From hh at hyperhh.de Mon May 1 02:05:53 2017 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Mon, 1 May 2017 08:05:53 +0200 Subject: Documentation on Accelerated Rendering Message-ID: <31FBC9FC-59B9-44F2-B0F9-0CD6A50BBEB1@hyperhh.de> Did you already try the following? Layer mode: Use 8.1.4. Before that and in 9-dp6 exact layering is broken. The combination: set the acceleratedRendering to false set the paintcompression to RLE set the alwaysbuffer of to true From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon May 1 03:32:11 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 01 May 2017 02:32:11 -0500 Subject: Documentation on Accelerated Rendering In-Reply-To: References: <3A66C968-1180-46D8-91A3-DDFD6A11F534@hindu.org> <6bc860fb-0167-4aca-6226-8763f2008dfe@hyperactivesw.com> <5984B89B-D873-41E7-95B8-812DBFCF6B3A@hindu.org> Message-ID: <15bc2ec8078.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> My mistake was resetting the layermode after a drop. It does have to be set after object creation but that should be the only time it's messed with. Dragging was too jerky without acceleratedRendering, so I think that has to remain. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On April 30, 2017 8:48:42 PM Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode wrote: > Never mind > > Jacque > > you already have this in our script > > [snip] set the borderwidth of the last image to "4" > set the topcolor of the last image to tRGB > set the layermode of the last image to "dynamic" -- jg: required for smooth > movment on slower devices > end repeat > > and we are setting the acceleratedRending on in preopenCard and false on > close card > > Still no joy on android. > > > On 4/30/17, 3:39 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami > via use-livecode" use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > OK, I'm off to test now with setting the layer mode of the tiles, but it > takes *forever* for the puzzle to generated on my old Nexus5. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon May 1 03:44:31 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 01 May 2017 02:44:31 -0500 Subject: Documentation on Accelerated Rendering In-Reply-To: <31FBC9FC-59B9-44F2-B0F9-0CD6A50BBEB1@hyperhh.de> References: <31FBC9FC-59B9-44F2-B0F9-0CD6A50BBEB1@hyperhh.de> Message-ID: <15bc2f7cb18.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Layering was definitely broken, that's for sure. But in this case we're referring to the layermode of a draggable object. I haven't worked much with his latest version yet, when I was doing it I was using fields instead of images. But since the images are created on the fly from within LC I assume they'd be RLE. Aren't all images buffered by default? I thought so but maybe not. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On May 1, 2017 1:07:52 AM hh via use-livecode wrote: > Did you already try the following? > > Layer mode: > Use 8.1.4. Before that and in 9-dp6 exact layering is broken. > > The combination: > set the acceleratedRendering to false > set the paintcompression to RLE > set the alwaysbuffer of to true > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dvglasgow at gmail.com Mon May 1 05:46:56 2017 From: dvglasgow at gmail.com (David V Glasgow) Date: Mon, 1 May 2017 10:46:56 +0100 Subject: Android & LC advice In-Reply-To: <96d0a279-b62b-3887-2641-c9de17bfcf26@fourthworld.com> References: <96d0a279-b62b-3887-2641-c9de17bfcf26@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Good point Richard, I should have said. Nothing I would expect to be particularly demanding. Mostly shunting text about on screen, timing and recording responses, and very modest data exchange < = 1000 characters. > On 30 Apr 2017, at 2:49 pm, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > David V Glasgow wrote: > > > If you could specify a single device for end users, which would you > > choose? Would the need to use 3 / 4G change the recommendation? > > What will the user be expected to do with it? > > > > Because of the cost issue, I am assuming that Android will be the > > most appropriate platform. > > If cost were the only issue, Android would no doubt be the better choice by virtue of its vastly more diverse hardware ecosystem. > > But again, it boils down to what the user is expected to do with it. For infrequent lightweight tasks it probably doesn't matter much, but if the user will be using the device a lot it may matter whether they already have deep experience with iOS or Android. The two OSes are different enough that I see users of each stumble and become frustrated when they try to use the other. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From panos.merakos at livecode.com Mon May 1 06:13:40 2017 From: panos.merakos at livecode.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Mon, 1 May 2017 11:13:40 +0100 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 80 Message-ID: Hi all, Read about new developments in LiveCode open source and the open source community in today's edition of the "This Week in LiveCode" newsletter! Read issue #80 here: https://goo.gl/v80as0 This is a weekly newsletter about LiveCode, focussing on what's been going on in and around the open source project. New issues will be released weekly on Mondays. We have a dedicated mailing list that will deliver each issue directly to you e-mail, so you don't miss any! If you have anything you'd like mentioned (a project, a discussion somewhere, an upcoming event) then please get in touch. -- Panagiotis Merakos LiveCode Software Developer Everyone Can Create Apps From roland.huettmann at gmail.com Mon May 1 06:23:23 2017 From: roland.huettmann at gmail.com (Roland Huettmann) Date: Mon, 1 May 2017 12:23:23 +0200 Subject: LiveCode.org Message-ID: Referencing: Community Coding Standards, Naming Conventions, Best Practice Richard Gaskin wrote:"These are good questions"... put "Thank you, Richard" into myArrayKey ["private"] put "It seems Richard is spending all his days and nights here in the mailing lists and forums. There must be thousands of messages by now attached to his name. But it is really enjoyable to read all his posts. Thanks to him for this huge effort. I think I could state that all others here feel the same" into my Array ["public"]. And very good answers are coming from all sides. I enjoy reading. --- I read a lot of very critical and even nasty remarks regarding the www.livecode.org site. And really, it needs improvement. Is there someone in charge of that site? Because it could be a good ground to publish ideas and guidelines in a central place. I am willing to contribute, but I can not manage such site. This could be the location to place Community Coding Standards, Naming Conventions, Best Practice, etc. Just here are some first ideas from my first brainstorming out of the blue for the content development of such site. It is just an unordered brainstorming list to help to establish a real community platform. - Big invitation to the Community (and community version) - Download Community version together with a functional useful professionally made application that works everywhere - Download of more ready-made solutions and starting stacks with a very up-to-date GUI for all devices (Of course well documented in all details, a guide for newbies to understand each line of code) - What is LiveCode and what it is not? --- What makes LiveCode unique in comparison? = Unique Selling Proposition --- Comparison with other similar programming languages --- Comparison with very popular languages --- Comparison with other OOP implementations, dot notation, etc. - LiveCode's worldwide market (why not open up more to other regions in the world?) - LiveCode terminology (abbreviations, acronyms, glossary) - LiveCode system architecture (how is the engine working? Compiler... deeper insight) - LiveCodes (LCS and LCB), even driven system, messaging (And of course, explanations why it is as it is) - LiveCode language features ---- LCS and LCB - Coding standards - Naming standards - IDE guide - Deployment guide (always updated to latest) - Online interactive language learning course - Online dictionary of certain computer and LiveCode terms (Chinese, Japanese, Arabic, French,.. ) - Associations/representations in various countries (speaking their local language, organizing local workshops) - Best practice (A huge section for best practice with code examples and snippets) - Stack exchange (the one on livecode.com has a lot of "old" stacks, but very few new ones - Marketplace, stacks, LCB widgets, LCS widgets - Reviews - Community projects - Articles from users (blog) - Sponsoring (attracting sponsors as well) - .Ads section (publishing paid ads) - Links - Support Mmh. It is pretty much work to build and maintain ). We should find a sponsor. ) Roland From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Mon May 1 09:19:09 2017 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Mon, 1 May 2017 09:19:09 -0400 Subject: Is there any reason not to create a self-installing app? In-Reply-To: <0F8F1339-C03E-4F5D-94D3-7B77F7E1079E@m-r-d.de> References: <37A02A04-D994-4E35-BEEB-33216F13906E@gmail.com> <0F8F1339-C03E-4F5D-94D3-7B77F7E1079E@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: Have a look at Trevor's Levure framework. It's an easy to make #1 happen. Also, it's really easy to just make hack-a-stacks with it, too. I was pretty skeptical when I started using it a couple months ago, but once I started using it, I stopped building anything the old way. On Sun, Apr 30, 2017 at 4:02 PM, Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > Am 30.04.2017 um 21:12 schrieb Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >: > > > > For pc and maybe mac, it seems like it would be possible for the app to > have two modes. On first open, it would take the user through an > installation process where it handles saving the various files and sub > folders, and adding the start menu stuff. > > > > When opened after that, it would just run normally. > > > > Are there advantages to doing it that way, rather than using an > install-creator program? > > > The only advantage i would see is the fact that you do not have to rely on > a 3rd party tool. > > I for me prefer to use a 3rd party tool to create an installer for windows > , in my case Innosetup or better said InstallGadget*. > > Why, because an installer maker does all the work for me and i do not have > to code that myself. > > *A tool Monte created long time ago. It uses Innosetup under the hood. > The tool is very old, but is still working. I replaced the older Innosetup > files with current ones to support Windows 8 and 10. Unfortunately > InstallGadget is not available any more. It was really so easy to create an > installer with it. > > > For Mac i do not see a need for an installer if the program is just an app > bundle. For such apps i am using DMG Canvas (http://www.araelium.com/ > dmgcanvas ) to create a DMG. > > Matthias > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode < > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode> > > > > Matthias Rebbe > Bramkampsieke 13 > 32312 L?bbecke > Tel +49 5741 310000 > +49 160 5504462 > Fax: +49 5741 310002 > eMail: matthias at m-r-d.de > > BR5 Konverter - BR5 -> MP3 portfolio/produkte/brx/> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Mon May 1 09:33:40 2017 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Mon, 1 May 2017 09:33:40 -0400 Subject: Creating apps directly on mobile devices In-Reply-To: References: <2FDA85A7-D593-4694-84CB-CAD78CB70395@gmail.com> Message-ID: One of the LC guys was messing around with this a couple years ago, and posted about it on the blog. I have been able to do lots of useful things, including editing scripts, on mobile. I would be willing to bet that you can have all sorts of fun if you set your mind to it on a 13" tablet... On Sun, Apr 30, 2017 at 7:29 AM, Roger Eller via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Build it and they will come... er, download it. :) > > On Apr 29, 2017 7:25 PM, "Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode" < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > In other message threads, I have asked about a > > LiveCode Features Demo for mobile platforms. > > > > This APP/APK Demo would allows to test > > interactively every LiveCode Feature in that > > platform. > > > > But this program still do not exists... > > > > Al > > > > On Sat, Apr 29, 2017 at 7:02 PM, wrote: > > > > > Yes! > > > > > > If they can have that, why couldn't we have LiveCodeMobileDev or > > something > > > like that? > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > > > On Apr 29, 2017, at 6:51 PM, Alejandro Tejada > > > wrote: > > > > > > Apps like Pythonista? > > > http://omz-software.com/pythonista/ > > > > > > Al > > > > > > On Sat, Apr 29, 2017 at 6:41 PM, wrote: > > > > > >> I certainly think so - not sure if Apple would balk since they don't > > like > > >> apps to import code, but I think there are some iOS development apps > > made > > >> for iOS, so maybe not an issue. > > >> > > >> Sent from my iPhone > > >> > > >> > On Apr 29, 2017, at 5:19 PM, Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode < > > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > >> > > > >> > Before my Ubuntu Linux computer stopped working, > > >> > I had created an Android APK with two buttons > > >> > and a single field. > > >> > The first button only opens any stack named > > >> > "test.livecode" from Android's document > > >> > folder. > > >> > > > >> > The second button script's is: > > >> > > > >> > on mouseup > > >> > do field 1 > > >> > end mouseup > > >> > > > >> > Could you run an iOS app with > > >> > only these two features? > > >> > > > >> > Al > > >> > _______________________________________________ > > >> > use-livecode mailing list > > >> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > >> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > >> subscription preferences: > > >> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > >> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Mon May 1 11:14:48 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Mon, 1 May 2017 15:14:48 +0000 Subject: [OT] Today's Google Doodle/Theme In-Reply-To: <824FB412-E1C5-4295-9A37-059B1790D053@tactilemedia.com> References: <81781662-17F0-4CC8-8EB9-2C3CF4D1F1B3@tactilemedia.com> <824FB412-E1C5-4295-9A37-059B1790D053@tactilemedia.com> Message-ID: <4CB65C6C-98DD-48AF-8003-7A91B7089FAE@iotecdigital.com> :-)) > On Apr 28, 2017, at 11:20 , Scott Rossi via use-livecode wrote: > > Then don?t look in the Balkans. > > Scott Rossi > Creative Director > Tactile Media, UX/UI Design > > > >> On Apr 28, 2017, at 11:18 AM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Not showing up in the Balkans. >> >> Richmond. >> >> On 4/28/17 9:06 pm, Scott Rossi via use-livecode wrote: >>> Note today?s Google doodle topic is especially appropriate for the LC community. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Scott Rossi >>> Creative Director >>> Tactile Media, UX/UI Design >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Mon May 1 11:18:11 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Mon, 1 May 2017 15:18:11 +0000 Subject: [OT] Today's Google Doodle/Theme In-Reply-To: <81781662-17F0-4CC8-8EB9-2C3CF4D1F1B3@tactilemedia.com> References: <81781662-17F0-4CC8-8EB9-2C3CF4D1F1B3@tactilemedia.com> Message-ID: The maypole?? Bob S > On Apr 28, 2017, at 11:06 , Scott Rossi via use-livecode wrote: > > Note today?s Google doodle topic is especially appropriate for the LC community. > > Regards, > > Scott Rossi > Creative Director > Tactile Media, UX/UI Design From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Mon May 1 12:02:36 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Mon, 1 May 2017 16:02:36 +0000 Subject: sims' spotty dog In-Reply-To: <5c1dada4-3bcd-b15a-d2ef-f2524c72d28e@gmail.com> References: <5c1dada4-3bcd-b15a-d2ef-f2524c72d28e@gmail.com> Message-ID: <8964556F-89A7-4A88-BEA1-AEEF7F2A7C94@iotecdigital.com> A great deal has been done about it by most people on this list. I am not getting them because I use Microsoft OLP (Online Protection). Other spam filter software is available. > On Apr 29, 2017, at 10:28 , Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: > > Why has nothing been done about this? > > Richmond. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Mon May 1 12:46:08 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Mon, 1 May 2017 19:46:08 +0300 Subject: [OT] Today's Google Doodle/Theme In-Reply-To: References: <81781662-17F0-4CC8-8EB9-2C3CF4D1F1B3@tactilemedia.com> Message-ID: <2aaa2989-6193-fdc7-e360-d1339db0f2aa@gmail.com> Phallic programming: Ada Lovelace ain't in it! On 5/1/17 6:18 pm, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > The maypole?? > > Bob S > > >> On Apr 28, 2017, at 11:06 , Scott Rossi via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Note today?s Google doodle topic is especially appropriate for the LC community. >> >> Regards, >> >> Scott Rossi >> Creative Director >> Tactile Media, UX/UI Design > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon May 1 13:58:46 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 1 May 2017 10:58:46 -0700 Subject: Android & LC advice In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: David V Glasgow wrote: >> On 30 Apr 2017, at 2:49 pm, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> >> David V Glasgow wrote: >> > Because of the cost issue, I am assuming that Android will be the >> > most appropriate platform. >> >> If cost were the only issue, Android would no doubt be the better >> choice by virtue of its vastly more diverse hardware ecosystem. >> >> But again, it boils down to what the user is expected to do with it. >> For infrequent lightweight tasks it probably doesn't matter much, >> but if the user will be using the device a lot it may matter whether >> they already have deep experience with iOS or Android. The two OSes >> are different enough that I see users of each stumble and become >> frustrated when they try to use the other. > > Good point Richard, > > I should have said. > > Nothing I would expect to be particularly demanding. Mostly shunting > text about on screen, timing and recording responses, and very modest > data exchange < = 1000 characters. In that case I would be inclined to strongly recommend Android for two reasons: - Hardware variety: OMG! the range of devices is vast, so the only difficulty in picking one with an optimal balance between price and performance will be because there are so many to choose from. :) - Installation: For small scale local deployments, you just turn on the "Unknown Sources" option in Android Prefs, copy the APK to the device either through SD card or a web server, and after installing it turn off the "Unknown Sources" option again to prevent other side-loading. That's it. Instant win, with no complex paperwork or installation process with provisioning profiles as you'd need for iOS. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From janschenkel at yahoo.com Mon May 1 16:07:29 2017 From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel) Date: Mon, 1 May 2017 20:07:29 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Will LiveCode run an x86 android device? References: <1830316788.1841938.1493669249915.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1830316788.1841938.1493669249915@mail.yahoo.com> On Sat, 4/29/17, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > [snip] > > I had thought one of the reasons Android uses the Dalvik and ART > VMs is because they're VMs, separating the APIs from processor architectures. > > If so, then the LC engine for Android is bytecode rather than machine > code, and as such should run on either processor architecture, no? > Hi Richard et al, Actually, LiveCode was not rewritten in Java, nor compiled to Dalvik/ART bytecode. The engine for Android is largely written in the same C++ as for the other platforms. And then compiled to native ARM instructions for the specific Android variant of Linux. Most Android apps are written in Java, and occasionally tap into native code via the Android Native Development Kit (NDK). Android NDK is the platform-specific implementation of the Java Native Interface (JNI). Android has multiple Application Binary Interfaces (ABIs) to support various architectures. ARM Android apps that don't need access to native code can run 'as is' on x86 Android devices. Those that do need native code, will have to compile separate builds (and may bundle them into a single 'fat' APK). Or they have to rely on the ARM-on-x86 emulation feature named Houdini. So LiveCode is a bit of an outsider, as the apps it produces spend little time in the Dalvik/ART virtual machine. All scripts run in the native portion, and events are funneled from the VM into native code to be handled there. All this to say: if we want native x86 Android apps, then the LiveCode team will have to crank up the compilers again... Jan Schenkel. ===== Quartam Reports & PDF Library for LiveCode www.quartam.com ===== "As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time." (La Rochefoucauld) From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon May 1 19:52:25 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 1 May 2017 16:52:25 -0700 Subject: Will LiveCode run an x86 android device? In-Reply-To: <1830316788.1841938.1493669249915@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1830316788.1841938.1493669249915@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Jan Schenkel wrote: > So LiveCode is a bit of an outsider, as the apps it produces spend > little time in the Dalvik/ART virtual machine. All scripts run in the > native portion, and events are funneled from the VM into native code > to be handled there. This leaves me wondering which percentage is larger: How many Android apps like LiveCode are written in C++ rather than Java? -vs- How many Android devices have an x86 processor? My hunch is that there are more C++ apps on Android than there are x86 devices they can't run on, but I have no data on that. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ahsoftware at sonic.net Mon May 1 20:40:50 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Mon, 1 May 2017 17:40:50 -0700 Subject: Will LiveCode run an x86 android device? In-Reply-To: References: <1830316788.1841938.1493669249915@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00008fd7-658b-4460-2557-d3b425167661@sonic.net> On 05/01/2017 04:52 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > How many Android devices have an x86 processor? > > My hunch is that there are more C++ apps on Android than there are x86 > devices they can't run on, but I have no data on that. > I believe all the Chromebooks have Intel chips. This includes the 2016+ models with Android app compatibility. The rollout of the compatibility layer to Chromebooks is slow but there's an impressive list of planned (as in don't hold your breath) hardware here: https://sites.google.com/a/chromium.org/dev/chromium-os/chrome-os-systems-supporting-android-apps?rd=1 ...and as noted here, https://support.google.com/chromebook/answer/7021273 "Also, some apps don?t work with Chromebooks, so you won?t be able to download them." -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon May 1 20:49:00 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 1 May 2017 17:49:00 -0700 Subject: Will LiveCode run an x86 android device? In-Reply-To: <00008fd7-658b-4460-2557-d3b425167661@sonic.net> References: <00008fd7-658b-4460-2557-d3b425167661@sonic.net> Message-ID: <07846a59-7c17-e4e7-3b7a-a874f67b32e5@fourthworld.com> Mark Wieder wrote: > On 05/01/2017 04:52 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > >> How many Android devices have an x86 processor? >> >> My hunch is that there are more C++ apps on Android than there are x86 >> devices they can't run on, but I have no data on that. >> > > I believe all the Chromebooks have Intel chips. This includes the > 2016+ models with Android app compatibility. Ah, yes, I'd forgotten Chrome now runs Android apps. Given that Chromebooks are by far the fastest-growing device type in EDU, if it were up to me I know what enhancement I'd have the engine team working on next... -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From capellan2000 at gmail.com Tue May 2 01:31:53 2017 From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada) Date: Tue, 2 May 2017 01:31:53 -0400 Subject: Android Stack Opener Message-ID: Hi All, Check these files that I am using to develop and test faster, much faster, any stack using a real Android devices (rooted), without the limitations of device emulation. 1) Stack Opener v3 (Android APK) Download from: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9ja3Yvw8cHLRDUxdlhLZng1b28/view?usp=sharing Install this Apk that only open any stack named "test.livecode" placed inside Android's Documents folder. 2) Android Stack Opener (Compressed stack) Download from this post in the forum: http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=29207 This stack allows to open all other stacks within Android's Documents folder. Follow these steps to configure: 1) Decompress this stack, 2) rename this stack as: test.livecode 3) place it within your Android's Documents folder After you follow these steps, open Installed APK and click topleft button to open the stack test.livecode Tell me if this works fine in your own setup. Al From dvglasgow at gmail.com Tue May 2 04:29:25 2017 From: dvglasgow at gmail.com (David V Glasgow) Date: Tue, 2 May 2017 09:29:25 +0100 Subject: Android & LC advice In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8F8B2388-1E86-411D-B7F2-F31F3CE33529@gmail.com> Thanks, Richard. Really helpful. David Glasgow > > In that case I would be inclined to strongly recommend Android for two reasons: > > - Hardware variety: OMG! the range of devices is vast, so the only difficulty in picking one with an optimal balance between price and performance will be because there are so many to choose from. :) > > - Installation: For small scale local deployments, you just turn on the "Unknown Sources" option in Android Prefs, copy the APK to the device either through SD card or a web server, and after installing it turn off the "Unknown Sources" option again to prevent other side-loading. That's it. Instant win, with no complex paperwork or installation process with provisioning profiles as you'd need for iOS. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From capellan2000 at gmail.com Tue May 2 09:11:11 2017 From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada) Date: Tue, 2 May 2017 09:11:11 -0400 Subject: Placing a group on topleft of open stack Message-ID: Hi All, In a recent forum thread: http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=29207 there is a stack that lists all livecode stacks within a folder. The user just have to click the stack's name to open. Now, I am trying to add a group on topleft of every open stack (A group with 4 buttons to select one of 4 fullscreen modes) but could not find a way to do this on Android. How could you place a group on a new stack on Android? Thanks in advance! Al From dochawk at gmail.com Tue May 2 17:06:39 2017 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Tue, 2 May 2017 14:06:39 -0700 Subject: 8.1.4rc1 regressions Message-ID: I've noticed a couple of what appear to be regressions in 8.1.4rc1. Can others confirm? 1) "move tab to new window" in editor doesn't seem to work; it simply mangles the tab bar 2) It did not chagne/offer to change itself to the default. At this point, when I use "save as" on a stack, it then opens in 7.1.4. (the "change all" in the finder isn't a solution; I still have stacks that I want to stay with 5.0) -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Tue May 2 17:16:48 2017 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Tue, 2 May 2017 17:16:48 -0400 Subject: Scroll Bars in scrolling groups In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <006501d2c389$69072ee0$3b158ca0$@net> OK I'm stumped. I have a scrolling group consisting 20 other groups each with 2 fields and a button. I place these sub groups and the controls in them in the parent group from top to bottom. The sub groups go off the bottom of the parent group as expected. Everything looks perfect and can set the vscroll via script and see the sub groups that are out of view as expected. BUT.. when I show the vscroll bar(even with messages disabled), all the sub groups move up and to the left. The top sub group hugs top of the parent group and all the sub groups hug the parent group on the left. Why? If I place the subgroups while the vscroll bar is visible then the top groups move up to the left and the remaining one stay where I put them. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks Win 10 LC 8.1.3/8.1.4rc1 Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net From merakosp at gmail.com Tue May 2 17:20:54 2017 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Tue, 2 May 2017 22:20:54 +0100 Subject: 8.1.4rc1 regressions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Richard, 1) Yes this a regression, and it will be fixed in 8.1.4 RC2: http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19564 2) I am not sure I follow. Could you please provide some more details? Best, Panos -- On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 10:06 PM, Dr. Hawkins via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I've noticed a couple of what appear to be regressions in 8.1.4rc1. Can > others confirm? > > 1) "move tab to new window" in editor doesn't seem to work; it simply > mangles the tab bar > 2) It did not chagne/offer to change itself to the default. At this point, > when I use "save as" on a stack, it then opens in 7.1.4. (the "change all" > in the finder isn't a solution; I still have stacks that I want to stay > with 5.0) > > -- > Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. > (702) 508-8462 > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From dochawk at gmail.com Tue May 2 18:28:44 2017 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Tue, 2 May 2017 15:28:44 -0700 Subject: 8.1.4rc1 regressions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 2:20 PM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > 2) I am not sure I follow. Could you please provide some more details? > > For prior upgrades, the Mac would catch on to the new version as the default either immediately or within a couple of days. Sometimes, I'd simply change the default application to the new version if I got tired of waiting. This time, 8.1.3 had been the default. I removed it after installing 8.1.3, and now not only does it default to 7.1.4, but when I change it for a stack, and then use "save as" from code within the stack, the new stack is set to 7.1.4. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From waprothero at gmail.com Tue May 2 22:53:51 2017 From: waprothero at gmail.com (William Prothero) Date: Tue, 2 May 2017 19:53:51 -0700 Subject: xCode ??? version Message-ID: I have iOS 10.3.1, and OSX 10.12.4 LC 9.0.0 (dp6) and LC 8.1.4 (RC1). These two latest versions of LiveCode don?t seem to support XCode 8.3 which is required for iOS 10.3.1, I can?t get my app onto my iPhone now. Hopefully a new version that will support the latest iOS will come soon. Or, am I missing something? Bill P William A. Prothero http://earthlearningsolution.org/ From terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au Tue May 2 23:32:19 2017 From: terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd) Date: Wed, 3 May 2017 03:32:19 +0000 Subject: LC HTML5 apps on Windows - what browsers are supported? Message-ID: <7595C563-0A66-455B-860F-94EF77CCEDCA@unimelb.edu.au> Anybody know which browsers will run LC?s HTML5 apps successfully under Windows? So far I?ve only been able to get one I?ve created working in Firefox. It gets stuck at the ?downloading? phase on both Chrome and IE (I?m running Windows 7) and on the Mac it works on Safari and Firefox but also stalls on Chrome. Regards, Terry... From hh at hyperhh.de Wed May 3 00:07:26 2017 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Wed, 3 May 2017 06:07:26 +0200 Subject: LC HTML5 apps on Windows - what browsers are supported? Message-ID: <62F22FCA-A5A1-46F0-8A16-143725CB3FAF@hyperhh.de> On Windows latest Firefox, Chrome and Opera. NO IE, NO Edge. Running with Chrome or Opera requires a (local) server. From terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au Wed May 3 00:10:12 2017 From: terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd) Date: Wed, 3 May 2017 04:10:12 +0000 Subject: LC HTML5 apps on Windows - what browsers are supported? In-Reply-To: <62F22FCA-A5A1-46F0-8A16-143725CB3FAF@hyperhh.de> References: <62F22FCA-A5A1-46F0-8A16-143725CB3FAF@hyperhh.de> Message-ID: <75F3A6F2-3F73-49CE-856D-BBA31DF25305@unimelb.edu.au> Great, thanks for that. Hadn?t occurred to me that I?d need to run from a server to test under Chrome. I?ll give that a go. Terry... On 3/05/2017 2:07 pm, "use-livecode on behalf of hh via use-livecode" wrote: On Windows latest Firefox, Chrome and Opera. NO IE, NO Edge. Running with Chrome or Opera requires a (local) server. _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dave at applicationinsight.com Wed May 3 03:10:03 2017 From: dave at applicationinsight.com (Dave Kilroy) Date: Wed, 3 May 2017 08:10:03 +0100 Subject: xCode ??? version Message-ID: tldr - don?t use Xcode 8.3 yet, you can still build for iOS 10.3 Bill the Release Notes are a good place to check such issues. The following is an extract for release notes for LiveCode 8.1.4(rc1) iOS iOS deployment is possible when running LiveCode IDE on a Mac, and provided Xcode is installed and has been set in LiveCode Preferences (in the Mobile Support pane). 3 LiveCode 8.1.4-rc-1 Release Notes 4/4/17 Currently, the supported versions of Xcode are: Xcode 4.6 on MacOS X 10.7 Xcode 5.1 on MacOS X 10.8 Xcode 6.2 on MacOS X 10.9 Xcode 6.2 and 7.2 on Mac OS X 10.10 Xcode 8.2 on MacOS X 10.11 Xcode 8.2 on MacOS 10.12 It is also possible to set other versions of Xcode, to allow testing on a wider range of iOS simulators. For instance, on OS X 10.10 (Yosemite), you can add Xcode 5.1 in the Mobile Support preferences, to let you test your stack on the iOS Simulator 7.1. We currently support deployment for the following versions of iOS: 6.1 [simulator] 7.1 [simulator] 8.2 [simulator] 9.2 10.2 From mark at livecode.com Wed May 3 07:00:35 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Wed, 03 May 2017 13:00:35 +0200 Subject: Documentation on Accelerated Rendering In-Reply-To: <6bc860fb-0167-4aca-6226-8763f2008dfe@hyperactivesw.com> References: <3A66C968-1180-46D8-91A3-DDFD6A11F534@hindu.org> <6bc860fb-0167-4aca-6226-8763f2008dfe@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <47150887f7181b13cbff7ef3bf4c9c1a@livecode.com> On 2017-04-30 23:52, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > I have been wanting to know that for years. I have the general idea > but I want to know exactly what each command or property does. How > does layerMode interact with rendering and when should I set it? (I > used it incorrectly and submitted a spurious bug report, but I'm still > not clear on why I was wrong.) This is perhaps something we should have more clearly documented at the time, it has been a while since I last looked at it... Your description is generally correct, but I'll see if I can elaborate with more technical details. First of all, just a reminder about how the engine handles screen updates... The engine checks for the need to update the screen after every command has executed, or after 'unlock screen' if the screen has been locked and the unlock causes the lock count to reach zero. During execution of a single command (when the screen is not locked), or the execution of all commands if under lock screen, any required visual changes to the object are accumulated in the stack's 'dirty region'. This is a collection of rectangles (on the stack) which need updated. The acceleratedRendering property changes the way the engine renders the stack when changes are applied (either after each command, or after an unlock screen which resets the lock count to zero). When it is false, the engine creates an offscreen buffer big enough to cover the dirty region, uses the dirty region as clip, then iterates through all objects on the card back to front, rendering each in turn into the single offscreen buffer. When that is complete, the engine copies the offscreen buffer to the screen. When acceleratedRendering is true, however, this changes. Accelerated rendering mode views the tree of top-level objects as a flat sequence of layers, ordered from back to front. Each layer can have one of three layerModes: - static - dynamic - scrolling The static mode indicates to the engine that that layer is not going to move, so once rendered once (in theory) it and any thing it covers won't need to be re-rendered. The dynamic mode indicates to the engine that the layer is going to move, so ideally should be rendered independently of everything else. The scrolling mode is the same as dynamic *except* that it indicates that the layer is just a view (clipped rectangle) into a larger area - e.g. what you can see in a field currently, and what the field would look like if rendered on an infinite screen with no clipping. When there are multiple static mode objects next to each other in the list, they are all elided into a single layer. e.g. Graphic - static (bottom object) Image - static Image - static Button - dynamic Image - static Field - static (top object) This would generate three separately rendered layers - the bottom one being the first three controls, the middle one being just the button, the top on being the last two controls. The key thing here is that these layers can just be composited - i.e. they are existing bitmaps, which are blended together into the screen buffer on demand - this is something GPUs are very very very good at. In particular, when you have moving (dynamic) layers, moving those layers/objects doesn't require re-rendering anything *just* re-compositing to the screen with the layers in a different place. This is the source of the speed improvement you can see with acceleratedRendering (e.g. you can have, say, 100 objects moving about smoothly whereas you'd only manage maybe 10 before). This is not the whole story, as acceleratedRendering mode makes one other 'optimization' - it doesn't actually use object-sized buffers for any layer. Instead, it splits up each (merged) layer into tiles with size the compositorTileSize. So the compositing step is actually blending together lots of small bitmaps, rather than a collection of large bitmaps - this makes no real difference to performance (as it is number of pixels blended which is the key factor, not number of bitmaps) but does to updating things when any object changes as only those tiles which intersect with the dirty region need to be considered... Furthermore, in acceleratedRendering mode, the 'virtual layers' (which come about through merging together adjacent statics, but leaving dynamic and scrolling ones alone) each have their own dirty region. This means, much less re-rendering needs to take place (in any one case) *and* much less data transfer from memory -> compositor's tile storage / format need to take place. In terms of the compositor properties: - the compositorType determines what kind of technology the blending step uses. There is a software mode, which works on all platforms and just uses the engine's not-too-shabby compositing code. There is a coregraphics mode, which works on Mac/iOS, which uses CoreGraphics (which gives an advantage because CoreGraphics images can be blitted direct to the window buffer) There is OpenGL mode, which works on Android/iOS, this uses tile-sized textures on the GPU, and the GPU to do all the blending. - the compositorTileSize determines the size of tile to use (which must be a power-of-two up to 256 pixels). - the compositorCacheLimit determines the maximum amount of memory to use for tiles. The third point here needs a little bit of explanation. As acceleratedRendering mode splits things up into tiles, it can leave rendering any tile which is not visible until it is actually visible. For example, if you have a large opaque dynamic layer over a stack of static layers, chances are that you will never see most of the static layers underneath, so the tiles for the (virtual) static layer will never need to be rendered, or stored - so it doesn't. This minimizes the number of tiles/textures/images which are created, and minimizes rendering time for any one update. Now to answer you direct questions: > - What does layerMode tell the engine, and when is it read? I think it > tells the engine to create a buffer for the object. I had read a long > time ago that it would help to reset the layermode to static if the > object was done moving, but there should have been a caveat: don't > reset if the object will move again later, because in that case you > want to preserve the existing buffer. That seems to imply that > resetting layermode to static will dump the buffer. Is that right? When you change the layerMode it will cause a recalculation of layers around it (potentially) when the current dirty list (collection of per-layer dirty regions) is processed. If a layer is not going to move for quite a while, then you it might be reasonable to set it to static, as long as you can anticipate when it might move so you can set it to dynamic again (setting to dynamic and then moving immediately is likely to cause a stutter). > - When set to true, what does acceleratedRendering actually do? Is it > effectively a command to scan every object on the card and create > buffers? Does it scan more than just the current card? It changes the approach to rendering as described above. The accelRendering buffers, tiles and such are keyed to the stack, but flushed whenever there is a card change - so essentially it is card local (but you only ever have one accelRendering context per stack). > - Is it okay to turn it on and off as needed? Are there disadvantages > to that, assuming the objects won't be moving any more? Can I turn it > on at the beginning of a handler and turn it off at the end if those > objects won't be moving any more? This would be ill-advised unless all movement you want is happening within that handler. Turning acceleratedRendering on will mean the engine has to re-render all visible tiles in all the virtual layers; turning it off again deletes the accelRendering context for the stack, dumps all its tiles and then re-renders the stack using the normal painter's algorithm into offscreen buffer approach. > - When I turn it off, does it dump all the buffers? I think it does. Yes. > - What does it do between card changes? Does it keep old buffers until > the cache limit is hit? No - the buffer is flushed whenever the card changes. Hope this helps! Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From toolbook at kestner.de Wed May 3 07:45:08 2017 From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB) Date: Wed, 3 May 2017 13:45:08 +0200 Subject: drag and drop of lines within a field Message-ID: <005101d2c402$b79acd40$26d067c0$@kestner.de> Hello, I want to let the user drag'n drop lines within a scrolling list field to let him sort the sequence of (not wrapped) lines. Deleting the start line, inserting it after the target line. I can invent the wheel, but wanted to ask, if anybody has perhaps a nice snipped with all the needed UI behavior, like showing the insert point between two lines while dragging and perhaps dynamically showing the dragged content and so on. Thanks Tiemo From hh at hyperhh.de Wed May 3 08:07:57 2017 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Wed, 3 May 2017 14:07:57 +0200 Subject: Documentation on Accelerated Rendering Message-ID: Thanks for that, this was very enlightening (should be, once again, attached to the Dictionary). If I understand correctly, it explains why testing for speed has reliable results only on _physical_ mobile devices. And, while in physical desktop environments a stack/ an app may run correctly, virtual desktop systems may extremely slow down if host and guest have different default compositor properties. Even if the virtual engine tries to use the host's GPU. From mark at livecode.com Wed May 3 08:24:54 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Wed, 03 May 2017 14:24:54 +0200 Subject: Documentation on Accelerated Rendering In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0f477447e80f489c038563ed2bdab8d5@livecode.com> On 2017-05-03 14:07, hh via use-livecode wrote: > Thanks for that, this was very enlightening (should be, once > again, attached to the Dictionary). > > If I understand correctly, it explains why testing for speed > has reliable results only on _physical_ mobile devices. > > And, while in physical desktop environments a stack/ an app may > run correctly, virtual desktop systems may extremely slow down if > host and guest have different default compositor properties. Even > if the virtual engine tries to use the host's GPU. > To be fair, speed tests are only really reliable on the devices you are wanting to run your code on. When using any sort of GPU, it will depend on the GPU (although, it should be noted that if the GPU is only being used for blending - like accelRendering does - then the cost to update a frame which has no changes to any objects is pretty constant - and directly proportional to the number of (partially) visible tiles). If using software (or CG modes) then it will depend on the speed of the CPU. At least when acceleratedRendering was written, the CoreGraphics and software modes running on a decent Mac desktop at the time were about the same, if not a bit faster than using OpenGL compositor on a recent iDevice at the time. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From bodine at bodinetraininggames.com Wed May 3 09:46:22 2017 From: bodine at bodinetraininggames.com (Tom Bodine) Date: Wed, 3 May 2017 08:46:22 -0500 Subject: drag and drop of lines within a field In-Reply-To: <005101d2c402$b79acd40$26d067c0$@kestner.de> References: <005101d2c402$b79acd40$26d067c0$@kestner.de> Message-ID: <10b0c515-8b5c-d3f7-c815-fb5557f1ddbc@bodinetraininggames.com> Hi Tiemo, I use Scott Rossi's "Get In Line" stack: http://www.tactilemedia.com/site_files/downloads/getinline.rev.zip HTH, Tom Bodine -- ============================================= *Bodine Training Games LLC* 8417 Hallet St., Lenexa, KS 66215 USA https://www.gameshowpresenter.com / 913-492-7709 Making fun tools for presenters, trainers and teachers for 17 years LIKE US at https://www.facebook.com/gameshowpresenter/ From toolbook at kestner.de Wed May 3 10:04:14 2017 From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB) Date: Wed, 3 May 2017 16:04:14 +0200 Subject: AW: drag and drop of lines within a field In-Reply-To: <10b0c515-8b5c-d3f7-c815-fb5557f1ddbc@bodinetraininggames.com> References: <005101d2c402$b79acd40$26d067c0$@kestner.de> <10b0c515-8b5c-d3f7-c815-fb5557f1ddbc@bodinetraininggames.com> Message-ID: <007601d2c416$267608c0$73621a40$@kestner.de> Hi Tom, that looks very smart. Thanks for the link Tiemo -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag von Tom Bodine via use-livecode Gesendet: Mittwoch, 3. Mai 2017 15:46 An: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Cc: Tom Bodine Betreff: drag and drop of lines within a field Hi Tiemo, I use Scott Rossi's "Get In Line" stack: http://www.tactilemedia.com/site_files/downloads/getinline.rev.zip HTH, Tom Bodine -- ============================================= *Bodine Training Games LLC* 8417 Hallet St., Lenexa, KS 66215 USA https://www.gameshowpresenter.com / 913-492-7709 Making fun tools for presenters, trainers and teachers for 17 years LIKE US at https://www.facebook.com/gameshowpresenter/ _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed May 3 11:01:18 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 3 May 2017 15:01:18 +0000 Subject: Scroll Bars in scrolling groups In-Reply-To: <006501d2c389$69072ee0$3b158ca0$@net> References: <006501d2c389$69072ee0$3b158ca0$@net> Message-ID: <04AE48B0-C46D-430A-BA26-87440176CD06@iotecdigital.com> Is it possible that some of these controls have geometry properties set? Bob S > On May 2, 2017, at 14:16 , Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote: > > OK I'm stumped. I have a scrolling group consisting 20 other groups each > with 2 fields and a button. I place these sub groups and the controls in > them in the parent group from top to bottom. The sub groups go off the > bottom of the parent group as expected. Everything looks perfect and can set > the vscroll via script and see the sub groups that are out of view as > expected. BUT.. when I show the vscroll bar(even with messages disabled), > all the sub groups move up and to the left. The top sub group hugs top of > the parent group and all the sub groups hug the parent group on the left. > Why? If I place the subgroups while the vscroll bar is visible then the top > groups move up to the left and the remaining one stay where I put them. Any > help would be appreciated. > > Thanks > > Win 10 LC 8.1.3/8.1.4rc1 > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed May 3 11:02:46 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 3 May 2017 15:02:46 +0000 Subject: 8.1.4rc1 regressions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3E182709-A31D-4DD9-B997-FFC0387628DA@iotecdigital.com> I can confirm that the script editor is buggy. If you try to close individual tabs, it borks the whole editor and no more tabs can be worked with. Scripts will not be editable and no more tabs can be closed. The only solution is to close the script editor and reopen it. Bob S > On May 2, 2017, at 14:06 , Dr. Hawkins via use-livecode wrote: > > I've noticed a couple of what appear to be regressions in 8.1.4rc1. Can > others confirm? > > 1) "move tab to new window" in editor doesn't seem to work; it simply > mangles the tab bar > 2) It did not chagne/offer to change itself to the default. At this point, > when I use "save as" on a stack, it then opens in 7.1.4. (the "change all" > in the finder isn't a solution; I still have stacks that I want to stay > with 5.0) > > -- > Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. > (702) 508-8462 > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed May 3 11:37:45 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 3 May 2017 15:37:45 +0000 Subject: drag and drop of lines within a field In-Reply-To: <10b0c515-8b5c-d3f7-c815-fb5557f1ddbc@bodinetraininggames.com> References: <005101d2c402$b79acd40$26d067c0$@kestner.de> <10b0c515-8b5c-d3f7-c815-fb5557f1ddbc@bodinetraininggames.com> Message-ID: <01391D30-4AF5-44F4-8E9A-2FE3D2B9F0A4@iotecdigital.com> That was so cool I donated. Bob S > On May 3, 2017, at 06:46 , Tom Bodine via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi Tiemo, > > I use Scott Rossi's "Get In Line" stack: > http://www.tactilemedia.com/site_files/downloads/getinline.rev.zip > > HTH, > Tom Bodine From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Wed May 3 12:10:01 2017 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Wed, 3 May 2017 12:10:01 -0400 Subject: Scroll Bars in scrolling groups In-Reply-To: <04AE48B0-C46D-430A-BA26-87440176CD06@iotecdigital.com> References: <006501d2c389$69072ee0$3b158ca0$@net> <04AE48B0-C46D-430A-BA26-87440176CD06@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <004701d2c427$b8846a20$298d3e60$@net> Thanks Bob, I didn't set any geometry properties. I thought that unless you explicitly call "revUpdateGeometry" these properties have no effect. The thing that has me stumped is that even with messages off showing vertical scroll bar either by the message box or property inspector makes things move. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Bob Sneidar via use-livecode Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2017 11:01 AM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: Bob Sneidar Subject: Re: Scroll Bars in scrolling groups Is it possible that some of these controls have geometry properties set? Bob S > On May 2, 2017, at 14:16 , Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote: > > OK I'm stumped. I have a scrolling group consisting 20 other groups > each with 2 fields and a button. I place these sub groups and the > controls in them in the parent group from top to bottom. The sub > groups go off the bottom of the parent group as expected. Everything > looks perfect and can set the vscroll via script and see the sub > groups that are out of view as expected. BUT.. when I show the vscroll > bar(even with messages disabled), all the sub groups move up and to > the left. The top sub group hugs top of the parent group and all the sub groups hug the parent group on the left. > Why? If I place the subgroups while the vscroll bar is visible then > the top groups move up to the left and the remaining one stay where I > put them. Any help would be appreciated. > > Thanks > > Win 10 LC 8.1.3/8.1.4rc1 > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Wed May 3 13:06:13 2017 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Wed, 3 May 2017 13:06:13 -0400 Subject: Scroll Bars in scrolling groups In-Reply-To: <004701d2c427$b8846a20$298d3e60$@net> References: <006501d2c389$69072ee0$3b158ca0$@net> <04AE48B0-C46D-430A-BA26-87440176CD06@iotecdigital.com> <004701d2c427$b8846a20$298d3e60$@net> Message-ID: I have run into an issue with groups on windows where the parent group rect wasn't quite right, and all sorts of fun ensued. but no scroll involved. On Wed, May 3, 2017 at 12:10 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Thanks Bob, > > I didn't set any geometry properties. I thought that unless you explicitly > call "revUpdateGeometry" these properties have no effect. The thing that > has > me stumped is that even with messages off showing vertical scroll bar > either > by the message box or property inspector makes things move. > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On > Behalf > Of Bob Sneidar via use-livecode > Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2017 11:01 AM > To: How to use LiveCode > Cc: Bob Sneidar > Subject: Re: Scroll Bars in scrolling groups > > Is it possible that some of these controls have geometry properties set? > > Bob S > > > > On May 2, 2017, at 14:16 , Ralph DiMola via use-livecode > wrote: > > > > OK I'm stumped. I have a scrolling group consisting 20 other groups > > each with 2 fields and a button. I place these sub groups and the > > controls in them in the parent group from top to bottom. The sub > > groups go off the bottom of the parent group as expected. Everything > > looks perfect and can set the vscroll via script and see the sub > > groups that are out of view as expected. BUT.. when I show the vscroll > > bar(even with messages disabled), all the sub groups move up and to > > the left. The top sub group hugs top of the parent group and all the sub > groups hug the parent group on the left. > > Why? If I place the subgroups while the vscroll bar is visible then > > the top groups move up to the left and the remaining one stay where I > > put them. Any help would be appreciated. > > > > Thanks > > > > Win 10 LC 8.1.3/8.1.4rc1 > > > > Ralph DiMola > > IT Director > > Evergreen Information Services > > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From revdev at pdslabs.net Wed May 3 13:25:00 2017 From: revdev at pdslabs.net (Phil Davis) Date: Wed, 3 May 2017 10:25:00 -0700 Subject: 8.1.4rc1 regressions In-Reply-To: <3E182709-A31D-4DD9-B997-FFC0387628DA@iotecdigital.com> References: <3E182709-A31D-4DD9-B997-FFC0387628DA@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <79a7d29a-ae58-6f04-53d4-d2658591c16c@pdslabs.net> Same experience here. Phil Davis On 5/3/17 8:02 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > I can confirm that the script editor is buggy. If you try to close individual tabs, it borks the whole editor and no more tabs can be worked with. Scripts will not be editable and no more tabs can be closed. The only solution is to close the script editor and reopen it. > > Bob S > > >> On May 2, 2017, at 14:06 , Dr. Hawkins via use-livecode wrote: >> >> I've noticed a couple of what appear to be regressions in 8.1.4rc1. Can >> others confirm? >> >> 1) "move tab to new window" in editor doesn't seem to work; it simply >> mangles the tab bar >> 2) It did not chagne/offer to change itself to the default. At this point, >> when I use "save as" on a stack, it then opens in 7.1.4. (the "change all" >> in the finder isn't a solution; I still have stacks that I want to stay >> with 5.0) >> >> -- >> Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. >> (702) 508-8462 >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Phil Davis From waprothero at gmail.com Wed May 3 14:07:59 2017 From: waprothero at gmail.com (William Prothero) Date: Wed, 3 May 2017 11:07:59 -0700 Subject: xCode ??? version In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: When I load the app into the Simulator, with xCode 8.2.1, then go to the menu ?Hardware/Manage Devices? menu, I get the message that says: ?Could not locate device support files. The iPhone 6 is running iOS 10.3.1, which may not be supported by this version of Xcode.? So, it looks to me like Livecode 8.1.4(rc1) does not support iOS 10.3.1, the latest version. Does this seem reasonable. Xcode versions 8.3 is not supported by the latest livecode releases. Can I hope that this will be fixed soon? Bill P > On May 3, 2017, at 12:10 AM, Dave Kilroy via use-livecode wrote: > > tldr - don?t use Xcode 8.3 yet, you can still build for iOS 10.3 > > > > Bill the Release Notes are a good place to check such issues. The following is an extract for release notes for LiveCode 8.1.4(rc1) > > iOS > > iOS deployment is possible when running LiveCode IDE on a Mac, and provided Xcode is installed and has been set in LiveCode Preferences (in the Mobile Support pane). > > > 3 > > LiveCode 8.1.4-rc-1 Release Notes 4/4/17 > > Currently, the supported versions of Xcode are: > > Xcode 4.6 on MacOS X 10.7 > Xcode 5.1 on MacOS X 10.8 > Xcode 6.2 on MacOS X 10.9 > Xcode 6.2 and 7.2 on Mac OS X 10.10 Xcode 8.2 on MacOS X 10.11 > > Xcode 8.2 on MacOS 10.12 > > It is also possible to set other versions of Xcode, to allow testing on a wider range of iOS simulators. For instance, on OS X 10.10 (Yosemite), you can add Xcode 5.1 in the Mobile Support preferences, to let you test your stack on the iOS Simulator 7.1. > > We currently support deployment for the following versions of iOS: > > 6.1 [simulator] 7.1 [simulator] 8.2 [simulator] 9.2 > > 10.2 > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From waprothero at gmail.com Wed May 3 14:13:11 2017 From: waprothero at gmail.com (William Prothero) Date: Wed, 3 May 2017 11:13:11 -0700 Subject: xCode ??? version In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0C1DB546-F68C-4C1E-9FB9-AF2543F59386@gmail.com> Note: I see, from the release notes that the highest iOS version supported is 10.2. Hopefully this will change. Next update? I use my app and depend on it, so i?m keenly interested in having it on my iPhone, I probably should have waited to update the iOS system, but?? silly me. Best, Bill P > On May 3, 2017, at 11:07 AM, William Prothero via use-livecode wrote: > > When I load the app into the Simulator, with xCode 8.2.1, then go to the menu ?Hardware/Manage Devices? menu, I get the message that says: > ?Could not locate device support files. The iPhone 6 is running iOS 10.3.1, which may not be supported by this version of Xcode.? > > So, it looks to me like Livecode 8.1.4(rc1) does not support iOS 10.3.1, the latest version. > > Does this seem reasonable. > Xcode versions 8.3 is not supported by the latest livecode releases. > Can I hope that this will be fixed soon? > Bill P > >> On May 3, 2017, at 12:10 AM, Dave Kilroy via use-livecode wrote: >> >> tldr - don?t use Xcode 8.3 yet, you can still build for iOS 10.3 >> >> >> >> Bill the Release Notes are a good place to check such issues. The following is an extract for release notes for LiveCode 8.1.4(rc1) >> >> iOS >> >> iOS deployment is possible when running LiveCode IDE on a Mac, and provided Xcode is installed and has been set in LiveCode Preferences (in the Mobile Support pane). >> >> >> 3 >> >> LiveCode 8.1.4-rc-1 Release Notes 4/4/17 >> >> Currently, the supported versions of Xcode are: >> >> Xcode 4.6 on MacOS X 10.7 >> Xcode 5.1 on MacOS X 10.8 >> Xcode 6.2 on MacOS X 10.9 >> Xcode 6.2 and 7.2 on Mac OS X 10.10 Xcode 8.2 on MacOS X 10.11 >> >> Xcode 8.2 on MacOS 10.12 >> >> It is also possible to set other versions of Xcode, to allow testing on a wider range of iOS simulators. For instance, on OS X 10.10 (Yosemite), you can add Xcode 5.1 in the Mobile Support preferences, to let you test your stack on the iOS Simulator 7.1. >> >> We currently support deployment for the following versions of iOS: >> >> 6.1 [simulator] 7.1 [simulator] 8.2 [simulator] 9.2 >> >> 10.2 >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From merakosp at gmail.com Wed May 3 14:26:43 2017 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Wed, 3 May 2017 19:26:43 +0100 Subject: xCode ??? version In-Reply-To: <0C1DB546-F68C-4C1E-9FB9-AF2543F59386@gmail.com> References: <0C1DB546-F68C-4C1E-9FB9-AF2543F59386@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Bill, Several issues mentioned here: >>>>>I see, from the release notes that the highest iOS version supported is 10.2. 1) This may not be very clear, but what this means is that the highest version of *iOS SDK* which you can use **to build** the iOS standalone is 10.2. This is different from the iOS deployment target, which can be specified in the standalone settings for iOS (e.g. "10.0 or later"). This means that any app you build will run on devices with future iOS versions. 2) LiveCode 8.1.4 RC2 will support Xcode 8.3.x, e.g it will support **building** with iOS 10.3 SDK (which is included in Xcode 8.3.x) 3) Back to the original error message (?Could not locate device support files. The iPhone 6 is running iOS 10.3.1, which may not be supported by this version of Xcode.?), I think I have seen that in the past when trying to install the app into a device. I am not 100% sure (I cannot remember) but I think the app was installed, regardless of this error. Could you please double-check? Best, Panos -- On Wed, May 3, 2017 at 7:13 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Note: I see, from the release notes that the highest iOS version supported > is 10.2. > Hopefully this will change. Next update? I use my app and depend on it, so > i?m keenly interested in having it on my iPhone, I probably should have > waited to update the iOS system, but?? silly me. > Best, > Bill P > > > On May 3, 2017, at 11:07 AM, William Prothero via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > When I load the app into the Simulator, with xCode 8.2.1, then go to the > menu ?Hardware/Manage Devices? menu, I get the message that says: > > ?Could not locate device support files. The iPhone 6 is running iOS > 10.3.1, which may not be supported by this version of Xcode.? > > > > So, it looks to me like Livecode 8.1.4(rc1) does not support iOS 10.3.1, > the latest version. > > > > Does this seem reasonable. > > Xcode versions 8.3 is not supported by the latest livecode releases. > > Can I hope that this will be fixed soon? > > Bill P > > > >> On May 3, 2017, at 12:10 AM, Dave Kilroy via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> > >> tldr - don?t use Xcode 8.3 yet, you can still build for iOS 10.3 > >> > >> > >> > >> Bill the Release Notes are a good place to check such issues. The > following is an extract for release notes for LiveCode 8.1.4(rc1) > >> > >> iOS > >> > >> iOS deployment is possible when running LiveCode IDE on a Mac, and > provided Xcode is installed and has been set in LiveCode Preferences (in > the Mobile Support pane). > >> > >> > >> 3 > >> > >> LiveCode 8.1.4-rc-1 Release Notes 4/4/17 > >> > >> Currently, the supported versions of Xcode are: > >> > >> Xcode 4.6 on MacOS X 10.7 > >> Xcode 5.1 on MacOS X 10.8 > >> Xcode 6.2 on MacOS X 10.9 > >> Xcode 6.2 and 7.2 on Mac OS X 10.10 Xcode 8.2 on MacOS X 10.11 > >> > >> Xcode 8.2 on MacOS 10.12 > >> > >> It is also possible to set other versions of Xcode, to allow testing on > a wider range of iOS simulators. For instance, on OS X 10.10 (Yosemite), > you can add Xcode 5.1 in the Mobile Support preferences, to let you test > your stack on the iOS Simulator 7.1. > >> > >> We currently support deployment for the following versions of iOS: > >> > >> 6.1 [simulator] 7.1 [simulator] 8.2 [simulator] 9.2 > >> > >> 10.2 > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From paul at livecode.org Wed May 3 14:32:14 2017 From: paul at livecode.org (Paul Hibbert) Date: Wed, 3 May 2017 11:32:14 -0700 Subject: xCode ??? version In-Reply-To: <0C1DB546-F68C-4C1E-9FB9-AF2543F59386@gmail.com> References: <0C1DB546-F68C-4C1E-9FB9-AF2543F59386@gmail.com> Message-ID: <0AC22569-0A45-430E-AFAC-30C71D8603A0@livecode.org> I?ve seen this warning in Xcode when connecting my iPhone 5s after updating it, but copying my LC app on to the phone still works and the app runs OK, just can?t use the simulator. Anyway, just try it, preferably without overwriting any currently working app, and it should be fine. Paul Paul paul at livecode.org Mac OS Sierra 10.12.1 > On May 3, 2017, at 11:13 AM, William Prothero via use-livecode wrote: > > Note: I see, from the release notes that the highest iOS version supported is 10.2. > Hopefully this will change. Next update? I use my app and depend on it, so i?m keenly interested in having it on my iPhone, I probably should have waited to update the iOS system, but?? silly me. > Best, > Bill P > >> On May 3, 2017, at 11:07 AM, William Prothero via use-livecode wrote: >> >> When I load the app into the Simulator, with xCode 8.2.1, then go to the menu ?Hardware/Manage Devices? menu, I get the message that says: >> ?Could not locate device support files. The iPhone 6 is running iOS 10.3.1, which may not be supported by this version of Xcode.? >> >> So, it looks to me like Livecode 8.1.4(rc1) does not support iOS 10.3.1, the latest version. >> >> Does this seem reasonable. >> Xcode versions 8.3 is not supported by the latest livecode releases. >> Can I hope that this will be fixed soon? >> Bill P >> >>> On May 3, 2017, at 12:10 AM, Dave Kilroy via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> tldr - don?t use Xcode 8.3 yet, you can still build for iOS 10.3 >>> >>> >>> >>> Bill the Release Notes are a good place to check such issues. The following is an extract for release notes for LiveCode 8.1.4(rc1) >>> >>> iOS >>> >>> iOS deployment is possible when running LiveCode IDE on a Mac, and provided Xcode is installed and has been set in LiveCode Preferences (in the Mobile Support pane). >>> >>> >>> 3 >>> >>> LiveCode 8.1.4-rc-1 Release Notes 4/4/17 >>> >>> Currently, the supported versions of Xcode are: >>> >>> Xcode 4.6 on MacOS X 10.7 >>> Xcode 5.1 on MacOS X 10.8 >>> Xcode 6.2 on MacOS X 10.9 >>> Xcode 6.2 and 7.2 on Mac OS X 10.10 Xcode 8.2 on MacOS X 10.11 >>> >>> Xcode 8.2 on MacOS 10.12 >>> >>> It is also possible to set other versions of Xcode, to allow testing on a wider range of iOS simulators. For instance, on OS X 10.10 (Yosemite), you can add Xcode 5.1 in the Mobile Support preferences, to let you test your stack on the iOS Simulator 7.1. >>> >>> We currently support deployment for the following versions of iOS: >>> >>> 6.1 [simulator] 7.1 [simulator] 8.2 [simulator] 9.2 >>> >>> 10.2 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed May 3 14:38:26 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 3 May 2017 13:38:26 -0500 Subject: Documentation on Accelerated Rendering In-Reply-To: <47150887f7181b13cbff7ef3bf4c9c1a@livecode.com> References: <3A66C968-1180-46D8-91A3-DDFD6A11F534@hindu.org> <6bc860fb-0167-4aca-6226-8763f2008dfe@hyperactivesw.com> <47150887f7181b13cbff7ef3bf4c9c1a@livecode.com> Message-ID: <10268d79-0c0e-4ca5-9008-b20486bf48e0@hyperactivesw.com> On 5/3/17 6:00 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: > On 2017-04-30 23:52, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >> I have been wanting to know that for years. I have the general idea >> but I want to know exactly what each command or property does. How >> does layerMode interact with rendering and when should I set it? (I >> used it incorrectly and submitted a spurious bug report, but I'm still >> not clear on why I was wrong.) > > This is perhaps something we should have more clearly documented at the > time Thanks very much for the detailed explanation. It clarifies a lot for me, I really appreciate the time you took to write that up. It sounds like there will be delays in the case of objects that are created on the fly and assigned a dynamic layermode. I'm thinking of Swami's puzzle where new snapshots are created every time a new puzzle is made. These are dragged around the card by the user. I assume the buffers are destroyed when an object is deleted. When a new puzzle is started, the game deletes all the old snapshots, then creates new ones and assigns the layermode. Is there an ideal way to handle this? On iOS it's fine, on Android there is significant delay while the puzzle is built. Would changing the default compositor help? Or are we just at the mercy of the graphics card? I had originally used fields instead of snapshots thinking that would be faster, but since both are buffered as bitmaps in either case, I guess it doesn't matter. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Wed May 3 15:34:24 2017 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Wed, 3 May 2017 15:34:24 -0400 Subject: 8.1.4rc1 regressions In-Reply-To: <79a7d29a-ae58-6f04-53d4-d2658591c16c@pdslabs.net> References: <3E182709-A31D-4DD9-B997-FFC0387628DA@iotecdigital.com> <79a7d29a-ae58-6f04-53d4-d2658591c16c@pdslabs.net> Message-ID: <005a01d2c444$459a0e30$d0ce2a90$@net> Me too. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Phil Davis via use-livecode Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2017 1:25 PM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: Phil Davis Subject: Re: 8.1.4rc1 regressions Same experience here. Phil Davis On 5/3/17 8:02 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > I can confirm that the script editor is buggy. If you try to close individual tabs, it borks the whole editor and no more tabs can be worked with. Scripts will not be editable and no more tabs can be closed. The only solution is to close the script editor and reopen it. > > Bob S > > >> On May 2, 2017, at 14:06 , Dr. Hawkins via use-livecode wrote: >> >> I've noticed a couple of what appear to be regressions in 8.1.4rc1. >> Can others confirm? >> >> 1) "move tab to new window" in editor doesn't seem to work; it simply >> mangles the tab bar >> 2) It did not chagne/offer to change itself to the default. At this >> point, when I use "save as" on a stack, it then opens in 7.1.4. (the "change all" >> in the finder isn't a solution; I still have stacks that I want to >> stay with 5.0) >> >> -- >> Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. >> (702) 508-8462 >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Phil Davis _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From waprothero at gmail.com Wed May 3 15:50:50 2017 From: waprothero at gmail.com (William Prothero) Date: Wed, 3 May 2017 12:50:50 -0700 Subject: xCode ??? version In-Reply-To: References: <0C1DB546-F68C-4C1E-9FB9-AF2543F59386@gmail.com> Message-ID: Panos: Thanks for the response. Just checked. It did not install. There is a version that I made with before my upgrade to iOS 10.3.1 and it still works. But, the new version didn?t install over it. Bill > On May 3, 2017, at 11:26 AM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi Bill, > > Several issues mentioned here: > >>>>>> I see, from the release notes that the highest iOS version supported > is 10.2. > > 1) This may not be very clear, but what this means is that the highest > version of *iOS SDK* which you can use **to build** the iOS standalone is > 10.2. This is different from the iOS deployment target, which can be > specified in the standalone settings for iOS (e.g. "10.0 or later"). > This means that any app you build will run on devices with future iOS > versions. > > 2) LiveCode 8.1.4 RC2 will support Xcode 8.3.x, e.g it will support > **building** with iOS 10.3 SDK (which is included in Xcode 8.3.x) > > 3) Back to the original error message (?Could not locate device support > files. The iPhone 6 is running iOS 10.3.1, which may not be supported by > this version of Xcode.?), I think I have seen that in the past when trying > to install the app into a device. I am not 100% sure (I cannot remember) > but I think the app was installed, regardless of this error. Could you > please double-check? > > Best, > Panos > -- > > > > On Wed, May 3, 2017 at 7:13 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> Note: I see, from the release notes that the highest iOS version supported >> is 10.2. >> Hopefully this will change. Next update? I use my app and depend on it, so >> i?m keenly interested in having it on my iPhone, I probably should have >> waited to update the iOS system, but?? silly me. >> Best, >> Bill P >> >>> On May 3, 2017, at 11:07 AM, William Prothero via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> >>> When I load the app into the Simulator, with xCode 8.2.1, then go to the >> menu ?Hardware/Manage Devices? menu, I get the message that says: >>> ?Could not locate device support files. The iPhone 6 is running iOS >> 10.3.1, which may not be supported by this version of Xcode.? >>> >>> So, it looks to me like Livecode 8.1.4(rc1) does not support iOS 10.3.1, >> the latest version. >>> >>> Does this seem reasonable. >>> Xcode versions 8.3 is not supported by the latest livecode releases. >>> Can I hope that this will be fixed soon? >>> Bill P >>> >>>> On May 3, 2017, at 12:10 AM, Dave Kilroy via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> tldr - don?t use Xcode 8.3 yet, you can still build for iOS 10.3 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Bill the Release Notes are a good place to check such issues. The >> following is an extract for release notes for LiveCode 8.1.4(rc1) >>>> >>>> iOS >>>> >>>> iOS deployment is possible when running LiveCode IDE on a Mac, and >> provided Xcode is installed and has been set in LiveCode Preferences (in >> the Mobile Support pane). >>>> >>>> >>>> 3 >>>> >>>> LiveCode 8.1.4-rc-1 Release Notes 4/4/17 >>>> >>>> Currently, the supported versions of Xcode are: >>>> >>>> Xcode 4.6 on MacOS X 10.7 >>>> Xcode 5.1 on MacOS X 10.8 >>>> Xcode 6.2 on MacOS X 10.9 >>>> Xcode 6.2 and 7.2 on Mac OS X 10.10 Xcode 8.2 on MacOS X 10.11 >>>> >>>> Xcode 8.2 on MacOS 10.12 >>>> >>>> It is also possible to set other versions of Xcode, to allow testing on >> a wider range of iOS simulators. For instance, on OS X 10.10 (Yosemite), >> you can add Xcode 5.1 in the Mobile Support preferences, to let you test >> your stack on the iOS Simulator 7.1. >>>> >>>> We currently support deployment for the following versions of iOS: >>>> >>>> 6.1 [simulator] 7.1 [simulator] 8.2 [simulator] 9.2 >>>> >>>> 10.2 >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Wed May 3 15:55:58 2017 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Wed, 3 May 2017 15:55:58 -0400 Subject: Xcode ??? version In-Reply-To: <0AC22569-0A45-430E-AFAC-30C71D8603A0@livecode.org> References: <0C1DB546-F68C-4C1E-9FB9-AF2543F59386@gmail.com> <0AC22569-0A45-430E-AFAC-30C71D8603A0@livecode.org> Message-ID: <006101d2c447$48b0bcb0$da123610$@net> I can deploy to 9.3.5 and 10.3.1 using MacBook OSX 10.11.6 LC 8.1.4 rc1 Xcode 8.2.1 I do get a warning in the "Devices" window for the 10.3.1 devices but I can still install/delete/run apps. To have simulators from 6 thru 10 in the LC prefs using these versions of Xcode. 8.2.1 ==> v10.2 Simulator/SDK 7.1.2 ==> v9.2 Simulator/SDK 6.2 ==> v8.2 Simulator/SDK 5.1.1 ==> v7.1 Simulator/SDK 4.6.3 ==> v6.1 Simulator/SDK That being said.... Xcode 8.3.2 requirements: 1) OSX 10.12 (look like I'm upgrading soon...) 2) New version of LiveCode with Xcode 8.3.2 support. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Paul Hibbert via use-livecode Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2017 2:32 PM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: Paul Hibbert Subject: Re: xCode ??? version I?ve seen this warning in Xcode when connecting my iPhone 5s after updating it, but copying my LC app on to the phone still works and the app runs OK, just can?t use the simulator. Anyway, just try it, preferably without overwriting any currently working app, and it should be fine. Paul Paul paul at livecode.org Mac OS Sierra 10.12.1 > On May 3, 2017, at 11:13 AM, William Prothero via use-livecode wrote: > > Note: I see, from the release notes that the highest iOS version supported is 10.2. > Hopefully this will change. Next update? I use my app and depend on it, so i?m keenly interested in having it on my iPhone, I probably should have waited to update the iOS system, but?? silly me. > Best, > Bill P > >> On May 3, 2017, at 11:07 AM, William Prothero via use-livecode wrote: >> >> When I load the app into the Simulator, with xCode 8.2.1, then go to the menu ?Hardware/Manage Devices? menu, I get the message that says: >> ?Could not locate device support files. The iPhone 6 is running iOS 10.3.1, which may not be supported by this version of Xcode.? >> >> So, it looks to me like Livecode 8.1.4(rc1) does not support iOS 10.3.1, the latest version. >> >> Does this seem reasonable. >> Xcode versions 8.3 is not supported by the latest livecode releases. >> Can I hope that this will be fixed soon? >> Bill P >> >>> On May 3, 2017, at 12:10 AM, Dave Kilroy via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> tldr - don?t use Xcode 8.3 yet, you can still build for iOS 10.3 >>> >>> >>> >>> Bill the Release Notes are a good place to check such issues. The following is an extract for release notes for LiveCode 8.1.4(rc1) >>> >>> iOS >>> >>> iOS deployment is possible when running LiveCode IDE on a Mac, and provided Xcode is installed and has been set in LiveCode Preferences (in the Mobile Support pane). >>> >>> >>> 3 >>> >>> LiveCode 8.1.4-rc-1 Release Notes 4/4/17 >>> >>> Currently, the supported versions of Xcode are: >>> >>> Xcode 4.6 on MacOS X 10.7 >>> Xcode 5.1 on MacOS X 10.8 >>> Xcode 6.2 on MacOS X 10.9 >>> Xcode 6.2 and 7.2 on Mac OS X 10.10 Xcode 8.2 on MacOS X 10.11 >>> >>> Xcode 8.2 on MacOS 10.12 >>> >>> It is also possible to set other versions of Xcode, to allow testing on a wider range of iOS simulators. For instance, on OS X 10.10 (Yosemite), you can add Xcode 5.1 in the Mobile Support preferences, to let you test your stack on the iOS Simulator 7.1. >>> >>> We currently support deployment for the following versions of iOS: >>> >>> 6.1 [simulator] 7.1 [simulator] 8.2 [simulator] 9.2 >>> >>> 10.2 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From waprothero at gmail.com Wed May 3 16:09:11 2017 From: waprothero at gmail.com (William Prothero) Date: Wed, 3 May 2017 13:09:11 -0700 Subject: Xcode ??? version In-Reply-To: <006101d2c447$48b0bcb0$da123610$@net> References: <0C1DB546-F68C-4C1E-9FB9-AF2543F59386@gmail.com> <0AC22569-0A45-430E-AFAC-30C71D8603A0@livecode.org> <006101d2c447$48b0bcb0$da123610$@net> Message-ID: <132D08F1-8DAD-49F8-A33E-69A95C0F6376@gmail.com> Ok, you?re right! Sheesh! When I got the error alert, I assumed I couldn?t load the app on the phone. Yes, I got it loaded and it works. Sorry for the drama. Someday this whole thing will get burned into my brain and I?ll be able to easily cope with the constant updates of Xcode, IOS, and LC. Thanks for the very patient help and feedback. Best, Bill > On May 3, 2017, at 12:55 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote: > > I can deploy to 9.3.5 and 10.3.1 using > > MacBook OSX 10.11.6 > LC 8.1.4 rc1 > Xcode 8.2.1 > > I do get a warning in the "Devices" window for the 10.3.1 devices but I can still install/delete/run apps. > > To have simulators from 6 thru 10 in the LC prefs using these versions of Xcode. > > 8.2.1 ==> v10.2 Simulator/SDK > 7.1.2 ==> v9.2 Simulator/SDK > 6.2 ==> v8.2 Simulator/SDK > 5.1.1 ==> v7.1 Simulator/SDK > 4.6.3 ==> v6.1 Simulator/SDK > > That being said.... > Xcode 8.3.2 requirements: > 1) OSX 10.12 (look like I'm upgrading soon...) > 2) New version of LiveCode with Xcode 8.3.2 support. > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Paul Hibbert via use-livecode > Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2017 2:32 PM > To: How to use LiveCode > Cc: Paul Hibbert > Subject: Re: xCode ??? version > > I?ve seen this warning in Xcode when connecting my iPhone 5s after updating it, but copying my LC app on to the phone still works and the app runs OK, just can?t use the simulator. > > Anyway, just try it, preferably without overwriting any currently working app, and it should be fine. > > Paul > > Paul > paul at livecode.org > > Mac OS Sierra 10.12.1 > > > >> On May 3, 2017, at 11:13 AM, William Prothero via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Note: I see, from the release notes that the highest iOS version supported is 10.2. >> Hopefully this will change. Next update? I use my app and depend on it, so i?m keenly interested in having it on my iPhone, I probably should have waited to update the iOS system, but?? silly me. >> Best, >> Bill P >> >>> On May 3, 2017, at 11:07 AM, William Prothero via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> When I load the app into the Simulator, with xCode 8.2.1, then go to the menu ?Hardware/Manage Devices? menu, I get the message that says: >>> ?Could not locate device support files. The iPhone 6 is running iOS 10.3.1, which may not be supported by this version of Xcode.? >>> >>> So, it looks to me like Livecode 8.1.4(rc1) does not support iOS 10.3.1, the latest version. >>> >>> Does this seem reasonable. >>> Xcode versions 8.3 is not supported by the latest livecode releases. >>> Can I hope that this will be fixed soon? >>> Bill P >>> >>>> On May 3, 2017, at 12:10 AM, Dave Kilroy via use-livecode wrote: >>>> >>>> tldr - don?t use Xcode 8.3 yet, you can still build for iOS 10.3 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Bill the Release Notes are a good place to check such issues. The following is an extract for release notes for LiveCode 8.1.4(rc1) >>>> >>>> iOS >>>> >>>> iOS deployment is possible when running LiveCode IDE on a Mac, and provided Xcode is installed and has been set in LiveCode Preferences (in the Mobile Support pane). >>>> >>>> >>>> 3 >>>> >>>> LiveCode 8.1.4-rc-1 Release Notes 4/4/17 >>>> >>>> Currently, the supported versions of Xcode are: >>>> >>>> Xcode 4.6 on MacOS X 10.7 >>>> Xcode 5.1 on MacOS X 10.8 >>>> Xcode 6.2 on MacOS X 10.9 >>>> Xcode 6.2 and 7.2 on Mac OS X 10.10 Xcode 8.2 on MacOS X 10.11 >>>> >>>> Xcode 8.2 on MacOS 10.12 >>>> >>>> It is also possible to set other versions of Xcode, to allow testing on a wider range of iOS simulators. For instance, on OS X 10.10 (Yosemite), you can add Xcode 5.1 in the Mobile Support preferences, to let you test your stack on the iOS Simulator 7.1. >>>> >>>> We currently support deployment for the following versions of iOS: >>>> >>>> 6.1 [simulator] 7.1 [simulator] 8.2 [simulator] 9.2 >>>> >>>> 10.2 >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ahsoftware at sonic.net Wed May 3 16:20:43 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 3 May 2017 13:20:43 -0700 Subject: ANN: PowerTools 2.0 Message-ID: <937cce3a-58ed-408c-b4b5-ca6ab614d251@sonic.net> With the 9.0 release of LiveCode just around the corner, we're announcing the new build of PowerTools. As usual, this is a free upgrade for existing users, and it's still only $40 US for new users. PowerTools is a drop-in plugin replacement for the IDE's built-in tools palette. It gives you *better controls organization *natively-drawn controls (not monochrome svg) *improved paint tools with persistent properties *additional controls *widget organization using folders and aliases *save screen real estate (double-click to minimize or restore) *much, much more http://www.ahsoftware.net/PowerTools/PowerTools.lc -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From alex at tweedly.net Wed May 3 20:10:06 2017 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Thu, 4 May 2017 01:10:06 +0100 Subject: LIvecode quit unexpectedly errors. Message-ID: <2f4aa080-8bef-5432-b249-a4b990a55b78@tweedly.net> Sorry, I should know this .... but I guess I've been very lucky so far :-) I have just started (first time in 12 years or so of using LC/Rev) getting crashes. How do I report these ? Obviously, open a bug in QCC - but what file(s) do I need to include to help find the problem ? Thanks Alex From jonathandlynch at gmail.com Wed May 3 20:27:23 2017 From: jonathandlynch at gmail.com (jonathandlynch at gmail.com) Date: Wed, 3 May 2017 20:27:23 -0400 Subject: LIvecode quit unexpectedly errors. In-Reply-To: <2f4aa080-8bef-5432-b249-a4b990a55b78@tweedly.net> References: <2f4aa080-8bef-5432-b249-a4b990a55b78@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <2D10ED53-DC7A-4207-8CEA-80AD650BACAB@gmail.com> Is it a new installation? Sent from my iPhone > On May 3, 2017, at 8:10 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote: > > > Sorry, I should know this .... but I guess I've been very lucky so far :-) > > I have just started (first time in 12 years or so of using LC/Rev) getting crashes. > > How do I report these ? Obviously, open a bug in QCC - but what file(s) do I need to include to help find the problem ? > > > Thanks > > Alex > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From monte at appisle.net Wed May 3 20:35:40 2017 From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding) Date: Thu, 4 May 2017 10:35:40 +1000 Subject: LIvecode quit unexpectedly errors. In-Reply-To: <2f4aa080-8bef-5432-b249-a4b990a55b78@tweedly.net> References: <2f4aa080-8bef-5432-b249-a4b990a55b78@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <3B2D83F7-5821-47F2-864E-B1CDEF5EF817@appisle.net> If you are getting a crash on Mac then including the crash log is very helpful as we can symbolicate them and often see exactly where the crash is. A reliable recipe (preferably a stack that causes the crash) so we can replicate it under a debugger is also a huge help. Often without one or both of these it is hard for us to investigate. Either way Panos will ask for more info if he needs it ;-) Cheers Monte > On 4 May 2017, at 10:10 am, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote: > > > Sorry, I should know this .... but I guess I've been very lucky so far :-) > > I have just started (first time in 12 years or so of using LC/Rev) getting crashes. > > How do I report these ? Obviously, open a bug in QCC - but what file(s) do I need to include to help find the problem ? > > > Thanks > > Alex > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From blueback09 at gmail.com Wed May 3 20:54:39 2017 From: blueback09 at gmail.com (Matt Maier) Date: Wed, 3 May 2017 17:54:39 -0700 Subject: develop a hybrid app Message-ID: Any Livecode freelancers we can hire to build a hybrid app? We've got a simple web app but most of the functions it needs require direct access to the phone. lilspace.me The idea is for event organizers to incentivize and organize attendees to "focus" on the event by putting their phone away and not looking at it for a while. We've had about 100 people use the web app to track their time focusing. Sooner or later we'll need things like auto-reply, screen dimming, activity tracking, silent mode, etc so we might as well get started on that now. From ludovic.thebault at laposte.net Thu May 4 04:09:53 2017 From: ludovic.thebault at laposte.net (Ludovic) Date: Thu, 4 May 2017 10:09:53 +0200 Subject: Native input and font seize Message-ID: <04FD6A55-5300-47CA-A047-5B19D1C3A59D@laposte.net> Hello, I use this script to calculate the font size of an native input : If the systempixelscale >= 1 and the systempixelscale < 1.5 Put 30 into v-fontsize Else put 15 into v-fontsize Work with some device but on other the visible font size is huge and text is very big. How you handle this ? Thanks Ludovic From bernd.niggemann at uni-wh.de Thu May 4 08:48:56 2017 From: bernd.niggemann at uni-wh.de (BNig) Date: Thu, 4 May 2017 05:48:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ANN] tinyDictionary 0_8_1_0 Message-ID: <1493902136536-4714470.post@n4.nabble.com> TinyDictionary is a small footprint dictionary for Livecode from version 8.1 and up. New features are user added notes and import of notes. Some code optimization and cleanup. Should work on Mac, Windows and Linux. See Help from Preferences Menu. Probably best when used as plug-in. (put tinyDictionary stack into your plugin folder and restart Livecode. Then select it from Development menu -> Plugins) http://livecodeshare.runrev.com/stack/825/TinyDictionary Kind regards Bernd -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/ANN-tinyDictionary-0-8-1-0-tp4714470.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From alex at tweedly.net Thu May 4 09:36:38 2017 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Thu, 4 May 2017 14:36:38 +0100 Subject: LIvecode quit unexpectedly errors. In-Reply-To: <2D10ED53-DC7A-4207-8CEA-80AD650BACAB@gmail.com> References: <2f4aa080-8bef-5432-b249-a4b990a55b78@tweedly.net> <2D10ED53-DC7A-4207-8CEA-80AD650BACAB@gmail.com> Message-ID: <22ee0d35-d45e-994d-1fcf-2e7605643f50@tweedly.net> On 04/05/2017 01:27, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode wrote: > Is it a new installation? > No, it's 9.0.0DP6 which I've had installed and in use for a while. It's a new-ish stack that I'm having trouble with - but sadly not reliably or reproducably or even vaguely predictably. I'll send in a crash log as Monte asked - now that I've google'd it and know where to find them :-) Bug 19653 Thanks Alex. From nabble at mad.pink Thu May 4 09:25:31 2017 From: nabble at mad.pink (pink) Date: Thu, 4 May 2017 06:25:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: develop a hybrid app In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1493904331907-4714472.post@n4.nabble.com> Access to phone functions is limited. On the iPhone is it extremely limited. Can you be more specific about what you mean by "activity tracking" and "auto-reply"? Screen dimming and silent mode definitely cannot be triggered by an iPhone app, I am not sure about Android but I doubt it can be done in LiveCode without some sort of external being built. Your best bet would be to have reminders setup to say "please switch on silent mode" What else do you want such an app to do? ----- --- Greg (pink) Miller mad, pink and dangerous to code -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/develop-a-hybrid-app-tp4714468p4714472.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu May 4 10:41:12 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 04 May 2017 09:41:12 -0500 Subject: LIvecode quit unexpectedly errors. In-Reply-To: <22ee0d35-d45e-994d-1fcf-2e7605643f50@tweedly.net> References: <2f4aa080-8bef-5432-b249-a4b990a55b78@tweedly.net> <2D10ED53-DC7A-4207-8CEA-80AD650BACAB@gmail.com> <22ee0d35-d45e-994d-1fcf-2e7605643f50@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <15bd3e85b40.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> I've had the same problem with 9.0dp6, unexpected crashes, sometimes a whole string of them, also not reliably or reproducably or predictably. It may be just coincidence, but when I told the firewall to deny LC it seemed to get a little better. (I'm still getting asked about remote access on every launch.) After extended use something starts failing, always different each time, and if I continue anyway it will eventually crash. Sometimes menu keyboard shortcuts stop working, yesterday the message box refused to respond. Last week just clicking the Messages icon in the toolbar crashed LC five times in a row, today it works fine. If I could reproduce it reliably I'd report it. I've learned that when a normal action fails I need to save everything and restart. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On May 4, 2017 8:38:40 AM Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote: > On 04/05/2017 01:27, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode wrote: >> Is it a new installation? >> > No, it's 9.0.0DP6 which I've had installed and in use for a while. > > It's a new-ish stack that I'm having trouble with - but sadly not > reliably or reproducably or even vaguely predictably. > > I'll send in a crash log as Monte asked - now that I've google'd it and > know where to find them :-) > Bug 19653 > > Thanks > Alex. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at researchware.com Thu May 4 11:15:51 2017 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Thu, 4 May 2017 11:15:51 -0400 Subject: put x into URL... error on Windows network drive Message-ID: This is a long shot, but has anyone ever experienced any problems with: put into URL ("file:"&tFilespec) On network drives under Windows, specifically where the users entire "home' drive is a network drive (using Active Directory). An error occurs ("the result" is coming back non-empty), but I don;t have the specific error - this occurs at a customer site and this particular part of the code does not display the Operating System error in "the result" to the customer It does not occur every time, but frequently. This is a standalone built under a pre-LC7 version of Livecode (so pre-Unicode) so could it be a unicode character in the filespec? From blueback09 at gmail.com Thu May 4 11:24:08 2017 From: blueback09 at gmail.com (Matt Maier) Date: Thu, 4 May 2017 08:24:08 -0700 Subject: develop a hybrid app In-Reply-To: <1493904331907-4714472.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1493904331907-4714472.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: Is there a concise list of what Livecode can do on mobile devices? Activity tracking - some kind of awerenesses that the user interacted with their phone during focus time. Did they turn the screen on, did they spend time out if the lilspace app, did they send/receive messages. The idea is to trigger a "not really focusing" flag. Stuff like music and photos would be fine, 10 minutes on Facebook wouldn't. Auto-reply - prewritten messages that go out when you're focusing to explain what you're doing and when you'll be done. Like "I'm at yoga. I'll check my phone at 5". On May 4, 2017 06:37, "pink via use-livecode" wrote: Access to phone functions is limited. On the iPhone is it extremely limited. Can you be more specific about what you mean by "activity tracking" and "auto-reply"? Screen dimming and silent mode definitely cannot be triggered by an iPhone app, I am not sure about Android but I doubt it can be done in LiveCode without some sort of external being built. Your best bet would be to have reminders setup to say "please switch on silent mode" What else do you want such an app to do? ----- --- Greg (pink) Miller mad, pink and dangerous to code -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution. 278305.n4.nabble.com/develop-a-hybrid-app-tp4714468p4714472.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu May 4 11:37:20 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 4 May 2017 08:37:20 -0700 Subject: put x into URL... error on Windows network drive In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2b4db995-40f8-3f9b-33f9-9710d9197a0c@fourthworld.com> Paul Dupuis wrote: > This is a long shot, but has anyone ever experienced any problems > with: > > put into URL ("file:"&tFilespec) > > On network drives under Windows, specifically where the users entire > "home' drive is a network drive (using Active Directory). > > An error occurs ("the result" is coming back non-empty), but I don;t > have the specific error - this occurs at a customer site and this > particular part of the code does not display the Operating System > error in "the result" to the customer > > It does not occur every time, but frequently. > > This is a standalone built under a pre-LC7 version of Livecode (so > pre-Unicode) so could it be a unicode character in the filespec? With file I/O I've gotten into the habit of adding a call to the sysError function to let the OS provide the specific error code related to the failure, e.g.: put tSomething into url tSomeFile if the result is not empty then answer the result && "(" & sysError() &")" exit to top end if -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu May 4 11:39:32 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 4 May 2017 08:39:32 -0700 Subject: develop a hybrid app In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47712add-de3e-177c-7cb9-0198a4bd0534@fourthworld.com> Matt Maier wrote: > Is there a concise list of what Livecode can do on mobile devices? I'm not sure, but filtering the Dictionary with "mobile" will reveal language elements specific to those platforms. > Auto-reply - prewritten messages that go out when you're focusing to > explain what you're doing and when you'll be done. Like "I'm at yoga. > I'll check my phone at 5". That would be handled on the server, no? What are you using on the backend? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From paul at researchware.com Thu May 4 12:05:17 2017 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Thu, 4 May 2017 12:05:17 -0400 Subject: put x into URL... error on Windows network drive In-Reply-To: <2b4db995-40f8-3f9b-33f9-9710d9197a0c@fourthworld.com> References: <2b4db995-40f8-3f9b-33f9-9710d9197a0c@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On 5/4/2017 11:37 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > Paul Dupuis wrote: > > > This is a long shot, but has anyone ever experienced any problems > > with: > > > > put into URL ("file:"&tFilespec) > > > > On network drives under Windows, specifically where the users entire > > "home' drive is a network drive (using Active Directory). > > > > An error occurs ("the result" is coming back non-empty), but I don;t > > have the specific error - this occurs at a customer site and this > > particular part of the code does not display the Operating System > > error in "the result" to the customer > > > > It does not occur every time, but frequently. > > > > This is a standalone built under a pre-LC7 version of Livecode (so > > pre-Unicode) so could it be a unicode character in the filespec? > > > With file I/O I've gotten into the habit of adding a call to the > sysError function to let the OS provide the specific error code > related to the failure, e.g.: > > put tSomething into url tSomeFile > if the result is not empty then > answer the result && "(" & sysError() &")" > exit to top > end if > Yes, I wholeheartedly agree. Even when trying to create very simple explanatory error messages for consumption by "average" users, it is good practice to add the actual error codes - even if in a small font at the bottom of the message. Unfortunately, the error code/message got left out in this one part of the code. From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Thu May 4 12:29:07 2017 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Thu, 4 May 2017 12:29:07 -0400 Subject: phx_dropboxLib and v1 deprecation Message-ID: Has anyone come up with a migration guide to get to v2? I know that we have a v2 lib available, but has anyone moved a phx_dropboxLib-connected app to v2? -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From blueback09 at gmail.com Thu May 4 12:31:00 2017 From: blueback09 at gmail.com (Matt Maier) Date: Thu, 4 May 2017 09:31:00 -0700 Subject: develop a hybrid app In-Reply-To: <47712add-de3e-177c-7cb9-0198a4bd0534@fourthworld.com> References: <47712add-de3e-177c-7cb9-0198a4bd0534@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On Thu, May 4, 2017 at 8:39 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Matt Maier wrote: > > > Is there a concise list of what Livecode can do on mobile devices? > > I'm not sure, but filtering the Dictionary with "mobile" will reveal > language elements specific to those platforms. Okay, so am I doing it right if I find "mobileIdleTimerLocked()" and interpret it to mean that on both ios and android I can find out if the user has interacted with the phone because mobileIdleTimerLocked will be false. Or mobileComposeTextMessage will let us bring up a texting program with a message, but the user would still have to send it. I don't see much else. > > > > > Auto-reply - prewritten messages that go out when you're focusing to > > explain what you're doing and when you'll be done. Like "I'm at yoga. > > I'll check my phone at 5". > > That would be handled on the server, no? > Wouldn't we need something on the phone to know that a call or text is coming in? > > What are you using on the backend? Bubble.is. It's just a web app right now. The idea is to make it "hybrid" enough to access phone activity like incoming messages and interaction. > > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From revdev at pdslabs.net Thu May 4 12:41:53 2017 From: revdev at pdslabs.net (Phil Davis) Date: Thu, 4 May 2017 09:41:53 -0700 Subject: put x into URL... error on Windows network drive In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Is there any possibility that the network drive has spun down? I haven't tried it in recent versions of LC, but long ago I found I could get "the detailed files" of some folder on a sleeping drive and that would cause it to wake up! Food for thought - Phil Davis On 5/4/17 8:15 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > This is a long shot, but has anyone ever experienced any problems with: > > put into URL ("file:"&tFilespec) > > On network drives under Windows, specifically where the users entire > "home' drive is a network drive (using Active Directory). > > An error occurs ("the result" is coming back non-empty), but I don;t > have the specific error - this occurs at a customer site and this > particular part of the code does not display the Operating System error > in "the result" to the customer > > It does not occur every time, but frequently. > > This is a standalone built under a pre-LC7 version of Livecode (so > pre-Unicode) so could it be a unicode character in the filespec? > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Phil Davis From paul at researchware.com Thu May 4 12:56:22 2017 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Thu, 4 May 2017 12:56:22 -0400 Subject: put x into URL... error on Windows network drive In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <85c79140-f6f1-ee46-7766-a3df7d56bae9@researchware.com> On 5/4/2017 12:41 PM, Phil Davis via use-livecode wrote: > Is there any possibility that the network drive has spun down? I > haven't tried it in recent versions of LC, but long ago I found I > could get "the detailed files" of some folder on a sleeping drive and > that would cause it to wake up! > > Food for thought - > Phil Davis Interesting suggestion. Thanks. This is a mid-size university, so my guess is that the server is in a real data center with a fair number of faculty and students accessing it. Timing out is a possibility we're looking into. It could be server load related? From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu May 4 13:11:53 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 4 May 2017 10:11:53 -0700 Subject: develop a hybrid app In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Matt Maier wrote: > On Thu, May 4, 2017 at 8:39 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > >> Matt Maier wrote: >> > Is there a concise list of what Livecode can do on mobile devices? >> >> I'm not sure, but filtering the Dictionary with "mobile" will reveal >> language elements specific to those platforms. > > Okay, so am I doing it right if I find "mobileIdleTimerLocked()" and > interpret it to mean that on both ios and android I can find out if > the user has interacted with the phone because mobileIdleTimerLocked > will be false. Or mobileComposeTextMessage will let us bring up a > texting program with a message, but the user would still have to send > it. > > I don't see much else. ...for that specific question. For the original question of "what LiveCode can do on mobile devices", when I filter the Dictionary with "mobile" I see dozens of language tokens. >> > Auto-reply - prewritten messages that go out when you're focusing >> > to explain what you're doing and when you'll be done. Like "I'm at >> > yoga. I'll check my phone at 5". >> >> That would be handled on the server, no? > > Wouldn't we need something on the phone to know that a call or text is > coming in? Ah, I see. As worded it wasn't clear what the app would be replying to. I don't believe LC currently offers a built-in solution for altering how incoming calls are handled, but if iOS provides an API for that you could write a library for it with LC Builder. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From blueback09 at gmail.com Thu May 4 14:02:15 2017 From: blueback09 at gmail.com (Matt Maier) Date: Thu, 4 May 2017 11:02:15 -0700 Subject: develop a hybrid app In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: What's a language token? On Thu, May 4, 2017 at 10:11 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Matt Maier wrote: > > > On Thu, May 4, 2017 at 8:39 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > > >> Matt Maier wrote: > >> > Is there a concise list of what Livecode can do on mobile devices? > >> > >> I'm not sure, but filtering the Dictionary with "mobile" will reveal > >> language elements specific to those platforms. > > > > Okay, so am I doing it right if I find "mobileIdleTimerLocked()" and > > interpret it to mean that on both ios and android I can find out if > > the user has interacted with the phone because mobileIdleTimerLocked > > will be false. Or mobileComposeTextMessage will let us bring up a > > texting program with a message, but the user would still have to send > > it. > > > > I don't see much else. > > ...for that specific question. For the original question of "what > LiveCode can do on mobile devices", when I filter the Dictionary with > "mobile" I see dozens of language tokens. > > > >> > Auto-reply - prewritten messages that go out when you're focusing > >> > to explain what you're doing and when you'll be done. Like "I'm at > >> > yoga. I'll check my phone at 5". > >> > >> That would be handled on the server, no? > > > > Wouldn't we need something on the phone to know that a call or text is > > coming in? > > Ah, I see. As worded it wasn't clear what the app would be replying to. > > I don't believe LC currently offers a built-in solution for altering how > incoming calls are handled, but if iOS provides an API for that you could > write a library for it with LC Builder. > > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From revolution at derbrill.de Thu May 4 14:34:06 2017 From: revolution at derbrill.de (Malte Brill) Date: Thu, 4 May 2017 20:34:06 +0200 Subject: Calling a livecode executable -ui from LC server and get back a result. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7D8436CF-8CDD-41D9-8F54-C12AFA08333A@derbrill.de> Hi all, has anybody successfully done this? Especially on Windows? I would like to launch a livecode built application from a liveCode server script and get the output back (on a Server that I control) Is that possible? If so, how? I tried a couple of things to no avail: " put the time put "
" put Quote & "thes.exe" & Quote &&"-ui" into tShell try get shell(tShell) put "Result:" && the result & cr &"It:" && it put "
" open process tShell for binary read read from process tShell until EOF put "Result:" && the result & cr &"It:" && it put "
" catch theErr put theErr end try put cr put the time put "" ?> the helper app: In the stack script: on startup send "boo" to me in 500 millisecs ? to make sure all libs are loaded end startup on boo quit end boo on shutdown write "boo" to stdout end shutdown Thanks for all input I can get? Malte From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu May 4 14:51:03 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 4 May 2017 11:51:03 -0700 Subject: develop a hybrid app In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7a89e68b-1e36-3dd1-f3b3-8d58bd58832d@fourthworld.com> Matt Maier wrote: > What's a language token? It's just a generic term for the superset of all language elements that include messages, functions, operators, control structures, etc. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.co From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Thu May 4 14:51:16 2017 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Thu, 4 May 2017 14:51:16 -0400 Subject: develop a hybrid app In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The short answer is "nope". ? If you have a smart watch, you know that the apps run on the watch, not on the phone, so even if you get the phone, the watch still wins. ? There is a reason why Nissan is proposing adding Faraday cages to the center console of the Juke ( https://www.google.com/search?q=nissan+faraday+cage&oq=nissan+faraday+cage&aqs=chrome..69i57.3488j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8) - because your ability to conrol someone's phone, or see what they are doing when your app is not in the foreground, is extremely limited, especially on ios. ? Similarly, "Cinemode" does not work in Cinemark's app on ios ( https://www.google.com/search?q=cinemode&oq=cinemode&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.1737j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8) even though it's a great idea. ? That has nothing to do with LC, it's an Apple thing. Apple is also very picky about what you can and cannot do when the phone is asleep and when your app is not in the foreground. AFA screen dimming, activity tracking, muting, etc. you can't get there from here on ios. ? You also can't hope to keep your app in the foreground, keep it active while the phone sleeps, and keep the app pinging your server from ios to tell the server that the user's phone is not doing anything ? You will note that there are plenty of parental control apps for Android that allow parents to kill devices between hours x and y. On ios, there are no such apps. On Thu, May 4, 2017 at 2:02 PM, Matt Maier via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > What's a language token? > > On Thu, May 4, 2017 at 10:11 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > Matt Maier wrote: > > > > > On Thu, May 4, 2017 at 8:39 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > > > > >> Matt Maier wrote: > > >> > Is there a concise list of what Livecode can do on mobile devices? > > >> > > >> I'm not sure, but filtering the Dictionary with "mobile" will reveal > > >> language elements specific to those platforms. > > > > > > Okay, so am I doing it right if I find "mobileIdleTimerLocked()" and > > > interpret it to mean that on both ios and android I can find out if > > > the user has interacted with the phone because mobileIdleTimerLocked > > > will be false. Or mobileComposeTextMessage will let us bring up a > > > texting program with a message, but the user would still have to send > > > it. > > > > > > I don't see much else. > > > > ...for that specific question. For the original question of "what > > LiveCode can do on mobile devices", when I filter the Dictionary with > > "mobile" I see dozens of language tokens. > > > > > > >> > Auto-reply - prewritten messages that go out when you're focusing > > >> > to explain what you're doing and when you'll be done. Like "I'm at > > >> > yoga. I'll check my phone at 5". > > >> > > >> That would be handled on the server, no? > > > > > > Wouldn't we need something on the phone to know that a call or text is > > > coming in? > > > > Ah, I see. As worded it wasn't clear what the app would be replying to. > > > > I don't believe LC currently offers a built-in solution for altering how > > incoming calls are handled, but if iOS provides an API for that you could > > write a library for it with LC Builder. > > > > > > -- > > Richard Gaskin > > Fourth World Systems > > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Thu May 4 14:54:43 2017 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Thu, 4 May 2017 14:54:43 -0400 Subject: [ANN] tinyDictionary 0_8_1_0 In-Reply-To: <1493902136536-4714470.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1493902136536-4714470.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: The latest feature, importing notes, is pretty darn cool. Now if we can get someone to compile and distribute notes when something comes up, here, that would be really cool. On Thu, May 4, 2017 at 8:48 AM, BNig via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > TinyDictionary is a small footprint dictionary for Livecode from version > 8.1 > and up. > > New features are user added notes and import of notes. Some code > optimization and cleanup. > Should work on Mac, Windows and Linux. > See Help from Preferences Menu. > > Probably best when used as plug-in. (put tinyDictionary stack into your > plugin folder and restart Livecode. Then select it from Development menu -> > Plugins) > > http://livecodeshare.runrev.com/stack/825/TinyDictionary > > Kind regards > Bernd > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution. > 278305.n4.nabble.com/ANN-tinyDictionary-0-8-1-0-tp4714470.html > Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu May 4 15:04:49 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 4 May 2017 12:04:49 -0700 Subject: develop a hybrid app In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Mike Kerner wrote: > ? There is a reason why Nissan is proposing adding Faraday cages to > the center console of the Juke ( > https://www.google.com/search?q=nissan+faraday+cage&oq=nissan+faraday+cage&aqs=chrome..69i57.3488j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8) > - because your ability to conrol someone's phone, or see what they are > doing when your app is not in the foreground, is extremely limited, > especially on ios. > ? Similarly, "Cinemode" does not work in Cinemark's app on ios ( > https://www.google.com/search?q=cinemode&oq=cinemode&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.1737j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8) > even though it's a great idea. > ? That has nothing to do with LC, it's an Apple thing. Apple is also > very picky about what you can and cannot do when the phone is asleep > and when your app is not in the foreground. How do call blockers apps work? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Thu May 4 15:06:10 2017 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Thu, 4 May 2017 15:06:10 -0400 Subject: Documentation on Accelerated Rendering In-Reply-To: <10268d79-0c0e-4ca5-9008-b20486bf48e0@hyperactivesw.com> References: <3A66C968-1180-46D8-91A3-DDFD6A11F534@hindu.org> <6bc860fb-0167-4aca-6226-8763f2008dfe@hyperactivesw.com> <47150887f7181b13cbff7ef3bf4c9c1a@livecode.com> <10268d79-0c0e-4ca5-9008-b20486bf48e0@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: I think I want to have Mark's baby. On Wed, May 3, 2017 at 2:38 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On 5/3/17 6:00 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: > >> On 2017-04-30 23:52, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >> >>> I have been wanting to know that for years. I have the general idea >>> but I want to know exactly what each command or property does. How >>> does layerMode interact with rendering and when should I set it? (I >>> used it incorrectly and submitted a spurious bug report, but I'm still >>> not clear on why I was wrong.) >>> >> >> This is perhaps something we should have more clearly documented at the >> time >> > > Thanks very much for the detailed explanation. It clarifies a lot for me, > I really appreciate the time you took to write that up. > > It sounds like there will be delays in the case of objects that are > created on the fly and assigned a dynamic layermode. I'm thinking of > Swami's puzzle where new snapshots are created every time a new puzzle is > made. These are dragged around the card by the user. > > I assume the buffers are destroyed when an object is deleted. When a new > puzzle is started, the game deletes all the old snapshots, then creates new > ones and assigns the layermode. Is there an ideal way to handle this? On > iOS it's fine, on Android there is significant delay while the puzzle is > built. > > Would changing the default compositor help? Or are we just at the mercy of > the graphics card? > > I had originally used fields instead of snapshots thinking that would be > faster, but since both are buffered as bitmaps in either case, I guess it > doesn't matter. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu May 4 15:07:13 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 4 May 2017 12:07:13 -0700 Subject: [ANN] tinyDictionary 0_8_1_0 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Mike Kerner wrote: > The latest feature, importing notes, is pretty darn cool. Now if we > can get someone to compile and distribute notes when something comes > up, here, that would be really cool. If notes need to be centrally curated anyway, could we just add those to the relevant Dictionary entries in the source markdown in the LC Github repo? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Thu May 4 15:07:22 2017 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Thu, 4 May 2017 15:07:22 -0400 Subject: develop a hybrid app In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Oh, yes, and as usual, any incorrect statements I made in said post are simply evidence that my account has been Sims'd, not that I don't know what I'm talking about. On Thu, May 4, 2017 at 2:51 PM, Mike Kerner wrote: > The short answer is "nope". > ? If you have a smart watch, you know that the apps run on the watch, not > on the phone, so even if you get the phone, the watch still wins. > ? There is a reason why Nissan is proposing adding Faraday cages to the > center console of the Juke (https://www.google.com/ > search?q=nissan+faraday+cage&oq=nissan+faraday+cage&aqs= > chrome..69i57.3488j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8) - because your ability > to conrol someone's phone, or see what they are doing when your app is not > in the foreground, is extremely limited, especially on ios. > ? Similarly, "Cinemode" does not work in Cinemark's app on ios ( > https://www.google.com/search?q=cinemode&oq=cinemode& > aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.1737j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8) even though it's > a great idea. > ? That has nothing to do with LC, it's an Apple thing. Apple is also very > picky about what you can and cannot do when the phone is asleep and when > your app is not in the foreground. AFA screen dimming, activity tracking, > muting, etc. you can't get there from here on ios. > ? You also can't hope to keep your app in the foreground, keep it active > while the phone sleeps, and keep the app pinging your server from ios to > tell the server that the user's phone is not doing anything > ? You will note that there are plenty of parental control apps for Android > that allow parents to kill devices between hours x and y. On ios, there > are no such apps. > > On Thu, May 4, 2017 at 2:02 PM, Matt Maier via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> What's a language token? >> >> On Thu, May 4, 2017 at 10:11 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >> > Matt Maier wrote: >> > >> > > On Thu, May 4, 2017 at 8:39 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> > > >> > >> Matt Maier wrote: >> > >> > Is there a concise list of what Livecode can do on mobile devices? >> > >> >> > >> I'm not sure, but filtering the Dictionary with "mobile" will reveal >> > >> language elements specific to those platforms. >> > > >> > > Okay, so am I doing it right if I find "mobileIdleTimerLocked()" and >> > > interpret it to mean that on both ios and android I can find out if >> > > the user has interacted with the phone because mobileIdleTimerLocked >> > > will be false. Or mobileComposeTextMessage will let us bring up a >> > > texting program with a message, but the user would still have to send >> > > it. >> > > >> > > I don't see much else. >> > >> > ...for that specific question. For the original question of "what >> > LiveCode can do on mobile devices", when I filter the Dictionary with >> > "mobile" I see dozens of language tokens. >> > >> > >> > >> > Auto-reply - prewritten messages that go out when you're focusing >> > >> > to explain what you're doing and when you'll be done. Like "I'm at >> > >> > yoga. I'll check my phone at 5". >> > >> >> > >> That would be handled on the server, no? >> > > >> > > Wouldn't we need something on the phone to know that a call or text is >> > > coming in? >> > >> > Ah, I see. As worded it wasn't clear what the app would be replying to. >> > >> > I don't believe LC currently offers a built-in solution for altering how >> > incoming calls are handled, but if iOS provides an API for that you >> could >> > write a library for it with LC Builder. >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Richard Gaskin >> > Fourth World Systems >> > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web >> > ____________________________________________________________________ >> > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > use-livecode mailing list >> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> > subscription preferences: >> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Thu May 4 15:09:49 2017 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Thu, 4 May 2017 15:09:49 -0400 Subject: [ANN] tinyDictionary 0_8_1_0 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sure, but as you can see, that isn't happening, and tinydict isn't part of LC, it's separate, as Bernd has requested. On Thu, May 4, 2017 at 3:07 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Mike Kerner wrote: > > > The latest feature, importing notes, is pretty darn cool. Now if we > > can get someone to compile and distribute notes when something comes > > up, here, that would be really cool. > > If notes need to be centrally curated anyway, could we just add those to > the relevant Dictionary entries in the source markdown in the LC Github > repo? > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Thu May 4 15:11:44 2017 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Thu, 4 May 2017 15:11:44 -0400 Subject: develop a hybrid app In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You can't block outbound calls on ios, only inbound, and only based on caller id From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu May 4 15:46:02 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 4 May 2017 12:46:02 -0700 Subject: [ANN] tinyDictionary 0_8_1_0 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Mike Kerner wrote: > On Thu, May 4, 2017 at 3:07 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > >> Mike Kerner wrote: >> > The latest feature, importing notes, is pretty darn cool. Now if >> > we can get someone to compile and distribute notes when something >> > comes up, here, that would be really cool. >> >> If notes need to be centrally curated anyway, could we just add >> those to the relevant Dictionary entries in the source markdown in >> the LC Github repo? > > Sure, but as you can see, that isn't happening, and tinydict isn't > part of LC, it's separate, as Bernd has requested. Exactly. If folks aren't writing them now where everyone in all IDE components can use them, what are the chances they'll starting writing them anywhere else for a subset of the audience? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Thu May 4 15:51:22 2017 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Thu, 4 May 2017 15:51:22 -0400 Subject: [ANN] tinyDictionary 0_8_1_0 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The cool thing about TD is that you don't necessarily have to write anything. For example, Mark's AR note from yesterday can be installed into TD as-is, which is exactly what Bernd did, yesterday. He copied and pasted the email into a text file and sent it to me. A couple of clicks later, and Mark's email was attached to acceleratedRendering. As I found out when I was trying to get some changes submitted for the dictionary, there is a lot more to getting it formatted for a dictionary entry. For a note, not so much. It's a note, a comment, etc. You can use TD more like a wiki. On Thu, May 4, 2017 at 3:46 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Mike Kerner wrote: > > > On Thu, May 4, 2017 at 3:07 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > > >> Mike Kerner wrote: > >> > The latest feature, importing notes, is pretty darn cool. Now if > >> > we can get someone to compile and distribute notes when something > >> > comes up, here, that would be really cool. > >> > >> If notes need to be centrally curated anyway, could we just add > >> those to the relevant Dictionary entries in the source markdown in > >> the LC Github repo? > > > > Sure, but as you can see, that isn't happening, and tinydict isn't > > part of LC, it's separate, as Bernd has requested. > > Exactly. If folks aren't writing them now where everyone in all IDE > components can use them, what are the chances they'll starting writing them > anywhere else for a subset of the audience? > > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu May 4 16:28:28 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 4 May 2017 13:28:28 -0700 Subject: [ANN] tinyDictionary 0_8_1_0 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3a80ae20-5b05-8b93-c554-c14a40e13e85@fourthworld.com> Mike Kerner wrote: > The cool thing about TD is that you don't necessarily have to write > anything. For example, Mark's AR note from yesterday can be > installed into TD as-is, which is exactly what Bernd did, yesterday. > He copied and pasted the email into a text file and sent it to me. A > couple of clicks later, and Mark's email was attached to > acceleratedRendering. As I found out when I was trying to get some > changes submitted for the dictionary, there is a lot more to getting > it formatted for a dictionary entry. For a note, not so > much. It's a note, a comment, etc. You can use TD more like a wiki. Good point. What we have with that post and many others like it are effectively Tech Notes, distinct from Dictionary Entries and Tutorials. It's nice that Bernd has the time and interest in maintaining such a collection, but as you noted his Dictionary is separate from the IDE, and as such those Tech Notes are lost to the majority of LC users (except for those using TD and the handful of us who've been obsessively bookmarking such things over the years). It seems that both TD users and everyone else might benefit from a knowledge base of Tech Notes if they were made part of the LC repo, and the LC docs system extended to include them along with the other forms of learning materials. With a central place for a Tech Note repository, Bernd's work would be simplified by merely adding one extension to his system and everything there comes along for the ride. But beyond saving Bernd the extra work, such content would be in a form that could benefit the entire LC audience, no matter which mix of plugins that may be using at any given time. A wiki might be a suitable alternative to a Mardwon-centric repo like Github. MaxV has a wiki, and I've offered before (and my offer still stands) to migrate that content to one of my LiveCode domains like LiveCodeJournal.com using Wikimedia, the package Wikipedia uses, so we can have the flexibility of a proven wiki engine but without the ads that are an understandable by-product of a free hosting service. TL;DR: Less formal Tech Notes are a valuable part of our community's collective knowledge base, and it would be ideal to have a curated collection of them. Once we do, any tools that could benefit from including them could do so easily. The value of the information is proportionate to the size of the audience reading it. The more easily informal Tech Notes can be available to everyone, the more the community as a whole can realize their value. IMO the format and location of the collection is less important than that it exists. A pile of text files in a server directory today would be more valuable than a perfectly-formatted collection that doesn't exist. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Thu May 4 16:48:32 2017 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Thu, 4 May 2017 16:48:32 -0400 Subject: [ANN] tinyDictionary 0_8_1_0 In-Reply-To: <3a80ae20-5b05-8b93-c554-c14a40e13e85@fourthworld.com> References: <3a80ae20-5b05-8b93-c554-c14a40e13e85@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: exactly On Thu, May 4, 2017 at 4:28 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Mike Kerner wrote: > > > The cool thing about TD is that you don't necessarily have to write > > anything. For example, Mark's AR note from yesterday can be > > installed into TD as-is, which is exactly what Bernd did, yesterday. > > He copied and pasted the email into a text file and sent it to me. A > > couple of clicks later, and Mark's email was attached to > > acceleratedRendering. As I found out when I was trying to get some > > changes submitted for the dictionary, there is a lot more to getting > > it formatted for a dictionary entry. For a note, not so > > much. It's a note, a comment, etc. You can use TD more like a wiki. > > Good point. What we have with that post and many others like it are > effectively Tech Notes, distinct from Dictionary Entries and Tutorials. > > It's nice that Bernd has the time and interest in maintaining such a > collection, but as you noted his Dictionary is separate from the IDE, and > as such those Tech Notes are lost to the majority of LC users (except for > those using TD and the handful of us who've been obsessively bookmarking > such things over the years). > > It seems that both TD users and everyone else might benefit from a > knowledge base of Tech Notes if they were made part of the LC repo, and the > LC docs system extended to include them along with the other forms of > learning materials. > > With a central place for a Tech Note repository, Bernd's work would be > simplified by merely adding one extension to his system and everything > there comes along for the ride. > > But beyond saving Bernd the extra work, such content would be in a form > that could benefit the entire LC audience, no matter which mix of plugins > that may be using at any given time. > > A wiki might be a suitable alternative to a Mardwon-centric repo like > Github. MaxV has a wiki, and I've offered before (and my offer still > stands) to migrate that content to one of my LiveCode domains like > LiveCodeJournal.com using Wikimedia, the package Wikipedia uses, so we can > have the flexibility of a proven wiki engine but without the ads that are > an understandable by-product of a free hosting service. > > > TL;DR: > > Less formal Tech Notes are a valuable part of our community's collective > knowledge base, and it would be ideal to have a curated collection of them. > > Once we do, any tools that could benefit from including them could do so > easily. > > The value of the information is proportionate to the size of the audience > reading it. The more easily informal Tech Notes can be available to > everyone, the more the community as a whole can realize their value. > > IMO the format and location of the collection is less important than that > it exists. > > A pile of text files in a server directory today would be more valuable > than a perfectly-formatted collection that doesn't exist. > > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From nabble at mad.pink Thu May 4 16:37:25 2017 From: nabble at mad.pink (pink) Date: Thu, 4 May 2017 13:37:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ANN] tinyDictionary 0_8_1_0 In-Reply-To: <1493902136536-4714470.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1493902136536-4714470.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <1493930245751-4714498.post@n4.nabble.com> BNig wrote > TinyDictionary is a small footprint dictionary for Livecode from version > 8.1 and up. > > New features are user added notes and import of notes. Some code > optimization and cleanup. > Should work on Mac, Windows and Linux. > See Help from Preferences Menu. > > Probably best when used as plug-in. (put tinyDictionary stack into your > plugin folder and restart Livecode. Then select it from Development menu > -> Plugins) > > http://livecodeshare.runrev.com/stack/825/TinyDictionary > > Kind regards > Bernd Would user added notes persist across different versions of LiveCode, or would the need to added again each time a new version of LiveCode comes out? ----- --- Greg (pink) Miller mad, pink and dangerous to code -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/ANN-tinyDictionary-0-8-1-0-tp4714470p4714498.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Thu May 4 16:50:55 2017 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Thu, 4 May 2017 16:50:55 -0400 Subject: [ANN] tinyDictionary 0_8_1_0 In-Reply-To: <1493930245751-4714498.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1493902136536-4714470.post@n4.nabble.com> <1493930245751-4714498.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: The notes are part of TD, not LC. On Thu, May 4, 2017 at 4:37 PM, pink via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > BNig wrote > > TinyDictionary is a small footprint dictionary for Livecode from version > > 8.1 and up. > > > > New features are user added notes and import of notes. Some code > > optimization and cleanup. > > Should work on Mac, Windows and Linux. > > See Help from Preferences Menu. > > > > Probably best when used as plug-in. (put tinyDictionary stack into your > > plugin folder and restart Livecode. Then select it from Development menu > > -> Plugins) > > > > http://livecodeshare.runrev.com/stack/825/TinyDictionary > > > > Kind regards > > Bernd > > Would user added notes persist across different versions of LiveCode, or > would the need to added again each time a new version of LiveCode comes > out? > > > > ----- > --- > Greg (pink) Miller > mad, pink and dangerous to code > -- > View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution. > 278305.n4.nabble.com/ANN-tinyDictionary-0-8-1-0-tp4714470p4714498.html > Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From bernd.niggemann at uni-wh.de Thu May 4 17:11:21 2017 From: bernd.niggemann at uni-wh.de (BNig) Date: Thu, 4 May 2017 14:11:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ANN] tinyDictionary 0_8_1_0 In-Reply-To: <1493930245751-4714498.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1493902136536-4714470.post@n4.nabble.com> <1493930245751-4714498.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <1493932281472-4714501.post@n4.nabble.com> pink wrote > > BNig wrote >> TinyDictionary is a small footprint dictionary for Livecode from version >> 8.1 and up. >> >> New features are user added notes and import of notes. Some code >> optimization and cleanup. >> Should work on Mac, Windows and Linux. >> See Help from Preferences Menu. >> >> Probably best when used as plug-in. (put tinyDictionary stack into your >> plugin folder and restart Livecode. Then select it from Development menu >> -> Plugins) >> >> http://livecodeshare.runrev.com/stack/825/TinyDictionary >> >> Kind regards >> Bernd > Would user added notes persist across different versions of LiveCode, or > would the need to added again each time a new version of LiveCode comes > out? As Mike wrote the notes are stored in an arrayEncoded array in Application Support -> LCTinyDict -> tinyDictNotes.array They identify a dictionary by a combination of Keyword Type and Library. TinyDict uses the current version of LC Dictionary it is running in. That means regardless of version or license the dictionary is up to date. (all those differences give you slightly different dictionaries) If that version of your dictionary has an entry that matches an entry in tinyDictNotes.array then the note will be shown. No need to rewrite the note. You can take your tinyDictNotes.array file, zip it and import it into your tinyDict running on a different computer or send it off to someone else. tinyDictNotes.array will be merged into your existing notes by appending the imported notes to the existing notes. Notes came into being because they were mentioned a couple of times as a useful feature of a community dictionary. They are primarily intended as a means to keep personal notes, workarounds, reminders, etc. Not more not less. Kind regards Bernd -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/ANN-tinyDictionary-0-8-1-0-tp4714470p4714501.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu May 4 17:57:06 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 4 May 2017 21:57:06 +0000 Subject: [ANN] tinyDictionary 0_8_1_0 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1ECE53A0-39A7-44D0-8B94-DDFE4522E81B@iotecdigital.com> The reason I never added notes is because I've bee nwrong about something or misunderstood something so many times I feel reticent to make any comments about how something works. Bob S > On May 4, 2017, at 12:46 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > Exactly. If folks aren't writing them now where everyone in all IDE components can use them, what are the chances they'll starting writing them anywhere else for a subset of the audience? > > -- > Richard Gaskin From harrison at all-auctions.com Thu May 4 19:07:39 2017 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison) Date: Thu, 4 May 2017 19:07:39 -0400 Subject: develop a hybrid app In-Reply-To: References: <1493904331907-4714472.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <7FC2E00F-DABB-4D17-893F-C743F3410184@all-auctions.com> Hi Matt, Apple has made it extremely difficult to do anything which accesses other apps or functions outside of your own app. Everything is ?sandboxed? to make sure that your app doesn?t interfere with anyone else?s app or other Apple apps. Apple has made sure that one can?t make a better iTunes app very easily at all. Go ahead and try if you like, you will discover it to be quite difficult. Apple doesn?t want anyone competing with them for such things. So, yes trying to monitor what?s going on with someone?s activities on the iPhone is pretty difficult. Most activity trackers do things like check the time and send a notification that one has not gone for a walk recently. They might also check the accelerometer to see if the iPhone has moved recently, but that app has to be running in the foreground for that to work. Tracker apps can use a lot of power too because they are checking things constantly and that can affect the daily battery time. Good luck! Rick > On May 4, 2017, at 11:24 AM, Matt Maier via use-livecode wrote: > > Is there a concise list of what Livecode can do on mobile devices? > > Activity tracking - some kind of awerenesses that the user interacted with > their phone during focus time. Did they turn the screen on, did they spend > time out if the lilspace app, did they send/receive messages. The idea is > to trigger a "not really focusing" flag. Stuff like music and photos would > be fine, 10 minutes on Facebook wouldn't. > > Auto-reply - prewritten messages that go out when you're focusing to > explain what you're doing and when you'll be done. Like "I'm at yoga. I'll > check my phone at 5". > > > On May 4, 2017 06:37, "pink via use-livecode" > wrote: > > Access to phone functions is limited. On the iPhone is it extremely limited. > > Can you be more specific about what you mean by "activity tracking" and > "auto-reply"? > > Screen dimming and silent mode definitely cannot be triggered by an iPhone > app, I am not sure about Android but I doubt it can be done in LiveCode > without some sort of external being built. Your best bet would be to have > reminders setup to say "please switch on silent mode" > > What else do you want such an app to do? > > > > ----- > --- > Greg (pink) Miller > mad, pink and dangerous to code > -- > View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution. > 278305.n4.nabble.com/develop-a-hybrid-app-tp4714468p4714472.html > Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bogdanoff at me.com Fri May 5 00:05:57 2017 From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff) Date: Thu, 04 May 2017 21:05:57 -0700 Subject: http calls blocked by virus protection? Message-ID: <41A50901-FCCC-4A6A-83CE-C97CF4B6B47D@me.com> Hi, I have a user who seems to have a good Internet connection, but my Livecode application can?t connect to a remote server using http. He?s on Windows. Is it possible that some virus protection software blocks such connections? He?s an older user, far away, and I really don?t know what he has installed. Peter Bogdanoff From danoldboy at gmail.com Fri May 5 00:37:29 2017 From: danoldboy at gmail.com (Dan Brown) Date: Fri, 5 May 2017 05:37:29 +0100 Subject: Calling a livecode executable -ui from LC server and get back a result. In-Reply-To: <7D8436CF-8CDD-41D9-8F54-C12AFA08333A@derbrill.de> References: <7D8436CF-8CDD-41D9-8F54-C12AFA08333A@derbrill.de> Message-ID: You can communicate between server and desktop using sockets. Chatrev is a good example of this http://www.bjoernke.com/index.irev?target=chatrev On 4 May 2017 7:34 pm, "Malte Brill via use-livecode" < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hi all, > > has anybody successfully done this? Especially on Windows? I would like to > launch a livecode built application from a liveCode server script and get > the output back (on a Server that I control) Is that possible? If so, how? > > I tried a couple of things to no avail: > > set the shellCommand to "CMD" > put "" > put the time > put "
" > put Quote & "thes.exe" & Quote &&"-ui" into tShell > try > get shell(tShell) > put "Result:" && the result & cr &"It:" && it > put "
" > open process tShell for binary read > read from process tShell until EOF > put "Result:" && the result & cr &"It:" && it > put "
" > catch theErr > put theErr > end try > put cr > put the time > put "" > ?> > > the helper app: In the stack script: > > on startup > send "boo" to me in 500 millisecs > ? to make sure all libs are loaded > end startup > > on boo > quit > end boo > > on shutdown > write "boo" to stdout > end shutdown > > Thanks for all input I can get? > > Malte > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From toolbook at kestner.de Fri May 5 05:30:00 2017 From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB) Date: Fri, 5 May 2017 11:30:00 +0200 Subject: looking for a smart approach to "sort" an array Message-ID: <004e01d2c582$2bdb7a30$83926e90$@kestner.de> Hello, I have a list field of words and a correspondent array with the words of the field as the keys plus some data per key. I can store the array in a file, read it later from file and rebuild the list of words from the keys of the array. Up to now, I had this list of words alphabetically sorted. So it was easy, when reloading the array to sort the list always alphabetically to refresh the visible list in the field. The user can also create a custom sequence of the words in the field by drag and drop the lines in individual order. Now I am looking for a smart approach to keep the same sort order in the correspondent array. I need the custom sort order of the words in case I reload the array later from file to get the same sequence of words as the user has sorted them, after extracting the words from the array. The key of the array has to keep the words from the list for accessing the data in the array. As far as I see it, I have to add an additional item to the array data, storing the sort sequence of the keys, while the user creates his custom sequence of the words in the list field and keeping this number always synchronous to the line number of the fields list. So I could use this "sort sequence number" from the array to rebuild the same sort of the words when extracting the words from the array. Would this be the best approach to keep the sort sequence of the words stored with the array, or do you see an easier more straight forward approach to keep the array "synchronous sorted" which I don't see right now? Thanks for your input Tiemo From bonnmike at gmail.com Fri May 5 05:46:58 2017 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Fri, 5 May 2017 03:46:58 -0600 Subject: looking for a smart approach to "sort" an array In-Reply-To: <004e01d2c582$2bdb7a30$83926e90$@kestner.de> References: <004e01d2c582$2bdb7a30$83926e90$@kestner.de> Message-ID: It might be easiest to just have a single separate key that contains the user sorted list, then use the data of that key itself to access the rest of the array. So if you have 5 keys, word1,word2,word3,word4,word5, but the user orders them in reverse, your sorted words single key would contain word5 word4 word3 word2 word1 Then to get everything back out in the right order one could use a repeat for each line repeat loop on that key like so. repeat for each line tKey in myArrayA["sortedWords"] -- do whatever with each one myArrayA[tKey]..... end repeat On Fri, May 5, 2017 at 3:30 AM, Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hello, > > I have a list field of words and a correspondent array with the words of > the > field as the keys plus some data per key. I can store the array in a file, > read it later from file and rebuild the list of words from the keys of the > array. Up to now, I had this list of words alphabetically sorted. So it was > easy, when reloading the array to sort the list always alphabetically to > refresh the visible list in the field. > > The user can also create a custom sequence of the words in the field by > drag > and drop the lines in individual order. Now I am looking for a smart > approach to keep the same sort order in the correspondent array. I need the > custom sort order of the words in case I reload the array later from file > to > get the same sequence of words as the user has sorted them, after > extracting > the words from the array. The key of the array has to keep the words from > the list for accessing the data in the array. > > As far as I see it, I have to add an additional item to the array data, > storing the sort sequence of the keys, while the user creates his custom > sequence of the words in the list field and keeping this number always > synchronous to the line number of the fields list. So I could use this > "sort > sequence number" from the array to rebuild the same sort of the words when > extracting the words from the array. > > Would this be the best approach to keep the sort sequence of the words > stored with the array, or do you see an easier more straight forward > approach to keep the array "synchronous sorted" which I don't see right > now? > > Thanks for your input > > Tiemo > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From toolbook at kestner.de Fri May 5 06:34:21 2017 From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB) Date: Fri, 5 May 2017 12:34:21 +0200 Subject: AW: looking for a smart approach to "sort" an array In-Reply-To: References: <004e01d2c582$2bdb7a30$83926e90$@kestner.de> Message-ID: <005a01d2c58b$28b62f40$7a228dc0$@kestner.de> Nice idea, much easier, as my idea Thanks Mike! Tiemo -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag von Mike Bonner via use-livecode Gesendet: Freitag, 5. Mai 2017 11:47 An: How to use LiveCode Cc: Mike Bonner Betreff: Re: looking for a smart approach to "sort" an array It might be easiest to just have a single separate key that contains the user sorted list, then use the data of that key itself to access the rest of the array. So if you have 5 keys, word1,word2,word3,word4,word5, but the user orders them in reverse, your sorted words single key would contain word5 word4 word3 word2 word1 Then to get everything back out in the right order one could use a repeat for each line repeat loop on that key like so. repeat for each line tKey in myArrayA["sortedWords"] -- do whatever with each one myArrayA[tKey]..... end repeat On Fri, May 5, 2017 at 3:30 AM, Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hello, > > I have a list field of words and a correspondent array with the words > of the field as the keys plus some data per key. I can store the array > in a file, read it later from file and rebuild the list of words from > the keys of the array. Up to now, I had this list of words > alphabetically sorted. So it was easy, when reloading the array to > sort the list always alphabetically to refresh the visible list in the > field. > > The user can also create a custom sequence of the words in the field > by drag and drop the lines in individual order. Now I am looking for a > smart approach to keep the same sort order in the correspondent array. > I need the custom sort order of the words in case I reload the array > later from file to get the same sequence of words as the user has > sorted them, after extracting the words from the array. The key of the > array has to keep the words from the list for accessing the data in > the array. > > As far as I see it, I have to add an additional item to the array > data, storing the sort sequence of the keys, while the user creates > his custom sequence of the words in the list field and keeping this > number always synchronous to the line number of the fields list. So I > could use this "sort sequence number" from the array to rebuild the > same sort of the words when extracting the words from the array. > > Would this be the best approach to keep the sort sequence of the words > stored with the array, or do you see an easier more straight forward > approach to keep the array "synchronous sorted" which I don't see > right now? > > Thanks for your input > > Tiemo > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From revolution at derbrill.de Fri May 5 06:48:31 2017 From: revolution at derbrill.de (Malte Brill) Date: Fri, 5 May 2017 12:48:31 +0200 Subject: Calling a livecode executable -ui from LC server and get back a result. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks Dan, but that is not what I am after? I have a server side liveCode application, which needs to talk to a couple of webservices from time to time. While this works nicely on the desktop, it does not do so on Server, as Server lacks some libURL functionality. First workaround was to shell out to cURL. This works nicely on Mac and Linux servers, but forever reason fails under Windows Server, which I need to support. So the next thought was to call a liveCode executable -ui when needed, but I do not get a result back there. I will not want to have a liveCode standalone running 24/7 on a server machine. I guess the easiest way out is to simply kill off the idea to treat liveCode server as a replacement for PHP and just bite the bullet and build everything in PHP instead. Or start an initiative to get libURL ported to server. I already talked to the guys in Scottland to see if this would be feasible, but it would cost a bit more than I could afford alone. I might just go with having the single command implemented I would need for the project (libURLLastRHHeaders), which then would also lift the requirements for having to use cURL or any other helper app in my case, but I am not quite sure if that makes sense? Would anybody else like to see libURL feature parity between Desktop and Server engines and if so be willing to set up a fundraiser with me for this? Cheers, Malte > You can communicate between server and desktop using sockets. Chatrev is a > good example of this > http://www.bjoernke.com/index.irev?target=chatrev From charles at techstrategies.com.au Fri May 5 06:57:01 2017 From: charles at techstrategies.com.au (Charles Warwick) Date: Fri, 5 May 2017 20:57:01 +1000 Subject: Calling a livecode executable -ui from LC server and get back a result. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <361bf0bd-c725-42b8-d5bb-b493f9969f9a@techstrategies.com.au> Hi Malte, If you are able to use the commercial version of LC server, the tsNet external is supported which provides equivalent functionality to libUrl. Regards, Charles On 5/05/2017 8:48 PM, Malte Brill via use-livecode wrote: > Thanks Dan, but that is not what I am after? > > I have a server side liveCode application, which needs to talk to a couple of webservices from time to time. While this works nicely on the desktop, it does not do so on Server, as Server lacks some libURL functionality. First workaround was to shell out to cURL. This works nicely on Mac and Linux servers, but forever reason fails under Windows Server, which I need to support. So the next thought was to call a liveCode executable -ui when needed, but I do not get a result back there. I will not want to have a liveCode standalone running 24/7 on a server machine. I guess the easiest way out is to simply kill off the idea to treat liveCode server as a replacement for PHP and just bite the bullet and build everything in PHP instead. Or start an initiative to get libURL ported to server. I already talked to the guys in Scottland to see if this would be feasible, but it would cost a bit more than I could afford alone. I might just go with having the single command implemented I would need for the project (libURLLastRHHeaders), which then would also lift the requirements for having to use cURL or any other helper app in my case, but I am not quite sure if that makes sense? > > Would anybody else like to see libURL feature parity between Desktop and Server engines and if so be willing to set up a fundraiser with me for this? > > Cheers, > > Malte > >> You can communicate between server and desktop using sockets. Chatrev is a >> good example of this >> http://www.bjoernke.com/index.irev?target=chatrev > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From revolution at derbrill.de Fri May 5 07:02:19 2017 From: revolution at derbrill.de (Malte Brill) Date: Fri, 5 May 2017 13:02:19 +0200 Subject: Calling a livecode executable -ui from LC server and get back a result. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <622726B4-B444-4F18-AFB6-C9F7062C7B3F@derbrill.de> Hi Charles, thanks a lot for the information. I am afraid I can not use it in this context, as this is for an Open Source project. For other things this might be an option. Cheers, Malte > Hi Malte, > > If you are able to use the commercial version of LC server, the tsNet > external is supported which provides equivalent functionality to libUrl. > > Regards, > > Charles From paul at researchware.com Fri May 5 07:03:38 2017 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Fri, 5 May 2017 07:03:38 -0400 Subject: http calls blocked by virus protection? In-Reply-To: <41A50901-FCCC-4A6A-83CE-C97CF4B6B47D@me.com> References: <41A50901-FCCC-4A6A-83CE-C97CF4B6B47D@me.com> Message-ID: <8febce4f-7c7c-b1fd-249c-752beea8ad89@researchware.com> I am not sure what sort of connection you are doing to your server, but both OSX's Firewall and Windows Firewall will try to block *incoming* connections to an app (for example, if you have your app listening for an incoming connection using the 'accept' command. Outbound standard http connections on port 80 should NOT be block - BY DEFAULT - but I just ran into a customer at a commercial research site where the company block ALL internet connections except those to pre-approved web sites, so some places have really extreme internet security practices. On 5/5/2017 12:05 AM, Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode wrote: > Hi, > > I have a user who seems to have a good Internet connection, but my Livecode application can?t connect to a remote server using http. > > He?s on Windows. Is it possible that some virus protection software blocks such connections? > > He?s an older user, far away, and I really don?t know what he has installed. > > Peter Bogdanoff > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From paul at researchware.com Fri May 5 07:11:07 2017 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Fri, 5 May 2017 07:11:07 -0400 Subject: http calls blocked by virus protection? In-Reply-To: <8febce4f-7c7c-b1fd-249c-752beea8ad89@researchware.com> References: <41A50901-FCCC-4A6A-83CE-C97CF4B6B47D@me.com> <8febce4f-7c7c-b1fd-249c-752beea8ad89@researchware.com> Message-ID: <97264846-f115-d7f9-bd2c-722d4bd043df@researchware.com> I should have added that WHEN windows firewall does block something, a message typically appears warning the user, so if that is what is happening, your user should be seeing some sort of error message from Windows. On 5/5/2017 7:03 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > I am not sure what sort of connection you are doing to your server, but > both OSX's Firewall and Windows Firewall will try to block *incoming* > connections to an app (for example, if you have your app listening for > an incoming connection using the 'accept' command. Outbound standard > http connections on port 80 should NOT be block - BY DEFAULT - but I > just ran into a customer at a commercial research site where the company > block ALL internet connections except those to pre-approved web sites, > so some places have really extreme internet security practices. > > > On 5/5/2017 12:05 AM, Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I have a user who seems to have a good Internet connection, but my Livecode application can?t connect to a remote server using http. >> >> He?s on Windows. Is it possible that some virus protection software blocks such connections? >> >> He?s an older user, far away, and I really don?t know what he has installed. >> >> Peter Bogdanoff >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Fri May 5 08:05:58 2017 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Fri, 5 May 2017 08:05:58 -0400 Subject: Calling a livecode executable -ui from LC server and get back a result. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Have you considered running a faceless Desktop app as a service, having it watch for a socket message, or a file, or even clipboard content to signal it to do something. You could keep an account signed in with an app running -with-or-without a UI. ~Roger On Fri, May 5, 2017 at 6:48 AM, Malte Brill via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Thanks Dan, but that is not what I am after? > > I have a server side liveCode application, which needs to talk to a couple > of webservices from time to time. While this works nicely on the desktop, > it does not do so on Server, as Server lacks some libURL functionality. > First workaround was to shell out to cURL. This works nicely on Mac and > Linux servers, but forever reason fails under Windows Server, which I need > to support. So the next thought was to call a liveCode executable -ui when > needed, but I do not get a result back there. I will not want to have a > liveCode standalone running 24/7 on a server machine. I guess the easiest > way out is to simply kill off the idea to treat liveCode server as a > replacement for PHP and just bite the bullet and build everything in PHP > instead. Or start an initiative to get libURL ported to server. I already > talked to the guys in Scottland to see if this would be feasible, but it > would cost a bit more than I could afford alone. I might just go with > having the single command implemented I would need for the project > (libURLLastRHHeaders), which then would also lift the requirements for > having to use cURL or any other helper app in my case, but I am not quite > sure if that makes sense? > > Would anybody else like to see libURL feature parity between Desktop and > Server engines and if so be willing to set up a fundraiser with me for this? > > Cheers, > > Malte > > > You can communicate between server and desktop using sockets. Chatrev is > a > > good example of this > > http://www.bjoernke.com/index.irev?target=chatrev > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From revolution at derbrill.de Fri May 5 08:36:27 2017 From: revolution at derbrill.de (Malte Brill) Date: Fri, 5 May 2017 14:36:27 +0200 Subject: Calling a livecode executable -ui from LC server and get back a result. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <630294C1-E4D0-4997-BB05-8BC9F0539F11@derbrill.de> Hi Roger, indeed, I have considdered that. But I have no experience on how this would behave. Actually what I was trying to do is reducing the involved components, instead of introducing more and more over the course of building the system. LC - Server came natural there, as it would have allowed me to use liveCode inline and having the proven stability of Apache, which is needed for other purposes in the project also. It is so unfortunate, that LC-server gets me to 95% of what I need to do and then you need to revise your decisions, because some things that you would expect to work, just won?t. I can most certainly move everything that is needed into a liveCode client, but I would not want to do that because of apllication design reasons. Pitty. If I were to set up a faceless app as a service / daemon, I am not too sure if I would do it in LC, given that it would be a single threaded process and I might need concurrency. The pretty part of the CGI approach is that it starts an instance per connection that then can act individually. Well, back to whiteboard I guess. Thanks a lot, Malte > Have you considered running a faceless Desktop app as a service, having it watch for a socket message, or a file, or even clipboard content to signal it to do something. You could keep an account signed in with an app running -with-or-without a UI. > From phil at liverpool.ac.uk Fri May 5 08:33:54 2017 From: phil at liverpool.ac.uk (Phil Jimmieson) Date: Fri, 5 May 2017 13:33:54 +0100 Subject: Image Caching / defaultfolder weirdness Message-ID: <2D8DEC37-023C-4B28-B71D-F5DE1732E15B@liverpool.ac.uk> Hi folks, I?ve got an application for Mac and PC which has been developed over a number of years and versions of LiveCode and I?m currently trying to build it with LiveCode 8 on MacOS 10.12. A single folder contains both my App and some other folders that contain supporting materials - images etc. In order to use these image resources I use image objects in my app that have relative filenames and in the preopenstack handler of the mainstack I set the defaultfolder to be the folder containing my app and the support folders. I can work on my app in the IDE (where the LiveCode source file is in the folder rather than a compiled app) and all is fine. Images display properly, text files etc. are all in (relative) place. When I compile the App with LiveCode 8 and put that in the folder with the resources, all of my images are broken. I?m guessing that LiveCode is attempting to load them before the defaultfolder is set correctly and just not finding them (I think the initial value for the defaultfolder in a compiled MacOS app is the location of the binary - which is deep inside the app bundle - not the correct place to look for my support folders). Has anyone else seen this and have a solution? Aside from making sure the defaultfolder was correct there was no need to do anything else in LiveCode 7 and below. Am I going to have to go through all of my graphics as the application starts up and replace their filenames with valid absolute paths or something? LiveCode 9 has exactly the same issue. -- Phil Jimmieson phil at liverpool.ac.uk (UK) 0151 795 4236 Computer Science Dept., Liverpool University, Ashton Building, Ashton Street Liverpool L69 3BX http://intranet.csc.liv.ac.uk/~phil/ I used to sit on a special medical board... ...but now I use this ointment. From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Fri May 5 09:55:03 2017 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Fri, 5 May 2017 09:55:03 -0400 Subject: Calling a livecode executable -ui from LC server and get back a result. In-Reply-To: <630294C1-E4D0-4997-BB05-8BC9F0539F11@derbrill.de> References: <630294C1-E4D0-4997-BB05-8BC9F0539F11@derbrill.de> Message-ID: <001901d2c5a7$32f34620$98d9d260$@net> I am running my Android Remote Tester LC app as a Windows Service on Win 10. It has a UI for debugging/examining operation when run in the Windows UI and this UI does not cause any problems when running as a service. I just startup up everything in the preopenstack. This app does socket communications for user requests and performs various functions including shelling out to the OS and returning the result back to the client. It's been very reliable while running as a service and has never has any mysterious crashes. This app supports multi user connections. I use the socket address as an index into an array for session context. As it is single threaded, it has to finish one request before it can work on the next but does not have the overhead of starting up a new process for each connection/request. Could this work for you? Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Malte Brill via use-livecode Sent: Friday, May 05, 2017 8:36 AM To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Cc: Malte Brill Subject: Re: Calling a livecode executable -ui from LC server and get back a result. Hi Roger, indeed, I have considdered that. But I have no experience on how this would behave. Actually what I was trying to do is reducing the involved components, instead of introducing more and more over the course of building the system. LC - Server came natural there, as it would have allowed me to use liveCode inline and having the proven stability of Apache, which is needed for other purposes in the project also. It is so unfortunate, that LC-server gets me to 95% of what I need to do and then you need to revise your decisions, because some things that you would expect to work, just won?t. I can most certainly move everything that is needed into a liveCode client, but I would not want to do that because of apllication design reasons. Pitty. If I were to set up a faceless app as a service / daemon, I am not too sure if I would do it in LC, given that it would be a single threaded process and I might need concurrency. The pretty part of the CGI approach is that it starts an instance per connection that then can act individually. Well, back to whiteboard I guess. Thanks a lot, Malte > Have you considered running a faceless Desktop app as a service, having it watch for a socket message, or a file, or even clipboard content to signal it to do something. You could keep an account signed in with an app running -with-or-without a UI. > _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Fri May 5 09:54:01 2017 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe) Date: Fri, 5 May 2017 15:54:01 +0200 Subject: http calls blocked by virus protection? In-Reply-To: <41A50901-FCCC-4A6A-83CE-C97CF4B6B47D@me.com> References: <41A50901-FCCC-4A6A-83CE-C97CF4B6B47D@me.com> Message-ID: <2D7E8553-73D9-45D2-A523-82D4C56FB842@m-r-d.de> It seems that your application is blocked by a firewall. Either the Windows firewall or maybe a 3rd party security software. But it is unlikely that the security software just blocks your app w/o having asked at least once if the user wants to allow outgoing connections for that app. Some settings in the security software might suppress any further notification that the software was blocked. Your user has to check the firewall settings if the app is listed a permanently locked and if so to change that settings. In F-Secure Client security for example this can be found under Settings/Network Connections/Application Control. Unfortunately each manufacture has its own place where they store that settings. Regards, Matthias > Am 05.05.2017 um 06:05 schrieb Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode >: > > Hi, > > I have a user who seems to have a good Internet connection, but my Livecode application can?t connect to a remote server using http. > > He?s on Windows. Is it possible that some virus protection software blocks such connections? > > He?s an older user, far away, and I really don?t know what he has installed. > > Peter Bogdanoff > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From alex at tweedly.net Fri May 5 10:16:49 2017 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Fri, 5 May 2017 15:16:49 +0100 Subject: Calling a livecode executable -ui from LC server and get back a result. In-Reply-To: <7D8436CF-8CDD-41D9-8F54-C12AFA08333A@derbrill.de> References: <7D8436CF-8CDD-41D9-8F54-C12AFA08333A@derbrill.de> Message-ID: <6303ebc6-45f6-3f68-c0ce-09a6790f6859@tweedly.net> Could you have the LC Script pass a temp file name to the helper app which can then write to that file rather than stdout ? (maybe not really a "temp file", but simply a file chosen by the LC Server script based on current millisecs time or some such thing, and deleted after everything is finished.) And the LC Server script can simply wait until the helper is done, and then read the file (and then delete it). Alex. On 04/05/2017 19:34, Malte Brill via use-livecode wrote: > Hi all, > > has anybody successfully done this? Especially on Windows? I would like to launch a livecode built application from a liveCode server script and get the output back (on a Server that I control) Is that possible? If so, how? > > I tried a couple of things to no avail: > > set the shellCommand to "CMD" > put "" > put the time > put "
" > put Quote & "thes.exe" & Quote &&"-ui" into tShell > try > get shell(tShell) > put "Result:" && the result & cr &"It:" && it > put "
" > open process tShell for binary read > read from process tShell until EOF > put "Result:" && the result & cr &"It:" && it > put "
" > catch theErr > put theErr > end try > put cr > put the time > put "" > ?> > > the helper app: In the stack script: > > on startup > send "boo" to me in 500 millisecs > ? to make sure all libs are loaded > end startup > > on boo > quit > end boo > > on shutdown > write "boo" to stdout > end shutdown > > Thanks for all input I can get? > > Malte > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bonnmike at gmail.com Fri May 5 10:22:51 2017 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Fri, 5 May 2017 08:22:51 -0600 Subject: Calling a livecode executable -ui from LC server and get back a result. In-Reply-To: <630294C1-E4D0-4997-BB05-8BC9F0539F11@derbrill.de> References: <630294C1-E4D0-4997-BB05-8BC9F0539F11@derbrill.de> Message-ID: Is there a specific reason you need to use a built exe for this? lc server can use stack files (start using path/to/stack) as well as "include"ing or "require"ing extra script files, so unless you're using functionality only available in the desktop version of lc, you might be able to bypass the need to shell to your exe. This keeps the nice benefit of having instanced runs controlled by a nice solid apache server. On Fri, May 5, 2017 at 6:36 AM, Malte Brill via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hi Roger, > > indeed, I have considdered that. But I have no experience on how this > would behave. Actually what I was trying to do is reducing the involved > components, instead of introducing more and more over the course of > building the system. LC - Server came natural there, as it would have > allowed me to use liveCode inline and having the proven stability of > Apache, which is needed for other purposes in the project also. It is so > unfortunate, that LC-server gets me to 95% of what I need to do and then > you need to revise your decisions, because some things that you would > expect to work, just won?t. I can most certainly move everything that is > needed into a liveCode client, but I would not want to do that because of > apllication design reasons. Pitty. If I were to set up a faceless app as a > service / daemon, I am not too sure if I would do it in LC, given that it > would be a single threaded process and I might need concurrency. The pretty > part of the CGI approach is that it starts an instance per connection that > then can act individually. Well, back to whiteboard I guess. > > Thanks a lot, > > Malte > > > > > Have you considered running a faceless Desktop app as a service, having > it watch for a socket message, or a file, or even clipboard content to > signal it to do something. You could keep an account signed in with an app > running -with-or-without a UI. > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org Fri May 5 10:27:50 2017 From: prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org (prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org) Date: Fri, 5 May 2017 07:27:50 -0700 Subject: Image Caching / defaultfolder weirdness In-Reply-To: <2D8DEC37-023C-4B28-B71D-F5DE1732E15B@liverpool.ac.uk> References: <2D8DEC37-023C-4B28-B71D-F5DE1732E15B@liverpool.ac.uk> Message-ID: <539E7D8F-72CE-483E-BF99-C68917631ECD@earthlearningsolutions.org> Can you use the specialfolderpath function to get the correct locations of your resources on various os's? Bill William Prothero http://es.earthednet.org > On May 5, 2017, at 5:33 AM, Phil Jimmieson via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi folks, > I?ve got an application for Mac and PC which has been developed over a number of years and versions of LiveCode and I?m currently trying to build it with LiveCode 8 on MacOS 10.12. > > A single folder contains both my App and some other folders that contain supporting materials - images etc. In order to use these image resources I use image objects in my app that have relative filenames and in the preopenstack handler of the mainstack I set the defaultfolder to be the folder containing my app and the support folders. I can work on my app in the IDE (where the LiveCode source file is in the folder rather than a compiled app) and all is fine. Images display properly, text files etc. are all in (relative) place. When I compile the App with LiveCode 8 and put that in the folder with the resources, all of my images are broken. I?m guessing that LiveCode is attempting to load them before the defaultfolder is set correctly and just not finding them (I think the initial value for the defaultfolder in a compiled MacOS app is the location of the binary - which is deep inside the app bundle - not the correct place to look for my support folders). > > Has anyone else seen this and have a solution? Aside from making sure the defaultfolder was correct there was no need to do anything else in LiveCode 7 and below. Am I going to have to go through all of my graphics as the application starts up and replace their filenames with valid absolute paths or something? > > LiveCode 9 has exactly the same issue. > > -- > Phil Jimmieson phil at liverpool.ac.uk (UK) 0151 795 4236 > Computer Science Dept., Liverpool University, Ashton Building, Ashton Street > Liverpool L69 3BX http://intranet.csc.liv.ac.uk/~phil/ > I used to sit on a special medical board... ...but now I use this ointment. > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Fri May 5 10:29:11 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Fri, 5 May 2017 07:29:11 -0700 Subject: http calls blocked by virus protection? In-Reply-To: <8febce4f-7c7c-b1fd-249c-752beea8ad89@researchware.com> References: <8febce4f-7c7c-b1fd-249c-752beea8ad89@researchware.com> Message-ID: <9e5f9224-4599-d1f5-7974-caff594d4eab@fourthworld.com> Paul Dupuis wrote: > Outbound standard http connections on port 80 should NOT be block - > BY DEFAULT - but I just ran into a customer at a commercial research > site where the company block ALL internet connections except those > to pre-approved web sites, so some places have really extreme > internet security practices. Seems perhaps overkill for a research company to block most of the web. ;) -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From mark at livecode.com Fri May 5 10:30:22 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Fri, 05 May 2017 16:30:22 +0200 Subject: Calling a livecode executable -ui from LC server and get back a result. In-Reply-To: <7D8436CF-8CDD-41D9-8F54-C12AFA08333A@derbrill.de> References: <7D8436CF-8CDD-41D9-8F54-C12AFA08333A@derbrill.de> Message-ID: <996d0b275d5bb8f09848e728790b934c@livecode.com> Hi Malte, On 2017-05-04 20:34, Malte Brill via use-livecode wrote: > Hi all, > > has anybody successfully done this? Especially on Windows? I would > like to launch a livecode built application from a liveCode server > script and get the output back (on a Server that I control) Is that > possible? If so, how? The problem here is a Windows 'limitation' (well design decision really). Windows has two types of executable - console mode and GUI mode. LiveCode is a GUI mode application, which means that it detaches from the console and does not work in the way you would expect when run from the command-line. Now, a while I back I added a wee bit of code to the engine to make it still do something console-y on Windows: on startup it attempts to 'AttachConsole' which at least means the engine can access the console handles it was created with when doing stdout/stderr/stdin type stuff. However, the limitation here is that the process is still 'detached' from the parent and so does not necessarily block open process or shell. (This was done IIRC as a request from Roger Eller - I can't remember the exact reasons, but the code added seemed to help his specific case, at least). There's plenty of stuff about this around - Raymend Chen has plenty to say about it. One notable article being: https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20090101-00/?p=19643 Now, one thing he links to from here is: https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/junfeng/2004/02/06/how-to-make-an-application-as-both-gui-and-console-application/ You could try using editbin.exe to change the subsystem type (editbin.exe is installed with any of the Visual Studio releases, or tools): EDITBIN.EXE /SUBSYSTEM:CONSOLE Then see if this works in the way you want... It might... Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri May 5 10:37:31 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 5 May 2017 14:37:31 +0000 Subject: looking for a smart approach to "sort" an array In-Reply-To: <004e01d2c582$2bdb7a30$83926e90$@kestner.de> References: <004e01d2c582$2bdb7a30$83926e90$@kestner.de> Message-ID: Why not load the array into a memory sqlite database and query using order by? Bob S > On May 5, 2017, at 02:30 , Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode wrote: > > Hello, > > I have a list field of words and a correspondent array with the words of the > field as the keys plus some data per key. I can store the array in a file, > read it later from file and rebuild the list of words from the keys of the > array. Up to now, I had this list of words alphabetically sorted. So it was > easy, when reloading the array to sort the list always alphabetically to > refresh the visible list in the field. > > The user can also create a custom sequence of the words in the field by drag > and drop the lines in individual order. Now I am looking for a smart > approach to keep the same sort order in the correspondent array. I need the > custom sort order of the words in case I reload the array later from file to > get the same sequence of words as the user has sorted them, after extracting > the words from the array. The key of the array has to keep the words from > the list for accessing the data in the array. > > As far as I see it, I have to add an additional item to the array data, > storing the sort sequence of the keys, while the user creates his custom > sequence of the words in the list field and keeping this number always > synchronous to the line number of the fields list. So I could use this "sort > sequence number" from the array to rebuild the same sort of the words when > extracting the words from the array. > > Would this be the best approach to keep the sort sequence of the words > stored with the array, or do you see an easier more straight forward > approach to keep the array "synchronous sorted" which I don't see right now? > > Thanks for your input > > Tiemo > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri May 5 10:42:45 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 5 May 2017 14:42:45 +0000 Subject: Image Caching / defaultfolder weirdness In-Reply-To: <2D8DEC37-023C-4B28-B71D-F5DE1732E15B@liverpool.ac.uk> References: <2D8DEC37-023C-4B28-B71D-F5DE1732E15B@liverpool.ac.uk> Message-ID: Are your image objects linked to the image files on disk? If so, then include the folder containing your images in your stack files section of the stack properties. That works for me. Also I am sketchy on how you are building the standalone. If you set up your stack files properly there will be no need to move anything around. The Save As Standalone process will make copies of your images and dynamically link the image objects to the copies. Bob S > On May 5, 2017, at 05:33 , Phil Jimmieson via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi folks, > I?ve got an application for Mac and PC which has been developed over a number of years and versions of LiveCode and I?m currently trying to build it with LiveCode 8 on MacOS 10.12. > > A single folder contains both my App and some other folders that contain supporting materials - images etc. In order to use these image resources I use image objects in my app that have relative filenames and in the preopenstack handler of the mainstack I set the defaultfolder to be the folder containing my app and the support folders. I can work on my app in the IDE (where the LiveCode source file is in the folder rather than a compiled app) and all is fine. Images display properly, text files etc. are all in (relative) place. When I compile the App with LiveCode 8 and put that in the folder with the resources, all of my images are broken. I?m guessing that LiveCode is attempting to load them before the defaultfolder is set correctly and just not finding them (I think the initial value for the defaultfolder in a compiled MacOS app is the location of the binary - which is deep inside the app bundle - not the correct place to look for my support folders). > > Has anyone else seen this and have a solution? Aside from making sure the defaultfolder was correct there was no need to do anything else in LiveCode 7 and below. Am I going to have to go through all of my graphics as the application starts up and replace their filenames with valid absolute paths or something? > > LiveCode 9 has exactly the same issue. From bonnmike at gmail.com Fri May 5 10:52:30 2017 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Fri, 5 May 2017 08:52:30 -0600 Subject: looking for a smart approach to "sort" an array In-Reply-To: References: <004e01d2c582$2bdb7a30$83926e90$@kestner.de> Message-ID: Bob, can you do a custom sort using order by with sqlite? I did some digging and see a way, but for this purpose it seems complicated and I'm wondering if there is something better than what I found. Basically what I found was this.. ORDER BY CASE ID WHEN 4 THEN 0 WHEN 3 THEN 1 WHEN 1 THEN 2 WHEN 5 THEN 3 WHEN 6 THEN 4 END So to my thinking one would build a large "order by" with all the words and their associated line numbers so you could do WHEN 'myfirstword' THEN 0.. etc for each word and its line number in the list. (Always interested in new ways) On Fri, May 5, 2017 at 8:37 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Why not load the array into a memory sqlite database and query using order > by? > > Bob S > > > > On May 5, 2017, at 02:30 , Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > Hello, > > > > I have a list field of words and a correspondent array with the words of > the > > field as the keys plus some data per key. I can store the array in a > file, > > read it later from file and rebuild the list of words from the keys of > the > > array. Up to now, I had this list of words alphabetically sorted. So it > was > > easy, when reloading the array to sort the list always alphabetically to > > refresh the visible list in the field. > > > > The user can also create a custom sequence of the words in the field by > drag > > and drop the lines in individual order. Now I am looking for a smart > > approach to keep the same sort order in the correspondent array. I need > the > > custom sort order of the words in case I reload the array later from > file to > > get the same sequence of words as the user has sorted them, after > extracting > > the words from the array. The key of the array has to keep the words from > > the list for accessing the data in the array. > > > > As far as I see it, I have to add an additional item to the array data, > > storing the sort sequence of the keys, while the user creates his custom > > sequence of the words in the list field and keeping this number always > > synchronous to the line number of the fields list. So I could use this > "sort > > sequence number" from the array to rebuild the same sort of the words > when > > extracting the words from the array. > > > > Would this be the best approach to keep the sort sequence of the words > > stored with the array, or do you see an easier more straight forward > > approach to keep the array "synchronous sorted" which I don't see right > now? > > > > Thanks for your input > > > > Tiemo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From mark at livecode.com Fri May 5 10:55:54 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Fri, 05 May 2017 16:55:54 +0200 Subject: Image Caching / defaultfolder weirdness In-Reply-To: <2D8DEC37-023C-4B28-B71D-F5DE1732E15B@liverpool.ac.uk> References: <2D8DEC37-023C-4B28-B71D-F5DE1732E15B@liverpool.ac.uk> Message-ID: On 2017-05-05 14:33, Phil Jimmieson via use-livecode wrote: > Hi folks, > I?ve got an application for Mac and PC which has been developed over a > number of years and versions of LiveCode and I?m currently trying to > build it with LiveCode 8 on MacOS 10.12. If you are using referenced images (those with filename) then relative paths will be resolved relative to the folder containing the stack they are on first (or should be at least!) If the stack is the mainstack of the standalone (and thus built into the exe) then the folder containing the exe (not the app bundle!) is used. So - what is the structure of your app on disk? Does it work on either platform as it stands? Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From lists at mangomultimedia.com Fri May 5 11:02:45 2017 From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore) Date: Fri, 05 May 2017 15:02:45 +0000 Subject: http calls blocked by virus protection? In-Reply-To: <41A50901-FCCC-4A6A-83CE-C97CF4B6B47D@me.com> References: <41A50901-FCCC-4A6A-83CE-C97CF4B6B47D@me.com> Message-ID: On Thu, May 4, 2017 at 11:06 PM Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > I have a user who seems to have a good Internet connection, but my > Livecode application can?t connect to a remote server using http. > > He?s on Windows. Is it possible that some virus protection software blocks > such connections? > > He?s an older user, far away, and I really don?t know what he has > installed. Proxy servers can cause problems for libURL. I would suggest asking if his computer is configured to use a proxy server. -- Trevor DeVore > From bogdanoff at me.com Fri May 5 11:23:19 2017 From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff) Date: Fri, 05 May 2017 08:23:19 -0700 Subject: http calls blocked by virus protection? In-Reply-To: References: <41A50901-FCCC-4A6A-83CE-C97CF4B6B47D@me.com> Message-ID: <2D765236-43B6-4EF1-9DA4-4141BBDED7C4@me.com> Thank you all; this gives me a start! Peter > On May 5, 2017, at 8:02 AM, Trevor DeVore via use-livecode wrote: > > On Thu, May 4, 2017 at 11:06 PM Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> >> I have a user who seems to have a good Internet connection, but my >> Livecode application can?t connect to a remote server using http. >> >> He?s on Windows. Is it possible that some virus protection software blocks >> such connections? >> >> He?s an older user, far away, and I really don?t know what he has >> installed. > > > Proxy servers can cause problems for libURL. I would suggest asking if his > computer is configured to use a proxy server. > > -- > Trevor DeVore > >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at researchware.com Fri May 5 11:26:27 2017 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Fri, 5 May 2017 11:26:27 -0400 Subject: http calls blocked by virus protection? In-Reply-To: <9e5f9224-4599-d1f5-7974-caff594d4eab@fourthworld.com> References: <8febce4f-7c7c-b1fd-249c-752beea8ad89@researchware.com> <9e5f9224-4599-d1f5-7974-caff594d4eab@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <2e9d02a8-36ff-c54f-fbe5-bd75fd295f66@researchware.com> On 5/5/2017 10:29 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > Paul Dupuis wrote: > > > Outbound standard http connections on port 80 should NOT be block - > > BY DEFAULT - but I just ran into a customer at a commercial research > > site where the company block ALL internet connections except those > > to pre-approved web sites, so some places have really extreme > > internet security practices. > > Seems perhaps overkill for a research company to block most of the > web. ;) > Just a tad bit, and yet, I could email the customer - at their company email address, attachments including an EXE. Someone at this place did not think their IT security through at all =-O From jiml at netrin.com Fri May 5 11:33:14 2017 From: jiml at netrin.com (Jim Lambert) Date: Fri, 5 May 2017 08:33:14 -0700 Subject: looking for a smart approach to "sort" an array In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Might a numbered array work for you, where the key corresponds to the line number? [1][theWordonLineOne][otherData] [2][theWordonLineTwo][otherData] Jim Lambert From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri May 5 11:37:06 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 5 May 2017 15:37:06 +0000 Subject: looking for a smart approach to "sort" an array In-Reply-To: References: <004e01d2c582$2bdb7a30$83926e90$@kestner.de> Message-ID: <4D00200D-1C0D-40DC-A6D3-12212249A400@iotecdigital.com> I read your post a bit closer. Can you just repeat for each line tLine in tText, then increment a counter and use the counter as the key in the array? Bob S put "Bob" & cr & "Andy" & cr & "Fred" into tText repeat for each line tWord in tText add 1 to tCount put tWord into myArray [tCount] end repeat > On May 5, 2017, at 07:52 , Mike Bonner via use-livecode wrote: > > Bob, can you do a custom sort using order by with sqlite? I did some > digging and see a way, but for this purpose it seems complicated and I'm > wondering if there is something better than what I found. Basically what I > found was this.. > > ORDER BY > CASE ID > WHEN 4 THEN 0 > WHEN 3 THEN 1 > WHEN 1 THEN 2 > WHEN 5 THEN 3 > WHEN 6 THEN 4 > END > > So to my thinking one would build a large "order by" with all the > words and their associated line numbers so you could do > > WHEN 'myfirstword' THEN 0.. etc for each word and its line number in > the list. (Always interested in new ways) From ambassador at fourthworld.com Fri May 5 12:11:56 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Fri, 5 May 2017 09:11:56 -0700 Subject: Calling a livecode executable -ui from LC server and get back a result. In-Reply-To: <0ec3e2ac-2634-efc3-20e0-92186cf655ee@fourthworld.com> References: <0ec3e2ac-2634-efc3-20e0-92186cf655ee@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: I think I see the problem here: Any program that can read from stdin and write to stdout can be used as a CGI, and this includes LC standalones... - BUT - LC Server scripts are incompatible with LC Script on the desktop. In fact, it's that incompatibility that made me switch back to using standalones for server work many years ago, so it's possible to test and debug scripts locally without needing to run them in a server configuration and pray that I never need to debug them. ;) But switching back to what Jacque and I like to think of as "LC Classic CGI" means updating scripts that had been written for LC Server's unique syntax to be compatible with LC Script as implemented in the desktop. The upside is that LC Script as implemented in the standalone engine is of course fully compatible with the IDE, leading us to just one rule that may clarify issues when porting scripts from LC Server: If you can run it on your desktop, you can run it on your server. And if you can't run in on your desktop, it won't run on your server. Using the desktop engine facelessly on the server gives us all the flexibility we enjoy with LC, which also means we have many ways things can be set up to execute. Too many to write here. If you have only one script you'll ever need, you can put it in a startup handler in the standalone itself. But I find I use LC standalones so often that I prefer to make a standalone that's very slender, containing only enough code to read whatever library stack file is specified in the CGI file called, and then the standalone runs "start using" with that, and the library handles everything from there in a libraryStack handler. Whether the code is in the standalone itself or in a separate stack file, either way you can't use LC Server's "" tags in any normal LC Script execution other than in LC Server. So one way to port your LC Server script below to normal LC Script which can be run from the IDE or a standalone would be: --===========================================-- local sOutputBuffer on startup cgiStart DoTheDeed cgiEnd end startup on cgiStart -- Here you load any libs you need, read any CGI environment -- variables you might need, etc.: end cgiStart on DoTheDeed set the shellCommand to "CMD" put "" into sOutputBuffer put the time after sOutputBuffer put "
" after sOutputBuffer put Quote & "thes.exe" & Quote &&"-ui" into tShell try get shell(tShell) put "Result:" && the result & cr &"It:" && it after sOutputBuffer put "
" after sOutputBuffer open process tShell for binary read read from process tShell until EOF put "Result:" && the result & cr &"It:" && it after sOutputBuffer put "
" after sOutputBuffer catch theErr put theErr end try put cr after sOutputBuffer put the time after sOutputBuffer put "" after sOutputBuffer end DoTheDeed on cgiEnd put len( sOutputBuffer ) into tLen -- Send header: put "Content-Type: text/html" & cr &\ "Date:" && the internet date & cr &\ "Host:" && $SERVER_NAME & cr &\ "Content-Length:"&& tLen &cr&cr into tHeader put tHeader -- Send body: put sOutputBuffer -- All done: quit end cgiEnd Note a couple of key difference between normal LC Script here and the specialized form usable only in LC Server: - Here the "put" command writes immediately to stdout, whereas in LC Server it writes to an internal buffer. - LC Server writes the required HTTP header for us, whereas we need to write that ourselves when using the desktop engine. So as you see above, rather than using naked "put" commands we instead put into sOutputBuffer, and then write our header before sending it. There are other differences as well, such as the enhanced implicit merge operation done automatically with LC Server files vs. the need to explicitly call the more limited merge function when processing files that mix code and HTML. But since you're not doing that we can leave that for another time. Keep us posted with how it goes. I use standalones on a wide range of systems, including one that needs to exchange data with a client's auth server, so I know the sorts of things you want to do are quite achievable once you get oriented to moving back to normal LC Script for standalones. Tip: For local development it takes only a couple minutes to create a sort of "server emulator", which sets up any environment variables your script will be able to get from Apache by just loading them with useful values yourself. In my setup I use a global in lieu of a socket connection in my emulator, so I can pass in POST data and get back the reply all within the IDE, and with complete debugging capabilities. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Malte Brill wrote: > has anybody successfully done this? Especially on Windows? I would > like to launch a livecode built application from a liveCode server > script and get the output back (on a Server that I control) Is that > possible? If so, how? > > I tried a couple of things to no avail: > > set the shellCommand to "CMD" > put "" > put the time > put "
" > put Quote & "thes.exe" & Quote &&"-ui" into tShell > try > get shell(tShell) > put "Result:" && the result & cr &"It:" && it > put "
" > open process tShell for binary read > read from process tShell until EOF > put "Result:" && the result & cr &"It:" && it > put "
" > catch theErr > put theErr > end try > put cr > put the time > put "" > ?> > > the helper app: In the stack script: > > on startup > send "boo" to me in 500 millisecs > ? to make sure all libs are loaded > end startup > > on boo > quit > end boo > > on shutdown > write "boo" to stdout > end shutdown > > Thanks for all input I can get? > > Malte From ambassador at fourthworld.com Fri May 5 12:18:30 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Fri, 5 May 2017 09:18:30 -0700 Subject: Calling a livecode executable -ui from LC server and get back a result. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3970bebd-d11a-a8f8-ed5b-92b00e6ac1be@fourthworld.com> Mike Bonner wrote: > Is there a specific reason you need to use a built exe for this? lc > server can use stack files (start using path/to/stack) as well as > "include"ing or "require"ing extra script files, so unless you're > using functionality only available in the desktop version of lc, you > might be able to bypass the need to shell to your exe. This keeps > the nice benefit of having instanced runs controlled by a nice solid > apache server. My understanding is that LC Server has no event loop, and libURL needs that because all of its HTTP handling is done asynchronously (sync operations are emulated with an internal flag), which would require an event loop to process. One option might be to write your own replacement for the portions of libURL needed, and I started down this road a while back so I could get truly synchronous operations. However, since web servers are increasingly using HTTPS, the overhead of handling TLS was more time-consuming than I cared to bother with. If someone else has time on their hands it might be useful to have such a lib, but now that tsNet is in v8+ the use cases for it would seem limited. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Fri May 5 12:27:24 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Fri, 5 May 2017 09:27:24 -0700 Subject: http calls blocked by virus protection? In-Reply-To: <2e9d02a8-36ff-c54f-fbe5-bd75fd295f66@researchware.com> References: <2e9d02a8-36ff-c54f-fbe5-bd75fd295f66@researchware.com> Message-ID: Paul Dupuis wrote: > On 5/5/2017 10:29 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: >> Paul Dupuis wrote: >> >> > Outbound standard http connections on port 80 should NOT be block - >> > BY DEFAULT - but I just ran into a customer at a commercial >> > research site where the company block ALL internet connections >> > except those to pre-approved web sites, so some places have really >> > extreme internet security practices. >> >> Seems perhaps overkill for a research company to block most of the >> web. ;) >> > Just a tad bit, and yet, I could email the customer - at their company > email address, attachments including an EXE. Someone at this place did > not think their IT security through at all =-O OMG. Tip for anyone here looking to expand their careers, or help young people get started: the future is in security. Hundreds of thousands of jobs currently unfillable for lack of available talent. Consider CSSP or other relevant certifications, and the world is your oyster. This is the dangerous climate we're in in the meantime: -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Fri May 5 12:32:26 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Fri, 5 May 2017 09:32:26 -0700 Subject: Calling a livecode executable -ui from LC server and get back a result. In-Reply-To: <996d0b275d5bb8f09848e728790b934c@livecode.com> References: <996d0b275d5bb8f09848e728790b934c@livecode.com> Message-ID: Thanks for that background, Mark. Please help me better understand the implications: does this change mean that we can no longer run standalones facelessly on Windows by just calling them with the -ui flag while hideConsoleWindows is true? I have a number of apps that provide both GUI and faceless modes, mostly installers but a few others. What version did this change premier in? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Mark Waddingham wrote: > Hi Malte, > > On 2017-05-04 20:34, Malte Brill via use-livecode wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> has anybody successfully done this? Especially on Windows? I would >> like to launch a livecode built application from a liveCode server >> script and get the output back (on a Server that I control) Is that >> possible? If so, how? > > The problem here is a Windows 'limitation' (well design decision > really). > > Windows has two types of executable - console mode and GUI mode. > LiveCode > is a GUI mode application, which means that it detaches from the console > and does not work in the way you would expect when run from the > command-line. > > Now, a while I back I added a wee bit of code to the engine to make it > still do something console-y on Windows: on startup it attempts to > 'AttachConsole' > which at least means the engine can access the console handles it was > created > with when doing stdout/stderr/stdin type stuff. However, the limitation > here > is that the process is still 'detached' from the parent and so does not > necessarily block open process or shell. (This was done IIRC as a > request > from Roger Eller - I can't remember the exact reasons, but the code > added > seemed to help his specific case, at least). > > There's plenty of stuff about this around - Raymend Chen has plenty to > say about it. One notable article being: > > https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20090101-00/?p=19643 > > Now, one thing he links to from here is: > > > https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/junfeng/2004/02/06/how-to-make-an-application-as-both-gui-and-console-application/ > > You could try using editbin.exe to change the subsystem type > (editbin.exe is > installed with any of the Visual Studio releases, or tools): > > EDITBIN.EXE /SUBSYSTEM:CONSOLE > > Then see if this works in the way you want... It might... From mark at livecode.com Fri May 5 12:48:32 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Fri, 05 May 2017 18:48:32 +0200 Subject: Calling a livecode executable -ui from LC server and get back a result. In-Reply-To: References: <996d0b275d5bb8f09848e728790b934c@livecode.com> Message-ID: <3395820864268a1215f4980a54a92f97@livecode.com> On 2017-05-05 18:32, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > Thanks for that background, Mark. > > Please help me better understand the implications: does this change > mean that we can no longer run standalones facelessly on Windows by > just calling them with the -ui flag while hideConsoleWindows is true? No - it changes nothing. The engine has always been a GUI mode app on Windows - passing -ui just means it doesn't ever create windows (for all intents and purposes). The tweak (which was made a long time ago - probably in the 4.x series) just means that if you happen to launch a standalone from the command prompt in windows, then if it does write to stdout / stderr, then you see what is written in the console it was launched from. It still detaches (as all GUI mode apps do), and won't block the calling terminal - because that is what GUI mode apps do on Windows. Unfortunately (as the linked articles mention) it is not possible to change this behavior after the app is launched - the OS decides what to do when it is launched by looking at what SUBSYSTEM is marked in the EXE. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mark at livecode.com Fri May 5 13:22:06 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Fri, 05 May 2017 19:22:06 +0200 Subject: Calling a livecode executable -ui from LC server and get back a result. In-Reply-To: <7D8436CF-8CDD-41D9-8F54-C12AFA08333A@derbrill.de> References: <7D8436CF-8CDD-41D9-8F54-C12AFA08333A@derbrill.de> Message-ID: Hi Malte, Just an update on my previous post. I did the following: Took a community standalone engine from inside an installed LiveCode distro on Windows and copied to the desktop. Tried (from Command Prompt): Standalone.exe -ui Noticed that I just got a newline in the console, and nothing else. Did: EDITBIN.EXE /SUBSYSTEM:CONSOLE Standalone.exe Then repeated the same command (Standalone.exe -ui) and got: ERROR: Initialization error - no stackfile to run Where I would expect - in the console. Then I created a simple livecodescript file: script "foobar" on startup write "foobar" to stderr end startup Then did: Standalone.exe -ui foobar.livecodescript And got 'foobar' in the console I ran it from, and the console did nothing more (as standalone engines don't quit unless you explicitly close all stacks, or 'quit') until I did Ctrl-C. At which point control returned to the console. So - I think the EditBin suggestion will do as you want - and let you create a standalone (built or unbuilt) which runs like a normal console command so you should be able to get its output in shell() or from open process. Hope this helps! Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From revolution at derbrill.de Fri May 5 14:11:31 2017 From: revolution at derbrill.de (Malte Brill) Date: Fri, 5 May 2017 20:11:31 +0200 Subject: Calling a livecode executable -ui from LC server and get back a result. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Mark, thanks a lot for taking the time to explain things here! Very valuable information! I will certainly give it a try. Just need to install Vis Studio :-) While you are here: would you think, that a call to cURL should work on Windows server? For the life of me I can not get it to, even for the simplest calls. Always comes back with an out of memory error, which I believe is a lie in the status code. This is actually what started the experiments for me. I will give Alex suggestion a try also, as this might be a workaround that might actually work. And all that, just because some 3rd party insists on cookie authentication for a Webservice where I would need to get the Headers back from a post. *sigh* Thanks all! Malte From hh at hyperhh.de Fri May 5 14:36:56 2017 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Fri, 5 May 2017 20:36:56 +0200 Subject: looking for a smart approach to "sort" an array Message-ID: <86F82E35-8F9F-46E9-BBCF-ECCCDF8885E2@hyperhh.de> > Mike B. wrote: > repeat for each line tKey in myArrayA["sortedWords"] > -- do whatever with each one myArrayA[tKey]..... > end repeat Why administrate another object while you have already one? One could rebuild to string from array and sort in one step: put fld "myListField" into mySortList repeat for each line L in mySortList -- do whatever with each one myArrayA[L] ... end repeat From bonnmike at gmail.com Fri May 5 14:48:42 2017 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Fri, 5 May 2017 12:48:42 -0600 Subject: looking for a smart approach to "sort" an array In-Reply-To: <86F82E35-8F9F-46E9-BBCF-ECCCDF8885E2@hyperhh.de> References: <86F82E35-8F9F-46E9-BBCF-ECCCDF8885E2@hyperhh.de> Message-ID: True, wasn't sure the field would still be available. I think the O.P. mentioned rebuilding the list in user order at a later time (as in from a later program run) by loading the array data from a file. By storing the list from the field as part of the array data, it carries the user index along with the data being indexed. (could store the list many ways, but all of them require a way to actually save the list between runs, if I understand what I read) On Fri, May 5, 2017 at 12:36 PM, hh via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > Mike B. wrote: > > repeat for each line tKey in myArrayA["sortedWords"] > > -- do whatever with each one myArrayA[tKey]..... > > end repeat > > Why administrate another object while you have already one? > One could rebuild to string from array and sort in one step: > > put fld "myListField" into mySortList > repeat for each line L in mySortList > -- do whatever with each one myArrayA[L] ... > end repeat > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Fri May 5 13:23:32 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Fri, 5 May 2017 10:23:32 -0700 Subject: Calling a livecode executable -ui from LC server and get back a result. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Roger Eller wrote: > Have you considered running a faceless Desktop app as a service, > having it watch for a socket message... Pierre Sahores and I have experimented with a wide range of socket servers*, with some very promising results. That said, our independent tests seem to arrive at the same conclusion: The execution speed of LC does compare favorably with other scripting languages, but best when used behind a load balancer. Even though HTTP can be a fairly sparse protocol, without much more required overhead than you'd need for just about any general-purpose socket comms, coupling that directly with the processing of each request within a single engine instance creates bottlenecks. So I like to think of socket servers in LC as very capable solutions for "Nanoservices": similar to microservices in scope, but suitable for workgroups and other relatively low-traffic environments. Having multiple instances as workers behind a server front-end like NginX can be quite good, but doing both roles - socket I/O and processing - is a bit much to put on a single-threaded scripting engine like LC, at least in production environments set up for (hopefully) scaling public access. That said, for workgroups there's much that can be done quite wonderfully with LC taking on the role of an HTTP daemon. And as a pool of workers behind something like NginX it can stand up well against many alternatives scripting options, even in production environments. * Sampling of related links from the archives: -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Fri May 5 13:27:01 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Fri, 5 May 2017 10:27:01 -0700 Subject: Calling a livecode executable -ui from LC server and get back a result. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ah! Now the light comes on. This example, with the background provided in your previous post, make it all come together. Thanks! -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Mark Waddingham wrote: > Just an update on my previous post. I did the following: > > Took a community standalone engine from inside an installed LiveCode > distro on Windows and copied to the desktop. > > Tried (from Command Prompt): > > Standalone.exe -ui > > Noticed that I just got a newline in the console, and nothing else. > > Did: > > EDITBIN.EXE /SUBSYSTEM:CONSOLE Standalone.exe > > Then repeated the same command (Standalone.exe -ui) and got: > > ERROR: Initialization error - no stackfile to run > > Where I would expect - in the console. > > Then I created a simple livecodescript file: > > script "foobar" > on startup > write "foobar" to stderr > end startup > > Then did: > > Standalone.exe -ui foobar.livecodescript > > And got 'foobar' in the console I ran it from, and the console did > nothing more (as standalone engines don't quit unless you explicitly > close all stacks, or 'quit') until I did Ctrl-C. At which point > control returned to the console. > > So - I think the EditBin suggestion will do as you want - and let you > create a standalone (built or unbuilt) which runs like a normal > console command so you should be able to get its output in shell() or > from open process. > > Hope this helps! From hh at hyperhh.de Fri May 5 15:02:41 2017 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Fri, 5 May 2017 21:02:41 +0200 Subject: looking for a smart approach to "sort" an array Message-ID: <989AE69A-B595-4711-81DD-F11E40CF6508@hyperhh.de> Oh, sorry Mike, I didn't think deep enough. Then your approach to add the field as "sort-element" to the array is from my point of view clearly the easiest way to go. > > > Mike B. wrote: > > > repeat for each line tKey in myArrayA["sortedWords"] > > > -- do whatever with each one myArrayA[tKey]..... > > > end repeat > > > > hh wrote: > > Why administrate another object while you have already one? > > One could rebuild to string from array and sort in one step: > > > > put fld "myListField" into mySortList > > repeat for each line L in mySortList > > -- do whatever with each one myArrayA[L] ... > > end repeat > > Mike B. wrote: > True, wasn't sure the field would still be available. I think the O.P. > mentioned rebuilding the list in user order at a later time (as in from a > later program run) by loading the array data from a file. By storing the > list from the field as part of the array data, it carries the user index > along with the data being indexed. (could store the list many ways, but > all of them require a way to actually save the list between runs, if I > understand what I read) From mark at livecode.com Fri May 5 15:23:41 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Fri, 5 May 2017 20:23:41 +0100 Subject: Calling a livecode executable -ui from LC server and get back a result. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48D3D1B5-0831-48AC-827E-AE8768F60BD4@livecode.com> It is only editbin.exe you need which might floating around online on its own somewhere... Also I think the subsystem is specified in a byte in the header of a PE executable so could be twizzled with a script that modifies that byte... Probably an easy exercise for anyone who likes poking around in binary formats (search for windows PE format online should give the appropriate specs). Warmest Regards, Mark Sent from my iPhone > On 5 May 2017, at 19:11, Malte Brill via use-livecode wrote: > > Mark, > > thanks a lot for taking the time to explain things here! Very valuable information! I will certainly give it a try. Just need to install Vis Studio :-) > > While you are here: would you think, that a call to cURL should work on Windows server? For the life of me I can not get it to, even for the simplest calls. Always comes back with an out of memory error, which I believe is a lie in the status code. > This is actually what started the experiments for me. I will give Alex suggestion a try also, as this might be a workaround that might actually work. And all that, just because some 3rd party insists on cookie authentication for a Webservice where I would need to get the Headers back from a post. *sigh* > > Thanks all! > > Malte > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From cubist at aol.com Sat May 6 09:30:19 2017 From: cubist at aol.com (Quentin Long) Date: Sat, 6 May 2017 09:30:19 -0400 Subject: looking for a smart approach to "sort" an array In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <15bddf42d80-1e0b-515@webjasstg-vaa18.srv.aolmail.net> sez "Tiemo Hollmann TB" : To: "LiveCode User Liste senden" > I have a list field of words and a correspondent array with the words of the > field as the keys plus some data per key. I can store the array in a file, > read it later from file and rebuild the list of words from the keys of the > array. Up to now, I had this list of words alphabetically sorted. So it was > easy, when reloading the array to sort the list always alphabetically to > refresh the visible list in the field. > > The user can also create a custom sequence of the words in the field by drag > and drop the lines in individual order. Now I am looking for a smart > approach to keep the same sort order in the correspondent array. I need the > custom sort order of the words in case I reload the array later from file to > get the same sequence of words as the user has sorted them, after extracting > the words from the array. The key of the array has to keep the words from > the list for accessing the data in the array. > > As far as I see it, I have to add an additional item to the array data, > storing the sort sequence of the keys, while the user creates his custom > sequence of the words in the list field and keeping this number always > synchronous to the line number of the fields list. So I could use this "sort > sequence number" from the array to rebuild the same sort of the words when > extracting the words from the array. > > Would this be the best approach to keep the sort sequence of the words > stored with the array, or do you see an easier more straight forward > approach to keep the array "synchronous sorted" which I don't see right now? Use the alphabetically-sorted word-list as the keys of an array. -- MySortedList is a return-delimited list, one word per line, sorted alphabetically -- UserSortedWordList is the return-delimited list of words sorted into the user's preferred order put "" into WordArray repeat for each line LL in MySortedList put lineOffset (LL,UserSortedWordList) into WordArray[LL] next repeat I'm not entirely sure that lineOffset (or even wordOffset) are the right thing to do here; there's every danger of encountering a Scunthorpe problem, such as if "pen" and "open" are both words in the list, or "squire" and "ire", etc etc. Hmm? maybe go with comma-delimited lists, and something along the lines of "put wordOffset (comma & LL & comma, comma & UserSortedWordList & comma) into WordArray[LL]" ? If this is what Mike Bonner had in mind, chalk it up to my inability to comprehend what he wrote. "Bewitched" + "Charlie's Angels" - Charlie = "At Arm's Length" Read the webcomic at [?http://www.atarmslength.net?]! If you like "At Arm's Length", support it at [?http://www.patreon.com/DarkwingDude?]. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sat May 6 09:42:59 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Sat, 6 May 2017 16:42:59 +0300 Subject: Scrollbars in 8.1.3 Message-ID: I seem quite unable to set a scrollbar to be vertical in LC 8.1.3 (Mac OS 10.7.5). Richmond. From bonnmike at gmail.com Sat May 6 10:28:04 2017 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Sat, 6 May 2017 08:28:04 -0600 Subject: looking for a smart approach to "sort" an array In-Reply-To: <15bddf42d80-1e0b-515@webjasstg-vaa18.srv.aolmail.net> References: <15bddf42d80-1e0b-515@webjasstg-vaa18.srv.aolmail.net> Message-ID: Wasn't my post originally, but the gist of the problem was, how does one get data back out of an array based on a custom sorted list of words that are used as main array key back out of the array in the desired sequence. IE there is a list of words in a field. And an array that has extra information relating to each word keyed by array[theWord] To me, the simplest answer is to keep track of the word list and iterate through it to access each key of the array in the desired sequence. On Sat, May 6, 2017 at 7:30 AM, Quentin Long via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > sez "Tiemo Hollmann TB" : > To: "LiveCode User Liste senden" > > I have a list field of words and a correspondent array with the words of > the > > field as the keys plus some data per key. I can store the array in a > file, > > read it later from file and rebuild the list of words from the keys of > the > > array. Up to now, I had this list of words alphabetically sorted. So it > was > > easy, when reloading the array to sort the list always alphabetically to > > refresh the visible list in the field. > > > > The user can also create a custom sequence of the words in the field by > drag > > and drop the lines in individual order. Now I am looking for a smart > > approach to keep the same sort order in the correspondent array. I need > the > > custom sort order of the words in case I reload the array later from > file to > > get the same sequence of words as the user has sorted them, after > extracting > > the words from the array. The key of the array has to keep the words from > > the list for accessing the data in the array. > > > > As far as I see it, I have to add an additional item to the array data, > > storing the sort sequence of the keys, while the user creates his custom > > sequence of the words in the list field and keeping this number always > > synchronous to the line number of the fields list. So I could use this > "sort > > sequence number" from the array to rebuild the same sort of the words > when > > extracting the words from the array. > > > > Would this be the best approach to keep the sort sequence of the words > > stored with the array, or do you see an easier more straight forward > > approach to keep the array "synchronous sorted" which I don't see right > now? > Use the alphabetically-sorted word-list as the keys of an array. > > -- MySortedList is a return-delimited list, one word per line, sorted > alphabetically > -- UserSortedWordList is the return-delimited list of words sorted into > the user's preferred order > put "" into WordArray > repeat for each line LL in MySortedList > put lineOffset (LL,UserSortedWordList) into WordArray[LL] > next repeat > > I'm not entirely sure that lineOffset (or even wordOffset) are the right > thing to do here; there's every danger of encountering a Scunthorpe > problem, such as if "pen" and "open" are both words in the list, or > "squire" and "ire", etc etc. Hmm? maybe go with comma-delimited lists, and > something along the lines of "put wordOffset (comma & LL & comma, comma & > UserSortedWordList & comma) into WordArray[LL]" ? > > If this is what Mike Bonner had in mind, chalk it up to my inability to > comprehend what he wrote. > > "Bewitched" + "Charlie's Angels" - Charlie = "At Arm's Length" > > Read the webcomic at [ http://www.atarmslength.net ]! > > If you like "At Arm's Length", support it at [ http://www.patreon.com/ > DarkwingDude ]. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From paul at livecode.org Sat May 6 11:51:48 2017 From: paul at livecode.org (Paul Hibbert) Date: Sat, 6 May 2017 08:51:48 -0700 Subject: Scrollbars in 8.1.3 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: How are you trying to set the scrollbar to vertical? Setting or dragging the SB rect to the desired dimensions should automatically change it?s orientation as soon as it's width is less than it's heigh, is this not working? Paul > On May 6, 2017, at 6:42 AM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: > > I seem quite unable to set a scrollbar to > be vertical in LC 8.1.3 (Mac OS 10.7.5). > > Richmond. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jiml at netrin.com Sat May 6 13:10:11 2017 From: jiml at netrin.com (Jim Lambert) Date: Sat, 6 May 2017 10:10:11 -0700 Subject: looking for a smart approach to "sort" an array In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2AB59207-64C7-43DD-BA03-C2BFC5C4A218@netrin.com> Tiemo, > I have a list field of words and a correspondent array with the words of the > field as the keys plus some data per key. I can store the array in a file, > read it later from file and rebuild the list of words from the keys of the > array. Up to now, I had this list of words alphabetically sorted. So it was > easy, when reloading the array to sort the list always alphabetically to > refresh the visible list in the field. > > The user can also create a custom sequence of the words in the field by drag > and drop the lines in individual order. Now I am looking for a smart > approach to keep the same sort order in the correspondent array. I need the > custom sort order of the words in case I reload the array later from file to > get the same sequence of words as the user has sorted them, after extracting > the words from the array. As much as I like arrays, in this case you might consider an ?old school? approach. This approach will only work if the stack is writable and that 'plus some data per key? is just text. And the approach is - keep everything in the scrolling list field - including the OtherData. No arrays, no writing files. Set the tabstops to a number greater than the width of the field. Set the itemdelimter to tab. Then put the OtherData of each line into the second item of each line. As long as there?s no horizontal scrollbar on the field the user will never see the OtherData. Getting item 2 of the hilitedline will always give you the corresponding OtherData for the word the user has selected. Your drag and drop routines should still work. Just remember to save the stack each time the user rearranges the line order. Jim Lambert From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat May 6 14:08:29 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 6 May 2017 13:08:29 -0500 Subject: looking for a smart approach to "sort" an array In-Reply-To: <2AB59207-64C7-43DD-BA03-C2BFC5C4A218@netrin.com> References: <2AB59207-64C7-43DD-BA03-C2BFC5C4A218@netrin.com> Message-ID: On 5/6/17 12:10 PM, Jim Lambert via use-livecode wrote: > Set the tabstops to a number greater than the width of the field. > Set the itemdelimter to tab. > Then put the OtherData of each line into the second item of each line. > > As long as there?s no horizontal scrollbar on the field the user will never see the OtherData. > Getting item 2 of the hilitedline will always give you the corresponding OtherData for the word the user has selected. I've done this often, it's a nice clean solution. And now that we can set tabstops to 0, the second item won't be visible whether there's a horizontal scrollbar or not. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat May 6 15:16:11 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 6 May 2017 14:16:11 -0500 Subject: Android label and name Message-ID: <1df2d550-f947-493f-7249-396ba4c42729@hyperactivesw.com> I need to build two versions of an Android app, one for production and another for testing. It appears that the standalone builder uses the "name" property as the icon label in the Android launcher. I need the stack name to stay the same, and only the label to differ. I have tried building with only the label string changed, but in the launcher it still appears as the stack name. Is there a way to differentiate the label without changing the stack name? -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jiml at netrin.com Sat May 6 15:30:50 2017 From: jiml at netrin.com (Jim Lambert) Date: Sat, 6 May 2017 12:30:50 -0700 Subject: looking for a smart approach to "sort" an array In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > Jacque wrote: > I've done this often, it's a nice clean solution. And now that we can > set tabstops to 0, the second item won't be visible whether there's a > horizontal scrollbar or not. That?s right! tabwidths are handy for this hiding too. But I realized Tiemo might not even need to bother hiding the otherData if he takes advantage of another property of fields - the metadata property: set the metadata of line 1 of field 1 to otherDataString set the metadata of line 2 of field 1 to otherDataString2 A field?s metadata is never visible. Yet the otherData strings will travel along with each line as the user drags the the lines up and down. LiveCode offers so much flexibility! We can usually have a choice of approaches to any problem Jim Lambert From bonnmike at gmail.com Sat May 6 15:32:59 2017 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Sat, 6 May 2017 13:32:59 -0600 Subject: looking for a smart approach to "sort" an array In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Cool stuff! Didn't know you could hide things with tab, and will have to look at metadata now. Thanks! On Sat, May 6, 2017 at 1:30 PM, Jim Lambert via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > Jacque wrote: > > I've done this often, it's a nice clean solution. And now that we can > > set tabstops to 0, the second item won't be visible whether there's a > > horizontal scrollbar or not. > > > That?s right! tabwidths are handy for this hiding too. > > But I realized Tiemo might not even need to bother hiding the otherData if > he takes advantage of another property of fields - the metadata property: > > set the metadata of line 1 of field 1 to otherDataString > set the metadata of line 2 of field 1 to otherDataString2 > > A field?s metadata is never visible. > Yet the otherData strings will travel along with each line as the user > drags the the lines up and down. > > LiveCode offers so much flexibility! We can usually have a choice of > approaches to any problem > > Jim Lambert > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat May 6 16:11:01 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 6 May 2017 15:11:01 -0500 Subject: looking for a smart approach to "sort" an array In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4d33860a-7245-b23b-7233-4062d0e665c6@hyperactivesw.com> On 5/6/17 2:30 PM, Jim Lambert via use-livecode wrote: > But I realized Tiemo might not even need to bother hiding the > otherData if he takes advantage of another property of fields - the > metadata property: I forgot all about that, even though I've used it in the past. That's the best idea so far. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat May 6 16:14:49 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 6 May 2017 15:14:49 -0500 Subject: looking for a smart approach to "sort" an array In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <80b07572-0d4f-a702-ed70-d0ec056ef947@hyperactivesw.com> Use tabwidths instead of tabstops. I was working off faulty memory. On 5/6/17 2:32 PM, Mike Bonner via use-livecode wrote: > Cool stuff! Didn't know you could hide things with tab, and will have to > look at metadata now. Thanks! > > On Sat, May 6, 2017 at 1:30 PM, Jim Lambert via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> >>> Jacque wrote: >>> I've done this often, it's a nice clean solution. And now that we can >>> set tabstops to 0, the second item won't be visible whether there's a >>> horizontal scrollbar or not. >> >> >> That?s right! tabwidths are handy for this hiding too. >> >> But I realized Tiemo might not even need to bother hiding the otherData if >> he takes advantage of another property of fields - the metadata property: >> >> set the metadata of line 1 of field 1 to otherDataString >> set the metadata of line 2 of field 1 to otherDataString2 >> >> A field?s metadata is never visible. >> Yet the otherData strings will travel along with each line as the user >> drags the the lines up and down. >> >> LiveCode offers so much flexibility! We can usually have a choice of >> approaches to any problem >> >> Jim Lambert >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sat May 6 16:21:57 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sat, 6 May 2017 13:21:57 -0700 Subject: Android label and name In-Reply-To: <1df2d550-f947-493f-7249-396ba4c42729@hyperactivesw.com> References: <1df2d550-f947-493f-7249-396ba4c42729@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: J. Landman Gay wrote: > I need to build two versions of an Android app, one for production > and another for testing. It appears that the standalone builder uses > the "name" property as the icon label in the Android launcher. I need > the stack name to stay the same, and only the label to differ. > > I have tried building with only the label string changed, but in the > launcher it still appears as the stack name. Is there a way to > differentiate the label without changing the stack name? IMNSHO that would be a bug. Object labels are for display to end-users; object names are for developers to code for. Please post the bug # here so we can follow its progress. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sat May 6 16:28:26 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Sat, 6 May 2017 23:28:26 +0300 Subject: Scrollbars in 8.1.3 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <87b73216-cdc6-073f-153c-b7ab2604f6df@gmail.com> I don't know. I just set up a vertical scrollbar in an LC 7.1.4 stack, saved it and opened it up in 8.1.3. Richmond. On 5/6/17 6:51 pm, Paul Hibbert via use-livecode wrote: > How are you trying to set the scrollbar to vertical? > > Setting or dragging the SB rect to the desired dimensions should automatically change it?s orientation as soon as it's width is less than it's heigh, is this not working? > > Paul > > >> On May 6, 2017, at 6:42 AM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: >> >> I seem quite unable to set a scrollbar to >> be vertical in LC 8.1.3 (Mac OS 10.7.5). >> >> Richmond. >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat May 6 16:41:57 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 6 May 2017 15:41:57 -0500 Subject: Android label and name In-Reply-To: References: <1df2d550-f947-493f-7249-396ba4c42729@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: On 5/6/17 3:21 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > J. Landman Gay wrote: > >> I need to build two versions of an Android app, one for production >> and another for testing. It appears that the standalone builder uses >> the "name" property as the icon label in the Android launcher. I need >> the stack name to stay the same, and only the label to differ. >> >> I have tried building with only the label string changed, but in the >> launcher it still appears as the stack name. Is there a way to >> differentiate the label without changing the stack name? > > IMNSHO that would be a bug. > > Object labels are for display to end-users; object names are for > developers to code for. > > Please post the bug # here so we can follow its progress. > I'm not sure yet if it's a bug or just something extra I should add to the manifest. Android uses a complex inheritance for labelling which I don't quite understand. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From paul at livecode.org Sat May 6 16:53:56 2017 From: paul at livecode.org (Paul Hibbert) Date: Sat, 6 May 2017 13:53:56 -0700 Subject: Scrollbars in 8.1.3 In-Reply-To: <87b73216-cdc6-073f-153c-b7ab2604f6df@gmail.com> References: <87b73216-cdc6-073f-153c-b7ab2604f6df@gmail.com> Message-ID: In LC 7.1.4 you can set the orientation property in the inspector panel under Basic Properties, but not in LC 8.1.3 for some reason, the option menu is greyed out which suggests it could be a bug to me, however, the dictionary states: Use the orientation property <> to find out whether a scrollbar <> is horizontal or vertical. If the scrollbar's height <> is greater than or equal to its width <>, the scrollbar <> is vertical. If the width <> is greater than the height <>, the scrollbar <> is horizontal. To change a scrollbar's orientation, change its width <> and height <> properties <>. The dictionary for LC7 or 8 doesn?t say you can set this property, and if you try using the message box it tells you that it can?t set this property. So I guess you will have to set the orientation by setting the size to suit in LC 8.1.3. I don?t see why the option should be greyed out though. Paul Paul paul at livecode.org Mac OS Sierra 10.12.1 > On May 6, 2017, at 1:28 PM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: > > I don't know. > > I just set up a vertical scrollbar in an LC 7.1.4 stack, saved it and opened it up in 8.1.3. > > Richmond. > > On 5/6/17 6:51 pm, Paul Hibbert via use-livecode wrote: >> How are you trying to set the scrollbar to vertical? >> >> Setting or dragging the SB rect to the desired dimensions should automatically change it?s orientation as soon as it's width is less than it's heigh, is this not working? >> >> Paul >> >> >>> On May 6, 2017, at 6:42 AM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> I seem quite unable to set a scrollbar to >>> be vertical in LC 8.1.3 (Mac OS 10.7.5). >>> >>> Richmond. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From kaveh at rivervalleytechnologies.com Sat May 6 19:19:29 2017 From: kaveh at rivervalleytechnologies.com (Kaveh Bazargan) Date: Sun, 7 May 2017 00:19:29 +0100 Subject: mySQL connection fine in LiveCode but error in standalone Message-ID: Hi folks I am a definite newbie to databases, but I have been reading from a mysql database on the Mac running LC 9. The command is: revOpenDatabase("MySQL", DatabaseAddress, DatabaseName, DatabaseUser, DatabasePassword) When I export to standalone I get the "revdberr, invalid database" type error. Sorry not much more info but I wonder if there is a simple thing I am missing. Is it perhaps that the password cannot be saved in the stack? -- Kaveh Bazargan Director River Valley Technologies @kaveh1000 +44 7771 824 111 www.rivervalleytechnologies.com From bonnmike at gmail.com Sat May 6 19:56:19 2017 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Sat, 6 May 2017 17:56:19 -0600 Subject: mySQL connection fine in LiveCode but error in standalone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm wondering if the mySql db driver is being included. If you view the package contents then drill down to Contents/MacOS/Externals/database_drivers is there a dbmysql.bundle folder? Another thing to check would be WHEN do you try to open the database? If you do it in preopenstack, you might be trying to open the db before the drivers are completely loaded. Other than that, not sure. On Sat, May 6, 2017 at 5:19 PM, Kaveh Bazargan via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hi folks > > I am a definite newbie to databases, but I have been reading from a mysql > database on the Mac running LC 9. The command is: > > revOpenDatabase("MySQL", DatabaseAddress, DatabaseName, DatabaseUser, > DatabasePassword) > > When I export to standalone I get the "revdberr, invalid database" type > error. > > Sorry not much more info but I wonder if there is a simple thing I am > missing. Is it perhaps that the password cannot be saved in the stack? > > -- > Kaveh Bazargan > Director > River Valley Technologies > @kaveh1000 > +44 7771 824 111 > www.rivervalleytechnologies.com > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From brahma at hindu.org Sat May 6 21:37:58 2017 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Sun, 7 May 2017 01:37:58 +0000 Subject: Escape From Script In Use Blocking? Message-ID: <34399D32-2C45-460B-90E9-D952E55F3DD7@hindu.org> if you manage to do something odd in an on preopencard script such that a) no error msg appears b) attempts to change the script are blocked with: "cannot change script while is it executing How to you get out? I have a good idea what is wrong but cannot change the script or enter a break point to step through the code to see issues? cmd dot doesn?t halt anything either. BR From sundown at pacifier.com Sat May 6 21:46:57 2017 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Sat, 6 May 2017 18:46:57 -0700 Subject: Shell argv Message-ID: <115B5903-A0BB-4095-8E7C-0B140D37AE89@pacifier.com> To use a shell command it needs to work from the terminal. I am using OS X 10.11.6 and if I try to open a Xcode c build named my_file I type in the terminal, open my_file and the file my_file will open. I want to pass arguments to argv but the never get passed. I have tried the following; open my_file ?args arg1 The argument never gets passed. Does anyone know how to pass arguments to argv from the terminal when open a file so I can use the script from a shell command? JB From brahma at hindu.org Sat May 6 22:43:43 2017 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Sun, 7 May 2017 02:43:43 +0000 Subject: Relayering Controls in 9 dp5 problematic? Message-ID: <6C8594D7-47C5-41B7-B321-70E049809355@hindu.org> layout card make some controls click on prop inspector try to set the layer of fld now set to layer 6 nothing happens, IDE "blinks" are resets the field to 6 select fld; object menu, arrange, send back? now it works property inspector is not updated. use revApplicationOverview, click on a control button "whatever" and instead we get inspector for fld "title" even thought control button is highlighted. Go back to Project Browser. Hmm? one control I tried to set to layer 2, does now in fact as layer 2 three of these controls were previously in a group. I ungrouped them theoretically that group is now "gone" from the stack? relayerGroupControls is true (even though there is no group on the card)? still cannot relayer some objects? What other conditions will "lock" a control into a specific layer? Anyone else struggling with this? BR From brahma at hindu.org Sun May 7 00:15:02 2017 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Sun, 7 May 2017 04:15:02 +0000 Subject: Bitten by Group Default Margins Message-ID: <70D6C86F-098C-4F98-A6D4-E27E374A762E@hindu.org> We discussed this before on this list, but I wanted to bring it up again. I don't remember any conclusions. Are we the only ones who would prefer that the engine not auto set group margins to 4? This bit us hard recently as one member of the team who was not familiar with this issue spent a lot of time trying to get some dynamic responsive layout to work. Even if the script set the group rect to 0,0,50, (the width of this card) and then you created a background grc 0,0,50, (the width of this card) We kept seeing a 4 pixel transparent offset on the screen, as if the group were offset (in fact it wasn't the margins were forcing child elements to be inset, as if the coords of the child controls were relative to the 4 x offset of the group. instead of the card itself. it got worse: even if you set the margins of the group to 0 *after* resizing all it's child elements, the prop inspector, after the layout was done, showed margins were 4 pixels, which to me seems completely "bogus" The only way I could get it to lay out correctly was this this esoteric hack: # at the beginning of the layout handler: set the width of group "header" to (the width of this card +8) # over compensate for the default margins set the left of group "header" to -4 # centers the group so that the x,y coord of the child elements are now at card edge set the top of group "header" to 0 set the margins of group "header" to 0 # Important! so that child elements will not be offset. # now you can set all the child elements to the width of the card # and when you inspect the group, the topleft is 0 and the margins are 0 isn't this "just wrong" ?? Doesn't it make more intuitive sense that if I set a group topleft to 0,0 and child element to 0,0 that it would be flush with the top left of the card? BR From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sun May 7 00:29:23 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sat, 6 May 2017 21:29:23 -0700 Subject: Bitten by Group Default Margins In-Reply-To: <70D6C86F-098C-4F98-A6D4-E27E374A762E@hindu.org> References: <70D6C86F-098C-4F98-A6D4-E27E374A762E@hindu.org> Message-ID: <9240fe27-1702-aaeb-8098-90e782254050@fourthworld.com> Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote: > Are we the only ones who would prefer that the engine not auto set > group margins to 4? I would prefer 0, but we're about 20 years too late to change it now. Easy enough to change the property to anything you want. > it got worse: even if you set the margins of the group to 0 *after* > resizing all it's child elements, the prop inspector, after the > layout was done, showed margins were 4 pixels, which to me seems > completely "bogus" Does the margin of the group itself become smaller when you set it to a smaller number? There may be an update bug in the PB; one way to check that would be to close and then re-open the PB. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From mark at livecode.com Sun May 7 07:36:32 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Sun, 7 May 2017 12:36:32 +0100 Subject: Relayering Controls in 9 dp5 problematic? In-Reply-To: <6C8594D7-47C5-41B7-B321-70E049809355@hindu.org> References: <6C8594D7-47C5-41B7-B321-70E049809355@hindu.org> Message-ID: I think there was a bug in dp5 with respect to relayering... It was either fixed in dp6 or will be in dp7 (when that finally appears!). Mark. Sent from my iPhone > On 7 May 2017, at 03:43, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode wrote: > > layout card > make some controls > click on prop inspector > try to set the layer of fld now set to layer 6 > > nothing happens, IDE "blinks" are resets the field to 6 > > select fld; object menu, arrange, send back? now it works > > property inspector is not updated. use revApplicationOverview, click on a control button "whatever" and instead we get inspector for fld "title" even thought control button is highlighted. > > Go back to Project Browser. Hmm? one control I tried to set to layer 2, does now in fact as layer 2 > > three of these controls were previously in a group. I ungrouped them theoretically that group is now "gone" from the stack? > > relayerGroupControls is true (even though there is no group on the card)? still cannot relayer some objects? > > What other conditions will "lock" a control into a specific layer? > > Anyone else struggling with this? > > BR > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From merakosp at gmail.com Sun May 7 07:40:23 2017 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Sun, 7 May 2017 12:40:23 +0100 Subject: Relayering Controls in 9 dp5 problematic? In-Reply-To: References: <6C8594D7-47C5-41B7-B321-70E049809355@hindu.org> Message-ID: Hi all, This is the bug: http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19349 which will be fixed in LC 9 DP7. Best, Panos -- On Sun, May 7, 2017 at 12:36 PM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I think there was a bug in dp5 with respect to relayering... It was either > fixed in dp6 or will be in dp7 (when that finally appears!). > > Mark. > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On 7 May 2017, at 03:43, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > layout card > > make some controls > > click on prop inspector > > try to set the layer of fld now set to layer 6 > > > > nothing happens, IDE "blinks" are resets the field to 6 > > > > select fld; object menu, arrange, send back? now it works > > > > property inspector is not updated. use revApplicationOverview, click on > a control button "whatever" and instead we get inspector for fld "title" > even thought control button is highlighted. > > > > Go back to Project Browser. Hmm? one control I tried to set to layer 2, > does now in fact as layer 2 > > > > three of these controls were previously in a group. I ungrouped them > theoretically that group is now "gone" from the stack? > > > > relayerGroupControls is true (even though there is no group on the > card)? still cannot relayer some objects? > > > > What other conditions will "lock" a control into a specific layer? > > > > Anyone else struggling with this? > > > > BR > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sun May 7 11:36:10 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sun, 07 May 2017 10:36:10 -0500 Subject: Escape From Script In Use Blocking? In-Reply-To: <34399D32-2C45-460B-90E9-D952E55F3DD7@hindu.org> References: <34399D32-2C45-460B-90E9-D952E55F3DD7@hindu.org> Message-ID: <15be38dc210.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Sometimes a hard coded breakpoint command works. But it's easier to click the Messages button in the toolbar before going to the card so that no messages are sent at all. Note that in LC 9 dp6 I've had occasional lockups when using the Messages button so save the stack first. The team couldn't reproduce it so there's no fix yet, and I can't find a reliable recipe. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On May 6, 2017 8:39:58 PM Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode wrote: > if you manage to do something odd in an on preopencard script such that > > a) no error msg appears > b) attempts to change the script are blocked with: > > "cannot change script while is it executing > > How to you get out? I have a good idea what is wrong but cannot change the > script or enter a break point to step through the code to see issues? > > cmd dot doesn?t halt anything either. > > BR > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From kaveh at rivervalleytechnologies.com Sun May 7 12:06:46 2017 From: kaveh at rivervalleytechnologies.com (Kaveh Bazargan) Date: Sun, 7 May 2017 17:06:46 +0100 Subject: mySQL connection fine in LiveCode but error in standalone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Mike Thanks for the reply there is indeed a dbmysql.bundle included in the package. should that not be there? The database should be connecting on openstack. But there is also a separate button that should connect, but that is giving the same error. On 7 May 2017 at 00:56, Mike Bonner via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I'm wondering if the mySql db driver is being included. If you view the > package contents then drill down to > Contents/MacOS/Externals/database_drivers is there a dbmysql.bundle > folder? > > Another thing to check would be WHEN do you try to open the database? If > you do it in preopenstack, you might be trying to open the db before the > drivers are completely loaded. > > Other than that, not sure. > > > On Sat, May 6, 2017 at 5:19 PM, Kaveh Bazargan via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > Hi folks > > > > I am a definite newbie to databases, but I have been reading from a mysql > > database on the Mac running LC 9. The command is: > > > > revOpenDatabase("MySQL", DatabaseAddress, DatabaseName, DatabaseUser, > > DatabasePassword) > > > > When I export to standalone I get the "revdberr, invalid database" type > > error. > > > > Sorry not much more info but I wonder if there is a simple thing I am > > missing. Is it perhaps that the password cannot be saved in the stack? > > > > -- > > Kaveh Bazargan > > Director > > River Valley Technologies > > @kaveh1000 > > +44 7771 824 111 > > www.rivervalleytechnologies.com > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Kaveh Bazargan Director River Valley Technologies @kaveh1000 +44 7771 824 111 www.rivervalleytechnologies.com From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Sun May 7 12:57:34 2017 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe) Date: Sun, 7 May 2017 18:57:34 +0200 Subject: mySQL connection fine in LiveCode but error in standalone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7D0F78BE-425C-4AB1-B0CC-EF0C66B43D20@m-r-d.de> Hi Kaveh, by any chance, are you using LC9 DP6? I noticed exactly this in DP6 and went back to DP5. It seems to be a regression bug in DP6. See http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19429 Regards, Matthias Matthias Rebbe Bramkampsieke 13 32312 L?bbecke Tel +49 5741 310000 +49 160 5504462 Fax: +49 5741 310002 eMail: matthias at m-r-d.de BR5 Konverter - BR5 -> MP3 > Am 07.05.2017 um 01:19 schrieb Kaveh Bazargan via use-livecode >: > > Hi folks > > I am a definite newbie to databases, but I have been reading from a mysql > database on the Mac running LC 9. The command is: > > revOpenDatabase("MySQL", DatabaseAddress, DatabaseName, DatabaseUser, > DatabasePassword) > > When I export to standalone I get the "revdberr, invalid database" type > error. > > Sorry not much more info but I wonder if there is a simple thing I am > missing. Is it perhaps that the password cannot be saved in the stack? > > -- > Kaveh Bazargan > Director > River Valley Technologies > @kaveh1000 > +44 7771 824 111 > www.rivervalleytechnologies.com > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From kaveh at rivervalleytechnologies.com Sun May 7 13:28:17 2017 From: kaveh at rivervalleytechnologies.com (Kaveh Bazargan) Date: Sun, 7 May 2017 18:28:17 +0100 Subject: mySQL connection fine in LiveCode but error in standalone In-Reply-To: <7D0F78BE-425C-4AB1-B0CC-EF0C66B43D20@m-r-d.de> References: <7D0F78BE-425C-4AB1-B0CC-EF0C66B43D20@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: It worked!!! Thank you so much Matthias and Mike. :-) On 7 May 2017 at 17:57, Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hi Kaveh, > > by any chance, are you using LC9 DP6? > I noticed exactly this in DP6 and went back to DP5. > > It seems to be a regression bug in DP6. See http://quality.livecode.com/ > show_bug.cgi?id=19429 > > Regards, > > Matthias > > > > Matthias Rebbe > Bramkampsieke 13 > 32312 L?bbecke > Tel +49 5741 310000 > +49 160 5504462 > Fax: +49 5741 310002 > eMail: matthias at m-r-d.de > > BR5 Konverter - BR5 -> MP3 portfolio/produkte/brx/> > > Am 07.05.2017 um 01:19 schrieb Kaveh Bazargan via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >: > > > > Hi folks > > > > I am a definite newbie to databases, but I have been reading from a mysql > > database on the Mac running LC 9. The command is: > > > > revOpenDatabase("MySQL", DatabaseAddress, DatabaseName, DatabaseUser, > > DatabasePassword) > > > > When I export to standalone I get the "revdberr, invalid database" type > > error. > > > > Sorry not much more info but I wonder if there is a simple thing I am > > missing. Is it perhaps that the password cannot be saved in the stack? > > > > -- > > Kaveh Bazargan > > Director > > River Valley Technologies > > @kaveh1000 > > +44 7771 824 111 > > www.rivervalleytechnologies.com > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Kaveh Bazargan Director River Valley Technologies @kaveh1000 +44 7771 824 111 www.rivervalleytechnologies.com From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sun May 7 14:15:03 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Sun, 7 May 2017 21:15:03 +0300 Subject: grabbing an SVG? Message-ID: <33ab112e-9b89-045b-997c-60beb23df82a@gmail.com> If I import an image into a stack and give it this script: on mouseDown grab me end mouseDown it works superbly: I can grab the image with my mouse and take it for a walk round the stack, and when I release the mouse button I drop the image. If I do that with an SVG widget things don't behave in the same way at all, at all. Richmond. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sun May 7 14:24:36 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Sun, 7 May 2017 21:24:36 +0300 Subject: grabbing an SVG? In-Reply-To: <33ab112e-9b89-045b-997c-60beb23df82a@gmail.com> References: <33ab112e-9b89-045b-997c-60beb23df82a@gmail.com> Message-ID: <9906f8c5-f505-45a5-9e94-27fa689a17ce@gmail.com> Oh, look, just for a change I am replying to my own message: On 5/7/17 9:15 pm, Richmond Mathewson wrote: > If I import an image into a stack and give it this script: > > on mouseDown > grab me > end mouseDown > > it works superbly: I can grab the image with my mouse and take it for > a walk round the stack, > and when I release the mouse button I drop the image. > > If I do that with an SVG widget things don't behave in the same way at > all, at all. > > Richmond. Turns out that if you GROUP the widget and put the GRAB script in the group things work as they should . . . . . . Documentation . . . cough, cough Richmond. From klaus at major-k.de Sun May 7 14:29:36 2017 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Sun, 7 May 2017 20:29:36 +0200 Subject: grabbing an SVG? In-Reply-To: <9906f8c5-f505-45a5-9e94-27fa689a17ce@gmail.com> References: <33ab112e-9b89-045b-997c-60beb23df82a@gmail.com> <9906f8c5-f505-45a5-9e94-27fa689a17ce@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Richmond, > Am 07.05.2017 um 20:24 schrieb Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode : > > Oh, look, just for a change I am replying to my own message: > > On 5/7/17 9:15 pm, Richmond Mathewson wrote: >> If I import an image into a stack and give it this script: >> >> on mouseDown >> grab me >> end mouseDown >> >> it works superbly: I can grab the image with my mouse and take it for a walk round the stack, >> and when I release the mouse button I drop the image. >> >> If I do that with an SVG widget things don't behave in the same way at all, at all. >> >> Richmond. > Turns out that if you GROUP the widget and put the GRAB script in the group things > work as they should . . . > > . . . Documentation . . . cough, cough I'm afraid most, if not all, widgets have not been programmed to react on any "mouse" message. Not sure if that is by purpose or not and if yes why 8-) > Richmond. Best Klaus -- Klaus Major http://www.major-k.de klaus at major-k.de From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sun May 7 14:33:03 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Sun, 7 May 2017 21:33:03 +0300 Subject: grabbing an SVG? In-Reply-To: References: <33ab112e-9b89-045b-997c-60beb23df82a@gmail.com> <9906f8c5-f505-45a5-9e94-27fa689a17ce@gmail.com> Message-ID: I'm probably (not for the first time) being naive, BUT . . . I want to import SVG images and have them behave exactly like other imported IMAGES with the +++ of scalability and the non-fuzzy-edged rotations, rather than "a whole different species". Richmond. On 5/7/17 9:29 pm, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > Hi Richmond, > >> Am 07.05.2017 um 20:24 schrieb Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode : >> >> Oh, look, just for a change I am replying to my own message: >> >> On 5/7/17 9:15 pm, Richmond Mathewson wrote: >>> If I import an image into a stack and give it this script: >>> >>> on mouseDown >>> grab me >>> end mouseDown >>> >>> it works superbly: I can grab the image with my mouse and take it for a walk round the stack, >>> and when I release the mouse button I drop the image. >>> >>> If I do that with an SVG widget things don't behave in the same way at all, at all. >>> >>> Richmond. >> Turns out that if you GROUP the widget and put the GRAB script in the group things >> work as they should . . . >> >> . . . Documentation . . . cough, cough > I'm afraid most, if not all, widgets have not been programmed to react on any "mouse" message. > Not sure if that is by purpose or not and if yes why 8-) > >> Richmond. > Best > > Klaus > > -- > Klaus Major > http://www.major-k.de > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From hh at hyperhh.de Sun May 7 16:15:07 2017 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Sun, 7 May 2017 22:15:07 +0200 Subject: grabbing an SVG? Message-ID: Sadly grouping doesn't work with all widgets, e.g. try the clock widget. Essentially the widget author has to program the mouseEvents, at least he/she has to pass them. For the problems behind mouseEvents and widgets please read http://forums.livecode.com/posting.php?mode=reply&f=93&t=24369 especially Mark Waddingham's answers. From hh at hyperhh.de Sun May 7 16:29:36 2017 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Sun, 7 May 2017 22:29:36 +0200 Subject: grabbing an SVG? Message-ID: <0A8E1DF7-0F03-48C0-BDBF-2D96D74D6832@hyperhh.de> Sorry, the link was wrong, here the correct link: 'handling of mouse messages in widgets' http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?p=126054#p126054 From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sun May 7 16:41:59 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Sun, 7 May 2017 23:41:59 +0300 Subject: grabbing an SVG? In-Reply-To: <0A8E1DF7-0F03-48C0-BDBF-2D96D74D6832@hyperhh.de> References: <0A8E1DF7-0F03-48C0-BDBF-2D96D74D6832@hyperhh.de> Message-ID: My remarks were only about SVG images. Richmond. On May 7, 2017 11:30 PM, "hh via use-livecode" < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Sorry, the link was wrong, here the correct link: > > 'handling of mouse messages in widgets' > http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?p=126054#p126054 > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From kaveh at rivervalleytechnologies.com Sun May 7 16:55:21 2017 From: kaveh at rivervalleytechnologies.com (Kaveh Bazargan) Date: Sun, 7 May 2017 21:55:21 +0100 Subject: User friendly functions to replace MySQL queries? Message-ID: Hi all Writing MySQL queries using LiveCode is a bit painful, so I thought of writing some higher level functions to produce the queries, a bit like these from Ken Ray: http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/livecode/tips/data005.htm But before I start I wonder if anyone else has done these. I know Andr? Garcia wrote a big package, but his site seems down: http://www.andregarzia.com/page/revspark Any pointers please? -- Kaveh Bazargan Director River Valley Technologies @kaveh1000 +44 7771 824 111 www.rivervalleytechnologies.com From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Sun May 7 17:02:11 2017 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe) Date: Sun, 7 May 2017 23:02:11 +0200 Subject: User friendly functions to replace MySQL queries? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: you find revspark now here https://bitbucket.org/andregarzia/revspark > Am 07.05.2017 um 22:55 schrieb Kaveh Bazargan via use-livecode >: > > Hi all > > Writing MySQL queries using LiveCode is a bit painful, so I thought of > writing some higher level functions to produce the queries, a bit like > these from Ken Ray: > > http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/livecode/tips/data005.htm > > But before I start I wonder if anyone else has done these. > > I know Andr? Garcia wrote a big package, but his site seems down: > > http://www.andregarzia.com/page/revspark > > Any pointers please? > > -- > Kaveh Bazargan > Director > River Valley Technologies > @kaveh1000 > +44 7771 824 111 > www.rivervalleytechnologies.com > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode Matthias Rebbe Bramkampsieke 13 32312 L?bbecke Tel +49 5741 310000 +49 160 5504462 Fax: +49 5741 310002 eMail: matthias at m-r-d.de BR5 Konverter - BR5 -> MP3 From alex at tweedly.net Sun May 7 17:57:58 2017 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Sun, 7 May 2017 22:57:58 +0100 Subject: User friendly functions to replace MySQL queries? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2c7c1b90-eaa3-02fb-3603-9889b1a05dd6@tweedly.net> If it's a user-friendly way to call SQL, I don't think you want revSpark, you want his DBLib. I think the current / latest is at https://github.com/Himalayan-Academy/Siva-Siva-App/wiki/aagDBLib -- Alex. On 07/05/2017 21:55, Kaveh Bazargan via use-livecode wrote: > Hi all > > Writing MySQL queries using LiveCode is a bit painful, so I thought of > writing some higher level functions to produce the queries, a bit like > these from Ken Ray: > > http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/livecode/tips/data005.htm > > But before I start I wonder if anyone else has done these. > > I know Andr? Garcia wrote a big package, but his site seems down: > > http://www.andregarzia.com/page/revspark > > Any pointers please? > From kaveh at rivervalleytechnologies.com Sun May 7 19:03:49 2017 From: kaveh at rivervalleytechnologies.com (Kaveh Bazargan) Date: Mon, 8 May 2017 00:03:49 +0100 Subject: User friendly functions to replace MySQL queries? In-Reply-To: <2c7c1b90-eaa3-02fb-3603-9889b1a05dd6@tweedly.net> References: <2c7c1b90-eaa3-02fb-3603-9889b1a05dd6@tweedly.net> Message-ID: That's the one. :-) Sorry for the confusion and thanks... On 7 May 2017 at 22:57, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > If it's a user-friendly way to call SQL, I don't think you want revSpark, > you want his DBLib. > > I think the current / latest is at > > https://github.com/Himalayan-Academy/Siva-Siva-App/wiki/aagDBLib > > -- Alex. > > On 07/05/2017 21:55, Kaveh Bazargan via use-livecode wrote: > >> Hi all >> >> Writing MySQL queries using LiveCode is a bit painful, so I thought of >> writing some higher level functions to produce the queries, a bit like >> these from Ken Ray: >> >> http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/livecode/tips/data005.htm >> >> But before I start I wonder if anyone else has done these. >> >> I know Andr? Garcia wrote a big package, but his site seems down: >> >> http://www.andregarzia.com/page/revspark >> >> Any pointers please? >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Kaveh Bazargan Director River Valley Technologies @kaveh1000 +44 7771 824 111 www.rivervalleytechnologies.com From toolbook at kestner.de Mon May 8 04:34:04 2017 From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB) Date: Mon, 8 May 2017 10:34:04 +0200 Subject: AW: looking for a smart approach to "sort" an array In-Reply-To: <80b07572-0d4f-a702-ed70-d0ec056ef947@hyperactivesw.com> References: <80b07572-0d4f-a702-ed70-d0ec056ef947@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <004401d2c7d5$db16ed40$9144c7c0$@kestner.de> Thank you all for your nice ideas Tiemo -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag von J. Landman Gay via use-livecode Gesendet: Samstag, 6. Mai 2017 22:15 An: How to use LiveCode Cc: J. Landman Gay Betreff: Re: looking for a smart approach to "sort" an array Use tabwidths instead of tabstops. I was working off faulty memory. On 5/6/17 2:32 PM, Mike Bonner via use-livecode wrote: > Cool stuff! Didn't know you could hide things with tab, and will have > to look at metadata now. Thanks! > > On Sat, May 6, 2017 at 1:30 PM, Jim Lambert via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> >>> Jacque wrote: >>> I've done this often, it's a nice clean solution. And now that we >>> can set tabstops to 0, the second item won't be visible whether >>> there's a horizontal scrollbar or not. >> >> >> That?s right! tabwidths are handy for this hiding too. >> >> But I realized Tiemo might not even need to bother hiding the >> otherData if he takes advantage of another property of fields - the metadata property: >> >> set the metadata of line 1 of field 1 to otherDataString >> set the metadata of line 2 of field 1 to otherDataString2 >> >> A field?s metadata is never visible. >> Yet the otherData strings will travel along with each line as the >> user drags the the lines up and down. >> >> LiveCode offers so much flexibility! We can usually have a choice of >> approaches to any problem >> >> Jim Lambert >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From iphonelagi at gmail.com Mon May 8 06:22:15 2017 From: iphonelagi at gmail.com (Lagi Pittas) Date: Mon, 8 May 2017 11:22:15 +0100 Subject: looking for a smart approach to "sort" an array In-Reply-To: <004401d2c7d5$db16ed40$9144c7c0$@kestner.de> References: <80b07572-0d4f-a702-ed70-d0ec056ef947@hyperactivesw.com> <004401d2c7d5$db16ed40$9144c7c0$@kestner.de> Message-ID: Jim You are a Godsend - I never knew of the metadata - I have a whole lot of refactoring to do. I was using the "hidden" tab fields trick but this is way better This is going to make so much stuff so easy - and so much easier to debug Thanks again Lagi On 8 May 2017 at 09:34, Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Thank you all for your nice ideas > Tiemo > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] Im > Auftrag von J. Landman Gay via use-livecode > Gesendet: Samstag, 6. Mai 2017 22:15 > An: How to use LiveCode > Cc: J. Landman Gay > Betreff: Re: looking for a smart approach to "sort" an array > > Use tabwidths instead of tabstops. I was working off faulty memory. > > > On 5/6/17 2:32 PM, Mike Bonner via use-livecode wrote: > > Cool stuff! Didn't know you could hide things with tab, and will have > > to look at metadata now. Thanks! > > > > On Sat, May 6, 2017 at 1:30 PM, Jim Lambert via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > >> > >>> Jacque wrote: > >>> I've done this often, it's a nice clean solution. And now that we > >>> can set tabstops to 0, the second item won't be visible whether > >>> there's a horizontal scrollbar or not. > >> > >> > >> That?s right! tabwidths are handy for this hiding too. > >> > >> But I realized Tiemo might not even need to bother hiding the > >> otherData if he takes advantage of another property of fields - the > metadata property: > >> > >> set the metadata of line 1 of field 1 to otherDataString > >> set the metadata of line 2 of field 1 to otherDataString2 > >> > >> A field?s metadata is never visible. > >> Yet the otherData strings will travel along with each line as the > >> user drags the the lines up and down. > >> > >> LiveCode offers so much flexibility! We can usually have a choice of > >> approaches to any problem > >> > >> Jim Lambert > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From panos.merakos at livecode.com Mon May 8 09:43:27 2017 From: panos.merakos at livecode.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Mon, 8 May 2017 14:43:27 +0100 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 81 Message-ID: Hi all, Read about new developments in LiveCode open source and the open source community in today's edition of the "This Week in LiveCode" newsletter! Read issue #81 here: https://goo.gl/oWGt3h This is a weekly newsletter about LiveCode, focussing on what's been going on in and around the open source project. New issues will be released weekly on Mondays. We have a dedicated mailing list that will deliver each issue directly to you e-mail, so you don't miss any! If you have anything you'd like mentioned (a project, a discussion somewhere, an upcoming event) then please get in touch. -- Panagiotis Merakos LiveCode Software Developer Everyone Can Create Apps From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon May 8 10:46:17 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 8 May 2017 07:46:17 -0700 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 81 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: panagiotis merakos wrote: > Read about new developments in LiveCode open source and the open > source community in today's edition of the "This Week in LiveCode" > newsletter! > > Read issue #81 here: https://goo.gl/oWGt3h Thanks for the update, Panos. That page includes: Updates in the LiveCode open source project Notable changes New tsNet version: Expected in LiveCode 8.1.4 RC2 I had thought tsNet was not included in the open source edition, no? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Mon May 8 11:10:52 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Mon, 8 May 2017 15:10:52 +0000 Subject: looking for a smart approach to "sort" an array In-Reply-To: References: <15bddf42d80-1e0b-515@webjasstg-vaa18.srv.aolmail.net> Message-ID: <2923C786-C22D-4882-9DD8-923E7A8A8E3B@iotecdigital.com> Every time you state the problem you are trying to solve, I catch myself saying "This is not how I would do it." Array values are not searchable, which makes it unsuitable for searching. Fields can be searched easily enough, datagrids without too much more trouble are searchable, and databases are the best way to go about this. You can load/save the data you put into the field with openCard/closeCard, and let the user do whatever they want with the data itself. If all you are trying to do is let the user rearrange and save data in a field, why not just load/save the contents of the field in a property on openCard/closeCard? I do not grasp why the transform to an array is accomplishing anything. Bob S > On May 6, 2017, at 07:28 , Mike Bonner via use-livecode wrote: > > Wasn't my post originally, but the gist of the problem was, how does one > get data back out of an array based on a custom sorted list of words that > are used as main array key back out of the array in the desired sequence. > > IE there is a list of words in a field. And an array that has extra > information relating to each word keyed by array[theWord] > > To me, the simplest answer is to keep track of the word list and iterate > through it to access each key of the array in the desired sequence. From merakosp at gmail.com Mon May 8 11:14:07 2017 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Mon, 8 May 2017 16:14:07 +0100 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 81 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Richard, You are correct. I should probably move this to the new section "Other LiveCode News" Thanks for spotting it. Best regards, Panos -- On Mon, May 8, 2017 at 3:46 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > panagiotis merakos wrote: > > Read about new developments in LiveCode open source and the open > > source community in today's edition of the "This Week in LiveCode" > > newsletter! > > > > Read issue #81 here: https://goo.gl/oWGt3h > > Thanks for the update, Panos. > > That page includes: > > Updates in the LiveCode open source project > > Notable changes > New tsNet version: Expected in LiveCode 8.1.4 RC2 > > > I had thought tsNet was not included in the open source edition, no? > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Mon May 8 11:18:39 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Mon, 8 May 2017 15:18:39 +0000 Subject: looking for a smart approach to "sort" an array In-Reply-To: <2AB59207-64C7-43DD-BA03-C2BFC5C4A218@netrin.com> References: <2AB59207-64C7-43DD-BA03-C2BFC5C4A218@netrin.com> Message-ID: <7457201E-5758-4B2B-BD1E-DC7C9F697FFA@iotecdigital.com> Note also that datagrids will only display the data for columns that have been defined in the datagrid properties. You can have all sorts of data in the dgData of the datagrid that is invisible to the user. I do this all the time, storing whole database records, but displaying only the information I want the user to see. The drag/drop rearranging is a bit trickier, but there are lessons on how to do this as well. If you need to store the data as an array, simply get the dgData of the data grid. Bob S > On May 6, 2017, at 10:10 , Jim Lambert via use-livecode wrote: > > Tiemo, > >> I have a list field of words and a correspondent array with the words of the >> field as the keys plus some data per key. I can store the array in a file, >> read it later from file and rebuild the list of words from the keys of the >> array. Up to now, I had this list of words alphabetically sorted. So it was >> easy, when reloading the array to sort the list always alphabetically to >> refresh the visible list in the field. >> >> The user can also create a custom sequence of the words in the field by drag >> and drop the lines in individual order. Now I am looking for a smart >> approach to keep the same sort order in the correspondent array. I need the >> custom sort order of the words in case I reload the array later from file to >> get the same sequence of words as the user has sorted them, after extracting >> the words from the array. > > As much as I like arrays, in this case you might consider an ?old school? approach. > This approach will only work if the stack is writable and that 'plus some data per key? is just text. > And the approach is - keep everything in the scrolling list field - including the OtherData. No arrays, no writing files. > > Set the tabstops to a number greater than the width of the field. > Set the itemdelimter to tab. > Then put the OtherData of each line into the second item of each line. > > As long as there?s no horizontal scrollbar on the field the user will never see the OtherData. > Getting item 2 of the hilitedline will always give you the corresponding OtherData for the word the user has selected. > > Your drag and drop routines should still work. Just remember to save the stack each time the user rearranges the line order. > > Jim Lambert From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Mon May 8 11:21:27 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Mon, 8 May 2017 15:21:27 +0000 Subject: User friendly functions to replace MySQL queries? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: sqlYoga is awesome. The learning curve is a bit steep at first, but once you get it, it's great. I wrote functions and a database setup interface that makes it all fairly transparent to use. I can share if you like. Bob S > On May 7, 2017, at 13:55 , Kaveh Bazargan via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi all > > Writing MySQL queries using LiveCode is a bit painful, so I thought of > writing some higher level functions to produce the queries, a bit like > these from Ken Ray: > > http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/livecode/tips/data005.htm > > But before I start I wonder if anyone else has done these. > > I know Andr? Garcia wrote a big package, but his site seems down: > > http://www.andregarzia.com/page/revspark > > Any pointers please? > > -- > Kaveh Bazargan > Director > River Valley Technologies > @kaveh1000 > +44 7771 824 111 > www.rivervalleytechnologies.com > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Mon May 8 11:32:48 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Mon, 8 May 2017 15:32:48 +0000 Subject: Shell argv In-Reply-To: <115B5903-A0BB-4095-8E7C-0B140D37AE89@pacifier.com> References: <115B5903-A0BB-4095-8E7C-0B140D37AE89@pacifier.com> Message-ID: <113371D0-90BC-4EDD-9471-2753E4ABF28B@iotecdigital.com> try man open in the terminal. That should tell you what the arguments to the open command are. Bob S > On May 6, 2017, at 18:46 , JB via use-livecode wrote: > > To use a shell command it needs to work from > the terminal. I am using OS X 10.11.6 and if > I try to open a Xcode c build named my_file I > type in the terminal, > > open my_file > > and the file my_file will open. > > I want to pass arguments to argv but the never > get passed. I have tried the following; > > open my_file ?args arg1 > > The argument never gets passed. Does anyone > know how to pass arguments to argv from the > terminal when open a file so I can use the script > from a shell command? > > JB > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From sundown at pacifier.com Mon May 8 12:21:29 2017 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Mon, 8 May 2017 09:21:29 -0700 Subject: Shell argv In-Reply-To: <113371D0-90BC-4EDD-9471-2753E4ABF28B@iotecdigital.com> References: <115B5903-A0BB-4095-8E7C-0B140D37AE89@pacifier.com> <113371D0-90BC-4EDD-9471-2753E4ABF28B@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: Thanks Bob. I did that before I sent the message and searched a lot on the web. It looks to me like I am entering everything properly. I will not that the file takes a full path and I did not show a full path but I always used a full path. Maybe I will try compiling with gcc sometime to see if that works. JB > On May 8, 2017, at 8:32 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > > try man open in the terminal. That should tell you what the arguments to the open command are. > > Bob S > > >> On May 6, 2017, at 18:46 , JB via use-livecode wrote: >> >> To use a shell command it needs to work from >> the terminal. I am using OS X 10.11.6 and if >> I try to open a Xcode c build named my_file I >> type in the terminal, >> >> open my_file >> >> and the file my_file will open. >> >> I want to pass arguments to argv but the never >> get passed. I have tried the following; >> >> open my_file ?args arg1 >> >> The argument never gets passed. Does anyone >> know how to pass arguments to argv from the >> terminal when open a file so I can use the script >> from a shell command? >> >> JB >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From kaveh at rivervalleytechnologies.com Mon May 8 12:30:45 2017 From: kaveh at rivervalleytechnologies.com (Kaveh Bazargan) Date: Mon, 8 May 2017 17:30:45 +0100 Subject: User friendly functions to replace MySQL queries? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sounds great. Yes please Bob... On 8 May 2017 at 16:21, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > sqlYoga is awesome. The learning curve is a bit steep at first, but once > you get it, it's great. I wrote functions and a database setup interface > that makes it all fairly transparent to use. I can share if you like. > > Bob S > > > > On May 7, 2017, at 13:55 , Kaveh Bazargan via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > Hi all > > > > Writing MySQL queries using LiveCode is a bit painful, so I thought of > > writing some higher level functions to produce the queries, a bit like > > these from Ken Ray: > > > > http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/livecode/tips/data005.htm > > > > But before I start I wonder if anyone else has done these. > > > > I know Andr? Garcia wrote a big package, but his site seems down: > > > > http://www.andregarzia.com/page/revspark > > > > Any pointers please? > > > > -- > > Kaveh Bazargan > > Director > > River Valley Technologies > > @kaveh1000 > > +44 7771 824 111 > > www.rivervalleytechnologies.com > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Kaveh Bazargan Director River Valley Technologies @kaveh1000 +44 7771 824 111 www.rivervalleytechnologies.com From mark at livecode.com Mon May 8 12:56:26 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Mon, 08 May 2017 18:56:26 +0200 Subject: Shell argv In-Reply-To: <115B5903-A0BB-4095-8E7C-0B140D37AE89@pacifier.com> References: <115B5903-A0BB-4095-8E7C-0B140D37AE89@pacifier.com> Message-ID: <12cf7fd915724f8de8e8b6b90aa6a7fc@livecode.com> On 2017-05-07 03:46, JB via use-livecode wrote: > To use a shell command it needs to work from > the terminal. I am using OS X 10.11.6 and if > I try to open a Xcode c build named my_file I > type in the terminal, > > open my_file > > and the file my_file will open. What is 'my_file'? The terminal command 'open' looks at the filename, works out what app it should be opened by and then launches the file in that app. For example: open foo.c Will open 'foo.c' (as a editable text file) in Xcode on my machine. The '--args' portion of the open command allows you to pass extra arguments to the application which is chosen to open the file. > The argument never gets passed. Does anyone > know how to pass arguments to argv from the > terminal when open a file so I can use the script > from a shell command? What exactly are you trying to do? Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From sundown at pacifier.com Mon May 8 13:36:32 2017 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Mon, 8 May 2017 10:36:32 -0700 Subject: Shell argv In-Reply-To: <12cf7fd915724f8de8e8b6b90aa6a7fc@livecode.com> References: <115B5903-A0BB-4095-8E7C-0B140D37AE89@pacifier.com> <12cf7fd915724f8de8e8b6b90aa6a7fc@livecode.com> Message-ID: <1B1C9593-498B-4F5D-A553-10709C730CD1@pacifier.com> Hi Mark, Thanks for the reply and info. The file is actually named Hello and it is a c program compiled with xcode. It takes the argc value and if it is less than 2 returns a message a parameter was not added. If it is 2 then it prints the value of argv[1] which would be the first argument passed by the info I give when opening the file. After that no matter what value argc is it prints the value of argv[0] and that is always the name and path of the file. The file executes properly and the message is printed showing I did not enter any arguments even though I did try to and then it prints the file name and path like I told it to from argv[0]. JB From sundown at pacifier.com Mon May 8 13:47:10 2017 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Mon, 8 May 2017 10:47:10 -0700 Subject: Shell argv In-Reply-To: <12cf7fd915724f8de8e8b6b90aa6a7fc@livecode.com> References: <115B5903-A0BB-4095-8E7C-0B140D37AE89@pacifier.com> <12cf7fd915724f8de8e8b6b90aa6a7fc@livecode.com> Message-ID: <65584E1A-EDFE-42ED-90BE-EEF75B0266B0@pacifier.com> Here is the code; #include int main (int argc, char *argv[]) { if (argc < 2) printf ("You didn't enter any arguments.\n"); else printf ("Your argument at position 1 is: %s\n", argv[1]); printf ("\nYour file path is:\n%s\n\n", argv[0]); return 0; } JB From ahsoftware at sonic.net Mon May 8 13:57:12 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Mon, 8 May 2017 10:57:12 -0700 Subject: Shell argv In-Reply-To: <1B1C9593-498B-4F5D-A553-10709C730CD1@pacifier.com> References: <115B5903-A0BB-4095-8E7C-0B140D37AE89@pacifier.com> <12cf7fd915724f8de8e8b6b90aa6a7fc@livecode.com> <1B1C9593-498B-4F5D-A553-10709C730CD1@pacifier.com> Message-ID: <4eb3b4f7-e5cd-5410-8e36-6b7ba346ded2@sonic.net> On 05/08/2017 10:36 AM, JB via use-livecode wrote: > The file executes properly and the message is printed > showing I did not enter any arguments even though I > did try to and then it prints the file name and path like > I told it to from argv[0]. > > JB In your original post you said "-args". The correct syntax is "--args" (with two dashes rather than one), so if that's not a typo in your original email, try correcting that and see what happens. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From sundown at pacifier.com Mon May 8 14:05:26 2017 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Mon, 8 May 2017 11:05:26 -0700 Subject: Shell argv In-Reply-To: <4eb3b4f7-e5cd-5410-8e36-6b7ba346ded2@sonic.net> References: <115B5903-A0BB-4095-8E7C-0B140D37AE89@pacifier.com> <12cf7fd915724f8de8e8b6b90aa6a7fc@livecode.com> <1B1C9593-498B-4F5D-A553-10709C730CD1@pacifier.com> <4eb3b4f7-e5cd-5410-8e36-6b7ba346ded2@sonic.net> Message-ID: That is a typo. In fact I tried every way and every place within the open script and if it is written different the code is not executed and I get and error. JB > On May 8, 2017, at 10:57 AM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > > On 05/08/2017 10:36 AM, JB via use-livecode wrote: > >> The file executes properly and the message is printed >> showing I did not enter any arguments even though I >> did try to and then it prints the file name and path like >> I told it to from argv[0]. >> >> JB > > In your original post you said "-args". The correct syntax is "--args" (with two dashes rather than one), so if that's not a typo in your original email, try correcting that and see what happens. > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From bonnmike at gmail.com Mon May 8 14:45:05 2017 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Mon, 8 May 2017 12:45:05 -0600 Subject: Shell argv In-Reply-To: References: <115B5903-A0BB-4095-8E7C-0B140D37AE89@pacifier.com> <12cf7fd915724f8de8e8b6b90aa6a7fc@livecode.com> <1B1C9593-498B-4F5D-A553-10709C730CD1@pacifier.com> <4eb3b4f7-e5cd-5410-8e36-6b7ba346ded2@sonic.net> Message-ID: Seems to me, if its the compiled version, you shouldn't need to use "open" at all. a simple get shell("path/to/executable argument1 argument2") If I understand what I read about "open" enough, it expects a file, that will be opened in another app, like in Marks example. (whatever.c opens xcode) If you want to experiment with open, you could try the following.. open -a /path/to/your/app /path/to/a/dummy/file/to/open --args arg1 arg2 I'm guessing that if you can format this right, it'll report the name of the dummy file, and arg1 and arg2 as you expect. But since you just want to pass arguments to your compiled program, I am pretty sure you just need to use shell() and call it directly with the arguments as part of the call. On Mon, May 8, 2017 at 12:05 PM, JB via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > That is a typo. > > In fact I tried every way and every > place within the open script and if > it is written different the code is not > executed and I get and error. > > JB > > > > On May 8, 2017, at 10:57 AM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > On 05/08/2017 10:36 AM, JB via use-livecode wrote: > > > >> The file executes properly and the message is printed > >> showing I did not enter any arguments even though I > >> did try to and then it prints the file name and path like > >> I told it to from argv[0]. > >> > >> JB > > > > In your original post you said "-args". The correct syntax is "--args" > (with two dashes rather than one), so if that's not a typo in your original > email, try correcting that and see what happens. > > > > -- > > Mark Wieder > > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From sundown at pacifier.com Mon May 8 14:54:09 2017 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Mon, 8 May 2017 11:54:09 -0700 Subject: Shell argv In-Reply-To: References: <115B5903-A0BB-4095-8E7C-0B140D37AE89@pacifier.com> <12cf7fd915724f8de8e8b6b90aa6a7fc@livecode.com> <1B1C9593-498B-4F5D-A553-10709C730CD1@pacifier.com> <4eb3b4f7-e5cd-5410-8e36-6b7ba346ded2@sonic.net> Message-ID: Hi Mike, Thank you for the info. The dictionary for Shell states it needs to work from the Terminal to work correctly with Shell so I have been doing everything from the Terminal at this point. I was trying to figure out how to write it properly in the Terminal so I could use similar code with the Shell. JB > On May 8, 2017, at 11:45 AM, Mike Bonner via use-livecode wrote: > > Seems to me, if its the compiled version, you shouldn't need to use "open" > at all. > > a simple > get shell("path/to/executable argument1 argument2") > If I understand what I read about "open" enough, it expects a file, that > will be opened in another app, like in Marks example. (whatever.c opens > xcode) > > If you want to experiment with open, you could try the following.. > > open -a /path/to/your/app /path/to/a/dummy/file/to/open --args arg1 arg2 > > I'm guessing that if you can format this right, it'll report the name of > the dummy file, and arg1 and arg2 as you expect. > > But since you just want to pass arguments to your compiled program, I am > pretty sure you just need to use shell() and call it directly with the > arguments as part of the call. > > > On Mon, May 8, 2017 at 12:05 PM, JB via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> That is a typo. >> >> In fact I tried every way and every >> place within the open script and if >> it is written different the code is not >> executed and I get and error. >> >> JB >> >> >>> On May 8, 2017, at 10:57 AM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> >>> On 05/08/2017 10:36 AM, JB via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>>> The file executes properly and the message is printed >>>> showing I did not enter any arguments even though I >>>> did try to and then it prints the file name and path like >>>> I told it to from argv[0]. >>>> >>>> JB >>> >>> In your original post you said "-args". The correct syntax is "--args" >> (with two dashes rather than one), so if that's not a typo in your original >> email, try correcting that and see what happens. >>> >>> -- >>> Mark Wieder >>> ahsoftware at gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From paul at researchware.com Mon May 8 15:00:50 2017 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Mon, 8 May 2017 15:00:50 -0400 Subject: Problem placing an image on the clipboard... Message-ID: <238ee386-38d6-8bc4-20a3-01d7355f58bf@researchware.com> Using LC 6.7.11 (yes, I know, an old version!) I have image data in the variable tImageData and the image's width and height in tSize and I want to copy the image to the clipboard. The following code works perfectly EVERY time in the IDE create inv image "pdfCopyTemp" set the width of image "pdfCopyTemp" to item 1 of tSize set the height of image "pdfCopyTemp" to item 2 of tSize set the imageData of image "pdfCopyTemp" to tImageData set the clipboardData["image"] to the text of image "pdfCopyTemp" wait 10 milliseconds with messages delete image "pdfCopyTemp" However, when I build a standalone, it fails. Adding the line "answer (the clipboardData["image"]) right after I SET the clipboardData["image"] show me a PNG header in the IDE and just binary data in the standalone, no image type header. It like one built into a Standalone, the set the clipboardData["image"] to the text of image "pdfCopyTemp" no longer works correctly!?! I am sure this is probably a known bug of LC 6.7.11 that is fixed in a later release, but is anyone familiar with this bug? Anyone know a work-around? From mark at livecode.com Mon May 8 15:46:04 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Mon, 8 May 2017 20:46:04 +0100 Subject: Problem placing an image on the clipboard... In-Reply-To: <238ee386-38d6-8bc4-20a3-01d7355f58bf@researchware.com> References: <238ee386-38d6-8bc4-20a3-01d7355f58bf@researchware.com> Message-ID: <7428E50D-EDF8-40B2-ADFE-C78555E02387@livecode.com> The paintcompression global property is rle by default (at least in 6.7.x) - in the ide it gets set to png. So try setting it to png on startup of your standalone. Warmest regards, Mark Sent from my iPhone > On 8 May 2017, at 20:00, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > > Using LC 6.7.11 (yes, I know, an old version!) > > I have image data in the variable tImageData and the image's width and > height in tSize and I want to copy the image to the clipboard. The > following code works perfectly EVERY time in the IDE > > create inv image "pdfCopyTemp" > set the width of image "pdfCopyTemp" to item 1 of tSize > set the height of image "pdfCopyTemp" to item 2 of tSize > set the imageData of image "pdfCopyTemp" to tImageData > set the clipboardData["image"] to the text of image "pdfCopyTemp" > wait 10 milliseconds with messages > delete image "pdfCopyTemp" > > However, when I build a standalone, it fails. Adding the line "answer > (the clipboardData["image"]) right after I SET the > clipboardData["image"] show me a PNG header in the IDE and just binary > data in the standalone, no image type header. It like one built into a > Standalone, the set the clipboardData["image"] to the text of image > "pdfCopyTemp" no longer works correctly!?! > > I am sure this is probably a known bug of LC 6.7.11 that is fixed in a > later release, but is anyone familiar with this bug? Anyone know a > work-around? > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at researchware.com Mon May 8 16:31:42 2017 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Mon, 8 May 2017 16:31:42 -0400 Subject: Problem placing an image on the clipboard... In-Reply-To: <7428E50D-EDF8-40B2-ADFE-C78555E02387@livecode.com> References: <238ee386-38d6-8bc4-20a3-01d7355f58bf@researchware.com> <7428E50D-EDF8-40B2-ADFE-C78555E02387@livecode.com> Message-ID: <67782237-1459-b97e-f1a8-dfc2639c30fa@researchware.com> Thank you Mark! On 5/8/2017 3:46 PM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: > The paintcompression global property is rle by default (at least in 6.7.x) - in the ide it gets set to png. > > So try setting it to png on startup of your standalone. > > Warmest regards, > > Mark > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On 8 May 2017, at 20:00, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Using LC 6.7.11 (yes, I know, an old version!) >> >> I have image data in the variable tImageData and the image's width and >> height in tSize and I want to copy the image to the clipboard. The >> following code works perfectly EVERY time in the IDE >> >> create inv image "pdfCopyTemp" >> set the width of image "pdfCopyTemp" to item 1 of tSize >> set the height of image "pdfCopyTemp" to item 2 of tSize >> set the imageData of image "pdfCopyTemp" to tImageData >> set the clipboardData["image"] to the text of image "pdfCopyTemp" >> wait 10 milliseconds with messages >> delete image "pdfCopyTemp" >> >> However, when I build a standalone, it fails. Adding the line "answer >> (the clipboardData["image"]) right after I SET the >> clipboardData["image"] show me a PNG header in the IDE and just binary >> data in the standalone, no image type header. It like one built into a >> Standalone, the set the clipboardData["image"] to the text of image >> "pdfCopyTemp" no longer works correctly!?! >> >> I am sure this is probably a known bug of LC 6.7.11 that is fixed in a >> later release, but is anyone familiar with this bug? Anyone know a >> work-around? >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From bonnmike at gmail.com Mon May 8 16:32:31 2017 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Mon, 8 May 2017 14:32:31 -0600 Subject: Shell argv In-Reply-To: References: <115B5903-A0BB-4095-8E7C-0B140D37AE89@pacifier.com> <12cf7fd915724f8de8e8b6b90aa6a7fc@livecode.com> <1B1C9593-498B-4F5D-A553-10709C730CD1@pacifier.com> <4eb3b4f7-e5cd-5410-8e36-6b7ba346ded2@sonic.net> Message-ID: If you are in terminal, and in the folder where your executable is, and you type ./yourexecutablename arg1 arg2 does it do what you expect? (note the preceding dot . which means to start at the working directory) If the file is set to executable by you, it should work. If you type the command without the preceding dot slash ./ and if its not in the path, it won't work, so you DO need to be explicit as to where it is. (hence the ./ it defines exactly where to find the file so being in the set PATH isn't necessary) If it DOES work that way from the command line, then in your script you can a) set the folder to the location of the file, and then b) do a shell("./theExe arg1 arg2") and it should work. Or for a) you can give a full path specification to the location of the file. On Mon, May 8, 2017 at 12:54 PM, JB via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hi Mike, > > Thank you for the info. > > The dictionary for Shell states it needs to work > from the Terminal to work correctly with Shell so > I have been doing everything from the Terminal at > this point. I was trying to figure out how to write > it properly in the Terminal so I could use similar > code with the Shell. > > JB > > > > On May 8, 2017, at 11:45 AM, Mike Bonner via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > Seems to me, if its the compiled version, you shouldn't need to use > "open" > > at all. > > > > a simple > > get shell("path/to/executable argument1 argument2") > > If I understand what I read about "open" enough, it expects a file, that > > will be opened in another app, like in Marks example. (whatever.c opens > > xcode) > > > > If you want to experiment with open, you could try the following.. > > > > open -a /path/to/your/app /path/to/a/dummy/file/to/open --args arg1 arg2 > > > > I'm guessing that if you can format this right, it'll report the name of > > the dummy file, and arg1 and arg2 as you expect. > > > > But since you just want to pass arguments to your compiled program, I am > > pretty sure you just need to use shell() and call it directly with the > > arguments as part of the call. > > > > > > On Mon, May 8, 2017 at 12:05 PM, JB via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > >> That is a typo. > >> > >> In fact I tried every way and every > >> place within the open script and if > >> it is written different the code is not > >> executed and I get and error. > >> > >> JB > >> > >> > >>> On May 8, 2017, at 10:57 AM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode < > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >>> > >>> On 05/08/2017 10:36 AM, JB via use-livecode wrote: > >>> > >>>> The file executes properly and the message is printed > >>>> showing I did not enter any arguments even though I > >>>> did try to and then it prints the file name and path like > >>>> I told it to from argv[0]. > >>>> > >>>> JB > >>> > >>> In your original post you said "-args". The correct syntax is "--args" > >> (with two dashes rather than one), so if that's not a typo in your > original > >> email, try correcting that and see what happens. > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Mark Wieder > >>> ahsoftware at gmail.com > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> use-livecode mailing list > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >>> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From sundown at pacifier.com Mon May 8 16:45:20 2017 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Mon, 8 May 2017 13:45:20 -0700 Subject: Shell argv In-Reply-To: References: <115B5903-A0BB-4095-8E7C-0B140D37AE89@pacifier.com> <12cf7fd915724f8de8e8b6b90aa6a7fc@livecode.com> <1B1C9593-498B-4F5D-A553-10709C730CD1@pacifier.com> <4eb3b4f7-e5cd-5410-8e36-6b7ba346ded2@sonic.net> Message-ID: <111DD255-3105-4A45-B2DF-AAD15D946A0C@pacifier.com> I got it working with Glen?s code but I needed to compile my code from the terminal with gcc instead of compiling it in Xcode. I really appreciate your help and every- ones help who replied. It is all useful information. Thank you! JB > On May 8, 2017, at 1:32 PM, Mike Bonner via use-livecode wrote: > > If you are in terminal, and in the folder where your executable is, and you > type > > /yourexecutablename arg1 arg2 > does it do what you expect? (note the preceding dot . which means to start > at the working directory) > > If the file is set to executable by you, it should work. If you type the > command without the preceding dot slash ./ and if its not in the path, it > won't work, so you DO need to be explicit as to where it is. (hence the ./ > it defines exactly where to find the file so being in the set PATH isn't > necessary) > > If it DOES work that way from the command line, then in your script you can > a) set the folder to the location of the file, and then b) do a > shell("./theExe arg1 arg2") and it should work. Or for a) you can give a > full path specification to the location of the file. > > On Mon, May 8, 2017 at 12:54 PM, JB via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> Hi Mike, >> >> Thank you for the info. >> >> The dictionary for Shell states it needs to work >> from the Terminal to work correctly with Shell so >> I have been doing everything from the Terminal at >> this point. I was trying to figure out how to write >> it properly in the Terminal so I could use similar >> code with the Shell. >> >> JB >> >> >>> On May 8, 2017, at 11:45 AM, Mike Bonner via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> >>> Seems to me, if its the compiled version, you shouldn't need to use >> "open" >>> at all. >>> >>> a simple >>> get shell("path/to/executable argument1 argument2") >>> If I understand what I read about "open" enough, it expects a file, that >>> will be opened in another app, like in Marks example. (whatever.c opens >>> xcode) >>> >>> If you want to experiment with open, you could try the following.. >>> >>> open -a /path/to/your/app /path/to/a/dummy/file/to/open --args arg1 arg2 >>> >>> I'm guessing that if you can format this right, it'll report the name of >>> the dummy file, and arg1 and arg2 as you expect. >>> >>> But since you just want to pass arguments to your compiled program, I am >>> pretty sure you just need to use shell() and call it directly with the >>> arguments as part of the call. >>> >>> >>> On Mon, May 8, 2017 at 12:05 PM, JB via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> >>>> That is a typo. >>>> >>>> In fact I tried every way and every >>>> place within the open script and if >>>> it is written different the code is not >>>> executed and I get and error. >>>> >>>> JB >>>> >>>> >>>>> On May 8, 2017, at 10:57 AM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode < >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> On 05/08/2017 10:36 AM, JB via use-livecode wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> The file executes properly and the message is printed >>>>>> showing I did not enter any arguments even though I >>>>>> did try to and then it prints the file name and path like >>>>>> I told it to from argv[0]. >>>>>> >>>>>> JB >>>>> >>>>> In your original post you said "-args". The correct syntax is "--args" >>>> (with two dashes rather than one), so if that's not a typo in your >> original >>>> email, try correcting that and see what happens. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Mark Wieder >>>>> ahsoftware at gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon May 8 16:49:53 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 8 May 2017 15:49:53 -0500 Subject: Unable to set breakpoint Message-ID: <2707bef7-b899-d889-a330-15be0c3a4af2@hyperactivesw.com> Suddenly I have lost the ability to set breakpoints. Red-dot breakpoints are dimmed as though the script has not been compiled (it has, several times.) Hard-coded "breakpoint" commands to not trigger either. I am not able to debug. Things were going along well until I allowed remote debugging. That worked for a while, then I got several crashes in a row, and now I can't set breakpoints. I have retarted LC several times, reloaded the stack, etc. LC 9 dp 6. I need a quick solution. Real quick. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From merakosp at gmail.com Mon May 8 16:55:48 2017 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Mon, 8 May 2017 21:55:48 +0100 Subject: Unable to set breakpoint In-Reply-To: <2707bef7-b899-d889-a330-15be0c3a4af2@hyperactivesw.com> References: <2707bef7-b899-d889-a330-15be0c3a4af2@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Have you tried deleting your Prefs? On Mon, May 8, 2017 at 9:49 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Suddenly I have lost the ability to set breakpoints. Red-dot breakpoints > are dimmed as though the script has not been compiled (it has, several > times.) Hard-coded "breakpoint" commands to not trigger either. I am not > able to debug. > > Things were going along well until I allowed remote debugging. That worked > for a while, then I got several crashes in a row, and now I can't set > breakpoints. > > I have retarted LC several times, reloaded the stack, etc. LC 9 dp 6. > > I need a quick solution. Real quick. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon May 8 17:03:17 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 8 May 2017 16:03:17 -0500 Subject: Unable to set breakpoint In-Reply-To: References: <2707bef7-b899-d889-a330-15be0c3a4af2@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <08cdd0fa-d2b5-9135-85d2-4e5f99eeeda9@hyperactivesw.com> Thanks, I hadn't thought of that. I tried. LC now freezes with the logo window displayed and a small blank stack at the top left of the monitor (looks like a livecodescript trying to open.) So, can't launch now. On 5/8/17 3:55 PM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode wrote: > Have you tried deleting your Prefs? > > On Mon, May 8, 2017 at 9:49 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> Suddenly I have lost the ability to set breakpoints. Red-dot breakpoints >> are dimmed as though the script has not been compiled (it has, several >> times.) Hard-coded "breakpoint" commands to not trigger either. I am not >> able to debug. >> >> Things were going along well until I allowed remote debugging. That worked >> for a while, then I got several crashes in a row, and now I can't set >> breakpoints. >> >> I have retarted LC several times, reloaded the stack, etc. LC 9 dp 6. >> >> I need a quick solution. Real quick. >> >> -- >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon May 8 17:07:20 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 8 May 2017 16:07:20 -0500 Subject: Unable to set breakpoint In-Reply-To: <08cdd0fa-d2b5-9135-85d2-4e5f99eeeda9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <2707bef7-b899-d889-a330-15be0c3a4af2@hyperactivesw.com> <08cdd0fa-d2b5-9135-85d2-4e5f99eeeda9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <46d59a59-b774-8aca-53b7-41e25956b15c@hyperactivesw.com> Restarted again and LC proceeded to the welcome screen. I clicked "open existing project" and my stack loaded. There are no menus, no tool palette, basically the IDE didn't load. On 5/8/17 4:03 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > Thanks, I hadn't thought of that. I tried. LC now freezes with the logo > window displayed and a small blank stack at the top left of the monitor > (looks like a livecodescript trying to open.) So, can't launch now. > > > On 5/8/17 3:55 PM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode wrote: >> Have you tried deleting your Prefs? >> >> On Mon, May 8, 2017 at 9:49 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >>> Suddenly I have lost the ability to set breakpoints. Red-dot breakpoints >>> are dimmed as though the script has not been compiled (it has, several >>> times.) Hard-coded "breakpoint" commands to not trigger either. I am not >>> able to debug. >>> >>> Things were going along well until I allowed remote debugging. That >>> worked >>> for a while, then I got several crashes in a row, and now I can't set >>> breakpoints. >>> >>> I have retarted LC several times, reloaded the stack, etc. LC 9 dp 6. >>> >>> I need a quick solution. Real quick. >>> >>> -- >>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From sundown at pacifier.com Mon May 8 17:11:07 2017 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Mon, 8 May 2017 14:11:07 -0700 Subject: interface guide for C Message-ID: Does anyone have a copy of the interface guide for C that was made years ago for metacard or any other info that allows you to access c in any way at all? thanks, JB From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon May 8 17:13:22 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 8 May 2017 16:13:22 -0500 Subject: Unable to set breakpoint In-Reply-To: References: <2707bef7-b899-d889-a330-15be0c3a4af2@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <99363ab2-287c-21b1-45ce-1f4f90de1d01@hyperactivesw.com> Panos, I need to get this running. I've tried launching dp5 with the same results. If I restore my old prefs, I can't set breakpoints but I do get the IDE to load. If I let LC make new prefs, I get no IDE at all and my only option is to quit. On 5/8/17 3:55 PM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode wrote: > Have you tried deleting your Prefs? > > On Mon, May 8, 2017 at 9:49 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> Suddenly I have lost the ability to set breakpoints. Red-dot breakpoints >> are dimmed as though the script has not been compiled (it has, several >> times.) Hard-coded "breakpoint" commands to not trigger either. I am not >> able to debug. >> >> Things were going along well until I allowed remote debugging. That worked >> for a while, then I got several crashes in a row, and now I can't set >> breakpoints. >> >> I have retarted LC several times, reloaded the stack, etc. LC 9 dp 6. >> >> I need a quick solution. Real quick. >> >> -- >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon May 8 17:16:40 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 8 May 2017 16:16:40 -0500 Subject: Unable to set breakpoint In-Reply-To: <99363ab2-287c-21b1-45ce-1f4f90de1d01@hyperactivesw.com> References: <2707bef7-b899-d889-a330-15be0c3a4af2@hyperactivesw.com> <99363ab2-287c-21b1-45ce-1f4f90de1d01@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <139db1e0-e8e0-633d-6e3a-41a3355a608c@hyperactivesw.com> Okay, restoring prefs from yesterday worked. Major panic averted. But there is something very wrong with a clean startup. On 5/8/17 4:13 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > Panos, I need to get this running. I've tried launching dp5 with the > same results. If I restore my old prefs, I can't set breakpoints but I > do get the IDE to load. If I let LC make new prefs, I get no IDE at all > and my only option is to quit. > > On 5/8/17 3:55 PM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode wrote: >> Have you tried deleting your Prefs? >> >> On Mon, May 8, 2017 at 9:49 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >>> Suddenly I have lost the ability to set breakpoints. Red-dot breakpoints >>> are dimmed as though the script has not been compiled (it has, several >>> times.) Hard-coded "breakpoint" commands to not trigger either. I am not >>> able to debug. >>> >>> Things were going along well until I allowed remote debugging. That >>> worked >>> for a while, then I got several crashes in a row, and now I can't set >>> breakpoints. >>> >>> I have retarted LC several times, reloaded the stack, etc. LC 9 dp 6. >>> >>> I need a quick solution. Real quick. >>> >>> -- >>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Mon May 8 18:33:47 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Mon, 8 May 2017 22:33:47 +0000 Subject: Database Setup Message-ID: Sooo... having shared my Database Setup card with another user, which is an sqlYoga wrapper if you will for connecting to mySQL and sqLite databases, I'm thinking about posting this in some fashion so that others can have a look, refine it, skin it etc. Is there such a thing for end user stuff on GitHub, or do I need to create my own git repository? Bob S From harrison at all-auctions.com Mon May 8 19:16:21 2017 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison) Date: Mon, 8 May 2017 19:16:21 -0400 Subject: Rename File on Server not working? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <19D2AB66-415F-4CF4-8C01-129ABB98FB6F@all-auctions.com> Hi there, I was trying to use rename file on the Server in a .lc script to rename a file. It doesn?t seem to work at all. Can someone please let me know if it works on an LC Server? Thanks, Rick From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon May 8 19:29:53 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 8 May 2017 16:29:53 -0700 Subject: Rename File on Server not working? In-Reply-To: <19D2AB66-415F-4CF4-8C01-129ABB98FB6F@all-auctions.com> References: <19D2AB66-415F-4CF4-8C01-129ABB98FB6F@all-auctions.com> Message-ID: Rick Harrison wrote: > I was trying to use rename file > on the Server in a .lc script > to rename a file. It doesn?t > seem to work at all. Can > someone please let me know > if it works on an LC Server? It should. Try checking the result immediately after, and if not empty call sysError() for the OS error number, e.g.: move file tSrcPath to tDestPath if the result is not empty then put the result && "(" & sysError() &")" end if -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From harrison at all-auctions.com Mon May 8 20:22:44 2017 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison) Date: Mon, 8 May 2017 20:22:44 -0400 Subject: Rename File on Server not working? In-Reply-To: References: <19D2AB66-415F-4CF4-8C01-129ABB98FB6F@all-auctions.com> Message-ID: <2DD3982D-DAA4-416A-B6EF-0617D5865501@all-auctions.com> Hi Richard, The result says: can't rename file (20) I see that you are using a ?move file? in your example. The dictionary doesn?t show an example for moving a file. I tried the following example to see what would happen: move file OldImagePathAndFileName to tFileName if the result is not empty then put the result && "(" & sysError() &")" end if I?m getting: move: missing ?to' This seems rather bizarre to me. Your thoughts? Rick > On May 8, 2017, at 7:29 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > Rick Harrison wrote: >> I was trying to use rename file >> on the Server in a .lc script >> to rename a file. It doesn?t >> seem to work at all. Can >> someone please let me know >> if it works on an LC Server? > > It should. Try checking the result immediately after, and if not empty call sysError() for the OS error number, e.g.: > > move file tSrcPath to tDestPath > if the result is not empty then > put the result && "(" & sysError() &")" > end if > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon May 8 20:37:08 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 8 May 2017 17:37:08 -0700 Subject: Rename File on Server not working? In-Reply-To: <2DD3982D-DAA4-416A-B6EF-0617D5865501@all-auctions.com> References: <2DD3982D-DAA4-416A-B6EF-0617D5865501@all-auctions.com> Message-ID: <30b615e7-1ea5-8ef0-8490-2b6255564d22@fourthworld.com> Rick Harrison wrote: > Hi Richard, > > The result says: > > can't rename file (20) > > I see that you are using a ?move file? in your example. > The dictionary doesn?t show an example for moving a file. > > I tried the following example to see what would happen: > > move file OldImagePathAndFileName to tFileName > if the result is not empty then > put the result && "(" & sysError() &")" > end if > > I?m getting: move: missing ?to' > > This seems rather bizarre to me. > > Your thoughts? My bad: I was thinking of bash; in LC the "move" command is for moving controls but not file objects. To move files we use "rename". -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From merakosp at gmail.com Tue May 9 05:04:28 2017 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Tue, 9 May 2017 10:04:28 +0100 Subject: Unable to set breakpoint In-Reply-To: <139db1e0-e8e0-633d-6e3a-41a3355a608c@hyperactivesw.com> References: <2707bef7-b899-d889-a330-15be0c3a4af2@hyperactivesw.com> <99363ab2-287c-21b1-45ce-1f4f90de1d01@hyperactivesw.com> <139db1e0-e8e0-633d-6e3a-41a3355a608c@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Hi Jacque, I have never seen the Tools palette disappearing after deleting my Prefs. Could it be the case that it appeared, but offscreen? Have you connected a secondary monitor? Are you using any Plugins? Anyway, I am glad the problem is solved now. If you see that again could you please file a bug report? BTW, I remember in the past, all of a sudden I could not launch *any* version of LiveCode. I tried to delete my Prefs but this did not help. What fixed the problem was deleting the folder /Users/panos/Libarary/Saved Application State/com.runrev.livecode.savedState/ Best, Panos -- On Mon, May 8, 2017 at 10:16 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Okay, restoring prefs from yesterday worked. Major panic averted. > > But there is something very wrong with a clean startup. > > > On 5/8/17 4:13 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > >> Panos, I need to get this running. I've tried launching dp5 with the >> same results. If I restore my old prefs, I can't set breakpoints but I >> do get the IDE to load. If I let LC make new prefs, I get no IDE at all >> and my only option is to quit. >> >> On 5/8/17 3:55 PM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode wrote: >> >>> Have you tried deleting your Prefs? >>> >>> On Mon, May 8, 2017 at 9:49 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> >>> Suddenly I have lost the ability to set breakpoints. Red-dot breakpoints >>>> are dimmed as though the script has not been compiled (it has, several >>>> times.) Hard-coded "breakpoint" commands to not trigger either. I am not >>>> able to debug. >>>> >>>> Things were going along well until I allowed remote debugging. That >>>> worked >>>> for a while, then I got several crashes in a row, and now I can't set >>>> breakpoints. >>>> >>>> I have retarted LC several times, reloaded the stack, etc. LC 9 dp 6. >>>> >>>> I need a quick solution. Real quick. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >>>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> >> >> > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Tue May 9 09:25:59 2017 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Tue, 9 May 2017 09:25:59 -0400 Subject: Unable to set breakpoint In-Reply-To: <08cdd0fa-d2b5-9135-85d2-4e5f99eeeda9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <2707bef7-b899-d889-a330-15be0c3a4af2@hyperactivesw.com> <08cdd0fa-d2b5-9135-85d2-4e5f99eeeda9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <002b01d2c8c7$cc8549a0$658fdce0$@net> "LC now freezes with the logo window displayed and a small blank stack at the top left of the monitor" I reported this behavior in bug 19344 on Windows if you delete all your prefs. I found that if you stop the process and re-launch, LC will open. This happens every time I delete/rename all the pref files. Also after you delete/rename the v8 prefs if you still have v6/v7 prefs they are brought forward to v8. You can't save the location of the master IDE bar in v8. I found that if I set it in v6 and delete the v8 prefs the that position if brought forward to v8. Back to bug 19344... Panos thinks that it might be one of my plugins(I have many). I need to follow up on the QC report and see if it's one of my plugins. I've just been busy... I will try to get to it this week. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of J. Landman Gay via use-livecode Sent: Monday, May 08, 2017 5:03 PM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: J. Landman Gay Subject: Re: Unable to set breakpoint Thanks, I hadn't thought of that. I tried. LC now freezes with the logo window displayed and a small blank stack at the top left of the monitor (looks like a livecodescript trying to open.) So, can't launch now. On 5/8/17 3:55 PM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode wrote: > Have you tried deleting your Prefs? > > On Mon, May 8, 2017 at 9:49 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> Suddenly I have lost the ability to set breakpoints. Red-dot >> breakpoints are dimmed as though the script has not been compiled (it >> has, several >> times.) Hard-coded "breakpoint" commands to not trigger either. I am >> not able to debug. >> >> Things were going along well until I allowed remote debugging. That >> worked for a while, then I got several crashes in a row, and now I >> can't set breakpoints. >> >> I have retarted LC several times, reloaded the stack, etc. LC 9 dp 6. >> >> I need a quick solution. Real quick. >> >> -- >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From merakosp at gmail.com Tue May 9 09:33:40 2017 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Tue, 9 May 2017 14:33:40 +0100 Subject: Unable to set breakpoint In-Reply-To: <002b01d2c8c7$cc8549a0$658fdce0$@net> References: <2707bef7-b899-d889-a330-15be0c3a4af2@hyperactivesw.com> <08cdd0fa-d2b5-9135-85d2-4e5f99eeeda9@hyperactivesw.com> <002b01d2c8c7$cc8549a0$658fdce0$@net> Message-ID: Thanks for chiming in, Ralph. And I was just trying to remember where I had seen this "small blank stack at the top left" being mentioned! Best, Panos -- On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 2:25 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > "LC now freezes with the logo window displayed and a small blank stack at > the top left of the monitor" I reported this behavior in bug 19344 on > Windows if you delete all your prefs. I found that if you stop the process > and re-launch, LC will open. This happens every time I delete/rename all > the > pref files. Also after you delete/rename the v8 prefs if you still have > v6/v7 prefs they are brought forward to v8. You can't save the location of > the master IDE bar in v8. I found that if I set it in v6 and delete the v8 > prefs the that position if brought forward to v8. > > Back to bug 19344... Panos thinks that it might be one of my plugins(I have > many). I need to follow up on the QC report and see if it's one of my > plugins. I've just been busy... I will try to get to it this week. > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On > Behalf > Of J. Landman Gay via use-livecode > Sent: Monday, May 08, 2017 5:03 PM > To: How to use LiveCode > Cc: J. Landman Gay > Subject: Re: Unable to set breakpoint > > Thanks, I hadn't thought of that. I tried. LC now freezes with the logo > window displayed and a small blank stack at the top left of the monitor > (looks like a livecodescript trying to open.) So, can't launch now. > > > On 5/8/17 3:55 PM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode wrote: > > Have you tried deleting your Prefs? > > > > On Mon, May 8, 2017 at 9:49 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > >> Suddenly I have lost the ability to set breakpoints. Red-dot > >> breakpoints are dimmed as though the script has not been compiled (it > >> has, several > >> times.) Hard-coded "breakpoint" commands to not trigger either. I am > >> not able to debug. > >> > >> Things were going along well until I allowed remote debugging. That > >> worked for a while, then I got several crashes in a row, and now I > >> can't set breakpoints. > >> > >> I have retarted LC several times, reloaded the stack, etc. LC 9 dp 6. > >> > >> I need a quick solution. Real quick. > >> > >> -- > >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > >> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Tue May 9 10:32:19 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Tue, 09 May 2017 09:32:19 -0500 Subject: Unable to set breakpoint In-Reply-To: References: <2707bef7-b899-d889-a330-15be0c3a4af2@hyperactivesw.com> <99363ab2-287c-21b1-45ce-1f4f90de1d01@hyperactivesw.com> <139db1e0-e8e0-633d-6e3a-41a3355a608c@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <15beda00538.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Panos, it wasn't just the tools palette, there was no IDE at all. There were no menus except for the default OS X one that allowed me to quit. Nothing else loaded, so no message box, tools, keyboard shortcuts, etc. It acted like the startup aborted very early in the process. But the odd thing was that the start center did appear and when it tried to lead me through the tutorial it pointed to places on screen where the nonexistent menus would have been. I was able to open my own stack only by dropping it on the dock since there was no File menu to use. But without any menus, app or project browsers, or tools I couldn't actually do anything with it. The entire IDE was missing. I do still have an old pre-7 prefs file in the same folder as the new one, since I need to open LC 6 occasionally. It may be that LC 9 couldn't read or update it so it just gave up. I only have one monitor, and the startup didn't get far enough to load any plugins. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On May 9, 2017 4:06:33 AM panagiotis merakos via use-livecode wrote: > Hi Jacque, > > I have never seen the Tools palette disappearing after deleting my Prefs. > Could it be the case that it appeared, but offscreen? Have you connected a > secondary monitor? Are you using any Plugins? > > Anyway, I am glad the problem is solved now. If you see that again could > you please file a bug report? > > BTW, I remember in the past, all of a sudden I could not launch *any* > version of LiveCode. I tried to delete my Prefs but this did not help. > > What fixed the problem was deleting the folder /Users/panos/Libarary/Saved > Application State/com.runrev.livecode.savedState/ > > Best, > Panos > -- > > > > > > On Mon, May 8, 2017 at 10:16 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> Okay, restoring prefs from yesterday worked. Major panic averted. >> >> But there is something very wrong with a clean startup. >> >> >> On 5/8/17 4:13 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >> >>> Panos, I need to get this running. I've tried launching dp5 with the >>> same results. If I restore my old prefs, I can't set breakpoints but I >>> do get the IDE to load. If I let LC make new prefs, I get no IDE at all >>> and my only option is to quit. >>> >>> On 5/8/17 3:55 PM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>>> Have you tried deleting your Prefs? >>>> >>>> On Mon, May 8, 2017 at 9:49 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Suddenly I have lost the ability to set breakpoints. Red-dot breakpoints >>>>> are dimmed as though the script has not been compiled (it has, several >>>>> times.) Hard-coded "breakpoint" commands to not trigger either. I am not >>>>> able to debug. >>>>> >>>>> Things were going along well until I allowed remote debugging. That >>>>> worked >>>>> for a while, then I got several crashes in a row, and now I can't set >>>>> breakpoints. >>>>> >>>>> I have retarted LC several times, reloaded the stack, etc. LC 9 dp 6. >>>>> >>>>> I need a quick solution. Real quick. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >>>>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> -- >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Tue May 9 11:02:22 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Tue, 09 May 2017 10:02:22 -0500 Subject: Unable to set breakpoint In-Reply-To: References: <2707bef7-b899-d889-a330-15be0c3a4af2@hyperactivesw.com> <08cdd0fa-d2b5-9135-85d2-4e5f99eeeda9@hyperactivesw.com> <002b01d2c8c7$cc8549a0$658fdce0$@net> Message-ID: <15bedbb8830.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> It sounds like both Ralph and I have LC 6 prefs installed. The difference is that he can eventually start up correctly. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On May 9, 2017 8:35:36 AM panagiotis merakos via use-livecode wrote: > Thanks for chiming in, Ralph. > > And I was just trying to remember where I had seen this "small blank stack > at the top left" being mentioned! > > Best, > Panos > -- > > > > On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 2:25 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> "LC now freezes with the logo window displayed and a small blank stack at >> the top left of the monitor" I reported this behavior in bug 19344 on >> Windows if you delete all your prefs. I found that if you stop the process >> and re-launch, LC will open. This happens every time I delete/rename all >> the >> pref files. Also after you delete/rename the v8 prefs if you still have >> v6/v7 prefs they are brought forward to v8. You can't save the location of >> the master IDE bar in v8. I found that if I set it in v6 and delete the v8 >> prefs the that position if brought forward to v8. >> >> Back to bug 19344... Panos thinks that it might be one of my plugins(I have >> many). I need to follow up on the QC report and see if it's one of my >> plugins. I've just been busy... I will try to get to it this week. >> >> Ralph DiMola >> IT Director >> Evergreen Information Services >> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On >> Behalf >> Of J. Landman Gay via use-livecode >> Sent: Monday, May 08, 2017 5:03 PM >> To: How to use LiveCode >> Cc: J. Landman Gay >> Subject: Re: Unable to set breakpoint >> >> Thanks, I hadn't thought of that. I tried. LC now freezes with the logo >> window displayed and a small blank stack at the top left of the monitor >> (looks like a livecodescript trying to open.) So, can't launch now. >> >> >> On 5/8/17 3:55 PM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode wrote: >> > Have you tried deleting your Prefs? >> > >> > On Mon, May 8, 2017 at 9:49 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < >> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> > >> >> Suddenly I have lost the ability to set breakpoints. Red-dot >> >> breakpoints are dimmed as though the script has not been compiled (it >> >> has, several >> >> times.) Hard-coded "breakpoint" commands to not trigger either. I am >> >> not able to debug. >> >> >> >> Things were going along well until I allowed remote debugging. That >> >> worked for a while, then I got several crashes in a row, and now I >> >> can't set breakpoints. >> >> >> >> I have retarted LC several times, reloaded the stack, etc. LC 9 dp 6. >> >> >> >> I need a quick solution. Real quick. >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >> >> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> use-livecode mailing list >> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> >> subscription preferences: >> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> > use-livecode mailing list >> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > >> >> >> -- >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription >> preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From merakosp at gmail.com Tue May 9 11:06:37 2017 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Tue, 9 May 2017 16:06:37 +0100 Subject: Unable to set breakpoint In-Reply-To: <15bedbb8830.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <2707bef7-b899-d889-a330-15be0c3a4af2@hyperactivesw.com> <08cdd0fa-d2b5-9135-85d2-4e5f99eeeda9@hyperactivesw.com> <002b01d2c8c7$cc8549a0$658fdce0$@net> <15bedbb8830.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: I had LC 6 Prefs too, but did not have that problem :( It would be interesting to know which Plugins you and Ralph have in common. On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 4:02 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > It sounds like both Ralph and I have LC 6 prefs installed. The difference > is that he can eventually start up correctly. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > > > On May 9, 2017 8:35:36 AM panagiotis merakos via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > Thanks for chiming in, Ralph. >> >> And I was just trying to remember where I had seen this "small blank stack >> at the top left" being mentioned! >> >> Best, >> Panos >> -- >> >> >> >> On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 2:25 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >> "LC now freezes with the logo window displayed and a small blank stack at >>> the top left of the monitor" I reported this behavior in bug 19344 on >>> Windows if you delete all your prefs. I found that if you stop the >>> process >>> and re-launch, LC will open. This happens every time I delete/rename all >>> the >>> pref files. Also after you delete/rename the v8 prefs if you still have >>> v6/v7 prefs they are brought forward to v8. You can't save the location >>> of >>> the master IDE bar in v8. I found that if I set it in v6 and delete the >>> v8 >>> prefs the that position if brought forward to v8. >>> >>> Back to bug 19344... Panos thinks that it might be one of my plugins(I >>> have >>> many). I need to follow up on the QC report and see if it's one of my >>> plugins. I've just been busy... I will try to get to it this week. >>> >>> Ralph DiMola >>> IT Director >>> Evergreen Information Services >>> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On >>> Behalf >>> Of J. Landman Gay via use-livecode >>> Sent: Monday, May 08, 2017 5:03 PM >>> To: How to use LiveCode >>> Cc: J. Landman Gay >>> Subject: Re: Unable to set breakpoint >>> >>> Thanks, I hadn't thought of that. I tried. LC now freezes with the logo >>> window displayed and a small blank stack at the top left of the monitor >>> (looks like a livecodescript trying to open.) So, can't launch now. >>> >>> >>> On 5/8/17 3:55 PM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode wrote: >>> > Have you tried deleting your Prefs? >>> > >>> > On Mon, May 8, 2017 at 9:49 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < >>> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> > >>> >> Suddenly I have lost the ability to set breakpoints. Red-dot >>> >> breakpoints are dimmed as though the script has not been compiled (it >>> >> has, several >>> >> times.) Hard-coded "breakpoint" commands to not trigger either. I am >>> >> not able to debug. >>> >> >>> >> Things were going along well until I allowed remote debugging. That >>> >> worked for a while, then I got several crashes in a row, and now I >>> >> can't set breakpoints. >>> >> >>> >> I have retarted LC several times, reloaded the stack, etc. LC 9 dp 6. >>> >> >>> >> I need a quick solution. Real quick. >>> >> >>> >> -- >>> >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >>> >> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> use-livecode mailing list >>> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> >> subscription preferences: >>> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > use-livecode mailing list >>> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> > >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription >>> preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Tue May 9 11:24:01 2017 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Tue, 9 May 2017 11:24:01 -0400 Subject: Unable to set breakpoint In-Reply-To: <15beda00538.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <2707bef7-b899-d889-a330-15be0c3a4af2@hyperactivesw.com> <99363ab2-287c-21b1-45ce-1f4f90de1d01@hyperactivesw.com> <139db1e0-e8e0-633d-6e3a-41a3355a608c@hyperactivesw.com> <15beda00538.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <004c01d2c8d8$49c95c70$dd5c1550$@net> Same here... no IDE at all. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of J. Landman Gay via use-livecode Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2017 10:32 AM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: J. Landman Gay Subject: Re: Unable to set breakpoint Panos, it wasn't just the tools palette, there was no IDE at all. There were no menus except for the default OS X one that allowed me to quit. Nothing else loaded, so no message box, tools, keyboard shortcuts, etc. It acted like the startup aborted very early in the process. But the odd thing was that the start center did appear and when it tried to lead me through the tutorial it pointed to places on screen where the nonexistent menus would have been. I was able to open my own stack only by dropping it on the dock since there was no File menu to use. But without any menus, app or project browsers, or tools I couldn't actually do anything with it. The entire IDE was missing. I do still have an old pre-7 prefs file in the same folder as the new one, since I need to open LC 6 occasionally. It may be that LC 9 couldn't read or update it so it just gave up. I only have one monitor, and the startup didn't get far enough to load any plugins. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On May 9, 2017 4:06:33 AM panagiotis merakos via use-livecode wrote: > Hi Jacque, > > I have never seen the Tools palette disappearing after deleting my Prefs. > Could it be the case that it appeared, but offscreen? Have you > connected a secondary monitor? Are you using any Plugins? > > Anyway, I am glad the problem is solved now. If you see that again > could you please file a bug report? > > BTW, I remember in the past, all of a sudden I could not launch *any* > version of LiveCode. I tried to delete my Prefs but this did not help. > > What fixed the problem was deleting the folder > /Users/panos/Libarary/Saved Application > State/com.runrev.livecode.savedState/ > > Best, > Panos > -- > > > > > > On Mon, May 8, 2017 at 10:16 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> Okay, restoring prefs from yesterday worked. Major panic averted. >> >> But there is something very wrong with a clean startup. >> >> >> On 5/8/17 4:13 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >> >>> Panos, I need to get this running. I've tried launching dp5 with the >>> same results. If I restore my old prefs, I can't set breakpoints but >>> I do get the IDE to load. If I let LC make new prefs, I get no IDE >>> at all and my only option is to quit. >>> >>> On 5/8/17 3:55 PM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>>> Have you tried deleting your Prefs? >>>> >>>> On Mon, May 8, 2017 at 9:49 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Suddenly I have lost the ability to set breakpoints. Red-dot >>>> breakpoints >>>>> are dimmed as though the script has not been compiled (it has, >>>>> several >>>>> times.) Hard-coded "breakpoint" commands to not trigger either. I >>>>> am not able to debug. >>>>> >>>>> Things were going along well until I allowed remote debugging. >>>>> That worked for a while, then I got several crashes in a row, and >>>>> now I can't set breakpoints. >>>>> >>>>> I have retarted LC several times, reloaded the stack, etc. LC 9 dp 6. >>>>> >>>>> I need a quick solution. Real quick. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >>>>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> -- >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Tue May 9 11:30:30 2017 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Tue, 9 May 2017 11:30:30 -0400 Subject: Unable to set breakpoint In-Reply-To: References: <2707bef7-b899-d889-a330-15be0c3a4af2@hyperactivesw.com> <08cdd0fa-d2b5-9135-85d2-4e5f99eeeda9@hyperactivesw.com> <002b01d2c8c7$cc8549a0$658fdce0$@net> <15bedbb8830.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <005001d2c8d9$31ad38e0$9507aaa0$@net> Mine... Directory of N:\My LiveCode\Plugins 11/01/2016 09:29 AM 3,709 4wSetStackFileVersion.livecode 03/27/2017 07:33 PM 129,223 AndroidRemoteTesterClient.livecode 10/21/2012 11:35 AM 263,200 animationEngine.livecode 03/15/2017 07:04 PM 17,343 DB_Library.livecode 03/15/2017 07:07 PM Disabled 05/02/2017 06:04 PM 93,352 EIS_Library-01.livecode 04/21/2016 04:33 PM 18,041 FastJson.livecode 11/01/2016 09:29 AM 863 GoogleMapsAPI.livecodescript 12/09/2013 12:30 PM 1,382,022 lcStackBrowser.livecode 10/17/2012 12:48 AM 1,030,875 lcStackDiff.livecode 08/07/2012 11:55 PM 108,487 lcTaskList.livecode 11/18/2014 07:16 PM 42,230 LiveCode Error Lookup.livecode 01/22/2016 12:15 AM 831,403 MasterLibrary.livecode 03/15/2017 07:06 PM 33,700 OnRevLibrary.livecode 05/01/2017 06:58 PM 117,335 PlaceControls_Geometry_Library.livecode 03/15/2017 07:07 PM 4,068 Postal_Library.livecode 12/13/2012 04:45 PM 30,252 SetLocals.livecode Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of panagiotis merakos via use-livecode Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2017 11:07 AM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: panagiotis merakos Subject: Re: Unable to set breakpoint I had LC 6 Prefs too, but did not have that problem :( It would be interesting to know which Plugins you and Ralph have in common. On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 4:02 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > It sounds like both Ralph and I have LC 6 prefs installed. The > difference is that he can eventually start up correctly. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > > > On May 9, 2017 8:35:36 AM panagiotis merakos via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > Thanks for chiming in, Ralph. >> >> And I was just trying to remember where I had seen this "small blank >> stack at the top left" being mentioned! >> >> Best, >> Panos >> -- >> >> >> >> On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 2:25 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >> "LC now freezes with the logo window displayed and a small blank >> stack at >>> the top left of the monitor" I reported this behavior in bug 19344 >>> on Windows if you delete all your prefs. I found that if you stop >>> the process and re-launch, LC will open. This happens every time I >>> delete/rename all the pref files. Also after you delete/rename the >>> v8 prefs if you still have >>> v6/v7 prefs they are brought forward to v8. You can't save the >>> location of the master IDE bar in v8. I found that if I set it in v6 >>> and delete the >>> v8 >>> prefs the that position if brought forward to v8. >>> >>> Back to bug 19344... Panos thinks that it might be one of my >>> plugins(I have many). I need to follow up on the QC report and see >>> if it's one of my plugins. I've just been busy... I will try to get >>> to it this week. >>> >>> Ralph DiMola >>> IT Director >>> Evergreen Information Services >>> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On >>> Behalf Of J. Landman Gay via use-livecode >>> Sent: Monday, May 08, 2017 5:03 PM >>> To: How to use LiveCode >>> Cc: J. Landman Gay >>> Subject: Re: Unable to set breakpoint >>> >>> Thanks, I hadn't thought of that. I tried. LC now freezes with the >>> logo window displayed and a small blank stack at the top left of the >>> monitor (looks like a livecodescript trying to open.) So, can't launch now. >>> >>> >>> On 5/8/17 3:55 PM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode wrote: >>> > Have you tried deleting your Prefs? >>> > >>> > On Mon, May 8, 2017 at 9:49 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < >>> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> > >>> >> Suddenly I have lost the ability to set breakpoints. Red-dot >>> >> breakpoints are dimmed as though the script has not been compiled >>> >> (it has, several >>> >> times.) Hard-coded "breakpoint" commands to not trigger either. I >>> >> am not able to debug. >>> >> >>> >> Things were going along well until I allowed remote debugging. >>> >> That worked for a while, then I got several crashes in a row, and >>> >> now I can't set breakpoints. >>> >> >>> >> I have retarted LC several times, reloaded the stack, etc. LC 9 dp 6. >>> >> >>> >> I need a quick solution. Real quick. >>> >> >>> >> -- >>> >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >>> >> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> use-livecode mailing list >>> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> >> subscription preferences: >>> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > use-livecode mailing list >>> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> > >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription >>> preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Tue May 9 13:16:28 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Tue, 9 May 2017 12:16:28 -0500 Subject: Unable to set breakpoint In-Reply-To: References: <2707bef7-b899-d889-a330-15be0c3a4af2@hyperactivesw.com> <08cdd0fa-d2b5-9135-85d2-4e5f99eeeda9@hyperactivesw.com> <002b01d2c8c7$cc8549a0$658fdce0$@net> <15bedbb8830.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <6b6f3203-a9d3-f38b-ed2c-59e98bd90ac9@hyperactivesw.com> On 5/9/17 10:06 AM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode wrote: > It would be interesting to know which Plugins you and Ralph have in common. Only one, LiveCode Error Lookup, which does nothing until you manually open it. I've got these: 4W_FlightRecorder.rev 4W_gzipper.livecode AirLaunch.livecode cbfResTool.livecode Color Names.rev Go_LiveNet.livecode Improve LiveCode Handler Finder.livecode keydowner.livecode LiveCode Error Lookup.livecode objFormats.rev revapplicationoverview.rev -- copied here to fix a bug Script Manager.mc Shell_Command_Help.rev SVGExtractPath.livecode Titler.rev tmControl2.livecode Umbrellaman.livecode I could clean out some of those, I don't use most of them. But since they don't overlap with Ralph's list I doubt they're the problem. One thing he and I both do is move our LC user extensions folder to a nonstandard location. Mine is in my Dropbox folder so that changes will sync and load from any computer. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Tue May 9 14:59:27 2017 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Tue, 9 May 2017 14:59:27 -0400 Subject: Unable to set breakpoint In-Reply-To: <6b6f3203-a9d3-f38b-ed2c-59e98bd90ac9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <2707bef7-b899-d889-a330-15be0c3a4af2@hyperactivesw.com> <08cdd0fa-d2b5-9135-85d2-4e5f99eeeda9@hyperactivesw.com> <002b01d2c8c7$cc8549a0$658fdce0$@net> <15bedbb8830.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <6b6f3203-a9d3-f38b-ed2c-59e98bd90ac9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <006901d2c8f6$61f9b330$25ed1990$@net> I showed my location just in case it was relevant. My plugins are on Windows 10 SMB server raid array. I am also running LC on a Hyper-V VM. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of J. Landman Gay via use-livecode Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2017 1:16 PM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: J. Landman Gay Subject: Re: Unable to set breakpoint On 5/9/17 10:06 AM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode wrote: > It would be interesting to know which Plugins you and Ralph have in common. Only one, LiveCode Error Lookup, which does nothing until you manually open it. I've got these: 4W_FlightRecorder.rev 4W_gzipper.livecode AirLaunch.livecode cbfResTool.livecode Color Names.rev Go_LiveNet.livecode Improve LiveCode Handler Finder.livecode keydowner.livecode LiveCode Error Lookup.livecode objFormats.rev revapplicationoverview.rev -- copied here to fix a bug Script Manager.mc Shell_Command_Help.rev SVGExtractPath.livecode Titler.rev tmControl2.livecode Umbrellaman.livecode I could clean out some of those, I don't use most of them. But since they don't overlap with Ralph's list I doubt they're the problem. One thing he and I both do is move our LC user extensions folder to a nonstandard location. Mine is in my Dropbox folder so that changes will sync and load from any computer. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From harrison at all-auctions.com Tue May 9 15:37:17 2017 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison) Date: Tue, 9 May 2017 15:37:17 -0400 Subject: sysError List? In-Reply-To: <30b615e7-1ea5-8ef0-8490-2b6255564d22@fourthworld.com> References: <2DD3982D-DAA4-416A-B6EF-0617D5865501@all-auctions.com> <30b615e7-1ea5-8ef0-8490-2b6255564d22@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Hi there, Does anyone know where I can a sysError list so I can figure out what the numbers mean? Thanks, Rick From ambassador at fourthworld.com Tue May 9 15:40:23 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue, 9 May 2017 12:40:23 -0700 Subject: sysError List? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Rick Harrison wrote: > Does anyone know where I can a sysError list > so I can figure out what the numbers mean? The value returned from sysError is the OS error ID, which will vary from OS to OS and is subject to change. I usually do a search at Google for something like: Windows OS error 20 I looked up yours and it seems to be either "invalid path" or "device not found", depending on the OS and version. They may be related, where perhaps "device" refers to storage device. What are the source and dest paths you were using with your rename command? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ahsoftware at sonic.net Tue May 9 15:55:35 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Tue, 9 May 2017 12:55:35 -0700 Subject: Unable to set breakpoint In-Reply-To: <15beda00538.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <2707bef7-b899-d889-a330-15be0c3a4af2@hyperactivesw.com> <99363ab2-287c-21b1-45ce-1f4f90de1d01@hyperactivesw.com> <139db1e0-e8e0-633d-6e3a-41a3355a608c@hyperactivesw.com> <15beda00538.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: On 05/09/2017 07:32 AM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > I do still have an old pre-7 prefs file in the same folder as the new > one, since I need to open LC 6 occasionally. It may be that LC 9 > couldn't read or update it so it just gave up. Here's what I found earlier with the preferences files: There's some incompatibility between the LC6 and LC7+ preference files, and afaict it hasn't been resolved yet. The problem is compounded by the fact that when you launch LC7+ without a livecode7.rev preferences file, it reads the older format and creates a new one for you. This file is incompatible with LC7+, and so you end up with undefined things happening. If you don't have a previous preferences file then when LC7+ creates a new one for you it doesn't have the problems. So my way around this is: delete the livecode7.rev preferences file rename the livecode.rev preferences file to launch LC7+ -- this will create a new livecode7.rev file for you rename the file back to livecode.rev you now have both livecode.rev and livecode7.rev files in your preferences folder, both will work with their respective versions, but of course you need to configure the LC7+ preferences because now they're all the defaults. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From harrison at all-auctions.com Tue May 9 16:27:34 2017 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison) Date: Tue, 9 May 2017 16:27:34 -0400 Subject: sysError List? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9E049E97-11F6-4EA1-AB41-02A6DAA96EA2@all-auctions.com> Hi Richard, I did some experiments and did get one instance of rename to work properly. Apparently I had a permissions problem with writing to the folder/file. I did the search on google for macOS errors. The lists that I found weren?t much help and said at the very beginning that they weren?t up to date. It also stated they could in fact be entirely wrong due to frequent updates of error codes. Other issues I?m running into are: 1. I?m running into some 32,767 array size error when trying to upload large images to the server. Images smaller than the magic figure upload fine, and larger files over that figure throw and error message and fail to upload. 2. Where can I find the LiveCode tmp folder where the images are initially uploaded? I need the complete file path to that so I can move the images where I want them. Unless there is a way I can upload directly to the file folder I want? Thanks for your help! Rick > On May 9, 2017, at 3:40 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > The value returned from sysError is the OS error ID, which will vary from OS to OS and is subject to change. > > I usually do a search at Google for something like: > > Windows OS error 20 > > I looked up yours and it seems to be either "invalid path" or "device not found", depending on the OS and version. They may be related, where perhaps "device" refers to storage device. > > What are the source and dest paths you were using with your rename command? > > -- > Richard Gaskin From alex at tweedly.net Tue May 9 19:00:36 2017 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Wed, 10 May 2017 00:00:36 +0100 Subject: [OT] on-rev MySQL warnings - does it matter. Message-ID: <719c5080-c1ca-bec6-c3b5-56145ca28dc4@tweedly.net> Hope this isn't too off-topic but I'm pretty ignorant about MySQL ... on my account on on-rev (specifically, sage), if I use cPanel and go into phpMyAdmin, I get a warning message : Your PHP MySQL library version 5.1.73 differs from your MySQL server version 5.6.35. This may cause unpredictable behavior. This sounds scary - but does it really mean there's a problem I should ask support about, or is it just being picky ? :-) Thanks Alex. From harrison at all-auctions.com Tue May 9 19:15:54 2017 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison) Date: Tue, 9 May 2017 19:15:54 -0400 Subject: [OT] on-rev MySQL warnings - does it matter. In-Reply-To: <719c5080-c1ca-bec6-c3b5-56145ca28dc4@tweedly.net> References: <719c5080-c1ca-bec6-c3b5-56145ca28dc4@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <302B3211-0CD3-4ED0-A82A-4F9A200DF506@all-auctions.com> Hi Alex, It never hurts to ask. It also helps to keep support motivated to keep up with those important maintenance tasks. Just my 2 cents. Rick > On May 9, 2017, at 7:00 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote: > > Hope this isn't too off-topic but I'm pretty ignorant about MySQL ... > > on my account on on-rev (specifically, sage), if I use cPanel and go into phpMyAdmin, I get a warning message : > > Your PHP MySQL library version 5.1.73 differs from your MySQL server version 5.6.35. This may cause unpredictable behavior. > > > This sounds scary - but does it really mean there's a problem I should ask support about, or is it just being picky ? :-) > > Thanks > > Alex. From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Tue May 9 20:19:42 2017 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Tue, 9 May 2017 20:19:42 -0400 Subject: [OT] on-rev MySQL warnings - does it matter. In-Reply-To: <719c5080-c1ca-bec6-c3b5-56145ca28dc4@tweedly.net> References: <719c5080-c1ca-bec6-c3b5-56145ca28dc4@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <008a01d2c923$1f12cd90$5d3868b0$@net> I put in a support request for this on 4/27/2017 [Ticket#2017042710049681]. I have not heard back yet. This is not like on-rev support. I wonder if they received my support request? Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Alex Tweedly via use-livecode Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2017 7:01 PM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: Alex Tweedly Subject: [OT] on-rev MySQL warnings - does it matter. Hope this isn't too off-topic but I'm pretty ignorant about MySQL ... on my account on on-rev (specifically, sage), if I use cPanel and go into phpMyAdmin, I get a warning message : Your PHP MySQL library version 5.1.73 differs from your MySQL server version 5.6.35. This may cause unpredictable behavior. This sounds scary - but does it really mean there's a problem I should ask support about, or is it just being picky ? :-) Thanks Alex. _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Tue May 9 20:20:09 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue, 9 May 2017 17:20:09 -0700 Subject: sysError List? In-Reply-To: <9E049E97-11F6-4EA1-AB41-02A6DAA96EA2@all-auctions.com> References: <9E049E97-11F6-4EA1-AB41-02A6DAA96EA2@all-auctions.com> Message-ID: <6d5d97cf-a786-23c9-0af9-032856fdcf14@fourthworld.com> Rick Harrison wrote: > I did some experiments and did get one instance > of rename to work properly. Apparently I had > a permissions problem with writing to the folder/file. Yep, most things with file I/O that fails are either paths or permissions. Glad you got that sorted. > Other issues I?m running into are: > > 1. I?m running into some 32,767 array size > error when trying to upload large images > to the server. Images smaller than > the magic figure upload fine, and larger > files over that figure throw and error > message and fail to upload. "array size"? Where is that error coming from, the client or the server? > 2. Where can I find the LiveCode tmp folder > where the images are initially uploaded? > > I need the complete file path to that so > I can move the images where I want them. > Unless there is a way I can upload directly > to the file folder I want? I generally only use standalones on the server, and I handle buffering to disk myself. Anyone here know if LC Server does that differently? If so, where are those temp files? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ahsoftware at sonic.net Tue May 9 20:31:45 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Tue, 9 May 2017 17:31:45 -0700 Subject: Unable to set breakpoint In-Reply-To: References: <2707bef7-b899-d889-a330-15be0c3a4af2@hyperactivesw.com> <99363ab2-287c-21b1-45ce-1f4f90de1d01@hyperactivesw.com> <139db1e0-e8e0-633d-6e3a-41a3355a608c@hyperactivesw.com> <15beda00538.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: On 05/09/2017 12:55 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > On 05/09/2017 07:32 AM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > >> I do still have an old pre-7 prefs file in the same folder as the new >> one, since I need to open LC 6 occasionally. It may be that LC 9 >> couldn't read or update it so it just gave up. Also... http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15857 appears to be the recycling bin^H^H^Hcentral repository for preferences file bugs. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Tue May 9 23:02:32 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Tue, 9 May 2017 22:02:32 -0500 Subject: Unable to set breakpoint In-Reply-To: References: <2707bef7-b899-d889-a330-15be0c3a4af2@hyperactivesw.com> <99363ab2-287c-21b1-45ce-1f4f90de1d01@hyperactivesw.com> <139db1e0-e8e0-633d-6e3a-41a3355a608c@hyperactivesw.com> <15beda00538.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <5976dc5a-28e2-15f0-aca1-b8384dc50d14@hyperactivesw.com> On 5/9/17 2:55 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > Here's what I found earlier with the preferences files: Very helpful, thanks. It will save me some trouble next time. How come things only fall apart when I'm in a crunch? -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Tue May 9 23:26:35 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Tue, 9 May 2017 22:26:35 -0500 Subject: Android label and name In-Reply-To: References: <1df2d550-f947-493f-7249-396ba4c42729@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <2bb36a84-b4a7-393d-accc-7b720eff7f14@hyperactivesw.com> On 5/6/17 3:41 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > On 5/6/17 3:21 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: >> J. Landman Gay wrote: >> >>> I need to build two versions of an Android app, one for production >>> and another for testing. It appears that the standalone builder uses >>> the "name" property as the icon label in the Android launcher. I need >>> the stack name to stay the same, and only the label to differ. >>> >>> I have tried building with only the label string changed, but in the >>> launcher it still appears as the stack name. Is there a way to >>> differentiate the label without changing the stack name? >> >> IMNSHO that would be a bug. >> >> Object labels are for display to end-users; object names are for >> developers to code for. >> >> Please post the bug # here so we can follow its progress. >> > > I'm not sure yet if it's a bug or just something extra I should add to > the manifest. Android uses a complex inheritance for labelling which I > don't quite understand. > http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19674 -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From niconiko at gmail.com Tue May 9 23:41:22 2017 From: niconiko at gmail.com (Nicolas Cueto) Date: Wed, 10 May 2017 12:41:22 +0900 Subject: filter? replace? wildcard? reg exp? help please! Message-ID: Given this snippet... ------------------------------------------------------- CANTO XXXIV C?RCULO IX: TRAIDORES. ?Vexilla regis prodeunt[307] del Abismo hacia nosotros[308], mas delante mira 3?dijo el maestro? y los ver?s t? mismo.? ------------------------------------------------------- ... how do I use LC to remove the square-brackets and any string within them, so that the snippet becomes... ------------------------------------------------------- CANTO XXXIV C?RCULO IX: TRAIDORES. ?Vexilla regis prodeunt del Abismo hacia nosotros, mas delante mira 3?dijo el maestro? y los ver?s t? mismo.? ------------------------------------------------------- Muchas gracias. -- Nicol?s Cueto From bogdanoff at me.com Tue May 9 23:54:23 2017 From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff) Date: Tue, 09 May 2017 20:54:23 -0700 Subject: filter? replace? wildcard? reg exp? help please! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: use offset. Peter On May 9, 2017, at 8:41 PM, Nicolas Cueto via use-livecode wrote: > Given this snippet... > > ------------------------------------------------------- > CANTO XXXIV > C?RCULO IX: TRAIDORES. > ?Vexilla regis prodeunt[307] del Abismo > hacia nosotros[308], mas delante mira > 3?dijo el maestro? y los ver?s t? mismo.? > ------------------------------------------------------- > > ... how do I use LC to remove the square-brackets and any string within > them, so that the snippet becomes... > > ------------------------------------------------------- > CANTO XXXIV > C?RCULO IX: TRAIDORES. > ?Vexilla regis prodeunt del Abismo > hacia nosotros, mas delante mira > 3?dijo el maestro? y los ver?s t? mismo.? > ------------------------------------------------------- > > Muchas gracias. > > -- > Nicol?s Cueto > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bogdanoff at me.com Wed May 10 00:12:36 2017 From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff) Date: Tue, 09 May 2017 21:12:36 -0700 Subject: filter? replace? wildcard? reg exp? help please! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Try? put your text into tText, then repeat forever if offset("[",tText) is not empty then delete char (offset("[",tText)) to (offset("]",tText)) of tText else exit repeat end repeat On May 9, 2017, at 8:54 PM, Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode wrote: > use offset. > > Peter > > > On May 9, 2017, at 8:41 PM, Nicolas Cueto via use-livecode wrote: > >> Given this snippet... >> >> ------------------------------------------------------- >> CANTO XXXIV >> C?RCULO IX: TRAIDORES. >> ?Vexilla regis prodeunt[307] del Abismo >> hacia nosotros[308], mas delante mira >> 3?dijo el maestro? y los ver?s t? mismo.? >> ------------------------------------------------------- >> >> ... how do I use LC to remove the square-brackets and any string within >> them, so that the snippet becomes... >> >> ------------------------------------------------------- >> CANTO XXXIV >> C?RCULO IX: TRAIDORES. >> ?Vexilla regis prodeunt del Abismo >> hacia nosotros, mas delante mira >> 3?dijo el maestro? y los ver?s t? mismo.? >> ------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Muchas gracias. >> >> -- >> Nicol?s Cueto >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From revdev at pdslabs.net Wed May 10 00:16:05 2017 From: revdev at pdslabs.net (Phil Davis) Date: Tue, 9 May 2017 21:16:05 -0700 Subject: filter? replace? wildcard? reg exp? help please! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1823852a-5823-c57d-5668-1b3c98185463@pdslabs.net> There is probably an easier way, but this works: on mouseUp put "]" & field 1 into tText set the lineDelimiter to "[" set the itemDelimiter to "]" repeat for each line tLine in tText put item 2 to -1 of tLine after tNewText end repeat put tNewText into field 2 end mouseUp HTH - Phil Davis On 5/9/17 8:41 PM, Nicolas Cueto via use-livecode wrote: > Given this snippet... > > ------------------------------------------------------- > CANTO XXXIV > C?RCULO IX: TRAIDORES. > ?Vexilla regis prodeunt[307] del Abismo > hacia nosotros[308], mas delante mira > 3?dijo el maestro? y los ver?s t? mismo.? > ------------------------------------------------------- > > ... how do I use LC to remove the square-brackets and any string within > them, so that the snippet becomes... > > ------------------------------------------------------- > CANTO XXXIV > C?RCULO IX: TRAIDORES. > ?Vexilla regis prodeunt del Abismo > hacia nosotros, mas delante mira > 3?dijo el maestro? y los ver?s t? mismo.? > ------------------------------------------------------- > > Muchas gracias. > > -- > Nicol?s Cueto > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode -- Phil Davis From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed May 10 00:16:52 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Tue, 9 May 2017 23:16:52 -0500 Subject: filter? replace? wildcard? reg exp? help please! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20c85163-01cf-baec-af46-b725f6bf724d@hyperactivesw.com> On 5/9/17 10:41 PM, Nicolas Cueto via use-livecode wrote: > Given this snippet... > > ------------------------------------------------------- > CANTO XXXIV > C?RCULO IX: TRAIDORES. > ?Vexilla regis prodeunt[307] del Abismo > hacia nosotros[308], mas delante mira > 3?dijo el maestro? y los ver?s t? mismo.? > ------------------------------------------------------- > > ... how do I use LC to remove the square-brackets and any string within > them, so that the snippet becomes... > > ------------------------------------------------------- > CANTO XXXIV > C?RCULO IX: TRAIDORES. > ?Vexilla regis prodeunt del Abismo > hacia nosotros, mas delante mira > 3?dijo el maestro? y los ver?s t? mismo.? > ------------------------------------------------------- This is about the only thing I know how to do with regext. :) on fix put fld 1 into tText put "\[.*\]" into tRegEx put replacetext(tText,tRegEx,empty) into fld 2 end fix -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From niconiko at gmail.com Wed May 10 00:30:50 2017 From: niconiko at gmail.com (Nicolas Cueto) Date: Wed, 10 May 2017 13:30:50 +0900 Subject: filter? replace? wildcard? reg exp? help please! In-Reply-To: <20c85163-01cf-baec-af46-b725f6bf724d@hyperactivesw.com> References: <20c85163-01cf-baec-af46-b725f6bf724d@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: ?Thank you everyone. Went with ?Jacqueline's, cause fastest. -- N. Cueto From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed May 10 00:33:26 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Tue, 9 May 2017 23:33:26 -0500 Subject: filter? replace? wildcard? reg exp? help please! In-Reply-To: <20c85163-01cf-baec-af46-b725f6bf724d@hyperactivesw.com> References: <20c85163-01cf-baec-af46-b725f6bf724d@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <57ced69a-18ee-4d50-55ce-66055b95ffb6@hyperactivesw.com> On 5/9/17 11:16 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > On 5/9/17 10:41 PM, Nicolas Cueto via use-livecode wrote: >> Given this snippet... >> >> ------------------------------------------------------- >> CANTO XXXIV >> C?RCULO IX: TRAIDORES. >> ?Vexilla regis prodeunt[307] del Abismo >> hacia nosotros[308], mas delante mira >> 3?dijo el maestro? y los ver?s t? mismo.? >> ------------------------------------------------------- >> >> ... how do I use LC to remove the square-brackets and any string within >> them, so that the snippet becomes... >> >> ------------------------------------------------------- >> CANTO XXXIV >> C?RCULO IX: TRAIDORES. >> ?Vexilla regis prodeunt del Abismo >> hacia nosotros, mas delante mira >> 3?dijo el maestro? y los ver?s t? mismo.? >> ------------------------------------------------------- > > This is about the only thing I know how to do with regext. :) > > on fix > put fld 1 into tText > put "\[.*\]" into tRegEx > put replacetext(tText,tRegEx,empty) into fld 2 > end fix > You'd probably want it to be a function though: function removeBrackets pString return replacetext(pString,"\[.*\]",empty) end removeBrackets -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From livfoss at mac.com Wed May 10 06:57:46 2017 From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel) Date: Wed, 10 May 2017 12:57:46 +0200 Subject: filter? replace? wildcard? reg exp? help please! In-Reply-To: <57ced69a-18ee-4d50-55ce-66055b95ffb6@hyperactivesw.com> References: <20c85163-01cf-baec-af46-b725f6bf724d@hyperactivesw.com> <57ced69a-18ee-4d50-55ce-66055b95ffb6@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <82266A23-9031-4155-879B-22BAE491538C@mac.com> Totally OT, but is this Dante, in Spanish?? Just askin?. I am not good with languages, as you can probably tell. Graham > On 10 May 2017, at 06:33, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > > On 5/9/17 11:16 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >> On 5/9/17 10:41 PM, Nicolas Cueto via use-livecode wrote: >>> Given this snippet... >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------- >>> CANTO XXXIV >>> C?RCULO IX: TRAIDORES. >>> ?Vexilla regis prodeunt[307] del Abismo >>> hacia nosotros[308], mas delante mira >>> 3?dijo el maestro? y los ver?s t? mismo.? >>> ------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> ... how do I use LC to remove the square-brackets and any string within >>> them, so that the snippet becomes... >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------- >>> CANTO XXXIV >>> C?RCULO IX: TRAIDORES. >>> ?Vexilla regis prodeunt del Abismo >>> hacia nosotros, mas delante mira >>> 3?dijo el maestro? y los ver?s t? mismo.? >>> ------------------------------------------------------- >> >> This is about the only thing I know how to do with regext. :) >> >> on fix >> put fld 1 into tText >> put "\[.*\]" into tRegEx >> put replacetext(tText,tRegEx,empty) into fld 2 >> end fix >> > > You'd probably want it to be a function though: > > function removeBrackets pString > return replacetext(pString,"\[.*\]",empty) > end removeBrackets > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From livfoss at mac.com Wed May 10 07:35:14 2017 From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel) Date: Wed, 10 May 2017 13:35:14 +0200 Subject: Update strategy? Message-ID: <440AB913-1A0E-4580-A08F-FA1AAB083395@mac.com> Apologies if this has come up relatively recently, but I have not been very attentive to the list for a bit? I have a desktop app (though in principle it could be on mobile) which uses a variant of the ?splashscreen? structure. What happens is that the app as seen by the operating system is actually an initialisation stack, which then calls in a stack containing the bulk of the script and graphics for the app and executes that. (I call this a ?data stack? although this is a bit of misnomer, as it does contain the script libraries that do most of the work.) The clean (template) copy if this data stack is stored in the app?s resources folder, and is loaded the first time the app is started; thereafter the user can alter the data stack, and the altered version is saved in the application data folder. There is a reset facility for going back to the clean template. When a new version of the app is installed, the splash stack detects that the data stack is in old format (actually, that it has an old version number) and forces a reset, thus ensuring that the latest data stack comes into use. All this works quite nicely, but I notice so many apps that automatically check for updates, providing a dialog to the user offering to do the update: if the user agrees, then the update takes place without further intervention. I can kind of see how to do this (the splash stack checks with the server where the app originated to see if there is a more up to date version, then somehow replaces itself), but are there any gotchas in this approach? One I can think of so far is when the user runs the app offline, so that any approach to the server will fail - not sure how to detect that. Also, so far I am vague about how a running standalone can replace itself - something do do with file names, perhaps? I?d be grateful for any advice or experience. Graham From jonathandlynch at gmail.com Wed May 10 07:38:52 2017 From: jonathandlynch at gmail.com (jonathandlynch at gmail.com) Date: Wed, 10 May 2017 07:38:52 -0400 Subject: LC buttons look like poo in iOS, options? Message-ID: I just tested Augmented Earth on my iPhone. I was thrilled that webgl works in the browser widget with the right standalone settings. However, I was a bit distressed to see raggedy edges on round-radius buttons. What object should we use to have scalable buttons that look good on all platforms? Sent from my iPhone From colinholgate at gmail.com Wed May 10 07:59:25 2017 From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate) Date: Wed, 10 May 2017 07:59:25 -0400 Subject: LC buttons look like poo in iOS, options? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Do you have something on these lines?: ?on preopenstack if the platform contains "iphone" then iphoneUseDeviceResolution true end preopenstack? > On May 10, 2017, at 7:38 AM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode wrote: > > I just tested Augmented Earth on my iPhone. I was thrilled that webgl works in the browser widget with the right standalone settings. > > However, I was a bit distressed to see raggedy edges on round-radius buttons. > > What object should we use to have scalable buttons that look good on all platforms? > > > Sent from my iPhone > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at researchware.com Wed May 10 08:05:14 2017 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Wed, 10 May 2017 08:05:14 -0400 Subject: Update strategy? In-Reply-To: <440AB913-1A0E-4580-A08F-FA1AAB083395@mac.com> References: <440AB913-1A0E-4580-A08F-FA1AAB083395@mac.com> Message-ID: <555d13a0-ae67-b562-cd3c-ca06ed1fd5b8@researchware.com> There are a number of ways to potentially do this, but you have the gist already. I'd recommend a check for updates that just fetches a text file with the latest version number from your sever with a : Put URL into tSomeVar check the result for any error, such as the internet not being available Then compare the current version to the new version in tSomeVar. If there is no new version, exit your update handler. If there is a new version, you can then download the new stack from a fixed URL OR the version text file could contain the version number and URL ofthe new stack as 2 items or 2 lines. You can open invisible URL To download and open the new stack in memory. That stack may not be you "new" stack of your application, but an updater stack that fetched you new application stack, and updates your old stack. On 5/10/2017 7:35 AM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode wrote: > Apologies if this has come up relatively recently, but I have not been very attentive to the list for a bit? > > I have a desktop app (though in principle it could be on mobile) which uses a variant of the ?splashscreen? structure. What happens is that the app as seen by the operating system is actually an initialisation stack, which then calls in a stack containing the bulk of the script and graphics for the app and executes that. (I call this a ?data stack? although this is a bit of misnomer, as it does contain the script libraries that do most of the work.) The clean (template) copy if this data stack is stored in the app?s resources folder, and is loaded the first time the app is started; thereafter the user can alter the data stack, and the altered version is saved in the application data folder. There is a reset facility for going back to the clean template. > > When a new version of the app is installed, the splash stack detects that the data stack is in old format (actually, that it has an old version number) and forces a reset, thus ensuring that the latest data stack comes into use. > > All this works quite nicely, but I notice so many apps that automatically check for updates, providing a dialog to the user offering to do the update: if the user agrees, then the update takes place without further intervention. > > I can kind of see how to do this (the splash stack checks with the server where the app originated to see if there is a more up to date version, then somehow replaces itself), but are there any gotchas in this approach? One I can think of so far is when the user runs the app offline, so that any approach to the server will fail - not sure how to detect that. Also, so far I am vague about how a running standalone can replace itself - something do do with file names, perhaps? > > I?d be grateful for any advice or experience. > > Graham > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jonathandlynch at gmail.com Wed May 10 08:43:16 2017 From: jonathandlynch at gmail.com (jonathandlynch at gmail.com) Date: Wed, 10 May 2017 08:43:16 -0400 Subject: LC buttons look like poo in iOS, options? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8A4A3AD0-5E50-491D-9C20-F9F0ED62922C@gmail.com> I do not - is the issue about insufficient resolution? Buttons displayed through a browser don't look jagged, so I thought it was more about how they are rendered. I also want it to look good on Android, which does not have Retina display. I will give it a try and report back. Sent from my iPhone > On May 10, 2017, at 7:59 AM, Colin Holgate via use-livecode wrote: > > Do you have something on these lines?: > > ?on preopenstack > if the platform contains "iphone" then iphoneUseDeviceResolution true > end preopenstack? > > >> On May 10, 2017, at 7:38 AM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode wrote: >> >> I just tested Augmented Earth on my iPhone. I was thrilled that webgl works in the browser widget with the right standalone settings. >> >> However, I was a bit distressed to see raggedy edges on round-radius buttons. >> >> What object should we use to have scalable buttons that look good on all platforms? >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From livfoss at mac.com Wed May 10 09:10:06 2017 From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel) Date: Wed, 10 May 2017 15:10:06 +0200 Subject: Update strategy? In-Reply-To: <555d13a0-ae67-b562-cd3c-ca06ed1fd5b8@researchware.com> References: <440AB913-1A0E-4580-A08F-FA1AAB083395@mac.com> <555d13a0-ae67-b562-cd3c-ca06ed1fd5b8@researchware.com> Message-ID: <99C4FDA5-7684-408F-8F30-3C47769B0EFE@mac.com> Thanks for the quick reply, Paul! I have already got the idea of the text file and the test you mention. I now have to experiment with the ?open invisible? approach. I have had so many problems with the IDE when trying to open two stacks with the same name (it?s impossible AFAIKR - because LC doesn?t have any hierarchical concept of stack names). So maybe I have to give my updated stack a fake name, download it, activate it, get it to delete the old stack (since that one isn?t running any more) and then change its name to the ?normal? name formerly given to the now deleted stack? seems convoluted. Time to experiment, I guess. Graham > On 10 May 2017, at 14:05, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > > There are a number of ways to potentially do this, but you have the gist > already. > > I'd recommend a check for updates that just fetches a text file with the > latest version number from your sever with a : Put URL VersionFile> into tSomeVar > check the result for any error, such as the internet not being available > > Then compare the current version to the new version in tSomeVar. If > there is no new version, exit your update handler. If there is a new > version, you can then download the new stack from a fixed URL OR the > version text file could contain the version number and URL ofthe new > stack as 2 items or 2 lines. > > You can open invisible URL > > To download and open the new stack in memory. That stack may not be you > "new" stack of your application, but an updater stack that fetched you > new application stack, and updates your old stack. > > > > On 5/10/2017 7:35 AM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode wrote: >> Apologies if this has come up relatively recently, but I have not been very attentive to the list for a bit? >> >> I have a desktop app (though in principle it could be on mobile) which uses a variant of the ?splashscreen? structure. What happens is that the app as seen by the operating system is actually an initialisation stack, which then calls in a stack containing the bulk of the script and graphics for the app and executes that. (I call this a ?data stack? although this is a bit of misnomer, as it does contain the script libraries that do most of the work.) The clean (template) copy if this data stack is stored in the app?s resources folder, and is loaded the first time the app is started; thereafter the user can alter the data stack, and the altered version is saved in the application data folder. There is a reset facility for going back to the clean template. >> >> When a new version of the app is installed, the splash stack detects that the data stack is in old format (actually, that it has an old version number) and forces a reset, thus ensuring that the latest data stack comes into use. >> >> All this works quite nicely, but I notice so many apps that automatically check for updates, providing a dialog to the user offering to do the update: if the user agrees, then the update takes place without further intervention. >> >> I can kind of see how to do this (the splash stack checks with the server where the app originated to see if there is a more up to date version, then somehow replaces itself), but are there any gotchas in this approach? One I can think of so far is when the user runs the app offline, so that any approach to the server will fail - not sure how to detect that. Also, so far I am vague about how a running standalone can replace itself - something do do with file names, perhaps? >> >> I?d be grateful for any advice or experience. >> >> Graham >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From toolbook at kestner.de Wed May 10 09:10:06 2017 From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB) Date: Wed, 10 May 2017 15:10:06 +0200 Subject: AW: Update strategy? In-Reply-To: <440AB913-1A0E-4580-A08F-FA1AAB083395@mac.com> References: <440AB913-1A0E-4580-A08F-FA1AAB083395@mac.com> Message-ID: <009f01d2c98e$beb3d040$3c1b70c0$@kestner.de> I have an installer for the updates on both platforms Win and Mac, what makes it pretty easy. My Splash stack checks for updates (if there is internet, e.g. if you can access URL google.com, if there is a newer version for this platform, etc.). If there is an update, it starts the download of the update (and unzips it on windows), starts the downloaded installer and exit itself. Now the installer is launched (on Mac the user has to open the DMG) and the installer can replace everything including the start application. At the end of the update the installer calls the (updated) application and the user goes on with the new update. So the update circle is closed. Tiemo -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag von Graham Samuel via use-livecode Gesendet: Mittwoch, 10. Mai 2017 13:35 An: How to use LiveCode Cc: Graham Samuel Betreff: Update strategy? Apologies if this has come up relatively recently, but I have not been very attentive to the list for a bit? I have a desktop app (though in principle it could be on mobile) which uses a variant of the ?splashscreen? structure. What happens is that the app as seen by the operating system is actually an initialisation stack, which then calls in a stack containing the bulk of the script and graphics for the app and executes that. (I call this a ?data stack? although this is a bit of misnomer, as it does contain the script libraries that do most of the work.) The clean (template) copy if this data stack is stored in the app?s resources folder, and is loaded the first time the app is started; thereafter the user can alter the data stack, and the altered version is saved in the application data folder. There is a reset facility for going back to the clean template. When a new version of the app is installed, the splash stack detects that the data stack is in old format (actually, that it has an old version number) and forces a reset, thus ensuring that the latest data stack comes into use. All this works quite nicely, but I notice so many apps that automatically check for updates, providing a dialog to the user offering to do the update: if the user agrees, then the update takes place without further intervention. I can kind of see how to do this (the splash stack checks with the server where the app originated to see if there is a more up to date version, then somehow replaces itself), but are there any gotchas in this approach? One I can think of so far is when the user runs the app offline, so that any approach to the server will fail - not sure how to detect that. Also, so far I am vague about how a running standalone can replace itself - something do do with file names, perhaps? I?d be grateful for any advice or experience. Graham _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From colinholgate at gmail.com Wed May 10 09:34:05 2017 From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate) Date: Wed, 10 May 2017 09:34:05 -0400 Subject: LC buttons look like poo in iOS, options? In-Reply-To: <8A4A3AD0-5E50-491D-9C20-F9F0ED62922C@gmail.com> References: <8A4A3AD0-5E50-491D-9C20-F9F0ED62922C@gmail.com> Message-ID: <88F3521E-8223-4FAE-8B86-F3483E95EF3D@gmail.com> Without that line the browser part will be using native code to use Retina, and the LiveCode part won?t be using Retina. Not sure if it will make a difference on Android, there you just get more pixels. As there are so many different screen sizes, Google don?t do the automatic handling of doubling up the image that iOS does. Now, whether it even fills the screen on either platform will depend on the scale modes you?re using. > On May 10, 2017, at 8:43 AM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode wrote: > > I do not - is the issue about insufficient resolution? > > Buttons displayed through a browser don't look jagged, so I thought it was more about how they are rendered. > > I also want it to look good on Android, which does not have Retina display. > > I will give it a try and report back. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On May 10, 2017, at 7:59 AM, Colin Holgate via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Do you have something on these lines?: >> >> ?on preopenstack >> if the platform contains "iphone" then iphoneUseDeviceResolution true >> end preopenstack? >> >> >>> On May 10, 2017, at 7:38 AM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> I just tested Augmented Earth on my iPhone. I was thrilled that webgl works in the browser widget with the right standalone settings. >>> >>> However, I was a bit distressed to see raggedy edges on round-radius buttons. >>> >>> What object should we use to have scalable buttons that look good on all platforms? >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jonathandlynch at gmail.com Wed May 10 09:40:11 2017 From: jonathandlynch at gmail.com (jonathandlynch at gmail.com) Date: Wed, 10 May 2017 09:40:11 -0400 Subject: LC buttons look like poo in iOS, options? In-Reply-To: <88F3521E-8223-4FAE-8B86-F3483E95EF3D@gmail.com> References: <8A4A3AD0-5E50-491D-9C20-F9F0ED62922C@gmail.com> <88F3521E-8223-4FAE-8B86-F3483E95EF3D@gmail.com> Message-ID: <84B3854F-6BDA-4F3F-8659-93B0B71A6B8D@gmail.com> Thanks Colin, definitely going to try this. The app resizes and repositions everything based on screen dimensions, so changing the resolution won't present any problems. Sent from my iPhone > On May 10, 2017, at 9:34 AM, Colin Holgate via use-livecode wrote: > > Without that line the browser part will be using native code to use Retina, and the LiveCode part won?t be using Retina. > > Not sure if it will make a difference on Android, there you just get more pixels. As there are so many different screen sizes, Google don?t do the automatic handling of doubling up the image that iOS does. > > Now, whether it even fills the screen on either platform will depend on the scale modes you?re using. > > >> On May 10, 2017, at 8:43 AM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode wrote: >> >> I do not - is the issue about insufficient resolution? >> >> Buttons displayed through a browser don't look jagged, so I thought it was more about how they are rendered. >> >> I also want it to look good on Android, which does not have Retina display. >> >> I will give it a try and report back. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On May 10, 2017, at 7:59 AM, Colin Holgate via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> Do you have something on these lines?: >>> >>> ?on preopenstack >>> if the platform contains "iphone" then iphoneUseDeviceResolution true >>> end preopenstack? >>> >>> >>>> On May 10, 2017, at 7:38 AM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode wrote: >>>> >>>> I just tested Augmented Earth on my iPhone. I was thrilled that webgl works in the browser widget with the right standalone settings. >>>> >>>> However, I was a bit distressed to see raggedy edges on round-radius buttons. >>>> >>>> What object should we use to have scalable buttons that look good on all platforms? >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From livfoss at mac.com Wed May 10 09:44:14 2017 From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel) Date: Wed, 10 May 2017 15:44:14 +0200 Subject: Update strategy? In-Reply-To: <009f01d2c98e$beb3d040$3c1b70c0$@kestner.de> References: <440AB913-1A0E-4580-A08F-FA1AAB083395@mac.com> <009f01d2c98e$beb3d040$3c1b70c0$@kestner.de> Message-ID: <5F4A6614-8774-4B64-AEB2-880F2ED8D3A2@mac.com> Ha! This is all very educational - thanks! So you make your user go through a classic installation process - more obvious to the user on a Mac. I notice that some of the apps I used in daily life do this (for example, the Microsoft ones do, I think) but others simply do the whole job invisibly (without a visible installer interface) once the user has agreed to the update - usually this is done via a button that is labelled something like ?update and re-launch?. Some others simply do the whole update without explicitly involving the user - this was probably a preference set earlier on - I am not quite so comfortable with this, but I guess it?s just a matter of taste really. The use of the real installer after the user has already gone through the licensing process (when they first obtained the product) seems to me to call for a different ?update? mode for the installer. At least my current .dmg on the Mac, made with DropDMG, asks the user to accept the licensing terms etc. Another reason to experiment, perhaps. Anyway, thanks very much for the insight. Graham > On 10 May 2017, at 15:10, Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode wrote: > > I have an installer for the updates on both platforms Win and Mac, what makes it pretty easy. > My Splash stack checks for updates (if there is internet, e.g. if you can access URL google.com, if there is a newer version for this platform, etc.). If there is an update, it starts the download of the update (and unzips it on windows), starts the downloaded installer and exit itself. > Now the installer is launched (on Mac the user has to open the DMG) and the installer can replace everything including the start application. At the end of the update the installer calls the (updated) application and the user goes on with the new update. So the update circle is closed. > > Tiemo > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag von Graham Samuel via use-livecode > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 10. Mai 2017 13:35 > An: How to use LiveCode > Cc: Graham Samuel > Betreff: Update strategy? > > Apologies if this has come up relatively recently, but I have not been very attentive to the list for a bit? > > I have a desktop app (though in principle it could be on mobile) which uses a variant of the ?splashscreen? structure. What happens is that the app as seen by the operating system is actually an initialisation stack, which then calls in a stack containing the bulk of the script and graphics for the app and executes that. (I call this a ?data stack? although this is a bit of misnomer, as it does contain the script libraries that do most of the work.) The clean (template) copy if this data stack is stored in the app?s resources folder, and is loaded the first time the app is started; thereafter the user can alter the data stack, and the altered version is saved in the application data folder. There is a reset facility for going back to the clean template. > > When a new version of the app is installed, the splash stack detects that the data stack is in old format (actually, that it has an old version number) and forces a reset, thus ensuring that the latest data stack comes into use. > > All this works quite nicely, but I notice so many apps that automatically check for updates, providing a dialog to the user offering to do the update: if the user agrees, then the update takes place without further intervention. > > I can kind of see how to do this (the splash stack checks with the server where the app originated to see if there is a more up to date version, then somehow replaces itself), but are there any gotchas in this approach? One I can think of so far is when the user runs the app offline, so that any approach to the server will fail - not sure how to detect that. Also, so far I am vague about how a running standalone can replace itself - something do do with file names, perhaps? > > I?d be grateful for any advice or experience. > > Graham > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at researchware.com Wed May 10 09:48:57 2017 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Wed, 10 May 2017 09:48:57 -0400 Subject: Update strategy? In-Reply-To: <99C4FDA5-7684-408F-8F30-3C47769B0EFE@mac.com> References: <440AB913-1A0E-4580-A08F-FA1AAB083395@mac.com> <555d13a0-ae67-b562-cd3c-ca06ed1fd5b8@researchware.com> <99C4FDA5-7684-408F-8F30-3C47769B0EFE@mac.com> Message-ID: <74dd3591-1106-ab7a-c965-9b811709df2b@researchware.com> Your conflicting name problems is an example of why it is often best to have an "updater" or "installer" stack or executable. What gets downloaded and run is a stack whose function is to shut down the old stack and clear it out of memory and download the new version and set it up and then exit itself On 5/10/2017 9:10 AM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode wrote: > Thanks for the quick reply, Paul! > > I have already got the idea of the text file and the test you mention. I now have to experiment with the ?open invisible? approach. I have had so many problems with the IDE when trying to open two stacks with the same name (it?s impossible AFAIKR - because LC doesn?t have any hierarchical concept of stack names). So maybe I have to give my updated stack a fake name, download it, activate it, get it to delete the old stack (since that one isn?t running any more) and then change its name to the ?normal? name formerly given to the now deleted stack? seems convoluted. Time to experiment, I guess. > > Graham > >> On 10 May 2017, at 14:05, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: >> >> There are a number of ways to potentially do this, but you have the gist >> already. >> >> I'd recommend a check for updates that just fetches a text file with the >> latest version number from your sever with a : Put URL > VersionFile> into tSomeVar >> check the result for any error, such as the internet not being available >> >> Then compare the current version to the new version in tSomeVar. If >> there is no new version, exit your update handler. If there is a new >> version, you can then download the new stack from a fixed URL OR the >> version text file could contain the version number and URL ofthe new >> stack as 2 items or 2 lines. >> >> You can open invisible URL >> >> To download and open the new stack in memory. That stack may not be you >> "new" stack of your application, but an updater stack that fetched you >> new application stack, and updates your old stack. >> >> >> >> On 5/10/2017 7:35 AM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode wrote: >>> Apologies if this has come up relatively recently, but I have not been very attentive to the list for a bit? >>> >>> I have a desktop app (though in principle it could be on mobile) which uses a variant of the ?splashscreen? structure. What happens is that the app as seen by the operating system is actually an initialisation stack, which then calls in a stack containing the bulk of the script and graphics for the app and executes that. (I call this a ?data stack? although this is a bit of misnomer, as it does contain the script libraries that do most of the work.) The clean (template) copy if this data stack is stored in the app?s resources folder, and is loaded the first time the app is started; thereafter the user can alter the data stack, and the altered version is saved in the application data folder. There is a reset facility for going back to the clean template. >>> >>> When a new version of the app is installed, the splash stack detects that the data stack is in old format (actually, that it has an old version number) and forces a reset, thus ensuring that the latest data stack comes into use. >>> >>> All this works quite nicely, but I notice so many apps that automatically check for updates, providing a dialog to the user offering to do the update: if the user agrees, then the update takes place without further intervention. >>> >>> I can kind of see how to do this (the splash stack checks with the server where the app originated to see if there is a more up to date version, then somehow replaces itself), but are there any gotchas in this approach? One I can think of so far is when the user runs the app offline, so that any approach to the server will fail - not sure how to detect that. Also, so far I am vague about how a running standalone can replace itself - something do do with file names, perhaps? >>> >>> I?d be grateful for any advice or experience. >>> >>> Graham >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Wed May 10 09:59:46 2017 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Wed, 10 May 2017 09:59:46 -0400 Subject: Android label and name In-Reply-To: <2bb36a84-b4a7-393d-accc-7b720eff7f14@hyperactivesw.com> References: <1df2d550-f947-493f-7249-396ba4c42729@hyperactivesw.com> <2bb36a84-b4a7-393d-accc-7b720eff7f14@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <001601d2c995$af8eb100$0eac1300$@net> I can change the app icon label. I just changed one and it works. You do mean the one specified in the Android Standalone settings? I change them all the time on both iOS and Android. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of J. Landman Gay via use-livecode Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2017 11:27 PM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: J. Landman Gay Subject: Re: Android label and name On 5/6/17 3:41 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > On 5/6/17 3:21 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: >> J. Landman Gay wrote: >> >>> I need to build two versions of an Android app, one for production >>> and another for testing. It appears that the standalone builder uses >>> the "name" property as the icon label in the Android launcher. I >>> need the stack name to stay the same, and only the label to differ. >>> >>> I have tried building with only the label string changed, but in the >>> launcher it still appears as the stack name. Is there a way to >>> differentiate the label without changing the stack name? >> >> IMNSHO that would be a bug. >> >> Object labels are for display to end-users; object names are for >> developers to code for. >> >> Please post the bug # here so we can follow its progress. >> > > I'm not sure yet if it's a bug or just something extra I should add to > the manifest. Android uses a complex inheritance for labelling which I > don't quite understand. > http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19674 -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed May 10 10:18:40 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 10 May 2017 17:18:40 +0300 Subject: poking around near the end of a string Message-ID: <7074f7fe-cfbf-1436-4f24-32269fe1dbf1@gmail.com> Suppose I have a string a bit like this: "and then the gigantic monster bit my mother on the nose $W" and I want to check that that string ends with "$W" . . . I tried this (pseudo code): *if the ((last char) & (last char -1)) of MNOSE = "$W"* and it did not work. Richmond. From klaus at major-k.de Wed May 10 10:31:56 2017 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Wed, 10 May 2017 16:31:56 +0200 Subject: poking around near the end of a string In-Reply-To: <7074f7fe-cfbf-1436-4f24-32269fe1dbf1@gmail.com> References: <7074f7fe-cfbf-1436-4f24-32269fe1dbf1@gmail.com> Message-ID: <9E093218-BF60-447C-AC5F-359CE8EA88BA@major-k.de> Hi Richmond, > Am 10.05.2017 um 16:18 schrieb Richmond via use-livecode : > > Suppose I have a string a bit like this: > > "and then the gigantic monster bit my mother on the nose $W" > and I want to check that that string ends with "$W" . . . > I tried this (pseudo code): > *if the ((last char) & (last char -1)) of MNOSE = "$W"* > and it did not work. this does work: ... if MNOSE ends with "$W" then ... if char -2 to -1 of MNOSE = "$W" then ... > Richmond. Best Klaus -- Klaus Major http://www.major-k.de klaus at major-k.de From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed May 10 10:33:41 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 10 May 2017 17:33:41 +0300 Subject: set the points of a widget Message-ID: Does anyone know why when I do this: *set the points of widget "QQQ" to fld "FANCYPOINTS"* while the points are set, the image does NOT change? Richmond. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed May 10 10:34:29 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 10 May 2017 17:34:29 +0300 Subject: poking around near the end of a string In-Reply-To: <9E093218-BF60-447C-AC5F-359CE8EA88BA@major-k.de> References: <7074f7fe-cfbf-1436-4f24-32269fe1dbf1@gmail.com> <9E093218-BF60-447C-AC5F-359CE8EA88BA@major-k.de> Message-ID: <589fd81a-0fe9-e906-2321-b0c3ab9c704b@gmail.com> Thanks. Richmond. On 10.05.2017 17:31, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > Hi Richmond, > >> Am 10.05.2017 um 16:18 schrieb Richmond via use-livecode : >> >> Suppose I have a string a bit like this: >> >> "and then the gigantic monster bit my mother on the nose $W" >> and I want to check that that string ends with "$W" . . . >> I tried this (pseudo code): >> *if the ((last char) & (last char -1)) of MNOSE = "$W"* >> and it did not work. > this does work: > ... > if MNOSE ends with "$W" then > ... > if char -2 to -1 of MNOSE = "$W" then > ... > >> Richmond. > Best > > Klaus > > -- > Klaus Major > http://www.major-k.de > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at researchware.com Wed May 10 10:39:12 2017 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Wed, 10 May 2017 10:39:12 -0400 Subject: poking around near the end of a string In-Reply-To: <7074f7fe-cfbf-1436-4f24-32269fe1dbf1@gmail.com> References: <7074f7fe-cfbf-1436-4f24-32269fe1dbf1@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3d329fed-0079-5883-de00-cd840a403179@researchware.com> if NMOSE ends with "$W" then OR if char -2 to -1 of MNOSE is "$W" then On 5/10/2017 10:18 AM, Richmond via use-livecode wrote: > Suppose I have a string a bit like this: > > "and then the gigantic monster bit my mother on the nose $W" > > and I want to check that that string ends with "$W" . . . > > I tried this (pseudo code): > > *if the ((last char) & (last char -1)) of MNOSE = "$W"* > > and it did not work. > > > Richmond. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From klaus at major-k.de Wed May 10 10:39:47 2017 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Wed, 10 May 2017 16:39:47 +0200 Subject: set the points of a widget In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Richmond, > Am 10.05.2017 um 16:33 schrieb Richmond via use-livecode : > > Does anyone know why when I do this: > *set the points of widget "QQQ" to fld "FANCYPOINTS"* > while the points are set, the image does NOT change? it might help if you tell us WHAT kind of widget you are trying to modify! If in doubt, the dictionary lists all possible properties for each widget. See the pulldown menu at the top left in the dictionary -> Choose API:... > Richmond. Best Klaus -- Klaus Major http://www.major-k.de klaus at major-k.de From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed May 10 10:42:20 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 10 May 2017 17:42:20 +0300 Subject: set the points of a widget In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50df41eb-35ff-d28d-d03f-be57a728b67c@gmail.com> *com.livecode.widget.svgpath* On 10.05.2017 17:39, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > Hi Richmond, > >> Am 10.05.2017 um 16:33 schrieb Richmond via use-livecode : >> >> Does anyone know why when I do this: >> *set the points of widget "QQQ" to fld "FANCYPOINTS"* >> while the points are set, the image does NOT change? > it might help if you tell us WHAT kind of widget you are trying to modify! > > If in doubt, the dictionary lists all possible properties for each widget. > See the pulldown menu at the top left in the dictionary -> Choose API:... > >> Richmond. > Best > > Klaus > > -- > Klaus Major > http://www.major-k.de > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jonathandlynch at gmail.com Wed May 10 10:43:19 2017 From: jonathandlynch at gmail.com (jonathandlynch at gmail.com) Date: Wed, 10 May 2017 10:43:19 -0400 Subject: LC buttons look like poo in iOS, options? In-Reply-To: <84B3854F-6BDA-4F3F-8659-93B0B71A6B8D@gmail.com> References: <8A4A3AD0-5E50-491D-9C20-F9F0ED62922C@gmail.com> <88F3521E-8223-4FAE-8B86-F3483E95EF3D@gmail.com> <84B3854F-6BDA-4F3F-8659-93B0B71A6B8D@gmail.com> Message-ID: <96D53836-DBE4-4A05-9F93-D0D342106E5E@gmail.com> I tried it - this helps, but still looks pretty rough. I think I have an idea for how we can use SVG files pretty fluidly, though. Sent from my iPhone > On May 10, 2017, at 9:40 AM, jonathandlynch at gmail.com wrote: > > Thanks Colin, definitely going to try this. > > The app resizes and repositions everything based on screen dimensions, so changing the resolution won't present any problems. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On May 10, 2017, at 9:34 AM, Colin Holgate via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Without that line the browser part will be using native code to use Retina, and the LiveCode part won?t be using Retina. >> >> Not sure if it will make a difference on Android, there you just get more pixels. As there are so many different screen sizes, Google don?t do the automatic handling of doubling up the image that iOS does. >> >> Now, whether it even fills the screen on either platform will depend on the scale modes you?re using. >> >> >>> On May 10, 2017, at 8:43 AM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> I do not - is the issue about insufficient resolution? >>> >>> Buttons displayed through a browser don't look jagged, so I thought it was more about how they are rendered. >>> >>> I also want it to look good on Android, which does not have Retina display. >>> >>> I will give it a try and report back. >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On May 10, 2017, at 7:59 AM, Colin Holgate via use-livecode wrote: >>>> >>>> Do you have something on these lines?: >>>> >>>> ?on preopenstack >>>> if the platform contains "iphone" then iphoneUseDeviceResolution true >>>> end preopenstack? >>>> >>>> >>>>> On May 10, 2017, at 7:38 AM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I just tested Augmented Earth on my iPhone. I was thrilled that webgl works in the browser widget with the right standalone settings. >>>>> >>>>> However, I was a bit distressed to see raggedy edges on round-radius buttons. >>>>> >>>>> What object should we use to have scalable buttons that look good on all platforms? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed May 10 10:44:28 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 10 May 2017 14:44:28 +0000 Subject: Unable to set breakpoint In-Reply-To: <5976dc5a-28e2-15f0-aca1-b8384dc50d14@hyperactivesw.com> References: <2707bef7-b899-d889-a330-15be0c3a4af2@hyperactivesw.com> <99363ab2-287c-21b1-45ce-1f4f90de1d01@hyperactivesw.com> <139db1e0-e8e0-633d-6e3a-41a3355a608c@hyperactivesw.com> <15beda00538.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <5976dc5a-28e2-15f0-aca1-b8384dc50d14@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <842467F6-4363-4931-B658-245D2BA36CB2@iotecdigital.com> Gremlins. Bob S > On May 9, 2017, at 20:02 , J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > > How come things only fall apart when I'm in a crunch? > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com From klaus at major-k.de Wed May 10 10:45:03 2017 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Wed, 10 May 2017 16:45:03 +0200 Subject: set the points of a widget In-Reply-To: <50df41eb-35ff-d28d-d03f-be57a728b67c@gmail.com> References: <50df41eb-35ff-d28d-d03f-be57a728b67c@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7B5FED4B-BE51-4CB0-8EFB-81E5FF0DBC42@major-k.de> Hi Richmond, > Am 10.05.2017 um 16:42 schrieb Richmond via use-livecode : > > *com.livecode.widget.svgpath* aha, and what does the dictionary tell you about its settable properties? I do not see "points" listed there. 8-) > On 10.05.2017 17:39, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: >> Hi Richmond, >> >>> Am 10.05.2017 um 16:33 schrieb Richmond via use-livecode : >>> >>> Does anyone know why when I do this: >>> *set the points of widget "QQQ" to fld "FANCYPOINTS"* >>> while the points are set, the image does NOT change? >> it might help if you tell us WHAT kind of widget you are trying to modify! >> >> If in doubt, the dictionary lists all possible properties for each widget. >> See the pulldown menu at the top left in the dictionary -> Choose API:... Best Klaus -- Klaus Major http://www.major-k.de klaus at major-k.de From bonnmike at gmail.com Wed May 10 10:46:23 2017 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Wed, 10 May 2017 08:46:23 -0600 Subject: poking around near the end of a string In-Reply-To: <7074f7fe-cfbf-1436-4f24-32269fe1dbf1@gmail.com> References: <7074f7fe-cfbf-1436-4f24-32269fe1dbf1@gmail.com> Message-ID: if char -2 to -1 of MNOSE = "$W" should work. LAST doesn't return a numeric value (as far as I can tell) so you can't subtract from it, if you do you get strange results In addition, the order matters. You're putting the last char first, and the second to last char last (if you were allowed to use last that way) So if it did work, you'd be checking W$ against $W You could do it other ways too of course. You could use (char length(MNOSE) -1 of MNOSE & char length(MNOSE) of mNose) to do the comparison.. Note the -1 is first to keep the characters in order. On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 8:18 AM, Richmond via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Suppose I have a string a bit like this: > > "and then the gigantic monster bit my mother on the nose $W" > > and I want to check that that string ends with "$W" . . . > > I tried this (pseudo code): > > *if the ((last char) & (last char -1)) of MNOSE = "$W"* > > and it did not work. > > > Richmond. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed May 10 10:46:59 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 10 May 2017 17:46:59 +0300 Subject: set the points of a widget In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Whoops: the points (meaning the path data) are *NOT* set . . . Tried: *set the pathData* I may be going bonkers . . . R. On 10.05.2017 17:33, Richmond wrote: > > Does anyone know why when I do this: > > *set the points of widget "QQQ" to fld "FANCYPOINTS"* > > while the points are set, the image does NOT change? > > > Richmond. > From bonnmike at gmail.com Wed May 10 10:47:38 2017 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Wed, 10 May 2017 08:47:38 -0600 Subject: poking around near the end of a string In-Reply-To: References: <7074f7fe-cfbf-1436-4f24-32269fe1dbf1@gmail.com> Message-ID: Ends with.. How did I not know about that? On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 8:46 AM, Mike Bonner wrote: > if char -2 to -1 of MNOSE = "$W" should work. > > LAST doesn't return a numeric value (as far as I can tell) so you can't > subtract from it, if you do you get strange results > > In addition, the order matters. You're putting the last char first, and > the second to last char last (if you were allowed to use last that way) So > if it did work, you'd be checking W$ against $W > > You could do it other ways too of course. You could use (char > length(MNOSE) -1 of MNOSE & char length(MNOSE) of mNose) to do the > comparison.. Note the -1 is first to keep the characters in order. > > > > > On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 8:18 AM, Richmond via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> Suppose I have a string a bit like this: >> >> "and then the gigantic monster bit my mother on the nose $W" >> >> and I want to check that that string ends with "$W" . . . >> >> I tried this (pseudo code): >> >> *if the ((last char) & (last char -1)) of MNOSE = "$W"* >> >> and it did not work. >> >> >> Richmond. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed May 10 10:49:49 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 10 May 2017 17:49:49 +0300 Subject: set the points of a widget In-Reply-To: <7B5FED4B-BE51-4CB0-8EFB-81E5FF0DBC42@major-k.de> References: <50df41eb-35ff-d28d-d03f-be57a728b67c@gmail.com> <7B5FED4B-BE51-4CB0-8EFB-81E5FF0DBC42@major-k.de> Message-ID: <308c2ea2-ed5c-d7bb-9e19-627a353f4ed4@gmail.com> Nope: there is almost nothing that seems user settable. Not much use. R. On 10.05.2017 17:45, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > Hi Richmond, > >> Am 10.05.2017 um 16:42 schrieb Richmond via use-livecode : >> >> *com.livecode.widget.svgpath* > aha, and what does the dictionary tell you about its settable properties? > I do not see "points" listed there. 8-) > >> On 10.05.2017 17:39, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: >>> Hi Richmond, >>> >>>> Am 10.05.2017 um 16:33 schrieb Richmond via use-livecode : >>>> >>>> Does anyone know why when I do this: >>>> *set the points of widget "QQQ" to fld "FANCYPOINTS"* >>>> while the points are set, the image does NOT change? >>> it might help if you tell us WHAT kind of widget you are trying to modify! >>> >>> If in doubt, the dictionary lists all possible properties for each widget. >>> See the pulldown menu at the top left in the dictionary -> Choose API:... > Best > > Klaus > > -- > Klaus Major > http://www.major-k.de > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From klaus at major-k.de Wed May 10 10:51:51 2017 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Wed, 10 May 2017 16:51:51 +0200 Subject: set the points of a widget In-Reply-To: <308c2ea2-ed5c-d7bb-9e19-627a353f4ed4@gmail.com> References: <50df41eb-35ff-d28d-d03f-be57a728b67c@gmail.com> <7B5FED4B-BE51-4CB0-8EFB-81E5FF0DBC42@major-k.de> <308c2ea2-ed5c-d7bb-9e19-627a353f4ed4@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7C5333B9-F426-48AB-B1F3-8D2AAA6D0F8C@major-k.de> Hi Richmond, > Am 10.05.2017 um 16:49 schrieb Richmond via use-livecode : > > Nope: there is almost nothing that seems user settable. > Not much use. oh, come on! I'll give you a hint, it is the sixth entry in the list in the dictionary. > R. Best Klaus -- Klaus Major http://www.major-k.de klaus at major-k.de From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed May 10 10:52:31 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 10 May 2017 17:52:31 +0300 Subject: set the points of a widget In-Reply-To: <7B5FED4B-BE51-4CB0-8EFB-81E5FF0DBC42@major-k.de> References: <50df41eb-35ff-d28d-d03f-be57a728b67c@gmail.com> <7B5FED4B-BE51-4CB0-8EFB-81E5FF0DBC42@major-k.de> Message-ID: <1377a822-d468-186c-7af5-50963df439cf@gmail.com> Right: Gottit: *set the iconPath of widget "QQQ" to fld "GUFF"* thanks, Richmond. On 10.05.2017 17:45, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > Hi Richmond, > >> Am 10.05.2017 um 16:42 schrieb Richmond via use-livecode : >> >> *com.livecode.widget.svgpath* > aha, and what does the dictionary tell you about its settable properties? > I do not see "points" listed there. 8-) > >> On 10.05.2017 17:39, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: >>> Hi Richmond, >>> >>>> Am 10.05.2017 um 16:33 schrieb Richmond via use-livecode : >>>> >>>> Does anyone know why when I do this: >>>> *set the points of widget "QQQ" to fld "FANCYPOINTS"* >>>> while the points are set, the image does NOT change? >>> it might help if you tell us WHAT kind of widget you are trying to modify! >>> >>> If in doubt, the dictionary lists all possible properties for each widget. >>> See the pulldown menu at the top left in the dictionary -> Choose API:... > Best > > Klaus > > -- > Klaus Major > http://www.major-k.de > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed May 10 10:53:09 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 10 May 2017 14:53:09 +0000 Subject: Update strategy? In-Reply-To: <440AB913-1A0E-4580-A08F-FA1AAB083395@mac.com> References: <440AB913-1A0E-4580-A08F-FA1AAB083395@mac.com> Message-ID: I think what they do is launch an updater app just before quiting themselves. The updater stack replaces the app stack, launches the app stack then quits itself. Only way I would know how to do it. Bob S > On May 10, 2017, at 04:35 , Graham Samuel via use-livecode wrote: > > I can kind of see how to do this (the splash stack checks with the server where the app originated to see if there is a more up to date version, then somehow replaces itself), but are there any gotchas in this approach? One I can think of so far is when the user runs the app offline, so that any approach to the server will fail - not sure how to detect that. Also, so far I am vague about how a running standalone can replace itself - something do do with file names, perhaps? > > I?d be grateful for any advice or experience. > > Graham From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed May 10 10:53:18 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 10 May 2017 17:53:18 +0300 Subject: set the points of a widget In-Reply-To: <7C5333B9-F426-48AB-B1F3-8D2AAA6D0F8C@major-k.de> References: <50df41eb-35ff-d28d-d03f-be57a728b67c@gmail.com> <7B5FED4B-BE51-4CB0-8EFB-81E5FF0DBC42@major-k.de> <308c2ea2-ed5c-d7bb-9e19-627a353f4ed4@gmail.com> <7C5333B9-F426-48AB-B1F3-8D2AAA6D0F8C@major-k.de> Message-ID: On 10.05.2017 17:51, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > Hi Richmond, > >> Am 10.05.2017 um 16:49 schrieb Richmond via use-livecode : >> >> Nope: there is almost nothing that seems user settable. >> Not much use. > oh, come on! > > I'll give you a hint, it is the sixth entry in the list in the dictionary. *Just finished about 6 hours nonstop teaching . . .* > >> R. > Best > > Klaus > > -- > Klaus Major > http://www.major-k.de > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From sundown at pacifier.com Wed May 10 10:53:49 2017 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Wed, 10 May 2017 07:53:49 -0700 Subject: external vs. shell Message-ID: <52075C46-108A-4DF9-A041-652633E6A2AC@pacifier.com> Does anyone know the difference in speed and any advantages or disadvantages with calling the same code from a external vs a shell terminal app? Obviously one advantage of the shell is you would need to provide the compiled code but you do not need to install it like and external. While you can click on a terminal app and it wukk attempt to run and external will not. JB From klaus at major-k.de Wed May 10 10:56:59 2017 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Wed, 10 May 2017 16:56:59 +0200 Subject: set the points of a widget In-Reply-To: References: <50df41eb-35ff-d28d-d03f-be57a728b67c@gmail.com> <7B5FED4B-BE51-4CB0-8EFB-81E5FF0DBC42@major-k.de> <308c2ea2-ed5c-d7bb-9e19-627a353f4ed4@gmail.com> <7C5333B9-F426-48AB-B1F3-8D2AAA6D0F8C@major-k.de> Message-ID: <4EC2E2F2-5AFE-42B4-BC64-11D8D59471A5@major-k.de> Hi Richmond, > Am 10.05.2017 um 16:53 schrieb Richmond via use-livecode : > On 10.05.2017 17:51, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: >> Hi Richmond, >>> Am 10.05.2017 um 16:49 schrieb Richmond via use-livecode : >>> Nope: there is almost nothing that seems user settable. >>> Not much use. >> oh, come on! >> I'll give you a hint, it is the sixth entry in the list in the dictionary. > *Just finished about 6 hours nonstop teaching . . .* then get some sleep, mate, instead of doing intellectually highly challenging work! :-D >>> R. Best Klaus -- Klaus Major http://www.major-k.de klaus at major-k.de From devin_asay at byu.edu Wed May 10 11:07:36 2017 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Wed, 10 May 2017 15:07:36 +0000 Subject: poking around near the end of a string In-Reply-To: References: <7074f7fe-cfbf-1436-4f24-32269fe1dbf1@gmail.com> Message-ID: And don?t forget ?begins with?. They were both added in v. 2.9. Devin On May 10, 2017, at 8:47 AM, Mike Bonner via use-livecode > wrote: Ends with.. How did I not know about that? On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 8:46 AM, Mike Bonner > wrote: if char -2 to -1 of MNOSE = "$W" should work. LAST doesn't return a numeric value (as far as I can tell) so you can't subtract from it, if you do you get strange results In addition, the order matters. You're putting the last char first, and the second to last char last (if you were allowed to use last that way) So if it did work, you'd be checking W$ against $W You could do it other ways too of course. You could use (char length(MNOSE) -1 of MNOSE & char length(MNOSE) of mNose) to do the comparison.. Note the -1 is first to keep the characters in order. On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 8:18 AM, Richmond via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: Suppose I have a string a bit like this: "and then the gigantic monster bit my mother on the nose $W" and I want to check that that string ends with "$W" . . . I tried this (pseudo code): *if the ((last char) & (last char -1)) of MNOSE = "$W"* and it did not work. Richmond. _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode Devin Asay Director Office of Digital Humanities Brigham Young University From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed May 10 11:08:50 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 10 May 2017 15:08:50 +0000 Subject: poking around near the end of a string In-Reply-To: References: <7074f7fe-cfbf-1436-4f24-32269fe1dbf1@gmail.com> Message-ID: <233EAB6A-0E2F-4CFD-8E58-1273F4C17985@iotecdigital.com> That was a great version. :-) Bob S > On May 10, 2017, at 08:07 , Devin Asay via use-livecode wrote: > > And don?t forget ?begins with?. They were both added in v. 2.9. > > Devin From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed May 10 11:17:25 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Wed, 10 May 2017 18:17:25 +0300 Subject: Richmond imports SVGs into a widget In-Reply-To: <4EC2E2F2-5AFE-42B4-BC64-11D8D59471A5@major-k.de> References: <50df41eb-35ff-d28d-d03f-be57a728b67c@gmail.com> <7B5FED4B-BE51-4CB0-8EFB-81E5FF0DBC42@major-k.de> <308c2ea2-ed5c-d7bb-9e19-627a353f4ed4@gmail.com> <7C5333B9-F426-48AB-B1F3-8D2AAA6D0F8C@major-k.de> <4EC2E2F2-5AFE-42B4-BC64-11D8D59471A5@major-k.de> Message-ID: Go and get it: http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=29228&p=154021#p153970 Love, Richmond. From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed May 10 13:08:05 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 10 May 2017 12:08:05 -0500 Subject: Update strategy? In-Reply-To: <99C4FDA5-7684-408F-8F30-3C47769B0EFE@mac.com> References: <440AB913-1A0E-4580-A08F-FA1AAB083395@mac.com> <555d13a0-ae67-b562-cd3c-ca06ed1fd5b8@researchware.com> <99C4FDA5-7684-408F-8F30-3C47769B0EFE@mac.com> Message-ID: <922d9117-7339-9a52-2441-731f2751d94f@hyperactivesw.com> On 5/10/17 8:10 AM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode wrote: > I have already got the idea of the text file and the test you > mention. I now have to experiment with the ?open invisible? approach. > I have had so many problems with the IDE when trying to open two > stacks with the same name (it?s impossible AFAIKR - because LC > doesn?t have any hierarchical concept of stack names). I put the update code into the standalone launcher, and run it before it opens the data stack. That way you don't have two data stacks at the same time. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From livfoss at mac.com Wed May 10 14:00:23 2017 From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel) Date: Wed, 10 May 2017 20:00:23 +0200 Subject: Update strategy? In-Reply-To: <922d9117-7339-9a52-2441-731f2751d94f@hyperactivesw.com> References: <440AB913-1A0E-4580-A08F-FA1AAB083395@mac.com> <555d13a0-ae67-b562-cd3c-ca06ed1fd5b8@researchware.com> <99C4FDA5-7684-408F-8F30-3C47769B0EFE@mac.com> <922d9117-7339-9a52-2441-731f2751d94f@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Yes, but what if you want to update the launcher itself? Maybe I have made my ?splash? stack too rich in function, but I can easily see it needing revision. Because of this, I?m thinking of altering the structure of the app so that the update code is more or less all that is in the standalone recognised by the operating system, and all other stacks (including 90 percent of the original splash stack) are simply downloaded after the decision whether to update is made. Or is this stupid? Thanks as ever for your reply. Graham > On 10 May 2017, at 19:08, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > > On 5/10/17 8:10 AM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode wrote: >> I have already got the idea of the text file and the test you >> mention. I now have to experiment with the ?open invisible? approach. >> I have had so many problems with the IDE when trying to open two >> stacks with the same name (it?s impossible AFAIKR - because LC >> doesn?t have any hierarchical concept of stack names). > > I put the update code into the standalone launcher, and run it before it opens the data stack. That way you don't have two data stacks at the same time. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jonathandlynch at gmail.com Wed May 10 14:55:10 2017 From: jonathandlynch at gmail.com (jonathandlynch at gmail.com) Date: Wed, 10 May 2017 14:55:10 -0400 Subject: Using a hidden browser widget to create a perfectly scalable LC control Message-ID: I just did an experiment. It appears to be possible to have an image object that stores svg data in a custom property. It connects to a hidden browser widget to do the following: - squirt the svg data into an HTML canvas - resize the svg image using the setscale() method - export the resized image (with transparency) to a variable - pass that variable back to LC - set the image content of the image to that variable The entire operation took 4 milliseconds for a moderate sized svg image. This means we could have svg-quality resizable images, for responsive design scripts. I will try to create a browser widget with all of the necessary scripts in that one object, so you can import SVG files at will, display them in an auto-generated image, and painlessly resize the image at will. To do that, one would have to include the browser widget in a hidden place on any stacks that use these pseudo SVG images. Please let me know if you have any suggestions. I think I can get the stack up on livecodeshare in the next couple days. Sent from my iPhone From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed May 10 15:37:11 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Wed, 10 May 2017 22:37:11 +0300 Subject: Should we be thinking about WebP format? Message-ID: <1fad8f7a-e0c3-0b59-5368-f117d6e77e19@gmail.com> " WebP is an image file format from Google that provides lossy compression (like JPEG) as well as transparency (like PNG) but can provide better compression than either JPEG or PNG." https://developer.android.com/studio/releases/index.html I notice that it has been around since 2010 without there being much "hoohah" about it, although one or two people have been a bit rude about it because it is supposedly blurry. Richmond. From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed May 10 16:11:42 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 10 May 2017 15:11:42 -0500 Subject: Update strategy? In-Reply-To: References: <440AB913-1A0E-4580-A08F-FA1AAB083395@mac.com> <555d13a0-ae67-b562-cd3c-ca06ed1fd5b8@researchware.com> <99C4FDA5-7684-408F-8F30-3C47769B0EFE@mac.com> <922d9117-7339-9a52-2441-731f2751d94f@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: On 5/10/17 1:00 PM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode wrote: > Yes, but what if you want to update the launcher itself? Maybe I have > made my ?splash? stack too rich in function, but I can easily see it > needing revision. Because of this, I?m thinking of altering the > structure of the app so that the update code is more or less all that > is in the standalone recognised by the operating system, and all > other stacks (including 90 percent of the original splash stack) are > simply downloaded after the decision whether to update is made. Or is > this stupid? No, it's smart. The launcher should be the barest minimum required to get the rest of the data/stacks/whatever to load. That way there is rarely a need to update. I've generally taken the easy way out. If I do need to update the launcher itself, it asks the user if they want to update and then launches a URL to a web page that has the download. I figure if the user could get it installed the first time, they can install the update. That's lazy on my part, but so far there haven't been many issues with it. That's for desktop only. On mobile it's easy to let the OS do the updating. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed May 10 16:16:14 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 10 May 2017 15:16:14 -0500 Subject: Android label and name In-Reply-To: <001601d2c995$af8eb100$0eac1300$@net> References: <1df2d550-f947-493f-7249-396ba4c42729@hyperactivesw.com> <2bb36a84-b4a7-393d-accc-7b720eff7f14@hyperactivesw.com> <001601d2c995$af8eb100$0eac1300$@net> Message-ID: It turns out Ralph is right, and I've closed my bug report. I'm not sure why it wasn't working before, but that was back when I was having all sorts of issues with LC/prefs files/crashes so maybe that was it. On 5/10/17 8:59 AM, Ralph DiMola wrote: > I can change the app icon label. I just changed one and it works. You do > mean the one specified in the Android Standalone settings? I change them all > the time on both iOS and Android. > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf > Of J. Landman Gay via use-livecode > Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2017 11:27 PM > To: How to use LiveCode > Cc: J. Landman Gay > Subject: Re: Android label and name > > On 5/6/17 3:41 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >> On 5/6/17 3:21 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: >>> J. Landman Gay wrote: >>> >>>> I need to build two versions of an Android app, one for production >>>> and another for testing. It appears that the standalone builder uses >>>> the "name" property as the icon label in the Android launcher. I >>>> need the stack name to stay the same, and only the label to differ. >>>> >>>> I have tried building with only the label string changed, but in the >>>> launcher it still appears as the stack name. Is there a way to >>>> differentiate the label without changing the stack name? >>> >>> IMNSHO that would be a bug. >>> >>> Object labels are for display to end-users; object names are for >>> developers to code for. >>> >>> Please post the bug # here so we can follow its progress. >>> >> >> I'm not sure yet if it's a bug or just something extra I should add to >> the manifest. Android uses a complex inheritance for labelling which I >> don't quite understand. >> > > http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19674 > -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed May 10 16:55:01 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 10 May 2017 20:55:01 +0000 Subject: Using a hidden browser widget to create a perfectly scalable LC control In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <843BED93-9F97-4844-8620-CDEBE64CBF48@iotecdigital.com> Sweet! > On May 10, 2017, at 11:55 , Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode wrote: > > I just did an experiment. It appears to be possible to have an image object that stores svg data in a custom property. From hh at hyperhh.de Wed May 10 18:40:02 2017 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 00:40:02 +0200 Subject: Using a hidden browser widget to create a perfectly scalable LC control Message-ID: <5E9F21CE-8927-4295-8896-A08AEAEDACBA@hyperhh.de> This is essentially already done by Alejandro with SVGtoPNG, see the Forum/RichMedia. From niconiko at gmail.com Wed May 10 19:17:55 2017 From: niconiko at gmail.com (Nicolas Cueto) Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 08:17:55 +0900 Subject: filter? replace? wildcard? reg exp? help please! In-Reply-To: <82266A23-9031-4155-879B-22BAE491538C@mac.com> References: <20c85163-01cf-baec-af46-b725f6bf724d@hyperactivesw.com> <57ced69a-18ee-4d50-55ce-66055b95ffb6@hyperactivesw.com> <82266A23-9031-4155-879B-22BAE491538C@mac.com> Message-ID: > Totally OT, but is this Dante, in Spanish?? Yes, and yes. From the verse translation of ?ngel Crespo. -- Nicolas Cueto On 10 May 2017 at 19:57, Graham Samuel via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Totally OT, but is this Dante, in Spanish?? > > Just askin?. I am not good with languages, as you can probably tell. > > Graham > > > On 10 May 2017, at 06:33, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > On 5/9/17 11:16 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > >> On 5/9/17 10:41 PM, Nicolas Cueto via use-livecode wrote: > >>> Given this snippet... > >>> > >>> ------------------------------------------------------- > >>> CANTO XXXIV > >>> C?RCULO IX: TRAIDORES. > >>> ?Vexilla regis prodeunt[307] del Abismo > >>> hacia nosotros[308], mas delante mira > >>> 3?dijo el maestro? y los ver?s t? mismo.? > >>> ------------------------------------------------------- > >>> > >>> ... how do I use LC to remove the square-brackets and any string within > >>> them, so that the snippet becomes... > >>> > >>> ------------------------------------------------------- > >>> CANTO XXXIV > >>> C?RCULO IX: TRAIDORES. > >>> ?Vexilla regis prodeunt del Abismo > >>> hacia nosotros, mas delante mira > >>> 3?dijo el maestro? y los ver?s t? mismo.? > >>> ------------------------------------------------------- > >> > >> This is about the only thing I know how to do with regext. :) > >> > >> on fix > >> put fld 1 into tText > >> put "\[.*\]" into tRegEx > >> put replacetext(tText,tRegEx,empty) into fld 2 > >> end fix > >> > > > > You'd probably want it to be a function though: > > > > function removeBrackets pString > > return replacetext(pString,"\[.*\]",empty) > > end removeBrackets > > > > -- > > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Wed May 10 19:53:01 2017 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Wed, 10 May 2017 19:53:01 -0400 Subject: PDF on Android In-Reply-To: <5E9F21CE-8927-4295-8896-A08AEAEDACBA@hyperhh.de> References: <5E9F21CE-8927-4295-8896-A08AEAEDACBA@hyperhh.de> Message-ID: <00a001d2c9e8$8f268e30$ad73aa90$@net> The mobile browser on Android will not render a PDF. I've been trying the both the Browser Widget and old school control creation to display a PDF. Both ways yield the same results. Is there a way to display a PDF on Android inside of LC? IDE Windows==>PDF renders OK. Android==>Only a white screen. iOS==>PDF renders OK. IDE Mac==>Only a white screen. This surprised me. Only tried the Browser Widget. Thanks Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net From jonathandlynch at gmail.com Wed May 10 19:51:00 2017 From: jonathandlynch at gmail.com (jonathandlynch at gmail.com) Date: Wed, 10 May 2017 19:51:00 -0400 Subject: Using a hidden browser widget to create a perfectly scalable LC control In-Reply-To: <5E9F21CE-8927-4295-8896-A08AEAEDACBA@hyperhh.de> References: <5E9F21CE-8927-4295-8896-A08AEAEDACBA@hyperhh.de> Message-ID: Ah - sorry to reinvent the wheel. I already did it, though, and it allows for live near-perfect resizing, so I will go ahead and share it for that one aspect. Sent from my iPhone > On May 10, 2017, at 6:40 PM, hh via use-livecode wrote: > > This is essentially already done by Alejandro with SVGtoPNG, > see the Forum/RichMedia. > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From hh at hyperhh.de Wed May 10 20:15:53 2017 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 02:15:53 +0200 Subject: Using a hidden browser widget to create a perfectly scalable LC control Message-ID: Hi Jonathan, if you do it anyway, then you could also add SVG-Filter. Not too much work, they can easily be chained and work fine in the browser widget (where the browser widget works ...). I have it working but have no time for the demostack. Hermann From capellan2000 at gmail.com Wed May 10 23:09:54 2017 From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada) Date: Wed, 10 May 2017 23:09:54 -0400 Subject: Using a hidden browser widget to create a perfectly scalable LC control Message-ID: Hi All, On May 10, 2017, Hermann wrote: > This is essentially already done by Alejandro with SVGtoPNG, > see the Forum/RichMedia. Many Thanks for remember these stacks! :D They worked more as an experiment or a Proof-of-Concept. Jonathan's work in this area is the real deal. Immediately useful and easy to use. Jonathan Lynch wrote: > Ah - sorry to reinvent the wheel. I already did it, though, > and it allows for live near-perfect resizing, so I will go ahead > and share it for that one aspect. Great! Many thanks for sharing your work. :D I hope that you find tine to write a step by step tutorial about how to use many useful javascript libraries from Livecode. (like bzip2 Javascript libraries) Keep Up this great work! Al From capellan2000 at gmail.com Wed May 10 23:25:07 2017 From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada) Date: Wed, 10 May 2017 23:25:07 -0400 Subject: Should we be thinking about WebP format? Message-ID: Hi Richmond, WebP and WebM support are requested since 2014: http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12448 Check if we could use Jonathan's stack that displays Scalable SVG as imageData to display WebP as PNG images within LiveCode. Al From toolbook at kestner.de Thu May 11 02:31:34 2017 From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB) Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 08:31:34 +0200 Subject: AW: Update strategy? In-Reply-To: References: <440AB913-1A0E-4580-A08F-FA1AAB083395@mac.com> <555d13a0-ae67-b562-cd3c-ca06ed1fd5b8@researchware.com> <99C4FDA5-7684-408F-8F30-3C47769B0EFE@mac.com> <922d9117-7339-9a52-2441-731f2751d94f@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <005201d2ca20$3d48ef80$b7dace80$@kestner.de> Even if you try to keep the code in the "update launcher" as small as possible, there can still keep the whish to update the "update launcher" itself, as you say. E.g. I once had to revise the options on how to check for a new update in the "update launcher". Starting a download, launching the downloaded update installer and exiting itself can update anything you want including the launcher itself. Tiemo -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag von Graham Samuel via use-livecode Gesendet: Mittwoch, 10. Mai 2017 20:00 An: How to use LiveCode Cc: Graham Samuel Betreff: Re: Update strategy? Yes, but what if you want to update the launcher itself? Maybe I have made my ?splash? stack too rich in function, but I can easily see it needing revision. Because of this, I?m thinking of altering the structure of the app so that the update code is more or less all that is in the standalone recognised by the operating system, and all other stacks (including 90 percent of the original splash stack) are simply downloaded after the decision whether to update is made. Or is this stupid? Thanks as ever for your reply. Graham > On 10 May 2017, at 19:08, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > > On 5/10/17 8:10 AM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode wrote: >> I have already got the idea of the text file and the test you >> mention. I now have to experiment with the ?open invisible? approach. >> I have had so many problems with the IDE when trying to open two >> stacks with the same name (it?s impossible AFAIKR - because LC >> doesn?t have any hierarchical concept of stack names). > > I put the update code into the standalone launcher, and run it before it opens the data stack. That way you don't have two data stacks at the same time. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From toolbook at kestner.de Thu May 11 08:32:54 2017 From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB) Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 14:32:54 +0200 Subject: Wouldn't it be nice to have a "back/forward" button in script editor? Message-ID: <001801d2ca52$b79d8b10$26d8a130$@kestner.de> When working on longer scripts with a lot of handlers, I often work on handler 1 and have to jump to handler 2 to have a look at it. Afterwords I have to go back to my handler 1. Nowadays I have to keep in mind, at which handler I was coming from and click at it in the list of handlers. Wouldn't it be nice, to have a "back" and "forward" button, (like in a browser) to get back to the last visited line (not like in a browser) or again forward, where I 've already been? Am I the only one, working like this, or is it my overflowed brain requesting such a feature? Tiemo From merakosp at gmail.com Thu May 11 08:38:30 2017 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 13:38:30 +0100 Subject: Wouldn't it be nice to have a "back/forward" button in script editor? In-Reply-To: <001801d2ca52$b79d8b10$26d8a130$@kestner.de> References: <001801d2ca52$b79d8b10$26d8a130$@kestner.de> Message-ID: Tiemo, This feature would be really really useful. Please feel free to file an enhancement request. Panos -- On Thu, May 11, 2017 at 1:32 PM, Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > When working on longer scripts with a lot of handlers, I often work on > handler 1 and have to jump to handler 2 to have a look at it. Afterwords I > have to go back to my handler 1. Nowadays I have to keep in mind, at which > handler I was coming from and click at it in the list of handlers. Wouldn't > it be nice, to have a "back" and "forward" button, (like in a browser) to > get back to the last visited line (not like in a browser) or again forward, > where I 've already been? > > Am I the only one, working like this, or is it my overflowed brain > requesting such a feature? > > Tiemo > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From toolbook at kestner.de Thu May 11 08:54:52 2017 From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB) Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 14:54:52 +0200 Subject: AW: Wouldn't it be nice to have a "back/forward" button in script editor? In-Reply-To: References: <001801d2ca52$b79d8b10$26d8a130$@kestner.de> Message-ID: <001d01d2ca55$c934fe50$5b9efaf0$@kestner.de> Done: 19683 You can vote for it :) Tiemo -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag von panagiotis merakos via use-livecode Gesendet: Donnerstag, 11. Mai 2017 14:39 An: How to use LiveCode Cc: panagiotis merakos Betreff: Re: Wouldn't it be nice to have a "back/forward" button in script editor? Tiemo, This feature would be really really useful. Please feel free to file an enhancement request. Panos -- On Thu, May 11, 2017 at 1:32 PM, Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > When working on longer scripts with a lot of handlers, I often work on > handler 1 and have to jump to handler 2 to have a look at it. > Afterwords I have to go back to my handler 1. Nowadays I have to keep > in mind, at which handler I was coming from and click at it in the > list of handlers. Wouldn't it be nice, to have a "back" and "forward" > button, (like in a browser) to get back to the last visited line (not > like in a browser) or again forward, where I 've already been? > > Am I the only one, working like this, or is it my overflowed brain > requesting such a feature? > > Tiemo > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Thu May 11 09:16:20 2017 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 09:16:20 -0400 Subject: Wouldn't it be nice to have a "back/forward" button in script editor? In-Reply-To: <001801d2ca52$b79d8b10$26d8a130$@kestner.de> References: <001801d2ca52$b79d8b10$26d8a130$@kestner.de> Message-ID: <001f01d2ca58$c8305830$58910890$@net> This would be a great enhancement. Coming from VB land I really miss the VB IDE right click "Last position" menu option in LC. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2017 8:33 AM To: LiveCode User Liste senden Cc: Tiemo Hollmann TB Subject: Wouldn't it be nice to have a "back/forward" button in script editor? When working on longer scripts with a lot of handlers, I often work on handler 1 and have to jump to handler 2 to have a look at it. Afterwords I have to go back to my handler 1. Nowadays I have to keep in mind, at which handler I was coming from and click at it in the list of handlers. Wouldn't it be nice, to have a "back" and "forward" button, (like in a browser) to get back to the last visited line (not like in a browser) or again forward, where I 've already been? Am I the only one, working like this, or is it my overflowed brain requesting such a feature? Tiemo _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From capellan2000 at gmail.com Thu May 11 10:18:21 2017 From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada) Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 10:18:21 -0400 Subject: PDF on Android Message-ID: Hi Ralph, Take a look at this forum thread: "New approach for offline viewing PDF inside Android browser" http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=28518&p=152687 MaxV uses the javascript library named pdf.js for this purpose. Al From jonathandlynch at gmail.com Thu May 11 10:41:16 2017 From: jonathandlynch at gmail.com (jonathandlynch at gmail.com) Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 10:41:16 -0400 Subject: Using a hidden browser widget to create a perfectly scalable LC control In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <411EBD81-6288-4F5B-9C16-95EC53A00B72@gmail.com> Hi Alejandro, I am almost done. It has a weird bug where the widget only works after the first attempt for each image. It works great after that. I will get it, though. Sent from my iPhone > On May 10, 2017, at 11:09 PM, Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi All, > >> On May 10, 2017, Hermann wrote: >> This is essentially already done by Alejandro with SVGtoPNG, >> see the Forum/RichMedia. > > Many Thanks for remember these stacks! :D > They worked more as an experiment or a Proof-of-Concept. > Jonathan's work in this area is the real deal. > Immediately useful and easy to use. > > Jonathan Lynch wrote: >> Ah - sorry to reinvent the wheel. I already did it, though, >> and it allows for live near-perfect resizing, so I will go ahead >> and share it for that one aspect. > > Great! Many thanks for sharing your work. :D > I hope that you find tine to write a step by step > tutorial about how to use many useful javascript libraries > from Livecode. (like bzip2 Javascript libraries) > Keep Up this great work! > > Al > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org Thu May 11 10:43:11 2017 From: prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org (prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org) Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 07:43:11 -0700 Subject: Wouldn't it be nice to have a "back/forward" button in script editor? In-Reply-To: <001f01d2ca58$c8305830$58910890$@net> References: <001801d2ca52$b79d8b10$26d8a130$@kestner.de> <001f01d2ca58$c8305830$58910890$@net> Message-ID: <7928C00B-1414-4E3C-A6FD-E703A94DAD84@earthlearningsolutions.org> Tiemo, +1 Bill P William Prothero http://es.earthednet.org > On May 11, 2017, at 6:16 AM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote: > > This would be a great enhancement. Coming from VB land I really miss the VB > IDE right click "Last position" menu option in LC. > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf > Of Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode > Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2017 8:33 AM > To: LiveCode User Liste senden > Cc: Tiemo Hollmann TB > Subject: Wouldn't it be nice to have a "back/forward" button in script > editor? > > When working on longer scripts with a lot of handlers, I often work on > handler 1 and have to jump to handler 2 to have a look at it. Afterwords I > have to go back to my handler 1. Nowadays I have to keep in mind, at which > handler I was coming from and click at it in the list of handlers. Wouldn't > it be nice, to have a "back" and "forward" button, (like in a browser) to > get back to the last visited line (not like in a browser) or again forward, > where I 've already been? > > Am I the only one, working like this, or is it my overflowed brain > requesting such a feature? > > Tiemo > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu May 11 10:45:17 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 07:45:17 -0700 Subject: Wouldn't it be nice to have a "back/forward" button in script editor? In-Reply-To: <001801d2ca52$b79d8b10$26d8a130$@kestner.de> References: <001801d2ca52$b79d8b10$26d8a130$@kestner.de> Message-ID: <8a09a2fd-464c-5027-a91e-6f16b5a31787@fourthworld.com> Tiemo Hollmann wrote: > When working on longer scripts with a lot of handlers, I often work on > handler 1 and have to jump to handler 2 to have a look at it. > Afterwords I have to go back to my handler 1. Nowadays I have to keep > in mind, at which handler I was coming from and click at it in the > list of handlers. Wouldn't it be nice, to have a "back" and "forward" > button, (like in a browser) to get back to the last visited line (not > like in a browser) or again forward, where I 've already been? Isn't that the use-case that in other editors is supported with split views? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu May 11 10:49:14 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 07:49:14 -0700 Subject: Using a hidden browser widget to create a perfectly scalable LC control In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7abc4e47-0095-8590-2438-d01cbae87273@fourthworld.com> jonathandlynch wrote: > I just did an experiment. It appears to be possible to have an image > object that stores svg data in a custom property. It connects to a > hidden browser widget to do the following: > > - squirt the svg data into an HTML canvas > - resize the svg image using the setscale() method > - export the resized image (with transparency) to a variable > - pass that variable back to LC > - set the image content of the image to that variable > > The entire operation took 4 milliseconds for a moderate sized svg > image. > > This means we could have svg-quality resizable images, for responsive > design scripts. Clever workaround, but looking at the bigger picture of platform adoption, do we really want to tell new users that to display SVGs you need to embed an entire browser application inside your application? What is the purpose of the existing SVG widget if not to render SVGs? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu May 11 10:51:51 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 14:51:51 +0000 Subject: Wouldn't it be nice to have a "back/forward" button in script editor? In-Reply-To: <001801d2ca52$b79d8b10$26d8a130$@kestner.de> References: <001801d2ca52$b79d8b10$26d8a130$@kestner.de> Message-ID: <87D35863-CAE3-47D7-982D-ABFA35311A42@iotecdigital.com> GLX2 had a neat concept called breadcrumbs. Maybe someone could dig into the code and see what made breadcrumbs work, then incorporate it into the main script editor. Bob S > On May 11, 2017, at 05:32 , Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode wrote: > > When working on longer scripts with a lot of handlers, I often work on > handler 1 and have to jump to handler 2 to have a look at it. Afterwords I > have to go back to my handler 1. Nowadays I have to keep in mind, at which > handler I was coming from and click at it in the list of handlers. Wouldn't > it be nice, to have a "back" and "forward" button, (like in a browser) to > get back to the last visited line (not like in a browser) or again forward, > where I 've already been? > > Am I the only one, working like this, or is it my overflowed brain > requesting such a feature? > > Tiemo From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu May 11 11:10:31 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 08:10:31 -0700 Subject: Wikipedia Message-ID: <2d591a89-1097-4452-b55b-8a8c3c78dd9a@fourthworld.com> The LiveCode page at Wikipedia is so out of date portions are now incorrect: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LiveCode I'm not able to update that right now, but if any of you get to it first that would be very helpful. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From capellan2000 at gmail.com Thu May 11 11:30:59 2017 From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada) Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 11:30:59 -0400 Subject: Using a hidden browser widget to create a perfectly scalable LC control Message-ID: > What is the purpose of the existing SVG widget > if not to render SVGs? SVG widget does not render SVG. SVG widget uses the path data of SVG to draw a vector graphic. More surprising is learning that still today, does not exist a SVG render that fully cover the SVG specification... SVG renders within web browsers are close, really close, but incomplete. LC SVG widget should target SVG Tiny or SVG Basic (Specification 1.1) https://www.w3.org/TR/SVGMobile/ Al From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu May 11 11:34:37 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 08:34:37 -0700 Subject: Using a hidden browser widget to create a perfectly scalable LC control In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5b176780-0f12-f00d-0b77-03620c6c6620@fourthworld.com> Alejandro Tejada wrote: >> What is the purpose of the existing SVG widget >> if not to render SVGs? > > SVG widget does not render SVG. To paraphrase the late great Mr. Jobs, why doesn't it do that? What purpose does an SVG widget serve if not to bring SVG into LC? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From jonathandlynch at gmail.com Thu May 11 11:44:48 2017 From: jonathandlynch at gmail.com (jonathandlynch at gmail.com) Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 11:44:48 -0400 Subject: Using a hidden browser widget to create a perfectly scalable LC control In-Reply-To: <7abc4e47-0095-8590-2438-d01cbae87273@fourthworld.com> References: <7abc4e47-0095-8590-2438-d01cbae87273@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <80B4360E-D067-4AD7-B253-FAA4BD777113@gmail.com> I agree - but I need fully scalable controls for Augmented Earth now, not later, and the current SVG objects are not complete. My app uses the browser widget anyway, so not worried about the overhead. Sent from my iPhone > On May 11, 2017, at 10:49 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > jonathandlynch wrote: > > > I just did an experiment. It appears to be possible to have an image > > object that stores svg data in a custom property. It connects to a > > hidden browser widget to do the following: > > > > - squirt the svg data into an HTML canvas > > - resize the svg image using the setscale() method > > - export the resized image (with transparency) to a variable > > - pass that variable back to LC > > - set the image content of the image to that variable > > > > The entire operation took 4 milliseconds for a moderate sized svg > > image. > > > > This means we could have svg-quality resizable images, for responsive > > design scripts. > > Clever workaround, but looking at the bigger picture of platform adoption, do we really want to tell new users that to display SVGs you need to embed an entire browser application inside your application? > > What is the purpose of the existing SVG widget if not to render SVGs? > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu May 11 12:17:16 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 11:17:16 -0500 Subject: Wouldn't it be nice to have a "back/forward" button in script editor? In-Reply-To: <001801d2ca52$b79d8b10$26d8a130$@kestner.de> References: <001801d2ca52$b79d8b10$26d8a130$@kestner.de> Message-ID: <15bf84c7cf0.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> I've wanted this for years. There is half a way to do it, but it's very limited. Right click on a handler name in calling handler and choose "go to definition". It will scroll to the handler in the script or open a new script tab if necessary. The orginal start position in the handler list remains hilited so you can find it again easily. But it's far from perfect. If you click anywhere in the new handler, the list selection changes. And it only works for one hop. But even that much is useful for a quick check on what a particular handler does. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On May 11, 2017 7:35:41 AM Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode wrote: > When working on longer scripts with a lot of handlers, I often work on > handler 1 and have to jump to handler 2 to have a look at it. Afterwords I > have to go back to my handler 1. Nowadays I have to keep in mind, at which > handler I was coming from and click at it in the list of handlers. Wouldn't > it be nice, to have a "back" and "forward" button, (like in a browser) to > get back to the last visited line (not like in a browser) or again forward, > where I 've already been? > > Am I the only one, working like this, or is it my overflowed brain > requesting such a feature? > > Tiemo > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Thu May 11 12:21:44 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 19:21:44 +0300 Subject: Wouldn't it be nice to have a "back/forward" button in script editor? In-Reply-To: <15bf84c7cf0.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <001801d2ca52$b79d8b10$26d8a130$@kestner.de> <15bf84c7cf0.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Jacque, are you confusing the dictionary with the script editor? On May 11, 2017 7:17 PM, "J. Landman Gay via use-livecode" < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I've wanted this for years. There is half a way to do it, but it's very > limited. Right click on a handler name in calling handler and choose "go to > definition". It will scroll to the handler in the script or open a new > script tab if necessary. The orginal start position in the handler list > remains hilited so you can find it again easily. > > But it's far from perfect. If you click anywhere in the new handler, the > list selection changes. And it only works for one hop. But even that much > is useful for a quick check on what a particular handler does. > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > > > On May 11, 2017 7:35:41 AM Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > When working on longer scripts with a lot of handlers, I often work on >> handler 1 and have to jump to handler 2 to have a look at it. Afterwords I >> have to go back to my handler 1. Nowadays I have to keep in mind, at which >> handler I was coming from and click at it in the list of handlers. >> Wouldn't >> it be nice, to have a "back" and "forward" button, (like in a browser) to >> get back to the last visited line (not like in a browser) or again >> forward, >> where I 've already been? >> >> Am I the only one, working like this, or is it my overflowed brain >> requesting such a feature? >> >> Tiemo >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From panos.merakos at livecode.com Thu May 11 12:27:28 2017 From: panos.merakos at livecode.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 17:27:28 +0100 Subject: [ANN] Release 8.1.4 RC-2 Message-ID: Dear list members, We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 8.1.4 RC-2. Getting the Release =================== You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ or via the automatic updater. Release Contents ================ LiveCode 8.1.4 RC-2 contains 11 important bug fixes and stability improvements: - Several crashes have been fixed. - New version of tsNet (1.2.8) that addresses various network-related bugs is included. - Xcode 8.3.x and iOS 10.3 support is added (requires MacOS Sierra) - A couple of IDE-related regressions have been fixed. The full release notes are available from: http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/8_1_4/LiveCodeNotes-8_1_4_rc_2.pdf Feedback ======== Please report any bugs encountered on our BugZilla at http://quality.livecode.com/ Have fun! The LiveCode Team -- From ahsoftware at sonic.net Thu May 11 12:37:12 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 09:37:12 -0700 Subject: Wouldn't it be nice to have a "back/forward" button in script editor? In-Reply-To: <87D35863-CAE3-47D7-982D-ABFA35311A42@iotecdigital.com> References: <001801d2ca52$b79d8b10$26d8a130$@kestner.de> <87D35863-CAE3-47D7-982D-ABFA35311A42@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: On 05/11/2017 07:51 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > GLX2 had a neat concept called breadcrumbs. Maybe someone could dig into the code and see what made breadcrumbs work, then incorporate it into the main script editor. > > Bob S Feel free to do so. https://bitbucket.org/mwieder/glx2 -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From ahsoftware at sonic.net Thu May 11 12:51:55 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 09:51:55 -0700 Subject: ANN: new team member Message-ID: Word from the grapevine is that Ali Lloyd is the new father of a baby programmer. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Thu May 11 12:56:13 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 19:56:13 +0300 Subject: ANN: new team member In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I doubt that very much. He may be the father (why 'new'; did the baby have a previous father?) of a potential programmer. Either way: congratulations to Ali! Richmond. On 5/11/17 7:51 pm, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > Word from the grapevine is that Ali Lloyd is the new father of a baby > programmer. > From nabble at mad.pink Thu May 11 12:46:52 2017 From: nabble at mad.pink (pink) Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 09:46:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Wouldn't it be nice to have a "back/forward" button in script editor? In-Reply-To: <001801d2ca52$b79d8b10$26d8a130$@kestner.de> References: <001801d2ca52$b79d8b10$26d8a130$@kestner.de> Message-ID: <1494521211703-4714720.post@n4.nabble.com> Have you looked into lcTaskList? I often use it to give myself quick bookmarks/placeholders, so long as you already know where you are going to want to be. It is reasonably priced and tops my listed of recommended plugins. ----- --- Greg (pink) Miller mad, pink and dangerous to code -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Wouldn-t-it-be-nice-to-have-a-back-forward-button-in-script-editor-tp4714700p4714720.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From revdev at pdslabs.net Thu May 11 13:04:21 2017 From: revdev at pdslabs.net (Phil Davis) Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 10:04:21 -0700 Subject: ANN: new team member In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <16aaac1e-bc7b-2abe-0c5a-c5e07a21066a@pdslabs.net> Congratulations Ali! Is there a whisky fund where we can send donations? Phil Davis On 5/11/17 9:51 AM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > Word from the grapevine is that Ali Lloyd is the new father of a baby > programmer. > -- Phil Davis From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu May 11 13:08:49 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 17:08:49 +0000 Subject: ANN: new team member In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Wait! You have to program the babies??? Bob S > On May 11, 2017, at 09:51 , Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > > Word from the grapevine is that Ali Lloyd is the new father of a baby programmer. > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu May 11 13:11:18 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 12:11:18 -0500 Subject: Wouldn't it be nice to have a "back/forward" button in script editor? In-Reply-To: References: <001801d2ca52$b79d8b10$26d8a130$@kestner.de> <15bf84c7cf0.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <15bf87e4af0.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> No. Try it. I use it all the time. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On May 11, 2017 11:23:32 AM Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: > Jacque, are you confusing the dictionary with the script editor? > > > On May 11, 2017 7:17 PM, "J. Landman Gay via use-livecode" < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> I've wanted this for years. There is half a way to do it, but it's very >> limited. Right click on a handler name in calling handler and choose "go to >> definition". It will scroll to the handler in the script or open a new >> script tab if necessary. The orginal start position in the handler list >> remains hilited so you can find it again easily. >> >> But it's far from perfect. If you click anywhere in the new handler, the >> list selection changes. And it only works for one hop. But even that much >> is useful for a quick check on what a particular handler does. >> -- >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >> >> >> >> On May 11, 2017 7:35:41 AM Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >> When working on longer scripts with a lot of handlers, I often work on >>> handler 1 and have to jump to handler 2 to have a look at it. Afterwords I >>> have to go back to my handler 1. Nowadays I have to keep in mind, at which >>> handler I was coming from and click at it in the list of handlers. >>> Wouldn't >>> it be nice, to have a "back" and "forward" button, (like in a browser) to >>> get back to the last visited line (not like in a browser) or again >>> forward, >>> where I 've already been? >>> >>> Am I the only one, working like this, or is it my overflowed brain >>> requesting such a feature? >>> >>> Tiemo >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Thu May 11 13:23:27 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 20:23:27 +0300 Subject: Wouldn't it be nice to have a "back/forward" button in script editor? In-Reply-To: <15bf87e4af0.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <001801d2ca52$b79d8b10$26d8a130$@kestner.de> <15bf84c7cf0.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <15bf87e4af0.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <6a2823bf-1221-60df-70cf-d8d77b2f440e@gmail.com> I will, Thanks. Richmond. On 11.05.2017 20:11, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > No. Try it. I use it all the time. > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > > > On May 11, 2017 11:23:32 AM Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode > wrote: > >> Jacque, are you confusing the dictionary with the script editor? >> >> >> On May 11, 2017 7:17 PM, "J. Landman Gay via use-livecode" < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >>> I've wanted this for years. There is half a way to do it, but it's very >>> limited. Right click on a handler name in calling handler and choose >>> "go to >>> definition". It will scroll to the handler in the script or open a new >>> script tab if necessary. The orginal start position in the handler list >>> remains hilited so you can find it again easily. >>> >>> But it's far from perfect. If you click anywhere in the new handler, >>> the >>> list selection changes. And it only works for one hop. But even that >>> much >>> is useful for a quick check on what a particular handler does. >>> -- >>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >>> >>> >>> >>> On May 11, 2017 7:35:41 AM Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> >>> When working on longer scripts with a lot of handlers, I often work on >>>> handler 1 and have to jump to handler 2 to have a look at it. >>>> Afterwords I >>>> have to go back to my handler 1. Nowadays I have to keep in mind, >>>> at which >>>> handler I was coming from and click at it in the list of handlers. >>>> Wouldn't >>>> it be nice, to have a "back" and "forward" button, (like in a >>>> browser) to >>>> get back to the last visited line (not like in a browser) or again >>>> forward, >>>> where I 've already been? >>>> >>>> Am I the only one, working like this, or is it my overflowed brain >>>> requesting such a feature? >>>> >>>> Tiemo >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Thu May 11 13:25:49 2017 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 13:25:49 -0400 Subject: ANN: new team member In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: on babyStartup set babysFather to "Ali Loyd" -- write to permanent memory if unconditional = true then put "love" into tForeverAndAlways end if end babyStartup On Thu, May 11, 2017 at 1:08 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Wait! You have to program the babies??? > > Bob S > > > > On May 11, 2017, at 09:51 , Mark Wieder via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > Word from the grapevine is that Ali Lloyd is the new father of a baby > programmer. > > > > -- > > Mark Wieder > > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From tore.nilsen at me.com Thu May 11 13:27:14 2017 From: tore.nilsen at me.com (Tore Nilsen) Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 19:27:14 +0200 Subject: ANN: new team member In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2A1B7A89-E6EF-46D4-BD02-12F73C27DFB5@me.com> They come with just the OS, no supporting software is provided. Congratulations to Ali. Hopefully he will find that improving on LiveCode is a good way to make sleepless nights go so much faster. Regards Tore N > 11. mai 2017 kl. 19.08 skrev Bob Sneidar via use-livecode : > > Wait! You have to program the babies??? > > Bob S From jonathandlynch at gmail.com Thu May 11 13:41:45 2017 From: jonathandlynch at gmail.com (jonathandlynch at gmail.com) Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 13:41:45 -0400 Subject: SVG powered images Message-ID: Hi everyone, I just uploaded version 1 of a stack called "SVG Powered Images" onto livecodeshare. Just go to livecodeshare.runrev.com and sort for the newest upload. This stack makes it practical to use fully scalable SVG files in your stack. It is not as good as having a full SVG object, but it is the next best thing. It does use the browser widget, which could be an issue for some situations. Peace, J Sent from my iPhone From capellan2000 at gmail.com Thu May 11 13:52:18 2017 From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada) Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 13:52:18 -0400 Subject: ANN: new team member Message-ID: Congratulations, Ali! :D Blessings and Good Wishes for all in your family! Al From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Thu May 11 14:19:53 2017 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 14:19:53 -0400 Subject: new team member In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <007001d2ca83$300eab80$902c0280$@net> Ali, Congrats!! My best wishes for the new arrival!! Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Mark Wieder via use-livecode Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2017 12:52 PM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: Mark Wieder Subject: ANN: new team member Word from the grapevine is that Ali Lloyd is the new father of a baby programmer. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From iowahengst at mac.com Thu May 11 14:06:25 2017 From: iowahengst at mac.com (Randy Hengst) Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 13:06:25 -0500 Subject: Wouldn't it be nice to have a "back/forward" button in script editor? In-Reply-To: <6a2823bf-1221-60df-70cf-d8d77b2f440e@gmail.com> References: <001801d2ca52$b79d8b10$26d8a130$@kestner.de> <15bf84c7cf0.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <15bf87e4af0.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <6a2823bf-1221-60df-70cf-d8d77b2f440e@gmail.com> Message-ID: I?m a little late to this party, but I?ve thought it would be handy to have a ?sort by most recent? button on the handler list? like in apple mail and desktop folders. be well, randy > On May 11, 2017, at 12:23 PM, Richmond via use-livecode wrote: > > I will, Thanks. > > > Richmond. > > > On 11.05.2017 20:11, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >> No. Try it. I use it all the time. >> -- >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >> >> >> >> On May 11, 2017 11:23:32 AM Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: >> >>> Jacque, are you confusing the dictionary with the script editor? >>> >>> >>> On May 11, 2017 7:17 PM, "J. Landman Gay via use-livecode" < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> >>>> I've wanted this for years. There is half a way to do it, but it's very >>>> limited. Right click on a handler name in calling handler and choose "go to >>>> definition". It will scroll to the handler in the script or open a new >>>> script tab if necessary. The orginal start position in the handler list >>>> remains hilited so you can find it again easily. >>>> >>>> But it's far from perfect. If you click anywhere in the new handler, the >>>> list selection changes. And it only works for one hop. But even that much >>>> is useful for a quick check on what a particular handler does. >>>> -- >>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >>>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On May 11, 2017 7:35:41 AM Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode < >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> When working on longer scripts with a lot of handlers, I often work on >>>>> handler 1 and have to jump to handler 2 to have a look at it. Afterwords I >>>>> have to go back to my handler 1. Nowadays I have to keep in mind, at which >>>>> handler I was coming from and click at it in the list of handlers. >>>>> Wouldn't >>>>> it be nice, to have a "back" and "forward" button, (like in a browser) to >>>>> get back to the last visited line (not like in a browser) or again >>>>> forward, >>>>> where I 've already been? >>>>> >>>>> Am I the only one, working like this, or is it my overflowed brain >>>>> requesting such a feature? >>>>> >>>>> Tiemo >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu May 11 14:51:19 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 11:51:19 -0700 Subject: Wouldn't it be nice to have a "back/forward" button in script editor? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <899bc82e-d55a-9abe-9bf9-5394a3fd0dec@fourthworld.com> Randy Hengst wrote: > I?m a little late to this party, but I?ve thought it would be handy > to have a ?sort by most recent? button on the handler list? like in > apple mail and desktop folders. With all due respect to those who've worked on the SE, the last thing I'd want to see added to is more metadata and the complexity inherent in keeping it up to date. This may be another reason this need is most commonly handled in other editors with a split view. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu May 11 15:06:07 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 14:06:07 -0500 Subject: Wouldn't it be nice to have a "back/forward" button in script editor? In-Reply-To: <8a09a2fd-464c-5027-a91e-6f16b5a31787@fourthworld.com> References: <001801d2ca52$b79d8b10$26d8a130$@kestner.de> <8a09a2fd-464c-5027-a91e-6f16b5a31787@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On 5/11/17 9:45 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > Tiemo Hollmann wrote: > >> When working on longer scripts with a lot of handlers, I often work on >> handler 1 and have to jump to handler 2 to have a look at it. >> Afterwords I have to go back to my handler 1. Nowadays I have to keep >> in mind, at which handler I was coming from and click at it in the >> list of handlers. Wouldn't it be nice, to have a "back" and "forward" >> button, (like in a browser) to get back to the last visited line (not >> like in a browser) or again forward, where I 've already been? > > Isn't that the use-case that in other editors is supported with split > views? > That would be really good for editing, but back/forward is better for tracing script flow which is mostly what I want it for. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu May 11 15:09:32 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 12:09:32 -0700 Subject: Wouldn't it be nice to have a "back/forward" button in script editor? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: J. Landman Gay wrote: > On 5/11/17 9:45 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Isn't that the use-case that in other editors is supported with split >> views? > > That would be really good for editing, but back/forward is better for > tracing script flow which is mostly what I want it for. Yes, that's what I'm thinking of: what could be better than jumping back and forth than not having to jump at all? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu May 11 15:10:21 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 14:10:21 -0500 Subject: ANN: new team member In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4079390d-ba65-eb49-9bad-08f0724913f6@hyperactivesw.com> On 5/11/17 11:51 AM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > Word from the grapevine is that Ali Lloyd is the new father of a baby > programmer. > Ali, congats to you and your wife! In case you find yourself a bit overwhelmed with the new arrival, I offer some humble child-rearing tips you might find useful: -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From ahsoftware at sonic.net Thu May 11 15:14:39 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 12:14:39 -0700 Subject: ANN: new team member In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7322fe96-9d56-4172-9124-887fd5215605@sonic.net> On 05/11/2017 09:56 AM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: > He may be the father (why 'new'; did the baby have a previous father?) Fathers are always previous to babies. > of a potential programmer. Potential comes pre-programmed. To make it kinetic you have to add work. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu May 11 15:18:22 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 14:18:22 -0500 Subject: Wouldn't it be nice to have a "back/forward" button in script editor? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 5/11/17 2:09 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > J. Landman Gay wrote: >> On 5/11/17 9:45 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> Isn't that the use-case that in other editors is supported with split >>> views? >> >> That would be really good for editing, but back/forward is better for >> tracing script flow which is mostly what I want it for. > > Yes, that's what I'm thinking of: what could be better than jumping back > and forth than not having to jump at all? > Well, I don't usually jump only once. If I do, I just use the built-in trick I described. But what I usually need to do is follow script flow from one handler to the one that called it, to the one that called that, the back to the second one until I see another reference, then jump to that one, see what it does, then back to the first one, then on to another one. How many split windows would that take? -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From revdev at pdslabs.net Thu May 11 15:30:55 2017 From: revdev at pdslabs.net (Phil Davis) Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 12:30:55 -0700 Subject: Wouldn't it be nice to have a "back/forward" button in script editor? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8296b41e-6957-5a3d-000d-8bf3e716fd77@pdslabs.net> Maybe show something like the executionContexts as a list in a palette, and be able to go back and forth to the referenced lines by clicking the lines? Phil Davis On 5/11/17 12:18 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > On 5/11/17 2:09 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: >> J. Landman Gay wrote: >>> On 5/11/17 9:45 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: >>>> >>>> Isn't that the use-case that in other editors is supported with split >>>> views? >>> >>> That would be really good for editing, but back/forward is better for >>> tracing script flow which is mostly what I want it for. >> >> Yes, that's what I'm thinking of: what could be better than jumping back >> and forth than not having to jump at all? >> > > Well, I don't usually jump only once. If I do, I just use the built-in > trick I described. But what I usually need to do is follow script flow > from one handler to the one that called it, to the one that called > that, the back to the second one until I see another reference, then > jump to that one, see what it does, then back to the first one, then > on to another one. > > How many split windows would that take? > -- Phil Davis From dochawk at gmail.com Thu May 11 15:45:35 2017 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 12:45:35 -0700 Subject: ANN: new team member In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, May 11, 2017 at 10:25 AM, Roger Eller via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > on babyStartup > set babysFather to "Ali Loyd" > -- write to permanent memory > if unconditional = true then > put "love" into tForeverAndAlways > end if > end babyStartup > on sleep do 15 or 20 minutes a night awe, who are we kidding wait three months with messages end attempt to sleep :) congratulations. We found that at about 10 lbs, they hold enough food to sleep through the night. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From capellan2000 at gmail.com Thu May 11 16:32:05 2017 From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada) Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 16:32:05 -0400 Subject: SVG powered images Message-ID: Hi Jonathan, This stack opens up a lot of new possibilities. Many thanks again for sharing! :D http://livecodeshare.runrev.com/stack/830/SVG-Powered-Images If we modify SVG file on the custom property mysvgdata Does images updates automatically? How could we load an animated svg and play it, frame by frame, using the png image? For example, this Mechanical Gears animation: https://openclipart.org/download/228417/gear-anim.svg Thanks in advance for your answers and Keep Up this Great Work! :D Al From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu May 11 17:03:47 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 14:03:47 -0700 Subject: Wouldn't it be nice to have a "back/forward" button in script editor? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: J. Landman Gay wrote: > Well, I don't usually jump only once. If I do, I just use the > built-in trick I described. But what I usually need to do is follow > script flow from one handler to the one that called it, to the one > that called that, the back to the second one until I see another > reference, then jump to that one, see what it does, then back to the > first one, then on to another one. Yes, quite different from the original problem statement, and more reflective of my own needs as well. Right now I make liberal use of the "Lookup Definition" item in the context menu, but that only goes one way. I once considered making a static analysis tool that would provide a list of handlers with specific line numbers for a flow of execution. Not surprisingly, I also decided the time it would take to do that would exceed the time it would save me. :) -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From hh at hyperhh.de Thu May 11 17:12:46 2017 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 23:12:46 +0200 Subject: SVG powered images Message-ID: <297BCCDE-6255-4829-A415-DB2E37929D9A@hyperhh.de> Jonathan, nice idea and clever work, congratulations. Two remarks: (1) Actually the svg-to-png conversion method toDataUrl() yields at most a 96 dpi image. So, if you scale the svg once to an image of twice the maximum size you will need, then set the resizequality of that image to "best" and scale it down _with LC_ to the size you actually need, you may have better results on some devices. (2) You speak in your help of a "peculiar bug". It is not a bug. It is a first look at the js "callback hell": The call of "liveCode.JStoLC(myImage,tID);" in your html comes too early. The second call then shows the result of meanwhile finished first call. Hermann From jonathandlynch at gmail.com Thu May 11 17:25:42 2017 From: jonathandlynch at gmail.com (jonathandlynch at gmail.com) Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 17:25:42 -0400 Subject: SVG powered images In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2B5ACE7D-614D-4C19-A09C-AF1975BFC93A@gmail.com> Thanks Ajelandro, I have thought a bit about how to show a browser animation through an image object. I think it can be done, but might use a lot of processing power. Could be really cool with webgl animations. Sent from my iPhone > On May 11, 2017, at 4:32 PM, Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi Jonathan, > > This stack opens up a lot of new possibilities. > Many thanks again for sharing! :D > http://livecodeshare.runrev.com/stack/830/SVG-Powered-Images > > If we modify SVG file on the custom property mysvgdata > Does images updates automatically? > > How could we load an animated svg and play it, > frame by frame, using the png image? > For example, this Mechanical Gears animation: > https://openclipart.org/download/228417/gear-anim.svg > > Thanks in advance for your answers and > Keep Up this Great Work! :D > > Al > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jonathandlynch at gmail.com Thu May 11 17:31:08 2017 From: jonathandlynch at gmail.com (jonathandlynch at gmail.com) Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 17:31:08 -0400 Subject: SVG powered images In-Reply-To: <2B5ACE7D-614D-4C19-A09C-AF1975BFC93A@gmail.com> References: <2B5ACE7D-614D-4C19-A09C-AF1975BFC93A@gmail.com> Message-ID: <87E48689-64D3-4CBE-ADF5-224713CBD438@gmail.com> Thanks Hermann If it were from that, then we could not switch back and forth between resizing different images. It would show the output of the previous image processed. But that does not happen. I thought I chained the commands linearly, but I will check that again. Sent from my iPhone > On May 11, 2017, at 5:25 PM, jonathandlynch at gmail.com wrote: > > Thanks Ajelandro, > > I have thought a bit about how to show a browser animation through an image object. > > I think it can be done, but might use a lot of processing power. > > Could be really cool with webgl animations. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On May 11, 2017, at 4:32 PM, Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Hi Jonathan, >> >> This stack opens up a lot of new possibilities. >> Many thanks again for sharing! :D >> http://livecodeshare.runrev.com/stack/830/SVG-Powered-Images >> >> If we modify SVG file on the custom property mysvgdata >> Does images updates automatically? >> >> How could we load an animated svg and play it, >> frame by frame, using the png image? >> For example, this Mechanical Gears animation: >> https://openclipart.org/download/228417/gear-anim.svg >> >> Thanks in advance for your answers and >> Keep Up this Great Work! :D >> >> Al >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From hh at hyperhh.de Thu May 11 17:52:01 2017 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 23:52:01 +0200 Subject: SVG powered images Message-ID: <17A11D3F-1687-409B-BD91-1111CE646217@hyperhh.de> > JL wrote: > If it were from that, then we could not switch back and forth > between resizing different images. It would show the output of > the previous image processed. But that does not happen. > I thought I chained the commands linearly, but I will check > that again. I didn't say the second call shows the result from the _previous_ call, I said it shows the result from the meanwhile finished _first_ call (with that svg data, that is thereafter cached). From jonathandlynch at gmail.com Thu May 11 17:59:39 2017 From: jonathandlynch at gmail.com (jonathandlynch at gmail.com) Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 17:59:39 -0400 Subject: SVG powered images In-Reply-To: <17A11D3F-1687-409B-BD91-1111CE646217@hyperhh.de> References: <17A11D3F-1687-409B-BD91-1111CE646217@hyperhh.de> Message-ID: <88449DFA-920C-498E-B6D1-4791AB4C83CB@gmail.com> Ah Yes - the svg data is cached. That would explain why it must happen for every image. Thanks Hermann. I will tinker some more. Sent from my iPhone On May 11, 2017, at 5:52 PM, hh via use-livecode wrote: >> JL wrote: >> If it were from that, then we could not switch back and forth >> between resizing different images. It would show the output of >> the previous image processed. But that does not happen. >> I thought I chained the commands linearly, but I will check >> that again. > > I didn't say the second call shows the result from the _previous_ call, > I said it shows the result from the meanwhile finished _first_ call > (with that svg data, that is thereafter cached). > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jonathandlynch at gmail.com Thu May 11 18:09:03 2017 From: jonathandlynch at gmail.com (jonathandlynch at gmail.com) Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 18:09:03 -0400 Subject: SVG powered images In-Reply-To: <88449DFA-920C-498E-B6D1-4791AB4C83CB@gmail.com> References: <17A11D3F-1687-409B-BD91-1111CE646217@hyperhh.de> <88449DFA-920C-498E-B6D1-4791AB4C83CB@gmail.com> Message-ID: <24A384CF-4D02-4BC4-877B-D56BC21E91D3@gmail.com> Did some more research. Yup - the image renders in the canvas asynchronously. So, on first load it is exporting the canvas image before that image is rendered. Going to see if I can add an event handler that is triggered when the canvas is finished. Thanks for the tip :) Sent from my iPhone > On May 11, 2017, at 5:59 PM, jonathandlynch at gmail.com wrote: > > Ah > > Yes - the svg data is cached. > > That would explain why it must happen for every image. > > Thanks Hermann. > > I will tinker some more. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 11, 2017, at 5:52 PM, hh via use-livecode wrote: > >>> JL wrote: >>> If it were from that, then we could not switch back and forth >>> between resizing different images. It would show the output of >>> the previous image processed. But that does not happen. >>> I thought I chained the commands linearly, but I will check >>> that again. >> >> I didn't say the second call shows the result from the _previous_ call, >> I said it shows the result from the meanwhile finished _first_ call >> (with that svg data, that is thereafter cached). >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From monte at appisle.net Thu May 11 18:48:51 2017 From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding) Date: Fri, 12 May 2017 08:48:51 +1000 Subject: Wouldn't it be nice to have a "back/forward" button in script editor? In-Reply-To: <001801d2ca52$b79d8b10$26d8a130$@kestner.de> References: <001801d2ca52$b79d8b10$26d8a130$@kestner.de> Message-ID: > On 11 May 2017, at 10:32 pm, Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode wrote: > > Am I the only one, working like this, or is it my overflowed brain > requesting such a feature? I have wanted something like this for a while. Xcode has it and I use it all the time. But I think "go to definition" creating a breadcrumb would also be handy. There?s lots of things that would be handy? complete project tree in the script editor for one. Cheers Monte From hh at hyperhh.de Thu May 11 19:24:27 2017 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Fri, 12 May 2017 01:24:27 +0200 Subject: SVG powered images Message-ID: <99F53C9E-7BA9-48E8-9044-C94A71C0B5DE@hyperhh.de> You could try to leave out the "liveCode.JStoLC" from the html. Instead send the conversion 'delayed", 1 tick should be enough: local svgb="SVGBrowser1" send "processSVG tID" to widget svgb put "var dd=document.getElementById('canvas1');" & \ "liveCode.JStoLC(dd.toDataURL(),tID)") into js send "do js in widget svgb" to me in 1 tick From capellan2000 at gmail.com Thu May 11 21:31:47 2017 From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada) Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 21:31:47 -0400 Subject: SVG powered images Message-ID: Hi Hermann, I tried to apply your script, but just get an error. Surely, it's because I do follow correctly your instructions: > You could try to leave out the "liveCode.JStoLC" from the html. > Instead send the conversion 'delayed", 1 tick should be enough: local svgb="SVGBrowser1" send "processSVG tID" to widget svgb put "var dd=document.getElementById('canvas1');" & \ "liveCode.JStoLC(dd.toDataURL(),tID)") into js send "do js in widget svgb" to me in 1 tick By the way, open and resize an animated SVG like this: https://openclipart.org/download/188969/WalkingMan.svg Notice how it changes to different animation frames each time that you resize the image. :D Al From capellan2000 at gmail.com Thu May 11 21:38:15 2017 From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada) Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 21:38:15 -0400 Subject: SVG powered images Message-ID: My mistake, that previous message should read: I tried to apply your script, but just get an error. Surely, it's because I do NOT followed correctly your instructions On Thu, May 11, 2017 at 9:31 PM, Alejandro Tejada wrote: > Hi Hermann, > > I tried to apply your script, but just get an error. > Surely, it's because I do follow correctly > your instructions: > > > You could try to leave out the "liveCode.JStoLC" from the html. > > Instead send the conversion 'delayed", 1 tick should be enough: > local svgb="SVGBrowser1" > send "processSVG tID" to widget svgb > put "var dd=document.getElementById('canvas1');" & \ > "liveCode.JStoLC(dd.toDataURL(),tID)") into js > send "do js in widget svgb" to me in 1 tick > > By the way, open and resize an animated SVG like this: > https://openclipart.org/download/188969/WalkingMan.svg > > Notice how it changes to different animation frames > each time that you resize the image. :D > > Al > From jonathandlynch at gmail.com Thu May 11 21:48:17 2017 From: jonathandlynch at gmail.com (jonathandlynch at gmail.com) Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 21:48:17 -0400 Subject: SVG powered images In-Reply-To: <99F53C9E-7BA9-48E8-9044-C94A71C0B5DE@hyperhh.de> References: <99F53C9E-7BA9-48E8-9044-C94A71C0B5DE@hyperhh.de> Message-ID: I tried splitting up the chain like this. Even sending in 10 milliseconds did not work. The best test is to close LiveCode then open it back up and run the stack. If resizing one of the images works the first time, then it is good. However, delaying the command to send for the image does not work for the first resizing of the image in this scenario. The way it is posted right now seems to work fine. I am going to leave it that way for now, while I try to find a way to detect when the canvas is fully rendered in JavaScript. Sent from my iPhone > On May 11, 2017, at 7:24 PM, hh via use-livecode wrote: > > You could try to leave out the "liveCode.JStoLC" from the html. > Instead send the conversion 'delayed", 1 tick should be enough: > > local svgb="SVGBrowser1" > send "processSVG tID" to widget svgb > put "var dd=document.getElementById('canvas1');" & \ > "liveCode.JStoLC(dd.toDataURL(),tID)") into js > send "do js in widget svgb" to me in 1 tick > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jonathandlynch at gmail.com Thu May 11 21:50:37 2017 From: jonathandlynch at gmail.com (jonathandlynch at gmail.com) Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 21:50:37 -0400 Subject: SVG powered images In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: To do an animation it would need a continuous but interruptible callback loop - with delayed sending for the next iteration after the previous iteration has finished. I think it is doable. Sent from my iPhone > On May 11, 2017, at 9:31 PM, Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi Hermann, > > I tried to apply your script, but just get an error. > Surely, it's because I do follow correctly > your instructions: > >> You could try to leave out the "liveCode.JStoLC" from the html. >> Instead send the conversion 'delayed", 1 tick should be enough: > local svgb="SVGBrowser1" > send "processSVG tID" to widget svgb > put "var dd=document.getElementById('canvas1');" & \ > "liveCode.JStoLC(dd.toDataURL(),tID)") into js > send "do js in widget svgb" to me in 1 tick > > By the way, open and resize an animated SVG like this: > https://openclipart.org/download/188969/WalkingMan.svg > > Notice how it changes to different animation frames > each time that you resize the image. :D > > Al > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From capellan2000 at gmail.com Thu May 11 22:15:57 2017 From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada) Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 22:15:57 -0400 Subject: SVG powered images Message-ID: This mousedown script shows a rough preview of the SVG animation if you put it into the image: on mousedown put the id of me into tID repeat while the mouse is down send "processSVG tID" to widget "SVGBrowser1" end repeat end mousedown Al From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Fri May 12 02:12:50 2017 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Fri, 12 May 2017 16:12:50 +1000 Subject: ANN: new team member In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, May 12, 2017 at 5:45 AM, Dr. Hawkins via use-livecode wrote: > > We found that at about 10 lbs, they hold enough food to sleep through the > night. > ...oh, so that why this lady waited for hers to be 16lb 4 oz: http://now100fm.cbslocal.com/2017/05/10/woman-gives-birth-to-16-pound-baby-pics/ Is there any chance the hospital uses gitbub; maybe you can push your current repo of baby and pull it once it hit's the 10lb milestone ;-) Ali, congrats to you and your wife. From th.douez at gmail.com Fri May 12 03:08:43 2017 From: th.douez at gmail.com (Thierry Douez) Date: Fri, 12 May 2017 09:08:43 +0200 Subject: filter? replace? wildcard? reg exp? help please! In-Reply-To: <57ced69a-18ee-4d50-55ce-66055b95ffb6@hyperactivesw.com> References: <20c85163-01cf-baec-af46-b725f6bf724d@hyperactivesw.com> <57ced69a-18ee-4d50-55ce-66055b95ffb6@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: ?Hi, > > function removeBrackets pString > return replacetext(pString,"\[.*\]",empty) > end removeBrackets > > ?? What would be the result of next line:? *put* removeBrackets ?( ? "1 [A] 2 [B] 3." ?) Kind regards, Thierry ? ------------------------------------------------ Thierry Douez - sunny-tdz.com sunnYrex - sunnYtext2speech - sunnYperl - sunnYmidi - sunnYmage From ali.lloyd at livecode.com Fri May 12 04:59:05 2017 From: ali.lloyd at livecode.com (Ali Lloyd) Date: Fri, 12 May 2017 08:59:05 +0000 Subject: ANN: new team member In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks all! He's almost 10lb already, but still no sign of sleeping 4 hours let alone through the night ;-) On Fri, May 12, 2017 at 7:12 AM Kay C Lan via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On Fri, May 12, 2017 at 5:45 AM, Dr. Hawkins via use-livecode > wrote: > > > > We found that at about 10 lbs, they hold enough food to sleep through the > > night. > > > ...oh, so that why this lady waited for hers to be 16lb 4 oz: > > http://now100fm.cbslocal.com/2017/05/10/woman-gives-birth-to-16-pound-baby-pics/ > > Is there any chance the hospital uses gitbub; maybe you can push your > current repo of baby and pull it once it hit's the 10lb milestone ;-) > > Ali, congrats to you and your wife. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From livfoss at mac.com Fri May 12 05:02:42 2017 From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel) Date: Fri, 12 May 2017 11:02:42 +0200 Subject: ANN: new team member In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Just to add my congrats! Life will never be the same? but it will be better! Graham > On 11 May 2017, at 18:51, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > > Word from the grapevine is that Ali Lloyd is the new father of a baby programmer. > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From livfoss at mac.com Fri May 12 05:20:30 2017 From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel) Date: Fri, 12 May 2017 11:20:30 +0200 Subject: Update strategy? In-Reply-To: References: <440AB913-1A0E-4580-A08F-FA1AAB083395@mac.com> <555d13a0-ae67-b562-cd3c-ca06ed1fd5b8@researchware.com> <99C4FDA5-7684-408F-8F30-3C47769B0EFE@mac.com> <922d9117-7339-9a52-2441-731f2751d94f@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Thanks again Jacque Yes, I see the wisdom of that - your method also avoids the issue of launching a completely automatic update without giving the user an opportunity to refuse. So you just get the user to run the installer, the same way as Tiemo does - is that right? Obviously one wants the update to be as user-friendly as possible. Can the installer (on Mac and Windows) simply clear out the old version without asking for permission? This is desirable from an ease-of-use standpoint. Presumably also if registration has already taken place, the record of that will still be stored in the local prefs file or wherever, so the user won?t have to re-insert the registration key. Still trying to get it exactly right. Graham > On 10 May 2017, at 22:11, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > > On 5/10/17 1:00 PM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode wrote: >> Yes, but what if you want to update the launcher itself? Maybe I have >> made my ?splash? stack too rich in function, but I can easily see it >> needing revision. Because of this, I?m thinking of altering the >> structure of the app so that the update code is more or less all that >> is in the standalone recognised by the operating system, and all >> other stacks (including 90 percent of the original splash stack) are >> simply downloaded after the decision whether to update is made. Or is >> this stupid? > > No, it's smart. The launcher should be the barest minimum required to get the rest of the data/stacks/whatever to load. That way there is rarely a need to update. > > I've generally taken the easy way out. If I do need to update the launcher itself, it asks the user if they want to update and then launches a URL to a web page that has the download. I figure if the user could get it installed the first time, they can install the update. That's lazy on my part, but so far there haven't been many issues with it. > > That's for desktop only. On mobile it's easy to let the OS do the updating. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From hh at hyperhh.de Fri May 12 05:24:40 2017 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Fri, 12 May 2017 11:24:40 +0200 Subject: SVG powered images Message-ID: > Jonathan L. wrote: > However, delaying the command to send for the image does not work > for the first resizing of the image in this scenario. It works. I have it running here with the browser widget. I finally got it using an "onload" for the image and for the window. ... image1.onload = function() { ctx.drawImage(image1,0,0,twidth,theight); } ... window.onload=processsvg(twidth,theight,tID); After that sending toDataURL() to the canvas delayed by 1 tick has here no misfunction. I wrote it also for a revBrowserInstance what can be used in LC 6/7/8/9 but on Mac only, because linux has no revBroser working and windows only one that doesn't support Canvas2d. This is essentially the same technique (but doesn't use a javascriptHandler). I put this LC 6/7/8/9 version on livecodeshare/"sample stacks" so that your browser widget version is still unique ... I have also a fast method, runs with 30 fps, for taking PNG-frames from a video, so that converting an SVG animation to PNGs is no problem (though I can't see any sense in doing that). From klaus at major-k.de Fri May 12 05:27:30 2017 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Fri, 12 May 2017 11:27:30 +0200 Subject: SVG powered images In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Al, > Am 12.05.2017 um 03:31 schrieb Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode : > > ... > By the way, open and resize an animated SVG like this: > https://openclipart.org/download/188969/WalkingMan.svg > > Notice how it changes to different animation frames > each time that you resize the image. :D not when viewed in Safari on a Mac! > Al Best Klaus -- Klaus Major http://www.major-k.de klaus at major-k.de From nabble at mad.pink Fri May 12 07:00:22 2017 From: nabble at mad.pink (pink) Date: Fri, 12 May 2017 04:00:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: ANN: new team member In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1494586822427-4714761.post@n4.nabble.com> Well congrats Ali... remember to keep the firmware up to date and just to warn you, there are no breakpoints ----- --- Greg (pink) Miller mad, pink and dangerous to code -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/ANN-new-team-member-tp4714718p4714761.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From iphonelagi at gmail.com Fri May 12 08:10:48 2017 From: iphonelagi at gmail.com (Lagi Pittas) Date: Fri, 12 May 2017 13:10:48 +0100 Subject: ANN: new team member In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Congratulations and Eudemonia to you all Ali. Now let's see if I can use Computer metaphors,puns and word play with the rest of them ... Now the real "Programming" starts with a Finite State Ali-Gata which is a child Object Instantiation of the Parent Class. Set the garbage collector to automatic because there will be a lot of mutable objects in the FIFO. But more to the point have you bought him a Raspberry Pi yet and will this mean version nine will be compiled for the Pi soon? Congrats again Ali Children - and Grand Children are what makes life living (and interesting!!). On 12 May 2017 at 09:59, Ali Lloyd via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Thanks all! He's almost 10lb already, but still no sign of sleeping 4 hours > let alone through the night ;-) > > On Fri, May 12, 2017 at 7:12 AM Kay C Lan via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > On Fri, May 12, 2017 at 5:45 AM, Dr. Hawkins via use-livecode > > wrote: > > > > > > We found that at about 10 lbs, they hold enough food to sleep through > the > > > night. > > > > > ...oh, so that why this lady waited for hers to be 16lb 4 oz: > > > > http://now100fm.cbslocal.com/2017/05/10/woman-gives-birth- > to-16-pound-baby-pics/ > > > > Is there any chance the hospital uses gitbub; maybe you can push your > > current repo of baby and pull it once it hit's the 10lb milestone ;-) > > > > Ali, congrats to you and your wife. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From livfoss at mac.com Fri May 12 08:31:26 2017 From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel) Date: Fri, 12 May 2017 14:31:26 +0200 Subject: Dictionary entry for 'answer' - something missing? Message-ID: Maybe I don?t understand how to access the LC Dictionary in 8.1.4 rc 1, but when I look up ?answer? I miss the plain vanilla version, as in answer question ?Do you agree?? with ?Yes? or ?No? titled ?Make a Decision!? This does work from the message box. Can anyone find this definition? If not, it?s a bug, I think. TIA Graham From jonathandlynch at gmail.com Fri May 12 08:40:09 2017 From: jonathandlynch at gmail.com (jonathandlynch at gmail.com) Date: Fri, 12 May 2017 08:40:09 -0400 Subject: SVG powered images In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <12BBBB26-65FF-4238-B5F9-BC6CDC01A746@gmail.com> How does it look? Sent from my iPhone > On May 11, 2017, at 10:15 PM, Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode wrote: > > This mousedown script shows a rough preview > of the SVG animation if you put it into the image: > > on mousedown > put the id of me into tID > repeat while the mouse is down > send "processSVG tID" to widget "SVGBrowser1" > end repeat > end mousedown > > Al > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jonathandlynch at gmail.com Fri May 12 08:40:15 2017 From: jonathandlynch at gmail.com (jonathandlynch at gmail.com) Date: Fri, 12 May 2017 08:40:15 -0400 Subject: SVG powered images In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <374AC090-88FD-47E5-AE76-64B44CE401B8@gmail.com> Hey guys - I figured out a solution for that bug I had previously written a hack for. I use the image.onload handler in the JavaScript for this. It works consistently now. I just had to get my order of events correct in the JavaScript. So please check out the new version. J Sent from my iPhone > On May 11, 2017, at 10:15 PM, Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode wrote: > > This mousedown script shows a rough preview > of the SVG animation if you put it into the image: > > on mousedown > put the id of me into tID > repeat while the mouse is down > send "processSVG tID" to widget "SVGBrowser1" > end repeat > end mousedown > > Al > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From merakosp at gmail.com Fri May 12 08:42:53 2017 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Fri, 12 May 2017 13:42:53 +0100 Subject: Dictionary entry for 'answer' - something missing? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Graham, If you search for "answer", the 9th result in the list is what you are looking for: answer [iconType] prompt [with button1 [or buttons]] [titled windowTitle] [ as sheet] Tested in 8.1.4 RC1 Indy. Best, Panos -- On Fri, May 12, 2017 at 1:31 PM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Maybe I don?t understand how to access the LC Dictionary in 8.1.4 rc 1, > but when I look up ?answer? I miss the plain vanilla version, as in > > answer question ?Do you agree?? with ?Yes? or ?No? titled ?Make a > Decision!? > > This does work from the message box. > > Can anyone find this definition? If not, it?s a bug, I think. > > TIA > > Graham > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jonathandlynch at gmail.com Fri May 12 08:44:20 2017 From: jonathandlynch at gmail.com (jonathandlynch at gmail.com) Date: Fri, 12 May 2017 08:44:20 -0400 Subject: SVG powered images In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Hermann - I just got this message - I arrived at the same onload conclusion. I get it now, but the way the JavaScript had to be ordered seemed counterintuitive at first. Thanks for your help on this :) Sent from my iPhone On May 12, 2017, at 5:24 AM, hh via use-livecode wrote: >> Jonathan L. wrote: >> However, delaying the command to send for the image does not work >> for the first resizing of the image in this scenario. > > It works. I have it running here with the browser widget. I finally > got it using an "onload" for the image and for the window. > > ... > image1.onload = function() { > ctx.drawImage(image1,0,0,twidth,theight); > } > ... > window.onload=processsvg(twidth,theight,tID); > > After that sending toDataURL() to the canvas delayed by 1 tick has here > no misfunction. > > I wrote it also for a revBrowserInstance what can be used in LC 6/7/8/9 > but on Mac only, because linux has no revBroser working and windows only > one that doesn't support Canvas2d. This is essentially the same technique > (but doesn't use a javascriptHandler). > > I put this LC 6/7/8/9 version on livecodeshare/"sample stacks" so that > your browser widget version is still unique ... > > I have also a fast method, runs with 30 fps, for taking PNG-frames from a > video, so that converting an SVG animation to PNGs is no problem (though > I can't see any sense in doing that). > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From livfoss at mac.com Fri May 12 08:50:33 2017 From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel) Date: Fri, 12 May 2017 14:50:33 +0200 Subject: Dictionary entry for 'answer' - something missing? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <83208182-80FA-4AB3-859F-C086A7A7F825@mac.com> Thanks Panos - on the Mac, it is not immediately obvious that the panel showing the different types of ?answer? is a scrolling list! My error, but I am probably not the only one likely to make it! Cheers Graham > On 12 May 2017, at 14:42, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi Graham, > > If you search for "answer", the 9th result in the list is what you are > looking for: > > answer [iconType] prompt [with button1 [or buttons]] [titled windowTitle] [ > as sheet] > > Tested in 8.1.4 RC1 Indy. > > Best, > Panos > -- > > On Fri, May 12, 2017 at 1:31 PM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> Maybe I don?t understand how to access the LC Dictionary in 8.1.4 rc 1, >> but when I look up ?answer? I miss the plain vanilla version, as in >> >> answer question ?Do you agree?? with ?Yes? or ?No? titled ?Make a >> Decision!? >> >> This does work from the message box. >> >> Can anyone find this definition? If not, it?s a bug, I think. >> >> TIA >> >> Graham >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From toolbook at kestner.de Fri May 12 09:22:01 2017 From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB) Date: Fri, 12 May 2017 15:22:01 +0200 Subject: AW: Update strategy? In-Reply-To: References: <440AB913-1A0E-4580-A08F-FA1AAB083395@mac.com> <555d13a0-ae67-b562-cd3c-ca06ed1fd5b8@researchware.com> <99C4FDA5-7684-408F-8F30-3C47769B0EFE@mac.com> <922d9117-7339-9a52-2441-731f2751d94f@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <00d101d2cb22$bdd141e0$3973c5a0$@kestner.de> I have codesigned my installers for Mac and Win, so that there are no additional security alerts and user request. If the installer is launched as an Admin (what I can require for with my innosetup installer for Win, on Mac I can't require, but most Mac users have admin rights), it replaces everything existing (except of my registration file at another location) without additional requests. Tiemo -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag von Graham Samuel via use-livecode Gesendet: Freitag, 12. Mai 2017 11:21 An: How to use LiveCode Cc: Graham Samuel Betreff: Re: Update strategy? Thanks again Jacque Yes, I see the wisdom of that - your method also avoids the issue of launching a completely automatic update without giving the user an opportunity to refuse. So you just get the user to run the installer, the same way as Tiemo does - is that right? Obviously one wants the update to be as user-friendly as possible. Can the installer (on Mac and Windows) simply clear out the old version without asking for permission? This is desirable from an ease-of-use standpoint. Presumably also if registration has already taken place, the record of that will still be stored in the local prefs file or wherever, so the user won?t have to re-insert the registration key. Still trying to get it exactly right. Graham > On 10 May 2017, at 22:11, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > > On 5/10/17 1:00 PM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode wrote: >> Yes, but what if you want to update the launcher itself? Maybe I have >> made my ?splash? stack too rich in function, but I can easily see it >> needing revision. Because of this, I?m thinking of altering the >> structure of the app so that the update code is more or less all that >> is in the standalone recognised by the operating system, and all >> other stacks (including 90 percent of the original splash stack) are >> simply downloaded after the decision whether to update is made. Or is >> this stupid? > > No, it's smart. The launcher should be the barest minimum required to get the rest of the data/stacks/whatever to load. That way there is rarely a need to update. > > I've generally taken the easy way out. If I do need to update the launcher itself, it asks the user if they want to update and then launches a URL to a web page that has the download. I figure if the user could get it installed the first time, they can install the update. That's lazy on my part, but so far there haven't been many issues with it. > > That's for desktop only. On mobile it's easy to let the OS do the updating. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dan at clearvisiontech.com Fri May 12 10:44:02 2017 From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman) Date: Fri, 12 May 2017 14:44:02 +0000 Subject: Android Setup Config Message-ID: <80C7F5E5-F5C2-4090-88EC-87D7A2FB737A@clearvisiontech.com> Does anyone know the proper configuration for building an Android standalone on a Mac? When I build the app, I get this: ?There was an error while saving the standalone application could not encode class bundle? I followed the directions from this page (updated just a week ago): http://lessons.livecode.com/m/2571/l/27389-how-do-i-become-an-android-developer-on-a-mac But, I still get the same error. The instructions say to get and install the latest versions of both Android SDK and Java SDK. The instructions then go on to say that you can?t use the latest version of the Android SDK Tools, you have to use version 24.4.1. This version is not available in Android Studio nor is it posted (that I could find) on the android website. I did eventually find and download it. But, what do you do with it? After unzipping in, you have a new ?Tools? folder. I replaced the existing Tools folder at /Users/myComputer/Library/Android/sdk/ and restarted. But, that didn?t seem to solve anything. Now LiveCode no longer recognizes the ?android-sdk-mac_x86? folder as a valid Android SDK. UG! This will be day 3 trying to get an Android App Built! MacOSX 10.12.2 LiveCode 8.1.3 Android SKD Manager ? Revision 24.4.1 Java Version 8 Update 111 ANY assistance or knowledge you have would be greatly appreciated! -Dan From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri May 12 10:46:14 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 12 May 2017 14:46:14 +0000 Subject: ANN: new team member In-Reply-To: <1494586822427-4714761.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1494586822427-4714761.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: Not exactly true. You *can* set breakpoints, but the engine simply ignores them. Bob S > On May 12, 2017, at 04:00 , pink via use-livecode wrote: > > Well congrats Ali... remember to keep the firmware up to date and just to > warn you, there are no breakpoints From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Fri May 12 11:52:40 2017 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Fri, 12 May 2017 11:52:40 -0400 Subject: Wouldn't it be nice to have a "back/forward" button in script editor? In-Reply-To: References: <001801d2ca52$b79d8b10$26d8a130$@kestner.de> Message-ID: Might this be a reason to think about working tighter integration between LC and some other text editor? Then the TE can do what TE's do best, and LC can worry less about adding TE features. OR, what about taking one of the OSS TE's and working on integrating them into LC, eventually removing the SE as a separate codebase? On Thu, May 11, 2017 at 6:48 PM, Monte Goulding via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > On 11 May 2017, at 10:32 pm, Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > Am I the only one, working like this, or is it my overflowed brain > > requesting such a feature? > > I have wanted something like this for a while. Xcode has it and I use it > all the time. But I think "go to definition" creating a breadcrumb would > also be handy. There?s lots of things that would be handy? complete project > tree in the script editor for one. > > Cheers > > Monte > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From devin_asay at byu.edu Fri May 12 11:54:55 2017 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Fri, 12 May 2017 15:54:55 +0000 Subject: ANN: new team member In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0B89338B-89B7-4DD8-BA3D-D76232E75DE5@byu.edu> Congratulations, Ali! RE a new future programmer. As they say out here in the wild, wild west (paraphrased): Mommas, don?t let your babies grow up to be coders, Don?t let ?em parse text files and wade through old cruft, Let ?em be doctors and lawyers and such. Apologies to Ed Bruce and Waylon Jennings. Devin > On May 11, 2017, at 10:51 AM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > > Word from the grapevine is that Ali Lloyd is the new father of a baby programmer. > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode Devin Asay Director Office of Digital Humanities Brigham Young University From merakosp at gmail.com Fri May 12 11:57:41 2017 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Fri, 12 May 2017 16:57:41 +0100 Subject: Android Setup Config In-Reply-To: <80C7F5E5-F5C2-4090-88EC-87D7A2FB737A@clearvisiontech.com> References: <80C7F5E5-F5C2-4090-88EC-87D7A2FB737A@clearvisiontech.com> Message-ID: Hi Dan, 1. Download version 24.4.1 and unzip it. 2. This only includes a "tools" folder, which has the 24.4.1 tools. 3. You have to launch the SDK Manager and install also the "Android 4.0.3 (API 15)". To launch the SDK manager just double click on "tools/android". 4. After that, you should be able to select the path to the sdks tools in the LC Prefs, and build an android standalone successfully. We are going to add support for the latest version of Android Studio in LiveCode 8.1.5 RC1. This will hopefully make things easier. Best regards, Panos -- PS: You can find older version of Android SDK Tools using those links: http://dl-ssl.google.com/android/repository/tools_r[rev]-windows.zip http://dl-ssl.google.com/android/repository/tools_r[rev]-linux.zip http://dl-ssl.google.com/android/repository/tools_r[rev]-macosx.zip Example for *v24.4.1* for *Mac*: http://dl-ssl.google.com/android/repository/tools_r24.4.1-macosx.zip On Fri, May 12, 2017 at 3:44 PM, Dan Friedman via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Does anyone know the proper configuration for building an Android > standalone on a Mac? When I build the app, I get this: > > ?There was an error while saving the standalone application could not > encode class bundle? > > I followed the directions from this page (updated just a week ago): > http://lessons.livecode.com/m/2571/l/27389-how-do-i-become- > an-android-developer-on-a-mac > > But, I still get the same error. The instructions say to get and install > the latest versions of both Android SDK and Java SDK. The instructions > then go on to say that you can?t use the latest version of the Android SDK > Tools, you have to use version 24.4.1. This version is not available in > Android Studio nor is it posted (that I could find) on the android > website. I did eventually find and download it. But, what do you do with > it? After unzipping in, you have a new ?Tools? folder. I replaced the > existing Tools folder at /Users/myComputer/Library/Android/sdk/ and > restarted. But, that didn?t seem to solve anything. Now LiveCode no longer > recognizes the ?android-sdk-mac_x86? folder as a valid Android SDK. UG! > This will be day 3 trying to get an Android App Built! > > MacOSX 10.12.2 > LiveCode 8.1.3 > Android SKD Manager ? Revision 24.4.1 > Java Version 8 Update 111 > > ANY assistance or knowledge you have would be greatly appreciated! > > -Dan > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Fri May 12 12:00:07 2017 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Fri, 12 May 2017 12:00:07 -0400 Subject: ANN: new team member In-Reply-To: <0B89338B-89B7-4DD8-BA3D-D76232E75DE5@byu.edu> References: <0B89338B-89B7-4DD8-BA3D-D76232E75DE5@byu.edu> Message-ID: I hope it's a scripter, not a coder or a programmer. On Fri, May 12, 2017 at 11:54 AM, Devin Asay via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Congratulations, Ali! > > RE a new future programmer. As they say out here in the wild, wild west > (paraphrased): > > Mommas, don?t let your babies grow up to be coders, > Don?t let ?em parse text files and wade through old cruft, > Let ?em be doctors and lawyers and such. > > Apologies to Ed Bruce and Waylon Jennings. > > > Devin > > > On May 11, 2017, at 10:51 AM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > Word from the grapevine is that Ali Lloyd is the new father of a baby > programmer. > > > > -- > > Mark Wieder > > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > Devin Asay > Director > Office of Digital Humanities > Brigham Young University > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From dan at clearvisiontech.com Fri May 12 12:26:50 2017 From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman) Date: Fri, 12 May 2017 16:26:50 +0000 Subject: Android Setup Config In-Reply-To: <> Message-ID: <132F827C-D429-4CD1-9EF2-C8210BC627A8@contoso.com> Panos, Thank you for the assistance! But, didn?t work for me. Here?s what I did: (1) Downloaded ?tools_r24.4.1-macosx.zip? and unzipped it. Now I have a ?tools? folder on my desktop. (2) I double-clicked /desktop/tools/android. The ?Android SDK Manager? opened. (3) I selected ?Android 4.0.3 (API 15)? and clicked ?Install Packages?. (4) After the install was complete, I went back to LC 8.1.3 and in Preferences I selected the /desktop/tools/ as the ?Location of Android development SDK root?. Nada ? invalid Android SDK. What did I do wrong? -Dan From merakosp at gmail.com Fri May 12 12:38:09 2017 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Fri, 12 May 2017 17:38:09 +0100 Subject: Android Setup Config In-Reply-To: <132F827C-D429-4CD1-9EF2-C8210BC627A8@contoso.com> References: <132F827C-D429-4CD1-9EF2-C8210BC627A8@contoso.com> Message-ID: Hi Dan, You have to select the parent folder that contains the "tools" folder as the ?Location of Android development SDK root?, so in that case you have to select "Desktop". Or even better, move the "tools" folder (and every other folder that was installed to your Desktop after installing the Android 4.0.3) into a new folder called "android-sdk", and select "android-sdk" as the ?Location of Android development SDK root". This folder should contain at least the following folders: - tools - platform-tools - platforms Hope this helps, Panos -- On Fri, May 12, 2017 at 5:26 PM, Dan Friedman via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Panos, > > Thank you for the assistance! But, didn?t work for me. Here?s what I > did: > > (1) Downloaded ?tools_r24.4.1-macosx.zip? and unzipped it. Now I have a > ?tools? folder on my desktop. > (2) I double-clicked /desktop/tools/android. The ?Android SDK Manager? > opened. > (3) I selected ?Android 4.0.3 (API 15)? and clicked ?Install Packages?. > (4) After the install was complete, I went back to LC 8.1.3 and in > Preferences I selected the /desktop/tools/ as the ?Location of Android > development SDK root?. Nada ? invalid Android SDK. > > What did I do wrong? > > -Dan > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Fri May 12 12:53:48 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Fri, 12 May 2017 19:53:48 +0300 Subject: ANN: new team member In-Reply-To: References: <0B89338B-89B7-4DD8-BA3D-D76232E75DE5@byu.edu> Message-ID: ? On 5/12/17 7:00 pm, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > I hope it's a scripter, not a coder or a programmer. If you could be so kind as to explain exactly what the diffierences are between a scripter, a coder and a programmer, I, for one, would feel I could breath more easily at night :) Richmond. > > On Fri, May 12, 2017 at 11:54 AM, Devin Asay via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> Congratulations, Ali! >> >> RE a new future programmer. As they say out here in the wild, wild west >> (paraphrased): >> >> Mommas, don?t let your babies grow up to be coders, >> Don?t let ?em parse text files and wade through old cruft, >> Let ?em be doctors and lawyers and such. >> >> Apologies to Ed Bruce and Waylon Jennings. >> >> >> Devin >> >>> On May 11, 2017, at 10:51 AM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> Word from the grapevine is that Ali Lloyd is the new father of a baby >> programmer. >>> -- >>> Mark Wieder >>> ahsoftware at gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> Devin Asay >> Director >> Office of Digital Humanities >> Brigham Young University >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > From dan at clearvisiontech.com Fri May 12 13:06:08 2017 From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman) Date: Fri, 12 May 2017 17:06:08 +0000 Subject: Android Setup Config In-Reply-To: <> Message-ID: <1A31CBE4-2050-4350-BB88-5D2A27F21713@contoso.com> Panos, Thanks again for the help, but I think I must be stupid. I selected ?Desktop? and still got ?invalid Android SDK?. So, I deleted everything, redownloaded ?tools_r24.4.1-macosx.zip? and put it in it?s own folder at: /MacintoshHD/android-sdk/. I then unzipped it and launched /MacintoshHD/android-sdk/tools/android. I selected ?Android 4.0.3 (API 15)? and clicked ?Install Packages?. When the install was complete, I went back to LC 8.1.3 and in Preferences I selected /MacintoshHD/android-sdk/ as the ?Location of Android development SDK root?. Once again, ?invalid Android SDK?. The /MacintoshHD/android-sdk/ directory contains these items: add-ons platform-tools platforms sources system-images temp tools tools_r24.4.1-macosx.zip Any other thoughts or advise? Maybe I?m destined to only make iPhone apps? -Dan From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri May 12 13:14:22 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 12 May 2017 17:14:22 +0000 Subject: ANN: new team member In-Reply-To: References: <0B89338B-89B7-4DD8-BA3D-D76232E75DE5@byu.edu> Message-ID: My guess is, a scripter writes in a high level language like Applescript or Livecode script. A programmer writes in a mid level language like C++ or Pascal. A coder writes in a low level language like assembly. > On May 12, 2017, at 09:53 , Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: > > ? > > On 5/12/17 7:00 pm, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: >> I hope it's a scripter, not a coder or a programmer. > > If you could be so kind as to explain exactly what the diffierences are between > a scripter, a coder and a programmer, I, for one, would feel I could breath > more easily at night :) > > Richmond. From merakosp at gmail.com Fri May 12 13:34:28 2017 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Fri, 12 May 2017 18:34:28 +0100 Subject: Android Setup Config In-Reply-To: <1A31CBE4-2050-4350-BB88-5D2A27F21713@contoso.com> References: <1A31CBE4-2050-4350-BB88-5D2A27F21713@contoso.com> Message-ID: Hi Dan, Your setup sounds perfectly fine to me. Could you please check if there is a file /tools/lib/sdklib.jar? In the meanwhile I will check the version of the Android SDK Tools I have installed in my Mac which works OK with LC. Best, Panos -- On Fri, May 12, 2017 at 6:06 PM, Dan Friedman via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Panos, > > Thanks again for the help, but I think I must be stupid. I selected > ?Desktop? and still got ?invalid Android SDK?. So, I deleted everything, > redownloaded ?tools_r24.4.1-macosx.zip? and put it in it?s own folder at: > /MacintoshHD/android-sdk/. I then unzipped it and launched > /MacintoshHD/android-sdk/tools/android. I selected ?Android 4.0.3 (API > 15)? and clicked ?Install Packages?. When the install was complete, I > went back to LC 8.1.3 and in Preferences I selected > /MacintoshHD/android-sdk/ as the ?Location of Android development SDK > root?. Once again, ?invalid Android SDK?. > > The /MacintoshHD/android-sdk/ directory contains these items: > add-ons > platform-tools > platforms > sources > system-images > temp > tools > tools_r24.4.1-macosx.zip > > > Any other thoughts or advise? Maybe I?m destined to only make iPhone apps? > > -Dan > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From merakosp at gmail.com Fri May 12 14:00:41 2017 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Fri, 12 May 2017 19:00:41 +0100 Subject: Android Setup Config In-Reply-To: References: <1A31CBE4-2050-4350-BB88-5D2A27F21713@contoso.com> Message-ID: Hmm your /MacintoshHD/android-sdk/ directory should also include a folder "build-tools". Since it is not present, you can install it using the SDK Manager: Launch tools/android Find an item "Android SDK Build-tools" (should be at the top) Tick the checkbox and select "Install packages" After that the problem should be fixed :) Best, Panos -- On Fri, May 12, 2017 at 6:34 PM, panagiotis merakos wrote: > Hi Dan, > > Your setup sounds perfectly fine to me. Could you please check if there is > a file /tools/lib/sdklib.jar? > > In the meanwhile I will check the version of the Android SDK Tools I have > installed in my Mac which works OK with LC. > > Best, > Panos > -- > > On Fri, May 12, 2017 at 6:06 PM, Dan Friedman via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> Panos, >> >> Thanks again for the help, but I think I must be stupid. I selected >> ?Desktop? and still got ?invalid Android SDK?. So, I deleted everything, >> redownloaded ?tools_r24.4.1-macosx.zip? and put it in it?s own folder at: >> /MacintoshHD/android-sdk/. I then unzipped it and launched >> /MacintoshHD/android-sdk/tools/android. I selected ?Android 4.0.3 (API >> 15)? and clicked ?Install Packages?. When the install was complete, I >> went back to LC 8.1.3 and in Preferences I selected >> /MacintoshHD/android-sdk/ as the ?Location of Android development SDK >> root?. Once again, ?invalid Android SDK?. >> >> The /MacintoshHD/android-sdk/ directory contains these items: >> add-ons >> platform-tools >> platforms >> sources >> system-images >> temp >> tools >> tools_r24.4.1-macosx.zip >> >> >> Any other thoughts or advise? Maybe I?m destined to only make iPhone >> apps? >> >> -Dan >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > From merakosp at gmail.com Fri May 12 14:03:38 2017 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Fri, 12 May 2017 19:03:38 +0100 Subject: Android Setup Config In-Reply-To: References: <1A31CBE4-2050-4350-BB88-5D2A27F21713@contoso.com> Message-ID: Hi Dan, I have download the ?tools_r24.4.1-macosx.zip? and unzipped it into a folder android-sdk. Then launched tools/android and installed ?Android 4.0.3 (API 15)?. Now when I launch tools/android I see at the top: (These are the installed versions) Android SDK Tools: 24.4.1 Android SDK Platform-tools: 25.0.5 Android SDK Build-tools: 25.0.3 Moreover, my android-sdk folder contains those folders: add-ons build-tools platform-tools platforms sources system-images temp tools And the ?platforms? folder contains a folder ?android-15? I can successfully set the ?Location of Android development SDK root? in the LC Prefs, and also to create an android standalone. Hope this helps, Panos ? On Fri, May 12, 2017 at 7:00 PM, panagiotis merakos wrote: > Hmm your /MacintoshHD/android-sdk/ directory should also include a folder > "build-tools". Since it is not present, you can install it using the SDK > Manager: > > Launch tools/android > Find an item "Android SDK Build-tools" (should be at the top) > Tick the checkbox and select "Install packages" > > After that the problem should be fixed :) > > Best, > Panos > -- > > On Fri, May 12, 2017 at 6:34 PM, panagiotis merakos > wrote: > >> Hi Dan, >> >> Your setup sounds perfectly fine to me. Could you please check if there >> is a file /tools/lib/sdklib.jar? >> >> In the meanwhile I will check the version of the Android SDK Tools I have >> installed in my Mac which works OK with LC. >> >> Best, >> Panos >> -- >> >> On Fri, May 12, 2017 at 6:06 PM, Dan Friedman via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >>> Panos, >>> >>> Thanks again for the help, but I think I must be stupid. I selected >>> ?Desktop? and still got ?invalid Android SDK?. So, I deleted everything, >>> redownloaded ?tools_r24.4.1-macosx.zip? and put it in it?s own folder at: >>> /MacintoshHD/android-sdk/. I then unzipped it and launched >>> /MacintoshHD/android-sdk/tools/android. I selected ?Android 4.0.3 >>> (API 15)? and clicked ?Install Packages?. When the install was complete, >>> I went back to LC 8.1.3 and in Preferences I selected >>> /MacintoshHD/android-sdk/ as the ?Location of Android development SDK >>> root?. Once again, ?invalid Android SDK?. >>> >>> The /MacintoshHD/android-sdk/ directory contains these items: >>> add-ons >>> platform-tools >>> platforms >>> sources >>> system-images >>> temp >>> tools >>> tools_r24.4.1-macosx.zip >>> >>> >>> Any other thoughts or advise? Maybe I?m destined to only make iPhone >>> apps? >>> >>> -Dan >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> > From harrison at all-auctions.com Fri May 12 14:09:30 2017 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison) Date: Fri, 12 May 2017 14:09:30 -0400 Subject: sysError List? In-Reply-To: <6d5d97cf-a786-23c9-0af9-032856fdcf14@fourthworld.com> References: <9E049E97-11F6-4EA1-AB41-02A6DAA96EA2@all-auctions.com> <6d5d97cf-a786-23c9-0af9-032856fdcf14@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <6006BFBD-7643-453E-B040-C7B65E936F81@all-auctions.com> Hi Richard, Sorry it has been a couple days before I could get back to this task. Ok, so my file uploaded to: /tmp/livecode_qpSKBPng I thought that perhaps tmp was a hidden folder so I looked on my Mac after first unhiding all files. I?m still not seeing it. Where is this located? Then I?m getting an error 20 when I try to rename (move) the file to the proper folder where I want it to go. I don?t know what error 20 is. Does it mean it is a permissions problem? The file wasn?t found? I don?t know. Let me know if you have any ideas. Thanks, Rick > On May 9, 2017, at 8:20 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > Rick Harrison wrote: > > > I did some experiments and did get one instance > > of rename to work properly. Apparently I had > > a permissions problem with writing to the folder/file. > > Yep, most things with file I/O that fails are either paths or permissions. Glad you got that sorted. > > > Other issues I?m running into are: > > > > 1. I?m running into some 32,767 array size > > error when trying to upload large images > > to the server. Images smaller than > > the magic figure upload fine, and larger > > files over that figure throw and error > > message and fail to upload. > > "array size"? Where is that error coming from, the client or the server? > > > > 2. Where can I find the LiveCode tmp folder > > where the images are initially uploaded? > > > > I need the complete file path to that so > > I can move the images where I want them. > > Unless there is a way I can upload directly > > to the file folder I want? > > I generally only use standalones on the server, and I handle buffering to disk myself. > > Anyone here know if LC Server does that differently? If so, where are those temp files? > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From harrison at all-auctions.com Fri May 12 14:13:20 2017 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison) Date: Fri, 12 May 2017 14:13:20 -0400 Subject: ANN: new team member In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Congratulations! I think you?ll have to wait for several years before coding education will pay off. Good luck keeping all of your hair! LOL Rick From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Fri May 12 14:33:18 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Fri, 12 May 2017 21:33:18 +0300 Subject: Friday Night Drag Act Message-ID: <8a544c27-2b2a-9588-b952-8934d43d1ec8@gmail.com> My Great Uncle, now sadly not with us, used to do a Friday night drag act, which, oddly enough brought him more money than his rather boring day job. As a conservative sort of chap I am now following in this wonderful family tradition: http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=29242 Although, frankly, I doubt if it will bring me any money. Face facts: what else could be more thrilling than this on a Friday night? Richmond. From dan at clearvisiontech.com Fri May 12 14:45:34 2017 From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman) Date: Fri, 12 May 2017 18:45:34 +0000 Subject: Android Setup Config In-Reply-To: <> Message-ID: <4E662C04-0C13-4672-A62E-171CA7F85633@contoso.com> Panos, WooHoo!! Adding the Android Build-tools 25.0.3 did the trick!! Not only did LiveCode accept the ?android-skk? folder as the ?Location of Android development SDK?, but it also successfully built the Android app. Panos, thank you. Really! Thank you for your time and your detailed instructions. You made my day!! -Dan From merakosp at gmail.com Fri May 12 14:52:25 2017 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Fri, 12 May 2017 19:52:25 +0100 Subject: Android Setup Config In-Reply-To: <4E662C04-0C13-4672-A62E-171CA7F85633@contoso.com> References: <4E662C04-0C13-4672-A62E-171CA7F85633@contoso.com> Message-ID: Great :) You are welcome :) On 12 May 2017 19:45, "Dan Friedman via use-livecode" < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Panos, > > WooHoo!! Adding the Android Build-tools 25.0.3 did the trick!! Not only > did LiveCode accept the ?android-skk? folder as the ?Location of Android > development SDK?, but it also successfully built the Android app. > > Panos, thank you. Really! Thank you for your time and your detailed > instructions. You made my day!! > > -Dan > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Fri May 12 14:54:49 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Fri, 12 May 2017 11:54:49 -0700 Subject: sysError List? In-Reply-To: <6006BFBD-7643-453E-B040-C7B65E936F81@all-auctions.com> References: <6006BFBD-7643-453E-B040-C7B65E936F81@all-auctions.com> Message-ID: Rick Harrison wrote: > Sorry it has been a couple days before I could > get back to this task. > > Ok, so my file uploaded to: /tmp/livecode_qpSKBPng > > I thought that perhaps tmp was a hidden folder > so I looked on my Mac after first unhiding all files. > I?m still not seeing it. Where is this located? > > Then I?m getting an error 20 when I try to > rename (move) the file to the proper folder > where I want it to go. I don?t know what > error 20 is. Does it mean it is a permissions > problem? The file wasn?t found? I don?t know. What path do you get with the specialFolderPath function?, e.g.: put specialFolderPath("temporary") &"/livecode_qpSKBPng" \ into tPath -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri May 12 14:56:05 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 12 May 2017 13:56:05 -0500 Subject: filter? replace? wildcard? reg exp? help please! In-Reply-To: References: <20c85163-01cf-baec-af46-b725f6bf724d@hyperactivesw.com> <57ced69a-18ee-4d50-55ce-66055b95ffb6@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: On 5/12/17 2:08 AM, Thierry Douez via use-livecode wrote: > ?Hi, > > > >> >> function removeBrackets pString >> return replacetext(pString,"\[.*\]",empty) >> end removeBrackets >> >> > ?? > > What would be the result of next line:? > > *put* removeBrackets > ?( ? > "1 [A] 2 [B] 3." > ?) An error. I did warn about my limited regex skills. :) So what should it be? Also, that's a non-standard format for a function. I've never seen it written that way before. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri May 12 15:03:55 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 12 May 2017 14:03:55 -0500 Subject: Update strategy? In-Reply-To: References: <440AB913-1A0E-4580-A08F-FA1AAB083395@mac.com> <555d13a0-ae67-b562-cd3c-ca06ed1fd5b8@researchware.com> <99C4FDA5-7684-408F-8F30-3C47769B0EFE@mac.com> <922d9117-7339-9a52-2441-731f2751d94f@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <93e85b48-cb16-2ae4-8267-2e0c3571ee5b@hyperactivesw.com> On 5/12/17 4:20 AM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode wrote: > your method also avoids the issue of launching a completely automatic > update without giving the user an opportunity to refuse. So you just > get the user to run the installer, the same way as Tiemo does - is > that right? It would be if I still used installers. My long-term client said she'd never use one again, it caused more problems than it solved. So we use a plain .zip file now for Windows and a .dmg for Mac. That isn't without issues as well, mostly for Windows users, who don't always understand that Windows inexplicably opens the zip file with the contents displayed, but it isn't really unzipped. When they try to double-click the .exe file, it fails and usually results in a support call. The instructions clearly state that they need to move the enclosed folder to the desktop, but users don't read, especially if it is in giant red text with underscores and stars and italics and repeated several times. (Okay, I exaggerate.) But for the most part she tells me that support is less with this method than it was for the installer they used to use. It probably depends on what installer you have. I took over the project post-installer so I don't have any experience with their previous product. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From harrison at all-auctions.com Fri May 12 15:24:14 2017 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison) Date: Fri, 12 May 2017 15:24:14 -0400 Subject: sysError List? In-Reply-To: References: <6006BFBD-7643-453E-B040-C7B65E936F81@all-auctions.com> Message-ID: Hi Richard, That yields: tPath = /livecode_qpSKBPng Does that help? Rick > On May 12, 2017, at 2:54 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > put specialFolderPath("temporary") &"/livecode_qpSKBPng" \ > into tPath From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Fri May 12 15:37:59 2017 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Fri, 12 May 2017 15:37:59 -0400 Subject: ANN: new team member In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Except, Bob, I would consider (C)rap to be what a coder writes in. No one who ever wrote assembly would consider that a low-level language in comparison to C. On Fri, May 12, 2017 at 2:13 PM, Rick Harrison via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Congratulations! > > I think you?ll have to wait for several years > before coding education will pay off. > > Good luck keeping all of your hair! LOL > > Rick > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri May 12 16:19:30 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 12 May 2017 20:19:30 +0000 Subject: ANN: new team member In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9DFE5E17-8323-490E-940C-8E1C8B3E15EF@iotecdigital.com> Heh heh. The level is not an indication of how primitive the language is. It's an indication of how abstracted from the machine language it is. Scripting is considered to be high level not because it is advances, but because it is most like human language and least like machine language. Bob S > On May 12, 2017, at 12:37 , Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > > Except, Bob, I would consider (C)rap to be what a coder writes in. No one > who ever wrote assembly would consider that a low-level language in > comparison to C. From th.douez at gmail.com Fri May 12 16:37:58 2017 From: th.douez at gmail.com (Thierry Douez) Date: Fri, 12 May 2017 22:37:58 +0200 Subject: filter? replace? wildcard? reg exp? help please! In-Reply-To: References: <20c85163-01cf-baec-af46-b725f6bf724d@hyperactivesw.com> <57ced69a-18ee-4d50-55ce-66055b95ffb6@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: > > >> >> >>> function removeBrackets pString >>> return replacetext(pString,"\[.*\]",empty) >>> end removeBrackets >>> >> ?? >> >> What would be the result of next line:? >> >> *put* removeBrackets >> ?( ? >> "1 [A] 2 [B] 3." >> ?) >> > > An error. I did warn about my limited regex skills. :) So what should it be? > > Also, that's a non-standard format for a function. I've never seen it written that way before. ? This should be a one-line command! I've typed this post with the new Opera browser.... ??? Another try with 2 lines: put "1 [A] 2 [B] 3." into tText put removeBrackets( tText) ?Better? Thierry? ------------------------------------------------ Thierry Douez - sunny-tdz.com sunnYrex - sunnYtext2speech - sunnYperl - sunnYmidi - sunnYmage From ambassador at fourthworld.com Fri May 12 17:10:14 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Fri, 12 May 2017 14:10:14 -0700 Subject: sysError List? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <54756ea0-e0ac-59f3-8640-af0fc98baf8a@fourthworld.com> Rick Harrison wrote: >> On May 12, 2017, at 2:54 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> >> put specialFolderPath("temporary") &"/livecode_qpSKBPng" \ >> into tPath > > That yields: > > tPath = /livecode_qpSKBPng > > Does that help? Scary. Looks like the specialFolderPath function is returning empty with the "temporary" constant on your system? LC and OS versions? Just for diagnostics, what does this do there?: put specialFolderPath("documents") -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Fri May 12 17:21:54 2017 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Fri, 12 May 2017 17:21:54 -0400 Subject: PDF on Android In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <00e201d2cb65$c7c5cc50$575164f0$@net> Al, Thanks for the heads up to the forum thread!!! Worked like a charm out-of-the-box. I was shocked. Have a good one... Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2017 10:18 AM To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Cc: Alejandro Tejada Subject: PDF on Android Hi Ralph, Take a look at this forum thread: "New approach for offline viewing PDF inside Android browser" http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=28518&p=152687 MaxV uses the javascript library named pdf.js for this purpose. Al _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri May 12 17:31:22 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 12 May 2017 16:31:22 -0500 Subject: filter? replace? wildcard? reg exp? help please! In-Reply-To: References: <20c85163-01cf-baec-af46-b725f6bf724d@hyperactivesw.com> <57ced69a-18ee-4d50-55ce-66055b95ffb6@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: On 5/12/17 3:37 PM, Thierry Douez via use-livecode wrote: > This should be a one-line command! > I've typed this post with the new Opera browser.... > ??? > > > Another try with 2 lines: > > put "1 [A] 2 [B] 3." into tText > put removeBrackets( tText) > > ?Better? Yes. It's odd that a browser would reformat it that way. I see that the middle section is omitted with my regex, so I forgot to make it non-greedy. But I've forgotten how to do that, something about a question mark, I think? -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From harrison at all-auctions.com Fri May 12 18:04:44 2017 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison) Date: Fri, 12 May 2017 18:04:44 -0400 Subject: sysError List? In-Reply-To: <54756ea0-e0ac-59f3-8640-af0fc98baf8a@fourthworld.com> References: <54756ea0-e0ac-59f3-8640-af0fc98baf8a@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <2DD0C7ED-0D40-41F3-9ED1-7F3CBE5B3989@all-auctions.com> Hi Richard, LC version 8.1.4-rc-1 macOS El Capitan (10.11.6) put specialFolderPath("documents?) yields: /Library/WebServer/Documents Your thoughts? Rick > On May 12, 2017, at 5:10 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > Scary. Looks like the specialFolderPath function is returning empty with the "temporary" constant on your system? > > LC and OS versions? > > Just for diagnostics, what does this do there?: > > put specialFolderPath("documents") > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Fri May 12 22:40:16 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Fri, 12 May 2017 19:40:16 -0700 Subject: sysError List? In-Reply-To: <2DD0C7ED-0D40-41F3-9ED1-7F3CBE5B3989@all-auctions.com> References: <2DD0C7ED-0D40-41F3-9ED1-7F3CBE5B3989@all-auctions.com> Message-ID: Rick Harrison wrote: > LC version 8.1.4-rc-1 > macOS El Capitan (10.11.6) > > put specialFolderPath("documents?) > > yields: > /Library/WebServer/Documents > > Your thoughts? What does this return?: put specialFolderPath("temporary") -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From capellan2000 at gmail.com Sat May 13 01:37:52 2017 From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada) Date: Sat, 13 May 2017 01:37:52 -0400 Subject: SVG powered images Message-ID: Hi All, Jonathan Lynch wrote: > Hey guys - I figured out a solution for that bug I had previously > written a hack for. I use the image.onload handler in the JavaScript > for this. It works consistently now. I just had to get my order of events > correct in the JavaScript. > So please check out the new version This versions works really well with Animated SVG. Check a step by step recipe to play them in my answer to Klaus message: Klaus Major wrote about running animated svg: > not when viewed in Safari on a Mac! Macs always store a surprise or two! :D Check if this step by step recipe works in a Mac: 1) Download most recent version of Jonathan Lynch's stack: http://livecodeshare.runrev.com/stack/830/SVG-Powered-Images 2) Download this animated svg: https://openclipart.org/detail/230261/gearanimation02-remix This mechanical gears animation is better for detecting any "jump" in the animation conversion. 3) Import mechanical gears animated svg into Jonathan's stack 4) edit the script of gears bitmap image and add this script after "resizecontrol" handler on mousedown put the id of me into tID repeat while the mouse is down send "processSVG tID" to widget "SVGBrowser1" end repeat end mousedown 5) Click and hold down the mouse button over one gear and see them move. Tell us if this works fine on a Mac (or other OS that you use on a PC or within a Virtual Machine) Hermann Hoch wrote: > I have also a fast method, runs with 30 fps, > for taking PNG-frames from a video, so that > converting an SVG animation to PNGs is > no problem (though I can't see any sense > in doing that). Converting a video at 30 frames per seconds in PNG images? This is amazing! :D After you publish this stack, we will find many uses for this feature. Hermann, your resourceful and detailed stacks are a rich source of inspiration for many of us: http://livecodeshare.runrev.com/stack/831/SVG2PNG_6789 http://livecodeshare.runrev.com/stack/832/SVG-TextCrawler Keep Up your Great Work! :D Al From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sat May 13 05:37:04 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Sat, 13 May 2017 12:37:04 +0300 Subject: SVG image from Illustrator Message-ID: <90709d75-cc53-e3a3-7522-9d65cd9fcd79@gmail.com> I would be most grateful of someone could send me 2 or 3 black-and-white, or black-on-transparency SVGs generated in Adobe Illustrator. Richmond Mathewson. From klaus at major-k.de Sat May 13 06:48:28 2017 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Sat, 13 May 2017 12:48:28 +0200 Subject: SVG powered images In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0D65C6F9-B441-4C9C-9B84-C844879A6A07@major-k.de> Hola Al, > Am 13.05.2017 um 07:37 schrieb Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode : > > Hi All, > > Jonathan Lynch wrote: >> Hey guys - I figured out a solution for that bug I had previously >> written a hack for. I use the image.onload handler in the JavaScript >> for this. It works consistently now. I just had to get my order of events >> correct in the JavaScript. >> So please check out the new version > > This versions works really well with Animated SVG. > Check a step by step recipe to play them in > my answer to Klaus message: > > Klaus Major wrote about running animated svg: >> not when viewed in Safari on a Mac! > > Macs always store a surprise or two! :D > Check if this step by step recipe works > in a Mac: > > 1) Download most recent version of Jonathan Lynch's stack: > http://livecodeshare.runrev.com/stack/830/SVG-Powered-Images > > 2) Download this animated svg: > https://openclipart.org/detail/230261/gearanimation02-remix > > This mechanical gears animation is better for detecting > any "jump" in the animation conversion. > > 3) Import mechanical gears animated svg > into Jonathan's stack > > 4) edit the script of gears bitmap image and > add this script after "resizecontrol" handler > > on mousedown > put the id of me into tID > repeat while the mouse is down > send "processSVG tID" to widget "SVGBrowser1" > end repeat > end mousedown > > 5) Click and hold down the mouse button over > one gear and see them move. > > Tell us if this works fine on a Mac (or other OS that > you use on a PC or within a Virtual Machine) well, nothing actually happens, except that LC almost freezes for a couple of seconds!? Works fine in Safari though :-D Best Klaus -- Klaus Major http://www.major-k.de klaus at major-k.de From klaus at major-k.de Sat May 13 06:50:16 2017 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Sat, 13 May 2017 12:50:16 +0200 Subject: SVG powered images In-Reply-To: <0D65C6F9-B441-4C9C-9B84-C844879A6A07@major-k.de> References: <0D65C6F9-B441-4C9C-9B84-C844879A6A07@major-k.de> Message-ID: <2D981CE2-AF62-40C8-8AD4-887A4E2A5F0D@major-k.de> Addition, the animated SVG is not displayed in any browser widget at all!? Best Klaus -- Klaus Major http://www.major-k.de klaus at major-k.de From jonathandlynch at gmail.com Sat May 13 07:08:34 2017 From: jonathandlynch at gmail.com (jonathandlynch at gmail.com) Date: Sat, 13 May 2017 07:08:34 -0400 Subject: SVG powered images In-Reply-To: <2D981CE2-AF62-40C8-8AD4-887A4E2A5F0D@major-k.de> References: <0D65C6F9-B441-4C9C-9B84-C844879A6A07@major-k.de> <2D981CE2-AF62-40C8-8AD4-887A4E2A5F0D@major-k.de> Message-ID: <9F404A89-1519-42B0-9157-4083CD43875C@gmail.com> For svg animation, it seems like it would be more efficient to let the animation play in the widget and just periodically export a frame, rather than rewrite the svg every time. Sent from my iPhone > On May 13, 2017, at 6:50 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote: > > Addition, the animated SVG is not displayed in any browser widget at all!? > > > Best > > Klaus > > -- > Klaus Major > http://www.major-k.de > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From colinholgate at gmail.com Sat May 13 07:22:04 2017 From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate) Date: Sat, 13 May 2017 07:22:04 -0400 Subject: SVG image from Illustrator In-Reply-To: <90709d75-cc53-e3a3-7522-9d65cd9fcd79@gmail.com> References: <90709d75-cc53-e3a3-7522-9d65cd9fcd79@gmail.com> Message-ID: <8D611B9B-C99F-4780-8267-922CE01B12F7@gmail.com> Your email address doesn?t show up in the message, so I put one here: http://colin.scienceninja.com/rm.svg The R is from text and the M is brush stroke. If you can tell me what to draw I can do other ones. > On May 13, 2017, at 5:37 AM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: > > I would be most grateful of someone could send me 2 or 3 black-and-white, > or black-on-transparency SVGs generated in Adobe Illustrator. > > Richmond Mathewson. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sat May 13 07:31:53 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Sat, 13 May 2017 14:31:53 +0300 Subject: SVG image from Illustrator In-Reply-To: <8D611B9B-C99F-4780-8267-922CE01B12F7@gmail.com> References: <90709d75-cc53-e3a3-7522-9d65cd9fcd79@gmail.com> <8D611B9B-C99F-4780-8267-922CE01B12F7@gmail.com> Message-ID: <74fc764d-69e9-c766-85e1-54182217259c@gmail.com> That's lovely, Thank you very much indeed. Richmond. On 5/13/17 2:22 pm, Colin Holgate via use-livecode wrote: > Your email address doesn?t show up in the message, so I put one here: > > http://colin.scienceninja.com/rm.svg > > The R is from text and the M is brush stroke. > > If you can tell me what to draw I can do other ones. > > >> On May 13, 2017, at 5:37 AM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: >> >> I would be most grateful of someone could send me 2 or 3 black-and-white, >> or black-on-transparency SVGs generated in Adobe Illustrator. >> >> Richmond Mathewson. >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From hh at hyperhh.de Sat May 13 08:22:45 2017 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Sat, 13 May 2017 14:22:45 +0200 Subject: SVG powered images Message-ID: <71670EC8-0048-4C6C-99B7-AAC26AAB0555@hyperhh.de> @Klaus I tested the svg-to-png conversion using both revBrowser and browser widget on Mac 10.12.4. This works. It doesn't work on Mac 10.10. (probably also Mac 10.11). This is caused by webkit which LC uses on Mac. Where it runs, taking frames from an svg animation or from a video is "stuttering" because the svg or video already takes most of the graphic card's power. @Alejandro This SVG animation is a fine demo to show that pure LC script can be much better than SVG animation. Adjust there with a menu the speed to your machine (you can also change color and sizes of the gears while the animation is running). http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?p=137068#p137068 From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sat May 13 09:12:49 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Sat, 13 May 2017 16:12:49 +0300 Subject: SVG widget? Message-ID: <41ee01d8-b8bd-0fa3-8fc4-ff3207c678cb@gmail.com> Is it true that the Livecode SVG widget is ONLY setup to deal with code pasted from Inkscape SVG images? Might be time for Livecode to "fess up". Richmond. From colinholgate at gmail.com Sat May 13 09:42:17 2017 From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate) Date: Sat, 13 May 2017 09:42:17 -0400 Subject: SVG widget? In-Reply-To: <41ee01d8-b8bd-0fa3-8fc4-ff3207c678cb@gmail.com> References: <41ee01d8-b8bd-0fa3-8fc4-ff3207c678cb@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1514E837-DFFC-4A90-BA80-0657BEB1DD1D@gmail.com> I tried the path data from the file I made for you. The text letter R is handled differently, but the M path data copy into LiveCode ok. > On May 13, 2017, at 9:12 AM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: > > Is it true that the Livecode SVG widget is ONLY setup to deal with code pasted from Inkscape SVG images? > > Might be time for Livecode to "fess up". > > Richmond. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From harrison at all-auctions.com Sat May 13 09:44:12 2017 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison) Date: Sat, 13 May 2017 09:44:12 -0400 Subject: sysError List? In-Reply-To: References: <2DD0C7ED-0D40-41F3-9ED1-7F3CBE5B3989@all-auctions.com> Message-ID: <803AF16A-C9D6-49D6-A1B2-C8890F734B62@all-auctions.com> Hi Richard, It returns blank. So now what? Rick > On May 12, 2017, at 10:40 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > put specialFolderPath("temporary") From hh at hyperhh.de Sat May 13 09:56:20 2017 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Sat, 13 May 2017 15:56:20 +0200 Subject: SVG widget? Message-ID: @Colin Your letter "R" is not part of the (single) path. @Richmond The widget SVG Icon is set up to display at most ONE SINGLE path, no matter where the path comes from. The format must according to dict fulfill the SVG specifications https://www.w3.org/TR/SVG/paths.html#PathData. Colin's _path_ demo contains also elliptical arcs (a- or A-Elements). That's what LC obviously does not (yet) support in LC 9.0.0-dp6. It IS supported by LC 8.1.4-rc2. The extracted path is (shows an "M") M257.85,186a119.82,119.82,0,0,1,7.09-38 c.45-1.24.88-3.22,1.64-4.25,1.81-2.48,2.39-1.47,3.54.62 q2.21,4,4.16,8.15a153.47,153.47,0,0,1,7.49,19.24 c.35,1.11,2.19,1.62,2.74.36l8.43-19.06 c1.14-2.58,2.26-7.56,4.21-9.53,3.42-3.46,3.32,4.4,3.69,6.83 l6.41,42.15c.29,1.9,3.18,1.09,2.89-.8L305.78,163l-2-13.41 c-.45-2.95-.15-8.14-2.26-10.52-3.93-4.44-6.94,3-8.06,5.57 l-11.49,26,2.74.36a157.53,157.53,0,0,0-9.81-24.06 c-1.37-2.69-4.73-12-9.17-7.74-2.16,2.07-3,6.2-4,8.9 a119.47,119.47,0,0,0-3.62,12.24 A124.63,124.63,0,0,0,254.85,186 c-.05,1.93,2.95,1.93,3,0Z From colinholgate at gmail.com Sat May 13 10:02:31 2017 From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate) Date: Sat, 13 May 2017 10:02:31 -0400 Subject: SVG widget? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: In LiveCode 8.1.4 the path data for the M seems to look ok, and I didn?t get any errors. > On May 13, 2017, at 9:56 AM, hh via use-livecode wrote: > > @Colin > Your letter "R" is not part of the (single) path. > > @Richmond > The widget SVG Icon is set up to display at most ONE SINGLE path, > no matter where the path comes from. > > The format must according to dict fulfill the SVG specifications > https://www.w3.org/TR/SVG/paths.html#PathData. > > Colin's _path_ demo contains also elliptical arcs (a- or A-Elements). > > That's what LC obviously does not (yet) support in LC 9.0.0-dp6. > It IS supported by LC 8.1.4-rc2. > > The extracted path is (shows an "M") > > M257.85,186a119.82,119.82,0,0,1,7.09-38 > c.45-1.24.88-3.22,1.64-4.25,1.81-2.48,2.39-1.47,3.54.62 > q2.21,4,4.16,8.15a153.47,153.47,0,0,1,7.49,19.24 > c.35,1.11,2.19,1.62,2.74.36l8.43-19.06 > c1.14-2.58,2.26-7.56,4.21-9.53,3.42-3.46,3.32,4.4,3.69,6.83 > l6.41,42.15c.29,1.9,3.18,1.09,2.89-.8L305.78,163l-2-13.41 > c-.45-2.95-.15-8.14-2.26-10.52-3.93-4.44-6.94,3-8.06,5.57 > l-11.49,26,2.74.36a157.53,157.53,0,0,0-9.81-24.06 > c-1.37-2.69-4.73-12-9.17-7.74-2.16,2.07-3,6.2-4,8.9 > a119.47,119.47,0,0,0-3.62,12.24 > A124.63,124.63,0,0,0,254.85,186 > c-.05,1.93,2.95,1.93,3,0Z > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jonathandlynch at gmail.com Sat May 13 10:30:16 2017 From: jonathandlynch at gmail.com (jonathandlynch at gmail.com) Date: Sat, 13 May 2017 10:30:16 -0400 Subject: SVG powered images In-Reply-To: <71670EC8-0048-4C6C-99B7-AAC26AAB0555@hyperhh.de> References: <71670EC8-0048-4C6C-99B7-AAC26AAB0555@hyperhh.de> Message-ID: I feel like HH has an important point - this method uses a lot of processor power. We should minimize the burden on the processor (small animation, efficient JavaScript) and make sure our target users will consistently have the processing power to handle this kind of animation. Sent from my iPhone > On May 13, 2017, at 8:22 AM, hh via use-livecode wrote: > > @Klaus > I tested the svg-to-png conversion using both revBrowser and browser widget on > Mac 10.12.4. This works. It doesn't work on Mac 10.10. (probably also Mac 10.11). > This is caused by webkit which LC uses on Mac. > Where it runs, taking frames from an svg animation or from a video is "stuttering" > because the svg or video already takes most of the graphic card's power. > > @Alejandro > This SVG animation is a fine demo to show that pure LC script can be much better > than SVG animation. Adjust there with a menu the speed to your machine (you can > also change color and sizes of the gears while the animation is running). > > http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?p=137068#p137068 > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sat May 13 10:42:17 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Sat, 13 May 2017 17:42:17 +0300 Subject: Summer Visit Message-ID: Dear Mum and Dada, I have booked and paid for a flight with British Airways as follows: Sofia - Heathrow 18 August, arrive at Heathrow at 4 pm. Heathrow - Sofia 31 August, leave Heathrow at 8 am (I will stay with Savina the night before). Love, John. From colinholgate at gmail.com Sat May 13 10:47:26 2017 From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate) Date: Sat, 13 May 2017 10:47:26 -0400 Subject: Summer Visit In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hope John has a good trip. > On May 13, 2017, at 10:42 AM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: > > Dear Mum and Dada, > > I have booked and paid for a flight with British Airways as follows: > > Sofia - Heathrow 18 August, arrive at Heathrow at 4 pm. > > Heathrow - Sofia 31 August, leave Heathrow at 8 am (I will stay with Savina the night before). > > Love, John. > From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sat May 13 10:50:42 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Sat, 13 May 2017 17:50:42 +0300 Subject: Summer Visit In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <56a57d35-ff60-5f5d-fa0b-0e4734559aa7@gmail.com> Sorry, folks; sent to the wrong address :/ Richmond. On 5/13/17 5:47 pm, Colin Holgate via use-livecode wrote: > Hope John has a good trip. > > >> On May 13, 2017, at 10:42 AM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Dear Mum and Dada, >> >> I have booked and paid for a flight with British Airways as follows: >> >> Sofia - Heathrow 18 August, arrive at Heathrow at 4 pm. >> >> Heathrow - Sofia 31 August, leave Heathrow at 8 am (I will stay with Savina the night before). >> >> Love, John. >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sat May 13 10:53:35 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Sat, 13 May 2017 17:53:35 +0300 Subject: WannaCry [OT] Message-ID: <6dfa2416-662b-fe48-a168-63c4322a84b8@gmail.com> " The WannaCry virus only infects machines running Windows" http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-39896393 Err . . . Linux Richmond. From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sat May 13 11:15:58 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sat, 13 May 2017 08:15:58 -0700 Subject: sysError List? In-Reply-To: <803AF16A-C9D6-49D6-A1B2-C8890F734B62@all-auctions.com> References: <803AF16A-C9D6-49D6-A1B2-C8890F734B62@all-auctions.com> Message-ID: <9df69970-58a6-1710-afdf-19d919db1aff@fourthworld.com> Rick Harrison wrote: >> On May 12, 2017, at 10:40 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> >> put specialFolderPath("temporary") > > Hi Richard, > > It returns blank. > > So now what? That value is either accurate or inaccurate. Either way, it seems a bug - the question is, where? If accurate, it would appear there's something very unusual about your OS config, since temp files are a common necessity in modern OSes. If inaccurate, it would appear to be a bug in LC 8.1.4 RC1. Have you tried that in 8.1.4 RC2? http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ If the problem is repeatable with the latest build you might want to file a bug report on that. FWIW, testing both LC 8.1.4 RC2 and 9.0 DP6 I get a valid path to my system's temp folder. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From harrison at all-auctions.com Sat May 13 11:34:31 2017 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison) Date: Sat, 13 May 2017 11:34:31 -0400 Subject: sysError List? In-Reply-To: <9df69970-58a6-1710-afdf-19d919db1aff@fourthworld.com> References: <803AF16A-C9D6-49D6-A1B2-C8890F734B62@all-auctions.com> <9df69970-58a6-1710-afdf-19d919db1aff@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Hi Richard, Ok, I?ll try an upgrade to 8.1.4 RC2 to see if that works, and then get back to you. Thanks, Rick > On May 13, 2017, at 11:15 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > Rick Harrison wrote: > > >> On May 12, 2017, at 10:40 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > >> > >> put specialFolderPath("temporary") > > > > Hi Richard, > > > > It returns blank. > > > > So now what? > > That value is either accurate or inaccurate. Either way, it seems a bug - the question is, where? > > If accurate, it would appear there's something very unusual about your OS config, since temp files are a common necessity in modern OSes. > > If inaccurate, it would appear to be a bug in LC 8.1.4 RC1. > > Have you tried that in 8.1.4 RC2? > http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ > > If the problem is repeatable with the latest build you might want to file a bug report on that. > > FWIW, testing both LC 8.1.4 RC2 and 9.0 DP6 I get a valid path to my system's temp folder. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sat May 13 11:36:35 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sat, 13 May 2017 08:36:35 -0700 Subject: WannaCry [OT] In-Reply-To: <6dfa2416-662b-fe48-a168-63c4322a84b8@gmail.com> References: <6dfa2416-662b-fe48-a168-63c4322a84b8@gmail.com> Message-ID: Richmond Mathewson wrote: > " The WannaCry virus only infects machines running Windows" > > http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-39896393 > > Err . . . Linux While it's true that this particular exploit is dependent on a Windows-specific vulnerability, this is no time for smugness. There's a larger issue here relevant for all of us: IF YOUR SYSTEM US NO LONGER RECEIVING UPDATES, IT'S NO LONGER RECEIVING CRITICAL SECURITY PATCHES FOR KNOWN VULNERABILITIES. Any such system, if connected to any network that connects to the Internet, should be considered too dangerous to use. Doesn't matter whether it's Windows, macOS, or Linux. Once the OS has reached EOL, either upgrade to a supported OS version or turn off all network connectivity. This exploit has become a global tragedy, but worse is that it appears to have been preventable: Microsoft issued a patch protecting against this months ago, and for the (shockingly large number of) machines still running XP, Microsoft spent literally millions over a many years reminding everyone of XP's EOL date and encouraging them to upgrade to a supported OS version. Apple (for reasons only they can discern but AFAIK have not disclosed) are less kind to their users, often stopping updates without explicit notice and little if any forewarning. They do advertise when new versions are available, but generally haven't provided clear notice when EOL is reached for a given version. For example, when Snow Leopard reached EOL, even though some 19% of all Macs were still running it, no notification was provided that it would not be receiving patches; it simply stopped getting them. With Ubuntu, EOL date is well advertised even before a version is released. That project follows a fixed release cycle in which all long-term support versions get exactly five years of updates, and all interim releases get 18 months of updates. You know even before you download exactly when it will reach EOL. With all three, once you know it's reached EOL you must either upgrade, or put yourself and your organization at risk. If the post-EOL exploits that occurred with Best Buy and Target a couple summers ago didn't drive the point home clearly enough, yesterday's global attack should: "What, me worry?" is not a sound IT policy. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From harrison at all-auctions.com Sat May 13 12:27:20 2017 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison) Date: Sat, 13 May 2017 12:27:20 -0400 Subject: sysError List? In-Reply-To: <9df69970-58a6-1710-afdf-19d919db1aff@fourthworld.com> References: <803AF16A-C9D6-49D6-A1B2-C8890F734B62@all-auctions.com> <9df69970-58a6-1710-afdf-19d919db1aff@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Hi Richard, Ok, so I did the upgrade to version 8.1.4 RC 2 and after rebooting I found that it made no difference at all. When you are using lc-server and use the following script, what do you get? Thanks, Rick > On May 13, 2017, at 11:15 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > That value is either accurate or inaccurate. Either way, it seems a bug - the question is, where? > > If accurate, it would appear there's something very unusual about your OS config, since temp files are a common necessity in modern OSes. > > If inaccurate, it would appear to be a bug in LC 8.1.4 RC1. > > Have you tried that in 8.1.4 RC2? > http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ > > If the problem is repeatable with the latest build you might want to file a bug report on that. > > FWIW, testing both LC 8.1.4 RC2 and 9.0 DP6 I get a valid path to my system's temp folder. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sat May 13 13:05:06 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Sat, 13 May 2017 20:05:06 +0300 Subject: WannaCry [OT] In-Reply-To: References: <6dfa2416-662b-fe48-a168-63c4322a84b8@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7ecca24c-2bfe-4e4a-8b71-237eb6727fd7@gmail.com> I cannot afford to be smug as my Linux rig (Xubuntu 16.04 64-bit) was hosed completely about 4 months ago and I only managed to reciver about 5% of my files. What I do not understand is how organisations like the British State Health System (NHS) cane be so bl**dy stupid to rely on Windows, without (obviously) all sorts of safeguards. My "underpants" may have a few holes in them, but everyone knows that Windows is more holes than underpants, and it has been quite adequately demonstrated that Windows executables running under WINE on Linux tend to be faster and less vulnerable to viruses. In about 1985, when I was an undergraduate, the news about AIDS was suddenly announced, and the TV and radio was banging on about "preventative measures": obviously the British medical authorities know their stuff re medical matters, but when it comes to computer systems they neither know anything much about them, nor do they employ people who do. ---------- Many years ago I read a science fiction book about people living in a ploice state on Venus, which was, for the purposes of the story, a steamy, soggy jungle planet with lots of muddy, hummocky islands in one big bog. The rebels started communicating via AM radio (Amplitude Modulated) because the authorities of the dictatorship had forgotten about that "old-Tech" and were using FM (Frequency Modulated) equipment for all their communication needs. Three days ago I got an e-mail from a chap in Ireland using a Commodore 64! So, the answer, for us folks who don't have "endless boodle" to constantly upgrade/update our machines, may lie in retreating into using ancient machines . . . . so, I suppose my Summer will be spent on getting a Winchester disc into my BBC Master Compact and sorting out how to get the 5-pin DIMM connection at the back to let me send and recieve e-mail messages: after all, in 1989 I was using it, via Etisalat, to communicate with various services even before the internet started. You cannot send a virus to a BBC because the whole system resides on a ROM chip! Anyway, just at the moment I'm dusting off my G3 iMac running Mac OS 9.2.2 with Classilla. Richmond. On 5/13/17 6:36 pm, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > Richmond Mathewson wrote: > > " The WannaCry virus only infects machines running Windows" > > > > http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-39896393 > > > > Err . . . Linux > > While it's true that this particular exploit is dependent on a > Windows-specific vulnerability, this is no time for smugness. There's > a larger issue here relevant for all of us: > > IF YOUR SYSTEM US NO LONGER RECEIVING UPDATES, IT'S NO LONGER > RECEIVING CRITICAL SECURITY PATCHES FOR KNOWN VULNERABILITIES. > > Any such system, if connected to any network that connects to the > Internet, should be considered too dangerous to use. > > Doesn't matter whether it's Windows, macOS, or Linux. Once the OS has > reached EOL, either upgrade to a supported OS version or turn off all > network connectivity. > > > This exploit has become a global tragedy, but worse is that it appears > to have been preventable: > > Microsoft issued a patch protecting against this months ago, and for > the (shockingly large number of) machines still running XP, Microsoft > spent literally millions over a many years reminding everyone of XP's > EOL date and encouraging them to upgrade to a supported OS version. > > Apple (for reasons only they can discern but AFAIK have not disclosed) > are less kind to their users, often stopping updates without explicit > notice and little if any forewarning. They do advertise when new > versions are available, but generally haven't provided clear notice > when EOL is reached for a given version. For example, when Snow > Leopard reached EOL, even though some 19% of all Macs were still > running it, no notification was provided that it would not be > receiving patches; it simply stopped getting them. > > With Ubuntu, EOL date is well advertised even before a version is > released. That project follows a fixed release cycle in which all > long-term support versions get exactly five years of updates, and all > interim releases get 18 months of updates. You know even before you > download exactly when it will reach EOL. > > With all three, once you know it's reached EOL you must either > upgrade, or put yourself and your organization at risk. > > If the post-EOL exploits that occurred with Best Buy and Target a > couple summers ago didn't drive the point home clearly enough, > yesterday's global attack should: "What, me worry?" is not a sound IT > policy. > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sat May 13 13:06:51 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sat, 13 May 2017 10:06:51 -0700 Subject: sysError List? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I don't normally use LC Server because its syntax cannot be tested in the IDE, preferring to use standalones in server apps. But I just downloaded LCS 8,.1.4 RC2, and running it from the command line with your sample script yields the expected valid path to my temp folder. You may have found a Mac-specific bug worth reporting: http://quality.livecode.com/ -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Rick Harrison wrote: > Hi Richard, > > Ok, so I did the upgrade to version 8.1.4 RC 2 and > after rebooting I found that it made no difference at all. > > When you are using lc-server and use > the following script, what do you get? > > put specialFolderPath("temporary") > ?> > > Thanks, > > Rick > >> On May 13, 2017, at 11:15 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: >> >> That value is either accurate or inaccurate. Either way, it seems a bug - the question is, where? >> >> If accurate, it would appear there's something very unusual about your OS config, since temp files are a common necessity in modern OSes. >> >> If inaccurate, it would appear to be a bug in LC 8.1.4 RC1. >> >> Have you tried that in 8.1.4 RC2? >> http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ >> >> If the problem is repeatable with the latest build you might want to file a bug report on that. >> >> FWIW, testing both LC 8.1.4 RC2 and 9.0 DP6 I get a valid path to my system's temp folder. >> >> -- >> Richard Gaskin >> Fourth World Systems >> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web >> ____________________________________________________________________ >> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sat May 13 13:10:07 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Sat, 13 May 2017 20:10:07 +0300 Subject: Another Stupid Question Message-ID: <2fb6f196-92f3-313e-e268-5e909a39fcd4@gmail.com> What is the point of LiveCode server and how can it be used? Richmond. From jonathandlynch at gmail.com Sat May 13 13:35:19 2017 From: jonathandlynch at gmail.com (jonathandlynch at gmail.com) Date: Sat, 13 May 2017 13:35:19 -0400 Subject: Transparent browser widgets? Message-ID: Apparently, both WebView (android) and uiwebview (iOS) have transparent modes. Would it be easy for the LC team to implement a transparent mode for browser widgets, where the background color is transparent, allowing other objects to show through? This would obviate the need for some the processor intensive image transfers in and out of the widget. I know one would have to set the background-color of the body element to transparent and set a couple of settings in the WebView calls. Is that all it would take? Sent from my iPhone From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sat May 13 13:44:40 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sat, 13 May 2017 10:44:40 -0700 Subject: WannaCry [OT] In-Reply-To: <7ecca24c-2bfe-4e4a-8b71-237eb6727fd7@gmail.com> References: <7ecca24c-2bfe-4e4a-8b71-237eb6727fd7@gmail.com> Message-ID: <6c994bcb-c6f8-a37e-4e76-aec84b6b67b1@fourthworld.com> Richmond Mathewson wrote: > What I do not understand is how organisations like the British State > Health System (NHS) cane be so bl**dy stupid to > rely on Windows, without (obviously) all sorts of safeguards. While this specific exploit happened to be Windows-specific, this isn't really a Windows issue. It's a "USE A SUPPORTED OS VERSION!" issue. From the information available thus far, it looks like Microsoft did their job. They provided protection against this vulnerability months ago, and have been warning people not to use older unsupported OS versions for years. If someone switches from Windows to macOS or Linux, as long as they keep using OS versions beyond EOL they'll still be putting themselves (ansd potentially any system they connect to) at risk. > Anyway, just at the moment I'm dusting off my G3 iMac running Mac OS > 9.2.2 with Classilla. ...hopefully without an Internet connection, since Apple stopped patching that one a long time ago and criminals have learned a lot since then. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sat May 13 13:47:58 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sat, 13 May 2017 10:47:58 -0700 Subject: Another Stupid Question In-Reply-To: <2fb6f196-92f3-313e-e268-5e909a39fcd4@gmail.com> References: <2fb6f196-92f3-313e-e268-5e909a39fcd4@gmail.com> Message-ID: Richmond Mathewson wrote: > What is the point of LiveCode server and how > can it be used? LC Server is a good solution for people who are very accustomed to PHP-style workflows but prefer to use LiveCode Script rather than PHP. Like any app that uses stdin/stdout, it can be used as a CGI under Apache to provide server-side processing for dynamic web pages and other HTTP applications. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sat May 13 13:53:44 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sat, 13 May 2017 10:53:44 -0700 Subject: Transparent browser widgets? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: jonathandlynch wrote: > Apparently, both WebView (android) and uiwebview (iOS) have > transparent modes. > > Would it be easy for the LC team to implement a transparent mode for > browser widgets, where the background color is transparent, allowing > other objects to show through? > > This would obviate the need for some the processor intensive image > transfers in and out of the widget. > > I know one would have to set the background-color of the body element > to transparent and set a couple of settings in the WebView calls. Is > that all it would take? I'd guess that it wouldn't be hard to implement, but much harder to implement in a way performant enough for anyone to want to use. :) I believe the browser widget maintains its own buffer, blitted to screen. This makes it fast, but prevents it from mixing its rendering with LC-native controls. For mixed rendering it would need to render within the compositing process Mark Waddingham outlined here a while back in answer to Jacque's question about acceleratedRendering. My guess would be that doing so as rapidly as a browser might conceivably update would be computationally expensive. That's just a guess, though. I'd be happy to be wrong. Integrated rendering of the browser widget would be nice. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From scott at tactilemedia.com Sat May 13 13:55:03 2017 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Sat, 13 May 2017 10:55:03 -0700 Subject: SVG widget? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Maybe it?s more accurate to say ?one single path definition? because you aren?t limited to a single vector path. You can create compound graphics from multiple paths as is done in many icons and graphics. For example: go url "http://tactilemedia.com/download/svg_sample.livecode" Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design > On May 13, 2017, at 6:56 AM, hh via use-livecode wrote: > > The widget SVG Icon is set up to display at most ONE SINGLE path, > no matter where the path comes from. From capellan2000 at gmail.com Sat May 13 14:16:25 2017 From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada) Date: Sat, 13 May 2017 14:16:25 -0400 Subject: SVG widget? Message-ID: What happened to the multiple color SVG widget? http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=93&t=27811&p=147279#p147286 Al Scott Rossi wrote: > Maybe it?s more accurate to say ?one single path definition? > because you aren?t limited to a single vector path. > You can create compound graphics from multiple paths > as is done in many icons and graphics. > For example: > go url "http://tactilemedia.com/download/svg_sample.livecode" From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sat May 13 16:00:03 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sat, 13 May 2017 23:00:03 +0300 Subject: SVG widget? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3742c073-37bd-4650-dcc4-715e244f8f45@gmail.com> Well . . . . here [ https://livecode.com/resources/roadmap/ ] all that is mentioned is a "SVG vector shape widget" Which is what we've got :/ Obviously full, multi-path SVG import is not being considered. Richmond. On 13.05.2017 21:16, Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode wrote: > What happened to the multiple color SVG widget? > http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=93&t=27811&p=147279#p147286 > > Al > > Scott Rossi wrote: > >> Maybe it?s more accurate to say ?one single path definition? >> because you aren?t limited to a single vector path. >> You can create compound graphics from multiple paths >> as is done in many icons and graphics. >> For example: >> go url "http://tactilemedia.com/download/svg_sample.livecode" > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jonathandlynch at gmail.com Sat May 13 16:15:58 2017 From: jonathandlynch at gmail.com (jonathandlynch at gmail.com) Date: Sat, 13 May 2017 16:15:58 -0400 Subject: SVG widget? In-Reply-To: <3742c073-37bd-4650-dcc4-715e244f8f45@gmail.com> References: <3742c073-37bd-4650-dcc4-715e244f8f45@gmail.com> Message-ID: <9D41CEF9-D6CC-4460-A64D-547F896B7665@gmail.com> I wish they would just buy an svg library and create a real svg object. This seems like such an obvious thing to do. Sent from my iPhone > On May 13, 2017, at 4:00 PM, Richmond via use-livecode wrote: > > Well . . . . > > here [ https://livecode.com/resources/roadmap/ ] all that is mentioned is a > > "SVG vector shape widget" > > Which is what we've got :/ > > Obviously full, multi-path SVG import is not > being considered. > > Richmond. > >> On 13.05.2017 21:16, Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode wrote: >> What happened to the multiple color SVG widget? >> http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=93&t=27811&p=147279#p147286 >> >> Al >> >> Scott Rossi wrote: >> >>> Maybe it?s more accurate to say ?one single path definition? >>> because you aren?t limited to a single vector path. >>> You can create compound graphics from multiple paths >>> as is done in many icons and graphics. >>> For example: >>> go url "http://tactilemedia.com/download/svg_sample.livecode" >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Sat May 13 16:19:58 2017 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Sat, 13 May 2017 16:19:58 -0400 Subject: Another Stupid Question In-Reply-To: References: <2fb6f196-92f3-313e-e268-5e909a39fcd4@gmail.com> Message-ID: Or accessing databases without worrying about local drivers being installed. On May 13, 2017 1:48 PM, "Richard Gaskin via use-livecode" < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Richmond Mathewson wrote: > > > What is the point of LiveCode server and how > > can it be used? > > LC Server is a good solution for people who are very accustomed to > PHP-style workflows but prefer to use LiveCode Script rather than PHP. > > Like any app that uses stdin/stdout, it can be used as a CGI under Apache > to provide server-side processing for dynamic web pages and other HTTP > applications. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From capellan2000 at gmail.com Sat May 13 16:46:16 2017 From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada) Date: Sat, 13 May 2017 16:46:16 -0400 Subject: SVG widget? Message-ID: Peter Thirkell wrote a widget that import SVG with multiple colors. Download this widget source code from this forum post: http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=93&t=27811&p=147279#p147286 Could you compile and use it in your own LiveCode setup? Al From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Sat May 13 18:47:35 2017 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Sat, 13 May 2017 18:47:35 -0400 Subject: WannaCry [OT] In-Reply-To: <7ecca24c-2bfe-4e4a-8b71-237eb6727fd7@gmail.com> References: <6dfa2416-662b-fe48-a168-63c4322a84b8@gmail.com> <7ecca24c-2bfe-4e4a-8b71-237eb6727fd7@gmail.com> Message-ID: <002201d2cc3a$eb3711f0$c1a535d0$@net> I still run batch processing on a pair of VAXs running Open VMS. No viruses on these babies. They've been booted for ... "OpenVMS V7.1 on node ALBVM1 13-MAY-2017 18:44:45.72 Uptime 921 21:52:27" "OpenVMS V7.3-2 on node EISVM1 13-MAY-2017 19:31:56.06 Uptime 72 11:09:55" The lame 72 days on the second VAX is only because I did not get the generator on-line fast enough 72 days ago when I lost street power. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2017 1:05 PM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: Richmond Mathewson Subject: Re: WannaCry [OT] I cannot afford to be smug as my Linux rig (Xubuntu 16.04 64-bit) was hosed completely about 4 months ago and I only managed to reciver about 5% of my files. What I do not understand is how organisations like the British State Health System (NHS) cane be so bl**dy stupid to rely on Windows, without (obviously) all sorts of safeguards. My "underpants" may have a few holes in them, but everyone knows that Windows is more holes than underpants, and it has been quite adequately demonstrated that Windows executables running under WINE on Linux tend to be faster and less vulnerable to viruses. In about 1985, when I was an undergraduate, the news about AIDS was suddenly announced, and the TV and radio was banging on about "preventative measures": obviously the British medical authorities know their stuff re medical matters, but when it comes to computer systems they neither know anything much about them, nor do they employ people who do. ---------- Many years ago I read a science fiction book about people living in a ploice state on Venus, which was, for the purposes of the story, a steamy, soggy jungle planet with lots of muddy, hummocky islands in one big bog. The rebels started communicating via AM radio (Amplitude Modulated) because the authorities of the dictatorship had forgotten about that "old-Tech" and were using FM (Frequency Modulated) equipment for all their communication needs. Three days ago I got an e-mail from a chap in Ireland using a Commodore 64! So, the answer, for us folks who don't have "endless boodle" to constantly upgrade/update our machines, may lie in retreating into using ancient machines . . . . so, I suppose my Summer will be spent on getting a Winchester disc into my BBC Master Compact and sorting out how to get the 5-pin DIMM connection at the back to let me send and recieve e-mail messages: after all, in 1989 I was using it, via Etisalat, to communicate with various services even before the internet started. You cannot send a virus to a BBC because the whole system resides on a ROM chip! Anyway, just at the moment I'm dusting off my G3 iMac running Mac OS 9.2.2 with Classilla. Richmond. On 5/13/17 6:36 pm, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > Richmond Mathewson wrote: > > " The WannaCry virus only infects machines running Windows" > > > > http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-39896393 > > > > Err . . . Linux > > While it's true that this particular exploit is dependent on a > Windows-specific vulnerability, this is no time for smugness. There's > a larger issue here relevant for all of us: > > IF YOUR SYSTEM US NO LONGER RECEIVING UPDATES, IT'S NO LONGER > RECEIVING CRITICAL SECURITY PATCHES FOR KNOWN VULNERABILITIES. > > Any such system, if connected to any network that connects to the > Internet, should be considered too dangerous to use. > > Doesn't matter whether it's Windows, macOS, or Linux. Once the OS has > reached EOL, either upgrade to a supported OS version or turn off all > network connectivity. > > > This exploit has become a global tragedy, but worse is that it appears > to have been preventable: > > Microsoft issued a patch protecting against this months ago, and for > the (shockingly large number of) machines still running XP, Microsoft > spent literally millions over a many years reminding everyone of XP's > EOL date and encouraging them to upgrade to a supported OS version. > > Apple (for reasons only they can discern but AFAIK have not disclosed) > are less kind to their users, often stopping updates without explicit > notice and little if any forewarning. They do advertise when new > versions are available, but generally haven't provided clear notice > when EOL is reached for a given version. For example, when Snow > Leopard reached EOL, even though some 19% of all Macs were still > running it, no notification was provided that it would not be > receiving patches; it simply stopped getting them. > > With Ubuntu, EOL date is well advertised even before a version is > released. That project follows a fixed release cycle in which all > long-term support versions get exactly five years of updates, and all > interim releases get 18 months of updates. You know even before you > download exactly when it will reach EOL. > > With all three, once you know it's reached EOL you must either > upgrade, or put yourself and your organization at risk. > > If the post-EOL exploits that occurred with Best Buy and Target a > couple summers ago didn't drive the point home clearly enough, > yesterday's global attack should: "What, me worry?" is not a sound IT > policy. > _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From hh at hyperhh.de Sat May 13 18:58:59 2017 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Sun, 14 May 2017 00:58:59 +0200 Subject: SVG widget? Message-ID: > Scott R. wrote: > Maybe it?s more accurate to say "one single path definition" > because you aren't limited to a single vector path. You can > create compound graphics from multiple paths as is done in > many icons and graphics. > For example: > go url "http://tactilemedia.com/download/svg_sample.livecode" Yes. If you define path by "connected points" (I haven't seen that in any specification). But your example is a fine example for a nice option we have with the LC-SVG icons: We can simply "merge" some of them to one icon by merging their (textual) iconPathes. From hh at hyperhh.de Sat May 13 19:15:15 2017 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Sun, 14 May 2017 01:15:15 +0200 Subject: Transparent browser widgets? Message-ID: I'll bet that a transparent background for the browser widget is impossible to have. This would require that webkit or Chromium (or whatever LC uses for the browser widget) allow a transparent background. What will be probably possible is setting the blendLevel of the widget (as a whole), see Mark's note here: http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19667 From alex at tweedly.net Sat May 13 19:29:18 2017 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Sun, 14 May 2017 00:29:18 +0100 Subject: Seeking recommendations / suggestions for use of library stacks. Message-ID: <3ddf506a-fc2d-db68-c72a-566ffd432431@tweedly.net> I'm starting to make more use of library stacks (partly because I'm trying to switch away from revIgniter to a CGI-based solution to allow me to do more work & debugging in the IDE). And now I'm looking for best-practice and/or suggestions for how to use library stacks. The not-quite-obvious context is that if some other library is later put into use, and it has no librarystack handler, then the librarystack message can get through to my (already in use) library. My naive approach (from non-LC background) was very simple : all initialisation would be done in the librarystack handler that handler would also set a script-local variable to avoid repeated initialisation so something like local sIHaveBeenInitialized on librarystack if sIHaveBeenInitialized is empty then put the millisecs into sIHaveBeenInitialized else -- setup initial / default values, etc. .... end if end librarystack This is fine for subsequent usage of the library - however, it's not so convenient while working on the library. The problem then is that any changes made to the initialization won't take effect unless I either manually unset this script-local, or exit / re-enter the IDE. I thought about adding a reset handler, e.g. on library_reset put empty int sIHaveBeenInitialized pass library_reset end library_reset which would give me a quick, safe and easy way to reset any (all) libraries from the message box. But then I thought it felt like I was rediscovering a wheel - so I thought I'd ask on here :-) Is there another easier / better way to handle this ? Thanks Alex. From jonathandlynch at gmail.com Sat May 13 20:42:13 2017 From: jonathandlynch at gmail.com (jonathandlynch at gmail.com) Date: Sat, 13 May 2017 20:42:13 -0400 Subject: Transparent browser widgets? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9735B8ED-37EF-49DB-85EB-8481CB8D4EA9@gmail.com> I used to have an occasional bug in 8.1.3 where the browser widget would get a transparent background. I had to restart the ide when that happened. So, I think it may be possible. Sent from my iPhone > On May 13, 2017, at 7:15 PM, hh via use-livecode wrote: > > I'll bet that a transparent background for the browser widget is > impossible to have. This would require that webkit or Chromium > (or whatever LC uses for the browser widget) allow a transparent > background. > > What will be probably possible is setting the blendLevel of the > widget (as a whole), see Mark's note here: > http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19667 > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From waprothero at gmail.com Sat May 13 22:53:03 2017 From: waprothero at gmail.com (William Prothero) Date: Sat, 13 May 2017 19:53:03 -0700 Subject: SVG widget? In-Reply-To: <9D41CEF9-D6CC-4460-A64D-547F896B7665@gmail.com> References: <3742c073-37bd-4650-dcc4-715e244f8f45@gmail.com> <9D41CEF9-D6CC-4460-A64D-547F896B7665@gmail.com> Message-ID: <35327A4D-FCF0-4364-B33F-D4A326221C0A@gmail.com> I wonder too. Seems with all the demand for SVG, it would be a natural to build into the engine. I?m trying to remember if getting SVG was a kickstarter goal??? Best, Bill P > On May 13, 2017, at 1:15 PM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode wrote: > > I wish they would just buy an svg library and create a real svg object. This seems like such an obvious thing to do. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On May 13, 2017, at 4:00 PM, Richmond via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Well . . . . >> >> here [ https://livecode.com/resources/roadmap/ ] all that is mentioned is a >> >> "SVG vector shape widget" >> >> Which is what we've got :/ >> >> Obviously full, multi-path SVG import is not >> being considered. >> >> Richmond. >> >>> On 13.05.2017 21:16, Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode wrote: >>> What happened to the multiple color SVG widget? >>> http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=93&t=27811&p=147279#p147286 >>> >>> Al >>> >>> Scott Rossi wrote: >>> >>>> Maybe it?s more accurate to say ?one single path definition? >>>> because you aren?t limited to a single vector path. >>>> You can create compound graphics from multiple paths >>>> as is done in many icons and graphics. >>>> For example: >>>> go url "http://tactilemedia.com/download/svg_sample.livecode" >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From selander at tkf.att.ne.jp Sun May 14 01:25:42 2017 From: selander at tkf.att.ne.jp (Tim Selander) Date: Sun, 14 May 2017 14:25:42 +0900 Subject: IP to decimal function? Message-ID: <5917EA56.3070307@tkf.att.ne.jp> Hi I need to convert IP address from web logs to decimal for easier processing... Before I try to "reinvent the wheel" (and no doubt roll off a cliff) I'm wondering if anyone already has such a function they'd be willing to share? TIA Tim Selander Tokyo, Japan From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sun May 14 04:02:47 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Sun, 14 May 2017 11:02:47 +0300 Subject: IP to decimal function? In-Reply-To: <5917EA56.3070307@tkf.att.ne.jp> References: <5917EA56.3070307@tkf.att.ne.jp> Message-ID: <5a0588fc-49c0-2ddb-472b-7d2fe72c42f0@gmail.com> I almost never know anything, but I do know where to look to find out: https://www.mkyong.com/java/java-convert-ip-address-to-decimal-number/ Hope that spoils your Sunday :) Richmond. On 5/14/17 8:25 am, Tim Selander via use-livecode wrote: > Hi > > I need to convert IP address from web logs to decimal for easier > processing... > > Before I try to "reinvent the wheel" (and no doubt roll off a cliff) > I'm wondering if anyone already has such a function they'd be willing > to share? > > TIA > > Tim Selander > Tokyo, Japan > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sun May 14 04:29:32 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Sun, 14 May 2017 11:29:32 +0300 Subject: IP to decimal function? In-Reply-To: <5917EA56.3070307@tkf.att.ne.jp> References: <5917EA56.3070307@tkf.att.ne.jp> Message-ID: All done: Here: http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=29251 Best, Richmond. On 5/14/17 8:25 am, Tim Selander via use-livecode wrote: > Hi > > I need to convert IP address from web logs to decimal for easier > processing... > > Before I try to "reinvent the wheel" (and no doubt roll off a cliff) > I'm wondering if anyone already has such a function they'd be willing > to share? > > TIA > > Tim Selander > Tokyo, Japan > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From selander at tkf.att.ne.jp Sun May 14 06:13:28 2017 From: selander at tkf.att.ne.jp (Tim Selander) Date: Sun, 14 May 2017 19:13:28 +0900 Subject: IP to decimal function? In-Reply-To: <5a0588fc-49c0-2ddb-472b-7d2fe72c42f0@gmail.com> References: <5917EA56.3070307@tkf.att.ne.jp> <5a0588fc-49c0-2ddb-472b-7d2fe72c42f0@gmail.com> Message-ID: <59182DC8.4010307@tkf.att.ne.jp> Hi Richmond, Thanks for your stack! Wow! I'm in the process of testing and 'function-fying' it. I did google around and found pages like your java link... but my arithmetic skills are so basic, it all just looked like, well, Sanskrit...... ;-) Tim Selander Tokyo, Japan On 2017.05.14, 17:02, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: > I almost never know anything, but I do know where to look to find > out: > > https://www.mkyong.com/java/java-convert-ip-address-to-decimal-number/ > > > Hope that spoils your Sunday :) > > Richmond. > > On 5/14/17 8:25 am, Tim Selander via use-livecode wrote: >> Hi >> >> I need to convert IP address from web logs to decimal for >> easier processing... >> >> Before I try to "reinvent the wheel" (and no doubt roll off a >> cliff) I'm wondering if anyone already has such a function >> they'd be willing to share? >> >> TIA >> >> Tim Selander >> Tokyo, Japan >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From rabit at revigniter.com Sun May 14 07:20:18 2017 From: rabit at revigniter.com (Ralf Bitter) Date: Sun, 14 May 2017 13:20:18 +0200 Subject: sysError List? In-Reply-To: References: <803AF16A-C9D6-49D6-A1B2-C8890F734B62@all-auctions.com> <9df69970-58a6-1710-afdf-19d919db1aff@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: MacOS 10.12.4 LC server 8.1.4-rc-2 Your script works as expected here, yields the path to the temporary items folder. Ralf > On 13. May 2017, at 18:27, Rick Harrison via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi Richard, > > Ok, so I did the upgrade to version 8.1.4 RC 2 and > after rebooting I found that it made no difference at all. > > When you are using lc-server and use > the following script, what do you get? > > put specialFolderPath("temporary") > ?> > > Thanks, > > Rick From harrison at all-auctions.com Sun May 14 09:51:26 2017 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison) Date: Sun, 14 May 2017 09:51:26 -0400 Subject: sysError List? In-Reply-To: References: <803AF16A-C9D6-49D6-A1B2-C8890F734B62@all-auctions.com> <9df69970-58a6-1710-afdf-19d919db1aff@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <645B09AA-E455-4109-9264-2B4499429C92@all-auctions.com> Hi Ralf, Are you doing this in an LC Server by accessing the script through a web-browser such as Safari? As I?m not getting a path - what path are you getting specifically? I?m still trying to locate where my temp files are ending up. I don?t know if they are just going to the bit bucket in the sky or what! If this is working for you given the above parameters then it probably means it isn?t a bug with LC but a problem with my system or some quirk with setup of the server. Thanks in advance. Rick > On May 14, 2017, at 7:20 AM, Ralf Bitter via use-livecode wrote: > > MacOS 10.12.4 > LC server 8.1.4-rc-2 > > Your script works as expected here, > yields the path to the temporary items folder. > > > Ralf From rabit at revigniter.com Sun May 14 12:05:26 2017 From: rabit at revigniter.com (Ralf Bitter) Date: Sun, 14 May 2017 18:05:26 +0200 Subject: sysError List? In-Reply-To: <645B09AA-E455-4109-9264-2B4499429C92@all-auctions.com> References: <803AF16A-C9D6-49D6-A1B2-C8890F734B62@all-auctions.com> <9df69970-58a6-1710-afdf-19d919db1aff@fourthworld.com> <645B09AA-E455-4109-9264-2B4499429C92@all-auctions.com> Message-ID: <7B6444FD-188B-46FC-AEFF-786EA9EE1837@revigniter.com> Hi Rick, > On 14. May 2017, at 15:51, Rick Harrison via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi Ralf, > > Are you doing this in an LC Server > by accessing the script through a > web-browser such as Safari? yes, the path the script yields is: /private/var/folders/zz/zyxvpxvq6csfxvn_n000008r000026/T/TemporaryItems no matter which browser I use. > > As I?m not getting a path - what > path are you getting specifically? > I?m still trying to locate where my > temp files are ending up. I don?t > know if they are just going to the > bit bucket in the sky or what! > > If this is working for you given the > above parameters then it probably > means it isn?t a bug with LC but > a problem with my system or > some quirk with setup of the server. > > Thanks in advance. > > Rick Ralf From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Sun May 14 15:34:52 2017 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Sun, 14 May 2017 15:34:52 -0400 Subject: Browser Widget on Mobile In-Reply-To: <7B6444FD-188B-46FC-AEFF-786EA9EE1837@revigniter.com> References: <803AF16A-C9D6-49D6-A1B2-C8890F734B62@all-auctions.com> <9df69970-58a6-1710-afdf-19d919db1aff@fourthworld.com> <645B09AA-E455-4109-9264-2B4499429C92@all-auctions.com> <7B6444FD-188B-46FC-AEFF-786EA9EE1837@revigniter.com> Message-ID: <003701d2cce9$28b20f90$7a162eb0$@net> I can't seem to find the Browser Widget equivalent of mobileControlGet "canRetreat" and "canAdvance". Do these exist or do I have to go back to the old school mobileControlCreate method? Thanks for any insights! Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net From terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au Sun May 14 21:51:13 2017 From: terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd) Date: Mon, 15 May 2017 01:51:13 +0000 Subject: Loss of internet connectivity in IDE after a while Message-ID: <226B74BE-55CC-4D28-BCC8-9F5EB7477030@unimelb.edu.au> I?m using 8.1.3 (Business licence) on the Mac and I?ve notice a few times that the IDE seems to be unresponsive to URL requests after a while. If for example I do something simple like... Put url http://www.google.com then I get the following error... Message execution error: Error description: Function: error in function handler Hint: ulExtIsBlocked Before I log a bug report, does anyone know what this means and if there is any way to ?unblock? it (other than quitting and restarting LC). I also need to be very confident that this problem isn?t going to surface on the iPad app that I?m currently updating. Regards, Terry... Terry Judd | Senior Lecturer in Medical Education Department of Medical Education The University of Melbourne M: 0435 961 594 | E: terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au Publications From capellan2000 at gmail.com Sun May 14 23:01:43 2017 From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada) Date: Sun, 14 May 2017 23:01:43 -0400 Subject: [OT] Tom Pittman in Portland Message-ID: Hi All, Recently, I was reading the first 78 pages of Gary Kildall 1993 unpublished book's: "Computer Connections: People, Places, and Events in the Evolution of the Personal Computer Industry" that you could download from this webpage: http://www.computerhistory.org/atchm/in-his-own-words-gary-kildall/ On page 42, I found this reference about Tom Pittman (creator of Compile-It and many Programs and Developer Tools) "Tom is the first personal computer developer and user. (Later, Tom wrote Tiny-C, for which he is best known.) Clever Tom wrote a "monitor" for the 4004, and a small assembler that actually ran on the SIM4-01 itself. This, in effect, was the first self-hosted single chip microprocessor development system. Tom's "monitor" took 257 bytes, one more than the 1702 EPROM could hold. He condensed that to 256 bytes without changing the monitor. Ask him how he did it if you run into old Tom, or if you ask me, maybe I'll tell you." 23 years after Gary Kildall wrote this, you could learn the answer from Tom Pittman himself if you live in Portland (or near). >From July 25 through August 11, 2017 Computer Science department of Portland State University will offer the NWAPW, an intensive three-week program for students who are highly motivated by their interest in the field of computer science. Tom Pittman joined this year staff: http://nwapw.org/instructors/ Of course, if you do not live in Portland, you could always write him to his website's email direction. In his website, there is an article that he wrote before The Computer Museum published Gary Kildall's book first 78 pages, but this article does not answer this question. http://www.ittybittycomputers.com/Essays/My1stComputer.htm Al From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sun May 14 23:25:50 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sun, 14 May 2017 22:25:50 -0500 Subject: Loss of internet connectivity in IDE after a while In-Reply-To: <226B74BE-55CC-4D28-BCC8-9F5EB7477030@unimelb.edu.au> References: <226B74BE-55CC-4D28-BCC8-9F5EB7477030@unimelb.edu.au> Message-ID: <9ccff7d9-2278-6f04-d22a-e53e8a3c3cb4@hyperactivesw.com> On 5/14/17 8:51 PM, Terry Judd via use-livecode wrote: > I?m using 8.1.3 (Business licence) on the Mac and I?ve notice a few times that the IDE seems to be unresponsive to URL requests after a while. If for example I do something simple like... > > Put url http://www.google.com > > then I get the following error... > > Message execution error: > Error description: Function: error in function handler > Hint: ulExtIsBlocked > > Before I log a bug report, does anyone know what this means and if there is any way to ?unblock? it (other than quitting and restarting LC). I also need to be very confident that this problem isn?t going to surface on the iPad app that I?m currently updating. It's a bug, already reported and fixed in 8.1.4. It happens when you run the stack in the simulator or build an app. In the IDE you can type "start using stack tsNetLibUrl" into the message box to reload the tsNet external, but it's probably easier to just move to 8.1.4. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au Mon May 15 00:01:14 2017 From: terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd) Date: Mon, 15 May 2017 04:01:14 +0000 Subject: Loss of internet connectivity in IDE after a while In-Reply-To: <9ccff7d9-2278-6f04-d22a-e53e8a3c3cb4@hyperactivesw.com> References: <226B74BE-55CC-4D28-BCC8-9F5EB7477030@unimelb.edu.au> <9ccff7d9-2278-6f04-d22a-e53e8a3c3cb4@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <25B73D1F-7C1E-433C-8AC9-0320AB42FF6D@unimelb.edu.au> Ah ? that?s really helpful (and reassuring). I?ll move to 8.1.4 now. Thanks, Terry... On 15/05/2017 1:25 pm, "use-livecode on behalf of J. Landman Gay via use-livecode" wrote: On 5/14/17 8:51 PM, Terry Judd via use-livecode wrote: > I?m using 8.1.3 (Business licence) on the Mac and I?ve notice a few times that the IDE seems to be unresponsive to URL requests after a while. If for example I do something simple like... > > Put url http://www.google.com > > then I get the following error... > > Message execution error: > Error description: Function: error in function handler > Hint: ulExtIsBlocked > > Before I log a bug report, does anyone know what this means and if there is any way to ?unblock? it (other than quitting and restarting LC). I also need to be very confident that this problem isn?t going to surface on the iPad app that I?m currently updating. It's a bug, already reported and fixed in 8.1.4. It happens when you run the stack in the simulator or build an app. In the IDE you can type "start using stack tsNetLibUrl" into the message box to reload the tsNet external, but it's probably easier to just move to 8.1.4. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon May 15 01:12:09 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 15 May 2017 00:12:09 -0500 Subject: Seeking recommendations / suggestions for use of library stacks. In-Reply-To: <3ddf506a-fc2d-db68-c72a-566ffd432431@tweedly.net> References: <3ddf506a-fc2d-db68-c72a-566ffd432431@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <021bde96-9a4c-3a44-146d-183caa234b6f@hyperactivesw.com> On 5/13/17 6:29 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote: > > all initialisation would be done in the librarystack handler > > that handler would also set a script-local variable to avoid repeated > initialisation > > so something like > > local sIHaveBeenInitialized > on librarystack > if sIHaveBeenInitialized is empty then > put the millisecs into sIHaveBeenInitialized > else > -- setup initial / default values, etc. > .... > end if > end librarystack > > This is fine for subsequent usage of the library - however, it's not so > convenient while working on the library. The problem then is that any > changes made to the initialization won't take effect unless I either > manually unset this script-local, or exit / re-enter the IDE. > > I thought about adding a reset handler, e.g. > > on library_reset > put empty int sIHaveBeenInitialized > pass library_reset > end library_reset > > which would give me a quick, safe and easy way to reset any (all) > libraries from the message box. But then I thought it felt like I was > rediscovering a wheel - so I thought I'd ask on here :-) > > Is there another easier / better way to handle this ? That's often what I do too. Calling a reset handler from the message box is pretty simple. Or if the logic allows it, sometimes I add a check for the environment to the initialization handler. If the environment is "development" then I re-initialize. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From dvglasgow at gmail.com Mon May 15 04:07:25 2017 From: dvglasgow at gmail.com (David V Glasgow) Date: Mon, 15 May 2017 09:07:25 +0100 Subject: WannaCry [OT] In-Reply-To: <7ecca24c-2bfe-4e4a-8b71-237eb6727fd7@gmail.com> References: <6dfa2416-662b-fe48-a168-63c4322a84b8@gmail.com> <7ecca24c-2bfe-4e4a-8b71-237eb6727fd7@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5F1D259A-7708-4793-8860-3F5421880B15@gmail.com> > On 13 May 2017, at 6:05 pm, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: > > What I do not understand is how organisations like the British State Health System (NHS) cane be so bl**dy stupid to > rely on Windows, without (obviously) all sorts of safeguards. I recently finished a fixed term contract working for a pretty IT savvy NHS Trust. The NHS has been forced by central government to reallocate IT (and other infrastructure) monies to front line services. They are also trapped by legacy software with dependencies on old (and proprietary) Windows systems and software. Now obviously stupid, but actually historic stupidity which was in the 1990s disguised as good business and standard practice. Not to mention the Clinical Information Systems which look and behave as if it is still the 1990?s. Apart from that, everything is fine. Best wishes, David Glasgow From ali.lloyd at livecode.com Mon May 15 04:40:19 2017 From: ali.lloyd at livecode.com (Ali Lloyd) Date: Mon, 15 May 2017 08:40:19 +0000 Subject: Seeking recommendations / suggestions for use of library stacks. In-Reply-To: <021bde96-9a4c-3a44-146d-183caa234b6f@hyperactivesw.com> References: <3ddf506a-fc2d-db68-c72a-566ffd432431@tweedly.net> <021bde96-9a4c-3a44-146d-183caa234b6f@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: One simple way to make this slightly nicer would be to make sure all your initialisation happens in a separate handler eg (doLibraryInitialization), and use your script local lock in the libraryStack handler > local sIHaveBeenInitialized > on librarystack > if sIHaveBeenInitialized is empty then > put the millisecs into sIHaveBeenInitialized > else > doLibraryInitialization > end if > end librarystack Then you don't need a separate library_reset handler, just call doLibraryInitialization from the message box. Of course you still might want to flip it from public to private once you deploy. From mark at livecode.com Mon May 15 07:00:24 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Mon, 15 May 2017 13:00:24 +0200 Subject: WannaCry [OT] In-Reply-To: <7ecca24c-2bfe-4e4a-8b71-237eb6727fd7@gmail.com> References: <6dfa2416-662b-fe48-a168-63c4322a84b8@gmail.com> <7ecca24c-2bfe-4e4a-8b71-237eb6727fd7@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4d685dd34e456eb6dbebe490c03a0621@livecode.com> On 2017-05-13 19:05, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: > You cannot send a virus to a BBC because the whole system resides on a > ROM chip! Not true - if you have any persistent storage attached to a system (e.g. your winchester disk), and that system interacts with data which comes from outside (via the DIMM port) then 'all' an attacker needs to do is find a vulnerability in the code which executes when receiving data on that port allowing arbitrary code to be executed (which would be hidden in the message), and find a place it can inject itself onto your persistent storage which is loaded into memory and executed and the rest is history... Of course, the amount of return you'd get on trying to hack such ancient setups is probably zero so you are probably fine. However, lots of legacy systems still run mission critical infrastructure around the globe so age of systems has nothing to do with vulnerability - as soon as it connects to any external information source whether it be humans, or the internet there is potential risk. For example there was a whole raft of virii on Acorn Archimedes machines - usually distributed via tweaking the boot record of floppy discs to inject malicious code; and around the same time MS had to do something about AutoRun - which was the source of a great deal of viral infections when people handed around USB sticks without thinking. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mark at livecode.com Mon May 15 07:01:10 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Mon, 15 May 2017 13:01:10 +0200 Subject: WannaCry [OT] In-Reply-To: <6dfa2416-662b-fe48-a168-63c4322a84b8@gmail.com> References: <6dfa2416-662b-fe48-a168-63c4322a84b8@gmail.com> Message-ID: <452b978a20e12514d14b208ad45c3ba8@livecode.com> On 2017-05-13 16:53, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: > " The WannaCry virus only infects machines running Windows" > > http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-39896393 > > Err . . . Linux *cough* Heartbleed *cough* ;) Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mark at livecode.com Mon May 15 07:10:50 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Mon, 15 May 2017 13:10:50 +0200 Subject: SVG =?UTF-8?Q?widget=3F?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46b92c96a2b3216c3849860b8ced5e79@livecode.com> On 2017-05-14 00:58, hh via use-livecode wrote: >> Scott R. wrote: >> Maybe it?s more accurate to say "one single path definition" >> because you aren't limited to a single vector path. You can >> create compound graphics from multiple paths as is done in >> many icons and graphics. >> For example: >> go url "http://tactilemedia.com/download/svg_sample.livecode" > > Yes. If you define path by "connected points" (I haven't seen > that in any specification). > SVG paths are an extension of PostScript paths - these are a sequence of disjoint subpaths. You can have as many such subpaths as you like. However, they are always rendered as 'one thing' which is where the fillRule (evenodd or nonzero) and direction of the subpaths comes into play to decide which parts are filled and which parts are not. A good illustrated example is given here: http://commons.oreilly.com/wiki/index.php/SVG_Essentials/Paths Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From panos.merakos at livecode.com Mon May 15 07:18:57 2017 From: panos.merakos at livecode.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Mon, 15 May 2017 12:18:57 +0100 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 82 Message-ID: Hi all, Read about new developments in LiveCode open source and the open source community in today's edition of the "This Week in LiveCode" newsletter! Read issue #82 here: https://goo.gl/8HNhau This is a weekly newsletter about LiveCode, focussing on what's been going on in and around the open source project. New issues will be released weekly on Mondays. We have a dedicated mailing list that will deliver each issue directly to you e-mail, so you don't miss any! If you have anything you'd like mentioned (a project, a discussion somewhere, an upcoming event) then please get in touch. -- Panagiotis Merakos LiveCode Software Developer Everyone Can Create Apps From mark at livecode.com Mon May 15 07:19:18 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Mon, 15 May 2017 13:19:18 +0200 Subject: Transparent browser =?UTF-8?Q?widgets=3F?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 2017-05-13 19:35, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode wrote: > Apparently, both WebView (android) and uiwebview (iOS) have transparent > modes. > > Would it be easy for the LC team to implement a transparent mode for > browser widgets, where the background color is transparent, allowing > other objects to show through? > > This would obviate the need for some the processor intensive image > transfers in and out of the widget. > > I know one would have to set the background-color of the body element > to transparent and set a couple of settings in the WebView calls. Is > that all it would take? The browser widget uses a system 'view' (UIView on Mac, View on Android, HWND on Windows, NSView on Mac and X11 Window on Linux) to host the browser control - thus whether or not they can be composited with a transparent background depends on the system. For Mac, Android and iOS it is probably possible by just toggling a flag to say whether the view is opaque or not (although I've not looked into it). For Windows, Linux things are more tricky - as it requires that child windows composite into the parent window. The 'traditional' model on those platforms is that child windows are islands-on-their-own. That being said, CEF does have a windowless mode in more recent versions which might be usable to get a similar effect. However, I'm not sure what would be involved in providing that as a choice. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From jonathandlynch at gmail.com Mon May 15 07:35:36 2017 From: jonathandlynch at gmail.com (jonathandlynch at gmail.com) Date: Mon, 15 May 2017 07:35:36 -0400 Subject: Transparent browser widgets? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <958A11D8-324D-4EBB-86B4-ED860742DBB7@gmail.com> Hi Mark, Would you guys consider looking into this further? It would give developers so many presentation options. Sent from my iPhone > On May 15, 2017, at 7:19 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: > >> On 2017-05-13 19:35, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode wrote: >> Apparently, both WebView (android) and uiwebview (iOS) have transparent modes. >> Would it be easy for the LC team to implement a transparent mode for >> browser widgets, where the background color is transparent, allowing >> other objects to show through? >> This would obviate the need for some the processor intensive image >> transfers in and out of the widget. >> I know one would have to set the background-color of the body element >> to transparent and set a couple of settings in the WebView calls. Is >> that all it would take? > > The browser widget uses a system 'view' (UIView on Mac, View on Android, > HWND on Windows, NSView on Mac and X11 Window on Linux) to host the browser > control - thus whether or not they can be composited with a transparent > background depends on the system. > > For Mac, Android and iOS it is probably possible by just toggling a flag > to say whether the view is opaque or not (although I've not looked into > it). > > For Windows, Linux things are more tricky - as it requires that child > windows composite into the parent window. The 'traditional' model on those > platforms is that child windows are islands-on-their-own. That being said, > CEF does have a windowless mode in more recent versions which might be > usable to get a similar effect. However, I'm not sure what would be involved > in providing that as a choice. > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > > -- > Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ > LiveCode: Everyone can create apps > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mark at livecode.com Mon May 15 08:12:42 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Mon, 15 May 2017 14:12:42 +0200 Subject: Transparent browser =?UTF-8?Q?widgets=3F?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9f3090a683c3d189e6e8247ef143cbb5@livecode.com> I've added: http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19697 As an enhancement request for an 'opaque' property - at least on Mac, Android and iOS. There is also this: http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17613 Which, again, should be feasible on Mac, Android and iOS. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon May 15 10:43:50 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 15 May 2017 07:43:50 -0700 Subject: Transparent browser widgets? In-Reply-To: <9f3090a683c3d189e6e8247ef143cbb5@livecode.com> References: <9f3090a683c3d189e6e8247ef143cbb5@livecode.com> Message-ID: Mark Waddingham wrote: > I've added: > > http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19697 > > As an enhancement request for an 'opaque' property - at least on > Mac, Android and iOS. > > There is also this: > > http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17613 > > Which, again, should be feasible on Mac, Android and iOS. These nuances will no doubt be useful on those platforms - thanks. Any chance we'll see the ability to play audio and video at all in Linux restored? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon May 15 10:56:38 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 15 May 2017 07:56:38 -0700 Subject: WannaCry [OT] In-Reply-To: <5F1D259A-7708-4793-8860-3F5421880B15@gmail.com> References: <5F1D259A-7708-4793-8860-3F5421880B15@gmail.com> Message-ID: <45558675-2fd8-ddc5-4149-d67ea149c909@fourthworld.com> David V Glasgow wrote: > I recently finished a fixed term contract working for a pretty IT > savvy NHS Trust. The NHS has been forced by central government to > reallocate IT (and other infrastructure) monies to front line > services. They are also trapped by legacy software with dependencies > on old (and proprietary) Windows systems and software. Now obviously > stupid, but actually historic stupidity which was in the 1990s > disguised as good business and standard practice. > > Not to mention the Clinical Information Systems which look and behave > as if it is still the 1990?s. > > Apart from that, everything is fine. That's the sad reality of so many security budgets: they don't become adequate until after it's too late. The dependency on older unsafe software versions is one that's always mystified me. I once worked for a vendor whose clients included several large hospital networks, and one of them required us to deliver our app in a way that would maintain compatibility with IE 6, years after Microsoft warned customers to stop using it. Subsequent versions of a software are generally supersets of features found in earlier versions, with the only things missing as we go forward being bugs. When written to spec, it should move forward gracefully. Microsoft has done a better job of maintaining backward compatibility than most. So if someone writes an app that doesn't work going forward, dependent on things specific to an outdated system, in effect their app is dependent on bugs. For any org to consider bug-dependent software "mission critical" should raise eyebrows. For a hospital it seems even more serious. But I understand how budgets tend to gloss over things like this. And this week, even the most reluctant orgs do too. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Mon May 15 11:01:30 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Mon, 15 May 2017 15:01:30 +0000 Subject: IP to decimal function? In-Reply-To: <5917EA56.3070307@tkf.att.ne.jp> References: <5917EA56.3070307@tkf.att.ne.jp> Message-ID: <4232FFFC-5DFC-44CB-B4E3-9F2CB4F087D2@iotecdigital.com> I wrote something of the sort called IPCalc. It should be in the master library. Bob S > On May 13, 2017, at 22:25 , Tim Selander via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi > > I need to convert IP address from web logs to decimal for easier processing... > > Before I try to "reinvent the wheel" (and no doubt roll off a cliff) I'm wondering if anyone already has such a function they'd be willing to share? > > TIA > > Tim Selander > Tokyo, Japan > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From brahma at hindu.org Mon May 15 11:28:21 2017 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Mon, 15 May 2017 15:28:21 +0000 Subject: Dispatching Messages to Closed Stacks Which Are Not in Memory Message-ID: I just discovered something fascinating. Stack "Gems" is in the stack files but closed, in fact all stacks in this modular frame work are set to destroy window and stack on close. -- look at project browser: confirmed? stack Is *not* open Stack "gems" has this in it's stack script: on journalResume -- see close card to look at values passed to the dbase that are returned here -- triggered from model_SivaSivaJournal with -- dispatch "journalresume" to stack tEntryA["module"] with tDataA, tEntryA answer "Got the Resume Message" with "OK" end journalResume OK now? in stack "Journal" (think of it like a super robust history of user's activities ala OLP child system) we have this dispatch "journalresume" to stack tEntryA["module"] with tDataA, tEntryA which in this case will be dispatch "journalresume" to stack "gems" with tDataA, tEntryA which when fired, triggers the journalResume handler in stack "gems" *even though it is not open* how can that be? BR From jonathandlynch at gmail.com Mon May 15 11:35:45 2017 From: jonathandlynch at gmail.com (jonathandlynch at gmail.com) Date: Mon, 15 May 2017 11:35:45 -0400 Subject: Transparent browser widgets? In-Reply-To: <9f3090a683c3d189e6e8247ef143cbb5@livecode.com> References: <9f3090a683c3d189e6e8247ef143cbb5@livecode.com> Message-ID: <7BD83707-47A0-4ACC-88B9-7649FA87A72A@gmail.com> Thank you for this, Mark. I realize how many improvement requests the LC staff has to handle, so I do understand why we cannot all have our way whenever we make a request. Sent from my iPhone > On May 15, 2017, at 8:12 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: > > I've added: > > http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19697 > > As an enhancement request for an 'opaque' property - at least on > Mac, Android and iOS. > > There is also this: > > http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17613 > > Which, again, should be feasible on Mac, Android and iOS. > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > > -- > Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ > LiveCode: Everyone can create apps > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mark at livecode.com Mon May 15 12:03:45 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Mon, 15 May 2017 18:03:45 +0200 Subject: Transparent browser =?UTF-8?Q?widgets=3F?= In-Reply-To: References: <9f3090a683c3d189e6e8247ef143cbb5@livecode.com> Message-ID: <3a901faa899004f3527df281fc0c6b13@livecode.com> On 2017-05-15 16:43, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > Any chance we'll see the ability to play audio and video at all in > Linux restored? I'm not quite sure what relation that has to 'Transparent Browser Widget'... Re-implementing audio and video in Linux is not currently on our near term todo list. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Mon May 15 12:11:38 2017 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Mon, 15 May 2017 12:11:38 -0400 Subject: WannaCry [OT] In-Reply-To: <45558675-2fd8-ddc5-4149-d67ea149c909@fourthworld.com> References: <5F1D259A-7708-4793-8860-3F5421880B15@gmail.com> <45558675-2fd8-ddc5-4149-d67ea149c909@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Unfortunately, there are very expensive pieces of gear that have controls on them that for one reason or another cannot be controlled by OS's newer than XP. I happen to have one, here. It cost $750,000. There is no dealing with the OS issue without replacing the control, and that is also extremely expensive, on the order of $400,000, so you would not replace the control without replacing the whole unit. M$, when they decided to dump the XP paradigm, just like when they got rid of DOS, broke upgradability for ATM's, machine tools and CMM's, X-Ray and MRI machines, PBX's, etc. On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 10:56 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > David V Glasgow wrote: > > > I recently finished a fixed term contract working for a pretty IT > > savvy NHS Trust. The NHS has been forced by central government to > > reallocate IT (and other infrastructure) monies to front line > > services. They are also trapped by legacy software with dependencies > > on old (and proprietary) Windows systems and software. Now obviously > > stupid, but actually historic stupidity which was in the 1990s > > disguised as good business and standard practice. > > > > Not to mention the Clinical Information Systems which look and behave > > as if it is still the 1990?s. > > > > Apart from that, everything is fine. > > That's the sad reality of so many security budgets: they don't become > adequate until after it's too late. > > The dependency on older unsafe software versions is one that's always > mystified me. I once worked for a vendor whose clients included several > large hospital networks, and one of them required us to deliver our app in > a way that would maintain compatibility with IE 6, years after Microsoft > warned customers to stop using it. > > Subsequent versions of a software are generally supersets of features > found in earlier versions, with the only things missing as we go forward > being bugs. > > When written to spec, it should move forward gracefully. Microsoft has > done a better job of maintaining backward compatibility than most. > > So if someone writes an app that doesn't work going forward, dependent on > things specific to an outdated system, in effect their app is dependent on > bugs. > > For any org to consider bug-dependent software "mission critical" should > raise eyebrows. For a hospital it seems even more serious. > > But I understand how budgets tend to gloss over things like this. And > this week, even the most reluctant orgs do too. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon May 15 12:28:43 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 15 May 2017 09:28:43 -0700 Subject: WannaCry [OT] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9487b640-e096-74a5-d1e1-a928fb402d9b@fourthworld.com> Mike Kerner wrote: > Unfortunately, there are very expensive pieces of gear that have > controls on them that for one reason or another cannot be controlled > by OS's newer than XP. I happen to have one, here. It cost > $750,000. There is no dealing with the OS issue without replacing > the control, and that is also extremely expensive, on the order of > $400,000, so you would not replace the control without replacing the > whole unit. M$, when they decided to dump the XP paradigm, just like > when they got rid of DOS, broke upgradability for ATM's, machine > tools and CMM's, X-Ray and MRI machines, PBX's, etc. All systems eventually reach end-of-life. If a vendor has enough technical expertise to deliver hardware worth $750k, it seems reasonable to expect that expertise would include sufficient familiarity with system life cycles to anticipate a need for modular upgrades. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Mon May 15 12:47:26 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Mon, 15 May 2017 16:47:26 +0000 Subject: WannaCry [OT] In-Reply-To: <9487b640-e096-74a5-d1e1-a928fb402d9b@fourthworld.com> References: <9487b640-e096-74a5-d1e1-a928fb402d9b@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <2B33E6DA-07E4-4661-ABFD-81736C3AD936@iotecdigital.com> Agreed Richard. And yet, here we are. My Dad for years had to run an old Windows 98 box because he had purchased devices and DOS applications for integrating with his radio system which would only talk directly to the device, and would not access a Windows driver to do it. We pay our money and we take our chance. Bob S > On May 15, 2017, at 09:28 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > All systems eventually reach end-of-life. If a vendor has enough technical expertise to deliver hardware worth $750k, it seems reasonable to expect that expertise would include sufficient familiarity with system life cycles to anticipate a need for modular upgrades. > > -- > Richard Gaskin From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Mon May 15 12:48:25 2017 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Mon, 15 May 2017 12:48:25 -0400 Subject: WannaCry [OT] In-Reply-To: <9487b640-e096-74a5-d1e1-a928fb402d9b@fourthworld.com> References: <9487b640-e096-74a5-d1e1-a928fb402d9b@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: First and foremost, you might expect M$ to be able to deliver an OS that is backward compatible, since they are the 800 lb. gorilla in this conversation. They put out the specs that all the hardware vendors built to, before they decided to change the rules and go in a direction that broke everything. When all the hardware vendors were screaming, was M$ trying to build a compatibility layer? No? It's similar to what Apple does every time they change the connector for their phones, just on a much more severe level. On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 12:28 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Mike Kerner wrote: > > > Unfortunately, there are very expensive pieces of gear that have > > controls on them that for one reason or another cannot be controlled > > by OS's newer than XP. I happen to have one, here. It cost > > $750,000. There is no dealing with the OS issue without replacing > > the control, and that is also extremely expensive, on the order of > > $400,000, so you would not replace the control without replacing the > > whole unit. M$, when they decided to dump the XP paradigm, just like > > when they got rid of DOS, broke upgradability for ATM's, machine > > tools and CMM's, X-Ray and MRI machines, PBX's, etc. > > All systems eventually reach end-of-life. If a vendor has enough > technical expertise to deliver hardware worth $750k, it seems reasonable to > expect that expertise would include sufficient familiarity with system life > cycles to anticipate a need for modular upgrades. > > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Mon May 15 12:55:23 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Mon, 15 May 2017 19:55:23 +0300 Subject: IP to decimal function? In-Reply-To: <4232FFFC-5DFC-44CB-B4E3-9F2CB4F087D2@iotecdigital.com> References: <5917EA56.3070307@tkf.att.ne.jp> <4232FFFC-5DFC-44CB-B4E3-9F2CB4F087D2@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: Bob . . . It probably is, and there was also Tim's remark about reinventing the wheel. But, as it took me about 3 minutes to find how to do the conversion online and another 5 minutes to pop it all together in LiveCode . . . . Which may say something about the master library and how accessible it is. Richmond. On 5/15/17 6:01 pm, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > I wrote something of the sort called IPCalc. It should be in the master library. > > Bob S > > >> On May 13, 2017, at 22:25 , Tim Selander via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Hi >> >> I need to convert IP address from web logs to decimal for easier processing... >> >> Before I try to "reinvent the wheel" (and no doubt roll off a cliff) I'm wondering if anyone already has such a function they'd be willing to share? >> >> TIA >> >> Tim Selander >> Tokyo, Japan >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Mon May 15 12:59:07 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Mon, 15 May 2017 19:59:07 +0300 Subject: WannaCry [OT] In-Reply-To: References: <5F1D259A-7708-4793-8860-3F5421880B15@gmail.com> <45558675-2fd8-ddc5-4149-d67ea149c909@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <7adcc755-34dd-53e5-9278-1f04b8947b42@gmail.com> That happens all the time. Try getting support for a golfball typewriter . . . I couldn't get a new monitor for my BBC Master Compact and had to fool around with SCART sockets, RGB gubbins and a soldering iron. But, as King Camp Gillette didn't say, but certainly implied, planned obsolescence is what drives both commerce and development. Richmond. On 5/15/17 7:11 pm, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > Unfortunately, there are very expensive pieces of gear that have controls > on them that for one reason or another cannot be controlled by OS's newer > than XP. I happen to have one, here. It cost $750,000. There is no > dealing with the OS issue without replacing the control, and that is also > extremely expensive, on the order of $400,000, so you would not replace the > control without replacing the whole unit. M$, when they decided to dump > the XP paradigm, just like when they got rid of DOS, broke upgradability > for ATM's, machine tools and CMM's, X-Ray and MRI machines, PBX's, etc. > > On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 10:56 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> David V Glasgow wrote: >> >>> I recently finished a fixed term contract working for a pretty IT >>> savvy NHS Trust. The NHS has been forced by central government to >>> reallocate IT (and other infrastructure) monies to front line >>> services. They are also trapped by legacy software with dependencies >>> on old (and proprietary) Windows systems and software. Now obviously >>> stupid, but actually historic stupidity which was in the 1990s >>> disguised as good business and standard practice. >>> >>> Not to mention the Clinical Information Systems which look and behave >>> as if it is still the 1990?s. >>> >>> Apart from that, everything is fine. >> That's the sad reality of so many security budgets: they don't become >> adequate until after it's too late. >> >> The dependency on older unsafe software versions is one that's always >> mystified me. I once worked for a vendor whose clients included several >> large hospital networks, and one of them required us to deliver our app in >> a way that would maintain compatibility with IE 6, years after Microsoft >> warned customers to stop using it. >> >> Subsequent versions of a software are generally supersets of features >> found in earlier versions, with the only things missing as we go forward >> being bugs. >> >> When written to spec, it should move forward gracefully. Microsoft has >> done a better job of maintaining backward compatibility than most. >> >> So if someone writes an app that doesn't work going forward, dependent on >> things specific to an outdated system, in effect their app is dependent on >> bugs. >> >> For any org to consider bug-dependent software "mission critical" should >> raise eyebrows. For a hospital it seems even more serious. >> >> But I understand how budgets tend to gloss over things like this. And >> this week, even the most reluctant orgs do too. >> >> -- >> Richard Gaskin >> Fourth World Systems >> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web >> ____________________________________________________________________ >> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Mon May 15 13:05:17 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Mon, 15 May 2017 20:05:17 +0300 Subject: WannaCry [OT] In-Reply-To: References: <9487b640-e096-74a5-d1e1-a928fb402d9b@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <8b7214eb-fceb-fc4f-bb93-1fbd746b86d3@gmail.com> The 800 lb gorilla would died of a broken thigh-bone because while a gorilla's height may increase in one dimension, its volume and weight will increase in 3 dimensions, and its bone cross-section in 2 dimensions, so its thigh-bones will not be strong enough to carry its weight: hence King Kong being a celluloid-only gorilla. This may well be M$'s problem . . . . Although the way Apple behave I cannot somehow see them in the role of Fay Wray! Richmond. On 5/15/17 7:48 pm, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > First and foremost, you might expect M$ to be able to deliver an OS that is > backward compatible, since they are the 800 lb. gorilla in this > conversation. They put out the specs that all the hardware vendors built > to, before they decided to change the rules and go in a direction that > broke everything. When all the hardware vendors were screaming, was M$ > trying to build a compatibility layer? No? It's similar to what Apple > does every time they change the connector for their phones, just on a much > more severe level. > > On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 12:28 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> Mike Kerner wrote: >> >>> Unfortunately, there are very expensive pieces of gear that have >>> controls on them that for one reason or another cannot be controlled >>> by OS's newer than XP. I happen to have one, here. It cost >>> $750,000. There is no dealing with the OS issue without replacing >>> the control, and that is also extremely expensive, on the order of >>> $400,000, so you would not replace the control without replacing the >>> whole unit. M$, when they decided to dump the XP paradigm, just like >>> when they got rid of DOS, broke upgradability for ATM's, machine >>> tools and CMM's, X-Ray and MRI machines, PBX's, etc. >> All systems eventually reach end-of-life. If a vendor has enough >> technical expertise to deliver hardware worth $750k, it seems reasonable to >> expect that expertise would include sufficient familiarity with system life >> cycles to anticipate a need for modular upgrades. >> >> >> -- >> Richard Gaskin >> Fourth World Systems >> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web >> ____________________________________________________________________ >> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Mon May 15 13:10:36 2017 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Mon, 15 May 2017 13:10:36 -0400 Subject: Transparent browser widgets? In-Reply-To: <3a901faa899004f3527df281fc0c6b13@livecode.com> References: <9f3090a683c3d189e6e8247ef143cbb5@livecode.com> <3a901faa899004f3527df281fc0c6b13@livecode.com> Message-ID: On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 12:03 PM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On 2017-05-15 16:43, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > >> Any chance we'll see the ability to play audio and video at all in >> Linux restored? >> > > I'm not quite sure what relation that has to 'Transparent Browser > Widget'... > > Re-implementing audio and video in Linux is not currently on our near term > todo list. > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > > -- > Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ > LiveCode: Everyone can create apps > > I have to agree with Richard on this. It seems tis always time to add new and cool features to iOS and Mac, but not enough time to repair what has been broken. Linux isn't as mainstream, but it does have a decent base of committed users. I do believe they too would enjoy functional audio/video content in their LC apps. Just sayin'. ~Roger From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon May 15 13:13:13 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 15 May 2017 10:13:13 -0700 Subject: WannaCry [OT] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <541b047d-a417-5a9e-0ec7-3326b07924f5@fourthworld.com> Mike Kerner wrote: > First and foremost, you might expect M$ to be able to deliver an OS > that is backward compatible, since they are the 800 lb. gorilla in > this conversation. They put out the specs that all the hardware > vendors built to, before they decided to change the rules and go in > a direction that broke everything. When all the hardware vendors > were screaming, was M$ trying to build a compatibility layer? No? Of course I don't know the details behind lost backward compatibility as it may relate to a specific unnamed hardware device, but I do know that Microsoft has earned a reputation for maintaining backward compatibility far better than most. Indeed, saddling themselves with that responsibility has been a frequent complaint against the company, said to restrict their options for innovation. And with XP specifically, IIRC Microsoft gave everyone at least 7 years' advance notice of XP's EOL, having announced in 2007 that it would reach EOL in 2014. Key vendors may have had that disclosure even earlier than the public notice. Is it possible that the APIs these vendors depended on were later found to present security vulnerabilities? It is truly impossible for these devices to deliver their functionality using modern supported APIs? Might it be (again, we can't know for sure until we talk with each vendor) that they simply soldered too little RAM onto the motherboard and provided no means of updating the OS because they weren't thinking long-term? Lots of questions, likely unanswerable until we learn the specific constraints in play with each device. If hardware vendors are looking for control over their platforms, perhaps they should be looking at open source OSes so they have access to the source code, ensuring that it will do always be able to do what they need. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Mon May 15 13:14:36 2017 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Mon, 15 May 2017 13:14:36 -0400 Subject: WannaCry [OT] In-Reply-To: <8b7214eb-fceb-fc4f-bb93-1fbd746b86d3@gmail.com> References: <9487b640-e096-74a5-d1e1-a928fb402d9b@fourthworld.com> <8b7214eb-fceb-fc4f-bb93-1fbd746b86d3@gmail.com> Message-ID: So back to what happened on Friday, in the western world, firms that have large investments in large and very expensive pieces of gear (which, I forgot to mention also carry lead times of 12-18 months in many cases), and large and very expensive software systems weren't paranoid enough. I can't speak to what happened in the former Eastern Bloc, since they were hit much harder than everyone else, but I suspect that glasnost has not been as good for them as they may have hoped. No one has mentioned it, but I have to wonder what happened behind PRC's Great Firewall, and in DPRK. I would also be curious to see, over the coming weeks, how severe the effect was in Africa. On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 1:05 PM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > The 800 lb gorilla would died of a broken thigh-bone because while > a gorilla's height may increase in one dimension, its volume and weight > will increase in > 3 dimensions, and its bone cross-section in 2 dimensions, so its > thigh-bones will not > be strong enough to carry its weight: hence King Kong being a > celluloid-only > gorilla. > > This may well be M$'s problem . . . . > > Although the way Apple behave I cannot somehow see them in the role > of Fay Wray! > > Richmond. > > > On 5/15/17 7:48 pm, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > >> First and foremost, you might expect M$ to be able to deliver an OS that >> is >> backward compatible, since they are the 800 lb. gorilla in this >> conversation. They put out the specs that all the hardware vendors built >> to, before they decided to change the rules and go in a direction that >> broke everything. When all the hardware vendors were screaming, was M$ >> trying to build a compatibility layer? No? It's similar to what Apple >> does every time they change the connector for their phones, just on a much >> more severe level. >> >> On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 12:28 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >> Mike Kerner wrote: >>> >>> Unfortunately, there are very expensive pieces of gear that have >>>> controls on them that for one reason or another cannot be controlled >>>> by OS's newer than XP. I happen to have one, here. It cost >>>> $750,000. There is no dealing with the OS issue without replacing >>>> the control, and that is also extremely expensive, on the order of >>>> $400,000, so you would not replace the control without replacing the >>>> whole unit. M$, when they decided to dump the XP paradigm, just like >>>> when they got rid of DOS, broke upgradability for ATM's, machine >>>> tools and CMM's, X-Ray and MRI machines, PBX's, etc. >>>> >>> All systems eventually reach end-of-life. If a vendor has enough >>> technical expertise to deliver hardware worth $750k, it seems reasonable >>> to >>> expect that expertise would include sufficient familiarity with system >>> life >>> cycles to anticipate a need for modular upgrades. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Richard Gaskin >>> Fourth World Systems >>> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web >>> ____________________________________________________________________ >>> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From mark at livecode.com Mon May 15 13:27:29 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Mon, 15 May 2017 19:27:29 +0200 Subject: Transparent browser =?UTF-8?Q?widgets=3F?= In-Reply-To: References: <9f3090a683c3d189e6e8247ef143cbb5@livecode.com> <3a901faa899004f3527df281fc0c6b13@livecode.com> Message-ID: <9b09779647b64ccbaed209b83bff9372@livecode.com> On 2017-05-15 19:10, Roger Eller via use-livecode wrote: > I have to agree with Richard on this. It seems tis always time to add > new > and cool features to iOS and Mac, but not enough time to repair what > has > been broken. Linux isn't as mainstream, but it does have a decent base > of > committed users. I do believe they too would enjoy functional > audio/video > content in their LC apps. Just sayin'. Um - where did I say the request was going to be implemented NOW? Nowhere that I can see... I filed an enhancement request so the suggestion wasn't lost - why did I? Because I recalled adding an opaque property to the mobileControl "browser" API years ago that did what was requested (on both iOS and Android, IIRC). Given that Mac now uses WebView and not CEF, and thus benefits from the flexibility of NSViews directly, it seemed reasonable that the same approach used then would work on Mac too. Therefore, it seemed a reasonable thing to record this fact - it gives no indication of when it might get done, if at all (of course, being open-source means that someone who is not us might do it). Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Mon May 15 13:42:54 2017 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Mon, 15 May 2017 13:42:54 -0400 Subject: Transparent browser widgets? In-Reply-To: <9b09779647b64ccbaed209b83bff9372@livecode.com> References: <9f3090a683c3d189e6e8247ef143cbb5@livecode.com> <3a901faa899004f3527df281fc0c6b13@livecode.com> <9b09779647b64ccbaed209b83bff9372@livecode.com> Message-ID: On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 1:27 PM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On 2017-05-15 19:10, Roger Eller via use-livecode wrote: > >> I have to agree with Richard on this. It seems tis always time to add new >> and cool features to iOS and Mac, but not enough time to repair what has >> been broken. Linux isn't as mainstream, but it does have a decent base of >> committed users. I do believe they too would enjoy functional audio/video >> content in their LC apps. Just sayin'. >> > > Um - where did I say the request was going to be implemented NOW? Nowhere > that I can see... > > I filed an enhancement request so the suggestion wasn't lost - why did I? > > Because I recalled adding an opaque property to the mobileControl > "browser" API years ago that did what was requested (on both iOS and > Android, IIRC). Given that Mac now uses WebView and not CEF, and thus > benefits from the flexibility of NSViews directly, it seemed reasonable > that the same approach used then would work on Mac too. > > Therefore, it seemed a reasonable thing to record this fact - it gives no > indication of when it might get done, if at all (of course, being > open-source means that someone who is not us might do it). > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > > -- > Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ > LiveCode: Everyone can create apps > > Mark, I've apparently found myself with "a case of the Mondays". So sorry for my mood. Carry on with being awesome. You and the team really are quite awesome! I mean it. ~Roger From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon May 15 13:43:19 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 15 May 2017 10:43:19 -0700 Subject: WannaCry [OT] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5fd1c688-e669-cf24-38c5-a1d354d76af2@fourthworld.com> Mike Kerner wrote: > So back to what happened on Friday, in the western world, firms that have > large investments in large and very expensive pieces of gear (which, I > forgot to mention also carry lead times of 12-18 months in many cases), and > large and very expensive software systems weren't paranoid enough. I can't > speak to what happened in the former Eastern Bloc, since they were hit much > harder than everyone else, but I suspect that glasnost has not been as good > for them as they may have hoped. No one has mentioned it, but I have to > wonder what happened behind PRC's Great Firewall, and in DPRK. Good luck getting any verifiable information about what goes on inside DPRK. As for PRC, it seems the Great Firewall only protects them from ideological dangers, like the risks of reading the Federalist Papers, while leaving infrastructure vulnerable: Tens of thousands of Chinese firms, institutes affected in WannaCry global cyberattack > I would also be curious to see, over the coming weeks, how severe the effect was in > Africa. Less so than elsewhere: Africa least hit by WannaCry ransomware cyber-attack I'd guess this is likely because they have less traditional Internet infrastructure and fewer PCs per capita. Like parts of S. America, many parts of Africa have skipped the whole POTS phase to go directly to mobile networks, with far more phones than PCs: Looking ahead, one way to mitigate such risks would be to share information on known vulnerabilities as they're discovered. Remember, WannaCry is a variant of a tool made by the US NSA, who discovered the vulnerability but chose not to disclose it to Microsoft, who was able to patch it shortly after it was discovered through the NSA hack by the "Shadow Brokers" group and the NSA toolkit posted online. Microsoft had some words over the weekend about the need for better vulnerability reporting: Microsoft president and chief legal officer Brad Smith said by keeping software weaknesses secret, vendors are left in the dark, can't issue updates, and their customers are left vulnerable to attacks such as the one that exploded this weekend. He compared the leak of NSA exploits to the theft of missiles from the American military, pointing also to the Wikileaks dump of CIA hacking tools. "An equivalent scenario with conventional weapons would be the U.S. military having some of its Tomahawk missiles stolen. And this most recent attack represents a completely unintended but disconcerting link between the two most serious forms of cybersecurity threats in the world today ? nation-state action and organized criminal action," Smith wrote in a blog post published Sunday. "The governments of the world should treat this attack as a wake-up call. They need to take a different approach and adhere in cyberspace to the same rules applied to weapons in the physical world. We need governments to consider the damage to civilians that comes from hoarding these vulnerabilities and the use of these exploits." Microsoft Just Took A Swipe At NSA Over The WannaCry Ransomware Nightmare -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Mon May 15 14:10:03 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Mon, 15 May 2017 18:10:03 +0000 Subject: WannaCry [OT] In-Reply-To: <5fd1c688-e669-cf24-38c5-a1d354d76af2@fourthworld.com> References: <5fd1c688-e669-cf24-38c5-a1d354d76af2@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Governments of the world are simply never going to cooperate in this regard. If they find an advantage they will lock it down then exploit it. The public can cry out all they want. Governments will simply agree that more needs to be done to cooperate about this sort of thing, then quietly go about business as usual. If I had this in the NSA, I would have kept it a secret and had a plan ready to deploy it if needed. Sorry, a weapon is a weapon. What we really need to do is make people who release this sort of thing into the wild disappear. The method we use is open to debate. Bob S From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon May 15 14:15:53 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 15 May 2017 13:15:53 -0500 Subject: Dispatching Messages to Closed Stacks Which Are Not in Memory In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <90f8f06f-ca08-bef6-cf38-2489625c1f75@hyperactivesw.com> On 5/15/17 10:28 AM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode wrote: > we have this > > dispatch "journalresume" to stack tEntryA["module"] with tDataA, tEntryA > > which in this case will be > > dispatch "journalresume" to stack "gems" with tDataA, tEntryA > > which when fired, triggers the > > journalResume > > handler in stack "gems" > > *even though it is not open* > > how can that be? Any reference to a stack will re-open it. The reference here is in the dispatch command. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From capellan2000 at gmail.com Mon May 15 14:40:00 2017 From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada) Date: Mon, 15 May 2017 14:40:00 -0400 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 82 Message-ID: > Read about new developments in LiveCode open source > and the open source community in today's edition of > the "This Week in LiveCode" newsletter! > Read issue #82 here: https://goo.gl/8HNhau Looks like Skia Graphics Library dropped support for some features and LC9 will not show anymore these types of gradients: 'XY', 'SqrtXY', 'Diamond' and 'Spiral' and most of these legacy Blend Modes: clear, noop, notSrcAnd, notSrcAndReverse, notSrcCopy, notSrcOr, notSrcOrReverse, notSrcXor, reverse, set, srcAnd, srcAndReverse, srcCopy, srcOr, srcOrReverse, srcXor, blend, addPin addOver, subPin, transparent adMin, addMax If you check all paint features available from Skia Library: https://skia.org/user/api/skpaint there are many useful features that LC9 could implement, like: setTextScaleX (and setTextScaleY) SkPathEffect SkLine2DPathEffect SkDiscretePathEffect SkComposePathEffect SkSumPathEffect Two-Point Conical Gradient Shader Fractal Perlin Noise Shader Turbulence Perlin Noise Shader Compose Shader Blur Mask Filter Could LC implement first some of these Skia features like Perlin Noise and Blur filter? Al From mark at livecode.com Mon May 15 14:56:02 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Mon, 15 May 2017 20:56:02 +0200 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 82 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5545dae3ac3d3ab60730b42bf7db2bc6@livecode.com> On 2017-05-15 20:40, Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode wrote: >> Read about new developments in LiveCode open source >> and the open source community in today's edition of >> the "This Week in LiveCode" newsletter! >> Read issue #82 here: https://goo.gl/8HNhau > > Looks like Skia Graphics Library dropped support > for some features and LC9 will not show anymore > these types of gradients: > 'XY', 'SqrtXY', 'Diamond' and 'Spiral' These are back in - Michael managed to get them working again. > and most of these legacy Blend Modes: > clear, noop, notSrcAnd, notSrcAndReverse, > notSrcCopy, notSrcOr, notSrcOrReverse, > notSrcXor, reverse, set, srcAnd, > srcAndReverse, srcCopy, srcOr, > srcOrReverse, srcXor, blend, addPin > addOver, subPin, transparent > adMin, addMax We're still on the fency about all of these - I do wonder how much they are used anymore particularly as they do not fit into the RGBA rendering model which everyone uses anymore and as such are incredibly inefficient. (They will never be acceleratable, for example). I'd be surprised if people couldn't get similar effects by using appropriate blend inks - if they are still in use at all. > If you check all paint features available > from Skia Library: https://skia.org/user/api/skpaint > there are many useful features that LC9 > could implement, like: > setTextScaleX (and setTextScaleY) > SkPathEffect > SkLine2DPathEffect > SkDiscretePathEffect > SkComposePathEffect > SkSumPathEffect > Two-Point Conical Gradient Shader > Fractal Perlin Noise Shader > Turbulence Perlin Noise Shader > Compose Shader > Blur Mask Filter > > Could LC implement first some of > these Skia features like Perlin Noise > and Blur filter? Our first aim is to get the new Skia in and working as much as it did before :) Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Mon May 15 14:56:41 2017 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Mon, 15 May 2017 14:56:41 -0400 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 82 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Oh no! I use the legacy blendModes all the time! On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 2:40 PM, Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > Read about new developments in LiveCode open source > > and the open source community in today's edition of > > the "This Week in LiveCode" newsletter! > > Read issue #82 here: https://goo.gl/8HNhau > > Looks like Skia Graphics Library dropped support > for some features and LC9 will not show anymore > these types of gradients: > 'XY', 'SqrtXY', 'Diamond' and 'Spiral' > and most of these legacy Blend Modes: > clear, noop, notSrcAnd, notSrcAndReverse, > notSrcCopy, notSrcOr, notSrcOrReverse, > notSrcXor, reverse, set, srcAnd, > srcAndReverse, srcCopy, srcOr, > srcOrReverse, srcXor, blend, addPin > addOver, subPin, transparent > adMin, addMax > > If you check all paint features available > from Skia Library: https://skia.org/user/api/skpaint > there are many useful features that LC9 > could implement, like: > setTextScaleX (and setTextScaleY) > SkPathEffect > SkLine2DPathEffect > SkDiscretePathEffect > SkComposePathEffect > SkSumPathEffect > Two-Point Conical Gradient Shader > Fractal Perlin Noise Shader > Turbulence Perlin Noise Shader > Compose Shader > Blur Mask Filter > > Could LC implement first some of > these Skia features like Perlin Noise > and Blur filter? > > Al > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From ali.lloyd at livecode.com Mon May 15 15:01:06 2017 From: ali.lloyd at livecode.com (Ali Lloyd) Date: Mon, 15 May 2017 19:01:06 +0000 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 82 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: To be fair, the docs claim the legacy blend modes have been deprecated since LC 5! We've supported thm for quite a long time post-deprecation... On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 7:56 PM Roger Eller via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Oh no! I use the legacy blendModes all the time! > > > On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 2:40 PM, Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > Read about new developments in LiveCode open source > > > and the open source community in today's edition of > > > the "This Week in LiveCode" newsletter! > > > Read issue #82 here: https://goo.gl/8HNhau > > > > Looks like Skia Graphics Library dropped support > > for some features and LC9 will not show anymore > > these types of gradients: > > 'XY', 'SqrtXY', 'Diamond' and 'Spiral' > > and most of these legacy Blend Modes: > > clear, noop, notSrcAnd, notSrcAndReverse, > > notSrcCopy, notSrcOr, notSrcOrReverse, > > notSrcXor, reverse, set, srcAnd, > > srcAndReverse, srcCopy, srcOr, > > srcOrReverse, srcXor, blend, addPin > > addOver, subPin, transparent > > adMin, addMax > > > > If you check all paint features available > > from Skia Library: https://skia.org/user/api/skpaint > > there are many useful features that LC9 > > could implement, like: > > setTextScaleX (and setTextScaleY) > > SkPathEffect > > SkLine2DPathEffect > > SkDiscretePathEffect > > SkComposePathEffect > > SkSumPathEffect > > Two-Point Conical Gradient Shader > > Fractal Perlin Noise Shader > > Turbulence Perlin Noise Shader > > Compose Shader > > Blur Mask Filter > > > > Could LC implement first some of > > these Skia features like Perlin Noise > > and Blur filter? > > > > Al > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Mon May 15 15:11:57 2017 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Mon, 15 May 2017 15:11:57 -0400 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 82 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I just looked in the dictionary of 6.7.5 (my daily driver), and only srcCopy concerns me, as it is the default for any image placed as a control. I also found an image that I had placed with addMax applied. This saved me the trouble of taking it into Photoshop of Gimp to create the same effect. I'll roll with the changes. ~Roger On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 3:01 PM, Ali Lloyd via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > To be fair, the docs claim the legacy blend modes have been deprecated > since LC 5! We've supported thm for quite a long time post-deprecation... > > On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 7:56 PM Roger Eller via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > Oh no! I use the legacy blendModes all the time! > > > > > > On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 2:40 PM, Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > > > Read about new developments in LiveCode open source > > > > and the open source community in today's edition of > > > > the "This Week in LiveCode" newsletter! > > > > Read issue #82 here: https://goo.gl/8HNhau > > > > > > Looks like Skia Graphics Library dropped support > > > for some features and LC9 will not show anymore > > > these types of gradients: > > > 'XY', 'SqrtXY', 'Diamond' and 'Spiral' > > > and most of these legacy Blend Modes: > > > clear, noop, notSrcAnd, notSrcAndReverse, > > > notSrcCopy, notSrcOr, notSrcOrReverse, > > > notSrcXor, reverse, set, srcAnd, > > > srcAndReverse, srcCopy, srcOr, > > > srcOrReverse, srcXor, blend, addPin > > > addOver, subPin, transparent > > > adMin, addMax > > > > > > If you check all paint features available > > > from Skia Library: https://skia.org/user/api/skpaint > > > there are many useful features that LC9 > > > could implement, like: > > > setTextScaleX (and setTextScaleY) > > > SkPathEffect > > > SkLine2DPathEffect > > > SkDiscretePathEffect > > > SkComposePathEffect > > > SkSumPathEffect > > > Two-Point Conical Gradient Shader > > > Fractal Perlin Noise Shader > > > Turbulence Perlin Noise Shader > > > Compose Shader > > > Blur Mask Filter > > > > > > Could LC implement first some of > > > these Skia features like Perlin Noise > > > and Blur filter? > > > > > > Al > > > _______________________________________________ > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > > subscription preferences: > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon May 15 15:12:05 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 15 May 2017 12:12:05 -0700 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 82 In-Reply-To: <5545dae3ac3d3ab60730b42bf7db2bc6@livecode.com> References: <5545dae3ac3d3ab60730b42bf7db2bc6@livecode.com> Message-ID: <75c868b1-b9ab-d9f6-2d0f-793414880aeb@fourthworld.com> Mark Waddingham wrote: > On 2017-05-15 20:40, Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Looks like Skia Graphics Library dropped support >> for some features and LC9 will not show anymore >> these types of gradients: >> 'XY', 'SqrtXY', 'Diamond' and 'Spiral' > > These are back in - Michael managed to get them working again. Good to hear, thanks. >> and most of these legacy Blend Modes: >> clear, noop, notSrcAnd, notSrcAndReverse, >> notSrcCopy, notSrcOr, notSrcOrReverse, >> notSrcXor, reverse, set, srcAnd, >> srcAndReverse, srcCopy, srcOr, >> srcOrReverse, srcXor, blend, addPin >> addOver, subPin, transparent >> adMin, addMax > > We're still on the fency about all of these - I do wonder how > much they are used anymore particularly as they do not fit into > the RGBA rendering model which everyone uses anymore and as such > are incredibly inefficient. (They will never be acceleratable, > for example). > > I'd be surprised if people couldn't get similar effects by using > appropriate blend inks - if they are still in use at all. I use some of those inks - glad to hear they're still working. But help me understand: if not ink, what LC property was Alejandro referring to? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From hh at hyperhh.de Mon May 15 15:21:11 2017 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Mon, 15 May 2017 21:21:11 +0200 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 82 Message-ID: <698301E1-4DD9-4ED1-A916-042C176AEEFD@hyperhh.de> > Mark W. wrote: > > and most of these legacy Blend Modes: > > clear, noop, notSrcAnd, notSrcAndReverse, > > notSrcCopy, notSrcOr, notSrcOrReverse, > > notSrcXor, reverse, set, srcAnd, > > srcAndReverse, srcCopy, srcOr, > > srcOrReverse, srcXor, blend, addPin > > addOver, subPin, transparent > > adMin, addMax > We're still on the fency about all of these - I do wonder how > much they are used anymore particularly as they do not fit into > the RGBA rendering model which everyone uses anymore and as such > are incredibly inefficient. (They will never be acceleratable, > for example). > I'd be surprised if people couldn't get similar effects by using > appropriate blend inks - if they are still in use at all. > Ali L. wrote: > To be fair, the docs claim the legacy blend modes have been deprecated > since LC 5! We've supported them for quite a long time post-deprecation... 1. Please read this twice and don't cry ... The default blendLevel of each and every LC object that has an ink is "srcCopy" --- 'incredibly inefficient' as you judge it. 2. How do you define a "similar" effect? 3. Please tell me for example which "similar" blend effect allows a dark theme in the script editor which is currently simly done by setting the fields ink to "notSrcCopy". From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Mon May 15 15:22:24 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Mon, 15 May 2017 22:22:24 +0300 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 82 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5e4f05b3-7dac-4694-7d62-2e5184632df3@gmail.com> So do I! Richmond. On 5/15/17 9:56 pm, Roger Eller via use-livecode wrote: > Oh no! I use the legacy blendModes all the time! > > > On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 2:40 PM, Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >>> Read about new developments in LiveCode open source >>> and the open source community in today's edition of >>> the "This Week in LiveCode" newsletter! >>> Read issue #82 here: https://goo.gl/8HNhau >> Looks like Skia Graphics Library dropped support >> for some features and LC9 will not show anymore >> these types of gradients: >> 'XY', 'SqrtXY', 'Diamond' and 'Spiral' >> and most of these legacy Blend Modes: >> clear, noop, notSrcAnd, notSrcAndReverse, >> notSrcCopy, notSrcOr, notSrcOrReverse, >> notSrcXor, reverse, set, srcAnd, >> srcAndReverse, srcCopy, srcOr, >> srcOrReverse, srcXor, blend, addPin >> addOver, subPin, transparent >> adMin, addMax >> >> If you check all paint features available >> from Skia Library: https://skia.org/user/api/skpaint >> there are many useful features that LC9 >> could implement, like: >> setTextScaleX (and setTextScaleY) >> SkPathEffect >> SkLine2DPathEffect >> SkDiscretePathEffect >> SkComposePathEffect >> SkSumPathEffect >> Two-Point Conical Gradient Shader >> Fractal Perlin Noise Shader >> Turbulence Perlin Noise Shader >> Compose Shader >> Blur Mask Filter >> >> Could LC implement first some of >> these Skia features like Perlin Noise >> and Blur filter? >> >> Al >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Mon May 15 15:24:08 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Mon, 15 May 2017 22:24:08 +0300 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 82 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <350a0d1d-5410-51b3-9c7e-a55f7a331678@gmail.com> What does that word "fair" mean? I have always wondered whether it isn't a bit like "luck", something nebulous (c.f. "rights") to cover up a multitude of rather more difficult ideas. Richmond. On 5/15/17 10:01 pm, Ali Lloyd via use-livecode wrote: > To be fair, the docs claim the legacy blend modes have been deprecated > since LC 5! We've supported thm for quite a long time post-deprecation... > > On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 7:56 PM Roger Eller via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> Oh no! I use the legacy blendModes all the time! >> >> >> On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 2:40 PM, Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >>>> Read about new developments in LiveCode open source >>>> and the open source community in today's edition of >>>> the "This Week in LiveCode" newsletter! >>>> Read issue #82 here: https://goo.gl/8HNhau >>> Looks like Skia Graphics Library dropped support >>> for some features and LC9 will not show anymore >>> these types of gradients: >>> 'XY', 'SqrtXY', 'Diamond' and 'Spiral' >>> and most of these legacy Blend Modes: >>> clear, noop, notSrcAnd, notSrcAndReverse, >>> notSrcCopy, notSrcOr, notSrcOrReverse, >>> notSrcXor, reverse, set, srcAnd, >>> srcAndReverse, srcCopy, srcOr, >>> srcOrReverse, srcXor, blend, addPin >>> addOver, subPin, transparent >>> adMin, addMax >>> >>> If you check all paint features available >>> from Skia Library: https://skia.org/user/api/skpaint >>> there are many useful features that LC9 >>> could implement, like: >>> setTextScaleX (and setTextScaleY) >>> SkPathEffect >>> SkLine2DPathEffect >>> SkDiscretePathEffect >>> SkComposePathEffect >>> SkSumPathEffect >>> Two-Point Conical Gradient Shader >>> Fractal Perlin Noise Shader >>> Turbulence Perlin Noise Shader >>> Compose Shader >>> Blur Mask Filter >>> >>> Could LC implement first some of >>> these Skia features like Perlin Noise >>> and Blur filter? >>> >>> Al >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mark at livecode.com Mon May 15 15:42:48 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Mon, 15 May 2017 20:42:48 +0100 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 82 In-Reply-To: <698301E1-4DD9-4ED1-A916-042C176AEEFD@hyperhh.de> References: <698301E1-4DD9-4ED1-A916-042C176AEEFD@hyperhh.de> Message-ID: SrcCopy is identical to blendSrcOver - the latter is its alpha-aware counterpart. The engine makes no distinction between the two - except on groups where it determines if the group should be rendered first and then composited (blendSrcOver), or if its children should be directly composites into the group's parent. That won't change. In terms of notSrcCopy then there are other blends which do a similar thing - although in that specific case I'd suggest perhaps letting users set colours in the script editor would be a better approach ;) Mark. Sent from my iPhone On 15 May 2017, at 20:21, hh via use-livecode wrote: >> Mark W. wrote: >>> and most of these legacy Blend Modes: >>> clear, noop, notSrcAnd, notSrcAndReverse, >>> notSrcCopy, notSrcOr, notSrcOrReverse, >>> notSrcXor, reverse, set, srcAnd, >>> srcAndReverse, srcCopy, srcOr, >>> srcOrReverse, srcXor, blend, addPin >>> addOver, subPin, transparent >>> adMin, addMax > >> We're still on the fency about all of these - I do wonder how >> much they are used anymore particularly as they do not fit into >> the RGBA rendering model which everyone uses anymore and as such >> are incredibly inefficient. (They will never be acceleratable, >> for example). > >> I'd be surprised if people couldn't get similar effects by using >> appropriate blend inks - if they are still in use at all. > >> Ali L. wrote: >> To be fair, the docs claim the legacy blend modes have been deprecated >> since LC 5! We've supported them for quite a long time post-deprecation... > > 1. Please read this twice and don't cry ... > > The default blendLevel of each and every LC object that has an ink is > "srcCopy" --- 'incredibly inefficient' as you judge it. > > 2. How do you define a "similar" effect? > 3. Please tell me for example which "similar" blend effect allows a dark > theme in the script editor which is currently simly done by setting the > fields ink to "notSrcCopy". > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mark at livecode.com Mon May 15 15:50:24 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Mon, 15 May 2017 20:50:24 +0100 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 82 In-Reply-To: <350a0d1d-5410-51b3-9c7e-a55f7a331678@gmail.com> References: <350a0d1d-5410-51b3-9c7e-a55f7a331678@gmail.com> Message-ID: In this case it means when you take into account the number of global uses of the (now in the modern era) non-standard inks / blend modes we provide... Does that percentage justify the reimplementation effort and continued maintenance (particularly when they have been explicitly deprecated for years) when it could be used on more widely usable things :) Mark. Sent from my iPhone > On 15 May 2017, at 20:24, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: > > What does that word "fair" mean? I have always wondered whether > it isn't a bit like "luck", something nebulous (c.f. "rights") to cover up > a multitude of rather more difficult ideas. > > Richmond. > >> On 5/15/17 10:01 pm, Ali Lloyd via use-livecode wrote: >> To be fair, the docs claim the legacy blend modes have been deprecated >> since LC 5! We've supported thm for quite a long time post-deprecation... >> >> On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 7:56 PM Roger Eller via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >>> Oh no! I use the legacy blendModes all the time! >>> >>> >>> On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 2:40 PM, Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> >>>>> Read about new developments in LiveCode open source >>>>> and the open source community in today's edition of >>>>> the "This Week in LiveCode" newsletter! >>>>> Read issue #82 here: https://goo.gl/8HNhau >>>> Looks like Skia Graphics Library dropped support >>>> for some features and LC9 will not show anymore >>>> these types of gradients: >>>> 'XY', 'SqrtXY', 'Diamond' and 'Spiral' >>>> and most of these legacy Blend Modes: >>>> clear, noop, notSrcAnd, notSrcAndReverse, >>>> notSrcCopy, notSrcOr, notSrcOrReverse, >>>> notSrcXor, reverse, set, srcAnd, >>>> srcAndReverse, srcCopy, srcOr, >>>> srcOrReverse, srcXor, blend, addPin >>>> addOver, subPin, transparent >>>> adMin, addMax >>>> >>>> If you check all paint features available >>>> from Skia Library: https://skia.org/user/api/skpaint >>>> there are many useful features that LC9 >>>> could implement, like: >>>> setTextScaleX (and setTextScaleY) >>>> SkPathEffect >>>> SkLine2DPathEffect >>>> SkDiscretePathEffect >>>> SkComposePathEffect >>>> SkSumPathEffect >>>> Two-Point Conical Gradient Shader >>>> Fractal Perlin Noise Shader >>>> Turbulence Perlin Noise Shader >>>> Compose Shader >>>> Blur Mask Filter >>>> >>>> Could LC implement first some of >>>> these Skia features like Perlin Noise >>>> and Blur filter? >>>> >>>> Al >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Mon May 15 16:05:44 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Mon, 15 May 2017 23:05:44 +0300 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 82 In-Reply-To: References: <350a0d1d-5410-51b3-9c7e-a55f7a331678@gmail.com> Message-ID: <461c0ea1-0cda-19fb-9cf0-a6f65a7e9985@gmail.com> "the modern era" Ah; such an awful pity that both Thee and Me have more important things to do; we could have such fun playing "semantic squash". Best, Richmond. On 5/15/17 10:50 pm, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: > In this case it means when you take into account the number of global uses of the (now in the modern era) non-standard inks / blend modes we provide... Does that percentage justify the reimplementation effort and continued maintenance (particularly when they have been explicitly deprecated for years) when it could be used on more widely usable things :) > > Mark. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On 15 May 2017, at 20:24, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: >> >> What does that word "fair" mean? I have always wondered whether >> it isn't a bit like "luck", something nebulous (c.f. "rights") to cover up >> a multitude of rather more difficult ideas. >> >> Richmond. >> >>> On 5/15/17 10:01 pm, Ali Lloyd via use-livecode wrote: >>> To be fair, the docs claim the legacy blend modes have been deprecated >>> since LC 5! We've supported thm for quite a long time post-deprecation... >>> >>> On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 7:56 PM Roger Eller via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Oh no! I use the legacy blendModes all the time! >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 2:40 PM, Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode < >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>>> Read about new developments in LiveCode open source >>>>>> and the open source community in today's edition of >>>>>> the "This Week in LiveCode" newsletter! >>>>>> Read issue #82 here: https://goo.gl/8HNhau >>>>> Looks like Skia Graphics Library dropped support >>>>> for some features and LC9 will not show anymore >>>>> these types of gradients: >>>>> 'XY', 'SqrtXY', 'Diamond' and 'Spiral' >>>>> and most of these legacy Blend Modes: >>>>> clear, noop, notSrcAnd, notSrcAndReverse, >>>>> notSrcCopy, notSrcOr, notSrcOrReverse, >>>>> notSrcXor, reverse, set, srcAnd, >>>>> srcAndReverse, srcCopy, srcOr, >>>>> srcOrReverse, srcXor, blend, addPin >>>>> addOver, subPin, transparent >>>>> adMin, addMax >>>>> >>>>> If you check all paint features available >>>>> from Skia Library: https://skia.org/user/api/skpaint >>>>> there are many useful features that LC9 >>>>> could implement, like: >>>>> setTextScaleX (and setTextScaleY) >>>>> SkPathEffect >>>>> SkLine2DPathEffect >>>>> SkDiscretePathEffect >>>>> SkComposePathEffect >>>>> SkSumPathEffect >>>>> Two-Point Conical Gradient Shader >>>>> Fractal Perlin Noise Shader >>>>> Turbulence Perlin Noise Shader >>>>> Compose Shader >>>>> Blur Mask Filter >>>>> >>>>> Could LC implement first some of >>>>> these Skia features like Perlin Noise >>>>> and Blur filter? >>>>> >>>>> Al >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From hh at hyperhh.de Mon May 15 16:55:43 2017 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Mon, 15 May 2017 22:55:43 +0200 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 82 Message-ID: > Mark W. wrote: > SrcCopy is identical to blendSrcOver - the latter is its alpha-aware > counterpart. The engine makes no distinction between the two - except > on groups where it determines if the group should be rendered first > and then composited (blendSrcOver), or if its children should be > directly composites into the group's parent. That won't change. > > In terms of notSrcCopy then there are other blends which do a similar > thing - although in that specific case I'd suggest perhaps letting > users set colours in the script editor would be a better approach ;) I personally tried since months to use where possible blend modes because of the "deprecated" mark in the dictionary and your and Ali's discussions on github. But very often the wanted effect was not achievable with other modes than the bitmapped ones. The script editor theme was a discussion here some time before: Simply try colour-setting-methods and compare to setting the ink to "notSrcCopy" (what is nothing else than choosing colours by choosing the "reversed" theme to user's current "light" choice in the preferences). Also setting simply the ink is up to ten times _faster_ for long scripts (because it uses still the compiled(?) engine colouring). And the _same_ effect is NOT achievable, also not a 'medium similar' one, with a non-bitmap ink. I tried ALL other currently available modes. I have a big problem with accepting your 'a similar effect is available' statement, that's too lax -- for example red is similar to blue and green (because they have the same rgb items). Some demos for 'the SAME effect is available' would be more convincing. From capellan2000 at gmail.com Mon May 15 17:22:33 2017 From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada) Date: Mon, 15 May 2017 17:22:33 -0400 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 82 Message-ID: Richmond wrote: > "the modern era" > Ah; such an awful pity that both Thee and Me > have more important things to do; > we could have such fun playing > "semantic squash". Ok, lets play! but check this webpage before starting: https://skia.org/user/api/skpaint This Skia feature named: Perlin Noise Shader could have this syntax: set the fractalperlinNoise of selobj to "0.05, 0.05, 4, 0.0" set the turbulenceperlinNoise of selobj to "0.05, 0.05, 4, 0.0" This Skia feature named: Blur Mask Filter could have this syntax: set the blur of selobj to 5 set the hqblur of selobj to 10 This Skia feature named: SkMatrix could have this syntax: set the perspective of selobj to "1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0" :D From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Mon May 15 19:01:14 2017 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Tue, 16 May 2017 09:01:14 +1000 Subject: WannaCry [OT] In-Reply-To: <541b047d-a417-5a9e-0ec7-3326b07924f5@fourthworld.com> References: <541b047d-a417-5a9e-0ec7-3326b07924f5@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 3:13 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > Might it be (again, we can't know for sure until we talk with each vendor) > that they simply soldered too little RAM onto the motherboard and provided > no means of updating the OS because they weren't thinking long-term? > Hmmm sounds so simply, but I think when you are talking about any machine worth more than $1000, especially from any reputable provider (i.e. one that would win a government contract) then a huge amount of thought and design has gone into all the compromises necessary to achieve the 'current objective' whilst achieving an acceptable ROI. In every case, I'm sure there'd be a desire to make it more modular, add more RAM, add more software features, or make it smaller or lighter, but just like the other Post about Tom Pitman and his need to reduce 257bytes of code down to 256 because that was all that was physically available; there will always be some constraint where today's technology and hindsight make it easy to say 'if only they did this/that/the other'. > > If hardware vendors are looking for control over their platforms, perhaps > they should be looking at open source OSes so they have access to the source > code, ensuring that it will do always be able to do what they need. > Again it sounds good but my own prediction is that open source OSes for 'the internet of everything' will be opening the floodgates for exploitations that will effect a wider portion of the community, more and more often. I'm particularly thinking of cheap Chinese smart phones and TVs. My parents have gone through several cheap Chinese smart phones (Huwei to name one brand) that have all ended up getting to an OS version and then can no longer be upgraded. The phone still makes phone calls; no software makes a phone conversation any better. That's all my parents, and the vast majority of the population needs. They are not going to buy another phone just because the OS has EOLed. The phone gets upgraded only when it's no longer fit for purpose - battery doesn't last long enough. Same with Smart TVs but on a much worse scale. Few companies, and certainly no cheap Chinese brand company has any interest, once they've sold you a TV and made a slim margin of profit on it, in keeping the OSes up to date. How often does Linux get a security update, yet how often does your Smart TV tell you you need to update it's Linux based OS? You really think the population is regularly going to check the Smart TV Firmware date and as soon as it gets to the point it no longer can be updated, or is 6/8/12 months behind Linux, they'll trash it and buy a new one? In most cases it's not even the device that tells you it's OS has EOLed, it's some other vendor's software (Google Maps/Neflix) that tells you you can't download the latest version because you aren't running the latest OS. Cars, cameras, fridges and a whole heap more are starting to run Linux/Android and be network connected; unfortunately the bottom line, not security, is the driving factor for this choice. As I said, I predict this will increase the number of EOLed OSes available to unscrupulous entities to exploit. From selander at tkf.att.ne.jp Mon May 15 19:25:50 2017 From: selander at tkf.att.ne.jp (Tim Selander) Date: Tue, 16 May 2017 08:25:50 +0900 Subject: IP to decimal function? In-Reply-To: <4232FFFC-5DFC-44CB-B4E3-9F2CB4F087D2@iotecdigital.com> References: <5917EA56.3070307@tkf.att.ne.jp> <4232FFFC-5DFC-44CB-B4E3-9F2CB4F087D2@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <591A38FE.3070100@tkf.att.ne.jp> OK, this "master library" is new info to me! Googled it, found a brief reference and download link in the forums. Will now have a look at it! Tim Selander Tokyo, Japan On 2017/05/16 0:01, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > I wrote something of the sort called IPCalc. It should be in the master library. > > Bob S > > >> On May 13, 2017, at 22:25 , Tim Selander via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Hi >> >> I need to convert IP address from web logs to decimal for easier processing... >> >> Before I try to "reinvent the wheel" (and no doubt roll off a cliff) I'm wondering if anyone already has such a function they'd be willing to share? >> >> TIA >> >> Tim Selander >> Tokyo, Japan >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From alex at tweedly.net Mon May 15 20:01:11 2017 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Tue, 16 May 2017 01:01:11 +0100 Subject: Seeking recommendations / suggestions for use of library stacks. In-Reply-To: References: <3ddf506a-fc2d-db68-c72a-566ffd432431@tweedly.net> <021bde96-9a4c-3a44-146d-183caa234b6f@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <7ab39445-92d2-d106-5cd7-9375c0243f20@tweedly.net> Thanks Ali, that's a nice idea. But just in case anyone else does the same as me (i.e. copy/paste it without looking too hard :-) : there should NOT be an 'else' clause in there .... right now it will either set the variable OR do the initialization, when in fact it should do BOTH or NEITHER; i.e. it should be > local sIHaveBeenInitialized > on librarystack > if sIHaveBeenInitialized is empty then > put the millisecs into sIHaveBeenInitialized > doLibraryInitialization > end if > end librarystack On 15/05/2017 09:40, Ali Lloyd via use-livecode wrote: > One simple way to make this slightly nicer would be to make sure all your > initialisation happens in a separate handler eg (doLibraryInitialization), > and use your script local lock in the libraryStack handler > >> local sIHaveBeenInitialized >> on librarystack >> if sIHaveBeenInitialized is empty then >> put the millisecs into sIHaveBeenInitialized >> else >> doLibraryInitialization >> end if >> end librarystack > Then you don't need a separate library_reset handler, just call > doLibraryInitialization from the message box. Of course you still might > want to flip it from public to private once you deploy. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon May 15 20:23:16 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 15 May 2017 17:23:16 -0700 Subject: WannaCry [OT] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <84dd251e-4a61-3555-923d-fdeb0765d74d@fourthworld.com> Good thoughts, Kay. The DDoS last October only reinforced my inherent distrust of IoT devices. Until we see some enforced security standards, I have no interest in "smart cars", "smart TVs" or "smart homes". When I look at those products I just see one big botnet. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Kay C Lan wrote: > On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 3:13 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode > wrote: >> >> Might it be (again, we can't know for sure until we talk with each vendor) >> that they simply soldered too little RAM onto the motherboard and provided >> no means of updating the OS because they weren't thinking long-term? >> > Hmmm sounds so simply, but I think when you are talking about any > machine worth more than $1000, especially from any reputable provider > (i.e. one that would win a government contract) then a huge amount of > thought and design has gone into all the compromises necessary to > achieve the 'current objective' whilst achieving an acceptable ROI. In > every case, I'm sure there'd be a desire to make it more modular, add > more RAM, add more software features, or make it smaller or lighter, > but just like the other Post about Tom Pitman and his need to reduce > 257bytes of code down to 256 because that was all that was physically > available; there will always be some constraint where today's > technology and hindsight make it easy to say 'if only they did > this/that/the other'. >> >> If hardware vendors are looking for control over their platforms, perhaps >> they should be looking at open source OSes so they have access to the source >> code, ensuring that it will do always be able to do what they need. >> > Again it sounds good but my own prediction is that open source OSes > for 'the internet of everything' will be opening the floodgates for > exploitations that will effect a wider portion of the community, more > and more often. I'm particularly thinking of cheap Chinese smart > phones and TVs. My parents have gone through several cheap Chinese > smart phones (Huwei to name one brand) that have all ended up getting > to an OS version and then can no longer be upgraded. The phone still > makes phone calls; no software makes a phone conversation any better. > That's all my parents, and the vast majority of the population needs. > They are not going to buy another phone just because the OS has EOLed. > The phone gets upgraded only when it's no longer fit for purpose - > battery doesn't last long enough. Same with Smart TVs but on a much > worse scale. Few companies, and certainly no cheap Chinese brand > company has any interest, once they've sold you a TV and made a slim > margin of profit on it, in keeping the OSes up to date. How often does > Linux get a security update, yet how often does your Smart TV tell you > you need to update it's Linux based OS? You really think the > population is regularly going to check the Smart TV Firmware date and > as soon as it gets to the point it no longer can be updated, or is > 6/8/12 months behind Linux, they'll trash it and buy a new one? In > most cases it's not even the device that tells you it's OS has EOLed, > it's some other vendor's software (Google Maps/Neflix) that tells you > you can't download the latest version because you aren't running the > latest OS. > > Cars, cameras, fridges and a whole heap more are starting to run > Linux/Android and be network connected; unfortunately the bottom line, > not security, is the driving factor for this choice. As I said, I > predict this will increase the number of EOLed OSes available to > unscrupulous entities to exploit. From capellan2000 at gmail.com Mon May 15 23:38:36 2017 From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada) Date: Mon, 15 May 2017 23:38:36 -0400 Subject: Identical and similar blend modes Message-ID: After a quick test, these are my results looking for identical and similar blend modes but notice that these results could differ from your own results: 1) srcXor = BlendExclusion = BlendDifference 2) srcOr = addMax = addPin = BlendDodge = BlendLighten = blendScreen = BlendPlus 3) srcCopy = Transparent = BlendHardLight 4) srcAnd = adMin = BlendBurn = BlendDarken = BlendMultiply 5) addOver = noop = BlendDstOver subPin almost looks like reverse There are many aritmetic and bitwise blending modes that do not have a direct equivalent using Imaging blend modes... but probably (or not) these blending modes could be "simulated" using color overlays, groups, structural blends and imaging blend modes Al From brahma at hindu.org Mon May 15 23:47:30 2017 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Tue, 16 May 2017 03:47:30 +0000 Subject: Dispatching Messages to Closed Stacks Which Are Not in Memory In-Reply-To: <90f8f06f-ca08-bef6-cf38-2489625c1f75@hyperactivesw.com> References: <90f8f06f-ca08-bef6-cf38-2489625c1f75@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <901C6A98-BF9D-4B9A-A59E-520A1EBCEFB0@hindu.org> right, I can see the stack in the project browser after the dispatch call but it is not actually open as a top stack? what doesn't make sense is that a) there is no dictionary word "open" b) but if you run open "gems" in the msg box it opens the stack in the GUI as the top stack c) If you close the stack and remove from memory but run "dispatch" some handler to that stack "re-opens" but is not open in the GUI as a top stack? Yes it's stack script is available for us to talk to; but it is not "really" open in the way that open "gems" opens it. OK? d) I suspect it is open in mode 0 - **Mode 0: closed but loaded** confirmed: put the mode of stack "gems" [returns] 0 so "re-open" is misleading.. it is closed but loaded (new concept for me after 30 years of xtalk!) so what is the optimum option (especially for mobile) to show the stack after loading it? "Go me" or "toplevel me" neither work in the handler in the stack "gems") which is in mode 0? "me" seems to continue to refer to the stack issuing the dispatch (stack "journal") I have to pass an explicit reference to the stack by using it's own name that is loaded but not open? so our generic "journalResume" handler now looks like this where this script is in the stack "gems" that is "closed but loaded" and pEntryA["module"] = "gems" on journalResume pDataA, pEntryA answer "Got the Resume Message" with "OK" go stack pEntryA["module"] end journalResume that works? and the logic makes sense. but seems like we have to work too hard? would be neater to have a way to dispatch and toplevel at the same time. i.e. " Executing a dispatch command causes the message to be sent to the target object with the given argument list." have dispatch also be able to set the mode of the stack it is sending the message to. BR On 5/15/17, 8:15 AM, "use-livecode on behalf of J. Landman Gay via use-livecode" wrote: Any reference to a stack will re-open it. The reference here is in the dispatch command. From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Tue May 16 01:46:47 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Tue, 16 May 2017 00:46:47 -0500 Subject: WannaCry [OT] In-Reply-To: <84dd251e-4a61-3555-923d-fdeb0765d74d@fourthworld.com> References: <84dd251e-4a61-3555-923d-fdeb0765d74d@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <9a7d2954-aa14-3d70-4f02-37188367db75@hyperactivesw.com> On 5/15/17 7:23 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > Until we see some enforced security standards, I have no interest in > "smart cars", "smart TVs" or "smart homes". When I look at those > products I just see one big botnet. Ditto. But I do want a smart home and I've had one for years. We still use the older X10/Insteon protocol, which I suspect is more convenient than a smartphone because I don't have to speak commands or find my phone to launch an app. Sensors and timers manage everything, there's no network connection at all, and I hardly ever need to flip a light switch. Not to mention, I don't want my refrigerator to know what I'm eating and I have zero interest in turning on my crockpot remotely. They're *supposed* to cook all day. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From mark at livecode.com Tue May 16 03:15:33 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Tue, 16 May 2017 09:15:33 +0200 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 82 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4f8fffcfc262b8c893c8d00a225d368b@livecode.com> On 2017-05-15 23:22, Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode wrote: > This Skia feature named: Perlin Noise Shader > could have this syntax: > > set the fractalperlinNoise of selobj to "0.05, 0.05, 4, 0.0" > set the turbulenceperlinNoise of selobj to "0.05, 0.05, 4, 0.0" > > This Skia feature named: Blur Mask Filter > could have this syntax: > > set the blur of selobj to 5 > set the hqblur of selobj to 10 > I'd actually suggest that filters should be a list / array - you need to be able to specify the order. Indeed, the general model is that filters are applied after the control is rasterized but before its rasterized buffer (with transparency) is composited into the parent. The bitmapEffects we currently have are filters - they do have a prescribed order (as they were modelled on PhotoShop's - which at the time fixed the order, I'm not sure whether that has changed); but in reality there is use in them being reorderable and to allow multiple applications of the same kind (for example you might want two dropshadows with different displacement). > This Skia feature named: SkMatrix > could have this syntax: > > set the perspective of selobj to "1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 1, > 0, 0, > 0, 0" A perspective transform is a generalization of an affine transform (indeed, I'd suggest transform, not perspective as the future property) - affine transforms (2x3 matrices) extend to pseudo-perspective transforms (3x3) extend to 3d transforms (4x4) by simple extension of the matrix (putting 1's and 0's in the appropraite places). However, there is a lot of difficulty involved in getting transforms to work in Livecode (as has been discussed before) due to the way co-ordinates are handled - they are always card-relative and are currently integers in the engine - which makes things somewhat tricky. It would be nice to have though :) Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mark at livecode.com Tue May 16 03:17:55 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Tue, 16 May 2017 09:17:55 +0200 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 82 In-Reply-To: <461c0ea1-0cda-19fb-9cf0-a6f65a7e9985@gmail.com> References: <350a0d1d-5410-51b3-9c7e-a55f7a331678@gmail.com> <461c0ea1-0cda-19fb-9cf0-a6f65a7e9985@gmail.com> Message-ID: <25bcf41d8089047637725f61b713039a@livecode.com> On 2017-05-15 22:05, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: > "the modern era" > > Ah; such an awful pity that both Thee and Me have more important things > to do; > > we could have such fun playing "semantic squash". Hehe - indeed, modern should have been 'modern'* with: * 'Modern' in the context of the evolution of the way 2d graphics is expressed in computing. It has gone from pixel-oriented bitwise operations; to color-oriented transparent blending operations. ;) Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mark at livecode.com Tue May 16 03:44:29 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Tue, 16 May 2017 09:44:29 +0200 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 82 In-Reply-To: <698301E1-4DD9-4ED1-A916-042C176AEEFD@hyperhh.de> References: <698301E1-4DD9-4ED1-A916-042C176AEEFD@hyperhh.de> Message-ID: <6d381ef5f2e6823f50621e524b0a354c@livecode.com> On 2017-05-15 21:21, hh via use-livecode wrote: >> Mark W. wrote: >> > and most of these legacy Blend Modes: >> > clear, noop, notSrcAnd, notSrcAndReverse, >> > notSrcCopy, notSrcOr, notSrcOrReverse, >> > notSrcXor, reverse, set, srcAnd, >> > srcAndReverse, srcCopy, srcOr, >> > srcOrReverse, srcXor, blend, addPin >> > addOver, subPin, transparent >> > adMin, addMax > >> We're still on the fency about all of these - I do wonder how >> much they are used anymore particularly as they do not fit into >> the RGBA rendering model which everyone uses anymore and as such >> are incredibly inefficient. (They will never be acceleratable, >> for example). > >> I'd be surprised if people couldn't get similar effects by using >> appropriate blend inks - if they are still in use at all. > >> Ali L. wrote: >> To be fair, the docs claim the legacy blend modes have been deprecated >> since LC 5! We've supported them for quite a long time >> post-deprecation... > > 1. Please read this twice and don't cry ... > > The default blendLevel of each and every LC object that has an ink is > "srcCopy" --- 'incredibly inefficient' as you judge it. > > 2. How do you define a "similar" effect? > 3. Please tell me for example which "similar" blend effect allows a > dark > theme in the script editor which is currently simly done by setting > the > fields ink to "notSrcCopy". Okay so - I take it the current approach is: edit script of stack "revmenubar" set the ink of field "Script" of stack "revNewScriptEditor 1" to "notSrcCopy" Which gives the exact same effect as: set the ink of field "Script" of stack "revNewScriptEditor 1" to "blendDifference" As far as I can see, anyway... However a better effect (due to the way drawing works, transparency, antialiasing and such like) is to actually set the colors of the field. i.e. - backgroundColor black (inverse of white) - each color assigned to the colorization inverted in the same way The former is directly configurable in preferences; the latter current has three fixed modes also configurable in preferences (none, default, classic). The colorization 'schemes' are defined in the seColorizationLoadScheme handler in the revseutilitiesbehavior.livecodescript file: These are easy to add to - or better yet, a little dialog in preferences which allows you to add / remove them would be cool. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mark at livecode.com Tue May 16 04:46:16 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Tue, 16 May 2017 10:46:16 +0200 Subject: WannaCry [OT] In-Reply-To: <84dd251e-4a61-3555-923d-fdeb0765d74d@fourthworld.com> References: <84dd251e-4a61-3555-923d-fdeb0765d74d@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <5df11c345af3bd65b76508a3b25d74bc@livecode.com> On 2017-05-16 02:23, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > Until we see some enforced security standards, I have no interest in > "smart cars", "smart TVs" or "smart homes". When I look at those > products I just see one big botnet. I'd at least hope that 'smart cars' software is engineered to a much higher standard than other places: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MISRA_C [ Of course, it is slightly worrying that Chrome thinks that www.misra-c.com is 'Not Secure' ;) ] Such standards, processes and tooling helps to ensure that code that is written minimizes the chance of vulnerabilities *in the code* (e.g. buffer overruns). Of course it doesn't necessarily cover vulnerabilities in design - e.g. in protocols. There are other methods to ensure this is the case (at least in terms of the code): - adequate automated testing (100% coverage being the goal - i.e. the tests should exercise every line of code). - fuzz testing (giving random inputs to every module in a system to make sure it handles any potential case gracefully). - extensive code review (i.e. ensuring that code does not make it into a system unless it has been thoroughly checked by as many people as possible). - use static analysis tools (e.g. Coverity). Of course, the principal issue really is that most code which is used in critical systems (and systems generally) tends to be C/C++ - or something like Java where the VM and parts of the supporting libraries are written in C/C++ (e.g. Smart TVs, Blu-Ray players, Android phones). C/C++ are inherently unsafe (let you do things which are wrong) languages (although it is becoming increasingly easy to write safe code in C++ - as long as you use it in a specific way - you cannot yet turn off unsafe aspects of the language which means they can be used). The reason they are unsafe is because the design of them means that static checking is really hard to do well (the depth of what Coverity does, for example is quite astounding but it is not perfect by any means) and impossible to do completely. The solution then is to use *safe* languages - ones which don't let you write code which contains the kind of exploitable vulnerability which result in virii being able to be written in the first place. However, the reality is that the number of safe-systems-languages (ones where it is possible to write device drivers, kernels etc.) in existence is well, negligible (Rust is probably the only one which has floated to the surface of the dev community in recent years that I can think of); this combined with the fact that there are probably not just billions but trillions of lines of C/C++ code in the world means that things are probably not going to change much soon - the cost to rewrite all of that in a language such as Rust would probably be larger than the entire economic output of the entire world. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mark at livecode.com Tue May 16 04:49:21 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Tue, 16 May 2017 10:49:21 +0200 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 82 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <009bd86e5fc7f0f898940b8cf8317186@livecode.com> On 2017-05-15 21:11, Roger Eller via use-livecode wrote: > I just looked in the dictionary of 6.7.5 (my daily driver), and only > srcCopy concerns me, as it is the default for any image placed as a > control. I also found an image that I had placed with addMax applied. > This saved me the trouble of taking it into Photoshop of Gimp to create > the > same effect. I'll roll with the changes. As I said elsewhere, srcCopy is the same as blendSrcOver and only has a distinction when it is applied to a group. In terms of the others, there are effects you can get with the 'legacy' inks and it is useful to file those uses with us so we can see what they are and how to add replacements. In the case of things applied to images, a general convolve/colormatrix type property would probably give much more flexibility - and fit in much better with the 'graphics pipelines' of today (rather than those of the 1980's). Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Tue May 16 06:32:59 2017 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Tue, 16 May 2017 06:32:59 -0400 Subject: Identical and similar blend modes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Results may vary depending on OS, video card, and/or video drivers. Many of these appear subtly different to me. ~Roger On May 15, 2017 11:39 PM, "Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode" < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > After a quick test, these are my results > looking for identical and similar blend modes > but notice that these results could differ > from your own results: > > 1) srcXor = BlendExclusion = BlendDifference > > 2) srcOr = addMax = addPin = BlendDodge = BlendLighten = blendScreen = > BlendPlus > > 3) srcCopy = Transparent = BlendHardLight > > 4) srcAnd = adMin = BlendBurn = BlendDarken = BlendMultiply > > 5) addOver = noop = BlendDstOver > > subPin almost looks like reverse > > There are many aritmetic and bitwise blending modes > that do not have a direct equivalent using Imaging > blend modes... but probably (or not) these blending > modes could be "simulated" using color overlays, > groups, structural blends and imaging blend modes > > Al > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From nabble at mad.pink Tue May 16 07:34:20 2017 From: nabble at mad.pink (pink) Date: Tue, 16 May 2017 04:34:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Seeking recommendations / suggestions for use of library stacks. In-Reply-To: <7ab39445-92d2-d106-5cd7-9375c0243f20@tweedly.net> References: <3ddf506a-fc2d-db68-c72a-566ffd432431@tweedly.net> <021bde96-9a4c-3a44-146d-183caa234b6f@hyperactivesw.com> <7ab39445-92d2-d106-5cd7-9375c0243f20@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <1494934460190-4714910.post@n4.nabble.com> what about putting the process into the library stack files themselves? For example, when I use my CouchDB library I also load fastJSON: on libraryStack if "couchDBLib" is not among the lines stacksInUse then start using stack "couchDBLib" if "fastJSONlib" is not among the lines stacksInUse then start using stack "fastJSONlib" end libraryStack on releaseStack if "couchDBLib" is among the lines stacksInUse then stop using stack "couchDBLib" if "fastJSONlib" is among the lines stacksInUse then stop using stack "fastJSONlib" end releaseStack note that using "is among" and "is not among" is not optional otherwise you end up in an infinite loop ----- --- Greg (pink) Miller mad, pink and dangerous to code -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Seeking-recommendations-suggestions-for-use-of-library-stacks-tp4714836p4714910.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From hh at hyperhh.de Tue May 16 08:51:20 2017 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Tue, 16 May 2017 14:51:20 +0200 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 82 Message-ID: <86395532-61F6-48B8-9D4D-68E1491F6EFE@hyperhh.de> Yes, thanks. [You did probably test on Mac only. It's not worth to mix in the problem of linux (and Raspi) with blend modes/transparency here.] Anyway, I updated my stack to a simple Theme-switcher, usable as tiny plugin and included it to post RaspberryPi stacks #89 ( http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?p=150402#p150402 ). I find it more comfortable (what the stack does by one click) to simply reverse all current settings of the prefs for theme and background by setting the blend modes. That's pretty fast and one can use it for each script editor window differently dark or light: incredibly efficient ;-) > Okay so - I take it the current approach is: > > edit script of stack "revmenubar" > set the ink of field "Script" of stack "revNewScriptEditor 1" to > "notSrcCopy" > > Which gives the exact same effect as: > > set the ink of field "Script" of stack "revNewScriptEditor 1" to > "blendDifference" > > As far as I can see, anyway... > > However a better effect (due to the way drawing works, transparency, > antialiasing and > such like) is to actually set the colors of the field. i.e. > > - backgroundColor black (inverse of white) > - each color assigned to the colorization inverted in the same way > > The former is directly configurable in preferences; the latter current > has three > fixed modes also configurable in preferences (none, default, classic). > The colorization > 'schemes' are defined in the seColorizationLoadScheme handler in the > revseutilitiesbehavior.livecodescript file: > > b633a07eddc577887b94bd09cbc2d4ef4f50f4be/Toolset/palettes/ > script%20editor/behaviors/revsestackbehavior.livecodescript> > > These are easy to add to - or better yet, a little dialog in preferences > which allows > you to add / remove them would be cool. > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. From capellan2000 at gmail.com Tue May 16 10:45:57 2017 From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada) Date: Tue, 16 May 2017 10:45:57 -0400 Subject: WannaCry [OT] Message-ID: Mark Waddingan wrote: > the fact that there are probably not just billions > but trillions of lines of C/C++ code in the world > means that things are probably not going to change > much soon - the cost to rewrite all of that in a language > such as Rust would probably be larger than the entire > economic output of the entire world. That is exactly the kind of work that Artificial Intelligence could do without breaking the bank! :-) Al From jonathandlynch at gmail.com Tue May 16 10:54:40 2017 From: jonathandlynch at gmail.com (jonathandlynch at gmail.com) Date: Tue, 16 May 2017 10:54:40 -0400 Subject: WannaCry [OT] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Right before it absorbs us into the machine overlord. Sent from my iPhone > On May 16, 2017, at 10:45 AM, Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode wrote: > > Mark Waddingan wrote: >> the fact that there are probably not just billions >> but trillions of lines of C/C++ code in the world >> means that things are probably not going to change >> much soon - the cost to rewrite all of that in a language >> such as Rust would probably be larger than the entire >> economic output of the entire world. > > That is exactly the kind of work that > Artificial Intelligence could do without > breaking the bank! :-) > > Al > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Tue May 16 10:59:22 2017 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Tue, 16 May 2017 10:59:22 -0400 Subject: WannaCry [OT] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: http://hackaday.com/2017/05/04/google-aiy-artificial-intelligence-yourself/ On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 10:54 AM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Right before it absorbs us into the machine overlord. > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On May 16, 2017, at 10:45 AM, Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > Mark Waddingan wrote: > >> the fact that there are probably not just billions > >> but trillions of lines of C/C++ code in the world > >> means that things are probably not going to change > >> much soon - the cost to rewrite all of that in a language > >> such as Rust would probably be larger than the entire > >> economic output of the entire world. > > > > That is exactly the kind of work that > > Artificial Intelligence could do without > > breaking the bank! :-) > > > > Al > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue May 16 12:17:48 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 16 May 2017 16:17:48 +0000 Subject: Dispatching Messages to Closed Stacks Which Are Not in Memory In-Reply-To: <901C6A98-BF9D-4B9A-A59E-520A1EBCEFB0@hindu.org> References: <90f8f06f-ca08-bef6-cf38-2489625c1f75@hyperactivesw.com> <901C6A98-BF9D-4B9A-A59E-520A1EBCEFB0@hindu.org> Message-ID: <1E66CE8D-F1CA-4ABB-B659-E3F3346F579D@iotecdigital.com> I think you are confusing the meaning of "open" with "running in the IDE". Library stacks open but may have no windows or controls created in the IDE. In fact a script only stack has no graphical elements at all. "Open" means "Open as a file that loads into memory". Bob S > On May 15, 2017, at 20:47 , Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode wrote: > > "re-opens" but is not open in the GUI as a top stack? > Yes it's stack script is available for us to talk to; > but it is not "really" open in the way that From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue May 16 12:18:41 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 16 May 2017 16:18:41 +0000 Subject: WannaCry [OT] In-Reply-To: <84dd251e-4a61-3555-923d-fdeb0765d74d@fourthworld.com> References: <84dd251e-4a61-3555-923d-fdeb0765d74d@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <9BDD0885-D2AD-433A-93D9-72C6AF275EE8@iotecdigital.com> Agreed. Bob S > On May 15, 2017, at 17:23 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > Good thoughts, Kay. > > The DDoS last October only reinforced my inherent distrust of IoT devices. > > Until we see some enforced security standards, I have no interest in "smart cars", "smart TVs" or "smart homes". When I look at those products I just see one big botnet. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue May 16 12:20:20 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 16 May 2017 16:20:20 +0000 Subject: WannaCry [OT] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8FA77579-0F7D-47E0-9B56-765DEC5A3316@iotecdigital.com> We won't all be absorbed. Some will need to work as slaves in the real world. Bob S > On May 16, 2017, at 07:54 , Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode wrote: > > Right before it absorbs us into the machine overlord. > > Sent from my iPhone From mark at livecode.com Tue May 16 13:12:21 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Tue, 16 May 2017 19:12:21 +0200 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 82 In-Reply-To: <86395532-61F6-48B8-9D4D-68E1491F6EFE@hyperhh.de> References: <86395532-61F6-48B8-9D4D-68E1491F6EFE@hyperhh.de> Message-ID: On 2017-05-16 14:51, hh via use-livecode wrote: > Yes, thanks. [You did probably test on Mac only. It's not worth to mix > in the problem of linux (and Raspi) with blend modes/transparency > here.] I don't recall seeing any bug reports about inks/transparency on Linux - could you elaborate? > Anyway, I updated my stack to a simple Theme-switcher, usable as tiny > plugin and included it to post RaspberryPi stacks #89 > ( http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?p=150402#p150402 ). > > I find it more comfortable (what the stack does by one click) to simply > reverse all current settings of the prefs for theme and background by > setting the blend modes. That's pretty fast and one can use it for each > script editor window differently dark or light: incredibly efficient > ;-) In terms of number of lines of code to achieve the effect, perhaps - but not for the poor CPU... Any control which has an ink other than srcCopy has to be rendered into an offscreen buffer before it can be composited into the parent. So, technically, the CPU would be happier if the colors used in the first place were just inverted ;) Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mark at livecode.com Tue May 16 13:18:06 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Tue, 16 May 2017 19:18:06 +0200 Subject: Identical and similar blend modes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6ef756ba8ed1e2d615b98083c9b35549@livecode.com> On 2017-05-16 12:32, Roger Eller via use-livecode wrote: > Results may vary depending on OS, video card, and/or video drivers. > Many > of these appear subtly different to me. They shouldn't - all the blend mode code is cross-platform - so if there is a difference across platform (which isn't down to just differences in the Monitor's Color Profile) it would be a bug! In this case, it is probably just that what you see will depend on what the colors/alpha of the destination and source pixels are. Indeed, for some of the 'structural' blend modes, they don't do very much unless they are used within a group which has ink 'blendSrcOver', as they modify the destination alpha channel (which cards don't really have). Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From dochawk at gmail.com Tue May 16 13:20:39 2017 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Tue, 16 May 2017 10:20:39 -0700 Subject: WannaCry [OT] In-Reply-To: <9a7d2954-aa14-3d70-4f02-37188367db75@hyperactivesw.com> References: <84dd251e-4a61-3555-923d-fdeb0765d74d@fourthworld.com> <9a7d2954-aa14-3d70-4f02-37188367db75@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 10:46 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Ditto. But I do want a smart home and I've had one for years. We still use > the older X10/Insteon protocol, wasn't that the one that had the add with the girl in the flesh-colored tshirt bouncing around? I remember one of my small chiodren asking why she didn't have a shirt . . . Home automation is another boat that apple missed begore finally getting their act together. The Mac IIfx (1990) had a pare of custom co-processors, essentially 10mhz 6502s with 32k each (iirc) RAM & ROM. One of these controlled the serial ports, including AppleTalk, along with other small tasks. Add that appletalk worked well over existing in-house phone wiring, those processors could have been mass produced, and used the second pair in existing wiring. Apple would have *owned* home automation at the time. Then again, given their thinking at the time, they probably would have expected to sell you your television, toaster, and front door as part of this, so maybe not. In that err, if they could have produced a Rolls Royce for $1000, they would have gone broke by only selling it as part of an apple house to have the garage . . . 90 -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From brahma at hindu.org Tue May 16 13:31:03 2017 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Tue, 16 May 2017 17:31:03 +0000 Subject: Dispatching Messages to Closed Stacks Which Are Not in Memory In-Reply-To: <1E66CE8D-F1CA-4ABB-B659-E3F3346F579D@iotecdigital.com> References: <90f8f06f-ca08-bef6-cf38-2489625c1f75@hyperactivesw.com> <901C6A98-BF9D-4B9A-A59E-520A1EBCEFB0@hindu.org> <1E66CE8D-F1CA-4ABB-B659-E3F3346F579D@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <438B9BE8-A52D-4F15-B5BA-FB37845C1842@hindu.org> Bob: I think you are confusing the meaning of "open" with "running in the IDE". Library stacks open but may have no windows or controls created in the IDE. In fact a script only stack has no graphical elements at all. "Open" means "Open as a file that loads into memory". Indeed, I have been under that misconception for a long time. and true, that was obvious for any files that have no LiveCode GUI layer component (script only stacks, text files), but was unexpect for stack that have actual cards/controls, especially since? all these years "open someStack" has been a common thing for me to do from the msg box. Also I would not say "IDE" but in the "UI space" because is not limited to the IDE. then why does open "some stack" in the msg box toplevel it? Enhancement "idea" still stands? Simple way to toplevel (or open in any mode other than 0) stack A with "dispatch " from another stack B And since : open SomeStack toplevels it from the msg box, why not from script? BR From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Tue May 16 14:10:36 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Tue, 16 May 2017 13:10:36 -0500 Subject: Dispatching Messages to Closed Stacks Which Are Not in Memory In-Reply-To: <901C6A98-BF9D-4B9A-A59E-520A1EBCEFB0@hindu.org> References: <90f8f06f-ca08-bef6-cf38-2489625c1f75@hyperactivesw.com> <901C6A98-BF9D-4B9A-A59E-520A1EBCEFB0@hindu.org> Message-ID: <3074dd03-85d7-e544-6c5a-ed8b5432473c@hyperactivesw.com> On 5/15/17 10:47 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode wrote: > ut seems like we have to work too hard? > would be neater to have a way to dispatch and toplevel at the same time. They serve different purposes. "Dispatch" controls the message path. "Open" controls the state of the stack in the UI. There are many instances where you do not want the stack toplevel or even visible but you do want it to be in the message path. Dispatch and "send" are similar. You would not expect a stack to toplevel itself every time you send a message to it. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From stephen at barncard.com Tue May 16 14:38:10 2017 From: stephen at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard) Date: Tue, 16 May 2017 11:38:10 -0700 Subject: WannaCry [OT] In-Reply-To: <8FA77579-0F7D-47E0-9B56-765DEC5A3316@iotecdigital.com> References: <8FA77579-0F7D-47E0-9B56-765DEC5A3316@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: It is not trivial that the main character in *The Matrix *is a coder. On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 9:20 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > We won't all be absorbed. Some will need to work as slaves in the real > world. > -- Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA - mixstream.org From capellan2000 at gmail.com Tue May 16 14:55:25 2017 From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada) Date: Tue, 16 May 2017 14:55:25 -0400 Subject: Android Touchscreen Malfunction Message-ID: Hi All, Recently, while testing a stack in an Android Phone, I found with surprise that mouseup and mousedown messages were triggered very fast (2 or 3 times in succession). After checking the phone screen, I noticed a small (almost unnoticeable) crack in the corner. How could we change our mouseup and mousedown scripts for Android Apps to make a workaround for these kind of malfunctions? Thanks in advance! Al From paul at researchware.com Tue May 16 15:13:03 2017 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Tue, 16 May 2017 15:13:03 -0400 Subject: Android Touchscreen Malfunction In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 5/16/2017 2:55 PM, Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode wrote: > Hi All, > > Recently, while testing a stack in an Android Phone, > I found with surprise that mouseup and mousedown > messages were triggered very fast (2 or 3 times in > succession). > > After checking the phone screen, I noticed a small > (almost unnoticeable) crack in the corner. > > How could we change our mouseup and mousedown > scripts for Android Apps to make a workaround > for these kind of malfunctions? in your handler for mouseDown (or mouseUp) check the pendingMessages (see Dictionary if unfamiliar with pendingMessages) for any other mouseDown (or mosueUp) messages pending for the same object and the one executing. From ambassador at fourthworld.com Tue May 16 16:32:22 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue, 16 May 2017 13:32:22 -0700 Subject: Android Touchscreen Malfunction In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <00158ec6-70d4-fefa-4025-e01c325e1cd2@fourthworld.com> Paul Dupuis wrote: > in your handler for mouseDown (or mouseUp) check the pendingMessages > (see Dictionary if unfamiliar with pendingMessages) for any other > mouseDown (or mosueUp) messages pending for the same object and the > one executing. Wouldn't the pendingMessages be limited to timers? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ahsoftware at sonic.net Tue May 16 16:48:41 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Tue, 16 May 2017 13:48:41 -0700 Subject: Writing Extensions Message-ID: <64acd5c7-95b7-8a31-8868-62b0458e942e@sonic.net> Having spent a bit of the day experimenting with LCB, I have this to say: the documentation is atrocious ...also, the only thing I have to say about error reporting in the Extension Builder is that it lets you know there's an error. There's a caret displayed under the error line that misleadingly appears to point to the problem, when actually it's just pointing to the middle of the line. And "Syntax error" isn't a very rewarding message. It took me three hours today to figure out how to convert a hex number into decimal format. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Tue May 16 16:49:44 2017 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Tue, 16 May 2017 16:49:44 -0400 Subject: Writing Extensions In-Reply-To: <64acd5c7-95b7-8a31-8868-62b0458e942e@sonic.net> References: <64acd5c7-95b7-8a31-8868-62b0458e942e@sonic.net> Message-ID: yep. it's not fun, yet. On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 4:48 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Having spent a bit of the day experimenting with LCB, I have this to say: > > the documentation is atrocious > > ...also, the only thing I have to say about error reporting in the > Extension Builder is that it lets you know there's an error. There's a > caret displayed under the error line that misleadingly appears to point to > the problem, when actually it's just pointing to the middle of the line. > And "Syntax error" isn't a very rewarding message. > > It took me three hours today to figure out how to convert a hex number > into decimal format. > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From paul at researchware.com Tue May 16 16:55:21 2017 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Tue, 16 May 2017 16:55:21 -0400 Subject: Android Touchscreen Malfunction In-Reply-To: <00158ec6-70d4-fefa-4025-e01c325e1cd2@fourthworld.com> References: <00158ec6-70d4-fefa-4025-e01c325e1cd2@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <1b02a2ec-fd2b-f092-91cf-ff29d5008947@researchware.com> On 5/16/2017 4:32 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > Paul Dupuis wrote: > > > in your handler for mouseDown (or mouseUp) check the pendingMessages > > (see Dictionary if unfamiliar with pendingMessages) for any other > > mouseDown (or mosueUp) messages pending for the same object and the > > one executing. > > Wouldn't the pendingMessages be limited to timers? > My mistake. I thought that system messages that were queued up were also listed in the pendingMessages, so that if, for some reason, move mouseDown messages were generated while the handler responding to the current mouseDown was still executing, said "extra" messages would be in the pendingMessage queue. From capellan2000 at gmail.com Tue May 16 17:03:51 2017 From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada) Date: Tue, 16 May 2017 17:03:51 -0400 Subject: Writing Extensions Message-ID: Hi Mark, Did you choose this task to measure how fast is LiveCode Builder? I want to know the answer too. How fast is LCB working with imagedata? How fast is LCB working with transform matrices? Al On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 4:48 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Having spent a bit of the day experimenting with LCB, I have this to say: > > the documentation is atrocious > > ...also, the only thing I have to say about error reporting in the > Extension Builder is that it lets you know there's an error. There's a > caret displayed under the error line that misleadingly appears to point to > the problem, when actually it's just pointing to the middle of the line. > And "Syntax error" isn't a very rewarding message. > > It took me three hours today to figure out how to convert a hex number > into decimal format. From jonathandlynch at gmail.com Tue May 16 17:38:59 2017 From: jonathandlynch at gmail.com (jonathandlynch at gmail.com) Date: Tue, 16 May 2017 16:38:59 -0500 Subject: Writing Extensions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9C3BA69D-9398-49C7-8659-C0A6091AB241@gmail.com> I also am curious about this. Sent from my iPhone > On May 16, 2017, at 4:03 PM, Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi Mark, > > Did you choose this task to measure how fast > is LiveCode Builder? > > I want to know the answer too. > How fast is LCB working with imagedata? > How fast is LCB working with transform matrices? > > Al > > On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 4:48 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> Having spent a bit of the day experimenting with LCB, I have this to say: >> >> the documentation is atrocious >> >> ...also, the only thing I have to say about error reporting in the >> Extension Builder is that it lets you know there's an error. There's a >> caret displayed under the error line that misleadingly appears to point to >> the problem, when actually it's just pointing to the middle of the line. >> And "Syntax error" isn't a very rewarding message. >> >> It took me three hours today to figure out how to convert a hex number >> into decimal format. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From stephen at barncard.com Tue May 16 17:47:03 2017 From: stephen at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard) Date: Tue, 16 May 2017 14:47:03 -0700 Subject: Writing Extensions In-Reply-To: <64acd5c7-95b7-8a31-8868-62b0458e942e@sonic.net> References: <64acd5c7-95b7-8a31-8868-62b0458e942e@sonic.net> Message-ID: On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 1:48 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > It took me three hours today to figure out how to convert a hex number > into decimal format. Why? Because the IP is IPV6 ? Large hex number that overflows? -- Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA - mixstream.org From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Tue May 16 17:49:57 2017 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe) Date: Tue, 16 May 2017 23:49:57 +0200 Subject: Writing Extensions In-Reply-To: <64acd5c7-95b7-8a31-8868-62b0458e942e@sonic.net> References: <64acd5c7-95b7-8a31-8868-62b0458e942e@sonic.net> Message-ID: <1BAAC0DA-E678-4A4D-B4B8-CD325D6A185B@m-r-d.de> Thanks for this post. I was already thinking it is just me who struggles with LCB. I tried a bit, gave up and decided to wait for the announced course. Matthias Matthias Rebbe +49 5741 310000 ?matthiasrebbe.eu ? > Am 16.05.2017 um 22:48 schrieb Mark Wieder via use-livecode >: > > Having spent a bit of the day experimenting with LCB, I have this to say: > > the documentation is atrocious > > ...also, the only thing I have to say about error reporting in the Extension Builder is that it lets you know there's an error. There's a caret displayed under the error line that misleadingly appears to point to the problem, when actually it's just pointing to the middle of the line. And "Syntax error" isn't a very rewarding message. > > It took me three hours today to figure out how to convert a hex number into decimal format. > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From revdev at pdslabs.net Tue May 16 18:22:49 2017 From: revdev at pdslabs.net (Phil Davis) Date: Tue, 16 May 2017 15:22:49 -0700 Subject: Android Touchscreen Malfunction In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5592e0a5-664a-1e2a-e5f6-85ea57176cc4@pdslabs.net> I assume flushEvents() isn't available for mobile? At least the 8.1.3 dictionary shows it is for desktop only. So would something like this work? local sTaskStatus, sTaskRequests on mouseUp send "doTask" to me in 0 seconds put the result & CR after sTaskRequests end mouseUp command doTask if sTaskStatus is empty then put "busy" into sTaskStatus else exit doTask -- do your task here repeat for each line tRequestID in sTaskRequests cancel tRequestID end repeat put empty into sTaskStatus put empty into sTaskRequests end doTask Phil Davis On 5/16/17 11:55 AM, Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode wrote: > Hi All, > > Recently, while testing a stack in an Android Phone, > I found with surprise that mouseup and mousedown > messages were triggered very fast (2 or 3 times in > succession). > > After checking the phone screen, I noticed a small > (almost unnoticeable) crack in the corner. > > How could we change our mouseup and mousedown > scripts for Android Apps to make a workaround > for these kind of malfunctions? > > Thanks in advance! > > Al > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Phil Davis From ahsoftware at sonic.net Tue May 16 18:59:09 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Tue, 16 May 2017 15:59:09 -0700 Subject: Writing Extensions In-Reply-To: References: <64acd5c7-95b7-8a31-8868-62b0458e942e@sonic.net> Message-ID: On 05/16/2017 02:47 PM, Stephen Barncard via use-livecode wrote: > On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 1:48 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> It took me three hours today to figure out how to convert a hex number >> into decimal format. > > > Why? Because the IP is IPV6 ? Large hex number that overflows? Nope. Because the way I would do this in LCS doesn't exist in LCB. The LCB syntax is actually more intuitive, but getting to that point took all morning. Having to read between the lines in the dictionary and make guesses (educated and non) about the keywords and syntax. I wasn't dealing with IP addresses, just converting #NNNNNN colors to (DDD,DDD,DDD) format, two hex digits at a time. Along the way I discovered interesting things like the fact that 'comma' isn't a defined constant in LCB. And that there's no concept of word chunks in LCB. And there's afaict no messagebox-style way to interactively try out the possible syntax forms - you just have to write the code, try to compile it, and then try to figure out why there's a syntax error. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From hh at hyperhh.de Tue May 16 19:02:34 2017 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 01:02:34 +0200 Subject: Writing Extensions Message-ID: >> Alejandro T. wrote: >> How fast is LCB working with imagedata? Slower than slowest LC Script ever seen. I Stopped all my experiments with imagedata after one full day (was 12 hours). For a first own test simply take an image of screensize and walk through the pixeldata for each byte applying only the identity mapping ... We have to wait until the java FFI is comfortable enough to use a java image library. (I couldn't get to there). Would be great, if not too difficult to realise, to have a "do as javascript" here (which uses the js engine only of the browser widget). This is at least ten times faster with imagedata than fastest LC Script. See several recent examples in "Sample stacks" (and some more links in the Raspi-Subforum to extern servers). >> Alejandro T. wrote: >> How fast is LCB working with transform matrices? Pretty fast and comfortable for transforming all 'small' canvas data (pathes, text, pattern, image-as-a-whole). I liked that after taking the first hurdles. You may test yourself with snippets or lcb files from the LCB-subforum. There is a lot of stuff for starting there. Or use the examples on github by Trevor DeVore or the ones by the LC-stuff, variants by BerndN. But I wait for my next examples until there is a stable widget format (we have meanwhile three formats that work on some LC versions only, not on the others). To adjust these costs too much time, simply recompiling worked here only in 1 of 20 cases. From ahsoftware at sonic.net Tue May 16 19:37:27 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Tue, 16 May 2017 16:37:27 -0700 Subject: SVG widget? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <326bab01-4fe8-1649-3d11-cc237c640fc4@sonic.net> On 05/13/2017 01:46 PM, Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode wrote: > Peter Thirkell wrote a widget that import SVG with multiple colors. > > Download this widget source code from this forum post: > http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=93&t=27811&p=147279#p147286 I added my updates to that forum post, building on Peter's fine work. Allows for my flexibility for svg files from other formats. The lack of xml and word chunk processing in LCB is a severe handicap. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From jonathandlynch at gmail.com Tue May 16 20:02:22 2017 From: jonathandlynch at gmail.com (jonathandlynch at gmail.com) Date: Tue, 16 May 2017 19:02:22 -0500 Subject: Incorporating ImageMagick into an LC program? Message-ID: I once made an app that used command line calls to ImageMagick. That worked fine, but with a slight delay. Would it be difficult to create an lcb script that directly interfaces with ImageMagick? As long as you give them credit, their license would allow it. https://www.imagemagick.org/script/license.php Sent from my iPhone From james at thehales.id.au Tue May 16 20:59:33 2017 From: james at thehales.id.au (James Hale) Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 10:59:33 +1000 Subject: Writing Extensions Message-ID: <32E4F40E-2331-4887-846F-721FDA78663C@thehales.id.au> This is why the LiveCode Infinity project had such attraction to me. There were to be fully documented examples. Oh well. From hh at hyperhh.de Tue May 16 21:14:31 2017 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 03:14:31 +0200 Subject: Incorporating ImageMagick into an LC program? Message-ID: <322A99FC-89E0-45D9-A881-B2FA3FBCE6D4@hyperhh.de> Dictionary: open process There is also a MagickWand C-API ( https://www.imagemagick.org/script/magick-wand.php ). But who should do that incorporation into the engine? From jonathandlynch at gmail.com Tue May 16 21:22:04 2017 From: jonathandlynch at gmail.com (jonathandlynch at gmail.com) Date: Tue, 16 May 2017 20:22:04 -0500 Subject: Incorporating ImageMagick into an LC program? In-Reply-To: <322A99FC-89E0-45D9-A881-B2FA3FBCE6D4@hyperhh.de> References: <322A99FC-89E0-45D9-A881-B2FA3FBCE6D4@hyperhh.de> Message-ID: <7A036DD0-A6AD-4FE0-A3C3-A7B50038CF88@gmail.com> I don't know. I was just wondering about interfacing through an LCB library or widget. That way, the LC folks would not have to be involved. If you don't mind a 2 second delay, the command line option works fine, but I think it should be faster. I have all the tools I need now, to get Augmented Earth to market, so I am not too worried about. Still, it would be cool. Sent from my iPhone > On May 16, 2017, at 8:14 PM, hh via use-livecode wrote: > > Dictionary: open process > > There is also a MagickWand C-API > ( https://www.imagemagick.org/script/magick-wand.php ). > But who should do that incorporation into the engine? > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From waprothero at gmail.com Tue May 16 22:37:53 2017 From: waprothero at gmail.com (William Prothero) Date: Tue, 16 May 2017 19:37:53 -0700 Subject: Writing Extensions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Herman: Your doAsJavascript suggestion is very cool. I might use it and might learn some javascript in order to use it. Great idea! Bill > On May 16, 2017, at 4:02 PM, hh via use-livecode wrote: > >>> Alejandro T. wrote: >>> How fast is LCB working with imagedata? > > Slower than slowest LC Script ever seen. I Stopped > all my experiments with imagedata after one full day > (was 12 hours). > For a first own test simply take an image of screensize > and walk through the pixeldata for each byte applying > only the identity mapping ... > We have to wait until the java FFI is comfortable enough > to use a java image library. (I couldn't get to there). > > Would be great, if not too difficult to realise, to have > a "do as javascript" here (which uses the js engine only > of the browser widget). This is at least ten times faster > with imagedata than fastest LC Script. See several recent > examples in "Sample stacks" (and some more links in the > Raspi-Subforum to extern servers). > >>> Alejandro T. wrote: >>> How fast is LCB working with transform matrices? > > Pretty fast and comfortable for transforming all 'small' > canvas data (pathes, text, pattern, image-as-a-whole). > I liked that after taking the first hurdles. > > You may test yourself with snippets or lcb files from the > LCB-subforum. There is a lot of stuff for starting there. > Or use the examples on github by Trevor DeVore or the ones > by the LC-stuff, variants by BerndN. > > But I wait for my next examples until there is a stable > widget format (we have meanwhile three formats that work on > some LC versions only, not on the others). > To adjust these costs too much time, simply recompiling > worked here only in 1 of 20 cases. > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ali.lloyd at livecode.com Wed May 17 03:09:59 2017 From: ali.lloyd at livecode.com (Ali Lloyd) Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 07:09:59 +0000 Subject: Writing Extensions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Mark, it would be lovely if you could be more specific. What parts of the docs in particular could be improved and how? What specific sticking points did you have? Could you file a bug report about the extension builder? It may be that something about error reporting has changed that hasn't been updated in the extension builder. On Wed, 17 May 2017 at 03:37, William Prothero via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Herman: > Your doAsJavascript suggestion is very cool. I might use it and might > learn some javascript in order to use it. > > Great idea! > Bill > > > On May 16, 2017, at 4:02 PM, hh via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > >>> Alejandro T. wrote: > >>> How fast is LCB working with imagedata? > > > > Slower than slowest LC Script ever seen. I Stopped > > all my experiments with imagedata after one full day > > (was 12 hours). > > For a first own test simply take an image of screensize > > and walk through the pixeldata for each byte applying > > only the identity mapping ... > > We have to wait until the java FFI is comfortable enough > > to use a java image library. (I couldn't get to there). > > > > Would be great, if not too difficult to realise, to have > > a "do as javascript" here (which uses the js engine only > > of the browser widget). This is at least ten times faster > > with imagedata than fastest LC Script. See several recent > > examples in "Sample stacks" (and some more links in the > > Raspi-Subforum to extern servers). > > > >>> Alejandro T. wrote: > >>> How fast is LCB working with transform matrices? > > > > Pretty fast and comfortable for transforming all 'small' > > canvas data (pathes, text, pattern, image-as-a-whole). > > I liked that after taking the first hurdles. > > > > You may test yourself with snippets or lcb files from the > > LCB-subforum. There is a lot of stuff for starting there. > > Or use the examples on github by Trevor DeVore or the ones > > by the LC-stuff, variants by BerndN. > > > > But I wait for my next examples until there is a stable > > widget format (we have meanwhile three formats that work on > > some LC versions only, not on the others). > > To adjust these costs too much time, simply recompiling > > worked here only in 1 of 20 cases. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From mark at livecode.com Wed May 17 03:19:47 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 09:19:47 +0200 Subject: Writing Extensions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3a3eea5156889d9120f173e4b7332ac3@livecode.com> On 2017-05-17 09:09, Ali Lloyd via use-livecode wrote: > Mark, it would be lovely if you could be more specific. What parts of > the > docs in particular could be improved and how? What specific sticking > points > did you have? > > Could you file a bug report about the extension builder? It may be that > something about error reporting has changed that hasn't been updated in > the > extension builder. Yes - LCB errors now emit with a marker and code line as to where the error is... However, this requires a monospaced font to look right (it works really well from the terminal, for example) - so just making the log in field in the extension builder use such a font should fix that issue (if I understand Mark's issue correctly). Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From ahsoftware at sonic.net Wed May 17 12:05:13 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 09:05:13 -0700 Subject: Writing Extensions In-Reply-To: <3a3eea5156889d9120f173e4b7332ac3@livecode.com> References: <3a3eea5156889d9120f173e4b7332ac3@livecode.com> Message-ID: <7afe585a-5e9c-5496-53b6-0b8e60c02404@sonic.net> On 05/17/2017 12:19 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: > Yes - LCB errors now emit with a marker and code line as to where the error > is... However, this requires a monospaced font to look right (it works > really well from the terminal, for example) - so just making the log in > field in the extension builder use such a font should fix that issue (if > I understand Mark's issue correctly). > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > Ha! Yes, It sounds like that should take care of that issue. I kept thinking the pointer was showing me where the error occurred (the line number was correct), but I kept changing the parameter it was pointing to and still got the same syntax error. I finally narrowed down what was going on with that line, and it had nothing to do with what was being pointed out to me. I'll file a bug report on this. However, "Syntax error" as the sole error message doesn't really help much in telling me what I might have done wrong, especially given the lack of a messagebox or irb style playground to experiment with things. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From mark at livecode.com Wed May 17 12:09:28 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 18:09:28 +0200 Subject: Writing Extensions In-Reply-To: <7afe585a-5e9c-5496-53b6-0b8e60c02404@sonic.net> References: <3a3eea5156889d9120f173e4b7332ac3@livecode.com> <7afe585a-5e9c-5496-53b6-0b8e60c02404@sonic.net> Message-ID: On 2017-05-17 18:05, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > Ha! Yes, It sounds like that should take care of that issue. I kept > thinking the pointer was showing me where the error occurred (the line > number was correct), but I kept changing the parameter it was pointing > to and still got the same syntax error. I finally narrowed down what > was going on with that line, and it had nothing to do with what was > being pointed out to me. I'll file a bug report on this. > > However, "Syntax error" as the sole error message doesn't really help > much in telling me what I might have done wrong, especially given the > lack of a messagebox or irb style playground to experiment with > things. Yes - the syntax error message is about as good as we can make it at the moment by virtue of the fact we use bison (in GLR mode) to generate the parser (the spec of which is generated from the syntax specifications in the LCB source files which are compiled in lc-compile) :( LCB is more of a 'traditional' language - so compilation is completely divorced from execution - hence no REPL loop. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From ahsoftware at sonic.net Wed May 17 15:27:04 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 12:27:04 -0700 Subject: Writing Extensions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 05/17/2017 12:09 AM, Ali Lloyd via use-livecode wrote: > Mark, it would be lovely if you could be more specific. What parts of the > docs in particular could be improved and how? What specific sticking points > did you have? Oh, where to start? Here are some thoughts off the top of my head: Well, I'd love to have more parity between LCS and LCB as far as keywords and syntax, but I guess that's outside the scope of the documentation per se. But finding that constants like comma and quote aren't defined in LCB was a shock. Indeed, even defining a constant doesn't seem possible. Or at least it's not documented. Searching for "constant" gives nothing, even though "PiConstant" is in the dictionary. I have no idea what the dictionary for ScriptObject is telling me. It has a link to MyScriptObject which has no useful information other than referring me back to ScripObject. The description "Use the resolve script object, or my script object to obtain an object of type ScriptObject" is self-referential at best. The Summary is better "an opaque type..." yep - it's opaque all right. The dictionary entries for LCB commands are arcane CamelCase words seemingly drawn from thin air. CanvasOperationDrawImage, for example, has the syntax of "draw [ from mSrcRect of ] mImage into mDestRect of mCanvas". The syntax statement is understandable, but the entry should be "draw", not "CanvasOperationDrawImage". Similarly, searching for "format" brings up "BooleanFormattedAsString", "FormatBooleanAsString", "FormatNumberAsString", and "NumberFormattedAsString". These refer to either the "format" command or the "formatted as string" modifier. The description field "Use NumberFormattedAsString when you want to manipulate a numeric value as text" doesn't reference the proper syntax for the modifier per the example. And nothing in the "format" commands that came up in the search helped me figure out how to format a hex number as decimal, which is what I was looking for based on LCS expectations. There's no "see also" section which might have pointed me to the "convert" commands. The description of Operand as "An expression that evaluates to a number" isn't specific enough to help... is "FE" a number even though it's a hex number? Is "0xFE" a number"? Does a number have to be an integer (digging into StringPasedAsNumber would indicate no, but why is it necessary to do the digging)? Is 0123.50 a number? What's it's string value? Does it have the leading zero? The trailing zero? Can I control the output format? Once I finally tried searching for convert (mind you, I don't want to *convert* the number, just display it differently) I was faced with a similar situation: "BaseConvert" (the syntax of which is actually "Operand converted from base Source to base Target"), "BaseConvertFrom" (with a syntax of "Operand converted from base Source", "BaseConvertTo" (syntax of "operand converted to base Target", and a reference to the com.livecode.typeconvert library. So looking at BaseConvert, the Operand is specified as "An expression that evaluates to a string." Fair enough - I give it a hex number and I expect a decimal number out the back end. What's the format for a hex number? Is it "0xHH"? Just "HH"? Something else? Can I specify a leading zero? Number of expected decimal digits (what if I need three digits even if one or two are leading zeros?) These are easy in LCS, not so much in LCB. Is it even possible to set the various delimiters? The documentation only talks about retrieving them. The description talks about the calling (script) handler's Delimiter property... is this an actual property of the object or is just a shorthand way of talking about "the Delimiter"? I clicked on "type" in the Filters section. What does that do? All it seems to do is narrow my choices down to ScriptObject (see above). The pointer type isn't documented. Why is the "point" operator documented as "PointMake"? Is this just to differentiate between the "point" creator keyword and the "point" object keyword? Some major strengths of LCS are missing in LCB, or at least don't appear to be in the documentation. Chunks, for instance. It's possible to get character chunks (and the [first|last] modifier in the offset functions are *very* nice), but there's no conception of words. This results in some ugly, convoluted, and error-prone coding to deal with things that are not only easy in LCS, but IMNSHO one of the things that makes LiveCode such a productive environment. I'm hoping this is just a documentation failure and not a missing feature. The StringToJString and StringFromJString examples handler use the "foreign handler" construct, but "foreign" isn't in the dictionary. Nor is the "binds to" syntax. Nor the JObject or JString objects. Nor the "unsafe" keyword. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed May 17 15:34:29 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 22:34:29 +0300 Subject: Writing Extensions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Why do I feel that the reason for all this "wierdness" is because LCB has been written from C++ programmers from the ground up, while LiveCode still (well, just about) hangs onto to its HyperCard heritage. LiveCode, at its best, preserves the clarity that was the best thing about HyperCard (certainly mind-blowingly refreshing after my baptism with FORTRAN and PASCAL); LCB, not doing that, is as opaque as its heritage. It has been suggested before that the LiveCode team have, maybe unwittingly, started moving away from the HyperCard-like simplicity that was what made LiveCode so obviously the best successor to HyperCard; with LCB they don't even have to pay lip service to that . . . I am extremely grateful to you, Mark, that you were the one who took the first critical plunge . . . Richmond. On 5/17/17 10:27 pm, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > On 05/17/2017 12:09 AM, Ali Lloyd via use-livecode wrote: >> Mark, it would be lovely if you could be more specific. What parts of >> the >> docs in particular could be improved and how? What specific sticking >> points >> did you have? > > Oh, where to start? Here are some thoughts off the top of my head: > > Well, I'd love to have more parity between LCS and LCB as far as > keywords and syntax, but I guess that's outside the scope of the > documentation per se. But finding that constants like comma and quote > aren't defined in LCB was a shock. Indeed, even defining a constant > doesn't seem possible. Or at least it's not documented. Searching for > "constant" gives nothing, even though "PiConstant" is in the dictionary. > > I have no idea what the dictionary for ScriptObject is telling me. It > has a link to MyScriptObject which has no useful information other > than referring me back to ScripObject. The description "Use the > resolve script object, or my script object to obtain an object of type > ScriptObject" is self-referential at best. The Summary is better "an > opaque type..." yep - it's opaque all right. > > The dictionary entries for LCB commands are arcane CamelCase words > seemingly drawn from thin air. CanvasOperationDrawImage, for example, > has the syntax of "draw [ from mSrcRect of ] mImage into mDestRect of > mCanvas". The syntax statement is understandable, but the entry should > be "draw", not "CanvasOperationDrawImage". > > Similarly, searching for "format" brings up > "BooleanFormattedAsString", "FormatBooleanAsString", > "FormatNumberAsString", and "NumberFormattedAsString". These refer to > either the "format" command or the "formatted as string" modifier. The > description field "Use NumberFormattedAsString when you want to > manipulate a numeric value as text" doesn't reference the proper > syntax for the modifier per the example. > > And nothing in the "format" commands that came up in the search helped > me figure out how to format a hex number as decimal, which is what I > was looking for based on LCS expectations. There's no "see also" > section which might have pointed me to the "convert" commands. The > description of Operand as "An expression that evaluates to a number" > isn't specific enough to help... is "FE" a number even though it's a > hex number? Is "0xFE" a number"? Does a number have to be an integer > (digging into StringPasedAsNumber would indicate no, but why is it > necessary to do the digging)? Is 0123.50 a number? What's it's string > value? Does it have the leading zero? The trailing zero? Can I control > the output format? > > Once I finally tried searching for convert (mind you, I don't want to > *convert* the number, just display it differently) I was faced with a > similar situation: "BaseConvert" (the syntax of which is actually > "Operand converted from base Source to base Target"), > "BaseConvertFrom" (with a syntax of "Operand converted from base > Source", "BaseConvertTo" (syntax of "operand converted to base > Target", and a reference to the com.livecode.typeconvert library. > > So looking at BaseConvert, the Operand is specified as "An expression > that evaluates to a string." Fair enough - I give it a hex number and > I expect a decimal number out the back end. What's the format for a > hex number? Is it "0xHH"? Just "HH"? Something else? Can I specify a > leading zero? Number of expected decimal digits (what if I need three > digits even if one or two are leading zeros?) These are easy in LCS, > not so much in LCB. > > Is it even possible to set the various delimiters? The documentation > only talks about retrieving them. The description talks about the > calling (script) handler's Delimiter property... is this an > actual property of the object or is just a shorthand way of talking > about "the Delimiter"? > > I clicked on "type" in the Filters section. What does that do? All it > seems to do is narrow my choices down to ScriptObject (see above). > > The pointer type isn't documented. > > Why is the "point" operator documented as "PointMake"? Is this just to > differentiate between the "point" creator keyword and the "point" > object keyword? > > Some major strengths of LCS are missing in LCB, or at least don't > appear to be in the documentation. Chunks, for instance. It's possible > to get character chunks (and the [first|last] modifier in the offset > functions are *very* nice), but there's no conception of words. This > results in some ugly, convoluted, and error-prone coding to deal with > things that are not only easy in LCS, but IMNSHO one of the things > that makes LiveCode such a productive environment. I'm hoping this is > just a documentation failure and not a missing feature. > > The StringToJString and StringFromJString examples handler use the > "foreign handler" construct, but "foreign" isn't in the dictionary. > Nor is the "binds to" syntax. Nor the JObject or JString objects. Nor > the "unsafe" keyword. > From mark at livecode.com Wed May 17 15:59:07 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 21:59:07 +0200 Subject: Writing Extensions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2781a3812a983f52562d3e094f82a64e@livecode.com> On 2017-05-17 21:34, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: > Why do I feel that the reason for all this "wierdness" is because LCB > has been written from C++ programmers from the ground up, > while LiveCode still (well, just about) hangs onto to its HyperCard > heritage. > > LiveCode, at its best, preserves the clarity that was the best thing > about HyperCard (certainly mind-blowingly refreshing > after my baptism with FORTRAN and PASCAL); LCB, not doing that, is as > opaque as its heritage. > > It has been suggested before that the LiveCode team have, maybe > unwittingly, started moving away from the > HyperCard-like simplicity that was what made LiveCode so obviously the > best successor to HyperCard; with LCB they > don't even have to pay lip service to that . . . I think this perhaps displays a misunderstanding what LCB is for - it isn't a replacement for LiveCode Script; it is intended to be a stepping stone between C++ and LiveCode Script which means it can be used to extend the engine in way which LiveCode Script cannot. i.e. Allowing functionality to be added to LiveCode *without* having to deal with C++ and, instead, deal with something slightly more familiar (also there is a lot of boiler-plate required in writing engine functionality in C++, which LCB eliminates by raising the abstraction level of values). Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From ali.lloyd at livecode.com Wed May 17 16:10:08 2017 From: ali.lloyd at livecode.com (Ali Lloyd) Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 20:10:08 +0000 Subject: Writing Extensions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: LCB as a language is marginally (if at all) more complex than LiveCode. In fact many lines of code are indistinguishable between the two. The difficulty Mark was having is more related to the fact that LCB is not 'live' like LiveCode Script, and that we certainly haven't quite cracked the documentation or the integration with the IDE yet. On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 8:34 PM Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Why do I feel that the reason for all this "wierdness" is because LCB > has been written from C++ programmers from the ground up, > while LiveCode still (well, just about) hangs onto to its HyperCard > heritage. > > LiveCode, at its best, preserves the clarity that was the best thing > about HyperCard (certainly mind-blowingly refreshing > after my baptism with FORTRAN and PASCAL); LCB, not doing that, is as > opaque as its heritage. > > It has been suggested before that the LiveCode team have, maybe > unwittingly, started moving away from the > HyperCard-like simplicity that was what made LiveCode so obviously the > best successor to HyperCard; with LCB they > don't even have to pay lip service to that . . . > > I am extremely grateful to you, Mark, that you were the one who took the > first critical plunge . . . > > Richmond. > > On 5/17/17 10:27 pm, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > > On 05/17/2017 12:09 AM, Ali Lloyd via use-livecode wrote: > >> Mark, it would be lovely if you could be more specific. What parts of > >> the > >> docs in particular could be improved and how? What specific sticking > >> points > >> did you have? > > > > Oh, where to start? Here are some thoughts off the top of my head: > > > > Well, I'd love to have more parity between LCS and LCB as far as > > keywords and syntax, but I guess that's outside the scope of the > > documentation per se. But finding that constants like comma and quote > > aren't defined in LCB was a shock. Indeed, even defining a constant > > doesn't seem possible. Or at least it's not documented. Searching for > > "constant" gives nothing, even though "PiConstant" is in the dictionary. > > > > I have no idea what the dictionary for ScriptObject is telling me. It > > has a link to MyScriptObject which has no useful information other > > than referring me back to ScripObject. The description "Use the > > resolve script object, or my script object to obtain an object of type > > ScriptObject" is self-referential at best. The Summary is better "an > > opaque type..." yep - it's opaque all right. > > > > The dictionary entries for LCB commands are arcane CamelCase words > > seemingly drawn from thin air. CanvasOperationDrawImage, for example, > > has the syntax of "draw [ from mSrcRect of ] mImage into mDestRect of > > mCanvas". The syntax statement is understandable, but the entry should > > be "draw", not "CanvasOperationDrawImage". > > > > Similarly, searching for "format" brings up > > "BooleanFormattedAsString", "FormatBooleanAsString", > > "FormatNumberAsString", and "NumberFormattedAsString". These refer to > > either the "format" command or the "formatted as string" modifier. The > > description field "Use NumberFormattedAsString when you want to > > manipulate a numeric value as text" doesn't reference the proper > > syntax for the modifier per the example. > > > > And nothing in the "format" commands that came up in the search helped > > me figure out how to format a hex number as decimal, which is what I > > was looking for based on LCS expectations. There's no "see also" > > section which might have pointed me to the "convert" commands. The > > description of Operand as "An expression that evaluates to a number" > > isn't specific enough to help... is "FE" a number even though it's a > > hex number? Is "0xFE" a number"? Does a number have to be an integer > > (digging into StringPasedAsNumber would indicate no, but why is it > > necessary to do the digging)? Is 0123.50 a number? What's it's string > > value? Does it have the leading zero? The trailing zero? Can I control > > the output format? > > > > Once I finally tried searching for convert (mind you, I don't want to > > *convert* the number, just display it differently) I was faced with a > > similar situation: "BaseConvert" (the syntax of which is actually > > "Operand converted from base Source to base Target"), > > "BaseConvertFrom" (with a syntax of "Operand converted from base > > Source", "BaseConvertTo" (syntax of "operand converted to base > > Target", and a reference to the com.livecode.typeconvert library. > > > > So looking at BaseConvert, the Operand is specified as "An expression > > that evaluates to a string." Fair enough - I give it a hex number and > > I expect a decimal number out the back end. What's the format for a > > hex number? Is it "0xHH"? Just "HH"? Something else? Can I specify a > > leading zero? Number of expected decimal digits (what if I need three > > digits even if one or two are leading zeros?) These are easy in LCS, > > not so much in LCB. > > > > Is it even possible to set the various delimiters? The documentation > > only talks about retrieving them. The description talks about the > > calling (script) handler's Delimiter property... is this an > > actual property of the object or is just a shorthand way of talking > > about "the Delimiter"? > > > > I clicked on "type" in the Filters section. What does that do? All it > > seems to do is narrow my choices down to ScriptObject (see above). > > > > The pointer type isn't documented. > > > > Why is the "point" operator documented as "PointMake"? Is this just to > > differentiate between the "point" creator keyword and the "point" > > object keyword? > > > > Some major strengths of LCS are missing in LCB, or at least don't > > appear to be in the documentation. Chunks, for instance. It's possible > > to get character chunks (and the [first|last] modifier in the offset > > functions are *very* nice), but there's no conception of words. This > > results in some ugly, convoluted, and error-prone coding to deal with > > things that are not only easy in LCS, but IMNSHO one of the things > > that makes LiveCode such a productive environment. I'm hoping this is > > just a documentation failure and not a missing feature. > > > > The StringToJString and StringFromJString examples handler use the > > "foreign handler" construct, but "foreign" isn't in the dictionary. > > Nor is the "binds to" syntax. Nor the JObject or JString objects. Nor > > the "unsafe" keyword. > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From waprothero at gmail.com Wed May 17 16:41:06 2017 From: waprothero at gmail.com (William Prothero) Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 13:41:06 -0700 Subject: English Like? Message-ID: <87287AF1-9463-42DB-B866-3277490A100F@gmail.com> Folks: It can be difficult for long term users of an application to appreciate the ?exceptions? to the philosophy of a dev app. I think the livecode community is affected by ?familiarity? over clarity sometimes. For years (when Director was a viable dev platform), I had a negative feeling about Hypercard type syntax. I had done some pretty extensive programming in Hypercard and Supercard too. I liked the way Director worked. I liked that it did not insult my intelligence by requiring ?put 3 into x? instead of the universal "x=3? syntax that all algebra students lewarn in gradeschool, When Director died, I looked around, held my nose, and jumped to livecode, and now I?m glad I jumped that initial negative barrier. But, I take exception to the many claims that livecode is ?english-like? (in spite of the many ?english-like? commands), especially if you want to do the advanced work that most of the users do. For example, suppose I want to do the very basic task of coding a conditional that test for the name of a card. What I would intuitively expect is: put the name of this cd into cdName What I get for cdName is: Suppose the name of the cd is theName card ?theName? Ok, now I only want the name, so I do if word 2 of the name of this cd is ?theName? then ?do my stuff end if Nooooo, I don?t get that. First, I need to do: put word 2 of cdName into cdName replace quote with ?? in cdName if word 2 of the name of this cd is ?theName? then ?do my stuff, this works end if I don?t call this intuitive. I just spent more time than I should have sorting this out. So, how should a company supporting a platform deal with this? Macromedia chose a really nice strategy when they added dot syntax, which its users wanted. What they did was implement a flag named ?useLegacyCode? (or something like that). This way the legacy users could just set that flag and couldn?t complain about their apps breaking, and the new apps could be built on a more refined code base. This could be a strategy for the LiveCode mothership to implement when it becomes desirable to implement new, improved, and different code syntax that may conflict with legacy syntax. There are other non-intuitive oddities like the example I gave above. If livecode wants to embody ?english-like? syntax, there could be numerous improvements to help the newby. Conversely, perhaps another language entirely might compile to the same tokens as the current version, but that?s a job for another huge effort. Just sayin'?.. Regards, Bill P, William A. Prothero http://earthlearningsolution.org/ From msiskin at andrew.cmu.edu Wed May 17 17:00:15 2017 From: msiskin at andrew.cmu.edu (Marc Siskin) Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 21:00:15 +0000 Subject: English Like? In-Reply-To: <87287AF1-9463-42DB-B866-3277490A100F@gmail.com> References: <87287AF1-9463-42DB-B866-3277490A100F@gmail.com> Message-ID: Bill, The solution to your issue is to use the short name version of name. Marc On May 17, 2017, at 1:41 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode > wrote: Folks: It can be difficult for long term users of an application to appreciate the ?exceptions? to the philosophy of a dev app. I think the livecode community is affected by ?familiarity? over clarity sometimes. For years (when Director was a viable dev platform), I had a negative feeling about Hypercard type syntax. I had done some pretty extensive programming in Hypercard and Supercard too. I liked the way Director worked. I liked that it did not insult my intelligence by requiring ?put 3 into x? instead of the universal "x=3? syntax that all algebra students lewarn in gradeschool, When Director died, I looked around, held my nose, and jumped to livecode, and now I?m glad I jumped that initial negative barrier. But, I take exception to the many claims that livecode is ?english-like? (in spite of the many ?english-like? commands), especially if you want to do the advanced work that most of the users do. For example, suppose I want to do the very basic task of coding a conditional that test for the name of a card. What I would intuitively expect is: put the name of this cd into cdName What I get for cdName is: Suppose the name of the cd is theName card ?theName? Ok, now I only want the name, so I do if word 2 of the name of this cd is ?theName? then ?do my stuff end if Nooooo, I don?t get that. First, I need to do: put word 2 of cdName into cdName replace quote with ?? in cdName if word 2 of the name of this cd is ?theName? then ?do my stuff, this works end if I don?t call this intuitive. I just spent more time than I should have sorting this out. So, how should a company supporting a platform deal with this? Macromedia chose a really nice strategy when they added dot syntax, which its users wanted. What they did was implement a flag named ?useLegacyCode? (or something like that). This way the legacy users could just set that flag and couldn?t complain about their apps breaking, and the new apps could be built on a more refined code base. This could be a strategy for the LiveCode mothership to implement when it becomes desirable to implement new, improved, and different code syntax that may conflict with legacy syntax. There are other non-intuitive oddities like the example I gave above. If livecode wants to embody ?english-like? syntax, there could be numerous improvements to help the newby. Conversely, perhaps another language entirely might compile to the same tokens as the current version, but that?s a job for another huge effort. Just sayin'?.. Regards, Bill P, William A. Prothero http://earthlearningsolution.org/ _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode --------------- Marc Siskin Manager, Modern Language Resource Center Carnegie Mellon University msiskin at andrew.cmu.edu From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed May 17 17:29:49 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 14:29:49 -0700 Subject: English Like? In-Reply-To: <87287AF1-9463-42DB-B866-3277490A100F@gmail.com> References: <87287AF1-9463-42DB-B866-3277490A100F@gmail.com> Message-ID: William Prothero wrote: > When Director died, I looked around, held my nose, and jumped to > livecode, and now I?m glad I jumped that initial negative barrier. > But, I take exception to the many claims that livecode is > ?english-like? (in spite of the many ?english-like? commands), > especially if you want to do the advanced work that most of the users > do. The team seems to share the same feeling; you'll find most references to "English-like" are historical. LiveCode is readable, almost to the point of being self-documenting, and generally quite learnable, But no language designed for communicating with a machine benefits much from from attempting to follow Chomsky rules for natural/accidental languages we use when communicating with humans; very different cognitive abilities in the listener, very different usage goals, leading to very different design patterns. Your specific question is an interesting one in terms of syntax consistency: > For example, suppose I want to do the very basic task of coding a > conditional that test for the name of a card. What I would intuitively > expect is: > > put the name of this cd into cdName > > What I get for cdName is: Suppose the name of the cd is theName > card ?theName? > > Ok, now I only want the name, so I do > > if word 2 of the name of this cd is ?theName? then > ?do my stuff > end if > > Nooooo, I don?t get that. First, I need to do: > > put word 2 of cdName into cdName > replace quote with ?? in cdName > if word 2 of the name of this cd is ?theName? then > ?do my stuff, this works > end if > > I don?t call this intuitive. I just spent more time than I should > have sorting this out. I'm afraid you'll have to blame the authors of the mother tongue, HyperTalk, on that one. Your expectations a perfectly reasonable: with most properties we ask for a value and we get that value, without also getting some other metadata like object type. Imagine if: put the rect of button 1 ...returned: rectangle "20,20,120,44" That would be annoying as hell. And yet with object names that's pretty much what happens, where we have to add more (an extra keyword) to get less: put the name of button 1 ...yields: button "Bob" But: put the short name of button 1 ...yields: Bob Fortunately most properties work as expected, and the anomalous behavior of the name property (and only a few others) are easily learned and quite useful. But posts like yours are VERY helpful for those of us who teach newcomers. When we've learned these things too long ago it's easy to forget they were ever unintuitive at first, which may miss opportunities for more effective on-boarding. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From sundown at pacifier.com Wed May 17 17:30:11 2017 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 14:30:11 -0700 Subject: Writing Extensions In-Reply-To: <2781a3812a983f52562d3e094f82a64e@livecode.com> References: <2781a3812a983f52562d3e094f82a64e@livecode.com> Message-ID: <8A53907F-8AC3-4A47-9DD1-EA205FB0EBE8@pacifier.com> It looks to me like a the easier stepping stone to fill the gap is just write the code in C/C++, compile it and call it using a shell coimmand. I have been doing it in C and it works really good. I am amazed at how easy it is. If you can get the C code I posted to print out the argument you will have the knowledge to use tons of c code examples with only a few changes and many as they are. JB > On May 17, 2017, at 12:59 PM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: > > On 2017-05-17 21:34, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: >> Why do I feel that the reason for all this "wierdness" is because LCB >> has been written from C++ programmers from the ground up, >> while LiveCode still (well, just about) hangs onto to its HyperCard heritage. >> LiveCode, at its best, preserves the clarity that was the best thing >> about HyperCard (certainly mind-blowingly refreshing >> after my baptism with FORTRAN and PASCAL); LCB, not doing that, is as >> opaque as its heritage. >> It has been suggested before that the LiveCode team have, maybe >> unwittingly, started moving away from the >> HyperCard-like simplicity that was what made LiveCode so obviously the >> best successor to HyperCard; with LCB they >> don't even have to pay lip service to that . . . > > I think this perhaps displays a misunderstanding what LCB is for - it isn't a replacement for LiveCode Script; it is intended to be a stepping stone between C++ and LiveCode Script which means it can be used to extend the engine in way which LiveCode Script cannot. i.e. Allowing functionality to be added to LiveCode *without* having to deal with C++ and, instead, deal with something slightly more familiar (also there is a lot of boiler-plate required in writing engine functionality in C++, which LCB eliminates by raising the abstraction level of values). > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > > -- > Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ > LiveCode: Everyone can create apps > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From ahsoftware at sonic.net Wed May 17 17:43:17 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 14:43:17 -0700 Subject: Writing Extensions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 05/17/2017 01:10 PM, Ali Lloyd via use-livecode wrote: > LCB as a language is marginally (if at all) more complex than LiveCode. In > fact many lines of code are indistinguishable between the two. Yes. In fact it's the areas where they differ that make for a difficult learning curve. There are features in LCB that I wish were backported to LCS. I appreciate the team's reticence to make syntax changes to the core xtalk language, but even as a long-time C programmer, put tHexNumber converted from base 16 into tDecimalNumber seems so much more readable than put format("%02x", tHexNumber) into tDecimalNumber > The difficulty Mark was having is more related to the fact that LCB is not > 'live' like LiveCode Script, and that we certainly haven't quite cracked > the documentation or the integration with the IDE yet. Yes on all counts. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From ahsoftware at sonic.net Wed May 17 17:49:32 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 14:49:32 -0700 Subject: Writing Extensions In-Reply-To: <8A53907F-8AC3-4A47-9DD1-EA205FB0EBE8@pacifier.com> References: <2781a3812a983f52562d3e094f82a64e@livecode.com> <8A53907F-8AC3-4A47-9DD1-EA205FB0EBE8@pacifier.com> Message-ID: On 05/17/2017 02:30 PM, JB via use-livecode wrote: > It looks to me like a the easier stepping > stone to fill the gap is just write the code > in C/C++, compile it and call it using a > shell coimmand. Is that working for you in Android apps? -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From sundown at pacifier.com Wed May 17 17:54:37 2017 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 14:54:37 -0700 Subject: Writing Extensions In-Reply-To: References: <2781a3812a983f52562d3e094f82a64e@livecode.com> <8A53907F-8AC3-4A47-9DD1-EA205FB0EBE8@pacifier.com> Message-ID: <04333A5D-982A-4E63-B278-EA1ED77885B7@pacifier.com> This may sound crazy but I do not have any mobile phones. I have a really old iPad that won?t run the newer os. I think androids are written in Java and I have used Java. I have read C can be ported to Java but that is all I know. JB > On May 17, 2017, at 2:49 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > > On 05/17/2017 02:30 PM, JB via use-livecode wrote: >> It looks to me like a the easier stepping >> stone to fill the gap is just write the code >> in C/C++, compile it and call it using a >> shell coimmand. > > Is that working for you in Android apps? > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed May 17 18:25:15 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 17:25:15 -0500 Subject: Android policy update Message-ID: <00d1759e-2585-56ab-0423-7a45a46bf1fc@hyperactivesw.com> I just got a developer email about a revision to Google's policies for apps on Google Play. Google will not allow apps that download executable code, similar to Apple's policy. It sounds like that includes stack content downloaded via a "launcher" app. https://play.google.com/about/privacy-security/malicious-behavior/ -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed May 17 19:08:20 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 16:08:20 -0700 Subject: Android policy update In-Reply-To: <00d1759e-2585-56ab-0423-7a45a46bf1fc@hyperactivesw.com> References: <00d1759e-2585-56ab-0423-7a45a46bf1fc@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: J. Landman Gay wrote: > I just got a developer email about a revision to Google's policies for > apps on Google Play. Google will not allow apps that download executable > code, similar to Apple's policy. It sounds like that includes stack > content downloaded via a "launcher" app. > > https://play.google.com/about/privacy-security/malicious-behavior/ Good to know - thanks. There *might* be some wiggle room here: This restriction does not apply to code that runs in a virtual machine and has limited access to Android APIs (such as JavaScript in a webview or browser). Whether or not Google would agree that LC is a sort of "VM" is anyone's guess, but LC Script is limited to LC's APIs and scripts can't extend an app's permissions beyond what the user has already allowed for the app. I wouldn't bet the farm on their interpretation, but I know some developers using a wide range of scripting languages that have been deploying with data+script download updates for years, even on iOS. I'm not recommending it, just noting that apparently within the confines of the LC VM such things are either not obviously noticeable or not a concern for the reviewer. Of course any app that violates any of the other policies outlined on that page will be dumped ASAP, regardless of how they handle updates. So folks, don't write jerk apps and let's keep things safe and user-friendly. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From mark at livecode.com Thu May 18 02:51:21 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 08:51:21 +0200 Subject: Android policy update In-Reply-To: <00d1759e-2585-56ab-0423-7a45a46bf1fc@hyperactivesw.com> References: <00d1759e-2585-56ab-0423-7a45a46bf1fc@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <6bf5b14bbdf2d148404a6100bc9f353a@livecode.com> On 2017-05-18 00:25, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > I just got a developer email about a revision to Google's policies for > apps on Google Play. Google will not allow apps that download > executable code, similar to Apple's policy. It sounds like that > includes stack content downloaded via a "launcher" app. > > https://play.google.com/about/privacy-security/malicious-behavior/ I would agree with Richard's analysis - albeit with one caveat discussed later on. Is it just me or is the wording of that page is atrocious? I hope there is a more detailed normative document in which these restrictions are placed (like the Apple SDK/Store Agreement). After all in the (presumably non-normative preamble) it says: "An app distributed via Google Play may not modify, replace, or update itself using any method other than Google Play?s update mechanism. Likewise, an app may not download executable code (e.g. dex, JAR, .so files) from a source other than Google Play. This restriction does not apply to code that runs in a virtual machine and has limited access to Android APIs (such as JavaScript in a webview or browser)." Then in what appears to be the normative section, it says: "The following are explicitly prohibited: - Apps or SDKs that download executable code, such as dex files or native code, from a source other than Google Play." This is somewhat contradictory without an explicit definition of what they mean by 'executable code'. However, reading between the lines I would infer that what they mean is this: "It is explicitly prohibited to allow an app to download code from outside of Google Play which is able to call more Android APIs than the host app was originally able to do." Anyway, reading between the lines, the reasoning behind this is simple - google can check all dex, JAR and .SO files which flow through Google Play for malicious code. They cannot check any code which is downloaded outside of Google Play - so if code is downloaded outside of Google Play then it must not create any more 'routes in' to the OS in order to trigger vulnerabilities and the only 'routes in' to the OS are Android API calls, whether they be Java or C. Anyway, I think you are fine as right now the range of APIs which the Android engine uses is fixed at the point of building an Android standalone and we are definitely a VM (LiveCode Script runs using an Abstract Syntax Tree, LiveCode Builder a ByteCode Machine) - thus we can be considered 'JavaScript in a WebView'-like. Okay so the caveat. I really want the above paragraph to be true, however it actually isn't if one casts a critical eye over the whole system... We potentially have an issue with LiveCode Builder... Well, not LiveCode Builder, but its FFI capabilities. It's very presence and the way it works means that in actual fact, we cannot say that 'code that runs in a virtual machine has limited access to Android APIs' - even the existing C FFI mechanism allows you to hook up to arbitrary C APIs; the upcoming Java FFI mechanism makes this even easier (as connecting to Java APIs is a fair bit easily than C - from the point of view of the developer, at least). Indeed, LCB modules are loadable at runtime, so you could download an LCB module which hooks into APIs the existing app does not; and then call them. Further than that, it is possible to write an LCB module which allows arbitrary machine code to be executed directly. This will require some thought - I'd rather LiveCode didn't get blacklisted from being considered a 'JavaScript running in a WebView'-like language. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mark at livecode.com Thu May 18 03:25:02 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 09:25:02 +0200 Subject: Writing Extensions In-Reply-To: <8A53907F-8AC3-4A47-9DD1-EA205FB0EBE8@pacifier.com> References: <2781a3812a983f52562d3e094f82a64e@livecode.com> <8A53907F-8AC3-4A47-9DD1-EA205FB0EBE8@pacifier.com> Message-ID: <247eb4b298c1461fc49f5971a15850d7@livecode.com> On 2017-05-17 23:30, JB via use-livecode wrote: > It looks to me like a the easier stepping > stone to fill the gap is just write the code > in C/C++, compile it and call it using a > shell coimmand. That works fine for batch processing type scenarios, certainly. However, it doesn't work if you want to display a visual element in a window, or need access to the rich in memory data structure the LiveCode engine has (e.g. the object tree, variables containing arrays, or large strings etc). It also won't ever work on iOS... Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mark at livecode.com Thu May 18 03:30:34 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 09:30:34 +0200 Subject: Writing Extensions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9e6475242e756c394b1e6e4d2522253e@livecode.com> On 2017-05-17 01:02, hh via use-livecode wrote: > But I wait for my next examples until there is a stable > widget format (we have meanwhile three formats that work on > some LC versions only, not on the others). Unfortunately we aren't going to be guaranteeing binary-level compatibility of the LCB module format for quite some time - it will likely change in every major version for quite a while yet. > To adjust these costs too much time, simply recompiling > worked here only in 1 of 20 cases. Can you elaborate by 'recompiling only worked here in 1 of 20 cases'? There's probably something we can do here. Currently widget source code is included in the extension when built using the extension builder (this will always be true of the community edition, and when we have our 'extensions store/sharing portal', it will be one way we can ensure people aren't doing anything nefarious (any widget which is to be accessible from community will require the source is in the extension, and also that the compiled module in the extension matches the included source). So, we could actually tweak things so that we generate the module file at extension installation time. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mark at livecode.com Thu May 18 03:45:18 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 09:45:18 +0200 Subject: Writing Extensions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 2017-05-17 21:27, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > Well, I'd love to have more parity between LCS and LCB as far as > keywords and syntax, but I guess that's outside the scope of the > documentation per se. But finding that constants like comma and quote > aren't defined in LCB was a shock. Indeed, even defining a constant > doesn't seem possible. Or at least it's not documented. Searching for > "constant" gives nothing, even though "PiConstant" is in the > dictionary. You can define constants using: constant X is Y Currently Y has to be a literal - not an expression (just like LCS). > Is it even possible to set the various delimiters? The documentation > only talks about retrieving them. The description talks about the > calling (script) handler's Delimiter property... is this an > actual property of the object or is just a shorthand way of talking > about "the Delimiter"? No - the context local properties are a LiveCode Script feature, they don't exist in LCB. The 'the Delimiter' syntax gives you access to the values of those properties in the most recent LCS stack frame allowing LCB to do similar things as the engine can in its commands and functions. > The pointer type isn't documented. Well it is listed in the language reference ;) > Why is the "point" operator documented as "PointMake"? Is this just to > differentiate between the "point" creator keyword and the "point" > object keyword? Each piece of syntax in LCB has a unique name (it is a definition, like a handler or a variable) - those title-case names you see are the names of the syntax definitions. The point operator is a constructor for the (Canvas.)Point type. > Some major strengths of LCS are missing in LCB, or at least don't > appear to be in the documentation. Chunks, for instance. It's possible > to get character chunks (and the [first|last] modifier in the offset > functions are *very* nice), but there's no conception of words. This > results in some ugly, convoluted, and error-prone coding to deal with > things that are not only easy in LCS, but IMNSHO one of the things > that makes LiveCode such a productive environment. I'm hoping this is > just a documentation failure and not a missing feature. LCB's syntax is quite minimal at the moment, it isn't meant to be a replacement for LCS (as mentioned before) - it is intended as a language which makes explicit the implicit patterns and abstractions which exist (albeit hand-coded in most cases) in the engine, so that they can be used to build the abstractions which we use everyday in LCS - and extend them in a natural way. For example, line and item chunks are actually an incarnation of what you might call a 'delimited chunk' - they have identical semantics, apart from where the delimiter to use is fetched from (the *delimiter property in local context). Similarly, word and token are 'tokenized chunks' - they action could be described by a regular expression. > The StringToJString and StringFromJString examples handler use the > "foreign handler" construct, but "foreign" isn't in the dictionary. > Nor is the "binds to" syntax. Nor the JObject or JString objects. Nor > the "unsafe" keyword. The dictionary doesn't currently contain anything which is 'part of the core language syntax' - more details about that can be found in the Guides section of the dictionary - there are a few guides related to LCB at the bottom. So, as Ali said, we have a fair bit of work to do on the documentation, but then that's also true of the language itself. LCB is definitely a work-in-progress but one which is actually quite usable now for a wide variety of things... Once you've got your head around how to use it! Warmest Regards, Mark -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mark at livecode.com Thu May 18 03:59:36 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 09:59:36 +0200 Subject: Writing Extensions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 2017-05-17 23:43, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > Yes. In fact it's the areas where they differ that make for a > difficult learning curve. There are features in LCB that I wish were > backported to LCS. I appreciate the team's reticence to make syntax > changes to the core xtalk language, but even as a long-time C > programmer, > > put tHexNumber converted from base 16 into tDecimalNumber > > seems so much more readable than > > put format("%02x", tHexNumber) into tDecimalNumber I wouldn't say we have a 'reticence' to make syntax changes but it requires a great deal more care than in LCB for several reasons: - The current implementation of LCS has no notion of versioning for its syntax or semantics - so every change to syntax / addition has to be done in a way which will not break user scripts. - All the syntax in the engine is done using hand-coded parsing - it is very easy to introduce unintended ambiguities and syntactic forms which we did not intend. - It is quite labour intensive to add / change syntax which means experimenting with it (which you need to do to get it 'just right') is hugely costly. In contrast, all of LCB's syntax (beyond the core control structures and definiton structures) is defined in LCB itself, and binds direct to handlers which implement that syntax (in contrast, in LCS, you have to write C++ code both to parse a piece of syntax, and to dispatch it to the implementation). For example, the syntax you mention above is defined like this: syntax BaseConvert is left binary operator with conversion precedence "converted" "from" "base" "to" "base" begin MCMathEvalConvertBase(Operand, Source, Target, output) end syntax With 'MCMathEvalConvertBase' being a (foreign) handler implemented in C++ which performs the action of the syntax. The main limitation with LCB's syntax right now is that it has to be compiled into a parser spec ahead of time - i.e. at creation of the lc-compile tool - but even with that restriction, 'playing' with syntax is possible by just a tweak to a code file and a click of a button (albeit in a native code IDE), rather than spending many hours hand modifying some rather old (and in some places very complex) C++ code. Of course, one valid retort here would be - then why don't you just make it easier to do this by changing how the engine works in this regard? And the simple answer is that we are - in order to do that we need an architecture and method of doing so, and LCB is that architecture. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From ali.lloyd at livecode.com Thu May 18 05:29:27 2017 From: ali.lloyd at livecode.com (Ali Lloyd) Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 09:29:27 +0000 Subject: Writing Extensions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks Mark, those comments on the docs are really helpful! I've filed bugs for the core language features, the fixed width font in the extension builder, script object docs and misleading CamelCase naming. On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 8:59 AM Mark Waddingham via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On 2017-05-17 23:43, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > > Yes. In fact it's the areas where they differ that make for a > > difficult learning curve. There are features in LCB that I wish were > > backported to LCS. I appreciate the team's reticence to make syntax > > changes to the core xtalk language, but even as a long-time C > > programmer, > > > > put tHexNumber converted from base 16 into tDecimalNumber > > > > seems so much more readable than > > > > put format("%02x", tHexNumber) into tDecimalNumber > > I wouldn't say we have a 'reticence' to make syntax changes but it > requires > a great deal more care than in LCB for several reasons: > > - The current implementation of LCS has no notion of versioning for > its > syntax or semantics - so every change to syntax / addition has to > be done > in a way which will not break user scripts. > > - All the syntax in the engine is done using hand-coded parsing - it > is very > easy to introduce unintended ambiguities and syntactic forms which > we did > not intend. > > - It is quite labour intensive to add / change syntax which means > experimenting > with it (which you need to do to get it 'just right') is hugely > costly. > > In contrast, all of LCB's syntax (beyond the core control structures and > definiton > structures) is defined in LCB itself, and binds direct to handlers which > implement > that syntax (in contrast, in LCS, you have to write C++ code both to > parse a piece > of syntax, and to dispatch it to the implementation). For example, the > syntax you > mention above is defined like this: > > syntax BaseConvert is left binary operator with conversion precedence > "converted" "from" "base" > "to" "base" > begin > MCMathEvalConvertBase(Operand, Source, Target, output) > end syntax > > With 'MCMathEvalConvertBase' being a (foreign) handler implemented in > C++ which performs > the action of the syntax. > > The main limitation with LCB's syntax right now is that it has to be > compiled into > a parser spec ahead of time - i.e. at creation of the lc-compile tool - > but even with > that restriction, 'playing' with syntax is possible by just a tweak to a > code file and a click of > a button (albeit in a native code IDE), rather than spending many hours > hand modifying > some rather old (and in some places very complex) C++ code. > > Of course, one valid retort here would be - then why don't you just make > it easier to > do this by changing how the engine works in this regard? And the simple > answer is that > we are - in order to do that we need an architecture and method of doing > so, and LCB is > that architecture. > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > > -- > Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ > LiveCode: Everyone can create apps > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From hh at hyperhh.de Thu May 18 06:48:06 2017 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 12:48:06 +0200 Subject: LC core team Message-ID: <85F763D2-D031-467E-8E15-EE877BBA3D78@hyperhh.de> There is rumour about personal changes in the LC core-team. Could we please get some reliable info about that? What are the consequences of that change for the HTML5 deployment? There was no progress with that for half a year. Is it now 'stopped'? From hh at hyperhh.de Thu May 18 07:29:02 2017 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 13:29:02 +0200 Subject: Writing Extensions Message-ID: <47F5D8B1-D753-460D-8A55-3B176C225957@hyperhh.de> > hh wrote: >> But I wait for my next examples until there is a stable >> widget format (we have meanwhile three formats that work on >> some LC versions only, not on the others). > Mark Waddingham wrote: > Unfortunately we aren't going to be guaranteeing binary-level > compatibility of the LCB module format for quite some time - it will > likely change in every major version for quite a while yet. No, not only the binary-level compatibility is the problem. LC Builder is not downward compatible (without documenting that), already running parts are removed. See for example (in forum/bug-triage): http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?p=148665#p148665 > hh wrote: >>> To adjust these costs too much time, simply recompiling >>> worked here only in 1 of 20 cases. > > Mark Waddingham wrote: > Can you elaborate by 'recompiling only worked here in 1 of 20 cases'? > > There's probably something we can do here. Currently widget source code > is included in the extension when built using the extension builder (this > will always be true of the community edition, and when we have our > 'extensions store/sharing portal', it will be one way we can ensure people > aren't doing anything nefarious (any widget which is to be accessible from > community will require the source is in the extension, and also that the > compiled module in the extension matches the included source). So, we > could actually tweak things so that we generate the module file at > extension installation time. There are "public, non-LC-staff" lcb files on github (by TrevorDeVore) or here (forum/LC Builder/Community widgets): http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=93&t=28020 Feel free to take one as demo for what is not running in new LC versions. The one connected most to the bug-triage link above is #42 ("SVG-Text"), downloadable via livecodeshare or "Sample Stacks". From colinholgate at gmail.com Thu May 18 08:16:21 2017 From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate) Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 05:16:21 -0700 Subject: Android policy update In-Reply-To: <6bf5b14bbdf2d148404a6100bc9f353a@livecode.com> References: <00d1759e-2585-56ab-0423-7a45a46bf1fc@hyperactivesw.com> <6bf5b14bbdf2d148404a6100bc9f353a@livecode.com> Message-ID: <79FB7267-FDF0-40DE-94FA-6ED1DFC42E4B@gmail.com> I haven?t been following this topic, but I happen to be at Google I/O. If there are any short questions I could ask while I?m here I could ask around. One thing I?m going to go to this morning involves Google Play policies. From mark at livecode.com Thu May 18 08:34:27 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 14:34:27 +0200 Subject: LC core team In-Reply-To: <85F763D2-D031-467E-8E15-EE877BBA3D78@hyperhh.de> References: <85F763D2-D031-467E-8E15-EE877BBA3D78@hyperhh.de> Message-ID: <493534b63f8600081a417c70f8414361@livecode.com> On 2017-05-18 12:48, hh via use-livecode wrote: > There is rumour about personal changes in the LC core-team. > Could we please get some reliable info about that? Well, not 'personal' (in the usual sense of the word) per-se, but our team has changed slightly recently. I'll post some more information about this in due course. > What are the consequences of that change for the HTML5 deployment? > There was no progress with that for half a year. Is it now 'stopped'? No - it never stopped. Admittedly the last *feature* to be added to the HTML5 engine was 'do as javascript' (which is actually a feature which enables anyone who knows javascript to get the HTML5 engine to do a whole lot), but remember that the HTML5 engine is just another platform like any other, so work on the platform as a whole benefits HTML5 too. That being said, recently we are a hair's breadth away from getting widgets working in HTML5 (hopefully running a little quicker than they did before too): https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/5428 (Yes, the name of the PR sounds unrelated to HTML5, but the purpose of doing what it said was to get widgets working *in* HTML5 - but it has a couple of other fringe benefits as well - a slight performance bump for LCB execution in general) We've also been looking at how to abstract the FFI work we've done as part of the Infinite LiveCode campaign to allow LCB to bind to JavaScript APIs (which will allow greater type fidelity than is possible using 'do as javascript' from LCS). Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mark at livecode.com Thu May 18 08:44:20 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 14:44:20 +0200 Subject: Writing Extensions In-Reply-To: <47F5D8B1-D753-460D-8A55-3B176C225957@hyperhh.de> References: <47F5D8B1-D753-460D-8A55-3B176C225957@hyperhh.de> Message-ID: <3cadb8d7eb2331e72b5edea84d94f6ac@livecode.com> On 2017-05-18 13:29, hh via use-livecode wrote: > No, not only the binary-level compatibility is the problem. LC Builder > is not downward compatible (without documenting that), already running > parts are removed. > > See for example (in forum/bug-triage): > http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?p=148665#p148665 I have to remind people - please file bug reports! If you don't then the chances of these things getting addressed, explained, or advice given reduces greatly. The issue there I'm pretty sure is purely one of non-binary compatibility. The module files generated by the lc-compile tool in any major version is likely to only produce files what work in that major version. (It does sound like a bug has crept in there, potentially, in resource resolution though - hence my comment about filing bug reports). So the problem actually reduces to - having a widget which does not use anything new in LCB V+1, but you want to use in V and V+1. This is solved simply by compiling the widget file with the lc-compile from V and the lc-compile from V+1. If your widget uses new LCB features which are only in V+1, then backwards compatibility isn't going to work - like it wouldn't in a stack which was written to use features in 9, which aren't in 8. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mark at livecode.com Thu May 18 08:50:41 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 14:50:41 +0200 Subject: Writing Extensions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7811ca25398da6f5be241eade20aaa10@livecode.com> On 2017-05-17 01:02, hh via use-livecode wrote: >>> Alejandro T. wrote: >>> How fast is LCB working with imagedata? > Would be great, if not too difficult to realise, to have > a "do as javascript" here (which uses the js engine only > of the browser widget). This is at least ten times faster > with imagedata than fastest LC Script. See several recent > examples in "Sample stacks" (and some more links in the > Raspi-Subforum to extern servers). You could access 'do as javascript' in a browser widget from LCB - just use the 'execute script' command (although there are places where you cannot use that form - in OnCreate, OnDestroy, OnLoad, OnSave, OnPaint - just because they are critical handlers in which you don't things to get shaken up too much). >>> Alejandro T. wrote: >>> How fast is LCB working with transform matrices? > > Pretty fast and comfortable for transforming all 'small' > canvas data (pathes, text, pattern, image-as-a-whole). > I liked that after taking the first hurdles. > > You may test yourself with snippets or lcb files from the > LCB-subforum. There is a lot of stuff for starting there. > Or use the examples on github by Trevor DeVore or the ones > by the LC-stuff, variants by BerndN. The canvas library basically wraps our C wrapper (libgraphics) around Skia, so LCB is only being used as the 'glue' there. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From colinholgate at gmail.com Thu May 18 09:00:06 2017 From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate) Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 06:00:06 -0700 Subject: Android policy update In-Reply-To: <6bf5b14bbdf2d148404a6100bc9f353a@livecode.com> References: <00d1759e-2585-56ab-0423-7a45a46bf1fc@hyperactivesw.com> <6bf5b14bbdf2d148404a6100bc9f353a@livecode.com> Message-ID: <9BFD7C7E-660E-4EEB-801F-C4EA909604DA@gmail.com> The things that you?re talking about, involving an app updating itself, does that currently get past Apple review? That would be an argument to use with Google, in that Apple have usually been tougher about this. Also, does Google?s policy suggest that you can?t even update an image in the app? From mark at livecode.com Thu May 18 09:17:41 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 15:17:41 +0200 Subject: Android policy update In-Reply-To: <9BFD7C7E-660E-4EEB-801F-C4EA909604DA@gmail.com> References: <00d1759e-2585-56ab-0423-7a45a46bf1fc@hyperactivesw.com> <6bf5b14bbdf2d148404a6100bc9f353a@livecode.com> <9BFD7C7E-660E-4EEB-801F-C4EA909604DA@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 2017-05-18 15:00, Colin Holgate via use-livecode wrote: > The things that you?re talking about, involving an app updating > itself, does that currently get past Apple review? That would be an > argument to use with Google, in that Apple have usually been tougher > about this. > > Also, does Google?s policy suggest that you can?t even update an image > in the app? I think the web-page which Jacque linked to is much too vague - it doesn't define any of the terms it uses, and contradicts itself as mentioned in my previous post. One thing to find out is what the actual text of the agreement you have to click through to sign says - I'd imagine that's where the *actual* T&Cs are. As written, a conservative interpretation of that text would suggest no, you cannot update an existing image in an app - as that is technically modifying yourself. Similarly, it says that you can't 'modify, replace or update' other than via the Google Play Store - isn't downloding content modifying the app technically speaking? Of course, I'm splitting hairs here slightly - the intent of the policy is crystal clear here, they are trying to ensure that apps cannot leverage vulnerabilities which were not known at the time the app was submitted to the app store. However, the text on that page is too ill-defined to be *any* sort of binding agreement - so I hope there's a stricter version. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From hh at hyperhh.de Thu May 18 09:53:10 2017 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 15:53:10 +0200 Subject: Writing Extensions Message-ID: <8831728B-2CB9-4F2E-8E00-4AFC44746A90@hyperhh.de> >> hh wrote: >> See for example (in forum/bug-triage): >> http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?p=148665#p148665 > Mark W. wrote: > I have to remind people - please file bug reports! If you don't then the > chances of these things getting addressed, explained, or advice given > reduces greatly. LCB bug reports by me only: 18899 CONFIRMED 2016-11-29, LCB: load image from resource file defunct in 9.0.0-dp2 18669 CONFIRMED 2016-10-24, LCB: display problem in Linux when rotating the canvas 18628 CONFIRMED 2016-11-03, LCB: Random 'jumping' of path elements (polygon path) 18562 CONFIRMED 2016-11-03, LCB: The local date offset is wrong in Win and linux 18258 CONFIRMED 2016-08-30, LCB-Canvas: access to logical and drawing bounding rects ID 18899 reports the 'remaining' part named in the forum-link above. This is a justification not a reproach. I appreciate the team's work connected to bugs (especially Panos as 'gatekeeper') very much. From mark at livecode.com Thu May 18 10:03:27 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 16:03:27 +0200 Subject: Writing Extensions In-Reply-To: <8831728B-2CB9-4F2E-8E00-4AFC44746A90@hyperhh.de> References: <8831728B-2CB9-4F2E-8E00-4AFC44746A90@hyperhh.de> Message-ID: <4236feaefeb74902551218093279a721@livecode.com> On 2017-05-18 15:53, hh via use-livecode wrote: > LCB bug reports by me only: > > 18899 CONFIRMED 2016-11-29, LCB: load image from resource file defunct > in 9.0.0-dp2 > 18669 CONFIRMED 2016-10-24, LCB: display problem in Linux when > rotating the canvas > 18628 CONFIRMED 2016-11-03, LCB: Random 'jumping' of path elements > (polygon path) > 18562 CONFIRMED 2016-11-03, LCB: The local date offset is wrong in Win > and linux > 18258 CONFIRMED 2016-08-30, LCB-Canvas: access to logical and drawing > bounding rects > > ID 18899 reports the 'remaining' part named in the forum-link above. > > This is a justification not a reproach. I appreciate the team's work > connected to bugs > (especially Panos as 'gatekeeper') very much. Heh - hoisted by my own petard there - I should have searched bugzilla first :) Thanks for the list, though :) Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From hh at hyperhh.de Thu May 18 10:09:10 2017 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 16:09:10 +0200 Subject: HTML5 deployment: progress comes into sight Message-ID: <467557AC-D586-429C-90DE-CB03951B6ECF@hyperhh.de> [Excerpt from thread 'LC core team', now with a more approriate title.] > > Mark Waddingham wrote on May 18, 2017: > > What are the consequences of that [team] change for the HTML5 deployment? > > There was no progress with that for half a year. Is it now 'stopped'? > > No - it never stopped. Admittedly the last *feature* to be added to the > HTML5 engine was 'do as javascript' (which is actually a feature which > enables anyone who knows javascript to get the HTML5 engine to do a > whole > lot), but remember that the HTML5 engine is just another platform like > any other, so work on the platform as a whole benefits HTML5 too. > > That being said, recently we are a hair's breadth away from getting > widgets working in HTML5 (hopefully running a little quicker than they > did before too): > > https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/5428 > > (Yes, the name of the PR sounds unrelated to HTML5, but the purpose of > doing what it said was to get widgets working *in* HTML5 - but it has > a couple of other fringe benefits as well - a slight performance bump > for LCB execution in general) > > We've also been looking at how to abstract the FFI work we've done as > part of the Infinite LiveCode campaign to allow LCB to bind to > JavaScript > APIs (which will allow greater type fidelity than is possible using > 'do as javascript' from LCS). That sounds so great, not only all HTML5-license owners look forward to these improvements. Especially a javascript FFI would allow to 'connect' the HTML5 canvas element and the LC Builder canvas object. From roland.huettmann at gmail.com Thu May 18 10:51:54 2017 From: roland.huettmann at gmail.com (Roland Huettmann) Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 16:51:54 +0200 Subject: Writing Extensions Message-ID: I am following this discussion about extensions with great interest. Still, partially it goes over my head and as a simple LCS scripter, I sometimes feel a bit lost. As I read from different beginners sources, the best is always to know C and C++ as the "mothers" of languages to then being able to appreciate and understand higher level languages much better. But unfortunately, I do not have the time to spend the next 12 months in going deeply into C/C++. The examples and lessons for LCB provided so far from different sources are possible to follow, but we "normal" LCS users not knowing other languages lack the deeper understanding to be able to use such LCB tool without a lot of explanation and a lot of examples. And such explanation and examples should be based on the notion that all a typical user knows is a medium level knowledge of LCS and nothing much more. Sometimes it is good to just assume a user who is a complete newbie. Coming also from the field of advertising, I was always told to text in such a way that my grandmother will understand it, or a 12-year-old schoolmate. If they understand then everyone will understand. I hope that there is somebody who is willing to spend the time unfolding the potential of LCB to the "rest of us" since who would not like to work with more sophisticated widgets or execute them in a fraction of time and at least be able to twist things the way we want? Or what do I have to learn to actually using LCB based on a fractional and medium level of understanding -- enough for LCS, but not enough for more. For a newbie, it is already difficult understanding what a "canvas" is since that term is not used in LCS. And there is more to learn. And I would appreciate --- I am not knowledgeable myself enough to do this, otherwise I would -- if there would be an easy to read article on how all this fits together, how LCS and LCB work, what a parser actually is, what it means to compile, what is done using C++ behind the curtain, and how the computer / the processor would understand our instructions given in near-English LCS language. And then -- especially following examples and working with them -- some knowledge will dawn. All this could be done in the context of LCS, LCB, and even C++ as the source of all. Maybe, really, I should start learning C++ now.) Roland From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu May 18 10:51:55 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 14:51:55 +0000 Subject: Android policy update In-Reply-To: References: <00d1759e-2585-56ab-0423-7a45a46bf1fc@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <139F6557-0734-4723-BEB3-6DF7CCB5A675@iotecdigital.com> Dam! I was almost ready to deploy my new iOS app, Jerky 2.0! Bob S > On May 17, 2017, at 16:08 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > Of course any app that violates any of the other policies outlined on that page will be dumped ASAP, regardless of how they handle updates. So folks, don't write jerk apps and let's keep things safe and user-friendly. > > -- > Richard Gaskin From colinholgate at gmail.com Thu May 18 11:10:04 2017 From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate) Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 08:10:04 -0700 Subject: Android policy update In-Reply-To: <139F6557-0734-4723-BEB3-6DF7CCB5A675@iotecdigital.com> References: <00d1759e-2585-56ab-0423-7a45a46bf1fc@hyperactivesw.com> <139F6557-0734-4723-BEB3-6DF7CCB5A675@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <47D8B323-B259-495B-AD76-82BBEB4D0525@gmail.com> The policy does tell you that if an existing app is not allowed you have 30 days to submit an update. So, a little slower that ASAP. > On May 18, 2017, at 7:51 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > > Dam! I was almost ready to deploy my new iOS app, Jerky 2.0! > > Bob S > > >> On May 17, 2017, at 16:08 , Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Of course any app that violates any of the other policies outlined on that page will be dumped ASAP, regardless of how they handle updates. So folks, don't write jerk apps and let's keep things safe and user-friendly. >> >> -- >> Richard Gaskin > From ahsoftware at sonic.net Thu May 18 12:07:59 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 09:07:59 -0700 Subject: Writing Extensions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <21c77d1f-670e-3e8c-7208-51423fc24188@sonic.net> On 05/18/2017 12:45 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: > You can define constants using: > > constant X is Y > > Currently Y has to be a literal - not an expression (just like LCS). Didn't find it in the dictionary, but I do see that now in the language reference. How would one define a quote constant? constant quote is "\q" ? The language guide explicitly states "Note: Constants are not currently implemented, although the syntax is recognised." What am I supposed to make of that? >> Is it even possible to set the various delimiters? The documentation >> only talks about retrieving them. The description talks about the >> calling (script) handler's Delimiter property... is this an >> actual property of the object or is just a shorthand way of talking >> about "the Delimiter"? > > No - the context local properties are a LiveCode Script feature, they > don't exist in LCB. > > The 'the Delimiter' syntax gives you access to the values of those > properties in the most recent LCS stack frame allowing LCB to do similar > things as the engine can in its commands and functions. That's unfortunate. In LCS I often change the itemdelimiter in order to parse complex strings. The lack of the ability to manipulate things at this level is a serious detriment to text parsing, which is one of the main strengths of LCS. > >> The pointer type isn't documented. > > Well it is listed in the language reference ;) Ah. So the dictionary isn't a good place to look for things. I'll spend some time working my way through the language reference instead. > LCB's syntax is quite minimal at the moment, it isn't meant to be a > replacement for LCS (as mentioned before) - it is intended as a language > which makes explicit the implicit patterns and abstractions which exist > (albeit hand-coded in most cases) in the engine, so that they can be used > to build the abstractions which we use everyday in LCS - and extend them > in a natural way. > > For example, line and item chunks are actually an incarnation of what > you might call a 'delimited chunk' - they have identical semantics, apart > from where the delimiter to use is fetched from (the *delimiter property > in local context). > > Similarly, word and token are 'tokenized chunks' - they action could be > described by a regular expression. See above (itemdelimiter). -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From ahsoftware at sonic.net Thu May 18 12:18:46 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 09:18:46 -0700 Subject: Writing Extensions In-Reply-To: <9e6475242e756c394b1e6e4d2522253e@livecode.com> References: <9e6475242e756c394b1e6e4d2522253e@livecode.com> Message-ID: <205c47ba-8e2c-11e0-c0a8-3f6678b1f7a5@sonic.net> On 05/18/2017 12:30 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: > Unfortunately we aren't going to be guaranteeing binary-level > compatibility of the LCB module format for quite some time - it will > likely change in every major version for quite a while yet. That's unfortunate. It means that, aside from distributing the widget source code, compiled widgets are bound to a specific LC version with no guarantee that they will work with any other past or future version. Does 'major version' here mean 9.x or 9.0.x? Can I assume that the binary format will stay the same across all LC9.x releases? I have to say I'm surprised that we're still at this state of things so far after the fanfare introduction of extensions. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From ahsoftware at sonic.net Thu May 18 12:58:46 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 09:58:46 -0700 Subject: Writing Extensions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <27d8308f-13a9-cd03-01fe-7cb30931652a@sonic.net> It's not necessary to do any C++ (or any other language) coding to work with LCB. One of the reasons for LCB's existence is to allow the language to be extended into linking with parts of the operating system where it can't currently reach, and in that sense knowledge of how to interact with the C++ or java or whatever libraries is essential. And much of LCB (strong variable typing, pointers, etc) exists for that purpose. And is necessary for those tasks. But creating and working with extensions is (should be) otherwise almost like working in the familiar LCS environment. If you are creating a custom control you don't need any C++ ('canvas' isn't a C++ term, by the way) to do so. My current struggles in dealing with the LCB are mainly in those areas where the LCS and LCB differ and the current documentation is not adequate to cover the differences. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From kaveh at rivervalleytechnologies.com Thu May 18 13:10:55 2017 From: kaveh at rivervalleytechnologies.com (Kaveh Bazargan) Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 18:10:55 +0100 Subject: Sort so that "Hello" is always before "hello" Message-ID: I have the following lines when a list of words is sorted: Hello hello Hello hello hello so there is no hierarchy between upper and lower case chars. I want caps to go first. How do i do that pls? -- Kaveh Bazargan Director River Valley Technologies @kaveh1000 +44 7771 824 111 www.rivervalleytechnologies.com From revdev at pdslabs.net Thu May 18 13:19:02 2017 From: revdev at pdslabs.net (Phil Davis) Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 10:19:02 -0700 Subject: Sort so that "Hello" is always before "hello" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <98f07999-6a47-66d7-6013-e2cf4000c421@pdslabs.net> "set the caseSensitive to true" before sorting. Phil Davis On 5/18/17 10:10 AM, Kaveh Bazargan via use-livecode wrote: > I have the following lines when a list of words is sorted: > > Hello > hello > Hello > hello > hello > > so there is no hierarchy between upper and lower case chars. I want caps to > go first. How do i do that pls? > -- Phil Davis From waprothero at gmail.com Thu May 18 13:20:14 2017 From: waprothero at gmail.com (William Prothero) Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 10:20:14 -0700 Subject: English Like? In-Reply-To: References: <87287AF1-9463-42DB-B866-3277490A100F@gmail.com> Message-ID: Richard: Thanks for the kind words. I think that comments by relative newbies, who don?t have the same experience with LC are very important. I?ve mentioned several times that some of the tutorials and lessons can miss things that the author takes for granted. I?m particularly sensitive to this because of my long experience teaching college students having them use my software. It is very difficult for the developer of the software to avoid making assumptions based on experience and it takes special attention. One organization I worked with did eye-tracking with naive users to validate their web applications. I don?t think that?s needed for livecode, but more attention to this, when publishing teaching documents would be very helpful. This was a very significant problem with the first course on using LC to make apps that came with the iPhone. I ended up dropping out because I was wasting so much of my time trying to figure out bugs and what should have been in the tutorial. These resources may be the first time a person really gets into Livecode and the kinds of difficulties I encountered could be very off-putting to a new user. Anyway, I encourage the authors of tutorial software to pay significant attention to learning resources they put out for the public to make sure the learning goes smoothly. Best, Bill > > But posts like yours are VERY helpful for those of us who teach newcomers. When we've learned these things too long ago it's easy to forget they were ever unintuitive at first, which may miss opportunities for more effective on-boarding. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mark at livecode.com Thu May 18 13:30:31 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 19:30:31 +0200 Subject: Writing Extensions In-Reply-To: <21c77d1f-670e-3e8c-7208-51423fc24188@sonic.net> References: <21c77d1f-670e-3e8c-7208-51423fc24188@sonic.net> Message-ID: <0daf672be301a7e1daf78c519a113e31@livecode.com> On 2017-05-18 18:07, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > Didn't find it in the dictionary, but I do see that now in the > language reference. How would one define a quote constant? > constant quote is "\q" ? Yes. > The language guide explicitly states "Note: Constants are not > currently implemented, although the syntax is recognised." What am I > supposed to make of that? That's a bug in the language reference - it should say that only literal values are supported at present, general (constant) expressions are not. > That's unfortunate. In LCS I often change the itemdelimiter in order a > to parse complex strings. The lack of the ability to manipulate things > at this level is a serious detriment to text parsing, which is one of > the main strengths of LCS. Indeed - it is a *great* strength of LCS and is very important in the domain of things which are written in LCS. The development of LCB has mainly focused on things which LCS cannot do - like calling foreign functions and being able to render complex visual representations of data with a much lower overhead than is necessary in LCS. > Ah. So the dictionary isn't a good place to look for things. I'll > spend some time working my way through the language reference instead. Heh - as Ali said, the docs and such need a fair bit of work :) >> Similarly, word and token are 'tokenized chunks' - they action could >> be >> described by a regular expression. > > See above (itemdelimiter). See above (strengths of LCS vs LCB) :) Now, I'm not saying that LCB shouldn't have better ways to manipulate text - closing the gap between LCS and LCB is an important goal; however, it seems wiser to get the things working in LCB which LCS cannot do first, before replicating functionality LCS already does really well. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mark at livecode.com Thu May 18 13:57:27 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 19:57:27 +0200 Subject: Writing Extensions In-Reply-To: <205c47ba-8e2c-11e0-c0a8-3f6678b1f7a5@sonic.net> References: <9e6475242e756c394b1e6e4d2522253e@livecode.com> <205c47ba-8e2c-11e0-c0a8-3f6678b1f7a5@sonic.net> Message-ID: On 2017-05-18 18:18, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > That's unfortunate. It means that, aside from distributing the widget > source code, compiled widgets are bound to a specific LC version with > no guarantee that they will work with any other past or future > version. Does 'major version' here mean 9.x or 9.0.x? Can I assume > that the binary format will stay the same across all LC9.x releases? I'm not sure it as much of a problem as it first appears to be - because much the same is true of LiveCode Script. If you write a script in 9 which uses features of 9, it will not work in any version less than 9. If you write a script in 8 then yes, we work very hard to ensure that scripts will work exactly the same in 9. So LiveCode Script is source forward-compatible (because we work had to make it so); but not source backward-compatible. Now, much the same is true of LiveCode Builder in terms of source-compatibility (any source-compatibility issues should be reported so we can look into it). However, currently, LiveCode Builder compiles to a bytecode format which we do not guarantee inter-major version compatibility of currently (whether 'major version' here is the first version point, or first two version points is immaterial - we do guarantee binary compatibility between maintenance releases). However, 8.1.x module format is fixed and will not change, as is lc-compile and the lcb standard library. This means that those specific builds of tools will now and forever produce modules which load into 8.1.x - so we have a LCB8.1 toolchain. Similarly, when 9 goes GM, the module format, lcb standard library and lc-compile will forever produce modules which load into 9.0.x - so we have an LCB9.0 toolchain. If there comes a point where we do perhaps need to break source-compatibility, we will make lc-compile more clever - making sure it can be passed a 'source version' argument. Or we will reconsider the module format slightly, raising its abstraction level slightly so this isn't an issue, write a suitable converter and happily move on. The point is the whole problem can be sufficiently solved quite well with better tooling (which we are aware we need to work on); and in the future can be solved completely using a little bit of cleverness and exploiting the way LCB has been implemented. > I have to say I'm surprised that we're still at this state of things > so far after the fanfare introduction of extensions. It is important to remember that LCB has only been in development (on and off) for about 2 1/2 years at this point. Rust has taken over 7 to get to source-compatibiliy stage (IIRC), and Swift broke source compatibility at least twice I think since its launch - so I don't think we are doing too badly (particularly when you compare the size of Mozilla, Apple and us... I'll leave you guys to do the math there). And on a slightly tongue-in-cheek note: I'm surprised after 26 years, the linux world has not solved its binary compatibility problem. Indeed, they don't seem to care about it one bit - even though it causes huge amounts of wasted effort for any organisation daring to consider distributing *binary only* applications. God forbid! (Also, the further you move away from glibc in the Linux stack, the worse things get in terms of source compatibility too...) ;) Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu May 18 14:08:40 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 18:08:40 +0000 Subject: Sort so that "Hello" is always before "hello" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: doesn't look like there is a command to do this. Try creating an sqLite database in memory (or on disk it doesn't matter) called tempdata with a column called textdata, adding your words/items/lines to the database, then query the database with select textdata from template order by textdata. You could create this as a function passing the arguments pText, pChunkType, pOrder. pText contains your text to be sorted, pChunkType could be lines, items or words, and pOrder would be ascending or descending. Presto! Your own case sensitive sort function! Bob S > On May 18, 2017, at 10:10 , Kaveh Bazargan via use-livecode wrote: > > I have the following lines when a list of words is sorted: > > Hello > hello > Hello > hello > hello > > so there is no hierarchy between upper and lower case chars. I want caps to > go first. How do i do that pls? > > -- > Kaveh Bazargan > Director > River Valley Technologies > @kaveh1000 > +44 7771 824 111 > www.rivervalleytechnologies.com From andre at andregarzia.com Thu May 18 14:41:56 2017 From: andre at andregarzia.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 15:41:56 -0300 Subject: User friendly functions to replace MySQL queries? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Aloha Friends, I have been away for a while but I am about to make some cool announcements today. I will be releasing some updates in the next few days for all libraries including this one. Also re-uploading them to my site. om om andre On Mon, May 8, 2017 at 1:30 PM, Kaveh Bazargan via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Sounds great. Yes please Bob... > > On 8 May 2017 at 16:21, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > sqlYoga is awesome. The learning curve is a bit steep at first, but once > > you get it, it's great. I wrote functions and a database setup interface > > that makes it all fairly transparent to use. I can share if you like. > > > > Bob S > > > > > > > On May 7, 2017, at 13:55 , Kaveh Bazargan via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > > > Hi all > > > > > > Writing MySQL queries using LiveCode is a bit painful, so I thought of > > > writing some higher level functions to produce the queries, a bit like > > > these from Ken Ray: > > > > > > http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/livecode/tips/data005.htm > > > > > > But before I start I wonder if anyone else has done these. > > > > > > I know Andr? Garcia wrote a big package, but his site seems down: > > > > > > http://www.andregarzia.com/page/revspark > > > > > > Any pointers please? > > > > > > -- > > > Kaveh Bazargan > > > Director > > > River Valley Technologies > > > @kaveh1000 > > > +44 7771 824 111 > > > www.rivervalleytechnologies.com > > > _______________________________________________ > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > -- > Kaveh Bazargan > Director > River Valley Technologies > @kaveh1000 > +44 7771 824 111 > www.rivervalleytechnologies.com > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- http://www.andregarzia.com -- All We Do Is Code. http://fon.nu -- minimalist url shortening service. From ahsoftware at sonic.net Thu May 18 16:08:23 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 13:08:23 -0700 Subject: Writing Extensions In-Reply-To: References: <9e6475242e756c394b1e6e4d2522253e@livecode.com> <205c47ba-8e2c-11e0-c0a8-3f6678b1f7a5@sonic.net> Message-ID: <4505754c-c824-fc79-a3aa-26395d55292b@sonic.net> On 05/18/2017 10:57 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: > On 2017-05-18 18:18, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: >> That's unfortunate. It means that, aside from distributing the widget >> source code, compiled widgets are bound to a specific LC version with >> no guarantee that they will work with any other past or future >> version. Does 'major version' here mean 9.x or 9.0.x? Can I assume >> that the binary format will stay the same across all LC9.x releases? > > I'm not sure it as much of a problem as it first appears to be - because > much the same is true of LiveCode Script. > > If you write a script in 9 which uses features of 9, it will not work in > any version less than 9. Yes, but that's comparing two different things. I'm concerned about the differing binary formats, not the source compatibility. I'm stuck if I want to distribute an easy-to-use extension (widget or library) for others to use. My alternative is to distribute the source and say "here you go... compile and install it yourself. And remember to do that again when the next major version of LC comes out or it won't work any more." > The point is the whole problem can be sufficiently solved quite well > with better tooling (which we are aware we need to work on); and in the > future can be solved completely using a little bit of cleverness and > exploiting the way LCB has been implemented. Cool. That sounds promising. > >> I have to say I'm surprised that we're still at this state of things >> so far after the fanfare introduction of extensions. > > It is important to remember that LCB has only been in development (on > and off) for about 2 1/2 years at this point. Rust has taken over 7 to > get to source-compatibiliy stage (IIRC), and Swift broke source > compatibility at least twice I think since its launch - so I don't think > we are doing too badly (particularly when you compare the size of > Mozilla, Apple and us... I'll leave you guys to do the math there). I *don't* think we're doing badly in the realm of source-code compatibility. I never intended to imply that. Sorry if I gave that impression. To be fair about your comparisons, Rust only reached 1.0.0 stage two years ago. My statement there was more about that fact that given all the hoopla that accompanied the announcement of LCB, extensions, and the Way Forward, the state of the resources and environment for extension development seems pretty fragile at this point. > > And on a slightly tongue-in-cheek note: I'm surprised after 26 years, > the linux world has not solved its binary compatibility problem. Indeed, > they don't seem to care about it one bit - even though it causes huge > amounts of wasted effort for any organisation daring to consider > distributing *binary only* applications. God forbid! (Also, the further > you move away from glibc in the Linux stack, the worse things get in > terms of source compatibility too...) ;) Heh. The nice thing about linux is there are so many to choose from... -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu May 18 16:28:38 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 20:28:38 +0000 Subject: Writing Extensions In-Reply-To: <4505754c-c824-fc79-a3aa-26395d55292b@sonic.net> References: <9e6475242e756c394b1e6e4d2522253e@livecode.com> <205c47ba-8e2c-11e0-c0a8-3f6678b1f7a5@sonic.net> <4505754c-c824-fc79-a3aa-26395d55292b@sonic.net> Message-ID: <35E3EC1E-77BD-4572-9791-CBEEA3DE0129@iotecdigital.com> On the other hand, the bad thing about Linux is that there are so many to choose from... Bob S > On May 18, 2017, at 13:08 , Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > > Heh. The nice thing about linux is there are so many to choose from... > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com From dunbarx at aol.com Thu May 18 16:30:44 2017 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx) Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 13:30:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Sort so that "Hello" is always before "hello" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1495139444009-4714992.post@n4.nabble.com> The "caseSensitive" is a global property. It can be set like any other. if you do so before the "sort" command, the capital first letters precede the lower case. Craig -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Sort-so-that-Hello-is-always-before-hello-tp4714983p4714992.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu May 18 16:47:57 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 20:47:57 +0000 Subject: Sort so that "Hello" is always before "hello" In-Reply-To: <1495139444009-4714992.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1495139444009-4714992.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: Oh right. I forgot about that. Still, I like my way better. ;-) Bob S > On May 18, 2017, at 13:30 , dunbarx via use-livecode wrote: > > The "caseSensitive" is a global property. It can be set like any other. if > you do so before the "sort" command, the capital first letters precede the > lower case. > > Craig From kaveh at rivervalleytechnologies.com Thu May 18 17:13:03 2017 From: kaveh at rivervalleytechnologies.com (Kaveh Bazargan) Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 22:13:03 +0100 Subject: Sort so that "Hello" is always before "hello" In-Reply-To: <98f07999-6a47-66d7-6013-e2cf4000c421@pdslabs.net> References: <98f07999-6a47-66d7-6013-e2cf4000c421@pdslabs.net> Message-ID: Thanks Phil That works in the case I mentioned, but with different letters, All upper case chars come to top, so I get: Goodbye Hello goodbye hello What I need is Goodbye goodbye Hello hello On 18 May 2017 at 18:19, Phil Davis via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > "set the caseSensitive to true" before sorting. > > Phil Davis > > > > On 5/18/17 10:10 AM, Kaveh Bazargan via use-livecode wrote: > >> I have the following lines when a list of words is sorted: >> >> Hello >> hello >> Hello >> hello >> hello >> >> so there is no hierarchy between upper and lower case chars. I want caps >> to >> go first. How do i do that pls? >> >> > -- > Phil Davis > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Kaveh Bazargan Director River Valley Technologies @kaveh1000 +44 7771 824 111 www.rivervalleytechnologies.com From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu May 18 17:15:56 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 21:15:56 +0000 Subject: Sort so that "Hello" is always before "hello" In-Reply-To: References: <98f07999-6a47-66d7-6013-e2cf4000c421@pdslabs.net> Message-ID: <33D6CCDF-F4FB-4FA9-BDF3-25E4B5F74DDF@iotecdigital.com> Then that is not a sort! Bob S > On May 18, 2017, at 14:13 , Kaveh Bazargan via use-livecode wrote: > > Thanks Phil > > That works in the case I mentioned, but with different letters, All upper > case chars come to top, so I get: > > Goodbye > Hello > goodbye > hello > > What I need is > > Goodbye > goodbye > Hello > hello > > > On 18 May 2017 at 18:19, Phil Davis via use-livecode < From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu May 18 17:20:44 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 21:20:44 +0000 Subject: Sort so that "Hello" is always before "hello" In-Reply-To: <33D6CCDF-F4FB-4FA9-BDF3-25E4B5F74DDF@iotecdigital.com> References: <98f07999-6a47-66d7-6013-e2cf4000c421@pdslabs.net> <33D6CCDF-F4FB-4FA9-BDF3-25E4B5F74DDF@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: What you are wanting to do is a recursive function that sorts within each word. If the first character is all you care about, it would be easy enought to code, but if *every* character comes into play, the problem becomes grossly complex. This isn't a sort problem. It's a filing order problem. Bob S > On May 18, 2017, at 14:15 , Bob Sneidar wrote: > > Then that is not a sort! > > Bob S > > >> On May 18, 2017, at 14:13 , Kaveh Bazargan via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Thanks Phil >> >> That works in the case I mentioned, but with different letters, All upper >> case chars come to top, so I get: >> >> Goodbye >> Hello >> goodbye >> hello >> >> What I need is >> >> Goodbye >> goodbye >> Hello >> hello >> >> >> On 18 May 2017 at 18:19, Phil Davis via use-livecode < > From hh at hyperhh.de Thu May 18 17:28:54 2017 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 23:28:54 +0200 Subject: Sort so that "Hello" is always before "hello" Message-ID: You want a sort with co-sort: set the casesensitive to true -- secondary sort: sort myContainer set the casesensitive to false -- primary sort: sort myContainer From andre at andregarzia.com Thu May 18 17:40:55 2017 From: andre at andregarzia.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 18:40:55 -0300 Subject: User friendly functions to replace MySQL queries? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Friends, I have fixed the page for the library http://andregarzia.com/en/projects/dblib. I am also using github to track development now and moved all the data to a repository linked on that page. The library continues to be dual-licensed, GPL or Commercial, depending on your needs. I have just made a new release tagged v1.18 that moves from binary stacks to plain-text stacks. New features will be added shortly. Previous customers should be receiving an automated update email from sendowl with a link. Cheers andre On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 3:41 PM, Andre Garzia wrote: > Aloha Friends, > > I have been away for a while but I am about to make some cool > announcements today. I will be releasing some updates in the next few days > for all libraries including this one. Also re-uploading them to my site. > > om om > andre > > On Mon, May 8, 2017 at 1:30 PM, Kaveh Bazargan via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> Sounds great. Yes please Bob... >> >> On 8 May 2017 at 16:21, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >> > sqlYoga is awesome. The learning curve is a bit steep at first, but once >> > you get it, it's great. I wrote functions and a database setup interface >> > that makes it all fairly transparent to use. I can share if you like. >> > >> > Bob S >> > >> > >> > > On May 7, 2017, at 13:55 , Kaveh Bazargan via use-livecode < >> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> > > >> > > Hi all >> > > >> > > Writing MySQL queries using LiveCode is a bit painful, so I thought of >> > > writing some higher level functions to produce the queries, a bit like >> > > these from Ken Ray: >> > > >> > > http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/livecode/tips/data005.htm >> > > >> > > But before I start I wonder if anyone else has done these. >> > > >> > > I know Andr? Garcia wrote a big package, but his site seems down: >> > > >> > > http://www.andregarzia.com/page/revspark >> > > >> > > Any pointers please? >> > > >> > > -- >> > > Kaveh Bazargan >> > > Director >> > > River Valley Technologies >> > > @kaveh1000 >> > > +44 7771 824 111 >> > > www.rivervalleytechnologies.com >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > use-livecode mailing list >> > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> > subscription preferences: >> > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > use-livecode mailing list >> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> > subscription preferences: >> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> Kaveh Bazargan >> Director >> River Valley Technologies >> @kaveh1000 >> +44 7771 824 111 >> www.rivervalleytechnologies.com >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > > -- > http://www.andregarzia.com -- All We Do Is Code. > http://fon.nu -- minimalist url shortening service. > -- http://www.andregarzia.com -- All We Do Is Code. http://fon.nu -- minimalist url shortening service. From hh at hyperhh.de Thu May 18 17:43:42 2017 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 23:43:42 +0200 Subject: Sort so that "Hello" is always before "hello" Message-ID: <04D1C334-98BD-458E-8BAD-127218DF8C4C@hyperhh.de> > Kaveh B. wrote: > I have the following lines when a list of words is sorted: Hello > hello Hello hello hello so there is no hierarchy between upper and > lower case chars. I want caps to go first. How do i do that pls? Let me explain a bit more. You want a sort with co-sort. LC allows this because it's sort is stable: The secondary sort or 'co-sort' has to be done before the sort. It sets the sort order for the case that chunks in the following primary sort function. Here are first all upper case chunks sorted before the lower case chunks. Then, with casesensitive false, LC doesn't change the sort order for chunks that are equal in the current sort function. on mouseUp set the casesensitive to true -- secondary sort: sort myContainer set the casesensitive to false -- primary sort: sort myContainer on mouseUp For example Hello hello hello hallo Hallo Guest guest Guest becomes Guest Guest guest Hallo hallo Hello hello hello From dochawk at gmail.com Thu May 18 17:50:22 2017 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 14:50:22 -0700 Subject: Sort so that "Hello" is always before "hello" In-Reply-To: References: <98f07999-6a47-66d7-6013-e2cf4000c421@pdslabs.net> <33D6CCDF-F4FB-4FA9-BDF3-25E4B5F74DDF@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 2:20 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > What you are wanting to do is a recursive function that sorts within each > word. If the first character is all you care about, it would be easy > enought to code, but if *every* character comes into play, the problem > becomes grossly complex. This isn't a sort problem. It's a filing order > problem so sort the lines of mycontainer by mysort of each where mysort is a function previously defined. Or, perhaps more creatively repeat for each line theLin in theData put theLin into arry[mysort(theLin) end repeat put the keys of arry into srtVals sort lines of srtVals repeat for each line theLin in srtVals put arry[theLin] & cr after newData end repeat where mysort() simply rearranges the characters into order AaBb etc. (so "A" maps to "a", "a" maps to "b", and so forth, leaving the rest of the ascii intact. Or perhaps it could remap the symbols & numbers to preference, too. There are something like 95! possible mappings . . . -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From dochawk at gmail.com Thu May 18 17:55:24 2017 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 14:55:24 -0700 Subject: Sort so that "Hello" is always before "hello" In-Reply-To: <04D1C334-98BD-458E-8BAD-127218DF8C4C@hyperhh.de> References: <04D1C334-98BD-458E-8BAD-127218DF8C4C@hyperhh.de> Message-ID: On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 2:43 PM, hh via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > on mouseUp > set the casesensitive to true -- secondary sort: > sort myContainer > set the casesensitive to false -- primary sort: > sort myContainer > on mouseUp > Now *that* is clever. At first I read you as having a slew of containers, which led to the possibility of something like sort lines of theData by word 1 of each & (lower(char 1 of each) <> upper(char 1 of each)) But I don't think I can use multiple each's like that, can I? -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From kaveh at rivervalleytechnologies.com Thu May 18 18:23:30 2017 From: kaveh at rivervalleytechnologies.com (Kaveh Bazargan) Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 23:23:30 +0100 Subject: Sort so that "Hello" is always before "hello" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Brilliant, thank you. I have tried to fall out of love with LiveCode but it is hard! I used HyperCard since pre-release version ;-) On 18 May 2017 at 22:28, hh via use-livecode wrote: > You want a sort with co-sort: > > set the casesensitive to true -- secondary sort: > sort myContainer > set the casesensitive to false -- primary sort: > sort myContainer > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Kaveh Bazargan Director River Valley Technologies @kaveh1000 +44 7771 824 111 www.rivervalleytechnologies.com From hh at hyperhh.de Thu May 18 18:29:46 2017 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Fri, 19 May 2017 00:29:46 +0200 Subject: Sort so that "Hello" is always before "hello" Message-ID: <81DFEAC2-F479-43D9-B8C0-22ED87A43121@hyperhh.de> > Richard E.H. wrote: > ... the possibility of something like > > sort lines of theData by word 1 of each & \ > (lower(char 1 of each) <> upper(char 1 of each)) > > But I don't think I can use multiple each's like that, can I? Your approach is to use a sort function, a powerful tool. The multiple "each" are no problem. "Each" points simply to the current line. But because lower(a-zA-Z) is _always_ not equal to upper(a-zA-Z) you mean probably set the casesensitive to false -- is default, just to be clear here sort theData by each & \ ( charToNum(char 1 of each) <> charToNum(lower(char 1 of each)) ) Then you have (each & "false") if char 1 of each is an upper case what comes in the ascending order before (each & "true"). [But this will be, TMHO, usually a bit slower than multiple sorts]. From johnpatten at me.com Thu May 18 18:26:24 2017 From: johnpatten at me.com (JOHN PATTEN) Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 15:26:24 -0700 Subject: Snaptshot of Browser Widget in iOS? Message-ID: <05D6FE7C-1685-46CE-82B1-05D2B4193963@me.com> Hi All! I am trying to lay some objects (text fields, graphics, etc.) over a browser widget. I am essentially just taking a screen capture and then layering the objects on top of the image. Here is my script: on mouseUp lock screen put the rect of current stack into tCoord set the width of image 1 to the width of current stack set the height of image 1 to the height of current stack set the topleft of image 1 to 0,0 export snapshot from rect tCoord to file specialFolderPath("documents") & "File1.png" set the visible of widget "browser" to false set the filename of image id 1008 to "" wait 2 set the filename of image id 1008 to SpecialFolderPath("documents") & "File1.png" -- I believe i needed the three previous lines to get this to work for some reason??? show image id 1008 with visual effect dissolve slowly unlock screen end mouseUp This works fine on my Mac, but when I test it in the iOS simulator it does not work. Is it not possible to take a snapshot of the browser widget in iOS? Thank you! John Patten SUSD From hh at hyperhh.de Thu May 18 18:46:31 2017 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Fri, 19 May 2017 00:46:31 +0200 Subject: Sort so that "Hello" is always before "hello" Message-ID: <8AC71141-DE6B-4B85-A73F-F896E5F16095@hyperhh.de> Correction, sorry. > I wrote: > But because lower(a-zA-Z) is _always_ not equal to upper(a-zA-Z) ... This handles only one case of casesensitivity. Should read: If the casesensitive is true then lower(a-zA-Z) is _always_ not equal to upper(a-zA-Z) If the casesensitive is false then lower(a-zA-Z) is _always_ equal to upper(a-zA-Z) [So this gives no further distinction for sorting.] From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu May 18 19:08:13 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 16:08:13 -0700 Subject: browser print? Message-ID: <047b8725-6012-fa96-a5a2-5c72a86d7a27@fourthworld.com> Does the browser widget support printing like the older revBrowser external did? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From hh at hyperhh.de Thu May 18 19:47:04 2017 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Fri, 19 May 2017 01:47:04 +0200 Subject: browser print? Message-ID: > Richard G. wrote: > Does the browser widget support printing like the older revBrowser > external did? No. AFAIK it doesn't support "window.print()", had no success here. But you can use javascript to get the window's content or part of it (e.g. container by Id) as a rendered image, not a screenshot, and then print via LC Script. From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu May 18 19:53:18 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 16:53:18 -0700 Subject: browser print? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7f4ee5bd-9c1d-b4b2-da74-16a60639caa3@fourthworld.com> hh wrote: >> Richard G. wrote: >> Does the browser widget support printing like the older revBrowser >> external did? > > No. AFAIK it doesn't support "window.print()", had no success here. > > But you can use javascript to get the window's content or part of it > (e.g. container by Id) as a rendered image, not a screenshot, and then > print via LC Script. Thanks, but you know how bitmaps are. I'd really like crisp print-res output if I can. The older revBrowser external might be an option, but alas no Linux with that. Dear dev team: any plans to bring the browser widget into feature parity with revBrowser? In addition to printing there were some other goodies like built-in screenshots and text resizing that are very useful. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From jonathandlynch at gmail.com Thu May 18 20:13:48 2017 From: jonathandlynch at gmail.com (jonathandlynch at gmail.com) Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 20:13:48 -0400 Subject: Snaptshot of Browser Widget in iOS? In-Reply-To: <05D6FE7C-1685-46CE-82B1-05D2B4193963@me.com> References: <05D6FE7C-1685-46CE-82B1-05D2B4193963@me.com> Message-ID: <6A6D2239-9191-463B-BF3F-4729168ECE8E@gmail.com> There are some JavaScript libraries that can convert an HTML page into an image (not just a canvas object) - that could be your backup if all else fails. Sent from my iPhone > On May 18, 2017, at 6:26 PM, JOHN PATTEN via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi All! > > I am trying to lay some objects (text fields, graphics, etc.) over a browser widget. I am essentially just taking a screen capture and then layering the objects on top of the image. Here is my script: > > on mouseUp > lock screen > put the rect of current stack into tCoord > > set the width of image 1 to the width of current stack > set the height of image 1 to the height of current stack > set the topleft of image 1 to 0,0 > export snapshot from rect tCoord to file specialFolderPath("documents") & "File1.png" > set the visible of widget "browser" to false > set the filename of image id 1008 to "" > wait 2 > set the filename of image id 1008 to SpecialFolderPath("documents") & "File1.png" > -- I believe i needed the three previous lines to get this to work for some reason??? > show image id 1008 with visual effect dissolve slowly > unlock screen > > end mouseUp > > > This works fine on my Mac, but when I test it in the iOS simulator it does not work. Is it not possible to take a snapshot of the browser widget in iOS? > > Thank you! > > John Patten > SUSD > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From capellan2000 at gmail.com Thu May 18 20:13:53 2017 From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada) Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 20:13:53 -0400 Subject: English Like? Message-ID: on Thu May 18 2017, William Prothero wrote: > I think that comments by relative newbies, who don?t have > the same experience with LC are very important. > I?ve mentioned several times that some of the tutorials > and lessons can miss things that the author takes for > granted. I?m particularly sensitive to this because of > my long experience teaching college students having > them use my software. In my personal experience, most teachers and students just want that every computer program looks and behave like Microsoft Word... :-( > It is very difficult for the developer of the software > to avoid making assumptions based on experience and > it takes special attention. One organization I worked > with did eye-tracking with naive users to validate their > web applications. I don?t think that?s needed for livecode, > but more attention to this, when publishing teaching > documents would be very helpful. Probably, the answer is HyperText... In every tutorial or Livecode Lesson, please include hypertext links or modal pop ups that explain most programming concepts and LiveCode Script (LCS) keywords. Then, check which links are most visited and include that information in other tutorials. This information is really valuable for creating new tutorials. > This was a very significant problem with the first course > on using LC to make apps that came with the iPhone. > I ended up dropping out because I was wasting so much of > my time trying to figure out bugs and what should have been > in the tutorial. These resources may be the first time a > person really gets into Livecode and the kinds of difficulties > I encountered could be very off-putting to a new user. Ideally, every course or lesson should start with a downloadable stack or executable. In this way, you would know beforehand if this code will run in your own setup... for example: All multimedia tutorials are useless in Linux, because still we could not play sounds or movies. > Anyway, I encourage the authors of tutorial software > to pay significant attention to learning resources > they put out for the public to make sure the learning > goes smoothly. An indispensable feature for 21st century tutorials is the ability for changing content to match users personal learning's style. Al From hh at hyperhh.de Thu May 18 20:15:34 2017 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Fri, 19 May 2017 02:15:34 +0200 Subject: browser print? Message-ID: > RG wrote: > Thanks, but you know how bitmaps are. I'd really like crisp print-res > output if I can. The browser widget isn't rendering at 300 dpi or more ... You need something like Adobe Acrobat (which does the HTML2PDF for you) for getting web pages as true PDF. And simply printing to PDF doesn't mean you get rid of bitmaps. From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu May 18 20:30:39 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 17:30:39 -0700 Subject: browser print? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: hh wrote: >> RG wrote: >> Thanks, but you know how bitmaps are. I'd really like crisp print-res >> output if I can. > > The browser widget isn't rendering at 300 dpi or more ... > You need something like Adobe Acrobat (which does the HTML2PDF for > you) for getting web pages as true PDF. > And simply printing to PDF doesn't mean you get rid of bitmaps. Depends on the renderer. And of course elements that are inherently bitmaps, like images, can only print at the resolution they have. But modern text is vector, and it's text I'm most interested in for crispness. Most browsers will render at device resolution, so on screen that's the screen resolution but when printing it's much higher. I believe revBrowser tapped into that browser printing method for that command. It would be nice if the same method were available for the browser widget. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ahsoftware at sonic.net Thu May 18 21:08:07 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 18:08:07 -0700 Subject: Writing Extensions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0f053ac9-6875-6016-4dcc-a3ce7635a76a@sonic.net> On 05/18/2017 12:59 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: >> backported to LCS. I appreciate the team's reticence to make syntax >> changes to the core xtalk language, but even as a long-time C >> programmer, >> > > I wouldn't say we have a 'reticence' to make syntax changes but it requires > a great deal more care than in LCB for several reasons: Heh. OK - wrong choice of word then. I'd say rather that I appreciate the team's conservative approach to making syntax changes (although "this me" still seems wrong to me. Or at least to this me, with a nod to PKD). -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From ahsoftware at sonic.net Thu May 18 21:09:58 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 18:09:58 -0700 Subject: User friendly functions to replace MySQL queries? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <25c41afb-f80b-9fad-fa97-e7f09990a271@sonic.net> On 05/18/2017 11:41 AM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode wrote: > Aloha Friends, > > I have been away for a while... I believe we have a winner in the understatement of the week contest. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu May 18 22:02:24 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 21:02:24 -0500 Subject: Writing Extensions In-Reply-To: <0f053ac9-6875-6016-4dcc-a3ce7635a76a@sonic.net> References: <0f053ac9-6875-6016-4dcc-a3ce7635a76a@sonic.net> Message-ID: <5f948e33-685a-aa85-cae4-fb852c8948a4@hyperactivesw.com> On 5/18/17 8:08 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > "this me" still seems wrong to me. Or at least to this me I still chuckle about that. But I had the occasion to need it once and for the life of me, I couldn't think of a better definition. It fits all the syntax parameters. So now I see it as an adorable addition to the language. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From andre at andregarzia.com Thu May 18 22:04:05 2017 From: andre at andregarzia.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 23:04:05 -0300 Subject: User friendly functions to replace MySQL queries? In-Reply-To: <25c41afb-f80b-9fad-fa97-e7f09990a271@sonic.net> References: <25c41afb-f80b-9fad-fa97-e7f09990a271@sonic.net> Message-ID: auhaauhahuuhahauauhahu yes, it has been how long? years? :-P On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 10:09 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On 05/18/2017 11:41 AM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode wrote: > >> Aloha Friends, >> >> I have been away for a while... >> > > I believe we have a winner in the understatement of the week contest. > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- http://www.andregarzia.com -- All We Do Is Code. http://fon.nu -- minimalist url shortening service. From capellan2000 at gmail.com Thu May 18 22:14:23 2017 From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada) Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 22:14:23 -0400 Subject: Writing Extensions Message-ID: Now that we are talking about widgets and extensions, many thanks again Mark Wieder for updating Peter Thirkell multicolor svg widget. Just for curiosity, Could you write a blog entry about your process of updating this widget? Maybe others would find this useful to update their own widgets. If you have time, Could you compile this same widget for LCB of LC 8.1.3? I am curious to learn if deploying a widget for both LC8 and LC9 is too difficult or just requires some simple changes. Al From andre at andregarzia.com Thu May 18 22:33:29 2017 From: andre at andregarzia.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 23:33:29 -0300 Subject: Seeking recommendations / suggestions for use of library stacks. In-Reply-To: <1494934460190-4714910.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <3ddf506a-fc2d-db68-c72a-566ffd432431@tweedly.net> <021bde96-9a4c-3a44-146d-183caa234b6f@hyperactivesw.com> <7ab39445-92d2-d106-5cd7-9375c0243f20@tweedly.net> <1494934460190-4714910.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: I usually follow Alis approach. I have a separate initialization handler which I can call repeatedly if needed. The librarystack call just call it once but if needed I can call it from the messagebox as well. On the topic of libraries, it is good to follow a "functional programming" approach where you try not to rely on script local and global variables. If you library functions need nothing but their own parameters to work on, it becomes easier to test them and calling them over and over seldon generate side effects. It is way easier to test (and debug) a function that doesn't touch anything outside of its own script (as in it processes data and return data but doesn't cause changes outside itself). On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 8:34 AM, pink via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > what about putting the process into the library stack files themselves? > > For example, when I use my CouchDB library I also load fastJSON: > > on libraryStack > if "couchDBLib" is not among the lines stacksInUse then start using > stack "couchDBLib" > if "fastJSONlib" is not among the lines stacksInUse then start using > stack "fastJSONlib" > end libraryStack > > on releaseStack > if "couchDBLib" is among the lines stacksInUse then stop using stack > "couchDBLib" > if "fastJSONlib" is among the lines stacksInUse then stop using stack > "fastJSONlib" > end releaseStack > > note that using "is among" and "is not among" is not optional otherwise you > end up in an infinite loop > > > > ----- > --- > Greg (pink) Miller > mad, pink and dangerous to code > -- > View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution. > 278305.n4.nabble.com/Seeking-recommendations-suggestions- > for-use-of-library-stacks-tp4714836p4714910.html > Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- http://www.andregarzia.com -- All We Do Is Code. http://fon.nu -- minimalist url shortening service. From andre at andregarzia.com Thu May 18 22:33:29 2017 From: andre at andregarzia.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 23:33:29 -0300 Subject: Seeking recommendations / suggestions for use of library stacks. In-Reply-To: <1494934460190-4714910.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <3ddf506a-fc2d-db68-c72a-566ffd432431@tweedly.net> <021bde96-9a4c-3a44-146d-183caa234b6f@hyperactivesw.com> <7ab39445-92d2-d106-5cd7-9375c0243f20@tweedly.net> <1494934460190-4714910.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: I usually follow Alis approach. I have a separate initialization handler which I can call repeatedly if needed. The librarystack call just call it once but if needed I can call it from the messagebox as well. On the topic of libraries, it is good to follow a "functional programming" approach where you try not to rely on script local and global variables. If you library functions need nothing but their own parameters to work on, it becomes easier to test them and calling them over and over seldon generate side effects. It is way easier to test (and debug) a function that doesn't touch anything outside of its own script (as in it processes data and return data but doesn't cause changes outside itself). On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 8:34 AM, pink via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > what about putting the process into the library stack files themselves? > > For example, when I use my CouchDB library I also load fastJSON: > > on libraryStack > if "couchDBLib" is not among the lines stacksInUse then start using > stack "couchDBLib" > if "fastJSONlib" is not among the lines stacksInUse then start using > stack "fastJSONlib" > end libraryStack > > on releaseStack > if "couchDBLib" is among the lines stacksInUse then stop using stack > "couchDBLib" > if "fastJSONlib" is among the lines stacksInUse then stop using stack > "fastJSONlib" > end releaseStack > > note that using "is among" and "is not among" is not optional otherwise you > end up in an infinite loop > > > > ----- > --- > Greg (pink) Miller > mad, pink and dangerous to code > -- > View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution. > 278305.n4.nabble.com/Seeking-recommendations-suggestions- > for-use-of-library-stacks-tp4714836p4714910.html > Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- http://www.andregarzia.com -- All We Do Is Code. http://fon.nu -- minimalist url shortening service. From colinholgate at gmail.com Thu May 18 22:39:14 2017 From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate) Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 19:39:14 -0700 Subject: news about the new Google Play policy Message-ID: <4C5F4C0C-87DC-4029-B415-6A3267806136@gmail.com> At Google I/O they have one building which is called Office Hours, and in there you can queue up and get to ask Google team members any questions you have. Most teams are represented, with an hour for each session. One of the teams there wasn?t even on the schedule, but I had been pointed to them by someone else. The mystery team was the Google Play Policy team. So I went and asked some questions. It?s down to chance who you will get, but I happened to get the person is the manager of the team that does app reviews and rejections, so certainly the right person to speak to! I asked about whether downloaded images would be allowed under the new policy, he thought that would be no problem, as its static data. Without naming the tool, I described how a LiveCode app might download new scripts, and how it wasn?t compiled code, but it just wasn?t JavaScript. He seemed think that would be ok. I also asked if it would be possible for LiveCode to get in touch to explain to someone on his team what the nature of LiveCode apps is, in the hope that the review team would have LiveCode on a list somewhere, as being a tool that would be allowed to download scripts after the app was already in the store. So, if anyone at LiveCode would be interest in getting in touch with Google, to give a rough explanation about how scripts might be used, I have the main man?s email address. It may well be that he would put you touch with the right person on his team, rather than handle it on his own. Let me know what you think. From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu May 18 22:46:33 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 21:46:33 -0500 Subject: news about the new Google Play policy In-Reply-To: <4C5F4C0C-87DC-4029-B415-6A3267806136@gmail.com> References: <4C5F4C0C-87DC-4029-B415-6A3267806136@gmail.com> Message-ID: Colin, you are an incredibly handy person to know. :) What a stroke of luck that you were there exactly when the new policy changes were released. Thank you. On 5/18/17 9:39 PM, Colin Holgate via use-livecode wrote: > At Google I/O they have one building which is called Office Hours, and in there you can queue up and get to ask Google team members any questions you have. Most teams are represented, with an hour for each session. > > One of the teams there wasn?t even on the schedule, but I had been pointed to them by someone else. The mystery team was the Google Play Policy team. So I went and asked some questions. > > It?s down to chance who you will get, but I happened to get the person is the manager of the team that does app reviews and rejections, so certainly the right person to speak to! > > I asked about whether downloaded images would be allowed under the new policy, he thought that would be no problem, as its static data. Without naming the tool, I described how a LiveCode app might download new scripts, and how it wasn?t compiled code, but it just wasn?t JavaScript. He seemed think that would be ok. > > I also asked if it would be possible for LiveCode to get in touch to explain to someone on his team what the nature of LiveCode apps is, in the hope that the review team would have LiveCode on a list somewhere, as being a tool that would be allowed to download scripts after the app was already in the store. > > So, if anyone at LiveCode would be interest in getting in touch with Google, to give a rough explanation about how scripts might be used, I have the main man?s email address. It may well be that he would put you touch with the right person on his team, rather than handle it on his own. > > Let me know what you think. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Thu May 18 22:48:01 2017 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Fri, 19 May 2017 12:48:01 +1000 Subject: WannaCry [OT] In-Reply-To: <5df11c345af3bd65b76508a3b25d74bc@livecode.com> References: <84dd251e-4a61-3555-923d-fdeb0765d74d@fourthworld.com> <5df11c345af3bd65b76508a3b25d74bc@livecode.com> Message-ID: On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 6:46 PM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: > > I'd at least hope that 'smart cars' software is engineered to a much > higher standard than other places: > Well it may not even be 'smart' cars, even just modern cars may have problems depending on circumstances. This article also raises an interesting issue with regard to Uber and/or similar: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/aug/12/hack-car-brakes-sms-text From ahsoftware at sonic.net Thu May 18 23:56:42 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 20:56:42 -0700 Subject: news about the new Google Play policy In-Reply-To: References: <4C5F4C0C-87DC-4029-B415-6A3267806136@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2b6362d1-677c-e72e-8350-430d0cda28d4@sonic.net> On 05/18/2017 07:46 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > Colin, you are an incredibly handy person to know. :) What a stroke of > luck that you were there exactly when the new policy changes were released. Hmmm. Coincidence? I think not. Colin seems to be a magnet for these things. He's like a lightning rod - you can feel the electricity crackle, and then Zap! there's just the person you need to talk with or Zap! there's an unannounced product release or Zap! there's the singularity... -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From capellan2000 at gmail.com Fri May 19 00:06:45 2017 From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada) Date: Fri, 19 May 2017 00:06:45 -0400 Subject: news about the new Google Play policy Message-ID: Singularity? Maybe yes, maybe no, but I am not going to say it was Aliens... :-) http://images.memes.com/meme/30936.jpg From ahsoftware at sonic.net Fri May 19 00:23:37 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 21:23:37 -0700 Subject: Writing Extensions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <094526dc-005e-6184-fb1e-06f7e8eff405@sonic.net> On 05/18/2017 07:14 PM, Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode wrote: > Now that we are talking about widgets and extensions, many thanks again > Mark Wieder for updating Peter Thirkell multicolor svg widget. > > Just for curiosity, Could you write a blog entry about your process of > updating this widget? Maybe others would find this useful to update their > own widgets. I'll think about it, but I'm probably the wrong person to write up the process of creating/modifying widgets at this point. But I'd love to see Peter write up the process he went through. All I did was add some flexibility to the xml parsing (which in LCB ends up working with char offsets and is ridiculously ugly, fragile, and error-prone) and allowing hex representations of color specifications. > > If you have time, Could you compile this same widget for LCB of LC 8.1.3? > I am curious to learn if deploying a widget for both LC8 and LC9 is too > difficult or just requires some simple changes. Here's a link to the folder for the LC8.1.3 version - no changes to the source required, but the Extension Builder popped up a few extraneous windows during the process. I just canceled out of them and the widget seems to work. I had to move it out of my Extensions folder after testing it since having both the LC8 and LC9 versions in places messes things up. This changing binary format thing is a pain. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From admin at FlexibleLearning.com Fri May 19 03:07:21 2017 From: admin at FlexibleLearning.com (FlexibleLearning.com) Date: Fri, 19 May 2017 08:07:21 +0100 Subject: URGENT: Mixed orientation printing to PDF Message-ID: <008e01d2d06e$901d3960$b057ac20$@FlexibleLearning.com> I have a 5.02 legacy stack that prints A4 pages to PDF using "open printing to pdf". The documentation says that the printPaperSize must be set before calling open printing, suggesting that changes to the printPaperSize after "open printing" are not supported (I tried, and it seems so). I can successfully set the printPaperSize to 595,842 for Portrait or 842,595 for Landscape. printPaperOrientation seems redundant and also cannot be changed after initialisation. So is it possible to print mixed portrait and landscape pages in the same PDF? Help! I only get digests, so please email me direct! Hugh Senior FLCo From mark at livecode.com Fri May 19 03:18:43 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Fri, 19 May 2017 09:18:43 +0200 Subject: Writing Extensions In-Reply-To: <0f053ac9-6875-6016-4dcc-a3ce7635a76a@sonic.net> References: <0f053ac9-6875-6016-4dcc-a3ce7635a76a@sonic.net> Message-ID: On 2017-05-19 03:08, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > On 05/18/2017 12:59 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: >>> backported to LCS. I appreciate the team's reticence to make syntax >>> changes to the core xtalk language, but even as a long-time C >>> programmer, >>> > >> >> I wouldn't say we have a 'reticence' to make syntax changes but it >> requires >> a great deal more care than in LCB for several reasons: > > Heh. OK - wrong choice of word then. I'd say rather that I appreciate > the team's conservative approach to making syntax changes (although > "this me" still seems wrong to me. Or at least to this me, with a nod > to PKD). Referring to yourself as "this me"... Does that mean you are just a link in a longer behavior chain then, Mark? ;) -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mark at livecode.com Fri May 19 03:32:10 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Fri, 19 May 2017 09:32:10 +0200 Subject: Writing Extensions In-Reply-To: <4505754c-c824-fc79-a3aa-26395d55292b@sonic.net> References: <9e6475242e756c394b1e6e4d2522253e@livecode.com> <205c47ba-8e2c-11e0-c0a8-3f6678b1f7a5@sonic.net> <4505754c-c824-fc79-a3aa-26395d55292b@sonic.net> Message-ID: On 2017-05-18 22:08, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > On 05/18/2017 10:57 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: > Yes, but that's comparing two different things. I'm concerned about > the differing binary formats, not the source compatibility. I'm stuck > if I want to distribute an easy-to-use extension (widget or library) > for others to use. My alternative is to distribute the source and say > "here you go... compile and install it yourself. And remember to do > that again when the next major version of LC comes out or it won't > work any more." I was more just trying to explain the current situation, for both source and binary compatibility. > I *don't* think we're doing badly in the realm of source-code > compatibility. I never intended to imply that. Sorry if I gave that > impression. I was talking about the LCB ecosystem generally in comparison to Rust / Swift / number of engineers they have working on those projects / time it took them to get them to a release worthy state :) > To be fair about your comparisons, Rust only reached 1.0.0 stage two > years ago. My statement there was more about that fact that given all > the hoopla that accompanied the announcement of LCB, extensions, and > the Way Forward, the state of the resources and environment for > extension development seems pretty fragile at this point. Indeed - we did - why wouldn't we? People wouldn't even have looked at them if they didn't and if this stuff is never used it will never reach any sort of maturity (the reality is that programming languages evolve through direct use, rather than by design-in-totality-then-implement). Just like many other open-source projects - most of which start off being 'fragile' in the way you suggest. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mark at livecode.com Fri May 19 03:40:21 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Fri, 19 May 2017 09:40:21 +0200 Subject: Writing Extensions In-Reply-To: <094526dc-005e-6184-fb1e-06f7e8eff405@sonic.net> References: <094526dc-005e-6184-fb1e-06f7e8eff405@sonic.net> Message-ID: <361e42d6a9c51fad99679cb9e12988fe@livecode.com> On 2017-05-19 06:23, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > On 05/18/2017 07:14 PM, Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode wrote: >> Now that we are talking about widgets and extensions, many thanks >> again >> Mark Wieder for updating Peter Thirkell multicolor svg widget. >> >> Just for curiosity, Could you write a blog entry about your process of >> updating this widget? Maybe others would find this useful to update >> their >> own widgets. > > I'll think about it, but I'm probably the wrong person to write up the > process of creating/modifying widgets at this point. But I'd love to > see Peter write up the process he went through. All I did was add some > flexibility to the xml parsing (which in LCB ends up working with char > offsets and is ridiculously ugly, fragile, and error-prone) and > allowing hex representations of color specifications. If we are honest then parsing XML even with LCS's excellent text chunking isn't necessarily *that* much 'prettier'. XML is quite a complicated format if you want a 100% compliant reader (do we have a 100% compliant XML parser written in LiveCode?) - hence why, in this case, it would probably be better to have a wrapper around a well established XML library in LCB. Why reinvent a wheel which many other people have already decided needs reinventing... (Although, having said that, there is something quite pleasing about this kind of thing being written in the host language - pragmatically though, we're probably better off with readers which are maintained by people who live and breath these import formats - at least when you need the most generality). > I had to move it out of my Extensions folder after testing it since > having both the LC8 and LC9 versions in places messes things up. This > changing binary format thing is a pain. Point taken - it is a pain! However, it won't be like this forever - and obviously the sooner it is stable, the better it is for the ecosystem. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mark at livecode.com Fri May 19 04:10:18 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Fri, 19 May 2017 10:10:18 +0200 Subject: news about the new Google Play policy In-Reply-To: <4C5F4C0C-87DC-4029-B415-6A3267806136@gmail.com> References: <4C5F4C0C-87DC-4029-B415-6A3267806136@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3fb7e634fdcc361cf9b89557f11ee9ff@livecode.com> On 2017-05-19 04:39, Colin Holgate via use-livecode wrote: > Let me know what you think. All I'd really like is a more well-defined policy - that's all that's needed here I think. After all, if one is going to use terms in a policy then it seems wise that those terms be explicitly defined. What Google is trying to do is 100% clear - it is also very easy to state in a completely unambiguous way. e.g. "Apps submitted to the Google Play Store must not download any files which allow the app to access more Android APIs which it could at the point it was submitted to the Google Play Store." This covers all possible cases as far as I can see - and covers cases which their current policy does not (as worded, at least). If you can get an email of someone to whom I can 'whinge' at, then I'll do some suitable 'whinging' ;) Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mark at livecode.com Fri May 19 04:16:05 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Fri, 19 May 2017 10:16:05 +0200 Subject: Writing Extensions In-Reply-To: <4505754c-c824-fc79-a3aa-26395d55292b@sonic.net> References: <9e6475242e756c394b1e6e4d2522253e@livecode.com> <205c47ba-8e2c-11e0-c0a8-3f6678b1f7a5@sonic.net> <4505754c-c824-fc79-a3aa-26395d55292b@sonic.net> Message-ID: <8ae7af1554547e422d01d5e4c94e4142@livecode.com> On 2017-05-18 22:08, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > On 05/18/2017 10:57 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: >> The point is the whole problem can be sufficiently solved quite well >> with better tooling (which we are aware we need to work on); and in >> the >> future can be solved completely using a little bit of cleverness and >> exploiting the way LCB has been implemented. > > Cool. That sounds promising. Indeed, thinking a little more laterally about the problem of binary module compatibility then there are actually two sides here: 1) The community edition side 2) The commercial edition side. In the case of (1), the engine is GPL. This means that any extensions used in community, must be GPL too (or dual-licensed, if it is to be allowed to be used in Commercial). GPL apps need to give access to the source (widgets built with community already include the source). This means that compilation can happen on installation of the widget; there's actually no need for compilation to occur before this point (beyond checking that everything is present in the extension which is needed to compile it). So this would solve the problem in Community. In the case of (2), then we definitely need to do something before commercial widgets become common-place - I agree :) Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From toolbook at kestner.de Fri May 19 04:40:06 2017 From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB) Date: Fri, 19 May 2017 10:40:06 +0200 Subject: which port is beeing used with get URL? Message-ID: <006001d2d07b$84c9acd0$8e5d0670$@kestner.de> Hello, LC6 and 8. Again and again I have customers, where my program doesn't gets an internet connection with standard "put URL foo into res". This happens only at "institutional customers" with "bigger" networks, obviously with proxy servers, firewalls, etc. On "private" PCs I never happen this. The user can setup the proxy credentials in my program, that is ok for some customers. At other customers my program still doesn't gets access to the internet and often the admin of the customer doesn't find the reason what is blocking my program. Usually most firewalls pop up with a request, if they are blocking a new program, but in these cases the firewalls keep silent, so it is hard to find the reason. Am I right, that using "put URL" is a standard http:// protocol via port 8080? Or is there a special port being used by LC? Are there any ideas from your experience, what and how to check for to find the blocking factor in a customer network? Thanks for your experiences Tiemo From mark at livecode.com Fri May 19 05:00:55 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Fri, 19 May 2017 11:00:55 +0200 Subject: which port is beeing used with get =?UTF-8?Q?URL=3F?= In-Reply-To: <006001d2d07b$84c9acd0$8e5d0670$@kestner.de> References: <006001d2d07b$84c9acd0$8e5d0670$@kestner.de> Message-ID: <4ab971b841b6f4ae3410d510a304cee7@livecode.com> On 2017-05-19 10:40, Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode wrote: > Am I right, that using "put URL" is a standard http:// protocol via > port > 8080? Or is there a special port being used by LC? HTTP is port 80 - HTTPS is port 443. LC does not do anything non-standard here (unless you specify, e.g. http://livecode.com:93). > Are there any ideas from your experience, what and how to check for to > find > the blocking factor in a customer network? Right, so - we know there are problems with LiveCode's networking stack communicating in some network environments. However, the problem is that we're not sure what configurations are actually causing the problem. Trevor DeVore has done a lot of work over the years to help improve the internet settings auto-discovery, to make LiveCode much better in this regard; however, things still aren't perfect. If we can find a way to fetch all the info about places which are not letting libURL work, then we can look into making it work... The problem is working out how to collect that information. If anyone has any ideas on this score then that would be most helpful! Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Fri May 19 05:05:10 2017 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe) Date: Fri, 19 May 2017 11:05:10 +0200 Subject: which port is beeing used with get URL? In-Reply-To: <006001d2d07b$84c9acd0$8e5d0670$@kestner.de> References: <006001d2d07b$84c9acd0$8e5d0670$@kestner.de> Message-ID: <730B32A0-7490-4C59-8A1D-47D4E2CE25AA@m-r-d.de> Hi Timo, a firewall setting also might cause this. Many security tools have a app control included which controls the network access of applications. It could be that the LC app is not allowed to do any networking. Can you check with the customer which Antivirus/Firewall software is used? Matthias Matthias Rebbe +49 5741 310000 ?matthiasrebbe.eu ? > Am 19.05.2017 um 10:40 schrieb Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode >: > > Hello, > > LC6 and 8. Again and again I have customers, where my program doesn't gets > an internet connection with standard "put URL foo into res". This happens > only at "institutional customers" with "bigger" networks, obviously with > proxy servers, firewalls, etc. On "private" PCs I never happen this. The > user can setup the proxy credentials in my program, that is ok for some > customers. At other customers my program still doesn't gets access to the > internet and often the admin of the customer doesn't find the reason what is > blocking my program. Usually most firewalls pop up with a request, if they > are blocking a new program, but in these cases the firewalls keep silent, so > it is hard to find the reason. > > > > Am I right, that using "put URL" is a standard http:// protocol via port > 8080? Or is there a special port being used by LC? > > > > Are there any ideas from your experience, what and how to check for to find > the blocking factor in a customer network? > > > > Thanks for your experiences > > Tiemo > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jonathandlynch at gmail.com Fri May 19 05:24:26 2017 From: jonathandlynch at gmail.com (jonathandlynch at gmail.com) Date: Fri, 19 May 2017 05:24:26 -0400 Subject: which port is beeing used with get URL? In-Reply-To: <730B32A0-7490-4C59-8A1D-47D4E2CE25AA@m-r-d.de> References: <006001d2d07b$84c9acd0$8e5d0670$@kestner.de> <730B32A0-7490-4C59-8A1D-47D4E2CE25AA@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: Do tsnet commands hit the same network blocks as put? Sent from my iPhone > On May 19, 2017, at 5:05 AM, Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi Timo, > > a firewall setting also might cause this. Many security tools have a app control included which controls the network access of applications. It could be that the LC app is not allowed to do any networking. Can you check with the customer which Antivirus/Firewall software is used? > > Matthias > > > Matthias Rebbe > +49 5741 310000 > matthiasrebbe.eu > >> Am 19.05.2017 um 10:40 schrieb Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode >: >> >> Hello, >> >> LC6 and 8. Again and again I have customers, where my program doesn't gets >> an internet connection with standard "put URL foo into res". This happens >> only at "institutional customers" with "bigger" networks, obviously with >> proxy servers, firewalls, etc. On "private" PCs I never happen this. The >> user can setup the proxy credentials in my program, that is ok for some >> customers. At other customers my program still doesn't gets access to the >> internet and often the admin of the customer doesn't find the reason what is >> blocking my program. Usually most firewalls pop up with a request, if they >> are blocking a new program, but in these cases the firewalls keep silent, so >> it is hard to find the reason. >> >> >> >> Am I right, that using "put URL" is a standard http:// protocol via port >> 8080? Or is there a special port being used by LC? >> >> >> >> Are there any ideas from your experience, what and how to check for to find >> the blocking factor in a customer network? >> >> >> >> Thanks for your experiences >> >> Tiemo >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From th.douez at gmail.com Fri May 19 07:06:59 2017 From: th.douez at gmail.com (Thierry Douez) Date: Fri, 19 May 2017 13:06:59 +0200 Subject: Sort so that "Hello" is always before "hello" In-Reply-To: <8AC71141-DE6B-4B85-A73F-F896E5F16095@hyperhh.de> References: <8AC71141-DE6B-4B85-A73F-F896E5F16095@hyperhh.de> Message-ID: A slight variation from Hermann's code, working *only* with ASCII: sort lines of T numeric by AaZz_sort( each) function AaZz_sort x get chartonum( char 1 of x) if IT > 96 then return ( IT - 96) * 2 + 1 else return ( IT - 64) * 2 end AaZz_sort I can explain if someone is asking for... and I have no ideas if the double-sort is faster then this one. Thierry ------------------------------------------------ Thierry Douez - sunny-tdz.com sunnYrex - sunnYtext2speech - sunnYperl - sunnYmidi - sunnYmage From toolbook at kestner.de Fri May 19 07:47:51 2017 From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB) Date: Fri, 19 May 2017 13:47:51 +0200 Subject: AW: which port is beeing used with get URL? In-Reply-To: References: <006001d2d07b$84c9acd0$8e5d0670$@kestner.de> <730B32A0-7490-4C59-8A1D-47D4E2CE25AA@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <007a01d2d095$bf6f4290$3e4dc7b0$@kestner.de> There are different firewalls used at different customers. Sometimes, even the admin of the customer has no knowledge or access to the firewalls. E.g. a lot of public schools are routed thru the federal states network of their state and the admin of the school doesn't have access to that network. I didn't tested yet the pure tsnet commands. Perhaps I should create a test program with that. Unfortunately often the admins are very impatient and have no joy in testing different situations. Thanks for your ideas Tiemo -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag von Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode Gesendet: Freitag, 19. Mai 2017 11:24 An: How to use LiveCode Cc: jonathandlynch at gmail.com Betreff: Re: which port is beeing used with get URL? Do tsnet commands hit the same network blocks as put? Sent from my iPhone > On May 19, 2017, at 5:05 AM, Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi Timo, > > a firewall setting also might cause this. Many security tools have a app control included which controls the network access of applications. It could be that the LC app is not allowed to do any networking. Can you check with the customer which Antivirus/Firewall software is used? > > Matthias > > > Matthias Rebbe > +49 5741 310000 > matthiasrebbe.eu > >> Am 19.05.2017 um 10:40 schrieb Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode >: >> >> Hello, >> >> LC6 and 8. Again and again I have customers, where my program doesn't >> gets an internet connection with standard "put URL foo into res". >> This happens only at "institutional customers" with "bigger" >> networks, obviously with proxy servers, firewalls, etc. On "private" >> PCs I never happen this. The user can setup the proxy credentials in >> my program, that is ok for some customers. At other customers my >> program still doesn't gets access to the internet and often the admin >> of the customer doesn't find the reason what is blocking my program. >> Usually most firewalls pop up with a request, if they are blocking a >> new program, but in these cases the firewalls keep silent, so it is hard to find the reason. >> >> >> >> Am I right, that using "put URL" is a standard http:// protocol via >> port 8080? Or is there a special port being used by LC? >> >> >> >> Are there any ideas from your experience, what and how to check for >> to find the blocking factor in a customer network? >> >> >> >> Thanks for your experiences >> >> Tiemo >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From th.douez at gmail.com Fri May 19 07:55:42 2017 From: th.douez at gmail.com (Thierry Douez) Date: Fri, 19 May 2017 13:55:42 +0200 Subject: filter? replace? wildcard? reg exp? help please! In-Reply-To: References: <20c85163-01cf-baec-af46-b725f6bf724d@hyperactivesw.com> <57ced69a-18ee-4d50-55ce-66055b95ffb6@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: > > >> put "1 [A] 2 [B] 3." into tText >> put removeBrackets( tText) >> > > I see that the middle section is omitted with my regex, so I forgot to > make it non-greedy. But I've forgotten how to do that, something about a > question mark, I think? ?Sorry about the delay, we had a thunderstorm which broke all Internet network in our area since last Friday. You can do this in 2 ways: - make your .* non greedy by adding a '?' suffix - or modify your regex this way: "\[ [^\]]*]" which means looking for an open bracket followed by zero to any number of chars which are not a close bracket, and last a close bracket. BTW, no need to escape the last closing bracket; the regex engine is smart enough. PCRE library accepts the 2 forms. HTH, Thierry ? -- ------------------------------------------------ Thierry Douez - sunny-tdz.com sunnYrex - sunnYtext2speech - sunnYperl - sunnYmidi - sunnYmage From toolbook at kestner.de Fri May 19 08:14:17 2017 From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB) Date: Fri, 19 May 2017 14:14:17 +0200 Subject: AW: filter? replace? wildcard? reg exp? help please! In-Reply-To: References: <20c85163-01cf-baec-af46-b725f6bf724d@hyperactivesw.com> <57ced69a-18ee-4d50-55ce-66055b95ffb6@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <009201d2d099$70ec3e30$52c4ba90$@kestner.de> Is there life without internet for one week? - lucky you are connected to the world again! Tiemo -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag von Thierry Douez via use-livecode Gesendet: Freitag, 19. Mai 2017 13:56 An: How to use LiveCode Cc: Thierry Douez Betreff: Re: filter? replace? wildcard? reg exp? help please! > > >> put "1 [A] 2 [B] 3." into tText >> put removeBrackets( tText) >> > > I see that the middle section is omitted with my regex, so I forgot to > make it non-greedy. But I've forgotten how to do that, something about > a question mark, I think? ?Sorry about the delay, we had a thunderstorm which broke all Internet network in our area since last Friday. You can do this in 2 ways: - make your .* non greedy by adding a '?' suffix - or modify your regex this way: "\[ [^\]]*]" which means looking for an open bracket followed by zero to any number of chars which are not a close bracket, and last a close bracket. BTW, no need to escape the last closing bracket; the regex engine is smart enough. PCRE library accepts the 2 forms. HTH, Thierry ? -- ------------------------------------------------ Thierry Douez - sunny-tdz.com sunnYrex - sunnYtext2speech - sunnYperl - sunnYmidi - sunnYmage _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From colinholgate at gmail.com Fri May 19 09:03:58 2017 From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate) Date: Fri, 19 May 2017 06:03:58 -0700 Subject: news about the new Google Play policy In-Reply-To: <3fb7e634fdcc361cf9b89557f11ee9ff@livecode.com> References: <4C5F4C0C-87DC-4029-B415-6A3267806136@gmail.com> <3fb7e634fdcc361cf9b89557f11ee9ff@livecode.com> Message-ID: I will reply to the manager guy and give him your email address. Not even sure what your title is, but I?ll say you?re CTO, Americans know what one of those is! If he let?s me know who it is that will be in touch I?ll give you a heads up. > On May 19, 2017, at 1:10 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: > > On 2017-05-19 04:39, Colin Holgate via use-livecode wrote: >> Let me know what you think. > > All I'd really like is a more well-defined policy - that's all that's > needed here I think. After all, if one is going to use terms in a policy > then it seems wise that those terms be explicitly defined. > > What Google is trying to do is 100% clear - it is also very easy to state > in a completely unambiguous way. e.g. > > "Apps submitted to the Google Play Store must not download any files > which allow the app to access more Android APIs which it could at the > point it was submitted to the Google Play Store." > > This covers all possible cases as far as I can see - and covers cases > which their current policy does not (as worded, at least). > > If you can get an email of someone to whom I can 'whinge' at, then I'll > do some suitable 'whinging' ;) > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > > -- > Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ > LiveCode: Everyone can create apps > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From heather at livecode.com Fri May 19 09:16:11 2017 From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine) Date: Fri, 19 May 2017 14:16:11 +0100 Subject: [Blog] New post for your reading pleasure Message-ID: <9AA99C71-207A-4EC6-92B4-8C79FCBC923B@livecode.com> Dear List Folks, There is a new blog post up with interesting information for you from Kevin: https://livecode.com/livecode-global-our-next-conference-in-your-city/ Enjoy! Warm Regards, Heather p.s. Anyone else completely baffled by the phrase "yak shave"? I'd never heard it before, had to google it. Heather Laine Customer Services Manager LiveCode Ltd www.livecode.com From hh at hyperhh.de Fri May 19 09:44:24 2017 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Fri, 19 May 2017 15:44:24 +0200 Subject: Sort so that "Hello" is always before "hello" Message-ID: > Thierry wrote: > sort lines of T numeric by AaZz_sort( each) > function AaZz_sort x > get chartonum( char 1 of x) > if IT > 96 then return ( IT - 96) * 2 + 1 > else return ( IT - 64) * 2 > end AaZz_sort Hi Thierry, don't you need a second sort as 'primary' sort? sort lines of T numeric by each & AaZz_sort( each) ? sort lines of T Else the container is sorted by the first char of each line only. But your ASCII-number-formula for uppercase/lowercase A-Za-z ordering is really worth to go in a lib! Hermann By the way, my "solution" is the following, that handles uppercase char before lowercase char sorting for each char of the lines. set the casesensitive to true -- secondary sort: sort myContainer set the casesensitive to false -- primary sort: sort myContainer From th.douez at gmail.com Fri May 19 10:09:33 2017 From: th.douez at gmail.com (Thierry Douez) Date: Fri, 19 May 2017 16:09:33 +0200 Subject: Sort so that "Hello" is always before "hello" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: 2017-05-19 15:44 GMT+02:00 hh ?: > Thierry wrote: > > sort lines of T numeric by AaZz_sort( each) > > function AaZz_sort x > > get chartonum( char 1 of x) > > if IT > 96 then return ( IT - 96) * 2 + 1 > > else return ( IT - 64) * 2 > > end AaZz_sort > > > Hi Thierry, > > don't you need a second sort as 'primary' sort? > ?Mmm, no ? I thought that was the question from the OP... misreading :) ? > > sort lines of T numeric by each & AaZz_sort( each) ? > sort lines of T > > Else the container is sorted by the first char of each line only. > ?Yes, you are right, so I rewrite it a bit to be more *readable*: sort lines of T numeric by AaZz_sort(char 1 of each) function AaZz_sort x get chartonum( x) if IT > 96 then return ( IT - 96) * 2 + 1 else return ( IT - 64) * 2 end AaZz_sort ? > But your ASCII-number-formula for uppercase/lowercase A-Za-z > ordering is really worth to go in a lib! > > Hermann > > By the way, my "solution" is the following, that handles uppercase > char before lowercase char sorting for each char of the lines. > > set the casesensitive to true -- secondary sort: > sort myContainer > set the casesensitive to false -- primary sort: > sort myContainer > > ?I'll try to come up with something else later... Thierry? -- ------------------------------------------------ Thierry Douez - sunny-tdz.com sunnYrex - sunnYtext2speech - sunnYperl - sunnYmidi - sunnYmage From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Fri May 19 10:15:57 2017 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Fri, 19 May 2017 10:15:57 -0400 Subject: [Blog] New post for your reading pleasure In-Reply-To: <9AA99C71-207A-4EC6-92B4-8C79FCBC923B@livecode.com> References: <9AA99C71-207A-4EC6-92B4-8C79FCBC923B@livecode.com> Message-ID: I paid up and send in my shirt size, yesterday. Heather's response was "What does 'two bolts' mean?" On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 9:16 AM, Heather Laine via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Dear List Folks, > > There is a new blog post up with interesting information for you from > Kevin: > > https://livecode.com/livecode-global-our-next-conference-in-your-city/ < > https://livecode.com/livecode-global-our-next-conference-in-your-city/> > > Enjoy! > > Warm Regards, > > Heather > > p.s. Anyone else completely baffled by the phrase "yak shave"? I'd never > heard it before, had to google it. > > Heather Laine > Customer Services Manager > LiveCode Ltd > www.livecode.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From th.douez at gmail.com Fri May 19 10:18:42 2017 From: th.douez at gmail.com (Thierry Douez) Date: Fri, 19 May 2017 16:18:42 +0200 Subject: filter? replace? wildcard? reg exp? help please! In-Reply-To: <009201d2d099$70ec3e30$52c4ba90$@kestner.de> References: <20c85163-01cf-baec-af46-b725f6bf724d@hyperactivesw.com> <57ced69a-18ee-4d50-55ce-66055b95ffb6@hyperactivesw.com> <009201d2d099$70ec3e30$52c4ba90$@kestner.de> Message-ID: ? Is there life without internet for one week? - lucky you are connected to the world again! > Tiemo > ?Hallo Tiemo, Except some hurdles with the administration ( sold my old car and bought a new one) plus being insulted by a couple of stressed and egotist people for not answering sooner, I did use this time to clean my garden, did some house construction and enjoyed to talk longer with friends in the city :) But I'll have to work all the week-end now :) Kind regards, Thierry ? > > > >> put "1 [A] 2 [B] 3." into tText > >> put removeBrackets( tText) > >> > > > > I see that the middle section is omitted with my regex, so I forgot to > > make it non-greedy. But I've forgotten how to do that, something about > > a question mark, I think? > > > ?Sorry about the delay, we had a thunderstorm which broke all Internet > network in our area since last Friday. > > You can do this in 2 ways: > > - make your .* non greedy by adding a '?' suffix > > - or modify your regex this way: > > "\[ [^\]]*]" which means looking for an open bracket followed by zero > to any number of chars which are not a close bracket, and last a close > bracket. > BTW, no need to escape the last closing bracket; the regex engine is smart > enough. > > > PCRE library accepts the 2 forms. > > HTH, > > Thierry > ? > -- ------------------------------------------------ Thierry Douez - sunny-tdz.com sunnYrex - sunnYtext2speech - sunnYperl - sunnYmidi - sunnYmage From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri May 19 11:56:51 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 19 May 2017 15:56:51 +0000 Subject: Seeking recommendations / suggestions for use of library stacks. In-Reply-To: References: <3ddf506a-fc2d-db68-c72a-566ffd432431@tweedly.net> <021bde96-9a4c-3a44-146d-183caa234b6f@hyperactivesw.com> <7ab39445-92d2-d106-5cd7-9375c0243f20@tweedly.net> <1494934460190-4714910.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <60FE48AC-D4C4-4D19-B529-378FCB7B2FE2@iotecdigital.com> I would agree, but I have become fond of constants, especially in objects where code is similar but need certain things to be different. For instance I have a button bar which opens for edit, creates new form, deletes data, saves data etc. I copy this bar to each of my forms. The code in most buttons is identical, but the tables and validations, as well as parameters passed to library functions changes for each form. In this case it becomes useful to me because to make the bar usable by any of my forms, I only have to edit the constants of each button. Bob S > On May 18, 2017, at 19:33 , Andre Garzia via use-livecode wrote: > > I usually follow Alis approach. I have a separate initialization handler > which I can call repeatedly if needed. The librarystack call just call it > once but if needed I can call it from the messagebox as well. > > On the topic of libraries, it is good to follow a "functional programming" > approach where you try not to rely on script local and global variables. If > you library functions need nothing but their own parameters to work on, it > becomes easier to test them and calling them over and over seldon generate > side effects. It is way easier to test (and debug) a function that doesn't > touch anything outside of its own script (as in it processes data and > return data but doesn't cause changes outside itself). From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri May 19 11:57:35 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 19 May 2017 10:57:35 -0500 Subject: news about the new Google Play policy In-Reply-To: <3fb7e634fdcc361cf9b89557f11ee9ff@livecode.com> References: <4C5F4C0C-87DC-4029-B415-6A3267806136@gmail.com> <3fb7e634fdcc361cf9b89557f11ee9ff@livecode.com> Message-ID: <15c216b09d0.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> I think there may be an opportunity here to make Google aware of LiveCode and its capabilities. Who knows, they may take an interest. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On May 19, 2017 3:12:10 AM Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: > On 2017-05-19 04:39, Colin Holgate via use-livecode wrote: >> Let me know what you think. > > All I'd really like is a more well-defined policy - that's all that's > needed here I think. After all, if one is going to use terms in a policy > then it seems wise that those terms be explicitly defined. > > What Google is trying to do is 100% clear - it is also very easy to > state > in a completely unambiguous way. e.g. > > "Apps submitted to the Google Play Store must not download any files > which allow the app to access more Android APIs which it could at the > point it was submitted to the Google Play Store." > > This covers all possible cases as far as I can see - and covers cases > which their current policy does not (as worded, at least). > > If you can get an email of someone to whom I can 'whinge' at, then I'll > do some suitable 'whinging' ;) > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > > -- > Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ > LiveCode: Everyone can create apps > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri May 19 12:02:18 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 19 May 2017 16:02:18 +0000 Subject: WannaCry [OT] In-Reply-To: References: <84dd251e-4a61-3555-923d-fdeb0765d74d@fourthworld.com> <5df11c345af3bd65b76508a3b25d74bc@livecode.com> Message-ID: <27721081-093A-4594-9FA9-A65AF5861DD4@iotecdigital.com> I don't think it's a matter of programming standards. The methods used to exploit systems are almost always something you could never have guessed. Flaws in code can be extremeny difficult to see, as was the case in the SSL Heartbleed bug. None of the devs saw the bug when it was approved for merging. Seeing what it was and what it ought to have been would be like seeing a needle in a haystack. I have thought for some time that it is the nature of digital information and our human minds incapacity to comprehend it in its real form that makes it nearly impossible to produce "unhackable" code. Bob S > On May 18, 2017, at 19:48 , Kay C Lan via use-livecode wrote: > > On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 6:46 PM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode > wrote: >> >> I'd at least hope that 'smart cars' software is engineered to a much >> higher standard than other places: >> > Well it may not even be 'smart' cars, even just modern cars may have > problems depending on circumstances. This article also raises an > interesting issue with regard to Uber and/or similar: From th.douez at gmail.com Fri May 19 12:05:08 2017 From: th.douez at gmail.com (Thierry Douez) Date: Fri, 19 May 2017 18:05:08 +0200 Subject: Sort so that "Hello" is always before "hello" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ?Hallo Hermann, ? > >> sort lines of T numeric by each & AaZz_sort( each) ? >> sort lines of T >> >> Else the container is sorted by the first char of each line only. >> > > ?Ok, I can't find a way to do it with a single sort. Therefore your solution 1st or mine adding a second sort after it. Enjoy your week-ed, Thierry ? ?Yes, you are right, so I rewrite it a bit to be more *readable*: > > > sort lines of T numeric by AaZz_sort(char 1 of each) > > function AaZz_sort x > get chartonum( x) > if IT > 96 then return ( IT - 96) * 2 + 1 > else return ( IT - 64) * 2 > end AaZz_sort > ? > -- ------------------------------------------------ Thierry Douez - sunny-tdz.com sunnYrex - sunnYtext2speech - sunnYperl - sunnYmidi - sunnYmage From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri May 19 12:11:35 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 19 May 2017 16:11:35 +0000 Subject: which port is beeing used with get URL? In-Reply-To: <4ab971b841b6f4ae3410d510a304cee7@livecode.com> References: <006001d2d07b$84c9acd0$8e5d0670$@kestner.de> <4ab971b841b6f4ae3410d510a304cee7@livecode.com> Message-ID: <855E78B5-228A-4A0D-AB99-A1F7290774FA@iotecdigital.com> You will never get this completely right. I go on customer networks all the live long day, and there are places where IT people seem more interested in preventing communication than enabling it. Also, as mentioned, some anti-malware software is horrible. One particular one was preventing a user from printing to a brand new copier from his Windows 10 desktop. I was pulling my hair out trying to figure it out, then I said, "Just for kicks and grins, let's disable your AV software." Worked a peach. Bob S > On May 19, 2017, at 02:00 , Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: > > On 2017-05-19 10:40, Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode wrote: >> Am I right, that using "put URL" is a standard http:// protocol via port >> 8080? Or is there a special port being used by LC? > > HTTP is port 80 - HTTPS is port 443. > > LC does not do anything non-standard here (unless you specify, e.g. http://livecode.com:93). > >> Are there any ideas from your experience, what and how to check for to find >> the blocking factor in a customer network? > > Right, so - we know there are problems with LiveCode's networking stack communicating in some network environments. However, the problem is that we're not sure what configurations are actually causing the problem. > > Trevor DeVore has done a lot of work over the years to help improve the internet settings auto-discovery, to make LiveCode much better in this regard; however, things still aren't perfect. > > If we can find a way to fetch all the info about places which are not letting libURL work, then we can look into making it work... The problem is working out how to collect that information. > > If anyone has any ideas on this score then that would be most helpful! > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > > -- > Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ > LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From hh at hyperhh.de Fri May 19 13:05:48 2017 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Fri, 19 May 2017 19:05:48 +0200 Subject: Sort so that "Hello" is always before "hello" Message-ID: Thierry, out of interest, for a lazy day: Have you ever thought of a sort function of type sort by replaceText(each,...) ? Must have a series of really good applications. For example if one wishes, not for the container, but for the sort only, to exchange several chars. Hermann From bvlahos at mac.com Fri May 19 14:20:52 2017 From: bvlahos at mac.com (Bill Vlahos) Date: Fri, 19 May 2017 11:20:52 -0700 Subject: Why doesn't this work? Message-ID: I?m concatenating one field & a passed phone number & another field. The variable vNum works in the first if statement but is blank in the second. Why? Thank you, Bill Vlahos on searchNow vNum if the hilite of button "Enable1" then put field "f1a" & vNum & field "f1b" into vQuery revGoURL vQuery end if if the hilite of button "Enable2" then put field "f2a" & vNum & field "f2b" into vQuery revGoURL vQuery end if end searchNow From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri May 19 14:36:06 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 19 May 2017 13:36:06 -0500 Subject: news about the new Google Play policy In-Reply-To: <2b6362d1-677c-e72e-8350-430d0cda28d4@sonic.net> References: <4C5F4C0C-87DC-4029-B415-6A3267806136@gmail.com> <2b6362d1-677c-e72e-8350-430d0cda28d4@sonic.net> Message-ID: <1a2fad40-5783-3083-f27b-086d72fd18ba@hyperactivesw.com> On 5/18/17 10:56 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > On 05/18/2017 07:46 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >> Colin, you are an incredibly handy person to know. :) What a stroke of >> luck that you were there exactly when the new policy changes were >> released. > > Hmmm. Coincidence? I think not. > Colin seems to be a magnet for these things. > He's like a lightning rod - you can feel the electricity crackle, and > then Zap! there's just the person you need to talk with or Zap! there's > an unannounced product release or Zap! there's the singularity... > So *that's* why he won the game-writing contest at the LC con a few years ago. I knew it had to be something. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri May 19 14:37:13 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 19 May 2017 13:37:13 -0500 Subject: Writing Extensions In-Reply-To: References: <0f053ac9-6875-6016-4dcc-a3ce7635a76a@sonic.net> Message-ID: On 5/19/17 2:18 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: > Referring to yourself as "this me"... Does that mean you are just a link > in a longer behavior chain then, Mark? ;) He has a split personality. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From sundown at pacifier.com Fri May 19 14:40:30 2017 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Fri, 19 May 2017 11:40:30 -0700 Subject: Why doesn't this work? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It could be one of the fields has a space at the end and the other does not. JB > On May 19, 2017, at 11:20 AM, Bill Vlahos via use-livecode wrote: > > I?m concatenating one field & a passed phone number & another field. > > The variable vNum works in the first if statement but is blank in the second. Why? > > Thank you, > Bill Vlahos > > > on searchNow vNum > if the hilite of button "Enable1" then > put field "f1a" & vNum & field "f1b" into vQuery > revGoURL vQuery > end if > if the hilite of button "Enable2" then > put field "f2a" & vNum & field "f2b" into vQuery > revGoURL vQuery > end if > end searchNow > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri May 19 14:42:08 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 19 May 2017 13:42:08 -0500 Subject: [Blog] New post for your reading pleasure In-Reply-To: References: <9AA99C71-207A-4EC6-92B4-8C79FCBC923B@livecode.com> Message-ID: On 5/19/17 9:15 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > I paid up and send in my shirt size, yesterday. Heather's response was > "What does 'two bolts' mean?" You win the internet today. :) But my stereotype has been destroyed, everyone knows that programmers are skinny and live on Jolt and coffee. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From bvlahos at mac.com Fri May 19 15:00:06 2017 From: bvlahos at mac.com (Bill Vlahos) Date: Fri, 19 May 2017 12:00:06 -0700 Subject: Why doesn't this work? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <10CA578F-5D3D-43B2-806E-BFA1EC399198@mac.com> JB, It is the vNum variable itself that is empty in the if statement. If I put vNum the result is blank. Thanks, Bill > On May 19, 2017, at 11:40 AM, JB via use-livecode wrote: > > It could be one of the fields has a space > at the end and the other does not. > > JB > > >> On May 19, 2017, at 11:20 AM, Bill Vlahos via use-livecode wrote: >> >> I?m concatenating one field & a passed phone number & another field. >> >> The variable vNum works in the first if statement but is blank in the second. Why? >> >> Thank you, >> Bill Vlahos >> >> >> on searchNow vNum >> if the hilite of button "Enable1" then >> put field "f1a" & vNum & field "f1b" into vQuery >> revGoURL vQuery >> end if >> if the hilite of button "Enable2" then >> put field "f2a" & vNum & field "f2b" into vQuery >> revGoURL vQuery >> end if >> end searchNow >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Fri May 19 15:01:56 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Fri, 19 May 2017 22:01:56 +0300 Subject: [Blog] New post for your reading pleasure In-Reply-To: References: <9AA99C71-207A-4EC6-92B4-8C79FCBC923B@livecode.com> Message-ID: On 5/19/17 9:42 pm, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > On 5/19/17 9:15 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: >> I paid up and send in my shirt size, yesterday. Heather's response was >> "What does 'two bolts' mean?" > > You win the internet today. :) But my stereotype has been destroyed, > everyone knows that programmers are skinny and live on Jolt and coffee. That explains why I have a 55 year old's beer gut (largely without the help of beer); because I not a programmer, even though I (still) have pretensions to be one. Cannot get 'Jolt' (whatever it is) in Bulgaria; so; lots of coffee with cardamon. Richmond. From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Fri May 19 15:11:24 2017 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Fri, 19 May 2017 15:11:24 -0400 Subject: [Blog] New post for your reading pleasure In-Reply-To: References: <9AA99C71-207A-4EC6-92B4-8C79FCBC923B@livecode.com> Message-ID: On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 2:42 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On 5/19/17 9:15 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > >> I paid up and send in my shirt size, yesterday. Heather's response was >> "What does 'two bolts' mean?" >> > > You win the internet today. :) But my stereotype has been destroyed, > everyone knows that programmers are skinny and live on Jolt and coffee. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > I don't get the connection, so I googled it, which resulted in some light reading suggestions: Albert Einstein: And the Frontiers of Physics Cumulative Sum Charts and Charting for Quality Improvement The Nuts and Bolts of Proofs: An Introduction to Mathematical Proofs https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&hl=en&q=What+does+%27two+bolts%27+mean%3F ~Roger From dochawk at gmail.com Fri May 19 15:22:59 2017 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Fri, 19 May 2017 12:22:59 -0700 Subject: [Blog] New post for your reading pleasure In-Reply-To: References: <9AA99C71-207A-4EC6-92B4-8C79FCBC923B@livecode.com> Message-ID: On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 12:01 PM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Cannot get 'Jolt' (whatever it is) in Bulgaria; so; lots of coffee with > cardamon. > A cola with cane sugar instead o corn syrup and fortified with extra caffeine. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From dochawk at gmail.com Fri May 19 15:24:10 2017 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Fri, 19 May 2017 12:24:10 -0700 Subject: [Blog] New post for your reading pleasure In-Reply-To: References: <9AA99C71-207A-4EC6-92B4-8C79FCBC923B@livecode.com> Message-ID: On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 7:15 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I paid up and send in my shirt size, yesterday. Heather's response was > "What does 'two bolts' mean? > Mire than enough cloth to redo both my classic Cadillac and my wife's full-sixe van? -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Fri May 19 15:50:05 2017 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Fri, 19 May 2017 15:50:05 -0400 Subject: [Blog] New post for your reading pleasure In-Reply-To: References: <9AA99C71-207A-4EC6-92B4-8C79FCBC923B@livecode.com> Message-ID: Roger, two bolts as in two bolts of cloth. Jolt is goooooooooooooooooood, as are any of the sugar-based sodas. Corn syrup and agave just don't have it (but Game Fuel and several of the Rockstar drinks are pretty tasty) On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 3:24 PM, Dr. Hawkins via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 7:15 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > I paid up and send in my shirt size, yesterday. Heather's response was > > "What does 'two bolts' mean? > > > > Mire than enough cloth to redo both my classic Cadillac and my wife's > full-sixe van? > > > -- > Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. > (702) 508-8462 > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri May 19 15:54:18 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 19 May 2017 14:54:18 -0500 Subject: [Blog] New post for your reading pleasure In-Reply-To: References: <9AA99C71-207A-4EC6-92B4-8C79FCBC923B@livecode.com> Message-ID: On 5/19/17 2:11 PM, Roger Eller wrote: > On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 2:42 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> On 5/19/17 9:15 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: >> >>> I paid up and send in my shirt size, yesterday. Heather's response was >>> "What does 'two bolts' mean?" >>> >> >> You win the internet today. :) But my stereotype has been destroyed, >> everyone knows that programmers are skinny and live on Jolt and coffee. > I don't get the connection, so I googled it, which resulted in some light > reading suggestions: > > Albert Einstein: And the Frontiers of Physics > > > Cumulative Sum Charts and Charting for Quality Improvement > > > The Nuts and Bolts of Proofs: An Introduction to Mathematical Proofs > > > https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&hl=en&q=What+does+%27two+bolts%27+mean%3F I suppose math and physics may apply here but a bolt of cloth is up to 100 yards of fabric wrapped around a cardboard core. Google "bolt of cloth" for an image. If Mike needs 200 yards of fabric for his tee shirt then I suspect he also needs custom-made door frames and chairs. Frankly, I don't believe it. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Fri May 19 16:16:33 2017 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Fri, 19 May 2017 16:16:33 -0400 Subject: [Blog] New post for your reading pleasure In-Reply-To: References: <9AA99C71-207A-4EC6-92B4-8C79FCBC923B@livecode.com> Message-ID: Don't be hating on mikey like that. Mikey needs his protein. From colinholgate at gmail.com Fri May 19 17:00:17 2017 From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate) Date: Fri, 19 May 2017 14:00:17 -0700 Subject: news about the new Google Play policy In-Reply-To: <1a2fad40-5783-3083-f27b-086d72fd18ba@hyperactivesw.com> References: <4C5F4C0C-87DC-4029-B415-6A3267806136@gmail.com> <2b6362d1-677c-e72e-8350-430d0cda28d4@sonic.net> <1a2fad40-5783-3083-f27b-086d72fd18ba@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <3AE91EC0-B47F-436E-AFA7-24C29A504D35@gmail.com> I asked one of the Google Play developer support team if there was someone at Google whose job it is to be familiar with non-Google development tools. He didn?t know who that would be, but he asked about which tool I meant. Pointed him towards the LiveCode site, and he said he would check it out. I had already had lunch with him and a colleague, and beat him at pool too, so we were on friendly terms. I think he really will check it out. From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri May 19 17:47:24 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 19 May 2017 16:47:24 -0500 Subject: news about the new Google Play policy In-Reply-To: <3AE91EC0-B47F-436E-AFA7-24C29A504D35@gmail.com> References: <4C5F4C0C-87DC-4029-B415-6A3267806136@gmail.com> <2b6362d1-677c-e72e-8350-430d0cda28d4@sonic.net> <1a2fad40-5783-3083-f27b-086d72fd18ba@hyperactivesw.com> <3AE91EC0-B47F-436E-AFA7-24C29A504D35@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 5/19/17 4:00 PM, Colin Holgate via use-livecode wrote: > I asked one of the Google Play developer support team if there was > someone at Google whose job it is to be familiar with non-Google > development tools. He didn?t know who that would be, but he asked > about which tool I meant. Pointed him towards the LiveCode site, and > he said he would check it out. > > I had already had lunch with him and a colleague, and beat him at > pool too, so we were on friendly terms. I think he really will check > it out. You go, Colin! But you should have let him win. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Fri May 19 17:57:20 2017 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe) Date: Fri, 19 May 2017 23:57:20 +0200 Subject: news about the new Google Play policy In-Reply-To: References: <4C5F4C0C-87DC-4029-B415-6A3267806136@gmail.com> <2b6362d1-677c-e72e-8350-430d0cda28d4@sonic.net> <1a2fad40-5783-3083-f27b-086d72fd18ba@hyperactivesw.com> <3AE91EC0-B47F-436E-AFA7-24C29A504D35@gmail.com> Message-ID: > Am 19.05.2017 um 23:47 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode >: > > On 5/19/17 4:00 PM, Colin Holgate via use-livecode wrote: >> I asked one of the Google Play developer support team if there was >> someone at Google whose job it is to be familiar with non-Google >> development tools. He didn?t know who that would be, but he asked >> about which tool I meant. Pointed him towards the LiveCode site, and >> he said he would check it out. >> >> I had already had lunch with him and a colleague, and beat him at >> pool too, so we were on friendly terms. I think he really will check >> it out. > > You go, Colin! > But you should have let him win. > That was my first thought, too. ;) Matthias Matthias Rebbe +49 5741 310000 ?matthiasrebbe.eu ? From bvlahos at mac.com Fri May 19 19:03:04 2017 From: bvlahos at mac.com (Bill Vlahos) Date: Fri, 19 May 2017 16:03:04 -0700 Subject: Why doesn't this work? In-Reply-To: <10CA578F-5D3D-43B2-806E-BFA1EC399198@mac.com> References: <10CA578F-5D3D-43B2-806E-BFA1EC399198@mac.com> Message-ID: Oh never mind. I was mistaken that it worked in the first ?if statement?. I needed to make vNum a global variable and now it works. Bill > On May 19, 2017, at 12:00 PM, Bill Vlahos via use-livecode wrote: > > JB, > > It is the vNum variable itself that is empty in the if statement. If I put vNum the result is blank. > > Thanks, > Bill > >> On May 19, 2017, at 11:40 AM, JB via use-livecode wrote: >> >> It could be one of the fields has a space >> at the end and the other does not. >> >> JB >> >> >>> On May 19, 2017, at 11:20 AM, Bill Vlahos via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> I?m concatenating one field & a passed phone number & another field. >>> >>> The variable vNum works in the first if statement but is blank in the second. Why? >>> >>> Thank you, >>> Bill Vlahos >>> >>> >>> on searchNow vNum >>> if the hilite of button "Enable1" then >>> put field "f1a" & vNum & field "f1b" into vQuery >>> revGoURL vQuery >>> end if >>> if the hilite of button "Enable2" then >>> put field "f2a" & vNum & field "f2b" into vQuery >>> revGoURL vQuery >>> end if >>> end searchNow >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From waprothero at gmail.com Fri May 19 20:45:55 2017 From: waprothero at gmail.com (William Prothero) Date: Fri, 19 May 2017 17:45:55 -0700 Subject: Can I copy a card from one stack to another? Message-ID: <21F5B2BB-DA70-478F-B8C5-6D5DFA39C93A@gmail.com> Folks, I inadvertently deleted a group from all my cards and then did new work I don?t want to lose on a card. Can I copy this card to another stack with a different name, then copy objects from that stack back to my original stack? This seems very iffy. Possible? Bill William A. Prothero http://earthlearningsolution.org/ From jonathandlynch at gmail.com Fri May 19 20:55:37 2017 From: jonathandlynch at gmail.com (jonathandlynch at gmail.com) Date: Fri, 19 May 2017 20:55:37 -0400 Subject: Can I copy a card from one stack to another? In-Reply-To: <21F5B2BB-DA70-478F-B8C5-6D5DFA39C93A@gmail.com> References: <21F5B2BB-DA70-478F-B8C5-6D5DFA39C93A@gmail.com> Message-ID: <516E746A-0562-487B-8C7E-C045022954BA@gmail.com> Why not? Copy card "mycard" of stack "stack1" to stack "stack2" Copy button "button1" of card "mycard" of stack "stack2" to card "myothercard" of stack "stack1" Sent from my iPhone > On May 19, 2017, at 8:45 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode wrote: > > Folks, > I inadvertently deleted a group from all my cards and then did new work I don?t want to lose on a card. Can I copy this card to another stack with a different name, then copy objects from that stack back to my original stack? This seems very iffy. > > Possible? > Bill > > > William A. Prothero > http://earthlearningsolution.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From lists at mangomultimedia.com Sat May 20 05:55:50 2017 From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore) Date: Sat, 20 May 2017 04:55:50 -0500 Subject: which port is beeing used with get URL? In-Reply-To: <006001d2d07b$84c9acd0$8e5d0670$@kestner.de> References: <006001d2d07b$84c9acd0$8e5d0670$@kestner.de> Message-ID: On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 3:40 AM, Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > LC6 and 8. Again and again I have customers, where my program doesn't gets > an internet connection with standard "put URL foo into res". This happens > only at "institutional customers" with "bigger" networks, obviously with > proxy servers, firewalls, etc. On "private" PCs I never happen this. The > user can setup the proxy credentials in my program, that is ok for some > customers. At other customers my program still doesn't gets access to the > internet and often the admin of the customer doesn't find the reason what > is > blocking my program. Usually most firewalls pop up with a request, if they > are blocking a new program, but in these cases the firewalls keep silent, > so > it is hard to find the reason. > > ... > > Are there any ideas from your experience, what and how to check for to find > the blocking factor in a customer network? > Over the years I've had to use lots of logging and error reporting in order to get to the bottom of internet issues. I have a way for users to turn on logging and all of the ulLogIt messages that liburl generates are logged to a file (just intercept it in a frontscript). In the current version of libUrl I'm aware of two major issues that can affect users on a corporate network - 1. If the network uses a proxy server for HTTPS traffic then the CONNECT protocol will be used. libURL swallows up the headers you send along with your URL, however. If your url request requires headers, it is using the https protocol, and the request is going through a proxy then the request will fail. 2. If the network requires NTLM authentication then the request will fail. When I've used libURL in the past I had an external that Altuit provided years ago. tsNet has NTLM built in and I recently switched to tsNet because of [1]. The current version of tsNet doesn't pick up proxy information on some platforms and doesn't report 40x errors the same way as libUrl but those issues have been addressed for the next release. It may also be that the IT department has to whitelist the domains that our desktop app is trying to connect. I provide a help document for my app that tells IT departments the domains that the app connects to. -- Trevor DeVore ScreenSteps www.screensteps.com From brahma at hindu.org Sun May 21 17:57:16 2017 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Sun, 21 May 2017 21:57:16 +0000 Subject: User friendly functions to replace MySQL queries? In-Reply-To: References: <25c41afb-f80b-9fad-fa97-e7f09990a271@sonic.net> Message-ID: Since I refuse to move over to HTML5 and Andre works on our projects, I have the joy of helping to make sure he sticks with this community. @ Alex cat's out of the bag? yes our current project (of which Andre has master minded a large part) is on git, public. https://github.com/Himalayan-Academy/Siva-Siva-App the only functional branch at the moment it "add-journal" which, for fun, you could you download. the mainloader stack to run is "Siva-Siva-App.livecode" All code written by Andre, myself or anyone on our team (includes Jacque and, previously, David) is open source. Hope to release V1 in Jun? still needs a lot of work. and we have big plans for this app in the future. Wish us luck? it's been a bit of a slog with LC, but finally we have things work on mobile. BR On 5/18/17, 4:04 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Andre Garzia via use-livecode" wrote: auhaauhahuuhahauauhahu yes, it has been how long? years? :-P On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 10:09 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On 05/18/2017 11:41 AM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode wrote: > >> Aloha Friends, >> >> I have been away for a while... >> > > I believe we have a winner in the understatement of the week contest. > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- http://www.andregarzia.com -- All We Do Is Code. http://fon.nu -- minimalist url shortening service. _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From waprothero at gmail.com Sun May 21 20:03:42 2017 From: waprothero at gmail.com (William Prothero) Date: Sun, 21 May 2017 17:03:42 -0700 Subject: Sql problem Message-ID: Folks: I have an app that stores data to a mysql database on my server. It works fine in the IDE and in the iPhone simulator. However, when I load the app onto the iPhone, the saved data is corrupted. I am saving an array. The array is saved in a big string that has been base64 encoded. When saving, I do: put arrayEncode(tArray) into tData put base64encode(tData) into xData put urlEncode(xData) into xData xData is sent to the db When I read back the data, I do the inverse: urlDecode base64Decode arrayDecode The base64 data on the db is different when I store it from the iPhone. I can see this with Navicat, which I use for db management. So, the problem is in the storing of the data. What the heck? I am just using a post command to a php script that writes to the db. Why would the iPhone data that is sent be different from that sent in the simulator? Mac OSX 10.12.4, Livecode 8.1.4 (rc2) and XCode 8.3. Any suggestions would be welcome. Thanks, Bill P. William A. Prothero http://earthlearningsolution.org/ From waprothero at gmail.com Sun May 21 20:23:05 2017 From: waprothero at gmail.com (William Prothero) Date: Sun, 21 May 2017 17:23:05 -0700 Subject: Sql problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Whoops, I lied. The data is stored incorrectly in the simulator too. Hmm?. The IDE stores it correctly. There is something in the encoding that I?m missing. Bill > On May 21, 2017, at 5:03 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode wrote: > > Folks: > I have an app that stores data to a mysql database on my server. It works fine in the IDE and in the iPhone simulator. However, when I load the app onto the iPhone, the saved data is corrupted. > > I am saving an array. The array is saved in a big string that has been base64 encoded. > > When saving, I do: > > put arrayEncode(tArray) into tData > > put base64encode(tData) into xData > > put urlEncode(xData) into xData > > xData is sent to the db > > When I read back the data, I do the inverse: > > urlDecode > base64Decode > arrayDecode > > The base64 data on the db is different when I store it from the iPhone. I can see this with Navicat, which I use for db management. So, the problem is in the storing of the data. > > What the heck? I am just using a post command to a php script that writes to the db. > > Why would the iPhone data that is sent be different from that sent in the simulator? > > Mac OSX 10.12.4, Livecode 8.1.4 (rc2) and XCode 8.3. > > Any suggestions would be welcome. > Thanks, > Bill P. > > William A. Prothero > http://earthlearningsolution.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From waprothero at gmail.com Sun May 21 20:45:07 2017 From: waprothero at gmail.com (William Prothero) Date: Sun, 21 May 2017 17:45:07 -0700 Subject: Sql problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9694FB26-B521-4423-99D2-4831BDF91634@gmail.com> Never mind. I got it working. I?m not exactly sure about the problem because the method I used should have been quite general. However, what made it work is that I had the contents of a list field in the array I was storing and that somehow caused an error when I tried to decode the array. I deleted that array key, because there was no reason I needed to have it in the db anyway, and it worked. I?ll look into why and report back if I find anything interesting. Best, Bill > On May 21, 2017, at 5:23 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode wrote: > > Whoops, I lied. > The data is stored incorrectly in the simulator too. > Hmm?. > The IDE stores it correctly. There is something in the encoding that I?m missing. > Bill > >> On May 21, 2017, at 5:03 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Folks: >> I have an app that stores data to a mysql database on my server. It works fine in the IDE and in the iPhone simulator. However, when I load the app onto the iPhone, the saved data is corrupted. >> >> I am saving an array. The array is saved in a big string that has been base64 encoded. >> >> When saving, I do: >> >> put arrayEncode(tArray) into tData >> >> put base64encode(tData) into xData >> >> put urlEncode(xData) into xData >> >> xData is sent to the db >> >> When I read back the data, I do the inverse: >> >> urlDecode >> base64Decode >> arrayDecode >> >> The base64 data on the db is different when I store it from the iPhone. I can see this with Navicat, which I use for db management. So, the problem is in the storing of the data. >> >> What the heck? I am just using a post command to a php script that writes to the db. >> >> Why would the iPhone data that is sent be different from that sent in the simulator? >> >> Mac OSX 10.12.4, Livecode 8.1.4 (rc2) and XCode 8.3. >> >> Any suggestions would be welcome. >> Thanks, >> Bill P. >> >> William A. Prothero >> http://earthlearningsolution.org/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From toolbook at kestner.de Mon May 22 03:47:20 2017 From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB) Date: Mon, 22 May 2017 09:47:20 +0200 Subject: how are URL / libUrl / tsNet related? Message-ID: <001501d2d2cf$a529a9c0$ef7cfd40$@kestner.de> Hello, I feel, that I am missing some basics about URL / libUrl / tsNet. I thought, when using the keyword "URL" like in "put URL foo into res" it has used under the hood in the past functions from libUrl. And I thought since LC 8 or so libURL was replaced by tsNet, so when using today the keyword URL it uses under the hood tsNet. But as Trevor pointed out in my last post "which port is being used with get URL?", he switched from libUrl to tsNet. That sounds like libUrl and tsNet are two alternatives and I can choose, which one I am using to create internet functions. Looking in the dictionary I see the dedicated libURL and tsNet functions, this looks, like I have to use the libURL or tsNet functions directly instead of the keyword URL, but what makes the difference? And what is being used under the hood, when doing "put URL"? Thanks for shedding some light on this. Tiemo From mark at livecode.com Mon May 22 04:16:37 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Mon, 22 May 2017 10:16:37 +0200 Subject: how are URL / libUrl / tsNet =?UTF-8?Q?related=3F?= In-Reply-To: <001501d2d2cf$a529a9c0$ef7cfd40$@kestner.de> References: <001501d2d2cf$a529a9c0$ef7cfd40$@kestner.de> Message-ID: <26eac8edf6a982638c5564c3eb442d9a@livecode.com> Hi Tiemo, On 2017-05-22 09:47, Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode wrote: > Hello, > > I feel, that I am missing some basics about URL / libUrl / tsNet. > > I thought, when using the keyword "URL" like in "put URL foo into res" > it > has used under the hood in the past functions from libUrl. And I > thought > since LC 8 or so libURL was replaced by tsNet, so when using today the > keyword URL it uses under the hood tsNet. There are two types of URL related functionality in the engine: - those provided by syntax (e.g. load url, url, post etc.) - those provided by libUrl prefixed functions and commands. The syntax works because the engine sends a message (such as loadUrl) through the message path to handle any occurrences of 'load url X'. The other functions and commands because libUrl is just a library stack/backscript. The tsNet external provides a richer set of functionality via a collection of tsNet functions and commands - the tsNet functionality is a superset of that provided by libUrl. When we started bundling tsNet, Charles modified the built-in libUrl so that it consists of a universal library script, and a 'driver' script - the library script provides the public API (both for functions and syntax) and then dispatches to a (private) driver library which actually does the work. tsNet comes with a libUrl driver which implements the whole of libUrl's functionality via tsNet. If you just choose to include libUrl, then you will get the libUrl implementation (which runs using engine socket commands); if you also include tsNet, though, it will install its driver on startup; so libUrl will then be doing all its work vai tsNet. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From toolbook at kestner.de Mon May 22 04:34:14 2017 From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB) Date: Mon, 22 May 2017 10:34:14 +0200 Subject: AW: how are URL / libUrl / tsNet related? In-Reply-To: <26eac8edf6a982638c5564c3eb442d9a@livecode.com> References: <001501d2d2cf$a529a9c0$ef7cfd40$@kestner.de> <26eac8edf6a982638c5564c3eb442d9a@livecode.com> Message-ID: <001b01d2d2d6$3266d500$97347f00$@kestner.de> Hi Mark, thank you for your comprehensive explanations. So when building a standalone, I can choose using tsNet or not, but I can't choose in the IDE. What happens in the IDE when using the keyword URL. Does it always go via tsNet (as far I don't unlink tsNet)? If yes and I don't choose the tsNet inclusion in the standalone builder, the standalone would work differently to the IDE. Right? Tiemo -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag von Mark Waddingham via use-livecode Gesendet: Montag, 22. Mai 2017 10:17 An: How to use LiveCode Cc: Mark Waddingham Betreff: Re: how are URL / libUrl / tsNet related? Hi Tiemo, On 2017-05-22 09:47, Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode wrote: > Hello, > > I feel, that I am missing some basics about URL / libUrl / tsNet. > > I thought, when using the keyword "URL" like in "put URL foo into res" > it > has used under the hood in the past functions from libUrl. And I > thought since LC 8 or so libURL was replaced by tsNet, so when using > today the keyword URL it uses under the hood tsNet. There are two types of URL related functionality in the engine: - those provided by syntax (e.g. load url, url, post etc.) - those provided by libUrl prefixed functions and commands. The syntax works because the engine sends a message (such as loadUrl) through the message path to handle any occurrences of 'load url X'. The other functions and commands because libUrl is just a library stack/backscript. The tsNet external provides a richer set of functionality via a collection of tsNet functions and commands - the tsNet functionality is a superset of that provided by libUrl. When we started bundling tsNet, Charles modified the built-in libUrl so that it consists of a universal library script, and a 'driver' script - the library script provides the public API (both for functions and syntax) and then dispatches to a (private) driver library which actually does the work. tsNet comes with a libUrl driver which implements the whole of libUrl's functionality via tsNet. If you just choose to include libUrl, then you will get the libUrl implementation (which runs using engine socket commands); if you also include tsNet, though, it will install its driver on startup; so libUrl will then be doing all its work vai tsNet. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mark at livecode.com Mon May 22 04:43:41 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Mon, 22 May 2017 10:43:41 +0200 Subject: AW: how are URL / libUrl / tsNet =?UTF-8?Q?related=3F?= In-Reply-To: <001b01d2d2d6$3266d500$97347f00$@kestner.de> References: <001501d2d2cf$a529a9c0$ef7cfd40$@kestner.de> <26eac8edf6a982638c5564c3eb442d9a@livecode.com> <001b01d2d2d6$3266d500$97347f00$@kestner.de> Message-ID: <41557d77a7db59af0fcd37bbfa71b1b4@livecode.com> On 2017-05-22 10:34, Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode wrote: > Hi Mark, > thank you for your comprehensive explanations. > > So when building a standalone, I can choose using tsNet or not, but I > can't > choose in the IDE. What happens in the IDE when using the keyword URL. > Does > it always go via tsNet (as far I don't unlink tsNet)? If yes and I > don't > choose the tsNet inclusion in the standalone builder, the standalone > would > work differently to the IDE. Right? You can explicitly load / unload tsNet in the IDE via the message box: To unload: dispatch "revUnloadLibrary" to stack "tsNetLibUrl" To load again: dispatch "revLoadLibrary" to stack "tsNetLibUrl" Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From toolbook at kestner.de Mon May 22 05:13:31 2017 From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB) Date: Mon, 22 May 2017 11:13:31 +0200 Subject: which Externals does a standalone load? Message-ID: <002a01d2d2db$af452220$0dcf6660$@kestner.de> Hello, LC 8.1.4 I have a program out in the market, and I am unsure, if it runs with or without tsNet. The tsNet.dll is located in the Externals folder (from a former build), but accidentially I removed the checkmark from the tsNet extension in the standalone builder at the last build. So does a standalone loads all externals, which reside in the Externals folder of the standalone? In my case also the tsNet, or does it have an internal "list" of externals, which was build while the standalone was build and it loads only those externals, which were checked at the time of the standalone build and would ignore the tsNet in my case? I don't know, how I could test if it is used or not in my special case, because of the fallback to libUrl the URL keyword works anyhow. Tiemo From mark at livecode.com Mon May 22 05:25:51 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Mon, 22 May 2017 11:25:51 +0200 Subject: which Externals does a standalone =?UTF-8?Q?load=3F?= In-Reply-To: <002a01d2d2db$af452220$0dcf6660$@kestner.de> References: <002a01d2d2db$af452220$0dcf6660$@kestner.de> Message-ID: <57e7b6fea6e6b179f804f1127da32d37@livecode.com> On 2017-05-22 11:13, Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode wrote: > Hello, > > LC 8.1.4 I have a program out in the market, and I am unsure, if it > runs > with or without tsNet. Standalones only load the externals which are explicitly included (i.e. those chosen explicitly, or those chosen by the 'search for inclusions' step). You can check to see what a built application (on Mac) is loading by: 1) Running the app 2) Go to Activity Monitor 3) Find the process of the standalone you've just run 4) Click the 'info' button to get info about the process 5) Look at the Open Files and Ports tab 6) See what files under Externals are loaded. For example, the 8.1.1 Business IDE has these: /Applications/LiveCode Business 8.1.1.app/Contents/Tools/Externals/revandroid.bundle/Contents/MacOS/revandroid /Applications/LiveCode Business 8.1.1.app/Contents/Tools/Externals/revdb.bundle/Contents/MacOS/revdb /Applications/LiveCode Business 8.1.1.app/Contents/Tools/Externals/revfont.bundle/Contents/MacOS/revfont /Applications/LiveCode Business 8.1.1.app/Contents/Tools/Externals/revbrowser.bundle/Contents/MacOS/revbrowser /Applications/LiveCode Business 8.1.1.app/Contents/Tools/Externals/reviphone.bundle/Contents/MacOS/reviphone /Applications/LiveCode Business 8.1.1.app/Contents/Tools/Externals/revspeech.bundle/Contents/MacOS/revspeech /Applications/LiveCode Business 8.1.1.app/Contents/Tools/Externals/revvideograbber.bundle/Contents/MacOS/revvideograbber /Applications/LiveCode Business 8.1.1.app/Contents/Tools/Ext/blur-1.1.17/blur.bundle/Contents/MacOS/blur /Applications/LiveCode Business 8.1.1.app/Contents/Tools/Ext/mergJSON-1.0.33/mergJSON.bundle/Contents/MacOS/mergJSON /Applications/LiveCode Business 8.1.1.app/Contents/Tools/Externals/revxml.bundle/Contents/MacOS/revxml /Applications/LiveCode Business 8.1.1.app/Contents/Tools/Externals/revzip.bundle/Contents/MacOS/revzip /Applications/LiveCode Business 8.1.1.app/Contents/Tools/Ext/mergAV-4.0.19/mergAV.bundle/Contents/MacOS/mergAV /Applications/LiveCode Business 8.1.1.app/Contents/Tools/Ext/mergAWS-1.2.29/mergAWS.bundle/Contents/MacOS/mergAWS /Applications/LiveCode Business 8.1.1.app/Contents/Tools/Ext/mergBLE-1.1.11/mergBLE.bundle/Contents/MacOS/mergBLE /Applications/LiveCode Business 8.1.1.app/Contents/Tools/Ext/mergBonjour-1.0.30/mergBonjour.bundle/Contents/MacOS/mergBonjour /Applications/LiveCode Business 8.1.1.app/Contents/Tools/Ext/mergCL-2.0.26/mergCL.bundle/Contents/MacOS/mergCL /Applications/LiveCode Business 8.1.1.app/Contents/Tools/Ext/mergGoogle-1.0.17/mergGoogle.bundle/Contents/MacOS/mergGoogle /Applications/LiveCode Business 8.1.1.app/Contents/Tools/Ext/mergGoogle-1.0.17/mergGoogle.bundle/Contents/Frameworks/GData.framework/Versions/A/GData /Applications/LiveCode Business 8.1.1.app/Contents/Tools/Ext/mergMarkdown-1.0.30/mergMarkdown.bundle/Contents/MacOS/mergMarkdown /Applications/LiveCode Business 8.1.1.app/Contents/Tools/Ext/mergMicrophone-1.0.30/mergMicrophone.bundle/Contents/MacOS/mergMicrophone /Applications/LiveCode Business 8.1.1.app/Contents/Tools/Ext/mergNotify-2.0.27/mergNotify.bundle/Contents/MacOS/mergNotify /Applications/LiveCode Business 8.1.1.app/Contents/Tools/Ext/tsNet_Business_1.2.3/tsNet.bundle/Contents/MacOS/tsNet /Applications/LiveCode Business 8.1.1.app/Contents/Tools/Ext/XPDF-1.0.8/XPDF.bundle/Contents/MacOS/XPDF Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From toolbook at kestner.de Mon May 22 05:40:00 2017 From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB) Date: Mon, 22 May 2017 11:40:00 +0200 Subject: AW: which Externals does a standalone load? In-Reply-To: <57e7b6fea6e6b179f804f1127da32d37@livecode.com> References: <002a01d2d2db$af452220$0dcf6660$@kestner.de> <57e7b6fea6e6b179f804f1127da32d37@livecode.com> Message-ID: <003101d2d2df$624a4460$26decd20$@kestner.de> Thanks for clarifying! Tiemo -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag von Mark Waddingham via use-livecode Gesendet: Montag, 22. Mai 2017 11:26 An: How to use LiveCode Cc: Mark Waddingham Betreff: Re: which Externals does a standalone load? On 2017-05-22 11:13, Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode wrote: > Hello, > > LC 8.1.4 I have a program out in the market, and I am unsure, if it > runs with or without tsNet. Standalones only load the externals which are explicitly included (i.e. those chosen explicitly, or those chosen by the 'search for inclusions' step). You can check to see what a built application (on Mac) is loading by: 1) Running the app 2) Go to Activity Monitor 3) Find the process of the standalone you've just run 4) Click the 'info' button to get info about the process 5) Look at the Open Files and Ports tab 6) See what files under Externals are loaded. For example, the 8.1.1 Business IDE has these: /Applications/LiveCode Business 8.1.1.app/Contents/Tools/Externals/revandroid.bundle/Contents/MacOS/revandro id /Applications/LiveCode Business 8.1.1.app/Contents/Tools/Externals/revdb.bundle/Contents/MacOS/revdb /Applications/LiveCode Business 8.1.1.app/Contents/Tools/Externals/revfont.bundle/Contents/MacOS/revfont /Applications/LiveCode Business 8.1.1.app/Contents/Tools/Externals/revbrowser.bundle/Contents/MacOS/revbrows er /Applications/LiveCode Business 8.1.1.app/Contents/Tools/Externals/reviphone.bundle/Contents/MacOS/reviphone /Applications/LiveCode Business 8.1.1.app/Contents/Tools/Externals/revspeech.bundle/Contents/MacOS/revspeech /Applications/LiveCode Business 8.1.1.app/Contents/Tools/Externals/revvideograbber.bundle/Contents/MacOS/rev videograbber /Applications/LiveCode Business 8.1.1.app/Contents/Tools/Ext/blur-1.1.17/blur.bundle/Contents/MacOS/blur /Applications/LiveCode Business 8.1.1.app/Contents/Tools/Ext/mergJSON-1.0.33/mergJSON.bundle/Contents/MacOS/ mergJSON /Applications/LiveCode Business 8.1.1.app/Contents/Tools/Externals/revxml.bundle/Contents/MacOS/revxml /Applications/LiveCode Business 8.1.1.app/Contents/Tools/Externals/revzip.bundle/Contents/MacOS/revzip /Applications/LiveCode Business 8.1.1.app/Contents/Tools/Ext/mergAV-4.0.19/mergAV.bundle/Contents/MacOS/merg AV /Applications/LiveCode Business 8.1.1.app/Contents/Tools/Ext/mergAWS-1.2.29/mergAWS.bundle/Contents/MacOS/me rgAWS /Applications/LiveCode Business 8.1.1.app/Contents/Tools/Ext/mergBLE-1.1.11/mergBLE.bundle/Contents/MacOS/me rgBLE /Applications/LiveCode Business 8.1.1.app/Contents/Tools/Ext/mergBonjour-1.0.30/mergBonjour.bundle/Contents/ MacOS/mergBonjour /Applications/LiveCode Business 8.1.1.app/Contents/Tools/Ext/mergCL-2.0.26/mergCL.bundle/Contents/MacOS/merg CL /Applications/LiveCode Business 8.1.1.app/Contents/Tools/Ext/mergGoogle-1.0.17/mergGoogle.bundle/Contents/Ma cOS/mergGoogle /Applications/LiveCode Business 8.1.1.app/Contents/Tools/Ext/mergGoogle-1.0.17/mergGoogle.bundle/Contents/Fr ameworks/GData.framework/Versions/A/GData /Applications/LiveCode Business 8.1.1.app/Contents/Tools/Ext/mergMarkdown-1.0.30/mergMarkdown.bundle/Content s/MacOS/mergMarkdown /Applications/LiveCode Business 8.1.1.app/Contents/Tools/Ext/mergMicrophone-1.0.30/mergMicrophone.bundle/Con tents/MacOS/mergMicrophone /Applications/LiveCode Business 8.1.1.app/Contents/Tools/Ext/mergNotify-2.0.27/mergNotify.bundle/Contents/Ma cOS/mergNotify /Applications/LiveCode Business 8.1.1.app/Contents/Tools/Ext/tsNet_Business_1.2.3/tsNet.bundle/Contents/MacO S/tsNet /Applications/LiveCode Business 8.1.1.app/Contents/Tools/Ext/XPDF-1.0.8/XPDF.bundle/Contents/MacOS/XPDF Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From colinholgate at gmail.com Mon May 22 08:09:03 2017 From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate) Date: Mon, 22 May 2017 08:09:03 -0400 Subject: news about the new Google Play policy In-Reply-To: <3D031DF2-5CB8-4C41-B4FC-15ACD2DCF93F@gmail.com> References: <4C5F4C0C-87DC-4029-B415-6A3267806136@gmail.com> <2b6362d1-677c-e72e-8350-430d0cda28d4@sonic.net> <1a2fad40-5783-3083-f27b-086d72fd18ba@hyperactivesw.com> <3D031DF2-5CB8-4C41-B4FC-15ACD2DCF93F@gmail.com> Message-ID: I did get follow up messages from the Google policy guy. Here?s what he said: " I will indeed talk to the team behind developing the policies update around dynamic code loading and surface the livecode environment. I do not believe that the intent here is to prevent their model, but we will absolutely explore whats going on with that framework to figure out a path forward." From mark at livecode.com Mon May 22 08:20:48 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Mon, 22 May 2017 14:20:48 +0200 Subject: news about the new Google Play policy In-Reply-To: References: <4C5F4C0C-87DC-4029-B415-6A3267806136@gmail.com> <2b6362d1-677c-e72e-8350-430d0cda28d4@sonic.net> <1a2fad40-5783-3083-f27b-086d72fd18ba@hyperactivesw.com> <3D031DF2-5CB8-4C41-B4FC-15ACD2DCF93F@gmail.com> Message-ID: <37662ecf74d3c28ce1fe614e3187da04@livecode.com> On 2017-05-22 14:09, Colin Holgate via use-livecode wrote: > I did get follow up messages from the Google policy guy. Here?s what he > said: > > " I will indeed talk to the team behind developing the policies update > around dynamic code loading and surface the livecode environment. I do > not believe that the intent here is to prevent their model, but we > will absolutely explore whats going on with that framework to figure > out a path forward." Great - I'm more than happy to discuss this with them as pertains to LiveCode. If LCB FFI is not used, then everything is fine. If it is used, then it does open the door to being able to download non-native executable (LCB VM) code to be downloaded and extend the API access of an app. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Mon May 22 10:35:14 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Mon, 22 May 2017 14:35:14 +0000 Subject: which port is beeing used with get URL? In-Reply-To: References: <006001d2d07b$84c9acd0$8e5d0670$@kestner.de> Message-ID: That may be because NTLM has a V1 and V2. It may be that tsNet does not use one or the other, probably V2. Bob S > On May 20, 2017, at 02:55 , Trevor DeVore via use-livecode wrote: > > 2. If the network requires NTLM authentication then the request will fail. > When I've used libURL in the past I had an external that Altuit provided > years ago. tsNet has NTLM built in and I recently switched to tsNet because > of [1]. The current version of tsNet doesn't pick up proxy information on > some platforms and doesn't report 40x errors the same way as libUrl but > those issues have been addressed for the next release. From ambassador at fourthworld.com Tue May 23 10:53:20 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue, 23 May 2017 07:53:20 -0700 Subject: test Message-ID: <9104dbec-3497-16a4-a7c3-ab336c6b97bc@fourthworld.com> (Apologies for the non-content post; testing a hypothesis reported by a list user) -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From paul at researchware.com Tue May 23 11:05:00 2017 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Tue, 23 May 2017 11:05:00 -0400 Subject: Best Practice for updating the screen? Message-ID: <2b1fdebe-3b47-6887-403f-3603ddf060c7@researchware.com> I find on many occasions that I am in the middle (or somewhere) in a long handler and I want to update the screen and then continue. Example: on something lock screen ... bunches of code unlock screen wait 0 with messages -- generate a screen redraw/update to display something (status message/icon/symbol/whatever lock screen ... more bunches of code unlock screen end something The problem with this approach is that other messages can get through in addition to the OS redrawing the screen, such as an impatient user generating key down or auto key or mouse events. I realize I could use "flushEvents" before the "wait 0 with messages" statement to clear any such impatient messages out, but is there a better way? Has LiveCode ever considered a "redraw screen" command or something like that which lets the system have some free CPU cycles but without other UI events getting processed? Is there an enhancement request for such a feature in the LiveCode bugzilla database? Does anyone else run into this issue in their work? What is the "best practice" for this issue? From ambassador at fourthworld.com Tue May 23 11:18:55 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue, 23 May 2017 08:18:55 -0700 Subject: Best Practice for updating the screen? In-Reply-To: <2b1fdebe-3b47-6887-403f-3603ddf060c7@researchware.com> References: <2b1fdebe-3b47-6887-403f-3603ddf060c7@researchware.com> Message-ID: <2706594a-728c-5100-6f6e-8a041c7041c0@fourthworld.com> Screen redraws should be controllable by the scripter with lockScreen. The need to use "wait 9 with messages" was recognized as a bug, and IIRC fixed in more recent versions of LC (v7 and later?). If you find remaining cases where your script does not have control over redraws with "lock screen" and "unlock screen" please file a bug report. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Paul Dupuis wrote: > I find on many occasions that I am in the middle (or somewhere) in a > long handler and I want to update the screen and then continue. > > Example: > > on something > lock screen > ... bunches of code > unlock screen > wait 0 with messages -- generate a screen redraw/update to display > something (status message/icon/symbol/whatever > lock screen > ... more bunches of code > unlock screen > end something > > The problem with this approach is that other messages can get through in > addition to the OS redrawing the screen, such as an impatient user > generating key down or auto key or mouse events. > > I realize I could use "flushEvents" before the "wait 0 with messages" > statement to clear any such impatient messages out, but is there a > better way? > > Has LiveCode ever considered a "redraw screen" command or something like > that which lets the system have some free CPU cycles but without other > UI events getting processed? > > Is there an enhancement request for such a feature in the LiveCode > bugzilla database? > > Does anyone else run into this issue in their work? > > What is the "best practice" for this issue? From bonnmike at gmail.com Tue May 23 11:27:30 2017 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Tue, 23 May 2017 09:27:30 -0600 Subject: G4 Message-ID: trying this again since it seems the list is back up... I have an old g4 mac laptop running tiger. I was wondering if anyone had a copy of rev media out there (the one you could install and use but not build standalones) that they could share with me, so i can mess around on it? Assuming this is ok with the mothership of course. From mark at livecode.com Tue May 23 11:28:54 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Tue, 23 May 2017 17:28:54 +0200 Subject: Best Practice for updating the =?UTF-8?Q?screen=3F?= In-Reply-To: <2b1fdebe-3b47-6887-403f-3603ddf060c7@researchware.com> References: <2b1fdebe-3b47-6887-403f-3603ddf060c7@researchware.com> Message-ID: <67ecb338db8aae5e84022935fe7b32bd@livecode.com> On 2017-05-23 17:05, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote: > Has LiveCode ever considered a "redraw screen" command or something > like > that which lets the system have some free CPU cycles but without other > UI events getting processed? > > Is there an enhancement request for such a feature in the LiveCode > bugzilla database? > > Does anyone else run into this issue in their work? > > What is the "best practice" for this issue? What Richard said is correct - at some point we reworked things so that: After every LiveCode Script command which executes and adds an update region to a stack, the updates are flushed to the screen. If a command is executed inside 'lock / unlock screen', all accumulated updates are flushed on unlock screen (assuming unlocking the screen at that point reduces the lock count to zero). The screen is implicitly unlocked when all running handlers finish (i.e. control returns to the root event loop). I've just done a quick check in 6.7.11 and doing: repeat forever set the hilite of button 1 to false set the hilite of button 1 to true end repeat Does what is expected - the screen updates after each 'set'. Wrapping one or other in 'lock/unlock' screen causes the same effect. So I'm surprised you need the 'wait for messages' even in 6.7.11 - can you post some more context to what you are doing? In any case, you might find wait without messages is sufficient to solve your problem - this still causes the event loop to run, but everything is just queued rather than processed. In particular, using this you won't get any events percolating through script. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mark at livecode.com Tue May 23 11:31:19 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Tue, 23 May 2017 17:31:19 +0200 Subject: G4 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8db55c1e0cfbd118e80564798b926b19@livecode.com> On 2017-05-23 17:27, Mike Bonner via use-livecode wrote: > trying this again since it seems the list is back up... > > I have an old g4 mac laptop running tiger. I was wondering if anyone > had a > copy of rev media out there (the one you could install and use but not > build standalones) that they could share with me, so i can mess around > on > it? Assuming this is ok with the mothership of course. You could try LiveCode Community 6.x - we still supported PPC Mac's at that point IIRC (Tiger+). Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From hh at hyperhh.de Tue May 23 11:35:48 2017 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Tue, 23 May 2017 17:35:48 +0200 Subject: test Message-ID: <58ECFDA2-EA5E-440A-A92F-B071BF8404D9@hyperhh.de> > Richard G. wrote: > (Apologies for the non-content post; testing a hypothesis reported by a > list user) Sorry for answering to the content of an non-content post: RG derived a "hypothesis" from http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?p=154278#p154278 So what did you test? The full device or the end of the use-list? ;-) From blueback09 at gmail.com Tue May 23 11:36:00 2017 From: blueback09 at gmail.com (Matt Maier) Date: Tue, 23 May 2017 08:36:00 -0700 Subject: breakpoint on parameter Message-ID: I want to find out which parts of my code are making changes to a control's parameter. Specifically, I've got an arrow that I want to be black, and it is black when it's created, but then it turns gray. I can't find the script that's turning it gray. I don't know where to put a breakpoint in the script. Can I put a breakpoint on that control's color parameter, so execution stops whenever something modifies it and goes to the script that's doing the modification? From bonnmike at gmail.com Tue May 23 11:41:44 2017 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Tue, 23 May 2017 09:41:44 -0600 Subject: G4 In-Reply-To: <8db55c1e0cfbd118e80564798b926b19@livecode.com> References: <8db55c1e0cfbd118e80564798b926b19@livecode.com> Message-ID: Oh cool! Thanks for the tip! On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 9:31 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On 2017-05-23 17:27, Mike Bonner via use-livecode wrote: > >> trying this again since it seems the list is back up... >> >> I have an old g4 mac laptop running tiger. I was wondering if anyone had >> a >> copy of rev media out there (the one you could install and use but not >> build standalones) that they could share with me, so i can mess around on >> it? Assuming this is ok with the mothership of course. >> > > You could try LiveCode Community 6.x - we still supported PPC Mac's at > that point IIRC (Tiger+). > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > > -- > Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ > LiveCode: Everyone can create apps > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Tue May 23 11:42:45 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue, 23 May 2017 08:42:45 -0700 Subject: test In-Reply-To: <58ECFDA2-EA5E-440A-A92F-B071BF8404D9@hyperhh.de> References: <58ECFDA2-EA5E-440A-A92F-B071BF8404D9@hyperhh.de> Message-ID: <8d1b4f24-699d-fa02-eecb-87c2135e3dd7@fourthworld.com> hh wrote: >> Richard G. wrote: >> (Apologies for the non-content post; testing a hypothesis reported by >> a list user) > > Sorry for answering to the content of an non-content post: > > RG derived a "hypothesis" from > http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?p=154278#p154278 > > So what did you test? The full device or the end of the use-list? ;-) I have no access to the "device" (I'm assuming you mean server?), so I merely tested what I can test, to see if I was able to reproduce the error you'd reported. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From hlowe at me.com Tue May 23 11:30:02 2017 From: hlowe at me.com (hlowe) Date: Tue, 23 May 2017 08:30:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Best Practice for updating the screen? In-Reply-To: <2b1fdebe-3b47-6887-403f-3603ddf060c7@researchware.com> References: <2b1fdebe-3b47-6887-403f-3603ddf060c7@researchware.com> Message-ID: <1495553402079-4715095.post@n4.nabble.com> A while back I encountered a problem with datagrids not correctly redrawing (its a long story). One of the LC team suggested this code (in the card script) to force a screen redraw: command RedrawCard # forces a card redraw by the Engine set the backcolor of me to the backcolor of me end RedrawCard It fixed the problem that I was having. I agree with Richard that, in general, locking and unlocking the screen is the standard approach to forcing a screen update. Henry -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Best-Practice-for-updating-the-screen-tp4715086p4715095.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From ambassador at fourthworld.com Tue May 23 11:45:57 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue, 23 May 2017 08:45:57 -0700 Subject: breakpoint on parameter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <61fa5ae3-12f5-2fe2-edd0-9bf9b573dfa1@fourthworld.com> Matt Maier wrote: > I want to find out which parts of my code are making changes to a > control's parameter. Specifically, I've got an arrow that I want > to be black, and it is black when it's created, but then it turns > gray. I can't find the script that's turning it gray. > > I don't know where to put a breakpoint in the script. > > Can I put a breakpoint on that control's color parameter, so execution > stops whenever something modifies it and goes to the script that's > doing the modification? There's a request to allow getProp and setProp for built-in object properties: http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=3126 I would imagine this is a non-trivial request, given what I'm guessing would be performance penalties. Perhaps Mark Waddingham could offer insight on this. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From toolbook at kestner.de Tue May 23 11:52:27 2017 From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB) Date: Tue, 23 May 2017 17:52:27 +0200 Subject: AW: which Externals does a standalone load? In-Reply-To: <57e7b6fea6e6b179f804f1127da32d37@livecode.com> References: <002a01d2d2db$af452220$0dcf6660$@kestner.de> <57e7b6fea6e6b179f804f1127da32d37@livecode.com> Message-ID: <004f01d2d3dc$94805570$bd810050$@kestner.de> FYI, Mark W. has shown, how you can check which externals actually are loaded by a standalone on Mac - thanks for that. On Windows there isn't such a tool in the system, but Microsoft offers on their web site "Windows sysinternals" a tool "Process Explorer" for download. With this tool you also can explore, which DLLs are loaded by a standalone at runtime on Windows too. In my case I could verify, that tsNet is loaded. Tiemo -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag von Mark Waddingham via use-livecode Gesendet: Montag, 22. Mai 2017 11:26 An: How to use LiveCode Cc: Mark Waddingham Betreff: Re: which Externals does a standalone load? On 2017-05-22 11:13, Tiemo Hollmann TB via use-livecode wrote: > Hello, > > LC 8.1.4 I have a program out in the market, and I am unsure, if it > runs with or without tsNet. Standalones only load the externals which are explicitly included (i.e. those chosen explicitly, or those chosen by the 'search for inclusions' step). You can check to see what a built application (on Mac) is loading by: 1) Running the app 2) Go to Activity Monitor 3) Find the process of the standalone you've just run 4) Click the 'info' button to get info about the process 5) Look at the Open Files and Ports tab 6) See what files under Externals are loaded. For example, the 8.1.1 Business IDE has these: /Applications/LiveCode Business 8.1.1.app/Contents/Tools/Externals/revandroid.bundle/Contents/MacOS/revandro id /Applications/LiveCode Business 8.1.1.app/Contents/Tools/Externals/revdb.bundle/Contents/MacOS/revdb /Applications/LiveCode Business 8.1.1.app/Contents/Tools/Externals/revfont.bundle/Contents/MacOS/revfont /Applications/LiveCode Business 8.1.1.app/Contents/Tools/Externals/revbrowser.bundle/Contents/MacOS/revbrows er /Applications/LiveCode Business 8.1.1.app/Contents/Tools/Externals/reviphone.bundle/Contents/MacOS/reviphone /Applications/LiveCode Business 8.1.1.app/Contents/Tools/Externals/revspeech.bundle/Contents/MacOS/revspeech /Applications/LiveCode Business 8.1.1.app/Contents/Tools/Externals/revvideograbber.bundle/Contents/MacOS/rev videograbber /Applications/LiveCode Business 8.1.1.app/Contents/Tools/Ext/blur-1.1.17/blur.bundle/Contents/MacOS/blur /Applications/LiveCode Business 8.1.1.app/Contents/Tools/Ext/mergJSON-1.0.33/mergJSON.bundle/Contents/MacOS/ mergJSON /Applications/LiveCode Business 8.1.1.app/Contents/Tools/Externals/revxml.bundle/Contents/MacOS/revxml /Applications/LiveCode Business 8.1.1.app/Contents/Tools/Externals/revzip.bundle/Contents/MacOS/revzip /Applications/LiveCode Business 8.1.1.app/Contents/Tools/Ext/mergAV-4.0.19/mergAV.bundle/Contents/MacOS/merg AV /Applications/LiveCode Business 8.1.1.app/Contents/Tools/Ext/mergAWS-1.2.29/mergAWS.bundle/Contents/MacOS/me rgAWS /Applications/LiveCode Business 8.1.1.app/Contents/Tools/Ext/mergBLE-1.1.11/mergBLE.bundle/Contents/MacOS/me rgBLE /Applications/LiveCode Business 8.1.1.app/Contents/Tools/Ext/mergBonjour-1.0.30/mergBonjour.bundle/Contents/ MacOS/mergBonjour /Applications/LiveCode Business 8.1.1.app/Contents/Tools/Ext/mergCL-2.0.26/mergCL.bundle/Contents/MacOS/merg CL /Applications/LiveCode Business 8.1.1.app/Contents/Tools/Ext/mergGoogle-1.0.17/mergGoogle.bundle/Contents/Ma cOS/mergGoogle /Applications/LiveCode Business 8.1.1.app/Contents/Tools/Ext/mergGoogle-1.0.17/mergGoogle.bundle/Contents/Fr ameworks/GData.framework/Versions/A/GData /Applications/LiveCode Business 8.1.1.app/Contents/Tools/Ext/mergMarkdown-1.0.30/mergMarkdown.bundle/Content s/MacOS/mergMarkdown /Applications/LiveCode Business 8.1.1.app/Contents/Tools/Ext/mergMicrophone-1.0.30/mergMicrophone.bundle/Con tents/MacOS/mergMicrophone /Applications/LiveCode Business 8.1.1.app/Contents/Tools/Ext/mergNotify-2.0.27/mergNotify.bundle/Contents/Ma cOS/mergNotify /Applications/LiveCode Business 8.1.1.app/Contents/Tools/Ext/tsNet_Business_1.2.3/tsNet.bundle/Contents/MacO S/tsNet /Applications/LiveCode Business 8.1.1.app/Contents/Tools/Ext/XPDF-1.0.8/XPDF.bundle/Contents/MacOS/XPDF Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at researchware.com Tue May 23 11:53:33 2017 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Tue, 23 May 2017 11:53:33 -0400 Subject: Best Practice for updating the screen? In-Reply-To: <67ecb338db8aae5e84022935fe7b32bd@livecode.com> References: <2b1fdebe-3b47-6887-403f-3603ddf060c7@researchware.com> <67ecb338db8aae5e84022935fe7b32bd@livecode.com> Message-ID: <8f7c8e70-84be-7f8c-ffbe-f6e926cb188c@researchware.com> Thank you Richard and Mark, Okay, another reason (among so very many) why I have to get our main app from 6.7.11 up to 8.1.x or higher as soon as possible. That said, this particular case is as follows: We have a substack that is a PDF window using XPDF. XPDF can take some time to load large PDF files (say several hundred pages). While the external is actually loading the PDF file, the script continues, so we hide the PDFViewer and display a image behind it that informs the user to please wait. I actually unlock the screen before hiding the PDF viewer, but it seemed I needed a wait 0 with messages AFTER hiding the viewer for it to actually disappear. The script then relocks the screen and does some more work to set up for the PDF file. The bug we discovered recently is a user action in another window, pressing the down arrow key (actually holding it down constantly) to rapidly scroll through a list of "bookmarks" in the PDF, mean that while the arrow down key handler was invoking the script to load a new PDF file to display the bookmark, the "wait 0 with messages" in the pdf open handler allows the next arror down message to start executing. I addressed this this morning by flushing key events before the 'wait 0 with messages' which actually works rather well to solve this problem. I also added checks to handlers that display the "bookmark" to skip that action if the pdfViewer is not visible (still hidden while a file is loading). These two fixes seem to have addressed the issue nicely, but I was curious as to what the "best practice" was. The answer is "be on a current release of livecode and just unlock the screen", so back to work for me on getting to that state! :-) From ahsoftware at sonic.net Tue May 23 11:53:51 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Tue, 23 May 2017 08:53:51 -0700 Subject: Writing Extensions In-Reply-To: <361e42d6a9c51fad99679cb9e12988fe@livecode.com> References: <094526dc-005e-6184-fb1e-06f7e8eff405@sonic.net> <361e42d6a9c51fad99679cb9e12988fe@livecode.com> Message-ID: <9edeb6ce-2ce5-a0eb-49ec-ed402b56b063@sonic.net> (getting back to this thread after being without internet for several days - it's rather an interesting experience) On 05/19/2017 12:40 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: > If we are honest then parsing XML even with LCS's excellent text > chunking isn't > necessarily *that* much 'prettier'. XML is quite a complicated format if > you > want a 100% compliant reader (do we have a 100% compliant XML parser > written in LiveCode?) - hence why, in this case, it would probably be > better > to have a wrapper around a well established XML library in LCB. > > Why reinvent a wheel which many other people have already decided needs > reinventing... I'm not doing this because it's fun. I'm stuck with parsing xml data, and it's much uglier trying to treat it as a text stream, especially with a subset of the xtalk chunking functions, than by using the revXML functions in LCS. It might be useful to have a list of what xtalk features are available in LCB, and possibly even more useful to have a list of the features that *aren't* available in LCB. For instance, the lack of a switch statement is both surprising and disappointing. What decisions were made as to what language features to support / remove? -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From ahsoftware at sonic.net Tue May 23 11:57:54 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Tue, 23 May 2017 08:57:54 -0700 Subject: breakpoint on parameter In-Reply-To: <61fa5ae3-12f5-2fe2-edd0-9bf9b573dfa1@fourthworld.com> References: <61fa5ae3-12f5-2fe2-edd0-9bf9b573dfa1@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <4f794639-28ef-43a0-575a-43e524d40efd@sonic.net> On 05/23/2017 08:45 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > There's a request to allow getProp and setProp for built-in object > properties: > http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=3126 ...and it's from 2005, rev version 2.6... -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From ahsoftware at sonic.net Tue May 23 12:02:41 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Tue, 23 May 2017 09:02:41 -0700 Subject: Writing Extensions In-Reply-To: <0daf672be301a7e1daf78c519a113e31@livecode.com> References: <21c77d1f-670e-3e8c-7208-51423fc24188@sonic.net> <0daf672be301a7e1daf78c519a113e31@livecode.com> Message-ID: <00d46d75-336a-d312-4220-a0ce3c66acca@sonic.net> On 05/18/2017 10:30 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: >> Ah. So the dictionary isn't a good place to look for things. I'll >> spend some time working my way through the language reference instead. > > Heh - as Ali said, the docs and such need a fair bit of work :) I'm rather disappointed that there's no way to search the guides. For instance, to find out why the switch statement wasn't working in LCB, I opened the LCB guide and found that the only way to discover this was to read through the entire text. A simple control-F "switch" would have either pinpointed the section or given no results. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From ali.lloyd at livecode.com Tue May 23 12:08:03 2017 From: ali.lloyd at livecode.com (Ali Lloyd) Date: Tue, 23 May 2017 16:08:03 +0000 Subject: Writing Extensions In-Reply-To: <00d46d75-336a-d312-4220-a0ce3c66acca@sonic.net> References: <21c77d1f-670e-3e8c-7208-51423fc24188@sonic.net> <0daf672be301a7e1daf78c519a113e31@livecode.com> <00d46d75-336a-d312-4220-a0ce3c66acca@sonic.net> Message-ID: The guides are built into a PDF at build-time - this is what you get under Help > User Guide. So you can search this just using your PDF viewer. On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 5:02 PM Mark Wieder via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On 05/18/2017 10:30 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: > >> Ah. So the dictionary isn't a good place to look for things. I'll > >> spend some time working my way through the language reference instead. > > > > Heh - as Ali said, the docs and such need a fair bit of work :) > > I'm rather disappointed that there's no way to search the guides. For > instance, to find out why the switch statement wasn't working in LCB, I > opened the LCB guide and found that the only way to discover this was to > read through the entire text. A simple control-F "switch" would have > either pinpointed the section or given no results. > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From hh at hyperhh.de Tue May 23 12:16:37 2017 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Tue, 23 May 2017 18:16:37 +0200 Subject: LC-Magick Collection Message-ID: <71B4A259-41AC-40C5-9054-1D84B5614D48@hyperhh.de> Added LC-Magick #9: SelectiveGray ("Pleasantville-/SinCity-effect") [hh] http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?p=154277#p154277 > LC-Magick #8 - MoonEffect (Ell. Distort./ 'Fisheye') [bn and hh] > http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?p=153159#p153159 > LC-Magick #7 - Cuboid (3D-Box 'wearing' images) [hh] > http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?p=153076#p153076 > LC-Magick #6 - Bilinear Perspective Image Distortion [bn and hh] > http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?p=150757#p150757 > LC-Magick #5 - Circular (Polar) Image Distortion [bn and hh] > http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?p=149999#p149999 > LC-Magick #4 - Linear Perspective Image Distortion [hh] > http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?p=148647#p148647 > LC-Magick #3 - Image Multiplexing [hh] > http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?p=141272#p141272 > LC-Magick #2 - Pointillize [hh] > http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?p=141051#p141051 > LC-Magick #1 - Blur and Pixelate [Scott R.] > http://tactilemedia.com/blog/2016/03/26/update-blur-effect-plus-pixelize-bonus/ Most of it is based on ideas presented in imageMagick's documentation http://www.imagemagick.org/Usage/ From ambassador at fourthworld.com Tue May 23 11:20:36 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue, 23 May 2017 08:20:36 -0700 Subject: Best Practice for updating the screen? In-Reply-To: <2706594a-728c-5100-6f6e-8a041c7041c0@fourthworld.com> References: <2706594a-728c-5100-6f6e-8a041c7041c0@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: A moment ago I had written: The need to use "wait 9 with messages" was recognized as a bug Of course that was a typo; s/b: The need to use "wait 0 with messages" was recognized as a bug -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From harrison at all-auctions.com Tue May 23 12:22:46 2017 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison) Date: Tue, 23 May 2017 12:22:46 -0400 Subject: LC Server - Upload Large Images? In-Reply-To: References: <8db55c1e0cfbd118e80564798b926b19@livecode.com> Message-ID: Hi there, I spent a few days, and performed a bunch of system upgrades. I upgraded my server up to macOS Sierra 10.12.5, the server software up to macOS Server 5.3.1, and reinstalled LC server version 8.1.4 RC 2. Now when I use: put specialFolderPath(?temporary?) I get the same results as the rest of you do, which is good! I did some experimentation and found that sysError 2 means that the file or folder wasn?t found. sysError 13 means that there was a permissions problem. I did a simple test using rename to move and rename a file from one folder such as default/OriginalFolder/FileToBeMoved.jpg to a folder called default/DestinationFolder/FileMoved.jpg which works just fine! When I try uploading the file to the server it goes into a folder starting with /tmp/zz0303s? and when I try to rename and move it, I get a sysError 20. I don?t know what sysError 20 is. When I tried to look it up online all I saw was a vague statement that it is possibly some kind of I/O error. I have a routine which will upload small image files which are less than 32,767kb in size which works fine, but it won?t work for any larger image files. I have been all over the internet looking for good examples of LC which can upload image files and I haven?t been able to get any of them to work. Does anyone have a good tested/working example of uploading large image files to an LC server using LC script they could share with me? This problem is really holding everything up for me and I need to move on. Thanks, Rick From tom at makeshyft.com Tue May 23 12:38:07 2017 From: tom at makeshyft.com (Tom Glod) Date: Tue, 23 May 2017 12:38:07 -0400 Subject: Best Practice for updating the screen? In-Reply-To: References: <2706594a-728c-5100-6f6e-8a041c7041c0@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: really?..... wait 0 with messages makes some sense .... but if we could retain responsiveness on long repeat loops without it ..then i am all game..... i guess i will search the bug repository. thanks for this ... important timing for me as i am optimizing some of my long and crutial handlers.. On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 11:20 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > A moment ago I had written: > > The need to use "wait 9 with messages" was recognized as a bug > > Of course that was a typo; s/b: > > The need to use "wait 0 with messages" was recognized as a bug > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From ahsoftware at sonic.net Tue May 23 12:39:41 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Tue, 23 May 2017 09:39:41 -0700 Subject: Writing Extensions In-Reply-To: References: <21c77d1f-670e-3e8c-7208-51423fc24188@sonic.net> <0daf672be301a7e1daf78c519a113e31@livecode.com> <00d46d75-336a-d312-4220-a0ce3c66acca@sonic.net> Message-ID: <9571f4ee-aef7-2d7c-e560-be1a4fe88b8d@sonic.net> On 05/23/2017 09:08 AM, Ali Lloyd via use-livecode wrote: > The guides are built into a PDF at build-time - this is what you get under > Help > User Guide. So you can search this just using your PDF viewer. No. You can't. A: bringing up the LCB guide from Help > All Guides > Guide tab > LiveCode Builder Language Reference brings up the guide in the dictionary viewer, from which there is no search feature. B: bringing up the LCB guide from Help > User Guide does bring up the pdf viewer version, but that's a single 653-page document. You can't limit a search to just one section, e.g., search for "switch" in just LCB. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From ali.lloyd at livecode.com Tue May 23 12:41:15 2017 From: ali.lloyd at livecode.com (Ali Lloyd) Date: Tue, 23 May 2017 16:41:15 +0000 Subject: Writing Extensions In-Reply-To: <9571f4ee-aef7-2d7c-e560-be1a4fe88b8d@sonic.net> References: <21c77d1f-670e-3e8c-7208-51423fc24188@sonic.net> <0daf672be301a7e1daf78c519a113e31@livecode.com> <00d46d75-336a-d312-4220-a0ce3c66acca@sonic.net> <9571f4ee-aef7-2d7c-e560-be1a4fe88b8d@sonic.net> Message-ID: Well, you have a very different definition of can't to me then. On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 5:39 PM Mark Wieder via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On 05/23/2017 09:08 AM, Ali Lloyd via use-livecode wrote: > > The guides are built into a PDF at build-time - this is what you get > under > > Help > User Guide. So you can search this just using your PDF viewer. > > No. You can't. > > A: bringing up the LCB guide from Help > All Guides > Guide tab > > LiveCode Builder Language Reference brings up the guide in the > dictionary viewer, from which there is no search feature. > > B: bringing up the LCB guide from Help > User Guide does bring up the > pdf viewer version, but that's a single 653-page document. You can't > limit a search to just one section, e.g., search for "switch" in just LCB. > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From mark at canelasoftware.com Tue May 23 12:47:52 2017 From: mark at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto) Date: Tue, 23 May 2017 09:47:52 -0700 Subject: LC-Magick Collection In-Reply-To: <71B4A259-41AC-40C5-9054-1D84B5614D48@hyperhh.de> References: <71B4A259-41AC-40C5-9054-1D84B5614D48@hyperhh.de> Message-ID: <52D5AC41-96F2-4D8C-8D49-B6A07CFC677B@canelasoftware.com> On May 23, 2017, at 9:16 AM, hh via use-livecode wrote: > > Added LC-Magick #9: > SelectiveGray ("Pleasantville-/SinCity-effect") [hh] > http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?p=154277#p154277 > >> LC-Magick #8 - MoonEffect (Ell. Distort./ 'Fisheye') [bn and hh] >> http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?p=153159#p153159 >> LC-Magick #7 - Cuboid (3D-Box 'wearing' images) [hh] >> http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?p=153076#p153076 >> LC-Magick #6 - Bilinear Perspective Image Distortion [bn and hh] >> http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?p=150757#p150757 >> LC-Magick #5 - Circular (Polar) Image Distortion [bn and hh] >> http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?p=149999#p149999 >> LC-Magick #4 - Linear Perspective Image Distortion [hh] >> http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?p=148647#p148647 >> LC-Magick #3 - Image Multiplexing [hh] >> http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?p=141272#p141272 >> LC-Magick #2 - Pointillize [hh] >> http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?p=141051#p141051 >> LC-Magick #1 - Blur and Pixelate [Scott R.] >> http://tactilemedia.com/blog/2016/03/26/update-blur-effect-plus-pixelize-bonus/ > > Most of it is based on ideas presented in imageMagick's documentation > http://www.imagemagick.org/Usage/ Really awesome stuff! Thanks for sharing :) Best regards, Mark Talluto livecloud.io canelasoftware.com From ahsoftware at sonic.net Tue May 23 12:49:04 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Tue, 23 May 2017 09:49:04 -0700 Subject: Writing Extensions In-Reply-To: References: <21c77d1f-670e-3e8c-7208-51423fc24188@sonic.net> <0daf672be301a7e1daf78c519a113e31@livecode.com> <00d46d75-336a-d312-4220-a0ce3c66acca@sonic.net> <9571f4ee-aef7-2d7c-e560-be1a4fe88b8d@sonic.net> Message-ID: <20830f01-7ccb-bbbc-b8b8-652ee0cc2ec4@sonic.net> On 05/23/2017 09:41 AM, Ali Lloyd via use-livecode wrote: > Well, you have a very different definition of can't to me then. LOL Can't in this sense for me involves getting useful results. What do you get when you search for "switch"? -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From mark at livecode.com Tue May 23 12:49:16 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Tue, 23 May 2017 18:49:16 +0200 Subject: Writing Extensions In-Reply-To: <00d46d75-336a-d312-4220-a0ce3c66acca@sonic.net> References: <21c77d1f-670e-3e8c-7208-51423fc24188@sonic.net> <0daf672be301a7e1daf78c519a113e31@livecode.com> <00d46d75-336a-d312-4220-a0ce3c66acca@sonic.net> Message-ID: <320801ffe9a00bd55db908a5e63e9bc4@livecode.com> On 2017-05-23 18:02, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > I'm rather disappointed that there's no way to search the guides. For > instance, to find out why the switch statement wasn't working in LCB, > I opened the LCB guide and found that the only way to discover this > was to read through the entire text. A simple control-F "switch" would > have either pinpointed the section or given no results. Or you could try reading the LiveCode Builder Language Reference Guide - which gives a full account of all the definition and control structure syntax (modulo the occasional error - one which you pointed out the other day - bug reports for which would be most appreciated) ;) In regards to 'switch' - 'switch' in LiveCode copied the C 'switch' which is pretty much universally considered to be one of the worst designs of such a thing and we didn't want to repeat that 'mistake'. There are various other designs out there in various different languages; for now though 'if then/else if then/else if then/else/end if' isn't too bad a substitute if your condition var is just a var (and not an expression). Warmest Regards, Mark. P.S. I don't believe Python has 'switch' either, so it isn't 'only LCB' which doesn't - however, we do intend to add such a structure when we have time to design one without the flaws of the C model. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From ali.lloyd at livecode.com Tue May 23 12:50:57 2017 From: ali.lloyd at livecode.com (Ali Lloyd) Date: Tue, 23 May 2017 16:50:57 +0000 Subject: Writing Extensions In-Reply-To: <20830f01-7ccb-bbbc-b8b8-652ee0cc2ec4@sonic.net> References: <21c77d1f-670e-3e8c-7208-51423fc24188@sonic.net> <0daf672be301a7e1daf78c519a113e31@livecode.com> <00d46d75-336a-d312-4220-a0ce3c66acca@sonic.net> <9571f4ee-aef7-2d7c-e560-be1a4fe88b8d@sonic.net> <20830f01-7ccb-bbbc-b8b8-652ee0cc2ec4@sonic.net> Message-ID: No results in the page ranges of the LCB language reference section. On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 5:49 PM Mark Wieder via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On 05/23/2017 09:41 AM, Ali Lloyd via use-livecode wrote: > > Well, you have a very different definition of can't to me then. > > LOL > Can't in this sense for me involves getting useful results. > What do you get when you search for "switch"? > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From mark at livecode.com Tue May 23 13:57:13 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Tue, 23 May 2017 19:57:13 +0200 Subject: Writing Extensions In-Reply-To: <9edeb6ce-2ce5-a0eb-49ec-ed402b56b063@sonic.net> References: <094526dc-005e-6184-fb1e-06f7e8eff405@sonic.net> <361e42d6a9c51fad99679cb9e12988fe@livecode.com> <9edeb6ce-2ce5-a0eb-49ec-ed402b56b063@sonic.net> Message-ID: <87c608dbdaf975d7df9aa29d7c7aac08@livecode.com> On 2017-05-23 17:53, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > I'm not doing this because it's fun. I'm stuck with parsing xml data, > and it's much uglier trying to treat it as a text stream, especially > with a subset of the xtalk chunking functions, than by using the > revXML functions in LCS. Yes - so LCB could do with a module which wraps libxml... > It might be useful to have a list of what xtalk features are available > in LCB, and possibly even more useful to have a list of the features > that *aren't* available in LCB. For instance, the lack of a switch > statement is both surprising and disappointing. What decisions were > made as to what language features to support / remove? That is the wrong way to look at things I think - it was never a question of 'what should we remove or add compared to LCS'. LCB is a language in its own right - indeed, you can write entire applications in LCB (and run them using the 'lc-run' tool)... Our 'vulcanbot' (the system which integrates our buildbot-based build system with github) is written entirely in LCB for example. The design of LCB has been influenced by a number of design principals (in no particular order, nor exhaustive): a) it should have fully customizable syntax (at least 'statically' - i.e. at the point the compiler is built) b) the syntax should be familiar to LCS c) operations should be strict (throw an error for indexing out of array bounds, for example, rather than throw an error) d) strong dynamic typing, with the aim that if fully typed, then an LCB module should be completely statically checkable e) enable interoperation with other languages to be defined *safely* f) allow modularity without co-operation g) it should run on a VM which could be shared with LCS h) it should have a type-system which could subsume LCS's type-system i) be a natural extension language for LCS (i.e. replace C++ as the main implementation language for LCS features) j) favour abstract patterns, rather than concrete features (as one can implement many concrete features from one abstract pattern) k) it should be possible to compile a full typed LCB program to 'native' code (for some definition of native) with performance commensurate to that you would get if you wrote in said 'native' tongue LCB is as much about trying to find the line between what we consider a very high level language (LCS) and what we consider to be a low level language (such as C) - blending the two together. It is influenced by many languages (principally LCS, admittedly) but perhaps is not quite like any specific one. At the end of the day I could go on at length here (what do you know, language design and implementation is probably my biggest computing interest ;) ); however, I'll leave it as an 'interesting exercise for the reader' to consider what becomes possible if we can (at the very least) achieve to the full extent possible principals (a), (g), (h) and (k)... Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From ali.lloyd at livecode.com Tue May 23 14:41:15 2017 From: ali.lloyd at livecode.com (Ali Lloyd) Date: Tue, 23 May 2017 18:41:15 +0000 Subject: Writing Extensions In-Reply-To: <87c608dbdaf975d7df9aa29d7c7aac08@livecode.com> References: <094526dc-005e-6184-fb1e-06f7e8eff405@sonic.net> <361e42d6a9c51fad99679cb9e12988fe@livecode.com> <9edeb6ce-2ce5-a0eb-49ec-ed402b56b063@sonic.net> <87c608dbdaf975d7df9aa29d7c7aac08@livecode.com> Message-ID: Another way to search individual guides is to search the markdown files on GitHub: https://github.com/livecode/livecode/tree/develop/docs/guides and https://github.com/livecode/livecode-ide/tree/develop/Documentation/guides. Again, not ideal. There's an outstanding enhancement request for full-text search of all the guides: http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15957 I've just added http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19728 for quick search of the currently viewed guide in the IDE. On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 6:57 PM Mark Waddingham via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On 2017-05-23 17:53, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > > I'm not doing this because it's fun. I'm stuck with parsing xml data, > > and it's much uglier trying to treat it as a text stream, especially > > with a subset of the xtalk chunking functions, than by using the > > revXML functions in LCS. > > Yes - so LCB could do with a module which wraps libxml... > > > It might be useful to have a list of what xtalk features are available > > in LCB, and possibly even more useful to have a list of the features > > that *aren't* available in LCB. For instance, the lack of a switch > > statement is both surprising and disappointing. What decisions were > > made as to what language features to support / remove? > > That is the wrong way to look at things I think - it was never a > question > of 'what should we remove or add compared to LCS'. > > LCB is a language in its own right - indeed, you can write entire > applications > in LCB (and run them using the 'lc-run' tool)... Our 'vulcanbot' (the > system > which integrates our buildbot-based build system with github) is written > entirely > in LCB for example. > > The design of LCB has been influenced by a number of design principals > (in no > particular order, nor exhaustive): > > a) it should have fully customizable syntax (at least 'statically' - > i.e. at the point the compiler is built) > > b) the syntax should be familiar to LCS > > c) operations should be strict (throw an error for indexing out of > array bounds, for example, rather than throw an error) > > d) strong dynamic typing, with the aim that if fully typed, then an > LCB module should be completely statically checkable > > e) enable interoperation with other languages to be defined *safely* > > f) allow modularity without co-operation > > g) it should run on a VM which could be shared with LCS > > h) it should have a type-system which could subsume LCS's type-system > > i) be a natural extension language for LCS (i.e. replace C++ as the > main implementation language for LCS features) > > j) favour abstract patterns, rather than concrete features (as one > can implement many concrete features from one abstract pattern) > > k) it should be possible to compile a full typed LCB program to > 'native' > code (for some definition of native) with performance commensurate > to that you would get if you wrote in said 'native' tongue > > LCB is as much about trying to find the line between what we consider a > very high level language (LCS) and what we consider to be a low level > language (such as C) - blending the two together. It is influenced by > many > languages (principally LCS, admittedly) but perhaps is not quite like > any > specific one. > > At the end of the day I could go on at length here (what do you know, > language design and implementation is probably my biggest computing > interest ;) ); however, I'll leave it as an 'interesting exercise for > the > reader' to consider what becomes possible if we can (at the very least) > achieve to the full extent possible principals (a), (g), (h) and (k)... > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > > -- > Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ > LiveCode: Everyone can create apps > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From ahsoftware at sonic.net Tue May 23 15:16:05 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Tue, 23 May 2017 12:16:05 -0700 Subject: Writing Extensions In-Reply-To: References: <094526dc-005e-6184-fb1e-06f7e8eff405@sonic.net> <361e42d6a9c51fad99679cb9e12988fe@livecode.com> <9edeb6ce-2ce5-a0eb-49ec-ed402b56b063@sonic.net> <87c608dbdaf975d7df9aa29d7c7aac08@livecode.com> Message-ID: <4efe5ca5-08c4-4238-a120-1dae28be3d05@sonic.net> On 05/23/2017 11:41 AM, Ali Lloyd via use-livecode wrote: > Another way to search individual guides is to search the markdown files on > GitHub: https://github.com/livecode/livecode/tree/develop/docs/guides and > https://github.com/livecode/livecode-ide/tree/develop/Documentation/guides. > Again, not ideal. There's an outstanding enhancement request for full-text > search of all the guides: http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15957 > > I've just added http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19728 for quick > search of the currently viewed guide in the IDE. Thanks. I just added comments to both those reports. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From harrison at all-auctions.com Tue May 23 17:32:21 2017 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison) Date: Tue, 23 May 2017 17:32:21 -0400 Subject: Email Working? In-Reply-To: <9571f4ee-aef7-2d7c-e560-be1a4fe88b8d@sonic.net> References: <21c77d1f-670e-3e8c-7208-51423fc24188@sonic.net> <0daf672be301a7e1daf78c519a113e31@livecode.com> <00d46d75-336a-d312-4220-a0ce3c66acca@sonic.net> <9571f4ee-aef7-2d7c-e560-be1a4fe88b8d@sonic.net> Message-ID: <20A642F3-1760-4B3E-94EB-39881016609F@all-auctions.com> Hi there, Yesterday, I couldn?t get any messages from this list at all, and anything I sent kept bouncing. Is everything working Ok for this list today? Thanks, Rick From bonnmike at gmail.com Tue May 23 18:01:44 2017 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Tue, 23 May 2017 16:01:44 -0600 Subject: Email Working? In-Reply-To: <20A642F3-1760-4B3E-94EB-39881016609F@all-auctions.com> References: <21c77d1f-670e-3e8c-7208-51423fc24188@sonic.net> <0daf672be301a7e1daf78c519a113e31@livecode.com> <00d46d75-336a-d312-4220-a0ce3c66acca@sonic.net> <9571f4ee-aef7-2d7c-e560-be1a4fe88b8d@sonic.net> <20A642F3-1760-4B3E-94EB-39881016609F@all-auctions.com> Message-ID: The list did indeed go boom, but yes its back now. On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 3:32 PM, Rick Harrison via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hi there, > > Yesterday, I couldn?t get any messages > from this list at all, and anything I sent > kept bouncing. Is everything working > Ok for this list today? > > Thanks, > > Rick > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From andre at andregarzia.com Tue May 23 18:12:57 2017 From: andre at andregarzia.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Tue, 23 May 2017 19:12:57 -0300 Subject: Upcoming LiveCode Advanced Application Architecture course Message-ID: Register your interest in the upcoming LiveCode Advanced Application Architecture course. In this course you will learn the best practices of LiveCode programming. Together, we'll explore the common patterns used by seasoned LiveCode developers while also studying approaches from the larger development world. By the end of this course, learners will have a solid foundation on how to improve their applications so that they are easier to maintain, friendlier to their users and faster to ship. Let's move from hobbyist to pro. I will make the course available with a discount before it is ready to gather feedback and help fund further development. https://goo.gl/forms/dGH3QLPj7PU1Ol5u1 Sneak peek pic from the course: http://i.imgur.com/RgeTtx4.png Cheers andre -- http://www.andregarzia.com -- All We Do Is Code. http://fon.nu -- minimalist url shortening service. From andre at andregarzia.com Tue May 23 18:30:13 2017 From: andre at andregarzia.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Tue, 23 May 2017 19:30:13 -0300 Subject: Sql problem In-Reply-To: <9694FB26-B521-4423-99D2-4831BDF91634@gmail.com> References: <9694FB26-B521-4423-99D2-4831BDF91634@gmail.com> Message-ID: William, If I may add a bit of personal opinion here... so, I have been using and storing LC stuff in databases for a long time. Not only I have been storing arrays in database but I had them flying over TCP sockets and being decoded/encoded as needed. For a long time I used the same approach as you, which is to arrayEncode + base64 the array. I don't do that any longer. That combination is very hard to debug. I would advise you simply to use JSON and store it as JSON on the db. Instead of encoding the array twice, you do it only once with jsonexport() and then when importing, you do it only once with jsonimport() Not only that reduces complexity but it also makes it a lot easier to debug. As a bonus, your data can be consumed by other applications which are not based on LC which may open a whole ecosystem of plugins and interoperation to your product. Cheers andre On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 9:45 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Never mind. I got it working. I?m not exactly sure about the problem > because the method I used should have been quite general. However, what > made it work is that I had the contents of a list field in the array I was > storing and that somehow caused an error when I tried to decode the array. > I deleted that array key, because there was no reason I needed to have it > in the db anyway, and it worked. > > I?ll look into why and report back if I find anything interesting. > Best, > Bill > > > On May 21, 2017, at 5:23 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > Whoops, I lied. > > The data is stored incorrectly in the simulator too. > > Hmm?. > > The IDE stores it correctly. There is something in the encoding that I?m > missing. > > Bill > > > >> On May 21, 2017, at 5:03 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> > >> Folks: > >> I have an app that stores data to a mysql database on my server. It > works fine in the IDE and in the iPhone simulator. However, when I load the > app onto the iPhone, the saved data is corrupted. > >> > >> I am saving an array. The array is saved in a big string that has been > base64 encoded. > >> > >> When saving, I do: > >> > >> put arrayEncode(tArray) into tData > >> > >> put base64encode(tData) into xData > >> > >> put urlEncode(xData) into xData > >> > >> xData is sent to the db > >> > >> When I read back the data, I do the inverse: > >> > >> urlDecode > >> base64Decode > >> arrayDecode > >> > >> The base64 data on the db is different when I store it from the iPhone. > I can see this with Navicat, which I use for db management. So, the problem > is in the storing of the data. > >> > >> What the heck? I am just using a post command to a php script that > writes to the db. > >> > >> Why would the iPhone data that is sent be different from that sent in > the simulator? > >> > >> Mac OSX 10.12.4, Livecode 8.1.4 (rc2) and XCode 8.3. > >> > >> Any suggestions would be welcome. > >> Thanks, > >> Bill P. > >> > >> William A. Prothero > >> http://earthlearningsolution.org/ > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- http://www.andregarzia.com -- All We Do Is Code. http://fon.nu -- minimalist url shortening service. From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Tue May 23 18:39:46 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Tue, 23 May 2017 17:39:46 -0500 Subject: breakpoint on parameter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 5/23/17 10:36 AM, Matt Maier via use-livecode wrote: > I want to find out which parts of my code are making changes to a control's > parameter. Specifically, I've got an arrow that I want to be black, and it > is black when it's created, but then it turns gray. I can't find the script > that's turning it gray. > > I don't know where to put a breakpoint in the script. > > Can I put a breakpoint on that control's color parameter, so execution > stops whenever something modifies it and goes to the script that's doing > the modification? You can't break for a parameter per se, only at a specified line of script. (There are ways to break when certain variables change but that's different.) What I'd do is use the Find and Replaced dialog in the Edit menu to search for a relevant term. If you are using the color constant "gray" then search for that, otherwise search for the RGB value. Set the checkboxes to search only the scripts. You'll get a list of all script references to the color and you can either break at those lines, or just look at them to see which ones are making the change. You could also do a script search for the control's name and check every instance of that. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From capellan2000 at gmail.com Tue May 23 19:03:45 2017 From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada) Date: Tue, 23 May 2017 19:03:45 -0400 Subject: Writing Extensions Message-ID: Mark Waddinghan wrote: > At the end of the day I could go on at length here > (what do you know, language design and implementation > is probably my biggest computing interest ;) ); however, > I'll leave it as an 'interesting exercise for the reader' > to consider what becomes possible if we can > (at the very least) achieve to the full extent possible > principals (a), (g), (h) and (k)... Mark, now that you ask us to employ our imagination to consider the potential of LiveCode Builder then I keep wondering about this idea: What could be the final result if LiveCode hires Tom Pittman as Consultant to participate in LCB creation? http://www.ittybittycomputers.com/IttyBitty/CompileIt/ Al From waprothero at gmail.com Tue May 23 20:10:08 2017 From: waprothero at gmail.com (William Prothero) Date: Tue, 23 May 2017 17:10:08 -0700 Subject: Sql problem In-Reply-To: References: <9694FB26-B521-4423-99D2-4831BDF91634@gmail.com> Message-ID: Andre, This is good advice. I did it this way as a shortcut for an app I?ve built for myself only. You are right that it makes debugging harder because I can?t use other management applications to examine the contents. For many years now I?ve used php cgi?s to connect to the remote mysql db and it works well. I just haven?t spent the time to set up JSON. But it looks like I could dispense with the php and directly access the mySQL db from my mobile app, without a cgi? Best, Bill > On May 23, 2017, at 3:30 PM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode wrote: > > William, > > If I may add a bit of personal opinion here... so, I have been using and > storing LC stuff in databases for a long time. Not only I have been storing > arrays in database but I had them flying over TCP sockets and being > decoded/encoded as needed. For a long time I used the same approach as you, > which is to arrayEncode + base64 the array. > > I don't do that any longer. That combination is very hard to debug. I would > advise you simply to use JSON and store it as JSON on the db. Instead of > encoding the array twice, you do it only once with jsonexport() and then > when importing, you do it only once with jsonimport() > > Not only that reduces complexity but it also makes it a lot easier to > debug. As a bonus, your data can be consumed by other applications which > are not based on LC which may open a whole ecosystem of plugins and > interoperation to your product. > > Cheers > andre > > > On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 9:45 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> Never mind. I got it working. I?m not exactly sure about the problem >> because the method I used should have been quite general. However, what >> made it work is that I had the contents of a list field in the array I was >> storing and that somehow caused an error when I tried to decode the array. >> I deleted that array key, because there was no reason I needed to have it >> in the db anyway, and it worked. >> >> I?ll look into why and report back if I find anything interesting. >> Best, >> Bill >> >>> On May 21, 2017, at 5:23 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> >>> Whoops, I lied. >>> The data is stored incorrectly in the simulator too. >>> Hmm?. >>> The IDE stores it correctly. There is something in the encoding that I?m >> missing. >>> Bill >>> >>>> On May 21, 2017, at 5:03 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Folks: >>>> I have an app that stores data to a mysql database on my server. It >> works fine in the IDE and in the iPhone simulator. However, when I load the >> app onto the iPhone, the saved data is corrupted. >>>> >>>> I am saving an array. The array is saved in a big string that has been >> base64 encoded. >>>> >>>> When saving, I do: >>>> >>>> put arrayEncode(tArray) into tData >>>> >>>> put base64encode(tData) into xData >>>> >>>> put urlEncode(xData) into xData >>>> >>>> xData is sent to the db >>>> >>>> When I read back the data, I do the inverse: >>>> >>>> urlDecode >>>> base64Decode >>>> arrayDecode >>>> >>>> The base64 data on the db is different when I store it from the iPhone. >> I can see this with Navicat, which I use for db management. So, the problem >> is in the storing of the data. >>>> >>>> What the heck? I am just using a post command to a php script that >> writes to the db. >>>> >>>> Why would the iPhone data that is sent be different from that sent in >> the simulator? >>>> >>>> Mac OSX 10.12.4, Livecode 8.1.4 (rc2) and XCode 8.3. >>>> >>>> Any suggestions would be welcome. >>>> Thanks, >>>> Bill P. >>>> >>>> William A. Prothero >>>> http://earthlearningsolution.org/ >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > > -- > http://www.andregarzia.com -- All We Do Is Code. > http://fon.nu -- minimalist url shortening service. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dochawk at gmail.com Tue May 23 20:54:05 2017 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Tue, 23 May 2017 17:54:05 -0700 Subject: breakpoint on parameter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 3:39 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > (There are ways to break when certain variables change but that's > different.) Has that bug ever been fixed? I never found the IDE crashing a useful way to debug :) -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From andre at andregarzia.com Tue May 23 20:53:56 2017 From: andre at andregarzia.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Tue, 23 May 2017 21:53:56 -0300 Subject: Sql problem In-Reply-To: References: <9694FB26-B521-4423-99D2-4831BDF91634@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 9:10 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > But it looks like I could dispense with the php and directly access the > mySQL db from my mobile app, without a cgi? William, You could but it is not a good security practice to expose a mysql database to the larger internet. The internet is very hostile and keeping your mysql server safe would be a job on its own. Best you use your php cgi or anything else to put a wall between your database and the net. Never, ever, expose a database server. Thats a golden rule. Now, if you're building something that is for internal use on a LAN, business network, intranet, then the rules are different, even though, even in this case, I would put something in front of the database if it was up to me to make such decision. Cheers andre -- http://www.andregarzia.com -- All We Do Is Code. http://fon.nu -- minimalist url shortening service. From jonathandlynch at gmail.com Tue May 23 20:55:39 2017 From: jonathandlynch at gmail.com (jonathandlynch at gmail.com) Date: Tue, 23 May 2017 20:55:39 -0400 Subject: Sql problem In-Reply-To: References: <9694FB26-B521-4423-99D2-4831BDF91634@gmail.com> Message-ID: <76703D9C-5F0A-43DF-ACD2-41686F7F7502@gmail.com> One quick note about base64encode: LC adds linefeeds. After you base64encode, you may need to replace linefeed with empty in the variable. Sent from my iPhone > On May 23, 2017, at 8:10 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode wrote: > > Andre, > This is good advice. I did it this way as a shortcut for an app I?ve built for myself only. You are right that it makes debugging harder because I can?t use other management applications to examine the contents. > > For many years now I?ve used php cgi?s to connect to the remote mysql db and it works well. I just haven?t spent the time to set up JSON. > > But it looks like I could dispense with the php and directly access the mySQL db from my mobile app, without a cgi? > > Best, > Bill > >> On May 23, 2017, at 3:30 PM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode wrote: >> >> William, >> >> If I may add a bit of personal opinion here... so, I have been using and >> storing LC stuff in databases for a long time. Not only I have been storing >> arrays in database but I had them flying over TCP sockets and being >> decoded/encoded as needed. For a long time I used the same approach as you, >> which is to arrayEncode + base64 the array. >> >> I don't do that any longer. That combination is very hard to debug. I would >> advise you simply to use JSON and store it as JSON on the db. Instead of >> encoding the array twice, you do it only once with jsonexport() and then >> when importing, you do it only once with jsonimport() >> >> Not only that reduces complexity but it also makes it a lot easier to >> debug. As a bonus, your data can be consumed by other applications which >> are not based on LC which may open a whole ecosystem of plugins and >> interoperation to your product. >> >> Cheers >> andre >> >> >> On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 9:45 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >>> Never mind. I got it working. I?m not exactly sure about the problem >>> because the method I used should have been quite general. However, what >>> made it work is that I had the contents of a list field in the array I was >>> storing and that somehow caused an error when I tried to decode the array. >>> I deleted that array key, because there was no reason I needed to have it >>> in the db anyway, and it worked. >>> >>> I?ll look into why and report back if I find anything interesting. >>> Best, >>> Bill >>> >>>> On May 21, 2017, at 5:23 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Whoops, I lied. >>>> The data is stored incorrectly in the simulator too. >>>> Hmm?. >>>> The IDE stores it correctly. There is something in the encoding that I?m >>> missing. >>>> Bill >>>> >>>>> On May 21, 2017, at 5:03 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Folks: >>>>> I have an app that stores data to a mysql database on my server. It >>> works fine in the IDE and in the iPhone simulator. However, when I load the >>> app onto the iPhone, the saved data is corrupted. >>>>> >>>>> I am saving an array. The array is saved in a big string that has been >>> base64 encoded. >>>>> >>>>> When saving, I do: >>>>> >>>>> put arrayEncode(tArray) into tData >>>>> >>>>> put base64encode(tData) into xData >>>>> >>>>> put urlEncode(xData) into xData >>>>> >>>>> xData is sent to the db >>>>> >>>>> When I read back the data, I do the inverse: >>>>> >>>>> urlDecode >>>>> base64Decode >>>>> arrayDecode >>>>> >>>>> The base64 data on the db is different when I store it from the iPhone. >>> I can see this with Navicat, which I use for db management. So, the problem >>> is in the storing of the data. >>>>> >>>>> What the heck? I am just using a post command to a php script that >>> writes to the db. >>>>> >>>>> Why would the iPhone data that is sent be different from that sent in >>> the simulator? >>>>> >>>>> Mac OSX 10.12.4, Livecode 8.1.4 (rc2) and XCode 8.3. >>>>> >>>>> Any suggestions would be welcome. >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Bill P. >>>>> >>>>> William A. Prothero >>>>> http://earthlearningsolution.org/ >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> http://www.andregarzia.com -- All We Do Is Code. >> http://fon.nu -- minimalist url shortening service. >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Tue May 23 21:22:07 2017 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Tue, 23 May 2017 21:22:07 -0400 Subject: Sql problem In-Reply-To: <76703D9C-5F0A-43DF-ACD2-41686F7F7502@gmail.com> References: <9694FB26-B521-4423-99D2-4831BDF91634@gmail.com> <76703D9C-5F0A-43DF-ACD2-41686F7F7502@gmail.com> Message-ID: I have always replaced the linefeeds with a unique placeholder for transport, and switched it back to linefeeds in the server script. I didn't even consider replacing with empty. On May 23, 2017 8:55 PM, "Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode" < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > One quick note about base64encode: > > LC adds linefeeds. After you base64encode, you may need to replace > linefeed with empty in the variable. > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On May 23, 2017, at 8:10 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > Andre, > > This is good advice. I did it this way as a shortcut for an app I?ve > built for myself only. You are right that it makes debugging harder because > I can?t use other management applications to examine the contents. > > > > For many years now I?ve used php cgi?s to connect to the remote mysql db > and it works well. I just haven?t spent the time to set up JSON. > > > > But it looks like I could dispense with the php and directly access the > mySQL db from my mobile app, without a cgi? > > > > Best, > > Bill > > > >> On May 23, 2017, at 3:30 PM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> > >> William, > >> > >> If I may add a bit of personal opinion here... so, I have been using and > >> storing LC stuff in databases for a long time. Not only I have been > storing > >> arrays in database but I had them flying over TCP sockets and being > >> decoded/encoded as needed. For a long time I used the same approach as > you, > >> which is to arrayEncode + base64 the array. > >> > >> I don't do that any longer. That combination is very hard to debug. I > would > >> advise you simply to use JSON and store it as JSON on the db. Instead of > >> encoding the array twice, you do it only once with jsonexport() and then > >> when importing, you do it only once with jsonimport() > >> > >> Not only that reduces complexity but it also makes it a lot easier to > >> debug. As a bonus, your data can be consumed by other applications which > >> are not based on LC which may open a whole ecosystem of plugins and > >> interoperation to your product. > >> > >> Cheers > >> andre > >> > >> > >> On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 9:45 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode < > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> > >>> Never mind. I got it working. I?m not exactly sure about the problem > >>> because the method I used should have been quite general. However, what > >>> made it work is that I had the contents of a list field in the array I > was > >>> storing and that somehow caused an error when I tried to decode the > array. > >>> I deleted that array key, because there was no reason I needed to have > it > >>> in the db anyway, and it worked. > >>> > >>> I?ll look into why and report back if I find anything interesting. > >>> Best, > >>> Bill > >>> > >>>> On May 21, 2017, at 5:23 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode < > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Whoops, I lied. > >>>> The data is stored incorrectly in the simulator too. > >>>> Hmm?. > >>>> The IDE stores it correctly. There is something in the encoding that > I?m > >>> missing. > >>>> Bill > >>>> > >>>>> On May 21, 2017, at 5:03 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode < > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> Folks: > >>>>> I have an app that stores data to a mysql database on my server. It > >>> works fine in the IDE and in the iPhone simulator. However, when I > load the > >>> app onto the iPhone, the saved data is corrupted. > >>>>> > >>>>> I am saving an array. The array is saved in a big string that has > been > >>> base64 encoded. > >>>>> > >>>>> When saving, I do: > >>>>> > >>>>> put arrayEncode(tArray) into tData > >>>>> > >>>>> put base64encode(tData) into xData > >>>>> > >>>>> put urlEncode(xData) into xData > >>>>> > >>>>> xData is sent to the db > >>>>> > >>>>> When I read back the data, I do the inverse: > >>>>> > >>>>> urlDecode > >>>>> base64Decode > >>>>> arrayDecode > >>>>> > >>>>> The base64 data on the db is different when I store it from the > iPhone. > >>> I can see this with Navicat, which I use for db management. So, the > problem > >>> is in the storing of the data. > >>>>> > >>>>> What the heck? I am just using a post command to a php script that > >>> writes to the db. > >>>>> > >>>>> Why would the iPhone data that is sent be different from that sent in > >>> the simulator? > >>>>> > >>>>> Mac OSX 10.12.4, Livecode 8.1.4 (rc2) and XCode 8.3. > >>>>> > >>>>> Any suggestions would be welcome. > >>>>> Thanks, > >>>>> Bill P. > >>>>> > >>>>> William A. Prothero > >>>>> http://earthlearningsolution.org/ > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> use-livecode mailing list > >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >>> subscription preferences: > >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> use-livecode mailing list > >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >>> subscription preferences: > >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> use-livecode mailing list > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >>> subscription preferences: > >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> http://www.andregarzia.com -- All We Do Is Code. > >> http://fon.nu -- minimalist url shortening service. > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au Tue May 23 21:55:26 2017 From: terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 01:55:26 +0000 Subject: using tsNet external Message-ID: <1B3B0CB7-1322-45E3-8BDA-3B798C88973A@unimelb.edu.au> Couple of questions about the tsNet external... # if I?m just using get or post url (i.e. no special tsNet commands) do I still need to call tsNetInit? # what is the default timeout for a synchronous get or post url call, and how do I change it? TIA, Terry... From michael-kristensen at dsa-net.dk Wed May 24 03:17:43 2017 From: michael-kristensen at dsa-net.dk (Michael Kristensen) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 09:17:43 +0200 Subject: Accesing Mac file icons Message-ID: Hi there There is some pretty big icons that show the content of a mac file. Fx graphics files show a picture of the actual graphic in the file. Is it possible to acces that icon or picture from livecode? Thanks Michael From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Wed May 24 04:19:06 2017 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 18:19:06 +1000 Subject: Writing Extensions In-Reply-To: <320801ffe9a00bd55db908a5e63e9bc4@livecode.com> References: <21c77d1f-670e-3e8c-7208-51423fc24188@sonic.net> <0daf672be301a7e1daf78c519a113e31@livecode.com> <00d46d75-336a-d312-4220-a0ce3c66acca@sonic.net> <320801ffe9a00bd55db908a5e63e9bc4@livecode.com> Message-ID: On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 2:49 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: > On 2017-05-23 18:02, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > > In regards to 'switch' - 'switch' in LiveCode copied the C 'switch' which > is pretty much universally considered to be one of the worst designs of > such a thing and we didn't want to repeat that 'mistake'. > I apologise for straying off topic but as one who found HyperCard to be a revelation, and then stumbled across Switch in Revolution and was just blown away (I'm pretty sure HC didn't have Switch) and now use it EVERY time I script I was wondering if you'd be kind enough to elaborate on what's wrong with LCs Switch. I tried to google 'faults with C implementation of switch statement' and other similar searches but didn't find any smoking gun: https://www.codeproject.com/Articles/100473/Something-You-May-Not-Know-About-the-Switch-Statem https://softwareengineering.stackexchange.com/questions/162615/why-dont-languages-use-explicit-fall-through-on-switch-statements In that last one the only inference I could find was that due to the probability that in 97% of use 'fall through' is not intended, a whole heap of typing could be saved if no keyword (break) was required for the 97%, and a keyword was only used to activate fall through. i.e. switch yourName case "Mark" -- do something break case "John" case "Jon" -- do somethingElse break case "Ali" -- do anotherThing break end switch would become switch yourName case "Mark" -- do something case "John" fall --or some other keyword case "Jon" -- do somethingElse case "Ali" -- do anotherThing end switch 11 less character to write. Is this the only problem with the current implementation of Switch? From mark at livecode.com Wed May 24 06:03:18 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 12:03:18 +0200 Subject: Writing Extensions In-Reply-To: References: <21c77d1f-670e-3e8c-7208-51423fc24188@sonic.net> <0daf672be301a7e1daf78c519a113e31@livecode.com> <00d46d75-336a-d312-4220-a0ce3c66acca@sonic.net> <320801ffe9a00bd55db908a5e63e9bc4@livecode.com> Message-ID: Hi Kay On 2017-05-24 10:19, Kay C Lan via use-livecode wrote: > In that last one the only inference I could find was that due to the > probability that in 97% of use 'fall through' is not intended, a whole > heap of typing could be saved if no keyword (break) was required for > the 97%, and a keyword was only used to activate fall through. i.e. > > switch yourName > case "Mark" > -- do something > break > case "John" > case "Jon" > -- do somethingElse > break > case "Ali" > -- do anotherThing > break > end switch > > would become > > switch yourName > case "Mark" > -- do something > case "John" > fall --or some other keyword > case "Jon" > -- do somethingElse > case "Ali" > -- do anotherThing > end switch > > > 11 less character to write. Is this the only problem with the current > implementation of Switch? Okay so I was perhaps a little vociferous in what I said... However, fallthrough is the key problem - there have been numerous subtle bugs in the engine due to it (similarly, switch statements without 'default' can cause subtle bugs too - if you add a value to an enum, but don't update all the switches which switch on it). Perhaps a better model would be to use 'continue', rather than 'break': switch yourName case "Mark" -- do something and finish case "John" continue case "Jon" -- do something else end switch The idea being that 'continue' in a case, jumps to the next choice to check. This works particularly nicely when you don't have an expression, so the cases can be expressions as that essentially gives you a 'match' type construct with back-tracking (quite useful for processing hierarchical arrays and transforming them - a common operation in writing compilers, for example). However, it would probably be better to change the switch syntax to use different keywords (perhaps choice?). The 'switch'/'case'/'break' paradigm is so ubiquitous (due to C) that making it work differently would be very jarring. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mark at livecode.com Wed May 24 06:25:05 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 12:25:05 +0200 Subject: Writing Extensions In-Reply-To: References: <21c77d1f-670e-3e8c-7208-51423fc24188@sonic.net> <0daf672be301a7e1daf78c519a113e31@livecode.com> <00d46d75-336a-d312-4220-a0ce3c66acca@sonic.net> <320801ffe9a00bd55db908a5e63e9bc4@livecode.com> Message-ID: <9ccdba466c38c5609143cb874ca4ff08@livecode.com> On 2017-05-24 12:03, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: > Perhaps a better model would be to use 'continue', rather than 'break': > > switch yourName > case "Mark" > -- do something and finish > case "John" > continue > case "Jon" > -- do something else > end switch > > The idea being that 'continue' in a case, jumps to the next choice to > check. This works particularly nicely when you don't have an > expression, so the cases can be expressions as that essentially gives > you a 'match' type construct with back-tracking (quite useful for > processing hierarchical arrays and transforming them - a common > operation in writing compilers, for example). Okay, so that isn't quite right - for a switch-on-value switch, continue would have to continue into the top the next case, ignoring the case value which is not quite the same as it would be in switch-on-case-expr switch. Certainly a 'fallthrough' type keyword would work... However, stepping back and looking at the utility of switch. I'd say that in almost all cases you either want to: 1) Map a single case to a block of code 2) Map multiple cases to a block of code The use-case which causes subtle bugs and errors is where one case requires a 'bit more code' before the others (where code, fallthrough, code is *not* erroneous but intended) - also it is a rarely used pattern in C (because it is difficult to maintain). Taking this into account, then perhaps a better solution would be ('choose' used here for the sake of argument): choose tValue when 1 when 2 when 3 -- executes if tValue is 1, 2 or 3 -- never falls through when 4 -- never falls through default end choose This caters for both cases (1) and (2) and is unambiguous. As I said before, the lack of switch in LCB isn't because we don't want a construct like that; just that we'd like one which doesn't have the issues of C-style switch. (The best way to avoid people accidentally introducing subtle bugs, is to ensure the language is designed to not let them do so!). Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From hh at hyperhh.de Wed May 24 06:35:28 2017 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 12:35:28 +0200 Subject: Writing Extensions Message-ID: <741ED1EE-410C-49F5-AB49-1994B35C0B39@hyperhh.de> Switch in LCB -- Monte asked to have the opportunity to do the job: http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?p=131509#p131509 From toolbook at kestner.de Wed May 24 07:56:48 2017 From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 13:56:48 +0200 Subject: LC 8.1.4 - referenced images doesn't load anymore Message-ID: <002801d2d484$d52e2b30$7f8a8190$@kestner.de> Hello, Has anybody experienced the same? An image, which filename is referenced to the Resources folder, doesn't load anymore in LC 8.1.4 rc1 + 2 in a Mac Standalone. In LC 8.1.3 it works fine on Mac. In both versions the image is being copied into the bundle folder: /content/Resources/_MacOS/Resources/ when specified in the standalone settings On Win everything still works fine in 8.1.4. Thanks Tiemo From mark at livecode.com Wed May 24 08:13:25 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 14:13:25 +0200 Subject: English =?UTF-8?Q?Like=3F?= In-Reply-To: <87287AF1-9463-42DB-B866-3277490A100F@gmail.com> References: <87287AF1-9463-42DB-B866-3277490A100F@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 2017-05-17 22:41, William Prothero via use-livecode wrote: > Folks: > It can be difficult for long term users of an application to > appreciate the ?exceptions? to the philosophy of a dev app. I think > the livecode community is affected by ?familiarity? over clarity > sometimes. For years (when Director was a viable dev platform), I had > a negative feeling about Hypercard type syntax. I had done some pretty > extensive programming in Hypercard and Supercard too. I liked the way > Director worked. I liked that it did not insult my intelligence by > requiring ?put 3 into x? instead of the universal "x=3? syntax that > all algebra students lewarn in gradeschool, When Director died, I > looked around, held my nose, and jumped to livecode, and now I?m glad > I jumped that initial negative barrier. But, I take exception to the > many claims that livecode is ?english-like? (in spite of the many > ?english-like? commands), especially if you want to do the advanced > work that most of the users do. Finally getting around to responding to this, as it is something which interests me... Specifically, we often hear about how LC's syntax 'insults intelligence' or is 'babyish' etc. However, I have to say that I've never understood *why* really. The only two reasons I really come up with are: 1) The 'high-priest' argument: programming languages should use somewhat arcane and obscure means of expression so that it limits who would want to / can use them. 2) The 'burnt by limited English-like systems in the past' argument: the incorrect association between being 'English-like' syntax wise, and not being a full, general, programming environment (the point here being the limits are in the implementations, not in the concept). I'd be really quite interested to know what other people think here. In particular, the use of 'put X into Y' rather than 'X = Y' comes up periodically. The mathematician in me has to point out that the argument that 'X = Y' is 'better because we learn it in algebra' is technically erroneous. Algebra (and mathematics in general) operates on pure substitution - all values are singletons and the *only* thing which is equal to any value, is the value itself. Put another way, algebra does not have 'variables' in the sense we mean it in computing, 'X = 3' really does mean that X *is* 3, not that it should have 3 assigned to it, hence in a mathematical expression you can replace every occurrence of X *with* 3. (Modelling computer languages in the pure world of mathematics requires a bit of mental leap - what we consider a procedure is transformed into a function on the set of all possible states of the computer it is running on, rather than as sequential actions which occur on a single mutable state). Indeed, many languages choose ':=' for assignment and not '=' for this reason (it also means you don't have to use '==' for equality, and can use '=' which is a much better fit with what we do learn in Algebra). Okay, so back to the point, if one wants a language to be readable and easily understandable it needs to be consistent. So, in isolation, perhaps have 'X := Y' for assignment might seem more economic. However, LiveCode's 'put' command is actually a fair bit more flexible. You can do: put X into Y put X after Y put X before Y So if you have code which does: put "foo" after X put X into Y put "bar" before Y You end up with: put "foo" after X Y := X put "bar" before Y Here you end up having to do mental contortions because the sense of the 'before' and 'after' forms are opposite to the assignment (copy) form - easy readability vanishes. In particular, put flows from left to right, in contrast to the right to leftness of ':='. Certainly one could replace 'put X into Y' with 'X := Y', and even 'put X after Y' with 'X &= Y' - but what about before? 'X =& Y'? e.g. X &= "foo" Y := X Y =& "bar" This looks really quite subtle to me, much easier to miss that one is 'append' and the other is 'prepend'. One thing I think LiveCode does do because of its slightly more verbose syntax is that it encourages readability (and as a result perhaps more maintainability) in code - something which other languages do not directly... Indeed, writing C programs which are readable and maintainable can take a great deal of time to learn *how* to do well - the language in and of itself doesn't really help you much at all. (That isn't to say it isn't possible to write unreadable code in LiveCode, because it clearly is - muddy abstractions can cause that as much as the syntax itself, but I'd like to think that LiveCode lends itself to more readable code by default... As subjective as that might be!) Of course, LiveCode syntax isn't perfect - it has [] for array access for example - it might be nice to be able to do: put index 3 of tNumericArray into tFoo put the foo of tAssocArray into tBar Which is perhaps the way I'd suggest the language should go - replacing what we currently use symbols (operators) for with 'English-like' forms. It should be noted in all of this that syntax is just sugar (but don't take that as meaning that sugar isn't important - if you forget the sugar in recipes you often end up with inedible things). A handler such as: command Foo put the long id of control "Foo" into tVar put the backColor of tVar into tVarBackColor set the backColor of char 3 to 5 of field 3 to tVarBackColor end Foo Could be equivalently written (in a more 'traditional' syntax) as: void Foo() { tVar := control("Foo") tVarBackColor := tVar.backColor field(3).char(3, 5).backColor := tVarBackColor } Indeed, it is my feeling that (if there was value in doing so in the future) then a more 'traditional' variant syntax for LiveCode would be a better way to go than trying to mix 'English-like' syntax more with non-'English-like' syntax - that way you keep consistency within both 'syntax worlds', but still allow you to view them in either form. In this case it would be critically important to maintain direct 1-1 mappings between the two different syntaxes - neither would be more expressible than the other. That way, it would be a switch in the editor which form you see, thus meaning we wouldn't bifurcate the community in terms of what code people could and could not understand. (It should be noted that the semantics would be identical, a variant syntax might *look like* JavaScript, but it wouldn't actually be JavaScript which has quite different rules about how values work and flow). One of the achievements of the refactor we did (resulting in 7.0) was to ensure that there was a complete and clear split between the code which parses and dispatches LiveCode syntax, and the implementation of the action itself (all LiveCode's implementation of the action of syntax is now held in a large collection of C++ functions with well defined prototypes; rather than embedded in the VM's abstract syntax nodes). This work is one part of making this possible and various parts of the work done for LCB make up some other parts. It has gone from being something which could be considered a fantasy, into something which could be a reality. Indeed, at some point that might let us go further - allow LiveCode's full functionality to be accessed directly from *other* languages in a manner natural to them... This is the reverse of the Infinite LiveCode 'FFI' project but the abstract principal is the same - e.g. creating natural JavaScript bindings around LiveCode's functionality at the 'syntax action' level'. However, that is perhaps a story for another day... Just my two pence :) Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mark at livecode.com Wed May 24 08:21:26 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 14:21:26 +0200 Subject: Writing Extensions In-Reply-To: <741ED1EE-410C-49F5-AB49-1994B35C0B39@hyperhh.de> References: <741ED1EE-410C-49F5-AB49-1994B35C0B39@hyperhh.de> Message-ID: On 2017-05-24 12:35, hh via use-livecode wrote: > Switch in LCB -- Monte asked to have the opportunity to do the job: > http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?p=131509#p131509 Yes... I'm not sure I quite see your point (especially as he said 'Is there any chance switch will be implemented as a control structure.', not 'how would I implement...') :) So... Would some sort of switch statement be useful in LCB? Yes - it is a generally useful thing to have. Has anyone proposed *any* design yet which does not have the flaws (we'd like to avoid) in the C-switch mode? No (well until it came up on the list the other day - there's a conversation going on that topic now which might bear some fruit, at least in terms of a design). Is 'switch' more important than a number of other things we need to do to LCB to meet its goals? No I don't think it is because it is equivalent to if/elseif/.../endif and we have that. For example, right now more code economy (taking into account the current main uses of LCB in the LiveCode ecosystem) would probably be gained (for example) by adding a bridge between LiveCode script's string lists, and LCB's lists; or enumerations or ... There's a whole chasm between saying 'I want a switch control structure in LCB' and having a switch control structure in LCB. If there wasn't then no-one on this list who programs for a living would have a job - last time I checked I can't just ask my computer 'please implement the switch control structure in LCB' ;) Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Wed May 24 08:43:49 2017 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 08:43:49 -0400 Subject: English Like? In-Reply-To: References: <87287AF1-9463-42DB-B866-3277490A100F@gmail.com> Message-ID: One of the other things that the xtalk languages have that makes them more appealing is synonyms (and similarly, abbreviations), which makes it a much more personalized experience as a writer with fewer mental gymnastics. I tend to prefer the longer, more verbose forms when writing. I will open file/read from file/write to file/close file even though I could just use the URL-file form. I think it reads better, later, when I'm trying to figure out what I did. Some people prefer "cd", and I prefer "card". Think about the different ways to reference a group, or to write a comment. To Mark's comment on addressing arrays differently, the xTalk way would be to just add a different way, not change the existing way. Most of the code that most of us write will be managed and maintained by one person. It is therefore more important to give us more ways to say the same thing so that we can help our future self understand what we were thinking when we wrote the original. On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 8:13 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On 2017-05-17 22:41, William Prothero via use-livecode wrote: > >> Folks: >> It can be difficult for long term users of an application to >> appreciate the ?exceptions? to the philosophy of a dev app. I think >> the livecode community is affected by ?familiarity? over clarity >> sometimes. For years (when Director was a viable dev platform), I had >> a negative feeling about Hypercard type syntax. I had done some pretty >> extensive programming in Hypercard and Supercard too. I liked the way >> Director worked. I liked that it did not insult my intelligence by >> requiring ?put 3 into x? instead of the universal "x=3? syntax that >> all algebra students lewarn in gradeschool, When Director died, I >> looked around, held my nose, and jumped to livecode, and now I?m glad >> I jumped that initial negative barrier. But, I take exception to the >> many claims that livecode is ?english-like? (in spite of the many >> ?english-like? commands), especially if you want to do the advanced >> work that most of the users do. >> > > Finally getting around to responding to this, as it is something which > interests me... Specifically, we often hear about how LC's syntax > 'insults intelligence' or is 'babyish' etc. However, I have to say that > I've > never understood *why* really. > > The only two reasons I really come up with are: > > 1) The 'high-priest' argument: programming languages should use somewhat > arcane and obscure means of expression so that it limits who would want to > / can use them. > > 2) The 'burnt by limited English-like systems in the past' argument: the > incorrect association between being 'English-like' syntax wise, and not > being a full, general, programming environment (the point here being the > limits are in the implementations, not in the concept). > > I'd be really quite interested to know what other people think here. > > In particular, the use of 'put X into Y' rather than 'X = Y' comes up > periodically. > > > The mathematician in me has to point out that the argument that 'X = Y' is > 'better because we learn it in algebra' is technically erroneous. Algebra > (and mathematics in general) operates on pure substitution - all values are > singletons and the *only* thing which is equal to any value, is the value > itself. Put another way, algebra does not have 'variables' in the sense we > mean it in computing, 'X = 3' really does mean that X *is* 3, not that it > should have 3 assigned to it, hence in a mathematical expression you can > replace every occurrence of X *with* 3. (Modelling computer languages in > the pure world of mathematics requires a bit of mental leap - what we > consider a procedure is transformed into a function on the set of all > possible states of the computer it is running on, rather than as sequential > actions which occur on a single mutable state). Indeed, many languages > choose ':=' for assignment and not '=' for this reason (it also means you > don't have to use '==' for equality, and can use '=' which is a much better > fit with what we do learn in Algebra). > > > Okay, so back to the point, if one wants a language to be readable and > easily understandable it needs to be consistent. So, in isolation, perhaps > have 'X := Y' for assignment might seem more economic. However, LiveCode's > 'put' command is actually a fair bit more flexible. You can do: > > put X into Y > put X after Y > put X before Y > > So if you have code which does: > > put "foo" after X > put X into Y > put "bar" before Y > > You end up with: > > put "foo" after X > Y := X > put "bar" before Y > > Here you end up having to do mental contortions because the sense of the > 'before' and 'after' forms are opposite to the assignment (copy) form - > easy readability vanishes. In particular, put flows from left to right, in > contrast to the right to leftness of ':='. > > Certainly one could replace 'put X into Y' with 'X := Y', and even 'put X > after Y' with 'X &= Y' - but what about before? 'X =& Y'? e.g. > > X &= "foo" > Y := X > Y =& "bar" > > This looks really quite subtle to me, much easier to miss that one is > 'append' and the other is 'prepend'. > > One thing I think LiveCode does do because of its slightly more verbose > syntax is that it encourages readability (and as a result perhaps more > maintainability) in code - something which other languages do not > directly... Indeed, writing C programs which are readable and maintainable > can take a great deal of time to learn *how* to do well - the language in > and of itself doesn't really help you much at all. (That isn't to say it > isn't possible to write unreadable code in LiveCode, because it clearly is > - muddy abstractions can cause that as much as the syntax itself, but I'd > like to think that LiveCode lends itself to more readable code by > default... As subjective as that might be!) > > Of course, LiveCode syntax isn't perfect - it has [] for array access for > example - it might be nice to be > able to do: > > put index 3 of tNumericArray into tFoo > put the foo of tAssocArray into tBar > > Which is perhaps the way I'd suggest the language should go - replacing > what we currently use symbols (operators) for with 'English-like' forms. > > It should be noted in all of this that syntax is just sugar (but don't > take that as meaning that sugar isn't important - if you forget the sugar > in recipes you often end up with inedible things). A handler such as: > > command Foo > put the long id of control "Foo" into tVar > put the backColor of tVar into tVarBackColor > set the backColor of char 3 to 5 of field 3 to tVarBackColor > end Foo > > Could be equivalently written (in a more 'traditional' syntax) as: > > void Foo() > { > tVar := control("Foo") > tVarBackColor := tVar.backColor > field(3).char(3, 5).backColor := tVarBackColor > } > > Indeed, it is my feeling that (if there was value in doing so in the > future) then a more 'traditional' variant syntax for LiveCode would be a > better way to go than trying to mix 'English-like' syntax more with > non-'English-like' syntax - that way you keep consistency within both > 'syntax worlds', but still allow you to view them in either form. In this > case it would be critically important to maintain direct 1-1 mappings > between the two different syntaxes - neither would be more expressible than > the other. That way, it would be a switch in the editor which form you see, > thus meaning we wouldn't bifurcate the community in terms of what code > people could and could not understand. (It should be noted that the > semantics would be identical, a variant syntax might *look like* > JavaScript, but it wouldn't actually be JavaScript which has quite > different rules about how values work and flow). > > One of the achievements of the refactor we did (resulting in 7.0) was to > ensure that there was a complete and clear split between the code which > parses and dispatches LiveCode syntax, and the implementation of the action > itself (all LiveCode's implementation of the action of syntax is now held > in a large collection of C++ functions with well defined prototypes; rather > than embedded in the VM's abstract syntax nodes). This work is one part of > making this possible and various parts of the work done for LCB make up > some other parts. It has gone from being something which could be > considered a fantasy, into something which could be a reality. > > Indeed, at some point that might let us go further - allow LiveCode's full > functionality to be accessed directly from *other* languages in a manner > natural to them... This is the reverse of the Infinite LiveCode 'FFI' > project but the abstract principal is the same - e.g. creating natural > JavaScript bindings around LiveCode's functionality at the 'syntax action' > level'. However, that is perhaps a story for another day... > > Just my two pence :) > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > > > > -- > Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ > LiveCode: Everyone can create apps > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From iphonelagi at gmail.com Wed May 24 08:52:02 2017 From: iphonelagi at gmail.com (Lagi Pittas) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 13:52:02 +0100 Subject: English Like? In-Reply-To: References: <87287AF1-9463-42DB-B866-3277490A100F@gmail.com> Message-ID: Mark You are a big Tease. Lagi On 24 May 2017 at 13:13, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On 2017-05-17 22:41, William Prothero via use-livecode wrote: > >> Folks: >> It can be difficult for long term users of an application to >> appreciate the ?exceptions? to the philosophy of a dev app. I think >> the livecode community is affected by ?familiarity? over clarity >> sometimes. For years (when Director was a viable dev platform), I had >> a negative feeling about Hypercard type syntax. I had done some pretty >> extensive programming in Hypercard and Supercard too. I liked the way >> Director worked. I liked that it did not insult my intelligence by >> requiring ?put 3 into x? instead of the universal "x=3? syntax that >> all algebra students lewarn in gradeschool, When Director died, I >> looked around, held my nose, and jumped to livecode, and now I?m glad >> I jumped that initial negative barrier. But, I take exception to the >> many claims that livecode is ?english-like? (in spite of the many >> ?english-like? commands), especially if you want to do the advanced >> work that most of the users do. >> > > Finally getting around to responding to this, as it is something which > interests me... Specifically, we often hear about how LC's syntax > 'insults intelligence' or is 'babyish' etc. However, I have to say that > I've > never understood *why* really. > > The only two reasons I really come up with are: > > 1) The 'high-priest' argument: programming languages should use somewhat > arcane and obscure means of expression so that it limits who would want to > / can use them. > > 2) The 'burnt by limited English-like systems in the past' argument: the > incorrect association between being 'English-like' syntax wise, and not > being a full, general, programming environment (the point here being the > limits are in the implementations, not in the concept). > > I'd be really quite interested to know what other people think here. > > In particular, the use of 'put X into Y' rather than 'X = Y' comes up > periodically. > > > The mathematician in me has to point out that the argument that 'X = Y' is > 'better because we learn it in algebra' is technically erroneous. Algebra > (and mathematics in general) operates on pure substitution - all values are > singletons and the *only* thing which is equal to any value, is the value > itself. Put another way, algebra does not have 'variables' in the sense we > mean it in computing, 'X = 3' really does mean that X *is* 3, not that it > should have 3 assigned to it, hence in a mathematical expression you can > replace every occurrence of X *with* 3. (Modelling computer languages in > the pure world of mathematics requires a bit of mental leap - what we > consider a procedure is transformed into a function on the set of all > possible states of the computer it is running on, rather than as sequential > actions which occur on a single mutable state). Indeed, many languages > choose ':=' for assignment and not '=' for this reason (it also means you > don't have to use '==' for equality, and can use '=' which is a much better > fit with what we do learn in Algebra). > > > Okay, so back to the point, if one wants a language to be readable and > easily understandable it needs to be consistent. So, in isolation, perhaps > have 'X := Y' for assignment might seem more economic. However, LiveCode's > 'put' command is actually a fair bit more flexible. You can do: > > put X into Y > put X after Y > put X before Y > > So if you have code which does: > > put "foo" after X > put X into Y > put "bar" before Y > > You end up with: > > put "foo" after X > Y := X > put "bar" before Y > > Here you end up having to do mental contortions because the sense of the > 'before' and 'after' forms are opposite to the assignment (copy) form - > easy readability vanishes. In particular, put flows from left to right, in > contrast to the right to leftness of ':='. > > Certainly one could replace 'put X into Y' with 'X := Y', and even 'put X > after Y' with 'X &= Y' - but what about before? 'X =& Y'? e.g. > > X &= "foo" > Y := X > Y =& "bar" > > This looks really quite subtle to me, much easier to miss that one is > 'append' and the other is 'prepend'. > > One thing I think LiveCode does do because of its slightly more verbose > syntax is that it encourages readability (and as a result perhaps more > maintainability) in code - something which other languages do not > directly... Indeed, writing C programs which are readable and maintainable > can take a great deal of time to learn *how* to do well - the language in > and of itself doesn't really help you much at all. (That isn't to say it > isn't possible to write unreadable code in LiveCode, because it clearly is > - muddy abstractions can cause that as much as the syntax itself, but I'd > like to think that LiveCode lends itself to more readable code by > default... As subjective as that might be!) > > Of course, LiveCode syntax isn't perfect - it has [] for array access for > example - it might be nice to be > able to do: > > put index 3 of tNumericArray into tFoo > put the foo of tAssocArray into tBar > > Which is perhaps the way I'd suggest the language should go - replacing > what we currently use symbols (operators) for with 'English-like' forms. > > It should be noted in all of this that syntax is just sugar (but don't > take that as meaning that sugar isn't important - if you forget the sugar > in recipes you often end up with inedible things). A handler such as: > > command Foo > put the long id of control "Foo" into tVar > put the backColor of tVar into tVarBackColor > set the backColor of char 3 to 5 of field 3 to tVarBackColor > end Foo > > Could be equivalently written (in a more 'traditional' syntax) as: > > void Foo() > { > tVar := control("Foo") > tVarBackColor := tVar.backColor > field(3).char(3, 5).backColor := tVarBackColor > } > > Indeed, it is my feeling that (if there was value in doing so in the > future) then a more 'traditional' variant syntax for LiveCode would be a > better way to go than trying to mix 'English-like' syntax more with > non-'English-like' syntax - that way you keep consistency within both > 'syntax worlds', but still allow you to view them in either form. In this > case it would be critically important to maintain direct 1-1 mappings > between the two different syntaxes - neither would be more expressible than > the other. That way, it would be a switch in the editor which form you see, > thus meaning we wouldn't bifurcate the community in terms of what code > people could and could not understand. (It should be noted that the > semantics would be identical, a variant syntax might *look like* > JavaScript, but it wouldn't actually be JavaScript which has quite > different rules about how values work and flow). > > One of the achievements of the refactor we did (resulting in 7.0) was to > ensure that there was a complete and clear split between the code which > parses and dispatches LiveCode syntax, and the implementation of the action > itself (all LiveCode's implementation of the action of syntax is now held > in a large collection of C++ functions with well defined prototypes; rather > than embedded in the VM's abstract syntax nodes). This work is one part of > making this possible and various parts of the work done for LCB make up > some other parts. It has gone from being something which could be > considered a fantasy, into something which could be a reality. > > Indeed, at some point that might let us go further - allow LiveCode's full > functionality to be accessed directly from *other* languages in a manner > natural to them... This is the reverse of the Infinite LiveCode 'FFI' > project but the abstract principal is the same - e.g. creating natural > JavaScript bindings around LiveCode's functionality at the 'syntax action' > level'. However, that is perhaps a story for another day... > > Just my two pence :) > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > > > > -- > Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ > LiveCode: Everyone can create apps > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Wed May 24 08:55:22 2017 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 08:55:22 -0400 Subject: Writing Extensions In-Reply-To: References: <741ED1EE-410C-49F5-AB49-1994B35C0B39@hyperhh.de> Message-ID: On the CompileIt thoughts, that was what I was hoping we were going to get with LCB (We already have Double-XX). You could make any Mac Toolbox call in CompileIt, which meant you could build any XCMD/XFCN to add to your stack, but the syntax was still HC (with some restrictions). On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 8:21 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On 2017-05-24 12:35, hh via use-livecode wrote: > >> Switch in LCB -- Monte asked to have the opportunity to do the job: >> http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?p=131509#p131509 >> > > Yes... I'm not sure I quite see your point (especially as he said 'Is > there any chance switch will be implemented as a control structure.', not > 'how would I implement...') :) > > So... > > Would some sort of switch statement be useful in LCB? Yes - it is a > generally useful thing to have. > > Has anyone proposed *any* design yet which does not have the flaws (we'd > like to avoid) in the C-switch mode? No (well until it came up on the list > the other day - there's a conversation going on that topic now which might > bear some fruit, at least in terms of a design). > > Is 'switch' more important than a number of other things we need to do to > LCB to meet its goals? No I don't think it is because it is equivalent to > if/elseif/.../endif and we have that. For example, right now more code > economy (taking into account the current main uses of LCB in the LiveCode > ecosystem) would probably be gained (for example) by adding a bridge > between LiveCode script's string lists, and LCB's lists; or enumerations or > ... > > There's a whole chasm between saying 'I want a switch control structure in > LCB' and having a switch control structure in LCB. If there wasn't then > no-one on this list who programs for a living would have a job - last time > I checked I can't just ask my computer 'please implement the switch control > structure in LCB' ;) > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > > -- > Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ > LiveCode: Everyone can create apps > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Wed May 24 09:03:12 2017 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 23:03:12 +1000 Subject: Writing Extensions In-Reply-To: <9ccdba466c38c5609143cb874ca4ff08@livecode.com> References: <21c77d1f-670e-3e8c-7208-51423fc24188@sonic.net> <0daf672be301a7e1daf78c519a113e31@livecode.com> <00d46d75-336a-d312-4220-a0ce3c66acca@sonic.net> <320801ffe9a00bd55db908a5e63e9bc4@livecode.com> <9ccdba466c38c5609143cb874ca4ff08@livecode.com> Message-ID: On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 8:25 PM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: > Thanks Mark for the explanation. > choose tValue > when 1 > when 2 > when 3 > -- executes if tValue is 1, 2 or 3 > -- never falls through > > when 4 > -- never falls through > > default > end choose > > This caters for both cases (1) and (2) and is unambiguous. > Whilst I certainly like the above and think it an improvement, if I were to 'step back' and redesign Switch I think I'd make it clearer that 'fall through' is just an OR - it took me ages to realise and I've have very very long: case ((....) OR (....) OR (....) ....) which were extremely long and very hard to read until I rewrote them as case case case case ---do something break What I can't currently solve is the many case ((.....) AND (,,,,) AND (....) AND (...)... ) So, again if I were reinventing Switch: choose tVale when 1 or 2 or 3 --do something -- no further fall through when > 6 and < 60 and even --do something else --no further fall through when 4 --do another thing default --some other thing end choose Just makes it clear that fall through is being used to combine the statements, but in my design it isn't just restricted to OR. From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Wed May 24 09:11:30 2017 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 09:11:30 -0400 Subject: Writing Extensions In-Reply-To: References: <21c77d1f-670e-3e8c-7208-51423fc24188@sonic.net> <0daf672be301a7e1daf78c519a113e31@livecode.com> <00d46d75-336a-d312-4220-a0ce3c66acca@sonic.net> <320801ffe9a00bd55db908a5e63e9bc4@livecode.com> <9ccdba466c38c5609143cb874ca4ff08@livecode.com> Message-ID: I personally hate switch. That said, getting rid of the CR's would help make the new "choose" easier to read. If you want a CR, use \ choose tValue when 1 or 2 or 3 -- do something end choose choose tValue when 1\ or 2\ or 3 -- do something end choose On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 9:03 AM, Kay C Lan via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 8:25 PM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode > wrote: > > > Thanks Mark for the explanation. > > > choose tValue > > when 1 > > when 2 > > when 3 > > -- executes if tValue is 1, 2 or 3 > > -- never falls through > > > > when 4 > > -- never falls through > > > > default > > end choose > > > > This caters for both cases (1) and (2) and is unambiguous. > > > Whilst I certainly like the above and think it an improvement, if I > were to 'step back' and redesign Switch I think I'd make it clearer > that 'fall through' is just an OR - it took me ages to realise and > I've have very very long: case ((....) OR (....) OR (....) ....) which > were extremely long and very hard to read until I rewrote them as > > case > case > case > case > ---do something > break > > What I can't currently solve is the many case ((.....) AND (,,,,) AND > (....) AND (...)... ) > > So, again if I were reinventing Switch: > > choose tVale > when 1 > or 2 > or 3 > --do something > -- no further fall through > when > 6 > and < 60 > and even > --do something else > --no further fall through > when 4 > --do another thing > default > --some other thing > end choose > > Just makes it clear that fall through is being used to combine the > statements, but in my design it isn't just restricted to OR. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From mark at livecode.com Wed May 24 09:21:23 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 15:21:23 +0200 Subject: Writing Extensions In-Reply-To: References: <741ED1EE-410C-49F5-AB49-1994B35C0B39@hyperhh.de> Message-ID: On 2017-05-24 14:55, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > On the CompileIt thoughts, that was what I was hoping we were going to > get > with LCB (We already have Double-XX). You could make any Mac Toolbox > call > in CompileIt, which meant you could build any XCMD/XFCN to add to your > stack, but the syntax was still HC (with some restrictions). LCB already has the ability to call C functions - which is what CompileIt allowed you to do (as far as I understand). However, there is a fair bit of glue required to deal with things like C arrays (which are just pointers at the end of the day) and structs - that is something we would like to make much easier. [ That being said, many C APIs are moving towards 'opaque pointers with accessor functions' rather than exposing C-bound concepts - mainly because that way it is much easier to bind to 'higher-level' languages (Python, Ruby, JavaScript etc.) - which just mean you have to deal with opaque pointers. ] What we don't have is much documentation as to *how* to use the features which already exist. Although there is some usage of the feature littered about in some of the engine LCB files, I can appreciate that is not that easy to grok. We also have an almost complete Java FFI system - Ali is currently working on the final piece: adding 'Listener' support (essentially callbacks) which the Android APIs use ubiquitously - e.g. for event handlers on Views. I can attest to the fact that LCB FFI (for C) works - our LCFM plugin is written in LCB and the FM Plugin API is wrapped in LCB using the current C FFI features which are available (doing so has given me some more ideas about how to make such things easier *and* safer - which is a critical factor these days). For Mac / iOS APIs we need to add a way to wrap an Obj-C object, and implement a Delegate (although you can manipulate Obj-C objects through a C API so technically you can do this already, if you don't mind a bit of bit munching). However, now we have done Java, Obj-C should follow very quickly. Both Obj-C objects and Java objects have very similar (abstract) properties in terms of how you access from from native code; and Listeners and Delegates are very similar things also. In terms of actually compiling stuff to native code - it is a goal we have; but there are a few more ducks to get in a row before it can become a reality. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mark at livecode.com Wed May 24 09:25:09 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 15:25:09 +0200 Subject: English =?UTF-8?Q?Like=3F?= In-Reply-To: References: <87287AF1-9463-42DB-B866-3277490A100F@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4951116382f04e0e0322184f38703a00@livecode.com> On 2017-05-24 14:52, Lagi Pittas via use-livecode wrote: > Mark > > You are a big Tease. Hehe - I don't mean to be a tease - making correct/good technical choices as to how things should work under the hood opens up an array of options for the future. We always try and design things with that in mind. The 7 refactor was a large and rather difficult project, the full fruits of which have yet to become apparent. I can't say when some of the things we might like to do might happen, but at least they are possible now; when they weren't before. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From dunbarx at aol.com Wed May 24 09:45:25 2017 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 06:45:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: English Like? In-Reply-To: <4951116382f04e0e0322184f38703a00@livecode.com> References: <87287AF1-9463-42DB-B866-3277490A100F@gmail.com> <4951116382f04e0e0322184f38703a00@livecode.com> Message-ID: <1495633525807-4715143.post@n4.nabble.com> There is a far more important issue here. New learners are far more likely to be coaxed into continuing to spend the time and effort, and to put away their fears, if they see and use "put x into y". It is why we have stacks and cards, and in the olden days, rolodexes. The original HC team did all that on purpose. Remember "for the rest of us"? Experienced users are being academic and pedantic to raise this issue as if it were something important. We need new users, not old ones. No offense, please. Craig Newman -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/English-Like-tp4714951p4715143.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Wed May 24 10:02:28 2017 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 10:02:28 -0400 Subject: Writing Extensions In-Reply-To: References: <741ED1EE-410C-49F5-AB49-1994B35C0B39@hyperhh.de> Message-ID: It's just difficult to get my brain wrapped around it, still. Elanor's course (that I think still has not been released to the public) was a help, but more of that is needed, since we aren't in your brain. On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 9:21 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On 2017-05-24 14:55, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > >> On the CompileIt thoughts, that was what I was hoping we were going to get >> with LCB (We already have Double-XX). You could make any Mac Toolbox call >> in CompileIt, which meant you could build any XCMD/XFCN to add to your >> stack, but the syntax was still HC (with some restrictions). >> > > LCB already has the ability to call C functions - which is what CompileIt > allowed you to do (as far as I understand). However, there is a fair bit of > glue required to deal with things like C arrays (which are just pointers at > the end of the day) and structs - that is something we would like to make > much easier. > > [ That being said, many C APIs are moving towards 'opaque pointers with > accessor functions' rather than exposing C-bound concepts - mainly because > that way it is much easier to bind to 'higher-level' languages (Python, > Ruby, JavaScript etc.) - which just mean you have to deal with opaque > pointers. ] > > What we don't have is much documentation as to *how* to use the features > which already exist. Although there is some usage of the feature littered > about in some of the engine LCB files, I can appreciate that is not that > easy to grok. > > We also have an almost complete Java FFI system - Ali is currently working > on the final piece: adding 'Listener' support (essentially callbacks) which > the Android APIs use ubiquitously - e.g. for event handlers on Views. > > I can attest to the fact that LCB FFI (for C) works - our LCFM plugin is > written in LCB and the FM Plugin API is wrapped in LCB using the current C > FFI features which are available (doing so has given me some more ideas > about how to make such things easier *and* safer - which is a critical > factor these days). > > For Mac / iOS APIs we need to add a way to wrap an Obj-C object, and > implement a Delegate (although you can manipulate Obj-C objects through a C > API so technically you can do this already, if you don't mind a bit of bit > munching). However, now we have done Java, Obj-C should follow very > quickly. Both Obj-C objects and Java objects have very similar (abstract) > properties in terms of how you access from from native code; and Listeners > and Delegates are very similar things also. > > In terms of actually compiling stuff to native code - it is a goal we > have; but there are a few more ducks to get in a row before it can become a > reality. > > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > > -- > Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ > LiveCode: Everyone can create apps > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed May 24 10:08:48 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 07:08:48 -0700 Subject: Sql problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Roger Eller wrote: > I have always replaced the linefeeds with a unique placeholder for > transport, and switched it back to linefeeds in the server script. I > didn't even consider replacing with empty. What in your system requires removing line breaks? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Wed May 24 10:13:45 2017 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 10:13:45 -0400 Subject: English Like? In-Reply-To: <1495633525807-4715143.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <87287AF1-9463-42DB-B866-3277490A100F@gmail.com> <4951116382f04e0e0322184f38703a00@livecode.com> <1495633525807-4715143.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: That is certainly true. The approachability of the language is the hook that got me hooked, even though HC was my...8th? 9th? 15th? language. For beginners, we should be asking what else we can do to make their life easier. Community is free and it gets you in, but you can't build even the simplest ios app without paying apple and then fighting through all of the other things you have to do to get the app built and on your device just so you can play with it. That would be a nifty service to provide for learning. The n00b would have to upload their stack, and the ID of the one device they want to mess with it on. Hmm...... On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 9:45 AM, dunbarx via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > There is a far more important issue here. New learners are far more likely > to > be coaxed into continuing to spend the time and effort, and to put away > their fears, if they see and use "put x into y". It is why we have stacks > and cards, and in the olden days, rolodexes. The original HC team did all > that on purpose. > > Remember "for the rest of us"? > > Experienced users are being academic and pedantic to raise this issue as if > it were something important. We need new users, not old ones. > > No offense, please. > > Craig Newman > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.2783 > 05.n4.nabble.com/English-Like-tp4714951p4715143.html > Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Wed May 24 10:16:49 2017 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 10:16:49 -0400 Subject: English Like? In-Reply-To: References: <87287AF1-9463-42DB-B866-3277490A100F@gmail.com> <4951116382f04e0e0322184f38703a00@livecode.com> <1495633525807-4715143.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: The problem with this idea is the need to register the device through apple's developer portal, but I wonder if testFlight could be leveraged to make that work. TestFlight apps are time-limited, so that takes care of that problem... On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 10:13 AM, Mike Kerner wrote: > That is certainly true. The approachability of the language is the hook > that got me hooked, even though HC was my...8th? 9th? 15th? language. > For beginners, we should be asking what else we can do to make their life > easier. Community is free and it gets you in, but you can't build even the > simplest ios app without paying apple and then fighting through all of the > other things you have to do to get the app built and on your device just so > you can play with it. That would be a nifty service to provide for > learning. The n00b would have to upload their stack, and the ID of the one > device they want to mess with it on. Hmm...... > > On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 9:45 AM, dunbarx via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> There is a far more important issue here. New learners are far more >> likely to >> be coaxed into continuing to spend the time and effort, and to put away >> their fears, if they see and use "put x into y". It is why we have stacks >> and cards, and in the olden days, rolodexes. The original HC team did all >> that on purpose. >> >> Remember "for the rest of us"? >> >> Experienced users are being academic and pedantic to raise this issue as >> if >> it were something important. We need new users, not old ones. >> >> No offense, please. >> >> Craig Newman >> >> >> >> -- >> View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.2783 >> 05.n4.nabble.com/English-Like-tp4714951p4715143.html >> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From mark at livecode.com Wed May 24 11:03:33 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 17:03:33 +0200 Subject: English =?UTF-8?Q?Like=3F?= In-Reply-To: <1495633525807-4715143.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <87287AF1-9463-42DB-B866-3277490A100F@gmail.com> <4951116382f04e0e0322184f38703a00@livecode.com> <1495633525807-4715143.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: On 2017-05-24 15:45, dunbarx via use-livecode wrote: > There is a far more important issue here. New learners are far more > likely to > be coaxed into continuing to spend the time and effort, and to put away > their fears, if they see and use "put x into y". It is why we have > stacks > and cards, and in the olden days, rolodexes. The original HC team did > all > that on purpose. Which 'new learners'? I can absolutely assure you there is no homogenous group there. At one point after years of collecting surveys and analysing data we managed to divide up users and non-users into 7 (or thereabouts) distinct groups. Recently, taking a slightly different approach we have reduced this to 3 (7 was too fine-grained to actually be able to do much with, 3 is more manageable and seems to work much better in terms of targetting). Why have we done this - because we need to actually *sell* LiveCode - nothing sells itself. Market segmentation and understanding your users and potential users is perhaps the most significant piece of selling. ( Okay, that's my marketing brain cell exhausted for a while ;) ). It is quite possibly true that as many people get put off by LiveCode because of its 'English-like' language, who get sucked in because of it. We have to concede that point - if it weren't (at least in some part) true we wouldn't hear such phrases as 'babyish' and 'insult to intelligence' that are often heard about xTalks (and LiveCode in particular). (Btw, @WilliamProthero: Please don't think I'm singling your comments out or taking offense by them - you echo words I have heard many times - as have all of us I suspect when we get asked by some - 'so what's LiveCode like'). > Remember "for the rest of us"? > > Experienced users are being academic and pedantic to raise this issue > as if > it were something important. We need new users, not old ones. > > No offence, please. No offence taken - it is a discussion :) However, it is important to realize that whilst it is not important to you (I get you are quite invested in LCS - as am I, much more than is ever apparent at times), it *is* important to others (otherwise we wouldn't get some comments about the language that we do). Syntax is an emotive issue (I could beat Python to death with some of the decisions they have made about syntax - but yet I still use it and slightly enjoy doing so for the purposes I use it for) - but it is not the be-all-and-end-all. I mentioned in my last post about the 'high priest' mentality - let us not risk falling into the same mentality but in reverse. The time for being an island in our own right passed with the passing of HyperCard. I think it is fair to say that, these days the world of computing is inordinately larger and much more diverse (look at the rise in the HTML/JavaScript world for just one example). There is huge value in being 'maverick', but it perhaps makes things much harder than they would be otherwise. In reality the scripting language LiveCode has, whilst one of its greatest strengths IMHO (otherwise I can quite honestly say I wouldn't be here), is only one part of the ecosystem: - we have an interactive IDE which allows to edit and run code 'live' (for some definition of live) - we have a large GUI framework - we have large collections of libraries (script, externals, LCB) all giving high-level access to new features - in order to build and maintain LiveCode we have a large infrastructure which allows us to build on 7 different platforms. Furthermore, we all want more features - we all want LiveCode to do everything in a way commensurate with how LiveCode 'is'. However, the breadth of knowledge that requires is immense - we do quite well as a team, sitting here (mostly in Scotland), we also do well as a (small, in the grand scheme of things) global community. Our current solution to help achieve this 'doing everything goal' is LCB and expanding its FFI capabilities - but that is a tool - it still needs knowledge and a great deal of effort to use. We need to attract people from other worlds, and as many as possible - in there heads lies so much knowledge about how to use the concrete things which do exist in other language ecosystems (whether it be JavaScript libraries, Java libraries, C# libraries, ActiveX widgets, the list goes on and on) it seems quite sensible to ensure that we can fold that knowledge into our own so we can benefit from all that currently exists, and not just what a team of a few can generate, or a small community can generate. Pre-7 what I suggested in my previous email was just not possible (in terms of a different syntax style) - or, should I say, the cost of attempting to do it would be far in excess of its potential benefit at the time. However, the main part of the refactor is done, we are in a very different situation technically - perhaps it really is something to seriously consider *if* the cost of doing so pales in comparison to the growth it could engender in terms of the reach of LiveCode. I think a lot of us get hung up on the syntax (even me - who will always be quick to point out that 'syntax is just sugar' in many situations - I'm a polyglot when it comes to programming languages but many people are not and never will be). I can certainly say that whilst I am in the position I am in, I will not see LiveCode Script become some sort of syntactic mongrel (indeed the places where it is slightly 'mongrelic', I would quite like to have alternative non-mongrel forms much more in keeping with the language as a whole). However, again, there is more to LiveCode than just the syntax of the language. Anyway, I shall now get off my (small?) soap-box. Again this is a discussion, there are lots of reasons why people don't choose LiveCode and we try our very best to determine them, and deal with them. There are certainly easier ones to tackle than adding a new 'syntax style' and of course we intend to address those first... However, let us imagine that we were able to demonstrate that a significant proportion of people who might use LiveCode end up not doing so because of the language itself, and *if* the language had a different syntactic style then we would have significantly more users... Then surely it is worthy of some discussion and consideration? Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mark at livecode.com Wed May 24 11:14:13 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 17:14:13 +0200 Subject: breakpoint on parameter In-Reply-To: <4f794639-28ef-43a0-575a-43e524d40efd@sonic.net> References: <61fa5ae3-12f5-2fe2-edd0-9bf9b573dfa1@fourthworld.com> <4f794639-28ef-43a0-575a-43e524d40efd@sonic.net> Message-ID: On 2017-05-23 17:57, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > On 05/23/2017 08:45 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > >> There's a request to allow getProp and setProp for built-in object >> properties: >> http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=3126 > > ...and it's from 2005, rev version 2.6... The ball was dropped on that one somewhat: http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=14819 Monte submitted a PR, which kinda got lost in the huge behemoth that was the refactor. Definitely something to revisit at some point. Of course, the fact I've still not managed to figure out a solution to: http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=18048 Irks me greatly. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org Wed May 24 11:19:22 2017 From: prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org (prothero at earthlearningsolutions.org) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 08:19:22 -0700 Subject: English Like? In-Reply-To: References: <87287AF1-9463-42DB-B866-3277490A100F@gmail.com> <4951116382f04e0e0322184f38703a00@livecode.com> <1495633525807-4715143.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <603B28D5-80C5-4FE6-991F-4CAAB6261D8B@earthlearningsolutions.org> Ok,ok, I hear y'all about the approachability of the htalk language. I do know that when we get familiar with an intellectual construct, we tend to give validity to information or attitudes that agree with that construct. Confirmation bias seemed to be a huge factor in news "facts" acceptance in the recent US election, as well. As to the subject at hand, experienced programmers are going to favor constructs they are already familiar with. It will not be possible to settle the question of whether using x=3 or put 3 into x is more logical using this audience. In addition, the question is ill-posed. One question is whether programmers experienced in other high level languages would find livecode an attractive option for their work. Or conversely, would people new to coding find htalk easy and intuitive? These are two different questions and a rigorous answer will most likely not come from knowledgeable livecode programmers. No insult is intended, as I accept that I am guilty of the same bias. In my humble opinion, the proof is in the pudding. What can I build with this application and how easy will it be to build what I want? I may prefer other syntaxes, but what the heck? As long as I can find what I need to make what I want, and have this fantastic array of users who help me out, I'm a very happy camper. So, for a bottom line, I really don't give a hoot about the "put 3 into x" syntax as long as I can build what I want. My initial posting was to comment that a LOT of the syntax for important operations is neither English-like, nor intuitive. The reason I moved to Livecode was its capabilities, multiple platform deployment, but mostly the potential of the development team and the dynamic way they are improving the product and keeping up as technology continues to evolve. The refactoring of a very mature code base was a very positive development, in my view. The responsiveness and engagement of the development team is another huge positive for me. One of the sayings among academic departments is that "the battles are so fierce because the stakes are so small". The discussion is fun and interesting, but ....... maybe less important. Off to breakfast on a foggy Santa Barbara morning. Best, Bill P William Prothero http://es.earthednet.org > On May 24, 2017, at 7:13 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > > That is certainly true. The approachability of the language is the hook > that got me hooked, even though HC was my...8th? 9th? 15th? language. > For beginners, we should be asking what else we can do to make their life > easier. Community is free and it gets you in, but you can't build even the > simplest ios app without paying apple and then fighting through all of the > other things you have to do to get the app built and on your device just so > you can play with it. That would be a nifty service to provide for > learning. The n00b would have to upload their stack, and the ID of the one > device they want to mess with it on. Hmm...... > > On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 9:45 AM, dunbarx via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> There is a far more important issue here. New learners are far more likely >> to >> be coaxed into continuing to spend the time and effort, and to put away >> their fears, if they see and use "put x into y". It is why we have stacks >> and cards, and in the olden days, rolodexes. The original HC team did all >> that on purpose. >> >> Remember "for the rest of us"? >> >> Experienced users are being academic and pedantic to raise this issue as if >> it were something important. We need new users, not old ones. >> >> No offense, please. >> >> Craig Newman >> >> >> >> -- >> View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.2783 >> 05.n4.nabble.com/English-Like-tp4714951p4715143.html >> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mark at livecode.com Wed May 24 11:23:07 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 17:23:07 +0200 Subject: breakpoint on parameter In-Reply-To: <61fa5ae3-12f5-2fe2-edd0-9bf9b573dfa1@fourthworld.com> References: <61fa5ae3-12f5-2fe2-edd0-9bf9b573dfa1@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On 2017-05-23 17:45, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > Matt Maier wrote: >> I want to find out which parts of my code are making changes to a >> control's parameter. Specifically, I've got an arrow that I want >> to be black, and it is black when it's created, but then it turns >> gray. I can't find the script that's turning it gray. >> >> I don't know where to put a breakpoint in the script. >> >> Can I put a breakpoint on that control's color parameter, so execution >> stops whenever something modifies it and goes to the script that's >> doing the modification? > > There's a request to allow getProp and setProp for built-in object > properties: > http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=3126 > > I would imagine this is a non-trivial request, given what I'm guessing > would be performance penalties. I don't think the performance penalty is necessarily an issue any more (see forum thread I posted in another reply). I did something years ago to how handlers in the message path worked (changed the search from linear to binary-per-handler-type) - I didn't think anything of it at the time (didn't even mention it). However, it has vastly reduced the overhead of dispatching a message through the message path. Now, there are potentially other dragons lurking there with the request - in terms of interpretation of tokens which the engine reserves to itself, and the order in which the engine does things currently. I'd be a little concerned that either might cause significant backwards-compatibility issues. However, that just means it needs more thought and validation. > Perhaps Mark Waddingham could offer insight on this. In terms of the original question - it is certainly worth of a enhancement request (to hook up a debug message for 'control property changed' situation, like we have one for variables). Right now, though there might be a way in the IDE by using an IDE mechanism - the IDE has an API allowing an object to subscribe to a message when any properties of that object change: revIDESubscribe "idePropertyChanged", The idePropertyChanged message gets sent to the object which calls revIDESubscribe. In that handler you can inspect the malfunctioning object's properties. It might not be fine-grained enough (the engine coalesces such messages otherwise they would flood the IDE and grind things to a halt) - but it *might* give you some insight. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mkoob at rogers.com Wed May 24 11:11:53 2017 From: mkoob at rogers.com (Martin Koob) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 08:11:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: English Like? In-Reply-To: References: <87287AF1-9463-42DB-B866-3277490A100F@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1495638713434-4715152.post@n4.nabble.com> I agree that LiveCode script should become more English like as time goes on not only with english words but also with more natural(or intuitive) grammar. >From your examples I think it would be more natural to type. put the third index of tNumericArray into tFoo OR put the backColor of control "foo" into tVarBackColor (in this example have the engine know it has to get the long id of control "foo" to access the backColor than for the programmer to remember to assign it first.) Often when I am typing a script and I am not sure how to do it I wing it first to see if what I intuitively write will work. If that fails then go to the dictionary or then forums. One example is the following. I wanted a button in a group to access a property of the group so I typed. put the width of this group into tWidth. When I apply that in the script editor it shows no errors but when I run it it stops with the following error: (Chunk: can't find background) The above line would work if I used card or stack instead of group. In this case I had to put. put the width of the owner of me into tWidth So that is grammatically English but not the way I intuitively thought of it and the sentence is a little unnatural. I can fake a more natural sentence using a function to hide the way of accessing the group to get it to read better. put the width of this_Group() into tGroupWidth function this_Group return the owner of me end this_Group It would be nice if this is the direction of the language. My nickel's* worth. * in Canada we ditched the penny a couple of years ago so every purchase is rounded to the nearest nickel. :-) Martin Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote > Of course, LiveCode syntax isn't perfect - it has [] for array access > for example - it might be nice to be > able to do: > > put index 3 of tNumericArray into tFoo > put the foo of tAssocArray into tBar > > Which is perhaps the way I'd suggest the language should go - replacing > what we currently use symbols (operators) for with 'English-like' forms. > > It should be noted in all of this that syntax is just sugar (but don't > take that as meaning that sugar isn't important - if you forget the > sugar in recipes you often end up with inedible things). A handler such > as: > > command Foo > put the long id of control "Foo" into tVar > put the backColor of tVar into tVarBackColor > set the backColor of char 3 to 5 of field 3 to tVarBackColor > end Foo > > > Just my two pence :) > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > > > > -- > Mark Waddingham ~ > mark@ > ~ http://www.livecode.com/ > LiveCode: Everyone can create apps > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at .runrev > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/English-Like-tp4714951p4715152.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Wed May 24 11:28:15 2017 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 11:28:15 -0400 Subject: English Like? In-Reply-To: References: <87287AF1-9463-42DB-B866-3277490A100F@gmail.com> <4951116382f04e0e0322184f38703a00@livecode.com> <1495633525807-4715143.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 11:03 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On 2017-05-24 15:45, dunbarx via use-livecode wrote: > >> There is a far more important issue here. New learners are far more >> likely to >> be coaxed into continuing to spend the time and effort, and to put away >> their fears, if they see and use "put x into y". It is why we have stacks >> and cards, and in the olden days, rolodexes. The original HC team did all >> that on purpose. >> > > > I think a lot of us get hung up on the syntax (even me - who will always > be quick to point out that 'syntax is just sugar' in many situations - I'm > a polyglot when it comes to programming languages but many people are not > and never will be). I can certainly say that whilst I am in the position I > am in, I will not see LiveCode Script become some sort of syntactic mongrel > (indeed the places where it is slightly 'mongrelic', I would quite like to > have alternative non-mongrel forms much more in keeping with the language > as a whole). However, again, there is more to LiveCode than just the syntax > of the language. > > Anyway, I shall now get off my (small?) soap-box. Again this is a > discussion, there are lots of reasons why people don't choose LiveCode and > we try our very best to determine them, and deal with them. There are > certainly easier ones to tackle than adding a new 'syntax style' and of > course we intend to address those first... > > However, let us imagine that we were able to demonstrate that a > significant proportion of people who might use LiveCode end up not doing so > because of the language itself, and *if* the language had a different > syntactic style then we would have significantly more users... Then surely > it is worthy of some discussion and consideration? > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > > -- > Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ > LiveCode: Everyone can create apps > Firstly, THANK YOU for standing on that small soap-box, Mark. LC and it's English-likeness is well worth defending, IMHO. I wouldn't be here if it were too much more like 'standard' programming languages. The great thing about LC for those who prefer the more arcane syntax is they can fork it and make it their own. Yay OSS! ~Roger From panos.merakos at livecode.com Wed May 24 11:55:08 2017 From: panos.merakos at livecode.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 16:55:08 +0100 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 83 Message-ID: Hi all, Read about new developments in LiveCode open source and the open source community in today's edition of the "This Week in LiveCode" newsletter! Read issue #83 here: https://goo.gl/rRF66V This is a weekly newsletter about LiveCode, focussing on what's been going on in and around the open source project. New issues will be released weekly on Mondays. We have a dedicated mailing list that will deliver each issue directly to you e-mail, so you don't miss any! If you have anything you'd like mentioned (a project, a discussion somewhere, an upcoming event) then please get in touch. -- Panagiotis Merakos LiveCode Software Developer Everyone Can Create Apps From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed May 24 11:57:50 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 18:57:50 +0300 Subject: English Like? In-Reply-To: <603B28D5-80C5-4FE6-991F-4CAAB6261D8B@earthlearningsolutions.org> References: <87287AF1-9463-42DB-B866-3277490A100F@gmail.com> <4951116382f04e0e0322184f38703a00@livecode.com> <1495633525807-4715143.post@n4.nabble.com> <603B28D5-80C5-4FE6-991F-4CAAB6261D8B@earthlearningsolutions.org> Message-ID: <70b8181f-54f8-dc44-1dae-bf19a3c27c2c@gmail.com> On 5/24/17 6:19 pm, prothero--- via use-livecode wrote: > Ok,ok, I hear y'all about the approachability of the htalk language. I do know that when we get familiar with an intellectual construct, we tend to give validity to information or attitudes that agree with that construct. Confirmation bias seemed to be a huge factor in news "facts" acceptance in the recent US election, as well. > > As to the subject at hand, experienced programmers are going to favor constructs they are already familiar with. Yup: but that is has no more objective validity than people from the British Isles favoUring different spelling conventions. Whether someone spells the word "quha" or "who" is, ultimately neither here nor there. If I were ti hire a computer programmer to do a job I would be concerned whether that programmer could produce a finished product for me that looked and functioned the way I wanted it to: I really wouldn't give a tuppeny toss which language/development environment s/he used to achieve that. > It will not be possible to settle the question of whether using x=3 or put 3 into x is more logical using this audience. In addition, the question is ill-posed. This question is about a matter of taste, not logic, and those who think that it refers to logic are unaware of how they have let themselves be lulled into accepting one way of doing things as "the logical way". > One question is whether programmers experienced in other high level languages would find livecode an attractive option for their work. Probably most of those programmers (like many well-established LiveCode programmers) have invested so much time and effort in learning the high level language(s) they already use that they are unlikely to switch. > Or conversely, would people new to coding find htalk easy and intuitive? From a marketing point of view I believe that this question is more pressing than the other one, just because people new to coding have not got stuck in the groove of a particulalr programming language. The other day I revived my BBC Master Compact that I bought in 1989 and started doing some programming on it and was both surprised and enlightened that I took quite some time to get up to speed after some 27 years not touching BBC BASIC. Surprised because I had not realised how much the "LiveCode way" had permeated my way of doing things. Enlightened because I began to remember what life was like before HyperCard, Graphic User Interfaces and all the stuff we now all too readily take for granted with computers. I'm trying to get a FORTRAN IV ROM chip to install in my BBC . . . . > These are two different questions and a rigorous answer will most likely not come from knowledgeable livecode programmers. No insult is intended, as I accept that I am guilty of the same bias. > > In my humble opinion, the proof is in the pudding. Indeed: and different people like different puddings. What does need to be born in mind is that most of LiveCode's installed user-base like their pudding the way LiveCode serves, and changing the recipe to attract other people might only serve to alienate current users rather than attarct others; probably not worth the risk. For those who like salt in their porridge there's LiveCode, and for those who prefer sugar, or syrup, or prunes in their porridge there are other puddings on offer. When I started my EFL school in Bulgaria 12 years ago I was "up against" 4 major 'factory' EFL schools, and people were telling me all sorts of "good" advice as to how I should drive them out of business and become "Mr English" in the town. I didn't listen. My school now runs at exactly the size I want it to; those 'factories' still run. Nobody, as far as I can tell, feels threatened by my operation, and I don't feel threatened by them. This is because, although we all "sell" English as a Foreign Language, we do it in different ways; and the children who come to my school are quite unlike those who go to the other ones (which suits me 100%). There is room in the multiverse of EFL for a variety of products. > What can I build with this application and how easy will it be to build what I want? I may prefer other syntaxes, but what the heck? Well, there are probably nearly as many variables to be weighed up as there are potential LiveCode programmers; here's one more: 1. Can I afford the necessary time needed to get reasonably competent at programming in LiveCode and will that be justifiable when I can develop my next-big-thing in language X that I already know? > As long as I can find what I need to make what I want, and have this fantastic array of users who help me out, I'm a very happy camper. So, for a bottom line, I really don't give a hoot about the "put 3 into x" syntax as long as I can build what I want. My initial posting was to comment that a LOT of the syntax for important operations is neither English-like, nor intuitive. No: a lot of the syntax isn't English-like, and the claims that have been flying around about that ever since HyperCard seem almost as crook as the "programming is easy" porky. "Intuitive" . . . ha, ha, ha. Human languages are not intuitive: otherwise we'd all be learning a new language every 3 or 4 weeks and the Tower of Babel wouldn't look like Trump Tower! > > The reason I moved to Livecode was its capabilities, multiple platform deployment, but mostly the potential of the development team and the dynamic way they are improving the product and keeping up as technology continues to evolve. The refactoring of a very mature code base was a very positive development, in my view. The responsiveness and engagement of the development team is another huge positive for me. The reason I moved to HyperCard was that was what came installed on the Macintosh LC 475 that I bought in Montgomery Ward in 1993. The reason I moved to LiveCode was that, after getting badly side-tracked with ToolBook and MacroMedia Director, I discovered MetaCard by accident and then found that the interface provided by Revolution was more to my taste. > > One of the sayings among academic departments is that "the battles are so fierce because the stakes are so small". The discussion is fun and interesting, but ....... maybe less important. > > Off to breakfast on a foggy Santa Barbara morning. Hope that's fog and not smog! Richmond. > > Best, > Bill P > > William Prothero > http://es.earthednet.org > >> On May 24, 2017, at 7:13 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: >> >> That is certainly true. The approachability of the language is the hook >> that got me hooked, even though HC was my...8th? 9th? 15th? language. >> For beginners, we should be asking what else we can do to make their life >> easier. Community is free and it gets you in, but you can't build even the >> simplest ios app without paying apple and then fighting through all of the >> other things you have to do to get the app built and on your device just so >> you can play with it. That would be a nifty service to provide for >> learning. The n00b would have to upload their stack, and the ID of the one >> device they want to mess with it on. Hmm...... >> >> On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 9:45 AM, dunbarx via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >>> There is a far more important issue here. New learners are far more likely >>> to >>> be coaxed into continuing to spend the time and effort, and to put away >>> their fears, if they see and use "put x into y". It is why we have stacks >>> and cards, and in the olden days, rolodexes. The original HC team did all >>> that on purpose. >>> >>> Remember "for the rest of us"? >>> >>> Experienced users are being academic and pedantic to raise this issue as if >>> it were something important. We need new users, not old ones. >>> >>> No offense, please. >>> >>> Craig Newman >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.2783 >>> 05.n4.nabble.com/English-Like-tp4714951p4715143.html >>> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> >> -- >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >> On the second day, God created the oceans. >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >> and did a little diving. >> And God said, "This is good." >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ahsoftware at sonic.net Wed May 24 12:12:42 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 09:12:42 -0700 Subject: breakpoint on parameter In-Reply-To: References: <61fa5ae3-12f5-2fe2-edd0-9bf9b573dfa1@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On 05/24/2017 08:23 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: > Right now, though there might be a way in the IDE by using an IDE > mechanism - the IDE has an API allowing an object to subscribe to a > message when any properties of that object change: > > revIDESubscribe "idePropertyChanged", > > The idePropertyChanged message gets sent to the object which calls > revIDESubscribe. In that handler you can inspect the malfunctioning > object's properties. That's a clever solution. And there's a corresponding revIDEUnsubscribe message as well as a revIDEUnsubscribeAll for when you're done. I don't believe any of these are documented, but they're useful and, in my case at least, essential. For now the subscribe messages are limited to a predefined set of IDE messages, but the long-term plan as I understand it is to open up the mechanism to allow for user-defined messages as well. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From ahsoftware at sonic.net Wed May 24 12:44:20 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 09:44:20 -0700 Subject: Writing Extensions In-Reply-To: <9ccdba466c38c5609143cb874ca4ff08@livecode.com> References: <21c77d1f-670e-3e8c-7208-51423fc24188@sonic.net> <0daf672be301a7e1daf78c519a113e31@livecode.com> <00d46d75-336a-d312-4220-a0ce3c66acca@sonic.net> <320801ffe9a00bd55db908a5e63e9bc4@livecode.com> <9ccdba466c38c5609143cb874ca4ff08@livecode.com> Message-ID: <72cb9357-af0f-30cb-dde6-ca8d19ba0c7b@sonic.net> On 05/24/2017 03:25 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: > The use-case which causes subtle bugs and errors is where one case > requires a 'bit more code' before the others (where code, fallthrough, > code is *not* erroneous but intended) - also it is a rarely used pattern > in C (because it is difficult to maintain). I hesitate to get into religious wars here (especially with you, because there's no way I'd end up on top ) but... I use switch statements all the time. All the time. I utilize the fallthrough mechanism where it's useful to avoid repeating code and I've just gotten into the habit of writing a break statement immediately after writing a case statement, so I (mostly) keep out of trouble that way. That said, the "problem" with switch statements is exactly what you have laid out, user errors with forgetting the break statement. > > Taking this into account, then perhaps a better solution would be > ('choose' used here for the sake of argument): > > choose tValue > when 1 > when 2 > when 3 > -- executes if tValue is 1, 2 or 3 > -- never falls through > > when 4 > -- never falls through > > default > end choose > > This caters for both cases (1) and (2) and is unambiguous. ruby implements almost exactly this syntax ("case" instead of "choose", but otherwise): case x when "a", "b" puts "a or b" when "c" puts "just c" else puts "something else" end while python doesn't have a switch construct as such, dictionaries neatly provide the same functionality in a possibly more readable and maintainable form (here as a function): def f(x): return { 'a': 1, 'b': 2, }[x] > As I said before, the lack of switch in LCB isn't because we don't want > a construct like that; just that we'd like one which doesn't have the > issues of C-style switch. (The best way to avoid people accidentally > introducing subtle bugs, is to ensure the language is designed to not > let them do so!) It's *always* possible to introduce bugs, subtle or not. The best way to avoid that is not to allow people to code . The idea of a "continue" statement to force a fallthrough is intriguing, although I can't get the unwanted images of Cobol out of my mind. I do like the idea of having the language guide users to preventing errors, and possibly the ruby syntax with the continue statement might be the best way forward. In that case (heh...) I'd also like the syntax to allow for case x when someFunctionThatReturnsAorB() puts "a or b" else puts "something else" end -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From mark at livecode.com Wed May 24 12:47:51 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 18:47:51 +0200 Subject: English =?UTF-8?Q?Like=3F?= In-Reply-To: <70b8181f-54f8-dc44-1dae-bf19a3c27c2c@gmail.com> References: <87287AF1-9463-42DB-B866-3277490A100F@gmail.com> <4951116382f04e0e0322184f38703a00@livecode.com> <1495633525807-4715143.post@n4.nabble.com> <603B28D5-80C5-4FE6-991F-4CAAB6261D8B@earthlearningsolutions.org> <70b8181f-54f8-dc44-1dae-bf19a3c27c2c@gmail.com> Message-ID: <58dbb4b17268587b57e978ffe4d2c7f7@livecode.com> Hehe - what an enjoyable post to read - I couldn't resist 'biting' on a few things though ;) On 2017-05-24 17:57, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: > Probably most of those programmers (like many well-established > LiveCode programmers) have invested so much time and effort > in learning the high level language(s) they already use that they are > unlikely to switch. But if we can make them switch, that benefits LiveCode as a whole. > From a marketing point of view I believe that this question is more > pressing than the other one, just because people new to coding have > not got stuck in the groove of a particulalr programming language. This is partly true - however, 'no man is an island', people develop preconceptions about things over time which influence the choices in the future. I think it would be fair to say there might well be some sort of general 'meme' which floats around with regards to 'English-like' languages and not necessarily a positive one. Ergo - someone who has never been a programmer, who perhaps is thinking of dabbling, might get put off by LiveCode because of its language, just because they have that 'meme' embedded in that psyche without even trying it properly. > What does need to be born in mind is that most of LiveCode's installed > user-base like their pudding the way LiveCode serves, > and changing the recipe to attract other people might only serve to > alienate current users rather than attarct others; > probably not worth the risk. So we must make sure that the 'pudding' our current user-base isn't diluted in the process. Most companies might start out producing only one kind of 'pudding', but if they never diversify they risk ceasing to be at some point when some other company produces 'pudding+' which people like better; or if they can no longer produce 'pudding' because some 'nanny' decides that a key ingredient should not be allowed anymore for the health of all. Having all your eggs in one basket is a little risky... > My school now runs at exactly the size I want it to; those 'factories' > still run. Nobody, as far as I can tell, feels threatened by my > operation, > and I don't feel threatened by them. This is because, although we all > "sell" English as a Foreign Language, we do it in different ways; and > the children who come to my school are quite unlike those who go to > the other ones (which suits me 100%). There is room in the > multiverse of EFL for a variety of products. It is great that you've reached a 'steady state' with your EFL school :) However, it is perhaps fair to say that the world of EFL teaching does not move at quite the same rate as the world of computers, there are lots of very large 'pudding behemoths' out there who care not one whit for small 'pudding' manufacturers - and quite often trample them under foot without a moment's thought. I would also conjecture that the infrastructure requirements for our particular kind of 'pudding' are somewhat larger than for a single successful EFL school - and when combined with the fast paced environment our 'pudding' is couched in, one needs to be careful that one can support one's 'pudding' manufacture now and into the long term future. > No: a lot of the syntax isn't English-like, and the claims that have > been flying around about that ever since HyperCard seem almost > as crook as the "programming is easy" porky. I agree with the statement that 'programming is easy' in general is a bit of a porky. Most things are not easy when you get below a certain depth (kind of a tautology, easy things generally being quite shallow in any domain). However, I am firmly in the belief that many of the reasons why it is not 'easy' right now are not because they could not be easier, but because like most industries there is a huge inertia with how things are currently done and when you are in the midst of doing something, you have to get it done, and perhaps thinking about 'how to make it easier' is a distant thought. In general I'd like to think that LiveCode does make some things easier than other languages - and, in general, it is going in the right direction. In regards to 'English-like' - then well let's just say LiveCode is 'fibbidy-dab' if 'English-like' is considered too inaccurate. In comparison with pretty much ever other programming language which exists today and is still maintained, I'd say LiveCode is significantly more 'English-like' than any of them thus justifying its tag of 'English-like' ;) > "Intuitive" . . . ha, ha, ha. Human languages are not intuitive: > otherwise we'd all be learning a new language every 3 or 4 weeks > and the Tower of Babel wouldn't look like Trump Tower! Indeed - human languages have evolved organically - but they have some nice properties which most programming languages do not (particularly in terms of how they reflect, at least in some part, how our brains would appear to work - being something which has resulted from our brains rather than the other way round). At the end of the day computers dislike ambiguity intensely - yet ambiguity is almost a principal part of natural language (automatically resolved in our brain by context and experience). So ideally we want a programming language which is intuitive - which we have a fair stab at achieving because they have to be unambiguous. I'd say that even being a little bit 'English-like' might help in this regard, although you do have to dump a whole heap of compromise into such thing's design to pass the 'unambiguous' requirement. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mark at livecode.com Wed May 24 12:55:36 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 18:55:36 +0200 Subject: Writing Extensions In-Reply-To: <72cb9357-af0f-30cb-dde6-ca8d19ba0c7b@sonic.net> References: <21c77d1f-670e-3e8c-7208-51423fc24188@sonic.net> <0daf672be301a7e1daf78c519a113e31@livecode.com> <00d46d75-336a-d312-4220-a0ce3c66acca@sonic.net> <320801ffe9a00bd55db908a5e63e9bc4@livecode.com> <9ccdba466c38c5609143cb874ca4ff08@livecode.com> <72cb9357-af0f-30cb-dde6-ca8d19ba0c7b@sonic.net> Message-ID: On 2017-05-24 18:44, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: >> As I said before, the lack of switch in LCB isn't because we don't >> want >> a construct like that; just that we'd like one which doesn't have the >> issues of C-style switch. (The best way to avoid people accidentally >> introducing subtle bugs, is to ensure the language is designed to not >> let them do so!) > > It's *always* possible to introduce bugs, subtle or not. The best way > to avoid that is not to allow people to code Hehe - well that is certainly true - no one can argue with that! Of course it is always possible to introduce bugs, but when you have a control structure with a syntax which is almost begging for people to make mistakes with it - surely it is worth considering how it could be restructured to prevent that? Indeed, the evidence that there is a problem here is held up by the fact that more recent C compilers have explicit warnings which tell you about potential errors in your switch statements - indeed, IIRC, there is even a way to mark *explicit* fall-through in recent GCC or clang so that you don't get a warning (which is important if you compile your code with warnings-as-errors - we've started to turn more and more warning flags into errors on our codebase to make sure that we don't introduce the errors they warn about). Generally compiler writers aren't going to spend time adding warnings for things which *aren't* a common problem in end-user code - there's far too many other fish to fry. So I generally think that if something in a language design requires compiler writers to add explicit warnings about potential problems in a construct then it suggests the construct is perhaps not as good as it could be. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed May 24 13:05:20 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 17:05:20 +0000 Subject: Sql problem In-Reply-To: References: <9694FB26-B521-4423-99D2-4831BDF91634@gmail.com> Message-ID: <81568C16-573A-453E-BF08-ADCB4B305454@iotecdigital.com> My problem with that is that I use sqlYoga in a fairly complex app. How would I incorporate sqlYoga calls with a web interface and still retrieve the data in the same format as I currently have? If I cannot do that, then the burden of refactoring the entire application would be considerable. Bob S > On May 23, 2017, at 17:53 , Andre Garzia via use-livecode wrote: > > William, > > You could but it is not a good security practice to expose a mysql database > to the larger internet. The internet is very hostile and keeping your mysql > server safe would be a job on its own. Best you use your php cgi or > anything else to put a wall between your database and the net. > > Never, ever, expose a database server. Thats a golden rule. Now, if you're > building something that is for internal use on a LAN, business network, > intranet, then the rules are different, even though, even in this case, I > would put something in front of the database if it was up to me to make > such decision. > > Cheers > andre > > > -- > http://www.andregarzia.com -- All We Do Is Code. > http://fon.nu -- minimalist url shortening service. From ahsoftware at sonic.net Wed May 24 13:14:15 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 10:14:15 -0700 Subject: English Like? In-Reply-To: References: <87287AF1-9463-42DB-B866-3277490A100F@gmail.com> <4951116382f04e0e0322184f38703a00@livecode.com> <1495633525807-4715143.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <4186cfb7-ccf9-865f-9804-9591671ac45a@sonic.net> On 05/24/2017 08:03 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: > Anyway, I shall now get off my (small?) soap-box. Again this is a > discussion, there are lots of reasons why people don't choose LiveCode > and we try our very best to determine them, and deal with them. There > are certainly easier ones to tackle than adding a new 'syntax style' and > of course we intend to address those first... I just want to say that in spite of all the verbiage that showed up overnight, this has been a most enjoyable thread to wake up to. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From capellan2000 at gmail.com Wed May 24 13:21:41 2017 From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 13:21:41 -0400 Subject: send mouseup to control Message-ID: Hi All, Reading LiveCode Dictionary about the target and send, could not find an obvious way to get the name of a message sender without putting first this name in another container (a custom property, a field or a global variable). Why do I need to know which control send a message to another control? Because the handler in the control executes different code depending of which control sends it a mouseup handler. For now, I am using a mouseup button parameter that could be 1 or 2 or 3. If the control receive a mouseup with parameter 1, then executes handler 1. If the mouseup is received with a parameter 2 then control executes handler 2. Which other ways could I use to produce the same result? Al From ahsoftware at sonic.net Wed May 24 13:27:41 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 10:27:41 -0700 Subject: English Like? In-Reply-To: <1495638713434-4715152.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <87287AF1-9463-42DB-B866-3277490A100F@gmail.com> <1495638713434-4715152.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <28e1ced5-5736-7ed5-b0e5-ab8a0b0aa67e@sonic.net> On 05/24/2017 08:11 AM, Martin Koob via use-livecode wrote: > I agree that LiveCode script should become more English like as time goes on > not only with english words but also with more natural(or intuitive) > grammar. > >>From your examples I think it would be more natural to type. > > put the third index of tNumericArray into tFoo The one that's always bugged me is put item 2 of the rect of someObject into tVar Rects have a defined order of items, and I can never remember whether it's "left,top..." or "top,left..." and I end up looking it up every time. I'd love to have a more normal (all right, English-like... there... I've said it) way to remember and write this. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From ahsoftware at sonic.net Wed May 24 13:31:13 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 10:31:13 -0700 Subject: send mouseup to control In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <103e4755-5074-c28e-1a5b-5d9edced0845@sonic.net> On 05/24/2017 10:21 AM, Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode wrote: > Hi All, > > Reading LiveCode Dictionary about the target and send, > could not find an obvious way to get the name of a message > sender without putting first this name in another container > (a custom property, a field or a global variable). > > Why do I need to know which control send a message > to another control? > > Because the handler in the control executes different code > depending of which control sends it a mouseup handler. > > For now, I am using a mouseup button parameter that > could be 1 or 2 or 3. If the control receive a mouseup with > parameter 1, then executes handler 1. If the mouseup is > received with a parameter 2 then control executes > handler 2. > > Which other ways could I use to produce the same result? You could pull the information out of the executionContexts, but you'd probably be better off with a bit of refactoring. Instead of sending a mouseUp message, I'd send the handler 1 or handler 2 message directly. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From revdev at pdslabs.net Wed May 24 13:43:59 2017 From: revdev at pdslabs.net (Phil Davis) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 10:43:59 -0700 Subject: send mouseup to control In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <019429ab-715a-42ec-9bb3-70f1e0264192@pdslabs.net> Hi Al, I wonder if the "call" command could simplify things for you. (Probably not but I thought I would mention it.) Otherwise maybe put your mouseUp code in separate handlers outside of "mouseUp" so you can have more parameter options in their execution. Thanks - Phil Davis On 5/24/17 10:21 AM, Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode wrote: > Hi All, > > Reading LiveCode Dictionary about the target and send, > could not find an obvious way to get the name of a message > sender without putting first this name in another container > (a custom property, a field or a global variable). > > Why do I need to know which control send a message > to another control? > > Because the handler in the control executes different code > depending of which control sends it a mouseup handler. > > For now, I am using a mouseup button parameter that > could be 1 or 2 or 3. If the control receive a mouseup with > parameter 1, then executes handler 1. If the mouseup is > received with a parameter 2 then control executes > handler 2. > > Which other ways could I use to produce the same result? > > Al > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Phil Davis From dochawk at gmail.com Wed May 24 13:51:53 2017 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 10:51:53 -0700 Subject: send mouseup to control In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 10:21 AM, Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > For now, I am using a mouseup button parameter that > could be 1 or 2 or 3. If the control receive a mouseup with > parameter 1, then executes handler 1. If the mouseup is > received with a parameter 2 then control executes > handler 2. > 1) take a look at the values of "me" and "the target" once the handler begins 2) I have plenty of buttons with the script, "dispatch the short name of me" 3) similar would be send doIt && the short name of me to someObject -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From dochawk at gmail.com Wed May 24 13:53:03 2017 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 10:53:03 -0700 Subject: English Like? In-Reply-To: <28e1ced5-5736-7ed5-b0e5-ab8a0b0aa67e@sonic.net> References: <87287AF1-9463-42DB-B866-3277490A100F@gmail.com> <1495638713434-4715152.post@n4.nabble.com> <28e1ced5-5736-7ed5-b0e5-ab8a0b0aa67e@sonic.net> Message-ID: On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 10:27 AM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Rects have a defined order of items, and I can never remember whether it's > "left,top..." or "top,left..." and I end up looking it up every time. I'd > love to have a more normal (all right, English-like... there... I've said > it) way to remember and write this. You seem to be a bit LTRBed by this . . . :) -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed May 24 13:54:17 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 17:54:17 +0000 Subject: English Like? In-Reply-To: References: <87287AF1-9463-42DB-B866-3277490A100F@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5A664E27-8B8E-4847-8C5D-29518ECB6AAB@iotecdigital.com> I'll bite. One of the reasons that the heartbleed bug passed muster was because the code OpenSSL is written in is *not* easily human readable. It's hard enough to spot a bug in LC script. Being human readable makes it tolerable to debug by reading through code. The first time I encountered x = "123" in FoxPro, I thought to myself, "Is that a test that returns true or false? If so where is the result stored?" It isn't the least bit intuitive. And FoxPro/dBase WAS a scripting language, but they were inexorably tied to prior language conventions like Pascal, or else they feared "real programmers" would not adopt it. There is also the issue of pride. Everyone wants to think the decisions they made are the "best" decision that could have been made at the time. To acknowledge there *might* have been something better, or just other, that they could have adopted is personally offensive to some. To suggest it might be easier to develop in Livecode when they already are proficient in C or Java might seem like a criticism of past choices to many. Finally there is the fear of the unknown. The greatest difficuly I have trying to teach people how to work with OS X, is that having spent all the time and effort learning Windows, they imagine the same time and effort will be required to learn OS X. Of course anyone who knows both operating systems knows that is an irrational fear. Most of the things you learn about either OS is common to both. The same applies to software development. The principles are all in place. It's convention that differs. Bob S From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Wed May 24 13:54:37 2017 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 13:54:37 -0400 Subject: English Like? In-Reply-To: <28e1ced5-5736-7ed5-b0e5-ab8a0b0aa67e@sonic.net> References: <87287AF1-9463-42DB-B866-3277490A100F@gmail.com> <1495638713434-4715152.post@n4.nabble.com> <28e1ced5-5736-7ed5-b0e5-ab8a0b0aa67e@sonic.net> Message-ID: like "put the left of someObject"? On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 1:27 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On 05/24/2017 08:11 AM, Martin Koob via use-livecode wrote: > >> I agree that LiveCode script should become more English like as time goes >> on >> not only with english words but also with more natural(or intuitive) >> grammar. >> >> From your examples I think it would be more natural to type. >>> >> >> put the third index of tNumericArray into tFoo >> > > The one that's always bugged me is > > put item 2 of the rect of someObject into tVar > > Rects have a defined order of items, and I can never remember whether it's > "left,top..." or "top,left..." and I end up looking it up every time. I'd > love to have a more normal (all right, English-like... there... I've said > it) way to remember and write this. > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed May 24 13:56:58 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 20:56:58 +0300 Subject: send mouseup to control In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <69944c4a-40f9-222d-4916-a436066a75e4@gmail.com> Replied with demo stack on the Forums: http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=29290 Richmond. On 5/24/17 8:21 pm, Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode wrote: > Hi All, > > Reading LiveCode Dictionary about the target and send, > could not find an obvious way to get the name of a message > sender without putting first this name in another container > (a custom property, a field or a global variable). > > Why do I need to know which control send a message > to another control? > > Because the handler in the control executes different code > depending of which control sends it a mouseup handler. > > For now, I am using a mouseup button parameter that > could be 1 or 2 or 3. If the control receive a mouseup with > parameter 1, then executes handler 1. If the mouseup is > received with a parameter 2 then control executes > handler 2. > > Which other ways could I use to produce the same result? > > Al > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From hh at hyperhh.de Wed May 24 13:58:07 2017 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 19:58:07 +0200 Subject: send mouseup to control Message-ID: > Alejandro T. wrote: > Reading LiveCode Dictionary about the target and send, > could not find an obvious way to get the name of a message > sender without putting first this name in another container > (a custom property, a field or a global variable). Yet another option could be to use more parameters: -- b is the button number (obligatory) -- [b may be also misused for any positive integer] -- clicking the control with that handler leaves x empty on mouseUp b,x switch x case ... break case ... ... default -- x is empty -- the direct-click code, use b end switch end mouseUp From iphonelagi at gmail.com Wed May 24 14:34:39 2017 From: iphonelagi at gmail.com (Lagi Pittas) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 19:34:39 +0100 Subject: English Like? In-Reply-To: <5A664E27-8B8E-4847-8C5D-29518ECB6AAB@iotecdigital.com> References: <87287AF1-9463-42DB-B866-3277490A100F@gmail.com> <5A664E27-8B8E-4847-8C5D-29518ECB6AAB@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: Bob, You forget right upto Visual Foxpro 9, Fox still was backwards compatible with Dbase 2 and still had the STORE statement. STORE A TO B STORE 1+15 to C STORE 5 to a,b,,c,d STORE "HELLO" to message The HC and DBASE way is the logical way to do it for mere mortals, but when the whole computer has 4K WORDS of magnetic backing store (IBM 704 that FORTRAN was written on) you have to use concise syntaxt - a=b instead of put a into B a 25% of the characters in this case. Secondly if your output is paper - Teletype 33 - 10 characters a second , that is another reason. WE do things not because they are the best way but because in the past there were limitations we have forgotten about. To paraphrase Max Planck:- A programming language does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it. Regards Lagi On 24 May 2017 at 18:54, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I'll bite. One of the reasons that the heartbleed bug passed muster was > because the code OpenSSL is written in is *not* easily human readable. It's > hard enough to spot a bug in LC script. Being human readable makes it > tolerable to debug by reading through code. > > The first time I encountered x = "123" in FoxPro, I thought to myself, "Is > that a test that returns true or false? If so where is the result stored?" > It isn't the least bit intuitive. And FoxPro/dBase WAS a scripting > language, but they were inexorably tied to prior language conventions like > Pascal, or else they feared "real programmers" would not adopt it. > > There is also the issue of pride. Everyone wants to think the decisions > they made are the "best" decision that could have been made at the time. To > acknowledge there *might* have been something better, or just other, that > they could have adopted is personally offensive to some. To suggest it > might be easier to develop in Livecode when they already are proficient in > C or Java might seem like a criticism of past choices to many. > > Finally there is the fear of the unknown. The greatest difficuly I have > trying to teach people how to work with OS X, is that having spent all the > time and effort learning Windows, they imagine the same time and effort > will be required to learn OS X. Of course anyone who knows both operating > systems knows that is an irrational fear. Most of the things you learn > about either OS is common to both. The same applies to software > development. The principles are all in place. It's convention that differs. > > Bob S > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From ahsoftware at sonic.net Wed May 24 14:35:21 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 11:35:21 -0700 Subject: English Like? In-Reply-To: References: <87287AF1-9463-42DB-B866-3277490A100F@gmail.com> <1495638713434-4715152.post@n4.nabble.com> <28e1ced5-5736-7ed5-b0e5-ab8a0b0aa67e@sonic.net> Message-ID: On 05/24/2017 10:54 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > like "put the left of someObject"? Heh. Shoulda used a different example. No, my problem is more with changing the rect of an object. Setting the left of an object has repercussions with respect to the other object parameters. If I explicitly want to store values into the rect then I have to use the "item 2" form. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From jonathandlynch at gmail.com Wed May 24 14:43:38 2017 From: jonathandlynch at gmail.com (jonathandlynch at gmail.com) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 14:43:38 -0400 Subject: send mouseup to control In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I just send the ID of the sending object as a parameter. Sent from my iPhone On May 24, 2017, at 1:58 PM, hh via use-livecode wrote: >> Alejandro T. wrote: >> Reading LiveCode Dictionary about the target and send, >> could not find an obvious way to get the name of a message >> sender without putting first this name in another container >> (a custom property, a field or a global variable). > > Yet another option could be to use more parameters: > -- b is the button number (obligatory) > -- [b may be also misused for any positive integer] > -- clicking the control with that handler leaves x empty > on mouseUp b,x > switch x > case ... > break > case ... > ... > default -- x is empty > -- the direct-click code, use b > end switch > end mouseUp > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed May 24 14:50:29 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 11:50:29 -0700 Subject: send mouseup to control In-Reply-To: <103e4755-5074-c28e-1a5b-5d9edced0845@sonic.net> References: <103e4755-5074-c28e-1a5b-5d9edced0845@sonic.net> Message-ID: <99283251-7a27-57d0-a52b-ebd5edf57820@fourthworld.com> Mark Wieder wrote: > You could pull the information out of the executionContexts, but you'd > probably be better off with a bit of refactoring. I'd go with executionContexts. Are there circumstances where this wouldn't work?: function CallerID -- Line -1 = this function -- Line -2 = the script that called this function -- so: return item 1 of line -3 of the executionContexts end CallerID -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ahsoftware at sonic.net Wed May 24 15:14:03 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 12:14:03 -0700 Subject: send mouseup to control In-Reply-To: <99283251-7a27-57d0-a52b-ebd5edf57820@fourthworld.com> References: <103e4755-5074-c28e-1a5b-5d9edced0845@sonic.net> <99283251-7a27-57d0-a52b-ebd5edf57820@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <4f9d0f77-8414-c291-9254-e88f935f322f@sonic.net> On 05/24/2017 11:50 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > Mark Wieder wrote: > > > You could pull the information out of the executionContexts, but you'd > > probably be better off with a bit of refactoring. > > I'd go with executionContexts. Are there circumstances where this > wouldn't work?: > > > function CallerID > -- Line -1 = this function > -- Line -2 = the script that called this function > -- so: > return item 1 of line -3 of the executionContexts > end CallerID > > That would work, but (to use the proper terminology) it has a code smell. It's first of all dependent on the executionContexts format if you're going to pick out the control ID, and while that format isn't likely to change even though undocumented, it seems like yet another level of dependency. There's already a dependence on having to know and IDs of the calling objects, so the mouseUp handler is dependent on the controls that might possibly call it. Any design change in the app might require modifying the mouseUp code. Refactoring to remove the dependencies could look like: on mouseUp -- what actually happens with a real mouse click doRealMouseStuff end mouseUp on handler1 -- make a jazz noise here end handler1 on handler2 -- this space intentionally left blank end handler2 -- in some other control... -- dispatch "mouseUp" to controlWithHandlers -- deprecated dispatch "handler1" to controlWithHandlers Now the object with the handlers doesn't have to know a thing about any other controls that might call its handlers, and the external controls only need know that there is a "handler1" handler in that object. A judicious use of revAvailableHandlers() (again undocumented) could also be useful here. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From ahsoftware at sonic.net Wed May 24 15:20:15 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 12:20:15 -0700 Subject: send mouseup to control In-Reply-To: <4f9d0f77-8414-c291-9254-e88f935f322f@sonic.net> References: <103e4755-5074-c28e-1a5b-5d9edced0845@sonic.net> <99283251-7a27-57d0-a52b-ebd5edf57820@fourthworld.com> <4f9d0f77-8414-c291-9254-e88f935f322f@sonic.net> Message-ID: Heh. Couldn't resist adding this: https://techbeacon.com/35-bad-programming-habits-make-your-code-smell -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From jonathandlynch at gmail.com Wed May 24 15:22:21 2017 From: jonathandlynch at gmail.com (jonathandlynch at gmail.com) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 15:22:21 -0400 Subject: Is there any way at all to have a mobile app simply resume rather than restart? Message-ID: <9AF7F586-BD6F-45E2-8167-FB62A876B5EB@gmail.com> Having to restart the app from scratch sucks. I can store the current state, but my users would have to wait for the map widget to reload every time they came back from another app. Sent from my iPhone From alex at tweedly.net Wed May 24 15:25:41 2017 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 20:25:41 +0100 Subject: English Like? In-Reply-To: <28e1ced5-5736-7ed5-b0e5-ab8a0b0aa67e@sonic.net> References: <87287AF1-9463-42DB-B866-3277490A100F@gmail.com> <1495638713434-4715152.post@n4.nabble.com> <28e1ced5-5736-7ed5-b0e5-ab8a0b0aa67e@sonic.net> Message-ID: constant kRectLeft = 1, kRectTop = 2, kRectRight = 3, kRectBottom = 4 (or whatever ... haven't looked it up :-) Alex. On 24/05/2017 18:27, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > The one that's always bugged me is > > put item 2 of the rect of someObject into tVar > > Rects have a defined order of items, and I can never remember whether > it's "left,top..." or "top,left..." and I end up looking it up every > time. I'd love to have a more normal (all right, English-like... > there... I've said it) way to remember and write this. > From ahsoftware at sonic.net Wed May 24 15:35:09 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 12:35:09 -0700 Subject: English Like? In-Reply-To: References: <87287AF1-9463-42DB-B866-3277490A100F@gmail.com> <1495638713434-4715152.post@n4.nabble.com> <28e1ced5-5736-7ed5-b0e5-ab8a0b0aa67e@sonic.net> Message-ID: <9a229069-7873-5c49-a22a-664b0ba3a345@sonic.net> On 05/24/2017 12:25 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote: > constant kRectLeft = 1, kRectTop = 2, kRectRight = 3, kRectBottom = 4 > > (or whatever ... haven't looked it up :-) Exactly the point. I'd have to store this somewhere, and either grab it each time I need it or look it up and reinvent it each time. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Wed May 24 15:34:53 2017 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 15:34:53 -0400 Subject: Is there any way at all to have a mobile app simply resume rather than restart? In-Reply-To: <9AF7F586-BD6F-45E2-8167-FB62A876B5EB@gmail.com> References: <9AF7F586-BD6F-45E2-8167-FB62A876B5EB@gmail.com> Message-ID: If you're referring to ios, look up "plist hack", here. The only thing to remember is that for each version of LC, you have to perform the hack, again, until Edinburgh gives us a Standalone Settings option. On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 3:22 PM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Having to restart the app from scratch sucks. I can store the current > state, but my users would have to wait for the map widget to reload every > time they came back from another app. > > Sent from my iPhone > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Wed May 24 15:42:16 2017 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 15:42:16 -0400 Subject: Dropbox v1 API - one month until it is shut off! Message-ID: Reminder, everyone using dropbox, you have until the end of June to get your apps migrated to the v2 API before your dropbox functionality will cease. Rumor says that the Dropbox team is granting reprieves to people who ask for them, but I don't know if that's for everyone for every app. If you are using the phx_dropboxLib library, my advice is that you download Gerard McCarthy's dropboxAPI_2 lib and get your code switched. If you don't already have it, I have it as a repo on github ( https://github.com/macMikey/dropboxapi_v2), both as a binary stack and as a script-only stack, but it is available in a variety of places. If you are using mergDropbox, I just sent a reminder to Edinburgh that Monte has work to do, but I don't have an ETA. -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From jonathandlynch at gmail.com Wed May 24 15:43:27 2017 From: jonathandlynch at gmail.com (jonathandlynch at gmail.com) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 15:43:27 -0400 Subject: Is there any way at all to have a mobile app simply resume rather than restart? In-Reply-To: References: <9AF7F586-BD6F-45E2-8167-FB62A876B5EB@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thank you! Sent from my iPhone > On May 24, 2017, at 3:34 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > > If you're referring to ios, look up "plist hack", here. The only thing to > remember is that for each version of LC, you have to perform the hack, > again, until Edinburgh gives us a Standalone Settings option. > > On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 3:22 PM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> Having to restart the app from scratch sucks. I can store the current >> state, but my users would have to wait for the map widget to reload every >> time they came back from another app. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Wed May 24 15:44:34 2017 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 15:44:34 -0400 Subject: English Like? In-Reply-To: <58dbb4b17268587b57e978ffe4d2c7f7@livecode.com> References: <87287AF1-9463-42DB-B866-3277490A100F@gmail.com> <4951116382f04e0e0322184f38703a00@livecode.com> <1495633525807-4715143.post@n4.nabble.com> <603B28D5-80C5-4FE6-991F-4CAAB6261D8B@earthlearningsolutions.org> <70b8181f-54f8-dc44-1dae-bf19a3c27c2c@gmail.com> <58dbb4b17268587b57e978ffe4d2c7f7@livecode.com> Message-ID: On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 12:47 PM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hehe - what an enjoyable post to read - I couldn't resist 'biting' > on a few things though ;) > > On 2017-05-24 17:57, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: > >> Probably most of those programmers (like many well-established >> LiveCode programmers) have invested so much time and effort >> in learning the high level language(s) they already use that they are >> unlikely to switch. > > > This is partly true - however, 'no man is an island', people develop > preconceptions about things over time which influence the choices in > the future. > > I think it would be fair to say there might well be some sort of general > 'meme' which floats around with regards to 'English-like' languages > and not necessarily a positive one. Star Trek is the best advocate for English-like computing in the future. And now Siri, Alexa, and Google Assistant have made it a reality. Meme-like: http://imgur.com/Dtp7IPQ ~Roger From alex at tweedly.net Wed May 24 15:44:46 2017 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 20:44:46 +0100 Subject: English Like? In-Reply-To: <9a229069-7873-5c49-a22a-664b0ba3a345@sonic.net> References: <87287AF1-9463-42DB-B866-3277490A100F@gmail.com> <1495638713434-4715152.post@n4.nabble.com> <28e1ced5-5736-7ed5-b0e5-ab8a0b0aa67e@sonic.net> <9a229069-7873-5c49-a22a-664b0ba3a345@sonic.net> Message-ID: Then I'll confess that what I would actually do is - make them globals (??!!) - initialize them in the "on librarystack" handler of my standard (i.e. always used) library stack - and be comforted that my use of 'explicitvars' will ensure I know if they are not included as global in any script that uses them. Now if only I could have "constant global"s I'd be (almost*) happy. Alex. * almost - because I'd then still grumble about not being able to do simple expressions in constant statements; e.g. constant kSecsPerDay = 60 * 60 * 24, kSpD = kSpM * kMpH * kHpD On 24/05/2017 20:35, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > On 05/24/2017 12:25 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote: >> constant kRectLeft = 1, kRectTop = 2, kRectRight = 3, kRectBottom = 4 >> >> (or whatever ... haven't looked it up :-) > > Exactly the point. > I'd have to store this somewhere, and either grab it each time I need > it or look it up and reinvent it each time. > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed May 24 15:49:01 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 12:49:01 -0700 Subject: send mouseup to control In-Reply-To: <4f9d0f77-8414-c291-9254-e88f935f322f@sonic.net> References: <4f9d0f77-8414-c291-9254-e88f935f322f@sonic.net> Message-ID: <7a8c8402-db9a-c099-78e6-024c7e1e7e33@fourthworld.com> Mark Wieder wrote: > On 05/24/2017 11:50 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: >> I'd go with executionContexts. Are there circumstances where this >> wouldn't work?: >> >> function CallerID >> -- Line -1 = this function >> -- Line -2 = the script that called this function >> -- so: >> return item 1 of line -3 of the executionContexts >> end CallerID >> > > That would work, but (to use the proper terminology) it has a code > smell. It's first of all dependent on the executionContexts format if > you're going to pick out the control ID, and while that format isn't > likely to change even though undocumented, it seems like yet another > level of dependency. There's already a dependence on having to know and > IDs of the calling objects, so the mouseUp handler is dependent on the > controls that might possibly call it. Any design change in the app might > require modifying the mouseUp code. True, it relies on data returned from the engine, and that the scripter using the function understands how to use it. But those seem modest requirements. I can't think of much in any language or library not exposed to those two potential weaknesses. :) The executionContexts is documented, though in all fairness that Dict entry includes a note about not relying on the format of its contents. But a LOT of code in the LC universe currently depends on it, and the role it serves is essential for critical things like debugging. And it hasn't changed in more than 15 years. Given all that, for myself I find the trade-offs acceptable. If the format changes down the road I certainly won't be the only person changing scripts to keep current. > Refactoring to remove the dependencies could look like: > > on mouseUp > -- what actually happens with a real mouse click > doRealMouseStuff > end mouseUp > > on handler1 > -- make a jazz noise here > end handler1 > > on handler2 > -- this space intentionally left blank > end handler2 > > -- in some other control... > -- dispatch "mouseUp" to controlWithHandlers -- deprecated > dispatch "handler1" to controlWithHandlers > > Now the object with the handlers doesn't have to know a thing about any > other controls that might call its handlers, and the external controls > only need know that there is a "handler1" handler in that object. A > judicious use of revAvailableHandlers() (again undocumented) could also > be useful here. I would be much more hesitant to rely on a function designed for IDE use like revAvailableHandlers, but even there we don't really have an alternative other than hand-crafing a slower replacement, so I use that one too (though in only one place in my dev tools). As for the refactoring, so much depends on the particulars of the use-case. Your outline above might be ideal if handling a specific number of objects/options. But if the handler being called needs to know the caller ID for some purpose other than simple branching among a small number of options, factoring could range from tedious to impractical. Like so much in code, it all depends on "Why" we need a given piece of information. > Heh. Couldn't resist adding this: > https://techbeacon.com/35-bad-programming-habits-make-your-code-smell Fun read, and very relevant: many of the items in that list appear to contradict others. I don't see that as a bad thing. Coding is a mix of knowing so-called "best practices", and knowing when to skip 'em. :) As such, that list is an uncommonly realistic one. Everything in a finite and imperfect universe involves trade-offs.... -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Wed May 24 15:50:28 2017 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 15:50:28 -0400 Subject: Is there any way at all to have a mobile app simply resume rather than restart? In-Reply-To: References: <9AF7F586-BD6F-45E2-8167-FB62A876B5EB@gmail.com> Message-ID: The other thing to remember is that you will have to command-drag the LC app out of your Applications folder, modify it, then put it back (you can't modify an application in the applications folder). On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 3:43 PM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Thank you! > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On May 24, 2017, at 3:34 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > If you're referring to ios, look up "plist hack", here. The only thing > to > > remember is that for each version of LC, you have to perform the hack, > > again, until Edinburgh gives us a Standalone Settings option. > > > > On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 3:22 PM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > >> Having to restart the app from scratch sucks. I can store the current > >> state, but my users would have to wait for the map widget to reload > every > >> time they came back from another app. > >> > >> Sent from my iPhone > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > and did a little diving. > > And God said, "This is good." > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From jonathandlynch at gmail.com Wed May 24 15:54:32 2017 From: jonathandlynch at gmail.com (jonathandlynch at gmail.com) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 15:54:32 -0400 Subject: Is there any way at all to have a mobile app simply resume rather than restart? In-Reply-To: References: <9AF7F586-BD6F-45E2-8167-FB62A876B5EB@gmail.com> Message-ID: It looks like the plist hack is not available in version 8. Choosing background audio works - but that means I need to have a plausible reason for having background audio or Apple reviewers might ding the app. What a pain - why not just allow it to work the way other apps work? Sent from my iPhone > On May 24, 2017, at 3:43 PM, jonathandlynch at gmail.com wrote: > > Thank you! > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On May 24, 2017, at 3:34 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: >> >> If you're referring to ios, look up "plist hack", here. The only thing to >> remember is that for each version of LC, you have to perform the hack, >> again, until Edinburgh gives us a Standalone Settings option. >> >> On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 3:22 PM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >>> Having to restart the app from scratch sucks. I can store the current >>> state, but my users would have to wait for the map widget to reload every >>> time they came back from another app. >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >> On the second day, God created the oceans. >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >> and did a little diving. >> And God said, "This is good." >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Wed May 24 16:05:16 2017 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 16:05:16 -0400 Subject: Is there any way at all to have a mobile app simply resume rather than restart? In-Reply-To: References: <9AF7F586-BD6F-45E2-8167-FB62A876B5EB@gmail.com> Message-ID: <00a901d2d4c9$0fe9a0d0$2fbce270$@net> Jonathan, This works in V8/V9. I don't make a copy. 1) In the app bundle look in the folder ==>"Tools/Runtime/iOS" set all the folders to read/write. 2) Edit the setting.plist in each of the folders and change UIApplicationExitsOnSuspend key value to "False" (or like I do...delete the key all together) Apple has never complained. But... Ticking the "Background Audio" option sets UIBackgroundModes key to "audio". You will get rejected if you app does not play background audio. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 3:55 PM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: jonathandlynch at gmail.com Subject: Re: Is there any way at all to have a mobile app simply resume rather than restart? It looks like the plist hack is not available in version 8. Choosing background audio works - but that means I need to have a plausible reason for having background audio or Apple reviewers might ding the app. What a pain - why not just allow it to work the way other apps work? Sent from my iPhone > On May 24, 2017, at 3:43 PM, jonathandlynch at gmail.com wrote: > > Thank you! > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On May 24, 2017, at 3:34 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: >> >> If you're referring to ios, look up "plist hack", here. The only >> thing to remember is that for each version of LC, you have to perform >> the hack, again, until Edinburgh gives us a Standalone Settings option. >> >> On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 3:22 PM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >>> Having to restart the app from scratch sucks. I can store the >>> current state, but my users would have to wait for the map widget to >>> reload every time they came back from another app. >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second >> day, God created the oceans. >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and >> did a little diving. >> And God said, "This is good." >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Wed May 24 16:07:51 2017 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 16:07:51 -0400 Subject: Is there any way at all to have a mobile app simply resume rather than restart? In-Reply-To: References: <9AF7F586-BD6F-45E2-8167-FB62A876B5EB@gmail.com> Message-ID: Are you sure? I'm pretty sure I have at least a couple of apps I built in 8 that still use the hack. On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 3:54 PM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > It looks like the plist hack is not available in version 8. > > Choosing background audio works - but that means I need to have a > plausible reason for having background audio or Apple reviewers might ding > the app. > > What a pain - why not just allow it to work the way other apps work? > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On May 24, 2017, at 3:43 PM, jonathandlynch at gmail.com wrote: > > > > Thank you! > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > >> On May 24, 2017, at 3:34 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> > >> If you're referring to ios, look up "plist hack", here. The only thing > to > >> remember is that for each version of LC, you have to perform the hack, > >> again, until Edinburgh gives us a Standalone Settings option. > >> > >> On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 3:22 PM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode < > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> > >>> Having to restart the app from scratch sucks. I can store the current > >>> state, but my users would have to wait for the map widget to reload > every > >>> time they came back from another app. > >>> > >>> Sent from my iPhone > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> use-livecode mailing list > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >>> subscription preferences: > >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > >> On the second day, God created the oceans. > >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > >> and did a little diving. > >> And God said, "This is good." > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From ali.lloyd at livecode.com Wed May 24 16:18:01 2017 From: ali.lloyd at livecode.com (Ali Lloyd) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 20:18:01 +0000 Subject: English Like? In-Reply-To: <9a229069-7873-5c49-a22a-664b0ba3a345@sonic.net> References: <87287AF1-9463-42DB-B866-3277490A100F@gmail.com> <1495638713434-4715152.post@n4.nabble.com> <28e1ced5-5736-7ed5-b0e5-ab8a0b0aa67e@sonic.net> <9a229069-7873-5c49-a22a-664b0ba3a345@sonic.net> Message-ID: All this chat reminds me about this old pull request: https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/1587/files and blog post https://livecode.com/extending-the-refactored-engine-properties/ the top/bottom/left/right/middle/area etc of rect could probably be done in the same way. OK so it's maybe not quite the right approach but it was fun to implement! On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 8:35 PM Mark Wieder via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On 05/24/2017 12:25 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote: > > constant kRectLeft = 1, kRectTop = 2, kRectRight = 3, kRectBottom = 4 > > > > (or whatever ... haven't looked it up :-) > > Exactly the point. > I'd have to store this somewhere, and either grab it each time I need it > or look it up and reinvent it each time. > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From jonathandlynch at gmail.com Wed May 24 16:27:08 2017 From: jonathandlynch at gmail.com (jonathandlynch at gmail.com) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 16:27:08 -0400 Subject: Is there any way at all to have a mobile app simply resume rather than restart? In-Reply-To: References: <9AF7F586-BD6F-45E2-8167-FB62A876B5EB@gmail.com> Message-ID: I read that on the forums, but I defer to Ralph on this. I am playing with the hack now. I think I could also have a legitimate reason for playing audio - changing the music as a user gets closer to a marker - but that would be a lot of trouble to set up right now. Sent from my iPhone > On May 24, 2017, at 4:07 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > > Are you sure? I'm pretty sure I have at least a couple of apps I built in > 8 that still use the hack. > > On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 3:54 PM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> It looks like the plist hack is not available in version 8. >> >> Choosing background audio works - but that means I need to have a >> plausible reason for having background audio or Apple reviewers might ding >> the app. >> >> What a pain - why not just allow it to work the way other apps work? >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On May 24, 2017, at 3:43 PM, jonathandlynch at gmail.com wrote: >>> >>> Thank you! >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On May 24, 2017, at 3:34 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> If you're referring to ios, look up "plist hack", here. The only thing >> to >>>> remember is that for each version of LC, you have to perform the hack, >>>> again, until Edinburgh gives us a Standalone Settings option. >>>> >>>> On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 3:22 PM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode < >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Having to restart the app from scratch sucks. I can store the current >>>>> state, but my users would have to wait for the map widget to reload >> every >>>>> time they came back from another app. >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >>>> On the second day, God created the oceans. >>>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >>>> and did a little diving. >>>> And God said, "This is good." >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jonathandlynch at gmail.com Wed May 24 16:37:14 2017 From: jonathandlynch at gmail.com (jonathandlynch at gmail.com) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 16:37:14 -0400 Subject: Is there any way at all to have a mobile app simply resume rather than restart? In-Reply-To: References: <9AF7F586-BD6F-45E2-8167-FB62A876B5EB@gmail.com> Message-ID: I don't actually know how to do any of the steps for this - would be easy on a pc. Researching it now. Sent from my iPhone > On May 24, 2017, at 4:27 PM, jonathandlynch at gmail.com wrote: > > I read that on the forums, but I defer to Ralph on this. > > I am playing with the hack now. > > I think I could also have a legitimate reason for playing audio - changing the music as a user gets closer to a marker - but that would be a lot of trouble to set up right now. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On May 24, 2017, at 4:07 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Are you sure? I'm pretty sure I have at least a couple of apps I built in >> 8 that still use the hack. >> >> On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 3:54 PM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >>> It looks like the plist hack is not available in version 8. >>> >>> Choosing background audio works - but that means I need to have a >>> plausible reason for having background audio or Apple reviewers might ding >>> the app. >>> >>> What a pain - why not just allow it to work the way other apps work? >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On May 24, 2017, at 3:43 PM, jonathandlynch at gmail.com wrote: >>>> >>>> Thank you! >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On May 24, 2017, at 3:34 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> If you're referring to ios, look up "plist hack", here. The only thing >>> to >>>>> remember is that for each version of LC, you have to perform the hack, >>>>> again, until Edinburgh gives us a Standalone Settings option. >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 3:22 PM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode < >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Having to restart the app from scratch sucks. I can store the current >>>>>> state, but my users would have to wait for the map widget to reload >>> every >>>>>> time they came back from another app. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >>>>> On the second day, God created the oceans. >>>>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >>>>> and did a little diving. >>>>> And God said, "This is good." >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >> On the second day, God created the oceans. >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >> and did a little diving. >> And God said, "This is good." >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From scott at tactilemedia.com Wed May 24 16:41:50 2017 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 13:41:50 -0700 Subject: English Like? In-Reply-To: <9a229069-7873-5c49-a22a-664b0ba3a345@sonic.net> References: <87287AF1-9463-42DB-B866-3277490A100F@gmail.com> <1495638713434-4715152.post@n4.nabble.com> <28e1ced5-5736-7ed5-b0e5-ab8a0b0aa67e@sonic.net> <9a229069-7873-5c49-a22a-664b0ba3a345@sonic.net> Message-ID: @Mark ? the sequence/direction is clockwise, if that helps. So top -> left? doesn?t work. Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design > On May 24, 2017, at 12:35 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > > On 05/24/2017 12:25 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote: >> constant kRectLeft = 1, kRectTop = 2, kRectRight = 3, kRectBottom = 4 >> (or whatever ... haven't looked it up :-) > > Exactly the point. > I'd have to store this somewhere, and either grab it each time I need it or look it up and reinvent it each time. > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Wed May 24 17:17:41 2017 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 17:17:41 -0400 Subject: Is there any way at all to have a mobile app simply resume rather than restart? In-Reply-To: References: <9AF7F586-BD6F-45E2-8167-FB62A876B5EB@gmail.com> Message-ID: <00b301d2d4d3$2e274840$8a75d8c0$@net> 1) Go to the Applications folder 2) Right click on the LC app you are using and select "Show Package Contents" 3) Navigate to the "Tools/Runtime/iOS" folder 4) Right click on all the device/simulator folders one at a time and select "Get Info" 5) At the bottom click on the "Read only" to the right of your account name and select "Read & Write" 6) Repeat 5 for all device/simulator folders 7) In each of the device/simulator folders edit the setting.plist file. 8) To edit... right click the setting.plist file and select "Open With" and then "Other..." and select "TextEdit.app". 9) You will get a warning that the file is locked. Choose the Unlock option. 10) Either change UIApplicationExitsOnSuspend key value to "False" or like I do delete the key all together(2 lines) 11) repeat 8-10 for setting.plist in each of the device/simulator folders. 12) Fire up LC and make an iOS app. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 4:37 PM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: jonathandlynch at gmail.com Subject: Re: Is there any way at all to have a mobile app simply resume rather than restart? I don't actually know how to do any of the steps for this - would be easy on a pc. Researching it now. Sent from my iPhone > On May 24, 2017, at 4:27 PM, jonathandlynch at gmail.com wrote: > > I read that on the forums, but I defer to Ralph on this. > > I am playing with the hack now. > > I think I could also have a legitimate reason for playing audio - changing the music as a user gets closer to a marker - but that would be a lot of trouble to set up right now. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On May 24, 2017, at 4:07 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Are you sure? I'm pretty sure I have at least a couple of apps I >> built in >> 8 that still use the hack. >> >> On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 3:54 PM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >>> It looks like the plist hack is not available in version 8. >>> >>> Choosing background audio works - but that means I need to have a >>> plausible reason for having background audio or Apple reviewers >>> might ding the app. >>> >>> What a pain - why not just allow it to work the way other apps work? >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On May 24, 2017, at 3:43 PM, jonathandlynch at gmail.com wrote: >>>> >>>> Thank you! >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On May 24, 2017, at 3:34 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> If you're referring to ios, look up "plist hack", here. The only >>>>> thing >>> to >>>>> remember is that for each version of LC, you have to perform the >>>>> hack, again, until Edinburgh gives us a Standalone Settings option. >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 3:22 PM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode < >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Having to restart the app from scratch sucks. I can store the >>>>>> current state, but my users would have to wait for the map widget >>>>>> to reload >>> every >>>>>> time they came back from another app. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the >>>>> second day, God created the oceans. >>>>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and >>>>> did a little diving. >>>>> And God said, "This is good." >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second >> day, God created the oceans. >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and >> did a little diving. >> And God said, "This is good." >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From capellan2000 at gmail.com Wed May 24 17:26:55 2017 From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 17:26:55 -0400 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 83 Message-ID: This Week in LiveCode Newsletter wrote: > Peter Brett has sadly left us for pastures new, > we wish him all the best in his new post and > he will of course be missed. Our thanks for > his sterling contribution to advancing LiveCode > over the last few years. I visited Peter's blog looking for more info: http://blog.peter-b.co.uk/ but found nothing about this job's change. Now, Who is the new LiveCode Technical Project Manager? Welcome to Alex Brisan and Chris Colman. I hope that both find time to participate in the forums and mail list and meet the wonderful community of people from this development platform. Al From ahsoftware at sonic.net Wed May 24 17:30:52 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 14:30:52 -0700 Subject: English Like? In-Reply-To: References: <87287AF1-9463-42DB-B866-3277490A100F@gmail.com> <1495638713434-4715152.post@n4.nabble.com> <28e1ced5-5736-7ed5-b0e5-ab8a0b0aa67e@sonic.net> <9a229069-7873-5c49-a22a-664b0ba3a345@sonic.net> Message-ID: <298fe31f-d4ec-76e1-2dc4-fef69d5eb30a@sonic.net> On 05/24/2017 01:41 PM, Scott Rossi via use-livecode wrote: > @Mark ? the sequence/direction is clockwise, if that helps. So top -> left? doesn?t work. That does, in a way. Now I only have to remember whether it's clockwise or the other one. And that it doesn't start at the top - TopRightBottomLeft seems more clockwise to me. Or at least more like a clock. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From ahsoftware at sonic.net Wed May 24 17:47:15 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 14:47:15 -0700 Subject: English Like? In-Reply-To: References: <87287AF1-9463-42DB-B866-3277490A100F@gmail.com> <4951116382f04e0e0322184f38703a00@livecode.com> <1495633525807-4715143.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <107595c6-0535-caa1-6361-470d9fe2dc74@sonic.net> On 05/24/2017 08:03 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: > Syntax is an emotive issue (I could beat Python to death with some of the decisions they have made about syntax - but yet I still use it and slightly enjoy doing so for the purposes I use it for) - but it is not the be-all-and-end-all. I could say the same for any of the computer languages I use. And not just computer languages- the various forms of the irregular verbs for instance... Old English beon, beom, bion "be, exist, come to be, become, happen," from Proto-Germanic *biju- "I am, I will be." This "b-root" is from PIE root *bheue- "to be, exist, grow," and in addition to the words in English it yielded German present first and second person singular (bin, bist, from Old High German bim "I am," bist "thou art"), Latin perfective tenses of esse (fui "I was," etc.), Old Church Slavonic byti "be," Greek phu- "become," Old Irish bi'u "I am," Lithuanian bu'ti "to be," Russian byt' "to be," etc. The modern verb to be in its entirety represents the merger of two once-distinct verbs, the "b-root" represented by be and the am/was verb, which was itself a conglomerate. Roger Lass ("Old English") describes the verb as "a collection of semantically related paradigm fragments," while Weekley calls it "an accidental conglomeration from the different Old English dial[ect]s." It is the most irregular verb in Modern English and the most common. Collective in all Germanic languages, it has eight different forms in Modern English: BE (infinitive, subjunctive, imperative) AM (present 1st person singular) ARE (present 2nd person singular and all plural) IS (present 3rd person singular) WAS (past 1st and 3rd persons singular) WERE (past 2nd person singular, all plural; subjunctive) BEING (progressive & present participle; gerund) BEEN (perfect participle). Old English am had two plural forms: 1. sind/sindon, sie and 2. earon/aron. The s- form (also used in the subjunctive) fell from English in the early 13c. (though its cousin continues in German sind, the 3rd person plural of "to be") and was replaced by forms of be, but aron (see are) continued, and as am and be merged it encroached on some uses that previously had belonged to be. By the early 1500s it had established its place in standard English. That but this blow Might be the be all, and the end all. ["Macbeth" I.vii.5] -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From ahsoftware at sonic.net Wed May 24 17:49:46 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 14:49:46 -0700 Subject: English Like? In-Reply-To: References: <87287AF1-9463-42DB-B866-3277490A100F@gmail.com> Message-ID: <26c44d74-0cf3-56e5-89a4-aaa3eda64e8d@sonic.net> On 05/24/2017 05:43 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > One of the other things that the xtalk languages have that makes them more > appealing is synonyms -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From jonathandlynch at gmail.com Wed May 24 17:57:10 2017 From: jonathandlynch at gmail.com (jonathandlynch at gmail.com) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 17:57:10 -0400 Subject: Is there any way at all to have a mobile app simply resume rather than restart? In-Reply-To: <00b301d2d4d3$2e274840$8a75d8c0$@net> References: <9AF7F586-BD6F-45E2-8167-FB62A876B5EB@gmail.com> <00b301d2d4d3$2e274840$8a75d8c0$@net> Message-ID: <376308F6-EA5E-4CF0-913F-22BDE426F00D@gmail.com> This is great Ralph Thank you I wonder if this can open up other possibilities as well Sent from my iPhone > On May 24, 2017, at 5:17 PM, Ralph DiMola wrote: > > 1) Go to the Applications folder > 2) Right click on the LC app you are using and select "Show Package > Contents" > 3) Navigate to the "Tools/Runtime/iOS" folder > 4) Right click on all the device/simulator folders one at a time and select > "Get Info" > 5) At the bottom click on the "Read only" to the right of your account name > and select "Read & Write" > 6) Repeat 5 for all device/simulator folders > 7) In each of the device/simulator folders edit the setting.plist file. > 8) To edit... right click the setting.plist file and select "Open With" and > then "Other..." and select "TextEdit.app". > 9) You will get a warning that the file is locked. Choose the Unlock option. > > 10) Either change UIApplicationExitsOnSuspend key value to "False" or like I > do delete the key all together(2 lines) > 11) repeat 8-10 for setting.plist in each of the device/simulator folders. > 12) Fire up LC and make an iOS app. > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > > -----Original Message----- > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf > Of Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode > Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 4:37 PM > To: How to use LiveCode > Cc: jonathandlynch at gmail.com > Subject: Re: Is there any way at all to have a mobile app simply resume > rather than restart? > > I don't actually know how to do any of the steps for this - would be easy on > a pc. Researching it now. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On May 24, 2017, at 4:27 PM, jonathandlynch at gmail.com wrote: >> >> I read that on the forums, but I defer to Ralph on this. >> >> I am playing with the hack now. >> >> I think I could also have a legitimate reason for playing audio - changing > the music as a user gets closer to a marker - but that would be a lot of > trouble to set up right now. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On May 24, 2017, at 4:07 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode > wrote: >>> >>> Are you sure? I'm pretty sure I have at least a couple of apps I >>> built in >>> 8 that still use the hack. >>> >>> On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 3:54 PM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> >>>> It looks like the plist hack is not available in version 8. >>>> >>>> Choosing background audio works - but that means I need to have a >>>> plausible reason for having background audio or Apple reviewers >>>> might ding the app. >>>> >>>> What a pain - why not just allow it to work the way other apps work? >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On May 24, 2017, at 3:43 PM, jonathandlynch at gmail.com wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Thank you! >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On May 24, 2017, at 3:34 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> If you're referring to ios, look up "plist hack", here. The only >>>>>> thing >>>> to >>>>>> remember is that for each version of LC, you have to perform the >>>>>> hack, again, until Edinburgh gives us a Standalone Settings option. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 3:22 PM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode < >>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Having to restart the app from scratch sucks. I can store the >>>>>>> current state, but my users would have to wait for the map widget >>>>>>> to reload >>>> every >>>>>>> time they came back from another app. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the >>>>>> second day, God created the oceans. >>>>>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and >>>>>> did a little diving. >>>>>> And God said, "This is good." >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second >>> day, God created the oceans. >>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and >>> did a little diving. >>> And God said, "This is good." >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From capellan2000 at gmail.com Wed May 24 17:57:47 2017 From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 17:57:47 -0400 Subject: English Like? Message-ID: Or you could remember that the Rectangle of a control is a repetition of two coordinates: xyxy Left and Right are on X axis Top and Bottom are on Y axis. > on 05/24/2017 01:41 PM, Scott Rossi wrote: > the sequence/direction is clockwise, if that helps. > So top -> left? doesn?t work. > Mark Wieder wrote: > That does, in a way. Now I only have to remember > whether it's clockwise or the other one. > And that it doesn't start at the top - > TopRightBottomLeft seems more clockwise to me. > Or at least more like a clock. Al From monte at appisle.net Wed May 24 18:05:39 2017 From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 08:05:39 +1000 Subject: Dropbox v1 API - one month until it is shut off! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7BEAFBC8-FA77-42A0-A36D-C3183C7DE5D9@appisle.net> We have a derivative of Gerard?s library in LC 9: https://github.com/livecode/livecode/blob/develop/extensions/script-libraries/dropbox/dropbox.livecodescript There is not much point maintaining mergDropbox if there are script library alternatives available. Cheers Monte > On 25 May 2017, at 5:42 am, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > > Reminder, everyone using dropbox, you have until the end of June to get > your apps migrated to the v2 API before your dropbox functionality will > cease. Rumor says that the Dropbox team is granting reprieves to people > who ask for them, but I don't know if that's for everyone for every app. > > If you are using the phx_dropboxLib library, my advice is that you download > Gerard McCarthy's dropboxAPI_2 lib and get your code switched. If you > don't already have it, I have it as a repo on github ( > https://github.com/macMikey/dropboxapi_v2), both as a binary stack and as a > script-only stack, but it is available in a variety of places. > > If you are using mergDropbox, I just sent a reminder to Edinburgh that > Monte has work to do, but I don't have an ETA. > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From monte at appisle.net Wed May 24 18:10:43 2017 From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 08:10:43 +1000 Subject: Writing Extensions In-Reply-To: References: <741ED1EE-410C-49F5-AB49-1994B35C0B39@hyperhh.de> Message-ID: <136EE19F-9988-4011-BACD-A8CDF3AA4ABB@appisle.net> > On 24 May 2017, at 10:21 pm, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: > >> Switch in LCB -- Monte asked to have the opportunity to do the job: >> http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?p=131509#p131509 > > Yes... I'm not sure I quite see your point (especially as he said 'Is there any chance switch will be implemented as a control structure.', not 'how would I implement...') :) Lol? FWIW I still wouldn?t have any idea how to implement it, I still would like it and regardless of what the boss says I think it would do my head in if we had it and it was different to the LCS one ;-) Cheers Monte From cubist at aol.com Wed May 24 18:30:31 2017 From: cubist at aol.com (Quentin Long) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 18:30:31 -0400 Subject: breakpoint on parameter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <15c3c9538b3-1490-4368@webjasstg-vaa30.srv.aolmail.net> sez "J. Landman Gay" : | On 5/23/17 10:36 AM, Matt Maier via use-livecode wrote: | > I want to find out which parts of my code are making changes to a control's | > parameter. Specifically, I've got an arrow that I want to be black, and it | > is black when it's created, but then it turns gray. I can't find the script | > that's turning it gray. | > | > I don't know where to put a breakpoint in the script. | > | > Can I put a breakpoint on that control's color parameter, so execution | > stops whenever something modifies it and goes to the script that's doing | > the modification? | | You can't break for a parameter per se, only at a specified line of | script. ? I just had an idea that might be helpful for Matt Maier? If I'm reading the LC Dictionary aright, the property "executionContexts" should be very useful for nailing down which handler did what at whatever time; you just need to look at the executionContexts at just the right moment. So, use a "send [whatever] in [time]" loop, like so: on ColorCheck if (the color of the specific control) = "gray" then answer the executionContexts end if if the optionKey is up then send "ColorCheck" to me in 50 milliseconds end ColorCheck Ordinarily, "send [whatever] in [time]" loops are frowned upon because they burn cycles gratuitously, thus slowing down the stack's operations. But in this case, slowing down the stack's operations should be acceptable, as it gives you a better chance of catching the offending command (i.e., the one that's doing the color-change) in the act. Troubleshooting: If what's really happening is an change in the control's blend property, that could make the control *appear* to change color while said color is actually the same, in which case the "answer the executionContexts" line would never execute. If this happens, check for a change in the control's blend property, not a change in the control's color property. "Bewitched" + "Charlie's Angels" - Charlie = "At Arm's Length" Read the webcomic at [?http://www.atarmslength.net?]! If you like "At Arm's Length", support it at [?http://www.patreon.com/DarkwingDude?]. From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed May 24 18:38:36 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 15:38:36 -0700 Subject: English Like? In-Reply-To: <298fe31f-d4ec-76e1-2dc4-fef69d5eb30a@sonic.net> References: <298fe31f-d4ec-76e1-2dc4-fef69d5eb30a@sonic.net> Message-ID: <79c048c0-dca1-e8cd-8525-dc1cd63a9353@fourthworld.com> Mark Wieder wrote: > Now I only have to remember whether it's clockwise or the other one. > And that it doesn't start at the top - TopRightBottomLeft seems more > clockwise to me. Or at least more like a clock. And to the team that designed CSS. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ahsoftware at sonic.net Wed May 24 20:29:11 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 17:29:11 -0700 Subject: English Like? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <87118bac-40b7-4ae3-ea67-fd79cd49e6e0@sonic.net> On 05/24/2017 02:57 PM, Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode wrote: > Or you could remember that the > Rectangle of a control is a repetition > of two coordinates: xyxy > Left and Right are on X axis > Top and Bottom are on Y axis. Indeed - so it's like two points (x,y) , (x,y): leftTop, rightBottom. Except that it's topLeft and bottomRight. Not saying that it shouldn't be... it's just part of being "English-like". ...and I have to laugh at the dictionary's syntax for topLeft: "set the topLeft of object to left, top" -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From ahsoftware at sonic.net Wed May 24 20:31:50 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 17:31:50 -0700 Subject: English Like? In-Reply-To: <79c048c0-dca1-e8cd-8525-dc1cd63a9353@fourthworld.com> References: <298fe31f-d4ec-76e1-2dc4-fef69d5eb30a@sonic.net> <79c048c0-dca1-e8cd-8525-dc1cd63a9353@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <9b904bcd-2864-04b2-e7d0-1b8f8fb013d8@sonic.net> On 05/24/2017 03:38 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > Mark Wieder wrote: > > > Now I only have to remember whether it's clockwise or the other one. > > And that it doesn't start at the top - TopRightBottomLeft seems more > > clockwise to me. Or at least more like a clock. > > And to the team that designed CSS. > don't get me started on CSS inconsistencies... -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Wed May 24 20:53:11 2017 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 10:53:11 +1000 Subject: Writing Extensions In-Reply-To: References: <21c77d1f-670e-3e8c-7208-51423fc24188@sonic.net> <0daf672be301a7e1daf78c519a113e31@livecode.com> <00d46d75-336a-d312-4220-a0ce3c66acca@sonic.net> <320801ffe9a00bd55db908a5e63e9bc4@livecode.com> <9ccdba466c38c5609143cb874ca4ff08@livecode.com> Message-ID: And this is exactly why I love Switch, that I can use Case as an OR statement whilst using soft wrap \ (CR) for making the script more readable and understandable as the indenting is different. My specific situation is I have 99 objects that I need to test. Some are booleans, some integers, some date and times, some text. As you can appreciate the possible variations of combination is a very large number, but thankfully the outcomes fall nicely within a bell curve and the responses to many 'groups' of conditions is the same. This is where the discovery of Switch fall through was a godsend. So I write my Switch statement like this: switch --bell curve case 1 case ((myVar1 = myCondition1) AND (myVar2 < myCondition2) AND ... (myVar99 contains myCondition99)) myHandler1 break --bell curve case 2 case ((myVar1 = myCondition1) AND (myVar2 < myCondition2) AND ... (myVar99 contains myCondition99)) myHandler2 break case .... break default answer warning "A Case I have not considered." titled "Case Error" breakpoint end switch What this allows me to do is very quickly capture the middle of the bell curve of all the 'known' expected cases, but ALWAYS stop at the outliers - at which point I'll update the code as required. Unfortunately as a single line it's VERY difficult to figure out the difference between case 1 and 2 above because the actually difference is way off the page. So I can use soft line break \ (CR) and a little thought: switch --bell curve case 1 case ((myVar1 = myCondition1) AND (myVar2 < myCondition2) AND ... (myVar99 contains myCondition99) AND \ (myVar57 is true) AND (myVar82 is empty)) --the unique bits myHandler1 break --bell curve case 2 case ((myVar1 = myCondition1) AND (myVar2 < myCondition2) AND ... (myVar99 contains myCondition99) AND \ ((myVar33 <> 11) OR (myVar71 contains "uranium")) --the unique bits myHandler2 break case ... break default answer warning "A Case I have not considered." titled "Case Error" breakpoint end switch This then makes it very fast and easy to duplicate cases which are very similar and require the same action, by simple Copy and Paste and adjust the appropriate unique tests switch --bell curve case 1 case ((myVar1 = myCondition1) AND (myVar2 < myCondition2) AND ... (myVar99 contains myCondition99) AND \ (myVar57 is true) AND (myVar82 is empty)) --the unique bits --FALL THROUGH, an OR, many tests the same, needs to be handled as above --bell curve case 1a case ((myVar2 = myCondition2) AND (myVar3 < myCondition3) AND ... (myVar99 contains myCondition99) AND \ (myVar1 <> myCondition1) AND (myVar42 is an integer)) --the unique bits myHandler1 break --bell curve case 2 case ((myVar1 = myCondition1) AND (myVar2 < myCondition2) AND ... (myVar99 contains myCondition99) AND \ ((myVar33 <> 11) OR (myVar71 contains "uranium")) --the unique bits myHandler2 break case ... break default answer warning "A Case I have not considered." titled "Case Error" breakpoint end switch And the above is extremely simplistic compared to what I really have. What I've shown as (myVar1 = myCondition1) AND (myVar2 < myCondition2) in reality what appears within those bracketed AND statements are usually multi-conditional OR tests themselves, each one long enough to disappear off the screen before you get to the first AND! In one area of the code I have well over 100 case () which fall through, and each of those lines contains at least one soft wrap \ CR and sometimes more if it's the contents of blocks of text that is unique. To replace the fall through case () with a soft wrap OR \ which would then indent exactly the same as what I've already formatted using soft wraps.... it just makes my brain hurt thinking about trying to unravel the mess that would quickly become. I appreciate my situation is probably extremely unique, but given the opportunity to construct a new and improved Switch structure, if fall through is the problem then I'd make it clear that it is effectively an OR, by using it as a keyword in the structure. I would also include AND as a keyword even though 99.9% of the time it would seem pointless. But trust me, when you are dealing with billions of permutations, relying solely on soft wrap CRs \ is NOT VERY HELPFUL. Having a new CHOOSE structure that auto indented on WHEN, OR, AND and left you to use soft wrap \ CRs where you saw fit, I'm sure would help create better blocks of code that would be easier to understand. On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 11:11 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > I personally hate switch. That said, getting rid of the CR's would help > make the new "choose" easier to read. If you want a CR, use \ > > choose tValue > when 1 or 2 or 3 > -- do something > end choose > > choose tValue > when 1\ > or 2\ > or 3 > -- do something > end choose > > On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 9:03 AM, Kay C Lan via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 8:25 PM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode >> wrote: >> > >> Thanks Mark for the explanation. >> >> > choose tValue >> > when 1 >> > when 2 >> > when 3 >> > -- executes if tValue is 1, 2 or 3 >> > -- never falls through >> > >> > when 4 >> > -- never falls through >> > >> > default >> > end choose >> > >> > This caters for both cases (1) and (2) and is unambiguous. >> > >> Whilst I certainly like the above and think it an improvement, if I >> were to 'step back' and redesign Switch I think I'd make it clearer >> that 'fall through' is just an OR - it took me ages to realise and >> I've have very very long: case ((....) OR (....) OR (....) ....) which >> were extremely long and very hard to read until I rewrote them as >> >> case >> case >> case >> case >> ---do something >> break >> >> What I can't currently solve is the many case ((.....) AND (,,,,) AND >> (....) AND (...)... ) >> >> So, again if I were reinventing Switch: >> >> choose tVale >> when 1 >> or 2 >> or 3 >> --do something >> -- no further fall through >> when > 6 >> and < 60 >> and even >> --do something else >> --no further fall through >> when 4 >> --do another thing >> default >> --some other thing >> end choose >> >> Just makes it clear that fall through is being used to combine the >> statements, but in my design it isn't just restricted to OR. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Wed May 24 21:56:03 2017 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 21:56:03 -0400 Subject: English Like? In-Reply-To: <9b904bcd-2864-04b2-e7d0-1b8f8fb013d8@sonic.net> References: <298fe31f-d4ec-76e1-2dc4-fef69d5eb30a@sonic.net> <79c048c0-dca1-e8cd-8525-dc1cd63a9353@fourthworld.com> <9b904bcd-2864-04b2-e7d0-1b8f8fb013d8@sonic.net> Message-ID: so, @markwieder, are you not a fan of synonyms? On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 8:31 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On 05/24/2017 03:38 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > >> Mark Wieder wrote: >> >> > Now I only have to remember whether it's clockwise or the other one. >> > And that it doesn't start at the top - TopRightBottomLeft seems more >> > clockwise to me. Or at least more like a clock. >> >> And to the team that designed CSS. >> >> > don't get me started on CSS inconsistencies... > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Wed May 24 21:58:35 2017 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 21:58:35 -0400 Subject: Dropbox v1 API - one month until it is shut off! In-Reply-To: <7BEAFBC8-FA77-42A0-A36D-C3183C7DE5D9@appisle.net> References: <7BEAFBC8-FA77-42A0-A36D-C3183C7DE5D9@appisle.net> Message-ID: Mainly what I was trying to remind everyone was that they have to get their code changed, asap. On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 6:05 PM, Monte Goulding via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > We have a derivative of Gerard?s library in LC 9: > > https://github.com/livecode/livecode/blob/develop/ > extensions/script-libraries/dropbox/dropbox.livecodescript < > https://github.com/livecode/livecode/blob/develop/ > extensions/script-libraries/dropbox/dropbox.livecodescript> > > There is not much point maintaining mergDropbox if there are script > library alternatives available. > > Cheers > > Monte > > > On 25 May 2017, at 5:42 am, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > Reminder, everyone using dropbox, you have until the end of June to get > > your apps migrated to the v2 API before your dropbox functionality will > > cease. Rumor says that the Dropbox team is granting reprieves to people > > who ask for them, but I don't know if that's for everyone for every app. > > > > If you are using the phx_dropboxLib library, my advice is that you > download > > Gerard McCarthy's dropboxAPI_2 lib and get your code switched. If you > > don't already have it, I have it as a repo on github ( > > https://github.com/macMikey/dropboxapi_v2), both as a binary stack and > as a > > script-only stack, but it is available in a variety of places. > > > > If you are using mergDropbox, I just sent a reminder to Edinburgh that > > Monte has work to do, but I don't have an ETA. > > > > -- > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > and did a little diving. > > And God said, "This is good." > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Wed May 24 22:02:32 2017 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 22:02:32 -0400 Subject: Dropbox v1 API - one month until it is shut off! In-Reply-To: References: <7BEAFBC8-FA77-42A0-A36D-C3183C7DE5D9@appisle.net> Message-ID: and unless I'm missing it, it's not in 9, yet. I don't see it in dp6. On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 9:58 PM, Mike Kerner wrote: > Mainly what I was trying to remind everyone was that they have to get > their code changed, asap. > > On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 6:05 PM, Monte Goulding via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> We have a derivative of Gerard?s library in LC 9: >> >> https://github.com/livecode/livecode/blob/develop/extensions >> /script-libraries/dropbox/dropbox.livecodescript < >> https://github.com/livecode/livecode/blob/develop/extension >> s/script-libraries/dropbox/dropbox.livecodescript> >> >> There is not much point maintaining mergDropbox if there are script >> library alternatives available. >> >> Cheers >> >> Monte >> >> > On 25 May 2017, at 5:42 am, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> > >> > Reminder, everyone using dropbox, you have until the end of June to get >> > your apps migrated to the v2 API before your dropbox functionality will >> > cease. Rumor says that the Dropbox team is granting reprieves to people >> > who ask for them, but I don't know if that's for everyone for every app. >> > >> > If you are using the phx_dropboxLib library, my advice is that you >> download >> > Gerard McCarthy's dropboxAPI_2 lib and get your code switched. If you >> > don't already have it, I have it as a repo on github ( >> > https://github.com/macMikey/dropboxapi_v2), both as a binary stack and >> as a >> > script-only stack, but it is available in a variety of places. >> > >> > If you are using mergDropbox, I just sent a reminder to Edinburgh that >> > Monte has work to do, but I don't have an ETA. >> > >> > -- >> > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >> > On the second day, God created the oceans. >> > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >> > and did a little diving. >> > And God said, "This is good." >> > _______________________________________________ >> > use-livecode mailing list >> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Wed May 24 22:03:55 2017 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 22:03:55 -0400 Subject: Is there any way at all to have a mobile app simply resume rather than restart? In-Reply-To: <376308F6-EA5E-4CF0-913F-22BDE426F00D@gmail.com> References: <9AF7F586-BD6F-45E2-8167-FB62A876B5EB@gmail.com> <00b301d2d4d3$2e274840$8a75d8c0$@net> <376308F6-EA5E-4CF0-913F-22BDE426F00D@gmail.com> Message-ID: I'm pretty sure you can't do it while it's still in the applications folder. You have to command-drag it out of the applications folder, first, before you modify it - at least I do, anyway. On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 5:57 PM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > This is great Ralph > > Thank you > > I wonder if this can open up other possibilities as well > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On May 24, 2017, at 5:17 PM, Ralph DiMola > wrote: > > > > 1) Go to the Applications folder > > 2) Right click on the LC app you are using and select "Show Package > > Contents" > > 3) Navigate to the "Tools/Runtime/iOS" folder > > 4) Right click on all the device/simulator folders one at a time and > select > > "Get Info" > > 5) At the bottom click on the "Read only" to the right of your account > name > > and select "Read & Write" > > 6) Repeat 5 for all device/simulator folders > > 7) In each of the device/simulator folders edit the setting.plist file. > > 8) To edit... right click the setting.plist file and select "Open With" > and > > then "Other..." and select "TextEdit.app". > > 9) You will get a warning that the file is locked. Choose the Unlock > option. > > > > 10) Either change UIApplicationExitsOnSuspend key value to "False" or > like I > > do delete the key all together(2 lines) > > 11) repeat 8-10 for setting.plist in each of the device/simulator > folders. > > 12) Fire up LC and make an iOS app. > > > > Ralph DiMola > > IT Director > > Evergreen Information Services > > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On > Behalf > > Of Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode > > Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 4:37 PM > > To: How to use LiveCode > > Cc: jonathandlynch at gmail.com > > Subject: Re: Is there any way at all to have a mobile app simply resume > > rather than restart? > > > > I don't actually know how to do any of the steps for this - would be > easy on > > a pc. Researching it now. > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > >> On May 24, 2017, at 4:27 PM, jonathandlynch at gmail.com wrote: > >> > >> I read that on the forums, but I defer to Ralph on this. > >> > >> I am playing with the hack now. > >> > >> I think I could also have a legitimate reason for playing audio - > changing > > the music as a user gets closer to a marker - but that would be a lot of > > trouble to set up right now. > >> > >> Sent from my iPhone > >> > >>> On May 24, 2017, at 4:07 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode > > wrote: > >>> > >>> Are you sure? I'm pretty sure I have at least a couple of apps I > >>> built in > >>> 8 that still use the hack. > >>> > >>> On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 3:54 PM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode < > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >>> > >>>> It looks like the plist hack is not available in version 8. > >>>> > >>>> Choosing background audio works - but that means I need to have a > >>>> plausible reason for having background audio or Apple reviewers > >>>> might ding the app. > >>>> > >>>> What a pain - why not just allow it to work the way other apps work? > >>>> > >>>> Sent from my iPhone > >>>> > >>>>> On May 24, 2017, at 3:43 PM, jonathandlynch at gmail.com wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> Thank you! > >>>>> > >>>>> Sent from my iPhone > >>>>> > >>>>>> On May 24, 2017, at 3:34 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < > >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> If you're referring to ios, look up "plist hack", here. The only > >>>>>> thing > >>>> to > >>>>>> remember is that for each version of LC, you have to perform the > >>>>>> hack, again, until Edinburgh gives us a Standalone Settings option. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 3:22 PM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode < > >>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> Having to restart the app from scratch sucks. I can store the > >>>>>>> current state, but my users would have to wait for the map widget > >>>>>>> to reload > >>>> every > >>>>>>> time they came back from another app. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list > >>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >>>>>>> subscription preferences: > >>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -- > >>>>>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the > >>>>>> second day, God created the oceans. > >>>>>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and > >>>>>> did a little diving. > >>>>>> And God said, "This is good." > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> use-livecode mailing list > >>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >>>> subscription preferences: > >>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> use-livecode mailing list > >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >>>> subscription preferences: > >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second > >>> day, God created the oceans. > >>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and > >>> did a little diving. > >>> And God said, "This is good." > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> use-livecode mailing list > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription > > preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From james at thehales.id.au Wed May 24 22:21:33 2017 From: james at thehales.id.au (James Hale) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 12:21:33 +1000 Subject: Printed dictionary (was Re: send mouseup to control) Message-ID: In following them discussion on execution contexts Richard wrote: > The executionContexts is documented, though in all fairness that Dict > entry includes a note about not relying on the format of its contents. Normally I would moan to myself about how I would like to look that up but as I am reading this email (and nearly all others) on my iPad I cannot use the online dictionary as it can't handle a touch interface (the mothership is aware that they do have a non mobile friendly resource for a mobile capable product). But this morning the printed dictionary arrived! ? So I looked up executionContexts Where I read... '' A common use of the executionContexts is to obtain the name of the object and handler that called the current handler, this information is available as line -2 of the executionContexts." BTW there was no mention of any caveats in using this property. James From james at thehales.id.au Wed May 24 22:26:59 2017 From: james at thehales.id.au (James Hale) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 12:26:59 +1000 Subject: Porridge (was Re: English Like?) Message-ID: Richard wrote: > For those who like salt in their porridge there's LiveCode, and for > those who prefer sugar, or syrup, or prunes in their porridge > there are other puddings on offer. I actually like both. Couldn't imagine not putting salt in the porridge. Then once it is cooked, add sugar and usually sultanas (occasionally a banana.) Of course I am speaking of rolled oat porridge and made using full cream milk. (Yes, I like it rich, creamy and sweet.) Delicious From waprothero at gmail.com Wed May 24 23:24:03 2017 From: waprothero at gmail.com (William Prothero) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 20:24:03 -0700 Subject: Sql problem In-Reply-To: References: <9694FB26-B521-4423-99D2-4831BDF91634@gmail.com> <76703D9C-5F0A-43DF-ACD2-41686F7F7502@gmail.com> Message-ID: Folks: Thanks for the comments. I bet the linefeeds caused me the problem, since I just took the contents of a text field, put them in an array, and didn?t pay attention to linefeeds. Now I remember why I didn?t try to directly connect to the dB. The security issue makes it inadvisable to go direct. It would be nice if there was a cautionary statement about that in the dictionary. Best, Bill > On May 23, 2017, at 6:22 PM, Roger Eller via use-livecode wrote: > > I have always replaced the linefeeds with a unique placeholder for > transport, and switched it back to linefeeds in the server script. I > didn't even consider replacing with empty. > > On May 23, 2017 8:55 PM, "Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode" < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> One quick note about base64encode: >> >> LC adds linefeeds. After you base64encode, you may need to replace >> linefeed with empty in the variable. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On May 23, 2017, at 8:10 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> >>> Andre, >>> This is good advice. I did it this way as a shortcut for an app I?ve >> built for myself only. You are right that it makes debugging harder because >> I can?t use other management applications to examine the contents. >>> >>> For many years now I?ve used php cgi?s to connect to the remote mysql db >> and it works well. I just haven?t spent the time to set up JSON. >>> >>> But it looks like I could dispense with the php and directly access the >> mySQL db from my mobile app, without a cgi? >>> >>> Best, >>> Bill >>> >>>> On May 23, 2017, at 3:30 PM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> William, >>>> >>>> If I may add a bit of personal opinion here... so, I have been using and >>>> storing LC stuff in databases for a long time. Not only I have been >> storing >>>> arrays in database but I had them flying over TCP sockets and being >>>> decoded/encoded as needed. For a long time I used the same approach as >> you, >>>> which is to arrayEncode + base64 the array. >>>> >>>> I don't do that any longer. That combination is very hard to debug. I >> would >>>> advise you simply to use JSON and store it as JSON on the db. Instead of >>>> encoding the array twice, you do it only once with jsonexport() and then >>>> when importing, you do it only once with jsonimport() >>>> >>>> Not only that reduces complexity but it also makes it a lot easier to >>>> debug. As a bonus, your data can be consumed by other applications which >>>> are not based on LC which may open a whole ecosystem of plugins and >>>> interoperation to your product. >>>> >>>> Cheers >>>> andre >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 9:45 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode < >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Never mind. I got it working. I?m not exactly sure about the problem >>>>> because the method I used should have been quite general. However, what >>>>> made it work is that I had the contents of a list field in the array I >> was >>>>> storing and that somehow caused an error when I tried to decode the >> array. >>>>> I deleted that array key, because there was no reason I needed to have >> it >>>>> in the db anyway, and it worked. >>>>> >>>>> I?ll look into why and report back if I find anything interesting. >>>>> Best, >>>>> Bill >>>>> >>>>>> On May 21, 2017, at 5:23 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode < >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Whoops, I lied. >>>>>> The data is stored incorrectly in the simulator too. >>>>>> Hmm?. >>>>>> The IDE stores it correctly. There is something in the encoding that >> I?m >>>>> missing. >>>>>> Bill >>>>>> >>>>>>> On May 21, 2017, at 5:03 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode < >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Folks: >>>>>>> I have an app that stores data to a mysql database on my server. It >>>>> works fine in the IDE and in the iPhone simulator. However, when I >> load the >>>>> app onto the iPhone, the saved data is corrupted. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I am saving an array. The array is saved in a big string that has >> been >>>>> base64 encoded. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> When saving, I do: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> put arrayEncode(tArray) into tData >>>>>>> >>>>>>> put base64encode(tData) into xData >>>>>>> >>>>>>> put urlEncode(xData) into xData >>>>>>> >>>>>>> xData is sent to the db >>>>>>> >>>>>>> When I read back the data, I do the inverse: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> urlDecode >>>>>>> base64Decode >>>>>>> arrayDecode >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The base64 data on the db is different when I store it from the >> iPhone. >>>>> I can see this with Navicat, which I use for db management. So, the >> problem >>>>> is in the storing of the data. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What the heck? I am just using a post command to a php script that >>>>> writes to the db. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Why would the iPhone data that is sent be different from that sent in >>>>> the simulator? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Mac OSX 10.12.4, Livecode 8.1.4 (rc2) and XCode 8.3. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Any suggestions would be welcome. >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> Bill P. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> William A. Prothero >>>>>>> http://earthlearningsolution.org/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> http://www.andregarzia.com -- All We Do Is Code. >>>> http://fon.nu -- minimalist url shortening service. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jerry at jhjensen.com Wed May 24 23:41:16 2017 From: jerry at jhjensen.com (Jerry Jensen) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 20:41:16 -0700 Subject: English Like? In-Reply-To: <298fe31f-d4ec-76e1-2dc4-fef69d5eb30a@sonic.net> References: <87287AF1-9463-42DB-B866-3277490A100F@gmail.com> <1495638713434-4715152.post@n4.nabble.com> <28e1ced5-5736-7ed5-b0e5-ab8a0b0aa67e@sonic.net> <9a229069-7873-5c49-a22a-664b0ba3a345@sonic.net> <298fe31f-d4ec-76e1-2dc4-fef69d5eb30a@sonic.net> Message-ID: On May 24, 2017, at 2:30 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > > On 05/24/2017 01:41 PM, Scott Rossi via use-livecode wrote: >> @Mark ? the sequence/direction is clockwise, if that helps. So top -> left? doesn?t work. > > That does, in a way. > Now I only have to remember whether it's clockwise or the other one. > And that it doesn't start at the top - TopRightBottomLeft seems more clockwise to me. Or at least more like a clock. Or just remember TL;DR but D stands for bottom. Reminiscent of: ?Name?s Pither - just like brotherhood but pi instead of bro and without the hood part? -Michael Palin From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu May 25 00:18:50 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 23:18:50 -0500 Subject: English Like? In-Reply-To: References: <87287AF1-9463-42DB-B866-3277490A100F@gmail.com> <1495638713434-4715152.post@n4.nabble.com> <28e1ced5-5736-7ed5-b0e5-ab8a0b0aa67e@sonic.net> <9a229069-7873-5c49-a22a-664b0ba3a345@sonic.net> <298fe31f-d4ec-76e1-2dc4-fef69d5eb30a@sonic.net> Message-ID: <15c3dd41c10.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> > Now I only have to remember whether it's clockwise or the other one. Use a mnemonic like "all cows eat grass" and "good boys do fine always": Little Tykes Read Books Lethal Tornadoes Ruin Buildings Lowly Tadpoles Release Bubbles Loose Tops Reveal Boo... er, Bosoms I suspect 48% of readers will remember one of those over the others. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From ahsoftware at sonic.net Thu May 25 01:46:45 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 22:46:45 -0700 Subject: English Like? In-Reply-To: <15c3dd41c10.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <87287AF1-9463-42DB-B866-3277490A100F@gmail.com> <1495638713434-4715152.post@n4.nabble.com> <28e1ced5-5736-7ed5-b0e5-ab8a0b0aa67e@sonic.net> <9a229069-7873-5c49-a22a-664b0ba3a345@sonic.net> <298fe31f-d4ec-76e1-2dc4-fef69d5eb30a@sonic.net> <15c3dd41c10.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: On 05/24/2017 09:18 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > I suspect 48% of readers will remember one of those over the others. ...wait... there was more than one? -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From ahsoftware at sonic.net Thu May 25 01:50:24 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 22:50:24 -0700 Subject: English Like? In-Reply-To: References: <298fe31f-d4ec-76e1-2dc4-fef69d5eb30a@sonic.net> <79c048c0-dca1-e8cd-8525-dc1cd63a9353@fourthworld.com> <9b904bcd-2864-04b2-e7d0-1b8f8fb013d8@sonic.net> Message-ID: <6eff7666-26ca-9184-fad3-27a7fce1291e@sonic.net> On 05/24/2017 06:56 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > so, @markwieder, are you not a fan of synonyms? Eh? No, very much am. Just usually get my hand slapped when I suggest that to the team. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From mark at livecode.com Thu May 25 04:01:04 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 10:01:04 +0200 Subject: English =?UTF-8?Q?Like=3F?= In-Reply-To: <4186cfb7-ccf9-865f-9804-9591671ac45a@sonic.net> References: <87287AF1-9463-42DB-B866-3277490A100F@gmail.com> <4951116382f04e0e0322184f38703a00@livecode.com> <1495633525807-4715143.post@n4.nabble.com> <4186cfb7-ccf9-865f-9804-9591671ac45a@sonic.net> Message-ID: <62c68ceedc712cd64ab97cf7293884e7@livecode.com> On 2017-05-24 19:14, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > On 05/24/2017 08:03 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: > >> Anyway, I shall now get off my (small?) soap-box. Again this is a >> discussion, there are lots of reasons why people don't choose LiveCode >> and we try our very best to determine them, and deal with them. There >> are certainly easier ones to tackle than adding a new 'syntax style' >> and of course we intend to address those first... > > I just want to say that in spite of all the verbiage that showed up > overnight, this has been a most enjoyable thread to wake up to. Heh - the verbiage being mostly my fault ;) It is amazing how your mind can wander whilst staring at a terminal watching build instructions fly by! Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mark at livecode.com Thu May 25 04:10:57 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 10:10:57 +0200 Subject: English =?UTF-8?Q?Like=3F?= In-Reply-To: <107595c6-0535-caa1-6361-470d9fe2dc74@sonic.net> References: <87287AF1-9463-42DB-B866-3277490A100F@gmail.com> <4951116382f04e0e0322184f38703a00@livecode.com> <1495633525807-4715143.post@n4.nabble.com> <107595c6-0535-caa1-6361-470d9fe2dc74@sonic.net> Message-ID: <21726b13d2144453d408b59439b23da7@livecode.com> On 2017-05-24 23:47, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > On 05/24/2017 08:03 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: > >> Syntax is an emotive issue (I could beat Python to death with some of >> the decisions they have made about syntax - but yet I still use it and >> slightly enjoy doing so for the purposes I use it for) - but it is not >> the be-all-and-end-all. > > I could say the same for any of the computer languages I use. Very true. Of course, the thing here is that (in general) we have more control over the grammar and semantics of *programming languages* with constraints of course... In a new language, we have complete control so (in theory) it should be possible to be unambiguous, consistent and intuitive as far as is possible... Assuming that one has 100% foresight and knows everything at the point of design. Failing that, one just does not add features until one is sure that they 'correct' (for some definition of 'correct') cf: switch in LCB. In an existing language, we have significant constraints with regards backwards-compatibility and consistency to what is already there. In many cases, inconsistencies or un-intuitive is actually what you might call 'a lack of abstraction of a pattern' - an idea has been implemented for specific cases, but is actually an instance of a more general abstraction underneath. Of course in other cases, they come about because the remit of things that were considered when they were added was not wide enough and friction develops between what you have at the point of implementation, and what occurs to you later down the line (in some cases, many many years down the line). The former generally allows things to evolve in a backwards-compatible way, but the latter it is a great deal harder - however that's where some sort of 'language versioning' mechanism (e.g. scriptVersion) can help. Of course you need the infrastructure for the latter to be able to make progress on those fronts - something we don't *yet* have in LCS. > And not just computer languages- the various forms of the irregular > verbs for instance... > > Old English am had two plural forms: 1. sind/sindon, sie and 2. > earon/aron. The s- form (also used in the subjunctive) fell from > English in the early 13c. (though its cousin continues in German sind, > the 3rd person plural of "to be") and was replaced by forms of be, but > aron (see are) continued, and as am and be merged it encroached on > some uses that previously had belonged to be. By the early 1500s it > had established its place in standard English. Hehe - I think I understand English's irregular verbs better now :) Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From panos.merakos at livecode.com Thu May 25 04:54:12 2017 From: panos.merakos at livecode.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 09:54:12 +0100 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 83 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Alejandro, Ali Lloyd is the LiveCode Technical Project Manager now. Best, Panos -- On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 10:26 PM, Alejandro Tejada via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > This Week in LiveCode Newsletter wrote: > > > Peter Brett has sadly left us for pastures new, > > we wish him all the best in his new post and > > he will of course be missed. Our thanks for > > his sterling contribution to advancing LiveCode > > over the last few years. > > I visited Peter's blog looking for more info: > http://blog.peter-b.co.uk/ > but found nothing about this job's change. > Now, Who is the new LiveCode > Technical Project Manager? > > Welcome to Alex Brisan and Chris Colman. > I hope that both find time to participate in > the forums and mail list and meet the > wonderful community of people from > this development platform. > > Al > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Panagiotis Merakos LiveCode Software Developer Everyone Can Create Apps From mark at livecode.com Thu May 25 04:57:32 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 10:57:32 +0200 Subject: English =?UTF-8?Q?Like=3F?= In-Reply-To: <28e1ced5-5736-7ed5-b0e5-ab8a0b0aa67e@sonic.net> References: <87287AF1-9463-42DB-B866-3277490A100F@gmail.com> <1495638713434-4715152.post@n4.nabble.com> <28e1ced5-5736-7ed5-b0e5-ab8a0b0aa67e@sonic.net> Message-ID: <2c2c6f17c4b8db5c37a8faaef9ee2699@livecode.com> On 2017-05-24 19:27, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > On 05/24/2017 08:11 AM, Martin Koob via use-livecode wrote: >> I agree that LiveCode script should become more English like as time >> goes on >> not only with english words but also with more natural(or intuitive) >> grammar. >> >>> From your examples I think it would be more natural to type. >> >> put the third index of tNumericArray into tFoo > > The one that's always bugged me is > > put item 2 of the rect of someObject into tVar > > Rects have a defined order of items, and I can never remember whether > it's "left,top..." or "top,left..." and I end up looking it up every > time. I'd love to have a more normal (all right, English-like... > there... I've said it) way to remember and write this. This is a very interesting example on two levels... The first is in regards to 'English-like'-ness. In English we uniformly use 'top left' to describe, well, the 'top left' point of something. However, mathematical convention means that points are always 'across then down' - i.e. x, y. The English phrase for this concept is 'top left' because there is a rule in English about the order of adjectives - interestingly if you get the order wrong, it just *sounds* wrong (e.g. mad old women vs old mad women). Of course, for non-native English speakers (as Tiemo pointed out a few days ago) it probably makes no sense at all *unless* you remember that rather odd English rule about adjective order. [ Indeed, I suspect other languages also have a similar rule, but I don't recall ever being taught such a thing in French, German, Latin or Ancient Greek (which could be a facet of time admittedly - it being 20 yrs since I studied them), but perhaps it is just something which we 'pick up' through repetition until it gets embedded in deep parts of our brains. ] So we do have the (syntactically) rather (apparantly) inconsistent and unintuitive: set the topLeft of button 1 to tLeft, tTop However, conceptually it is 'correct' - topLeft is the correct way to express the concept *in English* and tLeft,tTop is how the concept is expressed in geometry. If we were to use leftTop instead, it would be consistent with the 'syntax' (if you like) of the underlying concept, but inconsistent with the 'syntax' for it in English. End result: there is friction between the abstract concept (a point is x,y) and how it is expressed in language (English mandates top-left). Now, I'm not sure this is 'fixable' in a way which would be 'better' for everybody, however, the name of the concept (topLeft) used in LiveCode is perhaps not the real problem... The problem comes (as Mark rightly points out) when you try and *manipulate* the thing you get when you ask for the rect, or the topLeft... You have to do: put item 1 of tRect into tLeft put item 2 of tRect into tTop put item 1 to 2 of tRect into tTopLeft Here we have what you might call 'magic constants' (1 and 2) - you have to *know* what those constants are, and use them explicitly to get the right thing (Alex pointed out in this thread that you could just define constants and/or globals for them - which works, but isn't exactly intuitive unless you know to do that). A much more intuitive way to do this would be to be able to do: put the left of tRect into tLeft put the top of tRect into tTop put the topLeft of tRect into tTopLeft Of course the issue here is that (in LiveCode) points and rectangles (and colors) are just strings - there is no extra information there. So when the engine tries to evaluate: the left of tRect All it has to work with is the content of tRect which is a string of four comma separated numbers - but a string of four comma separated numbers could be a variety of things and not necessarily a rect. One suggestion which immediately comes to mind is - oh we could just add some extra invisible 'meta' information to 'the thing returned by the rect property' marking string as a StringyRectangle so the engine *knows* it is a rectangle. However, that doesn't work because that meta information would be immediately lost if you concatenate your rect onto another string: repeat for with i = 1 to the number of controls put the rect of control i & return after tControlRectList end repeat Something which is done all the time in LiveCode. Furthermore, if the string came from somewhere which is not a rect property, then it wouldn't have it either - e.g. the rect is a substring of a text file from an external source. However, what we could potentially exploit is the syntax of the thing in the string. At the moment when you do: the something of tString The engine interprets this as a property get on an object - it converts tString to an object reference (internally) and then gets the property 'something'. The syntax of an object reference is fixed. e.g. control 3 field 2 of card 4 button "moomin" of card "moominland" It also happens to be completely disjoint from the 'syntax' of a rect string which is: ,,, And a point string which is: , Now, we can consider every piece of syntax we use to be a mapping from the syntax to a function call. In this case: 'the' PROPERTY 'of' EXPR Maps to: MCObjectGetProperty(ResolveObject(Expr), PROPERTY) If Expr is not an object reference string (i.e. in the form we know and love), then it is an error - you can't convert '10,20' to an object reference. What you *can* do is 'generalize' how the 'property get' syntax binds. Indeed, we have *three* methods we would like it to bind to: MCPointGetProperty(POINT, PROPERTY) MCRectangleGetProperty(RECTANGLE, PROPERTY) MCObjectGetProperty(OBJECT, PROPERTY) The difference here is the 'type' of the thing we are getting a property from. As I said above, as luck would have it, the syntax (as a string) for object references, rectangles and points are disjoint... I can write an unambiguous function: MCParseTargetString(STRING) returns (POINT or RECTANGLE or OBJECT) So execution of: the prop of string Would do: put MCParseTargetString(string) into tThing switch typeof(tThing) case POINT: MCPointGetProperty(tThing, prop) case RECTANGLE: MCPointGetProperty(tThing, prop) case OBJECT: MCObjectGetProperty(tThing, prop) end switch Moreover we can play this game with any 'type formatted as string' as long as the syntax for each of the kinds of string we might want to deal with are disjoint. TL;DR version: It looks like that we could have: put the left of the rect of tObject put the x of the topLeft of the rect of tObject ... In a way which cleaves into the LCS as it is now with no friction or backwards-compatibility concerns - a natural extension of how things work now. Warmest Regards, Mark. P.S. We can actually go slightly further - for any 'type' in LiveCode (e.g. point, rectangle, color) which is expressed as a sequence of comma separated things; as long as the names of the sub-parts (i.e. point has x,y, rectangle has left;top;right;bottom;topLeft;topRight;bottomLeft;bottomRight, color has red;green;blue;alpha) are disjoint the idea works. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From lists at mangomultimedia.com Thu May 25 05:02:37 2017 From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 04:02:37 -0500 Subject: Sql problem In-Reply-To: <81568C16-573A-453E-BF08-ADCB4B305454@iotecdigital.com> References: <9694FB26-B521-4423-99D2-4831BDF91634@gmail.com> <81568C16-573A-453E-BF08-ADCB4B305454@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: I always thought it would be nice to have a different type of connector in SQL Yoga that would interface with a web API. I never had a project where I needed to actually flesh out the idea to see if it was practical. -- Trevor DeVore ScreenSteps www.screensteps.com On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 12:05 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > My problem with that is that I use sqlYoga in a fairly complex app. How > would I incorporate sqlYoga calls with a web interface and still retrieve > the data in the same format as I currently have? If I cannot do that, then > the burden of refactoring the entire application would be considerable. > > Bob S > > > > On May 23, 2017, at 17:53 , Andre Garzia via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > William, > > > > You could but it is not a good security practice to expose a mysql > database > > to the larger internet. The internet is very hostile and keeping your > mysql > > server safe would be a job on its own. Best you use your php cgi or > > anything else to put a wall between your database and the net. > > > > Never, ever, expose a database server. Thats a golden rule. Now, if > you're > > building something that is for internal use on a LAN, business network, > > intranet, then the rules are different, even though, even in this case, I > > would put something in front of the database if it was up to me to make > > such decision. > > > > Cheers > > andre > > > > > > -- > > http://www.andregarzia.com -- All We Do Is Code. > > http://fon.nu -- minimalist url shortening service. > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From mark at livecode.com Thu May 25 05:38:19 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 11:38:19 +0200 Subject: WannaCry [OT] In-Reply-To: <27721081-093A-4594-9FA9-A65AF5861DD4@iotecdigital.com> References: <84dd251e-4a61-3555-923d-fdeb0765d74d@fourthworld.com> <5df11c345af3bd65b76508a3b25d74bc@livecode.com> <27721081-093A-4594-9FA9-A65AF5861DD4@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <8a2f3e6c65d0e972dbe378153183f442@livecode.com> On 2017-05-19 18:02, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > I don't think it's a matter of programming standards. The methods used > to exploit systems are almost always something you could never have > guessed. Flaws in code can be extremeny difficult to see, as was the > case in the SSL Heartbleed bug. None of the devs saw the bug when it > was approved for merging. Seeing what it was and what it ought to have > been would be like seeing a needle in a haystack. I have thought for > some time that it is the nature of digital information and our human > minds incapacity to comprehend it in its real form that makes it > nearly impossible to produce "unhackable" code. I'm not sure this is correct - and it is important that we don't 'lull ourselves into a false sense of security' by assuming that 'oh we could never have guessed that'. The reality is that whilst exploiting a vulnerability in general is REALLY HARD (seriously, when I say REALLY HARD, I mean REALLY REALLY REALLY HARD and this is why you only tend to see exploits in things which have a very large reward for making that exploit - hackers have to consider ROI too!) - all they need is a vulnerability in the first place. Eliminate the chance for vulnerabilities and you eliminate the possibility of exploits. Of course complete elimination is the ideal, but generally if you minimise the chance of introducing a vulnerability to the absolute minimum and you hugely reduce the chance of an exploit appearing (because finding vulnerabilities to exploit becomes much much harder). Simplifying matters a bit, you can pretty much divide vulnerabilities into two classes: 1) vulnerabilities introduced because of how something is written 2) vulnerabilities introduced because of how something is done The latter class (2), I will concede are much harder to spot. So called 'information leakage' is a good example of (2) - this is where the method you use to do something causes 'secrets' to leak into an accessible channel. The thing is that such leakage can be caused by stuff the processor does (unreset registers in a call to a critical function, sideline data accessible due to the way HyperThreads are implemented in processor cores etc.). This is of critical concern in security stacks (such as SSL and strong encryption implementations) and is why the universal advice given is: never implement such things yourself - use a library which has the involvement of cryptography and security experts or employ such a person to do it for you. The former class (1) essentially all boil down to mistakes in coding which mean that a suitably motivated hacker can use the mistake to execute arbitrary code which they have written - one of the biggest classes of these is 'buffer overruns': int main(int argc, char *argv[]) { if (argc != 2) return 0; char t_buffer[32]; sprintf(t_buffer, "Argument 1: %s", argv[1]); fprintf(stderr, "%s\n", t_buffer) } Here I have a chance of being able to construct a string passed as a command line argument to my program which could execute arbitrary code encoded in the string I passed in - because I am potentially able to overwrite the stack at critical points to execute something that was not intended. Another class of (1) is failure to sanitize inputs: int main(int argc, char *argv[]) { if (argc != 2) return 0; char t_buffer[1024]; snprintf(t_buffer, sizeof(t_buffer), "DELETE %s FROM MyImportantDatabase", argv[1]); RunSQL(t_buffer); // Mythical call for illustration only } Here I've constructed an SQL query by inserting an unescaped string directly into an SQL statement that I execute. With this I can do anything to the database I like - just by using ';'. I'd put my neck out and say that all vulnerabilities in case (1) can be prevented by strict programming standards and review (or better) using a language which doesn't let you make those kinds of mistakes in the first place. So, in short, I'd perhaps suggest that all exploits we see are caused by one of two things: (1) Using tools which are too low-level for the job at hand, or people using tools which they are not experienced enough to use fully and absolutely correctly. (2) Writing code to do a task when you do not have enough domain-specific knowledge to do it correctly. Just my two pence :) Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From thatkeith at mac.com Thu May 25 05:54:58 2017 From: thatkeith at mac.com (Keith Martin) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 10:54:58 +0100 Subject: English Like? In-Reply-To: <603B28D5-80C5-4FE6-991F-4CAAB6261D8B@earthlearningsolutions.org> References: <87287AF1-9463-42DB-B866-3277490A100F@gmail.com> <4951116382f04e0e0322184f38703a00@livecode.com> <1495633525807-4715143.post@n4.nabble.com> <603B28D5-80C5-4FE6-991F-4CAAB6261D8B@earthlearningsolutions.org> Message-ID: On 24 May 2017, at 16:19, prothero--- via use-livecode wrote: > Or conversely, would people new to coding find htalk easy and > intuitive? These are two different questions and a rigorous answer > will most likely not come from knowledgeable livecode programmers. Speaking as a university lecturer who teaches LC to graphic design students from time to time, I can absolutely attest to the benefits of the 'English-like' qualities of xTalk. They get it, they can work things out, they can use it to create *their own* basic tools and toys, and this after just one afternoon. It's imperfect... but hell, even *English* could be described as being just English-*like* if you want to go down that debating rabbit hole! The point is it's *so* much easier than traditional languages for people to grok. That's one of LC's USPs. k --- Keith Martin Senior Lecturer, LCC (University of the Arts London) President, http://IVRPA.org http://PanoramaPhotographer.com http://thatkeith.com +44 (0)7909541365 --- From iphonelagi at gmail.com Thu May 25 06:13:14 2017 From: iphonelagi at gmail.com (Lagi Pittas) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 11:13:14 +0100 Subject: English Like? In-Reply-To: <21726b13d2144453d408b59439b23da7@livecode.com> References: <87287AF1-9463-42DB-B866-3277490A100F@gmail.com> <4951116382f04e0e0322184f38703a00@livecode.com> <1495633525807-4715143.post@n4.nabble.com> <107595c6-0535-caa1-6361-470d9fe2dc74@sonic.net> <21726b13d2144453d408b59439b23da7@livecode.com> Message-ID: Hi You might want to watch this 1 hour ish video by Bret Victor as you are compiling. I've seen a good few of his talks over the years and read a lot of his stuff. If you think it's too long just got to either 2:30 or 10:30 (that one is mind blowing) but I'd suggest you listen to the whole lecture. This is the Ultimate IDE but his ideas about programming also cover what Mark W. was saying about not being able to remember the order of parameters. That was in a different talk or on his website - i'll try and dig it out. Comments? Regards Lagi On 25 May 2017 at 09:10, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On 2017-05-24 23:47, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > >> On 05/24/2017 08:03 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Syntax is an emotive issue (I could beat Python to death with some of the >>> decisions they have made about syntax - but yet I still use it and slightly >>> enjoy doing so for the purposes I use it for) - but it is not the >>> be-all-and-end-all. >>> >> >> I could say the same for any of the computer languages I use. >> > > Very true. > > Of course, the thing here is that (in general) we have more control over > the grammar and semantics of *programming languages* with constraints of > course... > > In a new language, we have complete control so (in theory) it should be > possible to be unambiguous, consistent and intuitive as far as is > possible... Assuming that one has 100% foresight and knows everything at > the point of design. Failing that, one just does not add features until one > is sure that they 'correct' (for some definition of 'correct') cf: switch > in LCB. > > In an existing language, we have significant constraints with regards > backwards-compatibility and consistency to what is already there. In many > cases, inconsistencies or un-intuitive is actually what you might call 'a > lack of abstraction of a pattern' - an idea has been implemented for > specific cases, but is actually an instance of a more general abstraction > underneath. Of course in other cases, they come about because the remit of > things that were considered when they were added was not wide enough and > friction develops between what you have at the point of implementation, and > what occurs to you later down the line (in some cases, many many years down > the line). > > The former generally allows things to evolve in a backwards-compatible > way, but the latter it is a great deal harder - however that's where some > sort of 'language versioning' mechanism (e.g. scriptVersion) can help. Of > course you need the infrastructure for the latter to be able to make > progress on those fronts - something we don't *yet* have in LCS. > > And not just computer languages- the various forms of the irregular >> verbs for instance... >> >> Old English am had two plural forms: 1. sind/sindon, sie and 2. >> earon/aron. The s- form (also used in the subjunctive) fell from >> English in the early 13c. (though its cousin continues in German sind, >> the 3rd person plural of "to be") and was replaced by forms of be, but >> aron (see are) continued, and as am and be merged it encroached on >> some uses that previously had belonged to be. By the early 1500s it >> had established its place in standard English. >> > > Hehe - I think I understand English's irregular verbs better now :) > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > > -- > Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ > LiveCode: Everyone can create apps > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Thu May 25 07:33:21 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 14:33:21 +0300 Subject: English Like? In-Reply-To: References: <87287AF1-9463-42DB-B866-3277490A100F@gmail.com> <4951116382f04e0e0322184f38703a00@livecode.com> <1495633525807-4715143.post@n4.nabble.com> <107595c6-0535-caa1-6361-470d9fe2dc74@sonic.net> <21726b13d2144453d408b59439b23da7@livecode.com> Message-ID: <2ff3dc66-299e-b406-c77a-38394bafb4d3@gmail.com> Can you post the URL to that video, please? Richmond. On 5/25/17 1:13 pm, Lagi Pittas via use-livecode wrote: > Hi > > You might want to watch this 1 hour ish video by Bret Victor as you are > compiling. > I've seen a good few of his talks over the years and read a lot of his > stuff. > > If you think it's too long just got to either 2:30 or 10:30 (that one is > mind blowing) but I'd suggest you listen to the whole lecture. > This is the Ultimate IDE but his ideas about programming also cover what > Mark W. was saying about not being able to remember the order of > parameters. That was in a different talk or on his website - i'll try and > dig it out. > > Comments? > > Regards Lagi > > On 25 May 2017 at 09:10, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> On 2017-05-24 23:47, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: >> >>> On 05/24/2017 08:03 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> Syntax is an emotive issue (I could beat Python to death with some of the >>>> decisions they have made about syntax - but yet I still use it and slightly >>>> enjoy doing so for the purposes I use it for) - but it is not the >>>> be-all-and-end-all. >>>> >>> I could say the same for any of the computer languages I use. >>> >> Very true. >> >> Of course, the thing here is that (in general) we have more control over >> the grammar and semantics of *programming languages* with constraints of >> course... >> >> In a new language, we have complete control so (in theory) it should be >> possible to be unambiguous, consistent and intuitive as far as is >> possible... Assuming that one has 100% foresight and knows everything at >> the point of design. Failing that, one just does not add features until one >> is sure that they 'correct' (for some definition of 'correct') cf: switch >> in LCB. >> >> In an existing language, we have significant constraints with regards >> backwards-compatibility and consistency to what is already there. In many >> cases, inconsistencies or un-intuitive is actually what you might call 'a >> lack of abstraction of a pattern' - an idea has been implemented for >> specific cases, but is actually an instance of a more general abstraction >> underneath. Of course in other cases, they come about because the remit of >> things that were considered when they were added was not wide enough and >> friction develops between what you have at the point of implementation, and >> what occurs to you later down the line (in some cases, many many years down >> the line). >> >> The former generally allows things to evolve in a backwards-compatible >> way, but the latter it is a great deal harder - however that's where some >> sort of 'language versioning' mechanism (e.g. scriptVersion) can help. Of >> course you need the infrastructure for the latter to be able to make >> progress on those fronts - something we don't *yet* have in LCS. >> >> And not just computer languages- the various forms of the irregular >>> verbs for instance... >>> >>> Old English am had two plural forms: 1. sind/sindon, sie and 2. >>> earon/aron. The s- form (also used in the subjunctive) fell from >>> English in the early 13c. (though its cousin continues in German sind, >>> the 3rd person plural of "to be") and was replaced by forms of be, but >>> aron (see are) continued, and as am and be merged it encroached on >>> some uses that previously had belonged to be. By the early 1500s it >>> had established its place in standard English. >>> >> Hehe - I think I understand English's irregular verbs better now :) >> >> Warmest Regards, >> >> Mark. >> >> -- >> Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ >> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From iphonelagi at gmail.com Thu May 25 07:50:33 2017 From: iphonelagi at gmail.com (Lagi Pittas) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 12:50:33 +0100 Subject: English Like? In-Reply-To: <2ff3dc66-299e-b406-c77a-38394bafb4d3@gmail.com> References: <87287AF1-9463-42DB-B866-3277490A100F@gmail.com> <4951116382f04e0e0322184f38703a00@livecode.com> <1495633525807-4715143.post@n4.nabble.com> <107595c6-0535-caa1-6361-470d9fe2dc74@sonic.net> <21726b13d2144453d408b59439b23da7@livecode.com> <2ff3dc66-299e-b406-c77a-38394bafb4d3@gmail.com> Message-ID: OOPS!! https://vimeo.com/36579366 On 25 May 2017 at 12:33, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Can you post the URL to that video, please? > > Richmond. > > On 5/25/17 1:13 pm, Lagi Pittas via use-livecode wrote: > >> Hi >> >> You might want to watch this 1 hour ish video by Bret Victor as you are >> compiling. >> I've seen a good few of his talks over the years and read a lot of his >> stuff. >> >> If you think it's too long just got to either 2:30 or 10:30 (that one is >> mind blowing) but I'd suggest you listen to the whole lecture. >> This is the Ultimate IDE but his ideas about programming also cover what >> Mark W. was saying about not being able to remember the order of >> parameters. That was in a different talk or on his website - i'll try and >> dig it out. >> >> Comments? >> >> Regards Lagi >> >> On 25 May 2017 at 09:10, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >> On 2017-05-24 23:47, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> On 05/24/2017 08:03 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: >>>> >>>> Syntax is an emotive issue (I could beat Python to death with some of >>>> the >>>> >>>>> decisions they have made about syntax - but yet I still use it and >>>>> slightly >>>>> enjoy doing so for the purposes I use it for) - but it is not the >>>>> be-all-and-end-all. >>>>> >>>>> I could say the same for any of the computer languages I use. >>>> >>>> Very true. >>> >>> Of course, the thing here is that (in general) we have more control over >>> the grammar and semantics of *programming languages* with constraints of >>> course... >>> >>> In a new language, we have complete control so (in theory) it should be >>> possible to be unambiguous, consistent and intuitive as far as is >>> possible... Assuming that one has 100% foresight and knows everything at >>> the point of design. Failing that, one just does not add features until >>> one >>> is sure that they 'correct' (for some definition of 'correct') cf: switch >>> in LCB. >>> >>> In an existing language, we have significant constraints with regards >>> backwards-compatibility and consistency to what is already there. In many >>> cases, inconsistencies or un-intuitive is actually what you might call 'a >>> lack of abstraction of a pattern' - an idea has been implemented for >>> specific cases, but is actually an instance of a more general abstraction >>> underneath. Of course in other cases, they come about because the remit >>> of >>> things that were considered when they were added was not wide enough and >>> friction develops between what you have at the point of implementation, >>> and >>> what occurs to you later down the line (in some cases, many many years >>> down >>> the line). >>> >>> The former generally allows things to evolve in a backwards-compatible >>> way, but the latter it is a great deal harder - however that's where some >>> sort of 'language versioning' mechanism (e.g. scriptVersion) can help. Of >>> course you need the infrastructure for the latter to be able to make >>> progress on those fronts - something we don't *yet* have in LCS. >>> >>> And not just computer languages- the various forms of the irregular >>> >>>> verbs for instance... >>>> >>>> Old English am had two plural forms: 1. sind/sindon, sie and 2. >>>> earon/aron. The s- form (also used in the subjunctive) fell from >>>> English in the early 13c. (though its cousin continues in German sind, >>>> the 3rd person plural of "to be") and was replaced by forms of be, but >>>> aron (see are) continued, and as am and be merged it encroached on >>>> some uses that previously had belonged to be. By the early 1500s it >>>> had established its place in standard English. >>>> >>>> Hehe - I think I understand English's irregular verbs better now :) >>> >>> Warmest Regards, >>> >>> Mark. >>> >>> -- >>> Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ >>> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Thu May 25 07:55:15 2017 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 07:55:15 -0400 Subject: English Like? In-Reply-To: <26c44d74-0cf3-56e5-89a4-aaa3eda64e8d@sonic.net> References: <87287AF1-9463-42DB-B866-3277490A100F@gmail.com> <26c44d74-0cf3-56e5-89a4-aaa3eda64e8d@sonic.net> Message-ID: Were would you use "box" as a synonym (if it were one)? Is it the same as "rectangle" or "ask/answer". End users often tell me, "a box popped up on my screen.", not a prompt, or a message. Next, they proceed to tell me what it said. ME: "You're telling me, there was a _talking box_ on your screen?". ~Roger On May 24, 2017 5:49 PM, "Mark Wieder via use-livecode" < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On 05/24/2017 05:43 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > >> One of the other things that the xtalk languages have that makes them more >> appealing is synonyms >> > > > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Thu May 25 08:12:28 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 15:12:28 +0300 Subject: English Like? In-Reply-To: References: <87287AF1-9463-42DB-B866-3277490A100F@gmail.com> <26c44d74-0cf3-56e5-89a4-aaa3eda64e8d@sonic.net> Message-ID: <25f7f82c-1355-d5f4-9459-7ba947c57143@gmail.com> If the "box" is just a rectangle then it is probably some sort of modeless window, if the "box" is 'talking' to me then it's an ask/answer thing (which have always struck me as labelled the wrong way round). Personally I tend to go for "thingy", this is so polysemantic there is absolutely no need to worry about whether it is being ambiguous or not; because it is. The "unfortunate" 'fact' is that current computers do not function like people and the other way round, and despite all the razzmatazz about fuzzy logic . . . . While there may be computers that can fool people into thinking they are humans over a phoneline, the "real" sex dolls the BBC have been burbling on about recently [ http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-39859939 ] is unlikely to fool anyone: although, come to think of things, propositioning people tends to be fairly unambiguous. Richmond. On 5/25/17 2:55 pm, Roger Eller via use-livecode wrote: > Were would you use "box" as a synonym (if it were one)? Is it the same as > "rectangle" or "ask/answer". End users often tell me, "a box popped up on > my screen.", not a prompt, or a message. Next, they proceed to tell me > what it said. ME: "You're telling me, there was a _talking box_ on your > screen?". > > ~Roger > > On May 24, 2017 5:49 PM, "Mark Wieder via use-livecode" < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> On 05/24/2017 05:43 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: >> >>> One of the other things that the xtalk languages have that makes them more >>> appealing is synonyms >>> >> >> >> -- >> Mark Wieder >> ahsoftware at gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From harrison at all-auctions.com Thu May 25 10:21:57 2017 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 10:21:57 -0400 Subject: LC Server - Upload Large Images? In-Reply-To: References: <8db55c1e0cfbd118e80564798b926b19@livecode.com> Message-ID: <37D94D3A-2285-46C3-B0B2-71FF422D540B@all-auctions.com> Hi there, After way too much wasted time - the answers ended up being: Instead of using rename which throws a sysError 20 to move the file from the /tmp/ folder to the destination folder use: put URL ("binfile:" & tFilePath) into URL ("binfile:" & VarNewPathAndFileToSaveTo) Where VarNewPathAndFileToSaveTo is your default path plus any new folder you would care to add. That works great! To display the image use: put "? This works for both small and large images. I hope this helps anyone else out there who finds themselves struggling with such issues. If anyone wants to look into the rename sysError 20 problem please feel free. My feeling about it is that should have worked, and didn?t for some weird reason. Thank you for you help and support! Rick From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu May 25 10:47:38 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 07:47:38 -0700 Subject: Printed dictionary (was Re: send mouseup to control) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <36d3b5af-b3bd-01d7-5ecb-3a4a2ba92cc8@fourthworld.com> James Hale wrote: > In following them discussion on execution contexts Richard wrote: >> The executionContexts is documented, though in all fairness that >> Dict entry includes a note about not relying on the format of its >> contents. > > ...this morning the printed dictionary arrived! ? > > So I looked up executionContexts > > Where I read... > '' A common use of the executionContexts is to obtain the name of the > object and handler that called the current handler, this information > is available as line -2 of the executionContexts." > > BTW there was no mention of any caveats in using this property. In v6.7 and later (possibly earlier too; I didn't check any version prior to v6.7), the Dictionary entry for the executionContexts includes this note: Important: The value of the executionContexts may be changed in future versions of LiveCode, it is not recommended to write code that depends on its contents. The web version of the Dictionary, though reportedly a few versions behind more recent versions (to the confusion of a few forum readers), also includes that note: https://livecode.com/resources/api/#livecode_script/executioncontexts What version was used for the printed Dictionary? All that said, I still feel comfortable using the executionContexts, though sparingly and usually with an easily-searchable flag comment* in case I need to update it later. After all, consider the fate of every Cocoa API call, or what happened to Python users moving from v2 to v3, or so many other things in the programming world. Stuff changes. If this changes too it won't be all that different from anything else we need to contend with. :) LiveCode has a far-better-than-average record for maintaining backward compatibility, and for responsibly managing change. In the rare case when a token is deprecated or its behavior is changed, it's usually called out in bold read type in the Release Notes. So if that ever happens, I'll know about it early on during the DP builds, and can find the few places I use executionContexts easily enough. Where factoring into separate handlers is the best fit for the problem, it's the best fit for the problem; a different solution like executionContexts wouldn't be the best choice in such cases anyway. But if I avoid a working solution solely out of fear of possible future change in an API, in a world where the only constant is change I'd never write any code. :) * FWIW I often flag code with three tags for easy searching, using a pattern Ken Ray and I call "Hmmm, Bang! What?": "Hmmm": --# Something worth drawing attention to for future versions, perhaps for later optimization, or just an unusual construct possibly worth reconsidering down the road. "Bang!": --! Something that MUST be addressed before release! Used for very unusual blocks that should be reviewed for revision before shipping. In the heat of the moment we may need to patch something together in one place in order to finish work in another part of the system; this flag allows finding those so we don't ship with those in place. "What?": --? Something that should be addressed as soon as time or opportunity permits, but not show-stoppers (which would use "--!" as above). Sometimes this may be a workaround for a bug in the engine, and if so I'll usually include the bug number so I can refer to it later. Or it may be a kludgey solution that works well enough for now but may be brittle or have potentially complicating implications elsewhere down the road. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Thu May 25 10:49:13 2017 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 10:49:13 -0400 Subject: Dropbox v1 API - one month until it is shut off! In-Reply-To: References: <7BEAFBC8-FA77-42A0-A36D-C3183C7DE5D9@appisle.net> Message-ID: To make matters even more interesting, even though the LC version is based on Gerard's library, the syntax appears to be different, and the operation is different as Monte made it asynchronous for paying customers. On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 10:02 PM, Mike Kerner wrote: > and unless I'm missing it, it's not in 9, yet. I don't see it in dp6. > > On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 9:58 PM, Mike Kerner > wrote: > >> Mainly what I was trying to remind everyone was that they have to get >> their code changed, asap. >> >> On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 6:05 PM, Monte Goulding via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >>> We have a derivative of Gerard?s library in LC 9: >>> >>> https://github.com/livecode/livecode/blob/develop/extensions >>> /script-libraries/dropbox/dropbox.livecodescript < >>> https://github.com/livecode/livecode/blob/develop/extension >>> s/script-libraries/dropbox/dropbox.livecodescript> >>> >>> There is not much point maintaining mergDropbox if there are script >>> library alternatives available. >>> >>> Cheers >>> >>> Monte >>> >>> > On 25 May 2017, at 5:42 am, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> > >>> > Reminder, everyone using dropbox, you have until the end of June to get >>> > your apps migrated to the v2 API before your dropbox functionality will >>> > cease. Rumor says that the Dropbox team is granting reprieves to >>> people >>> > who ask for them, but I don't know if that's for everyone for every >>> app. >>> > >>> > If you are using the phx_dropboxLib library, my advice is that you >>> download >>> > Gerard McCarthy's dropboxAPI_2 lib and get your code switched. If you >>> > don't already have it, I have it as a repo on github ( >>> > https://github.com/macMikey/dropboxapi_v2), both as a binary stack >>> and as a >>> > script-only stack, but it is available in a variety of places. >>> > >>> > If you are using mergDropbox, I just sent a reminder to Edinburgh that >>> > Monte has work to do, but I don't have an ETA. >>> > >>> > -- >>> > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >>> > On the second day, God created the oceans. >>> > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >>> > and did a little diving. >>> > And God said, "This is good." >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > use-livecode mailing list >>> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> >> >> -- >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >> On the second day, God created the oceans. >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >> and did a little diving. >> And God said, "This is good." >> > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu May 25 11:13:10 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 08:13:10 -0700 Subject: Sql problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <53c192fa-c1c7-b2f2-91b8-2d434da8adda@fourthworld.com> William Prothero wrote: > Thanks for the comments. I bet the linefeeds caused me the problem, > since I just took the contents of a text field, put them in an array, > and didn?t pay attention to linefeeds. Linefeeds are common in data. Consider any user note, such as bug reports at Bugzilla, or most emails, or the body of a note in Evernote, or most JSON data, or a great many other circumstances. Many base64 implementations output with 80-char wraps. LiveCode's formatting is not at all uncommon. If lineFeeds are a problem with a storage system there's probably a good way to account for them that will benefit many things beyond serialized arrays. > Now I remember why I didn?t try to directly connect to the dB. The > security issue makes it inadvisable to go direct. It would be nice > if there was a cautionary statement about that in the dictionary. This is an ongoing theme in forum discussions: what should the scope of the Dictionary encompass? It's a good question, one without an easy answer: On the one hand, the Dictionary is the first go-to for most learners and experienced devs alike, so it can indeed be helpful to pack as much relevant info there as practical. But on the other hand, a dictionary serves a fundamentally different role from a User Guide, the former serving as a quick reference, emphasizing only the essentials for a given token, while the latter is where we might expect longer discussions of broader contexts like architecture. Part of the problem with the User Guide is that it's seldom read, and I find many new users don't even know it exists at all. We can't blame them for missing the User Guide and being disappointed that the Dictionary doesn't serve both roles, given that the Dictionary is very easy to find in the IDE but the User Guide is buried deep in the middle of the Help menu. Suggestions for a quick rearrangement of Help menu items to draw appropriate attention to each learning resource have been submitted: http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19511 But on this specific issue, even if those valuable changes were made, it wouldn't solve the issue at hand in this thread: While there is a section in the User Guide on working with databases, the common practice of using middleware like PHP, Perl, Ruby, JavaScript, LiveCode, etc. to deliver RESTful APIS that also protect the DB from the open internet isn't covered there. Perhaps one of the readers of this list this might take a stab at adding something on that? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From hh at hyperhh.de Thu May 25 11:29:49 2017 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 17:29:49 +0200 Subject: Funny pricing policy Message-ID: <1E349462-372C-4663-B29D-6F3D52666562@hyperhh.de> The T-shirt pricing policy connected to LC Global: One has to pay 100% if one purchases LC Global nearly 'at once', one has to pay 50% if one purchases LC Global a few days later, one has to pay 0% if one answers the survey and buys LCG after that. The next steps are probably one has to pay -50% (1 and 1/2 for nothing) if one buys LCG at the last day, one has to pay -100% (two for nothing) if one buys LCG past the last day. So never buy a LC product before the day after the 'last day'. (The 'last day' for LCG is announced as May 29, 2017). ;-) From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu May 25 11:47:06 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 08:47:06 -0700 Subject: LC Server - Upload Large Images? In-Reply-To: <37D94D3A-2285-46C3-B0B2-71FF422D540B@all-auctions.com> References: <37D94D3A-2285-46C3-B0B2-71FF422D540B@all-auctions.com> Message-ID: <323be745-ac6c-2c21-6d4f-ce516784254f@fourthworld.com> Rick Harrison wrote: > After way too much wasted time - the answers ended up being: > > Instead of using rename which throws a sysError 20 to move the file > from the /tmp/ folder to the destination folder use: > > put URL ("binfile:" & tFilePath) into URL ("binfile:" & > VarNewPathAndFileToSaveTo) > > Where VarNewPathAndFileToSaveTo is your default path plus any new > folder you would care to add. > > That works great! Weird. If you can copy the file but not move it, I'm mystified. Are you sure the destination path used in both methods is the same? Can you delete the file in tmp after copying? If so, that would seem to me either a bug in LC or a bug in macOS. If not, there may be a permissions issue there where you can read but not write the file (though that wouldn't explain how your LC Server process can write to it). Also weird that there doesn't appear to be a single authoritative list of error codes from Apple that are easily findable. So far I've turned up only third-party listings (often out of date), with error 20 being described only with the vague "I/O System Error". -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Thu May 25 11:55:32 2017 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 11:55:32 -0400 Subject: Funny pricing policy In-Reply-To: <1E349462-372C-4663-B29D-6F3D52666562@hyperhh.de> References: <1E349462-372C-4663-B29D-6F3D52666562@hyperhh.de> Message-ID: Or, you can email support and magically get the discount applied, retroactively. On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 11:29 AM, hh via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > The T-shirt pricing policy connected to LC Global: > > One has to pay 100% if one purchases LC Global nearly 'at once', > one has to pay 50% if one purchases LC Global a few days later, > one has to pay 0% if one answers the survey and buys LCG after that. > > The next steps are probably > one has to pay -50% (1 and 1/2 for nothing) if one buys LCG at the last > day, > one has to pay -100% (two for nothing) if one buys LCG past the last day. > > So never buy a LC product before the day after the 'last day'. > (The 'last day' for LCG is announced as May 29, 2017). > > ;-) > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From hh at hyperhh.de Thu May 25 12:02:46 2017 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 18:02:46 +0200 Subject: Funny pricing policy Message-ID: > Mike K. wrote: > Or, you can email support and magically get the discount applied, > retroactively. That's even a bit more funny. Email support after each new discount to get the discount applied, retroactively? Why not the future discounts? ;-) From bonnmike at gmail.com Thu May 25 12:10:11 2017 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 10:10:11 -0600 Subject: LC Server - Upload Large Images? In-Reply-To: <323be745-ac6c-2c21-6d4f-ce516784254f@fourthworld.com> References: <37D94D3A-2285-46C3-B0B2-71FF422D540B@all-auctions.com> <323be745-ac6c-2c21-6d4f-ce516784254f@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: I wonder if the file is being created read only (is it possible there is a umask set on that folder that does this?) at which point renaming it, deleting, or whatever wouldn't work, but reading it and creating a copy (put url into url) would work. I'd be looking at the permissions of those newly created files in tmp and see. On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 9:47 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Rick Harrison wrote: > > > After way too much wasted time - the answers ended up being: > > > > Instead of using rename which throws a sysError 20 to move the file > > from the /tmp/ folder to the destination folder use: > > > > put URL ("binfile:" & tFilePath) into URL ("binfile:" & > > VarNewPathAndFileToSaveTo) > > > > Where VarNewPathAndFileToSaveTo is your default path plus any new > > folder you would care to add. > > > > That works great! > > Weird. If you can copy the file but not move it, I'm mystified. > > Are you sure the destination path used in both methods is the same? > > Can you delete the file in tmp after copying? If so, that would seem to > me either a bug in LC or a bug in macOS. > > If not, there may be a permissions issue there where you can read but not > write the file (though that wouldn't explain how your LC Server process can > write to it). > > Also weird that there doesn't appear to be a single authoritative list of > error codes from Apple that are easily findable. > > So far I've turned up only third-party listings (often out of date), with > error 20 being described only with the vague "I/O System Error". > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu May 25 12:21:52 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 16:21:52 +0000 Subject: Writing Extensions In-Reply-To: References: <21c77d1f-670e-3e8c-7208-51423fc24188@sonic.net> <0daf672be301a7e1daf78c519a113e31@livecode.com> <00d46d75-336a-d312-4220-a0ce3c66acca@sonic.net> <320801ffe9a00bd55db908a5e63e9bc4@livecode.com> Message-ID: <74C0A594-BE7F-4D3A-B6C0-0BC16867001A@iotecdigital.com> I agree with this. I never use the fallthrough feature because it's backwards from how I think. Trying to detemine where to put the conditions in the tree to effect the correct fall through or breaks is challenging for me. But now it is what it is. Bob S > On May 24, 2017, at 03:03 , Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: > > Okay so I was perhaps a little vociferous in what I said... However, fallthrough is > the key problem - there have been numerous subtle bugs in the engine due to it > (similarly, switch statements without 'default' can cause subtle > bugs too - if you add a value to an enum, but don't update all the switches which > switch on it). > > Perhaps a better model would be to use 'continue', rather than 'break': > > switch yourName > case "Mark" > -- do something and finish > case "John" > continue > case "Jon" > -- do something else > end switch > > The idea being that 'continue' in a case, jumps to the next choice to check. This works particularly nicely when you don't have an expression, so the cases can be expressions as that essentially gives you a 'match' type construct with back-tracking (quite useful for processing hierarchical arrays and transforming them - a common operation in writing compilers, for example). > > However, it would probably be better to change the switch syntax to use different keywords (perhaps choice?). The 'switch'/'case'/'break' paradigm is so ubiquitous (due to C) that making it work differently would be very jarring. > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > > -- > Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ > LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From ahsoftware at sonic.net Thu May 25 12:31:31 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 09:31:31 -0700 Subject: Printed dictionary (was Re: send mouseup to control) In-Reply-To: <36d3b5af-b3bd-01d7-5ecb-3a4a2ba92cc8@fourthworld.com> References: <36d3b5af-b3bd-01d7-5ecb-3a4a2ba92cc8@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <7f0a93e2-74d7-2b6e-4ff7-fa3b9b23e8f3@sonic.net> On 05/25/2017 07:47 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > James Hale wrote: > > > In following them discussion on execution contexts Richard wrote: > >> The executionContexts is documented, though in all fairness that > >> Dict entry includes a note about not relying on the format of its > >> contents. > > > > ...this morning the printed dictionary arrived! ? > > > > So I looked up executionContexts > > > > Where I read... > > '' A common use of the executionContexts is to obtain the name of the > > object and handler that called the current handler, this information > > is available as line -2 of the executionContexts." > > > > BTW there was no mention of any caveats in using this property. > > In v6.7 and later (possibly earlier too; I didn't check any version > prior to v6.7), the Dictionary entry for the executionContexts includes > this note: > > Important: The value of the executionContexts may be > changed in future versions of LiveCode, it is not > recommended to write code that depends on its contents. > > The web version of the Dictionary, though reportedly a few versions > behind more recent versions (to the confusion of a few forum readers), > also includes that note: > https://livecode.com/resources/api/#livecode_script/executioncontexts Interesting. I stand corrected - the executionContexts is documented after all. It *is* a bit out of date, though, as it doesn't reflect the additional parameter(s) for behavior objects. The additional parameter was added in a way that cleverly maintains backward compatibility, although if you need to trace your way through behaviors you need to take it into account. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From jonathandlynch at gmail.com Thu May 25 12:59:33 2017 From: jonathandlynch at gmail.com (jonathandlynch at gmail.com) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 12:59:33 -0400 Subject: Apparent peculiar behavior in browser widget on iOS Message-ID: <48010D93-4579-4A61-9C52-26A843C55CE1@gmail.com> It appears that one cannot send a JavaScript message from the browser widget to LC from a JS function initiated by a body onload event. It works on mac, but not on iPhone. It is most peculiar and I am wondering if anyone else has encountered anything like this. Sent from my iPhone From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu May 25 13:24:05 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 12:24:05 -0500 Subject: English Like? In-Reply-To: <62c68ceedc712cd64ab97cf7293884e7@livecode.com> References: <87287AF1-9463-42DB-B866-3277490A100F@gmail.com> <4951116382f04e0e0322184f38703a00@livecode.com> <1495633525807-4715143.post@n4.nabble.com> <4186cfb7-ccf9-865f-9804-9591671ac45a@sonic.net> <62c68ceedc712cd64ab97cf7293884e7@livecode.com> Message-ID: <15c40a30708.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> On May 25, 2017 3:03:01 AM Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: > On 2017-05-24 19:14, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: >> On 05/24/2017 08:03 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: >> >>> Anyway, I shall now get off my (small?) soap-box. Again this is a >>> discussion, there are lots of reasons why people don't choose LiveCode >>> and we try our very best to determine them, and deal with them. There >>> are certainly easier ones to tackle than adding a new 'syntax style' >>> and of course we intend to address those first... >> >> I just want to say that in spite of all the verbiage that showed up >> overnight, this has been a most enjoyable thread to wake up to. > > Heh - the verbiage being mostly my fault ;) > > It is amazing how your mind can wander whilst staring at a terminal > watching build instructions fly by! I really appreciate watching your mind wander. And you talk slower in print too. :) -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jonathandlynch at gmail.com Thu May 25 14:22:53 2017 From: jonathandlynch at gmail.com (jonathandlynch at gmail.com) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 14:22:53 -0400 Subject: Apparent peculiar behavior in browser widget on iOS In-Reply-To: <48010D93-4579-4A61-9C52-26A843C55CE1@gmail.com> References: <48010D93-4579-4A61-9C52-26A843C55CE1@gmail.com> Message-ID: More specifically - this seems to happen after setting the htmltext by script. It works fine if the browser widget already has the right htmltext when the stack loads. Sent from my iPhone > On May 25, 2017, at 12:59 PM, jonathandlynch at gmail.com wrote: > > It appears that one cannot send a JavaScript message from the browser widget to LC from a JS function initiated by a body onload event. > > It works on mac, but not on iPhone. > > It is most peculiar and I am wondering if anyone else has encountered anything like this. > > Sent from my iPhone From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu May 25 15:05:50 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 19:05:50 +0000 Subject: English Like? In-Reply-To: References: <87287AF1-9463-42DB-B866-3277490A100F@gmail.com> <1495638713434-4715152.post@n4.nabble.com> <28e1ced5-5736-7ed5-b0e5-ab8a0b0aa67e@sonic.net> <9a229069-7873-5c49-a22a-664b0ba3a345@sonic.net> Message-ID: <5347D615-1CAA-483A-B9CA-2453EFFEDC52@iotecdigital.com> In Jacque's Time Travel Stack, it's counter-clockwise, but only when you go back in time. Bob S > On May 24, 2017, at 13:41 , Scott Rossi via use-livecode wrote: > > @Mark ? the sequence/direction is clockwise, if that helps. So top -> left? doesn?t work. > > Scott Rossi > Creative Director > Tactile Media, UX/UI Design From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu May 25 15:08:10 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 19:08:10 +0000 Subject: English Like? In-Reply-To: <107595c6-0535-caa1-6361-470d9fe2dc74@sonic.net> References: <87287AF1-9463-42DB-B866-3277490A100F@gmail.com> <4951116382f04e0e0322184f38703a00@livecode.com> <1495633525807-4715143.post@n4.nabble.com> <107595c6-0535-caa1-6361-470d9fe2dc74@sonic.net> Message-ID: <9615222E-5CFF-4853-9900-6891642F7CDA@iotecdigital.com> Okay you copied that from an online encyclopedia! Bob S > On May 24, 2017, at 14:47 , Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > > > Syntax is an emotive issue (I could beat Python to death with some of the decisions they have made about syntax - but yet I still use it and slightly enjoy doing so for the purposes I use it for) - but it is not the be-all-and-end-all. > > I could say the same for any of the computer languages I use. > And not just computer languages- the various forms of the irregular verbs for instance... > > Old English beon, beom, bion "be, exist, come to be, become, happen," from Proto-Germanic *biju- "I am, I will be." This "b-root" is from PIE root *bheue- "to be, exist, grow," and in addition to the words in English it yielded German present first and second person singular (bin, bist, from Old High German bim "I am," bist "thou art"), Latin perfective tenses of esse (fui "I was," etc.), Old Church Slavonic byti "be," Greek phu- "become," Old Irish bi'u "I am," Lithuanian bu'ti "to be," Russian byt' "to be," etc. > > The modern verb to be in its entirety represents the merger of two once-distinct verbs, the "b-root" represented by be and the am/was verb, which was itself a conglomerate. Roger Lass ("Old English") describes the verb as "a collection of semantically related paradigm fragments," while Weekley calls it "an accidental conglomeration from the different Old English dial[ect]s." It is the most irregular verb in Modern English and the most common. Collective in all Germanic languages, it has eight different forms in Modern English: > > BE (infinitive, subjunctive, imperative) > AM (present 1st person singular) > ARE (present 2nd person singular and all plural) > IS (present 3rd person singular) > WAS (past 1st and 3rd persons singular) > WERE (past 2nd person singular, all plural; subjunctive) > BEING (progressive & present participle; gerund) > BEEN (perfect participle). > > Old English am had two plural forms: 1. sind/sindon, sie and 2. earon/aron. The s- form (also used in the subjunctive) fell from English in the early 13c. (though its cousin continues in German sind, the 3rd person plural of "to be") and was replaced by forms of be, but aron (see are) continued, and as am and be merged it encroached on some uses that previously had belonged to be. By the early 1500s it had established its place in standard English. > > That but this blow Might be the be all, and the end all. > ["Macbeth" I.vii.5] > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu May 25 15:10:54 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 19:10:54 +0000 Subject: English Like? In-Reply-To: References: <87287AF1-9463-42DB-B866-3277490A100F@gmail.com> <4951116382f04e0e0322184f38703a00@livecode.com> <1495633525807-4715143.post@n4.nabble.com> <603B28D5-80C5-4FE6-991F-4CAAB6261D8B@earthlearningsolutions.org> Message-ID: I almost ace'd grammar in grade school, but I kept complaining that the English language had more exceptions than it had actual rules. Bob S > On May 25, 2017, at 02:54 , Keith Martin via use-livecode wrote: > > Speaking as a university lecturer who teaches LC to graphic design students from time to time, I can absolutely attest to the benefits of the 'English-like' qualities of xTalk. They get it, they can work things out, they can use it to create *their own* basic tools and toys, and this after just one afternoon. From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu May 25 15:13:29 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 19:13:29 +0000 Subject: English Like? In-Reply-To: <25f7f82c-1355-d5f4-9459-7ba947c57143@gmail.com> References: <87287AF1-9463-42DB-B866-3277490A100F@gmail.com> <26c44d74-0cf3-56e5-89a4-aaa3eda64e8d@sonic.net> <25f7f82c-1355-d5f4-9459-7ba947c57143@gmail.com> Message-ID: Technically, a box is a 3 dimentional object made of 6 rectangles each joined at the corners to form a solid object. If there are one of those on your screen and it's talking to you, I'd lay off the kimche for a bit and get some sleep. Oh, and when drinking vodka, don't eat the worm!!! Bob S > On May 25, 2017, at 05:12 , Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: > > If the "box" is just a rectangle then it is probably some sort of modeless window, > > if the "box" is 'talking' to me then it's an ask/answer thing (which have always struck me as > labelled the wrong way round). From ahsoftware at sonic.net Thu May 25 15:18:54 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 12:18:54 -0700 Subject: English Like? In-Reply-To: <9615222E-5CFF-4853-9900-6891642F7CDA@iotecdigital.com> References: <87287AF1-9463-42DB-B866-3277490A100F@gmail.com> <4951116382f04e0e0322184f38703a00@livecode.com> <1495633525807-4715143.post@n4.nabble.com> <107595c6-0535-caa1-6361-470d9fe2dc74@sonic.net> <9615222E-5CFF-4853-9900-6891642F7CDA@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <241ed252-3357-e84f-636d-15ab0b77b0ad@sonic.net> On 05/25/2017 12:08 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > Okay you copied that from an online encyclopedia! A couple of them, actually. Pasted the most interesting parts together. You didn't really think I got that out of my own head, did you? -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From jeff at siphonophore.com Thu May 25 15:19:47 2017 From: jeff at siphonophore.com (Jeff Reynolds) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 15:19:47 -0400 Subject: mac/win codecs Message-ID: I was trying to find the page i had last fall that had the current codecs supported on windows under livecode 7. Cant find anything now on the current livecode site on the codecs supported or the video api used. Can anyone point me to where the info is for lc 7.1? thanks jeff From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu May 25 15:27:42 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 19:27:42 +0000 Subject: Sql problem In-Reply-To: References: <9694FB26-B521-4423-99D2-4831BDF91634@gmail.com> <81568C16-573A-453E-BF08-ADCB4B305454@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <7552B09A-325D-40A1-B28D-D2170C7C1B95@iotecdigital.com> Boy howdy do I have one! Forms Generator currently connects directly to SQL because if I had to write it using only the LC API, I would never have persued it to the level that I have. As it is, it's a critical component of our everyday workflow for my IT techs. I bet with a Web API, a LOT more people would look at it. I personally would pay for an upgrade using the Web API, as technically I am breaking all kinds of best practices. What makes it even more appealing is the fact that mySQL for Windows is *VERY VERY DIFFICULT* to set up to run with SSL, perhaps not possible at all with the Public Source version without being an application compilation guru, so encryption point to point is an issue a web API would solve. Bob S > On May 25, 2017, at 02:02 , Trevor DeVore via use-livecode wrote: > > I always thought it would be nice to have a different type of connector in > SQL Yoga that would interface with a web API. I never had a project where I > needed to actually flesh out the idea to see if it was practical. > > -- > Trevor DeVore > ScreenSteps > www.screensteps.com From andre at andregarzia.com Thu May 25 15:34:59 2017 From: andre at andregarzia.com (Andre Garzia) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 16:34:59 -0300 Subject: Sql problem In-Reply-To: <7552B09A-325D-40A1-B28D-D2170C7C1B95@iotecdigital.com> References: <9694FB26-B521-4423-99D2-4831BDF91634@gmail.com> <81568C16-573A-453E-BF08-ADCB4B305454@iotecdigital.com> <7552B09A-325D-40A1-B28D-D2170C7C1B95@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 4:27 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > mySQL for Windows is *VERY VERY DIFFICULT* to set up to run with SSL Bob, About running MySQL on Windows, a good choice would be using docker[1]. There are pre-made images for running MySQL under Docker, it would just be a matter of familiarizing yourself with docker and then configuring the image. No need to compile anything. [1] Docker: http://docker.com/ [2] Official MySQL image for Docker: https://hub.docker.com/r/mysql/mysql-server/ Cheers andre -- http://www.andregarzia.com -- All We Do Is Code. http://fon.nu -- minimalist url shortening service. From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Thu May 25 15:41:23 2017 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 15:41:23 -0400 Subject: Funny pricing policy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: why not? Coupons are always retroactive. On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 12:02 PM, hh via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > Mike K. wrote: > > Or, you can email support and magically get the discount applied, > > retroactively. > > That's even a bit more funny. > Email support after each new discount to get the discount applied, > retroactively? Why not the future discounts? > > ;-) > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu May 25 15:52:46 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 14:52:46 -0500 Subject: English Like? In-Reply-To: <5347D615-1CAA-483A-B9CA-2453EFFEDC52@iotecdigital.com> References: <87287AF1-9463-42DB-B866-3277490A100F@gmail.com> <1495638713434-4715152.post@n4.nabble.com> <28e1ced5-5736-7ed5-b0e5-ab8a0b0aa67e@sonic.net> <9a229069-7873-5c49-a22a-664b0ba3a345@sonic.net> <5347D615-1CAA-483A-B9CA-2453EFFEDC52@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <98c69ed7-c225-2679-eb91-cdf6dbad7faa@hyperactivesw.com> You have to go back in space too, it's the only way to make "top" turn into "left". On 5/25/17 2:05 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > In Jacque's Time Travel Stack, it's counter-clockwise, but only when you go back in time. > > Bob S > > >> On May 24, 2017, at 13:41 , Scott Rossi via use-livecode wrote: >> >> @Mark ? the sequence/direction is clockwise, if that helps. So top -> left? doesn?t work. >> >> Scott Rossi >> Creative Director >> Tactile Media, UX/UI Design > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Thu May 25 16:14:22 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 23:14:22 +0300 Subject: English Like? In-Reply-To: References: <87287AF1-9463-42DB-B866-3277490A100F@gmail.com> <26c44d74-0cf3-56e5-89a4-aaa3eda64e8d@sonic.net> <25f7f82c-1355-d5f4-9459-7ba947c57143@gmail.com> Message-ID: Quite. I never drink vodka. But a "box" is not a BOX, and more than a "button" on a computer screen has anything whatsoever to do with buttons on my radio. If I drink Rakia (the Bulgarian homologue of Whisky) I can feel this intuitively. I was not so daft as to use the word BOX without quotation marks as, oddly enough, I am aware that a box is often an object consisting of 5 or six rectangles making a container (but NOT a solid object). When writing about a "box" on a screen, knowing that everything on a computer screen is part of some gloriously extended metaphor I use quotation marks. Right, I'm off for a modest glass of rakia and a slightly more generous 9 hours sleep. Richmond. On 5/25/17 10:13 pm, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > Technically, a box is a 3 dimentional object made of 6 rectangles each joined at the corners to form a solid object. If there are one of those on your screen and it's talking to you, I'd lay off the kimche for a bit and get some sleep. Oh, and when drinking vodka, don't eat the worm!!! > > Bob S > > >> On May 25, 2017, at 05:12 , Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: >> >> If the "box" is just a rectangle then it is probably some sort of modeless window, >> >> if the "box" is 'talking' to me then it's an ask/answer thing (which have always struck me as >> labelled the wrong way round). > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dochawk at gmail.com Thu May 25 16:19:27 2017 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 13:19:27 -0700 Subject: English Like? In-Reply-To: References: <87287AF1-9463-42DB-B866-3277490A100F@gmail.com> <4951116382f04e0e0322184f38703a00@livecode.com> <1495633525807-4715143.post@n4.nabble.com> <603B28D5-80C5-4FE6-991F-4CAAB6261D8B@earthlearningsolutions.org> Message-ID: On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 12:10 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I almost ace'd grammar in grade school, but I kept complaining that the > English language had more exceptions than it had actual rules. > And we like it that way! :) -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Thu May 25 16:23:15 2017 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 16:23:15 -0400 Subject: English Like? In-Reply-To: References: <87287AF1-9463-42DB-B866-3277490A100F@gmail.com> <4951116382f04e0e0322184f38703a00@livecode.com> <1495633525807-4715143.post@n4.nabble.com> <603B28D5-80C5-4FE6-991F-4CAAB6261D8B@earthlearningsolutions.org> Message-ID: Conjunctions should not be used as the first word in a sentence. On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 4:19 PM, Dr. Hawkins via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 12:10 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > I almost ace'd grammar in grade school, but I kept complaining that the > > English language had more exceptions than it had actual rules. > > > > And we like it that way! > > :) > > > -- > Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. > (702) 508-8462 > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu May 25 16:32:37 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 20:32:37 +0000 Subject: Sql problem In-Reply-To: <7552B09A-325D-40A1-B28D-D2170C7C1B95@iotecdigital.com> References: <9694FB26-B521-4423-99D2-4831BDF91634@gmail.com> <81568C16-573A-453E-BF08-ADCB4B305454@iotecdigital.com> <7552B09A-325D-40A1-B28D-D2170C7C1B95@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <1846ADC1-780B-473D-AFF9-FBACEC84AB10@iotecdigital.com> Should read, "Forms Generator currently connects directly to SQL VIA SQLYOGA because if I had to write it using only the LC API, I would never have persued it to the level that I have. > > On May 25, 2017, at 12:27 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > > Forms Generator currently connects directly to SQL because if I had to write it using only the LC API, I would never have persued it to the level that I have. From dochawk at gmail.com Thu May 25 16:41:01 2017 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 13:41:01 -0700 Subject: English Like? In-Reply-To: References: <87287AF1-9463-42DB-B866-3277490A100F@gmail.com> <4951116382f04e0e0322184f38703a00@livecode.com> <1495633525807-4715143.post@n4.nabble.com> <603B28D5-80C5-4FE6-991F-4CAAB6261D8B@earthlearningsolutions.org> Message-ID: On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 1:23 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Conjunctions should not be used as the first word in a sentence. It was the type of grammar up with which I shall not put! -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From danoldboy at gmail.com Thu May 25 16:41:09 2017 From: danoldboy at gmail.com (Dan Brown) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 21:41:09 +0100 Subject: Funny pricing policy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Can't believe the streaming events are being paywalled. Its really backward. The idea should be to to entice the wider programming world IN, not lock them out. On 25 May 2017 8:42 pm, "Mike Kerner via use-livecode" < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > why not? Coupons are always retroactive. > > On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 12:02 PM, hh via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > Mike K. wrote: > > > Or, you can email support and magically get the discount applied, > > > retroactively. > > > > That's even a bit more funny. > > Email support after each new discount to get the discount applied, > > retroactively? Why not the future discounts? > > > > ;-) > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu May 25 16:41:49 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 20:41:49 +0000 Subject: WannaCry [OT] In-Reply-To: <8a2f3e6c65d0e972dbe378153183f442@livecode.com> References: <84dd251e-4a61-3555-923d-fdeb0765d74d@fourthworld.com> <5df11c345af3bd65b76508a3b25d74bc@livecode.com> <27721081-093A-4594-9FA9-A65AF5861DD4@iotecdigital.com> <8a2f3e6c65d0e972dbe378153183f442@livecode.com> Message-ID: <93F2CABD-2522-4C0F-A52E-A9507F8C731C@iotecdigital.com> Agreed. I didn't mean to imply that because exploitable code is difficult to sus out, we shouldn't do due diligence in designing things with that in mind in the first place. I don't think Novell has ever been hacked into from the outside. It was written ground up with security, especially network security in mind. My point was that because spotting vulnerabilities in existing code is really REALLY REALLY etc... difficult, both for the hacker and the developer, we can never take the stance that, "Now we have found all the problems". Bob S > On May 25, 2017, at 02:38 , Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: > > The reality is that whilst exploiting a vulnerability in general is REALLY HARD (seriously, when I say REALLY HARD, I mean REALLY REALLY REALLY HARD and this is why you only tend to see exploits in things which have a very large reward for making that exploit - hackers have to consider ROI too!) - all they need is a vulnerability in the first place. From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Thu May 25 16:44:21 2017 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 16:44:21 -0400 Subject: Funny pricing policy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It's a developer conference, just an online one. If it was being held in a hall or at LC HQ, you would have to pay to attend. On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 4:41 PM, Dan Brown via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Can't believe the streaming events are being paywalled. Its really > backward. The idea should be to to entice the wider programming world IN, > not lock them out. > > On 25 May 2017 8:42 pm, "Mike Kerner via use-livecode" < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > why not? Coupons are always retroactive. > > > > On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 12:02 PM, hh via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > > > Mike K. wrote: > > > > Or, you can email support and magically get the discount applied, > > > > retroactively. > > > > > > That's even a bit more funny. > > > Email support after each new discount to get the discount applied, > > > retroactively? Why not the future discounts? > > > > > > ;-) > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > > subscription preferences: > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > and did a little diving. > > And God said, "This is good." > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Thu May 25 16:46:04 2017 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 16:46:04 -0400 Subject: Is there any way at all to have a mobile app simply resume rather than restart? In-Reply-To: References: <9AF7F586-BD6F-45E2-8167-FB62A876B5EB@gmail.com> <00b301d2d4d3$2e274840$8a75d8c0$@net> <376308F6-EA5E-4CF0-913F-22BDE426F00D@gmail.com> Message-ID: Jonathan, Are we running? For the next person who is trying to solve the same problem, it would be good to let them know how it ends. On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 10:03 PM, Mike Kerner wrote: > I'm pretty sure you can't do it while it's still in the applications > folder. You have to command-drag it out of the applications folder, first, > before you modify it - at least I do, anyway. > > On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 5:57 PM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> This is great Ralph >> >> Thank you >> >> I wonder if this can open up other possibilities as well >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> > On May 24, 2017, at 5:17 PM, Ralph DiMola >> wrote: >> > >> > 1) Go to the Applications folder >> > 2) Right click on the LC app you are using and select "Show Package >> > Contents" >> > 3) Navigate to the "Tools/Runtime/iOS" folder >> > 4) Right click on all the device/simulator folders one at a time and >> select >> > "Get Info" >> > 5) At the bottom click on the "Read only" to the right of your account >> name >> > and select "Read & Write" >> > 6) Repeat 5 for all device/simulator folders >> > 7) In each of the device/simulator folders edit the setting.plist file. >> > 8) To edit... right click the setting.plist file and select "Open With" >> and >> > then "Other..." and select "TextEdit.app". >> > 9) You will get a warning that the file is locked. Choose the Unlock >> option. >> > >> > 10) Either change UIApplicationExitsOnSuspend key value to "False" or >> like I >> > do delete the key all together(2 lines) >> > 11) repeat 8-10 for setting.plist in each of the device/simulator >> folders. >> > 12) Fire up LC and make an iOS app. >> > >> > Ralph DiMola >> > IT Director >> > Evergreen Information Services >> > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net >> > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On >> Behalf >> > Of Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode >> > Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 4:37 PM >> > To: How to use LiveCode >> > Cc: jonathandlynch at gmail.com >> > Subject: Re: Is there any way at all to have a mobile app simply resume >> > rather than restart? >> > >> > I don't actually know how to do any of the steps for this - would be >> easy on >> > a pc. Researching it now. >> > >> > Sent from my iPhone >> > >> >> On May 24, 2017, at 4:27 PM, jonathandlynch at gmail.com wrote: >> >> >> >> I read that on the forums, but I defer to Ralph on this. >> >> >> >> I am playing with the hack now. >> >> >> >> I think I could also have a legitimate reason for playing audio - >> changing >> > the music as a user gets closer to a marker - but that would be a lot of >> > trouble to set up right now. >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> >> >>> On May 24, 2017, at 4:07 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode >> > wrote: >> >>> >> >>> Are you sure? I'm pretty sure I have at least a couple of apps I >> >>> built in >> >>> 8 that still use the hack. >> >>> >> >>> On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 3:54 PM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode < >> >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >>> >> >>>> It looks like the plist hack is not available in version 8. >> >>>> >> >>>> Choosing background audio works - but that means I need to have a >> >>>> plausible reason for having background audio or Apple reviewers >> >>>> might ding the app. >> >>>> >> >>>> What a pain - why not just allow it to work the way other apps work? >> >>>> >> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >> >>>> >> >>>>> On May 24, 2017, at 3:43 PM, jonathandlynch at gmail.com wrote: >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Thank you! >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> On May 24, 2017, at 3:34 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < >> >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> If you're referring to ios, look up "plist hack", here. The only >> >>>>>> thing >> >>>> to >> >>>>>> remember is that for each version of LC, you have to perform the >> >>>>>> hack, again, until Edinburgh gives us a Standalone Settings option. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 3:22 PM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode < >> >>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>>> Having to restart the app from scratch sucks. I can store the >> >>>>>>> current state, but my users would have to wait for the map widget >> >>>>>>> to reload >> >>>> every >> >>>>>>> time they came back from another app. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >> >>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> >>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> >>>>>>> subscription preferences: >> >>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> -- >> >>>>>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the >> >>>>>> second day, God created the oceans. >> >>>>>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and >> >>>>>> did a little diving. >> >>>>>> And God said, "This is good." >> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >> >>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> >>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> >>>> subscription preferences: >> >>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >>>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> use-livecode mailing list >> >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> >>>> subscription preferences: >> >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> -- >> >>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second >> >>> day, God created the oceans. >> >>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and >> >>> did a little diving. >> >>> And God said, "This is good." >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> use-livecode mailing list >> >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> > subscription preferences: >> >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > use-livecode mailing list >> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription >> > preferences: >> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From ahsoftware at sonic.net Thu May 25 16:46:56 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 13:46:56 -0700 Subject: English Like? In-Reply-To: References: <87287AF1-9463-42DB-B866-3277490A100F@gmail.com> <4951116382f04e0e0322184f38703a00@livecode.com> <1495633525807-4715143.post@n4.nabble.com> <603B28D5-80C5-4FE6-991F-4CAAB6261D8B@earthlearningsolutions.org> Message-ID: <8a0ffe30-581e-0ada-fda2-de105e54f401@sonic.net> On 05/25/2017 01:23 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > Conjunctions should not be used as the first word in a sentence. You shouldn't put sentences in passive voice. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu May 25 16:51:08 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 20:51:08 +0000 Subject: English Like? In-Reply-To: <98c69ed7-c225-2679-eb91-cdf6dbad7faa@hyperactivesw.com> References: <87287AF1-9463-42DB-B866-3277490A100F@gmail.com> <1495638713434-4715152.post@n4.nabble.com> <28e1ced5-5736-7ed5-b0e5-ab8a0b0aa67e@sonic.net> <9a229069-7873-5c49-a22a-664b0ba3a345@sonic.net> <5347D615-1CAA-483A-B9CA-2453EFFEDC52@iotecdigital.com> <98c69ed7-c225-2679-eb91-cdf6dbad7faa@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Seriously. This is what most people who think they know about time travel do not get. Given time travel backwards 4 hours, if you do not ALSO go back in space, the first thing you will notice is how mind bogglingly cold it is, and shortly thereafter that there is no air to breath, and if you survive long enough in that state, you will have the joy of watching the Planet Earth come barrelling towards you at roughly 1,000 MPH and scattering your ashes about as you burn up in the atmosphere, while some kid in New Mexico says, "Look mommy! A shooting star!!" Obviously Jacque thought of this... or experimented on someone else first. Bob S > On May 25, 2017, at 12:52 , J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: > > You have to go back in space too, it's the only way to make "top" turn into "left". > > On 5/25/17 2:05 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu May 25 16:52:05 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 20:52:05 +0000 Subject: English Like? In-Reply-To: References: <87287AF1-9463-42DB-B866-3277490A100F@gmail.com> <26c44d74-0cf3-56e5-89a4-aaa3eda64e8d@sonic.net> <25f7f82c-1355-d5f4-9459-7ba947c57143@gmail.com> Message-ID: <207F86C0-E866-45DF-BA20-A48E0BE230B0@iotecdigital.com> Oh right. Bob S > On May 25, 2017, at 13:14 , Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: > > making a container (but NOT a solid object). From danoldboy at gmail.com Thu May 25 16:55:38 2017 From: danoldboy at gmail.com (Dan Brown) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 21:55:38 +0100 Subject: Funny pricing policy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Developer conferences nowadays are more often than not available online, for free http://pyvideo.org and are utilised to showcase ideas and concepts to a wider audience. They're a great marketing asset, especially keynotes On 25 May 2017 9:45 pm, "Mike Kerner via use-livecode" < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: It's a developer conference, just an online one. If it was being held in a hall or at LC HQ, you would have to pay to attend. On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 4:41 PM, Dan Brown via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Can't believe the streaming events are being paywalled. Its really > backward. The idea should be to to entice the wider programming world IN, > not lock them out. > > On 25 May 2017 8:42 pm, "Mike Kerner via use-livecode" < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > why not? Coupons are always retroactive. > > > > On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 12:02 PM, hh via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > > > Mike K. wrote: > > > > Or, you can email support and magically get the discount applied, > > > > retroactively. > > > > > > That's even a bit more funny. > > > Email support after each new discount to get the discount applied, > > > retroactively? Why not the future discounts? > > > > > > ;-) > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > > subscription preferences: > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > and did a little diving. > > And God said, "This is good." > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dan at clearvisiontech.com Thu May 25 16:59:25 2017 From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 20:59:25 +0000 Subject: Open Inv Stack on iPhone Message-ID: <57630C02-839E-4A1D-B4E6-C123A3F89BA6@clearvisiontech.com> Does anyone have any insight about this?. If you open a stack file on an iPhone invisibly, the app crashes. For example: open inv stack ?/folder/folder/stackName.rev" This works fine on windows, mac, and an iPad. But, on a iPhone (real device or simulator) it crashes. Any thoughts? Or perhaps a workaround? The file and the path are good. I know this because if I open the stack without ?inv?, it opens just fine. LC 8.1.3 iOS 10.3.1 FYI, the goal is to get the stack file open and in memory so I can call it later. But, I don?t want to see it open. Thanks in advance! -Dan From dochawk at gmail.com Thu May 25 16:59:30 2017 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 13:59:30 -0700 Subject: English Like? In-Reply-To: <8a0ffe30-581e-0ada-fda2-de105e54f401@sonic.net> References: <87287AF1-9463-42DB-B866-3277490A100F@gmail.com> <4951116382f04e0e0322184f38703a00@livecode.com> <1495633525807-4715143.post@n4.nabble.com> <603B28D5-80C5-4FE6-991F-4CAAB6261D8B@earthlearningsolutions.org> <8a0ffe30-581e-0ada-fda2-de105e54f401@sonic.net> Message-ID: On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 1:46 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On 05/25/2017 01:23 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > >> Conjunctions should not be used as the first word in a sentence. >> > > You shouldn't put sentences in passive voice. It's not his fault; the sentence was written that way. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Thu May 25 17:12:57 2017 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 17:12:57 -0400 Subject: Funny pricing policy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: OK, you gotta tell me which private developer tool companies have free admission to their conferences, so I can attend one and learn something new. I just looked at 4D, Apple, FMP, Google, and Zoho's conference sites, and all were charging for admission. On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 4:55 PM, Dan Brown via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Developer conferences nowadays are more often than not available online, > for free http://pyvideo.org and are utilised to showcase ideas and > concepts > to a wider audience. They're a great marketing asset, especially keynotes > > On 25 May 2017 9:45 pm, "Mike Kerner via use-livecode" < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > It's a developer conference, just an online one. If it was being held in a > hall or at LC HQ, you would have to pay to attend. > > On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 4:41 PM, Dan Brown via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > Can't believe the streaming events are being paywalled. Its really > > backward. The idea should be to to entice the wider programming world IN, > > not lock them out. > > > > On 25 May 2017 8:42 pm, "Mike Kerner via use-livecode" < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > > why not? Coupons are always retroactive. > > > > > > On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 12:02 PM, hh via use-livecode < > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > Mike K. wrote: > > > > > Or, you can email support and magically get the discount applied, > > > > > retroactively. > > > > > > > > That's even a bit more funny. > > > > Email support after each new discount to get the discount applied, > > > > retroactively? Why not the future discounts? > > > > > > > > ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > > > subscription preferences: > > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > > and did a little diving. > > > And God said, "This is good." > > > _______________________________________________ > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > > subscription preferences: > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From thatkeith at mac.com Thu May 25 17:14:16 2017 From: thatkeith at mac.com (Keith Martin) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 22:14:16 +0100 Subject: English Like? In-Reply-To: References: <87287AF1-9463-42DB-B866-3277490A100F@gmail.com> <4951116382f04e0e0322184f38703a00@livecode.com> <1495633525807-4715143.post@n4.nabble.com> <603B28D5-80C5-4FE6-991F-4CAAB6261D8B@earthlearningsolutions.org> Message-ID: On 25 May 2017, at 20:10, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > I almost ace'd grammar in grade school, but I kept complaining that > the English language had more exceptions than it had actual rules. Sounds like you *should* have aced it. :D k From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu May 25 17:24:48 2017 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 16:24:48 -0500 Subject: English Like? In-Reply-To: References: <87287AF1-9463-42DB-B866-3277490A100F@gmail.com> <1495638713434-4715152.post@n4.nabble.com> <28e1ced5-5736-7ed5-b0e5-ab8a0b0aa67e@sonic.net> <9a229069-7873-5c49-a22a-664b0ba3a345@sonic.net> <5347D615-1CAA-483A-B9CA-2453EFFEDC52@iotecdigital.com> <98c69ed7-c225-2679-eb91-cdf6dbad7faa@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: It will become blindingly clear to you in a couple of years who I will have tested it on. On 5/25/17 3:51 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > Seriously. This is what most people who think they know about time travel do not get. Given time travel backwards 4 hours, if you do not ALSO go back in space, the first thing you will notice is how mind bogglingly cold it is, and shortly thereafter that there is no air to breath, and if you survive long enough in that state, you will have the joy of watching the Planet Earth come barrelling towards you at roughly 1,000 MPH and scattering your ashes about as you burn up in the atmosphere, while some kid in New Mexico says, "Look mommy! A shooting star!!" > > Obviously Jacque thought of this... or experimented on someone else first. > > Bob S > > >> On May 25, 2017, at 12:52 , J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >> >> You have to go back in space too, it's the only way to make "top" turn into "left". -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Thu May 25 17:29:51 2017 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 23:29:51 +0200 Subject: Open Inv Stack on iPhone In-Reply-To: <57630C02-839E-4A1D-B4E6-C123A3F89BA6@clearvisiontech.com> References: <57630C02-839E-4A1D-B4E6-C123A3F89BA6@clearvisiontech.com> Message-ID: Assuming that you don't need to display the stack, you could use start using stack ?/folder/folder/stackName.rev" and reference any objects and scripts in the stack. Kind regards, Mark Schonewille http://economy-x-talk.com https://www.facebook.com/marksch Buy the most extensive book on the LiveCode language: http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com Op 25-May-17 om 22:59 schreef Dan Friedman via use-livecode: > Does anyone have any insight about this?. If you open a stack file on an iPhone invisibly, the app crashes. For example: > > open inv stack ?/folder/folder/stackName.rev" > > This works fine on windows, mac, and an iPad. But, on a iPhone (real device or simulator) it crashes. Any thoughts? Or perhaps a workaround? > > The file and the path are good. I know this because if I open the stack without ?inv?, it opens just fine. > > LC 8.1.3 > iOS 10.3.1 > > FYI, the goal is to get the stack file open and in memory so I can call it later. But, I don?t want to see it open. > > Thanks in advance! > -Dan > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From dochawk at gmail.com Thu May 25 17:35:28 2017 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 14:35:28 -0700 Subject: English Like? In-Reply-To: References: <87287AF1-9463-42DB-B866-3277490A100F@gmail.com> <1495638713434-4715152.post@n4.nabble.com> <28e1ced5-5736-7ed5-b0e5-ab8a0b0aa67e@sonic.net> <9a229069-7873-5c49-a22a-664b0ba3a345@sonic.net> <5347D615-1CAA-483A-B9CA-2453EFFEDC52@iotecdigital.com> <98c69ed7-c225-2679-eb91-cdf6dbad7faa@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 2:24 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > It will become blindingly clear to you in a couple of years who I will > have tested it on. You forgot to gratuitously split an infinitive . . . -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From tore.nilsen at me.com Thu May 25 17:58:26 2017 From: tore.nilsen at me.com (Tore Nilsen) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 23:58:26 +0200 Subject: English Like? In-Reply-To: References: <87287AF1-9463-42DB-B866-3277490A100F@gmail.com> <1495638713434-4715152.post@n4.nabble.com> <28e1ced5-5736-7ed5-b0e5-ab8a0b0aa67e@sonic.net> <9a229069-7873-5c49-a22a-664b0ba3a345@sonic.net> <5347D615-1CAA-483A-B9CA-2453EFFEDC52@iotecdigital.com> <98c69ed7-c225-2679-eb91-cdf6dbad7faa@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: I have on several occasions propagated this list to my computer science students. Now I wonder whether it had not been just as appropriate to tell my English students that they would benefit from joining this list. Tore Nilsen > 25. mai 2017 kl. 23.35 skrev Dr. Hawkins via use-livecode : > > On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 2:24 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> It will become blindingly clear to you in a couple of years who I will >> have tested it on. > > > You forgot to gratuitously split an infinitive . . . > > -- > Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. > (702) 508-8462 > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dan at clearvisiontech.com Thu May 25 18:05:15 2017 From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 22:05:15 +0000 Subject: Open Inv Stack on iPhone In-Reply-To: <> Message-ID: Mark, Good suggestion! But, I will need to display the stack at some point. There must be a reason why this is failing. Perhaps someone at LC will see this post and shed some light. -Dan >> Assuming that you don't need to display the stack, you could use start using stack ?/folder/folder/stackName.rev" and reference any objects and scripts in the stack. From stephen at barncard.com Thu May 25 18:31:16 2017 From: stephen at barncard.com (Stephen Barncard) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 15:31:16 -0700 Subject: English Like? In-Reply-To: References: <87287AF1-9463-42DB-B866-3277490A100F@gmail.com> <1495638713434-4715152.post@n4.nabble.com> <28e1ced5-5736-7ed5-b0e5-ab8a0b0aa67e@sonic.net> <9a229069-7873-5c49-a22a-664b0ba3a345@sonic.net> <5347D615-1CAA-483A-B9CA-2453EFFEDC52@iotecdigital.com> <98c69ed7-c225-2679-eb91-cdf6dbad7faa@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 2:24 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > It will become blindingly clear to you in a couple of years who I will > have tested it on. > and don't forget dangling participles. sqb -- Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA - mixstream.org From johnpatten at me.com Thu May 25 18:32:55 2017 From: johnpatten at me.com (JOHN PATTEN) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 15:32:55 -0700 Subject: FTP from iOS but getting tsneterr: (67) Access denied: 530 Message-ID: Hi All, I?m trying to ftp and image from the photo gallery on iOS to my on-rev account. I?m using the example: ------------ on mouseUp mobilepickphoto ?library" --upload to FTP put the last image into url ("ftp://autoimage at jdoe.on-rev.com:xxxxxxxxx at jdoe.on-rev.com/autoimage/images/newimage.jpg?) --Informs of successful or unsuccessful upload if the result is not empty then answer "url put failed:" && the result else answer "success!? end if end mouseUp ?????? It is throwing and an error, tsnetterr:(67) Access Denied: 530. I can use Fetch (a mac FTP client) just fine with the same credentials and upload an image with no problem. I don?t even have to give Fetch the full ftp directory, just the host. What am I missing? Thank you! John Patten SUSD From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Thu May 25 18:45:03 2017 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 18:45:03 -0400 Subject: Is there any way at all to have a mobile app simply resume rather than restart? In-Reply-To: References: <9AF7F586-BD6F-45E2-8167-FB62A876B5EB@gmail.com> <00b301d2d4d3$2e274840$8a75d8c0$@net> <376308F6-EA5E-4CF0-913F-22BDE426F00D@gmail.com> Message-ID: <004501d2d5a8$8cdfe0b0$a69fa210$@net> It works for me on OSX 10.11.6 Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Mike Kerner via use-livecode Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 10:04 PM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: Mike Kerner Subject: Re: Is there any way at all to have a mobile app simply resume rather than restart? I'm pretty sure you can't do it while it's still in the applications folder. You have to command-drag it out of the applications folder, first, before you modify it - at least I do, anyway. On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 5:57 PM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > This is great Ralph > > Thank you > > I wonder if this can open up other possibilities as well > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On May 24, 2017, at 5:17 PM, Ralph DiMola > > > wrote: > > > > 1) Go to the Applications folder > > 2) Right click on the LC app you are using and select "Show Package > > Contents" > > 3) Navigate to the "Tools/Runtime/iOS" folder > > 4) Right click on all the device/simulator folders one at a time and > select > > "Get Info" > > 5) At the bottom click on the "Read only" to the right of your > > account > name > > and select "Read & Write" > > 6) Repeat 5 for all device/simulator folders > > 7) In each of the device/simulator folders edit the setting.plist file. > > 8) To edit... right click the setting.plist file and select "Open With" > and > > then "Other..." and select "TextEdit.app". > > 9) You will get a warning that the file is locked. Choose the Unlock > option. > > > > 10) Either change UIApplicationExitsOnSuspend key value to "False" > > or > like I > > do delete the key all together(2 lines) > > 11) repeat 8-10 for setting.plist in each of the device/simulator > folders. > > 12) Fire up LC and make an iOS app. > > > > Ralph DiMola > > IT Director > > Evergreen Information Services > > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On > Behalf > > Of Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode > > Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 4:37 PM > > To: How to use LiveCode > > Cc: jonathandlynch at gmail.com > > Subject: Re: Is there any way at all to have a mobile app simply > > resume rather than restart? > > > > I don't actually know how to do any of the steps for this - would be > easy on > > a pc. Researching it now. > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > >> On May 24, 2017, at 4:27 PM, jonathandlynch at gmail.com wrote: > >> > >> I read that on the forums, but I defer to Ralph on this. > >> > >> I am playing with the hack now. > >> > >> I think I could also have a legitimate reason for playing audio - > changing > > the music as a user gets closer to a marker - but that would be a > > lot of trouble to set up right now. > >> > >> Sent from my iPhone > >> > >>> On May 24, 2017, at 4:07 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode > > wrote: > >>> > >>> Are you sure? I'm pretty sure I have at least a couple of apps I > >>> built in > >>> 8 that still use the hack. > >>> > >>> On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 3:54 PM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode < > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >>> > >>>> It looks like the plist hack is not available in version 8. > >>>> > >>>> Choosing background audio works - but that means I need to have a > >>>> plausible reason for having background audio or Apple reviewers > >>>> might ding the app. > >>>> > >>>> What a pain - why not just allow it to work the way other apps work? > >>>> > >>>> Sent from my iPhone > >>>> > >>>>> On May 24, 2017, at 3:43 PM, jonathandlynch at gmail.com wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> Thank you! > >>>>> > >>>>> Sent from my iPhone > >>>>> > >>>>>> On May 24, 2017, at 3:34 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < > >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> If you're referring to ios, look up "plist hack", here. The > >>>>>> only thing > >>>> to > >>>>>> remember is that for each version of LC, you have to perform > >>>>>> the hack, again, until Edinburgh gives us a Standalone Settings option. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 3:22 PM, Jonathan Lynch via > >>>>>> use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> Having to restart the app from scratch sucks. I can store the > >>>>>>> current state, but my users would have to wait for the map > >>>>>>> widget to reload > >>>> every > >>>>>>> time they came back from another app. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list > >>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage > >>>>>>> your subscription preferences: > >>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -- > >>>>>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the > >>>>>> second day, God created the oceans. > >>>>>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > >>>>>> and did a little diving. > >>>>>> And God said, "This is good." > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> use-livecode mailing list > >>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >>>> subscription preferences: > >>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> use-livecode mailing list > >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >>>> subscription preferences: > >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the > >>> second day, God created the oceans. > >>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > >>> and did a little diving. > >>> And God said, "This is good." > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> use-livecode mailing list > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription > > preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ahsoftware at sonic.net Thu May 25 19:01:29 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 16:01:29 -0700 Subject: Funny pricing policy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 05/25/2017 02:12 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > OK, you gotta tell me which private developer tool companies have free > admission to their conferences, so I can attend one and learn something > new. I just looked at 4D, Apple, FMP, Google, and Zoho's conference sites, > and all were charging for admission. Talk videos are usually posted *after* the conference. etc. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From jeff at siphonophore.com Thu May 25 20:12:35 2017 From: jeff at siphonophore.com (Jeff Reynolds) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 20:12:35 -0400 Subject: mac/win codecs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5CEBDB66-865D-493E-82B2-67F4EA440378@siphonophore.com> Doh! should have used a quick google search, found it! sorry for the bother. jeff > On May 25, 2017, at 3:19 PM, Jeff Reynolds wrote: > > I was trying to find the page i had last fall that had the current codecs supported on windows under livecode 7. Cant find anything now on the current livecode site on the codecs supported or the video api used. Can anyone point me to where the info is for lc 7.1? > > thanks > > jeff > From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Thu May 25 20:48:15 2017 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 20:48:15 -0400 Subject: FTP from iOS but getting tsneterr: (67) Access denied: 530 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <004901d2d5b9$c2d71fb0$48855f10$@net> John, This works for me. put MyVar into url ("ftp://FTPusername:FTPpassword at mydomain.on-rev.com/somepath/somefile.ext") I looks like your using your email address for the username. Create an FTP account in cPanel FTP setup. Don't use the built in one or someone could sniff the password to your on-rev account. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of JOHN PATTEN via use-livecode Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2017 6:33 PM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: JOHN PATTEN Subject: FTP from iOS but getting tsneterr: (67) Access denied: 530 Hi All, I?m trying to ftp and image from the photo gallery on iOS to my on-rev account. I?m using the example: ------------ on mouseUp mobilepickphoto ?library" --upload to FTP put the last image into url ("ftp://autoimage at jdoe.on-rev.com:xxxxxxxxx at jdoe.on-rev.com/autoimage/images/newimage.jpg?) --Informs of successful or unsuccessful upload if the result is not empty then answer "url put failed:" && the result else answer "success!? end if end mouseUp ?????? It is throwing and an error, tsnetterr:(67) Access Denied: 530. I can use Fetch (a mac FTP client) just fine with the same credentials and upload an image with no problem. I don?t even have to give Fetch the full ftp directory, just the host. What am I missing? Thank you! John Patten SUSD _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu May 25 21:09:46 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 18:09:46 -0700 Subject: FTP from iOS but getting tsneterr: (67) Access denied: 530 In-Reply-To: <004901d2d5b9$c2d71fb0$48855f10$@net> References: <004901d2d5b9$c2d71fb0$48855f10$@net> Message-ID: <7581c047-048f-7681-eb4a-64789d602e6e@fourthworld.com> Ralph DiMola wrote: > This works for me. > > put MyVar into url ("ftp://FTPusername:FTPpassword at mydomain.on-rev.com/somepath/somefile.ext") Would that be "ftps://..."? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Thu May 25 21:23:53 2017 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 21:23:53 -0400 Subject: English Like? Message-ID: Were would you use "box" as a synonym (if it were one)? Is it the same as "rectangle" or "ask/answer". End users often tell me, "a box popped up on my screen.", not a prompt, or a message. Next, they proceed to tell me what it said. ME: "You're telling me, there was a _talking box_ on your screen?". ~Roger On May 24, 2017 5:49 PM, "Mark Wieder via use-livecode" < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: On 05/24/2017 05:43 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > One of the other things that the xtalk languages have that makes them more > appealing is synonyms > -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From charles at techstrategies.com.au Thu May 25 21:36:24 2017 From: charles at techstrategies.com.au (Charles Warwick) Date: Fri, 26 May 2017 11:36:24 +1000 Subject: FTP from iOS but getting tsneterr: (67) Access denied: 530 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: B3DDDBFC-5ECD-47F5-A24C-EB761607A660.goodhumans@emailganizer.goodhumans.com Hi John, Certain characters in usernames and passwords need to be URL encoded if you want to include them in a URL string. The @ character is one of them. Try something like his: put urlencode("autoimage at jdoe.on-rev.com") into tUser put urlencode("xxxxx") into tPass put the last image into URL ("ftp://"&tUser&":"&tPass&"@jdoe.on-rev.com/autoimage/images/newimage.jpg?) Cheers, Charles -- Sent from my iPhone On 26 May 2017 at 08:32:55 AEST, JOHN PATTEN via use-livecode wrote: Hi All, I?m trying to ftp and image from the photo gallery on iOS to my on-rev account. I?m using the example: ------------ on mouseUp mobilepickphoto ?library" --upload to FTP put the last image into url ("ftp://autoimage at jdoe.on-rev.com:xxxxxxxxx at jdoe.on-rev.com/autoimage/images/newimage.jpg?) --Informs of successful or unsuccessful upload if the result is not empty then answer "url put failed:" && the result else answer "success!? end if end mouseUp ?????? It is throwing and an error, tsnetterr:(67) Access Denied: 530. I can use Fetch (a mac FTP client) just fine with the same credentials and upload an image with no problem. I don?t even have to give Fetch the full ftp directory, just the host. What am I missing? Thank you! John Patten SUSD _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Thu May 25 21:40:34 2017 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 21:40:34 -0400 Subject: English Like? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! I understand that inside the Colonies, the punctuation goes inside the quotation marks, and outside the Colonies, the punctuation goes outside the quotation marks. Just because this thread is being read and replied to from both inside and outside the Colonies does not give you the right to put the punctuation in both places. You, Sir, are guilty of the worst foible of all. You may not have it both ways. On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 9:23 PM, Roger Eller via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Were would you use "box" as a synonym (if it were one)? Is it the same as > "rectangle" or "ask/answer". End users often tell me, "a box popped up on > my screen.", not a prompt, or a message. Next, they proceed to tell me > what it said. > > ME: "You're telling me, there was a _talking box_ on your screen?". > > ~Roger > > On May 24, 2017 5:49 PM, "Mark Wieder via use-livecode" < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > On 05/24/2017 05:43 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > > > One of the other things that the xtalk languages have that makes them > more > > appealing is synonyms > > > > > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From sundown at pacifier.com Thu May 25 21:58:17 2017 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 18:58:17 -0700 Subject: Writing Extensions In-Reply-To: References: <2781a3812a983f52562d3e094f82a64e@livecode.com> <8A53907F-8AC3-4A47-9DD1-EA205FB0EBE8@pacifier.com> Message-ID: Here is the Java code to test args; public class Arguments { public static void main(String[] args) { for(int i = 0; i < args.length; i++) { System.out.println(args[i]); } } } After it has been compiled as Arguments.class you can call it in liveCode like this: on mouseUp put "Drink" into arg1 put "Hot" into arg2 put "Java" into arg3 put "/Users/THEUSER/Desktop/" & return & "java Arguments"into pFilePath put "java Arguments" into pFileName put shell( "cd" && pFilePath & return & pFileName) && arg1 && arg2 && arg3 into fld id YOURFIELD beep 2 end mouseUp JB > On May 17, 2017, at 2:49 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > > On 05/17/2017 02:30 PM, JB via use-livecode wrote: >> It looks to me like a the easier stepping >> stone to fill the gap is just write the code >> in C/C++, compile it and call it using a >> shell coimmand. > > Is that working for you in Android apps? > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From ahsoftware at sonic.net Thu May 25 22:45:06 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 19:45:06 -0700 Subject: Writing Extensions In-Reply-To: References: <2781a3812a983f52562d3e094f82a64e@livecode.com> <8A53907F-8AC3-4A47-9DD1-EA205FB0EBE8@pacifier.com> Message-ID: <954d1df2-5eab-498a-4dd0-e7421e4db7f7@sonic.net> On 05/25/2017 06:58 PM, JB via use-livecode wrote: > After it has been compiled as Arguments.class you > can call it in liveCode like this: > > on mouseUp > put "Drink" into arg1 > put "Hot" into arg2 > put "Java" into arg3 > put "/Users/THEUSER/Desktop/" & return & "java Arguments"into pFilePath > put "java Arguments" into pFileName > put shell( "cd" && pFilePath & return & pFileName) && arg1 && arg2 && arg3 into fld id YOURFIELD > beep 2 > end mouseUp Interesting. Why do you call it twice? And shouldn't you be passing the arguments to the java program? put "~/Desktop" into pFilePath put "java Arguments" into pFileName put shell( "cd" && pFilePath & return & pFileName && arg1 && arg2 && arg3) into fld id YOURFIELD -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From sundown at pacifier.com Thu May 25 23:07:13 2017 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 20:07:13 -0700 Subject: Writing Extensions In-Reply-To: <954d1df2-5eab-498a-4dd0-e7421e4db7f7@sonic.net> References: <2781a3812a983f52562d3e094f82a64e@livecode.com> <8A53907F-8AC3-4A47-9DD1-EA205FB0EBE8@pacifier.com> <954d1df2-5eab-498a-4dd0-e7421e4db7f7@sonic.net> Message-ID: Hi Mark, Your way is much better! I just started learning Java a few days ago so the reason I did it wrong was because I did not know what I was doing. THANK YOU! JB > On May 25, 2017, at 7:45 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > > On 05/25/2017 06:58 PM, JB via use-livecode wrote: > >> After it has been compiled as Arguments.class you >> can call it in liveCode like this: >> on mouseUp >> put "Drink" into arg1 >> put "Hot" into arg2 >> put "Java" into arg3 >> put "/Users/THEUSER/Desktop/" & return & "java Arguments"into pFilePath >> put "java Arguments" into pFileName >> put shell( "cd" && pFilePath & return & pFileName) && arg1 && arg2 && arg3 into fld id YOURFIELD >> beep 2 >> end mouseUp > > Interesting. Why do you call it twice? > And shouldn't you be passing the arguments to the java program? > > put "~/Desktop" into pFilePath > put "java Arguments" into pFileName > put shell( "cd" && pFilePath & return & pFileName && arg1 && arg2 && arg3) into fld id YOURFIELD > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From ahsoftware at sonic.net Fri May 26 02:51:55 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 23:51:55 -0700 Subject: Writing Extensions In-Reply-To: References: <2781a3812a983f52562d3e094f82a64e@livecode.com> <8A53907F-8AC3-4A47-9DD1-EA205FB0EBE8@pacifier.com> <954d1df2-5eab-498a-4dd0-e7421e4db7f7@sonic.net> Message-ID: On 05/25/2017 08:07 PM, JB via use-livecode wrote: > Hi Mark, > > Your way is much better! > > I just started learning Java a few > days ago so the reason I did it > wrong was because I did not > know what I was doing. > > THANK YOU! Nothing wrong with your java code. Your LC script was calling the java app without passing the arguments to it, and then printing the arguments, so it looked like everything was working. Try changing the java code to this to see the difference: System.out.println(args[i] + " is arg " + (i+1)); -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From heather at livecode.com Fri May 26 06:18:18 2017 From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine) Date: Fri, 26 May 2017 11:18:18 +0100 Subject: Funny pricing policy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6A97E4A6-D0DB-4580-ABD4-346DE8C6D003@livecode.com> Folks, sorry for any confusion. The free t-shirt is a reward for taking the survey. We thought it would be a nice little extra surprise. However if you took the survey and already purchased a t-shirt with your LiveCode Global ticket, just let us know and we'll give you a coupon to the value. Or an extra t-shirt, free :). Note that the coupon for your free t is time limited, it expires on 30th May. Best regards, Heather Heather Laine Customer Services Manager LiveCode Ltd www.livecode.com > On 25 May 2017, at 17:02, hh via use-livecode wrote: > >> Mike K. wrote: >> Or, you can email support and magically get the discount applied, >> retroactively. > > That's even a bit more funny. > Email support after each new discount to get the discount applied, > retroactively? Why not the future discounts? > > ;-) > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Fri May 26 06:42:19 2017 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Fri, 26 May 2017 06:42:19 -0400 Subject: English Like? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I do not profess to be a professor of English, Mike. I must say though, I have never felt felt that felt as soft as the felt at Mr. Felt's felt factory. On May 25, 2017 9:41 PM, "Mike Kerner via use-livecode" < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! > I understand that inside the Colonies, the punctuation goes inside the > quotation marks, and outside the Colonies, the punctuation goes outside the > quotation marks. Just because this thread is being read and replied to > from both inside and outside the Colonies does not give you the right to > put the punctuation in both places. You, Sir, are guilty of the worst > foible of all. You may not have it both ways. > > On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 9:23 PM, Roger Eller via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > Were would you use "box" as a synonym (if it were one)? Is it the same > as > > "rectangle" or "ask/answer". End users often tell me, "a box popped up > on > > my screen.", not a prompt, or a message. Next, they proceed to tell me > > what it said. > > > > ME: "You're telling me, there was a _talking box_ on your screen?". > > > > ~Roger > > > > On May 24, 2017 5:49 PM, "Mark Wieder via use-livecode" < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > On 05/24/2017 05:43 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > > > > > One of the other things that the xtalk languages have that makes them > > more > > > appealing is synonyms > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Mark Wieder > > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Fri May 26 06:58:45 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Fri, 26 May 2017 13:58:45 +0300 Subject: Funny pricing policy In-Reply-To: <6A97E4A6-D0DB-4580-ABD4-346DE8C6D003@livecode.com> References: <6A97E4A6-D0DB-4580-ABD4-346DE8C6D003@livecode.com> Message-ID: <64da94af-124a-f45c-e961-8ed7dd022eb9@gmail.com> Ah: so as I took the survey, but am not signing up for the conference I should be getting a T-shirt . . . . Richmond. On 5/26/17 1:18 pm, Heather Laine via use-livecode wrote: > Folks, sorry for any confusion. The free t-shirt is a reward for taking the survey. We thought it would be a nice little extra surprise. However if you took the survey and already purchased a t-shirt with your LiveCode Global ticket, just let us know and we'll give you a coupon to the value. Or an extra t-shirt, free :). Note that the coupon for your free t is time limited, it expires on 30th May. > > Best regards, > > Heather > > Heather Laine > Customer Services Manager > LiveCode Ltd > www.livecode.com > > > >> On 25 May 2017, at 17:02, hh via use-livecode wrote: >> >>> Mike K. wrote: >>> Or, you can email support and magically get the discount applied, >>> retroactively. >> That's even a bit more funny. >> Email support after each new discount to get the discount applied, >> retroactively? Why not the future discounts? >> >> ;-) >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mark at livecode.com Fri May 26 07:02:25 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Fri, 26 May 2017 13:02:25 +0200 Subject: Funny pricing policy In-Reply-To: <64da94af-124a-f45c-e961-8ed7dd022eb9@gmail.com> References: <6A97E4A6-D0DB-4580-ABD4-346DE8C6D003@livecode.com> <64da94af-124a-f45c-e961-8ed7dd022eb9@gmail.com> Message-ID: <456fcbd397e8c4f9ebef037dd137395e@livecode.com> On 2017-05-26 12:58, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: > Ah: so as I took the survey, but am not signing up for the conference > I should be getting a T-shirt . . . . No - if you took the survey, then you get a coupon giving you a free t-shirt *if* you sign up for the conference. If you just took the survey, and do not sign up, you'll still be entered into the gift voucher prize draw. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Fri May 26 07:03:14 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Fri, 26 May 2017 14:03:14 +0300 Subject: English Like? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <15cbf777-3e9d-ec73-2622-59f3464f076a@gmail.com> "The Colonies" . . . err . . . Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, the Falklands, Gibraltar and St. Helena . . . Or do you mean the erstwhile colonies? And how erstwhile do you mean? The North American Colonies . . . um. As LiveCode is made in a current English Colony (Scotland) but seems to adhere to English usage according to an erstwhile colony (USA), somewhere, somehow this argument doesn't hold water at all. Probably what is needed is a colonoscopy. Richmond. On 5/26/17 1:42 pm, Roger Eller via use-livecode wrote: > I do not profess to be a professor of English, Mike. I must say though, I > have never felt felt that felt as soft as the felt at Mr. Felt's felt > factory. > > On May 25, 2017 9:41 PM, "Mike Kerner via use-livecode" < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! >> I understand that inside the Colonies, the punctuation goes inside the >> quotation marks, and outside the Colonies, the punctuation goes outside the >> quotation marks. Just because this thread is being read and replied to >> from both inside and outside the Colonies does not give you the right to >> put the punctuation in both places. You, Sir, are guilty of the worst >> foible of all. You may not have it both ways. >> >> On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 9:23 PM, Roger Eller via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >>> Were would you use "box" as a synonym (if it were one)? Is it the same >> as >>> "rectangle" or "ask/answer". End users often tell me, "a box popped up >> on >>> my screen.", not a prompt, or a message. Next, they proceed to tell me >>> what it said. >>> >>> ME: "You're telling me, there was a _talking box_ on your screen?". >>> >>> ~Roger >>> >>> On May 24, 2017 5:49 PM, "Mark Wieder via use-livecode" < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> >>> On 05/24/2017 05:43 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>>> One of the other things that the xtalk languages have that makes them >>> more >>>> appealing is synonyms >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Mark Wieder >>> ahsoftware at gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> >> -- >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >> On the second day, God created the oceans. >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >> and did a little diving. >> And God said, "This is good." >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Fri May 26 07:03:59 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Fri, 26 May 2017 14:03:59 +0300 Subject: Funny pricing policy In-Reply-To: <456fcbd397e8c4f9ebef037dd137395e@livecode.com> References: <6A97E4A6-D0DB-4580-ABD4-346DE8C6D003@livecode.com> <64da94af-124a-f45c-e961-8ed7dd022eb9@gmail.com> <456fcbd397e8c4f9ebef037dd137395e@livecode.com> Message-ID: Ah, Well, it was worth a try :) Richmond. On 5/26/17 2:02 pm, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: > On 2017-05-26 12:58, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: >> Ah: so as I took the survey, but am not signing up for the conference >> I should be getting a T-shirt . . . . > > No - if you took the survey, then you get a coupon giving you a free > t-shirt *if* > you sign up for the conference. > > If you just took the survey, and do not sign up, you'll still be > entered into > the gift voucher prize draw. > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > From mark at livecode.com Fri May 26 07:09:04 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Fri, 26 May 2017 13:09:04 +0200 Subject: Is there any way at all to have a mobile app simply resume rather than =?UTF-8?Q?restart=3F?= In-Reply-To: References: <9AF7F586-BD6F-45E2-8167-FB62A876B5EB@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 2017-05-24 21:34, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: > If you're referring to ios, look up "plist hack", here. The only thing > to > remember is that for each version of LC, you have to perform the hack, > again, until Edinburgh gives us a Standalone Settings option. Like this: https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/5515 Alex is also working on adding all the options for 'background execution' too. Both of these should appear in the next 9 DP (7), which will appear when we've finally got everything working again (after updating Skia, toolchains etc.) - the latter has been causing us significant headaches for quite a while... Warmest Regards, Mark. P.S. Yes it took a long time to add this - a slight case of ball-dropping amongst a vast variety of other things! -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From ludovic.thebault at laposte.net Fri May 26 07:28:01 2017 From: ludovic.thebault at laposte.net (Ludovic THEBAULT) Date: Fri, 26 May 2017 13:28:01 +0200 Subject: Pinch and zoom images with the widget browser ? Message-ID: <8221018C-3F9A-468A-8EAC-2B4CB83858A5@laposte.net> Hello, It is possible to pinch and zoom ? natively ? images with the widget browser as it is possible to do it with the ? classic ? browser : http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=11229 I?ve tried with the url of the picture but nothing is displayed on the web page, of with an basic html page but pinch and zoom doesn?t work. Thanks ! Ludovic From hh at hyperhh.de Fri May 26 07:56:12 2017 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Fri, 26 May 2017 13:56:12 +0200 Subject: Funny pricing policy Message-ID: It is exactly as funny as I said, no confusion: If you purchased the ticket before the first discount, didn't buy a T-shirt for 100%, and took the survey after that all, you get no discount. But you get an extra email that you get a free T-shirt if you sign up (now) for the conference. What a logic! I booked very early but I'm no longer interested in the conference, to watch speakers in T-shirts after such a pricing policy. No thank you. Richmond, I'll donate you my ticket, for free. No fun. Write to support, you should get also a free T-shirt now. Because 'your ticket' now answered the survey twice... Hermann. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Fri May 26 10:20:37 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Fri, 26 May 2017 17:20:37 +0300 Subject: Funny pricing policy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6c546fc1-e544-cadc-5ecc-5215f03b6d95@gmail.com> Well, this is very kind of you, although I do feel rather "funny" about the whole thing. I was donated something else a while back in a similar sort of 'rebound' reaction, and have obviously become even more the court jester than I ever intended to be. The only reason that I would consider accepting the T-shirt (if it is, indeed, available) is that it might do some good were I to wear it when teaching my summer LiveCode classes in June-July. "to watch speakers in T-shirts" Well, frankly I'd much prefer to watch speakers in T-shirts than speakers without T-shirts as topless programming does not really excite me (although, admittedly, in the hot summer weather I have been known to do some LiveCode programming in just my underpants in the privacy of my own room). Richmond. On 5/26/17 2:56 pm, hh via use-livecode wrote: > It is exactly as funny as I said, no confusion: > > If you purchased the ticket before the first discount, didn't buy a T-shirt for 100%, and took the survey after that all, you get no discount. > But you get an extra email that you get a free T-shirt if you sign up (now) for the conference. What a logic! > > I booked very early but I'm no longer interested in the conference, to watch speakers in T-shirts after such a pricing policy. No thank you. > > Richmond, I'll donate you my ticket, for free. No fun. Write to support, you should get also a free T-shirt now. Because 'your ticket' now answered the survey twice... > > Hermann. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From hh at hyperhh.de Fri May 26 10:44:21 2017 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Fri, 26 May 2017 16:44:21 +0200 Subject: Funny pricing policy Message-ID: <4DDA95BA-F21C-4C79-9124-0BBE559FE1C8@hyperhh.de> > Richmond M. wrote > ... become even more the court jester than I ever intended to be ... Court jesters were, from my point of view, always very influent and honoured people. A nobody was ever able to make a fool out of them. But I'm sorry about having written my 'donation' in public and not asking you before that, was not polite, sorry for that. I already wrote to support, so I'll write a second time, donate to another person. From jonathandlynch at gmail.com Fri May 26 10:56:25 2017 From: jonathandlynch at gmail.com (Jonathan Lynch) Date: Fri, 26 May 2017 10:56:25 -0400 Subject: Does MobileSensorReading work? Message-ID: I put a button on my app and put the app on my iPhone. The button had the following script: on mouseUp put MobileSensorReading("location",true) into tReading answer the Keys of tReading answer tReading end mouseUp I figured this would tell me if the function was supposed to return an array or a variable, since I had read both online. Interestingly, it returned empty for both. -- Do all things with love From DixonJA at hotmail.co.uk Fri May 26 11:10:11 2017 From: DixonJA at hotmail.co.uk (John Dixon) Date: Fri, 26 May 2017 15:10:11 +0000 Subject: Does MobileSensorReading work? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You must start the 'sensor' first... usually done in your openStack handler... as in :- on openStack if environment() = "mobile" then mobileStartTrackingSensor "location", false end if end openStack on locationChanged latitude, longitude set the theCurrentLocation of this stack to latitude & comma & longitude end locationChanged then as your location changes, the locationChanged message will give you the new lat/long ? Dixie ________________________________ From: use-livecode on behalf of Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode Sent: 26 May 2017 15:56 To: How to use LiveCode Cc: Jonathan Lynch Subject: Does MobileSensorReading work? I put a button on my app and put the app on my iPhone. The button had the following script: on mouseUp put MobileSensorReading("location",true) into tReading answer the Keys of tReading answer tReading end mouseUp I figured this would tell me if the function was supposed to return an array or a variable, since I had read both online. Interestingly, it returned empty for both. -- Do all things with love _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode Runtime Revolution - use-livecode Mailing List lists.runrev.com This mailing list is intended for discussion relating to using LiveCode. To see the collection of prior postings to the list, visit the use-livecode Archives From heather at livecode.com Fri May 26 11:17:38 2017 From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine) Date: Fri, 26 May 2017 16:17:38 +0100 Subject: Funny pricing policy In-Reply-To: <4DDA95BA-F21C-4C79-9124-0BBE559FE1C8@hyperhh.de> References: <4DDA95BA-F21C-4C79-9124-0BBE559FE1C8@hyperhh.de> Message-ID: <04C4D94A-7E65-407F-9EE6-AB9071ED377B@livecode.com> Dear Hermann (and Richmond), I've responded to your email to support, I trust we can resolve all this amicably and become friends again. I have now added a note to the survey page to say that if you purchased a conference ticket already, and want your free tshirt, just email us. We should of course have thought of doing this at the time, but hindsight is 20/20. Richmond... the image you have painted in my mind of the entire team doing their presentations topless is going to take a while to erase from my mind... Warm Regards, Heather Heather Laine Customer Services Manager LiveCode Ltd www.livecode.com > On 26 May 2017, at 15:44, hh via use-livecode wrote: > >> Richmond M. wrote >> ... become even more the court jester than I ever intended to be ... > > Court jesters were, from my point of view, always very influent and honoured people. > A nobody was ever able to make a fool out of them. > > But I'm sorry about having written my 'donation' in public and not asking you before that, was not polite, sorry for that. > > I already wrote to support, so I'll write a second time, donate to another person. > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jonathandlynch at gmail.com Fri May 26 11:30:21 2017 From: jonathandlynch at gmail.com (jonathandlynch at gmail.com) Date: Fri, 26 May 2017 11:30:21 -0400 Subject: Does MobileSensorReading work? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Never mind - I see It works after you turn on mobileSensorStartTracking, and appears to return an array on my device Sent from my iPhone > On May 26, 2017, at 10:56 AM, Jonathan Lynch wrote: > > > I put a button on my app and put the app on my iPhone. > > The button had the following script: > > > on mouseUp > > put MobileSensorReading("location",true) into tReading > > answer the Keys of tReading > > answer tReading > > end mouseUp > > > I figured this would tell me if the function was supposed to return an array or a variable, since I had read both online. > > Interestingly, it returned empty for both. > > > > -- > Do all things with love From jonathandlynch at gmail.com Fri May 26 11:32:11 2017 From: jonathandlynch at gmail.com (jonathandlynch at gmail.com) Date: Fri, 26 May 2017 11:32:11 -0400 Subject: Is there any way at all to have a mobile app simply resume rather than restart? In-Reply-To: <004501d2d5a8$8cdfe0b0$a69fa210$@net> References: <9AF7F586-BD6F-45E2-8167-FB62A876B5EB@gmail.com> <00b301d2d4d3$2e274840$8a75d8c0$@net> <376308F6-EA5E-4CF0-913F-22BDE426F00D@gmail.com> <004501d2d5a8$8cdfe0b0$a69fa210$@net> Message-ID: <1A536D5C-C360-443B-BBCE-698D31321E8A@gmail.com> Hi Ralph, It is working just fine. Thanks! Sent from my iPhone > On May 25, 2017, at 6:45 PM, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode wrote: > > It works for me on OSX 10.11.6 > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf > Of Mike Kerner via use-livecode > Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 10:04 PM > To: How to use LiveCode > Cc: Mike Kerner > Subject: Re: Is there any way at all to have a mobile app simply resume > rather than restart? > > I'm pretty sure you can't do it while it's still in the applications folder. > You have to command-drag it out of the applications folder, first, before > you modify it - at least I do, anyway. > > On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 5:57 PM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> This is great Ralph >> >> Thank you >> >> I wonder if this can open up other possibilities as well >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On May 24, 2017, at 5:17 PM, Ralph DiMola >>> >> wrote: >>> >>> 1) Go to the Applications folder >>> 2) Right click on the LC app you are using and select "Show Package >>> Contents" >>> 3) Navigate to the "Tools/Runtime/iOS" folder >>> 4) Right click on all the device/simulator folders one at a time and >> select >>> "Get Info" >>> 5) At the bottom click on the "Read only" to the right of your >>> account >> name >>> and select "Read & Write" >>> 6) Repeat 5 for all device/simulator folders >>> 7) In each of the device/simulator folders edit the setting.plist file. >>> 8) To edit... right click the setting.plist file and select "Open With" >> and >>> then "Other..." and select "TextEdit.app". >>> 9) You will get a warning that the file is locked. Choose the Unlock >> option. >>> >>> 10) Either change UIApplicationExitsOnSuspend key value to "False" >>> or >> like I >>> do delete the key all together(2 lines) >>> 11) repeat 8-10 for setting.plist in each of the device/simulator >> folders. >>> 12) Fire up LC and make an iOS app. >>> >>> Ralph DiMola >>> IT Director >>> Evergreen Information Services >>> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On >> Behalf >>> Of Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode >>> Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 4:37 PM >>> To: How to use LiveCode >>> Cc: jonathandlynch at gmail.com >>> Subject: Re: Is there any way at all to have a mobile app simply >>> resume rather than restart? >>> >>> I don't actually know how to do any of the steps for this - would be >> easy on >>> a pc. Researching it now. >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On May 24, 2017, at 4:27 PM, jonathandlynch at gmail.com wrote: >>>> >>>> I read that on the forums, but I defer to Ralph on this. >>>> >>>> I am playing with the hack now. >>>> >>>> I think I could also have a legitimate reason for playing audio - >> changing >>> the music as a user gets closer to a marker - but that would be a >>> lot of trouble to set up right now. >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On May 24, 2017, at 4:07 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode >>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Are you sure? I'm pretty sure I have at least a couple of apps I >>>>> built in >>>>> 8 that still use the hack. >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 3:54 PM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode < >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> It looks like the plist hack is not available in version 8. >>>>>> >>>>>> Choosing background audio works - but that means I need to have a >>>>>> plausible reason for having background audio or Apple reviewers >>>>>> might ding the app. >>>>>> >>>>>> What a pain - why not just allow it to work the way other apps work? >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>>> On May 24, 2017, at 3:43 PM, jonathandlynch at gmail.com wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On May 24, 2017, at 3:34 PM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < >>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If you're referring to ios, look up "plist hack", here. The >>>>>>>> only thing >>>>>> to >>>>>>>> remember is that for each version of LC, you have to perform >>>>>>>> the hack, again, until Edinburgh gives us a Standalone Settings > option. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 3:22 PM, Jonathan Lynch via >>>>>>>> use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Having to restart the app from scratch sucks. I can store the >>>>>>>>> current state, but my users would have to wait for the map >>>>>>>>> widget to reload >>>>>> every >>>>>>>>> time they came back from another app. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage >>>>>>>>> your subscription preferences: >>>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the >>>>>>>> second day, God created the oceans. >>>>>>>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >>>>>>>> and did a little diving. >>>>>>>> And God said, "This is good." >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the >>>>> second day, God created the oceans. >>>>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >>>>> and did a little diving. >>>>> And God said, "This is good." >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription >>> preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, > God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From johnpatten at me.com Fri May 26 11:39:42 2017 From: johnpatten at me.com (JOHN PATTEN) Date: Fri, 26 May 2017 08:39:42 -0700 Subject: Uploading Image - Livecode Tutorial Example? Sessions? Message-ID: <26EBAD95-7C49-42F3-ACC3-1660B095E304@me.com> Hello! Thanks for those that answered about the problem I was having with FTP. It was the URLEncode issue that was tripping me up. However, I?m changing gears as I hadn?t realized that I could not ftp directly into a htmlpublic directory on On-Rev. Ultimately I am trying to just create a little iOS app that will allow me upload and image and create a simple html page to display the image. I have been using the LiveCode tutorial here: ?How do I use LiveCode graphics features server-side?? (http://lessons.livecode.com/m/15262/l/156710-how-do-i-use-livecode-graphics-features-server-side ) I can?t get this to work the ?start session? included in the script? The example starts: --------------- Dan Brown wrote: > Developer conferences nowadays are more often than not available > online, for free http://pyvideo.org and are utilised to showcase ideas > and concepts to a wider audience. They're a great marketing asset, > especially keynotes FWIW I requested that my Community session for the LiveCode online conference be made publicly available for free, and they have supported that request. Everything I volunteer for with the LiveCode Community is for the benefit of everyone, those who might enjoy learning about LiveCode and those who benefit from growing the platform. One thing worth noting about PyCon and many other conferences for open source platforms is that those are community efforts, organized by and for the community. Bj?rnke von Gierke used to run a weekly series of video conferences called LiveCode TV. Todd Fabacher has run several live webinars, and he and others have expressed an interest in making those a regular thing. With Google On Air freely available for everyone (Mac, Windows, Linux), the tools to making and sharing live presentations have only gotten better. -- Richard Gaskin LiveCode Community Liaison richard at livecode.org From johnpatten at me.com Fri May 26 12:15:59 2017 From: johnpatten at me.com (JOHN PATTEN) Date: Fri, 26 May 2017 09:15:59 -0700 Subject: Uploading Image - Livecode Tutorial Example? Sessions? In-Reply-To: <26EBAD95-7C49-42F3-ACC3-1660B095E304@me.com> References: <26EBAD95-7C49-42F3-ACC3-1660B095E304@me.com> Message-ID: <7B8C11F5-0005-4F01-A61D-1A28CF807069@me.com> I think I figured out the issue based on an old post by Sturgis? Apparently you have to set the sessionSavePath before you call the ?start session.? set the sessionSavePath to the defaultfolder Forum discussion here: http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=10787&p=50056&hilit=session#p50034 Cheers! > On May 26, 2017, at 8:39 AM, JOHN PATTEN via use-livecode wrote: > > Hello! > > Thanks for those that answered about the problem I was having with FTP. It was the URLEncode issue that was tripping me up. > > However, I?m changing gears as I hadn?t realized that I could not ftp directly into a htmlpublic directory on On-Rev. Ultimately I am trying to just create a little iOS app that will allow me upload and image and create a simple html page to display the image. > > I have been using the LiveCode tutorial here: ?How do I use LiveCode graphics features server-side?? (http://lessons.livecode.com/m/15262/l/156710-how-do-i-use-livecode-graphics-features-server-side ) > > I can?t get this to work the ?start session? included in the script? > > The example starts: > --------------- > start session > ## enter the image file into our $_SESSION if one's just been uploaded > if $_FILES["imagefile"] is not empty then > put url("binfile:" & $_FILES["imagefile"]["filename"]) into $_SESSION["imagedata"] > end if > if $_SESSION["imagedata"] is empty then > printForm ## no image has been uploaded so display the form to upload one > else > create image ?myImage? ? > > ???????? > > If I take the ?start session? out, the server script works, sort of?as I think it will upload the image, but because there is no session, you can?t manipulate the image. > > Has anybody got this example to work? I have tried moving the ?start session? around to different areas of the server script, but that does not seem to work either. > > Thank you! > John Patten > SUSD > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From chipsm at themartinz.com Fri May 26 12:16:26 2017 From: chipsm at themartinz.com (** Clarence P Martin **) Date: Fri, 26 May 2017 09:16:26 -0700 Subject: Funny pricing policy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <03fd01d2d63b$6d6a1910$483e4b30$@themartinz.com> Here, Here Richard! Sincerely, Clarence Martin Email: chipsm at themartinz.com Cell: 626 6965561 -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Richard Gaskin via use-livecode Sent: Friday, May 26, 2017 9:02 AM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: Richard Gaskin Subject: Re: Funny pricing policy Dan Brown wrote: > Developer conferences nowadays are more often than not available > online, for free http://pyvideo.org and are utilised to showcase ideas > and concepts to a wider audience. They're a great marketing asset, > especially keynotes FWIW I requested that my Community session for the LiveCode online conference be made publicly available for free, and they have supported that request. Everything I volunteer for with the LiveCode Community is for the benefit of everyone, those who might enjoy learning about LiveCode and those who benefit from growing the platform. One thing worth noting about PyCon and many other conferences for open source platforms is that those are community efforts, organized by and for the community. Bj?rnke von Gierke used to run a weekly series of video conferences called LiveCode TV. Todd Fabacher has run several live webinars, and he and others have expressed an interest in making those a regular thing. With Google On Air freely available for everyone (Mac, Windows, Linux), the tools to making and sharing live presentations have only gotten better. -- Richard Gaskin LiveCode Community Liaison richard at livecode.org _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From chipsm at themartinz.com Fri May 26 12:21:48 2017 From: chipsm at themartinz.com (** Clarence P Martin **) Date: Fri, 26 May 2017 09:21:48 -0700 Subject: Funny pricing policy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <03ff01d2d63c$2cc8baa0$865a2fe0$@themartinz.com> The one thing that makes an application development that is great is the userbase. I enjoy the "use LiveCode" and the "LiveCode forum" because of the great questions and the even greater response from users to help each other. I use both tools on a regular basis. We have a society that has fallen into a selfish mode -and thankfully not the Livecode community. Sincerely, Clarence Martin Email: chipsm at themartinz.com Cell: 626 6965561 -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Richard Gaskin via use-livecode Sent: Friday, May 26, 2017 9:02 AM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: Richard Gaskin Subject: Re: Funny pricing policy Dan Brown wrote: > Developer conferences nowadays are more often than not available > online, for free http://pyvideo.org and are utilised to showcase ideas > and concepts to a wider audience. They're a great marketing asset, > especially keynotes FWIW I requested that my Community session for the LiveCode online conference be made publicly available for free, and they have supported that request. Everything I volunteer for with the LiveCode Community is for the benefit of everyone, those who might enjoy learning about LiveCode and those who benefit from growing the platform. One thing worth noting about PyCon and many other conferences for open source platforms is that those are community efforts, organized by and for the community. Bj?rnke von Gierke used to run a weekly series of video conferences called LiveCode TV. Todd Fabacher has run several live webinars, and he and others have expressed an interest in making those a regular thing. With Google On Air freely available for everyone (Mac, Windows, Linux), the tools to making and sharing live presentations have only gotten better. -- Richard Gaskin LiveCode Community Liaison richard at livecode.org _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From devin_asay at byu.edu Fri May 26 12:29:40 2017 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Fri, 26 May 2017 16:29:40 +0000 Subject: Does MobileSensorReading work? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1B0DC8F1-1014-4564-88B7-AA222BAE03FB@byu.edu> Jonathan, I worked it out for my class. Here?s a sample app that takes you through the main points. http://livecode.byu.edu/mobile/sensorExercise.php Devin On May 26, 2017, at 9:30 AM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode > wrote: Never mind - I see It works after you turn on mobileSensorStartTracking, and appears to return an array on my device Sent from my iPhone On May 26, 2017, at 10:56 AM, Jonathan Lynch > wrote: I put a button on my app and put the app on my iPhone. The button had the following script: on mouseUp put MobileSensorReading("location",true) into tReading answer the Keys of tReading answer tReading end mouseUp I figured this would tell me if the function was supposed to return an array or a variable, since I had read both online. Interestingly, it returned empty for both. -- Do all things with love _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode Devin Asay Director Office of Digital Humanities Brigham Young University From jonathandlynch at gmail.com Fri May 26 12:44:27 2017 From: jonathandlynch at gmail.com (jonathandlynch at gmail.com) Date: Fri, 26 May 2017 12:44:27 -0400 Subject: Does MobileSensorReading work? In-Reply-To: <1B0DC8F1-1014-4564-88B7-AA222BAE03FB@byu.edu> References: <1B0DC8F1-1014-4564-88B7-AA222BAE03FB@byu.edu> Message-ID: <7B2C4C1B-7AAF-4EA4-B24E-120055FF4DD1@gmail.com> Thank you Devin :) Sent from my iPhone > On May 26, 2017, at 12:29 PM, Devin Asay via use-livecode wrote: > > Jonathan, > > I worked it out for my class. Here?s a sample app that takes you through the main points. > > http://livecode.byu.edu/mobile/sensorExercise.php > > Devin > > On May 26, 2017, at 9:30 AM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode > wrote: > > Never mind - I see > > It works after you turn on mobileSensorStartTracking, and appears to return an array on my device > > Sent from my iPhone > > On May 26, 2017, at 10:56 AM, Jonathan Lynch > wrote: > > > I put a button on my app and put the app on my iPhone. > > The button had the following script: > > > on mouseUp > > put MobileSensorReading("location",true) into tReading > > answer the Keys of tReading > > answer tReading > > end mouseUp > > > I figured this would tell me if the function was supposed to return an array or a variable, since I had read both online. > > Interestingly, it returned empty for both. > > > > -- > Do all things with love > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > Devin Asay > Director > Office of Digital Humanities > Brigham Young University > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bonnmike at gmail.com Fri May 26 12:52:59 2017 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Fri, 26 May 2017 10:52:59 -0600 Subject: Uploading Image - Livecode Tutorial Example? Sessions? In-Reply-To: <7B8C11F5-0005-4F01-A61D-1A28CF807069@me.com> References: <26EBAD95-7C49-42F3-ACC3-1660B095E304@me.com> <7B8C11F5-0005-4F01-A61D-1A28CF807069@me.com> Message-ID: Theres another issue with on-rev. Even if you set the sessionSavePath, it won't work due to the default version of LC on on-rev. You need to override the version using an .htaccess file, but i've not managed to actually get that to work for me. Looking for the link that tells you how to do this. If you actually get it to work please let me know how! http://lessons.livecode.com/m/4070/l/41105-how-do-i-choose-which-livecode-server-engine-to-use-with-on-rev Unless they've updated the default version for .lc files, you'll need to switch to a more recent version of the server to get sessions to work. On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 10:15 AM, JOHN PATTEN via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I think I figured out the issue based on an old post by Sturgis? > > Apparently you have to set the sessionSavePath before you call the ?start > session.? > > set the sessionSavePath to the defaultfolder > > Forum discussion here: > > http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=10787&p= > 50056&hilit=session#p50034 viewtopic.php?f=15&t=10787&p=50056&hilit=session#p50034> > > Cheers! > > > > On May 26, 2017, at 8:39 AM, JOHN PATTEN via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > Hello! > > > > Thanks for those that answered about the problem I was having with FTP. > It was the URLEncode issue that was tripping me up. > > > > However, I?m changing gears as I hadn?t realized that I could not ftp > directly into a htmlpublic directory on On-Rev. Ultimately I am trying to > just create a little iOS app that will allow me upload and image and create > a simple html page to display the image. > > > > I have been using the LiveCode tutorial here: ?How do I use LiveCode > graphics features server-side?? (http://lessons.livecode.com/ > m/15262/l/156710-how-do-i-use-livecode-graphics-features-server-side < > http://lessons.livecode.com/m/15262/l/156710-how-do-i-use- > livecode-graphics-features-server-side>) > > > > I can?t get this to work the ?start session? included in the script? > > > > The example starts: > > --------------- > > > start session > > ## enter the image file into our $_SESSION if one's just been uploaded > > if $_FILES["imagefile"] is not empty then > > put url("binfile:" & $_FILES["imagefile"]["filename"]) into > $_SESSION["imagedata"] > > end if > > if $_SESSION["imagedata"] is empty then > > printForm ## no image has been uploaded so display the form to > upload one > > else > > create image ?myImage? ? > > > > ???????? > > > > If I take the ?start session? out, the server script works, sort of?as I > think it will upload the image, but because there is no session, you can?t > manipulate the image. > > > > Has anybody got this example to work? I have tried moving the ?start > session? around to different areas of the server script, but that does not > seem to work either. > > > > Thank you! > > John Patten > > SUSD > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From johnpatten at me.com Fri May 26 13:01:09 2017 From: johnpatten at me.com (JOHN PATTEN) Date: Fri, 26 May 2017 10:01:09 -0700 Subject: Uploading Image - Livecode Tutorial Example? Sessions? In-Reply-To: References: <26EBAD95-7C49-42F3-ACC3-1660B095E304@me.com> <7B8C11F5-0005-4F01-A61D-1A28CF807069@me.com> Message-ID: <9922CF13-BCFB-4D6A-AA32-BB7E6FFB717E@me.com> Hi Mike, It appears to be working for me now, and I did not have to override the version editing the .htaccess file. What I?d like to do now is keep the script from naming the new image with a random number. :) Cheers! > On May 26, 2017, at 9:52 AM, Mike Bonner via use-livecode wrote: > > Theres another issue with on-rev. Even if you set the sessionSavePath, it > won't work due to the default version of LC on on-rev. You need to > override the version using an .htaccess file, but i've not managed to > actually get that to work for me. Looking for the link that tells you how > to do this. If you actually get it to work please let me know how! > > http://lessons.livecode.com/m/4070/l/41105-how-do-i-choose-which-livecode-server-engine-to-use-with-on-rev > > Unless they've updated the default version for .lc files, you'll need to > switch to a more recent version of the server to get sessions to work. > > On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 10:15 AM, JOHN PATTEN via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> I think I figured out the issue based on an old post by Sturgis? >> >> Apparently you have to set the sessionSavePath before you call the ?start >> session.? >> >> set the sessionSavePath to the defaultfolder >> >> Forum discussion here: >> >> http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=10787&p= >> 50056&hilit=session#p50034 > viewtopic.php?f=15&t=10787&p=50056&hilit=session#p50034> >> >> Cheers! >> >> >>> On May 26, 2017, at 8:39 AM, JOHN PATTEN via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: >>> >>> Hello! >>> >>> Thanks for those that answered about the problem I was having with FTP. >> It was the URLEncode issue that was tripping me up. >>> >>> However, I?m changing gears as I hadn?t realized that I could not ftp >> directly into a htmlpublic directory on On-Rev. Ultimately I am trying to >> just create a little iOS app that will allow me upload and image and create >> a simple html page to display the image. >>> >>> I have been using the LiveCode tutorial here: ?How do I use LiveCode >> graphics features server-side?? (http://lessons.livecode.com/ >> m/15262/l/156710-how-do-i-use-livecode-graphics-features-server-side < >> http://lessons.livecode.com/m/15262/l/156710-how-do-i-use- >> livecode-graphics-features-server-side>) >>> >>> I can?t get this to work the ?start session? included in the script? >>> >>> The example starts: >>> --------------- >>> >> start session >>> ## enter the image file into our $_SESSION if one's just been uploaded >>> if $_FILES["imagefile"] is not empty then >>> put url("binfile:" & $_FILES["imagefile"]["filename"]) into >> $_SESSION["imagedata"] >>> end if >>> if $_SESSION["imagedata"] is empty then >>> printForm ## no image has been uploaded so display the form to >> upload one >>> else >>> create image ?myImage? ? >>> >>> ???????? >>> >>> If I take the ?start session? out, the server script works, sort of?as I >> think it will upload the image, but because there is no session, you can?t >> manipulate the image. >>> >>> Has anybody got this example to work? I have tried moving the ?start >> session? around to different areas of the server script, but that does not >> seem to work either. >>> >>> Thank you! >>> John Patten >>> SUSD >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bonnmike at gmail.com Fri May 26 13:25:03 2017 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Fri, 26 May 2017 11:25:03 -0600 Subject: Uploading Image - Livecode Tutorial Example? Sessions? In-Reply-To: <9922CF13-BCFB-4D6A-AA32-BB7E6FFB717E@me.com> References: <26EBAD95-7C49-42F3-ACC3-1660B095E304@me.com> <7B8C11F5-0005-4F01-A61D-1A28CF807069@me.com> <9922CF13-BCFB-4D6A-AA32-BB7E6FFB717E@me.com> Message-ID: Interesting, it sounds like the version has been updated for on-rev then. (because a few weeks back it just was NOT working, session variables not being kept at all) glad to hear its working for you! On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 11:01 AM, JOHN PATTEN via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hi Mike, > > It appears to be working for me now, and I did not have to override the > version editing the .htaccess file. > > What I?d like to do now is keep the script from naming the new image with > a random number. :) > > Cheers! > > > > > > On May 26, 2017, at 9:52 AM, Mike Bonner via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > Theres another issue with on-rev. Even if you set the sessionSavePath, > it > > won't work due to the default version of LC on on-rev. You need to > > override the version using an .htaccess file, but i've not managed to > > actually get that to work for me. Looking for the link that tells you > how > > to do this. If you actually get it to work please let me know how! > > > > http://lessons.livecode.com/m/4070/l/41105-how-do-i-choose- > which-livecode-server-engine-to-use-with-on-rev > > > > Unless they've updated the default version for .lc files, you'll need to > > switch to a more recent version of the server to get sessions to work. > > > > On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 10:15 AM, JOHN PATTEN via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > >> I think I figured out the issue based on an old post by Sturgis? > >> > >> Apparently you have to set the sessionSavePath before you call the > ?start > >> session.? > >> > >> set the sessionSavePath to the defaultfolder > >> > >> Forum discussion here: > >> > >> http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=10787&p= > >> 50056&hilit=session#p50034 >> viewtopic.php?f=15&t=10787&p=50056&hilit=session#p50034> > >> > >> Cheers! > >> > >> > >>> On May 26, 2017, at 8:39 AM, JOHN PATTEN via use-livecode < > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >>> > >>> Hello! > >>> > >>> Thanks for those that answered about the problem I was having with FTP. > >> It was the URLEncode issue that was tripping me up. > >>> > >>> However, I?m changing gears as I hadn?t realized that I could not ftp > >> directly into a htmlpublic directory on On-Rev. Ultimately I am trying > to > >> just create a little iOS app that will allow me upload and image and > create > >> a simple html page to display the image. > >>> > >>> I have been using the LiveCode tutorial here: ?How do I use LiveCode > >> graphics features server-side?? (http://lessons.livecode.com/ > >> m/15262/l/156710-how-do-i-use-livecode-graphics-features-server-side < > >> http://lessons.livecode.com/m/15262/l/156710-how-do-i-use- > >> livecode-graphics-features-server-side>) > >>> > >>> I can?t get this to work the ?start session? included in the script? > >>> > >>> The example starts: > >>> --------------- > >>> >>> start session > >>> ## enter the image file into our $_SESSION if one's just been uploaded > >>> if $_FILES["imagefile"] is not empty then > >>> put url("binfile:" & $_FILES["imagefile"]["filename"]) into > >> $_SESSION["imagedata"] > >>> end if > >>> if $_SESSION["imagedata"] is empty then > >>> printForm ## no image has been uploaded so display the form to > >> upload one > >>> else > >>> create image ?myImage? ? > >>> > >>> ???????? > >>> > >>> If I take the ?start session? out, the server script works, sort of?as > I > >> think it will upload the image, but because there is no session, you > can?t > >> manipulate the image. > >>> > >>> Has anybody got this example to work? I have tried moving the ?start > >> session? around to different areas of the server script, but that does > not > >> seem to work either. > >>> > >>> Thank you! > >>> John Patten > >>> SUSD > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> use-livecode mailing list > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Fri May 26 13:39:22 2017 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe) Date: Fri, 26 May 2017 19:39:22 +0200 Subject: Uploading Image - Livecode Tutorial Example? Sessions? In-Reply-To: References: <26EBAD95-7C49-42F3-ACC3-1660B095E304@me.com> <7B8C11F5-0005-4F01-A61D-1A28CF807069@me.com> Message-ID: <6D48EC29-B349-4205-B3A8-2782D27FA39C@m-r-d.de> Mike, i have successfully intalled LC 9 DP6 on Tio Server using the .htaccess method. This is the content of my .htaccess Directory index index.lc Options -Indexes Options ExecCGI AddHandler livecode-script .rev .lc9 .lc Action livecode-script /cgi-bin/livecode-server-9_0_0_dp_6 Please note that you need to add this to each .htaccess file for each domain/domain folder. So if you use public_html for your main domain, e.g. mike.on-rev.com , and for an additional addon domain, e.g. mikebonner.com , a separate folder, e.g. /public_html/mikebonner then you need to place the .htaccess file and the lcserver binaries into public_html and also into the "2nd domain? folder /public_html/mikebonner. So if you have 50 addon domains and each in its own folder and you want to use your own LC Server binaries for all 50 domains, then you have to copy .htaccess and LC Server into each of the 50 folders. Please find a screenshot of the permssions i?ve set for each file here: https://dl.webfactory.onl/permssions_lcserver.png HTH, Matthias Matthias Rebbe +49 5741 310000 ?matthiasrebbe.eu ? > Am 26.05.2017 um 18:52 schrieb Mike Bonner via use-livecode >: > > Theres another issue with on-rev. Even if you set the sessionSavePath, it > won't work due to the default version of LC on on-rev. You need to > override the version using an .htaccess file, but i've not managed to > actually get that to work for me. Looking for the link that tells you how > to do this. If you actually get it to work please let me know how! > > http://lessons.livecode.com/m/4070/l/41105-how-do-i-choose-which-livecode-server-engine-to-use-with-on-rev > > Unless they've updated the default version for .lc files, you'll need to > switch to a more recent version of the server to get sessions to work. > > On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 10:15 AM, JOHN PATTEN via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > wrote: > >> I think I figured out the issue based on an old post by Sturgis? >> >> Apparently you have to set the sessionSavePath before you call the ?start >> session.? >> >> set the sessionSavePath to the defaultfolder >> >> Forum discussion here: >> >> http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=10787&p= >> 50056&hilit=session#p50034 >> viewtopic.php?f=15&t=10787&p=50056&hilit=session#p50034> >> >> Cheers! >> >> >>> On May 26, 2017, at 8:39 AM, JOHN PATTEN via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > wrote: >>> >>> Hello! >>> >>> Thanks for those that answered about the problem I was having with FTP. >> It was the URLEncode issue that was tripping me up. >>> >>> However, I?m changing gears as I hadn?t realized that I could not ftp >> directly into a htmlpublic directory on On-Rev. Ultimately I am trying to >> just create a little iOS app that will allow me upload and image and create >> a simple html page to display the image. >>> >>> I have been using the LiveCode tutorial here: ?How do I use LiveCode >> graphics features server-side?? (http://lessons.livecode.com/ >> m/15262/l/156710-how-do-i-use-livecode-graphics-features-server-side < >> http://lessons.livecode.com/m/15262/l/156710-how-do-i-use- >> livecode-graphics-features-server-side>) >>> >>> I can?t get this to work the ?start session? included in the script? >>> >>> The example starts: >>> --------------- >>> >> start session >>> ## enter the image file into our $_SESSION if one's just been uploaded >>> if $_FILES["imagefile"] is not empty then >>> put url("binfile:" & $_FILES["imagefile"]["filename"]) into >> $_SESSION["imagedata"] >>> end if >>> if $_SESSION["imagedata"] is empty then >>> printForm ## no image has been uploaded so display the form to >> upload one >>> else >>> create image ?myImage? ? >>> >>> ???????? >>> >>> If I take the ?start session? out, the server script works, sort of?as I >> think it will upload the image, but because there is no session, you can?t >> manipulate the image. >>> >>> Has anybody got this example to work? I have tried moving the ?start >> session? around to different areas of the server script, but that does not >> seem to work either. >>> >>> Thank you! >>> John Patten >>> SUSD >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode Matthias Rebbe +49 5741 310000 ?matthiasrebbe.eu ? From bonnmike at gmail.com Fri May 26 14:12:02 2017 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Fri, 26 May 2017 12:12:02 -0600 Subject: Uploading Image - Livecode Tutorial Example? Sessions? In-Reply-To: <6D48EC29-B349-4205-B3A8-2782D27FA39C@m-r-d.de> References: <26EBAD95-7C49-42F3-ACC3-1660B095E304@me.com> <7B8C11F5-0005-4F01-A61D-1A28CF807069@me.com> <6D48EC29-B349-4205-B3A8-2782D27FA39C@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: Thank you!! On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 11:39 AM, Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Mike, > > i have successfully intalled LC 9 DP6 on Tio Server using the .htaccess > method. > > This is the content of my .htaccess > > Directory index index.lc > > Options -Indexes > Options ExecCGI > > AddHandler livecode-script .rev .lc9 .lc > Action livecode-script /cgi-bin/livecode-server-9_0_0_dp_6 > > > Please note that you need to add this to each .htaccess file for each > domain/domain folder. > > So if you use public_html for your main domain, e.g. mike.on-rev.com < > http://mike.on-rev.com/>, and for an additional addon domain, e.g. > mikebonner.com , a separate folder, e.g. > /public_html/mikebonner > > then you need to place the .htaccess file and the lcserver binaries into > public_html and also into the "2nd domain? folder /public_html/mikebonner. > > So if you have 50 addon domains and each in its own folder and you want > to use your own LC Server binaries for all 50 domains, then you have to > copy .htaccess and LC Server into > each of the 50 folders. > > Please find a screenshot of the permssions i?ve set for each file here: > https://dl.webfactory.onl/permssions_lcserver.png < > https://dl.webfactory.onl/permssions_lcserver.png> > > HTH, > > Matthias > > > Matthias Rebbe > +49 5741 310000 > ?matthiasrebbe.eu ? > > > > > Am 26.05.2017 um 18:52 schrieb Mike Bonner via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >: > > > > Theres another issue with on-rev. Even if you set the sessionSavePath, > it > > won't work due to the default version of LC on on-rev. You need to > > override the version using an .htaccess file, but i've not managed to > > actually get that to work for me. Looking for the link that tells you > how > > to do this. If you actually get it to work please let me know how! > > > > http://lessons.livecode.com/m/4070/l/41105-how-do-i-choose- > which-livecode-server-engine-to-use-with-on-rev < > http://lessons.livecode.com/m/4070/l/41105-how-do-i- > choose-which-livecode-server-engine-to-use-with-on-rev> > > > > Unless they've updated the default version for .lc files, you'll need to > > switch to a more recent version of the server to get sessions to work. > > > > On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 10:15 AM, JOHN PATTEN via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > wrote: > > > >> I think I figured out the issue based on an old post by Sturgis? > >> > >> Apparently you have to set the sessionSavePath before you call the > ?start > >> session.? > >> > >> set the sessionSavePath to the defaultfolder > >> > >> Forum discussion here: > >> > >> http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=10787&p= < > http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=10787&p=> > >> 50056&hilit=session#p50034 http://forums.livecode.com/> > >> viewtopic.php?f=15&t=10787&p=50056&hilit=session#p50034> > >> > >> Cheers! > >> > >> > >>> On May 26, 2017, at 8:39 AM, JOHN PATTEN via use-livecode < > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > wrote: > >>> > >>> Hello! > >>> > >>> Thanks for those that answered about the problem I was having with FTP. > >> It was the URLEncode issue that was tripping me up. > >>> > >>> However, I?m changing gears as I hadn?t realized that I could not ftp > >> directly into a htmlpublic directory on On-Rev. Ultimately I am trying > to > >> just create a little iOS app that will allow me upload and image and > create > >> a simple html page to display the image. > >>> > >>> I have been using the LiveCode tutorial here: ?How do I use LiveCode > >> graphics features server-side?? (http://lessons.livecode.com/ < > http://lessons.livecode.com/> > >> m/15262/l/156710-how-do-i-use-livecode-graphics-features-server-side < > >> http://lessons.livecode.com/m/15262/l/156710-how-do-i-use- < > http://lessons.livecode.com/m/15262/l/156710-how-do-i-use-> > >> livecode-graphics-features-server-side>) > >>> > >>> I can?t get this to work the ?start session? included in the script? > >>> > >>> The example starts: > >>> --------------- > >>> >>> start session > >>> ## enter the image file into our $_SESSION if one's just been uploaded > >>> if $_FILES["imagefile"] is not empty then > >>> put url("binfile:" & $_FILES["imagefile"]["filename"]) into > >> $_SESSION["imagedata"] > >>> end if > >>> if $_SESSION["imagedata"] is empty then > >>> printForm ## no image has been uploaded so display the form to > >> upload one > >>> else > >>> create image ?myImage? ? > >>> > >>> ???????? > >>> > >>> If I take the ?start session? out, the server script works, sort of?as > I > >> think it will upload the image, but because there is no session, you > can?t > >> manipulate the image. > >>> > >>> Has anybody got this example to work? I have tried moving the ?start > >> session? around to different areas of the server script, but that does > not > >> seem to work either. > >>> > >>> Thank you! > >>> John Patten > >>> SUSD > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> use-livecode mailing list > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode < > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode> > > > Matthias Rebbe > +49 5741 310000 > ?matthiasrebbe.eu ? > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Fri May 26 14:13:13 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Fri, 26 May 2017 11:13:13 -0700 Subject: Raspberry Pi help needed soon Message-ID: <1a2a1f77-6a5c-cf1f-7c24-68d87c766a61@fourthworld.com> From this morning's news: Raspberry Pi is merging with a coding foundation Together, Raspberry Pi and CoderDojo hope to reach 185,000 young people in more than 100 countries all over the planet. This is a great move for both orgs and their audiences, but implies a risk for LiveCode platform adoption in further consolidation of entrenched support for Scratch and Python. This suggests that the sooner we can get an updated functional build of LiveCode for Raspberry Pi, the better for both our beloved platform and RPi users everywhere who currently have to struggle with the gap between Scratch and Python. A LC user on the Glitter channel mentioned working on a new build of LC v9 for RPi, but requests for more info have not met with a reply. We have a forum set up for coordinating these efforts but the two people there who've expressed an interest in setting up a build system have run into snags with compilation, and support from the LC core dev team has not yet materialized: http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=76&t=27912 If any of you know your way around a compiler and may be able to lend a hand, it would be very valuable for the LiveCode platform to be able to run well on Raspberry Pi as soon as practical. -- Richard Gaskin LiveCode Community Liaison richard at livecode.org From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Fri May 26 15:23:13 2017 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe) Date: Fri, 26 May 2017 21:23:13 +0200 Subject: Uploading Image - Livecode Tutorial Example? Sessions? In-Reply-To: References: <26EBAD95-7C49-42F3-ACC3-1660B095E304@me.com> <7B8C11F5-0005-4F01-A61D-1A28CF807069@me.com> <6D48EC29-B349-4205-B3A8-2782D27FA39C@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <21688CD5-EFC5-44F9-96E3-D88CDA595C0D@m-r-d.de> Mike, i just noticed that my lc server installation on TIO is not working anymore :( Tio is running LC Version 7.1 and that version always shows an empty $_post array when the posted data was formated with libUrlMultipartFormData I asked support for a server wide upgrade to a version which is able to handle that kind of posted data, but w/o success. So i installed LC DP6 on the 29th April, which is able to handle that kind of data, and it worked w/o problems so far. I am not sure for how long it is not working anymore , but im pretty sure it worked at at least until last week. I really do not know what?s the problem is now, but i am really peeved. I have really no time and no desire to check every day if it is still working. I think i have to move that domain also to HostM. Better and quicker support. Normal support requests are answered and solved within a few hours. The longest time for a reply was about 4 hours, the shortest 30 minutes. Very good ticket system, so you can see all previous tickets in your customer account. And and and? Btw, if a customer can proof the purchase of a current commercial LC license they install a version of choice of a commercial license of LC server account wide. No need to install it for every domain / domain folder. Matthias > Am 26.05.2017 um 20:12 schrieb Mike Bonner via use-livecode >: > > Thank you!! > > > On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 11:39 AM, Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > wrote: > >> Mike, >> >> i have successfully intalled LC 9 DP6 on Tio Server using the .htaccess >> method. >> >> This is the content of my .htaccess >> >> Directory index index.lc >> >> Options -Indexes >> Options ExecCGI >> >> AddHandler livecode-script .rev .lc9 .lc >> Action livecode-script /cgi-bin/livecode-server-9_0_0_dp_6 >> >> >> Please note that you need to add this to each .htaccess file for each >> domain/domain folder. >> >> So if you use public_html for your main domain, e.g. mike.on-rev.com < >> http://mike.on-rev.com/ >, and for an additional addon domain, e.g. >> mikebonner.com >, a separate folder, e.g. >> /public_html/mikebonner >> >> then you need to place the .htaccess file and the lcserver binaries into >> public_html and also into the "2nd domain? folder /public_html/mikebonner. >> >> So if you have 50 addon domains and each in its own folder and you want >> to use your own LC Server binaries for all 50 domains, then you have to >> copy .htaccess and LC Server into >> each of the 50 folders. >> >> Please find a screenshot of the permssions i?ve set for each file here: >> https://dl.webfactory.onl/permssions_lcserver.png < >> https://dl.webfactory.onl/permssions_lcserver.png > >> >> HTH, >> >> Matthias >> >> >> Matthias Rebbe >> +49 5741 310000 >> ?matthiasrebbe.eu >? >> >> >> >>> Am 26.05.2017 um 18:52 schrieb Mike Bonner via use-livecode < >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>: >>> >>> Theres another issue with on-rev. Even if you set the sessionSavePath, >> it >>> won't work due to the default version of LC on on-rev. You need to >>> override the version using an .htaccess file, but i've not managed to >>> actually get that to work for me. Looking for the link that tells you >> how >>> to do this. If you actually get it to work please let me know how! >>> >>> http://lessons.livecode.com/m/4070/l/41105-how-do-i-choose- >> which-livecode-server-engine-to-use-with-on-rev < >> http://lessons.livecode.com/m/4070/l/41105-how-do-i- >> choose-which-livecode-server-engine-to-use-with-on-rev> >>> >>> Unless they've updated the default version for .lc files, you'll need to >>> switch to a more recent version of the server to get sessions to work. >>> >>> On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 10:15 AM, JOHN PATTEN via use-livecode < >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> wrote: >>> >>>> I think I figured out the issue based on an old post by Sturgis? >>>> >>>> Apparently you have to set the sessionSavePath before you call the >> ?start >>>> session.? >>>> >>>> set the sessionSavePath to the defaultfolder >>>> >>>> Forum discussion here: >>>> >>>> http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=10787&p= < >> http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=10787&p=> >>>> 50056&hilit=session#p50034 > http://forums.livecode.com/> >>>> viewtopic.php?f=15&t=10787&p=50056&hilit=session#p50034> >>>> >>>> Cheers! >>>> >>>> >>>>> On May 26, 2017, at 8:39 AM, JOHN PATTEN via use-livecode < >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hello! >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for those that answered about the problem I was having with FTP. >>>> It was the URLEncode issue that was tripping me up. >>>>> >>>>> However, I?m changing gears as I hadn?t realized that I could not ftp >>>> directly into a htmlpublic directory on On-Rev. Ultimately I am trying >> to >>>> just create a little iOS app that will allow me upload and image and >> create >>>> a simple html page to display the image. >>>>> >>>>> I have been using the LiveCode tutorial here: ?How do I use LiveCode >>>> graphics features server-side?? (http://lessons.livecode.com/ < >> http://lessons.livecode.com/> >>>> m/15262/l/156710-how-do-i-use-livecode-graphics-features-server-side < >>>> http://lessons.livecode.com/m/15262/l/156710-how-do-i-use- < >> http://lessons.livecode.com/m/15262/l/156710-how-do-i-use-> >>>> livecode-graphics-features-server-side>) >>>>> >>>>> I can?t get this to work the ?start session? included in the script? >>>>> >>>>> The example starts: >>>>> --------------- >>>>> >>>> start session >>>>> ## enter the image file into our $_SESSION if one's just been uploaded >>>>> if $_FILES["imagefile"] is not empty then >>>>> put url("binfile:" & $_FILES["imagefile"]["filename"]) into >>>> $_SESSION["imagedata"] >>>>> end if >>>>> if $_SESSION["imagedata"] is empty then >>>>> printForm ## no image has been uploaded so display the form to >>>> upload one >>>>> else >>>>> create image ?myImage? ? >>>>> >>>>> ???????? >>>>> >>>>> If I take the ?start session? out, the server script works, sort of?as >> I >>>> think it will upload the image, but because there is no session, you >> can?t >>>> manipulate the image. >>>>> >>>>> Has anybody got this example to work? I have tried moving the ?start >>>> session? around to different areas of the server script, but that does >> not >>>> seem to work either. >>>>> >>>>> Thank you! >>>>> John Patten >>>>> SUSD >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode < >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode> >> >> >> Matthias Rebbe >> +49 5741 310000 >> ?matthiasrebbe.eu ? >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode Matthias Rebbe +49 5741 310000 ?matthiasrebbe.eu ? From bonnmike at gmail.com Fri May 26 15:42:42 2017 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Fri, 26 May 2017 13:42:42 -0600 Subject: Uploading Image - Livecode Tutorial Example? Sessions? In-Reply-To: <21688CD5-EFC5-44F9-96E3-D88CDA595C0D@m-r-d.de> References: <26EBAD95-7C49-42F3-ACC3-1660B095E304@me.com> <7B8C11F5-0005-4F01-A61D-1A28CF807069@me.com> <6D48EC29-B349-4205-B3A8-2782D27FA39C@m-r-d.de> <21688CD5-EFC5-44F9-96E3-D88CDA595C0D@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: I keep hoping for a server wide upgrade myself. I don't use the service all that much so its not really a critical issue for me, but the one site that IS actually up, and commercial and useful could be improved with an alternate version. I'll see if I can get the .htaccess example working ok, and if so, then I'l think about potential changes. Thanks for the previously working example. Hopefully it will return to being a currently working example. On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 1:23 PM, Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Mike, > > i just noticed that my lc server installation on TIO is not working > anymore :( > > Tio is running LC Version 7.1 and that version always shows an empty > $_post array when the posted data was formated with libUrlMultipartFormData > I asked support for a server wide upgrade to a version which is able to > handle that kind of posted data, but w/o success. > > So i installed LC DP6 on the 29th April, which is able to handle that kind > of data, and it worked w/o problems so far. I am not sure for how long it > is not working anymore , but im pretty sure it worked at at least until > last week. > > I really do not know what?s the problem is now, but i am really peeved. I > have really no time and no desire to check every day if it is still working. > > I think i have to move that domain also to HostM. Better and quicker > support. Normal support requests are answered and solved within a few > hours. The longest time for a reply was about 4 hours, the shortest 30 > minutes. Very good ticket system, so you can see all previous tickets in > your customer account. And and and? > > Btw, if a customer can proof the purchase of a current commercial LC > license they install a version of choice of a commercial license of LC > server account wide. No need to install it for every domain / domain folder. > > Matthias > > > > Am 26.05.2017 um 20:12 schrieb Mike Bonner via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >: > > > > Thank you!! > > > > > > On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 11:39 AM, Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > wrote: > > > >> Mike, > >> > >> i have successfully intalled LC 9 DP6 on Tio Server using the .htaccess > >> method. > >> > >> This is the content of my .htaccess > >> > >> Directory index index.lc > >> > >> Options -Indexes > >> Options ExecCGI > >> > >> AddHandler livecode-script .rev .lc9 .lc > >> Action livecode-script /cgi-bin/livecode-server-9_0_0_dp_6 > >> > >> > >> Please note that you need to add this to each .htaccess file for each > >> domain/domain folder. > >> > >> So if you use public_html for your main domain, e.g. mike.on-rev.com < > http://mike.on-rev.com/> < > >> http://mike.on-rev.com/ >, and for an > additional addon domain, e.g. > >> mikebonner.com http://mikebonner.com/>>, a separate folder, e.g. > >> /public_html/mikebonner > >> > >> then you need to place the .htaccess file and the lcserver binaries into > >> public_html and also into the "2nd domain? folder > /public_html/mikebonner. > >> > >> So if you have 50 addon domains and each in its own folder and you want > >> to use your own LC Server binaries for all 50 domains, then you have to > >> copy .htaccess and LC Server into > >> each of the 50 folders. > >> > >> Please find a screenshot of the permssions i?ve set for each file here: > >> https://dl.webfactory.onl/permssions_lcserver.png < > https://dl.webfactory.onl/permssions_lcserver.png> < > >> https://dl.webfactory.onl/permssions_lcserver.png < > https://dl.webfactory.onl/permssions_lcserver.png>> > >> > >> HTH, > >> > >> Matthias > >> > >> > >> Matthias Rebbe > >> +49 5741 310000 > >> ?matthiasrebbe.eu >? > >> > >> > >> > >>> Am 26.05.2017 um 18:52 schrieb Mike Bonner via use-livecode < > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > runrev.com>>>: > >>> > >>> Theres another issue with on-rev. Even if you set the sessionSavePath, > >> it > >>> won't work due to the default version of LC on on-rev. You need to > >>> override the version using an .htaccess file, but i've not managed to > >>> actually get that to work for me. Looking for the link that tells you > >> how > >>> to do this. If you actually get it to work please let me know how! > >>> > >>> http://lessons.livecode.com/m/4070/l/41105-how-do-i-choose- < > http://lessons.livecode.com/m/4070/l/41105-how-do-i-choose-> > >> which-livecode-server-engine-to-use-with-on-rev < > >> http://lessons.livecode.com/m/4070/l/41105-how-do-i- < > http://lessons.livecode.com/m/4070/l/41105-how-do-i-> > >> choose-which-livecode-server-engine-to-use-with-on-rev> > >>> > >>> Unless they've updated the default version for .lc files, you'll need > to > >>> switch to a more recent version of the server to get sessions to work. > >>> > >>> On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 10:15 AM, JOHN PATTEN via use-livecode < > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > >> wrote: > >>> > >>>> I think I figured out the issue based on an old post by Sturgis? > >>>> > >>>> Apparently you have to set the sessionSavePath before you call the > >> ?start > >>>> session.? > >>>> > >>>> set the sessionSavePath to the defaultfolder > >>>> > >>>> Forum discussion here: > >>>> > >>>> http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=10787&p= < > >> http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=10787&p=> > >>>> 50056&hilit=session#p50034 >> http://forums.livecode.com/> > >>>> viewtopic.php?f=15&t=10787&p=50056&hilit=session#p50034> > >>>> > >>>> Cheers! > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> On May 26, 2017, at 8:39 AM, JOHN PATTEN via use-livecode < > >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > >> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> Hello! > >>>>> > >>>>> Thanks for those that answered about the problem I was having with > FTP. > >>>> It was the URLEncode issue that was tripping me up. > >>>>> > >>>>> However, I?m changing gears as I hadn?t realized that I could not ftp > >>>> directly into a htmlpublic directory on On-Rev. Ultimately I am trying > >> to > >>>> just create a little iOS app that will allow me upload and image and > >> create > >>>> a simple html page to display the image. > >>>>> > >>>>> I have been using the LiveCode tutorial here: ?How do I use LiveCode > >>>> graphics features server-side?? (http://lessons.livecode.com/ < > >> http://lessons.livecode.com/> > >>>> m/15262/l/156710-how-do-i-use-livecode-graphics-features-server-side > < > >>>> http://lessons.livecode.com/m/15262/l/156710-how-do-i-use- < > >> http://lessons.livecode.com/m/15262/l/156710-how-do-i-use-> > >>>> livecode-graphics-features-server-side>) > >>>>> > >>>>> I can?t get this to work the ?start session? included in the script? > >>>>> > >>>>> The example starts: > >>>>> --------------- > >>>>> >>>>> start session > >>>>> ## enter the image file into our $_SESSION if one's just been > uploaded > >>>>> if $_FILES["imagefile"] is not empty then > >>>>> put url("binfile:" & $_FILES["imagefile"]["filename"]) into > >>>> $_SESSION["imagedata"] > >>>>> end if > >>>>> if $_SESSION["imagedata"] is empty then > >>>>> printForm ## no image has been uploaded so display the form to > >>>> upload one > >>>>> else > >>>>> create image ?myImage? ? > >>>>> > >>>>> ???????? > >>>>> > >>>>> If I take the ?start session? out, the server script works, sort > of?as > >> I > >>>> think it will upload the image, but because there is no session, you > >> can?t > >>>> manipulate the image. > >>>>> > >>>>> Has anybody got this example to work? I have tried moving the ?start > >>>> session? around to different areas of the server script, but that does > >> not > >>>> seem to work either. > >>>>> > >>>>> Thank you! > >>>>> John Patten > >>>>> SUSD > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> use-livecode mailing list > >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >>>> subscription preferences: > >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> use-livecode mailing list > >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >>>> subscription preferences: > >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >>>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> use-livecode mailing list > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode < > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode> > >> > >> > >> Matthias Rebbe > >> +49 5741 310000 > >> ?matthiasrebbe.eu ? > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > Matthias Rebbe > +49 5741 310000 > ?matthiasrebbe.eu ? > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From sundown at pacifier.com Fri May 26 16:12:57 2017 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Fri, 26 May 2017 13:12:57 -0700 Subject: Writing Extensions In-Reply-To: References: <2781a3812a983f52562d3e094f82a64e@livecode.com> <8A53907F-8AC3-4A47-9DD1-EA205FB0EBE8@pacifier.com> <954d1df2-5eab-498a-4dd0-e7421e4db7f7@sonic.net> Message-ID: <5B1A8229-5C4C-4426-8D9A-C8F8563AA16B@pacifier.com> That is nice, thanks. JB > On May 25, 2017, at 11:51 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: > > On 05/25/2017 08:07 PM, JB via use-livecode wrote: >> Hi Mark, >> Your way is much better! >> I just started learning Java a few >> days ago so the reason I did it >> wrong was because I did not >> know what I was doing. >> THANK YOU! > > Nothing wrong with your java code. > Your LC script was calling the java app without passing the arguments to it, and then printing the arguments, so it looked like everything was working. > > Try changing the java code to this to see the difference: > > System.out.println(args[i] + " is arg " + (i+1)); > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From jonathandlynch at gmail.com Sat May 27 08:31:48 2017 From: jonathandlynch at gmail.com (jonathandlynch at gmail.com) Date: Sat, 27 May 2017 08:31:48 -0400 Subject: Does MobileSensorReading work? In-Reply-To: <7B2C4C1B-7AAF-4EA4-B24E-120055FF4DD1@gmail.com> References: <1B0DC8F1-1014-4564-88B7-AA222BAE03FB@byu.edu> <7B2C4C1B-7AAF-4EA4-B24E-120055FF4DD1@gmail.com> Message-ID: The mobile sensor reading is having a problem when combined with the plist hack. When I hit the home button to put the app in pause mode, and then go back into the app, the device thinks that north is in whichever direction the phone is facing when the app resumes. It is strange. Sent from my iPhone > On May 26, 2017, at 12:44 PM, jonathandlynch at gmail.com wrote: > > Thank you Devin :) > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On May 26, 2017, at 12:29 PM, Devin Asay via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Jonathan, >> >> I worked it out for my class. Here?s a sample app that takes you through the main points. >> >> http://livecode.byu.edu/mobile/sensorExercise.php >> >> Devin >> >> On May 26, 2017, at 9:30 AM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode > wrote: >> >> Never mind - I see >> >> It works after you turn on mobileSensorStartTracking, and appears to return an array on my device >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On May 26, 2017, at 10:56 AM, Jonathan Lynch > wrote: >> >> >> I put a button on my app and put the app on my iPhone. >> >> The button had the following script: >> >> >> on mouseUp >> >> put MobileSensorReading("location",true) into tReading >> >> answer the Keys of tReading >> >> answer tReading >> >> end mouseUp >> >> >> I figured this would tell me if the function was supposed to return an array or a variable, since I had read both online. >> >> Interestingly, it returned empty for both. >> >> >> >> -- >> Do all things with love >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> Devin Asay >> Director >> Office of Digital Humanities >> Brigham Young University >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mark.rauterkus at gmail.com Sat May 27 09:35:39 2017 From: mark.rauterkus at gmail.com (Mark Rauterkus) Date: Sat, 27 May 2017 09:35:39 -0400 Subject: Raspberry Pi help needed soon Message-ID: Yes Richard. Sing it again and again. Wow to that news. LiveCode needs to show up there, with bells on. From livfoss at mac.com Sat May 27 09:57:18 2017 From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel) Date: Sat, 27 May 2017 15:57:18 +0200 Subject: Very naive URL question Message-ID: Hi - I?m using LC 8.1.4 rc2 Indy on a Mac with Sierra. I am confused about something so fundamental that I am embarrassed to have to ask for help, but there it is? I own a website, www.mydomain.com Mostly it serves web pages, which works fine. I decided to put a tiny text file onto the server at the same level as the .html pages, say myText.txt I had no difficulty uploading the file using Transmit, a good FTP client for the Mac. Now I want to write a statement in LiveCode that gets the text back, so I wrote in the message box: get URL ?ftp://www.mydomain.com/myText.txt? This produced nothing in ?it? or in ?the result?. So it was as if the URL command had never been issued. After a lot of fooling around I was told by a browser (Google Chrome) that I should have authenticated this FTP request with a user name and a password, which I have. My naive question is, how do I tell LC to do the authentication? I should say that this is entirely internal to the program, so any kind of user-completed dialog is a no-no. TIA Graham From jonathandlynch at gmail.com Sat May 27 10:21:22 2017 From: jonathandlynch at gmail.com (jonathandlynch at gmail.com) Date: Sat, 27 May 2017 10:21:22 -0400 Subject: Does MobileSensorReading work? In-Reply-To: References: <1B0DC8F1-1014-4564-88B7-AA222BAE03FB@byu.edu> <7B2C4C1B-7AAF-4EA4-B24E-120055FF4DD1@gmail.com> Message-ID: The problem might be on my phone - the compass app does the same thing! Sent from my iPhone > On May 27, 2017, at 8:31 AM, jonathandlynch at gmail.com wrote: > > The mobile sensor reading is having a problem when combined with the plist hack. > > When I hit the home button to put the app in pause mode, and then go back into the app, the device thinks that north is in whichever direction the phone is facing when the app resumes. > > It is strange. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On May 26, 2017, at 12:44 PM, jonathandlynch at gmail.com wrote: >> >> Thank you Devin :) >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On May 26, 2017, at 12:29 PM, Devin Asay via use-livecode wrote: >>> >>> Jonathan, >>> >>> I worked it out for my class. Here?s a sample app that takes you through the main points. >>> >>> http://livecode.byu.edu/mobile/sensorExercise.php >>> >>> Devin >>> >>> On May 26, 2017, at 9:30 AM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode > wrote: >>> >>> Never mind - I see >>> >>> It works after you turn on mobileSensorStartTracking, and appears to return an array on my device >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On May 26, 2017, at 10:56 AM, Jonathan Lynch > wrote: >>> >>> >>> I put a button on my app and put the app on my iPhone. >>> >>> The button had the following script: >>> >>> >>> on mouseUp >>> >>> put MobileSensorReading("location",true) into tReading >>> >>> answer the Keys of tReading >>> >>> answer tReading >>> >>> end mouseUp >>> >>> >>> I figured this would tell me if the function was supposed to return an array or a variable, since I had read both online. >>> >>> Interestingly, it returned empty for both. >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Do all things with love >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> Devin Asay >>> Director >>> Office of Digital Humanities >>> Brigham Young University >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bonnmike at gmail.com Sat May 27 10:30:54 2017 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Sat, 27 May 2017 08:30:54 -0600 Subject: Very naive URL question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You can embed a username and password in the request, I believe the form is ftp://*username*:*password*@hostname/.. this can be dangerous though, so i'm not sure you should necessarily do that. If you can set up a read only ftp account, that might be ok. In this case though, you're placing a file on a web server so it would make more sense (and be safer) to just hit the web server itself get URL "http://www.mydomain.com/mytext.txt" As long as the file is in the actual http served hierarchy, it should work fine. IF you are putting the file outside of this hierarchy, then yes ftp must be used. (I have a site and have placed an sqlite database outside the public_html folder just to keep it from being directly accessible0 On Sat, May 27, 2017 at 7:57 AM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hi - I?m using LC 8.1.4 rc2 Indy on a Mac with Sierra. I am confused about > something so fundamental that I am embarrassed to have to ask for help, but > there it is? > > I own a website, www.mydomain.com > > Mostly it serves web pages, which works fine. I decided to put a tiny text > file onto the server at the same level as the .html pages, say myText.txt > > I had no difficulty uploading the file using Transmit, a good FTP client > for the Mac. Now I want to write a statement in LiveCode that gets the text > back, so I wrote in the message box: > > get URL ?ftp://www.mydomain.com/myText.txt? > > This produced nothing in ?it? or in ?the result?. So it was as if the URL > command had never been issued. > > After a lot of fooling around I was told by a browser (Google Chrome) that > I should have authenticated this FTP request with a user name and a > password, which I have. My naive question is, how do I tell LC to do the > authentication? I should say that this is entirely internal to the program, > so any kind of user-completed dialog is a no-no. > > > TIA > > Graham > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sat May 27 11:09:14 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sat, 27 May 2017 08:09:14 -0700 Subject: TreeView widget - designed for general use? Message-ID: <4db4e6e7-8829-cf50-e0a0-fc56ad1de2e5@fourthworld.com> The TreeView widget seems to do okay for the purpose it's used for in the IDE, but is it designed for us to use in our projects as a general solution for tree views? If so, perhaps I should file a series of bug reports, unless you folks know of a way to work around these: - Frequent "chunk index out of range" errors when double-clicking lines, - Sorting issue when nested arrays may have one level of numeric keys and another level with text keys; we can use numeric OR text, but no way to different sorting for different levels. - Scrollbar doesn't look like anything I've ever seen before except maybe macOS; on Linux the scrollbar looks nothing like the wonderfully rendered LC-native scrollbar control, and is also inset from the right side by several pixels. - Any way to switch the disclosure triangle to "+"/"-" per the Windows HIG when running on Windows? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From livfoss at mac.com Sat May 27 11:17:52 2017 From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel) Date: Sat, 27 May 2017 17:17:52 +0200 Subject: Very naive URL question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E96F9F1-B3BE-49E1-A6DD-FE032812AB0C@mac.com> Thanks Mike - I take your point about having the password etc embedded, so I am going for your ?http? solution. I had naively thought that ?http? was exclusively involved in the serving of web pages, and i imagined that a simple text file isn?t one of those. Thanks to you, I now know better. Anyway I have just tried this and find that it works beautifully in my browsers (Google Chrome and Safari) - I just use the complete reference to the file, and I see the contents of the text file on the screen - but so far it doesn?t work in the LC Message Box. I can?t see what I?m doing wrong. Again, not only does the text not appear, but there is nothing in ?the result? either. It?s as if I had not executed the ?URL?. As an experiment, I also tried to download an actual web page (with an extension of .html) which I assumed would appear in the Message Box as a long string of text. Still nothing. If I ever get this sorted out, I will also try to find out why Transmit puts a different version of the URL onto the clipboard, without ?www? and repeating the domain name. Could be a bug I suppose - but probably not. Still puzzled. I must be doing something **really** stupid. Graham > On 27 May 2017, at 16:30, Mike Bonner via use-livecode wrote: > > You can embed a username and password in the request, I believe the form is > ftp://*username*:*password*@hostname/.. this can be dangerous though, so > i'm not sure you should necessarily do that. If you can set up a read only > ftp account, that might be ok. > > In this case though, you're placing a file on a web server so it would make > more sense (and be safer) to just hit the web server itself > get URL "http://www.mydomain.com/mytext.txt" As long as the file is in the > actual http served hierarchy, it should work fine. IF you are putting the > file outside of this hierarchy, then yes ftp must be used. (I have a site > and have placed an sqlite database outside the public_html folder just to > keep it from being directly accessible0 > > On Sat, May 27, 2017 at 7:57 AM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> Hi - I?m using LC 8.1.4 rc2 Indy on a Mac with Sierra. I am confused about >> something so fundamental that I am embarrassed to have to ask for help, but >> there it is? >> >> I own a website, www.mydomain.com >> >> Mostly it serves web pages, which works fine. I decided to put a tiny text >> file onto the server at the same level as the .html pages, say myText.txt >> >> I had no difficulty uploading the file using Transmit, a good FTP client >> for the Mac. Now I want to write a statement in LiveCode that gets the text >> back, so I wrote in the message box: >> >> get URL ?ftp://www.mydomain.com/myText.txt? >> >> This produced nothing in ?it? or in ?the result?. So it was as if the URL >> command had never been issued. >> >> After a lot of fooling around I was told by a browser (Google Chrome) that >> I should have authenticated this FTP request with a user name and a >> password, which I have. My naive question is, how do I tell LC to do the >> authentication? I should say that this is entirely internal to the program, >> so any kind of user-completed dialog is a no-no. >> >> >> TIA >> >> Graham >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bonnmike at gmail.com Sat May 27 11:32:58 2017 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Sat, 27 May 2017 09:32:58 -0600 Subject: Very naive URL question In-Reply-To: <4E96F9F1-B3BE-49E1-A6DD-FE032812AB0C@mac.com> References: <4E96F9F1-B3BE-49E1-A6DD-FE032812AB0C@mac.com> Message-ID: If you have full reference to the file, and it works in your browser, you should be able to put "http://your.domain.com/text.txt" and have it appear in the msg box If you use "get" it'll put the page into "it'. Even if the server returns an error, it'll end up in "it" so the result being empty is pretty normal I think. (the only time you might see something there would be for a timeout, or something of that nature. Someone correct me if I'm wrong) I suspect its something simple going wrong. I tested here and: put url " http://www.google.com" in the message box works fine. On Sat, May 27, 2017 at 9:17 AM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Thanks Mike - I take your point about having the password etc embedded, so > I am going for your ?http? solution. I had naively thought that ?http? was > exclusively involved in the serving of web pages, and i imagined that a > simple text file isn?t one of those. Thanks to you, I now know better. > > Anyway I have just tried this and find that it works beautifully in my > browsers (Google Chrome and Safari) - I just use the complete reference to > the file, and I see the contents of the text file on the screen - but so > far it doesn?t work in the LC Message Box. I can?t see what I?m doing > wrong. Again, not only does the text not appear, but there is nothing in > ?the result? either. It?s as if I had not executed the ?URL?. As an > experiment, I also tried to download an actual web page (with an extension > of .html) which I assumed would appear in the Message Box as a long string > of text. Still nothing. > > If I ever get this sorted out, I will also try to find out why Transmit > puts a different version of the URL onto the clipboard, without ?www? and > repeating the domain name. Could be a bug I suppose - but probably not. > > Still puzzled. I must be doing something **really** stupid. > > Graham > > > > On 27 May 2017, at 16:30, Mike Bonner via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > You can embed a username and password in the request, I believe the form > is > > ftp://*username*:*password*@hostname/.. this can be dangerous though, so > > i'm not sure you should necessarily do that. If you can set up a read > only > > ftp account, that might be ok. > > > > In this case though, you're placing a file on a web server so it would > make > > more sense (and be safer) to just hit the web server itself > > get URL "http://www.mydomain.com/mytext.txt" As long as the file is in > the > > actual http served hierarchy, it should work fine. IF you are putting > the > > file outside of this hierarchy, then yes ftp must be used. (I have a > site > > and have placed an sqlite database outside the public_html folder just to > > keep it from being directly accessible0 > > > > On Sat, May 27, 2017 at 7:57 AM, Graham Samuel via use-livecode < > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > >> Hi - I?m using LC 8.1.4 rc2 Indy on a Mac with Sierra. I am confused > about > >> something so fundamental that I am embarrassed to have to ask for help, > but > >> there it is? > >> > >> I own a website, www.mydomain.com > >> > >> Mostly it serves web pages, which works fine. I decided to put a tiny > text > >> file onto the server at the same level as the .html pages, say > myText.txt > >> > >> I had no difficulty uploading the file using Transmit, a good FTP client > >> for the Mac. Now I want to write a statement in LiveCode that gets the > text > >> back, so I wrote in the message box: > >> > >> get URL ?ftp://www.mydomain.com/myText.txt? > >> > >> This produced nothing in ?it? or in ?the result?. So it was as if the > URL > >> command had never been issued. > >> > >> After a lot of fooling around I was told by a browser (Google Chrome) > that > >> I should have authenticated this FTP request with a user name and a > >> password, which I have. My naive question is, how do I tell LC to do the > >> authentication? I should say that this is entirely internal to the > program, > >> so any kind of user-completed dialog is a no-no. > >> > >> > >> TIA > >> > >> Graham > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From jonathandlynch at gmail.com Sat May 27 11:54:06 2017 From: jonathandlynch at gmail.com (jonathandlynch at gmail.com) Date: Sat, 27 May 2017 11:54:06 -0400 Subject: Does MobileSensorReading work? In-Reply-To: References: <1B0DC8F1-1014-4564-88B7-AA222BAE03FB@byu.edu> <7B2C4C1B-7AAF-4EA4-B24E-120055FF4DD1@gmail.com> Message-ID: <776DE92A-CD73-46BF-ABEF-E07DE7B019DC@gmail.com> If it helps anyone - one can apparently recalibrate the compass by facing north, stopping sensor tracking, and restarting sensor tracking. It is only a temporary solution. Sent from my iPhone > On May 27, 2017, at 10:21 AM, jonathandlynch at gmail.com wrote: > > The problem might be on my phone - the compass app does the same thing! > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On May 27, 2017, at 8:31 AM, jonathandlynch at gmail.com wrote: >> >> The mobile sensor reading is having a problem when combined with the plist hack. >> >> When I hit the home button to put the app in pause mode, and then go back into the app, the device thinks that north is in whichever direction the phone is facing when the app resumes. >> >> It is strange. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On May 26, 2017, at 12:44 PM, jonathandlynch at gmail.com wrote: >>> >>> Thank you Devin :) >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On May 26, 2017, at 12:29 PM, Devin Asay via use-livecode wrote: >>>> >>>> Jonathan, >>>> >>>> I worked it out for my class. Here?s a sample app that takes you through the main points. >>>> >>>> http://livecode.byu.edu/mobile/sensorExercise.php >>>> >>>> Devin >>>> >>>> On May 26, 2017, at 9:30 AM, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode > wrote: >>>> >>>> Never mind - I see >>>> >>>> It works after you turn on mobileSensorStartTracking, and appears to return an array on my device >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On May 26, 2017, at 10:56 AM, Jonathan Lynch > wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> I put a button on my app and put the app on my iPhone. >>>> >>>> The button had the following script: >>>> >>>> >>>> on mouseUp >>>> >>>> put MobileSensorReading("location",true) into tReading >>>> >>>> answer the Keys of tReading >>>> >>>> answer tReading >>>> >>>> end mouseUp >>>> >>>> >>>> I figured this would tell me if the function was supposed to return an array or a variable, since I had read both online. >>>> >>>> Interestingly, it returned empty for both. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Do all things with love >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>>> Devin Asay >>>> Director >>>> Office of Digital Humanities >>>> Brigham Young University >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From livfoss at mac.com Sat May 27 12:31:08 2017 From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel) Date: Sat, 27 May 2017 18:31:08 +0200 Subject: Very naive URL question In-Reply-To: References: <4E96F9F1-B3BE-49E1-A6DD-FE032812AB0C@mac.com> Message-ID: <3382EDFC-F554-429D-A05F-DEBA9E2AE499@mac.com> Thanks Mike Somehow my testing managed to wreck the command, because when I reloaded LC 8.1.4 rc2, it worked, when neither my original call nor the Google one worked at all before. This is a bug in the IDE perhaps, since a bit of script testing should not affect what the Message Box can do. If I can track it down, I?ll report it. Anyway I have learned quite a lot in a short time! Thanks again Graham PS Perhaps the earlier testing when I failed to authenticate might have upset things. I had restarted LC lots of times during these tests, but I had always let the script run on to that point before trying stuff in the Message Box. > On 27 May 2017, at 17:32, Mike Bonner via use-livecode wrote: > > If you have full reference to the file, and it works in your browser, you > should be able to > put "http://your.domain.com/text.txt " > and have it appear in the msg box > If you use "get" it'll put the page into "it'. Even if the server returns > an error, it'll end up in "it" so the result being empty is pretty normal I > think. (the only time you might see something there would be for a timeout, > or something of that nature. Someone correct me if I'm wrong) > I suspect its something simple going wrong. I tested here and: put url " > http://www.google.com " in the message box works fine. From ali.lloyd at livecode.com Sat May 27 12:56:35 2017 From: ali.lloyd at livecode.com (Ali Lloyd) Date: Sat, 27 May 2017 16:56:35 +0000 Subject: TreeView widget - designed for general use? In-Reply-To: <4db4e6e7-8829-cf50-e0a0-fc56ad1de2e5@fourthworld.com> References: <4db4e6e7-8829-cf50-e0a0-fc56ad1de2e5@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: You should file bug reports for all of those, please! A couple of them would make good projects for people wanting to learn a bit of LCB and make an open source contribution - namely adding a property to change the disclosure icon (relatively easy) and a property for sort orders of subkeys (medium). On Sat, May 27, 2017 at 4:09 PM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > The TreeView widget seems to do okay for the purpose it's used for in > the IDE, but is it designed for us to use in our projects as a general > solution for tree views? > > If so, perhaps I should file a series of bug reports, unless you folks > know of a way to work around these: > > - Frequent "chunk index out of range" errors when double-clicking lines, > > - Sorting issue when nested arrays may have one level of numeric > keys and another level with text keys; we can use numeric OR > text, but no way to different sorting for different levels. > > - Scrollbar doesn't look like anything I've ever seen before except > maybe macOS; on Linux the scrollbar looks nothing like the wonderfully > rendered LC-native scrollbar control, and is also inset from the right > side by several pixels. > > - Any way to switch the disclosure triangle to "+"/"-" per the Windows > HIG when running on Windows? > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From jonathandlynch at gmail.com Sat May 27 14:46:33 2017 From: jonathandlynch at gmail.com (jonathandlynch at gmail.com) Date: Sat, 27 May 2017 14:46:33 -0400 Subject: Apparently, mobile phone compasses do not work well Message-ID: After a bit of experimentation with different devices, and researching online, I have come to realize that the device simply cannot consistently detect one's bearing with accuracy. I am going to mimic the way Pok?mon Go lets the user spin the view around at will, but still auto adjusts the position as the user walks. Just something to bear in mind for anyone else developing augmented reality apps. Sent from my iPhone From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sat May 27 17:36:33 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sat, 27 May 2017 14:36:33 -0700 Subject: TreeView widget - designed for general use? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <809ea128-9162-4c19-048d-e9137ef86c21@fourthworld.com> Ali Lloyd wrote: > You should file bug reports for all of those, please! Done - see inline below: > On Sat, May 27, 2017 at 4:09 PM Richard Gaskin wrote: ... >> - Frequent "chunk index out of range" errors when double-clicking >> lines http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19753 >> - Sorting issue when nested arrays may have one level of numeric >> keys and another level with text keys; we can use numeric OR >> text, but no way to different sorting for different levels. http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19754 >> - Scrollbar doesn't look like anything I've ever seen before except >> maybe macOS; on Linux the scrollbar looks nothing like the >> wonderfully rendered LC-native scrollbar control, and is also inset >> from the right side by several pixels. http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19755 >> - Any way to switch the disclosure triangle to "+"/"-" per the >> Windows HIG when running on Windows? http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19756 -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From paul at researchware.com Sat May 27 18:32:47 2017 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Sat, 27 May 2017 18:32:47 -0400 Subject: Answer file under OSX and cross platform file names Message-ID: OSX allows the slash character in file and folder names. LiveCode uses the slash as the delimiter between path items in file paths. So when you execute: answer file "Pick an OSX file with a slash in the name" put it Livecode substitutes a colon for the slash in the name. Colon is an illegal character for file names under OSX. Likewise if you have code that tests for a file (or any file operation) that contains a colon, LiveCode replaces it with a slash for the operation. i.e. put (there is a file "my:file.txt") -- produces true of there is an OSX file "my/file.txt" in the default folder This is all great for handling files on OSX, but if your application saves file names and is used cross-platform (i.e. say under Windows as well as OSX), then the colon is a problem because colons are not allowed in Windows file names. This is also a slight cosmetic issue under OSX since if you display the file name the user responded with, it does not match the name the user selected as the slash has been replaced by a colon. Now both issue - cross platform file name use and the cosmetic issue of displaying the file on OSX - are easily resolved in code. My issue is that no where in the Dictionary (that I can find) does it note that slashes in OSX names are replaced with colon in LiveCode. This documentation omission has consumed a lot of time on my part discovering this little annoyance. So, for documentation errors or enhancements, do I file a quality center report? The only options in the popup are bug or enhancement. Should there be a 3rd option for Documentation so such documentation issues can easily be searched and segregated? From sundown at pacifier.com Sat May 27 21:23:58 2017 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Sat, 27 May 2017 18:23:58 -0700 Subject: File - read from EOF Message-ID: <8D4E91FA-5B68-4B23-9A9E-26218B1895CF@pacifier.com> I want to read a file as binary of any size but as crazy as it sounds I want to read in sections form the EOF and stop at the beginning of the file instead reading from the start to EOF. I have no problems opening, reading and closing files or reading in sections. Does anyone know the easiest way to determine when I reach the start of the file similar to using EOF to stop reading at the end of the file? JB From bonnmike at gmail.com Sat May 27 22:50:51 2017 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Sat, 27 May 2017 20:50:51 -0600 Subject: File - read from EOF In-Reply-To: <8D4E91FA-5B68-4B23-9A9E-26218B1895CF@pacifier.com> References: <8D4E91FA-5B68-4B23-9A9E-26218B1895CF@pacifier.com> Message-ID: I think you need to do the following First get the length in bytes of the file get the number of bytes in url ("binfile:" & yourfile) I have a file that I just did this on and there are 289558088 bytes Then you can either start reading at byte -whatever to -1 to grab the last part, adjusting the numbers for each read till you get done. Or of course read bytes from whateverposition to 289558088 and adjust those numbers each loop. Untried, and outside my specific areas of knowledge, but I think it should work fine. On Sat, May 27, 2017 at 7:23 PM, JB via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I want to read a file as binary of any > size but as crazy as it sounds I want > to read in sections form the EOF and > stop at the beginning of the file instead > reading from the start to EOF. > > I have no problems opening, reading and > closing files or reading in sections. > > Does anyone know the easiest way > to determine when I reach the start > of the file similar to using EOF to > stop reading at the end of the file? > > JB > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From sundown at pacifier.com Sat May 27 23:15:16 2017 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Sat, 27 May 2017 20:15:16 -0700 Subject: File - read from EOF In-Reply-To: References: <8D4E91FA-5B68-4B23-9A9E-26218B1895CF@pacifier.com> Message-ID: Hi Mike, That sounds really good! thank you very much, JB > On May 27, 2017, at 7:50 PM, Mike Bonner via use-livecode wrote: > > I think you need to do the following > > First get the length in bytes of the file > get the number of bytes in url ("binfile:" & yourfile) > > I have a file that I just did this on and there are 289558088 bytes > > Then you can either start reading at byte -whatever to -1 to grab the last > part, adjusting the numbers for each read till you get done. > > Or of course read bytes from whateverposition to 289558088 and adjust those > numbers each loop. > > Untried, and outside my specific areas of knowledge, but I think it should > work fine. > > > > On Sat, May 27, 2017 at 7:23 PM, JB via use-livecode < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> I want to read a file as binary of any >> size but as crazy as it sounds I want >> to read in sections form the EOF and >> stop at the beginning of the file instead >> reading from the start to EOF. >> >> I have no problems opening, reading and >> closing files or reading in sections. >> >> Does anyone know the easiest way >> to determine when I reach the start >> of the file similar to using EOF to >> stop reading at the end of the file? >> >> JB >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From brahma at hindu.org Sat May 27 23:39:03 2017 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Sun, 28 May 2017 03:39:03 +0000 Subject: FTP from iOS but getting tsneterr: (67) Access denied: 530 In-Reply-To: <7581c047-048f-7681-eb4a-64789d602e6e@fourthworld.com> References: <004901d2d5b9$c2d71fb0$48855f10$@net> <7581c047-048f-7681-eb4a-64789d602e6e@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Richard Gaskin via use-livecode" wrote: ("ftp://FTPusername:FTPpassword at mydomain.on-rev.com/somepath/somefile.ext") Would that be "ftps://..."? @ Charles I have the same (or perhaps similar) question. If using sftp://username:password at mydomain/sompath/somefile.ext is the user name and password "sniffable" I am under the impression it is not as SFTP encrypts *before* sending out the pipe. Is that understanding correct? BR From brahma at hindu.org Sat May 27 23:56:51 2017 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Sun, 28 May 2017 03:56:51 +0000 Subject: Open Inv Stack on iPhone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <05CA7481-7635-4AB1-9583-D619E2ED17A6@hindu.org> we have been playing with this open, close, show, destroy, stacks on mobile for several months FWIW, if you use dispatch to a stack, even if it has GUI on card 1? it just opens in memory but not visible. if you run "go" later the stack will top level (as you would expect) #stack MyLibraryWGUI stack script on wakeMe # do nothing end wakeMe dispatch "wakeMe" to stack " MyLibraryWGUI " # assumes the stack is in the stack files # OK if you do this you will not see it open in the IDE (or on a phone) but you can see it open in the project browser. # Caveat: PB runtime updating is still flaky (9.dp5), you have to close the PB and reopen it. you will see the stack is loaded by not visible. It's now in the msg path. Later if you if want toplevel it: go to stack "MyLibraryWGUI" Working here on desktop and mobile. Send would probably also load the stack (not tested) BR On 5/25/17, 12:05 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Dan Friedman via use-livecode" wrote: Mark, Good suggestion! But, I will need to display the stack at some point. There must be a reason why this is failing. Perhaps someone at LC will see this post and shed some light. -Dan From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sun May 28 04:05:15 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Sun, 28 May 2017 11:05:15 +0300 Subject: Importing HTML UniCode text into LiveCode Message-ID: <8036a553-3ad9-0698-83df-891aceb0053f@gmail.com> So: Having exported Unicode text from my Devawriter Pro to HTML (which shows up in a Web Browser alright *IFF* the text encoding is set to 'Unicode'), on REIMPORTING that HTML file I get something that does NOT look the same at all. My script WAS set to this: set the htmlText of fld "fld" to URL ("file:" & it) trying to "be clever" I changed it to: set the htmlText of fld "fld" to the uniEncode of URL ("file:" & it) and got DIFFERENT gobbledegook (sheer joy). I changed things to this: setthehtmlTextoffld "fld" touniEncode(URL ("file:" & it),"w") and got a line of question marks ???????????????????????????? this: setthehtmlTextoffld "fld" touniEncode(URL ("file:" & it),"Unicode") did the same, this: setthehtmlTextoffld "fld" touniEncode(URL ("file:" & it),"UTF8") gave me something where about 90% of the text was displayed correctly; the rest was nonsense. Richmond. From janschenkel at yahoo.com Sun May 28 04:22:41 2017 From: janschenkel at yahoo.com (Jan Schenkel) Date: Sun, 28 May 2017 08:22:41 +0000 (UTC) Subject: File - read from EOF References: <178473913.1684423.1495959761817.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <178473913.1684423.1495959761817@mail.yahoo.com> On Sun, 5/28/17, JB via use-livecode wrote: > > Subject: File - read from EOF > To: "How to use LiveCode" > Cc: "JB" > Date: Sunday, May 28, 2017, 2:23 AM > > I want to read a file as binary of any > size but as crazy as it sounds I want > to read in sections form the EOF and > stop at the beginning of the file > instead > reading from the start to EOF. > > I have no problems opening, reading > and > closing files or reading in sections. > > Does anyone know the easiest way > to determine when I reach the start > of the file similar to using EOF to > stop reading at the end of the file? > > JB > Hi JB, You could always read the file straight into a variable and then check the number of bytes. But if it's a very large file then you could run out of memory space (at least until we get a 64-bit engine on Windows) >From your description, it sounds like you don't need the entire content and want to cruise around the file on disk to extract bits. In that case, you can quickly determine the file size using the 'detailed files' functionality. I wrote a utility function for that a long time ago; here it is: -- function qrtUtil_FileSize pFilePath local tFolderPath, tFileName set the itemDelimiter to slash put item 1 to -2 of pFilePath into tFolderPath put item -1 of pFilePath into tFileName local tDefaultFolder, tDetailedFiles put the defaultFolder into tDefaultFolder set the defaultFolder to tFolderPath put the detailed files into tDetailedFiles set the defaultFolder to tDefaultFolder filter tDetailedFiles with (tFileName & ",*") set the itemDelimiter to comma return item 2 of tDetailedFiles end qrtUtil_FileSize -- HTH, Jan Schenkel. ===== Quartam Reports & PDF Library for LiveCode www.quartam.com ===== "As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time." (La Rochefoucauld) From james at thehales.id.au Sun May 28 04:36:35 2017 From: james at thehales.id.au (james at thehales.id.au) Date: Sun, 28 May 2017 18:36:35 +1000 Subject: Importing HTML UniCode text into LiveCode Message-ID: <82D9F555-890E-4F89-9D30-538CDF8572C4@thehales.id.au> Try textDecode(thefilecontent, "UTF8") or maybe 'utf16' given this is what LC is using internally. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sun May 28 04:41:45 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Sun, 28 May 2017 11:41:45 +0300 Subject: Importing HTML UniCode text into LiveCode In-Reply-To: <82D9F555-890E-4F89-9D30-538CDF8572C4@thehales.id.au> References: <82D9F555-890E-4F89-9D30-538CDF8572C4@thehales.id.au> Message-ID: <9894445d-a15b-7bf3-8f99-0aa8c69168b0@gmail.com> Thanks a bucket: that hit the thing on the head first time. Best, Richmond. On 5/28/17 11:36 am, james--- via use-livecode wrote: > Try textDecode(thefilecontent, "UTF8") or maybe 'utf16' given this is what LC is using internally. > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sun May 28 05:21:44 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Sun, 28 May 2017 12:21:44 +0300 Subject: Second stumbling block Message-ID: <42e87152-7e54-66f6-defe-f3a9fda912a6@gmail.com> Here's a right &*^%$# with *textField*s: I have thousands of scripts that go something a bit like this: *set****the****text****of****the****selectedText****to****numToCodePoint**(107)* and when one is activated it pops the designated Unicode Glyph *INTO* the place in the text inwith a textField where the user has set the cursor . . . and THAT is *groovy* . . . BUT, then the cursor jumps to the end of the text line which is *extremely ungroovy* as I want it to remain straight after the glyph it has just inserted in the textField . . . Richmond. From colinholgate at gmail.com Sun May 28 05:27:37 2017 From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate) Date: Sun, 28 May 2017 10:27:37 +0100 Subject: Second stumbling block In-Reply-To: <42e87152-7e54-66f6-defe-f3a9fda912a6@gmail.com> References: <42e87152-7e54-66f6-defe-f3a9fda912a6@gmail.com> Message-ID: <972B5A2F-6580-4A9C-A5A8-11DFCF0DC152@gmail.com> I just tried that, and the insertion point seems to be right after the new character. At least it is in LiveCode 8. > On May 28, 2017, at 10:21 AM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: > > Here's a right &*^%$# with *textField*s: > > I have thousands of scripts that go something a bit like this: > > *set****the****text****of****the****selectedText****to****numToCodePoint**(107)* > > and when one is activated it pops the designated Unicode Glyph *INTO* the place > in the text inwith a textField where the user has set the cursor . . . > > and THAT is *groovy* . . . > > BUT, then the cursor jumps to the end of the text line which is *extremely ungroovy* > > as I want it to remain straight after the glyph it has just inserted in the textField . . . > > Richmond. From colinholgate at gmail.com Sun May 28 05:35:29 2017 From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate) Date: Sun, 28 May 2017 10:35:29 +0100 Subject: nice Sierra feature Message-ID: Was just testing something and needed to look up a function in the dictionary. As can often happen, especially when you frequently alternate between using one and two monitors, the top of the dictionary window was underneath the macOS menubar. To fix that in the past I would do something on the lines of put the windows, figure out that the window is called revDictionary, then set the top of window revDictionary to 100. In Sierra there is the tab bar area in each window, which lets you dock windows together. When you drag that area you get a translucent thumbnail image of the window, and if you release when not on top of another window it has the effect of moving the window to that location. Which means that if the titlebar of a window is under the system menu, but you can grab the tab bar, you can quickly move the window fully into view. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sun May 28 06:01:08 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Sun, 28 May 2017 13:01:08 +0300 Subject: Second stumbling block In-Reply-To: <972B5A2F-6580-4A9C-A5A8-11DFCF0DC152@gmail.com> References: <42e87152-7e54-66f6-defe-f3a9fda912a6@gmail.com> <972B5A2F-6580-4A9C-A5A8-11DFCF0DC152@gmail.com> Message-ID: <67104ae0-f5a8-0945-d117-cc1fa14ab36d@gmail.com> It does: Thanks for pointing that out as it made me look more closely at my code and work out that the cause of this was something else, which I have now rectified. Richmond. On 5/28/17 12:27 pm, Colin Holgate via use-livecode wrote: > I just tried that, and the insertion point seems to be right after the new character. At least it is in LiveCode 8. > > >> On May 28, 2017, at 10:21 AM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: >> >> Here's a right &*^%$# with *textField*s: >> >> I have thousands of scripts that go something a bit like this: >> >> *set****the****text****of****the****selectedText****to****numToCodePoint**(107)* >> >> and when one is activated it pops the designated Unicode Glyph *INTO* the place >> in the text inwith a textField where the user has set the cursor . . . >> >> and THAT is *groovy* . . . >> >> BUT, then the cursor jumps to the end of the text line which is *extremely ungroovy* >> >> as I want it to remain straight after the glyph it has just inserted in the textField . . . >> >> Richmond. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Sun May 28 06:27:54 2017 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Sun, 28 May 2017 06:27:54 -0400 Subject: nice Sierra feature In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: IIRC, in Linux a window can be moved by right-clicking and selecting 'move', then drag from anywhere within the frame. On May 28, 2017 5:35 AM, "Colin Holgate via use-livecode" < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Was just testing something and needed to look up a function in the > dictionary. As can often happen, especially when you frequently alternate > between using one and two monitors, the top of the dictionary window was > underneath the macOS menubar. To fix that in the past I would do something > on the lines of put the windows, figure out that the window is called > revDictionary, then set the top of window revDictionary to 100. > > In Sierra there is the tab bar area in each window, which lets you dock > windows together. When you drag that area you get a translucent thumbnail > image of the window, and if you release when not on top of another window > it has the effect of moving the window to that location. Which means that > if the titlebar of a window is under the system menu, but you can grab the > tab bar, you can quickly move the window fully into view. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From colinholgate at gmail.com Sun May 28 06:50:16 2017 From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate) Date: Sun, 28 May 2017 11:50:16 +0100 Subject: nice Sierra feature In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9C7FFCE6-341E-4799-8ABF-923634FF84DA@gmail.com> There?s just a Reload option in macOS right-click. > On May 28, 2017, at 11:27 AM, Roger Eller via use-livecode wrote: > > IIRC, in Linux a window can be moved by right-clicking and selecting > 'move', then drag from anywhere within the frame. > > On May 28, 2017 5:35 AM, "Colin Holgate via use-livecode" < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> Was just testing something and needed to look up a function in the >> dictionary. As can often happen, especially when you frequently alternate >> between using one and two monitors, the top of the dictionary window was >> underneath the macOS menubar. To fix that in the past I would do something >> on the lines of put the windows, figure out that the window is called >> revDictionary, then set the top of window revDictionary to 100. >> >> In Sierra there is the tab bar area in each window, which lets you dock >> windows together. When you drag that area you get a translucent thumbnail >> image of the window, and if you release when not on top of another window >> it has the effect of moving the window to that location. Which means that >> if the titlebar of a window is under the system menu, but you can grab the >> tab bar, you can quickly move the window fully into view. From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sun May 28 11:26:47 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sun, 28 May 2017 08:26:47 -0700 Subject: File - read from EOF In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0304f973-319e-3aad-cff9-fb1b1623e027@fourthworld.com> Mike Bonner wrote: > On Sat, May 27, 2017 at 7:23 PM, JB wrote: >> I want to read a file as binary of any >> size but as crazy as it sounds I want >> to read in sections form the EOF and >> stop at the beginning of the file instead >> reading from the start to EOF. >> >> I have no problems opening, reading and >> closing files or reading in sections. >> >> Does anyone know the easiest way >> to determine when I reach the start >> of the file similar to using EOF to >> stop reading at the end of the file? > > > I think you need to do the following > > First get the length in bytes of the file > get the number of bytes in url ("binfile:" & yourfile) That'll work well for files that can fit comfortably into memory, but IIRC using "URL" will effectively do a sort of "GET", reading the file from disk. And of course, if the file's contents fit comfortably in memory, the subsequent operations to obtain sections of it would be much faster if done on that copy. For files larger than can be comfortably worked on in RAM, we currently have no truly efficient way to do this, only ways that vary in degrees of inefficiency. :) What would be ideal is to use the OS-provided APIs for obtaining file info for a specific file, but in LC right now we only have a way to get that info (and LOTS of other info!) for all files in a directory at once. When a folder contains only a few files it's not much of a problem, but with thousands of files it's far less efficient than if the request -hh submitted for single-file info were implemented: http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18010 Given how often this comes up in the forums, and the general tediousness of having to get/set the working directory and parsing "the detailed files", hopefully that'll be done soon. In the meantime, I use this function to obtain specific file info for a given file: function fwFileInfo pFilePath, pElem -- For the file specified in pFilePath, returns the metadata element -- specified in pElem, where pElem is one of: -- name = short file, URL-encoded -- size = data fork size, in bytes -- resSize = resource fork size, in bytes (macOS only) -- creationDate = creation date in seconds -- modDate = last modification date, in seconds -- accessDate = last access date, in seconds -- backupDate = last backup date, in seconds -- userOwner = User owner (Linux and macOS only) -- groupOwner = Group owner (Linux and macOS only). -- permissions = Unix-style permissions (Linux and macOS only) -- macType = MacOS Classic creator and type codes (macOS only). -- If no valid element is specified the full comma-delimited entry -- for the file is returned. -- local tFileName, tSaveDir, tFileList, tElems, tElemN -- set the itemDelimiter to "/" put urlEncode(last item of pFilePath) into tFileName delete last item of pFilePath put the directory into tSaveDir set the directory to pFilePath put the detailed files into tFileList set the directory to tSaveDir filter tFileList with tFileName &",*" -- set the itemdel to "," put "name,size,resSize,CreationDate,ModDate,AccessDate," & \ "BackupDate,"UserOwner,GroupOwner,Permissions,MacType" into tElems put itemoffset(pElem, tElems) into tElemN if tElemN = 0 then return tFileList else return item tElemN of tFileList end if end fwFileInfo This is similar to the one Jan posted this morning for obtaining file size at , but unfortunately that function overlooks one of the many details of this that make this task so tedious: On macOS it's common for some older folder metadata files to have CRs in their names, which would break the formatting of the CR-delimited return value. File names may also contain commas, which would similarly break the comma-delimited rows in that return value. To counter these, the file and folder names returned with the "detailed" lists are URL-encoded, which does a fine job of handling characters which would break the output format, but requires us to keep that in mind and convert the incoming short file name when filtering from the list. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ahsoftware at sonic.net Sun May 28 11:28:08 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sun, 28 May 2017 08:28:08 -0700 Subject: nice Sierra feature In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 05/28/2017 02:35 AM, Colin Holgate via use-livecode wrote: > Was just testing something and needed to look up a function in the dictionary. As can often happen, especially when you frequently alternate between using one and two monitors, the top of the dictionary window was underneath the macOS menubar. To fix that in the past I would do something on the lines of put the windows, figure out that the window is called revDictionary, then set the top of window revDictionary to 100. On linux you can alt-click to grab and move a window. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From bonnmike at gmail.com Sun May 28 11:45:39 2017 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Sun, 28 May 2017 09:45:39 -0600 Subject: File - read from EOF In-Reply-To: <0304f973-319e-3aad-cff9-fb1b1623e027@fourthworld.com> References: <0304f973-319e-3aad-cff9-fb1b1623e027@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Thanks for letting me know the limitations of the method I offered. Now that you point it out, it makes sense since it'd be rather tough to do a count of something that isn't entirely accessible beginning to end. The detailed files method is definitely better. I guess one could go read a file byte by byte for the sole purpose of finding the length, but that'd be a silly duplication of effort. On Sun, May 28, 2017 at 9:26 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Mike Bonner wrote: > > > On Sat, May 27, 2017 at 7:23 PM, JB wrote: > >> I want to read a file as binary of any > >> size but as crazy as it sounds I want > >> to read in sections form the EOF and > >> stop at the beginning of the file instead > >> reading from the start to EOF. > >> > >> I have no problems opening, reading and > >> closing files or reading in sections. > >> > >> Does anyone know the easiest way > >> to determine when I reach the start > >> of the file similar to using EOF to > >> stop reading at the end of the file? > > > > > > I think you need to do the following > > > > First get the length in bytes of the file > > get the number of bytes in url ("binfile:" & yourfile) > > That'll work well for files that can fit comfortably into memory, but IIRC > using "URL" will effectively do a sort of "GET", reading the file from disk. > > And of course, if the file's contents fit comfortably in memory, the > subsequent operations to obtain sections of it would be much faster if done > on that copy. > > For files larger than can be comfortably worked on in RAM, we currently > have no truly efficient way to do this, only ways that vary in degrees of > inefficiency. :) > > What would be ideal is to use the OS-provided APIs for obtaining file info > for a specific file, but in LC right now we only have a way to get that > info (and LOTS of other info!) for all files in a directory at once. > > When a folder contains only a few files it's not much of a problem, but > with thousands of files it's far less efficient than if the request -hh > submitted for single-file info were implemented: > http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18010 > > Given how often this comes up in the forums, and the general tediousness > of having to get/set the working directory and parsing "the detailed > files", hopefully that'll be done soon. > > In the meantime, I use this function to obtain specific file info for a > given file: > > > function fwFileInfo pFilePath, pElem > -- For the file specified in pFilePath, returns the metadata element > -- specified in pElem, where pElem is one of: > -- name = short file, URL-encoded > -- size = data fork size, in bytes > -- resSize = resource fork size, in bytes (macOS only) > -- creationDate = creation date in seconds > -- modDate = last modification date, in seconds > -- accessDate = last access date, in seconds > -- backupDate = last backup date, in seconds > -- userOwner = User owner (Linux and macOS only) > -- groupOwner = Group owner (Linux and macOS only). > -- permissions = Unix-style permissions (Linux and macOS only) > -- macType = MacOS Classic creator and type codes (macOS only). > -- If no valid element is specified the full comma-delimited entry > -- for the file is returned. > -- > local tFileName, tSaveDir, tFileList, tElems, tElemN > -- > set the itemDelimiter to "/" > put urlEncode(last item of pFilePath) into tFileName > delete last item of pFilePath > put the directory into tSaveDir > set the directory to pFilePath > put the detailed files into tFileList > set the directory to tSaveDir > filter tFileList with tFileName &",*" > -- > set the itemdel to "," > put "name,size,resSize,CreationDate,ModDate,AccessDate," & \ > "BackupDate,"UserOwner,GroupOwner,Permissions,MacType" into tElems > put itemoffset(pElem, tElems) into tElemN > if tElemN = 0 then > return tFileList > else > return item tElemN of tFileList > end if > end fwFileInfo > > > This is similar to the one Jan posted this morning for obtaining file size > at , > but unfortunately that function overlooks one of the many details of this > that make this task so tedious: > > On macOS it's common for some older folder metadata files to have CRs in > their names, which would break the formatting of the CR-delimited return > value. File names may also contain commas, which would similarly break the > comma-delimited rows in that return value. > > To counter these, the file and folder names returned with the "detailed" > lists are URL-encoded, which does a fine job of handling characters which > would break the output format, but requires us to keep that in mind and > convert the incoming short file name when filtering from the list. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sun May 28 11:54:55 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Sun, 28 May 2017 18:54:55 +0300 Subject: File - read from EOF In-Reply-To: References: <0304f973-319e-3aad-cff9-fb1b1623e027@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <5b8263c0-331f-4158-0d44-217a9dbe9940@gmail.com> Personally I'd do something "totally mental": I'd import the file contents into a field, reverse its order and work on from there. Richmond. From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sun May 28 12:08:42 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sun, 28 May 2017 09:08:42 -0700 Subject: nice Sierra feature In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <940a1502-e457-7fe0-b2a9-18e11009c5f4@fourthworld.com> Mark Wieder wrote: > On linux you can alt-click to grab and move a window. ...which is both great and horrible. It's handy, of course, but it also means not being able to rely on Alt-click in our UIs. In many cases I've migrated some Alt-click functionality to Shift-click, but it's nice to have both mod keys available, and some things make more semantic sense with Alt rather than Shift. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ahsoftware at sonic.net Sun May 28 12:27:21 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sun, 28 May 2017 09:27:21 -0700 Subject: nice Sierra feature In-Reply-To: <940a1502-e457-7fe0-b2a9-18e11009c5f4@fourthworld.com> References: <940a1502-e457-7fe0-b2a9-18e11009c5f4@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <320dfec9-5824-82f3-615e-3ad04c38c899@sonic.net> On 05/28/2017 09:08 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > Mark Wieder wrote: > >> On linux you can alt-click to grab and move a window. > > ...which is both great and horrible. > > It's handy, of course, but it also means not being able to rely on > Alt-click in our UIs. > > In many cases I've migrated some Alt-click functionality to Shift-click, > but it's nice to have both mod keys available, and some things make more > semantic sense with Alt rather than Shift. > Indeed. That messed me up earlier on in glx2, where mapping the osx command and option keys to other platforms had a few interesting events. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From sundown at pacifier.com Sun May 28 12:42:19 2017 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Sun, 28 May 2017 09:42:19 -0700 Subject: File - read from EOF In-Reply-To: <0304f973-319e-3aad-cff9-fb1b1623e027@fourthworld.com> References: <0304f973-319e-3aad-cff9-fb1b1623e027@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Thanks, Richard JB > On May 28, 2017, at 8:26 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > Mike Bonner wrote: > > > On Sat, May 27, 2017 at 7:23 PM, JB wrote: > >> I want to read a file as binary of any > >> size but as crazy as it sounds I want > >> to read in sections form the EOF and > >> stop at the beginning of the file instead > >> reading from the start to EOF. > >> > >> I have no problems opening, reading and > >> closing files or reading in sections. > >> > >> Does anyone know the easiest way > >> to determine when I reach the start > >> of the file similar to using EOF to > >> stop reading at the end of the file? > > > > > > I think you need to do the following > > > > First get the length in bytes of the file > > get the number of bytes in url ("binfile:" & yourfile) > > That'll work well for files that can fit comfortably into memory, but IIRC using "URL" will effectively do a sort of "GET", reading the file from disk. > > And of course, if the file's contents fit comfortably in memory, the subsequent operations to obtain sections of it would be much faster if done on that copy. > > For files larger than can be comfortably worked on in RAM, we currently have no truly efficient way to do this, only ways that vary in degrees of inefficiency. :) > > What would be ideal is to use the OS-provided APIs for obtaining file info for a specific file, but in LC right now we only have a way to get that info (and LOTS of other info!) for all files in a directory at once. > > When a folder contains only a few files it's not much of a problem, but with thousands of files it's far less efficient than if the request -hh submitted for single-file info were implemented: > http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18010 > > Given how often this comes up in the forums, and the general tediousness of having to get/set the working directory and parsing "the detailed files", hopefully that'll be done soon. > > In the meantime, I use this function to obtain specific file info for a given file: > > > function fwFileInfo pFilePath, pElem > -- For the file specified in pFilePath, returns the metadata element > -- specified in pElem, where pElem is one of: > -- name = short file, URL-encoded > -- size = data fork size, in bytes > -- resSize = resource fork size, in bytes (macOS only) > -- creationDate = creation date in seconds > -- modDate = last modification date, in seconds > -- accessDate = last access date, in seconds > -- backupDate = last backup date, in seconds > -- userOwner = User owner (Linux and macOS only) > -- groupOwner = Group owner (Linux and macOS only). > -- permissions = Unix-style permissions (Linux and macOS only) > -- macType = MacOS Classic creator and type codes (macOS only). > -- If no valid element is specified the full comma-delimited entry > -- for the file is returned. > -- > local tFileName, tSaveDir, tFileList, tElems, tElemN > -- > set the itemDelimiter to "/" > put urlEncode(last item of pFilePath) into tFileName > delete last item of pFilePath > put the directory into tSaveDir > set the directory to pFilePath > put the detailed files into tFileList > set the directory to tSaveDir > filter tFileList with tFileName &",*" > -- > set the itemdel to "," > put "name,size,resSize,CreationDate,ModDate,AccessDate," & \ > "BackupDate,"UserOwner,GroupOwner,Permissions,MacType" into tElems > put itemoffset(pElem, tElems) into tElemN > if tElemN = 0 then > return tFileList > else > return item tElemN of tFileList > end if > end fwFileInfo > > > This is similar to the one Jan posted this morning for obtaining file size at , but unfortunately that function overlooks one of the many details of this that make this task so tedious: > > On macOS it's common for some older folder metadata files to have CRs in their names, which would break the formatting of the CR-delimited return value. File names may also contain commas, which would similarly break the comma-delimited rows in that return value. > > To counter these, the file and folder names returned with the "detailed" lists are URL-encoded, which does a fine job of handling characters which would break the output format, but requires us to keep that in mind and convert the incoming short file name when filtering from the list. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From hh at hyperhh.de Sun May 28 13:37:35 2017 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Sun, 28 May 2017 19:37:35 +0200 Subject: File - read from EOF Message-ID: > JB wrote: > ... I want to read in sections from the EOF and > stop at the beginning of the file instead reading > from the start to EOF. > > I have no problems opening, reading and > closing files or reading in sections. > > Does anyone know the easiest way to determine > when I reach the start of the file similar to > using EOF to stop reading at the end of the file? As you know how to read in sections: Simply read one section after the next one until it is empty. From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sun May 28 13:47:10 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sun, 28 May 2017 10:47:10 -0700 Subject: FTP from iOS but getting tsneterr: (67) Access denied: 530 Message-ID: <66968162-c31d-78c7-ca09-304e5b34f18c@fourthworld.com> Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote: > If using > sftp://username:password at mydomain/sompath/somefile.ext > is the user name and password "sniffable" > > I am under the impression it is not as SFTP encrypts *before* sending > out the pipe. > > Is that understanding correct? Yes, that's the key benefit of SFTP and FTPS over the older FTP, since the latter is effectively handing control of you server over to any man-in-the-middle. FTPS works similarly to HTTPS, and requires an SSL certificate on the server. SFTP uses SSH, and does not requires a cert. The differences are summarized here: But either will establish a secure channel with the server before negotiating login. One challenge with either is that unless you use shared SSH keys with SFTP (suitable only for admin tasks), they require embedding login credentials in code. LC's script encryption isn't bad, but it's generally good practice to avoid embedded passwords whenever practical (everything is crackable, sometimes we forget to encrypt a stack, etc.). Given that, and the general inefficiency of FTP for cases where you just want to move data from client to server, more commonly that need is addressed with an HTTP API on the server, which can be done with any server process that allows scripting, including PHP, Perl, Python, JavaScript, or a LiveCode Server CGI, as described here: FTP is great for ad hoc access to server files, like when you need to navigate among files, etc. But there are better tools for most other use-cases, like rsync and scp for admin tasks and HTTP for most non-admin tasks. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From sundown at pacifier.com Sun May 28 15:04:56 2017 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Sun, 28 May 2017 12:04:56 -0700 Subject: File - read from EOF In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: That did not work for me. When I read the data is put into it so I was putting empty into it after the read to make sure it was clear. I tried not putting empty into it and used, repeat until it = empty but apparently it never became empty. JB > On May 28, 2017, at 10:37 AM, hh via use-livecode wrote: > >> JB wrote: >> ... I want to read in sections from the EOF and >> stop at the beginning of the file instead reading >> from the start to EOF. >> >> I have no problems opening, reading and >> closing files or reading in sections. >> >> Does anyone know the easiest way to determine >> when I reach the start of the file similar to >> using EOF to stop reading at the end of the file? > > As you know how to read in sections: > Simply read one section after the next one until > it is empty. > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From hh at hyperhh.de Sun May 28 16:29:33 2017 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Sun, 28 May 2017 22:29:33 +0200 Subject: File - read from EOF Message-ID: [This certainly depends upon how you read 'sections'. If one uses a separator and search backwards then you'll get empty before the first if at start of file.] When testing this 'ineffective' way (because of searching backwards) I found a better method: Say your separator is for example c0=numToChar(0) and assume you would like to have the sections as they are (not the chars reversed). Then you could read once thru the file (don't read in the full file) and collect the lengths of your sections by "read from file until c0" in an array. Then you know the number and lengths of your sections and you could use "repeat for each" to read in the sections you want and in the order you want. (Using negative start numbers may be comfortable here.) This works here and LC is very fast with this. > JB wrote: > That did not work for me. When I read the data is > put into it so I was putting empty into it after the > read to make sure it was clear. > I tried not putting empty into it and used, > repeat until it = empty > but apparently it never became empty. > > > hh wrote: > >> JB wrote: > >> ... I want to read in sections from the EOF and > >> stop at the beginning of the file instead reading > >> from the start to EOF. > >> I have no problems opening, reading and > >> closing files or reading in sections. > >> Does anyone know the easiest way to determine > >> when I reach the start of the file similar to > >> using EOF to stop reading at the end of the file? > > > > As you know how to read in sections: > > Simply read one section after the next one until > > it is empty. From sundown at pacifier.com Sun May 28 17:02:09 2017 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Sun, 28 May 2017 14:02:09 -0700 Subject: File - read from EOF In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks for the info! I almost have it by keeping track of what is read. While Livecode is very fast with text I am trying to keep the process a small as possible. If I am working of 350 files a fews seconds on each file adds up a lot. JB > On May 28, 2017, at 1:29 PM, hh via use-livecode wrote: > > [This certainly depends upon how you read 'sections'. > If one uses a separator and search backwards then you'll get empty > before the first if at start of file.] > > When testing this 'ineffective' way (because of searching backwards) > I found a better method: > > Say your separator is for example c0=numToChar(0) and assume you > would like to have the sections as they are (not the chars reversed). > > Then you could read once thru the file (don't read in the full file) > and collect the lengths of your sections by "read from file until c0" > in an array. > Then you know the number and lengths of your sections and you could > use "repeat for each" to read in the sections you want and in the > order you want. (Using negative start numbers may be comfortable here.) > > This works here and LC is very fast with this. > >> JB wrote: >> That did not work for me. When I read the data is >> put into it so I was putting empty into it after the >> read to make sure it was clear. >> I tried not putting empty into it and used, >> repeat until it = empty >> but apparently it never became empty. >> >>> hh wrote: >>>> JB wrote: >>>> ... I want to read in sections from the EOF and >>>> stop at the beginning of the file instead reading >>>> from the start to EOF. >>>> I have no problems opening, reading and >>>> closing files or reading in sections. >>>> Does anyone know the easiest way to determine >>>> when I reach the start of the file similar to >>>> using EOF to stop reading at the end of the file? >>> >>> As you know how to read in sections: >>> Simply read one section after the next one until >>> it is empty. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sun May 28 17:18:02 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sun, 28 May 2017 14:18:02 -0700 Subject: File - read from EOF In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <31cc828a-5c44-6287-3bb0-dacf827b1563@fourthworld.com> JB wrote: > When I read the data is put into it so I was putting empty > into it after the read to make sure it was clear. > > I tried not putting empty into it and used, > repeat until it = empty > > but apparently it never became empty. When I read your earlier description I thought you were reading only portions of the file. It seems here you're processing all of the data in the file. What are you doing with the data? I wonder if there may be an opportunity to simplify things by reading the file in its natural order, and reversing the results derived from it. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From hh at hyperhh.de Sun May 28 17:33:44 2017 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Sun, 28 May 2017 23:33:44 +0200 Subject: Using alt-key clicks on linux Message-ID: [I take the liberty to move this to a new thread in order to have a more appropriate subject] > Richard Gaskin wrote (in thread 'nice Sierra feature'): >>> Mark Wieder wrote: >>> On linux you can alt-click to grab and move a window. > > ... which is both great and horrible. > It's handy, of course, but it also means not being able to rely on > Alt-click in our UIs. > In many cases I've migrated some Alt-click functionality to Shift-click, > but it's nice to have both mod keys available, and some things make more > semantic sense with Alt rather than Shift. Because this is so important for a lot of Mac/Win/linux stacks, especially linux-RaspberryPi, I use it there often (and let user's know in the help): [1] *** alt-mouseDown does NOT come through to LC. [2] *** alt-mouseUp works: *** You have to FIRST click the object, THEN -- while the mouse is down -- *** hold the altKey down. (Usually nearly everybody uses the reverse order: first the key then the click). *** So one could say, "alt-click" on linux should be done as "click-alt" *** Try it from a button with on mouseUp put the optionkey into fld 1 end mouseUp Tested on Ubuntu/Mint/Rapbian. From sundown at pacifier.com Sun May 28 17:39:00 2017 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Sun, 28 May 2017 14:39:00 -0700 Subject: File - read from EOF In-Reply-To: <31cc828a-5c44-6287-3bb0-dacf827b1563@fourthworld.com> References: <31cc828a-5c44-6287-3bb0-dacf827b1563@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <9D4B7DBC-48B5-4E19-A9D8-526369067DD7@pacifier.com> Thanks for the suggestion. Actually the way I am processing the data from the end makes it faster for what I need in the long run. I finally got it working but now I need to clean it up and probably re think it again since I did it so many different ways. Thanks to everyone for your help! JB > On May 28, 2017, at 2:18 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > > JB wrote: > > > When I read the data is put into it so I was putting empty > > into it after the read to make sure it was clear. > > > > I tried not putting empty into it and used, > > repeat until it = empty > > > > but apparently it never became empty. > > When I read your earlier description I thought you were reading only portions of the file. It seems here you're processing all of the data in the file. > > What are you doing with the data? > > I wonder if there may be an opportunity to simplify things by reading the file in its natural order, and reversing the results derived from it. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From panos.merakos at livecode.com Mon May 29 07:13:25 2017 From: panos.merakos at livecode.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Mon, 29 May 2017 12:13:25 +0100 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 84 Message-ID: Hi all, Read about new developments in LiveCode open source and the open source community in today's edition of the "This Week in LiveCode" newsletter! Read issue #84 here: https://goo.gl/x5JX4g This is a weekly newsletter about LiveCode, focussing on what's been going on in and around the open source project. New issues will be released weekly on Mondays. We have a dedicated mailing list that will deliver each issue directly to you e-mail, so you don't miss any! If you have anything you'd like mentioned (a project, a discussion somewhere, an upcoming event) then please get in touch. -- Panagiotis Merakos LiveCode Software Developer Everyone Can Create Apps From jonathandlynch at gmail.com Mon May 29 10:10:28 2017 From: jonathandlynch at gmail.com (jonathandlynch at gmail.com) Date: Mon, 29 May 2017 10:10:28 -0400 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 84 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <867FB873-BB14-4794-9325-6AF3A09797B8@gmail.com> I see that you guys added an "exit on suspend" checkbox. Thank you! Sent from my iPhone > On May 29, 2017, at 7:13 AM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode wrote: > > Hi all, > > Read about new developments in LiveCode open source and the open source > community in today's edition of the "This Week in LiveCode" newsletter! > > Read issue #84 here: https://goo.gl/x5JX4g > > This is a weekly newsletter about LiveCode, focussing on what's been > going on in and around the open source project. New issues will be > released weekly on Mondays. We have a dedicated mailing list that will > deliver each issue directly to you e-mail, so you don't miss any! > > If you have anything you'd like mentioned (a project, a discussion > somewhere, an upcoming event) then please get in touch. > > > -- > Panagiotis Merakos > LiveCode Software Developer > > Everyone Can Create Apps > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon May 29 11:30:13 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 29 May 2017 08:30:13 -0700 Subject: Using alt-key clicks on linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: hh wrote: >> Richard Gaskin wrote (in thread 'nice Sierra feature'): >>> Mark Wieder wrote: >>> On linux you can alt-click to grab and move a window. >> >> ... which is both great and horrible. >> It's handy, of course, but it also means not being able to rely on >> Alt-click in our UIs. >> In many cases I've migrated some Alt-click functionality to Shift- >> click, but it's nice to have both mod keys available, and some things >> make more semantic sense with Alt rather than Shift. > > Because this is so important for a lot of Mac/Win/linux stacks, > especially linux-RaspberryPi, I use it there often (and let user's > know in the help): > > [1] > *** alt-mouseDown does NOT come through to LC. > > [2] > *** alt-mouseUp works: > *** You have to FIRST click the object, THEN -- while the mouse is > down -- > *** hold the altKey down. > > (Usually nearly everybody uses the reverse order: first the key then > the click). > *** So one could say, "alt-click" on linux should be done as > "click-alt" *** Or more specifically, clickdown-hold-alt-clickrelease, which is so unusual that I wouldn't expect to be able to explain it to end-users. This behavior can be turned off with Compiz Config, dconf Editor, and other such tools, but in a world where ~80 of users never alter preference settings I wouldn't rely on it. Personally, it seems a bit heavy-handed of the Gnome team to block a modifier key so sweepingly. I may see about submitting an enhancement request to them to change that from Alt-click to Alt-rightclick, which seems far better given how broadly the Alt key us used on other platforms and how relatively seldom it's used for moving windows in Gnome-base desktop environments. But in the meantime, supporting Linux GUIs means dealing with Gnome decisions, so the Alt-click is not easily available for most apps. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ahsoftware at sonic.net Mon May 29 11:58:29 2017 From: ahsoftware at sonic.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Mon, 29 May 2017 08:58:29 -0700 Subject: Using alt-key clicks on linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <996ad572-c42d-d684-94f3-c887725989e0@sonic.net> On 05/29/2017 08:30 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > Personally, it seems a bit heavy-handed of the Gnome team to block a > modifier key so sweepingly. I may see about submitting an enhancement > request to them to change that from Alt-click to Alt-rightclick, which > seems far better given how broadly the Alt key us used on other > platforms and how relatively seldom it's used for moving windows in > Gnome-base desktop environments. I think considering how much of a known behavior this is in the linux desktop world it's unlikely to be changed. True, I wouldn't have made that design decision, but I think it's something we're stuck with. There are lots of decisions I question on other platforms as well (the Start button, naming folders "My ", etc) but they are what they are. I think the only time I really use the alt-click window-moving feature is when LiveCode windows misbehave and end up too tall or on the wrong monitor or behind a menubar. Which is fairly often these days. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From rabit at revigniter.com Mon May 29 12:29:15 2017 From: rabit at revigniter.com (Ralf Bitter) Date: Mon, 29 May 2017 18:29:15 +0200 Subject: tsNet licensing error using the business version of LC server Message-ID: <6747F449-2B4C-4CA8-837C-E7123C1B3143@revigniter.com> LC server yields an error on Ubuntu 16.04 Lts using any LC server business version and the associated tsNet version: ?external: unlicensed (tsNet)? This is strange as there is no licensing issue with the Indy version. Seems the business license being valid needs to be approved somehow, but how do I accomplish this? Ralf From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon May 29 12:33:37 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 29 May 2017 09:33:37 -0700 Subject: Using alt-key clicks on linux In-Reply-To: <996ad572-c42d-d684-94f3-c887725989e0@sonic.net> References: <996ad572-c42d-d684-94f3-c887725989e0@sonic.net> Message-ID: <2ed323e9-ac7d-90f1-6e76-133848929788@fourthworld.com> Mark Wieder wrote: > On 05/29/2017 08:30 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote: > >> Personally, it seems a bit heavy-handed of the Gnome team to block >> a modifier key so sweepingly. I may see about submitting an >> enhancement request to them to change that from Alt-click to >> Alt-rightclick, which seems far better given how broadly the Alt >> key us used on other platforms and how relatively seldom it's >> used for moving windows in Gnome-base desktop environments. > > I think considering how much of a known behavior this is in the linux > desktop world it's unlikely to be changed. True, I wouldn't have made > that design decision, but I think it's something we're stuck with. I suspect you're right. Besides, there is one upside to losing the use of one of the three most common modifier keys: it prompts us to reconsider the role of modifier keys on click actions altogether. As keyboard shortcuts for menu items, Alt and other mod keys work well and can be very important. But part of their importance come from being explicit: you can look at the menu item to learn the shortcut. With click-related actions, mod keys that provide alternate behavior are effectively hidden features. As such, most users may never discover them at all anyway. This relegates them to seldom-needed things, and since they're seldom-needed maybe overloading clicks with different alternate actions for all three main mod keys (Ctrl, Shift, and Alt) would be a bit much anyway. So sacrificing Alt for Shift or Ctrl on click actions isn't so bad after all. If nothing else it reminds us to avoid doing that to begin with. :) Of course there are some rare cases where a shortcut action using a mod key with a click can make sense, such as in a drawing or layout program where so many things are done with mouse actions. But even there we can see how other programs handle that, including LiveCode. For example, on Mac and Windows it's common to duplicate selected objects with Alt-drag (or Option-drag on Mac). On Linux this is done with Ctrl-drag. If we also needed a separate action for Ctrl-drag and we also need to use Shift-drag, only then would be loss of Alt-drag be a problem. But in practice I have to admit it's quite rare to see four different actions for a drag gesture, the default with no mod keys and then different actions for Alt-drag, Shift-drag, and Ctrl-drag. If I were to find myself considering such an unusual number of hidden gesture features, it would seem likely I could move at least one of them to a right-click context menu. > I think the only time I really use the alt-click window-moving feature > is when LiveCode windows misbehave and end up too tall or on the wrong > monitor or behind a menubar. Which is fairly often these days. Yeas ago I would sometimes find myself with windows whose drag bar would submarine beneath LC's menu/toolbar, do I made DeskView, a small utility that has a mini view of your screen with LC windows represented in it, and among other things it allows you to move windows by dragging the mini representations of them in its window. FWIW, it's part of the free devolution toolkit: http://fourthworld.com/products/devolution/index.html -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From hh at hyperhh.de Mon May 29 14:08:07 2017 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Mon, 29 May 2017 20:08:07 +0200 Subject: Using alt-key clicks on linux Message-ID: <408C14F7-4FF8-4AD8-9C68-7A5160983784@hyperhh.de> Richard, now that you essentially said over and over again "it also means not being able to rely on Alt-click in our UIs": I say, still valid and also worth to repeat, there is a difference in "alt-clicking" between alt-mouseDown and alt-mouseUp on linux: [1] *** alt-mouseDown does NOT come through to LC. [2] *** alt-mouseUp works: *** You have to FIRST click the object, THEN -- while the mouse is down -- *** hold the altKey down. Good to know. (What, by the way, also works on MacOS and Win 7-10.) No single user of my stacks had ever a problem with that. > RG wrote: > Or more specifically, clickdown-hold-alt-clickrelease, which is so > unusual that I wouldn't expect to be able to explain it to end-users. To explain the "clickdown-hold-alt-clickrelease" you could try the lines: [a] to have "mouseUp" working you should let the mouse up again some time. [b] for developers: Also add "on mouseRelease; mouseUp; end mouseRelease". Nearly all linux users (incl. Raspi users), are smarter than you believe. From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon May 29 14:31:54 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 29 May 2017 11:31:54 -0700 Subject: Using alt-key clicks on linux In-Reply-To: <408C14F7-4FF8-4AD8-9C68-7A5160983784@hyperhh.de> References: <408C14F7-4FF8-4AD8-9C68-7A5160983784@hyperhh.de> Message-ID: <4d173526-fccf-dc31-aba2-5ba3127e5fd5@fourthworld.com> hh wrote: > Richard, > > now that you essentially said over and over again > "it also means not being able to rely on Alt-click in our UIs": > > I say, still valid and also worth to repeat, there is a difference in > "alt-clicking" between alt-mouseDown and alt-mouseUp on linux: > > [1] > *** alt-mouseDown does NOT come through to LC. > [2] > *** alt-mouseUp works: > *** You have to FIRST click the object, THEN -- while the mouse is > down -- > *** hold the altKey down. > > Good to know. (What, by the way, also works on MacOS and Win 7-10.) > No single user of my stacks had ever a problem with that. > >> RG wrote: >> Or more specifically, clickdown-hold-alt-clickrelease, which is so >> unusual that I wouldn't expect to be able to explain it to end-users. > > To explain the "clickdown-hold-alt-clickrelease" you could try the > lines: > [a] to have "mouseUp" working you should let the mouse up again some > time. > [b] for developers: Also add "on mouseRelease; mouseUp; end > mouseRelease". > > Nearly all linux users (incl. Raspi users), are smarter than you > believe. Sure, it's possible, but not everything that's possible is also desirable. Personally, I think great app design is more a function of discovering what's intuitive than testing cognitive boundaries. But like I wrote earlier, ultimately this is a minor issue, since it relates to hidden features, and a hidden feature is usually an unused feature anyway. So instead of worrying about maximizing mod key use on mouse actions, I'm spending more time finding ways to reduce hidden features altogether. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon May 29 14:38:56 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 29 May 2017 11:38:56 -0700 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 84 Message-ID: <04b72ccd-09b9-3fa9-8da9-1b5af7b4675a@fourthworld.com> panagiotis merakos wrote: > Read issue #84 here: https://goo.gl/x5JX4g Where we find a page that includes: Fix positioning of windows in the Interactive Tutorial if screenPixelScale != 1 "!=" feels pretty natural for expression "not equals", doesn't it? http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2016-March/224709.html My intention here is not to beat a dead horse, but to use ongoing observations like this one to suggest it may be worth resurrecting. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From hh at hyperhh.de Mon May 29 14:44:56 2017 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Mon, 29 May 2017 20:44:56 +0200 Subject: Using alt-key clicks on linux Message-ID: >> hh wrote: >> Nearly all linux users (incl. Raspi users) are smarter than you believe. > RG wrote: > Personally, I think great app design is more a function of discovering > what's intuitive than testing cognitive boundaries. Sorry, I forgot to say that you are an exception: Obviously you are not smarter than you believe ;-) From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon May 29 14:49:50 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 29 May 2017 11:49:50 -0700 Subject: Using alt-key clicks on linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: hh wrote: >>> hh wrote: >>> Nearly all linux users (incl. Raspi users) are smarter than you >>> believe. > >> RG wrote: >> Personally, I think great app design is more a function of >> discovering what's intuitive than testing cognitive boundaries. > > Sorry, I forgot to say that you are an exception: > Obviously you are not smarter than you believe ;-) I'm a victim of the old saying, "if you believe you can't do something, you're right". :) I believe I'm unable to describe fundamental gestures in a way my users would enjoy learning. So instead I just use different gestures, aiming for ones they already understand. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From hh at hyperhh.de Mon May 29 15:08:43 2017 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Mon, 29 May 2017 21:08:43 +0200 Subject: Using alt-key clicks on linux Message-ID: <81B7D066-CB35-4285-821E-23ED28AAF10E@hyperhh.de> You could try to rethink why that key is named "optionKey" or "altKey". Using the altkey with another key on the keyboard is not the same as using it with the mouse. Easy to understand. It's a simple option. As you said earlier: "... some things make more semantic sense with Alt rather than Shift". --- Alt happens. From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Mon May 29 16:01:24 2017 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Mon, 29 May 2017 16:01:24 -0400 Subject: Using alt-key clicks on linux In-Reply-To: <81B7D066-CB35-4285-821E-23ED28AAF10E@hyperhh.de> References: <81B7D066-CB35-4285-821E-23ED28AAF10E@hyperhh.de> Message-ID: On Mon, May 29, 2017 at 3:08 PM, hh via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > You could try to rethink why that key is named "optionKey" or "altKey". > > Using the altkey with another key on the keyboard is not the same > as using it with the mouse. Easy to understand. It's a simple option. > > As you said earlier: > "... some things make more semantic sense with Alt rather than Shift". > > --- > Alt happens. > > Further back, it was said that this is only an issue when LiveCode misbehaves and is a window can't be selected because it is outside the screen. So if true, LC should have a built-in way to recover the window, like how Control-period stops a script. How about Control-period-click, and the window becomes stuck to the pointer until the next click? ~Roger From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon May 29 16:07:25 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 29 May 2017 13:07:25 -0700 Subject: Using alt-key clicks on linux In-Reply-To: <81B7D066-CB35-4285-821E-23ED28AAF10E@hyperhh.de> References: <81B7D066-CB35-4285-821E-23ED28AAF10E@hyperhh.de> Message-ID: hh wrote: > You could try to rethink why that key is named "optionKey" or > "altKey". > > Using the altkey with another key on the keyboard is not the same > as using it with the mouse. Easy to understand. It's a simple option. > > As you said earlier: > "... some things make more semantic sense with Alt rather than Shift". > > --- > Alt happens. ...but not in a vacuum. With the rare exception of some games (where keys are used in such unusual ways that their designs don't really apply to discussions of productivity apps), the Alt/Option key does nothing by itself. It's a modifier of some other action, either another keypress or a mouse action. A click gesture is so common that most folks don't even think about it. They just click, down and release - in one fluid action, cognitively and temporally. Most folks don't even conceptualize that mouseDown and mouseUp are separate states, at least not with regard to push buttons. If we attempt to redefine the click just to accommodate a particular modifier key, for myself I believe that's focusing on the less productive side of the equation. When solving a UI challenge it's often helpful to seek guidance in existing solutions. Mark Weider's reminder is very helpful here: I think considering how much of a known behavior this is in the linux desktop world it's unlikely to be changed So while the semantics that I feel can be useful for distinguishing between Ctrl, Shift, and Alt ae arguably valuable, I have to recognize that any value they have is relative to the audience in which they're used. And since the Linux world has been operating without Alt-click for anything beyond window moving for so long, this leaves us with a question: what do they do instead? The answer seems most commonly to be what the LiveCode team has already done, along with LibreOffice draw and others: where a drag+modifier is used for cloning a a selected control, the modifier is Ctrl. Some layout programs (Synfig and Inkscape come to mind) don't even have a drag+modifier action for cloning at all. So the Alt-click gesture is rarely used except in a subset of app types, and within a given category of application it's not even needed across the whole scope of apps within it. If we look outside of graphics programs, in other Linux apps we see Ctrl-drag used for duplicating the selection, including Gedit for duplicating dragged text (as opposed to just moving it), and even the Nautilus file manager, for duplicating files. Where a modifier key is needed for clicks, LC's native behavior seems to follow the closest thing we can find to a common convention. In fact, if we think about this a bit more, Ctrl-click is most specifically Ctrl-drag, which is subtly but importantly a different gesture. As I think about this more, if we skip dragging operations and focus exclusively on single-point clicks, I can't think of any common uses at all. And maybe that's not so bad. Every feature that requires both hands and non-visibly-self-evident gestures to achieve is probably one that won't get used often anyway. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon May 29 16:15:35 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 29 May 2017 13:15:35 -0700 Subject: Using alt-key clicks on linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <086a0c41-be6c-5213-774f-a4e418178e7c@fourthworld.com> Roger Eller wrote: > Further back, it was said that this is only an issue when LiveCode > misbehaves and is a window can't be selected because it is outside the > screen. So if true, LC should have a built-in way to recover the > window, > like how Control-period stops a script. How about Control-period- > click, and the window becomes stuck to the pointer until the next > click? I believe there are options in Compiz Config to do that for on-screen windows, but offscreen windows present a different problem: if there's more than one, how do you know which one to put beneath the mouse. FWIW in devolution's DeskView, right-clicking in that window brings up a context menu that includes "Center Offscreen Windows". I suppose I could wait for the IDE team to add something like that, but LC Script is so easy to use something like that takes only a couple minutes to add in a plugin today. Similarly, as much as I like to many things about the Project Browser, the more I use it on complex layouts the more I'm with Jacque and others who find its dual-selection-mode way of working both confusing and complicated. So I've begun resurrecting an old object browser I'd set aside when the PB first came out. IIRC the LC team has expressed that the PB's dual-selection-mode is here to stay, so on that one if I want to get back to a world where one click = one selection I have no choice but to write that myself anyway. Thankfully LC Script is easy and enjoyable enough where making an object browser is not only rewarding but also fun. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From hh at hyperhh.de Mon May 29 16:54:44 2017 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Mon, 29 May 2017 22:54:44 +0200 Subject: Using alt-key clicks on linux Message-ID: <2F1906A4-F57D-4E73-AE8C-AEBA6D647A93@hyperhh.de> >> hh: >> As you said earlier: >> "... some things make more semantic sense with Alt rather than Shift". >> >> Alt happens. > RG: > ... but not in a vacuum. "Alt happens" is the alt-variant of "Shift happens" (Forrest Gump). > RG wrote: > A click gesture is so common that most folks don't even think about it. > They just click, down and release - in one fluid action, cognitively and > temporally. Most folks don't even conceptualize that mouseDown and > mouseUp are separate states, at least not with regard to push buttons. Probably I'm not from earth. To click "cognitively and temporally" or to "conceptualize" separate mouse states is not my thing. I simply think before I click just the same as I think before I talk or write. So I better stop here. And use simple click actions for my simple stacks which do not intend to be great apps, so they don't need any avant-garde UI design. From mark at livecode.com Tue May 30 13:25:33 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Tue, 30 May 2017 19:25:33 +0200 Subject: HTML5 deployment: progress comes into sight In-Reply-To: <467557AC-D586-429C-90DE-CB03951B6ECF@hyperhh.de> References: <467557AC-D586-429C-90DE-CB03951B6ECF@hyperhh.de> Message-ID: <833fe36f2a50f91875b73d6a58f9b5a5@livecode.com> On 2017-05-18 16:09, hh via use-livecode wrote: > [Excerpt from thread 'LC core team', now with a more approriate title.] >> That being said, recently we are a hair's breadth away from getting >> widgets working in HTML5 (hopefully running a little quicker than they >> did before too): >> >> https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/5428 I got this out of 'work-in-progress' state today - there still seem to be a couple of odd issues with specific widgets (the clock widget only renders 1 to 11, for example - not 12), however they are probably due to issues elsewhere rather than the general approach. Anyway, widgets should be coming (back?) to the HTML5 engine in 9-dp7 :) Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Tue May 30 14:12:51 2017 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Tue, 30 May 2017 14:12:51 -0400 Subject: HTML5 deployment: progress comes into sight In-Reply-To: <833fe36f2a50f91875b73d6a58f9b5a5@livecode.com> References: <467557AC-D586-429C-90DE-CB03951B6ECF@hyperhh.de> <833fe36f2a50f91875b73d6a58f9b5a5@livecode.com> Message-ID: Any ETA on dp-7? I have a sort-of urgent need that I hope is addressed in 7. On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 1:25 PM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On 2017-05-18 16:09, hh via use-livecode wrote: > >> [Excerpt from thread 'LC core team', now with a more approriate title.] >> >>> That being said, recently we are a hair's breadth away from getting >>> widgets working in HTML5 (hopefully running a little quicker than they >>> did before too): >>> >>> https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/5428 >>> >> > I got this out of 'work-in-progress' state today - there still seem to be > a couple of odd issues with specific widgets (the clock widget only renders > 1 to 11, for example - not 12), however they are probably due to issues > elsewhere > rather than the general approach. > > Anyway, widgets should be coming (back?) to the HTML5 engine in 9-dp7 :) > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > > -- > Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ > LiveCode: Everyone can create apps > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Tue May 30 14:24:00 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Tue, 30 May 2017 21:24:00 +0300 Subject: OT: Back to the future Message-ID: <116cb6ae-d9ca-b165-17cd-38c9d1664d0e@gmail.com> Yum! https://archive.org/details/computer-programme A lot of what is said in these TV programmes is still relevant today. Richmond. From dochawk at gmail.com Tue May 30 17:34:39 2017 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Tue, 30 May 2017 14:34:39 -0700 Subject: insanely long delays when moving several selected objects Message-ID: I few minutes ago, I selected about three dozen fields in two groups, and tapped up-arrow several times. I had *thought* that the slowmove bug was long gone, but apparently not. Simply groping them to move isn't a viable workaround; the point was that I needed space in the middle of the group. *Is* there a workaround for this. Gee, they're finally done! -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From ali.lloyd at livecode.com Tue May 30 17:51:27 2017 From: ali.lloyd at livecode.com (Ali Lloyd) Date: Tue, 30 May 2017 21:51:27 +0000 Subject: insanely long delays when moving several selected objects In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The workaround might be to close the property inspector- however that of course depends on whether the PI is open while you are experiencing this currently. On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 10:34 PM Dr. Hawkins via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I few minutes ago, I selected about three dozen fields in two groups, and > tapped up-arrow several times. > > I had *thought* that the slowmove bug was long gone, but apparently not. > > Simply groping them to move isn't a viable workaround; the point was that I > needed space in the middle of the group. > > *Is* there a workaround for this. > > Gee, they're finally done! > > > -- > Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. > (702) 508-8462 > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue May 30 17:59:52 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 30 May 2017 21:59:52 +0000 Subject: insanely long delays when moving several selected objects In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9ACF7442-A10D-419E-ACA3-DDB1159E407B@iotecdigital.com> That happens to me as well. Closing the PI definitely fixes that. Bob S > On May 30, 2017, at 14:34 , Dr. Hawkins via use-livecode wrote: > > I few minutes ago, I selected about three dozen fields in two groups, and > tapped up-arrow several times. > > I had *thought* that the slowmove bug was long gone, but apparently not. > > Simply groping them to move isn't a viable workaround; the point was that I > needed space in the middle of the group. > > *Is* there a workaround for this. > > Gee, they're finally done! > > > -- > Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. > (702) 508-8462 > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dochawk at gmail.com Tue May 30 19:39:45 2017 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Tue, 30 May 2017 16:39:45 -0700 Subject: insanely long delays when moving several selected objects In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 2:51 PM, Ali Lloyd via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > The workaround might be to close the property inspector- however that of > course depends on whether the PI is open while you are experiencing this > currently. > !!! I'd never noticed a connection to property inspectors--but they would almost always be open when I'm doing this type of thing. Thanks -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From devin_asay at byu.edu Tue May 30 19:42:54 2017 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Tue, 30 May 2017 23:42:54 +0000 Subject: insanely long delays when moving several selected objects In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1A2F52AF-D9BE-4383-877C-EFC6835BC08E@byu.edu> On May 30, 2017, at 5:39 PM, Dr. Hawkins via use-livecode > wrote: On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 2:51 PM, Ali Lloyd via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: The workaround might be to close the property inspector- however that of course depends on whether the PI is open while you are experiencing this currently. !!! I'd never noticed a connection to property inspectors--but they would almost always be open when I'm doing this type of thing. I wonder if he meant the Project Browser, rather than the property inspector. I?ve often seen slowdowns with the PB open, which tend to get worse the longer it?s open and which go away as soon as I close it. Devin Devin Asay Director Office of Digital Humanities Brigham Young University From dochawk at gmail.com Tue May 30 19:59:00 2017 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Tue, 30 May 2017 16:59:00 -0700 Subject: forcing a number to be interpreted as a field name Message-ID: I have, due to the government's wisdom, checkboxes I have to use to display numeric values. I've created my own to make them the right size, and to function as parts of groups. But looping through, with the fields in these things named for the possible values (usually text), I have to refer to them. So I have value of (0,1,2) for one of these I need to loop through these values to set the field with the corresponding name. Having a value of zero in vl, how do can I refer to the field named "0" in group tgGrp? When this isn't a calculated value, I do it by name (zero, one, etc.), but that isn't an option sometimes. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Tue May 30 20:12:47 2017 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Wed, 31 May 2017 02:12:47 +0200 Subject: forcing a number to be interpreted as a field name In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You shouldn't use numbers and constants as names for fields. One and 1 are identical and field "one" as well as field "1" may be interpreted as the first field rather than the field with name "one" or "1". Instead always start control names with a letter or a symbol that isn't a number. For example, you could start all names with n and write a loop like repeat with x = 1 to 10 set the numberformat to "00" put fld ("n" & x*1) into myValue -- do something with myValue here end repeat Kind regards, Mark Schonewille http://economy-x-talk.com https://www.facebook.com/marksch Buy the most extensive book on the LiveCode language: http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com Op 31-May-17 om 01:59 schreef Dr. Hawkins via use-livecode: > I have, due to the government's wisdom, checkboxes I have to use to display > numeric values. I've created my own to make them the right size, and to > function as parts of groups. > > But looping through, with the fields in these things named for the possible > values (usually text), I have to refer to them. > > So I have value of (0,1,2) for one of these > > > I need to loop through these values to set the field with the corresponding > name. > > Having a value of zero in vl, how do can I refer to the field named "0" in > group tgGrp? > > When this isn't a calculated value, I do it by name (zero, one, etc.), but > that isn't an option sometimes. > From dochawk at gmail.com Tue May 30 20:30:48 2017 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Tue, 30 May 2017 17:30:48 -0700 Subject: forcing a number to be interpreted as a field name In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 5:12 PM, Mark Schonewille via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > You shouldn't use numbers and constants as names for fields. One and 1 are > identical and field "one" as well as field "1" may be interpreted as the > first field rather than the field with name "one" or "1". > > Instead always start control names with a letter or a symbol that isn't a > number. > I'm a very firm believer in this, and have been since HyperCard 1.0 . . . However, the forms changed to this stupid system after my enine was written, and I'm trying to find the way to accommodate this that both the "least hackity" and has the smallest number of rewrites. The least painful things that I have thought of so far are 1) a global array with names of the numeric values, and switch to working with this for display when the datatype is integer 2) have a custom property in groups with such a translation table for the values used when it exists I think I actually did a good enough job in general that there is a single handler that has to change! But even these mean going from a super-clean rendition to a series of similar switches . . . *argh* -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue May 30 20:42:43 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 31 May 2017 00:42:43 +0000 Subject: insanely long delays when moving several selected objects In-Reply-To: <1A2F52AF-D9BE-4383-877C-EFC6835BC08E@byu.edu> References: <1A2F52AF-D9BE-4383-877C-EFC6835BC08E@byu.edu> Message-ID: <9DC682DA-A6FB-45BE-823C-D78336B46DFD@iotecdigital.com> I think anything that is displaying properties of any controls will cause this. It has to intercept the engine and update the displayed settings each time anything changes. Otherwise you would not get real time updates to these properties in any open windows. Bob S > On May 30, 2017, at 16:42 , Devin Asay via use-livecode wrote: > > I'd never noticed a connection to property inspectors--but they would > almost always be open when I'm doing this type of thing. > > I wonder if he meant the Project Browser, rather than the property inspector. I?ve often seen slowdowns with the PB open, which tend to get worse the longer it?s open and which go away as soon as I close it. > > Devin > > > Devin Asay From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue May 30 20:47:01 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 31 May 2017 00:47:01 +0000 Subject: forcing a number to be interpreted as a field name In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <205551F5-7BEC-4637-863E-E5E632A2ADDF@iotecdigital.com> When you say "forms" do you mean "web forms" or PDF forms? It may not matter much. I wrote an interface which allows the user to associate a database column with a PDF form control. Much the same thing could be done which would allow you to call your form fields anything you like. Populating and extracting data would use this linking system whenever going from one to the other. It's not the least trouble, but it is the most flexible way going forward, which is what I was eventually forced to concede. I resisted it for a long time. Bob S > On May 30, 2017, at 17:30 , Dr. Hawkins via use-livecode wrote: > > I'm a very firm believer in this, and have been since HyperCard 1.0 . . . > > However, the forms changed to this stupid system after my enine was > written, and I'm trying to find the way to accommodate this that both the > "least hackity" and has the smallest number of rewrites. > > The least painful things that I have thought of so far are > 1) a global array with names of the numeric values, and switch to working > with this for display when the datatype is integer > 2) have a custom property in groups with such a translation table for the > values used when it exists > > I think I actually did a good enough job in general that there is a single > handler that has to change! > > But even these mean going from a super-clean rendition to a series of > similar switches . . . > > *argh* > > > -- > Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. > (702) 508-8462 From monte at appisle.net Tue May 30 20:49:27 2017 From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding) Date: Wed, 31 May 2017 10:49:27 +1000 Subject: insanely long delays when moving several selected objects In-Reply-To: <9DC682DA-A6FB-45BE-823C-D78336B46DFD@iotecdigital.com> References: <1A2F52AF-D9BE-4383-877C-EFC6835BC08E@byu.edu> <9DC682DA-A6FB-45BE-823C-D78336B46DFD@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <43EF3C17-45C8-4D82-96D4-00F52EBBF833@appisle.net> > On 31 May 2017, at 10:42 am, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > > I think anything that is displaying properties of any controls will cause this. It has to intercept the engine and update the displayed settings each time anything changes. Otherwise you would not get real time updates to these properties in any open windows. Something like that should be able to be worked around by sending in some unnoticeable to the user amount time (I usually use 200 milliseconds) then cancel the send if the event happens again within the time. We do that all over the place but there could be a few spots that are being missed. Like this local sMessage on somethingChaged cancel sMessage send ?displayChange? to me in 200 milliseconds put the result into sMessage end somethingChanged on displayChange ? actually do something end displayChange Cheers Monte From dochawk at gmail.com Tue May 30 21:11:39 2017 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Tue, 30 May 2017 18:11:39 -0700 Subject: forcing a number to be interpreted as a field name In-Reply-To: <205551F5-7BEC-4637-863E-E5E632A2ADDF@iotecdigital.com> References: <205551F5-7BEC-4637-863E-E5E632A2ADDF@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 5:47 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > When you say "forms" do you mean "web forms" or PDF forms? PDF forms. Particularly badly written pdf . . . I actually recreate them (though, at some point, if people start paying me, I'll probably switch to putting fields of .eps, which will probably mean rewriting in swift or some such). The core of the program deals with the dependencies and calculating the default values for other variables in a cascading manner. And now I find, happily, that I accounted for this situation long ago; I just generated a form that hadn't been used in a while. When I have integer values, rather than field names for values, it's "cg_" followed by the value. And with that, all works again! -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From brahma at hindu.org Tue May 30 22:31:55 2017 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Wed, 31 May 2017 02:31:55 +0000 Subject: HTML5 deployment: progress comes into sight In-Reply-To: <467557AC-D586-429C-90DE-CB03951B6ECF@hyperhh.de> References: <467557AC-D586-429C-90DE-CB03951B6ECF@hyperhh.de> Message-ID: <64BB94D8-CF7F-459C-874D-7E1EE4662A52@hindu.org> mark Waddington wrote: We've also been looking at how to abstract the FFI work we've done as part of the Infinite LiveCode campaign to allow LCB to bind to JavaScript APIs (which will allow greater type fidelity than is possible using 'do as javascript' from LCS). BR: I don't understand the above well enough to know if this is even related? but the need has not gone away. At the risk of "going on and on again" about this again. What I would find much more useful (may it is just me) is to get the javascript of the html5 code running in a browser widget to be a "member in good standing" of LC message hierarchy inside an LC build (not the other way around) I can get any number of developers from around the planet to build any kind of "HTML5" thing for our web site and it would run faster (no emscripten download required), be better designed in the long run than some "transform" of a Livecode stack to HTML5. At least in my universe, use cases for pushing LC apps to HTML5 in the browser are very few. For us here, and I would think for a "legion" of developers who are vested first in the LC app platform and html5 second, what we need is for the run time, synchronous communications between the JS in the browser widget and the LS message path. What I *really* want is to leverage the web kit graphics engine so that we look at the HTML5 Canvas/JS like some kind of "media toolbox" for building content. So, like Photoshop just offered today tutorials on building animated gifs, which we can then obviously use in LC. Similarly I want HTML5 "kids" working for me to build content that I can turn around and then running inside Livecode with the LC scripts and the JS "talking to each other" intelligently and in a timely way. (javascript calls a function, LC hears this and returns the data, JS proceeds? even simple things like someone does something in the browser widget? data is then saved by the LC back end script to SqlLite Dbase and returns a "success" like a kind of "dispatch" call from the JS to the LC scripts that wrap the widget. Jonathan runs Google earth "for God sake" in a browser widget. Another man on our team created an app using ionic/angular that is now on the stores. Just for "kicks" I extract the core and it ran perfectly inside a LC stack/Browser Widget. But? I can't get that to talk to LC? except with the primitive calls we now have. then, for $35.00 someone who is a JS jockey can write some cool animation in HYPE and and I can drop this into myapp mainstack.livecode /animations /hype-html5-animation and run the latter inside the mainstack. We have discussed this at length before and HH and Jonathan are way ahead of me on these initiatives. My query on the business channel resulted in $7,000.00 price tag to get that job done, $13,000.00 if we wanted robust error checking included. I realize to some of us here that may seem like a lot, but I can respect the hours-to-get-it-done-must-be-covered requirements. I had hope we might get a "kick starter" going with a number of us kicking in some $ for this? I could probably get permission to spend from our shoe string budgets: $1,500 at least? but no one else here responded. So I guess My idea that others could use this was a "fantasy" ?? Does this relate at all to " LCB to bind to JavaScript APIs" ? Brahmanathaswami From danoldboy at gmail.com Wed May 31 00:35:18 2017 From: danoldboy at gmail.com (Dan Brown) Date: Wed, 31 May 2017 05:35:18 +0100 Subject: HTML5 deployment: progress comes into sight In-Reply-To: <64BB94D8-CF7F-459C-874D-7E1EE4662A52@hindu.org> References: <467557AC-D586-429C-90DE-CB03951B6ECF@hyperhh.de> <64BB94D8-CF7F-459C-874D-7E1EE4662A52@hindu.org> Message-ID: JavaScript via the browser would be huge. There are tens of thousands of JavaScript libraries that could be used by livecoders to add bleeding edge UI elements & websockets to their applications via lc script. It would allow livecode to communicate with the real-time web without lcb ( which only a small percentage of the community are able to utilise) On 31 May 2017 3:32 am, "Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode" < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > mark Waddington wrote: > > We've also been looking at how to abstract the FFI work we've done as > part of the Infinite LiveCode campaign to allow LCB to bind to > JavaScript > APIs (which will allow greater type fidelity than is possible using > 'do as javascript' from LCS). > > BR: > > I don't understand the above well enough to know if this is even related? > but the need has not gone away. At the risk of "going on and on again" > about this again. > > What I would find much more useful (may it is just me) is to get the > javascript of the html5 code running in a browser widget to be a "member in > good standing" of LC message hierarchy inside an LC build (not the other > way around) > > I can get any number of developers from around the planet to build any > kind of "HTML5" thing for our web site and it would run faster (no > emscripten download required), be better designed in the long run than some > "transform" of a Livecode stack to HTML5. > > At least in my universe, use cases for pushing LC apps to HTML5 in the > browser are very few. For us here, and I would think for a "legion" of > developers who are vested first in the LC app platform and html5 second, > what we need is for the run time, synchronous communications between the JS > in the browser widget and the LS message path. > > What I *really* want is to leverage the web kit graphics engine so that we > look at the HTML5 Canvas/JS like some kind of "media toolbox" for building > content. So, like Photoshop just offered today tutorials on building > animated gifs, which we can then obviously use in LC. Similarly I want > HTML5 "kids" working for me to build content that I can turn around and > then running inside Livecode with the LC scripts and the JS "talking to > each other" intelligently and in a timely way. (javascript calls a > function, LC hears this and returns the data, JS proceeds? even simple > things like someone does something in the browser widget? data is then > saved by the LC back end script to SqlLite Dbase and returns a "success" > like a kind of "dispatch" call from the JS to the LC scripts that wrap the > widget. > > Jonathan runs Google earth "for God sake" in a browser widget. Another > man on our team created an app using ionic/angular that is now on the > stores. Just for "kicks" I extract the core and it ran perfectly inside a > LC stack/Browser Widget. But? I can't get that to talk to LC? except with > the primitive calls we now have. > > then, for $35.00 someone who is a JS jockey can write some cool animation > in HYPE and and I can drop this into > > myapp > mainstack.livecode > /animations > /hype-html5-animation > > and run the latter inside the mainstack. > > We have discussed this at length before and HH and Jonathan are way ahead > of me on these initiatives. My query on the business channel resulted in > $7,000.00 price tag to get that job done, $13,000.00 if we wanted robust > error checking included. I realize to some of us here that may seem like a > lot, but I can respect the hours-to-get-it-done-must-be-covered > requirements. I had hope we might get a "kick starter" going with a number > of us kicking in some $ for this? I could probably get permission to spend > from our shoe string budgets: $1,500 at least? but no one else here > responded. So I guess My idea that others could use this was a "fantasy" ?? > > Does this relate at all to " LCB to bind to JavaScript APIs" ? > > Brahmanathaswami > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From danoldboy at gmail.com Wed May 31 03:01:30 2017 From: danoldboy at gmail.com (Dan Brown) Date: Wed, 31 May 2017 08:01:30 +0100 Subject: HTML5 deployment: progress comes into sight In-Reply-To: References: <467557AC-D586-429C-90DE-CB03951B6ECF@hyperhh.de> <64BB94D8-CF7F-459C-874D-7E1EE4662A52@hindu.org> Message-ID: I'll also add that for all the wonderful possibilities that LCB brings there is a very real danger that countless hours will be spent using it to re-invent the wheel. Take for instance the displaying of svg's. This is a solved problem in the browser and has been for a long time but in native livecode it's still in the infant stages of implementation (to put it mildly). The best solutions for user interface "widgets" are arguably being created in the form of javascript libraries. To me it makes total sense to integrate with that ecosystem and free up LCB / livecode developer hours for solving other problems Hopefully soon I'll see this in my inbox "Livecode brings the power of javascript to native mobile and desktop apps".... On 31 May 2017 5:35 am, "Dan Brown" wrote: > JavaScript via the browser would be huge. There are tens of thousands of > JavaScript libraries that could be used by livecoders to add bleeding edge > UI elements & websockets to their applications via lc script. It would > allow livecode to communicate with the real-time web without lcb ( which > only a small percentage of the community are able to utilise) > > On 31 May 2017 3:32 am, "Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode" < > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> mark Waddington wrote: >> >> We've also been looking at how to abstract the FFI work we've done as >> part of the Infinite LiveCode campaign to allow LCB to bind to >> JavaScript >> APIs (which will allow greater type fidelity than is possible using >> 'do as javascript' from LCS). >> >> BR: >> >> I don't understand the above well enough to know if this is even related? >> but the need has not gone away. At the risk of "going on and on again" >> about this again. >> >> What I would find much more useful (may it is just me) is to get the >> javascript of the html5 code running in a browser widget to be a "member in >> good standing" of LC message hierarchy inside an LC build (not the other >> way around) >> >> I can get any number of developers from around the planet to build any >> kind of "HTML5" thing for our web site and it would run faster (no >> emscripten download required), be better designed in the long run than some >> "transform" of a Livecode stack to HTML5. >> >> At least in my universe, use cases for pushing LC apps to HTML5 in the >> browser are very few. For us here, and I would think for a "legion" of >> developers who are vested first in the LC app platform and html5 second, >> what we need is for the run time, synchronous communications between the JS >> in the browser widget and the LS message path. >> >> What I *really* want is to leverage the web kit graphics engine so that >> we look at the HTML5 Canvas/JS like some kind of "media toolbox" for >> building content. So, like Photoshop just offered today tutorials on >> building animated gifs, which we can then obviously use in LC. Similarly I >> want HTML5 "kids" working for me to build content that I can turn around >> and then running inside Livecode with the LC scripts and the JS "talking to >> each other" intelligently and in a timely way. (javascript calls a >> function, LC hears this and returns the data, JS proceeds? even simple >> things like someone does something in the browser widget? data is then >> saved by the LC back end script to SqlLite Dbase and returns a "success" >> like a kind of "dispatch" call from the JS to the LC scripts that wrap the >> widget. >> >> Jonathan runs Google earth "for God sake" in a browser widget. Another >> man on our team created an app using ionic/angular that is now on the >> stores. Just for "kicks" I extract the core and it ran perfectly inside a >> LC stack/Browser Widget. But? I can't get that to talk to LC? except with >> the primitive calls we now have. >> >> then, for $35.00 someone who is a JS jockey can write some cool animation >> in HYPE and and I can drop this into >> >> myapp >> mainstack.livecode >> /animations >> /hype-html5-animation >> >> and run the latter inside the mainstack. >> >> We have discussed this at length before and HH and Jonathan are way ahead >> of me on these initiatives. My query on the business channel resulted in >> $7,000.00 price tag to get that job done, $13,000.00 if we wanted robust >> error checking included. I realize to some of us here that may seem like a >> lot, but I can respect the hours-to-get-it-done-must-be-covered >> requirements. I had hope we might get a "kick starter" going with a number >> of us kicking in some $ for this? I could probably get permission to spend >> from our shoe string budgets: $1,500 at least? but no one else here >> responded. So I guess My idea that others could use this was a "fantasy" ?? >> >> Does this relate at all to " LCB to bind to JavaScript APIs" ? >> >> Brahmanathaswami >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > From hh at hyperhh.de Wed May 31 03:02:10 2017 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Wed, 31 May 2017 09:02:10 +0200 Subject: HTML5 deployment: progress comes into sight Message-ID: <686B1540-F8B0-44F2-9ADE-DF1B7E1AE316@hyperhh.de> The browser widget is essentially kind of a GUI to libbrowser, cleverly made. @Dan Using all these js libraries is already possible (where the inherent HTML5 of the widget allows that -- different by platform), just do it. Examples of going that way are among the most recent 10 of "Sample stacks". @BR If you write the HTML5 by yourself you can send messages to LC or events like the clickLoc or the mouseLoc when "hovering" the browser, also when clicking "buttons" of an element. I'll give a demo of that soon in the LC Builder forum. What's very difficult, as you write in detail, are "callbacks" for _synchronous_ communication. You can have that also but have to code a lot (in javascript). That's not a problem of the LC side. But it could be made much more easy to handle by building such things into libbrowser, then usable directly from LC Script. And it would make a lot of js synchronous (and by that very slow ...). --- If I understand correctly Mark speaks currently about [1] using a browser widget within the _HTML5 deployment_ (emscripten). [2] using via FFI javascript or (part of) libbrowser _within_ LC Builder. Part [1], the current thread, will hopefully allow for example to have the "sample stacks" imageToolKit or the recent SVGplay-stacks in a HTML5 standalone. The speed results will be very interesting. Part [2] will allow the use of javascript libs _within_ our widgets (not by talking _via LC Script_ forth to and back from a browser widget). Using or not using another widget from LC Builder via LC Script arises the next new question: [3] How can widgets easily communicate amongst themselves? From mark at livecode.com Wed May 31 04:14:14 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Wed, 31 May 2017 10:14:14 +0200 Subject: HTML5 deployment: progress comes into sight In-Reply-To: <686B1540-F8B0-44F2-9ADE-DF1B7E1AE316@hyperhh.de> References: <686B1540-F8B0-44F2-9ADE-DF1B7E1AE316@hyperhh.de> Message-ID: <6032476312fb8d21f5ce828f39573ab8@livecode.com> On 2017-05-31 09:02, hh via use-livecode wrote: > If I understand correctly Mark speaks currently about > [1] using a browser widget within the _HTML5 deployment_ (emscripten). Heh - not in this case - however, it is an interesting idea. With the 'do as javascript' functionality, scripts could already create a suitable element in the host page to allow this - although, admittedly, it would be quite cool if libbrowser had a 'html5' implementation which made it 'do the right thing'. (Pre-requisite for this is getting 'native layers' working in HTML5). > [2] using via FFI javascript or (part of) libbrowser _within_ LC > Builder. Yes - this was what I was mainly referring to. With 'do as javascript' (in HTML5 engine) you can already evaluate anything javascripty, but (again) it would be nice if LCB had a more 'native' way to do it without indirecting through it (also it would save a per-call JavaScript compile step) > Part [1], the current thread, will hopefully allow for example to have > the "sample > stacks" imageToolKit or the recent SVGplay-stacks in a HTML5 > standalone. The speed > results will be very interesting. If you have pure JS libraries you want to use, then you can already load these and access them (do as javascript, again) - you wouldn't necessarily need an 'embedded browser in HTML5' to do so. > Part [2] will allow the use of javascript libs _within_ our widgets > (not by talking > _via LC Script_ forth to and back from a browser widget). Yes. > Using or not using another widget from LC Builder via LC Script arises > the next > new question: > [3] How can widgets easily communicate amongst themselves? At the moment widgets can communicate with each other via properties - there is a missing 'feature' at present in terms of allowing public (non-event) handlers to be called from 'outside the widget' (i.e. from script)... Although this is more a matter of finding the right syntax than anything else. e.g. A widget might have a 'Copy' handler - which does what you would expect 'copy tObject' to do - so you might want to invoke this handler at certain points: call "Copy" of widget "Foo" However, 'call' already has a meaning - it means 'send message to script object without changing context' (note I use the term 'script object' here to distinguish between the object as you see it in LCS, i.e. its script, and the object which backs it, i.e. the widget). Basically, we can't use 'dispatch', 'call' or 'send' as their behavior is already taken for interaction at the script level (i.e. LCS handlers in the scripts of the objects) and *not* invoking a method on the 'thing' behind the script (whether that be an engine control, or widget). Indeed, we already made a slight mistake with 'do in ' which we do need to rectify (somehow) at somepoint - for a similar reason so that we can actually have 'do in ' to mean 'do the fragment of script in the context of the target object' (at the moment you can use it on a browser widget, but then the script is JavaScript and not LCS!). Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mark at livecode.com Wed May 31 04:26:05 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Wed, 31 May 2017 10:26:05 +0200 Subject: HTML5 deployment: progress comes into sight In-Reply-To: References: <467557AC-D586-429C-90DE-CB03951B6ECF@hyperhh.de> <64BB94D8-CF7F-459C-874D-7E1EE4662A52@hindu.org> Message-ID: <3ad945cf42e246c8f00d613b2d2e0061@livecode.com> On 2017-05-31 09:01, Dan Brown via use-livecode wrote: > I'll also add that for all the wonderful possibilities that LCB brings > there is a very real danger that countless hours will be spent using it > to > re-invent the wheel. That is true of every language ever implemented ;) However, one of the goals of LCB is to allow it to be used as the 'glue' language allowing LiveCode Script to access 'things written in other languages' with (eventually) as much syntactic fidelity as you get with builtin-in engine functionality. Hopefully, reducing the need to re-invent the wheel to the minimum required to make other-world libraries look more LiveCode like. i.e. One of its main goals is to rid ourselves of the need to 're-invent the wheel'. > Take for instance the displaying of svg's. This is a solved problem in > the > browser and has been for a long time but in native livecode it's still > in > the infant stages of implementation (to put it mildly). The best > solutions > for user interface "widgets" are arguably being created in the form of > javascript libraries. To me it makes total sense to integrate with that > ecosystem and free up LCB / livecode developer hours for solving other > problems True - but then if I want SVG icons in my app, and I don't need the browser widget at all then I might balk at the 70-100Mb bloat I have to add to Windows / Linux apps to get it. Furthermore, I might balk at the start up time of my app on mobile devices, whilst I use the browser widget to load all my SVGs and render them into PNGs at various sizes (unless you instantiate a browser widget for every SVG icon you want to use and want to put up with the restrictions that places on you, and the overhead in terms of use). Certainly we need to be careful about 're-inventing the wheel' but that just means making good choices. In this case, the case for 'native' SVG support in LiveCode is overwhelming - the more lightweight it is, the faster it is, the more utility it has. (Also, the main problem here is 'SVG as a replacement for PNG icons' which is a much smaller problem to solve than an editable SVG canvas - which is what you get if you go the via-browser route). In terms of JavaScript 'widgets' in general, then we already have a reasonable strategy for using them now - you use a browser widget and load it in there. For example, FileMaker has a BrowserView element and there is a plugin 'React' which allows you to defined JavaScript controls and have them rendered in the browser. Admittedly using such things is a little trickier than we'd like at present - due to the lack of synchronous 'do as javascript'. Anyway, I agree that using existing libraries and code as much as possible is probably the best way to expand LiveCode's capabilities - hence LCB :) Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mark at livecode.com Wed May 31 04:31:26 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Wed, 31 May 2017 10:31:26 +0200 Subject: HTML5 deployment: progress comes into sight In-Reply-To: <64BB94D8-CF7F-459C-874D-7E1EE4662A52@hindu.org> References: <467557AC-D586-429C-90DE-CB03951B6ECF@hyperhh.de> <64BB94D8-CF7F-459C-874D-7E1EE4662A52@hindu.org> Message-ID: <69b002f1a672602c07fbbe01baaa9b6c@livecode.com> On 2017-05-31 04:31, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode wrote: > Does this relate at all to " LCB to bind to JavaScript APIs" ? Directly? No - they are two distinct things. However, running JavaScript (via LCB) in the HTML5 engine is equivalent to running JavaScript (via LCB) in a browser widget... The only 'difference' being in the latter it happens in the browser widget you say, as opposed to the browser running the (HTML5) engine. Of course, making good use of LCB JavaScript bindings is contingent on having synchronous JS execution - which we have in the HTML5 engine (due to how it is implemented), but we don't with the browser widget (due to how the embedded browsers we use work). Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From jonathandlynch at gmail.com Wed May 31 04:38:47 2017 From: jonathandlynch at gmail.com (jonathandlynch at gmail.com) Date: Wed, 31 May 2017 04:38:47 -0400 Subject: HTML5 deployment: progress comes into sight In-Reply-To: <3ad945cf42e246c8f00d613b2d2e0061@livecode.com> References: <467557AC-D586-429C-90DE-CB03951B6ECF@hyperhh.de> <64BB94D8-CF7F-459C-874D-7E1EE4662A52@hindu.org> <3ad945cf42e246c8f00d613b2d2e0061@livecode.com> Message-ID: <908F7C17-6168-419E-9756-4821687A8A94@gmail.com> A native svg object that accurately displays all svg files is essential. I strongly support Mark's point on that issue. This is not reinventing the wheel - it's attaching the already invented wheel to the wagon. Sent from my iPhone > On May 31, 2017, at 4:26 AM, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: > >> On 2017-05-31 09:01, Dan Brown via use-livecode wrote: >> I'll also add that for all the wonderful possibilities that LCB brings >> there is a very real danger that countless hours will be spent using it to >> re-invent the wheel. > > That is true of every language ever implemented ;) > > However, one of the goals of LCB is to allow it to be used as the 'glue' language allowing LiveCode Script to access 'things written in other languages' with (eventually) as much syntactic fidelity as you get with builtin-in engine functionality. Hopefully, reducing the need to re-invent the wheel to the minimum required to make other-world libraries look more LiveCode like. > > i.e. One of its main goals is to rid ourselves of the need to 're-invent the wheel'. > >> Take for instance the displaying of svg's. This is a solved problem in the >> browser and has been for a long time but in native livecode it's still in >> the infant stages of implementation (to put it mildly). The best solutions >> for user interface "widgets" are arguably being created in the form of >> javascript libraries. To me it makes total sense to integrate with that >> ecosystem and free up LCB / livecode developer hours for solving other >> problems > > True - but then if I want SVG icons in my app, and I don't need the browser widget at all then I might balk at the 70-100Mb bloat I have to add to Windows / Linux apps to get it. Furthermore, I might balk at the start up time of my app on mobile devices, whilst I use the browser widget to load all my SVGs and render them into PNGs at various sizes (unless you instantiate a browser widget for every SVG icon you want to use and want to put up with the restrictions that places on you, and the overhead in terms of use). > > Certainly we need to be careful about 're-inventing the wheel' but that just means making good choices. In this case, the case for 'native' SVG support in LiveCode is overwhelming - the more lightweight it is, the faster it is, the more utility it has. (Also, the main problem here is 'SVG as a replacement for PNG icons' which is a much smaller problem to solve than an editable SVG canvas - which is what you get if you go the via-browser route). > > In terms of JavaScript 'widgets' in general, then we already have a reasonable strategy for using them now - you use a browser widget and load it in there. For example, FileMaker has a BrowserView element and there is a plugin 'React' which allows you to defined JavaScript controls and have them rendered in the browser. Admittedly using such things is a little trickier than we'd like at present - due to the lack of synchronous 'do as javascript'. > > Anyway, I agree that using existing libraries and code as much as possible is probably the best way to expand LiveCode's capabilities - hence LCB :) > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > > -- > Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ > LiveCode: Everyone can create apps > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mark at livecode.com Wed May 31 04:48:25 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Wed, 31 May 2017 10:48:25 +0200 Subject: HTML5 deployment: progress comes into sight In-Reply-To: <908F7C17-6168-419E-9756-4821687A8A94@gmail.com> References: <467557AC-D586-429C-90DE-CB03951B6ECF@hyperhh.de> <64BB94D8-CF7F-459C-874D-7E1EE4662A52@hindu.org> <3ad945cf42e246c8f00d613b2d2e0061@livecode.com> <908F7C17-6168-419E-9756-4821687A8A94@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 2017-05-31 10:38, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode wrote: > A native svg object that accurately displays all svg files is > essential. I strongly support Mark's point on that issue. This is not > reinventing the wheel - it's attaching the already invented wheel to > the wagon. Heh - well more accurately - attaching a LiveCode-compatible instance of the already invented wheel pattern to the LiveCode wagon ;) Accurately displaying *all* SVG files might take quite a while (SVG is quite a large standard) - however, there are smaller subsets (Basic/Tiny) which cover the 'icon' use-case sufficiently. So they are a good place to start. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From jonathandlynch at gmail.com Wed May 31 05:02:47 2017 From: jonathandlynch at gmail.com (jonathandlynch at gmail.com) Date: Wed, 31 May 2017 05:02:47 -0400 Subject: Using callbacks within LC and JS Message-ID: <5DD153D7-CB8A-4B32-83D5-AC2B05093035@gmail.com> This is in response to a different thread, but worth discussing on its own. I just wanted to explain my view on why callbacks are not as horrible as they seem at first, if one structures the script logically. The below code explains: On LCcontrolScript pcommand,pdata If pcommand = empty then Put "step1();" into tJS Do tJS in widget "my browser" Else if pcommand = "return from step 1" then -- process pdata Put "step2();" into tJS Do tJS in widget "my browser" Else if pcommand = "return from step 2" then --process pdata Put "step3();" into tJS Do tJS in widget "my browser Else if pcommand = "return from step 3" then --process pdata --Finish doing whatever it needs and enjoy a great JavaScript display End if End LCcontrolScript On the JS side, the different functions use "liveCode.LCcontrolScript(tcommand,tdata);" to return the output. As long as we structure our callback thread logically, doing a bunch of callbacks between LC and JS is not so bad. The same structure can be used by functions initiated in JS. Having done some messy callbacks, I have learned my lesson on this. Sent from my iPhone From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed May 31 07:18:45 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Wed, 31 May 2017 14:18:45 +0300 Subject: HTML5 deployment: progress comes into sight In-Reply-To: References: <467557AC-D586-429C-90DE-CB03951B6ECF@hyperhh.de> <64BB94D8-CF7F-459C-874D-7E1EE4662A52@hindu.org> <3ad945cf42e246c8f00d613b2d2e0061@livecode.com> <908F7C17-6168-419E-9756-4821687A8A94@gmail.com> Message-ID: <04970041-278e-6633-03a3-b212151c5f70@gmail.com> Weel you could start with ALL SVG images made in Inkscape: monochromatic "thingies" have limited use. Richmond. On 5/31/17 11:48 am, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: > On 2017-05-31 10:38, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode wrote: >> A native svg object that accurately displays all svg files is >> essential. I strongly support Mark's point on that issue. This is not >> reinventing the wheel - it's attaching the already invented wheel to >> the wagon. > > Heh - well more accurately - attaching a LiveCode-compatible instance > of the already invented wheel pattern to the LiveCode wagon ;) > > Accurately displaying *all* SVG files might take quite a while (SVG is > quite a large standard) - however, there are smaller subsets > (Basic/Tiny) which cover the 'icon' use-case sufficiently. So they are > a good place to start. > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > From jonathandlynch at gmail.com Wed May 31 08:30:36 2017 From: jonathandlynch at gmail.com (jonathandlynch at gmail.com) Date: Wed, 31 May 2017 08:30:36 -0400 Subject: HTML5 deployment: progress comes into sight In-Reply-To: <04970041-278e-6633-03a3-b212151c5f70@gmail.com> References: <467557AC-D586-429C-90DE-CB03951B6ECF@hyperhh.de> <64BB94D8-CF7F-459C-874D-7E1EE4662A52@hindu.org> <3ad945cf42e246c8f00d613b2d2e0061@livecode.com> <908F7C17-6168-419E-9756-4821687A8A94@gmail.com> <04970041-278e-6633-03a3-b212151c5f70@gmail.com> Message-ID: <42B3655F-98B8-4C02-9BF4-C50FF5BE3C2F@gmail.com> Would it be possible to create a widget that links to an Inkscape library that processes svg data and sends it back to the widget to be displayed the way PNG is displayed? Sent from my iPhone > On May 31, 2017, at 7:18 AM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: > > Weel you could start with ALL SVG images made in Inkscape: monochromatic "thingies" have limited use. > > Richmond. > >> On 5/31/17 11:48 am, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: >>> On 2017-05-31 10:38, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode wrote: >>> A native svg object that accurately displays all svg files is >>> essential. I strongly support Mark's point on that issue. This is not >>> reinventing the wheel - it's attaching the already invented wheel to >>> the wagon. >> >> Heh - well more accurately - attaching a LiveCode-compatible instance of the already invented wheel pattern to the LiveCode wagon ;) >> >> Accurately displaying *all* SVG files might take quite a while (SVG is quite a large standard) - however, there are smaller subsets (Basic/Tiny) which cover the 'icon' use-case sufficiently. So they are a good place to start. >> >> Warmest Regards, >> >> Mark. >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mark at livecode.com Wed May 31 09:03:37 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Wed, 31 May 2017 15:03:37 +0200 Subject: HTML5 deployment: progress comes into sight In-Reply-To: <04970041-278e-6633-03a3-b212151c5f70@gmail.com> References: <467557AC-D586-429C-90DE-CB03951B6ECF@hyperhh.de> <64BB94D8-CF7F-459C-874D-7E1EE4662A52@hindu.org> <3ad945cf42e246c8f00d613b2d2e0061@livecode.com> <908F7C17-6168-419E-9756-4821687A8A94@gmail.com> <04970041-278e-6633-03a3-b212151c5f70@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 2017-05-31 13:18, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: > Weel you could start with ALL SVG images made in Inkscape: > monochromatic "thingies" have limited use. Or how about we start with the *standard* profiles for SVG and work up from there: https://www.w3.org/TR/SVGTiny12/ i.e. Let's walk before we try and run. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mark at livecode.com Wed May 31 09:08:03 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Wed, 31 May 2017 15:08:03 +0200 Subject: HTML5 deployment: progress comes into sight In-Reply-To: <42B3655F-98B8-4C02-9BF4-C50FF5BE3C2F@gmail.com> References: <467557AC-D586-429C-90DE-CB03951B6ECF@hyperhh.de> <64BB94D8-CF7F-459C-874D-7E1EE4662A52@hindu.org> <3ad945cf42e246c8f00d613b2d2e0061@livecode.com> <908F7C17-6168-419E-9756-4821687A8A94@gmail.com> <04970041-278e-6633-03a3-b212151c5f70@gmail.com> <42B3655F-98B8-4C02-9BF4-C50FF5BE3C2F@gmail.com> Message-ID: <774020349083c7f362fdf5b7b0a47a25@livecode.com> On 2017-05-31 14:30, Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode wrote: > Would it be possible to create a widget that links to an Inkscape > library that processes svg data and sends it back to the widget to be > displayed the way PNG is displayed? No - two issues: 1) Inkscape is an application - not a C library. 2) Inkscape is GPL - therefore any solution involving it would be unusable in commercial. FWIW I don't believe there are any complete open-source SVG C/C++ library implementations which are not GPL - but would be happy to be proved wrong. Obviously WebKit has an implementation, but it is part of WebKit and not exposed as an independent component as far as I'm aware. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From hh at hyperhh.de Wed May 31 09:15:17 2017 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Wed, 31 May 2017 15:15:17 +0200 Subject: Using callbacks within LC and JS Message-ID: Sadly this is only valid if the js jobs you do are non-threaded and do not use workers, rather than being a matter of logic. But the speed gain by using javascript in the browser is often only due to multi-threading. We don't have always control about all parts of a js library. We can't "split" then into non-threaded jobs. Usually one has to work really hard with promises. The sums that BR mentioned for doing synchronous communication are pretty much appropriate. We should collect for the (most expensive) offer of the core-team relating the borwser widget. > Jonathan Lynch wrote: > I just wanted to explain my view on why callbacks are not as horrible > as they seem at first, if one structures the script logically. > > The below code explains: > > On LCcontrolScript pcommand,pdata > > If pcommand = empty then > Put "step1();" into tJS > Do tJS in widget "my browser" > > Else if pcommand = "return from step 1" then > -- process pdata > Put "step2();" into tJS > Do tJS in widget "my browser" > > Else if pcommand = "return from step 2" then > --process pdata > Put "step3();" into tJS > Do tJS in widget "my browser > > Else if pcommand = "return from step 3" then > --process pdata > --Finish doing whatever it needs and enjoy a great JavaScript display > End if > > End LCcontrolScript From jonathandlynch at gmail.com Wed May 31 09:29:09 2017 From: jonathandlynch at gmail.com (jonathandlynch at gmail.com) Date: Wed, 31 May 2017 09:29:09 -0400 Subject: Using callbacks within LC and JS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <36A23D57-8331-4B07-AE94-4B35D3FFEAF9@gmail.com> Yah - setting up threads that include JS event listeners was a big pain for Augmented Earth - I have no suggestions for simplifying that part. That bit of complexity seems unavoidable to me. Sent from my iPhone > On May 31, 2017, at 9:15 AM, hh via use-livecode wrote: > > Sadly this is only valid if the js jobs you do are non-threaded and > do not use workers, rather than being a matter of logic. > > But the speed gain by using javascript in the browser is often only > due to multi-threading. > > We don't have always control about all parts of a js library. We can't > "split" then into non-threaded jobs. > Usually one has to work really hard with promises. The sums that BR > mentioned for doing synchronous communication are pretty much > appropriate. We should collect for the (most expensive) offer of the > core-team relating the borwser widget. > >> Jonathan Lynch wrote: >> I just wanted to explain my view on why callbacks are not as horrible >> as they seem at first, if one structures the script logically. >> >> The below code explains: >> >> On LCcontrolScript pcommand,pdata >> >> If pcommand = empty then >> Put "step1();" into tJS >> Do tJS in widget "my browser" >> >> Else if pcommand = "return from step 1" then >> -- process pdata >> Put "step2();" into tJS >> Do tJS in widget "my browser" >> >> Else if pcommand = "return from step 2" then >> --process pdata >> Put "step3();" into tJS >> Do tJS in widget "my browser >> >> Else if pcommand = "return from step 3" then >> --process pdata >> --Finish doing whatever it needs and enjoy a great JavaScript display >> End if >> >> End LCcontrolScript > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From hh at hyperhh.de Wed May 31 09:43:28 2017 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Wed, 31 May 2017 15:43:28 +0200 Subject: HTML5 deployment: progress comes into sight Message-ID: <5E64F279-A6D2-48B9-BB70-7A3D037BDC92@hyperhh.de> > > hh wrote: > > Part [1], the current thread, will hopefully allow for example to have > > the "sample > > stacks" imageToolKit or the recent SVGplay-stacks in a HTML5 > > standalone. The speed > > results will be very interesting. > > Mark W. wrote: > If you have pure JS libraries you want to use, then you can already load > these and access them (do as javascript, again) - you wouldn't > necessarily need an 'embedded browser in HTML5' to do so. Yes and No. I tried that extensively several weeks ago. Of course I can "do" the js I need in the webpage that 'surrounds the standalone-canvas as we have full control on that page. This is close to what we can do in a browser widget. The problem is the "one-way"-only: I can't see any way to go back, from the page to the standalone. = The browser widget has jsHandlers available. = The standalone has to get the data from the page by guesses, in a loop. If you can show or give us a solution for that, then we can have in some scenarios even more by using the latest versions of the main browsers than we get by using an embedded browser widget. In sum: Can the HTML5 standalone become a property "javascriptHandlers" that works as in the browser widget? From roland.huettmann at gmail.com Wed May 31 12:36:49 2017 From: roland.huettmann at gmail.com (Roland Huettmann) Date: Wed, 31 May 2017 18:36:49 +0200 Subject: HTML5 deployment: progress comes into sight Message-ID: @BR wrote: ... "What's very difficult, as you write in detail, are "callbacks" for _synchronous_communication..." Callback functions? In my mind, a "callback" is always asynchronous -? Let us say in Javascript - passing the function name and parameters of Javascript through LCS/LCB and then somehow the result is put into a variable while I am continuing processing other stuff. Maybe I am wrong? I am calling a server, waiting for the result, but I could wait forever and the result will possibly never come. So it would be blocking doing other things. A callback would free me from waiting for nothing. Is this a right definition for "callback"? What defines "callback"? I could understand though that I am calling a function in the browser widget (using the "callback" name of the function) which will be executed through Javascript and will be returning a value for further processing. What means "synchronous" or "asynchronous" in this context? Again, in my mind, a callback is when I send off a parcel to my friend with an instruction to tell me that it arrived and the confirmation of arrival. The confirmation is the callback. Then I know my friend received the parcel. Or in another analogy, I am calling someone by phone asking to call me back. The person may call immediately or may call never or in a couple of days. This is asynchronous. How would a callback become synchronous? Is it then still a "callback"? From jonathandlynch at gmail.com Wed May 31 13:07:07 2017 From: jonathandlynch at gmail.com (jonathandlynch at gmail.com) Date: Wed, 31 May 2017 13:07:07 -0400 Subject: HTML5 deployment: progress comes into sight In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <88878E0A-E0DA-4F31-AEF7-506A381E5235@gmail.com> A callback is not synchronous, his point was that it would be nice to communicate synchronously between LC and JS, rather than use complex callback chains. I agree with him, but I don't think there is a universal way to do that, just because some things in JavaScript, like rendering an image or using a webworker, are inherently asynchronous. Sent from my iPhone > On May 31, 2017, at 12:36 PM, Roland Huettmann via use-livecode wrote: > > @BR wrote: ... "What's very difficult, as you write in detail, are > "callbacks" for _synchronous_communication..." > > Callback functions? > > In my mind, a "callback" is always asynchronous -? Let us say in Javascript > - passing the function name and parameters of Javascript through LCS/LCB > and then somehow the result is put into a variable while I am continuing > processing other stuff. Maybe I am wrong? I am calling a server, waiting > for the result, but I could wait forever and the result will possibly never > come. So it would be blocking doing other things. A callback would free me > from waiting for nothing. Is this a right definition for "callback"? > > What defines "callback"? I could understand though that I am calling a > function in the browser widget (using the "callback" name of the function) > which will be executed through Javascript and will be returning a value for > further processing. What means "synchronous" or "asynchronous" in this > context? > > Again, in my mind, a callback is when I send off a parcel to my friend with > an instruction to tell me that it arrived and the confirmation of arrival. > The confirmation is the callback. Then I know my friend received the > parcel. Or in another analogy, I am calling someone by phone asking to call > me back. The person may call immediately or may call never or in a couple > of days. This is asynchronous. > > How would a callback become synchronous? Is it then still a "callback"? > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mark at livecode.com Wed May 31 13:31:45 2017 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Wed, 31 May 2017 19:31:45 +0200 Subject: HTML5 deployment: progress comes into sight In-Reply-To: <5E64F279-A6D2-48B9-BB70-7A3D037BDC92@hyperhh.de> References: <5E64F279-A6D2-48B9-BB70-7A3D037BDC92@hyperhh.de> Message-ID: On 2017-05-31 15:43, hh via use-livecode wrote: > The problem is the "one-way"-only: > I can't see any way to go back, from the page to the standalone. That is a very good point. > = The browser widget has jsHandlers available. > = The standalone has to get the data from the page by guesses, in a > loop. > > If you can show or give us a solution for that, then we can have in > some > scenarios even more by using the latest versions of the main browsers > than we > get by using an embedded browser widget. > > In sum: > Can the HTML5 standalone become a property "javascriptHandlers" that > works as > in the browser widget? Yes it can - I'll look into getting that (or something similar) done asap. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed May 31 14:26:35 2017 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond Mathewson) Date: Wed, 31 May 2017 21:26:35 +0300 Subject: HTML5 deployment: progress comes into sight In-Reply-To: References: <467557AC-D586-429C-90DE-CB03951B6ECF@hyperhh.de> <64BB94D8-CF7F-459C-874D-7E1EE4662A52@hindu.org> <3ad945cf42e246c8f00d613b2d2e0061@livecode.com> <908F7C17-6168-419E-9756-4821687A8A94@gmail.com> <04970041-278e-6633-03a3-b212151c5f70@gmail.com> Message-ID: <22720290-203e-e643-7d96-84cbfad8e477@gmail.com> I have a feeling that Alejandro's stack was running a while back. Richmond. On 5/31/17 4:03 pm, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode wrote: > On 2017-05-31 13:18, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode wrote: >> Weel you could start with ALL SVG images made in Inkscape: >> monochromatic "thingies" have limited use. > > Or how about we start with the *standard* profiles for SVG and work up > from there: > > https://www.w3.org/TR/SVGTiny12/ > > i.e. Let's walk before we try and run. > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > From paul at researchware.com Wed May 31 15:18:24 2017 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Wed, 31 May 2017 15:18:24 -0400 Subject: Associating additional Documents types for a Standalone Message-ID: <0f4a1580-ce59-faab-02f1-249194a2ad98@researchware.com> So in LiveCode's Staandalone builder, we can specify an icon for the application and a file extension and icon for a single document. How do we add more icons and associated file extensions to a standalone under OSX and Windows. For OSX, after you build the standalone, you can open the app bundle and edit the info.plist file to add additional ... entries for any additional document types and include the associated icns file(s) in the Resource folder of the Contents folder of teh app bundle While a manual task, this is pretty easy to add however many additional file extensions and associated icons that your app needs under OSX For Windows, I have seemed to run into problems. I have a tool, Resourceeditor.exe (http://melander.dk/reseditor) that lets me open the standalone EXE file (after building it) and add additional icons. I can see the icons added by the Standalone Builder for the app and 1st document which have IDs of 111 and 112 respectively. I can add additional icons and set their IDs to 113, 114, etc. I know I need to use setRegistry to set values in the registry when the application first starts up. I check to see if the registry entries are already present and if not, I use setRegistry to add them. The model I used previously, take from this Microsoft article (https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/hh127427(v=vs.85).aspx) does not seem to be working under Win8 and 10 for additional icons. I have to reference the icons in the standalone by INDEX number, which I though was 0,1,2, etc, but I have tried both the IDs and index number for new documents without success. Does anyone have a sample stack or code or a blog post that covered how to do this properly for all versions of Windows? Perhaps someone at the LiveCode mothership did a authoritative tech note or blog post on this at some point I just can't find a link to? From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed May 31 15:38:21 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 31 May 2017 19:38:21 +0000 Subject: Livecode 9 and converting to Stack Behaviors Message-ID: Hi all. I have been reviewing Trevor's Youtube video on using Livecode 9 to create behaviors much more easily. Looks cool, I'd like to start working on this. But there was a place where he took a substack and made it a mainstack and saved it to the disk, saying you needed to do this before creating the behavior script. I am a bit reticent to pull my stack apart because I depend a lot on the message path. If it's only a temporary change necessary to get the stack script into a behavior, and I can make it a substack later, well and good. If not, I don't want to refactor everything to accomodate this. Has anyone done this with their own stacks? Bob S From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed May 31 15:39:07 2017 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 31 May 2017 12:39:07 -0700 Subject: images in field: pointers or copies? Message-ID: I have an image in a stack and a field that displays that image several times within its contents using imageSource. I've noticed that when I resize the image the renderings of it in the field instantly resize as well - cool. This lends me to believe that any images in fields aren't rendered as copies of the image data, but as pointers to the source image. That would seem to imply a somewhat smaller RAM footprint than complete copies, but since they are rendered throughout the field I'm not exactly clear how much may be saved, so: @LC Staff: Any of you in a position to discuss the memory implications of images embedded in fields, and ways (if any) we might considering reducing memory load? For example, any benefits or penalties in keeping the source image on disk rather that imported? And if on disk, does it use one cache for all instances of an imageSource URL within a field, or would it be better to have the imageSource reference an image object that references the disk file? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From lists at mangomultimedia.com Wed May 31 16:01:40 2017 From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore) Date: Wed, 31 May 2017 20:01:40 +0000 Subject: Livecode 9 and converting to Stack Behaviors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 2:38 PM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hi all. > > I have been reviewing Trevor's Youtube video on using Livecode 9 to create > behaviors much more easily. Looks cool, I'd like to start working on this. > But there was a place where he took a substack and made it a mainstack and > saved it to the disk, saying you needed to do this before creating the > behavior script. > > I am a bit reticent to pull my stack apart because I depend a lot on the > message path. If it's only a temporary change necessary to get the stack > script into a behavior, and I can make it a substack later, well and good. > If not, I don't want to refactor everything to accomodate this. If you are creating a script only stack then it can't be a substack. It is a text file with the name of the stack and the code, nothing more. You don't have to reorganize your stacks and alter the message path though. Your stacks with UI elements in them can stay the same if you want. You just move scripts (i.e. stack and card scripts) into script only stacks and then assign the script only stacks as behaviors of the appropriate control. The message path isn't affected at all. -- Trevor DeVore > From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed May 31 16:06:12 2017 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 31 May 2017 20:06:12 +0000 Subject: Livecode 9 and converting to Stack Behaviors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2806B346-16CE-4F78-96C2-530B18E35875@iotecdigital.com> Lovely. Or should I say, Levure-ly! ;-) Bob S > On May 31, 2017, at 13:01 , Trevor DeVore via use-livecode wrote: > > If you are creating a script only stack then it can't be a substack. It is > a text file with the name of the stack and the code, nothing more. > > You don't have to reorganize your stacks and alter the message path though. > Your stacks with UI elements in them can stay the same if you want. You > just move scripts (i.e. stack and card scripts) into script only stacks and > then assign the script only stacks as behaviors of the appropriate control. > The message path isn't affected at all. > > -- > Trevor DeVore From brahma at hindu.org Wed May 31 17:06:25 2017 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Wed, 31 May 2017 21:06:25 +0000 Subject: Param Naming - Object by Reference Best Practices Message-ID: <36F7CDAC-620D-4440-AB62-1C77BA5B2FD2@hindu.org> The more libs/behaviors we use the more we are passing params that reference objects This fails put "graphic portal-title-bkgnd" into pObject setGradient pObject command setGradient pObject local tNewGradientArray # be careful when cutting and paste to and from email # tabs may get replace by spaces: put "from 208,-201|mirror false|quality good|ramp 0.13000,255,255,255,0" &\ return into tNewGradientArray put "0.62001,60,11,9,212|repeat 1|to 208,-304|type linear|via 536,-201|wrap true" \ after tNewGradientArray split tNewGradientArray by "|" and tab set the fillGradient of pObject to tNewGradientArray #breaks with error here? end setGradient but this works put "graphic portalTitleBkgnd" into pObject Why? and what is best practice where one needs to refer to objects via a parameter via Send Vis Dispatch etc. my code tends to waffle all over the place with methods for doing this. One does not expect this to be improperly evaluated put "graphic portal-title-bkgnd" into pObject What do you do? And why? BR From hh at hyperhh.de Wed May 31 17:13:38 2017 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Wed, 31 May 2017 23:13:38 +0200 Subject: HTML5 deployment: progress comes into sight Message-ID: Call, send , dispatch, do script ... It is very impressive how the core team can still have all that messaging in mind while developing LC Builder. Now why not use kind of a mnemonic naming in LCB e.g. sendHandler callHandler dispatchHandler doHandler ? We could still have do