From hh at hyperhh.de Sun Sep 1 01:56:38 2019 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2019 07:56:38 +0200 Subject: Is HTML5 really practical? Message-ID: <2A037163-DC11-45A6-9274-04BA40509CA1@hyperhh.de> > Is there a way to force a reload of the bit you want (need) to reload, > without reloading the engine ? A reload doesn't reload the engine at any rate. To the contrary, it usually just resets the standalone if the engine is (also on server) identical. So reloading a standalone or loading another standalone with the identical engine depends upon the caching policy of your browser and of your server (my server hyperhh.de uses SSD and keeps the engine in RAM for a while). For example my 9.5.0 standalones reloaded (or loading another standalone with the same engine) with Safari (of MacOS 10.14.6) or a browser widget (LC 9.5.0) on Mac mini 2.5 GHz and a 100 MBit connection need < 3 seconds from hyperhh.de < 5 seconds from hh.on-rev.com Chrome on Mac needs at about 2-4 seconds more. Firefox on Mac does each time a 'full' reload. From hh at hyperhh.de Sun Sep 1 02:40:55 2019 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2019 08:40:55 +0200 Subject: Launch vs Set in widget Message-ID: <5092C93A-54BF-43D8-9489-D957B3CACAE2@hyperhh.de> Originally such things could be used to "redirect" urls. But in the current browser widget this is not used and in fact there is no difference between the two: [ The LCB code is public handler OnLaunchUrl(in pUrl as String) setUrl(pUrl) end handler ] But I have meanwhile found a solution you could try. Works here on desktop and mobile. The script below disables going back in the browser and keeps the history clean. It preserves the state of your stack, which is the same as if you navigate back from another page. Hopefully the backKey doesn't has its own history (couldn't test here). === DISABLE GOING BACK IN BROWSER === You have to do that each time you go to a new page. ? For example I use it as follows in a browser widget. on browserNavigateComplete uri do "history.pushState(null, document.title, location.href);" & \ "window.addEventListener('popstate', function (event){" & \ "history.pushState(null, document.title, location.href); });" \ in widget "browser" end browserNavigateComplete ? In a HTML5 standalone you can write do "history.pushState(null, document.title, location.href);" & \ "window.addEventListener('popstate', function (event){" & \ "history.pushState(null, document.title, location.href); });" \ as "javascript" > JLG wrote: > Yes, I meant "launch url in widget" which says it opens a url in the > widget, but that is what "set the URL of widget x" does too. I don't see > any difference. > > I'm having a terrible time with both acceleratedRendering and the browser > widget in LC 9.5. I can't fix acceleratedRendering but I think I'll try > going back to the original mobileCreate method and see if that works > better. On my Pixel the widget freezes and Android puts up its "not > responding" error dialog after the user navigates around a few pages. It > doesn't behave correctly when changing stacks and remains visible after the > new stack opens, obscuring the card. It also freezes when the back history > is exhausted. I was curious if setting the URL with its launch command > would be different. > > I badly need to be able to respond to the backKey too, but apparently > that's not possible. The widget eats it. As for acceleratedRendering, it's > broken. I had to turn it off completely. > > I'm stuck with 9.5 because I have to build for 64-bit. From danoldboy at gmail.com Sun Sep 1 04:05:03 2019 From: danoldboy at gmail.com (Dan Brown) Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2019 09:05:03 +0100 Subject: Is HTML5 really practical? In-Reply-To: <84CFFDFF-5778-4CC6-8F7D-540593EC6212@gmail.com> References: <84CFFDFF-5778-4CC6-8F7D-540593EC6212@gmail.com> Message-ID: With WebAssembly (WASM) now shipping in most modern browsers there doesn't seem much point in continuing development on the current (somewhat broken) Enscripten driven approach to delivering lc on the web. Hopefully lc have already started looking into compiling to wasm https://hacks.mozilla.org/2017/02/a-cartoon-intro-to-webassembly/ On Fri, 30 Aug 2019, 21:43 William Prothero via use-livecode, < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Folks: > I?m considering making a web site that will use livecode?s html5 engine. > Is this practical? > > What I want to create is a signup system for a kayaking club. Paddles are > scheduled for each week and members enter their names for various paddle > times. The member list would be in a database and there would also be a > membership page with entries for various aspects of their skill levels. > > HH?s demos see to show reasonable engine load times, but I?m wondering > whether it might be easier and better to just use the engine as a cgi and > do everything in css and html. > > Frankly, I haven?t seen any compelling use case for livecode's html5. Is > there one, at this time? > > Any thoughts? > > Best, > Bill > > William A. Prothero > http://earthlearningsolutions.org > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From hh at hyperhh.de Sun Sep 1 04:12:45 2019 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2019 10:12:45 +0200 Subject: Is HTML5 really practical? Message-ID: <8AAB0236-8694-4E6D-822C-55299B33F326@hyperhh.de> > Alex T. wrote: > Is there a way to force a reload of the bit you want (need) to reload, > without reloading the engine ? (Continuing my answer) For a reload from cache you can do "location.reload()" as "javascript" If you mean to load another standalone or reset the current standalone without reloading the engine: I now looked into emscripten's module API and can't see a way to replace only the module.livecodeStandalone which is the VFS containing the stack. But you can make a mainstack that is only the engine and main scripts and then ? load all you need from substacks and write a reset handler to the mainstack. ? use go stack url (urls use SOP) from that mainstack. ? load script only stacks from a local filesystem Then the engine is loaded only once. See my HTML5 samples TestInStandalone (button insert local library) Read/Write Local File GoStackURL From hh at hyperhh.de Sun Sep 1 05:02:12 2019 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2019 11:02:12 +0200 Subject: Save/Open stack to/from variable? Message-ID: <0589E16C-4850-483E-AAE1-32D366D3A1D4@hyperhh.de> In a situation where you can't 'directly' access the filesystem in order to save or read a stack but can write any variable to a local file and read from any local file to a variable, the questions arise: ? Can we save (the current state of) a stack to a variable in a format as the usual stackfile (may be base64 encoded)? ? Can we open (and set the state of) a stack from a variable that is in usual stackfile format (may be base64 encoded)? The "read" question describes an extension of "go stack url" where the url is a variable in usual stackfile format. And yes: I don't mean script only stacks. For example in a HTML5 standalone we have such a situation. May be also in some mobile standalones(?). From mark at livecode.com Sun Sep 1 07:48:01 2019 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2019 12:48:01 +0100 Subject: Launch vs Set in widget In-Reply-To: <16cea2c3348.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <67ADC9ED-6B10-4B17-8403-F875C30088B3@pidigital.co.uk> <16cea2c3348.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <87b51705886849995549f16e127ad528@livecode.com> On 2019-09-01 01:16, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > Yes, I meant "launch url in widget" which says it opens a url in the > widget, but that is what "set the URL of widget x" does too. I don't > see any difference. As Sean said the difference is the widget, rather than anything else. The 'launch url in ' syntax calls an OnLaunchUrl handler in the widget - so the widget could be anything. Obviously for a browser widget launching a url is the same as going to that url - which means it is the same as set. It is plausible that you might have a widget some day which can 'launch a url' but wouldn't have a url property. > I'm having a terrible time with both acceleratedRendering and the > browser widget in LC 9.5. I can't fix acceleratedRendering but I think > I'll try going back to the original mobileCreate method and see if > that works better. On my Pixel the widget freezes and Android puts up > its "not responding" error dialog after the user navigates around a > few pages. It doesn't behave correctly when changing stacks and > remains visible after the new stack opens, obscuring the card. It also > freezes when the back history is exhausted. I was curious if setting > the URL with its launch command would be different. Hmmm - you say 'on your Pixel' - have you observed the behavior on other devices, or indeed other Pixels? (It might be worth creating a Pixel emulator which will be in factory state and see if you get the same behavior). The mobileCreate and browser widget use the same system classes so I'd be surprised if it made any difference switching - especially as the issue sounds like it is to do with navigating between pages in the widget which is the concern of the system webview class, rather than the engine. One thing which might be instructive is to capture the logcat whilst you run your app and then cause it to become 'not responding' - such situations are usually accompanied by quite a lot of log lines, especially if some sort of internal exception is occurring. > I badly need to be able to respond to the backKey too, but apparently > that's not possible. The widget eats it. As for acceleratedRendering, > it's broken. I had to turn it off completely. Looking at the engine code if you are using the browser widget then you should be getting the 'backKey' message as normal - if you are using mobileCreate browser, then *that* would eat it. Do you have a mobileCreate "browser" instance lurking somewhere still by accident? [ I might have read the engine code wrong though... ] When you say 'acceleratedRendering' is broken, can you elaborate? FWIW, we've been using acceleratedRendering alongside browser widgets internally on Android extensively and haven't seen any issues... Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From sundown at pacifier.com Sun Sep 1 08:03:25 2019 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2019 05:03:25 -0700 Subject: Checking the host OS In-Reply-To: References: <17F33AB2-8F8D-4B1D-AC34-40E3345D3B65@byu.edu> <951c839a-7e0b-b524-bf1e-96be47e18e86@sonic.net> Message-ID: <3B479A60-C5D9-408C-95F5-62C8124EE950@pacifier.com> On OS X in the terminal you can type: sysctl hw.machine and it will display the machine architecture. I don?t use the shell commands much but it looks like you can get the info without compiling code by using the code below. on mouseUp put shell( "sysctl hw.machine" ) into pData put pData end mouseUp JB > On Aug 30, 2019, at 8:41 PM, Devin Asay via use-livecode wrote: > > On Aug 30, 2019, at 9:10 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: >> >>> On 8/30/19 12:22 PM, Devin Asay via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> Now that we can build both 32 and 64 bit applications for Windows, it?s important to be able to tell whether the host OS is 32 or 64 bit. >> >> Why? If the 64-bit application won't run on the 32-bit system you won't get as far as your scripted test. Am I missing something? > > No, I?m just toying with the idea of having a 32-bit launcher that would examine the host OS, then launch the proper executable based on whether it is 32 or 64 bit. Sort of like a poor man?s universal app like we used to create for MacOS. It?s possible I?m use way overthinking this. > > -D > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From brahma at hindu.org Sun Sep 1 09:43:18 2019 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2019 13:43:18 +0000 Subject: Show Script in New Window Message-ID: On Mac, 9.5 stable, Script Editor, clicking on a tab to "Move to New Window". Take that script and moves it out to full screen window, with no way to minimize or go "back" at which point one cannot interact with a) the stack b) another script Can anyone else confirm this behavior. ( have three monitors -- may be complicating the issue) BR From brahma at hindu.org Sun Sep 1 10:48:21 2019 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2019 14:48:21 +0000 Subject: Globals in Modular Stack Framework Message-ID: <335B52EA-3965-42F1-A8E5-E95A453D85D6@hindu.org> Given a modular stack framework for mobile, where 1) a "engine" stack to always open, but hidden on boot ? call it "Stack Engine" 2) then you have multiple "modular" stacks -- call them views--which are opened and closed on "demand/navigation" ? call them a. stack "story" b. stack "calendar" c. stack "book" etc. Now, we know that globals are inherently "evil," but I find myself resorting to a global called sConfigA # with a growing number of keys, # I know "s" is meant for local, it's a legacy thing Now we have performance issues where, for a given view stack-- which may be open or closed: a) we dig the a local data base for "stuff" like a set of quotes b) are a series of image paths The result of such a dbase/disk operations, is usually a "trivial" amount data... say a list of 50 images paths or 100 quotes amount to 20K. It is small matter for the RAM to keep these lists in memory and not have to go "searching" again, so you have performance gain when you come back to say -- Stack "story" There are two ways to go with this: 1) keep adding "keys" to the BIG global sConfigA OR 2) we could keep the custom properties of Stack Engine (which is always open) Does anyone have experience and has come to "best practices" for this architecture? And why? How does Levure handle this? BR From ahsoftware at sonic.net Sun Sep 1 12:57:47 2019 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2019 09:57:47 -0700 Subject: Globals in Modular Stack Framework In-Reply-To: <335B52EA-3965-42F1-A8E5-E95A453D85D6@hindu.org> References: <335B52EA-3965-42F1-A8E5-E95A453D85D6@hindu.org> Message-ID: On 9/1/19 7:48 AM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode wrote: > There are two ways to go with this: > > 1) keep adding "keys" to the BIG global sConfigA > OR > 2) we could keep the custom properties of Stack Engine (which is always open) > > Does anyone have experience and has come to "best practices" for this architecture? And why? One way I deal with this situation is with getter and setter functions: It's a step away from global variables and you have more control and flexibility. # in the main "engine" stack (move sConfigA here) local sConfigA function configArray pKey if pKey is empty then return sConfigA # return the whole array if needed else return sConfigA[pKey] # return just the requested value end if end configArray command setConfigTo pKey, pValue put pValue into sConfigA[pKey] end setConfigTo # in the "modular" stacks you can then setConfigTo tKey, tValue put configArray() into tRetrievalArray put configArray(tKey) into tValue -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sun Sep 1 15:15:47 2019 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2019 15:15:47 -0400 Subject: Hactoberfest is coming... In-Reply-To: <7FBFF079-26F6-4469-810D-301DAEA300D8@pidigital.co.uk> References: <3e3a2f1b-4f8e-4504-bf29-300450a21776@Spark> <7FBFF079-26F6-4469-810D-301DAEA300D8@pidigital.co.uk> Message-ID: Here is your first request for: * Repos to add to the list of LC projects to be targeted for some effort. So far I've added the LC IDE and Levure * Issues and bug reports to be added to the list of things the community might be able to tackle and resolve quickly, everything from minor bugs or documentation issues all the way up to IDE mods. * Contributors who are interested in helping to maintain the 100% unofficial, unsanctioned livecode hacktoberfest project and maybe turn it into something better. Go to https://macmikey.github.io/lc-hacktoberfest/ Fork or clone the repo Have at it Commit and issue a pull request back. On Sat, Aug 31, 2019 at 5:47 PM Pi Digital via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Good work, thanks Mikey. > > Sean Cole > Pi Digital Prod Ltd > > > On 31 Aug 2019, at 22:27, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > OK, Mikey's 100% unofficial livecode hacktoberfest idea exchange repo is > > now live. > > https://macmikey.github.io/lc-hacktoberfest/ > > > > > > > > On Fri, Aug 30, 2019 at 11:22 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > >> Yes, very good idea. I got my first shirt last year. > >> > >> Thanks, > >> Brian > >> On Aug 30, 2019, 11:05 PM -0400, Mikey via use-livecode < > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>, wrote: > >>> Hactoberfest is a month away. That's github's event that awards some > swag > >>> like tshirts and stickers in exchange for pull requests to open source > >>> repos. Last year to get your swag you had to submit 4 PR's. > >>> We've got a month, so maybe now would be a good time to develop a list > of > >>> LC repos that deserve our time, changes/additions/features we want to > >>> implement, and get a bunch of people into the swing of contributing to > >>> these LC projects. > >>> We also need to help the people who have never done this help > themselves. > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> use-livecode mailing list > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > > > > > > -- > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > and did a little diving. > > And God said, "This is good." > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From hh at hyperhh.de Sun Sep 1 16:11:48 2019 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2019 22:11:48 +0200 Subject: How to disable Navigation/BackNavigation in the browser widget Message-ID: As this was several times a question in the forum and also in the use-list here a method that works in the browser widget (without redirecting) on all platforms that support the widget. Browser widget usage example #27: NoNavigation/NoBackNavigation http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?p=182828#p182828 You can choose to have ? either no navigation at all or ? no back navigation only from the current page by simply using check buttons. From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sun Sep 1 17:48:49 2019 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2019 16:48:49 -0500 Subject: Launch vs Set in widget In-Reply-To: <87b51705886849995549f16e127ad528@livecode.com> References: <67ADC9ED-6B10-4B17-8403-F875C30088B3@pidigital.co.uk> <16cea2c3348.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <87b51705886849995549f16e127ad528@livecode.com> Message-ID: This is long, so most of you will probably want to skip it. On 9/1/19 6:48 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: > > Hmmm - you say 'on your Pixel' - have you observed the behavior on other > devices, or indeed other Pixels? (It might be worth creating a Pixel > emulator which will be in factory state and see if you get the same > behavior). I'll try it on my ancient Samsung S5, but it may very well be my Pixel. It won't always load an entire file into the browser widget either, but different testers using a Pixel, Pixel 2 and a Moto G4 did fine. If it's just my phone that would be good. Wouldn't an emulator use the GPU on my Mac, where everything works fine in the IDE? The browser is loading all its HTML files from the Documents folder on the device if that matters, there are no internet URLs. > > The mobileCreate and browser widget use the same system classes so I'd > be surprised if it made any difference switching - especially as the issue > sounds like it is to do with navigating between pages in the widget > which is the concern of the system webview class, rather than the engine. Thanks, that will save me rewriting the scripts to test it. > > One thing which might be instructive is to capture the logcat whilst you > run your app and then cause it to become 'not responding' - such situations > are usually accompanied by quite a lot of log lines, especially if some > sort of internal exception is occurring. If I can, I'll try it. I have to look up my notes. > >> I badly need to be able to respond to the backKey too, but apparently >> that's not possible. The widget eats it. As for acceleratedRendering, >> it's broken. I had to turn it off completely. > > Looking at the engine code if you are using the browser widget then you > should be getting the 'backKey' message as normal - if you are using > mobileCreate browser, then *that* would eat it. Do you have a mobileCreate > "browser" instance lurking somewhere still by accident? I'm sure there is no other browser instance anywhere. The stack was created with the widget in place and I haven't put in any code yet for mobileCreate. My goal is to use the backKey only for stack navigation, while still allowing the user to navigate when clicking the links in the browser content. Actually, I wouldn't care if the backKey did traverse the history as long as the card gets the message when the history is exhausted. Links frequently need to load a new file from disk. Right now, clicking browser links works a few times, then the entire app freezes and the only recourse is to quit when the "not responding" message appears. > > [ I might have read the engine code wrong though... ] > > When you say 'acceleratedRendering' is broken, can you elaborate? > > FWIW, we've been using acceleratedRendering alongside browser widgets > internally on Android extensively and haven't seen any issues... I was a bit vague. The acceleratedRendering issues occur throughout, and do not occur when acceleratedRendering is completely turned off. There is a mainstack with two substacks, one of which has the browser widget, but acceleratedRendering redraws are bad everywhere. Originally I set ACR in preOpenStack on the 3-card mainstack and in both substacks. It seems the browser widget doesn't need that, so I've removed ACR from that stack. The mainstack has a login card, a TOC (Table of Contents) card, and the main content card. All navigation uses visual effects to emulate swiping. FullscreenMode is "showAll". With ACR on in preOpenStack: 1. Going from login to TOC is fine. 2. Going from TOC to content is fine the first time. Going back to the TOC is okay, but returning to the content causes a kind of double display hiccup; you see the old content, then the new content, then the visual effect happens and the new content is there. I showed this to Ian at the conference and he said my script should work, but I haven't been able to create a test stack to report it since it requires the whole app world to function. 3. The user can change "cards" by swiping, the screen is locked, content updated from a script-local array, and unlocked with "visual effect in rect". Sometimes it works great. Other times there is random junk drawn (my testers see this, they described it as "diagonal lines.") On my Pixel, the entire card goes multicolor chaotic garbage. My testers said the "lines" only last a moment and then the actual content appears. On my Pixel, the card never does appear, the random garbage doesn't respond to taps, and I need to quit and restart the app. 4. Going from the browser stack back to the mainstack causes the browser widget to remain on screen, obscuring the destination card. I don't think it is really there, because tapping where a control should be would redraw the content and the phantom browser disappears. I tried hiding the widget before leaving its stack but it would not hide. To attempt to fix it: I removed ACR from the preOpenStack and put it into the handler that creates native scrollers, since that's the only place I really need it. ACR is turned off again when the mobile controls are deleted which always happens before card or content changes. With this change: 5. The double-display when leaving the TOC, and the random chaos on my screen is gone, but I see a black screen instead. It does not remain, so I am able to continue, but card changes almost always blink black. 6. The widget navigates normally as long as the freeze-up doesn't happen first and I tap the on-screen back arrow instead of the backKey. But if I tap the backKey while a file is loading into the widget (which takes a long time,) it goes back to the mainstack and the widget overlays the destination card as it did before. I can't create bug-report stacks since everything depends on the whole app structure being in place. Maybe I'll send Panos the whole thing and ask him to wade through it. None of this happens when ACR is not used at all, but my scrollers are jerky. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sun Sep 1 17:51:18 2019 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2019 16:51:18 -0500 Subject: Show Script in New Window In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <78ab3b4a-3957-8bc8-6496-f752d33d23e1@hyperactivesw.com> I only have one monitor and I don't see that. On 9/1/19 8:43 AM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode wrote: > On Mac, 9.5 stable, Script Editor, clicking on a tab to "Move to New Window". > > Take that script and moves it out to full screen window, with no way to minimize or go "back" > > at which point one cannot interact with a) the stack b) another script > > Can anyone else confirm this behavior. ( have three monitors -- may be complicating the issue) > > BR -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sun Sep 1 18:32:59 2019 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2019 18:32:59 -0400 Subject: Maintenance forever? In-Reply-To: References: <8E7F7387-DC30-46BD-84A5-A0C04110C1D2@iotecdigital.com> <58E1BEC4-F261-4050-A115-F5B2E3B9D522@all-auctions.com> <4877C653-1CE1-4BBF-8817-C6E4322CED91@livecode.com> Message-ID: Ugh. I feel your pain on the RAID failure. We had one fail on our primary ERP server about a month ago when a drive controller bit it. The corruption then propogated to the rest of the array. The machine first locked up then was unbootable. About five hours later the team gave up on the transaction log because it took a hit as well. The good news was it happened on a Friday, so even though the guys were working on it through Sunday, operations were only minimally affected by it. -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Mon Sep 2 03:17:06 2019 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe) Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2019 09:17:06 +0200 Subject: Show Script in New Window In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1A9C0966-DB5E-48AD-82A8-72030E733FC6@m-r-d.de> I am not sure if i can follow your steps, but tried here on Mac OS I?ve opened two scripts in SE. I?ve moved one script into new window by right clicking the tab -> move to new window I?ve then pressed the circle with backslash icon on the window title of that new SE window to go to fullscreen If i then move my mouse cursor to the top of the screen then after 1 seconds or so the window title bar appears on screen and i can press again on the circle with backslash icon to resize the window again. I have a dual screen setup here. If i missed something in my steps then please let me know and explain the exact steps, i will try then again. Regards, Matthias Matthias Rebbe free tools for Livecoders: InstaMaker WinSignMaker Mac > Am 01.09.2019 um 15:43 schrieb Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode >: > > On Mac, 9.5 stable, Script Editor, clicking on a tab to "Move to New Window". > > Take that script and moves it out to full screen window, with no way to minimize or go "back" > > at which point one cannot interact with a) the stack b) another script > > Can anyone else confirm this behavior. ( have three monitors -- may be complicating the issue) > > BR > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From brahma at hindu.org Mon Sep 2 10:24:42 2019 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2019 14:24:42 +0000 Subject: Globals in Modular Stack Framework In-Reply-To: References: <335B52EA-3965-42F1-A8E5-E95A453D85D6@hindu.org> Message-ID: "setters" and "getters" Hmm. I actually use that on a different module actually, after talking with Andre.. . what I am trying to do is create "caches" where a process does not need to run, say, every time you hit a card. so he says "don't use config" ? sCacheA. # is a better name Once you set up the "setter" and "getter" in the "engine" ? it's almost the same amt of code in the modular stack? I'll try it?custom props don't work, because, during development, they are saved? which is not what you want for "caches" BR Mark wrote One way I deal with this situation is with getter and setter functions: It's a step away from global variables and you have more control and flexibility. # in the main "engine" stack (move sConfigA here) local sConfigA function configArray pKey if pKey is empty then return sConfigA # return the whole array if needed else return sConfigA[pKey] # return just the requested value end if end configArray command setConfigTo pKey, pValue put pValue into sConfigA[pKey] end setConfigTo # in the "modular" stacks you can then setConfigTo tKey, tValue put configArray() into tRetrievalArray put configArray(tKey) into tValue . From panos.merakos at livecode.com Mon Sep 2 10:27:54 2019 From: panos.merakos at livecode.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2019 17:27:54 +0300 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 192 Message-ID: Hi all, Read about new developments in LiveCode open source and the open source community in today's edition of the "This Week in LiveCode" newsletter! Read issue #192 here: http://bit.ly/2lWfI3Z This is a weekly newsletter about LiveCode, focussing on what's been going on in and around the open source project. New issues will be released weekly on Mondays. We have a dedicated mailing list that will deliver each issue directly to you e-mail, so you don't miss any! If you have anything you'd like mentioned (a project, a discussion somewhere, an upcoming event) then please get in touch. -- Panagiotis Merakos LiveCode Software Developer Everyone Can Create Apps From brahma at hindu.org Mon Sep 2 10:49:53 2019 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2019 14:49:53 +0000 Subject: Show Script in New Window In-Reply-To: <1A9C0966-DB5E-48AD-82A8-72030E733FC6@m-r-d.de> References: <1A9C0966-DB5E-48AD-82A8-72030E733FC6@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: Matthias Somehow today, Move to new window, opened full screen, but was able to move it up enough to grab the lower right resizer, shrink the screen. Now, a click on the tab of another script: Move to new window: Opens in the small rect of the previous one. show how the IDE is "caching" the rect of revscripteditor windows. /Applications/LiveCode Business 9.5.0.app/Contents/Tools/Toolset/palettes/script editor/revscripteditor.8.rev now, subsequent windows, open to that rect. I use "Collect My Stacks" Plug in sometimes to solve this problem. Especially when I unplug the large monitors, Livecode "remembesr" where they were in a 3 monitor set up. but now you only have one. But it would be nice to have in the IDE. Both Center all stack on screen (but not change the rect) and adjust rect of IDE windows, to fit on screen. BR I am not sure if i can follow your steps, but tried here on Mac OS I?ve opened two scripts in SE. I?ve moved one script into new window by right clicking the tab -> move to new window I?ve then pressed the circle with backslash icon on the window title of that new SE window to go to fullscreen If i then move my mouse cursor to the top of the screen then after 1 seconds or so the window title bar appears on screen and i can press again on the circle with backslash icon to resize the window again. I have a dual screen setup here.? If i missed something in my steps then please let me know and explain the exact steps, i will try then again. From dan at clearvisiontech.com Tue Sep 3 01:06:10 2019 From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman) Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2019 05:06:10 +0000 Subject: iOS + UIWebView = Denied! Message-ID: So, I uploaded an update to TestFlight today, and this is what I got from Apple: ITMS-90809: Deprecated API Usage - Apple will stop accepting submissions of apps that use UIWebView APIs . See https://developer.apple.com/documentation/uikit/uiwebview for more information. Anyone know what this is about? I'm guessing the LC Browser Widget is now invalid/deprecated? -Dan From mark at livecode.com Tue Sep 3 01:22:59 2019 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2019 06:22:59 +0100 Subject: iOS + UIWebView = Denied! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8c0c662c9ef1eba842ceb4524fa245e8@livecode.com> On 2019-09-03 06:06, Dan Friedman via use-livecode wrote: > So, I uploaded an update to TestFlight today, and this is what I got > from Apple: > > ITMS-90809: Deprecated API Usage - Apple will stop accepting > submissions of apps that use UIWebView APIs . See > https://developer.apple.com/documentation/uikit/uiwebview for more > information. > > Anyone know what this is about? I'm guessing the LC Browser Widget is > now invalid/deprecated? Not quite yet - it is just a warning at this point - you can still submit your app and it will be accepted. We have been aware of this for a while (although, as usual Apple give precious little warning about when the axe will fall) and have been working hard on adding a WKWebView (the non-deprecated replacement) backend to the browser widget which will solve the problem. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From zryip.theslug at gmail.com Tue Sep 3 10:18:17 2019 From: zryip.theslug at gmail.com (zryip theSlug) Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2019 16:18:17 +0200 Subject: [ANN] DGH 2.6.0 Gives More Colors To Your Datagrids Tables Message-ID: Dear Livecode and DGH Users, We have just released a new version of DGH! New: - Column header color and column color: - It is now possible to color column headers (label and background) and column. - The DGH_Properties script has changed to support columns colorization. - Properties for coloring header and column are settable column by column inside the DGH's columns creator. Fixed bug: - Reorganizing columns no working when columns names are quite identical. - SpreadSheet Behaviors: the behavior path was stored as absolute. It is now relative. - On windows, popup palettes such as behavior picker might stay on back after a first action. Improvements: - Column builder: Refrehing the datagrid preview has been rethought to be more optimized expecially when the datagrid containing more than 10 columns. For more informations about DGH, you can go: - on our website: https://www.aslugontheroad.com/ourproducts/2-what-is-dgh - or on the LiveCode Store https://livecode.com/extensions/data-grid-helper/2-5-0/ Best Regards, -- Zryip TheSlug http://www.aslugontheroad.com From dan at clearvisiontech.com Tue Sep 3 10:49:37 2019 From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman) Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2019 14:49:37 +0000 Subject: iOS + UIWebView = Denied! In-Reply-To: <8c0c662c9ef1eba842ceb4524fa245e8@livecode.com> References: <8c0c662c9ef1eba842ceb4524fa245e8@livecode.com> Message-ID: Mark, That's good to hear! Thanks for the info. -Dan ?On 9/2/19, 10:23 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Mark Waddingham via use-livecode" wrote: On 2019-09-03 06:06, Dan Friedman via use-livecode wrote: > So, I uploaded an update to TestFlight today, and this is what I got > from Apple: > > ITMS-90809: Deprecated API Usage - Apple will stop accepting > submissions of apps that use UIWebView APIs . See > https://developer.apple.com/documentation/uikit/uiwebview for more > information. > > Anyone know what this is about? I'm guessing the LC Browser Widget is > now invalid/deprecated? Not quite yet - it is just a warning at this point - you can still submit your app and it will be accepted. We have been aware of this for a while (although, as usual Apple give precious little warning about when the axe will fall) and have been working hard on adding a WKWebView (the non-deprecated replacement) backend to the browser widget which will solve the problem. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From brahma at hindu.org Tue Sep 3 11:12:44 2019 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2019 15:12:44 +0000 Subject: Saving In Script Only Format Message - Really Needed Message-ID: <77B64F71-7F49-4ABE-AB54-0D94281E7DF3@hindu.org> When we open a script only stack in the SE. And save it, we are getting the annoying message now. "Saving in script only format will result in loss of data as only the script will be save. Are you sure you wish to continue? No | Yes " Given that the 1. the dev *wants* to save the script only file and 2. the binary file will tell you if needs saving when decide to close it. We do we need this dialog to appear? I am missing something -- what "data loss" is likely to occur? BR From harrison at all-auctions.com Tue Sep 3 11:28:37 2019 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison) Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2019 11:28:37 -0400 Subject: Saving In Script Only Format Message - Really Needed In-Reply-To: <77B64F71-7F49-4ABE-AB54-0D94281E7DF3@hindu.org> References: <77B64F71-7F49-4ABE-AB54-0D94281E7DF3@hindu.org> Message-ID: Hi Sannyasin, It sounds like this is just a warning message to remind you that you are only saving the script and not saving the entire stack that may contain data. Hence the risk of data loss. It?s just a warning I think you can feel free to ignore it, as long as you understand what it is trying to tell you. I hope this information helps to clarify things for you. Rick > On Sep 3, 2019, at 11:12 AM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode wrote: > > When we open a script only stack in the SE. And save it, we are getting the annoying message now. > > "Saving in script only format will result in > loss of data as only the script will be save. > Are you sure you wish to continue? > No | Yes > " > Given that the > > > 1. the dev *wants* to save the script only file and > 2. the binary file will tell you if needs saving when decide to close it. > > We do we need this dialog to appear? I am missing something -- what "data loss" is likely to occur? > > BR > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Tue Sep 3 11:55:12 2019 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2019 11:55:12 -0400 Subject: Compiles But Does Not Execute In-Reply-To: References: <77B64F71-7F49-4ABE-AB54-0D94281E7DF3@hindu.org> Message-ID: <004601d5626f$fb3d2d00$f1b78700$@net> I had a cut-and-paste mistake. I wonder why this compiles but throws an error at execution time? Is this a bug or a parser anomaly? Took me a few minutes to spot it as it was a small change to LC server code and had to debug via a test routine in the IDE. put ">" after tStr after tStr Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net From tom at makeshyft.com Tue Sep 3 12:28:48 2019 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2019 12:28:48 -0400 Subject: Compiles But Does Not Execute In-Reply-To: <004601d5626f$fb3d2d00$f1b78700$@net> References: <77B64F71-7F49-4ABE-AB54-0D94281E7DF3@hindu.org> <004601d5626f$fb3d2d00$f1b78700$@net> Message-ID: yeah i've had a few ones like that ...... its like it doesn't go through the rest of the line after it has the destination of the put. I bet if you put this into 9.5 the debugger will catch it. On Tue, Sep 3, 2019 at 11:54 AM Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I had a cut-and-paste mistake. I wonder why this compiles but throws an > error at execution time? Is this a bug or a parser anomaly? Took me a few > minutes to spot it as it was a small change to LC server code and had to > debug via a test routine in the IDE. > > put ">" after tStr after tStr > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From roland.huettmann at gmail.com Tue Sep 3 14:10:26 2019 From: roland.huettmann at gmail.com (R.H.) Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2019 20:10:26 +0200 Subject: Forum messages no longer distributed? Message-ID: Since August 31st I do no longer receive daily email messages from the Forum. Am I the only one? Roland From iphonelagi at gmail.com Tue Sep 3 15:00:25 2019 From: iphonelagi at gmail.com (Lagi Pittas) Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2019 20:00:25 +0100 Subject: Forum messages no longer distributed? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: #metoo Lagi On Tue, 3 Sep 2019 at 19:11, R.H. via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Since August 31st I do no longer receive daily email messages from the > Forum. Am I the only one? > > Roland > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Tue Sep 3 16:58:38 2019 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2019 15:58:38 -0500 Subject: Forum messages no longer distributed? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5b4efd62-61b8-eb96-f089-e8caad5f4e93@hyperactivesw.com> On 9/3/19 1:10 PM, R.H. via use-livecode wrote: > Since August 31st I do no longer receive daily email messages from the > Forum. Am I the only one? Same. Can you report it please? -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From brahma at hindu.org Tue Sep 3 20:29:27 2019 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2019 00:29:27 +0000 Subject: Saving In Script Only Format Message - Really Needed In-Reply-To: References: <77B64F71-7F49-4ABE-AB54-0D94281E7DF3@hindu.org> Message-ID: <86E77AF7-5E2F-4E31-B331-6F962C16CEAD@hindu.org> "foot in mouth" embarrassing? I somehow added chars-string to the app folder name, Git repository, in the background. I use LaunchBar extensively, with 50 "clipboards" retained? I must have hit and selected the folder name and then cmd-\ when I meant "return" (should change that? is to close the return key!) So then the app has stack files with wrong paths in the IDE (which I had not quit since yesterday) fortunately I was "thinking about how to do stuff" rather than coding. Thank God for Time machine. I went back to yesterday morning, and the right folder name. Everything is fine. Having never seen that dialog before. Now I know that something is really out of wack with the directory hierarchy, should I ever see it again? > "Saving in script only format will result in > loss of data as only the script will be save. > Are you sure you wish to continue? >??????????No | Yes Watch out! BR From heather at livecode.com Wed Sep 4 05:13:44 2019 From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine) Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2019 10:13:44 +0100 Subject: Forum messages no longer distributed? In-Reply-To: <5b4efd62-61b8-eb96-f089-e8caad5f4e93@hyperactivesw.com> References: <5b4efd62-61b8-eb96-f089-e8caad5f4e93@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <2F188E3A-DA34-4E01-8E96-A533925F553D@livecode.com> Dear me, it would appear you are correct. I'll take a look. Regards, Heather Heather Laine Customer Services Manager LiveCode Ltd www.livecode.com > On 3 Sep 2019, at 21:58, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > > On 9/3/19 1:10 PM, R.H. via use-livecode wrote: >> Since August 31st I do no longer receive daily email messages from the >> Forum. Am I the only one? > > Same. Can you report it please? > > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From martyknappster at gmail.com Wed Sep 4 12:41:49 2019 From: martyknappster at gmail.com (Marty Knapp) Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2019 09:41:49 -0700 Subject: Notarizing Message-ID: Hello Matthias, I hope you don?t mind me asking a question, but perhaps other are confused too. I have successfully notarized my app and I get an email from Apple saying that is was successful and that I can now ?export" and distribute my app. So that confused me. Perhaps that?s just a step for folks who build apps in Xcode? If not, from where do I export? Or is my local DMG or app (the zipped version I would presume) now notarized and stapled? Thanks for all your work on this - it is much appreciated. --- Marty Knapp From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Wed Sep 4 15:23:18 2019 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe) Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2019 21:23:18 +0200 Subject: Notarizing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5638C08B-F9E1-4518-94E3-23379C5DB238@m-r-d.de> Hello Marty, i am reallly sorry if my explanations were not clear enough, as not native English it?s sometimes a little bit difficult to find the correct technical expressions in English. Apple?s email is a generic email. So just ignore the part with the exporting in it. The complete Notarizing process is a 2 step process 1 - Notarizing (required) 2 - Stapling (optional) Step 1 uploading a DMG containing the app or a Zip containingg the app to Apple. Apple then is checking the App in the DMG /ZIP. The result of the check then is sent to you in a confirmation email. If the email informs you, that the app is ready for distribution, then you could distribute the Zip or the DMG, right away. But without Step 2 everytime the app is launched on the customer?s Mac, Gatekeeper connects to Apple?s servers and asks if the App was notarized. If this is confirmed by Apple then the App will be launched. But in case there is no internet connection available, then Gatekeeper cannot connect to Apple?s servers and therefore the app cannot be launched. So, although the 2nd step is not mandatory, it is recommended. The 2nd step then is Stapling the Notarization ticket id to the app. With this ticket attached to the App/DMG the app can be launched on the customer?s Mac without Gatekeeper asking Apple about the Notarization status. My Helper stack is doing both steps. So the DMG and the app in it and also the source app are notarized and stapled. When doing the 2 steps but uploading a Zip file with the stack, then only the source app is stapled, as it is not possible to staple a Zip file. I?ve created a litte diagram which shows an overview about Notarization and Stapling using the DMG or Zip method. Maybe this is useful https://dl.qck.nu/?dl=Notarize_an_App.pdf Regards, Matthias Matthias Rebbe Matthias Rebbe free tools for Livecoders: InstaMaker WinSignMaker Mac > Am 04.09.2019 um 18:41 schrieb Marty Knapp via use-livecode >: > > Hello Matthias, > I hope you don?t mind me asking a question, but perhaps other are confused too. I have successfully notarized my app and I get an email from Apple saying that is was successful and that I can now ?export" and distribute my app. So that confused me. Perhaps that?s just a step for folks who build apps in Xcode? If not, from where do I export? Or is my local DMG or app (the zipped version I would presume) now notarized and stapled? > > Thanks for all your work on this - it is much appreciated. > > --- > Marty Knapp > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ahsoftware at sonic.net Wed Sep 4 15:25:32 2019 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2019 12:25:32 -0700 Subject: A history of Tetris random-number generators Message-ID: https://simon.lc/the-history-of-tetris-randomizers ...and... if you need a random number generator, you might try the League of Entropy: https://www.cloudflare.com/leagueofentropy/ https://www.cloudflare.com/learning/ssl/lava-lamp-encryption/ Of course, my favorite random number generator is still reverse-biasing a germanium diode and running the output through an analog-digital converter. But that's just me. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From martyknappster at gmail.com Wed Sep 4 15:27:43 2019 From: martyknappster at gmail.com (Marty Knapp) Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2019 12:27:43 -0700 Subject: Notarizing In-Reply-To: <5638C08B-F9E1-4518-94E3-23379C5DB238@m-r-d.de> References: <5638C08B-F9E1-4518-94E3-23379C5DB238@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <65886310-57A6-4731-BFD2-C40C3EE3AEF1@gmail.com> Thank you Matthias! I appreciate you getting back to me so quickly and for all your work on this - very helpful. --- Marty Knapp > On Sep 4, 2019, at 12:23 PM, Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode wrote: > > Hello Marty, > > i am reallly sorry if my explanations were not clear enough, as not native English it?s sometimes a little bit difficult to find the correct technical expressions in English. > > Apple?s email is a generic email. So just ignore the part with the exporting in it. > > > The complete Notarizing process is a 2 step process > 1 - Notarizing (required) > 2 - Stapling (optional) > > Step 1 uploading a DMG containing the app or a Zip containingg the app to Apple. > Apple then is checking the App in the DMG /ZIP. The result of the check then is sent to you in a confirmation email. > If the email informs you, that the app is ready for distribution, then you could distribute the Zip or the DMG, right away. > > But without Step 2 everytime the app is launched on the customer?s Mac, Gatekeeper connects to Apple?s servers and asks if the App was notarized. If this is confirmed by Apple then the App will be launched. But in case there is no internet connection available, then Gatekeeper cannot connect to Apple?s servers and therefore the app cannot be launched. > > So, although the 2nd step is not mandatory, it is recommended. > The 2nd step then is Stapling the Notarization ticket id to the app. With this ticket attached to the App/DMG the app can be launched on the customer?s Mac without Gatekeeper asking Apple about the Notarization status. > > > My Helper stack is doing both steps. So the DMG and the app in it and also the source app are notarized and stapled. > When doing the 2 steps but uploading a Zip file with the stack, then only the source app is stapled, as it is not possible to staple a Zip file. > > I?ve created a litte diagram which shows an overview about Notarization and Stapling using the DMG or Zip method. Maybe this is useful > > https://dl.qck.nu/?dl=Notarize_an_App.pdf > > > Regards, > > Matthias > > Matthias Rebbe > Matthias Rebbe > > free tools for Livecoders: > InstaMaker > WinSignMaker Mac > >> Am 04.09.2019 um 18:41 schrieb Marty Knapp via use-livecode >: >> >> Hello Matthias, >> I hope you don?t mind me asking a question, but perhaps other are confused too. I have successfully notarized my app and I get an email from Apple saying that is was successful and that I can now ?export" and distribute my app. So that confused me. Perhaps that?s just a step for folks who build apps in Xcode? If not, from where do I export? Or is my local DMG or app (the zipped version I would presume) now notarized and stapled? >> >> Thanks for all your work on this - it is much appreciated. >> >> --- >> Marty Knapp >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Wed Sep 4 16:25:43 2019 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2019 16:25:43 -0400 Subject: A history of Tetris random-number generators In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <006101d5635e$efe9f2e0$cfbdd8a0$@net> Mark, What's the geek here? Is the reverse-bias leakage of a germanium diode random? Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Mark Wieder via use-livecode Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2019 3:26 PM To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Cc: Mark Wieder Subject: A history of Tetris random-number generators https://simon.lc/the-history-of-tetris-randomizers ...and... if you need a random number generator, you might try the League of Entropy: https://www.cloudflare.com/leagueofentropy/ https://www.cloudflare.com/learning/ssl/lava-lamp-encryption/ Of course, my favorite random number generator is still reverse-biasing a germanium diode and running the output through an analog-digital converter. But that's just me. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Sep 4 17:19:09 2019 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2019 21:19:09 +0000 Subject: A history of Tetris random-number generators In-Reply-To: <006101d5635e$efe9f2e0$cfbdd8a0$@net> References: <006101d5635e$efe9f2e0$cfbdd8a0$@net> Message-ID: Not if you dwell outside space and time. Bob S > On Sep 4, 2019, at 13:25 , Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote: > > Mark, > What's the geek here? Is the reverse-bias leakage of a germanium diode > random? > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net From ahsoftware at sonic.net Wed Sep 4 20:38:32 2019 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2019 17:38:32 -0700 Subject: A history of Tetris random-number generators In-Reply-To: <006101d5635e$efe9f2e0$cfbdd8a0$@net> References: <006101d5635e$efe9f2e0$cfbdd8a0$@net> Message-ID: <10f07a73-2331-8ecc-4cd9-7a1f99fc9064@sonic.net> On 9/4/19 1:25 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote: > Mark, > What's the geek here? Is the reverse-bias leakage of a germanium diode > random? There's a lot to be said for white noise. Pink noise too, but that's another subject. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From benr_mc at cogapp.com Thu Sep 5 14:37:15 2019 From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2019 19:37:15 +0100 Subject: Using LiveCode & AppleScript to make mouse selection in another Mac application Message-ID: <8a9d74a6-0c89-577b-a9ef-4ca6a8283c45@cogapp.com> As the title says... I had a recollection that it was possible to construct a tool in LiveCode that would use AppleScript, System Events, and the accessibility framework to perform actions on another (not naturally scriptable) app. I can do menu items, I can do keystrokes - but can I move the mouse? Or more to the point, can I move the mouse to a location, then click and drag to a new location? Automator appears to be able to do this as a recording, which works once as a single step - but ever since hangs on playback (amusingly, it moves the mouse to the first point and then refuses to let it be moved anywhere else - pulling it back if it is - the only escape seems to be to use the keyboard to open a terminal and kill Automator). Did I dream this, or is it possible? TIA, Ben From tom at makeshyft.com Thu Sep 5 15:59:32 2019 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2019 15:59:32 -0400 Subject: Using LiveCode & AppleScript to make mouse selection in another Mac application In-Reply-To: <8a9d74a6-0c89-577b-a9ef-4ca6a8283c45@cogapp.com> References: <8a9d74a6-0c89-577b-a9ef-4ca6a8283c45@cogapp.com> Message-ID: I dunno if this works.... but you can try do myscript as "Applescript" abd your myscript can be tell application "System Events" click at {123,456}end tell I'm currently working on debugging a tool that uses applescript to send keystrokes..and i'm finding it inconsistent ...but it could just be me, so for now I won't say that its the applescript functionality. On Thu, Sep 5, 2019 at 2:38 PM Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > As the title says... > > I had a recollection that it was possible to construct a tool in LiveCode > that > would use AppleScript, System Events, and the accessibility framework to > perform actions on another (not naturally scriptable) app. > > I can do menu items, I can do keystrokes - but can I move the mouse? Or > more > to the point, can I move the mouse to a location, then click and drag to a > new > location? > > Automator appears to be able to do this as a recording, which works once > as a > single step - but ever since hangs on playback (amusingly, it moves the > mouse > to the first point and then refuses to let it be moved anywhere else - > pulling > it back if it is - the only escape seems to be to use the keyboard to open > a > terminal and kill Automator). > > Did I dream this, or is it possible? > > TIA, > > Ben > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From mkoob at rogers.com Thu Sep 5 17:00:50 2019 From: mkoob at rogers.com (Martin Koob) Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2019 17:00:50 -0400 Subject: Using LiveCode & AppleScript to make mouse selection in another Mac application In-Reply-To: <8a9d74a6-0c89-577b-a9ef-4ca6a8283c45@cogapp.com> References: <8a9d74a6-0c89-577b-a9ef-4ca6a8283c45@cogapp.com> Message-ID: <06C172CB-2461-4086-B267-DE585E80AB40@rogers.com> Hi Are you wanting to moved object or a UI element to a new location which you would normally do with a mouse drag? If so the application you are trying to script may have a ?move' command. Open the dictionary for the application you are scripting in the AppleScript Script Editor application and check whether it has a move command. I just checked and System Events has move in its dictionary as well as Finder and Calendar. Would this achieve what you are trying to do? I haven?t used this command so can?t give you any more info than this but I seems it would work in some cases. Hope that helps. Regards, Martin Koob > On Sep 5, 2019, at 2:37 PM, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode wrote: > > As the title says... > > I had a recollection that it was possible to construct a tool in LiveCode that would use AppleScript, System Events, and the accessibility framework to perform actions on another (not naturally scriptable) app. > > I can do menu items, I can do keystrokes - but can I move the mouse? Or more to the point, can I move the mouse to a location, then click and drag to a new location? > > Automator appears to be able to do this as a recording, which works once as a single step - but ever since hangs on playback (amusingly, it moves the mouse to the first point and then refuses to let it be moved anywhere else - pulling it back if it is - the only escape seems to be to use the keyboard to open a terminal and kill Automator). > > Did I dream this, or is it possible? > > TIA, > > Ben > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mkoob at rogers.com Thu Sep 5 17:05:48 2019 From: mkoob at rogers.com (Martin Koob) Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2019 17:05:48 -0400 Subject: Using LiveCode & AppleScript to make mouse selection in another Mac application In-Reply-To: <06C172CB-2461-4086-B267-DE585E80AB40@rogers.com> References: <8a9d74a6-0c89-577b-a9ef-4ca6a8283c45@cogapp.com> <06C172CB-2461-4086-B267-DE585E80AB40@rogers.com> Message-ID: <289BC5FA-4D92-4B7C-B1C9-B3BE70C56F66@rogers.com> Hi Sorry just read your subject and realized you are trying to select something. What are you trying to select. A line of text, an object? What application are you trying to script? Regards, Martin Koob > On Sep 5, 2019, at 5:00 PM, Martin Koob via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi > > Are you wanting to moved object or a UI element to a new location which you would normally do with a mouse drag? If so the application you are trying to script may have a ?move' command. Open the dictionary for the application you are scripting in the AppleScript Script Editor application and check whether it has a move command. I just checked and System Events has move in its dictionary as well as Finder and Calendar. Would this achieve what you are trying to do? I haven?t used this command so can?t give you any more info than this but I seems it would work in some cases. > > Hope that helps. > > > Regards, > > Martin Koob > > > > > >> On Sep 5, 2019, at 2:37 PM, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode wrote: >> >> As the title says... >> >> I had a recollection that it was possible to construct a tool in LiveCode that would use AppleScript, System Events, and the accessibility framework to perform actions on another (not naturally scriptable) app. >> >> I can do menu items, I can do keystrokes - but can I move the mouse? Or more to the point, can I move the mouse to a location, then click and drag to a new location? >> >> Automator appears to be able to do this as a recording, which works once as a single step - but ever since hangs on playback (amusingly, it moves the mouse to the first point and then refuses to let it be moved anywhere else - pulling it back if it is - the only escape seems to be to use the keyboard to open a terminal and kill Automator). >> >> Did I dream this, or is it possible? >> >> TIA, >> >> Ben >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From michael-kristensen at dsa-net.dk Fri Sep 6 10:15:42 2019 From: michael-kristensen at dsa-net.dk (Michael Kristensen) Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2019 16:15:42 +0200 Subject: Bug: brush and erase tool do not work in a standalone Message-ID: <8984DF8F-06DD-401A-A0BA-18203A761FA6@dsa-net.dk> Hi there The brush and erase tool do not work in a standalone on Mac Livecode 9 and 9.5 Thanks Michael From dochawk at gmail.com Fri Sep 6 16:10:44 2019 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2019 13:10:44 -0700 Subject: high resolution when printing to pdf, either from images or pdf widgets In-Reply-To: References: <01872BE5-DC40-4E3B-9392-77A3929C0694@gmail.com> Message-ID: <06CD497D-1231-427F-9D68-D5CFD11FA0B9@gmail.com> On Aug 28, 2019, at 12:07 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: > > On 2019-08-27 17:24, Dr. Hawkins via use-livecode wrote: >> I?ve seen references, even in the bug report, to ?directly? printing >> to pdf from a widget. > > I'm not entirely clear what Monte meant by 'print to pdf directly' in one > of those comments... The 'print to pdf' mechanism in the engine isn't > really any different from the normal printing mechanism, its just that > rather than funnel the sequence of paths, images, text being rendered > through the system printer it funnels it through libcairo's (https://cairographics.org/) > PDF output functionality. Can this be adjusted for higher resolution? > > If you want to augment an existing PDF with extra content then printing of > any form is not what you want. > *is* there a way to send out at full resolution? > Even when the various rather large and technical moving parts (pdfium, skia, > engine printing architecutre, engine pdf printer) involved in a non-rasterized > approach to printing pdf content displayed in stacks all align they would still > not result in the original pdf being embedded verbatim in the output. I don?t need it to be the original, but rather visually indistinguishable. > > In reality your 'example' of embedding isn't really embedding - its manually > editing a single object's stream to be clipped - PDF's in general tend to be > a fair bit more complicated than that in the general case and indeed not what > most people would want and/or expect (immediate bug report if it did: I printed > a small region of a 100Mb PDF to PDF and my output file was > 100Mb - WHY?!?!). What I did was basically translate largely from postscript. With postscript, I could name the donor file?s commands, and then refuse sections of the donor (in some cases, repeatedly, possibly once, possibly dozens of times ). As I think about it, I don?t think I?ve ever said *anything* nice about pdf. I?ve generally called it a bastardization of postscript, but in this case, ?castration? might be a better word . . . (but then, when talking about cars, I refer to the period from the early 70s to the mid 90s as ?the Great Emasculation? . . .) > > >> In the meantime, though, has anyone actually managed to get hi-res >> output of either a pdf, jpg, or png into an outputted pdf? > > What you should find is that if you have a stack with an image object at size > 100x100 whose image (jpg or png) is actually 400x400, and then print it to pdf > then the full resolution of the image will be preserved. If this is not happening > then chances are there is a property set somewhere which is requiring some sort > of rasterization of the image object meaning the original image data cannot be > preserved (both PNG and JPEG image data passes straight through to the printing > backend when possible). My first attempt seemed to work, save for an approximately 25% size reduction I can?t explain. more below . . . > >> The only way I?m seeing at the moment would be a bizarre process in >> which the stack is duplicated at 400%, and a script looping through to >> expand and replace every field, reposition and change the text size, >> etc., and then open the 33?x44? file in preview (or whatever) and >> export from there as 8.5?x1? . . . > > You shouldn't have to do that - all you should have to do is when printing your > stack... > > 1) set the width and height of your PDF widget to Upscale * the original size > 2) import snapshot from pdf widget (make sure paintCompression is png) > 3) hide pdf widget > 4) set the width and height of the imported image to original size > 5) print > 6) delete image and show pdf widget given a full page 8.5x11? pdf named cd_pdf_wdg, I use the following: on mouseUp local oTl, oRect, nTl, nRect, tgPdf, tgPng, oSiz, nSiz local sDpi=72--108.79 set the paintCompression to "png" if there is a control "joe" then delete control "joe" put the long id of control "cd_pdf_wdg" into tgPdf put the rect of tgPdf into oRect put the height of tgPdf into oSiz put the width of tgPdf into item 2 of oSiz put the topLeft of tgPdf into oTl set the width of tgPdf to 4*8.5*sDpi set the height of tgPdf to 4*11*sDpi set the zoom of tgPdf to 400 set the topLeft of tgPdf to oTl import snapshot from tgPdf --import snapshot from rect the rect of tgPdf put the long id of it into tgPng set the name of tgPng to "joe" set the topLeft of tgPng to 0,0 set the rect of tgPdf to oRect set the zoom of tgPdf to 100 set the rect of tgPng to oRect end mouseUp I get a graphic of the same size as the pdf started, but the image is about 3/4 the original size. The rest is transparent area. My screen density is 108.79, but livecode doesn?t know that at the user code level, does it? However, that reduction *is* similar to 72/108.79 . . before resetting the rect of tgPng, it is indeed at screen resolution. It looks to be about a pixel by pixel rendering of the jumbo pdf. >> And if I could fully figure out the pdf file structure, I could expand >> my example file to write a custom pdf merging the field output with >> other pdfs . . > > In reality if you want original PDF preserved with additions on top then > that is your only option. it looks like pypdf or pypdf2 maybe the best bet here, given licensing. ? Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. The Hawkins Law Firm 3430 E. Flamingo Rd. Suite 232 Las Vegas, NV 89121 (702) 508-8462 From preid at reidit.co.uk Sat Sep 7 07:18:40 2019 From: preid at reidit.co.uk (Peter Reid) Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2019 12:18:40 +0100 Subject: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development? Message-ID: <178E6E41-1FC3-4584-9437-C2DE04AD5BEC@reidit.co.uk> I've been using LiveCode as my development platform since 1999. Practically all the apps I've developed have been for in-house use by my family, friends and customers - all very low numbers of copies distributed in an informal manner. I've no interest in App Store distribution and the users of my apps trust me such that they do not need my apps to be "approved" by Apple. What's more important to them is how quickly I can release new apps and new versions of existing apps. Up to and including macOS Mojave my users can run my apps with the minor inconvenience of having to right-click an app and approve its use, just once. With macOS Catalina, if I understand things, it's not so simple, instead these are the options: 1. Code-sign and notarise my apps ? I'm not interested in this for my kind of apps which are essentially in-house/at home developments. 2. Using an active Internet connection, go through the right-click technique as now not just once, but EVERY time the app is opened. In the past the 'Security & Privacy' General tab had a 3rd option for the setting 'Allow apps downloaded from:' which allowed you to install and use apps from any source. It seems that this is not possible with Catalina. So with Catalina my users will need an Internet connection and will have to go through the right-click authorisation process every time they open one of my apps. More seriously, it is becoming increasingly difficult to recommend the combination of the Mac plus LiveCode for app development. Up to now I've done all my app development on Mac+LC, even where the target platform is Windows or Android or Linux ? I find it's simply faster, less error-prone and more pleasant with the Mac. However, from Catalina onwards even simple little utility apps, created for short-term use, will be tedious when opening or you have to learn about the complexity of code-signing and notarising and accept slower development cycles due to the need for Apple's approval! This is quite depressing, especially since I abandoned iOS development due to Apple's distribution restrictions. Back when the iPad 2 had just been released I developed for one of my customers an app to support health & safety audits for a national UK retail chain. The app took me 15 days to develop in total. As a result of being able to field a team of 10-20 staff with iPads running my app, my customer was able to carry out 350 half-day H&S audits for 3 years. However I was unable to roll-out this app to other customers as the ad hoc distribution method I was using was limited to 100 iPads per year and the App Store was not appropriate for this type of app. As a result of the limitations Apple impose on tablet app distribution, recently I developed a speech-aid app just for small Android tablets and larger phones. I have not made an iOS app. This app is low volume (in terms of number of users) and requires significant personalising in order to be effective for its users (typically they are stroke victims). I chose to deliver the app on Android because of the facility to use developer mode and because of price ? Android 7in tablet plus minimal add-ons: ?80, Apple iPad plus add-ons: ?320. Some of my users of this app already have an iPad but they are having to buy a cheap Android tablet. Like the Mac and Catalina, the iPad and iOS is driving away potential app developers due to Apple's rigid control of the delivery mechanisms. Maybe I'm wrong, Catalina will be OK ? if I am wrong, please correct me! Regards Peter -- Peter Reid Loughborough, UK From mark at livecode.com Sat Sep 7 07:29:23 2019 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Sat, 07 Sep 2019 12:29:23 +0100 Subject: high resolution when printing to pdf, either from images or pdf widgets In-Reply-To: <06CD497D-1231-427F-9D68-D5CFD11FA0B9@gmail.com> References: <01872BE5-DC40-4E3B-9392-77A3929C0694@gmail.com> <06CD497D-1231-427F-9D68-D5CFD11FA0B9@gmail.com> Message-ID: <15502b9068566bc3cd3a9167d2ea54ac@livecode.com> On 2019-09-06 21:10, Dr. Hawkins via use-livecode wrote: > On Aug 28, 2019, at 12:07 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode > wrote: >> >> On 2019-08-27 17:24, Dr. Hawkins via use-livecode wrote: >> I'm not entirely clear what Monte meant by 'print to pdf directly' in >> one >> of those comments... The 'print to pdf' mechanism in the engine isn't >> really any different from the normal printing mechanism, its just that >> rather than funnel the sequence of paths, images, text being rendered >> through the system printer it funnels it through libcairo's >> (https://cairographics.org/) >> PDF output functionality. > > Can this be adjusted for higher resolution? > > *is* there a way to send out at full resolution? I'm not sure I entirely follow - PDF is primarily a vector format so there is 'resolution' as such. In regards to images then the engine/pdfprinter tries to preserve the original image when printing - so if you print a large JPEG scaled down to 100x100, the original JPEG will be passed into the PDF and then that will be scaled down when rendered (i.e. as much information in the original is preserved in the output). > I don?t need it to be the original, but rather visually > indistinguishable. Then that changes things slightly - particularly if your originals are scans which contain images rather than vectors... In this case, the render the PDF at a larger size and scale down approach should be able to give you want you want. > As I think about it, I don?t think I?ve ever said *anything* nice > about pdf. I?ve generally called it a bastardization > of postscript, but in this case, ?castration? might be a better word . > . . (but then, when talking about cars, > I refer to the period from the early 70s to the mid 90s as ?the Great > Emasculation? . . .) Heh - the main thing to remember about PDF is that it is designed to be a description of what a postscript interpreter would output before things get rasterized. The idea is that it is a flat sequence of things to render and thus doesn't require the 'overhead' of a full programming language VM to do so. Of course, whilst it is that, it has also become a rather complicated on-disk data structure. > My first attempt seemed to work, save for an approximately 25% size > reduction I can?t explain. more below . . . > > I get a graphic of the same size as the pdf started, but the image is > about 3/4 the original > size. The rest is transparent area. > > My screen density is 108.79, but livecode doesn?t know that at the > user code level, does it? > However, that reduction *is* similar to 72/108.79 . . Physical screen density is irrelevant here - the engine uses a fixed notion of 72dpi... The 3/4 reduction suggests something PDF side is actually using 96dpi (72/96 = 3/4)... Perhaps Monte could chime in and comment? It might be you just have to adjust the zoom factor to scale up the PDF slightly more so it fills the rect you want. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From jjs at krutt.org Sat Sep 7 07:36:37 2019 From: jjs at krutt.org (JJS) Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2019 13:36:37 +0200 Subject: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development? In-Reply-To: <178E6E41-1FC3-4584-9437-C2DE04AD5BEC@reidit.co.uk> References: <178E6E41-1FC3-4584-9437-C2DE04AD5BEC@reidit.co.uk> Message-ID: <77348e97-2072-7758-3b13-c00793599142@krutt.org> Well said. There is help on this. On of the list members will jump in i guess and he made an excellent tool which will help you out notarizing and all other stuff Apple tries to kill you with. If you already have a Apple dev account (only 100$ per year) which gives you the ability to help 100 people(am i correct?) (thought there was an option for 1000??) then this tool will help you do these things and you can go on with coding as before. I also put stuff on Google Play which is not intended for everybody, but i use a password combination, just like banks do with their apps. Their apps are also not for everyone, but only they who have an account. You could do that too, so only people with access credentials can access the app. Indeed you gave a few reasons why i choose not to develop for Apple, unless i can make enough money with it which compensates for it. Jerry(Sphere) Op 7-9-2019 om 13:18 schreef Peter Reid via use-livecode: > I've been using LiveCode as my development platform since 1999. Practically all the apps I've developed have been for in-house use by my family, friends and customers - all very low numbers of copies distributed in an informal manner. I've no interest in App Store distribution and the users of my apps trust me such that they do not need my apps to be "approved" by Apple. What's more important to them is how quickly I can release new apps and new versions of existing apps. > > Up to and including macOS Mojave my users can run my apps with the minor inconvenience of having to right-click an app and approve its use, just once. With macOS Catalina, if I understand things, it's not so simple, instead these are the options: > > 1. Code-sign and notarise my apps ? I'm not interested in this for my kind of apps which are essentially in-house/at home developments. > > 2. Using an active Internet connection, go through the right-click technique as now not just once, but EVERY time the app is opened. > > In the past the 'Security & Privacy' General tab had a 3rd option for the setting 'Allow apps downloaded from:' which allowed you to install and use apps from any source. It seems that this is not possible with Catalina. > > So with Catalina my users will need an Internet connection and will have to go through the right-click authorisation process every time they open one of my apps. > > More seriously, it is becoming increasingly difficult to recommend the combination of the Mac plus LiveCode for app development. Up to now I've done all my app development on Mac+LC, even where the target platform is Windows or Android or Linux ? I find it's simply faster, less error-prone and more pleasant with the Mac. However, from Catalina onwards even simple little utility apps, created for short-term use, will be tedious when opening or you have to learn about the complexity of code-signing and notarising and accept slower development cycles due to the need for Apple's approval! > > This is quite depressing, especially since I abandoned iOS development due to Apple's distribution restrictions. > > Back when the iPad 2 had just been released I developed for one of my customers an app to support health & safety audits for a national UK retail chain. The app took me 15 days to develop in total. As a result of being able to field a team of 10-20 staff with iPads running my app, my customer was able to carry out 350 half-day H&S audits for 3 years. However I was unable to roll-out this app to other customers as the ad hoc distribution method I was using was limited to 100 iPads per year and the App Store was not appropriate for this type of app. > > As a result of the limitations Apple impose on tablet app distribution, recently I developed a speech-aid app just for small Android tablets and larger phones. I have not made an iOS app. This app is low volume (in terms of number of users) and requires significant personalising in order to be effective for its users (typically they are stroke victims). I chose to deliver the app on Android because of the facility to use developer mode and because of price ? Android 7in tablet plus minimal add-ons: ?80, Apple iPad plus add-ons: ?320. Some of my users of this app already have an iPad but they are having to buy a cheap Android tablet. Like the Mac and Catalina, the iPad and iOS is driving away potential app developers due to Apple's rigid control of the delivery mechanisms. > > Maybe I'm wrong, Catalina will be OK ? if I am wrong, please correct me! > > Regards > > Peter > -- > Peter Reid > Loughborough, UK > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jjs at krutt.org Sat Sep 7 07:53:49 2019 From: jjs at krutt.org (JJS) Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2019 13:53:49 +0200 Subject: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development? In-Reply-To: <77348e97-2072-7758-3b13-c00793599142@krutt.org> References: <178E6E41-1FC3-4584-9437-C2DE04AD5BEC@reidit.co.uk> <77348e97-2072-7758-3b13-c00793599142@krutt.org> Message-ID: I forgot, it was Mattias Rebbe who wrote the notarizing app which you can you fro free, aint that great! He also made an excellent lesson which is on lessons.livecode.com Op 7-9-2019 om 13:36 schreef JJS via use-livecode: > Well said. > > There is help on this. > > On of the list members will jump in i guess and he made an excellent > tool which will help you out notarizing and all other stuff Apple > tries to kill you with. > > If you already have a Apple dev account (only 100$ per year) which > gives you the ability to help 100 people(am i correct?) (thought there > was an option for 1000??) then this tool will help you do these things > and you can go on with coding as before. > > I also put stuff on Google Play which is not intended for everybody, > but i use a password combination, just like banks do with their apps. > Their apps are also not for everyone, but only they who have an account. > > You could do that too, so only people with access credentials can > access the app. > > Indeed you gave a few reasons why i choose not to develop for Apple, > unless i can make enough money with it which compensates for it. > > > Jerry(Sphere) > > Op 7-9-2019 om 13:18 schreef Peter Reid via use-livecode: >> I've been using LiveCode as my development platform since 1999. >> Practically all the apps I've developed have been for in-house use by >> my family, friends and customers - all very low numbers of copies >> distributed in an informal manner. I've no interest in App Store >> distribution and the users of my apps trust me such that they do not >> need my apps to be "approved" by Apple. What's more important to them >> is how quickly I can release new apps and new versions of existing apps. >> >> Up to and including macOS Mojave my users can run my apps with the >> minor inconvenience of having to right-click an app and approve its >> use, just once. With macOS Catalina, if I understand things, it's not >> so simple, instead these are the options: >> >> 1. Code-sign and notarise my apps ? I'm not interested in this for my >> kind of apps which are essentially in-house/at home developments. >> >> 2. Using an active Internet connection, go through the right-click >> technique as now not just once, but EVERY time the app is opened. >> >> In the past the 'Security & Privacy' General tab had a 3rd option for >> the setting 'Allow apps downloaded from:' which allowed you to >> install and use apps from any source. It seems that this is not >> possible with Catalina. >> >> So with Catalina my users will need an Internet connection and will >> have to go through the right-click authorisation process every time >> they open one of my apps. >> >> More seriously, it is becoming increasingly difficult to recommend >> the combination of the Mac plus LiveCode for app development. Up to >> now I've done all my app development on Mac+LC, even where the target >> platform is Windows or Android or Linux ? I find it's simply faster, >> less error-prone and more pleasant with the Mac. However, from >> Catalina onwards even simple little utility apps, created for >> short-term use, will be tedious when opening or you have to learn >> about the complexity of code-signing and notarising and accept slower >> development cycles due to the need for Apple's approval! >> >> This is quite depressing, especially since I abandoned iOS >> development due to Apple's distribution restrictions. >> >> Back when the iPad 2 had just been released I developed for one of my >> customers an app to support health & safety audits for a national UK >> retail chain. The app took me 15 days to develop in total. As a >> result of being able to field a team of 10-20 staff with iPads >> running my app, my customer was able to carry out 350 half-day H&S >> audits for 3 years. However I was unable to roll-out this app to >> other customers as the ad hoc distribution method I was using was >> limited to 100 iPads per year and the App Store was not appropriate >> for this type of app. >> >> As a result of the limitations Apple impose on tablet app >> distribution, recently I developed a speech-aid app just for small >> Android tablets and larger phones. I have not made an iOS app. This >> app is low volume (in terms of number of users) and requires >> significant personalising in order to be effective for its users >> (typically they are stroke victims). I chose to deliver the app on >> Android because of the facility to use developer mode and because of >> price ? Android 7in tablet plus minimal add-ons: ?80, Apple iPad plus >> add-ons: ?320. Some of my users of this app already have an iPad but >> they are having to buy a cheap Android tablet. Like the Mac and >> Catalina, the iPad and iOS is driving away potential app developers >> due to Apple's rigid control of the delivery mechanisms. >> >> Maybe I'm wrong, Catalina will be OK ? if I am wrong, please correct me! >> >> Regards >> >> Peter >> -- >> Peter Reid >> Loughborough, UK >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jjs at krutt.org Sat Sep 7 07:55:39 2019 From: jjs at krutt.org (JJS) Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2019 13:55:39 +0200 Subject: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development? In-Reply-To: References: <178E6E41-1FC3-4584-9437-C2DE04AD5BEC@reidit.co.uk> <77348e97-2072-7758-3b13-c00793599142@krutt.org> Message-ID: <093549b1-4939-d354-003c-c7b8b57c7d8a@krutt.org> use for free (should it be written) Op 7-9-2019 om 13:53 schreef JJS via use-livecode: > I forgot, it was Mattias Rebbe who wrote the notarizing app which you > can you fro free, aint that great! > > He also made an excellent lesson which is on lessons.livecode.com > > > Op 7-9-2019 om 13:36 schreef JJS via use-livecode: >> Well said. >> >> There is help on this. >> >> On of the list members will jump in i guess and he made an excellent >> tool which will help you out notarizing and all other stuff Apple >> tries to kill you with. >> >> If you already have a Apple dev account (only 100$ per year) which >> gives you the ability to help 100 people(am i correct?) (thought >> there was an option for 1000??) then this tool will help you do these >> things and you can go on with coding as before. >> >> I also put stuff on Google Play which is not intended for everybody, >> but i use a password combination, just like banks do with their apps. >> Their apps are also not for everyone, but only they who have an account. >> >> You could do that too, so only people with access credentials can >> access the app. >> >> Indeed you gave a few reasons why i choose not to develop for Apple, >> unless i can make enough money with it which compensates for it. >> >> >> Jerry(Sphere) >> >> Op 7-9-2019 om 13:18 schreef Peter Reid via use-livecode: >>> I've been using LiveCode as my development platform since 1999. >>> Practically all the apps I've developed have been for in-house use >>> by my family, friends and customers - all very low numbers of copies >>> distributed in an informal manner. I've no interest in App Store >>> distribution and the users of my apps trust me such that they do not >>> need my apps to be "approved" by Apple. What's more important to >>> them is how quickly I can release new apps and new versions of >>> existing apps. >>> >>> Up to and including macOS Mojave my users can run my apps with the >>> minor inconvenience of having to right-click an app and approve its >>> use, just once. With macOS Catalina, if I understand things, it's >>> not so simple, instead these are the options: >>> >>> 1. Code-sign and notarise my apps ? I'm not interested in this for >>> my kind of apps which are essentially in-house/at home developments. >>> >>> 2. Using an active Internet connection, go through the right-click >>> technique as now not just once, but EVERY time the app is opened. >>> >>> In the past the 'Security & Privacy' General tab had a 3rd option >>> for the setting 'Allow apps downloaded from:' which allowed you to >>> install and use apps from any source. It seems that this is not >>> possible with Catalina. >>> >>> So with Catalina my users will need an Internet connection and will >>> have to go through the right-click authorisation process every time >>> they open one of my apps. >>> >>> More seriously, it is becoming increasingly difficult to recommend >>> the combination of the Mac plus LiveCode for app development. Up to >>> now I've done all my app development on Mac+LC, even where the >>> target platform is Windows or Android or Linux ? I find it's simply >>> faster, less error-prone and more pleasant with the Mac. However, >>> from Catalina onwards even simple little utility apps, created for >>> short-term use, will be tedious when opening or you have to learn >>> about the complexity of code-signing and notarising and accept >>> slower development cycles due to the need for Apple's approval! >>> >>> This is quite depressing, especially since I abandoned iOS >>> development due to Apple's distribution restrictions. >>> >>> Back when the iPad 2 had just been released I developed for one of >>> my customers an app to support health & safety audits for a national >>> UK retail chain. The app took me 15 days to develop in total. As a >>> result of being able to field a team of 10-20 staff with iPads >>> running my app, my customer was able to carry out 350 half-day H&S >>> audits for 3 years. However I was unable to roll-out this app to >>> other customers as the ad hoc distribution method I was using was >>> limited to 100 iPads per year and the App Store was not appropriate >>> for this type of app. >>> >>> As a result of the limitations Apple impose on tablet app >>> distribution, recently I developed a speech-aid app just for small >>> Android tablets and larger phones. I have not made an iOS app. This >>> app is low volume (in terms of number of users) and requires >>> significant personalising in order to be effective for its users >>> (typically they are stroke victims). I chose to deliver the app on >>> Android because of the facility to use developer mode and because of >>> price ? Android 7in tablet plus minimal add-ons: ?80, Apple iPad >>> plus add-ons: ?320. Some of my users of this app already have an >>> iPad but they are having to buy a cheap Android tablet. Like the Mac >>> and Catalina, the iPad and iOS is driving away potential app >>> developers due to Apple's rigid control of the delivery mechanisms. >>> >>> Maybe I'm wrong, Catalina will be OK ? if I am wrong, please correct >>> me! >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> Peter >>> -- >>> Peter Reid >>> Loughborough, UK >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From harrison at all-auctions.com Sat Sep 7 09:38:09 2019 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison) Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2019 09:38:09 -0400 Subject: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development? In-Reply-To: <178E6E41-1FC3-4584-9437-C2DE04AD5BEC@reidit.co.uk> References: <178E6E41-1FC3-4584-9437-C2DE04AD5BEC@reidit.co.uk> Message-ID: Hi Peter, We are all pretty miffed about the overly restrictive nature of developing native apps. These is a lot of time wasted on the ever changing hoops one must jump through just to develop in-house or small audience apps. Not only is it pushing away developers from developing for specific device platforms, it is pushing us all to only write for the web. At least that always works, although it not as fast as we would like it to be. Send your frustrations to Apple. We can only hope they will listen and change. They did a survey of their developers a couple of months ago, and they allowed us to add comments. I found myself writing quite the rant to them about everything they need to change! We share your pain. Please know you are in good company. Cheers, Rick From colinholgate at gmail.com Sat Sep 7 09:38:26 2019 From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate) Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2019 07:38:26 -0600 Subject: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development? In-Reply-To: <093549b1-4939-d354-003c-c7b8b57c7d8a@krutt.org> References: <178E6E41-1FC3-4584-9437-C2DE04AD5BEC@reidit.co.uk> <77348e97-2072-7758-3b13-c00793599142@krutt.org> <093549b1-4939-d354-003c-c7b8b57c7d8a@krutt.org> Message-ID: <35E14E04-4BD5-4073-B02E-51DC7F4DAC01@gmail.com> One part you say seems incorrect. I?ve been running Catalina full time since the first developer build, and I?ve seen various combinations of problems. For the one you?re talking about, where right-click Open still doesn?t open the app, in the security control panel where it used to say open applications from anywhere, it now should show a message asking for permission to open the specific application that you just attempted to open. From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat Sep 7 11:27:10 2019 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 07 Sep 2019 10:27:10 -0500 Subject: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development? In-Reply-To: References: <178E6E41-1FC3-4584-9437-C2DE04AD5BEC@reidit.co.uk> <77348e97-2072-7758-3b13-c00793599142@krutt.org> Message-ID: <16d0c543808.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> I can't recommend Matthias' tool enough, it can do all Apple requires with a click. Notarization does not go through Apple's approval process, no human ever sees it, it's entirely automated. It simply adds a token that proves you are a verified developer in good standing. Once that token is "stapled" to your app, Gatekeeper won't object when the app is opened. If you choose not to embed the token then users do need an internet connection so that Apple's servers can verify the token. Matthias' Notarization Helper does both notarization and stapling. However, notarization only applies to Mac apps. There are no distribution limits for those. It does not apply to iOS apps, which I believe hasn't changed. You can still use ad hoc distribution for iOS apps as before, up to 100 devices. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On September 7, 2019 6:55:45 AM JJS via use-livecode wrote: > I forgot, it was Mattias Rebbe who wrote the notarizing app which you > can you fro free, aint that great! > > He also made an excellent lesson which is on lessons.livecode.com > > > Op 7-9-2019 om 13:36 schreef JJS via use-livecode: >> Well said. >> >> There is help on this. >> >> On of the list members will jump in i guess and he made an excellent >> tool which will help you out notarizing and all other stuff Apple >> tries to kill you with. >> >> If you already have a Apple dev account (only 100$ per year) which >> gives you the ability to help 100 people(am i correct?) (thought there >> was an option for 1000??) then this tool will help you do these things >> and you can go on with coding as before. >> >> I also put stuff on Google Play which is not intended for everybody, >> but i use a password combination, just like banks do with their apps. >> Their apps are also not for everyone, but only they who have an account. >> >> You could do that too, so only people with access credentials can >> access the app. >> >> Indeed you gave a few reasons why i choose not to develop for Apple, >> unless i can make enough money with it which compensates for it. >> >> >> Jerry(Sphere) >> >> Op 7-9-2019 om 13:18 schreef Peter Reid via use-livecode: >>> I've been using LiveCode as my development platform since 1999. >>> Practically all the apps I've developed have been for in-house use by >>> my family, friends and customers - all very low numbers of copies >>> distributed in an informal manner. I've no interest in App Store >>> distribution and the users of my apps trust me such that they do not >>> need my apps to be "approved" by Apple. What's more important to them >>> is how quickly I can release new apps and new versions of existing apps. >>> >>> Up to and including macOS Mojave my users can run my apps with the >>> minor inconvenience of having to right-click an app and approve its >>> use, just once. With macOS Catalina, if I understand things, it's not >>> so simple, instead these are the options: >>> >>> 1. Code-sign and notarise my apps ? I'm not interested in this for my >>> kind of apps which are essentially in-house/at home developments. >>> >>> 2. Using an active Internet connection, go through the right-click >>> technique as now not just once, but EVERY time the app is opened. >>> >>> In the past the 'Security & Privacy' General tab had a 3rd option for >>> the setting 'Allow apps downloaded from:' which allowed you to >>> install and use apps from any source. It seems that this is not >>> possible with Catalina. >>> >>> So with Catalina my users will need an Internet connection and will >>> have to go through the right-click authorisation process every time >>> they open one of my apps. >>> >>> More seriously, it is becoming increasingly difficult to recommend >>> the combination of the Mac plus LiveCode for app development. Up to >>> now I've done all my app development on Mac+LC, even where the target >>> platform is Windows or Android or Linux ? I find it's simply faster, >>> less error-prone and more pleasant with the Mac. However, from >>> Catalina onwards even simple little utility apps, created for >>> short-term use, will be tedious when opening or you have to learn >>> about the complexity of code-signing and notarising and accept slower >>> development cycles due to the need for Apple's approval! >>> >>> This is quite depressing, especially since I abandoned iOS >>> development due to Apple's distribution restrictions. >>> >>> Back when the iPad 2 had just been released I developed for one of my >>> customers an app to support health & safety audits for a national UK >>> retail chain. The app took me 15 days to develop in total. As a >>> result of being able to field a team of 10-20 staff with iPads >>> running my app, my customer was able to carry out 350 half-day H&S >>> audits for 3 years. However I was unable to roll-out this app to >>> other customers as the ad hoc distribution method I was using was >>> limited to 100 iPads per year and the App Store was not appropriate >>> for this type of app. >>> >>> As a result of the limitations Apple impose on tablet app >>> distribution, recently I developed a speech-aid app just for small >>> Android tablets and larger phones. I have not made an iOS app. This >>> app is low volume (in terms of number of users) and requires >>> significant personalising in order to be effective for its users >>> (typically they are stroke victims). I chose to deliver the app on >>> Android because of the facility to use developer mode and because of >>> price ? Android 7in tablet plus minimal add-ons: ?80, Apple iPad plus >>> add-ons: ?320. Some of my users of this app already have an iPad but >>> they are having to buy a cheap Android tablet. Like the Mac and >>> Catalina, the iPad and iOS is driving away potential app developers >>> due to Apple's rigid control of the delivery mechanisms. >>> >>> Maybe I'm wrong, Catalina will be OK ? if I am wrong, please correct me! >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> Peter >>> -- >>> Peter Reid >>> Loughborough, UK >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From brian at milby7.com Sat Sep 7 12:35:16 2019 From: brian at milby7.com (Brian Milby) Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2019 12:35:16 -0400 Subject: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development? In-Reply-To: <178E6E41-1FC3-4584-9437-C2DE04AD5BEC@reidit.co.uk> References: <178E6E41-1FC3-4584-9437-C2DE04AD5BEC@reidit.co.uk> Message-ID: <6c9d2862-384b-4c70-9c24-c8c9a11078b1@Spark> I will add that this situation is not unique to LC, it will apply to any environment that creates a compiled app. ?I still think that LC will be an optimal choice given the ease of development - especially with the way Mac apps are packaged (everything can be inside the .app folder). Thanks, Brian > From ahsoftware at sonic.net Sat Sep 7 12:43:06 2019 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2019 09:43:06 -0700 Subject: Hactoberfest is coming... In-Reply-To: References: <3e3a2f1b-4f8e-4504-bf29-300450a21776@Spark> <7FBFF079-26F6-4469-810D-301DAEA300D8@pidigital.co.uk> Message-ID: Just want to point out a good candidate for pull requests here. Ripe for some sample xtalk code: https://github.com/EricAlcaide/Rosetta_Project -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From scott at elementarysoftware.com Sat Sep 7 16:02:26 2019 From: scott at elementarysoftware.com (scott at elementarysoftware.com) Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2019 13:02:26 -0700 Subject: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development? In-Reply-To: <16d0c543808.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <178E6E41-1FC3-4584-9437-C2DE04AD5BEC@reidit.co.uk> <77348e97-2072-7758-3b13-c00793599142@krutt.org> <16d0c543808.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <17BE7E1D-CF4C-4EDB-9BC2-ED767301F166@elementarysoftware.com> I just wanted to chime in on singing the praises for Matthias? tool as well. It has made code-signing and notarizing Mac applications so easy and fast for me. And it has a feature that allows it to work with the third party tool DropDMG (which I already used)? so even more amazing! A huge gift to anyone using LC for Mac development. (He has some other free tools which are also excellent.) -- Scott Morrow Elementary Software (Now with 20% less chalk dust!) web https://elementarysoftware.com/ email scott at elementarysoftware.com booth 1-800-615-0867 ------------------------------------------------------ > On Sep 7, 2019, at 8:27 AM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > > I can't recommend Matthias' tool enough, it can do all Apple requires with a click. > > Notarization does not go through Apple's approval process, no human ever sees it, it's entirely automated. It simply adds a token that proves you are a verified developer in good standing. Once that token is "stapled" to your app, Gatekeeper won't object when the app is opened. If you choose not to embed the token then users do need an internet connection so that Apple's servers can verify the token. Matthias' Notarization Helper does both notarization and stapling. > > However, notarization only applies to Mac apps. There are no distribution limits for those. It does not apply to iOS apps, which I believe hasn't changed. You can still use ad hoc distribution for iOS apps as before, up to 100 devices. > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > On September 7, 2019 6:55:45 AM JJS via use-livecode wrote: > >> I forgot, it was Mattias Rebbe who wrote the notarizing app which you >> can you fro free, aint that great! >> >> He also made an excellent lesson which is on lessons.livecode.com >> >> >> Op 7-9-2019 om 13:36 schreef JJS via use-livecode: >>> Well said. >>> >>> There is help on this. >>> >>> On of the list members will jump in i guess and he made an excellent >>> tool which will help you out notarizing and all other stuff Apple >>> tries to kill you with. >>> >>> If you already have a Apple dev account (only 100$ per year) which >>> gives you the ability to help 100 people(am i correct?) (thought there >>> was an option for 1000??) then this tool will help you do these things >>> and you can go on with coding as before. >>> >>> I also put stuff on Google Play which is not intended for everybody, >>> but i use a password combination, just like banks do with their apps. >>> Their apps are also not for everyone, but only they who have an account. >>> >>> You could do that too, so only people with access credentials can >>> access the app. >>> >>> Indeed you gave a few reasons why i choose not to develop for Apple, >>> unless i can make enough money with it which compensates for it. >>> >>> >>> Jerry(Sphere) >>> >>> Op 7-9-2019 om 13:18 schreef Peter Reid via use-livecode: >>>> I've been using LiveCode as my development platform since 1999. >>>> Practically all the apps I've developed have been for in-house use by >>>> my family, friends and customers - all very low numbers of copies >>>> distributed in an informal manner. I've no interest in App Store >>>> distribution and the users of my apps trust me such that they do not >>>> need my apps to be "approved" by Apple. What's more important to them >>>> is how quickly I can release new apps and new versions of existing apps. >>>> >>>> Up to and including macOS Mojave my users can run my apps with the >>>> minor inconvenience of having to right-click an app and approve its >>>> use, just once. With macOS Catalina, if I understand things, it's not >>>> so simple, instead these are the options: >>>> >>>> 1. Code-sign and notarise my apps ? I'm not interested in this for my >>>> kind of apps which are essentially in-house/at home developments. >>>> >>>> 2. Using an active Internet connection, go through the right-click >>>> technique as now not just once, but EVERY time the app is opened. >>>> >>>> In the past the 'Security & Privacy' General tab had a 3rd option for >>>> the setting 'Allow apps downloaded from:' which allowed you to >>>> install and use apps from any source. It seems that this is not >>>> possible with Catalina. >>>> >>>> So with Catalina my users will need an Internet connection and will >>>> have to go through the right-click authorisation process every time >>>> they open one of my apps. >>>> >>>> More seriously, it is becoming increasingly difficult to recommend >>>> the combination of the Mac plus LiveCode for app development. Up to >>>> now I've done all my app development on Mac+LC, even where the target >>>> platform is Windows or Android or Linux ? I find it's simply faster, >>>> less error-prone and more pleasant with the Mac. However, from >>>> Catalina onwards even simple little utility apps, created for >>>> short-term use, will be tedious when opening or you have to learn >>>> about the complexity of code-signing and notarising and accept slower >>>> development cycles due to the need for Apple's approval! >>>> >>>> This is quite depressing, especially since I abandoned iOS >>>> development due to Apple's distribution restrictions. >>>> >>>> Back when the iPad 2 had just been released I developed for one of my >>>> customers an app to support health & safety audits for a national UK >>>> retail chain. The app took me 15 days to develop in total. As a >>>> result of being able to field a team of 10-20 staff with iPads >>>> running my app, my customer was able to carry out 350 half-day H&S >>>> audits for 3 years. However I was unable to roll-out this app to >>>> other customers as the ad hoc distribution method I was using was >>>> limited to 100 iPads per year and the App Store was not appropriate >>>> for this type of app. >>>> >>>> As a result of the limitations Apple impose on tablet app >>>> distribution, recently I developed a speech-aid app just for small >>>> Android tablets and larger phones. I have not made an iOS app. This >>>> app is low volume (in terms of number of users) and requires >>>> significant personalising in order to be effective for its users >>>> (typically they are stroke victims). I chose to deliver the app on >>>> Android because of the facility to use developer mode and because of >>>> price ? Android 7in tablet plus minimal add-ons: ?80, Apple iPad plus >>>> add-ons: ?320. Some of my users of this app already have an iPad but >>>> they are having to buy a cheap Android tablet. Like the Mac and >>>> Catalina, the iPad and iOS is driving away potential app developers >>>> due to Apple's rigid control of the delivery mechanisms. >>>> >>>> Maybe I'm wrong, Catalina will be OK ? if I am wrong, please correct me! >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> >>>> Peter >>>> -- >>>> Peter Reid >>>> Loughborough, UK >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dochawk at gmail.com Sat Sep 7 17:07:32 2019 From: dochawk at gmail.com (doc hawk) Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2019 14:07:32 -0700 Subject: high resolution when printing to pdf, either from images or pdf widgets In-Reply-To: <15502b9068566bc3cd3a9167d2ea54ac@livecode.com> References: <01872BE5-DC40-4E3B-9392-77A3929C0694@gmail.com> <06CD497D-1231-427F-9D68-D5CFD11FA0B9@gmail.com> <15502b9068566bc3cd3a9167d2ea54ac@livecode.com> Message-ID: <44E2116D-B263-4B61-B414-54E1003FDF4D@gmail.com> On Sep 7, 2019, at 4:29 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: > > On 2019-09-06 21:10, Dr. Hawkins via use-livecode wrote: >> On Aug 28, 2019, at 12:07 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode >> wrote: >>> On 2019-08-27 17:24, Dr. Hawkins via use-livecode wrote: >>> I'm not entirely clear what Monte meant by 'print to pdf directly' in one >>> of those comments... The 'print to pdf' mechanism in the engine isn't >>> really any different from the normal printing mechanism, its just that >>> rather than funnel the sequence of paths, images, text being rendered >>> through the system printer it funnels it through libcairo's (https://cairographics.org/) >>> PDF output functionality. >> Can this be adjusted for higher resolution? >> *is* there a way to send out at full resolution? > > I'm not sure I entirely follow - PDF is primarily a vector format so there is > 'resolution' as such. In regards to images then the engine/pdfprinter tries > to preserve the original image when printing - so if you print a large JPEG > scaled down to 100x100, the original JPEG will be passed into the PDF and then > that will be scaled down when rendered (i.e. as much information in the original > is preserved in the output). ' Currently, the pdf gets 72?d when the engine renders. Could it simply be adjusted for, say, 300 dpi resolution on output? > >> I don?t need it to be the original, but rather visually indistinguishable. > > Then that changes things slightly - particularly if your originals are scans > which contain images rather than vectors... In this case, the render the PDF > at a larger size and scale down approach should be able to give you want you > want. My originals are almost if not entirely text, lines, and boxes. > >> As I think about it, I don?t think I?ve ever said *anything* nice >> about pdf. I?ve generally called it a bastardization >> of postscript, but in this case, ?castration? might be a better word . >> . . (but then, when talking about cars, >> I refer to the period from the early 70s to the mid 90s as ?the Great >> Emasculation? . . .) > > Heh - the main thing to remember about PDF is that it is designed to be a > description of what a postscript interpreter would output before things > get rasterized. The idea is that it is a flat sequence of things to render > and thus doesn't require the 'overhead' of a full programming language VM > to do so. Of course, whilst it is that, it has also become a rather complicated > on-disk data structure. That?s not making me dislike it less :) >> My first attempt seemed to work, save for an approximately 25% size >> reduction I can?t explain. more below . . . >> I get a graphic of the same size as the pdf started, but the image is >> about 3/4 the original >> size. The rest is transparent area. >> My screen density is 108.79, but livecode doesn?t know that at the >> user code level, does it? >> However, that reduction *is* similar to 72/108.79 . . > > Physical screen density is irrelevant here - the engine uses a fixed > notion of 72dpi... The 3/4 reduction suggests something PDF side is actually > using 96dpi (72/96 = 3/4)... Perhaps Monte could chime in and comment? > > It might be you just have to adjust the zoom factor to scale up the PDF > slightly more so it fills the rect you want. I?m thinking that a variable density would be derivable here. Just increasing the zoom seem likely to do it, though: I start with a 612 wide pdf widget (8.5?), zoom it 400%, and get a graphic 4x612 wide. However, only the left and top 3/4 or so of the graphic is used, With the rest being blank. The right and bottom are transparent. On top of that, when I change the width back to 612, the resolution is apparently downscaled with it. From sean at pidigital.co.uk Sat Sep 7 17:52:04 2019 From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Pi Digital) Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2019 22:52:04 +0100 Subject: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development? In-Reply-To: <17BE7E1D-CF4C-4EDB-9BC2-ED767301F166@elementarysoftware.com> References: <178E6E41-1FC3-4584-9437-C2DE04AD5BEC@reidit.co.uk> <77348e97-2072-7758-3b13-c00793599142@krutt.org> <16d0c543808.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <17BE7E1D-CF4C-4EDB-9BC2-ED767301F166@elementarysoftware.com> Message-ID: <9F270613-1A6F-4293-BA52-D20D8D3B8E9C@pidigital.co.uk> I have an idea on how to get a single ?Capsule? app notorized that can open and run any stack file as a standalone. It does mean that the stack won?t be compiled quite like a true standalone but does allow users to open any stack on their desktops. Perhaps there?s a way we could even get it to run other non-notorized compiled apps within it. It?s only a fledgling idea so if anyone else can pip me to the post you?re more than welcome to. Sean Cole Pi Digital Prod Ltd From paul at researchware.com Sat Sep 7 18:58:41 2019 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2019 18:58:41 -0400 Subject: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development? In-Reply-To: <178E6E41-1FC3-4584-9437-C2DE04AD5BEC@reidit.co.uk> References: <178E6E41-1FC3-4584-9437-C2DE04AD5BEC@reidit.co.uk> Message-ID: <03e9d19f-5183-950a-6dd2-a3a1b0b75a12@researchware.com> Everyone is signing the praises of tools to jump through Apple's hoops, but I see no one refuting Peter's original claims that Catalina is a ste towards the end of ad-hoc and in-house development for the Apple platform and I would agree. Apple's goal for OSX is to get to the same place as iOS, where all OSX apps go through the Apple store operation for a 30% cut. Eventually, you will not be able to distribute an OSX application yourself directly to a friend who runs OSX. It will go through Apple and, yes, it may be a "free" app, but the endlessly changing hurtles that are discussed frequency on this list for iOS will become the same for OSX and that overhead will kill off a certain number of developers who just do not have the time or patience or money to jump through those hoops. And because - those sort of small ad-hoc or in-house developers - will never contribute significantly to Apple's bottom line, Apple really doesn't care one bit about them. My 2 cents from having been close to Apple since the Lisa was released. From sundown at pacifier.com Sat Sep 7 20:33:24 2019 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2019 17:33:24 -0700 Subject: OSX File Extension Message-ID: <39422827-05E3-4278-BDAA-0C1DC501681F@pacifier.com> Years ago you could create a file type or extension like jpeg, zip, pict etc. and then you would need to register that extension with Apple. If I create a new file extension do I need to register that extension with Apple or just start using it. The reason I am asking is I am creating a new form of compression for files and similar to zip files I want my own extension after the file name. The compression is not zip or any other and no other program will be able to expand it. JB From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sun Sep 8 01:39:37 2019 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sat, 07 Sep 2019 22:39:37 -0700 Subject: OSX File Extension Message-ID: Apple no longer maintains a file type code registry.Richard GaskinFourth World Systems From sundown at pacifier.com Sun Sep 8 01:44:48 2019 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2019 22:44:48 -0700 Subject: OSX File Extension In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <15A9EAD5-E7AD-47D4-96BE-19F61346DBD7@pacifier.com> Thanks for the info! I guess I will just start using what I want and see if it catches on. JB > On Sep 7, 2019, at 10:39 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > Apple no longer maintains a file type code registry.Richard GaskinFourth World Systems > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From kee.nethery at elloco.com Sun Sep 8 01:48:34 2019 From: kee.nethery at elloco.com (Kee Nethery) Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2019 22:48:34 -0700 Subject: OSX File Extension In-Reply-To: <15A9EAD5-E7AD-47D4-96BE-19F61346DBD7@pacifier.com> References: <15A9EAD5-E7AD-47D4-96BE-19F61346DBD7@pacifier.com> Message-ID: <2DE52FE8-3A79-4619-BB37-E5FC495D59D0@elloco.com> I seem to recall a Wikipedia article that lists all of the file extensions not file types but file extensions. You might want to look to see if yours is already in use. Kee Nethery > On Sep 7, 2019, at 10:44 PM, JB via use-livecode wrote: > > Thanks for the info! I guess I will just start > using what I want and see if it catches on. > > JB > >> On Sep 7, 2019, at 10:39 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Apple no longer maintains a file type code registry.Richard GaskinFourth World Systems >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sun Sep 8 02:55:52 2019 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sat, 07 Sep 2019 23:55:52 -0700 Subject: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development? Message-ID: <6hfgjospgpiebrerd764ab4g.1567925752247@email.lge.com> Paul Dupuis wrote:>?I see no one refuting Peter's original?> claims that Catalina is a ste towards?> the end of ad-hoc and in-house?> development for the Apple platform?> and I would agree.Me too, FWIW, but I don't think the problem is Apple.What really changed since the olden days is that the Internet has become both ubiquitous and hostile.The restrictions we face with or in-house apps apply to all apps, and in increasingly hostile environment we want those in place.How can the OS know your app is truly yours and not from someone else masquerading as you? Signing does that.Apple makes consumer electronics, and everything?they make is designed to connect to the Internet.The connected world has become a dangerous place.Primarily a consumer platform, we should expect consumer-level protections.If you want a developer platform use Linux. ;)Richard GaskinFourth World Systems From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sun Sep 8 04:18:17 2019 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2019 11:18:17 +0300 Subject: OSX File Extension In-Reply-To: <2DE52FE8-3A79-4619-BB37-E5FC495D59D0@elloco.com> References: <15A9EAD5-E7AD-47D4-96BE-19F61346DBD7@pacifier.com> <2DE52FE8-3A79-4619-BB37-E5FC495D59D0@elloco.com> Message-ID: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_filename_extensions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_file_formats On 8.09.19 8:48, Kee Nethery via use-livecode wrote: > I seem to recall a Wikipedia article that lists all of the file extensions not file types but file extensions. You might want to look to see if yours is already in use. > > Kee Nethery > >> On Sep 7, 2019, at 10:44 PM, JB via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Thanks for the info! I guess I will just start >> using what I want and see if it catches on. >> >> JB >> >>> On Sep 7, 2019, at 10:39 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> Apple no longer maintains a file type code registry.Richard GaskinFourth World Systems >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From harrison at all-auctions.com Sun Sep 8 10:10:43 2019 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison) Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2019 10:10:43 -0400 Subject: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development? In-Reply-To: <6hfgjospgpiebrerd764ab4g.1567925752247@email.lge.com> References: <6hfgjospgpiebrerd764ab4g.1567925752247@email.lge.com> Message-ID: <491A72F1-84B2-4D3B-9171-7987C1283238@all-auctions.com> That may be exactly what happens next if the big guys continue with their nonsense. More developers will rebel and leave their platforms altogether in favor of Linux. Just my 2 cents. :-) Rick > On Sep 8, 2019, at 2:55 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > If you want a developer platform use Linux From gcanyon at gmail.com Sun Sep 8 10:26:14 2019 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2019 21:26:14 +0700 Subject: 9.5 on Windows seems terribly unable to deal with fields full of text? Message-ID: <5686A97E-5836-4A61-9528-30C9E288C661@gmail.com> The ide seems slow in general, but put the contents of a 1 mb 80k line file, and the message box disables the IDE, with multi-second delays. Examine that value as a variable, and similarly but to a lesser extent things slow down. I remember having no trouble doing things like this in 8, maybe even 9 on my 6-year-old MacBook, which is in the shop getting a new battery. Anyone else? Any suggestions? From gcanyon at gmail.com Sun Sep 8 10:29:20 2019 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2019 21:29:20 +0700 Subject: 9.5 on Windows seems terribly unable to deal with fields full of text? In-Reply-To: <5686A97E-5836-4A61-9528-30C9E288C661@gmail.com> References: <5686A97E-5836-4A61-9528-30C9E288C661@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3A7E352E-935F-4580-BFC2-1CC19AF6078D@gmail.com> Just running a script with large variables, no viewers open, and setting a breakpoint took 20 seconds. From prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org Sun Sep 8 10:37:55 2019 From: prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org (prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org) Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2019 07:37:55 -0700 Subject: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development? In-Reply-To: <491A72F1-84B2-4D3B-9171-7987C1283238@all-auctions.com> References: <6hfgjospgpiebrerd764ab4g.1567925752247@email.lge.com> <491A72F1-84B2-4D3B-9171-7987C1283238@all-auctions.com> Message-ID: <9D8CCB4A-D788-4126-890D-65D58AEB377A@earthlearningsolutions.org> Folks, With respect, I agree with Paul?s comments. We live in an online environment where we are faced, on a daily basis, with criminal activity. The worst of it can cost us financially, but even major players like Amazon record our behaviors and choices, for their profit, with disclosure statements too long, so most folks don?t read them. I get several phone calls every day from folks from ?who knows where?? trying to get my personal info so they can access my bank account. It is sad, I agree, that it is more difficult to make an app that we want to send to our friends, because of Apple?s security requirements. But, suppose someone distributes an app to your friends with malware and claims to be you? When there is so much info about each of us available already, spoofing as anybody else isn?t so hard. Clicking on nefarious links is common and the innocent staff of public agencies have inadvertently let ransomware into their workplace, costing big for their employer. I get frustrated too, about the ever changing Apple requirements that make it harder for me to share my apps. Mathew?s signing app is a wonderful contribution that will make it much easier. So, my mindset now is that we live in a swamp full of alligators and that protective clothing, while hot and uncomfortable, keeps me and my friends safe(er). Have fun, Bill William Prothero http://es.earthednet.org > On Sep 8, 2019, at 7:10 AM, Rick Harrison via use-livecode wrote: > > That may be exactly what happens next if the big guys continue with their nonsense. > More developers will rebel and leave their platforms altogether in favor of Linux. > > Just my 2 cents. :-) > > Rick > >> On Sep 8, 2019, at 2:55 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: >> >> If you want a developer platform use Linux > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sun Sep 8 10:44:04 2019 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2019 17:44:04 +0300 Subject: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development? In-Reply-To: <491A72F1-84B2-4D3B-9171-7987C1283238@all-auctions.com> References: <6hfgjospgpiebrerd764ab4g.1567925752247@email.lge.com> <491A72F1-84B2-4D3B-9171-7987C1283238@all-auctions.com> Message-ID: At which point, if Apple and Microsoft have any brain at all, they'll wake up and Linux will, finally, achieve what has always been one of its reasons for being: to stop the smugness of a duopoly that has dominated the computer world far, far too long. Richmond. On 8.09.19 17:10, Rick Harrison via use-livecode wrote: > That may be exactly what happens next if the big guys continue with their nonsense. > More developers will rebel and leave their platforms altogether in favor of Linux. > > Just my 2 cents. :-) > > Rick > >> On Sep 8, 2019, at 2:55 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: >> >> If you want a developer platform use Linux > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sun Sep 8 10:45:11 2019 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2019 17:45:11 +0300 Subject: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development? In-Reply-To: <9D8CCB4A-D788-4126-890D-65D58AEB377A@earthlearningsolutions.org> References: <6hfgjospgpiebrerd764ab4g.1567925752247@email.lge.com> <491A72F1-84B2-4D3B-9171-7987C1283238@all-auctions.com> <9D8CCB4A-D788-4126-890D-65D58AEB377A@earthlearningsolutions.org> Message-ID: This reminds me of the arguments that the British government have used to set up a surveillance society. Richmond. On 8.09.19 17:37, prothero--- via use-livecode wrote: > Folks, > With respect, I agree with Paul?s comments. We live in an online environment where we are faced, on a daily basis, with criminal activity. The worst of it can cost us financially, but even major players like Amazon record our behaviors and choices, for their profit, with disclosure statements too long, so most folks don?t read them. I get several phone calls every day from folks from ?who knows where?? trying to get my personal info so they can access my bank account. > > It is sad, I agree, that it is more difficult to make an app that we want to send to our friends, because of Apple?s security requirements. But, suppose someone distributes an app to your friends with malware and claims to be you? When there is so much info about each of us available already, spoofing as anybody else isn?t so hard. Clicking on nefarious links is common and the innocent staff of public agencies have inadvertently let ransomware into their workplace, costing big for their employer. > > I get frustrated too, about the ever changing Apple requirements that make it harder for me to share my apps. Mathew?s signing app is a wonderful contribution that will make it much easier. > > So, my mindset now is that we live in a swamp full of alligators and that protective clothing, while hot and uncomfortable, keeps me and my friends safe(er). > > Have fun, > Bill > > William Prothero > http://es.earthednet.org > >> On Sep 8, 2019, at 7:10 AM, Rick Harrison via use-livecode wrote: >> >> That may be exactly what happens next if the big guys continue with their nonsense. >> More developers will rebel and leave their platforms altogether in favor of Linux. >> >> Just my 2 cents. :-) >> >> Rick >> >>> On Sep 8, 2019, at 2:55 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> If you want a developer platform use Linux >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sun Sep 8 11:04:48 2019 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sun, 08 Sep 2019 10:04:48 -0500 Subject: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development? In-Reply-To: <491A72F1-84B2-4D3B-9171-7987C1283238@all-auctions.com> References: <6hfgjospgpiebrerd764ab4g.1567925752247@email.lge.com> <491A72F1-84B2-4D3B-9171-7987C1283238@all-auctions.com> Message-ID: <16d1167f280.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> I don't think any of us are happy about the contortions we increasingly need to go through to get apps into the app stores or out to the public. Keeping up with Apple is even harder for the LC team. But Apple sells privacy and safety as its primary distinctive feature. There are instances where an app was decompiled, malware added, and recompiled using the original author's name. That not only endangers the public, but also trashes the developer's reputation through no fault of their own. Adding a verification token is a way to make that harder. Google has a different system in place, currently optional but highly encouraged, which does the same thing since they've found several instances of this kind of malware insertion. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On September 8, 2019 9:12:55 AM Rick Harrison via use-livecode wrote: > That may be exactly what happens next if the big guys continue with their > nonsense. > More developers will rebel and leave their platforms altogether in favor of > Linux. > > Just my 2 cents. :-) > > Rick > >> On Sep 8, 2019, at 2:55 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode >> wrote: >> >> If you want a developer platform use Linux > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ilola.antti at gmail.com Sun Sep 8 14:36:33 2019 From: ilola.antti at gmail.com (Antti Ilola) Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2019 21:36:33 +0300 Subject: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development? In-Reply-To: <491A72F1-84B2-4D3B-9171-7987C1283238@all-auctions.com> References: <6hfgjospgpiebrerd764ab4g.1567925752247@email.lge.com> <491A72F1-84B2-4D3B-9171-7987C1283238@all-auctions.com> Message-ID: And then, when everybody use Linux, where do you think the bad guys is going to put their efforts. Antti su 8.9.2019 klo 17.11 Rick Harrison via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> kirjoitti: > That may be exactly what happens next if the big guys continue with their > nonsense. > More developers will rebel and leave their platforms altogether in favor > of Linux. > > Just my 2 cents. :-) > > Rick > > > On Sep 8, 2019, at 2:55 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > If you want a developer platform use Linux > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- L?hetetty iPadist? From dsc at swcp.com Sun Sep 8 18:31:45 2019 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott Consulting) Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2019 16:31:45 -0600 Subject: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development? In-Reply-To: <491A72F1-84B2-4D3B-9171-7987C1283238@all-auctions.com> References: <6hfgjospgpiebrerd764ab4g.1567925752247@email.lge.com> <491A72F1-84B2-4D3B-9171-7987C1283238@all-auctions.com> Message-ID: Maybe developers should have been pushing for code signing some time ago?on their own terms. > On Sep 8, 2019, at 8:10 AM, Rick Harrison via use-livecode wrote: > > That may be exactly what happens next if the big guys continue with their nonsense. > More developers will rebel and leave their platforms altogether in favor of Linux. > > Just my 2 cents. :-) > > Rick > >> On Sep 8, 2019, at 2:55 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: >> >> If you want a developer platform use Linux > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From engleerica at yahoo.com Sun Sep 8 22:32:33 2019 From: engleerica at yahoo.com (Eric A. Engle) Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2019 02:32:33 +0000 (UTC) Subject: livecode in terminal ; path in linux as alternative to bash? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1943817684.2794511.1567996353975@mail.yahoo.com> I am learning bash (bourne again shell) on linux; i would like to know if it is possible to 1) invoke livecode from the command line 2) how to install livcode into my path 3) whether livecode can be used as an alternative to bash? I http://lexflex.com free full text online law reviews, cases & legislation On Sunday, September 8, 2019, 12:00:24 PM EDT, wrote: Send use-livecode mailing list submissions to ??? use-livecode at lists.runrev.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit ??? http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to ??? use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com You can reach the person managing the list at ??? use-livecode-owner at lists.runrev.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of use-livecode digest..." you can find the archives for this list at: http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/ and search them using this link: http://www.google.com/advanced_search?q=site:lists.runrev.com Today's Topics: ? 1. Re: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development? ? ? ? (J. Landman Gay) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 08 Sep 2019 10:04:48 -0500 From: "J. Landman Gay" To: How to use LiveCode Subject: Re: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development? Message-ID: ??? <16d1167f280.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9 at hyperactivesw.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="us-ascii" I don't think any of us are happy about the contortions we increasingly need to go through to get apps into the app stores or out to the public. Keeping up with Apple is even harder for the LC team. But Apple sells privacy and safety as its primary distinctive feature. There are instances where an app was decompiled, malware added, and recompiled using the original author's name. That not only endangers the public, but also trashes the developer's reputation through no fault of their own. Adding a verification token is a way to make that harder. Google has a different system in place, currently optional but highly encouraged, which does the same thing since they've found several instances of this kind of malware insertion. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On September 8, 2019 9:12:55 AM Rick Harrison via use-livecode wrote: > That may be exactly what happens next if the big guys continue with their > nonsense. > More developers will rebel and leave their platforms altogether in favor of > Linux. > > Just my 2 cents.? :-) > > Rick > >> On Sep 8, 2019, at 2:55 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode >> wrote: >> >> If you want a developer platform use Linux > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ------------------------------ End of use-livecode Digest, Vol 192, Issue 10 ********************************************* From ahsoftware at sonic.net Mon Sep 9 02:59:51 2019 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2019 23:59:51 -0700 Subject: livecode in terminal ; path in linux as alternative to bash? In-Reply-To: <1943817684.2794511.1567996353975@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1943817684.2794511.1567996353975@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5838b825-1c61-94c8-06a6-e06418113aaa@sonic.net> On 9/8/19 7:32 PM, Eric A. Engle via use-livecode wrote: > I am learning bash (bourne again shell) on linux; i would like to know if it is possible to 1) invoke livecode from the command line 2) how to install livcode into my path 3) whether livecode can be used as an alternative to bash? 1. (if installed for all users) /opt/livecode// where is the product you want to launch and is whether it's 32-bit or 64-bit (you'll only have one installed. For instance with 64-bit engines installed: /opt/livecode/livecodecommunity-9.5.0.x86_64/LiveCode Community.x86_64 /opt/livecode/livecodeindy-9.0.4.x86_64/LiveCode Indy.x86_64 But if you're asking this in connection with #2 and #3, ignore this and read on. 2. That depends on your linux distribution. Assuming you're asking this in connection with #3, you can temporarily put LiveCode server in your path from the commandline (here I've got the server in my Downloads folder) PATH=$PATH:~/Downloads/servertest/ If you want it to be more permanent, you'll have to edit one of your configuration files. Depending on your linux distro it might be .bashrc or .bash_profile or /etc/environment, etc. 3. I use the LiveCode server as an alternate bash shell. Set the path as in #2, then write .lc script files (and chmod +x them before running) Here's a test.lc: #!livecode-community-server include "test1.lc" local x, y put 3 into x put x into y put "-- environment --" & cr put "libraries=" && the libraries & cr put "frontscripts=" && the frontscripts & cr put "backscripts=" && the backscripts & cr put "stacks=" && the stacks & cr put "stacksinuse=" && the stacksinuse & cr put "the version=" && the version & cr put "the environment=" && the environment & cr put "the editionType=" && the editionType & cr put "the defaultFolder=" && the defaultFolder & cr put "the defaultStack=" && the defaultStack & cr put "-- dateItem test --" & cr put 1489755600 into tVar convert tVar to dateitems put "fixed time (dateItems)=" & tVar & cr get the time convert it to dateitems put "current time (dateItems)=" & it & cr put the screenrect & cr -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From johnthejocker at yahoo.it Mon Sep 9 06:50:37 2019 From: johnthejocker at yahoo.it (Giovanni) Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2019 12:50:37 +0200 Subject: Weird behavior for modal stacks and answer dialogs Message-ID: Hi everybody, I?m writing here to report a very strange behavior of modal stacks and answer dialogs on MacOS Yosemite and Sierra. Basically the modal windows or dialogs, in these OSes simply does not work and this seems to happen since LC 6.7.x! When you open a modal stack the expected behavior is that the script execution is interrupted and you cannot interact with the calling or other opened windows. While the first thing seems to happen, the second one doesn?t work: you can click on buttons, fields or any other control in the calling stack or any other stack opened. I think that this is a very big problem mainly in porting applications from older versions of LC to the newest one and it?s quite strange that nobody else noticed this before or consider this a problem. I already filed a bug report at https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22368 in which you can also find a demo stack to easily reproduce the behavior. Anyone can comment on this? Are you experiencing this as a problem? Is there a workaround or a solution for this? The problem seems not to be present on Mojave but I was not able to try on other versions on MacOS and it?s not present on Windows. Regards! -- Giovanni From johnthejocker at yahoo.it Mon Sep 9 06:58:42 2019 From: johnthejocker at yahoo.it (Giovanni) Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2019 12:58:42 +0200 Subject: 9.5 on Windows seems terribly unable to deal with fields full of text? In-Reply-To: <3A7E352E-935F-4580-BFC2-1CC19AF6078D@gmail.com> References: <5686A97E-5836-4A61-9528-30C9E288C661@gmail.com> <3A7E352E-935F-4580-BFC2-1CC19AF6078D@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Geoff, I can confirm this and I reported this several times. The whole IDE (the script editor mainly) is quite unusable on Windows workstations, no matter how many RAM or CPU is installed. Tried all the suggestions on a lot of different Windows workstations without any success. Hope that the LC developers will have the time to investigate on this issue that has also been reported on the QA center in different formats and confirmed by a lot of people. > Il giorno 08/set/2019, alle ore 16:29, Geoff Canyon via use-livecode ha scritto: > > Just running a script with large variables, no viewers open, and setting a breakpoint took 20 seconds. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at researchware.com Mon Sep 9 07:30:49 2019 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2019 07:30:49 -0400 Subject: Weird behavior for modal stacks and answer dialogs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <902f6d3e-cb79-85a6-b165-5f191c911a16@researchware.com> On 9/9/2019 6:50 AM, Giovanni via use-livecode wrote: > Hi everybody, > I?m writing here to report a very strange behavior of modal stacks and answer dialogs on MacOS Yosemite and Sierra. > Basically the modal windows or dialogs, in these OSes simply does not work and this seems to happen since LC 6.7.x! > When you open a modal stack the expected behavior is that the script execution is interrupted and you cannot interact with the calling or other opened windows. While the first thing seems to happen, the second one doesn?t work: you can click on buttons, fields or any other control in the calling stack or any other stack opened. > I think that this is a very big problem mainly in porting applications from older versions of LC to the newest one and it?s quite strange that nobody else noticed this before or consider this a problem. > > I already filed a bug report at https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22368 in which you can also find a demo stack to easily reproduce the behavior. > > Anyone can comment on this? Are you experiencing this as a problem? Is there a workaround or a solution for this? > > The problem seems not to be present on Mojave but I was not able to try on other versions on MacOS and it?s not present on Windows. > > This one has been around for a while, and I thought it had been previously reports (but still not fixed). I seem to recall there was a lengthy discussion of it on the list a long time ago. The work-around seems to be locking things down before calling an ask or answer dialog (lock messages, lock your menus and so on) so that no other user actions can start any other script. From tom at makeshyft.com Mon Sep 9 09:32:32 2019 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2019 09:32:32 -0400 Subject: Weird behavior for modal stacks and answer dialogs In-Reply-To: <902f6d3e-cb79-85a6-b165-5f191c911a16@researchware.com> References: <902f6d3e-cb79-85a6-b165-5f191c911a16@researchware.com> Message-ID: Yeah.... i remember getting really heated when this behaviior was introduced. drove me nuts. I think I just used a "wait while stack is open" kind of command (with messages) and it works fine. On Mon, Sep 9, 2019 at 7:31 AM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On 9/9/2019 6:50 AM, Giovanni via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi everybody, > > I?m writing here to report a very strange behavior of modal stacks and > answer dialogs on MacOS Yosemite and Sierra. > > Basically the modal windows or dialogs, in these OSes simply does not > work and this seems to happen since LC 6.7.x! > > When you open a modal stack the expected behavior is that the script > execution is interrupted and you cannot interact with the calling or other > opened windows. While the first thing seems to happen, the second one > doesn?t work: you can click on buttons, fields or any other control in the > calling stack or any other stack opened. > > I think that this is a very big problem mainly in porting applications > from older versions of LC to the newest one and it?s quite strange that > nobody else noticed this before or consider this a problem. > > > > I already filed a bug report at > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22368 < > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22368> in which you can also > find a demo stack to easily reproduce the behavior. > > > > Anyone can comment on this? Are you experiencing this as a problem? Is > there a workaround or a solution for this? > > > > The problem seems not to be present on Mojave but I was not able to try > on other versions on MacOS and it?s not present on Windows. > > > > > > This one has been around for a while, and I thought it had been > previously reports (but still not fixed). I seem to recall there was a > lengthy discussion of it on the list a long time ago. > > The work-around seems to be locking things down before calling an ask or > answer dialog (lock messages, lock your menus and so on) so that no > other user actions can start any other script. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From brahma at hindu.org Mon Sep 9 09:53:59 2019 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2019 13:53:59 +0000 Subject: Regression iOS: unlock screen for visual effect Message-ID: <8545BF97-0E73-41A9-9BB0-6A2B06ACF13C@hindu.org> I am getting a "flicker" instead of a "dissolve" in LC9.5 + latest iOS on iPhone 12.4.1 command loadNewImage pPath lock screen for visual effect set the filename of sMainImage to pPath setImageToFullCardLoc sMainImage, "portrait", 0,0 centerMe sMainImage,0,0 show sMainImage --with visual effect "dissolve" unlock screen with visual effect "dissolve" end loadNewImage same code, an Android: I get a smooth "dissolve" I know Apple keeps changing things. I don't know how far back this goes, where it was OK on an earlier version of LC or whether it was working on an earlier version of iOS... can anyone confirm? BR From panos.merakos at livecode.com Mon Sep 9 11:02:00 2019 From: panos.merakos at livecode.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2019 18:02:00 +0300 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 193 Message-ID: Hi all, Read about new developments in LiveCode open source and the open source community in today's edition of the "This Week in LiveCode" newsletter! Read issue #193 here: http://bit.ly/2m0NTr5 This is a weekly newsletter about LiveCode, focussing on what's been going on in and around the open source project. New issues will be released weekly on Mondays. We have a dedicated mailing list that will deliver each issue directly to you e-mail, so you don't miss any! If you have anything you'd like mentioned (a project, a discussion somewhere, an upcoming event) then please get in touch. -- Panagiotis Merakos LiveCode Software Developer Everyone Can Create Apps From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Mon Sep 9 11:10:59 2019 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2019 15:10:59 +0000 Subject: Weird behavior for modal stacks and answer dialogs In-Reply-To: <902f6d3e-cb79-85a6-b165-5f191c911a16@researchware.com> References: <902f6d3e-cb79-85a6-b165-5f191c911a16@researchware.com> Message-ID: <82F076CB-7228-4C4E-9E1B-CD3A6A705A0D@iotecdigital.com> In more recent versions of MacOS the ability to interact with an application that was not the foreground application was added as a feature. For instance I can scroll a web page using the mouse wheel even though the web browser is not the frontmost app. I'm not sure how this could be disabled for modal windows only. I have seen other apps that do NOT allow interaction with a window if it is in the background. Perhaps what we need is a new command to turn off background interaction? Bob S > On Sep 9, 2019, at 04:30 , Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > > On 9/9/2019 6:50 AM, Giovanni via use-livecode wrote: >> Hi everybody, >> I?m writing here to report a very strange behavior of modal stacks and answer dialogs on MacOS Yosemite and Sierra. >> Basically the modal windows or dialogs, in these OSes simply does not work and this seems to happen since LC 6.7.x! >> When you open a modal stack the expected behavior is that the script execution is interrupted and you cannot interact with the calling or other opened windows. While the first thing seems to happen, the second one doesn?t work: you can click on buttons, fields or any other control in the calling stack or any other stack opened. >> I think that this is a very big problem mainly in porting applications from older versions of LC to the newest one and it?s quite strange that nobody else noticed this before or consider this a problem. >> >> I already filed a bug report at https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22368 in which you can also find a demo stack to easily reproduce the behavior. >> >> Anyone can comment on this? Are you experiencing this as a problem? Is there a workaround or a solution for this? >> >> The problem seems not to be present on Mojave but I was not able to try on other versions on MacOS and it?s not present on Windows. >> >> > > This one has been around for a while, and I thought it had been previously reports (but still not fixed). I seem to recall there was a lengthy discussion of it on the list a long time ago. > > The work-around seems to be locking things down before calling an ask or answer dialog (lock messages, lock your menus and so on) so that no other user actions can start any other script. From johnthejocker at yahoo.it Mon Sep 9 11:16:05 2019 From: johnthejocker at yahoo.it (Giovanni) Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2019 17:16:05 +0200 Subject: Weird behavior for modal stacks and answer dialogs In-Reply-To: <902f6d3e-cb79-85a6-b165-5f191c911a16@researchware.com> References: <902f6d3e-cb79-85a6-b165-5f191c911a16@researchware.com> Message-ID: <5E623588-9E66-4A63-BECA-E460B4196C67@yahoo.it> Hi everybody, thanks for feedback. I think that the ones suggested cannot be considered as a solutions nor a workarounds. If I am working on an application with thousands (literally) of answer/ask dialogs and modal called windows I cannot review all my code to find a way to do something that the engine is called to do on its own, don?t you think? Anyway the ?lock messages? can be used with answer/ask dialog but not with modal windows that are intended to be used by the user. Moreover as the modal stack behavior is correct on Windows and seems to be correct on latest MacOS versions I found really strange to garbage my code to workaround an issue that, in my opinion, can be classified as a bug. During my investigation I found an interesting thing: starting QuickTime to produce a screencast the app starts working properly even without closing/restarting it. Closing QuickTime immediately reintroduce the problem. This sounds like QuickTime uses a system library that LC should use but doesn?t. Can someone give an hint about this?! > Il giorno 09/set/2019, alle ore 13:30, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode ha scritto: > > On 9/9/2019 6:50 AM, Giovanni via use-livecode wrote: >> Hi everybody, >> I?m writing here to report a very strange behavior of modal stacks and answer dialogs on MacOS Yosemite and Sierra. >> Basically the modal windows or dialogs, in these OSes simply does not work and this seems to happen since LC 6.7.x! >> When you open a modal stack the expected behavior is that the script execution is interrupted and you cannot interact with the calling or other opened windows. While the first thing seems to happen, the second one doesn?t work: you can click on buttons, fields or any other control in the calling stack or any other stack opened. >> I think that this is a very big problem mainly in porting applications from older versions of LC to the newest one and it?s quite strange that nobody else noticed this before or consider this a problem. >> >> I already filed a bug report at https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22368 in which you can also find a demo stack to easily reproduce the behavior. >> >> Anyone can comment on this? Are you experiencing this as a problem? Is there a workaround or a solution for this? >> >> The problem seems not to be present on Mojave but I was not able to try on other versions on MacOS and it?s not present on Windows. >> >> > > This one has been around for a while, and I thought it had been previously reports (but still not fixed). I seem to recall there was a lengthy discussion of it on the list a long time ago. > > The work-around seems to be locking things down before calling an ask or answer dialog (lock messages, lock your menus and so on) so that no other user actions can start any other script. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mark at livecode.com Mon Sep 9 11:44:05 2019 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2019 16:44:05 +0100 Subject: Weird behavior for modal stacks and answer dialogs In-Reply-To: <5E623588-9E66-4A63-BECA-E460B4196C67@yahoo.it> References: <902f6d3e-cb79-85a6-b165-5f191c911a16@researchware.com> <5E623588-9E66-4A63-BECA-E460B4196C67@yahoo.it> Message-ID: On 2019-09-09 16:16, Giovanni via use-livecode wrote: > Hi everybody, > thanks for feedback. > I think that the ones suggested cannot be considered as a solutions > nor a workarounds. > If I am working on an application with thousands (literally) of > answer/ask dialogs and modal called windows I cannot review all my > code to find a way to do something that the engine is called to do on > its own, don?t you think? > Anyway the ?lock messages? can be used with answer/ask dialog but not > with modal windows that are intended to be used by the user. > Moreover as the modal stack behavior is correct on Windows and seems > to be correct on latest MacOS versions I found really strange to > garbage my code to workaround an issue that, in my opinion, can be > classified as a bug. This sounds like - the bug appears to be triggered when certain other apps are running but we have yet to be able to find out *why* these other apps have an effect on LC :( > During my investigation I found an interesting thing: starting > QuickTime to produce a screencast the app starts working properly even > without closing/restarting it. Closing QuickTime immediately > reintroduce the problem. This sounds like QuickTime uses a system > library that LC should use but doesn?t. Can someone give an hint about > this?! That is intriguing - the fact that QT makes LC's modal windows work correctly again is potentially quite a useful discovery. Do the machines which exhibit the bug have any 'always running' software (e.g. like Spotify as suggested in the above bug). Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Mon Sep 9 14:07:30 2019 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe) Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2019 20:07:30 +0200 Subject: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development? In-Reply-To: <178E6E41-1FC3-4584-9437-C2DE04AD5BEC@reidit.co.uk> References: <178E6E41-1FC3-4584-9437-C2DE04AD5BEC@reidit.co.uk> Message-ID: Although i understand anyone?s concern about Apple new requirement for notarization, i welcome Apple?s effort to make Mac OS X apps more secure for the users. I was also not very happy when i first heard that 10.14.6 will not start unnotarized apps right away. But what are our options here? Either we stop developing for Apple or we fulfill Apple?s requirements. Everyone has to decide for her/himself, if the extra work for this Notarization is worth it. Even if there is a way to run unnotarized apps under Mojave by going to security control panel and allow the app to be opened, i think this is not very user friendly and also not not very trustworthy, regardless if it is a free or a commercial app. Under Windows developers have to purchase a CodeSigining Certificate which costs from 79,- to 300,- USD, depending on where you buy from and depending on the type of the certificate, to be able to codesign. And if i remember right, also under future Windows versions it will be more difficult to run unsigned Apps. At least there will be a popup with a warning message, this is currently in Win10 the case. That is also not very trustworthy, isn?t it? Anyway, some weeks ago i?ve posted a link to a Livecode lesson which not only describes the required manual steps to notarize and staple an app for distribution outside the Mac Appstore , but also includes an helper stack which does all the needed steps. You?ll find the lesson here: Regards, Matthias Matthias Rebbe free tools for Livecoders: InstaMaker WinSignMaker Mac > Am 07.09.2019 um 13:18 schrieb Peter Reid via use-livecode >: > > I've been using LiveCode as my development platform since 1999. Practically all the apps I've developed have been for in-house use by my family, friends and customers - all very low numbers of copies distributed in an informal manner. I've no interest in App Store distribution and the users of my apps trust me such that they do not need my apps to be "approved" by Apple. What's more important to them is how quickly I can release new apps and new versions of existing apps. > > Up to and including macOS Mojave my users can run my apps with the minor inconvenience of having to right-click an app and approve its use, just once. With macOS Catalina, if I understand things, it's not so simple, instead these are the options: > > 1. Code-sign and notarise my apps ? I'm not interested in this for my kind of apps which are essentially in-house/at home developments. > > 2. Using an active Internet connection, go through the right-click technique as now not just once, but EVERY time the app is opened. > > In the past the 'Security & Privacy' General tab had a 3rd option for the setting 'Allow apps downloaded from:' which allowed you to install and use apps from any source. It seems that this is not possible with Catalina. > > So with Catalina my users will need an Internet connection and will have to go through the right-click authorisation process every time they open one of my apps. > > More seriously, it is becoming increasingly difficult to recommend the combination of the Mac plus LiveCode for app development. Up to now I've done all my app development on Mac+LC, even where the target platform is Windows or Android or Linux ? I find it's simply faster, less error-prone and more pleasant with the Mac. However, from Catalina onwards even simple little utility apps, created for short-term use, will be tedious when opening or you have to learn about the complexity of code-signing and notarising and accept slower development cycles due to the need for Apple's approval! > > This is quite depressing, especially since I abandoned iOS development due to Apple's distribution restrictions. > > Back when the iPad 2 had just been released I developed for one of my customers an app to support health & safety audits for a national UK retail chain. The app took me 15 days to develop in total. As a result of being able to field a team of 10-20 staff with iPads running my app, my customer was able to carry out 350 half-day H&S audits for 3 years. However I was unable to roll-out this app to other customers as the ad hoc distribution method I was using was limited to 100 iPads per year and the App Store was not appropriate for this type of app. > > As a result of the limitations Apple impose on tablet app distribution, recently I developed a speech-aid app just for small Android tablets and larger phones. I have not made an iOS app. This app is low volume (in terms of number of users) and requires significant personalising in order to be effective for its users (typically they are stroke victims). I chose to deliver the app on Android because of the facility to use developer mode and because of price ? Android 7in tablet plus minimal add-ons: ?80, Apple iPad plus add-ons: ?320. Some of my users of this app already have an iPad but they are having to buy a cheap Android tablet. Like the Mac and Catalina, the iPad and iOS is driving away potential app developers due to Apple's rigid control of the delivery mechanisms. > > Maybe I'm wrong, Catalina will be OK ? if I am wrong, please correct me! > > Regards > > Peter > -- > Peter Reid > Loughborough, UK > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Sep 9 14:08:40 2019 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2019 13:08:40 -0500 Subject: Merge and unicode Message-ID: It seems that the merge command doesn't respect unicode. Does anyone have a workaround? The text I'm inserting is already decoded to UTF16. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Sep 9 14:13:53 2019 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2019 13:13:53 -0500 Subject: Merge and unicode In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4ef05972-c846-5d4e-aacb-160b9dd01271@hyperactivesw.com> On 9/9/19 1:08 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > It seems that the merge command doesn't respect unicode. Does anyone > have a workaround? The text I'm inserting is already decoded to UTF16. > I misspoke, sorry. It's the metadata that doesn't respect unicode. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From paul at researchware.com Mon Sep 9 15:39:56 2019 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2019 15:39:56 -0400 Subject: Merge and unicode In-Reply-To: <4ef05972-c846-5d4e-aacb-160b9dd01271@hyperactivesw.com> References: <4ef05972-c846-5d4e-aacb-160b9dd01271@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: On 9/9/2019 2:13 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > On 9/9/19 1:08 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >> It seems that the merge command doesn't respect unicode. Does anyone >> have a workaround? The text I'm inserting is already decoded to UTF16. >> > > I misspoke, sorry. It's the metadata that doesn't respect unicode. > Can you clarify what you mean when you say the "metadata" doesn't respect Unicode? I'm in the middle of a big Unicode problem and have found and reported a ton of bugs where Unicode is not yet everywhere. I'm keenly interested in any I don't know about. From paul at researchware.com Mon Sep 9 15:44:30 2019 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2019 15:44:30 -0400 Subject: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development? In-Reply-To: References: <178E6E41-1FC3-4584-9437-C2DE04AD5BEC@reidit.co.uk> Message-ID: If I want to develop an small OSX (or Windows) app for my wife to help her keep track of some hobby related items, I should not have to code sign or notarize it for OSX or Windows or, honestly, any platform. Every OS should provide a way that the USER is still in control of their OS and can tell the OS, I trust this application. Period. Attempting to idiot proof the OS only leads to the creation of more idiots. On 9/9/2019 2:07 PM, Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode wrote: > Although i understand anyone?s concern about Apple new requirement for notarization, i welcome Apple?s effort to make Mac OS X apps more secure for the users. I was also not very happy when i first heard that 10.14.6 will not start unnotarized apps right away. > > But what are our options here? > Either we stop developing for Apple or we fulfill Apple?s requirements. Everyone has to decide for her/himself, if the extra work for this Notarization is worth it. > > Even if there is a way to run unnotarized apps under Mojave by going to security control panel and allow the app to be opened, i think this is not very user friendly and also not not very trustworthy, regardless if it is a free or a commercial app. > > > Under Windows developers have to purchase a CodeSigining Certificate which costs from 79,- to 300,- USD, depending on where you buy from and depending on the type of the certificate, to be able to codesign. And if i remember right, also under future Windows versions it will be more difficult to run unsigned Apps. At least there will be a popup with a warning message, this is currently in Win10 the case. That is also not very trustworthy, isn?t it? > > > > Anyway, some weeks ago i?ve posted a link to a Livecode lesson which not only describes the required manual steps to notarize and staple an app for distribution outside the Mac Appstore , but also includes an helper stack which does all the needed steps. > > You?ll find the lesson here: > > > Regards, > Matthias > > Matthias Rebbe > > free tools for Livecoders: > InstaMaker > WinSignMaker Mac >> Am 07.09.2019 um 13:18 schrieb Peter Reid via use-livecode >: >> >> I've been using LiveCode as my development platform since 1999. Practically all the apps I've developed have been for in-house use by my family, friends and customers - all very low numbers of copies distributed in an informal manner. I've no interest in App Store distribution and the users of my apps trust me such that they do not need my apps to be "approved" by Apple. What's more important to them is how quickly I can release new apps and new versions of existing apps. >> >> Up to and including macOS Mojave my users can run my apps with the minor inconvenience of having to right-click an app and approve its use, just once. With macOS Catalina, if I understand things, it's not so simple, instead these are the options: >> >> 1. Code-sign and notarise my apps ? I'm not interested in this for my kind of apps which are essentially in-house/at home developments. >> >> 2. Using an active Internet connection, go through the right-click technique as now not just once, but EVERY time the app is opened. >> >> In the past the 'Security & Privacy' General tab had a 3rd option for the setting 'Allow apps downloaded from:' which allowed you to install and use apps from any source. It seems that this is not possible with Catalina. >> >> So with Catalina my users will need an Internet connection and will have to go through the right-click authorisation process every time they open one of my apps. >> >> More seriously, it is becoming increasingly difficult to recommend the combination of the Mac plus LiveCode for app development. Up to now I've done all my app development on Mac+LC, even where the target platform is Windows or Android or Linux ? I find it's simply faster, less error-prone and more pleasant with the Mac. However, from Catalina onwards even simple little utility apps, created for short-term use, will be tedious when opening or you have to learn about the complexity of code-signing and notarising and accept slower development cycles due to the need for Apple's approval! >> >> This is quite depressing, especially since I abandoned iOS development due to Apple's distribution restrictions. >> >> Back when the iPad 2 had just been released I developed for one of my customers an app to support health & safety audits for a national UK retail chain. The app took me 15 days to develop in total. As a result of being able to field a team of 10-20 staff with iPads running my app, my customer was able to carry out 350 half-day H&S audits for 3 years. However I was unable to roll-out this app to other customers as the ad hoc distribution method I was using was limited to 100 iPads per year and the App Store was not appropriate for this type of app. >> >> As a result of the limitations Apple impose on tablet app distribution, recently I developed a speech-aid app just for small Android tablets and larger phones. I have not made an iOS app. This app is low volume (in terms of number of users) and requires significant personalising in order to be effective for its users (typically they are stroke victims). I chose to deliver the app on Android because of the facility to use developer mode and because of price ? Android 7in tablet plus minimal add-ons: ?80, Apple iPad plus add-ons: ?320. Some of my users of this app already have an iPad but they are having to buy a cheap Android tablet. Like the Mac and Catalina, the iPad and iOS is driving away potential app developers due to Apple's rigid control of the delivery mechanisms. >> >> Maybe I'm wrong, Catalina will be OK ? if I am wrong, please correct me! >> >> Regards >> >> Peter >> -- >> Peter Reid >> Loughborough, UK >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Mon Sep 9 17:04:27 2019 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2019 21:04:27 +0000 Subject: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development? In-Reply-To: References: <178E6E41-1FC3-4584-9437-C2DE04AD5BEC@reidit.co.uk> Message-ID: I'm on your side on this one. OS developers are not getting sued by end users because they get malware. What is the impetus for all this?? Apple long ago had a policy tthat if they introduced a new way of doing something, the user could revert to the way it used to work. This ought to be a feature we can turn on or off at will. Apple has no standing to prevent anything we want to install on our computers INCLUDING MALWARE if we so desire. It's absolutely none of their business. Bob S > On Sep 9, 2019, at 12:44 , Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > > If I want to develop an small OSX (or Windows) app for my wife to help her keep track of some hobby related items, I should not have to code sign or notarize it for OSX or Windows or, honestly, any platform. > > Every OS should provide a way that the USER is still in control of their OS and can tell the OS, I trust this application. Period. > > Attempting to idiot proof the OS only leads to the creation of more idiots. From dsc at swcp.com Mon Sep 9 17:07:31 2019 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott Consulting) Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2019 15:07:31 -0600 Subject: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development? In-Reply-To: References: <178E6E41-1FC3-4584-9437-C2DE04AD5BEC@reidit.co.uk> Message-ID: <009C62D4-6DDA-4262-ABAA-245EDCBB58EF@swcp.com> Thank you for your work in this. I like the idea of identity signing of files, documents, programs, messages and links. I was all PGP at one time. I am making a shortlist of Electronic Lab Notebooks, and automated time-stamping and easy page/paragraph signing are important features. I encourage customers to sign documents and I am pleased to. In principle, I like codesigning. I like the idea of customers far away and great grandchildren knowing that I wrote something and they can be assured. However, I dream of an ideal world in which I can establish an identity once and then check a box in the preferences in my IDE. For every person there is a cost, both in the learning curve and in money ($100 per year for Apple IIRC and about the same for Windows). The yearly vetting is a racket; I can assure folks I rarely turn into somebody else. And the Apple patronizing is a high cost psychologically. But it is like taxes and typhoons, it is the adventure I am handed in life and I address that. So, I'm ready to renew my Apple Developer membership (cheaper than MSDN) and jump into the fray. I will take heart and enter the next decade. I skimmed over the lesson. I'm going to go rest. Dar Scott Mad Scientist PS: Wasn't Stuxnet codesigned? > On Sep 9, 2019, at 12:07 PM, Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode wrote: > > Although i understand anyone?s concern about Apple new requirement for notarization, i welcome Apple?s effort to make Mac OS X apps more secure for the users. I was also not very happy when i first heard that 10.14.6 will not start unnotarized apps right away. > > But what are our options here? > Either we stop developing for Apple or we fulfill Apple?s requirements. Everyone has to decide for her/himself, if the extra work for this Notarization is worth it. > > Even if there is a way to run unnotarized apps under Mojave by going to security control panel and allow the app to be opened, i think this is not very user friendly and also not not very trustworthy, regardless if it is a free or a commercial app. > > > Under Windows developers have to purchase a CodeSigining Certificate which costs from 79,- to 300,- USD, depending on where you buy from and depending on the type of the certificate, to be able to codesign. And if i remember right, also under future Windows versions it will be more difficult to run unsigned Apps. At least there will be a popup with a warning message, this is currently in Win10 the case. That is also not very trustworthy, isn?t it? > > > > Anyway, some weeks ago i?ve posted a link to a Livecode lesson which not only describes the required manual steps to notarize and staple an app for distribution outside the Mac Appstore , but also includes an helper stack which does all the needed steps. > > You?ll find the lesson here: > > > Regards, > Matthias > > Matthias Rebbe > > free tools for Livecoders: > InstaMaker > WinSignMaker Mac >> Am 07.09.2019 um 13:18 schrieb Peter Reid via use-livecode >: >> >> I've been using LiveCode as my development platform since 1999. Practically all the apps I've developed have been for in-house use by my family, friends and customers - all very low numbers of copies distributed in an informal manner. I've no interest in App Store distribution and the users of my apps trust me such that they do not need my apps to be "approved" by Apple. What's more important to them is how quickly I can release new apps and new versions of existing apps. >> >> Up to and including macOS Mojave my users can run my apps with the minor inconvenience of having to right-click an app and approve its use, just once. With macOS Catalina, if I understand things, it's not so simple, instead these are the options: >> >> 1. Code-sign and notarise my apps ? I'm not interested in this for my kind of apps which are essentially in-house/at home developments. >> >> 2. Using an active Internet connection, go through the right-click technique as now not just once, but EVERY time the app is opened. >> >> In the past the 'Security & Privacy' General tab had a 3rd option for the setting 'Allow apps downloaded from:' which allowed you to install and use apps from any source. It seems that this is not possible with Catalina. >> >> So with Catalina my users will need an Internet connection and will have to go through the right-click authorisation process every time they open one of my apps. >> >> More seriously, it is becoming increasingly difficult to recommend the combination of the Mac plus LiveCode for app development. Up to now I've done all my app development on Mac+LC, even where the target platform is Windows or Android or Linux ? I find it's simply faster, less error-prone and more pleasant with the Mac. However, from Catalina onwards even simple little utility apps, created for short-term use, will be tedious when opening or you have to learn about the complexity of code-signing and notarising and accept slower development cycles due to the need for Apple's approval! >> >> This is quite depressing, especially since I abandoned iOS development due to Apple's distribution restrictions. >> >> Back when the iPad 2 had just been released I developed for one of my customers an app to support health & safety audits for a national UK retail chain. The app took me 15 days to develop in total. As a result of being able to field a team of 10-20 staff with iPads running my app, my customer was able to carry out 350 half-day H&S audits for 3 years. However I was unable to roll-out this app to other customers as the ad hoc distribution method I was using was limited to 100 iPads per year and the App Store was not appropriate for this type of app. >> >> As a result of the limitations Apple impose on tablet app distribution, recently I developed a speech-aid app just for small Android tablets and larger phones. I have not made an iOS app. This app is low volume (in terms of number of users) and requires significant personalising in order to be effective for its users (typically they are stroke victims). I chose to deliver the app on Android because of the facility to use developer mode and because of price ? Android 7in tablet plus minimal add-ons: ?80, Apple iPad plus add-ons: ?320. Some of my users of this app already have an iPad but they are having to buy a cheap Android tablet. Like the Mac and Catalina, the iPad and iOS is driving away potential app developers due to Apple's rigid control of the delivery mechanisms. >> >> Maybe I'm wrong, Catalina will be OK ? if I am wrong, please correct me! >> >> Regards >> >> Peter >> -- >> Peter Reid >> Loughborough, UK >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > From dsc at swcp.com Mon Sep 9 17:16:57 2019 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott Consulting) Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2019 15:16:57 -0600 Subject: Merge and unicode In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <98BD1F10-BB35-4B8E-9920-6472A88CBE2C@swcp.com> I'm not sure I understand. Do you mean "encoded to UTF-16"? In that case you should decode that to convert it to internal text. And then try merge. (Which still might have problems, I suppose.) > On Sep 9, 2019, at 12:08 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > > It seems that the merge command doesn't respect unicode. Does anyone have a workaround? The text I'm inserting is already decoded to UTF16. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From kee.nethery at elloco.com Mon Sep 9 18:27:10 2019 From: kee.nethery at elloco.com (kee nethery) Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2019 15:27:10 -0700 Subject: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development? In-Reply-To: <009C62D4-6DDA-4262-ABAA-245EDCBB58EF@swcp.com> References: <178E6E41-1FC3-4584-9437-C2DE04AD5BEC@reidit.co.uk> <009C62D4-6DDA-4262-ABAA-245EDCBB58EF@swcp.com> Message-ID: <9D7ADC32-69DA-4035-B829-05412E844C13@elloco.com> I wrote an article on this process for MacOS and it took some time for me to figure out all the steps. Once documented, doesn?t really take that long to do. Apple doesn?t judge the contents of personally signed apps and the $99 per year is not a burden for me. I know a bunch of users who click on everything and download stuff and agree to all sorts of silly stuff and then claim that they have been hacked (and perhaps they have been hacked). I?m OK with extra steps if the OS becomes safer for folks who really do not understand security. Just my two cents. Kee nethery > On Sep 9, 2019, at 2:07 PM, Dar Scott Consulting via use-livecode wrote: > > Thank you for your work in this. > > I like the idea of identity signing of files, documents, programs, messages and links. I was all PGP at one time. I am making a shortlist of Electronic Lab Notebooks, and automated time-stamping and easy page/paragraph signing are important features. I encourage customers to sign documents and I am pleased to. In principle, I like codesigning. I like the idea of customers far away and great grandchildren knowing that I wrote something and they can be assured. However, I dream of an ideal world in which I can establish an identity once and then check a box in the preferences in my IDE. > > For every person there is a cost, both in the learning curve and in money ($100 per year for Apple IIRC and about the same for Windows). The yearly vetting is a racket; I can assure folks I rarely turn into somebody else. And the Apple patronizing is a high cost psychologically. But it is like taxes and typhoons, it is the adventure I am handed in life and I address that. > > So, I'm ready to renew my Apple Developer membership (cheaper than MSDN) and jump into the fray. I will take heart and enter the next decade. > > I skimmed over the lesson. I'm going to go rest. > > Dar Scott > Mad Scientist > > > PS: Wasn't Stuxnet codesigned? > > >> On Sep 9, 2019, at 12:07 PM, Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Although i understand anyone?s concern about Apple new requirement for notarization, i welcome Apple?s effort to make Mac OS X apps more secure for the users. I was also not very happy when i first heard that 10.14.6 will not start unnotarized apps right away. >> >> But what are our options here? >> Either we stop developing for Apple or we fulfill Apple?s requirements. Everyone has to decide for her/himself, if the extra work for this Notarization is worth it. >> >> Even if there is a way to run unnotarized apps under Mojave by going to security control panel and allow the app to be opened, i think this is not very user friendly and also not not very trustworthy, regardless if it is a free or a commercial app. >> >> >> Under Windows developers have to purchase a CodeSigining Certificate which costs from 79,- to 300,- USD, depending on where you buy from and depending on the type of the certificate, to be able to codesign. And if i remember right, also under future Windows versions it will be more difficult to run unsigned Apps. At least there will be a popup with a warning message, this is currently in Win10 the case. That is also not very trustworthy, isn?t it? >> >> >> >> Anyway, some weeks ago i?ve posted a link to a Livecode lesson which not only describes the required manual steps to notarize and staple an app for distribution outside the Mac Appstore , but also includes an helper stack which does all the needed steps. >> >> You?ll find the lesson here: >> >> >> Regards, >> Matthias >> >> Matthias Rebbe >> >> free tools for Livecoders: >> InstaMaker >> WinSignMaker Mac >>> Am 07.09.2019 um 13:18 schrieb Peter Reid via use-livecode >: >>> >>> I've been using LiveCode as my development platform since 1999. Practically all the apps I've developed have been for in-house use by my family, friends and customers - all very low numbers of copies distributed in an informal manner. I've no interest in App Store distribution and the users of my apps trust me such that they do not need my apps to be "approved" by Apple. What's more important to them is how quickly I can release new apps and new versions of existing apps. >>> >>> Up to and including macOS Mojave my users can run my apps with the minor inconvenience of having to right-click an app and approve its use, just once. With macOS Catalina, if I understand things, it's not so simple, instead these are the options: >>> >>> 1. Code-sign and notarise my apps ? I'm not interested in this for my kind of apps which are essentially in-house/at home developments. >>> >>> 2. Using an active Internet connection, go through the right-click technique as now not just once, but EVERY time the app is opened. >>> >>> In the past the 'Security & Privacy' General tab had a 3rd option for the setting 'Allow apps downloaded from:' which allowed you to install and use apps from any source. It seems that this is not possible with Catalina. >>> >>> So with Catalina my users will need an Internet connection and will have to go through the right-click authorisation process every time they open one of my apps. >>> >>> More seriously, it is becoming increasingly difficult to recommend the combination of the Mac plus LiveCode for app development. Up to now I've done all my app development on Mac+LC, even where the target platform is Windows or Android or Linux ? I find it's simply faster, less error-prone and more pleasant with the Mac. However, from Catalina onwards even simple little utility apps, created for short-term use, will be tedious when opening or you have to learn about the complexity of code-signing and notarising and accept slower development cycles due to the need for Apple's approval! >>> >>> This is quite depressing, especially since I abandoned iOS development due to Apple's distribution restrictions. >>> >>> Back when the iPad 2 had just been released I developed for one of my customers an app to support health & safety audits for a national UK retail chain. The app took me 15 days to develop in total. As a result of being able to field a team of 10-20 staff with iPads running my app, my customer was able to carry out 350 half-day H&S audits for 3 years. However I was unable to roll-out this app to other customers as the ad hoc distribution method I was using was limited to 100 iPads per year and the App Store was not appropriate for this type of app. >>> >>> As a result of the limitations Apple impose on tablet app distribution, recently I developed a speech-aid app just for small Android tablets and larger phones. I have not made an iOS app. This app is low volume (in terms of number of users) and requires significant personalising in order to be effective for its users (typically they are stroke victims). I chose to deliver the app on Android because of the facility to use developer mode and because of price ? Android 7in tablet plus minimal add-ons: ?80, Apple iPad plus add-ons: ?320. Some of my users of this app already have an iPad but they are having to buy a cheap Android tablet. Like the Mac and Catalina, the iPad and iOS is driving away potential app developers due to Apple's rigid control of the delivery mechanisms. >>> >>> Maybe I'm wrong, Catalina will be OK ? if I am wrong, please correct me! >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> Peter >>> -- >>> Peter Reid >>> Loughborough, UK >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Sep 9 18:35:05 2019 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2019 17:35:05 -0500 Subject: Merge and unicode In-Reply-To: References: <4ef05972-c846-5d4e-aacb-160b9dd01271@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <6e58fa5b-6cdc-c113-b055-a70ad6f5acab@hyperactivesw.com> On 9/9/19 2:39 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > On 9/9/2019 2:13 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >> On 9/9/19 1:08 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >>> It seems that the merge command doesn't respect unicode. Does anyone >>> have a workaround? The text I'm inserting is already decoded to UTF16. >>> >> >> I misspoke, sorry. It's the metadata that doesn't respect unicode. >> > > Can you clarify what you mean when you say the "metadata" doesn't > respect Unicode? > > I'm in the middle of a big Unicode problem and have found and reported a > ton of bugs where Unicode is not yet everywhere. I'm keenly interested > in any I don't know about. Actually I just double-checked and both merge and metadata may be wrong. I get UTF8 text from a server that is then textDecoded to UTF16, and an html template that I merge with parts of the UTF16 text. In the variable watcher, the merged template looks correct but when a field is set to the htmltext the result is wrong, diacriticals and curly quotes are question marks. My solution for that was to urlEncode the content before merging, and urlDecoding when extracting it for display. That works. In another part of the app I use the same (UTF16) text to set the metadata of a line in a field. When the script gets the metadata later, diacriticals and curly quotes are strange characters with very high UTF numbers. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Sep 9 18:38:53 2019 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2019 17:38:53 -0500 Subject: Merge and unicode In-Reply-To: <98BD1F10-BB35-4B8E-9920-6472A88CBE2C@swcp.com> References: <98BD1F10-BB35-4B8E-9920-6472A88CBE2C@swcp.com> Message-ID: <6e7b4204-d0c3-47a3-b50e-30a698918cf1@hyperactivesw.com> It's UTF8 text from a server, which I textDecode to UTF16. When I use the UTF16 text in a merge, diacriticals and/or curly quotes get mangled. (Same with setting metadata on field text too.) On 9/9/19 4:16 PM, Dar Scott Consulting via use-livecode wrote: > I'm not sure I understand. > > Do you mean "encoded to UTF-16"? In that case you should decode that to convert it to internal text. And then try merge. (Which still might have problems, I suppose.) > > >> On Sep 9, 2019, at 12:08 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >> >> It seems that the merge command doesn't respect unicode. Does anyone have a workaround? The text I'm inserting is already decoded to UTF16. >> >> -- >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From paul at researchware.com Mon Sep 9 19:54:41 2019 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2019 19:54:41 -0400 Subject: Merge and unicode In-Reply-To: <6e58fa5b-6cdc-c113-b055-a70ad6f5acab@hyperactivesw.com> References: <4ef05972-c846-5d4e-aacb-160b9dd01271@hyperactivesw.com> <6e58fa5b-6cdc-c113-b055-a70ad6f5acab@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <53161f67-097c-55e3-c1fd-d5c01828d1cc@researchware.com> Doesn't any Unicode in htmlText of a field need to be in HTML form (i.e. #;? I thought htmlText turns any non ASCII into either hex encoded html or, where html entity names exists, uses html entity names. On 9/9/2019 6:35 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > On 9/9/19 2:39 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: >> On 9/9/2019 2:13 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >>> On 9/9/19 1:08 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >>>> It seems that the merge command doesn't respect unicode. Does >>>> anyone have a workaround? The text I'm inserting is already decoded >>>> to UTF16. >>>> >>> >>> I misspoke, sorry. It's the metadata that doesn't respect unicode. >>> >> >> Can you clarify what you mean when you say the "metadata" doesn't >> respect Unicode? >> >> I'm in the middle of a big Unicode problem and have found and >> reported a ton of bugs where Unicode is not yet everywhere. I'm >> keenly interested in any I don't know about. > > Actually I just double-checked and both merge and metadata may be wrong. > > I get UTF8 text from a server that is then textDecoded to UTF16, and > an html template that I merge with parts of the UTF16 text. In the > variable watcher, the merged template looks correct but when a field > is set to the htmltext the result is wrong, diacriticals and curly > quotes are question marks. My solution for that was to urlEncode the > content before merging, and urlDecoding when extracting it for > display. That works. > > In another part of the app I use the same (UTF16) text to set the > metadata of a line in a field. When the script gets the metadata > later, diacriticals and curly quotes are strange characters with very > high UTF numbers. > From dsc at swcp.com Mon Sep 9 20:23:40 2019 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott Consulting) Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2019 18:23:40 -0600 Subject: Merge and unicode In-Reply-To: <6e7b4204-d0c3-47a3-b50e-30a698918cf1@hyperactivesw.com> References: <98BD1F10-BB35-4B8E-9920-6472A88CBE2C@swcp.com> <6e7b4204-d0c3-47a3-b50e-30a698918cf1@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <85797641-3718-41EE-8B7A-4EDDCD598DC1@swcp.com> I think you are trying to think too much about the LC implementation of text. Maybe. Text in LC is an abstraction of a sequence of code points. Whether it is UTF16 or not is hidden to me. (mostly) So, get textDecode( binaryFromServer, "UTF-8" ) should put that into the correct form, if it is really UTF-8. A data (binary bytes) is interpreted as native encoding if one tries to use it as text. I recommend against this. I try to always textDecode() everything coming in, but I make exceptions at times for ASCII. I'm not sure what you mean by metadata. Are you referring to HTTP content-type? Sorry, if I am off on a bunny trail... Dar > On Sep 9, 2019, at 4:38 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > > It's UTF8 text from a server, which I textDecode to UTF16. When I use the UTF16 text in a merge, diacriticals and/or curly quotes get mangled. (Same with setting metadata on field text too.) > > On 9/9/19 4:16 PM, Dar Scott Consulting via use-livecode wrote: >> I'm not sure I understand. >> Do you mean "encoded to UTF-16"? In that case you should decode that to convert it to internal text. And then try merge. (Which still might have problems, I suppose.) >>> On Sep 9, 2019, at 12:08 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> It seems that the merge command doesn't respect unicode. Does anyone have a workaround? The text I'm inserting is already decoded to UTF16. >>> >>> -- >>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Sep 9 22:32:52 2019 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2019 21:32:52 -0500 Subject: Merge and unicode In-Reply-To: <85797641-3718-41EE-8B7A-4EDDCD598DC1@swcp.com> References: <98BD1F10-BB35-4B8E-9920-6472A88CBE2C@swcp.com> <6e7b4204-d0c3-47a3-b50e-30a698918cf1@hyperactivesw.com> <85797641-3718-41EE-8B7A-4EDDCD598DC1@swcp.com> Message-ID: <16d19044020.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Well, I've made some changes to the code since I started urlEncoding the text before merging so I'll check that again. Paul is right that unicode in htmltext needs to be in hex, but the numbers I'm getting back are very high (8,000+) and render in the field as strange pictographs. Elsewhere where there is no merge, curly quotes translate to the named quote or apostrophe entities and are correct. By metadata I mean the LC term (see the dictionary) that allows you to attach some text to a field text chunk. The metadata isn't displayed in the field but you can use it for anything you want. In my case the field is a list of clickable entries in a table of contents, each with its own metadata attached that provides a path to the stack and card the entry needs to open. When I use normal LC text as metadata, diacriticals aren't rendered correctly (curly quotes become question marks,) the path is therefore incorrect and the click goes nowhere. Since LC is supposed to be unicode throughout, I'd expect metadata to be compatible. The same text appears correctly when not used as metadata. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On September 9, 2019 7:25:28 PM Dar Scott Consulting via use-livecode wrote: > I think you are trying to think too much about the LC implementation of > text. Maybe. > > Text in LC is an abstraction of a sequence of code points. Whether it is > UTF16 or not is hidden to me. (mostly) > > So, > > get textDecode( binaryFromServer, "UTF-8" ) > > should put that into the correct form, if it is really UTF-8. > > A data (binary bytes) is interpreted as native encoding if one tries to use > it as text. I recommend against this. I try to always textDecode() > everything coming in, but I make exceptions at times for ASCII. > > I'm not sure what you mean by metadata. Are you referring to HTTP content-type? > > Sorry, if I am off on a bunny trail... > > Dar > >> On Sep 9, 2019, at 4:38 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode >> wrote: >> >> It's UTF8 text from a server, which I textDecode to UTF16. When I use the >> UTF16 text in a merge, diacriticals and/or curly quotes get mangled. (Same >> with setting metadata on field text too.) >> >> On 9/9/19 4:16 PM, Dar Scott Consulting via use-livecode wrote: >>> I'm not sure I understand. >>> Do you mean "encoded to UTF-16"? In that case you should decode that to >>> convert it to internal text. And then try merge. (Which still might have >>> problems, I suppose.) >>>> On Sep 9, 2019, at 12:08 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> It seems that the merge command doesn't respect unicode. Does anyone have a >>>> workaround? The text I'm inserting is already decoded to UTF16. >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >>>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> -- >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From gcanyon at gmail.com Mon Sep 9 22:57:16 2019 From: gcanyon at gmail.com (Geoff Canyon) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2019 09:57:16 +0700 Subject: 9.5 on Windows seems terribly unable to deal with fields full of text? In-Reply-To: References: <5686A97E-5836-4A61-9528-30C9E288C661@gmail.com> <3A7E352E-935F-4580-BFC2-1CC19AF6078D@gmail.com> Message-ID: <51883E61-D71E-4B67-87D8-10FADDC54998@gmail.com> I?ve now modified my stacks to include a closecard handler to clear the large field?s content when exiting. Stack is now much faster to work with and save ? far out of proportion to the size savings. From dsc at swcp.com Mon Sep 9 22:58:04 2019 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott Consulting) Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2019 20:58:04 -0600 Subject: Merge and unicode In-Reply-To: <16d19044020.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <98BD1F10-BB35-4B8E-9920-6472A88CBE2C@swcp.com> <6e7b4204-d0c3-47a3-b50e-30a698918cf1@hyperactivesw.com> <85797641-3718-41EE-8B7A-4EDDCD598DC1@swcp.com> <16d19044020.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <09B12A3D-3EA6-4903-AA49-1045C220E462@swcp.com> This quick check seems to work for me. on mouseup put "A" into field 1 set the metadata of char 1 of field 1 to "?" put the metadata of char 1 of field 1 after field 1 end mouseup > On Sep 9, 2019, at 8:32 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > > Well, I've made some changes to the code since I started urlEncoding the text before merging so I'll check that again. Paul is right that unicode in htmltext needs to be in hex, but the numbers I'm getting back are very high (8,000+) and render in the field as strange pictographs. Elsewhere where there is no merge, curly quotes translate to the named quote or apostrophe entities and are correct. > > By metadata I mean the LC term (see the dictionary) that allows you to attach some text to a field text chunk. The metadata isn't displayed in the field but you can use it for anything you want. In my case the field is a list of clickable entries in a table of contents, each with its own metadata attached that provides a path to the stack and card the entry needs to open. > > When I use normal LC text as metadata, diacriticals aren't rendered correctly (curly quotes become question marks,) the path is therefore incorrect and the click goes nowhere. > > Since LC is supposed to be unicode throughout, I'd expect metadata to be compatible. The same text appears correctly when not used as metadata. > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > On September 9, 2019 7:25:28 PM Dar Scott Consulting via use-livecode wrote: > >> I think you are trying to think too much about the LC implementation of text. Maybe. >> >> Text in LC is an abstraction of a sequence of code points. Whether it is UTF16 or not is hidden to me. (mostly) >> >> So, >> >> get textDecode( binaryFromServer, "UTF-8" ) >> >> should put that into the correct form, if it is really UTF-8. >> >> A data (binary bytes) is interpreted as native encoding if one tries to use it as text. I recommend against this. I try to always textDecode() everything coming in, but I make exceptions at times for ASCII. >> >> I'm not sure what you mean by metadata. Are you referring to HTTP content-type? >> >> Sorry, if I am off on a bunny trail... >> >> Dar >> >>> On Sep 9, 2019, at 4:38 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> It's UTF8 text from a server, which I textDecode to UTF16. When I use the UTF16 text in a merge, diacriticals and/or curly quotes get mangled. (Same with setting metadata on field text too.) >>> >>> On 9/9/19 4:16 PM, Dar Scott Consulting via use-livecode wrote: >>>> I'm not sure I understand. >>>> Do you mean "encoded to UTF-16"? In that case you should decode that to convert it to internal text. And then try merge. (Which still might have problems, I suppose.) >>>>> On Sep 9, 2019, at 12:08 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> It seems that the merge command doesn't respect unicode. Does anyone have a workaround? The text I'm inserting is already decoded to UTF16. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >>>>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dsc at swcp.com Tue Sep 10 00:25:23 2019 From: dsc at swcp.com (dsc at swcp.com) Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2019 22:25:23 -0600 Subject: Merge and unicode In-Reply-To: <09B12A3D-3EA6-4903-AA49-1045C220E462@swcp.com> References: <98BD1F10-BB35-4B8E-9920-6472A88CBE2C@swcp.com> <6e7b4204-d0c3-47a3-b50e-30a698918cf1@hyperactivesw.com> <85797641-3718-41EE-8B7A-4EDDCD598DC1@swcp.com> <16d19044020.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <09B12A3D-3EA6-4903-AA49-1045C220E462@swcp.com> Message-ID: And this, too, looks OK to me. on mouseup put empty into field 1 put "A" into field 1 get numToCodepoint(0x2200) & numToCodepoint(0x1040F) & "V-" set the metadata of char 1 of field 1 to it put the metadata of char 1 of field 1 after field 1 end mouseup I guess the problem is in the merge as you thought. I did notice in the dictionary that setting the metadata of a line is not the same as setting the metadata of all of the characters of the line. Dar Scott > On Sep 9, 2019, at 8:58 PM, Dar Scott Consulting via use-livecode wrote: > > This quick check seems to work for me. > > on mouseup > > put "A" into field 1 > > set the metadata of char 1 of field 1 to "?" > > put the metadata of char 1 of field 1 after field 1 > > end mouseup > > >> On Sep 9, 2019, at 8:32 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Well, I've made some changes to the code since I started urlEncoding the text before merging so I'll check that again. Paul is right that unicode in htmltext needs to be in hex, but the numbers I'm getting back are very high (8,000+) and render in the field as strange pictographs. Elsewhere where there is no merge, curly quotes translate to the named quote or apostrophe entities and are correct. >> >> By metadata I mean the LC term (see the dictionary) that allows you to attach some text to a field text chunk. The metadata isn't displayed in the field but you can use it for anything you want. In my case the field is a list of clickable entries in a table of contents, each with its own metadata attached that provides a path to the stack and card the entry needs to open. >> >> When I use normal LC text as metadata, diacriticals aren't rendered correctly (curly quotes become question marks,) the path is therefore incorrect and the click goes nowhere. >> >> Since LC is supposed to be unicode throughout, I'd expect metadata to be compatible. The same text appears correctly when not used as metadata. >> -- >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >> On September 9, 2019 7:25:28 PM Dar Scott Consulting via use-livecode wrote: >> >>> I think you are trying to think too much about the LC implementation of text. Maybe. >>> >>> Text in LC is an abstraction of a sequence of code points. Whether it is UTF16 or not is hidden to me. (mostly) >>> >>> So, >>> >>> get textDecode( binaryFromServer, "UTF-8" ) >>> >>> should put that into the correct form, if it is really UTF-8. >>> >>> A data (binary bytes) is interpreted as native encoding if one tries to use it as text. I recommend against this. I try to always textDecode() everything coming in, but I make exceptions at times for ASCII. >>> >>> I'm not sure what you mean by metadata. Are you referring to HTTP content-type? >>> >>> Sorry, if I am off on a bunny trail... >>> >>> Dar >>> >>>> On Sep 9, 2019, at 4:38 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >>>> >>>> It's UTF8 text from a server, which I textDecode to UTF16. When I use the UTF16 text in a merge, diacriticals and/or curly quotes get mangled. (Same with setting metadata on field text too.) >>>> >>>> On 9/9/19 4:16 PM, Dar Scott Consulting via use-livecode wrote: >>>>> I'm not sure I understand. >>>>> Do you mean "encoded to UTF-16"? In that case you should decode that to convert it to internal text. And then try merge. (Which still might have problems, I suppose.) >>>>>> On Sep 9, 2019, at 12:08 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> It seems that the merge command doesn't respect unicode. Does anyone have a workaround? The text I'm inserting is already decoded to UTF16. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >>>>>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >>>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From dsc at swcp.com Tue Sep 10 00:35:10 2019 From: dsc at swcp.com (dsc at swcp.com) Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2019 22:35:10 -0600 Subject: Merge and unicode In-Reply-To: References: <98BD1F10-BB35-4B8E-9920-6472A88CBE2C@swcp.com> <6e7b4204-d0c3-47a3-b50e-30a698918cf1@hyperactivesw.com> <85797641-3718-41EE-8B7A-4EDDCD598DC1@swcp.com> <16d19044020.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <09B12A3D-3EA6-4903-AA49-1045C220E462@swcp.com> Message-ID: <2E8EACC9-2203-40BC-B3B2-A9545760A6CD@swcp.com> I think I'm doing this wrong. This seems to work, too. on mouseup put empty into field 1 put numToCodepoint(0x2200) into x put numToCodepoint(0x1040F) & "V-" into y put merge(" ?{ [[x]] }? [[y]]") into field 1 end mouseup > On Sep 9, 2019, at 10:25 PM, dsc--- via use-livecode wrote: > > And this, too, looks OK to me. > > on mouseup > put empty into field 1 > put "A" into field 1 > get numToCodepoint(0x2200) & numToCodepoint(0x1040F) & "V-" > set the metadata of char 1 of field 1 to it > put the metadata of char 1 of field 1 after field 1 > end mouseup > > I guess the problem is in the merge as you thought. > > I did notice in the dictionary that setting the metadata of a line is not the same as setting the metadata of all of the characters of the line. > > Dar Scott > > >> On Sep 9, 2019, at 8:58 PM, Dar Scott Consulting via use-livecode wrote: >> >> This quick check seems to work for me. >> >> on mouseup >> >> put "A" into field 1 >> >> set the metadata of char 1 of field 1 to "?" >> >> put the metadata of char 1 of field 1 after field 1 >> >> end mouseup >> >> >>> On Sep 9, 2019, at 8:32 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> Well, I've made some changes to the code since I started urlEncoding the text before merging so I'll check that again. Paul is right that unicode in htmltext needs to be in hex, but the numbers I'm getting back are very high (8,000+) and render in the field as strange pictographs. Elsewhere where there is no merge, curly quotes translate to the named quote or apostrophe entities and are correct. >>> >>> By metadata I mean the LC term (see the dictionary) that allows you to attach some text to a field text chunk. The metadata isn't displayed in the field but you can use it for anything you want. In my case the field is a list of clickable entries in a table of contents, each with its own metadata attached that provides a path to the stack and card the entry needs to open. >>> >>> When I use normal LC text as metadata, diacriticals aren't rendered correctly (curly quotes become question marks,) the path is therefore incorrect and the click goes nowhere. >>> >>> Since LC is supposed to be unicode throughout, I'd expect metadata to be compatible. The same text appears correctly when not used as metadata. >>> -- >>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >>> On September 9, 2019 7:25:28 PM Dar Scott Consulting via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>>> I think you are trying to think too much about the LC implementation of text. Maybe. >>>> >>>> Text in LC is an abstraction of a sequence of code points. Whether it is UTF16 or not is hidden to me. (mostly) >>>> >>>> So, >>>> >>>> get textDecode( binaryFromServer, "UTF-8" ) >>>> >>>> should put that into the correct form, if it is really UTF-8. >>>> >>>> A data (binary bytes) is interpreted as native encoding if one tries to use it as text. I recommend against this. I try to always textDecode() everything coming in, but I make exceptions at times for ASCII. >>>> >>>> I'm not sure what you mean by metadata. Are you referring to HTTP content-type? >>>> >>>> Sorry, if I am off on a bunny trail... >>>> >>>> Dar >>>> >>>>> On Sep 9, 2019, at 4:38 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >>>>> >>>>> It's UTF8 text from a server, which I textDecode to UTF16. When I use the UTF16 text in a merge, diacriticals and/or curly quotes get mangled. (Same with setting metadata on field text too.) >>>>> >>>>> On 9/9/19 4:16 PM, Dar Scott Consulting via use-livecode wrote: >>>>>> I'm not sure I understand. >>>>>> Do you mean "encoded to UTF-16"? In that case you should decode that to convert it to internal text. And then try merge. (Which still might have problems, I suppose.) >>>>>>> On Sep 9, 2019, at 12:08 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It seems that the merge command doesn't respect unicode. Does anyone have a workaround? The text I'm inserting is already decoded to UTF16. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >>>>>>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >>>>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Tue Sep 10 01:09:53 2019 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2019 00:09:53 -0500 Subject: 9.5 on Windows seems terribly unable to deal with fields full of text? In-Reply-To: <51883E61-D71E-4B67-87D8-10FADDC54998@gmail.com> References: <5686A97E-5836-4A61-9528-30C9E288C661@gmail.com> <3A7E352E-935F-4580-BFC2-1CC19AF6078D@gmail.com> <51883E61-D71E-4B67-87D8-10FADDC54998@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1fc43821-a92c-a608-61e4-589489ec7276@hyperactivesw.com> On 9/9/19 9:57 PM, Geoff Canyon via use-livecode wrote: > I?ve now modified my stacks to include a closecard handler to clear the large field?s content when exiting. > > Stack is now much faster to work with and save ? far out of proportion to the size savings. > I noticed something similar today on the Mac. I was testing a function that returned 1.3MB of data to the message box. I edited the script and it was like typing in molasses. When I deleted the text I'd left sitting in the message box everything kicked back up to normal speed. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From johnthejocker at yahoo.it Tue Sep 10 04:15:18 2019 From: johnthejocker at yahoo.it (Giovanni) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2019 10:15:18 +0200 Subject: Weird behavior for modal stacks and answer dialogs In-Reply-To: References: <902f6d3e-cb79-85a6-b165-5f191c911a16@researchware.com> <5E623588-9E66-4A63-BECA-E460B4196C67@yahoo.it> Message-ID: Hi Mark, thank you for highlighting the 14275 report. I can confirm the Spotify ?interference? on Yosemite and Sierra. It seems to be ininfluent on latest version like Mojave. I want to underline that this wrong behavior is present also in the executables, that is the real problem. Is there a way to understand what?s going on with 3rd part software? > Il giorno 09/set/2019, alle ore 17:44, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode ha scritto: > > On 2019-09-09 16:16, Giovanni via use-livecode wrote: >> Hi everybody, >> thanks for feedback. >> I think that the ones suggested cannot be considered as a solutions >> nor a workarounds. >> If I am working on an application with thousands (literally) of >> answer/ask dialogs and modal called windows I cannot review all my >> code to find a way to do something that the engine is called to do on >> its own, don?t you think? >> Anyway the ?lock messages? can be used with answer/ask dialog but not >> with modal windows that are intended to be used by the user. >> Moreover as the modal stack behavior is correct on Windows and seems >> to be correct on latest MacOS versions I found really strange to >> garbage my code to workaround an issue that, in my opinion, can be >> classified as a bug. > > This sounds like > - the > bug appears to be triggered when certain other apps are running but we have > yet to be able to find out *why* these other apps have an effect on LC :( > >> During my investigation I found an interesting thing: starting >> QuickTime to produce a screencast the app starts working properly even >> without closing/restarting it. Closing QuickTime immediately >> reintroduce the problem. This sounds like QuickTime uses a system >> library that LC should use but doesn?t. Can someone give an hint about >> this?! > > That is intriguing - the fact that QT makes LC's modal windows work correctly > again is potentially quite a useful discovery. Do the machines which exhibit > the bug have any 'always running' software (e.g. like Spotify as suggested > in the above bug). > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > > -- > Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ > LiveCode: Everyone can create apps > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Tue Sep 10 04:29:04 2019 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2019 10:29:04 +0200 Subject: 9.5 on Windows seems terribly unable to deal with fields full of text? In-Reply-To: <1fc43821-a92c-a608-61e4-589489ec7276@hyperactivesw.com> References: <5686A97E-5836-4A61-9528-30C9E288C661@gmail.com> <3A7E352E-935F-4580-BFC2-1CC19AF6078D@gmail.com> <51883E61-D71E-4B67-87D8-10FADDC54998@gmail.com> <1fc43821-a92c-a608-61e4-589489ec7276@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <4425B1C8-DA27-44AC-BE0C-A2757F785894@m-r-d.de> There?s already a bug report from Mark Talluto about this from 15.08.2018 https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=21497 describing exact this problem. And he noted also that this is "extra problematic for Windows systems." Matthias > Am 10.09.2019 um 07:09 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode : > > On 9/9/19 9:57 PM, Geoff Canyon via use-livecode wrote: >> I?ve now modified my stacks to include a closecard handler to clear the large field?s content when exiting. >> Stack is now much faster to work with and save ? far out of proportion to the size savings. >> > > I noticed something similar today on the Mac. I was testing a function that returned 1.3MB of data to the message box. I edited the script and it was like typing in molasses. When I deleted the text I'd left sitting in the message box everything kicked back up to normal speed. > > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode Matthias Rebbe free tools for Livecoders: InstaMaker WinSignMaker Mac From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Sep 10 10:36:51 2019 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2019 14:36:51 +0000 Subject: Merge and unicode In-Reply-To: <85797641-3718-41EE-8B7A-4EDDCD598DC1@swcp.com> References: <98BD1F10-BB35-4B8E-9920-6472A88CBE2C@swcp.com> <6e7b4204-d0c3-47a3-b50e-30a698918cf1@hyperactivesw.com> <85797641-3718-41EE-8B7A-4EDDCD598DC1@swcp.com> Message-ID: <9817B53C-C389-4440-BFD4-A4CFB999EF13@iotecdigital.com> Trust me it's better than a feral gander persuit. Bob S > On Sep 9, 2019, at 17:23 , Dar Scott Consulting via use-livecode wrote: > > Sorry, if I am off on a bunny trail... > > Dar From dsc at swcp.com Tue Sep 10 13:04:08 2019 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott Consulting) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2019 11:04:08 -0600 Subject: Merge and unicode In-Reply-To: <9817B53C-C389-4440-BFD4-A4CFB999EF13@iotecdigital.com> References: <98BD1F10-BB35-4B8E-9920-6472A88CBE2C@swcp.com> <6e7b4204-d0c3-47a3-b50e-30a698918cf1@hyperactivesw.com> <85797641-3718-41EE-8B7A-4EDDCD598DC1@swcp.com> <9817B53C-C389-4440-BFD4-A4CFB999EF13@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <66DC24E1-62AB-4CD1-95C5-C96E8C960B93@swcp.com> Trusting... Also, interpreting Latin-1 as UTF-8 can generate some weird characters and lots of ?-diamond symbols. > On Sep 10, 2019, at 8:36 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > > Trust me it's better than a feral gander persuit. > > Bob S > > >> On Sep 9, 2019, at 17:23 , Dar Scott Consulting via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Sorry, if I am off on a bunny trail... >> >> Dar > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From dsc at swcp.com Tue Sep 10 14:04:41 2019 From: dsc at swcp.com (dsc at swcp.com) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2019 12:04:41 -0600 Subject: Merge and unicode In-Reply-To: <66DC24E1-62AB-4CD1-95C5-C96E8C960B93@swcp.com> References: <98BD1F10-BB35-4B8E-9920-6472A88CBE2C@swcp.com> <6e7b4204-d0c3-47a3-b50e-30a698918cf1@hyperactivesw.com> <85797641-3718-41EE-8B7A-4EDDCD598DC1@swcp.com> <9817B53C-C389-4440-BFD4-A4CFB999EF13@iotecdigital.com> <66DC24E1-62AB-4CD1-95C5-C96E8C960B93@swcp.com> Message-ID: <00375516-182D-419C-92A5-D555C2B54E62@swcp.com> Jacque, these are my latest thoughts as far as possible problems. 1. Dar is very confused and off in the wrong direction. Use big stick. 2. Binary data is in an 8-bit char set encoding causing problems with UTF-8 decode. Check encoding. 3. Field, line and character metadata are interfering. Clear all, then set and get consistently. 4. Merge is not handling binary data as text. Use textDecode first. Dar Scott Mad Scientist > On Sep 10, 2019, at 11:04 AM, Dar Scott Consulting via use-livecode wrote: > > Trusting... > > Also, interpreting Latin-1 as UTF-8 can generate some weird characters and lots of ?-diamond symbols. > >> On Sep 10, 2019, at 8:36 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Trust me it's better than a feral gander persuit. >> >> Bob S >> >> >>> On Sep 9, 2019, at 17:23 , Dar Scott Consulting via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> Sorry, if I am off on a bunny trail... >>> >>> Dar >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Tue Sep 10 14:14:40 2019 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2019 13:14:40 -0500 Subject: Merge and unicode In-Reply-To: <2E8EACC9-2203-40BC-B3B2-A9545760A6CD@swcp.com> References: <98BD1F10-BB35-4B8E-9920-6472A88CBE2C@swcp.com> <6e7b4204-d0c3-47a3-b50e-30a698918cf1@hyperactivesw.com> <85797641-3718-41EE-8B7A-4EDDCD598DC1@swcp.com> <16d19044020.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <09B12A3D-3EA6-4903-AA49-1045C220E462@swcp.com> <2E8EACC9-2203-40BC-B3B2-A9545760A6CD@swcp.com> Message-ID: I extracted an example. The main issue is curly quotes. The text came from FileMaker in UTF8, which I textDecode to UTF16. You can assume that all text is LC native throughout the app. Here is the template I use for merge:

[[tSECTION]] [[tCONCEPT]]

In the field, this text is displayed accurately with curly quotes: The New Testament Scholar ?Dare to reason!? Here is a result of the merge:

The New Testament Scholar “Dare to reason!”

Notice that the displayed text uses entity names (&ldquo, &rdquo) while the metadata which was created from the same text block as the field text has changed the quotes to two numbers in the high 5000s with no difference between left and right quotes. I was unable to paste the actual text here, as my mail client refused to render it, but the two numerical references appear as a single pictograph in LC's variable watcher, and do not match the card path I need, which in this case is: EN07_The New Testament Scholar?Dare to reason!? Maybe you can make sense of this? I've written an ugly workaround that pieces together the reference I need, but it would be better if I could just use the metadata. The metadata works fine as long as there are no quotes. On 9/9/19 11:35 PM, dsc--- via use-livecode wrote: > I think I'm doing this wrong. This seems to work, too. > > on mouseup > put empty into field 1 > put numToCodepoint(0x2200) into x > put numToCodepoint(0x1040F) & "V-" into y > put merge(" ?{ [[x]] }? [[y]]") into field 1 > end mouseup > > >> On Sep 9, 2019, at 10:25 PM, dsc--- via use-livecode wrote: >> >> And this, too, looks OK to me. >> >> on mouseup >> put empty into field 1 >> put "A" into field 1 >> get numToCodepoint(0x2200) & numToCodepoint(0x1040F) & "V-" >> set the metadata of char 1 of field 1 to it >> put the metadata of char 1 of field 1 after field 1 >> end mouseup >> >> I guess the problem is in the merge as you thought. >> >> I did notice in the dictionary that setting the metadata of a line is not the same as setting the metadata of all of the characters of the line. >> >> Dar Scott >> >> >>> On Sep 9, 2019, at 8:58 PM, Dar Scott Consulting via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> This quick check seems to work for me. >>> >>> on mouseup >>> >>> put "A" into field 1 >>> >>> set the metadata of char 1 of field 1 to "?" >>> >>> put the metadata of char 1 of field 1 after field 1 >>> >>> end mouseup >>> >>> >>>> On Sep 9, 2019, at 8:32 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >>>> >>>> Well, I've made some changes to the code since I started urlEncoding the text before merging so I'll check that again. Paul is right that unicode in htmltext needs to be in hex, but the numbers I'm getting back are very high (8,000+) and render in the field as strange pictographs. Elsewhere where there is no merge, curly quotes translate to the named quote or apostrophe entities and are correct. >>>> >>>> By metadata I mean the LC term (see the dictionary) that allows you to attach some text to a field text chunk. The metadata isn't displayed in the field but you can use it for anything you want. In my case the field is a list of clickable entries in a table of contents, each with its own metadata attached that provides a path to the stack and card the entry needs to open. >>>> >>>> When I use normal LC text as metadata, diacriticals aren't rendered correctly (curly quotes become question marks,) the path is therefore incorrect and the click goes nowhere. >>>> >>>> Since LC is supposed to be unicode throughout, I'd expect metadata to be compatible. The same text appears correctly when not used as metadata. >>>> -- >>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >>>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >>>> On September 9, 2019 7:25:28 PM Dar Scott Consulting via use-livecode wrote: >>>> >>>>> I think you are trying to think too much about the LC implementation of text. Maybe. >>>>> >>>>> Text in LC is an abstraction of a sequence of code points. Whether it is UTF16 or not is hidden to me. (mostly) >>>>> >>>>> So, >>>>> >>>>> get textDecode( binaryFromServer, "UTF-8" ) >>>>> >>>>> should put that into the correct form, if it is really UTF-8. >>>>> >>>>> A data (binary bytes) is interpreted as native encoding if one tries to use it as text. I recommend against this. I try to always textDecode() everything coming in, but I make exceptions at times for ASCII. >>>>> >>>>> I'm not sure what you mean by metadata. Are you referring to HTTP content-type? >>>>> >>>>> Sorry, if I am off on a bunny trail... >>>>> >>>>> Dar >>>>> >>>>>> On Sep 9, 2019, at 4:38 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> It's UTF8 text from a server, which I textDecode to UTF16. When I use the UTF16 text in a merge, diacriticals and/or curly quotes get mangled. (Same with setting metadata on field text too.) >>>>>> >>>>>> On 9/9/19 4:16 PM, Dar Scott Consulting via use-livecode wrote: >>>>>>> I'm not sure I understand. >>>>>>> Do you mean "encoded to UTF-16"? In that case you should decode that to convert it to internal text. And then try merge. (Which still might have problems, I suppose.) >>>>>>>> On Sep 9, 2019, at 12:08 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It seems that the merge command doesn't respect unicode. Does anyone have a workaround? The text I'm inserting is already decoded to UTF16. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >>>>>>>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Tue Sep 10 14:47:01 2019 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2019 13:47:01 -0500 Subject: Merge and unicode In-Reply-To: <00375516-182D-419C-92A5-D555C2B54E62@swcp.com> References: <98BD1F10-BB35-4B8E-9920-6472A88CBE2C@swcp.com> <6e7b4204-d0c3-47a3-b50e-30a698918cf1@hyperactivesw.com> <85797641-3718-41EE-8B7A-4EDDCD598DC1@swcp.com> <9817B53C-C389-4440-BFD4-A4CFB999EF13@iotecdigital.com> <66DC24E1-62AB-4CD1-95C5-C96E8C960B93@swcp.com> <00375516-182D-419C-92A5-D555C2B54E62@swcp.com> Message-ID: :) 1. Jacque is very confused too, but is afraid of big sticks. 2. Encoding should be identical throughout. I'm working with a large text block, pulling out sections to create a list. All data is retrieved from othe same variable, which is UTF16 native LC text. 3. The metadata is only set at the "paragraph" level, which I need instead of "line" because there is a soft return in each entry. 4. I did try to textDecode the metadata, but since it was already decoded in the source, decoding came out as garbage. I even tried encoding it too, knowing it wouldn't work, and I was right. Solution: urlEncode the metadata before merging, and urlDecode after retrieval. When my example is urlEncoded it becomes a simple string: PP04_The+%D2Mystery%D3+of+Marriage I suppose anything that makes ascii out of the text would work, like base64. On 9/10/19 1:04 PM, dsc--- via use-livecode wrote: > Jacque, these are my latest thoughts as far as possible problems. > > 1. Dar is very confused and off in the wrong direction. Use big stick. > 2. Binary data is in an 8-bit char set encoding causing problems with UTF-8 decode. Check encoding. > 3. Field, line and character metadata are interfering. Clear all, then set and get consistently. > 4. Merge is not handling binary data as text. Use textDecode first. > > Dar Scott > Mad Scientist -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Tue Sep 10 15:32:53 2019 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2019 14:32:53 -0500 Subject: Merge and unicode In-Reply-To: References: <98BD1F10-BB35-4B8E-9920-6472A88CBE2C@swcp.com> <6e7b4204-d0c3-47a3-b50e-30a698918cf1@hyperactivesw.com> <85797641-3718-41EE-8B7A-4EDDCD598DC1@swcp.com> <9817B53C-C389-4440-BFD4-A4CFB999EF13@iotecdigital.com> <66DC24E1-62AB-4CD1-95C5-C96E8C960B93@swcp.com> <00375516-182D-419C-92A5-D555C2B54E62@swcp.com> Message-ID: <2c0dd775-8c2b-fe3c-1096-0bd727056a33@hyperactivesw.com> On 9/10/19 1:47 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > :) > 1. Jacque is very confused too, but is afraid of big sticks. > 2. Encoding should be identical throughout. I'm working with a large > text block, pulling out sections to create a list. All data is retrieved > from othe same variable, which is UTF16 native LC text. > 3. The metadata is only set at the "paragraph" level, which I need > instead of "line" because there is a soft return in each entry. > 4. I did try to textDecode the metadata, but since it was already > decoded in the source, decoding came out as garbage. I even tried > encoding it too, knowing it wouldn't work, and I was right. > > Solution: urlEncode the metadata before merging, and urlDecode after > retrieval. When my example is urlEncoded it becomes a simple string: > PP04_The+%D2Mystery%D3+of+Marriage Blah. URLEncode/decode works fine on desktop (Mac) but on Android it fails. For some reason on Android I get this: PP04_The%2B%253FMystery%253F%2Bof%2BMarriage All tests are in LC 9.5 so there should be no difference, right? -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From brahma at hindu.org Tue Sep 10 15:56:23 2019 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2019 19:56:23 +0000 Subject: Stop Integer Coercion to Scientific Notation in JSON Message-ID: <3042B1E3-9D73-4970-B0FE-F2ACF4775800@hindu.org> setPref "preferences/global/lastRunDate", (the seconds) # e.g 1568144731 put getPref ("preferences/global/lastRunDate") into tLastRunDate returns {"preferences": {"global": {"lastRunDate": 1.56814e+09}, [snip] # we are using jsonImport put jsonImport(tJSON) into tPreferencesA # handle data and put jsonExport(tPreferencesA) into tJSON. # thereafter my simple arithmetic functions like put (tLastRunDate + 3600) into 1HourLater # now throw a "left operand" error.... How can we prevent the coercion of simple integer notation to scientific? Why is it needed for simple 10 digit number is beyond me. There is nothing about automatic coercion in the dictionary. BR From benr at cogapp.com Tue Sep 10 16:14:45 2019 From: benr at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2019 21:14:45 +0100 Subject: Using LiveCode & AppleScript to make mouse selection in another Mac application In-Reply-To: References: <8a9d74a6-0c89-577b-a9ef-4ca6a8283c45@cogapp.com> Message-ID: Hi Tom and Martin, Thanks for the responses. That's where I'm at the moment; the problem is that I AFAICT I can click at a position using System Events; but I can't click at one location and release at another. The issue is that I'm trying to make a rectangular selection, encompassing a number of elements; rather than trying to select an actual element. This is actually to crop each page of a many page PDF, using the rectangular selection tool in either Preview or PDFpen. (AFAICT ImageMagick is no good because it rasterises PDF pages before cropping them, whereas I want to retain all the PDF fidelity goodness, but just mask each page.) I can click: but I can't mouse down in one location, and release it in another. Ben On 05/09/2019 20:59, Tom Glod via use-livecode wrote: > I dunno if this works.... but you can try > > do myscript as "Applescript" > > abd your myscript can be > > tell application "System Events" > click at {123,456}end tell > > I'm currently working on debugging a tool that uses applescript to > send keystrokes..and i'm finding it inconsistent ...but it could just > be me, so for now I won't say that its the applescript functionality. > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 5, 2019 at 2:38 PM Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> As the title says... >> >> I had a recollection that it was possible to construct a tool in LiveCode >> that >> would use AppleScript, System Events, and the accessibility framework to >> perform actions on another (not naturally scriptable) app. >> >> I can do menu items, I can do keystrokes - but can I move the mouse? Or >> more >> to the point, can I move the mouse to a location, then click and drag to a >> new >> location? >> >> Automator appears to be able to do this as a recording, which works once >> as a >> single step - but ever since hangs on playback (amusingly, it moves the >> mouse >> to the first point and then refuses to let it be moved anywhere else - >> pulling >> it back if it is - the only escape seems to be to use the keyboard to open >> a >> terminal and kill Automator). >> >> Did I dream this, or is it possible? >> >> TIA, >> >> Ben >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From dsc at swcp.com Tue Sep 10 16:27:44 2019 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott Consulting) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2019 14:27:44 -0600 Subject: Merge and unicode In-Reply-To: <2c0dd775-8c2b-fe3c-1096-0bd727056a33@hyperactivesw.com> References: <98BD1F10-BB35-4B8E-9920-6472A88CBE2C@swcp.com> <6e7b4204-d0c3-47a3-b50e-30a698918cf1@hyperactivesw.com> <85797641-3718-41EE-8B7A-4EDDCD598DC1@swcp.com> <9817B53C-C389-4440-BFD4-A4CFB999EF13@iotecdigital.com> <66DC24E1-62AB-4CD1-95C5-C96E8C960B93@swcp.com> <00375516-182D-419C-92A5-D555C2B54E62@swcp.com> <2c0dd775-8c2b-fe3c-1096-0bd727056a33@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: I looked at this some more on OS X. I'm not seeing a problem with merge. And I'm not seeing a problem with metadata per se, I don't think. But I am seeing a problem with setting metadata with htmlText. > On Sep 10, 2019, at 1:32 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > > On 9/10/19 1:47 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >> :) >> 1. Jacque is very confused too, but is afraid of big sticks. >> 2. Encoding should be identical throughout. I'm working with a large text block, pulling out sections to create a list. All data is retrieved from othe same variable, which is UTF16 native LC text. >> 3. The metadata is only set at the "paragraph" level, which I need instead of "line" because there is a soft return in each entry. >> 4. I did try to textDecode the metadata, but since it was already decoded in the source, decoding came out as garbage. I even tried encoding it too, knowing it wouldn't work, and I was right. >> Solution: urlEncode the metadata before merging, and urlDecode after retrieval. When my example is urlEncoded it becomes a simple string: >> PP04_The+%D2Mystery%D3+of+Marriage > > Blah. URLEncode/decode works fine on desktop (Mac) but on Android it fails. For some reason on Android I get this: > PP04_The%2B%253FMystery%253F%2Bof%2BMarriage > > All tests are in LC 9.5 so there should be no difference, right? > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dsc at swcp.com Tue Sep 10 16:38:53 2019 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott Consulting) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2019 14:38:53 -0600 Subject: Merge and unicode In-Reply-To: References: <98BD1F10-BB35-4B8E-9920-6472A88CBE2C@swcp.com> <6e7b4204-d0c3-47a3-b50e-30a698918cf1@hyperactivesw.com> <85797641-3718-41EE-8B7A-4EDDCD598DC1@swcp.com> <9817B53C-C389-4440-BFD4-A4CFB999EF13@iotecdigital.com> <66DC24E1-62AB-4CD1-95C5-C96E8C960B93@swcp.com> <00375516-182D-419C-92A5-D555C2B54E62@swcp.com> Message-ID: <5DC1F759-5AF6-4929-8A79-7F1BB61C6BF1@swcp.com> Because htmlText does not set the metadata to interesting characters, you can consider this workaround: Change the quotes in tCONCEPT to “ and ”. And, thus, in tMETADATA. > On Sep 10, 2019, at 12:47 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > > :) > 1. Jacque is very confused too, but is afraid of big sticks. > 2. Encoding should be identical throughout. I'm working with a large text block, pulling out sections to create a list. All data is retrieved from othe same variable, which is UTF16 native LC text. > 3. The metadata is only set at the "paragraph" level, which I need instead of "line" because there is a soft return in each entry. > 4. I did try to textDecode the metadata, but since it was already decoded in the source, decoding came out as garbage. I even tried encoding it too, knowing it wouldn't work, and I was right. > > Solution: urlEncode the metadata before merging, and urlDecode after retrieval. When my example is urlEncoded it becomes a simple string: > PP04_The+%D2Mystery%D3+of+Marriage > > I suppose anything that makes ascii out of the text would work, like base64. > > On 9/10/19 1:04 PM, dsc--- via use-livecode wrote: >> Jacque, these are my latest thoughts as far as possible problems. >> 1. Dar is very confused and off in the wrong direction. Use big stick. >> 2. Binary data is in an 8-bit char set encoding causing problems with UTF-8 decode. Check encoding. >> 3. Field, line and character metadata are interfering. Clear all, then set and get consistently. >> 4. Merge is not handling binary data as text. Use textDecode first. >> Dar Scott >> Mad Scientist > > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Sep 10 17:52:26 2019 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2019 21:52:26 +0000 Subject: Using LiveCode & AppleScript to make mouse selection in another Mac application In-Reply-To: References: <8a9d74a6-0c89-577b-a9ef-4ca6a8283c45@cogapp.com> Message-ID: <6FAEEC51-0D64-498E-8F95-785577ED6A6F@iotecdigital.com> You need a Macro program. I like Keyboard Maestro. Bob S > On Sep 10, 2019, at 13:14 , Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi Tom and Martin, > > Thanks for the responses. That's where I'm at the moment; the problem is that I AFAICT I can click at a position using System Events; but I can't click at one location and release at another. The issue is that I'm trying to make a rectangular selection, encompassing a number of elements; rather than trying to select an actual element. > > This is actually to crop each page of a many page PDF, using the rectangular selection tool in either Preview or PDFpen. (AFAICT ImageMagick is no good because it rasterises PDF pages before cropping them, whereas I want to retain all the PDF fidelity goodness, but just mask each page.) > > I can click: but I can't mouse down in one location, and release it in another. > > Ben > > On 05/09/2019 20:59, Tom Glod via use-livecode wrote: >> I dunno if this works.... but you can try >> do myscript as "Applescript" >> abd your myscript can be >> tell application "System Events" >> click at {123,456}end tell >> I'm currently working on debugging a tool that uses applescript to >> send keystrokes..and i'm finding it inconsistent ...but it could just >> be me, so for now I won't say that its the applescript functionality. >> On Thu, Sep 5, 2019 at 2:38 PM Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> As the title says... >>> >>> I had a recollection that it was possible to construct a tool in LiveCode >>> that >>> would use AppleScript, System Events, and the accessibility framework to >>> perform actions on another (not naturally scriptable) app. >>> >>> I can do menu items, I can do keystrokes - but can I move the mouse? Or >>> more >>> to the point, can I move the mouse to a location, then click and drag to a >>> new >>> location? >>> >>> Automator appears to be able to do this as a recording, which works once >>> as a >>> single step - but ever since hangs on playback (amusingly, it moves the >>> mouse >>> to the first point and then refuses to let it be moved anywhere else - >>> pulling >>> it back if it is - the only escape seems to be to use the keyboard to open >>> a >>> terminal and kill Automator). >>> >>> Did I dream this, or is it possible? >>> >>> TIA, >>> >>> Ben >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From hh at hyperhh.de Tue Sep 10 18:25:51 2019 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2019 00:25:51 +0200 Subject: OSTimeInfo_105 Message-ID: OSTimeInfo_105 is #111 of the Raspi stacks collection. What it does: Shows the uptime (since last reboot) and shows last reboot, last shutdown and last uptime. Works with LC 6/7/8/9 on Mac, Win 7/10, linux (Ubuntu 1904 flavours) and with LC 6.5.1/7.0.4 on Raspi 3/4 running Raspbian or Lubuntu. Read more here http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?p=183161#p183161 From dochawk at gmail.com Tue Sep 10 18:27:48 2019 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2019 15:27:48 -0700 Subject: making outputted pdf background transparent [ was:high resolution when printing to pdf, ...] In-Reply-To: <44E2116D-B263-4B61-B414-54E1003FDF4D@gmail.com> References: <01872BE5-DC40-4E3B-9392-77A3929C0694@gmail.com> <06CD497D-1231-427F-9D68-D5CFD11FA0B9@gmail.com> <15502b9068566bc3cd3a9167d2ea54ac@livecode.com> <44E2116D-B263-4B61-B414-54E1003FDF4D@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1ADB7080-B5CF-4CA3-9D2E-20D10CA5C7CB@gmail.com> I?ve managed to make overlay of pdfs work with PyPDF2. Now I have the problem that livecode outputs a background color to the pdfs I make. Even if I et the background color of my card, the groups, etc. to empty, I still get a grey background, instead of a transparency. This means that when I overlay them, the supposedly transparent background overwrites everything else :( This is another showstopper. Is there a way to control this? Among other things, it means that a watermark can?t be made . . . ? Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. The Hawkins Law Firm 3430 E. Flamingo Rd. Suite 232 Las Vegas, NV 89121 (702) 508-8462 From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Tue Sep 10 23:45:17 2019 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2019 22:45:17 -0500 Subject: Merge and unicode In-Reply-To: References: <98BD1F10-BB35-4B8E-9920-6472A88CBE2C@swcp.com> <6e7b4204-d0c3-47a3-b50e-30a698918cf1@hyperactivesw.com> <85797641-3718-41EE-8B7A-4EDDCD598DC1@swcp.com> <9817B53C-C389-4440-BFD4-A4CFB999EF13@iotecdigital.com> <66DC24E1-62AB-4CD1-95C5-C96E8C960B93@swcp.com> <00375516-182D-419C-92A5-D555C2B54E62@swcp.com> <2c0dd775-8c2b-fe3c-1096-0bd727056a33@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <2c8fccac-d992-4078-4b26-e0864b21398e@hyperactivesw.com> I wondered about using htmltext in the merge too, but before I started using merge I was setting the properties one by one in a handler. Here's part of my original handler, where pResults is a list of lines that match search criteria: repeat for each line l in pResults put item 1 of l & tLineBreak & char 6 to -1 of item 2 of l &cr after tList end repeat lock screen put tList into fld "searchResults" repeat with x = 1 to the num of lines in fld "searchResults" set the leftIndent of paragraph x of fld "searchResults" to 10 set the spaceBelow of paragraph x of fld "searchResults" to 20 set the metadata of paragraph x of fld "searchResults" to line x of pResults set the textcolor of char 1 to offset(tLineBreak,line x of fld "searchResults") of line x of fld "searchResults" to tHiliteColor set the textsize of char 1 to offset(tLineBreak,line x of fld "searchResults") of line x of fld "searchResults" to 16 end repeat unlock screen The metadata still came out wrong. It also took a long time if there were many lines, due to all the field access, so I switched over to merge to create htmltext. I'll try the replacement method you mentioned in another post. Thanks for chiming in here. On 9/10/19 3:27 PM, Dar Scott Consulting via use-livecode wrote: > I looked at this some more on OS X. I'm not seeing a problem with merge. And I'm not seeing a problem with metadata per se, I don't think. But I am seeing a problem with setting metadata with htmlText. > > >> On Sep 10, 2019, at 1:32 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >> >> On 9/10/19 1:47 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >>> :) >>> 1. Jacque is very confused too, but is afraid of big sticks. >>> 2. Encoding should be identical throughout. I'm working with a large text block, pulling out sections to create a list. All data is retrieved from othe same variable, which is UTF16 native LC text. >>> 3. The metadata is only set at the "paragraph" level, which I need instead of "line" because there is a soft return in each entry. >>> 4. I did try to textDecode the metadata, but since it was already decoded in the source, decoding came out as garbage. I even tried encoding it too, knowing it wouldn't work, and I was right. >>> Solution: urlEncode the metadata before merging, and urlDecode after retrieval. When my example is urlEncoded it becomes a simple string: >>> PP04_The+%D2Mystery%D3+of+Marriage >> >> Blah. URLEncode/decode works fine on desktop (Mac) but on Android it fails. For some reason on Android I get this: >> PP04_The%2B%253FMystery%253F%2Bof%2BMarriage >> >> All tests are in LC 9.5 so there should be no difference, right? >> -- >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From harrison at all-auctions.com Wed Sep 11 00:28:23 2019 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison) Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2019 00:28:23 -0400 Subject: Using LiveCode & AppleScript to make mouse selection in another Mac application In-Reply-To: <6FAEEC51-0D64-498E-8F95-785577ED6A6F@iotecdigital.com> References: <8a9d74a6-0c89-577b-a9ef-4ca6a8283c45@cogapp.com> <6FAEEC51-0D64-498E-8F95-785577ED6A6F@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <109C0FAD-75A5-490C-B537-8D0258E63C07@all-auctions.com> Hi Bob, Thanks for telling us about Keyboard Maestro! I used to use Quikeys for Mac for a long time, but they haven?t updated it for quite some time and I was hoping to find a substitute. It looks like Keyboard Maestro is like Quikeys on Steroids! Thanks again, Rick > On Sep 10, 2019, at 5:52 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > > You need a Macro program. I like Keyboard Maestro. > > Bob S From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Sep 11 01:28:20 2019 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2019 22:28:20 -0700 Subject: Merge and unicode Message-ID: <79ps3rof16ej1qnsj1k89cn0.1568179700734@email.lge.com> I'll wager using a styledText array for this will be fun to write and will perform very well.Richard GaskinFourth World Systems From preid at reidit.co.uk Wed Sep 11 01:57:08 2019 From: preid at reidit.co.uk (Peter Reid) Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2019 06:57:08 +0100 Subject: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1FC09A8F-40E4-48F3-BAFD-2C323C73D812@reidit.co.uk> I've been reading the responses to my original posting with interest. My thoughts are as follows: 1. Matthias Rebbe's tutorial and helper stack seem to be excellent and appear to be the best way of complying with Apple's requirements, for now. Let's hope that Matthias can maintain this as Apple move the goalposts over time! If Matthias is unable to sustain these aids I'd hope that the LC mothership would adopt them. 2. A lot of the apps I develop are used by immediate friends and family (and a tiny circle of customers). They are private developments for use in closed communities. Apple have no right to be involved in these and the extended development cycle caused by their involvement is just unnecessary pain. 3. If Apple's measures really did provide bullet-proof protection the pain could be justified given the gain. However we know that this protection process is continuous and it becomes more and more onerous over time whilst still providing partial protection for a limited time. 4. If the Apple measures were a simple switchable setting I could switch them off whilst I check the user experience for a new user. Then I could switch the features back on to see the fully Apple-ised experience. As it is now, using the current Catalina beta on my development Mac, I see no blocking or warnings. So I've no way of testing the user experience on my development Mac. I have to find another Mac to act as my newbie user. Even then if such a Mac has been a previous newbie, how do you neutralise it to relive the newbie experience? 5. The $100 charge each year is inexcusable. Basically Apple are saying "We'll make any app development more tedious unless you pay up $100 every year.". Even the development of the simplest app, to be used as a temporary tool by a couple of friends will be blighted by warnings, etc. if you don't pay $100 per year and jump through the hoops! Apple are deliberately making life more difficult and charging us $100 a year for the privilege! 6. I wonder how much developer time world-wide is wasted jumping through Apple's hoops, especially those developers without the benefit of LC and Matthias' tools? 7. If a new-to-LC developer wants to do the usual "Hello World" trivial 1st app (making an executable standalone app), they have to understand code-signing, notarising and stapling, DMG/ZIP creation and be signed/paid-up Apple developers. Thanks to Matthias, you're a life/sanity saver, but I still find the prospects as an app developer rather depressing! Peter -- Peter Reid Loughborough, UK From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Sep 11 04:25:06 2019 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2019 01:25:06 -0700 Subject: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development? Message-ID: Would it be feasible for these ad hoc apps to be built using the Community Edition?I have an idea...Richard GaskinFourth World Systems From jjs at krutt.org Wed Sep 11 04:38:29 2019 From: jjs at krutt.org (JJS) Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2019 10:38:29 +0200 Subject: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development? In-Reply-To: <1FC09A8F-40E4-48F3-BAFD-2C323C73D812@reidit.co.uk> References: <1FC09A8F-40E4-48F3-BAFD-2C323C73D812@reidit.co.uk> Message-ID: The ratio of money asked from devs is also of course: (considered mobile) Mobile Operating Systems Percentage Market Share Mobile Operating System Market Share Worldwide - August 2019 Android 76.23% iOS 22.17% KaiOS 0.59% Unknown 0.26% Samsung 0.21% Windows 0.2% So apple iOs is somewhat increasing this year, in 2018 it was 15% worldwide. Apple asks 100$ yearly --iOs/ (and macOS) Google ask 25$ one time fee -- Android Amazon is FREE ! (for the time being) -- Kindle which is just Android You can also use other platforms for free like Fdroid Beats me why Apple charges so much yearly while the gain i think is to lower that cost as they earn money from your sales anyway. Is there an alternative platform for iOs/macOs ? Op 11-9-2019 om 07:57 schreef Peter Reid via use-livecode: > I've been reading the responses to my original posting with interest. My thoughts are as follows: > > 1. Matthias Rebbe's tutorial and helper stack seem to be excellent and appear to be the best way of complying with Apple's requirements, for now. Let's hope that Matthias can maintain this as Apple move the goalposts over time! If Matthias is unable to sustain these aids I'd hope that the LC mothership would adopt them. > > 2. A lot of the apps I develop are used by immediate friends and family (and a tiny circle of customers). They are private developments for use in closed communities. Apple have no right to be involved in these and the extended development cycle caused by their involvement is just unnecessary pain. > > 3. If Apple's measures really did provide bullet-proof protection the pain could be justified given the gain. However we know that this protection process is continuous and it becomes more and more onerous over time whilst still providing partial protection for a limited time. > > 4. If the Apple measures were a simple switchable setting I could switch them off whilst I check the user experience for a new user. Then I could switch the features back on to see the fully Apple-ised experience. As it is now, using the current Catalina beta on my development Mac, I see no blocking or warnings. So I've no way of testing the user experience on my development Mac. I have to find another Mac to act as my newbie user. Even then if such a Mac has been a previous newbie, how do you neutralise it to relive the newbie experience? > > 5. The $100 charge each year is inexcusable. Basically Apple are saying "We'll make any app development more tedious unless you pay up $100 every year.". Even the development of the simplest app, to be used as a temporary tool by a couple of friends will be blighted by warnings, etc. if you don't pay $100 per year and jump through the hoops! Apple are deliberately making life more difficult and charging us $100 a year for the privilege! > > 6. I wonder how much developer time world-wide is wasted jumping through Apple's hoops, especially those developers without the benefit of LC and Matthias' tools? > > 7. If a new-to-LC developer wants to do the usual "Hello World" trivial 1st app (making an executable standalone app), they have to understand code-signing, notarising and stapling, DMG/ZIP creation and be signed/paid-up Apple developers. > > Thanks to Matthias, you're a life/sanity saver, but I still find the prospects as an app developer rather depressing! > > Peter > -- > Peter Reid > Loughborough, UK > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From merakosp at gmail.com Wed Sep 11 06:23:15 2019 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2019 13:23:15 +0300 Subject: Stop Integer Coercion to Scientific Notation in JSON In-Reply-To: <3042B1E3-9D73-4970-B0FE-F2ACF4775800@hindu.org> References: <3042B1E3-9D73-4970-B0FE-F2ACF4775800@hindu.org> Message-ID: Hello Brahmanathaswami, I think this is because of how currently some handlers in lcb work. See bug https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18159 (and the related bugs) for more details. This affects other areas, such as how large numbers are shown in the variables pane in the debugger. Kind regards, Panos -- On Tue, 10 Sep 2019 at 22:59, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > setPref "preferences/global/lastRunDate", (the seconds) # e.g 1568144731 > > put getPref ("preferences/global/lastRunDate") into tLastRunDate > > returns > {"preferences": > {"global": > {"lastRunDate": 1.56814e+09}, > [snip] > > # we are using jsonImport > > put jsonImport(tJSON) into tPreferencesA > > # handle data and > > put jsonExport(tPreferencesA) into tJSON. > > # thereafter my simple arithmetic functions like > > put (tLastRunDate + 3600) into 1HourLater > > # now throw a "left operand" error.... > > How can we prevent the coercion of simple integer notation to scientific? > > Why is it needed for simple 10 digit number is beyond me. > > There is nothing about automatic coercion in the dictionary. > > BR > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From benr at cogapp.com Wed Sep 11 07:17:10 2019 From: benr at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2019 12:17:10 +0100 Subject: Using LiveCode & AppleScript to make mouse selection in another Mac application In-Reply-To: <109C0FAD-75A5-490C-B537-8D0258E63C07@all-auctions.com> References: <8a9d74a6-0c89-577b-a9ef-4ca6a8283c45@cogapp.com> <6FAEEC51-0D64-498E-8F95-785577ED6A6F@iotecdigital.com> <109C0FAD-75A5-490C-B537-8D0258E63C07@all-auctions.com> Message-ID: <00bd3281-f942-d1b2-f68e-c10320cec0b2@cogapp.com> Keyboard Maestro is indeed the best solution, thank you Bob. FWIW I'd just managed to find a horrible hack, by enabling the "Mouse Keys" facility, and using System Events to send numeric keypad codes to lock the mouse down and move it - one pixel at a time.... Keyboard Maestro is a rather better solution, and looks excellent. Thanks for the tip! Ben On 11/09/2019 05:28, Rick Harrison via use-livecode wrote: > Hi Bob, > > Thanks for telling us about Keyboard Maestro! > > I used to use Quikeys for Mac for a long time, but > they haven?t updated it for quite some time and > I was hoping to find a substitute. It looks like > Keyboard Maestro is like Quikeys on Steroids! > > Thanks again, > > Rick > >> On Sep 10, 2019, at 5:52 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: >> >> You need a Macro program. I like Keyboard Maestro. >> >> Bob S From sean at pidigital.co.uk Wed Sep 11 08:42:49 2019 From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Sean Cole (Pi)) Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2019 13:42:49 +0100 Subject: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Sep 2019 at 09:25, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Would it be feasible for these ad hoc apps to be built using the Community > Edition?I have an idea...Richard GaskinFourth World Systems > _______________________________________________ > This is a really good point, Peter. Let LC do all the 'hoop-jumping' and have your family and friends run your small one-off apps as an LC stack inside the community edition. Alternatively, boycott Apple if your distaste for them has increased so much and just leave that issue between them and the larger developers who don't seem so bothered about it. >From *my* standpoint, I LIKE (nay, Love!!) the idea that they are making it harder for hackers to hack our beloved Macs and increase the divide between them and crappy Windoze and Hemeroid devices. Linux is the other option if you really hate yourself and want to put yourself and your family/friends through that level of pain ( I use it because I have to but wouldn't wish it on others). I hope you find a solution that works for you and you find some level of peace. Pi From brahma at hindu.org Wed Sep 11 09:28:16 2019 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2019 13:28:16 +0000 Subject: Stop Integer Coercion to Scientific Notation in JSON In-Reply-To: References: <3042B1E3-9D73-4970-B0FE-F2ACF4775800@hindu.org> Message-ID: One tries his best to not get excited by bugs that are left untouched, With some OS's to. keep current, engineering has a tough time, we all know that ? but this one pushes a button? bug https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18159 How can such a bug go unfixed for three years? Computing should be "exact" when comes to simple "arithmetic" operations, after all the CPU is nothing but passing bit and bytes around, in large equations. ?. if "arithmetic" operations are off all Apps and any OS would immediately have a meltdown So to have a process that loses digits from a simple integer > 100,000 Is "unconscionable " ?for a language of the 21century We need to know that we can depend on "seconds" through all processes?"time" is fundamental to computing at all levels. You should put this on the list a top priority. With so many apps now working with the cloud, REST/XML and related proprietary transfers using JSON. It is ever more in important that we can depend of LiveCode for the simple act of keeping a number/integer (any size) intact! At least I think I have a hack: to store time as a string -- the internet time in the json to keep in intact and to convert it after unpacking, and before store again but something as simple as put ( (the seconds) +3600) into tOneHourLater Should always work. God help anyone using Livecode widgets/LCB extensions for physics. BR Hello Brahmanathaswami, I think this is because of how currently some handlers in lcb work. See bug https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18159 (and the related bugs) for more details. This affects other areas, such as how large numbers are shown in the variables pane in the debugger. Kind regards, Panos -- On Tue, 10 Sep 2019 at 22:59, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode > wrote: setPref "preferences/global/lastRunDate", (the seconds) # e.g 1568144731 put getPref ("preferences/global/lastRunDate") into tLastRunDate returns {"preferences": {"global": {"lastRunDate": 1.56814e+09}, [snip] # we are using jsonImport put jsonImport(tJSON) into tPreferencesA # handle data and put jsonExport(tPreferencesA) into tJSON. # thereafter my simple arithmetic functions like put (tLastRunDate + 3600) into 1HourLater # now throw a "left operand" error.... How can we prevent the coercion of simple integer notation to scientific? Why is it needed for simple 10 digit number is beyond me. There is nothing about automatic coercion in the dictionary. BR _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From brahma at hindu.org Wed Sep 11 09:45:07 2019 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2019 13:45:07 +0000 Subject: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development? Message-ID: <00470D11-28D4-46C0-8A5C-6259EB1593E7@hindu.org> Ditto what Kee said I so happy with this thread? I didn't know about Matthias's tool's! Oh.. My.. I do a lot of in house/volunteer tooIs, ?.the number of times in the past few years have tell, send email, send them to web site? to "Go to System Preferences, General down below you will see the app was blocked, click on "Allow to open". Never have to deal with that question ever again? A small developers fee and Signing app, is well worth it. for Windows, I just tell them "ignore security warnings" Windows users are used to that? Thank you Matthias! Kee said: I know a bunch of users who click on everything and download stuff and agree to all sorts of silly stuff and then claim that they have been hacked (and perhaps they have been hacked). I?m OK with extra steps if the OS becomes safer for folks who really do not understand security. From merakosp at gmail.com Wed Sep 11 09:50:13 2019 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2019 16:50:13 +0300 Subject: Stop Integer Coercion to Scientific Notation in JSON In-Reply-To: References: <3042B1E3-9D73-4970-B0FE-F2ACF4775800@hindu.org> Message-ID: Hello all, There is not a lost of precision in the operations. The problem is just that LCB *displays* the value of large numbers in scientific notation, but if you actually do any calculations with the variables that hold these numbers, the calculations are accurate. In other words the variables do hold the full value - it is the emission which is turning them into the scientific notation. (emisson as text in json) Hope this helps. Kind regards, Panos -- On Wed, 11 Sep 2019 at 16:29, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > One tries his best to not get excited by bugs that are left untouched, > With some OS's to. keep current, engineering has a tough time, we all know > that ? but this one pushes a button? > > bug https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18159 > > > How can such a bug go unfixed for three years? Computing should be "exact" > when comes to simple "arithmetic" operations, after all the CPU is nothing > but passing bit and bytes around, in large equations. ?. if "arithmetic" > operations are off all Apps and any OS would immediately have a meltdown > > So to have a process that loses digits from a simple integer > 100,000 Is > "unconscionable " > ?for a language of the 21century > > We need to know that we can depend on "seconds" through all > processes?"time" is fundamental to computing at all levels. > > You should put this on the list a top priority. > > With so many apps now working with the cloud, REST/XML and related > proprietary transfers using JSON. It is ever more in important that we can > depend of LiveCode for the simple act of keeping a number/integer (any > size) intact! > > At least I think I have a hack: to store time as a string -- the internet > time in the json to keep in intact and to convert it after unpacking, and > before store again but something as simple as > > put ( (the seconds) +3600) into tOneHourLater > > Should always work. > > God help anyone using Livecode widgets/LCB extensions for physics. > > BR > > > > Hello Brahmanathaswami, > > I think this is because of how currently some handlers in lcb work. > > See bug https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18159 (and the > related bugs) for more details. > > This affects other areas, such as how large numbers are shown in the > variables pane in the debugger. > > Kind regards, > Panos > -- > > On Tue, 10 Sep 2019 at 22:59, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> > wrote: > setPref "preferences/global/lastRunDate", (the seconds) # e.g 1568144731 > > put getPref ("preferences/global/lastRunDate") into tLastRunDate > > returns > {"preferences": > {"global": > {"lastRunDate": 1.56814e+09}, > [snip] > > # we are using jsonImport > > put jsonImport(tJSON) into tPreferencesA > > # handle data and > > put jsonExport(tPreferencesA) into tJSON. > > # thereafter my simple arithmetic functions like > > put (tLastRunDate + 3600) into 1HourLater > > # now throw a "left operand" error.... > > How can we prevent the coercion of simple integer notation to scientific? > > Why is it needed for simple 10 digit number is beyond me. > > There is nothing about automatic coercion in the dictionary. > > BR > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From dsc at swcp.com Wed Sep 11 11:21:03 2019 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott Consulting) Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2019 09:21:03 -0600 Subject: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development? In-Reply-To: References: <1FC09A8F-40E4-48F3-BAFD-2C323C73D812@reidit.co.uk> Message-ID: Keeping a clear look at things... That $100/yr does include "beta OS releases, advanced app capabilities, technical support, and tools to develop, test, and distribute apps." At one time one could get past OSs, but I don't think it is the case now. And you could go down to the test warehouse and test on old machines. On the Windows side, I have used MSDN Universal ($2200/yr) and MSDN Operating Systems ($700/yr) in the past. The latter might be comparable to the Apple Developer membership. Well, it was when you could get past OSes from Apple. I have seen ads for codesigning certs that work for both Apple and Windows. I don't know what that means. And I don't know why the fees for 2nd and 3rd years are so high. Dar Senior Consultant Dar Scott Consulting Mad Scientist darzLab > On Sep 11, 2019, at 2:38 AM, JJS via use-livecode wrote: > > The ratio of money asked from devs is also of course: (considered mobile) > > Mobile Operating Systems Percentage Market Share > Mobile Operating System Market Share Worldwide - August 2019 > Android 76.23% > iOS 22.17% > KaiOS 0.59% > Unknown 0.26% > Samsung 0.21% > Windows 0.2% > > So apple iOs is somewhat increasing this year, in 2018 it was 15% worldwide. > > Apple asks 100$ yearly --iOs/ (and macOS) > > Google ask 25$ one time fee -- Android > > Amazon is FREE ! (for the time being) -- Kindle which is just Android > > You can also use other platforms for free like Fdroid > > Beats me why Apple charges so much yearly while the gain i think is to lower that cost as they earn money from your sales anyway. > > Is there an alternative platform for iOs/macOs ? > > > Op 11-9-2019 om 07:57 schreef Peter Reid via use-livecode: >> I've been reading the responses to my original posting with interest. My thoughts are as follows: >> >> 1. Matthias Rebbe's tutorial and helper stack seem to be excellent and appear to be the best way of complying with Apple's requirements, for now. Let's hope that Matthias can maintain this as Apple move the goalposts over time! If Matthias is unable to sustain these aids I'd hope that the LC mothership would adopt them. >> >> 2. A lot of the apps I develop are used by immediate friends and family (and a tiny circle of customers). They are private developments for use in closed communities. Apple have no right to be involved in these and the extended development cycle caused by their involvement is just unnecessary pain. >> >> 3. If Apple's measures really did provide bullet-proof protection the pain could be justified given the gain. However we know that this protection process is continuous and it becomes more and more onerous over time whilst still providing partial protection for a limited time. >> >> 4. If the Apple measures were a simple switchable setting I could switch them off whilst I check the user experience for a new user. Then I could switch the features back on to see the fully Apple-ised experience. As it is now, using the current Catalina beta on my development Mac, I see no blocking or warnings. So I've no way of testing the user experience on my development Mac. I have to find another Mac to act as my newbie user. Even then if such a Mac has been a previous newbie, how do you neutralise it to relive the newbie experience? >> >> 5. The $100 charge each year is inexcusable. Basically Apple are saying "We'll make any app development more tedious unless you pay up $100 every year.". Even the development of the simplest app, to be used as a temporary tool by a couple of friends will be blighted by warnings, etc. if you don't pay $100 per year and jump through the hoops! Apple are deliberately making life more difficult and charging us $100 a year for the privilege! >> >> 6. I wonder how much developer time world-wide is wasted jumping through Apple's hoops, especially those developers without the benefit of LC and Matthias' tools? >> >> 7. If a new-to-LC developer wants to do the usual "Hello World" trivial 1st app (making an executable standalone app), they have to understand code-signing, notarising and stapling, DMG/ZIP creation and be signed/paid-up Apple developers. >> >> Thanks to Matthias, you're a life/sanity saver, but I still find the prospects as an app developer rather depressing! >> >> Peter >> -- >> Peter Reid >> Loughborough, UK >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Sep 11 14:07:08 2019 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2019 21:07:08 +0300 Subject: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development? In-Reply-To: References: <1FC09A8F-40E4-48F3-BAFD-2C323C73D812@reidit.co.uk> Message-ID: The most telling test is if anyone who has a Catalina beta installed runs off a Macintosh standalone and sees if they can run it themselves: wether from the Open Source version or one of the commercial versions. Richmond. On 11.09.19 18:21, Dar Scott Consulting via use-livecode wrote: > Keeping a clear look at things... That $100/yr does include "beta OS releases, advanced app capabilities, technical support, and tools to develop, test, and distribute apps." At one time one could get past OSs, but I don't think it is the case now. And you could go down to the test warehouse and test on old machines. > > On the Windows side, I have used MSDN Universal ($2200/yr) and MSDN Operating Systems ($700/yr) in the past. The latter might be comparable to the Apple Developer membership. Well, it was when you could get past OSes from Apple. > > I have seen ads for codesigning certs that work for both Apple and Windows. I don't know what that means. And I don't know why the fees for 2nd and 3rd years are so high. > > Dar > > Senior Consultant > Dar Scott Consulting > > Mad Scientist > darzLab > >> On Sep 11, 2019, at 2:38 AM, JJS via use-livecode wrote: >> >> The ratio of money asked from devs is also of course: (considered mobile) >> >> Mobile Operating Systems Percentage Market Share >> Mobile Operating System Market Share Worldwide - August 2019 >> Android 76.23% >> iOS 22.17% >> KaiOS 0.59% >> Unknown 0.26% >> Samsung 0.21% >> Windows 0.2% >> >> So apple iOs is somewhat increasing this year, in 2018 it was 15% worldwide. >> >> Apple asks 100$ yearly --iOs/ (and macOS) >> >> Google ask 25$ one time fee -- Android >> >> Amazon is FREE ! (for the time being) -- Kindle which is just Android >> >> You can also use other platforms for free like Fdroid >> >> Beats me why Apple charges so much yearly while the gain i think is to lower that cost as they earn money from your sales anyway. >> >> Is there an alternative platform for iOs/macOs ? >> >> >> Op 11-9-2019 om 07:57 schreef Peter Reid via use-livecode: >>> I've been reading the responses to my original posting with interest. My thoughts are as follows: >>> >>> 1. Matthias Rebbe's tutorial and helper stack seem to be excellent and appear to be the best way of complying with Apple's requirements, for now. Let's hope that Matthias can maintain this as Apple move the goalposts over time! If Matthias is unable to sustain these aids I'd hope that the LC mothership would adopt them. >>> >>> 2. A lot of the apps I develop are used by immediate friends and family (and a tiny circle of customers). They are private developments for use in closed communities. Apple have no right to be involved in these and the extended development cycle caused by their involvement is just unnecessary pain. >>> >>> 3. If Apple's measures really did provide bullet-proof protection the pain could be justified given the gain. However we know that this protection process is continuous and it becomes more and more onerous over time whilst still providing partial protection for a limited time. >>> >>> 4. If the Apple measures were a simple switchable setting I could switch them off whilst I check the user experience for a new user. Then I could switch the features back on to see the fully Apple-ised experience. As it is now, using the current Catalina beta on my development Mac, I see no blocking or warnings. So I've no way of testing the user experience on my development Mac. I have to find another Mac to act as my newbie user. Even then if such a Mac has been a previous newbie, how do you neutralise it to relive the newbie experience? >>> >>> 5. The $100 charge each year is inexcusable. Basically Apple are saying "We'll make any app development more tedious unless you pay up $100 every year.". Even the development of the simplest app, to be used as a temporary tool by a couple of friends will be blighted by warnings, etc. if you don't pay $100 per year and jump through the hoops! Apple are deliberately making life more difficult and charging us $100 a year for the privilege! >>> >>> 6. I wonder how much developer time world-wide is wasted jumping through Apple's hoops, especially those developers without the benefit of LC and Matthias' tools? >>> >>> 7. If a new-to-LC developer wants to do the usual "Hello World" trivial 1st app (making an executable standalone app), they have to understand code-signing, notarising and stapling, DMG/ZIP creation and be signed/paid-up Apple developers. >>> >>> Thanks to Matthias, you're a life/sanity saver, but I still find the prospects as an app developer rather depressing! >>> >>> Peter >>> -- >>> Peter Reid >>> Loughborough, UK >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Sep 11 14:38:13 2019 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2019 13:38:13 -0500 Subject: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development? In-Reply-To: <1FC09A8F-40E4-48F3-BAFD-2C323C73D812@reidit.co.uk> References: <1FC09A8F-40E4-48F3-BAFD-2C323C73D812@reidit.co.uk> Message-ID: Just a couple of comments: On 9/11/19 12:57 AM, Peter Reid via use-livecode wrote: > 5. The $100 charge each year is inexcusable. Basically Apple are saying "We'll make any app development more tedious unless you pay up $100 every year.". Even the development of the simplest app, to be used as a temporary tool by a couple of friends will be blighted by warnings, etc. if you don't pay $100 per year and jump through the hoops! Apple are deliberately making life more difficult and charging us $100 a year for the privilege! Apple now offers a free developer account for personal apps that aren't for sale. > 7. If a new-to-LC developer wants to do the usual "Hello World" trivial 1st app (making an executable standalone app), they have to understand code-signing, notarising and stapling, DMG/ZIP creation and be signed/paid-up Apple developers. For testing on your own phone you don't need any of that. Just cable the phone to the computer (or use the simulator) and you're good to go. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Sep 11 15:22:27 2019 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2019 22:22:27 +0300 Subject: Odd paste in 9.5 Message-ID: This seems very odd indeed . . . Macintosh 10.14.something-or-other When I copy-paste an image from one card to the next with the menu and a mouse the image pastes correctly, when I copy-paste with CMD-C, CMD-P the resultant image is a solid black colour. Richmond From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Sep 11 15:35:53 2019 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2019 22:35:53 +0300 Subject: Password nonsense Message-ID: So, I have a LiveCode project called GRANTHA for inputting text in Glagolitic and Old Church Slavonic, and for a while I developed it using a commercial version of LiveCode. Now I am developing it witht he Open Source version of LiveCode, but, everytime I build standalones it slows things down by chucking up a load of dialogues anent passwords like this: "There was an error applying a password to stack KIRIL." Is there anyway, in the Community version I can use the standalone builder to remove those password from those stacks so I don't have to keep going through that unnecessary rigmarole? Richmond. From klaus at major-k.de Wed Sep 11 16:01:16 2019 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2019 22:01:16 +0200 Subject: Odd paste in 9.5 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Richmond, > Am 11.09.2019 um 21:22 schrieb Richmond via use-livecode : > > This seems very odd indeed . . . > > Macintosh 10.14.something-or-other > > When I copy-paste an image from one card to the next with the menu and a mouse the image pastes correctly, > when I copy-paste with CMD-C, CMD-P CMD-P = print 8-) > the resultant image is a solid black colour. Quick test on macOS 10.14.6 and LC 9.5 on my MacMini, no problem with shortcuts CMD-C/CMD-V or any other way of copy/paste here!? > Richmond Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de klaus at major-k.de From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Sep 11 16:03:36 2019 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2019 23:03:36 +0300 Subject: Odd paste in 9.5 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <31ab3188-38ee-8a89-4f63-c7c63e36380a@gmail.com> Err, yeah, CMD-V: sometimes get the image, sometimes get a black rectangle, varies. You, me and our MacMinis . . . a match made in h***.? :) Richmond. On 11.09.19 23:01, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > Hi Richmond, > >> Am 11.09.2019 um 21:22 schrieb Richmond via use-livecode : >> >> This seems very odd indeed . . . >> >> Macintosh 10.14.something-or-other >> >> When I copy-paste an image from one card to the next with the menu and a mouse the image pastes correctly, >> when I copy-paste with CMD-C, CMD-P > CMD-P = print 8-) > >> the resultant image is a solid black colour. > Quick test on macOS 10.14.6 and LC 9.5 on my MacMini, no problem with shortcuts CMD-C/CMD-V > or any other way of copy/paste here!? > >> Richmond > Best > > Klaus > > -- > Klaus Major > https://www.major-k.de > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dunbarx at aol.com Wed Sep 11 16:06:21 2019 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx at aol.com) Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2019 20:06:21 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Odd paste in 9.5 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <261032909.3932418.1568232381633@mail.yahoo.com> Richmond. I do not see this in either v 8 or v.9. Both methods work just fine. I am not sure that you will see this post. I am having issues with the use list. If I do not see it, I will forward to the forums Craig -----Original Message----- From: Richmond via use-livecode To: use-livecode Cc: Richmond Sent: Wed, Sep 11, 2019 3:23 pm Subject: Odd paste in 9.5 This seems very odd indeed . . . Macintosh 10.14.something-or-other When I copy-paste an image from one card to the next with the menu and a mouse the image pastes correctly, when I copy-paste with CMD-C, CMD-P the resultant image is a solid black colour. Richmond _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Sep 11 16:12:21 2019 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2019 23:12:21 +0300 Subject: Odd paste in 9.5 In-Reply-To: <261032909.3932418.1568232381633@mail.yahoo.com> References: <261032909.3932418.1568232381633@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <32be41e8-14d4-920e-0ef5-b091150384b5@gmail.com> Thanks, I saw your message. best, Richmond. On 11.09.19 23:06, dunbarx--- via use-livecode wrote: > Richmond. > I do not see this in either v 8 or v.9. Both methods work just fine. > I am not sure that you will see this post. I am having issues with the use list. If I do not see it, I will forward to the forums > Craig > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Richmond via use-livecode > To: use-livecode > Cc: Richmond > Sent: Wed, Sep 11, 2019 3:23 pm > Subject: Odd paste in 9.5 > > This seems very odd indeed . . . > > Macintosh 10.14.something-or-other > > When I copy-paste an image from one card to the next with the menu and a > mouse the image pastes correctly, > when I copy-paste with CMD-C, CMD-P the resultant image is a solid black > colour. > > Richmond > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Sep 11 16:53:47 2019 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2019 15:53:47 -0500 Subject: Merge and unicode In-Reply-To: <79ps3rof16ej1qnsj1k89cn0.1568179700734@email.lge.com> References: <79ps3rof16ej1qnsj1k89cn0.1568179700734@email.lge.com> Message-ID: <8b29d4d9-cb74-28cd-c7a0-07391cf301a4@hyperactivesw.com> On 9/11/19 12:28 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > I'll wager using a styledText array for this will be fun to write and will perform very well. I took a look. You'd win that wager. I didn't test performance (haven't written the handler yet) but getting the styledText of an existing list retains the correct characters. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Wed Sep 11 17:17:55 2019 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2019 17:17:55 -0400 Subject: Merge and unicode In-Reply-To: <8b29d4d9-cb74-28cd-c7a0-07391cf301a4@hyperactivesw.com> References: <79ps3rof16ej1qnsj1k89cn0.1568179700734@email.lge.com> <8b29d4d9-cb74-28cd-c7a0-07391cf301a4@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <004f01d568e6$63e24e40$2ba6eac0$@net> I have to look back and find my timings but I think I got a 10x or better performance by creating the styled text array and then setting the field to it. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of J. Landman Gay via use-livecode Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2019 4:54 PM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: J. Landman Gay Subject: Re: Merge and unicode On 9/11/19 12:28 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > I'll wager using a styledText array for this will be fun to write and will perform very well. I took a look. You'd win that wager. I didn't test performance (haven't written the handler yet) but getting the styledText of an existing list retains the correct characters. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From martyknappster at gmail.com Wed Sep 11 20:13:55 2019 From: martyknappster at gmail.com (Marty Knapp) Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2019 17:13:55 -0700 Subject: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development? In-Reply-To: References: <1FC09A8F-40E4-48F3-BAFD-2C323C73D812@reidit.co.uk> Message-ID: I just tried 2 apps that I built in LC 9.5 business. I have Catalina beta 7 installed. Neither app was code signed or notarized. I moved the apps to that machine via a thumb drive and did not zip compress either one. They both launched on Catalina beta without complaint. Next I zipped one of the apps and uploaded to my server and then downloaded it to the Catalina beta. This time when I tried to open, I got the message that it could not be opened because its integrity couldn?t be verified. The only options were ?Move to trash? or ?cancel? I then right clicked and chose Open and again got the warning about not being able to verify but now had an additional option to open, which it did. I quit and opened again - this time with no warnings or trouble. I did just get a notice that beta 8 is available. Will test when I get it installed. Marty > On Sep 11, 2019, at 11:07 AM, Richmond via use-livecode wrote: > > The most telling test is if anyone who has a Catalina beta installed runs off a Macintosh > standalone and sees if they can run it themselves: wether from the Open Source version or > one of the commercial versions. > > Richmond. > > On 11.09.19 18:21, Dar Scott Consulting via use-livecode wrote: >> Keeping a clear look at things... That $100/yr does include "beta OS releases, advanced app capabilities, technical support, and tools to develop, test, and distribute apps." At one time one could get past OSs, but I don't think it is the case now. And you could go down to the test warehouse and test on old machines. >> >> On the Windows side, I have used MSDN Universal ($2200/yr) and MSDN Operating Systems ($700/yr) in the past. The latter might be comparable to the Apple Developer membership. Well, it was when you could get past OSes from Apple. >> >> I have seen ads for codesigning certs that work for both Apple and Windows. I don't know what that means. And I don't know why the fees for 2nd and 3rd years are so high. >> >> Dar >> >> Senior Consultant >> Dar Scott Consulting >> >> Mad Scientist >> darzLab >> >>> On Sep 11, 2019, at 2:38 AM, JJS via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> The ratio of money asked from devs is also of course: (considered mobile) >>> >>> Mobile Operating Systems Percentage Market Share >>> Mobile Operating System Market Share Worldwide - August 2019 >>> Android 76.23% >>> iOS 22.17% >>> KaiOS 0.59% >>> Unknown 0.26% >>> Samsung 0.21% >>> Windows 0.2% >>> >>> So apple iOs is somewhat increasing this year, in 2018 it was 15% worldwide. >>> >>> Apple asks 100$ yearly --iOs/ (and macOS) >>> >>> Google ask 25$ one time fee -- Android >>> >>> Amazon is FREE ! (for the time being) -- Kindle which is just Android >>> >>> You can also use other platforms for free like Fdroid >>> >>> Beats me why Apple charges so much yearly while the gain i think is to lower that cost as they earn money from your sales anyway. >>> >>> Is there an alternative platform for iOs/macOs ? >>> >>> >>> Op 11-9-2019 om 07:57 schreef Peter Reid via use-livecode: >>>> I've been reading the responses to my original posting with interest. My thoughts are as follows: >>>> >>>> 1. Matthias Rebbe's tutorial and helper stack seem to be excellent and appear to be the best way of complying with Apple's requirements, for now. Let's hope that Matthias can maintain this as Apple move the goalposts over time! If Matthias is unable to sustain these aids I'd hope that the LC mothership would adopt them. >>>> >>>> 2. A lot of the apps I develop are used by immediate friends and family (and a tiny circle of customers). They are private developments for use in closed communities. Apple have no right to be involved in these and the extended development cycle caused by their involvement is just unnecessary pain. >>>> >>>> 3. If Apple's measures really did provide bullet-proof protection the pain could be justified given the gain. However we know that this protection process is continuous and it becomes more and more onerous over time whilst still providing partial protection for a limited time. >>>> >>>> 4. If the Apple measures were a simple switchable setting I could switch them off whilst I check the user experience for a new user. Then I could switch the features back on to see the fully Apple-ised experience. As it is now, using the current Catalina beta on my development Mac, I see no blocking or warnings. So I've no way of testing the user experience on my development Mac. I have to find another Mac to act as my newbie user. Even then if such a Mac has been a previous newbie, how do you neutralise it to relive the newbie experience? >>>> >>>> 5. The $100 charge each year is inexcusable. Basically Apple are saying "We'll make any app development more tedious unless you pay up $100 every year.". Even the development of the simplest app, to be used as a temporary tool by a couple of friends will be blighted by warnings, etc. if you don't pay $100 per year and jump through the hoops! Apple are deliberately making life more difficult and charging us $100 a year for the privilege! >>>> >>>> 6. I wonder how much developer time world-wide is wasted jumping through Apple's hoops, especially those developers without the benefit of LC and Matthias' tools? >>>> >>>> 7. If a new-to-LC developer wants to do the usual "Hello World" trivial 1st app (making an executable standalone app), they have to understand code-signing, notarising and stapling, DMG/ZIP creation and be signed/paid-up Apple developers. >>>> >>>> Thanks to Matthias, you're a life/sanity saver, but I still find the prospects as an app developer rather depressing! >>>> >>>> Peter >>>> -- >>>> Peter Reid >>>> Loughborough, UK >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From martyknappster at gmail.com Wed Sep 11 20:43:34 2019 From: martyknappster at gmail.com (Marty Knapp) Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2019 17:43:34 -0700 Subject: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development? In-Reply-To: References: <1FC09A8F-40E4-48F3-BAFD-2C323C73D812@reidit.co.uk> Message-ID: Just tried my previous tests with non-signed, non-notarized apps with the Catalina beta 8 (just released today) with the same result as beta 7. I also zipped an app, transferred it to the Catalina machine via thumb drive, then unzipped and ran without complaint or warning. So it would appear that downloaded apps are what triggers the warning. Marty > On Sep 11, 2019, at 5:13 PM, Marty Knapp wrote: > > I just tried 2 apps that I built in LC 9.5 business. I have Catalina beta 7 installed. Neither app was code signed or notarized. I moved the apps to that machine via a thumb drive and did not zip compress either one. They both launched on Catalina beta without complaint. > > Next I zipped one of the apps and uploaded to my server and then downloaded it to the Catalina beta. This time when I tried to open, I got the message that it could not be opened because its integrity couldn?t be verified. The only options were ?Move to trash? or ?cancel? > > I then right clicked and chose Open and again got the warning about not being able to verify but now had an additional option to open, which it did. I quit and opened again - this time with no warnings or trouble. > > I did just get a notice that beta 8 is available. Will test when I get it installed. > > Marty > >> On Sep 11, 2019, at 11:07 AM, Richmond via use-livecode wrote: >> >> The most telling test is if anyone who has a Catalina beta installed runs off a Macintosh >> standalone and sees if they can run it themselves: wether from the Open Source version or >> one of the commercial versions. >> >> Richmond. >> >> On 11.09.19 18:21, Dar Scott Consulting via use-livecode wrote: >>> Keeping a clear look at things... That $100/yr does include "beta OS releases, advanced app capabilities, technical support, and tools to develop, test, and distribute apps." At one time one could get past OSs, but I don't think it is the case now. And you could go down to the test warehouse and test on old machines. >>> >>> On the Windows side, I have used MSDN Universal ($2200/yr) and MSDN Operating Systems ($700/yr) in the past. The latter might be comparable to the Apple Developer membership. Well, it was when you could get past OSes from Apple. >>> >>> I have seen ads for codesigning certs that work for both Apple and Windows. I don't know what that means. And I don't know why the fees for 2nd and 3rd years are so high. >>> >>> Dar >>> >>> Senior Consultant >>> Dar Scott Consulting >>> >>> Mad Scientist >>> darzLab >>> >>>> On Sep 11, 2019, at 2:38 AM, JJS via use-livecode wrote: >>>> >>>> The ratio of money asked from devs is also of course: (considered mobile) >>>> >>>> Mobile Operating Systems Percentage Market Share >>>> Mobile Operating System Market Share Worldwide - August 2019 >>>> Android 76.23% >>>> iOS 22.17% >>>> KaiOS 0.59% >>>> Unknown 0.26% >>>> Samsung 0.21% >>>> Windows 0.2% >>>> >>>> So apple iOs is somewhat increasing this year, in 2018 it was 15% worldwide. >>>> >>>> Apple asks 100$ yearly --iOs/ (and macOS) >>>> >>>> Google ask 25$ one time fee -- Android >>>> >>>> Amazon is FREE ! (for the time being) -- Kindle which is just Android >>>> >>>> You can also use other platforms for free like Fdroid >>>> >>>> Beats me why Apple charges so much yearly while the gain i think is to lower that cost as they earn money from your sales anyway. >>>> >>>> Is there an alternative platform for iOs/macOs ? >>>> >>>> >>>> Op 11-9-2019 om 07:57 schreef Peter Reid via use-livecode: >>>>> I've been reading the responses to my original posting with interest. My thoughts are as follows: >>>>> >>>>> 1. Matthias Rebbe's tutorial and helper stack seem to be excellent and appear to be the best way of complying with Apple's requirements, for now. Let's hope that Matthias can maintain this as Apple move the goalposts over time! If Matthias is unable to sustain these aids I'd hope that the LC mothership would adopt them. >>>>> >>>>> 2. A lot of the apps I develop are used by immediate friends and family (and a tiny circle of customers). They are private developments for use in closed communities. Apple have no right to be involved in these and the extended development cycle caused by their involvement is just unnecessary pain. >>>>> >>>>> 3. If Apple's measures really did provide bullet-proof protection the pain could be justified given the gain. However we know that this protection process is continuous and it becomes more and more onerous over time whilst still providing partial protection for a limited time. >>>>> >>>>> 4. If the Apple measures were a simple switchable setting I could switch them off whilst I check the user experience for a new user. Then I could switch the features back on to see the fully Apple-ised experience. As it is now, using the current Catalina beta on my development Mac, I see no blocking or warnings. So I've no way of testing the user experience on my development Mac. I have to find another Mac to act as my newbie user. Even then if such a Mac has been a previous newbie, how do you neutralise it to relive the newbie experience? >>>>> >>>>> 5. The $100 charge each year is inexcusable. Basically Apple are saying "We'll make any app development more tedious unless you pay up $100 every year.". Even the development of the simplest app, to be used as a temporary tool by a couple of friends will be blighted by warnings, etc. if you don't pay $100 per year and jump through the hoops! Apple are deliberately making life more difficult and charging us $100 a year for the privilege! >>>>> >>>>> 6. I wonder how much developer time world-wide is wasted jumping through Apple's hoops, especially those developers without the benefit of LC and Matthias' tools? >>>>> >>>>> 7. If a new-to-LC developer wants to do the usual "Hello World" trivial 1st app (making an executable standalone app), they have to understand code-signing, notarising and stapling, DMG/ZIP creation and be signed/paid-up Apple developers. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks to Matthias, you're a life/sanity saver, but I still find the prospects as an app developer rather depressing! >>>>> >>>>> Peter >>>>> -- >>>>> Peter Reid >>>>> Loughborough, UK >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From harrison at all-auctions.com Thu Sep 12 01:05:46 2019 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison) Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2019 01:05:46 -0400 Subject: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development? In-Reply-To: References: <1FC09A8F-40E4-48F3-BAFD-2C323C73D812@reidit.co.uk> Message-ID: That behavior does not sound any different from what we have experienced in older versions of macOS such as High Sierra. Perhaps it won?t get worse until later versions of Catalina? Thanks for the test Marty! Rick > On Sep 11, 2019, at 8:43 PM, Marty Knapp via use-livecode wrote: > > Just tried my previous tests with non-signed, non-notarized apps with the Catalina beta 8 (just released today) with the same result as beta 7. I also zipped an app, transferred it to the Catalina machine via thumb drive, then unzipped and ran without complaint or warning. So it would appear that downloaded apps are what triggers the warning. > > Marty From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Thu Sep 12 03:22:59 2019 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2019 10:22:59 +0300 Subject: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development? In-Reply-To: References: <1FC09A8F-40E4-48F3-BAFD-2C323C73D812@reidit.co.uk> Message-ID: That sounds as if "things" are possible. I have run off a very simple standalone (one card, one button, one field) and uploaded it to Dropbox, and would be most grateful if you can try to get it to run. https://www.dropbox.com/s/518kxvml2si3xic/ISLAND.zip?dl=0 I am currently running Mojave as am a bit reluctant to dive into the water round the island just yet. Richmond. On 12.09.19 3:13, Marty Knapp via use-livecode wrote: > I just tried 2 apps that I built in LC 9.5 business. I have Catalina beta 7 installed. Neither app was code signed or notarized. I moved the apps to that machine via a thumb drive and did not zip compress either one. They both launched on Catalina beta without complaint. > > Next I zipped one of the apps and uploaded to my server and then downloaded it to the Catalina beta. This time when I tried to open, I got the message that it could not be opened because its integrity couldn?t be verified. The only options were ?Move to trash? or ?cancel? > > I then right clicked and chose Open and again got the warning about not being able to verify but now had an additional option to open, which it did. I quit and opened again - this time with no warnings or trouble. > > I did just get a notice that beta 8 is available. Will test when I get it installed. > > Marty > >> On Sep 11, 2019, at 11:07 AM, Richmond via use-livecode wrote: >> >> The most telling test is if anyone who has a Catalina beta installed runs off a Macintosh >> standalone and sees if they can run it themselves: wether from the Open Source version or >> one of the commercial versions. >> >> Richmond. >> >> On 11.09.19 18:21, Dar Scott Consulting via use-livecode wrote: >>> Keeping a clear look at things... That $100/yr does include "beta OS releases, advanced app capabilities, technical support, and tools to develop, test, and distribute apps." At one time one could get past OSs, but I don't think it is the case now. And you could go down to the test warehouse and test on old machines. >>> >>> On the Windows side, I have used MSDN Universal ($2200/yr) and MSDN Operating Systems ($700/yr) in the past. The latter might be comparable to the Apple Developer membership. Well, it was when you could get past OSes from Apple. >>> >>> I have seen ads for codesigning certs that work for both Apple and Windows. I don't know what that means. And I don't know why the fees for 2nd and 3rd years are so high. >>> >>> Dar >>> >>> Senior Consultant >>> Dar Scott Consulting >>> >>> Mad Scientist >>> darzLab >>> >>>> On Sep 11, 2019, at 2:38 AM, JJS via use-livecode wrote: >>>> >>>> The ratio of money asked from devs is also of course: (considered mobile) >>>> >>>> Mobile Operating Systems Percentage Market Share >>>> Mobile Operating System Market Share Worldwide - August 2019 >>>> Android 76.23% >>>> iOS 22.17% >>>> KaiOS 0.59% >>>> Unknown 0.26% >>>> Samsung 0.21% >>>> Windows 0.2% >>>> >>>> So apple iOs is somewhat increasing this year, in 2018 it was 15% worldwide. >>>> >>>> Apple asks 100$ yearly --iOs/ (and macOS) >>>> >>>> Google ask 25$ one time fee -- Android >>>> >>>> Amazon is FREE ! (for the time being) -- Kindle which is just Android >>>> >>>> You can also use other platforms for free like Fdroid >>>> >>>> Beats me why Apple charges so much yearly while the gain i think is to lower that cost as they earn money from your sales anyway. >>>> >>>> Is there an alternative platform for iOs/macOs ? >>>> >>>> >>>> Op 11-9-2019 om 07:57 schreef Peter Reid via use-livecode: >>>>> I've been reading the responses to my original posting with interest. My thoughts are as follows: >>>>> >>>>> 1. Matthias Rebbe's tutorial and helper stack seem to be excellent and appear to be the best way of complying with Apple's requirements, for now. Let's hope that Matthias can maintain this as Apple move the goalposts over time! If Matthias is unable to sustain these aids I'd hope that the LC mothership would adopt them. >>>>> >>>>> 2. A lot of the apps I develop are used by immediate friends and family (and a tiny circle of customers). They are private developments for use in closed communities. Apple have no right to be involved in these and the extended development cycle caused by their involvement is just unnecessary pain. >>>>> >>>>> 3. If Apple's measures really did provide bullet-proof protection the pain could be justified given the gain. However we know that this protection process is continuous and it becomes more and more onerous over time whilst still providing partial protection for a limited time. >>>>> >>>>> 4. If the Apple measures were a simple switchable setting I could switch them off whilst I check the user experience for a new user. Then I could switch the features back on to see the fully Apple-ised experience. As it is now, using the current Catalina beta on my development Mac, I see no blocking or warnings. So I've no way of testing the user experience on my development Mac. I have to find another Mac to act as my newbie user. Even then if such a Mac has been a previous newbie, how do you neutralise it to relive the newbie experience? >>>>> >>>>> 5. The $100 charge each year is inexcusable. Basically Apple are saying "We'll make any app development more tedious unless you pay up $100 every year.". Even the development of the simplest app, to be used as a temporary tool by a couple of friends will be blighted by warnings, etc. if you don't pay $100 per year and jump through the hoops! Apple are deliberately making life more difficult and charging us $100 a year for the privilege! >>>>> >>>>> 6. I wonder how much developer time world-wide is wasted jumping through Apple's hoops, especially those developers without the benefit of LC and Matthias' tools? >>>>> >>>>> 7. If a new-to-LC developer wants to do the usual "Hello World" trivial 1st app (making an executable standalone app), they have to understand code-signing, notarising and stapling, DMG/ZIP creation and be signed/paid-up Apple developers. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks to Matthias, you're a life/sanity saver, but I still find the prospects as an app developer rather depressing! >>>>> >>>>> Peter >>>>> -- >>>>> Peter Reid >>>>> Loughborough, UK >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Thu Sep 12 03:26:45 2019 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2019 10:26:45 +0300 Subject: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development? In-Reply-To: References: <1FC09A8F-40E4-48F3-BAFD-2C323C73D812@reidit.co.uk> Message-ID: <23e8f7f0-c0ac-89d3-9c7b-ac3d65112132@gmail.com> I wonder if downloading-qua-downloading is the problem? Possibly downloading some sort of compressed file (.zip, .7zx, other type) and then decompressing it on the target machine will allow installation? Richmond. On 12.09.19 8:05, Rick Harrison via use-livecode wrote: > That behavior does not sound any different from > what we have experienced in older versions of > macOS such as High Sierra. Perhaps it won?t > get worse until later versions of Catalina? > > Thanks for the test Marty! > > Rick > >> On Sep 11, 2019, at 8:43 PM, Marty Knapp via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Just tried my previous tests with non-signed, non-notarized apps with the Catalina beta 8 (just released today) with the same result as beta 7. I also zipped an app, transferred it to the Catalina machine via thumb drive, then unzipped and ran without complaint or warning. So it would appear that downloaded apps are what triggers the warning. >> >> Marty > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From phil at liverpool.ac.uk Thu Sep 12 04:19:40 2019 From: phil at liverpool.ac.uk (Phil Jimmieson) Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2019 09:19:40 +0100 Subject: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development? In-Reply-To: <23e8f7f0-c0ac-89d3-9c7b-ac3d65112132@gmail.com> References: <1FC09A8F-40E4-48F3-BAFD-2C323C73D812@reidit.co.uk> <23e8f7f0-c0ac-89d3-9c7b-ac3d65112132@gmail.com> Message-ID: From experiments that I?ve done, it?s the downloading bit which flags an App as needing special treatment by the OS. If you build it and transfer it via a USB stick (or CD), then it?s ok. It?s when you download it - either as the app itself, or as a zipped version. I think the zip file is flagged as potentially dangerous, and when unzipped, it?s contents similarly flagged. If you share it via a shared Dropbox folder, that also works (but not downloading it from a Dropbox link). > On 12 Sep 2019, at 08:26, Richmond via use-livecode wrote: > > I wonder if downloading-qua-downloading is the problem? > > Possibly downloading some sort of compressed file (.zip, .7zx, other type) and > then decompressing it on the target machine will allow installation? > > Richmond. > > On 12.09.19 8:05, Rick Harrison via use-livecode wrote: >> That behavior does not sound any different from >> what we have experienced in older versions of >> macOS such as High Sierra. Perhaps it won?t >> get worse until later versions of Catalina? >> >> Thanks for the test Marty! >> >> Rick >> >>> On Sep 11, 2019, at 8:43 PM, Marty Knapp via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> Just tried my previous tests with non-signed, non-notarized apps with the Catalina beta 8 (just released today) with the same result as beta 7. I also zipped an app, transferred it to the Catalina machine via thumb drive, then unzipped and ran without complaint or warning. So it would appear that downloaded apps are what triggers the warning. >>> >>> Marty >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode -- Phil Jimmieson phil at liverpool.ac.uk (UK) 0151 795 4236 (Mobile) 07976 983164 Computer Science Dept., Liverpool University, Ashton Building, Ashton Street Liverpool L69 3BX http://intranet.csc.liv.ac.uk/~phil/ I used to sit on a special medical board... ...but now I use this ointment. From thatkeith at mac.com Thu Sep 12 05:39:21 2019 From: thatkeith at mac.com (Keith Martin) Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2019 10:39:21 +0100 Subject: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development? In-Reply-To: References: <1FC09A8F-40E4-48F3-BAFD-2C323C73D812@reidit.co.uk> Message-ID: <304B3DCA-5B8B-4F39-8D4A-20BA5A594153@mac.com> On 11 Sep 2019, at 16:21, Dar Scott Consulting via use-livecode wrote: > At one time one could get past OSs, but I don't think it is the case > now If a past OS has been downloaded through one's standard Mac/me/iCloud account in the past it can be downloaded and installed again. It can also be downloaded to install on a different Mac or to archive the installer yourself, although this takes a tiny bit of hoop-jumping as it is set up to 'download-run-install' with minimal user management required. k From sundown at pacifier.com Thu Sep 12 06:56:02 2019 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2019 03:56:02 -0700 Subject: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development? In-Reply-To: References: <1FC09A8F-40E4-48F3-BAFD-2C323C73D812@reidit.co.uk> <23e8f7f0-c0ac-89d3-9c7b-ac3d65112132@gmail.com> Message-ID: I am still on macOS 10.11.6 so I don?t know much about what is happening but I was wondering if you transferred the file with a secure connection like CyberDuck does the download bit get changed? Another question that might be a work around is if you zip the file and then zip the zip of that file does it change the download bit? JB > On Sep 12, 2019, at 1:19 AM, Phil Jimmieson via use-livecode wrote: > > From experiments that I?ve done, it?s the downloading bit which flags an App as needing special treatment by the OS. If you build it and transfer it via a USB stick (or CD), then it?s ok. It?s when you download it - either as the app itself, or as a zipped version. I think the zip file is flagged as potentially dangerous, and when unzipped, it?s contents similarly flagged. If you share it via a shared Dropbox folder, that also works (but not downloading it from a Dropbox link). > > >> On 12 Sep 2019, at 08:26, Richmond via use-livecode wrote: >> >> I wonder if downloading-qua-downloading is the problem? >> >> Possibly downloading some sort of compressed file (.zip, .7zx, other type) and >> then decompressing it on the target machine will allow installation? >> >> Richmond. >> >> On 12.09.19 8:05, Rick Harrison via use-livecode wrote: >>> That behavior does not sound any different from >>> what we have experienced in older versions of >>> macOS such as High Sierra. Perhaps it won?t >>> get worse until later versions of Catalina? >>> >>> Thanks for the test Marty! >>> >>> Rick >>> >>>> On Sep 11, 2019, at 8:43 PM, Marty Knapp via use-livecode wrote: >>>> >>>> Just tried my previous tests with non-signed, non-notarized apps with the Catalina beta 8 (just released today) with the same result as beta 7. I also zipped an app, transferred it to the Catalina machine via thumb drive, then unzipped and ran without complaint or warning. So it would appear that downloaded apps are what triggers the warning. >>>> >>>> Marty >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > -- > Phil Jimmieson phil at liverpool.ac.uk (UK) 0151 795 4236 (Mobile) 07976 983164 > Computer Science Dept., Liverpool University, Ashton Building, Ashton Street > Liverpool L69 3BX http://intranet.csc.liv.ac.uk/~phil/ > I used to sit on a special medical board... ...but now I use this ointment. > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From brahma at hindu.org Thu Sep 12 14:41:09 2019 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2019 18:41:09 +0000 Subject: Stop Integer Coercion to Scientific Notation in JSON In-Reply-To: References: <3042B1E3-9D73-4970-B0FE-F2ACF4775800@hindu.org> Message-ID: Been working Panos off list. There is a caveat, jsonImport and jsonExport not only "display" but "preserve" the scientific notation as a literal string and math will fail. Panos says: must use, (and include in a standalone)??mergeJson to use:??jsonToArray??and arrayToJSON? try these: on mouseup ?? local tJSON ?? breakpoint ?? put "{" & quote & "lastRunDate" & quote && ":" && the seconds & "}" into tJSON ?? put jsonImport(tJSON) into tArr ?? put (tArr["lastRunDate"]??+3600 ) into?? tArr["lastRunDate"]? ?? put jsonExport(tArr) into tJSON ?? put tJSON into url??("binfile:" & (specialFolderPath("desktop") &"/myPrefs.json" )) ?? put url??("binfile:" & (specialFolderPath("desktop") &"/myPrefs.json" )) into tNewJSON ?? put jsonImport(tNewJSON) into tPreferencesA ?? put tPreferencesA["lastRunDate"]??+ 3600 end mouseup # then try this on mouseup ?? local tJSON ?? put "{" & quote & "lastRunDate" & quote && ":" && the seconds & "}" into tJSON ?? breakpoint ?? put jsonToArray(tJSON) into tArr ?? put (tArr["lastRunDate"] +3600 ) into tArr["lastRunDate"] ?? put arrayToJSON(tArr) into tJSON ?? put tJSON into url ("binfile:" & (specialFolderPath("desktop")&"/myPrefs.json" )) ?? put url ("binfile:" & (specialFolderPath("desktop") &"/myPrefs.json" )) into tNewJSON ?? put jsonImport(tNewJSON) into tPreferencesA ?? put the seconds &cr& tPreferencesA["lastRunDate"]??+3600 end mouseup Solved! BR Hello all, There is not a lost of precision in the operations. The problem is just that LCB *displays* the value of large numbers in scientific notation, but if you actually do any calculations with the variables that hold these numbers, the calculations are accurate. In other words the variables do hold the full value - it is the emission which is turning them into the scientific notation. (emisson as text in json) Hope this helps. Kind regards, Panos -- On Wed, 11 Sep 2019 at 16:29, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode wrote: One tries his best to not get excited by bugs that are left untouched, With some OS's to. keep current, engineering? has a tough time, we all know that ? but this one pushes a button? bug?https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18159 From hh at hyperhh.de Thu Sep 12 16:16:33 2019 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2019 22:16:33 +0200 Subject: BasicGeoLib_v100 Message-ID: <335FAEAE-59DB-4DBA-983B-F84B0CAC539C@hyperhh.de> Some specialists may be interested in the following, please report if you have any problem with the stack. BasicGeoLib is a collection of very basic functions for using geoPoints. The points have to be in the format: longitude,latitude in that order, as decimal numbers, as in GeoJSON, NOT in Google. That is the first item (longitude) is a decimal in range -180 to 180, the second item (latitude) is a decimal in range -90 to 90. And the third item is, if needed, a time in seconds (not an elevation value). Credits: Two core functions are based on the js-lib ## https://github.com/manuelbieh/geolib (MIT licensed) and ported to LiveCode. Supported functions (all in group "geoAction", rightClick an action button to edit the script): * getDistance(point1,point2) * getSpeed(point1,startSecs,point2,endSecs) * isPointWithinRadius(centerPoint,radius,listOfPoints) * orderByDistance(toPoint,fromList) * getDistanceFromLine(point1,point2,fromList) * getBoundsAndLoc(linesOfPoints) * getPathLength(linesOfPoints) * sexagesimalToDecimal(linesOfPoints) * decimalToSexagesimal(linesOfPoints) I found no time to prepare the stack as library, please just copy the functions you need or make your own library. From hh at hyperhh.de Thu Sep 12 16:22:08 2019 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2019 22:22:08 +0200 Subject: BasicGeoLib_v100 Message-ID: <3F9457D5-50BC-4521-BB24-1284B48F7EDB@hyperhh.de> Forgot the link. BasicGeoLib is available on "SampleStacks" or here: http://livecodeshare.runrev.com/stack/949/basicGeoLib From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Sep 12 17:18:04 2019 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2019 16:18:04 -0500 Subject: Browser selections Message-ID: <92f5efcb-003b-627f-dcac-ba3bbffe37af@hyperactivesw.com> Is there a way select text by script in a browser widget? I thought I'd done that before but I don't see a command for it now. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From mark at canelasoftware.com Thu Sep 12 17:41:22 2019 From: mark at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto) Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2019 14:41:22 -0700 Subject: BasicGeoLib_v100 In-Reply-To: <335FAEAE-59DB-4DBA-983B-F84B0CAC539C@hyperhh.de> References: <335FAEAE-59DB-4DBA-983B-F84B0CAC539C@hyperhh.de> Message-ID: <5BF68DFA-ADDD-4A47-AB26-6D6974ABFF1C@canelasoftware.com> Thank for this. :) Best regards, Mark Talluto livecloud.io nursenotes.net canelasoftware.com > On Sep 12, 2019, at 1:16 PM, hh via use-livecode wrote: > > Some specialists may be interested in the following, please report if you have any problem with the stack. > > BasicGeoLib is a collection of very basic functions for using geoPoints. > > The points have to be in the format: longitude,latitude in that order, > as decimal numbers, as in GeoJSON, NOT in Google. > That is the first item (longitude) is a decimal in range -180 to 180, > the second item (latitude) is a decimal in range -90 to 90. > And the third item is, if needed, a time in seconds (not an elevation > value). > > Credits: Two core functions are based on the js-lib > ## https://github.com/manuelbieh/geolib (MIT licensed) > and ported to LiveCode. > > Supported functions (all in group "geoAction", rightClick an action > button to edit the script): > > * getDistance(point1,point2) > * getSpeed(point1,startSecs,point2,endSecs) > * isPointWithinRadius(centerPoint,radius,listOfPoints) > * orderByDistance(toPoint,fromList) > * getDistanceFromLine(point1,point2,fromList) > * getBoundsAndLoc(linesOfPoints) > * getPathLength(linesOfPoints) > * sexagesimalToDecimal(linesOfPoints) > * decimalToSexagesimal(linesOfPoints) > > I found no time to prepare the stack as library, please just copy the > functions you need or make your own library. > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From hh at hyperhh.de Thu Sep 12 18:01:57 2019 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2019 00:01:57 +0200 Subject: Browser selections Message-ID: <58553D41-1A85-4FF8-A560-71F6B258481E@hyperhh.de> > JLG wrote: > Is there a way select text by script in a browser widget? I thought I'd > done that before but I don't see a command for it now. You certainly didn't that without javascript. Here is a demostack that shows how to do that, only a few lines are needed for using a javascriptHandler: http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?p=174936#p174936 From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Sep 12 18:27:09 2019 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2019 17:27:09 -0500 Subject: Browser selections In-Reply-To: <58553D41-1A85-4FF8-A560-71F6B258481E@hyperhh.de> References: <58553D41-1A85-4FF8-A560-71F6B258481E@hyperhh.de> Message-ID: On 9/12/19 5:01 PM, hh via use-livecode wrote: >> JLG wrote: >> Is there a way select text by script in a browser widget? I thought I'd >> done that before but I don't see a command for it now. > > > You certainly didn't that without javascript. > > Here is a demostack that shows how to do that, only a few lines are > needed for using a javascriptHandler: > > http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?p=174936#p174936 Thanks Hermann. I may have been thinking of a native field, it was a long time ago. I'll take a look at your example. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From hh at hyperhh.de Thu Sep 12 18:46:34 2019 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2019 00:46:34 +0200 Subject: Browser selections Message-ID: <206ED1F2-581A-4766-B590-4D4E64AACF5A@hyperhh.de> Perhaps you wish to select the text (not getting the selected text what is more difficult) of a textarea with id='j1" then you can do: on mouseUp put 10 into selStart; put 20 into selEnd do "document.getElementById('j1')." & \ "setSelectionRange("& selStart,selEnd &");" in widget "browser" end mouseUp p.s. My 'native' HTML5 field works also in a browser widget (it's more difficult to realize because the widget has not as much features available as a browser). I have it ready soon, may be in a few days. From harrison at all-auctions.com Thu Sep 12 21:21:01 2019 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison) Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2019 21:21:01 -0400 Subject: LC Server UT08 Encode Error In-Reply-To: <92f5efcb-003b-627f-dcac-ba3bbffe37af@hyperactivesw.com> References: <92f5efcb-003b-627f-dcac-ba3bbffe37af@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <2E644D16-B6B7-4DD5-B810-A8FD09589AAF@all-auctions.com> I am having a problem with LC Server posting data to my Postgresql database. (LC Server version 9.0.4) If I type into a form field such as for a field named ?description?, and submit the field, it goes into the database without any problems whatsoever. If I compose a description in an application such as Apple?s Pages or in Text Edit, and then copy and paste the text into the description field. It throws an error. ERROR: invalid byte sequence for encoding "UTF8": 0xca 0x59 (0) Of course due to this error the record never gets written out to the database. I know this error is due to gremlins in the text because if I zap gremlins with BBEdit and then copy and paste into the field, everything works fine! I?m sure that other users will probably use a copy and paste method at some point, so I need to scrub the data somehow to prevent the error from occurring. Or is this an encoding/decoding problem requiring some other solution? Suggestions? Rick From waprothero at gmail.com Fri Sep 13 01:23:43 2019 From: waprothero at gmail.com (William Prothero) Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2019 22:23:43 -0700 Subject: BasicGeoLib_v100 In-Reply-To: <335FAEAE-59DB-4DBA-983B-F84B0CAC539C@hyperhh.de> References: <335FAEAE-59DB-4DBA-983B-F84B0CAC539C@hyperhh.de> Message-ID: Nice contribution. Thanks! Bill > On Sep 12, 2019, at 1:16 PM, hh via use-livecode wrote: > > Some specialists may be interested in the following, please report if you have any problem with the stack. > > BasicGeoLib is a collection of very basic functions for using geoPoints. > From jjs at krutt.org Fri Sep 13 06:35:21 2019 From: jjs at krutt.org (JJS) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2019 12:35:21 +0200 Subject: BasicGeoLib_v100 In-Reply-To: References: <335FAEAE-59DB-4DBA-983B-F84B0CAC539C@hyperhh.de> Message-ID: <922b42fe-26c2-0e27-4740-18b9f29218f6@krutt.org> Danke Hermann. I am still planning to use something like this. I have database with all dutch postcode with housenr's and longitudes and latitudes. This is now public information ordered some years ago by a Dutch Federal Judge as the post delivery appealed against this. But it is not easy to find the download, they hide it a bit. Anyway i downloaded it as almost 1GB of csv data which turned into almost 8GB of database data. Took days to convert and upload it. It's around 6000 tables with also each around 6000 to 13000 entries. Right now just used to find a place via postcode (LeitZahl) entry. And there some php examples on the web to calculate what you now have created, these calculations can be tricky. (i know there are also online services for this with json data as reply, some for free until so many calls, but it's nice to be able to do it yourself) Will check it out in time, and hopefully to be used when i expand my application. Thanks a lot! Jerry Op 13-9-2019 om 07:23 schreef William Prothero via use-livecode: > Nice contribution. > Thanks! > Bill > >> On Sep 12, 2019, at 1:16 PM, hh via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Some specialists may be interested in the following, please report if you have any problem with the stack. >> >> BasicGeoLib is a collection of very basic functions for using geoPoints. >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Sep 13 11:01:16 2019 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2019 15:01:16 +0000 Subject: LC Server UT08 Encode Error In-Reply-To: <2E644D16-B6B7-4DD5-B810-A8FD09589AAF@all-auctions.com> References: <92f5efcb-003b-627f-dcac-ba3bbffe37af@hyperactivesw.com> <2E644D16-B6B7-4DD5-B810-A8FD09589AAF@all-auctions.com> Message-ID: <882B3AE5-5FC2-495A-8582-CFA65E7C802A@iotecdigital.com> Based on the source of the data, I'm going to say it's an encoding issue. I cannot imagine that pages is embedding non-printing characters that get past the clipboard. Bob S > On Sep 12, 2019, at 18:21 , Rick Harrison via use-livecode wrote: > > I am having a problem with LC Server > posting data to my Postgresql database. > (LC Server version 9.0.4) > > If I type into a form field such as for > a field named ?description?, and submit > the field, it goes into the database without > any problems whatsoever. > > If I compose a description in an application > such as Apple?s Pages or in Text Edit, and > then copy and paste the text into the > description field. It throws an error. > > ERROR: invalid byte sequence for > encoding "UTF8": 0xca 0x59 (0) > > Of course due to this error the > record never gets written out to > the database. > > I know this error is due to gremlins > in the text because if I zap gremlins > with BBEdit and then copy and > paste into the field, everything > works fine! > > I?m sure that other users will > probably use a copy and paste > method at some point, so I need > to scrub the data somehow to > prevent the error from occurring. > > Or is this an encoding/decoding > problem requiring some other > solution? > > Suggestions? > > Rick > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dsc at swcp.com Fri Sep 13 17:36:30 2019 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott Consulting) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2019 15:36:30 -0600 Subject: LC Server UT08 Encode Error In-Reply-To: <2E644D16-B6B7-4DD5-B810-A8FD09589AAF@all-auctions.com> References: <92f5efcb-003b-627f-dcac-ba3bbffe37af@hyperactivesw.com> <2E644D16-B6B7-4DD5-B810-A8FD09589AAF@all-auctions.com> Message-ID: <64557858-33BC-4C2C-86F6-5325C35394DC@swcp.com> When you Zap Gremlins, are you removing non-ASCII or converting to ASCII? Maybe you can do the same thing before saving to the db. Codes 0xca 0x59 do form an invalid UTF-8 sequence. They are good letters in both Latin-1 and CP1252, so I'm not getting a hint. Wild, wild guess... Are you using an accept-charset attribute in
? Maybe fiddling with that will help. > On Sep 12, 2019, at 7:21 PM, Rick Harrison via use-livecode wrote: > > I am having a problem with LC Server > posting data to my Postgresql database. > (LC Server version 9.0.4) > > If I type into a form field such as for > a field named ?description?, and submit > the field, it goes into the database without > any problems whatsoever. > > If I compose a description in an application > such as Apple?s Pages or in Text Edit, and > then copy and paste the text into the > description field. It throws an error. > > ERROR: invalid byte sequence for > encoding "UTF8": 0xca 0x59 (0) > > Of course due to this error the > record never gets written out to > the database. > > I know this error is due to gremlins > in the text because if I zap gremlins > with BBEdit and then copy and > paste into the field, everything > works fine! > > I?m sure that other users will > probably use a copy and paste > method at some point, so I need > to scrub the data somehow to > prevent the error from occurring. > > Or is this an encoding/decoding > problem requiring some other > solution? > > Suggestions? > > Rick > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From lists at mangomultimedia.com Fri Sep 13 17:37:20 2019 From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2019 16:37:20 -0500 Subject: Stop Integer Coercion to Scientific Notation in JSON In-Reply-To: References: <3042B1E3-9D73-4970-B0FE-F2ACF4775800@hindu.org> Message-ID: On Thu, Sep 12, 2019 at 1:42 PM Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode wrote: > Been working Panos off list. > > There is a caveat, jsonImport and jsonExport not only "display" but > "preserve" the scientific notation as a literal string and math will fail. > > Panos says: must use, (and include in a standalone) mergeJson to > use: jsonToArray and arrayToJSON > While ArrayToJSON does fix the problem you are experiencing, it does introduce additional problems. Try the following code: ``` on mouseUp put 1 is 1 into tValueA["root"]["boolean_1"] put 1 is 0 into tValueA["root"]["boolean_2"] put null into tValueA["root"]["null_1"] put "100" into tValueA["root"]["text"] put 100+0 into tValueA["root"]["number"] put ArrayToJSON(tValueA) end mouseUp ``` The output is as follows: ``` { "root": { "boolean_2": false, "text": 100, "null_1": "", "boolean_1": true, "number": 100 } } ``` ArrayToJSON won't ever quote numbers, even if the variable in LiveCode has the number stored as a string (and not an integer or a real). Imagine a user enters the string "100" into a text field and then your app sends that value to a JSON API. If you send an integer to a JSON API that is expecting a string you will most likely get an error. The output would more appropriately be rendered this way: ``` { "root": { "boolean_2": false, "text": "100", "null_1": null, "boolean_1": true, "number": 100 } } ``` Here is a variation on ArrayToJSON that renders the more appropriate output: ``` function ArrayToJSON pArray,pForceRootType,pPretty local tKey, e repeat for each key tKey in pArray if pArray[tKey] is an array then put "}"&ArrayToJSON(pArray[tKey]) into pArray[tKey] else if pArray[tKey] is NULL then put "null" into pArray[tKey] else if pArray[tKey] is strictly a boolean \ or pArray[tKey] is strictly an integer \ or pArray[tKey] is strictly a real then put pArray[tKey] into pArray[tKey] else # treat as a string put "}}"&pArray[tKey] into pArray[tKey] end if end repeat return(mergJSONEncode("pArray",pForceRootType,pPretty)) end ArrayToJSON ``` In my projects I use this modified version of ArrayToJSON to export JSON and a wrapper around JsonImport to import JSON. In my experience that gets me the closest to expected values. Unfortunately JsonImport is rather slow, but it is more accurate. I don't recall all of the nuances as to why though. Here is my wrapper around JsonImmport: ``` function _importJSON pJSON # zero width joiner breaks JSON Importer # http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19691 replace numtoCodePoint("0x200D") with empty in pJSON return JsonImport(pJSON) end _importJSON ``` -- Trevor DeVore ScreenSteps www.screensteps.com From harrison at all-auctions.com Fri Sep 13 18:10:27 2019 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2019 18:10:27 -0400 Subject: LC Server UT08 Encode Error In-Reply-To: <64557858-33BC-4C2C-86F6-5325C35394DC@swcp.com> References: <92f5efcb-003b-627f-dcac-ba3bbffe37af@hyperactivesw.com> <2E644D16-B6B7-4DD5-B810-A8FD09589AAF@all-auctions.com> <64557858-33BC-4C2C-86F6-5325C35394DC@swcp.com> Message-ID: <8388552B-1CBF-4668-93B1-302FD267E771@all-auctions.com> Hi Bob and Dar, Thanks for getting back to me on this. After going through the LC list archives, I came across a helpful tool called "Unicode Checker? that was originally suggested by Richmond Mathewson. (Thanks for that by the way.) There is a nice little utility inside of it that allowed me to compare the string from Pages that I pasted to the the string that I had cleaned with BBEdit. The only differences found was a 000A and a few 00A0 (NO-BREAK SPACEs). I suspect it is the control character really screwing things up. (I don?t know how it got into the string.) I am not using the accept-charset attribute in the statement. If not specified it is supposed to use the default which I?m guessing is UTF-8. I supposed I could try a test with the attribute specified to see if it makes any difference. Thanks, Rick > On Sep 13, 2019, at 5:36 PM, Dar Scott Consulting via use-livecode wrote: > > When you Zap Gremlins, are you removing non-ASCII or converting to ASCII? Maybe you can do the same thing before saving to the db. > > Codes 0xca 0x59 do form an invalid UTF-8 sequence. They are good letters in both Latin-1 and CP1252, so I'm not getting a hint. > > Wild, wild guess... Are you using an accept-charset attribute in ? Maybe fiddling with that will help. > From dsc at swcp.com Fri Sep 13 20:29:19 2019 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott Consulting) Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2019 18:29:19 -0600 Subject: LC Server UT08 Encode Error In-Reply-To: <8388552B-1CBF-4668-93B1-302FD267E771@all-auctions.com> References: <92f5efcb-003b-627f-dcac-ba3bbffe37af@hyperactivesw.com> <2E644D16-B6B7-4DD5-B810-A8FD09589AAF@all-auctions.com> <64557858-33BC-4C2C-86F6-5325C35394DC@swcp.com> <8388552B-1CBF-4668-93B1-302FD267E771@all-auctions.com> Message-ID: <925DBD5C-FB9E-41A1-9D0C-F81E6DFE9EA4@swcp.com> Yes. A0 looks like the middle of a sequence of UTF-8 bytes for one character. Hitting that will cause an error. I wonder why the db complained about CA and 59. > On Sep 13, 2019, at 4:10 PM, Rick Harrison via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi Bob and Dar, > > Thanks for getting back to me on this. > > After going through the LC list archives, > I came across a helpful tool called > "Unicode Checker? that was originally > suggested by Richmond Mathewson. > (Thanks for that by the way.) > > There is a nice little utility inside of it that > allowed me to compare the string from > Pages that I pasted to the the string that > I had cleaned with BBEdit. The only > differences found was a 000A > and a few 00A0 (NO-BREAK SPACEs). > > I suspect it is the control character really > screwing things up. (I don?t know how > it got into the string.) > > I am not using the accept-charset attribute > in the statement. If not specified > it is supposed to use the default which I?m > guessing is UTF-8. I supposed I could try > a test with the attribute specified to see if > it makes any difference. > > Thanks, > > Rick > > >> On Sep 13, 2019, at 5:36 PM, Dar Scott Consulting via use-livecode wrote: >> >> When you Zap Gremlins, are you removing non-ASCII or converting to ASCII? Maybe you can do the same thing before saving to the db. >> >> Codes 0xca 0x59 do form an invalid UTF-8 sequence. They are good letters in both Latin-1 and CP1252, so I'm not getting a hint. >> >> Wild, wild guess... Are you using an accept-charset attribute in ? Maybe fiddling with that will help. >> > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From mark at livecode.com Mon Sep 16 09:16:25 2019 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2019 14:16:25 +0100 Subject: Test post: Its awfully quiet around here... Message-ID: <0fed00957b96a5c5e162cf0c90df0d91@livecode.com> Testing... -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From dunbarx at aol.com Mon Sep 16 09:23:04 2019 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx at aol.com) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2019 13:23:04 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Test post: Its awfully quiet around here... In-Reply-To: <0fed00957b96a5c5e162cf0c90df0d91@livecode.com> References: <0fed00957b96a5c5e162cf0c90df0d91@livecode.com> Message-ID: <413769711.5332912.1568640184446@mail.yahoo.com> I hear you, Mark. And yes it is. Craig -----Original Message----- From: Mark Waddingham via use-livecode To: How to use LiveCode Cc: Mark Waddingham Sent: Mon, Sep 16, 2019 9:17 am Subject: Test post: Its awfully quiet around here... Testing... -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mkoob at rogers.com Mon Sep 16 09:56:20 2019 From: mkoob at rogers.com (Martin Koob) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2019 09:56:20 -0400 Subject: Test post: Its awfully quiet around here... In-Reply-To: <413769711.5332912.1568640184446@mail.yahoo.com> References: <0fed00957b96a5c5e162cf0c90df0d91@livecode.com> <413769711.5332912.1568640184446@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4FBD7E6B-95E4-4C6C-88CD-5862D666BCD8@rogers.com> We could talk about cheese. Would that be a Gouda topic? :-) Martin Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 16, 2019, at 9:23 AM, dunbarx--- via use-livecode wrote: > > I hear you, Mark. > And yes it is. > Craig > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Waddingham via use-livecode > To: How to use LiveCode > Cc: Mark Waddingham > Sent: Mon, Sep 16, 2019 9:17 am > Subject: Test post: Its awfully quiet around here... > > Testing... > > -- > Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ > LiveCode: Everyone can create apps > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From hh at hyperhh.de Mon Sep 16 10:43:14 2019 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2019 16:43:14 +0200 Subject: Test post: Its awfully quiet around here... Message-ID: <15B9432E-187C-45D8-85BE-DE2F2FDE3A2C@hyperhh.de> @Mark This is the silence(*) that is the same as is with LC (without LCFM) since one year. What about *some* progress at least with ? an up-to-date libbrowser/browser widget that *works* on latest OS of Mac/Win/linux(ubuntu)? ? full keyboard and mouse events support in HTML standalones? ? simple keyboard support in LCB (keypress)? Even rather easy (for you) requests as saving/opening a stack to/from a variable are in the pending jobs (if not in trash)... (*)Except the admirable work of Panos as 'caretaker'. From paul at researchware.com Mon Sep 16 10:40:58 2019 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2019 10:40:58 -0400 Subject: Test post: Its awfully quiet around here... In-Reply-To: <0fed00957b96a5c5e162cf0c90df0d91@livecode.com> References: <0fed00957b96a5c5e162cf0c90df0d91@livecode.com> Message-ID: <923ad376-0bfa-9ffa-a840-a378dbc41083@researchware.com> On 9/16/2019 9:16 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: > Testing... > Not trying to be snide or anything, but I've been too busy posting bugs to the LC quality center and trying to get our 2 commercial applications onto LC905 to post much unless it is related to bugs. From panos.merakos at livecode.com Mon Sep 16 11:07:17 2019 From: panos.merakos at livecode.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2019 18:07:17 +0300 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 194 Message-ID: Hi all, Read about new developments in LiveCode open source and the open source community in today's edition of the "This Week in LiveCode" newsletter! Read issue #194 here: http://bit.ly/2kNuLg6 This is a weekly newsletter about LiveCode, focussing on what's been going on in and around the open source project. New issues will be released weekly on Mondays. We have a dedicated mailing list that will deliver each issue directly to you e-mail, so you don't miss any! If you have anything you'd like mentioned (a project, a discussion somewhere, an upcoming event) then please get in touch. -- Panagiotis Merakos LiveCode Software Developer Everyone Can Create Apps From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Mon Sep 16 11:22:12 2019 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2019 18:22:12 +0300 Subject: Test post: Its awfully quiet around here... In-Reply-To: <0fed00957b96a5c5e162cf0c90df0d91@livecode.com> References: <0fed00957b96a5c5e162cf0c90df0d91@livecode.com> Message-ID: <4bd0faac-f6e5-ac65-ea07-e54e9a57b88c@gmail.com> Really . . . I can provide all the NOISE you want, but you may not like it. Love, kisses, abuse, Richmond. On 16.09.19 16:16, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: > Testing... > From mark at livecode.com Mon Sep 16 11:50:40 2019 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2019 16:50:40 +0100 Subject: Test post: Its awfully quiet around here... In-Reply-To: <4bd0faac-f6e5-ac65-ea07-e54e9a57b88c@gmail.com> References: <0fed00957b96a5c5e162cf0c90df0d91@livecode.com> <4bd0faac-f6e5-ac65-ea07-e54e9a57b88c@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3def7d66e4ea37a289e709c7c5d4586a@livecode.com> On 2019-09-16 16:22, Richmond via use-livecode wrote: > Really . . . I can provide all the NOISE you want, but you may not like > it. > > Love, kisses, abuse, Richmond. I'd expect nothing less from you Richmond :D Needless to say (I'd have thought, anyway...) - this was my attempt at a slightly more jocular way of ensuring the listserv had not decided to fall over again. It is very rare for there not to be a message posted by someone, somewhere, in any 48 hour period, regardless of day of the week... Given the outages due to the server move and subsequent issues last month I thought it reasonable to check :) Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Mon Sep 16 12:00:32 2019 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2019 19:00:32 +0300 Subject: Test post: Its awfully quiet around here... In-Reply-To: <3def7d66e4ea37a289e709c7c5d4586a@livecode.com> References: <0fed00957b96a5c5e162cf0c90df0d91@livecode.com> <4bd0faac-f6e5-ac65-ea07-e54e9a57b88c@gmail.com> <3def7d66e4ea37a289e709c7c5d4586a@livecode.com> Message-ID: <056a2451-d8b1-6751-6e99-ed55466bc4db@gmail.com> As the LiveCode Forums allow one to include zipped files and images it might be that more users are migrating in that direction. Richmond. On 16.09.19 18:50, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: > On 2019-09-16 16:22, Richmond via use-livecode wrote: >> Really . . . I can provide all the NOISE you want, but you may not >> like it. >> >> Love, kisses, abuse, Richmond. > > I'd expect nothing less from you Richmond :D > > Needless to say (I'd have thought, anyway...) - this was my attempt at > a slightly more jocular way of ensuring the listserv had not decided > to fall over again. > > It is very rare for there not to be a message posted by someone, > somewhere, in any 48 hour period, regardless of day of the week... > Given the outages due to the server move and subsequent issues last > month I thought it reasonable to check :) > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > From paul at researchware.com Mon Sep 16 12:10:58 2019 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2019 12:10:58 -0400 Subject: Sorting strangeness Message-ID: <302867bf-30ca-4259-11a4-3b1b42f2d9c2@researchware.com> Okay, here is a Monday morning puzzler for folks: Take the following text: Chinese ?? Georgian ??????? Arabic ???? Greek ???????? Russian ??????? Norwegian Norsk "sort lines of ascending international" produces exactly what is expected: Arabic ???? Chinese ?? Georgian ??????? Greek ???????? Norwegian Norsk Russian ??????? However, "sort lines of ascending text" produces: Arabic ???? Chinese ?? Georgian ??????? Greek ???????? Russian ??????? Norwegian Norsk Now, WHY should Russian appear BEFORE Norwegian with R before N in treating it as a straight ASCII sort ("text")??? Try it yourself in LC9.0.5rc1. Is this a BUG? or should unpredictable results be expected if using a default (as "text" is the default) sort of text in LC9.0.5? From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Mon Sep 16 12:16:25 2019 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2019 16:16:25 +0000 Subject: Sorting strangeness In-Reply-To: <302867bf-30ca-4259-11a4-3b1b42f2d9c2@researchware.com> References: <302867bf-30ca-4259-11a4-3b1b42f2d9c2@researchware.com> Message-ID: <59C43BEE-9DEF-413B-B058-FABF759D0F8E@iotecdigital.com> This does not answer the why, but as far as case specific, you can sort lines of by word 1 of each ascending text Bob S > On Sep 16, 2019, at 09:10 , Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > > Okay, here is a Monday morning puzzler for folks: > > Take the following text: > > Chinese ?? > Georgian ??????? > Arabic ???? > Greek ???????? > Russian ??????? > Norwegian Norsk > > "sort lines of ascending international" produces exactly what is expected: > > Arabic ???? > Chinese ?? > Georgian ??????? > Greek ???????? > Norwegian Norsk > Russian ??????? > > However, "sort lines of ascending text" produces: > > Arabic ???? > Chinese ?? > Georgian ??????? > Greek ???????? > Russian ??????? > Norwegian Norsk > > Now, WHY should Russian appear BEFORE Norwegian with R before N in treating it as a straight ASCII sort ("text")??? > > Try it yourself in LC9.0.5rc1. Is this a BUG? or should unpredictable results be expected if using a default (as "text" is the default) sort of text in LC9.0.5? > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From patrick.roza at gmail.com Mon Sep 16 12:23:13 2019 From: patrick.roza at gmail.com (Patrick Roza) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2019 12:23:13 -0400 Subject: Writing a Book on LiveCode need your help Message-ID: Hi everyone, Looking for suggestions for a new book. All of us have read or viewed tutorials to help you learn LiveCode. I am looking for what you think was missed or could be better for my book. Thanks, Patrick From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Mon Sep 16 12:49:00 2019 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Eller, Roger) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2019 16:49:00 +0000 Subject: Writing a Book on LiveCode need your help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It would be very niche, but a book that details working with Raspberry Pi and robotics with LiveCode would be awesome. ~Roger ________________________________ From: use-livecode on behalf of Patrick Roza via use-livecode Sent: Monday, September 16, 2019 12:23 PM To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Cc: Patrick Roza Subject: Writing a Book on LiveCode need your help CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. Hi everyone, Looking for suggestions for a new book. All of us have read or viewed tutorials to help you learn LiveCode. I am looking for what you think was missed or could be better for my book. Thanks, Patrick _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.runrev.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fuse-livecode&data=02%7C01%7Croger.e.eller%40sealedair.com%7C9923d3f24741439c67bd08d73ac215dc%7C2691a2514c384643af0b0c0982f197bd%7C0%7C1%7C637042477575204402&sdata=zRPSWZX5IIdwOtghnd2sCdm0V%2FGlZMjKgqKc5x4hINk%3D&reserved=0 From curry at pair.com Mon Sep 16 13:01:42 2019 From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2019 13:01:42 -0400 Subject: LC Luvv Da Buggs - Greatest Hits - "Player" Message-ID: Who would have thought the old player to have had so much bugs in it? Enough per square inch to rival a rowdy case of mange? Makes me wanna hear somebody sing the blues.... ?? Check out how many bug tracks are included! The bugs will play all night, while you work around to get it right.... Artist: LC Luvv Da Buggs Album: "Player" ? Can't stop now - after your touch https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22282 (Extra play after endTime sans currentTimeChanged) ? Throw it all away; it's just a selection https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22283 (Selection lost when clicking timeline) ? Ain't gonna repeat myself https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22284 (Play button unresponsive at endTime) ? Don't follow me, or someone will get hurt (me) https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22248 (currentTimeChanged only sent to last of any players with same path) ? This can't be the end - gotta keep on keepin' on https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22360 (Player with playSelection true does not stop at endTime) ? I ain't playin' (better stop before we get started) https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22361 (Player jumps to duration upon reaching startTime) ? I can't keep going, it's still the end my friend https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22362 (Player jumps to duration upon reaching endTime) ? Let's skip the beginning, baby (can't wait) https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22363 (Player restarts past initial content) ? You can't see me, but I'm in control - maybe https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22353 (Controller disappears after Mac window resize) ? March to my own beat (anybody got the time?) https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22364 (Content does not match currentTime after playSelection is changed) ? Not made for this world - gone in a flash https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22333 (Selection handles too fragile to survive actual use) ? We can't rush this (nor can we slow it down, baby) https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22075 (playRate not working for MP3s on Windows) ? Hey world, look at me now https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22105 (Player Controller Bar parts drawn on top of everything) Yep, the player is squared away! Best wishes, Curry K. From jjs at krutt.org Mon Sep 16 13:27:21 2019 From: jjs at krutt.org (JJS) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2019 19:27:21 +0200 Subject: Sorting strangeness In-Reply-To: <59C43BEE-9DEF-413B-B058-FABF759D0F8E@iotecdigital.com> References: <302867bf-30ca-4259-11a4-3b1b42f2d9c2@researchware.com> <59C43BEE-9DEF-413B-B058-FABF759D0F8E@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <669d79d2-6d97-404e-f2ab-cce677b67f6d@krutt.org> you sir, have a sharp eye. Jerry J Op 16-9-2019 om 18:16 schreef Bob Sneidar via use-livecode: > This does not answer the why, but as far as case specific, you can sort lines of by word 1 of each ascending text > > Bob S > > >> On Sep 16, 2019, at 09:10 , Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Okay, here is a Monday morning puzzler for folks: >> >> Take the following text: >> >> Chinese ?? >> Georgian ??????? >> Arabic ???? >> Greek ???????? >> Russian ??????? >> Norwegian Norsk >> >> "sort lines of ascending international" produces exactly what is expected: >> >> Arabic ???? >> Chinese ?? >> Georgian ??????? >> Greek ???????? >> Norwegian Norsk >> Russian ??????? >> >> However, "sort lines of ascending text" produces: >> >> Arabic ???? >> Chinese ?? >> Georgian ??????? >> Greek ???????? >> Russian ??????? >> Norwegian Norsk >> >> Now, WHY should Russian appear BEFORE Norwegian with R before N in treating it as a straight ASCII sort ("text")??? >> >> Try it yourself in LC9.0.5rc1. Is this a BUG? or should unpredictable results be expected if using a default (as "text" is the default) sort of text in LC9.0.5? >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dan at clearvisiontech.com Mon Sep 16 13:29:58 2019 From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2019 17:29:58 +0000 Subject: WARNING ITMS-90339 Message-ID: Greetings! FYI, I got this message in Application Uploader this morning: WARNING ITMS-90339: "Deprecated Info.plist Key. The Info.plist contains a key 'UIApplicationExitsOnSuspend' in bundle YourAPP [YourAPP.app] that will soon be unsupported. Remove the key, rebuild your app and resubmit." I assume LC is aware of this and is working on a solution. But, thought I would post anyway. -Dan From jjs at krutt.org Mon Sep 16 13:36:02 2019 From: jjs at krutt.org (JJS) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2019 19:36:02 +0200 Subject: Writing a Book on LiveCode need your help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <62a70b54-42bc-6264-0c0e-68793fe03384@krutt.org> A lot of examples for LC server would be great. Yes there are some, in the lessons, on samples.on.rev.com and there is a guide on https://livecode.com/resources/guides/server/ which you can hardly call a guide as it only explains a bit how to install. So there are very very few examples for lc server in my opinion Best, Jerry J Op 16-9-2019 om 18:23 schreef Patrick Roza via use-livecode: > Hi everyone, > > Looking for suggestions for a new book. All of us have read or viewed > tutorials to help you learn LiveCode. I am looking for what you think was > missed or could be better for my book. > > Thanks, > > Patrick > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at researchware.com Mon Sep 16 13:58:07 2019 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2019 13:58:07 -0400 Subject: LC Luvv Da Buggs - Greatest Hits - "Player" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <64d64480-9629-b4ba-8c59-0386a7febd56@researchware.com> A very entertaining way to present such a sad list :-) Between these and the lengthy list of Unicode bugs... sigh. On 9/16/2019 1:01 PM, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode wrote: > > Who would have thought the old player to have had so much bugs in it? > > Enough per square inch to rival a rowdy case of mange? > > Makes me wanna hear somebody sing the blues.... ?? > > Check out how many bug tracks are included! The bugs will play all > night, while you work around to get it right.... > > Artist: LC Luvv Da Buggs > Album: "Player" > > ? Can't stop now - after your touch > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22282 > (Extra play after endTime sans currentTimeChanged) > > ? Throw it all away; it's just a selection > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22283 > (Selection lost when clicking timeline) > > ? Ain't gonna repeat myself > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22284 > (Play button unresponsive at endTime) > > ? Don't follow me, or someone will get hurt (me) > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22248 > (currentTimeChanged only sent to last of any players with same path) > > ? This can't be the end - gotta keep on keepin' on > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22360 > (Player with playSelection true does not stop at endTime) > > ? I ain't playin' (better stop before we get started) > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22361 > (Player jumps to duration upon reaching startTime) > > ? I can't keep going, it's still the end my friend > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22362 > (Player jumps to duration upon reaching endTime) > > ? Let's skip the beginning, baby (can't wait) > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22363 > (Player restarts past initial content) > > ? You can't see me, but I'm in control - maybe > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22353 > (Controller disappears after Mac window resize) > > ? March to my own beat (anybody got the time?) > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22364 > (Content does not match currentTime after playSelection is changed) > > ? Not made for this world - gone in a flash > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22333 > (Selection handles too fragile to survive actual use) > > ? We can't rush this (nor can we slow it down, baby) > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22075 > (playRate not working for MP3s on Windows) > > ? Hey world, look at me now > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22105 > (Player Controller Bar parts drawn on top of everything) > > Yep, the player is squared away! > > Best wishes, > > Curry K. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at researchware.com Mon Sep 16 14:01:43 2019 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2019 14:01:43 -0400 Subject: Sorting strangeness In-Reply-To: <59C43BEE-9DEF-413B-B058-FABF759D0F8E@iotecdigital.com> References: <302867bf-30ca-4259-11a4-3b1b42f2d9c2@researchware.com> <59C43BEE-9DEF-413B-B058-FABF759D0F8E@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <09673583-a63f-ab56-e5b9-062e5644f821@researchware.com> Thanks Bob for being one of the folks on the list who always tries to offer a solutions for people. That said, I have solutions a plenty. My real question is for LIVECODE, LTD or perhaps someone like Mark Waddingham who could actually tell whether this is the expected behavior (not a BUG, but probably should be documented) or an aberrant behavior (a BUG and should be reported) On 9/16/2019 12:16 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > This does not answer the why, but as far as case specific, you can sort lines of by word 1 of each ascending text > > Bob S > > >> On Sep 16, 2019, at 09:10 , Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Okay, here is a Monday morning puzzler for folks: >> >> Take the following text: >> >> Chinese ?? >> Georgian ??????? >> Arabic ???? >> Greek ???????? >> Russian ??????? >> Norwegian Norsk >> >> "sort lines of ascending international" produces exactly what is expected: >> >> Arabic ???? >> Chinese ?? >> Georgian ??????? >> Greek ???????? >> Norwegian Norsk >> Russian ??????? >> >> However, "sort lines of ascending text" produces: >> >> Arabic ???? >> Chinese ?? >> Georgian ??????? >> Greek ???????? >> Russian ??????? >> Norwegian Norsk >> >> Now, WHY should Russian appear BEFORE Norwegian with R before N in treating it as a straight ASCII sort ("text")??? >> >> Try it yourself in LC9.0.5rc1. Is this a BUG? or should unpredictable results be expected if using a default (as "text" is the default) sort of text in LC9.0.5? >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dsc at swcp.com Mon Sep 16 14:32:58 2019 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott Consulting) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2019 12:32:58 -0600 Subject: Sorting strangeness In-Reply-To: <302867bf-30ca-4259-11a4-3b1b42f2d9c2@researchware.com> References: <302867bf-30ca-4259-11a4-3b1b42f2d9c2@researchware.com> Message-ID: I love puzzles. The dictionary says the "text" sort is a codePoint, which I understand as raw. I did a codePoint dump on the original text and got this (decimal): 67 104 105 110 101 115 101 32 20013 25991 10 71 101 111 114 103 105 97 110 32 4325 4304 4320 4311 4323 4314 4312 10 65 114 97 98 105 99 32 1593 1585 1576 1609 10 71 114 101 101 107 32 917 955 955 951 957 953 954 940 10 82 117 115 115 105 97 110 32 1088 1091 1089 1089 1082 1080 1081 10 78 111 114 119 101 103 105 97 110 32 78 111 114 115 107 You can see the first codePoint is in the ASCII subset and should sort ASCII based on the dictionary description. I even dumped each line separately and got consistent results. I tried removing all lines except the two interesting ones and then removing the Russian from the Russian line. That sorted as expected. I think the dictionary description is wrong. My locale is US English. Dar Scott Owner Dar Scott Consulting [Services] Mad Scientist darzLab > On Sep 16, 2019, at 10:10 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > > Okay, here is a Monday morning puzzler for folks: > > Take the following text: > > Chinese ?? > Georgian ??????? > Arabic ???? > Greek ???????? > Russian ??????? > Norwegian Norsk > > "sort lines of ascending international" produces exactly what is expected: > > Arabic ???? > Chinese ?? > Georgian ??????? > Greek ???????? > Norwegian Norsk > Russian ??????? > > However, "sort lines of ascending text" produces: > > Arabic ???? > Chinese ?? > Georgian ??????? > Greek ???????? > Russian ??????? > Norwegian Norsk > > Now, WHY should Russian appear BEFORE Norwegian with R before N in treating it as a straight ASCII sort ("text")??? > > Try it yourself in LC9.0.5rc1. Is this a BUG? or should unpredictable results be expected if using a default (as "text" is the default) sort of text in LC9.0.5? > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From tom at makeshyft.com Mon Sep 16 14:39:39 2019 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2019 14:39:39 -0400 Subject: Writing a Book on LiveCode need your help In-Reply-To: <62a70b54-42bc-6264-0c0e-68793fe03384@krutt.org> References: <62a70b54-42bc-6264-0c0e-68793fe03384@krutt.org> Message-ID: Good idea!! Reading a book cover to cover is way underrated. I've always done it that way, read the LC manual cover to cover. Learning Rust, so I ordered a book to read in bed. (Although its missing)...lol) Working with Rest APIs would be a good section Optimizing for graphics intensive stuff like games and other applications (layer modes, tips & tricks) I look forward to new LC students having your book as a resource. On Mon, Sep 16, 2019 at 1:36 PM JJS via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > A lot of examples for LC server would be great. > > Yes there are some, in the lessons, on samples.on.rev.com and there is a > guide on https://livecode.com/resources/guides/server/ > > which you can hardly call a guide as it only explains a bit how to install. > > So there are very very few examples for lc server in my opinion > > > Best, > > Jerry J > > > Op 16-9-2019 om 18:23 schreef Patrick Roza via use-livecode: > > Hi everyone, > > > > Looking for suggestions for a new book. All of us have read or viewed > > tutorials to help you learn LiveCode. I am looking for what you think was > > missed or could be better for my book. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Patrick > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From mark at livecode.com Mon Sep 16 14:45:30 2019 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2019 19:45:30 +0100 Subject: Sorting strangeness In-Reply-To: <09673583-a63f-ab56-e5b9-062e5644f821@researchware.com> References: <302867bf-30ca-4259-11a4-3b1b42f2d9c2@researchware.com> <59C43BEE-9DEF-413B-B058-FABF759D0F8E@iotecdigital.com> <09673583-a63f-ab56-e5b9-062e5644f821@researchware.com> Message-ID: <143c1eebf1029a5cf370f97d5216e58b@livecode.com> On 2019-09-16 19:01, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > Thanks Bob for being one of the folks on the list who always tries to > offer a solutions for people. > > That said, I have solutions a plenty. My real question is for > LIVECODE, LTD or perhaps someone like Mark Waddingham who could > actually tell whether this is the expected behavior (not a BUG, but > probably should be documented) or an aberrant behavior (a BUG and > should be reported) Its definitely a bug - sorting a field with that content works correctly, but sorting a variable doesn't. After staring at the string for a while it occurred to me that the line which is sorting incorrectly is all ASCII - "Norwegian Norsk" - indeed the following causes the string to sort correctly again: sort ascending text by (each & (numToCodepoint(0xFFEF))) When sort is done, it first splits the input string into separate strings - one for each line. In this case the "Norwegian Norsk" line becomes a native string, whereas all the others are unicode. The above forces all lines on which the string is sorted to be forced to unicode so the bug doesn't manifest. Poking around some more, this also seems to work correctly: set the caseSensitive to true sort ascending text So there appears to be a difference between the sort keys being generated for unicode and native strings - at least when caseSensitive is false. The field case works because the field coerces all content to unicode (as the text APIs on all platforms take UTF-16 these days), and I believe there is an optimization in place if you sort a field by lines - it doesn't have to cut anything up, it just uses the backing string from each paragraph. I have a feeling I know precisely where the problem lies, so if you file a bug (for once) we should be able to fix it quite rapidly. Warmest Regards, Mark. P.S. Another way to get the correct result is to do this (which is essentially what the engine does internally if caseSensitive is true): set the caseSensitive to true sort ascending text by toLower(each) -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From paul at researchware.com Mon Sep 16 16:54:42 2019 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2019 16:54:42 -0400 Subject: Sorting strangeness In-Reply-To: <143c1eebf1029a5cf370f97d5216e58b@livecode.com> References: <302867bf-30ca-4259-11a4-3b1b42f2d9c2@researchware.com> <59C43BEE-9DEF-413B-B058-FABF759D0F8E@iotecdigital.com> <09673583-a63f-ab56-e5b9-062e5644f821@researchware.com> <143c1eebf1029a5cf370f97d5216e58b@livecode.com> Message-ID: <22897bef-4692-8acd-9c6d-ff929f8b4123@researchware.com> Mark, Thank you, as always, for your incredible depth of knowledge of the engine! Bug filed: https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22378 with sample stack and your comments. If I can impose on you, I have one more question related to this topic: IF sort lines of ascending text was working correctly for lines of mixed ASCII and Unicode, for someone sorting lines of text that can be Native text, Unicode text (both RTL and LTR), or mixtures of both, is it better to use SORT ... TEXT or SORT ... INTERNATIONAL? I don't know enough about what the "international" (using the system locale settings)? and Unicode may mean in relation to one another? Thank you again, Paul Dupuis Researchware On 9/16/2019 2:45 PM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: > On 2019-09-16 19:01, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: >> Thanks Bob for being one of the folks on the list who always tries to >> offer a solutions for people. >> >> That said, I have solutions a plenty. My real question is for >> LIVECODE, LTD or perhaps someone like Mark Waddingham who could >> actually tell whether this is the expected behavior (not a BUG, but >> probably should be documented) or an aberrant behavior (a BUG and >> should be reported) > > Its definitely a bug - sorting a field with that content works > correctly, but sorting a variable doesn't. > > After staring at the string for a while it occurred to me that the > line which is sorting incorrectly is all ASCII - "Norwegian Norsk" - > indeed the following causes the string to sort correctly again: > > ? sort ascending text by (each & > (numToCodepoint(0xFFEF))) > > When sort is done, it first splits the input string into separate > strings - one for each line. In this case the "Norwegian Norsk" line > becomes a native string, whereas all the others are unicode. The above > forces all lines on which the string is sorted to be forced to unicode > so the bug doesn't manifest. > > Poking around some more, this also seems to work correctly: > > ? set the caseSensitive to true > ? sort ascending text > > So there appears to be a difference between the sort keys being > generated for unicode and native strings - at least when caseSensitive > is false. > > The field case works because the field coerces all content to unicode > (as the text APIs on all platforms take UTF-16 these days), and I > believe there is an optimization in place if you sort a field by lines > - it doesn't have to cut anything up, it just uses the backing string > from each paragraph. > > I have a feeling I know precisely where the problem lies, so if you > file a bug (for once) we should be able to fix it quite rapidly. > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > > P.S. Another way to get the correct result is to do this (which is > essentially what the engine does internally if caseSensitive is true): > ? set the caseSensitive to true > ? sort ascending text by toLower(each) > > From ahsoftware at sonic.net Mon Sep 16 17:40:34 2019 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2019 14:40:34 -0700 Subject: Writing a Book on LiveCode need your help In-Reply-To: References: <62a70b54-42bc-6264-0c0e-68793fe03384@krutt.org> Message-ID: <00eb2ea3-a196-58df-e16f-808e771160ef@sonic.net> On 9/16/19 11:39 AM, Tom Glod via use-livecode wrote: Learning Rust, so I ordered a book to read in bed. LOL. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From tom at makeshyft.com Mon Sep 16 20:03:37 2019 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2019 20:03:37 -0400 Subject: Writing a Book on LiveCode need your help In-Reply-To: <00eb2ea3-a196-58df-e16f-808e771160ef@sonic.net> References: <62a70b54-42bc-6264-0c0e-68793fe03384@krutt.org> <00eb2ea3-a196-58df-e16f-808e771160ef@sonic.net> Message-ID: hahaha..perfect. On Mon, Sep 16, 2019 at 5:41 PM Mark Wieder via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On 9/16/19 11:39 AM, Tom Glod via use-livecode wrote: > > Learning Rust, so I ordered a book to read in bed. > > LOL. > > > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From waprothero at gmail.com Mon Sep 16 21:23:13 2019 From: waprothero at gmail.com (William Prothero) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2019 18:23:13 -0700 Subject: Writing a Book on LiveCode need your help In-Reply-To: References: <62a70b54-42bc-6264-0c0e-68793fe03384@krutt.org> <00eb2ea3-a196-58df-e16f-808e771160ef@sonic.net> Message-ID: <47A57D82-CBC9-40E1-8387-26065FA0DBDB@gmail.com> Patrick: I also would find a book that covered server resident apps. I know HTML5 is in progress (I think) so regular updating may need to fit into your plans, as well. Hermann has produced some wonderful examples that combine Javascript and LC. Anyway, you will have to think about whether HTML5 is advanced enough to justify a book that will hopefully get out of date pretty quickly. Best, Bill > On Sep 16, 2019, at 5:03 PM, Tom Glod via use-livecode wrote: > > hahaha..perfect. > > On Mon, Sep 16, 2019 at 5:41 PM Mark Wieder via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> On 9/16/19 11:39 AM, Tom Glod via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Learning Rust, so I ordered a book to read in bed. >> >> LOL. >> >> >> >> -- >> Mark Wieder >> ahsoftware at gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Sep 16 22:13:55 2019 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2019 19:13:55 -0700 Subject: LC Luvv Da Buggs - Greatest Hits - "Player" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I wish I had problems like that. For the last several years LC won't play audio or video files at all, leaving us with this remake of what has become a golden oldie: Ain't Got Nothin' https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18757 -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Curry wrote: > Who would have thought the old player to have had so much bugs in it? > > Enough per square inch to rival a rowdy case of mange? > > Makes me wanna hear somebody sing the blues.... ?? > > Check out how many bug tracks are included! The bugs will play all > night, while you work around to get it right.... > > Artist: LC Luvv Da Buggs > Album: "Player" > > ? Can't stop now - after your touch > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22282 > (Extra play after endTime sans currentTimeChanged) > > ? Throw it all away; it's just a selection > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22283 > (Selection lost when clicking timeline) > > ? Ain't gonna repeat myself > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22284 > (Play button unresponsive at endTime) > > ? Don't follow me, or someone will get hurt (me) > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22248 > (currentTimeChanged only sent to last of any players with same path) > > ? This can't be the end - gotta keep on keepin' on > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22360 > (Player with playSelection true does not stop at endTime) > > ? I ain't playin' (better stop before we get started) > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22361 > (Player jumps to duration upon reaching startTime) > > ? I can't keep going, it's still the end my friend > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22362 > (Player jumps to duration upon reaching endTime) > > ? Let's skip the beginning, baby (can't wait) > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22363 > (Player restarts past initial content) > > ? You can't see me, but I'm in control - maybe > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22353 > (Controller disappears after Mac window resize) > > ? March to my own beat (anybody got the time?) > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22364 > (Content does not match currentTime after playSelection is changed) > > ? Not made for this world - gone in a flash > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22333 > (Selection handles too fragile to survive actual use) > > ? We can't rush this (nor can we slow it down, baby) > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22075 > (playRate not working for MP3s on Windows) > > ? Hey world, look at me now > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22105 > (Player Controller Bar parts drawn on top of everything) > > Yep, the player is squared away! > > Best wishes, > > Curry K. From mkoob at rogers.com Tue Sep 17 09:42:34 2019 From: mkoob at rogers.com (Martin Koob) Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2019 09:42:34 -0400 Subject: WARNING ITMS-90339 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5498E15D-DF3B-46BC-916C-076C511ABAA1@rogers.com> Hi Dan Thanks for the heads up. It would probably be better to post this as a bug on quality.livecode.com so it gets into the queue for getting fixed. Regards, Martin Koob > On Sep 16, 2019, at 1:29 PM, Dan Friedman via use-livecode wrote: > > Greetings! FYI, I got this message in Application Uploader this morning: > > WARNING ITMS-90339: "Deprecated Info.plist Key. The Info.plist contains a key 'UIApplicationExitsOnSuspend' in bundle YourAPP [YourAPP.app] that will soon be unsupported. Remove the key, rebuild your app and resubmit." > > I assume LC is aware of this and is working on a solution. But, thought I would post anyway. > > -Dan > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Tue Sep 17 09:54:05 2019 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2019 09:54:05 -0400 Subject: WARNING ITMS-90339 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001601d56d5f$6236b1d0$26a41570$@net> This is a warning. The most current iOS versions WILL NOT ever exit on suspend and close the app thus making this key obsolete. The rub is...If this key is eliminated too soon from the LC manifest then pre iOS 12 devices WILL exit on suspend. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Dan Friedman via use-livecode Sent: Monday, September 16, 2019 1:30 PM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: Dan Friedman Subject: WARNING ITMS-90339 Greetings! FYI, I got this message in Application Uploader this morning: WARNING ITMS-90339: "Deprecated Info.plist Key. The Info.plist contains a key 'UIApplicationExitsOnSuspend' in bundle YourAPP [YourAPP.app] that will soon be unsupported. Remove the key, rebuild your app and resubmit." I assume LC is aware of this and is working on a solution. But, thought I would post anyway. -Dan _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From patrick.roza at gmail.com Tue Sep 17 15:40:37 2019 From: patrick.roza at gmail.com (Patrick Roza) Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2019 15:40:37 -0400 Subject: Ideas for my book. Message-ID: First, let me say many of you gave some great input. So let me follow with this. I see an interest in: Raspberry PI LiveCode server Did not see anything on widgets or plugins? So here is are some questions for the group. 1. When you were learning LiveCode what was the hardest to learn and why? 2. What do you think is the main advantage of LiveCode over other programming languages? 3. Do you think LiveCode is better than Python and why? I am just curious and want everybody to give me great input to develop a great book. Thanks Patrick From paul at researchware.com Tue Sep 17 16:05:45 2019 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2019 16:05:45 -0400 Subject: Guess encoding for text file... Message-ID: <5dd4041c-2c6a-91e0-8ad5-1c9a87d546ce@researchware.com> I started this post of the DEV-LIST. Mark Waddingham kindly responded and smartly suggested I should move it to the USE-LIST, so that is what I am doing. I have also pasted Lark's reply below my original post. ---------------------- ORIGINAL POST ---------------------------------------- I have a LiveCode Script (LCS) routine that attempts to follow industry common algorithms for guessing the encoding of a text file. It's performance can be slower than I would like. This has led me to wonder in a LiveCode Builder (LCB) library may be the route to go. Does anyone know the OSX and/or Windows APIs for guessing a text file's encoding? I have done a number of google searches, but I am not a C programmer (not in many decades) and wading through the huge doc sets at MSDN or Apple is daunting. I found reference to a windows API: BOOL IsTextUnicode( const VOID *lpv, int iSize, LPINT lpiResult ); Which suggests to me that such APIs may exists. Does anyone who is better at finding OS APIs know where to find such APIs? Can you point me to the right online documentation? I also found this: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/3825390/effective-way-to-find-any-files-encoding Of course, it would be wonderful if the mothership delivered this. At one point Frasier said he would back around LC7 something. https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14474 It seems an LCB library that uses OS APIs to return best guess for file encoding that match up with the textEncode/Decode functions would be a great addition to LC ?* "ASCII" ?* "UTF-16" ?* "UTF-16BE" ?* "UTF-16LE" ?* "UTF-32" ?* "UTF-32BE" ?* "UTF-32LE" ?* "UTF-8" ?* "CP1252" ?* "ISO-8859-1" ?* "MacRoman" and I suppose "Binary" as the default if none of the above can be detected ----------------- MARK'S REPLY ---------------------------------------- On 2019-09-13 16:44, Paul Dupuis wrote: > I have a LiveCode Script (LCS) routine that attempts to follow > industry common algorithms for guessing the encoding of a text file. > > It's performance can be slower than I would like. If you share your code perhaps we can help speed it up... > This has led me to wonder in a LiveCode Builder (LCB) library may be > the route to go. Does anyone know the OSX and/or Windows APIs for > guessing a text file's encoding? > > I have done a number of google searches, but I am not a C programmer > (not in many decades) and wading through the huge doc sets at MSDN or > Apple is daunting. > > I found reference to a windows API: > > BOOL IsTextUnicode( >?? const VOID *lpv, >?? int??????? iSize, >?? LPINT????? lpiResult > ); > >? Which suggests to me that such APIs may exists. Does anyone who is > better at finding OS APIs know where to find such APIs? Can you point > me to the right online documentation? Libraries certainly exist: Mozilla has a 'universal charset detector library' for example, which appears to use various statistical heuristics to tell between all kinds of encodings. The 'IsTextUnicode' API seems to just tell you whether a sequence of bytes is likely to be UTF-16 or not UTF-16; so probably won't be all that helpful if that isn't all you are wanting to distinguish between. Do you have a list of encodings you are needing to guess between? That will generally influence how fast (and accurate) you can make such a function (its almost trivial to detect UTF-8 with a high degree of confidence, UTF-32 I think as well, UTF-16 is somewhat harder, and distinguishing between single-byte and legacy multi-byte charsets is, relatively speaking, very hard). Warmest Regards, Mark. P.S. This might be a better discussion to have on the use-list unless there is a reason not to, it might be of interest to others in that wider group. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps _______________________________________________ livecode-dev mailing list livecode-dev at lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/livecode-dev From jjs at krutt.org Tue Sep 17 16:36:44 2019 From: jjs at krutt.org (JJS) Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2019 22:36:44 +0200 Subject: Ideas for my book. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9e713140-a419-79f5-9a50-a1225736b4eb@krutt.org> Op 17-9-2019 om 21:40 schreef Patrick Roza via use-livecode: > First, let me say many of you gave some great input. So let me follow with > this. > > I see an interest in: > > Raspberry PI > LiveCode server > > Did not see anything on widgets or plugins? > > So here is are some questions for the group. > > 1. When you were learning LiveCode what was the hardest to learn and why? > /Not difficult per se, depends on what you do or want. It has an easy > entry and learns you a bit to read other languages. Then the DAtagrid > a bit more, but i can use it now for the needs i have. Strungling a > bit now with LC server in combination with HTML, i doubting if i > should go PHP or LCserver and and use revigniter or not As Revigniter > looks promising, but has also a learning path. Did the LCB lessons but > still don't know how to start on any library to use from other > languages. How to use a dll, how to start. LCB is for most people i > think not easy./ > > 2. What do you think is the main advantage of LiveCode over other > programming languages? /It's good to read, quick to understand. Even for non native english folks/ /For audio it's not suitable (audio creating/vst virtual instruments), maybe when it could be combined with JUCE, but that is C++ based./ /For Audio i? iked Synthmaker/Flowstone but that is as good as dead since a while, killed by love and taking the wrong path(robotics) / > > > 3. Do you think LiveCode is better than Python and why? > /I don't know, but i have had doubts on starting to learn Kotlin/Java > as it is also multiple platform. and probably more possibilities to > implement when it comes to Android. But whole lot more difficult to > write. Livecode is far more easy to remember./ > I am just curious and want everybody to give me great input to develop a > great book. > > Thanks Patrick > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ahsoftware at sonic.net Tue Sep 17 18:04:10 2019 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2019 15:04:10 -0700 Subject: Ideas for my book. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2550bfac-5135-d235-8bee-b6bc6bf94d60@sonic.net> On 9/17/19 12:40 PM, Patrick Roza via use-livecode wrote: > First, let me say many of you gave some great input. So let me follow with > this. > > I see an interest in: > > Raspberry PI > LiveCode server > > Did not see anything on widgets or plugins? > > So here is are some questions for the group. > > 1. When you were learning LiveCode what was the hardest to learn and why? For LC scripting proper, it's been too long now, so I'm mostly going to stay out of that one. With regard to LCB, the documentation is sparse, hard to find (as in spread out in too many places), and incomplete. The lack of parity with LCS scripting features (e.g. why is there no switch statement?), the rudimentary debugging ability, the ffi awkwardness, are all impediments. > 2. What do you think is the main advantage of LiveCode over other > programming languages? See below. Also I'm four or five times more productive coding in LC than in other languages/platforms. By the time I've thought something through to a prototyping stage I pretty much have a working application. > 3. Do you think LiveCode is better than Python and why? I don't. I think each has its place. If I'm going to be mostly working with text manipulation then LC has an edge over *everything* else. Even if I have to plug in some regex. Python, on the other hand, has an awesome set of scientfic and math libraries and is quite fast. In a previous position we moved some code from a MathLab backend to Python for speed, ease of maintenance, and better fit into our Agile workflow. I do quite a bit of Ruby coding. I do things in Ruby that are impossible in LiveCode. I also do things in Ruby that would be difficult in LiveCode because of the vast array of gems available to extend the capabilities of the basic system. And I also do things in LiveCode that would be a real pain in Ruby. My general approach is "can I do this in LiveCode? If not, look at alternatives". -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Tue Sep 17 18:29:33 2019 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2019 17:29:33 -0500 Subject: Ideas for my book. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5f8e068d-ecd3-c08a-71f6-8968b9abe915@hyperactivesw.com> I think the first question should be: what assumptions will the book make? Will you assume familiarity with LC syntax and structure and plan to expand on various subcategories (server, pi, multi-media, etc?) Or is it aimed at beginners who have never programmed? Or maybe it's for experienced developers who know other languages but want to learn what's different in LC? That would narrow down the choices for the material you plan to present. Who's the audience? On 9/17/19 2:40 PM, Patrick Roza via use-livecode wrote: > First, let me say many of you gave some great input. So let me follow with > this. > > I see an interest in: > > Raspberry PI > LiveCode server > > Did not see anything on widgets or plugins? > > So here is are some questions for the group. > > 1. When you were learning LiveCode what was the hardest to learn and why? > > > 2. What do you think is the main advantage of LiveCode over other > programming languages? > > > 3. Do you think LiveCode is better than Python and why? > > I am just curious and want everybody to give me great input to develop a > great book. > > Thanks Patrick > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From curry at pair.com Tue Sep 17 18:45:05 2019 From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy) Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2019 18:45:05 -0400 Subject: Guess encoding for text file... In-Reply-To: <5dd4041c-2c6a-91e0-8ad5-1c9a87d546ce@researchware.com> References: <5dd4041c-2c6a-91e0-8ad5-1c9a87d546ce@researchware.com> Message-ID: <923642af-0315-7b02-eef5-025ef36f7dae@pair.com> Paul: > I have a LiveCode Script (LCS) routine that attempts to > follow industry common algorithms for guessing the encoding > of a text file. > It's performance can be slower than I would like. Howdy, Even though LC 9 is exceedingly slow on some operations -(cough, cough, ahem, that's a topic in itself)- HOWEVER, I believe it's quite capable of satisfactory performance in this particular area without needing LCB, much less C. Pretty sure I can optimize your legacy routine to work just fine. It simply wasn't designed for huge files, nor for LC 9's slow-mo loop speed, but that could be easily remedied with a few tweaks! Best wishes, Curry Kenworthy Custom Software Development "Better Methods, Better Results" LiveCode Training and Consulting http://livecodeconsulting.com/ From chipsm at themartinz.com Tue Sep 17 21:11:24 2019 From: chipsm at themartinz.com (chipsm at themartinz.com) Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2019 18:11:24 -0700 Subject: Ideas for my book. In-Reply-To: <5f8e068d-ecd3-c08a-71f6-8968b9abe915@hyperactivesw.com> References: <5f8e068d-ecd3-c08a-71f6-8968b9abe915@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <03a301d56dbd$fdd92290$f98b67b0$@themartinz.com> I have referenced many books about programming over the years. I would thin that this needs to be a multi-book set. It's hard to cover a language in a single book. I also think that large print is needed for an actual book - similar to the dummies Series. The nice thing about an e-Book format is the illustrations can be interactive with copy-paste code samples. This format is easily updated via the net and can be read with a reader of some sort or computer. The subject matter is very extensive and needs to be handled in digestible amounts. As far as subject matter: Wide and varied as LiveCode can do so many things. I believe that have given you more that you can imagine. I also think that a master index searching section is needed. Even for sections that will be covered in the future. Just a thought, this could be written with LiveCode! This is definitely a humungous task. Sincerely, Clarence Martin Email: chipsm at themartinz.com Phone: 636 6965561 -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode On Behalf Of J. Landman Gay via use-livecode Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2019 3:30 PM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: J. Landman Gay Subject: Re: Ideas for my book. I think the first question should be: what assumptions will the book make? Will you assume familiarity with LC syntax and structure and plan to expand on various subcategories (server, pi, multi-media, etc?) Or is it aimed at beginners who have never programmed? Or maybe it's for experienced developers who know other languages but want to learn what's different in LC? That would narrow down the choices for the material you plan to present. Who's the audience? On 9/17/19 2:40 PM, Patrick Roza via use-livecode wrote: > First, let me say many of you gave some great input. So let me follow > with this. > > I see an interest in: > > Raspberry PI > LiveCode server > > Did not see anything on widgets or plugins? > > So here is are some questions for the group. > > 1. When you were learning LiveCode what was the hardest to learn and why? > > > 2. What do you think is the main advantage of LiveCode over other > programming languages? > > > 3. Do you think LiveCode is better than Python and why? > > I am just curious and want everybody to give me great input to develop > a great book. > > Thanks Patrick > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mark at livecode.com Wed Sep 18 02:57:12 2019 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2019 07:57:12 +0100 Subject: Sorting strangeness In-Reply-To: <22897bef-4692-8acd-9c6d-ff929f8b4123@researchware.com> References: <302867bf-30ca-4259-11a4-3b1b42f2d9c2@researchware.com> <59C43BEE-9DEF-413B-B058-FABF759D0F8E@iotecdigital.com> <09673583-a63f-ab56-e5b9-062e5644f821@researchware.com> <143c1eebf1029a5cf370f97d5216e58b@livecode.com> <22897bef-4692-8acd-9c6d-ff929f8b4123@researchware.com> Message-ID: On 2019-09-16 21:54, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > IF sort lines of ascending text was working correctly for lines > of mixed ASCII and Unicode, for someone sorting lines of text that can > be Native text, Unicode text (both RTL and LTR), or mixtures of both, > is it better to use SORT ... TEXT or SORT ... INTERNATIONAL? I don't > know enough about what the "international" (using the system locale > settings)? and Unicode may mean in relation to one another? You should use 'sort international' when you are displaying a sorted list to a user who is looking through it manually. The ordering provided by 'sort text' is purely by unicode codepoint, which has no direct relation to 'expected' order when read by a human and instead is determined by technical considerations (structuring a large 21-bit space, frequency of use and, most importantly, round-tripping to legacy encodings and standards). The core of the sort order provided by 'international' sorting is the Unicode Collation Algorithm - which provides (at its code) a locale-independent order for all the languages/scripts present in Unicode. e.g. Latin European languages are generally expected to come before Greek which is expected to come before Cyrillic. This core order is then tailored by locale to enable account to be taken of the individual expectations of the user of the sorted list. For example, different languages have different sort orders for what you might consider the 'same letters' due to using the same glyphs. For example, a Swedish user would expect 'z' to sort before '?'; whereas a German user would expect '?' to sort before 'z'. The engine uses ICU's implementation of Unicode collation, and supports a wide range of locales - the locale used is read on engine startup from the user's system settings. Hope this helps, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Sep 18 03:56:39 2019 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2019 10:56:39 +0300 Subject: Export Snapshot Message-ID: <6264a23d-f503-c75a-b665-eaabf8229366@gmail.com> I should like just to say how grateful that *export snapshot* on Macintosh does NOT dump the resultant image inside the LC app package any more (9.5.0). As an inveterate use of *export snapshot* this means a lot to me. Richmond. From tom at makeshyft.com Wed Sep 18 09:38:54 2019 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2019 09:38:54 -0400 Subject: Export Snapshot In-Reply-To: <6264a23d-f503-c75a-b665-eaabf8229366@gmail.com> References: <6264a23d-f503-c75a-b665-eaabf8229366@gmail.com> Message-ID: are you sure it wasn't just dumping it into the "defaultfolder" wherever that may be? and not specifically inside the app package? On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 3:57 AM Richmond via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I should like just to say how grateful that *export snapshot* > on Macintosh does NOT dump the resultant image inside the LC app package > any more (9.5.0). > As an inveterate use of *export snapshot* this means a lot to me. > > Richmond. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Tom Glod Founder & Developer MakeShyft R.D.A (www.makeshyft.com) Office:226-706-9339 Mobile:226-706-9793 From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Sep 18 09:43:16 2019 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2019 16:43:16 +0300 Subject: Export Snapshot In-Reply-To: References: <6264a23d-f503-c75a-b665-eaabf8229366@gmail.com> Message-ID: Possibly: but a default folder inside an app package seems a bit "potty." Richmond. On 18.09.19 16:38, Tom Glod via use-livecode wrote: > are you sure it wasn't just dumping it into the "defaultfolder" wherever > that may be? and not specifically inside the app package? > > > On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 3:57 AM Richmond via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> I should like just to say how grateful that *export snapshot* >> on Macintosh does NOT dump the resultant image inside the LC app package >> any more (9.5.0). >> As an inveterate use of *export snapshot* this means a lot to me. >> >> Richmond. >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > From klaus at major-k.de Wed Sep 18 09:44:08 2019 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2019 15:44:08 +0200 Subject: Export Snapshot In-Reply-To: References: <6264a23d-f503-c75a-b665-eaabf8229366@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1CED1B64-32DB-4C88-A4B9-FEEA7483F7E9@major-k.de> Hi all, > Am 18.09.2019 um 15:38 schrieb Tom Glod via use-livecode : > > are you sure it wasn't just dumping it into the "defaultfolder" wherever > that may be? and not specifically inside the app package? > > > On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 3:57 AM Richmond via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> I should like just to say how grateful that *export snapshot* >> on Macintosh does NOT dump the resultant image inside the LC app package >> any more (9.5.0). >> As an inveterate use of *export snapshot* this means a lot to me. >> >> Richmond. this has already changed a couple of versions before! Until then, when you start LC, "the defaultfolder" has been inside of the App package, but now this is the folder containing the APP packages, so probably the "Applications" folder on the Mac. IMO, blindly relying on the defaultfolder IS just sloppy development! :-D Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de klaus at major-k.de From paul at researchware.com Wed Sep 18 10:43:16 2019 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2019 10:43:16 -0400 Subject: Sorting strangeness In-Reply-To: References: <302867bf-30ca-4259-11a4-3b1b42f2d9c2@researchware.com> <59C43BEE-9DEF-413B-B058-FABF759D0F8E@iotecdigital.com> <09673583-a63f-ab56-e5b9-062e5644f821@researchware.com> <143c1eebf1029a5cf370f97d5216e58b@livecode.com> <22897bef-4692-8acd-9c6d-ff929f8b4123@researchware.com> Message-ID: <36a98287-869a-d12a-b900-b2e24f36839e@researchware.com> Again, thank you Mark - this helped immensely. In making a commercial text analytics application, we do a lot of sorting of user entered textual data. With the move from LC6.7.11 to LC9.0.5rc1 we discovered the sort text issue bug, but them we many dozens of sort statements through out our code, we wanted to be sure switching all text sorts to international was the right way to go. All are for user facing data. The alternative was to abstract them to a new function that used any of the work-arounds you identified for the sort text issue. Thanks again! On 9/18/2019 2:57 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: > On 2019-09-16 21:54, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: >> IF sort lines of ascending text was working correctly for lines >> of mixed ASCII and Unicode, for someone sorting lines of text that can >> be Native text, Unicode text (both RTL and LTR), or mixtures of both, >> is it better to use SORT ... TEXT or SORT ... INTERNATIONAL? I don't >> know enough about what the "international" (using the system locale >> settings)? and Unicode may mean in relation to one another? > > You should use 'sort international' when you are displaying a sorted list > to a user who is looking through it manually. > > The ordering provided by 'sort text' is purely by unicode codepoint, > which > has no direct relation to 'expected' order when read by a human and > instead > is determined by technical considerations (structuring a large 21-bit > space, > frequency of use and, most importantly, round-tripping to legacy > encodings and > standards). > > The core of the sort order provided by 'international' sorting is the > Unicode Collation Algorithm - which provides (at its code) a > locale-independent > order for all the languages/scripts present in Unicode. e.g. Latin > European > languages are generally expected to come before Greek which is > expected to > come before Cyrillic. > > This core order is then tailored by locale to enable account to be taken > of the individual expectations of the user of the sorted list. For > example, > different languages have different sort orders for what you might > consider > the 'same letters' due to using the same glyphs. For example, a > Swedish user > would expect 'z' to sort before '?'; whereas a German user would expect > '?' to sort before 'z'. > > The engine uses ICU's implementation of Unicode collation, and > supports a wide > range of locales - the locale used is read on engine startup from the > user's > system settings. > > Hope this helps, > > Mark. > From mark at livecode.com Wed Sep 18 11:03:37 2019 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2019 16:03:37 +0100 Subject: Sorting strangeness In-Reply-To: <36a98287-869a-d12a-b900-b2e24f36839e@researchware.com> References: <302867bf-30ca-4259-11a4-3b1b42f2d9c2@researchware.com> <59C43BEE-9DEF-413B-B058-FABF759D0F8E@iotecdigital.com> <09673583-a63f-ab56-e5b9-062e5644f821@researchware.com> <143c1eebf1029a5cf370f97d5216e58b@livecode.com> <22897bef-4692-8acd-9c6d-ff929f8b4123@researchware.com> <36a98287-869a-d12a-b900-b2e24f36839e@researchware.com> Message-ID: <3f4dd6d441f811ccf7e0488d863b282c@livecode.com> On 2019-09-18 15:43, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > Again, thank you Mark - this helped immensely. > > In making a commercial text analytics application, we do a lot of > sorting of user entered textual data. With the move from LC6.7.11 to > LC9.0.5rc1 we discovered the sort text issue bug, but them we many > dozens of sort statements through out our code, we wanted to be sure > switching all text sorts to international was the right way to go. All > are for user facing data. The alternative was to abstract them to a > new function that used any of the work-arounds you identified for the > sort text issue. If you are updating to use sort international (which sounds like the correct thing to do in this case) then I'd still recommend abstracting to a command handler which does the sorting (which will have no measurable impact on performance). e.g. command sortTextListForUserDisplay @xList, pDirection switch pDirection case "ascending" sort xList international ascending break case "descending" sort xList international descending break end switch end sortTextListForUserDisplay The reason here is that it means it gives you more control in the future. Whilst it didn't make it into 9.5, we have been working on more general 'collation' support which allows you to choose (with a high degree of flexibility) how sorting occurs. So if you abstract now, then it makes it easier to change things in the future should you want to. Warmest Regards, Mark. P.S. Indeed you might find that not all your 'sort text' instances are suitable for sort international when you go through - so abstracting those with a similarly richly named handler might also help code documentation as much as anything else. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From paul at researchware.com Wed Sep 18 11:09:06 2019 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2019 11:09:06 -0400 Subject: Sorting strangeness In-Reply-To: <3f4dd6d441f811ccf7e0488d863b282c@livecode.com> References: <302867bf-30ca-4259-11a4-3b1b42f2d9c2@researchware.com> <59C43BEE-9DEF-413B-B058-FABF759D0F8E@iotecdigital.com> <09673583-a63f-ab56-e5b9-062e5644f821@researchware.com> <143c1eebf1029a5cf370f97d5216e58b@livecode.com> <22897bef-4692-8acd-9c6d-ff929f8b4123@researchware.com> <36a98287-869a-d12a-b900-b2e24f36839e@researchware.com> <3f4dd6d441f811ccf7e0488d863b282c@livecode.com> Message-ID: Good to know. Thank you. On 9/18/2019 11:03 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: > On 2019-09-18 15:43, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: >> Again, thank you Mark - this helped immensely. >> >> In making a commercial text analytics application, we do a lot of >> sorting of user entered textual data. With the move from LC6.7.11 to >> LC9.0.5rc1 we discovered the sort text issue bug, but them we many >> dozens of sort statements through out our code, we wanted to be sure >> switching all text sorts to international was the right way to go. All >> are for user facing data. The alternative was to abstract them to a >> new function that used any of the work-arounds you identified for the >> sort text issue. > > If you are updating to use sort international (which sounds like the > correct > thing to do in this case) then I'd still recommend abstracting to a > command > handler which does the sorting (which will have no measurable impact on > performance). e.g. > > ? command sortTextListForUserDisplay @xList, pDirection > ??? switch pDirection > ??? case "ascending" > ????? sort xList international ascending > ????? break > ??? case "descending" > ????? sort xList international descending > ????? break > ??? end switch > ? end sortTextListForUserDisplay > > The reason here is that it means it gives you more control in the > future. Whilst > it didn't make it into 9.5, we have been working on more general > 'collation' > support which allows you to choose (with a high degree of flexibility) > how sorting > occurs. So if you abstract now, then it makes it easier to change > things in the > future should you want to. > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > > P.S. Indeed you might find that not all your 'sort text' instances are > suitable > for sort international when you go through - so abstracting those with > a similarly > richly named handler might also help code documentation as much as > anything else. > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Sep 18 12:54:09 2019 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2019 09:54:09 -0700 Subject: Export Snapshot In-Reply-To: <6264a23d-f503-c75a-b665-eaabf8229366@gmail.com> References: <6264a23d-f503-c75a-b665-eaabf8229366@gmail.com> Message-ID: Richmond wrote: > I should like just to say how grateful that *export snapshot* > on Macintosh does NOT dump the resultant image inside the LC > app package any more (9.5.0). > As an inveterate use of *export snapshot* this means a lot to me. Acquiring a habit of using full paths for all files will put you in complete control of path-related issues, making diagnostics both a breeze and seldom needed. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Sep 18 13:04:39 2019 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2019 20:04:39 +0300 Subject: Export Snapshot In-Reply-To: References: <6264a23d-f503-c75a-b665-eaabf8229366@gmail.com> Message-ID: <8c86bc74-03b9-94ee-a22b-8325e6e1b3d8@gmail.com> I never joined the Ramblers' Club. :) On 18.09.19 19:54, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > Richmond wrote: > > > I should like just to say how grateful that *export snapshot* > > on Macintosh does NOT dump the resultant image inside the LC > > app package any more (9.5.0). > > As an inveterate use of *export snapshot* this means a lot to me. > > Acquiring a habit of using full paths for all files will put you in > complete control of path-related issues, making diagnostics both a > breeze and seldom needed. > > -- > ?Richard Gaskin > ?Fourth World Systems > ?Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ?____________________________________________________________________ > ?Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Sep 18 13:30:04 2019 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2019 17:30:04 +0000 Subject: Export Snapshot In-Reply-To: References: <6264a23d-f503-c75a-b665-eaabf8229366@gmail.com> Message-ID: <9D7ADCBF-BBFB-4166-9128-2758AA988DE8@iotecdigital.com> +1 Never leave anything to chance (if you can help it). Bob S > On Sep 18, 2019, at 09:54 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > Richmond wrote: > > > I should like just to say how grateful that *export snapshot* > > on Macintosh does NOT dump the resultant image inside the LC > > app package any more (9.5.0). > > As an inveterate use of *export snapshot* this means a lot to me. > > Acquiring a habit of using full paths for all files will put you in complete control of path-related issues, making diagnostics both a breeze and seldom needed. > > -- > Richard Gaskin From livfoss at mac.com Wed Sep 18 14:38:45 2019 From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2019 20:38:45 +0200 Subject: Ideas for my book. In-Reply-To: <5f8e068d-ecd3-c08a-71f6-8968b9abe915@hyperactivesw.com> References: <5f8e068d-ecd3-c08a-71f6-8968b9abe915@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <1C70F12C-9DBD-4DD0-B2AD-71BCCB3C057A@mac.com> Wise words from Jacque as always! Yes, who is the book intended for? If people who have programmed already, then we have to ask, have they used scripting languages? Are they old enough to remember Hypercard, etc? If not, it?s all a bit of a tabula rasa, isn?t it? To answer on my own account (just my two battered Eurocents): I have always been attracted to the concept of ?natural-language-like? which to me of course means ?English-like?. I started with Hypercard, then SuperCard, then LiveCode in all its manifestations. In each case what attracted me was in part the ?stack? model, which at least is easy to understand, and in the particular case of LC I was (and am) exceedingly keen on the multi-platform ideas at the heart of LC - but perhaps even more, I was and am attracted by the simplicity of the ?look? of the language, which leads to both compactness and readability. When it came to actual coding, for several years I used to guess what the code would be and then find from the dictionary that my guess was slightly, but not drastically, wrong! That?s because natural languages are very rich and provide a huge variety of ways to say the same thing. I found these necessary corrections easy and very rapid to do, so I was content. Any book would have to decide where to start from, and then lead the reader to this type of insight, I think, so the reader would not be afraid to use the very large scope of the LC language. Such a book would also have to include an honest appraisal of what LC isn?t so good for, as perhaps others have hinted. I have produced viable software products with LC, but what has happened to me subsequently has been rather dispiriting, in two ways: 1. LC has decided to make itself more powerful by adding only semi-compatible features, particularly LCB and the whole Widget idea. It is a struggle to get to understand and actually use all this, and a book which would help with that, using lots of examples and step-by-step instructions, would be enormously helpful. 2. Everybody and her brother are being continually bogged down by deployment issues - code signing, notarization, installer logic, submission to stores, using payment services, working with frameworks which don?t really recognise LC, you name it - it?s a freaking nightmare. Just getting the program to do its thing is now perhaps less than 50 percent of the effort to provide an actual deliverable. Any book that helps with that (step-by-step etc) would be miraculously useful, but sadly it would need to be updated several times per year. Obviously the above is just scratching the surface, but I hope it helps a little. Graham > On 18 Sep 2019, at 00:29, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > > I think the first question should be: what assumptions will the book make? Will you assume familiarity with LC syntax and structure and plan to expand on various subcategories (server, pi, multi-media, etc?) Or is it aimed at beginners who have never programmed? Or maybe it's for experienced developers who know other languages but want to learn what's different in LC? > > That would narrow down the choices for the material you plan to present. Who's the audience? > > On 9/17/19 2:40 PM, Patrick Roza via use-livecode wrote: >> First, let me say many of you gave some great input. So let me follow with >> this. >> I see an interest in: >> Raspberry PI >> LiveCode server >> Did not see anything on widgets or plugins? >> So here is are some questions for the group. >> 1. When you were learning LiveCode what was the hardest to learn and why? >> 2. What do you think is the main advantage of LiveCode over other >> programming languages? >> 3. Do you think LiveCode is better than Python and why? >> I am just curious and want everybody to give me great input to develop a >> great book. >> Thanks Patrick >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at researchware.com Wed Sep 18 17:27:46 2019 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2019 17:27:46 -0400 Subject: Guess encoding for text file... In-Reply-To: <923642af-0315-7b02-eef5-025ef36f7dae@pair.com> References: <5dd4041c-2c6a-91e0-8ad5-1c9a87d546ce@researchware.com> <923642af-0315-7b02-eef5-025ef36f7dae@pair.com> Message-ID: I am sure my routine could be optimized some for performance. My consideration of doing this via OSX/Windows API using LCB FFI is only partially about performance. I think an advantage is that the OS vendors (with way more resources than me) are more likely to keep the algorithms reflecting up to date best practices (I know some of you will laugh at that).? Additionally, I might hope that, at some point, LiveCode corporate might consider taking it over if it was an collaborative open source effort LCB library than a LCS script. On 9/17/2019 6:45 PM, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode wrote: > > Paul: > > > I have a LiveCode Script (LCS) routine that attempts to > > follow industry common algorithms for guessing the encoding > > of a text file. > > It's performance can be slower than I would like. > > Howdy, > > Even though LC 9 is exceedingly slow on some operations -(cough, > cough, ahem, that's a topic in itself)- HOWEVER, I believe it's quite > capable of satisfactory performance in this particular area without > needing LCB, much less C. > > Pretty sure I can optimize your legacy routine to work just fine. It > simply wasn't designed for huge files, nor for LC 9's slow-mo loop > speed, but that could be easily remedied with a few tweaks! > > Best wishes, > > Curry Kenworthy > > Custom Software Development > "Better Methods, Better Results" > LiveCode Training and Consulting > http://livecodeconsulting.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From dsc at swcp.com Thu Sep 19 12:25:32 2019 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott Consulting) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2019 10:25:32 -0600 Subject: Guess encoding for text file... In-Reply-To: <5dd4041c-2c6a-91e0-8ad5-1c9a87d546ce@researchware.com> References: <5dd4041c-2c6a-91e0-8ad5-1c9a87d546ce@researchware.com> Message-ID: UTF-16 and UTF-32 are not needed in your list. Those are BE unless indicated otherwise by a leading BOM. That is, the BE and LE versions are sufficient. ASCII encoding is a subset of CP1252, MacRoman and UTF-8, so that can be classified as UTF-8 if there is no advantage to knowing that it is ASCII. (Printable ASCII is a subset of ISO-8859-1). A couple thoughts in creating a custom function. Your special codes in ASCII files of 1, 2, 3 and 4 can be considered in a custom function. You might have a good idea in just 128 bytes or maybe a few iterations of 32 bytes. You can consider an a priori ordering of likelihood, related to the question of which tests provide the most information in the least time. And if you can't tell the difference, then maybe it doesn't matter. I considered some methods of adjusting probabilities but the overhead means the test chunks should not be trivial. Also, the probability might be simplified to "maybe" and "nope". (However, if there might be errors in the text or discernment needs to rely on text probabilities, the numbers might be best.) Tests move probabilities from maybe to nope. One method might do a batch of unsigned 32-bit int decodes and do logic operations on each of those. That can only do partial elimination tests on UTF-8, but detailed tests can be done afterward. I am not sure about performance, it might be that byteToNum() would be much faster. I'm guessing that one can get some good probabilities from the first four bytes. So, I agree with Curry. He might not use anything I mentioned, but he can optimize your code for longer files, if you need full checking. > On Sep 17, 2019, at 2:05 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > > I started this post of the DEV-LIST. Mark Waddingham kindly responded and smartly suggested I should move it to the USE-LIST, so that is what I am doing. I have also pasted Lark's reply below my original post. > > ---------------------- ORIGINAL POST ---------------------------------------- > > I have a LiveCode Script (LCS) routine that attempts to follow industry common algorithms for guessing the encoding of a text file. > > It's performance can be slower than I would like. > > This has led me to wonder in a LiveCode Builder (LCB) library may be the route to go. Does anyone know the OSX and/or Windows APIs for guessing a text file's encoding? > > I have done a number of google searches, but I am not a C programmer (not in many decades) and wading through the huge doc sets at MSDN or Apple is daunting. > > I found reference to a windows API: > > BOOL IsTextUnicode( const VOID *lpv, int iSize, LPINT lpiResult ); > > Which suggests to me that such APIs may exists. Does anyone who is better at finding OS APIs know where to find such APIs? Can you point me to the right online documentation? > > I also found this: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/3825390/effective-way-to-find-any-files-encoding > > Of course, it would be wonderful if the mothership delivered this. At one point Frasier said he would back around LC7 something. > > https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14474 > > It seems an LCB library that uses OS APIs to return best guess for file encoding that match up with the textEncode/Decode functions would be a great addition to LC > > * "ASCII" > * "UTF-16" > * "UTF-16BE" > * "UTF-16LE" > * "UTF-32" > * "UTF-32BE" > * "UTF-32LE" > * "UTF-8" > * "CP1252" > * "ISO-8859-1" > * "MacRoman" > > and I suppose "Binary" as the default if none of the above can be detected > > ----------------- MARK'S REPLY ---------------------------------------- > On 2019-09-13 16:44, Paul Dupuis wrote: > > I have a LiveCode Script (LCS) routine that attempts to follow > > industry common algorithms for guessing the encoding of a text file. > > > > It's performance can be slower than I would like. > > If you share your code perhaps we can help speed it up... > > > This has led me to wonder in a LiveCode Builder (LCB) library may be > > the route to go. Does anyone know the OSX and/or Windows APIs for > > guessing a text file's encoding? > > > > I have done a number of google searches, but I am not a C programmer > > (not in many decades) and wading through the huge doc sets at MSDN or > > Apple is daunting. > > > > I found reference to a windows API: > > > > BOOL IsTextUnicode( > > const VOID *lpv, > > int iSize, > > LPINT lpiResult > > ); > > > > Which suggests to me that such APIs may exists. Does anyone who is > > better at finding OS APIs know where to find such APIs? Can you point > > me to the right online documentation? > > Libraries certainly exist: Mozilla has a 'universal charset detector library' for example, which appears to use various statistical heuristics to tell between all kinds of encodings. > > The 'IsTextUnicode' API seems to just tell you whether a sequence of bytes is likely to be UTF-16 or not UTF-16; so probably won't be all that helpful if that isn't all you are wanting to distinguish between. > > Do you have a list of encodings you are needing to guess between? That will generally influence how fast (and accurate) you can make such a function (its almost trivial to detect UTF-8 with a high degree of confidence, UTF-32 I think as well, UTF-16 is somewhat harder, and distinguishing between single-byte and legacy multi-byte charsets is, relatively speaking, very hard). > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > > P.S. This might be a better discussion to have on the use-list unless there is a reason not to, it might be of interest to others in that wider group. > > -- > Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ > LiveCode: Everyone can create apps > > _______________________________________________ > livecode-dev mailing list > livecode-dev at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/livecode-dev > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From dan at clearvisiontech.com Thu Sep 19 12:39:32 2019 From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2019 16:39:32 +0000 Subject: Print to PDF on Android? Message-ID: I can't seem to find a way to generate a PDF on Android. Is this really not possible? Thanks! -Dan From klaus at major-k.de Thu Sep 19 12:41:08 2019 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2019 18:41:08 +0200 Subject: Print to PDF on Android? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <293F2A8F-B008-4DD1-B993-9CCCBA8848F8@major-k.de> Hi Dan, > Am 19.09.2019 um 18:39 schrieb Dan Friedman via use-livecode : > > I can't seem to find a way to generate a PDF on Android. Is this really not possible? no, unfortunately still not supported by LC. > Thanks! > -Dan Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de klaus at major-k.de From dan at clearvisiontech.com Thu Sep 19 12:47:27 2019 From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2019 16:47:27 +0000 Subject: Print to PDF on Android? In-Reply-To: <293F2A8F-B008-4DD1-B993-9CCCBA8848F8@major-k.de> References: <293F2A8F-B008-4DD1-B993-9CCCBA8848F8@major-k.de> Message-ID: <70FBCE3C-D8DF-4A0A-A75E-1FA95F3745DD@clearvisiontech.com> Come on LiveCode!! We really can't generate one of the most popular file formats on the most popular mobile platform? This is a joke! This is a MAJOR issue for me and I am sure others. This pretty much kills my project. Damn. -Dan ?On 9/19/19, 9:41 AM, "use-livecode on behalf of Klaus major-k via use-livecode" wrote: Hi Dan, > Am 19.09.2019 um 18:39 schrieb Dan Friedman via use-livecode : > > I can't seem to find a way to generate a PDF on Android. Is this really not possible? no, unfortunately still not supported by LC. > Thanks! > -Dan Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de klaus at major-k.de _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From martyknappster at gmail.com Thu Sep 19 13:05:27 2019 From: martyknappster at gmail.com (Marty Knapp) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2019 10:05:27 -0700 Subject: No object selected Message-ID: <64A70F58-5EB2-44F5-9E60-F7C01FE0F342@gmail.com> Anybody had this happen - I have an older LC stack that works fine and in LC 9.5 I can edit the script of all the controls, but when I try to open the property inspector it will show the name of the object at the top of the inspector window but is says "no object selected" The only exception is for the stack itself, it will open for that. Marty From dsc at swcp.com Thu Sep 19 13:17:46 2019 From: dsc at swcp.com (dsc at swcp.com) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2019 11:17:46 -0600 Subject: Guess encoding for text file... In-Reply-To: References: <5dd4041c-2c6a-91e0-8ad5-1c9a87d546ce@researchware.com> Message-ID: <0941381E-6B23-4EAD-89F7-EADD4C9BD617@swcp.com> I thought of a quick way to do a first pass and it can almost fit in the margin. > On Sep 19, 2019, at 10:25 AM, Dar Scott Consulting via use-livecode wrote: > > UTF-16 and UTF-32 are not needed in your list. Those are BE unless indicated otherwise by a leading BOM. That is, the BE and LE versions are sufficient. > > ASCII encoding is a subset of CP1252, MacRoman and UTF-8, so that can be classified as UTF-8 if there is no advantage to knowing that it is ASCII. (Printable ASCII is a subset of ISO-8859-1). > > A couple thoughts in creating a custom function. Your special codes in ASCII files of 1, 2, 3 and 4 can be considered in a custom function. You might have a good idea in just 128 bytes or maybe a few iterations of 32 bytes. You can consider an a priori ordering of likelihood, related to the question of which tests provide the most information in the least time. And if you can't tell the difference, then maybe it doesn't matter. > > I considered some methods of adjusting probabilities but the overhead means the test chunks should not be trivial. Also, the probability might be simplified to "maybe" and "nope". (However, if there might be errors in the text or discernment needs to rely on text probabilities, the numbers might be best.) Tests move probabilities from maybe to nope. > > One method might do a batch of unsigned 32-bit int decodes and do logic operations on each of those. That can only do partial elimination tests on UTF-8, but detailed tests can be done afterward. I am not sure about performance, it might be that byteToNum() would be much faster. > > I'm guessing that one can get some good probabilities from the first four bytes. > > So, I agree with Curry. He might not use anything I mentioned, but he can optimize your code for longer files, if you need full checking. > >> On Sep 17, 2019, at 2:05 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: >> >> I started this post of the DEV-LIST. Mark Waddingham kindly responded and smartly suggested I should move it to the USE-LIST, so that is what I am doing. I have also pasted Lark's reply below my original post. >> >> ---------------------- ORIGINAL POST ---------------------------------------- >> >> I have a LiveCode Script (LCS) routine that attempts to follow industry common algorithms for guessing the encoding of a text file. >> >> It's performance can be slower than I would like. >> >> This has led me to wonder in a LiveCode Builder (LCB) library may be the route to go. Does anyone know the OSX and/or Windows APIs for guessing a text file's encoding? >> >> I have done a number of google searches, but I am not a C programmer (not in many decades) and wading through the huge doc sets at MSDN or Apple is daunting. >> >> I found reference to a windows API: >> >> BOOL IsTextUnicode( const VOID *lpv, int iSize, LPINT lpiResult ); >> >> Which suggests to me that such APIs may exists. Does anyone who is better at finding OS APIs know where to find such APIs? Can you point me to the right online documentation? >> >> I also found this: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/3825390/effective-way-to-find-any-files-encoding >> >> Of course, it would be wonderful if the mothership delivered this. At one point Frasier said he would back around LC7 something. >> >> https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14474 >> >> It seems an LCB library that uses OS APIs to return best guess for file encoding that match up with the textEncode/Decode functions would be a great addition to LC >> >> * "ASCII" >> * "UTF-16" >> * "UTF-16BE" >> * "UTF-16LE" >> * "UTF-32" >> * "UTF-32BE" >> * "UTF-32LE" >> * "UTF-8" >> * "CP1252" >> * "ISO-8859-1" >> * "MacRoman" >> >> and I suppose "Binary" as the default if none of the above can be detected >> >> ----------------- MARK'S REPLY ---------------------------------------- >> On 2019-09-13 16:44, Paul Dupuis wrote: >>> I have a LiveCode Script (LCS) routine that attempts to follow >>> industry common algorithms for guessing the encoding of a text file. >>> >>> It's performance can be slower than I would like. >> >> If you share your code perhaps we can help speed it up... >> >>> This has led me to wonder in a LiveCode Builder (LCB) library may be >>> the route to go. Does anyone know the OSX and/or Windows APIs for >>> guessing a text file's encoding? >>> >>> I have done a number of google searches, but I am not a C programmer >>> (not in many decades) and wading through the huge doc sets at MSDN or >>> Apple is daunting. >>> >>> I found reference to a windows API: >>> >>> BOOL IsTextUnicode( >>> const VOID *lpv, >>> int iSize, >>> LPINT lpiResult >>> ); >>> >>> Which suggests to me that such APIs may exists. Does anyone who is >>> better at finding OS APIs know where to find such APIs? Can you point >>> me to the right online documentation? >> >> Libraries certainly exist: Mozilla has a 'universal charset detector library' for example, which appears to use various statistical heuristics to tell between all kinds of encodings. >> >> The 'IsTextUnicode' API seems to just tell you whether a sequence of bytes is likely to be UTF-16 or not UTF-16; so probably won't be all that helpful if that isn't all you are wanting to distinguish between. >> >> Do you have a list of encodings you are needing to guess between? That will generally influence how fast (and accurate) you can make such a function (its almost trivial to detect UTF-8 with a high degree of confidence, UTF-32 I think as well, UTF-16 is somewhat harder, and distinguishing between single-byte and legacy multi-byte charsets is, relatively speaking, very hard). >> >> Warmest Regards, >> >> Mark. >> >> P.S. This might be a better discussion to have on the use-list unless there is a reason not to, it might be of interest to others in that wider group. >> >> -- >> Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ >> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps >> >> _______________________________________________ >> livecode-dev mailing list >> livecode-dev at lists.runrev.com >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/livecode-dev >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jjs at krutt.org Thu Sep 19 13:43:17 2019 From: jjs at krutt.org (JJS) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2019 19:43:17 +0200 Subject: Print to PDF on Android? In-Reply-To: <70FBCE3C-D8DF-4A0A-A75E-1FA95F3745DD@clearvisiontech.com> References: <293F2A8F-B008-4DD1-B993-9CCCBA8848F8@major-k.de> <70FBCE3C-D8DF-4A0A-A75E-1FA95F3745DD@clearvisiontech.com> Message-ID: You can't even print to paper, and i need that. It's 2019 and Android 9/10 and it was already possible(not lc) in Android 4.4.2 if not earlier. Only direct solution now is recreate the app in Android Studio using Java or Kotlin. For paper is a bug report available on the quality site. Op 19-9-2019 om 18:47 schreef Dan Friedman via use-livecode: > Come on LiveCode!! We really can't generate one of the most popular file formats on the most popular mobile platform? This is a joke! This is a MAJOR issue for me and I am sure others. This pretty much kills my project. Damn. > > -Dan > > > ?On 9/19/19, 9:41 AM, "use-livecode on behalf of Klaus major-k via use-livecode" wrote: > > Hi Dan, > > > Am 19.09.2019 um 18:39 schrieb Dan Friedman via use-livecode : > > > > I can't seem to find a way to generate a PDF on Android. Is this really not possible? > > no, unfortunately still not supported by LC. > > > Thanks! > > -Dan > > Best > > Klaus > > -- > Klaus Major > https://www.major-k.de > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From klaus at major-k.de Thu Sep 19 13:54:06 2019 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2019 19:54:06 +0200 Subject: Print to PDF on Android? In-Reply-To: References: <293F2A8F-B008-4DD1-B993-9CCCBA8848F8@major-k.de> <70FBCE3C-D8DF-4A0A-A75E-1FA95F3745DD@clearvisiontech.com> Message-ID: Hi all, > Am 19.09.2019 um 19:43 schrieb JJS via use-livecode : > > You can't even print to paper, and i need that. > It's 2019 and Android 9/10 and it was already possible(not lc) in Android 4.4.2 if not earlier. > Only direct solution now is recreate the app in Android Studio using Java or Kotlin. > For paper is a bug report available on the quality site. same for print to PDF, it is from 2016 and its current status = HIBERNATED? Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de klaus at major-k.de From curry at pair.com Thu Sep 19 14:19:04 2019 From: curry at pair.com (Curry Kenworthy) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2019 14:19:04 -0400 Subject: Guess encoding for text file... In-Reply-To: <0941381E-6B23-4EAD-89F7-EADD4C9BD617@swcp.com> References: <0941381E-6B23-4EAD-89F7-EADD4C9BD617@swcp.com> Message-ID: 'Cuz I don't even plan to use a loop if it ain't strictly called for.... What's that smell? Oh yeah, burning bytes. :) Best wishes, Curry Kenworthy Custom Software Development "Better Methods, Better Results" LiveCode Training and Consulting http://livecodeconsulting.com/ From dsc at swcp.com Thu Sep 19 14:53:43 2019 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott Consulting) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2019 12:53:43 -0600 Subject: Guess encoding for text file... In-Reply-To: References: <0941381E-6B23-4EAD-89F7-EADD4C9BD617@swcp.com> Message-ID: <40C7442C-33C9-41AB-A9D5-321C14C14FFC@swcp.com> Yeah. I love the smell of burning bytes. > On Sep 19, 2019, at 12:19 PM, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode wrote: > > > 'Cuz I don't even plan to use a loop if it ain't strictly called for.... > > What's that smell? Oh yeah, burning bytes. :) > > Best wishes, > > Curry Kenworthy > > Custom Software Development > "Better Methods, Better Results" > LiveCode Training and Consulting > http://livecodeconsulting.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From klaus at major-k.de Thu Sep 19 14:56:09 2019 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2019 20:56:09 +0200 Subject: Guess encoding for text file... In-Reply-To: <40C7442C-33C9-41AB-A9D5-321C14C14FFC@swcp.com> References: <0941381E-6B23-4EAD-89F7-EADD4C9BD617@swcp.com> <40C7442C-33C9-41AB-A9D5-321C14C14FFC@swcp.com> Message-ID: > Am 19.09.2019 um 20:53 schrieb Dar Scott Consulting via use-livecode : > > Yeah. I love the smell of burning bytes... ... in the morning. :-) > ... >> 'Cuz I don't even plan to use a loop if it ain't strictly called for.... >> What's that smell? Oh yeah, burning bytes. :) -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de klaus at major-k.de From jerry at jhjensen.com Thu Sep 19 15:23:41 2019 From: jerry at jhjensen.com (Jerry Jensen) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2019 12:23:41 -0700 Subject: Guess encoding for text file... In-Reply-To: <40C7442C-33C9-41AB-A9D5-321C14C14FFC@swcp.com> References: <0941381E-6B23-4EAD-89F7-EADD4C9BD617@swcp.com> <40C7442C-33C9-41AB-A9D5-321C14C14FFC@swcp.com> Message-ID: <12DB7983-B6DB-4F42-8AC7-79DF0A1226C4@jhjensen.com> On Sep 19, 2019, at 11:53 AM, Dar Scott Consulting via use-livecode wrote: > > Yeah. I love the smell of burning bytes. 4 bits is called a nybble, and 2 bits is called a snyf. From dsc at swcp.com Thu Sep 19 15:35:38 2019 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott Consulting) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2019 13:35:38 -0600 Subject: Guess encoding for text file... In-Reply-To: <12DB7983-B6DB-4F42-8AC7-79DF0A1226C4@jhjensen.com> References: <0941381E-6B23-4EAD-89F7-EADD4C9BD617@swcp.com> <40C7442C-33C9-41AB-A9D5-321C14C14FFC@swcp.com> <12DB7983-B6DB-4F42-8AC7-79DF0A1226C4@jhjensen.com> Message-ID: <1833A7F0-FEC2-47AD-B08C-BFE9DCD17B5C@swcp.com> And I thought 2 bits was a quarter. > On Sep 19, 2019, at 1:23 PM, Jerry Jensen via use-livecode wrote: > > On Sep 19, 2019, at 11:53 AM, Dar Scott Consulting via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Yeah. I love the smell of burning bytes. > > 4 bits is called a nybble, and > 2 bits is called a snyf. > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jjs at krutt.org Thu Sep 19 15:53:59 2019 From: jjs at krutt.org (JJS) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2019 21:53:59 +0200 Subject: Guess encoding for text file... In-Reply-To: <12DB7983-B6DB-4F42-8AC7-79DF0A1226C4@jhjensen.com> References: <0941381E-6B23-4EAD-89F7-EADD4C9BD617@swcp.com> <40C7442C-33C9-41AB-A9D5-321C14C14FFC@swcp.com> <12DB7983-B6DB-4F42-8AC7-79DF0A1226C4@jhjensen.com> Message-ID: <660edd7a-e60d-cf76-064c-00f952b115ba@krutt.org> ah that does remind me of the Amiga if copying floppys did not go well, we used nibble-copy. btw your surname differs 2 bytes from mine using ascii, with the same first name (off topic this is) :) Op 19-9-2019 om 21:23 schreef Jerry Jensen via use-livecode: > On Sep 19, 2019, at 11:53 AM, Dar Scott Consulting via use-livecode wrote: >> Yeah. I love the smell of burning bytes. > 4 bits is called a nybble, and > 2 bits is called a snyf. > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From hh at hyperhh.de Thu Sep 19 16:14:14 2019 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2019 22:14:14 +0200 Subject: BasicGeoLib_v100 Message-ID: <9994D997-6CBF-4900-A057-A1B68E186101@hyperhh.de> GeoLib_v105 is now a library (as substack of the sample stack). The new version has several additions. These are now the supported functions (rightClick the hh-Logo in the sample stack to see the library stack script): * getHaversineDistance(point1,point2) * getDistance(point1,point2) * intermediatePoint(point1,point2,fraction) * greatCircleBearing(point1,point2) * rhumbLineBearingBearing(point1,point2) * getSpeed(point1,startSecs,point2,endSecs) * isPointWithinRadius(centerPoint,radius,listOfPoints) * orderByDistance(toPoint,fromList) * getDistanceFromLine(point1,point2,fromList) * getBoundsAndLoc(linesOfPoints) * getPathLength(linesOfPoints) * sexagesimalToDecimal(linesOfPoints) * decimalToSexagesimal(linesOfPoints) * getDestinationPointH(point1,distance,bearing) * getDestinationPointV(point1,distance,bearing) BerndN added a function to get one of 16 compass directions from a degree value. Credits: See the geoLib source, all is MIT-licensed. License: MIT ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIT_License ) From capellan2000 at gmail.com Thu Sep 19 16:48:17 2019 From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2019 16:48:17 -0400 Subject: Ideas for my book In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi All, Just for reference, Professor Manuel Agust? i Melchor from Universidad Polit?cnica de Valencia published a book on MetaCard and Revolution: http://www.disca.upv.es/magustim/mmmultiplataforma/book1.html By the way, Google Translate works fine on these pages. Al From ahsoftware at sonic.net Thu Sep 19 17:01:36 2019 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2019 14:01:36 -0700 Subject: No object selected In-Reply-To: <64A70F58-5EB2-44F5-9E60-F7C01FE0F342@gmail.com> References: <64A70F58-5EB2-44F5-9E60-F7C01FE0F342@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 9/19/19 10:05 AM, Marty Knapp via use-livecode wrote: > Anybody had this happen - I have an older LC stack that works fine and in LC 9.5 I can edit the script of all the controls, but when I try to open the property inspector it will show the name of the object at the top of the inspector window but is says "no object selected" The only exception is for the stack itself, it will open for that. Yep. Have seen that one. Pre-9.5 works ok. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From martyknappster at gmail.com Thu Sep 19 17:46:26 2019 From: martyknappster at gmail.com (Marty Knapp) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2019 14:46:26 -0700 Subject: No object selected In-Reply-To: References: <64A70F58-5EB2-44F5-9E60-F7C01FE0F342@gmail.com> Message-ID: <9EA804BB-21FE-4759-BC18-8DCE713D3106@gmail.com> Thanks Mark. Tried 9.0.4 but the issue persists. Saved in a legacy format and opened in LC 6.5 and I can access the property inspector there? Then open again in 9.0.4 but still no joy. Marty > On Sep 19, 2019, at 2:01 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > > On 9/19/19 10:05 AM, Marty Knapp via use-livecode wrote: >> Anybody had this happen - I have an older LC stack that works fine and in LC 9.5 I can edit the script of all the controls, but when I try to open the property inspector it will show the name of the object at the top of the inspector window but is says "no object selected" The only exception is for the stack itself, it will open for that. > > Yep. Have seen that one. Pre-9.5 works ok. > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bogdanoff at me.com Thu Sep 19 18:24:16 2019 From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2019 15:24:16 -0700 Subject: inter-app communication to LiveCode? Message-ID: Hi, A user asked about ?linking? to my desktop LC app from a PDF. Is there anything in the PDF spec that does this? His idea was that it the link would do more than just opening up my app, but contain data that indicates a specified ?page? in my app. My application is Mac/Windows. Peter Bogdanoff ArtsInteractiveinc.com From scott at elementarysoftware.com Thu Sep 19 23:46:16 2019 From: scott at elementarysoftware.com (scott at elementarysoftware.com) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2019 20:46:16 -0700 Subject: Print to PDF on Android? In-Reply-To: <70FBCE3C-D8DF-4A0A-A75E-1FA95F3745DD@clearvisiontech.com> References: <293F2A8F-B008-4DD1-B993-9CCCBA8848F8@major-k.de> <70FBCE3C-D8DF-4A0A-A75E-1FA95F3745DD@clearvisiontech.com> Message-ID: <5BBDEF69-75E0-48D9-B7FC-BE34C1182637@elementarysoftware.com> Hello Dan, Hello Dan, For Android PDF creation I use Jan Schenkel?s Quartum PDF Library. It isn?t an ideal (or even possible) solution in many cases because it doesn?t support unicode but in my case that wasn?t a deal breaker. -- Scott Morrow Elementary Software (Now with 20% less chalk dust!) web https://elementarysoftware.com/ email scott at elementarysoftware.com booth 1-800-615-0867 ------------------------------------------------------ > On Sep 19, 2019, at 9:47 AM, Dan Friedman via use-livecode wrote: > > Come on LiveCode!! We really can't generate one of the most popular file formats on the most popular mobile platform? This is a joke! This is a MAJOR issue for me and I am sure others. This pretty much kills my project. Damn. > > -Dan > > > ?On 9/19/19, 9:41 AM, "use-livecode on behalf of Klaus major-k via use-livecode" wrote: > > Hi Dan, > >> Am 19.09.2019 um 18:39 schrieb Dan Friedman via use-livecode : >> >> I can't seem to find a way to generate a PDF on Android. Is this really not possible? > > no, unfortunately still not supported by LC. > >> Thanks! >> -Dan > > Best > > Klaus > > -- > Klaus Major > https://www.major-k.de > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From scott at elementarysoftware.com Thu Sep 19 23:53:21 2019 From: scott at elementarysoftware.com (scott at elementarysoftware.com) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2019 20:53:21 -0700 Subject: inter-app communication to LiveCode? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49FB1F07-A03A-4E9D-8F69-9F9CB7E6AB7F@elementarysoftware.com> Peter, I?m not sure about ?linking? but I have an app that creates PDFs and then appears to ?edit? them later. The hack I use is to include all the information (In this case it is a relatively small amount) needed to recreate the PDF as meta-data when I originally create the PDF. If you were creating the PDF it would be simple to include ?page? information as meta-data. -- Scott Morrow Elementary Software (Now with 20% less chalk dust!) web https://elementarysoftware.com/ email scott at elementarysoftware.com booth 1-800-615-0867 ------------------------------------------------------ > On Sep 19, 2019, at 3:24 PM, Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi, > > A user asked about ?linking? to my desktop LC app from a PDF. Is there anything in the PDF spec that does this? His idea was that it the link would do more than just opening up my app, but contain data that indicates a specified ?page? in my app. > > My application is Mac/Windows. > > Peter Bogdanoff > ArtsInteractiveinc.com > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From lists at mangomultimedia.com Fri Sep 20 00:12:23 2019 From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2019 23:12:23 -0500 Subject: inter-app communication to LiveCode? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Sep 19, 2019 at 5:25 PM Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > A user asked about ?linking? to my desktop LC app from a PDF. Is there > anything in the PDF spec that does this? His idea was that it the link > would do more than just opening up my app, but contain data that indicates > a specified ?page? in my app. > > My application is Mac/Windows. > You can define a url protocol (e.g. myapp://) which can be configured on Mac or Windows to launch your application. This works with links in a browser so that a web page can contain a link that launchers your application. I don't know if it will work from a PDF file, though. It may depend on the PDF viewer or other variables. It is probably worth trying as you can embed the "page" number in the url. On Windows you need to update the Windows Registry. Here is a link to some code in a library that ships with Levure that will set the appropriate values in the registry: https://github.com/trevordevore/levure/blob/develop/framework/helpers/file_system/file_system.livecodescript#L193 You can run this code when your application first launches. On Mac/iOS you need to add some keys to your Info.plist file. The README for the library has an example: https://github.com/trevordevore/levure/tree/develop/framework/helpers/file_system#url-protocols Once you've set the registry/Info.plist files up (you will need to launch the app at least once on macOS so it picks up the settings in the plist file) your app will be launched when the URL protocol is triggered. On macOS you will handle an appleEvent. You can look at the code in the library for hints: https://github.com/trevordevore/levure/blob/develop/framework/helpers/file_system/file_system.livecodescript#L83 For Windows you can read the `commandArguments` when the app launches or, if the application is already running, handle the `relaunch` command and use the parameters passed to it. Hopefully that is enough to get you started. -- Trevor DeVore ScreenSteps www.screensteps.com From bogdanoff at me.com Fri Sep 20 02:00:43 2019 From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff) Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2019 23:00:43 -0700 Subject: inter-app communication to LiveCode? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <10E4517F-B46C-41C0-A982-F4DD596C376D@me.com> Thank you Scott and Trevor! Trevor, I think what you wrote certainly puts me in the right direction. Peter > On Sep 19, 2019, at 9:12 PM, Trevor DeVore via use-livecode wrote: > > On Thu, Sep 19, 2019 at 5:25 PM Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> A user asked about ?linking? to my desktop LC app from a PDF. Is there >> anything in the PDF spec that does this? His idea was that it the link >> would do more than just opening up my app, but contain data that indicates >> a specified ?page? in my app. >> >> My application is Mac/Windows. >> > > You can define a url protocol (e.g. myapp://) which can be configured on > Mac or Windows to launch your application. This works with links in a > browser so that a web page can contain a link that launchers your > application. I don't know if it will work from a PDF file, though. It may > depend on the PDF viewer or other variables. It is probably worth trying as > you can embed the "page" number in the url. > > On Windows you need to update the Windows Registry. Here is a link to some > code in a library that ships with Levure that will set the appropriate > values in the registry: > > https://github.com/trevordevore/levure/blob/develop/framework/helpers/file_system/file_system.livecodescript#L193 > > You can run this code when your application first launches. > > On Mac/iOS you need to add some keys to your Info.plist file. The README > for the library has an example: > > https://github.com/trevordevore/levure/tree/develop/framework/helpers/file_system#url-protocols > > Once you've set the registry/Info.plist files up (you will need to launch > the app at least once on macOS so it picks up the settings in the plist > file) your app will be launched when the URL protocol is triggered. On > macOS you will handle an appleEvent. You can look at the code in the > library for hints: > > https://github.com/trevordevore/levure/blob/develop/framework/helpers/file_system/file_system.livecodescript#L83 > > For Windows you can read the `commandArguments` when the app launches or, > if the application is already running, handle the `relaunch` command and > use the parameters passed to it. > > Hopefully that is enough to get you started. > > -- > Trevor DeVore > ScreenSteps > www.screensteps.com > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From sundown at pacifier.com Fri Sep 20 04:34:34 2019 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 01:34:34 -0700 Subject: Access Resource Files Message-ID: <78FBF0E0-2E8D-4397-B4FE-E08EACFB3D19@pacifier.com> Does anyone know of a way to access resource files in the StandAlone .app bundle? Let?s say I want to include a jpg file in my .app bundle & then copy that file to the desktop at various times. From what I understand if you write a external to copy source file to destination file it will work unless they are in the .app bundle. I do not want to include a file saved in a different url. This will be a file located in the .app bundle and then saved to the desktop or a user chosen location that is not in a bundle. My guess is it cannot be done but I would love it if someone proved me wrong. JB From klaus at major-k.de Fri Sep 20 04:46:12 2019 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 10:46:12 +0200 Subject: Access Resource Files In-Reply-To: <78FBF0E0-2E8D-4397-B4FE-E08EACFB3D19@pacifier.com> References: <78FBF0E0-2E8D-4397-B4FE-E08EACFB3D19@pacifier.com> Message-ID: Hi JB, > Am 20.09.2019 um 10:34 schrieb JB via use-livecode : > > Does anyone know of a way to access resource files > in the StandAlone .app bundle? > > Let?s say I want to include a jpg file in my .app bundle > & then copy that file to the desktop at various times. > > From what I understand if you write a external to copy > source file to destination file it will work unless they > are in the .app bundle. > > I do not want to include a file saved in a different url. > This will be a file located in the .app bundle and then > saved to the desktop or a user chosen location that > is not in a bundle. > > My guess is it cannot be done but I would love it if > someone proved me wrong. > > JB everything you add to your standalone via: Standalone Application Settings -> Copy files can be found in the standalone in: specialfolderpath("resources") & "/your wonderful pic.jpg" If that is what you mean. That specialfolderpath() does also work in the IDE! In that case it returns the path to the folder containing the current stack. Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de klaus at major-k.de From sundown at pacifier.com Fri Sep 20 05:11:54 2019 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 02:11:54 -0700 Subject: Access Resource Files In-Reply-To: References: <78FBF0E0-2E8D-4397-B4FE-E08EACFB3D19@pacifier.com> Message-ID: <5D4E8623-CF14-48AF-A34A-D8D797FE5706@pacifier.com> Hi Klaus, Thanks for the info! A file path alone does not work for me. Here is what I have tried. In the Stack Script; global dirName on openStack put the defaultFolder into dirName end openStack ?From a button on a card; global dirName on mouseUp --/Users/JB/Desktop/Buss X-82/Buss X-82.app/Contents/Resources/myPic.jpg put dirName & "/Buss X-82.app/Contents/Resources/myPic.jpg/" into fPath put fPath end mouseUp That is how I can get a file path but using this path will not work if the path directs to a bundle but it will work if the file is not in a bundle. That being said how do I go about copying this file with specialfolderpath() ? Do I need to go to the standalone settings and add the file using copy files section and then from within my app I can copy that file but if I add it my self after the .app is made I will not be able to copy it? Are you saying this will return the path to my resource in my app and let me copy it to the desktop? Do you have some more examples of copying the file with this procedure? JB > On Sep 20, 2019, at 1:46 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi JB, > >> Am 20.09.2019 um 10:34 schrieb JB via use-livecode : >> >> Does anyone know of a way to access resource files >> in the StandAlone .app bundle? >> >> Let?s say I want to include a jpg file in my .app bundle >> & then copy that file to the desktop at various times. >> >> From what I understand if you write a external to copy >> source file to destination file it will work unless they >> are in the .app bundle. >> >> I do not want to include a file saved in a different url. >> This will be a file located in the .app bundle and then >> saved to the desktop or a user chosen location that >> is not in a bundle. >> >> My guess is it cannot be done but I would love it if >> someone proved me wrong. >> >> JB > > everything you add to your standalone via: > Standalone Application Settings -> Copy files > can be found in the standalone in: > specialfolderpath("resources") & "/your wonderful pic.jpg" > > If that is what you mean. > > That specialfolderpath() does also work in the IDE! > In that case it returns the path to the folder containing the current stack. > > > Best > > Klaus > > -- > Klaus Major > https://www.major-k.de > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From klaus at major-k.de Fri Sep 20 05:30:21 2019 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 11:30:21 +0200 Subject: Access Resource Files In-Reply-To: <5D4E8623-CF14-48AF-A34A-D8D797FE5706@pacifier.com> References: <78FBF0E0-2E8D-4397-B4FE-E08EACFB3D19@pacifier.com> <5D4E8623-CF14-48AF-A34A-D8D797FE5706@pacifier.com> Message-ID: <6DA5299A-3CC4-4384-949B-4597D812D754@major-k.de> Hi JB, > Am 20.09.2019 um 11:11 schrieb JB via use-livecode : > > Hi Klaus, > > Thanks for the info! A file path alone does not work for me. > Here is what I have tried. > In the Stack Script; > global dirName > on openStack > put the defaultFolder into dirName > end openStack > ?From a button on a card; > > global dirName > > on mouseUp > --/Users/JB/Desktop/Buss X-82/Buss X-82.app/Contents/Resources/myPic.jpg > put dirName & "/Buss X-82.app/Contents/Resources/myPic.jpg/" into fPath > put fPath > end mouseUp > > That is how I can get a file path but using this path will not work if the path > directs to a bundle but it will work if the file is not in a bundle. that's why LC gave us the specialfolderpath() codes! No need to mess around with DEFAULTFOLDER etc. on different platforms anymore. Especially if Apple likes to change things out of a sudden again! :-D > That being said how do I go about copying this file with specialfolderpath() ? See below... > Do I need to go to the standalone settings and add the file using copy files > section and then from within my app I can copy that file Yes, that's the way you should work. > but if I add it my self after the .app is made I will not be able to copy it? specialfolderpath("resources") will also work IF you copy your files to the correct folder inside of the APP package. > Are you saying this will return the path to my resource in my app and let > me copy it to the desktop? Do you have some more examples of copying > the file with this procedure? ... ## Copy your pic inside of the APP package to the Desktop folder: put specialfolderpath("desktop") & "/mypic.jpg" into tTargetFile put specialfolderpath("resources") & "/mypic.jpg" into tSourceFile if there is not a file tTargetfile then put url("binfile:" & tSourceFile) into url("binfile:" & tTargetFile) end if ... > JB Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de klaus at major-k.de From sundown at pacifier.com Fri Sep 20 05:45:28 2019 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 02:45:28 -0700 Subject: Access Resource Files In-Reply-To: <6DA5299A-3CC4-4384-949B-4597D812D754@major-k.de> References: <78FBF0E0-2E8D-4397-B4FE-E08EACFB3D19@pacifier.com> <5D4E8623-CF14-48AF-A34A-D8D797FE5706@pacifier.com> <6DA5299A-3CC4-4384-949B-4597D812D754@major-k.de> Message-ID: <0666F72E-1185-4B47-86DF-01B2CDBE9CED@pacifier.com> Hi Klaus, That worked but the file that appeared on the desktop had no icon like was there before and the size is zero K. JB > On Sep 20, 2019, at 2:30 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi JB, > >> Am 20.09.2019 um 11:11 schrieb JB via use-livecode : >> >> Hi Klaus, >> >> Thanks for the info! A file path alone does not work for me. >> Here is what I have tried. >> In the Stack Script; >> global dirName >> on openStack >> put the defaultFolder into dirName >> end openStack >> ?From a button on a card; >> >> global dirName >> >> on mouseUp >> --/Users/JB/Desktop/Buss X-82/Buss X-82.app/Contents/Resources/myPic.jpg >> put dirName & "/Buss X-82.app/Contents/Resources/myPic.jpg/" into fPath >> put fPath >> end mouseUp >> >> That is how I can get a file path but using this path will not work if the path >> directs to a bundle but it will work if the file is not in a bundle. > > that's why LC gave us the specialfolderpath() codes! > No need to mess around with DEFAULTFOLDER etc. on different platforms anymore. > Especially if Apple likes to change things out of a sudden again! :-D > >> That being said how do I go about copying this file with specialfolderpath() ? > > See below... > >> Do I need to go to the standalone settings and add the file using copy files >> section and then from within my app I can copy that file > > Yes, that's the way you should work. > >> but if I add it my self after the .app is made I will not be able to copy it? > > specialfolderpath("resources") will also work IF you copy your files > to the correct folder inside of the APP package. > >> Are you saying this will return the path to my resource in my app and let >> me copy it to the desktop? Do you have some more examples of copying >> the file with this procedure? > ... > ## Copy your pic inside of the APP package to the Desktop folder: > put specialfolderpath("desktop") & "/mypic.jpg" into tTargetFile > put specialfolderpath("resources") & "/mypic.jpg" into tSourceFile > if there is not a file tTargetfile then > put url("binfile:" & tSourceFile) into url("binfile:" & tTargetFile) > end if > ... > >> JB > > Best > > Klaus > > -- > Klaus Major > https://www.major-k.de > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From klaus at major-k.de Fri Sep 20 05:52:38 2019 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 11:52:38 +0200 Subject: Access Resource Files In-Reply-To: <0666F72E-1185-4B47-86DF-01B2CDBE9CED@pacifier.com> References: <78FBF0E0-2E8D-4397-B4FE-E08EACFB3D19@pacifier.com> <5D4E8623-CF14-48AF-A34A-D8D797FE5706@pacifier.com> <6DA5299A-3CC4-4384-949B-4597D812D754@major-k.de> <0666F72E-1185-4B47-86DF-01B2CDBE9CED@pacifier.com> Message-ID: Hi JB, > Am 20.09.2019 um 11:45 schrieb JB via use-livecode : > > Hi Klaus, > > That worked but the file that appeared on the desktop had > no icon like was there before and the size is zero K. hm, I have been working this way since the old Metacard days, so no idea what's wrong. Did you use my exact syntax? If not, please post your code. Did you create a standalone and added the pic via "Copy files"? > JB > > >> On Sep 20, 2019, at 2:30 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Hi JB, >> >>> Am 20.09.2019 um 11:11 schrieb JB via use-livecode : >>> >>> Hi Klaus, >>> >>> Thanks for the info! A file path alone does not work for me. >>> Here is what I have tried. >>> In the Stack Script; >>> global dirName >>> on openStack >>> put the defaultFolder into dirName >>> end openStack >>> ?From a button on a card; >>> >>> global dirName >>> >>> on mouseUp >>> --/Users/JB/Desktop/Buss X-82/Buss X-82.app/Contents/Resources/myPic.jpg >>> put dirName & "/Buss X-82.app/Contents/Resources/myPic.jpg/" into fPath >>> put fPath >>> end mouseUp >>> >>> That is how I can get a file path but using this path will not work if the path >>> directs to a bundle but it will work if the file is not in a bundle. >> >> that's why LC gave us the specialfolderpath() codes! >> No need to mess around with DEFAULTFOLDER etc. on different platforms anymore. >> Especially if Apple likes to change things out of a sudden again! :-D >> >>> That being said how do I go about copying this file with specialfolderpath() ? >> >> See below... >> >>> Do I need to go to the standalone settings and add the file using copy files >>> section and then from within my app I can copy that file >> >> Yes, that's the way you should work. >> >>> but if I add it my self after the .app is made I will not be able to copy it? >> >> specialfolderpath("resources") will also work IF you copy your files >> to the correct folder inside of the APP package. >> >>> Are you saying this will return the path to my resource in my app and let >>> me copy it to the desktop? Do you have some more examples of copying >>> the file with this procedure? >> ... >> ## Copy your pic inside of the APP package to the Desktop folder: >> put specialfolderpath("desktop") & "/mypic.jpg" into tTargetFile >> put specialfolderpath("resources") & "/mypic.jpg" into tSourceFile >> if there is not a file tTargetfile then >> put url("binfile:" & tSourceFile) into url("binfile:" & tTargetFile) >> end if >> ... Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de klaus at major-k.de From sundown at pacifier.com Fri Sep 20 05:54:15 2019 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 02:54:15 -0700 Subject: Access Resource Files In-Reply-To: References: <78FBF0E0-2E8D-4397-B4FE-E08EACFB3D19@pacifier.com> <5D4E8623-CF14-48AF-A34A-D8D797FE5706@pacifier.com> <6DA5299A-3CC4-4384-949B-4597D812D754@major-k.de> <0666F72E-1185-4B47-86DF-01B2CDBE9CED@pacifier.com> Message-ID: <11F44F9E-1108-46AB-8BD8-B4F338DC46F4@pacifier.com> I used your code as it was and changed the name of the file to match your code. I did not use Copy files and added it on my own after it was built. I will try adding it to Copy files and see if that makes a difference. Thanks again! JB > On Sep 20, 2019, at 2:52 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi JB, > >> Am 20.09.2019 um 11:45 schrieb JB via use-livecode : >> >> Hi Klaus, >> >> That worked but the file that appeared on the desktop had >> no icon like was there before and the size is zero K. > > hm, I have been working this way since the old Metacard days, so no idea what's wrong. > Did you use my exact syntax? If not, please post your code. > > Did you create a standalone and added the pic via "Copy files"? > >> JB >> >> >>> On Sep 20, 2019, at 2:30 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> Hi JB, >>> >>>> Am 20.09.2019 um 11:11 schrieb JB via use-livecode : >>>> >>>> Hi Klaus, >>>> >>>> Thanks for the info! A file path alone does not work for me. >>>> Here is what I have tried. >>>> In the Stack Script; >>>> global dirName >>>> on openStack >>>> put the defaultFolder into dirName >>>> end openStack >>>> ?From a button on a card; >>>> >>>> global dirName >>>> >>>> on mouseUp >>>> --/Users/JB/Desktop/Buss X-82/Buss X-82.app/Contents/Resources/myPic.jpg >>>> put dirName & "/Buss X-82.app/Contents/Resources/myPic.jpg/" into fPath >>>> put fPath >>>> end mouseUp >>>> >>>> That is how I can get a file path but using this path will not work if the path >>>> directs to a bundle but it will work if the file is not in a bundle. >>> >>> that's why LC gave us the specialfolderpath() codes! >>> No need to mess around with DEFAULTFOLDER etc. on different platforms anymore. >>> Especially if Apple likes to change things out of a sudden again! :-D >>> >>>> That being said how do I go about copying this file with specialfolderpath() ? >>> >>> See below... >>> >>>> Do I need to go to the standalone settings and add the file using copy files >>>> section and then from within my app I can copy that file >>> >>> Yes, that's the way you should work. >>> >>>> but if I add it my self after the .app is made I will not be able to copy it? >>> >>> specialfolderpath("resources") will also work IF you copy your files >>> to the correct folder inside of the APP package. >>> >>>> Are you saying this will return the path to my resource in my app and let >>>> me copy it to the desktop? Do you have some more examples of copying >>>> the file with this procedure? >>> ... >>> ## Copy your pic inside of the APP package to the Desktop folder: >>> put specialfolderpath("desktop") & "/mypic.jpg" into tTargetFile >>> put specialfolderpath("resources") & "/mypic.jpg" into tSourceFile >>> if there is not a file tTargetfile then >>> put url("binfile:" & tSourceFile) into url("binfile:" & tTargetFile) >>> end if >>> ... > > Best > > Klaus > > -- > Klaus Major > https://www.major-k.de > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From klaus at major-k.de Fri Sep 20 06:02:52 2019 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 12:02:52 +0200 Subject: Access Resource Files In-Reply-To: <11F44F9E-1108-46AB-8BD8-B4F338DC46F4@pacifier.com> References: <78FBF0E0-2E8D-4397-B4FE-E08EACFB3D19@pacifier.com> <5D4E8623-CF14-48AF-A34A-D8D797FE5706@pacifier.com> <6DA5299A-3CC4-4384-949B-4597D812D754@major-k.de> <0666F72E-1185-4B47-86DF-01B2CDBE9CED@pacifier.com> <11F44F9E-1108-46AB-8BD8-B4F338DC46F4@pacifier.com> Message-ID: Hi JB, > Am 20.09.2019 um 11:54 schrieb JB via use-livecode : > > I used your code as it was and changed the name of the file > to match your code. > > I did not use Copy files and added it on my own after it > was built. as I wrote: ... IF you copy your files to the correct folder inside of the APP package. Cannot tell which one that is out of my head. > I will try adding it to Copy files and see if that makes a difference. Let you: ... answer specialfolderpath("resources") ... in the standalone and check if that is the folder you manually copied the file(s) to! > Thanks again! > JB Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de klaus at major-k.de From sundown at pacifier.com Fri Sep 20 06:02:53 2019 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 03:02:53 -0700 Subject: Access Resource Files In-Reply-To: References: <78FBF0E0-2E8D-4397-B4FE-E08EACFB3D19@pacifier.com> <5D4E8623-CF14-48AF-A34A-D8D797FE5706@pacifier.com> <6DA5299A-3CC4-4384-949B-4597D812D754@major-k.de> <0666F72E-1185-4B47-86DF-01B2CDBE9CED@pacifier.com> Message-ID: <466B1458-74A4-447C-BE7E-3A7903748EB3@pacifier.com> Hi Klaus, Okay, I tried it again. This time I added the file using Copy Files in the StandAlone Settings. After creating the standAlone the file was there in the macOs folder not the Resources folder but that is fine with me and the file was a copy of the original. I used your code as it is in a button by itself and the same thing happened. A file was created with the same name & extension but it has no icon and is zero bytes. Thanks for the help again, JB > On Sep 20, 2019, at 2:52 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi JB, > >> Am 20.09.2019 um 11:45 schrieb JB via use-livecode : >> >> Hi Klaus, >> >> That worked but the file that appeared on the desktop had >> no icon like was there before and the size is zero K. > > hm, I have been working this way since the old Metacard days, so no idea what's wrong. > Did you use my exact syntax? If not, please post your code. > > Did you create a standalone and added the pic via "Copy files"? > >> JB >> >> >>> On Sep 20, 2019, at 2:30 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> Hi JB, >>> >>>> Am 20.09.2019 um 11:11 schrieb JB via use-livecode : >>>> >>>> Hi Klaus, >>>> >>>> Thanks for the info! A file path alone does not work for me. >>>> Here is what I have tried. >>>> In the Stack Script; >>>> global dirName >>>> on openStack >>>> put the defaultFolder into dirName >>>> end openStack >>>> ?From a button on a card; >>>> >>>> global dirName >>>> >>>> on mouseUp >>>> --/Users/JB/Desktop/Buss X-82/Buss X-82.app/Contents/Resources/myPic.jpg >>>> put dirName & "/Buss X-82.app/Contents/Resources/myPic.jpg/" into fPath >>>> put fPath >>>> end mouseUp >>>> >>>> That is how I can get a file path but using this path will not work if the path >>>> directs to a bundle but it will work if the file is not in a bundle. >>> >>> that's why LC gave us the specialfolderpath() codes! >>> No need to mess around with DEFAULTFOLDER etc. on different platforms anymore. >>> Especially if Apple likes to change things out of a sudden again! :-D >>> >>>> That being said how do I go about copying this file with specialfolderpath() ? >>> >>> See below... >>> >>>> Do I need to go to the standalone settings and add the file using copy files >>>> section and then from within my app I can copy that file >>> >>> Yes, that's the way you should work. >>> >>>> but if I add it my self after the .app is made I will not be able to copy it? >>> >>> specialfolderpath("resources") will also work IF you copy your files >>> to the correct folder inside of the APP package. >>> >>>> Are you saying this will return the path to my resource in my app and let >>>> me copy it to the desktop? Do you have some more examples of copying >>>> the file with this procedure? >>> ... >>> ## Copy your pic inside of the APP package to the Desktop folder: >>> put specialfolderpath("desktop") & "/mypic.jpg" into tTargetFile >>> put specialfolderpath("resources") & "/mypic.jpg" into tSourceFile >>> if there is not a file tTargetfile then >>> put url("binfile:" & tSourceFile) into url("binfile:" & tTargetFile) >>> end if >>> ... > > Best > > Klaus > > -- > Klaus Major > https://www.major-k.de > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From sundown at pacifier.com Fri Sep 20 06:10:17 2019 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 03:10:17 -0700 Subject: Access Resource Files In-Reply-To: References: <78FBF0E0-2E8D-4397-B4FE-E08EACFB3D19@pacifier.com> <5D4E8623-CF14-48AF-A34A-D8D797FE5706@pacifier.com> <6DA5299A-3CC4-4384-949B-4597D812D754@major-k.de> <0666F72E-1185-4B47-86DF-01B2CDBE9CED@pacifier.com> <11F44F9E-1108-46AB-8BD8-B4F338DC46F4@pacifier.com> Message-ID: <007041AB-CA10-44EA-9FB2-AD3888B78213@pacifier.com> Now this is interesting! I added the code snipped you just gave me and put it above your other code. When I clicked the button it worked like a charm as far as copying the file to the desktop. That is great! But for some reason the answer dialog appeared like it should but it was empty. How did adding this before the other code make a difference and how can I make it work without it? Thank you very much! JB > On Sep 20, 2019, at 3:02 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi JB, > >> Am 20.09.2019 um 11:54 schrieb JB via use-livecode : >> >> I used your code as it was and changed the name of the file >> to match your code. >> >> I did not use Copy files and added it on my own after it >> was built. > > as I wrote: > .. IF you copy your files to the correct folder inside of the APP package. > > Cannot tell which one that is out of my head. > >> I will try adding it to Copy files and see if that makes a difference. > > Let you: > .. > answer specialfolderpath("resources") > .. > in the standalone and check if that is the folder you manually copied the file(s) to! > >> Thanks again! >> JB > > Best > > Klaus > > -- > Klaus Major > https://www.major-k.de > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From klaus at major-k.de Fri Sep 20 06:19:30 2019 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 12:19:30 +0200 Subject: Access Resource Files In-Reply-To: <007041AB-CA10-44EA-9FB2-AD3888B78213@pacifier.com> References: <78FBF0E0-2E8D-4397-B4FE-E08EACFB3D19@pacifier.com> <5D4E8623-CF14-48AF-A34A-D8D797FE5706@pacifier.com> <6DA5299A-3CC4-4384-949B-4597D812D754@major-k.de> <0666F72E-1185-4B47-86DF-01B2CDBE9CED@pacifier.com> <11F44F9E-1108-46AB-8BD8-B4F338DC46F4@pacifier.com> <007041AB-CA10-44EA-9FB2-AD3888B78213@pacifier.com> Message-ID: <002D5F7B-27A3-4207-9D00-02929E3B3603@major-k.de> Hi JB > Am 20.09.2019 um 12:10 schrieb JB via use-livecode : > > Now this is interesting! > > I added the code snipped you just gave me and put > it above your other code. > > When I clicked the button it worked like a charm as > far as copying the file to the desktop. That is great! > > But for some reason the answer dialog appeared > like it should but it was empty. How did adding > this before the other code make a difference and > how can I make it work without it? made a test on my own with the same script and with "Copy files", the resulting file on my desktop has an icon and is an exact copy of the original file. ... answer specialfolderpath("resources") put specialfolderpath("desktop") & "/mypic.jpg" into tTargetFile put specialfolderpath("resources") & "/3d3.jpg" into tSourceFile if there is not a file tTargetfile then put url("binfile:" & tSourceFile) into url("binfile:" & tTargetFile) end if ... And MY answer dialog showed the correct path!? What version of LC are you using on what macOS version? specialfolderpath("resources") in a standalone gave me: (my desktop folder)/el_testo.app/Contents/Resources/_MacOS Maybe you need to create that _MacOS folder when copying your files manually into the standalone. > Thank you very much! > JB Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de klaus at major-k.de From sundown at pacifier.com Fri Sep 20 06:17:45 2019 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 03:17:45 -0700 Subject: Access Resource Files In-Reply-To: References: <78FBF0E0-2E8D-4397-B4FE-E08EACFB3D19@pacifier.com> <5D4E8623-CF14-48AF-A34A-D8D797FE5706@pacifier.com> <6DA5299A-3CC4-4384-949B-4597D812D754@major-k.de> <0666F72E-1185-4B47-86DF-01B2CDBE9CED@pacifier.com> <11F44F9E-1108-46AB-8BD8-B4F338DC46F4@pacifier.com> Message-ID: <3A5FE70B-61EF-423F-8427-429401EBDE75@pacifier.com> It only worked correctly that one time and now it is back to no icon zero bytes. JB > On Sep 20, 2019, at 3:02 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi JB, > >> Am 20.09.2019 um 11:54 schrieb JB via use-livecode : >> >> I used your code as it was and changed the name of the file >> to match your code. >> >> I did not use Copy files and added it on my own after it >> was built. > > as I wrote: > .. IF you copy your files to the correct folder inside of the APP package. > > Cannot tell which one that is out of my head. > >> I will try adding it to Copy files and see if that makes a difference. > > Let you: > .. > answer specialfolderpath("resources") > .. > in the standalone and check if that is the folder you manually copied the file(s) to! > >> Thanks again! >> JB > > Best > > Klaus > > -- > Klaus Major > https://www.major-k.de > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From sundown at pacifier.com Fri Sep 20 06:24:50 2019 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 03:24:50 -0700 Subject: Access Resource Files In-Reply-To: <002D5F7B-27A3-4207-9D00-02929E3B3603@major-k.de> References: <78FBF0E0-2E8D-4397-B4FE-E08EACFB3D19@pacifier.com> <5D4E8623-CF14-48AF-A34A-D8D797FE5706@pacifier.com> <6DA5299A-3CC4-4384-949B-4597D812D754@major-k.de> <0666F72E-1185-4B47-86DF-01B2CDBE9CED@pacifier.com> <11F44F9E-1108-46AB-8BD8-B4F338DC46F4@pacifier.com> <007041AB-CA10-44EA-9FB2-AD3888B78213@pacifier.com> <002D5F7B-27A3-4207-9D00-02929E3B3603@major-k.de> Message-ID: <30EBB6CB-0560-4C39-BEB2-6061A48DE61C@pacifier.com> The MacOs folder is there and the file gets added to it automatically. As for what version I am using it is Revolution Enterprise 4.5.0. I needed to use some things in the Enterprise version that are only in a commercial version of LiveCode. When I get some more money I will upgrade to LiveCode commercial version but for now pretty much every thing I want to do with this small program will work with the version I am using. If I ever get it working correctly I willl let you know. Thanks for the help! JB > On Sep 20, 2019, at 3:19 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi JB > >> Am 20.09.2019 um 12:10 schrieb JB via use-livecode : >> >> Now this is interesting! >> >> I added the code snipped you just gave me and put >> it above your other code. >> >> When I clicked the button it worked like a charm as >> far as copying the file to the desktop. That is great! >> >> But for some reason the answer dialog appeared >> like it should but it was empty. How did adding >> this before the other code make a difference and >> how can I make it work without it? > > made a test on my own with the same script and with "Copy files", > the resulting file on my desktop has an icon and is an exact copy of > the original file. > .. > answer specialfolderpath("resources") > put specialfolderpath("desktop") & "/mypic.jpg" into tTargetFile > put specialfolderpath("resources") & "/3d3.jpg" into tSourceFile > if there is not a file tTargetfile then > put url("binfile:" & tSourceFile) into url("binfile:" & tTargetFile) > end if > .. > > And MY answer dialog showed the correct path!? > What version of LC are you using on what macOS version? > > specialfolderpath("resources") in a standalone gave me: > (my desktop folder)/el_testo.app/Contents/Resources/_MacOS > > Maybe you need to create that _MacOS folder when copying your > files manually into the standalone. > >> Thank you very much! >> JB > > Best > > Klaus > > -- > Klaus Major > https://www.major-k.de > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From klaus at major-k.de Fri Sep 20 06:29:48 2019 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 12:29:48 +0200 Subject: Access Resource Files In-Reply-To: <30EBB6CB-0560-4C39-BEB2-6061A48DE61C@pacifier.com> References: <78FBF0E0-2E8D-4397-B4FE-E08EACFB3D19@pacifier.com> <5D4E8623-CF14-48AF-A34A-D8D797FE5706@pacifier.com> <6DA5299A-3CC4-4384-949B-4597D812D754@major-k.de> <0666F72E-1185-4B47-86DF-01B2CDBE9CED@pacifier.com> <11F44F9E-1108-46AB-8BD8-B4F338DC46F4@pacifier.com> <007041AB-CA10-44EA-9FB2-AD3888B78213@pacifier.com> <002D5F7B-27A3-4207-9D00-02929E3B3603@major-k.de> <30EBB6CB-0560-4C39-BEB2-6061A48DE61C@pacifier.com> Message-ID: <872AB997-DEED-4837-8BC1-FBF24D06B02B@major-k.de> > Am 20.09.2019 um 12:24 schrieb JB via use-livecode : > > The MacOs folder is there and the file gets added > to it automatically. As for what version I am using > it is Revolution Enterprise 4.5.0. I needed to use > some things in the Enterprise version that are > only in a commercial version of LiveCode. When > I get some more money I will upgrade to LiveCode > commercial version but for now pretty much every > thing I want to do with this small program will work > with the version I am using. > > If I ever get it working correctly I willl let you know. fine, thanks, since I am out of ideas in the moment... 8-) > Thanks for the help! > JB Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de klaus at major-k.de From klaus at major-k.de Fri Sep 20 06:34:07 2019 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 12:34:07 +0200 Subject: SFTP and Community version Message-ID: <5FB35FE0-DCD5-4439-BAD7-0A5BA7312EAE@major-k.de> Hi friends, unfortunately there is no entry/hint for SFTP in the dictionary. :-/ I know that tsNet does support SFTP in the commercial versions of LC, but does the scripted "liburl" in the community version of LC support SFTP, too? Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de klaus at major-k.de From sundown at pacifier.com Fri Sep 20 06:32:03 2019 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 03:32:03 -0700 Subject: Access Resource Files In-Reply-To: <872AB997-DEED-4837-8BC1-FBF24D06B02B@major-k.de> References: <78FBF0E0-2E8D-4397-B4FE-E08EACFB3D19@pacifier.com> <5D4E8623-CF14-48AF-A34A-D8D797FE5706@pacifier.com> <6DA5299A-3CC4-4384-949B-4597D812D754@major-k.de> <0666F72E-1185-4B47-86DF-01B2CDBE9CED@pacifier.com> <11F44F9E-1108-46AB-8BD8-B4F338DC46F4@pacifier.com> <007041AB-CA10-44EA-9FB2-AD3888B78213@pacifier.com> <002D5F7B-27A3-4207-9D00-02929E3B3603@major-k.de> <30EBB6CB-0560-4C39-BEB2-6061A48DE61C@pacifier.com> <872AB997-DEED-4837-8BC1-FBF24D06B02B@major-k.de> Message-ID: <1B04CC66-4756-4A9A-BD0B-1A3DC71F62C4@pacifier.com> Thanks again for your help! JB > On Sep 20, 2019, at 3:29 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > > > >> Am 20.09.2019 um 12:24 schrieb JB via use-livecode : >> >> The MacOs folder is there and the file gets added >> to it automatically. As for what version I am using >> it is Revolution Enterprise 4.5.0. I needed to use >> some things in the Enterprise version that are >> only in a commercial version of LiveCode. When >> I get some more money I will upgrade to LiveCode >> commercial version but for now pretty much every >> thing I want to do with this small program will work >> with the version I am using. >> >> If I ever get it working correctly I willl let you know. > > fine, thanks, since I am out of ideas in the moment... 8-) > >> Thanks for the help! >> JB > > Best > > Klaus > > -- > Klaus Major > https://www.major-k.de > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From hh at hyperhh.de Fri Sep 20 08:14:23 2019 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 14:14:23 +0200 Subject: SFTP and Community version Message-ID: No. See line 568 to 574 of revliburl.livecodescript (put "sftp protocol not supported in this version") From klaus at major-k.de Fri Sep 20 08:25:44 2019 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 14:25:44 +0200 Subject: SFTP and Community version In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2F9EF652-B70D-4ABC-B272-760DCB5BC8B4@major-k.de> Hi Hermann, > Am 20.09.2019 um 14:14 schrieb hh via use-livecode : > > No. > See line 568 to 574 of revliburl.livecodescript > (put "sftp protocol not supported in this version") ok, thank you for the confirmation! Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de klaus at major-k.de From jjs at krutt.org Fri Sep 20 10:08:57 2019 From: jjs at krutt.org (JJS) Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 16:08:57 +0200 Subject: Print to PDF on Android? In-Reply-To: <5BBDEF69-75E0-48D9-B7FC-BE34C1182637@elementarysoftware.com> References: <293F2A8F-B008-4DD1-B993-9CCCBA8848F8@major-k.de> <70FBCE3C-D8DF-4A0A-A75E-1FA95F3745DD@clearvisiontech.com> <5BBDEF69-75E0-48D9-B7FC-BE34C1182637@elementarysoftware.com> Message-ID: <4a33883a-e5c9-0b5f-2b07-cde0c5e921a5@krutt.org> A workaround could be (for text) (for photos or mixed with text i don't know for sure) save text as a text file launch the text file in a browser (we can laung a url or browser so also probably the url of the file where it is stored) then in the browser press the 3 dots in the right upper corner then press SHARE and you can print it. If you have Opera browser installed, then there is an option to save the page as a PDF and you can also print In FireFox you have to press PAGE and then you can choose save as PDF or PRINT in Chrome i see no option to save as PDF. Maybe you can save the whole as an html file with text and photos, then launch a browser, then save as pdf or print it. I'm gonna try someting, for me it's just text to print with this project. One advantage of Opera is it has standard unlimited VPN. Doei, Jerry Op 20-9-2019 om 05:46 schreef scott--- via use-livecode: > Hello Dan, > > Hello Dan, > > For Android PDF creation I use Jan Schenkel?s Quartum PDF Library. It isn?t an ideal (or even possible) solution in many cases because it doesn?t support unicode but in my case that wasn?t a deal breaker. > > -- > Scott Morrow > > Elementary Software > (Now with 20% less chalk dust!) > web https://elementarysoftware.com/ > email scott at elementarysoftware.com > booth 1-800-615-0867 > ------------------------------------------------------ > > >> On Sep 19, 2019, at 9:47 AM, Dan Friedman via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Come on LiveCode!! We really can't generate one of the most popular file formats on the most popular mobile platform? This is a joke! This is a MAJOR issue for me and I am sure others. This pretty much kills my project. Damn. >> >> -Dan >> >> >> ?On 9/19/19, 9:41 AM, "use-livecode on behalf of Klaus major-k via use-livecode" wrote: >> >> Hi Dan, >> >>> Am 19.09.2019 um 18:39 schrieb Dan Friedman via use-livecode : >>> >>> I can't seem to find a way to generate a PDF on Android. Is this really not possible? >> no, unfortunately still not supported by LC. >> >>> Thanks! >>> -Dan >> Best >> >> Klaus >> >> -- >> Klaus Major >> https://www.major-k.de >> klaus at major-k.de >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From Bernd.Niggemann at uni-wh.de Fri Sep 20 13:10:02 2019 From: Bernd.Niggemann at uni-wh.de (Niggemann, Bernd) Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 17:10:02 +0000 Subject: Access Resource Files In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3BA14BA1-D0B2-4C27-B615-9E80F5619411@uni-wh.de> answer specialfolderpath("resources") ... in the standalone and check if that is the folder you manually copied the file(s) to! specialfolderpath("resources") was introduced in LC 6.7.5 (from the dictionary) Kind regards Bernd From sundown at pacifier.com Fri Sep 20 13:31:01 2019 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 10:31:01 -0700 Subject: Access Resource Files In-Reply-To: <3BA14BA1-D0B2-4C27-B615-9E80F5619411@uni-wh.de> References: <3BA14BA1-D0B2-4C27-B615-9E80F5619411@uni-wh.de> Message-ID: Thank you for the info. I am using a earlier version and specialfolderpath("resources?) is not available but specialfolderpath(?desktop?) and others are available. I don?t think it is possible without specific code written by those who made the app bundle. Things like NSBundle etc seem to be built for use by the app developer and the links don?t work for others who are not accessing it at that level. thanks again, JB > On Sep 20, 2019, at 10:10 AM, Niggemann, Bernd via use-livecode wrote: > > > answer specialfolderpath("resources") > .. > in the standalone and check if that is the folder you manually copied the file(s) to! > > > > specialfolderpath("resources") was introduced in LC 6.7.5 (from the dictionary) > > > Kind regards > > Bernd > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From klaus at major-k.de Fri Sep 20 13:45:01 2019 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 19:45:01 +0200 Subject: Access Resource Files In-Reply-To: References: <3BA14BA1-D0B2-4C27-B615-9E80F5619411@uni-wh.de> Message-ID: <2EC7E596-45FC-46A4-9D57-72B4F2A42CB6@major-k.de> Hi JB, > Am 20.09.2019 um 19:31 schrieb JB via use-livecode : > > Thank you for the info. > > I am using a earlier version and specialfolderpath("resources?) is not > available ah, yes, I saw that specialfolderpath() codes have been introduced in LC 1.1 but did no know that the RESOURCES folder came later. > but specialfolderpath(?desktop?) and others are available. > I don?t think it is possible without specific code written by those who > made the app bundle. Things like NSBundle etc seem to be built > for use by the app developer and the links don?t work for others > who are not accessing it at that level. I think in older versions of LC the files got copied in to the same folder as the runtime, so if -> specialfolderpath("engines") is already supported by your version of LC you could try that one: ... put specialfolderpath("desktop") & "/mypic.jpg" into tTargetFile put specialfolderpath("engine") & "/mypic.jpg" into tSourceFile if there is not a file tTargetfile then put url("binfile:" & tSourceFile) into url("binfile:" & tTargetFile) end if ... If not supported, the you need to do it manually: ... put specialfolderpath("desktop") & "/mypic.jpg" into tTargetFile ## This is the runtime: put the effective filename of this stack into tSourceFile set itemdel to "/" put "mypic.jpg" into item -1 of tSourceFile if there is not a file tTargetfile then put url("binfile:" & tSourceFile) into url("binfile:" & tTargetFile) end if ... You get the picture... > thanks again, > JB > >> On Sep 20, 2019, at 10:10 AM, Niggemann, Bernd via use-livecode wrote: >> answer specialfolderpath("resources") >> .. >> in the standalone and check if that is the folder you manually copied the file(s) to! >> specialfolderpath("resources") was introduced in LC 6.7.5 (from the dictionary) Which explains your empty dialog! :-) Best Klaus -- Klaus Major https://www.major-k.de klaus at major-k.de From sundown at pacifier.com Fri Sep 20 13:50:31 2019 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 10:50:31 -0700 Subject: Access Resource Files In-Reply-To: <2EC7E596-45FC-46A4-9D57-72B4F2A42CB6@major-k.de> References: <3BA14BA1-D0B2-4C27-B615-9E80F5619411@uni-wh.de> <2EC7E596-45FC-46A4-9D57-72B4F2A42CB6@major-k.de> Message-ID: Thanks Klaus, I will give it a try and then get back with the details. JB > On Sep 20, 2019, at 10:45 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi JB, > >> Am 20.09.2019 um 19:31 schrieb JB via use-livecode : >> >> Thank you for the info. >> >> I am using a earlier version and specialfolderpath("resources?) is not >> available > > ah, yes, I saw that specialfolderpath() codes have been introduced in LC 1.1 > but did no know that the RESOURCES folder came later. > >> but specialfolderpath(?desktop?) and others are available. >> I don?t think it is possible without specific code written by those who >> made the app bundle. Things like NSBundle etc seem to be built >> for use by the app developer and the links don?t work for others >> who are not accessing it at that level. > > I think in older versions of LC the files got copied in to the same folder as the runtime, > so if -> specialfolderpath("engines") is already supported by your version of LC you > could try that one: > ... > put specialfolderpath("desktop") & "/mypic.jpg" into tTargetFile > put specialfolderpath("engine") & "/mypic.jpg" into tSourceFile > if there is not a file tTargetfile then > put url("binfile:" & tSourceFile) into url("binfile:" & tTargetFile) > end if > ... > > If not supported, the you need to do it manually: > ... > put specialfolderpath("desktop") & "/mypic.jpg" into tTargetFile > > ## This is the runtime: > put the effective filename of this stack into tSourceFile > set itemdel to "/" > put "mypic.jpg" into item -1 of tSourceFile > if there is not a file tTargetfile then > put url("binfile:" & tSourceFile) into url("binfile:" & tTargetFile) > end if > ... > > You get the picture... > >> thanks again, >> JB >> >>> On Sep 20, 2019, at 10:10 AM, Niggemann, Bernd via use-livecode wrote: >>> answer specialfolderpath("resources") >>> .. >>> in the standalone and check if that is the folder you manually copied the file(s) to! >>> specialfolderpath("resources") was introduced in LC 6.7.5 (from the dictionary) > > Which explains your empty dialog! :-) > > > Best > > Klaus > -- > Klaus Major > https://www.major-k.de > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From sundown at pacifier.com Fri Sep 20 14:12:27 2019 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 11:12:27 -0700 Subject: Access Resource Files In-Reply-To: <2EC7E596-45FC-46A4-9D57-72B4F2A42CB6@major-k.de> References: <3BA14BA1-D0B2-4C27-B615-9E80F5619411@uni-wh.de> <2EC7E596-45FC-46A4-9D57-72B4F2A42CB6@major-k.de> Message-ID: Hi Klaus, Okay, the first version does the same thing as the others. No icon file size zero bytes. I tried answer specialfolderpath("engine?) and the dialog was empty again. But Klaus you are really GOOD!! --This code works! Klaus Major provided it. put specialfolderpath("desktop") & "/mypic.jpg" into tTargetFile ## This is the runtime: put the effective filename of this stack into tSourceFile set itemdel to "/" put "mypic.jpg" into item -1 of tSourceFile if there is not a file tTargetfile then put url("binfile:" & tSourceFile) into url("binfile:" & tTargetFile) end if THIS WORKS PERFECT!!! THANK YOU! JB > On Sep 20, 2019, at 10:45 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi JB, > >> Am 20.09.2019 um 19:31 schrieb JB via use-livecode : >> >> Thank you for the info. >> >> I am using a earlier version and specialfolderpath("resources?) is not >> available > > ah, yes, I saw that specialfolderpath() codes have been introduced in LC 1.1 > but did no know that the RESOURCES folder came later. > >> but specialfolderpath(?desktop?) and others are available. >> I don?t think it is possible without specific code written by those who >> made the app bundle. Things like NSBundle etc seem to be built >> for use by the app developer and the links don?t work for others >> who are not accessing it at that level. > > I think in older versions of LC the files got copied in to the same folder as the runtime, > so if -> specialfolderpath("engines") is already supported by your version of LC you > could try that one: > ... > put specialfolderpath("desktop") & "/mypic.jpg" into tTargetFile > put specialfolderpath("engine") & "/mypic.jpg" into tSourceFile > if there is not a file tTargetfile then > put url("binfile:" & tSourceFile) into url("binfile:" & tTargetFile) > end if > ... > > If not supported, the you need to do it manually: > ... > put specialfolderpath("desktop") & "/mypic.jpg" into tTargetFile > > ## This is the runtime: > put the effective filename of this stack into tSourceFile > set itemdel to "/" > put "mypic.jpg" into item -1 of tSourceFile > if there is not a file tTargetfile then > put url("binfile:" & tSourceFile) into url("binfile:" & tTargetFile) > end if > ... > > You get the picture... > >> thanks again, >> JB >> >>> On Sep 20, 2019, at 10:10 AM, Niggemann, Bernd via use-livecode wrote: >>> answer specialfolderpath("resources") >>> .. >>> in the standalone and check if that is the folder you manually copied the file(s) to! >>> specialfolderpath("resources") was introduced in LC 6.7.5 (from the dictionary) > > Which explains your empty dialog! :-) > > > Best > > Klaus > -- > Klaus Major > https://www.major-k.de > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From lists at mangomultimedia.com Fri Sep 20 14:14:37 2019 From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore) Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 13:14:37 -0500 Subject: DataView Paginated Scroll Message-ID: Howdy folks, I've uploaded a new behavior built on top of the DataView which facilities progressively loading paginated API data as you scroll. I needed this for an application and I've tried to abstract it and document it so that it might be useful to others. It is called DataView Paginated Scroll. For those who use APIs that return "pages" of results (e.g. records 1-20 of 760 records) this extension of the DataView control greatly simplifies knowing when to ask the server for more records. For example, if the user scrolls to the end of the DataView you don't need all of the results in between the beginning and end. You just need the last page. The DataView is intelligent in that regard and only requests the lats page of results to display. I've updated the DataView Demo project on GitHub with a Pokemon tab that uses an publicly available API that lists Pokemon. You can find the demo repo here: https://github.com/trevordevore/dataview_demo/tree/master The actual DataView Paginated Scroll helper repo is here: https://github.com/trevordevore/levurehelper-dataview_paginated_scroll -- Trevor DeVore ScreenSteps www.screensteps.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Sep 20 16:16:01 2019 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 15:16:01 -0500 Subject: No object selected In-Reply-To: References: <64A70F58-5EB2-44F5-9E60-F7C01FE0F342@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2462b6c7-b3f3-dff5-88d2-27ff08e6c42b@hyperactivesw.com> On 9/19/19 4:01 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > On 9/19/19 10:05 AM, Marty Knapp via use-livecode wrote: >> Anybody had this happen - I have an older LC stack that works fine and >> in LC 9.5 I can edit the script of all the controls, but when I try to >> open the property inspector it will show the name of the object at the >> top of the inspector window but is says "no object selected" The only >> exception is for the stack itself, it will open for that. > > Yep. Have seen that one. Pre-9.5 works ok. > Same problem with the message box too. The label shows the stack name but the handlers can't be found. This goes back a ways but is more pronounced in 9.5. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jjs at krutt.org Fri Sep 20 16:53:11 2019 From: jjs at krutt.org (JJS) Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 22:53:11 +0200 Subject: Print to PDF on Android? In-Reply-To: <4a33883a-e5c9-0b5f-2b07-cde0c5e921a5@krutt.org> References: <293F2A8F-B008-4DD1-B993-9CCCBA8848F8@major-k.de> <70FBCE3C-D8DF-4A0A-A75E-1FA95F3745DD@clearvisiontech.com> <5BBDEF69-75E0-48D9-B7FC-BE34C1182637@elementarysoftware.com> <4a33883a-e5c9-0b5f-2b07-cde0c5e921a5@krutt.org> Message-ID: <02d12126-133b-c4c7-b16c-5550deb3ca42@krutt.org> Nice. Save a simple text as html and then launch it opens the browser. *launch URL ("file:" & specialFolderPath("documents") & "order.html")* It seems Chrome can print to pdf after all, press share and print, then you can choose. So next i want to add an image. And therefore i will export the image to a jpg or whatever file, then save the text written as html markup language instead of plain text, and add the image url as reference. see if that works also. Doei, Jerry Op 20-9-2019 om 16:08 schreef JJS via use-livecode: > A workaround could be (for text) (for photos or mixed with text i > don't know for sure) > > save text as a text file > > launch the text file in a browser (we can laung a url or browser so > also probably the url of the file where it is stored) > > then in the browser press the 3 dots in the right upper corner > > then press SHARE and you can print it. > > > If you have Opera browser installed, then there is an option to save > the page as a PDF and you can also print > > In FireFox you have to press PAGE and then you can choose save as PDF > or PRINT > > in Chrome i see no option to save as PDF. > > Maybe you can save the whole as an html file with text and photos, > then launch a browser, then save as pdf or print it. > > > I'm gonna try someting, for me it's just text to print with this project. > > One advantage of Opera is it has standard unlimited VPN. > > > Doei, > > Jerry > > > Op 20-9-2019 om 05:46 schreef scott--- via use-livecode: >> Hello Dan, >> >> Hello Dan, >> >> For Android PDF creation I use Jan Schenkel?s? Quartum PDF Library.? >> ? It isn?t an ideal? (or even possible) >> solution in many cases because it doesn?t support unicode but in my >> case that wasn?t a deal breaker. >> >> -- >> Scott Morrow >> >> Elementary Software >> (Now with 20% less chalk dust!) >> web?????? https://elementarysoftware.com/ >> email???? scott at elementarysoftware.com >> booth??? 1-800-615-0867 >> ------------------------------------------------------ >> >> >>> On Sep 19, 2019, at 9:47 AM, Dan Friedman via use-livecode >>> wrote: >>> >>> Come on LiveCode!!? We really can't generate one of the most popular >>> file formats on the most popular mobile platform? This is a joke!?? >>> This is a MAJOR issue for me and I am sure others.? This pretty much >>> kills my project.? Damn. >>> >>> -Dan >>> >>> >>> ?On 9/19/19, 9:41 AM, "use-livecode on behalf of Klaus major-k via >>> use-livecode" >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> >>> ??? Hi Dan, >>> >>>> Am 19.09.2019 um 18:39 schrieb Dan Friedman via use-livecode >>>> : >>>> >>>> I can't seem to find a way to generate a PDF on Android.? Is this >>>> really not possible? >>> ??? no, unfortunately still not supported by LC. >>> >>>> Thanks! >>>> -Dan >>> ??? Best >>> >>> ??? Klaus >>> >>> ??? -- >>> ??? Klaus Major >>> ??? https://www.major-k.de >>> ??? klaus at major-k.de >>> >>> >>> ??? _______________________________________________ >>> ??? use-livecode mailing list >>> ??? use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> ??? Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> ??? http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dan at clearvisiontech.com Fri Sep 20 17:06:38 2019 From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman) Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 21:06:38 +0000 Subject: Print to PDF on Android? In-Reply-To: <02d12126-133b-c4c7-b16c-5550deb3ca42@krutt.org> References: <293F2A8F-B008-4DD1-B993-9CCCBA8848F8@major-k.de> <70FBCE3C-D8DF-4A0A-A75E-1FA95F3745DD@clearvisiontech.com> <5BBDEF69-75E0-48D9-B7FC-BE34C1182637@elementarysoftware.com> <4a33883a-e5c9-0b5f-2b07-cde0c5e921a5@krutt.org> <02d12126-133b-c4c7-b16c-5550deb3ca42@krutt.org> Message-ID: <145327B9-D0CF-4DD8-AE14-DA365021C99C@clearvisiontech.com> While you may see this as a workaround, it is not. Having to leave your application to produce the PDF is absolutely unacceptable and unprofessional. It's also dangerous to even talk about. I fear the fine folks at LiveCode will say, "Great! They have a workaround. Looks like we don't have to deal with this at all!". LiveCode, this is a pretty big hole in the functionality of LC. I do hope you will address this issue ??and soon! -Dan ?On 9/20/19, 1:54 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of JJS via use-livecode" wrote: Nice. Save a simple text as html and then launch it opens the browser. *launch URL ("file:" & specialFolderPath("documents") & "order.html")* It seems Chrome can print to pdf after all, press share and print, then you can choose. So next i want to add an image. And therefore i will export the image to a jpg or whatever file, then save the text written as html markup language instead of plain text, and add the image url as reference. see if that works also. Doei, Jerry Op 20-9-2019 om 16:08 schreef JJS via use-livecode: > A workaround could be (for text) (for photos or mixed with text i > don't know for sure) > > save text as a text file > > launch the text file in a browser (we can laung a url or browser so > also probably the url of the file where it is stored) > > then in the browser press the 3 dots in the right upper corner > > then press SHARE and you can print it. > > > If you have Opera browser installed, then there is an option to save > the page as a PDF and you can also print > > In FireFox you have to press PAGE and then you can choose save as PDF > or PRINT > > in Chrome i see no option to save as PDF. > > Maybe you can save the whole as an html file with text and photos, > then launch a browser, then save as pdf or print it. > > > I'm gonna try someting, for me it's just text to print with this project. > > One advantage of Opera is it has standard unlimited VPN. > > > Doei, > > Jerry > > > Op 20-9-2019 om 05:46 schreef scott--- via use-livecode: >> Hello Dan, >> >> Hello Dan, >> >> For Android PDF creation I use Jan Schenkel?s Quartum PDF Library. >> It isn?t an ideal (or even possible) >> solution in many cases because it doesn?t support unicode but in my >> case that wasn?t a deal breaker. >> >> -- >> Scott Morrow >> >> Elementary Software >> (Now with 20% less chalk dust!) >> web https://elementarysoftware.com/ >> email scott at elementarysoftware.com >> booth 1-800-615-0867 >> ------------------------------------------------------ >> >> >>> On Sep 19, 2019, at 9:47 AM, Dan Friedman via use-livecode >>> wrote: >>> >>> Come on LiveCode!! We really can't generate one of the most popular >>> file formats on the most popular mobile platform? This is a joke! >>> This is a MAJOR issue for me and I am sure others. This pretty much >>> kills my project. Damn. >>> >>> -Dan >>> >>> >>> On 9/19/19, 9:41 AM, "use-livecode on behalf of Klaus major-k via >>> use-livecode" >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Dan, >>> >>>> Am 19.09.2019 um 18:39 schrieb Dan Friedman via use-livecode >>>> : >>>> >>>> I can't seem to find a way to generate a PDF on Android. Is this >>>> really not possible? >>> no, unfortunately still not supported by LC. >>> >>>> Thanks! >>>> -Dan >>> Best >>> >>> Klaus >>> >>> -- >>> Klaus Major >>> https://www.major-k.de >>> klaus at major-k.de >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Sep 20 17:17:08 2019 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 21:17:08 +0000 Subject: No object selected In-Reply-To: <2462b6c7-b3f3-dff5-88d2-27ff08e6c42b@hyperactivesw.com> References: <64A70F58-5EB2-44F5-9E60-F7C01FE0F342@gmail.com> <2462b6c7-b3f3-dff5-88d2-27ff08e6c42b@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <974A1671-D49C-4ABB-9DF4-3CEB01B8DC32@iotecdigital.com> I wonder what happens if you copy a card to a new stack, save it then use the inspector? Bob S > On Sep 20, 2019, at 13:16 , J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > > On 9/19/19 4:01 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: >> On 9/19/19 10:05 AM, Marty Knapp via use-livecode wrote: >>> Anybody had this happen - I have an older LC stack that works fine and in LC 9.5 I can edit the script of all the controls, but when I try to open the property inspector it will show the name of the object at the top of the inspector window but is says "no object selected" The only exception is for the stack itself, it will open for that. >> Yep. Have seen that one. Pre-9.5 works ok. > > Same problem with the message box too. The label shows the stack name but the handlers can't be found. This goes back a ways but is more pronounced in 9.5. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dan.soneson at gmail.com Fri Sep 20 17:27:49 2019 From: dan.soneson at gmail.com (Dan Soneson) Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 16:27:49 -0500 Subject: Audio Recording with cameracontrol Message-ID: I am trying to update audio recording capabilities in LiveCode, now that we soon won't be able to use QuickTime any longer, even on Macs. I've been trying to use cameracontrol to do the recording, but have quickly run into 2 major bugs, I think - one an absolute showstopper: I set the videoDevice to empty, so as to only record the audio. It seems I am able to record audio only for 10 seconds or less. Once I go beyond 10 seconds the resulting file is unreadable, and simply doesn't play in the player. Can anyone get a successful, playable audio recording longer than 10 seconds? When I enable the video recording as well, I get a lovely video recording with audio if the recording is 10 seconds or shorter. Once the video is longer than 10 seconds, there is no audio at all but the video is still lovely. So the file plays, but there is no audio. Am I alone in experiencing these problems? Is there another way to do audio recording, since we can no longer do "record sound" (since it is not available for Windows, and is restricted to 32 bit applications on Mac)? Platform: MacOS Mojave LiveCode Business 9.04 Thanks, Dan From phil at pdslabs.net Fri Sep 20 19:03:59 2019 From: phil at pdslabs.net (Phil Davis) Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 16:03:59 -0700 Subject: Audio Recording with cameracontrol In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Dan, I haven't used cameracontrol, but... In a Mac-only app I built for a client, I used the 'sox' commandline app for recording. It has been quite reliable now for several years. Like so: command audio_startRecording* *??? put into sRecorderApp ??? put into sFilename ??? put sRecorderApp \ ????? && "-q -d -r 22050 -b 16 -e signed -c 1" \ ????? && sFilename \ ? ? ? into sCommand -- settings are for recording speech ??? open process sCommand for neither end audio_startRecording command audio_stopRecording ??? -- get the sox process ID ??? filter shell("ps -A") with ("*" & sRecorderApp & "*") into tList ??? put word 1 of tList into tPID ??? -- end the sox process ??? put shell("kill -s INT" && tPID) into sCommandStatus ??? # Tells 'kill' to send SIGINT to the recorder app - equivalent to control-c in Terminal ??? -- close the LC process ??? put empty into tResult ??? try ??????? close process sCommand ??????? put the result into tResult ??? catch tErr ??????? put tErr into tResult ??? end try ??? -- return the filename ??? return sFilename end audio_stopRecording I imagine there are other commandline apps that would work as well. Hope this helps - Phil Davis On 9/20/19 2:27 PM, Dan Soneson via use-livecode wrote: > I am trying to update audio recording capabilities in LiveCode, now that we > soon won't be able to use QuickTime any longer, even on Macs. I've been > trying to use cameracontrol to do the recording, but have quickly run into > 2 major bugs, I think - one an absolute showstopper: > > I set the videoDevice to empty, so as to only record the audio. It seems I > am able to record audio only for 10 seconds or less. Once I go beyond 10 > seconds the resulting file is unreadable, and simply doesn't play in the > player. Can anyone get a successful, playable audio recording longer than > 10 seconds? > > When I enable the video recording as well, I get a lovely video recording > with audio if the recording is 10 seconds or shorter. Once the video is > longer than 10 seconds, there is no audio at all but the video is still > lovely. So the file plays, but there is no audio. > > Am I alone in experiencing these problems? Is there another way to do audio > recording, since we can no longer do "record sound" (since it is not > available for Windows, and is restricted to 32 bit applications on Mac)? > > Platform: MacOS Mojave > LiveCode Business 9.04 > > Thanks, > Dan > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > -- Phil Davis 503-307-4363 From martyknappster at gmail.com Fri Sep 20 19:47:37 2019 From: martyknappster at gmail.com (Martin Knapp) Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2019 16:47:37 -0700 Subject: No object selected In-Reply-To: <974A1671-D49C-4ABB-9DF4-3CEB01B8DC32@iotecdigital.com> References: <64A70F58-5EB2-44F5-9E60-F7C01FE0F342@gmail.com> <2462b6c7-b3f3-dff5-88d2-27ff08e6c42b@hyperactivesw.com> <974A1671-D49C-4ABB-9DF4-3CEB01B8DC32@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: I did successfully copied a whole group of controls and pasted into a new stack. Then I can access the property inspector. So I guess I?ll just have to rebuild the stack. Marty > On Sep 20, 2019, at 2:17 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > > I wonder what happens if you copy a card to a new stack, save it then use the inspector? > > Bob S > > >> On Sep 20, 2019, at 13:16 , J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >> >> On 9/19/19 4:01 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: >>> On 9/19/19 10:05 AM, Marty Knapp via use-livecode wrote: >>>> Anybody had this happen - I have an older LC stack that works fine and in LC 9.5 I can edit the script of all the controls, but when I try to open the property inspector it will show the name of the object at the top of the inspector window but is says "no object selected" The only exception is for the stack itself, it will open for that. >>> Yep. Have seen that one. Pre-9.5 works ok. >> >> Same problem with the message box too. The label shows the stack name but the handlers can't be found. This goes back a ways but is more pronounced in 9.5. >> >> -- >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat Sep 21 19:19:43 2019 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2019 18:19:43 -0500 Subject: Android architectures Message-ID: <026e69bd-c6ca-fe9f-2d68-9b4e8c9ef918@hyperactivesw.com> When submitting to the Play Store, is it really necessary to build four apks? Or can we get away with just the ARM two? -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Sat Sep 21 23:20:33 2019 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2019 23:20:33 -0400 Subject: Android architectures In-Reply-To: <026e69bd-c6ca-fe9f-2d68-9b4e8c9ef918@hyperactivesw.com> References: <026e69bd-c6ca-fe9f-2d68-9b4e8c9ef918@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <004301d570f4$b506cab0$1f146010$@net> Long answer: Option 1 Build one big apk for all 4 architectures. Option 2 Build 4 apks (one for each architecture) you get these advantages over option 1: 1) The PlayStore will download the proper apk for the user's architecture thereby reducing the install/update time 2) You will target more devices because 1 large apk could exceed the max apk size for some devices. 3) x86 devices performance will be 5x to 10x faster. Option 3 Build 1 apk for both the arm and arm64 architectures to reduce the option 1 apk size. App will run slow on x86 devices because it will run in an arm emulator. You could also possibly exceed the apk size for some devices but not as many as option 1 Option 4 Build 2 apks one for each arm architecture to reduce the apk size and optimize the install time(as in option 2). App will run slow on x86 devices because it will run in an arm emulator. Option 5 Build 2 apks one for both arm architectures and one with both x86 architectures. X86 devices will run fast. You could also possibly exceed the apk size for some devices but not as many as option 1. Short answer: Yes. (option 4) I'm working on my Android build plug-in to do the 4 builds with one operation. You will only have to enter the signing crap once for all 4 builds. As soon as I get it done I will share it with the community. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of J. Landman Gay via use-livecode Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2019 7:20 PM To: LiveCode Mailing List Cc: J. Landman Gay Subject: Android architectures When submitting to the Play Store, is it really necessary to build four apks? Or can we get away with just the ARM two? -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From hh at hyperhh.de Sun Sep 22 06:48:14 2019 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2019 12:48:14 +0200 Subject: HTML5: MultiWindows and GoStackURL v155 Message-ID: This is my last HTML5-contribution for a while (I'm waiting for LC input to HTML5). This is now more javascript than intended. But the LC mouse coordinates computation has a bug (was reported by Bernd). You can now grab and resize all windows and reorder the layers of them (incl. the main window). Tooltips and Menus are done with one single field each because LC creates canvases for tooltips and menus which are not marked and relayering the stack windows becomes very hard that. You can moreover input directly (updated on keyup) from a simple HTML-textarea (which has full UTF-8 support) to a substack's field. In goStackURl get the loaded stacks Delete/Close/Resize buttons that can be dragged to other locs by rightClicking them. MultiWindows_v155: http://hyperhh.de/html5/MultiWindows-9.5.0X.html (EU) http://hh.on-rev.com/html5/MultiWindows-9.5.0X.html (US) GoStackURL_v155: http://hh.on-rev.com/html5/GoStackURL-9.5.0X.html (US) http://hyperhh.de/html5/GoStackURL-9.5.0X.html (EU) From jjs at krutt.org Sun Sep 22 07:07:13 2019 From: jjs at krutt.org (JJS) Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2019 13:07:13 +0200 Subject: Android architectures In-Reply-To: <004301d570f4$b506cab0$1f146010$@net> References: <026e69bd-c6ca-fe9f-2d68-9b4e8c9ef918@hyperactivesw.com> <004301d570f4$b506cab0$1f146010$@net> Message-ID: <7aba5072-b638-cb27-141d-40a84920a344@krutt.org> That seems a welcome plugin. I do create 4 different apk's with all increasing version nr's. As this https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22118 seems hibernated. I made the request on suggestion of Mark Waddingham, as i suggested a check box feature to be able to choose a big single apk for the selected architecture or separate builds. What's the meaning of hibernated on the quality site? (note: that if you do not use Google's signing/optimize build or whatever it is called, that in the store there is an extra text that this app might not be optimized for your device. Even with 4 separate builds) Doei, Jerry Op 22-9-2019 om 05:20 schreef Ralph DiMola via use-livecode: > Long answer: > > Option 1 > Build one big apk for all 4 architectures. > > Option 2 > Build 4 apks (one for each architecture) you get these advantages over > option 1: > 1) The PlayStore will download the proper apk for the user's architecture > thereby reducing the install/update time > 2) You will target more devices because 1 large apk could exceed the max apk > size for some devices. > 3) x86 devices performance will be 5x to 10x faster. > > Option 3 > Build 1 apk for both the arm and arm64 architectures to reduce the option 1 > apk size. App will run slow on x86 devices because it will run in an arm > emulator. You could also possibly exceed the apk size for some devices but > not as many as option 1 > > Option 4 > Build 2 apks one for each arm architecture to reduce the apk size and > optimize the install time(as in option 2). App will run slow on x86 devices > because it will run in an arm emulator. > > Option 5 > Build 2 apks one for both arm architectures and one with both x86 > architectures. X86 devices will run fast. You could also possibly exceed the > apk size for some devices but not as many as option 1. > > Short answer: > Yes. (option 4) > > I'm working on my Android build plug-in to do the 4 builds with one > operation. You will only have to enter the signing crap once for all 4 > builds. As soon as I get it done I will share it with the community. > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf > Of J. Landman Gay via use-livecode > Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2019 7:20 PM > To: LiveCode Mailing List > Cc: J. Landman Gay > Subject: Android architectures > > When submitting to the Play Store, is it really necessary to build four > apks? Or can we get away with just the ARM two? > From dsc at swcp.com Sun Sep 22 11:26:22 2019 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott Consulting) Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2019 09:26:22 -0600 Subject: Android architectures In-Reply-To: <7aba5072-b638-cb27-141d-40a84920a344@krutt.org> References: <026e69bd-c6ca-fe9f-2d68-9b4e8c9ef918@hyperactivesw.com> <004301d570f4$b506cab0$1f146010$@net> <7aba5072-b638-cb27-141d-40a84920a344@krutt.org> Message-ID: <30F0F6A2-7592-440B-A57C-3DA6E3C3E0E1@swcp.com> friended > On Sep 22, 2019, at 5:07 AM, JJS via use-livecode wrote: > > What's the meaning of hibernated on the quality site? From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sun Sep 22 14:51:36 2019 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2019 13:51:36 -0500 Subject: Android architectures In-Reply-To: <004301d570f4$b506cab0$1f146010$@net> References: <026e69bd-c6ca-fe9f-2d68-9b4e8c9ef918@hyperactivesw.com> <004301d570f4$b506cab0$1f146010$@net> Message-ID: Thanks Ralph. I'm really looking forward to your utility because it looks like I'm going to need to build 4 apks. I phrased my question wrong, what I actually meant was "is it worth it to build for x86?" I did some poking around and found that x86 devices (both 32 and 64 bit) comprise about 1% of the market, as of 2 years ago. Since Intel stopped supporting the chip it's probably less than that now, except for one thing: Chromebooks. If you don't care about Chromebooks, it seems a bit of a waste to bother with the x86 builds, which will still run with an ARM build but slower. However in my case, I do need to support Chromebooks, many of which use an x86-something processor. So I guess I'll need to support all four. I kind of like your option 4, but I guess uploading four times instead of two isn't that big a deal anyway. On 9/21/19 10:20 PM, Ralph DiMola wrote: > Long answer: > > Option 1 > Build one big apk for all 4 architectures. > > Option 2 > Build 4 apks (one for each architecture) you get these advantages over > option 1: > 1) The PlayStore will download the proper apk for the user's architecture > thereby reducing the install/update time > 2) You will target more devices because 1 large apk could exceed the max apk > size for some devices. > 3) x86 devices performance will be 5x to 10x faster. > > Option 3 > Build 1 apk for both the arm and arm64 architectures to reduce the option 1 > apk size. App will run slow on x86 devices because it will run in an arm > emulator. You could also possibly exceed the apk size for some devices but > not as many as option 1 > > Option 4 > Build 2 apks one for each arm architecture to reduce the apk size and > optimize the install time(as in option 2). App will run slow on x86 devices > because it will run in an arm emulator. > > Option 5 > Build 2 apks one for both arm architectures and one with both x86 > architectures. X86 devices will run fast. You could also possibly exceed the > apk size for some devices but not as many as option 1. > > Short answer: > Yes. (option 4) > > I'm working on my Android build plug-in to do the 4 builds with one > operation. You will only have to enter the signing crap once for all 4 > builds. As soon as I get it done I will share it with the community. > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf > Of J. Landman Gay via use-livecode > Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2019 7:20 PM > To: LiveCode Mailing List > Cc: J. Landman Gay > Subject: Android architectures > > When submitting to the Play Store, is it really necessary to build four > apks? Or can we get away with just the ARM two? > -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sun Sep 22 14:53:25 2019 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2019 13:53:25 -0500 Subject: Android architectures In-Reply-To: <7aba5072-b638-cb27-141d-40a84920a344@krutt.org> References: <026e69bd-c6ca-fe9f-2d68-9b4e8c9ef918@hyperactivesw.com> <004301d570f4$b506cab0$1f146010$@net> <7aba5072-b638-cb27-141d-40a84920a344@krutt.org> Message-ID: <7046c14d-5b0f-439a-2365-2a745ae8325a@hyperactivesw.com> On 9/22/19 6:07 AM, JJS via use-livecode wrote: > What's the meaning of hibernated on the quality site? Basically, sleeping and not active at this moment, but may be awakened later. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jjs at krutt.org Sun Sep 22 16:18:01 2019 From: jjs at krutt.org (JJS) Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2019 22:18:01 +0200 Subject: Android architectures In-Reply-To: <30F0F6A2-7592-440B-A57C-3DA6E3C3E0E1@swcp.com> References: <026e69bd-c6ca-fe9f-2d68-9b4e8c9ef918@hyperactivesw.com> <004301d570f4$b506cab0$1f146010$@net> <7aba5072-b638-cb27-141d-40a84920a344@krutt.org> <30F0F6A2-7592-440B-A57C-3DA6E3C3E0E1@swcp.com> Message-ID: <652c5d80-0afb-144c-18c6-3791761f8813@krutt.org> :) Op 22-9-2019 om 17:26 schreef Dar Scott Consulting via use-livecode: > friended > >> On Sep 22, 2019, at 5:07 AM, JJS via use-livecode wrote: >> >> What's the meaning of hibernated on the quality site? > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jjs at krutt.org Sun Sep 22 16:20:07 2019 From: jjs at krutt.org (JJS) Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2019 22:20:07 +0200 Subject: Android architectures In-Reply-To: References: <026e69bd-c6ca-fe9f-2d68-9b4e8c9ef918@hyperactivesw.com> <004301d570f4$b506cab0$1f146010$@net> Message-ID: Thanks for the insight on this with the links provided Thought it was hype to use x86, but Intel dropped it so. I hope the emulator for ARM64 will speed up somehow then Op 22-9-2019 om 20:51 schreef J. Landman Gay via use-livecode: > Thanks Ralph. I'm really looking forward to your utility because it > looks like I'm going to need to build 4 apks. I phrased my question > wrong, what I actually meant was "is it worth it to build for x86?" > > I did some poking around and found that x86 devices (both 32 and 64 > bit) comprise about 1% of the market, as of 2 years ago. Since Intel > stopped supporting the chip it's probably less than that now, except > for one thing: Chromebooks. > > > > > > > If you don't care about Chromebooks, it seems a bit of a waste to > bother with the x86 builds, which will still run with an ARM build but > slower. However in my case, I do need to support Chromebooks, many of > which use an x86-something processor. So I guess I'll need to support > all four. > > I kind of like your option 4, but I guess uploading four times instead > of two isn't that big a deal anyway. > > > On 9/21/19 10:20 PM, Ralph DiMola wrote: >> Long answer: >> >> Option 1 >> Build one big apk for all 4 architectures. >> >> Option 2 >> Build 4 apks (one for each architecture) you get these advantages over >> option 1: >> 1) The PlayStore will download the proper apk for the user's >> architecture >> thereby reducing the install/update time >> 2) You will target more devices because 1 large apk could exceed the >> max apk >> size for some devices. >> 3) x86 devices performance will be 5x to 10x faster. >> >> Option 3 >> Build 1 apk for both the arm and arm64 architectures to reduce the >> option 1 >> apk size. App will run slow on x86 devices because it will run in an arm >> emulator. You could also possibly exceed the apk size for some >> devices but >> not as many as option 1 >> >> Option 4 >> Build 2 apks one for each arm architecture to reduce the apk size and >> optimize the install time(as in option 2). App will run slow on x86 >> devices >> because it will run in an arm emulator. >> >> Option 5 >> Build 2 apks one for both arm architectures and one with both x86 >> architectures. X86 devices will run fast. You could also possibly >> exceed the >> apk size for some devices but not as many as option 1. >> ? Short answer: >> Yes. (option 4) >> >> I'm working on my Android build plug-in to do the 4 builds with one >> operation. You will only have to enter the signing crap once for all 4 >> builds. As soon as I get it done I will share it with the community. >> >> Ralph DiMola >> IT Director >> Evergreen Information Services >> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On >> Behalf >> Of J. Landman Gay via use-livecode >> Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2019 7:20 PM >> To: LiveCode Mailing List >> Cc: J. Landman Gay >> Subject: Android architectures >> >> When submitting to the Play Store, is it really necessary to build four >> apks? Or can we get away with just the ARM two? >> > > From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sun Sep 22 16:21:39 2019 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2019 15:21:39 -0500 Subject: ShowAll on Android 10 Message-ID: <6069117b-ef91-94d1-fa9d-0511bfbcba30@hyperactivesw.com> Does anyone have a Pixel with Android 10 yet? I just got updated and showAll is cutting off the bottom of the card by about 24 pixels. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jjs at krutt.org Sun Sep 22 16:29:57 2019 From: jjs at krutt.org (JJS) Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2019 22:29:57 +0200 Subject: Fwd: Re: Print to PDF on Android? In-Reply-To: <3c57921d-f8b8-3607-982d-4f29e8c4ffb4@krutt.org> References: <3c57921d-f8b8-3607-982d-4f29e8c4ffb4@krutt.org> Message-ID: <7ccd60b1-9e54-cf17-5ceb-8aa43290114a@krutt.org> (strange this message vanished somehow)--repost I know it is unprofessional, and your are right about it. (the similair i do with a help file which is downloaded so it's always the latest version and it opens also in the browser or pdf reader, when i exit i'm back in the app) But in none of previous similair messages i've seen any reaction of the mothership about this, while it is available on iOs. So there is not? whole lot of interest in it probably. I don't know if it can be done with LCB and or adding permission (inject) into the manifest. ---------- But there are more topics that could use action for mobile: Brushes which don't get loaded, FCM pushnotifications not up to date lacking possibilities, just one line of text. So until that, one must either stall development or choose a workaround or start using Android Studio(which is totally free) But some people need a lot of time, like me to learn Kotlin/Java. Op 20-9-2019 om 23:06 schreef Dan Friedman: > While you may see this as a workaround, it is not. Having to leave your application to produce the PDF is absolutely unacceptable and unprofessional. It's also dangerous to even talk about. I fear the fine folks at LiveCode will say, "Great! They have a workaround. Looks like we don't have to deal with this at all!". LiveCode, this is a pretty big hole in the functionality of LC. I do hope you will address this issue ??and soon! > > -Dan > > > ?On 9/20/19, 1:54 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of JJS via use-livecode" use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > Nice. > > Save a simple text as html and then launch it opens the browser. > > *launch URL ("file:" & specialFolderPath("documents") & "order.html")* > > It seems Chrome can print to pdf after all, press share and print, then > you can choose. > > So next i want to add an image. > > And therefore i will export the image to a jpg or whatever file, then > save the text written as html markup language instead of plain text, and > add the image url as reference. > > see if that works also. > > > Doei, > > Jerry > > Op 20-9-2019 om 16:08 schreef JJS via use-livecode: > > A workaround could be (for text) (for photos or mixed with text i > > don't know for sure) > > > > save text as a text file > > > > launch the text file in a browser (we can laung a url or browser so > > also probably the url of the file where it is stored) > > > > then in the browser press the 3 dots in the right upper corner > > > > then press SHARE and you can print it. > > > > > > If you have Opera browser installed, then there is an option to save > > the page as a PDF and you can also print > > > > In FireFox you have to press PAGE and then you can choose save as PDF > > or PRINT > > > > in Chrome i see no option to save as PDF. > > > > Maybe you can save the whole as an html file with text and photos, > > then launch a browser, then save as pdf or print it. > > > > > > I'm gonna try someting, for me it's just text to print with this project. > > > > One advantage of Opera is it has standard unlimited VPN. > > > > > > Doei, > > > > Jerry > > > > > > Op 20-9-2019 om 05:46 schreef scott--- via use-livecode: > >> Hello Dan, > >> > >> Hello Dan, > >> > >> For Android PDF creation I use Jan Schenkel?s Quartum PDF Library. > >> It isn?t an ideal (or even possible) > >> solution in many cases because it doesn?t support unicode but in my > >> case that wasn?t a deal breaker. > >> > >> -- > >> Scott Morrow > >> > >> Elementary Software > >> (Now with 20% less chalk dust!) > >> webhttps://elementarysoftware.com/ > >> emailscott at elementarysoftware.com > >> booth 1-800-615-0867 > >> ------------------------------------------------------ > >> > >> > >>> On Sep 19, 2019, at 9:47 AM, Dan Friedman via use-livecode > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>> Come on LiveCode!! We really can't generate one of the most popular > >>> file formats on the most popular mobile platform? This is a joke! > >>> This is a MAJOR issue for me and I am sure others. This pretty much > >>> kills my project. Damn. > >>> > >>> -Dan > >>> > >>> > >>> On 9/19/19, 9:41 AM, "use-livecode on behalf of Klaus major-k via > >>> use-livecode">> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >>> > >>> Hi Dan, > >>> > >>>> Am 19.09.2019 um 18:39 schrieb Dan Friedman via use-livecode > >>>>: > >>>> > >>>> I can't seem to find a way to generate a PDF on Android. Is this > >>>> really not possible? > >>> no, unfortunately still not supported by LC. > >>> > >>>> Thanks! > >>>> -Dan > >>> Best > >>> > >>> Klaus > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Klaus Major > >>>https://www.major-k.de > >>>klaus at major-k.de > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> use-livecode mailing list > >>>use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >>> subscription preferences: > >>>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >>use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > From jjs at krutt.org Sun Sep 22 16:33:16 2019 From: jjs at krutt.org (JJS) Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2019 22:33:16 +0200 Subject: Fwd: Re: Print to PDF on Android? In-Reply-To: <7ccd60b1-9e54-cf17-5ceb-8aa43290114a@krutt.org> References: <3c57921d-f8b8-3607-982d-4f29e8c4ffb4@krutt.org> <7ccd60b1-9e54-cf17-5ceb-8aa43290114a@krutt.org> Message-ID: <40fa9c0e-44eb-2105-6d9b-00975e32345c@krutt.org> So creating html and text was not difficult. The problem was in opening a local image from html, after saving an image first to local storage. But i found a way for it now and it's working. Still i'd like to see this be directly possible from within the app. Op 22-9-2019 om 22:29 schreef JJS via use-livecode: > > (strange this message vanished somehow)--repost > > I know it is unprofessional, and your are right about it. > > (the similair i do with a help file which is downloaded so it's always > the latest version and it opens also in the browser or pdf reader, > when i exit i'm back in the app) > > But in none of previous similair messages i've seen any reaction of > the mothership about this, while it is available on iOs. > > So there is not? whole lot of interest in it probably. > > I don't know if it can be done with LCB and or adding permission > (inject) into the manifest. > > ---------- > > But there are more topics that could use action for mobile: Brushes > which don't get loaded, FCM pushnotifications not up to date lacking > possibilities, just one line of text. > > So until that, one must either stall development or choose a > workaround or start using Android Studio(which is totally free) But > some people need a lot of time, like me to learn Kotlin/Java. > > > Op 20-9-2019 om 23:06 schreef Dan Friedman: >> While you may see this as a workaround, it is not.?? Having to leave >> your application to produce the PDF is absolutely unacceptable and >> unprofessional.? It's also dangerous to even talk about.? I fear the >> fine folks at LiveCode will say, "Great!? They have a workaround.? >> Looks like we don't have to deal with this at all!".? LiveCode, this >> is a pretty big hole in the functionality of LC.? I do hope you will >> address this issue ??and soon! >> >> -Dan >> >> >> ?On 9/20/19, 1:54 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of JJS via >> use-livecode"> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com>? wrote: >> >> ???? Nice. >> ???? ???? Save a simple text as html and then launch it opens the >> browser. >> ???? ???? *launch URL ("file:" & specialFolderPath("documents") & >> "order.html")* >> ???? ???? It seems Chrome can print to pdf after all, press share and >> print, then >> ???? you can choose. >> ???? ???? So next i want to add an image. >> ???? ???? And therefore i will export the image to a jpg or whatever >> file, then >> ???? save the text written as html markup language instead of plain >> text, and >> ???? add the image url as reference. >> ???? ???? see if that works also. >> ???? ???? ???? Doei, >> ???? ???? Jerry >> ???? ???? Op 20-9-2019 om 16:08 schreef JJS via use-livecode: >> ???? > A workaround could be (for text) (for photos or mixed with text i >> ???? > don't know for sure) >> ???? > >> ???? > save text as a text file >> ???? > >> ???? > launch the text file in a browser (we can laung a url or >> browser so >> ???? > also probably the url of the file where it is stored) >> ???? > >> ???? > then in the browser press the 3 dots in the right upper corner >> ???? > >> ???? > then press SHARE and you can print it. >> ???? > >> ???? > >> ???? > If you have Opera browser installed, then there is an option >> to save >> ???? > the page as a PDF and you can also print >> ???? > >> ???? > In FireFox you have to press PAGE and then you can choose save >> as PDF >> ???? > or PRINT >> ???? > >> ???? > in Chrome i see no option to save as PDF. >> ???? > >> ???? > Maybe you can save the whole as an html file with text and >> photos, >> ???? > then launch a browser, then save as pdf or print it. >> ???? > >> ???? > >> ???? > I'm gonna try someting, for me it's just text to print with >> this project. >> ???? > >> ???? > One advantage of Opera is it has standard unlimited VPN. >> ???? > >> ???? > >> ???? > Doei, >> ???? > >> ???? > Jerry >> ???? > >> ???? > >> ???? > Op 20-9-2019 om 05:46 schreef scott--- via use-livecode: >> ???? >> Hello Dan, >> ???? >> >> ???? >> Hello Dan, >> ???? >> >> ???? >> For Android PDF creation I use Jan Schenkel?s Quartum PDF >> Library. >> ???? >>?? It isn?t an ideal (or even possible) >> ???? >> solution in many cases because it doesn?t support unicode but >> in my >> ???? >> case that wasn?t a deal breaker. >> ???? >> >> ???? >> -- >> ???? >> Scott Morrow >> ???? >> >> ???? >> Elementary Software >> ???? >> (Now with 20% less chalk dust!) >> ???? >> webhttps://elementarysoftware.com/ >> ???? >> emailscott at elementarysoftware.com >> ???? >> booth??? 1-800-615-0867 >> ???? >> ------------------------------------------------------ >> ???? >> >> ???? >> >> ???? >>> On Sep 19, 2019, at 9:47 AM, Dan Friedman via use-livecode >> ???? >>>? wrote: >> ???? >>> >> ???? >>> Come on LiveCode!!? We really can't generate one of the most >> popular >> ???? >>> file formats on the most popular mobile platform? This is a >> joke! >> ???? >>> This is a MAJOR issue for me and I am sure others.? This >> pretty much >> ???? >>> kills my project.? Damn. >> ???? >>> >> ???? >>> -Dan >> ???? >>> >> ???? >>> >> ???? >>> On 9/19/19, 9:41 AM, "use-livecode on behalf of Klaus >> major-k via >> ???? >>> use-livecode"> behalf of >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> ???? >>> >> ???? >>>???? Hi Dan, >> ???? >>> >> ???? >>>> Am 19.09.2019 um 18:39 schrieb Dan Friedman via use-livecode >> ???? >>>>: >> ???? >>>> >> ???? >>>> I can't seem to find a way to generate a PDF on Android.? >> Is this >> ???? >>>> really not possible? >> ???? >>>???? no, unfortunately still not supported by LC. >> ???? >>> >> ???? >>>> Thanks! >> ???? >>>> -Dan >> ???? >>>???? Best >> ???? >>> >> ???? >>>???? Klaus >> ???? >>> >> ???? >>>???? -- >> ???? >>>???? Klaus Major >> ???? >>>https://www.major-k.de >> ???? >>>klaus at major-k.de >> ???? >>> >> ???? >>> >> ???? >>> _______________________________________________ >> ???? >>>???? use-livecode mailing list >> ???? >>>use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> ???? >>>???? Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and >> manage your >> ???? >>> subscription preferences: >> >>>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> ???? >> >> ???? >> _______________________________________________ >> ???? >> use-livecode mailing list >> ???? >>use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> ???? >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> ???? >> subscription preferences: >> >>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> ???? > >> ???? > _______________________________________________ >> ???? > use-livecode mailing list >> ???? >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> ???? > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> ???? > subscription preferences: >> ???? >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> ???? ???? _______________________________________________ >> ???? use-livecode mailing list >> ???? use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> ???? Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> ???? http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au Mon Sep 23 05:46:18 2019 From: terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd) Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2019 09:46:18 +0000 Subject: LC apps on iOS 13? Message-ID: <4D98F004-DBF5-4507-A339-0B31AF7EFA08@unimelb.edu.au> I was assuming that LC apps would continue to run OK on iOS 13 but I've already received a report from a user with some pretty interesting error screens attached. I recall we had some problems when iOS 12 came out because we are using an enterprise developer license to distribute outside of the app store - from memory the fix was to regenerate the app profile before building a new version of the app. This time around however the user is getting messages along the lines of "This app is currently not available in your country or region" and "You must purchase this app to install it" even though it is not and has never been distributed through the app store. Weird. Any ideas? Terry... From terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au Mon Sep 23 05:56:59 2019 From: terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd) Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2019 09:56:59 +0000 Subject: LC apps on iOS 13? In-Reply-To: <4D98F004-DBF5-4507-A339-0B31AF7EFA08@unimelb.edu.au> References: <4D98F004-DBF5-4507-A339-0B31AF7EFA08@unimelb.edu.au> Message-ID: <5C25B008-B1C3-4014-8452-B03DE1235CB1@unimelb.edu.au> That should have read 'hoping' rather than 'assuming' I think ;) ?On 23/9/19, 7:47 pm, "use-livecode on behalf of Terry Judd via use-livecode" wrote: I was assuming that LC apps would continue to run OK on iOS 13 but I've already received a report from a user with some pretty interesting error screens attached. I recall we had some problems when iOS 12 came out because we are using an enterprise developer license to distribute outside of the app store - from memory the fix was to regenerate the app profile before building a new version of the app. This time around however the user is getting messages along the lines of "This app is currently not available in your country or region" and "You must purchase this app to install it" even though it is not and has never been distributed through the app store. Weird. Any ideas? Terry... _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From merakosp at gmail.com Mon Sep 23 06:16:43 2019 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2019 13:16:43 +0300 Subject: LC apps on iOS 13? In-Reply-To: <4D98F004-DBF5-4507-A339-0B31AF7EFA08@unimelb.edu.au> References: <4D98F004-DBF5-4507-A339-0B31AF7EFA08@unimelb.edu.au> Message-ID: Hello Terry, I have an iPad running iPadOS 13 and both existing and new LC apps run without any issues. However, note I use either a regular development provisioning profile, or an Ad-hoc distribution provisioning profile. If you could file a bug report with the exact errors your customer gets, we will have a look. Kind regards, Panos -- On Mon, 23 Sep 2019 at 12:47, Terry Judd via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I was assuming that LC apps would continue to run OK on iOS 13 but I've > already received a report from a user with some pretty interesting error > screens attached. > > I recall we had some problems when iOS 12 came out because we are using an > enterprise developer license to distribute outside of the app store - from > memory the fix was to regenerate the app profile before building a new > version of the app. This time around however the user is getting messages > along the lines of "This app is currently not available in your country or > region" and "You must purchase this app to install it" even though it is > not and has never been distributed through the app store. Weird. > > Any ideas? > > Terry... > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From panos.merakos at livecode.com Mon Sep 23 11:52:28 2019 From: panos.merakos at livecode.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2019 18:52:28 +0300 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 195 Message-ID: Hi all, Read about new developments in LiveCode open source and the open source community in today's edition of the "This Week in LiveCode" newsletter! Read issue #195 here: http://bit.ly/2mzPN2j This is a weekly newsletter about LiveCode, focussing on what's been going on in and around the open source project. New issues will be released weekly on Mondays. We have a dedicated mailing list that will deliver each issue directly to you e-mail, so you don't miss any! If you have anything you'd like mentioned (a project, a discussion somewhere, an upcoming event) then please get in touch. -- Panagiotis Merakos LiveCode Software Developer Everyone Can Create Apps From tom at makeshyft.com Tue Sep 24 13:19:36 2019 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2019 13:19:36 -0400 Subject: Ideas for my book. In-Reply-To: <1C70F12C-9DBD-4DD0-B2AD-71BCCB3C057A@mac.com> References: <5f8e068d-ecd3-c08a-71f6-8968b9abe915@hyperactivesw.com> <1C70F12C-9DBD-4DD0-B2AD-71BCCB3C057A@mac.com> Message-ID: Patrick, someone wrote this on the FB Livecode Group...... just thought I'd drop it in here. "I am struggling to get from the basic stuff to a higher level. It seems that every book I find either talks about the very basics or its content goes clear over my head. Any advices?" On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 2:39 PM Graham Samuel via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Wise words from Jacque as always! Yes, who is the book intended for? If > people who have programmed already, then we have to ask, have they used > scripting languages? Are they old enough to remember Hypercard, etc? If > not, it?s all a bit of a tabula rasa, isn?t it? > > To answer on my own account (just my two battered Eurocents): > > I have always been attracted to the concept of ?natural-language-like? > which to me of course means ?English-like?. I started with Hypercard, then > SuperCard, then LiveCode in all its manifestations. In each case what > attracted me was in part the ?stack? model, which at least is easy to > understand, and in the particular case of LC I was (and am) exceedingly > keen on the multi-platform ideas at the heart of LC - but perhaps even > more, I was and am attracted by the simplicity of the ?look? of the > language, which leads to both compactness and readability. When it came to > actual coding, for several years I used to guess what the code would be and > then find from the dictionary that my guess was slightly, but not > drastically, wrong! That?s because natural languages are very rich and > provide a huge variety of ways to say the same thing. I found these > necessary corrections easy and very rapid to do, so I was content. Any book > would have to decide where to start from, and then lead the reader to this > type of insight, I think, so the reader would not be afraid to use the very > large scope of the LC language. Such a book would also have to include an > honest appraisal of what LC isn?t so good for, as perhaps others have > hinted. > > I have produced viable software products with LC, but what has happened to > me subsequently has been rather dispiriting, in two ways: > > 1. LC has decided to make itself more powerful by adding only > semi-compatible features, particularly LCB and the whole Widget idea. It is > a struggle to get to understand and actually use all this, and a book which > would help with that, using lots of examples and step-by-step instructions, > would be enormously helpful. > > 2. Everybody and her brother are being continually bogged down by > deployment issues - code signing, notarization, installer logic, submission > to stores, using payment services, working with frameworks which don?t > really recognise LC, you name it - it?s a freaking nightmare. Just getting > the program to do its thing is now perhaps less than 50 percent of the > effort to provide an actual deliverable. Any book that helps with that > (step-by-step etc) would be miraculously useful, but sadly it would need to > be updated several times per year. > > Obviously the above is just scratching the surface, but I hope it helps a > little. > > Graham > > > On 18 Sep 2019, at 00:29, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > I think the first question should be: what assumptions will the book > make? Will you assume familiarity with LC syntax and structure and plan to > expand on various subcategories (server, pi, multi-media, etc?) Or is it > aimed at beginners who have never programmed? Or maybe it's for experienced > developers who know other languages but want to learn what's different in > LC? > > > > That would narrow down the choices for the material you plan to present. > Who's the audience? > > > > On 9/17/19 2:40 PM, Patrick Roza via use-livecode wrote: > >> First, let me say many of you gave some great input. So let me follow > with > >> this. > >> I see an interest in: > >> Raspberry PI > >> LiveCode server > >> Did not see anything on widgets or plugins? > >> So here is are some questions for the group. > >> 1. When you were learning LiveCode what was the hardest to learn and > why? > >> 2. What do you think is the main advantage of LiveCode over other > >> programming languages? > >> 3. Do you think LiveCode is better than Python and why? > >> I am just curious and want everybody to give me great input to develop a > >> great book. > >> Thanks Patrick > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > -- > > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Tom Glod Founder & Developer MakeShyft R.D.A (www.makeshyft.com) Office:226-706-9339 Mobile:226-706-9793 From tom at makeshyft.com Tue Sep 24 14:36:40 2019 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2019 14:36:40 -0400 Subject: LC Garbage Collection? Message-ID: Hi folks, I'm wondering if anyone can help me to understand Livecode's garbage collection. I am developing an application that is intended to stay in memory and so I must watch memory consumption carefully. I've had some instances where memory ran way out of control.... but I found a couple of reasons for that...... one of them being the dozen or so memory leaks that were fixed in 9.05. When I build the standalone in 9.04 its a disaster. When I build with 9.05 I am very impressed with my application clearing its own memory..... even to the point where it consumes less than what it does when the standalone first starts up But it seems arbitrary. Where can I go to find out more details about the engine's GC? Thanks, Tom Glod Founder & Developer MakeShyft R.D.A (www.makeshyft.com) Office:226-706-9339 Mobile:226-706-9793 From hh at hyperhh.de Tue Sep 24 15:06:14 2019 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2019 21:06:14 +0200 Subject: LC Garbage Collection? Message-ID: LC 9.0.5 closed at about 42 memory leaks ... From dsc at swcp.com Tue Sep 24 15:39:36 2019 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott Consulting) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2019 13:39:36 -0600 Subject: LC Garbage Collection? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <707F72AF-84F4-4180-8B6E-6AD5825CB9A7@swcp.com> I don't know where you will find details. (Maybe if we keep this conversation going, we will get a response in a half day.) I believe it is reference-counting with lazy cleanup for high-level objects, but with carefully crafted destructors for low level objects. Because of the lazy cleanup, it is sometimes hard to see when memory problems occur or to infer GC behavior But, to me it doesn't matter. I like the memory management of LiveCode. It cleans up. It doesn't have astonishingly-long pauses that I remember. It would be nice to know that cleanup is not delayed forever, though, and for that I am not sure. I have only run into memory problems with some ML projects, so my experience might not shed much light. Sources of memory leaks are LC, LC scripts, OS, libraries, LCB and (I suppose) compilers. I don't think we can assume the problem is not in the user script. I have seen script memory leaks like these: 1. Leaving large data in script locals 2. Indefinite log variables 3. Poor range checking in recursive functions 4. mouseUp recursion* 5. Queue/stack bugs 6. Bad parsing *GUI recursion is a root of all kinds of evil. If tempted, leave your cloak and run. Dar Scott Mad Scientist > On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:36 PM, Tom Glod via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi folks, I'm wondering if anyone can help me to understand Livecode's > garbage collection. I am developing an application that is intended to > stay in memory and so I must watch memory consumption carefully. I've had > some instances where memory ran way out of control.... but I found a couple > of reasons for that...... one of them being the dozen or so memory leaks > that were fixed in 9.05. > > When I build the standalone in 9.04 its a disaster. When I build with 9.05 > I am very impressed with my application clearing its own memory..... even > to the point where it consumes less than what it does when the standalone > first starts up > > But it seems arbitrary. Where can I go to find out more details about the > engine's GC? > > Thanks, > > Tom Glod > Founder & Developer > MakeShyft R.D.A (www.makeshyft.com) > Office:226-706-9339 > Mobile:226-706-9793 > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From tom at makeshyft.com Tue Sep 24 16:43:47 2019 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2019 16:43:47 -0400 Subject: LC Garbage Collection? In-Reply-To: <707F72AF-84F4-4180-8B6E-6AD5825CB9A7@swcp.com> References: <707F72AF-84F4-4180-8B6E-6AD5825CB9A7@swcp.com> Message-ID: HH...yup I know...... Dar, thanks for those hints and tidbits, I'll be putting those right into my pocket as i optimize code going forward. I have pretty good cleanup habits, so I am getting good results with how it is (in 9.05) ..... but sometimes its scary. It like the GC happens only when things are idle and quiet....maybe there is a threshold. When you say GUI recursion....do you mean,,,,if i draw interfaces using functions that call themselves? On Tue, Sep 24, 2019 at 3:40 PM Dar Scott Consulting via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I don't know where you will find details. (Maybe if we keep this > conversation going, we will get a response in a half day.) > > I believe it is reference-counting with lazy cleanup for high-level > objects, but with carefully crafted destructors for low level objects. > Because of the lazy cleanup, it is sometimes hard to see when memory > problems occur or to infer GC behavior > > But, to me it doesn't matter. I like the memory management of LiveCode. It > cleans up. It doesn't have astonishingly-long pauses that I remember. It > would be nice to know that cleanup is not delayed forever, though, and for > that I am not sure. I have only run into memory problems with some ML > projects, so my experience might not shed much light. > > Sources of memory leaks are LC, LC scripts, OS, libraries, LCB and (I > suppose) compilers. I don't think we can assume the problem is not in the > user script. I have seen script memory leaks like these: > 1. Leaving large data in script locals > 2. Indefinite log variables > 3. Poor range checking in recursive functions > 4. mouseUp recursion* > 5. Queue/stack bugs > 6. Bad parsing > > *GUI recursion is a root of all kinds of evil. If tempted, leave your > cloak and run. > > Dar Scott > Mad Scientist > > > On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:36 PM, Tom Glod via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > Hi folks, I'm wondering if anyone can help me to understand Livecode's > > garbage collection. I am developing an application that is intended to > > stay in memory and so I must watch memory consumption carefully. I've had > > some instances where memory ran way out of control.... but I found a > couple > > of reasons for that...... one of them being the dozen or so memory leaks > > that were fixed in 9.05. > > > > When I build the standalone in 9.04 its a disaster. When I build with > 9.05 > > I am very impressed with my application clearing its own memory..... even > > to the point where it consumes less than what it does when the standalone > > first starts up > > > > But it seems arbitrary. Where can I go to find out more details about > the > > engine's GC? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Tom Glod > > Founder & Developer > > MakeShyft R.D.A (www.makeshyft.com) > > Office:226-706-9339 > > Mobile:226-706-9793 > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Tom Glod Founder & Developer MakeShyft R.D.A (www.makeshyft.com) Office:226-706-9339 Mobile:226-706-9793 From paul at researchware.com Tue Sep 24 18:40:25 2019 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2019 18:40:25 -0400 Subject: Another LC905rc1 function NOT Unicode aware Message-ID: <982dd5d0-2190-6c80-4599-a258dd20ab51@researchware.com> And 'open printing to PDF' is yet another part of LC905rc1 still not Unicode aware. https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22385 Filename/paths and PDF document property options can not be Unicode. From dsc at swcp.com Tue Sep 24 19:44:27 2019 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott Consulting) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2019 17:44:27 -0600 Subject: LC Garbage Collection? In-Reply-To: References: <707F72AF-84F4-4180-8B6E-6AD5825CB9A7@swcp.com> Message-ID: Yeah, "GUI recursion" is a little obtuse. I'm referring to a style of using wait with messages inside an event handler so that other events (especially keyboard and mouse) can be handled. Sometimes this is done to allow a "background" task. It is easy to do this in a way that makes a mess of things. One scenario is loading a large file at the start of a mouseUp and then use lots of wait with messages sprinkled throughout, but the task somehow gets started several times and memory usage is a problem. Of course one can be very careful and consider what problems might happen, so this is not a hard and fast admonition. The use of busy flags can help. I do this occasionally when experimenting with move, but I move away immediately. And I do like the idea of writing a "background" the way one thinks of it and sprinkling in some waits, but as soon as things expand (you want to do two things in the background), then this falls apart. I encourage embracing event programming. > On Sep 24, 2019, at 2:43 PM, Tom Glod via use-livecode wrote: > > HH...yup I know...... Dar, thanks for those hints and tidbits, I'll be > putting those right into my pocket as i optimize code going forward. > > I have pretty good cleanup habits, so I am getting good results with how > it is (in 9.05) ..... but sometimes its scary. It like the GC happens only > when things are idle and quiet....maybe there is a threshold. > > When you say GUI recursion....do you mean,,,,if i draw interfaces using > functions that call themselves? > > On Tue, Sep 24, 2019 at 3:40 PM Dar Scott Consulting via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> I don't know where you will find details. (Maybe if we keep this >> conversation going, we will get a response in a half day.) >> >> I believe it is reference-counting with lazy cleanup for high-level >> objects, but with carefully crafted destructors for low level objects. >> Because of the lazy cleanup, it is sometimes hard to see when memory >> problems occur or to infer GC behavior >> >> But, to me it doesn't matter. I like the memory management of LiveCode. It >> cleans up. It doesn't have astonishingly-long pauses that I remember. It >> would be nice to know that cleanup is not delayed forever, though, and for >> that I am not sure. I have only run into memory problems with some ML >> projects, so my experience might not shed much light. >> >> Sources of memory leaks are LC, LC scripts, OS, libraries, LCB and (I >> suppose) compilers. I don't think we can assume the problem is not in the >> user script. I have seen script memory leaks like these: >> 1. Leaving large data in script locals >> 2. Indefinite log variables >> 3. Poor range checking in recursive functions >> 4. mouseUp recursion* >> 5. Queue/stack bugs >> 6. Bad parsing >> >> *GUI recursion is a root of all kinds of evil. If tempted, leave your >> cloak and run. >> >> Dar Scott >> Mad Scientist >> >>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:36 PM, Tom Glod via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> >>> Hi folks, I'm wondering if anyone can help me to understand Livecode's >>> garbage collection. I am developing an application that is intended to >>> stay in memory and so I must watch memory consumption carefully. I've had >>> some instances where memory ran way out of control.... but I found a >> couple >>> of reasons for that...... one of them being the dozen or so memory leaks >>> that were fixed in 9.05. >>> >>> When I build the standalone in 9.04 its a disaster. When I build with >> 9.05 >>> I am very impressed with my application clearing its own memory..... even >>> to the point where it consumes less than what it does when the standalone >>> first starts up >>> >>> But it seems arbitrary. Where can I go to find out more details about >> the >>> engine's GC? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Tom Glod >>> Founder & Developer >>> MakeShyft R.D.A (www.makeshyft.com) >>> Office:226-706-9339 >>> Mobile:226-706-9793 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > -- > Tom Glod > Founder & Developer > MakeShyft R.D.A (www.makeshyft.com) > Office:226-706-9339 > Mobile:226-706-9793 > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From tom at makeshyft.com Tue Sep 24 20:19:17 2019 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2019 20:19:17 -0400 Subject: LC Garbage Collection? In-Reply-To: References: <707F72AF-84F4-4180-8B6E-6AD5825CB9A7@swcp.com> Message-ID: Dar, you bring up some good points here thanks. i've been burned by that before. I do want to mention that I reported a bug a while back where not all messages were sent while wait with messages. panos seemed to have confirmed that problem, but it hasn't moved since. Maybe that part of the problem you experiences in your tests? https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=21835 On Tue, Sep 24, 2019 at 7:45 PM Dar Scott Consulting via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Yeah, "GUI recursion" is a little obtuse. > > I'm referring to a style of using wait with messages inside an event > handler so that other events (especially keyboard and mouse) can be > handled. Sometimes this is done to allow a "background" task. It is easy to > do this in a way that makes a mess of things. One scenario is loading a > large file at the start of a mouseUp and then use lots of wait with > messages sprinkled throughout, but the task somehow gets started several > times and memory usage is a problem. > > Of course one can be very careful and consider what problems might happen, > so this is not a hard and fast admonition. The use of busy flags can help. > > I do this occasionally when experimenting with move, but I move away > immediately. > > And I do like the idea of writing a "background" the way one thinks of it > and sprinkling in some waits, but as soon as things expand (you want to do > two things in the background), then this falls apart. > > I encourage embracing event programming. > > > On Sep 24, 2019, at 2:43 PM, Tom Glod via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > HH...yup I know...... Dar, thanks for those hints and tidbits, I'll be > > putting those right into my pocket as i optimize code going forward. > > > > I have pretty good cleanup habits, so I am getting good results with how > > it is (in 9.05) ..... but sometimes its scary. It like the GC happens > only > > when things are idle and quiet....maybe there is a threshold. > > > > When you say GUI recursion....do you mean,,,,if i draw interfaces using > > functions that call themselves? > > > > On Tue, Sep 24, 2019 at 3:40 PM Dar Scott Consulting via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > >> I don't know where you will find details. (Maybe if we keep this > >> conversation going, we will get a response in a half day.) > >> > >> I believe it is reference-counting with lazy cleanup for high-level > >> objects, but with carefully crafted destructors for low level objects. > >> Because of the lazy cleanup, it is sometimes hard to see when memory > >> problems occur or to infer GC behavior > >> > >> But, to me it doesn't matter. I like the memory management of LiveCode. > It > >> cleans up. It doesn't have astonishingly-long pauses that I remember. It > >> would be nice to know that cleanup is not delayed forever, though, and > for > >> that I am not sure. I have only run into memory problems with some ML > >> projects, so my experience might not shed much light. > >> > >> Sources of memory leaks are LC, LC scripts, OS, libraries, LCB and (I > >> suppose) compilers. I don't think we can assume the problem is not in > the > >> user script. I have seen script memory leaks like these: > >> 1. Leaving large data in script locals > >> 2. Indefinite log variables > >> 3. Poor range checking in recursive functions > >> 4. mouseUp recursion* > >> 5. Queue/stack bugs > >> 6. Bad parsing > >> > >> *GUI recursion is a root of all kinds of evil. If tempted, leave your > >> cloak and run. > >> > >> Dar Scott > >> Mad Scientist > >> > >>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:36 PM, Tom Glod via use-livecode < > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >>> > >>> Hi folks, I'm wondering if anyone can help me to understand Livecode's > >>> garbage collection. I am developing an application that is intended to > >>> stay in memory and so I must watch memory consumption carefully. I've > had > >>> some instances where memory ran way out of control.... but I found a > >> couple > >>> of reasons for that...... one of them being the dozen or so memory > leaks > >>> that were fixed in 9.05. > >>> > >>> When I build the standalone in 9.04 its a disaster. When I build with > >> 9.05 > >>> I am very impressed with my application clearing its own memory..... > even > >>> to the point where it consumes less than what it does when the > standalone > >>> first starts up > >>> > >>> But it seems arbitrary. Where can I go to find out more details about > >> the > >>> engine's GC? > >>> > >>> Thanks, > >>> > >>> Tom Glod > >>> Founder & Developer > >>> MakeShyft R.D.A (www.makeshyft.com) > >>> Office:226-706-9339 > >>> Mobile:226-706-9793 > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> use-livecode mailing list > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > > > > > > -- > > Tom Glod > > Founder & Developer > > MakeShyft R.D.A (www.makeshyft.com) > > Office:226-706-9339 > > Mobile:226-706-9793 > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Tom Glod Founder & Developer MakeShyft R.D.A (www.makeshyft.com) Office:226-706-9339 Mobile:226-706-9793 From patrick.roza at gmail.com Wed Sep 25 09:19:00 2019 From: patrick.roza at gmail.com (Patrick Roza) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2019 09:19:00 -0400 Subject: Stacks and Sub Stacks Message-ID: Looking for some good examples of the Main stack used with sub stacks. Looking for best practices on usage. Also using text-only stacks. Thanks, Patrick From dunbarx at aol.com Wed Sep 25 09:54:45 2019 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx at aol.com) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2019 13:54:45 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Stacks and Sub Stacks In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1472164549.8533974.1569419685020@mail.yahoo.com> Hi. You probably mean script-only stacks. Substacks are just stacks, but they live in the same file as the mainStack. It helps with organization, and when you save one, you save them all. You can only have one mainStack, but as many subStacks as you like. For me, I have projects that use substacks for, say, data entry. The subStack is built just for that purpose. When making a standalone, substacks are included in the final package. Just practice a bit.? Craig -----Original Message----- From: Patrick Roza via use-livecode To: use-livecode Cc: Patrick Roza Sent: Wed, Sep 25, 2019 9:18 am Subject: Stacks and Sub Stacks Looking for some good examples of the Main stack used with sub stacks. Looking for best practices on usage. Also using text-only stacks. Thanks, Patrick _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From brahma at hindu.org Wed Sep 25 10:43:10 2019 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2019 14:43:10 +0000 Subject: Stacks and Sub Stacks In-Reply-To: <1472164549.8533974.1569419685020@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1472164549.8533974.1569419685020@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <64A03C4F-B587-4560-A55C-EA00AC6FCBDE@hindu.org> Related: if you have this in the message box. put the openstacks you only get the 1. presently open binary stacks 2. any script only stack that you explicitly have open in the IDE But, can you we a list of all stacks available to the message path "right now" We can query the stack files, but they are included with stack, but not necessarily open. Another say to put this is when doing a start using "MyControls.livecodescript" ?later on, how do you query for all stacks "open" by "start using" BR Hi. You probably mean script-only stacks. Substacks are just stacks, but they live in the same file as the mainStack. It helps with organization, and when you save one, you save them all. You can only have one mainStack, but as many subStacks as you like. For me, I have projects that use substacks for, say, data entry. The subStack is built just for that purpose. When making a standalone, substacks are included in the final package. Just practice a bit. Craig From brahma at hindu.org Wed Sep 25 10:48:37 2019 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2019 14:48:37 +0000 Subject: Get Definition Message-ID: <50B8E216-B890-4FF6-A5D9-2EB7D2D0FB70@hindu.org> We have a command command Journal_LaunchEntry pEntryID in the message path, via a start using "model_Journal.livecodescript" But click on the command script editor "Get definition" is dimmed. Is this a "bug"? I can you find a search to find it, but that seems"lame" BR From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Sep 25 11:57:40 2019 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2019 10:57:40 -0500 Subject: Stacks and Sub Stacks In-Reply-To: <64A03C4F-B587-4560-A55C-EA00AC6FCBDE@hindu.org> References: <1472164549.8533974.1569419685020@mail.yahoo.com> <64A03C4F-B587-4560-A55C-EA00AC6FCBDE@hindu.org> Message-ID: <16d69247520.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> There's "the stacksInUse" for those. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On September 25, 2019 9:45:22 AM Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode wrote: > Related: > > > if you have this in the message box. > > > put the openstacks > > > you only get the > > > 1. presently open binary stacks > 2. any script only stack that you explicitly have open in the IDE > > > But, can you we a list of all stacks available to the message path "right now" > > > We can query the stack files, but they are included with stack, but not > necessarily open. > > > Another say to put this is when doing a > > > start using "MyControls.livecodescript" > > > ?later on, how do you query for all stacks "open" by "start using" > > > BR > > > Hi. > You probably mean script-only stacks. > Substacks are just stacks, but they live in the same file as the mainStack. > It helps with organization, and when you save one, you save them all. You > can only have one mainStack, but as many subStacks as you like. > For me, I have projects that use substacks for, say, data entry. The > subStack is built just for that purpose. > When making a standalone, substacks are included in the final package. > Just practice a bit. > Craig > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From tfabacher at gmail.com Wed Sep 25 12:28:12 2019 From: tfabacher at gmail.com (Todd Fabacher) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2019 12:28:12 -0400 Subject: In-App Purchase Subscription Message-ID: Hello LiveCode community, Does anyone have a sample of selling a subscription using LiveCode's In-App Purchase functionality? We are looking to sell an app with a monthly fee. I have it set up in Apple correct, but getting errors in testing. --Todd Fabacher From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Wed Sep 25 13:13:44 2019 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2019 13:13:44 -0400 Subject: In-App Purchase Subscription In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <004901d573c4$98f8e3d0$caeaab70$@net> 2 quick notes on iOS in-app products. 1) DO NOT add a screen shot until you are getting ready to submit. The in-app product will time-out and you can't test. 2) Apple has never provided a facility to test a purchase that the user disputes and gets canceled in the sandbox. The only way to test is to put the app into production using a "special" product for tier 1 and pay the $.33 US royalty every time you test. The big rub here is that Apple only allows users it dispute and cancel an in-app product purchase a few times before you will be cut-off from disputes. Apple... go figure. My code is so big(bloated with some spaghetti I'm embarrassed to say) and tied so tightly into my app and handles both PlayStore/iOS, I don't know if it will be much help. You basically have to enable and wait for and process the various messages that you will get as a user navigates thru the Apple purchase prompts. I would start by testing in the sandbox and logging the various messages to get the feel on how the process progresses. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Todd Fabacher via use-livecode Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2019 12:28 PM To: Use-livecode Use-livecode Cc: Todd Fabacher Subject: In-App Purchase Subscription Hello LiveCode community, Does anyone have a sample of selling a subscription using LiveCode's In-App Purchase functionality? We are looking to sell an app with a monthly fee. I have it set up in Apple correct, but getting errors in testing. --Todd Fabacher _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From phil at pdslabs.net Wed Sep 25 14:04:34 2019 From: phil at pdslabs.net (Phil Davis) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2019 11:04:34 -0700 Subject: Stacks and Sub Stacks In-Reply-To: <64A03C4F-B587-4560-A55C-EA00AC6FCBDE@hindu.org> References: <1472164549.8533974.1569419685020@mail.yahoo.com> <64A03C4F-B587-4560-A55C-EA00AC6FCBDE@hindu.org> Message-ID: <3f989483-58ac-5447-aba6-3f621019686b@pdslabs.net> On 9/25/19 7:43 AM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode wrote: > Related: > > if you have this in the message box. > > put the openstacks > > you only get the > > 1. presently open binary stacks > 2. any script only stack that you explicitly have open in the IDE Some more options: put revLoadedStacks() This returns a list of all [binary] stacks in memory, both main & sub, whether they are open or not. put the mainStacks Returns a list of all mainstacks in memory, including script-only stacks, whether open or not. > > But, can you we a list of all stacks available to the message path "right now" > > We can query the stack files, but they are included with stack, but not necessarily open. And the stackFiles may list some stacks that no longer exist in those locations. ' The stackFiles of stack "myStack" ' is a user-supplied setting. It can get out of sync with reality pretty quickly as an app's folder tree changes. (but I guess you could script it to keep it current) My $0.02 - Phil Davis > > Another say to put this is when doing a > > start using "MyControls.livecodescript" > > ?later on, how do you query for all stacks "open" by "start using" > > BR > > Hi. > You probably mean script-only stacks. > Substacks are just stacks, but they live in the same file as the mainStack. It helps with organization, and when you save one, you save them all. You can only have one mainStack, but as many subStacks as you like. > For me, I have projects that use substacks for, say, data entry. The subStack is built just for that purpose. > When making a standalone, substacks are included in the final package. > Just practice a bit. > Craig > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode -- Phil Davis 503-307-4363 From marksmithhfx at gmail.com Wed Sep 25 15:06:38 2019 From: marksmithhfx at gmail.com (Mark Smith) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2019 20:06:38 +0100 Subject: Stacks and Sub Stacks In-Reply-To: <1472164549.8533974.1569419685020@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1472164549.8533974.1569419685020@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <046BEF7E-EA75-4545-A70C-B0A24034E40F@gmail.com> Do you ever have to call a substack from a main stack? If you do, do you have to preface the handler with a substack reference or does LC know where to look? Can you have 2 handlers by the same name in different sub stacks? How about in the main stack and a substack (that would really get confusing). Any recommendations on what NOT to put in a substack? Thanks Mark > On Sep 25, 2019, at 2:54 PM, dunbarx--- via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi. > You probably mean script-only stacks. > Substacks are just stacks, but they live in the same file as the mainStack. It helps with organization, and when you save one, you save them all. You can only have one mainStack, but as many subStacks as you like. > For me, I have projects that use substacks for, say, data entry. The subStack is built just for that purpose. > When making a standalone, substacks are included in the final package. > Just practice a bit. > Craig > > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick Roza via use-livecode > To: use-livecode > Cc: Patrick Roza > Sent: Wed, Sep 25, 2019 9:18 am > Subject: Stacks and Sub Stacks > > Looking for some good examples of the Main stack used with sub stacks. > Looking for best practices on usage. Also using text-only stacks. > > Thanks, > > Patrick > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dunbarx at aol.com Wed Sep 25 15:44:49 2019 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx at aol.com) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2019 19:44:49 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Stacks and Sub Stacks In-Reply-To: <1472164549.8533974.1569419685020@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1472164549.8533974.1569419685020@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <342181775.8642876.1569440689484@mail.yahoo.com> Hi. Substacks are below (Hi, Jacque) the mainStack which own them in the message hierarchy. Try this: Make a new stack, name it "Main1". Make a sub stack of that stack, and name it "Sub1". Put this into the script of the main stack: on mouseUp ? answer "Main" && random(99) end mouseUp Now put this into the script of the subStack: on mouseUp ? answer "Sub" && random(99) ? -- pass mouseDown end mouseUp If you click in the mainStack, you will get "Main...". If you click in the subStack, you will get "Sub..." If you uncomment the "pass" statement in the subStack, and click in the subStack, you will get both. So like any object in the hierarchy, you have to manage your messages. I really do not like the use-list. Craig From bogdanoff at me.com Wed Sep 25 15:46:56 2019 From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2019 12:46:56 -0700 Subject: Stacks and Sub Stacks In-Reply-To: <046BEF7E-EA75-4545-A70C-B0A24034E40F@gmail.com> References: <1472164549.8533974.1569419685020@mail.yahoo.com> <046BEF7E-EA75-4545-A70C-B0A24034E40F@gmail.com> Message-ID: Mark, you can easily use the send command for this. There is also the dispatch command. The call would go directly to the object, bypassing any hierarchy. Thus you can have the same-named handlers is other stacks without a conflict. Sometimes it is a good thing to have a same-named handler in various stacks. For example, if you have multiple stacks for data entry and you want to initialize the fields in the various stacks, you could: # Where tStacksToInitialize is a list of stacks # Each stack contains a handler emptyFields that knows exactly which fields to empty repeat for each line tLine in tStacksToInitialize send emptyFields to stack tLine end repeat Peter Bogdanoff ArtsInteractive > On Sep 25, 2019, at 12:06 PM, Mark Smith via use-livecode wrote: > > Do you ever have to call a substack from a main stack? If you do, do you have to preface the handler with a substack reference or does LC know where to look? Can you have 2 handlers by the same name in different sub stacks? How about in the main stack and a substack (that would really get confusing). Any recommendations on what NOT to put in a substack? > > Thanks > Mark > >> On Sep 25, 2019, at 2:54 PM, dunbarx--- via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Hi. >> You probably mean script-only stacks. >> Substacks are just stacks, but they live in the same file as the mainStack. It helps with organization, and when you save one, you save them all. You can only have one mainStack, but as many subStacks as you like. >> For me, I have projects that use substacks for, say, data entry. The subStack is built just for that purpose. >> When making a standalone, substacks are included in the final package. >> Just practice a bit. >> Craig >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Patrick Roza via use-livecode >> To: use-livecode >> Cc: Patrick Roza >> Sent: Wed, Sep 25, 2019 9:18 am >> Subject: Stacks and Sub Stacks >> >> Looking for some good examples of the Main stack used with sub stacks. >> Looking for best practices on usage. Also using text-only stacks. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Patrick >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dunbarx at aol.com Wed Sep 25 15:47:52 2019 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx at aol.com) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2019 19:47:52 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Stacks and Sub Stacks In-Reply-To: <342181775.8642876.1569440689484@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1472164549.8533974.1569419685020@mail.yahoo.com> <342181775.8642876.1569440689484@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2013373234.8662831.1569440872585@mail.yahoo.com> Should, of course, be: on mouseUp ? answer "Sub" && random(99) ? -- pass mouseUp end mouseUp I really, really do not like the use-list. Craig -----Original Message----- From: dunbarx--- via use-livecode To: use-livecode Cc: dunbarx Sent: Wed, Sep 25, 2019 3:45 pm Subject: Re: Stacks and Sub Stacks Hi. Substacks are below (Hi, Jacque) the mainStack which own them in the message hierarchy. Try this: Make a new stack, name it "Main1". Make a sub stack of that stack, and name it "Sub1". Put this into the script of the main stack: on mouseUp ? answer "Main" && random(99) end mouseUp Now put this into the script of the subStack: on mouseUp ? answer "Sub" && random(99) ? -- pass mouseDown end mouseUp If you click in the mainStack, you will get "Main...". If you click in the subStack, you will get "Sub..." If you uncomment the "pass" statement in the subStack, and click in the subStack, you will get both. So like any object in the hierarchy, you have to manage your messages. I really do not like the use-list. Craig _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Wed Sep 25 16:05:56 2019 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2019 16:05:56 -0400 Subject: Hactoberfest is coming... In-Reply-To: References: <3e3a2f1b-4f8e-4504-bf29-300450a21776@Spark> <7FBFF079-26F6-4469-810D-301DAEA300D8@pidigital.co.uk> Message-ID: The Hacktoberfest registration is now open: https://hacktoberfest.digitalocean.com Get registered and then between October 1, and 31, make 3 pull requests to projects housed on GitHub, and get your 2019 Hactoberfest swag! On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 12:43 PM Mark Wieder via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Just want to point out a good candidate for pull requests here. Ripe for > some sample xtalk code: > > https://github.com/EricAlcaide/Rosetta_Project > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Sep 25 17:05:32 2019 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2019 21:05:32 +0000 Subject: Stacks and Sub Stacks In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I like using SubStacks because I only need to open one file to get everything related to a project. Some people don't like using them because there are certain things that happen that you wouldn't expect. For instance, any preOpenStack, openStack, suspendStack, resumeStack etc. messages generated by a SubStack get sent to the MainStack as well, unless you insert stubs to stop the flow of those messages in the SubStack script, or else move them to the openCard script of the first card. Pick your poison. Another good reason for SubStacks is that you can get a list of just the stacks that correspond to th MainStack you are working with by getting the SubStacks of the MainStack. Otherwise you would need to get the openStacks, then filter the corresponding list somehow. Also the project manager benefits from using SubStacks, as do some utilities provided by other LC devs (thank you all for those BTW). There are other reasons I cannot remember just now, but some people don't like using them. It kind of doesn't make a difference if you are creating standalones because the SB by default will separate the substacks out into individual stacks when you create the standalone. Bob S > On Sep 25, 2019, at 06:19 , Patrick Roza via use-livecode wrote: > > Looking for some good examples of the Main stack used with sub stacks. > Looking for best practices on usage. Also using text-only stacks. > > Thanks, > > Patrick From sean at pidigital.co.uk Wed Sep 25 17:05:43 2019 From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Pi Digital) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2019 22:05:43 +0100 Subject: Hactoberfest is coming... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4CE5F263-FFF6-4EDF-9817-58E6181FA0AB@pidigital.co.uk> Correction. You can only begin registering from 1st October according to the site. I?m going to be submitting a bunch of fixes and updates for HTML5 deployment to get it usable professionally again. But I have to weave this around my (barely) paid work developing a web app using the broken version (with the current workarounds which are enough for now). Sean Cole Pi Digital Prod Ltd > On 25 Sep 2019, at 21:05, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > > ?The Hacktoberfest registration is now open: > https://hacktoberfest.digitalocean.com > > > Get registered and then between October 1, and 31, make 3 pull requests to > projects housed on GitHub, and get your 2019 Hactoberfest swag! > >> On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 12:43 PM Mark Wieder via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >> Just want to point out a good candidate for pull requests here. Ripe for >> some sample xtalk code: >> >> https://github.com/EricAlcaide/Rosetta_Project >> >> -- >> Mark Wieder >> ahsoftware at gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at researchware.com Wed Sep 25 17:50:15 2019 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2019 17:50:15 -0400 Subject: Does anyone know... Message-ID: ... how often the Unicode engine/rules are updated in LiveCode? For example, the standard is at 12.1 (released May 2019 to add 1 character) and the last major release was 12.0 (released March 2019). Does anyone know what version the Unicode library in LC905rc1 uses? Perhaps a? "the unicodeVersion" property might be a nice tiny addition to the language? From monte at appisle.net Wed Sep 25 20:54:56 2019 From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding) Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2019 10:54:56 +1000 Subject: Does anyone know... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6CD3A201-C3F3-4F5A-9B64-4AC60A52E42D@appisle.net> We currently use ICU 58.2 which looks to be Unicode 9.0 + some extras http://site.icu-project.org/download/58 > On 26 Sep 2019, at 7:50 am, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > > ... how often the Unicode engine/rules are updated in LiveCode? For example, the standard is at 12.1 (released May 2019 to add 1 character) and the last major release was 12.0 (released March 2019). Does anyone know what version the Unicode library in LC905rc1 uses? > > Perhaps a "the unicodeVersion" property might be a nice tiny addition to the language? > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mike at golddogcoffee.com Wed Sep 25 22:35:01 2019 From: mike at golddogcoffee.com (Mike for GDC) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2019 20:35:01 -0600 Subject: Help with iOS app submission. Message-ID: <000601d57413$00c7ea80$0257bf80$@golddogcoffee.com> I would like to get some help (consulting) to help me with the final stage of uploading an app to the app store. Can pay your going rate for help. Please contact me directly if interested. Thanks. Mike From heather.williams11 at btinternet.com Thu Sep 26 04:05:04 2019 From: heather.williams11 at btinternet.com (Heather Laine) Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2019 09:05:04 +0100 Subject: In-App Purchase Subscription In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: In case its helpful: http://lessons.livecode.com/m/4069/l/186807-how-do-i-implement-in-app-purchases-in-livecode-apple-appstore Regards, Heather > On 25 Sep 2019, at 17:28, Todd Fabacher via use-livecode wrote: > > Hello LiveCode community, > > Does anyone have a sample of selling a subscription using LiveCode's In-App > Purchase functionality? We are looking to sell an app with a monthly fee. I > have it set up in Apple correct, but getting errors in testing. > > --Todd Fabacher > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From iphonelagi at gmail.com Thu Sep 26 06:17:15 2019 From: iphonelagi at gmail.com (Lagi Pittas) Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2019 11:17:15 +0100 Subject: In-App Purchase Subscription In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Heather, Todd is Au Fait with all that, it wasn't purchases that were the problem it was subscriptions , Todd wrapped that up it up easily on the Google Play Store.. In the end I Googled(Duck Duck Go'd actually) and found a MUCH easier way by enabling server to server notifications. So with a bit of Node.JS on the server, the code doesn't depend on language features for subscriptions and can be used in any language than can do a HTTP POST. https://developer.apple.com/documentation/storekit/in-app_purchase/enabling_server-to-server_notifications https://tjaart.gitlab.io/post/implementing_app_transport_security_on_nodejs/ Hope this helps others. Oh and thanks to Ralph for the low cost tier trick - seems we have to put the App on the store before we can test. Lagi On Thu, 26 Sep 2019 at 09:06, Heather Laine via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > In case its helpful: > > > http://lessons.livecode.com/m/4069/l/186807-how-do-i-implement-in-app-purchases-in-livecode-apple-appstore > < > http://lessons.livecode.com/m/4069/l/186807-how-do-i-implement-in-app-purchases-in-livecode-apple-appstore > > > > Regards, > > Heather > > > On 25 Sep 2019, at 17:28, Todd Fabacher via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > Hello LiveCode community, > > > > Does anyone have a sample of selling a subscription using LiveCode's > In-App > > Purchase functionality? We are looking to sell an app with a monthly > fee. I > > have it set up in Apple correct, but getting errors in testing. > > > > --Todd Fabacher > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Thu Sep 26 07:52:19 2019 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2019 07:52:19 -0400 Subject: In-App Purchase Subscription In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <002d01d57460$dcf6ec70$96e4c550$@net> Lagi, You can test purchasing by creating test sandbox iTunes user on iTunesConnect. Then login in to it on your test device. You can then purchase without cost. The only test you can't do is a dispute cancelation. That you need the low tier test on a live iTunes account to fully test. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Lagi Pittas via use-livecode Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2019 6:17 AM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: Lagi Pittas Subject: Re: In-App Purchase Subscription Hi Heather, Todd is Au Fait with all that, it wasn't purchases that were the problem it was subscriptions , Todd wrapped that up it up easily on the Google Play Store.. In the end I Googled(Duck Duck Go'd actually) and found a MUCH easier way by enabling server to server notifications. So with a bit of Node.JS on the server, the code doesn't depend on language features for subscriptions and can be used in any language than can do a HTTP POST. https://developer.apple.com/documentation/storekit/in-app_purchase/enabling_ server-to-server_notifications https://tjaart.gitlab.io/post/implementing_app_transport_security_on_nodejs/ Hope this helps others. Oh and thanks to Ralph for the low cost tier trick - seems we have to put the App on the store before we can test. Lagi On Thu, 26 Sep 2019 at 09:06, Heather Laine via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > In case its helpful: > > > http://lessons.livecode.com/m/4069/l/186807-how-do-i-implement-in-app- > purchases-in-livecode-apple-appstore > < > http://lessons.livecode.com/m/4069/l/186807-how-do-i-implement-in-app- > purchases-in-livecode-apple-appstore > > > > Regards, > > Heather > > > On 25 Sep 2019, at 17:28, Todd Fabacher via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > Hello LiveCode community, > > > > Does anyone have a sample of selling a subscription using LiveCode's > In-App > > Purchase functionality? We are looking to sell an app with a monthly > fee. I > > have it set up in Apple correct, but getting errors in testing. > > > > --Todd Fabacher > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at researchware.com Thu Sep 26 09:15:47 2019 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2019 09:15:47 -0400 Subject: Does anyone know... In-Reply-To: <6CD3A201-C3F3-4F5A-9B64-4AC60A52E42D@appisle.net> References: <6CD3A201-C3F3-4F5A-9B64-4AC60A52E42D@appisle.net> Message-ID: <0144137b-7247-d7f2-5bda-0cc59ab07f07@researchware.com> Thank you Monte! I ask because a text document we're working with word counting and word searching was returning odd results for a document in Georgian, but all other tested other languages (far short of all languages) are correct. I saw that Unicode 11.0 made some changes to Georgian. It would be nice if LC 10 (or a sooner version) could include an update to ICU 64.2 which covers Unicode 12.0. ICU 61.2 especially is listed as have addressed many bug fixes that could account for some of the Unicode oddness we're still seeing (a few of which have been reported to the Quality Center) On 9/25/2019 8:54 PM, Monte Goulding via use-livecode wrote: > We currently use ICU 58.2 which looks to be Unicode 9.0 + some extras http://site.icu-project.org/download/58 > >> On 26 Sep 2019, at 7:50 am, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: >> >> ... how often the Unicode engine/rules are updated in LiveCode? For example, the standard is at 12.1 (released May 2019 to add 1 character) and the last major release was 12.0 (released March 2019). Does anyone know what version the Unicode library in LC905rc1 uses? >> >> Perhaps a "the unicodeVersion" property might be a nice tiny addition to the language? >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From dan at clearvisiontech.com Thu Sep 26 14:31:01 2019 From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman) Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2019 18:31:01 +0000 Subject: help with mobileSetKeyboardType Message-ID: I am having some trouble with mobileSetKeyboardType. Can anyone tell me why mobileSetKeyboardType works with this: mobileSetKeyboardType "number" ask "Enter a number" But it doesn?t work with this: mobileSetKeyboardType "number" mobileControlCreate "input","_editingField" mobileControlSet "_editingField","rect","20,20,200,60" mobileControlSet "_editingField","text","123" mobileControlSet "_editingField","visible",true mobileControlDo "_editingField","focus" Doesn't seem to matter what I set mobileSetKeyboardType to or when I set it. It always shows the "normal" keyboard. Using LiveCode Business 9.5.0, testing on a iPhone X -Dan From devin_asay at byu.edu Thu Sep 26 14:45:35 2019 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2019 18:45:35 +0000 Subject: help with mobileSetKeyboardType In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0C8E2C20-EBFA-484C-AE10-94BFF7B21F55@byu.edu> Dan, I believe it?s because setting keyboard type with a mobile native control is done by setting a property with mobileControlSet: mobileControlCreate "input","_editingField? mobileControlSet ?input?, ?keyboardType?, ?number? The mobileSetKeyboardType command works in all other circumstances, including with native LiveCode fields. Devin > On Sep 26, 2019, at 12:31 PM, Dan Friedman via use-livecode wrote: > > I am having some trouble with mobileSetKeyboardType. Can anyone tell me why mobileSetKeyboardType works with this: > > mobileSetKeyboardType "number" > ask "Enter a number" > > But it doesn?t work with this: > > mobileSetKeyboardType "number" > mobileControlCreate "input","_editingField" > mobileControlSet "_editingField","rect","20,20,200,60" > mobileControlSet "_editingField","text","123" > mobileControlSet "_editingField","visible",true > mobileControlDo "_editingField","focus" > > Doesn't seem to matter what I set mobileSetKeyboardType to or when I set it. It always shows the "normal" keyboard. > > Using LiveCode Business 9.5.0, testing on a iPhone X > > -Dan > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode Devin Asay Director Office of Digital Humanities Brigham Young University From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Sep 26 15:52:25 2019 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2019 14:52:25 -0500 Subject: help with mobileSetKeyboardType In-Reply-To: <0C8E2C20-EBFA-484C-AE10-94BFF7B21F55@byu.edu> References: <0C8E2C20-EBFA-484C-AE10-94BFF7B21F55@byu.edu> Message-ID: <638243b1-b633-93e7-dae6-288a6e5ed60c@hyperactivesw.com> FWIW, I couldn't get this to work at all: mobileControlSet ?input?, ?keyboardType?, ?search? The only thing that worked for me was mobileSetKeyboardType, with the caveat that it had to be issued after the native control was created. And the glitch there is that it doesn't take effect until the keyboard is re-activated, so you have to make sure that the field isn't focused until after you set up the native control. That is, if the keyboard pops up due to auto-focusing when the card opens, the keyboard won't be right until the next time it appears. On 9/26/19 1:45 PM, Devin Asay via use-livecode wrote: > Dan, > > I believe it?s because setting keyboard type with a mobile native control is done by setting a property with mobileControlSet: > > mobileControlCreate "input","_editingField? > mobileControlSet ?input?, ?keyboardType?, ?number? > > The mobileSetKeyboardType command works in all other circumstances, including with native LiveCode fields. > > Devin > > >> On Sep 26, 2019, at 12:31 PM, Dan Friedman via use-livecode wrote: >> >> I am having some trouble with mobileSetKeyboardType. Can anyone tell me why mobileSetKeyboardType works with this: >> >> mobileSetKeyboardType "number" >> ask "Enter a number" >> >> But it doesn?t work with this: >> >> mobileSetKeyboardType "number" >> mobileControlCreate "input","_editingField" >> mobileControlSet "_editingField","rect","20,20,200,60" >> mobileControlSet "_editingField","text","123" >> mobileControlSet "_editingField","visible",true >> mobileControlDo "_editingField","focus" >> >> Doesn't seem to matter what I set mobileSetKeyboardType to or when I set it. It always shows the "normal" keyboard. >> >> Using LiveCode Business 9.5.0, testing on a iPhone X >> >> -Dan >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > Devin Asay > Director > Office of Digital Humanities > Brigham Young University > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Sep 26 15:54:57 2019 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2019 14:54:57 -0500 Subject: LC Garbage Collection? In-Reply-To: <707F72AF-84F4-4180-8B6E-6AD5825CB9A7@swcp.com> References: <707F72AF-84F4-4180-8B6E-6AD5825CB9A7@swcp.com> Message-ID: <7dc1fc6c-f950-856a-3753-731e48807b7d@hyperactivesw.com> On 9/24/19 2:39 PM, Dar Scott Consulting via use-livecode wrote: > Sources of memory leaks are LC, LC scripts, OS, libraries, LCB and (I suppose) compilers. I don't think we can assume the problem is not in the user script. I have seen script memory leaks like these: > 1. Leaving large data in script locals ... Is 2.5MB considered large data? I'm having issues on my Pixel that I think may be memory-related. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From tom at makeshyft.com Thu Sep 26 16:10:04 2019 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2019 16:10:04 -0400 Subject: LC Garbage Collection? In-Reply-To: <7dc1fc6c-f950-856a-3753-731e48807b7d@hyperactivesw.com> References: <707F72AF-84F4-4180-8B6E-6AD5825CB9A7@swcp.com> <7dc1fc6c-f950-856a-3753-731e48807b7d@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: 2.5 mb is not big at all..... please remember to test with 9.05 when worried about leaks. On Thu, Sep 26, 2019 at 3:55 PM J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On 9/24/19 2:39 PM, Dar Scott Consulting via use-livecode wrote: > > Sources of memory leaks are LC, LC scripts, OS, libraries, LCB and (I > suppose) compilers. I don't think we can assume the problem is not in the > user script. I have seen script memory leaks like these: > > 1. Leaving large data in script locals > ... > > Is 2.5MB considered large data? I'm having issues on my Pixel that I > think may be memory-related. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Tom Glod Founder & Developer MakeShyft R.D.A (www.makeshyft.com) Office:226-706-9339 Mobile:226-706-9793 From dan at clearvisiontech.com Thu Sep 26 16:15:38 2019 From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman) Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2019 20:15:38 +0000 Subject: help with mobileSetKeyboardType In-Reply-To: <638243b1-b633-93e7-dae6-288a6e5ed60c@hyperactivesw.com> References: <0C8E2C20-EBFA-484C-AE10-94BFF7B21F55@byu.edu> <638243b1-b633-93e7-dae6-288a6e5ed60c@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <1386EFEB-CF56-4C29-9C4F-FE0C24143717@clearvisiontech.com> I too was not able to get this to work: mobileControlSet ?input?, ?keyboardType?, ?search? But, I see that "search" is not listed in the docs as an acceptable keyboardType value. When I tried any of the listed values, it did work. Thanks for the assist Devin! -Dan ?On 9/26/19, 12:53 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of J. Landman Gay via use-livecode" wrote: FWIW, I couldn't get this to work at all: mobileControlSet ?input?, ?keyboardType?, ?search? The only thing that worked for me was mobileSetKeyboardType, with the caveat that it had to be issued after the native control was created. And the glitch there is that it doesn't take effect until the keyboard is re-activated, so you have to make sure that the field isn't focused until after you set up the native control. That is, if the keyboard pops up due to auto-focusing when the card opens, the keyboard won't be right until the next time it appears. On 9/26/19 1:45 PM, Devin Asay via use-livecode wrote: > Dan, > > I believe it?s because setting keyboard type with a mobile native control is done by setting a property with mobileControlSet: > > mobileControlCreate "input","_editingField? > mobileControlSet ?input?, ?keyboardType?, ?number? > > The mobileSetKeyboardType command works in all other circumstances, including with native LiveCode fields. > > Devin > > >> On Sep 26, 2019, at 12:31 PM, Dan Friedman via use-livecode wrote: >> >> I am having some trouble with mobileSetKeyboardType. Can anyone tell me why mobileSetKeyboardType works with this: >> >> mobileSetKeyboardType "number" >> ask "Enter a number" >> >> But it doesn?t work with this: >> >> mobileSetKeyboardType "number" >> mobileControlCreate "input","_editingField" >> mobileControlSet "_editingField","rect","20,20,200,60" >> mobileControlSet "_editingField","text","123" >> mobileControlSet "_editingField","visible",true >> mobileControlDo "_editingField","focus" >> >> Doesn't seem to matter what I set mobileSetKeyboardType to or when I set it. It always shows the "normal" keyboard. >> >> Using LiveCode Business 9.5.0, testing on a iPhone X >> >> -Dan >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > Devin Asay > Director > Office of Digital Humanities > Brigham Young University > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Thu Sep 26 16:47:17 2019 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2019 16:47:17 -0400 Subject: Hactoberfest is coming... In-Reply-To: <4CE5F263-FFF6-4EDF-9817-58E6181FA0AB@pidigital.co.uk> References: <4CE5F263-FFF6-4EDF-9817-58E6181FA0AB@pidigital.co.uk> Message-ID: are you sure? i registered 10 minutes before i posted that email and received a confirmation, so did i post the wrong link? On Wed, Sep 25, 2019 at 5:06 PM Pi Digital via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Correction. You can only begin registering from 1st October according to > the site. > > I?m going to be submitting a bunch of fixes and updates for HTML5 > deployment to get it usable professionally again. But I have to weave this > around my (barely) paid work developing a web app using the broken version > (with the current workarounds which are enough for now). > > Sean Cole > Pi Digital Prod Ltd > > > On 25 Sep 2019, at 21:05, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > ?The Hacktoberfest registration is now open: > > https://hacktoberfest.digitalocean.com > > < > https://hacktoberfest.digitalocean.com/?utm_source=local&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Hacktoberfest2019 > > > > > > Get registered and then between October 1, and 31, make 3 pull requests > to > > projects housed on GitHub, and get your 2019 Hactoberfest swag! > > > >> On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 12:43 PM Mark Wieder via use-livecode < > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> > >> Just want to point out a good candidate for pull requests here. Ripe for > >> some sample xtalk code: > >> > >> https://github.com/EricAlcaide/Rosetta_Project > >> > >> -- > >> Mark Wieder > >> ahsoftware at gmail.com > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > > > > > > -- > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > and did a little diving. > > And God said, "This is good." > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From sean at pidigital.co.uk Thu Sep 26 17:49:04 2019 From: sean at pidigital.co.uk (Pi Digital) Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2019 22:49:04 +0100 Subject: Hactoberfest is coming... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2675D335-17C1-44A8-988F-E71B1D6F5FDC@pidigital.co.uk> Was that response email for signing up to GitHub perhaps. The Hacktoberfest site says everywhere I look: You can sign up anytime between October 1 and October 31. There are no links I can find to sign up to the fest yet, just a few links to github which will ask you to sign in/up when it loads. Sean Cole Pi Digital Prod Ltd > On 26 Sep 2019, at 21:47, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > > ?are you sure? i registered 10 minutes before i posted that email and > received a confirmation, so did i post the wrong link? > >> On Wed, Sep 25, 2019 at 5:06 PM Pi Digital via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >> Correction. You can only begin registering from 1st October according to >> the site. >> >> I?m going to be submitting a bunch of fixes and updates for HTML5 >> deployment to get it usable professionally again. But I have to weave this >> around my (barely) paid work developing a web app using the broken version >> (with the current workarounds which are enough for now). >> >> Sean Cole >> Pi Digital Prod Ltd >> >>> On 25 Sep 2019, at 21:05, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> >>> ?The Hacktoberfest registration is now open: >>> https://hacktoberfest.digitalocean.com >>> < >> https://hacktoberfest.digitalocean.com/?utm_source=local&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Hacktoberfest2019 >>> >>> >>> Get registered and then between October 1, and 31, make 3 pull requests >> to >>> projects housed on GitHub, and get your 2019 Hactoberfest swag! >>> >>>> On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 12:43 PM Mark Wieder via use-livecode < >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Just want to point out a good candidate for pull requests here. Ripe for >>>> some sample xtalk code: >>>> >>>> https://github.com/EricAlcaide/Rosetta_Project >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Mark Wieder >>>> ahsoftware at gmail.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >>> On the second day, God created the oceans. >>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >>> and did a little diving. >>> And God said, "This is good." >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Sep 26 18:23:12 2019 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2019 15:23:12 -0700 Subject: LC Garbage Collection? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <459be60e-574a-917b-a158-6c267046a197@fourthworld.com> Tom Glod wrote: > Hi folks, I'm wondering if anyone can help me to understand > Livecode's garbage collection. I am developing an application that > is intended to stay in memory and so I must watch memory consumption > carefully. I've had some instances where memory ran way out of > control.... but I found a couple of reasons for that...... one of > them being the dozen or so memory leaks that were fixed in 9.05. Not sure if this is directly related, but some time ago I found that using and emptying large arrays successively resulted in a condition that looks like a leak, but was later characterized more specifically as fragmentation: https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17434 Comment #4 there from Mark Waddingham shows a ramping up of usage that then levels off, but Comment #7 from Mark Talluto describes a scenario in which the effect over time can become so severe as to require ending the LC process. I'm not familiar enough with the mechanics of fragmentation to offer any sort of fix for that. As a scripter, I would just like memeory to be re-released when not in use, but I recognize that putting "just" before something doesn't necessarily make it easy to accomplish. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From monte at appisle.net Thu Sep 26 20:02:21 2019 From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding) Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2019 10:02:21 +1000 Subject: Does anyone know... In-Reply-To: <0144137b-7247-d7f2-5bda-0cc59ab07f07@researchware.com> References: <6CD3A201-C3F3-4F5A-9B64-4AC60A52E42D@appisle.net> <0144137b-7247-d7f2-5bda-0cc59ab07f07@researchware.com> Message-ID: <9BFEBCF7-3201-46B7-9485-8F7514D10AC7@appisle.net> Perhaps create a bug report with the document attached etc. > On 26 Sep 2019, at 11:15 pm, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > > Thank you Monte! > > I ask because a text document we're working with word counting and word searching was returning odd results for a document in Georgian, but all other tested other languages (far short of all languages) are correct. I saw that Unicode 11.0 made some changes to Georgian. > > It would be nice if LC 10 (or a sooner version) could include an update to ICU 64.2 which covers Unicode 12.0. ICU 61.2 especially is listed as have addressed many bug fixes that could account for some of the Unicode oddness we're still seeing (a few of which have been reported to the Quality Center) > > > On 9/25/2019 8:54 PM, Monte Goulding via use-livecode wrote: >> We currently use ICU 58.2 which looks to be Unicode 9.0 + some extras http://site.icu-project.org/download/58 >> >>> On 26 Sep 2019, at 7:50 am, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> ... how often the Unicode engine/rules are updated in LiveCode? For example, the standard is at 12.1 (released May 2019 to add 1 character) and the last major release was 12.0 (released March 2019). Does anyone know what version the Unicode library in LC905rc1 uses? >>> >>> Perhaps a "the unicodeVersion" property might be a nice tiny addition to the language? >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dsc at swcp.com Fri Sep 27 00:12:18 2019 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott Consulting) Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2019 22:12:18 -0600 Subject: LC Garbage Collection? In-Reply-To: <7dc1fc6c-f950-856a-3753-731e48807b7d@hyperactivesw.com> References: <707F72AF-84F4-4180-8B6E-6AD5825CB9A7@swcp.com> <7dc1fc6c-f950-856a-3753-731e48807b7d@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <4BCFEC79-EC76-4B81-99F0-F28FA77692EF@swcp.com> I don't think that is large. If you are processing data the same size and somehow leaving the previous data around, that might build up. That might build up in queues and stacks, in a message storm and in appended data. But, I am guessing that that is not likely. > On Sep 26, 2019, at 1:54 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > > On 9/24/19 2:39 PM, Dar Scott Consulting via use-livecode wrote: >> Sources of memory leaks are LC, LC scripts, OS, libraries, LCB and (I suppose) compilers. I don't think we can assume the problem is not in the user script. I have seen script memory leaks like these: >> 1. Leaving large data in script locals > ... > > Is 2.5MB considered large data? I'm having issues on my Pixel that I think may be memory-related. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at researchware.com Fri Sep 27 12:26:26 2019 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2019 12:26:26 -0400 Subject: Language convenience rant... Message-ID: <60ef9614-1a95-c10c-a52f-b060199da7c9@researchware.com> Assume I have a function guessTextEncoding that returns the various possible encoding for a text file. If the file is MacRoman and my app is running on OSX (Platform() = "MacOS") I can use: put URL ("file:"&tFile) into tText put textDecode(tText,"Native") into ... destination OR put textDecode(tText,"MacRoman") into ... destination Howeever if I have a MacRoman encoded text file (moved from OSX to Window via USB Memory stick or however) and my app is running under Windows put textDecode(tText,"MacRomam") into ... destination Throws a script error as MacRoman as an encoding parameter for the function is, as stated in the documentation, OSX ONLY, so instead I have to put URL ("file:"&tFile) into tText put macToIso(tText) into ... destination And conversely the same is true with a CP1252 encoded file under Windows put URL ("file:"&tFile) into tText put textDecode(tText,"Native") into ... destination OR put textDecode(tText,"CP1252") into ... destination both are good, but for a CP1252 encoded text file under OSX... put textDecode(tText,"CP1252") into ... destination throws an error, and so you have to use put URL ("file:"&tFile) into tText put isoToMac(tText) into ... destination You would think that SINCE the engine knows the platform AND the isoToMac and macToIso functions exists in the engine regardless of platform, that LiveCode, Ltd could have made: put textDecode(tText,"MacRomam") into ... destination WORK under Windows AND put textDecode(tText,"CP1252") into ... destination WORK under OSX So that instead of a SWITCH statements or a bunch of if-the-elses based on the results of a guessTextEncoding(tFile) function, you could just do: put guessTextEncoding(tFile) into tEncoding put URL ("file:"&tFile) into tText put textDecode(tText,tEncoding) into ... destination! Enhancement request: https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22391 From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Sep 27 14:44:00 2019 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2019 13:44:00 -0500 Subject: LC Garbage Collection? In-Reply-To: <4BCFEC79-EC76-4B81-99F0-F28FA77692EF@swcp.com> References: <707F72AF-84F4-4180-8B6E-6AD5825CB9A7@swcp.com> <7dc1fc6c-f950-856a-3753-731e48807b7d@hyperactivesw.com> <4BCFEC79-EC76-4B81-99F0-F28FA77692EF@swcp.com> Message-ID: <3ed72a2d-35c1-17dd-5375-c7c8c8961fdb@hyperactivesw.com> Do we have a ballpark idea of what "large" might be? Is it more like a gigabyte or a few hundred megabytes or...? I know it will be variable and depend on other factors, but it would be nice to have a general idea. On 9/26/19 11:12 PM, Dar Scott Consulting via use-livecode wrote: > I don't think that is large. If you are processing data the same size and somehow leaving the previous data around, that might build up. That might build up in queues and stacks, in a message storm and in appended data. But, I am guessing that that is not likely. > >> On Sep 26, 2019, at 1:54 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >> >> On 9/24/19 2:39 PM, Dar Scott Consulting via use-livecode wrote: >>> Sources of memory leaks are LC, LC scripts, OS, libraries, LCB and (I suppose) compilers. I don't think we can assume the problem is not in the user script. I have seen script memory leaks like these: >>> 1. Leaving large data in script locals >> ... >> >> Is 2.5MB considered large data? I'm having issues on my Pixel that I think may be memory-related. >> >> -- >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Fri Sep 27 15:59:35 2019 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2019 12:59:35 -0700 Subject: LC Garbage Collection? In-Reply-To: <3ed72a2d-35c1-17dd-5375-c7c8c8961fdb@hyperactivesw.com> References: <3ed72a2d-35c1-17dd-5375-c7c8c8961fdb@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <301014b8-4f7c-60ac-790a-72e53a47f1cd@fourthworld.com> I think "large" is dependent on context. I've used LSON files larger than 100 MB, but I don't know that I would recommend that for all possible use cases. The bug DB link in this post suggests that size of a given array isn't necessarily a problem or not a problem, it all depends on what specifically you need to do with it, and whether you are unable to do what you want in your app's context. http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2019-September/256247.html -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems J. Landman Gay wrote:> Do we have a ballpark idea of what "large" might be? Is it more like a > gigabyte or a few hundred megabytes or...? I know it will be variable > and depend on other factors, but it would be nice to have a general idea. > > On 9/26/19 11:12 PM, Dar Scott Consulting via use-livecode wrote: >> I don't think that is large. If you are processing data the same size and somehow leaving the previous data around, that might build up. That might build up in queues and stacks, in a message storm and in appended data. But, I am guessing that that is not likely. >> >>> On Sep 26, 2019, at 1:54 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> On 9/24/19 2:39 PM, Dar Scott Consulting via use-livecode wrote: >>>> Sources of memory leaks are LC, LC scripts, OS, libraries, LCB and (I suppose) compilers. I don't think we can assume the problem is not in the user script. I have seen script memory leaks like these: >>>> 1. Leaving large data in script locals >>> ... >>> >>> Is 2.5MB considered large data? I'm having issues on my Pixel that I think may be memory-related. >>> From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Sep 27 16:04:49 2019 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2019 15:04:49 -0500 Subject: Mobile scroller misaligned Message-ID: I must be doing something wrong, I still can't get a mobile scroller to align at anything other than zero. It fails on scrollers placed over either images or scrolling fields. I have a list field with a lot of lines, grouped, with the group shorter than the field. On mobile (Android in my case) a handler sets the hilitedLine of the field and scrolls the group to display it. I create a native scroller on the group and set the vScroll to the same scroll as the group. I can't get the scroller to align correctly. The list shows on demand, so the scroller has to be created when the group becomes visible, and has to match the group's current scroll. mobileControlSet pName, "vScroll", tVScroll -- fails unless it's zero Has anyone done this successfully? I'm pretty sure there's something wrong with my script. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Fri Sep 27 16:40:50 2019 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2019 16:40:50 -0400 Subject: Hactoberfest is coming... In-Reply-To: <2675D335-17C1-44A8-988F-E71B1D6F5FDC@pidigital.co.uk> References: <2675D335-17C1-44A8-988F-E71B1D6F5FDC@pidigital.co.uk> Message-ID: click on the "start hacking" button in the page and you can sign up. i don't know what it will do for people who don't already have a github account, but here's what I got: [image: Hacktoberfest 2019] You?re officially registered for Hacktoberfest 2019! So we wanted to send you everything you?ll need to help you get started. A good place to dive in is our Details page, which breaks down the fine print for this year?s event. We also put together a list of contribution ideas that may help spark some contribution ideas. If you?d like to link up with other local Hacktoberfest participants, have a look at our Events page to see what?s happening near you. For common questions, take a look at our FAQs . And finally, check out the "Getting Started " resource put together by our friends over at DEV . As this year?s event kicks off, we hope you?ll spread the word about #Hacktoberfest across your social media channels! Happy Hacking, Team Hacktoberfest On Thu, Sep 26, 2019 at 5:50 PM Pi Digital via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Was that response email for signing up to GitHub perhaps. The > Hacktoberfest site says everywhere I look: > > You can sign up anytime between October 1 and October 31. > > There are no links I can find to sign up to the fest yet, just a few links > to github which will ask you to sign in/up when it loads. > > Sean Cole > Pi Digital Prod Ltd > > > On 26 Sep 2019, at 21:47, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > ?are you sure? i registered 10 minutes before i posted that email and > > received a confirmation, so did i post the wrong link? > > > >> On Wed, Sep 25, 2019 at 5:06 PM Pi Digital via use-livecode < > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> > >> Correction. You can only begin registering from 1st October according to > >> the site. > >> > >> I?m going to be submitting a bunch of fixes and updates for HTML5 > >> deployment to get it usable professionally again. But I have to weave > this > >> around my (barely) paid work developing a web app using the broken > version > >> (with the current workarounds which are enough for now). > >> > >> Sean Cole > >> Pi Digital Prod Ltd > >> > >>> On 25 Sep 2019, at 21:05, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >>> > >>> ?The Hacktoberfest registration is now open: > >>> https://hacktoberfest.digitalocean.com > >>> < > >> > https://hacktoberfest.digitalocean.com/?utm_source=local&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Hacktoberfest2019 > >>> > >>> > >>> Get registered and then between October 1, and 31, make 3 pull requests > >> to > >>> projects housed on GitHub, and get your 2019 Hactoberfest swag! > >>> > >>>> On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 12:43 PM Mark Wieder via use-livecode < > >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Just want to point out a good candidate for pull requests here. Ripe > for > >>>> some sample xtalk code: > >>>> > >>>> https://github.com/EricAlcaide/Rosetta_Project > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> Mark Wieder > >>>> ahsoftware at gmail.com > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> use-livecode mailing list > >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >>>> subscription preferences: > >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > >>> On the second day, God created the oceans. > >>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > >>> and did a little diving. > >>> And God said, "This is good." > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> use-livecode mailing list > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > > > > > > -- > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > and did a little diving. > > And God said, "This is good." > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From brahma at hindu.org Fri Sep 27 23:29:17 2019 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2019 03:29:17 +0000 Subject: Stacks and Sub Stacks In-Reply-To: <3f989483-58ac-5447-aba6-3f621019686b@pdslabs.net> References: <1472164549.8533974.1569419685020@mail.yahoo.com> <64A03C4F-B587-4560-A55C-EA00AC6FCBDE@hindu.org> <3f989483-58ac-5447-aba6-3f621019686b@pdslabs.net> Message-ID: <36FF5C15-8C83-4BF1-86BC-3A35B230B0C6@hindu.org> Thanks for answers of "how to get a list of all stacks?" put revLoadedStacks() put the mainstack stacksinuse all good! But, they return different results....very interesting... stackInUse does not include some stacks reported by "revLoaderStacks()" both lists have their use cases... but the mainstacks return all stacks, including those in use by the Rev/IDE... less useful with stacks more and more use as "views" in an MCV architecture. They do not appear in "stackInUse" but the DO appear in revLoaderStack(). That is a useful distinction. ----------- No one answers the other question, so I will ask it here, as it goes to Message Hierarchy "put gotSomeFruit() into tBanana" where " gotSomeFruit ()" is among the functions/handlers is found among "stackInUse". ie. You DO get an returned result from the function. But, sometimes, in the Script Editor, "Get Definition" is dimmed. Is this a known bug? BR From paul at researchware.com Sat Sep 28 07:48:39 2019 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2019 07:48:39 -0400 Subject: Stacks and Sub Stacks In-Reply-To: <36FF5C15-8C83-4BF1-86BC-3A35B230B0C6@hindu.org> References: <1472164549.8533974.1569419685020@mail.yahoo.com> <64A03C4F-B587-4560-A55C-EA00AC6FCBDE@hindu.org> <3f989483-58ac-5447-aba6-3f621019686b@pdslabs.net> <36FF5C15-8C83-4BF1-86BC-3A35B230B0C6@hindu.org> Message-ID: <0ea33806-fa2e-b33f-793e-40b6ed83ac7d@researchware.com> On 9/27/2019 11:29 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode wrote: > No one answers the other question, so I will ask it here, as it goes to Message Hierarchy > > "put gotSomeFruit() into tBanana" > > where " gotSomeFruit ()" is among the functions/handlers is found among "stackInUse". ie. You DO get an returned result from the function. > > But, sometimes, in the Script Editor, "Get Definition" is dimmed. > Get Definition appears to work if and only if there is 2 or more instances of the message, function, etc. in the possible message paths. If there is only a single instance, such as their might be for a custom function like "gotSomeFruit()" then it is dimmed out. From sundown at pacifier.com Sat Sep 28 10:05:32 2019 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2019 07:05:32 -0700 Subject: open process Message-ID: <242BA3AD-5F82-4EBE-9F45-8AE776560DF1@pacifier.com> In a shell command I can execute a external program using the following code: on mouseUp set the defaultFolder to desktop put ?myPic.jpg" into tFILE1 put ?myPic copy.jpg" into tFILE2 put shell( "./copy" && quote & tFILE1 & quote && quote & tFILE2 & quote) into pData answer question pData ?will be success or failed end mouseUp The code above will execute a program that has two arguments which are the source file and destination file. It is a simple copy program. I was reading about open process: --open process appName [for [text|binary] {read | write | update | neither}] I can open a process and execute the above mentioned external program but I am not able to supply the arguments. Is it possible using open process to execute a program with arguments and if it is would it be better to use the shell command or open process? I know if you use a shell command it takes control until it is done and open process might run in the background which I do not really need that I know of in this instance. JB From sundown at pacifier.com Sat Sep 28 10:28:18 2019 From: sundown at pacifier.com (-=>JB<=-) Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2019 07:28:18 -0700 Subject: open process In-Reply-To: <242BA3AD-5F82-4EBE-9F45-8AE776560DF1@pacifier.com> References: <242BA3AD-5F82-4EBE-9F45-8AE776560DF1@pacifier.com> Message-ID: I provided the wrong path in the code by setting the default folder to desktop but the code has the correct path and do not set defaultFolder using desktop. The question is still the same about supplying the arguments to the executable. JB > On Sep 28, 2019, at 7:05 AM, JB via use-livecode wrote: > > In a shell command I can execute a external program > using the following code: > > on mouseUp > set the defaultFolder to desktop > put ?myPic.jpg" into tFILE1 > put ?myPic copy.jpg" into tFILE2 > put shell( "./copy" && quote & tFILE1 & quote && quote & tFILE2 & quote) into pData > answer question pData ?will be success or failed > end mouseUp > > The code above will execute a program that has two arguments which are > the source file and destination file. It is a simple copy program. > > I was reading about open process: > --open process appName [for [text|binary] {read | write | update | neither}] > > I can open a process and execute the above mentioned external program > but I am not able to supply the arguments. > > Is it possible using open process to execute a program with arguments > and if it is would it be better to use the shell command or open process? > > I know if you use a shell command it takes control until it is done and > open process might run in the background which I do not really need > that I know of in this instance. > > JB > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at researchware.com Sat Sep 28 10:46:31 2019 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2019 10:46:31 -0400 Subject: open process In-Reply-To: <242BA3AD-5F82-4EBE-9F45-8AE776560DF1@pacifier.com> References: <242BA3AD-5F82-4EBE-9F45-8AE776560DF1@pacifier.com> Message-ID: <1e3ae72c-87c1-5dc8-8723-592fb348d2f9@researchware.com> passing information (arguments, commands, etc.) to another program using "open process" requires that the other program has a mechanism to listen to interprocess messages. Most programs designed to accept a set of command-line parameters do not have listeners for inter process communication (IPC), so the general answer to your question is you probably can not provide arguments via open process to the copy command. On 9/28/2019 10:05 AM, JB via use-livecode wrote: > In a shell command I can execute a external program > using the following code: > > on mouseUp > set the defaultFolder to desktop > put ?myPic.jpg" into tFILE1 > put ?myPic copy.jpg" into tFILE2 > put shell( "./copy" && quote & tFILE1 & quote && quote & tFILE2 & quote) into pData > answer question pData ?will be success or failed > end mouseUp > > The code above will execute a program that has two arguments which are > the source file and destination file. It is a simple copy program. > > I was reading about open process: > --open process appName [for [text|binary] {read | write | update | neither}] > > I can open a process and execute the above mentioned external program > but I am not able to supply the arguments. > > Is it possible using open process to execute a program with arguments > and if it is would it be better to use the shell command or open process? > > I know if you use a shell command it takes control until it is done and > open process might run in the background which I do not really need > that I know of in this instance. > > JB > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From sundown at pacifier.com Sat Sep 28 10:47:29 2019 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2019 07:47:29 -0700 Subject: open process In-Reply-To: <1e3ae72c-87c1-5dc8-8723-592fb348d2f9@researchware.com> References: <242BA3AD-5F82-4EBE-9F45-8AE776560DF1@pacifier.com> <1e3ae72c-87c1-5dc8-8723-592fb348d2f9@researchware.com> Message-ID: <9DBE6366-8E31-4FAD-B655-EA5F3F3A5990@pacifier.com> Thank you very much! That is what I suspected but I wanted to have someone clarify it for me. thanks again, JB > On Sep 28, 2019, at 7:46 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > > passing information (arguments, commands, etc.) to another program using "open process" requires that the other program has a mechanism to listen to interprocess messages. Most programs designed to accept a set of command-line parameters do not have listeners for inter process communication (IPC), so the general answer to your question is you probably can not provide arguments via open process to the copy command. > > > On 9/28/2019 10:05 AM, JB via use-livecode wrote: >> In a shell command I can execute a external program >> using the following code: >> >> on mouseUp >> set the defaultFolder to desktop >> put ?myPic.jpg" into tFILE1 >> put ?myPic copy.jpg" into tFILE2 >> put shell( "./copy" && quote & tFILE1 & quote && quote & tFILE2 & quote) into pData >> answer question pData ?will be success or failed >> end mouseUp >> >> The code above will execute a program that has two arguments which are >> the source file and destination file. It is a simple copy program. >> >> I was reading about open process: >> --open process appName [for [text|binary] {read | write | update | neither}] >> >> I can open a process and execute the above mentioned external program >> but I am not able to supply the arguments. >> >> Is it possible using open process to execute a program with arguments >> and if it is would it be better to use the shell command or open process? >> >> I know if you use a shell command it takes control until it is done and >> open process might run in the background which I do not really need >> that I know of in this instance. >> >> JB >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat Sep 28 11:00:32 2019 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2019 10:00:32 -0500 Subject: Stacks and Sub Stacks In-Reply-To: <36FF5C15-8C83-4BF1-86BC-3A35B230B0C6@hindu.org> References: <1472164549.8533974.1569419685020@mail.yahoo.com> <64A03C4F-B587-4560-A55C-EA00AC6FCBDE@hindu.org> <3f989483-58ac-5447-aba6-3f621019686b@pdslabs.net> <36FF5C15-8C83-4BF1-86BC-3A35B230B0C6@hindu.org> Message-ID: <16d78633a80.27a5.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Is the handler in a script-only stack? Maybe the editor doesn't or can't scan those. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On September 27, 2019 10:31:22 PM Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode wrote: > Thanks for answers of "how to get a list of all stacks?" > > > put revLoadedStacks() > put the mainstack > stacksinuse > > > all good! But, they return different results....very interesting... > stackInUse does not include some stacks reported by "revLoaderStacks()" > both lists have their use cases... but > > > the mainstacks return all stacks, including those in use by the Rev/IDE... > less useful > > > with stacks more and more use as "views" in an MCV architecture. They do > not appear in "stackInUse" but the DO appear in revLoaderStack(). That is > a useful distinction. > > > ----------- > > > No one answers the other question, so I will ask it here, as it goes to > Message Hierarchy > > > "put gotSomeFruit() into tBanana" > > > where " gotSomeFruit ()" is among the functions/handlers is found > among "stackInUse". ie. You DO get an returned result from the function. > > > But, sometimes, in the Script Editor, "Get Definition" is dimmed. > > > Is this a known bug? > > > BR > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dsc at swcp.com Sat Sep 28 13:24:21 2019 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott Consulting) Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2019 11:24:21 -0600 Subject: open process In-Reply-To: <242BA3AD-5F82-4EBE-9F45-8AE776560DF1@pacifier.com> References: <242BA3AD-5F82-4EBE-9F45-8AE776560DF1@pacifier.com> Message-ID: <9F37E4CC-E2D6-48C4-8DB0-46CDC9D7A9BC@swcp.com> This works for me, LC 9.5 Mac. on mouseup set the cursor to watch put "netstat -i" into p put p -- flash open process p for read wait 1 seconds with messages read from process p until empty close process p put it end mouseup > On Sep 28, 2019, at 8:05 AM, JB via use-livecode wrote: > > In a shell command I can execute a external program > using the following code: > > on mouseUp > set the defaultFolder to desktop > put ?myPic.jpg" into tFILE1 > put ?myPic copy.jpg" into tFILE2 > put shell( "./copy" && quote & tFILE1 & quote && quote & tFILE2 & quote) into pData > answer question pData ?will be success or failed > end mouseUp > > The code above will execute a program that has two arguments which are > the source file and destination file. It is a simple copy program. > > I was reading about open process: > --open process appName [for [text|binary] {read | write | update | neither}] > > I can open a process and execute the above mentioned external program > but I am not able to supply the arguments. > > Is it possible using open process to execute a program with arguments > and if it is would it be better to use the shell command or open process? > > I know if you use a shell command it takes control until it is done and > open process might run in the background which I do not really need > that I know of in this instance. > > JB > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From sundown at pacifier.com Sat Sep 28 13:57:27 2019 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2019 10:57:27 -0700 Subject: open process In-Reply-To: <9F37E4CC-E2D6-48C4-8DB0-46CDC9D7A9BC@swcp.com> References: <242BA3AD-5F82-4EBE-9F45-8AE776560DF1@pacifier.com> <9F37E4CC-E2D6-48C4-8DB0-46CDC9D7A9BC@swcp.com> Message-ID: <0D7B28A1-843D-4F09-806E-8C30FC754AD4@pacifier.com> It works for me too, Thanks Name Mtu Network Address Ipkts Ierrs Opkts Oerrs Coll lo0 16384 82239 0 82239 0 0 lo0 16384 localhost ::1 82239 - 82239 - - lo0 16384 127 localhost 82239 - 82239 - - lo0 16384 localhost fe80:1::1 82239 - 82239 - - gif0* 1280 0 0 0 0 0 stf0* 1280 0 0 0 0 0 en0 1500 34:15:9e:26:fa:60 1633080 0 1207358 0 0 en0 1500 jb.local fe80:4::3615:9eff 1633080 - 1207358 - - en0 1500 192.168.0 192.168.0.2 1633080 - 1207358 - - en1 1500 7c:6d:62:a4:64:ab 0 0 0 0 0 fw0 4078 34:15:9e:ff:fe:26:fa:60 0 0 0 0 0 JB > On Sep 28, 2019, at 10:24 AM, Dar Scott Consulting via use-livecode wrote: > > This works for me, LC 9.5 Mac. > > on mouseup > set the cursor to watch > put "netstat -i" into p > put p -- flash > open process p for read > wait 1 seconds with messages > read from process p until empty > close process p > put it > end mouseup > > >> On Sep 28, 2019, at 8:05 AM, JB via use-livecode wrote: >> >> In a shell command I can execute a external program >> using the following code: >> >> on mouseUp >> set the defaultFolder to desktop >> put ?myPic.jpg" into tFILE1 >> put ?myPic copy.jpg" into tFILE2 >> put shell( "./copy" && quote & tFILE1 & quote && quote & tFILE2 & quote) into pData >> answer question pData ?will be success or failed >> end mouseUp >> >> The code above will execute a program that has two arguments which are >> the source file and destination file. It is a simple copy program. >> >> I was reading about open process: >> --open process appName [for [text|binary] {read | write | update | neither}] >> >> I can open a process and execute the above mentioned external program >> but I am not able to supply the arguments. >> >> Is it possible using open process to execute a program with arguments >> and if it is would it be better to use the shell command or open process? >> >> I know if you use a shell command it takes control until it is done and >> open process might run in the background which I do not really need >> that I know of in this instance. >> >> JB >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dsc at swcp.com Sat Sep 28 14:25:24 2019 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott Consulting) Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2019 12:25:24 -0600 Subject: open process In-Reply-To: <0D7B28A1-843D-4F09-806E-8C30FC754AD4@pacifier.com> References: <242BA3AD-5F82-4EBE-9F45-8AE776560DF1@pacifier.com> <9F37E4CC-E2D6-48C4-8DB0-46CDC9D7A9BC@swcp.com> <0D7B28A1-843D-4F09-806E-8C30FC754AD4@pacifier.com> Message-ID: <82335CF8-FA96-4B3F-8502-9DDE72D82B09@swcp.com> I'm glad that was helpful. For me, when using open process as a background shell is knowing when things are done. In my example, I can wait for non-empty read results and then wait for a few empty read results. There is probably a better way. > On Sep 28, 2019, at 11:57 AM, JB via use-livecode wrote: > > It works for me too, Thanks > > Name Mtu Network Address Ipkts Ierrs Opkts Oerrs Coll > lo0 16384 82239 0 82239 0 0 > lo0 16384 localhost ::1 82239 - 82239 - - > lo0 16384 127 localhost 82239 - 82239 - - > lo0 16384 localhost fe80:1::1 82239 - 82239 - - > gif0* 1280 0 0 0 0 0 > stf0* 1280 0 0 0 0 0 > en0 1500 34:15:9e:26:fa:60 1633080 0 1207358 0 0 > en0 1500 jb.local fe80:4::3615:9eff 1633080 - 1207358 - - > en0 1500 192.168.0 192.168.0.2 1633080 - 1207358 - - > en1 1500 7c:6d:62:a4:64:ab 0 0 0 0 0 > fw0 4078 34:15:9e:ff:fe:26:fa:60 0 0 0 0 0 > > > JB > >> On Sep 28, 2019, at 10:24 AM, Dar Scott Consulting via use-livecode wrote: >> >> This works for me, LC 9.5 Mac. >> >> on mouseup >> set the cursor to watch >> put "netstat -i" into p >> put p -- flash >> open process p for read >> wait 1 seconds with messages >> read from process p until empty >> close process p >> put it >> end mouseup >> >> >>> On Sep 28, 2019, at 8:05 AM, JB via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> In a shell command I can execute a external program >>> using the following code: >>> >>> on mouseUp >>> set the defaultFolder to desktop >>> put ?myPic.jpg" into tFILE1 >>> put ?myPic copy.jpg" into tFILE2 >>> put shell( "./copy" && quote & tFILE1 & quote && quote & tFILE2 & quote) into pData >>> answer question pData ?will be success or failed >>> end mouseUp >>> >>> The code above will execute a program that has two arguments which are >>> the source file and destination file. It is a simple copy program. >>> >>> I was reading about open process: >>> --open process appName [for [text|binary] {read | write | update | neither}] >>> >>> I can open a process and execute the above mentioned external program >>> but I am not able to supply the arguments. >>> >>> Is it possible using open process to execute a program with arguments >>> and if it is would it be better to use the shell command or open process? >>> >>> I know if you use a shell command it takes control until it is done and >>> open process might run in the background which I do not really need >>> that I know of in this instance. >>> >>> JB >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From patrick.roza at gmail.com Sat Sep 28 14:35:53 2019 From: patrick.roza at gmail.com (Patrick Roza) Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2019 14:35:53 -0400 Subject: Python to LiveCode Message-ID: I would like to take the python code and convert it to LiveCode. I know there is a cheat sheet but it is limited. 1. Has anybody attempted this and what worked and didn't work? 2. Can someone point out the problems moving from one programming language to LiveCode? Everyone on the list has been great and thank all of you. Patrick, From sundown at pacifier.com Sat Sep 28 14:33:35 2019 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2019 11:33:35 -0700 Subject: open process In-Reply-To: <82335CF8-FA96-4B3F-8502-9DDE72D82B09@swcp.com> References: <242BA3AD-5F82-4EBE-9F45-8AE776560DF1@pacifier.com> <9F37E4CC-E2D6-48C4-8DB0-46CDC9D7A9BC@swcp.com> <0D7B28A1-843D-4F09-806E-8C30FC754AD4@pacifier.com> <82335CF8-FA96-4B3F-8502-9DDE72D82B09@swcp.com> Message-ID: Okay, thank you! JB > On Sep 28, 2019, at 11:25 AM, Dar Scott Consulting via use-livecode wrote: > > I'm glad that was helpful. For me, when using open process as a background shell is knowing when things are done. In my example, I can wait for non-empty read results and then wait for a few empty read results. There is probably a better way. > >> On Sep 28, 2019, at 11:57 AM, JB via use-livecode wrote: >> >> It works for me too, Thanks >> >> Name Mtu Network Address Ipkts Ierrs Opkts Oerrs Coll >> lo0 16384 82239 0 82239 0 0 >> lo0 16384 localhost ::1 82239 - 82239 - - >> lo0 16384 127 localhost 82239 - 82239 - - >> lo0 16384 localhost fe80:1::1 82239 - 82239 - - >> gif0* 1280 0 0 0 0 0 >> stf0* 1280 0 0 0 0 0 >> en0 1500 34:15:9e:26:fa:60 1633080 0 1207358 0 0 >> en0 1500 jb.local fe80:4::3615:9eff 1633080 - 1207358 - - >> en0 1500 192.168.0 192.168.0.2 1633080 - 1207358 - - >> en1 1500 7c:6d:62:a4:64:ab 0 0 0 0 0 >> fw0 4078 34:15:9e:ff:fe:26:fa:60 0 0 0 0 0 >> >> >> JB >> >>> On Sep 28, 2019, at 10:24 AM, Dar Scott Consulting via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> This works for me, LC 9.5 Mac. >>> >>> on mouseup >>> set the cursor to watch >>> put "netstat -i" into p >>> put p -- flash >>> open process p for read >>> wait 1 seconds with messages >>> read from process p until empty >>> close process p >>> put it >>> end mouseup >>> >>> >>>> On Sep 28, 2019, at 8:05 AM, JB via use-livecode wrote: >>>> >>>> In a shell command I can execute a external program >>>> using the following code: >>>> >>>> on mouseUp >>>> set the defaultFolder to desktop >>>> put ?myPic.jpg" into tFILE1 >>>> put ?myPic copy.jpg" into tFILE2 >>>> put shell( "./copy" && quote & tFILE1 & quote && quote & tFILE2 & quote) into pData >>>> answer question pData ?will be success or failed >>>> end mouseUp >>>> >>>> The code above will execute a program that has two arguments which are >>>> the source file and destination file. It is a simple copy program. >>>> >>>> I was reading about open process: >>>> --open process appName [for [text|binary] {read | write | update | neither}] >>>> >>>> I can open a process and execute the above mentioned external program >>>> but I am not able to supply the arguments. >>>> >>>> Is it possible using open process to execute a program with arguments >>>> and if it is would it be better to use the shell command or open process? >>>> >>>> I know if you use a shell command it takes control until it is done and >>>> open process might run in the background which I do not really need >>>> that I know of in this instance. >>>> >>>> JB >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From kee.nethery at elloco.com Sat Sep 28 23:08:58 2019 From: kee.nethery at elloco.com (kee nethery) Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2019 20:08:58 -0700 Subject: Python to LiveCode In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8A6D8686-F068-4FC3-980C-F067962ED12F@elloco.com> I have converted from language to language and what I did initially was to comment what every section of code did and how it did it (algorithms and logic). The idea was that I should be able to delete the initial code and reproduce it using the comments. Then take the comments and write the code in the destination language. Yes you might organize it differently but my goal was to get it completely functional so that it could pass the existing unit tests on the original source. Once the code is functional, I refactored it to make it more in line with the way the destination code is typically structured. That?s what I did. Tedious but straightforward and successful. Kee Nethery > On Sep 28, 2019, at 11:35 AM, Patrick Roza via use-livecode wrote: > > I would like to take the python code and convert it to LiveCode. I know > there is a cheat sheet but it is limited. > > 1. Has anybody attempted this and what worked and didn't work? > > 2. Can someone point out the problems moving from one programming language > to LiveCode? > > Everyone on the list has been great and thank all of you. > > Patrick, > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From quizzicaltimes20 at gmail.com Sun Sep 29 15:46:22 2019 From: quizzicaltimes20 at gmail.com (Tony Trivia) Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2019 14:46:22 -0500 Subject: Mac Codesigning stops working. (revSecurity.dylib) Message-ID: Hi all. I had the whole Mac codesigning thing under control, notarization, all that. Was successfully signing, notarizing and distributing (as third party) my MacOS app as recently as a week ago. But about two days, AppWrapper 3 started reporting "Failed to sign" blaming the subcomponent revSecurity.dylib. App Wrapper diagnosis says "code object is not signed at all in architectur: x86_64. My build is in LC 9.5 using 64-bit. I built a minimalist stack with one "go url" button to trigger inclusion of revSecurity and TSnet. Attempts to sign that minimal stack as a Mac standalone gets the same errors. Codesigning via Terminal also fails. Anyone else have this problem? Suggestions? Thanks! TT From jjs at krutt.org Sun Sep 29 15:50:43 2019 From: jjs at krutt.org (JJS) Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2019 21:50:43 +0200 Subject: Mac Codesigning stops working. (revSecurity.dylib) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: this will help you for signing in and outside the appstore http://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/1122100-codesigning-and-notarizing-your-lc-standalone-for-distribution-outside-the-mac-appstore Op 29-9-2019 om 21:46 schreef Tony Trivia via use-livecode: > Hi all. > > I had the whole Mac codesigning thing under control, notarization, all > that. Was successfully signing, notarizing and distributing (as third > party) my MacOS app as recently as a week ago. But about two days, > AppWrapper 3 started reporting "Failed to sign" blaming the subcomponent > revSecurity.dylib. App Wrapper diagnosis says "code object is not signed > at all in architectur: x86_64. > > My build is in LC 9.5 using 64-bit. > > I built a minimalist stack with one "go url" button to trigger inclusion of > revSecurity and TSnet. Attempts to sign that minimal stack as a Mac > standalone gets the same errors. > > Codesigning via Terminal also fails. > > Anyone else have this problem? Suggestions? > > Thanks! > TT > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From kee.nethery at elloco.com Sun Sep 29 15:58:50 2019 From: kee.nethery at elloco.com (Kee Nethery) Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2019 12:58:50 -0700 Subject: Mac Codesigning stops working. (revSecurity.dylib) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D3183BA-6A66-48C4-A3D1-695E9FDB53BE@elloco.com> My lesson on app signing isn?t automated, it has the terminal commands detailed. The reason I do that is because it?s a moving target. Things change as the codesign process updates. If my lesson steps fail, you?ll probably see the exact reason as an error message. That should be the clue. Kee Nethery > On Sep 29, 2019, at 12:46 PM, Tony Trivia via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi all. > > I had the whole Mac codesigning thing under control, notarization, all > that. Was successfully signing, notarizing and distributing (as third > party) my MacOS app as recently as a week ago. But about two days, > AppWrapper 3 started reporting "Failed to sign" blaming the subcomponent > revSecurity.dylib. App Wrapper diagnosis says "code object is not signed > at all in architectur: x86_64. > > My build is in LC 9.5 using 64-bit. > > I built a minimalist stack with one "go url" button to trigger inclusion of > revSecurity and TSnet. Attempts to sign that minimal stack as a Mac > standalone gets the same errors. > > Codesigning via Terminal also fails. > > Anyone else have this problem? Suggestions? > > Thanks! > TT > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Sun Sep 29 17:55:56 2019 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe) Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2019 23:55:56 +0200 Subject: Mac Codesigning stops working. (revSecurity.dylib) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5406A63A-6185-4D53-8BDF-BED2485E70B7@m-r-d.de> Hi Tony, i just did a test with a small app like your test app and AppWrapper and run into a similar problem. I then tried from shell and i got also an error. The error message contained among other text the following "Agreeing to the Xcode/iOS license requires admin privileges, please run ?sudo xcodebuild -license? and then retry this command." I ran sudo xcodebuild -license in terminal and followed the instructions and agreed the license. After that i was able to codesgin my test app in AppWrapper again. Regards, Matthias Matthias Rebbe free tools for Livecoders: InstaMaker WinSignMaker Mac > Am 29.09.2019 um 21:46 schrieb Tony Trivia via use-livecode >: > > Hi all. > > I had the whole Mac codesigning thing under control, notarization, all > that. Was successfully signing, notarizing and distributing (as third > party) my MacOS app as recently as a week ago. But about two days, > AppWrapper 3 started reporting "Failed to sign" blaming the subcomponent > revSecurity.dylib. App Wrapper diagnosis says "code object is not signed > at all in architectur: x86_64. > > My build is in LC 9.5 using 64-bit. > > I built a minimalist stack with one "go url" button to trigger inclusion of > revSecurity and TSnet. Attempts to sign that minimal stack as a Mac > standalone gets the same errors. > > Codesigning via Terminal also fails. > > Anyone else have this problem? Suggestions? > > Thanks! > TT > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From tom at makeshyft.com Mon Sep 30 11:08:04 2019 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2019 11:08:04 -0400 Subject: Mac Codesigning stops working. (revSecurity.dylib) In-Reply-To: <5406A63A-6185-4D53-8BDF-BED2485E70B7@m-r-d.de> References: <5406A63A-6185-4D53-8BDF-BED2485E70B7@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: Matthias Rebbe you rock! On Sun, Sep 29, 2019 at 5:56 PM Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hi Tony, > > i just did a test with a small app like your test app and AppWrapper and > run into a similar problem. > I then tried from shell and i got also an error. > > The error message contained among other text the following > "Agreeing to the Xcode/iOS license requires admin privileges, please run > ?sudo xcodebuild -license? and then retry this command." > > I ran > sudo xcodebuild -license > in terminal and followed the instructions and agreed the license. > > After that i was able to codesgin my test app in AppWrapper again. > > Regards, > > Matthias > > Matthias Rebbe > > free tools for Livecoders: > InstaMaker > WinSignMaker Mac > > > Am 29.09.2019 um 21:46 schrieb Tony Trivia via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >: > > > > Hi all. > > > > I had the whole Mac codesigning thing under control, notarization, all > > that. Was successfully signing, notarizing and distributing (as third > > party) my MacOS app as recently as a week ago. But about two days, > > AppWrapper 3 started reporting "Failed to sign" blaming the subcomponent > > revSecurity.dylib. App Wrapper diagnosis says "code object is not signed > > at all in architectur: x86_64. > > > > My build is in LC 9.5 using 64-bit. > > > > I built a minimalist stack with one "go url" button to trigger inclusion > of > > revSecurity and TSnet. Attempts to sign that minimal stack as a Mac > > standalone gets the same errors. > > > > Codesigning via Terminal also fails. > > > > Anyone else have this problem? Suggestions? > > > > Thanks! > > TT > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Tom Glod Founder & Developer MakeShyft R.D.A (www.makeshyft.com) Office:226-706-9339 Mobile:226-706-9793 From dan at clearvisiontech.com Mon Sep 30 12:13:25 2019 From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2019 16:13:25 +0000 Subject: So... Xcode, macOS and Livecode... where are we now? Message-ID: <1465BB26-E58E-4CE7-84A4-137B6709968E@clearvisiontech.com> Good Morning! I have LiveCode 9.5.0 and MacOS 10.14.6. What version of Xcode do I need for iOS and macOS development? That's in advance! -Dan From e.beugelaar at me.com Mon Sep 30 12:48:48 2019 From: e.beugelaar at me.com (Erik Beugelaar) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2019 18:48:48 +0200 Subject: So... Xcode, macOS and Livecode... where are we now? In-Reply-To: <1465BB26-E58E-4CE7-84A4-137B6709968E@clearvisiontech.com> References: <1465BB26-E58E-4CE7-84A4-137B6709968E@clearvisiontech.com> Message-ID: <94786B00-5CDC-407F-B7AA-655397DD1E39@me.com> Dan, I assume Xcode 10.2.1 according https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xcode#Xcode_7.0_-_9.x_.28since_Free_On-Device_Development.29 Cheers, Erik ?On 30/09/2019, 18:14, "use-livecode on behalf of Dan Friedman via use-livecode" wrote: Good Morning! I have LiveCode 9.5.0 and MacOS 10.14.6. What version of Xcode do I need for iOS and macOS development? That's in advance! -Dan _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From merakosp at gmail.com Mon Sep 30 14:06:18 2019 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2019 21:06:18 +0300 Subject: So... Xcode, macOS and Livecode... where are we now? In-Reply-To: <94786B00-5CDC-407F-B7AA-655397DD1E39@me.com> References: <1465BB26-E58E-4CE7-84A4-137B6709968E@clearvisiontech.com> <94786B00-5CDC-407F-B7AA-655397DD1E39@me.com> Message-ID: Hello all, For this combination you need Xcode 10.1. Kind regards, Panos -- On Mon, Sep 30, 2019, 19:49 Erik Beugelaar via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Dan, I assume Xcode 10.2.1 according > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xcode#Xcode_7.0_-_9.x_.28since_Free_On-Device_Development.29 > > Cheers, Erik > > ?On 30/09/2019, 18:14, "use-livecode on behalf of Dan Friedman via > use-livecode" use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > Good Morning! I have LiveCode 9.5.0 and MacOS 10.14.6. What > version of Xcode do I need for iOS and macOS development? > > That's in advance! > -Dan > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From quizzicaltimes20 at gmail.com Mon Sep 30 14:34:05 2019 From: quizzicaltimes20 at gmail.com (Tony Trivia) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2019 13:34:05 -0500 Subject: Mac Codesigning stops working. (revSecurity.dylib) In-Reply-To: References: <5406A63A-6185-4D53-8BDF-BED2485E70B7@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: Another brilliant bit of tech-detective work by Matthias. Thank you!!! Tony On Mon, Sep 30, 2019 at 10:09 AM Tom Glod via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Matthias Rebbe you rock! > > On Sun, Sep 29, 2019 at 5:56 PM Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > Hi Tony, > > > > i just did a test with a small app like your test app and AppWrapper and > > run into a similar problem. > > I then tried from shell and i got also an error. > > > > The error message contained among other text the following > > "Agreeing to the Xcode/iOS license requires admin privileges, please run > > ?sudo xcodebuild -license? and then retry this command." > > > > I ran > > sudo xcodebuild -license > > in terminal and followed the instructions and agreed the license. > > > > After that i was able to codesgin my test app in AppWrapper again. > > > > Regards, > > > > Matthias > > > > Matthias Rebbe > > > > free tools for Livecoders: > > InstaMaker > > WinSignMaker Mac > > > > > Am 29.09.2019 um 21:46 schrieb Tony Trivia via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >: > > > > > > Hi all. > > > > > > I had the whole Mac codesigning thing under control, notarization, all > > > that. Was successfully signing, notarizing and distributing (as third > > > party) my MacOS app as recently as a week ago. But about two days, > > > AppWrapper 3 started reporting "Failed to sign" blaming the > subcomponent > > > revSecurity.dylib. App Wrapper diagnosis says "code object is not > signed > > > at all in architectur: x86_64. > > > > > > My build is in LC 9.5 using 64-bit. > > > > > > I built a minimalist stack with one "go url" button to trigger > inclusion > > of > > > revSecurity and TSnet. Attempts to sign that minimal stack as a Mac > > > standalone gets the same errors. > > > > > > Codesigning via Terminal also fails. > > > > > > Anyone else have this problem? Suggestions? > > > > > > Thanks! > > > TT > > > _______________________________________________ > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > -- > Tom Glod > Founder & Developer > MakeShyft R.D.A (www.makeshyft.com) > Office:226-706-9339 > Mobile:226-706-9793 > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From panos.merakos at livecode.com Mon Sep 30 16:35:48 2019 From: panos.merakos at livecode.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2019 23:35:48 +0300 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 196 Message-ID: Hi all, Read about new developments in LiveCode open source and the open source community in today's edition of the "This Week in LiveCode" newsletter! Read issue #196 here: http://bit.ly/2oJcOAX This is a weekly newsletter about LiveCode, focussing on what's been going on in and around the open source project. New issues will be released weekly on Mondays. We have a dedicated mailing list that will deliver each issue directly to you e-mail, so you don't miss any! If you have anything you'd like mentioned (a project, a discussion somewhere, an upcoming event) then please get in touch. -- Panagiotis Merakos LiveCode Software Developer Everyone Can Create Apps From e.beugelaar at me.com Mon Sep 30 16:43:51 2019 From: e.beugelaar at me.com (Erik Beugelaar) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2019 22:43:51 +0200 Subject: So... Xcode, macOS and Livecode... where are we now? In-Reply-To: References: <1465BB26-E58E-4CE7-84A4-137B6709968E@clearvisiontech.com> <94786B00-5CDC-407F-B7AA-655397DD1E39@me.com> Message-ID: <8C55A1A7-25D9-4044-9C0F-D58016DE72DD@me.com> Hello Panos, Maybe an idea to update the list on https://livecode.com/docs/9-5-0/faq/faq/ supporting 10.14.x macOS versions? Regards, Erik From: panagiotis merakos Date: Monday, 30 September 2019 at 20:06 To: How to use LiveCode Cc: Erik Beugelaar Subject: Re: So... Xcode, macOS and Livecode... where are we now? Hello all, For this combination you need Xcode 10.1. Kind regards, Panos -- On Mon, Sep 30, 2019, 19:49 Erik Beugelaar via use-livecode wrote: Dan, I assume Xcode 10.2.1 according https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xcode#Xcode_7.0_-_9.x_.28since_Free_On-Device_Development.29 Cheers, Erik ?On 30/09/2019, 18:14, "use-livecode on behalf of Dan Friedman via use-livecode" wrote: Good Morning! I have LiveCode 9.5.0 and MacOS 10.14.6. What version of Xcode do I need for iOS and macOS development? That's in advance! -Dan _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From merakosp at gmail.com Mon Sep 30 16:52:57 2019 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2019 23:52:57 +0300 Subject: So... Xcode, macOS and Livecode... where are we now? In-Reply-To: <8C55A1A7-25D9-4044-9C0F-D58016DE72DD@me.com> References: <1465BB26-E58E-4CE7-84A4-137B6709968E@clearvisiontech.com> <94786B00-5CDC-407F-B7AA-655397DD1E39@me.com> <8C55A1A7-25D9-4044-9C0F-D58016DE72DD@me.com> Message-ID: Hello Erik, Sure :) For 10.14.x MacOS version, it applies the same: LiveCode 9.5.0 / Xcode 10.1 / Mac OS 10.14.x / iOS 12.1 Note this will change in the next LC release, as we are now adding support for building with Xcode 11.1 / iOS 13.1 SDK BTW the entries for LC 9.5.0 and Xcode 10.1 should say "Mac OS 10.13.6+" instead of "Mac OS 10.13.4+". Kind regards, Panos -- On Mon, 30 Sep 2019 at 23:43, Erik Beugelaar wrote: > Hello Panos, > > Maybe an idea to update the list on > https://livecode.com/docs/9-5-0/faq/faq/ supporting 10.14.x macOS > versions? > > Regards, > > Erik > > > > *From: *panagiotis merakos > *Date: *Monday, 30 September 2019 at 20:06 > *To: *How to use LiveCode > *Cc: *Erik Beugelaar > *Subject: *Re: So... Xcode, macOS and Livecode... where are we now? > > > > Hello all, > > > > For this combination you need Xcode 10.1. > > > > Kind regards, > > Panos > > -- > > > > On Mon, Sep 30, 2019, 19:49 Erik Beugelaar via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > Dan, I assume Xcode 10.2.1 according > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xcode#Xcode_7.0_-_9.x_.28since_Free_On-Device_Development.29 > > Cheers, Erik > > ?On 30/09/2019, 18:14, "use-livecode on behalf of Dan Friedman via > use-livecode" use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > Good Morning! I have LiveCode 9.5.0 and MacOS 10.14.6. What > version of Xcode do I need for iOS and macOS development? > > That's in advance! > -Dan > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >