OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development?

Richmond richmondmathewson at gmail.com
Thu Sep 12 03:22:59 EDT 2019


That sounds as if "things" are possible.
I have run off a very simple standalone (one card, one button, one field)
and uploaded it to Dropbox, and would be most grateful if you can try to 
get it to run.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/518kxvml2si3xic/ISLAND.zip?dl=0

I am currently running Mojave as am a bit reluctant to dive into the 
water round
the island just yet.

Richmond.

On 12.09.19 3:13, Marty Knapp via use-livecode wrote:
> I just tried 2 apps that I built in LC 9.5 business. I have Catalina beta 7 installed. Neither app was code signed or notarized. I moved the apps to that machine via a thumb drive and did not zip compress either one. They both launched on Catalina beta without complaint.
>
> Next I zipped one of the apps and uploaded to my server and then downloaded it to the Catalina beta. This time when I tried to open, I got the message that it could not be opened because its integrity couldn’t be verified. The only options were “Move to trash” or “cancel”
>
> I then right clicked and chose Open and again got the warning about not being able to verify but now had an additional option to open, which it did. I quit and opened again - this time with no warnings or trouble.
>
> I did just get a notice that beta 8 is available. Will test when I get it installed.
>
> Marty
>
>> On Sep 11, 2019, at 11:07 AM, Richmond via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>
>> The most telling test is if anyone who has a Catalina beta installed runs off a Macintosh
>> standalone and sees if they can run it themselves: wether from the Open Source version or
>> one of the commercial versions.
>>
>> Richmond.
>>
>> On 11.09.19 18:21, Dar Scott Consulting via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Keeping a clear look at things... That $100/yr does include "beta OS releases, advanced app capabilities, technical support, and tools to develop, test, and distribute apps." At one time one could get past OSs, but I don't think it is the case now. And you could go down to the test warehouse and test on old machines.
>>>
>>> On the Windows side, I have used MSDN Universal ($2200/yr) and MSDN Operating Systems ($700/yr) in the past. The latter might be comparable to the Apple Developer membership. Well, it was when you could get past OSes from Apple.
>>>
>>> I have seen ads for codesigning certs that work for both Apple and Windows. I don't know what that means. And I don't know why the fees for 2nd and 3rd years are so high.
>>>
>>> Dar
>>>
>>> Senior Consultant
>>> Dar Scott Consulting
>>>
>>> Mad Scientist
>>> darzLab
>>>
>>>> On Sep 11, 2019, at 2:38 AM, JJS via use-livecode <use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The ratio of money asked from devs is also of course: (considered mobile)
>>>>
>>>> Mobile Operating Systems 	Percentage Market Share
>>>> Mobile Operating System Market Share Worldwide - August 2019
>>>> Android 	76.23%
>>>> iOS 	22.17%
>>>> KaiOS 	0.59%
>>>> Unknown 	0.26%
>>>> Samsung 	0.21%
>>>> Windows 	0.2%
>>>>
>>>> So apple iOs is somewhat increasing this year, in 2018 it was 15% worldwide.
>>>>
>>>> Apple asks 100$ yearly --iOs/ (and macOS)
>>>>
>>>> Google ask 25$ one time fee -- Android
>>>>
>>>> Amazon is FREE ! (for the time being) -- Kindle which is just Android
>>>>
>>>> You can also use other platforms for free like Fdroid
>>>>
>>>> Beats me why Apple charges so much yearly while the gain i think is to lower that cost as they earn money from your sales anyway.
>>>>
>>>> Is there an alternative platform for iOs/macOs ?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Op 11-9-2019 om 07:57 schreef Peter Reid via use-livecode:
>>>>> I've been reading the responses to my original posting with interest. My thoughts are as follows:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. Matthias Rebbe's tutorial and helper stack seem to be excellent and appear to be the best way of complying with Apple's requirements, for now. Let's hope that Matthias can maintain this as Apple move the goalposts over time! If Matthias is unable to sustain these aids I'd hope that the LC mothership would adopt them.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. A lot of the apps I develop are used by immediate friends and family (and a tiny circle of customers). They are private developments for use in closed communities. Apple have no right to be involved in these and the extended development cycle caused by their involvement is just unnecessary pain.
>>>>>
>>>>> 3. If Apple's measures really did provide bullet-proof protection the pain could be justified given the gain. However we know that this protection process is continuous and it becomes more and more onerous over time whilst still providing partial protection for a limited time.
>>>>>
>>>>> 4. If the Apple measures were a simple switchable setting I could switch them off whilst I check the user experience for a new user. Then I could switch the features back on to see the fully Apple-ised experience. As it is now, using the current Catalina beta on my development Mac, I see no blocking or warnings. So I've no way of testing the user experience on my development Mac. I have to find another Mac to act as my newbie user. Even then if such a Mac has been a previous newbie, how do you neutralise it to relive the newbie experience?
>>>>>
>>>>> 5. The $100 charge each year is inexcusable. Basically Apple are saying "We'll make any app development more tedious unless you pay up $100 every year.". Even the development of the simplest app, to be used as a temporary tool by a couple of friends will be blighted by warnings,  etc. if you don't pay $100 per year and jump through the hoops! Apple are deliberately making life more difficult and charging us $100 a year for the privilege!
>>>>>
>>>>> 6. I wonder how much developer time world-wide is wasted jumping through Apple's hoops, especially those developers without the benefit of LC and Matthias' tools?
>>>>>
>>>>> 7. If a new-to-LC developer wants to do the usual "Hello World" trivial 1st app (making an executable standalone app), they have to understand code-signing, notarising and stapling, DMG/ZIP creation and be signed/paid-up Apple developers.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks to Matthias, you're a life/sanity saver, but I still find the prospects as an app developer rather depressing!
>>>>>
>>>>> Peter
>>>>> --
>>>>> Peter Reid
>>>>> Loughborough, UK
>>>>>
>>>>>
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