Cross Platform Font Layout - current workarounds
bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com
Tue Aug 25 20:52:47 EDT 2020
Rather than puke all over my keyboard, I am now forced to make a rule sending all emails with this address to the trash. I hate doing this, I really thought things would just calm down. I don’t think that will happen now.
> On Aug 25, 2020, at 5:17 PM, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> Thanks Matthias,
> Your comments are appreciated.
> The projects deadline was Monday morning, which was completed. It doesn't
> take away from the fact that next time I will face it all again because LC
> won't fix the fundamentals. They don't live up to their promises. They LIE
> (Jacque won't accept it, but they make many claims on their site and to me
> in person that simply are proven false). I'm just tired of people making me
> out to be irrelevant and any claim I make to be false. They make claims of
> their own which in turn are unfounded in any reality. [sigh] Of course I
> will get upset at that kind of treatment from the same old abusers. They're
> the same ones who drove me to topping myself last time. Nice, community
> spirit of 'assume he's wrong, attack and make out LC can do no wrong' then
> push him out and hope he rots!
> Thanks a bunch
> Sean Cole
> *Pi Digital *
> *PS - *(see, I am 'nice' to those who are deserving of respect. If you're
> not getting the respect, perhaps you need to consider the relevance and
> validity of what you have said).
> On Wed, 26 Aug 2020 at 00:58, matthias rebbe via use-livecode <
> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> As much i understand the pressure you feel to finalize your project, the
>> less i understand why every post of you sounds rude.
>> What do you want to accomplish with such posts and what do you want to
>> hear from us?
>> You can't expect that everyone on this list shares your opinion.
>> I do not think that your behavior is very helpful. But anyway that's your
>> I really wish you can complete the project successfully.
>> Take care of yourself.
>>> Am 26.08.2020 um 01:36 schrieb Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>:
>>> Se my notes on the other thread about OTF fonts. THEY ARE DESIGNED to be
>>> the SAME in ANY platform (except browsers coz they don't accept them.
>>> have their own variance.
>>> Stop making excuses. Accept I am right, for FS. I didn't create the
>>> I'm not even the first to report it. It's there! It's real. Stop arguing
>>> and help me get LC to pull their fingers out their posteriors and fix
>>> damned mistakes that have been around for years!! Why does no one pull
>>> behind me, but just point the finger at me assuming I'm in the wrong for
>>> highlighting a bug that is clearly already accepted? It astounds me, it
>>> really does! You tell me off for getting angry about it but it is purely
>>> because everyone has made out the OTF fonts aren't designed to appear the
>>> same. They should. They don't. They should. But they don't! It needs
>>> fixing. Simple as that. Of course I'm going to respond badly to this kind
>>> of bullying. What did you all expect!
>>> Sean Cole
>>> *Pi Digital *
>>> On Tue, 25 Aug 2020 at 23:04, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> I’ll toss this in. I was using a Mac font that had a Windows corollary
>>>> thought) but when I dug deeper I found that the Mac had individual type
>>>> faces whereas the Windows equivalent did not. This font was a BUILT-IN
>>>> on both platforms!
>>>> The result is if I chose the bold version of the font for something
>> like a
>>>> Header or a Label, it wouldn’t be either the font chosen OR bold in
>>>> Windows, although it looks absolutely fine on the Mac.
>>>> The Livecode devs CANNOT take liberties with this sort of thing! What
>>>> they do?? Write code that guesses what it was the developer was trying
>>>> do? It’s absurd to think this is even a problem that CAN be solved at
>>>> application level.
>>>> THAT BEING SAID…
>>>> What I DID do successfully was find an app that was able to CONVERT the
>>>> Mac font type faces into WINDOWS font files, and then I was able to
>>>> them in Windows and I got pretty much what I expected to get.
>>>> Bob S
>>>>> On Aug 25, 2020, at 10:51 AM, Andrew at MidWest Coast Media via
>>>> use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>> My degree is in TV/stage production and digital design. I’ve built web
>>>> sites (HTML, WordPress, LiveCode), produced/directed broadcast and
>>>> streaming programs, and delivered custom software on Mac/PC/Web (using
>>>> Director and Flash), and now Mac/PC/iOS/Android using LiveCode (because
>>>> you’re right, the HTML5 port isn’t ready for primetime).
>>>>> Anyone who thinks pixel perfection across mediums is possible has never
>>>> worked on a web platform; this usually ends up being UI designers who
>>>> work in theoreticals. That InDesign file they mocked up might look great
>>>> saved as a PDF or printed on a specific coated paper using Pantone inks,
>>>> but those CMYK colors and Post Script fonts are rendered using RGB and
>>>> in a web browser or desktop computer so they won’t look the same: and
>>>> there’s not a damn thing you can do about it (short of making
>> everything an
>>>> image, but you still can’t make-up for the color gamut differences). The
>>>> WYSWIG hacks that sufficed in the 90s/00s to make things visually
>>>> were always shoddy at-best creating hundreds of additional lines of code
>>>> and won’t pass muster with current accessibility standards even if they
>>>>> Fonts have ALWAYS been one of the most difficult parts of app
>>>> development. Whether it’s getting legal fonts (the good ones aren’t
>>>> and the cheap ones aren’t good), or cross-platform fonts (not every OS
>>>> reads the same format, and not every font is available in multiple
>>>> formats). The closest I’ve come has been to run some scripts when
>>>> populating text fields to make sure they fit the dimensions allotted in
>>>> design. Text doesn’t fit in box? Reduce the fontSize by 1 until it does.
>>>> Text doesn’t fill the space? Increase the fontSize by 1 until it does.
>>>> a PITA, so I usually add this in at the end since the art department
>>>> to have another “small change” along the way.
>>>>> Programming isn't a science as much as an art. With your broadcasting
>>>> background you understand that a projects aren’t “done” until the
>>>> there is ALWAYS something else you would have tweaked if you had more
>>>> (2 weeks?!?). But I get it: producers are generally unreasonable
>>>> emojis that are notoriously difficult to please.
>>>>> While LiveCode DOES require some if platform() conditionals, I can only
>>>> imagine coding this in Swift and Java (even for a unicorn proficient in
>>>> BOTH) would still take much longer and NOT give the pixel perfection you
>>>> are referring to. I say “imagine” because I don’t know, and never had to
>>>> learn, those languages since I could easily pick-up LiveCode from the
>>>> various programming environments I’ve previously developed for. My copy
>>>> Microsoft Windows looks different on my iMac than it does on my Dell,
>>>> it wasn’t a fireable offense for the development team.
>>>>> —Andrew Bell
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