Foundation Framework

[Richmond Mathewson]

This whole thing looks like an awful sort of confession of "F".

If LiveCode is what it should be (a comprehensive programming package) 
it should not have to
rely on users' knowledge of other programming languages to achieve some 
of the things it should
be perfectly capable of doing inwith itself.

I, for one, have ONLY worked with LiveCode and its predecessors 
(HyperCard and so on, side trip to
ToolBook) for about 23 years (well; aberrational "romance" with Visual 
Basic 6 owing to MA requirements:
probably like committing adultery: you suddenly realise what a fool 
you've been and where your true loyalties lie). In fact I haven't really 
done much "elsewhere" since PASCAL 5 (1984) for the plain and
simple reason that LiveCode has been pushed as a complete and 
comprehensive programming package.

So, by doing "this" we are now being told it is not a complete and 
comprehensive programming package.

Well, all I can say is "Thank b*gg*ry my requirements are limited to 
what LC can provide currently" (well, at the moment).

Frankly the thought of having to go and learn C/C++/C#/ObjC? and so on 
fills me with dread: not because I'm
stupid and can't, nor because I'm lazy and can't be bothered: but 
because I have invested all my spare
time (ask my wife about THAT topic) in learning LiveCode, and don't 
simply have the time to start learning
another 4 or 5 programming languages.

I am, at the moment, learning Scratch because I have had requests from 
about 2 dozen parents to teach their children that this Summer: this is 
hardly time-consuming as it is, strictly speaking, a Mickey-mouse
language which one can do things in after about 15 minutes if one has 
even a very basic grasp of any other programming package. C and C++ are, 
most definitely, not like Scratch.

Even LCB makes me wonder slightly: why should it be necessary to invent 
a second programming language to write add-ons for the first one? This 
is like my having to speak in Scots because Bulgarian is somehow
incapable of expressing some ideas: which of course is nonsense as 
Bulgarian is just as good as Scots for
expressing everything.

I wonder how many programmers are going to spend their money on LiveCode 
if they are aware that at a certain point they are going to have to 
leverage one or more other programming languages to achieve
certain things. Now, while I am going to continue to promote LiveCode as 
a very effective teaching and learning tool I am wondering about making 
a fool of myself continuing to tell all the programmers here in Bulgaria 
(a major outsourcing place both for the United States and the EU) that 
LiveCode can do what C++ can do. Especially as 90% of the programmers I 
am acquainted with (I teach their children English, I get paid by them 
to translate some programming stuff, I install Linux for them, and so 
on) think that C++ is the "Bee's Knees".

HyperCard began to fall apart when it started having to have to use 
AppleScript for certain things . . .

Richmond.

On 1/3/17 9:19 pm, hh wrote:
>>> JB wrote:
>>> The Livecode team imported Apple’s Foundation
>>> Framework so you can use its power inside of a
>>> stack instead of writing extensions.
>> JB wrote also:
>> If you want it all prepackaged ask the
>> Livecode team to use the samples in
>> widgets.  They will do what they see
>> is financially beneficial so your money
>> speaks when it comes to changes.
> You certainly don't mean people should learn C/C++/ObjC
> and not use LC any more. So I really don't understand
> the purpose of this thread:
>
> Foundation Framework is "prepackaged" code, also LCB.
> So could you please give us one simple example of what
> you mean with "you can use its power inside of a stack
> instead of writing extensions" (with the help of C/C++/ObjC
> only).
>
> Thanks.
>
>> JB wrote:
>> I did what I could to provide some good
>> examples to help people learn.
>>
>> If you are not making any mistakes then
>> you are not learning anything.
>>
>> If you want it all prepackaged ask the
>> Livecode team to use the samples in
>> widgets.  They will do what they see
>> is financially beneficial so your money
>> speaks when it comes to changes.
>>
>> JB
>>
>>
>>> On Jan 3, 2017, at 5:16 AM, hh <hh at hyperhh.de> wrote:
>>>
>>>> JB wrote:
>>>> Over a year ago they said Foundation was
>>>> imported and you can even use pointers. I
>>>> don’t have anymore info about it.
>>> JB,
>>> thanks. A simple example of an already available foundation
>>> function and a link to a header listing others is here:
>>> http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?p=147232#p147232
>>> (explained there by peter-b, for use in a widget's code)
>>>
>>> But that's probably the very beginning only of what you have
>>> in mind.
>>>
>>>> JB wrote:
>>>> Learning C will help even if for some reason they are having
>>>> problems with Foundation.
>>> Most of us hope that having a good example for copy and paste
>>> will be enough for "similar usages" with small changes. Avoiding
>>> C/C++/objC or java may be, besides LC's cross-platform property,
>>> for many people a main reason to use LiveCode.
>>>
>>> It will be an important community contribution by people like
>>> you to give us such typical good examples!
>>>
>>> hh
>
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