only beyond the fourth decimal place, a typical one is 43.276732 (so 43.277), 2.160163 (so 2.1602). During this set of about 20 measurements, horizontal accuracy varied from a minimum of 5 to a maximum of 23, tending to settle down to the lower end - but on other days I?ve seen much higher maxima, certainly above 60 and very occasionally a lot more.
>> 
>> So the readings agree, at least to three decimal places. Presumably the accuracy is supposed to tell me the amount of wobble to expect, although it?s measured in metres, whereas longitude and latitude are not so straightforward, since the grid covers a spherical earth. Where I live (England and the South of France), the North-South distance of a second of arc (or .000278 in decimal measurement) is about 20 metres, which is perhaps acceptable in short journeys such as walks, so I need to take account of say four or five decimal places if I?m going to hope for reasonable accuracy. This certainly looks feasible - my only real problem therefore is the wild variation in horizontal accuracy that I?m seeing.
>> 
>> All this makes me think that I should not have a target accuracy, since I may never hit the target and my user will be waiting forever to start his or her trip. I am therefore about to modify the app so it only looks for consistency - as soon as the horizontal accuracy settles down to a value without say more than five percent of variation, I will allow the trip to start. Seems weird but it?s the best I can do. Without access to anyone else?s coding for an iOS app, I can?t see a way to improve on that strategy. Obviously I will now run tests to see how my app compared with others that measure on-the-ground trip distance, particularly for short distances. 
>> 
>> In case anyone else thinks this is interesting (!), I?ll report back.
>> 
>> Graham
>> 
>>> On 4 May 2020, at 16:02, Prothero-ELS via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Graham,
>>> I would want to be verifying the coordinates with another gps device. I?d also check it against apps that give lat/Lon. 
>>> 
>>> Bill
>>> 
>>> William Prothero
>>> https://earthlearningsolutions.org
>>> 
>>>>> On May 4, 2020, at 5:07 AM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> ?I?m using GPS on iPhone using the various commands and functions available in LC. Most of this works, but I am having difficulty with the quantity ?horizontal accuracy?. This can be queried via an array which is returned when mobileCurrentLocation() is executed. 
>>>> 
>>>> Looking at other iOS apps that use GPS and allow one to examine their data, I find that in my part of the world, accuracy for them is of the order of 5 metres: but when I query it using LC I get much higher numbers, indeed some of them look like nonsense, being hundreds of metres!
>>>> 
>>>> I am aware that it takes time for a GPS signal to settle down after mobileStartTrackingSensor ?location? has been called, but even if I script the examination of accuracy to wait for it to settle down (I look for a run of similar or identical readings against a ?reasonable? criterion, such as 5 metres), it still sometimes settles on very large numbers comparatively speaking, for example it might stabilise at 65 metres. With that level of inaccuracy any cumulative use, as in working out the number of kilometres in a trip, would not be reliable.
>>>> 
>>>> I wonder if my expectation is wrong, or if there is something different about LC?s encapsulation of these iOS outputs, or if there is some other explanation.
>>>> 
>>>> In the short term, I?m simply going to have to relax my search for a reasonable accuracy of the order of 5 metres, and just go for the first run of stable readings. But I would love to hear any further insight from anyone who?s already tried it.
>>>> 
>>>> Graham
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> _______________________________________________
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> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
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From prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org  Wed May  6 10:21:24 2020
From: prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org (Prothero-ELS)
Date: Wed, 6 May 2020 07:21:24 -0700
Subject: Has anyone experience of GPS on iPhone?
In-Reply-To: <074980D0-F69D-45AF-9891-5CEB351F3ADD@mac.com>
References: <074980D0-F69D-45AF-9891-5CEB351F3ADD@mac.com>
Message-ID: <32807549-80A3-4EF0-9613-0A65161E1ECD@earthlearningsolutions.org>

Graham,
You have probably done this, but maybe not, so...
I would not process each location changed value as a distance moved. I would use them to average a new location, and use that location, after averaging, to calculate the distance moved. Also, location changed messages may not come at equal time intervals, so bad values may induce bias in an average, and that could be be source of spurious distances.

So, the first calculation would be to get a good location. Then that location would be used to calculate a distance moved. You could try to calculate the standard deviation of the location average to try to get an estimate of quality and possibly reject bad ones. Also, if location changed messages come in unequal intervals, and you include a burst of bad values in your average, it will bias the average. You might want to simply query the gps location at equal time intervals for your average location calculation.

I haven?t tried to use the iPhone gps to do these calcs, so I?m just thinking off the ?top? of my head. It is an interesting problem, though, so please keep me informed when you figure it out. 

Have fun! It?s science!

Best,
Bill



William Prothero
https://earthlearningsolutions.org

> On May 6, 2020, at 6:10 AM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> ?Bill, I think you are confirming that there is some mystery here. There are a lot of apps that seem to get location, and measures derived from location, almost completely right, whereas I am having trouble doing so with what must be the same essential data.
> 
> Take the problem of measuring the length of a country walk (I mean a walk not in a straight line). My basic approach is to process locationChanged messages, which unsurprisingly are triggered every time the GPS-measured location changes. So as not to get overwhelmed with very small, frequent changes, I only process a locationChanged message every 3 seconds - I know at least one other app that does this. As a person probably walks up to two metres a second, this fits in with what we know about accuracy, I think. The method is very simple. Every time we respond to a locationChanged message, we work out the straight line distance delta as in
> 
>  delta = (where we were 3 seconds ago) - (where we are now)
> 
> Ignoring the sign of the result, of course. This can be done by Haversine or similar algorithms for measuring short distances on the Earth?s surface - it?s essentially a Pythagoras calculation. Then we add up all the deltas and we know how far we walked on the trip with a fair if not complete degree of accuracy - easy! 
> 
> Only there are complications. Of course if any delta is zero, it doesn?t contribute to the trip; but what if it?s **nearly** zero - is it sensible to ignore very small deltas on the grounds that they are due to GPS wobble, or should we put them all in? 
> 
> Here?s what happened when I tried to do it: first I calculated the deltas to two decimal places, and I found that I was badly underestimating the distance walked; so then I pushed up the accuracy of the calculation to 5 decimal places. Sure enough, the measured route got longer in kilometers, until I noticed that if I simply put the phone on the grass and left it, so it wasn?t moving at all, in about 45 minutes I?d accumulated a completely spurious half a kilometre of walking! The small variations in the GPS signal (what I call the wobble) must have been responsible, since there was no other source of data but the GPS reading.
> 
> How then to avoid either under- or over-estimating the trip distance? Plenty of apps have done it but I just can?t see how, although I keep tinkering with the parameters. Of course I can never forget that my scripting might just be plain wrong, but so far my incremental method hasn?t worked sufficiently well, in the sense that if run the app and choose to walk in an exact straight line, I can compare a single measure of distance from the starting point with my integral approach. So far the result is not even close. As you say, intensive Internet searches are called for.
> 
> I wish all this were easier.
> 
> Graham
> 
>> On 5 May 2020, at 15:58, Prothero-ELS via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Graham,
>> This makes me wonder how the Google and Apple Maps get their accuracy. When driving or walking, trying to figure out how to get to an address, it shows me walking along a street, certainly more accurate than 20meters. Yet, when I?m wondering where my wife is, and load up ?Find My iphone?, the location does jump around (easily 20 meters) for awhile, then seems to settle down. Hmm... In the olden days, NASA used to add error into publicly available gps readings, for security reasons. But now errors are not added and geo scientists are measuring very small fault motion with gps, but it?s comparing relative motion between two stations so wouldn?t apply in your case. I think some serious internet searching may be in order.
>> 
>> You must have tried Google Maps with satellite view, to see where it puts you relative to your house. You might be interested in this demo of getting google maps from Livecode.
>> 
>> http://earthlearningsolutions.org/google-static-maps-demo/
>> 
>> I  made a basic version of this and a hermann (hh), who helped me figure out the boundary coordinate calculation, added to it. I think it?s also in the livecode repository. It?s a couple of years old, so .... 
>> 
>> Best,
>> Bill
>> 
>> William Prothero
>> https://earthlearningsolutions.org
>> 
>>>> On May 5, 2020, at 2:30 AM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?Thanks Bill for your two messages. I see from the link you gave that the LC system is (as expected) simply a wrapper for the iOS API, and indeed the term ?horizontal accuracy? is actually used internally in iOS. So it?s unlikely that LC itself is adding to my problems.
>>> 
>>> I don?t have access to an entirely different GPS system - all mine are on iPhones and I?m in lockdown. Google Earth reckons my reference point is at 43.276693, 2.160029. (The curious can see where I live).
>>> 
>>> Here is a little test done by simply sitting on a bench in my garden - as far as possible, this is what Google Earth is looking at.
>>> 
>>> Another app - ?MyAltitude? on my phone. Location 43.2766, 2.1601
>>> 
>>> Built-in ?Compass? app. Location 43.2766, 2.1600
>>> 
>>> My app - successive calls to mobileCurrentLocation a few seconds apart differ only beyond the fourth decimal place, a typical one is 43.276732 (so 43.277), 2.160163 (so 2.1602). During this set of about 20 measurements, horizontal accuracy varied from a minimum of 5 to a maximum of 23, tending to settle down to the lower end - but on other days I?ve seen much higher maxima, certainly above 60 and very occasionally a lot more.
>>> 
>>> So the readings agree, at least to three decimal places. Presumably the accuracy is supposed to tell me the amount of wobble to expect, although it?s measured in metres, whereas longitude and latitude are not so straightforward, since the grid covers a spherical earth. Where I live (England and the South of France), the North-South distance of a second of arc (or .000278 in decimal measurement) is about 20 metres, which is perhaps acceptable in short journeys such as walks, so I need to take account of say four or five decimal places if I?m going to hope for reasonable accuracy. This certainly looks feasible - my only real problem therefore is the wild variation in horizontal accuracy that I?m seeing.
>>> 
>>> All this makes me think that I should not have a target accuracy, since I may never hit the target and my user will be waiting forever to start his or her trip. I am therefore about to modify the app so it only looks for consistency - as soon as the horizontal accuracy settles down to a value without say more than five percent of variation, I will allow the trip to start. Seems weird but it?s the best I can do. Without access to anyone else?s coding for an iOS app, I can?t see a way to improve on that strategy. Obviously I will now run tests to see how my app compared with others that measure on-the-ground trip distance, particularly for short distances. 
>>> 
>>> In case anyone else thinks this is interesting (!), I?ll report back.
>>> 
>>> Graham
>>> 
>>>> On 4 May 2020, at 16:02, Prothero-ELS via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Graham,
>>>> I would want to be verifying the coordinates with another gps device. I?d also check it against apps that give lat/Lon. 
>>>> 
>>>> Bill
>>>> 
>>>> William Prothero
>>>> https://earthlearningsolutions.org
>>>> 
>>>>>> On May 4, 2020, at 5:07 AM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> ?I?m using GPS on iPhone using the various commands and functions available in LC. Most of this works, but I am having difficulty with the quantity ?horizontal accuracy?. This can be queried via an array which is returned when mobileCurrentLocation() is executed. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Looking at other iOS apps that use GPS and allow one to examine their data, I find that in my part of the world, accuracy for them is of the order of 5 metres: but when I query it using LC I get much higher numbers, indeed some of them look like nonsense, being hundreds of metres!
>>>>> 
>>>>> I am aware that it takes time for a GPS signal to settle down after mobileStartTrackingSensor ?location? has been called, but even if I script the examination of accuracy to wait for it to settle down (I look for a run of similar or identical readings against a ?reasonable? criterion, such as 5 metres), it still sometimes settles on very large numbers comparatively speaking, for example it might stabilise at 65 metres. With that level of inaccuracy any cumulative use, as in working out the number of kilometres in a trip, would not be reliable.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I wonder if my expectation is wrong, or if there is something different about LC?s encapsulation of these iOS outputs, or if there is some other explanation.
>>>>> 
>>>>> In the short term, I?m simply going to have to relax my search for a reasonable accuracy of the order of 5 metres, and just go for the first run of stable readings. But I would love to hear any further insight from anyone who?s already tried it.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Graham
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From mark at livecode.com  Wed May  6 10:52:18 2020
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Wed, 06 May 2020 15:52:18 +0100
Subject: Has anyone experience of GPS on iPhone?
In-Reply-To: <074980D0-F69D-45AF-9891-5CEB351F3ADD@mac.com>
References: <AA99F22C-014C-4E9C-918A-4B38CFA9FDFE@mac.com>
 <17C6BF13-EC1C-4F05-9925-1FF8824C355E@earthlearningsolutions.org>
 <074980D0-F69D-45AF-9891-5CEB351F3ADD@mac.com>
Message-ID: <35086f0b35f5bd7cc997c51c6e68ca3d@livecode.com>

On 2020-05-06 14:09, Graham Samuel via use-livecode wrote:
> Bill, I think you are confirming that there is some mystery here.
> There are a lot of apps that seem to get location, and measures
> derived from location, almost completely right, whereas I am having
> trouble doing so with what must be the same essential data.
> 
> How then to avoid either under- or over-estimating the trip distance?
> Plenty of apps have done it but I just can?t see how, although I keep
> tinkering with the parameters. Of course I can never forget that my
> scripting might just be plain wrong, but so far my incremental method
> hasn?t worked sufficiently well, in the sense that if run the app and
> choose to walk in an exact straight line, I can compare a single
> measure of distance from the starting point with my integral approach.
> So far the result is not even close. As you say, intensive Internet
> searches are called for.

I'm pretty sure that the data you are getting is precisely what all 
other apps will get - we are just returning the location data as 
provided by CoreLocation. The difference will be the analysis which 
these apps are doing on the data to derive an accurate assessment of the 
route taken I'd imagine. Indeed, it could be they also take into account 
other senses (compass and accelerometer) to help - but I don't know that 
for sure.

There are two functions which might help you with your endeavour:

   mobileSetLocationHistoryLimit
   mobileGetLocationHistory()

The details are in the docs, but basically the engine can collect and 
keep a list of locations which you can collect periodically.

I suspect the way to think about this is not to think about it as an 
incremental thing at all as any outliers will completely destroy the 
accuracy. Instead imagine it as a 'curve-fitting' exercise (piece-wise 
linear approximation is probably sufficient!) - i.e. taking sets of 
(slightly) overlapping samples and derive a 'best-guess' path which fits 
the data.

It is likely that some cleaning of the data would be needed first to 
eliminate outliers also. e.g. You can compute speed needed to get 
between individual points, if any given point is outside of a reasonable 
range of 'current' speed with approximated acceleration/deceleration 
taken into account then it should be discarded.

Doing a google search for "deriving a approximate path from gps data" 
turns up quite a lot of literature on the subject, so this is definitely 
something which has/is studied in depth...

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps



From david.bovill at gmail.com  Wed May  6 11:23:58 2020
From: david.bovill at gmail.com (David Bovill)
Date: Wed, 6 May 2020 16:23:58 +0100
Subject: HTML Platform
In-Reply-To: <E0826342-E2CC-4024-8895-237E040C4E50@pidigital.co.uk>
References: <3fe9fa9a-7a93-a395-3e10-b47080adccf0@fourthworld.com>
 <E0826342-E2CC-4024-8895-237E040C4E50@pidigital.co.uk>
Message-ID: <de6d408d-ffe9-4e4a-95b0-44943bbac757@Spark>

WASM support is very important to Livecode future. It will address most of the problems of current HTML5 deployment, and I definitely intend to use it - for micro service deployment, and blockchain integration for instance.

It will doubtless be a commercial feature, which is also important for a Livecode feature but as soon as I can play in an equal footing as other high level languages - then I can build commercial solutions with project partners and universities. Until then I can only really prototype in Livecode.
On 6 May 2020, 11:28 +0100, Pi Digital via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
> Two words, Richard.
> IT Departments.
> Of the 150+clients my client has, 150+ of them would emphatically prefer a web based app than a desktop one. They don?t want stuff ?installed? or ?run? on their machines that haven?t been thoroughly tested before use. Each and every update. And they really don?t want to have to keep testing each and every update. Using Chrome/Edge-Chromium overcomes all of that.
>
> Having built his business over 10 yrs ago with zero coding experience and learning LC from scratch, to now, remaining his only coding platform/language, he wants a way to continue being able to contribute without having to learn a new language while still taking his maaassive app suite onto the web. Emscripten is (part-way to) a godsend.
>
> If only the basics worked as they had before chromium deprecated old event handler syntax. That?s the major crux of its current downfall. Otherwise it?s an incredibly powerful way of coding for the web.
>
> And mySQL from LC in the browser is tonnes faster than on the desktop - massively! Because they?re both on the same server. Even though the message path is LC>JS>(AJAX)>PHP>JS>LC!
>
> Sean
>
> > In my own mind I phrase that differently. Whether it's gentler or more stark is up to the reader, but for me it's more:
> >
> > ...it can't address the fundamental differences between desktop
> > and web architectures, and the limitations inherent in Emscripten.
> >
> > Emscripten is good for what it was designed to do. But look deeply at LC, consider what Emscripten is, and the more time you spend pondering it the clearer it becomes how difficult it is to put a desktop app's square peg into a browser hole.
> >
> > Putting an entire scripting engine and object model into a browser application that already has its own scripting engine and object model cannot achieve size, performance, and integration features as well as a web-native implementation.
> >
> > If you truly need a browser as your only deployment option, it's kinda hard to argue against going with the grain of the browser.
> >
> > But most apps that might make good candidates for LC's HTML export have characteristics that lend themselves very well to not doing HTML at all, instead using a one-time download of an LC standalone which then downloads and runs stack files (a practice that, in the absence of a more common label, I like to call "streaming apps").
> >
> > Fits most of the same uses cases, but provides a more focused user experience that integrates with the OS as only a native app can.
> >
> > Extra bonus points that they're cheap and easy to build in LC, fast cheaper to deliver sophisticated works than even web-native implementations.
> >
> > For the sorts of vertical audiences where LC's HTML would seem interesting, I believe simply streaming stacks in a standalone is the most underappreciated and underutilized opportunity in our community.
> >
> > MetaCard promoted the idea heavily with some nice example downloads, but in all these years only a few of us make streaming apps regularly.
> >
> > If you're waiting for LC's HTML to get good, let's discuss streaming apps for those where they might be a great solution. We really don't need to wait for anything to have the benefits of net-distributed apps. You can have it all today, with the LC you know and love already.
> >
> > --
> > Richard Gaskin
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From zryip.theslug at gmail.com  Wed May  6 11:57:10 2020
From: zryip.theslug at gmail.com (zryip theSlug)
Date: Wed, 6 May 2020 17:57:10 +0200
Subject: I need some DataGrid performance help
In-Reply-To: <46979cc7-1435-7945-4a6c-77e44b5ec922@researchware.com>
References: <77f6116a-163c-52f0-6582-d84879149a32@researchware.com>
 <3F2E59E8-94E9-4F08-BAC7-633015E34B80@pidigital.co.uk>
 <CANbzFDq5Khxsa4RVda=-cvsZ0MN0Fz8qYqf1+RS1Y4gOi5+C=w@mail.gmail.com>
 <46979cc7-1435-7945-4a6c-77e44b5ec922@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <CANbzFDrSEGuEqSt1ywbHUbpVoVKh+RTLgH8VkQpEM0maD38CVQ@mail.gmail.com>

Paul,

datagrids are using virtual properties, so you can't lock the messages.

tooltip, sorttype, and editability have only an effect if one interact with
the datagrid. I do not think this is your issue. Plus, I ran in a similar
problem when I updated DGH 2.5 with column color capabilities. One of my
problem was with column width refreshisment.

sortdirection will have importance only if the datagrid is sorted by one of
the column and if your datagrid data is not empty. In this case you can set
the sorted column to empy prior to create / refresh the columns.

A last advice: create the datagrid columns and then filled in them with the
data.


Best Regards,

On Wed, May 6, 2020 at 2:42 PM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> On 5/6/2020 7:58 AM, zryip theSlug via use-livecode wrote:
> > After each call to a column property such as dgColumnWidth, the datagrid
> is
> > resized (header, column, rectangles, etc)
>
> This I did not know. Thank you.
> >
> > Instead of having them in the loop, prepare the column size, columns
> label,
> > etc and uses the table properties existing for setting all the values at
> > once. In this case the refresh of the datagrid is internally made only
> one
> > time.
>
> This I did know. As I said in my initial message:
>
> I realize that I could use: 'set the dgProp["column widths"] of grp <DG>
> to <returnDelimitedListOfWidths>' as a single set action vs a loop where
> I am using 'set the dgColumnWidth[tColumnName] of grp <DG> to
> <singleWidth>'.
>
> However, there are only Datagid properties so set attributes for ALL
> columns for alignments, visibility, widths, and labels. Therefore, I
> have to use a loop anyway to set the tooltip, sorttype, sortdirection,
> end editability
>
>
> SO, while I can change the code to set the column ALIGNMENTS and WIDTHS
> all at once, I am still stuck setting the TOOLTIP, SORTTYPE,
> SORTDIRECTION, and EDITABILITY column by column in a repeat loop. So
> what do I do about setting the TOOLTIPs? There is NO 'set the
> dgProp["column tooltips"] of grp <DG> to <returnDelimitedListOfTips>'
>
> Obviously, I can just TRY using LOCK MESSAGES (as Paul Hibbert
> suggested), but I am concerned that may cause more problems that it
> solves. Does anyone KNOW for sure?
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
Zryip TheSlug
http://www.aslugontheroad.com


From prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org  Wed May  6 12:13:45 2020
From: prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org (Prothero-ELS)
Date: Wed, 6 May 2020 09:13:45 -0700
Subject: Has anyone experience of GPS on iPhone?
In-Reply-To: <35086f0b35f5bd7cc997c51c6e68ca3d@livecode.com>
References: <35086f0b35f5bd7cc997c51c6e68ca3d@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <88783086-FD04-4051-A363-E87BCBA4C977@earthlearningsolutions.org>

Graham,
Mark?s comments make sense. Your quality test where you set the phone down in a fixed location and look at the results seems good also. If it can?t pass that test, nothing else will work.
Best,
Bill

William Prothero
https://earthlearningsolutions.org

> On May 6, 2020, at 7:52 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> ?On 2020-05-06 14:09, Graham Samuel via use-livecode wrote:
>> Bill, I think you are confirming that there is some mystery here.
>> There are a lot of apps that seem to get location, and measures
>> derived from location, almost completely right, whereas I am having
>> trouble doing so with what must be the same essential data.
>> How then to avoid either under- or over-estimating the trip distance?
>> Plenty of apps have done it but I just can?t see how, although I keep
>> tinkering with the parameters. Of course I can never forget that my
>> scripting might just be plain wrong, but so far my incremental method
>> hasn?t worked sufficiently well, in the sense that if run the app and
>> choose to walk in an exact straight line, I can compare a single
>> measure of distance from the starting point with my integral approach.
>> So far the result is not even close. As you say, intensive Internet
>> searches are called for.
> 
> I'm pretty sure that the data you are getting is precisely what all other apps will get - we are just returning the location data as provided by CoreLocation. The difference will be the analysis which these apps are doing on the data to derive an accurate assessment of the route taken I'd imagine. Indeed, it could be they also take into account other senses (compass and accelerometer) to help - but I don't know that for sure.
> 
> There are two functions which might help you with your endeavour:
> 
>  mobileSetLocationHistoryLimit
>  mobileGetLocationHistory()
> 
> The details are in the docs, but basically the engine can collect and keep a list of locations which you can collect periodically.
> 
> I suspect the way to think about this is not to think about it as an incremental thing at all as any outliers will completely destroy the accuracy. Instead imagine it as a 'curve-fitting' exercise (piece-wise linear approximation is probably sufficient!) - i.e. taking sets of (slightly) overlapping samples and derive a 'best-guess' path which fits the data.
> 
> It is likely that some cleaning of the data would be needed first to eliminate outliers also. e.g. You can compute speed needed to get between individual points, if any given point is outside of a reasonable range of 'current' speed with approximated acceleration/deceleration taken into account then it should be discarded.
> 
> Doing a google search for "deriving a approximate path from gps data" turns up quite a lot of literature on the subject, so this is definitely something which has/is studied in depth...
> 
> Warmest Regards,
> 
> Mark.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From livfoss at mac.com  Wed May  6 12:24:16 2020
From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel)
Date: Wed, 6 May 2020 18:24:16 +0200
Subject: Has anyone experience of GPS on iPhone?
In-Reply-To: <35086f0b35f5bd7cc997c51c6e68ca3d@livecode.com>
References: <AA99F22C-014C-4E9C-918A-4B38CFA9FDFE@mac.com>
 <17C6BF13-EC1C-4F05-9925-1FF8824C355E@earthlearningsolutions.org>
 <074980D0-F69D-45AF-9891-5CEB351F3ADD@mac.com>
 <35086f0b35f5bd7cc997c51c6e68ca3d@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <35F6AD89-85FF-4B7C-BF96-5493B07FA3E8@mac.com>

Mark, thanks for that contribution. Looks like more maths is needed. I will follow up on your approach, as mine really only works if all GPS readings are nearly accurate. As I have seen accuracies (really inaccuracies!) as large as 65 metres even after a settling-down period, a few of those will certainly put the integral-style calculation way out.

Really for this part of my app I need to emulate the work done in dozens of trekking apps available in lots of countries. I have one sneaky idea, which is to approach the developers of one of my favourite apps, since I have had some contact with them on other matters, and just see if they might tell me their approach - I can easily show that I am not a competitor! But that?s not an approach I can rely on, of course!

I will keep plugging away even though the initial motivation for my app (local lockdown) is probably going away. Hard to give up now.

Thanks everyone for their input.

Graham

> On 6 May 2020, at 16:52, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> On 2020-05-06 14:09, Graham Samuel via use-livecode wrote:
>> Bill, I think you are confirming that there is some mystery here.
>> There are a lot of apps that seem to get location, and measures
>> derived from location, almost completely right, whereas I am having
>> trouble doing so with what must be the same essential data.
>> How then to avoid either under- or over-estimating the trip distance?
>> Plenty of apps have done it but I just can?t see how, although I keep
>> tinkering with the parameters. Of course I can never forget that my
>> scripting might just be plain wrong, but so far my incremental method
>> hasn?t worked sufficiently well, in the sense that if run the app and
>> choose to walk in an exact straight line, I can compare a single
>> measure of distance from the starting point with my integral approach.
>> So far the result is not even close. As you say, intensive Internet
>> searches are called for.
> 
> I'm pretty sure that the data you are getting is precisely what all other apps will get - we are just returning the location data as provided by CoreLocation. The difference will be the analysis which these apps are doing on the data to derive an accurate assessment of the route taken I'd imagine. Indeed, it could be they also take into account other senses (compass and accelerometer) to help - but I don't know that for sure.
> 
> There are two functions which might help you with your endeavour:
> 
>  mobileSetLocationHistoryLimit
>  mobileGetLocationHistory()
> 
> The details are in the docs, but basically the engine can collect and keep a list of locations which you can collect periodically.
> 
> I suspect the way to think about this is not to think about it as an incremental thing at all as any outliers will completely destroy the accuracy. Instead imagine it as a 'curve-fitting' exercise (piece-wise linear approximation is probably sufficient!) - i.e. taking sets of (slightly) overlapping samples and derive a 'best-guess' path which fits the data.
> 
> It is likely that some cleaning of the data would be needed first to eliminate outliers also. e.g. You can compute speed needed to get between individual points, if any given point is outside of a reasonable range of 'current' speed with approximated acceleration/deceleration taken into account then it should be discarded.
> 
> Doing a google search for "deriving a approximate path from gps data" turns up quite a lot of literature on the subject, so this is definitely something which has/is studied in depth...
> 
> Warmest Regards,
> 
> Mark.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed May  6 12:36:49 2020
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 6 May 2020 09:36:49 -0700
Subject: I need some DataGrid performance help
In-Reply-To: <CANbzFDrSEGuEqSt1ywbHUbpVoVKh+RTLgH8VkQpEM0maD38CVQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANbzFDrSEGuEqSt1ywbHUbpVoVKh+RTLgH8VkQpEM0maD38CVQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b0e7e8bf-2bb7-8cee-a8fe-18ba46997f20@fourthworld.com>

zryip theSlug wrote:

 > datagrids are using virtual properties, so you can't lock the
 > messages.

Reminds me: we have a request to do away with that,since it complicates 
a lot of otherwise-powerful-and-simple things we can do with custom 
controls.

A while back Mark Waddingham reviewed the situation and decided that 
getProp and setProp were indeed more rightly in the category of custom 
messages rather than system messages, and as such should ideally be 
immune to the effects of "lock messages".

Anyone on the team have an update on this?

https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=226

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed May  6 12:50:31 2020
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 6 May 2020 09:50:31 -0700
Subject: HTML Platform
In-Reply-To: <015901d6237e$c9c1a190$5d44e4b0$@me.com>
References: <015901d6237e$c9c1a190$5d44e4b0$@me.com>
Message-ID: <6cac30cf-b392-3134-d2f7-277017d2b07f@fourthworld.com>

Erik Beugelaar wrote:

 > It would be great if a lesson comes available how to create streaming
 > apps with LC.

Thank you for your interest.  I'll do that, but it'll have to wait until 
I finish some client projects first.

In the meantime, the beauty of this approach is its simplicity.  Like 
anything else it can be made complicated, but it boils down to:

1. Make a slim standalone that contains just a splash screen and
    only enough code to download a stack file from your server
    (or report a network error if it can't).  "Load URL" is a good
    choice for larger stacks because it lets you display a progress
    indicator asynchronously, but for smaller stack files simply
    "go stack <url>" will work just fine.

2. Put a stack file with the guts of your app on a server.

3. Run your standalone.

It gets even better when you use LC's built-in gZip compression to 
reduce download times.

And better still, you can also cache what you download to support 
offline modes where practical.  Using a small text file on the server 
containing the build number of the stack file there makes it quick and 
easy to check if a fresh copy of the stack file needs to be downloaded, 
otherwise it opens the cached copy.

The beauty of this is that it's neither new nor exotic.  We've been 
doing it since MetaCard first made a one-liner out of HTTP GET with 
libURL back in the '90s.

For a fairly simple example, see LiveNet (in the IDE, Development -> 
Plugins -> GoLiveNet).  That small plugin downloads a stack file that 
includes fields and other containers that are then populated with data 
it pulls from multiple sources, exemplifying both the ease of 
downloading stack files and (hopefully) serving as an inspiration for 
building mash-ups.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems



-----Original Message-----

Mark Wieder wrote:

On 5/5/20 4:47 PM, Trevor DeVore via use-livecode wrote:
  >> I don't use HTML deployment myself, but thought I would mention 
that  >>
there has been some emscripten activity in GitHub lately. Looks like  >>
WebAssembly (WASM) support is being added.
...
  >
  > Yeah, I saw the github posts come flying by, and that's a promising  >
feature, but it doesn't address the limitations and broken features of  >
the current html implementation.

In my own mind I phrase that differently.  Whether it's gentler or more
stark is up to the reader, but for me it's more:

    ...it can't address the fundamental differences between desktop
    and web architectures, and the limitations inherent in Emscripten.

Emscripten is good for what it was designed to do.  But look deeply at LC,
consider what Emscripten is, and the more time you spend pondering it the
clearer it becomes how difficult it is to put a desktop app's square peg
into a browser hole.

"Difficult" is maybe unfairly optimistic. And "impossible" never applies to
software. Perhaps "prohibitively expensive" is fair.


  > Also, it remains to be seen how much bloat this adds to deployed web
  > apps.

Putting an entire scripting engine and object model into a browser
application that already has its own scripting engine and object model
cannot achieve size, performance, and integration features as well as a
web-native implementation.

If you truly need a browser as your only deployment option, it's kinda
hard to argue against going with the grain of the browser.

But most apps that might make good candidates for LC's HTML export have
characteristics that lend themselves very well to not doing HTML at all,
instead using a one-time download of an LC standalone which then
downloads and runs stack files (a practice that, in the absence of a
more common label, I like to call "streaming apps").

Fits most of the same uses cases, but provides a more focused user
experience that integrates with the OS as only a native app can.

Extra bonus points that they're cheap and easy to build in LC, fast
cheaper to deliver sophisticated works than even web-native implementations.

For the sorts of vertical audiences where LC's HTML would seem
interesting, I believe simply streaming stacks in a standalone is the
most underappreciated and underutilized opportunity in our community.

MetaCard promoted the idea heavily with some nice example downloads, but
in all these years only a few of us make streaming apps regularly.

If you're waiting for LC's HTML to get good, let's discuss streaming
apps for those where they might be a great solution.  We really don't
need to wait for anything to have the benefits of net-distributed apps.
You can have it all today, with the LC you know and love already.

-- 
   Richard Gaskin
   Fourth World Systems




From ahsoftware at sonic.net  Wed May  6 13:28:31 2020
From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Wed, 6 May 2020 10:28:31 -0700
Subject: I need some DataGrid performance help
In-Reply-To: <998a464e-624e-4c02-1a55-471c2d0b4ac6@researchware.com>
References: <77f6116a-163c-52f0-6582-d84879149a32@researchware.com>
 <3F2E59E8-94E9-4F08-BAC7-633015E34B80@pidigital.co.uk>
 <998a464e-624e-4c02-1a55-471c2d0b4ac6@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <f51b7026-d25e-1ecf-8d8a-5bcba1073c59@sonic.net>

On 5/6/20 5:35 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:

> This code is called only when the data is changed such as columns added 
> or removed or rows added or removed or both.

What I do is set the data initially, then cache the existing setup in a 
local array. When something changes I can examine the array, make the 
necessary changes, and update only the changed data in the datagrid. 
This makes a huge difference in response time, especially when I'm 
storing thumbnail images in the datagrid and I really don't want to have 
to calculate thumbnails for each cell in the grid a second time.

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed May  6 13:40:07 2020
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 6 May 2020 10:40:07 -0700
Subject: HTML Platform
In-Reply-To: <E0826342-E2CC-4024-8895-237E040C4E50@pidigital.co.uk>
References: <E0826342-E2CC-4024-8895-237E040C4E50@pidigital.co.uk>
Message-ID: <6c0d32b2-5fc2-eebb-644d-b514eae85831@fourthworld.com>

Pi Digital wrote:

 > Richard wrote:
 >> But most apps that might make good candidates for LC's HTML export
 >> have characteristics that lend themselves very well to not doing HTML
 >> at all, instead using a one-time download of an LC standalone which
 >> then downloads and runs stack files (a practice that, in the absence
 >> of a more common label, I like to call "streaming apps").
 >
 >
 > Two words, Richard.
 > IT Departments.
 > Of the 150+clients my client has, 150+ of them would emphatically
 > prefer a web based app than a desktop one. They don?t want stuff
 > ?installed? or ?run? on their machines that haven?t been thoroughly
 > tested before use. Each and every update. And they really don?t want
 > to have to keep testing each and every update. Using Chrome/Edge-
 > Chromium overcomes all of that.

I hear you loud and clear on that, Sean. I've run into that myself 
(humorous anecdote below).

In the subset of cases where IT is absolutely forcing the entire 
enterprise to ditch OS-native apps in favor of browser apps, there's 
little you can do to stop that.

And where the limitations inherent in any Emscripten-based solution pose 
no impediment to functionality, why not?  You'll still need to do 
significant rework of the stack to meet user expectations (e.g. more 
than half of all net traffic is on mobile devices so responsive design 
has become a common expectation for web apps), but where Emscripten does 
what you need by all means use it.

There is no one-size-fits-all for any of the work each of us does.  We 
evaluate the needs of our audience and make our deployment choices 
accordingly.


But the advent of the web hasn't killed OS-native apps.  The Mac app 
store is filled with them, and they remain a mainstay throughout 
organizations big and small.

Indeed, even the rise of the cloud hasn't killed off OS-native apps, but 
simply validated the "streaming app" model with the popularity of 
net-savvy apps like Adobe's Create Suite, Microsoft's Office 365, and 
Apple's iTunes.

An OS-native app allows a level of integration with common OS services 
and workflows difficult or impossible to achieve in the confines of a 
browser window.

Extra bonus points that it's also often a better overall user 
experience, and far cheaper to build and maintain in the LC we know and 
love.



 > And mySQL from LC in the browser is tonnes faster than on the desktop
 > - massively! Because they?re both on the same server. Even though the
 > message path is LC>JS>(AJAX)>PHP>JS>LC!

I suspect there's something going on there that can be remedied.  As you 
noted, compiled object code should be faster than interpreted 
JavaScript.  In every other respect the calls should be the same, so 
throughput should be faster in the OS-native implementation.  If it's 
not let's review that to bring it up to speed.



--
Aside: A Humorous Anecdote about working with Corporate IT

I was once a partner in a company that deployed a networked app which we 
delivered to institutions on CD-ROM.  As we told customer IT, we 
designed it for their convenience, so installation is simply copying a 
folder from the CD-ROM to a shared volume.  That's it.

IT at one facility didn't believe us.  They were up to their armpits in 
lesser tools than LiveCode, they were unable to conceive of a true 
standalone, accustomed to apps that spew DLLs all over the hard drive 
and then also require mods to their firewall.

They insisted we produce an Installation Guide.  We did.  It was one 
paragraph describing how to copy a folder from a CD to a shared drive, 
with the rest of the page being an illustration of doing that.  They 
were fully satisfied with that deliverable. :)


Years later we did migrate the consumer portion to a web-native 
implementation (using LC to generate it).  And since the original was 
built in LC, we easily moved a lot of the logic that had been in the 
client onto the server with minimal effort.  More on that in a moment.

We kept the authoring desktop-native, and expanded it into a streaming 
app where it was used by dozens of collaborating authors in offices 
around the world.

Authoring had originally been slated for migration into an existing 
Java-based system the org had built for similar products. The only 
reason for expanding our own authoring system to become multi-user was 
because the IT staff at an acquiring company was so busy with other 
tasks it became more cost-effective to build out ours than to wait for 
IT to catch up on the tasks the org relied on them for.  Great IT staff, 
just busy.  The authoring system written by a single LC dev eventually 
had more features than their similar system built in-house by an entire 
team of Java programmers, and for a much lower cost.


But on the consumer-facing web side, we have one more punchline:

One of the orgs that had insisted on a browser-based version did so for 
the usual reason, the one you noted, the concern for security.  As a 
regional hospital network (no, I'm absolutely not naming names) I could 
appreciate their need to take every opportunity to keep things as 
tightly contained as possible.

So you can imagine my surprise when they later came back to us insisting 
that we needed to "update" some features for compatibility with IE 6. 
This was about three years after none other than Microsoft themselves 
spent millions on a worldwide campaign to plead with their customers to 
stop using IE 6 and to upgrade to a supported version without that vast 
number of unaddressed vulnerabilities that remained in the older browser.

The rationale, their IT department explained, was that they had 
mission-critical web apps dependent on IE 6 which would not run in newer 
versions.

Think about it: Mission critical.  Dangerously-obsolete browser. 
Hospital network.

We did the extra work, but still didn't feel comfortable encouraging 
anyone to use a browser version its own vendor characterized as too 
dangerous to use.  So after we included the IE 6 workarounds we also 
added a disclaimer noting that we do not encourage use of EOL'd browsers.

As far as I know that hospital group continued to remain dependent on an 
increasingly-dangerous obsolete browser for at least another three years 
before they were finally required by top management to bring the legacy 
apps up to date.

I have a lot of respect for good IT staff.  I've done that job myself. 
But I've been in the biz long enough to feel comfortable noting that 
hiring practices for IT can be, we might politely say, spotty. :)

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com




From mark at livecode.com  Wed May  6 13:53:21 2020
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Wed, 06 May 2020 18:53:21 +0100
Subject: I need some DataGrid performance help
In-Reply-To: <b0e7e8bf-2bb7-8cee-a8fe-18ba46997f20@fourthworld.com>
References: <CANbzFDrSEGuEqSt1ywbHUbpVoVKh+RTLgH8VkQpEM0maD38CVQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <b0e7e8bf-2bb7-8cee-a8fe-18ba46997f20@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <e67634849093ac65e7702303acee1bf8@livecode.com>

On 2020-05-06 17:36, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
> A while back Mark Waddingham reviewed the situation and decided that
> getProp and setProp were indeed more rightly in the category of custom
> messages rather than system messages, and as such should ideally be
> immune to the effects of "lock messages".

If by a 'while back' you mean the thread from 2013 in the engine forum 
(http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=18048) then that's a 
long time ago! If I have commented more recently on this, then a 
reference to what I said would help :)

In reality if you want encapsulated custom controls which cannot be 
broken by user scripting around them, then it is not just property 
handlers which should be immune to lock messages, all engine messages to 
such a custom control should be immune.

Even discounting the 'life-cycle' events which behaviors on groups get 
(e.g. openControl, closeControl, resizeControl) as being similarly 
special (to property messages), custom controls can rely on reliable 
receipt of normal engine messages too.

e.g. You have a nice button custom control, it manages a hover state. It 
requires mouseEnter / mouseLeave events for that to function. If 
messages are locked then in certain cases, it might get into an 
inconsistent state because it does not get a matching pair.

Regardless of what I said 7 years ago, now (being older, and maybe a 
little wiser) I don't think I really see how changing lock messages (and 
breaking a lot of code as a result!) would get us any further towards 
better custom controls would it?

In reality, 'lock messages' is a sledge-hammer and like a sledge-hammer 
it can cause fallout if not wielded carefully.

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps



From mark at livecode.com  Wed May  6 13:57:38 2020
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Wed, 06 May 2020 18:57:38 +0100
Subject: HTML Platform
In-Reply-To: <6c0d32b2-5fc2-eebb-644d-b514eae85831@fourthworld.com>
References: <E0826342-E2CC-4024-8895-237E040C4E50@pidigital.co.uk>
 <6c0d32b2-5fc2-eebb-644d-b514eae85831@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <c993b5210786884cc3e64ccad8a08ba1@livecode.com>

On 2020-05-06 18:40, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
>> And mySQL from LC in the browser is tonnes faster than on the desktop
>> - massively! Because they?re both on the same server. Even though the
>> message path is LC>JS>(AJAX)>PHP>JS>LC!
> 
> I suspect there's something going on there that can be remedied.  As
> you noted, compiled object code should be faster than interpreted
> JavaScript.  In every other respect the calls should be the same, so
> throughput should be faster in the OS-native implementation.  If it's
> not let's review that to bring it up to speed.

This isn't true - any thing which involves communication to a remove 
server is dominated by transit time of the data - code on either end 
doing the marshalling will make little difference (regardless of how it 
is implemented).

The only thing I can think of is that the data being sent both ways is 
being compressed - as there are HTTP facilities to make that 
transparent. In contrast, the standard socket protocol of MySQL does not 
compress data so more is transferred. (This is assuming the comparison 
here is direct-socket-connnection-in-LC against 
HTTP-based-requests-from-HTML5-LC-in-browser).

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps



From paul at researchware.com  Wed May  6 14:01:50 2020
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Wed, 6 May 2020 14:01:50 -0400
Subject: I need some DataGrid performance help
In-Reply-To: <e67634849093ac65e7702303acee1bf8@livecode.com>
References: <CANbzFDrSEGuEqSt1ywbHUbpVoVKh+RTLgH8VkQpEM0maD38CVQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <b0e7e8bf-2bb7-8cee-a8fe-18ba46997f20@fourthworld.com>
 <e67634849093ac65e7702303acee1bf8@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <990c6afe-b1ac-63da-8e0b-f32a30f9ff00@researchware.com>

On 5/6/2020 1:53 PM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote:
> In reality, 'lock messages' is a sledge-hammer and like a 
> sledge-hammer it can cause fallout if not wielded carefully.
>

Slightly off topic, but I have run into time where I wish I could lock a 
specific message or set of messages. Something like:

Lock messages for "mouseUp,mouseDown"

Generally, like so many many things in LiveCode, you can code this with 
a flag in the handlers or a bunch of alternatives. However, I still find 
myself running into this now and then.



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed May  6 14:15:51 2020
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 6 May 2020 11:15:51 -0700
Subject: HTML Platform
In-Reply-To: <de6d408d-ffe9-4e4a-95b0-44943bbac757@Spark>
References: <de6d408d-ffe9-4e4a-95b0-44943bbac757@Spark>
Message-ID: <625094e1-e210-44d6-e8b1-00d5b9ad9dc6@fourthworld.com>

David Bovill wrote:

 > WASM support is very important to Livecode future. It will address
 > most of the problems of current HTML5 deployment

WASM will definitely benefit the two most visible issues, load time and 
performance.

Performance is an unqualified benefit, but with load time the benefit 
with web use is minimal, since the engine is re-downloaded nearly every 
time the user visits your site (unless of course yours is the only site 
they visit, so cache never purges).

While an OS-native app is downloaded once, the impact of download times 
on web apps is multiplied by frequency of use.

In compiled object code the LC engine ranges from about 17 MB (Win) to 
32 MB (Mac). Assuming the WASM export comes closer to that, it's still 
outside the short patience most end-users have acquired for public sites.

Can still be quite good for specialized audiences who understand up 
front the value of waiting for what you're delivering.  But where a 
priori buy-in is that deep I find those audiences often equally 
amendable to a one-time download of a desktop app.


That said, even with improvement on the most immediately-visible issues, 
  switching interpreters from JS to WASM can't address the less visible 
ones we discover only after we commit to that path. We're still stuffing 
a desktop object model and functionality into an HTML Canvas object 
inside of a browser application.

As I wrote in a recent forum thread on a related subject:

    And even if the size and speed impediments could be overcome
    affordably, then what? Given that the desktop and the browser
    are such fundamentally different platforms, the vision of
    exporting an existing desktop app to the web is impractical
    from a design standpoint alone. File I/O, windowing, menus,
    OS integration, layout flow, etc. - all vastly different, some
    non-existent on the web altogether given its vastly different
    role.
https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=120&t=25210&start=75#p190586

Emscripten-based export can be good for some use cases.  But I'd wager 
that the number of use cases where it's an ideal fit is the same or 
fewer than those where a net-savvy OS-native app would also be welcome.

For all the popularity of the web, native apps haven't gone away.  They 
are different animals.


 > and I definitely intend to use it - for micro service deployment, and
 > blockchain integration for instance.

I have a friend who's been nudging me to spend more time with 
blockchains. Please keep us posted.  I'll be interested to learn how 
much of the business logic is in the client and how much is on the 
server.  So many options there...


 > It will doubtless be a commercial feature

Oh dear I hope not. It's too easy to be attracted by a shiny nickel 
today at the cost of a dollar tomorrow.

LiveCode as a product has its fate bound by LiveCode as a *platform*. 
Unless we want to limit its audience to mostly retired HyperCard fans, 
we'll need to encourage a reconeptualization of the role of the 
Community Edition in platform-building.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed May  6 14:58:59 2020
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 6 May 2020 11:58:59 -0700
Subject: I need some DataGrid performance help
In-Reply-To: <e67634849093ac65e7702303acee1bf8@livecode.com>
References: <e67634849093ac65e7702303acee1bf8@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <363470b0-88ef-da6e-2623-9dcbc25d66ce@fourthworld.com>

Mark Waddingham wrote:

> On 2020-05-06 17:36, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
>> A while back Mark Waddingham reviewed the situation and decided that
>> getProp and setProp were indeed more rightly in the category of custom
>> messages rather than system messages, and as such should ideally be
>> immune to the effects of "lock messages".
> 
> If by a 'while back' you mean the thread from 2013 in the engine forum 
> (http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=18048) then that's a 
> long time ago! If I have commented more recently on this, then a 
> reference to what I said would help :)

I look forward to having the luxury of time to catalog your every word. 
:) In the meantime I work with what I can recall offhand, and trust 
you'll provide correction where needed.

Thanks for doing so here:

> In reality if you want encapsulated custom controls which cannot be 
> broken by user scripting around them, then it is not just property 
> handlers which should be immune to lock messages, all engine messages to 
> such a custom control should be immune.

"Cannot be broken by user scripting around them" is an enticingly high 
threshold, but one I've never considered.

In an imperfect universe in which all decisions involve trade-offs, my 
own modest desires would be satisfied well enough with being able to 
lock messages without having to consider side-effects on the DataGrid or 
other prop-driven scripts.

But keeping those implications in mind hasn't stopped me from delivering 
anything yet, so I'll continue to do well with what we have.


> Regardless of what I said 7 years ago, now (being older, and maybe a 
> little wiser) I don't think I really see how changing lock messages (and 
> breaking a lot of code as a result!) would get us any further towards 
> better custom controls would it?

Sure.  Maybe this BZ item be closed to put the concern to rest?
https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=226

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From mail at richard-hillen.de  Wed May  6 15:21:26 2020
From: mail at richard-hillen.de (Hillen Richard)
Date: Wed, 6 May 2020 21:21:26 +0200
Subject: Has anyone experience of GPS on iPhone?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4.1588770607.276139.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
References: <mailman.4.1588770607.276139.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <B496BECC-9B99-43C7-A770-8307091F9C97@richard-hillen.de>

Hello Graham,

20 years ago I started to use GPS-technique and found the same mysteries as you do now.

I learned that there a two main reason for the variation of location data:

Atmosperic density variations cause short term runtime variations and
Different relativ positions of satellites cause long term triangulation errors.

So I sampled at a constant location over some days the position data delivered from a gps-receiver taken every 10 seonds.

First I plotted the data and found that there were local shorttime-variations around a center, which was wandering slowly over the plot-area. The shorttime-fluctuations were most in a range of +-5m, the longtime-area showed - if I remember right - a radius from +-20m.

After that I started to calculate time-series of mean-values over different minute-intervalls and learned by plotting the result again, how to smooth my data best.

Nowadays you will of course get smaller short-time variations using the more intelligent gps-receiver of an iphone, but it probably gives you an impression about what is going on there.

Richard.



> 
> Message: 17
> Date: Wed, 6 May 2020 15:09:16 +0200
> From: Graham Samuel <livfoss at mac.com>
> To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Subject: Re: Has anyone experience of GPS on iPhone?
> Message-ID: <074980D0-F69D-45AF-9891-5CEB351F3ADD at mac.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=utf-8
> 
> Bill, I think you are confirming that there is some mystery here. There are a lot of apps that seem to get location, and measures derived from location, almost completely right, whereas I am having trouble doing so with what must be the same essential data.
> 
> Take the problem of measuring the length of a country walk (I mean a walk not in a straight line). My basic approach is to process locationChanged messages, which unsurprisingly are triggered every time the GPS-measured location changes. So as not to get overwhelmed with very small, frequent changes, I only process a locationChanged message every 3 seconds - I know at least one other app that does this. As a person probably walks up to two metres a second, this fits in with what we know about accuracy, I think. The method is very simple. Every time we respond to a locationChanged message, we work out the straight line distance delta as in
> 
>  delta = (where we were 3 seconds ago) - (where we are now)
> 
> Ignoring the sign of the result, of course. This can be done by Haversine or similar algorithms for measuring short distances on the Earth?s surface - it?s essentially a Pythagoras calculation. Then we add up all the deltas and we know how far we walked on the trip with a fair if not complete degree of accuracy - easy! 
> 
> Only there are complications. Of course if any delta is zero, it doesn?t contribute to the trip; but what if it?s **nearly** zero - is it sensible to ignore very small deltas on the grounds that they are due to GPS wobble, or should we put them all in? 
> 
> Here?s what happened when I tried to do it: first I calculated the deltas to two decimal places, and I found that I was badly underestimating the distance walked; so then I pushed up the accuracy of the calculation to 5 decimal places. Sure enough, the measured route got longer in kilometers, until I noticed that if I simply put the phone on the grass and left it, so it wasn?t moving at all, in about 45 minutes I?d accumulated a completely spurious half a kilometre of walking! The small variations in the GPS signal (what I call the wobble) must have been responsible, since there was no other source of data but the GPS reading.
> 
> How then to avoid either under- or over-estimating the trip distance? Plenty of apps have done it but I just can?t see how, although I keep tinkering with the parameters. Of course I can never forget that my scripting might just be plain wrong, but so far my incremental method hasn?t worked sufficiently well, in the sense that if run the app and choose to walk in an exact straight line, I can compare a single measure of distance from the starting point with my integral approach. So far the result is not even close. As you say, intensive Internet searches are called for.
> 
> I wish all this were easier.
> 
> Graham
> 




From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Wed May  6 20:07:24 2020
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Wed, 6 May 2020 19:07:24 -0500
Subject: Building a standalone warns about duplicate stacks
Message-ID: <282ff550-46c9-a681-3cd5-2d3d6a84fa26@hyperactivesw.com>

When building a standalone (for mobile in this case) I'm getting repeated messages about stacks 
already being in memory and asking me what to do with them. Since I have a lot of included 
stacks I need to make a decision a dozen times. This is different from all the "open*" 
messages, so that workaround won't help.

It doesn't happen when I use the Test button to install directly to my phone. I think this is 
new behavior. Bug?

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From phil at pdslabs.net  Thu May  7 03:17:42 2020
From: phil at pdslabs.net (Phil Davis)
Date: Thu, 7 May 2020 00:17:42 -0700
Subject: on-rev server upgrade-related problems
Message-ID: <1d69d234-673c-b404-5c58-8d8beeef8c37@pdslabs.net>

Has anyone had part or all of an on-rev server-based system stop working 
since the server upgrades a month or so ago?

My client has an on-rev.com-based training system. Training delivery is 
via web browser, and that part continues to work. But there are several 
desktop apps that provide training development, management and real-time 
monitoring. All of those apps became non-functional as soon as the 
upgrades were done, and remain so. I haven't been able to figure out how 
to restore functionality.

Robin in on-rev support has been very helpful, but we still don't have a 
solution. This is the bug report:

    https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22704

I wouldn't wish this on anyone, but in a way I'm hoping it isn't just us.

Thanks -
Phil Davis



From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Thu May  7 04:34:43 2020
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Thu, 7 May 2020 10:34:43 +0200
Subject: on-rev server upgrade-related problems
In-Reply-To: <1d69d234-673c-b404-5c58-8d8beeef8c37@pdslabs.net>
References: <1d69d234-673c-b404-5c58-8d8beeef8c37@pdslabs.net>
Message-ID: <04881568-1AED-418A-83E6-C83A0A416089@m-r-d.de>

Phil,

you are not mentioning how you do prepare the data which is posted to the server.

Which engine is processing your post? PHP or LC Server?

In your bug report you are writing "to a large file". How big is "large"?

You are posting data to the server to get back the large file, right? 

Is the file plain text or binary data?

If you are using LC Server scripts on your server to handle the posts...
Which version of LC Server was installed in your old hosting package? 
- If it was a lower version than the currently installed one , then i would do a custom install of that LC Server version that was installed on your old hosting package and try with that version.
  That could be done in some minutes.

Does the large file already exist  on the  server or is it created on the fly when the data is posted to the server?
- If the file already exists on the server i would create a little .php or .lc test script which just outputs/returns the file back when executed.
- If the file is created on the fly, then i would first create a large sample file on the server and would then try with some test scripts.
This would show if the server has problems with large files in general, but i doubt it has.


Is the file returned with http headers or just returned plain without any headers?


Matthias


-
Matthias Rebbe
Life Is Too Short For Boring Code

> Am 07.05.2020 um 09:17 schrieb Phil Davis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Has anyone had part or all of an on-rev server-based system stop working since the server upgrades a month or so ago?
> 
> My client has an on-rev.com-based training system. Training delivery is via web browser, and that part continues to work. But there are several desktop apps that provide training development, management and real-time monitoring. All of those apps became non-functional as soon as the upgrades were done, and remain so. I haven't been able to figure out how to restore functionality.
> 
> Robin in on-rev support has been very helpful, but we still don't have a solution. This is the bug report:
> 
>   https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22704
> 
> I wouldn't wish this on anyone, but in a way I'm hoping it isn't just us.
> 
> Thanks -
> Phil Davis
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From alex at tweedly.net  Thu May  7 04:52:53 2020
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Thu, 7 May 2020 09:52:53 +0100
Subject: on-rev server upgrade-related problems
In-Reply-To: <04881568-1AED-418A-83E6-C83A0A416089@m-r-d.de>
References: <1d69d234-673c-b404-5c58-8d8beeef8c37@pdslabs.net>
 <04881568-1AED-418A-83E6-C83A0A416089@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <f4eeb38a-43d3-c2dc-877b-5e6c58d0bb09@tweedly.net>

Hi Phil,

I absolutely agree with Matthias - the first thing to try (if you didn't 
already) is a custom-install of the older LC server version that you 
were using pre-upgrade.

However, it would also help to clarify the bug report somewhat. My 
reading of it is (almost) the opposite of Mathias's - i.e. I think 
you're posting a large file to the server.

If so, what happens to the large file - is it simply stored by the LC 
server, or does it need to be processed ?

If that is the case, can you write a tiny .lc server script that just 
receives and stores it ?

Can you add logging statements to the server script to verify if *it* 
sees the post arrive ?

If the tiny script works - could you (as a test and/or a temp 
workaround) store that file on the server (e.g. in /tmp) and return the 
tmp filename, and then have a second request that processes it ?

Alex.


On 07/05/2020 09:34, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote:
> Phil,
>
> you are not mentioning how you do prepare the data which is posted to the server.
>
> Which engine is processing your post? PHP or LC Server?
>
> In your bug report you are writing "to a large file". How big is "large"?
>
> You are posting data to the server to get back the large file, right?
>
> Is the file plain text or binary data?
>
> If you are using LC Server scripts on your server to handle the posts...
> Which version of LC Server was installed in your old hosting package?
> - If it was a lower version than the currently installed one , then i would do a custom install of that LC Server version that was installed on your old hosting package and try with that version.
>    That could be done in some minutes.
>
> Does the large file already exist  on the  server or is it created on the fly when the data is posted to the server?
> - If the file already exists on the server i would create a little .php or .lc test script which just outputs/returns the file back when executed.
> - If the file is created on the fly, then i would first create a large sample file on the server and would then try with some test scripts.
> This would show if the server has problems with large files in general, but i doubt it has.
>
>
> Is the file returned with http headers or just returned plain without any headers?
>
>
> Matthias
>
>
> -
> Matthias Rebbe
> Life Is Too Short For Boring Code
>
>> Am 07.05.2020 um 09:17 schrieb Phil Davis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>
>> Has anyone had part or all of an on-rev server-based system stop working since the server upgrades a month or so ago?
>>
>> My client has an on-rev.com-based training system. Training delivery is via web browser, and that part continues to work. But there are several desktop apps that provide training development, management and real-time monitoring. All of those apps became non-functional as soon as the upgrades were done, and remain so. I haven't been able to figure out how to restore functionality.
>>
>> Robin in on-rev support has been very helpful, but we still don't have a solution. This is the bug report:
>>
>>    https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22704
>>
>> I wouldn't wish this on anyone, but in a way I'm hoping it isn't just us.
>>
>> Thanks -
>> Phil Davis
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Thu May  7 05:55:22 2020
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Thu, 7 May 2020 11:55:22 +0200
Subject: on-rev server upgrade-related problems
In-Reply-To: <04881568-1AED-418A-83E6-C83A0A416089@m-r-d.de>
References: <1d69d234-673c-b404-5c58-8d8beeef8c37@pdslabs.net>
 <04881568-1AED-418A-83E6-C83A0A416089@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <72A8B198-1342-4876-BBC9-485814666E11@m-r-d.de>

What i forgot?

Do you use libURLFormData or libUrlMultiPartFormData to format the data in the standard format before it is posted?

Regards,

Matthias



-
Matthias Rebbe
Life Is Too Short For Boring Code

> Am 07.05.2020 um 10:34 schrieb matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Phil,
> 
> you are not mentioning how you do prepare the data which is posted to the server.
> 
> Which engine is processing your post? PHP or LC Server?
> 
> In your bug report you are writing "to a large file". How big is "large"?
> 
> You are posting data to the server to get back the large file, right? 
> 
> Is the file plain text or binary data?
> 
> If you are using LC Server scripts on your server to handle the posts...
> Which version of LC Server was installed in your old hosting package? 
> - If it was a lower version than the currently installed one , then i would do a custom install of that LC Server version that was installed on your old hosting package and try with that version.
>  That could be done in some minutes.
> 
> Does the large file already exist  on the  server or is it created on the fly when the data is posted to the server?
> - If the file already exists on the server i would create a little .php or .lc test script which just outputs/returns the file back when executed.
> - If the file is created on the fly, then i would first create a large sample file on the server and would then try with some test scripts.
> This would show if the server has problems with large files in general, but i doubt it has.
> 
> 
> Is the file returned with http headers or just returned plain without any headers?
> 
> 
> Matthias
> 
> 
> -
> Matthias Rebbe
> Life Is Too Short For Boring Code
> 
>> Am 07.05.2020 um 09:17 schrieb Phil Davis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> Has anyone had part or all of an on-rev server-based system stop working since the server upgrades a month or so ago?
>> 
>> My client has an on-rev.com-based training system. Training delivery is via web browser, and that part continues to work. But there are several desktop apps that provide training development, management and real-time monitoring. All of those apps became non-functional as soon as the upgrades were done, and remain so. I haven't been able to figure out how to restore functionality.
>> 
>> Robin in on-rev support has been very helpful, but we still don't have a solution. This is the bug report:
>> 
>>  https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22704
>> 
>> I wouldn't wish this on anyone, but in a way I'm hoping it isn't just us.
>> 
>> Thanks -
>> Phil Davis
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Thu May  7 09:53:49 2020
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Thu, 7 May 2020 15:53:49 +0200
Subject: on-rev server upgrade-related problems
In-Reply-To: <72A8B198-1342-4876-BBC9-485814666E11@m-r-d.de>
References: <1d69d234-673c-b404-5c58-8d8beeef8c37@pdslabs.net>
 <04881568-1AED-418A-83E6-C83A0A416089@m-r-d.de>
 <72A8B198-1342-4876-BBC9-485814666E11@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <010C1F41-60C6-4011-B582-97F562A00A39@m-r-d.de>

Ups, just noticed that i posted question. ;)

It was intended to be

What i forgot to ask....

-

Matthias Rebbe
Life Is Too Short For Boring Code

> Am 07.05.2020 um 11:55 schrieb matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> What i forgot?
> 
> Do you use libURLFormData or libUrlMultiPartFormData to format the data in the standard format before it is posted?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Matthias
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Matthias Rebbe
> Life Is Too Short For Boring Code
> 
>> Am 07.05.2020 um 10:34 schrieb matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> Phil,
>> 
>> you are not mentioning how you do prepare the data which is posted to the server.
>> 
>> Which engine is processing your post? PHP or LC Server?
>> 
>> In your bug report you are writing "to a large file". How big is "large"?
>> 
>> You are posting data to the server to get back the large file, right? 
>> 
>> Is the file plain text or binary data?
>> 
>> If you are using LC Server scripts on your server to handle the posts...
>> Which version of LC Server was installed in your old hosting package? 
>> - If it was a lower version than the currently installed one , then i would do a custom install of that LC Server version that was installed on your old hosting package and try with that version.
>> That could be done in some minutes.
>> 
>> Does the large file already exist  on the  server or is it created on the fly when the data is posted to the server?
>> - If the file already exists on the server i would create a little .php or .lc test script which just outputs/returns the file back when executed.
>> - If the file is created on the fly, then i would first create a large sample file on the server and would then try with some test scripts.
>> This would show if the server has problems with large files in general, but i doubt it has.
>> 
>> 
>> Is the file returned with http headers or just returned plain without any headers?
>> 
>> 
>> Matthias
>> 
>> 
>> -
>> Matthias Rebbe
>> Life Is Too Short For Boring Code
>> 
>>> Am 07.05.2020 um 09:17 schrieb Phil Davis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>> 
>>> Has anyone had part or all of an on-rev server-based system stop working since the server upgrades a month or so ago?
>>> 
>>> My client has an on-rev.com-based training system. Training delivery is via web browser, and that part continues to work. But there are several desktop apps that provide training development, management and real-time monitoring. All of those apps became non-functional as soon as the upgrades were done, and remain so. I haven't been able to figure out how to restore functionality.
>>> 
>>> Robin in on-rev support has been very helpful, but we still don't have a solution. This is the bug report:
>>> 
>>> https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22704
>>> 
>>> I wouldn't wish this on anyone, but in a way I'm hoping it isn't just us.
>>> 
>>> Thanks -
>>> Phil Davis
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Thu May  7 10:29:46 2020
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Thu, 7 May 2020 10:29:46 -0400
Subject: on-rev server upgrade-related problems
In-Reply-To: <1d69d234-673c-b404-5c58-8d8beeef8c37@pdslabs.net>
References: <1d69d234-673c-b404-5c58-8d8beeef8c37@pdslabs.net>
Message-ID: <001601d6247b$f839c040$e8ad40c0$@net>

Phil,

I had a problem with a GET request with a url encoded url in a parameter
after the upgrade. There are new security rules. I changed it to a POST and
it then worked. I am changing my apps to use a POST. Robin had lifted the
new security rule for me temporarily until all the apps are updated. One
other thing, the new MySQL server is now Maria DB. It is functionally the
same but I noticed if you have a column with no default value but is
required and the field is not in the SQL update then it throws an error.
MySQL did not do this.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net

-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf
Of Phil Davis via use-livecode
Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2020 3:18 AM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: Phil Davis
Subject: on-rev server upgrade-related problems

Has anyone had part or all of an on-rev server-based system stop working
since the server upgrades a month or so ago?

My client has an on-rev.com-based training system. Training delivery is via
web browser, and that part continues to work. But there are several desktop
apps that provide training development, management and real-time monitoring.
All of those apps became non-functional as soon as the upgrades were done,
and remain so. I haven't been able to figure out how to restore
functionality.

Robin in on-rev support has been very helpful, but we still don't have a
solution. This is the bug report:

    https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22704

I wouldn't wish this on anyone, but in a way I'm hoping it isn't just us.

Thanks -
Phil Davis

_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From devin_asay at byu.edu  Thu May  7 11:44:34 2020
From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay)
Date: Thu, 7 May 2020 15:44:34 +0000
Subject: Building a standalone warns about duplicate stacks
In-Reply-To: <282ff550-46c9-a681-3cd5-2d3d6a84fa26@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <282ff550-46c9-a681-3cd5-2d3d6a84fa26@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <67646368-A552-44DD-AC62-15F172F04AB1@byu.edu>

Jaque,

I?ve seen this when building standalones with stacks that are using library stacks, and the same library stackflles are included in the standalone build. Apparently the included stacks are opened during the build process, thus colliding with the library stacks already in memory. If this is the problem, I suppose a workaround would be to stop using the library stacks before running the build process.

Hope this helps.

Devin


> On May 6, 2020, at 6:07 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> When building a standalone (for mobile in this case) I'm getting repeated messages about stacks already being in memory and asking me what to do with them. Since I have a lot of included stacks I need to make a decision a dozen times. This is different from all the "open*" messages, so that workaround won't help.
> 
> It doesn't happen when I use the Test button to install directly to my phone. I think this is new behavior. Bug?
> 
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Devin Asay
Director
Office of Digital Humanities
Brigham Young University


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu May  7 12:25:21 2020
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 07 May 2020 11:25:21 -0500
Subject: Building a standalone warns about duplicate stacks
In-Reply-To: <67646368-A552-44DD-AC62-15F172F04AB1@byu.edu>
References: <282ff550-46c9-a681-3cd5-2d3d6a84fa26@hyperactivesw.com>
 <67646368-A552-44DD-AC62-15F172F04AB1@byu.edu>
Message-ID: <171eff4a580.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

Thanks, that explains it. I've incorporated Trevor's DataView and it has 
about 10 stacks in use as behaviors and libraries. To add to the fun, I'd 
forgotten that building for mobile no longer disables desktop platforms so 
I didn't think to disable them manually, and the standalone builder put up 
that annoying dialog 50 times.

Surely the warning shouldn't apply to the SB. It knows you just want your 
working files back.
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On May 7, 2020 10:46:55 AM Devin Asay via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Jaque,
>
> I?ve seen this when building standalones with stacks that are using library 
> stacks, and the same library stackflles are included in the standalone 
> build. Apparently the included stacks are opened during the build process, 
> thus colliding with the library stacks already in memory. If this is the 
> problem, I suppose a workaround would be to stop using the library stacks 
> before running the build process.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Devin
>
>
>> On May 6, 2020, at 6:07 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>> When building a standalone (for mobile in this case) I'm getting repeated 
>> messages about stacks already being in memory and asking me what to do with 
>> them. Since I have a lot of included stacks I need to make a decision a 
>> dozen times. This is different from all the "open*" messages, so that 
>> workaround won't help.
>>
>> It doesn't happen when I use the Test button to install directly to my 
>> phone. I think this is new behavior. Bug?
>>
>> --
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> Devin Asay
> Director
> Office of Digital Humanities
> Brigham Young University
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode






From phil at pdslabs.net  Thu May  7 14:35:05 2020
From: phil at pdslabs.net (Phil Davis)
Date: Thu, 7 May 2020 11:35:05 -0700
Subject: on-rev server upgrade-related problems
In-Reply-To: <001601d6247b$f839c040$e8ad40c0$@net>
References: <1d69d234-673c-b404-5c58-8d8beeef8c37@pdslabs.net>
 <001601d6247b$f839c040$e8ad40c0$@net>
Message-ID: <9d2bad48-fedb-5f31-a878-a105dab957f3@pdslabs.net>

Thank you all for so many great questions and responses! I don't have 
time to give a comprehensive response right now but (1) I'll whittle 
away at it and (2) all your comments renew my hope that a solution is 
out there waiting for me to find it.

Quick responses:

- I too would start by going back to LC 6.6.x on the server if I could, 
but apparently the recent server upgrades - new hardware running LC 
9.5.1 - are not backward compatible. That's what I'm told at least.

- The LC client app is POSTing a request to an LC CGI system on an 
on-rev server. The server system assembles a data packet (normally an 
encoded array), encrypts & encodes it and writes it back to the client. 
The packet can be any size up to maybe a megabyte or two, but that would 
be pretty big. Normally the packet size is no more than a few hundred KB.

Thanks again -
Phil


On 5/7/20 7:29 AM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote:
> Phil,
>
> I had a problem with a GET request with a url encoded url in a parameter
> after the upgrade. There are new security rules. I changed it to a POST and
> it then worked. I am changing my apps to use a POST. Robin had lifted the
> new security rule for me temporarily until all the apps are updated. One
> other thing, the new MySQL server is now Maria DB. It is functionally the
> same but I noticed if you have a column with no default value but is
> required and the field is not in the SQL update then it throws an error.
> MySQL did not do this.
>
> Ralph DiMola
> IT Director
> Evergreen Information Services
> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf
> Of Phil Davis via use-livecode
> Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2020 3:18 AM
> To: How to use LiveCode
> Cc: Phil Davis
> Subject: on-rev server upgrade-related problems
>
> Has anyone had part or all of an on-rev server-based system stop working
> since the server upgrades a month or so ago?
>
> My client has an on-rev.com-based training system. Training delivery is via
> web browser, and that part continues to work. But there are several desktop
> apps that provide training development, management and real-time monitoring.
> All of those apps became non-functional as soon as the upgrades were done,
> and remain so. I haven't been able to figure out how to restore
> functionality.
>
> Robin in on-rev support has been very helpful, but we still don't have a
> solution. This is the bug report:
>
>      https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22704
>
> I wouldn't wish this on anyone, but in a way I'm hoping it isn't just us.
>
> Thanks -
> Phil Davis
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

-- 
Phil Davis
503-307-4363




From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Thu May  7 15:20:04 2020
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Thu, 7 May 2020 15:20:04 -0400
Subject: on-rev server upgrade-related problems
In-Reply-To: <9d2bad48-fedb-5f31-a878-a105dab957f3@pdslabs.net>
References: <1d69d234-673c-b404-5c58-8d8beeef8c37@pdslabs.net>
 <001601d6247b$f839c040$e8ad40c0$@net>
 <9d2bad48-fedb-5f31-a878-a105dab957f3@pdslabs.net>
Message-ID: <003401d624a4$85e93ce0$91bbb6a0$@net>

I also think I remember script only stacks causing problems on LC Server.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net


-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf
Of Phil Davis via use-livecode
Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2020 2:35 PM
To: Ralph DiMola via use-livecode
Cc: Phil Davis
Subject: Re: on-rev server upgrade-related problems

Thank you all for so many great questions and responses! I don't have time
to give a comprehensive response right now but (1) I'll whittle away at it
and (2) all your comments renew my hope that a solution is out there waiting
for me to find it.

Quick responses:

- I too would start by going back to LC 6.6.x on the server if I could, but
apparently the recent server upgrades - new hardware running LC
9.5.1 - are not backward compatible. That's what I'm told at least.

- The LC client app is POSTing a request to an LC CGI system on an on-rev
server. The server system assembles a data packet (normally an encoded
array), encrypts & encodes it and writes it back to the client. 
The packet can be any size up to maybe a megabyte or two, but that would be
pretty big. Normally the packet size is no more than a few hundred KB.

Thanks again -
Phil


On 5/7/20 7:29 AM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote:
> Phil,
>
> I had a problem with a GET request with a url encoded url in a 
> parameter after the upgrade. There are new security rules. I changed 
> it to a POST and it then worked. I am changing my apps to use a POST. 
> Robin had lifted the new security rule for me temporarily until all 
> the apps are updated. One other thing, the new MySQL server is now 
> Maria DB. It is functionally the same but I noticed if you have a 
> column with no default value but is required and the field is not in the
SQL update then it throws an error.
> MySQL did not do this.
>
> Ralph DiMola
> IT Director
> Evergreen Information Services
> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On 
> Behalf Of Phil Davis via use-livecode
> Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2020 3:18 AM
> To: How to use LiveCode
> Cc: Phil Davis
> Subject: on-rev server upgrade-related problems
>
> Has anyone had part or all of an on-rev server-based system stop 
> working since the server upgrades a month or so ago?
>
> My client has an on-rev.com-based training system. Training delivery 
> is via web browser, and that part continues to work. But there are 
> several desktop apps that provide training development, management and
real-time monitoring.
> All of those apps became non-functional as soon as the upgrades were 
> done, and remain so. I haven't been able to figure out how to restore 
> functionality.
>
> Robin in on-rev support has been very helpful, but we still don't have 
> a solution. This is the bug report:
>
>      https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22704
>
> I wouldn't wish this on anyone, but in a way I'm hoping it isn't just us.
>
> Thanks -
> Phil Davis
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

--
Phil Davis
503-307-4363


_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From paul at researchware.com  Thu May  7 15:36:27 2020
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Thu, 7 May 2020 15:36:27 -0400
Subject: AW: Re: I need some DataGrid performance help
In-Reply-To: <77f6116a-163c-52f0-6582-d84879149a32@researchware.com>
References: <77f6116a-163c-52f0-6582-d84879149a32@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <a50c0d01-892c-6c8d-26f2-a7a6a1aa4b06@researchware.com>

Reduced to a consistent 1.5 to 2 minutes by revising the setting of 
datagrid column properties

the columns themselves, widths, and alignments set all at one. Tooltips, 
sort type and sort direction set in a loop in revised code.

I still do not understand why in the original code, when 1st set in a 
session it took 3 min and on subsequent updates in the same session, it 
took 30 minutes. The datagrid must be slow erasing certain properties 
for updating.

Thank you to everyone who responded with advice.




From curry at pair.com  Thu May  7 23:31:01 2020
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Thu, 7 May 2020 23:31:01 -0400
Subject: AW: Re: I need some DataGrid performance help
In-Reply-To: <a50c0d01-892c-6c8d-26f2-a7a6a1aa4b06@researchware.com>
References: <a50c0d01-892c-6c8d-26f2-a7a6a1aa4b06@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <1887529a-ea6e-d932-66ec-8fb4dbcfee12@pair.com>


(I know that Paul understands tradeoffs very well, so he already knows 
this, but for the benefit of others....)

Maybe some concepts are so simple, people never take them seriously:

- You reap what you sow. You get the cake you bake.

- Comparisons: 1 < 2

- Complexity often reduces efficiency.

- Traveling farther at the same speed takes longer.

- Habits guide behavior and affect outcomes.



Like it or not, these are (in general) true. Coding without such 
principles is a handicap.

So looking at Field versus DataGrid (a collection of fields and more):

- Which is simpler?

- Which would you expect to deliver faster performance in most cases?

- Do you understand the tradeoffs?

- Do you understand your own goals?



Unfortunately the DataGrid is not as well-coded as it could be. 2 
minutes, let alone 30, is ridiculous. That's one thing. Hopefully it 
will be improved.

But imagine if it WERE coded incredibly well, and optimized to the max 
already today. Do you still understand the tradeoffs versus your own goals?

Is 10 < 1, or is 10 > 1?

(In reality the comparison might be 100 to 1 or even 1,000 to 1. But the 
overall answer is still the same.)

Do you expect (in all probability, with reasonable assumptions and 
maintenance versus weeds) to gather the type of crop you've planted at 
the harvest, or do you expect something else - something unrelated - to 
magically grow in its place?

(Some people hate general principles, but they can be applied 
efficiently to a large number of specific cases. I like efficiency and 
good outcomes.)



That's the DataGrid itself, and the logic of choosing to use it. Now 
let's look at the USER code.

I couldn't help but notice these lines:

 > repeat with i=2 to the number of lines in tColumnNames
 > put line i of tColumnNames into tColumnName

That won't have a negative impact in this specific case, but why do it?

It's a bad coding habit that slows down a lot of code. In fact it's the 
stereotypical LC code speed bump syntax. Seeing this in a post about 
performance is counterintuitive, because it's not in the performance 
mindset.

Maybe it's valid to have a love for this particular syntax and use it 
wherever it doesn't cause harm, but it's a dangerous habit because 
habits guide individual actions. Easy to forget, likely to cause harm 
elsewhere. Plus it spreads to other coders. A bad meme! That's why I 
like to make optimized syntax my habit and my default. It pays.

 > Therefore, I have to use a loop anyway

True, but loops are generally bad (performance-wise) and the more you do 
inside them, the worse it gets. So if you have a chance to put anything 
OUTSIDE the loop, why shouldn't that be the FIRST instinct? Again, 
habits and outcomes.

 > I still do not understand why in the original code, when 1st set in
 > a session it took 3 min and on subsequent updates in the same session,
 > it took 30 minutes. The datagrid must be slow erasing certain
 > properties for updating.

I agree - either that or the content. Maybe file this as an LC bug!

But the nature of DataGrid (a collection of many fields, and much more!) 
is inherently complex, so there will always be relative limits on 
performance. More so the way it currently works. That's why I've never 
been a huge fan. How often should we use it? When we do, just remember: 
we get the cake we bake. Pros and cons included.

Therefore (considering you're still at 2 minutes) if at all possible, 
don't set these DG properties by code at runtime. Get the DG set up the 
way you want it, save it that way, fill the data at runtime. I know 
you'll get it working well as you always do!



Did someone suggest using a field? No, I didn't say that. Not in so many 
words. :) Take care!

(And BTW, a big thank-you to my late father Bill Kenworthy, who worked 
on military aircraft and high voltage electricity, and who taught me the 
principle of using simplicity for increased efficiency and performance 
at around the age of 7. I started coding at age 8. Still the most 
important professional lesson I've ever learned in a lifetime. I 
remember we were in the backyard when he explained it. Can't remember 
exactly what we were working on, but what a lesson. Thanks Dad!)

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/



From livfoss at mac.com  Fri May  8 05:27:26 2020
From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel)
Date: Fri, 8 May 2020 11:27:26 +0200
Subject: Has anyone experience of GPS on iPhone?
In-Reply-To: <35F6AD89-85FF-4B7C-BF96-5493B07FA3E8@mac.com>
References: <AA99F22C-014C-4E9C-918A-4B38CFA9FDFE@mac.com>
 <17C6BF13-EC1C-4F05-9925-1FF8824C355E@earthlearningsolutions.org>
 <074980D0-F69D-45AF-9891-5CEB351F3ADD@mac.com>
 <35086f0b35f5bd7cc997c51c6e68ca3d@livecode.com>
 <35F6AD89-85FF-4B7C-BF96-5493B07FA3E8@mac.com>
Message-ID: <2D8CE5ED-6C8F-433D-9357-5B20016CBE56@mac.com>

Just to conclude the tale: I have consulted the developers of one of my favourite apps that tells you how far you?ve walked or cycled (maybe long journeys as on sees on car satnavs are a different proposition, and I am not so interested in these for my own purposes). I am not revealing any secrets when I say that the lead guy reports that they have dedicated "tens of thousands of lines of code? to the issue. True, they cope with elevation, which I was planning to ignore, but nevertheless their ways of handling changes in accuracy include several things like reasonableness checks, so not even just simple curve-fitting.

In my particular circumstances and with my own limited skills I have simply decided to give up on that part of my app. A user can run another app simultaneously to mine to find out how far they?ve travelled - that?s easy. So, a wiser and a sadder man, I will try to finish what I started but with limited functionality.

Thanks to everyone who chipped in with advice, facts etc.

Graham

> On 6 May 2020, at 18:24, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Mark, thanks for that contribution. Looks like more maths is needed. I will follow up on your approach, as mine really only works if all GPS readings are nearly accurate. As I have seen accuracies (really inaccuracies!) as large as 65 metres even after a settling-down period, a few of those will certainly put the integral-style calculation way out.
> 
> Really for this part of my app I need to emulate the work done in dozens of trekking apps available in lots of countries. I have one sneaky idea, which is to approach the developers of one of my favourite apps, since I have had some contact with them on other matters, and just see if they might tell me their approach - I can easily show that I am not a competitor! But that?s not an approach I can rely on, of course!
> 
> I will keep plugging away even though the initial motivation for my app (local lockdown) is probably going away. Hard to give up now.
> 
> Thanks everyone for their input.
> 
> Graham
> 
>> On 6 May 2020, at 16:52, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> On 2020-05-06 14:09, Graham Samuel via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Bill, I think you are confirming that there is some mystery here.
>>> There are a lot of apps that seem to get location, and measures
>>> derived from location, almost completely right, whereas I am having
>>> trouble doing so with what must be the same essential data.
>>> How then to avoid either under- or over-estimating the trip distance?
>>> Plenty of apps have done it but I just can?t see how, although I keep
>>> tinkering with the parameters. Of course I can never forget that my
>>> scripting might just be plain wrong, but so far my incremental method
>>> hasn?t worked sufficiently well, in the sense that if run the app and
>>> choose to walk in an exact straight line, I can compare a single
>>> measure of distance from the starting point with my integral approach.
>>> So far the result is not even close. As you say, intensive Internet
>>> searches are called for.
>> 
>> I'm pretty sure that the data you are getting is precisely what all other apps will get - we are just returning the location data as provided by CoreLocation. The difference will be the analysis which these apps are doing on the data to derive an accurate assessment of the route taken I'd imagine. Indeed, it could be they also take into account other senses (compass and accelerometer) to help - but I don't know that for sure.
>> 
>> There are two functions which might help you with your endeavour:
>> 
>> mobileSetLocationHistoryLimit
>> mobileGetLocationHistory()
>> 
>> The details are in the docs, but basically the engine can collect and keep a list of locations which you can collect periodically.
>> 
>> I suspect the way to think about this is not to think about it as an incremental thing at all as any outliers will completely destroy the accuracy. Instead imagine it as a 'curve-fitting' exercise (piece-wise linear approximation is probably sufficient!) - i.e. taking sets of (slightly) overlapping samples and derive a 'best-guess' path which fits the data.
>> 
>> It is likely that some cleaning of the data would be needed first to eliminate outliers also. e.g. You can compute speed needed to get between individual points, if any given point is outside of a reasonable range of 'current' speed with approximated acceleration/deceleration taken into account then it should be discarded.
>> 
>> Doing a google search for "deriving a approximate path from gps data" turns up quite a lot of literature on the subject, so this is definitely something which has/is studied in depth...
>> 
>> Warmest Regards,
>> 
>> Mark.
>> 
>> -- 
>> Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
>> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From livfoss at mac.com  Fri May  8 05:27:56 2020
From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel)
Date: Fri, 8 May 2020 11:27:56 +0200
Subject: Has anyone experience of GPS on iPhone?
In-Reply-To: <B496BECC-9B99-43C7-A770-8307091F9C97@richard-hillen.de>
References: <mailman.4.1588770607.276139.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <B496BECC-9B99-43C7-A770-8307091F9C97@richard-hillen.de>
Message-ID: <74F34128-5349-40B0-B89C-78F57E54F357@mac.com>

Thanks Richard

Your info is interesting and scary!

Please see my generalised reply, just published.

Graham

> On 6 May 2020, at 21:21, Hillen Richard via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hello Graham,
> 
> 20 years ago I started to use GPS-technique and found the same mysteries as you do now.
> 
> I learned that there a two main reason for the variation of location data:
> 
> Atmosperic density variations cause short term runtime variations and
> Different relativ positions of satellites cause long term triangulation errors.
> 
> So I sampled at a constant location over some days the position data delivered from a gps-receiver taken every 10 seonds.
> 
> First I plotted the data and found that there were local shorttime-variations around a center, which was wandering slowly over the plot-area. The shorttime-fluctuations were most in a range of +-5m, the longtime-area showed - if I remember right - a radius from +-20m.
> 
> After that I started to calculate time-series of mean-values over different minute-intervalls and learned by plotting the result again, how to smooth my data best.
> 
> Nowadays you will of course get smaller short-time variations using the more intelligent gps-receiver of an iphone, but it probably gives you an impression about what is going on there.
> 
> Richard.
> 
> 
> 
>> 
>> Message: 17
>> Date: Wed, 6 May 2020 15:09:16 +0200
>> From: Graham Samuel <livfoss at mac.com>
>> To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
>> Subject: Re: Has anyone experience of GPS on iPhone?
>> Message-ID: <074980D0-F69D-45AF-9891-5CEB351F3ADD at mac.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=utf-8
>> 
>> Bill, I think you are confirming that there is some mystery here. There are a lot of apps that seem to get location, and measures derived from location, almost completely right, whereas I am having trouble doing so with what must be the same essential data.
>> 
>> Take the problem of measuring the length of a country walk (I mean a walk not in a straight line). My basic approach is to process locationChanged messages, which unsurprisingly are triggered every time the GPS-measured location changes. So as not to get overwhelmed with very small, frequent changes, I only process a locationChanged message every 3 seconds - I know at least one other app that does this. As a person probably walks up to two metres a second, this fits in with what we know about accuracy, I think. The method is very simple. Every time we respond to a locationChanged message, we work out the straight line distance delta as in
>> 
>> delta = (where we were 3 seconds ago) - (where we are now)
>> 
>> Ignoring the sign of the result, of course. This can be done by Haversine or similar algorithms for measuring short distances on the Earth?s surface - it?s essentially a Pythagoras calculation. Then we add up all the deltas and we know how far we walked on the trip with a fair if not complete degree of accuracy - easy! 
>> 
>> Only there are complications. Of course if any delta is zero, it doesn?t contribute to the trip; but what if it?s **nearly** zero - is it sensible to ignore very small deltas on the grounds that they are due to GPS wobble, or should we put them all in? 
>> 
>> Here?s what happened when I tried to do it: first I calculated the deltas to two decimal places, and I found that I was badly underestimating the distance walked; so then I pushed up the accuracy of the calculation to 5 decimal places. Sure enough, the measured route got longer in kilometers, until I noticed that if I simply put the phone on the grass and left it, so it wasn?t moving at all, in about 45 minutes I?d accumulated a completely spurious half a kilometre of walking! The small variations in the GPS signal (what I call the wobble) must have been responsible, since there was no other source of data but the GPS reading.
>> 
>> How then to avoid either under- or over-estimating the trip distance? Plenty of apps have done it but I just can?t see how, although I keep tinkering with the parameters. Of course I can never forget that my scripting might just be plain wrong, but so far my incremental method hasn?t worked sufficiently well, in the sense that if run the app and choose to walk in an exact straight line, I can compare a single measure of distance from the starting point with my integral approach. So far the result is not even close. As you say, intensive Internet searches are called for.
>> 
>> I wish all this were easier.
>> 
>> Graham
>> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Fri May  8 08:28:44 2020
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Fri, 8 May 2020 14:28:44 +0200
Subject: on-rev server upgrade-related problems
In-Reply-To: <9d2bad48-fedb-5f31-a878-a105dab957f3@pdslabs.net>
References: <1d69d234-673c-b404-5c58-8d8beeef8c37@pdslabs.net>
 <001601d6247b$f839c040$e8ad40c0$@net>
 <9d2bad48-fedb-5f31-a878-a105dab957f3@pdslabs.net>
Message-ID: <0AC30882-3A24-42F1-8976-EA4FE4E4B33D@m-r-d.de>

Phil,

i?ve answered already to the bug report, but maybe this is also of interest for the others.

As i have also accoun ton the same On-Revi  as you and did some test. 
I am sure it?s a tsNet timeout problem.

tsNET has several default timeouts. The defaults are 30, 0, 300000, 60000, 30, 1000

 The fifth one defines "the time period in seconds that is used to calculate whether or not the transfer has fallen below the low speed limit set by pLowSpeedLimit."  
It can be set either to 0 to disable the time out or to any other value.

In my first test my LC Server script returned just a 5MB file back to the client. That worked.

I then added a "wait 45 seconds"  to the script before outputting/returning 5MB file to the client. I got exactly the same error message than youor your  clients,

"tsneterr: (28) Operation too slow. Less than 1000 bytes/sec transferred the last 30 seconds"
This makes sense as because of the "wait 45 seconds" we exceeded the default time-out value of 30.


I then added the following line to the client script.

tsNetSetTimeouts 30, 0, 300000, 60000, 120, 1000 
With it i?ve changed the timeout to 120 seconds.

After adding that line, the 5 MB file was received again by the client w/o the tsNet error.

So setting the timeout either to a higher value or to 0 in the client script should solve it. I am not sure, but i assume setting it to 0 is not recommended.

Hope this helps.

Matthias

-
Matthias Rebbe
Life Is Too Short For Boring Code

> Am 07.05.2020 um 20:35 schrieb Phil Davis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Thank you all for so many great questions and responses! I don't have time to give a comprehensive response right now but (1) I'll whittle away at it and (2) all your comments renew my hope that a solution is out there waiting for me to find it.
> 
> Quick responses:
> 
> - I too would start by going back to LC 6.6.x on the server if I could, but apparently the recent server upgrades - new hardware running LC 9.5.1 - are not backward compatible. That's what I'm told at least.
> 
> - The LC client app is POSTing a request to an LC CGI system on an on-rev server. The server system assembles a data packet (normally an encoded array), encrypts & encodes it and writes it back to the client. The packet can be any size up to maybe a megabyte or two, but that would be pretty big. Normally the packet size is no more than a few hundred KB.
> 
> Thanks again -
> Phil
> 
> 
> On 5/7/20 7:29 AM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote:
>> Phil,
>> 
>> I had a problem with a GET request with a url encoded url in a parameter
>> after the upgrade. There are new security rules. I changed it to a POST and
>> it then worked. I am changing my apps to use a POST. Robin had lifted the
>> new security rule for me temporarily until all the apps are updated. One
>> other thing, the new MySQL server is now Maria DB. It is functionally the
>> same but I noticed if you have a column with no default value but is
>> required and the field is not in the SQL update then it throws an error.
>> MySQL did not do this.
>> 
>> Ralph DiMola
>> IT Director
>> Evergreen Information Services
>> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf
>> Of Phil Davis via use-livecode
>> Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2020 3:18 AM
>> To: How to use LiveCode
>> Cc: Phil Davis
>> Subject: on-rev server upgrade-related problems
>> 
>> Has anyone had part or all of an on-rev server-based system stop working
>> since the server upgrades a month or so ago?
>> 
>> My client has an on-rev.com-based training system. Training delivery is via
>> web browser, and that part continues to work. But there are several desktop
>> apps that provide training development, management and real-time monitoring.
>> All of those apps became non-functional as soon as the upgrades were done,
>> and remain so. I haven't been able to figure out how to restore
>> functionality.
>> 
>> Robin in on-rev support has been very helpful, but we still don't have a
>> solution. This is the bug report:
>> 
>>     https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22704
>> 
>> I wouldn't wish this on anyone, but in a way I'm hoping it isn't just us.
>> 
>> Thanks -
>> Phil Davis
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
>> preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> 
> -- 
> Phil Davis
> 503-307-4363
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From torsten.holmer at web.de  Fri May  8 13:12:33 2020
From: torsten.holmer at web.de (Torsten Holmer)
Date: Fri, 8 May 2020 19:12:33 +0200
Subject: OT: How to graph a specific data set?
In-Reply-To: <f5f4288a-119c-dd8d-af2f-2fd055b733e6@researchware.com>
References: <fded1387-b51d-7e5f-323d-54c0c60dd652@researchware.com>
 <f5f4288a-119c-dd8d-af2f-2fd055b733e6@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <F93EBAC0-46CE-47F9-B3D3-8EC586534B09@web.de>

Hi,

this looks to me as a graph and this is the way it should be visualized.

I have written a small Livecode stack which creates Graphviz files for different layouts. This are the results:

http://www.thinkworx.de/graphs/Graph-sfdp.png
http://www.thinkworx.de/graphs/Graph-neato.png
http://www.thinkworx.de/graphs/Graph-dot.png
http://www.thinkworx.de/graphs/Graph-circo.png

If you like, I can explain how to make these graphs.

Cheers,
Torsten


> Am 05.05.2020 um 16:52 schrieb Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> This is NOT a "How to do this in LiveCode" question.
> 
> I have a data set (below), produced by a LiveCode program and the data is exported to Excel.
> 
> I am trying to figure out:
> 
> 1) What the "best" style of graph to visualize this data is? I thought perhaps a "Bubble Chart" but  - in Excel at least - does not seem to work for this data.
> 
> 
> 2) After determining the "best" chart style is, what charting tool (if not Excel) can generate that style of chart for this data?
> 
> Any tips anyone may have would be very welcome.
> 
> The data set is below. This shows that "A" intersects with B once and C intersects with J 4 times (as example of how to read the data). I have replaced the actual labels (text strings for rows and columns) with the English alphabet for simplicity.
> 
> 
> 
> 	A 	B 	C 	D 	E 	F 	G 	H 	I 	J 	K 	L 	M 	N 	O 	P 	Q 	R 	S 	T 	U 	V 	W 	X Y 	Z
> A 	0 	1 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 0 	0 	0
> B 	
> 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0
> C 	
> 	
> 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	1 	0 	4 	1 	0 	2 	0 	0 	1 	1 	0 	0 	1 	0 	0 	1 	0 	1 	1
> D 	
> 	
> 	
> 	0 	0 	0 	1 	0 	0 	0 	1 	0 	0 	0 	1 	0 	0 	0 	1 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	1 	0
> E 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	0 	1 	0 	0 	0 	0 	1 	0 	1 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0
> F 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0
> G 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	1 	0
> H 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	1 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0
> I 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	0 	0 	0 	1 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0
> J 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	0 	1 	0 	1 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0
> K 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	0 	0 	1 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	1 	0 	0 	1 	1 	0 	0 	0
> L 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	0 	0 	0 	2 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0
> M 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0
> N 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0
> O 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	1 	0 	0 	0 	1 	0 	0 	0 	0 	1 	0 	0
> P 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	0 	0 	1 	0 	1 	0 	0 	0 	0 	1 	1
> Q 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0
> R 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0
> S 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0
> T 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	1 	1
> U 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0
> V 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0
> W 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	0 	1 	0 	0
> X 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	0 	0 	0
> Y 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	0 	1
> Z 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 	0
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From phil at pdslabs.net  Fri May  8 15:33:21 2020
From: phil at pdslabs.net (Phil Davis)
Date: Fri, 8 May 2020 12:33:21 -0700
Subject: on-rev server upgrade-related problems
In-Reply-To: <0AC30882-3A24-42F1-8976-EA4FE4E4B33D@m-r-d.de>
References: <1d69d234-673c-b404-5c58-8d8beeef8c37@pdslabs.net>
 <001601d6247b$f839c040$e8ad40c0$@net>
 <9d2bad48-fedb-5f31-a878-a105dab957f3@pdslabs.net>
 <0AC30882-3A24-42F1-8976-EA4FE4E4B33D@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <71e51175-9dbc-f6e1-5bd2-f3d6bcda0741@pdslabs.net>

Thanks so much for your interest in this bug, Matthias! I'm just getting 
back into it now, catching up on bug comments posted since yesterday.

Phil

On 5/8/20 5:28 AM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote:
> Phil,
>
> i?ve answered already to the bug report, but maybe this is also of interest for the others.
>
> As i have also accoun ton the same On-Revi  as you and did some test.
> I am sure it?s a tsNet timeout problem.
>
> tsNET has several default timeouts. The defaults are 30, 0, 300000, 60000, 30, 1000
>
>   The fifth one defines "the time period in seconds that is used to calculate whether or not the transfer has fallen below the low speed limit set by pLowSpeedLimit."
> It can be set either to 0 to disable the time out or to any other value.
>
> In my first test my LC Server script returned just a 5MB file back to the client. That worked.
>
> I then added a "wait 45 seconds"  to the script before outputting/returning 5MB file to the client. I got exactly the same error message than youor your  clients,
>
> "tsneterr: (28) Operation too slow. Less than 1000 bytes/sec transferred the last 30 seconds"
> This makes sense as because of the "wait 45 seconds" we exceeded the default time-out value of 30.
>
>
> I then added the following line to the client script.
>
> tsNetSetTimeouts 30, 0, 300000, 60000, 120, 1000
> With it i?ve changed the timeout to 120 seconds.
>
> After adding that line, the 5 MB file was received again by the client w/o the tsNet error.
>
> So setting the timeout either to a higher value or to 0 in the client script should solve it. I am not sure, but i assume setting it to 0 is not recommended.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Matthias
>
> -
> Matthias Rebbe
> Life Is Too Short For Boring Code
>
>> Am 07.05.2020 um 20:35 schrieb Phil Davis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>
>> Thank you all for so many great questions and responses! I don't have time to give a comprehensive response right now but (1) I'll whittle away at it and (2) all your comments renew my hope that a solution is out there waiting for me to find it.
>>
>> Quick responses:
>>
>> - I too would start by going back to LC 6.6.x on the server if I could, but apparently the recent server upgrades - new hardware running LC 9.5.1 - are not backward compatible. That's what I'm told at least.
>>
>> - The LC client app is POSTing a request to an LC CGI system on an on-rev server. The server system assembles a data packet (normally an encoded array), encrypts & encodes it and writes it back to the client. The packet can be any size up to maybe a megabyte or two, but that would be pretty big. Normally the packet size is no more than a few hundred KB.
>>
>> Thanks again -
>> Phil
>>
>>
>> On 5/7/20 7:29 AM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Phil,
>>>
>>> I had a problem with a GET request with a url encoded url in a parameter
>>> after the upgrade. There are new security rules. I changed it to a POST and
>>> it then worked. I am changing my apps to use a POST. Robin had lifted the
>>> new security rule for me temporarily until all the apps are updated. One
>>> other thing, the new MySQL server is now Maria DB. It is functionally the
>>> same but I noticed if you have a column with no default value but is
>>> required and the field is not in the SQL update then it throws an error.
>>> MySQL did not do this.
>>>
>>> Ralph DiMola
>>> IT Director
>>> Evergreen Information Services
>>> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf
>>> Of Phil Davis via use-livecode
>>> Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2020 3:18 AM
>>> To: How to use LiveCode
>>> Cc: Phil Davis
>>> Subject: on-rev server upgrade-related problems
>>>
>>> Has anyone had part or all of an on-rev server-based system stop working
>>> since the server upgrades a month or so ago?
>>>
>>> My client has an on-rev.com-based training system. Training delivery is via
>>> web browser, and that part continues to work. But there are several desktop
>>> apps that provide training development, management and real-time monitoring.
>>> All of those apps became non-functional as soon as the upgrades were done,
>>> and remain so. I haven't been able to figure out how to restore
>>> functionality.
>>>
>>> Robin in on-rev support has been very helpful, but we still don't have a
>>> solution. This is the bug report:
>>>
>>>      https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22704
>>>
>>> I wouldn't wish this on anyone, but in a way I'm hoping it isn't just us.
>>>
>>> Thanks -
>>> Phil Davis
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
>>> preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>
>> -- 
>> Phil Davis
>> 503-307-4363
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

-- 
Phil Davis
503-307-4363




From alex at tweedly.net  Fri May  8 16:39:25 2020
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Fri, 8 May 2020 21:39:25 +0100
Subject: on-rev server upgrade-related problems
In-Reply-To: <0AC30882-3A24-42F1-8976-EA4FE4E4B33D@m-r-d.de>
References: <1d69d234-673c-b404-5c58-8d8beeef8c37@pdslabs.net>
 <001601d6247b$f839c040$e8ad40c0$@net>
 <9d2bad48-fedb-5f31-a878-a105dab957f3@pdslabs.net>
 <0AC30882-3A24-42F1-8976-EA4FE4E4B33D@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <7af988c8-f8d8-fa8f-fa37-e6fc37f10467@tweedly.net>

While I'm glad the issue has been tracked down, we need to remember that 
what's really happened is that a work-around has been found (due to 
great detective work by Matthias).

The real problem remains, but will, I hope, some day be identified and 
solved.

Problem statement : the upgrade to significantly faster hardware, a 
modern 64-bit OS and LC6.x to 9.x cause a degradation in performance 
sufficient that client apps failed because the server responses were so 
delayed that the clients timed out.

Work-around: increase the timeout values on the clients (and be glad 
that Phil controls bother server and clients, so is able to do this).

Real problem: there are still too many areas in which 9.x performance is 
much worse than 6.x, and it would be good to see more (some) info from 
the mothership on how they plan to tackle these. Phil may be able to 
shed some light on the kind of things being done on his sever app, to 
see if that can identify particular areas that are having this negative 
effect.

Alex.



On 08/05/2020 13:28, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote:
> Phil,
>
> i?ve answered already to the bug report, but maybe this is also of interest for the others.
>
> As i have also accoun ton the same On-Revi  as you and did some test.
> I am sure it?s a tsNet timeout problem.
>
> tsNET has several default timeouts. The defaults are 30, 0, 300000, 60000, 30, 1000
>
>   The fifth one defines "the time period in seconds that is used to calculate whether or not the transfer has fallen below the low speed limit set by pLowSpeedLimit."
> It can be set either to 0 to disable the time out or to any other value.
>
> In my first test my LC Server script returned just a 5MB file back to the client. That worked.
>
> I then added a "wait 45 seconds"  to the script before outputting/returning 5MB file to the client. I got exactly the same error message than youor your  clients,
>
> "tsneterr: (28) Operation too slow. Less than 1000 bytes/sec transferred the last 30 seconds"
> This makes sense as because of the "wait 45 seconds" we exceeded the default time-out value of 30.
>
>
> I then added the following line to the client script.
>
> tsNetSetTimeouts 30, 0, 300000, 60000, 120, 1000
> With it i?ve changed the timeout to 120 seconds.
>
> After adding that line, the 5 MB file was received again by the client w/o the tsNet error.
>
> So setting the timeout either to a higher value or to 0 in the client script should solve it. I am not sure, but i assume setting it to 0 is not recommended.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Matthias
>
> -
> Matthias Rebbe
> Life Is Too Short For Boring Code
>
>> Am 07.05.2020 um 20:35 schrieb Phil Davis via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>
>> Thank you all for so many great questions and responses! I don't have time to give a comprehensive response right now but (1) I'll whittle away at it and (2) all your comments renew my hope that a solution is out there waiting for me to find it.
>>
>> Quick responses:
>>
>> - I too would start by going back to LC 6.6.x on the server if I could, but apparently the recent server upgrades - new hardware running LC 9.5.1 - are not backward compatible. That's what I'm told at least.
>>
>> - The LC client app is POSTing a request to an LC CGI system on an on-rev server. The server system assembles a data packet (normally an encoded array), encrypts & encodes it and writes it back to the client. The packet can be any size up to maybe a megabyte or two, but that would be pretty big. Normally the packet size is no more than a few hundred KB.
>>
>> Thanks again -
>> Phil
>>
>>
>> On 5/7/20 7:29 AM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Phil,
>>>
>>> I had a problem with a GET request with a url encoded url in a parameter
>>> after the upgrade. There are new security rules. I changed it to a POST and
>>> it then worked. I am changing my apps to use a POST. Robin had lifted the
>>> new security rule for me temporarily until all the apps are updated. One
>>> other thing, the new MySQL server is now Maria DB. It is functionally the
>>> same but I noticed if you have a column with no default value but is
>>> required and the field is not in the SQL update then it throws an error.
>>> MySQL did not do this.
>>>
>>> Ralph DiMola
>>> IT Director
>>> Evergreen Information Services
>>> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf
>>> Of Phil Davis via use-livecode
>>> Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2020 3:18 AM
>>> To: How to use LiveCode
>>> Cc: Phil Davis
>>> Subject: on-rev server upgrade-related problems
>>>
>>> Has anyone had part or all of an on-rev server-based system stop working
>>> since the server upgrades a month or so ago?
>>>
>>> My client has an on-rev.com-based training system. Training delivery is via
>>> web browser, and that part continues to work. But there are several desktop
>>> apps that provide training development, management and real-time monitoring.
>>> All of those apps became non-functional as soon as the upgrades were done,
>>> and remain so. I haven't been able to figure out how to restore
>>> functionality.
>>>
>>> Robin in on-rev support has been very helpful, but we still don't have a
>>> solution. This is the bug report:
>>>
>>>      https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22704
>>>
>>> I wouldn't wish this on anyone, but in a way I'm hoping it isn't just us.
>>>
>>> Thanks -
>>> Phil Davis
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
>>> preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>
>> -- 
>> Phil Davis
>> 503-307-4363
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Fri May  8 18:58:13 2020
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Fri, 8 May 2020 18:58:13 -0400
Subject: [OT] Older Macs and macOS 10.14 / 10.15
In-Reply-To: <0AC30882-3A24-42F1-8976-EA4FE4E4B33D@m-r-d.de>
References: <1d69d234-673c-b404-5c58-8d8beeef8c37@pdslabs.net>
 <001601d6247b$f839c040$e8ad40c0$@net>
 <9d2bad48-fedb-5f31-a878-a105dab957f3@pdslabs.net>
 <0AC30882-3A24-42F1-8976-EA4FE4E4B33D@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <005901d6258c$299f4040$7cddc0c0$@net>

DISCLAIMER: I don?t recommend anyone use this tool. This is just my experience.

I used a tool by dosdude to install Mojave on my early 2011 MacBook Pro with 16mb memory and 2tb HD.

1) I made 2 backups(Time Machine and CC Cloner) before I started. I can't emphasize enough to make a backup(s) before upgrading.
3) Verified that the CC clone booted via USB. (refer back to step 1)
4) Converted 10.13 to APFS in recovery mode.
5) After one install failure using dosdude's tool I powered down, removed the USB mouse/keyboard, rebooted and then the upgrade completed.
6) Installed Xcode 11.3.1
7) Opened up LC 9.6 dp4 and got the green square.
8) Of course my Apple License renewed while all this was going on (sigh). So after I went through that rigmarole...
9) Built iOS dev app with 9.6 dp4 and installed it on device. iOS 13 SDK!!! 
9) The only problem I had so far is the ethernet port initially did not work. Error was "Network Cable Unplugged". I deleted the ethernet connection in system prefs and re-added. It worked immediately after that.

Just a story for your entertainment.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net




From ahsoftware at sonic.net  Fri May  8 21:33:14 2020
From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Fri, 8 May 2020 18:33:14 -0700
Subject: upcoming online conferences
Message-ID: <a080043f-696c-9d70-ba3e-52992a3791c8@sonic.net>

A couple of free-to-watch online conferences coming up that may be of 
interest:

Tech Inclusion 12 May 2020
https://techinclusion.co/summit/#agenda

JSNation June 18-19 2020
https://live.jsnation.com/

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From ahsoftware at sonic.net  Fri May  8 21:58:32 2020
From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Fri, 8 May 2020 18:58:32 -0700
Subject: also... Machine Learning Foundations
Message-ID: <38a675dc-6b5d-0077-8d9b-44986638e5f0@sonic.net>

New Google Developers video series:

Ep #1 - What is ML?

Machine Learning Foundations is a free training course where you?ll 
learn the fundamentals of building machine learned models using TensorFlow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Z9TRANg4c0

I survived tensorflow.js training last year. This series seems like an 
excellent introduction to machine learning concepts.

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From keith.clarke at me.com  Sat May  9 09:46:57 2020
From: keith.clarke at me.com (Keith Clarke)
Date: Sat, 9 May 2020 14:46:57 +0100
Subject: Recommended (simple) Linux distro for Livecode server home dev/test?
Message-ID: <37EFA29B-8079-4EC7-8780-642437FE4A3E@me.com>

Hi folks,
Which distro(s) would you recommend for a Linux newbie as the easiest way to repurpose an old PC, Mac Laptop or Mini to host Livecode Server for lightweight ?LAMP/LAML' dev/test dabbling?

I?ve never had a Linux desktop machine and server-wise, never had to delve below C-Panel & WHM on hosted VPS Linux environments - so am very much the newbie on this.

Hardware specs would be useful, too - to gauge how far back on the cupboard to reach to source an appropriate box!  

Thanks & regards,
Keith   


From livfoss at mac.com  Sat May  9 10:05:33 2020
From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel)
Date: Sat, 9 May 2020 16:05:33 +0200
Subject: Small and strange problem
Message-ID: <8C75384D-78C3-4493-A675-3E28CDAB5986@mac.com>

I?m using LC 9.6.0 dp4 and 9.5.1 - this issue is seen in both versions.

I have a script with a very simple statement:
  put (tMins/60) into tMins

tMins contains a number, and as expected I get a numeric result, for example if tMins is 31, I get 0.516667

but ONLY when I step through the script in the IDE. If I let the script run, the IDE reports an error:

> Execution error (operators /: error in left operand, char 1


Either there?s an error or there isn?t. What can be wrong? I suppose as usual it?s me, but I am foxed.

Graham

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Sat May  9 14:59:14 2020
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Sat, 9 May 2020 11:59:14 -0700
Subject: Recommended (simple) Linux distro for Livecode server home
 dev/test?
In-Reply-To: <37EFA29B-8079-4EC7-8780-642437FE4A3E@me.com>
References: <37EFA29B-8079-4EC7-8780-642437FE4A3E@me.com>
Message-ID: <b020d266-a7f5-83e3-4199-41349b041fb8@fourthworld.com>

Keith Clarke wrote:
 > Hi folks,
 > Which distro(s) would you recommend for a Linux newbie as the easiest
 > way to repurpose an old PC, Mac Laptop or Mini to host Livecode Server
 > for lightweight ?LAMP/LAML' dev/test dabbling?
 >
 > I?ve never had a Linux desktop machine and server-wise, never had to
 > delve below C-Panel & WHM on hosted VPS Linux environments - so am
 > very much the newbie on this.

Ubuntu, without question.

There many great distros, and I don't think there is a single "best". 
But Ubuntu has by far the largest installed base, so most of the 
tutorials and other support materials you'll find are written with 
Ubuntu in mind.

This is especially true on servers. Heck, even on Microsoft's Azure 
cloud ecosystem. Ubuntu is the leading OS.

Desktop:
https://ubuntu.com/download/desktop

Server:
https://ubuntu.com/download/server

You may change later; some folks like to distro-hop often. But the vast 
range of support materials makes Ubuntu the go-to starting point for 
getting into Linux.


 > Hardware specs would be useful, too - to gauge how far back on the
 > cupboard to reach to source an appropriate box!

You can check the requirements at the site, but you probably don't need 
to worry about it.  If it's for a sever you won't need the GUI desktop 
edition, and it's the desktop where requirements tend to be much higher. 
  There's a flavor of Ubuntu for everything from Raspberry Pi to 
supercomputing clusters - you should have no trouble finding one for 
your old PCs. The Server edition should get you up and running on just 
about any machine made in the last 10 years or more.


If you want a GUI desktop edition and have an old machine that's a bit 
underpowered for Ubuntu, there's a lightweight flavor you can use:

https://lubuntu.net/

Lubuntu is the leanest Ubuntu flavor I've tried.  It's been running on 
my desk almost continuously for the last decade, downloading, collating, 
and posting data for the info you see in LiveNet (see the GoLiveNet 
plugin in LC's Plugins menu).

I prefer Ubuntu's Gnome Shell for my main workstation, but on 
lower-powered machines I've been impressed with how efficiently Lubuntu 
runs.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com




From jeejeestudio at gmail.com  Sat May  9 15:00:46 2020
From: jeejeestudio at gmail.com (JeeJeeStudio)
Date: Sat, 9 May 2020 21:00:46 +0200
Subject: Recommended (simple) Linux distro for Livecode server home
 dev/test?
In-Reply-To: <37EFA29B-8079-4EC7-8780-642437FE4A3E@me.com>
References: <37EFA29B-8079-4EC7-8780-642437FE4A3E@me.com>
Message-ID: <121cdf4a-4188-f2dd-c88f-9add2b55feb1@gmail.com>

i would use Ubuntu server as there is much info about it

on HowtoForge.com are very nice tutorials on how to setup Linux servers 
for several distributions of your choice.

You can use these to set up a VPS, but also a Laptop or whatever to use 
as a server.



Op 9-5-2020 om 15:46 schreef Keith Clarke via use-livecode:
> Hi folks,
> Which distro(s) would you recommend for a Linux newbie as the easiest way to repurpose an old PC, Mac Laptop or Mini to host Livecode Server for lightweight ?LAMP/LAML' dev/test dabbling?
>
> I?ve never had a Linux desktop machine and server-wise, never had to delve below C-Panel & WHM on hosted VPS Linux environments - so am very much the newbie on this.
>
> Hardware specs would be useful, too - to gauge how far back on the cupboard to reach to source an appropriate box!
>
> Thanks & regards,
> Keith
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From ahsoftware at sonic.net  Sat May  9 16:52:06 2020
From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sat, 9 May 2020 13:52:06 -0700
Subject: Recommended (simple) Linux distro for Livecode server home
 dev/test?
In-Reply-To: <37EFA29B-8079-4EC7-8780-642437FE4A3E@me.com>
References: <37EFA29B-8079-4EC7-8780-642437FE4A3E@me.com>
Message-ID: <9bf67710-0568-9199-bfb1-9477d25a10ba@sonic.net>

On 5/9/20 6:46 AM, Keith Clarke via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi folks,
> Which distro(s) would you recommend for a Linux newbie as the easiest way to repurpose an old PC, Mac Laptop or Mini to host Livecode Server for lightweight ?LAMP/LAML' dev/test dabbling?
> 
> I?ve never had a Linux desktop machine and server-wise, never had to delve below C-Panel & WHM on hosted VPS Linux environments - so am very much the newbie on this.
> 
> Hardware specs would be useful, too - to gauge how far back on the cupboard to reach to source an appropriate box!

Agreed that it's Ubuntu. Shouldn't have to worry about the hardware 
specs, but do note that the LC release notes limit the "officially 
supported" Ubuntu versions to 14.04 and 16.04, if that matters to you 
(hint: it shouldn't).


-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From livfoss at mac.com  Sat May  9 18:01:55 2020
From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel)
Date: Sun, 10 May 2020 00:01:55 +0200
Subject: Not quite OT: Privacy Policy
Message-ID: <834352C3-9844-4425-839C-9900C1166F82@mac.com>

I find that to publish an app on the Apple App Store, or even reach the TestFlight stage, I need a Privacy Policy. This for an app that collects no personal data and doesn?t use the internet. Frankly I?m thinking of copying and adapting a PL from another app that is similarly simple, rather than using an overly complex generated one. How do others cope with this?

Graham

Sent from my iPhone


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sat May  9 23:38:35 2020
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sat, 09 May 2020 22:38:35 -0500
Subject: Not quite OT: Privacy Policy
In-Reply-To: <834352C3-9844-4425-839C-9900C1166F82@mac.com>
References: <834352C3-9844-4425-839C-9900C1166F82@mac.com>
Message-ID: <171fca9be78.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

I wrote a very short paragraph saying the app had no internet connection 
and no special permissions, that no data was ever sent, and that 
information was only stored locally on the user's device. I think it was 
only two or three sentences. I stuck it on my web site and it was fine. I 
kind of doubt Apple ever reads those.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On May 9, 2020 5:04:01 PM Graham Samuel via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I find that to publish an app on the Apple App Store, or even reach the 
> TestFlight stage, I need a Privacy Policy. This for an app that collects no 
> personal data and doesn?t use the internet. Frankly I?m thinking of copying 
> and adapting a PL from another app that is similarly simple, rather than 
> using an overly complex generated one. How do others cope with this?
>
> Graham
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode






From sundown at pacifier.com  Sun May 10 00:23:02 2020
From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB)
Date: Sat, 9 May 2020 21:23:02 -0700
Subject: Not quite OT: Privacy Policy
In-Reply-To: <171fca9be78.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <834352C3-9844-4425-839C-9900C1166F82@mac.com>
 <171fca9be78.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <2EC1817E-3D23-49D6-A32E-6EC0DB94134C@pacifier.com>

Even if Apple does read them you satisfied the reason
for Apple to inform people on how your app is used.  It
is not an intent of Apple to force you to use a lawyer or
require you to explain your app in legal mumbo jumbo.

Most people would rather read your honest explanation
than read the ones written by attorneys.

JB


> On May 9, 2020, at 8:38 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I wrote a very short paragraph saying the app had no internet connection and no special permissions, that no data was ever sent, and that information was only stored locally on the user's device. I think it was only two or three sentences. I stuck it on my web site and it was fine. I kind of doubt Apple ever reads those.
> 
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> On May 9, 2020 5:04:01 PM Graham Samuel via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> I find that to publish an app on the Apple App Store, or even reach the TestFlight stage, I need a Privacy Policy. This for an app that collects no personal data and doesn?t use the internet. Frankly I?m thinking of copying and adapting a PL from another app that is similarly simple, rather than using an overly complex generated one. How do others cope with this?
>> 
>> Graham
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From keith.clarke at me.com  Sun May 10 02:08:41 2020
From: keith.clarke at me.com (Keith Clarke)
Date: Sun, 10 May 2020 07:08:41 +0100
Subject: Recommended (simple) Linux distro for Livecode server home
 dev/test?
Message-ID: <A00AA9B0-997C-414F-9DEF-86E89225EC8D@me.com>

Great, thanks - to all who responded - nothing quite like a shortlist of one to ease decision-making! :)

Time to have a play...
Best,
Keith..

>> On 9 May 2020, at 20:01, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> ?Keith Clarke wrote:
>> Hi folks,
>> Which distro(s) would you recommend for a Linux newbie as the easiest
>> way to repurpose an old PC, Mac Laptop or Mini to host Livecode Server
>> for lightweight ?LAMP/LAML' dev/test dabbling?
>> I?ve never had a Linux desktop machine and server-wise, never had to
>> delve below C-Panel & WHM on hosted VPS Linux environments - so am
>> very much the newbie on this.
> 
> Ubuntu, without question.
> 
> There many great distros, and I don't think there is a single "best". But Ubuntu has by far the largest installed base, so most of the tutorials and other support materials you'll find are written with Ubuntu in mind.
> 
> This is especially true on servers. Heck, even on Microsoft's Azure cloud ecosystem. Ubuntu is the leading OS.
> 
> Desktop:
> https://ubuntu.com/download/desktop
> 
> Server:
> https://ubuntu.com/download/server
> 
> You may change later; some folks like to distro-hop often. But the vast range of support materials makes Ubuntu the go-to starting point for getting into Linux.
> 
> 
>> Hardware specs would be useful, too - to gauge how far back on the
>> cupboard to reach to source an appropriate box!
> 
> You can check the requirements at the site, but you probably don't need to worry about it.  If it's for a sever you won't need the GUI desktop edition, and it's the desktop where requirements tend to be much higher.  There's a flavor of Ubuntu for everything from Raspberry Pi to supercomputing clusters - you should have no trouble finding one for your old PCs. The Server edition should get you up and running on just about any machine made in the last 10 years or more.
> 
> 
> If you want a GUI desktop edition and have an old machine that's a bit underpowered for Ubuntu, there's a lightweight flavor you can use:
> 
> https://lubuntu.net/
> 
> Lubuntu is the leanest Ubuntu flavor I've tried.  It's been running on my desk almost continuously for the last decade, downloading, collating, and posting data for the info you see in LiveNet (see the GoLiveNet plugin in LC's Plugins menu).
> 
> I prefer Ubuntu's Gnome Shell for my main workstation, but on lower-powered machines I've been impressed with how efficiently Lubuntu runs.
> 
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
> ____________________________________________________________________
> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From livfoss at mac.com  Sun May 10 04:52:59 2020
From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel)
Date: Sun, 10 May 2020 10:52:59 +0200
Subject: Not quite OT: Privacy Policy
In-Reply-To: <2EC1817E-3D23-49D6-A32E-6EC0DB94134C@pacifier.com>
References: <834352C3-9844-4425-839C-9900C1166F82@mac.com>
 <171fca9be78.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <2EC1817E-3D23-49D6-A32E-6EC0DB94134C@pacifier.com>
Message-ID: <3DACE98D-FE63-43DF-878C-C44186158F29@mac.com>

Thanks Jacque and JB. Sound advice, which I will instantly take.

Graham

PS I was surprised on Googling all this that there are paid-for generators for this kind of thing, including Cookie policies etc. I suppose it makes sense to some, but I would personally not wish to go down that path even if my needs were more complex. Legal mumbo-jumbo indeed.

> On 10 May 2020, at 06:23, JB via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Even if Apple does read them you satisfied the reason
> for Apple to inform people on how your app is used.  It
> is not an intent of Apple to force you to use a lawyer or
> require you to explain your app in legal mumbo jumbo.
> 
> Most people would rather read your honest explanation
> than read the ones written by attorneys.
> 
> JB
> 
> 
>> On May 9, 2020, at 8:38 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I wrote a very short paragraph saying the app had no internet connection and no special permissions, that no data was ever sent, and that information was only stored locally on the user's device. I think it was only two or three sentences. I stuck it on my web site and it was fine. I kind of doubt Apple ever reads those.
>> 
>> --
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>> On May 9, 2020 5:04:01 PM Graham Samuel via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> I find that to publish an app on the Apple App Store, or even reach the TestFlight stage, I need a Privacy Policy. This for an app that collects no personal data and doesn?t use the internet. Frankly I?m thinking of copying and adapting a PL from another app that is similarly simple, rather than using an overly complex generated one. How do others cope with this?
>>> 
>>> Graham
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From davros at bellaliant.net  Sun May 10 11:49:36 2020
From: davros at bellaliant.net (John McKenzie)
Date: Sun, 10 May 2020 12:49:36 -0300
Subject: Recommended (simple) Linux distro for Livecode server home
 dev/test?
In-Reply-To: <37EFA29B-8079-4EC7-8780-642437FE4A3E@me.com>
References: <37EFA29B-8079-4EC7-8780-642437FE4A3E@me.com>
Message-ID: <20200510124936.531ee81d@poesidon>


 Hello, Kieth.

 My health problems have kept me from really participating on the list
for a long time but I stayed as I want to get back to using Livecode at
some point. Your question about linux distros for server use on old
hardware though is something I can comment on.

 Sorry I did not post this earlier before you more or less made a
decision. At first I though the suggestions made were terrible because
you said it was old hardware. Then I realized the problem is I am old
and the others who responded were not picturing machines from the mid
1990's unlike me.

 I would go along with the suggestions made, especially the Lubuntu one
assuming your hardware can handle it. If it cannot please post a
follow up with an idea of how old your hardware is and I will make some
specific recommendations. Let us hope your machine is not so old we
start talking about Slackware installations but if we do I will get you
some help with it. :-)

 The best way to make Ubuntu more efficient is to use a desktop
environment (DE) that is less fancy and therefore less resource
intensive. (Any flavour of Ubuntu can make use of any DE just by
installing some extra software packages. Keep that in mind if you for
some reason need to change the DE.)

 We could make the system even more efficient by starting with a base
Debian install and building it up piece by piece to what you need.
(Ubuntu is Debian based by the way.) Not as newbie friendly as
installing Lubuntu but not hard either. Just something I am throwing
out there as a backup plan. We can discuss it if you need it, but you
will probably be OK with trying Lubuntu, etc.

 Good luck. Post a follow up if your hardware cannot handle the initial
suggestions and we discuss other options.





From paul at livecode.org  Sun May 10 13:10:14 2020
From: paul at livecode.org (Paul Hibbert)
Date: Sun, 10 May 2020 10:10:14 -0700
Subject: Small and strange problem
In-Reply-To: <8C75384D-78C3-4493-A675-3E28CDAB5986@mac.com>
References: <8C75384D-78C3-4493-A675-3E28CDAB5986@mac.com>
Message-ID: <EDEC9C82-531A-44B4-AC77-C1C796FE8F68@livecode.org>

No replies so far, so I had a few minutes spare and tried to recreate this problem, but couldn?t. No matter what I put into tMins first, even an empty variable still returned 0, so my suggestion would be to wrap the script in a try - catch to see what?s going on with the left operand (tMins) during the equation, something like:

   try
      put (tMins/60) into tMins
   catch tError
      if tError then answer "An Error Occurred;"  && tError & return & "tMins =" && tMins
   end try

I tried in both versions of LC that you mentioned and saw no problem. 

Maybe somebody else will have a better idea.

Paul

> On May 9, 2020, at 07:05, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I?m using LC 9.6.0 dp4 and 9.5.1 - this issue is seen in both versions.
> 
> I have a script with a very simple statement:
>  put (tMins/60) into tMins
> 
> tMins contains a number, and as expected I get a numeric result, for example if tMins is 31, I get 0.516667
> 
> but ONLY when I step through the script in the IDE. If I let the script run, the IDE reports an error:
> 
>> Execution error (operators /: error in left operand, char 1
> 
> 
> Either there?s an error or there isn?t. What can be wrong? I suppose as usual it?s me, but I am foxed.
> 
> Graham
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From jiml at netrin.com  Sun May 10 14:30:45 2020
From: jiml at netrin.com (Jim Lambert)
Date: Sun, 10 May 2020 11:30:45 -0700
Subject: upcoming online conferences
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1589040001.379758.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
References: <mailman.1.1589040001.379758.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <544DA67C-E765-4A28-9EDB-7660FBA921B1@netrin.com>

Mark,

Thank for the links and for the Machine Learning intro link.

Jim Lambert



From tom at makeshyft.com  Sun May 10 15:52:52 2020
From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod)
Date: Sun, 10 May 2020 15:52:52 -0400
Subject: Small and strange problem
In-Reply-To: <EDEC9C82-531A-44B4-AC77-C1C796FE8F68@livecode.org>
References: <8C75384D-78C3-4493-A675-3E28CDAB5986@mac.com>
 <EDEC9C82-531A-44B4-AC77-C1C796FE8F68@livecode.org>
Message-ID: <CAPzQJL+xbgA0ZqK23rgyRyLuMY_WYfQ8t4nZWrWqNzdLrTsk0A@mail.gmail.com>

try putting a space between the left and right of the / and see if you
still get it.

On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 1:10 PM Paul Hibbert via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> No replies so far, so I had a few minutes spare and tried to recreate this
> problem, but couldn?t. No matter what I put into tMins first, even an empty
> variable still returned 0, so my suggestion would be to wrap the script in
> a try - catch to see what?s going on with the left operand (tMins) during
> the equation, something like:
>
>    try
>       put (tMins/60) into tMins
>    catch tError
>       if tError then answer "An Error Occurred;"  && tError & return &
> "tMins =" && tMins
>    end try
>
> I tried in both versions of LC that you mentioned and saw no problem.
>
> Maybe somebody else will have a better idea.
>
> Paul
>
> > On May 9, 2020, at 07:05, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > I?m using LC 9.6.0 dp4 and 9.5.1 - this issue is seen in both versions.
> >
> > I have a script with a very simple statement:
> >  put (tMins/60) into tMins
> >
> > tMins contains a number, and as expected I get a numeric result, for
> example if tMins is 31, I get 0.516667
> >
> > but ONLY when I step through the script in the IDE. If I let the script
> run, the IDE reports an error:
> >
> >> Execution error (operators /: error in left operand, char 1
> >
> >
> > Either there?s an error or there isn?t. What can be wrong? I suppose as
> usual it?s me, but I am foxed.
> >
> > Graham
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
Tom Glod
Founder & Developer
MakeShyft R.D.A (www.makeshyft.com)
Mobile:647.562.9411


From scott at elementarysoftware.com  Sun May 10 16:13:42 2020
From: scott at elementarysoftware.com (scott at elementarysoftware.com)
Date: Sun, 10 May 2020 13:13:42 -0700
Subject: Small and strange problem
In-Reply-To: <CAPzQJL+xbgA0ZqK23rgyRyLuMY_WYfQ8t4nZWrWqNzdLrTsk0A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8C75384D-78C3-4493-A675-3E28CDAB5986@mac.com>
 <EDEC9C82-531A-44B4-AC77-C1C796FE8F68@livecode.org>
 <CAPzQJL+xbgA0ZqK23rgyRyLuMY_WYfQ8t4nZWrWqNzdLrTsk0A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <24DAD857-E868-424E-814A-0350E223DD48@elementarysoftware.com>

How does tMins acquire the data? Are you certain it contains what you expect when you aren?t stepping through the code (and slowing things down)? perhaps a ?put tMins" or ?answer tMins? would expose something. (Probably not, but we are curious!)
?
Scott

> On May 10, 2020, at 12:52 PM, Tom Glod via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> try putting a space between the left and right of the / and see if you
> still get it.
> 
> On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 1:10 PM Paul Hibbert via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> No replies so far, so I had a few minutes spare and tried to recreate this
>> problem, but couldn?t. No matter what I put into tMins first, even an empty
>> variable still returned 0, so my suggestion would be to wrap the script in
>> a try - catch to see what?s going on with the left operand (tMins) during
>> the equation, something like:
>> 
>>   try
>>      put (tMins/60) into tMins
>>   catch tError
>>      if tError then answer "An Error Occurred;"  && tError & return &
>> "tMins =" && tMins
>>   end try
>> 
>> I tried in both versions of LC that you mentioned and saw no problem.
>> 
>> Maybe somebody else will have a better idea.
>> 
>> Paul
>> 
>>> On May 9, 2020, at 07:05, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I?m using LC 9.6.0 dp4 and 9.5.1 - this issue is seen in both versions.
>>> 
>>> I have a script with a very simple statement:
>>> put (tMins/60) into tMins
>>> 
>>> tMins contains a number, and as expected I get a numeric result, for
>> example if tMins is 31, I get 0.516667
>>> 
>>> but ONLY when I step through the script in the IDE. If I let the script
>> run, the IDE reports an error:
>>> 
>>>> Execution error (operators /: error in left operand, char 1
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Either there?s an error or there isn?t. What can be wrong? I suppose as
>> usual it?s me, but I am foxed.
>>> 
>>> Graham
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tom Glod
> Founder & Developer
> MakeShyft R.D.A (www.makeshyft.com)
> Mobile:647.562.9411
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From smudge.andy at googlemail.com  Mon May 11 04:24:08 2020
From: smudge.andy at googlemail.com (smudge.andy at googlemail.com)
Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 03:24:08 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Small and strange problem
Message-ID: <5149994.244134.1589185448424.JavaMail.administrator@n4.nabble.com>

I seem to have my posts dropped at the moment hence this,

I'm seeing the same error

with 

on mouseUp pMouseButton
  put (tMins/60) into tMins
  answer tMins
end mouseUp

button "Button": execution error at line 2 (Operators /: error in left operand), char 1

Interestingly this

on mouseUp pMouseButton
  try
    put (tMins/60) into tMins
  catch tError
    if tError then answer "An Error Occurred;"  && tError & return & "tMins =" && tMins
  end try
end mouseUp

does NOT through an error or a catch error message


If however tMins is initialized then all works as expected

on mouseUp pMouseButton
  put 20 into tMins
  put (tMins/60) into tMins
  answer tMins
end mouseUp

???


_____________________________________
Sent from http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com




From toolbook at kestner.de  Mon May 11 06:04:42 2020
From: toolbook at kestner.de (toolbook at kestner.de)
Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 12:04:42 +0200
Subject: Externals are not loaded
Message-ID: <013901d6277b$99f99660$cdecc320$@kestner.de>

Hello,

 

I haven't worked on this old program for a year or more, last with LC 9.0.2.
It uses several externals on Windows, which are located in the standard"
folder "Externals" within the stack folder.

When I now open it with LC 9.0.2 or 9.5.1 the externalPackages of the stack
is empty.

I searched the docs, but can't remember, if and how I have to assign the
externals  or the path of the externals to my stack or even why LC doesn't
loads my externals anymore, though I haven't changed anything on this stack
since last year, where everything worked fine until the last use.

 

Can anyone shed some light on the handling of externals for me, what could
have happened here?

Thank you

Tiemo

 

 



From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Mon May 11 06:22:37 2020
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 12:22:37 +0200
Subject: Externals are not loaded
In-Reply-To: <013901d6277b$99f99660$cdecc320$@kestner.de>
References: <013901d6277b$99f99660$cdecc320$@kestner.de>
Message-ID: <2598B0A5-16C0-4065-BBE4-E8BFEECA2A99@m-r-d.de>

Tiemo,

are you using  the  externals that are included with LC or 3rd party ones?

If the latter, did you  check the following lesson already about How to use 3rd party Externals?

Regards,

Matthias

-
Matthias Rebbe
Life Is Too Short For Boring Code

> Am 11.05.2020 um 12:04 schrieb Tiemo via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't worked on this old program for a year or more, last with LC 9.0.2.
> It uses several externals on Windows, which are located in the standard"
> folder "Externals" within the stack folder.
> 
> When I now open it with LC 9.0.2 or 9.5.1 the externalPackages of the stack
> is empty.
> 
> I searched the docs, but can't remember, if and how I have to assign the
> externals  or the path of the externals to my stack or even why LC doesn't
> loads my externals anymore, though I haven't changed anything on this stack
> since last year, where everything worked fine until the last use.
> 
> 
> 
> Can anyone shed some light on the handling of externals for me, what could
> have happened here?
> 
> Thank you
> 
> Tiemo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Mon May 11 06:28:17 2020
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 12:28:17 +0200
Subject: Externals are not loaded
In-Reply-To: <2598B0A5-16C0-4065-BBE4-E8BFEECA2A99@m-r-d.de>
References: <013901d6277b$99f99660$cdecc320$@kestner.de>
 <2598B0A5-16C0-4065-BBE4-E8BFEECA2A99@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <898269B5-121A-4E9D-AA17-9BC6D2B97648@m-r-d.de>

Sorry, i forgot to add the link. 

http://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/6347-how-to-install-3rd-party-externals-for-use-in-the-ide-and-standalone-builder


-
Matthias Rebbe
Life Is Too Short For Boring Code

> Am 11.05.2020 um 12:22 schrieb matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Tiemo,
> 
> are you using  the  externals that are included with LC or 3rd party ones?
> 
> If the latter, did you  check the following lesson already about How to use 3rd party Externals?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Matthias
> 
> -
> Matthias Rebbe
> Life Is Too Short For Boring Code
> 
>> Am 11.05.2020 um 12:04 schrieb Tiemo via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> Hello,
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I haven't worked on this old program for a year or more, last with LC 9.0.2.
>> It uses several externals on Windows, which are located in the standard"
>> folder "Externals" within the stack folder.
>> 
>> When I now open it with LC 9.0.2 or 9.5.1 the externalPackages of the stack
>> is empty.
>> 
>> I searched the docs, but can't remember, if and how I have to assign the
>> externals  or the path of the externals to my stack or even why LC doesn't
>> loads my externals anymore, though I haven't changed anything on this stack
>> since last year, where everything worked fine until the last use.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Can anyone shed some light on the handling of externals for me, what could
>> have happened here?
>> 
>> Thank you
>> 
>> Tiemo
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From panos.merakos at livecode.com  Mon May 11 09:00:04 2020
From: panos.merakos at livecode.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 16:00:04 +0300
Subject: [ANN] Release 9.6.0 RC-1
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq8=wG-amx+gEh7nvohr=t+Kcb=Ka=uHXH7gRrOX2nXRhA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear list members,

We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 9.6.0 RC-1.


Getting the Release
===================
You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ or via
the automatic updater.


Release Contents
================
LiveCode 9.6.0 RC-1 comes with more than 30 changes, including:

New Features
  - Support for Storyboard launch images and backgrounds on iOS
  - Support for using the flash as a torch in the Android Barcode Scanner
  - Support for building with Xcode 11.4, using the iOS 13.4 SDK
  - New tsNet and mergExt builds, built with the iOS 13.4 SDK

Bug Fixes:
  - Improvements in the text-to-speech library
  - Improvements in the iOS native browser
  - Improvements in the camera control object
  - Significant performance improvement when saving stacks on Windows
  - Improvements in the Windows FFI in LCB

For the full list of all fixes, updates and enhancements please see the
release notes:
http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/9_6_0/LiveCodeNotes-9_6_0_rc_1.pdf


Known issues
============
- The Browser widget's native layer is not shown in some Linux distros with
Cinnamon window manager.
- The use of the Browser widget is not supported on Ubuntu 18.04 64 bit LTS
yet.


Required Software
=================
To build iOS apps with LiveCode you must have the appropriate versions of
Xcode as follows:

  - macOS 10.13.4: Xcode 10.1 - LiveCode builds iOS apps using the iOS 12.1
SDK
  - macOS 10.14.4: Xcode 11.3.x - LiveCode builds iOS apps using the iOS
13.2 SDK
  - macOS 10.15.2: Xcode 11.4.x - LiveCode builds iOS apps using the iOS
13.4 SDK

There is a full list of working LiveCode/macOS/Xcode combinations here:
https://livecode.com/docs/9-5-0/faq/faq/

Note: Whilst we endeavour to release updated versions of LiveCode
supporting the latest Xcode/iOS SDKs as quickly as possible; we strongly
recommend disabling automatic update of Xcode or downloading the specific
version of Xcode required directly from the Apple developer portal and
installing it separately.

Important: From the end of June 2020, Apple will only be accepting apps
built using iOS13 SDKs. This means that, if you wish to submit apps to the
AppStore you will have to be running at least macOS 10.14 in order to be
able to install the necessary version of Xcode.


Feedback
========
Please report any bugs encountered on our quality center at
http://quality.livecode.com/

We have a forum available for discussing LiveCode Builder at
http://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=93


Have fun!
The LiveCode Team
--


From colinholgate at gmail.com  Mon May 11 09:42:04 2020
From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate)
Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 07:42:04 -0600
Subject: Small and strange problem
In-Reply-To: <5149994.244134.1589185448424.JavaMail.administrator@n4.nabble.com>
References: <5149994.244134.1589185448424.JavaMail.administrator@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <960706F0-BA73-437A-A4DA-E330D92B0697@gmail.com>

Do you have an earlier line where you have set tMins? If it has never been set, would you export tMins/60 to work?

Aside from that, there was a change in LiveCode 7 or 8, where you could no longer create a variable on the first line that it is used. You need to have declared it earlier on.


> On May 11, 2020, at 2:24 AM, AndyP via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I seem to have my posts dropped at the moment hence this,
> 
> I'm seeing the same error
> 
> with 
> 
> on mouseUp pMouseButton
>  put (tMins/60) into tMins
>  answer tMins
> end mouseUp
> 
> button "Button": execution error at line 2 (Operators /: error in left operand), char 1
> 
> Interestingly this
> 
> on mouseUp pMouseButton
>  try
>    put (tMins/60) into tMins
>  catch tError
>    if tError then answer "An Error Occurred;"  && tError & return & "tMins =" && tMins
>  end try
> end mouseUp
> 
> does NOT through an error or a catch error message
> 
> 
> If however tMins is initialized then all works as expected
> 
> on mouseUp pMouseButton
>  put 20 into tMins
>  put (tMins/60) into tMins
>  answer tMins
> end mouseUp
> 
> ???
> 
> 
> _____________________________________
> Sent from http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From harrison at all-auctions.com  Mon May 11 10:31:18 2020
From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison)
Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 10:31:18 -0400
Subject: Small and strange problem
In-Reply-To: <5149994.244134.1589185448424.JavaMail.administrator@n4.nabble.com>
References: <5149994.244134.1589185448424.JavaMail.administrator@n4.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <2175FE2F-58A1-4EFA-AAC1-073FFE98027A@all-auctions.com>

Hi Andy,

Yes, tMins has to have a value or the statement makes no sense because LC has no
context for what you are trying to do.  LC doesn?t know if tMins is a string or something else.

Rick


> On May 11, 2020, at 4:24 AM, AndyP via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I seem to have my posts dropped at the moment hence this,
> 
> I'm seeing the same error
> 
> with 
> 
> on mouseUp pMouseButton
>  put (tMins/60) into tMins
>  answer tMins
> end mouseUp
> 
> button "Button": execution error at line 2 (Operators /: error in left operand), char 1
> 
> Interestingly this
> 
> on mouseUp pMouseButton
>  try
>    put (tMins/60) into tMins
>  catch tError
>    if tError then answer "An Error Occurred;"  && tError & return & "tMins =" && tMins
>  end try
> end mouseUp
> 
> does NOT through an error or a catch error message
> 
> 
> If however tMins is initialized then all works as expected
> 
> on mouseUp pMouseButton
>  put 20 into tMins
>  put (tMins/60) into tMins
>  answer tMins
> end mouseUp
> 
> ???
> 
> 
> _____________________________________
> Sent from http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Mon May 11 10:56:09 2020
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 10:56:09 -0400
Subject: [ANN] Release 9.6.0 RC-1
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq8=wG-amx+gEh7nvohr=t+Kcb=Ka=uHXH7gRrOX2nXRhA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+JfEq8=wG-amx+gEh7nvohr=t+Kcb=Ka=uHXH7gRrOX2nXRhA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <006601d627a4$512afd60$f380f820$@net>

Panos,

What size does the splash images need to be? How are they resized for
various device aspect ratios? I make the splash image the same as the first
card of the stack and in the past it was easy to make them match. I could
not find anything in the docs or release notes. There used to be an image
for each device. Now there is only 3 for all devices. Actually there is 6
three light three dark but only three for any mode. How is this going to
work?

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net

-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf
Of panagiotis merakos via use-livecode
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 9:00 AM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: panagiotis merakos
Subject: [ANN] Release 9.6.0 RC-1

Dear list members,

We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 9.6.0 RC-1.


Getting the Release
===================
You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ or via
the automatic updater.


Release Contents
================
LiveCode 9.6.0 RC-1 comes with more than 30 changes, including:

New Features
  - Support for Storyboard launch images and backgrounds on iOS
  - Support for using the flash as a torch in the Android Barcode Scanner
  - Support for building with Xcode 11.4, using the iOS 13.4 SDK
  - New tsNet and mergExt builds, built with the iOS 13.4 SDK

Bug Fixes:
  - Improvements in the text-to-speech library
  - Improvements in the iOS native browser
  - Improvements in the camera control object
  - Significant performance improvement when saving stacks on Windows
  - Improvements in the Windows FFI in LCB

For the full list of all fixes, updates and enhancements please see the
release notes:
http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/9_6_0/LiveCodeNotes-9_6_0_rc_1.pdf


Known issues
============
- The Browser widget's native layer is not shown in some Linux distros with
Cinnamon window manager.
- The use of the Browser widget is not supported on Ubuntu 18.04 64 bit LTS
yet.


Required Software
=================
To build iOS apps with LiveCode you must have the appropriate versions of
Xcode as follows:

  - macOS 10.13.4: Xcode 10.1 - LiveCode builds iOS apps using the iOS 12.1
SDK
  - macOS 10.14.4: Xcode 11.3.x - LiveCode builds iOS apps using the iOS
13.2 SDK
  - macOS 10.15.2: Xcode 11.4.x - LiveCode builds iOS apps using the iOS
13.4 SDK

There is a full list of working LiveCode/macOS/Xcode combinations here:
https://livecode.com/docs/9-5-0/faq/faq/

Note: Whilst we endeavour to release updated versions of LiveCode supporting
the latest Xcode/iOS SDKs as quickly as possible; we strongly recommend
disabling automatic update of Xcode or downloading the specific version of
Xcode required directly from the Apple developer portal and installing it
separately.

Important: From the end of June 2020, Apple will only be accepting apps
built using iOS13 SDKs. This means that, if you wish to submit apps to the
AppStore you will have to be running at least macOS 10.14 in order to be
able to install the necessary version of Xcode.


Feedback
========
Please report any bugs encountered on our quality center at
http://quality.livecode.com/

We have a forum available for discussing LiveCode Builder at
http://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=93


Have fun!
The LiveCode Team
--
_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From merakosp at gmail.com  Mon May 11 11:12:27 2020
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 18:12:27 +0300
Subject: [ANN] Release 9.6.0 RC-1
In-Reply-To: <006601d627a4$512afd60$f380f820$@net>
References: <CA+JfEq8=wG-amx+gEh7nvohr=t+Kcb=Ka=uHXH7gRrOX2nXRhA@mail.gmail.com>
 <006601d627a4$512afd60$f380f820$@net>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq-TAnYO6VmNxh+wNVD0A5gRmq67Qdf4XWmYzvC43vAyqQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Ralph,

I believe that if you just set the 3x image to the largest image you used
before (e.g. use a 2048x2732 image), then the storyboard mechanism will
take care of the rest and scale the image automagically to fit all screen
sizes. At least this was the case in my tests.

We'll see if we could add more info in the tooltips or in the release notes
to make this less confusing :)

Also, off-topic, I noticed that the app loads faster now that it uses the
storyboard. I am curious if it is faster for you as well.

Kind regards,
Panos
--



On Mon, 11 May 2020 at 17:55, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Panos,
>
> What size does the splash images need to be? How are they resized for
> various device aspect ratios? I make the splash image the same as the first
> card of the stack and in the past it was easy to make them match. I could
> not find anything in the docs or release notes. There used to be an image
> for each device. Now there is only 3 for all devices. Actually there is 6
> three light three dark but only three for any mode. How is this going to
> work?
>
> Ralph DiMola
> IT Director
> Evergreen Information Services
> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On
> Behalf
> Of panagiotis merakos via use-livecode
> Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 9:00 AM
> To: How to use LiveCode
> Cc: panagiotis merakos
> Subject: [ANN] Release 9.6.0 RC-1
>
> Dear list members,
>
> We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 9.6.0 RC-1.
>
>
> Getting the Release
> ===================
> You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ or via
> the automatic updater.
>
>
> Release Contents
> ================
> LiveCode 9.6.0 RC-1 comes with more than 30 changes, including:
>
> New Features
>   - Support for Storyboard launch images and backgrounds on iOS
>   - Support for using the flash as a torch in the Android Barcode Scanner
>   - Support for building with Xcode 11.4, using the iOS 13.4 SDK
>   - New tsNet and mergExt builds, built with the iOS 13.4 SDK
>
> Bug Fixes:
>   - Improvements in the text-to-speech library
>   - Improvements in the iOS native browser
>   - Improvements in the camera control object
>   - Significant performance improvement when saving stacks on Windows
>   - Improvements in the Windows FFI in LCB
>
> For the full list of all fixes, updates and enhancements please see the
> release notes:
> http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/9_6_0/LiveCodeNotes-9_6_0_rc_1.pdf
>
>
> Known issues
> ============
> - The Browser widget's native layer is not shown in some Linux distros with
> Cinnamon window manager.
> - The use of the Browser widget is not supported on Ubuntu 18.04 64 bit LTS
> yet.
>
>
> Required Software
> =================
> To build iOS apps with LiveCode you must have the appropriate versions of
> Xcode as follows:
>
>   - macOS 10.13.4: Xcode 10.1 - LiveCode builds iOS apps using the iOS 12.1
> SDK
>   - macOS 10.14.4: Xcode 11.3.x - LiveCode builds iOS apps using the iOS
> 13.2 SDK
>   - macOS 10.15.2: Xcode 11.4.x - LiveCode builds iOS apps using the iOS
> 13.4 SDK
>
> There is a full list of working LiveCode/macOS/Xcode combinations here:
> https://livecode.com/docs/9-5-0/faq/faq/
>
> Note: Whilst we endeavour to release updated versions of LiveCode
> supporting
> the latest Xcode/iOS SDKs as quickly as possible; we strongly recommend
> disabling automatic update of Xcode or downloading the specific version of
> Xcode required directly from the Apple developer portal and installing it
> separately.
>
> Important: From the end of June 2020, Apple will only be accepting apps
> built using iOS13 SDKs. This means that, if you wish to submit apps to the
> AppStore you will have to be running at least macOS 10.14 in order to be
> able to install the necessary version of Xcode.
>
>
> Feedback
> ========
> Please report any bugs encountered on our quality center at
> http://quality.livecode.com/
>
> We have a forum available for discussing LiveCode Builder at
> http://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=93
>
>
> Have fun!
> The LiveCode Team
> --
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Mon May 11 11:25:54 2020
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 11:25:54 -0400
Subject: [ANN] Release 9.6.0 RC-1
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq-TAnYO6VmNxh+wNVD0A5gRmq67Qdf4XWmYzvC43vAyqQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+JfEq8=wG-amx+gEh7nvohr=t+Kcb=Ka=uHXH7gRrOX2nXRhA@mail.gmail.com>
 <006601d627a4$512afd60$f380f820$@net>
 <CA+JfEq-TAnYO6VmNxh+wNVD0A5gRmq67Qdf4XWmYzvC43vAyqQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <006a01d627a8$78e7e260$6ab7a720$@net>

Panos,

Thanks. A few questions

1) There used to be an error message to let you know the correct resolution.
Does this not make sense now?
2) If we use 2048x2732 for the 3x image what resolution should we use for
the 2x and 1x? Or do we need the 1x and 2x images at all?
3) So I assume since Apple devices use many different aspect ratios that
making an exact match of the splash image and the first card is no longer
possible?


Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net


-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf
Of panagiotis merakos via use-livecode
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 11:12 AM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: panagiotis merakos
Subject: Re: [ANN] Release 9.6.0 RC-1

Hello Ralph,

I believe that if you just set the 3x image to the largest image you used
before (e.g. use a 2048x2732 image), then the storyboard mechanism will take
care of the rest and scale the image automagically to fit all screen sizes.
At least this was the case in my tests.

We'll see if we could add more info in the tooltips or in the release notes
to make this less confusing :)

Also, off-topic, I noticed that the app loads faster now that it uses the
storyboard. I am curious if it is faster for you as well.

Kind regards,
Panos
--



On Mon, 11 May 2020 at 17:55, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Panos,
>
> What size does the splash images need to be? How are they resized for 
> various device aspect ratios? I make the splash image the same as the 
> first card of the stack and in the past it was easy to make them 
> match. I could not find anything in the docs or release notes. There 
> used to be an image for each device. Now there is only 3 for all 
> devices. Actually there is 6 three light three dark but only three for 
> any mode. How is this going to work?
>
> Ralph DiMola
> IT Director
> Evergreen Information Services
> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On 
> Behalf Of panagiotis merakos via use-livecode
> Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 9:00 AM
> To: How to use LiveCode
> Cc: panagiotis merakos
> Subject: [ANN] Release 9.6.0 RC-1
>
> Dear list members,
>
> We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 9.6.0 RC-1.
>
>
> Getting the Release
> ===================
> You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ or 
> via the automatic updater.
>
>
> Release Contents
> ================
> LiveCode 9.6.0 RC-1 comes with more than 30 changes, including:
>
> New Features
>   - Support for Storyboard launch images and backgrounds on iOS
>   - Support for using the flash as a torch in the Android Barcode Scanner
>   - Support for building with Xcode 11.4, using the iOS 13.4 SDK
>   - New tsNet and mergExt builds, built with the iOS 13.4 SDK
>
> Bug Fixes:
>   - Improvements in the text-to-speech library
>   - Improvements in the iOS native browser
>   - Improvements in the camera control object
>   - Significant performance improvement when saving stacks on Windows
>   - Improvements in the Windows FFI in LCB
>
> For the full list of all fixes, updates and enhancements please see 
> the release notes:
> http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/9_6_0/LiveCodeNotes-9_6_0_rc_1.
> pdf
>
>
> Known issues
> ============
> - The Browser widget's native layer is not shown in some Linux distros 
> with Cinnamon window manager.
> - The use of the Browser widget is not supported on Ubuntu 18.04 64 
> bit LTS yet.
>
>
> Required Software
> =================
> To build iOS apps with LiveCode you must have the appropriate versions 
> of Xcode as follows:
>
>   - macOS 10.13.4: Xcode 10.1 - LiveCode builds iOS apps using the iOS 
> 12.1 SDK
>   - macOS 10.14.4: Xcode 11.3.x - LiveCode builds iOS apps using the 
> iOS
> 13.2 SDK
>   - macOS 10.15.2: Xcode 11.4.x - LiveCode builds iOS apps using the 
> iOS
> 13.4 SDK
>
> There is a full list of working LiveCode/macOS/Xcode combinations here:
> https://livecode.com/docs/9-5-0/faq/faq/
>
> Note: Whilst we endeavour to release updated versions of LiveCode 
> supporting the latest Xcode/iOS SDKs as quickly as possible; we 
> strongly recommend disabling automatic update of Xcode or downloading 
> the specific version of Xcode required directly from the Apple 
> developer portal and installing it separately.
>
> Important: From the end of June 2020, Apple will only be accepting 
> apps built using iOS13 SDKs. This means that, if you wish to submit 
> apps to the AppStore you will have to be running at least macOS 10.14 
> in order to be able to install the necessary version of Xcode.
>
>
> Feedback
> ========
> Please report any bugs encountered on our quality center at 
> http://quality.livecode.com/
>
> We have a forum available for discussing LiveCode Builder at
> http://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=93
>
>
> Have fun!
> The LiveCode Team
> --
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Mon May 11 11:38:10 2020
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 11:38:10 -0400
Subject: [ANN] Release 9.6.0 RC-1
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq-TAnYO6VmNxh+wNVD0A5gRmq67Qdf4XWmYzvC43vAyqQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+JfEq8=wG-amx+gEh7nvohr=t+Kcb=Ka=uHXH7gRrOX2nXRhA@mail.gmail.com>
 <006601d627a4$512afd60$f380f820$@net>
 <CA+JfEq-TAnYO6VmNxh+wNVD0A5gRmq67Qdf4XWmYzvC43vAyqQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <006b01d627aa$2f6b67e0$8e4237a0$@net>

Also, Will the image be stretched or cropped to fit the various aspect
ratios? I would think the they will cropped as stretching would distort the
splash image. Is there a way for the storyboard to use custom images for
each of Apple's screen types? I know that this is what their trying to get
away from. I'm confused.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net


-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf
Of panagiotis merakos via use-livecode
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 11:12 AM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: panagiotis merakos
Subject: Re: [ANN] Release 9.6.0 RC-1

Hello Ralph,

I believe that if you just set the 3x image to the largest image you used
before (e.g. use a 2048x2732 image), then the storyboard mechanism will take
care of the rest and scale the image automagically to fit all screen sizes.
At least this was the case in my tests.

We'll see if we could add more info in the tooltips or in the release notes
to make this less confusing :)

Also, off-topic, I noticed that the app loads faster now that it uses the
storyboard. I am curious if it is faster for you as well.

Kind regards,
Panos
--



On Mon, 11 May 2020 at 17:55, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Panos,
>
> What size does the splash images need to be? How are they resized for 
> various device aspect ratios? I make the splash image the same as the 
> first card of the stack and in the past it was easy to make them 
> match. I could not find anything in the docs or release notes. There 
> used to be an image for each device. Now there is only 3 for all 
> devices. Actually there is 6 three light three dark but only three for 
> any mode. How is this going to work?
>
> Ralph DiMola
> IT Director
> Evergreen Information Services
> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On 
> Behalf Of panagiotis merakos via use-livecode
> Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 9:00 AM
> To: How to use LiveCode
> Cc: panagiotis merakos
> Subject: [ANN] Release 9.6.0 RC-1
>
> Dear list members,
>
> We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 9.6.0 RC-1.
>
>
> Getting the Release
> ===================
> You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ or 
> via the automatic updater.
>
>
> Release Contents
> ================
> LiveCode 9.6.0 RC-1 comes with more than 30 changes, including:
>
> New Features
>   - Support for Storyboard launch images and backgrounds on iOS
>   - Support for using the flash as a torch in the Android Barcode Scanner
>   - Support for building with Xcode 11.4, using the iOS 13.4 SDK
>   - New tsNet and mergExt builds, built with the iOS 13.4 SDK
>
> Bug Fixes:
>   - Improvements in the text-to-speech library
>   - Improvements in the iOS native browser
>   - Improvements in the camera control object
>   - Significant performance improvement when saving stacks on Windows
>   - Improvements in the Windows FFI in LCB
>
> For the full list of all fixes, updates and enhancements please see 
> the release notes:
> http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/9_6_0/LiveCodeNotes-9_6_0_rc_1.
> pdf
>
>
> Known issues
> ============
> - The Browser widget's native layer is not shown in some Linux distros 
> with Cinnamon window manager.
> - The use of the Browser widget is not supported on Ubuntu 18.04 64 
> bit LTS yet.
>
>
> Required Software
> =================
> To build iOS apps with LiveCode you must have the appropriate versions 
> of Xcode as follows:
>
>   - macOS 10.13.4: Xcode 10.1 - LiveCode builds iOS apps using the iOS 
> 12.1 SDK
>   - macOS 10.14.4: Xcode 11.3.x - LiveCode builds iOS apps using the 
> iOS
> 13.2 SDK
>   - macOS 10.15.2: Xcode 11.4.x - LiveCode builds iOS apps using the 
> iOS
> 13.4 SDK
>
> There is a full list of working LiveCode/macOS/Xcode combinations here:
> https://livecode.com/docs/9-5-0/faq/faq/
>
> Note: Whilst we endeavour to release updated versions of LiveCode 
> supporting the latest Xcode/iOS SDKs as quickly as possible; we 
> strongly recommend disabling automatic update of Xcode or downloading 
> the specific version of Xcode required directly from the Apple 
> developer portal and installing it separately.
>
> Important: From the end of June 2020, Apple will only be accepting 
> apps built using iOS13 SDKs. This means that, if you wish to submit 
> apps to the AppStore you will have to be running at least macOS 10.14 
> in order to be able to install the necessary version of Xcode.
>
>
> Feedback
> ========
> Please report any bugs encountered on our quality center at 
> http://quality.livecode.com/
>
> We have a forum available for discussing LiveCode Builder at
> http://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=93
>
>
> Have fun!
> The LiveCode Team
> --
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From merakosp at gmail.com  Mon May 11 11:51:20 2020
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 18:51:20 +0300
Subject: [ANN] Release 9.6.0 RC-1
In-Reply-To: <006b01d627aa$2f6b67e0$8e4237a0$@net>
References: <CA+JfEq8=wG-amx+gEh7nvohr=t+Kcb=Ka=uHXH7gRrOX2nXRhA@mail.gmail.com>
 <006601d627a4$512afd60$f380f820$@net>
 <CA+JfEq-TAnYO6VmNxh+wNVD0A5gRmq67Qdf4XWmYzvC43vAyqQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <006b01d627aa$2f6b67e0$8e4237a0$@net>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq-XtQG8YU9tOVZ6APQOT9LmYROiYHxvh+URGHxWHSowiA@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Ralph,

I'll leave this for Monte to provide more details, but my understanding is
that now with the storyboard you only need to provide one image, and this
will be scaled automatically for all screen sizes.

So if you provide only image in the 3x slot, say a 2048x2732, the
storyboard mechanism will use the same image scaled down to
(2048/2)x(2732/2) for the 2x  slot and (2048/3)x(2732/3) for the 1x slot.

So the idea is that now you do not need one separate image for each
possible device size. You only need one "small", and/or one "medium" and/or
one "large" image, and this image (or these images, in case you provide
more than one) will be used for "small","medium" and "large" device screen
sizes.

There are no specific required dimensions for each of the 1x,2x,3x slots,
so you get no error message, but a rule of thumb is to use the largest
image you used before for the 3x slot, and let the S/B do the rest for you.

*>>>>>Also, Will the image be stretched or cropped to fit the various
aspect*
*ratios?*

The image will be cropped.

If you only provide a "small" image (i.e. a 1x one), then in some large
screens it might appear as a letterbox, but you can choose the background
color to display in this case (in the areas that would appear "black" in
the letterbox). If the description is not clear, I suggest you do some
experimenting and see what is the behavior in this case.

Hope this helps.

Kind regards,
Panos


On Mon, 11 May 2020 at 18:37, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Also, Will the image be stretched or cropped to fit the various aspect
> ratios? I would think the they will cropped as stretching would distort the
> splash image. Is there a way for the storyboard to use custom images for
> each of Apple's screen types? I know that this is what their trying to get
> away from. I'm confused.
>
> Ralph DiMola
> IT Director
> Evergreen Information Services
> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On
> Behalf
> Of panagiotis merakos via use-livecode
> Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 11:12 AM
> To: How to use LiveCode
> Cc: panagiotis merakos
> Subject: Re: [ANN] Release 9.6.0 RC-1
>
> Hello Ralph,
>
> I believe that if you just set the 3x image to the largest image you used
> before (e.g. use a 2048x2732 image), then the storyboard mechanism will
> take
> care of the rest and scale the image automagically to fit all screen sizes.
> At least this was the case in my tests.
>
> We'll see if we could add more info in the tooltips or in the release notes
> to make this less confusing :)
>
> Also, off-topic, I noticed that the app loads faster now that it uses the
> storyboard. I am curious if it is faster for you as well.
>
> Kind regards,
> Panos
> --
>
>
>
> On Mon, 11 May 2020 at 17:55, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > Panos,
> >
> > What size does the splash images need to be? How are they resized for
> > various device aspect ratios? I make the splash image the same as the
> > first card of the stack and in the past it was easy to make them
> > match. I could not find anything in the docs or release notes. There
> > used to be an image for each device. Now there is only 3 for all
> > devices. Actually there is 6 three light three dark but only three for
> > any mode. How is this going to work?
> >
> > Ralph DiMola
> > IT Director
> > Evergreen Information Services
> > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On
> > Behalf Of panagiotis merakos via use-livecode
> > Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 9:00 AM
> > To: How to use LiveCode
> > Cc: panagiotis merakos
> > Subject: [ANN] Release 9.6.0 RC-1
> >
> > Dear list members,
> >
> > We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 9.6.0 RC-1.
> >
> >
> > Getting the Release
> > ===================
> > You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ or
> > via the automatic updater.
> >
> >
> > Release Contents
> > ================
> > LiveCode 9.6.0 RC-1 comes with more than 30 changes, including:
> >
> > New Features
> >   - Support for Storyboard launch images and backgrounds on iOS
> >   - Support for using the flash as a torch in the Android Barcode Scanner
> >   - Support for building with Xcode 11.4, using the iOS 13.4 SDK
> >   - New tsNet and mergExt builds, built with the iOS 13.4 SDK
> >
> > Bug Fixes:
> >   - Improvements in the text-to-speech library
> >   - Improvements in the iOS native browser
> >   - Improvements in the camera control object
> >   - Significant performance improvement when saving stacks on Windows
> >   - Improvements in the Windows FFI in LCB
> >
> > For the full list of all fixes, updates and enhancements please see
> > the release notes:
> > http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/9_6_0/LiveCodeNotes-9_6_0_rc_1.
> > pdf
> >
> >
> > Known issues
> > ============
> > - The Browser widget's native layer is not shown in some Linux distros
> > with Cinnamon window manager.
> > - The use of the Browser widget is not supported on Ubuntu 18.04 64
> > bit LTS yet.
> >
> >
> > Required Software
> > =================
> > To build iOS apps with LiveCode you must have the appropriate versions
> > of Xcode as follows:
> >
> >   - macOS 10.13.4: Xcode 10.1 - LiveCode builds iOS apps using the iOS
> > 12.1 SDK
> >   - macOS 10.14.4: Xcode 11.3.x - LiveCode builds iOS apps using the
> > iOS
> > 13.2 SDK
> >   - macOS 10.15.2: Xcode 11.4.x - LiveCode builds iOS apps using the
> > iOS
> > 13.4 SDK
> >
> > There is a full list of working LiveCode/macOS/Xcode combinations here:
> > https://livecode.com/docs/9-5-0/faq/faq/
> >
> > Note: Whilst we endeavour to release updated versions of LiveCode
> > supporting the latest Xcode/iOS SDKs as quickly as possible; we
> > strongly recommend disabling automatic update of Xcode or downloading
> > the specific version of Xcode required directly from the Apple
> > developer portal and installing it separately.
> >
> > Important: From the end of June 2020, Apple will only be accepting
> > apps built using iOS13 SDKs. This means that, if you wish to submit
> > apps to the AppStore you will have to be running at least macOS 10.14
> > in order to be able to install the necessary version of Xcode.
> >
> >
> > Feedback
> > ========
> > Please report any bugs encountered on our quality center at
> > http://quality.livecode.com/
> >
> > We have a forum available for discussing LiveCode Builder at
> > http://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=93
> >
> >
> > Have fun!
> > The LiveCode Team
> > --
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription
> > preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From toolbook at kestner.de  Mon May 11 11:58:22 2020
From: toolbook at kestner.de (toolbook at kestner.de)
Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 17:58:22 +0200
Subject: AW: Externals are not loaded
In-Reply-To: <898269B5-121A-4E9D-AA17-9BC6D2B97648@m-r-d.de>
References: <013901d6277b$99f99660$cdecc320$@kestner.de>
 <2598B0A5-16C0-4065-BBE4-E8BFEECA2A99@m-r-d.de>
 <898269B5-121A-4E9D-AA17-9BC6D2B97648@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <016901d627ad$00acd300$02067900$@kestner.de>

Hi Matthias,
thank you for bringing me on the right track. I forgot myself, that I
changed my computer since last using this and so my LC preference file
entries and my 3rd party externals were not in place.

BUT I am still struggling. I have on Win10 in my personal documents
folder/My LiveCode/Externals/ my 3rd party externals with the propper
externals.txt.
Now, LC 9.0.2 pics my 3rd party externals up and show them to me, when
asking for: "put the externalPackages of stack "home"
But LC 9.5.1 ignores my 3rd party externals. Shouldn't all LC 9 versions
read the same prefernces file and pick the same externals? Or has anything
changed in LC 9.5 with handling of externals?

Any idea?
Tiemo


-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> Im Auftrag von
matthias rebbe via use-livecode
Gesendet: Montag, 11. Mai 2020 12:28
An: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Cc: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de
Betreff: Re: Externals are not loaded

Sorry, i forgot to add the link. 

http://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/6347-how-to-install-3rd-party-externals
-for-use-in-the-ide-and-standalone-builder


-
Matthias Rebbe
Life Is Too Short For Boring Code

> Am 11.05.2020 um 12:22 schrieb matthias rebbe via use-livecode
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Tiemo,
> 
> are you using  the  externals that are included with LC or 3rd party ones?
> 
> If the latter, did you  check the following lesson already about How to
use 3rd party Externals?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Matthias
> 
> -
> Matthias Rebbe
> Life Is Too Short For Boring Code
> 
>> Am 11.05.2020 um 12:04 schrieb Tiemo via use-livecode
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> Hello,
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I haven't worked on this old program for a year or more, last with LC
9.0.2.
>> It uses several externals on Windows, which are located in the standard"
>> folder "Externals" within the stack folder.
>> 
>> When I now open it with LC 9.0.2 or 9.5.1 the externalPackages of the 
>> stack is empty.
>> 
>> I searched the docs, but can't remember, if and how I have to assign 
>> the externals  or the path of the externals to my stack or even why 
>> LC doesn't loads my externals anymore, though I haven't changed 
>> anything on this stack since last year, where everything worked fine
until the last use.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Can anyone shed some light on the handling of externals for me, what 
>> could have happened here?
>> 
>> Thank you
>> 
>> Tiemo
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Mon May 11 12:08:41 2020
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 18:08:41 +0200
Subject: Externals are not loaded
In-Reply-To: <016901d627ad$00acd300$02067900$@kestner.de>
References: <013901d6277b$99f99660$cdecc320$@kestner.de>
 <2598B0A5-16C0-4065-BBE4-E8BFEECA2A99@m-r-d.de>
 <898269B5-121A-4E9D-AA17-9BC6D2B97648@m-r-d.de>
 <016901d627ad$00acd300$02067900$@kestner.de>
Message-ID: <C88BD3F8-0562-4AC3-A359-F200EB64F17D@m-r-d.de>

I am not sure if this might be the problem, but what version of 9.5.1 are you running? 32 or 64 bit?

If 64bit, maybe there is a problem using 32bit externals on a 64bit LC IDE and you should try the 32bit version of 9.5.1. But that?s just a guess.

I would say, Panos or Mark Waddingham could answer this better.

Matthias


-
Matthias Rebbe
Life Is Too Short For Boring Code

> Am 11.05.2020 um 17:58 schrieb Tiemo via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi Matthias,
> thank you for bringing me on the right track. I forgot myself, that I
> changed my computer since last using this and so my LC preference file
> entries and my 3rd party externals were not in place.
> 
> BUT I am still struggling. I have on Win10 in my personal documents
> folder/My LiveCode/Externals/ my 3rd party externals with the propper
> externals.txt.
> Now, LC 9.0.2 pics my 3rd party externals up and show them to me, when
> asking for: "put the externalPackages of stack "home"
> But LC 9.5.1 ignores my 3rd party externals. Shouldn't all LC 9 versions
> read the same prefernces file and pick the same externals? Or has anything
> changed in LC 9.5 with handling of externals?
> 
> Any idea?
> Tiemo
> 
> 
> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> Im Auftrag von
> matthias rebbe via use-livecode
> Gesendet: Montag, 11. Mai 2020 12:28
> An: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Cc: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de
> Betreff: Re: Externals are not loaded
> 
> Sorry, i forgot to add the link. 
> 
> http://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/6347-how-to-install-3rd-party-externals
> -for-use-in-the-ide-and-standalone-builder
> 
> 
> -
> Matthias Rebbe
> Life Is Too Short For Boring Code
> 
>> Am 11.05.2020 um 12:22 schrieb matthias rebbe via use-livecode
> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> Tiemo,
>> 
>> are you using  the  externals that are included with LC or 3rd party ones?
>> 
>> If the latter, did you  check the following lesson already about How to
> use 3rd party Externals?
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> Matthias
>> 
>> -
>> Matthias Rebbe
>> Life Is Too Short For Boring Code
>> 
>>> Am 11.05.2020 um 12:04 schrieb Tiemo via use-livecode
> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>> 
>>> Hello,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I haven't worked on this old program for a year or more, last with LC
> 9.0.2.
>>> It uses several externals on Windows, which are located in the standard"
>>> folder "Externals" within the stack folder.
>>> 
>>> When I now open it with LC 9.0.2 or 9.5.1 the externalPackages of the 
>>> stack is empty.
>>> 
>>> I searched the docs, but can't remember, if and how I have to assign 
>>> the externals  or the path of the externals to my stack or even why 
>>> LC doesn't loads my externals anymore, though I haven't changed 
>>> anything on this stack since last year, where everything worked fine
> until the last use.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Can anyone shed some light on the handling of externals for me, what 
>>> could have happened here?
>>> 
>>> Thank you
>>> 
>>> Tiemo
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From benr_mc at cogapp.com  Mon May 11 12:11:11 2020
From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein)
Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 17:11:11 +0100
Subject: Small and strange problem
In-Reply-To: <2175FE2F-58A1-4EFA-AAC1-073FFE98027A@all-auctions.com>
References: <5149994.244134.1589185448424.JavaMail.administrator@n4.nabble.com>
 <2175FE2F-58A1-4EFA-AAC1-073FFE98027A@all-auctions.com>
Message-ID: <86e4d02f-58fc-05aa-8c69-5cd1ed8253cb@cogapp.com>

And re this part:

 >> Interestingly this
 >>
 >> on mouseUp pMouseButton
 >>   try
 >>     put (tMins/60) into tMins
 >>   catch tError
 >>     if tError then answer "An Error Occurred;"  && tError & return & 
"tMins =" && tMins
 >>   end try
 >> end mouseUp
 >>
 >> does NOT through an error or a catch error message

You're not seeing that there was an error thrown because 'tError' would be set 
to the error message; the code above is testing for it being true, before 
deciding to display the message. But it won't be true it, it will be an 
expression of the error. If you removed "if tError then", so always execute 
the answer statement in the catch section, you should see the error message.

HTH,

Ben


On 11/05/2020 15:31, Rick Harrison via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi Andy,
> 
> Yes, tMins has to have a value or the statement makes no sense because LC has no
> context for what you are trying to do.  LC doesn?t know if tMins is a string or something else.
> 
> Rick
> 
> 
>> On May 11, 2020, at 4:24 AM, AndyP via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>> I seem to have my posts dropped at the moment hence this,
>>
>> I'm seeing the same error
>>
>> with
>>
>> on mouseUp pMouseButton
>>   put (tMins/60) into tMins
>>   answer tMins
>> end mouseUp
>>
>> button "Button": execution error at line 2 (Operators /: error in left operand), char 1
>>
>> Interestingly this
>>
>> on mouseUp pMouseButton
>>   try
>>     put (tMins/60) into tMins
>>   catch tError
>>     if tError then answer "An Error Occurred;"  && tError & return & "tMins =" && tMins
>>   end try
>> end mouseUp
>>
>> does NOT through an error or a catch error message
>>
>>
>> If however tMins is initialized then all works as expected
>>
>> on mouseUp pMouseButton
>>   put 20 into tMins
>>   put (tMins/60) into tMins
>>   answer tMins
>> end mouseUp
>>
>> ???



From toolbook at kestner.de  Mon May 11 12:34:25 2020
From: toolbook at kestner.de (toolbook at kestner.de)
Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 18:34:25 +0200
Subject: AW: Externals are not loaded
In-Reply-To: <C88BD3F8-0562-4AC3-A359-F200EB64F17D@m-r-d.de>
References: <013901d6277b$99f99660$cdecc320$@kestner.de>
 <2598B0A5-16C0-4065-BBE4-E8BFEECA2A99@m-r-d.de>
 <898269B5-121A-4E9D-AA17-9BC6D2B97648@m-r-d.de>
 <016901d627ad$00acd300$02067900$@kestner.de>
 <C88BD3F8-0562-4AC3-A359-F200EB64F17D@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <016e01d627b2$09174430$1b45cc90$@kestner.de>

You got it!
I have installed LC 9.0.2 32Bit and LC 9.5.1 64 Bit ...
Obviously I have been off for too long and not anymore in the subject.

Ok, last externals question. In my old builds I found a revsecurity.dll and have no idea what I have used it for and can't find it anymore in the current LC setups. Can anybody  confirm that this external today is obsolete?

Thank you
Tiemo

-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> Im Auftrag von matthias rebbe via use-livecode
Gesendet: Montag, 11. Mai 2020 18:09
An: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Cc: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de
Betreff: Re: Externals are not loaded

I am not sure if this might be the problem, but what version of 9.5.1 are you running? 32 or 64 bit?

If 64bit, maybe there is a problem using 32bit externals on a 64bit LC IDE and you should try the 32bit version of 9.5.1. But that?s just a guess.

I would say, Panos or Mark Waddingham could answer this better.

Matthias


-
Matthias Rebbe
Life Is Too Short For Boring Code

> Am 11.05.2020 um 17:58 schrieb Tiemo via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi Matthias,
> thank you for bringing me on the right track. I forgot myself, that I 
> changed my computer since last using this and so my LC preference file 
> entries and my 3rd party externals were not in place.
> 
> BUT I am still struggling. I have on Win10 in my personal documents 
> folder/My LiveCode/Externals/ my 3rd party externals with the propper 
> externals.txt.
> Now, LC 9.0.2 pics my 3rd party externals up and show them to me, when 
> asking for: "put the externalPackages of stack "home"
> But LC 9.5.1 ignores my 3rd party externals. Shouldn't all LC 9 
> versions read the same prefernces file and pick the same externals? Or 
> has anything changed in LC 9.5 with handling of externals?
> 
> Any idea?
> Tiemo
> 
> 
> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> Im Auftrag 
> von matthias rebbe via use-livecode
> Gesendet: Montag, 11. Mai 2020 12:28
> An: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Cc: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de
> Betreff: Re: Externals are not loaded
> 
> Sorry, i forgot to add the link. 
> 
> http://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/6347-how-to-install-3rd-party-ext
> ernals -for-use-in-the-ide-and-standalone-builder
> 
> 
> -
> Matthias Rebbe
> Life Is Too Short For Boring Code
> 
>> Am 11.05.2020 um 12:22 schrieb matthias rebbe via use-livecode
> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> Tiemo,
>> 
>> are you using  the  externals that are included with LC or 3rd party ones?
>> 
>> If the latter, did you  check the following lesson already about How 
>> to
> use 3rd party Externals?
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> Matthias
>> 
>> -
>> Matthias Rebbe
>> Life Is Too Short For Boring Code
>> 
>>> Am 11.05.2020 um 12:04 schrieb Tiemo via use-livecode
> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>> 
>>> Hello,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I haven't worked on this old program for a year or more, last with 
>>> LC
> 9.0.2.
>>> It uses several externals on Windows, which are located in the standard"
>>> folder "Externals" within the stack folder.
>>> 
>>> When I now open it with LC 9.0.2 or 9.5.1 the externalPackages of 
>>> the stack is empty.
>>> 
>>> I searched the docs, but can't remember, if and how I have to assign 
>>> the externals  or the path of the externals to my stack or even why 
>>> LC doesn't loads my externals anymore, though I haven't changed 
>>> anything on this stack since last year, where everything worked fine
> until the last use.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Can anyone shed some light on the handling of externals for me, what 
>>> could have happened here?
>>> 
>>> Thank you
>>> 
>>> Tiemo
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


_______________________________________________
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use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From livfoss at mac.com  Mon May 11 13:18:32 2020
From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel)
Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 19:18:32 +0200
Subject: Small and strange problem
In-Reply-To: <2175FE2F-58A1-4EFA-AAC1-073FFE98027A@all-auctions.com>
References: <5149994.244134.1589185448424.JavaMail.administrator@n4.nabble.com>
 <2175FE2F-58A1-4EFA-AAC1-073FFE98027A@all-auctions.com>
Message-ID: <63643173-C070-4443-B53D-13D9B48C759F@mac.com>

I set this hare running initially. I really do think there is a bug, because the thing works when stepped through but not if it?s allowed to run without interruption. In the stepped-through activity it?s easy to see that tMins does have a value. In my example it?s 31, or maybe it?s a string of which the visible part is ?31?. But the fact remains the script behaves in two different ways, at least on my computer.

As I tiny bit of background, the script tries to parse a string that represents a longitude, copied from a web site. It certainly has some weird characters in it, but I thought I?d got round then. FWIW, the string is 

004??31??50??W

I am going to report it to the mother ship

Graham

> On 11 May 2020, at 16:31, Rick Harrison via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Andy,
> 
> Yes, tMins has to have a value or the statement makes no sense because LC has no
> context for what you are trying to do.  LC doesn?t know if tMins is a string or something else.
> 
> Rick
> 
> 
>> On May 11, 2020, at 4:24 AM, AndyP via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I seem to have my posts dropped at the moment hence this,
>> 
>> I'm seeing the same error
>> 
>> with 
>> 
>> on mouseUp pMouseButton
>> put (tMins/60) into tMins
>> answer tMins
>> end mouseUp
>> 
>> button "Button": execution error at line 2 (Operators /: error in left operand), char 1
>> 
>> Interestingly this
>> 
>> on mouseUp pMouseButton
>> try
>>   put (tMins/60) into tMins
>> catch tError
>>   if tError then answer "An Error Occurred;"  && tError & return & "tMins =" && tMins
>> end try
>> end mouseUp
>> 
>> does NOT through an error or a catch error message
>> 
>> 
>> If however tMins is initialized then all works as expected
>> 
>> on mouseUp pMouseButton
>> put 20 into tMins
>> put (tMins/60) into tMins
>> answer tMins
>> end mouseUp
>> 
>> ???
>> 
>> 
>> _____________________________________
>> Sent from http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From mark at livecode.com  Mon May 11 13:37:58 2020
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 18:37:58 +0100
Subject: Small and strange problem
In-Reply-To: <63643173-C070-4443-B53D-13D9B48C759F@mac.com>
References: <5149994.244134.1589185448424.JavaMail.administrator@n4.nabble.com>
 <2175FE2F-58A1-4EFA-AAC1-073FFE98027A@all-auctions.com>
 <63643173-C070-4443-B53D-13D9B48C759F@mac.com>
Message-ID: <af20c309ff5441ef4970f07d327fea13@livecode.com>

On 2020-05-11 18:18, Graham Samuel via use-livecode wrote:
> As I tiny bit of background, the script tries to parse a string that
> represents a longitude, copied from a web site. It certainly has some
> weird characters in it, but I thought I?d got round then. FWIW, the
> string is
> 
> 004??31??50??W
> 
> I am going to report it to the mother ship

I agree there is something odd going on if in the debugger tMins has 31 
as the value but when run the script outside of the debugger you get an 
error.

What is the code before it in the handler? (Indeed what is the code for 
the whole handler!)

The tMins var is presumably local, and so must be being initialized with 
a value somewhere when running in the debugger; outside of the debugger 
the error you are getting is because tMins has value "tMins" which is 
not a number until it is initialized (as its an unquoted literal at that 
point - as I'm guessing you have explicitVariables/VariableChecking 
turned off).

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps



From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Mon May 11 14:27:12 2020
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 20:27:12 +0200
Subject: Externals are not loaded
In-Reply-To: <016e01d627b2$09174430$1b45cc90$@kestner.de>
References: <013901d6277b$99f99660$cdecc320$@kestner.de>
 <2598B0A5-16C0-4065-BBE4-E8BFEECA2A99@m-r-d.de>
 <898269B5-121A-4E9D-AA17-9BC6D2B97648@m-r-d.de>
 <016901d627ad$00acd300$02067900$@kestner.de>
 <C88BD3F8-0562-4AC3-A359-F200EB64F17D@m-r-d.de>
 <016e01d627b2$09174430$1b45cc90$@kestner.de>
Message-ID: <A86016EF-651F-4E4B-A949-B86F65AF1A24@m-r-d.de>

Tiemo, you're getting old... ;)

Six years ago...
http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/where-does-revsecurity-dll-comes-from-td4691453.html


Regards,

Matthias

-
Matthias Rebbe
Life Is Too Short For Boring Code

> Am 11.05.2020 um 18:34 schrieb Tiemo via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> You got it!
> I have installed LC 9.0.2 32Bit and LC 9.5.1 64 Bit ...
> Obviously I have been off for too long and not anymore in the subject.
> 
> Ok, last externals question. In my old builds I found a revsecurity.dll and have no idea what I have used it for and can't find it anymore in the current LC setups. Can anybody  confirm that this external today is obsolete?
> 
> Thank you
> Tiemo
> 
> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> Im Auftrag von matthias rebbe via use-livecode
> Gesendet: Montag, 11. Mai 2020 18:09
> An: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Cc: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de
> Betreff: Re: Externals are not loaded
> 
> I am not sure if this might be the problem, but what version of 9.5.1 are you running? 32 or 64 bit?
> 
> If 64bit, maybe there is a problem using 32bit externals on a 64bit LC IDE and you should try the 32bit version of 9.5.1. But that?s just a guess.
> 
> I would say, Panos or Mark Waddingham could answer this better.
> 
> Matthias
> 
> 
> -
> Matthias Rebbe
> Life Is Too Short For Boring Code
> 
>> Am 11.05.2020 um 17:58 schrieb Tiemo via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> Hi Matthias,
>> thank you for bringing me on the right track. I forgot myself, that I 
>> changed my computer since last using this and so my LC preference file 
>> entries and my 3rd party externals were not in place.
>> 
>> BUT I am still struggling. I have on Win10 in my personal documents 
>> folder/My LiveCode/Externals/ my 3rd party externals with the propper 
>> externals.txt.
>> Now, LC 9.0.2 pics my 3rd party externals up and show them to me, when 
>> asking for: "put the externalPackages of stack "home"
>> But LC 9.5.1 ignores my 3rd party externals. Shouldn't all LC 9 
>> versions read the same prefernces file and pick the same externals? Or 
>> has anything changed in LC 9.5 with handling of externals?
>> 
>> Any idea?
>> Tiemo
>> 
>> 
>> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
>> Von: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> Im Auftrag 
>> von matthias rebbe via use-livecode
>> Gesendet: Montag, 11. Mai 2020 12:28
>> An: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
>> Cc: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de
>> Betreff: Re: Externals are not loaded
>> 
>> Sorry, i forgot to add the link. 
>> 
>> http://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/6347-how-to-install-3rd-party-ext
>> ernals -for-use-in-the-ide-and-standalone-builder
>> 
>> 
>> -
>> Matthias Rebbe
>> Life Is Too Short For Boring Code
>> 
>>> Am 11.05.2020 um 12:22 schrieb matthias rebbe via use-livecode
>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>> 
>>> Tiemo,
>>> 
>>> are you using  the  externals that are included with LC or 3rd party ones?
>>> 
>>> If the latter, did you  check the following lesson already about How 
>>> to
>> use 3rd party Externals?
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> 
>>> Matthias
>>> 
>>> -
>>> Matthias Rebbe
>>> Life Is Too Short For Boring Code
>>> 
>>>> Am 11.05.2020 um 12:04 schrieb Tiemo via use-livecode
>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>>> 
>>>> Hello,
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I haven't worked on this old program for a year or more, last with 
>>>> LC
>> 9.0.2.
>>>> It uses several externals on Windows, which are located in the standard"
>>>> folder "Externals" within the stack folder.
>>>> 
>>>> When I now open it with LC 9.0.2 or 9.5.1 the externalPackages of 
>>>> the stack is empty.
>>>> 
>>>> I searched the docs, but can't remember, if and how I have to assign 
>>>> the externals  or the path of the externals to my stack or even why 
>>>> LC doesn't loads my externals anymore, though I haven't changed 
>>>> anything on this stack since last year, where everything worked fine
>> until the last use.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Can anyone shed some light on the handling of externals for me, what 
>>>> could have happened here?
>>>> 
>>>> Thank you
>>>> 
>>>> Tiemo
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription
>> preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
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From prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org  Mon May 11 14:54:55 2020
From: prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org (prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org)
Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 11:54:55 -0700
Subject: [ANN] Release 9.6.0 RC-1
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq8=wG-amx+gEh7nvohr=t+Kcb=Ka=uHXH7gRrOX2nXRhA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+JfEq8=wG-amx+gEh7nvohr=t+Kcb=Ka=uHXH7gRrOX2nXRhA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3F3A8EF5-2306-4CB9-B690-194FC37D268A@earthlearningsolutions.org>

Thanks for the update! I?m a bit confused, maybe it?s a typo??

I read:
> Note: Whilst we endeavour to release updated versions of LiveCode
> supporting the latest Xcode/iOS SDKs as quickly as possible; we strongly
> recommend disabling automatic update of Xcode or downloading the specific
> version of Xcode required directly from the Apple developer portal and
> installing it separately.

That means, to me, that I should not enable automatic update of Xcode (I understand that) AND the I should NOT download the specific version of XCode directly from the Apple developer portal. Did you mean that I SHOULD download from the developer portal to get the version of XCode I want? Otherwise, where should I get it? 

Probably it?s an ?across the pond? language difference, but I thought I?d check.

Best,
Bill

William A. Prothero
Santa Barbara, CA. 93105
http://earthlearningsolutions.org/

> On May 11, 2020, at 6:00 AM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Dear list members,
> 
> We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 9.6.0 RC-1.
> 
> 
> Getting the Release
> ===================
> You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ or via
> the automatic updater.
> 
> 
> Release Contents
> ================
> LiveCode 9.6.0 RC-1 comes with more than 30 changes, including:
> 
> New Features
>  - Support for Storyboard launch images and backgrounds on iOS
>  - Support for using the flash as a torch in the Android Barcode Scanner
>  - Support for building with Xcode 11.4, using the iOS 13.4 SDK
>  - New tsNet and mergExt builds, built with the iOS 13.4 SDK
> 
> Bug Fixes:
>  - Improvements in the text-to-speech library
>  - Improvements in the iOS native browser
>  - Improvements in the camera control object
>  - Significant performance improvement when saving stacks on Windows
>  - Improvements in the Windows FFI in LCB
> 
> For the full list of all fixes, updates and enhancements please see the
> release notes:
> http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/9_6_0/LiveCodeNotes-9_6_0_rc_1.pdf
> 
> 
> Known issues
> ============
> - The Browser widget's native layer is not shown in some Linux distros with
> Cinnamon window manager.
> - The use of the Browser widget is not supported on Ubuntu 18.04 64 bit LTS
> yet.
> 
> 
> Required Software
> =================
> To build iOS apps with LiveCode you must have the appropriate versions of
> Xcode as follows:
> 
>  - macOS 10.13.4: Xcode 10.1 - LiveCode builds iOS apps using the iOS 12.1
> SDK
>  - macOS 10.14.4: Xcode 11.3.x - LiveCode builds iOS apps using the iOS
> 13.2 SDK
>  - macOS 10.15.2: Xcode 11.4.x - LiveCode builds iOS apps using the iOS
> 13.4 SDK
> 
> There is a full list of working LiveCode/macOS/Xcode combinations here:
> https://livecode.com/docs/9-5-0/faq/faq/
> 
> Note: Whilst we endeavour to release updated versions of LiveCode
> supporting the latest Xcode/iOS SDKs as quickly as possible; we strongly
> recommend disabling automatic update of Xcode or downloading the specific
> version of Xcode required directly from the Apple developer portal and
> installing it separately.
> 
> Important: From the end of June 2020, Apple will only be accepting apps
> built using iOS13 SDKs. This means that, if you wish to submit apps to the
> AppStore you will have to be running at least macOS 10.14 in order to be
> able to install the necessary version of Xcode.
> 
> 
> Feedback
> ========
> Please report any bugs encountered on our quality center at
> http://quality.livecode.com/
> 
> We have a forum available for discussing LiveCode Builder at
> http://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=93
> 
> 
> Have fun!
> The LiveCode Team
> --
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From dev at porta.ca  Mon May 11 15:00:27 2020
From: dev at porta.ca (Dev)
Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 13:00:27 -0600
Subject: [ANN] Release 9.6.0 RC-1
In-Reply-To: <3F3A8EF5-2306-4CB9-B690-194FC37D268A@earthlearningsolutions.org>
Message-ID: <d4a98ddf-397c-4da6-9a24-20c34e516970@iPad>

      
  

 It?s the semicolon. My eye tripped on that too.   
  

  
Update Xcode yourself via Apple. Best practice seems to recommend keeping the older files in a separate folder.
  

  
  
  

  
  
>   
> On May 11, 2020 at 12:55 PM,  <prothero--- via use-livecode (mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com)>  wrote:
>   
>   
>   
>  Thanks for the update! I?m a bit confused, maybe it?s a typo?? I read:  >  Note: Whilst we endeavour to release updated versions of LiveCode  >  supporting the latest Xcode/iOS SDKs as quickly as possible; we strongly  >  recommend disabling automatic update of Xcode or downloading the specific  >  version of Xcode required directly from the Apple developer portal and  >  installing it separately. That means, to me, that I should not enable automatic update of Xcode (I understand that) AND the I should NOT download the specific version of XCode directly from the Apple developer portal. Did you mean that I SHOULD download from the developer portal to get the version of XCode I want? Otherwise, where should I get it? Probably it?s an ?across the pond? language difference, but I thought I?d check. Best, Bill William A. Prothero Santa Barbara, CA. 93105 http://earthlearningsolutions.org/  >  On May 11, 2020, at 6:00 AM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode  <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>  wrote:  >   >  Dear list members,  >   >  We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 9.6.0 RC-1.  >   >   >  Getting the Release  >  ===================  >  You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ or via  >  the automatic updater.  >   >   >  Release Contents  >  ================  >  LiveCode 9.6.0 RC-1 comes with more than 30 changes, including:  >   >  New Features  >  - Support for Storyboard launch images and backgrounds on iOS  >  - Support for using the flash as a torch in the Android Barcode Scanner  >  - Support for building with Xcode 11.4, using the iOS 13.4 SDK  >  - New tsNet and mergExt builds, built with the iOS 13.4 SDK  >   >  Bug Fixes:  >  - Improvements in the text-to-speech library  >  - Improvements in the iOS native browser  >  - Improvements in the camera control object  >  - Significant performance improvement when saving stacks on Windows  >  - Improvements in the Windows FFI in LCB  >   >  For the full list of all fixes, updates and enhancements please see the  >  release notes:  >  http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/9_6_0/LiveCodeNotes-9_6_0_rc_1.pdf  >   >   >  Known issues  >  ============  >  - The Browser widget's native layer is not shown in some Linux distros with  >  Cinnamon window manager.  >  - The use of the Browser widget is not supported on Ubuntu 18.04 64 bit LTS  >  yet.  >   >   >  Required Software  >  =================  >  To build iOS apps with LiveCode you must have the appropriate versions of  >  Xcode as follows:  >   >  - macOS 10.13.4: Xcode 10.1 - LiveCode builds iOS apps using the iOS 12.1  >  SDK  >  - macOS 10.14.4: Xcode 11.3.x - LiveCode builds iOS apps using the iOS  >  13.2 SDK  >  - macOS 10.15.2: Xcode 11.4.x - LiveCode builds iOS apps using the iOS  >  13.4 SDK  >   >  There is a full list of working LiveCode/macOS/Xcode combinations here:  >  https://livecode.com/docs/9-5-0/faq/faq/  >   >  Note: Whilst we endeavour to release updated versions of LiveCode  >  supporting the latest Xcode/iOS SDKs as quickly as possible; we strongly  >  recommend disabling automatic update of Xcode or downloading the specific  >  version of Xcode required directly from the Apple developer portal and  >  installing it separately.  >   >  Important: From the end of June 2020, Apple will only be accepting apps  >  built using iOS13 SDKs. This means that, if you wish to submit apps to the  >  AppStore you will have to be running at least macOS 10.14 in order to be  >  able to install the necessary version of Xcode.  >   >   >  Feedback  >  ========  >  Please report any bugs encountered on our quality center at  >  http://quality.livecode.com/  >   >  We have a forum available for discussing LiveCode Builder at  >  http://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=93  >   >   >  Have fun!  >  The LiveCode Team  >  --  >  _______________________________________________  >  use-livecode mailing list  >  use-livecode at lists.runrev.com  >  Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:  >  http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode  
>
>   
  
  
     

From merakosp at gmail.com  Mon May 11 15:04:24 2020
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 22:04:24 +0300
Subject: [ANN] Release 9.6.0 RC-1
In-Reply-To: <3F3A8EF5-2306-4CB9-B690-194FC37D268A@earthlearningsolutions.org>
References: <CA+JfEq8=wG-amx+gEh7nvohr=t+Kcb=Ka=uHXH7gRrOX2nXRhA@mail.gmail.com>
 <3F3A8EF5-2306-4CB9-B690-194FC37D268A@earthlearningsolutions.org>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq82Fa6E6+jOtJKRZJChpXweB2qfJbwf1RY_8-TeavvUWQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Bill,

Heh, sorry for the confusion :)

We recommend:

1. Either to disable automatic updates of Xcode, so as to prevent a working
compatible (possibly older) version of Xcode being updated automatically to
a newer version

2. Or to not disable automatic updates of Xcode, but in this case to
download directly the required Xcode version(s) and install them separately
so as they are not affected by automatic updates.

I hope this makes more sense now :)

Kind regards,
Panos
--



On Mon, 11 May 2020 at 21:55, prothero--- via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Thanks for the update! I?m a bit confused, maybe it?s a typo??
>
> I read:
> > Note: Whilst we endeavour to release updated versions of LiveCode
> > supporting the latest Xcode/iOS SDKs as quickly as possible; we strongly
> > recommend disabling automatic update of Xcode or downloading the specific
> > version of Xcode required directly from the Apple developer portal and
> > installing it separately.
>
> That means, to me, that I should not enable automatic update of Xcode (I
> understand that) AND the I should NOT download the specific version of
> XCode directly from the Apple developer portal. Did you mean that I SHOULD
> download from the developer portal to get the version of XCode I want?
> Otherwise, where should I get it?
>
> Probably it?s an ?across the pond? language difference, but I thought I?d
> check.
>
> Best,
> Bill
>
> William A. Prothero
> Santa Barbara, CA. 93105
> http://earthlearningsolutions.org/
>
> > On May 11, 2020, at 6:00 AM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Dear list members,
> >
> > We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 9.6.0 RC-1.
> >
> >
> > Getting the Release
> > ===================
> > You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ or
> via
> > the automatic updater.
> >
> >
> > Release Contents
> > ================
> > LiveCode 9.6.0 RC-1 comes with more than 30 changes, including:
> >
> > New Features
> >  - Support for Storyboard launch images and backgrounds on iOS
> >  - Support for using the flash as a torch in the Android Barcode Scanner
> >  - Support for building with Xcode 11.4, using the iOS 13.4 SDK
> >  - New tsNet and mergExt builds, built with the iOS 13.4 SDK
> >
> > Bug Fixes:
> >  - Improvements in the text-to-speech library
> >  - Improvements in the iOS native browser
> >  - Improvements in the camera control object
> >  - Significant performance improvement when saving stacks on Windows
> >  - Improvements in the Windows FFI in LCB
> >
> > For the full list of all fixes, updates and enhancements please see the
> > release notes:
> >
> http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/9_6_0/LiveCodeNotes-9_6_0_rc_1.pdf
> >
> >
> > Known issues
> > ============
> > - The Browser widget's native layer is not shown in some Linux distros
> with
> > Cinnamon window manager.
> > - The use of the Browser widget is not supported on Ubuntu 18.04 64 bit
> LTS
> > yet.
> >
> >
> > Required Software
> > =================
> > To build iOS apps with LiveCode you must have the appropriate versions of
> > Xcode as follows:
> >
> >  - macOS 10.13.4: Xcode 10.1 - LiveCode builds iOS apps using the iOS
> 12.1
> > SDK
> >  - macOS 10.14.4: Xcode 11.3.x - LiveCode builds iOS apps using the iOS
> > 13.2 SDK
> >  - macOS 10.15.2: Xcode 11.4.x - LiveCode builds iOS apps using the iOS
> > 13.4 SDK
> >
> > There is a full list of working LiveCode/macOS/Xcode combinations here:
> > https://livecode.com/docs/9-5-0/faq/faq/
> >
> > Note: Whilst we endeavour to release updated versions of LiveCode
> > supporting the latest Xcode/iOS SDKs as quickly as possible; we strongly
> > recommend disabling automatic update of Xcode or downloading the specific
> > version of Xcode required directly from the Apple developer portal and
> > installing it separately.
> >
> > Important: From the end of June 2020, Apple will only be accepting apps
> > built using iOS13 SDKs. This means that, if you wish to submit apps to
> the
> > AppStore you will have to be running at least macOS 10.14 in order to be
> > able to install the necessary version of Xcode.
> >
> >
> > Feedback
> > ========
> > Please report any bugs encountered on our quality center at
> > http://quality.livecode.com/
> >
> > We have a forum available for discussing LiveCode Builder at
> > http://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=93
> >
> >
> > Have fun!
> > The LiveCode Team
> > --
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Mon May 11 15:04:58 2020
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 21:04:58 +0200
Subject: [ANN] Release 9.6.0 RC-1
In-Reply-To: <3F3A8EF5-2306-4CB9-B690-194FC37D268A@earthlearningsolutions.org>
References: <CA+JfEq8=wG-amx+gEh7nvohr=t+Kcb=Ka=uHXH7gRrOX2nXRhA@mail.gmail.com>
 <3F3A8EF5-2306-4CB9-B690-194FC37D268A@earthlearningsolutions.org>
Message-ID: <55C55C50-6844-4116-A0FB-B59EDC1DC6A9@m-r-d.de>

> we strongly
> recommend disabling automatic update of Xcode or downloading the specific
> version of Xcode required directly from the Apple developer portal and
> installing it separately.


For me as a non-native. English speaker  it sounds like this

They recommend either "...disabling the automatic update..." or  "downloading the specific..."

-
Matthias Rebbe
Life Is Too Short For Boring Code

> Am 11.05.2020 um 20:54 schrieb prothero--- via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
>> we strongly
>> recommend disabling automatic update of Xcode or downloading the specific
>> version of Xcode required directly from the Apple developer portal and
>> installing it separately.



From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Mon May 11 15:09:23 2020
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 21:09:23 +0200
Subject: Externals are not loaded
In-Reply-To: <A86016EF-651F-4E4B-A949-B86F65AF1A24@m-r-d.de>
References: <013901d6277b$99f99660$cdecc320$@kestner.de>
 <2598B0A5-16C0-4065-BBE4-E8BFEECA2A99@m-r-d.de>
 <898269B5-121A-4E9D-AA17-9BC6D2B97648@m-r-d.de>
 <016901d627ad$00acd300$02067900$@kestner.de>
 <C88BD3F8-0562-4AC3-A359-F200EB64F17D@m-r-d.de>
 <016e01d627b2$09174430$1b45cc90$@kestner.de>
 <A86016EF-651F-4E4B-A949-B86F65AF1A24@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <E1F45605-E52B-410D-9BD4-53B8B81CB4B5@m-r-d.de>

Tiemo,

what i forgot.

Revsecurity.dll is still needed. At least it is still in the runtime folders. There are a 32 and 64bit versions available.
You should use those instead of the one that is in your stacks folder.

-
Matthias Rebbe
Life Is Too Short For Boring Code

> Am 11.05.2020 um 20:27 schrieb matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Tiemo, you're getting old... ;)
> 
> Six years ago...
> http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/where-does-revsecurity-dll-comes-from-td4691453.html
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Matthias
> 
> -
> Matthias Rebbe
> Life Is Too Short For Boring Code
> 
>> Am 11.05.2020 um 18:34 schrieb Tiemo via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> You got it!
>> I have installed LC 9.0.2 32Bit and LC 9.5.1 64 Bit ...
>> Obviously I have been off for too long and not anymore in the subject.
>> 
>> Ok, last externals question. In my old builds I found a revsecurity.dll and have no idea what I have used it for and can't find it anymore in the current LC setups. Can anybody  confirm that this external today is obsolete?
>> 
>> Thank you
>> Tiemo
>> 
>> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
>> Von: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> Im Auftrag von matthias rebbe via use-livecode
>> Gesendet: Montag, 11. Mai 2020 18:09
>> An: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
>> Cc: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de
>> Betreff: Re: Externals are not loaded
>> 
>> I am not sure if this might be the problem, but what version of 9.5.1 are you running? 32 or 64 bit?
>> 
>> If 64bit, maybe there is a problem using 32bit externals on a 64bit LC IDE and you should try the 32bit version of 9.5.1. But that?s just a guess.
>> 
>> I would say, Panos or Mark Waddingham could answer this better.
>> 
>> Matthias
>> 
>> 
>> -
>> Matthias Rebbe
>> Life Is Too Short For Boring Code
>> 
>>> Am 11.05.2020 um 17:58 schrieb Tiemo via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>> 
>>> Hi Matthias,
>>> thank you for bringing me on the right track. I forgot myself, that I 
>>> changed my computer since last using this and so my LC preference file 
>>> entries and my 3rd party externals were not in place.
>>> 
>>> BUT I am still struggling. I have on Win10 in my personal documents 
>>> folder/My LiveCode/Externals/ my 3rd party externals with the propper 
>>> externals.txt.
>>> Now, LC 9.0.2 pics my 3rd party externals up and show them to me, when 
>>> asking for: "put the externalPackages of stack "home"
>>> But LC 9.5.1 ignores my 3rd party externals. Shouldn't all LC 9 
>>> versions read the same prefernces file and pick the same externals? Or 
>>> has anything changed in LC 9.5 with handling of externals?
>>> 
>>> Any idea?
>>> Tiemo
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
>>> Von: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> Im Auftrag 
>>> von matthias rebbe via use-livecode
>>> Gesendet: Montag, 11. Mai 2020 12:28
>>> An: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
>>> Cc: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de
>>> Betreff: Re: Externals are not loaded
>>> 
>>> Sorry, i forgot to add the link. 
>>> 
>>> http://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/6347-how-to-install-3rd-party-ext
>>> ernals -for-use-in-the-ide-and-standalone-builder
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -
>>> Matthias Rebbe
>>> Life Is Too Short For Boring Code
>>> 
>>>> Am 11.05.2020 um 12:22 schrieb matthias rebbe via use-livecode
>>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>>> 
>>>> Tiemo,
>>>> 
>>>> are you using  the  externals that are included with LC or 3rd party ones?
>>>> 
>>>> If the latter, did you  check the following lesson already about How 
>>>> to
>>> use 3rd party Externals?
>>>> 
>>>> Regards,
>>>> 
>>>> Matthias
>>>> 
>>>> -
>>>> Matthias Rebbe
>>>> Life Is Too Short For Boring Code
>>>> 
>>>>> Am 11.05.2020 um 12:04 schrieb Tiemo via use-livecode
>>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> I haven't worked on this old program for a year or more, last with 
>>>>> LC
>>> 9.0.2.
>>>>> It uses several externals on Windows, which are located in the standard"
>>>>> folder "Externals" within the stack folder.
>>>>> 
>>>>> When I now open it with LC 9.0.2 or 9.5.1 the externalPackages of 
>>>>> the stack is empty.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I searched the docs, but can't remember, if and how I have to assign 
>>>>> the externals  or the path of the externals to my stack or even why 
>>>>> LC doesn't loads my externals anymore, though I haven't changed 
>>>>> anything on this stack since last year, where everything worked fine
>>> until the last use.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Can anyone shed some light on the handling of externals for me, what 
>>>>> could have happened here?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thank you
>>>>> 
>>>>> Tiemo
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>> subscription
>>> preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Mon May 11 16:14:31 2020
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 16:14:31 -0400
Subject: [ANN] Release 9.6.0 RC-1
In-Reply-To: <3F3A8EF5-2306-4CB9-B690-194FC37D268A@earthlearningsolutions.org>
References: <CA+JfEq8=wG-amx+gEh7nvohr=t+Kcb=Ka=uHXH7gRrOX2nXRhA@mail.gmail.com>
 <3F3A8EF5-2306-4CB9-B690-194FC37D268A@earthlearningsolutions.org>
Message-ID: <008f01d627d0$cab9e6b0$602db410$@net>

What has worked for me for 8 years is to keep all Xcode versions in a separate folder. This includes the most recent one. I always download Xcode from the Apple "More Versions" page. This link is on the main download page. All of my Xcode versions are renamed to Xcode_x.x.x.app. I do not have any Xcode versions in the Applications folder nor any named Xcode.app. And I never never use the app store to download new versions.

There may be other ways of doing this but this method has never failed me.

PS: Don?t forget to set your build tools via terminal.
View Xcode path: sudo xcode-select --print-path
Set Xcode path: sudo xcode-select -switch <path/to/>Xcode_x.x.x.app

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net


-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of prothero--- via use-livecode
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 2:55 PM
To: JJS via use-livecode
Cc: prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org
Subject: Re: [ANN] Release 9.6.0 RC-1

Thanks for the update! I?m a bit confused, maybe it?s a typo??

I read:
> Note: Whilst we endeavour to release updated versions of LiveCode 
> supporting the latest Xcode/iOS SDKs as quickly as possible; we 
> strongly recommend disabling automatic update of Xcode or downloading 
> the specific version of Xcode required directly from the Apple 
> developer portal and installing it separately.

That means, to me, that I should not enable automatic update of Xcode (I understand that) AND the I should NOT download the specific version of XCode directly from the Apple developer portal. Did you mean that I SHOULD download from the developer portal to get the version of XCode I want? Otherwise, where should I get it? 

Probably it?s an ?across the pond? language difference, but I thought I?d check.

Best,
Bill

William A. Prothero
Santa Barbara, CA. 93105
http://earthlearningsolutions.org/

> On May 11, 2020, at 6:00 AM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Dear list members,
> 
> We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 9.6.0 RC-1.
> 
> 
> Getting the Release
> ===================
> You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ or 
> via the automatic updater.
> 
> 
> Release Contents
> ================
> LiveCode 9.6.0 RC-1 comes with more than 30 changes, including:
> 
> New Features
>  - Support for Storyboard launch images and backgrounds on iOS
>  - Support for using the flash as a torch in the Android Barcode 
> Scanner
>  - Support for building with Xcode 11.4, using the iOS 13.4 SDK
>  - New tsNet and mergExt builds, built with the iOS 13.4 SDK
> 
> Bug Fixes:
>  - Improvements in the text-to-speech library
>  - Improvements in the iOS native browser
>  - Improvements in the camera control object
>  - Significant performance improvement when saving stacks on Windows
>  - Improvements in the Windows FFI in LCB
> 
> For the full list of all fixes, updates and enhancements please see 
> the release notes:
> http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/9_6_0/LiveCodeNotes-9_6_0_rc_1.
> pdf
> 
> 
> Known issues
> ============
> - The Browser widget's native layer is not shown in some Linux distros 
> with Cinnamon window manager.
> - The use of the Browser widget is not supported on Ubuntu 18.04 64 
> bit LTS yet.
> 
> 
> Required Software
> =================
> To build iOS apps with LiveCode you must have the appropriate versions 
> of Xcode as follows:
> 
>  - macOS 10.13.4: Xcode 10.1 - LiveCode builds iOS apps using the iOS 
> 12.1 SDK
>  - macOS 10.14.4: Xcode 11.3.x - LiveCode builds iOS apps using the 
> iOS
> 13.2 SDK
>  - macOS 10.15.2: Xcode 11.4.x - LiveCode builds iOS apps using the 
> iOS
> 13.4 SDK
> 
> There is a full list of working LiveCode/macOS/Xcode combinations here:
> https://livecode.com/docs/9-5-0/faq/faq/
> 
> Note: Whilst we endeavour to release updated versions of LiveCode 
> supporting the latest Xcode/iOS SDKs as quickly as possible; we 
> strongly recommend disabling automatic update of Xcode or downloading 
> the specific version of Xcode required directly from the Apple 
> developer portal and installing it separately.
> 
> Important: From the end of June 2020, Apple will only be accepting 
> apps built using iOS13 SDKs. This means that, if you wish to submit 
> apps to the AppStore you will have to be running at least macOS 10.14 
> in order to be able to install the necessary version of Xcode.
> 
> 
> Feedback
> ========
> Please report any bugs encountered on our quality center at 
> http://quality.livecode.com/
> 
> We have a forum available for discussing LiveCode Builder at
> http://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=93
> 
> 
> Have fun!
> The LiveCode Team
> --
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From gwendalwood at cox.net  Mon May 11 16:47:44 2020
From: gwendalwood at cox.net (GEORGE WOOD)
Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 16:47:44 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Enabling "About MyApp"
Message-ID: <1356188370.13648.1589230064799@myemail.cox.net>

How can I activate the "About MyApp" under the Apple menu?


From paul at livecode.org  Mon May 11 17:18:52 2020
From: paul at livecode.org (Paul Hibbert)
Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 14:18:52 -0700
Subject: Small and strange problem
In-Reply-To: <86e4d02f-58fc-05aa-8c69-5cd1ed8253cb@cogapp.com>
References: <5149994.244134.1589185448424.JavaMail.administrator@n4.nabble.com>
 <2175FE2F-58A1-4EFA-AAC1-073FFE98027A@all-auctions.com>
 <86e4d02f-58fc-05aa-8c69-5cd1ed8253cb@cogapp.com>
Message-ID: <53C7D3E8-59BF-4F5E-BE8A-0305CEB17B3E@livecode.org>

Good point Ben, looks like that was my mistake. I don?t remember where I learned to use "if tError then?, but what I forgot was that it should have been testing for a false condition, so ?if not tError then? does show the error when one occurs and skips when no error occurs.

Fixing this returns the following error when tMins contains a non numeric character;
An Error Occurred; 375,5,1
239,5,1
465,5,1
tMins = 31?

These are the corresponding LC Error Codes;
375	Operators /: error in left operand
239	Operators (): error in right operand
465	put: error in expression

So it seems the value passed to tMins may contain invalid character(s) as Graham suspects. However, this doesn?t explain why the original script should behave differently using the debugger and not.

@Graham, can you post the Bug Report Number please?

Paul


> On May 11, 2020, at 09:11, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> And re this part:
> 
> >> Interestingly this
> >>
> >> on mouseUp pMouseButton
> >>   try
> >>     put (tMins/60) into tMins
> >>   catch tError
> >>     if tError then answer "An Error Occurred;"  && tError & return & "tMins =" && tMins
> >>   end try
> >> end mouseUp
> >>
> >> does NOT through an error or a catch error message
> 
> You're not seeing that there was an error thrown because 'tError' would be set to the error message; the code above is testing for it being true, before deciding to display the message. But it won't be true it, it will be an expression of the error. If you removed "if tError then", so always execute the answer statement in the catch section, you should see the error message.
> 
> HTH,
> 
> Ben
> 
> 
> On 11/05/2020 15:31, Rick Harrison via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hi Andy,
>> Yes, tMins has to have a value or the statement makes no sense because LC has no
>> context for what you are trying to do.  LC doesn?t know if tMins is a string or something else.
>> Rick
>>> On May 11, 2020, at 4:24 AM, AndyP via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I seem to have my posts dropped at the moment hence this,
>>> 
>>> I'm seeing the same error
>>> 
>>> with
>>> 
>>> on mouseUp pMouseButton
>>>  put (tMins/60) into tMins
>>>  answer tMins
>>> end mouseUp
>>> 
>>> button "Button": execution error at line 2 (Operators /: error in left operand), char 1
>>> 
>>> Interestingly this
>>> 
>>> on mouseUp pMouseButton
>>>  try
>>>    put (tMins/60) into tMins
>>>  catch tError
>>>    if tError then answer "An Error Occurred;"  && tError & return & "tMins =" && tMins
>>>  end try
>>> end mouseUp
>>> 
>>> does NOT through an error or a catch error message
>>> 
>>> 
>>> If however tMins is initialized then all works as expected
>>> 
>>> on mouseUp pMouseButton
>>>  put 20 into tMins
>>>  put (tMins/60) into tMins
>>>  answer tMins
>>> end mouseUp
>>> 
>>> ???
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From brian at milby7.com  Mon May 11 18:52:50 2020
From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby)
Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 18:52:50 -0400
Subject: [ANN] Release 9.6.0 RC-1
In-Reply-To: <55C55C50-6844-4116-A0FB-B59EDC1DC6A9@m-r-d.de>
References: <CA+JfEq8=wG-amx+gEh7nvohr=t+Kcb=Ka=uHXH7gRrOX2nXRhA@mail.gmail.com>
 <3F3A8EF5-2306-4CB9-B690-194FC37D268A@earthlearningsolutions.org>
 <55C55C50-6844-4116-A0FB-B59EDC1DC6A9@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <CA+yhkRYw9XA7E1-eVF4k=g8B5MOo+ZH8qMAkrieqfBVe31Hf=A@mail.gmail.com>

Here are the 2 options:

1.  Install Xcode from the Apple App Store when the latest Xcode and latest
LiveCode versions are compatible.  Disable automatic updates.  Whenever
Apple updates Xcode, update only if compatible with the current version of
LiveCode that you are using.

2.  Download and install Xcode manually (not from the App Store) and
possibly maintain multiple versions.  Whenever you update LiveCode, install
the matching version of Xcode manually.

I prefer #2 and have a folder for all of the Xcode versions that I have
downloaded.  I never have to worry about my version of Xcode that I use for
building LiveCode apps getting clobbered by an update that isn't compatible.

If you were to start using LiveCode after Apple releases 11.5 and before
LiveCode is updated, you're pretty much stuck with #2 until LiveCode gets
updated.

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 3:05 PM matthias rebbe via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> > we strongly
> > recommend disabling automatic update of Xcode or downloading the specific
> > version of Xcode required directly from the Apple developer portal and
> > installing it separately.
>
>
> For me as a non-native. English speaker  it sounds like this
>
> They recommend either "...disabling the automatic update..." or
> "downloading the specific..."
>
> -
> Matthias Rebbe
> Life Is Too Short For Boring Code
>
>


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon May 11 19:40:35 2020
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 16:40:35 -0700
Subject: Enabling "About MyApp"
In-Reply-To: <1356188370.13648.1589230064799@myemail.cox.net>
References: <1356188370.13648.1589230064799@myemail.cox.net>
Message-ID: <081d3dfa-1d44-d0f7-1d76-f8ea21a87bfc@fourthworld.com>

GEORGE WOOD wrote:

 > How can I activate the "About MyApp" under the Apple menu?

On other OSes the "About" item is usually the last item in the Help 
menu.  If you put your About item there, you'll find that when LC 
automatically translates its menu objects for the Mac menu bar it'll 
move your About item to the application menu.

In fact, a similar thing happens with "Preferences". On most platforms 
it's the last item in the Edit menu, and when you put a "Preferences" 
item there the automatic menu bar change that LC does will put it in the 
application menu as well, below About.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com




From monte at appisle.net  Mon May 11 21:58:01 2020
From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding)
Date: Tue, 12 May 2020 11:58:01 +1000
Subject: [ANN] Release 9.6.0 RC-1
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq-XtQG8YU9tOVZ6APQOT9LmYROiYHxvh+URGHxWHSowiA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+JfEq8=wG-amx+gEh7nvohr=t+Kcb=Ka=uHXH7gRrOX2nXRhA@mail.gmail.com>
 <006601d627a4$512afd60$f380f820$@net>
 <CA+JfEq-TAnYO6VmNxh+wNVD0A5gRmq67Qdf4XWmYzvC43vAyqQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <006b01d627aa$2f6b67e0$8e4237a0$@net>
 <CA+JfEq-XtQG8YU9tOVZ6APQOT9LmYROiYHxvh+URGHxWHSowiA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8CD96995-577D-47D9-885A-98DD09307C53@appisle.net>

Hi Ralph

The splash images are not scaled or stretched. They are centred on the launch screen. You can use any size image. There?s two main options to choose from here.

- use a logo PNG with transparency and rely on the background color to fill the rest. You can choose from using the system background color so it switches for light and dark mode or an explicit color. This is what I would recommend as there?s no maintenance for new devices apple might release.

- use an image that is sized large enough to cover the entire screen in all supported orientations. If supporting portrait and landscape you would need a square image. As the image is not scaled you would need to update it if Apple releases a larger device.

Cheers

Monte


> On 12 May 2020, at 1:51 am, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hello Ralph,
> 
> I'll leave this for Monte to provide more details, but my understanding is
> that now with the storyboard you only need to provide one image, and this
> will be scaled automatically for all screen sizes.
> 
> So if you provide only image in the 3x slot, say a 2048x2732, the
> storyboard mechanism will use the same image scaled down to
> (2048/2)x(2732/2) for the 2x  slot and (2048/3)x(2732/3) for the 1x slot.
> 
> So the idea is that now you do not need one separate image for each
> possible device size. You only need one "small", and/or one "medium" and/or
> one "large" image, and this image (or these images, in case you provide
> more than one) will be used for "small","medium" and "large" device screen
> sizes.
> 
> There are no specific required dimensions for each of the 1x,2x,3x slots,
> so you get no error message, but a rule of thumb is to use the largest
> image you used before for the 3x slot, and let the S/B do the rest for you.
> 
> *>>>>>Also, Will the image be stretched or cropped to fit the various
> aspect*
> *ratios?*
> 
> The image will be cropped.
> 
> If you only provide a "small" image (i.e. a 1x one), then in some large
> screens it might appear as a letterbox, but you can choose the background
> color to display in this case (in the areas that would appear "black" in
> the letterbox). If the description is not clear, I suggest you do some
> experimenting and see what is the behavior in this case.
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> Kind regards,
> Panos
> 
> 
> On Mon, 11 May 2020 at 18:37, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Also, Will the image be stretched or cropped to fit the various aspect
>> ratios? I would think the they will cropped as stretching would distort the
>> splash image. Is there a way for the storyboard to use custom images for
>> each of Apple's screen types? I know that this is what their trying to get
>> away from. I'm confused.
>> 
>> Ralph DiMola
>> IT Director
>> Evergreen Information Services
>> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On
>> Behalf
>> Of panagiotis merakos via use-livecode
>> Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 11:12 AM
>> To: How to use LiveCode
>> Cc: panagiotis merakos
>> Subject: Re: [ANN] Release 9.6.0 RC-1
>> 
>> Hello Ralph,
>> 
>> I believe that if you just set the 3x image to the largest image you used
>> before (e.g. use a 2048x2732 image), then the storyboard mechanism will
>> take
>> care of the rest and scale the image automagically to fit all screen sizes.
>> At least this was the case in my tests.
>> 
>> We'll see if we could add more info in the tooltips or in the release notes
>> to make this less confusing :)
>> 
>> Also, off-topic, I noticed that the app loads faster now that it uses the
>> storyboard. I am curious if it is faster for you as well.
>> 
>> Kind regards,
>> Panos
>> --
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Mon, 11 May 2020 at 17:55, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Panos,
>>> 
>>> What size does the splash images need to be? How are they resized for
>>> various device aspect ratios? I make the splash image the same as the
>>> first card of the stack and in the past it was easy to make them
>>> match. I could not find anything in the docs or release notes. There
>>> used to be an image for each device. Now there is only 3 for all
>>> devices. Actually there is 6 three light three dark but only three for
>>> any mode. How is this going to work?
>>> 
>>> Ralph DiMola
>>> IT Director
>>> Evergreen Information Services
>>> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On
>>> Behalf Of panagiotis merakos via use-livecode
>>> Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 9:00 AM
>>> To: How to use LiveCode
>>> Cc: panagiotis merakos
>>> Subject: [ANN] Release 9.6.0 RC-1
>>> 
>>> Dear list members,
>>> 
>>> We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 9.6.0 RC-1.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Getting the Release
>>> ===================
>>> You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ or
>>> via the automatic updater.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Release Contents
>>> ================
>>> LiveCode 9.6.0 RC-1 comes with more than 30 changes, including:
>>> 
>>> New Features
>>>  - Support for Storyboard launch images and backgrounds on iOS
>>>  - Support for using the flash as a torch in the Android Barcode Scanner
>>>  - Support for building with Xcode 11.4, using the iOS 13.4 SDK
>>>  - New tsNet and mergExt builds, built with the iOS 13.4 SDK
>>> 
>>> Bug Fixes:
>>>  - Improvements in the text-to-speech library
>>>  - Improvements in the iOS native browser
>>>  - Improvements in the camera control object
>>>  - Significant performance improvement when saving stacks on Windows
>>>  - Improvements in the Windows FFI in LCB
>>> 
>>> For the full list of all fixes, updates and enhancements please see
>>> the release notes:
>>> http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/9_6_0/LiveCodeNotes-9_6_0_rc_1.
>>> pdf
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Known issues
>>> ============
>>> - The Browser widget's native layer is not shown in some Linux distros
>>> with Cinnamon window manager.
>>> - The use of the Browser widget is not supported on Ubuntu 18.04 64
>>> bit LTS yet.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Required Software
>>> =================
>>> To build iOS apps with LiveCode you must have the appropriate versions
>>> of Xcode as follows:
>>> 
>>>  - macOS 10.13.4: Xcode 10.1 - LiveCode builds iOS apps using the iOS
>>> 12.1 SDK
>>>  - macOS 10.14.4: Xcode 11.3.x - LiveCode builds iOS apps using the
>>> iOS
>>> 13.2 SDK
>>>  - macOS 10.15.2: Xcode 11.4.x - LiveCode builds iOS apps using the
>>> iOS
>>> 13.4 SDK
>>> 
>>> There is a full list of working LiveCode/macOS/Xcode combinations here:
>>> https://livecode.com/docs/9-5-0/faq/faq/
>>> 
>>> Note: Whilst we endeavour to release updated versions of LiveCode
>>> supporting the latest Xcode/iOS SDKs as quickly as possible; we
>>> strongly recommend disabling automatic update of Xcode or downloading
>>> the specific version of Xcode required directly from the Apple
>>> developer portal and installing it separately.
>>> 
>>> Important: From the end of June 2020, Apple will only be accepting
>>> apps built using iOS13 SDKs. This means that, if you wish to submit
>>> apps to the AppStore you will have to be running at least macOS 10.14
>>> in order to be able to install the necessary version of Xcode.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Feedback
>>> ========
>>> Please report any bugs encountered on our quality center at
>>> http://quality.livecode.com/
>>> 
>>> We have a forum available for discussing LiveCode Builder at
>>> http://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=93
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Have fun!
>>> The LiveCode Team
>>> --
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription
>>> preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription
>> preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Mon May 11 22:55:42 2020
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 22:55:42 -0400
Subject: [ANN] Release 9.6.0 RC-1
In-Reply-To: <8CD96995-577D-47D9-885A-98DD09307C53@appisle.net>
References: <CA+JfEq8=wG-amx+gEh7nvohr=t+Kcb=Ka=uHXH7gRrOX2nXRhA@mail.gmail.com>
 <006601d627a4$512afd60$f380f820$@net>
 <CA+JfEq-TAnYO6VmNxh+wNVD0A5gRmq67Qdf4XWmYzvC43vAyqQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <006b01d627aa$2f6b67e0$8e4237a0$@net>
 <CA+JfEq-XtQG8YU9tOVZ6APQOT9LmYROiYHxvh+URGHxWHSowiA@mail.gmail.com>
 <8CD96995-577D-47D9-885A-98DD09307C53@appisle.net>
Message-ID: <000001d62808$d6303020$82909060$@net>

Monte,

Thanks for the reply! But the problem I have is I want to match pixel for pixel the splash page with the first card on all devices. These were my customers specs. I now have to tell them this is not possible anymore. When I submit an app update the splash page of the initial launch of their app will be changing. This is not going to go over very well I can tell you that. Is it not possible to have the storyboard code use specific images for specific devices as was available in previous versions? Is this an Apple or an LC limitation?

Thanks again

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net

-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Monte Goulding via use-livecode
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 9:58 PM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: Monte Goulding
Subject: Re: [ANN] Release 9.6.0 RC-1

Hi Ralph

The splash images are not scaled or stretched. They are centred on the launch screen. You can use any size image. There?s two main options to choose from here.

- use a logo PNG with transparency and rely on the background color to fill the rest. You can choose from using the system background color so it switches for light and dark mode or an explicit color. This is what I would recommend as there?s no maintenance for new devices apple might release.

- use an image that is sized large enough to cover the entire screen in all supported orientations. If supporting portrait and landscape you would need a square image. As the image is not scaled you would need to update it if Apple releases a larger device.

Cheers

Monte


> On 12 May 2020, at 1:51 am, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hello Ralph,
> 
> I'll leave this for Monte to provide more details, but my 
> understanding is that now with the storyboard you only need to provide 
> one image, and this will be scaled automatically for all screen sizes.
> 
> So if you provide only image in the 3x slot, say a 2048x2732, the 
> storyboard mechanism will use the same image scaled down to
> (2048/2)x(2732/2) for the 2x  slot and (2048/3)x(2732/3) for the 1x slot.
> 
> So the idea is that now you do not need one separate image for each 
> possible device size. You only need one "small", and/or one "medium" 
> and/or one "large" image, and this image (or these images, in case you 
> provide more than one) will be used for "small","medium" and "large" 
> device screen sizes.
> 
> There are no specific required dimensions for each of the 1x,2x,3x 
> slots, so you get no error message, but a rule of thumb is to use the 
> largest image you used before for the 3x slot, and let the S/B do the rest for you.
> 
> *>>>>>Also, Will the image be stretched or cropped to fit the various
> aspect*
> *ratios?*
> 
> The image will be cropped.
> 
> If you only provide a "small" image (i.e. a 1x one), then in some 
> large screens it might appear as a letterbox, but you can choose the 
> background color to display in this case (in the areas that would 
> appear "black" in the letterbox). If the description is not clear, I 
> suggest you do some experimenting and see what is the behavior in this case.
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> Kind regards,
> Panos
> 
> 
> On Mon, 11 May 2020 at 18:37, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < 
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Also, Will the image be stretched or cropped to fit the various 
>> aspect ratios? I would think the they will cropped as stretching 
>> would distort the splash image. Is there a way for the storyboard to 
>> use custom images for each of Apple's screen types? I know that this 
>> is what their trying to get away from. I'm confused.
>> 
>> Ralph DiMola
>> IT Director
>> Evergreen Information Services
>> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On 
>> Behalf Of panagiotis merakos via use-livecode
>> Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 11:12 AM
>> To: How to use LiveCode
>> Cc: panagiotis merakos
>> Subject: Re: [ANN] Release 9.6.0 RC-1
>> 
>> Hello Ralph,
>> 
>> I believe that if you just set the 3x image to the largest image you 
>> used before (e.g. use a 2048x2732 image), then the storyboard 
>> mechanism will take care of the rest and scale the image 
>> automagically to fit all screen sizes.
>> At least this was the case in my tests.
>> 
>> We'll see if we could add more info in the tooltips or in the release 
>> notes to make this less confusing :)
>> 
>> Also, off-topic, I noticed that the app loads faster now that it uses 
>> the storyboard. I am curious if it is faster for you as well.
>> 
>> Kind regards,
>> Panos
>> --
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Mon, 11 May 2020 at 17:55, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < 
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Panos,
>>> 
>>> What size does the splash images need to be? How are they resized 
>>> for various device aspect ratios? I make the splash image the same 
>>> as the first card of the stack and in the past it was easy to make 
>>> them match. I could not find anything in the docs or release notes. 
>>> There used to be an image for each device. Now there is only 3 for 
>>> all devices. Actually there is 6 three light three dark but only 
>>> three for any mode. How is this going to work?
>>> 
>>> Ralph DiMola
>>> IT Director
>>> Evergreen Information Services
>>> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On 
>>> Behalf Of panagiotis merakos via use-livecode
>>> Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 9:00 AM
>>> To: How to use LiveCode
>>> Cc: panagiotis merakos
>>> Subject: [ANN] Release 9.6.0 RC-1
>>> 
>>> Dear list members,
>>> 
>>> We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 9.6.0 RC-1.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Getting the Release
>>> ===================
>>> You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ 
>>> or via the automatic updater.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Release Contents
>>> ================
>>> LiveCode 9.6.0 RC-1 comes with more than 30 changes, including:
>>> 
>>> New Features
>>>  - Support for Storyboard launch images and backgrounds on iOS
>>>  - Support for using the flash as a torch in the Android Barcode 
>>> Scanner
>>>  - Support for building with Xcode 11.4, using the iOS 13.4 SDK
>>>  - New tsNet and mergExt builds, built with the iOS 13.4 SDK
>>> 
>>> Bug Fixes:
>>>  - Improvements in the text-to-speech library
>>>  - Improvements in the iOS native browser
>>>  - Improvements in the camera control object
>>>  - Significant performance improvement when saving stacks on Windows
>>>  - Improvements in the Windows FFI in LCB
>>> 
>>> For the full list of all fixes, updates and enhancements please see 
>>> the release notes:
>>> http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/9_6_0/LiveCodeNotes-9_6_0_rc_1.
>>> pdf
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Known issues
>>> ============
>>> - The Browser widget's native layer is not shown in some Linux 
>>> distros with Cinnamon window manager.
>>> - The use of the Browser widget is not supported on Ubuntu 18.04 64 
>>> bit LTS yet.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Required Software
>>> =================
>>> To build iOS apps with LiveCode you must have the appropriate 
>>> versions of Xcode as follows:
>>> 
>>>  - macOS 10.13.4: Xcode 10.1 - LiveCode builds iOS apps using the 
>>> iOS
>>> 12.1 SDK
>>>  - macOS 10.14.4: Xcode 11.3.x - LiveCode builds iOS apps using the 
>>> iOS
>>> 13.2 SDK
>>>  - macOS 10.15.2: Xcode 11.4.x - LiveCode builds iOS apps using the 
>>> iOS
>>> 13.4 SDK
>>> 
>>> There is a full list of working LiveCode/macOS/Xcode combinations here:
>>> https://livecode.com/docs/9-5-0/faq/faq/
>>> 
>>> Note: Whilst we endeavour to release updated versions of LiveCode 
>>> supporting the latest Xcode/iOS SDKs as quickly as possible; we 
>>> strongly recommend disabling automatic update of Xcode or 
>>> downloading the specific version of Xcode required directly from the 
>>> Apple developer portal and installing it separately.
>>> 
>>> Important: From the end of June 2020, Apple will only be accepting 
>>> apps built using iOS13 SDKs. This means that, if you wish to submit 
>>> apps to the AppStore you will have to be running at least macOS 
>>> 10.14 in order to be able to install the necessary version of Xcode.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Feedback
>>> ========
>>> Please report any bugs encountered on our quality center at 
>>> http://quality.livecode.com/
>>> 
>>> We have a forum available for discussing LiveCode Builder at
>>> http://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=93
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Have fun!
>>> The LiveCode Team
>>> --
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>> subscription
>>> preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription
>> preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From monte at appisle.net  Mon May 11 23:40:19 2020
From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding)
Date: Tue, 12 May 2020 13:40:19 +1000
Subject: [ANN] Release 9.6.0 RC-1
In-Reply-To: <000001d62808$d6303020$82909060$@net>
References: <CA+JfEq8=wG-amx+gEh7nvohr=t+Kcb=Ka=uHXH7gRrOX2nXRhA@mail.gmail.com>
 <006601d627a4$512afd60$f380f820$@net>
 <CA+JfEq-TAnYO6VmNxh+wNVD0A5gRmq67Qdf4XWmYzvC43vAyqQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <006b01d627aa$2f6b67e0$8e4237a0$@net>
 <CA+JfEq-XtQG8YU9tOVZ6APQOT9LmYROiYHxvh+URGHxWHSowiA@mail.gmail.com>
 <8CD96995-577D-47D9-885A-98DD09307C53@appisle.net>
 <000001d62808$d6303020$82909060$@net>
Message-ID: <CD00CA8E-FDAD-4961-9E66-7951AAE3BAD8@appisle.net>

Hi Ralph

We have had some discussions internally about the feasibility of users including custom storyboard file templates and imagesets. That _might_ be the best way forward although it could be difficult to match your UI exactly given storyboard does not have specific device categories but compact and regular width/height categories.

Cheers

Monte

> On 12 May 2020, at 12:55 pm, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Monte,
> 
> Thanks for the reply! But the problem I have is I want to match pixel for pixel the splash page with the first card on all devices. These were my customers specs. I now have to tell them this is not possible anymore. When I submit an app update the splash page of the initial launch of their app will be changing. This is not going to go over very well I can tell you that. Is it not possible to have the storyboard code use specific images for specific devices as was available in previous versions? Is this an Apple or an LC limitation?
> 
> Thanks again
> 
> Ralph DiMola
> IT Director
> Evergreen Information Services
> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Monte Goulding via use-livecode
> Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 9:58 PM
> To: How to use LiveCode
> Cc: Monte Goulding
> Subject: Re: [ANN] Release 9.6.0 RC-1
> 
> Hi Ralph
> 
> The splash images are not scaled or stretched. They are centred on the launch screen. You can use any size image. There?s two main options to choose from here.
> 
> - use a logo PNG with transparency and rely on the background color to fill the rest. You can choose from using the system background color so it switches for light and dark mode or an explicit color. This is what I would recommend as there?s no maintenance for new devices apple might release.
> 
> - use an image that is sized large enough to cover the entire screen in all supported orientations. If supporting portrait and landscape you would need a square image. As the image is not scaled you would need to update it if Apple releases a larger device.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Monte
> 
> 
>> On 12 May 2020, at 1:51 am, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hello Ralph,
>> 
>> I'll leave this for Monte to provide more details, but my 
>> understanding is that now with the storyboard you only need to provide 
>> one image, and this will be scaled automatically for all screen sizes.
>> 
>> So if you provide only image in the 3x slot, say a 2048x2732, the 
>> storyboard mechanism will use the same image scaled down to
>> (2048/2)x(2732/2) for the 2x  slot and (2048/3)x(2732/3) for the 1x slot.
>> 
>> So the idea is that now you do not need one separate image for each 
>> possible device size. You only need one "small", and/or one "medium" 
>> and/or one "large" image, and this image (or these images, in case you 
>> provide more than one) will be used for "small","medium" and "large" 
>> device screen sizes.
>> 
>> There are no specific required dimensions for each of the 1x,2x,3x 
>> slots, so you get no error message, but a rule of thumb is to use the 
>> largest image you used before for the 3x slot, and let the S/B do the rest for you.
>> 
>> *>>>>>Also, Will the image be stretched or cropped to fit the various
>> aspect*
>> *ratios?*
>> 
>> The image will be cropped.
>> 
>> If you only provide a "small" image (i.e. a 1x one), then in some 
>> large screens it might appear as a letterbox, but you can choose the 
>> background color to display in this case (in the areas that would 
>> appear "black" in the letterbox). If the description is not clear, I 
>> suggest you do some experimenting and see what is the behavior in this case.
>> 
>> Hope this helps.
>> 
>> Kind regards,
>> Panos
>> 
>> 
>> On Mon, 11 May 2020 at 18:37, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < 
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Also, Will the image be stretched or cropped to fit the various 
>>> aspect ratios? I would think the they will cropped as stretching 
>>> would distort the splash image. Is there a way for the storyboard to 
>>> use custom images for each of Apple's screen types? I know that this 
>>> is what their trying to get away from. I'm confused.
>>> 
>>> Ralph DiMola
>>> IT Director
>>> Evergreen Information Services
>>> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On 
>>> Behalf Of panagiotis merakos via use-livecode
>>> Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 11:12 AM
>>> To: How to use LiveCode
>>> Cc: panagiotis merakos
>>> Subject: Re: [ANN] Release 9.6.0 RC-1
>>> 
>>> Hello Ralph,
>>> 
>>> I believe that if you just set the 3x image to the largest image you 
>>> used before (e.g. use a 2048x2732 image), then the storyboard 
>>> mechanism will take care of the rest and scale the image 
>>> automagically to fit all screen sizes.
>>> At least this was the case in my tests.
>>> 
>>> We'll see if we could add more info in the tooltips or in the release 
>>> notes to make this less confusing :)
>>> 
>>> Also, off-topic, I noticed that the app loads faster now that it uses 
>>> the storyboard. I am curious if it is faster for you as well.
>>> 
>>> Kind regards,
>>> Panos
>>> --
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Mon, 11 May 2020 at 17:55, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < 
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Panos,
>>>> 
>>>> What size does the splash images need to be? How are they resized 
>>>> for various device aspect ratios? I make the splash image the same 
>>>> as the first card of the stack and in the past it was easy to make 
>>>> them match. I could not find anything in the docs or release notes. 
>>>> There used to be an image for each device. Now there is only 3 for 
>>>> all devices. Actually there is 6 three light three dark but only 
>>>> three for any mode. How is this going to work?
>>>> 
>>>> Ralph DiMola
>>>> IT Director
>>>> Evergreen Information Services
>>>> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On 
>>>> Behalf Of panagiotis merakos via use-livecode
>>>> Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 9:00 AM
>>>> To: How to use LiveCode
>>>> Cc: panagiotis merakos
>>>> Subject: [ANN] Release 9.6.0 RC-1
>>>> 
>>>> Dear list members,
>>>> 
>>>> We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 9.6.0 RC-1.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Getting the Release
>>>> ===================
>>>> You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ 
>>>> or via the automatic updater.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Release Contents
>>>> ================
>>>> LiveCode 9.6.0 RC-1 comes with more than 30 changes, including:
>>>> 
>>>> New Features
>>>> - Support for Storyboard launch images and backgrounds on iOS
>>>> - Support for using the flash as a torch in the Android Barcode 
>>>> Scanner
>>>> - Support for building with Xcode 11.4, using the iOS 13.4 SDK
>>>> - New tsNet and mergExt builds, built with the iOS 13.4 SDK
>>>> 
>>>> Bug Fixes:
>>>> - Improvements in the text-to-speech library
>>>> - Improvements in the iOS native browser
>>>> - Improvements in the camera control object
>>>> - Significant performance improvement when saving stacks on Windows
>>>> - Improvements in the Windows FFI in LCB
>>>> 
>>>> For the full list of all fixes, updates and enhancements please see 
>>>> the release notes:
>>>> http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/9_6_0/LiveCodeNotes-9_6_0_rc_1.
>>>> pdf
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Known issues
>>>> ============
>>>> - The Browser widget's native layer is not shown in some Linux 
>>>> distros with Cinnamon window manager.
>>>> - The use of the Browser widget is not supported on Ubuntu 18.04 64 
>>>> bit LTS yet.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Required Software
>>>> =================
>>>> To build iOS apps with LiveCode you must have the appropriate 
>>>> versions of Xcode as follows:
>>>> 
>>>> - macOS 10.13.4: Xcode 10.1 - LiveCode builds iOS apps using the 
>>>> iOS
>>>> 12.1 SDK
>>>> - macOS 10.14.4: Xcode 11.3.x - LiveCode builds iOS apps using the 
>>>> iOS
>>>> 13.2 SDK
>>>> - macOS 10.15.2: Xcode 11.4.x - LiveCode builds iOS apps using the 
>>>> iOS
>>>> 13.4 SDK
>>>> 
>>>> There is a full list of working LiveCode/macOS/Xcode combinations here:
>>>> https://livecode.com/docs/9-5-0/faq/faq/
>>>> 
>>>> Note: Whilst we endeavour to release updated versions of LiveCode 
>>>> supporting the latest Xcode/iOS SDKs as quickly as possible; we 
>>>> strongly recommend disabling automatic update of Xcode or 
>>>> downloading the specific version of Xcode required directly from the 
>>>> Apple developer portal and installing it separately.
>>>> 
>>>> Important: From the end of June 2020, Apple will only be accepting 
>>>> apps built using iOS13 SDKs. This means that, if you wish to submit 
>>>> apps to the AppStore you will have to be running at least macOS 
>>>> 10.14 in order to be able to install the necessary version of Xcode.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Feedback
>>>> ========
>>>> Please report any bugs encountered on our quality center at 
>>>> http://quality.livecode.com/
>>>> 
>>>> We have a forum available for discussing LiveCode Builder at
>>>> http://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=93
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Have fun!
>>>> The LiveCode Team
>>>> --
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>>> subscription
>>>> preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>> subscription
>>> preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From scott at elementarysoftware.com  Mon May 11 23:50:47 2020
From: scott at elementarysoftware.com (scott at elementarysoftware.com)
Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 20:50:47 -0700
Subject: [ANN] Release 9.6.0 RC-1
In-Reply-To: <CD00CA8E-FDAD-4961-9E66-7951AAE3BAD8@appisle.net>
References: <CA+JfEq8=wG-amx+gEh7nvohr=t+Kcb=Ka=uHXH7gRrOX2nXRhA@mail.gmail.com>
 <006601d627a4$512afd60$f380f820$@net>
 <CA+JfEq-TAnYO6VmNxh+wNVD0A5gRmq67Qdf4XWmYzvC43vAyqQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <006b01d627aa$2f6b67e0$8e4237a0$@net>
 <CA+JfEq-XtQG8YU9tOVZ6APQOT9LmYROiYHxvh+URGHxWHSowiA@mail.gmail.com>
 <8CD96995-577D-47D9-885A-98DD09307C53@appisle.net>
 <000001d62808$d6303020$82909060$@net>
 <CD00CA8E-FDAD-4961-9E66-7951AAE3BAD8@appisle.net>
Message-ID: <55955CED-DF8A-4545-A25C-078F7A8ABDD0@elementarysoftware.com>

I am puzzled by how we should approach this for apps that work on both iPhone and iPad? It seems we choose an iPhone image and an iPad simply has a background border around and iPhone shaped splash?

> On May 11, 2020, at 8:40 PM, Monte Goulding via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Ralph
> 
> We have had some discussions internally about the feasibility of users including custom storyboard file templates and imagesets. That _might_ be the best way forward although it could be difficult to match your UI exactly given storyboard does not have specific device categories but compact and regular width/height categories.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Monte
> 
>> On 12 May 2020, at 12:55 pm, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Monte,
>> 
>> Thanks for the reply! But the problem I have is I want to match pixel for pixel the splash page with the first card on all devices. These were my customers specs. I now have to tell them this is not possible anymore. When I submit an app update the splash page of the initial launch of their app will be changing. This is not going to go over very well I can tell you that. Is it not possible to have the storyboard code use specific images for specific devices as was available in previous versions? Is this an Apple or an LC limitation?
>> 
>> Thanks again
>> 
>> Ralph DiMola
>> IT Director
>> Evergreen Information Services
>> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Monte Goulding via use-livecode
>> Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 9:58 PM
>> To: How to use LiveCode
>> Cc: Monte Goulding
>> Subject: Re: [ANN] Release 9.6.0 RC-1
>> 
>> Hi Ralph
>> 
>> The splash images are not scaled or stretched. They are centred on the launch screen. You can use any size image. There?s two main options to choose from here.
>> 
>> - use a logo PNG with transparency and rely on the background color to fill the rest. You can choose from using the system background color so it switches for light and dark mode or an explicit color. This is what I would recommend as there?s no maintenance for new devices apple might release.
>> 
>> - use an image that is sized large enough to cover the entire screen in all supported orientations. If supporting portrait and landscape you would need a square image. As the image is not scaled you would need to update it if Apple releases a larger device.
>> 
>> Cheers
>> 
>> Monte
>> 
>> 
>>> On 12 May 2020, at 1:51 am, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello Ralph,
>>> 
>>> I'll leave this for Monte to provide more details, but my 
>>> understanding is that now with the storyboard you only need to provide 
>>> one image, and this will be scaled automatically for all screen sizes.
>>> 
>>> So if you provide only image in the 3x slot, say a 2048x2732, the 
>>> storyboard mechanism will use the same image scaled down to
>>> (2048/2)x(2732/2) for the 2x  slot and (2048/3)x(2732/3) for the 1x slot.
>>> 
>>> So the idea is that now you do not need one separate image for each 
>>> possible device size. You only need one "small", and/or one "medium" 
>>> and/or one "large" image, and this image (or these images, in case you 
>>> provide more than one) will be used for "small","medium" and "large" 
>>> device screen sizes.
>>> 
>>> There are no specific required dimensions for each of the 1x,2x,3x 
>>> slots, so you get no error message, but a rule of thumb is to use the 
>>> largest image you used before for the 3x slot, and let the S/B do the rest for you.
>>> 
>>> *>>>>>Also, Will the image be stretched or cropped to fit the various
>>> aspect*
>>> *ratios?*
>>> 
>>> The image will be cropped.
>>> 
>>> If you only provide a "small" image (i.e. a 1x one), then in some 
>>> large screens it might appear as a letterbox, but you can choose the 
>>> background color to display in this case (in the areas that would 
>>> appear "black" in the letterbox). If the description is not clear, I 
>>> suggest you do some experimenting and see what is the behavior in this case.
>>> 
>>> Hope this helps.
>>> 
>>> Kind regards,
>>> Panos
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Mon, 11 May 2020 at 18:37, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < 
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Also, Will the image be stretched or cropped to fit the various 
>>>> aspect ratios? I would think the they will cropped as stretching 
>>>> would distort the splash image. Is there a way for the storyboard to 
>>>> use custom images for each of Apple's screen types? I know that this 
>>>> is what their trying to get away from. I'm confused.
>>>> 
>>>> Ralph DiMola
>>>> IT Director
>>>> Evergreen Information Services
>>>> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On 
>>>> Behalf Of panagiotis merakos via use-livecode
>>>> Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 11:12 AM
>>>> To: How to use LiveCode
>>>> Cc: panagiotis merakos
>>>> Subject: Re: [ANN] Release 9.6.0 RC-1
>>>> 
>>>> Hello Ralph,
>>>> 
>>>> I believe that if you just set the 3x image to the largest image you 
>>>> used before (e.g. use a 2048x2732 image), then the storyboard 
>>>> mechanism will take care of the rest and scale the image 
>>>> automagically to fit all screen sizes.
>>>> At least this was the case in my tests.
>>>> 
>>>> We'll see if we could add more info in the tooltips or in the release 
>>>> notes to make this less confusing :)
>>>> 
>>>> Also, off-topic, I noticed that the app loads faster now that it uses 
>>>> the storyboard. I am curious if it is faster for you as well.
>>>> 
>>>> Kind regards,
>>>> Panos
>>>> --
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Mon, 11 May 2020 at 17:55, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < 
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Panos,
>>>>> 
>>>>> What size does the splash images need to be? How are they resized 
>>>>> for various device aspect ratios? I make the splash image the same 
>>>>> as the first card of the stack and in the past it was easy to make 
>>>>> them match. I could not find anything in the docs or release notes. 
>>>>> There used to be an image for each device. Now there is only 3 for 
>>>>> all devices. Actually there is 6 three light three dark but only 
>>>>> three for any mode. How is this going to work?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Ralph DiMola
>>>>> IT Director
>>>>> Evergreen Information Services
>>>>> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On 
>>>>> Behalf Of panagiotis merakos via use-livecode
>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 9:00 AM
>>>>> To: How to use LiveCode
>>>>> Cc: panagiotis merakos
>>>>> Subject: [ANN] Release 9.6.0 RC-1
>>>>> 
>>>>> Dear list members,
>>>>> 
>>>>> We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 9.6.0 RC-1.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Getting the Release
>>>>> ===================
>>>>> You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ 
>>>>> or via the automatic updater.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Release Contents
>>>>> ================
>>>>> LiveCode 9.6.0 RC-1 comes with more than 30 changes, including:
>>>>> 
>>>>> New Features
>>>>> - Support for Storyboard launch images and backgrounds on iOS
>>>>> - Support for using the flash as a torch in the Android Barcode 
>>>>> Scanner
>>>>> - Support for building with Xcode 11.4, using the iOS 13.4 SDK
>>>>> - New tsNet and mergExt builds, built with the iOS 13.4 SDK
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bug Fixes:
>>>>> - Improvements in the text-to-speech library
>>>>> - Improvements in the iOS native browser
>>>>> - Improvements in the camera control object
>>>>> - Significant performance improvement when saving stacks on Windows
>>>>> - Improvements in the Windows FFI in LCB
>>>>> 
>>>>> For the full list of all fixes, updates and enhancements please see 
>>>>> the release notes:
>>>>> http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/9_6_0/LiveCodeNotes-9_6_0_rc_1.
>>>>> pdf
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Known issues
>>>>> ============
>>>>> - The Browser widget's native layer is not shown in some Linux 
>>>>> distros with Cinnamon window manager.
>>>>> - The use of the Browser widget is not supported on Ubuntu 18.04 64 
>>>>> bit LTS yet.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Required Software
>>>>> =================
>>>>> To build iOS apps with LiveCode you must have the appropriate 
>>>>> versions of Xcode as follows:
>>>>> 
>>>>> - macOS 10.13.4: Xcode 10.1 - LiveCode builds iOS apps using the 
>>>>> iOS
>>>>> 12.1 SDK
>>>>> - macOS 10.14.4: Xcode 11.3.x - LiveCode builds iOS apps using the 
>>>>> iOS
>>>>> 13.2 SDK
>>>>> - macOS 10.15.2: Xcode 11.4.x - LiveCode builds iOS apps using the 
>>>>> iOS
>>>>> 13.4 SDK
>>>>> 
>>>>> There is a full list of working LiveCode/macOS/Xcode combinations here:
>>>>> https://livecode.com/docs/9-5-0/faq/faq/
>>>>> 
>>>>> Note: Whilst we endeavour to release updated versions of LiveCode 
>>>>> supporting the latest Xcode/iOS SDKs as quickly as possible; we 
>>>>> strongly recommend disabling automatic update of Xcode or 
>>>>> downloading the specific version of Xcode required directly from the 
>>>>> Apple developer portal and installing it separately.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Important: From the end of June 2020, Apple will only be accepting 
>>>>> apps built using iOS13 SDKs. This means that, if you wish to submit 
>>>>> apps to the AppStore you will have to be running at least macOS 
>>>>> 10.14 in order to be able to install the necessary version of Xcode.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Feedback
>>>>> ========
>>>>> Please report any bugs encountered on our quality center at 
>>>>> http://quality.livecode.com/
>>>>> 
>>>>> We have a forum available for discussing LiveCode Builder at
>>>>> http://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=93
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Have fun!
>>>>> The LiveCode Team
>>>>> --
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>>>> subscription
>>>>> preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>>> subscription
>>>> preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From monte at appisle.net  Mon May 11 23:57:12 2020
From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding)
Date: Tue, 12 May 2020 13:57:12 +1000
Subject: [ANN] Release 9.6.0 RC-1
In-Reply-To: <55955CED-DF8A-4545-A25C-078F7A8ABDD0@elementarysoftware.com>
References: <CA+JfEq8=wG-amx+gEh7nvohr=t+Kcb=Ka=uHXH7gRrOX2nXRhA@mail.gmail.com>
 <006601d627a4$512afd60$f380f820$@net>
 <CA+JfEq-TAnYO6VmNxh+wNVD0A5gRmq67Qdf4XWmYzvC43vAyqQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <006b01d627aa$2f6b67e0$8e4237a0$@net>
 <CA+JfEq-XtQG8YU9tOVZ6APQOT9LmYROiYHxvh+URGHxWHSowiA@mail.gmail.com>
 <8CD96995-577D-47D9-885A-98DD09307C53@appisle.net>
 <000001d62808$d6303020$82909060$@net>
 <CD00CA8E-FDAD-4961-9E66-7951AAE3BAD8@appisle.net>
 <55955CED-DF8A-4545-A25C-078F7A8ABDD0@elementarysoftware.com>
Message-ID: <44675031-FB52-4E9F-B75D-2F694E3876CF@appisle.net>

You can choose a large image designed in such a way the content on the sides or top can be clipped or you can choose a smaller image and have the background visible.

> On 12 May 2020, at 1:50 pm, scott--- via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I am puzzled by how we should approach this for apps that work on both iPhone and iPad? It seems we choose an iPhone image and an iPad simply has a background border around and iPhone shaped splash?



From toolbook at kestner.de  Tue May 12 03:11:53 2020
From: toolbook at kestner.de (toolbook at kestner.de)
Date: Tue, 12 May 2020 09:11:53 +0200
Subject: AW: Externals are not loaded
In-Reply-To: <A86016EF-651F-4E4B-A949-B86F65AF1A24@m-r-d.de>
References: <013901d6277b$99f99660$cdecc320$@kestner.de>
 <2598B0A5-16C0-4065-BBE4-E8BFEECA2A99@m-r-d.de>
 <898269B5-121A-4E9D-AA17-9BC6D2B97648@m-r-d.de>
 <016901d627ad$00acd300$02067900$@kestner.de>
 <C88BD3F8-0562-4AC3-A359-F200EB64F17D@m-r-d.de>
 <016e01d627b2$09174430$1b45cc90$@kestner.de>
 <A86016EF-651F-4E4B-A949-B86F65AF1A24@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <003e01d6282c$9e6bdf30$db439d90$@kestner.de>

Definitely!

-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> Im Auftrag von matthias rebbe via use-livecode
Gesendet: Montag, 11. Mai 2020 20:27
An: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Cc: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de
Betreff: Re: Externals are not loaded

Tiemo, you're getting old... ;)

Six years ago...
http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/where-does-revsecurity-dll-comes-from-td4691453.html


Regards,

Matthias

-
Matthias Rebbe
Life Is Too Short For Boring Code

> Am 11.05.2020 um 18:34 schrieb Tiemo via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> You got it!
> I have installed LC 9.0.2 32Bit and LC 9.5.1 64 Bit ...
> Obviously I have been off for too long and not anymore in the subject.
> 
> Ok, last externals question. In my old builds I found a revsecurity.dll and have no idea what I have used it for and can't find it anymore in the current LC setups. Can anybody  confirm that this external today is obsolete?
> 
> Thank you
> Tiemo
> 
> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> Im Auftrag 
> von matthias rebbe via use-livecode
> Gesendet: Montag, 11. Mai 2020 18:09
> An: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Cc: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de
> Betreff: Re: Externals are not loaded
> 
> I am not sure if this might be the problem, but what version of 9.5.1 are you running? 32 or 64 bit?
> 
> If 64bit, maybe there is a problem using 32bit externals on a 64bit LC IDE and you should try the 32bit version of 9.5.1. But that?s just a guess.
> 
> I would say, Panos or Mark Waddingham could answer this better.
> 
> Matthias
> 
> 
> -
> Matthias Rebbe
> Life Is Too Short For Boring Code
> 
>> Am 11.05.2020 um 17:58 schrieb Tiemo via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> Hi Matthias,
>> thank you for bringing me on the right track. I forgot myself, that I 
>> changed my computer since last using this and so my LC preference 
>> file entries and my 3rd party externals were not in place.
>> 
>> BUT I am still struggling. I have on Win10 in my personal documents 
>> folder/My LiveCode/Externals/ my 3rd party externals with the propper 
>> externals.txt.
>> Now, LC 9.0.2 pics my 3rd party externals up and show them to me, 
>> when asking for: "put the externalPackages of stack "home"
>> But LC 9.5.1 ignores my 3rd party externals. Shouldn't all LC 9 
>> versions read the same prefernces file and pick the same externals? 
>> Or has anything changed in LC 9.5 with handling of externals?
>> 
>> Any idea?
>> Tiemo
>> 
>> 
>> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
>> Von: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> Im Auftrag 
>> von matthias rebbe via use-livecode
>> Gesendet: Montag, 11. Mai 2020 12:28
>> An: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
>> Cc: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de
>> Betreff: Re: Externals are not loaded
>> 
>> Sorry, i forgot to add the link. 
>> 
>> http://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/6347-how-to-install-3rd-party-ex
>> t ernals -for-use-in-the-ide-and-standalone-builder
>> 
>> 
>> -
>> Matthias Rebbe
>> Life Is Too Short For Boring Code
>> 
>>> Am 11.05.2020 um 12:22 schrieb matthias rebbe via use-livecode
>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>> 
>>> Tiemo,
>>> 
>>> are you using  the  externals that are included with LC or 3rd party ones?
>>> 
>>> If the latter, did you  check the following lesson already about How 
>>> to
>> use 3rd party Externals?
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> 
>>> Matthias
>>> 
>>> -
>>> Matthias Rebbe
>>> Life Is Too Short For Boring Code
>>> 
>>>> Am 11.05.2020 um 12:04 schrieb Tiemo via use-livecode
>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>>> 
>>>> Hello,
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I haven't worked on this old program for a year or more, last with 
>>>> LC
>> 9.0.2.
>>>> It uses several externals on Windows, which are located in the standard"
>>>> folder "Externals" within the stack folder.
>>>> 
>>>> When I now open it with LC 9.0.2 or 9.5.1 the externalPackages of 
>>>> the stack is empty.
>>>> 
>>>> I searched the docs, but can't remember, if and how I have to 
>>>> assign the externals  or the path of the externals to my stack or 
>>>> even why LC doesn't loads my externals anymore, though I haven't 
>>>> changed anything on this stack since last year, where everything 
>>>> worked fine
>> until the last use.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Can anyone shed some light on the handling of externals for me, 
>>>> what could have happened here?
>>>> 
>>>> Thank you
>>>> 
>>>> Tiemo
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription
>> preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
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>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
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> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


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From scott at elementarysoftware.com  Tue May 12 05:56:22 2020
From: scott at elementarysoftware.com (scott at elementarysoftware.com)
Date: Tue, 12 May 2020 02:56:22 -0700
Subject: [ANN] Release 9.6.0 RC-1
In-Reply-To: <44675031-FB52-4E9F-B75D-2F694E3876CF@appisle.net>
References: <CA+JfEq8=wG-amx+gEh7nvohr=t+Kcb=Ka=uHXH7gRrOX2nXRhA@mail.gmail.com>
 <006601d627a4$512afd60$f380f820$@net>
 <CA+JfEq-TAnYO6VmNxh+wNVD0A5gRmq67Qdf4XWmYzvC43vAyqQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <006b01d627aa$2f6b67e0$8e4237a0$@net>
 <CA+JfEq-XtQG8YU9tOVZ6APQOT9LmYROiYHxvh+URGHxWHSowiA@mail.gmail.com>
 <8CD96995-577D-47D9-885A-98DD09307C53@appisle.net>
 <000001d62808$d6303020$82909060$@net>
 <CD00CA8E-FDAD-4961-9E66-7951AAE3BAD8@appisle.net>
 <55955CED-DF8A-4545-A25C-078F7A8ABDD0@elementarysoftware.com>
 <44675031-FB52-4E9F-B75D-2F694E3876CF@appisle.net>
Message-ID: <687B6F7A-4DD0-4EBC-AA3B-B4AE53314ED6@elementarysoftware.com>

Thank you for commenting, Monte,

I was very excited to hear that Livecode was moving forward with a way to handle the storyboard requirements.

From Apple Human Interface Guidelines <https://developer.apple.com/design/human-interface-guidelines/ios/visual-design/launch-screen/>

<snip>
        "Design a launch screen that?s nearly identical to the first screen of your app. If you include elements that look different when the app finishes launching, people can experience an unpleasant flash between the launch screen and the first screen of the app.?
</snip>

Using individual images allowed this to happen pretty well.

Because of differing aspect ratios, adhering to Apple's guidelines now, at least for apps that support both  iPhone and iPad  (or even just iPhone 6,7,8 and iPhone X variants) seems not to be possible yet with the current implementation of storyboard. Not being experienced with storyboards, I?m not sure if this is a mismatch between Apple?s HIG documentation and storyboards in general or a limitation of Livecode?s early implementation of storyboards. I will be interested to hear how others are handling this.

--
Scott Morrow

Elementary Software
(Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
web       https://elementarysoftware.com/
email     scott at elementarysoftware.com
booth    1-800-615-0867
------------------------------------------------------

> On May 11, 2020, at 8:57 PM, Monte Goulding via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> You can choose a large image designed in such a way the content on the sides or top can be clipped or you can choose a smaller image and have the background visible.
> 
>> On 12 May 2020, at 1:50 pm, scott--- via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I am puzzled by how we should approach this for apps that work on both iPhone and iPad? It seems we choose an iPhone image and an iPad simply has a background border around and iPhone shaped splash?
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Tue May 12 08:45:21 2020
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Tue, 12 May 2020 08:45:21 -0400
Subject: [ANN] Release 9.6.0 RC-1
In-Reply-To: <CD00CA8E-FDAD-4961-9E66-7951AAE3BAD8@appisle.net>
References: <CA+JfEq8=wG-amx+gEh7nvohr=t+Kcb=Ka=uHXH7gRrOX2nXRhA@mail.gmail.com>
 <006601d627a4$512afd60$f380f820$@net>
 <CA+JfEq-TAnYO6VmNxh+wNVD0A5gRmq67Qdf4XWmYzvC43vAyqQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <006b01d627aa$2f6b67e0$8e4237a0$@net>
 <CA+JfEq-XtQG8YU9tOVZ6APQOT9LmYROiYHxvh+URGHxWHSowiA@mail.gmail.com>
 <8CD96995-577D-47D9-885A-98DD09307C53@appisle.net>
 <000001d62808$d6303020$82909060$@net>
 <CD00CA8E-FDAD-4961-9E66-7951AAE3BAD8@appisle.net>
Message-ID: <000601d6285b$3637f460$a2a7dd20$@net>

Monte/LC Team,

I understand that you have limited resources. Could there be a comprise here to share the workload? Instead of LC having to support and change the iOS standalone options every time there is a new iOS device format we(LC USERS) could pickup this pain. If there could be 2 options for splash screens this could work out for all.
1) Users can use the present 9.6 rc1 storyboard options.
2) Users could supply a file of resolutions and associated image names for each specific resolution the user wanted to supply a custom image for. If there is not a match then the images in the current 9.6 rc1 standalone splash screen implementation would be used.

This would put the splash screen implementation of current and new screen specs squarely in hands of the LC user while retaining the current seamless transition from splash to card 1. (if the LC user wanted to put in the effort). 

Thanks for the feedback!
Have a good night...

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net


-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Monte Goulding via use-livecode
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 11:40 PM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: Monte Goulding
Subject: Re: [ANN] Release 9.6.0 RC-1

Hi Ralph

We have had some discussions internally about the feasibility of users including custom storyboard file templates and imagesets. That _might_ be the best way forward although it could be difficult to match your UI exactly given storyboard does not have specific device categories but compact and regular width/height categories.

Cheers

Monte

> On 12 May 2020, at 12:55 pm, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Monte,
> 
> Thanks for the reply! But the problem I have is I want to match pixel for pixel the splash page with the first card on all devices. These were my customers specs. I now have to tell them this is not possible anymore. When I submit an app update the splash page of the initial launch of their app will be changing. This is not going to go over very well I can tell you that. Is it not possible to have the storyboard code use specific images for specific devices as was available in previous versions? Is this an Apple or an LC limitation?
> 
> Thanks again
> 
> Ralph DiMola
> IT Director
> Evergreen Information Services
> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On 
> Behalf Of Monte Goulding via use-livecode
> Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 9:58 PM
> To: How to use LiveCode
> Cc: Monte Goulding
> Subject: Re: [ANN] Release 9.6.0 RC-1
> 
> Hi Ralph
> 
> The splash images are not scaled or stretched. They are centred on the launch screen. You can use any size image. There?s two main options to choose from here.
> 
> - use a logo PNG with transparency and rely on the background color to fill the rest. You can choose from using the system background color so it switches for light and dark mode or an explicit color. This is what I would recommend as there?s no maintenance for new devices apple might release.
> 
> - use an image that is sized large enough to cover the entire screen in all supported orientations. If supporting portrait and landscape you would need a square image. As the image is not scaled you would need to update it if Apple releases a larger device.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Monte
> 
> 
>> On 12 May 2020, at 1:51 am, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hello Ralph,
>> 
>> I'll leave this for Monte to provide more details, but my 
>> understanding is that now with the storyboard you only need to 
>> provide one image, and this will be scaled automatically for all screen sizes.
>> 
>> So if you provide only image in the 3x slot, say a 2048x2732, the 
>> storyboard mechanism will use the same image scaled down to
>> (2048/2)x(2732/2) for the 2x  slot and (2048/3)x(2732/3) for the 1x slot.
>> 
>> So the idea is that now you do not need one separate image for each 
>> possible device size. You only need one "small", and/or one "medium"
>> and/or one "large" image, and this image (or these images, in case 
>> you provide more than one) will be used for "small","medium" and "large"
>> device screen sizes.
>> 
>> There are no specific required dimensions for each of the 1x,2x,3x 
>> slots, so you get no error message, but a rule of thumb is to use the 
>> largest image you used before for the 3x slot, and let the S/B do the rest for you.
>> 
>> *>>>>>Also, Will the image be stretched or cropped to fit the various
>> aspect*
>> *ratios?*
>> 
>> The image will be cropped.
>> 
>> If you only provide a "small" image (i.e. a 1x one), then in some 
>> large screens it might appear as a letterbox, but you can choose the 
>> background color to display in this case (in the areas that would 
>> appear "black" in the letterbox). If the description is not clear, I 
>> suggest you do some experimenting and see what is the behavior in this case.
>> 
>> Hope this helps.
>> 
>> Kind regards,
>> Panos
>> 
>> 
>> On Mon, 11 May 2020 at 18:37, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < 
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Also, Will the image be stretched or cropped to fit the various 
>>> aspect ratios? I would think the they will cropped as stretching 
>>> would distort the splash image. Is there a way for the storyboard to 
>>> use custom images for each of Apple's screen types? I know that this 
>>> is what their trying to get away from. I'm confused.
>>> 
>>> Ralph DiMola
>>> IT Director
>>> Evergreen Information Services
>>> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On 
>>> Behalf Of panagiotis merakos via use-livecode
>>> Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 11:12 AM
>>> To: How to use LiveCode
>>> Cc: panagiotis merakos
>>> Subject: Re: [ANN] Release 9.6.0 RC-1
>>> 
>>> Hello Ralph,
>>> 
>>> I believe that if you just set the 3x image to the largest image you 
>>> used before (e.g. use a 2048x2732 image), then the storyboard 
>>> mechanism will take care of the rest and scale the image 
>>> automagically to fit all screen sizes.
>>> At least this was the case in my tests.
>>> 
>>> We'll see if we could add more info in the tooltips or in the 
>>> release notes to make this less confusing :)
>>> 
>>> Also, off-topic, I noticed that the app loads faster now that it 
>>> uses the storyboard. I am curious if it is faster for you as well.
>>> 
>>> Kind regards,
>>> Panos
>>> --
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Mon, 11 May 2020 at 17:55, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < 
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Panos,
>>>> 
>>>> What size does the splash images need to be? How are they resized 
>>>> for various device aspect ratios? I make the splash image the same 
>>>> as the first card of the stack and in the past it was easy to make 
>>>> them match. I could not find anything in the docs or release notes.
>>>> There used to be an image for each device. Now there is only 3 for 
>>>> all devices. Actually there is 6 three light three dark but only 
>>>> three for any mode. How is this going to work?
>>>> 
>>>> Ralph DiMola
>>>> IT Director
>>>> Evergreen Information Services
>>>> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] 
>>>> On Behalf Of panagiotis merakos via use-livecode
>>>> Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 9:00 AM
>>>> To: How to use LiveCode
>>>> Cc: panagiotis merakos
>>>> Subject: [ANN] Release 9.6.0 RC-1
>>>> 
>>>> Dear list members,
>>>> 
>>>> We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 9.6.0 RC-1.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Getting the Release
>>>> ===================
>>>> You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/
>>>> or via the automatic updater.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Release Contents
>>>> ================
>>>> LiveCode 9.6.0 RC-1 comes with more than 30 changes, including:
>>>> 
>>>> New Features
>>>> - Support for Storyboard launch images and backgrounds on iOS
>>>> - Support for using the flash as a torch in the Android Barcode 
>>>> Scanner
>>>> - Support for building with Xcode 11.4, using the iOS 13.4 SDK
>>>> - New tsNet and mergExt builds, built with the iOS 13.4 SDK
>>>> 
>>>> Bug Fixes:
>>>> - Improvements in the text-to-speech library
>>>> - Improvements in the iOS native browser
>>>> - Improvements in the camera control object
>>>> - Significant performance improvement when saving stacks on Windows
>>>> - Improvements in the Windows FFI in LCB
>>>> 
>>>> For the full list of all fixes, updates and enhancements please see 
>>>> the release notes:
>>>> http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/9_6_0/LiveCodeNotes-9_6_0_rc_1.
>>>> pdf
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Known issues
>>>> ============
>>>> - The Browser widget's native layer is not shown in some Linux 
>>>> distros with Cinnamon window manager.
>>>> - The use of the Browser widget is not supported on Ubuntu 18.04 64 
>>>> bit LTS yet.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Required Software
>>>> =================
>>>> To build iOS apps with LiveCode you must have the appropriate 
>>>> versions of Xcode as follows:
>>>> 
>>>> - macOS 10.13.4: Xcode 10.1 - LiveCode builds iOS apps using the 
>>>> iOS
>>>> 12.1 SDK
>>>> - macOS 10.14.4: Xcode 11.3.x - LiveCode builds iOS apps using the 
>>>> iOS
>>>> 13.2 SDK
>>>> - macOS 10.15.2: Xcode 11.4.x - LiveCode builds iOS apps using the 
>>>> iOS
>>>> 13.4 SDK
>>>> 
>>>> There is a full list of working LiveCode/macOS/Xcode combinations here:
>>>> https://livecode.com/docs/9-5-0/faq/faq/
>>>> 
>>>> Note: Whilst we endeavour to release updated versions of LiveCode 
>>>> supporting the latest Xcode/iOS SDKs as quickly as possible; we 
>>>> strongly recommend disabling automatic update of Xcode or 
>>>> downloading the specific version of Xcode required directly from 
>>>> the Apple developer portal and installing it separately.
>>>> 
>>>> Important: From the end of June 2020, Apple will only be accepting 
>>>> apps built using iOS13 SDKs. This means that, if you wish to submit 
>>>> apps to the AppStore you will have to be running at least macOS
>>>> 10.14 in order to be able to install the necessary version of Xcode.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Feedback
>>>> ========
>>>> Please report any bugs encountered on our quality center at 
>>>> http://quality.livecode.com/
>>>> 
>>>> We have a forum available for discussing LiveCode Builder at
>>>> http://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=93
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Have fun!
>>>> The LiveCode Team
>>>> --
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>>> subscription
>>>> preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>> subscription
>>> preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
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> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
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From mark at livecode.com  Tue May 12 09:03:05 2020
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Tue, 12 May 2020 14:03:05 +0100
Subject: [ANN] Release 9.6.0 RC-1
In-Reply-To: <000601d6285b$3637f460$a2a7dd20$@net>
References: <CA+JfEq8=wG-amx+gEh7nvohr=t+Kcb=Ka=uHXH7gRrOX2nXRhA@mail.gmail.com>
 <006601d627a4$512afd60$f380f820$@net>
 <CA+JfEq-TAnYO6VmNxh+wNVD0A5gRmq67Qdf4XWmYzvC43vAyqQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <006b01d627aa$2f6b67e0$8e4237a0$@net>
 <CA+JfEq-XtQG8YU9tOVZ6APQOT9LmYROiYHxvh+URGHxWHSowiA@mail.gmail.com>
 <8CD96995-577D-47D9-885A-98DD09307C53@appisle.net>
 <000001d62808$d6303020$82909060$@net>
 <CD00CA8E-FDAD-4961-9E66-7951AAE3BAD8@appisle.net>
 <000601d6285b$3637f460$a2a7dd20$@net>
Message-ID: <89663d72fd2d0e3a5c62626a92e93560@livecode.com>

On 2020-05-12 13:45, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote:
> Monte/LC Team,
> 
> I understand that you have limited resources. Could there be a
> comprise here to share the workload? Instead of LC having to support
> and change the iOS standalone options every time there is a new iOS
> device format we(LC USERS) could pickup this pain. If there could be 2
> options for splash screens this could work out for all.
> 1) Users can use the present 9.6 rc1 storyboard options.
> 2) Users could supply a file of resolutions and associated image names
> for each specific resolution the user wanted to supply a custom image
> for. If there is not a match then the images in the current 9.6 rc1
> standalone splash screen implementation would be used.
> 
> This would put the splash screen implementation of current and new
> screen specs squarely in hands of the LC user while retaining the
> current seamless transition from splash to card 1. (if the LC user
> wanted to put in the effort).

Unfortunately I'm not sure this is possible.

Apple are (soon) going to require all apps to use a launch storyboard - 
specifying launch images is no longer viable if you want your app in the 
AppStore.

When we started adding storyboards I asked Monte to see if there was a 
way to allow current settings to work (i.e. build a storyboard which 
uses the same images currently specified in the same way), and also 
offer a simplified option (which is what has transpired in 9.6)...

Unfortunately it would seem that storyboards do not allow images to be 
chosen based on screen size - just device type (iPhone vs iPad) and 
generalized layout types (normal vs compact) - this means there appears 
to be no way to replicate what you could do with simple launch images.

Apple HIG for this is a great ideal - but in reality (as far as I can 
see) the only apps which can do that are those which use only iOS native 
controls (the idea is that you have a launch storyboard which contains 
skeleton controls from your first screen). Any app which relies on 
customized controls (even intermingled with iOS ones) cannot achieve 
what Apple suggests.

What we have wasn't something we just quickly did at the last minute 
there was a concerted effort (as there always is) to preserve what we 
already had, but we did not manage to find a way :(

That being said, it is possible that we have missed a storyboard 
capability somewhere, so if someone can figure out how to create a 
launch storyboard which *does* select images based on screen size (in a 
similar way to launch images work), then I can be pretty confident we 
will be able to generalize it to provide similar settings to the current 
ones in the S/B.

Currently the plan is to (in 9.7 hopefully!) to try and allow a custom 
storyboard - so you can design one in Xcode and then provide it along 
with the assets it needs to the standalone builder to build into your 
app. We think we can do this (there are some technical details with 
referencing the assets and such) but for the reason outlined above, this 
still won't bring back the much simpler 'provide many launch images' 
capability.

Warmest Regards,

Mark.


-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps



From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Tue May 12 10:03:01 2020
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Tue, 12 May 2020 10:03:01 -0400
Subject: mergGoogle source OSS'd
Message-ID: <CADCoycOZNiVKJmgQp=2b_XBer8HE2e-yPnFcoDcQp-pXx0o-fQ@mail.gmail.com>

LC has decided to deprecate mergGoogle, which is disappointing since my
company uses it hourly to generate reports from our ERP system that our
customers can use to check up on you-name-it.
However, LC also generously agreed to OSS it, so here it is.
https://github.com/macMikey/merggoogle

-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."


From scott at elementarysoftware.com  Tue May 12 10:49:38 2020
From: scott at elementarysoftware.com (scott at elementarysoftware.com)
Date: Tue, 12 May 2020 07:49:38 -0700
Subject: [ANN] Release 9.6.0 RC-1
In-Reply-To: <89663d72fd2d0e3a5c62626a92e93560@livecode.com>
References: <CA+JfEq8=wG-amx+gEh7nvohr=t+Kcb=Ka=uHXH7gRrOX2nXRhA@mail.gmail.com>
 <006601d627a4$512afd60$f380f820$@net>
 <CA+JfEq-TAnYO6VmNxh+wNVD0A5gRmq67Qdf4XWmYzvC43vAyqQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <006b01d627aa$2f6b67e0$8e4237a0$@net>
 <CA+JfEq-XtQG8YU9tOVZ6APQOT9LmYROiYHxvh+URGHxWHSowiA@mail.gmail.com>
 <8CD96995-577D-47D9-885A-98DD09307C53@appisle.net>
 <000001d62808$d6303020$82909060$@net>
 <CD00CA8E-FDAD-4961-9E66-7951AAE3BAD8@appisle.net>
 <000601d6285b$3637f460$a2a7dd20$@net>
 <89663d72fd2d0e3a5c62626a92e93560@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <1695C0BF-E948-4DBE-83EE-0025C054351F@elementarysoftware.com>

Mark and Monte, thanks for clarifying.

?
Scott

> On May 12, 2020, at 6:03 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> On 2020-05-12 13:45, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote:
>> Monte/LC Team,
>> I understand that you have limited resources. Could there be a
>> comprise here to share the workload? Instead of LC having to support
>> and change the iOS standalone options every time there is a new iOS
>> device format we(LC USERS) could pickup this pain. If there could be 2
>> options for splash screens this could work out for all.
>> 1) Users can use the present 9.6 rc1 storyboard options.
>> 2) Users could supply a file of resolutions and associated image names
>> for each specific resolution the user wanted to supply a custom image
>> for. If there is not a match then the images in the current 9.6 rc1
>> standalone splash screen implementation would be used.
>> This would put the splash screen implementation of current and new
>> screen specs squarely in hands of the LC user while retaining the
>> current seamless transition from splash to card 1. (if the LC user
>> wanted to put in the effort).
> 
> Unfortunately I'm not sure this is possible.
> 
> Apple are (soon) going to require all apps to use a launch storyboard - specifying launch images is no longer viable if you want your app in the AppStore.
> 
> When we started adding storyboards I asked Monte to see if there was a way to allow current settings to work (i.e. build a storyboard which uses the same images currently specified in the same way), and also offer a simplified option (which is what has transpired in 9.6)...
> 
> Unfortunately it would seem that storyboards do not allow images to be chosen based on screen size - just device type (iPhone vs iPad) and generalized layout types (normal vs compact) - this means there appears to be no way to replicate what you could do with simple launch images.
> 
> Apple HIG for this is a great ideal - but in reality (as far as I can see) the only apps which can do that are those which use only iOS native controls (the idea is that you have a launch storyboard which contains skeleton controls from your first screen). Any app which relies on customized controls (even intermingled with iOS ones) cannot achieve what Apple suggests.
> 
> What we have wasn't something we just quickly did at the last minute there was a concerted effort (as there always is) to preserve what we already had, but we did not manage to find a way :(
> 
> That being said, it is possible that we have missed a storyboard capability somewhere, so if someone can figure out how to create a launch storyboard which *does* select images based on screen size (in a similar way to launch images work), then I can be pretty confident we will be able to generalize it to provide similar settings to the current ones in the S/B.
> 
> Currently the plan is to (in 9.7 hopefully!) to try and allow a custom storyboard - so you can design one in Xcode and then provide it along with the assets it needs to the standalone builder to build into your app. We think we can do this (there are some technical details with referencing the assets and such) but for the reason outlined above, this still won't bring back the much simpler 'provide many launch images' capability.
> 
> Warmest Regards,
> 
> Mark.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Tue May 12 11:26:29 2020
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Tue, 12 May 2020 11:26:29 -0400
Subject: [ANN] Release 9.6.0 RC-1
In-Reply-To: <89663d72fd2d0e3a5c62626a92e93560@livecode.com>
References: <CA+JfEq8=wG-amx+gEh7nvohr=t+Kcb=Ka=uHXH7gRrOX2nXRhA@mail.gmail.com>
 <006601d627a4$512afd60$f380f820$@net>
 <CA+JfEq-TAnYO6VmNxh+wNVD0A5gRmq67Qdf4XWmYzvC43vAyqQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <006b01d627aa$2f6b67e0$8e4237a0$@net>
 <CA+JfEq-XtQG8YU9tOVZ6APQOT9LmYROiYHxvh+URGHxWHSowiA@mail.gmail.com>
 <8CD96995-577D-47D9-885A-98DD09307C53@appisle.net>
 <000001d62808$d6303020$82909060$@net>
 <CD00CA8E-FDAD-4961-9E66-7951AAE3BAD8@appisle.net>
 <000601d6285b$3637f460$a2a7dd20$@net>
 <89663d72fd2d0e3a5c62626a92e93560@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <000d01d62871$b8e37c20$2aaa7460$@net>

Monte/Mark thanks from me also! I am looking now at creating launch
storyboards. I will dig in and see what I can find.

Have a good evening.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net


-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf
Of Mark Waddingham via use-livecode
Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2020 9:03 AM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: Mark Waddingham
Subject: Re: [ANN] Release 9.6.0 RC-1

On 2020-05-12 13:45, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote:
> Monte/LC Team,
> 
> I understand that you have limited resources. Could there be a 
> comprise here to share the workload? Instead of LC having to support 
> and change the iOS standalone options every time there is a new iOS 
> device format we(LC USERS) could pickup this pain. If there could be 2 
> options for splash screens this could work out for all.
> 1) Users can use the present 9.6 rc1 storyboard options.
> 2) Users could supply a file of resolutions and associated image names 
> for each specific resolution the user wanted to supply a custom image 
> for. If there is not a match then the images in the current 9.6 rc1 
> standalone splash screen implementation would be used.
> 
> This would put the splash screen implementation of current and new 
> screen specs squarely in hands of the LC user while retaining the 
> current seamless transition from splash to card 1. (if the LC user 
> wanted to put in the effort).

Unfortunately I'm not sure this is possible.

Apple are (soon) going to require all apps to use a launch storyboard -
specifying launch images is no longer viable if you want your app in the
AppStore.

When we started adding storyboards I asked Monte to see if there was a way
to allow current settings to work (i.e. build a storyboard which uses the
same images currently specified in the same way), and also offer a
simplified option (which is what has transpired in 9.6)...

Unfortunately it would seem that storyboards do not allow images to be
chosen based on screen size - just device type (iPhone vs iPad) and
generalized layout types (normal vs compact) - this means there appears to
be no way to replicate what you could do with simple launch images.

Apple HIG for this is a great ideal - but in reality (as far as I can
see) the only apps which can do that are those which use only iOS native
controls (the idea is that you have a launch storyboard which contains
skeleton controls from your first screen). Any app which relies on
customized controls (even intermingled with iOS ones) cannot achieve what
Apple suggests.

What we have wasn't something we just quickly did at the last minute there
was a concerted effort (as there always is) to preserve what we already had,
but we did not manage to find a way :(

That being said, it is possible that we have missed a storyboard capability
somewhere, so if someone can figure out how to create a launch storyboard
which *does* select images based on screen size (in a similar way to launch
images work), then I can be pretty confident we will be able to generalize
it to provide similar settings to the current ones in the S/B.

Currently the plan is to (in 9.7 hopefully!) to try and allow a custom
storyboard - so you can design one in Xcode and then provide it along with
the assets it needs to the standalone builder to build into your app. We
think we can do this (there are some technical details with referencing the
assets and such) but for the reason outlined above, this still won't bring
back the much simpler 'provide many launch images' 
capability.

Warmest Regards,

Mark.


--
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps

_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From panos.merakos at livecode.com  Tue May 12 12:17:08 2020
From: panos.merakos at livecode.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Tue, 12 May 2020 19:17:08 +0300
Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 225
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq-zGbTLwTqmujpeYug2TdKPFt9eCY+XcwLBVPco1tj6RQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

Read about new developments in LiveCode open source and the open source
community in today's edition of the "This Week in LiveCode" newsletter!

        Read issue #225 here: https://bit.ly/35QGXQn

This is a weekly newsletter about LiveCode, focussing on what's been
going on in and around the open source project. New issues will be
released weekly on Mondays. We have a dedicated mailing list that will
deliver each issue directly to you e-mail, so you don't miss any!

If you have anything you'd like mentioned (a project, a discussion
somewhere, an upcoming event) then please get in touch.


-- 
Panagiotis Merakos <panos.merakos at livecode.com>
LiveCode Software Developer

Everyone Can Create Apps <https://livecode.com>


From rabit at revigniter.com  Tue May 12 14:07:21 2020
From: rabit at revigniter.com (Ralf Bitter)
Date: Tue, 12 May 2020 20:07:21 +0200
Subject: mergDocCanOpen opens iOS sharing menu
Message-ID: <E9AE129A-9359-4294-B724-14154871106D@revigniter.com>

Seems there is an issue with mergDocCanOpen(). Whenever this function
is called the iOS sharing menu shows up for a short moment at the top
of the screen. I am running LC 9.6.0 (rc1) and iOS SDK 13.2. The particular
script including this function worked fine in earlier versions.

Does anybody have a recipe to avoid this undesirable behavior?

Ralf



From monte at appisle.net  Tue May 12 18:42:03 2020
From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding)
Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 08:42:03 +1000
Subject: mergDocCanOpen opens iOS sharing menu
In-Reply-To: <E9AE129A-9359-4294-B724-14154871106D@revigniter.com>
References: <E9AE129A-9359-4294-B724-14154871106D@revigniter.com>
Message-ID: <1B8334BC-38D2-4FCA-85A7-AE16599AADE1@appisle.net>

Hi Ralf

It might be that `mergDocCanOpen` needs to be deprecated as it relied on a hack and Apple must have changed the behavior. Checking the result after `mergDocShow*` commands will still report if the document interaction controller was able to be shown for the document.

Cheers

Monte

> On 13 May 2020, at 4:07 am, Ralf Bitter via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Seems there is an issue with mergDocCanOpen(). Whenever this function
> is called the iOS sharing menu shows up for a short moment at the top
> of the screen. I am running LC 9.6.0 (rc1) and iOS SDK 13.2. The particular
> script including this function worked fine in earlier versions.
> 
> Does anybody have a recipe to avoid this undesirable behavior?
> 
> Ralf
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From gwendalwood at cox.net  Tue May 12 19:11:27 2020
From: gwendalwood at cox.net (GEORGE WOOD)
Date: Tue, 12 May 2020 19:11:27 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Print to pdf
Message-ID: <631623345.16730.1589325087286@myemail.cox.net>

Is the "open printing to pdf filename" not working any longer? I have tried everything according to the dictionary, but it always fails with the result being "printing failed." Any usable workarounds? Thanks for any suggestions.


From gwendalwood at cox.net  Tue May 12 19:23:27 2020
From: gwendalwood at cox.net (GEORGE WOOD)
Date: Tue, 12 May 2020 19:23:27 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Open printing to pdf
Message-ID: <697004349.516749.1589325807371@myemail.cox.net>

Here is on example of what I tried:

on mouseup

put ??/Desktop?/test files/Test.pdf? into temp

open printing to pdf temp

print cd 1 from (topleft of cd 1) to (bottomright of cd 1)

close printing

put the result

end mouseup

From phil at pdslabs.net  Tue May 12 20:55:14 2020
From: phil at pdslabs.net (Phil Davis)
Date: Tue, 12 May 2020 17:55:14 -0700
Subject: Open printing to pdf
In-Reply-To: <697004349.516749.1589325807371@myemail.cox.net>
References: <697004349.516749.1589325807371@myemail.cox.net>
Message-ID: <6bd45b0c-0be8-c66a-0617-e4e4157bb055@pdslabs.net>

What happens if you remove the space from the file path? Does it still 
behave the same?

Phil Davis


On 5/12/20 4:23 PM, GEORGE WOOD via use-livecode wrote:
> Here is on example of what I tried:
>
> on mouseup
>
> put ??/Desktop?/test files/Test.pdf? into temp
>
> open printing to pdf temp
>
> print cd 1 from (topleft of cd 1) to (bottomright of cd 1)
>
> close printing
>
> put the result
>
> end mouseup
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

-- 
Phil Davis
503-307-4363




From alanstenhouse at hotmail.com  Tue May 12 21:39:30 2020
From: alanstenhouse at hotmail.com (Alan Stenhouse)
Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 11:09:30 +0930
Subject: LC9.6 Android EXIF image data issue
Message-ID: <PS2PR02MB293512B8942DE507F63A3FD8A5BF0@PS2PR02MB2935.apcprd02.prod.outlook.com>

There seems to be an issue with getting EXIF data from images using mobilePickPhoto on Android (well, at least new Samsung mobile phones).

I *think* this is a new bug with LC 9.6, but as I don't have a relevant phone to test with, it's sorta difficult to check further. Particularly as we couldn't even use mobilePickPhoto on these phones prior to 9.6!

Has anyone else seen this at all? If it's a new issue then it'd be great to get it resolved in the 9.6 cycle.

cheers

Alan


From monte at appisle.net  Tue May 12 22:03:41 2020
From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding)
Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 12:03:41 +1000
Subject: LC9.6 Android EXIF image data issue
In-Reply-To: <PS2PR02MB293512B8942DE507F63A3FD8A5BF0@PS2PR02MB2935.apcprd02.prod.outlook.com>
References: <PS2PR02MB293512B8942DE507F63A3FD8A5BF0@PS2PR02MB2935.apcprd02.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <4AC029AB-1FE4-4B42-8E8C-61509C1AE0D6@appisle.net>

Hi Alan

EXIF data from the returned photo in mobilePickPhoto probably shouldn?t be relied upon. On iOS it definitely won?t be there. On Android it definitely won?t be there if calling mobilePickPhoto with width and height parameters but if those parameters aren?t used it might be there (depending on what the camera app does).

Cheers

Monte

> On 13 May 2020, at 11:39 am, Alan Stenhouse via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> There seems to be an issue with getting EXIF data from images using mobilePickPhoto on Android (well, at least new Samsung mobile phones).
> 
> I *think* this is a new bug with LC 9.6, but as I don't have a relevant phone to test with, it's sorta difficult to check further. Particularly as we couldn't even use mobilePickPhoto on these phones prior to 9.6!
> 
> Has anyone else seen this at all? If it's a new issue then it'd be great to get it resolved in the 9.6 cycle.
> 
> cheers
> 
> Alan
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed May 13 02:55:36 2020
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 12 May 2020 23:55:36 -0700
Subject: Open printing to pdf
In-Reply-To: <697004349.516749.1589325807371@myemail.cox.net>
References: <697004349.516749.1589325807371@myemail.cox.net>
Message-ID: <f18564a7-c70c-4271-003c-1c9caef29505@fourthworld.com>

GEORGE WOOD wrote:

 > Here is on example of what I tried:
 >
 > on mouseup
 >  put ??/Desktop?/test files/Test.pdf? into temp
 >  open printing to pdf temp
 >  print cd 1 from (topleft of cd 1) to (bottomright of cd 1)
 >  close printing
 >  put the result
 > end mouseup

"the result" returns exception info for the last command executed. In 
that case it's the "close printing" command.

Move it a line up and it'll tell you what's happening with the print 
command.

But add an error-check just after "open printing..." and I'll bet you'll 
find the culprit:

You path begins with "/", which signifies the root of the volume.  But 
"Desktop" is in the root, it's in the user's Home folder at (assuming Mac):

   /Users/<yourname>/Desktop/

Using specialFolderPath("Desktop") will always return the correct path 
on all platforms with a Desktop.

But in your case, you can do something even simpler:

   put "~/Desktop/test files/Test.pdf" into temp

The leading "~" is shorthand for the current user's folder.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com




From rabit at revigniter.com  Wed May 13 04:25:10 2020
From: rabit at revigniter.com (Ralf Bitter)
Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 10:25:10 +0200
Subject: mergDocCanOpen opens iOS sharing menu
In-Reply-To: <1B8334BC-38D2-4FCA-85A7-AE16599AADE1@appisle.net>
References: <E9AE129A-9359-4294-B724-14154871106D@revigniter.com>
 <1B8334BC-38D2-4FCA-85A7-AE16599AADE1@appisle.net>
Message-ID: <E35C9267-A15D-4A79-94A2-FD4FF47FFE59@revigniter.com>

Hi Monte,

thanks very much for taking the time to respond.


Ralf



> On 13. May 2020, at 00:42, Monte Goulding via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Ralf
> 
> It might be that `mergDocCanOpen` needs to be deprecated as it relied on a hack and Apple must have changed the behavior. Checking the result after `mergDocShow*` commands will still report if the document interaction controller was able to be shown for the document.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Monte
> 
>> On 13 May 2020, at 4:07 am, Ralf Bitter via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> Seems there is an issue with mergDocCanOpen(). Whenever this function
>> is called the iOS sharing menu shows up for a short moment at the top
>> of the screen. I am running LC 9.6.0 (rc1) and iOS SDK 13.2. The particular
>> script including this function worked fine in earlier versions.
>> 
>> Does anybody have a recipe to avoid this undesirable behavior?
>> 
>> Ralf




From merakosp at gmail.com  Wed May 13 09:05:24 2020
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 16:05:24 +0300
Subject: Print to pdf
In-Reply-To: <631623345.16730.1589325087286@myemail.cox.net>
References: <631623345.16730.1589325087286@myemail.cox.net>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq99+ypcBqPpxwkK4HfxgR5_uj-9YN2m0voqoOzS=RdmVQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello George,

What LiveCode version are you using? In which platform?

Kind regards,
Panos
--

On Wed, 13 May 2020 at 02:12, GEORGE WOOD via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Is the "open printing to pdf filename" not working any longer? I have
> tried everything according to the dictionary, but it always fails with the
> result being "printing failed." Any usable workarounds? Thanks for any
> suggestions.
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From gwendalwood at cox.net  Wed May 13 17:30:18 2020
From: gwendalwood at cox.net (GEORGE WOOD)
Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 17:30:18 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Print to pdf
Message-ID: <1775073571.16049.1589405418716@myemail.cox.net>

Found my errors and it is working fine now. Thanks


From alanstenhouse at hotmail.com  Wed May 13 18:54:57 2020
From: alanstenhouse at hotmail.com (Alan Stenhouse)
Date: Thu, 14 May 2020 08:24:57 +0930
Subject: LC9.6 Android EXIF image data issue
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1589385601.187755.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
References: <mailman.1.1589385601.187755.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <TY2PR02MB2944A55E634284EBC7955494A5BF0@TY2PR02MB2944.apcprd02.prod.outlook.com>

Hi Monte

Thanks for the info, though that is bad news. It had previously come through on iOS ok - when picking a photo from the library, and also on Android AFAIK.

Do we have any way of getting EXIF data from an image picked from an image library using MobilePickPhoto?

Thanks again for the info!

cheers

Alan

> On 13 May 2020 12:03:41 +1000,Monte Goulding wrote:
> 
> EXIF data from the returned photo in mobilePickPhoto probably shouldn?t be relied upon. On iOS it definitely won?t be there. On Android it definitely won?t be there if calling mobilePickPhoto with width and height parameters but if those parameters aren?t used it might be there (depending on what the camera app does).
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Monte
> 
>> On 13 May 2020, at 11:39 am, Alan Stenhouse via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> There seems to be an issue with getting EXIF data from images using mobilePickPhoto on Android (well, at least new Samsung mobile phones).
>> 
>> I *think* this is a new bug with LC 9.6, but as I don't have a relevant phone to test with, it's sorta difficult to check further. Particularly as we couldn't even use mobilePickPhoto on these phones prior to 9.6!
>> 
>> Has anyone else seen this at all? If it's a new issue then it'd be great to get it resolved in the 9.6 cycle.



From terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au  Wed May 13 22:39:30 2020
From: terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd)
Date: Thu, 14 May 2020 02:39:30 +0000
Subject: Anyone willing to share a basic webpage template for LC HTML5
 apps?
In-Reply-To: <33E35A7C-F38E-41D0-B4EF-BBD884E709C0@unimelb.edu.au>
References: <33E35A7C-F38E-41D0-B4EF-BBD884E709C0@unimelb.edu.au>
Message-ID: <3E632750-6C42-4F8E-B042-D83DCA7BDA5C@unimelb.edu.au>

Hi - I've got a couple of HTML5 apps that I want to deploy to students at my uni and was wondering if anyone had a fairly basic starting webpage that I could use rather than the one that LC generates automatically.

If possible I'm looking to lose  the elements in the top section (LC logo, resize canvas and lock/hide mouse pointer checkboxes and the fullscreen button) and just retain a basic download indicator. There is also a debug? section that appears below the canvas that I would like to remove if possible.

My actual HTML skills are rudimentary at best so I'm reluctant to try editing the LC generated html file and the 'skeleton' page that is mentioned in the HTML5 deployment guide (via the dictionary) seems a bit too basic as it has no loader.

If anyone has a template page that they would be willing to share I'd be very grateful.

BTW, I have a HTML5 license so I think I'm ok to drop off the LC logo and links.

Regards,

Terry...


From mark at livecode.com  Thu May 14 03:16:20 2020
From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham)
Date: Thu, 14 May 2020 08:16:20 +0100
Subject: LC9.6 Android EXIF image data issue
In-Reply-To: <TY2PR02MB2944A55E634284EBC7955494A5BF0@TY2PR02MB2944.apcprd02.prod.outlook.com>
References: <mailman.1.1589385601.187755.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
 <TY2PR02MB2944A55E634284EBC7955494A5BF0@TY2PR02MB2944.apcprd02.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <609478b1e85f4377083bcc269783532e@livecode.com>

On 2020-05-13 23:54, Alan Stenhouse via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi Monte
> 
> Thanks for the info, though that is bad news. It had previously come
> through on iOS ok - when picking a photo from the library, and also on
> Android AFAIK.
> 
> Do we have any way of getting EXIF data from an image picked from an
> image library using MobilePickPhoto?
> 
> Thanks again for the info!

iOS definitely strips EXIF data in some cases - perhaps it is just from 
photos taken with the camera or maybe it varies slightly with OS 
version.

The Android case you are observing is probably because the EXIF data is 
being stripped also.

Assuming you don't use a width/height argument on mobilePickPhoto then 
we just return the data which we are given with no processing at all - 
so you are getting what the OS wants you to get.

It might be that Samsung's camera app is a little more security 
conscious than other Android variants :(

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

-- 
Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps



From livfoss at mac.com  Thu May 14 06:17:13 2020
From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel)
Date: Thu, 14 May 2020 12:17:13 +0200
Subject: Small and strange problem
In-Reply-To: <53C7D3E8-59BF-4F5E-BE8A-0305CEB17B3E@livecode.org>
References: <5149994.244134.1589185448424.JavaMail.administrator@n4.nabble.com>
 <2175FE2F-58A1-4EFA-AAC1-073FFE98027A@all-auctions.com>
 <86e4d02f-58fc-05aa-8c69-5cd1ed8253cb@cogapp.com>
 <53C7D3E8-59BF-4F5E-BE8A-0305CEB17B3E@livecode.org>
Message-ID: <816330EE-9E63-4230-8093-2C47D41506E5@mac.com>

Hi Paul

Sorry for the delay in replying but my house has just been inundated (it happened on Monday and we are still clearing up! Worst flood in more than 40 years in my French village). Anyway, the bug is registered as 22730. The problem is acknowledged - as I said in my submission, I?m not claiming my coding is correct, I?m just trying to show that the IDE doesn?t behave consistently in this instance.

Graham

> On 11 May 2020, at 23:18, Paul Hibbert via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Good point Ben, looks like that was my mistake. I don?t remember where I learned to use "if tError then?, but what I forgot was that it should have been testing for a false condition, so ?if not tError then? does show the error when one occurs and skips when no error occurs.
> 
> Fixing this returns the following error when tMins contains a non numeric character;
> An Error Occurred; 375,5,1
> 239,5,1
> 465,5,1
> tMins = 31?
> 
> These are the corresponding LC Error Codes;
> 375	Operators /: error in left operand
> 239	Operators (): error in right operand
> 465	put: error in expression
> 
> So it seems the value passed to tMins may contain invalid character(s) as Graham suspects. However, this doesn?t explain why the original script should behave differently using the debugger and not.
> 
> @Graham, can you post the Bug Report Number please?
> 
> Paul
> 
> 
>> On May 11, 2020, at 09:11, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> And re this part:
>> 
>>>> Interestingly this
>>>> 
>>>> on mouseUp pMouseButton
>>>>  try
>>>>    put (tMins/60) into tMins
>>>>  catch tError
>>>>    if tError then answer "An Error Occurred;"  && tError & return & "tMins =" && tMins
>>>>  end try
>>>> end mouseUp
>>>> 
>>>> does NOT through an error or a catch error message
>> 
>> You're not seeing that there was an error thrown because 'tError' would be set to the error message; the code above is testing for it being true, before deciding to display the message. But it won't be true it, it will be an expression of the error. If you removed "if tError then", so always execute the answer statement in the catch section, you should see the error message.
>> 
>> HTH,
>> 
>> Ben
>> 
>> 
>> On 11/05/2020 15:31, Rick Harrison via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Hi Andy,
>>> Yes, tMins has to have a value or the statement makes no sense because LC has no
>>> context for what you are trying to do.  LC doesn?t know if tMins is a string or something else.
>>> Rick
>>>> On May 11, 2020, at 4:24 AM, AndyP via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I seem to have my posts dropped at the moment hence this,
>>>> 
>>>> I'm seeing the same error
>>>> 
>>>> with
>>>> 
>>>> on mouseUp pMouseButton
>>>> put (tMins/60) into tMins
>>>> answer tMins
>>>> end mouseUp
>>>> 
>>>> button "Button": execution error at line 2 (Operators /: error in left operand), char 1
>>>> 
>>>> Interestingly this
>>>> 
>>>> on mouseUp pMouseButton
>>>> try
>>>>   put (tMins/60) into tMins
>>>> catch tError
>>>>   if tError then answer "An Error Occurred;"  && tError & return & "tMins =" && tMins
>>>> end try
>>>> end mouseUp
>>>> 
>>>> does NOT through an error or a catch error message
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> If however tMins is initialized then all works as expected
>>>> 
>>>> on mouseUp pMouseButton
>>>> put 20 into tMins
>>>> put (tMins/60) into tMins
>>>> answer tMins
>>>> end mouseUp
>>>> 
>>>> ???
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From paul at livecode.org  Thu May 14 11:13:22 2020
From: paul at livecode.org (Paul Hibbert)
Date: Thu, 14 May 2020 08:13:22 -0700
Subject: Small and strange problem
In-Reply-To: <816330EE-9E63-4230-8093-2C47D41506E5@mac.com>
References: <5149994.244134.1589185448424.JavaMail.administrator@n4.nabble.com>
 <2175FE2F-58A1-4EFA-AAC1-073FFE98027A@all-auctions.com>
 <86e4d02f-58fc-05aa-8c69-5cd1ed8253cb@cogapp.com>
 <53C7D3E8-59BF-4F5E-BE8A-0305CEB17B3E@livecode.org>
 <816330EE-9E63-4230-8093-2C47D41506E5@mac.com>
Message-ID: <15327EEC-98C9-4EA5-86A2-0B669B621050@livecode.org>

Hi Graham,

Thank you for the update. Sorry to hear about the flood, I know from personal experience what that?s like so I really wish you and your family well, and that you can get your home and life back in to normal very soon..

Paul

> On May 14, 2020, at 03:17, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Paul
> 
> Sorry for the delay in replying but my house has just been inundated (it happened on Monday and we are still clearing up! Worst flood in more than 40 years in my French village). Anyway, the bug is registered as 22730. The problem is acknowledged - as I said in my submission, I?m not claiming my coding is correct, I?m just trying to show that the IDE doesn?t behave consistently in this instance.
> 
> Graham
> 
>> On 11 May 2020, at 23:18, Paul Hibbert via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Good point Ben, looks like that was my mistake. I don?t remember where I learned to use "if tError then?, but what I forgot was that it should have been testing for a false condition, so ?if not tError then? does show the error when one occurs and skips when no error occurs.
>> 
>> Fixing this returns the following error when tMins contains a non numeric character;
>> An Error Occurred; 375,5,1
>> 239,5,1
>> 465,5,1
>> tMins = 31?
>> 
>> These are the corresponding LC Error Codes;
>> 375	Operators /: error in left operand
>> 239	Operators (): error in right operand
>> 465	put: error in expression
>> 
>> So it seems the value passed to tMins may contain invalid character(s) as Graham suspects. However, this doesn?t explain why the original script should behave differently using the debugger and not.
>> 
>> @Graham, can you post the Bug Report Number please?
>> 
>> Paul
>> 
>> 
>>> On May 11, 2020, at 09:11, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> And re this part:
>>> 
>>>>> Interestingly this
>>>>> 
>>>>> on mouseUp pMouseButton
>>>>> try
>>>>>   put (tMins/60) into tMins
>>>>> catch tError
>>>>>   if tError then answer "An Error Occurred;"  && tError & return & "tMins =" && tMins
>>>>> end try
>>>>> end mouseUp
>>>>> 
>>>>> does NOT through an error or a catch error message
>>> 
>>> You're not seeing that there was an error thrown because 'tError' would be set to the error message; the code above is testing for it being true, before deciding to display the message. But it won't be true it, it will be an expression of the error. If you removed "if tError then", so always execute the answer statement in the catch section, you should see the error message.
>>> 
>>> HTH,
>>> 
>>> Ben
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 11/05/2020 15:31, Rick Harrison via use-livecode wrote:
>>>> Hi Andy,
>>>> Yes, tMins has to have a value or the statement makes no sense because LC has no
>>>> context for what you are trying to do.  LC doesn?t know if tMins is a string or something else.
>>>> Rick
>>>>> On May 11, 2020, at 4:24 AM, AndyP via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I seem to have my posts dropped at the moment hence this,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I'm seeing the same error
>>>>> 
>>>>> with
>>>>> 
>>>>> on mouseUp pMouseButton
>>>>> put (tMins/60) into tMins
>>>>> answer tMins
>>>>> end mouseUp
>>>>> 
>>>>> button "Button": execution error at line 2 (Operators /: error in left operand), char 1
>>>>> 
>>>>> Interestingly this
>>>>> 
>>>>> on mouseUp pMouseButton
>>>>> try
>>>>>  put (tMins/60) into tMins
>>>>> catch tError
>>>>>  if tError then answer "An Error Occurred;"  && tError & return & "tMins =" && tMins
>>>>> end try
>>>>> end mouseUp
>>>>> 
>>>>> does NOT through an error or a catch error message
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> If however tMins is initialized then all works as expected
>>>>> 
>>>>> on mouseUp pMouseButton
>>>>> put 20 into tMins
>>>>> put (tMins/60) into tMins
>>>>> answer tMins
>>>>> end mouseUp
>>>>> 
>>>>> ???
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From devin_asay at byu.edu  Thu May 14 11:15:06 2020
From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay)
Date: Thu, 14 May 2020 15:15:06 +0000
Subject: Externals Question from Stack Overflow
Message-ID: <AA875F8F-E0EA-44EC-B949-5DDAB34DED90@byu.edu>

Hi all,

I came across a question on Stack Overflow from a sight-impaired user who is trying to figure out how to write and test a LiveCode external. I am pretty ignorant about externals in general, so I don?t think I can help in this case. But if anyone here feels inclined, I think it would help this user, and boost the number of responses to LC questions on Stack Overflow.

Regards,

Devin


Devin Asay
Director
Office of Digital Humanities
Brigham Young University


From devin_asay at byu.edu  Thu May 14 11:29:14 2020
From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay)
Date: Thu, 14 May 2020 15:29:14 +0000
Subject: Externals Question from Stack Overflow
Message-ID: <2F91FB03-B7E0-4F69-97AA-E32C32B7CC3B@byu.edu>

Once more, this time with the link.


Hi all,

I came across a question on Stack Overflow from a sight-impaired user who is trying to figure out how to write and test a LiveCode external. I am pretty ignorant about externals in general, so I don?t think I can help in this case. But if anyone here feels inclined, I think it would help this user, and boost the number of responses to LC questions on Stack Overflow.

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/61782950/testing-livecode-external-in-python

Regards,

Devin


Devin Asay
Director
Office of Digital Humanities
Brigham Young University

_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com<mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

From ahsoftware at sonic.net  Thu May 14 12:35:49 2020
From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Thu, 14 May 2020 09:35:49 -0700
Subject: Apps to fight COVID-19
In-Reply-To: <2E377A37-0A20-4185-BCB6-B76FBBCBDA76@swcp.com>
References: <2E377A37-0A20-4185-BCB6-B76FBBCBDA76@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <9620adb5-548c-f7fb-666c-af5020668e7e@sonic.net>

Updated news: Germany steps up to the plate

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-52650576
https://github.com/corona-warn-app/cwa-documentation

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From livfoss at mac.com  Thu May 14 13:47:02 2020
From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel)
Date: Thu, 14 May 2020 19:47:02 +0200
Subject: Again not quite OT - freeware licence agreement?
Message-ID: <D3CC389D-565C-4B0A-9833-1D7FC9B97B32@mac.com>

I?ve built an iPhone app with LC which I intend to distribute without charge. Obviously I have to ban the user from reverse engineering, on-selling at a profit etc. This must be quite a common requirement, but my attempts to search for such a licence have proved rather confusing.

Has anyone got any recommendations? As usual, I?m having to provide this before Apple will even look at my app.

Graham


From iowahengst at mac.com  Thu May 14 13:59:04 2020
From: iowahengst at mac.com (Randy Hengst)
Date: Thu, 14 May 2020 12:59:04 -0500
Subject: Again not quite OT - freeware licence agreement?
In-Reply-To: <D3CC389D-565C-4B0A-9833-1D7FC9B97B32@mac.com>
References: <D3CC389D-565C-4B0A-9833-1D7FC9B97B32@mac.com>
Message-ID: <538BA901-40A7-475D-958F-964D67ABEA63@mac.com>

Hi Graham,

All of my iOS apps are free? all iOS apps on the Apple App Store fall under at least the default end user agreement? found here:
https://www.apple.com/legal/internet-services/itunes/dev/stdeula/ <https://www.apple.com/legal/internet-services/itunes/dev/stdeula/>

I listed this link on my website within the privacy statement.

be well,
randy
www.classroomFocusedSoftware.com


> On May 14, 2020, at 12:47 PM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I?ve built an iPhone app with LC which I intend to distribute without charge. Obviously I have to ban the user from reverse engineering, on-selling at a profit etc. This must be quite a common requirement, but my attempts to search for such a licence have proved rather confusing.
> 
> Has anyone got any recommendations? As usual, I?m having to provide this before Apple will even look at my app.
> 
> Graham
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From livfoss at mac.com  Thu May 14 16:37:03 2020
From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel)
Date: Thu, 14 May 2020 22:37:03 +0200
Subject: Again not quite OT - freeware licence agreement?
In-Reply-To: <538BA901-40A7-475D-958F-964D67ABEA63@mac.com>
References: <D3CC389D-565C-4B0A-9833-1D7FC9B97B32@mac.com>
 <538BA901-40A7-475D-958F-964D67ABEA63@mac.com>
Message-ID: <90DED719-7913-470C-9B3E-B62F84B2896C@mac.com>

Thanks Randy, that?s really helpful. I am tempted to say I have now spent more time trying to get my Apple submission in shape than I did designing and coding my app in the first place - not really true when I consider the debugging problems I?ve had, but it was still a significant chunk. I guess it will be easier next time.

Graham

> On 14 May 2020, at 19:59, Randy Hengst via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Graham,
> 
> All of my iOS apps are free? all iOS apps on the Apple App Store fall under at least the default end user agreement? found here:
> https://www.apple.com/legal/internet-services/itunes/dev/stdeula/ <https://www.apple.com/legal/internet-services/itunes/dev/stdeula/>
> 
> I listed this link on my website within the privacy statement.
> 
> be well,
> randy
> www.classroomFocusedSoftware.com
> 
> 
>> On May 14, 2020, at 12:47 PM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I?ve built an iPhone app with LC which I intend to distribute without charge. Obviously I have to ban the user from reverse engineering, on-selling at a profit etc. This must be quite a common requirement, but my attempts to search for such a licence have proved rather confusing.
>> 
>> Has anyone got any recommendations? As usual, I?m having to provide this before Apple will even look at my app.
>> 
>> Graham
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From sundown at pacifier.com  Thu May 14 19:30:41 2020
From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB)
Date: Thu, 14 May 2020 16:30:41 -0700
Subject: Externals Question from Stack Overflow
In-Reply-To: <2F91FB03-B7E0-4F69-97AA-E32C32B7CC3B@byu.edu>
References: <2F91FB03-B7E0-4F69-97AA-E32C32B7CC3B@byu.edu>
Message-ID: <0D74CEA8-875E-4314-BD09-2F7B7AAD0CE1@pacifier.com>

Part of the question was;

Can someone tell me how to obtain the pointer to g_external_name and g_external_table? How LiveCode knows it when it loads a DLL with my external? Is it possible to obtain the mentioned variables dinamically after DLL loads?


I do not think you can get any pointers in LiveCode and even if you did get a pointer
you could only use the address from within the program that obtained the pointer.  To
access pointers each external or program will use its own memory mapping so the
pointer itself is only good for the program providing the pointer info.  If you can access
the g_external in LiveCode then you can pass that info to your external using command
line arguments.

JB


> On May 14, 2020, at 8:29 AM, Devin Asay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Once more, this time with the link.
> 
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I came across a question on Stack Overflow from a sight-impaired user who is trying to figure out how to write and test a LiveCode external. I am pretty ignorant about externals in general, so I don?t think I can help in this case. But if anyone here feels inclined, I think it would help this user, and boost the number of responses to LC questions on Stack Overflow.
> 
> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/61782950/testing-livecode-external-in-python
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Devin
> 
> 
> Devin Asay
> Director
> Office of Digital Humanities
> Brigham Young University
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com<mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From alanstenhouse at hotmail.com  Thu May 14 19:49:37 2020
From: alanstenhouse at hotmail.com (Alan Stenhouse)
Date: Fri, 15 May 2020 09:19:37 +0930
Subject: LC9.6 Android EXIF image data issue
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1589472001.4387.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
References: <mailman.1.1589472001.4387.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <TY2PR02MB2944EA5A34D90EB30B0FD91DA5BC0@TY2PR02MB2944.apcprd02.prod.outlook.com>

Thanks Mark and Monte for the info.

Had already stopped using the width/height specs and for photos from the library we had been getting EXIF info and still do in many cases (I think - more testing needed!), but as we can't do anything about what the OS gives us, I'll just slightly change the message for the user to inform them.

Thanks again, cheers

Alan

> On14 May 2020 09:16:20, Mark Waddingham  wrote:
> 
> iOS definitely strips EXIF data in some cases - perhaps it is just from 
> photos taken with the camera or maybe it varies slightly with OS 
> version.
> 
> The Android case you are observing is probably because the EXIF data is 
> being stripped also.
> 
> Assuming you don't use a width/height argument on mobilePickPhoto then 
> we just return the data which we are given with no processing at all - 
> so you are getting what the OS wants you to get.
> 
> It might be that Samsung's camera app is a little more security 
> conscious than other Android variants :(
> 
> Warmest Regards,
> 
> Mark.



From preid at reidit.co.uk  Fri May 15 01:27:40 2020
From: preid at reidit.co.uk (Peter Reid)
Date: Fri, 15 May 2020 06:27:40 +0100
Subject: Atom Editor Help
Message-ID: <6D26865C-B61F-40FB-92EF-9A1B9F118080@reidit.co.uk>

Hi, I?ve noticed that several of the LiveCode staff use the Atom text editor. Until now I?ve used BBEdit on the Mac and Notepad++ on the PC. I?m thinking of switching to Atom but need to be sure it can everything I need. For example, I have a typical piece of pre-process manipulation of text data that involves using several regular expressions. I?ve tried to find a macro in Atom that applies a series of find & replacement actions but have failed to find a solution. Can anyone provide a template macro for this?

Thanks 

Peter



From dev at porta.ca  Fri May 15 02:21:07 2020
From: dev at porta.ca (=?utf-8?Q?dev=40porta.ca?=)
Date: Fri, 15 May 2020 00:21:07 -0600
Subject: Atom Editor Help
Message-ID: <7c085b5f-6fdd-4ef6-9bf3-6c09a576db3e@edison.tech>

      
Before you give up on BBedit, try to get in touch with Thierry on the forums. He is a master of Regex and has a system of macros to make it work tightly with BBedit to replace the IDE.
  
 http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=33891&p=190832&hilit=bbedit#p190832
  
  
On May 14 2020, at 11:28 pm, Peter Reid via use-livecode  <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>  wrote:
  
>   
>   
> Hi, I?ve noticed that several of the LiveCode staff use the Atom text editor. Until now I?ve used BBEdit on the Mac and Notepad++ on the PC. I?m thinking of switching to Atom but need to be sure it can everything I need. For example, I have a typical piece of pre-process manipulation of text data that involves using several regular expressions. I?ve tried to find a macro in Atom that applies a series of find  &  replacement actions but have failed to find a solution. Can anyone provide a template macro for this?
>   
>   
> Thanks
>   
>   
> Peter
>   
>   
> _______________________________________________
>   
> use-livecode mailing list
>   
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>   
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>   
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>   
>   
     

From benr_mc at cogapp.com  Fri May 15 05:08:54 2020
From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein)
Date: Fri, 15 May 2020 10:08:54 +0100
Subject: Replacement for Video Library on Mac (webcam feed)
Message-ID: <99cfaf84-0584-8486-9d49-bf0cbd53952d@cogapp.com>

I needed to do something with a webcam feed, and confidently set out to do 
this using revInitializeVideoGrabber/revPreviewVideo etc. After several times 
scratching my head wondering why it didn't work I finally read the note in the 
dictionary that says "Support for the "Video Grabber" library on Mac OS X 
ended in LiveCode 9.0."

But I can't seem to figure out what the replacement is?

What's the most straight forward way to display the feed from a webcam in LC 9 
and later, on macOS?

TIA,

Ben



From klaus at major-k.de  Fri May 15 05:12:44 2020
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Fri, 15 May 2020 11:12:44 +0200
Subject: Replacement for Video Library on Mac (webcam feed)
In-Reply-To: <99cfaf84-0584-8486-9d49-bf0cbd53952d@cogapp.com>
References: <99cfaf84-0584-8486-9d49-bf0cbd53952d@cogapp.com>
Message-ID: <8AC13A8E-BCA0-4401-95DF-D3CC2D704AC7@major-k.de>

Hi Ben,

> Am 15.05.2020 um 11:08 schrieb Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> I needed to do something with a webcam feed, and confidently set out to do this using revInitializeVideoGrabber/revPreviewVideo etc. After several times scratching my head wondering why it didn't work I finally read the note in the dictionary that says "Support for the "Video Grabber" library on Mac OS X ended in LiveCode 9.0."
> But I can't seem to figure out what the replacement is?
> What's the most straight forward way to display the feed from a webcam in LC 9 and later, on macOS?

check -> cameracontrol in the dictionary, I think this is the crossplatform successor of the (Mac Only) videograbber.

> TIA,
> 
> Ben

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
klaus at major-k.de




From benr at cogapp.com  Fri May 15 05:17:43 2020
From: benr at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein)
Date: Fri, 15 May 2020 10:17:43 +0100
Subject: Replacement for Video Library on Mac (webcam feed)
In-Reply-To: <8AC13A8E-BCA0-4401-95DF-D3CC2D704AC7@major-k.de>
References: <99cfaf84-0584-8486-9d49-bf0cbd53952d@cogapp.com>
 <8AC13A8E-BCA0-4401-95DF-D3CC2D704AC7@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <48bf2406-daf4-a095-e47d-a4740a3a69bc@cogapp.com>

Thanks Klaus, that's what I needed.

Perhaps this will be my first contribution to the code: add a sentence to the 
dictionary entries for video grabber libary to point at this.

Cheers!

Ben

On 15/05/2020 10:12, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
> Hi Ben,
> 
>> Am 15.05.2020 um 11:08 schrieb Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>
>> I needed to do something with a webcam feed, and confidently set out to do this using revInitializeVideoGrabber/revPreviewVideo etc. After several times scratching my head wondering why it didn't work I finally read the note in the dictionary that says "Support for the "Video Grabber" library on Mac OS X ended in LiveCode 9.0."
>> But I can't seem to figure out what the replacement is?
>> What's the most straight forward way to display the feed from a webcam in LC 9 and later, on macOS?
> 
> check -> cameracontrol in the dictionary, I think this is the crossplatform successor of the (Mac Only) videograbber.
> 
>> TIA,
>>
>> Ben
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> 
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> klaus at major-k.de
> 
> 



From david.bovill at gmail.com  Fri May 15 08:58:46 2020
From: david.bovill at gmail.com (David Bovill)
Date: Fri, 15 May 2020 13:58:46 +0100
Subject: Help with HTML5 Livecode Site
Message-ID: <fb22a156-8f8c-4dd2-84ad-5b29cc433504@Spark>

I would like to create a beautiful HTML5 Livecode based community site. The best examples I?ve found are by hh here on the list. I?m really looking to build on those great resources and work with some artists to make something neat.

Can anyone advise how to do lazy loading of the engine, and responsive design for mobile and desktop?

I would like to present a loading screen which we design to look great, and takes enough time to load the engine in the background.

When it is fully downloaded I?d like to show navigation elements that allow the reader to enter the Livecode HTML5 Playground.

I kind of know how to do this (in theory) but looking for some code examples Demi?s I can customise.


From david.bovill at gmail.com  Fri May 15 09:02:12 2020
From: david.bovill at gmail.com (David Bovill)
Date: Fri, 15 May 2020 14:02:12 +0100
Subject: Anyone willing to share a basic webpage template for LC
 HTML5 apps?
In-Reply-To: <3E632750-6C42-4F8E-B042-D83DCA7BDA5C@unimelb.edu.au>
References: <33E35A7C-F38E-41D0-B4EF-BBD884E709C0@unimelb.edu.au>
 <3E632750-6C42-4F8E-B042-D83DCA7BDA5C@unimelb.edu.au>
Message-ID: <d94e3098-2bcc-46fd-9b43-3982d3ecd969@Spark>

Just asked the same question. Would love to figure that out? Could we share a Github project?
On 14 May 2020, 03:40 +0100, Terry Judd via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
> Hi - I've got a couple of HTML5 apps that I want to deploy to students at my uni and was wondering if anyone had a fairly basic starting webpage that I could use rather than the one that LC generates automatically.
>
> If possible I'm looking to lose the elements in the top section (LC logo, resize canvas and lock/hide mouse pointer checkboxes and the fullscreen button) and just retain a basic download indicator. There is also a debug? section that appears below the canvas that I would like to remove if possible.
>
> My actual HTML skills are rudimentary at best so I'm reluctant to try editing the LC generated html file and the 'skeleton' page that is mentioned in the HTML5 deployment guide (via the dictionary) seems a bit too basic as it has no loader.
>
> If anyone has a template page that they would be willing to share I'd be very grateful.
>
> BTW, I have a HTML5 license so I think I'm ok to drop off the LC logo and links.
>
> Regards,
>
> Terry...
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From livfoss at mac.com  Fri May 15 12:02:56 2020
From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel)
Date: Fri, 15 May 2020 18:02:56 +0200
Subject: Sad truth about iOS apps
Message-ID: <E53A4A66-FAF1-4F40-86A5-9BCEDD2F61FE@mac.com>

As many of you will know, I have been struggling to create an iPhone app - very unfamiliar territory for  me. It?s been an education. Without help from this list and the mother ship I would have been dead in the water long ago. Finally I can see the (beta version of) the app running on my iPhones - yipee! The next step is to get it out there via TestFlight so that a few friends can mess with it.

I just went through all the hoops with the Apple App Store to reach the magic TestFlight stage, using the XCode Application Loader. Things looked good until this:

> ERROR ITMS-90725: "SDK Version Issue. This app was built with the iOS 12.1 SDK. New apps for iPhone or iPad must be built with the iOS 13 SDK or later.?

My iMac can only run High Sierra, and High Sierra can only run XCode 10.1, and AFAIK that version of XCode only runs SDK 12.1. I think that means I get a new Mac or give up.

Please tell me if I?m wrong.

Graham

PS I would really like a new Mac, but the budget is the problem!


From prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org  Fri May 15 12:39:01 2020
From: prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org (Prothero-ELS)
Date: Fri, 15 May 2020 09:39:01 -0700
Subject: Sad truth about iOS apps
In-Reply-To: <E53A4A66-FAF1-4F40-86A5-9BCEDD2F61FE@mac.com>
References: <E53A4A66-FAF1-4F40-86A5-9BCEDD2F61FE@mac.com>
Message-ID: <E34DA7E4-CD83-4763-82D5-19D933FDBC56@earthlearningsolutions.org>

Graham,
You may be able to find a used Mac that will run Catalina. My old MacBook Pro was one of the earliest that had 64 bit processor, but when it?s battery started interfering with the trackpad, I panicked and bought a new MacBook Pro. Then I took my old MacBook Pro to be fixed and it returned looking like new and working perfectly. So, I set it up for my wife, who had an even older Mac. Anyway, my new MacBook Pro is way faster and is a joy to use. I did have to buy a number of adapters to get my older usb devices to work.

I get this in a Google search.

?Apple advises that macOS Catalina will run on the following Macs: MacBook models from early 2015 or later. MacBook Air models from mid-2012 or later. MacBook Promodels from mid-2012 or later.?

Good luck,
Bill

William Prothero
https://earthlearningsolutions.org

> On May 15, 2020, at 9:04 AM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> ?As many of you will know, I have been struggling to create an iPhone app - very unfamiliar territory for  me. It?s been an education. Without help from this list and the mother ship I would have been dead in the water long ago. Finally I can see the (beta version of) the app running on my iPhones - yipee! The next step is to get it out there via TestFlight so that a few friends can mess with it.
> 
> I just went through all the hoops with the Apple App Store to reach the magic TestFlight stage, using the XCode Application Loader. Things looked good until this:
> 
>> ERROR ITMS-90725: "SDK Version Issue. This app was built with the iOS 12.1 SDK. New apps for iPhone or iPad must be built with the iOS 13 SDK or later.?
> 
> My iMac can only run High Sierra, and High Sierra can only run XCode 10.1, and AFAIK that version of XCode only runs SDK 12.1. I think that means I get a new Mac or give up.
> 
> Please tell me if I?m wrong.
> 
> Graham
> 
> PS I would really like a new Mac, but the budget is the problem!
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From bogdanoff at me.com  Fri May 15 12:39:55 2020
From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff)
Date: Fri, 15 May 2020 09:39:55 -0700
Subject: Sad truth about iOS apps
In-Reply-To: <E53A4A66-FAF1-4F40-86A5-9BCEDD2F61FE@mac.com>
References: <E53A4A66-FAF1-4F40-86A5-9BCEDD2F61FE@mac.com>
Message-ID: <D7B74EBA-92CC-4670-97A2-5CB542556488@me.com>

Hi Graham,

You might want to look at these kinds of articles:

How to install Catalina on older Mac, update macOS on an old MacBook
https://www.macworld.co.uk/how-to/mac-software/install-catalina-old-mac-3654960/


Peter

> On May 15, 2020, at 9:02 AM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> As many of you will know, I have been struggling to create an iPhone app - very unfamiliar territory for  me. It?s been an education. Without help from this list and the mother ship I would have been dead in the water long ago. Finally I can see the (beta version of) the app running on my iPhones - yipee! The next step is to get it out there via TestFlight so that a few friends can mess with it.
> 
> I just went through all the hoops with the Apple App Store to reach the magic TestFlight stage, using the XCode Application Loader. Things looked good until this:
> 
>> ERROR ITMS-90725: "SDK Version Issue. This app was built with the iOS 12.1 SDK. New apps for iPhone or iPad must be built with the iOS 13 SDK or later.?
> 
> My iMac can only run High Sierra, and High Sierra can only run XCode 10.1, and AFAIK that version of XCode only runs SDK 12.1. I think that means I get a new Mac or give up.
> 
> Please tell me if I?m wrong.
> 
> Graham
> 
> PS I would really like a new Mac, but the budget is the problem!
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From merakosp at gmail.com  Fri May 15 13:12:58 2020
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Fri, 15 May 2020 20:12:58 +0300
Subject: Sad truth about iOS apps
In-Reply-To: <D7B74EBA-92CC-4670-97A2-5CB542556488@me.com>
References: <E53A4A66-FAF1-4F40-86A5-9BCEDD2F61FE@mac.com>
 <D7B74EBA-92CC-4670-97A2-5CB542556488@me.com>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq_VRBZ24ugW0a8w=NfSxWQEOda84EXfGgFGnPrzto_Atg@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Graham,

Which LC version are you using? You **might** be able to hack the IDE to
use the iOS 13 sdk, even with High Sierra. Use LC 9.6 RC-1 for this.

Note: This is not recommended, so try it at your own risk.

You can start with downloading Xcode 11.3 which includes the iOS SDK 13.2.
Xcode 11.3 cannot run on High Sierra, so its icon will look disabled in the
Finder, but LC is using the iOS SDK, so this **might** work.

Then,  type in the msg box:

edit the script of stack revdeploylibraryios at 42

This will open the Script Editor - search for these lines (should be around
line 42):

else if tMacVersion < 101400 then
   put "12.1,10.1,12.1" into tList[1]

and replace them with:

else if tMacVersion < 101400 then
   put "12.1,10.1,12.1" into tList[1]
   put "13.2,11.3,13.3" into tList[2]     // <--- Add this line

Note this file is read-only, so if you want to save permanently these
changes, you need to change the permissions of the file
revdeploylibraryios.livecodescript in the LC app bundle.

Now, go to LiveCode Preferences -> Mobile Support and choose Xcode 11.3

Hopefully this should work.

Kind regards,
Panos
--

On Fri, May 15, 2020, 19:40 Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi Graham,
>
> You might want to look at these kinds of articles:
>
> How to install Catalina on older Mac, update macOS on an old MacBook
>
> https://www.macworld.co.uk/how-to/mac-software/install-catalina-old-mac-3654960/
>
>
> Peter
>
> > On May 15, 2020, at 9:02 AM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > As many of you will know, I have been struggling to create an iPhone app
> - very unfamiliar territory for  me. It?s been an education. Without help
> from this list and the mother ship I would have been dead in the water long
> ago. Finally I can see the (beta version of) the app running on my iPhones
> - yipee! The next step is to get it out there via TestFlight so that a few
> friends can mess with it.
> >
> > I just went through all the hoops with the Apple App Store to reach the
> magic TestFlight stage, using the XCode Application Loader. Things looked
> good until this:
> >
> >> ERROR ITMS-90725: "SDK Version Issue. This app was built with the iOS
> 12.1 SDK. New apps for iPhone or iPad must be built with the iOS 13 SDK or
> later.?
> >
> > My iMac can only run High Sierra, and High Sierra can only run XCode
> 10.1, and AFAIK that version of XCode only runs SDK 12.1. I think that
> means I get a new Mac or give up.
> >
> > Please tell me if I?m wrong.
> >
> > Graham
> >
> > PS I would really like a new Mac, but the budget is the problem!
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From preid at reidit.co.uk  Fri May 15 13:14:40 2020
From: preid at reidit.co.uk (Peter Reid)
Date: Fri, 15 May 2020 18:14:40 +0100
Subject: Atom Editor Help
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1589558402.317792.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
References: <mailman.1.1589558402.317792.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <EAB80804-F5E9-4747-80A8-C00700FB3524@reidit.co.uk>

Hi

The reason I'm considering Atom is because I often help people on both Macs and PCs with regex type enquiries and it would be easier for me if I could settle on a single tool instead of having to be proficient in 2 or more tools (I do some Linux as well). If BBedit were at least PC as well as Mac, I'd happily stick with it!

Cheers

Peter
--
Peter Reid
Loughborough, UK

> On 15 May 2020, at 5:00pm, use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:
> 
> Subject: Re: Atom Editor Help
> Message-ID: <7c085b5f-6fdd-4ef6-9bf3-6c09a576db3e at edison.tech <mailto:7c085b5f-6fdd-4ef6-9bf3-6c09a576db3e at edison.tech>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> 
> Before you give up on BBedit, try to get in touch with Thierry on the forums. He is a master of Regex and has a system of macros to make it work tightly with BBedit to replace the IDE.
> 
> http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=33891&p=190832&hilit=bbedit#p190832 <http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=33891&p=190832&hilit=bbedit#p190832>
> 
> 
> On May 14 2020, at 11:28 pm, Peter Reid via use-livecode  <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>>  wrote:
> 
>> 
>> 
>> Hi, I?ve noticed that several of the LiveCode staff use the Atom text editor. Until now I?ve used BBEdit on the Mac and Notepad++ on the PC. I?m thinking of switching to Atom but need to be sure it can everything I need. For example, I have a typical piece of pre-process manipulation of text data that involves using several regular expressions. I?ve tried to find a macro in Atom that applies a series of find  &  replacement actions but have failed to find a solution. Can anyone provide a template macro for this?
>> 
>> 
>> Thanks
>> 
>> 
>> Peter



From merakosp at gmail.com  Fri May 15 13:16:57 2020
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Fri, 15 May 2020 20:16:57 +0300
Subject: Sad truth about iOS apps
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq_VRBZ24ugW0a8w=NfSxWQEOda84EXfGgFGnPrzto_Atg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E53A4A66-FAF1-4F40-86A5-9BCEDD2F61FE@mac.com>
 <D7B74EBA-92CC-4670-97A2-5CB542556488@me.com>
 <CA+JfEq_VRBZ24ugW0a8w=NfSxWQEOda84EXfGgFGnPrzto_Atg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq_ceUk12mgKNbqkh-03TooY37cKhuF-cra4Ac1Ng+f20Q@mail.gmail.com>

Or you can use LC 9.6 DP-4 for that, if you don't want to use the
storyboard splash screens that are in LC 9.6 RC-1.

Kind regards,
Panos
--

On Fri, 15 May 2020 at 20:12, panagiotis merakos <merakosp at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello Graham,
>
> Which LC version are you using? You **might** be able to hack the IDE to
> use the iOS 13 sdk, even with High Sierra. Use LC 9.6 RC-1 for this.
>
> Note: This is not recommended, so try it at your own risk.
>
> You can start with downloading Xcode 11.3 which includes the iOS SDK 13.2.
> Xcode 11.3 cannot run on High Sierra, so its icon will look disabled in the
> Finder, but LC is using the iOS SDK, so this **might** work.
>
> Then,  type in the msg box:
>
> edit the script of stack revdeploylibraryios at 42
>
> This will open the Script Editor - search for these lines (should be
> around line 42):
>
> else if tMacVersion < 101400 then
>    put "12.1,10.1,12.1" into tList[1]
>
> and replace them with:
>
> else if tMacVersion < 101400 then
>    put "12.1,10.1,12.1" into tList[1]
>    put "13.2,11.3,13.3" into tList[2]     // <--- Add this line
>
> Note this file is read-only, so if you want to save permanently these
> changes, you need to change the permissions of the file
> revdeploylibraryios.livecodescript in the LC app bundle.
>
> Now, go to LiveCode Preferences -> Mobile Support and choose Xcode 11.3
>
> Hopefully this should work.
>
> Kind regards,
> Panos
> --
>
> On Fri, May 15, 2020, 19:40 Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Graham,
>>
>> You might want to look at these kinds of articles:
>>
>> How to install Catalina on older Mac, update macOS on an old MacBook
>>
>> https://www.macworld.co.uk/how-to/mac-software/install-catalina-old-mac-3654960/
>>
>>
>> Peter
>>
>> > On May 15, 2020, at 9:02 AM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > As many of you will know, I have been struggling to create an iPhone
>> app - very unfamiliar territory for  me. It?s been an education. Without
>> help from this list and the mother ship I would have been dead in the water
>> long ago. Finally I can see the (beta version of) the app running on my
>> iPhones - yipee! The next step is to get it out there via TestFlight so
>> that a few friends can mess with it.
>> >
>> > I just went through all the hoops with the Apple App Store to reach the
>> magic TestFlight stage, using the XCode Application Loader. Things looked
>> good until this:
>> >
>> >> ERROR ITMS-90725: "SDK Version Issue. This app was built with the iOS
>> 12.1 SDK. New apps for iPhone or iPad must be built with the iOS 13 SDK or
>> later.?
>> >
>> > My iMac can only run High Sierra, and High Sierra can only run XCode
>> 10.1, and AFAIK that version of XCode only runs SDK 12.1. I think that
>> means I get a new Mac or give up.
>> >
>> > Please tell me if I?m wrong.
>> >
>> > Graham
>> >
>> > PS I would really like a new Mac, but the budget is the problem!
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > use-livecode mailing list
>> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>


From dev at porta.ca  Fri May 15 13:19:41 2020
From: dev at porta.ca (Dev)
Date: Fri, 15 May 2020 11:19:41 -0600
Subject: Sad truth about iOS apps
In-Reply-To: <E53A4A66-FAF1-4F40-86A5-9BCEDD2F61FE@mac.com>
Message-ID: <4628e28e-7c0a-4590-86b2-a59c6756fe51@iPad>

      
  

  http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=34097
  
 Some other potential solutions from the forums
  

  
  
  

  
  
>   
> On May 15, 2020 at 10:03 AM,  <Graham Samuel via use-livecode (mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com)>  wrote:
>   
>   
>   
>  As many of you will know, I have been struggling to create an iPhone app - very unfamiliar territory for me. It?s been an education. Without help from this list and the mother ship I would have been dead in the water long ago. Finally I can see the (beta version of) the app running on my iPhones - yipee! The next step is to get it out there via TestFlight so that a few friends can mess with it. I just went through all the hoops with the Apple App Store to reach the magic TestFlight stage, using the XCode Application Loader. Things looked good until this:  >  ERROR ITMS-90725: "SDK Version Issue. This app was built with the iOS 12.1 SDK. New apps for iPhone or iPad must be built with the iOS 13 SDK or later.? My iMac can only run High Sierra, and High Sierra can only run XCode 10.1, and AFAIK that version of XCode only runs SDK 12.1. I think that means I get a new Mac or give up. Please tell me if I?m wrong. Graham PS I would really like a new Mac, but the budget is the problem! _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode  
>
>   
  
  
     

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri May 15 13:38:23 2020
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 15 May 2020 10:38:23 -0700
Subject: Atom Editor Help
In-Reply-To: <6D26865C-B61F-40FB-92EF-9A1B9F118080@reidit.co.uk>
References: <6D26865C-B61F-40FB-92EF-9A1B9F118080@reidit.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3448985b-178a-f7f0-4214-140925aeeada@fourthworld.com>

Peter Reid wrote:

 > ...several of the LiveCode staff use the Atom text editor.

That may explain the state of LC's Script Editor.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com




From tom at makeshyft.com  Fri May 15 14:25:25 2020
From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod)
Date: Fri, 15 May 2020 14:25:25 -0400
Subject: Sad truth about iOS apps
In-Reply-To: <4628e28e-7c0a-4590-86b2-a59c6756fe51@iPad>
References: <E53A4A66-FAF1-4F40-86A5-9BCEDD2F61FE@mac.com>
 <4628e28e-7c0a-4590-86b2-a59c6756fe51@iPad>
Message-ID: <CAPzQJLJ2YeM-kvBhQvDfGnpJE8nQecvrMp0CFftez__+eAaveQ@mail.gmail.com>

I've ditched LC for mobile development ....but ....

This may help you.... its not great for the simulator, but for making
builds, it should work.

http://www.xcodeclub.com

Good luck.


On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 1:20 PM Dev via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

>
>
>
>   http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=34097
>
>  Some other potential solutions from the forums
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >
> > On May 15, 2020 at 10:03 AM,  <Graham Samuel via use-livecode (mailto:
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com)>  wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >  As many of you will know, I have been struggling to create an iPhone
> app - very unfamiliar territory for me. It?s been an education. Without
> help from this list and the mother ship I would have been dead in the water
> long ago. Finally I can see the (beta version of) the app running on my
> iPhones - yipee! The next step is to get it out there via TestFlight so
> that a few friends can mess with it. I just went through all the hoops with
> the Apple App Store to reach the magic TestFlight stage, using the XCode
> Application Loader. Things looked good until this:  >  ERROR ITMS-90725:
> "SDK Version Issue. This app was built with the iOS 12.1 SDK. New apps for
> iPhone or iPad must be built with the iOS 13 SDK or later.? My iMac can
> only run High Sierra, and High Sierra can only run XCode 10.1, and AFAIK
> that version of XCode only runs SDK 12.1. I think that means I get a new
> Mac or give up. Please tell me if I?m wrong. Graham PS I would really like
> a new Mac, but the budget is the problem!
> _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe,
> unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
> >
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
Tom Glod
Founder & Developer
MakeShyft R.D.A (www.makeshyft.com)
Mobile:647.562.9411


From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Fri May 15 15:25:39 2020
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Fri, 15 May 2020 22:25:39 +0300
Subject: Sad truth about iOS apps
In-Reply-To: <CAPzQJLJ2YeM-kvBhQvDfGnpJE8nQecvrMp0CFftez__+eAaveQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E53A4A66-FAF1-4F40-86A5-9BCEDD2F61FE@mac.com>
 <4628e28e-7c0a-4590-86b2-a59c6756fe51@iPad>
 <CAPzQJLJ2YeM-kvBhQvDfGnpJE8nQecvrMp0CFftez__+eAaveQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAL3fwtgOMsHPJ+z8sOamfudJRCD5Si_V43yk4XgXaPvgK6E3ZA@mail.gmail.com>

I posted something I found to get round this on the Forums....

On Fri, May 15, 2020, 9:26 PM Tom Glod via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I've ditched LC for mobile development ....but ....
>
> This may help you.... its not great for the simulator, but for making
> builds, it should work.
>
> http://www.xcodeclub.com
>
> Good luck.
>
>
> On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 1:20 PM Dev via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >
> >   http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=34097
> >
> >  Some other potential solutions from the forums
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > On May 15, 2020 at 10:03 AM,  <Graham Samuel via use-livecode (mailto:
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com)>  wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >  As many of you will know, I have been struggling to create an iPhone
> > app - very unfamiliar territory for me. It?s been an education. Without
> > help from this list and the mother ship I would have been dead in the
> water
> > long ago. Finally I can see the (beta version of) the app running on my
> > iPhones - yipee! The next step is to get it out there via TestFlight so
> > that a few friends can mess with it. I just went through all the hoops
> with
> > the Apple App Store to reach the magic TestFlight stage, using the XCode
> > Application Loader. Things looked good until this:  >  ERROR ITMS-90725:
> > "SDK Version Issue. This app was built with the iOS 12.1 SDK. New apps
> for
> > iPhone or iPad must be built with the iOS 13 SDK or later.? My iMac can
> > only run High Sierra, and High Sierra can only run XCode 10.1, and AFAIK
> > that version of XCode only runs SDK 12.1. I think that means I get a new
> > Mac or give up. Please tell me if I?m wrong. Graham PS I would really
> like
> > a new Mac, but the budget is the problem!
> > _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe,
> > unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
>
>
> --
> Tom Glod
> Founder & Developer
> MakeShyft R.D.A (www.makeshyft.com)
> Mobile:647.562.9411
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From iphonelagi at gmail.com  Fri May 15 16:03:28 2020
From: iphonelagi at gmail.com (Lagi Pittas)
Date: Fri, 15 May 2020 21:03:28 +0100
Subject: Sad truth about iOS apps
In-Reply-To: <E53A4A66-FAF1-4F40-86A5-9BCEDD2F61FE@mac.com>
References: <E53A4A66-FAF1-4F40-86A5-9BCEDD2F61FE@mac.com>
Message-ID: <CAG1h1VAVAJykmuUU-ZVBa-93gv78530TD2e57M0JbWjReLJSkg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Graham,

Why not get one of the hackintosh "modified" images for windows and run it
inside virtualbox - probably s lot of hsrdwware wont work but |I bet xcode
will.

https://www.maketecheasier.com/install-macos-virtualbox/
https://www.hackint0sh.org/how-to-install-macos-on-virtualbox/
https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/macos-windows-10-virtual-machine/

Yes and if I do have a mac - 5  actually Macbook, Macbook pro ,  Performa
and a mac classic 11 and a Mini - and only the mini can  run the latest
software.
So  if i deemed it necessary and didn't have a spare ?2000 lying around I
have no compunction to do that - the EULA  already says they can take my
kids from me if
I don't follow what they say so what the hell ;-)


Lagi

btw

The best machine Apple ever made was the Apple 2 - and I still have that -
and with a bit of extra memory it could probably run Xcode.


On Fri, 15 May 2020 at 17:04, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> As many of you will know, I have been struggling to create an iPhone app -
> very unfamiliar territory for  me. It?s been an education. Without help
> from this list and the mother ship I would have been dead in the water long
> ago. Finally I can see the (beta version of) the app running on my iPhones
> - yipee! The next step is to get it out there via TestFlight so that a few
> friends can mess with it.
>
> I just went through all the hoops with the Apple App Store to reach the
> magic TestFlight stage, using the XCode Application Loader. Things looked
> good until this:
>
> > ERROR ITMS-90725: "SDK Version Issue. This app was built with the iOS
> 12.1 SDK. New apps for iPhone or iPad must be built with the iOS 13 SDK or
> later.?
>
> My iMac can only run High Sierra, and High Sierra can only run XCode 10.1,
> and AFAIK that version of XCode only runs SDK 12.1. I think that means I
> get a new Mac or give up.
>
> Please tell me if I?m wrong.
>
> Graham
>
> PS I would really like a new Mac, but the budget is the problem!
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
KIndest Regards Lagi


From livfoss at mac.com  Fri May 15 17:34:23 2020
From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel)
Date: Fri, 15 May 2020 23:34:23 +0200
Subject: Sad truth about iOS apps
In-Reply-To: <CAG1h1VAVAJykmuUU-ZVBa-93gv78530TD2e57M0JbWjReLJSkg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E53A4A66-FAF1-4F40-86A5-9BCEDD2F61FE@mac.com>
 <CAG1h1VAVAJykmuUU-ZVBa-93gv78530TD2e57M0JbWjReLJSkg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <30972D48-E689-4193-AD93-810F89A4126C@mac.com>

Very sincere thanks to all who replied - I will explore all your solutions and insights.

If I get that far (to make an acceptable version of my app bundle) I will also have to solve a number of errors that the Loader reported. For instance:

> The Key UIUUserInterfaceStyle ? in the Payload/Myapp.appinfo.plist is invalid

Difficult, as I don?t know what that means.

I can cope with the requirement for different PNG files of certain precise sizes not mentioned in the LC Standalone Settings, e.g.

> The bundle does not contain an app icon for iPad of exactly '76x76' pixels, in .png format for iOS versions >= 7.0. To support older operating systems, the icon may be required in the bundle outside of an asset catalog. Make sure the Info.plist file includes appropriate entries referencing the file.  


but the references to where they should be placed mean nothing to me. Here?s another one:

> ERROR ITMS-90023: "Missing required icon file. The bundle does not contain an app icon for iPad of exactly '152x152' pixels, in .png format for iOS versions >= 7.0. To support older operating systems, the icon may be required in the bundle outside of an asset catalog. Make sure the Info.plist file includes appropriate entries referencing the file. 

I had hoped that LC would look after the positioning of all this stuff for me - I believe I supplied all the PNGs that the LC Settings asked for, but of course I will check.

The Xcode documentation of course assumes that one?s app is a project within the XCode universe,which AFAIK doesn?t apply to LC projects, so it?s not much help, at least not to me.

Is there a way out of this confusion?

Graham

> On 15 May 2020, at 18:02, I wrote:
> As many of you will know, I have been struggling to create an iPhone app - very unfamiliar territory for  me. It?s been an education. Without help from this list and the mother ship I would have been dead in the water long ago. Finally I can see the (beta version of) the app running on my iPhones - yipee! The next step is to get it out there via TestFlight so that a few friends can mess with it.
> 
> I just went through all the hoops with the Apple App Store to reach the magic TestFlight stage, using the XCode Application Loader. Things looked good until this:
> 
>> ERROR ITMS-90725: "SDK Version Issue. This app was built with the iOS 12.1 SDK. New apps for iPhone or iPad must be built with the iOS 13 SDK or later.?
> 
> My iMac can only run High Sierra, and High Sierra can only run XCode 10.1, and AFAIK that version of XCode only runs SDK 12.1. I think that means I get a new Mac or give up.
> 
> Please tell me if I?m wrong.
> 
> Graham
> 
> PS I would really like a new Mac, but the budget is the problem!




From livfoss at mac.com  Fri May 15 18:40:41 2020
From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel)
Date: Sat, 16 May 2020 00:40:41 +0200
Subject: LC 9.6.0 RC1 Splash/Launch Images
Message-ID: <6EA5970F-3F53-4A02-BFDF-5ED10E403C85@mac.com>

I see that the iOS Standalone Settings have changed in this version, no doubt to accommodate Apple?s new rules. One is required to provide six images as ?Launch Images? under the ?Splash? tab. It seems that there?s an image, a 2x image and a 3x image, and then another three for dark mode.

There is no tooltip to suggest how large these images should be - in previous versions they had to be tailored to different device screen sizes. Now it seems anything goes, or does it?

Can anyone explain what the dimensions of these images are supposed to be? Does ?2x? just mean twice the original size in each direction or what? Can?t see anything in the release notes, but maybe I wasn?t paying attention.

Graham


From e.beugelaar at me.com  Sat May 16 04:38:16 2020
From: e.beugelaar at me.com (Erik Beugelaar)
Date: Sat, 16 May 2020 10:38:16 +0200
Subject: Sad truth about iOS apps
In-Reply-To: <30972D48-E689-4193-AD93-810F89A4126C@mac.com>
References: <E53A4A66-FAF1-4F40-86A5-9BCEDD2F61FE@mac.com>
 <CAG1h1VAVAJykmuUU-ZVBa-93gv78530TD2e57M0JbWjReLJSkg@mail.gmail.com>
 <30972D48-E689-4193-AD93-810F89A4126C@mac.com>
Message-ID: <007301d62b5d$59d6ca90$0d845fb0$@me.com>

First you can upgrade your 'old' MacBook Pro (before mid 2012), in your case High Sierra, to Mojave with macOS Mojave Patcher Tool. See http://dosdude1.com/software.html
Then you upgrade to Catalina with the macOS Catalina Patcher and you will be up to date.
Detailed instruction are on the website. You only loose the support of the extra gpu card in your MacBook Pro but if you are not playing games or other heavy graphical stuff you will not notice any difference.

Erik

-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> On Behalf Of Graham Samuel via use-livecode
Sent: vrijdag 15 mei 2020 23:34
To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Cc: Graham Samuel <livfoss at mac.com>
Subject: Re: Sad truth about iOS apps

Very sincere thanks to all who replied - I will explore all your solutions and insights.

If I get that far (to make an acceptable version of my app bundle) I will also have to solve a number of errors that the Loader reported. For instance:

> The Key UIUUserInterfaceStyle ? in the Payload/Myapp.appinfo.plist is invalid

Difficult, as I don?t know what that means.

I can cope with the requirement for different PNG files of certain precise sizes not mentioned in the LC Standalone Settings, e.g.

> The bundle does not contain an app icon for iPad of exactly '76x76' pixels, in .png format for iOS versions >= 7.0. To support older operating systems, the icon may be required in the bundle outside of an asset catalog. Make sure the Info.plist file includes appropriate entries referencing the file.  


but the references to where they should be placed mean nothing to me. Here?s another one:

> ERROR ITMS-90023: "Missing required icon file. The bundle does not contain an app icon for iPad of exactly '152x152' pixels, in .png format for iOS versions >= 7.0. To support older operating systems, the icon may be required in the bundle outside of an asset catalog. Make sure the Info.plist file includes appropriate entries referencing the file. 

I had hoped that LC would look after the positioning of all this stuff for me - I believe I supplied all the PNGs that the LC Settings asked for, but of course I will check.

The Xcode documentation of course assumes that one?s app is a project within the XCode universe,which AFAIK doesn?t apply to LC projects, so it?s not much help, at least not to me.

Is there a way out of this confusion?

Graham

> On 15 May 2020, at 18:02, I wrote:
> As many of you will know, I have been struggling to create an iPhone app - very unfamiliar territory for  me. It?s been an education. Without help from this list and the mother ship I would have been dead in the water long ago. Finally I can see the (beta version of) the app running on my iPhones - yipee! The next step is to get it out there via TestFlight so that a few friends can mess with it.
> 
> I just went through all the hoops with the Apple App Store to reach the magic TestFlight stage, using the XCode Application Loader. Things looked good until this:
> 
>> ERROR ITMS-90725: "SDK Version Issue. This app was built with the iOS 12.1 SDK. New apps for iPhone or iPad must be built with the iOS 13 SDK or later.?
> 
> My iMac can only run High Sierra, and High Sierra can only run XCode 10.1, and AFAIK that version of XCode only runs SDK 12.1. I think that means I get a new Mac or give up.
> 
> Please tell me if I?m wrong.
> 
> Graham
> 
> PS I would really like a new Mac, but the budget is the problem!


_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From e.beugelaar at me.com  Sat May 16 05:42:57 2020
From: e.beugelaar at me.com (Erik Beugelaar)
Date: Sat, 16 May 2020 11:42:57 +0200
Subject: Sad truth about iOS apps
In-Reply-To: <007301d62b5d$59d6ca90$0d845fb0$@me.com>
References: <E53A4A66-FAF1-4F40-86A5-9BCEDD2F61FE@mac.com>
 <CAG1h1VAVAJykmuUU-ZVBa-93gv78530TD2e57M0JbWjReLJSkg@mail.gmail.com>
 <30972D48-E689-4193-AD93-810F89A4126C@mac.com>
 <007301d62b5d$59d6ca90$0d845fb0$@me.com>
Message-ID: <00bb01d62b66$647b0250$2d7106f0$@me.com>

Update: You can direclty upgrade from High Sierra to Catalina using the macOS Catalina Patcher.
Be sure that High Sierra is up-to-date and using APFS (new Apple File System) instead of HFS+.

-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> On Behalf Of Erik Beugelaar via use-livecode
Sent: zaterdag 16 mei 2020 10:38
To: 'How to use LiveCode' <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Cc: Erik Beugelaar <e.beugelaar at me.com>
Subject: RE: Sad truth about iOS apps

First you can upgrade your 'old' MacBook Pro (before mid 2012), in your case High Sierra, to Mojave with macOS Mojave Patcher Tool. See http://dosdude1.com/software.html Then you upgrade to Catalina with the macOS Catalina Patcher and you will be up to date.
Detailed instruction are on the website. You only loose the support of the extra gpu card in your MacBook Pro but if you are not playing games or other heavy graphical stuff you will not notice any difference.

Erik

-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode <use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com> On Behalf Of Graham Samuel via use-livecode
Sent: vrijdag 15 mei 2020 23:34
To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Cc: Graham Samuel <livfoss at mac.com>
Subject: Re: Sad truth about iOS apps

Very sincere thanks to all who replied - I will explore all your solutions and insights.

If I get that far (to make an acceptable version of my app bundle) I will also have to solve a number of errors that the Loader reported. For instance:

> The Key UIUUserInterfaceStyle ? in the Payload/Myapp.appinfo.plist is 
> invalid

Difficult, as I don?t know what that means.

I can cope with the requirement for different PNG files of certain precise sizes not mentioned in the LC Standalone Settings, e.g.

> The bundle does not contain an app icon for iPad of exactly '76x76' pixels, in .png format for iOS versions >= 7.0. To support older operating systems, the icon may be required in the bundle outside of an asset catalog. Make sure the Info.plist file includes appropriate entries referencing the file.  


but the references to where they should be placed mean nothing to me. Here?s another one:

> ERROR ITMS-90023: "Missing required icon file. The bundle does not contain an app icon for iPad of exactly '152x152' pixels, in .png format for iOS versions >= 7.0. To support older operating systems, the icon may be required in the bundle outside of an asset catalog. Make sure the Info.plist file includes appropriate entries referencing the file. 

I had hoped that LC would look after the positioning of all this stuff for me - I believe I supplied all the PNGs that the LC Settings asked for, but of course I will check.

The Xcode documentation of course assumes that one?s app is a project within the XCode universe,which AFAIK doesn?t apply to LC projects, so it?s not much help, at least not to me.

Is there a way out of this confusion?

Graham

> On 15 May 2020, at 18:02, I wrote:
> As many of you will know, I have been struggling to create an iPhone app - very unfamiliar territory for  me. It?s been an education. Without help from this list and the mother ship I would have been dead in the water long ago. Finally I can see the (beta version of) the app running on my iPhones - yipee! The next step is to get it out there via TestFlight so that a few friends can mess with it.
> 
> I just went through all the hoops with the Apple App Store to reach the magic TestFlight stage, using the XCode Application Loader. Things looked good until this:
> 
>> ERROR ITMS-90725: "SDK Version Issue. This app was built with the iOS 12.1 SDK. New apps for iPhone or iPad must be built with the iOS 13 SDK or later.?
> 
> My iMac can only run High Sierra, and High Sierra can only run XCode 10.1, and AFAIK that version of XCode only runs SDK 12.1. I think that means I get a new Mac or give up.
> 
> Please tell me if I?m wrong.
> 
> Graham
> 
> PS I would really like a new Mac, but the budget is the problem!


_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From harrison at all-auctions.com  Sat May 16 09:40:20 2020
From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison)
Date: Sat, 16 May 2020 09:40:20 -0400
Subject: Sad truth about iOS apps
In-Reply-To: <00bb01d62b66$647b0250$2d7106f0$@me.com>
References: <E53A4A66-FAF1-4F40-86A5-9BCEDD2F61FE@mac.com>
 <CAG1h1VAVAJykmuUU-ZVBa-93gv78530TD2e57M0JbWjReLJSkg@mail.gmail.com>
 <30972D48-E689-4193-AD93-810F89A4126C@mac.com>
 <007301d62b5d$59d6ca90$0d845fb0$@me.com>
 <00bb01d62b66$647b0250$2d7106f0$@me.com>
Message-ID: <57E4C3D4-E70A-45E4-A983-15E55753B24D@all-auctions.com>

For those who upgrade to Catalina, remember you will lose any 32 bit apps
as Apple has forced everyone to move to 64 bit apps.

Good luck!

Rick

> On May 16, 2020, at 5:42 AM, Erik Beugelaar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Update: You can direclty upgrade from High Sierra to Catalina using the macOS Catalina Patcher.
> Be sure that High Sierra is up-to-date and using APFS (new Apple File System) instead of HFS+.



From livfoss at mac.com  Sat May 16 10:48:53 2020
From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel)
Date: Sat, 16 May 2020 16:48:53 +0200
Subject: LC 9.6.0 RC1 Splash/Launch Images
In-Reply-To: <6EA5970F-3F53-4A02-BFDF-5ED10E403C85@mac.com>
References: <6EA5970F-3F53-4A02-BFDF-5ED10E403C85@mac.com>
Message-ID: <002BA43B-F6E1-44F9-BA5C-197C8763E65C@mac.com>

This is not to answer my own question, but to emphasise the apparent difficulty of getting this aspect of creating an iOS app right just by using just LC and a reasonable graphics editor on a Mac. It means to me that a lot of careful instructions need to be provided by somebody in the LC universe, since the policy (I sincerely hope!) is to get LC developers to avoid getting deep into XCode. I found this, which frankly scares me.

https://wiki.starling-framework.org/manual/ios_launch_images

 Can anyone help me to a less nerdy way of getting this right? I don?t even know what a storyboard is!

Graham

> On 16 May 2020, at 00:40, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I see that the iOS Standalone Settings have changed in this version, no doubt to accommodate Apple?s new rules. One is required to provide six images as ?Launch Images? under the ?Splash? tab. It seems that there?s an image, a 2x image and a 3x image, and then another three for dark mode.
> 
> There is no tooltip to suggest how large these images should be - in previous versions they had to be tailored to different device screen sizes. Now it seems anything goes, or does it?
> 
> Can anyone explain what the dimensions of these images are supposed to be? Does ?2x? just mean twice the original size in each direction or what? Can?t see anything in the release notes, but maybe I wasn?t paying attention.
> 
> Graham
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From dsc at swcp.com  Sat May 16 13:30:39 2020
From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott Consulting)
Date: Sat, 16 May 2020 11:30:39 -0600
Subject: Apps to fight COVID-19
In-Reply-To: <9620adb5-548c-f7fb-666c-af5020668e7e@sonic.net>
References: <2E377A37-0A20-4185-BCB6-B76FBBCBDA76@swcp.com>
 <9620adb5-548c-f7fb-666c-af5020668e7e@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <0E24EE6E-635F-4835-A635-14FB512582D9@swcp.com>

Covid Watch (where I'm working) is decentralized. (of course) 

> On May 14, 2020, at 10:35 AM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Updated news: Germany steps up to the plate
> 
> https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-52650576
> https://github.com/corona-warn-app/cwa-documentation
> 
> -- 
> Mark Wieder
> ahsoftware at gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From kee.nethery at elloco.com  Sat May 16 18:01:32 2020
From: kee.nethery at elloco.com (kee nethery)
Date: Sat, 16 May 2020 15:01:32 -0700
Subject: Sad truth about iOS apps
In-Reply-To: <57E4C3D4-E70A-45E4-A983-15E55753B24D@all-auctions.com>
References: <E53A4A66-FAF1-4F40-86A5-9BCEDD2F61FE@mac.com>
 <CAG1h1VAVAJykmuUU-ZVBa-93gv78530TD2e57M0JbWjReLJSkg@mail.gmail.com>
 <30972D48-E689-4193-AD93-810F89A4126C@mac.com>
 <007301d62b5d$59d6ca90$0d845fb0$@me.com>
 <00bb01d62b66$647b0250$2d7106f0$@me.com>
 <57E4C3D4-E70A-45E4-A983-15E55753B24D@all-auctions.com>
Message-ID: <6D75B644-1ACF-4279-A960-840585638D2F@elloco.com>

Replaced or just deleted any 32 bit apps I had. Opened files in 32 bit apps and converted them into something else, typically Text or PDF. Lots of files I printed to PDF and stored the PDF versions. 

Bought some software to open MacDraw files and save them as PDF.

I had some WriteNow files that I had to move to a really old laptop, print to PDF, and then move back. 

All in all, I?m pretty sure that every file I now have can be viewed under Catalina. And thus, I have migrated to Catalina. It took a bunch of time, but hey, have lots of time right now.

Kee

> On May 16, 2020, at 6:40 AM, Rick Harrison via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> For those who upgrade to Catalina, remember you will lose any 32 bit apps
> as Apple has forced everyone to move to 64 bit apps.
> 
> Good luck!
> 
> Rick
> 
>> On May 16, 2020, at 5:42 AM, Erik Beugelaar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Update: You can direclty upgrade from High Sierra to Catalina using the macOS Catalina Patcher.
>> Be sure that High Sierra is up-to-date and using APFS (new Apple File System) instead of HFS+.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From livfoss at mac.com  Sun May 17 03:31:53 2020
From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel)
Date: Sun, 17 May 2020 09:31:53 +0200
Subject: Sad truth about iOS apps
In-Reply-To: <6D75B644-1ACF-4279-A960-840585638D2F@elloco.com>
References: <E53A4A66-FAF1-4F40-86A5-9BCEDD2F61FE@mac.com>
 <CAG1h1VAVAJykmuUU-ZVBa-93gv78530TD2e57M0JbWjReLJSkg@mail.gmail.com>
 <30972D48-E689-4193-AD93-810F89A4126C@mac.com>
 <007301d62b5d$59d6ca90$0d845fb0$@me.com>
 <00bb01d62b66$647b0250$2d7106f0$@me.com>
 <57E4C3D4-E70A-45E4-A983-15E55753B24D@all-auctions.com>
 <6D75B644-1ACF-4279-A960-840585638D2F@elloco.com>
Message-ID: <23F7CB91-5AF3-47A7-BBC7-8243FCABF91C@mac.com>

There is a consistent tale (more than a rumour, I think) that Catalina can mess up some people's mail messages, if you use Apple Mail. Did that affect you? It?s the thing about Catalina that scares me most - after all, we?ve had lots of warning about 32 bit apps.

Graham

> On 17 May 2020, at 00:01, kee nethery via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Replaced or just deleted any 32 bit apps I had. Opened files in 32 bit apps and converted them into something else, typically Text or PDF. Lots of files I printed to PDF and stored the PDF versions. 
> 
> Bought some software to open MacDraw files and save them as PDF.
> 
> I had some WriteNow files that I had to move to a really old laptop, print to PDF, and then move back. 
> 
> All in all, I?m pretty sure that every file I now have can be viewed under Catalina. And thus, I have migrated to Catalina. It took a bunch of time, but hey, have lots of time right now.
> 
> Kee
> 
>> On May 16, 2020, at 6:40 AM, Rick Harrison via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> For those who upgrade to Catalina, remember you will lose any 32 bit apps
>> as Apple has forced everyone to move to 64 bit apps.
>> 
>> Good luck!
>> 
>> Rick
>> 
>>> On May 16, 2020, at 5:42 AM, Erik Beugelaar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Update: You can direclty upgrade from High Sierra to Catalina using the macOS Catalina Patcher.
>>> Be sure that High Sierra is up-to-date and using APFS (new Apple File System) instead of HFS+.
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From dev at porta.ca  Sun May 17 12:46:12 2020
From: dev at porta.ca (Dev)
Date: Sun, 17 May 2020 10:46:12 -0600
Subject: Sad truth about iOS apps
In-Reply-To: <23F7CB91-5AF3-47A7-BBC7-8243FCABF91C@mac.com>
References: <23F7CB91-5AF3-47A7-BBC7-8243FCABF91C@mac.com>
Message-ID: <751BEB2C-4B0F-43D5-A8C0-671C27204EDA@porta.ca>

No problems on two machines here with Catalina and Mail. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 17, 2020, at 1:32 AM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> ?There is a consistent tale (more than a rumour, I think) that Catalina can mess up some people's mail messages, if you use Apple Mail. Did that affect you? It?s the thing about Catalina that scares me most - after all, we?ve had lots of warning about 32 bit apps.
> 
> Graham
> 
>> On 17 May 2020, at 00:01, kee nethery via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Replaced or just deleted any 32 bit apps I had. Opened files in 32 bit apps and converted them into something else, typically Text or PDF. Lots of files I printed to PDF and stored the PDF versions. 
>> 
>> Bought some software to open MacDraw files and save them as PDF.
>> 
>> I had some WriteNow files that I had to move to a really old laptop, print to PDF, and then move back. 
>> 
>> All in all, I?m pretty sure that every file I now have can be viewed under Catalina. And thus, I have migrated to Catalina. It took a bunch of time, but hey, have lots of time right now.
>> 
>> Kee
>> 
>>>> On May 16, 2020, at 6:40 AM, Rick Harrison via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> For those who upgrade to Catalina, remember you will lose any 32 bit apps
>>> as Apple has forced everyone to move to 64 bit apps.
>>> 
>>> Good luck!
>>> 
>>> Rick
>>> 
>>>> On May 16, 2020, at 5:42 AM, Erik Beugelaar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Update: You can direclty upgrade from High Sierra to Catalina using the macOS Catalina Patcher.
>>>> Be sure that High Sierra is up-to-date and using APFS (new Apple File System) instead of HFS+.
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From merakosp at gmail.com  Sun May 17 12:58:42 2020
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Sun, 17 May 2020 19:58:42 +0300
Subject: LC 9.6.0 RC1 Splash/Launch Images
In-Reply-To: <002BA43B-F6E1-44F9-BA5C-197C8763E65C@mac.com>
References: <6EA5970F-3F53-4A02-BFDF-5ED10E403C85@mac.com>
 <002BA43B-F6E1-44F9-BA5C-197C8763E65C@mac.com>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq8fF1hsi92cQyvmkuamy_nL9cPJdCG1Dcort+abFChneg@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Graham,

The new storyboard mechanism has some restrictions as it is (we might
enhance it in the future)

For example it is no longer possible to have an exact (pixel) matching of
the splash screen and the first card of the stack as it appears on the
device

So the best suggestion now is to use a splash image that has just a logo at
the center and it is transparent, and also to set the background of the
splash in the standalone settings.

In that way, in all devices (ipads/iphones) you will get a centered logo
with the background you set in the standalone settings (or you can choose
to not set the background - in this case the default background color will
be used depending on the device appearance: white if the device is on light
mode and black if the device is on dark mode)

Of course, if you do not wish to have a splash that shows just a logo, you
can choose a regular image (or 3 regular images, one for each 1x,2x,3x
slots) and also set the background color to match the image background
color. In this case, depending of the device, the app will use the one of
the three images that is closer to the device screen size, and will center
this image to the screen.

This means that the image in some devices will either match exactly, or it
will be larger (in this case it will be cropped and the edges will not
show), or it will be smaller (in this case it will be centered at the
device screen, and the left/top/right/bottom areas will show the background
color that was set in the standalone settings.

One might ask, what size should the images be then? Well, it depends on the
images (i.e. how much content they have at the center, and if you are OK if
some of the content at the edges is cropped etc). A rule of thumb - as I
understand it - is the following:

-use a "small", a "medium" and a "large" image for each of the 1x, 2x and
3x slots, where "small" is the smallest image you used before the
storyboard, "large" is the largest you used before, and "medium" is
something in-between.

For example, you could try images with these dimensions:

- 1334x750
- 2208x1242 (x2)
- 2732x2048 (x3)

Hope this helps.

We will write a lesson for this topic soon.

Kind regards,
Panos
--

On Sat, 16 May 2020 at 17:49, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> This is not to answer my own question, but to emphasise the apparent
> difficulty of getting this aspect of creating an iOS app right just by
> using just LC and a reasonable graphics editor on a Mac. It means to me
> that a lot of careful instructions need to be provided by somebody in the
> LC universe, since the policy (I sincerely hope!) is to get LC developers
> to avoid getting deep into XCode. I found this, which frankly scares me.
>
> https://wiki.starling-framework.org/manual/ios_launch_images
>
>  Can anyone help me to a less nerdy way of getting this right? I don?t
> even know what a storyboard is!
>
> Graham
>
> > On 16 May 2020, at 00:40, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > I see that the iOS Standalone Settings have changed in this version, no
> doubt to accommodate Apple?s new rules. One is required to provide six
> images as ?Launch Images? under the ?Splash? tab. It seems that there?s an
> image, a 2x image and a 3x image, and then another three for dark mode.
> >
> > There is no tooltip to suggest how large these images should be - in
> previous versions they had to be tailored to different device screen sizes.
> Now it seems anything goes, or does it?
> >
> > Can anyone explain what the dimensions of these images are supposed to
> be? Does ?2x? just mean twice the original size in each direction or what?
> Can?t see anything in the release notes, but maybe I wasn?t paying
> attention.
> >
> > Graham
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From colinholgate at gmail.com  Sun May 17 14:34:41 2020
From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate)
Date: Sun, 17 May 2020 12:34:41 -0600
Subject: LC 9.6.0 RC1 Splash/Launch Images
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq8fF1hsi92cQyvmkuamy_nL9cPJdCG1Dcort+abFChneg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6EA5970F-3F53-4A02-BFDF-5ED10E403C85@mac.com>
 <002BA43B-F6E1-44F9-BA5C-197C8763E65C@mac.com>
 <CA+JfEq8fF1hsi92cQyvmkuamy_nL9cPJdCG1Dcort+abFChneg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D1511D2A-0143-4B4C-ABC0-2DC8275C8E57@gmail.com>

What I?ve done for a while is to use a flat color that is the average of the colors in the actual title screen. The splash screen is not around for very long, and with there being lots of different sizes required, a detailed splash screen could possibly take up 50 MB of app side, for the sake of a fraction of a second.

In the best case it feels like the title screen faded into view. In fact, you could do that, quickly fade in from a matching flat background color.


> On May 17, 2020, at 10:58 AM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hello Graham,
> 
> The new storyboard mechanism has some restrictions as it is (we might
> enhance it in the future)
> 
> For example it is no longer possible to have an exact (pixel) matching of
> the splash screen and the first card of the stack as it appears on the
> device
> 
> So the best suggestion now is to use a splash image that has just a logo at
> the center and it is transparent, and also to set the background of the
> splash in the standalone settings.
> 
> In that way, in all devices (ipads/iphones) you will get a centered logo
> with the background you set in the standalone settings (or you can choose
> to not set the background - in this case the default background color will
> be used depending on the device appearance: white if the device is on light
> mode and black if the device is on dark mode)
> 
> Of course, if you do not wish to have a splash that shows just a logo, you
> can choose a regular image (or 3 regular images, one for each 1x,2x,3x
> slots) and also set the background color to match the image background
> color. In this case, depending of the device, the app will use the one of
> the three images that is closer to the device screen size, and will center
> this image to the screen.
> 
> This means that the image in some devices will either match exactly, or it
> will be larger (in this case it will be cropped and the edges will not
> show), or it will be smaller (in this case it will be centered at the
> device screen, and the left/top/right/bottom areas will show the background
> color that was set in the standalone settings.
> 
> One might ask, what size should the images be then? Well, it depends on the
> images (i.e. how much content they have at the center, and if you are OK if
> some of the content at the edges is cropped etc). A rule of thumb - as I
> understand it - is the following:
> 
> -use a "small", a "medium" and a "large" image for each of the 1x, 2x and
> 3x slots, where "small" is the smallest image you used before the
> storyboard, "large" is the largest you used before, and "medium" is
> something in-between.
> 
> For example, you could try images with these dimensions:
> 
> - 1334x750
> - 2208x1242 (x2)
> - 2732x2048 (x3)
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> We will write a lesson for this topic soon.
> 
> Kind regards,
> Panos
> --
> 
> On Sat, 16 May 2020 at 17:49, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> This is not to answer my own question, but to emphasise the apparent
>> difficulty of getting this aspect of creating an iOS app right just by
>> using just LC and a reasonable graphics editor on a Mac. It means to me
>> that a lot of careful instructions need to be provided by somebody in the
>> LC universe, since the policy (I sincerely hope!) is to get LC developers
>> to avoid getting deep into XCode. I found this, which frankly scares me.
>> 
>> https://wiki.starling-framework.org/manual/ios_launch_images
>> 
>> Can anyone help me to a less nerdy way of getting this right? I don?t
>> even know what a storyboard is!
>> 
>> Graham
>> 
>>> On 16 May 2020, at 00:40, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I see that the iOS Standalone Settings have changed in this version, no
>> doubt to accommodate Apple?s new rules. One is required to provide six
>> images as ?Launch Images? under the ?Splash? tab. It seems that there?s an
>> image, a 2x image and a 3x image, and then another three for dark mode.
>>> 
>>> There is no tooltip to suggest how large these images should be - in
>> previous versions they had to be tailored to different device screen sizes.
>> Now it seems anything goes, or does it?
>>> 
>>> Can anyone explain what the dimensions of these images are supposed to
>> be? Does ?2x? just mean twice the original size in each direction or what?
>> Can?t see anything in the release notes, but maybe I wasn?t paying
>> attention.
>>> 
>>> Graham
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From livfoss at mac.com  Sun May 17 16:11:43 2020
From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel)
Date: Sun, 17 May 2020 22:11:43 +0200
Subject: Sad truth about iOS apps
In-Reply-To: <751BEB2C-4B0F-43D5-A8C0-671C27204EDA@porta.ca>
References: <751BEB2C-4B0F-43D5-A8C0-671C27204EDA@porta.ca>
Message-ID: <D3787F42-7586-4BF4-9929-9C7CFFF5B765@mac.com>

Thanks - I hope I have the same experience as you - just bit the bullet and ordered a new iMac. 

Graham

Sent from my iPhone

> On 17 May 2020, at 18:47, Dev via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> ?No problems on two machines here with Catalina and Mail. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On May 17, 2020, at 1:32 AM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> ?There is a consistent tale (more than a rumour, I think) that Catalina can mess up some people's mail messages, if you use Apple Mail. Did that affect you? It?s the thing about Catalina that scares me most - after all, we?ve had lots of warning about 32 bit apps.
>> 
>> Graham
>> 
>>>> On 17 May 2020, at 00:01, kee nethery via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Replaced or just deleted any 32 bit apps I had. Opened files in 32 bit apps and converted them into something else, typically Text or PDF. Lots of files I printed to PDF and stored the PDF versions. 
>>> 
>>> Bought some software to open MacDraw files and save them as PDF.
>>> 
>>> I had some WriteNow files that I had to move to a really old laptop, print to PDF, and then move back. 
>>> 
>>> All in all, I?m pretty sure that every file I now have can be viewed under Catalina. And thus, I have migrated to Catalina. It took a bunch of time, but hey, have lots of time right now.
>>> 
>>> Kee
>>> 
>>>>> On May 16, 2020, at 6:40 AM, Rick Harrison via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> For those who upgrade to Catalina, remember you will lose any 32 bit apps
>>>> as Apple has forced everyone to move to 64 bit apps.
>>>> 
>>>> Good luck!
>>>> 
>>>> Rick
>>>> 
>>>>> On May 16, 2020, at 5:42 AM, Erik Beugelaar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Update: You can direclty upgrade from High Sierra to Catalina using the macOS Catalina Patcher.
>>>>> Be sure that High Sierra is up-to-date and using APFS (new Apple File System) instead of HFS+.
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au  Sun May 17 20:27:39 2020
From: neville.smythe at optusnet.com.au (Neville Smythe)
Date: Mon, 18 May 2020 10:27:39 +1000
Subject: Catalina and Apple mail
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1589731201.367893.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
References: <mailman.1.1589731201.367893.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <CDA2B017-87E6-4036-9853-0A26C316F9B7@optusnet.com.au>

Graham: before updating to Catalina definitely make a back of everything. When I updated I lost 35000 emails. Not just that they weren't loaded  by Mail, they were actually deleted from the computer. That said, that was some months ago, and Catalina has since solved that problem - reportedly; I have certainly had no problems since recent OS updates. Also it is safest to do a clean instal if you can rather an update from Mojave or whatever.

The experience was quite nasty. But in the process of using some LC code to recover my emails from a backup [BTW TimeMachine wouldn?t do the recovery automatically] I learnt a huge amount about mailbox structures and sqlite databases and found thousands of duplicate emails.

Neville

> On 18 May 2020, at 2:00 am, use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com wrote:
> 
> Send use-livecode mailing list submissions to
> 	use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> 	http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> 	use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> 	use-livecode-owner at lists.runrev.com
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of use-livecode digest..."
> 
> 
> you can find the archives for this list at:
> 
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> 
> and search them using this link:
> 
> http://www.google.com/advanced_search?q=site:lists.runrev.com
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. Re: Apps to fight COVID-19 (Dar Scott Consulting)
>   2. Re: Sad truth about iOS apps (kee nethery)
>   3. Re: Sad truth about iOS apps (Graham Samuel)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 16 May 2020 11:30:39 -0600
> From: Dar Scott Consulting <dsc at swcp.com>
> To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Subject: Re: Apps to fight COVID-19
> Message-ID: <0E24EE6E-635F-4835-A635-14FB512582D9 at swcp.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=us-ascii
> 
> Covid Watch (where I'm working) is decentralized. (of course) 
> 
>> On May 14, 2020, at 10:35 AM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Updated news: Germany steps up to the plate
>> 
>> https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-52650576
>> https://github.com/corona-warn-app/cwa-documentation
>> 
>> -- 
>> Mark Wieder
>> ahsoftware at gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 16 May 2020 15:01:32 -0700
> From: kee nethery <kee.nethery at elloco.com>
> To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Subject: Re: Sad truth about iOS apps
> Message-ID: <6D75B644-1ACF-4279-A960-840585638D2F at elloco.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=utf-8
> 
> Replaced or just deleted any 32 bit apps I had. Opened files in 32 bit apps and converted them into something else, typically Text or PDF. Lots of files I printed to PDF and stored the PDF versions. 
> 
> Bought some software to open MacDraw files and save them as PDF.
> 
> I had some WriteNow files that I had to move to a really old laptop, print to PDF, and then move back. 
> 
> All in all, I?m pretty sure that every file I now have can be viewed under Catalina. And thus, I have migrated to Catalina. It took a bunch of time, but hey, have lots of time right now.
> 
> Kee
> 
>> On May 16, 2020, at 6:40 AM, Rick Harrison via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> For those who upgrade to Catalina, remember you will lose any 32 bit apps
>> as Apple has forced everyone to move to 64 bit apps.
>> 
>> Good luck!
>> 
>> Rick
>> 
>>> On May 16, 2020, at 5:42 AM, Erik Beugelaar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Update: You can direclty upgrade from High Sierra to Catalina using the macOS Catalina Patcher.
>>> Be sure that High Sierra is up-to-date and using APFS (new Apple File System) instead of HFS+.
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 17 May 2020 09:31:53 +0200
> From: Graham Samuel <livfoss at mac.com>
> To: How to use LiveCode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Subject: Re: Sad truth about iOS apps
> Message-ID: <23F7CB91-5AF3-47A7-BBC7-8243FCABF91C at mac.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=utf-8
> 
> There is a consistent tale (more than a rumour, I think) that Catalina can mess up some people's mail messages, if you use Apple Mail. Did that affect you? It?s the thing about Catalina that scares me most - after all, we?ve had lots of warning about 32 bit apps.
> 
> Graham
> 
>> On 17 May 2020, at 00:01, kee nethery via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Replaced or just deleted any 32 bit apps I had. Opened files in 32 bit apps and converted them into something else, typically Text or PDF. Lots of files I printed to PDF and stored the PDF versions. 
>> 
>> Bought some software to open MacDraw files and save them as PDF.
>> 
>> I had some WriteNow files that I had to move to a really old laptop, print to PDF, and then move back. 
>> 
>> All in all, I?m pretty sure that every file I now have can be viewed under Catalina. And thus, I have migrated to Catalina. It took a bunch of time, but hey, have lots of time right now.
>> 
>> Kee
>> 
>>> On May 16, 2020, at 6:40 AM, Rick Harrison via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> For those who upgrade to Catalina, remember you will lose any 32 bit apps
>>> as Apple has forced everyone to move to 64 bit apps.
>>> 
>>> Good luck!
>>> 
>>> Rick
>>> 
>>>> On May 16, 2020, at 5:42 AM, Erik Beugelaar via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Update: You can direclty upgrade from High Sierra to Catalina using the macOS Catalina Patcher.
>>>> Be sure that High Sierra is up-to-date and using APFS (new Apple File System) instead of HFS+.
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Subject: Digest Footer
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> End of use-livecode Digest, Vol 200, Issue 23
> *********************************************




From heather at livecode.com  Mon May 18 09:31:31 2020
From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine)
Date: Mon, 18 May 2020 14:31:31 +0100
Subject: Our Next Community Zoom Meeting
Message-ID: <30C17A1F-97E4-46AC-B326-88DBC5C858D3@livecode.com>

Dear List Folks,

I have scheduled our next use-list/community zoom meeting for 4pm, Friday, 22nd May. I hope as many as possible of you can join me. 

These meetings are open to anyone who wishes to discuss LiveCode, share hints and tips and see a friendly face during this period of isolation for many. I will be there in a moderation capacity, to facilitate discussion. The actual debate, discussion, conversation and topics is down to you guys and gals! Come along and bring a topic you'd like to share/learn information on. Just to reiterate, the usual list rules apply: we're talking LiveCode, we're not talking religion or politics, and cheese should be kept to a minimum :)

Registration link:

https://us02web.zoom.us/meeting/register/tZckc-Guqz4pGtbgnkR6LW64h2ml_Y2FpMjU <https://us02web.zoom.us/meeting/register/tZckc-Guqz4pGtbgnkR6LW64h2ml_Y2FpMjU>


Best Regards,

Heather


Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com





From prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org  Mon May 18 10:51:08 2020
From: prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org (Prothero-ELS)
Date: Mon, 18 May 2020 07:51:08 -0700
Subject: Our Next Community Zoom Meeting
In-Reply-To: <30C17A1F-97E4-46AC-B326-88DBC5C858D3@livecode.com>
References: <30C17A1F-97E4-46AC-B326-88DBC5C858D3@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <89A089DD-DA91-4FE4-8917-F37BB75D346A@earthlearningsolutions.org>

Hear her,
Friday, 4PM... time zone? 
Thanks,
Bill

William Prothero
https://earthlearningsolutions.org

> On May 18, 2020, at 6:31 AM, Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> ?Dear List Folks,
> 
> I have scheduled our next use-list/community zoom meeting for 4pm, Friday, 22nd May. I hope as many as possible of you can join me. 
> 
> These meetings are open to anyone who wishes to discuss LiveCode, share hints and tips and see a friendly face during this period of isolation for many. I will be there in a moderation capacity, to facilitate discussion. The actual debate, discussion, conversation and topics is down to you guys and gals! Come along and bring a topic you'd like to share/learn information on. Just to reiterate, the usual list rules apply: we're talking LiveCode, we're not talking religion or politics, and cheese should be kept to a minimum :)
> 
> Registration link:
> 
> https://us02web.zoom.us/meeting/register/tZckc-Guqz4pGtbgnkR6LW64h2ml_Y2FpMjU <https://us02web.zoom.us/meeting/register/tZckc-Guqz4pGtbgnkR6LW64h2ml_Y2FpMjU>
> 
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Heather
> 
> 
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org  Mon May 18 11:02:45 2020
From: prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org (Prothero-ELS)
Date: Mon, 18 May 2020 08:02:45 -0700
Subject: Our Next Community Zoom Meeting
In-Reply-To: <89A089DD-DA91-4FE4-8917-F37BB75D346A@earthlearningsolutions.org>
References: <89A089DD-DA91-4FE4-8917-F37BB75D346A@earthlearningsolutions.org>
Message-ID: <F788E642-4DFA-45AC-AED8-40F114EDB998@earthlearningsolutions.org>

Folks,
Sometimes Apple?s auto-correct embarrasses me, especially if I carelessly don?t read what I just typed.

I know Heather? is not spelled ?Hear her?.

The time zone for the meeting time will help me not miss it by hours.

Best,
Bill

William Prothero
https://earthlearningsolutions.org

> On May 18, 2020, at 7:51 AM, Prothero-ELS <prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org> wrote:
> 
> ?Hear her,
> Friday, 4PM... time zone? 
> Thanks,
> Bill
> 
> William Prothero
> https://earthlearningsolutions.org
> 
>> On May 18, 2020, at 6:31 AM, Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> ?Dear List Folks,
>> 
>> I have scheduled our next use-list/community zoom meeting for 4pm, Friday, 22nd May. I hope as many as possible of you can join me. 
>> 
>> These meetings are open to anyone who wishes to discuss LiveCode, share hints and tips and see a friendly face during this period of isolation for many. I will be there in a moderation capacity, to facilitate discussion. The actual debate, discussion, conversation and topics is down to you guys and gals! Come along and bring a topic you'd like to share/learn information on. Just to reiterate, the usual list rules apply: we're talking LiveCode, we're not talking religion or politics, and cheese should be kept to a minimum :)
>> 
>> Registration link:
>> 
>> https://us02web.zoom.us/meeting/register/tZckc-Guqz4pGtbgnkR6LW64h2ml_Y2FpMjU <https://us02web.zoom.us/meeting/register/tZckc-Guqz4pGtbgnkR6LW64h2ml_Y2FpMjU>
>> 
>> 
>> Best Regards,
>> 
>> Heather
>> 
>> 
>> Heather Laine
>> Customer Services Manager
>> LiveCode Ltd
>> www.livecode.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From panos.merakos at livecode.com  Mon May 18 11:37:54 2020
From: panos.merakos at livecode.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Mon, 18 May 2020 18:37:54 +0300
Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 226
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq876yCqzViL-LXJZjph3v3Jy_aDnrNb9pTNzbpfvb=3Ag@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

Read about new developments in LiveCode open source and the open source
community in today's edition of the "This Week in LiveCode" newsletter!

        Read issue #226 here: https://bit.ly/2XbD0St

This is a weekly newsletter about LiveCode, focussing on what's been
going on in and around the open source project. New issues will be
released weekly on Mondays. We have a dedicated mailing list that will
deliver each issue directly to you e-mail, so you don't miss any!

If you have anything you'd like mentioned (a project, a discussion
somewhere, an upcoming event) then please get in touch.

-- 
Panagiotis Merakos <panos.merakos at livecode.com>
LiveCode Software Developer

Everyone Can Create Apps <https://livecode.com>


From heather at livecode.com  Mon May 18 12:33:57 2020
From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine)
Date: Mon, 18 May 2020 17:33:57 +0100
Subject: Our Next Community Zoom Meeting
In-Reply-To: <F788E642-4DFA-45AC-AED8-40F114EDB998@earthlearningsolutions.org>
References: <89A089DD-DA91-4FE4-8917-F37BB75D346A@earthlearningsolutions.org>
 <F788E642-4DFA-45AC-AED8-40F114EDB998@earthlearningsolutions.org>
Message-ID: <E29530A9-1A9C-4791-B729-FE35C495118B@livecode.com>

4pm UK summer time. We are 8 hours ahead of California. We are 5 hours ahead of New York. We are 8 hours behind Sydney, Australia.

I hope this helps...

See you Friday!

Heather


Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com



> On 18 May 2020, at 16:02, Prothero-ELS via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Folks,
> Sometimes Apple?s auto-correct embarrasses me, especially if I carelessly don?t read what I just typed.
> 
> I know Heather? is not spelled ?Hear her?.
> 
> The time zone for the meeting time will help me not miss it by hours.
> 
> Best,
> Bill
> 
> William Prothero
> https://earthlearningsolutions.org
> 
>> On May 18, 2020, at 7:51 AM, Prothero-ELS <prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org> wrote:
>> 
>> ?Hear her,
>> Friday, 4PM... time zone? 
>> Thanks,
>> Bill
>> 
>> William Prothero
>> https://earthlearningsolutions.org
>> 
>>> On May 18, 2020, at 6:31 AM, Heather Laine via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?Dear List Folks,
>>> 
>>> I have scheduled our next use-list/community zoom meeting for 4pm, Friday, 22nd May. I hope as many as possible of you can join me. 
>>> 
>>> These meetings are open to anyone who wishes to discuss LiveCode, share hints and tips and see a friendly face during this period of isolation for many. I will be there in a moderation capacity, to facilitate discussion. The actual debate, discussion, conversation and topics is down to you guys and gals! Come along and bring a topic you'd like to share/learn information on. Just to reiterate, the usual list rules apply: we're talking LiveCode, we're not talking religion or politics, and cheese should be kept to a minimum :)
>>> 
>>> Registration link:
>>> 
>>> https://us02web.zoom.us/meeting/register/tZckc-Guqz4pGtbgnkR6LW64h2ml_Y2FpMjU <https://us02web.zoom.us/meeting/register/tZckc-Guqz4pGtbgnkR6LW64h2ml_Y2FpMjU>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Best Regards,
>>> 
>>> Heather
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Heather Laine
>>> Customer Services Manager
>>> LiveCode Ltd
>>> www.livecode.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From ahsoftware at sonic.net  Mon May 18 13:46:02 2020
From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Mon, 18 May 2020 10:46:02 -0700
Subject: Our Next Community Zoom Meeting (3=2?)
In-Reply-To: <E29530A9-1A9C-4791-B729-FE35C495118B@livecode.com>
References: <89A089DD-DA91-4FE4-8917-F37BB75D346A@earthlearningsolutions.org>
 <F788E642-4DFA-45AC-AED8-40F114EDB998@earthlearningsolutions.org>
 <E29530A9-1A9C-4791-B729-FE35C495118B@livecode.com>
Message-ID: <f6e2d14e-69fa-2718-9570-47fe28a38417@sonic.net>

On 5/18/20 9:33 AM, Heather Laine via use-livecode wrote:
> 4pm UK summer time. We are 8 hours ahead of California. We are 5 hours ahead of New York. We are 8 hours behind Sydney, Australia.

OK. By my reckoning that's
8AM PST
11AM EST
and I don't even know what day that is in Sydney. Is that Saturday morning?

...I thought like-minded had to be hyphenated, but apparently it's 
optional. I also thought it had three syllables, but hyphenator tells me 
I'm wrong because internet.

https://www.hyphenator.net/en/word/like-minded

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From livfoss at mac.com  Mon May 18 16:45:06 2020
From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel)
Date: Mon, 18 May 2020 22:45:06 +0200
Subject: Changing text properties in a field via the IDE
Message-ID: <1EC5B35D-8124-4C66-8657-E0BF8E43B639@mac.com>

I?m using LC 9.6.0 rc1 on a Mac. Just now I did something very simple that didn?t work. I created a label field, opened the Property Inspector for the field and changed its text - that worked. Then I attempted to change the font size - that didn?t work. The appearance of the label in the stack itself didn?t change, nor could I change the font, make the text bold etc. I tried this again with a regular field - same result. I started a new stack with just the one field - same result. 

All these values can be changed by script, in the Message Box or elsewhere, but I can?t make them in the IDE by changing values in the Property Inspector.

What am I doing wrong?

Graham


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Mon May 18 16:56:44 2020
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Mon, 18 May 2020 13:56:44 -0700
Subject: Changing text properties in a field via the IDE
In-Reply-To: <1EC5B35D-8124-4C66-8657-E0BF8E43B639@mac.com>
References: <1EC5B35D-8124-4C66-8657-E0BF8E43B639@mac.com>
Message-ID: <6c7cdc53-ed82-5d73-aca6-2b996c323f7a@fourthworld.com>

Graham Samuel wrote:

 > I?m using LC 9.6.0 rc1 on a Mac. Just now I did something very simple
 > that didn?t work. I created a label field, opened the Property
 > Inspector for the field and changed its text - that worked. Then I
 > attempted to change the font size - that didn?t work. The appearance
 > of the label in the stack itself didn?t change, nor could I change the
 > font, make the text bold etc. I tried this again with a regular field
 > - same result. I started a new stack with just the one field - same
 > result.
 >
 > All these values can be changed by script, in the Message Box or
 > elsewhere, but I can?t make them in the IDE by changing values in the
 > Property Inspector.
 >
 > What am I doing wrong?

Text attributes can be set in the field, and the field properties can be 
overridden by a text run within the field.

When changing field properties doesn't change what you see, try 
selecting the text within the field and changing that.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com




From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Mon May 18 16:59:29 2020
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Mon, 18 May 2020 16:59:29 -0400
Subject: Changing text properties in a field via the IDE
In-Reply-To: <1EC5B35D-8124-4C66-8657-E0BF8E43B639@mac.com>
References: <1EC5B35D-8124-4C66-8657-E0BF8E43B639@mac.com>
Message-ID: <00a201d62d57$3bf4c530$b3de4f90$@net>

Works OK on Mac and PC here LC 9.6 rc1. I created new stack put in a label field. I did not change the default text. Could it be the actual text you put in the field causing the PI problem for you?

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net


-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Graham Samuel via use-livecode
Sent: Monday, May 18, 2020 4:45 PM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: Graham Samuel
Subject: Changing text properties in a field via the IDE

I?m using LC 9.6.0 rc1 on a Mac. Just now I did something very simple that didn?t work. I created a label field, opened the Property Inspector for the field and changed its text - that worked. Then I attempted to change the font size - that didn?t work. The appearance of the label in the stack itself didn?t change, nor could I change the font, make the text bold etc. I tried this again with a regular field - same result. I started a new stack with just the one field - same result. 

All these values can be changed by script, in the Message Box or elsewhere, but I can?t make them in the IDE by changing values in the Property Inspector.

What am I doing wrong?

Graham
_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From livfoss at mac.com  Tue May 19 08:37:31 2020
From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel)
Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 14:37:31 +0200
Subject: Changing text properties in a field via the IDE
In-Reply-To: <00a201d62d57$3bf4c530$b3de4f90$@net>
References: <1EC5B35D-8124-4C66-8657-E0BF8E43B639@mac.com>
 <00a201d62d57$3bf4c530$b3de4f90$@net>
Message-ID: <5970D498-2574-4151-8299-4B5C8046CB09@mac.com>

Yep, that was it! I had pasted some text from elsewhere. The text **looks** perfectly normal (and the count of characters is the same as in the visual representation of them, so none apparently hidden), but in some way it must mess up the functioning of the Property Inspector. As Ralph confirms, the initial text (in a Label Field, it?s just ?Label:?) can be changed via the Property Inspector without being specifically selected - in fact you can?t select the ?contents? text in the Property Inspector display. So IMHO it?s a bug, if a minor one. Will report it, but I don?t expect a quick solution. Odd, though.

Thanks to Ralph and Richard

Graham

> On 18 May 2020, at 22:59, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Works OK on Mac and PC here LC 9.6 rc1. I created new stack put in a label field. I did not change the default text. Could it be the actual text you put in the field causing the PI problem for you?
> 
> Ralph DiMola
> IT Director
> Evergreen Information Services
> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Graham Samuel via use-livecode
> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2020 4:45 PM
> To: How to use LiveCode
> Cc: Graham Samuel
> Subject: Changing text properties in a field via the IDE
> 
> I?m using LC 9.6.0 rc1 on a Mac. Just now I did something very simple that didn?t work. I created a label field, opened the Property Inspector for the field and changed its text - that worked. Then I attempted to change the font size - that didn?t work. The appearance of the label in the stack itself didn?t change, nor could I change the font, make the text bold etc. I tried this again with a regular field - same result. I started a new stack with just the one field - same result. 
> 
> All these values can be changed by script, in the Message Box or elsewhere, but I can?t make them in the IDE by changing values in the Property Inspector.
> 
> What am I doing wrong?
> 
> Graham
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From tore.nilsen at me.com  Tue May 19 08:46:47 2020
From: tore.nilsen at me.com (Tore Nilsen)
Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 14:46:47 +0200
Subject: Changing text properties in a field via the IDE
In-Reply-To: <5970D498-2574-4151-8299-4B5C8046CB09@mac.com>
References: <1EC5B35D-8124-4C66-8657-E0BF8E43B639@mac.com>
 <00a201d62d57$3bf4c530$b3de4f90$@net>
 <5970D498-2574-4151-8299-4B5C8046CB09@mac.com>
Message-ID: <53385F41-8A99-46AD-B1C9-E25A6D9975E0@me.com>

I am not sure this is a bug. When you use the normal paste function you actually paste in styled text. New text, following the text you pasted in will inherit the styling of the last character of the text you pasted into the field. This then would work the same way as if you selected some text in the field and altered the styling of this selected text. All unselected text would adhere to the properties set in the Inspector. In my opinion this is what you would expect from any text editor. If you would like to paste in some text without the styling you should use ?Paste Unformatted? in the IDE.

Regards
Tore Nilsen

> 19. mai 2020 kl. 14:37 skrev Graham Samuel via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Yep, that was it! I had pasted some text from elsewhere. The text **looks** perfectly normal (and the count of characters is the same as in the visual representation of them, so none apparently hidden), but in some way it must mess up the functioning of the Property Inspector. As Ralph confirms, the initial text (in a Label Field, it?s just ?Label:?) can be changed via the Property Inspector without being specifically selected - in fact you can?t select the ?contents? text in the Property Inspector display. So IMHO it?s a bug, if a minor one. Will report it, but I don?t expect a quick solution. Odd, though.
> 
> Thanks to Ralph and Richard
> 
> Graham
> 
>> On 18 May 2020, at 22:59, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Works OK on Mac and PC here LC 9.6 rc1. I created new stack put in a label field. I did not change the default text. Could it be the actual text you put in the field causing the PI problem for you?
>> 
>> Ralph DiMola
>> IT Director
>> Evergreen Information Services
>> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Graham Samuel via use-livecode
>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2020 4:45 PM
>> To: How to use LiveCode
>> Cc: Graham Samuel
>> Subject: Changing text properties in a field via the IDE
>> 
>> I?m using LC 9.6.0 rc1 on a Mac. Just now I did something very simple that didn?t work. I created a label field, opened the Property Inspector for the field and changed its text - that worked. Then I attempted to change the font size - that didn?t work. The appearance of the label in the stack itself didn?t change, nor could I change the font, make the text bold etc. I tried this again with a regular field - same result. I started a new stack with just the one field - same result. 
>> 
>> All these values can be changed by script, in the Message Box or elsewhere, but I can?t make them in the IDE by changing values in the Property Inspector.
>> 
>> What am I doing wrong?
>> 
>> Graham
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com  Tue May 19 11:13:47 2020
From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar)
Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 15:13:47 +0000
Subject: Changing text properties in a field via the IDE
In-Reply-To: <5970D498-2574-4151-8299-4B5C8046CB09@mac.com>
References: <1EC5B35D-8124-4C66-8657-E0BF8E43B639@mac.com>
 <00a201d62d57$3bf4c530$b3de4f90$@net>
 <5970D498-2574-4151-8299-4B5C8046CB09@mac.com>
Message-ID: <6E60DEC0-ADE5-479E-B186-473E212C4820@iotecdigital.com>

I had to write a function that returns only true ASCII printable characters because when I performed a drag/drop operation from a searchable PDF, I discovered that Acrobat puts all kinds of hidden characters in the text that really messes with LC. It?s a simple function:

FUNCTION cleanASCII pString, pModeList, pCustomList
   /*
   pModeList is a comma delimited list that may contain the following values:
   "lowercase,uppercase,numbers,tabs,newlines,returns,spaces,symbols,custom"
   If custom is used, then a third paramaeter containing allowed characters must be supplied.
   */
   IF pModeList is empty THEN
      put " 0-9a-zA-Z" into tAllowedChars
   END IF

   IF pModeList contains dash THEN replace dash with "/" & dash in pModeList

   REPEAT for each item pMode in pModeList
      put word 1 of pMode into pMode

      SWITCH
            break
         CASE "tabs" is in pMode
            put "\t" AFTER tAllowedChars
            break
         CASE "newlines" is in pMode
            put "\n" BEFORE tAllowedChars
            break
         CASE "returns" is in pMode
            put "\r" BEFORE tAllowedChars -- currently not working
            break
         CASE "spaces" is in pMode
            put " " AFTER tAllowedChars
            break
         CASE "numbers" is in pMode
            put "0-9" AFTER tAllowedChars
            break
         CASE "lowercase" is in pMode
            put "a-z" AFTER tAllowedChars
            break
         CASE "uppercase" is in pMode
            put "A-Z" AFTER tAllowedChars
            break
         CASE "symbols" is in pMode
            put "!#$%&'()*+,./:;<=>?@[\\_`{|}~^-" AFTER tAllowedChars
            break
         CASE pMode is "custom"
            put pCustomList AFTER tAllowedChars
            break
      END SWITCH
   END REPEAT

   put "[" & tAllowedChars & "]" into tMatchText

   REPEAT for each character  theChar in pString
      IF matchtext(theChar, tMatchText) is true THEN
         put theChar AFTER cleanString
      END IF
   END REPEAT

   return cleanString
END cleanASCII

Bob S


On May 19, 2020, at 5:37 AM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com<mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>> wrote:

Yep, that was it! I had pasted some text from elsewhere. The text **looks** perfectly normal (and the count of characters is the same as in the visual representation of them, so none apparently hidden), but in some way it must mess up the functioning of the Property Inspector. As Ralph confirms, the initial text (in a Label Field, it?s just ?Label:?) can be changed via the Property Inspector without being specifically selected - in fact you can?t select the ?contents? text in the Property Inspector display. So IMHO it?s a bug, if a minor one. Will report it, but I don?t expect a quick solution. Odd, though.

Thanks to Ralph and Richard

Graham


From livfoss at mac.com  Tue May 19 13:23:09 2020
From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel)
Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 19:23:09 +0200
Subject: Changing text properties in a field via the IDE
In-Reply-To: <53385F41-8A99-46AD-B1C9-E25A6D9975E0@me.com>
References: <1EC5B35D-8124-4C66-8657-E0BF8E43B639@mac.com>
 <00a201d62d57$3bf4c530$b3de4f90$@net>
 <5970D498-2574-4151-8299-4B5C8046CB09@mac.com>
 <53385F41-8A99-46AD-B1C9-E25A6D9975E0@me.com>
Message-ID: <D54019FD-32BF-48A1-B23F-92DFDBD296A9@mac.com>

Well, Tore, I think this is a rather purist view! To an ordinary LC developer, if you can change the properties of the initial text (to a different size for example) without overtly selecting it, then the same behaviour can be expected from the IDE when trying to change text you?ve pasted in. It may or may not be styled, but the confusing part is that selecting the text in the Object Inspector has no effect, therefore the assumption is that all the text you see should logically be changed when you change a text property. Otherwise what?s the point of these properties being available in the Object Inspector?

I wonder what the mother ship will say.

Graham

> On 19 May 2020, at 14:46, Tore Nilsen via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I am not sure this is a bug. When you use the normal paste function you actually paste in styled text. New text, following the text you pasted in will inherit the styling of the last character of the text you pasted into the field. This then would work the same way as if you selected some text in the field and altered the styling of this selected text. All unselected text would adhere to the properties set in the Inspector. In my opinion this is what you would expect from any text editor. If you would like to paste in some text without the styling you should use ?Paste Unformatted? in the IDE.
> 
> Regards
> Tore Nilsen
> 
>> 19. mai 2020 kl. 14:37 skrev Graham Samuel via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> Yep, that was it! I had pasted some text from elsewhere. The text **looks** perfectly normal (and the count of characters is the same as in the visual representation of them, so none apparently hidden), but in some way it must mess up the functioning of the Property Inspector. As Ralph confirms, the initial text (in a Label Field, it?s just ?Label:?) can be changed via the Property Inspector without being specifically selected - in fact you can?t select the ?contents? text in the Property Inspector display. So IMHO it?s a bug, if a minor one. Will report it, but I don?t expect a quick solution. Odd, though.
>> 
>> Thanks to Ralph and Richard
>> 
>> Graham
>> 
>>> On 18 May 2020, at 22:59, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Works OK on Mac and PC here LC 9.6 rc1. I created new stack put in a label field. I did not change the default text. Could it be the actual text you put in the field causing the PI problem for you?
>>> 
>>> Ralph DiMola
>>> IT Director
>>> Evergreen Information Services
>>> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Graham Samuel via use-livecode
>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2020 4:45 PM
>>> To: How to use LiveCode
>>> Cc: Graham Samuel
>>> Subject: Changing text properties in a field via the IDE
>>> 
>>> I?m using LC 9.6.0 rc1 on a Mac. Just now I did something very simple that didn?t work. I created a label field, opened the Property Inspector for the field and changed its text - that worked. Then I attempted to change the font size - that didn?t work. The appearance of the label in the stack itself didn?t change, nor could I change the font, make the text bold etc. I tried this again with a regular field - same result. I started a new stack with just the one field - same result. 
>>> 
>>> All these values can be changed by script, in the Message Box or elsewhere, but I can?t make them in the IDE by changing values in the Property Inspector.
>>> 
>>> What am I doing wrong?
>>> 
>>> Graham
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue May 19 13:53:12 2020
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 10:53:12 -0700
Subject: Changing text properties in a field via the IDE
In-Reply-To: <D54019FD-32BF-48A1-B23F-92DFDBD296A9@mac.com>
References: <D54019FD-32BF-48A1-B23F-92DFDBD296A9@mac.com>
Message-ID: <857264a8-d363-fad8-b6cb-911bd3002e27@fourthworld.com>

Graham Samuel wrote:

 > To an ordinary LC developer, if you can change the properties of the
 > initial text (to a different size for example) without overtly
 > selecting it, then the same behaviour can be expected from the IDE
 > when trying to change text you?ve pasted in. It may or may not be
 > styled, but the confusing part is that selecting the text in the
 > Object Inspector has no effect...

I just tried this recipe:

1. Paste styled text into a field
2. Choose pointer tool
3. Double-click the field to open the Inspector
4. In the Inspector, navigate to the Text pane
5. In that pane, select text, then type Ctrl-B

RESULT: Both the styled text in the Inspector and the styled text in the 
field being inspected updates the contents to show the portion I'd 
changed to bold.

Is that not working there?

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From tore.nilsen at me.com  Tue May 19 13:57:58 2020
From: tore.nilsen at me.com (Tore Nilsen)
Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 19:57:58 +0200
Subject: Changing text properties in a field via the IDE
In-Reply-To: <857264a8-d363-fad8-b6cb-911bd3002e27@fourthworld.com>
References: <D54019FD-32BF-48A1-B23F-92DFDBD296A9@mac.com>
 <857264a8-d363-fad8-b6cb-911bd3002e27@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <A9650545-2EA1-4393-B4D4-98ABE2A1110B@me.com>

I was trying the same thing in LC 9.6 (dp4) and it works here. It works both when selecting the text in the text pane in the navigator or selecting text in the field itself.

Regards
Tore Nilsen

> 19. mai 2020 kl. 19:53 skrev Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> I just tried this recipe:
> 
> 1. Paste styled text into a field
> 2. Choose pointer tool
> 3. Double-click the field to open the Inspector
> 4. In the Inspector, navigate to the Text pane
> 5. In that pane, select text, then type Ctrl-B
> 
> RESULT: Both the styled text in the Inspector and the styled text in the field being inspected updates the contents to show the portion I'd changed to bold.
> 
> Is that not working there?



From livfoss at mac.com  Tue May 19 17:10:20 2020
From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel)
Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 23:10:20 +0200
Subject: Changing text properties in a field via the IDE
In-Reply-To: <857264a8-d363-fad8-b6cb-911bd3002e27@fourthworld.com>
References: <D54019FD-32BF-48A1-B23F-92DFDBD296A9@mac.com>
 <857264a8-d363-fad8-b6cb-911bd3002e27@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <26D10112-776A-458A-ABC2-3A490E7C0504@mac.com>

Well, I am happy to be wrong, so I repeated exactly what you did, of course using my own bit of styled text. It didn?t work - partly because I can only select the text in the field itself in ?run? mode, but I can only see the Inspector in ?edit? mode. When I switch between the two modes, I can?t do your (5), because I can?t select the text in the pane as you suggest.

I am sorry to be dumb - I expect you?re right, but it really doesn?t work for me.

Graham


> On 19 May 2020, at 19:53, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Graham Samuel wrote:
> 
> > To an ordinary LC developer, if you can change the properties of the
> > initial text (to a different size for example) without overtly
> > selecting it, then the same behaviour can be expected from the IDE
> > when trying to change text you?ve pasted in. It may or may not be
> > styled, but the confusing part is that selecting the text in the
> > Object Inspector has no effect...
> 
> I just tried this recipe:
> 
> 1. Paste styled text into a field
> 2. Choose pointer tool
> 3. Double-click the field to open the Inspector
> 4. In the Inspector, navigate to the Text pane
> 5. In that pane, select text, then type Ctrl-B
> 
> RESULT: Both the styled text in the Inspector and the styled text in the field being inspected updates the contents to show the portion I'd changed to bold.
> 
> Is that not working there?
> 
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
> ____________________________________________________________________
> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From paul at researchware.com  Tue May 19 17:18:54 2020
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 17:18:54 -0400
Subject: Drawing a blank on simple code...
Message-ID: <e7b4d3cb-ca13-e1db-e031-185b43eb45ab@researchware.com>

I have a set of custom properties in stack "X", a lot of which begin 
with "options_<somename>"

I want to loop through them and get the values, so I have:

 ? local tDisplayList
 ? put the customKeys of stack "X" into tProperties
 ? filter lines of tProperties with "options_*"
 ? if tProperties is empty then exit to top

 ? repeat for each line tLine in tProperties
 ??? put the customKeys[tLine] of stack "X" into tProp

 ??? -- do stuff here
 ? end repeat


When I walk through this code in the debugger, I see that tProperties 
gets a list of the names of all custom properties in the "X" stack. YEA!

Then I see that that list correctly gets filtered to just those that 
begin with "options_" YEA!

Then I see the in the repeat loop the variable "tLine" get the name of 
each "options" property in succession. YEA!

PROBLEM: put the customKeys[tLine] of stack "X" into tProp DOES NOT 
fetch the value of the indicated property into tProp????

I know this is simple - and I have coded it before - but I can seem to 
find my past code in prior projects and obviously am missing something.



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue May 19 17:21:39 2020
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 16:21:39 -0500
Subject: Mouse messages in scrollers
Message-ID: <af95d8b9-d7b9-4da6-91ee-6920fadd6ef7@hyperactivesw.com>

I have a tall field inside a shorter group that uses a mobile scroller. A behavior assigned to 
the group handles the scrolling and checks for swipes by capturing mouseDown and mouseUp to 
determine touch locations so it can calculate the direction of the swipe. This works on Android.

On iOS I do not get mouseUp or mouseDown messages when swiping horizontally, though I do get 
scrolerDidScroll when swiping vertically. But since the group is exactly as wide as the field 
it encloses, it does not scroll horizontally and so no scrollerDidScroll message is sent. I 
also do not get scrollerBegin/EndDrag, touchStart or touchEnd, or any other message I can think 
of to track a horizontal swipe. I do get mouseUp/Down when tapping on the scroller but that 
doesn't help here.

How would I detect a horizontal swipe on a non-moving scroller? The user can't navigate without it.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From devin_asay at byu.edu  Tue May 19 17:58:15 2020
From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay)
Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 21:58:15 +0000
Subject: Changing text properties in a field via the IDE
In-Reply-To: <26D10112-776A-458A-ABC2-3A490E7C0504@mac.com>
References: <D54019FD-32BF-48A1-B23F-92DFDBD296A9@mac.com>
 <857264a8-d363-fad8-b6cb-911bd3002e27@fourthworld.com>
 <26D10112-776A-458A-ABC2-3A490E7C0504@mac.com>
Message-ID: <B8DFE3DD-F2F0-4298-A70C-0FEF66D19915@byu.edu>

Graham,

If you click the lock icon on the property inspector while you?re in edit mode, the PI for that object will remain open when you switch back to run mode. 

Hope this helps.

Devin

> On May 19, 2020, at 3:10 PM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Well, I am happy to be wrong, so I repeated exactly what you did, of course using my own bit of styled text. It didn?t work - partly because I can only select the text in the field itself in ?run? mode, but I can only see the Inspector in ?edit? mode. When I switch between the two modes, I can?t do your (5), because I can?t select the text in the pane as you suggest.
> 
> I am sorry to be dumb - I expect you?re right, but it really doesn?t work for me.
> 
> Graham
> 
> 
>> On 19 May 2020, at 19:53, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Graham Samuel wrote:
>> 
>>> To an ordinary LC developer, if you can change the properties of the
>>> initial text (to a different size for example) without overtly
>>> selecting it, then the same behaviour can be expected from the IDE
>>> when trying to change text you?ve pasted in. It may or may not be
>>> styled, but the confusing part is that selecting the text in the
>>> Object Inspector has no effect...
>> 
>> I just tried this recipe:
>> 
>> 1. Paste styled text into a field
>> 2. Choose pointer tool
>> 3. Double-click the field to open the Inspector
>> 4. In the Inspector, navigate to the Text pane
>> 5. In that pane, select text, then type Ctrl-B
>> 
>> RESULT: Both the styled text in the Inspector and the styled text in the field being inspected updates the contents to show the portion I'd changed to bold.
>> 
>> Is that not working there?
>> 
>> -- 
>> Richard Gaskin
>> Fourth World Systems
>> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>> ____________________________________________________________________
>> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Devin Asay
Director
Office of Digital Humanities
Brigham Young University


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue May 19 18:00:38 2020
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 17:00:38 -0500
Subject: Mouse messages in scrollers
In-Reply-To: <af95d8b9-d7b9-4da6-91ee-6920fadd6ef7@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <af95d8b9-d7b9-4da6-91ee-6920fadd6ef7@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <155a6799-3b98-9579-cb73-290f5391c877@hyperactivesw.com>

Would the problem be due to the settings for canCancelTouches and delayTouches? What are the 
defaults? And what behaviors do they control exactly? I can't quite figure out what the 
dictionary is saying.

On 5/19/20 4:21 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
> I have a tall field inside a shorter group that uses a mobile scroller. A behavior assigned to 
> the group handles the scrolling and checks for swipes by capturing mouseDown and mouseUp to 
> determine touch locations so it can calculate the direction of the swipe. This works on Android.
> 
> On iOS I do not get mouseUp or mouseDown messages when swiping horizontally, though I do get 
> scrolerDidScroll when swiping vertically. But since the group is exactly as wide as the field 
> it encloses, it does not scroll horizontally and so no scrollerDidScroll message is sent. I 
> also do not get scrollerBegin/EndDrag, touchStart or touchEnd, or any other message I can think 
> of to track a horizontal swipe. I do get mouseUp/Down when tapping on the scroller but that 
> doesn't help here.
> 
> How would I detect a horizontal swipe on a non-moving scroller? The user can't navigate without 
> it.
> 


-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From jmac at consensustech.com  Tue May 19 18:08:06 2020
From: jmac at consensustech.com (Jim MacConnell)
Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 15:08:06 -0700
Subject: Mouse messages in scrollers
In-Reply-To: <af95d8b9-d7b9-4da6-91ee-6920fadd6ef7@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <af95d8b9-d7b9-4da6-91ee-6920fadd6ef7@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <8B5F592B-2454-42BE-8178-33742960491F@consensustech.com>

I don't have an answer and hope someone else does. I hate my workaround.
My workaround is to leave a space on either side of the field (45 px or so.. haven't tried to minimize). 
After the user gets frustrated enough, they end to do a swipe near the edge of the screen (across the blank space and not starting in the field) and that I can trap for and make work.
Once they?ve done it once or twice, they routinely go to the edge of the screen to swipe and it becomes natural. 
Jim

> On May 19, 2020, at 2:21 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I have a tall field inside a shorter group that uses a mobile scroller. A behavior assigned to the group handles the scrolling and checks for swipes by capturing mouseDown and mouseUp to determine touch locations so it can calculate the direction of the swipe. This works on Android.
> 
> On iOS I do not get mouseUp or mouseDown messages when swiping horizontally, though I do get scrolerDidScroll when swiping vertically. But since the group is exactly as wide as the field it encloses, it does not scroll horizontally and so no scrollerDidScroll message is sent. I also do not get scrollerBegin/EndDrag, touchStart or touchEnd, or any other message I can think of to track a horizontal swipe. I do get mouseUp/Down when tapping on the scroller but that doesn't help here.
> 
> How would I detect a horizontal swipe on a non-moving scroller? The user can't navigate without it.
> 
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From scott at elementarysoftware.com  Tue May 19 18:20:21 2020
From: scott at elementarysoftware.com (scott at elementarysoftware.com)
Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 15:20:21 -0700
Subject: Mouse messages in scrollers
In-Reply-To: <af95d8b9-d7b9-4da6-91ee-6920fadd6ef7@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <af95d8b9-d7b9-4da6-91ee-6920fadd6ef7@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <6C9770C7-FD36-4C36-9B43-67CF9303F906@elementarysoftware.com>

I?m using this script on iOS directly inside a LC field object in order to get a "delete button? to appear. (Ya, I know that is pretty ancient UI) But it requires a swipe on iOS which is what you are after. I don?t think it is responsive enough to do some of the fancy pushes that differentiate between showing and sending things. It has been a long time since I worked on this (and I chopped out a lot of code) so it is possible that I?ve missed something. FYI: the field is a ?List? field.


-- I use these values for swiping
put 40 into gHorizontalSwipeDistance
put 15 into gVerticalSwipeDistance

-- I'm assuming the list behavior of the field needs to be true
-- field script

on touchStart pID
   put the mouseV into lMouseStartV
   put the mouseH into lMouseStartH
   -- some actions night need to go here
end touchStart	
  
   
on touchMove pTouchID, pTouchH, pTouchV 
   -- see if there was a swipe for delete
   if ((abs(pTouchH - lMouseStartH) > gHorizontalSwipeDistance)) AND\
   (abs(pTouchV - lMouseStartV) < gVerticalSwipeDistance) then
      -- they swiped
      --  unhilite the line
      set the hilitedLine of fld "ScrollingList" of cd "ListOfLists" to empty
     -- do stuff here
end touchMove


on touchRelease pID
   -- unhilite the line
   set the hilitedLine of fld "ScrollingList" of cd "ListOfLists" to empty
end touchRelease

?
Scott Morrow

Elementary Software
(Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
web       https://elementarysoftware.com/
email     scott at elementarysoftware.com
booth    1-800-615-0867
------------------------------------------------------


> On May 19, 2020, at 2:21 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I have a tall field inside a shorter group that uses a mobile scroller. A behavior assigned to the group handles the scrolling and checks for swipes by capturing mouseDown and mouseUp to determine touch locations so it can calculate the direction of the swipe. This works on Android.
> 
> On iOS I do not get mouseUp or mouseDown messages when swiping horizontally, though I do get scrolerDidScroll when swiping vertically. But since the group is exactly as wide as the field it encloses, it does not scroll horizontally and so no scrollerDidScroll message is sent. I also do not get scrollerBegin/EndDrag, touchStart or touchEnd, or any other message I can think of to track a horizontal swipe. I do get mouseUp/Down when tapping on the scroller but that doesn't help here.
> 
> How would I detect a horizontal swipe on a non-moving scroller? The user can't navigate without it.
> 
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode





From scott at elementarysoftware.com  Tue May 19 18:37:07 2020
From: scott at elementarysoftware.com (scott at elementarysoftware.com)
Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 15:37:07 -0700
Subject: Mouse messages in scrollers
In-Reply-To: <6C9770C7-FD36-4C36-9B43-67CF9303F906@elementarysoftware.com>
References: <af95d8b9-d7b9-4da6-91ee-6920fadd6ef7@hyperactivesw.com>
 <6C9770C7-FD36-4C36-9B43-67CF9303F906@elementarysoftware.com>
Message-ID: <05DE3607-935A-49B3-94BA-D6CE7DD61075@elementarysoftware.com>

Of course I forgot to declare the local and global variables...

global gHorizontalSwipeDistance
global gVerticalSwipeDistance
local lMouseStartV
local lMouseStartH

> On May 19, 2020, at 3:20 PM, scott--- via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I?m using this script on iOS directly inside a LC field object in order to get a "delete button? to appear. (Ya, I know that is pretty ancient UI) But it requires a swipe on iOS which is what you are after. I don?t think it is responsive enough to do some of the fancy pushes that differentiate between showing and sending things. It has been a long time since I worked on this (and I chopped out a lot of code) so it is possible that I?ve missed something. FYI: the field is a ?List? field.
> 
> 
> -- I use these values for swiping
> put 40 into gHorizontalSwipeDistance
> put 15 into gVerticalSwipeDistance
> 
> -- I'm assuming the list behavior of the field needs to be true
> -- field script
> 
> on touchStart pID
>   put the mouseV into lMouseStartV
>   put the mouseH into lMouseStartH
>   -- some actions night need to go here
> end touchStart	
> 
> 
> on touchMove pTouchID, pTouchH, pTouchV 
>   -- see if there was a swipe for delete
>   if ((abs(pTouchH - lMouseStartH) > gHorizontalSwipeDistance)) AND\
>   (abs(pTouchV - lMouseStartV) < gVerticalSwipeDistance) then
>      -- they swiped
>      --  unhilite the line
>      set the hilitedLine of fld "ScrollingList" of cd "ListOfLists" to empty
>     -- do stuff here
> end touchMove
> 
> 
> on touchRelease pID
>   -- unhilite the line
>   set the hilitedLine of fld "ScrollingList" of cd "ListOfLists" to empty
> end touchRelease
> 
> ?
> Scott Morrow
> 
> Elementary Software
> (Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
> web       https://elementarysoftware.com/
> email     scott at elementarysoftware.com
> booth    1-800-615-0867
> ------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
>> On May 19, 2020, at 2:21 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I have a tall field inside a shorter group that uses a mobile scroller. A behavior assigned to the group handles the scrolling and checks for swipes by capturing mouseDown and mouseUp to determine touch locations so it can calculate the direction of the swipe. This works on Android.
>> 
>> On iOS I do not get mouseUp or mouseDown messages when swiping horizontally, though I do get scrolerDidScroll when swiping vertically. But since the group is exactly as wide as the field it encloses, it does not scroll horizontally and so no scrollerDidScroll message is sent. I also do not get scrollerBegin/EndDrag, touchStart or touchEnd, or any other message I can think of to track a horizontal swipe. I do get mouseUp/Down when tapping on the scroller but that doesn't help here.
>> 
>> How would I detect a horizontal swipe on a non-moving scroller? The user can't navigate without it.
>> 
>> -- 
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From phil at pdslabs.net  Tue May 19 18:46:31 2020
From: phil at pdslabs.net (Phil Davis)
Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 15:46:31 -0700
Subject: Drawing a blank on simple code...
In-Reply-To: <e7b4d3cb-ca13-e1db-e031-185b43eb45ab@researchware.com>
References: <e7b4d3cb-ca13-e1db-e031-185b43eb45ab@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <70ccbe9f-53cb-5b9d-3a1e-006ab98ef34c@pdslabs.net>

You're almost there Paul!

On 5/19/20 2:18 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
> I have a set of custom properties in stack "X", a lot of which begin 
> with "options_<somename>"

So I assume these are members of a customPropertySet, whose name I'll 
call "myOptions".

>
> I want to loop through them and get the values, so I have:
>
> ? local tDisplayList
> ? put the customKeys of stack "X" into tProperties
To prevent the unintended, I would do this instead:
 ????? put the customKeys["myOptions"] of stack "X" into tProperties

> filter lines of tProperties with "options_*"
> ? if tProperties is empty then exit to top
>
> ? repeat for each line tLine in tProperties
> ??? put the customKeys[tLine] of stack "X" into tProp
This should work:
 ??????? put the myOptions[tLine] of stack "X" into tProp
>
> ??? -- do stuff here
> ? end repeat
>
>
> When I walk through this code in the debugger, I see that tProperties 
> gets a list of the names of all custom properties in the "X" stack. YEA!
>
> Then I see that that list correctly gets filtered to just those that 
> begin with "options_" YEA!
>
> Then I see the in the repeat loop the variable "tLine" get the name of 
> each "options" property in succession. YEA!
>
> PROBLEM: put the customKeys[tLine] of stack "X" into tProp DOES NOT 
> fetch the value of the indicated property into tProp????
>
> I know this is simple - and I have coded it before - but I can seem to 
> find my past code in prior projects and obviously am missing something.
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

Best -
Phil Davis




From cubist at aol.com  Tue May 19 18:56:31 2020
From: cubist at aol.com (Quentin Long)
Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 22:56:31 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Changing text properties in a field via the IDE
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1589904001.8622.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
References: <mailman.1.1589904001.8622.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <1650387623.1895898.1589928991719@mail.yahoo.com>

While Bob Sneidar's function should do the job of scrubbing weird characters from text, am unsure why he felt the need to construct that massive pCustomList variable. Seems to me that it would be?simpler, and perhaps quicker, to do this instead:
function cleanASCII2 DerASCII? put "" into DerRezult
? repeat for each char CC in DerASCII? ? put?charToNum (CC) into Fred? ? if Fred > 31 and Fred < 127 then put CC after DerRezult?-- the full range of ASCII values for printable characters? end repeat? return DerRezultend cleanASCII2
The above code is not tested in any way. It's clearly not to be trusted with Unicode text,?so which might be?why Sheidar felt the need to go thru a somewhat more complicated procedure?

From cubist at aol.com  Tue May 19 19:09:38 2020
From: cubist at aol.com (Quentin Long)
Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 23:09:38 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Changing text properties in a field via the IDE
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1589904001.8622.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
References: <mailman.1.1589904001.8622.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <942717940.1897397.1589929778302@mail.yahoo.com>

Just saw an improvement in my code that *should* make it happy to work with Unicode characters?

local OkayChars = ""
function CleanASCII3 DerText? if OkayChars = "" then -- construct OkayChars string as needed? ? repeat with K1 = 32 to 126? ? ? put numToChar (K1) after OkayChars? ? end repeat? end if
? put "" into DerRezult? repeat for each char CC in DerText? ? if CC is in OkayChars then put CC after DerRezult? end repeat? return DerRezultend CleanASCII3
Again, this code has not been tested, so use with caution.

From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue May 19 19:11:06 2020
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 16:11:06 -0700
Subject: Changing text properties in a field via the IDE
In-Reply-To: <26D10112-776A-458A-ABC2-3A490E7C0504@mac.com>
References: <26D10112-776A-458A-ABC2-3A490E7C0504@mac.com>
Message-ID: <b0bc9556-070c-9263-eb0f-f0840b68dfd7@fourthworld.com>

Graham Samuel wrote:

 > Well, I am happy to be wrong, so I repeated exactly what you did, of
 > course using my own bit of styled text. It didn?t work - partly
 > because I can only select the text in the field itself in ?run? mode,
 > but I can only see the Inspector in ?edit? mode. When I switch between
 > the two modes, I can?t do your (5), because I can?t select the text in
 > the pane as you suggest.

FWIW, it's not necessary to use the Inspector, or change tool modes.  If 
the field is editable you can use the IDE's Text menu to change 
attributes in text selections directly in place, as you would with any 
word processor.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com




From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Tue May 19 19:41:52 2020
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 18:41:52 -0500
Subject: Mouse messages in scrollers
In-Reply-To: <05DE3607-935A-49B3-94BA-D6CE7DD61075@elementarysoftware.com>
References: <af95d8b9-d7b9-4da6-91ee-6920fadd6ef7@hyperactivesw.com>
 <6C9770C7-FD36-4C36-9B43-67CF9303F906@elementarysoftware.com>
 <05DE3607-935A-49B3-94BA-D6CE7DD61075@elementarysoftware.com>
Message-ID: <1722f509e00.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

I'm doing something very similar but the problem is that I don't get any 
mouse or touch messages at all, which is why I'm thinking it must be the 
settings for my ios scroller.

Whatever the defaults are for delayTouches and canCancelTouches, I think at 
least one of them needs to be changed.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On May 19, 2020 5:39:07 PM scott--- via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Of course I forgot to declare the local and global variables...
>
> global gHorizontalSwipeDistance
> global gVerticalSwipeDistance
> local lMouseStartV
> local lMouseStartH
>
>> On May 19, 2020, at 3:20 PM, scott--- via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>> I?m using this script on iOS directly inside a LC field object in order to 
>> get a "delete button? to appear. (Ya, I know that is pretty ancient UI) But 
>> it requires a swipe on iOS which is what you are after. I don?t think it is 
>> responsive enough to do some of the fancy pushes that differentiate between 
>> showing and sending things. It has been a long time since I worked on this 
>> (and I chopped out a lot of code) so it is possible that I?ve missed 
>> something. FYI: the field is a ?List? field.
>>
>>
>> -- I use these values for swiping
>> put 40 into gHorizontalSwipeDistance
>> put 15 into gVerticalSwipeDistance
>>
>> -- I'm assuming the list behavior of the field needs to be true
>> -- field script
>>
>> on touchStart pID
>>   put the mouseV into lMouseStartV
>>   put the mouseH into lMouseStartH
>>   -- some actions night need to go here
>> end touchStart	
>>
>>
>> on touchMove pTouchID, pTouchH, pTouchV
>>   -- see if there was a swipe for delete
>>   if ((abs(pTouchH - lMouseStartH) > gHorizontalSwipeDistance)) AND\
>>   (abs(pTouchV - lMouseStartV) < gVerticalSwipeDistance) then
>>      -- they swiped
>>      --  unhilite the line
>>      set the hilitedLine of fld "ScrollingList" of cd "ListOfLists" to empty
>>     -- do stuff here
>> end touchMove
>>
>>
>> on touchRelease pID
>>   -- unhilite the line
>>   set the hilitedLine of fld "ScrollingList" of cd "ListOfLists" to empty
>> end touchRelease
>>
>> ?
>> Scott Morrow
>>
>> Elementary Software
>> (Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
>> web       https://elementarysoftware.com/
>> email     scott at elementarysoftware.com
>> booth    1-800-615-0867
>> ------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>> On May 19, 2020, at 2:21 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I have a tall field inside a shorter group that uses a mobile scroller. A 
>>> behavior assigned to the group handles the scrolling and checks for swipes 
>>> by capturing mouseDown and mouseUp to determine touch locations so it can 
>>> calculate the direction of the swipe. This works on Android.
>>>
>>> On iOS I do not get mouseUp or mouseDown messages when swiping 
>>> horizontally, though I do get scrolerDidScroll when swiping vertically. But 
>>> since the group is exactly as wide as the field it encloses, it does not 
>>> scroll horizontally and so no scrollerDidScroll message is sent. I also do 
>>> not get scrollerBegin/EndDrag, touchStart or touchEnd, or any other message 
>>> I can think of to track a horizontal swipe. I do get mouseUp/Down when 
>>> tapping on the scroller but that doesn't help here.
>>>
>>> How would I detect a horizontal swipe on a non-moving scroller? The user 
>>> can't navigate without it.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>>> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode






From scott at elementarysoftware.com  Tue May 19 21:00:52 2020
From: scott at elementarysoftware.com (scott at elementarysoftware.com)
Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 18:00:52 -0700
Subject: Mouse messages in scrollers
In-Reply-To: <1722f509e00.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <af95d8b9-d7b9-4da6-91ee-6920fadd6ef7@hyperactivesw.com>
 <6C9770C7-FD36-4C36-9B43-67CF9303F906@elementarysoftware.com>
 <05DE3607-935A-49B3-94BA-D6CE7DD61075@elementarysoftware.com>
 <1722f509e00.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <B24DE993-47CF-43B4-9D68-BBA4733DDF36@elementarysoftware.com>

You have probably already looked at these but here are (some of) the scroller settings I use for the below-mentioned field:
----------------

mobileControlSet sScrollerId, "pagingEnabled", "false"

mobileControlSet sScrollerId, "decelerationRate", "normal" -- fast --iOS only

mobileControlSet sScrollerId, "canScrollToTop", "true"

mobileControlSet sScrollerId, "delayTouches", "false"

mobileControlSet sScrollerId, "canCancelTouches", ?true"

?
Scott

> On May 19, 2020, at 4:41 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I'm doing something very similar but the problem is that I don't get any mouse or touch messages at all, which is why I'm thinking it must be the settings for my ios scroller.
> 
> Whatever the defaults are for delayTouches and canCancelTouches, I think at least one of them needs to be changed.
> 
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> On May 19, 2020 5:39:07 PM scott--- via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Of course I forgot to declare the local and global variables...
>> 
>> global gHorizontalSwipeDistance
>> global gVerticalSwipeDistance
>> local lMouseStartV
>> local lMouseStartH
>> 
>>> On May 19, 2020, at 3:20 PM, scott--- via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I?m using this script on iOS directly inside a LC field object in order to get a "delete button? to appear. (Ya, I know that is pretty ancient UI) But it requires a swipe on iOS which is what you are after. I don?t think it is responsive enough to do some of the fancy pushes that differentiate between showing and sending things. It has been a long time since I worked on this (and I chopped out a lot of code) so it is possible that I?ve missed something. FYI: the field is a ?List? field.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- I use these values for swiping
>>> put 40 into gHorizontalSwipeDistance
>>> put 15 into gVerticalSwipeDistance
>>> 
>>> -- I'm assuming the list behavior of the field needs to be true
>>> -- field script
>>> 
>>> on touchStart pID
>>>  put the mouseV into lMouseStartV
>>>  put the mouseH into lMouseStartH
>>>  -- some actions night need to go here
>>> end touchStart	
>>> 
>>> 
>>> on touchMove pTouchID, pTouchH, pTouchV
>>>  -- see if there was a swipe for delete
>>>  if ((abs(pTouchH - lMouseStartH) > gHorizontalSwipeDistance)) AND\
>>>  (abs(pTouchV - lMouseStartV) < gVerticalSwipeDistance) then
>>>     -- they swiped
>>>     --  unhilite the line
>>>     set the hilitedLine of fld "ScrollingList" of cd "ListOfLists" to empty
>>>    -- do stuff here
>>> end touchMove
>>> 
>>> 
>>> on touchRelease pID
>>>  -- unhilite the line
>>>  set the hilitedLine of fld "ScrollingList" of cd "ListOfLists" to empty
>>> end touchRelease
>>> 
>>> ?
>>> Scott Morrow
>>> 
>>> Elementary Software
>>> (Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
>>> web       https://elementarysoftware.com/
>>> email     scott at elementarysoftware.com
>>> booth    1-800-615-0867
>>> ------------------------------------------------------
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On May 19, 2020, at 2:21 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I have a tall field inside a shorter group that uses a mobile scroller. A behavior assigned to the group handles the scrolling and checks for swipes by capturing mouseDown and mouseUp to determine touch locations so it can calculate the direction of the swipe. This works on Android.
>>>> 
>>>> On iOS I do not get mouseUp or mouseDown messages when swiping horizontally, though I do get scrolerDidScroll when swiping vertically. But since the group is exactly as wide as the field it encloses, it does not scroll horizontally and so no scrollerDidScroll message is sent. I also do not get scrollerBegin/EndDrag, touchStart or touchEnd, or any other message I can think of to track a horizontal swipe. I do get mouseUp/Down when tapping on the scroller but that doesn't help here.
>>>> 
>>>> How would I detect a horizontal swipe on a non-moving scroller? The user can't navigate without it.
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
>>>> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From panos.merakos at livecode.com  Wed May 20 11:41:47 2020
From: panos.merakos at livecode.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Wed, 20 May 2020 18:41:47 +0300
Subject: [ANN] Release 9.6.0 RC-2
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq8piHsJCG0RQyKUFr3_wDFUXHos7bYK5=LwoYTe=wsXew@mail.gmail.com>

Dear list members,

We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 9.6.0 RC-2.


Getting the Release
===================
You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ or via
the automatic updater.


Release Contents
================
LiveCode 9.6.0 RC-2 comes with 5 regression fixes.

For the full list of all fixes, updates and enhancements please see the
release notes:
http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/9_6_0/LiveCodeNotes-9_6_0_rc_2.pdf


Known issues
============
- The Browser widget's native layer is not shown in some Linux distros with
Cinnamon window manager.
- The use of the Browser widget is not supported on Ubuntu 18.04 64 bit LTS
yet.
- The mergSettings external still uses the UIWebView API on iOS, so
checking "mergSettings" in the Inclusions pane will cause an AppStore
rejection, since Apple no longer accepts new apps that use UIWebView.


Required Software
=================
To build iOS apps with LiveCode you must have the appropriate versions of
Xcode as follows:

  - macOS 10.13.4: Xcode 10.1 - LiveCode builds iOS apps using the iOS 12.1
SDK
  - macOS 10.14.4: Xcode 11.3.x - LiveCode builds iOS apps using the iOS
13.2 SDK
  - macOS 10.15.2: Xcode 11.4.x - LiveCode builds iOS apps using the iOS
13.4 SDK

There is a full list of working LiveCode/macOS/Xcode combinations here:
https://livecode.com/docs/9-5-0/faq/faq/

Note: Whilst we endeavour to release updated versions of LiveCode
supporting the latest Xcode/iOS SDKs as quickly as possible; we strongly
recommend disabling automatic update of Xcode or downloading the specific
version of Xcode required directly from the Apple developer portal and
installing it separately.

Important: Since the end of April 2020, Apple is only accepting new apps
built using iOS13 SDKs. Updates to existing apps can be built using iOS12
SDKs until the end of June 2020. This means that, if you wish to submit new
apps to the AppStore, you will have to be running at least macOS 10.14 in
order to be able to install the necessary version of Xcode.


Feedback
========
Please report any bugs encountered on our quality center at
http://quality.livecode.com/

We have a forum available for discussing LiveCode Builder at
http://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=93


Have fun!
The LiveCode Team

--


From klaus at major-k.de  Wed May 20 12:55:11 2020
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Wed, 20 May 2020 18:55:11 +0200
Subject: the dgIndex of me, datagrids in LC 5.02
Message-ID: <E78F64C2-52A9-41B4-BCCB-B52CAECADD1E@major-k.de>

Hi friends,

strange behavior here!?

I am working on a customers stack and have to use LC 5.02.

My customer has a big datagrid of type TABLE with a ComboBox
menu button in it. This column has of course a custom behavior.

Since "menupick" is not triggered inside of this custom behavior
I created a workaround and just call a handler in the behavior script
with the selected menuitem as a parameter.
Script of ComboBox:
---------------------------------
on menupick pChosenItem
 addmenudata pChosenItem
end menupick
---------------------------------

Works fine however I have big problems to get the DGINDEX of that column!?
So I used a MOUSEDOWN handler in the custom behavior:
-------------------------------------------------------------
local tLocalIndex

on mousedown
    ## DGMousedown or not, no difference...
    dgMouseDown
    put the dgIndex of me into tLocalIndex

    ## For testing
    put tLocalIndex
end mousedown

## More stuff here...
## ...
------------------------------------------------------------
However this does not stick, means sometimes tLocalIndex is just EMPTY
for no apparent reason and the exspected action/following scripts fails!?

Any hints very welcome!


Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
klaus at major-k.de




From klaus at major-k.de  Wed May 20 13:52:28 2020
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Wed, 20 May 2020 19:52:28 +0200
Subject: the dgIndex of me, datagrids in LC 5.02
In-Reply-To: <E78F64C2-52A9-41B4-BCCB-B52CAECADD1E@major-k.de>
References: <E78F64C2-52A9-41B4-BCCB-B52CAECADD1E@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <F003DA1D-280A-4908-AF8E-5A58BD95C13C@major-k.de>

Hi all,

looks like I could fix it.

> Am 20.05.2020 um 18:55 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi friends,
> 
> strange behavior here!?
> 
> I am working on a customers stack and have to use LC 5.02.
> 
> My customer has a big datagrid of type TABLE with a ComboBox
> menu button in it. This column has of course a custom behavior.
> 
> Since "menupick" is not triggered inside of this custom behavior
> I created a workaround and just call a handler in the behavior script
> with the selected menuitem as a parameter.
> Script of ComboBox:
> ---------------------------------

## Oviously the MOUSEDOWN in the behavir script had not been executed yet,
## so a little delay did the trick!?
> on menupick pChosenItem
  wait 1 with messages
> addmenudata pChosenItem
> end menupick
> ---------------------------------

Thank you for your comments so far! :-)


Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
klaus at major-k.de




From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Wed May 20 14:04:41 2020
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Wed, 20 May 2020 14:04:41 -0400
Subject: [ANN] Release 9.6.0 RC-2
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq8piHsJCG0RQyKUFr3_wDFUXHos7bYK5=LwoYTe=wsXew@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+JfEq8piHsJCG0RQyKUFr3_wDFUXHos7bYK5=LwoYTe=wsXew@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADCoycMYihYMYUFanDsfo8RgNGSHNcaz-3avM0TdZAbcbYF0Zw@mail.gmail.com>

if i do a build for ios, the build number is what shows in xcode as the
"version", and the "version" does not appear anywhere.

On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 11:43 AM panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Dear list members,
>
> We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 9.6.0 RC-2.
>
>
> Getting the Release
> ===================
> You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ or via
> the automatic updater.
>
>
> Release Contents
> ================
> LiveCode 9.6.0 RC-2 comes with 5 regression fixes.
>
> For the full list of all fixes, updates and enhancements please see the
> release notes:
> http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/9_6_0/LiveCodeNotes-9_6_0_rc_2.pdf
>
>
> Known issues
> ============
> - The Browser widget's native layer is not shown in some Linux distros with
> Cinnamon window manager.
> - The use of the Browser widget is not supported on Ubuntu 18.04 64 bit LTS
> yet.
> - The mergSettings external still uses the UIWebView API on iOS, so
> checking "mergSettings" in the Inclusions pane will cause an AppStore
> rejection, since Apple no longer accepts new apps that use UIWebView.
>
>
> Required Software
> =================
> To build iOS apps with LiveCode you must have the appropriate versions of
> Xcode as follows:
>
>   - macOS 10.13.4: Xcode 10.1 - LiveCode builds iOS apps using the iOS 12.1
> SDK
>   - macOS 10.14.4: Xcode 11.3.x - LiveCode builds iOS apps using the iOS
> 13.2 SDK
>   - macOS 10.15.2: Xcode 11.4.x - LiveCode builds iOS apps using the iOS
> 13.4 SDK
>
> There is a full list of working LiveCode/macOS/Xcode combinations here:
> https://livecode.com/docs/9-5-0/faq/faq/
>
> Note: Whilst we endeavour to release updated versions of LiveCode
> supporting the latest Xcode/iOS SDKs as quickly as possible; we strongly
> recommend disabling automatic update of Xcode or downloading the specific
> version of Xcode required directly from the Apple developer portal and
> installing it separately.
>
> Important: Since the end of April 2020, Apple is only accepting new apps
> built using iOS13 SDKs. Updates to existing apps can be built using iOS12
> SDKs until the end of June 2020. This means that, if you wish to submit new
> apps to the AppStore, you will have to be running at least macOS 10.14 in
> order to be able to install the necessary version of Xcode.
>
>
> Feedback
> ========
> Please report any bugs encountered on our quality center at
> http://quality.livecode.com/
>
> We have a forum available for discussing LiveCode Builder at
> http://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=93
>
>
> Have fun!
> The LiveCode Team
>
> --
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Wed May 20 15:18:28 2020
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Wed, 20 May 2020 12:18:28 -0700
Subject: Obtaining URL to latest Stable LC Server
Message-ID: <e9ccfac0-46ed-7454-20a6-14ebdd4cd7ac@fourthworld.com>

It would be helpful to have a convenient way to obtain the URL to the 
latest stable version of LC Server, to automate deployments.

I don't believe the company provides that, do they?

Without a company-maintained URL, I suppose one could write a function 
that relies on a scraper for the downloads.liveocde.com page.  Has 
anyone here done that?

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Wed May 20 15:41:00 2020
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Wed, 20 May 2020 15:41:00 -0400
Subject: lc vs macos vs xc vs ios table
Message-ID: <CADCoycPE0niE7tDsae7vainyrwhTpk1h8b9ih9Ne4=8_OY2uVw@mail.gmail.com>

do we have a table somewhere on which versions can be connected?
i just tried to rebuild one of our apps for the annual app-build-of-doom,
and discovered that:
i can't seem to build for ios 9.3.5 (some older ipads), because i need to
run xcode 11 on catalina.  on 9.3.5 the app flashes white and then crashes
out.  on newer ipads, the app runs fine.

-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."


From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Wed May 20 16:29:57 2020
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Wed, 20 May 2020 22:29:57 +0200
Subject: Obtaining URL to latest Stable LC Server
In-Reply-To: <e9ccfac0-46ed-7454-20a6-14ebdd4cd7ac@fourthworld.com>
References: <e9ccfac0-46ed-7454-20a6-14ebdd4cd7ac@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <AB791668-2CAE-452A-A447-14ACD573875C@m-r-d.de>

As LC IDE has an integrated update checker, i was sure there is a service running at Livecode website.

I?ve ran "Check for updates" from LC?s help menu while running CharlesProxy.
The update checker posts requests to "http://livecode.com/livecode/update/livecode"

It first posts some "login" credentials to authenticate
action=login&email=YOUREMAILe&uid=USERID    
I am not sure what the user id is.

Then after successful authentication the server returns some values
result=success
session=SESSIONID
uid=USERID
challenge=WHATEVERTHISIS


Then the updater posts
action=list&session=SESSIONID&token=SOMETOKEN&build=BUILDNUMBER&platform=mac%2Fx86_64&type=professional

build= contains the buildnumber of the LC version that runs the update check

platform= contains the Platform the LC IDE is running on for example  mac%2Fx86_64

Type= contains the edition  for example professional

Maybe LC is willing to help to understand whatfor the other values are or maybe they will  add a 2nd service that just returns the latest release/build number for
the posted platform and type.

Or someone is willing to manually create an online text file contains the latest release number. Of course it has to be updated every time a new version is released.


Matthias

-
Matthias Rebbe
Life Is Too Short For Boring Code

> Am 20.05.2020 um 21:18 schrieb Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> It would be helpful to have a convenient way to obtain the URL to the latest stable version of LC Server, to automate deployments.
> 
> I don't believe the company provides that, do they?
> 
> Without a company-maintained URL, I suppose one could write a function that relies on a scraper for the downloads.liveocde.com page.  Has anyone here done that?
> 
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
> ____________________________________________________________________
> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Wed May 20 16:44:33 2020
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Wed, 20 May 2020 22:44:33 +0200
Subject: Obtaining URL to latest Stable LC Server
In-Reply-To: <AB791668-2CAE-452A-A447-14ACD573875C@m-r-d.de>
References: <e9ccfac0-46ed-7454-20a6-14ebdd4cd7ac@fourthworld.com>
 <AB791668-2CAE-452A-A447-14ACD573875C@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <BC7166D1-9179-4EFD-A125-61A65606D1F0@m-r-d.de>

What i forgot,

after the 2nd post the LC server returns something like this


update.1.ver=9.5.1-gm-1
update.1.url=https://downloads.livecode.com//livecode/9_5_1/LiveCodeBusiness-9_5_1-Mac.dmg
update.1.checksum=1df5434e14122403cd75036cb2f63559
update.1.type=stable
update.1.buildnumber=15505
update.1.marketing.1.content=
update.1.marketing.1.type=html
update.2.ver=9.6.0-rc-2
update.2.url=https://downloads.livecode.com//livecode/9_6_0/LiveCodeBusiness-9_6_0_rc_2-Mac.dmg
update.2.checksum=261ff8d3de9234c71e83caacdf7dce37
update.2.type=maintainence
update.2.buildnumber=15515
update.2.marketing.1.content=
update.2.marketing.1.type=html
update.3.ver=9.6.0-dp-4
update.3.url=https://downloads.livecode.com//livecode/9_6_0/LiveCodeBusiness-9_6_0_dp_4-Mac.dmg
update.3.checksum=284fc283687d63dee25c2171e3362ded
update.3.type=development
update.3.buildnumber=15513
update.3.marketing.1.content=
update.3.marketing.1.type=html
result=success



I?ve deleted the text after content= because it would exceed the message size limit.
It is the base64encoded text that is shown in the Updater Info Field.


-
Matthias Rebbe
Life Is Too Short For Boring Code

> Am 20.05.2020 um 22:29 schrieb matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> As LC IDE has an integrated update checker, i was sure there is a service running at Livecode website.
> 
> I?ve ran "Check for updates" from LC?s help menu while running CharlesProxy.
> The update checker posts requests to "http://livecode.com/livecode/update/livecode"
> 
> It first posts some "login" credentials to authenticate
> action=login&email=YOUREMAILe&uid=USERID    
> I am not sure what the user id is.
> 
> Then after successful authentication the server returns some values
> result=success
> session=SESSIONID
> uid=USERID
> challenge=WHATEVERTHISIS
> 
> 
> Then the updater posts
> action=list&session=SESSIONID&token=SOMETOKEN&build=BUILDNUMBER&platform=mac%2Fx86_64&type=professional
> 
> build= contains the buildnumber of the LC version that runs the update check
> 
> platform= contains the Platform the LC IDE is running on for example  mac%2Fx86_64
> 
> Type= contains the edition  for example professional
> 
> Maybe LC is willing to help to understand whatfor the other values are or maybe they will  add a 2nd service that just returns the latest release/build number for
> the posted platform and type.
> 
> Or someone is willing to manually create an online text file contains the latest release number. Of course it has to be updated every time a new version is released.
> 
> 
> Matthias
> 
> -
> Matthias Rebbe
> Life Is Too Short For Boring Code
> 
>> Am 20.05.2020 um 21:18 schrieb Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> It would be helpful to have a convenient way to obtain the URL to the latest stable version of LC Server, to automate deployments.
>> 
>> I don't believe the company provides that, do they?
>> 
>> Without a company-maintained URL, I suppose one could write a function that relies on a scraper for the downloads.liveocde.com page.  Has anyone here done that?
>> 
>> -- 
>> Richard Gaskin
>> Fourth World Systems
>> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>> ____________________________________________________________________
>> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From bogdanoff at me.com  Wed May 20 18:11:53 2020
From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff)
Date: Wed, 20 May 2020 15:11:53 -0700
Subject: Linking to a LC desktop app with a URL
In-Reply-To: <b0bc9556-070c-9263-eb0f-f0840b68dfd7@fourthworld.com>
References: <26D10112-776A-458A-ABC2-3A490E7C0504@mac.com>
 <b0bc9556-070c-9263-eb0f-f0840b68dfd7@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <904814B4-2C85-47F1-9D94-B6706DC3A46F@me.com>

Hi,

Has anyone worked on the idea of accessing a LiveCode application from a web browser, such as happens with Zoom? With a URL link to a zoom.us page, the webpage shows a dialog:

?Do you want to allow this page to open ?zoom.us??? 

which then opens the local app zoom.us.

My use for this would be for enabling a user using an online LMS (learning management system) to directly access a location in my application on their local machine.

I see a few methods described online, but was wondering if anyone has experience with this.

Peter Bogdanoff
ArtsInteractive 







From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Wed May 20 20:01:24 2020
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Wed, 20 May 2020 19:01:24 -0500
Subject: Linking to a LC desktop app with a URL
In-Reply-To: <904814B4-2C85-47F1-9D94-B6706DC3A46F@me.com>
References: <26D10112-776A-458A-ABC2-3A490E7C0504@mac.com>
 <b0bc9556-070c-9263-eb0f-f0840b68dfd7@fourthworld.com>
 <904814B4-2C85-47F1-9D94-B6706DC3A46F@me.com>
Message-ID: <CAHg3tG-Da4kuDXsCvqmiQw6oNBt9HDeY6d1sbUPQDyAAnrv3Hg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 5:12 PM Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Has anyone worked on the idea of accessing a LiveCode application from a
> web browser, such as happens with Zoom? With a URL link to a zoom.us
> page, the webpage shows a dialog:
>
> ?Do you want to allow this page to open ?zoom.us???
>
> which then opens the local app zoom.us.
>
> My use for this would be for enabling a user using an online LMS (learning
> management system) to directly access a location in my application on their
> local machine.
>
> I see a few methods described online, but was wondering if anyone has
> experience with this.
>

ScreenSteps uses this technique for sending actions from our web app to our
desktop. Extensive testing has been done on macOS and Windows. The Levure
framework has the file_system helper which does most of the work for you
on Windows, macOS, and iOS so you can look at that code for guidance. You
can find the source code at the link below. I will link to specific code
examples below as well.

https://github.com/trevordevore/levure/tree/develop/framework/helpers/file_system

There are three parts that make up a working solution - registration,
processing requests, and triggering requests. Here is a description of
each. Hopefully I'm not missing anything. I coded this a long time in
Levure and haven't had to think about it much since.

1. Tell the operating system your app can handle a url protocol.

## Windows

You will need to modify the registry. Here is a link to the command that
updates the registry in the file_system helper:
https://github.com/trevordevore/levure/blob/develop/framework/helpers/file_system/file_system.livecodescript#L193

The command uses levureStandaloneFilename(), a framework function that
returns the full path to the standalone application. Just replace that with
a similar function so that you can add the full path to your app to the
registry.

This command can be called each time your application launches if you want
to make sure that the version the user just launched is the one the OS will
send a url request to.

## macOS and iOS

Add the URL protocol you want to add to your Info.plist file. It will look
something like this (taken from the ScreenSteps Info.plist file) :

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<!DOCTYPE plist PUBLIC "-//Apple//DTD PLIST 1.0//EN" "
http://www.apple.com/DTDs/PropertyList-1.0.dtd">
<plist version="1.0">
<dict>
... OTHER STUFF
  <array>
    <dict>
      <key>CFBundleURLName</key>
      <string>ScreenSteps URL</string>
      <key>CFBundleURLSchemes</key>
      <array>
        <string>x-screensteps-app</string>
        <string>screensteps</string>
        <string>screensteps-4</string>
      </array>
    </dict>
  </array>
</dict></plist>

2. Process URL requests sent by the OS to your app

## Windows
Process `relaunch` command, extract command line arguments looking for url.

`relaunch` is handled within main Levure script:
https://github.com/trevordevore/levure/blob/develop/framework/levure.livecodescript#L46

The file_system helper processes the parameters though:
https://github.com/trevordevore/levure/blob/develop/framework/levure.livecodescript#L46

## macOS
Process the appleEvent with pClass "GURL" AND pID "GURL".

https://github.com/trevordevore/levure/blob/develop/framework/helpers/file_system/file_system.livecodescript#L111

## iOS
Process `urlWakeUp`.

https://github.com/trevordevore/levure/blob/develop/framework/helpers/file_system/file_system.livecodescript#L65

3. Triggering requests

Triggering requests is as simple as using your custom protocol in an <a>
tag in your web page.

<a href="screensteps://some/information/for/desktop/to?parse=1">Click me</a>

Hopefully this helps you implement the behavior in your own app.

-- 
Trevor DeVore
ScreenSteps - https://www.screensteps.com
Levure App Framework for LiveCode - https://github.com/trevordevore/levure/
LiveCode Repos -
https://github.com/search?q=user%3Atrevordevore+topic:livecode
LiveCode Builder Repos -
https://github.com/search?q=user%3Atrevordevore+topic:livecode-builder


From paul at researchware.com  Wed May 20 21:11:08 2020
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Wed, 20 May 2020 21:11:08 -0400
Subject: AW: Drawing a blank on simple code...
In-Reply-To: <70ccbe9f-53cb-5b9d-3a1e-006ab98ef34c@pdslabs.net>
References: <e7b4d3cb-ca13-e1db-e031-185b43eb45ab@researchware.com>
 <70ccbe9f-53cb-5b9d-3a1e-006ab98ef34c@pdslabs.net>
Message-ID: <734d8c4a-42b5-ac6a-11ae-018a41a8ab59@researchware.com>

On 5/19/2020 6:46 PM, Phil Davis via use-livecode wrote:
> You're almost there Paul!
>
> On 5/19/20 2:18 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
>> I have a set of custom properties in stack "X", a lot of which begin 
>> with "options_<somename>"
>
> So I assume these are members of a customPropertySet, whose name I'll 
> call "myOptions".

Actually, the custom properties were NOT part of a customPropertySet, 
but were custom properties in the DEFAULT property set AND I apparently 
either never knew or had forgotten that you can not use array notation 
to set custom properties in the default property set since the default 
property set has no name. I could put the? customer properties array in 
an array variable and get the values that way, but to set them I had to 
construct a DO command. They all really should be moved to a custom 
property set (called "options" for example), but I don't have the time 
to change that much code.





From bogdanoff at me.com  Thu May 21 02:09:52 2020
From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff)
Date: Wed, 20 May 2020 23:09:52 -0700
Subject: Linking to a LC desktop app with a URL
In-Reply-To: <CAHg3tG-Da4kuDXsCvqmiQw6oNBt9HDeY6d1sbUPQDyAAnrv3Hg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <26D10112-776A-458A-ABC2-3A490E7C0504@mac.com>
 <b0bc9556-070c-9263-eb0f-f0840b68dfd7@fourthworld.com>
 <904814B4-2C85-47F1-9D94-B6706DC3A46F@me.com>
 <CAHg3tG-Da4kuDXsCvqmiQw6oNBt9HDeY6d1sbUPQDyAAnrv3Hg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3DDCB813-F142-4A95-B230-19D87D53DDF1@me.com>

This is great! Thank you Trevor!


> On May 20, 2020, at 5:01 PM, Trevor DeVore via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 5:12 PM Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Has anyone worked on the idea of accessing a LiveCode application from a
>> web browser, such as happens with Zoom? With a URL link to a zoom.us
>> page, the webpage shows a dialog:
>> 
>> ?Do you want to allow this page to open ?zoom.us???
>> 
>> which then opens the local app zoom.us.
>> 
>> My use for this would be for enabling a user using an online LMS (learning
>> management system) to directly access a location in my application on their
>> local machine.
>> 
>> I see a few methods described online, but was wondering if anyone has
>> experience with this.
>> 
> 
> ScreenSteps uses this technique for sending actions from our web app to our
> desktop. Extensive testing has been done on macOS and Windows. The Levure
> framework has the file_system helper which does most of the work for you
> on Windows, macOS, and iOS so you can look at that code for guidance. You
> can find the source code at the link below. I will link to specific code
> examples below as well.
> 
> https://github.com/trevordevore/levure/tree/develop/framework/helpers/file_system
> 
> There are three parts that make up a working solution - registration,
> processing requests, and triggering requests. Here is a description of
> each. Hopefully I'm not missing anything. I coded this a long time in
> Levure and haven't had to think about it much since.
> 
> 1. Tell the operating system your app can handle a url protocol.
> 
> ## Windows
> 
> You will need to modify the registry. Here is a link to the command that
> updates the registry in the file_system helper:
> https://github.com/trevordevore/levure/blob/develop/framework/helpers/file_system/file_system.livecodescript#L193
> 
> The command uses levureStandaloneFilename(), a framework function that
> returns the full path to the standalone application. Just replace that with
> a similar function so that you can add the full path to your app to the
> registry.
> 
> This command can be called each time your application launches if you want
> to make sure that the version the user just launched is the one the OS will
> send a url request to.
> 
> ## macOS and iOS
> 
> Add the URL protocol you want to add to your Info.plist file. It will look
> something like this (taken from the ScreenSteps Info.plist file) :
> 
> <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
> <!DOCTYPE plist PUBLIC "-//Apple//DTD PLIST 1.0//EN" "
> http://www.apple.com/DTDs/PropertyList-1.0.dtd">
> <plist version="1.0">
> <dict>
> ... OTHER STUFF
>  <array>
>    <dict>
>      <key>CFBundleURLName</key>
>      <string>ScreenSteps URL</string>
>      <key>CFBundleURLSchemes</key>
>      <array>
>        <string>x-screensteps-app</string>
>        <string>screensteps</string>
>        <string>screensteps-4</string>
>      </array>
>    </dict>
>  </array>
> </dict></plist>
> 
> 2. Process URL requests sent by the OS to your app
> 
> ## Windows
> Process `relaunch` command, extract command line arguments looking for url.
> 
> `relaunch` is handled within main Levure script:
> https://github.com/trevordevore/levure/blob/develop/framework/levure.livecodescript#L46
> 
> The file_system helper processes the parameters though:
> https://github.com/trevordevore/levure/blob/develop/framework/levure.livecodescript#L46
> 
> ## macOS
> Process the appleEvent with pClass "GURL" AND pID "GURL".
> 
> https://github.com/trevordevore/levure/blob/develop/framework/helpers/file_system/file_system.livecodescript#L111
> 
> ## iOS
> Process `urlWakeUp`.
> 
> https://github.com/trevordevore/levure/blob/develop/framework/helpers/file_system/file_system.livecodescript#L65
> 
> 3. Triggering requests
> 
> Triggering requests is as simple as using your custom protocol in an <a>
> tag in your web page.
> 
> <a href="screensteps://some/information/for/desktop/to?parse=1">Click me</a>
> 
> Hopefully this helps you implement the behavior in your own app.
> 
> -- 
> Trevor DeVore
> ScreenSteps - https://www.screensteps.com
> Levure App Framework for LiveCode - https://github.com/trevordevore/levure/
> LiveCode Repos -
> https://github.com/search?q=user%3Atrevordevore+topic:livecode
> LiveCode Builder Repos -
> https://github.com/search?q=user%3Atrevordevore+topic:livecode-builder
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From david.bovill at gmail.com  Thu May 21 02:51:34 2020
From: david.bovill at gmail.com (David Bovill)
Date: Thu, 21 May 2020 07:51:34 +0100
Subject: Linking to a LC desktop app with a URL
In-Reply-To: <3DDCB813-F142-4A95-B230-19D87D53DDF1@me.com>
References: <26D10112-776A-458A-ABC2-3A490E7C0504@mac.com>
 <b0bc9556-070c-9263-eb0f-f0840b68dfd7@fourthworld.com>
 <904814B4-2C85-47F1-9D94-B6706DC3A46F@me.com>
 <CAHg3tG-Da4kuDXsCvqmiQw6oNBt9HDeY6d1sbUPQDyAAnrv3Hg@mail.gmail.com>
 <3DDCB813-F142-4A95-B230-19D87D53DDF1@me.com>
Message-ID: <25c64952-da0a-4b6d-8261-edc00729e953@Spark>

Yes thanks Trevor. I must some time soon migrate to using Levure - is there an easy Start here introduction for a new project?
On 21 May 2020, 07:10 +0100, Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
> This is great! Thank you Trevor!
>
>
> > On May 20, 2020, at 5:01 PM, Trevor DeVore via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 5:12 PM Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Has anyone worked on the idea of accessing a LiveCode application from a
> > > web browser, such as happens with Zoom? With a URL link to a zoom.us
> > > page, the webpage shows a dialog:
> > >
> > > ?Do you want to allow this page to open ?zoom.us???
> > >
> > > which then opens the local app zoom.us.
> > >
> > > My use for this would be for enabling a user using an online LMS (learning
> > > management system) to directly access a location in my application on their
> > > local machine.
> > >
> > > I see a few methods described online, but was wondering if anyone has
> > > experience with this.
> > >
> >
> > ScreenSteps uses this technique for sending actions from our web app to our
> > desktop. Extensive testing has been done on macOS and Windows. The Levure
> > framework has the file_system helper which does most of the work for you
> > on Windows, macOS, and iOS so you can look at that code for guidance. You
> > can find the source code at the link below. I will link to specific code
> > examples below as well.
> >
> > https://github.com/trevordevore/levure/tree/develop/framework/helpers/file_system
> >
> > There are three parts that make up a working solution - registration,
> > processing requests, and triggering requests. Here is a description of
> > each. Hopefully I'm not missing anything. I coded this a long time in
> > Levure and haven't had to think about it much since.
> >
> > 1. Tell the operating system your app can handle a url protocol.
> >
> > ## Windows
> >
> > You will need to modify the registry. Here is a link to the command that
> > updates the registry in the file_system helper:
> > https://github.com/trevordevore/levure/blob/develop/framework/helpers/file_system/file_system.livecodescript#L193
> >
> > The command uses levureStandaloneFilename(), a framework function that
> > returns the full path to the standalone application. Just replace that with
> > a similar function so that you can add the full path to your app to the
> > registry.
> >
> > This command can be called each time your application launches if you want
> > to make sure that the version the user just launched is the one the OS will
> > send a url request to.
> >
> > ## macOS and iOS
> >
> > Add the URL protocol you want to add to your Info.plist file. It will look
> > something like this (taken from the ScreenSteps Info.plist file) :
> >
> > <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
> > <!DOCTYPE plist PUBLIC "-//Apple//DTD PLIST 1.0//EN" "
> > http://www.apple.com/DTDs/PropertyList-1.0.dtd">
> > <plist version="1.0">
> > <dict>
> > ... OTHER STUFF
> > <array>
> > <dict>
> > <key>CFBundleURLName</key>
> > <string>ScreenSteps URL</string>
> > <key>CFBundleURLSchemes</key>
> > <array>
> > <string>x-screensteps-app</string>
> > <string>screensteps</string>
> > <string>screensteps-4</string>
> > </array>
> > </dict>
> > </array>
> > </dict></plist>
> >
> > 2. Process URL requests sent by the OS to your app
> >
> > ## Windows
> > Process `relaunch` command, extract command line arguments looking for url.
> >
> > `relaunch` is handled within main Levure script:
> > https://github.com/trevordevore/levure/blob/develop/framework/levure.livecodescript#L46
> >
> > The file_system helper processes the parameters though:
> > https://github.com/trevordevore/levure/blob/develop/framework/levure.livecodescript#L46
> >
> > ## macOS
> > Process the appleEvent with pClass "GURL" AND pID "GURL".
> >
> > https://github.com/trevordevore/levure/blob/develop/framework/helpers/file_system/file_system.livecodescript#L111
> >
> > ## iOS
> > Process `urlWakeUp`.
> >
> > https://github.com/trevordevore/levure/blob/develop/framework/helpers/file_system/file_system.livecodescript#L65
> >
> > 3. Triggering requests
> >
> > Triggering requests is as simple as using your custom protocol in an <a>
> > tag in your web page.
> >
> > <a href="screensteps://some/information/for/desktop/to?parse=1">Click me</a>
> >
> > Hopefully this helps you implement the behavior in your own app.
> >
> > --
> > Trevor DeVore
> > ScreenSteps - https://www.screensteps.com
> > Levure App Framework for LiveCode - https://github.com/trevordevore/levure/
> > LiveCode Repos -
> > https://github.com/search?q=user%3Atrevordevore+topic:livecode
> > LiveCode Builder Repos -
> > https://github.com/search?q=user%3Atrevordevore+topic:livecode-builder
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From merakosp at gmail.com  Thu May 21 03:47:11 2020
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Thu, 21 May 2020 10:47:11 +0300
Subject: [ANN] Release 9.6.0 RC-2
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycMYihYMYUFanDsfo8RgNGSHNcaz-3avM0TdZAbcbYF0Zw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+JfEq8piHsJCG0RQyKUFr3_wDFUXHos7bYK5=LwoYTe=wsXew@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADCoycMYihYMYUFanDsfo8RgNGSHNcaz-3avM0TdZAbcbYF0Zw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq_h9SRBLJgZx8AVKVUM3XYQC_M95M9cKd6c_v2xwX+m-Q@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Mike,

What you see is the expected behavior, see
https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19971 for more details.

Kind regards,
Panos
--

On Wed, 20 May 2020 at 21:06, Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> if i do a build for ios, the build number is what shows in xcode as the
> "version", and the "version" does not appear anywhere.
>
> On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 11:43 AM panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > Dear list members,
> >
> > We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 9.6.0 RC-2.
> >
> >
> > Getting the Release
> > ===================
> > You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ or
> via
> > the automatic updater.
> >
> >
> > Release Contents
> > ================
> > LiveCode 9.6.0 RC-2 comes with 5 regression fixes.
> >
> > For the full list of all fixes, updates and enhancements please see the
> > release notes:
> >
> http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/9_6_0/LiveCodeNotes-9_6_0_rc_2.pdf
> >
> >
> > Known issues
> > ============
> > - The Browser widget's native layer is not shown in some Linux distros
> with
> > Cinnamon window manager.
> > - The use of the Browser widget is not supported on Ubuntu 18.04 64 bit
> LTS
> > yet.
> > - The mergSettings external still uses the UIWebView API on iOS, so
> > checking "mergSettings" in the Inclusions pane will cause an AppStore
> > rejection, since Apple no longer accepts new apps that use UIWebView.
> >
> >
> > Required Software
> > =================
> > To build iOS apps with LiveCode you must have the appropriate versions of
> > Xcode as follows:
> >
> >   - macOS 10.13.4: Xcode 10.1 - LiveCode builds iOS apps using the iOS
> 12.1
> > SDK
> >   - macOS 10.14.4: Xcode 11.3.x - LiveCode builds iOS apps using the iOS
> > 13.2 SDK
> >   - macOS 10.15.2: Xcode 11.4.x - LiveCode builds iOS apps using the iOS
> > 13.4 SDK
> >
> > There is a full list of working LiveCode/macOS/Xcode combinations here:
> > https://livecode.com/docs/9-5-0/faq/faq/
> >
> > Note: Whilst we endeavour to release updated versions of LiveCode
> > supporting the latest Xcode/iOS SDKs as quickly as possible; we strongly
> > recommend disabling automatic update of Xcode or downloading the specific
> > version of Xcode required directly from the Apple developer portal and
> > installing it separately.
> >
> > Important: Since the end of April 2020, Apple is only accepting new apps
> > built using iOS13 SDKs. Updates to existing apps can be built using iOS12
> > SDKs until the end of June 2020. This means that, if you wish to submit
> new
> > apps to the AppStore, you will have to be running at least macOS 10.14 in
> > order to be able to install the necessary version of Xcode.
> >
> >
> > Feedback
> > ========
> > Please report any bugs encountered on our quality center at
> > http://quality.livecode.com/
> >
> > We have a forum available for discussing LiveCode Builder at
> > http://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=93
> >
> >
> > Have fun!
> > The LiveCode Team
> >
> > --
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
>
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>    and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From jeejeestudio at gmail.com  Thu May 21 09:00:59 2020
From: jeejeestudio at gmail.com (JeeJeeStudio)
Date: Thu, 21 May 2020 15:00:59 +0200
Subject: Obtaining URL to latest Stable LC Server
In-Reply-To: <e9ccfac0-46ed-7454-20a6-14ebdd4cd7ac@fourthworld.com>
References: <e9ccfac0-46ed-7454-20a6-14ebdd4cd7ac@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <1a0f7108-c396-cc95-44d6-81688a663a45@gmail.com>

that's not the same version as the one you can download from 
livecode.com when you log-in. Community vs commercial

Op 20-5-2020 om 21:18 schreef Richard Gaskin via use-livecode:
> It would be helpful to have a convenient way to obtain the URL to the 
> latest stable version of LC Server, to automate deployments.
>
> I don't believe the company provides that, do they?
>
> Without a company-maintained URL, I suppose one could write a function 
> that relies on a scraper for the downloads.liveocde.com page.? Has 
> anyone here done that?
>



From lists at mangomultimedia.com  Thu May 21 10:27:22 2020
From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore)
Date: Thu, 21 May 2020 09:27:22 -0500
Subject: Linking to a LC desktop app with a URL
In-Reply-To: <25c64952-da0a-4b6d-8261-edc00729e953@Spark>
References: <26D10112-776A-458A-ABC2-3A490E7C0504@mac.com>
 <b0bc9556-070c-9263-eb0f-f0840b68dfd7@fourthworld.com>
 <904814B4-2C85-47F1-9D94-B6706DC3A46F@me.com>
 <CAHg3tG-Da4kuDXsCvqmiQw6oNBt9HDeY6d1sbUPQDyAAnrv3Hg@mail.gmail.com>
 <3DDCB813-F142-4A95-B230-19D87D53DDF1@me.com>
 <25c64952-da0a-4b6d-8261-edc00729e953@Spark>
Message-ID: <CAHg3tG-UXNATGBkAm19przGEJwag8gJ=T6WS7WXwC7PwcUuU8g@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 1:52 AM David Bovill via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Yes thanks Trevor. I must some time soon migrate to using Levure - is
> there an easy Start here introduction for a new project?
> On 21 May 2020, 07:10 +0100, Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
> > This is great! Thank you Trevor!
>

You're welcome guys.

David - the wiki has a section on "Creating an Application". Hopefully it
is easy enough.

https://github.com/trevordevore/levure/wiki

-- 
Trevor DeVore
ScreenSteps - https://www.screensteps.com
Levure App Framework for LiveCode - https://github.com/trevordevore/levure/
LiveCode Repos -
https://github.com/search?q=user%3Atrevordevore+topic:livecode
LiveCode Builder Repos -
https://github.com/search?q=user%3Atrevordevore+topic:livecode-builder


From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu May 21 12:21:25 2020
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 21 May 2020 09:21:25 -0700
Subject: Obtaining URL to latest Stable LC Server
In-Reply-To: <1a0f7108-c396-cc95-44d6-81688a663a45@gmail.com>
References: <1a0f7108-c396-cc95-44d6-81688a663a45@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <eb284b5c-03be-a75e-63b6-806beb83ec34@fourthworld.com>

JeeJeeStudio wrote:

 > Op 20-5-2020 om 21:18 schreef Richard Gaskin via use-livecode:
 >> It would be helpful to have a convenient way to obtain the URL to the
 >> latest stable version of LC Server, to automate deployments.
 >>
 >> I don't believe the company provides that, do they?
 >>
 >> Without a company-maintained URL, I suppose one could write a
 >> function that relies on a scraper for the downloads.liveocde.com
 >> page.  Has anyone here done that?
 >
 >
 > that's not the same version as the one you can download from
 > livecode.com when you log-in. Community vs commercial

True, but my focus on the Community Edition is based on two considerations:

1. The proprietary edition requires an account-specific licensing key
    which AFAIK precludes external automation.

2. The proprietary edition is very rarely needed.

Most modern server solutions are open source, and many use GPL 
specifically, including not only LiveCode but also MySQL, MariaDB, 
Neo4j, MediaWiki, NextCloud, Wordpress, Drupal, Joomla, Git, Ansible, 
and a good many more.

The GPL being a distribution license, proprietary edition of LiveCode 
Server would be needed only in those cases where the developer is 
distributing a server solution for other devs making server solutions, 
and where they want their own code to be under proprietary license. I 
can imagine such a specific use may case exist in our community, but I 
haven't yet come across it.

For services accessed over a network, the code remains on the server and 
is not distributed to the user. So open source, even GPL, is a very good 
fit for web sites, apps, and other network-delivered services.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com




From jeejeestudio at gmail.com  Thu May 21 12:33:00 2020
From: jeejeestudio at gmail.com (JeeJeeStudio)
Date: Thu, 21 May 2020 18:33:00 +0200
Subject: Obtaining URL to latest Stable LC Server
In-Reply-To: <eb284b5c-03be-a75e-63b6-806beb83ec34@fourthworld.com>
References: <1a0f7108-c396-cc95-44d6-81688a663a45@gmail.com>
 <eb284b5c-03be-a75e-63b6-806beb83ec34@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <3d6514f2-d67c-5b71-8e25-4faa72deb38d@gmail.com>

Yes, true.


Does the commercial version not contain options comparable like LC Indy 
e.g. Encrypting or otherwise?

Thanks for your answer.


Op 21-5-2020 om 18:21 schreef Richard Gaskin via use-livecode:
> JeeJeeStudio wrote:
>
> > Op 20-5-2020 om 21:18 schreef Richard Gaskin via use-livecode:
> >> It would be helpful to have a convenient way to obtain the URL to the
> >> latest stable version of LC Server, to automate deployments.
> >>
> >> I don't believe the company provides that, do they?
> >>
> >> Without a company-maintained URL, I suppose one could write a
> >> function that relies on a scraper for the downloads.liveocde.com
> >> page.? Has anyone here done that?
> >
> >
> > that's not the same version as the one you can download from
> > livecode.com when you log-in. Community vs commercial
>
> True, but my focus on the Community Edition is based on two 
> considerations:
>
> 1. The proprietary edition requires an account-specific licensing key
> ?? which AFAIK precludes external automation.
>
> 2. The proprietary edition is very rarely needed.
>
> Most modern server solutions are open source, and many use GPL 
> specifically, including not only LiveCode but also MySQL, MariaDB, 
> Neo4j, MediaWiki, NextCloud, Wordpress, Drupal, Joomla, Git, Ansible, 
> and a good many more.
>
> The GPL being a distribution license, proprietary edition of LiveCode 
> Server would be needed only in those cases where the developer is 
> distributing a server solution for other devs making server solutions, 
> and where they want their own code to be under proprietary license. I 
> can imagine such a specific use may case exist in our community, but I 
> haven't yet come across it.
>
> For services accessed over a network, the code remains on the server 
> and is not distributed to the user. So open source, even GPL, is a 
> very good fit for web sites, apps, and other network-delivered services.
>



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu May 21 13:01:59 2020
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 21 May 2020 10:01:59 -0700
Subject: Obtaining URL to latest Stable LC Server
In-Reply-To: <3d6514f2-d67c-5b71-8e25-4faa72deb38d@gmail.com>
References: <3d6514f2-d67c-5b71-8e25-4faa72deb38d@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8aefa703-2849-ae20-a63a-ae3e429f48fe@fourthworld.com>

The encrypt and decrypt commands are part of the core language common to 
all editions, along with hashing with messageDigest and the older 
md5Digest and sha1Digest functions.

The one form of encryption proprietary editions enjoy is with stacks, to 
protect scripts. For the most part this is irrelevant to any open source 
use since of course the whole point is sharing code.

But there are at least two use cases where stack encryption might be 
useful with open source projects:

- Preventing code modification: If you had a system that uses unlocked 
stacks downloaded from multiple sources, it's possible that one script 
downloaded from  nefarious source could modify another.

- Protecting secrets: Other scripting languages (PHP, Python, Ruby, 
etc.) are plain text files, so secrets like DB passwords need to be 
handled with care.  With LC it would be possible to put that info in an 
encrypted stack for an additional level of protection that would give LC 
a competitive advantage no plain-text scripting language could match.

That said, both are edge cases and neither prevents us from getting 
serious work done with what we have today.

In the first case, if one dared to make a system that ran stacks from 
unknown sources, code modification would be the least concern compared 
with all the other ways script behavior can be modified at runtime 
within a single LC instance (frontScripts, backScripts, etc.).  In a 
server context it's almost completely irrelevant because that's the last 
place we'd want to put code from unknown sources. :)

And the second case puts even unlocked LC stacks at no disadvantage 
compared to pretty much any other language everyone else everyone uses. 
If traditional ways of managing secrets are good enough for healthcare 
and banking, they're probably good enough for the types of web services 
the rest of us make.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems



JeeJeeStudio wrote:
> 
> Yes, true.
> 
> Does the commercial version not contain options comparable like LC Indy 
> e.g. Encrypting or otherwise?
> 
> Thanks for your answer.
> 
> 
> Op 21-5-2020 om 18:21 schreef Richard Gaskin via use-livecode:
>> JeeJeeStudio wrote:
>>
>> > Op 20-5-2020 om 21:18 schreef Richard Gaskin via use-livecode:
>> >> It would be helpful to have a convenient way to obtain the URL to the
>> >> latest stable version of LC Server, to automate deployments.
>> >>
>> >> I don't believe the company provides that, do they?
>> >>
>> >> Without a company-maintained URL, I suppose one could write a
>> >> function that relies on a scraper for the downloads.liveocde.com
>> >> page.  Has anyone here done that?
>> >
>> >
>> > that's not the same version as the one you can download from
>> > livecode.com when you log-in. Community vs commercial
>>
>> True, but my focus on the Community Edition is based on two 
>> considerations:
>>
>> 1. The proprietary edition requires an account-specific licensing key
>>    which AFAIK precludes external automation.
>>
>> 2. The proprietary edition is very rarely needed.
>>
>> Most modern server solutions are open source, and many use GPL 
>> specifically, including not only LiveCode but also MySQL, MariaDB, 
>> Neo4j, MediaWiki, NextCloud, Wordpress, Drupal, Joomla, Git, Ansible, 
>> and a good many more.
>>
>> The GPL being a distribution license, proprietary edition of LiveCode 
>> Server would be needed only in those cases where the developer is 
>> distributing a server solution for other devs making server solutions, 
>> and where they want their own code to be under proprietary license. I 
>> can imagine such a specific use may case exist in our community, but I 
>> haven't yet come across it.
>>
>> For services accessed over a network, the code remains on the server 
>> and is not distributed to the user. So open source, even GPL, is a 
>> very good fit for web sites, apps, and other network-delivered services.
>>




From jeejeestudio at gmail.com  Thu May 21 13:16:41 2020
From: jeejeestudio at gmail.com (JeeJeeStudio)
Date: Thu, 21 May 2020 19:16:41 +0200
Subject: Obtaining URL to latest Stable LC Server
In-Reply-To: <8aefa703-2849-ae20-a63a-ae3e429f48fe@fourthworld.com>
References: <3d6514f2-d67c-5b71-8e25-4faa72deb38d@gmail.com>
 <8aefa703-2849-ae20-a63a-ae3e429f48fe@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <bcd91aa6-9187-be2e-e4f2-71472e35befa@gmail.com>

Thanks for your extensive explanation Richard.


Op 21-5-2020 om 19:01 schreef Richard Gaskin via use-livecode:
> The encrypt and decrypt commands are part of the core language common 
> to all editions, along with hashing with messageDigest and the older 
> md5Digest and sha1Digest functions.
>
> The one form of encryption proprietary editions enjoy is with stacks, 
> to protect scripts. For the most part this is irrelevant to any open 
> source use since of course the whole point is sharing code.
>
> But there are at least two use cases where stack encryption might be 
> useful with open source projects:
>
> - Preventing code modification: If you had a system that uses unlocked 
> stacks downloaded from multiple sources, it's possible that one script 
> downloaded from? nefarious source could modify another.
>
> - Protecting secrets: Other scripting languages (PHP, Python, Ruby, 
> etc.) are plain text files, so secrets like DB passwords need to be 
> handled with care.? With LC it would be possible to put that info in 
> an encrypted stack for an additional level of protection that would 
> give LC a competitive advantage no plain-text scripting language could 
> match.
>
> That said, both are edge cases and neither prevents us from getting 
> serious work done with what we have today.
>
> In the first case, if one dared to make a system that ran stacks from 
> unknown sources, code modification would be the least concern compared 
> with all the other ways script behavior can be modified at runtime 
> within a single LC instance (frontScripts, backScripts, etc.).? In a 
> server context it's almost completely irrelevant because that's the 
> last place we'd want to put code from unknown sources. :)
>
> And the second case puts even unlocked LC stacks at no disadvantage 
> compared to pretty much any other language everyone else everyone 
> uses. If traditional ways of managing secrets are good enough for 
> healthcare and banking, they're probably good enough for the types of 
> web services the rest of us make.
>



From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Thu May 21 13:19:50 2020
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Thu, 21 May 2020 13:19:50 -0400
Subject: Obtaining URL to latest Stable LC Server
In-Reply-To: <eb284b5c-03be-a75e-63b6-806beb83ec34@fourthworld.com>
References: <1a0f7108-c396-cc95-44d6-81688a663a45@gmail.com>
 <eb284b5c-03be-a75e-63b6-806beb83ec34@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <003b01d62f94$0b952f80$22bf8e80$@net>

I use the commercial server so I can use password encrypted stacks.
I have an app that the customer required encryption of all data and source
code. The library stack is in the iOS app/APK is also used on the backend
server. I don't want to have to strip the passcode from the stack when
release updates to the app/LC server. Besides the customer asked that all
source code be encrypted in the app or on the sever so I complied.

Edge case... probably... But LC stack encryption made the customer happy so
that made me happy.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net


-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf
Of Richard Gaskin via use-livecode
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2020 12:21 PM
To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Cc: Richard Gaskin
Subject: Re: Obtaining URL to latest Stable LC Server

JeeJeeStudio wrote:

 > Op 20-5-2020 om 21:18 schreef Richard Gaskin via use-livecode:
 >> It would be helpful to have a convenient way to obtain the URL to the
>> latest stable version of LC Server, to automate deployments.
 >>
 >> I don't believe the company provides that, do they?
 >>
 >> Without a company-maintained URL, I suppose one could write a  >>
function that relies on a scraper for the downloads.liveocde.com  >> page.
Has anyone here done that?
 >
 >
 > that's not the same version as the one you can download from  >
livecode.com when you log-in. Community vs commercial

True, but my focus on the Community Edition is based on two considerations:

1. The proprietary edition requires an account-specific licensing key
    which AFAIK precludes external automation.

2. The proprietary edition is very rarely needed.

Most modern server solutions are open source, and many use GPL specifically,
including not only LiveCode but also MySQL, MariaDB, Neo4j, MediaWiki,
NextCloud, Wordpress, Drupal, Joomla, Git, Ansible, and a good many more.

The GPL being a distribution license, proprietary edition of LiveCode Server
would be needed only in those cases where the developer is distributing a
server solution for other devs making server solutions, and where they want
their own code to be under proprietary license. I can imagine such a
specific use may case exist in our community, but I haven't yet come across
it.

For services accessed over a network, the code remains on the server and is
not distributed to the user. So open source, even GPL, is a very good fit
for web sites, apps, and other network-delivered services.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com


_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu May 21 13:44:38 2020
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 21 May 2020 10:44:38 -0700
Subject: Obtaining URL to latest Stable LC Server
In-Reply-To: <003b01d62f94$0b952f80$22bf8e80$@net>
References: <003b01d62f94$0b952f80$22bf8e80$@net>
Message-ID: <3163e470-4702-cf91-d94c-001c9f40ced7@fourthworld.com>

Ralph DiMola wrote:

> I use the commercial server so I can use password encrypted stacks.
> I have an app that the customer required encryption of all data and source
> code. The library stack is in the iOS app/APK is also used on the backend
> server. I don't want to have to strip the passcode from the stack when
> release updates to the app/LC server. Besides the customer asked that all
> source code be encrypted in the app or on the sever so I complied.
> 
> Edge case... probably... But LC stack encryption made the customer happy so
> that made me happy.

I like it when clients write requirements in a way that rule out pretty 
much everything else but LiveCode.

The more popular server languages - PHP, Python, Ruby, Perl, etc. - all 
use plain text, so with a requirement for source encryption every 
industry-standard option is off the table.

Now if only we could get that requirement to catch on... :)

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu May 21 16:22:26 2020
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 21 May 2020 15:22:26 -0500
Subject: Mouse messages in scrollers
In-Reply-To: <B24DE993-47CF-43B4-9D68-BBA4733DDF36@elementarysoftware.com>
References: <af95d8b9-d7b9-4da6-91ee-6920fadd6ef7@hyperactivesw.com>
 <6C9770C7-FD36-4C36-9B43-67CF9303F906@elementarysoftware.com>
 <05DE3607-935A-49B3-94BA-D6CE7DD61075@elementarysoftware.com>
 <1722f509e00.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <B24DE993-47CF-43B4-9D68-BBA4733DDF36@elementarysoftware.com>
Message-ID: <2992b394-31b3-fec9-6689-c71818953b7e@hyperactivesw.com>

It was "delayTouches" mostly. Default is true, I had to set it to false. I also set 
canCancelTouches to false but didn't test how necessary that was. Default for that is also true.

This allowed messages to pass through to LC, but you had to very deliberately swipe, holding 
down a moment so the mouseDown would fire. Brian Milby came up with a faster solution using 
something like Jim MacConnell's suggestion -- make the contentRect wider than the group so that 
a horizontal swipe triggers scrollerDidScroll. Lock direction to vertical to prevent wiggle. 
That proved to be a the solution for a more natural swipe.

You have to branch for Android because it doesn't have a lockDirection property; for that OS 
keep the contentRect the same width as the group. Mouse messages pass through to LC 
automatically, which is good because the above two settings don't exist on Android.

Swiping is such a normal behavior on mobile, I'd like to see an easier method in LC to 
accomodate all this.


On 5/19/20 8:00 PM, scott--- via use-livecode wrote:
> You have probably already looked at these but here are (some of) the scroller settings I use for the below-mentioned field:
> ----------------
> 
> mobileControlSet sScrollerId, "pagingEnabled", "false"
> 
> mobileControlSet sScrollerId, "decelerationRate", "normal" -- fast --iOS only
> 
> mobileControlSet sScrollerId, "canScrollToTop", "true"
> 
> mobileControlSet sScrollerId, "delayTouches", "false"
> 
> mobileControlSet sScrollerId, "canCancelTouches", ?true"


-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com




From jeejeestudio at gmail.com  Thu May 21 16:37:20 2020
From: jeejeestudio at gmail.com (JeeJeeStudio)
Date: Thu, 21 May 2020 22:37:20 +0200
Subject: Obtaining URL to latest Stable LC Server
In-Reply-To: <3163e470-4702-cf91-d94c-001c9f40ced7@fourthworld.com>
References: <003b01d62f94$0b952f80$22bf8e80$@net>
 <3163e470-4702-cf91-d94c-001c9f40ced7@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <59b01e64-1632-b8c1-310b-09dd4b320892@gmail.com>

So this is a good thing where we LC users have an advantage.

Op 21-5-2020 om 19:44 schreef Richard Gaskin via use-livecode:
> Ralph DiMola wrote:
>
>> I use the commercial server so I can use password encrypted stacks.
>> I have an app that the customer required encryption of all data and 
>> source
>> code. The library stack is in the iOS app/APK is also used on the 
>> backend
>> server. I don't want to have to strip the passcode from the stack when
>> release updates to the app/LC server. Besides the customer asked that 
>> all
>> source code be encrypted in the app or on the sever so I complied.
>>
>> Edge case... probably... But LC stack encryption made the customer 
>> happy so
>> that made me happy.
>
> I like it when clients write requirements in a way that rule out 
> pretty much everything else but LiveCode.
>
> The more popular server languages - PHP, Python, Ruby, Perl, etc. - 
> all use plain text, so with a requirement for source encryption every 
> industry-standard option is off the table.
>
> Now if only we could get that requirement to catch on... :)
>



From scott at elementarysoftware.com  Thu May 21 22:08:41 2020
From: scott at elementarysoftware.com (scott at elementarysoftware.com)
Date: Thu, 21 May 2020 19:08:41 -0700
Subject: Mouse messages in scrollers
In-Reply-To: <2992b394-31b3-fec9-6689-c71818953b7e@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <af95d8b9-d7b9-4da6-91ee-6920fadd6ef7@hyperactivesw.com>
 <6C9770C7-FD36-4C36-9B43-67CF9303F906@elementarysoftware.com>
 <05DE3607-935A-49B3-94BA-D6CE7DD61075@elementarysoftware.com>
 <1722f509e00.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>
 <B24DE993-47CF-43B4-9D68-BBA4733DDF36@elementarysoftware.com>
 <2992b394-31b3-fec9-6689-c71818953b7e@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <6B4F7835-8997-47D4-B71D-EB9235920B83@elementarysoftware.com>

Thank you for the thorough explanation of what you are doing and why. I will give the method that triggers ?scrollerDidScrol? a try.

--
Scott

> On May 21, 2020, at 1:22 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> It was "delayTouches" mostly. Default is true, I had to set it to false. I also set canCancelTouches to false but didn't test how necessary that was. Default for that is also true.
> 
> This allowed messages to pass through to LC, but you had to very deliberately swipe, holding down a moment so the mouseDown would fire. Brian Milby came up with a faster solution using something like Jim MacConnell's suggestion -- make the contentRect wider than the group so that a horizontal swipe triggers scrollerDidScroll. Lock direction to vertical to prevent wiggle. That proved to be a the solution for a more natural swipe.
> 
> You have to branch for Android because it doesn't have a lockDirection property; for that OS keep the contentRect the same width as the group. Mouse messages pass through to LC automatically, which is good because the above two settings don't exist on Android.
> 
> Swiping is such a normal behavior on mobile, I'd like to see an easier method in LC to accomodate all this.
> 
> 
> On 5/19/20 8:00 PM, scott--- via use-livecode wrote:
>> You have probably already looked at these but here are (some of) the scroller settings I use for the below-mentioned field:
>> ----------------
>> mobileControlSet sScrollerId, "pagingEnabled", "false"
>> mobileControlSet sScrollerId, "decelerationRate", "normal" -- fast --iOS only
>> mobileControlSet sScrollerId, "canScrollToTop", "true"
>> mobileControlSet sScrollerId, "delayTouches", "false"
>> mobileControlSet sScrollerId, "canCancelTouches", ?true"
> 
> 
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com





From ahsoftware at sonic.net  Thu May 21 23:30:46 2020
From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Thu, 21 May 2020 20:30:46 -0700
Subject: ANN: glx2 script editor 4.1
Message-ID: <70ef12b6-7901-53c8-035f-e8826e556391@sonic.net>

I have moved the repository from bitbucket to github because reasons.

This is the latest build. It's now at glx2ScriptEditor version 4.1.
Release notes and a documentation wiki are on the github site.
It's had a pretty rigorous shakedown cruise lately on osx, windows, and 
linux and is now the editor I use on a daily basis.

https://github.com/mwieder/glx2ScriptEditor

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From livfoss at mac.com  Fri May 22 04:51:16 2020
From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel)
Date: Fri, 22 May 2020 10:51:16 +0200
Subject: iOS Provisioning Profile issue
Message-ID: <900BE213-7741-442E-BCC6-79B85ECF2051@mac.com>

I?ve been using XCode to load an app into my iPhone for some time now, but today using LC 9.6.0 rc1, I got this refusal:

> A valid provisioning profile for this executable was not found.

As far as I?m concerned, I?ve got the same provisioning profile as I had a few days ago, and it?s  been in the Standalone Settings for the app for some time, when this version of LC did several successful updates.

Can anyone suggest what I?ve done wrong?

Graham


From livfoss at mac.com  Fri May 22 04:53:44 2020
From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel)
Date: Fri, 22 May 2020 10:53:44 +0200
Subject: About box equivalent for mobile apps?
Message-ID: <D7587678-2697-4E57-8ED6-FEE34DF49471@mac.com>

In desktop apps, at least on the Mac, one has an ?About? box where you can put acknowledgements of the use of copyright material and any other info like the version number of the app. There isn?t such a provision in a mobile app, is there? Is there any convention for this that I?ve missed, or should I just wing it somehow?

Graham


From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Fri May 22 04:56:20 2020
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Fri, 22 May 2020 10:56:20 +0200
Subject: iOS Provisioning Profile issue
In-Reply-To: <900BE213-7741-442E-BCC6-79B85ECF2051@mac.com>
References: <900BE213-7741-442E-BCC6-79B85ECF2051@mac.com>
Message-ID: <6DCC77E9-3598-4723-B6B6-D0B763ADEFD2@m-r-d.de>

Graham,

did you check in your Apple developer account  if the provisioning profile is still valid? Maybe it has expired. That would explain why it is not working anymore.


-
Matthias Rebbe
Life Is Too Short For Boring Code

> Am 22.05.2020 um 10:51 schrieb Graham Samuel via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> I?ve been using XCode to load an app into my iPhone for some time now, but today using LC 9.6.0 rc1, I got this refusal:
> 
>> A valid provisioning profile for this executable was not found.
> 
> As far as I?m concerned, I?ve got the same provisioning profile as I had a few days ago, and it?s  been in the Standalone Settings for the app for some time, when this version of LC did several successful updates.
> 
> Can anyone suggest what I?ve done wrong?
> 
> Graham
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From merakosp at gmail.com  Fri May 22 04:58:55 2020
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Fri, 22 May 2020 11:58:55 +0300
Subject: iOS Provisioning Profile issue
In-Reply-To: <900BE213-7741-442E-BCC6-79B85ECF2051@mac.com>
References: <900BE213-7741-442E-BCC6-79B85ECF2051@mac.com>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq-=UMigjjAqHdQQGWCOW9zvmR3D2KYQL3A9gDwQYiRWLQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Graham,

Is that the same iOS device you used when you could successfully
install the app?

Kind regards,
Panos
--

On Fri, 22 May 2020 at 11:52, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I?ve been using XCode to load an app into my iPhone for some time now, but
> today using LC 9.6.0 rc1, I got this refusal:
>
> > A valid provisioning profile for this executable was not found.
>
> As far as I?m concerned, I?ve got the same provisioning profile as I had a
> few days ago, and it?s  been in the Standalone Settings for the app for
> some time, when this version of LC did several successful updates.
>
> Can anyone suggest what I?ve done wrong?
>
> Graham
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From livfoss at mac.com  Fri May 22 06:47:57 2020
From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel)
Date: Fri, 22 May 2020 12:47:57 +0200
Subject: iOS Provisioning Profile issue
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq-=UMigjjAqHdQQGWCOW9zvmR3D2KYQL3A9gDwQYiRWLQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+JfEq-=UMigjjAqHdQQGWCOW9zvmR3D2KYQL3A9gDwQYiRWLQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <65FB4F01-EFEE-4E46-8A44-FCFF21F9E416@mac.com>

Panos - thanks for asking

Yes it is - an iPhone XS which has been my key test device for weeks. Should I try it on the very latest version of LC? I had a download glitch last night so didn?t install it (the joys of rural broadband). 

Graham 


Sent from my iPhone

> On 22 May 2020, at 11:00, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> ?Hello Graham,
> 
> Is that the same iOS device you used when you could successfully
> install the app?
> 
> Kind regards,
> Panos
> --
> 
>> On Fri, 22 May 2020 at 11:52, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I?ve been using XCode to load an app into my iPhone for some time now, but
>> today using LC 9.6.0 rc1, I got this refusal:
>> 
>>> A valid provisioning profile for this executable was not found.
>> 
>> As far as I?m concerned, I?ve got the same provisioning profile as I had a
>> few days ago, and it?s  been in the Standalone Settings for the app for
>> some time, when this version of LC did several successful updates.
>> 
>> Can anyone suggest what I?ve done wrong?
>> 
>> Graham
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From merakosp at gmail.com  Fri May 22 07:48:46 2020
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Fri, 22 May 2020 14:48:46 +0300
Subject: iOS Provisioning Profile issue
In-Reply-To: <65FB4F01-EFEE-4E46-8A44-FCFF21F9E416@mac.com>
References: <CA+JfEq-=UMigjjAqHdQQGWCOW9zvmR3D2KYQL3A9gDwQYiRWLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <65FB4F01-EFEE-4E46-8A44-FCFF21F9E416@mac.com>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq8RBTnDKQymHAAsAN8C=9PzDzxK0TNuZdbCXcOz4uQMBQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Graham,

Hmm ok, that's strange. Could you make sure the provisioning profile has
not expired, and it is still valid, as Matthias suggested?

There is no need to download 9.6 RC-2 for that, we have not changed
anything that could cause this issue.

Kind regards,
Panos
--

On Fri, 22 May 2020 at 13:49, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Panos - thanks for asking
>
> Yes it is - an iPhone XS which has been my key test device for weeks.
> Should I try it on the very latest version of LC? I had a download glitch
> last night so didn?t install it (the joys of rural broadband).
>
> Graham
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On 22 May 2020, at 11:00, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > ?Hello Graham,
> >
> > Is that the same iOS device you used when you could successfully
> > install the app?
> >
> > Kind regards,
> > Panos
> > --
> >
> >> On Fri, 22 May 2020 at 11:52, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> I?ve been using XCode to load an app into my iPhone for some time now,
> but
> >> today using LC 9.6.0 rc1, I got this refusal:
> >>
> >>> A valid provisioning profile for this executable was not found.
> >>
> >> As far as I?m concerned, I?ve got the same provisioning profile as I
> had a
> >> few days ago, and it?s  been in the Standalone Settings for the app for
> >> some time, when this version of LC did several successful updates.
> >>
> >> Can anyone suggest what I?ve done wrong?
> >>
> >> Graham
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> use-livecode mailing list
> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >> subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From merakosp at gmail.com  Fri May 22 07:51:49 2020
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Fri, 22 May 2020 14:51:49 +0300
Subject: LC 9.6.0 RC1 Splash/Launch Images
In-Reply-To: <D1511D2A-0143-4B4C-ABC0-2DC8275C8E57@gmail.com>
References: <6EA5970F-3F53-4A02-BFDF-5ED10E403C85@mac.com>
 <002BA43B-F6E1-44F9-BA5C-197C8763E65C@mac.com>
 <CA+JfEq8fF1hsi92cQyvmkuamy_nL9cPJdCG1Dcort+abFChneg@mail.gmail.com>
 <D1511D2A-0143-4B4C-ABC0-2DC8275C8E57@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq8J2eEvb1JkYtHV7WT9xonm_3zLYrLikvET4CPnSFbo2w@mail.gmail.com>

Just realised that the image sizes I suggested are for landscape, so if
your app uses portrait, just swap the width with the height.



On Sun, 17 May 2020 at 21:35, Colin Holgate via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> What I?ve done for a while is to use a flat color that is the average of
> the colors in the actual title screen. The splash screen is not around for
> very long, and with there being lots of different sizes required, a
> detailed splash screen could possibly take up 50 MB of app side, for the
> sake of a fraction of a second.
>
> In the best case it feels like the title screen faded into view. In fact,
> you could do that, quickly fade in from a matching flat background color.
>
>
> > On May 17, 2020, at 10:58 AM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hello Graham,
> >
> > The new storyboard mechanism has some restrictions as it is (we might
> > enhance it in the future)
> >
> > For example it is no longer possible to have an exact (pixel) matching of
> > the splash screen and the first card of the stack as it appears on the
> > device
> >
> > So the best suggestion now is to use a splash image that has just a logo
> at
> > the center and it is transparent, and also to set the background of the
> > splash in the standalone settings.
> >
> > In that way, in all devices (ipads/iphones) you will get a centered logo
> > with the background you set in the standalone settings (or you can choose
> > to not set the background - in this case the default background color
> will
> > be used depending on the device appearance: white if the device is on
> light
> > mode and black if the device is on dark mode)
> >
> > Of course, if you do not wish to have a splash that shows just a logo,
> you
> > can choose a regular image (or 3 regular images, one for each 1x,2x,3x
> > slots) and also set the background color to match the image background
> > color. In this case, depending of the device, the app will use the one of
> > the three images that is closer to the device screen size, and will
> center
> > this image to the screen.
> >
> > This means that the image in some devices will either match exactly, or
> it
> > will be larger (in this case it will be cropped and the edges will not
> > show), or it will be smaller (in this case it will be centered at the
> > device screen, and the left/top/right/bottom areas will show the
> background
> > color that was set in the standalone settings.
> >
> > One might ask, what size should the images be then? Well, it depends on
> the
> > images (i.e. how much content they have at the center, and if you are OK
> if
> > some of the content at the edges is cropped etc). A rule of thumb - as I
> > understand it - is the following:
> >
> > -use a "small", a "medium" and a "large" image for each of the 1x, 2x and
> > 3x slots, where "small" is the smallest image you used before the
> > storyboard, "large" is the largest you used before, and "medium" is
> > something in-between.
> >
> > For example, you could try images with these dimensions:
> >
> > - 1334x750
> > - 2208x1242 (x2)
> > - 2732x2048 (x3)
> >
> > Hope this helps.
> >
> > We will write a lesson for this topic soon.
> >
> > Kind regards,
> > Panos
> > --
> >
> > On Sat, 16 May 2020 at 17:49, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> >> This is not to answer my own question, but to emphasise the apparent
> >> difficulty of getting this aspect of creating an iOS app right just by
> >> using just LC and a reasonable graphics editor on a Mac. It means to me
> >> that a lot of careful instructions need to be provided by somebody in
> the
> >> LC universe, since the policy (I sincerely hope!) is to get LC
> developers
> >> to avoid getting deep into XCode. I found this, which frankly scares me.
> >>
> >> https://wiki.starling-framework.org/manual/ios_launch_images
> >>
> >> Can anyone help me to a less nerdy way of getting this right? I don?t
> >> even know what a storyboard is!
> >>
> >> Graham
> >>
> >>> On 16 May 2020, at 00:40, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I see that the iOS Standalone Settings have changed in this version, no
> >> doubt to accommodate Apple?s new rules. One is required to provide six
> >> images as ?Launch Images? under the ?Splash? tab. It seems that there?s
> an
> >> image, a 2x image and a 3x image, and then another three for dark mode.
> >>>
> >>> There is no tooltip to suggest how large these images should be - in
> >> previous versions they had to be tailored to different device screen
> sizes.
> >> Now it seems anything goes, or does it?
> >>>
> >>> Can anyone explain what the dimensions of these images are supposed to
> >> be? Does ?2x? just mean twice the original size in each direction or
> what?
> >> Can?t see anything in the release notes, but maybe I wasn?t paying
> >> attention.
> >>>
> >>> Graham
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> use-livecode mailing list
> >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >> subscription preferences:
> >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> use-livecode mailing list
> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >> subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From andre at andregarzia.com  Fri May 22 08:11:44 2020
From: andre at andregarzia.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Fri, 22 May 2020 13:11:44 +0100
Subject: Enabling "About MyApp"
In-Reply-To: <081d3dfa-1d44-d0f7-1d76-f8ea21a87bfc@fourthworld.com>
References: <1356188370.13648.1589230064799@myemail.cox.net>
 <081d3dfa-1d44-d0f7-1d76-f8ea21a87bfc@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <CAF3jwTmnbOXwvWTnQKorOQhrxuRcuht8M5SmqubGJSiRprwTgg@mail.gmail.com>

This should be in the user guide...

On Tue, 12 May 2020 at 00:42, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> GEORGE WOOD wrote:
>
>  > How can I activate the "About MyApp" under the Apple menu?
>
> On other OSes the "About" item is usually the last item in the Help
> menu.  If you put your About item there, you'll find that when LC
> automatically translates its menu objects for the Mac menu bar it'll
> move your About item to the application menu.
>
> In fact, a similar thing happens with "Preferences". On most platforms
> it's the last item in the Edit menu, and when you put a "Preferences"
> item there the automatic menu bar change that LC does will put it in the
> application menu as well, below About.
>
> --
>   Richard Gaskin
>   Fourth World Systems
>   Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>   ____________________________________________________________________
>   Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
http://www.andregarzia.com


From livfoss at mac.com  Fri May 22 08:23:59 2020
From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel)
Date: Fri, 22 May 2020 14:23:59 +0200
Subject: LC 9.6.0 RC1 Splash/Launch Images
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq8J2eEvb1JkYtHV7WT9xonm_3zLYrLikvET4CPnSFbo2w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6EA5970F-3F53-4A02-BFDF-5ED10E403C85@mac.com>
 <002BA43B-F6E1-44F9-BA5C-197C8763E65C@mac.com>
 <CA+JfEq8fF1hsi92cQyvmkuamy_nL9cPJdCG1Dcort+abFChneg@mail.gmail.com>
 <D1511D2A-0143-4B4C-ABC0-2DC8275C8E57@gmail.com>
 <CA+JfEq8J2eEvb1JkYtHV7WT9xonm_3zLYrLikvET4CPnSFbo2w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D3E19517-E5BA-4BD2-944C-F146E30885B1@mac.com>

I did that, so fine, but noticed two issues: when making the standalone LC 9.6.0 rc1 reported that I hadn?t provided a portrait splash screen for iPad, when in fact there is no way of doing so since the storyboard change; and the Simulator showed the splash screen too large for the screen of the device (an iPhone XS). (Not sure if the real app does that as I?m having trouble uploading - that?s a different conversation.)

Graham

> On 22 May 2020, at 13:51, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Just realised that the image sizes I suggested are for landscape, so if
> your app uses portrait, just swap the width with the height.
> 
> 
> 
> On Sun, 17 May 2020 at 21:35, Colin Holgate via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> What I?ve done for a while is to use a flat color that is the average of
>> the colors in the actual title screen. The splash screen is not around for
>> very long, and with there being lots of different sizes required, a
>> detailed splash screen could possibly take up 50 MB of app side, for the
>> sake of a fraction of a second.
>> 
>> In the best case it feels like the title screen faded into view. In fact,
>> you could do that, quickly fade in from a matching flat background color.
>> 
>> 
>>> On May 17, 2020, at 10:58 AM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello Graham,
>>> 
>>> The new storyboard mechanism has some restrictions as it is (we might
>>> enhance it in the future)
>>> 
>>> For example it is no longer possible to have an exact (pixel) matching of
>>> the splash screen and the first card of the stack as it appears on the
>>> device
>>> 
>>> So the best suggestion now is to use a splash image that has just a logo
>> at
>>> the center and it is transparent, and also to set the background of the
>>> splash in the standalone settings.
>>> 
>>> In that way, in all devices (ipads/iphones) you will get a centered logo
>>> with the background you set in the standalone settings (or you can choose
>>> to not set the background - in this case the default background color
>> will
>>> be used depending on the device appearance: white if the device is on
>> light
>>> mode and black if the device is on dark mode)
>>> 
>>> Of course, if you do not wish to have a splash that shows just a logo,
>> you
>>> can choose a regular image (or 3 regular images, one for each 1x,2x,3x
>>> slots) and also set the background color to match the image background
>>> color. In this case, depending of the device, the app will use the one of
>>> the three images that is closer to the device screen size, and will
>> center
>>> this image to the screen.
>>> 
>>> This means that the image in some devices will either match exactly, or
>> it
>>> will be larger (in this case it will be cropped and the edges will not
>>> show), or it will be smaller (in this case it will be centered at the
>>> device screen, and the left/top/right/bottom areas will show the
>> background
>>> color that was set in the standalone settings.
>>> 
>>> One might ask, what size should the images be then? Well, it depends on
>> the
>>> images (i.e. how much content they have at the center, and if you are OK
>> if
>>> some of the content at the edges is cropped etc). A rule of thumb - as I
>>> understand it - is the following:
>>> 
>>> -use a "small", a "medium" and a "large" image for each of the 1x, 2x and
>>> 3x slots, where "small" is the smallest image you used before the
>>> storyboard, "large" is the largest you used before, and "medium" is
>>> something in-between.
>>> 
>>> For example, you could try images with these dimensions:
>>> 
>>> - 1334x750
>>> - 2208x1242 (x2)
>>> - 2732x2048 (x3)
>>> 
>>> Hope this helps.
>>> 
>>> We will write a lesson for this topic soon.
>>> 
>>> Kind regards,
>>> Panos
>>> --
>>> 
>>> On Sat, 16 May 2020 at 17:49, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> This is not to answer my own question, but to emphasise the apparent
>>>> difficulty of getting this aspect of creating an iOS app right just by
>>>> using just LC and a reasonable graphics editor on a Mac. It means to me
>>>> that a lot of careful instructions need to be provided by somebody in
>> the
>>>> LC universe, since the policy (I sincerely hope!) is to get LC
>> developers
>>>> to avoid getting deep into XCode. I found this, which frankly scares me.
>>>> 
>>>> https://wiki.starling-framework.org/manual/ios_launch_images
>>>> 
>>>> Can anyone help me to a less nerdy way of getting this right? I don?t
>>>> even know what a storyboard is!
>>>> 
>>>> Graham
>>>> 
>>>>> On 16 May 2020, at 00:40, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I see that the iOS Standalone Settings have changed in this version, no
>>>> doubt to accommodate Apple?s new rules. One is required to provide six
>>>> images as ?Launch Images? under the ?Splash? tab. It seems that there?s
>> an
>>>> image, a 2x image and a 3x image, and then another three for dark mode.
>>>>> 
>>>>> There is no tooltip to suggest how large these images should be - in
>>>> previous versions they had to be tailored to different device screen
>> sizes.
>>>> Now it seems anything goes, or does it?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Can anyone explain what the dimensions of these images are supposed to
>>>> be? Does ?2x? just mean twice the original size in each direction or
>> what?
>>>> Can?t see anything in the release notes, but maybe I wasn?t paying
>>>> attention.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Graham
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From livfoss at mac.com  Fri May 22 08:26:01 2020
From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel)
Date: Fri, 22 May 2020 14:26:01 +0200
Subject: Enabling "About MyApp"
In-Reply-To: <CAF3jwTmnbOXwvWTnQKorOQhrxuRcuht8M5SmqubGJSiRprwTgg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1356188370.13648.1589230064799@myemail.cox.net>
 <081d3dfa-1d44-d0f7-1d76-f8ea21a87bfc@fourthworld.com>
 <CAF3jwTmnbOXwvWTnQKorOQhrxuRcuht8M5SmqubGJSiRprwTgg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <505D3C7A-46DA-453F-8755-99CA139174AB@mac.com>

Sorry, how does this apply to a mobile app which hasn?t got a menu in an explicit sense - of course I can provide a ?menu? item, i.e. some kind of choice the user can make (I do in fact have a ?settings? card in the app I?m producing, so that could be somewhere to put it), but it?s not obligatory, is it?

Graham

> On 22 May 2020, at 14:11, Andre Garzia via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> This should be in the user guide...
> 
> On Tue, 12 May 2020 at 00:42, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> GEORGE WOOD wrote:
>> 
>>> How can I activate the "About MyApp" under the Apple menu?
>> 
>> On other OSes the "About" item is usually the last item in the Help
>> menu.  If you put your About item there, you'll find that when LC
>> automatically translates its menu objects for the Mac menu bar it'll
>> move your About item to the application menu.
>> 
>> In fact, a similar thing happens with "Preferences". On most platforms
>> it's the last item in the Edit menu, and when you put a "Preferences"
>> item there the automatic menu bar change that LC does will put it in the
>> application menu as well, below About.
>> 
>> --
>>  Richard Gaskin
>>  Fourth World Systems
>>  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>>  ____________________________________________________________________
>>  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> http://www.andregarzia.com
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From merakosp at gmail.com  Fri May 22 08:48:37 2020
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Fri, 22 May 2020 15:48:37 +0300
Subject: LC 9.6.0 RC1 Splash/Launch Images
In-Reply-To: <D3E19517-E5BA-4BD2-944C-F146E30885B1@mac.com>
References: <6EA5970F-3F53-4A02-BFDF-5ED10E403C85@mac.com>
 <002BA43B-F6E1-44F9-BA5C-197C8763E65C@mac.com>
 <CA+JfEq8fF1hsi92cQyvmkuamy_nL9cPJdCG1Dcort+abFChneg@mail.gmail.com>
 <D1511D2A-0143-4B4C-ABC0-2DC8275C8E57@gmail.com>
 <CA+JfEq8J2eEvb1JkYtHV7WT9xonm_3zLYrLikvET4CPnSFbo2w@mail.gmail.com>
 <D3E19517-E5BA-4BD2-944C-F146E30885B1@mac.com>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq9N+LVFBtyWK8cgew8jgoG-m8b6=oCSwP9sP2+DVPAHfg@mail.gmail.com>

*>>>>>LC 9.6.0 rc1 reported that I hadn?t provided a portrait splash screen
for iPad*

Yes, this is a bug in LC 9.6 RC-1, which is fixed in LC 9.6 RC-2.

*>>>>>and the Simulator showed the splash screen too large for the screen
of the device *

Hmm, then I would expect the splash to show too large in the physical
device as well. In this case, I would try with a smaller splash.

Kind regards,
Panos
--

On Fri, 22 May 2020 at 15:25, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I did that, so fine, but noticed two issues: when making the standalone LC
> 9.6.0 rc1 reported that I hadn?t provided a portrait splash screen for
> iPad, when in fact there is no way of doing so since the storyboard change;
> and the Simulator showed the splash screen too large for the screen of the
> device (an iPhone XS). (Not sure if the real app does that as I?m having
> trouble uploading - that?s a different conversation.)
>
> Graham
>
> > On 22 May 2020, at 13:51, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Just realised that the image sizes I suggested are for landscape, so if
> > your app uses portrait, just swap the width with the height.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sun, 17 May 2020 at 21:35, Colin Holgate via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> >> What I?ve done for a while is to use a flat color that is the average of
> >> the colors in the actual title screen. The splash screen is not around
> for
> >> very long, and with there being lots of different sizes required, a
> >> detailed splash screen could possibly take up 50 MB of app side, for the
> >> sake of a fraction of a second.
> >>
> >> In the best case it feels like the title screen faded into view. In
> fact,
> >> you could do that, quickly fade in from a matching flat background
> color.
> >>
> >>
> >>> On May 17, 2020, at 10:58 AM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <
> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hello Graham,
> >>>
> >>> The new storyboard mechanism has some restrictions as it is (we might
> >>> enhance it in the future)
> >>>
> >>> For example it is no longer possible to have an exact (pixel) matching
> of
> >>> the splash screen and the first card of the stack as it appears on the
> >>> device
> >>>
> >>> So the best suggestion now is to use a splash image that has just a
> logo
> >> at
> >>> the center and it is transparent, and also to set the background of the
> >>> splash in the standalone settings.
> >>>
> >>> In that way, in all devices (ipads/iphones) you will get a centered
> logo
> >>> with the background you set in the standalone settings (or you can
> choose
> >>> to not set the background - in this case the default background color
> >> will
> >>> be used depending on the device appearance: white if the device is on
> >> light
> >>> mode and black if the device is on dark mode)
> >>>
> >>> Of course, if you do not wish to have a splash that shows just a logo,
> >> you
> >>> can choose a regular image (or 3 regular images, one for each 1x,2x,3x
> >>> slots) and also set the background color to match the image background
> >>> color. In this case, depending of the device, the app will use the one
> of
> >>> the three images that is closer to the device screen size, and will
> >> center
> >>> this image to the screen.
> >>>
> >>> This means that the image in some devices will either match exactly, or
> >> it
> >>> will be larger (in this case it will be cropped and the edges will not
> >>> show), or it will be smaller (in this case it will be centered at the
> >>> device screen, and the left/top/right/bottom areas will show the
> >> background
> >>> color that was set in the standalone settings.
> >>>
> >>> One might ask, what size should the images be then? Well, it depends on
> >> the
> >>> images (i.e. how much content they have at the center, and if you are
> OK
> >> if
> >>> some of the content at the edges is cropped etc). A rule of thumb - as
> I
> >>> understand it - is the following:
> >>>
> >>> -use a "small", a "medium" and a "large" image for each of the 1x, 2x
> and
> >>> 3x slots, where "small" is the smallest image you used before the
> >>> storyboard, "large" is the largest you used before, and "medium" is
> >>> something in-between.
> >>>
> >>> For example, you could try images with these dimensions:
> >>>
> >>> - 1334x750
> >>> - 2208x1242 (x2)
> >>> - 2732x2048 (x3)
> >>>
> >>> Hope this helps.
> >>>
> >>> We will write a lesson for this topic soon.
> >>>
> >>> Kind regards,
> >>> Panos
> >>> --
> >>>
> >>> On Sat, 16 May 2020 at 17:49, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
> >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> This is not to answer my own question, but to emphasise the apparent
> >>>> difficulty of getting this aspect of creating an iOS app right just by
> >>>> using just LC and a reasonable graphics editor on a Mac. It means to
> me
> >>>> that a lot of careful instructions need to be provided by somebody in
> >> the
> >>>> LC universe, since the policy (I sincerely hope!) is to get LC
> >> developers
> >>>> to avoid getting deep into XCode. I found this, which frankly scares
> me.
> >>>>
> >>>> https://wiki.starling-framework.org/manual/ios_launch_images
> >>>>
> >>>> Can anyone help me to a less nerdy way of getting this right? I don?t
> >>>> even know what a storyboard is!
> >>>>
> >>>> Graham
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 16 May 2020, at 00:40, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
> >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I see that the iOS Standalone Settings have changed in this version,
> no
> >>>> doubt to accommodate Apple?s new rules. One is required to provide six
> >>>> images as ?Launch Images? under the ?Splash? tab. It seems that
> there?s
> >> an
> >>>> image, a 2x image and a 3x image, and then another three for dark
> mode.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> There is no tooltip to suggest how large these images should be - in
> >>>> previous versions they had to be tailored to different device screen
> >> sizes.
> >>>> Now it seems anything goes, or does it?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Can anyone explain what the dimensions of these images are supposed
> to
> >>>> be? Does ?2x? just mean twice the original size in each direction or
> >> what?
> >>>> Can?t see anything in the release notes, but maybe I wasn?t paying
> >>>> attention.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Graham
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> use-livecode mailing list
> >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >>>> subscription preferences:
> >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> use-livecode mailing list
> >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >>>> subscription preferences:
> >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >>>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> use-livecode mailing list
> >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >> subscription preferences:
> >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> use-livecode mailing list
> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >> subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From livfoss at mac.com  Fri May 22 11:09:01 2020
From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel)
Date: Fri, 22 May 2020 17:09:01 +0200
Subject: Enabling "About MyApp"
In-Reply-To: <505D3C7A-46DA-453F-8755-99CA139174AB@mac.com>
References: <1356188370.13648.1589230064799@myemail.cox.net>
 <081d3dfa-1d44-d0f7-1d76-f8ea21a87bfc@fourthworld.com>
 <CAF3jwTmnbOXwvWTnQKorOQhrxuRcuht8M5SmqubGJSiRprwTgg@mail.gmail.com>
 <505D3C7A-46DA-453F-8755-99CA139174AB@mac.com>
Message-ID: <1A1CD4FC-B25F-4406-8DBC-6139C44A7A62@mac.com>

Oops, I think this is a different conversation. My issue is with mobile apps.

Apologies

Graham

> On 22 May 2020, at 14:26, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Sorry, how does this apply to a mobile app which hasn?t got a menu in an explicit sense - of course I can provide a ?menu? item, i.e. some kind of choice the user can make (I do in fact have a ?settings? card in the app I?m producing, so that could be somewhere to put it), but it?s not obligatory, is it?
> 
> Graham
> 
>> On 22 May 2020, at 14:11, Andre Garzia via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> This should be in the user guide...
>> 
>> On Tue, 12 May 2020 at 00:42, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> GEORGE WOOD wrote:
>>> 
>>>> How can I activate the "About MyApp" under the Apple menu?
>>> 
>>> On other OSes the "About" item is usually the last item in the Help
>>> menu.  If you put your About item there, you'll find that when LC
>>> automatically translates its menu objects for the Mac menu bar it'll
>>> move your About item to the application menu.
>>> 
>>> In fact, a similar thing happens with "Preferences". On most platforms
>>> it's the last item in the Edit menu, and when you put a "Preferences"
>>> item there the automatic menu bar change that LC does will put it in the
>>> application menu as well, below About.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Richard Gaskin
>>> Fourth World Systems
>>> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>>> ____________________________________________________________________
>>> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> http://www.andregarzia.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From livfoss at mac.com  Fri May 22 11:16:38 2020
From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel)
Date: Fri, 22 May 2020 17:16:38 +0200
Subject: iOS Provisioning Profile issue
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq8RBTnDKQymHAAsAN8C=9PzDzxK0TNuZdbCXcOz4uQMBQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+JfEq-=UMigjjAqHdQQGWCOW9zvmR3D2KYQL3A9gDwQYiRWLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <65FB4F01-EFEE-4E46-8A44-FCFF21F9E416@mac.com>
 <CA+JfEq8RBTnDKQymHAAsAN8C=9PzDzxK0TNuZdbCXcOz4uQMBQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6DA4C131-9CF6-4F78-8D83-878F1FDA7968@mac.com>

Panos, it is very strange: I looked up my provisioning profile in the developer.app.com site (I?ve only got the one provisioning profile, for iOS, type ?App Store"), noted that the expiry date is 8 May 2021, re-downloade it, double-clicked it to bring it to the attention of XCode, and tried the upload of the app to the phone again. Exactly the same result. 

My next move is to revisit the Standalone Settings for the app - I am not quite sure  how LC knows which profiles I have or where they are, but I assume it?s looking in Keychain Access as I have had to supply a password for that, and where one can read that the certificate exists and is valid.

Graham


> On 22 May 2020, at 13:48, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hello Graham,
> 
> Hmm ok, that's strange. Could you make sure the provisioning profile has
> not expired, and it is still valid, as Matthias suggested?
> 
> There is no need to download 9.6 RC-2 for that, we have not changed
> anything that could cause this issue.
> 
> Kind regards,
> Panos
> --
> 
> On Fri, 22 May 2020 at 13:49, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Panos - thanks for asking
>> 
>> Yes it is - an iPhone XS which has been my key test device for weeks.
>> Should I try it on the very latest version of LC? I had a download glitch
>> last night so didn?t install it (the joys of rural broadband).
>> 
>> Graham
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On 22 May 2020, at 11:00, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?Hello Graham,
>>> 
>>> Is that the same iOS device you used when you could successfully
>>> install the app?
>>> 
>>> Kind regards,
>>> Panos
>>> --
>>> 
>>>> On Fri, 22 May 2020 at 11:52, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I?ve been using XCode to load an app into my iPhone for some time now,
>> but
>>>> today using LC 9.6.0 rc1, I got this refusal:
>>>> 
>>>>> A valid provisioning profile for this executable was not found.
>>>> 
>>>> As far as I?m concerned, I?ve got the same provisioning profile as I
>> had a
>>>> few days ago, and it?s  been in the Standalone Settings for the app for
>>>> some time, when this version of LC did several successful updates.
>>>> 
>>>> Can anyone suggest what I?ve done wrong?
>>>> 
>>>> Graham
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From phil at liverpool.ac.uk  Fri May 22 11:34:09 2020
From: phil at liverpool.ac.uk (Jimmieson, Phil)
Date: Fri, 22 May 2020 15:34:09 +0000
Subject: iOS Provisioning Profile issue
In-Reply-To: <6DA4C131-9CF6-4F78-8D83-878F1FDA7968@mac.com>
References: <CA+JfEq-=UMigjjAqHdQQGWCOW9zvmR3D2KYQL3A9gDwQYiRWLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <65FB4F01-EFEE-4E46-8A44-FCFF21F9E416@mac.com>
 <CA+JfEq8RBTnDKQymHAAsAN8C=9PzDzxK0TNuZdbCXcOz4uQMBQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <6DA4C131-9CF6-4F78-8D83-878F1FDA7968@mac.com>
Message-ID: <7F8B21AA-91AE-40B6-B5DC-C72634F9F68E@liverpool.ac.uk>

Hi Graham,
What I usually do when I have provisioning profile problems is:

locate the folder that contains my downloaded profiles -  it?s in your personal library folder in your home folder (which by default is hidden).

In my case I open a window to:

/Users/phil/Library/MobileDevice/Provisioning Profiles/

Trash all of the profiles in there.

Start Xcode, and once it?s running go to preferences and select the accounts tab. From the area on the right of the window, select download manual profiles - this will re-download the profiles from Apple (and repopulate the folder that you just emptied).

Go back to LiveCode, and from the standalone application settings window, iOS tab, select the required profile from the profile popup menu.

All of that usually solves the problem. I did once have an issue where even that didn?t work, and in that case I logged in to Apple's developer site, trashed the provisioning profile and re-created it. I then went through the sequence outlined above and this time it was successful.

On 22 May 2020, at 16:16, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com<mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>> wrote:

Panos, it is very strange: I looked up my provisioning profile in the developer.app.com<http://developer.app.com> site (I?ve only got the one provisioning profile, for iOS, type ?App Store"), noted that the expiry date is 8 May 2021, re-downloade it, double-clicked it to bring it to the attention of XCode, and tried the upload of the app to the phone again. Exactly the same result.

My next move is to revisit the Standalone Settings for the app - I am not quite sure  how LC knows which profiles I have or where they are, but I assume it?s looking in Keychain Access as I have had to supply a password for that, and where one can read that the certificate exists and is valid.

Graham


On 22 May 2020, at 13:48, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com<mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>> wrote:

Hello Graham,

Hmm ok, that's strange. Could you make sure the provisioning profile has
not expired, and it is still valid, as Matthias suggested?

There is no need to download 9.6 RC-2 for that, we have not changed
anything that could cause this issue.

Kind regards,
Panos
--

On Fri, 22 May 2020 at 13:49, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com<mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>> wrote:

Panos - thanks for asking

Yes it is - an iPhone XS which has been my key test device for weeks.
Should I try it on the very latest version of LC? I had a download glitch
last night so didn?t install it (the joys of rural broadband).

Graham


Sent from my iPhone

On 22 May 2020, at 11:00, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com<mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>> wrote:

?Hello Graham,

Is that the same iOS device you used when you could successfully
install the app?

Kind regards,
Panos
--

On Fri, 22 May 2020 at 11:52, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com<mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>> wrote:

I?ve been using XCode to load an app into my iPhone for some time now,
but
today using LC 9.6.0 rc1, I got this refusal:

A valid provisioning profile for this executable was not found.

As far as I?m concerned, I?ve got the same provisioning profile as I
had a
few days ago, and it?s  been in the Standalone Settings for the app for
some time, when this version of LC did several successful updates.

Can anyone suggest what I?ve done wrong?

--
Phil Jimmieson
University of Liverpool, Computer Science Department
Ashton Bldg, Ashton Street, Liverpool. L69 3BX
0151 795 4236

From andrew at midwestcoastmedia.com  Fri May 22 12:41:19 2020
From: andrew at midwestcoastmedia.com (Andrew at MidWest Coast Media)
Date: Fri, 22 May 2020 12:41:19 -0400
Subject: LC 9.6.0 RC1 Splash/Launch Images
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1590163202.308666.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
References: <mailman.1.1590163202.308666.use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
Message-ID: <484EB460-F6F7-4ADB-8701-437EF1BA697B@midwestcoastmedia.com>

I had the same problem when creating storyboards: the icon was too big. My app was portrait so I could tell the dimensions were backwards, but when using the the recommended sizes the logo ran off the edges. Placing the 1x version in the 2x slot (and the 2x in the 3x slot) seemed to make things look more like what I expected.

Making the first card of the stack have the same background color as the Storyboard worked fine, then just...
unlock screen for visual effect
go next card
unlock screen with visual effect ?dissolve? very fast

?Andrew Bell


> *>>>>>and the Simulator showed the splash screen too large for the screen
> of the device *
> 
> Hmm, then I would expect the splash to show too large in the physical
> device as well. In this case, I would try with a smaller splash.
> 
> Kind regards,
> Panos
> --
> 
> On Fri, 22 May 2020 at 15:25, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> I did that, so fine, but noticed two issues: when making the standalone LC
>> 9.6.0 rc1 reported that I hadn?t provided a portrait splash screen for
>> iPad, when in fact there is no way of doing so since the storyboard change;
>> and the Simulator showed the splash screen too large for the screen of the
>> device (an iPhone XS). (Not sure if the real app does that as I?m having
>> trouble uploading - that?s a different conversation.)
>> 
>> Graham




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri May 22 12:47:49 2020
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 22 May 2020 09:47:49 -0700
Subject: About box equivalent for mobile apps?
In-Reply-To: <D7587678-2697-4E57-8ED6-FEE34DF49471@mac.com>
References: <D7587678-2697-4E57-8ED6-FEE34DF49471@mac.com>
Message-ID: <e82866f2-4e78-3ff3-d275-7862202ad7b4@fourthworld.com>

Graham Samuel wrote:
 > In desktop apps, at least on the Mac, one has an ?About? box where
 > you can put acknowledgements of the use of copyright material and
 > any other info like the version number of the app. There isn?t such
 > a provision in a mobile app, is there? Is there any convention for
 > this that I?ve missed, or should I just wing it somehow?

You may have to wing it.  I didn't turn up anything on About info in a 
quick review of the iOS HIG:
https://developer.apple.com/design/human-interface-guidelines/ios/overview/themes/

Also turned up no general discussion searching for a convention on this 
in DuckDuckGo.

If someone here has an authoritative reference to the contrary please 
post it, but as AFAIK it looks like there is no prescribed place for 
such info.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com




From jeejeestudio at gmail.com  Fri May 22 10:52:14 2020
From: jeejeestudio at gmail.com (JeeJeeStudio)
Date: Fri, 22 May 2020 16:52:14 +0200
Subject: iOS Provisioning Profile issue
In-Reply-To: <65FB4F01-EFEE-4E46-8A44-FCFF21F9E416@mac.com>
References: <CA+JfEq-=UMigjjAqHdQQGWCOW9zvmR3D2KYQL3A9gDwQYiRWLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <65FB4F01-EFEE-4E46-8A44-FCFF21F9E416@mac.com>
Message-ID: <eb5f3fe2-4b49-1446-740d-cc6253dfba1f@gmail.com>

AS far as i know this profile lasts for 6 days for development.

Then you have to renew it in Xcode.

Op 22-5-2020 om 12:47 schreef Graham Samuel via use-livecode:
> Panos - thanks for asking
>
> Yes it is - an iPhone XS which has been my key test device for weeks. Should I try it on the very latest version of LC? I had a download glitch last night so didn?t install it (the joys of rural broadband).
>
> Graham
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On 22 May 2020, at 11:00, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>> ?Hello Graham,
>>
>> Is that the same iOS device you used when you could successfully
>> install the app?
>>
>> Kind regards,
>> Panos
>> --
>>
>>> On Fri, 22 May 2020 at 11:52, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I?ve been using XCode to load an app into my iPhone for some time now, but
>>> today using LC 9.6.0 rc1, I got this refusal:
>>>
>>>> A valid provisioning profile for this executable was not found.
>>> As far as I?m concerned, I?ve got the same provisioning profile as I had a
>>> few days ago, and it?s  been in the Standalone Settings for the app for
>>> some time, when this version of LC did several successful updates.
>>>
>>> Can anyone suggest what I?ve done wrong?
>>>
>>> Graham
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri May 22 12:52:49 2020
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 22 May 2020 09:52:49 -0700
Subject: Enabling "About MyApp"
In-Reply-To: <CAF3jwTmnbOXwvWTnQKorOQhrxuRcuht8M5SmqubGJSiRprwTgg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAF3jwTmnbOXwvWTnQKorOQhrxuRcuht8M5SmqubGJSiRprwTgg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f7ed42ec-e3d7-15a5-306e-15f17a89b03a@fourthworld.com>

Agreed, and apparently the docs team does too - see the chapter 
"Programming Menus & Menu Bars", section "Menu Bars on Mac OS X 
Systems", where pg 181 discusses "Special Menu Items".

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems


Andre Garzia wrote:

 > This should be in the user guide...
 >
 > On Tue, 12 May 2020 at 00:42, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
 > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
 >
 >> GEORGE WOOD wrote:
 >>
 >>  > How can I activate the "About MyApp" under the Apple menu?
 >>
 >> On other OSes the "About" item is usually the last item in the Help
 >> menu.  If you put your About item there, you'll find that when LC
 >> automatically translates its menu objects for the Mac menu bar it'll
 >> move your About item to the application menu.
 >>
 >> In fact, a similar thing happens with "Preferences". On most
 >> platforms it's the last item in the Edit menu, and when you put a
 >> "Preferences" item there the automatic menu bar change that LC does
 >> will put it in the application menu as well, below About.




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Fri May 22 12:56:50 2020
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Fri, 22 May 2020 09:56:50 -0700
Subject: Enabling "About MyApp"
In-Reply-To: <505D3C7A-46DA-453F-8755-99CA139174AB@mac.com>
References: <505D3C7A-46DA-453F-8755-99CA139174AB@mac.com>
Message-ID: <aa4009dd-0d01-015a-fb07-add7bbeb6dc4@fourthworld.com>

My comment was in reply to George's request about desktop menus.

Mobile systems have no menu bar of course, so any conventions that apply 
to menu bars don't apply to mobile platforms.

I did a couple searchs to try to find an answer for your mobile 
question, and posted the results here:
http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2020-May/260470.html

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems


Graham Samuel wrote:
 > Sorry, how does this apply to a mobile app which hasn?t got a menu in
 > an explicit sense - of course I can provide a ?menu? item, i.e. some
 > kind of choice the user can make (I do in fact have a ?settings? card
 > in the app I?m producing, so that could be somewhere to put it), but
 > it?s not obligatory, is it?
 >
 > Graham
 >
 >> On 22 May 2020, at 14:11, Andre Garzia via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
 >>
 >> This should be in the user guide...
 >>
 >> On Tue, 12 May 2020 at 00:42, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
 >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
 >>
 >>> GEORGE WOOD wrote:
 >>>
 >>>> How can I activate the "About MyApp" under the Apple menu?
 >>>
 >>> On other OSes the "About" item is usually the last item in the Help
 >>> menu.  If you put your About item there, you'll find that when LC
 >>> automatically translates its menu objects for the Mac menu bar it'll
 >>> move your About item to the application menu.
 >>>
 >>> In fact, a similar thing happens with "Preferences". On most
 >>> platforms it's the last item in the Edit menu, and when you put a
 >>> "Preferences" item there the automatic menu bar change that LC does
 >>> will put it in the application menu as well, below About.




From merakosp at gmail.com  Fri May 22 15:31:25 2020
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Fri, 22 May 2020 22:31:25 +0300
Subject: iOS Provisioning Profile issue
In-Reply-To: <eb5f3fe2-4b49-1446-740d-cc6253dfba1f@gmail.com>
References: <CA+JfEq-=UMigjjAqHdQQGWCOW9zvmR3D2KYQL3A9gDwQYiRWLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <65FB4F01-EFEE-4E46-8A44-FCFF21F9E416@mac.com>
 <eb5f3fe2-4b49-1446-740d-cc6253dfba1f@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq84X9jP+g+DL7qN0C9jBCjbiRP3yO_cEyjq92qDN7Uk5g@mail.gmail.com>

Oh, I see. If the provisioning profile is of type "AppStore", then it is a
Distribution profile, so you will not be able to use this profile for
installing the app directly to your device.

You need an iOS Development profile for being able to install the app on
the device.

Regards,
Panos

On Fri, May 22, 2020, 19:53 JeeJeeStudio via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> AS far as i know this profile lasts for 6 days for development.
>
> Then you have to renew it in Xcode.
>
> Op 22-5-2020 om 12:47 schreef Graham Samuel via use-livecode:
> > Panos - thanks for asking
> >
> > Yes it is - an iPhone XS which has been my key test device for weeks.
> Should I try it on the very latest version of LC? I had a download glitch
> last night so didn?t install it (the joys of rural broadband).
> >
> > Graham
> >
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >> On 22 May 2020, at 11:00, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> ?Hello Graham,
> >>
> >> Is that the same iOS device you used when you could successfully
> >> install the app?
> >>
> >> Kind regards,
> >> Panos
> >> --
> >>
> >>> On Fri, 22 May 2020 at 11:52, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
> >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I?ve been using XCode to load an app into my iPhone for some time now,
> but
> >>> today using LC 9.6.0 rc1, I got this refusal:
> >>>
> >>>> A valid provisioning profile for this executable was not found.
> >>> As far as I?m concerned, I?ve got the same provisioning profile as I
> had a
> >>> few days ago, and it?s  been in the Standalone Settings for the app for
> >>> some time, when this version of LC did several successful updates.
> >>>
> >>> Can anyone suggest what I?ve done wrong?
> >>>
> >>> Graham
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> use-livecode mailing list
> >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >>> subscription preferences:
> >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >>>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> use-livecode mailing list
> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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>


From livfoss at mac.com  Fri May 22 16:14:13 2020
From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel)
Date: Fri, 22 May 2020 22:14:13 +0200
Subject: iOS Provisioning Profile issue
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq84X9jP+g+DL7qN0C9jBCjbiRP3yO_cEyjq92qDN7Uk5g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+JfEq-=UMigjjAqHdQQGWCOW9zvmR3D2KYQL3A9gDwQYiRWLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <65FB4F01-EFEE-4E46-8A44-FCFF21F9E416@mac.com>
 <eb5f3fe2-4b49-1446-740d-cc6253dfba1f@gmail.com>
 <CA+JfEq84X9jP+g+DL7qN0C9jBCjbiRP3yO_cEyjq92qDN7Uk5g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <499ADC16-48EB-4870-B6EF-13B284117766@mac.com>

Thanks Panos - I am truly sorry to have wasted your precious time. The fact is, I am trying to do all this iOS development while keeping to the absolute minimum of knowledge about Apple?s arcane, not to say Byzantine, systems of deployment, approval etc. Thus the terminology about profiles and the reason they come in different flavours has never really sunk in. Indeed I was hoping against hope to avoid it as much as possible. For me, life really is too short.

You have yet again got me out of the soup.

Cheers

Graham

> On 22 May 2020, at 21:31, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Oh, I see. If the provisioning profile is of type "AppStore", then it is a
> Distribution profile, so you will not be able to use this profile for
> installing the app directly to your device.
> 
> You need an iOS Development profile for being able to install the app on
> the device.
> 
> Regards,
> Panos
> 
> On Fri, May 22, 2020, 19:53 JeeJeeStudio via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> AS far as i know this profile lasts for 6 days for development.
>> 
>> Then you have to renew it in Xcode.
>> 
>> Op 22-5-2020 om 12:47 schreef Graham Samuel via use-livecode:
>>> Panos - thanks for asking
>>> 
>>> Yes it is - an iPhone XS which has been my key test device for weeks.
>> Should I try it on the very latest version of LC? I had a download glitch
>> last night so didn?t install it (the joys of rural broadband).
>>> 
>>> Graham
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On 22 May 2020, at 11:00, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> ?Hello Graham,
>>>> 
>>>> Is that the same iOS device you used when you could successfully
>>>> install the app?
>>>> 
>>>> Kind regards,
>>>> Panos
>>>> --
>>>> 
>>>>> On Fri, 22 May 2020 at 11:52, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I?ve been using XCode to load an app into my iPhone for some time now,
>> but
>>>>> today using LC 9.6.0 rc1, I got this refusal:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> A valid provisioning profile for this executable was not found.
>>>>> As far as I?m concerned, I?ve got the same provisioning profile as I
>> had a
>>>>> few days ago, and it?s  been in the Standalone Settings for the app for
>>>>> some time, when this version of LC did several successful updates.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Can anyone suggest what I?ve done wrong?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Graham
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From livfoss at mac.com  Fri May 22 16:25:59 2020
From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel)
Date: Fri, 22 May 2020 22:25:59 +0200
Subject: LC 9.6.0 RC1 Splash/Launch Images
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq9N+LVFBtyWK8cgew8jgoG-m8b6=oCSwP9sP2+DVPAHfg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6EA5970F-3F53-4A02-BFDF-5ED10E403C85@mac.com>
 <002BA43B-F6E1-44F9-BA5C-197C8763E65C@mac.com>
 <CA+JfEq8fF1hsi92cQyvmkuamy_nL9cPJdCG1Dcort+abFChneg@mail.gmail.com>
 <D1511D2A-0143-4B4C-ABC0-2DC8275C8E57@gmail.com>
 <CA+JfEq8J2eEvb1JkYtHV7WT9xonm_3zLYrLikvET4CPnSFbo2w@mail.gmail.com>
 <D3E19517-E5BA-4BD2-944C-F146E30885B1@mac.com>
 <CA+JfEq9N+LVFBtyWK8cgew8jgoG-m8b6=oCSwP9sP2+DVPAHfg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F4563A33-F3C8-42DC-84C9-24EAFF0B938A@mac.com>

My x3 splash is already smaller than the largest real requirement for an iPhone, 1242 x 2688. Mine is only 2048 x 2732. So you could argue that my x3 splash should be even larger than I?ve supplied.

I don?t see why the system doesn?t pick the smallest size that will fit - so for my iPhone XS for example, which needs 1125x2436 for an exact fit, I have supplied my x2 splash at exactly the right size. 

I realise this is not desperately important, especially as I can adopt Andrew?s solution below, but there does seem to be something wrong here. It will be interesting to read the LC lesson on this when it comes out!

Graham

> On 22 May 2020, at 18:41, Andrew at MidWest Coast Media via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I had the same problem when creating storyboards: the icon was too big. My app was portrait so I could tell the dimensions were backwards, but when using the the recommended sizes the logo ran off the edges. Placing the 1x version in the 2x slot (and the 2x in the 3x slot) seemed to make things look more like what I expected.
> 
> Making the first card of the stack have the same background color as the Storyboard worked fine, then just...
> unlock screen for visual effect
> go next card
> unlock screen with visual effect ?dissolve? very fast
> 
> ?Andrew Bell


> On 22 May 2020, at 14:48, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> *>>>>>LC 9.6.0 rc1 reported that I hadn?t provided a portrait splash screen
> for iPad*
> 
> Yes, this is a bug in LC 9.6 RC-1, which is fixed in LC 9.6 RC-2.
> 
> *>>>>>and the Simulator showed the splash screen too large for the screen
> of the device *
> 
> Hmm, then I would expect the splash to show too large in the physical
> device as well. In this case, I would try with a smaller splash.
> 
> Kind regards,
> Panos
> --
> 
> On Fri, 22 May 2020 at 15:25, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> I did that, so fine, but noticed two issues: when making the standalone LC
>> 9.6.0 rc1 reported that I hadn?t provided a portrait splash screen for
>> iPad, when in fact there is no way of doing so since the storyboard change;
>> and the Simulator showed the splash screen too large for the screen of the
>> device (an iPhone XS). (Not sure if the real app does that as I?m having
>> trouble uploading - that?s a different conversation.)
>> 
>> Graham
>> 
>>> On 22 May 2020, at 13:51, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Just realised that the image sizes I suggested are for landscape, so if
>>> your app uses portrait, just swap the width with the height.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Sun, 17 May 2020 at 21:35, Colin Holgate via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> What I?ve done for a while is to use a flat color that is the average of
>>>> the colors in the actual title screen. The splash screen is not around
>> for
>>>> very long, and with there being lots of different sizes required, a
>>>> detailed splash screen could possibly take up 50 MB of app side, for the
>>>> sake of a fraction of a second.
>>>> 
>>>> In the best case it feels like the title screen faded into view. In
>> fact,
>>>> you could do that, quickly fade in from a matching flat background
>> color.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On May 17, 2020, at 10:58 AM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hello Graham,
>>>>> 
>>>>> The new storyboard mechanism has some restrictions as it is (we might
>>>>> enhance it in the future)
>>>>> 
>>>>> For example it is no longer possible to have an exact (pixel) matching
>> of
>>>>> the splash screen and the first card of the stack as it appears on the
>>>>> device
>>>>> 
>>>>> So the best suggestion now is to use a splash image that has just a
>> logo
>>>> at
>>>>> the center and it is transparent, and also to set the background of the
>>>>> splash in the standalone settings.
>>>>> 
>>>>> In that way, in all devices (ipads/iphones) you will get a centered
>> logo
>>>>> with the background you set in the standalone settings (or you can
>> choose
>>>>> to not set the background - in this case the default background color
>>>> will
>>>>> be used depending on the device appearance: white if the device is on
>>>> light
>>>>> mode and black if the device is on dark mode)
>>>>> 
>>>>> Of course, if you do not wish to have a splash that shows just a logo,
>>>> you
>>>>> can choose a regular image (or 3 regular images, one for each 1x,2x,3x
>>>>> slots) and also set the background color to match the image background
>>>>> color. In this case, depending of the device, the app will use the one
>> of
>>>>> the three images that is closer to the device screen size, and will
>>>> center
>>>>> this image to the screen.
>>>>> 
>>>>> This means that the image in some devices will either match exactly, or
>>>> it
>>>>> will be larger (in this case it will be cropped and the edges will not
>>>>> show), or it will be smaller (in this case it will be centered at the
>>>>> device screen, and the left/top/right/bottom areas will show the
>>>> background
>>>>> color that was set in the standalone settings.
>>>>> 
>>>>> One might ask, what size should the images be then? Well, it depends on
>>>> the
>>>>> images (i.e. how much content they have at the center, and if you are
>> OK
>>>> if
>>>>> some of the content at the edges is cropped etc). A rule of thumb - as
>> I
>>>>> understand it - is the following:
>>>>> 
>>>>> -use a "small", a "medium" and a "large" image for each of the 1x, 2x
>> and
>>>>> 3x slots, where "small" is the smallest image you used before the
>>>>> storyboard, "large" is the largest you used before, and "medium" is
>>>>> something in-between.
>>>>> 
>>>>> For example, you could try images with these dimensions:
>>>>> 
>>>>> - 1334x750
>>>>> - 2208x1242 (x2)
>>>>> - 2732x2048 (x3)
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hope this helps.
>>>>> 
>>>>> We will write a lesson for this topic soon.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>> Panos
>>>>> --
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Sat, 16 May 2020 at 17:49, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> This is not to answer my own question, but to emphasise the apparent
>>>>>> difficulty of getting this aspect of creating an iOS app right just by
>>>>>> using just LC and a reasonable graphics editor on a Mac. It means to
>> me
>>>>>> that a lot of careful instructions need to be provided by somebody in
>>>> the
>>>>>> LC universe, since the policy (I sincerely hope!) is to get LC
>>>> developers
>>>>>> to avoid getting deep into XCode. I found this, which frankly scares
>> me.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> https://wiki.starling-framework.org/manual/ios_launch_images
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Can anyone help me to a less nerdy way of getting this right? I don?t
>>>>>> even know what a storyboard is!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Graham
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 16 May 2020, at 00:40, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I see that the iOS Standalone Settings have changed in this version,
>> no
>>>>>> doubt to accommodate Apple?s new rules. One is required to provide six
>>>>>> images as ?Launch Images? under the ?Splash? tab. It seems that
>> there?s
>>>> an
>>>>>> image, a 2x image and a 3x image, and then another three for dark
>> mode.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> There is no tooltip to suggest how large these images should be - in
>>>>>> previous versions they had to be tailored to different device screen
>>>> sizes.
>>>>>> Now it seems anything goes, or does it?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Can anyone explain what the dimensions of these images are supposed
>> to
>>>>>> be? Does ?2x? just mean twice the original size in each direction or
>>>> what?
>>>>>> Can?t see anything in the release notes, but maybe I wasn?t paying
>>>>>> attention.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Graham
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From merakosp at gmail.com  Fri May 22 16:47:30 2020
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Fri, 22 May 2020 23:47:30 +0300
Subject: iOS Provisioning Profile issue
In-Reply-To: <499ADC16-48EB-4870-B6EF-13B284117766@mac.com>
References: <CA+JfEq-=UMigjjAqHdQQGWCOW9zvmR3D2KYQL3A9gDwQYiRWLQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <65FB4F01-EFEE-4E46-8A44-FCFF21F9E416@mac.com>
 <eb5f3fe2-4b49-1446-740d-cc6253dfba1f@gmail.com>
 <CA+JfEq84X9jP+g+DL7qN0C9jBCjbiRP3yO_cEyjq92qDN7Uk5g@mail.gmail.com>
 <499ADC16-48EB-4870-B6EF-13B284117766@mac.com>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq9TqcMueQkCed2keQMoyi+4PLgMX-KCEyakqmyx6P4qAQ@mail.gmail.com>

No problem Graham ;)

Deploying for iOS can be frustrating in the beginning, but once you get
familiar with the requirements, things are not that bad ;)

Cheers,
Panos

On Fri, May 22, 2020, 23:15 Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Thanks Panos - I am truly sorry to have wasted your precious time. The
> fact is, I am trying to do all this iOS development while keeping to the
> absolute minimum of knowledge about Apple?s arcane, not to say Byzantine,
> systems of deployment, approval etc. Thus the terminology about profiles
> and the reason they come in different flavours has never really sunk in.
> Indeed I was hoping against hope to avoid it as much as possible. For me,
> life really is too short.
>
> You have yet again got me out of the soup.
>
> Cheers
>
> Graham
>
> > On 22 May 2020, at 21:31, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Oh, I see. If the provisioning profile is of type "AppStore", then it is
> a
> > Distribution profile, so you will not be able to use this profile for
> > installing the app directly to your device.
> >
> > You need an iOS Development profile for being able to install the app on
> > the device.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Panos
> >
> > On Fri, May 22, 2020, 19:53 JeeJeeStudio via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> >> AS far as i know this profile lasts for 6 days for development.
> >>
> >> Then you have to renew it in Xcode.
> >>
> >> Op 22-5-2020 om 12:47 schreef Graham Samuel via use-livecode:
> >>> Panos - thanks for asking
> >>>
> >>> Yes it is - an iPhone XS which has been my key test device for weeks.
> >> Should I try it on the very latest version of LC? I had a download
> glitch
> >> last night so didn?t install it (the joys of rural broadband).
> >>>
> >>> Graham
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>
> >>>> On 22 May 2020, at 11:00, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <
> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> ?Hello Graham,
> >>>>
> >>>> Is that the same iOS device you used when you could successfully
> >>>> install the app?
> >>>>
> >>>> Kind regards,
> >>>> Panos
> >>>> --
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Fri, 22 May 2020 at 11:52, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
> >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I?ve been using XCode to load an app into my iPhone for some time
> now,
> >> but
> >>>>> today using LC 9.6.0 rc1, I got this refusal:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> A valid provisioning profile for this executable was not found.
> >>>>> As far as I?m concerned, I?ve got the same provisioning profile as I
> >> had a
> >>>>> few days ago, and it?s  been in the Standalone Settings for the app
> for
> >>>>> some time, when this version of LC did several successful updates.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Can anyone suggest what I?ve done wrong?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Graham
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> use-livecode mailing list
> >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >>>>> subscription preferences:
> >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >>>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> use-livecode mailing list
> >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >> subscription preferences:
> >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> use-livecode mailing list
> >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >> subscription preferences:
> >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> use-livecode mailing list
> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >> subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From scott at elementarysoftware.com  Fri May 22 16:51:51 2020
From: scott at elementarysoftware.com (scott at elementarysoftware.com)
Date: Fri, 22 May 2020 13:51:51 -0700
Subject: LC 9.6.0 RC1 Splash/Launch Images
In-Reply-To: <F4563A33-F3C8-42DC-84C9-24EAFF0B938A@mac.com>
References: <6EA5970F-3F53-4A02-BFDF-5ED10E403C85@mac.com>
 <002BA43B-F6E1-44F9-BA5C-197C8763E65C@mac.com>
 <CA+JfEq8fF1hsi92cQyvmkuamy_nL9cPJdCG1Dcort+abFChneg@mail.gmail.com>
 <D1511D2A-0143-4B4C-ABC0-2DC8275C8E57@gmail.com>
 <CA+JfEq8J2eEvb1JkYtHV7WT9xonm_3zLYrLikvET4CPnSFbo2w@mail.gmail.com>
 <D3E19517-E5BA-4BD2-944C-F146E30885B1@mac.com>
 <CA+JfEq9N+LVFBtyWK8cgew8jgoG-m8b6=oCSwP9sP2+DVPAHfg@mail.gmail.com>
 <F4563A33-F3C8-42DC-84C9-24EAFF0B938A@mac.com>
Message-ID: <B89DF4A1-A181-4E91-BE7E-03792D298FC3@elementarysoftware.com>

Hello Graham,

In the Standalone Applications Settings do you have it set to build for iPad as well as iPhone?  I?m not at all experienced with the new splash options or how the setting work together? just an idea.
--
Scott

> On May 22, 2020, at 1:25 PM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> My x3 splash is already smaller than the largest real requirement for an iPhone, 1242 x 2688. Mine is only 2048 x 2732. So you could argue that my x3 splash should be even larger than I?ve supplied.
> 
> I don?t see why the system doesn?t pick the smallest size that will fit - so for my iPhone XS for example, which needs 1125x2436 for an exact fit, I have supplied my x2 splash at exactly the right size. 
> 
> I realise this is not desperately important, especially as I can adopt Andrew?s solution below, but there does seem to be something wrong here. It will be interesting to read the LC lesson on this when it comes out!
> 
> Graham
> 
>> On 22 May 2020, at 18:41, Andrew at MidWest Coast Media via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I had the same problem when creating storyboards: the icon was too big. My app was portrait so I could tell the dimensions were backwards, but when using the the recommended sizes the logo ran off the edges. Placing the 1x version in the 2x slot (and the 2x in the 3x slot) seemed to make things look more like what I expected.
>> 
>> Making the first card of the stack have the same background color as the Storyboard worked fine, then just...
>> unlock screen for visual effect
>> go next card
>> unlock screen with visual effect ?dissolve? very fast
>> 
>> ?Andrew Bell
> 
> 
>> On 22 May 2020, at 14:48, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> *>>>>>LC 9.6.0 rc1 reported that I hadn?t provided a portrait splash screen
>> for iPad*
>> 
>> Yes, this is a bug in LC 9.6 RC-1, which is fixed in LC 9.6 RC-2.
>> 
>> *>>>>>and the Simulator showed the splash screen too large for the screen
>> of the device *
>> 
>> Hmm, then I would expect the splash to show too large in the physical
>> device as well. In this case, I would try with a smaller splash.
>> 
>> Kind regards,
>> Panos
>> --
>> 
>> On Fri, 22 May 2020 at 15:25, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> I did that, so fine, but noticed two issues: when making the standalone LC
>>> 9.6.0 rc1 reported that I hadn?t provided a portrait splash screen for
>>> iPad, when in fact there is no way of doing so since the storyboard change;
>>> and the Simulator showed the splash screen too large for the screen of the
>>> device (an iPhone XS). (Not sure if the real app does that as I?m having
>>> trouble uploading - that?s a different conversation.)
>>> 
>>> Graham
>>> 
>>>> On 22 May 2020, at 13:51, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Just realised that the image sizes I suggested are for landscape, so if
>>>> your app uses portrait, just swap the width with the height.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Sun, 17 May 2020 at 21:35, Colin Holgate via use-livecode <
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> What I?ve done for a while is to use a flat color that is the average of
>>>>> the colors in the actual title screen. The splash screen is not around
>>> for
>>>>> very long, and with there being lots of different sizes required, a
>>>>> detailed splash screen could possibly take up 50 MB of app side, for the
>>>>> sake of a fraction of a second.
>>>>> 
>>>>> In the best case it feels like the title screen faded into view. In
>>> fact,
>>>>> you could do that, quickly fade in from a matching flat background
>>> color.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On May 17, 2020, at 10:58 AM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hello Graham,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The new storyboard mechanism has some restrictions as it is (we might
>>>>>> enhance it in the future)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> For example it is no longer possible to have an exact (pixel) matching
>>> of
>>>>>> the splash screen and the first card of the stack as it appears on the
>>>>>> device
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> So the best suggestion now is to use a splash image that has just a
>>> logo
>>>>> at
>>>>>> the center and it is transparent, and also to set the background of the
>>>>>> splash in the standalone settings.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> In that way, in all devices (ipads/iphones) you will get a centered
>>> logo
>>>>>> with the background you set in the standalone settings (or you can
>>> choose
>>>>>> to not set the background - in this case the default background color
>>>>> will
>>>>>> be used depending on the device appearance: white if the device is on
>>>>> light
>>>>>> mode and black if the device is on dark mode)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Of course, if you do not wish to have a splash that shows just a logo,
>>>>> you
>>>>>> can choose a regular image (or 3 regular images, one for each 1x,2x,3x
>>>>>> slots) and also set the background color to match the image background
>>>>>> color. In this case, depending of the device, the app will use the one
>>> of
>>>>>> the three images that is closer to the device screen size, and will
>>>>> center
>>>>>> this image to the screen.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> This means that the image in some devices will either match exactly, or
>>>>> it
>>>>>> will be larger (in this case it will be cropped and the edges will not
>>>>>> show), or it will be smaller (in this case it will be centered at the
>>>>>> device screen, and the left/top/right/bottom areas will show the
>>>>> background
>>>>>> color that was set in the standalone settings.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> One might ask, what size should the images be then? Well, it depends on
>>>>> the
>>>>>> images (i.e. how much content they have at the center, and if you are
>>> OK
>>>>> if
>>>>>> some of the content at the edges is cropped etc). A rule of thumb - as
>>> I
>>>>>> understand it - is the following:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -use a "small", a "medium" and a "large" image for each of the 1x, 2x
>>> and
>>>>>> 3x slots, where "small" is the smallest image you used before the
>>>>>> storyboard, "large" is the largest you used before, and "medium" is
>>>>>> something in-between.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> For example, you could try images with these dimensions:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> - 1334x750
>>>>>> - 2208x1242 (x2)
>>>>>> - 2732x2048 (x3)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hope this helps.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> We will write a lesson for this topic soon.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>>> Panos
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Sat, 16 May 2020 at 17:49, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> This is not to answer my own question, but to emphasise the apparent
>>>>>>> difficulty of getting this aspect of creating an iOS app right just by
>>>>>>> using just LC and a reasonable graphics editor on a Mac. It means to
>>> me
>>>>>>> that a lot of careful instructions need to be provided by somebody in
>>>>> the
>>>>>>> LC universe, since the policy (I sincerely hope!) is to get LC
>>>>> developers
>>>>>>> to avoid getting deep into XCode. I found this, which frankly scares
>>> me.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> https://wiki.starling-framework.org/manual/ios_launch_images
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Can anyone help me to a less nerdy way of getting this right? I don?t
>>>>>>> even know what a storyboard is!
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Graham
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On 16 May 2020, at 00:40, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
>>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I see that the iOS Standalone Settings have changed in this version,
>>> no
>>>>>>> doubt to accommodate Apple?s new rules. One is required to provide six
>>>>>>> images as ?Launch Images? under the ?Splash? tab. It seems that
>>> there?s
>>>>> an
>>>>>>> image, a 2x image and a 3x image, and then another three for dark
>>> mode.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> There is no tooltip to suggest how large these images should be - in
>>>>>>> previous versions they had to be tailored to different device screen
>>>>> sizes.
>>>>>>> Now it seems anything goes, or does it?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Can anyone explain what the dimensions of these images are supposed
>>> to
>>>>>>> be? Does ?2x? just mean twice the original size in each direction or
>>>>> what?
>>>>>>> Can?t see anything in the release notes, but maybe I wasn?t paying
>>>>>>> attention.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Graham
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>> subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From livfoss at mac.com  Sat May 23 03:41:57 2020
From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel)
Date: Sat, 23 May 2020 09:41:57 +0200
Subject: LC 9.6.0 RC1 Splash/Launch Images
In-Reply-To: <B89DF4A1-A181-4E91-BE7E-03792D298FC3@elementarysoftware.com>
References: <6EA5970F-3F53-4A02-BFDF-5ED10E403C85@mac.com>
 <002BA43B-F6E1-44F9-BA5C-197C8763E65C@mac.com>
 <CA+JfEq8fF1hsi92cQyvmkuamy_nL9cPJdCG1Dcort+abFChneg@mail.gmail.com>
 <D1511D2A-0143-4B4C-ABC0-2DC8275C8E57@gmail.com>
 <CA+JfEq8J2eEvb1JkYtHV7WT9xonm_3zLYrLikvET4CPnSFbo2w@mail.gmail.com>
 <D3E19517-E5BA-4BD2-944C-F146E30885B1@mac.com>
 <CA+JfEq9N+LVFBtyWK8cgew8jgoG-m8b6=oCSwP9sP2+DVPAHfg@mail.gmail.com>
 <F4563A33-F3C8-42DC-84C9-24EAFF0B938A@mac.com>
 <B89DF4A1-A181-4E91-BE7E-03792D298FC3@elementarysoftware.com>
Message-ID: <7ECBB04B-B3C2-4E79-9C23-A03C08B41DDD@mac.com>

No I don?t, because you?re not given the opportunity to do so. I also don?t understand the storyboard idea at all - there are or were some very precise guidelines about splash screens in the Apple documentation (App Store Connect Help). There were certain key sizes and the system was willing to manufacture some intermediate sizes itself, so one ended up with an exact splash screen for every device. Now that?s disappeared, apparently in favour of a three-sizes-fits-all policy that doesn?t seem to be working too well. I suppose the documentation must have changed, so I?ll have to go back and see what they say now. By the way you would at least think that this simplification would make your standalone smaller, but mine?s got a lot bigger (more than twice as big - I can?t think of another reason, but I suppose there must be one).

The app I?m working on is portrait only, and I hadn?t really planned for it to be used on iPads, partly because I?ve never met anyone with a GPS-enabled iPad, and my app depends on GPS. This was a mistake really, as there are probably lots of GPS-enabled ones somewhere in the world. I?ll see what it looks like in the Simulator. If there?s any interesting news, I?ll report back.

Graham

> On 22 May 2020, at 22:51, scott--- via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hello Graham,
> 
> In the Standalone Applications Settings do you have it set to build for iPad as well as iPhone?  I?m not at all experienced with the new splash options or how the setting work together? just an idea.
> --
> Scott
> 
>> On May 22, 2020, at 1:25 PM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> My x3 splash is already smaller than the largest real requirement for an iPhone, 1242 x 2688. Mine is only 2048 x 2732. So you could argue that my x3 splash should be even larger than I?ve supplied.
>> 
>> I don?t see why the system doesn?t pick the smallest size that will fit - so for my iPhone XS for example, which needs 1125x2436 for an exact fit, I have supplied my x2 splash at exactly the right size. 
>> 
>> I realise this is not desperately important, especially as I can adopt Andrew?s solution below, but there does seem to be something wrong here. It will be interesting to read the LC lesson on this when it comes out!
>> 
>> Graham
>> 
>>> On 22 May 2020, at 18:41, Andrew at MidWest Coast Media via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I had the same problem when creating storyboards: the icon was too big. My app was portrait so I could tell the dimensions were backwards, but when using the the recommended sizes the logo ran off the edges. Placing the 1x version in the 2x slot (and the 2x in the 3x slot) seemed to make things look more like what I expected.
>>> 
>>> Making the first card of the stack have the same background color as the Storyboard worked fine, then just...
>>> unlock screen for visual effect
>>> go next card
>>> unlock screen with visual effect ?dissolve? very fast
>>> 
>>> ?Andrew Bell
>> 
>> 
>>> On 22 May 2020, at 14:48, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> *>>>>>LC 9.6.0 rc1 reported that I hadn?t provided a portrait splash screen
>>> for iPad*
>>> 
>>> Yes, this is a bug in LC 9.6 RC-1, which is fixed in LC 9.6 RC-2.
>>> 
>>> *>>>>>and the Simulator showed the splash screen too large for the screen
>>> of the device *
>>> 
>>> Hmm, then I would expect the splash to show too large in the physical
>>> device as well. In this case, I would try with a smaller splash.
>>> 
>>> Kind regards,
>>> Panos
>>> --
>>> 
>>> On Fri, 22 May 2020 at 15:25, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I did that, so fine, but noticed two issues: when making the standalone LC
>>>> 9.6.0 rc1 reported that I hadn?t provided a portrait splash screen for
>>>> iPad, when in fact there is no way of doing so since the storyboard change;
>>>> and the Simulator showed the splash screen too large for the screen of the
>>>> device (an iPhone XS). (Not sure if the real app does that as I?m having
>>>> trouble uploading - that?s a different conversation.)
>>>> 
>>>> Graham
>>>> 
>>>>> On 22 May 2020, at 13:51, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Just realised that the image sizes I suggested are for landscape, so if
>>>>> your app uses portrait, just swap the width with the height.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Sun, 17 May 2020 at 21:35, Colin Holgate via use-livecode <
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> What I?ve done for a while is to use a flat color that is the average of
>>>>>> the colors in the actual title screen. The splash screen is not around
>>>> for
>>>>>> very long, and with there being lots of different sizes required, a
>>>>>> detailed splash screen could possibly take up 50 MB of app side, for the
>>>>>> sake of a fraction of a second.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> In the best case it feels like the title screen faded into view. In
>>>> fact,
>>>>>> you could do that, quickly fade in from a matching flat background
>>>> color.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On May 17, 2020, at 10:58 AM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <
>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hello Graham,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The new storyboard mechanism has some restrictions as it is (we might
>>>>>>> enhance it in the future)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> For example it is no longer possible to have an exact (pixel) matching
>>>> of
>>>>>>> the splash screen and the first card of the stack as it appears on the
>>>>>>> device
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> So the best suggestion now is to use a splash image that has just a
>>>> logo
>>>>>> at
>>>>>>> the center and it is transparent, and also to set the background of the
>>>>>>> splash in the standalone settings.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> In that way, in all devices (ipads/iphones) you will get a centered
>>>> logo
>>>>>>> with the background you set in the standalone settings (or you can
>>>> choose
>>>>>>> to not set the background - in this case the default background color
>>>>>> will
>>>>>>> be used depending on the device appearance: white if the device is on
>>>>>> light
>>>>>>> mode and black if the device is on dark mode)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Of course, if you do not wish to have a splash that shows just a logo,
>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> can choose a regular image (or 3 regular images, one for each 1x,2x,3x
>>>>>>> slots) and also set the background color to match the image background
>>>>>>> color. In this case, depending of the device, the app will use the one
>>>> of
>>>>>>> the three images that is closer to the device screen size, and will
>>>>>> center
>>>>>>> this image to the screen.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> This means that the image in some devices will either match exactly, or
>>>>>> it
>>>>>>> will be larger (in this case it will be cropped and the edges will not
>>>>>>> show), or it will be smaller (in this case it will be centered at the
>>>>>>> device screen, and the left/top/right/bottom areas will show the
>>>>>> background
>>>>>>> color that was set in the standalone settings.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> One might ask, what size should the images be then? Well, it depends on
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> images (i.e. how much content they have at the center, and if you are
>>>> OK
>>>>>> if
>>>>>>> some of the content at the edges is cropped etc). A rule of thumb - as
>>>> I
>>>>>>> understand it - is the following:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -use a "small", a "medium" and a "large" image for each of the 1x, 2x
>>>> and
>>>>>>> 3x slots, where "small" is the smallest image you used before the
>>>>>>> storyboard, "large" is the largest you used before, and "medium" is
>>>>>>> something in-between.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> For example, you could try images with these dimensions:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> - 1334x750
>>>>>>> - 2208x1242 (x2)
>>>>>>> - 2732x2048 (x3)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hope this helps.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> We will write a lesson for this topic soon.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>>>> Panos
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Sat, 16 May 2020 at 17:49, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
>>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> This is not to answer my own question, but to emphasise the apparent
>>>>>>>> difficulty of getting this aspect of creating an iOS app right just by
>>>>>>>> using just LC and a reasonable graphics editor on a Mac. It means to
>>>> me
>>>>>>>> that a lot of careful instructions need to be provided by somebody in
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> LC universe, since the policy (I sincerely hope!) is to get LC
>>>>>> developers
>>>>>>>> to avoid getting deep into XCode. I found this, which frankly scares
>>>> me.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> https://wiki.starling-framework.org/manual/ios_launch_images
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Can anyone help me to a less nerdy way of getting this right? I don?t
>>>>>>>> even know what a storyboard is!
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Graham
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On 16 May 2020, at 00:40, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <
>>>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I see that the iOS Standalone Settings have changed in this version,
>>>> no
>>>>>>>> doubt to accommodate Apple?s new rules. One is required to provide six
>>>>>>>> images as ?Launch Images? under the ?Splash? tab. It seems that
>>>> there?s
>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>> image, a 2x image and a 3x image, and then another three for dark
>>>> mode.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> There is no tooltip to suggest how large these images should be - in
>>>>>>>> previous versions they had to be tailored to different device screen
>>>>>> sizes.
>>>>>>>> Now it seems anything goes, or does it?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Can anyone explain what the dimensions of these images are supposed
>>>> to
>>>>>>>> be? Does ?2x? just mean twice the original size in each direction or
>>>>>> what?
>>>>>>>> Can?t see anything in the release notes, but maybe I wasn?t paying
>>>>>>>> attention.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Graham
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>>>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>>>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>>> subscription preferences:
>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From livfoss at mac.com  Sun May 24 10:54:27 2020
From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel)
Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 16:54:27 +0200
Subject: Test
Message-ID: <11F736BA-F7AA-43AA-B59A-0C0D6CD370C5@mac.com>

This is a test. Please ignore.

Sent from my iPhone



From dfepstein at comcast.net  Sun May 24 13:28:12 2020
From: dfepstein at comcast.net (David Epstein)
Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 13:28:12 -0400
Subject: Saving stacks before closing
Message-ID: <290B8B71-F1EA-4E97-A477-EE65C69B364F@comcast.net>

I want to give the user a choice of whether to save changes before closing a stack.  To script this, I will handle the closeStackRequest message, and find a way to keep track of whether the stack in question has been changed since it was last saved.

What I am trying to figure out is under what circumstances LiveCode takes care of this without my scripting it.  In the LiveCode IDE, trying to close an unsaved stack seems automatically to ask me whether I want to save changes (but I have not found a handler in the backscripts that implements this).  This is true of stacks I have created with the IDE ?new stack? tool and then try to close.  Is it also true of stacks I have created by script?  

And what happens in a standalone?  Does this feature still work there?

In short, do I need to script an option to save changed stacks before closing, or can I rely on LiveCode to take care of this?

Many thanks.

David Epstein


From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com  Mon May 25 06:48:12 2020
From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Drs Mark Schonewille)
Date: Mon, 25 May 2020 12:48:12 +0200
Subject: Saving stacks before closing
In-Reply-To: <290B8B71-F1EA-4E97-A477-EE65C69B364F@comcast.net>
References: <290B8B71-F1EA-4E97-A477-EE65C69B364F@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <af11a4f5-2e11-3723-3847-f9d1c5fb0be4@economy-x-talk.com>

In LiveCode, usually you're asked to save a stack, even if you didn't 
change it.

The reason is that the property that indicates that the stack has been 
changed, is set to true when a field gets focus. A field gets focus 
whenever a stacks comes to front. When a stack is closed, it needs to 
come to the front :-)

On Mac this issue is worse than on Windows.

In standalones, you need to take care of this yourself. I'm sure you can 
do a better job than LiveCode, particularly if you can limit your app
 ? to specific changes.

Mark Schonewille
Economy-x-Talk
https://ecxtalk.nl
https://www.nt2.nu

Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner
http://www3.economy-x-talk.com/file.php?node=programming-livecode-for-the-real-beginner

Op 24-5-2020 om 19:28 schreef David Epstein via use-livecode:
> I want to give the user a choice of whether to save changes before closing a stack.  To script this, I will handle the closeStackRequest message, and find a way to keep track of whether the stack in question has been changed since it was last saved.
>
> What I am trying to figure out is under what circumstances LiveCode takes care of this without my scripting it.  In the LiveCode IDE, trying to close an unsaved stack seems automatically to ask me whether I want to save changes (but I have not found a handler in the backscripts that implements this).  This is true of stacks I have created with the IDE ?new stack? tool and then try to close.  Is it also true of stacks I have created by script?
>
> And what happens in a standalone?  Does this feature still work there?
>
> In short, do I need to script an option to save changed stacks before closing, or can I rely on LiveCode to take care of this?
>
> Many thanks.
>
> David Epstein
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From panos.merakos at livecode.com  Mon May 25 09:12:03 2020
From: panos.merakos at livecode.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Mon, 25 May 2020 16:12:03 +0300
Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 227
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq-9_-oLF+4W6x9XPHf6DuGNz2dNHNS6kQfhCQOM=eGgOw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

Read about new developments in LiveCode open source and the open source
community in today's edition of the "This Week in LiveCode" newsletter!

        Read issue #227 here: https://bit.ly/2zsHqMO

This is a weekly newsletter about LiveCode, focussing on what's been
going on in and around the open source project. New issues will be
released weekly on Mondays. We have a dedicated mailing list that will
deliver each issue directly to you e-mail, so you don't miss any!

If you have anything you'd like mentioned (a project, a discussion
somewhere, an upcoming event) then please get in touch.


-- 
Panagiotis Merakos <panos.merakos at livecode.com>
LiveCode Software Developer

Everyone Can Create Apps <https://livecode.com>


From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Mon May 25 14:40:28 2020
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Mon, 25 May 2020 14:40:28 -0400
Subject: ANN: glx2 script editor 4.1
In-Reply-To: <70ef12b6-7901-53c8-035f-e8826e556391@sonic.net>
References: <70ef12b6-7901-53c8-035f-e8826e556391@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <CADCoycMC9MbKnmDKBpodzXL_u+PZkSpi5Z5PwaLdYk+gfAvvWw@mail.gmail.com>

thanks, mark.

On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 11:31 PM Mark Wieder via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I have moved the repository from bitbucket to github because reasons.
>
> This is the latest build. It's now at glx2ScriptEditor version 4.1.
> Release notes and a documentation wiki are on the github site.
> It's had a pretty rigorous shakedown cruise lately on osx, windows, and
> linux and is now the editor I use on a daily basis.
>
> https://github.com/mwieder/glx2ScriptEditor
>
> --
>   Mark Wieder
>   ahsoftware at gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."


From livfoss at mac.com  Mon May 25 16:57:25 2020
From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel)
Date: Mon, 25 May 2020 22:57:25 +0200
Subject: Map Widget - how does it actually work?
Message-ID: <34AD2C54-7C6E-4796-AEF7-8C7BCE2E9A06@mac.com>

Back to my problems with inadequate documentation on widgets. The Map widget is probably very powerful, but the Dictionary entry simple tells you the names of the parameters. I can?t work out anything about the format of the data you can feed in, or what it looks like when it comes out. There isn?t even enough info to start a meaningful experiment, IMHO.

Does anyone know of a source of helpful documentation on this? I am as ever interested in the iOS version.

Thanks for any info.

Graham


From mkoob at rogers.com  Mon May 25 18:05:56 2020
From: mkoob at rogers.com (Martin Koob)
Date: Mon, 25 May 2020 18:05:56 -0400
Subject: Integrating Desktop or mobile application with LMS using LTI 1.3 
References: <5013068A-C3D7-449D-87B8-19B626F20ECA.ref@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <5013068A-C3D7-449D-87B8-19B626F20ECA@rogers.com>

Hi list

I have been researching how to integrate a desktop application created with LiveCode with a learning Management system (LMS) like Brightspace by D2L, Moodle, Canvas etc.  Last time I looked at this SCORM was the standard with TinCan( aka xAPI) as a potential successor.   This time around I found those seem to have been  superseded by LTI 1.1  going to LTI 1.3.

In the documents I have found I see that one of the advantages of LTI 1.3 is that it can be used with desktop and mobile apps.  LTI 1.1 only worked with web based applications.

" Mobile Ready?The model is independent of web browsers, a better solution for server-to-server, native desktop and mobile applications.?
https://www.imsglobal.org/why-platforms-and-tools-should-adopt-lti-13 <https://www.imsglobal.org/why-platforms-and-tools-should-adopt-lti-13>

I am looking for examples of people doing this but have not found any online.(I don?t want to spend time on idly ddl  I looks like it would be possible to use it in an LiveCode application.  It uses oAuth 2 for authentication and JSON for messages both of which are available on the the latest version of LiveCode.

First I just want to confirm it has been done for a desktop application in general so I know that is a viable approach for integrating an App into an LMS.

Second I wonder if people have done it using LiveCode.

Thanks



Martin Koob



From bogdanoff at me.com  Mon May 25 18:28:51 2020
From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff)
Date: Mon, 25 May 2020 15:28:51 -0700
Subject: Integrating Desktop or mobile application with LMS using LTI 1.3
In-Reply-To: <5013068A-C3D7-449D-87B8-19B626F20ECA@rogers.com>
References: <5013068A-C3D7-449D-87B8-19B626F20ECA.ref@rogers.com>
 <5013068A-C3D7-449D-87B8-19B626F20ECA@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <A9B6B54F-E3CF-4E7F-BFBA-DEE050199382@me.com>

Hi Martin,

I?ve just begun looking into this myself, so I?m also interested in what anybody knows about this.

Peter Bogdanoff
ArtsInteractive


> On May 25, 2020, at 3:05 PM, Martin Koob via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi list
> 
> I have been researching how to integrate a desktop application created with LiveCode with a learning Management system (LMS) like Brightspace by D2L, Moodle, Canvas etc.  Last time I looked at this SCORM was the standard with TinCan( aka xAPI) as a potential successor.   This time around I found those seem to have been  superseded by LTI 1.1  going to LTI 1.3.
> 
> In the documents I have found I see that one of the advantages of LTI 1.3 is that it can be used with desktop and mobile apps.  LTI 1.1 only worked with web based applications.
> 
> " Mobile Ready?The model is independent of web browsers, a better solution for server-to-server, native desktop and mobile applications.?
> https://www.imsglobal.org/why-platforms-and-tools-should-adopt-lti-13 <https://www.imsglobal.org/why-platforms-and-tools-should-adopt-lti-13>
> 
> I am looking for examples of people doing this but have not found any online.(I don?t want to spend time on idly ddl  I looks like it would be possible to use it in an LiveCode application.  It uses oAuth 2 for authentication and JSON for messages both of which are available on the the latest version of LiveCode.
> 
> First I just want to confirm it has been done for a desktop application in general so I know that is a viable approach for integrating an App into an LMS.
> 
> Second I wonder if people have done it using LiveCode.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> Martin Koob
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From alex at tweedly.net  Mon May 25 20:39:15 2020
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Tue, 26 May 2020 01:39:15 +0100
Subject: Map Widget - how does it actually work?
In-Reply-To: <34AD2C54-7C6E-4796-AEF7-8C7BCE2E9A06@mac.com>
References: <34AD2C54-7C6E-4796-AEF7-8C7BCE2E9A06@mac.com>
Message-ID: <ffc4cb3e-f49e-9616-1c02-0fb7dade5712@tweedly.net>

Well, the big advantage of widgets is that you can look at the source 
code. As it says in the Livecode Lesson ( 
http://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1005132-how-do-i-modify-a-livecode-widget 
),

> What do you do if a LiveCode widget is missing a property or message 
> you need?
>
> The source code for all the widgets provided 'out of the box' is 
> accessible so you can take those widgets as a base and improve and 
> extended them as you need.
>
Unfortunately, there is a non-obvious meaning to "out of the box" - what 
it means is "source code for all the widgets provided 'out of the box' 
*in the community version* is accessible ..."

So, sadly, you can't just go look at the source code to find out what 
you need.

However, in the dictionary under "Guide" you can find some more info / 
example about the map widget. In particular, it defines the format used 
for? region, coordinates, span and markers - which is probably all that 
you need (I think all the others parameters in the API are booleans).

Disclaimer: I have never used the map widget - everything I say here is 
taken at face value from the doc and the visible files within the widget 
folder of 9.6.0(rc1)

Alex.

On 25/05/2020 21:57, Graham Samuel via use-livecode wrote:
> Back to my problems with inadequate documentation on widgets. The Map widget is probably very powerful, but the Dictionary entry simple tells you the names of the parameters. I can?t work out anything about the format of the data you can feed in, or what it looks like when it comes out. There isn?t even enough info to start a meaningful experiment, IMHO.
>
> Does anyone know of a source of helpful documentation on this? I am as ever interested in the iOS version.
>
> Thanks for any info.
>
> Graham
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From ahsoftware at sonic.net  Mon May 25 21:39:04 2020
From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Mon, 25 May 2020 18:39:04 -0700
Subject: Map Widget - how does it actually work?
In-Reply-To: <ffc4cb3e-f49e-9616-1c02-0fb7dade5712@tweedly.net>
References: <34AD2C54-7C6E-4796-AEF7-8C7BCE2E9A06@mac.com>
 <ffc4cb3e-f49e-9616-1c02-0fb7dade5712@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <52846f28-dfb8-9133-1754-a2b4dd562b4e@sonic.net>

On 5/25/20 5:39 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote:

>> The source code for all the widgets provided 'out of the box' is 
>> accessible so you can take those widgets as a base and improve and 
>> extended them as you need.
>>
> Unfortunately, there is a non-obvious meaning to "out of the box" - what 
> it means is "source code for all the widgets provided 'out of the box' 
> *in the community version* is accessible ..."
> 
> So, sadly, you can't just go look at the source code to find out what 
> you need.

The manifest xml file for the map widget lists its license as 
"community", which seems wrong. However, *every* extension has a license 
of "community", which seems wronger still. I don't see any way to set 
that, so it must be an extension builder "feature".

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From andre at andregarzia.com  Tue May 26 09:57:47 2020
From: andre at andregarzia.com (Andre Garzia)
Date: Tue, 26 May 2020 14:57:47 +0100
Subject: ANN: glx2 script editor 4.1
In-Reply-To: <70ef12b6-7901-53c8-035f-e8826e556391@sonic.net>
References: <70ef12b6-7901-53c8-035f-e8826e556391@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <CAF3jwT=f91XQBrHLYxiMsYkZpYeudtBOXVo9T9yELBe1FeTi0Q@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks a lot for the hard work! :D

On Fri, 22 May 2020 at 04:32, Mark Wieder via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I have moved the repository from bitbucket to github because reasons.
>
> This is the latest build. It's now at glx2ScriptEditor version 4.1.
> Release notes and a documentation wiki are on the github site.
> It's had a pretty rigorous shakedown cruise lately on osx, windows, and
> linux and is now the editor I use on a daily basis.
>
> https://github.com/mwieder/glx2ScriptEditor
>
> --
>   Mark Wieder
>   ahsoftware at gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
http://www.andregarzia.com


From livecode at pink.guru  Tue May 26 10:07:43 2020
From: livecode at pink.guru (Greg "Pink" Miller)
Date: Tue, 26 May 2020 10:07:43 -0400
Subject: Contacting the on-rev team
Message-ID: <CAEKxix=+iF9DoCg0DRr-ZQUc0sBUdyCKQhwdyKwwBEKPRaDD4Q@mail.gmail.com>

Anyone know a good way of getting ahold of the on-rev support team?

I tried emailing support at on-rev.com and webmaster at on-rev.com and both
bounced.

(I need ModRewrite enabled)


From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Tue May 26 10:16:26 2020
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Tue, 26 May 2020 16:16:26 +0200
Subject: Contacting the on-rev team
In-Reply-To: <CAEKxix=+iF9DoCg0DRr-ZQUc0sBUdyCKQhwdyKwwBEKPRaDD4Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEKxix=+iF9DoCg0DRr-ZQUc0sBUdyCKQhwdyKwwBEKPRaDD4Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20CE9900-0714-4EBB-90B6-10B200BEA2E7@m-r-d.de>

You could try 

on-rev at runrev.com

At least that is the address the support emails are coming from.


-
Matthias Rebbe
Life Is Too Short For Boring Code

> Am 26.05.2020 um 16:07 schrieb Greg Pink Miller via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Anyone know a good way of getting ahold of the on-rev support team?
> 
> I tried emailing support at on-rev.com and webmaster at on-rev.com and both
> bounced.
> 
> (I need ModRewrite enabled)
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From msiskin at andrew.cmu.edu  Tue May 26 10:23:09 2020
From: msiskin at andrew.cmu.edu (Marc Siskin)
Date: Tue, 26 May 2020 14:23:09 +0000
Subject: Contacting the on-rev team
In-Reply-To: <CAEKxix=+iF9DoCg0DRr-ZQUc0sBUdyCKQhwdyKwwBEKPRaDD4Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEKxix=+iF9DoCg0DRr-ZQUc0sBUdyCKQhwdyKwwBEKPRaDD4Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <278034F4-6859-4D5B-A22F-AB071385AD88@andrew.cmu.edu>

Greg,

Try going to https://livecode.com/hosting/support/ and fill out the form at the bottom of the page.

Marc Siskin


On May 26, 2020, at 10:07 AM, Greg Pink Miller via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com<mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>> wrote:

Anyone know a good way of getting ahold of the on-rev support team?

I tried emailing support at on-rev.com<mailto:support at on-rev.com> and webmaster at on-rev.com<mailto:webmaster at on-rev.com> and both
bounced.

(I need ModRewrite enabled)
_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com<mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

---------------
Marc Siskin
Manager, Modern Language Resource Center
Carnegie Mellon University
msiskin at andrew.cmu.edu<mailto:msiskin at andrew.cmu.edu>







From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Tue May 26 10:35:35 2020
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Tue, 26 May 2020 10:35:35 -0400
Subject: lc vs macos vs xc vs ios table
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycPE0niE7tDsae7vainyrwhTpk1h8b9ih9Ne4=8_OY2uVw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADCoycPE0niE7tDsae7vainyrwhTpk1h8b9ih9Ne4=8_OY2uVw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADCoycPpsVu4jp9nKfY0zFLRcab=+3YJ0GAs9ya0bCU1776wFQ@mail.gmail.com>

here's an interesting note for me the next time I'm in a panic over an
annual build:
XC prior to 11 won't run on catalina (maybe 10 will, so maybe pretend I
said "10" back there).  On your machine, you'll see the circle-slash
through the icon for xcode 9.x, which means apps that you built with LC 8.x
aren't going to get their annual rebuild if you don't hold your breath and
move to LC 9, right?
Nope.  It turns out you can still build in catalina with LC 8.x and XC9.
You just can't run XC9.  That was a pleasant surprise after doing our
annual rebuild broke one of our apps on "older" (2018 era) ipads that are
stuck in ios 9.x
***BUT*** that build config causes the app to fail on newer versions of ios.

On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 3:41 PM Mike Kerner <MikeKerner at roadrunner.com>
wrote:

> do we have a table somewhere on which versions can be connected?
> i just tried to rebuild one of our apps for the annual app-build-of-doom,
> and discovered that:
> i can't seem to build for ios 9.3.5 (some older ipads), because i need to
> run xcode 11 on catalina.  on 9.3.5 the app flashes white and then crashes
> out.  on newer ipads, the app runs fine.
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>    and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."


From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net  Tue May 26 10:39:53 2020
From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola)
Date: Tue, 26 May 2020 10:39:53 -0400
Subject: Contacting the on-rev team
In-Reply-To: <278034F4-6859-4D5B-A22F-AB071385AD88@andrew.cmu.edu>
References: <CAEKxix=+iF9DoCg0DRr-ZQUc0sBUdyCKQhwdyKwwBEKPRaDD4Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <278034F4-6859-4D5B-A22F-AB071385AD88@andrew.cmu.edu>
Message-ID: <006501d6336b$87b4f930$971eeb90$@net>

When use the hosting support page(link below) I typically get a response
within 15-30 minutes(most times 10 minutes or less) for "emergency requests"
and Robin/Heather are on it immediately.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdimola at evergreeninfo.net

-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf
Of Marc Siskin via use-livecode
Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2020 10:23 AM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: Marc Siskin
Subject: Re: Contacting the on-rev team

Greg,

Try going to https://livecode.com/hosting/support/ and fill out the form at
the bottom of the page.

Marc Siskin


On May 26, 2020, at 10:07 AM, Greg Pink Miller via use-livecode
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com<mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>> wrote:

Anyone know a good way of getting ahold of the on-rev support team?

I tried emailing support at on-rev.com<mailto:support at on-rev.com> and
webmaster at on-rev.com<mailto:webmaster at on-rev.com> and both bounced.

(I need ModRewrite enabled)
_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com<mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode

---------------
Marc Siskin
Manager, Modern Language Resource Center Carnegie Mellon University
msiskin at andrew.cmu.edu<mailto:msiskin at andrew.cmu.edu>





_______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From heather at livecode.com  Tue May 26 11:02:17 2020
From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine)
Date: Tue, 26 May 2020 16:02:17 +0100
Subject: Contacting the on-rev team
In-Reply-To: <006501d6336b$87b4f930$971eeb90$@net>
References: <CAEKxix=+iF9DoCg0DRr-ZQUc0sBUdyCKQhwdyKwwBEKPRaDD4Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <278034F4-6859-4D5B-A22F-AB071385AD88@andrew.cmu.edu>
 <006501d6336b$87b4f930$971eeb90$@net>
Message-ID: <87505943-A8BB-499F-A9D6-84CF42FF46E2@livecode.com>

Just to complete the options, the official email address for hosting support these days is livecodehosting at livecode.com <mailto:livecodehosting at livecode.com>. But as Matthias said, the old email will still work. You can use the support form on the website. You can even email support at livecode.com <mailto:support at livecode.com> and we'll redirect you. 

Best Regards,

Heather

Heather Laine
Customer Services Manager
LiveCode Ltd
www.livecode.com



> On 26 May 2020, at 15:39, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> When use the hosting support page(link below) I typically get a response
> within 15-30 minutes(most times 10 minutes or less) for "emergency requests"
> and Robin/Heather are on it immediately.
> 
> Ralph DiMola
> IT Director
> Evergreen Information Services
> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf
> Of Marc Siskin via use-livecode
> Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2020 10:23 AM
> To: How to use LiveCode
> Cc: Marc Siskin
> Subject: Re: Contacting the on-rev team
> 
> Greg,
> 
> Try going to https://livecode.com/hosting/support/ and fill out the form at
> the bottom of the page.
> 
> Marc Siskin
> 
> 
> On May 26, 2020, at 10:07 AM, Greg Pink Miller via use-livecode
> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com<mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>> wrote:
> 
> Anyone know a good way of getting ahold of the on-rev support team?
> 
> I tried emailing support at on-rev.com<mailto:support at on-rev.com> and
> webmaster at on-rev.com<mailto:webmaster at on-rev.com> and both bounced.
> 
> (I need ModRewrite enabled)
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com<mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> ---------------
> Marc Siskin
> Manager, Modern Language Resource Center Carnegie Mellon University
> msiskin at andrew.cmu.edu<mailto:msiskin at andrew.cmu.edu>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From livfoss at mac.com  Tue May 26 12:01:07 2020
From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel)
Date: Tue, 26 May 2020 18:01:07 +0200
Subject: Map Widget - how does it actually work?
In-Reply-To: <ffc4cb3e-f49e-9616-1c02-0fb7dade5712@tweedly.net>
References: <34AD2C54-7C6E-4796-AEF7-8C7BCE2E9A06@mac.com>
 <ffc4cb3e-f49e-9616-1c02-0fb7dade5712@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <6628F23B-AF37-457D-BE77-23010DAB74D8@mac.com>

Thanks Alex - that?s solid gold! I might even be able to use the widget, though perhaps not for what I intended which was to draw a route consisting of a series of standard Lat-Lon coordinates, in other words a very large number of linked polylines. This is a tentative conclusion, so probably wrong.

This is the first time I?ve realised that the Guide you get when you click on ?Dictionary? in the LC menu is different from the ?User Guide? which you can access via the same menu. I haven?t got time to find out the differences, but I note that ?Map Widget? appears in one and not the other. Or am I wrong? Try searching  the "LiveCode 9.6.0-rc-2 User Guide 5/19/20? and see what you get.

Graham


> On 26 May 2020, at 02:39, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> However, in the dictionary under "Guide" you can find some more info / example about the map widget. In particular, it defines the format used for  region, coordinates, span and markers - which is probably all that you need (I think all the others parameters in the API are booleans).




From Bernd.Niggemann at uni-wh.de  Tue May 26 13:18:27 2020
From: Bernd.Niggemann at uni-wh.de (Niggemann, Bernd)
Date: Tue, 26 May 2020 17:18:27 +0000
Subject: Map Widget - how does it actually work?
Message-ID: <7C532ED9-CA4D-4806-AE7F-206B80AE0B28@uni-wh.de>

Unfortunately polylines stoppt working in recent versions of LC

https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22377

Kind regards
Bernd



From livfoss at mac.com  Tue May 26 13:48:23 2020
From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel)
Date: Tue, 26 May 2020 19:48:23 +0200
Subject: Map Widget - how does it actually work?
In-Reply-To: <7C532ED9-CA4D-4806-AE7F-206B80AE0B28@uni-wh.de>
References: <7C532ED9-CA4D-4806-AE7F-206B80AE0B28@uni-wh.de>
Message-ID: <FD6EED94-271F-4CCE-86DC-E4FD9E1F384F@mac.com>

Thanks Bernard. I shall shelve my map utility until I notice the bug is fixed.

Graham

> On 26 May 2020, at 19:18, Niggemann, Bernd via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Unfortunately polylines stoppt working in recent versions of LC
> 
> https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22377
> 
> Kind regards
> Bernd
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Tue May 26 15:07:01 2020
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond)
Date: Tue, 26 May 2020 22:07:01 +0300
Subject: Licencing files for LC 9.6.0 rc-2
Message-ID: <2abb484a-eed3-bbae-479d-598fae227b3d@gmail.com>

Offline activation files for LC 9.6.0 rc-2 don't seem to be available?



From dan at clearvisiontech.com  Tue May 26 18:56:19 2020
From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman)
Date: Tue, 26 May 2020 22:56:19 +0000
Subject: ADA Compliency
Message-ID: <93E5E883-75AC-42AA-8FC8-CB616516E788@clearvisiontech.com>

Has anyone done anything in regards to ADA compliancy in mobile apps built with LiveCode?   Using the apple or android accessibility tools such as Screen reading, for example. 

-Dan


From waprothero at gmail.com  Tue May 26 19:33:46 2020
From: waprothero at gmail.com (William Prothero)
Date: Tue, 26 May 2020 16:33:46 -0700
Subject: Integrating Desktop or mobile application with LMS using LTI 1.3
In-Reply-To: <A9B6B54F-E3CF-4E7F-BFBA-DEE050199382@me.com>
References: <5013068A-C3D7-449D-87B8-19B626F20ECA.ref@rogers.com>
 <5013068A-C3D7-449D-87B8-19B626F20ECA@rogers.com>
 <A9B6B54F-E3CF-4E7F-BFBA-DEE050199382@me.com>
Message-ID: <9129BC2A-3814-4205-ADCD-CE9732B90E43@gmail.com>

Martin and Peter:
I am retired, but still creating one (big) educational application. I thought the LMS integration idea had died a death by silence, so I am so glad you are looking into this. I?m very interested, but have not put forth any effort in this direction.

Please keep me informed about what you find.
Best,
Bill

William A. Prothero
https://earthlearningsolutions.org

> On May 25, 2020, at 3:28 PM, Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Martin,
> 
> I?ve just begun looking into this myself, so I?m also interested in what anybody knows about this.
> 
> Peter Bogdanoff
> ArtsInteractive
> 
> 
>> On May 25, 2020, at 3:05 PM, Martin Koob via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi list
>> 
>> I have been researching how to integrate a desktop application created with LiveCode with a learning Management system (LMS) like Brightspace by D2L, Moodle, Canvas etc.  Last time I looked at this SCORM was the standard with TinCan( aka xAPI) as a potential successor.   This time around I found those seem to have been  superseded by LTI 1.1  going to LTI 1.3.
>> 
>> In the documents I have found I see that one of the advantages of LTI 1.3 is that it can be used with desktop and mobile apps.  LTI 1.1 only worked with web based applications.
>> 
>> " Mobile Ready?The model is independent of web browsers, a better solution for server-to-server, native desktop and mobile applications.?
>> https://www.imsglobal.org/why-platforms-and-tools-should-adopt-lti-13 <https://www.imsglobal.org/why-platforms-and-tools-should-adopt-lti-13>
>> 
>> I am looking for examples of people doing this but have not found any online.(I don?t want to spend time on idly ddl  I looks like it would be possible to use it in an LiveCode application.  It uses oAuth 2 for authentication and JSON for messages both of which are available on the the latest version of LiveCode.
>> 
>> First I just want to confirm it has been done for a desktop application in general so I know that is a viable approach for integrating an App into an LMS.
>> 
>> Second I wonder if people have done it using LiveCode.
>> 
>> Thanks
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Martin Koob
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Tue May 26 19:38:19 2020
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Tue, 26 May 2020 16:38:19 -0700
Subject: lc vs macos vs xc vs ios table
In-Reply-To: <CADCoycPpsVu4jp9nKfY0zFLRcab=+3YJ0GAs9ya0bCU1776wFQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADCoycPpsVu4jp9nKfY0zFLRcab=+3YJ0GAs9ya0bCU1776wFQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <eaf92691-d7c1-3248-7fb1-379a658fd0ec@fourthworld.com>

So many discussions of which build goes with which version of this 
component and that OS and workarounds for chains of dependencies...

Is this really as good as it gets when using a non-Apple dev tool?

Anyone here build iOS apps in anything other than LC or XCode - is 
everything out there this complicated?

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems


Mike Kerner wrote:
> here's an interesting note for me the next time I'm in a panic over an
> annual build:
> XC prior to 11 won't run on catalina (maybe 10 will, so maybe pretend I
> said "10" back there).  On your machine, you'll see the circle-slash
> through the icon for xcode 9.x, which means apps that you built with LC 8.x
> aren't going to get their annual rebuild if you don't hold your breath and
> move to LC 9, right?
> Nope.  It turns out you can still build in catalina with LC 8.x and XC9.
> You just can't run XC9.  That was a pleasant surprise after doing our
> annual rebuild broke one of our apps on "older" (2018 era) ipads that are
> stuck in ios 9.x
> ***BUT*** that build config causes the app to fail on newer versions of ios.



From david.bovill at gmail.com  Wed May 27 05:14:41 2020
From: david.bovill at gmail.com (David Bovill)
Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 10:14:41 +0100
Subject: Integrating Desktop or mobile application with LMS using LTI 1.3
In-Reply-To: <9129BC2A-3814-4205-ADCD-CE9732B90E43@gmail.com>
References: <5013068A-C3D7-449D-87B8-19B626F20ECA.ref@rogers.com>
 <5013068A-C3D7-449D-87B8-19B626F20ECA@rogers.com>
 <A9B6B54F-E3CF-4E7F-BFBA-DEE050199382@me.com>
 <9129BC2A-3814-4205-ADCD-CE9732B90E43@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c37c65d9-2b24-4616-a40e-6d4eb04196b8@Spark>

Interesting. I looked at this a couple of years ago. Please include me in any open source project in that space.
On 27 May 2020, 00:34 +0100, William Prothero via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
> Martin and Peter:
> I am retired, but still creating one (big) educational application. I thought the LMS integration idea had died a death by silence, so I am so glad you are looking into this. I?m very interested, but have not put forth any effort in this direction.
>
> Please keep me informed about what you find.
> Best,
> Bill
>
> William A. Prothero
> https://earthlearningsolutions.org
>
> > On May 25, 2020, at 3:28 PM, Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Martin,
> >
> > I?ve just begun looking into this myself, so I?m also interested in what anybody knows about this.
> >
> > Peter Bogdanoff
> > ArtsInteractive
> >
> >
> > > On May 25, 2020, at 3:05 PM, Martin Koob via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi list
> > >
> > > I have been researching how to integrate a desktop application created with LiveCode with a learning Management system (LMS) like Brightspace by D2L, Moodle, Canvas etc. Last time I looked at this SCORM was the standard with TinCan( aka xAPI) as a potential successor. This time around I found those seem to have been superseded by LTI 1.1 going to LTI 1.3.
> > >
> > > In the documents I have found I see that one of the advantages of LTI 1.3 is that it can be used with desktop and mobile apps. LTI 1.1 only worked with web based applications.
> > >
> > > " Mobile Ready?The model is independent of web browsers, a better solution for server-to-server, native desktop and mobile applications.?
> > > https://www.imsglobal.org/why-platforms-and-tools-should-adopt-lti-13 <https://www.imsglobal.org/why-platforms-and-tools-should-adopt-lti-13>
> > >
> > > I am looking for examples of people doing this but have not found any online.(I don?t want to spend time on idly ddl I looks like it would be possible to use it in an LiveCode application. It uses oAuth 2 for authentication and JSON for messages both of which are available on the the latest version of LiveCode.
> > >
> > > First I just want to confirm it has been done for a desktop application in general so I know that is a viable approach for integrating an App into an LMS.
> > >
> > > Second I wonder if people have done it using LiveCode.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Martin Koob
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > use-livecode mailing list
> > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From heather.williams11 at btinternet.com  Wed May 27 05:17:50 2020
From: heather.williams11 at btinternet.com (Heather Laine)
Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 10:17:50 +0100
Subject: Licencing files for LC 9.6.0 rc-2
In-Reply-To: <2abb484a-eed3-bbae-479d-598fae227b3d@gmail.com>
References: <2abb484a-eed3-bbae-479d-598fae227b3d@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4F3067F2-3C1C-4372-B38C-185EFC0B93DD@btinternet.com>

Scroll down the list of downloads, below the fold. You will find all the test releases including 9.6.0 rc2. We forced rc1 to the top because the current stable release, 9.5.1, is not signed for Catalina and was causing problems for new users.

Best Regards,

Heather

> On 26 May 2020, at 20:07, Richmond via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Offline activation files for LC 9.6.0 rc-2 don't seem to be available?
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From hakan at exformedia.se  Wed May 27 05:25:03 2020
From: hakan at exformedia.se (hakan at exformedia.se)
Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 11:25:03 +0200
Subject: Integrating Desktop or mobile application with LMS using LTI 1.3
In-Reply-To: <9129BC2A-3814-4205-ADCD-CE9732B90E43@gmail.com>
References: <5013068A-C3D7-449D-87B8-19B626F20ECA.ref@rogers.com>
 <5013068A-C3D7-449D-87B8-19B626F20ECA@rogers.com>
 <A9B6B54F-E3CF-4E7F-BFBA-DEE050199382@me.com>
 <9129BC2A-3814-4205-ADCD-CE9732B90E43@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <08583279-fde2-4d1d-b6d8-ba434193b22c@Spark>

I don't think LTI is dead at all, most mayor LMSs support LTI today in one way on another. I'm also looking into this as we are using the Canvas LMS at our university (where I have my day-work) so I'm definitely interested in some participation in a LiveCode LTI library. I've just started my work so no code yet though...

Best wishes,

H?kan
On 27 May 2020, 01:34 +0200, William Prothero via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
> Martin and Peter:
> I am retired, but still creating one (big) educational application. I thought the LMS integration idea had died a death by silence, so I am so glad you are looking into this. I?m very interested, but have not put forth any effort in this direction.
>
> Please keep me informed about what you find.
> Best,
> Bill
>
> William A. Prothero
> https://earthlearningsolutions.org
>
> > On May 25, 2020, at 3:28 PM, Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Martin,
> >
> > I?ve just begun looking into this myself, so I?m also interested in what anybody knows about this.
> >
> > Peter Bogdanoff
> > ArtsInteractive
> >
> >
> > > On May 25, 2020, at 3:05 PM, Martin Koob via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi list
> > >
> > > I have been researching how to integrate a desktop application created with LiveCode with a learning Management system (LMS) like Brightspace by D2L, Moodle, Canvas etc. Last time I looked at this SCORM was the standard with TinCan( aka xAPI) as a potential successor. This time around I found those seem to have been superseded by LTI 1.1 going to LTI 1.3.
> > >
> > > In the documents I have found I see that one of the advantages of LTI 1.3 is that it can be used with desktop and mobile apps. LTI 1.1 only worked with web based applications.
> > >
> > > " Mobile Ready?The model is independent of web browsers, a better solution for server-to-server, native desktop and mobile applications.?
> > > https://www.imsglobal.org/why-platforms-and-tools-should-adopt-lti-13 <https://www.imsglobal.org/why-platforms-and-tools-should-adopt-lti-13>
> > >
> > > I am looking for examples of people doing this but have not found any online.(I don?t want to spend time on idly ddl I looks like it would be possible to use it in an LiveCode application. It uses oAuth 2 for authentication and JSON for messages both of which are available on the the latest version of LiveCode.
> > >
> > > First I just want to confirm it has been done for a desktop application in general so I know that is a viable approach for integrating an App into an LMS.
> > >
> > > Second I wonder if people have done it using LiveCode.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Martin Koob
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > use-livecode mailing list
> > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Wed May 27 07:32:49 2020
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond)
Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 14:32:49 +0300
Subject: Licencing files for LC 9.6.0 rc-2
In-Reply-To: <4F3067F2-3C1C-4372-B38C-185EFC0B93DD@btinternet.com>
References: <2abb484a-eed3-bbae-479d-598fae227b3d@gmail.com>
 <4F3067F2-3C1C-4372-B38C-185EFC0B93DD@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <7314bc81-9f64-b158-d9fe-09fa119175f1@gmail.com>

Thank you very much.

On 27.05.20 12:17, Heather Laine via use-livecode wrote:
> Scroll down the list of downloads, below the fold. You will find all the test releases including 9.6.0 rc2. We forced rc1 to the top because the current stable release, 9.5.1, is not signed for Catalina and was causing problems for new users.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Heather
>
>> On 26 May 2020, at 20:07, Richmond via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>> Offline activation files for LC 9.6.0 rc-2 don't seem to be available?
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From hakan at exformedia.se  Wed May 27 11:28:15 2020
From: hakan at exformedia.se (hakan at exformedia.se)
Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 17:28:15 +0200
Subject: LiveCode Server not notarized?
References: <e3ae9b59-752d-49bd-b8a4-4354cddb869d@Spark>
Message-ID: <4512b7db-cd80-439a-9266-9af97667bf4d@Spark>

Hi,

I was trying to get LiveCode server up and running under MAMP in macOS Catalina and if anyone is interested. This is what I did to get it running.

1. Download and unpack LiveCode Server
2. Move livecode-server, drivers folder and externals folder into the cgi-bin folder in MAMP. ( /Applications/MAMP/cgi-bin if you have a standard installation )
3. Open up /Applications/MAMP/conf/apache/httpd.conf
4. Find the <Directory ?/Path/To/Your/Server/Root?> section and just before the </Directory> you add:
AddHandler livecode-script .lc
Action livecode-script /livecode-cgi/livecode-server

Added


From hakan at exformedia.se  Wed May 27 11:44:23 2020
From: hakan at exformedia.se (hakan at exformedia.se)
Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 17:44:23 +0200
Subject: LiveCode Server Under MAMP
References: <d2d0f9db-c592-4f41-8d2f-2c8734406859@Spark>
Message-ID: <7fae0188-2be4-4bbc-a46a-602a4d0fdf2c@Spark>

Ouch,

Hit send to early, new try:

Hi,

I was trying to get LiveCode server up and running under MAMP in macOS Catalina and if anyone is interested. This is what I did to get it running.

1. Download and unpack LiveCode Server
2. Move livecode-server, drivers folder and externals folder into the cgi-bin folder in MAMP. ( /Applications/MAMP/cgi-bin if you have a standard installation )
3. Open up /Applications/MAMP/conf/apache/httpd.conf
4. Find the <Directory ?/Path/To/Your/Server/Root?> section and just before the </Directory> you add:
AddHandler livecode-script .lc
Action livecode-script /livecode-cgi/livecode-server
NOTE: IF your have the community server you should replace livecode-server with livecode-community-server
5. Just after </Directory> add a new line with:
ScriptAlias /livecode-cgi/livecode-server /Applications/MAMP/cgi-bin/livecode-server
Again replace livecode-server with livecode-community-server if you use the community version.
6. Now if you restart MAMP and add a .lc file into your web folder and tries to access it, you will se a prompt that says that livecode-server can?t be trusted with no options to allow.
7. To allow unnotarized applications under MacOS you need to right-click the application and select open. You will then get a prompt where you have an ?Open? button. If you click that you will get another prompt asking for an admin user and password. Fill in and continue.
8. Now you finally have to repeat the procedure for every lib (i.e. every file in the drivers and the externals folder. But if you do them in succession you will probably not get the admin prompt more than once.
9. Now you should have a local web development under MAMP with livecode server up and running!

There is also a command line option for point 7 (and 8) above and that is to use:
spctl --add /Applications/MAMP/cgi-bin/livecode-server
You will get the same prompt for admin user unless you do
sudo spctl ?

So, no there is no excuse for not starting to use LiveCode for your next web project ;)

Happy Coding!

:-H?kan


From harrison at all-auctions.com  Wed May 27 11:49:07 2020
From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison)
Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 11:49:07 -0400
Subject: LiveCode Server Under MAMP
In-Reply-To: <7fae0188-2be4-4bbc-a46a-602a4d0fdf2c@Spark>
References: <d2d0f9db-c592-4f41-8d2f-2c8734406859@Spark>
 <7fae0188-2be4-4bbc-a46a-602a4d0fdf2c@Spark>
Message-ID: <D772019B-A148-487E-B323-791AE40D8D26@all-auctions.com>

Did you get MAMP to work with SSL?

If you do, let me know as then you might catch my interest.

Thanks,

Rick

> On May 27, 2020, at 11:44 AM, H?kan Liljegren via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Ouch,
> 
> Hit send to early, new try:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I was trying to get LiveCode server up and running under MAMP in macOS Catalina and if anyone is interested. This is what I did to get it running.
> 
> 1. Download and unpack LiveCode Server
> 2. Move livecode-server, drivers folder and externals folder into the cgi-bin folder in MAMP. ( /Applications/MAMP/cgi-bin if you have a standard installation )
> 3. Open up /Applications/MAMP/conf/apache/httpd.conf
> 4. Find the <Directory ?/Path/To/Your/Server/Root?> section and just before the </Directory> you add:
> AddHandler livecode-script .lc
> Action livecode-script /livecode-cgi/livecode-server
> NOTE: IF your have the community server you should replace livecode-server with livecode-community-server
> 5. Just after </Directory> add a new line with:
> ScriptAlias /livecode-cgi/livecode-server /Applications/MAMP/cgi-bin/livecode-server
> Again replace livecode-server with livecode-community-server if you use the community version.
> 6. Now if you restart MAMP and add a .lc file into your web folder and tries to access it, you will se a prompt that says that livecode-server can?t be trusted with no options to allow.
> 7. To allow unnotarized applications under MacOS you need to right-click the application and select open. You will then get a prompt where you have an ?Open? button. If you click that you will get another prompt asking for an admin user and password. Fill in and continue.
> 8. Now you finally have to repeat the procedure for every lib (i.e. every file in the drivers and the externals folder. But if you do them in succession you will probably not get the admin prompt more than once.
> 9. Now you should have a local web development under MAMP with livecode server up and running!
> 
> There is also a command line option for point 7 (and 8) above and that is to use:
> spctl --add /Applications/MAMP/cgi-bin/livecode-server
> You will get the same prompt for admin user unless you do
> sudo spctl ?
> 
> So, no there is no excuse for not starting to use LiveCode for your next web project ;)
> 
> Happy Coding!
> 
> :-H?kan
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Wed May 27 12:13:07 2020
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 18:13:07 +0200
Subject: LiveCode Server Under MAMP
In-Reply-To: <7fae0188-2be4-4bbc-a46a-602a4d0fdf2c@Spark>
References: <d2d0f9db-c592-4f41-8d2f-2c8734406859@Spark>
 <7fae0188-2be4-4bbc-a46a-602a4d0fdf2c@Spark>
Message-ID: <28769AA3-D83A-460C-B321-ED7E6EE06330@m-r-d.de>

H?kan,

would you mind if i take your steps and create a detailed  Livecode Lesson with it?


-
Matthias Rebbe
Life Is Too Short For Boring Code

> Am 27.05.2020 um 17:44 schrieb H?kan Liljegren via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Ouch,
> 
> Hit send to early, new try:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I was trying to get LiveCode server up and running under MAMP in macOS Catalina and if anyone is interested. This is what I did to get it running.
> 
> 1. Download and unpack LiveCode Server
> 2. Move livecode-server, drivers folder and externals folder into the cgi-bin folder in MAMP. ( /Applications/MAMP/cgi-bin if you have a standard installation )
> 3. Open up /Applications/MAMP/conf/apache/httpd.conf
> 4. Find the <Directory ?/Path/To/Your/Server/Root?> section and just before the </Directory> you add:
> AddHandler livecode-script .lc
> Action livecode-script /livecode-cgi/livecode-server
> NOTE: IF your have the community server you should replace livecode-server with livecode-community-server
> 5. Just after </Directory> add a new line with:
> ScriptAlias /livecode-cgi/livecode-server /Applications/MAMP/cgi-bin/livecode-server
> Again replace livecode-server with livecode-community-server if you use the community version.
> 6. Now if you restart MAMP and add a .lc file into your web folder and tries to access it, you will se a prompt that says that livecode-server can?t be trusted with no options to allow.
> 7. To allow unnotarized applications under MacOS you need to right-click the application and select open. You will then get a prompt where you have an ?Open? button. If you click that you will get another prompt asking for an admin user and password. Fill in and continue.
> 8. Now you finally have to repeat the procedure for every lib (i.e. every file in the drivers and the externals folder. But if you do them in succession you will probably not get the admin prompt more than once.
> 9. Now you should have a local web development under MAMP with livecode server up and running!
> 
> There is also a command line option for point 7 (and 8) above and that is to use:
> spctl --add /Applications/MAMP/cgi-bin/livecode-server
> You will get the same prompt for admin user unless you do
> sudo spctl ?
> 
> So, no there is no excuse for not starting to use LiveCode for your next web project ;)
> 
> Happy Coding!
> 
> :-H?kan
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From hakan at exformedia.se  Wed May 27 12:28:59 2020
From: hakan at exformedia.se (hakan at exformedia.se)
Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 18:28:59 +0200
Subject: LiveCode Server Under MAMP
In-Reply-To: <28769AA3-D83A-460C-B321-ED7E6EE06330@m-r-d.de>
References: <d2d0f9db-c592-4f41-8d2f-2c8734406859@Spark>
 <7fae0188-2be4-4bbc-a46a-602a4d0fdf2c@Spark>
 <28769AA3-D83A-460C-B321-ED7E6EE06330@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <7cbfb3b2-d7f7-424a-b3a7-94bb02cd3257@Spark>

Not at all! Go ahead.

:-H?kan
On 27 May 2020, 18:14 +0200, matthias rebbe via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
> H?kan,
>
> would you mind if i take your steps and create a detailed Livecode Lesson with it?
>
>
> -
> Matthias Rebbe
> Life Is Too Short For Boring Code
>
> > Am 27.05.2020 um 17:44 schrieb H?kan Liljegren via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> >
> > Ouch,
> >
> > Hit send to early, new try:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I was trying to get LiveCode server up and running under MAMP in macOS Catalina and if anyone is interested. This is what I did to get it running.
> >
> > 1. Download and unpack LiveCode Server
> > 2. Move livecode-server, drivers folder and externals folder into the cgi-bin folder in MAMP. ( /Applications/MAMP/cgi-bin if you have a standard installation )
> > 3. Open up /Applications/MAMP/conf/apache/httpd.conf
> > 4. Find the <Directory ?/Path/To/Your/Server/Root?> section and just before the </Directory> you add:
> > AddHandler livecode-script .lc
> > Action livecode-script /livecode-cgi/livecode-server
> > NOTE: IF your have the community server you should replace livecode-server with livecode-community-server
> > 5. Just after </Directory> add a new line with:
> > ScriptAlias /livecode-cgi/livecode-server /Applications/MAMP/cgi-bin/livecode-server
> > Again replace livecode-server with livecode-community-server if you use the community version.
> > 6. Now if you restart MAMP and add a .lc file into your web folder and tries to access it, you will se a prompt that says that livecode-server can?t be trusted with no options to allow.
> > 7. To allow unnotarized applications under MacOS you need to right-click the application and select open. You will then get a prompt where you have an ?Open? button. If you click that you will get another prompt asking for an admin user and password. Fill in and continue.
> > 8. Now you finally have to repeat the procedure for every lib (i.e. every file in the drivers and the externals folder. But if you do them in succession you will probably not get the admin prompt more than once.
> > 9. Now you should have a local web development under MAMP with livecode server up and running!
> >
> > There is also a command line option for point 7 (and 8) above and that is to use:
> > spctl --add /Applications/MAMP/cgi-bin/livecode-server
> > You will get the same prompt for admin user unless you do
> > sudo spctl ?
> >
> > So, no there is no excuse for not starting to use LiveCode for your next web project ;)
> >
> > Happy Coding!
> >
> > :-H?kan
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From hakan at exformedia.se  Wed May 27 12:30:37 2020
From: hakan at exformedia.se (hakan at exformedia.se)
Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 18:30:37 +0200
Subject: LiveCode Server Under MAMP
In-Reply-To: <D772019B-A148-487E-B323-791AE40D8D26@all-auctions.com>
References: <d2d0f9db-c592-4f41-8d2f-2c8734406859@Spark>
 <7fae0188-2be4-4bbc-a46a-602a4d0fdf2c@Spark>
 <D772019B-A148-487E-B323-791AE40D8D26@all-auctions.com>
Message-ID: <5d75cb6c-79d5-4813-8c41-d0cc423ba873@Spark>

I have done that some time ago, nowadays I usually use MAMP Pro if I need more sophistication. But I?ll make a try to find it..

:-H?kan
On 27 May 2020, 17:50 +0200, Rick Harrison via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
> Did you get MAMP to work with SSL?
>
> If you do, let me know as then you might catch my interest.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Rick
>
> > On May 27, 2020, at 11:44 AM, H?kan Liljegren via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Ouch,
> >
> > Hit send to early, new try:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I was trying to get LiveCode server up and running under MAMP in macOS Catalina and if anyone is interested. This is what I did to get it running.
> >
> > 1. Download and unpack LiveCode Server
> > 2. Move livecode-server, drivers folder and externals folder into the cgi-bin folder in MAMP. ( /Applications/MAMP/cgi-bin if you have a standard installation )
> > 3. Open up /Applications/MAMP/conf/apache/httpd.conf
> > 4. Find the <Directory ?/Path/To/Your/Server/Root?> section and just before the </Directory> you add:
> > AddHandler livecode-script .lc
> > Action livecode-script /livecode-cgi/livecode-server
> > NOTE: IF your have the community server you should replace livecode-server with livecode-community-server
> > 5. Just after </Directory> add a new line with:
> > ScriptAlias /livecode-cgi/livecode-server /Applications/MAMP/cgi-bin/livecode-server
> > Again replace livecode-server with livecode-community-server if you use the community version.
> > 6. Now if you restart MAMP and add a .lc file into your web folder and tries to access it, you will se a prompt that says that livecode-server can?t be trusted with no options to allow.
> > 7. To allow unnotarized applications under MacOS you need to right-click the application and select open. You will then get a prompt where you have an ?Open? button. If you click that you will get another prompt asking for an admin user and password. Fill in and continue.
> > 8. Now you finally have to repeat the procedure for every lib (i.e. every file in the drivers and the externals folder. But if you do them in succession you will probably not get the admin prompt more than once.
> > 9. Now you should have a local web development under MAMP with livecode server up and running!
> >
> > There is also a command line option for point 7 (and 8) above and that is to use:
> > spctl --add /Applications/MAMP/cgi-bin/livecode-server
> > You will get the same prompt for admin user unless you do
> > sudo spctl ?
> >
> > So, no there is no excuse for not starting to use LiveCode for your next web project ;)
> >
> > Happy Coding!
> >
> > :-H?kan
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From alex at tweedly.net  Wed May 27 21:22:47 2020
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 02:22:47 +0100
Subject: What have I done now ? (aka CR and LF confusion)
Message-ID: <7c482e01-8453-0cf5-5a98-8ca37b7edb30@tweedly.net>

I don't know if I've done something to my LC prefs, or to my Mac, or to 
myself :-)

the following script

> on mouseUp
> ?? local t
> ?? put "asd" & CR & "qwe" & CR & "zxc" &CR into t
> ?? put t into URL ("file:/Users/alextweedly/tiny.txt")
> end mouseUp
does create a file - but that file can't be (easily, properly) used by 
some other Mac apps, because all the end-of-line characters are 0x0d 
(i.e. numtochar(13)). So unix utilities like wc, cat, grep, more, ... 
won't deal with it properly - though emacs, Sublime, Coda2, etc. do ok.

If I create the same file in an editor (emacs, Sublime Text, ...) they 
all produce e-o-l characters which are 0x0A (i.e. numtochar(10)), and 
this works in both editors and utilities mentioned above, as well as LC.

Maybe it's always been like this ??

I don't know - I just noticed because I tried to 'grep' for some 
characters in all files within a folder, and didn't find anything 
(though I should have done).

SO I can get by - just avoid using any files created within LC with any 
other apps - but I'd rather find out if I should be doing something 
different, or if I've accidentally changed some setting that causes this.

Thanks for any thoughts,

Alex.




From brian at milby7.com  Wed May 27 22:15:22 2020
From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby)
Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 22:15:22 -0400
Subject: What have I done now ? (aka CR and LF confusion)
In-Reply-To: <7c482e01-8453-0cf5-5a98-8ca37b7edb30@tweedly.net>
References: <7c482e01-8453-0cf5-5a98-8ca37b7edb30@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <e2829b1c-fb80-462d-8502-ffb138abec72@Spark>

You need to use binfile on Mac to get sane line endings.??I have a PR to fix, but doubt it will get merged.

On Mac/Windows, file will convert line endings to what LC thinks is the native one for the OS.??CRLF for Windows and CR for Mac (the real CR, not the one that LC uses internally where CR and LF are synonyms for LF).??So on Linux you can use either file or binfile, on Windows you need to use file, and on Mac you need to use binfile to get the currently expected line endings.

Thanks,
Brian
On May 27, 2020, 9:24 PM -0400, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
> I don't know if I've done something to my LC prefs, or to my Mac, or to
> myself :-)
>
> the following script
>
> > on mouseUp
> > ?? local t
> > ?? put "asd" & CR & "qwe" & CR & "zxc" &CR into t
> > ?? put t into URL ("file:/Users/alextweedly/tiny.txt")
> > end mouseUp
> does create a file - but that file can't be (easily, properly) used by
> some other Mac apps, because all the end-of-line characters are 0x0d
> (i.e. numtochar(13)). So unix utilities like wc, cat, grep, more, ...
> won't deal with it properly - though emacs, Sublime, Coda2, etc. do ok.
>
> If I create the same file in an editor (emacs, Sublime Text, ...) they
> all produce e-o-l characters which are 0x0A (i.e. numtochar(10)), and
> this works in both editors and utilities mentioned above, as well as LC.
>
> Maybe it's always been like this ??
>
> I don't know - I just noticed because I tried to 'grep' for some
> characters in all files within a folder, and didn't find anything
> (though I should have done).
>
> SO I can get by - just avoid using any files created within LC with any
> other apps - but I'd rather find out if I should be doing something
> different, or if I've accidentally changed some setting that causes this.
>
> Thanks for any thoughts,
>
> Alex.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu May 28 02:52:54 2020
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 01:52:54 -0500
Subject: Code-signed apk fails
Message-ID: <943e05dc-1c05-3f43-ef48-2af5ab363500@hyperactivesw.com>

We're about to release an Android app. I've been signing it for development only and it works 
well. Today I created a keystore "FPMobile.jks" in Terminal as usual.

As an aside, I got this in Terminal:
Warning:
The JKS keystore uses a proprietary format. It is recommended to migrate to PKCS12 which is an 
industry standard format using "keytool -importkeystore -srckeystore FPMobile.jks -destkeystore 
FPMobile.jks -deststoretype pkcs12".

I don't know if that's significant. I've ignored it in the past, so I went ahead and entered 
the jks file in standalone settings. When LC 9.6rc2 asked me to locate the keystore during the 
build, I was unable to select it in the file dialog until I chose "All files". That seemed to 
work and the build finished.

At any rate the real problem:

The codesigned app fails to download files from the server. My error log shows that sometimes 
there is no error at all but nothing is downloaded, other times the error is vague: "Invalid 
URL:" with no URL indicated. The same script and URLs work in the IDE and in the apk when built 
without the keystore.

I don't think codesigning should affect server queries but that seems to be what's happening. I 
rebuilt the apk without any changes except to remove the keystore and it worked perfectly 
again. Could TSNet be involved somehow?

I'm not sure where to look for the fault. Ideas?

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Thu May 28 06:24:19 2020
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 12:24:19 +0200
Subject: Code-signed apk fails
In-Reply-To: <943e05dc-1c05-3f43-ef48-2af5ab363500@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <943e05dc-1c05-3f43-ef48-2af5ab363500@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <6A6E49DC-95AE-4847-B27D-71BE963202B2@m-r-d.de>

Jacque,

did you already try to build the .apk without tsNet?  This way you could check if tsNET is involved.
You need to do the 2 steps before building the .apk
1. execute    dispatch "revUnloadLibrary" to stack "tsNetLibUrl"    in message box
(btw. to load it again after building the standalone execute     dispatch "revLoadLibrary" to stack "tsNetLibUrl" - no need to restart LC IDE )
2. if "Select inclusions for..." is selected, then deselect tsNET external in standalone settings.

Now build the .apk with the keystore.
If the .apk is able now to download the files although it is signed, then tsNET is involved.

If the .apk still does not download, then i would try to convert the keystore file to the new format as suggested in the warning message and would try to use that file during standalone building.


And if you are on Mac and if your time allows could you try an older LC version to build the .apk. e.g. 9.6.0 DP3. According to the FAQ at Livecode.com <https://livecode.com/docs/9-5-0/faq/faq/>
all DP versions are not notarized:
"Our test releases (DP versions) will not be fully notarized and you will still need to do this. Future Stable releases will be notarized and will not need whitelisting."

So RC1 and RC2 could be notarized and who knows, if or if not  the notarization process touched the Android externals of tsNET in some way. But that?s just a shot in the dark.


Matthias




-
Matthias Rebbe
Life Is Too Short For Boring Code

> Am 28.05.2020 um 08:52 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> We're about to release an Android app. I've been signing it for development only and it works well. Today I created a keystore "FPMobile.jks" in Terminal as usual.
> 
> As an aside, I got this in Terminal:
> Warning:
> The JKS keystore uses a proprietary format. It is recommended to migrate to PKCS12 which is an industry standard format using "keytool -importkeystore -srckeystore FPMobile.jks -destkeystore FPMobile.jks -deststoretype pkcs12".
> 
> I don't know if that's significant. I've ignored it in the past, so I went ahead and entered the jks file in standalone settings. When LC 9.6rc2 asked me to locate the keystore during the build, I was unable to select it in the file dialog until I chose "All files". That seemed to work and the build finished.
> 
> At any rate the real problem:
> 
> The codesigned app fails to download files from the server. My error log shows that sometimes there is no error at all but nothing is downloaded, other times the error is vague: "Invalid URL:" with no URL indicated. The same script and URLs work in the IDE and in the apk when built without the keystore.
> 
> I don't think codesigning should affect server queries but that seems to be what's happening. I rebuilt the apk without any changes except to remove the keystore and it worked perfectly again. Could TSNet be involved somehow?
> 
> I'm not sure where to look for the fault. Ideas?
> 
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From jeejeestudio at gmail.com  Thu May 28 07:40:15 2020
From: jeejeestudio at gmail.com (JeeJeeStudio)
Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 13:40:15 +0200
Subject: Code-signed apk fails
In-Reply-To: <943e05dc-1c05-3f43-ef48-2af5ab363500@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <943e05dc-1c05-3f43-ef48-2af5ab363500@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <45ae0f17-994c-7680-0455-295584dd2992@gmail.com>

The normal exstension is .keystore , maybe that's the reason?


Op 28-5-2020 om 08:52 schreef J. Landman Gay via use-livecode:
> We're about to release an Android app. I've been signing it for 
> development only and it works well. Today I created a keystore 
> "FPMobile.jks" in Terminal as usual.
>
> As an aside, I got this in Terminal:
> Warning:
> The JKS keystore uses a proprietary format. It is recommended to 
> migrate to PKCS12 which is an industry standard format using "keytool 
> -importkeystore -srckeystore FPMobile.jks -destkeystore FPMobile.jks 
> -deststoretype pkcs12".
>
> I don't know if that's significant. I've ignored it in the past, so I 
> went ahead and entered the jks file in standalone settings. When LC 
> 9.6rc2 asked me to locate the keystore during the build, I was unable 
> to select it in the file dialog until I chose "All files". That seemed 
> to work and the build finished.
>
> At any rate the real problem:
>
> The codesigned app fails to download files from the server. My error 
> log shows that sometimes there is no error at all but nothing is 
> downloaded, other times the error is vague: "Invalid URL:" with no URL 
> indicated. The same script and URLs work in the IDE and in the apk 
> when built without the keystore.
>
> I don't think codesigning should affect server queries but that seems 
> to be what's happening. I rebuilt the apk without any changes except 
> to remove the keystore and it worked perfectly again. Could TSNet be 
> involved somehow?
>
> I'm not sure where to look for the fault. Ideas?
>



From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com  Thu May 28 09:02:32 2020
From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner)
Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 09:02:32 -0400
Subject: ADA Compliency
In-Reply-To: <93E5E883-75AC-42AA-8FC8-CB616516E788@clearvisiontech.com>
References: <93E5E883-75AC-42AA-8FC8-CB616516E788@clearvisiontech.com>
Message-ID: <CADCoycNzOk_UuASA=1W=t1eDxA+LnBodNybd7=kGdHP-jRaZPA@mail.gmail.com>

Oh gawd, I had an ancient college sweaty OMG FINALS panic attack, because I
thought you wrote Ada, not ADA.


On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 6:57 PM Dan Friedman via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Has anyone done anything in regards to ADA compliancy in mobile apps built
> with LiveCode?   Using the apple or android accessibility tools such as
> Screen reading, for example.
>
> -Dan
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."


From merakosp at gmail.com  Thu May 28 09:03:42 2020
From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos)
Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 16:03:42 +0300
Subject: Code-signed apk fails
In-Reply-To: <45ae0f17-994c-7680-0455-295584dd2992@gmail.com>
References: <943e05dc-1c05-3f43-ef48-2af5ab363500@hyperactivesw.com>
 <45ae0f17-994c-7680-0455-295584dd2992@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+JfEq8GYCrFh=w1EntHsFLHK1iS-hJhFm5GX91WYg+PQ0HXww@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Jacque,

I did a quick test, I put this in a button:

get url "https://google.com
<https://slack-redir.net/link?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgoogle.com>"
put it into fld "url"

and signed the .apk with a release.keystore, and it works as expected for
me. The stack includes tsNet - I used LC 9.6 RC-2 for this.

Could you file a bug report with a recipe about this issue, and attach your
stack (or send it to me directly if it is confidential), so as we
investigate?

Kind regards,
Panos
--



On Thu, 28 May 2020 at 14:41, JeeJeeStudio via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> The normal exstension is .keystore , maybe that's the reason?
>
>
> Op 28-5-2020 om 08:52 schreef J. Landman Gay via use-livecode:
> > We're about to release an Android app. I've been signing it for
> > development only and it works well. Today I created a keystore
> > "FPMobile.jks" in Terminal as usual.
> >
> > As an aside, I got this in Terminal:
> > Warning:
> > The JKS keystore uses a proprietary format. It is recommended to
> > migrate to PKCS12 which is an industry standard format using "keytool
> > -importkeystore -srckeystore FPMobile.jks -destkeystore FPMobile.jks
> > -deststoretype pkcs12".
> >
> > I don't know if that's significant. I've ignored it in the past, so I
> > went ahead and entered the jks file in standalone settings. When LC
> > 9.6rc2 asked me to locate the keystore during the build, I was unable
> > to select it in the file dialog until I chose "All files". That seemed
> > to work and the build finished.
> >
> > At any rate the real problem:
> >
> > The codesigned app fails to download files from the server. My error
> > log shows that sometimes there is no error at all but nothing is
> > downloaded, other times the error is vague: "Invalid URL:" with no URL
> > indicated. The same script and URLs work in the IDE and in the apk
> > when built without the keystore.
> >
> > I don't think codesigning should affect server queries but that seems
> > to be what's happening. I rebuilt the apk without any changes except
> > to remove the keystore and it worked perfectly again. Could TSNet be
> > involved somehow?
> >
> > I'm not sure where to look for the fault. Ideas?
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From cszasz at mac.com  Thu May 28 10:04:17 2020
From: cszasz at mac.com (Charles Szasz)
Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 08:04:17 -0600
Subject: Special Paste
Message-ID: <0002B11F-ADCC-4298-8810-76177382912A@mac.com>

Both Apple's Pages and Microsoft?s Word software have key commands for pasting text into an existing document to match the current formatting (font). How do you script to accomplish this when copying text to the clipboard in a button so the user does not have to use keyboard commands?

Sent from my iPad


From alex at tweedly.net  Thu May 28 11:20:13 2020
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 16:20:13 +0100
Subject: What have I done now ? (aka CR and LF confusion)
In-Reply-To: <e2829b1c-fb80-462d-8502-ffb138abec72@Spark>
References: <7c482e01-8453-0cf5-5a98-8ca37b7edb30@tweedly.net>
 <e2829b1c-fb80-462d-8502-ffb138abec72@Spark>
Message-ID: <ab0c403e-e95c-89cc-54cf-fb31c7dd03e5@tweedly.net>

Thanks Brian, that was a very helpful and clear description. It's 
amazing that I've been an active Runrev/livecode for nearly 20 years and 
not been affected by this until now :-)

Re. a PR to change it, it does seem it will run into concerns about 
backward compatability. Is it likely to succeed to propose a new 
URL-type - maybe "textfile".

Then you could do

 ? put tData into URL "textfile:tiny.txt"?? to get the sane behaviour

but continue to do

 ? put tData into URL "file:tiny.txt"?? to get the existing behaviour

To me, it feels like a better self-documenting case - binfile vs 
textfile, rather than binfile vs file.

Alex.


On 28/05/2020 03:15, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote:
> You need to use binfile on Mac to get sane line endings.??I have a PR to fix, but doubt it will get merged.
>
> On Mac/Windows, file will convert line endings to what LC thinks is the native one for the OS.??CRLF for Windows and CR for Mac (the real CR, not the one that LC uses internally where CR and LF are synonyms for LF).??So on Linux you can use either file or binfile, on Windows you need to use file, and on Mac you need to use binfile to get the currently expected line endings.
>
> Thanks,
> Brian
> On May 27, 2020, 9:24 PM -0400, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
>> I don't know if I've done something to my LC prefs, or to my Mac, or to
>> myself :-)
>>
>> the following script
>>
>>> on mouseUp
>>>  ?? local t
>>>  ?? put "asd" & CR & "qwe" & CR & "zxc" &CR into t
>>>  ?? put t into URL ("file:/Users/alextweedly/tiny.txt")
>>> end mouseUp
>> does create a file - but that file can't be (easily, properly) used by
>> some other Mac apps, because all the end-of-line characters are 0x0d
>> (i.e. numtochar(13)). So unix utilities like wc, cat, grep, more, ...
>> won't deal with it properly - though emacs, Sublime, Coda2, etc. do ok.
>>
>> If I create the same file in an editor (emacs, Sublime Text, ...) they
>> all produce e-o-l characters which are 0x0A (i.e. numtochar(10)), and
>> this works in both editors and utilities mentioned above, as well as LC.
>>
>> Maybe it's always been like this ??
>>
>> I don't know - I just noticed because I tried to 'grep' for some
>> characters in all files within a folder, and didn't find anything
>> (though I should have done).
>>
>> SO I can get by - just avoid using any files created within LC with any
>> other apps - but I'd rather find out if I should be doing something
>> different, or if I've accidentally changed some setting that causes this.
>>
>> Thanks for any thoughts,
>>
>> Alex.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From ambassador at fourthworld.com  Thu May 28 12:08:53 2020
From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin)
Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 09:08:53 -0700
Subject: What have I done now ? (aka CR and LF confusion)
In-Reply-To: <ab0c403e-e95c-89cc-54cf-fb31c7dd03e5@tweedly.net>
References: <ab0c403e-e95c-89cc-54cf-fb31c7dd03e5@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <613799db-2cfb-f24a-03e8-219dd8c29497@fourthworld.com>

Alex Tweedly wrote:

 > Re. a PR to change it, it does seem it will run into concerns about
 > backward compatability. Is it likely to succeed to propose a new
 > URL-type - maybe "textfile".

What exactly does the PR do?

If it changes default Mac line endings from CR to LF, thumbs up.

macOS is a certified Unix, and has been for more than 20 years.  LF is 
the OS-default line ending. Command-line tools expect LF, and the GUI 
apps I've explored this in accept both where they use CR at all.

So while I can understand a concern about backward compatibility, it 
seems this one really only applies to a relatively small subset of edge 
cases for those depending on the simpler non-binary syntax for a 
specific binary sequence.

The simpler non-binary syntax is there to make things, well, simple.

Those needing a specific binary sequence should expect to use the binary 
syntax, while everyone else can enjoy simple file I/O reliably.

Keep in mind that "everyone else" includes what we hope will be a much 
larger audience of future users than the sum of all users to date.  Why 
plan for no-growth?  And even among current users, as in this thread it 
seems most expect the default to use the OS'es current default, not 
something leftover from the '90s.

Am I missing something?

LC has a very strong and favorable history of maintaining backward 
compatibility, far beyond anything I've seen with any other language.

I wonder sometimes if we take it too far, if maybe the rest of the world 
isn't wrong in sometimes allowing for the inevitable changes that take 
place in OSes.

 From time to time LC does deprecate and change things, and sometimes 
that means a little extra work for folks moving to a newer engine.  But 
given how rarely this happens, I don't think folks would mind another 
rare moment of change, esp. one that seems far more an improvement for 
most devs than a problem.

-- 
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  ____________________________________________________________________
  Ambassador at FourthWorld.com                http://www.FourthWorld.com




From brian at milby7.com  Thu May 28 12:11:10 2020
From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby)
Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 12:11:10 -0400
Subject: What have I done now ? (aka CR and LF confusion)
In-Reply-To: <ab0c403e-e95c-89cc-54cf-fb31c7dd03e5@tweedly.net>
References: <7c482e01-8453-0cf5-5a98-8ca37b7edb30@tweedly.net>
 <e2829b1c-fb80-462d-8502-ffb138abec72@Spark>
 <ab0c403e-e95c-89cc-54cf-fb31c7dd03e5@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <CA+yhkRbwOVx2KnfPGfgr8pXt6A7hbjBWRcxxbkMVB7hjGWuFMA@mail.gmail.com>

binfile is just short for binary file... it means that the file is written
exactly as presented.  If you use encode (UTF8/16 etc) then you need to use
it anyway.

The PR is a pretty much single constant update (changes CR to LF for Mac
line ending).

The backwards compatibility issue is a very minor edge case.  To be
impacted you need to export text from LiveCode which uses CR where a
non-LiveCode app/process consumes the data and requires the CR line
ending.  LiveCode file in/out will automatically convert, so there would be
no impact to a LiveCode generated application that uses file for in/out.

On Thu, May 28, 2020 at 11:21 AM Alex Tweedly via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Thanks Brian, that was a very helpful and clear description. It's
> amazing that I've been an active Runrev/livecode for nearly 20 years and
> not been affected by this until now :-)
>
> Re. a PR to change it, it does seem it will run into concerns about
> backward compatability. Is it likely to succeed to propose a new
> URL-type - maybe "textfile".
>
> Then you could do
>
>    put tData into URL "textfile:tiny.txt"   to get the sane behaviour
>
> but continue to do
>
>    put tData into URL "file:tiny.txt"   to get the existing behaviour
>
> To me, it feels like a better self-documenting case - binfile vs
> textfile, rather than binfile vs file.
>
> Alex.
>
>
> On 28/05/2020 03:15, Brian Milby via use-livecode wrote:
> > You need to use binfile on Mac to get sane line endings.  I have a PR to
> fix, but doubt it will get merged.
> >
> > On Mac/Windows, file will convert line endings to what LC thinks is the
> native one for the OS.  CRLF for Windows and CR for Mac (the real CR, not
> the one that LC uses internally where CR and LF are synonyms for LF).  So
> on Linux you can use either file or binfile, on Windows you need to use
> file, and on Mac you need to use binfile to get the currently expected line
> endings.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Brian
> > On May 27, 2020, 9:24 PM -0400, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
> >> I don't know if I've done something to my LC prefs, or to my Mac, or to
> >> myself :-)
> >>
> >> the following script
> >>
> >>> on mouseUp
> >>>     local t
> >>>     put "asd" & CR & "qwe" & CR & "zxc" &CR into t
> >>>     put t into URL ("file:/Users/alextweedly/tiny.txt")
> >>> end mouseUp
> >> does create a file - but that file can't be (easily, properly) used by
> >> some other Mac apps, because all the end-of-line characters are 0x0d
> >> (i.e. numtochar(13)). So unix utilities like wc, cat, grep, more, ...
> >> won't deal with it properly - though emacs, Sublime, Coda2, etc. do ok.
> >>
> >> If I create the same file in an editor (emacs, Sublime Text, ...) they
> >> all produce e-o-l characters which are 0x0A (i.e. numtochar(10)), and
> >> this works in both editors and utilities mentioned above, as well as LC.
> >>
> >> Maybe it's always been like this ??
> >>
> >> I don't know - I just noticed because I tried to 'grep' for some
> >> characters in all files within a folder, and didn't find anything
> >> (though I should have done).
> >>
> >> SO I can get by - just avoid using any files created within LC with any
> >> other apps - but I'd rather find out if I should be doing something
> >> different, or if I've accidentally changed some setting that causes
> this.
> >>
> >> Thanks for any thoughts,
> >>
> >> Alex.
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> use-livecode mailing list
> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> > _______________________________________________
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From brian at milby7.com  Thu May 28 12:14:01 2020
From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby)
Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 12:14:01 -0400
Subject: What have I done now ? (aka CR and LF confusion)
In-Reply-To: <613799db-2cfb-f24a-03e8-219dd8c29497@fourthworld.com>
References: <ab0c403e-e95c-89cc-54cf-fb31c7dd03e5@tweedly.net>
 <613799db-2cfb-f24a-03e8-219dd8c29497@fourthworld.com>
Message-ID: <CA+yhkRYbh0j2TpqZYzhWbtf7doTrPAWA+ycwkDOLz2WiGxpO+A@mail.gmail.com>

Just changes CR to LF.  2 files updated.
https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/7214/files

On Thu, May 28, 2020 at 12:10 PM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Alex Tweedly wrote:
>
>  > Re. a PR to change it, it does seem it will run into concerns about
>  > backward compatability. Is it likely to succeed to propose a new
>  > URL-type - maybe "textfile".
>
> What exactly does the PR do?
>
> If it changes default Mac line endings from CR to LF, thumbs up.
>
>
>


From mark at canelasoftware.com  Thu May 28 13:17:20 2020
From: mark at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto)
Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 10:17:20 -0700
Subject: What have I done now ? (aka CR and LF confusion)
In-Reply-To: <CA+yhkRYbh0j2TpqZYzhWbtf7doTrPAWA+ycwkDOLz2WiGxpO+A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ab0c403e-e95c-89cc-54cf-fb31c7dd03e5@tweedly.net>
 <613799db-2cfb-f24a-03e8-219dd8c29497@fourthworld.com>
 <CA+yhkRYbh0j2TpqZYzhWbtf7doTrPAWA+ycwkDOLz2WiGxpO+A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E00969CB-E9FF-4500-A10A-9C4EDFEB29E6@canelasoftware.com>

I am a fan of moving Mac to default to LF. We use LF explicitly as our line ending of choice in all of our current software projects. 
LF is useful if only to natively work with the expected line endings from Github and text files interchanged with Linux servers. 


Best regards,

Mark Talluto
livecloud.io <http://livecloud.io/>
nursenotes.net <http://nursenotes.net/>
canelasoftware.com <http://www.canelasoftware.com/>


> On May 28, 2020, at 9:14 AM, Brian Milby via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Just changes CR to LF.  2 files updated.
> https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/7214/files
> 
> On Thu, May 28, 2020 at 12:10 PM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Alex Tweedly wrote:
>> 
>>> Re. a PR to change it, it does seem it will run into concerns about
>>> backward compatability. Is it likely to succeed to propose a new
>>> URL-type - maybe "textfile".
>> 
>> What exactly does the PR do?
>> 
>> If it changes default Mac line endings from CR to LF, thumbs up.



From ahsoftware at sonic.net  Thu May 28 13:33:50 2020
From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 10:33:50 -0700
Subject: What have I done now ? (aka CR and LF confusion)
In-Reply-To: <E00969CB-E9FF-4500-A10A-9C4EDFEB29E6@canelasoftware.com>
References: <ab0c403e-e95c-89cc-54cf-fb31c7dd03e5@tweedly.net>
 <613799db-2cfb-f24a-03e8-219dd8c29497@fourthworld.com>
 <CA+yhkRYbh0j2TpqZYzhWbtf7doTrPAWA+ycwkDOLz2WiGxpO+A@mail.gmail.com>
 <E00969CB-E9FF-4500-A10A-9C4EDFEB29E6@canelasoftware.com>
Message-ID: <2ceef22f-bd94-6a07-2173-12b817c126d1@sonic.net>

On 5/28/20 10:17 AM, Mark Talluto via use-livecode wrote:
> I am a fan of moving Mac to default to LF. We use LF explicitly as our line ending of choice in all of our current software projects.
> LF is useful if only to natively work with the expected line endings from Github and text files interchanged with Linux servers.

I agree, but have you tried adjusting your git core.autocrlf settings?

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu May 28 13:59:42 2020
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 12:59:42 -0500
Subject: Code-signed apk fails
In-Reply-To: <6A6E49DC-95AE-4847-B27D-71BE963202B2@m-r-d.de>
References: <943e05dc-1c05-3f43-ef48-2af5ab363500@hyperactivesw.com>
 <6A6E49DC-95AE-4847-B27D-71BE963202B2@m-r-d.de>
Message-ID: <1d1f1dfb-84dc-7bb8-2719-7f232c61d3e1@hyperactivesw.com>

On 5/28/20 5:24 AM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote:
> did you already try to build the .apk without tsNet?  This way you could check if tsNET is involved.
> You need to do the 2 steps before building the .apk
> 1. execute    dispatch "revUnloadLibrary" to stack "tsNetLibUrl"    in message box
> (btw. to load it again after building the standalone execute     dispatch "revLoadLibrary" to stack "tsNetLibUrl" - no need to restart LC IDE )
> 2. if "Select inclusions for..." is selected, then deselect tsNET external in standalone settings.
> 
> Now build the .apk with the keystore.
> If the .apk is able now to download the files although it is signed, then tsNET is involved.

I did this. Without TSNet, the apk works perfectly again. Now I wonder if I can do without 
TSNet for now.

-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu May 28 14:02:10 2020
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 13:02:10 -0500
Subject: Code-signed apk fails
In-Reply-To: <45ae0f17-994c-7680-0455-295584dd2992@gmail.com>
References: <943e05dc-1c05-3f43-ef48-2af5ab363500@hyperactivesw.com>
 <45ae0f17-994c-7680-0455-295584dd2992@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5defa375-ae24-9cf7-382b-697e97a02581@hyperactivesw.com>

I'm fairly sure that's the reason the file dialog didn't enable the .jks file, but the file 
still works. I used Google's terminal command example, which creates .jks files, instead of 
LC's example which I think uses .keystore. Next time I'll change the extension just to make 
file selection easier.

On 5/28/20 6:40 AM, JeeJeeStudio via use-livecode wrote:
> The normal exstension is .keystore , maybe that's the reason?
> 
> 
> Op 28-5-2020 om 08:52 schreef J. Landman Gay via use-livecode:
>> We're about to release an Android app. I've been signing it for development only and it works 
>> well. Today I created a keystore "FPMobile.jks" in Terminal as usual.
>>
>> As an aside, I got this in Terminal:
>> Warning:
>> The JKS keystore uses a proprietary format. It is recommended to migrate to PKCS12 which is 
>> an industry standard format using "keytool -importkeystore -srckeystore FPMobile.jks 
>> -destkeystore FPMobile.jks -deststoretype pkcs12".
>>
>> I don't know if that's significant. I've ignored it in the past, so I went ahead and entered 
>> the jks file in standalone settings. When LC 9.6rc2 asked me to locate the keystore during 
>> the build, I was unable to select it in the file dialog until I chose "All files". That 
>> seemed to work and the build finished.
>>
>> At any rate the real problem:
>>
>> The codesigned app fails to download files from the server. My error log shows that sometimes 
>> there is no error at all but nothing is downloaded, other times the error is vague: "Invalid 
>> URL:" with no URL indicated. The same script and URLs work in the IDE and in the apk when 
>> built without the keystore.
>>
>> I don't think codesigning should affect server queries but that seems to be what's happening. 
>> I rebuilt the apk without any changes except to remove the keystore and it worked perfectly 
>> again. Could TSNet be involved somehow?
>>
>> I'm not sure where to look for the fault. Ideas?
>>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode


-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From paul at researchware.com  Thu May 28 14:24:30 2020
From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis)
Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 14:24:30 -0400
Subject: ADA Compliency
In-Reply-To: <93E5E883-75AC-42AA-8FC8-CB616516E788@clearvisiontech.com>
References: <93E5E883-75AC-42AA-8FC8-CB616516E788@clearvisiontech.com>
Message-ID: <8efbed6d-9df8-39ce-52de-47951c09a99f@researchware.com>

On 5/26/2020 6:56 PM, Dan Friedman via use-livecode wrote:
> Has anyone done anything in regards to ADA compliancy in mobile apps built with LiveCode?   Using the apple or android accessibility tools such as Screen reading, for example.
>
>

I have been periodically looking at assistive technologies for LiveCode 
built applications on desktop platforms (vs mobile) over the years. 
Certain OS bases assistive tool like screen magnifiers do work as they 
are application independent. Unfortunately, screen readers and voice 
recognition tools generally don't work with LiveCode because the 
application independent tools look to act on OS native controls which 
most LC app don't use through out.

With LC 9 and the FFI/Widgets it may be possible to build integration 
libraries for one or more of those assistive tools that require 
application specific integration, but I don't think anyone has done it.

For mobile ADA compliance, you best bet is to test your app with 
whatever OS level assistive tools are provided with iOS and Android or 
look in the associated App store for application independent assistive 
app to test with your app.

If you mobile uses all native controls it *may* work better with OS or 
3rd party assistive tool, but that is a guess. I have no mobile app 
experience.




From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Thu May 28 14:24:31 2020
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 13:24:31 -0500
Subject: Code-signed apk fails
In-Reply-To: <CA+JfEq8GYCrFh=w1EntHsFLHK1iS-hJhFm5GX91WYg+PQ0HXww@mail.gmail.com>
References: <943e05dc-1c05-3f43-ef48-2af5ab363500@hyperactivesw.com>
 <45ae0f17-994c-7680-0455-295584dd2992@gmail.com>
 <CA+JfEq8GYCrFh=w1EntHsFLHK1iS-hJhFm5GX91WYg+PQ0HXww@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <508c67a3-cdce-f51a-cc90-d048e59c69e5@hyperactivesw.com>

Okay, here are the results of my tests, all done in LC 9.6rc2.

1. Keystore: FPMobile.jks, included TSNet: fails to download files
2. Keystore: FPMobile.jks, TSNet removed: works
3. Keystore: FPMobile.keystore, included TSNet: works

So TSNet doesn't like "jks" extensions, which is the file extension Google suggests. But I am 
baffled why a keystore would affect TSNet at all, not to mention it only prevents file 
downloads. The user can log in normally, make php queries to the server and get replies, the 
only thing that fails is actually downloading files.

Panos, is this bug-worthy? Or is it a documentation thing?


On 5/28/20 8:03 AM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode wrote:
> Hello Jacque,
> 
> I did a quick test, I put this in a button:
> 
> get url "https://google.com
> <https://slack-redir.net/link?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgoogle.com>"
> put it into fld "url"
> 
> and signed the .apk with a release.keystore, and it works as expected for
> me. The stack includes tsNet - I used LC 9.6 RC-2 for this.
> 
> Could you file a bug report with a recipe about this issue, and attach your
> stack (or send it to me directly if it is confidential), so as we
> investigate?
> 
> Kind regards,
> Panos
> --
> 



-- 
Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com



From bogdanoff at me.com  Thu May 28 14:28:29 2020
From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff)
Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 11:28:29 -0700
Subject: Special Paste
In-Reply-To: <0002B11F-ADCC-4298-8810-76177382912A@mac.com>
References: <0002B11F-ADCC-4298-8810-76177382912A@mac.com>
Message-ID: <D50E988C-0952-40B3-8A8A-6FE03C691A94@me.com>

Hi Charles,

Is this what you?re looking for?:

put the clipboardData["html"] into tStoredData
put the fullClipboardData["text"] into tData
set the clipboardData to tData
paste
set the clipboardData["html"] to tStoredData

Peter Bogdanoff


> On May 28, 2020, at 7:04 AM, Charles Szasz via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Both Apple's Pages and Microsoft?s Word software have key commands for pasting text into an existing document to match the current formatting (font). How do you script to accomplish this when copying text to the clipboard in a button so the user does not have to use keyboard commands?
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de  Thu May 28 14:58:10 2020
From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de)
Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 20:58:10 +0200
Subject: Code-signed apk fails
In-Reply-To: <508c67a3-cdce-f51a-cc90-d048e59c69e5@hyperactivesw.com>
References: <943e05dc-1c05-3f43-ef48-2af5ab363500@hyperactivesw.com>
 <45ae0f17-994c-7680-0455-295584dd2992@gmail.com>
 <CA+JfEq8GYCrFh=w1EntHsFLHK1iS-hJhFm5GX91WYg+PQ0HXww@mail.gmail.com>
 <508c67a3-cdce-f51a-cc90-d048e59c69e5@hyperactivesw.com>
Message-ID: <C6A0CFA1-82AC-46C8-B484-B83112362641@m-r-d.de>

Good to hear that you?ve found the solution.



-
Matthias Rebbe
Life Is Too Short For Boring Code

> Am 28.05.2020 um 20:24 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Okay, here are the results of my tests, all done in LC 9.6rc2.
> 
> 1. Keystore: FPMobile.jks, included TSNet: fails to download files
> 2. Keystore: FPMobile.jks, TSNet removed: works
> 3. Keystore: FPMobile.keystore, included TSNet: works
> 
> So TSNet doesn't like "jks" extensions, which is the file extension Google suggests. But I am baffled why a keystore would affect TSNet at all, not to mention it only prevents file downloads. The user can log in normally, make php queries to the server and get replies, the only thing that fails is actually downloading files.
> 
> Panos, is this bug-worthy? Or is it a documentation thing?
> 
> 
> On 5/28/20 8:03 AM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hello Jacque,
>> I did a quick test, I put this in a button:
>> get url "https://google.com
>> <https://slack-redir.net/link?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgoogle.com>"
>> put it into fld "url"
>> and signed the .apk with a release.keystore, and it works as expected for
>> me. The stack includes tsNet - I used LC 9.6 RC-2 for this.
>> Could you file a bug report with a recipe about this issue, and attach your
>> stack (or send it to me directly if it is confidential), so as we
>> investigate?
>> Kind regards,
>> Panos
>> --
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay         |     jacque at hyperactivesw.com <mailto:jacque at hyperactivesw.com>
> HyperActive Software           |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com <http://www.hyperactivesw.com/>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode <http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode>


From mark at canelasoftware.com  Thu May 28 22:13:54 2020
From: mark at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto)
Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 19:13:54 -0700
Subject: What have I done now ? (aka CR and LF confusion)
In-Reply-To: <2ceef22f-bd94-6a07-2173-12b817c126d1@sonic.net>
References: <ab0c403e-e95c-89cc-54cf-fb31c7dd03e5@tweedly.net>
 <613799db-2cfb-f24a-03e8-219dd8c29497@fourthworld.com>
 <CA+yhkRYbh0j2TpqZYzhWbtf7doTrPAWA+ycwkDOLz2WiGxpO+A@mail.gmail.com>
 <E00969CB-E9FF-4500-A10A-9C4EDFEB29E6@canelasoftware.com>
 <2ceef22f-bd94-6a07-2173-12b817c126d1@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <525689CF-68B5-430D-A677-F3708DB693F9@canelasoftware.com>

On May 28, 2020, at 10:33 AM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> On 5/28/20 10:17 AM, Mark Talluto via use-livecode wrote:
>> I am a fan of moving Mac to default to LF. We use LF explicitly as our line ending of choice in all of our current software projects.
>> LF is useful if only to natively work with the expected line endings from Github and text files interchanged with Linux servers.
> 
> I agree, but have you tried adjusting your git core.autocrlf settings?

No. I was unaware. While this is very complete of them, standardizing has unified our experience and made it consistent. But, it is good to know that GitHub is accommodating. 


Best regards,

Mark Talluto
livecloud.io <http://livecloud.io/>
nursenotes.net <http://nursenotes.net/>
canelasoftware.com <http://www.canelasoftware.com/>



From curry at pair.com  Fri May 29 07:38:07 2020
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2020 07:38:07 -0400
Subject: ADA Compliency
In-Reply-To: <8efbed6d-9df8-39ce-52de-47951c09a99f@researchware.com>
References: <8efbed6d-9df8-39ce-52de-47951c09a99f@researchware.com>
Message-ID: <9e7e61d5-6d4b-a2ef-888f-ebe383ef0b1f@pair.com>


Assistive tech is a wonderful thing, and yet even when that "compliancy" 
is achieved, the effort is doomed to fall short of real-world needs for 
many people.

That's because the "compliancy" designers tend to think in 
all-or-nothing ideals - and the subset of opinions and studies popular 
in their social/professional cliques - not addressing the reality of 
actual ability ranges in the population. Meanwhile standard UI designers 
tend to throw out some really good ideas. Sometimes people are involved 
in great works, yet still CLUELESS about things that would help a lot of 
real people.

For example I have a neurological/muscular disease that impairs fine 
movement and deforms the hand shape and ability a bit. My hands now look 
like ghost of Christmas past or grim reaper hands. In the past they 
looked almost normal but the movement was already impaired. You don't 
want these hands. I drop things a lot.

Both the nerves and muscles are damaged. That affects using the mouse - 
not a huge effect, but I click a few pixels off-target sometimes. 
Especially since I also have to keep the mouse on a fairly responsive 
movement setting to avoid tiring my arm throughout the day. I'm very 
comfortable using the mouse if set up correctly.

So the old Mac OS had the window Close box on the OPPOSITE side as the 
resize and minimize. That reduced by a large percentage the number of 
misclicks that I had with any important consequences. That was a good 
feature based on actual research and/or logical thinking. It helped me 
achieve more and mess up less.

But Mac OS X threw that and other good things right out the window, in 
favor of "lickable" colored circles side by side. Just like Windows, but 
crammed together into a smaller area that was even more prone to 
misclicks. So Mac was no longer a better interface for me. I switched to 
Windows for my main work, and that helped save energy and improve 
accuracy. That's just one example of many.

And when it came to mobile, Apple made a giant list of HIGs to enforce 
on all software - except for their own software, of course. They broke 
their own rules when they felt like it, and their mobile UI is harder 
for me to use as a result.

Their rules are arbitrary with selective enforcement. And their rules 
(both mobile and desktop) actually sometimes IMPEDE rather than promote 
making UI designs to help people with handicaps and the elderly. Plus 
the rules change based on touchy-feely trends, like the hat fashions of 
yore.

I'm talking about Apple because they are the movers and shakers that 
directed where we are now. Others (MS, Google) largely followed or went 
in a similar direction.

The herd (including the elite producer herd) mostly thinks binary about 
abilities - either you can use a mouse or you can't. But it's not true. 
I can use a mouse pretty darn well, but I have to be careful about 
misclicks. (And sometimes accidental double-clicks that were intended as 
single.)

Thank goodness we do have some comfort adjustments such as mouse 
sensitivity and double-click time, etc. That's smart. But when it comes 
to "accessibility" the old binary thinking kicks in and the options and 
design are often pretty retarded, and only realistic for a smaller 
subset of the portion of our population that has some type of impairment.

Thankfully they may be focusing on the most heavily impaired, so that's 
good to at least help some people, but even then, I've had some 
experience with those and when I see "compliancy" I tend to shake my 
head. (And worry about the future as my own impairments grow.) Ideals 
and cliques/trends vs reality....

What we often need is some SMART, to use that word as a noun the way 
Andy Griffith did. UI needs to be smart. Standards can be good, but when 
a group starts making standards or guidelines, they often design it 
partly dumb/bad, and inflict as much harm as good. It could be so much 
better. Desktop and mobile.

It's the same with physical products. I can't open Amazon's 
"frustration-free" packaging even with pliers. Whoever designed and 
approved that one was seriously out of touch with reality - a total 
farce. I can open a regular taped box easily with a cutter. Similar 
results happen sometimes in software, when good efforts go bad. If only 
more of these efforts could be compliant AND smart!

Society needs to mature enough to reality that there is a pretty wide 
range of ability. I can do things on a computer (with a mouse) that 
would amaze many people, yet I have those misclicks and double-clicks to 
watch out for.

I can (or could) do a wide range of voices/accents, which most people 
can't do, yet I've had several periods in life (including right now 
after COVID for many weeks and ongoing) when I can only say a few words 
without getting out of breath. I've had to cancel meetings, and am 
getting set up to make instructional videos WITHOUT talking.

I can hear and see quite well and I catch many proofreading errors that 
others miss and can spot mistakes in code instantly sometimes (one 
client calls it my superpower!) yet my eyes can't tolerate the UI "dark 
mode" that's trending. I am a great listener (another superpower) yet 
can't make out the words quite as well when listening as most people do, 
especially for song lyrics or speeches/TV shows. For those I like to 
turn on CC just in case.

Ability ranges....

Best wishes,

Curry K.



From harrison at all-auctions.com  Fri May 29 10:04:04 2020
From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2020 10:04:04 -0400
Subject: ADA Compliency
In-Reply-To: <9e7e61d5-6d4b-a2ef-888f-ebe383ef0b1f@pair.com>
References: <8efbed6d-9df8-39ce-52de-47951c09a99f@researchware.com>
 <9e7e61d5-6d4b-a2ef-888f-ebe383ef0b1f@pair.com>
Message-ID: <A8437FF4-7562-4D64-81AD-747B47BFE455@all-auctions.com>

Hi Curry,

I have a couple of questions for you.

Is a trackpad or a trackball any better of an experience for you?

Have you tried using the mac OS voice commands or controls?

Dragon Dictate used to have voice commands and I seem to
recall you could make your own too.  I don?t recall if that was
by using Apple Script or hooking it into Automator.

The compliance thing really has to be built into the operating system.
I think Apple used to be better about it, and I think every few years
they try again to see if it can be made better.  Apple has the money
and resources to do it. Small developers don?t have the money or
resources and they fail a lot just trying to make user interfaces that 
people without disabilities use.

Sorry to hear about your difficulties. I hope you are able to find
solutions that work for you. 

Cheers,

Rick



> On May 29, 2020, at 7:38 AM, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> Assistive tech is a wonderful thing, and yet even when that "compliancy" is achieved, the effort is doomed to fall short of real-world needs for many people.
> 
> That's because the "compliancy" designers tend to think in all-or-nothing ideals - and the subset of opinions and studies popular in their social/professional cliques - not addressing the reality of actual ability ranges in the population. Meanwhile standard UI designers tend to throw out some really good ideas. Sometimes people are involved in great works, yet still CLUELESS about things that would help a lot of real people.
> 
> For example I have a neurological/muscular disease that impairs fine movement and deforms the hand shape and ability a bit. My hands now look like ghost of Christmas past or grim reaper hands. In the past they looked almost normal but the movement was already impaired. You don't want these hands. I drop things a lot.
> 
> Both the nerves and muscles are damaged. That affects using the mouse - not a huge effect, but I click a few pixels off-target sometimes. Especially since I also have to keep the mouse on a fairly responsive movement setting to avoid tiring my arm throughout the day. I'm very comfortable using the mouse if set up correctly.
> 
> So the old Mac OS had the window Close box on the OPPOSITE side as the resize and minimize. That reduced by a large percentage the number of misclicks that I had with any important consequences. That was a good feature based on actual research and/or logical thinking. It helped me achieve more and mess up less.
> 
> But Mac OS X threw that and other good things right out the window, in favor of "lickable" colored circles side by side. Just like Windows, but crammed together into a smaller area that was even more prone to misclicks. So Mac was no longer a better interface for me. I switched to Windows for my main work, and that helped save energy and improve accuracy. That's just one example of many.
> 
> And when it came to mobile, Apple made a giant list of HIGs to enforce on all software - except for their own software, of course. They broke their own rules when they felt like it, and their mobile UI is harder for me to use as a result.
> 
> Their rules are arbitrary with selective enforcement. And their rules (both mobile and desktop) actually sometimes IMPEDE rather than promote making UI designs to help people with handicaps and the elderly. Plus the rules change based on touchy-feely trends, like the hat fashions of yore.
> 
> I'm talking about Apple because they are the movers and shakers that directed where we are now. Others (MS, Google) largely followed or went in a similar direction.
> 
> The herd (including the elite producer herd) mostly thinks binary about abilities - either you can use a mouse or you can't. But it's not true. I can use a mouse pretty darn well, but I have to be careful about misclicks. (And sometimes accidental double-clicks that were intended as single.)
> 
> Thank goodness we do have some comfort adjustments such as mouse sensitivity and double-click time, etc. That's smart. But when it comes to "accessibility" the old binary thinking kicks in and the options and design are often pretty retarded, and only realistic for a smaller subset of the portion of our population that has some type of impairment.
> 
> Thankfully they may be focusing on the most heavily impaired, so that's good to at least help some people, but even then, I've had some experience with those and when I see "compliancy" I tend to shake my head. (And worry about the future as my own impairments grow.) Ideals and cliques/trends vs reality....
> 
> What we often need is some SMART, to use that word as a noun the way Andy Griffith did. UI needs to be smart. Standards can be good, but when a group starts making standards or guidelines, they often design it partly dumb/bad, and inflict as much harm as good. It could be so much better. Desktop and mobile.
> 
> It's the same with physical products. I can't open Amazon's "frustration-free" packaging even with pliers. Whoever designed and approved that one was seriously out of touch with reality - a total farce. I can open a regular taped box easily with a cutter. Similar results happen sometimes in software, when good efforts go bad. If only more of these efforts could be compliant AND smart!
> 
> Society needs to mature enough to reality that there is a pretty wide range of ability. I can do things on a computer (with a mouse) that would amaze many people, yet I have those misclicks and double-clicks to watch out for.
> 
> I can (or could) do a wide range of voices/accents, which most people can't do, yet I've had several periods in life (including right now after COVID for many weeks and ongoing) when I can only say a few words without getting out of breath. I've had to cancel meetings, and am getting set up to make instructional videos WITHOUT talking.
> 
> I can hear and see quite well and I catch many proofreading errors that others miss and can spot mistakes in code instantly sometimes (one client calls it my superpower!) yet my eyes can't tolerate the UI "dark mode" that's trending. I am a great listener (another superpower) yet can't make out the words quite as well when listening as most people do, especially for song lyrics or speeches/TV shows. For those I like to turn on CC just in case.
> 
> Ability ranges....
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Curry K.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From klaus at major-k.de  Fri May 29 10:13:42 2020
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2020 16:13:42 +0200
Subject: REducing image size of resized image
Message-ID: <BA09883A-1618-4629-85E3-316822B6B1DD@major-k.de>

Hi all,

there was a trick to reduce the size of a scaled-down image.
Was that: set the text of img 1 to the imagedata of img 1
?

Thank you for a quick answer!


Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
klaus at major-k.de




From klaus at major-k.de  Fri May 29 10:56:50 2020
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2020 16:56:50 +0200
Subject: REducing image size of resized image
In-Reply-To: <BA09883A-1618-4629-85E3-316822B6B1DD@major-k.de>
References: <BA09883A-1618-4629-85E3-316822B6B1DD@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <FA626C44-F764-4C2C-BF2D-AD811D29F6E2@major-k.de>



> Am 29.05.2020 um 16:13 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> there was a trick to reduce the size of a scaled-down image.
> Was that: set the text of img 1 to the imagedata of img 1
> ?

tried that, but did not work, scaled-down (200*200 px) image still remains "hi-res" (2000*2000 px)
Any hints?

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
klaus at major-k.de




From klaus at major-k.de  Fri May 29 11:17:09 2020
From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2020 17:17:09 +0200
Subject: REducing image size of resized image
In-Reply-To: <FA626C44-F764-4C2C-BF2D-AD811D29F6E2@major-k.de>
References: <BA09883A-1618-4629-85E3-316822B6B1DD@major-k.de>
 <FA626C44-F764-4C2C-BF2D-AD811D29F6E2@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <890834A5-A4E1-41F6-8E9F-32867B7E6999@major-k.de>


> Am 29.05.2020 um 16:56 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
>> Am 29.05.2020 um 16:13 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> there was a trick to reduce the size of a scaled-down image.
>> Was that: set the text of img 1 to the imagedata of img 1
>> ?
> 
> tried that, but did not work, scaled-down (200*200 px) image still remains "hi-res" (2000*2000 px)
> Any hints?

FYI It was actually:
set the IMAGEDATA of img 1 to the imagedata of img 1

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
klaus at major-k.de




From curry at pair.com  Fri May 29 13:09:30 2020
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2020 13:09:30 -0400
Subject: ADA Compliency
In-Reply-To: <A8437FF4-7562-4D64-81AD-747B47BFE455@all-auctions.com>
References: <A8437FF4-7562-4D64-81AD-747B47BFE455@all-auctions.com>
Message-ID: <523f9bc6-2f68-4358-6887-92af0ce11281@pair.com>


Rick:

 > I have a couple of questions for you.

Thanks Rick! I do appreciate the concern. But in my post, your questions 
were already either answered or otherwise addressed before you asked. I 
anticipated them; I know what makes people tick! So I'll "re-answer" 
partly by quoting myself.

But when certain memes are burned so deep into community psyche that 
answers bounce right off, I feel like we're heading back toward the old 
failed group think. The same old patronizing ideas and faulty 
assumptions, while actually ignoring both the main point and the details 
of what I posted about UI.

Somehow we have to SHOUT louder than those old memes to get through!

 > Is a trackpad or a trackball any better of an experience for you?

Heck no! Emphatically no. Much, much worse. Much more difficult. That's 
why I emphasized my mouse use already, to avoid precisely this type of 
inevitable question. Just be aware that the old oh handicap people 
should use blah blah mindset - the memes are sometimes true, but more 
often not.

Mouse = good. For handicap man too!
Trashing a UI to replace scientific arrangement with lickable = bad.

I said: "I'm very comfortable using the mouse if set up correctly. I 
switched to Windows for my main work, and that helped save energy and 
improve accuracy."

Thus, problem mostly solved on my end, at least when using apps and web 
sites with non-crappy UI. Pretty easy solution. Handicap man happy.

But problem not solved on Apple's end. Handicap man sad for Apple!
It really was a lousy move, destroying a once superior interface.

 > Have you tried using the mac OS voice commands or controls?

Strike two! Think carefully about the implications of what I said: "I 
can only say a few words without getting out of breath."

For people with good breathing, this is a very good thing for typing or 
for no-hands computer use. But imagining it would be more efficient than 
mouse for the ability levels I described - and imagining I'm suffering 
here because I just haven't tried trackpad or voice recognition (I've 
built Mac apps with voice recognition) - no way. Totally unrealistic!

Now, a mental interface might be good, that's another story. Some 
interest there, for the future. But I'm not anywhere near ready for that 
yet. Privacy concerns etc, plus very importantly - use it or lose it. 
Without that exercise, the fingers are toast, and I need those guys. 
Maybe when I'm 80. Maybe I'll design it myself now and use it then.

 > Apple has the money and resources to do it.

No, probably they don't. They can't. They don't have the brains (or the 
paradigm) to allow them to do it, not anymore. Not for any amount of 
money; mental assets are the most crucial. It's sad. I was a huge fan.

But enough about Apple - as I said, this is a pretty-much universal 
problem. Only using them as a small example of the problems:

- Binary thinking about physical abilities
- Trotting out the same faulty memes and assumptions
- Placing form above function, subjective over objective
- Ignoring handicapped voices that don't fit the mold
- Why being "compliant" will still fail many users

Ignoring the reality that abilities vary - and not even just a range 
along one continuum, but a real mixture of strengths and weaknesses in 
many mental and physical areas. I actually feel like a superman in some 
areas. I bring heavy strengths to the table, as my clients know.

Here's one more attempt to break through the group think. Really THINK 
HARD about this, and don't let it automatically bounce off, try to allow 
it into your mind. You may have to adjust some old assumptions, and if 
so that's good:

In certain ways, I might use a mouse more skillfully than you. It's 
possible; I'm pretty good, and I'm one heck of an adept user. At 
computer 16+ hours a day for both work and rest; I rely on it a LOT for 
all things, since I can't go out and about. In other ways I'm definitely 
worse than you, guaranteed. Some misclicks and doubles. Neurology.

But it's NOT so simple - and in fact so backwards - as oh, he's 
handicapped, he shouldn't use a mouse. (Even though he just said he does 
it well; he's handicapped, so we'll just ignore most of what he says.)

No, no, no, NO! Quite the opposite. This is missing the point, tossing 
most of the actual content, and adopting assumptions that are exactly 
opposite of the real situation. I MUST have a good ergonomic full-sized 
mouse or I can't use the computer at all. I have several backup mice in 
storage for instant swap. With a track pad I'm exhausted in a few 
minutes. Of course I've tried it! That is the reality.

If these popular but faulty memes are so appealing that actual reality 
must be discarded to uphold them, that's sad too. Don't let reality 
bounce off. If we are open to improving our knowledge and perceptions, 
life can improve so much, and progress can happen much faster!

BTW, this mouse versus window UI issue dates way back, to the time of OS 
X introduction. And my muscle and neurology impairments date back, 
likewise. It has been the case for the majority of my many years on this 
list (think carefully how long that has been) and during that time I've 
produced more than the average person! I've done pretty well with my mouse.

That problem was mostly solved long ago - to a reasonable extent. I 
probably couldn't send these message, much less be one of the top coders 
in this community, otherwise. Right? Think about it! Like I say, these 
popular memes and assumptions are so strong that they seen to just 
short-circuit the thinking process at time. But that's OK!

Nowadays the bigger problem is overall energy being sapped by the 
neurology, and I'm working on some next-gen dev solutions for that. 
It'll help people with normal physical ability too; good things are 
coming but it takes some time.

People instinctively tend to assign less weight to info from handicapped 
voices, and ignore whatever bucks the popular trend. That's how society 
works. But that's OK; I'm very much in the business of bucking trends 
and disproving faulty assumptions, and over time I'm winning. It's worth 
it to get new thoughts and improvements out there.

As always, I'm just popping up here to share some accurate and 
potentially valuable ($$$) info from one who really knows and has the 
FIRST-HAND experience plus the tech expertise, to benefit open minds and 
further good projects. Physical abilities are not all-or-nothing! And UI 
matters!

I hope it helps some people. Whether it's OS or app, big corporation or 
lone coder, good solid logical UI is always worthwhile, and bad UI is 
like a disease that keeps on giving. Just like bad code - avoid both 
like the plague they are. Your good code and UI can make a much bigger 
difference than you think. Thanks again....

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/



From jeejeestudio at gmail.com  Fri May 29 14:46:13 2020
From: jeejeestudio at gmail.com (JeeJeeStudio)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2020 20:46:13 +0200
Subject: REducing image size of resized image
In-Reply-To: <890834A5-A4E1-41F6-8E9F-32867B7E6999@major-k.de>
References: <BA09883A-1618-4629-85E3-316822B6B1DD@major-k.de>
 <FA626C44-F764-4C2C-BF2D-AD811D29F6E2@major-k.de>
 <890834A5-A4E1-41F6-8E9F-32867B7E6999@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <23df8536-df18-aaae-72ce-86572050d3bb@gmail.com>

Sie sind Ihre eigene Meister


Op 29-5-2020 om 17:17 schreef Klaus major-k via use-livecode:
>> Am 29.05.2020 um 16:56 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>
>>> Am 29.05.2020 um 16:13 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> there was a trick to reduce the size of a scaled-down image.
>>> Was that: set the text of img 1 to the imagedata of img 1
>>> ?
>> tried that, but did not work, scaled-down (200*200 px) image still remains "hi-res" (2000*2000 px)
>> Any hints?
> FYI It was actually:
> set the IMAGEDATA of img 1 to the imagedata of img 1
>
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> klaus at major-k.de
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From richmondmathewson at gmail.com  Fri May 29 15:15:50 2020
From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2020 22:15:50 +0300
Subject: REducing image size of resized image
In-Reply-To: <BA09883A-1618-4629-85E3-316822B6B1DD@major-k.de>
References: <BA09883A-1618-4629-85E3-316822B6B1DD@major-k.de>
Message-ID: <CAL3fwtioRfDDxLycZdiUjZgYYpZ=cpk9EcFKxWRwkTS7qtNMMQ@mail.gmail.com>

Just do it externally in GIMP.  I do it all the time. Whoops, I'm drunk,
but it's my wife's birthday.

On Fri, May 29, 2020, 5:13 PM Klaus major-k via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> there was a trick to reduce the size of a scaled-down image.
> Was that: set the text of img 1 to the imagedata of img 1
> ?
>
> Thank you for a quick answer!
>
>
> Best
>
> Klaus
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> klaus at major-k.de
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


From harrison at all-auctions.com  Fri May 29 15:41:58 2020
From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2020 15:41:58 -0400
Subject: ADA Compliency
In-Reply-To: <523f9bc6-2f68-4358-6887-92af0ce11281@pair.com>
References: <A8437FF4-7562-4D64-81AD-747B47BFE455@all-auctions.com>
 <523f9bc6-2f68-4358-6887-92af0ce11281@pair.com>
Message-ID: <32894082-6999-44A4-B001-AAB5DCAD6956@all-auctions.com>

Hi Curry,

Sorry I tried to answer, or to be helpful, or to ask any questions.
I had no intentions of getting your blood pressure up.  

I once made a talking calculator to help other people, and all
I got was pushback from others with bad attitudes.
Then people wonder why no one wants to help.

I have a friend who makes prosthetic hands for children.
He 3D prints them all and each is custom made.  He
doesn?t charge for his service at all.

I?ve met people who can do extraordinary art, and work
with a computer and their mobile wheelchairs with nothing
but their mouths.  

Most developers are struggling just to survive in our present
environment where no one wants to pay for software anymore,
and that is with trying to reach huge markets. People with
physical disabilities is a much smaller market so there isn?t
enough development going on in that area.

I?m glad your mouse works for you. I hope you can continue
to use it into your 80?s.

Sorry to bother you.

Rick

> On May 29, 2020, at 1:09 PM, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> Rick:
> 
> > I have a couple of questions for you.
> 
> Thanks Rick! I do appreciate the concern. But in my post, your questions were already either answered or otherwise addressed before you asked. I anticipated them; I know what makes people tick! So I'll "re-answer" partly by quoting myself.
> 
> But when certain memes are burned so deep into community psyche that answers bounce right off, I feel like we're heading back toward the old failed group think. The same old patronizing ideas and faulty assumptions, while actually ignoring both the main point and the details of what I posted about UI.
> 
> Somehow we have to SHOUT louder than those old memes to get through!
> 
> > Is a trackpad or a trackball any better of an experience for you?
> 
> Heck no! Emphatically no. Much, much worse. Much more difficult. That's why I emphasized my mouse use already, to avoid precisely this type of inevitable question. Just be aware that the old oh handicap people should use blah blah mindset - the memes are sometimes true, but more often not.
> 
> Mouse = good. For handicap man too!
> Trashing a UI to replace scientific arrangement with lickable = bad.
> 
> I said: "I'm very comfortable using the mouse if set up correctly. I switched to Windows for my main work, and that helped save energy and improve accuracy."
> 
> Thus, problem mostly solved on my end, at least when using apps and web sites with non-crappy UI. Pretty easy solution. Handicap man happy.
> 
> But problem not solved on Apple's end. Handicap man sad for Apple!
> It really was a lousy move, destroying a once superior interface.
> 
> > Have you tried using the mac OS voice commands or controls?
> 
> Strike two! Think carefully about the implications of what I said: "I can only say a few words without getting out of breath."
> 
> For people with good breathing, this is a very good thing for typing or for no-hands computer use. But imagining it would be more efficient than mouse for the ability levels I described - and imagining I'm suffering here because I just haven't tried trackpad or voice recognition (I've built Mac apps with voice recognition) - no way. Totally unrealistic!
> 
> Now, a mental interface might be good, that's another story. Some interest there, for the future. But I'm not anywhere near ready for that yet. Privacy concerns etc, plus very importantly - use it or lose it. Without that exercise, the fingers are toast, and I need those guys. Maybe when I'm 80. Maybe I'll design it myself now and use it then.
> 
> > Apple has the money and resources to do it.
> 
> No, probably they don't. They can't. They don't have the brains (or the paradigm) to allow them to do it, not anymore. Not for any amount of money; mental assets are the most crucial. It's sad. I was a huge fan.
> 
> But enough about Apple - as I said, this is a pretty-much universal problem. Only using them as a small example of the problems:
> 
> - Binary thinking about physical abilities
> - Trotting out the same faulty memes and assumptions
> - Placing form above function, subjective over objective
> - Ignoring handicapped voices that don't fit the mold
> - Why being "compliant" will still fail many users
> 
> Ignoring the reality that abilities vary - and not even just a range along one continuum, but a real mixture of strengths and weaknesses in many mental and physical areas. I actually feel like a superman in some areas. I bring heavy strengths to the table, as my clients know.
> 
> Here's one more attempt to break through the group think. Really THINK HARD about this, and don't let it automatically bounce off, try to allow it into your mind. You may have to adjust some old assumptions, and if so that's good:
> 
> In certain ways, I might use a mouse more skillfully than you. It's possible; I'm pretty good, and I'm one heck of an adept user. At computer 16+ hours a day for both work and rest; I rely on it a LOT for all things, since I can't go out and about. In other ways I'm definitely worse than you, guaranteed. Some misclicks and doubles. Neurology.
> 
> But it's NOT so simple - and in fact so backwards - as oh, he's handicapped, he shouldn't use a mouse. (Even though he just said he does it well; he's handicapped, so we'll just ignore most of what he says.)
> 
> No, no, no, NO! Quite the opposite. This is missing the point, tossing most of the actual content, and adopting assumptions that are exactly opposite of the real situation. I MUST have a good ergonomic full-sized mouse or I can't use the computer at all. I have several backup mice in storage for instant swap. With a track pad I'm exhausted in a few minutes. Of course I've tried it! That is the reality.
> 
> If these popular but faulty memes are so appealing that actual reality must be discarded to uphold them, that's sad too. Don't let reality bounce off. If we are open to improving our knowledge and perceptions, life can improve so much, and progress can happen much faster!
> 
> BTW, this mouse versus window UI issue dates way back, to the time of OS X introduction. And my muscle and neurology impairments date back, likewise. It has been the case for the majority of my many years on this list (think carefully how long that has been) and during that time I've produced more than the average person! I've done pretty well with my mouse.
> 
> That problem was mostly solved long ago - to a reasonable extent. I probably couldn't send these message, much less be one of the top coders in this community, otherwise. Right? Think about it! Like I say, these popular memes and assumptions are so strong that they seen to just short-circuit the thinking process at time. But that's OK!
> 
> Nowadays the bigger problem is overall energy being sapped by the neurology, and I'm working on some next-gen dev solutions for that. It'll help people with normal physical ability too; good things are coming but it takes some time.
> 
> People instinctively tend to assign less weight to info from handicapped voices, and ignore whatever bucks the popular trend. That's how society works. But that's OK; I'm very much in the business of bucking trends and disproving faulty assumptions, and over time I'm winning. It's worth it to get new thoughts and improvements out there.
> 
> As always, I'm just popping up here to share some accurate and potentially valuable ($$$) info from one who really knows and has the FIRST-HAND experience plus the tech expertise, to benefit open minds and further good projects. Physical abilities are not all-or-nothing! And UI matters!
> 
> I hope it helps some people. Whether it's OS or app, big corporation or lone coder, good solid logical UI is always worthwhile, and bad UI is like a disease that keeps on giving. Just like bad code - avoid both like the plague they are. Your good code and UI can make a much bigger difference than you think. Thanks again....
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Curry Kenworthy
> 
> Custom Software Development
> "Better Methods, Better Results"
> LiveCode Training and Consulting
> http://livecodeconsulting.com/
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From waprothero at gmail.com  Fri May 29 18:42:27 2020
From: waprothero at gmail.com (William Prothero)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2020 15:42:27 -0700
Subject: Map Widget - how does it actually work?
In-Reply-To: <34AD2C54-7C6E-4796-AEF7-8C7BCE2E9A06@mac.com>
References: <34AD2C54-7C6E-4796-AEF7-8C7BCE2E9A06@mac.com>
Message-ID: <C9FC7C1F-4A2E-4F52-A407-46305CA89300@gmail.com>

Graham:
Here is a link to an example that I, with lots of help from Hermann created. Maybe it will be useful. All done in livecode, so it should work. Haven?t tried it since 2017, tho.
Bill

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kg5l80bi82u1sap/google-maps-demo.livecode?dl=0 <https://www.dropbox.com/s/kg5l80bi82u1sap/google-maps-demo.livecode?dl=0>

William A. Prothero
https://earthlearningsolutions.org

> On May 25, 2020, at 1:57 PM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Back to my problems with inadequate documentation on widgets. The Map widget is probably very powerful, but the Dictionary entry simple tells you the names of the parameters. I can?t work out anything about the format of the data you can feed in, or what it looks like when it comes out. There isn?t even enough info to start a meaningful experiment, IMHO.
> 
> Does anyone know of a source of helpful documentation on this? I am as ever interested in the iOS version.
> 
> Thanks for any info.
> 
> Graham
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org  Fri May 29 18:44:58 2020
From: prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org (prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2020 15:44:58 -0700
Subject: Map Widget - how does it actually work?
In-Reply-To: <C9FC7C1F-4A2E-4F52-A407-46305CA89300@gmail.com>
References: <34AD2C54-7C6E-4796-AEF7-8C7BCE2E9A06@mac.com>
 <C9FC7C1F-4A2E-4F52-A407-46305CA89300@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D40634A2-5DC3-40FF-B906-F1E63371FD31@earthlearningsolutions.org>

Graham:
If that doesn?t have everything, I have a zip file at:
http://earthlearningsolutions.org/google-static-maps-demo/ <http://earthlearningsolutions.org/google-static-maps-demo/>
William A. Prothero
Santa Barbara, CA. 93105
http://earthlearningsolutions.org/

> On May 29, 2020, at 3:42 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Graham:
> Here is a link to an example that I, with lots of help from Hermann created. Maybe it will be useful. All done in livecode, so it should work. Haven?t tried it since 2017, tho.
> Bill
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/kg5l80bi82u1sap/google-maps-demo.livecode?dl=0 <https://www.dropbox.com/s/kg5l80bi82u1sap/google-maps-demo.livecode?dl=0>
> 
> William A. Prothero
> https://earthlearningsolutions.org
> 
>> On May 25, 2020, at 1:57 PM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Back to my problems with inadequate documentation on widgets. The Map widget is probably very powerful, but the Dictionary entry simple tells you the names of the parameters. I can?t work out anything about the format of the data you can feed in, or what it looks like when it comes out. There isn?t even enough info to start a meaningful experiment, IMHO.
>> 
>> Does anyone know of a source of helpful documentation on this? I am as ever interested in the iOS version.
>> 
>> Thanks for any info.
>> 
>> Graham
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From curry at pair.com  Fri May 29 19:21:54 2020
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2020 19:21:54 -0400
Subject: ADA Compliency
In-Reply-To: <32894082-6999-44A4-B001-AAB5DCAD6956@all-auctions.com>
References: <32894082-6999-44A4-B001-AAB5DCAD6956@all-auctions.com>
Message-ID: <066cb29a-b201-bc79-5b1d-6a30c0a45de7@pair.com>


Rick, I thanked you for your concern. I'll thank you once again. Your 
questions were just a little bit off target, just like some of my 
clicks; but that's OK. I heard you, and I responded to your actual 
points. Here are my points again:

Ability is not all-or-nothing. We need to look at the middle too.
Good UI can help many people function better and bad UI can hinder them.

For every person missing a hand or completely paralyzed, there's someone 
else in-between. Having body parts, and able to move them, able to see, 
but with real legally and medically recognized moderate to severe 
limitations in mobility, agility and so on.

Folks love the extreme examples at the ends, just like those you 
mentioned, and I'm so glad there are more solutions these days. BTW eye 
tracking is another good tech. I've worked on adaptive tech. But looking 
at the very ends doesn't erase the full range of handicaps.

With my hands and arms I couldn't open a food package without scissors 
to save my life. I have many limits. But luckily I can use mouse and 
keyboard proficiently usually, with just a few caveats like what I 
mentioned, and a gradual progression of the impairments.

I'm in wheelchair 95% of waking time (versus 90% last year) but that's 
OK with a computer; tech is wonderful! Energy has become the bigger 
problem, and when you have serious limitations you spend a lot of that 
energy doing the silly mundane things like trips to the bathroom, or 
meals, and having to really rest after those. Today had another feature 
- my throat muscles decided to take the day off, so I couldn't swallow 
much at all. Had to skip a meal and drink less! But as you see, I could 
still type well today, so I consider it a good day.

People greatly benefit from special adaptive tech. I'm an enthusiast 
there too. But often the real adaptive tech is going overboard for 
people with moderate ability; not efficient in that case. I require 
adaptive equipment for mobility, but use standard computer laptop with 
mouse. Many people with impairments can benefit from standard tech (BTW 
that means the bigger audience, and more money that you mentioned) with 
SMART DESIGN. That's what I keep saying, and I'm not sure you noticed 
it. It's not theory or opinion, but real life experience.

Trends and schools of thought come and go, but that reality is going 
nowhere. Until of course robotics and medical advances erase the 
handicaps themselves. But even then - good UI will still matter. And 
best of all it's a twofer; it helps the sound as well as the lame. :)

Sometimes just a matter of avoiding really lousy/stupid design choices. 
It's literally that simple. Sometimes the more accessible product is 
already there, and the company spends money to make it much worse! I 
gave two real-world examples that impacted me, one for UI and one for a 
physical product. I could give others. It's common, easily avoidable.

But that takes certain resources that sometimes no amount of money can 
buy when a company is locked into what I consider a self-imposed 
mentally handicapped mindset. Similar to what Dilbert always covered so 
well. Good software and OS require a smart approach and sensible 
decisions for UI. Without that, even with ADA compliance, many impaired 
users will remain poorly served! (And normal users too, although less 
impacted.) That is the point. It doesn't take a fortune, because the 
money is being spent either way. The difference is making good choices, 
which are surprisingly rare! Hopefully that'll change soon.

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/



From alex at tweedly.net  Fri May 29 21:26:11 2020
From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly)
Date: Sat, 30 May 2020 02:26:11 +0100
Subject: ADA Compliency
In-Reply-To: <523f9bc6-2f68-4358-6887-92af0ce11281@pair.com>
References: <A8437FF4-7562-4D64-81AD-747B47BFE455@all-auctions.com>
 <523f9bc6-2f68-4358-6887-92af0ce11281@pair.com>
Message-ID: <1fa173a4-df50-a0d5-6af9-ea7673e8e897@tweedly.net>

On 29/05/2020 18:09, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode wrote:

>
> > Have you tried using the mac OS voice commands or controls?
>
> Strike two! 
I think that's a bad call.
> Think carefully about the implications of what I said: "I can only say 
> a few words without getting out of breath."

You are quoting yourself without adequate context. The fuller version of 
what you said was

> yet I've had several periods in life (including right now after COVID 
> for many weeks and ongoing) when I can only say a few words without 
> getting out of breath. 
That implies you've had several periods when you did *not* suffer badly 
from shortness of breath., and therefore may well have experience with 
voice input. So I think your rather condescending attempted put-down was 
wrong.

Indeed, I could make a similar evaluation of the first part of your 
response; although you described your (mostly) successful use of a 
mouse, you did not mention your experiences with trackball or trackpad. 
The mere fact that you regularly use one method doesn't mean that you 
haven't also used the others, so it seems a worthwhile question to ask 
for your valuable insights into use of those.

And I'll add a third example of usability declining over time (my wife 
has a neurological condition that is probably on the same scale as yours 
- though of course it will be entire different in detailed effects).

Trackpads are very difficult for her to use. It's not just the X,Y issue 
- it's the third dimension of getting enough touch to be noticed, 
without inadvertently being too firm and having that be counted as a 
button press. This is less of a problem on Windows (specifically HP 
laptops) than it is on Macs, but still an issue. A few years ago, HP had 
many laptops with a trackpad *and* two buttons below it (i.e. nearer to 
the user). That was easy to use compared to modern laptops (though of 
course that has to be tempered with the fact that those laptops died 
years ago, so her fine motor capabilities are much poorer now than they 
were when she used those older HPs).

Alex.



From paul at livecode.org  Fri May 29 22:47:24 2020
From: paul at livecode.org (Paul Hibbert)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2020 19:47:24 -0700
Subject: Special Paste
In-Reply-To: <0002B11F-ADCC-4298-8810-76177382912A@mac.com>
References: <0002B11F-ADCC-4298-8810-76177382912A@mac.com>
Message-ID: <D3DE9A5D-0FB8-4581-96B4-94F0538AF5F6@livecode.org>

Hi Charles,

Your examples are about pasting;

> Both Apple's Pages and Microsoft?s Word software have key commands for pasting text into an existing document to match the current formatting (font).

But, your question is about copying;

> How do you script to accomplish this when copying text to the clipboard in a button so the user does not have to use keyboard commands?

However, you can manipulate the clipBoardData both when when copying and pasting if you wish.

When copying the text, if you want the clipboard to contain unformatted (Plain) text, then use this in a ?Copy Unformatted" button:

   on mouseUp
       set the clipBoardData["text"] to the selection
   end mouseUp

Or when pasting unformatted text, use this in a ?Paste Unformatted? (= ?Paste and Match Style or Paste and Match Formatting?) button:

   on mouseUp
       put the clipBoardData["text"] into the selection
   end mouseUp

Or if your app has a menu, then your Edit Menu script may look something like this:

on menuPick pWhich
   switch pWhich
      case "Cut"
         Cut
         break
      case "Copy"
         Copy
         break
      case "Copy Plain Text"
         set the clipBoardData["text"] to the selection
         break
      case "Paste"
         Paste
         break
      case "Paste and Match Style"
         put the clipBoardData["text"] into the selection
         break
      case "Clear"
         Clear
         break
      case "Preferences"
         go cd "Preferences"
         break
   end switch
end menuPick

By pasting Unformatted Text, the pasted text will take on the style of the text at the selection point.

clipBoardData in the Dictionary explains more.

Have fun.

Paul



> On May 28, 2020, at 07:04, Charles Szasz via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Both Apple's Pages and Microsoft?s Word software have key commands for pasting text into an existing document to match the current formatting (font). How do you script to accomplish this when copying text to the clipboard in a button so the user does not have to use keyboard commands?
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From curry at pair.com  Sat May 30 01:03:33 2020
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Sat, 30 May 2020 01:03:33 -0400
Subject: ADA Compliency
In-Reply-To: <1fa173a4-df50-a0d5-6af9-ea7673e8e897@tweedly.net>
References: <1fa173a4-df50-a0d5-6af9-ea7673e8e897@tweedly.net>
Message-ID: <aef0a1c2-d610-ad1d-7199-f82569a4b072@pair.com>


Alex:

 > You are quoting yourself without adequate context.

Ah yes, I'm trying to keep what I said a big secret, right? :)

Quite the reverse - I was drawing attention to my original post, which 
is readily available in its entirety, which is typically what I suggest.

 > The fuller version of what you said was [...]

No, that's not quite the fuller version. Your quote still omits the most 
important context of all, which could easily mislead a hapless reader. 
That is, the context of its topic and main thrust, which you skirt.

My post was NOT primarily about my trouble with the mouse, or rather 
with Mac UI. It was about good and bad UI design and how these choices 
can have bigger consequences, plus the need to recognize a range of 
ability. Otherwise ADA or other compliance will fall short for many.

My hands/mouse versus Mac OS X UI was an EXAMPLE in that context. I use 
that example from time to time (this was not the first mention) because 
it had a fairly big impact on my life.

Luckily there was an alternative OS readily available to solve the 
problem, and - again, to a reasonable extent - that DID ALREADY SOLVE 
the problem. As I indicated in my first post, and emphasized in my 2nd.

That was more of a UI than a hardware problem, in my case, and in the 
very important "fuller context" of my post.

 > So I think your rather condescending attempted put-down was wrong.

Attempted put-down? Wow, this is going way off-course and into the realm 
of fantasy. No put-downs yet of individuals here, by my count! Simply 
laying that particular line of questioning to rest for the 2nd time 
(also by my count; this makes 3) and steering back to my point:

Ability is not all-or-nothing. We need to look at the middle too.
Otherwise even "compliance" will still fall short for many.
Good UI can help many people function better and bad UI can hinder them.

 > my wife has a neurological condition that is probably on the
 > same scale as yours

Sorry to hear that - feel free to send me her condition's name off-list 
if you wish.

 > A few years ago, HP had many laptops with a trackpad
 > *and* two buttons below it

I had one of those too! Liked the laptop, but using the trackpad that 
way was also no bueno for me. I think I actually started enabling the 
touch-click on those to avoid using the hardware buttons.

To steer back to my point again, and somewhat agreeing with you, that HP 
laptop was an example of good design for different abilities and 
situations. It had the trackpad (to use with hard buttons or software 
clicks) but of course also the ability to plug in a wide variety of mice 
and other pointers.

The same holds true with software UI. Don't ditch a great and 
"scientific" feature (Apple's words, or close to it, from memory) for a 
mere lickable trend. Or if you do, at least provide some options for 
users that prefer the scientific. Could we say...be user friendly? Think 
different? ;) But again, it's not just Apple.

(Man, the "compliency" spelling in the subject line - not mine - is 
starting to make me wince after sending out 3 messages that way. But I 
don't want to change it and break the threading. So here it goes....)

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/



From bogdanoff at me.com  Sat May 30 01:35:54 2020
From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff)
Date: Fri, 29 May 2020 22:35:54 -0700
Subject: ADA Compliency
In-Reply-To: <523f9bc6-2f68-4358-6887-92af0ce11281@pair.com>
References: <A8437FF4-7562-4D64-81AD-747B47BFE455@all-auctions.com>
 <523f9bc6-2f68-4358-6887-92af0ce11281@pair.com>
Message-ID: <932CB7FE-9176-484E-82C5-B2FA4F9D5391@me.com>

Hi Curry,

Back to your original answer? Thanks for this. I?ve benefited over the years from your work and advice.

I?m currently working on adding accessibility to my text and media-heavy music application. In trying to find actual information about doing this in a way that is both ?compliant? and also good UI?I find very little data online. While trying to find out what someone in the sight-impared spectrum would consider good UI, I only hear ?I can only tell you what?s bad, not what you should do.? Resources online refer to the WCAG standard which deals primarily with web pages and Javascript and only tangently to non-web applications. Also, ?hire a consultant? meaning only certify compliance so you don?t get sued.

Certain things are easy, like adding subtitles to video/audio for the hearing impaired. For the visually impaired, changing the contrast and size of text is doable. However, for the visually impaired, making LiveCode compatible with screen readers (software that navigates other software by key commands) is out of the question for me, so I have to come up with my own design of a navigation by keyboard control with a voice prompts system along with text to speech. How do I get on the right track with this without ?hiring a consultant? or interviewing and testing with numbers of people with various disabilities, including physical mobility?

It?s a tough one without having buckets of money to put into the project?something that may get me compliant but not necessarily more sales. I still want to do it, however.

So if the big tech companies with their resources have mixed results, how well can small guys expect to do?

I do see accessibility as an issue that will only become more important.

Peter Bogdanoff
ArtsInteractive



> On May 29, 2020, at 10:09 AM, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> Rick:
> 
> > I have a couple of questions for you.
> 
> Thanks Rick! I do appreciate the concern. But in my post, your questions were already either answered or otherwise addressed before you asked. I anticipated them; I know what makes people tick! So I'll "re-answer" partly by quoting myself.
> 
> But when certain memes are burned so deep into community psyche that answers bounce right off, I feel like we're heading back toward the old failed group think. The same old patronizing ideas and faulty assumptions, while actually ignoring both the main point and the details of what I posted about UI.
> 
> Somehow we have to SHOUT louder than those old memes to get through!
> 
> > Is a trackpad or a trackball any better of an experience for you?
> 
> Heck no! Emphatically no. Much, much worse. Much more difficult. That's why I emphasized my mouse use already, to avoid precisely this type of inevitable question. Just be aware that the old oh handicap people should use blah blah mindset - the memes are sometimes true, but more often not.
> 
> Mouse = good. For handicap man too!
> Trashing a UI to replace scientific arrangement with lickable = bad.
> 
> I said: "I'm very comfortable using the mouse if set up correctly. I switched to Windows for my main work, and that helped save energy and improve accuracy."
> 
> Thus, problem mostly solved on my end, at least when using apps and web sites with non-crappy UI. Pretty easy solution. Handicap man happy.
> 
> But problem not solved on Apple's end. Handicap man sad for Apple!
> It really was a lousy move, destroying a once superior interface.
> 
> > Have you tried using the mac OS voice commands or controls?
> 
> Strike two! Think carefully about the implications of what I said: "I can only say a few words without getting out of breath."
> 
> For people with good breathing, this is a very good thing for typing or for no-hands computer use. But imagining it would be more efficient than mouse for the ability levels I described - and imagining I'm suffering here because I just haven't tried trackpad or voice recognition (I've built Mac apps with voice recognition) - no way. Totally unrealistic!
> 
> Now, a mental interface might be good, that's another story. Some interest there, for the future. But I'm not anywhere near ready for that yet. Privacy concerns etc, plus very importantly - use it or lose it. Without that exercise, the fingers are toast, and I need those guys. Maybe when I'm 80. Maybe I'll design it myself now and use it then.
> 
> > Apple has the money and resources to do it.
> 
> No, probably they don't. They can't. They don't have the brains (or the paradigm) to allow them to do it, not anymore. Not for any amount of money; mental assets are the most crucial. It's sad. I was a huge fan.
> 
> But enough about Apple - as I said, this is a pretty-much universal problem. Only using them as a small example of the problems:
> 
> - Binary thinking about physical abilities
> - Trotting out the same faulty memes and assumptions
> - Placing form above function, subjective over objective
> - Ignoring handicapped voices that don't fit the mold
> - Why being "compliant" will still fail many users
> 
> Ignoring the reality that abilities vary - and not even just a range along one continuum, but a real mixture of strengths and weaknesses in many mental and physical areas. I actually feel like a superman in some areas. I bring heavy strengths to the table, as my clients know.
> 
> Here's one more attempt to break through the group think. Really THINK HARD about this, and don't let it automatically bounce off, try to allow it into your mind. You may have to adjust some old assumptions, and if so that's good:
> 
> In certain ways, I might use a mouse more skillfully than you. It's possible; I'm pretty good, and I'm one heck of an adept user. At computer 16+ hours a day for both work and rest; I rely on it a LOT for all things, since I can't go out and about. In other ways I'm definitely worse than you, guaranteed. Some misclicks and doubles. Neurology.
> 
> But it's NOT so simple - and in fact so backwards - as oh, he's handicapped, he shouldn't use a mouse. (Even though he just said he does it well; he's handicapped, so we'll just ignore most of what he says.)
> 
> No, no, no, NO! Quite the opposite. This is missing the point, tossing most of the actual content, and adopting assumptions that are exactly opposite of the real situation. I MUST have a good ergonomic full-sized mouse or I can't use the computer at all. I have several backup mice in storage for instant swap. With a track pad I'm exhausted in a few minutes. Of course I've tried it! That is the reality.
> 
> If these popular but faulty memes are so appealing that actual reality must be discarded to uphold them, that's sad too. Don't let reality bounce off. If we are open to improving our knowledge and perceptions, life can improve so much, and progress can happen much faster!
> 
> BTW, this mouse versus window UI issue dates way back, to the time of OS X introduction. And my muscle and neurology impairments date back, likewise. It has been the case for the majority of my many years on this list (think carefully how long that has been) and during that time I've produced more than the average person! I've done pretty well with my mouse.
> 
> That problem was mostly solved long ago - to a reasonable extent. I probably couldn't send these message, much less be one of the top coders in this community, otherwise. Right? Think about it! Like I say, these popular memes and assumptions are so strong that they seen to just short-circuit the thinking process at time. But that's OK!
> 
> Nowadays the bigger problem is overall energy being sapped by the neurology, and I'm working on some next-gen dev solutions for that. It'll help people with normal physical ability too; good things are coming but it takes some time.
> 
> People instinctively tend to assign less weight to info from handicapped voices, and ignore whatever bucks the popular trend. That's how society works. But that's OK; I'm very much in the business of bucking trends and disproving faulty assumptions, and over time I'm winning. It's worth it to get new thoughts and improvements out there.
> 
> As always, I'm just popping up here to share some accurate and potentially valuable ($$$) info from one who really knows and has the FIRST-HAND experience plus the tech expertise, to benefit open minds and further good projects. Physical abilities are not all-or-nothing! And UI matters!
> 
> I hope it helps some people. Whether it's OS or app, big corporation or lone coder, good solid logical UI is always worthwhile, and bad UI is like a disease that keeps on giving. Just like bad code - avoid both like the plague they are. Your good code and UI can make a much bigger difference than you think. Thanks again....
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Curry Kenworthy
> 
> Custom Software Development
> "Better Methods, Better Results"
> LiveCode Training and Consulting
> http://livecodeconsulting.com/
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From livfoss at mac.com  Sat May 30 02:23:08 2020
From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel)
Date: Sat, 30 May 2020 08:23:08 +0200
Subject: Map Widget - how does it actually work?
In-Reply-To: <D40634A2-5DC3-40FF-B906-F1E63371FD31@earthlearningsolutions.org>
References: <34AD2C54-7C6E-4796-AEF7-8C7BCE2E9A06@mac.com>
 <C9FC7C1F-4A2E-4F52-A407-46305CA89300@gmail.com>
 <D40634A2-5DC3-40FF-B906-F1E63371FD31@earthlearningsolutions.org>
Message-ID: <1F25B33F-10CE-4A29-B8E9-C8F74DA6D8C6@mac.com>

Bill, thanks for all this. I will study it today (it?s breakfast time in France as I write this).

I did some internet searching to look at the underlying Apple Map system - which is used for the LC version of the Map widget for iOS - and its API. It?s rich and complex, so the widget just scratches the surface of the available functionality, 

This saddened my a bit, but then I reflected on the enormous simplification that LC represents for a developer compared with what you?d have to learn and apply before getting anywhere at all coding a mobile app ?outside? LC. It really is quite alarming. I was a geek once, and learned and applied some very obscure languages within very primitive and obscure systems, but I have zero taste for that sort of thing now. As a further example, take a quick look at what Apple say to attract you to their Swift language. They want to tell you it?s easy and fun - I think one can have a contrary opinion, especially if one has never coded in Objective-C or anything like it. [That was a pro-LiveCode rant, in case you didn?t notice.]

Graham

> On 30 May 2020, at 00:44, prothero--- via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Graham:
> If that doesn?t have everything, I have a zip file at:
> http://earthlearningsolutions.org/google-static-maps-demo/ <http://earthlearningsolutions.org/google-static-maps-demo/>
> William A. Prothero
> Santa Barbara, CA. 93105
> http://earthlearningsolutions.org/
> 
>> On May 29, 2020, at 3:42 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Graham:
>> Here is a link to an example that I, with lots of help from Hermann created. Maybe it will be useful. All done in livecode, so it should work. Haven?t tried it since 2017, tho.
>> Bill
>> 
>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/kg5l80bi82u1sap/google-maps-demo.livecode?dl=0 <https://www.dropbox.com/s/kg5l80bi82u1sap/google-maps-demo.livecode?dl=0>
>> 
>> William A. Prothero
>> https://earthlearningsolutions.org
>> 
>>> On May 25, 2020, at 1:57 PM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Back to my problems with inadequate documentation on widgets. The Map widget is probably very powerful, but the Dictionary entry simple tells you the names of the parameters. I can?t work out anything about the format of the data you can feed in, or what it looks like when it comes out. There isn?t even enough info to start a meaningful experiment, IMHO.
>>> 
>>> Does anyone know of a source of helpful documentation on this? I am as ever interested in the iOS version.
>>> 
>>> Thanks for any info.
>>> 
>>> Graham
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From curry at pair.com  Sat May 30 04:31:19 2020
From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy)
Date: Sat, 30 May 2020 04:31:19 -0400
Subject: ADA Compliency
In-Reply-To: <932CB7FE-9176-484E-82C5-B2FA4F9D5391@me.com>
References: <932CB7FE-9176-484E-82C5-B2FA4F9D5391@me.com>
Message-ID: <c82a4ddd-b1eb-1777-ac59-f8b5cca8d86d@pair.com>


Peter:

 > I?m currently working on adding accessibility to my text and
 > media-heavy music application. In trying to find actual information
 > about doing this in a way that is both ?compliant? and also good UI?
 > I find very little data online.

Nice project! For the standards side of it, I would keep the DOJ 
Software Accessibility Checklist handy:

https://www.justice.gov/crt/software-accessibility-checklist

(It's good, but not quite up-to-date to the minute - mentions Win95 :D
You could also use the DOE version and the WCAG as references.)

 > making LiveCode compatible with screen readers (software that
 > navigates other software by key commands) is out of the question
 > for me

This would be a GREAT feature for LC Ltd to implement. As important as 
accessibility is nowadays, it should be quite high on the feature 
priority list! Kudos to you and Dan for bringing it up.

And who knows, maybe some funding or tax break would be available for LC 
or others. (Also, good to know for we the companies that use LC.) On the 
USA side, here's a tax break, not huge but it might help someone:

<https://adata.org/faq/what-funding-assistance-available-removing-barriers-and-accommodating-customers-disabilities>

 > so I have to come up with my own design of a navigation by keyboard
 > control with a voice prompts system along with text to speech.

Excellent! That has a lot of potential.

 > doing this in a way that is both ?compliant? and also good UI

I consider the two largely separate, and almost never the twain....

Unfortunately, legal standards are usually big clumsy affairs, 
heavy-handed on enforcement and lightweight on human-readable 
guidelines/advice. Still they can be good, and the checklist is actually 
pretty great! But for that half it's doing things the way of government. 
"Render into Caesar...." (If I can say that here. Not quoting the fuller 
context, LOL. Pretty meaningful historical statement, though.)

 > How do I get on the right track with this without ?hiring a
 > consultant? or interviewing and testing with numbers of people
 > with various disabilities, including physical mobility?

For the UI half, it can be your own opportunity to shine and do it 
better, or you could stick closer to existing advice which as you say is 
mostly web-based, but there are a small sprinkling of software pages.

You know me - I would tend to go with the "opportunity to shine" route, 
my own choices, after meeting the legal list. But my personal and 
professional experience is mostly with a range of physical impairments 
rather than sight issues. As I project, I'd love it (hits close to home) 
and do the research and setup needed. As a casual question I'll give it 
a shot, off top of head.

I like big and beautiful buttons for the main features, a very readable 
font size, all buttons big enough (think iOS mobile size guidelines for 
touch, but applied consistently rather than the Apple thee-not-me way) 
and minimal user actions per task, among other things. Much of that is 
the physical again, but some would carry over to the visually impaired.

Navigating your voiced keyboard control is a big thing - make it 
super-easy and elegant! If you have those, and what's possible from the 
gov checklist, it looks great to me.

Also keys can make people tired - typing has made me super tired at 
times, last year especially. (Oddly I seemed to wind up better on typing 
after COVID, but worse in other areas especially breath.) The fewer user 
actions to each particular goal, the better. I could imagine that for 
unsighted people with good strong lungs, speech recognition might be 
even better, so I would want to tie that in too, at least on Mac.

Testing is crucial, and if you can't find free or affordable 
under-sighted testers (there may be some!) you could use a few tricks. 
Try it with eyes shut - but of course you have the developer 
bias/habits/memory yourself, so you could get a sighted person such as 
family or online friend to test that way. There would also ways to 
simulate a few types and degrees of vision impairment while testing, 
although the real thing is better. Compliance should be theoretically a 
best-effort reasonable affair, and a tiny company doesn't have the same 
resources as MS/Google/Apple. Theoretically, that is. The usual caveats.

 > So if the big tech companies with their resources have mixed results,
 > how well can small guys expect to do?

The big guys unfortunately are working with their own set of handicaps, 
much of it self-imposed. We're just the opposite. Empty pockets, open 
minds! Life is funny that way. So we have a chance too. Great project, 
best of luck and I hope it achieves all your goals very affordably. I 
also hope LC gets some accessibility hooks to benefit all users.

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
"Better Methods, Better Results"
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/



From prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org  Sat May 30 11:57:40 2020
From: prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org (Prothero-ELS)
Date: Sat, 30 May 2020 08:57:40 -0700
Subject: Map Widget - how does it actually work?
In-Reply-To: <1F25B33F-10CE-4A29-B8E9-C8F74DA6D8C6@mac.com>
References: <1F25B33F-10CE-4A29-B8E9-C8F74DA6D8C6@mac.com>
Message-ID: <F8112C82-68C6-4577-8780-E22B7DC59A1C@earthlearningsolutions.org>

Graham,
My demo stack was enhanced a lot by Hermann but I don?t know where it is, after a cursory search. He added a bunch of other capabilities, but I felt a quick look at the Google map docs would make it easy to add them. His expanded version may be in the examples repository. I didn?t check it.

My main problem was to calculate the bounding lat/lons of the displayed map.

Good luck with it.

William Prothero
https://earthlearningsolutions.org

> On May 29, 2020, at 11:24 PM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> ?Bill, thanks for all this. I will study it today (it?s breakfast time in France as I write this).
> 
> I did some internet searching to look at the underlying Apple Map system - which is used for the LC version of the Map widget for iOS - and its API. It?s rich and complex, so the widget just scratches the surface of the available functionality, 
> 
> This saddened my a bit, but then I reflected on the enormous simplification that LC represents for a developer compared with what you?d have to learn and apply before getting anywhere at all coding a mobile app ?outside? LC. It really is quite alarming. I was a geek once, and learned and applied some very obscure languages within very primitive and obscure systems, but I have zero taste for that sort of thing now. As a further example, take a quick look at what Apple say to attract you to their Swift language. They want to tell you it?s easy and fun - I think one can have a contrary opinion, especially if one has never coded in Objective-C or anything like it. [That was a pro-LiveCode rant, in case you didn?t notice.]
> 
> Graham
> 
>> On 30 May 2020, at 00:44, prothero--- via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Graham:
>> If that doesn?t have everything, I have a zip file at:
>> http://earthlearningsolutions.org/google-static-maps-demo/ <http://earthlearningsolutions.org/google-static-maps-demo/>
>> William A. Prothero
>> Santa Barbara, CA. 93105
>> http://earthlearningsolutions.org/
>> 
>>>> On May 29, 2020, at 3:42 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Graham:
>>> Here is a link to an example that I, with lots of help from Hermann created. Maybe it will be useful. All done in livecode, so it should work. Haven?t tried it since 2017, tho.
>>> Bill
>>> 
>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/kg5l80bi82u1sap/google-maps-demo.livecode?dl=0 <https://www.dropbox.com/s/kg5l80bi82u1sap/google-maps-demo.livecode?dl=0>
>>> 
>>> William A. Prothero
>>> https://earthlearningsolutions.org
>>> 
>>>> On May 25, 2020, at 1:57 PM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Back to my problems with inadequate documentation on widgets. The Map widget is probably very powerful, but the Dictionary entry simple tells you the names of the parameters. I can?t work out anything about the format of the data you can feed in, or what it looks like when it comes out. There isn?t even enough info to start a meaningful experiment, IMHO.
>>>> 
>>>> Does anyone know of a source of helpful documentation on this? I am as ever interested in the iOS version.
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks for any info.
>>>> 
>>>> Graham
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From dsc at swcp.com  Sat May 30 12:19:45 2020
From: dsc at swcp.com (dsc at swcp.com)
Date: Sat, 30 May 2020 10:19:45 -0600
Subject: Apps to fight COVID-19
In-Reply-To: <0E24EE6E-635F-4835-A635-14FB512582D9@swcp.com>
References: <2E377A37-0A20-4185-BCB6-B76FBBCBDA76@swcp.com>
 <9620adb5-548c-f7fb-666c-af5020668e7e@sonic.net>
 <0E24EE6E-635F-4835-A635-14FB512582D9@swcp.com>
Message-ID: <360D796E-C0D6-4607-AB02-DF185C7C0B07@swcp.com>

My volunteer stint at Covid Watch (anonymous exposure notification) is ending. The project is moving into a phase that needs other skillsets. 

I never got a chance to use LiveCode, though it was 2nd on my shortlist for a simulation that was never created. The 1st was Colab. 

Dar


---------------------------
Dar Scott

  darzLab
  8637 Horacio Place NE
  Albuquerque, NM 87111
  USA

web:		http://www.darzLab.com
email:		DarScott at darzLab.com
Phone:   		+1 505 433-1024

musing		designing		drawing
coding		tinkering		making
planning		inventing		...
---------------------------



From theaford at btinternet.com  Sun May 31 05:39:06 2020
From: theaford at btinternet.com (Terence Heaford)
Date: Sun, 31 May 2020 10:39:06 +0100
Subject: HTML Colour Groups
Message-ID: <5BD47CB9-1E10-4A56-9C6B-2186761BEE16@btinternet.com>

I thought LC supported HTML Colour Names?

I have been using the Colour Name Groups found here

https://www.w3schools.com/colors/colors_groups.asp <https://www.w3schools.com/colors/colors_groups.asp>

and found that some of the colours do not work in LC.

For example ?Crimson? reports an error in LC.

Can someone explain this anomaly please.



Thanks

Terry

From harrison at all-auctions.com  Sun May 31 09:50:38 2020
From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison)
Date: Sun, 31 May 2020 09:50:38 -0400
Subject: HTML Colour Groups
In-Reply-To: <5BD47CB9-1E10-4A56-9C6B-2186761BEE16@btinternet.com>
References: <5BD47CB9-1E10-4A56-9C6B-2186761BEE16@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <BA5DC978-5A50-4424-8212-ECF4CF5B8572@all-auctions.com>

Hi Terry,

Does it work if you use the Hex Code instead of the name?

Are you using the LC Server for this?
If so, what version of LC server are you running?

Is the code embedded as LC code or is it HTML or CSS?

Have you tested it in more than one Web-browser?
Sometimes things don?t work in one but do in another.
I have had instances of something working correctly
in Firefox but not in Chrome etc.

If you can show us the offending line/lines of code
that would be helpful too.

Rick




> On May 31, 2020, at 5:39 AM, Terence Heaford via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I thought LC supported HTML Colour Names?
> 
> I have been using the Colour Name Groups found here
> 
> https://www.w3schools.com/colors/colors_groups.asp <https://www.w3schools.com/colors/colors_groups.asp>
> 
> and found that some of the colours do not work in LC.
> 
> For example ?Crimson? reports an error in LC.
> 
> Can someone explain this anomaly please.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Terry
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From ahsoftware at sonic.net  Sun May 31 12:06:27 2020
From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder)
Date: Sun, 31 May 2020 09:06:27 -0700
Subject: HTML Colour Groups
In-Reply-To: <5BD47CB9-1E10-4A56-9C6B-2186761BEE16@btinternet.com>
References: <5BD47CB9-1E10-4A56-9C6B-2186761BEE16@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <6af78f5c-e00f-e7ef-7165-19ac83fe918e@sonic.net>

On 5/31/20 2:39 AM, Terence Heaford via use-livecode wrote:
> I thought LC supported HTML Colour Names?
> 
> I have been using the Colour Name Groups found here
> 
> https://www.w3schools.com/colors/colors_groups.asp <https://www.w3schools.com/colors/colors_groups.asp>
> 
> and found that some of the colours do not work in LC.
> 
> For example ?Crimson? reports an error in LC.
> 
> Can someone explain this anomaly please.

"the colornames" will give you a sorted list of the available colors.

The colors are the standardized X11 color names from the X.org source code.
https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/app/rgb/raw/master/rgb.txt

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X11_color_names

-- 
  Mark Wieder
  ahsoftware at gmail.com



From theaford at btinternet.com  Sun May 31 12:10:00 2020
From: theaford at btinternet.com (Terence Heaford)
Date: Sun, 31 May 2020 17:10:00 +0100
Subject: HTML Colour Groups
In-Reply-To: <BA5DC978-5A50-4424-8212-ECF4CF5B8572@all-auctions.com>
References: <5BD47CB9-1E10-4A56-9C6B-2186761BEE16@btinternet.com>
 <BA5DC978-5A50-4424-8212-ECF4CF5B8572@all-auctions.com>
Message-ID: <DDD56CB2-A6EB-4CFB-A1F1-0131D4A7DCBB@btinternet.com>

It seems that LC only supports the use of names that can be found by

put the colorNames function

and

?Crimson? is not one of those.

How the names of colors included is determined, I do not know.

I just thought (clearly incorrectly) that HTML colors were included.


On another point.

When you use Hex directly as in

set the background color of graphic 1 to #FFC0CB

works but?.

set tColor to ?#FFC0CB?

set the background color of graphic 1 to tColor

does not.

Could someone explain how to do hex with a variable

Thanks

Terry



> On 31 May 2020, at 14:50, Rick Harrison via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Terry,
> 
> Does it work if you use the Hex Code instead of the name?
> 
> Are you using the LC Server for this?
> If so, what version of LC server are you running?
> 
> Is the code embedded as LC code or is it HTML or CSS?
> 
> Have you tested it in more than one Web-browser?
> Sometimes things don?t work in one but do in another.
> I have had instances of something working correctly
> in Firefox but not in Chrome etc.
> 
> If you can show us the offending line/lines of code
> that would be helpful too.
> 
> Rick
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On May 31, 2020, at 5:39 AM, Terence Heaford via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I thought LC supported HTML Colour Names?
>> 
>> I have been using the Colour Name Groups found here
>> 
>> https://www.w3schools.com/colors/colors_groups.asp <https://www.w3schools.com/colors/colors_groups.asp>
>> 
>> and found that some of the colours do not work in LC.
>> 
>> For example ?Crimson? reports an error in LC.
>> 
>> Can someone explain this anomaly please.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Thanks
>> 
>> Terry
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From theaford at btinternet.com  Sun May 31 12:13:33 2020
From: theaford at btinternet.com (Terence Heaford)
Date: Sun, 31 May 2020 17:13:33 +0100
Subject: HTML Colour Groups
In-Reply-To: <6af78f5c-e00f-e7ef-7165-19ac83fe918e@sonic.net>
References: <5BD47CB9-1E10-4A56-9C6B-2186761BEE16@btinternet.com>
 <6af78f5c-e00f-e7ef-7165-19ac83fe918e@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <BB4412EA-4B3B-4745-9203-AC77748C8EE0@btinternet.com>

Our posts just crossed in the post

Can you answer my question about using hex in a variable when setting an objects colour.

Thanks

Terry 

> On 31 May 2020, at 17:06, Mark Wieder via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>  available colors.



From tore.nilsen at me.com  Sun May 31 12:25:31 2020
From: tore.nilsen at me.com (Tore Nilsen)
Date: Sun, 31 May 2020 18:25:31 +0200
Subject: HTML Colour Groups
In-Reply-To: <BB4412EA-4B3B-4745-9203-AC77748C8EE0@btinternet.com>
References: <5BD47CB9-1E10-4A56-9C6B-2186761BEE16@btinternet.com>
 <6af78f5c-e00f-e7ef-7165-19ac83fe918e@sonic.net>
 <BB4412EA-4B3B-4745-9203-AC77748C8EE0@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <3F7980FC-5FD3-4F23-AD0F-914239553D44@me.com>

You try to sign a value to tColor with the command set. The right command is put, as in this example, this works on my end:
put "#FFC0CB" into tColor

set the backgroundcolor of graphic 1 to tColor


Best regards 
Tore Nilsen

 
> 31. mai 2020 kl. 18:13 skrev Terence Heaford via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
> 
> Our posts just crossed in the post
> 
> Can you answer my question about using hex in a variable when setting an objects colour.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Terry 
> 
>> On 31 May 2020, at 17:06, Mark Wieder via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> available colors.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode



From theaford at btinternet.com  Sun May 31 12:38:16 2020
From: theaford at btinternet.com (Terence Heaford)
Date: Sun, 31 May 2020 17:38:16 +0100
Subject: HTML Colour Groups
In-Reply-To: <3F7980FC-5FD3-4F23-AD0F-914239553D44@me.com>
References: <5BD47CB9-1E10-4A56-9C6B-2186761BEE16@btinternet.com>
 <6af78f5c-e00f-e7ef-7165-19ac83fe918e@sonic.net>
 <BB4412EA-4B3B-4745-9203-AC77748C8EE0@btinternet.com>
 <3F7980FC-5FD3-4F23-AD0F-914239553D44@me.com>
Message-ID: <CB8A04D7-744F-49BD-ADB6-F49726F4ED96@btinternet.com>

Apologies, works now.

Don?t what I did incorrectly to make it not work.

Thanks

Terry

> On 31 May 2020, at 17:25, Tore Nilsen via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> put "#FFC0CB" into tColor
> 
> set the backgroundcolor of graphic 1 to tColor



From theaford at btinternet.com  Sun May 31 12:42:58 2020
From: theaford at btinternet.com (Terence Heaford)
Date: Sun, 31 May 2020 17:42:58 +0100
Subject: HTML Colour Groups
In-Reply-To: <CB8A04D7-744F-49BD-ADB6-F49726F4ED96@btinternet.com>
References: <5BD47CB9-1E10-4A56-9C6B-2186761BEE16@btinternet.com>
 <6af78f5c-e00f-e7ef-7165-19ac83fe918e@sonic.net>
 <BB4412EA-4B3B-4745-9203-AC77748C8EE0@btinternet.com>
 <3F7980FC-5FD3-4F23-AD0F-914239553D44@me.com>
 <CB8A04D7-744F-49BD-ADB6-F49726F4ED96@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <C2D0A953-4A6B-4876-A37A-53636373068F@btinternet.com>

I realise I used set in my post but will have used put in the script as you cannot use set and apply the script.

Don?t know why it didn?t work originally, sorry for bothering you.

All the best

Terry


> On 31 May 2020, at 17:38, Terence Heaford via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> Apologies, works now.
> 
> Don?t what I did incorrectly to make it not work.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Terry
> 
>> On 31 May 2020, at 17:25, Tore Nilsen via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>> put "#FFC0CB" into tColor
>> 
>> set the backgroundcolor of graphic 1 to tColor
> 
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From paul at livecode.org  Sun May 31 12:59:31 2020
From: paul at livecode.org (Paul Hibbert)
Date: Sun, 31 May 2020 09:59:31 -0700
Subject: HTML Colour Groups
In-Reply-To: <5BD47CB9-1E10-4A56-9C6B-2186761BEE16@btinternet.com>
References: <5BD47CB9-1E10-4A56-9C6B-2186761BEE16@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <140B0EB2-870D-40B7-8843-84BD2039919B@livecode.org>

Hi Terence,

I?m not sure where these originate from, although I suspect they are from an earlier HTML version than is displayed on w3schools.

After a quick comparison, the missing colours appear to be;

Aqua
Crimson
Fuchsia
Indigo
Lime
Olive
RebeccaPurple
Silver
Teal

It probably wouldn?t be too difficult to catch these and substitute the Hex codes. It also wouldn?t take too much work to build your own custom list if you needed it, there's a really comprehensive list of colour names on Wikipedia.

It maybe worth a bug report to get the colorNames updated, I wouldn?t expect it to be too high a priority, but it should be an easy fix so you never know.

Regards

Paul

> On May 31, 2020, at 02:39, Terence Heaford via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> I thought LC supported HTML Colour Names?
> 
> I have been using the Colour Name Groups found here
> 
> https://www.w3schools.com/colors/colors_groups.asp <https://www.w3schools.com/colors/colors_groups.asp>
> 
> and found that some of the colours do not work in LC.
> 
> For example ?Crimson? reports an error in LC.
> 
> Can someone explain this anomaly please.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Terry
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode




From jacque at hyperactivesw.com  Sun May 31 13:07:29 2020
From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay)
Date: Sun, 31 May 2020 12:07:29 -0500
Subject: HTML Colour Groups
In-Reply-To: <C2D0A953-4A6B-4876-A37A-53636373068F@btinternet.com>
References: <5BD47CB9-1E10-4A56-9C6B-2186761BEE16@btinternet.com>
 <6af78f5c-e00f-e7ef-7165-19ac83fe918e@sonic.net>
 <BB4412EA-4B3B-4745-9203-AC77748C8EE0@btinternet.com>
 <3F7980FC-5FD3-4F23-AD0F-914239553D44@me.com>
 <CB8A04D7-744F-49BD-ADB6-F49726F4ED96@btinternet.com>
 <C2D0A953-4A6B-4876-A37A-53636373068F@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <1726bb3dc68.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com>

Note there's a bug in the property inspector when using hex colors. It 
works and the color is applied to the object, but it doesn't show up in the 
property inspector's color squares.
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On May 31, 2020 11:44:49 AM Terence Heaford via use-livecode 
<use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I realise I used set in my post but will have used put in the script as you 
> cannot use set and apply the script.
>
> Don?t know why it didn?t work originally, sorry for bothering you.
>
> All the best
>
> Terry
>
>
>> On 31 May 2020, at 17:38, Terence Heaford via use-livecode 
>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>> Apologies, works now.
>>
>> Don?t what I did incorrectly to make it not work.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Terry
>>
>>> On 31 May 2020, at 17:25, Tore Nilsen via use-livecode 
>>> <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> put "#FFC0CB" into tColor
>>>
>>> set the backgroundcolor of graphic 1 to tColor
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode






From bvlahos at mac.com  Sun May 31 19:56:30 2020
From: bvlahos at mac.com (Bill Vlahos)
Date: Sun, 31 May 2020 16:56:30 -0700
Subject: vCard save file format binfile or file?
Message-ID: <B70BE444-A80C-4103-930D-ED449F577B10@mac.com>

If I just use URL file to save vCard files I will get different results on Windows vs Macintosh regarding CRLF. VCard files are text files.

The vCard standard requires CRLF as the line format regardless of which platform the data is being written in. LiveCode using the URL file command will write the file differently on Windows compared to Mac or Linux.

I can build the variable for the vCard and use CRLF instead of RETURN for line endings.

If I write the file using URL binfile format will it still be a text file that other programs can read?

Thanks,
Bill


From kee.nethery at elloco.com  Sun May 31 20:08:53 2020
From: kee.nethery at elloco.com (kee nethery)
Date: Sun, 31 May 2020 17:08:53 -0700
Subject: vCard save file format binfile or file?
In-Reply-To: <B70BE444-A80C-4103-930D-ED449F577B10@mac.com>
References: <B70BE444-A80C-4103-930D-ED449F577B10@mac.com>
Message-ID: <2B7F150A-3BE4-4ACD-B15E-487123C579D5@elloco.com>


> On May 31, 2020, at 4:56 PM, Bill Vlahos via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> If I just use URL file to save vCard files I will get different results on Windows vs Macintosh regarding CRLF. VCard files are text files.

UTF-8 files.   https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6350#section-3.1

> The vCard standard requires CRLF as the line format regardless of which platform the data is being written in.

True    https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6350#section-3.2

> LiveCode using the URL file command will write the file differently on Windows compared to Mac or Linux.

Sure do wish Livecode would let us declare what a ?text? file return character or characters was for writing a file. Same as we do with itemdelimiters. Something like:

set linedelimiter to U+000D & U+000A

> I can build the variable for the vCard and use CRLF instead of RETURN for line endings.
> 
> If I write the file using URL binfile format will it still be a text file that other programs can read?

if you give it a .vcf suffix it should work.

Kee