From charles at techstrategies.com.au Mon Aug 1 00:14:46 2016 From: charles at techstrategies.com.au (Charles Warwick) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2016 14:14:46 +1000 Subject: [ ANN ] Release 8.1.0 DP-3 In-Reply-To: <7C62C1E3-9469-4F1B-AEA1-D9722B1674E0@m-r-d.de> References: <9fd81450-cb9d-5e47-f327-47c22ab1d9b8@techstrategies.com.au> <99E7A0DC-6480-4781-92F4-2B696C848109@m-r-d.de> <7C62C1E3-9469-4F1B-AEA1-D9722B1674E0@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <1e639741-4d84-479b-af90-604628ae806f@techstrategies.com.au> On 1/08/2016 7:04 am, Matthias Rebbe wrote: >> Am 31.07.2016 um 05:37 schrieb Charles Warwick : >> >> Yes, FTPS is supported by the external, though you have to use the tsNet commands directly, rather than the standard libUrl calls. >> >> For explicit FTPS transfers, you can do something like this: >> >> local tEmptyHeaderVar, tData, tResultHeaders, tSettings >> put true into tSettings["use_ssl"] >> put "some data to upload" into tData >> put tsNetUploadSync("ftp://ftp.domain.com/path/to/file.dat", tEmptyHeaderVar, tData, tResultHeaders, tSettings) into tResult >> > Charles, > > thanks for your script although it did not work. ;) > But it put me in the right direction. > > I had to modify the put tsNetUploadSync?.. line as follows to get it working > > put tsNetUploadSync("ftp://ftp.domain.com/path/to/file.dat", tEmptyHeaderVar, tData, tResultHeaders, tBytes, tSettings) into tResult > > (the bytes variable tBytes was missing) > > Without that modification i always got the error "tsneterr: (28) Timeout was reached?. Sorry about that! You are absolutely right, the bytes var is needed. Without fixing that, it would have used tSettings as the bytes parameter and not registered the "use_ssl" setting. Regards, Charles From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Aug 1 00:40:48 2016 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2016 23:40:48 -0500 Subject: libURL and New TsNet Commands/Failures In-Reply-To: <2F05D262-D84A-43C9-BCB5-A59B78FE2529@hindu.org> References: <2F05D262-D84A-43C9-BCB5-A59B78FE2529@hindu.org> Message-ID: <60d136d5-3b37-6d7a-0433-cc311b8e8748@hyperactivesw.com> On 7/31/2016 10:46 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote: > AHA.. Yes, "Previous request not complete" > > how do we get to these results? "show up in the log " what log? Sorry, I should have said "my log". My app keeps a text file log of every server transaction that fails. LibURL errors will be in "the result" if something goes wrong. > perhaps if you need to reset the API we can issue something like > > command resetNetworkInterface > put the openSockets() into tCurrentconnections > repeat for each line x in tCurrentConnections > close socket x > end repeat > end resetNetworkInterface > > maybe better practice would be to close the socket after every transfer operation. In my case I don't want to terminate the process, since it's important that every transaction completes. Unless there's a fatal error, the app must wait until the data is sent. The problem I have been working around is that the user sometimes continues to execute actions that require a subsequent transaction and if the first one hasn't completed yet, the error occurs (usually because their connection is slow or they're moving very quickly through the app.) I've got something in place that works most of the time, but not having the problem at all would be a big plus. I think asyncronous transactions and the much faster tsNet external may solve that. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From charles at techstrategies.com.au Mon Aug 1 00:58:47 2016 From: charles at techstrategies.com.au (Charles Warwick) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2016 14:58:47 +1000 Subject: [ ANN ] Release 8.1.0 DP-3 In-Reply-To: References: <6AE03CAD-CB4C-4C58-AB3D-43CE4C9BD24B@hindu.org> <1f24dfda-bf58-e2fe-eb17-71f8b897a700@techstrategies.com.au> Message-ID: <7f0c3880-b212-0eae-db5d-9c7a98a3c217@techstrategies.com.au> On 1/08/2016 7:19 am, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote: > Charles, first? let me congratulate you for getting this into LiveCode > > As it turns out, I was experiencing the infamous silent network API blocking when there is a failed network call? I think there is an error reporting bug somewhere as I believe in earlier versions a script error would be trigger with some expression like > > "last connection incomplete?." I don't remember the exact wording, I know I did see it the other day..but as long as this state persists, no further libURL commands will work. > > I must have run one test in the msg box with a bad password, I had a password with !! in it and I believe those need to be urlEncoded first before passing to the url string. I am surprised that trying a call with a bad password is causing the API to block for you while using tsNet. I have tried that here with several different bad password combinations and every time the command sets the result to "tsneterr: (67) Authentication failure". Are you able to confirm if the lock up is reproducible for you? If this is happening, it would be a bug within the external. tsNet should successfully timeout connections. > So, after that silent failure, (socket still open but broken?) the network API was "stuck" and subsequent tests all failed? after rebooting this morning, everything is working. > > I swear I saw that old error message the other day? but today looking through all 893 lines of the scriptExecutionErrors I can' find it. While a silent failure shouldn't occur (please let me know if it is!), if a "blocking" network request is still being processed with libUrl the standard behaviour of it is to prevent any other "blocking" network requests from being executed and return an error. Within the Indy version of DP3, tsNet with libUrl is designed to replicate this behaviour. This restriction is removed within the Business edition and multiple handlers can make blocking requests (put url x into y, post x to url y, etc.. ) without waiting for the other requests to complete. > I think the old method to clean up was to issue a close all sockets command or something, but it's vague? I haven't played with this for years since we turned off FTP on our servers. Using standard libUrl, (though it isn't documented) you can call libUrlResetAll to reset all network connections. While this does still work when using tsNet, it shouldn't be necessary. If a connection does get stuck however, you can close that individual connection by calling the tsNetCloseConn command. When using libUrl syntax with tsNet, the parameter to this call "pConnectionID" is the URL itself. > > Thanks for your examples. When I get time to wrap my head around it? I will see if I can contribute to the dictionary. Still not sure how to go about that. The tsNet commands are not in the Livecode github, but please feel free to send me an e-mail if you have any suggestions for changes to the documentation. Regards, Charles From charles at techstrategies.com.au Mon Aug 1 01:07:30 2016 From: charles at techstrategies.com.au (Charles Warwick) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2016 15:07:30 +1000 Subject: libURL and New TsNet Commands/Failures In-Reply-To: <60d136d5-3b37-6d7a-0433-cc311b8e8748@hyperactivesw.com> References: <2F05D262-D84A-43C9-BCB5-A59B78FE2529@hindu.org> <60d136d5-3b37-6d7a-0433-cc311b8e8748@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <4e1ac89e-dcfa-fd55-cbb6-3498699c3611@techstrategies.com.au> On 1/08/2016 2:40 pm, J. Landman Gay wrote: > On 7/31/2016 10:46 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote: >> AHA.. Yes, "Previous request not complete" >> >> how do we get to these results? "show up in the log " what log? > > Sorry, I should have said "my log". My app keeps a text file log of > every server transaction that fails. LibURL errors will be in "the > result" if something goes wrong. > The "Previous request not complete" message comes from the libUrl library and will still be generated when using tsNet with the Indy version. > > In my case I don't want to terminate the process, since it's important > that every transaction completes. Unless there's a fatal error, the > app must wait until the data is sent. The problem I have been working > around is that the user sometimes continues to execute actions that > require a subsequent transaction and if the first one hasn't completed > yet, the error occurs (usually because their connection is slow or > they're moving very quickly through the app.) I've got something in > place that works most of the time, but not having the problem at all > would be a big plus. I think asyncronous transactions and the much > faster tsNet external may solve that. > Sounds like a perfect job for asynchronous connections or the Business edition :-) Regards, Charles From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Aug 1 01:16:18 2016 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2016 00:16:18 -0500 Subject: [ ANN ] Release 8.1.0 DP-3 In-Reply-To: <7f0c3880-b212-0eae-db5d-9c7a98a3c217@techstrategies.com.au> References: <6AE03CAD-CB4C-4C58-AB3D-43CE4C9BD24B@hindu.org> <1f24dfda-bf58-e2fe-eb17-71f8b897a700@techstrategies.com.au> <7f0c3880-b212-0eae-db5d-9c7a98a3c217@techstrategies.com.au> Message-ID: On 7/31/2016 11:58 PM, Charles Warwick wrote: > Within the Indy version of DP3, tsNet with libUrl is designed to > replicate this behaviour. This restriction is removed within the > Business edition and multiple handlers can make blocking requests (put > url x into y, post x to url y, etc.. ) without waiting for the other > requests to complete. This is what was posted in the announcement: * Multiple simultaneous asynchronous requests to the same server * SFTP, SMTP, and SMTPS support (synchronous in Indy, async in Business) Doesn't that mean that I can post/get/put to the same server asynchronously? Even with an Indy license? -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From charles at techstrategies.com.au Mon Aug 1 01:41:08 2016 From: charles at techstrategies.com.au (Charles Warwick) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2016 15:41:08 +1000 Subject: [ ANN ] Release 8.1.0 DP-3 In-Reply-To: References: <6AE03CAD-CB4C-4C58-AB3D-43CE4C9BD24B@hindu.org> <1f24dfda-bf58-e2fe-eb17-71f8b897a700@techstrategies.com.au> <7f0c3880-b212-0eae-db5d-9c7a98a3c217@techstrategies.com.au> Message-ID: <76946d18-c30a-4520-be2d-0f31fb2753e5@techstrategies.com.au> On 1/08/2016 3:16 pm, J. Landman Gay wrote: > On 7/31/2016 11:58 PM, Charles Warwick wrote: >> Within the Indy version of DP3, tsNet with libUrl is designed to >> replicate this behaviour. This restriction is removed within the >> Business edition and multiple handlers can make blocking requests (put >> url x into y, post x to url y, etc.. ) without waiting for the other >> requests to complete. > > This is what was posted in the announcement: > > * Multiple simultaneous asynchronous requests to the same server > * SFTP, SMTP, and SMTPS support (synchronous in Indy, async in Business) > > Doesn't that mean that I can post/get/put to the same server > asynchronously? Even with an Indy license? > Absolutely. You can issue post/get/put asynchronous commands even to the same server with the Indy license using tsNet commands directly (tsNetGet, tsNetPost, tsNetUpload, etc.. ) or by using non-blocking libUrl commands like "load url". I was referring to the blocking calls, e.g. "post x to url y", "put x into url y". For these commands, the behaviour of tsNet in Indy is the same as the standard behaviour for libUrl. The script waits for the command to return and in the meantime, no other blocking request can be made. In Business however, blocking calls do not prevent other blocking calls being made and executed at the same time. Hope that makes sense? Regards, Charles From brahma at hindu.org Mon Aug 1 01:43:25 2016 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2016 05:43:25 +0000 Subject: libURL and New TsNet Commands/Failures In-Reply-To: <4e1ac89e-dcfa-fd55-cbb6-3498699c3611@techstrategies.com.au> References: <2F05D262-D84A-43C9-BCB5-A59B78FE2529@hindu.org> <60d136d5-3b37-6d7a-0433-cc311b8e8748@hyperactivesw.com> <4e1ac89e-dcfa-fd55-cbb6-3498699c3611@techstrategies.com.au> Message-ID: <286EC965-A7D1-412E-ADEE-66785469CC0D@hindu.org> @ jacque: It's my understanding that you need to buy the business edition if you want asynchronous connections, even if you are a developer of one.. perhaps I am wrong. @ Charles: thanks for the debug stack.. very useful. But we have a problem, possible but or need more documention on the "how to?" I'm getting an "invalid url" from libURL on my test attempts to upload a whole folder Note that I'm mixing in a tsNetCreateMissingDirs "true" # command because the folders we want to push do not exist. Use case here is the default WordPress blog/wp-content/uploads folder..and the tool I'm working on will allow bloggers to upload folders of images, the stack then does remote xml/rpc to WP to add a post to the blog? ? so far my test stack is working for fetching listings and uploading single files using simple "put" and no explicit libURL* commands? so far so good? but put loads the data into memory first. better to use libURL to read the bin file directly and upload.. I presumed one must loop through files in a folder to upload a folder as there is no "upload folder" in the dictionary?. # set up function initializeConnectionDetails tsNetCreateMissingDirs "true" libURLSetFTPListCommand "NLST" put fld "UserName" into sUserName put fld "PassWord" into sPassword put fld "HostDomain" into sHostDomain put fld "RemoteRootPath" into sRemoteRootPath return ("sftp://" & sUserName & ":" & sPassword & "@" & sHostDomain & sRemoteRootPath & "/") end initializeConnectionDetails # my test is to prompt for a folder and then upload all the files therein to a new folder on the server, the name of which we create on the fly here (name is not based on the source folder on the local machine) on mouseUp put initializeConnectionDetails() into tStem put fld "remoteTarget" after tStem answer folder "Choose a folder to upload" put it into tSourceFolder put files (tSourceFolder) into tFilesToUpload # yay no more default folder required! repeat for each line x in tFilesToUpload libURLftpUploadFile ("binfile:"& tSourceFolder &"/"& x),(tStem & "testUploads/" & x) put the result & cr after tResult end repeat put tResult end mouseUp I get invalid url invalid url invalid url etc.. in my result where the explicit command(s) being issued in the repeat loop would look like this: libURLftpUploadFile \ # local path to file to be uploaded: binfile:/Users/Brahmanathaswami/Documents/App-Development/SivaSivaAppWorking/Coloring module Resources/GIF images (no background)/Standing Ganesha GIF.gif, # remote path to upload to: sftp://user:password at our.hostdomain.com/home/user/public_html/blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/testUploads/Standing%20Ganesha%20GIF.gif Hmm what is going on, I thought? So I tried using libURLftpUpload for the single file that I was doing successfully with "put" like this: on mouseUp put initializeConnectionDetails() into tRemoteDir put fld "remoteTarget" after tRemoteDir answer file "Choose a file to upload" put it into tFilePath set the itemDel to "/" put item -1 of tFilePath into tFilename replace space with "_" in tFileName --put url ("binfile:" & it) into tData --put tData into url( tStem & tFileName) libURLftpUploadFile tData, (tRemoteDir & tFileName) put the result end mouseUp this also returned "invalid url" in the above, we know the URL's are good, because, it works with "put" OK so the filename had spaces so I added this: put urlEncode(tFileName) into tFileName still get "invalid URL So why not with libURLftpUploadFile? Is it because libURLftpUploadFile does not understand SFTP? What am I missing? BR On 7/31/16, 7:07 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Charles Warwick" wrote: >place that works most of the time, but not having the problem at all >would be a big plus. I think asyncronous transactions and the much >faster tsNet external may solve that. > Sounds like a perfect job for asynchronous connections or the Business edition :-) From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Aug 1 01:51:59 2016 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2016 00:51:59 -0500 Subject: [ ANN ] Release 8.1.0 DP-3 In-Reply-To: <76946d18-c30a-4520-be2d-0f31fb2753e5@techstrategies.com.au> References: <6AE03CAD-CB4C-4C58-AB3D-43CE4C9BD24B@hindu.org> <1f24dfda-bf58-e2fe-eb17-71f8b897a700@techstrategies.com.au> <7f0c3880-b212-0eae-db5d-9c7a98a3c217@techstrategies.com.au> <76946d18-c30a-4520-be2d-0f31fb2753e5@techstrategies.com.au> Message-ID: <3ea40b5f-0fd9-1909-4617-7a230429e040@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/1/2016 12:41 AM, Charles Warwick wrote: > On 1/08/2016 3:16 pm, J. Landman Gay wrote: >> On 7/31/2016 11:58 PM, Charles Warwick wrote: >>> Within the Indy version of DP3, tsNet with libUrl is designed to >>> replicate this behaviour. This restriction is removed within the >>> Business edition and multiple handlers can make blocking requests (put >>> url x into y, post x to url y, etc.. ) without waiting for the other >>> requests to complete. >> >> This is what was posted in the announcement: >> >> * Multiple simultaneous asynchronous requests to the same server >> * SFTP, SMTP, and SMTPS support (synchronous in Indy, async in Business) >> >> Doesn't that mean that I can post/get/put to the same server >> asynchronously? Even with an Indy license? >> > > Absolutely. You can issue post/get/put asynchronous commands even to > the same server with the Indy license using tsNet commands directly > (tsNetGet, tsNetPost, tsNetUpload, etc.. ) or by using non-blocking > libUrl commands like "load url". > > I was referring to the blocking calls, e.g. "post x to url y", "put x > into url y". For these commands, the behaviour of tsNet in Indy is the > same as the standard behaviour for libUrl. The script waits for the > command to return and in the meantime, no other blocking request can be > made. > > In Business however, blocking calls do not prevent other blocking calls > being made and executed at the same time. > > Hope that makes sense? Yes, thank you. I was afraid I'd got all excited for nothing. ;) And let me add my appreciation for providing us with this tool, you've made a whole lot of people very happy. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From irog at mac.com Mon Aug 1 01:56:53 2016 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2016 22:56:53 -0700 Subject: Polygon Smoothing In-Reply-To: <1469955310164-4707131.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <6AE03CAD-CB4C-4C58-AB3D-43CE4C9BD24B@hindu.org> <1469955310164-4707131.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: Wow! There?s a lot here. It?s going to take me some time to digest. Thanks very much! > On Jul 31, 2016, at 1:55 AM, [-hh] wrote: > > Smoothing-(Bezier-)Algorithms. > the usability depends on what you want to do: > > [1] Smooth draw or > [2] approximate a few polygon lines by a smooth curve. > > HTML5 version (check "smoothing"). > http://hh.on-rev.com/html5/krikelKrakel2a-8.0.0-dp-15X.html > > Runs much faster in the IDE, see how to download the stack > in the HTML5 forum ("Successfull test"). > > Contains algorithms of Decasteljau (good for [1]) > and of Chaikin and Shemanarev (may better for [2]). > > [1] is even fast enough for Raspi > Raspi collection stack #30, runs also (faster) on all other > desktop platforms. > http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?p=104113#p104113 > > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/ANN-Release-8-1-0-DP-3-tp4707068p4707131.html > Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From charles at techstrategies.com.au Mon Aug 1 02:02:27 2016 From: charles at techstrategies.com.au (Charles Warwick) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2016 16:02:27 +1000 Subject: libURL and New TsNet Commands/Failures In-Reply-To: <286EC965-A7D1-412E-ADEE-66785469CC0D@hindu.org> References: <2F05D262-D84A-43C9-BCB5-A59B78FE2529@hindu.org> <60d136d5-3b37-6d7a-0433-cc311b8e8748@hyperactivesw.com> <4e1ac89e-dcfa-fd55-cbb6-3498699c3611@techstrategies.com.au> <286EC965-A7D1-412E-ADEE-66785469CC0D@hindu.org> Message-ID: On 1/08/2016 3:43 pm, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote: > @ jacque: It's my understanding that you need to buy the business edition if you want asynchronous connections, even if you are a developer of one.. perhaps I am wrong. You only need the business edition for async connections using SFTP or SMTP(S) protocols. > @ Charles: thanks for the debug stack.. very useful. But we have a problem, possible but or need more documention on the "how to?" > > I'm getting an "invalid url" from libURL on my test attempts to upload a whole folder > > Note that I'm mixing in a > > tsNetCreateMissingDirs "true" # command > > because the folders we want to push do not exist. > > Use case here is the default WordPress blog/wp-content/uploads folder..and the tool I'm working on will allow bloggers to upload folders of images, the stack then does remote xml/rpc to WP to add a post to the blog? ? > > so far my test stack is working for fetching listings and uploading single files using simple "put" and no explicit libURL* commands? so far so good? but put loads the data into memory first. better to use libURL to read the bin file directly and upload.. If you want to avoid loading the data into memory first, the best command for that would be tsNetUploadFileSync. Let me know if you need any help working out the syntax for that. > I presumed one must loop through files in a folder to upload a folder as there is no "upload folder" in the dictionary?. Yes, that is right. > > So why not with libURLftpUploadFile? > > Is it because libURLftpUploadFile does not understand SFTP? > > What am I missing? You guessed correctly. :-) The libUrlFtpUploadFile handler in the standard libUrl library returns "invalid url" if it doesn't start with "ftp". I'll check with the LC team, but it probably makes sense to allow that command to work with SFTP as well if it detects the presence of tsNet. Regards, Charles From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Mon Aug 1 04:19:30 2016 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2016 10:19:30 +0200 Subject: looking for an alternative to KAGI, because KAGI ceased operations (: Message-ID: Hi, today i was informed that Kagi has ceased operations as of July 31st, 2016. I used KAGI to sell my tool BRx Konverter and was already wondering why i did not receive my payout this month and the last payment was also later than normal. Now i know?. I have to find an other way to sell my product now. I am thinking of using PayPal for it. My software is unlocked with a key, so i need some communication between PayPal (or any other shareware seller, if don?t choose PayPal) and my key generator. So the customer gets the key right after payment. This was not needed with KAGI, because KAGI integrated my livecode key generator stack within the order process for my product. Kagi provided the invoice (with the key) from them to the customer with all the vat handling. Has anyone already done such thing with Paypal or other platforms like Fastspring or Cleverbridge? And if is use Paypal, do i have to write invoices again or is Paypal providing a correct payment receipt? Btw., I remember that my first online purchase ever was done with KAGI long long time ago. It?s so sad? Regards, Matthias From terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au Mon Aug 1 04:53:12 2016 From: terry.judd at unimelb.edu.au (Terry Judd) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2016 08:53:12 +0000 Subject: [ ANN ] Release 8.1.0 DP-3 In-Reply-To: <3ea40b5f-0fd9-1909-4617-7a230429e040@hyperactivesw.com> References: <6AE03CAD-CB4C-4C58-AB3D-43CE4C9BD24B@hindu.org> <1f24dfda-bf58-e2fe-eb17-71f8b897a700@techstrategies.com.au> <7f0c3880-b212-0eae-db5d-9c7a98a3c217@techstrategies.com.au> <76946d18-c30a-4520-be2d-0f31fb2753e5@techstrategies.com.au> <3ea40b5f-0fd9-1909-4617-7a230429e040@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: On 1/08/2016 3:51 pm, "use-livecode on behalf of J. Landman Gay" wrote: >On 8/1/2016 12:41 AM, Charles Warwick wrote: >> On 1/08/2016 3:16 pm, J. Landman Gay wrote: >>> On 7/31/2016 11:58 PM, Charles Warwick wrote: >>>> Within the Indy version of DP3, tsNet with libUrl is designed to >>>> replicate this behaviour. This restriction is removed within the >>>> Business edition and multiple handlers can make blocking requests (put >>>> url x into y, post x to url y, etc.. ) without waiting for the other >>>> requests to complete. >>> >>> This is what was posted in the announcement: >>> >>> * Multiple simultaneous asynchronous requests to the same server >>> * SFTP, SMTP, and SMTPS support (synchronous in Indy, async in >>>Business) >>> >>> Doesn't that mean that I can post/get/put to the same server >>> asynchronously? Even with an Indy license? >>> >> >> Absolutely. You can issue post/get/put asynchronous commands even to >> the same server with the Indy license using tsNet commands directly >> (tsNetGet, tsNetPost, tsNetUpload, etc.. ) or by using non-blocking >> libUrl commands like "load url". >> >> I was referring to the blocking calls, e.g. "post x to url y", "put x >> into url y". For these commands, the behaviour of tsNet in Indy is the >> same as the standard behaviour for libUrl. The script waits for the >> command to return and in the meantime, no other blocking request can be >> made. >> >> In Business however, blocking calls do not prevent other blocking calls >> being made and executed at the same time. >> >> Hope that makes sense? > >Yes, thank you. I was afraid I'd got all excited for nothing. ;) And let >me add my appreciation for providing us with this tool, you've made a >whole lot of people very happy. +1 Being able to do async GET and POST is a fantastic addition to Livecode. Love it! Terry? From peter.brett at livecode.com Mon Aug 1 05:45:02 2016 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2016 10:45:02 +0100 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 44 Message-ID: <0b89be16-286e-118c-7f01-deaf01940677@livecode.com> Hi all, Read about new developments in LiveCode open source and the open source community in today's edition of the "This Week in LiveCode" newsletter! Read issue #44 here: https://goo.gl/X3mifS This is a weekly newsletter about LiveCode, focussing on what's been going on in and around the open source project. New issues will be released weekly on Mondays. We have a dedicated mailing list that will deliver each issue directly to you e-mail, so you don't miss any! Are you doing something interesting with LiveCode Community Edition? Please get in touch and get it featured in "This Week in LiveCode"! Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Technical Project Manager LiveCode on reddit: https://reddit.com/r/livecode From guglielmo at braguglia.ch Mon Aug 1 05:50:45 2016 From: guglielmo at braguglia.ch (Guglielmo Braguglia) Date: Mon, 01 Aug 2016 11:50:45 +0200 Subject: looking for an alternative to KAGI, because KAGI ceased operations (: In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <579F1B75.2080802@braguglia.ch> Hi Matthias, maybe this page can give you some useful info about using Paypal (and Zygodact) ... http://www.hyperactivesw.com/cgipaypal/index.html ;) Guglielmo Braguglia > Matthias Rebbe > 1 August 2016 at 10:19 AM > Hi, > > today i was informed that Kagi has ceased operations as of July 31st, > 2016. > I used KAGI to sell my tool BRx Konverter and was already wondering > why i did not receive my payout this month and the last payment was > also later than normal. > Now i know?. > > I have to find an other way to sell my product now. > > I am thinking of using PayPal for it. My software is unlocked with a > key, so i need some communication between PayPal (or any other > shareware seller, if don?t choose PayPal) and > my key generator. So the customer gets the key right after payment. > This was not needed with KAGI, because KAGI integrated my livecode key > generator stack within the order process for my product. Kagi provided > the invoice (with the key) from them to the customer with all the vat > handling. > > Has anyone already done such thing with Paypal or other platforms like > Fastspring or Cleverbridge? > And if is use Paypal, do i have to write invoices again or is Paypal > providing a correct payment receipt? > > Btw., I remember that my first online purchase ever was done with KAGI > long long time ago. > It?s so sad? > > Regards, > > Matthias > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From livfoss at mac.com Mon Aug 1 07:51:51 2016 From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel) Date: Mon, 01 Aug 2016 12:51:51 +0100 Subject: looking for an alternative to KAGI, because KAGI ceased operations (: In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <36BE2E34-1D2D-4F7F-A5C5-7BA56A401843@mac.com> Oh, rude word! Or several rude words! Only very recently with his kind help I copied Matthias? method of using Kagi together with Jacque Gay?s Zygodact and got the whole thing working. I did this partly because I found the PayPal ?Buy Now? button solution tricky, even following Jacque?s excellent instructions (already quoted in another reply). Dang. Now I know what to do on the train to Edinburgh this evening? Graham > On 1 Aug 2016, at 09:19, Matthias Rebbe wrote: > > Hi, > > today i was informed that Kagi has ceased operations as of July 31st, 2016. > I used KAGI to sell my tool BRx Konverter and was already wondering why i did not receive my payout this month and the last payment was also later than normal. > Now i know?. > > I have to find an other way to sell my product now. > > I am thinking of using PayPal for it. My software is unlocked with a key, so i need some communication between PayPal (or any other shareware seller, if don?t choose PayPal) and > my key generator. So the customer gets the key right after payment. This was not needed with KAGI, because KAGI integrated my livecode key generator stack within the order process for my product. Kagi provided the invoice (with the key) from them to the customer with all the vat handling. > > Has anyone already done such thing with Paypal or other platforms like Fastspring or Cleverbridge? > And if is use Paypal, do i have to write invoices again or is Paypal providing a correct payment receipt? > > Btw., I remember that my first online purchase ever was done with KAGI long long time ago. > It?s so sad? > > Regards, > > Matthias > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at researchware.com Mon Aug 1 08:00:29 2016 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Mon, 01 Aug 2016 08:00:29 -0400 Subject: looking for an alternative to KAGI, because KAGI ceased operations (: In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <579F39DD.5050707@researchware.com> We too use(d) Kagi and realized something was not right last week when no one would reply to any email or phone calls. Unfortunately, not in enough time to grab some reports and other information that will cost us lots of hours of time. And, of course, hoping they payout owed sales at they state on their web site. We're in the process of swicthing to Avangate. It truly is annoying that they shut the storemanager down without allowing some warning or time for people in transition to access product descriotions, pricing data, and more. Poorly handled Kagi! Paul Dupuis Researchware On 8/1/2016 4:19 AM, Matthias Rebbe wrote: > Hi, > > today i was informed that Kagi has ceased operations as of July 31st, 2016. > I used KAGI to sell my tool BRx Konverter and was already wondering why i did not receive my payout this month and the last payment was also later than normal. > Now i know?. > > I have to find an other way to sell my product now. > > I am thinking of using PayPal for it. My software is unlocked with a key, so i need some communication between PayPal (or any other shareware seller, if don?t choose PayPal) and > my key generator. So the customer gets the key right after payment. This was not needed with KAGI, because KAGI integrated my livecode key generator stack within the order process for my product. Kagi provided the invoice (with the key) from them to the customer with all the vat handling. > > Has anyone already done such thing with Paypal or other platforms like Fastspring or Cleverbridge? > And if is use Paypal, do i have to write invoices again or is Paypal providing a correct payment receipt? > > Btw., I remember that my first online purchase ever was done with KAGI long long time ago. > It?s so sad? > > Regards, > > Matthias > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From benr_mc at cogapp.com Mon Aug 1 10:20:09 2016 From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2016 15:20:09 +0100 Subject: looking for an alternative to KAGI, because KAGI ceased operations (: In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This is very sad news. Kagi has served the industry incredibly well for an incredibly long time. I have some idea of just how hard Kee personally worked in pursuit of this. I wish him the best. Ben On 01/08/2016 09:19, Matthias Rebbe wrote: > today i was informed that Kagi has ceased operations as of July 31st, 2016. From paul at researchware.com Mon Aug 1 10:52:03 2016 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Mon, 01 Aug 2016 10:52:03 -0400 Subject: looking for an alternative to KAGI, because KAGI ceased operations (: In-Reply-To: <579F39DD.5050707@researchware.com> References: <579F39DD.5050707@researchware.com> Message-ID: <579F6213.9040505@researchware.com> I amend my prior note. I managed to reach Kee (CEO of Kagi) at his personal email this morning. He committed to trying to to make the Suplier backend available for some transition period so Kagi supplier have access to product decriptions, coupon codes for ongoing promotions, reporting and so on to aid in their transition to other eCommerce providers. Considering how busy he must be, I thought the speed of his reply and willingness to try to make the management system available for transition was commendable of him. On 8/1/2016 8:00 AM, Paul Dupuis wrote: > We too use(d) Kagi and realized something was not right last week when > no one would reply to any email or phone calls. Unfortunately, not in > enough time to grab some reports and other information that will cost us > lots of hours of time. And, of course, hoping they payout owed sales at > they state on their web site. > > We're in the process of swicthing to Avangate. It truly is annoying that > they shut the storemanager down without allowing some warning or time > for people in transition to access product descriotions, pricing data, > and more. Poorly handled Kagi! > > Paul Dupuis > Researchware > > On 8/1/2016 4:19 AM, Matthias Rebbe wrote: >> Hi, >> >> today i was informed that Kagi has ceased operations as of July 31st, 2016. >> I used KAGI to sell my tool BRx Konverter and was already wondering why i did not receive my payout this month and the last payment was also later than normal. >> Now i know?. >> >> I have to find an other way to sell my product now. >> >> I am thinking of using PayPal for it. My software is unlocked with a key, so i need some communication between PayPal (or any other shareware seller, if don?t choose PayPal) and >> my key generator. So the customer gets the key right after payment. This was not needed with KAGI, because KAGI integrated my livecode key generator stack within the order process for my product. Kagi provided the invoice (with the key) from them to the customer with all the vat handling. >> >> Has anyone already done such thing with Paypal or other platforms like Fastspring or Cleverbridge? >> And if is use Paypal, do i have to write invoices again or is Paypal providing a correct payment receipt? >> >> Btw., I remember that my first online purchase ever was done with KAGI long long time ago. >> It?s so sad? >> >> Regards, >> >> Matthias >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From lfredricks at proactive-intl.com Mon Aug 1 11:54:35 2016 From: lfredricks at proactive-intl.com (Lynn Fredricks) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2016 08:54:35 -0700 Subject: looking for an alternative to KAGI, because KAGI ceased operations (: In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > Has anyone already done such thing with Paypal or other > platforms like Fastspring or Cleverbridge? > And if is use Paypal, do i have to write invoices again or is > Paypal providing a correct payment receipt? There was a point where we used Esellerate for Omegabundle sales (because so many vendors who participated also used it), but their platform became buggier and buggier over time, and support less and less responsive. Then we looked at Fastspring. Better overall appearance, but too expensive for what they were offering. Cliverbridge we didn't approach for replacement because another client had to change their pricing structure to accommodate the additional money they were losing. If you can code your app to use Paypal and collect sufficient customer information, then that's what I would do. Too many processing services try to present themselves as methods to promote sales but they do not. You aren't even, say, getting the smidgen of additional value of being on the Mac App Store, by using them. Best regards, Lynn Fredricks Paradigma Software http://www.paradigmasoft.com Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server From dan at clearvisiontech.com Mon Aug 1 12:05:37 2016 From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2016 09:05:37 -0700 Subject: MORE HELP with: open printing for pdf... SOLVED In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello again! In case you were following along, I finally figured this out... In an attempt to deliver my application as easily as possible, I have my customers download only the exe from my site -- just this one file. All extra files (extra stacks, images, dlls, etc.) are the downloaded by the exe at runtime. Works perfectly! In this case however, there was a problem downloading the "revpdfprinter.dll" file. The file was being created, but it was 0 bytes. So, when the app checked to see if the file was there, it was -- but it was invalid. So, I put in an extra check to verify that the size of the dll is exactly 753664 bytes. If it's not we download it again. If it fails again, then I point them to a web page that has the file and instructions. Problem solved. Time for a fresh cup of coffee. -Dan > Hi Dan, > > i am using revPrintText in my printing to PDF. i.e. > > open printing to pdf tFile > revPrintText theHTMLText > close printing > > where theHTMLText is basically 'the htmlText" or a target field. This is > working for me in *most* cases. Our field content that gets converted to > a PDF ranges from plain text to very rich content, including embedded > images in the field (via the imageSource of char x). This produces a > single, properly paged, PDF. However with some content - we have yet to > figure out what field content triggers it - we get a script execution > error in revPrintText > > Object: property is not an integer: 4294907844 (Line 0, column 0) > Chunk: can't set property: (Line 162, column 22) > Object: can't set object property: 4294907844 (Line 162, column 7) > set: can't set property: 4294907844 (Line 162, column 1) > repeat: error in statement: (Line 141, column 1) > Handler: error in statement: revPrintText (Line 141, column 1) > Object ID: stack "revprintlibrary > > > So, we may have to change to using print card or something else. I have > no experience at using open printing for PDF with anything other than > revPrintText, so I am sorry, but I don't know what may be the cause of > the problem you've run into. > > -- Paul > > On 7/28/2016 2:11 PM, Dan Friedman wrote: >> Monte (and Paul), >> >> Thanks for reporting your findings. I have been struggling with this issue for some time (with LC 7.0.1). Adding the default folder to the path to the DLL fixed the problem. >> >> However, now that it's PDFing, a new problem exists. If I "open printing to pdf" and then run multiple "print card" commands, each print comes out as a separate document and I am asked to select a location to save the output for each page. I haven't issues a "close printing" command yet, but it's still outputting separate PDFs. It works fine in the IDE, it works fine in the Mac Standalone, but I get this odd behavior on with the Windows standalone. >> >> One note... I "open printing to pdf" in stack A. Then, I open stack B and do the "print card" commands. Then, I close stack B and stack A issues the "close printing" command. I then repeat as needed. I don't think this matters as it works in the IDE and on the Mac. >> >> >> Any thoughts? >> >> Thank you in advance! >> -Dan >> >> >>> On 27 Jul 2016, at 4:43 PM, Paul Dupuis wrote: >>> >>> Monte, >>> >>> Thank you so much - exactly that - so for LC6.x I added the follow which >>> address the problem whether in the IDE or standalone >>> >>> put the defaultFolder into tSaveDefaultFolder >>> if (the environment is "development") then -- IDE >>> set the defaultFolder to specialFolderPath("engine") >>> else -- standalone >>> set the defaultFolder to appPath() >>> end if >>> >>> -- do my PDF printing >>> >>> set the defaultFolder to tSaveDefaultFolder >>> >>> If I every see you at a LiveCode Conference (I have to attend Edinburgh >>> via webcast this year), I owe you drinks or a meal or both! From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Aug 1 13:02:54 2016 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 01 Aug 2016 12:02:54 -0500 Subject: looking for an alternative to KAGI, because KAGI ceased operations (: In-Reply-To: <579F1B75.2080802@braguglia.ch> References: <579F1B75.2080802@braguglia.ch> Message-ID: <156470ee630.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> I've been using this script for years now and it's been reliable. The community helped me debug it and in return I've given it back to anyone who wants it. You should be able to just replace the values of the variables at the top and be good to go, but do test it in the PayPal sandbox before release. I'm so sorry to hear about Kagi. Kee is the nicest guy you'd ever hope to meet and has been such a valuable addition to our community. I thought Kagi would last forever. So sad. Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On August 1, 2016 4:52:41 AM Guglielmo Braguglia wrote: > Hi Matthias, > maybe this page can give you some useful info about using Paypal (and > Zygodact) ... http://www.hyperactivesw.com/cgipaypal/index.html ;) > > Guglielmo Braguglia > >> Matthias Rebbe >> 1 August 2016 at 10:19 AM >> Hi, >> >> today i was informed that Kagi has ceased operations as of July 31st, >> 2016. >> I used KAGI to sell my tool BRx Konverter and was already wondering >> why i did not receive my payout this month and the last payment was >> also later than normal. >> Now i know?. >> >> I have to find an other way to sell my product now. >> >> I am thinking of using PayPal for it. My software is unlocked with a >> key, so i need some communication between PayPal (or any other >> shareware seller, if don?t choose PayPal) and >> my key generator. So the customer gets the key right after payment. >> This was not needed with KAGI, because KAGI integrated my livecode key >> generator stack within the order process for my product. Kagi provided >> the invoice (with the key) from them to the customer with all the vat >> handling. >> >> Has anyone already done such thing with Paypal or other platforms like >> Fastspring or Cleverbridge? >> And if is use Paypal, do i have to write invoices again or is Paypal >> providing a correct payment receipt? >> >> Btw., I remember that my first online purchase ever was done with KAGI >> long long time ago. >> It?s so sad? >> >> Regards, >> >> Matthias >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From brahma at hindu.org Mon Aug 1 14:10:44 2016 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2016 18:10:44 +0000 Subject: [ ANN ] Release 8.1.0 DP-3 In-Reply-To: References: <6AE03CAD-CB4C-4C58-AB3D-43CE4C9BD24B@hindu.org> <1f24dfda-bf58-e2fe-eb17-71f8b897a700@techstrategies.com.au> <7f0c3880-b212-0eae-db5d-9c7a98a3c217@techstrategies.com.au> <76946d18-c30a-4520-be2d-0f31fb2753e5@techstrategies.com.au> <3ea40b5f-0fd9-1909-4617-7a230429e040@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <24E6D8A0-D20D-4366-8CF8-F709063FEB3B@hindu.org> @Charles: So, in effect, just to clarify my understanding? the *only* difference between the TSnet indy and business license is that the indy user has the added burden of coding explicit tsNet commands to get the same asynchronous behavior that the business user can get with simple calls that were formerly blocking. But otherwise, the exact same asychronous task(s) can be accomplished with either license. Correct? On 7/31/16, 10:53 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Terry Judd" wrote: Absolutely. You can issue post/get/put asynchronous commands even to the same server with the Indy license using tsNet commands directly (tsNetGet, tsNetPost, tsNetUpload, etc.. ) or by using non-blocking libUrl commands like "load url". I was referring to the blocking calls, e.g. "post x to url y", "put x into url y". For these commands, the behaviour of tsNet in Indy is the same as the standard behaviour for libUrl. The script waits for the command to return and in the meantime, no other blocking request can be made. In Business however, blocking calls do not prevent other blocking calls being made and executed at the same time. Hope that makes sense? From revolution at jaedworks.com Mon Aug 1 14:17:48 2016 From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2016 11:17:48 -0700 Subject: pageHeights woes Message-ID: I'm trying to debug a printing problem, and getting (under certain circumstances) crazy values for the last line of a field's pageHeights. Specifically, the last line of the pageHeights is sometimes either negative or very large (closer to 2^32 than I think can be coincidental). I'm working on narrowing it down for a bug report, but has anyone else seen this? From brahma at hindu.org Mon Aug 1 14:19:07 2016 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2016 18:19:07 +0000 Subject: libURL and New TsNet Commands/Failures In-Reply-To: References: <2F05D262-D84A-43C9-BCB5-A59B78FE2529@hindu.org> <60d136d5-3b37-6d7a-0433-cc311b8e8748@hyperactivesw.com> <4e1ac89e-dcfa-fd55-cbb6-3498699c3611@techstrategies.com.au> <286EC965-A7D1-412E-ADEE-66785469CC0D@hindu.org> Message-ID: <5DB78610-A2F1-4E47-BDF3-ECA2AE9C0100@hindu.org> charles at techstrategies.com.au> wrote: I'll check with the LC team, but it probably makes sense to allow that command to work with SFTP as well if it detects the presence of tsNet. in case it's easier for them to track, I made an official enhancement request to that effect bug 18124 - libURL commands should find and use TsNet you may wish to add clarity there unless that discussion is better conducted in the backroom. BR From brahma at hindu.org Mon Aug 1 14:53:50 2016 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2016 18:53:50 +0000 Subject: libURL and New TsNet Commands/Failures In-Reply-To: References: <2F05D262-D84A-43C9-BCB5-A59B78FE2529@hindu.org> <60d136d5-3b37-6d7a-0433-cc311b8e8748@hyperactivesw.com> <4e1ac89e-dcfa-fd55-cbb6-3498699c3611@techstrategies.com.au> <286EC965-A7D1-412E-ADEE-66785469CC0D@hindu.org> Message-ID: <1348E389-0B46-46C0-9DDC-9FA40F474B55@hindu.org> charles at techstrategies.com.au> wrote: If you want to avoid loading the data into memory first, the best command for that would be tsNetUploadFileSync. Let me know if you need any help working out the syntax for that. I (indy licensed user) did my best to implement this (see my code below) but got this as an error message: executing at 8:50:14 AM Type external: unlicensed Object Upload A File with tsNet Line Hint tsNet Stack script: function setTsNetSettings tsNetCreateMissingDirs "true" put "false" into aTsNetSettings["use_ssl"] put "false" into aTsNetSettings["no_transfer"] put "" into aTsNetSettings["no_reuse"] put "false" into aTsNetSettings["save_sent_headers"] put fld "UserName" into aTsNetSettings["username"] put fld "PassWord" into aTsNetSettings["password"] put "" into aTsNetSettings["ssh_host_public_key"] put "" into aTsNetSettings["proxy_headers"] end setTsNetSettings Button script # test with a single file for starters: on mouseUp # see stack script for the set ups: put initializeConnectionDetails() into tStem put setTsNetSettings() into tTsSettings put fld "remoteTarget" after tStem answer file "Choose a file to upload" put it into tFilePath set the itemDel to "/" put item -1 of tFilePath into tFilename replace space with "_" in tFileName # for now create an arbitrary location to upload to # assume the tsNetCreateMissingDirs "true" will # take care of the option to auto mkDir as needed serverside put (tStem & "testUploads/" & tFilename) into tRemoteLocation # from dictionary the form for tsNet upload is: # tsNetUploadFileSync(pFile, pURL, pHeaders, pOutHeaders, pBytes, [pSettings]) get tsNetUploadFileSync(tFilePath,tRemoteLocation,pOutheaders,pBytes,tTsSettings) put it & cr & cr after tOutput put the result after tOutput put tOutput into fld "downloadedData" end mouseUp # result executing at 8:50:14 AM Type external: unlicensed Object Upload A File with tsNet Line Hint tsNet From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Aug 1 15:25:55 2016 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2016 14:25:55 -0500 Subject: [ ANN ] Release 8.1.0 DP-3 In-Reply-To: <76946d18-c30a-4520-be2d-0f31fb2753e5@techstrategies.com.au> References: <6AE03CAD-CB4C-4C58-AB3D-43CE4C9BD24B@hindu.org> <1f24dfda-bf58-e2fe-eb17-71f8b897a700@techstrategies.com.au> <7f0c3880-b212-0eae-db5d-9c7a98a3c217@techstrategies.com.au> <76946d18-c30a-4520-be2d-0f31fb2753e5@techstrategies.com.au> Message-ID: <53141730-bd2b-3e5b-5760-668e86be35a6@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/1/2016 12:41 AM, Charles Warwick wrote: > You can issue post/get/put asynchronous commands even to the same server > with the Indy license using tsNet commands directly Remind me, is "get url" blocking? -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From brahma at hindu.org Mon Aug 1 15:48:39 2016 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2016 19:48:39 +0000 Subject: libURL and New TsNet Commands/Failures In-Reply-To: <1348E389-0B46-46C0-9DDC-9FA40F474B55@hindu.org> References: <2F05D262-D84A-43C9-BCB5-A59B78FE2529@hindu.org> <60d136d5-3b37-6d7a-0433-cc311b8e8748@hyperactivesw.com> <4e1ac89e-dcfa-fd55-cbb6-3498699c3611@techstrategies.com.au> <286EC965-A7D1-412E-ADEE-66785469CC0D@hindu.org> <1348E389-0B46-46C0-9DDC-9FA40F474B55@hindu.org> Message-ID: <8B789BE2-95F9-4B2D-A43B-15D826EE556A@hindu.org> OK since a) "libURLftpUploadFile" has no hook to/support from, tsNet for schema "sftp://" AND b) I hit the "no business license" wall on attempt to use "tsNetUploadFileSync" I regressed back to "put" We are uploading small web optimized files in this use case so reading in the data before "put" is not a big issue time wise and upside is: very easy to write: on mouseUp put initializeConnectionDetails() into tStem # the above generates the full absolute sftp:// user path to the target directory # based on UI fields put fld "remoteTarget" after tStem answer folder "Choose a folder to upload" put it into tSourceFolder put files (tSourceFolder) into tFilesToUpload repeat for each line x in tFilesToUpload put x into tFileForWeb replace space with "_" in tFileForWeb # path to local put tSourceFolder & "/" & x into tFileToUpload # path on remote put tStem& "transferTests/" & tFileForWeb into tRemoteFile put url ("binfile:/" & tFileToUpload) into url( tRemoteFile) end repeat end mouseUp This meets our requirements for now? if there is any heavy lifting to do it is usually by those who have enough expertise and login permissions to use their FTP clients.. no reason to re-invent that. For this "little sister blogger" use case ? "put" with SFTP will serve. BR On 8/1/16, 8:53 AM, brahma at hindu.org> wrote: I (indy licensed user) did my best to implement tsNetUploadFileSync (see my code belowl ast post on this) but got this as an error message: executing at 8:50:14 AM Type external: unlicensed Object Upload A File with tsNet Line Hint tsNet From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Mon Aug 1 16:11:48 2016 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2016 22:11:48 +0200 Subject: looking for an alternative to KAGI, because KAGI ceased operations (: In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9BD1715B-F3DF-4283-9889-C88550A9BEF1@m-r-d.de> It seems i cannot use PayPal. I am living in Germany and when selling to EU residents i have to charge the VAT rate of the buyers country. Unfortunately Paypal just does the payment processing, but not invoicing and vat handling Every month or every 3 months i have to do a VAT declaration for every EU country i sold my product to. That is very time consuming. Cleverbridge, Fastpring, Avangate and the others do the complete invoicing and Vat handling for the seller. That?s really comfortable. Matthias From alex at tweedly.net Mon Aug 1 16:39:04 2016 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2016 21:39:04 +0100 Subject: The Joy of Removing Features. Message-ID: Part 1 of a 4-part series on developing simple apps for photo management and viewing. A few months ago I realized I was coming to the end of my current Livecode project / interest, and it was time to find a new personal project for my Livecode time. I am a hobbyist developer using Livecode - most days I have an hour or less to spend on Livecode; some days (good days) that time is fully used up with reading, thinking about and being inspired by the discussions on the use-livecode mailing list, while on other days I do actually get a little bit of time to spend indulging my interest in writing code / scripts / apps. I decided I would build myself a little tool to help manage and view photos (photography being my other time-consuming hobby :-). Over the last few years, I've used a variety of programs to manage and view photos : On Windows, I used to use, and my other family members still use Google's Picasa - it's OK, but a bit slow (esp. with larger photo collections). (I have around 30,000 photos, my daughter has around 50,000 ....) For me, iPhoto (Macbook Pro) was good for a while, but as the number of photos increased on my laptop, it got slower, and slower ... and s.l.o.w.e.r and .... I know I'm not the only one who's had that problem with iPhoto, and I see from reviews that improved performance was one of the major targets, and apparently successes, for "Photos for Mac". However, I had already bought myself a copy of Adobe's Lightroom5, which is a more capable application. However, even with Lightroom I find speed a problem. Speed is fine, even great, once it's in use - but the start-up time and close-down times are very poor. From a cold start it takes about 1-1/2 minutes for LR to get ready to use. So if I'm entering a "Lightroom session", that's fine - 1 minute out of a couple of hours is negligible. But if I just want to quickly view - or show someone else - the photos I took one day, or those that someone else emailed to me - that 1-1/2 minutes is far too long. I decided to build something for myself; and for a couple of months I enjoyed building it, but eventually I realized that I was suffering from "creeping featurism", or more accurately "galloping featurism" :-) Every time I turned round, I thought of another thing that would be "nice to add", and I added it. And if I had stayed on that path, I would have built myself a very second-rate version of Lightroom or iPhoto, bloated and slow to start. So I've spent the last week removing features, and it's the most fun I've had programming in a long time :-) I realized I could do without : - categories, tags, collections, ... - menus - buttons (with one exception - a help button) Everything is controlled the old-fashioned way - using keys; -> and <- to change photo, "F" to switch in/out of full screen, "D" to specify a new directory of photos, and "Q" to quit. The app is tiny, and a cold start takes about 10 seconds. Once I'm sure I've properly tested it on all platforms, I'll put it up on revOnline, and anyone else whose needs are too simple to be satisfied by Google or Adobe or Apple can enjoy the speed and simplicity of it. Coming soon - but not very soon, I only have an hour a day :: Part 2 - how to clean up photos from your overloaded Macbook. -- Alex. From alex at tweedly.net Mon Aug 1 17:10:28 2016 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2016 22:10:28 +0100 Subject: OT: Need better hardware vs need better software. Message-ID: <0d0b70b4-903f-980d-382c-b5f1d9876afa@tweedly.net> I recently listened to an episode of BBC Radio 4's "Peter Day's World of Business" (A podcast series I highly recommend), about Chattanooga http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03wxx6w Chattanooga is a US city which used to be very much a heavy industry and transport city, and has suffered job losses and economic hard times; it has a (not unusual for the US) public (i.e. city-owned) utility company, which has recently installed Gigabit Fibre Internet throughout the city. One of the items on the program discussed the benefits of Gig Internet (as in "is it actually important ?"). The example given was a radiographer's office; each radiographer needs to download and examine multiple high-res images. Because it's the US, these are typically NOT in-house or on-campus downloads, they are from separate businesses (hospitals, clinics, ...) and hence they are downloaded and viewed over the Internet; other countries might have different contexts :-) They are definitely high-res, and cannot (by law) be compressed (*), so each examination will require multiple 10-40 Mbyte images to be transferred. The discussion of the saving from Gig-Internet (versus "ultrafast Internet" - say 20 - 40 Mbit rates) was interesting. For a typical examination, download times are cut from 6-7 seconds to 1/2 second; and both image sizes and the number of images per examination are increasing constantly. Since a typical radiographer does 20,000 exams per year, this gives a time saving of one man-week per year - and hence easily justifies the cost of using / installing Gig-Internet. And the hard-to-quantify but definitely important saving is in decreasing the distraction or loss-of-focus from those small delays. So - this is all sounding good, and everyone should try to get a Gig Internet connection. As a Cisco shareholder, I like that idea :-) However, part of me knows that this is the wrong conclusion. "It's a software problem, Jim" It's well known that a radiographer will examine multiple sets of images per day or per hour - there's no reason why they shouldn't be pre-loaded or pre-cached on site, or even on the individual PC being used - or indeed directly within the app being used, so that they are *instantly* available. Very, very occasionally there might be a last-minute emergency scan to be examined - but the 99.999% case is predictable and cachable. So - if you are developing apps of any kind - think about whether or how or when you can predict users' needs and actions, and make full use of the new async features of Livecode Indy/Business to do this as needed :-) -- Alex. (*) they can be compressed - but they cannot be compressed with any lossy algorithm (e.g. JPG images). The original version of the laws said "cannot be compressed in any way"; it took a LONG time and lots of effort to convince US lawmakers that there was a difference between loss-free compression (e.g. ZIP, RLE encoding) and lossy compression (e.g. JPEG, MP3). From harrison at all-auctions.com Mon Aug 1 17:22:23 2016 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2016 17:22:23 -0400 Subject: looking for an alternative to KAGI, because KAGI ceased operations (: In-Reply-To: <9BD1715B-F3DF-4283-9889-C88550A9BEF1@m-r-d.de> References: <9BD1715B-F3DF-4283-9889-C88550A9BEF1@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <2D2CC8D5-DD53-431D-9458-D08C3BC5F229@all-auctions.com> Hi Matthias, I used to do a lot with Paypal. Do your calculations before you send your customer to Paypal. Then just tell Paypal what things to show. You can put in the VAT yourself as a preprocess thing. It should work fine. Just my 2 cents. I hope it helps! Rick > On Aug 1, 2016, at 4:11 PM, Matthias Rebbe wrote: > > > > > It seems i cannot use PayPal. > I am living in Germany and when selling to EU residents i have to charge the VAT rate of the buyers country. > Unfortunately Paypal just does the payment processing, but not invoicing and vat handling > Every month or every 3 months i have to do a VAT declaration for every EU country i sold my product to. > That is very time consuming. > Cleverbridge, Fastpring, Avangate and the others do the complete invoicing and Vat handling for the seller. That?s really comfortable. > > Matthias > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Mon Aug 1 17:50:23 2016 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2016 23:50:23 +0200 Subject: looking for an alternative to KAGI, because KAGI ceased operations (: In-Reply-To: <2D2CC8D5-DD53-431D-9458-D08C3BC5F229@all-auctions.com> References: <9BD1715B-F3DF-4283-9889-C88550A9BEF1@m-r-d.de> <2D2CC8D5-DD53-431D-9458-D08C3BC5F229@all-auctions.com> Message-ID: I know, Paypal is easy. I used it before 01.01.2015. But after that date the EU changed the rules how VAT has to be handled for digital products when sold within the EU. So the VAT declarations for every EU country i have to do every month is the problem. Using PayPal i am the seller of the product and therefore i am responsible for the VAT declarations. Every month / 3 months i have to declare how much VAT i have received from the customers for each of the EU countries i sold my software to. That means, even if i just sell only one license to a customer in France for example, i have to do same amount of paper work as if i have sold 20 licenses to 20 different customers in France. If i sell 5 licenses to 5 different EU countries, i have to do 5 declarations. And if i do not sell for example to a french customer one month, i still have to do the declaration for France. In this case with the information that i did not receive ?french? VAT that month. You can imagine how much work that is. I think i will give Fastspring or Avangate a try. Let?s see who of them answers my email questions faster? ;) Matthias > Am 01.08.2016 um 23:22 schrieb Rick Harrison >: > > Hi Matthias, > > I used to do a lot with Paypal. > Do your calculations before you send > your customer to Paypal. Then just > tell Paypal what things to show. You > can put in the VAT yourself as a > preprocess thing. It should work fine. > > Just my 2 cents. I hope it helps! > > Rick > From harrison at all-auctions.com Mon Aug 1 17:59:20 2016 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison) Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2016 17:59:20 -0400 Subject: looking for an alternative to KAGI, because KAGI ceased operations (: In-Reply-To: References: <9BD1715B-F3DF-4283-9889-C88550A9BEF1@m-r-d.de> <2D2CC8D5-DD53-431D-9458-D08C3BC5F229@all-auctions.com> Message-ID: Hi Matthias, Yes, I can certainly understand why one would want to avoid or offload that work if at all possible. Let us know what you find out with Fastspring or Avangate! Thanks, Rick > On Aug 1, 2016, at 5:50 PM, Matthias Rebbe wrote: > > I know, Paypal is easy. I used it before 01.01.2015. But after that date the EU changed the rules how VAT has to be handled for digital products when sold within the EU. > So the VAT declarations for every EU country i have to do every month is the problem. Using PayPal i am the seller of the product and therefore i am responsible for the VAT declarations. > > Every month / 3 months i have to declare how much VAT i have received from the customers for each of the EU countries i sold my software to. > That means, even if i just sell only one license to a customer in France for example, i have to do same amount of paper work as if i have sold 20 licenses to 20 different customers in France. > If i sell 5 licenses to 5 different EU countries, i have to do 5 declarations. > And if i do not sell for example to a french customer one month, i still have to do the declaration for France. In this case with the information that i did not receive ?french? VAT that month. > > You can imagine how much work that is. > > I think i will give Fastspring or Avangate a try. Let?s see who of them answers my email questions faster? ;) > > > Matthias From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Mon Aug 1 18:38:59 2016 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 06:38:59 +0800 Subject: OT: Need better hardware vs need better software. In-Reply-To: <0d0b70b4-903f-980d-382c-b5f1d9876afa@tweedly.net> References: <0d0b70b4-903f-980d-382c-b5f1d9876afa@tweedly.net> Message-ID: On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 5:10 AM, Alex Tweedly wrote: > Very, very occasionally there might be a last-minute emergency scan to be > examined - but the 99.999% case is predictable and cachable. > > So - if you are developing apps of any kind - think about whether or how or > when you can predict users' needs and actions, and make full use of the new > async features of Livecode Indy/Business to do this as needed :-) > I like your thinking. Another advantage of smart cacheing/storing is the ability to work 'offline'. The trend is for 'apps in the cloud' but I hate apps that 'must be' connected to the internet to function. I can access my email account and this List via a web browser, but as soon as I loose internet connection it's all gone. My email client though downloads everything when it can and I can easily read emails offline, and even draft replies. As soon as I'm reconnected to the internet off they go. Yes, I like smarter software. From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Mon Aug 1 19:44:43 2016 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 07:44:43 +0800 Subject: The Joy of Removing Features. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Enjoyed Part 1, looking forward to Part 2. Just wondering though, because of your discovery of the enjoyment of feature removal, will your 4 Parts only be coming in 3 ;-) From sims at ezpzapps.com Mon Aug 1 21:59:07 2016 From: sims at ezpzapps.com (Jim sims) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 02:59:07 +0100 Subject: OT: Need better hardware vs need better software. In-Reply-To: <0d0b70b4-903f-980d-382c-b5f1d9876afa@tweedly.net> References: <0d0b70b4-903f-980d-382c-b5f1d9876afa@tweedly.net> Message-ID: But if they just work smarter with what they have the POLITICIAN cannot boast: "I'm getting the latest and greatest stuff for you, planning ahead for you, and new business will want to come HERE instead of THERE!! Our PIPE is gonna be a big pipe, ten times bigger pipe than our neighbors dinky little pipe. It will be a huge pipe!! Guess who will pay for that big new pipe? THEY will pay to build it! While your explanation about compression and timing makes sense to most people on this list, BIG pipe is an easier and sexier sell for the politician. Explain and tout big pipe vs image compression and smarter utilization of we have. Which is better and easier for a Politician to understand and explain - to sell. Maybe it's a Human, Political Problem Jim! Just say'n sims -- On Monday, August 1, 2016, Alex Tweedly wrote: > I recently listened to an episode of BBC Radio 4's "Peter Day's World of > Business" (A podcast series I highly recommend), about Chattanooga > > http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03wxx6w > > Chattanooga is a US city which used to be very much a heavy industry and > transport city, and has suffered job losses and economic hard times; it has > a (not unusual for the US) public (i.e. city-owned) utility company, which > has recently installed Gigabit Fibre Internet throughout the city. > > One of the items on the program discussed the benefits of Gig Internet (as > in "is it actually important ?"). The example given was a radiographer's > office; each radiographer needs to download and examine multiple high-res > images. Because it's the US, these are typically NOT in-house or on-campus > downloads, they are from separate businesses (hospitals, clinics, ...) and > hence they are downloaded and viewed over the Internet; other countries > might have different contexts :-) They are definitely high-res, and cannot > (by law) be compressed (*), so each examination will require multiple 10-40 > Mbyte images to be transferred. > > The discussion of the saving from Gig-Internet (versus "ultrafast > Internet" - say 20 - 40 Mbit rates) was interesting. For a typical > examination, download times are cut from 6-7 seconds to 1/2 second; and > both image sizes and the number of images per examination are increasing > constantly. > > Since a typical radiographer does 20,000 exams per year, this gives a time > saving of one man-week per year - and hence easily justifies the cost of > using / installing Gig-Internet. And the hard-to-quantify but definitely > important saving is in decreasing the distraction or loss-of-focus from > those small delays. > > > So - this is all sounding good, and everyone should try to get a Gig > Internet connection. As a Cisco shareholder, I like that idea :-) > > However, part of me knows that this is the wrong conclusion. "It's a > software problem, Jim" > > It's well known that a radiographer will examine multiple sets of images > per day or per hour - there's no reason why they shouldn't be pre-loaded > or pre-cached on site, or even on the individual PC being used - or indeed > directly within the app being used, so that they are *instantly* available. > Very, very occasionally there might be a last-minute emergency scan to be > examined - but the 99.999% case is predictable and cachable. > > So - if you are developing apps of any kind - think about whether or how > or when you can predict users' needs and actions, and make full use of the > new async features of Livecode Indy/Business to do this as needed :-) > > -- Alex. > > (*) they can be compressed - but they cannot be compressed with any lossy > algorithm (e.g. JPG images). The original version of the laws said "cannot > be compressed in any way"; it took a LONG time and lots of effort to > convince US lawmakers that there was a difference between loss-free > compression (e.g. ZIP, RLE encoding) and lossy compression (e.g. JPEG, MP3). > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Sent from my iPodo - it makes weird spelling sometimes :-P From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Mon Aug 1 23:21:20 2016 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 11:21:20 +0800 Subject: OT: Need better hardware vs need better software. In-Reply-To: References: <0d0b70b4-903f-980d-382c-b5f1d9876afa@tweedly.net> Message-ID: On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 9:59 AM, Jim sims wrote: >BIG pipe is an easier and sexier sell for the > politician. > Unless you are Indian (from India, not American) Years ago I had a job in Bombay (back when it was Bombay not Mumbai) and each day as I travelled to and from the site I passed a massive drainage project. Basically the project had started somewhere in the countryside and involved a line of 12ft diameter x 20ft long prefabricated concrete pipes. About 10 of these pipes lay on the side of a hole that was being dug. As the hole was readied a concrete pipe was rolled in, and a new concrete pipe was delivered to the font of the line of pipes laying topside. And so the snake of 10 topside pipes slowly made it's way from the start of the project to the end, a facility in downtown Bombay. The week I was in Bombay this was a massive political storm. The reason; the BIG pipe provided excellent shelter and so quickly became the home of about 20 people. The entire snake of pipes housed about 200 homeless. As each pipe was rolled into the hole the inhabitants would vacant and move into the newly arrived pipe. But this wasn't the cause of the outcry, no the cause of the outcry was the lack of foresight; you see a 'smart' person would have started the project in Bombay and finished up in the countryside, thereby moving 200 odd homeless people out of the City and into the countryside rather than the other way around! From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Tue Aug 2 02:02:38 2016 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 09:02:38 +0300 Subject: OT: Need better hardware vs need better software. In-Reply-To: References: <0d0b70b4-903f-980d-382c-b5f1d9876afa@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <4794b122-ceb4-90e0-4fe9-e654837ee378@gmail.com> Inevitably: It's not the size that matters, it's how you use it. Richmond. On 2.08.2016 04:59, Jim sims wrote: > But if they just work smarter with what they have the POLITICIAN cannot > boast: "I'm getting the latest and greatest stuff for you, planning ahead > for you, and new business will want to come HERE instead of THERE!! > > Our PIPE is gonna be a big pipe, ten times bigger pipe than our neighbors > dinky little pipe. It will be a huge pipe!! Guess who will pay for that big > new pipe? THEY will pay to build it! > > While your explanation about compression and timing makes sense to most > people on this list, BIG pipe is an easier and sexier sell for the > politician. > > Explain and tout big pipe vs image compression and smarter utilization of > we have. Which is better and easier for a Politician to understand and > explain - to sell. > > Maybe it's a Human, Political Problem Jim! > > Just say'n > > sims > > -- > > On Monday, August 1, 2016, Alex Tweedly wrote: > >> I recently listened to an episode of BBC Radio 4's "Peter Day's World of >> Business" (A podcast series I highly recommend), about Chattanooga >> >> http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03wxx6w >> >> Chattanooga is a US city which used to be very much a heavy industry and >> transport city, and has suffered job losses and economic hard times; it has >> a (not unusual for the US) public (i.e. city-owned) utility company, which >> has recently installed Gigabit Fibre Internet throughout the city. >> >> One of the items on the program discussed the benefits of Gig Internet (as >> in "is it actually important ?"). The example given was a radiographer's >> office; each radiographer needs to download and examine multiple high-res >> images. Because it's the US, these are typically NOT in-house or on-campus >> downloads, they are from separate businesses (hospitals, clinics, ...) and >> hence they are downloaded and viewed over the Internet; other countries >> might have different contexts :-) They are definitely high-res, and cannot >> (by law) be compressed (*), so each examination will require multiple 10-40 >> Mbyte images to be transferred. >> >> The discussion of the saving from Gig-Internet (versus "ultrafast >> Internet" - say 20 - 40 Mbit rates) was interesting. For a typical >> examination, download times are cut from 6-7 seconds to 1/2 second; and >> both image sizes and the number of images per examination are increasing >> constantly. >> >> Since a typical radiographer does 20,000 exams per year, this gives a time >> saving of one man-week per year - and hence easily justifies the cost of >> using / installing Gig-Internet. And the hard-to-quantify but definitely >> important saving is in decreasing the distraction or loss-of-focus from >> those small delays. >> >> >> So - this is all sounding good, and everyone should try to get a Gig >> Internet connection. As a Cisco shareholder, I like that idea :-) >> >> However, part of me knows that this is the wrong conclusion. "It's a >> software problem, Jim" >> >> It's well known that a radiographer will examine multiple sets of images >> per day or per hour - there's no reason why they shouldn't be pre-loaded >> or pre-cached on site, or even on the individual PC being used - or indeed >> directly within the app being used, so that they are *instantly* available. >> Very, very occasionally there might be a last-minute emergency scan to be >> examined - but the 99.999% case is predictable and cachable. >> >> So - if you are developing apps of any kind - think about whether or how >> or when you can predict users' needs and actions, and make full use of the >> new async features of Livecode Indy/Business to do this as needed :-) >> >> -- Alex. >> >> (*) they can be compressed - but they cannot be compressed with any lossy >> algorithm (e.g. JPG images). The original version of the laws said "cannot >> be compressed in any way"; it took a LONG time and lots of effort to >> convince US lawmakers that there was a difference between loss-free >> compression (e.g. ZIP, RLE encoding) and lossy compression (e.g. JPEG, MP3). >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Tue Aug 2 02:53:59 2016 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (mwieder at ahsoftware.net) Date: Tue, 02 Aug 2016 02:53:59 -0400 Subject: OT: Need better hardware vs need better software. In-Reply-To: <4794b122-ceb4-90e0-4fe9-e654837ee378@gmail.com> References: <0d0b70b4-903f-980d-382c-b5f1d9876afa@tweedly.net> <4794b122-ceb4-90e0-4fe9-e654837ee378@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20160802025359.Horde.EJP7Cxd6ynk0apNVKMam4nQ@diesel.on-rev.com> Quoting Richmond : > Inevitably: > > It's not the size that matters, it's how you use it. > > Richmond. Thanks. I knew I could count on you. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Tue Aug 2 03:23:54 2016 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 10:23:54 +0300 Subject: OT: Need better hardware vs need better software. In-Reply-To: <20160802025359.Horde.EJP7Cxd6ynk0apNVKMam4nQ@diesel.on-rev.com> References: <0d0b70b4-903f-980d-382c-b5f1d9876afa@tweedly.net> <4794b122-ceb4-90e0-4fe9-e654837ee378@gmail.com> <20160802025359.Horde.EJP7Cxd6ynk0apNVKMam4nQ@diesel.on-rev.com> Message-ID: Somewhere deep inside one of my backup disks I have a feeling there is a version of RunRev/LC for DOS . . . . There's certainly a version of Metacard. It might be "fun" to take it/them for a trot with FreeDOS. R. On 2.08.2016 09:53, mwieder at ahsoftware.net wrote: > > Quoting Richmond : > >> Inevitably: >> >> It's not the size that matters, it's how you use it. >> >> Richmond. > > Thanks. > I knew I could count on you. > From admin at FlexibleLearning.com Tue Aug 2 04:07:54 2016 From: admin at FlexibleLearning.com (FlexibleLearning.com) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 09:07:54 +0100 Subject: looking for an alternative to KAGI, because KAGI ceased operations Message-ID: <000c01d1ec94$f9caafa0$ed600ee0$@FlexibleLearning.com> EU VAT is only due on AUTOMATED transactions. Communicating by email and attachments does NOT constitute "Digital Services"... https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/41 5931/VAT_MOSS_Flow_chart_FSB_edit_V1_0.pdf If your product requires a key (i.e. they are buying a key to the software) and you take the time to send your customer a personal email with the key, my understanding is this is a MANUAL transaction and so falls outside the scope of the legislation. If the key is issued automatically, then it does fall in the scope of the legislation. This is my understanding of this mess. I am not a lawyer and you should make up your own mind whether you are affected or not. Hugh Senior FLCo Matthias Rebbe wrote: > I know, Paypal is easy. I used it before 01.01.2015. But after that date the EU > changed the rules how VAT has to be handled for digital products when sold > within the EU. > So the VAT declarations for every EU country i have to do every month is the > problem. Using PayPal i am the seller of the product and therefore i am > responsible for the VAT declarations. > > Every month / 3 months i have to declare how much VAT i have received > from the customers for each of the EU countries i sold my software to. > That means, even if i just sell only one license to a customer in France for > example, i have to do same amount of paper work as if i have sold 20 > licenses to 20 different customers in France. > If i sell 5 licenses to 5 different EU countries, i have to do 5 declarations. > And if i do not sell for example to a french customer one month, i still have > to do the declaration for France. In this case with the information that i did > not receive ?french? VAT that month. > > You can imagine how much work that is. > > I think i will give Fastspring or Avangate a try. Let?s see who of them answers > my email questions faster? ;) > > > Matthias From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Tue Aug 2 04:59:09 2016 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 10:59:09 +0200 Subject: looking for an alternative to KAGI, because KAGI ceased operations In-Reply-To: <000c01d1ec94$f9caafa0$ed600ee0$@FlexibleLearning.com> References: <000c01d1ec94$f9caafa0$ed600ee0$@FlexibleLearning.com> Message-ID: <03E4D5EB-568B-405F-A153-DAF453BC1625@m-r-d.de> Thanks Hugh, i had the same impression, but my tax consultant recommend to go the save and easy way and use a seller platform. So i set up an account with Fastspring this morning. At the moment i am building a web service around the my license generator. Seems not to be very complicated. Btw.: If someone is looking for a keygen solution for LiveCode then have a look at Zygodact http://hyperactivesw.com/solutions_zygodact.html . I can?t say it often enough: It?s really an awesome and timesaving solution. Matthias Matthias Rebbe Bramkampsieke 13 32312 L?bbecke Tel +49 5741 310000 +49 160 5504462 Fax: +49 5741 310002 eMail: matthias at m-r-d.de BR5 Konverter - BR5 -> MP3 > Am 02.08.2016 um 10:07 schrieb FlexibleLearning.com : > > EU VAT is only due on AUTOMATED transactions. Communicating by email and > attachments does NOT constitute "Digital Services"... > > https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/41 > 5931/VAT_MOSS_Flow_chart_FSB_edit_V1_0.pdf > > If your product requires a key (i.e. they are buying a key to the software) > and you take the time to send your customer a personal email with the key, > my understanding is this is a MANUAL transaction and so falls outside the > scope of the legislation. If the key is issued automatically, then it does > fall in the scope of the legislation. > > This is my understanding of this mess. I am not a lawyer and you should make > up your own mind whether you are affected or not. > > Hugh Senior > FLCo > > Matthias Rebbe wrote: > >> I know, Paypal is easy. I used it before 01.01.2015. But after that date > the EU >> changed the rules how VAT has to be handled for digital products when sold >> within the EU. >> So the VAT declarations for every EU country i have to do every month is > the >> problem. Using PayPal i am the seller of the product and therefore i am >> responsible for the VAT declarations. >> >> Every month / 3 months i have to declare how much VAT i have received >> from the customers for each of the EU countries i sold my software to. >> That means, even if i just sell only one license to a customer in France > for >> example, i have to do same amount of paper work as if i have sold 20 >> licenses to 20 different customers in France. >> If i sell 5 licenses to 5 different EU countries, i have to do 5 > declarations. >> And if i do not sell for example to a french customer one month, i still > have >> to do the declaration for France. In this case with the information that i > did >> not receive ?french? VAT that month. >> >> You can imagine how much work that is. >> >> I think i will give Fastspring or Avangate a try. Let?s see who of them > answers >> my email questions faster? ;) >> >> >> Matthias > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From alex at tweedly.org Tue Aug 2 06:21:05 2016 From: alex at tweedly.org (Alex Tweedly) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 11:21:05 +0100 Subject: The Joy of Removing Features. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Good idea. I *almost* called it "Part 1 of a 4-part trilogy", just because all trilogies need at least one sequel, or prequel, but maybe it would be better to leave out the boring bits and make it simply 3 parts :-) On 02/08/2016 00:44, Kay C Lan wrote: > Enjoyed Part 1, looking forward to Part 2. Just wondering though, > because of your discovery of the enjoyment of feature removal, will > your 4 Parts only be coming in 3 ;-) > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From livfoss at mac.com Tue Aug 2 06:32:09 2016 From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel) Date: Tue, 02 Aug 2016 11:32:09 +0100 Subject: looking for an alternative to KAGI, because KAGI ceased operations In-Reply-To: <03E4D5EB-568B-405F-A153-DAF453BC1625@m-r-d.de> References: <000c01d1ec94$f9caafa0$ed600ee0$@FlexibleLearning.com> <03E4D5EB-568B-405F-A153-DAF453BC1625@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: Matthias, are you planning to use Zygodact with the Fastspring platform? Is this possible? I?ve literally just started exploring this area, so I?d appreciate any pointers. Graham > On 2 Aug 2016, at 09:59, Matthias Rebbe wrote: > > Thanks Hugh, > > i had the same impression, but my tax consultant recommend to go the save and easy way and use a seller platform. > > So i set up an account with Fastspring this morning. At the moment i am building a web service around the my license generator. > Seems not to be very complicated. > > Btw.: If someone is looking for a keygen solution for LiveCode then have a look at Zygodact > http://hyperactivesw.com/solutions_zygodact.html . > > I can?t say it often enough: It?s really an awesome and timesaving solution. > > Matthias > > > > > Matthias Rebbe > Bramkampsieke 13 > 32312 L?bbecke > Tel +49 5741 310000 > +49 160 5504462 > Fax: +49 5741 310002 > eMail: matthias at m-r-d.de > > BR5 Konverter - BR5 -> MP3 >> Am 02.08.2016 um 10:07 schrieb FlexibleLearning.com : >> >> EU VAT is only due on AUTOMATED transactions. Communicating by email and >> attachments does NOT constitute "Digital Services"... >> >> https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/41 >> 5931/VAT_MOSS_Flow_chart_FSB_edit_V1_0.pdf >> >> If your product requires a key (i.e. they are buying a key to the software) >> and you take the time to send your customer a personal email with the key, >> my understanding is this is a MANUAL transaction and so falls outside the >> scope of the legislation. If the key is issued automatically, then it does >> fall in the scope of the legislation. >> >> This is my understanding of this mess. I am not a lawyer and you should make >> up your own mind whether you are affected or not. >> >> Hugh Senior >> FLCo >> >> Matthias Rebbe wrote: >> >>> I know, Paypal is easy. I used it before 01.01.2015. But after that date >> the EU >>> changed the rules how VAT has to be handled for digital products when sold >>> within the EU. >>> So the VAT declarations for every EU country i have to do every month is >> the >>> problem. Using PayPal i am the seller of the product and therefore i am >>> responsible for the VAT declarations. >>> >>> Every month / 3 months i have to declare how much VAT i have received >>> from the customers for each of the EU countries i sold my software to. >>> That means, even if i just sell only one license to a customer in France >> for >>> example, i have to do same amount of paper work as if i have sold 20 >>> licenses to 20 different customers in France. >>> If i sell 5 licenses to 5 different EU countries, i have to do 5 >> declarations. >>> And if i do not sell for example to a french customer one month, i still >> have >>> to do the declaration for France. In this case with the information that i >> did >>> not receive ?french? VAT that month. >>> >>> You can imagine how much work that is. >>> >>> I think i will give Fastspring or Avangate a try. Let?s see who of them >> answers >>> my email questions faster? ;) >>> >>> >>> Matthias >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Tue Aug 2 06:48:14 2016 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 12:48:14 +0200 Subject: looking for an alternative to KAGI, because KAGI ceased operations In-Reply-To: <000c01d1ec94$f9caafa0$ed600ee0$@FlexibleLearning.com> References: <000c01d1ec94$f9caafa0$ed600ee0$@FlexibleLearning.com> Message-ID: <6808f246-0729-abbb-17bd-c2526e1c8535@economy-x-talk.com> Always the same misunderstandings about taxes. The new VAT rules don't apply to most people on this list, because they don't sell enough. If your tax consultant say "play safe" then make sure to change tax consultant as soon as possible. Clearly, s/he is unaware of the rules. Kind regards, Mark Schonewille http://economy-x-talk.com https://www.facebook.com/marksch Buy the most extensive book on the LiveCode language: http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com Op 02-Aug-16 om 10:07 schreef FlexibleLearning.com: > EU VAT is only due on AUTOMATED transactions. Communicating by email and > attachments does NOT constitute "Digital Services"... > > https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/41 > 5931/VAT_MOSS_Flow_chart_FSB_edit_V1_0.pdf > > If your product requires a key (i.e. they are buying a key to the software) > and you take the time to send your customer a personal email with the key, > my understanding is this is a MANUAL transaction and so falls outside the > scope of the legislation. If the key is issued automatically, then it does > fall in the scope of the legislation. > > This is my understanding of this mess. I am not a lawyer and you should make > up your own mind whether you are affected or not. > > Hugh Senior > FLCo > > Matthias Rebbe wrote: > >> I know, Paypal is easy. I used it before 01.01.2015. But after that date > the EU >> changed the rules how VAT has to be handled for digital products when sold >> within the EU. >> So the VAT declarations for every EU country i have to do every month is > the >> problem. Using PayPal i am the seller of the product and therefore i am >> responsible for the VAT declarations. >> >> Every month / 3 months i have to declare how much VAT i have received >> from the customers for each of the EU countries i sold my software to. >> That means, even if i just sell only one license to a customer in France > for >> example, i have to do same amount of paper work as if i have sold 20 >> licenses to 20 different customers in France. >> If i sell 5 licenses to 5 different EU countries, i have to do 5 > declarations. >> And if i do not sell for example to a french customer one month, i still > have >> to do the declaration for France. In this case with the information that i > did >> not receive ?french? VAT that month. >> >> You can imagine how much work that is. >> >> I think i will give Fastspring or Avangate a try. Let?s see who of them > answers >> my email questions faster? ;) >> >> >> Matthias > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From charles at techstrategies.com.au Tue Aug 2 06:50:40 2016 From: charles at techstrategies.com.au (Charles Warwick) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 20:50:40 +1000 Subject: [ ANN ] Release 8.1.0 DP-3 In-Reply-To: <24E6D8A0-D20D-4366-8CF8-F709063FEB3B@hindu.org> References: <6AE03CAD-CB4C-4C58-AB3D-43CE4C9BD24B@hindu.org> <1f24dfda-bf58-e2fe-eb17-71f8b897a700@techstrategies.com.au> <7f0c3880-b212-0eae-db5d-9c7a98a3c217@techstrategies.com.au> <76946d18-c30a-4520-be2d-0f31fb2753e5@techstrategies.com.au> <3ea40b5f-0fd9-1909-4617-7a230429e040@hyperactivesw.com> <24E6D8A0-D20D-4366-8CF8-F709063FEB3B@hindu.org> Message-ID: On 2/08/2016 4:10 am, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote: > @Charles: > > So, in effect, just to clarify my understanding? > > the *only* difference between the TSnet indy and business license is that the indy user has the added burden of coding explicit tsNet commands to get the same asynchronous behavior that the business user can get with simple calls that were formerly blocking. But otherwise, the exact same asychronous task(s) can be accomplished with either license. > > Correct? > Indy license users do not get async support for requests made using the SFTP or SMTP(S) protocols regardless of the command being used. For all other protocols they can perform non-blocking/async requests. To clarify the case for business users though, the standard blocking calls like "post x to url x" remain blocking in the sense that the call does not return until it has completed. It just doesn't block other network requests from being issued concurrently from other handlers. Even in business, if you want to fire off (for example) a series of HTTP POST requests from within the same handler without waiting for any of them to complete, you would still need to use the tsNet async commands. Regardless of the version, tsNet offloads all network requests to another thread so using it in any fashion should improve the general performance of the Livecode application while network transfers are taking place (animations, responsiveness of the UI to other messages, etc..). Regards, Charles From charles at techstrategies.com.au Tue Aug 2 06:51:28 2016 From: charles at techstrategies.com.au (Charles Warwick) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 20:51:28 +1000 Subject: [ ANN ] Release 8.1.0 DP-3 In-Reply-To: <53141730-bd2b-3e5b-5760-668e86be35a6@hyperactivesw.com> References: <6AE03CAD-CB4C-4C58-AB3D-43CE4C9BD24B@hindu.org> <1f24dfda-bf58-e2fe-eb17-71f8b897a700@techstrategies.com.au> <7f0c3880-b212-0eae-db5d-9c7a98a3c217@techstrategies.com.au> <76946d18-c30a-4520-be2d-0f31fb2753e5@techstrategies.com.au> <53141730-bd2b-3e5b-5760-668e86be35a6@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <9e05cee0-e380-4900-f0a3-6eb1dff2deb4@techstrategies.com.au> On 2/08/2016 5:25 am, J. Landman Gay wrote: > On 8/1/2016 12:41 AM, Charles Warwick wrote: >> You can issue post/get/put asynchronous commands even to the same server >> with the Indy license using tsNet commands directly > > Remind me, is "get url" blocking? > Yes :-) From charles at techstrategies.com.au Tue Aug 2 06:54:35 2016 From: charles at techstrategies.com.au (Charles Warwick) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 20:54:35 +1000 Subject: libURL and New TsNet Commands/Failures In-Reply-To: <8B789BE2-95F9-4B2D-A43B-15D826EE556A@hindu.org> References: <2F05D262-D84A-43C9-BCB5-A59B78FE2529@hindu.org> <60d136d5-3b37-6d7a-0433-cc311b8e8748@hyperactivesw.com> <4e1ac89e-dcfa-fd55-cbb6-3498699c3611@techstrategies.com.au> <286EC965-A7D1-412E-ADEE-66785469CC0D@hindu.org> <1348E389-0B46-46C0-9DDC-9FA40F474B55@hindu.org> <8B789BE2-95F9-4B2D-A43B-15D826EE556A@hindu.org> Message-ID: <8da9152f-3cb8-f8a0-0e87-19972e12944b@techstrategies.com.au> On 2/08/2016 5:48 am, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote: > OK since > > a) "libURLftpUploadFile" has no hook to/support from, tsNet for schema "sftp://" > > AND > > b) I hit the "no business license" wall on attempt to use "tsNetUploadFileSync" Ah, yes. Sorry, I have forgotten that detail and it was not mentioned in the DP3 release announcement. For Indy users, SFTP and SMTP(S) protocols do not support "file-backed" requests. Regards, Charles From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Tue Aug 2 08:11:14 2016 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 15:11:14 +0300 Subject: The Joy of Removing Features. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The ghost of Douglas Adams is not that far away. Ouch; wait a minute; Douglas Adams was an atheist: that makes things even more confusing: Douglas Adams stated there wasn't a God and there wasn't a metaphysical world; but the ghost of Douglas Adams is hovering over this e-mail message: but, then, God wouldn't be so nice as to provide proof he/she/it exists, therefore the presence of a ghost proves that God does not exist + because a ghost is metaphysical, and a metaphysical world is a manifestation of God, there is no metaphysical world. To which the best thing is probably to state: "Shivo Ham" or "Aham Brahmasmi" and keep shtum. Or, as somebody might have said: it's a mystery wrapt in an enigma wrapt in a Chinese fortune cookie. Richmond. over this e-mail message On 2.08.2016 13:21, Alex Tweedly wrote: > Good idea. > I *almost* called it "Part 1 of a 4-part trilogy", just because all > trilogies need at least one sequel, or prequel, but maybe it would be > better to leave out the boring bits and make it simply 3 parts :-) > > > > On 02/08/2016 00:44, Kay C Lan wrote: >> Enjoyed Part 1, looking forward to Part 2. Just wondering though, >> because of your discovery of the enjoyment of feature removal, will >> your 4 Parts only be coming in 3 ;-) >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Tue Aug 2 08:17:21 2016 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 14:17:21 +0200 Subject: looking for an alternative to KAGI, because KAGI ceased operations In-Reply-To: <6808f246-0729-abbb-17bd-c2526e1c8535@economy-x-talk.com> References: <000c01d1ec94$f9caafa0$ed600ee0$@FlexibleLearning.com> <6808f246-0729-abbb-17bd-c2526e1c8535@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: Mark, thanks for chiming in. > Am 02.08.2016 um 12:48 schrieb Mark Schonewille : > > Always the same misunderstandings about taxes. The new VAT rules don't apply to most people on this list, because they don't sell enough. Sorry, i have to disagree. If your company is liable to tax on sales/purchases then you have to do VAT declarations, even if you just sell a digital product for 1 Euro. You can decide if you do the declarations with each EU country separately or if you do the declaration using MOSS. There is no lower sales limit which would allow to ignore this EU rule. Before i wrote the above lines i phoned the German Federal Central Tax Office and spoke to someone who is responsible for the MOSS. He assured me that there is no such limit. But he was aware that there is a widespread opinion out there that there is such a limit, but there isn?t. If you have other official informations especially about the sales limit, then I am more than happy to see them. Regards, Matthias > If your tax consultant say "play safe" then make sure to change tax consultant as soon as possible. Clearly, s/he is unaware of the rules. > > Kind regards, > > Mark Schonewille > http://economy-x-talk.com > https://www.facebook.com/marksch > > Buy the most extensive book on the > LiveCode language: > http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com > > Op 02-Aug-16 om 10:07 schreef FlexibleLearning.com: >> EU VAT is only due on AUTOMATED transactions. Communicating by email and >> attachments does NOT constitute "Digital Services"... >> >> https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/41 >> 5931/VAT_MOSS_Flow_chart_FSB_edit_V1_0.pdf >> >> If your product requires a key (i.e. they are buying a key to the software) >> and you take the time to send your customer a personal email with the key, >> my understanding is this is a MANUAL transaction and so falls outside the >> scope of the legislation. If the key is issued automatically, then it does >> fall in the scope of the legislation. >> >> This is my understanding of this mess. I am not a lawyer and you should make >> up your own mind whether you are affected or not. >> >> Hugh Senior >> FLCo >> >> Matthias Rebbe wrote: >> >>> I know, Paypal is easy. I used it before 01.01.2015. But after that date >> the EU >>> changed the rules how VAT has to be handled for digital products when sold >>> within the EU. >>> So the VAT declarations for every EU country i have to do every month is >> the >>> problem. Using PayPal i am the seller of the product and therefore i am >>> responsible for the VAT declarations. >>> >>> Every month / 3 months i have to declare how much VAT i have received >>> from the customers for each of the EU countries i sold my software to. >>> That means, even if i just sell only one license to a customer in France >> for >>> example, i have to do same amount of paper work as if i have sold 20 >>> licenses to 20 different customers in France. >>> If i sell 5 licenses to 5 different EU countries, i have to do 5 >> declarations. >>> And if i do not sell for example to a french customer one month, i still >> have >>> to do the declaration for France. In this case with the information that i >> did >>> not receive ?french? VAT that month. >>> >>> You can imagine how much work that is. >>> >>> I think i will give Fastspring or Avangate a try. Let?s see who of them >> answers >>> my email questions faster? ;) >>> >>> >>> Matthias >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Tue Aug 2 08:30:15 2016 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 14:30:15 +0200 Subject: looking for an alternative to KAGI, because KAGI ceased operations In-Reply-To: References: <000c01d1ec94$f9caafa0$ed600ee0$@FlexibleLearning.com> <03E4D5EB-568B-405F-A153-DAF453BC1625@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <9BBF0638-7DF7-4430-9C23-0505EC737B56@m-r-d.de> > Am 02.08.2016 um 12:32 schrieb Graham Samuel >: > > Matthias, are you planning to use Zygodact with the Fastspring platform? Is this possible? I?ve literally just started exploring this area, so I?d appreciate any pointers. > Yes and yes. I have already setup a basic lc script for use with the Zygodact generator stack ?gen.rev? and Fastspring. And the test orders run through w/o problems. I will add some DB stuff to it, to store the orders in my own DB also. What i can say so far is: You definitely do need a commercial version of LC server, because the gen.rev stack Zygodact produces is password protected and LC Server Community Edition is not able to work with password protected stacks. I will create a pdf with intstructions for Zygodact/Fastspring with sample scripts like the PDF i created for Zygodact/KAGI. The sample script will allow you to use it right away. You will just have to change one value in that script. It?s a private key which is provided by Fastspring. But give me 2-3 days, okay? Regards, Matthias > Graham > >> On 2 Aug 2016, at 09:59, Matthias Rebbe > wrote: >> >> Thanks Hugh, >> >> i had the same impression, but my tax consultant recommend to go the save and easy way and use a seller platform. >> >> So i set up an account with Fastspring this morning. At the moment i am building a web service around the my license generator. >> Seems not to be very complicated. >> >> Btw.: If someone is looking for a keygen solution for LiveCode then have a look at Zygodact >> http://hyperactivesw.com/solutions_zygodact.html >. >> >> I can?t say it often enough: It?s really an awesome and timesaving solution. >> >> Matthias >> >> >> >> >> Matthias Rebbe >> Bramkampsieke 13 >> 32312 L?bbecke >> Tel +49 5741 310000 >> +49 160 5504462 >> Fax: +49 5741 310002 >> eMail: matthias at m-r-d.de > >> >> BR5 Konverter - BR5 -> MP3 > >>> Am 02.08.2016 um 10:07 schrieb FlexibleLearning.com >: >>> >>> EU VAT is only due on AUTOMATED transactions. Communicating by email and >>> attachments does NOT constitute "Digital Services"... >>> >>> https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/41 >>> 5931/VAT_MOSS_Flow_chart_FSB_edit_V1_0.pdf >>> >>> If your product requires a key (i.e. they are buying a key to the software) >>> and you take the time to send your customer a personal email with the key, >>> my understanding is this is a MANUAL transaction and so falls outside the >>> scope of the legislation. If the key is issued automatically, then it does >>> fall in the scope of the legislation. >>> >>> This is my understanding of this mess. I am not a lawyer and you should make >>> up your own mind whether you are affected or not. >>> >>> Hugh Senior >>> FLCo >>> >>> Matthias Rebbe wrote: >>> >>>> I know, Paypal is easy. I used it before 01.01.2015. But after that date >>> the EU >>>> changed the rules how VAT has to be handled for digital products when sold >>>> within the EU. >>>> So the VAT declarations for every EU country i have to do every month is >>> the >>>> problem. Using PayPal i am the seller of the product and therefore i am >>>> responsible for the VAT declarations. >>>> >>>> Every month / 3 months i have to declare how much VAT i have received >>>> from the customers for each of the EU countries i sold my software to. >>>> That means, even if i just sell only one license to a customer in France >>> for >>>> example, i have to do same amount of paper work as if i have sold 20 >>>> licenses to 20 different customers in France. >>>> If i sell 5 licenses to 5 different EU countries, i have to do 5 >>> declarations. >>>> And if i do not sell for example to a french customer one month, i still >>> have >>>> to do the declaration for France. In this case with the information that i >>> did >>>> not receive ?french? VAT that month. >>>> >>>> You can imagine how much work that is. >>>> >>>> I think i will give Fastspring or Avangate a try. Let?s see who of them >>> answers >>>> my email questions faster? ;) >>>> >>>> >>>> Matthias >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode Matthias Rebbe Bramkampsieke 13 32312 L?bbecke Tel +49 5741 310000 +49 160 5504462 Fax: +49 5741 310002 eMail: matthias at m-r-d.de BR5 Konverter - BR5 -> MP3 From livfoss at mac.com Tue Aug 2 09:35:14 2016 From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel) Date: Tue, 02 Aug 2016 14:35:14 +0100 Subject: looking for an alternative to KAGI, because KAGI ceased operations In-Reply-To: <9BBF0638-7DF7-4430-9C23-0505EC737B56@m-r-d.de> References: <000c01d1ec94$f9caafa0$ed600ee0$@FlexibleLearning.com> <03E4D5EB-568B-405F-A153-DAF453BC1625@m-r-d.de> <9BBF0638-7DF7-4430-9C23-0505EC737B56@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: Wow! That?s great. Thanks Graham > On 2 Aug 2016, at 13:30, Matthias Rebbe wrote: > > > >> Am 02.08.2016 um 12:32 schrieb Graham Samuel >: >> >> Matthias, are you planning to use Zygodact with the Fastspring platform? Is this possible? I?ve literally just started exploring this area, so I?d appreciate any pointers. >> > Yes and yes. > I have already setup a basic lc script for use with the Zygodact generator stack ?gen.rev? and Fastspring. And the test orders run through w/o problems. > I will add some DB stuff to it, to store the orders in my own DB also. > > What i can say so far is: You definitely do need a commercial version of LC server, because the gen.rev stack Zygodact produces is password protected and LC Server Community Edition is not able to work with > password protected stacks. > > I will create a pdf with intstructions for Zygodact/Fastspring with sample scripts like the PDF i created for Zygodact/KAGI. > The sample script will allow you to use it right away. You will just have to change one value in that script. It?s a private key which is provided by Fastspring. > > But give me 2-3 days, okay? > > Regards, > > Matthias > > > > > > > > >> Graham >> >>> On 2 Aug 2016, at 09:59, Matthias Rebbe > wrote: >>> >>> Thanks Hugh, >>> >>> i had the same impression, but my tax consultant recommend to go the save and easy way and use a seller platform. >>> >>> So i set up an account with Fastspring this morning. At the moment i am building a web service around the my license generator. >>> Seems not to be very complicated. >>> >>> Btw.: If someone is looking for a keygen solution for LiveCode then have a look at Zygodact >>> http://hyperactivesw.com/solutions_zygodact.html >. >>> >>> I can?t say it often enough: It?s really an awesome and timesaving solution. >>> >>> Matthias >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Matthias Rebbe >>> Bramkampsieke 13 >>> 32312 L?bbecke >>> Tel +49 5741 310000 >>> +49 160 5504462 >>> Fax: +49 5741 310002 >>> eMail: matthias at m-r-d.de > >>> >>> BR5 Konverter - BR5 -> MP3 > >>>> Am 02.08.2016 um 10:07 schrieb FlexibleLearning.com >: >>>> >>>> EU VAT is only due on AUTOMATED transactions. Communicating by email and >>>> attachments does NOT constitute "Digital Services"... >>>> >>>> https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/41 >>>> 5931/VAT_MOSS_Flow_chart_FSB_edit_V1_0.pdf >>>> >>>> If your product requires a key (i.e. they are buying a key to the software) >>>> and you take the time to send your customer a personal email with the key, >>>> my understanding is this is a MANUAL transaction and so falls outside the >>>> scope of the legislation. If the key is issued automatically, then it does >>>> fall in the scope of the legislation. >>>> >>>> This is my understanding of this mess. I am not a lawyer and you should make >>>> up your own mind whether you are affected or not. >>>> >>>> Hugh Senior >>>> FLCo >>>> >>>> Matthias Rebbe wrote: >>>> >>>>> I know, Paypal is easy. I used it before 01.01.2015. But after that date >>>> the EU >>>>> changed the rules how VAT has to be handled for digital products when sold >>>>> within the EU. >>>>> So the VAT declarations for every EU country i have to do every month is >>>> the >>>>> problem. Using PayPal i am the seller of the product and therefore i am >>>>> responsible for the VAT declarations. >>>>> >>>>> Every month / 3 months i have to declare how much VAT i have received >>>>> from the customers for each of the EU countries i sold my software to. >>>>> That means, even if i just sell only one license to a customer in France >>>> for >>>>> example, i have to do same amount of paper work as if i have sold 20 >>>>> licenses to 20 different customers in France. >>>>> If i sell 5 licenses to 5 different EU countries, i have to do 5 >>>> declarations. >>>>> And if i do not sell for example to a french customer one month, i still >>>> have >>>>> to do the declaration for France. In this case with the information that i >>>> did >>>>> not receive ?french? VAT that month. >>>>> >>>>> You can imagine how much work that is. >>>>> >>>>> I think i will give Fastspring or Avangate a try. Let?s see who of them >>>> answers >>>>> my email questions faster? ;) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Matthias >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > Matthias Rebbe > Bramkampsieke 13 > 32312 L?bbecke > Tel +49 5741 310000 > +49 160 5504462 > Fax: +49 5741 310002 > eMail: matthias at m-r-d.de > > BR5 Konverter - BR5 -> MP3 > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From prothero at earthednet.org Tue Aug 2 10:41:11 2016 From: prothero at earthednet.org (Earthednet-wp) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 07:41:11 -0700 Subject: looking for an alternative to KAGI, because KAGI ceased operations In-Reply-To: References: <000c01d1ec94$f9caafa0$ed600ee0$@FlexibleLearning.com> <03E4D5EB-568B-405F-A153-DAF453BC1625@m-r-d.de> <9BBF0638-7DF7-4430-9C23-0505EC737B56@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <00FE4F67-D05A-46E3-AA65-3A71D5A008F2@earthednet.org> Folks, I'm wondering if it wouldn't be easier to just set up a payment web page that you interact with in the browser widget. Then you could, for instance, for PayPal, just use their easy payment button to get paid. There would need to be https communication, probably with some kind of encrypted key for validation, probably. Just thinking. Best, Bill Bill William Prothero http://es.earthednet.org > On Aug 2, 2016, at 6:35 AM, Graham Samuel wrote: > > Wow! That?s great. > > Thanks > > Graham > >> On 2 Aug 2016, at 13:30, Matthias Rebbe wrote: >> >> >> >>> Am 02.08.2016 um 12:32 schrieb Graham Samuel >: >>> >>> Matthias, are you planning to use Zygodact with the Fastspring platform? Is this possible? I?ve literally just started exploring this area, so I?d appreciate any pointers. >>> >> Yes and yes. >> I have already setup a basic lc script for use with the Zygodact generator stack ?gen.rev? and Fastspring. And the test orders run through w/o problems. >> I will add some DB stuff to it, to store the orders in my own DB also. >> >> What i can say so far is: You definitely do need a commercial version of LC server, because the gen.rev stack Zygodact produces is password protected and LC Server Community Edition is not able to work with >> password protected stacks. >> >> I will create a pdf with intstructions for Zygodact/Fastspring with sample scripts like the PDF i created for Zygodact/KAGI. >> The sample script will allow you to use it right away. You will just have to change one value in that script. It?s a private key which is provided by Fastspring. >> >> But give me 2-3 days, okay? >> >> Regards, >> >> Matthias >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Graham >>> >>>> On 2 Aug 2016, at 09:59, Matthias Rebbe > wrote: >>>> >>>> Thanks Hugh, >>>> >>>> i had the same impression, but my tax consultant recommend to go the save and easy way and use a seller platform. >>>> >>>> So i set up an account with Fastspring this morning. At the moment i am building a web service around the my license generator. >>>> Seems not to be very complicated. >>>> >>>> Btw.: If someone is looking for a keygen solution for LiveCode then have a look at Zygodact >>>> http://hyperactivesw.com/solutions_zygodact.html >. >>>> >>>> I can?t say it often enough: It?s really an awesome and timesaving solution. >>>> >>>> Matthias >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Matthias Rebbe >>>> Bramkampsieke 13 >>>> 32312 L?bbecke >>>> Tel +49 5741 310000 >>>> +49 160 5504462 >>>> Fax: +49 5741 310002 >>>> eMail: matthias at m-r-d.de > >>>> >>>> BR5 Konverter - BR5 -> MP3 > >>>>> Am 02.08.2016 um 10:07 schrieb FlexibleLearning.com >: >>>>> >>>>> EU VAT is only due on AUTOMATED transactions. Communicating by email and >>>>> attachments does NOT constitute "Digital Services"... >>>>> >>>>> https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/41 >>>>> 5931/VAT_MOSS_Flow_chart_FSB_edit_V1_0.pdf >>>>> >>>>> If your product requires a key (i.e. they are buying a key to the software) >>>>> and you take the time to send your customer a personal email with the key, >>>>> my understanding is this is a MANUAL transaction and so falls outside the >>>>> scope of the legislation. If the key is issued automatically, then it does >>>>> fall in the scope of the legislation. >>>>> >>>>> This is my understanding of this mess. I am not a lawyer and you should make >>>>> up your own mind whether you are affected or not. >>>>> >>>>> Hugh Senior >>>>> FLCo >>>>> >>>>> Matthias Rebbe wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I know, Paypal is easy. I used it before 01.01.2015. But after that date >>>>> the EU >>>>>> changed the rules how VAT has to be handled for digital products when sold >>>>>> within the EU. >>>>>> So the VAT declarations for every EU country i have to do every month is >>>>> the >>>>>> problem. Using PayPal i am the seller of the product and therefore i am >>>>>> responsible for the VAT declarations. >>>>>> >>>>>> Every month / 3 months i have to declare how much VAT i have received >>>>>> from the customers for each of the EU countries i sold my software to. >>>>>> That means, even if i just sell only one license to a customer in France >>>>> for >>>>>> example, i have to do same amount of paper work as if i have sold 20 >>>>>> licenses to 20 different customers in France. >>>>>> If i sell 5 licenses to 5 different EU countries, i have to do 5 >>>>> declarations. >>>>>> And if i do not sell for example to a french customer one month, i still >>>>> have >>>>>> to do the declaration for France. In this case with the information that i >>>>> did >>>>>> not receive ?french? VAT that month. >>>>>> >>>>>> You can imagine how much work that is. >>>>>> >>>>>> I think i will give Fastspring or Avangate a try. Let?s see who of them >>>>> answers >>>>>> my email questions faster? ;) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Matthias >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> >> Matthias Rebbe >> Bramkampsieke 13 >> 32312 L?bbecke >> Tel +49 5741 310000 >> +49 160 5504462 >> Fax: +49 5741 310002 >> eMail: matthias at m-r-d.de >> >> BR5 Konverter - BR5 -> MP3 >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Tue Aug 2 11:37:43 2016 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 08:37:43 -0700 Subject: Refer to new group? Message-ID: <8c3c6ef0-7d4c-bb7f-fc99-ad8e8f81650e@fourthworld.com> I vaguely recall some new language element recently added to allow us to more reliably refer to newly-created groups. Apparently the "group" command is an exception to the general rule that "it" will contain the long ID of a newly-created object after a command that creates it. And using "last" is not always reliable with groups. After reviewing Release Notes from 8.1 back to 6.7 I can't find mention of such an option. Am I dreaming? I was prompted to explore this from this forum thread: http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=27707 -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Tue Aug 2 11:45:48 2016 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 18:45:48 +0300 Subject: Refer to new group? In-Reply-To: <8c3c6ef0-7d4c-bb7f-fc99-ad8e8f81650e@fourthworld.com> References: <8c3c6ef0-7d4c-bb7f-fc99-ad8e8f81650e@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Just did this: on mouseUp group btn "A" and btn "B" set the name of the last group to "GROOOP" end mouseUp and it worked. Why would 'last' not be reliable? Richmond. On 2.08.2016 18:37, Richard Gaskin wrote: > I vaguely recall some new language element recently added to allow us > to more reliably refer to newly-created groups. > > Apparently the "group" command is an exception to the general rule > that "it" will contain the long ID of a newly-created object after a > command that creates it. > > And using "last" is not always reliable with groups. > > After reviewing Release Notes from 8.1 back to 6.7 I can't find > mention of such an option. > > Am I dreaming? > > I was prompted to explore this from this forum thread: > http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=27707 > From revolution at jaedworks.com Tue Aug 2 12:04:23 2016 From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 09:04:23 -0700 Subject: Refer to new group? In-Reply-To: <8c3c6ef0-7d4c-bb7f-fc99-ad8e8f81650e@fourthworld.com> References: <8c3c6ef0-7d4c-bb7f-fc99-ad8e8f81650e@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: At 8:37 AM -0700 8/2/2016, Richard Gaskin wrote: >Apparently the "group" command is an exception to the general rule >that "it" will contain the long ID of a newly-created object after a >command that creates it. > >And using "last" is not always reliable with groups. Since your script knows which object(s) you grouped, you could use the owner: group field 1 and field 2 get the long ID of the owner of field 1 -- owner is the new group From pete at lcsql.com Tue Aug 2 12:18:16 2016 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Tue, 02 Aug 2016 16:18:16 +0000 Subject: [ ANN ] Release 8.1.0 DP-3 In-Reply-To: <9e05cee0-e380-4900-f0a3-6eb1dff2deb4@techstrategies.com.au> References: <6AE03CAD-CB4C-4C58-AB3D-43CE4C9BD24B@hindu.org> <1f24dfda-bf58-e2fe-eb17-71f8b897a700@techstrategies.com.au> <7f0c3880-b212-0eae-db5d-9c7a98a3c217@techstrategies.com.au> <76946d18-c30a-4520-be2d-0f31fb2753e5@techstrategies.com.au> <53141730-bd2b-3e5b-5760-668e86be35a6@hyperactivesw.com> <9e05cee0-e380-4900-f0a3-6eb1dff2deb4@techstrategies.com.au> Message-ID: Hi Charles, Not a big deal but I'm wondering why the library stack for tsNet does not have a name that begins with "rev". There are a few other exceptions to that convention but I don't recall any recent IDE stack additions that weren't named that way. On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 3:51 AM Charles Warwick < charles at techstrategies.com.au> wrote: > On 2/08/2016 5:25 am, J. Landman Gay wrote: > > On 8/1/2016 12:41 AM, Charles Warwick wrote: > >> You can issue post/get/put asynchronous commands even to the same server > >> with the Indy license using tsNet commands directly > > > > Remind me, is "get url" blocking? > > > Yes :-) > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From revdev at pdslabs.net Tue Aug 2 12:37:16 2016 From: revdev at pdslabs.net (Phil Davis) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 09:37:16 -0700 Subject: Refer to new group? In-Reply-To: References: <8c3c6ef0-7d4c-bb7f-fc99-ad8e8f81650e@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <770c570a-3565-1c02-6283-6008d8cc764a@pdslabs.net> If you use the "owner" method of getting the group's ID, be sure you refer to the child control by ID - its number will *always* be changed by the act of grouping it. Phil Davis On 8/2/16 9:04 AM, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote: > At 8:37 AM -0700 8/2/2016, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> Apparently the "group" command is an exception to the general rule >> that "it" will contain the long ID of a newly-created object after a >> command that creates it. >> >> And using "last" is not always reliable with groups. > > > Since your script knows which object(s) you grouped, you could use the > owner: > > group field 1 and field 2 > get the long ID of the owner of field 1 -- owner is the new group > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Phil Davis From revolution at jaedworks.com Tue Aug 2 13:10:57 2016 From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 10:10:57 -0700 Subject: Refer to new group? In-Reply-To: <770c570a-3565-1c02-6283-6008d8cc764a@pdslabs.net> References: <8c3c6ef0-7d4c-bb7f-fc99-ad8e8f81650e@fourthworld.com> <770c570a-3565-1c02-6283-6008d8cc764a@pdslabs.net> Message-ID: At 9:37 AM -0700 8/2/2016, Phil Davis wrote: >If you use the "owner" method of getting the group's ID, be sure you >refer to the child control by ID - its number will *always* be >changed by the act of grouping it. ... if you refer to it as "control N", but not if you refer to it as "field N" (or "button N", etc). From revdev at pdslabs.net Tue Aug 2 13:41:04 2016 From: revdev at pdslabs.net (Phil Davis) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 10:41:04 -0700 Subject: Refer to new group? In-Reply-To: References: <8c3c6ef0-7d4c-bb7f-fc99-ad8e8f81650e@fourthworld.com> <770c570a-3565-1c02-6283-6008d8cc764a@pdslabs.net> Message-ID: Not so. Try this: create button "first" create button "second" create button "third" put the name of button 1 group button 1 and button 2 put CR & the name of button 1 after msg Under your scenario, I would expect the name of button 1 to be "first" both times we put the name. But the script yields this: button "first" button "third" Certainly there may be cases where your scenario does happen, but my simple test is not one of those cases. :-) Regards - Phil On 8/2/16 10:10 AM, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote: > At 9:37 AM -0700 8/2/2016, Phil Davis wrote: >> If you use the "owner" method of getting the group's ID, be sure you >> refer to the child control by ID - its number will *always* be >> changed by the act of grouping it. > > ... if you refer to it as "control N", but not if you refer to it as > "field N" (or "button N", etc). > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Phil Davis From revdev at pdslabs.net Tue Aug 2 13:49:23 2016 From: revdev at pdslabs.net (Phil Davis) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 10:49:23 -0700 Subject: Refer to new group? In-Reply-To: <770c570a-3565-1c02-6283-6008d8cc764a@pdslabs.net> References: <8c3c6ef0-7d4c-bb7f-fc99-ad8e8f81650e@fourthworld.com> <770c570a-3565-1c02-6283-6008d8cc764a@pdslabs.net> Message-ID: <468d114d-7550-9ddc-71e3-48baa25f065e@pdslabs.net> I should have said "refer to the child control by ID or name" - neither of which are affected by grouping. Phil On 8/2/16 9:37 AM, Phil Davis wrote: > If you use the "owner" method of getting the group's ID, be sure you > refer to the child control by ID - its number will *always* be changed > by the act of grouping it. > > Phil Davis > > > > On 8/2/16 9:04 AM, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote: >> At 8:37 AM -0700 8/2/2016, Richard Gaskin wrote: >>> Apparently the "group" command is an exception to the general rule >>> that "it" will contain the long ID of a newly-created object after a >>> command that creates it. >>> >>> And using "last" is not always reliable with groups. >> >> >> Since your script knows which object(s) you grouped, you could use >> the owner: >> >> group field 1 and field 2 >> get the long ID of the owner of field 1 -- owner is the new group >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > -- Phil Davis From dunbarx at aol.com Tue Aug 2 14:11:57 2016 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx at aol.com) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 14:11:57 -0400 Subject: Refer to new group? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1564c747a19-4052-41f@webprd-a39.mail.aol.com> Phil. Grouping the first two buttons maximizes their layer numbers. I see no reference to this in the "group" entry in the dictionary, though perhaps this makes sense, in that those first two controls, by virtue of being grouped, are relegated frontwards in layer number. They are "newer" controls in that sense. I think. Craig Newman create button "first" create button "second" create button "third" put the name of button 1 group button 1 and button 2 put CR & the name of button 1 after msg -----Original Message----- From: Phil Davis To: How to use LiveCode Sent: Tue, Aug 2, 2016 1:43 pm Subject: Re: Refer to new group? Not so. Try this: create button "first" create button "second" create button "third" put the name of button 1 group button 1 and button 2 put CR & the name of button 1 after msg Under your scenario, I would expect the name of button 1 to be "first" both times we put the name. But the script yields this: button "first" button "third" Certainly there may be cases where your scenario does happen, but my simple test is not one of those cases. :-) Regards - Phil On 8/2/16 10:10 AM, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote: > At 9:37 AM -0700 8/2/2016, Phil Davis wrote: >> If you use the "owner" method of getting the group's ID, be sure you >> refer to the child control by ID - its number will *always* be >> changed by the act of grouping it. > > ... if you refer to it as "control N", but not if you refer to it as > "field N" (or "button N", etc). > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Phil Davis _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de Tue Aug 2 14:49:28 2016 From: sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de (Wilhelm Sanke) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 20:49:28 +0200 Subject: OT: Need better hardware vs need better software./ Sub-subject "HyperPad" Message-ID: <57A0EB38.3070206@hrz.uni-kassel.de> 7On Tue, 2 Aug 2016 10:23:54 +0300 Richmond wrote: > Somewhere deep inside one of my backup disks I have a feeling > > there is a version of RunRev/LC for DOS . . . . > > There's certainly a version of Metacard. > > It might be "fun" to take it/them for a trot with FreeDOS. > > R. Hi Richmond, Somewhere in the depths of one of my computers I still have a copy of "HyperPad" (by Brightbill & Roberts), the first (and only?) Hypercard clone for DOS. I experimented with HyperPad for some time, used it among other authoring tools in a programming workshop at the Technical University of Madras, where I also presented as an example a stack about "Basic Hindi Grammar: Verbs". Of course it was not possible to attach Devanagari to this DOS-stack, but I later ported it to Metacard and Revolution. This stack and other Hindi-related stacks are still available from here, if you should be interested. HyperPad had a number of interesting features missing in Hypercard, Metacard, and still not having been added to LiveCode. On April 13, 2001, I had written to , subject: "Metacard anniversary": > (snip) > With x-talk languages I started with Hypercard and HyperPad, moved to > Toolbook because of Windows, looked at Omo, worked with Supercard and > Spinnaker's "Plus", and finally arrived at MetaCard. HyperPad appeared > in 1989 and was - as far as I know - the first Hypercard clone for the > DOS-world. It was in a number of aspects a very much improved clone of > Hypercard. The big problem was that it was a pure DOS program and that > Brightbill&Roberts unfortunately never succeeded to produce a Windows > version. HyperPad was dead by 1995. The first thing worth mentioning > about HyperPad was its wonderful documentation, two volumes of nearly > 400 pages each (a "User Guide" and the "PadTalk Reference") that left > almost no questions open, partly because for each instance of the > PadTalk language there were clear practical examples how to use the > language in a given context. In the six years that HyperPad was > supported by Brightbill&Roberts I approached them about three times > about issues I had difficulties with. HyperPad had a clear, organized > user interface, could be easily connected to databases, and could be > extended with "extensions" (simlar to xcmds and dlls) - which again > was elaborated in the documentation. PadTalk contained a > standard-deviation function - back in 1989 - a feature Scott included > this month in Metacard 2.4. Two other "progressive" examples of the > PadTalk language: - There was a "trim" function, very useful for > creating educational software, that deleted leading and trailing > spaces of user input. - "lines" and "items" had features different > from other x-talk languages, including Metacard, e.g. the scriptline > put "something" after last line of... would create a new line without > having to add "CR&", putting something before or after an item would > likewise create a new item without having to add ","&. This made > scripting in many instances easier and comfortable. Of course, you > could always put something on the same line by then adding " put > something after last word (last item, last char) of line x", but the > number of occasions where you have to create a new line or item are > surely much more frequent than adding something on the same line. So > far part of a nostalgic look back at HyperPad.-- To come back to the > subject of this message: I support those that suggest approaches to > broaden the basis of Metacard. The 10th anniversary of Metacard (is > that correct?) would be one more reason for taking steps in that > direction. Regards, Wilhelm Sanke --- Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren gepr?ft. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Tue Aug 2 15:09:50 2016 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 14:09:50 -0500 Subject: looking for an alternative to KAGI, because KAGI ceased operations In-Reply-To: <9BBF0638-7DF7-4430-9C23-0505EC737B56@m-r-d.de> References: <000c01d1ec94$f9caafa0$ed600ee0$@FlexibleLearning.com> <03E4D5EB-568B-405F-A153-DAF453BC1625@m-r-d.de> <9BBF0638-7DF7-4430-9C23-0505EC737B56@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <21a3b756-e8b5-2845-d49c-af906e661fdd@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/2/2016 7:30 AM, Matthias Rebbe wrote: > > >> Am 02.08.2016 um 12:32 schrieb Graham Samuel >: >> >> Matthias, are you planning to use Zygodact with the Fastspring platform? Is this possible? I?ve literally just started exploring this area, so I?d appreciate any pointers. >> > Yes and yes. > I have already setup a basic lc script for use with the Zygodact generator stack ?gen.rev? and Fastspring. And the test orders run through w/o problems. > I will add some DB stuff to it, to store the orders in my own DB also. > > What i can say so far is: You definitely do need a commercial version of LC server, because the gen.rev stack Zygodact produces is password protected and LC Server Community Edition is not able to work with > password protected stacks. > > I will create a pdf with intstructions for Zygodact/Fastspring with sample scripts like the PDF i created for Zygodact/KAGI. > The sample script will allow you to use it right away. You will just have to change one value in that script. It?s a private key which is provided by Fastspring. That's terrific, Mattias. When you have it finished, could you send me a link so that I can put it on my site for other Zygodact customers to use too? -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de Tue Aug 2 15:12:31 2016 From: sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de (Wilhelm Sanke) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 21:12:31 +0200 Subject: Refer to new group? Message-ID: <57A0F09F.3050201@hrz.uni-kassel.de> Bug 8275 about "Groups: Bugs and features ("last group" broken)?" submitted in 2009 is still pending. Kind regards, Wilhelm Sanke *Bug 8275* -Groups: Bugs and features ("last group" broken)? *Status*: PENDING *Version*: 4.0.0 DP4 *Platform*: All *Reported*: 2009-09-16 12:45 BST by Wilhelm Sanke *Modified*: 2016-04-07 15:04 BST *CC List*: 3 users (show ) --- Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren gepr?ft. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From brahma at hindu.org Tue Aug 2 15:23:12 2016 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 19:23:12 +0000 Subject: [ ANN ] Release 8.1.0 DP-3 In-Reply-To: References: <6AE03CAD-CB4C-4C58-AB3D-43CE4C9BD24B@hindu.org> <1f24dfda-bf58-e2fe-eb17-71f8b897a700@techstrategies.com.au> <7f0c3880-b212-0eae-db5d-9c7a98a3c217@techstrategies.com.au> <76946d18-c30a-4520-be2d-0f31fb2753e5@techstrategies.com.au> <53141730-bd2b-3e5b-5760-668e86be35a6@hyperactivesw.com> <9e05cee0-e380-4900-f0a3-6eb1dff2deb4@techstrategies.com.au> Message-ID: Note recent update on the other thread BR: I hit the "no business license" wall on attempt to use "tsNetUploadFileSync" CHARLES: Ah, yes. Sorry, I have forgotten that detail and it was not mentioned in the DP3 release announcement. For Indy users, SFTP and SMTP(S) protocols do not support "file-backed" requests. for my immediate use case, use of "put url "sftp://" will suffice; so it's not a big issue here for me at the moment. but POINT: Usage (over) License still needs clarification(s) From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Tue Aug 2 15:52:58 2016 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 21:52:58 +0200 Subject: looking for an alternative to KAGI, because KAGI ceased operations In-Reply-To: <21a3b756-e8b5-2845-d49c-af906e661fdd@hyperactivesw.com> References: <000c01d1ec94$f9caafa0$ed600ee0$@FlexibleLearning.com> <03E4D5EB-568B-405F-A153-DAF453BC1625@m-r-d.de> <9BBF0638-7DF7-4430-9C23-0505EC737B56@m-r-d.de> <21a3b756-e8b5-2845-d49c-af906e661fdd@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <24E67540-CA20-43C2-AF5F-A459DD21D12E@m-r-d.de> > Am 02.08.2016 um 21:09 schrieb J. Landman Gay >: > > > That's terrific, Mattias. When you have it finished, could you send me a link so that I can put it on my site for other Zygodact customers to use too? > Yes of course. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode Matthias Rebbe Bramkampsieke 13 32312 L?bbecke Tel +49 5741 310000 +49 160 5504462 Fax: +49 5741 310002 eMail: matthias at m-r-d.de BR5 Konverter - BR5 -> MP3 From ambassador at fourthworld.com Tue Aug 2 16:30:39 2016 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 13:30:39 -0700 Subject: Refer to new group? In-Reply-To: <57A0F09F.3050201@hrz.uni-kassel.de> References: <57A0F09F.3050201@hrz.uni-kassel.de> Message-ID: Wilhelm Sanke wrote: > submitted in 2009 is still pending. > *Bug 8275* -Groups: > Bugs and features ("last group" broken)? > *Status*: PENDING Thanks, Wilhelm. I had thought I'd seen a new engine enhancement for this, but apparently I'm mistaken. Since I can't think of a circumstance in which the IDs of the objects being grouped can't be known in advance, Jeanne's suggestion appears to be the best workaround available thus far. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From scott at tactilemedia.com Tue Aug 2 16:41:03 2016 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 13:41:03 -0700 Subject: Refer to new group? In-Reply-To: References: <57A0F09F.3050201@hrz.uni-kassel.de> Message-ID: <4FA157B4-D3E8-4C78-98A6-14C199E8CC23@tactilemedia.com> I thought I had read that the LC guys had fixed "it" to reliably refer the newly created group. If this still doesn't work, another workaround is to set the name of the templateGroup before creating any group, so you have a guaranteed reference when the group is created. I've used this option for years without issue. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media UX/UI Design > On Aug 2, 2016, at 1:30 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > Wilhelm Sanke wrote: > > > submitted in 2009 is still pending. > > *Bug 8275* -Groups: > > Bugs and features ("last group" broken)? > > *Status*: PENDING > > Thanks, Wilhelm. I had thought I'd seen a new engine enhancement for this, but apparently I'm mistaken. > > Since I can't think of a circumstance in which the IDs of the objects being grouped can't be known in advance, Jeanne's suggestion appears to be the best workaround available thus far. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bonnmike at gmail.com Tue Aug 2 16:51:24 2016 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 14:51:24 -0600 Subject: Create and Delete Browser Widget? In-Reply-To: <4355DF29-097B-4E6D-90C8-3D6D9A5C4486@hindu.org> References: <4355DF29-097B-4E6D-90C8-3D6D9A5C4486@hindu.org> Message-ID: Can you simply set the rect of the browser widget to be off screen? On Sat, Jul 30, 2016 at 9:53 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami < brahma at hindu.org> wrote: > Thks for the tips. > > Results: > > Stack A > has a mobileScroller on card 1 > the group that scrolls has links, some to out to another stack that > has the browser widget. > > Stack B The Browser Stack > runs landscape? I pull a URL from our web server? runs beautifully. > has button to go back to cd 1 of stack A > > If I set the now to vis = false? (hide) > > When we arrive back at stack A we don't see the browser occupying the > space any more, at least visually. But the mobileScroller now is failing. I > cannot scroll the group on the screen. > > I suspected that the invisible browser may still be trapping the touch > events. > > OK? so then next test: > > on stack B, Delete browser on close and create browser on open. > result: 1st problem is geometry? the stack is set to landscape? and when > I create the browser as invisible and set the rect of the browser to > 50,30,the width of this card, the height of this card after creating it? it > fails and is drawn in the lower corner in a rect that is about 200px square > in the lower left of the card. OK, setting that aside, on mobile, I can > start the video, on iOS it expands (youtube behavior) to take the full > screen and when I click DONE it drops back to my card view (with browser > stuck in the lower left area)? > > So now I set the navigation in the behavior that is attached to the stack > to delete the browers on exiting that card/stack and issue go recent. > > So now we are back at Stack A? I can see in the project browser ondesktop > (which is now runtime responsive in 8.1 dp3 YAY!) that the browser object > is indeed being created and deleted? BUT > > the scroller region on CD 1 of Stack A is still non responsive? I have to > leave that stack, go to another stack and then back again? *now* the > scroller is responsive. > > So, this is a bit tricky eating up a lot of time going no where? > > BR > > > On 7/30/16, 11:27 AM, "use-livecode on behalf of panagiotis merakos" < > use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com on behalf of merakosp at gmail.com> > wrote: > > See the [create widget] command in the dictionary. You can do: > > create widget "MyBrowser" as "com.livecode.widget.browser" > > Maybe worth trying first to set the "visible" of the browser widget to > false/true when you close/open the card that has the browser widget. If > this does not work then try to delete/create the widget > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From bonnmike at gmail.com Tue Aug 2 17:27:17 2016 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 15:27:17 -0600 Subject: Destroy Browser Window In-Reply-To: <624C9239-9DB4-44E8-8FB1-87FAEAC4F81A@hindu.org> References: <033F7947-6B82-4305-A0BB-65E3C6DD8BC4@hindu.org> <624C9239-9DB4-44E8-8FB1-87FAEAC4F81A@hindu.org> Message-ID: If setting its visible to false, and/or moving it off screen won't work, treat it like the control it is. If you were deleting a field, you would "delete field "fieldname.." or whatever method you wish to use to specify the specific field. Do the same with the browser widget. delete widget "nameofmybrowserwidget" On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 2:58 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami < brahma at hindu.org> wrote: > setting the URL for the browser widget to empty doesn't destroy the > region? all it does it turns it "white" (empty) so now you have a white > block overlaying the stack "permanently" with no means to dismiss. > > > On 7/28/16, 10:28 AM, "use-livecode on behalf of Sannyasin > Brahmanathaswami" brahma at hindu.org> wrote: > > But, there is this in the LCB file? perhaps all it takes is setting > the URL of the browser to empty? will try that? but still seems like there > should be a higher level "destroy browser instance" for the new browser > widget > > private handler clearBrowser() > setHtmlText(the empty string) > end handler > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From revolution at jaedworks.com Tue Aug 2 18:09:41 2016 From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 15:09:41 -0700 Subject: Refer to new group? In-Reply-To: References: <8c3c6ef0-7d4c-bb7f-fc99-ad8e8f81650e@fourthworld.com> <770c570a-3565-1c02-6283-6008d8cc764a@pdslabs.net> Message-ID: At 10:41 AM -0700 8/2/2016, Phil Davis wrote: >Not so. Try this: You're right. I was thinking in terms of grouping objects that are already at the top of the layers, as with a bunch of newly created objects. From brahma at hindu.org Tue Aug 2 18:32:01 2016 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 22:32:01 +0000 Subject: Report Errors from the IDE? Message-ID: We are using a console log and trapping errors? sometimes things pop up from the IDE like 8/2/16 12:13 PM [error] API#20 >>> errorDialog : Handler: error in statement: textReplaceRaw on line 2108 this is not in any script of ours will it help to report these? very difficult to replicate? or pinpoint when in the loading of our stack, these IDE errors are being generated? they don't seem break anything? From dunbarx at aol.com Tue Aug 2 18:46:11 2016 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx at aol.com) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 18:46:11 -0400 Subject: Report Errors from the IDE? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1564d6f8e28-4052-144e@webprd-a39.mail.aol.com> Hi. Might this be related to the fact that I see spurious breakpoints listed in the breakpoint tab of the script editor for lines far greater than the scripts to which they ostensibly belong? In other words, a script of 700 lines might have three breakpoints in the 2000's. I am constantly deleting these things. They seem innocuous, but baffling. I have no idea when they are created; I only run across them when managing real ones. Craig Newman -----Original Message----- From: Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami To: How LiveCode Sent: Tue, Aug 2, 2016 6:33 pm Subject: Report Errors from the IDE? We are using a console log and trapping errors? sometimes things pop up from the IDE like 8/2/16 12:13 PM [error] API#20 >>> errorDialog : Handler: error in statement: textReplaceRaw on line 2108 this is not in any script of ours will it help to report these? very difficult to replicate? or pinpoint when in the loading of our stack, these IDE errors are being generated? they don't seem break anything? _______________________________________________use-livecode mailing listuse-livecode at lists.runrev.comPlease visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From monte at appisle.net Wed Aug 3 01:07:31 2016 From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding) Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2016 06:07:31 +0100 Subject: Refer to new group? In-Reply-To: <8c3c6ef0-7d4c-bb7f-fc99-ad8e8f81650e@fourthworld.com> References: <8c3c6ef0-7d4c-bb7f-fc99-ad8e8f81650e@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Funnily enough I bumped up against this on Monday when making this patch https://github.com/livecode/livecode-ide/pull/1301/files and filed this report http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18118 As you can see I?m using Jeanne?s workaround here but really this needs some engine improvements which is why I filed the report to look into when we get a chance. Cheers Monte > On 2 Aug 2016, at 4:37 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > I vaguely recall some new language element recently added to allow us to more reliably refer to newly-created groups. > > Apparently the "group" command is an exception to the general rule that "it" will contain the long ID of a newly-created object after a command that creates it. > > And using "last" is not always reliable with groups. > > After reviewing Release Notes from 8.1 back to 6.7 I can't find mention of such an option. > > Am I dreaming? > > I was prompted to explore this from this forum thread: > http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=27707 > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Aug 3 10:31:40 2016 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2016 07:31:40 -0700 Subject: Refer to new group? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Monte Goulding wrote: > Funnily enough I bumped up against this on Monday when making this > patch https://github.com/livecode/livecode-ide/pull/1301/files > and filed > this report http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18118 > > > As you can see I?m using Jeanne?s workaround here but really this > needs some engine improvements which is why I filed the report to > look into when we get a chance. Thanks for moving that forward, Monte. I agree that the best solution would be for "it" to contain the long id of the newly created group. "last group" doesn't appear to be broken per se, because AFAIK it seems to faithfully return the group with the highest ordinal number, even if in some cases we might prefer it behave like a "most recently created" function instead. So making sure "it" has the object reference not only provides a good solution, but one which is consistent with other object creation commands. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From monte at appisle.net Wed Aug 3 10:38:42 2016 From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding) Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2016 15:38:42 +0100 Subject: Refer to new group? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > On 3 Aug 2016, at 3:31 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > Thanks for moving that forward, Monte. > > I agree that the best solution would be for "it" to contain the long id of the newly created group. > > "last group" doesn't appear to be broken per se, because AFAIK it seems to faithfully return the group with the highest ordinal number, even if in some cases we might prefer it behave like a "most recently created" function instead. > > So making sure "it" has the object reference not only provides a good solution, but one which is consistent with other object creation commands. I?ve actually implemented that part between conference commitments but I would like to also be able to pass a return delimited list of object references to the command. The ` and ` style lists are used for a number of commands and I think it all cases a list would be nice to have a return delimited list alternative. So I guess I know what I?m doing on the flight home ;-) Cheers Monte From brahma at hindu.org Wed Aug 3 15:52:03 2016 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2016 19:52:03 +0000 Subject: Set DoubleClickInterval very low! Message-ID: For Mobile newbies Is your Mobile App Slow to Respond to Taps? the default doubleclickinterval for LC is 800 milliseconds. This is nearly 1 whole second the engine waits before doing anything with your click/tap. This carries over to your mobile app. No wonder the app feels sluggish and doesn't feel like it gets the user's taps do this on preopenstack set the doubleclickinterval to 100 # other initializations? end preopenstack At least in our new app, it suddenly came alive! BR From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Aug 3 16:06:56 2016 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2016 13:06:56 -0700 Subject: Set DoubleClickInterval very low! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47cbb531-35bd-9e53-7aad-828333ace41f@fourthworld.com> Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote: > For Mobile newbies > > Is your Mobile App Slow to Respond to Taps? > > the default doubleclickinterval for LC is 800 milliseconds. This is > nearly 1 whole second the engine waits before doing anything with > your click/tap. > > This carries over to your mobile app. No wonder the app feels > sluggish and doesn't feel like it gets the user's taps > > do this > > on preopenstack > set the doubleclickinterval to 100 > # other initializations? > end preopenstack > > At least in our new app, it suddenly came alive! The doubleClickInterval governs the durations between two clicks to determine if the pair of clicks should be interpreted as a double-click. With any single-click gesture there is of course no interval, so any effect you may see with changing the doubleClickInterval with any single-click gesture would be a bug and should be reported with a recipe that will let the team fix it quickly. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Aug 3 17:59:29 2016 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2016 21:59:29 +0000 Subject: Answer Folder Prompt Message Message-ID: <79D84C63-8910-4B8C-9961-C775AB3D868A@iotecdigital.com> Hi all. I just noticed that Answer Folder prompt is not showing up in El Capitan. The dialog shows and works okay, but there is no prompt. This may be an issue with El Capitan or it may be a bug. Bob S From pete at lcsql.com Wed Aug 3 18:21:37 2016 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2016 22:21:37 +0000 Subject: lcStackBrowser v 2.2.4 released Message-ID: lcStackBrowser v2.2.4 is now available for download at http://www.lcsql.com/lcstackbrowser.html. This is a free upgrade for all existing customers. This is a bug fix release, in particular addressing several issues when using lcStackBrowser in conjunction with Livecode v8. The full release notes can be found at https://goo.gl/Xg6gpC From brahma at hindu.org Wed Aug 3 19:32:18 2016 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2016 23:32:18 +0000 Subject: Set DoubleClickInterval very low! In-Reply-To: <47cbb531-35bd-9e53-7aad-828333ace41f@fourthworld.com> References: , <47cbb531-35bd-9e53-7aad-828333ace41f@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: How is it a bug? logically the engine must wait for the double click interval before responding or double clicks could never be passed? N'est ce pas? BR : Richard Gaskin wrote: With any single-click gesture there is of course no interval, so any effect you may see with changing the doubleClickInterval with any single-click gesture would be a bug and should be reported with a recipe that will let the team fix it quickly. From mark at livecode.com Wed Aug 3 19:55:31 2016 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2016 01:55:31 +0200 Subject: Set DoubleClickInterval very low! In-Reply-To: References: , <47cbb531-35bd-9e53-7aad-828333ace41f@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On 2016-08-04 01:32, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote: > How is it a bug? logically the engine must wait for the double click > interval before responding or double clicks could never be passed? > N'est ce pas? No - that isn't how double clicks work in LiveCode. On the first mouseDown the engine: 1) Stores the time of the mouseDown (last-click-time) 2) Stores the location of the mouseDown (last-click-loc) 3) Dispatches mouseDown On a subsequent mouseDown the engine does the following: if current-click-time - last-click-time < doubleClickInterval and \ abs(current-click-loc.x - click-loc.x) < doubleClickDelta and \ abs(current-click-loc.y - click-loc.y) < doubleClickDelta then dispatch mouseDoubleDown else dispatch mouseDown end if i.e. If a click is within the doubleClickInterval time-wise since the last click, and within the doubleClickDelta distance since the last click a mouseDoubleDown message is sent instead of mouseDown. (Note that if a mouse down event results in a mouseDown message, then you will receive a mouseUp message when the mouse is released, and if a mouse down even results in a mouseDoubleDown message, then you will receive a mouseDoubleUp message when the mouse is released). What you are seeing is the fact that if you tap quickly (i.e. each one within the doubleClickInterval and close to each other on the screen) then you will receive: mouseDown mouseUp mouseDoubleDown mouseDoubleUp mouseDown mouseUp mouseDoubleDown mouseDoubleUp i.e. You will get an alternating sequence of down/up and doubleDown/doubleUp pairs. Solution: If you don't need to handle double clicks do: on mouseDoubleDown mouseDown end mouseDoubleDown on mouseDoubleUp mouseUp end mouseDoubleUp This is a long standing (i.e. forever!) 'the way things work' in LiveCode - although I think there is a way it could be a great deal better, and more intuitive. The only use of multi-click 'gestures' (which is what 'double clicks' are) which makes sense from a UI interaction point of view is where each click builds upon the action of the previous one. e.g. In Finder: 1) The first click selects a file 2) The second click runs the file (which is already selected at this point) e.g. In Text Editors: 1) The first click places the caret 2) The second click selects the word the caret is in 3) The third click selects the line the word is in Thus, one possible improvement would be to ditch the 'double' messages entirely, and add a 'clickCount' event property (a bit like the clickLoc) which returns the number of subsequent clicks. This would mean that (in a mouseDown / Up) handler you just choose what you do based on the clickCount. This means you can easily handle single, double or triple click sequences (which, I think is pretty much as far as you can stretch that particular bit of physical interaction - unless you want to cause the user significant problems in using your UI). i.e. In a double click scenario you would get: mouseDown (clickCount == 1) mouseUp (clickCount == 1) mouseDown (clickCount == 2) mouseUp (clickCount == 2) This can be further built upon by introducing the idea of gestures. A 'click' is actually a gesture, not an event - i.e. it is a precise sequence of events which can be interpreted as a specific type of action. Introducing gestures you'd get the following message sequence: mouseDown (clickCount == 1) mouseUp (clickCount == 1) click (clickCount == 1) mouseDown (clickCount == 2) mouseUp (clickCount == 2) doubleClick (clickCount == 2) if passed then click (clickCount == 2) For what its worth, LiveCode Builder uses the clickCount model (i.e. no double messages) - although we haven't added 'gestures' there yet. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Aug 3 20:35:23 2016 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2016 17:35:23 -0700 Subject: Set DoubleClickInterval very low! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <09b91992-ac19-d6d7-04e8-7a1f1295d16f@fourthworld.com> Mark Waddingham wrote: > On 2016-08-04 01:32, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote: >> How is it a bug? logically the engine must wait for the double click >> interval before responding or double clicks could never be passed? >> N'est ce pas? > > No - that isn't how double clicks work in LiveCode. I think LC's implementation is similar to how most OSes handle it, at least judging from the old Inside Mac details on click interval and slop rect, and the XP refs I used to read. Given that, I'm not sure we need to have you spend time away from other tasks to explore this: > This is a long standing (i.e. forever!) 'the way things work' in > LiveCode - although I think there is a way it could be a great deal > better, and more intuitive. > > The only use of multi-click 'gestures' (which is what 'double clicks' > are) which makes sense from a UI interaction point of view is where > each > click builds upon the action of the previous one. > > e.g. In Finder: > > 1) The first click selects a file > 2) The second click runs the file (which is already selected at > this point) > > e.g. In Text Editors: > > 1) The first click places the caret > 2) The second click selects the word the caret is in > 3) The third click selects the line the word is in Those are both very good examples of the noun+verb interaction model for applying commands to object in WOMPs, which personally I feel is reasonably well supported in LC as it is. In brief, we first select an object (noun), and then perform an action on it (verb). Often the action is a command chosen from a menu, which would then act on whatever we'd selected. But sometimes a shortcut is provided for a menu action, such as in these examples with a second click. In practice it's extremely rare that we find any object that truly supports different actions on both single and double-clicks. The Finder example *seems* at first glance like such a case, but as we think about it more it becomes clear that no action ever takes place on the first click, it's always just a selection; the second click is the action, and which action it is will depend on the time/space constraints from the first click. Given all this, there may be other benefits to the proposed enhancements you outlined, but so far it seems all practical needs for supporting single- and double-clicks have been handled well with LC's current mouse messages. Indeed, for the rare case when one truly wants a single object to support actions on both single- and double-clicks, we've seen examples from the readers here of how we can keep track of the time between clicks to support even that edge case. Whether we keep track of the interval or the click count makes no difference to me, but with the latter we'd still need to maintain an awareness of the interval anyway, and best of all the current model is already done and ready to use. :) -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Aug 3 20:50:30 2016 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2016 17:50:30 -0700 Subject: Touch everywhere (was Re: Set DoubleClickInterval very low!) In-Reply-To: <09b91992-ac19-d6d7-04e8-7a1f1295d16f@fourthworld.com> References: <09b91992-ac19-d6d7-04e8-7a1f1295d16f@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <6a54e4ef-476b-5e77-df04-c01cc778c117@fourthworld.com> Earlier I wrote in reply to Mark Waddingham: > I think LC's implementation is similar to how most OSes handle it, > at least judging from the old Inside Mac details on click interval > and slop rect, and the XP refs I used to read. > > Given that, I'm not sure we need to have you spend time away from > other tasks to explore this... I'd like to amend that with an exploratory idea: supporting multitouch on all platforms. macOS currently supports touch gestures via the trackpad, and both Windows and some Linux distros like Ubuntu and Mint support direct touch on screen. If we're going to explore possible extensions for what we currently thing of as mouse messages, would it make sense to consider extending that further to support multitouch on all platforms, desktoo and mobile alike? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From pmbrig at gmail.com Wed Aug 3 22:14:05 2016 From: pmbrig at gmail.com (Peter M. Brigham) Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2016 22:14:05 -0400 Subject: Set DoubleClickInterval very low! In-Reply-To: References: , <47cbb531-35bd-9e53-7aad-828333ace41f@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <5EE1B0F5-C682-4506-BC91-0273E412C20B@gmail.com> So I must not be understanding this. If you want something to happen on mouseup and something else to happen on mousedoubleup, then how do you do it? If I put this into a button script: on mousedown put "mousedown" & cr after fld "text" end mousedown on mouseUp put "mouseup" & cr after fld "text" end mouseUp on mousedoubledown put "mousedoubledown" & cr after fld "text" end mousedoubledown on mousedoubleup put "mousedoubleup" & cr after fld "text" end mousedoubleup and I then do a doubleclick, I get mousedown mouseup mousedoubledown mousedoubleup in fld "text". So far so good. if I comment out the actions in the mousedown and mouseup handlers, so they are effectively blocking those messages, I get mousedoubledown mousedoubleup in the field. But how do I get mousedown mouseup on a single click and *only* mousedoubledown mousedoubleup on a doubleclick? It seems to me that if a doubleclick always produces both a mousedown/up and mousedoubledown/up set of messages, there is no way of preventing the mousedown/up actions happening in addition to the mousedoubledown/up actions. To make it clearer: on mouseup show grc "test1" end mouseup on mousedoubleup show grc "test2" end mousedoubleup the mousedoubleup action will always show both graphics, but I want it to only show grc "test2". ??? -- Peter Peter M. Brigham pmbrig at gmail.com On Aug 3, 2016, at 7:55 PM, Mark Waddingham wrote: > On 2016-08-04 01:32, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote: >> How is it a bug? logically the engine must wait for the double click >> interval before responding or double clicks could never be passed? >> N'est ce pas? > > No - that isn't how double clicks work in LiveCode. > > On the first mouseDown the engine: > > 1) Stores the time of the mouseDown (last-click-time) > 2) Stores the location of the mouseDown (last-click-loc) > 3) Dispatches mouseDown > > On a subsequent mouseDown the engine does the following: > > if current-click-time - last-click-time < doubleClickInterval and \ > abs(current-click-loc.x - click-loc.x) < doubleClickDelta and \ > abs(current-click-loc.y - click-loc.y) < doubleClickDelta then > dispatch mouseDoubleDown > else > dispatch mouseDown > end if > > i.e. If a click is within the doubleClickInterval time-wise since the last click, and within the doubleClickDelta distance since the last click a mouseDoubleDown message is sent instead of mouseDown. > > (Note that if a mouse down event results in a mouseDown message, then you will receive a mouseUp message when the mouse is released, and if a mouse down even results in a mouseDoubleDown message, then you will receive a mouseDoubleUp message when the mouse is released). > > What you are seeing is the fact that if you tap quickly (i.e. each one within the doubleClickInterval and close to each other on the screen) then you will receive: > > mouseDown > mouseUp > mouseDoubleDown > mouseDoubleUp > mouseDown > mouseUp > mouseDoubleDown > mouseDoubleUp > > i.e. You will get an alternating sequence of down/up and doubleDown/doubleUp pairs. > > Solution: If you don't need to handle double clicks do: > > on mouseDoubleDown > mouseDown > end mouseDoubleDown > > on mouseDoubleUp > mouseUp > end mouseDoubleUp > > This is a long standing (i.e. forever!) 'the way things work' in LiveCode - although I think there is a way it could be a great deal better, and more intuitive. > > The only use of multi-click 'gestures' (which is what 'double clicks' are) which makes sense from a UI interaction point of view is where each click builds upon the action of the previous one. > > e.g. In Finder: > > 1) The first click selects a file > 2) The second click runs the file (which is already selected at this point) > > e.g. In Text Editors: > > 1) The first click places the caret > 2) The second click selects the word the caret is in > 3) The third click selects the line the word is in > > Thus, one possible improvement would be to ditch the 'double' messages entirely, and add a 'clickCount' event property (a bit like the clickLoc) which returns the number of subsequent clicks. This would mean that (in a mouseDown / Up) handler you just choose what you do based on the clickCount. This means you can easily handle single, double or triple click sequences (which, I think is pretty much as far as you can stretch that particular bit of physical interaction - unless you want to cause the user significant problems in using your UI). i.e. In a double click scenario you would get: > > mouseDown (clickCount == 1) > mouseUp (clickCount == 1) > mouseDown (clickCount == 2) > mouseUp (clickCount == 2) > > This can be further built upon by introducing the idea of gestures. A 'click' is actually a gesture, not an event - i.e. it is a precise sequence of events which can be interpreted as a specific type of action. Introducing gestures you'd get the following message sequence: > > mouseDown (clickCount == 1) > mouseUp (clickCount == 1) > click (clickCount == 1) > mouseDown (clickCount == 2) > mouseUp (clickCount == 2) > doubleClick (clickCount == 2) > if passed then click (clickCount == 2) > > For what its worth, LiveCode Builder uses the clickCount model (i.e. no double messages) - although we haven't added 'gestures' there yet. > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > > -- > Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ > LiveCode: Everyone can create apps > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From brahma at hindu.org Wed Aug 3 22:35:40 2016 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 02:35:40 +0000 Subject: Set DoubleClickInterval very low! In-Reply-To: References: <47cbb531-35bd-9e53-7aad-828333ace41f@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: @ Mark Thank you for the explanation. I would have to study this out more to reply with anything more intelligent. Suffice it to say that set the doubleClickInterval to 100 Immediately turned our new app into a "snappy responsive" animal. Which is good, because the prevailing thought was beginning to become "Livecode is really to slow for mobile." when in fact, we just need to understand how to optimize things. I will try adding the mouseDoubleDown and mouseDoubleUp traps you suggest to our main API.lc backscript for all stacks in the framework. We will face the requirement to taking action on a double click when that time comes. Our current multi-stack, module framework would allow us to simply set it for a given context and reset when leaving that context. So far I'm not seeing a single use case for a double click all our stacks. I like your click count idea! BR On 8/3/16, 1:55 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Mark Waddingham" wrote: Solution: If you don't need to handle double clicks do: on mouseDoubleDown mouseDown end mouseDoubleDown on mouseDoubleUp mouseUp end mouseDoubleUp This is a long standing (i.e. forever!) 'the way things work' in LiveCode - although I think there is a way it could be a great deal better, and more intuitive. From brahma at hindu.org Thu Aug 4 02:42:06 2016 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 06:42:06 +0000 Subject: error Previous request not completed Message-ID: how do we clear this so that we can initiate a network connection again? If one is working on a complex script and gets a URL or something wrong, then the upload attempt fails and we start getting this in the result, from libURL (it is not among the lines of the scriptExecutionErrors) error Previous request not completed So how do we re-initialize libURL? BR From charles at techstrategies.com.au Thu Aug 4 02:50:50 2016 From: charles at techstrategies.com.au (Charles Warwick) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 16:50:50 +1000 Subject: error Previous request not completed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3ac0edeb-11c5-62f1-10ca-1409c0aa9e30@techstrategies.com.au> On 4/08/2016 4:42 pm, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote: > how do we clear this so that we can initiate a network connection again? To completely reset libUrl, there is a command libUrlResetAll that should reset all networking connections. If you are using libUrl with tsNet, and you want to close a single connection that has stalled, use: tsNetCloseConn > If one is working on a complex script and gets a URL or something wrong, then the upload attempt fails and we start getting this in the result, from libURL (it is not among the lines of the scriptExecutionErrors) > > error Previous request not completed > If this is new in DP3, that sounds like it is possibly a bug in tsNet that needs to be addressed. Can you provide any more details on when this happens? Regards, Charles > > So how do we re-initialize libURL? > > > > BR > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From mark at livecode.com Thu Aug 4 03:02:06 2016 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 08:02:06 +0100 Subject: Set DoubleClickInterval very low! In-Reply-To: <5EE1B0F5-C682-4506-BC91-0273E412C20B@gmail.com> References: <47cbb531-35bd-9e53-7aad-828333ace41f@fourthworld.com> <5EE1B0F5-C682-4506-BC91-0273E412C20B@gmail.com> Message-ID: <41D02FD9-B0A2-4298-9592-F1D472DAA466@livecode.com> In order for you to be able to do completely different things on click and double click you need to wait and see if a double click occurs before the doubleClickInterval and if it does not *then* do the single click action. After all, the engine is not clairvoyant. This is why click then double click should always be an incremental and related action - unless you want a pause in processing the single click. Mark. Sent from my iPhone > On 4 Aug 2016, at 03:14, Peter M. Brigham wrote: > > So I must not be understanding this. If you want something to happen on mouseup and something else to happen on mousedoubleup, then how do you do it? > > If I put this into a button script: > > on mousedown > put "mousedown" & cr after fld "text" > end mousedown > > on mouseUp > put "mouseup" & cr after fld "text" > end mouseUp > > on mousedoubledown > put "mousedoubledown" & cr after fld "text" > end mousedoubledown > > on mousedoubleup > put "mousedoubleup" & cr after fld "text" > end mousedoubleup > > and I then do a doubleclick, I get > > mousedown > mouseup > mousedoubledown > mousedoubleup > > in fld "text". So far so good. if I comment out the actions in the mousedown and mouseup handlers, so they are effectively blocking those messages, I get > > mousedoubledown > mousedoubleup > > in the field. But how do I get > > mousedown > mouseup > > on a single click and *only* > > mousedoubledown > mousedoubleup > > on a doubleclick? > > It seems to me that if a doubleclick always produces both a mousedown/up and mousedoubledown/up set of messages, there is no way of preventing the mousedown/up actions happening in addition to the mousedoubledown/up actions. To make it clearer: > > on mouseup > show grc "test1" > end mouseup > > on mousedoubleup > show grc "test2" > end mousedoubleup > > the mousedoubleup action will always show both graphics, but I want it to only show grc "test2". > > ??? > > -- Peter > > Peter M. Brigham > pmbrig at gmail.com > > > >> On Aug 3, 2016, at 7:55 PM, Mark Waddingham wrote: >> >>> On 2016-08-04 01:32, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote: >>> How is it a bug? logically the engine must wait for the double click >>> interval before responding or double clicks could never be passed? >>> N'est ce pas? >> >> No - that isn't how double clicks work in LiveCode. >> >> On the first mouseDown the engine: >> >> 1) Stores the time of the mouseDown (last-click-time) >> 2) Stores the location of the mouseDown (last-click-loc) >> 3) Dispatches mouseDown >> >> On a subsequent mouseDown the engine does the following: >> >> if current-click-time - last-click-time < doubleClickInterval and \ >> abs(current-click-loc.x - click-loc.x) < doubleClickDelta and \ >> abs(current-click-loc.y - click-loc.y) < doubleClickDelta then >> dispatch mouseDoubleDown >> else >> dispatch mouseDown >> end if >> >> i.e. If a click is within the doubleClickInterval time-wise since the last click, and within the doubleClickDelta distance since the last click a mouseDoubleDown message is sent instead of mouseDown. >> >> (Note that if a mouse down event results in a mouseDown message, then you will receive a mouseUp message when the mouse is released, and if a mouse down even results in a mouseDoubleDown message, then you will receive a mouseDoubleUp message when the mouse is released). >> >> What you are seeing is the fact that if you tap quickly (i.e. each one within the doubleClickInterval and close to each other on the screen) then you will receive: >> >> mouseDown >> mouseUp >> mouseDoubleDown >> mouseDoubleUp >> mouseDown >> mouseUp >> mouseDoubleDown >> mouseDoubleUp >> >> i.e. You will get an alternating sequence of down/up and doubleDown/doubleUp pairs. >> >> Solution: If you don't need to handle double clicks do: >> >> on mouseDoubleDown >> mouseDown >> end mouseDoubleDown >> >> on mouseDoubleUp >> mouseUp >> end mouseDoubleUp >> >> This is a long standing (i.e. forever!) 'the way things work' in LiveCode - although I think there is a way it could be a great deal better, and more intuitive. >> >> The only use of multi-click 'gestures' (which is what 'double clicks' are) which makes sense from a UI interaction point of view is where each click builds upon the action of the previous one. >> >> e.g. In Finder: >> >> 1) The first click selects a file >> 2) The second click runs the file (which is already selected at this point) >> >> e.g. In Text Editors: >> >> 1) The first click places the caret >> 2) The second click selects the word the caret is in >> 3) The third click selects the line the word is in >> >> Thus, one possible improvement would be to ditch the 'double' messages entirely, and add a 'clickCount' event property (a bit like the clickLoc) which returns the number of subsequent clicks. This would mean that (in a mouseDown / Up) handler you just choose what you do based on the clickCount. This means you can easily handle single, double or triple click sequences (which, I think is pretty much as far as you can stretch that particular bit of physical interaction - unless you want to cause the user significant problems in using your UI). i.e. In a double click scenario you would get: >> >> mouseDown (clickCount == 1) >> mouseUp (clickCount == 1) >> mouseDown (clickCount == 2) >> mouseUp (clickCount == 2) >> >> This can be further built upon by introducing the idea of gestures. A 'click' is actually a gesture, not an event - i.e. it is a precise sequence of events which can be interpreted as a specific type of action. Introducing gestures you'd get the following message sequence: >> >> mouseDown (clickCount == 1) >> mouseUp (clickCount == 1) >> click (clickCount == 1) >> mouseDown (clickCount == 2) >> mouseUp (clickCount == 2) >> doubleClick (clickCount == 2) >> if passed then click (clickCount == 2) >> >> For what its worth, LiveCode Builder uses the clickCount model (i.e. no double messages) - although we haven't added 'gestures' there yet. >> >> Warmest Regards, >> >> Mark. >> >> -- >> Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ >> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mark at livecode.com Thu Aug 4 03:07:09 2016 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 08:07:09 +0100 Subject: Set DoubleClickInterval very low! In-Reply-To: <09b91992-ac19-d6d7-04e8-7a1f1295d16f@fourthworld.com> References: <09b91992-ac19-d6d7-04e8-7a1f1295d16f@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <5EE83828-EF5B-4DED-8B97-61EB501490FA@livecode.com> All I was pointing out was that the current mechanism means you need to put in shim doubleMouse handlers in the controls which don't respond to double clicks *and* you have to write more code if you want to handle triple click. A simpler pattern (I think at least) is the one I suggested where you get no doubleMouse messages but can get easily how many clicks have occurred in the current sequence. This topic I think has come up several times over the years which suggests that the current behavior isn't perhaps the most obvious (and is ever so slightly misleading) however, admittedly, it is perhaps less important than other things if only because it is all scriptable - you just need to think how to script it. Mark. Sent from my iPhone > On 4 Aug 2016, at 01:35, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > Mark Waddingham wrote: > > > On 2016-08-04 01:32, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote: > >> How is it a bug? logically the engine must wait for the double click > >> interval before responding or double clicks could never be passed? > >> N'est ce pas? > > > > No - that isn't how double clicks work in LiveCode. > > I think LC's implementation is similar to how most OSes handle it, at least judging from the old Inside Mac details on click interval and slop rect, and the XP refs I used to read. > > Given that, I'm not sure we need to have you spend time away from other tasks to explore this: > > > This is a long standing (i.e. forever!) 'the way things work' in > > LiveCode - although I think there is a way it could be a great deal > > better, and more intuitive. > > > > The only use of multi-click 'gestures' (which is what 'double clicks' > > are) which makes sense from a UI interaction point of view is where > > each > > click builds upon the action of the previous one. > > > > e.g. In Finder: > > > > 1) The first click selects a file > > 2) The second click runs the file (which is already selected at > > this point) > > > > e.g. In Text Editors: > > > > 1) The first click places the caret > > 2) The second click selects the word the caret is in > > 3) The third click selects the line the word is in > > Those are both very good examples of the noun+verb interaction model for applying commands to object in WOMPs, which personally I feel is reasonably well supported in LC as it is. > > In brief, we first select an object (noun), and then perform an action on it (verb). > > Often the action is a command chosen from a menu, which would then act on whatever we'd selected. But sometimes a shortcut is provided for a menu action, such as in these examples with a second click. > > In practice it's extremely rare that we find any object that truly supports different actions on both single and double-clicks. > > The Finder example *seems* at first glance like such a case, but as we think about it more it becomes clear that no action ever takes place on the first click, it's always just a selection; the second click is the action, and which action it is will depend on the time/space constraints from the first click. > > Given all this, there may be other benefits to the proposed enhancements you outlined, but so far it seems all practical needs for supporting single- and double-clicks have been handled well with LC's current mouse messages. > > Indeed, for the rare case when one truly wants a single object to support actions on both single- and double-clicks, we've seen examples from the readers here of how we can keep track of the time between clicks to support even that edge case. > > Whether we keep track of the interval or the click count makes no difference to me, but with the latter we'd still need to maintain an awareness of the interval anyway, and best of all the current model is already done and ready to use. :) > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From lyn.teyla at gmail.com Thu Aug 4 04:31:38 2016 From: lyn.teyla at gmail.com (Lyn Teyla) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 10:31:38 +0200 Subject: Extracting list of errors from LiveCode 8 In-Reply-To: <5EE83828-EF5B-4DED-8B97-61EB501490FA@livecode.com> References: <09b91992-ac19-d6d7-04e8-7a1f1295d16f@fourthworld.com> <5EE83828-EF5B-4DED-8B97-61EB501490FA@livecode.com> Message-ID: <3A2B722A-4CAB-4E03-8B2D-5C3312A56079@gmail.com> Hi all, In LiveCode 7 and earlier, one could use the following to extract the list of errors: the cErrorsList of cd 1 of stack "revErrorDisplay" However, this no longer works in LiveCode 8. What is the new method of extracting the list of errors? TIA, Lyn From th.douez at gmail.com Thu Aug 4 04:53:49 2016 From: th.douez at gmail.com (Thierry Douez) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 10:53:49 +0200 Subject: Extracting list of errors from LiveCode 8 In-Reply-To: <3A2B722A-4CAB-4E03-8B2D-5C3312A56079@gmail.com> References: <09b91992-ac19-d6d7-04e8-7a1f1295d16f@fourthworld.com> <5EE83828-EF5B-4DED-8B97-61EB501490FA@livecode.com> <3A2B722A-4CAB-4E03-8B2D-5C3312A56079@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Lyn, within LC 8.0, this works: *put* the cErrorsList of stack "revErrorDisplay" ?Regards, Thierry ? > In LiveCode 7 and earlier, one could use the following to extract the list > of errors: > > the cErrorsList of cd 1 of stack "revErrorDisplay" > > However, this no longer works in LiveCode 8. > > What is the new method of extracting the list of errors? > > TIA, > Lyn > > ------------------------------------------------ Thierry Douez - http://sunny-tdz.com sunnYrex - sunnYtext2speech - sunnYperl - sunnYmidi - sunnYmage From dave at applicationinsight.com Thu Aug 4 04:54:15 2016 From: dave at applicationinsight.com (Dave Kilroy) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 09:54:15 +0100 Subject: Ideas for LiveCode workshops - help needed Message-ID: This is a request for ideas for LiveCode workshops That is, where one of us is organising a day-long workshop on LiveCode and are looking for a main topic for the day. I?m not looking for fully-worked up teaching resources (although that would be nice), but general ideas or topics for the workshop - so that we can say to people, and publicise ?come to this LiveCode workshop where we will build ?? or ?at this LiveCode workshop you will learn how to ??. In the past I?ve done LiveCode workshops where the main idea has been: - build a mobile messaging app (that connects to a web service and mysql database) - build desktop widgets (little things like an app that watches a folder, using the clipboard etc) - learn how to search documents and save notes with LiveCode I think my ideal would be to get an idea which is: - a ?draw? (afterall I want lots of people to turn up!), something like ?learn now to connect to the Pokemon Go! API? - doesn?t involve me doing too too much preparation work for the workshop - can give a positive experience to participants with differing levels of ability (perhaps by my preparing some partly completed exercises for those who need them) So, ideas and suggestions please! Kind regards Dave PS: my next workshop is on 17th September and I haven?t decided what to go in it http://www.meetup.com/The-THINQTANQ-Events-Meetups-and-More-in-Plymouth/events/226749341/ PPS: ask potential participants what the workshop topic should be usually doesn?t help much! From lyn.teyla at gmail.com Thu Aug 4 05:29:03 2016 From: lyn.teyla at gmail.com (Lyn Teyla) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 11:29:03 +0200 Subject: Extracting list of errors from LiveCode 8 In-Reply-To: References: <09b91992-ac19-d6d7-04e8-7a1f1295d16f@fourthworld.com> <5EE83828-EF5B-4DED-8B97-61EB501490FA@livecode.com> <3A2B722A-4CAB-4E03-8B2D-5C3312A56079@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thierry Douez wrote: > within LC 8.0, this works: > > *put* the cErrorsList of stack "revErrorDisplay" Thanks Thierry! However, this doesn?t seem to work with 8.0.2 RC 4 and 8.1.0 DP 3. Lyn From ali.lloyd at livecode.com Thu Aug 4 05:59:17 2016 From: ali.lloyd at livecode.com (Ali Lloyd) Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2016 09:59:17 +0000 Subject: Extracting list of errors from LiveCode 8 In-Reply-To: References: <09b91992-ac19-d6d7-04e8-7a1f1295d16f@fourthworld.com> <5EE83828-EF5B-4DED-8B97-61EB501490FA@livecode.com> <3A2B722A-4CAB-4E03-8B2D-5C3312A56079@gmail.com> Message-ID: You can use the global property the scriptExecutionErrors To obtain this list. Note that this does not work in a standalone so if you need it you'll have to set a custom property on an included stack or something like that. On Thu, 4 Aug 2016 at 10:29, Lyn Teyla wrote: > Thierry Douez wrote: > > > within LC 8.0, this works: > > > > *put* the cErrorsList of stack "revErrorDisplay" > > > Thanks Thierry! > > However, this doesn?t seem to work with 8.0.2 RC 4 and 8.1.0 DP 3. > > Lyn > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From devin_asay at byu.edu Thu Aug 4 06:02:06 2016 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 10:02:06 +0000 Subject: Ideas for LiveCode workshops - help needed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1581DC6A-35AF-41AB-931F-80DED46EC4D3@byu.edu> > On Aug 4, 2016, at 2:54 AM, Dave Kilroy wrote: > > This is a request for ideas for LiveCode workshops > > That is, where one of us is organising a day-long workshop on LiveCode and are looking for a main topic for the day. > > I?m not looking for fully-worked up teaching resources (although that would be nice), but general ideas or topics for the workshop - so that we can say to people, and publicise ?come to this LiveCode workshop where we will build ?? or ?at this LiveCode workshop you will learn how to ??. > > In the past I?ve done LiveCode workshops where the main idea has been: > - build a mobile messaging app (that connects to a web service and mysql database) > - build desktop widgets (little things like an app that watches a folder, using the clipboard etc) > - learn how to search documents and save notes with LiveCode > > I think my ideal would be to get an idea which is: > - a ?draw? (afterall I want lots of people to turn up!), something like ?learn now to connect to the Pokemon Go! API? > - doesn?t involve me doing too too much preparation work for the workshop > - can give a positive experience to participants with differing levels of ability (perhaps by my preparing some partly completed exercises for those who need them) > > So, ideas and suggestions please! Dave, I?ve done this a lot over the years, and you?re right, settling on a compelling app to create during the workshop is key. These are some of the ideas I?ve used: - A drag and drop matching game. - A to-do list app. - A simple e-reader app. - A walking tour app with a map with interactive sites that you can click for additional information and photos, etc. Hope this helps. Devin Devin Asay Learn to code with LiveCode University https://livecode.com/store/education/ From rjd318 at gmail.com Thu Aug 4 07:21:00 2016 From: rjd318 at gmail.com (rjd318) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 06:21:00 -0500 Subject: Ideas for LiveCode workshops - help needed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2741D303-5BC3-4B3B-9F88-BC7BE2FA3FA7@gmail.com> Yikes! My eyes widened when I saw that you did a workshop previously on a messaging app utilizing a web service and MySQL since that is what I woke up this morning thinking about learning how to do ? Do you have the materials or stacks available for us to look at? Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 4, 2016, at 3:54 AM, Dave Kilroy wrote: > > This is a request for ideas for LiveCode workshops > > That is, where one of us is organising a day-long workshop on LiveCode and are looking for a main topic for the day. > > I?m not looking for fully-worked up teaching resources (although that would be nice), but general ideas or topics for the workshop - so that we can say to people, and publicise ?come to this LiveCode workshop where we will build ?? or ?at this LiveCode workshop you will learn how to ??. > > In the past I?ve done LiveCode workshops where the main idea has been: > - build a mobile messaging app (that connects to a web service and mysql database) > - build desktop widgets (little things like an app that watches a folder, using the clipboard etc) > - learn how to search documents and save notes with LiveCode > > I think my ideal would be to get an idea which is: > - a ?draw? (afterall I want lots of people to turn up!), something like ?learn now to connect to the Pokemon Go! API? > - doesn?t involve me doing too too much preparation work for the workshop > - can give a positive experience to participants with differing levels of ability (perhaps by my preparing some partly completed exercises for those who need them) > > So, ideas and suggestions please! > > Kind regards > > Dave > > PS: my next workshop is on 17th September and I haven?t decided what to go in it http://www.meetup.com/The-THINQTANQ-Events-Meetups-and-More-in-Plymouth/events/226749341/ > PPS: ask potential participants what the workshop topic should be usually doesn?t help much! > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From devin_asay at byu.edu Thu Aug 4 07:24:40 2016 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 11:24:40 +0000 Subject: Ideas for LiveCode workshops - help needed In-Reply-To: <2741D303-5BC3-4B3B-9F88-BC7BE2FA3FA7@gmail.com> References: <2741D303-5BC3-4B3B-9F88-BC7BE2FA3FA7@gmail.com> Message-ID: <01E1E68B-A89E-4894-9DB4-319C94BBC962@byu.edu> If you can remind me of when I did that I can try to find the materials. ;-) > On Aug 4, 2016, at 5:21 AM, rjd318 wrote: > > Yikes! My eyes widened when I saw that you did a workshop previously on a messaging app utilizing a web service and MySQL since that is what I woke up this morning thinking about learning how to do ? Do you have the materials or stacks available for us to look at? > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 4, 2016, at 3:54 AM, Dave Kilroy wrote: >> >> This is a request for ideas for LiveCode workshops >> >> That is, where one of us is organising a day-long workshop on LiveCode and are looking for a main topic for the day. >> >> I?m not looking for fully-worked up teaching resources (although that would be nice), but general ideas or topics for the workshop - so that we can say to people, and publicise ?come to this LiveCode workshop where we will build ?? or ?at this LiveCode workshop you will learn how to ??. >> >> In the past I?ve done LiveCode workshops where the main idea has been: >> - build a mobile messaging app (that connects to a web service and mysql database) >> - build desktop widgets (little things like an app that watches a folder, using the clipboard etc) >> - learn how to search documents and save notes with LiveCode >> >> I think my ideal would be to get an idea which is: >> - a ?draw? (afterall I want lots of people to turn up!), something like ?learn now to connect to the Pokemon Go! API? >> - doesn?t involve me doing too too much preparation work for the workshop >> - can give a positive experience to participants with differing levels of ability (perhaps by my preparing some partly completed exercises for those who need them) >> >> So, ideas and suggestions please! >> >> Kind regards >> >> Dave >> >> PS: my next workshop is on 17th September and I haven?t decided what to go in it http://www.meetup.com/The-THINQTANQ-Events-Meetups-and-More-in-Plymouth/events/226749341/ >> PPS: ask potential participants what the workshop topic should be usually doesn?t help much! >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode Devin Asay Learn to code with LiveCode University https://livecode.com/store/education/ From jbv at souslelogo.com Thu Aug 4 07:35:30 2016 From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 13:35:30 +0200 Subject: Standalone randomly crashes on Win 7 & 10 Message-ID: <3a2d2ac1bcd471788f3b045f5d9c7cdd.squirrel@sage.on-rev.com> Hi list One of my clients experiences random crashes on Win 7 & 10 with a standalone built with LC Community 6.5.2. The same standalone built for Mac simultaneously with the Win version never crashes... I also have other apps built with the same LC version and used by other clients on Win 7, 8 and 10 that never crash. I can't really make tests of my own, because they have a very specific activity, like updating a remote DB with some very specific data I don't have access to. So I asked them to forward me all info they can get with Event Viewer. But it's not very sophisticated : it only mentions error 1001 for that app, which means "application crashed"... As all users of the standalone have also Avast installed on their PC, and since Avast already caused troubles in the past with other LC apps and other clients, I suspect it's something worth to explore, although I can't be 100% sure. So my question(s) : - are there other tools on Windows that could give more accurate info about the cause of the crashes - is there any specific debugging strategy in that case ? Thanks in advance jbv From rman at free.fr Thu Aug 4 07:05:40 2016 From: rman at free.fr (Robert Mann) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 04:05:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Ideas for LiveCode workshops - help needed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1470308740468-4707241.post@n4.nabble.com> How about something really down to earth? >> a simple database, like filemaker, that help dealing with day to day web >> research : ? grab web pages picture and the link, ? allow to write notes & emails ? and basic search & ordering functions. or is filemaker simpler to set and use than livecode?? ah ah!! -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Ideas-for-LiveCode-workshops-help-needed-tp4707234p4707241.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From dunbarx at aol.com Thu Aug 4 08:57:37 2016 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx at aol.com) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 08:57:37 -0400 Subject: Ideas for LiveCode workshops - help needed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <15655a16a49-1c9-1da@webprd-a39.mail.aol.com> Hi. It sounds like the workshops are intermediate-level and above, for those with considerable experience with LC already. True? Craig Newman -----Original Message----- From: Dave Kilroy To: How to use LiveCode Sent: Thu, Aug 4, 2016 4:55 am Subject: Ideas for LiveCode workshops - help needed This is a request for ideas for LiveCode workshopsThat is, where one of us is organising a day-long workshop on LiveCode and are looking for a main topic for the day.I?m not looking for fully-worked up teaching resources (although that would be nice), but general ideas or topics for the workshop - so that we can say to people, and publicise ?come to this LiveCode workshop where we will build ?? or ?at this LiveCode workshop you will learn how to ??. In the past I?ve done LiveCode workshops where the main idea has been:- build a mobile messaging app (that connects to a web service and mysql database)- build desktop widgets (little things like an app that watches a folder, using the clipboard etc)- learn how to search documents and save notes with LiveCodeI think my ideal would be to get an idea which is:- a ?draw? (afterall I want lots of people to turn up!), something like ?learn now to connect to the Pokemon Go! API?- doesn?t involve me doing too too much preparation work for the workshop- can give a positive experience to participants with differing levels of ability (perhaps by my preparing some partly completed exercises for those who need them) So, ideas and suggestions please!Kind regardsDavePS: my next workshop is on 17th September and I haven?t decided what to go in it http://www.meetup.com/The-THINQTANQ-Events-Meetups-and-More-in-Plymouth/events/226749341/ PPS: ask potential participants what the workshop topic should be usually doesn?t help much!_______________________________________________use-livecode mailing listuse-livecode at lists.runrev.comPlease visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Thu Aug 4 09:44:05 2016 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 09:44:05 -0400 Subject: conference news Message-ID: so is there a network or cell failure in Edinburgh? I haven't heard a peep -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From merakosp at gmail.com Thu Aug 4 09:48:39 2016 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 16:48:39 +0300 Subject: conference news In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: What kind of problem are you seeing? Is there any problem in the streaming? On Thu, Aug 4, 2016 at 4:44 PM, Mike Kerner wrote: > so is there a network or cell failure in Edinburgh? I haven't heard a peep > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From paul at researchware.com Thu Aug 4 09:54:20 2016 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2016 09:54:20 -0400 Subject: conference news In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <57A3490C.2000909@researchware.com> I'm watching the streams right now and they both fine here in the northeast US. On 8/4/2016 9:48 AM, panagiotis merakos wrote: > What kind of problem are you seeing? Is there any problem in the streaming? > > > > On Thu, Aug 4, 2016 at 4:44 PM, Mike Kerner > wrote: > >> so is there a network or cell failure in Edinburgh? I haven't heard a peep >> >> -- >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >> On the second day, God created the oceans. >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >> and did a little diving. >> And God said, "This is good." >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From skiplondon at gmail.com Thu Aug 4 10:00:05 2016 From: skiplondon at gmail.com (Skip Kimpel) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 10:00:05 -0400 Subject: LC 8 on Windows In-Reply-To: References: <57816F00.9060407@fourthworld.com> <60144de7-6525-e95c-64e5-5fe26e298561@tweedly.net> Message-ID: Finally determined it was PowerPlug that was causing all the problems in version 8. Everything seems to be working good now that it is no longer in my plugin folder. SKIP On Sun, Jul 10, 2016 at 11:12 AM, Mike Bonner wrote: > I don't have time to do it today but heres some possible pseudocode for a > tool that would help. > > get revEnvironmentUserPluginsPath() -- the path to the users plugins > folder > click a button to move that folder to a new location (thereby removing all > user plugins in one fel swoop) > re-create an empty plugins folder where it belongs. > > At this point in use you would want to restart lc so that its fresh and > any autostart plugins are out of memory > > Next, populate a list of plugins that exist in the moved plugin folder > > Choose a plugin, get its short name and store it for later use then.. > revcopy it back to the users plugin folder > call revideupdateplugins > call revideopenplugin storedstackname > > At this point the just added plugin back in the system, and active > > Test as needed, then add another back in and test. > > Narrowing down would be faster of course using the binary method others > have mentioned (half at a time) but shouldn't be to bad, and should be > relatively easy to implement. > > > > > > On Sun, Jul 10, 2016 at 5:52 AM, Alex Tweedly wrote: > > > [ this isn't yet a well-formed idea, but I'm sure there could be > something > > ... ] > > > > Could there be a special "plugin diagnostic mode" ? > > > > When it is active, the IDE would > > > > - startup one plugin at a time > > > > - let you use it / try things out > > > > - and then (on some simple command) startup the next one, etc. > > > > -- Alex. > > > > > > > > On 09/07/2016 22:39, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > > >> Skip Kimpel wrote: > >> > >> > After some experimentation based upon what Panos suggested, something > >> > in my plugins folder is causing the issue. Yikes... I have LOTS of > >> > plugins. Any good way of diagnosing the culprit without doing having > >> > to drop my plugins one by one? > >> > >> By halves. > >> > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Thu Aug 4 10:04:09 2016 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 10:04:09 -0400 Subject: conference news In-Reply-To: <57A3490C.2000909@researchware.com> References: <57A3490C.2000909@researchware.com> Message-ID: No, I am doing other work things. I was hoping that someone was posting thoughts, summaries, etc. On Thu, Aug 4, 2016 at 9:54 AM, Paul Dupuis wrote: > I'm watching the streams right now and they both fine here in the > northeast US. > > On 8/4/2016 9:48 AM, panagiotis merakos wrote: > > What kind of problem are you seeing? Is there any problem in the > streaming? > > > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 4, 2016 at 4:44 PM, Mike Kerner > > wrote: > > > >> so is there a network or cell failure in Edinburgh? I haven't heard a > peep > >> > >> -- > >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > >> On the second day, God created the oceans. > >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > >> and did a little diving. > >> And God said, "This is good." > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From paul at researchware.com Thu Aug 4 10:13:49 2016 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2016 10:13:49 -0400 Subject: conference news In-Reply-To: References: <57A3490C.2000909@researchware.com> Message-ID: <57A34D9D.8070500@researchware.com> Probably won't see much commentary until after the conference is over later today. On 8/4/2016 10:04 AM, Mike Kerner wrote: > No, I am doing other work things. I was hoping that someone was posting > thoughts, summaries, etc. > > On Thu, Aug 4, 2016 at 9:54 AM, Paul Dupuis wrote: > >> I'm watching the streams right now and they both fine here in the >> northeast US. >> >> On 8/4/2016 9:48 AM, panagiotis merakos wrote: >>> What kind of problem are you seeing? Is there any problem in the >> streaming? >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Aug 4, 2016 at 4:44 PM, Mike Kerner >>> wrote: >>> >>>> so is there a network or cell failure in Edinburgh? I haven't heard a >> peep >>>> -- >>>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >>>> On the second day, God created the oceans. >>>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >>>> and did a little diving. >>>> And God said, "This is good." >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > From colinholgate at gmail.com Thu Aug 4 10:23:37 2016 From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 15:23:37 +0100 Subject: conference news In-Reply-To: <57A34D9D.8070500@researchware.com> References: <57A3490C.2000909@researchware.com> <57A34D9D.8070500@researchware.com> Message-ID: We?re all paying attention! > On Aug 4, 2016, at 3:13 PM, Paul Dupuis wrote: > > Probably won't see much commentary until after the conference is over > later today. > > On 8/4/2016 10:04 AM, Mike Kerner wrote: >> No, I am doing other work things. I was hoping that someone was posting >> thoughts, summaries, etc. >> >> On Thu, Aug 4, 2016 at 9:54 AM, Paul Dupuis wrote: >> >>> I'm watching the streams right now and they both fine here in the >>> northeast US. >>> >>> On 8/4/2016 9:48 AM, panagiotis merakos wrote: >>>> What kind of problem are you seeing? Is there any problem in the >>> streaming? >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Aug 4, 2016 at 4:44 PM, Mike Kerner >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> so is there a network or cell failure in Edinburgh? I haven't heard a >>> peep >>>>> -- >>>>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >>>>> On the second day, God created the oceans. >>>>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >>>>> and did a little diving. >>>>> And God said, "This is good." >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From harrison at all-auctions.com Thu Aug 4 10:24:50 2016 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 10:24:50 -0400 Subject: Ideas for LiveCode workshops - help needed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Dave, A simple one might be on how to use the new dictionary interface to find anything one might be looking for. ;-) Hope that helps! Rick > On Aug 4, 2016, at 4:54 AM, Dave Kilroy wrote: > > This is a request for ideas for LiveCode workshops > > That is, where one of us is organising a day-long workshop on LiveCode and are looking for a main topic for the day. > > I?m not looking for fully-worked up teaching resources (although that would be nice), but general ideas or topics for the workshop - so that we can say to people, and publicise ?come to this LiveCode workshop where we will build ?? or ?at this LiveCode workshop you will learn how to ??. > > In the past I?ve done LiveCode workshops where the main idea has been: > - build a mobile messaging app (that connects to a web service and mysql database) > - build desktop widgets (little things like an app that watches a folder, using the clipboard etc) > - learn how to search documents and save notes with LiveCode > > I think my ideal would be to get an idea which is: > - a ?draw? (afterall I want lots of people to turn up!), something like ?learn now to connect to the Pokemon Go! API? > - doesn?t involve me doing too too much preparation work for the workshop > - can give a positive experience to participants with differing levels of ability (perhaps by my preparing some partly completed exercises for those who need them) > > So, ideas and suggestions please! > > Kind regards > > Dave > > PS: my next workshop is on 17th September and I haven?t decided what to go in it http://www.meetup.com/The-THINQTANQ-Events-Meetups-and-More-in-Plymouth/events/226749341/ > PPS: ask potential participants what the workshop topic should be usually doesn?t help much! > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From pmbrig at gmail.com Thu Aug 4 10:43:45 2016 From: pmbrig at gmail.com (Peter M. Brigham) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 10:43:45 -0400 Subject: Set DoubleClickInterval very low! In-Reply-To: <41D02FD9-B0A2-4298-9592-F1D472DAA466@livecode.com> References: <47cbb531-35bd-9e53-7aad-828333ace41f@fourthworld.com> <5EE1B0F5-C682-4506-BC91-0273E412C20B@gmail.com> <41D02FD9-B0A2-4298-9592-F1D472DAA466@livecode.com> Message-ID: <66E598BB-5366-456E-8008-8E3C6EC2151F@gmail.com> That's what I thought. The engine is certainly not clairvoyant. I can script around this. I was hoping that the newer LC versions had somehow made it easier to do different things with single and double clicks, since I'm not sure why you would ever want a doubleclick to default to including the single click action too. Your ideas for fixing this with the clickcount method sound good, as it would allow the engine to sort out the clicks so as to obviate the need for additional scripting. -- Peter Peter M. Brigham pmbrig at gmail.com On Aug 4, 2016, at 3:02 AM, Mark Waddingham wrote: > In order for you to be able to do completely different things on click and double click you need to wait and see if a double click occurs before the doubleClickInterval and if it does not *then* do the single click action. After all, the engine is not clairvoyant. > > This is why click then double click should always be an incremental and related action - unless you want a pause in processing the single click. > > Mark. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On 4 Aug 2016, at 03:14, Peter M. Brigham wrote: >> >> So I must not be understanding this. If you want something to happen on mouseup and something else to happen on mousedoubleup, then how do you do it? >> >> If I put this into a button script: >> >> on mousedown >> put "mousedown" & cr after fld "text" >> end mousedown >> >> on mouseUp >> put "mouseup" & cr after fld "text" >> end mouseUp >> >> on mousedoubledown >> put "mousedoubledown" & cr after fld "text" >> end mousedoubledown >> >> on mousedoubleup >> put "mousedoubleup" & cr after fld "text" >> end mousedoubleup >> >> and I then do a doubleclick, I get >> >> mousedown >> mouseup >> mousedoubledown >> mousedoubleup >> >> in fld "text". So far so good. if I comment out the actions in the mousedown and mouseup handlers, so they are effectively blocking those messages, I get >> >> mousedoubledown >> mousedoubleup >> >> in the field. But how do I get >> >> mousedown >> mouseup >> >> on a single click and *only* >> >> mousedoubledown >> mousedoubleup >> >> on a doubleclick? >> >> It seems to me that if a doubleclick always produces both a mousedown/up and mousedoubledown/up set of messages, there is no way of preventing the mousedown/up actions happening in addition to the mousedoubledown/up actions. To make it clearer: >> >> on mouseup >> show grc "test1" >> end mouseup >> >> on mousedoubleup >> show grc "test2" >> end mousedoubleup >> >> the mousedoubleup action will always show both graphics, but I want it to only show grc "test2". >> >> ??? >> >> -- Peter >> >> Peter M. Brigham >> pmbrig at gmail.com >> >> >> >>> On Aug 3, 2016, at 7:55 PM, Mark Waddingham wrote: >>> >>>> On 2016-08-04 01:32, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote: >>>> How is it a bug? logically the engine must wait for the double click >>>> interval before responding or double clicks could never be passed? >>>> N'est ce pas? >>> >>> No - that isn't how double clicks work in LiveCode. >>> >>> On the first mouseDown the engine: >>> >>> 1) Stores the time of the mouseDown (last-click-time) >>> 2) Stores the location of the mouseDown (last-click-loc) >>> 3) Dispatches mouseDown >>> >>> On a subsequent mouseDown the engine does the following: >>> >>> if current-click-time - last-click-time < doubleClickInterval and \ >>> abs(current-click-loc.x - click-loc.x) < doubleClickDelta and \ >>> abs(current-click-loc.y - click-loc.y) < doubleClickDelta then >>> dispatch mouseDoubleDown >>> else >>> dispatch mouseDown >>> end if >>> >>> i.e. If a click is within the doubleClickInterval time-wise since the last click, and within the doubleClickDelta distance since the last click a mouseDoubleDown message is sent instead of mouseDown. >>> >>> (Note that if a mouse down event results in a mouseDown message, then you will receive a mouseUp message when the mouse is released, and if a mouse down even results in a mouseDoubleDown message, then you will receive a mouseDoubleUp message when the mouse is released). >>> >>> What you are seeing is the fact that if you tap quickly (i.e. each one within the doubleClickInterval and close to each other on the screen) then you will receive: >>> >>> mouseDown >>> mouseUp >>> mouseDoubleDown >>> mouseDoubleUp >>> mouseDown >>> mouseUp >>> mouseDoubleDown >>> mouseDoubleUp >>> >>> i.e. You will get an alternating sequence of down/up and doubleDown/doubleUp pairs. >>> >>> Solution: If you don't need to handle double clicks do: >>> >>> on mouseDoubleDown >>> mouseDown >>> end mouseDoubleDown >>> >>> on mouseDoubleUp >>> mouseUp >>> end mouseDoubleUp >>> >>> This is a long standing (i.e. forever!) 'the way things work' in LiveCode - although I think there is a way it could be a great deal better, and more intuitive. >>> >>> The only use of multi-click 'gestures' (which is what 'double clicks' are) which makes sense from a UI interaction point of view is where each click builds upon the action of the previous one. >>> >>> e.g. In Finder: >>> >>> 1) The first click selects a file >>> 2) The second click runs the file (which is already selected at this point) >>> >>> e.g. In Text Editors: >>> >>> 1) The first click places the caret >>> 2) The second click selects the word the caret is in >>> 3) The third click selects the line the word is in >>> >>> Thus, one possible improvement would be to ditch the 'double' messages entirely, and add a 'clickCount' event property (a bit like the clickLoc) which returns the number of subsequent clicks. This would mean that (in a mouseDown / Up) handler you just choose what you do based on the clickCount. This means you can easily handle single, double or triple click sequences (which, I think is pretty much as far as you can stretch that particular bit of physical interaction - unless you want to cause the user significant problems in using your UI). i.e. In a double click scenario you would get: >>> >>> mouseDown (clickCount == 1) >>> mouseUp (clickCount == 1) >>> mouseDown (clickCount == 2) >>> mouseUp (clickCount == 2) >>> >>> This can be further built upon by introducing the idea of gestures. A 'click' is actually a gesture, not an event - i.e. it is a precise sequence of events which can be interpreted as a specific type of action. Introducing gestures you'd get the following message sequence: >>> >>> mouseDown (clickCount == 1) >>> mouseUp (clickCount == 1) >>> click (clickCount == 1) >>> mouseDown (clickCount == 2) >>> mouseUp (clickCount == 2) >>> doubleClick (clickCount == 2) >>> if passed then click (clickCount == 2) >>> >>> For what its worth, LiveCode Builder uses the clickCount model (i.e. no double messages) - although we haven't added 'gestures' there yet. >>> >>> Warmest Regards, >>> >>> Mark. >>> >>> -- >>> Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ >>> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Thu Aug 4 10:44:17 2016 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 10:44:17 -0400 Subject: conference news In-Reply-To: References: <57A3490C.2000909@researchware.com> <57A34D9D.8070500@researchware.com> Message-ID: Here on the east coast, the stream is dropping out (pausing) every 5 seconds for about 1 second. It is very annoying. On Thu, Aug 4, 2016 at 10:23 AM, Colin Holgate wrote: > We?re all paying attention! > > > > On Aug 4, 2016, at 3:13 PM, Paul Dupuis wrote: > > > > Probably won't see much commentary until after the conference is over > > later today. > > > > On 8/4/2016 10:04 AM, Mike Kerner wrote: > >> No, I am doing other work things. I was hoping that someone was posting > >> thoughts, summaries, etc. > >> > >> On Thu, Aug 4, 2016 at 9:54 AM, Paul Dupuis > wrote: > >> > >>> I'm watching the streams right now and they both fine here in the > >>> northeast US. > >>> > >>> On 8/4/2016 9:48 AM, panagiotis merakos wrote: > >>>> What kind of problem are you seeing? Is there any problem in the > >>> streaming? > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Thu, Aug 4, 2016 at 4:44 PM, Mike Kerner < > MikeKerner at roadrunner.com> > >>>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> so is there a network or cell failure in Edinburgh? I haven't heard > a > >>> peep > >>>>> -- > >>>>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > >>>>> On the second day, God created the oceans. > >>>>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > >>>>> and did a little diving. > >>>>> And God said, "This is good." > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> use-livecode mailing list > >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >>>>> subscription preferences: > >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >>>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> use-livecode mailing list > >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >>> subscription preferences: > >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >>>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> use-livecode mailing list > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >>> subscription preferences: > >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >>> > >> > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Aug 4 10:48:49 2016 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 07:48:49 -0700 Subject: Set DoubleClickInterval very low! In-Reply-To: <5EE1B0F5-C682-4506-BC91-0273E412C20B@gmail.com> References: <5EE1B0F5-C682-4506-BC91-0273E412C20B@gmail.com> Message-ID: <6122e2e2-5f23-dfaf-e522-2dd819274a32@fourthworld.com> Peter M. Brigham wrote: > So I must not be understanding this. If you want something to happen > on mouseup and something else to happen on mousedoubleup, then how > do you do it? The other question is *why* would you do it? A control usually has an interaction semantics role of either a verb or a noun. A push button, for example, is a verb, performing an action, while a Finder icon is a noun, where it must be selected first and then use some other control as the verb (usually a menu item) to apply an action to it. Sometimes a noun object may also support a shortcut for the verb object, such as a second click on the noun object, but the essential role of the noun object remains fairly consistent throughout the interactions, in which the first click merely selects the object and performs no action. When determining whether a circumstance is an edge case or a common one, I like the rule of three: Can you think of three examples in apps from established vendors like Apple where a control acts as both a verb and a noun, i.e. provides a direct action on a single-click and then a different action on a double-click? In the rare case where this may be useful in a context that doesn't confuse or frustrate the user (accidental double-clicks are not uncommon), the OS routines that differentiate single- and double-clicks would require a pause equal to the OS' doubleClickInterval, as Mark noted: In order for you to be able to do completely different things on click and double click you need to wait and see if a double click occurs before the doubleClickInterval and if it does not *then* do the single click action. After all, the engine is not clairvoyant. This is why click then double click should always be an incremental and related action - unless you want a pause in processing the single click. This has come up a few times on this list over the years, and while I generally try to avoid mixing verb/noun semantics and don't have one handy, I would imagine a search at Nabble may help, or perhaps Michael Doub has already included such an example in his Master Library stack. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Aug 4 10:52:35 2016 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 07:52:35 -0700 Subject: Set DoubleClickInterval very low! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote: > Suffice it to say that > > set the doubleClickInterval to 100 > > Immediately turned our new app into a "snappy responsive" animal. > > Which is good, because the prevailing thought was beginning to become > "Livecode is really to slow for mobile." when in fact, we just need > to understand how to optimize things. That "optimization" should not be needed, for the reasons Mark described. Unless you have some other factor at play there, changing the value of any property not related to an action should never be needed, and should be considered a bug. With a single-click, the doubleClickInterval should be no more relevant than the moveSpeed or anything else unrelated to the action. If this is consistently reproducible please file a bug report. We can't expect newcomers to hunt down all possible combinations of unrelated properties just to make a button respond to a click appropriately. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Aug 4 11:00:02 2016 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 08:00:02 -0700 Subject: Set DoubleClickInterval very low! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <60db0cf6-6dc2-dcf4-d29a-dad854909bd5@fourthworld.com> A moment ago I wrote: > Unless you have some other factor at play there, changing the value > of any property not related to an action should never be needed, and > should be considered a bug. The first clause is key there. I haven't spent much time with iOS yet, and perhaps there's a bug in LC's engine for that platform, but on Android (and all desktop engines) LC responds to single-clicks/taps instantly as expected. Could it be that you have a mouseUp handler, perhaps in a library somewhere, that attempts to differentiate single- and double-clicks for a given object? If so, my earlier notes about the noun+verb interaction semantics may be either helpful or irritating depending on your mood , but moreover reducing the doubleClickInterval below the default OS threshold would result in confusion for the user, in which double-clicks happen far less frequently than they've become accustomed to. I would review your libraries first, and if you have no mouseUp handlers waiting for the doubleClickInterval then I'd file a bug report. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Aug 4 11:03:20 2016 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 08:03:20 -0700 Subject: Ideas for LiveCode workshops - help needed In-Reply-To: <1470308740468-4707241.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1470308740468-4707241.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: Robert Mann wrote: > or is filemaker simpler to set and use than livecode?? ah ah!! I would certainly hope so. FileMaker is a wonderful tool, but is designed to deliver one category of application, a database. LiveCode is a far more flexible tool designed to deliver thousands of categories of applications. If FileMaker were as flexible as LC, it would have to be as complex. But thankfully for their happy users they've focused on just one task, and they do it well. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Aug 4 11:04:57 2016 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 08:04:57 -0700 Subject: Ideas for LiveCode workshops - help needed In-Reply-To: <01E1E68B-A89E-4894-9DB4-319C94BBC962@byu.edu> References: <01E1E68B-A89E-4894-9DB4-319C94BBC962@byu.edu> Message-ID: <305163b8-b3cd-c474-f0db-c53824a2cc77@fourthworld.com> How about a client-server user registration system? Everyone needs one, and in addition to being widely useful it would demonstrate making HTTPS calls from LC clients, server-side DB use, and other things that play an ever more pervasive role in our increasingly cloud-driven world. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From prothero at earthednet.org Thu Aug 4 11:10:20 2016 From: prothero at earthednet.org (Earthednet-wp) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 08:10:20 -0700 Subject: Ideas for LiveCode workshops - help needed In-Reply-To: <305163b8-b3cd-c474-f0db-c53824a2cc77@fourthworld.com> References: <01E1E68B-A89E-4894-9DB4-319C94BBC962@byu.edu> <305163b8-b3cd-c474-f0db-c53824a2cc77@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: An app that interacts with the cloud and/or web services would be of great interest to me. Bill William Prothero http://es.earthednet.org > On Aug 4, 2016, at 8:04 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > How about a client-server user registration system? > > Everyone needs one, and in addition to being widely useful it would demonstrate making HTTPS calls from LC clients, server-side DB use, and other things that play an ever more pervasive role in our increasingly cloud-driven world. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Aug 4 11:13:42 2016 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 08:13:42 -0700 Subject: conference news In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <260905d0-578e-ac28-fb78-3ac460bb8159@fourthworld.com> Mike Kerner wrote: > I was hoping that someone was posting thoughts, summaries, etc. So far the only comment I've seen about the conference was from a newcomer named Ewan in the forums who had some very nice things to say about it and the people he met: http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=27714&p=145231 -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From blueback09 at gmail.com Thu Aug 4 11:17:25 2016 From: blueback09 at gmail.com (Matt Maier) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 18:17:25 +0300 Subject: Ideas for LiveCode workshops - help needed In-Reply-To: <305163b8-b3cd-c474-f0db-c53824a2cc77@fourthworld.com> References: <01E1E68B-A89E-4894-9DB4-319C94BBC962@byu.edu> <305163b8-b3cd-c474-f0db-c53824a2cc77@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: hostm.com has a tutorial with a desktop stack and server scripts that allows you to add users to a database on the server from the desktop using HTTPS. It would be neat to have a generic "track stuff" app in Livecode that's got all the if-then's and libraries and whatnot to be compiled and work on every platform. That way people could just expand on the "stuff to track" part because the rest of it already works. Sort of a bare bones personal cloud type thing with clients for every platform. Getting the platforms to talk to each other is esoteric. On Thu, Aug 4, 2016 at 6:04 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > How about a client-server user registration system? > > Everyone needs one, and in addition to being widely useful it would > demonstrate making HTTPS calls from LC clients, server-side DB use, and > other things that play an ever more pervasive role in our increasingly > cloud-driven world. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From brahma at hindu.org Thu Aug 4 11:28:23 2016 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 15:28:23 +0000 Subject: Ideas for LiveCode workshops - help needed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: 1) consider a way to do these on line? possibly shorter (I'm in Hawaii so?..attendance is limited) 2) go thru all past conferences and look at the different track subject matter: These were well thought out and could serve as a theme for a number of work shops. 3) try to solicit other to be presenters with the understanding that even a "newbie" could be a presenter. i.e. the presenter's job is also just to "kick off" the workshop? so the newbie presenter picks the subject and say "OK here's what I'm trying to do in Livecode today, and given my very little experience here are the methods I'm using? what do you think." 4) Focus on UI/UX so that you can position Livecode as a tool that can meet modern design requirements/expectations i.e. everything that the users actually sees and interacts with must look 2016 and not 1995. HOW TO: -- handling type -- images on screen -- gradients, backgrounds -- simple animation (parallax, kenburn movement in the background) -- color -- buttons, icons On 8/3/16, 10:54 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Dave Kilroy" wrote: So, ideas and suggestions please! From brahma at hindu.org Thu Aug 4 11:30:03 2016 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 15:30:03 +0000 Subject: Set DoubleClickInterval very low! In-Reply-To: <41D02FD9-B0A2-4298-9592-F1D472DAA466@livecode.com> References: <47cbb531-35bd-9e53-7aad-828333ace41f@fourthworld.com> <5EE1B0F5-C682-4506-BC91-0273E412C20B@gmail.com> <41D02FD9-B0A2-4298-9592-F1D472DAA466@livecode.com> Message-ID: <3D4A96E4-4953-446C-AA25-721A6EF43D96@hindu.org> @ Mark which confirms that lowering the doubleClick Interval to thereby increase responsiveness of a single click is not a bug, but, just the way it works? On 8/3/16, 9:02 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Mark Waddingham" wrote: In order for you to be able to do completely different things on click and double click you need to wait and see if a double click occurs before the doubleClickInterval and if it does not *then* do the single click action. After all, the engine is not clairvoyant. This is why click then double click should always be an incremental and related action - unless you want a pause in processing the single clic From paul at researchware.com Thu Aug 4 11:58:13 2016 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2016 11:58:13 -0400 Subject: conference news In-Reply-To: <260905d0-578e-ac28-fb78-3ac460bb8159@fourthworld.com> References: <260905d0-578e-ac28-fb78-3ac460bb8159@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <57A36615.7010504@researchware.com> On 8/4/2016 11:13 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Mike Kerner wrote: > > > I was hoping that someone was posting thoughts, summaries, etc. > > So far the only comment I've seen about the conference was from a > newcomer named Ewan in the forums who had some very nice things to say > about it and the people he met: > > http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=27714&p=145231 > For me (attending via Webcasts) the highlight of the conference (which is really hard to pick only 1 highlight as there were a lot of good sessions!) was Kevin Millar's presentation on Kognition. From brahma at hindu.org Thu Aug 4 12:05:00 2016 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 16:05:00 +0000 Subject: error Previous request not completed In-Reply-To: <3ac0edeb-11c5-62f1-10ca-1409c0aa9e30@techstrategies.com.au> References: <3ac0edeb-11c5-62f1-10ca-1409c0aa9e30@techstrategies.com.au> Message-ID: "more details" very difficult to debug because there is no feedback mechanism by which to trap the actual cause(s) of the problem. Initially I had some obvious problem with creating an incomplete remote URL for libURL/TsNet to "put" the data into to? "developer/scripter's error" but later I fixed those and still had issues. I'm working on tool for blogging and creating slideshows on our web site, or for a reporter to upload images to our server in San Franscisco while on the road.? locally the images files that we need to push to the server are typically on the local in house LAN server/network mounted volume, or on the users local hard drive? should not make a difference?. I thought for sure all my code was perfect. I would turn on your debug stack?run my upload routine, which loops through the files in the folder and tries to put them on the server. I set break points and watched/fixed every variable?the path to the file(s) and the path to the remote URL were perfect? The debug field would just show an initial handshake/login/authentication success, but then the subsequent loops over the contents of the folder (small jpgs for a test) ? nothing happened.. in fact your script to post the time stamp was also blocked. debug field would just go blank/no output FYI the context was a pretty low bandwidth/wi-fi context. Everytime it got "stuck" weird things started happening. My long stack script 1300 + lines would take forever to appear in the script editor? any attempts to try to edit the script were blocked with "cannot edit script when it is executing." the whole IDE starts to degrade (as it often does in any 8.*? weird stuff just starts happening all over the place, like getting script errors at line 1240 in a script that only has 120 lines? the only way to survive and get work done is reboot LC, which I find I have to do 20 times a day now?way beyond anyone's ability to report issues to the Quality center.. [One has to wonder about the testing process at the mother ship! All this innovation, but we need a deeper broader focus on making it work well. Please: out 1 or to developers in a room, with a video camera behind them and let them build stackware intensively day after day? watch what happens ] I could not even save or quit LC.. but had to force quit from the finder. I switched to my TSNet testing stack which reduces the code to the bare minimum. It was still blocking? I thought perhaps it was invisible files? tried filtering those? that did not help. on mouseUp put initializeConnectionDetails() into tStem # produces the initial string for the url # sftp://user:pwd at host.domain/home/public_html/blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/" put fld "remoteTarget" after tStem answer folder "Choose a folder to upload" put it into tSourceFolder put files (tSourceFolder) into tFilesToUpload --filter tFilesToUpload without "*DS_Store" repeat for each line x in tFilesToUpload put x into tFileForWeb replace space with "_" in tFileForWeb # path to each file put tSourceFolder & "/" & x into tFileToUpload # path on remote put tStem& "transferTests/" & tFileForWeb into tRemoteFile put url ("binfile:/" & tFileToUpload) into url( tRemoteFile) end repeat end mouseUp huh! it still failed and locked up.. that's where I added "put the result" at the end of the loop and there it was again: "error Previous request not completed" again, LC was completely locked/blocked, not further script editing possible? OK.. ran out of time? shut down?. Later I moved to a different venue here which had a wi-fi router right nearby and band width is about as good as it gets.. I thought I would just step through the code again, thinking I must still have some errors in my script? but first let me turn off debugging and just run it and see what happens. Debugging can be painful and sometimes just letting thing run and hit the error is an easier way to work? HA! now I see in the debug field output " "We are completely uploaded and fine Connection #0 to host dev.himalayanacademy.com left intact" six times for the six files in the folder Wow!. so there *was* nothing wrong with my scripts at all. (well.. there was initially, as I was building invalid remote URL's, but later fixed those) I will test again later today on Ethernet. But this is way too fragile to send into production. we *must* have a means to a) inform the user what the problem is. b) release all the blocks c) let them try again d) provide better info?at the very least "You have a connectivity problem, please try again later." OR "invalid URL, please contact admin" (where the issue is caused by the code and not the connection) would be a minimum requirement. Imagine a reporter in a hotel room in Jakarta, or New York (a real scenario in my world) trying to upload some images and the local wifi is spotty and libURL tool just locks up? I will keep testing here on Ethernet today and see if things are working OK? but we need more robust error trapping/reset/feedback methods. Possibly these are present, and I just need to learn what to do?. BR On 8/3/16, 8:50 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Charles Warwick" wrote: If this is new in DP3, that sounds like it is possibly a bug in tsNet that needs to be addressed. Can you provide any more details on when this happens? Regards, Charles From brahma at hindu.org Thu Aug 4 12:06:14 2016 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 16:06:14 +0000 Subject: Extracting list of errors from LiveCode 8 In-Reply-To: References: <09b91992-ac19-d6d7-04e8-7a1f1295d16f@fourthworld.com> <5EE83828-EF5B-4DED-8B97-61EB501490FA@livecode.com> <3A2B722A-4CAB-4E03-8B2D-5C3312A56079@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2D676EE8-B941-489B-911D-06CDA08C7BD2@hindu.org> FYI, not all errors from all included plug-ins will show with the scriptExecutionErrors. e.g. libURL errors can silently lock up the entire IDE and you will only know if explicitly check for the result at the right place in your script. On 8/3/16, 11:59 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Ali Lloyd" wrote: You can use the global property the scriptExecutionErrors To obtain this list. Note that this does not work in a standalone so if you need it you'll have to set a custom property on an included stack or something like that. From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Aug 4 12:09:27 2016 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 09:09:27 -0700 Subject: Set DoubleClickInterval very low! In-Reply-To: <3D4A96E4-4953-446C-AA25-721A6EF43D96@hindu.org> References: <3D4A96E4-4953-446C-AA25-721A6EF43D96@hindu.org> Message-ID: <0b1518f5-051b-8bec-4207-9868a793ea4e@fourthworld.com> Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote: > On 8/3/16, 9:02 PM, Mark Waddingham wrote: > >> In order for you to be able to do completely different things on >> click and double click you need to wait and see if a double click >> occurs before the doubleClickInterval and if it does not *then* do >> the single click action. After all, the engine is not clairvoyant. >> >> This is why click then double click should always be an incremental >> and related action - unless you want a pause in processing the >> single click > > @ Mark > which confirms that lowering the doubleClick Interval to thereby > increase responsiveness of a single click is not a bug, but, just > the way it works? In my reading it very clearly confirms the opposite. The quoted portion from Mark refers to the relatively rare edge case in which one might want to process both single- and double-clicks in a control. In such a case the OS-provided messages are working as designed, LC's support of those messages is fine, and any delay has been introduced by the scripter attempting a dual interaction mode for a single control. Thus far we haven't seen anything in this discussion or anyone else's direct experience suggesting that the doubleClickInterval has any effect on single clicks. For the reasons I noted in my earlier post, you may want to review your libraries for where that's happening. And since you're reducing the doubleClickInterval to a value below what the user expects, you might consider removing that dual model altogether and finding a different means of delivering the options you're seeking to provide for the user. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Aug 4 12:14:47 2016 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 09:14:47 -0700 Subject: conference news In-Reply-To: <57A36615.7010504@researchware.com> References: <57A36615.7010504@researchware.com> Message-ID: Paul Dupuis wrote: > For me (attending via Webcasts) the highlight of the conference (which > is really hard to pick only 1 highlight as there were a lot of good > sessions!) was Kevin Millar's presentation on Kognition. How did you see that? When I log in Day 3 sessions don't appear to have been posted yet. Early riser? :) -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Aug 4 12:26:06 2016 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2016 11:26:06 -0500 Subject: Set DoubleClickInterval very low! In-Reply-To: <3D4A96E4-4953-446C-AA25-721A6EF43D96@hindu.org> References: <47cbb531-35bd-9e53-7aad-828333ace41f@fourthworld.com> <5EE1B0F5-C682-4506-BC91-0273E412C20B@gmail.com> <41D02FD9-B0A2-4298-9592-F1D472DAA466@livecode.com> <3D4A96E4-4953-446C-AA25-721A6EF43D96@hindu.org> Message-ID: <15656604548.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Note that on Android double clicks are almost unheard of. Android uses a long press for alternative actions. On August 4, 2016 10:31:01 AM Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote: > @ Mark > which confirms that lowering the doubleClick Interval to thereby increase > responsiveness of a single click is not a bug, but, just the way it works? Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Aug 4 12:46:45 2016 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 09:46:45 -0700 Subject: What to do with long press? (was Re: Set DoubleClickInterval very low!) In-Reply-To: <15656604548.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <15656604548.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: J. Landman Gay wrote: > Note that on Android double clicks are almost unheard of. Android > uses a long press for alternative actions. ...as long as that alternate action is a tooltip ("toast"). :) I was thinking about long press recently with an app I'm making, and it reminded me of our earlier discussion about that gesture. I'd seen cases where long press had been used to provide a contextual menu, and you noted that more recently it's used only to display toasts. The most recent Material Design guidelines very explicitly support your assertion, with the only thing they say about long press being that it should not be used to provide a contextual menu. But they don't describe what it should be used *for*. The older Android Design Guidelines appear to have been removed from the dev site (if someone can turn them up please share the URL), so we're left with no official guidance as to what we should be doing with long press other than just as a mobile equivalent of tooltips. What is the iOS recommendation for long press? Does it differ significantly from their more recent hard press? What do you folks do with long press? Supporting it turned out to be pretty easy. Now I'm just unclear as to what I should be doing with it beyond displaying a label usually too small to be read beneath my fat thumbs. PS: Anyone here make a HIG-savvy toast widget for LC? Does iOS have a similar object? And is there a way to make mobile-savvy menus from LC popup menus, or do we need to roll our own for those too? Making them is merely tedious but not difficult, but the animation to reveal them is something that takes some effort to try to get right. Might be nice to see supported in the engine, so newcomers making mobile apps can enjoy the same benefits LC provides for desktop apps.... -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Aug 4 13:15:18 2016 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2016 12:15:18 -0500 Subject: Set DoubleClickInterval very low! In-Reply-To: <0b1518f5-051b-8bec-4207-9868a793ea4e@fourthworld.com> References: <3D4A96E4-4953-446C-AA25-721A6EF43D96@hindu.org> <0b1518f5-051b-8bec-4207-9868a793ea4e@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <156568d5470.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> On August 4, 2016 11:11:22 AM Richard Gaskin wrote: >, you might > consider removing that dual model altogether and finding a different > means of delivering the options you're seeking to provide for the user. Just a personal anecdote: I've spent most of my mobile time over the last couple of years in Android, except for brief testing on iOS. I was trying to help a novice iPad user select text and I couldn't do it. I had to look it up to find out a double click was used. This was so foreign to me I never would have thought of it ; on Android it's a long press. I decided never to use double clicks in any mobile app just to keep my code compatible everywhere. If you're writing for both mobile platforms, at least branch the script, otherwise your Android users will likely never discover additional features. Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From paul at researchware.com Thu Aug 4 13:23:14 2016 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2016 13:23:14 -0400 Subject: conference news In-Reply-To: References: <57A36615.7010504@researchware.com> Message-ID: <57A37A02.1070806@researchware.com> On 8/4/2016 12:14 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > How did you see that? When I log in Day 3 sessions don't appear to > have been posted yet. > > Early riser? :) East coast time made it possible. It was 7:30AM my time. Which, becuase I accidentally overslept from when I normally get up, pretty much meant I rolled out of bed and flipped on my laptop and managed to tune in just as it was starting - and that was only because it had a delayed start due to Olaf (Kevin's colleague in Kognition) being late due to a British Ariways delay. :-) From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Aug 4 13:32:52 2016 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2016 12:32:52 -0500 Subject: What to do with long press? (was Re: Set DoubleClickInterval very low!) In-Reply-To: References: <15656604548.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <156569d69a0.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Well, if I said "only" I shouldn't have. It's used to select text, and a long press on an embedded link usually shows the full URL along with a list of options on what to do with the link (copy, open, save to disk, etc. ) Long pressing a word in my ebook reader puts up a mini menu above the selection allowing me to look up the definition, add a bookmark or save the selection as a link to a margin note. Long pressing any 7 or 10 digit number usually shows an option panel offering different phone or contact actions. There are probably others I haven't remembered offhand. Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On August 4, 2016 11:48:05 AM Richard Gaskin wrote: > J. Landman Gay wrote: > > > Note that on Android double clicks are almost unheard of. Android > > uses a long press for alternative actions. > > ...as long as that alternate action is a tooltip ("toast"). :) > > I was thinking about long press recently with an app I'm making, and it > reminded me of our earlier discussion about that gesture. I'd seen > cases where long press had been used to provide a contextual menu, and > you noted that more recently it's used only to display toasts. > > The most recent Material Design guidelines very explicitly support your > assertion, with the only thing they say about long press being that it > should not be used to provide a contextual menu. But they don't > describe what it should be used *for*. > > The older Android Design Guidelines appear to have been removed from the > dev site (if someone can turn them up please share the URL), so we're > left with no official guidance as to what we should be doing with long > press other than just as a mobile equivalent of tooltips. > > What is the iOS recommendation for long press? Does it differ > significantly from their more recent hard press? > > What do you folks do with long press? > > Supporting it turned out to be pretty easy. Now I'm just unclear as to > what I should be doing with it beyond displaying a label usually too > small to be read beneath my fat thumbs. > > PS: Anyone here make a HIG-savvy toast widget for LC? Does iOS have a > similar object? > > And is there a way to make mobile-savvy menus from LC popup menus, or do > we need to roll our own for those too? Making them is merely tedious > but not difficult, but the animation to reveal them is something that > takes some effort to try to get right. Might be nice to see supported > in the engine, so newcomers making mobile apps can enjoy the same > benefits LC provides for desktop apps.... > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From brahma at hindu.org Thu Aug 4 13:37:17 2016 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 17:37:17 +0000 Subject: Set DoubleClickInterval very low! In-Reply-To: <0b1518f5-051b-8bec-4207-9868a793ea4e@fourthworld.com> References: <3D4A96E4-4953-446C-AA25-721A6EF43D96@hindu.org> <0b1518f5-051b-8bec-4207-9868a793ea4e@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: It's very simple: on mouseup # do something right now and don't wait more than 100 milliseconds # because we don't use double clicks anywhere in this app end mouseup There is no "dual model" to even think about. Jacqueline: can you supply a small "long press" trap snippet for us here? tks without even realizing it? I was editing an email in outlook on my iPhone trying to reply and wanted to cut out text, my instinctive attempt to select text was in fact a long press? Long click invokes "select | select all" , then double click invokes the copy begin and end slider to extend the selection. We will have to see if a use case arises where we will need to trap for this also. Jacqueline: how do you give a mobile user on android the ability to select a range of text versus just a word? BR Richard Gaskin wrote: For the reasons I noted in my earlier post, you may want to review your libraries for where that's happening. And since you're reducing the doubleClickInterval to a value below what the user expects, you might consider removing that dual model altogether and finding a different means of delivering the options you're seeking to provide for the user. From smudge.andy at googlemail.com Thu Aug 4 12:56:08 2016 From: smudge.andy at googlemail.com (AndyP) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 09:56:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: conference news In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1470329768641-4707274.post@n4.nabble.com> There's a little trickle re the conference on Twitter @LiveCode ----- Andy Piddock My software never has bugs. It just develops random features. Copy the new cloud space, get your free 15GB space now: Get Copy Script editor Themer for LC http://2108.co.uk PointandSee is a FREE simple but full featured under cursor colour picker / finder. http://www.pointandsee.co.uk - made with LiveCode -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/conference-news-tp4707243p4707274.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Thu Aug 4 13:54:20 2016 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 13:54:20 -0400 Subject: What to do with long press? (was Re: Set DoubleClickInterval very low!) In-Reply-To: References: <15656604548.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: I remember an old webinar where LC demonstrated (at least on iOS) a desktop pop-up automatically "just worked" as a mobile pick list. I believe it was Ben Beaumont showing that. I never saw it for Android, but that was no surprise. ~Roger On Thu, Aug 4, 2016 at 12:46 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > And is there a way to make mobile-savvy menus from LC popup menus, or do we need to roll our own for those too? From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Aug 4 14:41:11 2016 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 11:41:11 -0700 Subject: Set DoubleClickInterval very low! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <57A38C47.5090008@fourthworld.com> Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote: > It's very simple: > > on mouseup > # do something right now and don't wait more than 100 milliseconds > # because we don't use double clicks anywhere in this app > end mouseup > > There is no "dual model" to even think about. If you have no interest in double-clicks it's even simpler: (nothing, since no special handling is needed for events not handled) > Jacqueline: can you supply a small "long press" trap snippet for us here? tks FWIW here's the one I've been using in my lib: on touchStart pTouchID put the millisecs into sTouchEventsA[pTouchID]["start"] put the long id of the target into sTouchEventsA[pTouchID]["target"] send "_TestLongPress" && pTouchID to me in kLongPressDuration millisecs pass touchStart end touchStart on touchEnd pTouchID delete variable sTouchEventsA[pTouchID] pass touchEnd end touchEnd on _TestLongPress pTouchID put sTouchEventsA[pTouchID]["start"] into tStart if tStart is empty then exit _TestLongPress put sTouchEventsA[pTouchID]["target"] into tObj if there is a tObj then dispatch "longPress" to tObj end if end _TestLongPress -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for Desktop, Mobile, and Web ____________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Thu Aug 4 14:50:53 2016 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 14:50:53 -0400 Subject: ios update issue Message-ID: Is anyone else having a problem with the latest ios security update? After going through the process to download and install it, when my ipad booted, it said that it wasn't eligible for the update. I've gone through this three times, and each time I get the same message, whether i do a restore or an update. Then I tried to check the developer forums at Apple to see if anyone else is running into this problem, and I'm getting a message, there that my forums account was suspended. So I tried to send a support message to Apple, but when I hit send, or ok, or accept, or whatever the button is on the web form, I don't get an acknowledgement of the submission, all I get is the web form, again. -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Aug 4 15:11:49 2016 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 14:11:49 -0500 Subject: error Previous request not completed In-Reply-To: References: <3ac0edeb-11c5-62f1-10ca-1409c0aa9e30@techstrategies.com.au> Message-ID: On 8/4/2016 11:05 AM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote: > it still failed and locked up.. that's where I added "put the result" > at the end of the loop and there it was again: > > "error Previous request not completed" We've had the same issue, the problem occurs usually on slower connections. Chipp Walters gave me the workaround we're using now which isn't perfect but seems to resolve many instances. function needToRetry pError -- Chipp Walters if pError is "timeout" or pError contains "socket timeout" or pError contains "error socket closed" \ or pError contains "Previous request not completed" then return true else return false end if end needToRetry In the script that gets or sends to the server (in our case, get) you call the function and don't let the script proceed until it returns false: repeat 3 times -- Chipp's method for unreliable connections get url tURL put the result into tNetworkErr put it into tData if not needToRetry(tNetworkErr) then exit repeat wait 100 milliseconds -- don't use w/msgs, let it block end repeat Chipp originally repeated 5 times but 3 seems to work most of the time and prevents an even longer delay. This will hang the script for a while if the connection doesn't succeed right away. I set the socketTimeOut to a lower number so that each attempt wouldn't wait the default 10 seconds. For most of our users, the repeat never has to iterate but for those with problematic connections it seems to help a little. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Aug 4 15:18:14 2016 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 14:18:14 -0500 Subject: Set DoubleClickInterval very low! In-Reply-To: References: <3D4A96E4-4953-446C-AA25-721A6EF43D96@hindu.org> <0b1518f5-051b-8bec-4207-9868a793ea4e@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <90151ae4-47da-9b01-b924-21bc077367e5@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/4/2016 12:37 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote: > Jacqueline: can you supply a small "long press" trap snippet for us > here? tks I see Richard beat me to it, which was nice. > Jacqueline: how do you give a mobile user on android the ability to > select a range of text versus just a word? On Android, a long press selects the word and adds drag indicators at both ends (just like iOS) so you can extend the selection. Easier, long press and drag to select a range of text. In Marshmallow, Android changed the selection behavior to select whole words at a time while dragging which improves accuracy a lot. If you do only want part of a word, use the drag handles. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Aug 4 15:29:50 2016 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 14:29:50 -0500 Subject: Answer Folder Prompt Message In-Reply-To: <79D84C63-8910-4B8C-9961-C775AB3D868A@iotecdigital.com> References: <79D84C63-8910-4B8C-9961-C775AB3D868A@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <7c00790a-eeba-ab66-c795-ba6bbe930af3@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/3/2016 4:59 PM, Bob Sneidar wrote: > I just noticed that Answer Folder prompt is not showing up in El > Capitan. The dialog shows and works okay, but there is no prompt. > This may be an issue with El Capitan or it may be a bug. It's El Capitan, Apple changed the rules again. Somewhere along the line it's been fixed to show the prompt in the title bar. I can't remember which release but it's there in 8.1. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Thu Aug 4 15:30:14 2016 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 15:30:14 -0400 Subject: ios update issue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ugh. This is becoming more of a problem, as it seems that there are more than a few people dealing with it. Hold off on installing this update for a day or two, I suggest. On Thu, Aug 4, 2016 at 2:50 PM, Mike Kerner wrote: > Is anyone else having a problem with the latest ios security update? > After going through the process to download and install it, when my ipad > booted, it said that it wasn't eligible for the update. I've gone through > this three times, and each time I get the same message, whether i do a > restore or an update. Then I tried to check the developer forums at Apple > to see if anyone else is running into this problem, and I'm getting a > message, there that my forums account was suspended. So I tried to send a > support message to Apple, but when I hit send, or ok, or accept, or > whatever the button is on the web form, I don't get an acknowledgement of > the submission, all I get is the web form, again. > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From brahma at hindu.org Thu Aug 4 15:37:36 2016 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 19:37:36 +0000 Subject: error Previous request not completed In-Reply-To: References: <3ac0edeb-11c5-62f1-10ca-1409c0aa9e30@techstrategies.com.au> Message-ID: <6FDB597C-60C8-49C1-BC31-E6E161B35313@hindu.org> Jacqueline.. thanks for these snippets what about reset? if pError is "Previous request not completed" behavior here I'm getting is that the attempt to run that repeat will fail because the network API is "locked up" BR On 8/4/16, 9:11 AM, "use-livecode on behalf of J. Landman Gay" wrote: We've had the same issue, the problem occurs usually on slower connections. Chipp Walters gave me the workaround we're using now which isn't perfect but seems to resolve many instances. function needToRetry pError -- Chipp Walters if pError is "timeout" or pError contains "socket timeout" or pError contains "error socket closed" \ or pError contains "Previous request not completed" then return true else return false end if end needToRetry In the script that gets or sends to the server (in our case, get) you call the function and don't let the script proceed until it returns false: repeat 3 times -- Chipp's method for unreliable connections get url tURL put the result into tNetworkErr put it into tData if not needToRetry(tNetworkErr) then exit repeat wait 100 milliseconds -- don't use w/msgs, let it block end repeat Chipp originally repeated 5 times but 3 seems to work most of the time and prevents an even longer delay. This will hang the script for a while if the connection doesn't succeed right away. I set the socketTimeOut to a lower number so that each attempt wouldn't wait the default 10 seconds. For most of our users, the repeat never has to iterate but for those with problematic connections it seems to help a little. From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Aug 4 15:58:06 2016 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 14:58:06 -0500 Subject: error Previous request not completed In-Reply-To: <6FDB597C-60C8-49C1-BC31-E6E161B35313@hindu.org> References: <3ac0edeb-11c5-62f1-10ca-1409c0aa9e30@techstrategies.com.au> <6FDB597C-60C8-49C1-BC31-E6E161B35313@hindu.org> Message-ID: On 8/4/2016 2:37 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote: > what about reset? > > if pError is "Previous request not completed" behavior here I'm > getting is that the attempt to run that repeat will fail because the > network API is "locked up" I haven't seen a lockup, so I'm not sure. Because the repeat includes a wait command, the handler prevents any other connection attempts until either the function returns false, or the number of repeats is exhausted. If the latter happens, we don't lock up, it just throws the error and the connection attempt fails. I log those to a text file and inform the user that there was a problem. Since you saw the problem only on slow connections, I'm thinking the blocking "wait" may solve that. It will prevent other connections until the one in progress is finished. You may have to tinker with the number of repeats, the number of ms to wait, or the socketTimeOut value. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From dave at applicationinsight.com Thu Aug 4 18:50:00 2016 From: dave at applicationinsight.com (Dave Kilroy) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 23:50:00 +0100 Subject: Ideas for LiveCode workshops - help needed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <999435DE-46E5-42B7-B31D-BC1EF368277B@applicationinsight.com> Thank you all for your ideas and suggestions! I?m summarising them as follows: A drag and drop matching game. A to-do list app. A simple e-reader app. A walking tour app with a map that you can click for additional information and photos. An app that helps with web research (grab text and images, write notes & emails, filter and ordering). A client-server user registration system. A bare bones personal cloud type thing with clients for every platform. Go through all past conferences and look at the different track subject matter. Try to solicit other to be presenters. Focus on UI/UX - everything must look 2016 rather than 1995 I?ve also remembered a suggestion I once got from a teacher for a workshop topic "A humorous photo editor (draw moustaches etc on photos of your friends)" MESSAGING APP @rjd318 this is a link to a thread on the forum from a year ago covering the workshop where we did the messaging app (including an introductory video and download link to get the stack and .lc script) http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=24465 . Since then I ran another version of this workshop in a different environment and I added some more polish to the app - let me know if what I did was of interest and I?ll dig out the newer version for you. Got any more ideas? Keep ?em coming! Kind regards Dave > On 4 Aug 2016, at 09:54, Dave Kilroy wrote: > > This is a request for ideas for LiveCode workshops > > That is, where one of us is organising a day-long workshop on LiveCode and are looking for a main topic for the day. > > I?m not looking for fully-worked up teaching resources (although that would be nice), but general ideas or topics for the workshop - so that we can say to people, and publicise ?come to this LiveCode workshop where we will build ?? or ?at this LiveCode workshop you will learn how to ??. > > In the past I?ve done LiveCode workshops where the main idea has been: > - build a mobile messaging app (that connects to a web service and mysql database) > - build desktop widgets (little things like an app that watches a folder, using the clipboard etc) > - learn how to search documents and save notes with LiveCode > > I think my ideal would be to get an idea which is: > - a ?draw? (afterall I want lots of people to turn up!), something like ?learn now to connect to the Pokemon Go! API? > - doesn?t involve me doing too too much preparation work for the workshop > - can give a positive experience to participants with differing levels of ability (perhaps by my preparing some partly completed exercises for those who need them) > > So, ideas and suggestions please! > > Kind regards > > Dave > > PS: my next workshop is on 17th September and I haven?t decided what to go in it http://www.meetup.com/The-THINQTANQ-Events-Meetups-and-More-in-Plymouth/events/226749341/ > PPS: ask potential participants what the workshop topic should be usually doesn?t help much! > > > From me at jerrydaniels.com Thu Aug 4 20:18:11 2016 From: me at jerrydaniels.com (me at jerrydaniels.com) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 19:18:11 -0500 Subject: ios update issue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4ec78fbb-534e-4615-a207-f86ba29b314d@Spark> Which iPad, Mike? My update went fine. I've got the latest iPad Air. Best, Jerry On Aug 4, 2016, 2:32 PM -0500, Mike Kerner , wrote: > Ugh. This is becoming more of a problem, as it seems that there are more > than a few people dealing with it. Hold off on installing this update for > a day or two, I suggest. > > On Thu, Aug 4, 2016 at 2:50 PM, Mike Kerner wrote: > > > Is anyone else having a problem with the latest ios security update? > > After going through the process to download and install it, when my ipad > > booted, it said that it wasn't eligible for the update. I've gone through > > this three times, and each time I get the same message, whether i do a > > restore or an update. Then I tried to check the developer forums at Apple > > to see if anyone else is running into this problem, and I'm getting a > > message, there that my forums account was suspended. So I tried to send a > > support message to Apple, but when I hit send, or ok, or accept, or > > whatever the button is on the web form, I don't get an acknowledgement of > > the submission, all I get is the web form, again. > > > > -- > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > and did a little diving. > > And God said, "This is good." > > > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From lyn.teyla at gmail.com Thu Aug 4 21:25:09 2016 From: lyn.teyla at gmail.com (Lyn Teyla) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2016 03:25:09 +0200 Subject: Extracting list of errors from LiveCode 8 In-Reply-To: References: <09b91992-ac19-d6d7-04e8-7a1f1295d16f@fourthworld.com> <5EE83828-EF5B-4DED-8B97-61EB501490FA@livecode.com> <3A2B722A-4CAB-4E03-8B2D-5C3312A56079@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4C02E01D-57D7-4C4F-980F-5DDC7AA1F687@gmail.com> Ali Lloyd wrote: > You can use the global property > > the scriptExecutionErrors > > To obtain this list. Note that this does not work in a standalone so if you > need it you'll have to set a custom property on an included stack or > something like that. Thanks Ali! It looks like the scriptExecutionErrors property is not documented in the dictionary. I?ve opened a bug report: http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18147 Lyn From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Fri Aug 5 03:03:39 2016 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2016 15:03:39 +0800 Subject: Ideas for LiveCode workshops - help needed In-Reply-To: <999435DE-46E5-42B7-B31D-BC1EF368277B@applicationinsight.com> References: <999435DE-46E5-42B7-B31D-BC1EF368277B@applicationinsight.com> Message-ID: Dave, the first question is what is your aim? Is it to show people how to program in LC or is it to hilight how LC can help them? If it is the former, then most of the suggestions given will fit the bill perfectly; they are just examples of something already done, but you show them how to do it in LC. If it is the later, then you need to know your audience and ask them the question, what is it that you want your computer to do that it doesn't do for you now. What frustrates you about your computer, or some program that you know should be smart enough to do it itself but it just doesn't do it. People say the LC, just like HC before it, is a strange beast to describe, and whilst that may be true for what LC 'is', it's not the case for what LC does or can do. I'm sure everyone here, if someone asked "can you do X, Y and/or Z with LC", would be able to respond with how to build a solution with LC. If I attended a workshop that showed me how to build a database, to do list, or e-reader, I wouldn't be engaged because I'd be spending the whole time wondering why I just didn't use the one already on my computer - (assuming I'm not there specifically to learn how to do this in LC language). On the other hand, if the instructions relates to a real life problem, even if it's not my problem, and I can't find the answer on the App Store, then I'm engaged and interested in how the problem is solved. When you ask people what they'd really like their computer to do, everyone can think of something and it will usually fall within 3 categories: 1) An app or utility that doesn't exist 2) The automation of a manual process, and closely related 3) The communication between disparate systems If you are dealing with the younger generation then it will likely centre around games or social media. Back when my boys were young and I was still using HC, Warhammers were the big thing. Like Dungeon's and Dragons, the rules are vast and complex. and every army had it's own book of rules. Those books were expensive, constantly in use, being abused and occasionally lost. I was surprised there was no electronic rule book, so I helped my boys build one, which not only sped up game play but removed 'accidental' misreading of lines about whose man was stronger. For adults it may be hobby or past time related; I enjoy cycling. My Garmin GPS bicycle computer records a massive amount of data, including speed, cadence and elevation. What it doesn't tell me is what gear I'm in *. But given the gear ratios, and working with speed and cadence it's possible to figure it out. So I built a utility that would extract the data, compare it to the gear ratios, and therefore extrapolate which gear I was in; thereby help performance analysis. * with the new electronic bike shifters, and latest generation Bike Computers, this information is now recorded - I was ahead of the times in recognising the need to know 'which gear' in determining optimum performance;-) At work the problem is likely to be 'automated' related. I'm constantly fed pdf reports which are great for reading but useless for extracting information and comparing with previous reports. I have a script which contacts our work server, gets the latest batch of reports, which I feed to an AppleScript to turn them into text, which I then parse into data fields that are fed into a DB. My stack automatically looks for data points which are outliers as well as points that I personally set as triggers. As for communicating with disparate systems I recall someone on the List recently wanting to extract electoral result information off the net. Each year I'm involved a team of about 60 people who take 4 karts to a 24hr Human Powered Vehicle competition. The karts are fitted with transponders and the events timing is done by TSL Timing Solutions Limited, which mainly does motor vehicle racing. TSL transmits the data to the web. For years we'd been doing manually timing, so we could analyse every pedalers performance. Understandably a manual stop watch is not as accurate as an electronic transponder and mistakes were common. This is a job for LC; a webpage scraper, parse out each of our Team karts data, and all our timers have to do is manually enter the pedalers name at each pit stop. Easy. I'm sure everyone here can think of dozens of example of little dirty apps they've built because you 'just can' with LC. If you are trying to promote LC, not just programming, then I'd recommend, if it's at all possible beforehand, to glean from your audience a particular problem to solve, and then show them how LC is the perfect choice in solving the 'individual's problem'. What is LC... it's the answer, you just need to determine the problem. My 2 shekels worth From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Fri Aug 5 09:34:14 2016 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2016 15:34:14 +0200 Subject: LC7and up - cannot connect to DB with ODBC connection string Message-ID: Hi, maybe i am missing something. I have here a script which connects fine in LC6 to a DB using an odbc connection string. The connection string looks like this: get revOpenDatabase("ODBC","Driver={Actual SQL Server};Server=192.168.1.250;Database=testdb;UID=mr;PWD=Baj43jaX;",,,) In LC7 and up i get the error [iODBC][Driver Manager]Data source name not found and no default driver specified. Driver could not be loaded Connecting using a DNS (using the same driver from Actual Tech) works w/o problems in LC7 and up. This problem just exists on Mac OSX. On Windows i can connect to a DB in LC7 and up using a ODBC connection string. Tried with LC 7.14 and LC 8.1.0 DP3. Did anyone else run into this already? Could this be a bug? Matthias Rebbe From skiplondon at gmail.com Fri Aug 5 09:59:58 2016 From: skiplondon at gmail.com (Skip Kimpel) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2016 09:59:58 -0400 Subject: Get value of JSON Message-ID: Good morning LC'ers! I have been able to successfully user mergJson to create a treeview of my JSON data, but I have a quick question: If I wanted to get a specific value, several "levels" deep, how would I format that that code? Thank you for your help! SKIP From skiplondon at gmail.com Fri Aug 5 10:11:09 2016 From: skiplondon at gmail.com (Skip Kimpel) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2016 10:11:09 -0400 Subject: Get value of JSON In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Clarification: I am looking to get the total_count value from this sample JSON file: {"entries":[{"payment_date":null,"transaction_id":null,"6":"","1.6":"LName","payment_method":null,"is_fulfilled":null,"form_id":2,"status":"active","post_id":null,"4":"This is just a test","is_starred":0,"transaction_type":null,"is_read":1,"id":1,"created_by":null,"source_url":" http://te.com/ ","payment_status":null,"3":"(561)222-5942","1.3":"FName","ip":"71.229.127.176","payment_amount":null,"2":" g at test.com","5":"","currency":"USD","date_created":"2012-11-15 02:51:29","user_agent":"Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_8_2) AppleWebKit/537.11 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/23.0.1271.64 Safari/537.11"}],"total_count":1} On Fri, Aug 5, 2016 at 9:59 AM, Skip Kimpel wrote: > Good morning LC'ers! > > I have been able to successfully user mergJson to create a treeview of my > JSON data, but I have a quick question: If I wanted to get a specific > value, several "levels" deep, how would I format that that code? > > Thank you for your help! > > SKIP > > > From skiplondon at gmail.com Fri Aug 5 10:16:17 2016 From: skiplondon at gmail.com (Skip Kimpel) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2016 10:16:17 -0400 Subject: Get value of JSON In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Further correction (sorry!) There were some more levels to the JSON file... Still trying to get the total_count value as well value from item 1/2 which is the email address: {"status":200,"response":{"entries":[{"1.6":"LName","transaction_id":null,"6":"","payment_date":null,"4":"This is just a test","post_id":null,"id":1,"is_read":1,"is_fulfilled":null,"form_id":2,"status":"active","payment_method":null,"is_starred":0,"transaction_type":null,"created_by":null,"source_url":" http://te.com ","payment_status":null,"1.3":"FName","3":"(555)222-5555","payment_amount":null,"ip":"71.229.127.176","2":" g at test.com","5":"","currency":"USD","date_created":"2012-11-15 02:51:29","user_agent":"Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_8_2) AppleWebKit/537.11 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/23.0.1271.64 Safari/537.11"}],"total_count":1}} On Fri, Aug 5, 2016 at 10:11 AM, Skip Kimpel wrote: > Clarification: I am looking to get the total_count value from this sample > JSON file: > > {"entries":[{"payment_date":null,"transaction_id":null,"6" > :"","1.6":"LName","payment_method":null,"is_fulfilled": > null,"form_id":2,"status":"active","post_id":null,"4":"This is just a > test","is_starred":0,"transaction_type":null,"is_ > read":1,"id":1,"created_by":null,"source_url":"http://te.com/ > ","payment_status":null,"3":"(561)222-5942","1.3":" > FName","ip":"71.229.127.176","payment_amount":null,"2":"g at test.com > ","5":"","currency":"USD","date_created":"2012-11-15 > 02:51:29","user_agent":"Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_8_2) > AppleWebKit/537.11 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/23.0.1271.64 > Safari/537.11"}],"total_count":1} > > On Fri, Aug 5, 2016 at 9:59 AM, Skip Kimpel wrote: > >> Good morning LC'ers! >> >> I have been able to successfully user mergJson to create a treeview of my >> JSON data, but I have a quick question: If I wanted to get a specific >> value, several "levels" deep, how would I format that that code? >> >> Thank you for your help! >> >> SKIP >> >> >> > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Fri Aug 5 10:21:31 2016 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2016 07:21:31 -0700 Subject: What to do with long press? (was Re: Set DoubleClickInterval very low!) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Roger Eller wrote: > On Thu, Aug 4, 2016 at 12:46 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> And is there a way to make mobile-savvy menus from LC popup menus, >> or do we need to roll our own for those too? > > I remember an old webinar where LC demonstrated (at least on iOS) a > desktop pop-up automatically "just worked" as a mobile pick list. > I believe it was Ben Beaumont showing that. I never saw it for > Android, but that was no surprise. Useful, but a different object. The selector LC supports can be created with mobilePick, and is easy to map to existing controls like an option button. The pickList is a dialog that overlays the screen in a modal fashion, but the menus I'm referring to here is more akin to a traditional menu, a non-modal list of commands that appears over a portion of the screen, e.g.: We can make these well enough with groups of buttons, and with a bit more effort one can create a generalized custom control that accepts a list formatted in the way we do for LC menu objects to populate it. But it's kinda heartbreaking to explain to new users that while LC provides buttons, fields, windows, dialogs, scrollbars, etc. on desktop, on mobile many of these basic elements need to be tediously laid out manually, and - as the engine does with its objects - we need to implement them in ways that take on the appearance and behavior of multiple platforms. All doable, just not a very xTalk-like development experience. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From bonnmike at gmail.com Fri Aug 5 10:33:58 2016 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2016 08:33:58 -0600 Subject: Get value of JSON In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: While i'm not yet good at reading json directly, i'm guessing mergeJson works similarly to the built in json library, so I shoved your first sample into a field and did the following in the message box. put jsonimport(field 1) into tdat; put the keys of tdat >From that first example, it looks like total_count is a toplevel key, but that may differ based on your later email.. I'm not sure how the two pieces fit together though, so no clue where your keys will actually end up. Having said that.. Once its imported into an array, it should be easy enough to dig around (put the keys..) and figure out where things are. putting the keys of yourarray["entries"] returns a 1 (only 1 entry) but its obvious that there will be a numeric key for each entry. Then checking the keys of yourarray["entries"][1] returns the following keys.. transaction_type 5 is_read date_created source_url 1.6 transaction_id 3 2 user_agent is_starred payment_amount payment_status status ip currency created_by post_id form_id is_fulfilled payment_method payment_date id 4 1.3 6 Again, this is from the first sample you posted, things may differ once you use data with all levels of depth, but it shouldn't be too bad to just dig through and locate the keys you need with the message box. On Fri, Aug 5, 2016 at 8:16 AM, Skip Kimpel wrote: > Further correction (sorry!) There were some more levels to the JSON file... > Still trying to get the total_count value as well value from item 1/2 which > is the email address: > > > {"status":200,"response":{"entries":[{"1.6":"LName","transaction_id":null,"6":"","payment_date":null,"4":"This > is just a > > test","post_id":null,"id":1,"is_read":1,"is_fulfilled":null,"form_id":2,"status":"active","payment_method":null,"is_starred":0,"transaction_type":null,"created_by":null,"source_url":" > http://te.com > > ","payment_status":null,"1.3":"FName","3":"(555)222-5555","payment_amount":null,"ip":"71.229.127.176","2":" > g at test.com","5":"","currency":"USD","date_created":"2012-11-15 > 02:51:29","user_agent":"Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_8_2) > AppleWebKit/537.11 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/23.0.1271.64 > Safari/537.11"}],"total_count":1}} > > On Fri, Aug 5, 2016 at 10:11 AM, Skip Kimpel wrote: > > > Clarification: I am looking to get the total_count value from this > sample > > JSON file: > > > > {"entries":[{"payment_date":null,"transaction_id":null,"6" > > :"","1.6":"LName","payment_method":null,"is_fulfilled": > > null,"form_id":2,"status":"active","post_id":null,"4":"This is just a > > test","is_starred":0,"transaction_type":null,"is_ > > read":1,"id":1,"created_by":null,"source_url":"http://te.com/ > > ","payment_status":null,"3":"(561)222-5942","1.3":" > > FName","ip":"71.229.127.176","payment_amount":null,"2":"g at test.com > > ","5":"","currency":"USD","date_created":"2012-11-15 > > 02:51:29","user_agent":"Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_8_2) > > AppleWebKit/537.11 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/23.0.1271.64 > > Safari/537.11"}],"total_count":1} > > > > On Fri, Aug 5, 2016 at 9:59 AM, Skip Kimpel > wrote: > > > >> Good morning LC'ers! > >> > >> I have been able to successfully user mergJson to create a treeview of > my > >> JSON data, but I have a quick question: If I wanted to get a specific > >> value, several "levels" deep, how would I format that that code? > >> > >> Thank you for your help! > >> > >> SKIP > >> > >> > >> > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From livfoss at mac.com Fri Aug 5 10:43:01 2016 From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel) Date: Fri, 05 Aug 2016 15:43:01 +0100 Subject: Ideas for LiveCode workshops - help needed In-Reply-To: <999435DE-46E5-42B7-B31D-BC1EF368277B@applicationinsight.com> References: <999435DE-46E5-42B7-B31D-BC1EF368277B@applicationinsight.com> Message-ID: Dave, for me and I would guess a lot of others who aren?t so bad at coding in LC, **deployment** on the chosen platforms is the BIG show-stopper; so I?d like to see a workshop that creates a trivial app (say a variation on the clock/stopwatch theme - but it could be anything), discusses the differences (if any) needed in the code for different platforms, and which is then actually installed on all the available platforms, indicating all the pitfalls of deploying on iOS, Android, Mac, Windows, Linux - what installer software to use, getting stuff approved/certificated etc. and including a jargon-buster for the deployment end of things ("what?s device provisioning?" for example). Just my two eurocents, or Brexit pence. (Will the Scots keep GBP if they break away?) Graham > On 4 Aug 2016, at 23:50, Dave Kilroy wrote: > > Thank you all for your ideas and suggestions! > > I?m summarising them as follows: > A drag and drop matching game. > A to-do list app. > A simple e-reader app. > A walking tour app with a map that you can click for additional information and photos. > An app that helps with web research (grab text and images, write notes & emails, filter and ordering). > A client-server user registration system. > A bare bones personal cloud type thing with clients for every platform. > Go through all past conferences and look at the different track subject matter. > Try to solicit other to be presenters. > Focus on UI/UX - everything must look 2016 rather than 1995 > > I?ve also remembered a suggestion I once got from a teacher for a workshop topic "A humorous photo editor (draw moustaches etc on photos of your friends)" > > > MESSAGING APP > > @rjd318 this is a link to a thread on the forum from a year ago covering the workshop where we did the messaging app (including an introductory video and download link to get the stack and .lc script) http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=24465 . Since then I ran another version of this workshop in a different environment and I added some more polish to the app - let me know if what I did was of interest and I?ll dig out the newer version for you. > > Got any more ideas? Keep ?em coming! > > Kind regards > > Dave > > > >> On 4 Aug 2016, at 09:54, Dave Kilroy wrote: >> >> This is a request for ideas for LiveCode workshops >> >> That is, where one of us is organising a day-long workshop on LiveCode and are looking for a main topic for the day. >> >> I?m not looking for fully-worked up teaching resources (although that would be nice), but general ideas or topics for the workshop - so that we can say to people, and publicise ?come to this LiveCode workshop where we will build ?? or ?at this LiveCode workshop you will learn how to ??. >> >> In the past I?ve done LiveCode workshops where the main idea has been: >> - build a mobile messaging app (that connects to a web service and mysql database) >> - build desktop widgets (little things like an app that watches a folder, using the clipboard etc) >> - learn how to search documents and save notes with LiveCode >> >> I think my ideal would be to get an idea which is: >> - a ?draw? (afterall I want lots of people to turn up!), something like ?learn now to connect to the Pokemon Go! API? >> - doesn?t involve me doing too too much preparation work for the workshop >> - can give a positive experience to participants with differing levels of ability (perhaps by my preparing some partly completed exercises for those who need them) >> >> So, ideas and suggestions please! >> >> Kind regards >> >> Dave >> >> PS: my next workshop is on 17th September and I haven?t decided what to go in it http://www.meetup.com/The-THINQTANQ-Events-Meetups-and-More-in-Plymouth/events/226749341/ >> PPS: ask potential participants what the workshop topic should be usually doesn?t help much! >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From livfoss at mac.com Fri Aug 5 10:57:48 2016 From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel) Date: Fri, 05 Aug 2016 15:57:48 +0100 Subject: SVG Editors, anyone? Message-ID: Having got very interested in LC widgets at the conference, I?m about to start experimenting, but I need to create some SVG graphics based on my own designs. I can?t afford Illustrator - has anyone got any recommendations for a free, or at any rate, not very expensive, editor suitable for making LC-widget-compatible graphics? TIA Graham From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Aug 5 11:05:22 2016 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2016 15:05:22 +0000 Subject: Answer Folder Prompt Message In-Reply-To: <7c00790a-eeba-ab66-c795-ba6bbe930af3@hyperactivesw.com> References: <79D84C63-8910-4B8C-9961-C775AB3D868A@iotecdigital.com> <7c00790a-eeba-ab66-c795-ba6bbe930af3@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <80953F0A-E246-4B19-B438-CA76A4815A1B@iotecdigital.com> Thanks Jacque. :-) Bob S On Aug 4, 2016, at 12:29 , J. Landman Gay > wrote: It's El Capitan, Apple changed the rules again. From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Fri Aug 5 11:06:51 2016 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2016 11:06:51 -0400 Subject: ios update issue In-Reply-To: <4ec78fbb-534e-4615-a207-f86ba29b314d@Spark> References: <4ec78fbb-534e-4615-a207-f86ba29b314d@Spark> Message-ID: Air 2. The problem seems to be a combination of Apple not being ready (apparently I, and others ran into the issue because the servers were overwhelmed, so the download timed out), a crap error message that doesn't tell you what's really going on, and whatever is going on with the Developer portal. On Thu, Aug 4, 2016 at 8:18 PM, wrote: > Which iPad, Mike? My update went fine. I've got the latest iPad Air. > > Best, Jerry > > On Aug 4, 2016, 2:32 PM -0500, Mike Kerner , > wrote: > > Ugh. This is becoming more of a problem, as it seems that there are more > > than a few people dealing with it. Hold off on installing this update for > > a day or two, I suggest. > > > > On Thu, Aug 4, 2016 at 2:50 PM, Mike Kerner > wrote: > > > > > Is anyone else having a problem with the latest ios security update? > > > After going through the process to download and install it, when my > ipad > > > booted, it said that it wasn't eligible for the update. I've gone > through > > > this three times, and each time I get the same message, whether i do a > > > restore or an update. Then I tried to check the developer forums at > Apple > > > to see if anyone else is running into this problem, and I'm getting a > > > message, there that my forums account was suspended. So I tried to > send a > > > support message to Apple, but when I hit send, or ok, or accept, or > > > whatever the button is on the web form, I don't get an acknowledgement > of > > > the submission, all I get is the web form, again. > > > > > > -- > > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > > and did a little diving. > > > And God said, "This is good." > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > and did a little diving. > > And God said, "This is good." > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Aug 5 11:11:33 2016 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2016 15:11:33 +0000 Subject: Refer to new group? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <922AE7C6-E473-4E1C-A0ED-81F5E95984C9@iotecdigital.com> Is there a such thing as "first group"? If so, then "last group" has to mean the one with the highest ordinal. So perhaps we need something like "latest group" or "newest group"? Bob S On Aug 3, 2016, at 07:31 , Richard Gaskin > wrote: Thanks for moving that forward, Monte. I agree that the best solution would be for "it" to contain the long id of the newly created group. "last group" doesn't appear to be broken per se, because AFAIK it seems to faithfully return the group with the highest ordinal number, even if in some cases we might prefer it behave like a "most recently created" function instead. So making sure "it" has the object reference not only provides a good solution, but one which is consistent with other object creation commands. From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Aug 5 11:25:06 2016 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2016 15:25:06 +0000 Subject: "after after" for behaviors? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <65E0ABC8-6A2E-45F6-8C7E-229B466E9F7E@iotecdigital.com> Set a global, then have an idle handler in a back script check the global. Have the idle handler check the contents of the global. If empty pass idle, otherwise and accordingly, then reset the global to empty when done. Bob S On Jul 23, 2016, at 11:05 , Dr. Hawkins > wrote: I am trying to implement a generalized behavior that triggers after the entire execution path, rather than after the immediate script, but before the next script in the path. From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Fri Aug 5 11:56:55 2016 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2016 17:56:55 +0200 Subject: LC7and up - cannot connect to DB with ODBC connection string In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <095E519C-03BC-4D95-A225-9E99CBE36BF4@m-r-d.de> Just for your information. Livecode support asked me to submit it as a bug. http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18151 Matthias > Am 05.08.2016 um 15:34 schrieb Matthias Rebbe : > > Hi, > > maybe i am missing something. > > I have here a script which connects fine in LC6 to a DB using an odbc connection string. > > The connection string looks like this: > get revOpenDatabase("ODBC","Driver={Actual SQL Server};Server=192.168.1.250;Database=testdb;UID=mr;PWD=Baj43jaX;",,,) > > In LC7 and up i get the error > > [iODBC][Driver Manager]Data source name not found and no default driver specified. Driver could not be loaded > > > Connecting using a DNS (using the same driver from Actual Tech) works w/o problems in LC7 and up. > This problem just exists on Mac OSX. On Windows i can connect to a DB in LC7 and up using a ODBC connection string. > > Tried with LC 7.14 and LC 8.1.0 DP3. > > > Did anyone else run into this already? > > Could this be a bug? > > Matthias Rebbe > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Aug 5 11:59:55 2016 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2016 15:59:55 +0000 Subject: A DataGrid is not a spreadsheet In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <27E306AA-AD8D-448A-B683-CDBD737D4AF5@iotecdigital.com> I happen to think that editing a data grid as a means of updating a database is a little messy. What I do is I have a form for every table (I use a separate stack for each table because I can manage the custom behaviors for each application more effectively). I name the fields "fld" & the column name from the table so it's easy to write loops that can populate or extract data from my forms. In fact that is exactly what I do. I have a populate and extract handler in a backscript that I call whenever the selection of the datagrid changes. (on selectionChanged) I pass those handlers an array of the datagrid record (the dgDataOfLine or dgDataOfIndex). The handlers check for the existence of a field with the same name as the table column. (if there is a field "fldCustomerName" for ex.) If the field exists, it puts the value from the table column into the field (or in the case of extract, gets the value from the field and sets the array value). To make this method scalable, I get ALL the columns for a particular record when I query the table, and I populate the datagrid with all that data. This approach allows me to simply create a new table column, add a corresponding field to my form, and voila! It populates and extracts without having to do anymore coding. Also, since I have the unique index I have a pointer back to the record in the table the data belongs to. Note that the datagrid will only display the data you tell it to when you define the data grid. So you can have the datagrid display key fields while the form fields give the user more detail. (For instance, a site datagrid can display site name, city and state, while the fields can have address and contact info). I have improved my extract and populate handlers so that they also handle buttons and menus. This required me to store the values in the sql table in the same format as the button or menu uses. For instance a checkbox uses true or false for hilited, so I use a varchar(5) column instead of a boolean to store that value so I do not have to worry about conversions going into and out of the table. I don't get terrible wound up trying to make my sql tables as compact as possible. I'll send you some screen shots to give you an idea of what I am doing to your direct email. HTH Bob S > On Jul 28, 2016, at 19:24 , Javier Miranda V. wrote: > > Dear friends, is it safe to say that a data grid is not a spreadsheet? I mean, you can not create a new data grid and then just click in a empty cell and enter data. > > With some practice and reading documentation, I am able to populate a datagrid with data from a database, and using a Table field in situation in which the user must fill-in data seems limited. > > > Saludos, > > Javier Miranda V. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Aug 5 12:10:21 2016 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2016 16:10:21 +0000 Subject: MORE HELP with: open printing for pdf... SOLVED In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I've seen this happen with Copiers when scanning to file. Since the credentials being used are valid, a placeholder for the file is created by the system, but when the write of the data is attempted, it fails, either due to UAC or some sandboxing issue. This has the effect of leaving a 0 byte file in place with nothing in it. Bob S On Aug 1, 2016, at 09:05 , Dan Friedman > wrote: The file was being created, but it was 0 bytes. From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Aug 5 12:37:32 2016 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2016 16:37:32 +0000 Subject: Backspace unrecoverably deletes an object .... In-Reply-To: References: <744C3505-2860-4C9F-B5A4-CB0F14345AC1@wanadoo.fr> Message-ID: <048C447A-883B-4173-B4CD-6114C534369F@iotecdigital.com> Brilliant! Bob S On Jul 20, 2016, at 11:24 , Peter Haworth > wrote: I can only offer a third party solution. My lcStackbrowser plugin remembers all deleted objects (stacks, cards, controls) until you quit and you can undo the delete of any of them from either a contextual menu or the lcstackbrowser trash can icon. Pete From warren at warrensweb.us Fri Aug 5 13:17:01 2016 From: warren at warrensweb.us (Warren Samples) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2016 12:17:01 -0500 Subject: SVG Editors, anyone? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9c6cf512-58cd-bf69-6ef0-964a6034757b@warrensweb.us> On 08/05/2016 09:57 AM, Graham Samuel wrote: > Having got very interested in LC widgets at the conference, I?m about to start experimenting, but I need to create some SVG graphics based on my own designs. I can?t afford Illustrator - has anyone got any recommendations for a free, or at any rate, not very expensive, editor suitable for making LC-widget-compatible graphics? > > TIA > > Graham One option: https://inkscape.org/en/ From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Fri Aug 5 13:58:29 2016 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (richmond) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2016 18:58:29 +0100 Subject: SVG Editors, anyone? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6b0afdfe-09cd-2889-0014-422f94e1c74c@gmail.com> /Inkscape./ /Richmond./ // On 08/05/2016 03:57 PM, Graham Samuel wrote: > Having got very interested in LC widgets at the conference, I?m about to start experimenting, but I need to create some SVG graphics based on my own designs. I can?t afford Illustrator - has anyone got any recommendations for a free, or at any rate, not very expensive, editor suitable for making LC-widget-compatible graphics? > > TIA > > Graham > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From th.douez at gmail.com Fri Aug 5 14:06:30 2016 From: th.douez at gmail.com (Thierry Douez) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2016 20:06:30 +0200 Subject: SVG Editors, anyone? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: My preferate: Affinity Designer https://affinity.serif.com Thierry 2016-08-05 16:57 GMT+02:00 Graham Samuel : > Having got very interested in LC widgets at the conference, I?m about to > start experimenting, but I need to create some SVG graphics based on my own > designs. I can?t afford Illustrator - has anyone got any recommendations > for a free, or at any rate, not very expensive, editor suitable for making > LC-widget-compatible graphics? > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Fri Aug 5 14:38:19 2016 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2016 11:38:19 -0700 Subject: SVG Editors, anyone? In-Reply-To: <6b0afdfe-09cd-2889-0014-422f94e1c74c@gmail.com> References: <6b0afdfe-09cd-2889-0014-422f94e1c74c@gmail.com> Message-ID: <89e244b1-3b42-02e0-6396-fa630c8691ad@fourthworld.com> richmond wrote: > On 08/05/2016 03:57 PM, Graham Samuel wrote: >> Having got very interested in LC widgets at the conference, I?m >> about to start experimenting, but I need to create some SVG graphics >> based on my own designs. I can?t afford Illustrator - has anyone got >> any recommendations for a free, or at any rate, not very expensive, >> editor suitable for making LC-widget-compatible graphics? > > /Inkscape./ Seconded. Inkscape is free as in beer, free as in freedom, and made by really nice people you can meet at the SoCal Linux Expo and other open source conferences. Great people, great software. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From peter.brett at livecode.com Fri Aug 5 15:06:32 2016 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2016 20:06:32 +0100 Subject: SVG Editors, anyone? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <698fb688-8ae5-a58c-4423-971350c84b67@livecode.com> On 05/08/2016 15:57, Graham Samuel wrote: > Having got very interested in LC widgets at the conference, I?m about to start experimenting, but I need to create some SVG graphics based on my own designs. I can?t afford Illustrator - has anyone got any recommendations for a free, or at any rate, not very expensive, editor suitable for making LC-widget-compatible graphics? I'm a big fan of Inkscape, which I've used in the past for everything vector-related: diagrams for patents, editing PDFs, concept art for product design, and electromechanical block diagram. Oh, and icons. https://inkscape.org/en/ If you use it please donate to support continued development. [1] Peter [1] Alternatively I really recommend becoming a supporter of the Software Freedom Conservancy, which supports Inkscape development (and lots of other open source software projects) https://sfconservancy.org/ -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Technical Project Manager LiveCode 2016 Conference https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/ From dsc at swcp.com Fri Aug 5 15:10:00 2016 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2016 13:10:00 -0600 Subject: SVG Editors, anyone? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7AD5DECE-5D66-4AA7-BA7D-A96587C7CA5A@swcp.com> I use InkScape, the one mentioned by many, for laser milling. It takes some effort to get up to speed. I miss Cricket Draw. One important thing to remember, whatever the tool, is that you can edit by hand if need be if there are quirks in the file. These are usually in scaling. If your current artwork is make out of LiveCode objects, then you might want to consider making something to translate. Dar > On Aug 5, 2016, at 8:57 AM, Graham Samuel wrote: > > Having got very interested in LC widgets at the conference, I?m about to start experimenting, but I need to create some SVG graphics based on my own designs. I can?t afford Illustrator - has anyone got any recommendations for a free, or at any rate, not very expensive, editor suitable for making LC-widget-compatible graphics? > > TIA > > Graham > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > From livfoss at mac.com Fri Aug 5 15:42:55 2016 From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel) Date: Fri, 05 Aug 2016 20:42:55 +0100 Subject: SVG Editors, anyone? In-Reply-To: <698fb688-8ae5-a58c-4423-971350c84b67@livecode.com> References: <698fb688-8ae5-a58c-4423-971350c84b67@livecode.com> Message-ID: Ok, everyone - it?s Inkscape. To reassure Peter, I do normally contribute money to stuff that?s created from community efforts as soon as I start using it seriously. Thanks to all who replied. Graham > On 5 Aug 2016, at 20:06, Peter TB Brett wrote: > > On 05/08/2016 15:57, Graham Samuel wrote: >> Having got very interested in LC widgets at the conference, I?m about to start experimenting, but I need to create some SVG graphics based on my own designs. I can?t afford Illustrator - has anyone got any recommendations for a free, or at any rate, not very expensive, editor suitable for making LC-widget-compatible graphics? > > I'm a big fan of Inkscape, which I've used in the past for everything vector-related: diagrams for patents, editing PDFs, concept art for product design, and electromechanical block diagram. Oh, and icons. > > https://inkscape.org/en/ > > If you use it please donate to support continued development. [1] > > Peter > > [1] Alternatively I really recommend becoming a supporter of the Software Freedom Conservancy, which supports Inkscape development (and lots of other open source software projects) https://sfconservancy.org/ > > -- > Dr Peter Brett > LiveCode Technical Project Manager > > LiveCode 2016 Conference https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/ > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Aug 5 15:52:26 2016 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2016 19:52:26 +0000 Subject: SVG Editors, anyone? In-Reply-To: <89e244b1-3b42-02e0-6396-fa630c8691ad@fourthworld.com> References: <6b0afdfe-09cd-2889-0014-422f94e1c74c@gmail.com> <89e244b1-3b42-02e0-6396-fa630c8691ad@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <2F9129D3-E485-4283-927B-B784B0F70CF7@iotecdigital.com> Wha??!? Free BEER??? Bob S On Aug 5, 2016, at 11:38 , Richard Gaskin > wrote: > /Inkscape./ Seconded. Inkscape is free as in beer, free as in freedom, and made by really nice people you can meet at the SoCal Linux Expo and other open source conferences. Great people, great software. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Fri Aug 5 15:58:03 2016 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2016 15:58:03 -0400 Subject: Backspace unrecoverably deletes an object .... In-Reply-To: <048C447A-883B-4173-B4CD-6114C534369F@iotecdigital.com> References: <744C3505-2860-4C9F-B5A4-CB0F14345AC1@wanadoo.fr> <048C447A-883B-4173-B4CD-6114C534369F@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: Another possibility would be to add some code to the delete object code to confirm, but undo would be better. On Fri, Aug 5, 2016 at 12:37 PM, Bob Sneidar wrote: > Brilliant! > > Bob S > > > On Jul 20, 2016, at 11:24 , Peter Haworth lcsql.com>> wrote: > > I can only offer a third party solution. My lcStackbrowser plugin remembers > all deleted objects (stacks, cards, controls) until you quit and you can > undo the delete of any of them from either a contextual menu or the > lcstackbrowser trash can icon. > Pete > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From b.sellung at posteo.de Fri Aug 5 17:52:03 2016 From: b.sellung at posteo.de (Beda Sellung Posteo) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2016 23:52:03 +0200 Subject: SVG Editors, anyone? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48CA21C3-DC8C-401E-9E2B-D064663B335C@posteo.de> Hello Graham, that?s what I?m looking for too, after seeing widgets on the great conference in Edingburgh this week. CrossPlatform, Opensource and free alternative is Inkscape. An advanced substitute vor Illustrator in my opinion is AffinityDesigner (Mac) for 40 ? and now also available as a free beta for windows. This is a full substitute for Illustrator that is running much more faster and smoother on the mac than IL Perhaps for its mighty functions it may be a little complex for little tasks. Together with their product AffinityPhoto SerifLabs are really challenging Adobe in price and functionality, especially on the Mac. For making especially icons and symbols for controls there are also specialized applications around like WebCode from PixelCut. You can get it from the Apple Appstore for about 40 ? and a trail version from their websites: webcodeapp.com WebCode exports SVG and also html+css with JS for animated graphics especially for web development. I?ve no experience yet with using any SVG-code wich may be delivered in different flavors or qualities, I don?t know. But I?m very interested in this subject and I will do my test, so I hope we can exchange our experiences. Beda Am 05.08.2016 um 16:57 schrieb Graham Samuel : > Having got very interested in LC widgets at the conference, I?m about to start experimenting, but I need to create some SVG graphics based on my own designs. I can?t afford Illustrator - has anyone got any recommendations for a free, or at any rate, not very expensive, editor suitable for making LC-widget-compatible graphics? > > TIA > > Graham > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Fri Aug 5 23:05:11 2016 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2016 23:05:11 -0400 Subject: Extracting list of errors from LiveCode 8 In-Reply-To: <4C02E01D-57D7-4C4F-980F-5DDC7AA1F687@gmail.com> References: <09b91992-ac19-d6d7-04e8-7a1f1295d16f@fourthworld.com> <5EE83828-EF5B-4DED-8B97-61EB501490FA@livecode.com> <3A2B722A-4CAB-4E03-8B2D-5C3312A56079@gmail.com> <4C02E01D-57D7-4C4F-980F-5DDC7AA1F687@gmail.com> Message-ID: looks like a candidate for the dictionary and the release notes for 8... On Thu, Aug 4, 2016 at 9:25 PM, Lyn Teyla wrote: > Ali Lloyd wrote: > > > You can use the global property > > > > the scriptExecutionErrors > > > > To obtain this list. Note that this does not work in a standalone so if > you > > need it you'll have to set a custom property on an included stack or > > something like that. > > Thanks Ali! It looks like the scriptExecutionErrors property is not > documented in the dictionary. I?ve opened a bug report: > > http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18147 > > Lyn > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Sat Aug 6 00:36:46 2016 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2016 12:36:46 +0800 Subject: [SQL] placeholders work for SQLite but not for mySQL Message-ID: What is the trick to passing an empty variable to a mySQL database using placeholders? I have an SQL statement that works in SQLite and mySQL except if the value is empty, in which case it doesn't work with mySQL (works OK with SQLite). I'm using a placeholder :1. If I remove the place holder and substitute the variable which is empty it works - which confirms the mySQL column is defined nullable: DOES NOT WORK FOR MYSQL (but does for SQLite) put "UPDATE " & pTable & " SET " & pColumn & " = :1 , updated = '" & tTimeStamp & "' WHERE playerid = '" & pId & "'" into tSqLiteStatement -- will look like: -- UPDATE players SET postcode = :1, updated = '20160805155320' WHERE playerid = '123' revExecuteSql mySQLID, tSqLiteStatement, "pValue" --pValue = empty ERROR = Incorrect integer value: '' for column 'postcode' at row 1 DOES WORK FOR mySQL put "UPDATE " & pTable & " SET " & pColumn & " = '" & pValue & "' , updated = '" & tTimeStamp & "' WHERE playerid = '" & pId & "'" into tSqLiteStatement -- will look like this: UPDATE players SET postcode = '', updated = '20160805155320' WHERE playerid = '123' revExecuteSql mySQLID, tSqLiteStatement Result = 1 --Row updated Any clues appreciated. If you are wondering why the mix and match of placeholder and non-placeholders it's because in my troubleshooting I've been removing them until I've finally tracked this problem down From beugelaar at solidit.nl Sat Aug 6 02:02:49 2016 From: beugelaar at solidit.nl (Erik Beugelaar) Date: Sat, 06 Aug 2016 08:02:49 +0200 Subject: [SQL] placeholders work for SQLite but not for mySQL Message-ID: AFAIK it is possible to add your parameter in the WHERE clause. So maybe you can test on NULL or NOT EMPTY as the first condition before the other ones. Cheers, Erik Kay C Lan wrote: What is the trick to passing an empty variable to a mySQL database using placeholders? I have an SQL statement that works in SQLite and mySQL except if the value is empty, in which case it doesn't work with mySQL (works OK with SQLite). I'm using a placeholder :1. If I remove the place holder and substitute the variable which is empty it works - which confirms the mySQL column is defined nullable: DOES NOT WORK FOR MYSQL (but does for SQLite) put "UPDATE " & pTable & " SET " & pColumn & " = :1 , updated = '" & tTimeStamp & "' WHERE playerid = '" & pId & "'" into tSqLiteStatement -- will look like: -- UPDATE players SET postcode = :1, updated = '20160805155320' WHERE playerid = '123' revExecuteSql mySQLID, tSqLiteStatement, "pValue" --pValue = empty ERROR = Incorrect integer value: '' for column 'postcode' at row 1 DOES WORK FOR mySQL put "UPDATE " & pTable & " SET " & pColumn & " = '" & pValue & "' , updated = '" & tTimeStamp & "' WHERE playerid = '" & pId & "'" into tSqLiteStatement -- will look like this: UPDATE players SET postcode = '', updated = '20160805155320' WHERE playerid = '123' revExecuteSql mySQLID, tSqLiteStatement Result = 1 --Row updated Any clues appreciated. If you are wondering why the mix and match of placeholder and non-placeholders it's because in my troubleshooting I've been removing them until I've finally tracked this problem down _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From livfoss at mac.com Sat Aug 6 04:33:19 2016 From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel) Date: Sat, 06 Aug 2016 09:33:19 +0100 Subject: SVG Editors, anyone? In-Reply-To: <48CA21C3-DC8C-401E-9E2B-D064663B335C@posteo.de> References: <48CA21C3-DC8C-401E-9E2B-D064663B335C@posteo.de> Message-ID: <3C5A0F48-0182-40AF-81F9-B54AB82C7F1D@mac.com> Hi Beda aybe I spoke too soon - AffinityDesigner looks great (and affordable), although I am not sure I could train myself adequately to use it. Still, I will try both Inkscape and AffinityDesigner. My first goal is to make a widget which displays a fairly photo-realisitic graphic that can be changed by setting its properties - the simplest possible example I can think of is a light switch (it?s either on or off!) but I am hoping for stuff a lot more complicated than that. Thanks Graham > On 5 Aug 2016, at 22:52, Beda Sellung Posteo wrote: > > Hello Graham, > > that?s what I?m looking for too, after seeing widgets on the great conference in Edingburgh this week. > > CrossPlatform, Opensource and free alternative is Inkscape. > > An advanced substitute vor Illustrator in my opinion is AffinityDesigner (Mac) for 40 ? and now also available as a free beta for windows. > This is a full substitute for Illustrator that is running much more faster and smoother on the mac than IL Perhaps for its mighty functions it may be a little complex for little tasks. Together with their product AffinityPhoto SerifLabs are really challenging Adobe in price and functionality, especially on the Mac. > > For making especially icons and symbols for controls there are also specialized applications around like WebCode from PixelCut. > You can get it from the Apple Appstore for about 40 ? and a trail version from their websites: webcodeapp.com > WebCode exports SVG and also html+css with JS for animated graphics especially for web development. > > I?ve no experience yet with using any SVG-code wich may be delivered in different flavors or qualities, I don?t know. > > But I?m very interested in this subject and I will do my test, so I hope we can exchange our experiences. > > Beda > > > > > > Am 05.08.2016 um 16:57 schrieb Graham Samuel : > >> Having got very interested in LC widgets at the conference, I?m about to start experimenting, but I need to create some SVG graphics based on my own designs. I can?t afford Illustrator - has anyone got any recommendations for a free, or at any rate, not very expensive, editor suitable for making LC-widget-compatible graphics? >> >> TIA >> >> Graham >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Sat Aug 6 05:07:55 2016 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2016 17:07:55 +0800 Subject: [SQL] placeholders work for SQLite but not for mySQL In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks Erik, yes that's what I'm doing as a workaround at the moment, I test the variable and see if it's empty, if not I use place holders and execute the original statement, if it is empty, then I've written out the longhand statement without place holders and execute that. It's just a pain, I love using place holders, and it's just a lot of extra hassle. I'm sure there must be a trick to it I just don't know. On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 2:02 PM, Erik Beugelaar wrote: > > AFAIK it is possible to add your parameter in the WHERE clause. > So maybe you can test on NULL or NOT EMPTY as the first condition before the other ones. > > Cheers, > Erik > > > Kay C Lan wrote: > > What is the trick to passing an empty variable to a mySQL database > using placeholders? > > I have an SQL statement that works in SQLite and mySQL except if the > value is empty, in which case it doesn't work with mySQL (works OK > with SQLite). I'm using a placeholder :1. If I remove the place holder > and substitute the variable which is empty it works - which confirms > the mySQL column is defined nullable: > > DOES NOT WORK FOR MYSQL (but does for SQLite) > put "UPDATE " & pTable & " SET " & pColumn & " = :1 , updated = '" & > tTimeStamp & "' WHERE playerid = '" & pId & "'" into tSqLiteStatement > -- will look like: > -- UPDATE players SET postcode = :1, updated = '20160805155320' WHERE > playerid = '123' > revExecuteSql mySQLID, tSqLiteStatement, "pValue" --pValue = empty > ERROR = Incorrect integer value: '' for column 'postcode' at row 1 > > DOES WORK FOR mySQL > put "UPDATE " & pTable & " SET " & pColumn & " = '" & pValue & "' , > updated = '" & tTimeStamp & "' WHERE playerid = '" & pId & "'" into > tSqLiteStatement > -- will look like this: > UPDATE players SET postcode = '', updated = '20160805155320' WHERE > playerid = '123' > revExecuteSql mySQLID, tSqLiteStatement > Result = 1 --Row updated > > Any clues appreciated. > > If you are wondering why the mix and match of placeholder and > non-placeholders it's because in my troubleshooting I've been removing > them until I've finally tracked this problem down > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From tore.nilsen at me.com Sat Aug 6 06:28:29 2016 From: tore.nilsen at me.com (Tore Nilsen) Date: Sat, 06 Aug 2016 12:28:29 +0200 Subject: Slack team for educators and students Message-ID: <0108E98B-B5A3-4475-9062-57A85C0FB7B8@me.com> As discussed at the conference on Friday 5 August, we need to build a community geared towards educators and students using LiveCode. The purpose of such a community is to share ideas, techniques, solutions and problems, and to give each student and teacher a wider community than what can be provided in the classroom. The hope is that both educators and students will find inspiration and motivation in being part of an international community, and that such a community can be used to put LiveCode in the hands of more teachers and students throughout the world. I have now set up a Slack team called LiveCode Students for this purpose. At the moment the team is invitation only, and I would very much like educators who are interested in taking part in such a community to send me a DM. I will then invite them to join the team as owners and administrators. As owners and admins they will be able to set up both public and private channels and they can then invite their own students to join the team. All students will have access to all public channels and to the private channels they may be invited to. Educators will also be given access to a private channel called staff_room, where it is possible to have a coffee break and a civilised discussion with other educators. It is not necessary to teach computing classes full time, anyone who?s work include teaching coding with LiveCode is welcome to join. Any other members of the LiveCode community who would like to contribute to the education community may also send me a DM in order to join the team. Remember that the discussions primarily will be related to curricular activities and not LiveCode in general. Regards Tore Nilsen From effendi at wanadoo.fr Sat Aug 6 07:50:57 2016 From: effendi at wanadoo.fr (Francis Nugent Dixon) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2016 13:50:57 +0200 Subject: Backspace unrecoverably deletes an object .... Message-ID: <2D1E3D6D-0C2F-4E9B-8A3D-65B2011E70FD@wanadoo.fr> Hi from Beautiful Brittany, to Bob Sneidar "Like it" - Will Use ! Thanks -Francis From nabble at mad.pink Sat Aug 6 08:45:16 2016 From: nabble at mad.pink (pink) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2016 05:45:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ ANN ] Release 8.1.0 DP-3 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1470487516172-4707321.post@n4.nabble.com> I started to use 8.1.0 DP-3 for the first time, and I noticed that all of the widgets that are not made by Livecode are flagged. (For example, I have all of Trevor's installed) When using one, I get "Widget could not be created because there was an error while loading it. To resolve, please go to the extension manager." In the extension manager, they all say "Module format not supported." So I just want to double check... is this expected? I tried uninstalling and reinstalling a couple of them, but it didn't work. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/ANN-Release-8-1-0-DP-3-tp4707068p4707321.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From smaclean at madmansoft.com Sat Aug 6 10:46:25 2016 From: smaclean at madmansoft.com (Stephen MacLean) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2016 10:46:25 -0400 Subject: Secure sockets problem... any update? Message-ID: <963CF2AC-F408-4B87-A306-D4E16292B327@madmansoft.com> Hi All, With all that went on in the LC conference, I was wondering if there was any update to the secure sockets problem I reported here: http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16871 and http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=26225 Being unable to communicate securely via sockets using LC as both the client and the server is a roadblock for me, I am hoping something has changed. Best, Steve MacLean From smaclean at madmansoft.com Sat Aug 6 10:49:55 2016 From: smaclean at madmansoft.com (Stephen MacLean) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2016 10:49:55 -0400 Subject: library wrapping using LCB in 8.1 Message-ID: <6F91B1AE-0C73-4267-8E10-4199A29D0180@madmansoft.com> Hi All, Can someone comment on where foreign and OS level wrapping using LCB is in regards to the current 8.1 DP release? Looking forward to getting started when it?s available! Thanks, Steve MacLean From blueback09 at gmail.com Sat Aug 6 12:31:47 2016 From: blueback09 at gmail.com (Matt Maier) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2016 19:31:47 +0300 Subject: file upload options Message-ID: I'm trying to figure out if I should code a solution into my desktop app or just tell people to use a 3rd-party app like WinSCP. What I think I need people to be able to do is "sync" a project folder on their computer with a repository I'm hosting for them on my site. The folder will have multiple files of various types. Just from what I've picked up so far, it seems like all of the options (put, post, FTP) can't upload in parallel. Additionally, it would make sense to only upload new and/or changed information rather than everything every time. I'm inferring that it might save a lot of time to just figure out how to setup some kind of secure FTP access for each user to their repository and tell them to use a tool that's already built for the time being. Otherwise I'll have to basically recreate the core functionality of an FTP client. I suppose a theoretical alternative is to carefully track all of the changes the user makes to their project folder so they can be uploaded one at a time, without actually comparing anything or working in parallel. I'm estimating time based on how much I understand of the example stacks from HostM.com. https://www.hostm.com/tutorials/livecode/api-mariadb-mysql I got them working (with just an echo instead of the database), but there's a lot of stuff in there I left alone, like figuring out how to deal with version numbers, unicode, POST, HTTP headers, etc. Presumably, multipart file uploads, and full directory uploads, will be a huge pain without an equivalent template stack. From lists at mangomultimedia.com Sat Aug 6 13:18:02 2016 From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2016 13:18:02 -0400 Subject: [ ANN ] Release 8.1.0 DP-3 In-Reply-To: <1470487516172-4707321.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1470487516172-4707321.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: On Saturday, August 6, 2016, pink wrote: > I started to use 8.1.0 DP-3 for the first time, and I noticed that all of > the > widgets that are not made by Livecode are flagged. (For example, I have all > of Trevor's installed) > > When using one, I get "Widget could not be created because there was an > error while loading it. To resolve, please go to the extension manager." > > In the extension manager, they all say "Module format not supported." > Yes, this is expected. Modules need to be recompiled for 8.1. Did you compile the modules yourself or do I have compiled versions from my GitHub account available somewhere? (I'm not at my desk right now and I can't remember if I made .lce files available). -- Trevor DeVore From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Sat Aug 6 14:40:42 2016 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2016 20:40:42 +0200 Subject: looking for an alternative to KAGI, because KAGI ceased operations In-Reply-To: References: <000c01d1ec94$f9caafa0$ed600ee0$@FlexibleLearning.com> <6808f246-0729-abbb-17bd-c2526e1c8535@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: You're wrong, Matthias. Also, I never said that companies don't need to do (VAT) tax declarations. It is so easy to misunderstand these things! Kind regards, Mark Schonewille http://economy-x-talk.com https://www.facebook.com/marksch Buy the most extensive book on the LiveCode language: http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com Op 02-Aug-16 om 14:17 schreef Matthias Rebbe: > Mark, > > thanks for chiming in. > >> Am 02.08.2016 um 12:48 schrieb Mark Schonewille : >> >> Always the same misunderstandings about taxes. The new VAT rules don't apply to most people on this list, because they don't sell enough. > > Sorry, i have to disagree. If your company is liable to tax on sales/purchases then you have to do VAT declarations, even if you just sell a digital product for 1 Euro. > You can decide if you do the declarations with each EU country separately or if you do the declaration using MOSS. There is no lower sales limit which would allow to ignore this EU rule. > > Before i wrote the above lines i phoned the German Federal Central Tax Office and spoke to someone who is responsible for the MOSS. > He assured me that there is no such limit. But he was aware that there is a widespread opinion out there that there is such a limit, but there isn?t. > > If you have other official informations especially about the sales limit, then I am more than happy to see them. > > Regards, > Matthias > >> If your tax consultant say "play safe" then make sure to change tax consultant as soon as possible. Clearly, s/he is unaware of the rules. >> > > >> Kind regards, >> >> Mark Schonewille >> http://economy-x-talk.com >> https://www.facebook.com/marksch >> >> Buy the most extensive book on the >> LiveCode language: >> http://livecodebeginner.economy-x-talk.com >> >> Op 02-Aug-16 om 10:07 schreef FlexibleLearning.com: >>> EU VAT is only due on AUTOMATED transactions. Communicating by email and >>> attachments does NOT constitute "Digital Services"... >>> >>> https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/41 >>> 5931/VAT_MOSS_Flow_chart_FSB_edit_V1_0.pdf >>> >>> If your product requires a key (i.e. they are buying a key to the software) >>> and you take the time to send your customer a personal email with the key, >>> my understanding is this is a MANUAL transaction and so falls outside the >>> scope of the legislation. If the key is issued automatically, then it does >>> fall in the scope of the legislation. >>> >>> This is my understanding of this mess. I am not a lawyer and you should make >>> up your own mind whether you are affected or not. >>> >>> Hugh Senior >>> FLCo >>> >>> Matthias Rebbe wrote: >>> >>>> I know, Paypal is easy. I used it before 01.01.2015. But after that date >>> the EU >>>> changed the rules how VAT has to be handled for digital products when sold >>>> within the EU. >>>> So the VAT declarations for every EU country i have to do every month is >>> the >>>> problem. Using PayPal i am the seller of the product and therefore i am >>>> responsible for the VAT declarations. >>>> >>>> Every month / 3 months i have to declare how much VAT i have received >>>> from the customers for each of the EU countries i sold my software to. >>>> That means, even if i just sell only one license to a customer in France >>> for >>>> example, i have to do same amount of paper work as if i have sold 20 >>>> licenses to 20 different customers in France. >>>> If i sell 5 licenses to 5 different EU countries, i have to do 5 >>> declarations. >>>> And if i do not sell for example to a french customer one month, i still >>> have >>>> to do the declaration for France. In this case with the information that i >>> did >>>> not receive ?french? VAT that month. >>>> >>>> You can imagine how much work that is. >>>> >>>> I think i will give Fastspring or Avangate a try. Let?s see who of them >>> answers >>>> my email questions faster? ;) >>>> >>>> >>>> Matthias >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat Aug 6 14:41:26 2016 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2016 13:41:26 -0500 Subject: [ ANN ] Release 8.1.0 DP-3 In-Reply-To: References: <1470487516172-4707321.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <524671a7-bdca-1e04-0b96-e5bd07515533@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/6/2016 12:18 PM, Trevor DeVore wrote: > Modules need to be recompiled for 8.1. During my brief forray, I discovered that the same simple LCB script threw the "format not supported" error if my formatting included tabs. Replacing tabs with spaces made it work again. I looked at your "round corners" widget and it had tabs too, and so it failed. Is that the main restriction now? Is there a reason why tabs aren't allowed any more? -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sat Aug 6 18:00:36 2016 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2016 18:00:36 -0400 Subject: "could not find a valid identity to use for the selected profile" again Message-ID: One machine is working fine, the other isn't. I tried Scott's idea of replacing the Apple WWDC cert. I've tried using XC do re-download the profiles, etc. I tried going into the keychain and removing various certs, etc. and re-downloading and installing, but I'm not getting this resolved. SO What keys/certs/etc. should I be removing/reinstalling to address this? -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From ludovic.thebault at laposte.net Sun Aug 7 01:05:22 2016 From: ludovic.thebault at laposte.net (Ludovic THEBAULT) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2016 07:05:22 +0200 Subject: [SQL] placeholders work for SQLite but not for mySQL In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <86257102-B1A3-4945-879B-3E1A682A8388@laposte.net> > Le 6 ao?t 2016 ? 11:07, Kay C Lan a ?crit : > > Thanks Erik, > > yes that's what I'm doing as a workaround at the moment, I test the > variable and see if it's empty, if not I use place holders and execute > the original statement, if it is empty, then I've written out the > longhand statement without place holders and execute that. > If my variable is empty, i set it to null. (the mysql column accept null) From preid at reidit.co.uk Sun Aug 7 07:35:20 2016 From: preid at reidit.co.uk (Peter Reid) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2016 12:35:20 +0100 Subject: PowerPoint VBA from LC? Message-ID: <1D9BC369-7398-4FE1-83EC-77F901008D6C@reidit.co.uk> I have 100+ old PowerPoint PPT files that can't be opened by modern PowerPoint (2007 and later). However I have managed to get a copy of PowerPoint 2003 that can open these old PPTs and save them as new PPTs that can be opened by newer PowerPoint. My problem is the 100+ files that need converting! So, I thought I'd write an LC stack that will take a folder of PPTs and feed them into PowerPoint 2003, one at a time, to save them into a new folder in the newer PPT format. I can do the file/folder stuff OK in LC and I intend to use the "Do script as VBscript" or shell(script) to activate PowerPoint and get it to open & save a file at a time. My problem is the VBA script needed to open PowerPoint, open a file & then save the file. I've found some code on the LC forums: put "set objExcel = GetObject(," & quote & "Excel.Application" & quote & ")" & return into TheScript put "objExcel.Application.Run " & quote & "D_Scostamenti.xls!ImportAMC" & quote & ", " & quote & tPath & quote after TheScript Do TheScript as "VBScript" but I can't see how to save the file and leave PowerPoint active ready for the next file in the sequence. Can anyone help me with this please? Thanks. Peter -- Peter Reid Loughborough, UK From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sun Aug 7 09:35:27 2016 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (richmond) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2016 14:35:27 +0100 Subject: PowerPoint VBA from LC? In-Reply-To: <1D9BC369-7398-4FE1-83EC-77F901008D6C@reidit.co.uk> References: <1D9BC369-7398-4FE1-83EC-77F901008D6C@reidit.co.uk> Message-ID: <8f15c298-4b32-03e0-e1c4-2787ab446707@gmail.com> Why don't you just do the thing in Visual Basic? Richmond. On 08/07/2016 12:35 PM, Peter Reid wrote: > I have 100+ old PowerPoint PPT files that can't be opened by modern PowerPoint (2007 and later). However I have managed to get a copy of PowerPoint 2003 that can open these old PPTs and save them as new PPTs that can be opened by newer PowerPoint. My problem is the 100+ files that need converting! > > So, I thought I'd write an LC stack that will take a folder of PPTs and feed them into PowerPoint 2003, one at a time, to save them into a new folder in the newer PPT format. I can do the file/folder stuff OK in LC and I intend to use the "Do script as VBscript" or shell(script) to activate PowerPoint and get it to open & save a file at a time. > > My problem is the VBA script needed to open PowerPoint, open a file & then save the file. I've found some code on the LC forums: > > put "set objExcel = GetObject(," & quote & "Excel.Application" & quote & ")" & return into TheScript > put "objExcel.Application.Run " & quote & "D_Scostamenti.xls!ImportAMC" & quote & ", " & quote & tPath & quote after TheScript > Do TheScript as "VBScript" > > but I can't see how to save the file and leave PowerPoint active ready for the next file in the sequence. Can anyone help me with this please? > > Thanks. > > Peter > -- > Peter Reid > Loughborough, UK > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From brahma at hindu.org Sun Aug 7 11:25:06 2016 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2016 15:25:06 +0000 Subject: Ideas for LiveCode workshops - help needed In-Reply-To: References: <999435DE-46E5-42B7-B31D-BC1EF368277B@applicationinsight.com> Message-ID: <58529E5D-F212-4BEB-8531-AA1C4DF2194B@hindu.org> Ditto what Graham said: We semi-proficient coders hit the wall when we create a scrolling group on desktop and then transfer to our iPhone and it doesn't scroll or set a simple player to a URL for an mp3 on web server and discover that you need a to create a mobile player. What if you have content (a little puzzle game) that really should only be viewed/locked down in landscape? and this is on card 3 of a stack that is otherwise portrait? on desktop it?s a 4-line-of-code simple resize trick. "Wow Livecode is so cool" newbie feels proud they figured that out. Not so on mobile. For the level of workshop you are targeting perhaps (my guess) this would probably be an "advanced track" .. these are the things that someone Javascript person watching over your shoulder says "really, why don't you do this all in HTML 5?" because it like its soooo hard (in livecode) and the html5 world has thousands of answers?" [I'm not buying it yet. I've seen some of these html5 apps with their snake pit of libraries and dependencies and 5 times the lines of code in the end and the endless javascript debugging of what doesn't-quite-work-right yet? until the code becomes so opaque that even the developer himself can hardly read it 6 months later. Give me LC any day? but some things are stil too hard in LC.] And, yes: iOS provisioning, Android developer ID et al: a dark grey mountain of mystery that needs sunlight for the newbie. after a year.. I *think* have iOS pretty much figured? but still putting off building for android locally. Challenge is, non-professionals are no doing this day-in-day-out so we really depend on thorough documentation and examples, that is missing in manby cases or out of date (Livecode lessons are pretty good for some things, but not all) So your work shop can include supplementary material on "where to find what you need to know; disclaimer, everything you need to know may or many not be there." BR Graham Samuel" wrote: so I?d like to see a workshop that creates a trivial app (say a variation on the clock/stopwatch theme - but it could be anything), discusses the differences (if any) needed in the code for different platforms, and which is then actually installed on all the available platforms, indicating all the pitfalls of deploying on iOS, Android, Mac, Windows, Linux - what installer software to use, getting stuff approved/certificated etc. and including a jargon-buster for the deployment end of things ("what?s device provisioning?" for example). From bonnmike at gmail.com Sun Aug 7 12:22:36 2016 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2016 10:22:36 -0600 Subject: PowerPoint VBA from LC? In-Reply-To: <8f15c298-4b32-03e0-e1c4-2787ab446707@gmail.com> References: <1D9BC369-7398-4FE1-83EC-77F901008D6C@reidit.co.uk> <8f15c298-4b32-03e0-e1c4-2787ab446707@gmail.com> Message-ID: If you can send keys to the powerpoint app, you might be able to open the file, and then send keys to open the menu, and then step through the keypresses you need to do what you want. Having said that, have you considered using autoit instead? (its geared for just this sort of thing) Theres one or two macro builders that can do this sort of thing too, but the few times I used autoit it worked well. On Sun, Aug 7, 2016 at 7:35 AM, richmond wrote: > Why don't you just do the thing in Visual Basic? > > Richmond. > > > On 08/07/2016 12:35 PM, Peter Reid wrote: > >> I have 100+ old PowerPoint PPT files that can't be opened by modern >> PowerPoint (2007 and later). However I have managed to get a copy of >> PowerPoint 2003 that can open these old PPTs and save them as new PPTs that >> can be opened by newer PowerPoint. My problem is the 100+ files that need >> converting! >> >> So, I thought I'd write an LC stack that will take a folder of PPTs and >> feed them into PowerPoint 2003, one at a time, to save them into a new >> folder in the newer PPT format. I can do the file/folder stuff OK in LC >> and I intend to use the "Do script as VBscript" or shell(script) to >> activate PowerPoint and get it to open & save a file at a time. >> >> My problem is the VBA script needed to open PowerPoint, open a file & >> then save the file. I've found some code on the LC forums: >> >> put "set objExcel = GetObject(," & quote & "Excel.Application" & quote & >> ")" & return into TheScript >> put "objExcel.Application.Run " & quote & "D_Scostamenti.xls!ImportAMC" & >> quote & ", " & quote & tPath & quote after TheScript >> Do TheScript as "VBScript" >> >> but I can't see how to save the file and leave PowerPoint active ready >> for the next file in the sequence. Can anyone help me with this please? >> >> Thanks. >> >> Peter >> -- >> Peter Reid >> Loughborough, UK >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From brahma at hindu.org Mon Aug 8 01:05:18 2016 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2016 05:05:18 +0000 Subject: Play MP3 - What format do you use for mobile? Message-ID: <3C681F52-848C-4ABC-B97A-56827C2018A7@hindu.org> This produces garbage on Mac OS X and so I presume it would on mobile as well.. play "/Users/app/source/shared/audio/aum.mp3" No doubt because MP3 is not supported by the engine. For cross platform to work anywhere? is WAV still what everyone is using? I'm looking for the best smallest, yet not-to-bad quality codec for short voice instructions, UI "rewards" "Good Boy!" sounds that you might use in a game all of which would not be using a player. but just a path to file on disk (i.e. not an embedded clip) What do you do? BR From brahma at hindu.org Mon Aug 8 01:10:07 2016 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2016 05:10:07 +0000 Subject: SVG Editors, anyone? In-Reply-To: <3C5A0F48-0182-40AF-81F9-B54AB82C7F1D@mac.com> References: <48CA21C3-DC8C-401E-9E2B-D064663B335C@posteo.de> <3C5A0F48-0182-40AF-81F9-B54AB82C7F1D@mac.com> Message-ID: Are you looking to go beyond the single path, one color option we have now? I keep getting illustrator files from our designers that can be saved and shown SVG on the web, inclusive of multiple paths and gradients but would love to use them in LC apps. BR On 8/5/16, 10:33 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Graham Samuel" wrote: Hi Beda aybe I spoke too soon - AffinityDesigner looks great (and affordable), although I am not sure I could train myself adequately to use it. Still, I will try both Inkscape and AffinityDesigner. My first goal is to make a widget which displays a fairly photo-realisitic graphic that can be changed by setting its properties - the simplest possible example I can think of is a light switch (it?s either on or off!) but I am hoping for stuff a lot more complicated than that. Thanks Graham From peter.brett at livecode.com Mon Aug 8 02:01:13 2016 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2016 07:01:13 +0100 Subject: Play MP3 - What format do you use for mobile? In-Reply-To: <3C681F52-848C-4ABC-B97A-56827C2018A7@hindu.org> References: <3C681F52-848C-4ABC-B97A-56827C2018A7@hindu.org> Message-ID: <0c1c45d6-e219-1664-92c8-915ef415922e@livecode.com> On 08/08/2016 06:05, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote: > This produces garbage on Mac OS X and so I presume it would on mobile > as well.. Is mergAV an option? Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Technical Project Manager LiveCode 2016 Conference https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/ From monte at appisle.net Mon Aug 8 03:06:21 2016 From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2016 17:06:21 +1000 Subject: Play MP3 - What format do you use for mobile? In-Reply-To: <0c1c45d6-e219-1664-92c8-915ef415922e@livecode.com> References: <3C681F52-848C-4ABC-B97A-56827C2018A7@hindu.org> <0c1c45d6-e219-1664-92c8-915ef415922e@livecode.com> Message-ID: I doubt if the player object or mobile control can't play a file that mergAV will be any different as all three use the same framework on iOS and Mac. Unless of course we are discussing pre-10.8 Mac. Cheers Monte Sent from my iPhone On 8 Aug 2016, at 4:01 PM, Peter TB Brett wrote: >> This produces garbage on Mac OS X and so I presume it would on mobile >> as well.. > > Is mergAV an option? From devin_asay at byu.edu Mon Aug 8 04:39:47 2016 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2016 08:39:47 +0000 Subject: Play MP3 - What format do you use for mobile? In-Reply-To: <3C681F52-848C-4ABC-B97A-56827C2018A7@hindu.org> References: <3C681F52-848C-4ABC-B97A-56827C2018A7@hindu.org> Message-ID: BR, MP3s play natively on both iOS and android. You should be able to use the play command followed by the path to the file. Or is the issue that you need to have it cross platform? In that case WAV is a good choice. Devin Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 8, 2016, at 6:05 AM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote: > > This produces garbage on Mac OS X and so I presume it would on mobile as well.. > > > play "/Users/app/source/shared/audio/aum.mp3" > > No doubt because MP3 is not supported by the engine. > > For cross platform to work anywhere? is WAV still what everyone is using? > > I'm looking for the best smallest, yet not-to-bad quality codec for > > short voice instructions, > > UI "rewards" "Good Boy!" > > sounds that you might use in a game > > all of which would not be using a player. but just a path to file on disk (i.e. not an embedded clip) > > What do you do? > > BR > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mark at livecode.com Mon Aug 8 05:00:06 2016 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Mon, 08 Aug 2016 11:00:06 +0200 Subject: Play MP3 - What format do you use for =?UTF-8?Q?mobile=3F?= In-Reply-To: References: <3C681F52-848C-4ABC-B97A-56827C2018A7@hindu.org> Message-ID: On 2016-08-08 10:39, Devin Asay wrote: > MP3s play natively on both iOS and android. You should be able to use > the play command followed by the path to the file. Or is the issue > that you need to have it cross platform? In that case WAV is a good > choice. Devin is correct - the 'play' command should work on iOS and Android with mp3s. For the desktop platforms, you are best to use a hidden player. This can be abstracted with a command in a library script - which 'does the right thing' on all platforms. i.e. command playSound pSoundFile if the environment is "mobile" then play pSoundFile else set the filename of player "myHiddenPlayer" to pSoundFile play player "myHiddenPlayer" end if end playSound Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From livfoss at mac.com Mon Aug 8 06:27:44 2016 From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel) Date: Mon, 08 Aug 2016 12:27:44 +0200 Subject: SVG Editors, anyone? In-Reply-To: References: <48CA21C3-DC8C-401E-9E2B-D064663B335C@posteo.de> <3C5A0F48-0182-40AF-81F9-B54AB82C7F1D@mac.com> Message-ID: <1AF71FA0-6927-4122-8F39-113B2F003217@mac.com> Yes, I?m assuming that the SVG capabilities of widgets will develop until pretty much any SVG graphic can be rendered: this could of course be wrong. But I would be very sad if we have to stick to monochrome for any serious work. After all, complex controls, which is what widgets are, are certain to demand colour sooner rather than later, and since scalability is the most attractive thing about widgets that I?ve seen so far, I very much hope this can be achieved via SVG. OTOH at the conference I don?t think I heard anyone from the mother ship talking about plans to enrich SVG rendering. If anyone knows anything more definite, please tell us! Graham > On 8 Aug 2016, at 07:10, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote: > > Are you looking to go beyond the single path, one color option we have now? I keep getting illustrator files from our designers that can be saved and shown SVG on the web, inclusive of multiple paths and gradients but would love to use them in LC apps. > > BR > > > > On 8/5/16, 10:33 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Graham Samuel" wrote: > > Hi Beda > > aybe I spoke too soon - AffinityDesigner looks great (and affordable), although I am not sure I could train myself adequately to use it. > > Still, I will try both Inkscape and AffinityDesigner. My first goal is to make a widget which displays a fairly photo-realisitic graphic that can be changed by setting its properties - the simplest possible example I can think of is a light switch (it?s either on or off!) but I am hoping for stuff a lot more complicated than that. > > Thanks > > Graham > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Mon Aug 8 07:36:02 2016 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2016 19:36:02 +0800 Subject: [SQL] placeholders work for SQLite but not for mySQL In-Reply-To: <86257102-B1A3-4945-879B-3E1A682A8388@laposte.net> References: <86257102-B1A3-4945-879B-3E1A682A8388@laposte.net> Message-ID: On Sun, Aug 7, 2016 at 1:05 PM, Ludovic THEBAULT wrote: > > > If my variable is empty, i set it to null. > (the mysql column accept null) > Hi Ludovic, sorry for the slow reply but for some reason your email ended up in my SPAM folder. Thanks for the suggestion, but after this stupid attempt put "null" into pValue --rookie mistake I eventually read the Dictionary to discover that 'null' is wisely an LC predefined constant. Unfortunately: put null into pValue worked fine for SQLite, but I still got the exact same mySQL ERROR = Incorrect integer value: '' for column 'postcode' at row 1 And again, if I don't use a placeholder and write it out longhand it works fine: UPDATE players SET postcode = null, updated = '20160805155320' WHERE playerid = '123' Result = 1 --Row updated There must be something screwy about my set-up because I can't believe that this is the only mySQL/LC combo I have of using a placeholder to pass empty to an integer column in mySQL. For the same DB it happily accepts empty via a placeholder to varchar fields. I'll probably resort to my usual backstop - completely rebuild from scratch. From lists at mangomultimedia.com Mon Aug 8 07:40:17 2016 From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2016 07:40:17 -0400 Subject: [ ANN ] Release 8.1.0 DP-3 In-Reply-To: <524671a7-bdca-1e04-0b96-e5bd07515533@hyperactivesw.com> References: <1470487516172-4707321.post@n4.nabble.com> <524671a7-bdca-1e04-0b96-e5bd07515533@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 2:41 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > > During my brief forray, I discovered that the same simple LCB script threw > the "format not supported" error if my formatting included tabs. Replacing > tabs with spaces made it work again. I looked at your "round corners" > widget and it had tabs too, and so it failed. Is that the main restriction > now? Is there a reason why tabs aren't allowed any more? I'm not aware of an issues with tabs in 8.1. I just tried compiling a widget that has tabs in it and I didn't see any errors. -- Trevor DeVore ScreenSteps www.screensteps.com - www.clarify-it.com From ludovic.thebault at laposte.net Mon Aug 8 08:42:25 2016 From: ludovic.thebault at laposte.net (Ludovic THEBAULT) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2016 14:42:25 +0200 Subject: [SQL] placeholders work for SQLite but not for mySQL In-Reply-To: References: <86257102-B1A3-4945-879B-3E1A682A8388@laposte.net> Message-ID: <558AB8D7-F5E3-4919-86D0-EBB9D3CA953A@laposte.net> > Le 8 ao?t 2016 ? 13:36, Kay C Lan a ?crit : > Unfortunately: > > put null into pValue > > worked fine for SQLite, but I still got the exact same mySQL ERROR = > Incorrect integer value: '' for column 'postcode' at row 1 > After the revexecuteSQL do a : if pValue = empty then ## (or null) replace ":2" with "NULL" in tSQL end if ## where :2 is the placeholder which can be empty. From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Mon Aug 8 09:07:24 2016 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2016 09:07:24 -0400 Subject: <> is no longer avilable Message-ID: One of our custom ios apps, that we have installed on multiple devices internally, as of this morning is either crashing without message or putting up the message that the app is no longer available. If I attempt to uninstall and reinstall it, no joy. I check the provisioning profile, and it is current. -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Mon Aug 8 09:17:22 2016 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2016 09:17:22 -0400 Subject: <> is no longer available In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <006c01d1f177$33185550$9948fff0$@net> Check to see if the dev certificate or the provisioning profile have expired. Also if you delete the old dev certificate and create a new one then you have to reset the provisioning profiles(edit nothing and save) for all your dev provision profiles. Any monkeying with provisioning profiles require the app to be re-linked and re-installed on the device. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Mike Kerner Sent: Monday, August 08, 2016 9:07 AM To: How to use LiveCode Subject: <> is no longer avilable One of our custom ios apps, that we have installed on multiple devices internally, as of this morning is either crashing without message or putting up the message that the app is no longer available. If I attempt to uninstall and reinstall it, no joy. I check the provisioning profile, and it is current. -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Mon Aug 8 09:58:32 2016 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2016 09:58:32 -0400 Subject: <> is no longer available In-Reply-To: <006c01d1f177$33185550$9948fff0$@net> References: <006c01d1f177$33185550$9948fff0$@net> Message-ID: yep. I did all that. Everything is current, the account is paid up, and I haven't compiled a new version in a couple of months, so it's odd... On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 9:17 AM, Ralph DiMola wrote: > Check to see if the dev certificate or the provisioning profile have > expired. Also if you delete the old dev certificate and create a new one > then you have to reset the provisioning profiles(edit nothing and save) for > all your dev provision profiles. Any monkeying with provisioning profiles > require the app to be re-linked and re-installed on the device. > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > > -----Original Message----- > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On > Behalf > Of Mike Kerner > Sent: Monday, August 08, 2016 9:07 AM > To: How to use LiveCode > Subject: <> is no longer avilable > > One of our custom ios apps, that we have installed on multiple devices > internally, as of this morning is either crashing without message or > putting > up the message that the app is no longer available. If I attempt to > uninstall and reinstall it, no joy. I check the provisioning profile, and > it is current. > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, > God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From smaclean at madmansoft.com Mon Aug 8 10:02:52 2016 From: smaclean at madmansoft.com (Stephen MacLean) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2016 10:02:52 -0400 Subject: <> is no longer available In-Reply-To: References: <006c01d1f177$33185550$9948fff0$@net> Message-ID: <57EB5AB7-7EA0-4A1F-A3DB-44970F8DCC30@madmansoft.com> Hi Mike, You may need to compile a new version with the new developer provisioning profile. Once they are expired, your app won?t work and needs to be re-complied with the new one. hth, Steve MacLean > On Aug 8, 2016, at 9:58 AM, Mike Kerner wrote: > > yep. I did all that. Everything is current, the account is paid up, and I > haven't compiled a new version in a couple of months, so it's odd... > > On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 9:17 AM, Ralph DiMola > wrote: > >> Check to see if the dev certificate or the provisioning profile have >> expired. Also if you delete the old dev certificate and create a new one >> then you have to reset the provisioning profiles(edit nothing and save) for >> all your dev provision profiles. Any monkeying with provisioning profiles >> require the app to be re-linked and re-installed on the device. >> >> Ralph DiMola >> IT Director >> Evergreen Information Services >> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On >> Behalf >> Of Mike Kerner >> Sent: Monday, August 08, 2016 9:07 AM >> To: How to use LiveCode >> Subject: <> is no longer avilable >> >> One of our custom ios apps, that we have installed on multiple devices >> internally, as of this morning is either crashing without message or >> putting >> up the message that the app is no longer available. If I attempt to >> uninstall and reinstall it, no joy. I check the provisioning profile, and >> it is current. >> >> -- >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, >> God created the oceans. >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >> and did a little diving. >> And God said, "This is good." >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription >> preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Mon Aug 8 10:20:25 2016 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2016 10:20:25 -0400 Subject: <> is no longer available In-Reply-To: <57EB5AB7-7EA0-4A1F-A3DB-44970F8DCC30@madmansoft.com> References: <006c01d1f177$33185550$9948fff0$@net> <57EB5AB7-7EA0-4A1F-A3DB-44970F8DCC30@madmansoft.com> Message-ID: I don't have a new provisioning profile. That's what's so weird. Nothing is new. On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 10:02 AM, Stephen MacLean wrote: > Hi Mike, > > You may need to compile a new version with the new developer provisioning > profile. Once they are expired, your app won?t work and needs to be > re-complied with the new one. > > hth, > > Steve MacLean > > > On Aug 8, 2016, at 9:58 AM, Mike Kerner > wrote: > > > > yep. I did all that. Everything is current, the account is paid up, > and I > > haven't compiled a new version in a couple of months, so it's odd... > > > > On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 9:17 AM, Ralph DiMola > > wrote: > > > >> Check to see if the dev certificate or the provisioning profile have > >> expired. Also if you delete the old dev certificate and create a new one > >> then you have to reset the provisioning profiles(edit nothing and save) > for > >> all your dev provision profiles. Any monkeying with provisioning > profiles > >> require the app to be re-linked and re-installed on the device. > >> > >> Ralph DiMola > >> IT Director > >> Evergreen Information Services > >> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On > >> Behalf > >> Of Mike Kerner > >> Sent: Monday, August 08, 2016 9:07 AM > >> To: How to use LiveCode > >> Subject: <> is no longer avilable > >> > >> One of our custom ios apps, that we have installed on multiple devices > >> internally, as of this morning is either crashing without message or > >> putting > >> up the message that the app is no longer available. If I attempt to > >> uninstall and reinstall it, no joy. I check the provisioning profile, > and > >> it is current. > >> > >> -- > >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second > day, > >> God created the oceans. > >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > >> and did a little diving. > >> And God said, "This is good." > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription > >> preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > and did a little diving. > > And God said, "This is good." > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Mon Aug 8 11:33:27 2016 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2016 11:33:27 -0400 Subject: <> is no longer available In-Reply-To: References: <006c01d1f177$33185550$9948fff0$@net> <57EB5AB7-7EA0-4A1F-A3DB-44970F8DCC30@madmansoft.com> Message-ID: <007901d1f18a$35ecfe80$a1c6fb80$@net> If you have not changed any of your dev certs/profiles on the Apple dev site and nothing is expired on the Apple dev site, I am at a loss. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Mike Kerner Sent: Monday, August 08, 2016 10:20 AM To: How to use LiveCode Subject: Re: <> is no longer available I don't have a new provisioning profile. That's what's so weird. Nothing is new. On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 10:02 AM, Stephen MacLean wrote: > Hi Mike, > > You may need to compile a new version with the new developer > provisioning profile. Once they are expired, your app won?t work and > needs to be re-complied with the new one. > > hth, > > Steve MacLean > > > On Aug 8, 2016, at 9:58 AM, Mike Kerner > wrote: > > > > yep. I did all that. Everything is current, the account is paid > > up, > and I > > haven't compiled a new version in a couple of months, so it's odd... > > > > On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 9:17 AM, Ralph DiMola > > > > wrote: > > > >> Check to see if the dev certificate or the provisioning profile > >> have expired. Also if you delete the old dev certificate and create > >> a new one then you have to reset the provisioning profiles(edit > >> nothing and save) > for > >> all your dev provision profiles. Any monkeying with provisioning > profiles > >> require the app to be re-linked and re-installed on the device. > >> > >> Ralph DiMola > >> IT Director > >> Evergreen Information Services > >> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] > >> On Behalf Of Mike Kerner > >> Sent: Monday, August 08, 2016 9:07 AM > >> To: How to use LiveCode > >> Subject: <> is no longer avilable > >> > >> One of our custom ios apps, that we have installed on multiple > >> devices internally, as of this morning is either crashing without > >> message or putting up the message that the app is no longer > >> available. If I attempt to uninstall and reinstall it, no joy. I > >> check the provisioning profile, > and > >> it is current. > >> > >> -- > >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the > >> second > day, > >> God created the oceans. > >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > >> and did a little diving. > >> And God said, "This is good." > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription > >> preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the > > second day, God created the oceans. > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > and did a little diving. > > And God said, "This is good." > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From pete at lcsql.com Mon Aug 8 11:46:18 2016 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Mon, 08 Aug 2016 15:46:18 +0000 Subject: [SQL] placeholders work for SQLite but not for mySQL In-Reply-To: <558AB8D7-F5E3-4919-86D0-EBB9D3CA953A@laposte.net> References: <86257102-B1A3-4945-879B-3E1A682A8388@laposte.net> <558AB8D7-F5E3-4919-86D0-EBB9D3CA953A@laposte.net> Message-ID: SQLite is very forgiving about what data type it accepts for a column. It will pretty much accept anything no matter what the defined data type is. mySQL on the other hand rejects anything that doesn't match the declared data type. That would explain the difference between the two systems. It doesn't explain the difference between using a parameter vs an embedded value, you should get the same result either way. I think you should submit a bug report. On Mon, Aug 8, 2016, 5:42 AM Ludovic THEBAULT wrote: > > > Le 8 ao?t 2016 ? 13:36, Kay C Lan a ?crit : > > Unfortunately: > > > > put null into pValue > > > > worked fine for SQLite, but I still got the exact same mySQL ERROR = > > Incorrect integer value: '' for column 'postcode' at row 1 > > > > After the revexecuteSQL do a : > if pValue = empty then ## (or null) > replace ":2" with "NULL" in tSQL > end if > > ## where :2 is the placeholder which can be empty. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From brahma at hindu.org Mon Aug 8 11:52:56 2016 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2016 15:52:56 +0000 Subject: Play MP3 - What format do you use for mobile? In-Reply-To: References: <3C681F52-848C-4ABC-B97A-56827C2018A7@hindu.org> Message-ID: <232DEEFB-CADD-406A-9B7A-5ABF50D93C28@hindu.org> Mark Waddingham" wrote: command playSound pSoundFile if the environment is "mobile" then play pSoundFile else set the filename of player "myHiddenPlayer" to pSoundFile play player "myHiddenPlayer" end if end playSound ----- Mark: Welcome back to "After The Conference Land" wish I could have been there. play fork code: Thanks, perfect? we are already using this model for actual exposed players w/controls for the user since we have to fork to a mobile player in iOS/Android and the native LC player on desktop anyway, so this follows that same paradigm, only even easier. In fact we might adopt this instead of an exposed player and only give the user the option to stop or start, even for a long recording. I'm not close to user expectations for control over audio play. The younger set here run all day with earbuds in? I don't? Even in iTunes all I ever do is stop or start what I'm listening to. I don't think there is a strong use case to scrub forward or back, but I could be wrong. The dictionary offers these are related props in entry on "play" property: looping, dontRefresh, playRate, showSelection, frameCount, playLoudness, callbacks, currentTime, playDestination Can we extract the currentTime from just a "play sound" in progress or that was stopped? Is suspect that level of control is only available for the player. SIZE ISSUES: I just saved the same 49K mp3 file as WAV with the same sample rate and bit rate settings as wav. The difference in size was even more dramatic than I expected. WAV was 678k! We are not talking here about short beeps or quick "bird tweets" or midi type loops, but relatively long (for apps) 10-30 second voice instructions. So if one is to add e.g. 100 , 15 second sound files to your app package, that would be: ~5MB of MP3's vs 67.8MB of WAV! OT -- RECORDING: I'm a newbie on this mobile delivery platform. We do have our high end Sennhauser ? Edirol recording system for the important work, that goes to web, where I run files carefully through dynamics processor, tube equalizer, scrub the high range, normalize and save with dither? etc., but I'm looking here at at Q and D production process that still meets the requirements. Any advice appreciated. Input settings in Adobe Audition set to Sample rate 16000 hz, mono, bit depth to 24. 14 seconds. Made with an inexpensive USB Plantronics USB headset/mic: same one I use for Skype. Anything lower that this starts to sound terrible. Only sound processing was to sample the hiss on the floor and remove that with noise reduction and export with same settings as input. The wav has a minutely better quality than the mp3? which one would expect. But for voice I'm not sure the difference will be perceived by the user. You have to listen to them side-by-side to "get critical"? for those interested, check out these two sound files? a 14 second "instructions" test. http://wiki.hindu.org/outgoing/instructions.mp3 http://wiki.hindu.org/outgoing/instructions.wav From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Mon Aug 8 11:53:14 2016 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2016 11:53:14 -0400 Subject: <> is no longer available In-Reply-To: <007901d1f18a$35ecfe80$a1c6fb80$@net> References: <006c01d1f177$33185550$9948fff0$@net> <57EB5AB7-7EA0-4A1F-A3DB-44970F8DCC30@madmansoft.com> <007901d1f18a$35ecfe80$a1c6fb80$@net> Message-ID: It's really bizarre. When I went into xcode, for all of the profiles that I've created, there were duplicates, with expiration dates that were the same as the originals (all are months away, but none are August, 2017, which seems to rule out something changing in the last few days). The certs, etc. haven't changed, either, and in the dev portal there were no dupes. I did a download all, then launched LC to see what it thought. It lost the link to the profiles, so I wound up re-connecting, recompiling, and redistributing. What a PITA. On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 11:33 AM, Ralph DiMola wrote: > If you have not changed any of your dev certs/profiles on the Apple dev > site and nothing is expired on the Apple dev site, I am at a loss. > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > > -----Original Message----- > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On > Behalf Of Mike Kerner > Sent: Monday, August 08, 2016 10:20 AM > To: How to use LiveCode > Subject: Re: <> is no longer available > > I don't have a new provisioning profile. That's what's so weird. Nothing > is new. > > On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 10:02 AM, Stephen MacLean > wrote: > > > Hi Mike, > > > > You may need to compile a new version with the new developer > > provisioning profile. Once they are expired, your app won?t work and > > needs to be re-complied with the new one. > > > > hth, > > > > Steve MacLean > > > > > On Aug 8, 2016, at 9:58 AM, Mike Kerner > > wrote: > > > > > > yep. I did all that. Everything is current, the account is paid > > > up, > > and I > > > haven't compiled a new version in a couple of months, so it's odd... > > > > > > On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 9:17 AM, Ralph DiMola > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > >> Check to see if the dev certificate or the provisioning profile > > >> have expired. Also if you delete the old dev certificate and create > > >> a new one then you have to reset the provisioning profiles(edit > > >> nothing and save) > > for > > >> all your dev provision profiles. Any monkeying with provisioning > > profiles > > >> require the app to be re-linked and re-installed on the device. > > >> > > >> Ralph DiMola > > >> IT Director > > >> Evergreen Information Services > > >> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > >> > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] > > >> On Behalf Of Mike Kerner > > >> Sent: Monday, August 08, 2016 9:07 AM > > >> To: How to use LiveCode > > >> Subject: <> is no longer avilable > > >> > > >> One of our custom ios apps, that we have installed on multiple > > >> devices internally, as of this morning is either crashing without > > >> message or putting up the message that the app is no longer > > >> available. If I attempt to uninstall and reinstall it, no joy. I > > >> check the provisioning profile, > > and > > >> it is current. > > >> > > >> -- > > >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the > > >> second > > day, > > >> God created the oceans. > > >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > >> and did a little diving. > > >> And God said, "This is good." > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> use-livecode mailing list > > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > >> subscription > > >> preferences: > > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > >> > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> use-livecode mailing list > > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > >> subscription preferences: > > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the > > > second day, God created the oceans. > > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > > and did a little diving. > > > And God said, "This is good." > > > _______________________________________________ > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, > God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Aug 8 12:18:48 2016 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2016 09:18:48 -0700 Subject: Secure sockets problem... any update? In-Reply-To: <963CF2AC-F408-4B87-A306-D4E16292B327@madmansoft.com> References: <963CF2AC-F408-4B87-A306-D4E16292B327@madmansoft.com> Message-ID: <7c19842c-3b72-d181-cb5f-806e05ec169c@fourthworld.com> Stephen MacLean wrote: > With all that went on in the LC conference, I was wondering if there > was any update to the secure sockets problem I reported here: > > http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16871 and When status changes occur in a report the submitter and any subscribers to the report should receive notification via email. Panos confirmed the report just prior to the conference, and today is their first full day back since the conference. Given that the issue is flagged for "Expert Review" and the experts had been immersed in the conference, it would seem the report is as current as it can be at the moment, but hopefully will be investigated very soon. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From livfoss at mac.com Mon Aug 8 12:45:03 2016 From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel) Date: Mon, 08 Aug 2016 18:45:03 +0200 Subject: <> is no longer available In-Reply-To: References: <006c01d1f177$33185550$9948fff0$@net> <57EB5AB7-7EA0-4A1F-A3DB-44970F8DCC30@madmansoft.com> <007901d1f18a$35ecfe80$a1c6fb80$@net> Message-ID: <6A02E260-984C-4F56-A7BD-7648DDDAD237@mac.com> Just reading this conversation fully justifies (IMHO) the idea (in another thread) of a workshop on deployment, including a jargon-buster element. A PITA indeed, and truly scary for someone who?s never published an iOS app, however comfortable they may be with LC itself. Graham > On 8 Aug 2016, at 17:53, Mike Kerner wrote: > > It's really bizarre. When I went into xcode, for all of the profiles that > I've created, there were duplicates, with expiration dates that were the > same as the originals (all are months away, but none are August, 2017, > which seems to rule out something changing in the last few days). The > certs, etc. haven't changed, either, and in the dev portal there were no > dupes. I did a download all, then launched LC to see what it thought. It > lost the link to the profiles, so I wound up re-connecting, recompiling, > and redistributing. What a PITA. > > On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 11:33 AM, Ralph DiMola > wrote: > >> If you have not changed any of your dev certs/profiles on the Apple dev >> site and nothing is expired on the Apple dev site, I am at a loss. >> >> Ralph DiMola >> IT Director >> Evergreen Information Services >> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On >> Behalf Of Mike Kerner >> Sent: Monday, August 08, 2016 10:20 AM >> To: How to use LiveCode >> Subject: Re: <> is no longer available >> >> I don't have a new provisioning profile. That's what's so weird. Nothing >> is new. >> >> On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 10:02 AM, Stephen MacLean >> wrote: >> >>> Hi Mike, >>> >>> You may need to compile a new version with the new developer >>> provisioning profile. Once they are expired, your app won?t work and >>> needs to be re-complied with the new one. >>> >>> hth, >>> >>> Steve MacLean >>> >>>> On Aug 8, 2016, at 9:58 AM, Mike Kerner >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> yep. I did all that. Everything is current, the account is paid >>>> up, >>> and I >>>> haven't compiled a new version in a couple of months, so it's odd... >>>> >>>> On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 9:17 AM, Ralph DiMola >>>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Check to see if the dev certificate or the provisioning profile >>>>> have expired. Also if you delete the old dev certificate and create >>>>> a new one then you have to reset the provisioning profiles(edit >>>>> nothing and save) >>> for >>>>> all your dev provision profiles. Any monkeying with provisioning >>> profiles >>>>> require the app to be re-linked and re-installed on the device. >>>>> >>>>> Ralph DiMola >>>>> IT Director >>>>> Evergreen Information Services >>>>> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] >>>>> On Behalf Of Mike Kerner >>>>> Sent: Monday, August 08, 2016 9:07 AM >>>>> To: How to use LiveCode >>>>> Subject: <> is no longer avilable >>>>> >>>>> One of our custom ios apps, that we have installed on multiple >>>>> devices internally, as of this morning is either crashing without >>>>> message or putting up the message that the app is no longer >>>>> available. If I attempt to uninstall and reinstall it, no joy. I >>>>> check the provisioning profile, >>> and >>>>> it is current. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the >>>>> second >>> day, >>>>> God created the oceans. >>>>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >>>>> and did a little diving. >>>>> And God said, "This is good." >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription >>>>> preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the >>>> second day, God created the oceans. >>>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >>>> and did a little diving. >>>> And God said, "This is good." >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, >> God created the oceans. >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >> and did a little diving. >> And God said, "This is good." >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From smaclean at madmansoft.com Mon Aug 8 13:17:52 2016 From: smaclean at madmansoft.com (Stephen MacLean) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2016 13:17:52 -0400 Subject: Secure sockets problem... any update? In-Reply-To: <7c19842c-3b72-d181-cb5f-806e05ec169c@fourthworld.com> References: <963CF2AC-F408-4B87-A306-D4E16292B327@madmansoft.com> <7c19842c-3b72-d181-cb5f-806e05ec169c@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Hi Richard, Thanks for adding yourself to the CC list on this bug:) I think you may be reading the post from Panos with the wrong date though, understandable given all of us being on EU date format the last week with the conference. Panos confirmed it on Feb 2 (2016-02-08) and changed it to "Expert Review? then. My ?Any update? post on the bug report was on Aug 6 (2016-08-06). Thanks again for the reply. Best, Steve MacLean > On Aug 8, 2016, at 12:18 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > Stephen MacLean wrote: > > > With all that went on in the LC conference, I was wondering if there > > was any update to the secure sockets problem I reported here: > > > > http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16871 and > > When status changes occur in a report the submitter and any subscribers to the report should receive notification via email. > > Panos confirmed the report just prior to the conference, and today is their first full day back since the conference. Given that the issue is flagged for "Expert Review" and the experts had been immersed in the conference, it would seem the report is as current as it can be at the moment, but hopefully will be investigated very soon. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Mon Aug 8 14:03:01 2016 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2016 14:03:01 -0400 Subject: <> is no longer available In-Reply-To: <6A02E260-984C-4F56-A7BD-7648DDDAD237@mac.com> References: <006c01d1f177$33185550$9948fff0$@net> <57EB5AB7-7EA0-4A1F-A3DB-44970F8DCC30@madmansoft.com> <007901d1f18a$35ecfe80$a1c6fb80$@net> <6A02E260-984C-4F56-A7BD-7648DDDAD237@mac.com> Message-ID: I agree. ios deployment can be an irritating experience, and ad-hoc deployment (deploying out of the app store) can also be annoying, at times. If I didn't do this fairly frequently, and have to fight with it occasionally, today would have been a lot longer and uglier. On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 12:45 PM, Graham Samuel wrote: > Just reading this conversation fully justifies (IMHO) the idea (in another > thread) of a workshop on deployment, including a jargon-buster element. A > PITA indeed, and truly scary for someone who?s never published an iOS app, > however comfortable they may be with LC itself. > > Graham > > > On 8 Aug 2016, at 17:53, Mike Kerner wrote: > > > > It's really bizarre. When I went into xcode, for all of the profiles > that > > I've created, there were duplicates, with expiration dates that were the > > same as the originals (all are months away, but none are August, 2017, > > which seems to rule out something changing in the last few days). The > > certs, etc. haven't changed, either, and in the dev portal there were no > > dupes. I did a download all, then launched LC to see what it thought. > It > > lost the link to the profiles, so I wound up re-connecting, recompiling, > > and redistributing. What a PITA. > > > > On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 11:33 AM, Ralph DiMola > > > wrote: > > > >> If you have not changed any of your dev certs/profiles on the Apple dev > >> site and nothing is expired on the Apple dev site, I am at a loss. > >> > >> Ralph DiMola > >> IT Director > >> Evergreen Information Services > >> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On > >> Behalf Of Mike Kerner > >> Sent: Monday, August 08, 2016 10:20 AM > >> To: How to use LiveCode > >> Subject: Re: <> is no longer available > >> > >> I don't have a new provisioning profile. That's what's so weird. > Nothing > >> is new. > >> > >> On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 10:02 AM, Stephen MacLean < > smaclean at madmansoft.com> > >> wrote: > >> > >>> Hi Mike, > >>> > >>> You may need to compile a new version with the new developer > >>> provisioning profile. Once they are expired, your app won?t work and > >>> needs to be re-complied with the new one. > >>> > >>> hth, > >>> > >>> Steve MacLean > >>> > >>>> On Aug 8, 2016, at 9:58 AM, Mike Kerner > >>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> yep. I did all that. Everything is current, the account is paid > >>>> up, > >>> and I > >>>> haven't compiled a new version in a couple of months, so it's odd... > >>>> > >>>> On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 9:17 AM, Ralph DiMola > >>>> > >>>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Check to see if the dev certificate or the provisioning profile > >>>>> have expired. Also if you delete the old dev certificate and create > >>>>> a new one then you have to reset the provisioning profiles(edit > >>>>> nothing and save) > >>> for > >>>>> all your dev provision profiles. Any monkeying with provisioning > >>> profiles > >>>>> require the app to be re-linked and re-installed on the device. > >>>>> > >>>>> Ralph DiMola > >>>>> IT Director > >>>>> Evergreen Information Services > >>>>> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] > >>>>> On Behalf Of Mike Kerner > >>>>> Sent: Monday, August 08, 2016 9:07 AM > >>>>> To: How to use LiveCode > >>>>> Subject: <> is no longer avilable > >>>>> > >>>>> One of our custom ios apps, that we have installed on multiple > >>>>> devices internally, as of this morning is either crashing without > >>>>> message or putting up the message that the app is no longer > >>>>> available. If I attempt to uninstall and reinstall it, no joy. I > >>>>> check the provisioning profile, > >>> and > >>>>> it is current. > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the > >>>>> second > >>> day, > >>>>> God created the oceans. > >>>>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > >>>>> and did a little diving. > >>>>> And God said, "This is good." > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> use-livecode mailing list > >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >>>>> subscription > >>>>> preferences: > >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> use-livecode mailing list > >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >>>>> subscription preferences: > >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the > >>>> second day, God created the oceans. > >>>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > >>>> and did a little diving. > >>>> And God said, "This is good." > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> use-livecode mailing list > >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >>> subscription preferences: > >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> use-livecode mailing list > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >>> subscription preferences: > >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second > day, > >> God created the oceans. > >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > >> and did a little diving. > >> And God said, "This is good." > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > and did a little diving. > > And God said, "This is good." > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Aug 8 14:14:32 2016 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2016 13:14:32 -0500 Subject: [ ANN ] Release 8.1.0 DP-3 In-Reply-To: References: <1470487516172-4707321.post@n4.nabble.com> <524671a7-bdca-1e04-0b96-e5bd07515533@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <7c23981b-dbdf-b26f-e9aa-fb2f20002ca8@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/8/2016 6:40 AM, Trevor DeVore wrote: > On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 2:41 PM, J. Landman Gay > wrote: > >> >> During my brief forray, I discovered that the same simple LCB script threw >> the "format not supported" error if my formatting included tabs. Replacing >> tabs with spaces made it work again. I looked at your "round corners" >> widget and it had tabs too, and so it failed. Is that the main restriction >> now? Is there a reason why tabs aren't allowed any more? > > > I'm not aware of an issues with tabs in 8.1. I just tried compiling a > widget that has tabs in it and I didn't see any errors. > It's odd then. I had a verbatim script from the LCB tutorial, it wouldn't compile at all in 8.1, it threw the "format not supported" error. I replaced the tabs with spaces and the error went away. I wonder if it's because I use BBEdit for editing. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From alex at tweedly.net Mon Aug 8 14:26:02 2016 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2016 19:26:02 +0100 Subject: OT: Switch it off and back on ... Message-ID: <62deac9f-7169-18a5-59dc-219bedf373d2@tweedly.net> My wife is always annoyed / amused that my stock response to any non-trivial computer / broadband / phone problem is the magic "power-cycle" method. As she says "4 years getting a BSc in Computer Science, 25 years in the electronics design and software business - and that's the best you can do". I suspect the most annoying part for her is that it nearly always works :-) Anyway, today that technique just worked again - when even I didn't expect it to. Her new iPhone (two weeks old) was in trouble - it wouldn't charge. We tried multiple different connector cables, and power sources just to be sure - but it just wouldn't register the power supply, and power was down to around 10%. So I made sure we had a current iCloud backup, installed Telegram on her iPad while she still had some charge left (to get the SMS to confirm the main phone number) so she could still get/send messages (and let the main contacts know via What's App). And then (with NO expectations of success) switched it off and back on - and the darn thing is now happily charging. Why can't we build tech items that don't suffer such problems and get fixed by this solution .... -- Alex. From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Aug 8 14:56:13 2016 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2016 11:56:13 -0700 Subject: Secure sockets problem... any update? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20f05b3a-8b8b-d2b0-d902-861f82706b9a@fourthworld.com> Stephen MacLean wrote: > Hi Richard, > > Thanks for adding yourself to the CC list on this bug:) It's an important bug, very much looking forward to following its progress. Thank you for providing a link to it here. > I think you may be reading the post from Panos with the wrong date > though, understandable given all of us being on EU date format the > last week with the conference. > > Panos confirmed it on Feb 2 (2016-02-08) and changed it to "Expert > Review? then. My ?Any update? post on the bug report was on Aug 6 > (2016-08-06). Yes indeed, I was quite mistaken. Thanks for drawing my attention to that. I had glanced near the top of the report and misread the order of the date elements, completely overlooking the light-gray date on Panos' post. That your "tickle" of the report came only after a very patient waiting period is not surprising; you've always seemed a patient person. It's just so rare these days that something of this significance remains outstanding for that long that I was clearly over-confident about the follow-up there. With the recent tickle, fingers crossed it'll get some love shortly. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com Mon Aug 8 15:52:21 2016 From: stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com (stephen barncard) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2016 12:52:21 -0700 Subject: Play MP3 - What format do you use for mobile? In-Reply-To: <232DEEFB-CADD-406A-9B7A-5ABF50D93C28@hindu.org> References: <3C681F52-848C-4ABC-B97A-56827C2018A7@hindu.org> <232DEEFB-CADD-406A-9B7A-5ABF50D93C28@hindu.org> Message-ID: Brahma, did you turn off Quicktime? We have a new audio foundation in LC. I'm about to test it myself for the first time. I tried many times to RECORD something today... and nothing worked until I did this ( on LC 8.0.1 indy) *set dontUseQT to false; answer record; put the result* look at all the new formats we can record... clearly all the new formats too like m4a of various flavors. I would assume we can play them back too now.. this is quite exciting...... to be continued. Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA - mixstream.org From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Mon Aug 8 15:54:48 2016 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2016 19:54:48 +0000 Subject: Secure sockets problem... any update? In-Reply-To: <20f05b3a-8b8b-d2b0-d902-861f82706b9a@fourthworld.com> References: <20f05b3a-8b8b-d2b0-d902-861f82706b9a@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <741F7F26-0E6A-4BEB-B2E7-AF6A68B01407@iotecdigital.com> If the issue is SSL 4.0 vs 3.0 or TLS 1.2 vs. 1.0, it all goes back to the heartbleed exploit and the countermeasures for that. Bob S > On Aug 8, 2016, at 11:56 , Richard Gaskin wrote: > > Stephen MacLean wrote: > > > Hi Richard, > > > > Thanks for adding yourself to the CC list on this bug:) > > It's an important bug, very much looking forward to following its progress. Thank you for providing a link to it here. > > > > I think you may be reading the post from Panos with the wrong date > > though, understandable given all of us being on EU date format the > > last week with the conference. > > > > Panos confirmed it on Feb 2 (2016-02-08) and changed it to "Expert > > Review? then. My ?Any update? post on the bug report was on Aug 6 > > (2016-08-06). > > Yes indeed, I was quite mistaken. Thanks for drawing my attention to that. I had glanced near the top of the report and misread the order of the date elements, completely overlooking the light-gray date on Panos' post. > > That your "tickle" of the report came only after a very patient waiting period is not surprising; you've always seemed a patient person. > > It's just so rare these days that something of this significance remains outstanding for that long that I was clearly over-confident about the follow-up there. > > With the recent tickle, fingers crossed it'll get some love shortly. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Mon Aug 8 16:45:41 2016 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2016 20:45:41 +0000 Subject: defaultfolder in a Mac standalone References: <2C6FF3E7-F4D0-4E26-8E0A-12045059352B@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <5E41368B-AD5D-4B4D-89B3-3EB4399291B8@iotecdigital.com> Hi all. I got a bug report from a user (please see below). Note the line that is causing the problem. "put the defaultfolder into tOldDefaultFolder" should NOT be causing this problem. Note it is only happening on a Mac running OS X El Capitan. Is there any way sandboxing might be preventing Livecode executables from getting the default folder?? Bob S Begin forwarded message: From: Kris Barizo > Subject: Error Report Date: August 8, 2016 at 9:39:55 AM PDT To: Bob Sneidar > Executing at 9:39:17 AM on Monday, August 8, 2016 Type: put: error in expression Object: button 'Utilities' of card 'Main' of stack '/Users/Shared/Forms Generator.app/Contents/MacOS/Forms Generator 8.livecode' Line: put the defaultfolder into tOldDefaultFolder Line Num: 1810 Hint: getAdobeApp Comments: From jerry at jhjensen.com Mon Aug 8 17:00:17 2016 From: jerry at jhjensen.com (Jerry Jensen) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2016 14:00:17 -0700 Subject: Play MP3 - What format do you use for mobile? In-Reply-To: References: <3C681F52-848C-4ABC-B97A-56827C2018A7@hindu.org> <232DEEFB-CADD-406A-9B7A-5ABF50D93C28@hindu.org> Message-ID: <1055C7DB-28D1-4E90-A2AE-DC67A5E10AC6@jhjensen.com> Stephen: see bug http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18160 Something isn?t right with dontUseQT. .Jerry > On Aug 8, 2016, at 12:52 PM, stephen barncard wrote: > > Brahma, > > did you turn off Quicktime? > > > We have a new audio foundation in LC. I'm about to test it myself for the > first time. > > I tried many times to RECORD something today... and nothing worked until I > did this ( on LC 8.0.1 indy) > > *set dontUseQT to false; answer record; put the result* > > > look at all the new formats we can record... > clearly all the new formats too like m4a of various flavors. > > I would assume we can play them back too now.. > > this is quite exciting...... > > to be continued. > > Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA - > mixstream.org > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com Mon Aug 8 17:17:33 2016 From: stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com (stephen barncard) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2016 14:17:33 -0700 Subject: Play MP3 - What format do you use for mobile? In-Reply-To: <1055C7DB-28D1-4E90-A2AE-DC67A5E10AC6@jhjensen.com> References: <3C681F52-848C-4ABC-B97A-56827C2018A7@hindu.org> <232DEEFB-CADD-406A-9B7A-5ABF50D93C28@hindu.org> <1055C7DB-28D1-4E90-A2AE-DC67A5E10AC6@jhjensen.com> Message-ID: at least I got the new dialog up. Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA - mixstream.org On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 2:00 PM, Jerry Jensen wrote: > Stephen: see bug http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18160 > Something isn?t right with dontUseQT. > .Jerry > > > On Aug 8, 2016, at 12:52 PM, stephen barncard < > stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com> wrote: > > > > Brahma, > > > > did you turn off Quicktime? > > > > > > We have a new audio foundation in LC. I'm about to test it myself for the > > first time. > > > > I tried many times to RECORD something today... and nothing worked until > I > > did this ( on LC 8.0.1 indy) > > > > *set dontUseQT to false; answer record; put the result* > > > > > > look at all the new formats we can record... > > clearly all the new formats too like m4a of various flavors. > > > > I would assume we can play them back too now.. > > > > this is quite exciting...... > > > > to be continued. > > > > Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA - > > mixstream.org > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From jerry at jhjensen.com Mon Aug 8 17:23:50 2016 From: jerry at jhjensen.com (Jerry Jensen) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2016 14:23:50 -0700 Subject: Play MP3 - What format do you use for mobile? In-Reply-To: References: <3C681F52-848C-4ABC-B97A-56827C2018A7@hindu.org> <232DEEFB-CADD-406A-9B7A-5ABF50D93C28@hindu.org> <1055C7DB-28D1-4E90-A2AE-DC67A5E10AC6@jhjensen.com> Message-ID: <7B411280-E29D-4FC1-A184-B8A0AAA29E89@jhjensen.com> And I?m happy that you did! I never knew of it. Someday I hope to use it, but not right now. Also see bug 18161 which is a follow-up to 18160. Eesh. .Jerry > On Aug 8, 2016, at 2:17 PM, stephen barncard wrote: > > at least I got the new dialog up. > > Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA - > mixstream.org > > On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 2:00 PM, Jerry Jensen wrote: > >> Stephen: see bug http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18160 >> Something isn?t right with dontUseQT. >> .Jerry >> >>> On Aug 8, 2016, at 12:52 PM, stephen barncard < >> stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com> wrote: >>> >>> Brahma, >>> >>> did you turn off Quicktime? >>> >>> >>> We have a new audio foundation in LC. I'm about to test it myself for the >>> first time. >>> >>> I tried many times to RECORD something today... and nothing worked until >> I >>> did this ( on LC 8.0.1 indy) >>> >>> *set dontUseQT to false; answer record; put the result* >>> >>> >>> look at all the new formats we can record... >>> clearly all the new formats too like m4a of various flavors. >>> >>> I would assume we can play them back too now.. >>> >>> this is quite exciting...... >>> >>> to be continued. >>> >>> Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA - >>> mixstream.org >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From monte at appisle.net Mon Aug 8 19:24:09 2016 From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2016 09:24:09 +1000 Subject: Play MP3 - What format do you use for mobile? In-Reply-To: <7B411280-E29D-4FC1-A184-B8A0AAA29E89@jhjensen.com> References: <3C681F52-848C-4ABC-B97A-56827C2018A7@hindu.org> <232DEEFB-CADD-406A-9B7A-5ABF50D93C28@hindu.org> <1055C7DB-28D1-4E90-A2AE-DC67A5E10AC6@jhjensen.com> <7B411280-E29D-4FC1-A184-B8A0AAA29E89@jhjensen.com> Message-ID: > On 9 Aug 2016, at 7:23 AM, Jerry Jensen wrote: > > And I?m happy that you did! I never knew of it. Someday I hope to use it, but not right now. > Also see bug 18161 which is a follow-up to 18160. Eesh. QuickTime is now deprecated. We are implementing cross platform audio recording as an example implementation of Infinite LiveCode. Until then there is no audio recording support on Windows at all or on Mac with dontUseQT true. QT is a very old API and is unsupported by Apple. It should be avoided unless you are specifically targeting 10.6 or 10.7 systems. If someone has urgent need for Mac audio recording then it is quite feasible that the open source mergMicrophone could be made to cross compile to Mac. Cheers Monte From jerry at jhjensen.com Mon Aug 8 19:45:21 2016 From: jerry at jhjensen.com (Jerry Jensen) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2016 16:45:21 -0700 Subject: Play MP3 - What format do you use for mobile? In-Reply-To: References: <3C681F52-848C-4ABC-B97A-56827C2018A7@hindu.org> <232DEEFB-CADD-406A-9B7A-5ABF50D93C28@hindu.org> <1055C7DB-28D1-4E90-A2AE-DC67A5E10AC6@jhjensen.com> <7B411280-E29D-4FC1-A184-B8A0AAA29E89@jhjensen.com> Message-ID: <3376DDB3-8FBC-4B3A-9968-7E714C9158A3@jhjensen.com> > On Aug 8, 2016, at 4:24 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > > >> On 9 Aug 2016, at 7:23 AM, Jerry Jensen wrote: >> >> And I?m happy that you did! I never knew of it. Someday I hope to use it, but not right now. >> Also see bug 18161 which is a follow-up to 18160. Eesh. > > QuickTime is now deprecated. We are implementing cross platform audio recording as an example implementation of Infinite LiveCode. Until then there is no audio recording support on Windows at all or on Mac with dontUseQT true. QT is a very old API and is unsupported by Apple. It should be avoided unless you are specifically targeting 10.6 or 10.7 systems. If someone has urgent need for Mac audio recording then it is quite feasible that the open source mergMicrophone could be made to cross compile to Mac. Thanks Monte. Ah, I see! The 8.1 dictionary says that too. I just hadn?t looked there, still using 8.0.1. I guess its a documentation bug in 8.0.1 that doesn?t describe what actually happens in 8.0.1. I suppose if I am going to whine about a bug I really should check it on the very latest DP. It still shouldn?t crash on quit even if an ignoramus like me tries to use it. Onward, Jerry From capellan2000 at gmail.com Mon Aug 8 20:05:16 2016 From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2016 20:05:16 -0400 Subject: SVG Editors, anyone? Message-ID: Hi Graham, Could you use the browser widget to render a svg as png? Take a look at this javascript code that shows 3 different methods to create a transparent png from svg files: http://techslides.com/save-svg-as-an-image This works really fine: http://techslides.com/demos/d3/convert-svg-png.html Alejandro On Mon, 08 Aug 2016, Graham Samuel wrote: > Yes, I?m assuming that the SVG capabilities of widgets > will develop until pretty much any SVG graphic can be rendered: > this could of course be wrong. > But I would be very sad if we have to stick to monochrome > for any serious work. After all, complex controls, which is > what widgets are, are certain to demand colour sooner > rather than later, and since scalability is the most attractive > thing about widgets that I?ve seen so far, I very much hope > this can be achieved via SVG. > OTOH at the conference I don?t think I heard anyone > from the mother ship talking about plans to enrich > SVG rendering. > If anyone knows anything more definite, please tell us! > Graham From stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com Mon Aug 8 20:11:13 2016 From: stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com (stephen barncard) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2016 17:11:13 -0700 Subject: Play MP3 - What format do you use for mobile? In-Reply-To: <3376DDB3-8FBC-4B3A-9968-7E714C9158A3@jhjensen.com> References: <3C681F52-848C-4ABC-B97A-56827C2018A7@hindu.org> <232DEEFB-CADD-406A-9B7A-5ABF50D93C28@hindu.org> <1055C7DB-28D1-4E90-A2AE-DC67A5E10AC6@jhjensen.com> <7B411280-E29D-4FC1-A184-B8A0AAA29E89@jhjensen.com> <3376DDB3-8FBC-4B3A-9968-7E714C9158A3@jhjensen.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 4:45 PM, Jerry Jensen wrote: > t still shouldn?t crash on quit even if an ignoramus like me tries to use > it. > > Onward, > Jerry > so wait. The new recording panel works, but actually trying to record something doesn't? Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA - mixstream.org From monte at appisle.net Mon Aug 8 20:14:43 2016 From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2016 10:14:43 +1000 Subject: Play MP3 - What format do you use for mobile? In-Reply-To: <3376DDB3-8FBC-4B3A-9968-7E714C9158A3@jhjensen.com> References: <3C681F52-848C-4ABC-B97A-56827C2018A7@hindu.org> <232DEEFB-CADD-406A-9B7A-5ABF50D93C28@hindu.org> <1055C7DB-28D1-4E90-A2AE-DC67A5E10AC6@jhjensen.com> <7B411280-E29D-4FC1-A184-B8A0AAA29E89@jhjensen.com> <3376DDB3-8FBC-4B3A-9968-7E714C9158A3@jhjensen.com> Message-ID: > On 9 Aug 2016, at 9:45 AM, Jerry Jensen wrote: > > It still shouldn?t crash on quit even if an ignoramus like me tries to use it. Yes if you are getting a crash under any circumstances in LiveCode we need a bug report about it so we can track it down but in this case testing to ensure you are experiencing it in 8.1 would be a good idea as so much has changed in relation to QuickTime. Cheers Monte From jerry at jhjensen.com Mon Aug 8 21:44:47 2016 From: jerry at jhjensen.com (Jerry Jensen) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2016 18:44:47 -0700 Subject: Play MP3 - What format do you use for mobile? In-Reply-To: References: <3C681F52-848C-4ABC-B97A-56827C2018A7@hindu.org> <232DEEFB-CADD-406A-9B7A-5ABF50D93C28@hindu.org> <1055C7DB-28D1-4E90-A2AE-DC67A5E10AC6@jhjensen.com> <7B411280-E29D-4FC1-A184-B8A0AAA29E89@jhjensen.com> <3376DDB3-8FBC-4B3A-9968-7E714C9158A3@jhjensen.com> Message-ID: <2DBB1ADD-AD59-46E2-9A35-DD13112A0AA9@jhjensen.com> > On Aug 8, 2016, at 5:14 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > > >> On 9 Aug 2016, at 9:45 AM, Jerry Jensen wrote: >> >> It still shouldn?t crash on quit even if an ignoramus like me tries to use it. > > Yes if you are getting a crash under any circumstances in LiveCode we need a bug report about it so we can track it down but in this case testing to ensure you are experiencing it in 8.1 would be a good idea as so much has changed in relation to QuickTime. Just checked, it crashes in 8.1 DP3 as well. I?ll add to the bug report. .Jerry From monte at appisle.net Mon Aug 8 21:45:53 2016 From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2016 11:45:53 +1000 Subject: Play MP3 - What format do you use for mobile? In-Reply-To: <2DBB1ADD-AD59-46E2-9A35-DD13112A0AA9@jhjensen.com> References: <3C681F52-848C-4ABC-B97A-56827C2018A7@hindu.org> <232DEEFB-CADD-406A-9B7A-5ABF50D93C28@hindu.org> <1055C7DB-28D1-4E90-A2AE-DC67A5E10AC6@jhjensen.com> <7B411280-E29D-4FC1-A184-B8A0AAA29E89@jhjensen.com> <3376DDB3-8FBC-4B3A-9968-7E714C9158A3@jhjensen.com> <2DBB1ADD-AD59-46E2-9A35-DD13112A0AA9@jhjensen.com> Message-ID: <398245E7-1434-44F7-8B8F-DF56C438A646@appisle.net> > On 9 Aug 2016, at 11:44 AM, Jerry Jensen wrote: > > Just checked, it crashes in 8.1 DP3 as well. I?ll add to the bug report. Thanks Cheers Monte From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Mon Aug 8 22:00:00 2016 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2016 10:00:00 +0800 Subject: [SQL] placeholders work for SQLite but not for mySQL In-Reply-To: References: <86257102-B1A3-4945-879B-3E1A682A8388@laposte.net> <558AB8D7-F5E3-4919-86D0-EBB9D3CA953A@laposte.net> Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 11:46 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: > > It doesn't explain the difference between using a parameter vs an embedded > value, you should get the same result either way. I think you should submit > a bug report. > Yes I would if other's were seeing the same thing so I first need to rule out something strange with my set-up. As I said I'll get around to completely rebuilding the db and I'll even copy and paste the entire script into a text editor and back into the stack and see if that makes any difference (I've used that to solve other problems). If that doesn't fix it I'll then try and build a small demo stack + db and see if I can reproduce it. Thanks for you input. From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Mon Aug 8 22:12:11 2016 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2016 10:12:11 +0800 Subject: [ ANN ] Release 8.1.0 DP-3 In-Reply-To: <7c23981b-dbdf-b26f-e9aa-fb2f20002ca8@hyperactivesw.com> References: <1470487516172-4707321.post@n4.nabble.com> <524671a7-bdca-1e04-0b96-e5bd07515533@hyperactivesw.com> <7c23981b-dbdf-b26f-e9aa-fb2f20002ca8@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 2:14 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > I wonder if it's because I use BBEdit for editing. I hope not. I've only had a minor poke around LCB but I regularly use BBEdit to fix 'anomalies' with my scripts in LC and find it indispensable. From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Mon Aug 8 22:50:18 2016 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2016 10:50:18 +0800 Subject: OT: Switch it off and back on ... In-Reply-To: <62deac9f-7169-18a5-59dc-219bedf373d2@tweedly.net> References: <62deac9f-7169-18a5-59dc-219bedf373d2@tweedly.net> Message-ID: On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 2:26 AM, Alex Tweedly wrote: > Why can't we build tech items that don't suffer such problems and get fixed > by this solution .... > Well God couldn't do it with all his creations but instead ensured there was an impossible to ignore signal of when to switch off at the end of the day and when to get back to work next morning. Of course only man tries to ignore the unignorable, burns the candle from both ends, and tries to work non-stop for stupidly long periods of time but the effect is inevitable, like the objects man makes, they stop responding like they should and must be given the opportunity to be 'reset'. So if 'man' is the most complex of all creations, maybe we should take the hint and just build in an unignorable signal that our lesser creation needs to be turned off and back on every so often ;-) From blueback09 at gmail.com Tue Aug 9 01:08:22 2016 From: blueback09 at gmail.com (Matt Maier) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2016 08:08:22 +0300 Subject: OT: Switch it off and back on ... In-Reply-To: <62deac9f-7169-18a5-59dc-219bedf373d2@tweedly.net> References: <62deac9f-7169-18a5-59dc-219bedf373d2@tweedly.net> Message-ID: Because we're capable of building systems more complex than we can understand. So there are always ghost states it can get into that we didn't prepare for. I was reading about "crash only" programming a while ago. It like using the "turn it off and back on again"approach as a part of normal business. Since all of your systems need to be able to recover from a crash anyway, why bother programming a graceful shutdown? Just set them up so that they can pick up where they left off and crash them if anything isn't running perfectly. On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 9:26 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote: > My wife is always annoyed / amused that my stock response to any > non-trivial computer / broadband / phone problem is the magic "power-cycle" > method. As she says "4 years getting a BSc in Computer Science, 25 years in > the electronics design and software business - and that's the best you can > do". I suspect the most annoying part for her is that it nearly always > works :-) > > Anyway, today that technique just worked again - when even I didn't expect > it to. Her new iPhone (two weeks old) was in trouble - it wouldn't charge. > We tried multiple different connector cables, and power sources just to be > sure - but it just wouldn't register the power supply, and power was down > to around 10%. So I made sure we had a current iCloud backup, installed > Telegram on her iPad while she still had some charge left (to get the SMS > to confirm the main phone number) so she could still get/send messages (and > let the main contacts know via What's App). And then (with NO expectations > of success) switched it off and back on - and the darn thing is now happily > charging. > > Why can't we build tech items that don't suffer such problems and get > fixed by this solution .... > > -- Alex. > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From livfoss at mac.com Tue Aug 9 04:06:02 2016 From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel) Date: Tue, 09 Aug 2016 10:06:02 +0200 Subject: SVG Editors, anyone? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <566BDDE1-8FBE-4F2C-AB8C-84513CB73448@mac.com> Thanks for the thought, Alejandro, but I don?t see how this would work when it comes to scaling. My idea would be to adapt the size of the widget to the screen size as part of the standalone, by simply changing its dimensions, and voila! the graphics in the widget would always look good. If I had to prepare a PNG for each size of screen, wouldn?t I have to do that at build time and maintain lots of differently sized PNGs instead of one single code-and-graphics base? Or maybe I don?t quite understand what you are suggesting. The technique you suggest does look powerful, though, for preparation of apps where only one screen size is envisaged. Thanks again Graham > On 9 Aug 2016, at 02:05, Alejandro Tejada wrote: > > Hi Graham, > > Could you use the browser widget to > render a svg as png? > > Take a look at this javascript code > that shows 3 different methods > to create a transparent png > from svg files: > http://techslides.com/save-svg-as-an-image > > This works really fine: > http://techslides.com/demos/d3/convert-svg-png.html > > Alejandro > > On Mon, 08 Aug 2016, > Graham Samuel wrote: > >> Yes, I?m assuming that the SVG capabilities of widgets >> will develop until pretty much any SVG graphic can be rendered: >> this could of course be wrong. > >> But I would be very sad if we have to stick to monochrome >> for any serious work. After all, complex controls, which is >> what widgets are, are certain to demand colour sooner >> rather than later, and since scalability is the most attractive >> thing about widgets that I?ve seen so far, I very much hope >> this can be achieved via SVG. > >> OTOH at the conference I don?t think I heard anyone >> from the mother ship talking about plans to enrich >> SVG rendering. > >> If anyone knows anything more definite, please tell us! > >> Graham > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From preid at reidit.co.uk Tue Aug 9 06:05:43 2016 From: preid at reidit.co.uk (Peter Reid) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2016 11:05:43 +0100 Subject: use-livecode Digest, Vol 155, Issue 15 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks Mike and Richmond, I'll take a look at autoit as I don't want to get into VB unless I REALLY have to! I was hoping that a short VBA script might do the job so I can use LC for the file/folder management, but autoit may be the solution anyway. Peter -- Peter Reid Loughborough, UK > On 8 Aug 2016, at 11:00am, use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com wrote: > > Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2016 10:22:36 -0600 > From: Mike Bonner > To: How to use LiveCode > Subject: Re: PowerPoint VBA from LC? > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > If you can send keys to the powerpoint app, you might be able to open the > file, and then send keys to open the menu, and then step through the > keypresses you need to do what you want. > > Having said that, have you considered using autoit instead? (its geared for > just this sort of thing) Theres one or two macro builders that can do this > sort of thing too, but the few times I used autoit it worked well. > From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Tue Aug 9 07:08:19 2016 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2016 13:08:19 +0200 Subject: use-livecode Digest, Vol 155, Issue 15 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Peter, there is also Macroscheduler from MjtNet, a UK based company, which is be able to do this among many other things. It?s a commercial product. But the product itself, the support and also the forum are awesome. http://www.mjtnet.com Regards, Matthias Matthias Rebbe Bramkampsieke 13 32312 L?bbecke Tel +49 5741 310000 +49 160 5504462 Fax: +49 5741 310002 eMail: matthias at m-r-d.de BR5 Konverter - BR5 -> MP3 > Am 09.08.2016 um 12:05 schrieb Peter Reid : > > Thanks Mike and Richmond, I'll take a look at autoit as I don't want to get into VB unless I REALLY have to! > > I was hoping that a short VBA script might do the job so I can use LC for the file/folder management, but autoit may be the solution anyway. > > Peter > -- > Peter Reid > Loughborough, UK > >> On 8 Aug 2016, at 11:00am, use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com wrote: >> >> Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2016 10:22:36 -0600 >> From: Mike Bonner >> To: How to use LiveCode >> Subject: Re: PowerPoint VBA from LC? >> Message-ID: >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 >> >> If you can send keys to the powerpoint app, you might be able to open the >> file, and then send keys to open the menu, and then step through the >> keypresses you need to do what you want. >> >> Having said that, have you considered using autoit instead? (its geared for >> just this sort of thing) Theres one or two macro builders that can do this >> sort of thing too, but the few times I used autoit it worked well. >> > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Tue Aug 9 08:27:51 2016 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2016 05:27:51 -0700 Subject: OT: Switch it off and back on ... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6c4dd4d7-d771-a22d-3fd7-acc7fc8523b4@fourthworld.com> Matt Maier wrote: > I was reading about "crash only" programming a while ago. It like > using the "turn it off and back on again"approach as a part of normal > business. Since all of your systems need to be able to recover from a > crash anyway, why bother programming a graceful shutdown? Just set > them up so that they can pick up where they left off and crash them > if anything isn't running perfectly. http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2016-July/228647.html :) I like the simplicity of crash-only. But I currently enjoy a below-industry-average support cost; I can't imagine how big of a multiple of that average my support costs would be if I rebooted the user's machine instead of providing a more graceful degradation. Still, tempting.... -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From peter.brett at livecode.com Tue Aug 9 08:42:18 2016 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2016 13:42:18 +0100 Subject: OT: Switch it off and back on ... In-Reply-To: References: <62deac9f-7169-18a5-59dc-219bedf373d2@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <46ae133c-75b3-7acf-da7e-94a0f3b99ce2@livecode.com> On 09/08/2016 06:08, Matt Maier wrote: > Because we're capable of building systems more complex than we can > understand. So there are always ghost states it can get into that we didn't > prepare for. > > I was reading about "crash only" programming a while ago. It like using the > "turn it off and back on again"approach as a part of normal business. Since > all of your systems need to be able to recover from a crash anyway, why > bother programming a graceful shutdown? Just set them up so that they can > pick up where they left off and crash them if anything isn't running > perfectly. At the conference, the "vulcanbot" continuous integration service was mentioned several times. This is a microservice I created to facilitate our development workflow by linking our GitHub repositories to our build farm. vulcanbot uses _exactly_ crash-only error handling; whenever something unexpected happens, it quits (generating informative log messages), and then gets automatically restarted by systemd. In practice, this works incredibly well. Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Technical Project Manager LiveCode 2016 Conference: https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/ From peter.brett at livecode.com Tue Aug 9 09:21:55 2016 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2016 14:21:55 +0100 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 45 Message-ID: Hi all, Read about new developments in LiveCode open source and the open source community in today's edition of the "This Week in LiveCode" newsletter! Read issue #45 here: https://goo.gl/fOiTaY This is a weekly newsletter about LiveCode, focussing on what's been going on in and around the open source project. New issues will be released weekly on Mondays. We have a dedicated mailing list that will deliver each issue directly to you e-mail, so you don't miss any! Are you doing something interesting with LiveCode Community Edition? Please get in touch and get it featured in "This Week in LiveCode"! Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Technical Project Manager LiveCode on reddit: https://reddit.com/r/livecode From effendi at wanadoo.fr Tue Aug 9 10:32:00 2016 From: effendi at wanadoo.fr (Francis Nugent Dixon) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2016 16:32:00 +0200 Subject: OT: Switch it off and back on Message-ID: Hi from Beautiful Brittany, I've always been in favour of this practice, without questioning why ! I run an old version lof LiveCode (5.5). Quite often, I save a modified version of my stack, and then try to Quit LiveCode. I get the same message asking me to Save or Cancel, and LiveCode is now totally blocked. I have to Force Quit (on my Mac), and then reload LiveCode. My first Save worked OK, so I never lost anything. I waste about one minute of my life Force Quitting and reloading LiveCode. This happens regularly, but I live with it. For the same reason when I select a button and by mistake hit backspace, and my button (and its script) disappears into thin air (recent question to you), doesn't bother me in the least. I save my stack after every few lines of script and so if I absent-mindedly delete my button, I have a backup taken a few minutes earlier. Software was never perfect - I know ! I've been writing it for 50 years ! Reminds me of the joke where 4 software engineers were in their car, and suddenly it stopped for no apparent reason ! They discussed the options (engineers do this !) and then decided that if they all got out of the car and got back in again, the problem would disappear. That's life - Live with it ! ....... -Francis From dochawk at gmail.com Tue Aug 9 11:40:01 2016 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2016 08:40:01 -0700 Subject: [SQL] placeholders work for SQLite but not for mySQL In-Reply-To: References: <86257102-B1A3-4945-879B-3E1A682A8388@laposte.net> <558AB8D7-F5E3-4919-86D0-EBB9D3CA953A@laposte.net> Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 7:00 PM, Kay C Lan wrote: > As I said I'll get around > to completely rebuilding the db > Now that you mention that . . . is it possible that past runnings have created db entries of "NULL" rather than NULL? -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From panos.merakos at livecode.com Tue Aug 9 12:29:52 2016 From: panos.merakos at livecode.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2016 17:29:52 +0100 Subject: [ ANN ] Release 8.0.2 Message-ID: Dear List Members, We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 8.0.2 Stable. By "Stable", we mean that no reported regressions have been introduced in 8.0.2, compared to the previous Stable release. LiveCode 8.0.2 is a promotion of 8.0.2 RC-4, so there is no change between the two versions, but the build number and the status. *Getting the Release* You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ or via the automatic updater. *Feedback* Please report any bugs encountered on our Bugzilla at http://quality.livecode.com/ Warmest regards, The LiveCode Team -- From stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com Tue Aug 9 12:56:33 2016 From: stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com (stephen barncard) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2016 09:56:33 -0700 Subject: [SQL] placeholders work for SQLite but not for mySQL In-Reply-To: References: <86257102-B1A3-4945-879B-3E1A682A8388@laposte.net> <558AB8D7-F5E3-4919-86D0-EBB9D3CA953A@laposte.net> Message-ID: On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 8:40 AM, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > Now that you mention that . . . is it possible that past runnings have > created db entries of "NULL" rather than NULL? > I've had that happen. Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA - mixstream.org From brahma at hindu.org Tue Aug 9 15:14:54 2016 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2016 19:14:54 +0000 Subject: SVG Editors, anyone? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: @ Alejandro: The use cases I have in mind are small but design rich "tiles" logos/buttons/icons, so I don't think a browser works. Of course larger more complex would also be great? Here is an icon design I got from our lead designer last year, I was excitedly rejoicing at team meetings about how we could use these in our apps? thinking we could use it in Livecode, only to find later that the SVG widget will not support even something as simple as this 9K SVG http://wiki.hindu.org/outgoing/new_tiruvadi_for_app.svg I had to bit the bullet and export this in multiple sized PNG's @Graham: feel free to take that file if you are need any examples. It has useful elements that ideally would be supported: A) styles (in this case , 8 different fill colors) that are later applied to paths and circles as classes B) ~ 14 independent paths C) 14 circles Yes.. .mothership has gone silent on SVG dev. Hope it has not gone to the top shelf in the back room. Alejandro Tejada" wrote: Could you use the browser widget to render a svg as png From iphonelagi at gmail.com Tue Aug 9 17:16:39 2016 From: iphonelagi at gmail.com (Iphonelagi) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2016 22:16:39 +0100 Subject: 2016 conference woes Message-ID: <40BC8F87-5A5F-410F-BAC9-102642EB685D@gmail.com> I'm going to be civil here no sarcasm or ranting that I would have done if I hadn't waited 5 hours to cool down. I'll just assume a glitch that can be fixed rather than a total mess. Anyway the sound on at least a half or more of the track 1 recordings is non existent or so low or muffled I can't hear it. I tried to listen on my Mac PCs and iPhone and Android In fact on chrome on the pc or Mac they will not play either .. The track 2 which look like flash all seem to work. On my iPhone all the videos work but sound is so low as to be inaudible. Now I hope this is an error because I can't believe it took 6 recordings before it was noticed ... Was nobody watching live either remotely or at least for quality control? I hope somewhere there are other recordings of the lectures or someone has some dubbing to do ... Not a happy bunny wasting over 2 hours trying every different combination of browser/device Two different browsers on android give "oops something went wrong". !!!! Regards Lagi Sent from my iPhone From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Tue Aug 9 17:26:06 2016 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2016 16:26:06 -0500 Subject: Play m4a files on Windows 7 Message-ID: We need to play .m4a files on Windows 7 and up. Double-clicking one of those files plays back successfully on a Win 7 machine. Loading a player control with the URL to the file in LC on the same machine does not (LC 7.1.4). Is this fixable? Is there something users can install to make it work? Or do we need a more recent version of LC? -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Tue Aug 9 17:58:32 2016 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2016 16:58:32 -0500 Subject: Play m4a files on Windows 7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <61a16703-c9e0-a512-bcfc-75c7d64d662f@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/9/2016 4:26 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > We need to play .m4a files on Windows 7 and up. Double-clicking one of > those files plays back successfully on a Win 7 machine. Loading a player > control with the URL to the file in LC on the same machine does not (LC > 7.1.4). > > Is this fixable? Is there something users can install to make it work? > Or do we need a more recent version of LC? > Poking around, it looks like I have to build in LC 8.1. If that's correct, then it's risky, it isn't stable yet. Is there any other way? -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From blueback09 at gmail.com Wed Aug 10 03:19:14 2016 From: blueback09 at gmail.com (Matt Maier) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2016 10:19:14 +0300 Subject: OT: Switch it off and back on ... In-Reply-To: <6c4dd4d7-d771-a22d-3fd7-acc7fc8523b4@fourthworld.com> References: <6c4dd4d7-d771-a22d-3fd7-acc7fc8523b4@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: I think the stuff I read about crash-only said that it's normally implemented in a hierarchy. So you try to restart little processes. If they come back up and work correctly then nothing else is affected. If they don't, then you crash the larger process. And so on. On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 3:27 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Matt Maier wrote: > > > I was reading about "crash only" programming a while ago. It like > > using the "turn it off and back on again"approach as a part of normal > > business. Since all of your systems need to be able to recover from a > > crash anyway, why bother programming a graceful shutdown? Just set > > them up so that they can pick up where they left off and crash them > > if anything isn't running perfectly. > > http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2016-July/228647.html > > :) > > I like the simplicity of crash-only. But I currently enjoy a > below-industry-average support cost; I can't imagine how big of a multiple > of that average my support costs would be if I rebooted the user's machine > instead of providing a more graceful degradation. > > Still, tempting.... > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From blueback09 at gmail.com Wed Aug 10 12:41:33 2016 From: blueback09 at gmail.com (Matt Maier) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2016 19:41:33 +0300 Subject: put one array after another Message-ID: Is there a command to merge two array variables into one? Example: tFirstArray[tom] = mot tFirstArray[jane] = enaj tSecondArray[bill] = llib tSecondArray[name] = eman put tSecondArray after tFirstArray tFirstArray[tom] = mot tFirstArray[jane] = enaj tFirstArray[bill] = llib tFirstArray[name] = eman From tore.nilsen at me.com Wed Aug 10 12:51:23 2016 From: tore.nilsen at me.com (Tore Nilsen) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2016 18:51:23 +0200 Subject: put one array after another In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <99C67C1C-E2DD-4635-857E-D4144A17B991@me.com> You could try this, it works if the array is declared global or local, and should work if the arrays are script local if both arrays are constructed within the same handler repeat for each key tKey in tSecondArray put tSecondArray[tKey] into tFirstArray[tKey] end repeat Regards Tore > 10. aug. 2016 kl. 18.41 skrev Matt Maier : > > Is there a command to merge two array variables into one? > > Example: > > tFirstArray[tom] = mot > tFirstArray[jane] = enaj > > tSecondArray[bill] = llib > tSecondArray[name] = eman > > put tSecondArray after tFirstArray > > tFirstArray[tom] = mot > tFirstArray[jane] = enaj > tFirstArray[bill] = llib > tFirstArray[name] = eman > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From blueback09 at gmail.com Wed Aug 10 13:05:05 2016 From: blueback09 at gmail.com (Matt Maier) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2016 20:05:05 +0300 Subject: put one array after another In-Reply-To: <99C67C1C-E2DD-4635-857E-D4144A17B991@me.com> References: <99C67C1C-E2DD-4635-857E-D4144A17B991@me.com> Message-ID: Thanks Tore, yeah that works. I was just curious if there was a way to do it directly. Anytime the syntax is simpler there are fewer chances to make a mistake. I found "append" in the dictionary but it's not really documented and I couldn't get a script to compile with it. On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 7:51 PM, Tore Nilsen wrote: > You could try this, it works if the array is declared global or local, and > should work if the arrays are script local if both arrays are constructed > within the same handler > > repeat for each key tKey in tSecondArray > > put tSecondArray[tKey] into tFirstArray[tKey] > > end repeat > > > Regards > Tore > > > > 10. aug. 2016 kl. 18.41 skrev Matt Maier : > > > > Is there a command to merge two array variables into one? > > > > Example: > > > > tFirstArray[tom] = mot > > tFirstArray[jane] = enaj > > > > tSecondArray[bill] = llib > > tSecondArray[name] = eman > > > > put tSecondArray after tFirstArray > > > > tFirstArray[tom] = mot > > tFirstArray[jane] = enaj > > tFirstArray[bill] = llib > > tFirstArray[name] = eman > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From tore.nilsen at me.com Wed Aug 10 13:08:36 2016 From: tore.nilsen at me.com (Tore Nilsen) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2016 19:08:36 +0200 Subject: put one array after another In-Reply-To: References: <99C67C1C-E2DD-4635-857E-D4144A17B991@me.com> Message-ID: <9ED7BA06-FACE-4809-869E-4225B6B75E75@me.com> I don?t think append is a command, it is used when you open files to add new data at the end of the file. ? open file myFilePath for append Tore > 10. aug. 2016 kl. 19.05 skrev Matt Maier : > > Thanks Tore, yeah that works. I was just curious if there was a way to do > it directly. Anytime the syntax is simpler there are fewer chances to make > a mistake. > > I found "append" in the dictionary but it's not really documented and I > couldn't get a script to compile with it. > > On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 7:51 PM, Tore Nilsen wrote: > >> You could try this, it works if the array is declared global or local, and >> should work if the arrays are script local if both arrays are constructed >> within the same handler >> >> repeat for each key tKey in tSecondArray >> >> put tSecondArray[tKey] into tFirstArray[tKey] >> >> end repeat >> >> >> Regards >> Tore >> >> >>> 10. aug. 2016 kl. 18.41 skrev Matt Maier : >>> >>> Is there a command to merge two array variables into one? >>> >>> Example: >>> >>> tFirstArray[tom] = mot >>> tFirstArray[jane] = enaj >>> >>> tSecondArray[bill] = llib >>> tSecondArray[name] = eman >>> >>> put tSecondArray after tFirstArray >>> >>> tFirstArray[tom] = mot >>> tFirstArray[jane] = enaj >>> tFirstArray[bill] = llib >>> tFirstArray[name] = eman >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From colinholgate at gmail.com Wed Aug 10 13:17:45 2016 From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2016 18:17:45 +0100 Subject: put one array after another In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: In other languages there is a concat function to join two arrays. It?s in the glossary, but not there as a function. > On Aug 10, 2016, at 5:41 PM, Matt Maier wrote: > > Is there a command to merge two array variables into one? > > Example: > > tFirstArray[tom] = mot > tFirstArray[jane] = enaj > > tSecondArray[bill] = llib > tSecondArray[name] = eman > > put tSecondArray after tFirstArray > > tFirstArray[tom] = mot > tFirstArray[jane] = enaj > tFirstArray[bill] = llib > tFirstArray[name] = eman > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From hh at hh.on-rev.com Wed Aug 10 13:58:15 2016 From: hh at hh.on-rev.com (-hh) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2016 10:58:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: put one array after another In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1470851895268-4707398.post@n4.nabble.com> > Matt Maier wrote: > Is there a command to merge two array variables into one? This works for me: union array1 with array2 [recursively] -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/put-one-array-after-another-tp4707393p4707398.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From bonnmike at gmail.com Wed Aug 10 13:58:40 2016 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2016 11:58:40 -0600 Subject: put one array after another In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Try union union firstarray with secondarray though if you have duplicate keys, the duplicate will not change the current. From the dictionary... local tLeft, tRight put "green" into tLeft["color"] put "left" into tLeft[ "align"] put "blue" into tRight["color"] put "100" into tRight["width"] union tLeft with tRight # RESULT # tLeft["colour"] = "green" # tLeft["align"] = "left" # tLeft["width"] = "100" # tRight unchanged On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 11:17 AM, Colin Holgate wrote: > In other languages there is a concat function to join two arrays. It?s in > the glossary, but not there as a function. > > > > On Aug 10, 2016, at 5:41 PM, Matt Maier wrote: > > > > Is there a command to merge two array variables into one? > > > > Example: > > > > tFirstArray[tom] = mot > > tFirstArray[jane] = enaj > > > > tSecondArray[bill] = llib > > tSecondArray[name] = eman > > > > put tSecondArray after tFirstArray > > > > tFirstArray[tom] = mot > > tFirstArray[jane] = enaj > > tFirstArray[bill] = llib > > tFirstArray[name] = eman > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Aug 10 16:39:09 2016 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2016 20:39:09 +0000 Subject: put one array after another In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It will if you union both ways. Bob S On Aug 10, 2016, at 10:58 , Mike Bonner > wrote: Try union union firstarray with secondarray though if you have duplicate keys, the duplicate will not change the current. From monte at appisle.net Wed Aug 10 16:39:42 2016 From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2016 06:39:42 +1000 Subject: put one array after another In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <54E5A4C1-27EB-4BD0-AAB3-73C34B97B4B4@appisle.net> I agree that it is union that you want here, however, it is interesting to note that Peter just recently implemented list concatenation using the & operator in LCB. This might have been applicable if you were working with ordered numerically indexed arrays. I?ve been thinking lately about commands for lists in LCS that could work equally well for items, lines and elements of 1?N arrays. Things like: push onto {front | back} {item | line | element} of pop from {front | back} {item | line | element} of [into ] append to {items | lines | elements} of Here is either a string or a 1?N indexed array. Unfortunately I think we would need an explicit append command rather than using a concatenation operator or put after/before because of the way arrays are silently converted to empty strings. Cheers Monte From cubist at aol.com Thu Aug 11 06:56:04 2016 From: cubist at aol.com (Quentin Long) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2016 06:56:04 -0400 Subject: put one array after another In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <156793ea587-33ba-18a@webstg-a03.mail.aol.com> sez Matt Maier : > Is there a command to merge two array variables into one? > > Example: > > tFirstArray[tom] = mot > tFirstArray[jane] = enaj > > tSecondArray[bill] = llib > tSecondArray[name] = eman > > put tSecondArray after tFirstArray > > tFirstArray[tom] = mot > tFirstArray[jane] = enaj > tFirstArray[bill] = llib > tFirstArray[name] = eman I don't know if there's a command that will do the job. However, there's a construction I use when I merge two list variables into one: put ItemList2 into item (1 + the number of items in ItemList1) of ItemList1 That construction may seem a little weird, but it does the job. So *if* the same sort of logic applies to arrays, something like this might do the job: function ConcatArray Array1, Array2 -- if this was a real function, it would confirm that Array1 and Array2 are both, you know, *arrays* put the number of lines in the keys of Array1 into A1 put the keys of Array2 into key (A1 + 1) of Array1 return Array1 end ConcatArray "Bewitched" + "Charlie's Angels" - Charlie = "At Arm's Length" Read the webcomic at [?http://www.atarmslength.net?]! If you like "At Arm's Length", support it at [?http://www.patreon.com/DarkwingDude?]. From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Aug 11 11:14:24 2016 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2016 08:14:24 -0700 Subject: put one array after another In-Reply-To: <156793ea587-33ba-18a@webstg-a03.mail.aol.com> References: <156793ea587-33ba-18a@webstg-a03.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: <8460fa21-3cf4-603d-814e-d68d0a02c4b2@fourthworld.com> Quentin Long wrote: > I don't know if there's a command that will do the job. However, > there's a construction I use when I merge two list variables into one: > > put ItemList2 into item (1 + the number of items in ItemList1) of > ItemList1 > > That construction may seem a little weird, but it does the job. So > *if* the same sort of logic applies to arrays, something like this > might do the job: > > function ConcatArray Array1, Array2 > -- if this was a real function, it would confirm that Array1 and Array2 are both, you know, *arrays* > put the number of lines in the keys of Array1 into A1 > put the keys of Array2 into key (A1 + 1) of Array1 > return Array1 > end ConcatArray The "*if*" there is critical, as strings (LC lists) do not work like arrays. I'm not sure of the specifics of LC's implementation, but this general discussion may be useful: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Associative_array#Implementation In brief (and woefully oversimplified), we could conceive of an array as a collection of memory addresses, in which each address is derived from a hashing function applied to the key. This is why when we try to display an array in a field it shows empty - there is no single string for the array data, its contents instead spread across multiple locations linked together through pointers. Indeed, given that arrays can be nested, it's non-trivial to come up with a string representation to meaningfully represent them.* In contrast to the actual structure of an array, using the keys function does return a string, a return-delimited list of the key names. But the creation of that string is copying the keys from the actual array structure, and not the structure itself. So given an array which we could notate as: Array2/ key "a" = value "SomeValue" key "b" = value "SomeOtherValue" ...the line above that reads: put the keys of Array2 into key (A1 + 1) of Array1 ...would first get a string comprised of copies of the key names, like this: a b ...then add 1 to the number of lines there to get 3, and then use that as the string list of key names as the value of element Array1[3] That is, if the syntax "...into key of " was something LC did - using LC we'd need to write that as: put the keys of Array2 into Array1[A1+1) But while that modified line would execute, it still won't do what we want here. It applies a return delimited string of key names as a value to a single element, and what we're looking for is a method of bulk copying the actual array elements. This post may seem tediously long and pedantic, but bear with me, as I think we're discovering an opportunity for an enhanced array tutorial. The conceptualization of the role of array keys here closely matches one we saw a couple weeks ago on this list, in which a very experienced developer was attempting to use the keys of an array as a sort of bulk copying method for the array elements. Whether we have a good means of doing that bulk copying already (union seems useful here) is less interesting to me than the conceptualization itself. There may be value exploring ways we might make the conceptualization of arrays more closely match their actual structure, hopefully making it easier for us to anticipate how the various syntax for arrays can and can't be used for a given task. Many years ago Dar Scott put together a wonderfully animated tutorial on LiveCode (then "Revolution") Message Mechanics, available here: http://pages.swcp.com/dsc/revstacks.html I wonder if we might have a similarly inventive soul among us who may be able to deliver something as nice for explaining array structure. As with Dar's stack, this may well be a case where illustrations, esp. animated ones, might help far more than any explanatory text alone. Arrays are among the more abstract things in LiveCode, a language otherwise characterized by an ease of learning afforded through more concrete structures (objects, chunks - things we can see). But arrays are so useful in so many contexts that it seems an excellent tutorial would be a welcome addition to our community learning resources. * The challenge of representing associate arrays in a textual form is infamous; doable, but cumbersome. JSON is the most popular way to do this, but being designed specifically for the JavaScript engine it's notoriously tedious to parse in anything other language. YAML offers a much more human-readable/writable alternative, though less commonly used. Now that JSON is included in LC 8 we do at last have a common means of translating LC's associative arrays to and from textual form. But for the sake of readability, it might be nice if there was a common YAML library available as well. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Aug 11 11:15:49 2016 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2016 08:15:49 -0700 Subject: [OT] Another reason we love LiveCode Message-ID: <7ec3517d-9271-7e86-f816-45e128fc6ef2@fourthworld.com> The difference between "=" and "==" is something we LiveCoders never need to worry about: https://i.redd.it/nf19afmd7kex.jpg :) -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Thu Aug 11 11:32:04 2016 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2016 11:32:04 -0400 Subject: [OT] Another reason we love LiveCode In-Reply-To: <7ec3517d-9271-7e86-f816-45e128fc6ef2@fourthworld.com> References: <7ec3517d-9271-7e86-f816-45e128fc6ef2@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: or the difference between ++a and a++ and I didn't know, until yesterday, that "to" and "into" are synonyms. I freaked out when the syntax checker didn't yell at me for "put 1 to a", until I tested it. From blueback09 at gmail.com Thu Aug 11 11:37:02 2016 From: blueback09 at gmail.com (Matt Maier) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2016 18:37:02 +0300 Subject: put one array after another In-Reply-To: <8460fa21-3cf4-603d-814e-d68d0a02c4b2@fourthworld.com> References: <156793ea587-33ba-18a@webstg-a03.mail.aol.com> <8460fa21-3cf4-603d-814e-d68d0a02c4b2@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: I second the vote for a YAML library. It makes text and arrays work together a lot better than JSON. The way I've been tracking arrays in text for documentation purposes is basically just a table at heart: array[first-key][this-key] = whatever array[first-key][that-key] = foobar array[2nd-key][some-key] = data array[2nd-key][another-one] = more data array[3rd-key][sub-key][new-level] = fake data array[3rd-key][sub-key][next-level] = probably also fake data array[3rd-key][sub-key][here-we-go-again] = totally the real data Usually I'll omit the redundant text, which helps me think of it as a tree array[first-key][this-key] = whatever [that-key] = foobar array[2nd-key][some-key] = data [another-one] = more data array[3rd-key][sub-key][new-level] = fake data [next-level] = probably also fake data [here-we-go-again] = totally the real data On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 6:14 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Quentin Long wrote: > > > I don't know if there's a command that will do the job. However, > > there's a construction I use when I merge two list variables into one: > > > > put ItemList2 into item (1 + the number of items in ItemList1) of > > ItemList1 > > > > That construction may seem a little weird, but it does the job. So > > *if* the same sort of logic applies to arrays, something like this > > might do the job: > > > > function ConcatArray Array1, Array2 > > -- if this was a real function, it would confirm that Array1 and > Array2 are both, you know, *arrays* > > put the number of lines in the keys of Array1 into A1 > > put the keys of Array2 into key (A1 + 1) of Array1 > > return Array1 > > end ConcatArray > > The "*if*" there is critical, as strings (LC lists) do not work like > arrays. > > I'm not sure of the specifics of LC's implementation, but this general > discussion may be useful: > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Associative_array#Implementation > > In brief (and woefully oversimplified), we could conceive of an array as a > collection of memory addresses, in which each address is derived from a > hashing function applied to the key. > > This is why when we try to display an array in a field it shows empty - > there is no single string for the array data, its contents instead spread > across multiple locations linked together through pointers. Indeed, given > that arrays can be nested, it's non-trivial to come up with a string > representation to meaningfully represent them.* > > In contrast to the actual structure of an array, using the keys function > does return a string, a return-delimited list of the key names. But the > creation of that string is copying the keys from the actual array > structure, and not the structure itself. > > So given an array which we could notate as: > > Array2/ > key "a" = value "SomeValue" > key "b" = value "SomeOtherValue" > > ...the line above that reads: > > put the keys of Array2 into key (A1 + 1) of Array1 > > ...would first get a string comprised of copies of the key names, like > this: > > a > b > > ...then add 1 to the number of lines there to get 3, and then use that as > the string list of key names as the value of element Array1[3] > > That is, if the syntax "...into key of " was > something LC did - using LC we'd need to write that as: > > put the keys of Array2 into Array1[A1+1) > > But while that modified line would execute, it still won't do what we want > here. It applies a return delimited string of key names as a value to a > single element, and what we're looking for is a method of bulk copying the > actual array elements. > > > This post may seem tediously long and pedantic, but bear with me, as I > think we're discovering an opportunity for an enhanced array tutorial. > > The conceptualization of the role of array keys here closely matches one > we saw a couple weeks ago on this list, in which a very experienced > developer was attempting to use the keys of an array as a sort of bulk > copying method for the array elements. > > Whether we have a good means of doing that bulk copying already (union > seems useful here) is less interesting to me than the conceptualization > itself. There may be value exploring ways we might make the > conceptualization of arrays more closely match their actual structure, > hopefully making it easier for us to anticipate how the various syntax for > arrays can and can't be used for a given task. > > Many years ago Dar Scott put together a wonderfully animated tutorial on > LiveCode (then "Revolution") Message Mechanics, available here: > http://pages.swcp.com/dsc/revstacks.html > > I wonder if we might have a similarly inventive soul among us who may be > able to deliver something as nice for explaining array structure. > > As with Dar's stack, this may well be a case where illustrations, esp. > animated ones, might help far more than any explanatory text alone. > > Arrays are among the more abstract things in LiveCode, a language > otherwise characterized by an ease of learning afforded through more > concrete structures (objects, chunks - things we can see). But arrays are > so useful in so many contexts that it seems an excellent tutorial would be > a welcome addition to our community learning resources. > > > * The challenge of representing associate arrays in a textual form is > infamous; doable, but cumbersome. JSON is the most popular way to do this, > but being designed specifically for the JavaScript engine it's notoriously > tedious to parse in anything other language. YAML offers a much more > human-readable/writable alternative, though less commonly used. > > Now that JSON is included in LC 8 we do at last have a common means of > translating LC's associative arrays to and from textual form. But for the > sake of readability, it might be nice if there was a common YAML library > available as well. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From pmbrig at gmail.com Thu Aug 11 11:57:37 2016 From: pmbrig at gmail.com (Peter M. Brigham) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2016 11:57:37 -0400 Subject: put one array after another In-Reply-To: References: <156793ea587-33ba-18a@webstg-a03.mail.aol.com> <8460fa21-3cf4-603d-814e-d68d0a02c4b2@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On Aug 11, 2016, at 11:37 AM, Matt Maier wrote: > The way I've been tracking arrays in text for documentation purposes is > basically just a table at heart: > > array[first-key][this-key] = whatever > array[first-key][that-key] = foobar > array[2nd-key][some-key] = data > array[2nd-key][another-one] = more data > array[3rd-key][sub-key][new-level] = fake data > array[3rd-key][sub-key][next-level] = probably also fake data > array[3rd-key][sub-key][here-we-go-again] = totally the real data This looks like the output of a function I use that was based on something Bob Sneider posted to this list. function arrayToKeyList @pArray, _theKeyList -- from Bob Sneider, use-LC list, originally named altPrintKeys() -- adjusted by Peter M. Brigham, pmbrig at gmail.com -- returns a list of all the elements of pArray, -- with their keys, in the form of , eg, -- [1] ["runs"] [1] ["style"] ["textColor"] 0,0,0 -- [1] ["runs"] [1] ["style"] ["textStyle"] bold -- [1] ["runs"] [1] ["text"] function -- [1] ["runs"] [2] ["style"] ["textColor"] 0,0,0 -- [1] ["runs"] [2] ["text"] sr pStr -- [2] ["runs"] [1] ["style"] ["textColor"] 0,0,0 -- [2] ["runs"] [1] ["text"] -- [2] ["runs"] [2] ["style"] ["textColor"] 0,127,0 ... -- pArray is referenced to avoid duplication of large arrays in memory, -- but is not changed by this function -- _theKeyList is an internal parameter, used for the recursion -- do NOT pass a second parameter when calling this function -- keyListToArray() is the inverse function, allowing you to re-create the array -- from the key list -- requires deleteItem, getDelimiters(), keyListToArray() put numtochar(11) into vertTab put numtochar(30) into altCr put the keys of pArray into theKeys if line 1 of theKeys is a number then sort theKeys numeric else sort theKeys end if repeat for each line theKey in theKeys if theKey is a number then put "[" & theKey & "] " after _theKeyList else put "[" & quote & theKey & quote & "] " after _theKeyList end if if pArray[theKey] is an array then put pArray[theKey] into theTempArray put arrayToKeyList(theTempArray, _theKeyList) after theText deleteItem _theKeyList,-1,"] " put cr into char -1 of theText else if theKey is a number then put "pArray" && "[" & theKey & "]" into theKeyName else put "pArray" && "[" & quote & theKey & quote & "]" into theKeyName end if put value(theKeyName) into theValue replace tab with vertTab in theValue replace cr with altCr in theValue put _theKeyList & tab & theValue & cr after theText deleteItem _theKeyList,-1,"] " end if end repeat return theText end arrayToKeyList on deleteItem @pList, pItemNbr, pDelim -- deletes item pItemNbr of pList, given itemdel = pDelim -- based on replaceItem -- if pDelim = empty, defaults to tab as the delimiter -- pList is referenced, so the original list will be changed -- most useful when the itemdel is non-standard, -- don't have to set it then reset it in calling script -- also, pDelim can be a string of characters, so you could do -- pList = "first or ninth or second or third" -- deleteItem pList,2," or " -- and get "first or second or third" -- by Peter M. Brigham, pmbrig at gmail.com ? freeware, -- based on a handler on the use-LC list -- requires getDelimiters() if pItemNbr = empty then exit deleteItem if pDelim = empty then put tab into pDelim if len(pDelim) > 1 then put getDelimiters(pList) into tempDel if tempDelim begins with "Error" then answer "Error in getDelimiters()" & cr & tempDelim exit to top end if replace pDelim with tempDel in pList else put pDelim into tempDel end if set the itemdelimiter to tempDel delete item pItemNbr of pList replace tempDel with pDelim in pList end deleteItem function getDelimiters pText, nbrNeeded -- returns a cr-delimited list of characters -- none of which are found in the variable pText -- use for delimiters for, eg, parsing text files, manipulating arrays, etc. -- usage: put getDelimiters(pText,2) into tDelims -- if tDelims begins with "Error" then exit to top -- or whatever -- put line 1 of tDelims into lineDivider -- put line 2 of tDelims into itemDivider -- etc. -- by Peter M. Brigham, pmbrig at gmail.com ? freeware if pText = empty then return "Error: no text specified." if nbrNeeded = empty then put 1 into nbrNeeded -- default 1 delimiter put "2,3,4,5,6,7,8,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26" into baseList -- low ASCII values, excluding CR, LF, tab, etc. put the number of items of baseList into maxNbr if nbrNeeded > maxNbr then return "Error: max" && maxNbr && "delimiters." repeat for each item testCharNbr in baseList put numtochar(testCharNbr) into testChar if testChar is not in pText then -- found one, store and get next delim put testChar & cr after delimList if the number of lines of delimList = nbrNeeded then return line 1 to -1 of delimList -- done end if end repeat -- if we got this far, there was an error put the number of lines of delimList into totalFound if totalFound = 0 then return "Error: cannot get any delimiters." else if totalFound = 1 then return "Error: can only get 1 delimiter." else return "Error: can only get" && totalFound && "delimiters." end if end getDelimiters function keyListToArray theText -- the inverse function for arrayToKeyList() -- from Bob Sneider, use-LC list, originally named altKeysToArray() -- adjusted by Peter M. Brigham, pmbrig at gmail.com -- takes a list of all the elements of an array, -- with their keys, in the form of , -- as created by arrayToKeyList(), eg, -- [1] ["runs"] [1] ["style"] ["textColor"] 0,0,0 -- [1] ["runs"] [1] ["style"] ["textStyle"] bold -- [1] ["runs"] [1] ["text"] function -- [1] ["runs"] [2] ["style"] ["textColor"] 0,0,0 -- [1] ["runs"] [2] ["text"] sr pStr -- [2] ["runs"] [1] ["style"] ["textColor"] 0,0,0 -- [2] ["runs"] [1] ["text"] -- [2] ["runs"] [2] ["style"] ["textColor"] 0,127,0 -- and loads it into an array -- requires deleteItem, getDelimiters(), arrayToKeyList() -- arrayToKeyList() is the inverse function put numtochar(11) into vertTab put numtochar(30) into altCr set the itemdel to tab repeat for each line theRecord in theText put item 1 of theRecord into theKeyList put item 2 of theRecord into theValue replace vertTab with tab in theValue replace altCr with cr in theValue put "put theValue into theArrayA" && theKeyList into theCommand do theCommand end repeat return theArrayA end keyListToArray ---------- -- Peter Peter M. Brigham pmbrig at gmail.com From mark at livecode.com Thu Aug 11 13:27:05 2016 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2016 19:27:05 +0200 Subject: [OT] Another reason we love LiveCode In-Reply-To: References: <7ec3517d-9271-7e86-f816-45e128fc6ef2@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <32993c5ed8d02a334945d04551867318@livecode.com> On 2016-08-11 17:32, Mike Kerner wrote: > or the difference between ++a and a++ > > and I didn't know, until yesterday, that "to" and "into" are synonyms. > I > freaked out when the syntax checker didn't yell at me for "put 1 to a", > until I tested it. There's lots of synonyms lurking around like that - in this case I'd class it as a bug. Overloading of synonyms for the 'connecting' words (like of, the, in, into, after, before, with etc.) is generally a bad idea as it reduces the potentially expressibility of the language in the future. Monte recently did some work to indicate the status of script compilation of objects in the project browser (this should be in 8.1) which means fixing these small parsing errors (where the parser is waaaay to lax in terms of what it accepts) will cause less user friction - you'll be able to see clearly if you have scripts which no longer compile when loaded into a new version. (Note, we'd only do this for minor laxness in syntax which is not very common and generally present as an accident which can mislead in terms of functionality of the script - we recently made 'repeat' parsing stricter and at least two people fixed actual bugs in their code as a result). Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From dochawk at gmail.com Thu Aug 11 14:28:13 2016 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2016 11:28:13 -0700 Subject: Trouble setting the font of the text of a field Message-ID: This code has been around a while; it's part of the maintenance routines. But now it's glitching. tgTg holds the long id of a field Inside a conditional, the last line of the code set the txtFnt of tgTg to "ArialMt" ck tgTg & cr & the long name of tgTg set the textFont of the text of tgTg to empty is giving the error button "mkArialMt": execution error at line 8 (Chunk: error in object expression) near "sofa_dpadr_", char 30 Maybe it just hasn't hit a field with the condition in a while, but isn't this the correct way to clear the text of a field? sofa_dpadr_ is indeed the name of the field in question, and it has text in it. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From bogdanoff at me.com Thu Aug 11 15:21:04 2016 From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2016 12:21:04 -0700 Subject: Trouble setting the font of the text of a field In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <130C681D-87C1-46EE-9D3A-971E90811A23@me.com> I've had better results with: set char 1 to -1 of the text of ... > On Aug 11, 2016, at 11:28 AM, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > > This code has been around a while; it's part of the maintenance routines. > But now it's glitching. > > tgTg holds the long id of a field > > Inside a conditional, the last line of the code > > set the txtFnt of tgTg to "ArialMt" > ck tgTg & cr & the long name of tgTg > set the textFont of the text of tgTg to empty > > > is giving the error > > button "mkArialMt": execution error at line 8 (Chunk: error in object > expression) near "sofa_dpadr_", char 30 > > > Maybe it just hasn't hit a field with the condition in a while, but isn't > this the correct way to clear the text of a field? > > sofa_dpadr_ is indeed the name of the field in question, and it has text in > it. > -- > Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. > (702) 508-8462 > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From revolution at jaedworks.com Thu Aug 11 15:53:42 2016 From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2016 12:53:42 -0700 Subject: Trouble setting the font of the text of a field In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 11:28 AM -0700 8/11/2016, Dr. Hawkins wrote: >This code has been around a while; it's part of the maintenance routines. >But now it's glitching. [...] > set the textFont of the text of tgTg to empty "the text of tgTg" would be parsed as the text content of the field. Try using this instead: set the textFont of char 1 to -1 of tgTg to empty That should work. From dochawk at gmail.com Thu Aug 11 16:45:14 2016 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2016 13:45:14 -0700 Subject: Trouble setting the font of the text of a field In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 12:53 PM, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto < revolution at jaedworks.com> wrote: > set the textFont of char 1 to -1 of tgTg to empty > > That should work. > It did, it did! I had been trying "char 1 to -1 of the text of tgTg", which I suppose gets past the same way as "the text of" . . . The irony here is that the ability to refer to fields with other variables is the single biggest reason for me to be using a HyperCard solution . . . (it was the *only* way to do what I was doing [am doing] back in the 80s short of a LISP variant and low-level programming of the fields on my screen . . .) -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From brahma at hindu.org Thu Aug 11 17:10:44 2016 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2016 21:10:44 +0000 Subject: Can use assign multiple behaviors to a single object? Message-ID: Pursuant to the new text only script architecture possibilities: e.g. Group "portal-links" Can we assign more than 1 behavior to this(any) group(object)? Rumors are that it is possible. But, the IDE does not support it. Or at least the current property inspector UI as it looks today, does not support it. Manual assignment via script or msg box implementation would imply that doing "set the behavior of [some object] to the long id of [someObject/textOnlyScript]" effectively replaces the one and only assigned behavior. OTOH it does seem useful if you want more robust encapsulation of vars and methods vs overloading the global space with vars and methods from multiple backscripts and libs added to the msg path by 'start using' Comments? But first, is it doable at all (2+ behaviors assigned to one object)? A snake pit of behaviors that are all encapsulated seems less venomous than a snake pit of stack/libs/scripts that are a live and globally "hot" in the message hierarchy. Of course one does have the added burden of making the behavior assignment, but this seems a trivial burden when behaviors are encapsulated vs debugging a global message path comprised 50 plus backscripts/stack scripts\ BR From monte at appisle.net Thu Aug 11 17:15:47 2016 From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2016 07:15:47 +1000 Subject: Can use assign multiple behaviors to a single object? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <76FCE72E-E6C9-4994-8E38-D9F06B05137C@appisle.net> You can assign a behavior to a behavior object for common code you want to use in multiple behaviors. The IDE does support it. Cheers Monte Sent from my iPhone > On 12 Aug 2016, at 7:10 AM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote: > > Pursuant to the new text only script architecture possibilities: > > e.g. Group "portal-links" > > Can we assign more than 1 behavior to this(any) group(object)? > > Rumors are that it is possible. But, the IDE does not support it. Or at least the current property inspector UI as it looks today, does not support it. > > Manual assignment via script or msg box implementation would imply that doing > > "set the behavior of [some object] to the long id of [someObject/textOnlyScript]" > > effectively replaces the one and only assigned behavior. > > OTOH it does seem useful if you want more robust encapsulation of vars and methods > > vs overloading the global space with vars and methods from multiple backscripts and libs added to the msg path by 'start using' > > Comments? > > But first, is it doable at all (2+ behaviors assigned to one object)? > > A snake pit of behaviors that are all encapsulated seems less venomous than a snake pit of stack/libs/scripts that are a live and globally "hot" in the message hierarchy. > > Of course one does have the added burden of making the behavior assignment, but this seems a trivial burden when behaviors are encapsulated vs debugging a global message path comprised 50 plus backscripts/stack scripts\ > > BR > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dochawk at gmail.com Thu Aug 11 17:28:29 2016 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2016 14:28:29 -0700 Subject: No data in application browser in 8.0.2 Message-ID: I took one of my brief forays into version 8 today--shorter even than usual. The application browser window comes up, but it's completely empty--with a dozen stacks loaded! -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From brahma at hindu.org Thu Aug 11 17:34:50 2016 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2016 21:34:50 +0000 Subject: Can use assign multiple behaviors to a single object? In-Reply-To: <76FCE72E-E6C9-4994-8E38-D9F06B05137C@appisle.net> References: <76FCE72E-E6C9-4994-8E38-D9F06B05137C@appisle.net> Message-ID: <6B2A8BED-BB8E-44F8-B4E4-B2FB62BAE4C1@hindu.org> Monte: yes I was aware of that option? but looking for OBJECT A (with behaviors) behavior 1 behavior 2 bevaiour 3 all with an "equal standing". I can see how from the engine's point of view this might be challenging vs a hierarchical/cascading layout. ergo, answer is "no, you can't do it that way." (have multiple behaviors parallel to each other) The hierarchical behavior method obfuscates the architecture in the sense that it is very hard to see the common parent behaviors that are "hiding" behind the other child behaviors. (perhaps I am wrong there) i.e. making that method even more challenging from a transparency-maintenance architecture choice? may as well just "start/stop" using libs as needed. p.s. I realize "parent-child" has been deprecated? that still doesn't mean, IMHO, it is not the optimal language choice for talking about behaviors BR On 8/11/16, 11:15 AM, "use-livecode on behalf of Monte Goulding" wrote: You can assign a behavior to a behavior object for common code you want to use in multiple behaviors. The IDE does support it. Cheers Monte From monte at appisle.net Thu Aug 11 17:40:42 2016 From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2016 07:40:42 +1000 Subject: Can use assign multiple behaviors to a single object? In-Reply-To: <6B2A8BED-BB8E-44F8-B4E4-B2FB62BAE4C1@hindu.org> References: <76FCE72E-E6C9-4994-8E38-D9F06B05137C@appisle.net> <6B2A8BED-BB8E-44F8-B4E4-B2FB62BAE4C1@hindu.org> Message-ID: <5AEDD903-A3CC-46FD-8446-363C2922808D@appisle.net> > On 12 Aug 2016, at 7:34 AM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote: > > The hierarchical behavior method obfuscates the architecture in the sense that it is very hard to see the common parent behaviors that are "hiding" behind the other child behaviors. Given the width it would probably be nice to support showing the full behavior hierarchy on the project browser. If you would like to open an enhancement request on that I think it would be a nice feature. Cheers Monte From brahma at hindu.org Thu Aug 11 18:23:55 2016 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2016 22:23:55 +0000 Subject: Can use assign multiple behaviors to a single object? In-Reply-To: <5AEDD903-A3CC-46FD-8446-363C2922808D@appisle.net> References: <76FCE72E-E6C9-4994-8E38-D9F06B05137C@appisle.net> <6B2A8BED-BB8E-44F8-B4E4-B2FB62BAE4C1@hindu.org> <5AEDD903-A3CC-46FD-8446-363C2922808D@appisle.net> Message-ID: agreed and done http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18176 please add more if my description is insufficient. Aloha! BR On 8/11/16, 11:40 AM, "use-livecode on behalf of Monte Goulding" wrote: Given the width it would probably be nice to support showing the full behavior hierarchy on the project browser. If you would like to open an enhancement request on that I think it would be a nice feature. From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Aug 11 18:26:07 2016 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2016 15:26:07 -0700 Subject: Can use assign multiple behaviors to a single object? In-Reply-To: <6B2A8BED-BB8E-44F8-B4E4-B2FB62BAE4C1@hindu.org> References: <6B2A8BED-BB8E-44F8-B4E4-B2FB62BAE4C1@hindu.org> Message-ID: <99dd1093-68b8-dba1-94a9-2a3ae4edce6f@fourthworld.com> Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote: > The hierarchical behavior method obfuscates the architecture in the > sense that it is very hard to see the common parent behaviors that > are "hiding" behind the other child behaviors. That's a function of the tool, not a weakness in the language. The Project Browser shows objects according to their physical location, but I needed something different, a view that showed the full current active message path. So I wrote one I call MPath, and included it in devolution: Here's a view with nested behaviors: devolution is free to use, and available here: As for the language, I believe the implementation of behaviors is a good one. If you need many handlers to define a specific class of objects, what is the spreading them out across multiple scripts? And if it were possible, what would happen if two (or more) of those scripts contains handlers of the same name? With the current nesting setup we have the same ability to use multiple scripts to define a single class of objects, but much greater clarity with being able to know which will override/overload others. Even better, nested behavior scripts can act as sub- and super-classes, with a script defining things for several classes of objects, and each of those providing more specific routines unique to each class. > p.s. I realize "parent-child" has been deprecated? that still doesn't > mean, IMHO, it is not the optimal language choice for talking about > behaviors. Agreed. Behavior is too generic. The original name of parentScript was more descriptive. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From brahma at hindu.org Thu Aug 11 18:35:39 2016 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2016 22:35:39 +0000 Subject: Can use assign multiple behaviors to a single object? In-Reply-To: <99dd1093-68b8-dba1-94a9-2a3ae4edce6f@fourthworld.com> References: <6B2A8BED-BB8E-44F8-B4E4-B2FB62BAE4C1@hindu.org> <99dd1093-68b8-dba1-94a9-2a3ae4edce6f@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <42E36B28-381D-4377-AA0B-CFE9D0832AA1@hindu.org> Richard? tks for devolution I had it before but downloaded a fresh copy. fyi that image " devo-mpath-nested.png" button "Main Button" shows three assigned behaviors in parallel, not nested? ?? On 8/11/16, 12:26 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Richard Gaskin" wrote: Here's a view with nested behaviors: From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Aug 11 19:05:18 2016 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2016 16:05:18 -0700 Subject: Can use assign multiple behaviors to a single object? In-Reply-To: <42E36B28-381D-4377-AA0B-CFE9D0832AA1@hindu.org> References: <42E36B28-381D-4377-AA0B-CFE9D0832AA1@hindu.org> Message-ID: Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote: > Richard? tks for devolution I had it before but downloaded a fresh > copy If yours is v4 or later it should have an option to notify you of updates automatically. > fyi that image " devo-mpath-nested.png" > > button "Main Button" > > shows three assigned behaviors in parallel, not nested? That's just a stylistic choice, not a custom engine build. :) I had tried indenting each level, but found it didn't provide that much more clarity and preferred to keep linked behaviors at the same indentation level. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From dochawk at gmail.com Thu Aug 11 19:45:33 2016 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2016 16:45:33 -0700 Subject: Can use assign multiple behaviors to a single object? In-Reply-To: <99dd1093-68b8-dba1-94a9-2a3ae4edce6f@fourthworld.com> References: <6B2A8BED-BB8E-44F8-B4E4-B2FB62BAE4C1@hindu.org> <99dd1093-68b8-dba1-94a9-2a3ae4edce6f@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 3:26 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > With the current nesting setup we have the same ability to use multiple > scripts to define a single class of objects, but much greater clarity with > being able to know which will override/overload others. Multiple inheritance can have its advantages--but I've yet to have ore than a passing need for it. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From dick.kriesel at mail.com Thu Aug 11 20:17:56 2016 From: dick.kriesel at mail.com (Dick Kriesel) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2016 17:17:56 -0700 Subject: Can use assign multiple behaviors to a single object? In-Reply-To: <6B2A8BED-BB8E-44F8-B4E4-B2FB62BAE4C1@hindu.org> References: <76FCE72E-E6C9-4994-8E38-D9F06B05137C@appisle.net> <6B2A8BED-BB8E-44F8-B4E4-B2FB62BAE4C1@hindu.org> Message-ID: From monte at appisle.net Thu Aug 11 20:42:19 2016 From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2016 10:42:19 +1000 Subject: Can use assign multiple behaviors to a single object? In-Reply-To: References: <76FCE72E-E6C9-4994-8E38-D9F06B05137C@appisle.net> <6B2A8BED-BB8E-44F8-B4E4-B2FB62BAE4C1@hindu.org> Message-ID: > On 12 Aug 2016, at 10:17 AM, Dick Kriesel wrote: > > A use case involves the script editor?s "Apply" button, whose events may matter to multiple development tools. When that button already has a behavior, the process for adding another also adds complexity and adverse side effects. The library encapsulates the complexity and prevents the adverse side effects (that I?ve seen). I?m interested in your use cases here on multiple levels. Firstly we are working towards an IDE with a rich set of events that plugins can subscribe to. We also need to flesh out a spec for filters which will probably just be events with pass by reference parameters so that things like IDE menus can be modified by plugins easily. One use case that I have wanted for a while is to be able to fiddle with the standalone settings in a plugin during savingStandalone. The end goal is all the IDE components are themselves plugins and people can use whichever parts suit their workflow. The other reason this tweaked my interest is I recently had a play with implementing a scriptChanged message which might be a good hook for your use cases. The idea needs a bit more thought so won?t make 8.1 although the scriptStatus property will (that returns an enum letting you know if the script is uncompiled, compiled or has an error? there?s a placeholder for a future warning state also). Cheers Monte From brahma at hindu.org Thu Aug 11 21:08:29 2016 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2016 01:08:29 +0000 Subject: Can use assign multiple behaviors to a single object? In-Reply-To: <42E36B28-381D-4377-AA0B-CFE9D0832AA1@hindu.org> References: <6B2A8BED-BB8E-44F8-B4E4-B2FB62BAE4C1@hindu.org> <99dd1093-68b8-dba1-94a9-2a3ae4edce6f@fourthworld.com>, <42E36B28-381D-4377-AA0B-CFE9D0832AA1@hindu.org> Message-ID: "I had tried indenting each level, but found it didn't provide that much more clarity and preferred to keep linked behaviors at the same level" So, since we know the behaviors can run parallel, your view means behavior 3 is parent of 2? And behavior 2 is a patent of 1? Swasti Astu! Be Well ( from my mobile ) On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 12:35 PM -1000, "Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami" > wrote: Richard? tks for devolution I had it before but downloaded a fresh copy. fyi that image " devo-mpath-nested.png" button "Main Button" shows three assigned behaviors in parallel, not nested? ?? On 8/11/16, 12:26 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Richard Gaskin" wrote: Here's a view with nested behaviors: _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From brahma at hindu.org Thu Aug 11 21:51:14 2016 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2016 01:51:14 +0000 Subject: Can use assign multiple behaviors to a single object? In-Reply-To: References: <6B2A8BED-BB8E-44F8-B4E4-B2FB62BAE4C1@hindu.org> <99dd1093-68b8-dba1-94a9-2a3ae4edce6f@fourthworld.com> <42E36B28-381D-4377-AA0B-CFE9D0832AA1@hindu.org> Message-ID: I meant "can't run parallel" Svasti Astu, Be Well Brahmanathaswami www.himalayanacademy.com On 8/11/16, 3:08 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami" wrote: So, since we know the behaviors can run parallel, From brahma at hindu.org Thu Aug 11 22:22:56 2016 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2016 02:22:56 +0000 Subject: Can use assign multiple behaviors to a single object? In-Reply-To: References: <76FCE72E-E6C9-4994-8E38-D9F06B05137C@appisle.net> <6B2A8BED-BB8E-44F8-B4E4-B2FB62BAE4C1@hindu.org> Message-ID: @Dick Sure, I think we would be interested. @ monte Not sure if the above qualifies as use case? but may help ? Our new app is very modular. Layout on disk looks like this config.json loader stack # stack script initializes all back/front and lib required to app wide use # as declared in the json file. /modules /home config.json home.livecode /module 2 config.json module 2.livecode /module 3 config.json module 3.livecode /module 4 config.json module 3.livecode /module 3 config.json module 2.livecode /shared /backscripts # all instantiated at start up /api.livecode # app wide but not too long, no meant to overload. /frontscripts # all instantiated at start up /libs # meant to be instantiated with "start/stop using" The loader stack initializes all back and front scripts, reads the top config.json and sees that the launchModule should be "home.livecode" and that's what appear on screen on mobile at boot. this is working great. but obviously could get crazy very fast with library bloat. user could later make module3 their opening modules, and the app will write that "favorite" request to the top config.json? next time they reboot the app on the phone, it would open to module3.livecode. So that's the architecture. OK so now the subjective views of life arrive. For creating scrollers, which would be "universal" requirement across the entire app, one approach is to create simply add another lib or backscript, include this in the json (which lists all libs to be initialized on start up) and it is loaded into the msg path on start up. The other approach would be to create a behavior and attach that to every stack that needs scrollers. Frankly, despite the "geeky, cool" appearance of nested behaviors, in this scenario I'm not seen that many advantages. I just like to explore it to see if new visions may actually be more maintainable, less buggy in the long run. But another view of life says that behaviors really REALLY, should only be used when there is a very unique set of vars/methods that apply to (in this case) one card on one module.livecode stack. Despite the attractiveness of Richard Parent/Child = a "kinda class like object hierarchy" I'm not seeing that it gets us anything more than backscripts if there is at all any commonality of methods that might be re-used on modules across the entire app. If you have 4 developers working on module1.livecode module2.livecode module3.livecode module4.livecode you just have to tell everyone to stay away form the loader and the api backscript, and be sure to pull every day and push every day (we are using Git) there is a bit of "pass the baton" that needs to be played by telling everyone to be careful, but since the config.json files and backscripts are all text?merging is not a problem. Meanwhile if dev 1 is building modules1 /image-puzzles.livecode and dev 2 is building modules2 /interactive-books.livecode we know that binary and the files in that modules folder are "none of our business" and there are no merge issues. BUT were we start mixing a complex chain of parent-child behaviors into this overall CMS? I think it would become a team nightmare. Also the requirement to attach behaviors when other wise you could just call a command you know is in the message path? That said if dev2 wants to do that in his sand box modules2 /interactive-books.livecode /books-shared /[100 small behaviors] fine? go ahead? no problem. There is also the issue of dealing with different opinions on the team as to the best architecture. It's a different working environment than one dev building product working in a silo all by himself. As an admin "sweet boss" I have a simple way to handle that: most senior on the team + most work out the door in the past two years in terms of product(s) produced his or her opinion trumps "cool innovation" that actually has never used in production for anything that is actually in the app store. BR On 8/11/16, 2:17 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Dick Kriesel" wrote: Because multiple behaviors appear in a list whose sequence the developer controls, the message path stays deterministic. From blueback09 at gmail.com Fri Aug 12 01:12:13 2016 From: blueback09 at gmail.com (Matt Maier) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2016 08:12:13 +0300 Subject: livecode JSON extension Message-ID: I'm using a stack written by someone else that's trying to call what appears to be a built-in JSON library. For example, it will call jsonImport() on some JSON, but won't find that handler. The error says to check to see if the "com.livecode.library.json" extension is checked in the standalone application settings. I've checked and unchecked that extension several times. It's always checked when I open the stack. How do I get Livecode to actually use that extension? From livfoss at mac.com Fri Aug 12 07:31:03 2016 From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2016 13:31:03 +0200 Subject: SVG in widgets - any roadmap? Message-ID: Just to maintain interest in this topic - the LC Conference didn?t reveal any plans for extending the SVG capabilities of widgets in the LC 8 series. Does anyone know if such plans exist, or if on the contrary we are stuck with monochrome etc? The answer will obviously have an effect on developers seeking to make multi-resolution apps. Graham From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Fri Aug 12 08:00:33 2016 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2016 08:00:33 -0400 Subject: No data in application browser in 8.0.2 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If you mean the project browser, there is a bug report. Click in the filter box and it will show everything. There are definitely issues with 8. Another is that you can't print scripts in color, for example. From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Fri Aug 12 08:39:20 2016 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2016 08:39:20 -0400 Subject: No data in application browser in 8.0.2 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: oh, wait, there is no filter box in the pb in 8. there are no thumbnails, either :-( On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 8:00 AM, Mike Kerner wrote: > If you mean the project browser, there is a bug report. Click in the > filter box and it will show everything. There are definitely issues with > 8. Another is that you can't print scripts in color, for example. > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From admin at FlexibleLearning.com Fri Aug 12 08:56:24 2016 From: admin at FlexibleLearning.com (FlexibleLearning.com) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2016 13:56:24 +0100 Subject: Quartam Reports Message-ID: <003c01d1f498$ef3d18a0$cdb749e0$@FlexibleLearning.com> Is Jan Schenkel still doing Quartam Reports? Hugh Senior FLCo From ambassador at fourthworld.com Fri Aug 12 09:10:26 2016 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2016 06:10:26 -0700 Subject: Can use assign multiple behaviors to a single object? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote: > On 8/11/16, 12:26 PM, Richard Gaskin" wrote: >> Here's a view with nested behaviors: >> >> >> I had tried indenting each level, but found it didn't provide that >> much more clarity and preferred to keep linked behaviors at the same >> level. > > So, since we know the behaviors cannot run parallel, your view means > behavior 3 is parent of 2? And behavior 2 is a patent of 1? Yes. Scripts are shown in message flow order from top to bottom. Tip: Since MPath is designed to provide rapid access to scripts in the current message path, the window supports many hot keys to quickly navigate between sections to get to the script you're looking for. The "?" button brings up this cheat sheet: devolution is simple enough that sometimes useful features get overlooked. The simplicity is by design: the goal is to make the IDE less dominant in the work space, yielding precious screen real estate to the app you're developing. The things you need most frequently are easily available *when you need them*, otherwise out of the way. Since Fourth World's first product, SuperCard Author in 1994, I've been making variants of this sort of utility for rapid access to tools in every xTalk I've used. devolution 4.0 represents what I've learned from modding xTalk IDEs over the years. With devolution, it's less like you're building your app within the IDE than running the IDE within your app. Your work takes center stage. If you've missed some of the goodies in devolution, no worries: v4 is the first version with complete documentation (patient friends who've been using older versions for more than a decade will welcome this ). Help opens by default when devo is opened (and of course you can turn that off), and I've written the docs so that you really only need to read one brief page to get the hang of using it, the rest just detailed reference that can be read later: And in some particularly juicy places, like MPath, you'll find a summary of useful tips right in that pane, so you don't even need to open the separate Help window. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From james at thehales.id.au Fri Aug 12 10:09:56 2016 From: james at thehales.id.au (jameshale) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2016 07:09:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: QCC down? Message-ID: <1471010996835-4707434.post@n4.nabble.com> Just tried to look at a bug and got a forbidden entry. Specifically the following three lines... Forbidden You don't have permission to access / on this server. Additionally, a 403 Forbidden error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request. Can others get in? James -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/QCC-down-tp4707434.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From james at thehales.id.au Fri Aug 12 10:11:31 2016 From: james at thehales.id.au (jameshale) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2016 07:11:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: QCC down? In-Reply-To: <1471010996835-4707434.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1471010996835-4707434.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <1471011091563-4707435.post@n4.nabble.com> Never mind. I have been let in now. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/QCC-down-tp4707434p4707435.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From peter.brett at livecode.com Fri Aug 12 10:12:39 2016 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2016 15:12:39 +0100 Subject: QCC down? In-Reply-To: <1471010996835-4707434.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1471010996835-4707434.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: On 12/08/2016 15:09, jameshale wrote: > Just tried to look at a bug and got a forbidden entry. Specifically the > following three lines... > > Forbidden > You don't have permission to access / on this server. > Additionally, a 403 Forbidden error was encountered while trying to use an > ErrorDocument to handle the request. Nothing to see here... move along, please... Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Technical Project Manager LiveCode 2016 Conference: https://livecode.com/edinburgh-2016/ From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Fri Aug 12 10:32:56 2016 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2016 10:32:56 -0400 Subject: Quartam Reports In-Reply-To: <003c01d1f498$ef3d18a0$cdb749e0$@FlexibleLearning.com> References: <003c01d1f498$ef3d18a0$cdb749e0$@FlexibleLearning.com> Message-ID: Jan has not been responding to emails for months and months and months. QR was supposed to be open-sourced many (many) months ago. On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 8:56 AM, FlexibleLearning.com < admin at flexiblelearning.com> wrote: > Is Jan Schenkel still doing Quartam Reports? > > Hugh Senior > FLCo > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From dochawk at gmail.com Fri Aug 12 11:22:48 2016 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2016 08:22:48 -0700 Subject: No data in application browser in 8.0.2 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 5:00 AM, Mike Kerner wrote: > If you mean the project browser, there is a bug report. No, I mean the application browser. I'm one of the ones that finds the project browser impractical, enough so that I rarely fire up 8 and stay with 7. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From ambassador at fourthworld.com Fri Aug 12 11:27:15 2016 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2016 08:27:15 -0700 Subject: No data in application browser in 8.0.2 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <19802f6e-3d21-8d06-0c46-2f2a22f7bfdb@fourthworld.com> Dr. Hawkins wrote: > On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 5:00 AM, Mike Kerner >> If you mean the project browser, there is a bug report. > > No, I mean the application browser. > > I'm one of the ones that finds the project browser impractical, > enough so that I rarely fire up 8 and stay with 7. 7 is EOL, and the Application Browser is still in v8 as a plugin as it was in v7. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From dochawk at gmail.com Fri Aug 12 12:18:49 2016 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2016 09:18:49 -0700 Subject: No data in application browser in 8.0.2 In-Reply-To: <19802f6e-3d21-8d06-0c46-2f2a22f7bfdb@fourthworld.com> References: <19802f6e-3d21-8d06-0c46-2f2a22f7bfdb@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 8:27 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > 7 is EOL, and the Application Browser is still in v8 as a plugin as it was > in v7. Yes, but it doesn't work at the moment. It opens, and displays nothing. And I'll point out again, until 8 works properly, 7 shouldn't be EOL . . . -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Aug 12 12:36:59 2016 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2016 16:36:59 +0000 Subject: Double Tap Shif Key?? Message-ID: <65F7B6C8-D529-4D30-8619-25FA8034D3BF@iotecdigital.com> Hi all. Anyone else notice this in LC Indy 8.0.1? When entering a password in an answer password dialog, Shifted characters require that I have to tap the key I want twice as in Shift-T-T (or some other such character). I am running in a parallels VM Windows 7 hosted by El Capitan (not usre if that makes a difference). Bob S From ambassador at fourthworld.com Fri Aug 12 12:42:09 2016 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2016 09:42:09 -0700 Subject: No data in application browser in 8.0.2 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dr. Hawkins wrote: > On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 8:27 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > >> 7 is EOL, and the Application Browser is still in v8 as a plugin >> as it was in v7. > > Yes, but it doesn't work at the moment. > > It opens, and displays nothing. What's the bug report ID/URL? > And I'll point out again, until 8 works properly, 7 shouldn't be EOL Aside from the deprecated App Browser, what issues have you found specific to v8 that are preventing you from delivering your apps with it? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From fraser.gordon at livecode.com Fri Aug 12 12:42:29 2016 From: fraser.gordon at livecode.com (Fraser Gordon) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2016 17:42:29 +0100 Subject: No data in application browser in 8.0.2 In-Reply-To: References: <19802f6e-3d21-8d06-0c46-2f2a22f7bfdb@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <38bdc8f5-acfd-ec1e-0b84-d60a2ce5f74c@livecode.com> On 12/08/2016 17:18, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > Yes, but it doesn't work at the moment. > > It opens, and displays nothing. > > And I'll point out again, until 8 works properly, 7 shouldn't be EOL . . . If there isn't a bug in the bug database, then we don't know about it, which means that it can't be factored into making decisions about software releases. While Apple does offer a product called Time Machine, it doesn't seem to be working for future entries in Bugzilla ;) I've just tested locally and it is working for me. To be able to resolve this issue, we need more information. What platform are you running on? What OS version? Do you have any third-party plugins or externals loaded? When you say "displays nothing", is the entire window blank or are there simply no items in the tree view? More generally, you seem to encounter a number of problems that other users don't (or they simply aren't reporting them). Either way, we need to find out what is different, whether it is your work-flow, system or IDE configuration or something else. Because the IDE runs in the same process as the stacks you're working on, it is sensitive to messages being locked or blocking front-/back-scripts being used. Fraser From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Aug 12 12:49:32 2016 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2016 16:49:32 +0000 Subject: put one array after another In-Reply-To: <8460fa21-3cf4-603d-814e-d68d0a02c4b2@fourthworld.com> References: <156793ea587-33ba-18a@webstg-a03.mail.aol.com> <8460fa21-3cf4-603d-814e-d68d0a02c4b2@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <5507341B-2F5F-4624-8CEE-C2524A685457@iotecdigital.com> Not sure if it would help, but I wrote two functions that are able to convert arrays into strings and then back into arrays again. It works with nested arrays too. They could be used to create an array merging function where you could tell a 3rd function how to perform the merge. Bob S From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Aug 12 12:49:56 2016 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2016 16:49:56 +0000 Subject: Double Tap Shif Key?? In-Reply-To: <65F7B6C8-D529-4D30-8619-25FA8034D3BF@iotecdigital.com> References: <65F7B6C8-D529-4D30-8619-25FA8034D3BF@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: Apparently only a problem in the IDE. Standalone seems to work properly. Bob S > On Aug 12, 2016, at 09:36 , Bob Sneidar wrote: > > Hi all. > > Anyone else notice this in LC Indy 8.0.1? When entering a password in an answer password dialog, Shifted characters require that I have to tap the key I want twice as in Shift-T-T (or some other such character). I am running in a parallels VM Windows 7 hosted by El Capitan (not usre if that makes a difference). > > Bob S > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Aug 12 12:52:14 2016 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2016 16:52:14 +0000 Subject: Trouble setting the font of the text of a field In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8EA06F3A-12C9-479E-B8C0-6CE5BB114952@iotecdigital.com> Right. The text of a field does not have the textfont property. Think of it as plain text. Bob S On Aug 11, 2016, at 13:45 , Dr. Hawkins > wrote: It did, it did! I had been trying "char 1 to -1 of the text of tgTg", which I suppose gets past the same way as "the text of" . . . From benr_mc at cogapp.com Fri Aug 12 13:06:09 2016 From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2016 18:06:09 +0100 Subject: No data in application browser in 8.0.2 In-Reply-To: References: <19802f6e-3d21-8d06-0c46-2f2a22f7bfdb@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On 12/08/2016 17:18, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 8:27 AM, Richard Gaskin > wrote: > >> 7 is EOL, and the Application Browser is still in v8 as a plugin as it was >> in v7. > > > Yes, but it doesn't work at the moment. > > It opens, and displays nothing. FWIW: I'm also a recidivist Application Browser user (though I'm trying to reform) but it's working fine for me in 8.1.0 dp3 on macOS 10.11.5. What platform are you seeing this issue on? > And I'll point out again, until 8 works properly, 7 shouldn't be EOL . . . My 2p: I don't think you can define "works properly", unless either as "no known bugs" (will never happen) or "can ship products using" (at least for me, this is already true in 8, for all that I'm still using 6 for one app, and 7 for another). So I'd rather that the limited resources available are put towards improving 8 as far as possible, rather than being partially diverted to maintaining 7, 6, or earlier versions. Ben From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Aug 12 13:29:18 2016 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2016 12:29:18 -0500 Subject: No data in application browser in 8.0.2 In-Reply-To: References: <19802f6e-3d21-8d06-0c46-2f2a22f7bfdb@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <1567fcd05b0.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> I submitted several issues with the app browser and they were all fixed recently. Give it a try in 8.1. I never saw a totally blank browser but a lot of expected interactions were broken, which now work again. Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On August 12, 2016 11:20:05 AM "Dr. Hawkins" wrote: > On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 8:27 AM, Richard Gaskin > wrote: > >> 7 is EOL, and the Application Browser is still in v8 as a plugin as it was >> in v7. > > > Yes, but it doesn't work at the moment. > > It opens, and displays nothing. > > And I'll point out again, until 8 works properly, 7 shouldn't be EOL . . . > > > -- > Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. > (702) 508-8462 > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From lfredricks at proactive-intl.com Fri Aug 12 13:31:17 2016 From: lfredricks at proactive-intl.com (Lynn Fredricks) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2016 10:31:17 -0700 Subject: Quartam Reports In-Reply-To: <003c01d1f498$ef3d18a0$cdb749e0$@FlexibleLearning.com> References: <003c01d1f498$ef3d18a0$cdb749e0$@FlexibleLearning.com> Message-ID: <52C33A0F872447F49E10D48C50A15007@GATEWAY> > Is Jan Schenkel still doing Quartam Reports? There are alternatives. Valentina Reports ADK is available for LiveCode. It works with other databases, not just Valentina, but also SQLite, MySQL, PostgreSQL, etc. The actual visual report building takes place in Valentina Studio Pro. The same reports can also scale up to Valentina Server, which includes both DB and Reports serving. Best regards, Lynn Fredricks Paradigma Software http://www.paradigmasoft.com Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server From tkuypers at publishingtools4u.com Fri Aug 12 19:43:24 2016 From: tkuypers at publishingtools4u.com (Ton Kuypers) Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2016 01:43:24 +0200 Subject: Create ean-13 barcode in LiveCode Message-ID: <865BB502-C280-4B5F-8280-83BA36CEC0D4@publishingtools4u.com> Has anyone taken the time to create EAN-13 or UPC barcodes directly in LiveCode? I need to add an addition to a productmanagement system (written in LC), so it is able to output labels with a barcode on it. I have found all the specs to do so, but if anyone already invented the wheel? Met vriendelijke groeten, Warm Regards, Ton Kuypers +32 (0) 477 739 530 Steenweg op Leopoldsburg 100 ? B-2490 ? Balen ? Belgium www.publishingtools4u.com From monte at appisle.net Fri Aug 12 20:05:51 2016 From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding) Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2016 10:05:51 +1000 Subject: Create ean-13 barcode in LiveCode In-Reply-To: <865BB502-C280-4B5F-8280-83BA36CEC0D4@publishingtools4u.com> References: <865BB502-C280-4B5F-8280-83BA36CEC0D4@publishingtools4u.com> Message-ID: <133DE118-1D1A-4C75-9638-7FD03B85611B@appisle.net> Sounds like a handy open source library when you work it out. I suspect this would be a really good use case for a widget. > On 13 Aug 2016, at 9:43 AM, Ton Kuypers wrote: > > Has anyone taken the time to create EAN-13 or UPC barcodes directly in LiveCode? > I need to add an addition to a productmanagement system (written in LC), so it is able to output labels with a barcode on it. I have found all the specs to do so, but if anyone already invented the wheel? > > > Met vriendelijke groeten, > Warm Regards, > > > > Ton Kuypers > +32 (0) 477 739 530 > > Steenweg op Leopoldsburg 100 ? B-2490 ? Balen ? Belgium > www.publishingtools4u.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Fri Aug 12 21:56:30 2016 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2016 18:56:30 -0700 Subject: No data in application browser in 8.0.2 In-Reply-To: References: <19802f6e-3d21-8d06-0c46-2f2a22f7bfdb@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <53ec3de1-aa54-72af-29ac-c35f796f6ed2@ahsoftware.net> On 08/12/2016 10:06 AM, Ben Rubinstein wrote: > FWIW: I'm also a recidivist Application Browser user (though I'm trying > to reform) but it's working fine for me in 8.1.0 dp3 on macOS 10.11.5. > What platform are you seeing this issue on? Yes, the Application Browser is also working fine for me on both OSX and linux on all LC versions. Annoyingly, the listserv keeps losing (bouncing) emails for me, so I can't reply to the original thread. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Fri Aug 12 23:06:25 2016 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2016 23:06:25 -0400 Subject: Create ean-13 barcode in LiveCode In-Reply-To: <133DE118-1D1A-4C75-9638-7FD03B85611B@appisle.net> References: <865BB502-C280-4B5F-8280-83BA36CEC0D4@publishingtools4u.com> <133DE118-1D1A-4C75-9638-7FD03B85611B@appisle.net> Message-ID: Have you tried looking for an EAN or UPC font? That's usually the easiest way to do it. On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 8:05 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > Sounds like a handy open source library when you work it out. I suspect > this would be a really good use case for a widget. > > > On 13 Aug 2016, at 9:43 AM, Ton Kuypers > wrote: > > > > Has anyone taken the time to create EAN-13 or UPC barcodes directly in > LiveCode? > > I need to add an addition to a productmanagement system (written in LC), > so it is able to output labels with a barcode on it. I have found all the > specs to do so, but if anyone already invented the wheel? > > > > > > Met vriendelijke groeten, > > Warm Regards, > > > > > > > > Ton Kuypers > > +32 (0) 477 739 530 > > > > Steenweg op Leopoldsburg 100 ? B-2490 ? Balen ? Belgium > > www.publishingtools4u.com > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From beugelaar at solidit.nl Sat Aug 13 00:19:59 2016 From: beugelaar at solidit.nl (Erik Beugelaar) Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2016 06:19:59 +0200 Subject: Create ean-13 barcode in LiveCode Message-ID: <6gx7kbf7ojfo2vshr4pcwwod.1471061953137@email.android.com> Hi Ton, Take a look at https://github.com/trozware/rev_stacks?files=1 Also Monte has made an external: http://mergext.com/home/mergzxing/ Cheers, Erik Beugelaar Ton Kuypers wrote: Has anyone taken the time to create EAN-13 or UPC barcodes directly in LiveCode? I need to add an addition to a productmanagement system (written in LC), so it is able to output labels with a barcode on it. I have found all the specs to do so, but if anyone already invented the wheel? Met vriendelijke groeten, Warm Regards, Ton Kuypers +32 (0) 477 739 530 Steenweg op Leopoldsburg 100 ? B-2490 ? Balen ? Belgium www.publishingtools4u.com _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sat Aug 13 05:01:05 2016 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (richmond) Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2016 10:01:05 +0100 Subject: No data in application browser in 8.0.2 In-Reply-To: <53ec3de1-aa54-72af-29ac-c35f796f6ed2@ahsoftware.net> References: <19802f6e-3d21-8d06-0c46-2f2a22f7bfdb@fourthworld.com> <53ec3de1-aa54-72af-29ac-c35f796f6ed2@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: I'm on holiday so I only have my 32-bit Linux laptop (Mint 18 xfce) with me, but have just installed 8.0.2 stable and the Application Browser (which I depend on) works "as it should". Richmond. On 08/13/2016 02:56 AM, Mark Wieder wrote: > On 08/12/2016 10:06 AM, Ben Rubinstein wrote: > >> FWIW: I'm also a recidivist Application Browser user (though I'm trying >> to reform) but it's working fine for me in 8.1.0 dp3 on macOS 10.11.5. >> What platform are you seeing this issue on? > > Yes, the Application Browser is also working fine for me on both OSX > and linux on all LC versions. > > Annoyingly, the listserv keeps losing (bouncing) emails for me, so I > can't reply to the original thread. > From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sat Aug 13 09:56:24 2016 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2016 09:56:24 -0400 Subject: Create ean-13 barcode in LiveCode In-Reply-To: <6gx7kbf7ojfo2vshr4pcwwod.1471061953137@email.android.com> References: <6gx7kbf7ojfo2vshr4pcwwod.1471061953137@email.android.com> Message-ID: Erik and Ton, mergzxing is for scanning, not for creating. Also, mergAV has a better barcode scanner than mergZX does, for any number of reasons. On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 12:19 AM, Erik Beugelaar wrote: > Hi Ton, > > Take a look at https://github.com/trozware/rev_stacks?files=1 > > Also Monte has made an external: > http://mergext.com/home/mergzxing/ > > Cheers, > Erik Beugelaar > > > > Ton Kuypers wrote: > > Has anyone taken the time to create EAN-13 or UPC barcodes directly in > LiveCode? > I need to add an addition to a productmanagement system (written in LC), > so it is able to output labels with a barcode on it. I have found all the > specs to do so, but if anyone already invented the wheel? > > > Met vriendelijke groeten, > Warm Regards, > > > > Ton Kuypers > +32 (0) 477 739 530 > > Steenweg op Leopoldsburg 100 ? B-2490 ? Balen ? Belgium > www.publishingtools4u.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat Aug 13 14:51:11 2016 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2016 13:51:11 -0500 Subject: Play m4a files on Windows 7 In-Reply-To: <61a16703-c9e0-a512-bcfc-75c7d64d662f@hyperactivesw.com> References: <61a16703-c9e0-a512-bcfc-75c7d64d662f@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <60797ad4-5bd6-1f7a-321b-07681c4fdd2e@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/9/2016 4:58 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > On 8/9/2016 4:26 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: >> We need to play .m4a files on Windows 7 and up. Double-clicking one of >> those files plays back successfully on a Win 7 machine. Loading a player >> control with the URL to the file in LC on the same machine does not (LC >> 7.1.4). >> >> Is this fixable? Is there something users can install to make it work? >> Or do we need a more recent version of LC? >> > > Poking around, it looks like I have to build in LC 8.1. If that's > correct, then it's risky, it isn't stable yet. Is there any other way? > I've done some tests on both Windows 10 and Vista using LC 8.1 but m4a files still do not play when setting the filename of a player. They do play using WMP. This is becoming an urgent issue for my client and I need to get it working quickly. Does anyone know what we need to install, or how to get this working? Is anyone else able to play .m4a files on Windows using the new player object? -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From bogdanoff at me.com Sat Aug 13 15:09:50 2016 From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff) Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2016 12:09:50 -0700 Subject: Play m4a files on Windows 7 In-Reply-To: <60797ad4-5bd6-1f7a-321b-07681c4fdd2e@hyperactivesw.com> References: <61a16703-c9e0-a512-bcfc-75c7d64d662f@hyperactivesw.com> <60797ad4-5bd6-1f7a-321b-07681c4fdd2e@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <20FBD609-AE21-4F12-B714-ED8F3460C08B@me.com> I see that Ian Macphail says: "We decided to overhaul the Windows player object, replacing the existing Quicktime based implementation with one based on DirectShow, which is fully supported on all current Windows versions.? https://livecode.com/removing-quicktime-dependency-from-livecodes-player-object/ And the Microsoft page describing DirectShow?s supported formats (a rather limited list)-- .m4a is not one of them: https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms787745(VS.85).aspx I?m very interested in this subject, especially when LC gets callbacks working. Peter Bogdanoff UCLA On Aug 13, 2016, at 11:51 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > On 8/9/2016 4:58 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: >> On 8/9/2016 4:26 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: >>> We need to play .m4a files on Windows 7 and up. Double-clicking one of >>> those files plays back successfully on a Win 7 machine. Loading a player >>> control with the URL to the file in LC on the same machine does not (LC >>> 7.1.4). >>> >>> Is this fixable? Is there something users can install to make it work? >>> Or do we need a more recent version of LC? >>> >> >> Poking around, it looks like I have to build in LC 8.1. If that's >> correct, then it's risky, it isn't stable yet. Is there any other way? >> > > I've done some tests on both Windows 10 and Vista using LC 8.1 but m4a files still do not play when setting the filename of a player. They do play using WMP. This is becoming an urgent issue for my client and I need to get it working quickly. Does anyone know what we need to install, or how to get this working? > > Is anyone else able to play .m4a files on Windows using the new player object? > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat Aug 13 15:57:54 2016 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2016 14:57:54 -0500 Subject: Play m4a files on Windows 7 In-Reply-To: <20FBD609-AE21-4F12-B714-ED8F3460C08B@me.com> References: <61a16703-c9e0-a512-bcfc-75c7d64d662f@hyperactivesw.com> <60797ad4-5bd6-1f7a-321b-07681c4fdd2e@hyperactivesw.com> <20FBD609-AE21-4F12-B714-ED8F3460C08B@me.com> Message-ID: <136ce8e9-21dd-50b4-06de-acec7c855869@hyperactivesw.com> Yes, you're right. We're pretty much screwed then. All the universities have demanded that QT be removed from all site computers and our app depends on .m4a audio. There are too many audio files to convert to another format, and the audio guy refuses to do it anyway due to the quality degredation. We tried installing a codec pack but that didn't work either. We're in trouble. On 8/13/2016 2:09 PM, Peter Bogdanoff wrote: > I see that Ian Macphail says: > "We decided to overhaul the Windows player object, replacing the existing Quicktime based implementation with one based on DirectShow, which is fully supported on all current Windows versions.? > https://livecode.com/removing-quicktime-dependency-from-livecodes-player-object/ > > And the Microsoft page describing DirectShow?s supported formats (a rather limited list)-- .m4a is not one of them: > https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms787745(VS.85).aspx > > I?m very interested in this subject, especially when LC gets callbacks working. > > Peter Bogdanoff > UCLA > > > On Aug 13, 2016, at 11:51 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > >> On 8/9/2016 4:58 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: >>> On 8/9/2016 4:26 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: >>>> We need to play .m4a files on Windows 7 and up. Double-clicking one of >>>> those files plays back successfully on a Win 7 machine. Loading a player >>>> control with the URL to the file in LC on the same machine does not (LC >>>> 7.1.4). >>>> >>>> Is this fixable? Is there something users can install to make it work? >>>> Or do we need a more recent version of LC? >>>> >>> >>> Poking around, it looks like I have to build in LC 8.1. If that's >>> correct, then it's risky, it isn't stable yet. Is there any other way? >>> >> >> I've done some tests on both Windows 10 and Vista using LC 8.1 but m4a files still do not play when setting the filename of a player. They do play using WMP. This is becoming an urgent issue for my client and I need to get it working quickly. Does anyone know what we need to install, or how to get this working? >> >> Is anyone else able to play .m4a files on Windows using the new player object? >> >> -- >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From merakosp at gmail.com Sat Aug 13 16:06:17 2016 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2016 23:06:17 +0300 Subject: Play m4a files on Windows 7 In-Reply-To: <136ce8e9-21dd-50b4-06de-acec7c855869@hyperactivesw.com> References: <61a16703-c9e0-a512-bcfc-75c7d64d662f@hyperactivesw.com> <60797ad4-5bd6-1f7a-321b-07681c4fdd2e@hyperactivesw.com> <20FBD609-AE21-4F12-B714-ED8F3460C08B@me.com> <136ce8e9-21dd-50b4-06de-acec7c855869@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Hi all, @Jacque: I can successfully play .m4a audio files on Windows 7 using LC 8.1 dp3 *after* installing the LAV filters suggested in the LC Forums: http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=27380 Note that this is not officially suggested by LiveCode Ltd, it is just a working solution. @Peter: Player callbacks are supported in LC 8.1 dp2 onwards: https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/4140 So you can try them in 8.1 dp3 which is more stable than dp2. Just one thing to note: The Windows DS player uses different timescale, so e.g the same video might have a 1200 duration on OSX and 15200 on Windows (the numbers are completely random). So when you set the callbacks do *not* use an absolute value for the time, but relative to the player duration. Best, Panos -- On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 10:57 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > Yes, you're right. We're pretty much screwed then. All the universities > have demanded that QT be removed from all site computers and our app > depends on .m4a audio. There are too many audio files to convert to another > format, and the audio guy refuses to do it anyway due to the quality > degredation. > > We tried installing a codec pack but that didn't work either. We're in > trouble. > > > On 8/13/2016 2:09 PM, Peter Bogdanoff wrote: > >> I see that Ian Macphail says: >> "We decided to overhaul the Windows player object, replacing the existing >> Quicktime based implementation with one based on DirectShow, which is fully >> supported on all current Windows versions.? >> https://livecode.com/removing-quicktime-dependency-from-live >> codes-player-object/ >> >> And the Microsoft page describing DirectShow?s supported formats (a >> rather limited list)-- .m4a is not one of them: >> https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms787745(VS.85).aspx >> >> I?m very interested in this subject, especially when LC gets callbacks >> working. >> >> Peter Bogdanoff >> UCLA >> >> >> On Aug 13, 2016, at 11:51 AM, J. Landman Gay >> wrote: >> >> On 8/9/2016 4:58 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: >>> >>>> On 8/9/2016 4:26 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: >>>> >>>>> We need to play .m4a files on Windows 7 and up. Double-clicking one of >>>>> those files plays back successfully on a Win 7 machine. Loading a >>>>> player >>>>> control with the URL to the file in LC on the same machine does not (LC >>>>> 7.1.4). >>>>> >>>>> Is this fixable? Is there something users can install to make it work? >>>>> Or do we need a more recent version of LC? >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Poking around, it looks like I have to build in LC 8.1. If that's >>>> correct, then it's risky, it isn't stable yet. Is there any other way? >>>> >>>> >>> I've done some tests on both Windows 10 and Vista using LC 8.1 but m4a >>> files still do not play when setting the filename of a player. They do play >>> using WMP. This is becoming an urgent issue for my client and I need to get >>> it working quickly. Does anyone know what we need to install, or how to get >>> this working? >>> >>> Is anyone else able to play .m4a files on Windows using the new player >>> object? >>> >>> -- >>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From dsc at swcp.com Sat Aug 13 16:08:09 2016 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2016 14:08:09 -0600 Subject: Create ean-13 barcode in LiveCode In-Reply-To: <865BB502-C280-4B5F-8280-83BA36CEC0D4@publishingtools4u.com> References: <865BB502-C280-4B5F-8280-83BA36CEC0D4@publishingtools4u.com> Message-ID: <457579EA-3996-41F5-B101-9C6C7741D458@swcp.com> I've made some for specialized applications, but I haven't created a library. Dar > On Aug 12, 2016, at 5:43 PM, Ton Kuypers wrote: > > Has anyone taken the time to create EAN-13 or UPC barcodes directly in LiveCode? > I need to add an addition to a productmanagement system (written in LC), so it is able to output labels with a barcode on it. I have found all the specs to do so, but if anyone already invented the wheel? > > > Met vriendelijke groeten, > Warm Regards, > > > > Ton Kuypers > +32 (0) 477 739 530 > > Steenweg op Leopoldsburg 100 ? B-2490 ? Balen ? Belgium > www.publishingtools4u.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > From bogdanoff at me.com Sat Aug 13 16:26:03 2016 From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff) Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2016 13:26:03 -0700 Subject: Play m4a files on Windows 7 In-Reply-To: References: <61a16703-c9e0-a512-bcfc-75c7d64d662f@hyperactivesw.com> <60797ad4-5bd6-1f7a-321b-07681c4fdd2e@hyperactivesw.com> <20FBD609-AE21-4F12-B714-ED8F3460C08B@me.com> <136ce8e9-21dd-50b4-06de-acec7c855869@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <9162A98E-B82A-400C-93DD-5E68AEDFD364@me.com> Thanks Panos! I didn?t see an announcement about callbacks? So is that different duration in Windows a predictable proportional amount compared to the duration in OSX? Is this proportion always the same number? (Or will I have to find this out myself?) My application is cross-platform with many sets of callbacks. If I can simply multiply a callback value by a constant to get a new value for Windows, that would be fine with me. I?m hoping the durations of files in Windows is really not ?random?! Peter On Aug 13, 2016, at 1:06 PM, panagiotis merakos wrote: > Hi all, > > @Jacque: > > I can successfully play .m4a audio files on Windows 7 using LC 8.1 dp3 > *after* installing the LAV filters suggested in the LC Forums: > http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=27380 > Note that this is not officially suggested by LiveCode Ltd, it is just a > working solution. > > @Peter: > > Player callbacks are supported in LC 8.1 dp2 onwards: > https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/4140 > So you can try them in 8.1 dp3 which is more stable than dp2. Just one > thing to note: > The Windows DS player uses different timescale, so e.g the same video might > have a 1200 duration on OSX and 15200 on Windows (the numbers are > completely random). So when you set the callbacks do *not* use an absolute > value for the time, but relative to the player duration. > > Best, > Panos > -- > > On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 10:57 PM, J. Landman Gay > wrote: > >> Yes, you're right. We're pretty much screwed then. All the universities >> have demanded that QT be removed from all site computers and our app >> depends on .m4a audio. There are too many audio files to convert to another >> format, and the audio guy refuses to do it anyway due to the quality >> degredation. >> >> We tried installing a codec pack but that didn't work either. We're in >> trouble. >> >> >> On 8/13/2016 2:09 PM, Peter Bogdanoff wrote: >> >>> I see that Ian Macphail says: >>> "We decided to overhaul the Windows player object, replacing the existing >>> Quicktime based implementation with one based on DirectShow, which is fully >>> supported on all current Windows versions.? >>> https://livecode.com/removing-quicktime-dependency-from-live >>> codes-player-object/ >>> >>> And the Microsoft page describing DirectShow?s supported formats (a >>> rather limited list)-- .m4a is not one of them: >>> https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms787745(VS.85).aspx >>> >>> I?m very interested in this subject, especially when LC gets callbacks >>> working. >>> >>> Peter Bogdanoff >>> UCLA >>> >>> >>> On Aug 13, 2016, at 11:51 AM, J. Landman Gay >>> wrote: >>> >>> On 8/9/2016 4:58 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 8/9/2016 4:26 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> We need to play .m4a files on Windows 7 and up. Double-clicking one of >>>>>> those files plays back successfully on a Win 7 machine. Loading a >>>>>> player >>>>>> control with the URL to the file in LC on the same machine does not (LC >>>>>> 7.1.4). >>>>>> >>>>>> Is this fixable? Is there something users can install to make it work? >>>>>> Or do we need a more recent version of LC? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> Poking around, it looks like I have to build in LC 8.1. If that's >>>>> correct, then it's risky, it isn't stable yet. Is there any other way? >>>>> >>>>> >>>> I've done some tests on both Windows 10 and Vista using LC 8.1 but m4a >>>> files still do not play when setting the filename of a player. They do play >>>> using WMP. This is becoming an urgent issue for my client and I need to get >>>> it working quickly. Does anyone know what we need to install, or how to get >>>> this working? >>>> >>>> Is anyone else able to play .m4a files on Windows using the new player >>>> object? >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >>>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> >> >> -- >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From scott at tactilemedia.com Sat Aug 13 16:33:50 2016 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2016 13:33:50 -0700 Subject: Play m4a files on Windows 7 In-Reply-To: <136ce8e9-21dd-50b4-06de-acec7c855869@hyperactivesw.com> References: <61a16703-c9e0-a512-bcfc-75c7d64d662f@hyperactivesw.com> <60797ad4-5bd6-1f7a-321b-07681c4fdd2e@hyperactivesw.com> <20FBD609-AE21-4F12-B714-ED8F3460C08B@me.com> <136ce8e9-21dd-50b4-06de-acec7c855869@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Which codec pack did you try? I was just looking at K-Lite: https://www.codecguide.com/download_kl.htm And how many audio files are you talking about? What type of content? I have to believe conversion to another format is possible. Get a batch convertor and process in bulk. I spoke to my brother who has been an audio engineer for 2 decades and he says as long as you guys keep the sampling rates/bit depths same, you'll only be changing format, and there shouldn't be any loss in quality. IMHO, even if you went to 192kps MP3, that's a pretty high bit rate, and most "normal" people (non audio engineers) aren't going to notice any difference in quality. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design On 8/13/16, 12:57 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of J. Landman Gay" wrote: >Yes, you're right. We're pretty much screwed then. All the universities >have demanded that QT be removed from all site computers and our app >depends on .m4a audio. There are too many audio files to convert to >another format, and the audio guy refuses to do it anyway due to the >quality degredation. > >We tried installing a codec pack but that didn't work either. We're in >trouble. > >On 8/13/2016 2:09 PM, Peter Bogdanoff wrote: >> I see that Ian Macphail says: >> "We decided to overhaul the Windows player object, replacing the >>existing Quicktime based implementation with one based on DirectShow, >>which is fully supported on all current Windows versions.? >> >>https://livecode.com/removing-quicktime-dependency-from-livecodes-player- >>object/ >> >> And the Microsoft page describing DirectShow?s supported formats (a >>rather limited list)-- .m4a is not one of them: >> https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms787745(VS.85).aspx >> >> I?m very interested in this subject, especially when LC gets callbacks >>working. >> >> Peter Bogdanoff >> UCLA >> >> >> On Aug 13, 2016, at 11:51 AM, J. Landman Gay >>wrote: >> >>> On 8/9/2016 4:58 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: >>>> On 8/9/2016 4:26 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: >>>>> We need to play .m4a files on Windows 7 and up. Double-clicking one >>>>>of >>>>> those files plays back successfully on a Win 7 machine. Loading a >>>>>player >>>>> control with the URL to the file in LC on the same machine does not >>>>>(LC >>>>> 7.1.4). >>>>> >>>>> Is this fixable? Is there something users can install to make it >>>>>work? >>>>> Or do we need a more recent version of LC? >>>>> >>>> >>>> Poking around, it looks like I have to build in LC 8.1. If that's >>>> correct, then it's risky, it isn't stable yet. Is there any other way? >>>> >>> >>> I've done some tests on both Windows 10 and Vista using LC 8.1 but >>>m4a files still do not play when setting the filename of a player. They >>>do play using WMP. This is becoming an urgent issue for my client and I >>>need to get it working quickly. Does anyone know what we need to >>>install, or how to get this working? >>> >>> Is anyone else able to play .m4a files on Windows using the new player >>>object? >>> >>> -- >>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > >-- >Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > >_______________________________________________ >use-livecode mailing list >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat Aug 13 16:44:37 2016 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2016 15:44:37 -0500 Subject: Play m4a files on Windows 7 In-Reply-To: References: <61a16703-c9e0-a512-bcfc-75c7d64d662f@hyperactivesw.com> <60797ad4-5bd6-1f7a-321b-07681c4fdd2e@hyperactivesw.com> <20FBD609-AE21-4F12-B714-ED8F3460C08B@me.com> <136ce8e9-21dd-50b4-06de-acec7c855869@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <823607d0-6d0f-7059-6383-ebf4e38d63c9@hyperactivesw.com> Thank you Panos, you may have saved us. I'll pass this on to the client for testing. I'm very glad you were reading the list today. :) On 8/13/2016 3:06 PM, panagiotis merakos wrote: > Hi all, > > @Jacque: > > I can successfully play .m4a audio files on Windows 7 using LC 8.1 dp3 > *after* installing the LAV filters suggested in the LC Forums: > http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=27380 > Note that this is not officially suggested by LiveCode Ltd, it is just a > working solution. > > @Peter: > > Player callbacks are supported in LC 8.1 dp2 onwards: > https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/4140 > So you can try them in 8.1 dp3 which is more stable than dp2. Just one > thing to note: > The Windows DS player uses different timescale, so e.g the same video might > have a 1200 duration on OSX and 15200 on Windows (the numbers are > completely random). So when you set the callbacks do *not* use an absolute > value for the time, but relative to the player duration. > > Best, > Panos > -- > > On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 10:57 PM, J. Landman Gay > wrote: > >> Yes, you're right. We're pretty much screwed then. All the universities >> have demanded that QT be removed from all site computers and our app >> depends on .m4a audio. There are too many audio files to convert to another >> format, and the audio guy refuses to do it anyway due to the quality >> degredation. >> >> We tried installing a codec pack but that didn't work either. We're in >> trouble. >> >> >> On 8/13/2016 2:09 PM, Peter Bogdanoff wrote: >> >>> I see that Ian Macphail says: >>> "We decided to overhaul the Windows player object, replacing the existing >>> Quicktime based implementation with one based on DirectShow, which is fully >>> supported on all current Windows versions.? >>> https://livecode.com/removing-quicktime-dependency-from-live >>> codes-player-object/ >>> >>> And the Microsoft page describing DirectShow?s supported formats (a >>> rather limited list)-- .m4a is not one of them: >>> https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms787745(VS.85).aspx >>> >>> I?m very interested in this subject, especially when LC gets callbacks >>> working. >>> >>> Peter Bogdanoff >>> UCLA >>> >>> >>> On Aug 13, 2016, at 11:51 AM, J. Landman Gay >>> wrote: >>> >>> On 8/9/2016 4:58 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 8/9/2016 4:26 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> We need to play .m4a files on Windows 7 and up. Double-clicking one of >>>>>> those files plays back successfully on a Win 7 machine. Loading a >>>>>> player >>>>>> control with the URL to the file in LC on the same machine does not (LC >>>>>> 7.1.4). >>>>>> >>>>>> Is this fixable? Is there something users can install to make it work? >>>>>> Or do we need a more recent version of LC? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> Poking around, it looks like I have to build in LC 8.1. If that's >>>>> correct, then it's risky, it isn't stable yet. Is there any other way? >>>>> >>>>> >>>> I've done some tests on both Windows 10 and Vista using LC 8.1 but m4a >>>> files still do not play when setting the filename of a player. They do play >>>> using WMP. This is becoming an urgent issue for my client and I need to get >>>> it working quickly. Does anyone know what we need to install, or how to get >>>> this working? >>>> >>>> Is anyone else able to play .m4a files on Windows using the new player >>>> object? >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >>>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> >> >> -- >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From bogdanoff at me.com Sat Aug 13 16:52:14 2016 From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff) Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2016 13:52:14 -0700 Subject: Play m4a files on Windows 7 In-Reply-To: References: <61a16703-c9e0-a512-bcfc-75c7d64d662f@hyperactivesw.com> <60797ad4-5bd6-1f7a-321b-07681c4fdd2e@hyperactivesw.com> <20FBD609-AE21-4F12-B714-ED8F3460C08B@me.com> <136ce8e9-21dd-50b4-06de-acec7c855869@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <74486C2A-65B4-4F2A-8468-DD99C6D725F4@me.com> I agree with Scott about the ?difference in quality? issue. Probably the only way people would notice a difference in audio quality would be to play the files side-by-side. Even then it would be difficult because of the relatively low quality of playback speakers/headphones. I?ve tried it with groups of people. And people really only notice bad audio when it is actually bad, not when it is just not as good as pristine. And there definitely are batch converters (free and $). But getting some audio people to believe this may be difficult. They can be a stubborn lot, especially if they come from the days of tape recording when moving analog audio around really could audibly degrade it. Peter On Aug 13, 2016, at 1:33 PM, Scott Rossi wrote: > Which codec pack did you try? I was just looking at K-Lite: > https://www.codecguide.com/download_kl.htm > > And how many audio files are you talking about? What type of content? I > have to believe conversion to another format is possible. Get a batch > convertor and process in bulk. I spoke to my brother who has been an audio > engineer for 2 decades and he says as long as you guys keep the sampling > rates/bit depths same, you'll only be changing format, and there shouldn't > be any loss in quality. > > IMHO, even if you went to 192kps MP3, that's a pretty high bit rate, and > most "normal" people (non audio engineers) aren't going to notice any > difference in quality. > > Regards, > > Scott Rossi > Creative Director > Tactile Media, UX/UI Design > > > > > On 8/13/16, 12:57 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of J. Landman Gay" > jacque at hyperactivesw.com> wrote: > >> Yes, you're right. We're pretty much screwed then. All the universities >> have demanded that QT be removed from all site computers and our app >> depends on .m4a audio. There are too many audio files to convert to >> another format, and the audio guy refuses to do it anyway due to the >> quality degredation. >> >> We tried installing a codec pack but that didn't work either. We're in >> trouble. >> >> On 8/13/2016 2:09 PM, Peter Bogdanoff wrote: >>> I see that Ian Macphail says: >>> "We decided to overhaul the Windows player object, replacing the >>> existing Quicktime based implementation with one based on DirectShow, >>> which is fully supported on all current Windows versions.? >>> >>> https://livecode.com/removing-quicktime-dependency-from-livecodes-player- >>> object/ >>> >>> And the Microsoft page describing DirectShow?s supported formats (a >>> rather limited list)-- .m4a is not one of them: >>> https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms787745(VS.85).aspx >>> >>> I?m very interested in this subject, especially when LC gets callbacks >>> working. >>> >>> Peter Bogdanoff >>> UCLA >>> >>> >>> On Aug 13, 2016, at 11:51 AM, J. Landman Gay >>> wrote: >>> >>>> On 8/9/2016 4:58 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: >>>>> On 8/9/2016 4:26 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: >>>>>> We need to play .m4a files on Windows 7 and up. Double-clicking one >>>>>> of >>>>>> those files plays back successfully on a Win 7 machine. Loading a >>>>>> player >>>>>> control with the URL to the file in LC on the same machine does not >>>>>> (LC >>>>>> 7.1.4). >>>>>> >>>>>> Is this fixable? Is there something users can install to make it >>>>>> work? >>>>>> Or do we need a more recent version of LC? >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Poking around, it looks like I have to build in LC 8.1. If that's >>>>> correct, then it's risky, it isn't stable yet. Is there any other way? >>>>> >>>> >>>> I've done some tests on both Windows 10 and Vista using LC 8.1 but >>>> m4a files still do not play when setting the filename of a player. They >>>> do play using WMP. This is becoming an urgent issue for my client and I >>>> need to get it working quickly. Does anyone know what we need to >>>> install, or how to get this working? >>>> >>>> Is anyone else able to play .m4a files on Windows using the new player >>>> object? >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >>>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> >> -- >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From merakosp at gmail.com Sat Aug 13 17:02:37 2016 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 00:02:37 +0300 Subject: Play m4a files on Windows 7 In-Reply-To: <823607d0-6d0f-7059-6383-ebf4e38d63c9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <61a16703-c9e0-a512-bcfc-75c7d64d662f@hyperactivesw.com> <60797ad4-5bd6-1f7a-321b-07681c4fdd2e@hyperactivesw.com> <20FBD609-AE21-4F12-B714-ED8F3460C08B@me.com> <136ce8e9-21dd-50b4-06de-acec7c855869@hyperactivesw.com> <823607d0-6d0f-7059-6383-ebf4e38d63c9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: @Peter You are right, I cannot see the feature note in the Release Notes of LC 8.1 DP2, although it *should* be there since the pull request that implemented that feature did include a "feature-windows_player_callbacks.md" file. This looks like a bug in the release note builder. We will investigate this on Monday. Now, regarding your question, I am not 100% sure but I think that the Windows player reports always longer duration compared to OSX, but this multiplier is not constant, it differs depending on the audio/video file. This is why I suggest setting the callbacks as a fraction of the duration, since this will work cross platform. i.e. (duration/8),callback1 (duration/6),callback2 (duration/2),callback3 ... @Jacque I am glad this helped :) On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 11:44 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > Thank you Panos, you may have saved us. I'll pass this on to the client > for testing. I'm very glad you were reading the list today. :) > > > On 8/13/2016 3:06 PM, panagiotis merakos wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> @Jacque: >> >> I can successfully play .m4a audio files on Windows 7 using LC 8.1 dp3 >> *after* installing the LAV filters suggested in the LC Forums: >> http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=27380 >> Note that this is not officially suggested by LiveCode Ltd, it is just a >> working solution. >> >> @Peter: >> >> Player callbacks are supported in LC 8.1 dp2 onwards: >> https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/4140 >> So you can try them in 8.1 dp3 which is more stable than dp2. Just one >> thing to note: >> The Windows DS player uses different timescale, so e.g the same video >> might >> have a 1200 duration on OSX and 15200 on Windows (the numbers are >> completely random). So when you set the callbacks do *not* use an absolute >> value for the time, but relative to the player duration. >> >> Best, >> Panos >> -- >> >> On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 10:57 PM, J. Landman Gay < >> jacque at hyperactivesw.com> >> wrote: >> >> Yes, you're right. We're pretty much screwed then. All the universities >>> have demanded that QT be removed from all site computers and our app >>> depends on .m4a audio. There are too many audio files to convert to >>> another >>> format, and the audio guy refuses to do it anyway due to the quality >>> degredation. >>> >>> We tried installing a codec pack but that didn't work either. We're in >>> trouble. >>> >>> >>> On 8/13/2016 2:09 PM, Peter Bogdanoff wrote: >>> >>> I see that Ian Macphail says: >>>> "We decided to overhaul the Windows player object, replacing the >>>> existing >>>> Quicktime based implementation with one based on DirectShow, which is >>>> fully >>>> supported on all current Windows versions.? >>>> https://livecode.com/removing-quicktime-dependency-from-live >>>> codes-player-object/ >>>> >>>> And the Microsoft page describing DirectShow?s supported formats (a >>>> rather limited list)-- .m4a is not one of them: >>>> https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms787745(VS.85).aspx >>>> >>>> I?m very interested in this subject, especially when LC gets callbacks >>>> working. >>>> >>>> Peter Bogdanoff >>>> UCLA >>>> >>>> >>>> On Aug 13, 2016, at 11:51 AM, J. Landman Gay >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> On 8/9/2016 4:58 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 8/9/2016 4:26 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> We need to play .m4a files on Windows 7 and up. Double-clicking one of >>>>>>> those files plays back successfully on a Win 7 machine. Loading a >>>>>>> player >>>>>>> control with the URL to the file in LC on the same machine does not >>>>>>> (LC >>>>>>> 7.1.4). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Is this fixable? Is there something users can install to make it >>>>>>> work? >>>>>>> Or do we need a more recent version of LC? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Poking around, it looks like I have to build in LC 8.1. If that's >>>>>> correct, then it's risky, it isn't stable yet. Is there any other way? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I've done some tests on both Windows 10 and Vista using LC 8.1 but >>>>> m4a >>>>> files still do not play when setting the filename of a player. They do >>>>> play >>>>> using WMP. This is becoming an urgent issue for my client and I need >>>>> to get >>>>> it working quickly. Does anyone know what we need to install, or how >>>>> to get >>>>> this working? >>>>> >>>>> Is anyone else able to play .m4a files on Windows using the new player >>>>> object? >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >>>>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat Aug 13 17:26:25 2016 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2016 16:26:25 -0500 Subject: Play m4a files on Windows 7 In-Reply-To: References: <61a16703-c9e0-a512-bcfc-75c7d64d662f@hyperactivesw.com> <60797ad4-5bd6-1f7a-321b-07681c4fdd2e@hyperactivesw.com> <20FBD609-AE21-4F12-B714-ED8F3460C08B@me.com> <136ce8e9-21dd-50b4-06de-acec7c855869@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <246ee46d-24bf-ad2d-7105-bd9fc38a9575@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/13/2016 3:33 PM, Scott Rossi wrote: > Which codec pack did you try? I was just looking at K-Lite: > https://www.codecguide.com/download_kl.htm I'm going to try the LAV package Panos suggested since he says it works. We downloaded the VLC package, which includes all the codecs, and the files played okay in VLC but not in LC. I was hesitant to suggest most of the free codecs from unknown developer sites because of the malware risk. K-Lite is widely used but some blogs have said it may be risky. It seems that the codec isn't the answer though; we need a DirectShow thingy. > And how many audio files are you talking about? What type of content? I > have to believe conversion to another format is possible. Get a batch > convertor and process in bulk. I spoke to my brother who has been an audio > engineer for 2 decades and he says as long as you guys keep the sampling > rates/bit depths same, you'll only be changing format, and there shouldn't > be any loss in quality. This is the huge project I've been working on for almost 3 years, and there are thousands of voice/narration files. They stream from the server. There are also a few music loops though we aren't using those much right now. Because the client is paying for bandwidth (AWS) he wants to keep the file format as small as possible. MP3 creates larger files which he says would add up. He also says you can't loop MP3 files without a hiccup when it restarts (I saw that too) so he's pretty firm about keeping the files in m4a format. I suppose he knows about the quality conversion options but that would make larger files too, right? > > IMHO, even if you went to 192kps MP3, that's a pretty high bit rate, and > most "normal" people (non audio engineers) aren't going to notice any > difference in quality. I've been gently telling him that for a long time. The users are students with with mediocre laptop speakers, or they use the school computers, and they don't care about audio quality anyway. But if the LAV installation doesn't fix things he may have to concede. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat Aug 13 17:40:18 2016 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2016 16:40:18 -0500 Subject: Play m4a files on Windows 7 In-Reply-To: <74486C2A-65B4-4F2A-8468-DD99C6D725F4@me.com> References: <61a16703-c9e0-a512-bcfc-75c7d64d662f@hyperactivesw.com> <60797ad4-5bd6-1f7a-321b-07681c4fdd2e@hyperactivesw.com> <20FBD609-AE21-4F12-B714-ED8F3460C08B@me.com> <136ce8e9-21dd-50b4-06de-acec7c855869@hyperactivesw.com> <74486C2A-65B4-4F2A-8468-DD99C6D725F4@me.com> Message-ID: On 8/13/2016 3:52 PM, Peter Bogdanoff wrote: > I agree with Scott about the ?difference in quality? issue. Probably > the only way people would notice a difference in audio quality would > be to play the files side-by-side. Even then it would be difficult > because of the relatively low quality of playback > speakers/headphones. I?ve tried it with groups of people. And people > really only notice bad audio when it is actually bad, not when it is > just not as good as pristine. > > And there definitely are batch converters (free and $). > > But getting some audio people to believe this may be difficult. They > can be a stubborn lot, especially if they come from the days of tape > recording when moving analog audio around really could audibly > degrade it. That's it in a nutshell. But there's also the more legitimate issue that a high-quality mp3 file is going to be larger than the equivalent m4a. With the number of users they have repeatedly streaming the files, it'll cost them. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From scott at tactilemedia.com Sat Aug 13 17:59:04 2016 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2016 14:59:04 -0700 Subject: Play m4a files on Windows 7 In-Reply-To: References: <61a16703-c9e0-a512-bcfc-75c7d64d662f@hyperactivesw.com> <60797ad4-5bd6-1f7a-321b-07681c4fdd2e@hyperactivesw.com> <20FBD609-AE21-4F12-B714-ED8F3460C08B@me.com> <136ce8e9-21dd-50b4-06de-acec7c855869@hyperactivesw.com> <74486C2A-65B4-4F2A-8468-DD99C6D725F4@me.com> Message-ID: <28E2944F-95A6-4F33-828E-E401024ED6AB@tactilemedia.com> There's another factor to your advantage here, if the majority of your content is voice. Voice is WAY more forgiving of high compression than music, so I would say you're good choosing a different format rather than jumping through hoops trying to accommodate m4a. Save yourself some headache. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media UX/UI Design > On Aug 13, 2016, at 2:40 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > >> On 8/13/2016 3:52 PM, Peter Bogdanoff wrote: >> I agree with Scott about the ?difference in quality? issue. Probably >> the only way people would notice a difference in audio quality would >> be to play the files side-by-side. Even then it would be difficult >> because of the relatively low quality of playback >> speakers/headphones. I?ve tried it with groups of people. And people >> really only notice bad audio when it is actually bad, not when it is >> just not as good as pristine. >> >> And there definitely are batch converters (free and $). >> >> But getting some audio people to believe this may be difficult. They >> can be a stubborn lot, especially if they come from the days of tape >> recording when moving analog audio around really could audibly >> degrade it. > > That's it in a nutshell. But there's also the more legitimate issue that a high-quality mp3 file is going to be larger than the equivalent m4a. With the number of users they have repeatedly streaming the files, it'll cost them. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat Aug 13 18:11:14 2016 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2016 17:11:14 -0500 Subject: Play m4a files on Windows 7 In-Reply-To: <28E2944F-95A6-4F33-828E-E401024ED6AB@tactilemedia.com> References: <61a16703-c9e0-a512-bcfc-75c7d64d662f@hyperactivesw.com> <60797ad4-5bd6-1f7a-321b-07681c4fdd2e@hyperactivesw.com> <20FBD609-AE21-4F12-B714-ED8F3460C08B@me.com> <136ce8e9-21dd-50b4-06de-acec7c855869@hyperactivesw.com> <74486C2A-65B4-4F2A-8468-DD99C6D725F4@me.com> <28E2944F-95A6-4F33-828E-E401024ED6AB@tactilemedia.com> Message-ID: I'm sure you're right. I'll tell him, but he's got the final say. On 8/13/2016 4:59 PM, Scott Rossi wrote: > There's another factor to your advantage here, if the majority of your content is voice. Voice is WAY more forgiving of high compression than music, so I would say you're good choosing a different format rather than jumping through hoops trying to accommodate m4a. Save yourself some headache. > > Regards, > > Scott Rossi > Creative Director > Tactile Media UX/UI Design > > >> On Aug 13, 2016, at 2:40 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: >> >>> On 8/13/2016 3:52 PM, Peter Bogdanoff wrote: >>> I agree with Scott about the ?difference in quality? issue. Probably >>> the only way people would notice a difference in audio quality would >>> be to play the files side-by-side. Even then it would be difficult >>> because of the relatively low quality of playback >>> speakers/headphones. I?ve tried it with groups of people. And people >>> really only notice bad audio when it is actually bad, not when it is >>> just not as good as pristine. >>> >>> And there definitely are batch converters (free and $). >>> >>> But getting some audio people to believe this may be difficult. They >>> can be a stubborn lot, especially if they come from the days of tape >>> recording when moving analog audio around really could audibly >>> degrade it. >> >> That's it in a nutshell. But there's also the more legitimate issue that a high-quality mp3 file is going to be larger than the equivalent m4a. With the number of users they have repeatedly streaming the files, it'll cost them. >> >> -- >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From brahma at hindu.org Sat Aug 13 18:50:47 2016 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2016 22:50:47 +0000 Subject: Play m4a files on Windows 7 In-Reply-To: References: <61a16703-c9e0-a512-bcfc-75c7d64d662f@hyperactivesw.com> <60797ad4-5bd6-1f7a-321b-07681c4fdd2e@hyperactivesw.com> <20FBD609-AE21-4F12-B714-ED8F3460C08B@me.com> <136ce8e9-21dd-50b4-06de-acec7c855869@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Just minutes ago I converted 2GB of audio (mono voice) coming into Audition at 44100 Hz/32-bit to 16000hz/24bit CBR and got the whole repository down to 250MB! And I tested on discriminating ears here and they cannot hear *any* significant difference. BR On 8/13/16, 10:33 AM, "use-livecode on behalf of Scott Rossi" wrote: IMHO, even if you went to 192kps MP3, that's a pretty high bit rate, and most "normal" people (non audio engineers) aren't going to notice any difference in quality. From brahma at hindu.org Sat Aug 13 19:03:18 2016 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2016 23:03:18 +0000 Subject: Play m4a files on Windows 7 In-Reply-To: References: <61a16703-c9e0-a512-bcfc-75c7d64d662f@hyperactivesw.com> <60797ad4-5bd6-1f7a-321b-07681c4fdd2e@hyperactivesw.com> <20FBD609-AE21-4F12-B714-ED8F3460C08B@me.com> <136ce8e9-21dd-50b4-06de-acec7c855869@hyperactivesw.com> <74486C2A-65B4-4F2A-8468-DD99C6D725F4@me.com> <28E2944F-95A6-4F33-828E-E401024ED6AB@tactilemedia.com> Message-ID: <03339BE5-8B15-448A-9ACD-3630CB532BA9@hindu.org> ditto what Scott said. I've processed vocal audio every week for the last 15 years? We have had this m4a vs mp3 discussion in house for years? the m4a man typically is an audiophile that uses settings that are entirely unnecessary for average listener (we do a lot of voice)? sure, if it were orchestral music? but it's not. I go ahead and produce an MP3 file of the same file with a *smaller* file size than the m4a file(s) and no one can tell the difference. BR On 8/13/16, 12:11 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of J. Landman Gay" wrote: I'm sure you're right. I'll tell him, but he's got the final say. On 8/13/2016 4:59 PM, Scott Rossi wrote: >There's another factor to your advantage here, if the majority of your content is voice. Voice is WAY more forgiving of high compression than music, so I would say you're good choosing a different format rather than jumping through hoops trying to accommodate m4a. Save yourself some headache. From stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com Sat Aug 13 20:40:31 2016 From: stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com (stephen barncard) Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2016 17:40:31 -0700 Subject: Play m4a files on Windows 7 In-Reply-To: <03339BE5-8B15-448A-9ACD-3630CB532BA9@hindu.org> References: <61a16703-c9e0-a512-bcfc-75c7d64d662f@hyperactivesw.com> <60797ad4-5bd6-1f7a-321b-07681c4fdd2e@hyperactivesw.com> <20FBD609-AE21-4F12-B714-ED8F3460C08B@me.com> <136ce8e9-21dd-50b4-06de-acec7c855869@hyperactivesw.com> <74486C2A-65B4-4F2A-8468-DD99C6D725F4@me.com> <28E2944F-95A6-4F33-828E-E401024ED6AB@tactilemedia.com> <03339BE5-8B15-448A-9ACD-3630CB532BA9@hindu.org> Message-ID: OK hold on a minute. I sense some inaccurate reporting here.... time for me to step in... if one is comparing m4a to mp3, we have apples and oranges here. Comparing by rate numbers doesn't take into consideration the efficiency of m4a. It's not just for 'audiophiles' - that's a misconception. It's an improvement across the board, that can be used flexibly for many applications. 1. m4a codecs come in flavors. What m4a *codec* are you using? "Low Complexity or LC" creates the smallest, most compatible files. 2. m4a LC can use half the bit rate compared to mp3 for the same quality: 64k m4a LC compares or betters quality of 128k mp3 3. when it comes to converting, copying from one lossy format to another will ALWAYS degrade the audio, as opposed to WAV or AIF I've been working with audio compression for the web since the mid-90s, and have been in personal contact with one of the guys that invented the algorithms ... btw the Fraunhofer institute holds the patents on both mp3 and m4a .... sqb On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 4:03 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami < brahma at hindu.org> wrote: > We have had this m4a vs mp3 discussion in house for years? the m4a man > typically is an audiophile that uses settings that are entirely unnecessary > for average listener (we do a lot of voice)? sure, if it were orchestral > music? but it's not. I go ahead and produce an MP3 file of the same file > with a *smaller* file size than the m4a file(s) and no one can tell the > difference. > > BR > Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA - mixstream.org From brahma at hindu.org Sat Aug 13 21:51:24 2016 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 01:51:24 +0000 Subject: Play m4a files on Windows 7 In-Reply-To: References: <61a16703-c9e0-a512-bcfc-75c7d64d662f@hyperactivesw.com> <60797ad4-5bd6-1f7a-321b-07681c4fdd2e@hyperactivesw.com> <20FBD609-AE21-4F12-B714-ED8F3460C08B@me.com> <136ce8e9-21dd-50b4-06de-acec7c855869@hyperactivesw.com> <74486C2A-65B4-4F2A-8468-DD99C6D725F4@me.com> <28E2944F-95A6-4F33-828E-E401024ED6AB@tactilemedia.com> <03339BE5-8B15-448A-9ACD-3630CB532BA9@hindu.org> Message-ID: Well, clearly you have more knowledge here? of course it's assumed that Jacque's people must have the original source files (one hopes they do) in a lossless format. Setting aside blindspots on the true nature of m4a.. I thought the focus was on file size and cross platform deliverability of mono voice recordings. The issues with cross platform delivery of m4a files caused us to abandon that format years ago. So, I granted, I'm no expert there having not used m4a for years. For mono voice recordings, which I believe is what Jacque is talking about, we have been able to open a 100MB mp3 file (just today) which comes into audition as 44100HZ 32-bit float Mono? and when I export to an mp3 Sample: 16000hzMono, 16-bit, format with Gausian dithering enabled and save to mp32kbps CBR. The files size drops 12.5MB? and if I give both files to someone here they can't discern any difference, at least not enough to warrant using the 100MB version. I have to dig out the original AIFFs and test an export to m4a and see if there is a savings in file size. That would be interesting? to try your "lowest complexity/LC" option. In Adobe Audition: Choosing Apple MPEG-4 Audio gets me 127MB file vs the 12.5MB mp3. I'm not seeing a LC option but doubt it would give us that much file savings. And with m4a then we would still face the delivery issues?so if bandwidth and storage costs for 1000's of voice mono voice files are the issue, the mp3 version seems to win over m4a? what am I missing? I have more than a theoretical interest here?we also have 1000's of audio mono voice files and envision ramping up big time on production of more? if you could post on line two files: mono voice: one mp3 at 16000hz mono, 16 bit formatted at 32kbps CBR and an m4a of the same with a smaller file size, I am standing by with my headset ready to listen! BR On 8/13/16, 2:40 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of stephen barncard" wrote: OK hold on a minute. I sense some inaccurate reporting here.... time for me to step in... if one is comparing m4a to mp3, we have apples and oranges here. Comparing by rate numbers doesn't take into consideration the efficiency of m4a. It's not just for 'audiophiles' - that's a misconception. It's an improvement across the board, that can be used flexibly for many applications. 1. m4a codecs come in flavors. What m4a *codec* are you using? "Low Complexity or LC" creates the smallest, most compatible files. 2. m4a LC can use half the bit rate compared to mp3 for the same quality: 64k m4a LC compares or betters quality of 128k mp3 3. when it comes to converting, copying from one lossy format to another will ALWAYS degrade the audio, as opposed to WAV or AIF I've been working with audio compression for the web since the mid-90s, and have been in personal contact with one of the guys that invented the algorithms ... btw the Fraunhofer institute holds the patents on both mp3 and m4a .... sqb From scott at tactilemedia.com Sat Aug 13 23:52:58 2016 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2016 20:52:58 -0700 Subject: Play m4a files on Windows 7 In-Reply-To: <136ce8e9-21dd-50b4-06de-acec7c855869@hyperactivesw.com> References: <61a16703-c9e0-a512-bcfc-75c7d64d662f@hyperactivesw.com> <60797ad4-5bd6-1f7a-321b-07681c4fdd2e@hyperactivesw.com> <20FBD609-AE21-4F12-B714-ED8F3460C08B@me.com> <136ce8e9-21dd-50b4-06de-acec7c855869@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: >> I'm sure you're right. I'll tell him, but he's got the final say. FWIW: For conversion, Audacity is a decent app, but you might want to take a look at this: http://www.nch.com.au/switch/ Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design > From danoldboy at gmail.com Sun Aug 14 02:51:18 2016 From: danoldboy at gmail.com (Dan Brown) Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 07:51:18 +0100 Subject: Play m4a files on Windows 7 In-Reply-To: References: <61a16703-c9e0-a512-bcfc-75c7d64d662f@hyperactivesw.com> <60797ad4-5bd6-1f7a-321b-07681c4fdd2e@hyperactivesw.com> <20FBD609-AE21-4F12-B714-ED8F3460C08B@me.com> <136ce8e9-21dd-50b4-06de-acec7c855869@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: A workaround could be to use html5's native audio player within livecodes browser to stream the m4a files http://www.w3schools.com/html/html5_audio.asp On 14 Aug 2016 4:53 am, "Scott Rossi" wrote: > >> I'm sure you're right. I'll tell him, but he's got the final say. > > > FWIW: For conversion, Audacity is a decent app, but you might want to take > a look at this: > > http://www.nch.com.au/switch/ > > Regards, > > Scott Rossi > Creative Director > Tactile Media, UX/UI Design > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From frans at mac.com Sun Aug 14 03:26:32 2016 From: frans at mac.com (Frans Schoffelen) Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 09:26:32 +0200 Subject: m4 audio and conversion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46F62B00-3118-4DD3-A208-F27AAAA8B5D6@mac.com> Hi Jaqueline, Since we run a small studio as well we routinely do a lot of audio conversions. For batch processing we use the Mac app Sound converter pro that uses multiple cores and can generate almost anything. I don't know the necessities or quality of your audio files but if they are already m4 there must be some master AIFF or WAV files originally. If you paid someone for the files then you own those as well. Conversion to a compressed Windows format may indeed lose a bit compared to m4 but is it really that critical? Sound converter Pro is 29$ I believe and it can batch fast and whole long lists of files and folders with multiple settings. Hope this helps . Frans Schoffelen KNLG knowlegistics Berlin > On 14.08.2016, at 00:50, use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com wrote: > > Yes, you're right. We're pretty much screwed then. All the universities > have demanded that QT be removed from all site computers and our app > depends on .m4a audio. There are too many audio files to convert to > another format, and the audio guy refuses to do it anyway due to the > quality degredation. From jbv at souslelogo.com Sun Aug 14 09:06:45 2016 From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv) Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 15:06:45 +0200 Subject: list field question In-Reply-To: <46F62B00-3118-4DD3-A208-F27AAAA8B5D6@mac.com> References: <46F62B00-3118-4DD3-A208-F27AAAA8B5D6@mac.com> Message-ID: Hi list When a field behaves as a list, is it possible to temporarily disable certain lines of the field so that they aren't clickable nor selectable, while other lines remain selectable ? If yes, which property should I use ? I have searched the dictionary but to no avail... Thanks in advance. jbv From bonnmike at gmail.com Sun Aug 14 10:21:03 2016 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 08:21:03 -0600 Subject: list field question In-Reply-To: References: <46F62B00-3118-4DD3-A208-F27AAAA8B5D6@mac.com> Message-ID: I just tried a quick and dirty method, not fully fleshed but it might do what you need to if you can work out all the positioning.. I made a list field with enough entries to require scroll, then I made some graphic rectangles and lined them up with the lines I want to disable. Added 1 extra grc, then grouped them. Size the group to cover the field with the blocking graphics in the right position, then.. "set the top of grc "bottomMarker" to the top of group "maskgroup" + the formattedheight of field "myField" This causes the group to have the ability to scroll. (I actually think Ineed to add the height of the graphic also, but since I have the horizontal scrollbar turned on it just covers it up when I scroll to the max) Then, in the script for the field a simple "set the vscroll of group "maskGroup" to the vscroll of me makes them stay in sync, and moves the blocking rects along with the lines I wish to block. There are issues not worked out yet, such as.. If using a scroll wheel to adjust the field, when the mouse is over a blocked line the scrolling stops. How to line up the blocking lines dynamically (though i'm sure theres already math out there to do this so that a blocking group can be dynamically generated Of course, there is probably a way to catch the mousedown and choose to ignore it based on the mouseline, which would be much easier. On Sun, Aug 14, 2016 at 7:06 AM, jbv wrote: > Hi list > When a field behaves as a list, is it possible to temporarily disable > certain lines of the field so that they aren't clickable nor selectable, > while other lines remain selectable ? > If yes, which property should I use ? > I have searched the dictionary but to no avail... > Thanks in advance. > jbv > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From jbv at souslelogo.com Sun Aug 14 11:32:17 2016 From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv) Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 17:32:17 +0200 Subject: list field question In-Reply-To: References: <46F62B00-3118-4DD3-A208-F27AAAA8B5D6@mac.com> Message-ID: <255df94b5f91b4c5e5626bcc85fe77f3.squirrel@sage.on-rev.com> Mike Thanks for the effort, but I need something simpler. Your suggestion with mousedown/mouseline already crossed my mind, but I was wondering if there was a property or something similar... For instance, this would be very handy : disable line 2 of fld "listField" Best, jbv On Sun, August 14, 2016 4:21 pm, Mike Bonner wrote: > I just tried a quick and dirty method, not fully fleshed but it might do > what you need to if you can work out all the positioning.. > > I made a list field with enough entries to require scroll, then I made > some graphic rectangles and lined them up with the lines I want to > disable. Added 1 extra grc, then grouped them. > Size the group to cover the field with the blocking graphics in the right > position, then.. "set the top of grc "bottomMarker" to the top of group > "maskgroup" + the formattedheight of field "myField" > This causes the group to have the ability to scroll. (I actually think > Ineed to add the height of the graphic also, but since I have the > horizontal scrollbar turned on it just covers it up when I scroll to the > max) > > Then, in the script for the field a simple "set the vscroll of group > "maskGroup" to the vscroll of me makes them stay in sync, and moves the > blocking rects along with the lines I wish to block. > > There are issues not worked out yet, such as.. If using a scroll wheel to > adjust the field, when the mouse is over a blocked line the scrolling > stops. How to line up the blocking lines dynamically (though i'm sure > theres already math out there to do this so that a blocking group can be > dynamically generated > > Of course, there is probably a way to catch the mousedown and choose to > ignore it based on the mouseline, which would be much easier. > > On Sun, Aug 14, 2016 at 7:06 AM, jbv wrote: > > >> Hi list >> When a field behaves as a list, is it possible to temporarily disable >> certain lines of the field so that they aren't clickable nor selectable, >> while other lines remain selectable ? If yes, which property should I >> use ? I have searched the dictionary but to no avail... >> Thanks in advance. >> jbv >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this >> url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this > url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > From harrison at all-auctions.com Sun Aug 14 11:52:06 2016 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison) Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 11:52:06 -0400 Subject: list field question In-Reply-To: <255df94b5f91b4c5e5626bcc85fe77f3.squirrel@sage.on-rev.com> References: <46F62B00-3118-4DD3-A208-F27AAAA8B5D6@mac.com> <255df94b5f91b4c5e5626bcc85fe77f3.squirrel@sage.on-rev.com> Message-ID: Some things in life although they seems like they should have a simple solution many times they do not, and require a more difficult/complex solution. Just my 2 cents.. Sorry if it doesn?t help much. Rick > On Aug 14, 2016, at 11:32 AM, jbv wrote: > > Mike > Thanks for the effort, but I need something simpler. > Your suggestion with mousedown/mouseline already crossed my mind, > but I was wondering if there was a property or something similar... > For instance, this would be very handy : > disable line 2 of fld "listField" > > Best, > jbv > > On Sun, August 14, 2016 4:21 pm, Mike Bonner wrote: >> I just tried a quick and dirty method, not fully fleshed but it might do >> what you need to if you can work out all the positioning.. >> >> I made a list field with enough entries to require scroll, then I made >> some graphic rectangles and lined them up with the lines I want to >> disable. Added 1 extra grc, then grouped them. >> Size the group to cover the field with the blocking graphics in the right >> position, then.. "set the top of grc "bottomMarker" to the top of group >> "maskgroup" + the formattedheight of field "myField" >> This causes the group to have the ability to scroll. (I actually think >> Ineed to add the height of the graphic also, but since I have the >> horizontal scrollbar turned on it just covers it up when I scroll to the >> max) >> >> Then, in the script for the field a simple "set the vscroll of group >> "maskGroup" to the vscroll of me makes them stay in sync, and moves the >> blocking rects along with the lines I wish to block. >> >> There are issues not worked out yet, such as.. If using a scroll wheel to >> adjust the field, when the mouse is over a blocked line the scrolling >> stops. How to line up the blocking lines dynamically (though i'm sure >> theres already math out there to do this so that a blocking group can be >> dynamically generated >> >> Of course, there is probably a way to catch the mousedown and choose to >> ignore it based on the mouseline, which would be much easier. >> >> On Sun, Aug 14, 2016 at 7:06 AM, jbv wrote: >> >> >>> Hi list >>> When a field behaves as a list, is it possible to temporarily disable >>> certain lines of the field so that they aren't clickable nor selectable, >>> while other lines remain selectable ? If yes, which property should I >>> use ? I have searched the dictionary but to no avail... >>> Thanks in advance. >>> jbv >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this >>> url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this >> url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sun Aug 14 11:56:27 2016 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 10:56:27 -0500 Subject: list field question In-Reply-To: <255df94b5f91b4c5e5626bcc85fe77f3.squirrel@sage.on-rev.com> References: <46F62B00-3118-4DD3-A208-F27AAAA8B5D6@mac.com> <255df94b5f91b4c5e5626bcc85fe77f3.squirrel@sage.on-rev.com> Message-ID: <15689c4bbf8.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> I've done this in the past by faking it. Set the textcolor of the line to a light gray. Then in the mouseUp handler, check the textcolor of the clickline and if it's gray, ignore it. Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On August 14, 2016 10:33:30 AM "jbv" wrote: > Mike > Thanks for the effort, but I need something simpler. > Your suggestion with mousedown/mouseline already crossed my mind, > but I was wondering if there was a property or something similar... > For instance, this would be very handy : > disable line 2 of fld "listField" > > Best, > jbv > > On Sun, August 14, 2016 4:21 pm, Mike Bonner wrote: >> I just tried a quick and dirty method, not fully fleshed but it might do >> what you need to if you can work out all the positioning.. >> >> I made a list field with enough entries to require scroll, then I made >> some graphic rectangles and lined them up with the lines I want to >> disable. Added 1 extra grc, then grouped them. >> Size the group to cover the field with the blocking graphics in the right >> position, then.. "set the top of grc "bottomMarker" to the top of group >> "maskgroup" + the formattedheight of field "myField" >> This causes the group to have the ability to scroll. (I actually think >> Ineed to add the height of the graphic also, but since I have the >> horizontal scrollbar turned on it just covers it up when I scroll to the >> max) >> >> Then, in the script for the field a simple "set the vscroll of group >> "maskGroup" to the vscroll of me makes them stay in sync, and moves the >> blocking rects along with the lines I wish to block. >> >> There are issues not worked out yet, such as.. If using a scroll wheel to >> adjust the field, when the mouse is over a blocked line the scrolling >> stops. How to line up the blocking lines dynamically (though i'm sure >> theres already math out there to do this so that a blocking group can be >> dynamically generated >> >> Of course, there is probably a way to catch the mousedown and choose to >> ignore it based on the mouseline, which would be much easier. >> >> On Sun, Aug 14, 2016 at 7:06 AM, jbv wrote: >> >> >>> Hi list >>> When a field behaves as a list, is it possible to temporarily disable >>> certain lines of the field so that they aren't clickable nor selectable, >>> while other lines remain selectable ? If yes, which property should I >>> use ? I have searched the dictionary but to no avail... >>> Thanks in advance. >>> jbv >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this >>> url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this >> url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sun Aug 14 12:16:39 2016 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 16:16:39 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: From hh at hh.on-rev.com Mon Aug 15 06:31:32 2016 From: hh at hh.on-rev.com (-hh) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 03:31:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: A Silly Question In-Reply-To: <1568c968b3c-cc1-7256@webprd-a63.mail.aol.com> References: <48CA21C3-DC8C-401E-9E2B-D064663B335C@posteo.de> <1568c968b3c-cc1-7256@webprd-a63.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: <1471257092473-4707491.post@n4.nabble.com> > Roger G. wrote: > What do you monitor to determine if the user > clicked one or the other of these [little] arrows? The 'Little Arrows' control works for me via scrollbarLineDec and scrollbarLineInc -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/SVG-Editors-anyone-tp4707295p4707491.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From hh at hyperhh.de Mon Aug 15 06:59:53 2016 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 12:59:53 +0200 Subject: list field question Message-ID: > jbv wrote: > but I was wondering if there was a property or something similar... > For instance, this would be very handy : > disable line 2 of fld "listField" Not exactly what you want, but a similar property works for me: set hidden of line 2 of fld "listField" to true From irog at mac.com Mon Aug 15 07:59:29 2016 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 04:59:29 -0700 Subject: A Silly Question In-Reply-To: <1471257092473-4707491.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <48CA21C3-DC8C-401E-9E2B-D064663B335C@posteo.de> <1568c968b3c-cc1-7256@webprd-a63.mail.aol.com> <1471257092473-4707491.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <1E2B8459-078A-4A8C-8C8D-C490D06742AA@mac.com> [-hh] wrote: > The 'Little Arrows' control works for me via > scrollbarLineDec and scrollbarLineInc > > >> Roger G. wrote: >> What do you monitor to determine if the user >> clicked one or the other of these [little] arrows? That?s it! And a little esoteric at that . . . I?m not so mortified. Thank you, hh. Roger From peter.brett at livecode.com Mon Aug 15 08:27:03 2016 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 13:27:03 +0100 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 46 Message-ID: <91a932e0-b4c2-444c-263f-f573f1e77d5c@livecode.com> Hi all, Read about new developments in LiveCode open source and the open source community in today's edition of the "This Week in LiveCode" newsletter! Read issue #46 here: https://goo.gl/XWkOy9 This is a weekly newsletter about LiveCode, focussing on what's been going on in and around the open source project. New issues will be released weekly on Mondays. We have a dedicated mailing list that will deliver each issue directly to you e-mail, so you don't miss any! Are you doing something interesting with LiveCode Community Edition? Please get in touch and get it featured in "This Week in LiveCode"! Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Technical Project Manager lcb-mode for Emacs: https://github.com/peter-b/lcb-mode From benr_mc at cogapp.com Mon Aug 15 08:44:38 2016 From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 13:44:38 +0100 Subject: problem using mergDropbox under 8.1.0. dp 3 Message-ID: I was using mergDropbox in iOS 7, before LC acquired the suite. I believe that I also had it working under 8.0.x, before the advent of the inclusions tab in the standalone builder (but can't now be certain - I've decided to stay on the bleeding edge for anything later than 7, and recently purged all my intermediate 8 versions. I can check if it becomes relevant.). The same stack under 8.1.0 dp 3 is now failing to link to a dropbox folder. The call to mergDropboxSetup (in openStack) returns empty, as I'd hope; a call to mergDropboxIsLinked correctly returns false; however, a call afterwards to mergDropboxLink simply returns empty, where I'd expect it to throw up a Dropbox authorisation request. Subsequent calls to e.g. mergDropboxLoadMetadata not unreasonably throw errors of the form mergDropboxLoadMetadataError: Error Domain=dropbox.com Code=400 "(null)" UserInfo={error_description=No auth function available for given request, path=/, error=invalid_request} Before I log this in the QCC, is there something straightforward that I need to do differently to make this work? Many thanks, Ben From dan at clearvisiontech.com Mon Aug 15 13:32:01 2016 From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 10:32:01 -0700 Subject: SSL Help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <88EAEC0F-6C0E-4C60-94EA-D00709273FFA@clearvisiontech.com> Greetings! I had a self-signed SSL certificate on my server (a generic certificate that came with the server). I purchased a SSL certificate and installed it and set it as the default. It is working fine in every browser I try. However, in LiveCode (7.0.1), it's getting the previous self-signed SSL certificate and failing with this error: error -Error with certificate at depth: 0 issuer = /C=US/ST=Virginia/L=Herndon/O=Parallels/OU=Parallels Panel/CN=Parallels Panel/emailAddress=info at parallels.com subject = /C=US/ST=Virginia/L=Herndon/O=Parallels/OU=Parallels Panel/CN=Parallels Panel/emailAddress=info at parallels.com err 18:self signed certificate Of course, if I set libURLSetSSLVerification to false, then it's fine. Lastly, it works fine in LC 8 (but for a verity of reasons, I can't use LC 8) Any thoughts? -Dan From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Aug 15 14:28:23 2016 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 13:28:23 -0500 Subject: ADB in El Capitan Message-ID: <5cd8659d-10fe-c7e8-ade1-50c783e52dd9@hyperactivesw.com> I'm unable to directly connect any Android device to ADB. Apparently there are some issues with that in El Capitan and Apple has locked down some system folders (but my location for the SDK isn't one of those I saw listed.) Debugging is turned on for all devices I've tried. Is anyone able to get this working? I have the SDK installed in Macintosh HD/Developer/android-sdk-macosx/ Would moving it help? Testing is a real pain without an adb connection. LC finds the SDK and is able to build apps okay but not directly to the device. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From fraser.gordon at livecode.com Mon Aug 15 14:43:18 2016 From: fraser.gordon at livecode.com (Fraser Gordon) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 19:43:18 +0100 Subject: SSL Help In-Reply-To: <88EAEC0F-6C0E-4C60-94EA-D00709273FFA@clearvisiontech.com> References: <88EAEC0F-6C0E-4C60-94EA-D00709273FFA@clearvisiontech.com> Message-ID: <4c81ba55-9baf-971b-db2b-4bf9581535c1@livecode.com> On 15/08/16 18:32, Dan Friedman wrote: > Lastly, it works fine in LC 8 (but for a verity of reasons, I can't use LC 8) What is it that is causing you problems in LiveCode 8? Other than that, why not use a newer version of LiveCode 7? 7.0.1 is nearly 2 years old and there have been a huge number of bug fixes since. The last 7.0 is 7.0.6 (released in July 2015) and there is also the 7.1 series, of which 7.1.4 was released in May this year. To download these releases, please see https://downloads.livecode.com/ Fraser From dan at clearvisiontech.com Mon Aug 15 15:29:52 2016 From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 12:29:52 -0700 Subject: SSL Help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <896BBA1F-A195-4BCF-884C-F0AA4A0023AF@clearvisiontech.com> Fraser, Mainly, I can't ask thousands of people to reinstall my application at this time. Also, I can't take the risk of rolling out a *new* version of LC. I've done that in the past and it has cost me clients. With all new versions of LC, there are known bugs, and unknown bugs. You and I and everyone reading this can expect this in a new version. But my clients don't. Later versions are simply more stable. Period. Other than this issue, LC 7.0.1 is working well. Can you offer any support for this issue with 7.0.1? Or, do I just set libURLSetSSLVerification to false and hope for the best? Thank you for your time, -Dan > Lastly, it works fine in LC 8 (but for a verity of reasons, I can't use LC 8) > > > What is it that is causing you problems in LiveCode 8? > > Other than that, why not use a newer version of LiveCode 7? 7.0.1 is > nearly 2 years old and there have been a huge number of bug fixes since. > The last 7.0 is 7.0.6 (released in July 2015) and there is also the 7.1 > series, of which 7.1.4 was released in May this year. > > To download these releases, please see > https://downloads.livecode.com/ > > > Fraser From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Mon Aug 15 15:33:26 2016 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 15:33:26 -0400 Subject: blockchain Message-ID: Has anyone thought about implementing something similar to a blockchain in LC? I've been noggining this for a long time, but I haven't gotten far enough to talk about it. -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From lyn.teyla at gmail.com Mon Aug 15 15:44:42 2016 From: lyn.teyla at gmail.com (Lyn Teyla) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 21:44:42 +0200 Subject: SSL Help In-Reply-To: <88EAEC0F-6C0E-4C60-94EA-D00709273FFA@clearvisiontech.com> References: <88EAEC0F-6C0E-4C60-94EA-D00709273FFA@clearvisiontech.com> Message-ID: Dan Friedman wrote: > I purchased a SSL certificate and installed it and set it as the default. It is working fine in every browser I try. However, in LiveCode (7.0.1), it's getting the previous self-signed SSL certificate and failing with this error: It?s possible that you?re running into the SNI bug that?s been fixed since LiveCode 6.7.9-rc-1 and 7.1.2-rc-1. You can read more about the SNI bug at: http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16700 Lyn From lyn.teyla at gmail.com Mon Aug 15 15:49:46 2016 From: lyn.teyla at gmail.com (Lyn Teyla) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 21:49:46 +0200 Subject: SSL Help In-Reply-To: <896BBA1F-A195-4BCF-884C-F0AA4A0023AF@clearvisiontech.com> References: <896BBA1F-A195-4BCF-884C-F0AA4A0023AF@clearvisiontech.com> Message-ID: Dan Friedman wrote: > Other than this issue, LC 7.0.1 is working well. Can you offer any support for this issue with 7.0.1? Or, do I just set libURLSetSSLVerification to false and hope for the best? If you?d like to stay on LC 7.0.1, then to avoid the SNI bug, you?ll need to ensure that your domain is hosted on a dedicated IP, and that no other domain on that IP has an SSL certificate installed. Setting libURLSetSSLVerification to false is not recommended, as it increases the risk of man-in-the-middle attacks. Lyn From me at jerrydaniels.com Mon Aug 15 15:59:18 2016 From: me at jerrydaniels.com (me at jerrydaniels.com) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 14:59:18 -0500 Subject: blockchain In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <86fbd430-3623-4754-bd11-acd000dc2946@Spark> I've started building the road for Blockchain concept in LC, Mike. I've also been keenly interested in it. Best, Jerry On Aug 15, 2016, 2:48 PM -0500, Mike Kerner , wrote: > Has anyone thought about implementing something similar to a blockchain in > LC? I've been noggining this for a long time, but I haven't gotten far > enough to talk about it. > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Aug 15 16:16:49 2016 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 13:16:49 -0700 Subject: SSL Help In-Reply-To: <896BBA1F-A195-4BCF-884C-F0AA4A0023AF@clearvisiontech.com> References: <896BBA1F-A195-4BCF-884C-F0AA4A0023AF@clearvisiontech.com> Message-ID: Dan Friedman wrote: > Later versions are simply more stable. Period. Agreed, and I think that was Fraser's point. v8.0.2 has some 2000+ fixed and enhancements not found in v7.0.1. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Aug 15 16:19:28 2016 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 13:19:28 -0700 Subject: blockchain In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Mike Kerner wrote: > Has anyone thought about implementing something similar to a > blockchain in LC? I've been noggining this for a long time, > but I haven't gotten far enough to talk about it. What sort of application did you have in mind for this? And why blockchain specifically over other types of distributed storage? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From monte at appisle.net Mon Aug 15 16:22:57 2016 From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 06:22:57 +1000 Subject: ADB in El Capitan In-Reply-To: <5cd8659d-10fe-c7e8-ade1-50c783e52dd9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <5cd8659d-10fe-c7e8-ade1-50c783e52dd9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <8CF327E1-6A34-4031-8548-0361CC7EB305@appisle.net> Jacque, I?m not really sure if moving it will fix it (could be something else maybe) but I?m on El Capitan and I use the location recommended for building android from source which is ~/toolchain/android-sdk and it works fine. Cheers Monte > On 16 Aug 2016, at 4:28 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > > I'm unable to directly connect any Android device to ADB. Apparently there are some issues with that in El Capitan and Apple has locked down some system folders (but my location for the SDK isn't one of those I saw listed.) Debugging is turned on for all devices I've tried. Is anyone able to get this working? > > I have the SDK installed in Macintosh HD/Developer/android-sdk-macosx/ > > Would moving it help? Testing is a real pain without an adb connection. LC finds the SDK and is able to build apps okay but not directly to the device. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From monte at appisle.net Mon Aug 15 16:28:57 2016 From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 06:28:57 +1000 Subject: problem using mergDropbox under 8.1.0. dp 3 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <462B4912-390D-4469-A073-97294C0D1B54@appisle.net> Hmm? you haven?t somehow lost your custom URL from standalone settings have you? Failing that then yes please open a report. > On 15 Aug 2016, at 10:44 PM, Ben Rubinstein wrote: > > I was using mergDropbox in iOS 7, before LC acquired the suite. I believe that I also had it working under 8.0.x, before the advent of the inclusions tab in the standalone builder (but can't now be certain - I've decided to stay on the bleeding edge for anything later than 7, and recently purged all my intermediate 8 versions. I can check if it becomes relevant.). > > The same stack under 8.1.0 dp 3 is now failing to link to a dropbox folder. The call to mergDropboxSetup (in openStack) returns empty, as I'd hope; a call to mergDropboxIsLinked correctly returns false; however, a call afterwards to mergDropboxLink simply returns empty, where I'd expect it to throw up a Dropbox authorisation request. > > Subsequent calls to e.g. mergDropboxLoadMetadata not unreasonably throw errors of the form > mergDropboxLoadMetadataError: Error Domain=dropbox.com Code=400 "(null)" UserInfo={error_description=No auth function available for given request, path=/, error=invalid_request} > > Before I log this in the QCC, is there something straightforward that I need to do differently to make this work? > > Many thanks, > > Ben > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Aug 15 16:41:02 2016 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 15:41:02 -0500 Subject: ADB in El Capitan In-Reply-To: <8CF327E1-6A34-4031-8548-0361CC7EB305@appisle.net> References: <5cd8659d-10fe-c7e8-ade1-50c783e52dd9@hyperactivesw.com> <8CF327E1-6A34-4031-8548-0361CC7EB305@appisle.net> Message-ID: <2d36123f-c4bd-3151-cf42-6b80eb9d9526@hyperactivesw.com> I don't have a toolchain folder. But I can try moving it into my user account I guess. Without adb I have no logging, which is even worse than not having a direct install. Google searches say something about disabling El Capitan's SIP protection but I don't want to go that far. On 8/15/2016 3:22 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > Jacque, I?m not really sure if moving it will fix it (could be something else maybe) but I?m on El Capitan and I use the location recommended for building android from source which is ~/toolchain/android-sdk and it works fine. > > Cheers > > Monte >> On 16 Aug 2016, at 4:28 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote: >> >> I'm unable to directly connect any Android device to ADB. Apparently there are some issues with that in El Capitan and Apple has locked down some system folders (but my location for the SDK isn't one of those I saw listed.) Debugging is turned on for all devices I've tried. Is anyone able to get this working? >> >> I have the SDK installed in Macintosh HD/Developer/android-sdk-macosx/ >> >> Would moving it help? Testing is a real pain without an adb connection. LC finds the SDK and is able to build apps okay but not directly to the device. >> >> -- >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Mon Aug 15 17:18:47 2016 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 21:18:47 +0000 Subject: SSL Help In-Reply-To: <896BBA1F-A195-4BCF-884C-F0AA4A0023AF@clearvisiontech.com> References: <896BBA1F-A195-4BCF-884C-F0AA4A0023AF@clearvisiontech.com> Message-ID: <0ACA68AC-A9A6-4626-8445-E0DE9091DF32@iotecdigital.com> When Microsoft, and later Google decided to update their SSL/TLS to use the latest versions of both, we at the copier company I work for did not have the luxury of saying that we couldn't ask our customers to update the software on their copiers. We had to send technicians out and do it. When major libraries like OpenSSL are fundamentally changed, we as developers and service people are bound to fix it. You might consider bundling the fix into your next major release, but updating software to fix these kinds of issues is a normal and expected part of using software in this day and age. I might suggest that losing a customer because you ask them to do an update tells me you really didn't have that customer to begin with. Bob S On Aug 15, 2016, at 12:29 , Dan Friedman > wrote: Fraser, Mainly, I can't ask thousands of people to reinstall my application at this time. Also, I can't take the risk of rolling out a *new* version of LC. I've done that in the past and it has cost me clients. With all new versions of LC, there are known bugs, and unknown bugs. You and I and everyone reading this can expect this in a new version. But my clients don't. Later versions are simply more stable. Period. Other than this issue, LC 7.0.1 is working well. Can you offer any support for this issue with 7.0.1? Or, do I just set libURLSetSSLVerification to false and hope for the best? Thank you for your time, -Dan From scott at tactilemedia.com Mon Aug 15 17:26:39 2016 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 14:26:39 -0700 Subject: ADB in El Capitan In-Reply-To: <2d36123f-c4bd-3151-cf42-6b80eb9d9526@hyperactivesw.com> References: <5cd8659d-10fe-c7e8-ade1-50c783e52dd9@hyperactivesw.com> <8CF327E1-6A34-4031-8548-0361CC7EB305@appisle.net> <2d36123f-c4bd-3151-cf42-6b80eb9d9526@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <2F34E84F-29E7-4859-8F86-F13562AFFEB4@tactilemedia.com> Like you Jacque, I'm not positive location helps, but I have all my Android stuff installed in the Documents folder and it seems to work ok on El Capitan. I feel like I moved the files there a several versions back after repeated problems of getting LC to recognize the Android install location. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media UX/UI Design > On Aug 15, 2016, at 1:41 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > > I don't have a toolchain folder. But I can try moving it into my user account I guess. Without adb I have no logging, which is even worse than not having a direct install. > > Google searches say something about disabling El Capitan's SIP protection but I don't want to go that far. > > >> On 8/15/2016 3:22 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: >> Jacque, I?m not really sure if moving it will fix it (could be something else maybe) but I?m on El Capitan and I use the location recommended for building android from source which is ~/toolchain/android-sdk and it works fine. >> >> Cheers >> >> Monte >>> On 16 Aug 2016, at 4:28 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote: >>> >>> I'm unable to directly connect any Android device to ADB. Apparently there are some issues with that in El Capitan and Apple has locked down some system folders (but my location for the SDK isn't one of those I saw listed.) Debugging is turned on for all devices I've tried. Is anyone able to get this working? >>> >>> I have the SDK installed in Macintosh HD/Developer/android-sdk-macosx/ >>> >>> Would moving it help? Testing is a real pain without an adb connection. LC finds the SDK and is able to build apps okay but not directly to the device. >>> >>> -- >>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bonnmike at gmail.com Tue Aug 16 00:09:52 2016 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 22:09:52 -0600 Subject: encrypted buttons final answer Message-ID: Hey, I asked about generating encrypted paypal buttons a while back, have been busy since, but it does turn out to be relatively easy so I thought I'd share the method. put "item_name=" & field "item_name" into tEncrypt put cr & "amount=" & field "Amount" after tEncrypt put cr & "on1=" & "luretype" after tencrypt put cr & "os1=" & the text of field "luretype" after tEncrypt put cr & "lc=US" after tEncrypt put cr & "cert_id=yourcertidhere" after tEncrypt -- the id of the certificate uploaded to paypal. put cr & "currency_code=USD" after tEncrypt put cr & "no_shipping =2" after tEncrypt -- we are set up to use a defined shipping method (first item costs, all further items free shipping) put cr & "no_note=0" after tEncrypt put cr & "cn=Add special instructions to the seller:" after tEncrypt put cr & "add=1" after tEncrypt put cr & "business=paypalemail.here.com" after tEncrypt -- your paypal email put cr & "cmd=_cart" after tEncrypt put cr & "button_subtype=products" after tEncrypt put cr & "bn=PP-ShopCartBF:btn_cart_LG.gif:NonHosted" after tEncrypt Then, since i'm working on windows and things work slightly different, save the above to a file and execute the shell script.. put shell("c:\openssl-win32\bin\openssl smime -sign -signer my-pubcert.pem -inkey my-prvkey.pem -outform der -nodetach -binary [[field

[[field "item_name"]]

[[tOption]]

An lc script on the server reads the database and grabs the button code, popping it into a page. Once everything is working, we went into the paypal profile settings and changed things to only accept encrypted buttons, making it hard for anyone to mess with our non-hosted home built buttons. The only real issue I had is that on windows it seems annoyingly difficult to get openssh to see a config file, so there were "cannot locate /usr/blah/blah/openssh.cnf" (even after setting proper environment variables) I ended up filtering the 2 error messages out, the rest works like a charm. As an Off-Topic question... I'm horrid at web design (and am also restricted by my friends wishes of course) but.. Would anyone mind looking at the site and offering suggestions re: font sizes, layout, that sort of thing? (the "home" button in the upper right of sub pages seems a bit off to me, but thats the way they want it) Its been a REALLY long time since I've done much of this. (Oh, and tomorrow sometime the buttons will change how they open up the paypal cart page, but the look shouldn't change, and its the look and feel I could use input on) the site is http://thomascustomlures.com From peter.brett at livecode.com Tue Aug 16 02:54:45 2016 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 07:54:45 +0100 Subject: [ANN] lcb-mode v0.1.1: Emacs major mode for LCB source code Message-ID: Hi all, == Emacs lcb-mode 0.1.1 == lcb-mode is a major mode for Emacs that adds syntax highlighting and indentation for editing LiveCode Builder (.lcb) source files. == Installation 1. Add the MELPA community package repository: https://melpa.org/ 2. Do "M-x package-install lcb-mode" Please visit https://github.com/peter-b/lcb-mode for more details. == Notable changes in 0.1.1 * Full indentation support for LCB code, including: * good handling of continued lines * indentation for all core language block syntax * Syntax highlighting support: * all core language block syntax * some core language statements * string-based highlighting for user constants and variables * Installable from MELPA package repository == Reporting problems Please report issues to https://github.com/peter-b/lcb-mode/issues -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Technical Project Manager lcb-mode for Emacs: https://github.com/peter-b/lcb-mode From benr_mc at cogapp.com Tue Aug 16 05:48:57 2016 From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 10:48:57 +0100 Subject: plist (was Re: problem using mergDropbox under 8.1.0. dp 3) In-Reply-To: <462B4912-390D-4469-A073-97294C0D1B54@appisle.net> References: <462B4912-390D-4469-A073-97294C0D1B54@appisle.net> Message-ID: <3e74d8bb-bb68-1a33-4ca5-14c435e3d9d2@cogapp.com> Monte's nailed it as usual. POBKAC - no bug report to file... Thanks Monte! I have a vague memory that LC has introduced a way to make incremental changes to the plist, rather than just overriding the generated one completely - but I can't find any reference to this anywhere. Did I imagine it? Many thanks, Ben On 15/08/2016 21:28, Monte Goulding wrote: > Hmm? you haven?t somehow lost your custom URL from standalone settings have you? Failing that then yes please open a report. > >> On 15 Aug 2016, at 10:44 PM, Ben Rubinstein wrote: >> >> I was using mergDropbox in iOS 7, before LC acquired the suite. I believe that I also had it working under 8.0.x, before the advent of the inclusions tab in the standalone builder (but can't now be certain - I've decided to stay on the bleeding edge for anything later than 7, and recently purged all my intermediate 8 versions. I can check if it becomes relevant.). >> >> The same stack under 8.1.0 dp 3 is now failing to link to a dropbox folder. The call to mergDropboxSetup (in openStack) returns empty, as I'd hope; a call to mergDropboxIsLinked correctly returns false; however, a call afterwards to mergDropboxLink simply returns empty, where I'd expect it to throw up a Dropbox authorisation request. >> >> Subsequent calls to e.g. mergDropboxLoadMetadata not unreasonably throw errors of the form >> mergDropboxLoadMetadataError: Error Domain=dropbox.com Code=400 "(null)" UserInfo={error_description=No auth function available for given request, path=/, error=invalid_request} >> >> Before I log this in the QCC, is there something straightforward that I need to do differently to make this work? >> >> Many thanks, >> >> Ben From monte at appisle.net Tue Aug 16 06:01:34 2016 From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 20:01:34 +1000 Subject: plist (was Re: problem using mergDropbox under 8.1.0. dp 3) In-Reply-To: <3e74d8bb-bb68-1a33-4ca5-14c435e3d9d2@cogapp.com> References: <462B4912-390D-4469-A073-97294C0D1B54@appisle.net> <3e74d8bb-bb68-1a33-4ca5-14c435e3d9d2@cogapp.com> Message-ID: <82832E17-C0AB-4F90-8AD3-C57918CDACE2@appisle.net> > On 16 Aug 2016, at 7:48 PM, Ben Rubinstein wrote: > > I have a vague memory that LC has introduced a way to make incremental changes to the plist, rather than just overriding the generated one completely - but I can't find any reference to this anywhere. Did I imagine it? You did? we have something a bit like that for entitlements now. It would be nice to do it for plists and manifests also though. Cheers Monte From heather at livecode.com Tue Aug 16 06:33:45 2016 From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 11:33:45 +0100 Subject: [blog] Flipbit in LiveCode Message-ID: Folks, a new blog post just went up on rather a cool LC project: https://livecode.com/how-livecode-enables-flipbit-technology-and-our-kickstarter-project/ Enjoy! Heather Heather Laine Customer Services Manager LiveCode Ltd www.livecode.com From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Tue Aug 16 08:46:49 2016 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 08:46:49 -0400 Subject: [ANN] lcb-mode v0.1.1: Emacs major mode for LCB source code In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: For those of us who haven't used emacs in a couple of decades, what is the difference between it and Atom, these days? On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 2:54 AM, Peter TB Brett wrote: > Hi all, > > == Emacs lcb-mode 0.1.1 == > > lcb-mode is a major mode for Emacs that adds syntax highlighting and > indentation for editing LiveCode Builder (.lcb) source files. > > == Installation > > 1. Add the MELPA community package repository: https://melpa.org/ > 2. Do "M-x package-install lcb-mode" > > Please visit https://github.com/peter-b/lcb-mode for more details. > > == Notable changes in 0.1.1 > > * Full indentation support for LCB code, including: > * good handling of continued lines > * indentation for all core language block syntax > * Syntax highlighting support: > * all core language block syntax > * some core language statements > * string-based highlighting for user constants and variables > * Installable from MELPA package repository > > == Reporting problems > > Please report issues to https://github.com/peter-b/lcb-mode/issues > > -- > Dr Peter Brett > LiveCode Technical Project Manager > > lcb-mode for Emacs: https://github.com/peter-b/lcb-mode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Tue Aug 16 08:58:12 2016 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 08:58:12 -0400 Subject: blockchain In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Jerry, I'm interested, so please share, off list or on. Richard, think Delta Airlines outage. Blockchains don't just give you distributed storage, they give you distributed trust. Being cheap, I turned dropbox, and google spreadsheets, and Box, and a couple of other services into online data repositories, i.e. crude DBMS's, because I can do it on the cheap. But what if one or all of those go down? What if my pipe goes down? If I have my mobiles on the same network, and a blockchain, maybe I don't even need a central server. If I have a blockchain, maybe a cell phone that is on my network can be communicating with the outside world when the wifi or wired-only devices can't. On Mon, Aug 15, 2016 at 4:19 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Mike Kerner wrote: > > > Has anyone thought about implementing something similar to a > > blockchain in LC? I've been noggining this for a long time, > > but I haven't gotten far enough to talk about it. > > What sort of application did you have in mind for this? And why > blockchain specifically over other types of distributed storage? > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From ambassador at fourthworld.com Tue Aug 16 09:44:08 2016 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 06:44:08 -0700 Subject: [ANN] lcb-mode v0.1.1: Emacs major mode for LCB source code In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <45b2bc0e-1ae1-73f7-85a5-8ae040500b6f@fourthworld.com> Peter TB Brett wrote: > == Emacs lcb-mode 0.1.1 == > > lcb-mode is a major mode for Emacs that adds syntax highlighting and > indentation for editing LiveCode Builder (.lcb) source files. > > == Installation > > 1. Add the MELPA community package repository: https://melpa.org/ > 2. Do "M-x package-install lcb-mode" > > Please visit https://github.com/peter-b/lcb-mode for more details. > > == Notable changes in 0.1.1 > > * Full indentation support for LCB code, including: > * good handling of continued lines > * indentation for all core language block syntax > * Syntax highlighting support: > * all core language block syntax > * some core language statements > * string-based highlighting for user constants and variables > * Installable from MELPA package repository > > == Reporting problems > > Please report issues to https://github.com/peter-b/lcb-mode/issues Cool stuff. Reminds me: does the emacsKeyBindings global property still work in LC? Anyone here have an idea what it would take to add a vimKeyBindings? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From me at jerrydaniels.com Tue Aug 16 10:01:15 2016 From: me at jerrydaniels.com (me at jerrydaniels.com) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 09:01:15 -0500 Subject: blockchain In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <681c958c-1521-43f2-8472-bd6a42adde2e@Spark> Mike, follow the project via email signup here: http://botz.live I'll be coming up for air in a few days and able to discuss more with you then. Best, Jerry On Aug 16, 2016, 7:59 AM -0500, Mike Kerner , wrote: > Jerry, I'm interested, so please share, off list or on. > Richard, think Delta Airlines outage. Blockchains don't just give you > distributed storage, they give you distributed trust. Being cheap, I > turned dropbox, and google spreadsheets, and Box, and a couple of other > services into online data repositories, i.e. crude DBMS's, because I can do > it on the cheap. But what if one or all of those go down? What if my pipe > goes down? If I have my mobiles on the same network, and a blockchain, > maybe I don't even need a central server. If I have a blockchain, maybe a > cell phone that is on my network can be communicating with the outside > world when the wifi or wired-only devices can't. > > On Mon, Aug 15, 2016 at 4:19 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > > Mike Kerner wrote: > > > > > Has anyone thought about implementing something similar to a > > > blockchain in LC? I've been noggining this for a long time, > > > but I haven't gotten far enough to talk about it. > > > > What sort of application did you have in mind for this? And why > > blockchain specifically over other types of distributed storage? > > > > -- > > Richard Gaskin > > Fourth World Systems > > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From peter.brett at livecode.com Tue Aug 16 10:12:52 2016 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 15:12:52 +0100 Subject: [ANN] lcb-mode v0.1.1: Emacs major mode for LCB source code In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 16/08/2016 13:46, Mike Kerner wrote: > For those of us who haven't used emacs in a couple of decades, what is the > difference between it and Atom, these days? (This e-mail discusses running Emacs on Linux. The last time I checked, Emacs on Mac OS was a bit flaky.) - Emacs has _really good_ editing modes for almost every text-based file format and programming language under the sun. I've used it for programming in C, C++, Java, Scheme, ANSI Lisp, Elisp, Bash, Python, R, JavaScript, Rust, MATLAB/Octave, LiveCode Builder, several variants of assembly, PostScript, Make, VHDL, Verilog, IDL, LaTeX, M4, Awk, Perl, and probably some other languages that I've forgotten about. In generally, if it's text-based, I can usually open it in Emacs and just get on with it [1]. - Emacs has a large memory footprint, but Atom uses HUGE amounts of memory. The same goes for CPU usage. On one of my older computers, Atom is really very sluggish, but Emacs remains nice and responsive. - Integration with stuff. Emacs has lots of really nice extensions! I can do version control with git, compile programs and analyse the logs, run a debugger, send e-mail, and even chat on IRC from inside Emacs. Of course the main reason I use Emacs is that its keybindings and other features are now programmed into my brain. ;-) Peter [1] There are some exceptions, such as gentle, the compiler-specific language that much of lc-compile is written in. -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Technical Project Manager lcb-mode for Emacs: https://github.com/peter-b/lcb-mode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Tue Aug 16 10:20:28 2016 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 07:20:28 -0700 Subject: blockchain In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0222f721-b28b-3f21-0feb-1fe296cb2b0a@fourthworld.com> Mike Kerner wrote: > Richard, think Delta Airlines outage. If you hire IT staff that doesn't set up failover or practice disaster recovery, I'm not sure that's a technology problem. :) > Blockchains don't just give you distributed storage, they give you > distributed trust. Being cheap, I turned dropbox, and google > spreadsheets, and Box, and a couple of other services into online > data repositories, i.e. crude DBMS's, because I can do it on the > cheap. But what if one or all of those go down? What if my pipe > goes down? I'm at the edge of completely ignorant about blockchains so forgive me if this question is naive, but if blockchains are a distributed system how can they counter loss of connectivity? > If I have my mobiles on the same network, and a blockchain, maybe I > don't even need a central server. If I have a blockchain, maybe a > cell phone that is on my network can be communicating with the outside > world when the wifi or wired-only devices can't. Don't most carriers allow Internet data over cell networks these days? The connectivity method would seem independent of the distributed storage system, no? The security aspect is indeed interesting. Looking at how banks are increasingly exploring blockchains for document storage is inspiring for many practical applications beyond Bitcoin. What libraries are you wrapping? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Tue Aug 16 11:19:05 2016 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 08:19:05 -0700 Subject: reposting for Heather: corrupted stack Message-ID: <5ecca750-a9b4-0162-6122-22d8feb79501@ahsoftware.net> Cool. I have another corrupted stack (my second since the 8.x release). I'll send this off to the team, but just wanted to post the fact here. It's a bit of a weird thing: the stack is in 2.4 format, and works fine there. But it segfaults in LC8 on both linux and osx. And I removed the scripts, so it's just a stack with a button. Exception Type: EXC_BAD_ACCESS (SIGSEGV) Exception Codes: KERN_INVALID_ADDRESS at 0x0000000000000034 Exception Note: EXC_CORPSE_NOTIFY Whee! -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From livfoss at mac.com Tue Aug 16 11:20:07 2016 From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 17:20:07 +0200 Subject: [ANN] lcb-mode v0.1.1: Emacs major mode for LCB source code In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1CFBC119-4B98-47DB-B838-AF1821942A16@mac.com> Peter Although I thought I'd learned enough at the LC conference about LCB to start making widgets, your mail seems to suggest a whole world I have no idea about. Emacs? MELPA? Can you put this in some kind of context for us LC coders? Even github is unknown territory to me. TIA Graham Sent from my iPhone > On 16 Aug 2016, at 08:54, Peter TB Brett wrote: > > Hi all, > > == Emacs lcb-mode 0.1.1 == > > lcb-mode is a major mode for Emacs that adds syntax highlighting and indentation for editing LiveCode Builder (.lcb) source files. > > == Installation > > 1. Add the MELPA community package repository: https://melpa.org/ > 2. Do "M-x package-install lcb-mode" > > Please visit https://github.com/peter-b/lcb-mode for more details. > > == Notable changes in 0.1.1 > > * Full indentation support for LCB code, including: > * good handling of continued lines > * indentation for all core language block syntax > * Syntax highlighting support: > * all core language block syntax > * some core language statements > * string-based highlighting for user constants and variables > * Installable from MELPA package repository > > == Reporting problems > > Please report issues to https://github.com/peter-b/lcb-mode/issues > > -- > Dr Peter Brett > LiveCode Technical Project Manager > > lcb-mode for Emacs: https://github.com/peter-b/lcb-mode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From me at jerrydaniels.com Tue Aug 16 11:29:39 2016 From: me at jerrydaniels.com (me at jerrydaniels.com) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 10:29:39 -0500 Subject: Icon/SVGs resource Message-ID: <86a8f7fa-b09a-452c-b866-8eb665855234@Spark> Here's what I use: https://icons8.com Great collections for all devices/OS's Modern stuff (flat or not) Colorization before DL Great newsletter Great blog As a web page OR a Mac/Windows App. Pay OR free Best, jerry at botz.live From peter.brett at livecode.com Tue Aug 16 11:33:04 2016 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 16:33:04 +0100 Subject: [ANN] lcb-mode v0.1.1: Emacs major mode for LCB source code In-Reply-To: <1CFBC119-4B98-47DB-B838-AF1821942A16@mac.com> References: <1CFBC119-4B98-47DB-B838-AF1821942A16@mac.com> Message-ID: <6d487069-353c-34d9-2c10-baba28bc47e2@livecode.com> On 16/08/2016 16:20, Graham Samuel wrote: > Although I thought I'd learned enough at the LC conference about LCB > to start making widgets, your mail seems to suggest a whole world I > have no idea about. Emacs? MELPA? Can you put this in some kind of > context for us LC coders? Even github is unknown territory to me. Emacs: A classic and very highly-extensible text editor that's been around since the 1980s. Beloved of developers working on Linux and other Unix-like operating systems. MELPA: An archive of community-created extensions for Emacs. I have created an extension for Emacs to help people who like using Emacs to use it for working on LiveCode Builder files. I have added it to MELPA so that it is easy to install. If you're happy with using Atom, you don't need to worry about it! Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Technical Project Manager lcb-mode for Emacs: https://github.com/peter-b/lcb-mode From warren at warrensweb.us Tue Aug 16 11:52:26 2016 From: warren at warrensweb.us (Warren Samples) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 10:52:26 -0500 Subject: [ANN] lcb-mode v0.1.1: Emacs major mode for LCB source code In-Reply-To: <45b2bc0e-1ae1-73f7-85a5-8ae040500b6f@fourthworld.com> References: <45b2bc0e-1ae1-73f7-85a5-8ae040500b6f@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <3f646543-420a-cb7b-39e7-592de64c9cb0@warrensweb.us> On 08/16/2016 08:44 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Peter TB Brett wrote: >> Emacs > > vim > Whooboy! Fun time's a startin'! From peter.brett at livecode.com Tue Aug 16 12:04:55 2016 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 17:04:55 +0100 Subject: [ANN] lcb-mode v0.1.1: Emacs major mode for LCB source code In-Reply-To: <3f646543-420a-cb7b-39e7-592de64c9cb0@warrensweb.us> References: <45b2bc0e-1ae1-73f7-85a5-8ae040500b6f@fourthworld.com> <3f646543-420a-cb7b-39e7-592de64c9cb0@warrensweb.us> Message-ID: On 16/08/2016 16:52, Warren Samples wrote: > On 08/16/2016 08:44 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> Peter TB Brett wrote: >>> Emacs >> >> vim >> > > Whooboy! Fun time's a startin'! 'S'all kickin' off around here! Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Technical Project Manager lcb-mode for Emacs: https://github.com/peter-b/lcb-mode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Aug 16 12:36:01 2016 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 16:36:01 +0000 Subject: Icon/SVGs resource In-Reply-To: <86a8f7fa-b09a-452c-b866-8eb665855234@Spark> References: <86a8f7fa-b09a-452c-b866-8eb665855234@Spark> Message-ID: <6D568FAC-63B0-4874-99C5-E00B558D46C0@iotecdigital.com> Hey! Nite to hear from Jerry again. :-) Bob S > On Aug 16, 2016, at 08:29 , me at jerrydaniels.com wrote: > > Here's what I use: https://icons8.com > > Great collections for all devices/OS's > Modern stuff (flat or not) > Colorization before DL > Great newsletter > Great blog > > As a web page OR a Mac/Windows App. > > Pay OR free > > Best, jerry at botz.live > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Aug 16 12:36:23 2016 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 16:36:23 +0000 Subject: Icon/SVGs resource In-Reply-To: <6D568FAC-63B0-4874-99C5-E00B558D46C0@iotecdigital.com> References: <86a8f7fa-b09a-452c-b866-8eb665855234@Spark> <6D568FAC-63B0-4874-99C5-E00B558D46C0@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <98493C63-BDFD-4DB9-9A56-3677B2D06691@iotecdigital.com> Nice even. Bob S > On Aug 16, 2016, at 09:36 , Bob Sneidar wrote: > > Hey! Nite to hear from Jerry again. :-) > > Bob S > > From dochawk at gmail.com Tue Aug 16 12:44:56 2016 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 09:44:56 -0700 Subject: [ANN] lcb-mode v0.1.1: Emacs major mode for LCB source code In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 7:12 AM, Peter TB Brett wrote: > but Emacs remains nice and responsive. Wow. In over 30 years, that's the first time I've heard *anyone *say that. :) -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Tue Aug 16 12:48:34 2016 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 19:48:34 +0300 Subject: Icon/SVGs resource In-Reply-To: <86a8f7fa-b09a-452c-b866-8eb665855234@Spark> References: <86a8f7fa-b09a-452c-b866-8eb665855234@Spark> Message-ID: That's a fantastic resource. Thanks 1000 times. Richmond. On 16.08.2016 18:29, me at jerrydaniels.com wrote: > Here's what I use: https://icons8.com > > Great collections for all devices/OS's > Modern stuff (flat or not) > Colorization before DL > Great newsletter > Great blog > > As a web page OR a Mac/Windows App. > > Pay OR free > > Best, jerry at botz.live > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From me at jerrydaniels.com Tue Aug 16 13:37:52 2016 From: me at jerrydaniels.com (me at jerrydaniels.com) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 12:37:52 -0500 Subject: Icon/SVGs resource In-Reply-To: References: <86a8f7fa-b09a-452c-b866-8eb665855234@Spark> Message-ID: Richmond, Bob...my pleasure! Best, jerry at botz.live On Aug 16, 2016, 11:48 AM -0500, Richmond , wrote: > That's a fantastic resource. > > Thanks 1000 times. > > Richmond. > > > On 16.08.2016 18:29, me at jerrydaniels.com wrote: > > Here's what I use: https://icons8.com > > > > Great collections for all devices/OS's > > Modern stuff (flat or not) > > Colorization before DL > > Great newsletter > > Great blog > > > > As a web page OR a Mac/Windows App. > > > > Pay OR free > > > > Best, jerry at botz.live > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dave at applicationinsight.com Tue Aug 16 13:47:02 2016 From: dave at applicationinsight.com (Dave Kilroy) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 18:47:02 +0100 Subject: Ideas for LiveCode workshops - help needed In-Reply-To: <999435DE-46E5-42B7-B31D-BC1EF368277B@applicationinsight.com> References: <999435DE-46E5-42B7-B31D-BC1EF368277B@applicationinsight.com> Message-ID: Thank you all for your ideas, questions and suggestions First of all, as regards who will be coming to the workshop - basically I?ll take anyone with a pulse (might even take the undead?). Therefore I have to cater for a wide range of capabilities. Maybe in the future when I have more of an established audience/group here I can do stuff more tailored to what they need but as of now I need to cater for as wide an audience as possible (hence my email to the usegroup) That said, from other workshops I?ve done here I think I?ll have two main types - those who are completely new to coding and those who are proficient in other languages and want to give LiveCode a whirl? It sounds like between us all LiveCoders we have a long list of training we would like to receive ourselves, if I have time I?ll set up a Facebook survey thingy to see what the most popular workshop topics might be - and from there we could see what ways we would have to addressing that need. So as to my workshop on September 17th, I think I?m gravitating towards the fun ?scribbling-on-photos-of-your-friends? app idea - I know how to do a basic version of scribbling on mobile and if others were to donate more advanced graphic-effect snippets (I?m looking at you John) that would be lovely to keep my more advanced participants happy Kind regards Dave PS: Come to Plymouth on September 17th for a fun day with LiveCode! http://www.meetup.com/The-THINQTANQ-Events-Meetups-and-More-in-Plymouth/events/226749341/ PPS: the ?10 charge goes to the venue and not to me... > Ditto what Graham said: > > We semi-proficient coders hit the wall when we create a scrolling group on desktop and then transfer to our iPhone and it doesn't scroll or set a simple player to a URL for an mp3 on web server and discover that you need a to create a mobile player. What if you have content (a little puzzle game) that really should only be viewed/locked down in landscape? and this is on card 3 of a stack that is otherwise portrait? on desktop it?s a 4-line-of-code simple resize trick. "Wow Livecode is so cool" newbie feels proud they figured that out. Not so on mobile. For the level of workshop you are targeting perhaps (my guess) this would probably be an "advanced track" .. these are the things that someone Javascript person watching over your shoulder says "really, why don't you do this all in HTML 5?" because it like its soooo hard (in livecode) and the html5 world has thousands of answers?" [I'm not buying it yet. I've seen some of these html5 apps with their snake pit of libraries and dependencies and 5 times the lines of code in the end and the endless javascript debugging of what doesn't-quite-work-right yet? until the code becomes so opaque that even the developer himself can hardly read it 6 months later. Give me LC any day? but some things are stil too hard in LC.] > > And, yes: iOS provisioning, Android developer ID et al: a dark grey mountain of mystery that needs sunlight for the newbie. after a year.. I *think* have iOS pretty much figured? but still putting off building for android locally. Challenge is, non-professionals are no doing this day-in-day-out so we really depend on thorough documentation and examples, that is missing in manby cases or out of date (Livecode lessons are pretty good for some things, but not all) > > So your work shop can include supplementary material on "where to find what you need to know; disclaimer, everything you need to know may or many not be there." > > BR > > >> Graham Samuel" <[hidden email] on behalf of [hidden email] > wrote: >> >> so I?d like to see a workshop that creates a trivial app (say a variation on the clock/stopwatch theme - but it could be anything), discusses the differences (if any) needed in the code for different platforms, and which is then actually installed on all the available platforms, indicating all the pitfalls of deploying on iOS, Android, Mac, Windows, Linux - what installer software to use, getting stuff approved/certificated etc. and including a jargon-buster for the deployment end of things ("what?s device provisioning?" for example). >> >>> On 4 Aug 2016, at 23:50, Dave Kilroy wrote: >>> >>> Thank you all for your ideas and suggestions! >>> >>> I?m summarising them as follows: >>> A drag and drop matching game. >>> A to-do list app. >>> A simple e-reader app. >>> A walking tour app with a map that you can click for additional information and photos. >>> An app that helps with web research (grab text and images, write notes & emails, filter and ordering). >>> A client-server user registration system. >>> A bare bones personal cloud type thing with clients for every platform. >>> Go through all past conferences and look at the different track subject matter. >>> Try to solicit other to be presenters. >>> Focus on UI/UX - everything must look 2016 rather than 1995 >>> >>> I?ve also remembered a suggestion I once got from a teacher for a workshop topic "A humorous photo editor (draw moustaches etc on photos of your friends)" >>> >>> >>> MESSAGING APP >>> >>> @rjd318 this is a link to a thread on the forum from a year ago covering the workshop where we did the messaging app (including an introductory video and download link to get the stack and .lc script) http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=24465 . Since then I ran another version of this workshop in a different environment and I added some more polish to the app - let me know if what I did was of interest and I?ll dig out the newer version for you. >>> >>> Got any more ideas? Keep ?em coming! >>> >>> Kind regards >>> >>> Dave >>> >>> >>> >>>> On 4 Aug 2016, at 09:54, Dave Kilroy > wrote: >>>> >>>> This is a request for ideas for LiveCode workshops >>>> >>>> That is, where one of us is organising a day-long workshop on LiveCode and are looking for a main topic for the day. >>>> >>>> I?m not looking for fully-worked up teaching resources (although that would be nice), but general ideas or topics for the workshop - so that we can say to people, and publicise ?come to this LiveCode workshop where we will build ?? or ?at this LiveCode workshop you will learn how to ??. >>>> >>>> In the past I?ve done LiveCode workshops where the main idea has been: >>>> - build a mobile messaging app (that connects to a web service and mysql database) >>>> - build desktop widgets (little things like an app that watches a folder, using the clipboard etc) >>>> - learn how to search documents and save notes with LiveCode >>>> >>>> I think my ideal would be to get an idea which is: >>>> - a ?draw? (afterall I want lots of people to turn up!), something like ?learn now to connect to the Pokemon Go! API? >>>> - doesn?t involve me doing too too much preparation work for the workshop >>>> - can give a positive experience to participants with differing levels of ability (perhaps by my preparing some partly completed exercises for those who need them) >>>> >>>> So, ideas and suggestions please! >>>> >>>> Kind regards >>>> >>>> Dave >>>> >>>> PS: my next workshop is on 17th September and I haven?t decided what to go in it http://www.meetup.com/The-THINQTANQ-Events-Meetups-and-More-in-Plymouth/events/226749341/ >>>> PPS: ask potential participants what the workshop topic should be usually doesn?t help much! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Tue Aug 16 14:33:00 2016 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 14:33:00 -0400 Subject: [on-rev] Diesel Is Down In-Reply-To: References: <999435DE-46E5-42B7-B31D-BC1EF368277B@applicationinsight.com> Message-ID: <005601d1f7ec$9e79f3f0$db6ddbd0$@net> Anyone else having diesel problems? I notified David with emergency support request. I hope it's not just me.... I'll look like a bone-head. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Tue Aug 16 14:43:03 2016 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 20:43:03 +0200 Subject: [on-rev] Diesel Is Down In-Reply-To: <005601d1f7ec$9e79f3f0$db6ddbd0$@net> References: <999435DE-46E5-42B7-B31D-BC1EF368277B@applicationinsight.com> <005601d1f7ec$9e79f3f0$db6ddbd0$@net> Message-ID: Just checked a domain of my customer. Diesel is up and running. Is your site is still not available. If so, do you have a dedicated ip or is your site using Diesesl?s ip? The site of my customer is Not using a dedicated ip. Regards, Matthias > Am 16.08.2016 um 20:33 schrieb Ralph DiMola : > > Anyone else having diesel problems? I notified David with emergency support request. I hope it's not just me.... I'll look like a bone-head. > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From revdev at pdslabs.net Tue Aug 16 14:47:19 2016 From: revdev at pdslabs.net (Phil Davis) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 11:47:19 -0700 Subject: [on-rev] Diesel Is Down In-Reply-To: <005601d1f7ec$9e79f3f0$db6ddbd0$@net> References: <999435DE-46E5-42B7-B31D-BC1EF368277B@applicationinsight.com> <005601d1f7ec$9e79f3f0$db6ddbd0$@net> Message-ID: You're not alone, Ralph! When I try to login via ssh, I get this: Could not resolve hostname : nodename nor servname provided, or not known When I try to load a page in Chrome, it says the "server DNS address could not be found". So this time you're not a bonehead. :-) Or else we both are. Phil Davis On 8/16/16 11:33 AM, Ralph DiMola wrote: > Anyone else having diesel problems? I notified David with emergency support request. I hope it's not just me.... I'll look like a bone-head. > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Phil Davis From jerry at jhjensen.com Tue Aug 16 14:53:00 2016 From: jerry at jhjensen.com (Jerry Jensen) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 11:53:00 -0700 Subject: [on-rev] Diesel Is Down In-Reply-To: References: <999435DE-46E5-42B7-B31D-BC1EF368277B@applicationinsight.com> <005601d1f7ec$9e79f3f0$db6ddbd0$@net> Message-ID: <4EB16BF1-5B20-40FB-8F67-3E0FE0F7433C@jhjensen.com> Diesel is OK for me. CPanel and sites work. No fixed IP#. Very generic setup. .Jerry > On Aug 16, 2016, at 11:47 AM, Phil Davis wrote: > > You're not alone, Ralph! > > When I try to login via ssh, I get this: > Could not resolve hostname : nodename nor servname provided, or not known > > When I try to load a page in Chrome, it says the "server DNS address could not be found". > > So this time you're not a bonehead. :-) Or else we both are. > > Phil Davis > > > > On 8/16/16 11:33 AM, Ralph DiMola wrote: >> Anyone else having diesel problems? I notified David with emergency support request. I hope it's not just me.... I'll look like a bone-head. >> >> Ralph DiMola >> IT Director >> Evergreen Information Services >> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > -- > Phil Davis > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Tue Aug 16 14:58:27 2016 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 14:58:27 -0400 Subject: [on-rev] Diesel Is Down In-Reply-To: <4EB16BF1-5B20-40FB-8F67-3E0FE0F7433C@jhjensen.com> References: <999435DE-46E5-42B7-B31D-BC1EF368277B@applicationinsight.com> <005601d1f7ec$9e79f3f0$db6ddbd0$@net> <4EB16BF1-5B20-40FB-8F67-3E0FE0F7433C@jhjensen.com> Message-ID: <005701d1f7f0$2ca3a970$85eafc50$@net> Seems to be back up. I was getting intermittent pings and even the on-rev status page was hanging while retrieving server status. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Jensen Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 2:53 PM To: How to use LiveCode Subject: Re: [on-rev] Diesel Is Down Diesel is OK for me. CPanel and sites work. No fixed IP#. Very generic setup. .Jerry > On Aug 16, 2016, at 11:47 AM, Phil Davis wrote: > > You're not alone, Ralph! > > When I try to login via ssh, I get this: > Could not resolve hostname : nodename nor servname provided, or not known > > When I try to load a page in Chrome, it says the "server DNS address could not be found". > > So this time you're not a bonehead. :-) Or else we both are. > > Phil Davis > > > > On 8/16/16 11:33 AM, Ralph DiMola wrote: >> Anyone else having diesel problems? I notified David with emergency support request. I hope it's not just me.... I'll look like a bone-head. >> >> Ralph DiMola >> IT Director >> Evergreen Information Services >> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > -- > Phil Davis > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jeff at siphonophore.com Tue Aug 16 15:07:57 2016 From: jeff at siphonophore.com (Jeff Reynolds) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 15:07:57 -0400 Subject: using windows playback via livecode 8 Message-ID: Hi, I was wondering if anyone has had good luck playing back HD quality video on a MS Surface book using livecode 8 and the new windows playback system that uses the direct show libraries. A client wants to be able to playback full screen HD videos on the surface from a presentation interface that is normally used to control a dedicated video server. I have done this for years on macbook pros to the external and laptop video and low res videos on desktop screens with windows but always using quicktime in the past. Now with win 10 I assume that should not be done even if we could get an old qt installed. They wanted ipad but the bundling and such necessary of all the assets which need updating now and then was way too much work for what was needed. If we can just play the windows version from the Surface like we do with the macbook pro then it should be a pretty simple modification. The surface book specs look like its decent graphics to do this, but always a bit of a guess if this stuff will play well on hardware until tested. years back when I had to do this on the mac, the apple store manager let me actually bring in a monitor and also run my software from a flash drive to test if the macbook pros at the time could do it! luckily it did. Not sure MS store will let me do this but going to give it a whirl. Thanks jeff From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Tue Aug 16 16:09:31 2016 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 15:09:31 -0500 Subject: using windows playback via livecode 8 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yesterday I got a tech support question from a Surface Pro 3 user. Our LC standalone (built in LC 7.1.4) wouldn't even launch. I suspect it's because the Surface is running in 64-bit. Does your Surface run with LC 8? On 8/16/2016 2:07 PM, Jeff Reynolds wrote: > Hi, > > I was wondering if anyone has had good luck playing back HD quality > video on a MS Surface book using livecode 8 and the new windows > playback system that uses the direct show libraries. > > A client wants to be able to playback full screen HD videos on the > surface from a presentation interface that is normally used to > control a dedicated video server. I have done this for years on > macbook pros to the external and laptop video and low res videos on > desktop screens with windows but always using quicktime in the past. > Now with win 10 I assume that should not be done even if we could get > an old qt installed. > > They wanted ipad but the bundling and such necessary of all the > assets which need updating now and then was way too much work for > what was needed. If we can just play the windows version from the > Surface like we do with the macbook pro then it should be a pretty > simple modification. > > The surface book specs look like its decent graphics to do this, but > always a bit of a guess if this stuff will play well on hardware > until tested. years back when I had to do this on the mac, the apple > store manager let me actually bring in a monitor and also run my > software from a flash drive to test if the macbook pros at the time > could do it! luckily it did. Not sure MS store will let me do this > but going to give it a whirl. > > Thanks > > jeff _______________________________________________ use-livecode > mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to > subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Tue Aug 16 16:44:32 2016 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 16:44:32 -0400 Subject: blockchain In-Reply-To: <0222f721-b28b-3f21-0feb-1fe296cb2b0a@fourthworld.com> References: <0222f721-b28b-3f21-0feb-1fe296cb2b0a@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: This isn't about connectivity. This is about surviving a catastrophic failure at a central authoritative data source, by eliminating the need for a central data source. Blockchains are not used to distribute data. Blockchains are, in effect, streams of timestamped checksums. Embedded in them are all the other timestamped checksums for the chain. Therefore, blockchains enable you to determine who has the most current data (or, who has the most recent copy of some piece of it). On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 10:20 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Mike Kerner wrote: > > > Richard, think Delta Airlines outage. > > If you hire IT staff that doesn't set up failover or practice disaster > recovery, I'm not sure that's a technology problem. :) > > > Blockchains don't just give you distributed storage, they give you > > distributed trust. Being cheap, I turned dropbox, and google > > spreadsheets, and Box, and a couple of other services into online > > data repositories, i.e. crude DBMS's, because I can do it on the > > cheap. But what if one or all of those go down? What if my pipe > > goes down? > > I'm at the edge of completely ignorant about blockchains so forgive me if > this question is naive, but if blockchains are a distributed system how can > they counter loss of connectivity? > > > If I have my mobiles on the same network, and a blockchain, maybe I > > don't even need a central server. If I have a blockchain, maybe a > > cell phone that is on my network can be communicating with the outside > > world when the wifi or wired-only devices can't. > > Don't most carriers allow Internet data over cell networks these days? The > connectivity method would seem independent of the distributed storage > system, no? > > The security aspect is indeed interesting. Looking at how banks are > increasingly exploring blockchains for document storage is inspiring for > many practical applications beyond Bitcoin. > > What libraries are you wrapping? > > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From benr_mc at cogapp.com Tue Aug 16 16:51:39 2016 From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 21:51:39 +0100 Subject: Icon/SVGs resource In-Reply-To: References: <86a8f7fa-b09a-452c-b866-8eb665855234@Spark> Message-ID: Wow, it really is! NB that to use the icons free there must be a link back to the site. On 16/08/2016 17:48, Richmond wrote: > That's a fantastic resource. > > Thanks 1000 times. > > Richmond. > > > On 16.08.2016 18:29, me at jerrydaniels.com wrote: >> Here's what I use: https://icons8.com >> >> Great collections for all devices/OS's >> Modern stuff (flat or not) >> Colorization before DL >> Great newsletter >> Great blog >> >> As a web page OR a Mac/Windows App. >> >> Pay OR free >> >> Best, jerry at botz.live From benr_mc at cogapp.com Tue Aug 16 17:08:47 2016 From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 22:08:47 +0100 Subject: [ ANN ] Release 8.1.0 DP-3 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9f043294-8f95-c9a8-1a83-fe6daa67042a@cogapp.com> On 30/07/2016 09:38, Monte Goulding wrote: > At the moment we don?t have a facility for turning tsNet off in the event you want to use libURL (not really sure why you would want that but I guess it?s possible). You can turn tsNet off if you want to with `dispatch ?revUnloadLibrary" to stack ?tsNetLibURL?` Hi Monte, Is there any way in dp3 to step back a bit further, and include libURL in a standalone without including tsNet? I've hit a problem on certain operating systems (or it may be just on certain machines) which is a complete blocker for me. It might be fixed quickly (I've only just reported it in QCC); and right now I could probably step back to dp-2. But it might not be fixed quickly; and something else might turn up; and libURL has worked well for well over a decade so it would be nice to have the option to continue to use it, at least until tsNet is well bedded down. Ben From me at jerrydaniels.com Tue Aug 16 17:43:50 2016 From: me at jerrydaniels.com (me at jerrydaniels.com) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 16:43:50 -0500 Subject: blockchain In-Reply-To: References: <0222f721-b28b-3f21-0feb-1fe296cb2b0a@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <71c79cc3-a386-4750-8d95-a21fa826b027@Spark> Mike, the issues you are bringing are vital ones actually, not the least bit frivolous. Blockchain is like LiveCode's executionContexts property on a global scale. "Trust, but verify, Mr. Gorbachev." Blockchain is distributed trust, which is real (not corporate) trust. That said, I'd have to ask you to file away Ethereum's failures as as off-model and anomalous. Best, jerry at botz.live On Aug 16, 2016, 3:45 PM -0500, Mike Kerner , wrote: > This isn't about connectivity. This is about surviving a catastrophic > failure at a central authoritative data source, by eliminating the need for > a central data source. Blockchains are not used to distribute data. > Blockchains are, in effect, streams of timestamped checksums. Embedded in > them are all the other timestamped checksums for the chain. Therefore, > blockchains enable you to determine who has the most current data (or, who > has the most recent copy of some piece of it). > > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 10:20 AM, Richard Gaskin > wrote: > > > Mike Kerner wrote: > > > > > Richard, think Delta Airlines outage. > > > > If you hire IT staff that doesn't set up failover or practice disaster > > recovery, I'm not sure that's a technology problem. :) > > > > > Blockchains don't just give you distributed storage, they give you > > > distributed trust. Being cheap, I turned dropbox, and google > > > spreadsheets, and Box, and a couple of other services into online > > > data repositories, i.e. crude DBMS's, because I can do it on the > > > cheap. But what if one or all of those go down? What if my pipe > > > goes down? > > > > I'm at the edge of completely ignorant about blockchains so forgive me if > > this question is naive, but if blockchains are a distributed system how can > > they counter loss of connectivity? > > > > > If I have my mobiles on the same network, and a blockchain, maybe I > > > don't even need a central server. If I have a blockchain, maybe a > > > cell phone that is on my network can be communicating with the outside > > > world when the wifi or wired-only devices can't. > > > > Don't most carriers allow Internet data over cell networks these days? The > > connectivity method would seem independent of the distributed storage > > system, no? > > > > The security aspect is indeed interesting. Looking at how banks are > > increasingly exploring blockchains for document storage is inspiring for > > many practical applications beyond Bitcoin. > > > > What libraries are you wrapping? > > > > > > -- > > Richard Gaskin > > Fourth World Systems > > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From revdev at pdslabs.net Tue Aug 16 18:37:29 2016 From: revdev at pdslabs.net (Phil Davis) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 15:37:29 -0700 Subject: Win standalone question Message-ID: <2324b5fc-efb8-cc11-a6d0-b494f8295913@pdslabs.net> Hi everyone, In a Windows standalone, how do you retrieve its standalone version info (the info you entered when building the standalone)? Here is what my code looks like right now. As you can see, it currently returns empty for a Win standalone: function appLongVersion switch the platform case "MacOS" if the environment = "development" then return the cRevStandaloneSettings["OSX,longVersion"] of me else -- it's a standalone -- extract info from the plist file set the itemDel to slash put item 1 to -3 of the filename of me & "/Info.plist" into tPath put url ("file:" & tPath) into tPlist replace tab with empty in tPlist replace ("" & CR & "") with ("") in tPlist -- put each key/string pair on same line filter tPlist with "*CFBundleLongVersionString*" -- the key name we need delete char 1 to offset("",tPlist)+8 of tPlist -- start line with the string content set the itemDel to "<" return item 1 of tPlist end if break case "Win32" if the environment = "development" then return the cRevStandaloneSettings["Windows,longVersion"] of me else -- it's a standalone return empty -- ??? end if break end switch end appLongVersion Thanks - Phil Davis -- Phil Davis From ambassador at fourthworld.com Tue Aug 16 18:44:28 2016 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 15:44:28 -0700 Subject: Win standalone question In-Reply-To: <2324b5fc-efb8-cc11-a6d0-b494f8295913@pdslabs.net> References: <2324b5fc-efb8-cc11-a6d0-b494f8295913@pdslabs.net> Message-ID: LC's standalone settings are removed at build time. Not sure why, as they contain useful info like versions numbers. I use a custom prop in my mainstack for version and build numbers, with a setProp handler that updates the SB settings in sync with it when it changes. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Phil Davis wrote: > In a Windows standalone, how do you retrieve its standalone version info > (the info you entered when building the standalone)? > > Here is what my code looks like right now. As you can see, it currently > returns empty for a Win standalone: > > > > function appLongVersion > switch the platform > case "MacOS" > if the environment = "development" > then return the cRevStandaloneSettings["OSX,longVersion"] of me > else -- it's a standalone > -- extract info from the plist file > set the itemDel to slash > put item 1 to -3 of the filename of me & "/Info.plist" > into tPath > put url ("file:" & tPath) into tPlist > replace tab with empty in tPlist > replace ("" & CR & "") with > ("") in tPlist -- put each key/string pair on same line > filter tPlist with "*CFBundleLongVersionString*" -- the > key name we need > delete char 1 to offset("",tPlist)+8 of tPlist > -- start line with the string content > set the itemDel to "<" > return item 1 of tPlist > end if > break > case "Win32" > if the environment = "development" > then return the > cRevStandaloneSettings["Windows,longVersion"] of me > else -- it's a standalone > return empty -- ??? > end if > break > end switch > end appLongVersion From alex at tweedly.org Tue Aug 16 19:09:11 2016 From: alex at tweedly.org (Alex Tweedly) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 00:09:11 +0100 Subject: [ANN] lcb-mode v0.1.1: Emacs major mode for LCB source code In-Reply-To: <45b2bc0e-1ae1-73f7-85a5-8ae040500b6f@fourthworld.com> References: <45b2bc0e-1ae1-73f7-85a5-8ae040500b6f@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <3e635b15-8eb8-a02a-591a-f663e96f0307@tweedly.org> On 16/08/2016 14:44, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > Anyone here have an idea what it would take to add a vimKeyBindings? > A brief attack of insanity. (as in - if you already have Emacs, you'd be insane to waste time on any other editor or binding .... :-) -- Alex. OK, OK, I promise not to start "editor wars". From revdev at pdslabs.net Tue Aug 16 19:12:24 2016 From: revdev at pdslabs.net (Phil Davis) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2016 16:12:24 -0700 Subject: Win standalone question In-Reply-To: References: <2324b5fc-efb8-cc11-a6d0-b494f8295913@pdslabs.net> Message-ID: <9d94bba4-4eaf-69e2-e3c5-00899ae42f6e@pdslabs.net> Good idea Richard. Ultimately I may need to do something like that. Phil On 8/16/16 3:44 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > LC's standalone settings are removed at build time. Not sure why, as > they contain useful info like versions numbers. > > I use a custom prop in my mainstack for version and build numbers, > with a setProp handler that updates the SB settings in sync with it > when it changes. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > > Phil Davis wrote: > >> In a Windows standalone, how do you retrieve its standalone version info >> (the info you entered when building the standalone)? >> >> Here is what my code looks like right now. As you can see, it currently >> returns empty for a Win standalone: >> >> >> >> function appLongVersion >> switch the platform >> case "MacOS" >> if the environment = "development" >> then return the >> cRevStandaloneSettings["OSX,longVersion"] of me >> else -- it's a standalone >> -- extract info from the plist file >> set the itemDel to slash >> put item 1 to -3 of the filename of me & "/Info.plist" >> into tPath >> put url ("file:" & tPath) into tPlist >> replace tab with empty in tPlist >> replace ("" & CR & "") with >> ("") in tPlist -- put each key/string pair on same line >> filter tPlist with "*CFBundleLongVersionString*" -- the >> key name we need >> delete char 1 to offset("",tPlist)+8 of tPlist >> -- start line with the string content >> set the itemDel to "<" >> return item 1 of tPlist >> end if >> break >> case "Win32" >> if the environment = "development" >> then return the >> cRevStandaloneSettings["Windows,longVersion"] of me >> else -- it's a standalone >> return empty -- ??? >> end if >> break >> end switch >> end appLongVersion > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Phil Davis From monte at appisle.net Tue Aug 16 19:54:04 2016 From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 09:54:04 +1000 Subject: [ ANN ] Release 8.1.0 DP-3 In-Reply-To: <9f043294-8f95-c9a8-1a83-fe6daa67042a@cogapp.com> References: <9f043294-8f95-c9a8-1a83-fe6daa67042a@cogapp.com> Message-ID: > On 17 Aug 2016, at 7:08 AM, Ben Rubinstein wrote: > Is there any way in dp3 to step back a bit further, and include libURL in a standalone without including tsNet? At the moment (and perhaps this will be the long term recommendation rather than any preferences) for projects that don?t want to use tsNet you can do the following in your main stack initialisation handler (preOpenStack etc): if the environment is ?development? and there is a stack ?tsNetLibURL" then dispatch ?revUnloadLibrary? to stack ?tsNetLibURL? end if That will cause tsNet to unload itself as the libURL driver and as a standalone dependency for libURL. Cheers Monte From benr_mc at cogapp.com Wed Aug 17 03:51:42 2016 From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 08:51:42 +0100 Subject: [ ANN ] Release 8.1.0 DP-3 In-Reply-To: References: <9f043294-8f95-c9a8-1a83-fe6daa67042a@cogapp.com> Message-ID: Thanks Monte. Is there a way in the build process to include the libURL stack, but not include the tsNet external? Ben On 17/08/2016 00:54, Monte Goulding wrote: > >> On 17 Aug 2016, at 7:08 AM, Ben Rubinstein wrote: >> Is there any way in dp3 to step back a bit further, and include libURL in a standalone without including tsNet? > > At the moment (and perhaps this will be the long term recommendation rather than any preferences) for projects that don?t want to use tsNet you can do the following in your main stack initialisation handler (preOpenStack etc): > > if the environment is ?development? and there is a stack ?tsNetLibURL" then > dispatch ?revUnloadLibrary? to stack ?tsNetLibURL? > end if > > That will cause tsNet to unload itself as the libURL driver and as a standalone dependency for libURL. > > Cheers > > Monte From charles at techstrategies.com.au Wed Aug 17 03:59:42 2016 From: charles at techstrategies.com.au (Charles Warwick) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 17:59:42 +1000 Subject: [ ANN ] Release 8.1.0 DP-3 In-Reply-To: References: <9f043294-8f95-c9a8-1a83-fe6daa67042a@cogapp.com> Message-ID: <61312114-a6f2-02c4-0937-6d60bcd6c81e@techstrategies.com.au> Hi Ben, That's exactly what calling that dispatch command will do, if it is executed in the IDE before you build the standalone. If the tsNetLibURL stack is unloaded, tsNet will not be included in any standalone builds that use libURL unless tsNet is selected specifically as an inclusion. Regards, Charles On 17/08/2016 5:51 pm, Ben Rubinstein wrote: > Thanks Monte. > > Is there a way in the build process to include the libURL stack, but > not include the tsNet external? > > Ben > > On 17/08/2016 00:54, Monte Goulding wrote: >> >>> On 17 Aug 2016, at 7:08 AM, Ben Rubinstein wrote: >>> Is there any way in dp3 to step back a bit further, and include >>> libURL in a standalone without including tsNet? >> >> At the moment (and perhaps this will be the long term recommendation >> rather than any preferences) for projects that don?t want to use >> tsNet you can do the following in your main stack initialisation >> handler (preOpenStack etc): >> >> if the environment is ?development? and there is a stack >> ?tsNetLibURL" then >> dispatch ?revUnloadLibrary? to stack ?tsNetLibURL? >> end if >> >> That will cause tsNet to unload itself as the libURL driver and as a >> standalone dependency for libURL. >> >> Cheers >> >> Monte > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com Wed Aug 17 04:36:50 2016 From: stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com (stephen barncard) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 01:36:50 -0700 Subject: using windows playback via livecode 8 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 12:07 PM, Jeff Reynolds wrote: > just play the windows version from the Surface like we do with the macbook > pro then it should be a pretty simple modification. > FYI the 2007 Macbook Pro can run Yosemite AND El Cap today. The DVD drives all fail and the batteries die but the machines soldier on with third party replacements. I've got one here I hot-rodded with a SSD. All the ports you need and a nice DVI port that with a cheap HDMI adapter can drive a huge display. How much does a surface cost? Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA - mixstream.org From fraser.gordon at livecode.com Wed Aug 17 04:43:23 2016 From: fraser.gordon at livecode.com (Fraser Gordon) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 09:43:23 +0100 Subject: using windows playback via livecode 8 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 16 Aug 2016, at 21:09, J. Landman Gay wrote: > Yesterday I got a tech support question from a Surface Pro 3 user. Our LC standalone (built in LC 7.1.4) wouldn't even launch. I suspect it's because the Surface is running in 64-bit. The Windows build of LiveCode is 32-bit but that doesn?t mean it won?t run on 64-bit Windows. You?ve got to go out of your way to find a 32-bit version of Windows these days if you?re running Windows 7, 8, 8.1 or 10 so if you?re testing on any of those, it is most likely a 64-bit version. As such, most of our development and testing on Windows is done on 64-bit versions. If you have any information about the problem, please submit it to our bug database. Thanks, Fraser From benr_mc at cogapp.com Wed Aug 17 05:06:29 2016 From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 10:06:29 +0100 Subject: [ ANN ] Release 8.1.0 DP-3 In-Reply-To: <61312114-a6f2-02c4-0937-6d60bcd6c81e@techstrategies.com.au> References: <9f043294-8f95-c9a8-1a83-fe6daa67042a@cogapp.com> <61312114-a6f2-02c4-0937-6d60bcd6c81e@techstrategies.com.au> Message-ID: <5475cc8a-ab88-3b4c-3549-36efd30a5cb0@cogapp.com> Ah thanks Charles, I'd misunderstood - that's just what I needed. cheers, Ben On 17/08/2016 08:59, Charles Warwick wrote: > Hi Ben, > > That's exactly what calling that dispatch command will do, if it is executed > in the IDE before you build the standalone. > > If the tsNetLibURL stack is unloaded, tsNet will not be included in any > standalone builds that use libURL unless tsNet is selected specifically as an > inclusion. > > Regards, > > Charles > > > On 17/08/2016 5:51 pm, Ben Rubinstein wrote: >> Thanks Monte. >> >> Is there a way in the build process to include the libURL stack, but not >> include the tsNet external? >> >> Ben >> >> On 17/08/2016 00:54, Monte Goulding wrote: >>> >>>> On 17 Aug 2016, at 7:08 AM, Ben Rubinstein wrote: >>>> Is there any way in dp3 to step back a bit further, and include libURL in >>>> a standalone without including tsNet? >>> >>> At the moment (and perhaps this will be the long term recommendation rather >>> than any preferences) for projects that don?t want to use tsNet you can do >>> the following in your main stack initialisation handler (preOpenStack etc): >>> >>> if the environment is ?development? and there is a stack ?tsNetLibURL" >>> then >>> dispatch ?revUnloadLibrary? to stack ?tsNetLibURL? >>> end if >>> >>> That will cause tsNet to unload itself as the libURL driver and as a >>> standalone dependency for libURL. >>> >>> Cheers >>> >>> Monte >> From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Aug 17 11:17:49 2016 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 08:17:49 -0700 Subject: blockchain In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <76fb927f-c29e-e7a1-b504-09afa10b2662@fourthworld.com> Mike Kerner wrote: > Richard Gaskin wrote: >> Mike Kerner wrote: >> > If I have my mobiles on the same network, and a blockchain, maybe I >> > don't even need a central server. If I have a blockchain, maybe a >> > cell phone that is on my network can be communicating with the >> > outside world when the wifi or wired-only devices can't. >> >> Don't most carriers allow Internet data over cell networks these >> days? The connectivity method would seem independent of the >> distributed storage system, no? > > This isn't about connectivity. Perhaps not, which is why I asked about your reference to cellular connectivity. I've not built blockchain systems and I'm not at all shy about admitting a nearly complete ignorance about them, so I ask questions to learn. Regarding connectivity/distribution, if all parts of blockchain document/element are kept on a single local machine, what would be the benefit? In my naive view, I had thought the main benefit was to allow trusted sharing, which would imply connectivity/distribution. If that's not the case I'm unable to understand your earlier mention of cell networks. > This is about surviving a catastrophic failure at a central > authoritative data source, by eliminating the need for a central > data source. Given our industry's long history of failover best practices (Delta Airlines notwithstanding), how do blockchains improve on existing failover options? > Blockchains are not used to distribute data. Blockchains are, in > effect, streams of timestamped checksums. Embedded in them are > all the other timestamped checksums for the chain. Therefore, > blockchains enable you to determine who has the most current data > (or, who has the most recent copy of some piece of it). That seems a good summary, but one challenging for my currently ignorant self in that it seems again to imply an inherently distributed nature to system. I've had a tough time finding good primers on blockchains. Like IPFS, the discussions I've found so far have been either too high-level to really explain much about the use cases or implementation, or too low-level to be graspable for the newcomer. Is there a blockchain primer you'd recommend? For us LiveCoders, maybe it would be helpful to learn what sorts of tasks you're using blockchains for, and which libraries you're wrapping to make that happen. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Aug 17 11:29:46 2016 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 10:29:46 -0500 Subject: using windows playback via livecode 8 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <156991f6210.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> On August 17, 2016 3:44:27 AM Fraser Gordon wrote: > > On 16 Aug 2016, at 21:09, J. Landman Gay wrote: > >> Yesterday I got a tech support question from a Surface Pro 3 user. Our LC >> standalone (built in LC 7.1.4) wouldn't even launch. I suspect it's because >> the Surface is running in 64-bit. > > The Windows build of LiveCode is 32-bit but that doesn?t mean it won?t run > on 64-bit Windows. You?ve got to go out of your way to find a 32-bit > version of Windows these days if you?re running Windows 7, 8, 8.1 or 10 so > if you?re testing on any of those, it is most likely a 64-bit version. As > such, most of our development and testing on Windows is done on 64-bit > versions. I know that's the usual behavior of Windows but a quick Google search seemed to indicate that there's no automatic fallback on the Surface. Apparently you can download either a 32 bit or a 64 bit OS, with the default shipping version being 64. There's apparently some system setting to run in 32 bit mode but it affects the whole machine. I only did a quick search but that seems to be the gist of it. One question I found was whether the Surface could be set to run in 32 bit mode for only a single app and the answer was no. There may some other way to get around it, or perhaps the user had her system settings configured in an unusual way. Or maybe I misunderstood what I was reading. That's certainly possible. Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From mark at canelasoftware.com Wed Aug 17 14:02:05 2016 From: mark at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 11:02:05 -0700 Subject: using windows playback via livecode 8 In-Reply-To: <156991f6210.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <156991f6210.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <14E6CE98-9852-46E9-9538-3E04EE960D23@canelasoftware.com> > On Aug 17, 2016, at 8:29 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > > > On August 17, 2016 3:44:27 AM Fraser Gordon wrote: > >> >> On 16 Aug 2016, at 21:09, J. Landman Gay wrote: >> >>> Yesterday I got a tech support question from a Surface Pro 3 user. Our LC standalone (built in LC 7.1.4) wouldn't even launch. I suspect it's because the Surface is running in 64-bit. >> >> The Windows build of LiveCode is 32-bit but that doesn?t mean it won?t run on 64-bit Windows. You?ve got to go out of your way to find a 32-bit version of Windows these days if you?re running Windows 7, 8, 8.1 or 10 so if you?re testing on any of those, it is most likely a 64-bit version. As such, most of our development and testing on Windows is done on 64-bit versions. > > I know that's the usual behavior of Windows but a quick Google search seemed to indicate that there's no automatic fallback on the Surface. Apparently you can download either a 32 bit or a 64 bit OS, with the default shipping version being 64. There's apparently some system setting to run in 32 bit mode but it affects the whole machine. > > I only did a quick search but that seems to be the gist of it. One question I found was whether the Surface could be set to run in 32 bit mode for only a single app and the answer was no. > > There may some other way to get around it, or perhaps the user had her system settings configured in an unusual way. Or maybe I misunderstood what I was reading. That's certainly possible. FWIW, we have 2 Surface Pro 3 units here. We run LC 6 - LC 8 apps on them just fine. We have a number of school districts that have adopted them based on our suggestions and they are running our apps well. Everyone is using them as they come from Microsoft without modification to compatibility modes and such. Hope this helps...a little bit at least. Best regards, Mark Talluto livecloud.io canelasoftware.com From benr_mc at cogapp.com Wed Aug 17 13:52:33 2016 From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 18:52:33 +0100 Subject: Garbage collection (crashing on Windows) Message-ID: <58904964-04d1-62de-6ffb-c6fd464eb974@cogapp.com> Please refresh my memory: is there any way to cause/allow garbage to be collected without ending all script running? I have an app which process large amounts of data. It runs fine on Mac, but on Windows intermittently (but not frequently as the application data source, which fluctuates, is gradually increasing) as the total memory in use approaches 2GB, the app faults. Obviously this is very distressing for me and my client, because the app has lost control at this point and can't even tell us what's happening (it normally runs on a schedule on a VM, so it often takes days to discover that the system downstream hasn't been updated for a while, and trace back to find that the LC app is halted). I have managed to reduce the incidence of this by breaking the processing into two parts, but this is undesirable for various reasons, and only palliative. What I really want is a way for my main function to invoke garbage collection after calling some of the larger processing steps. Is there any way to do this? Am I right in thinking that the issue is related to LC's total memory usage reaching 2GB on Windows? Are there any useful functions (e.g. the "hasMemory" function is documented as "only partially implemented, and may not return useful values on some platforms", which makes it seem pretty pointless...)? TIA, Ben From dochawk at gmail.com Wed Aug 17 14:08:38 2016 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 11:08:38 -0700 Subject: [ANN] lcb-mode v0.1.1: Emacs major mode for LCB source code In-Reply-To: <3e635b15-8eb8-a02a-591a-f663e96f0307@tweedly.org> References: <45b2bc0e-1ae1-73f7-85a5-8ae040500b6f@fourthworld.com> <3e635b15-8eb8-a02a-591a-f663e96f0307@tweedly.org> Message-ID: On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 4:09 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote: > On 16/08/2016 14:44, Richard Gaskin wrote: > >> >> Anyone here have an idea what it would take to add a vimKeyBindings? >> >> A brief attack of insanity. > > (as in - if you already have Emacs, you'd be insane to waste time on any > other editor or binding .... :-) Why? Do the emacs bindings work in vi mode? :) -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From dochawk at gmail.com Wed Aug 17 14:09:21 2016 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 11:09:21 -0700 Subject: [ANN] lcb-mode v0.1.1: Emacs major mode for LCB source code In-Reply-To: References: <45b2bc0e-1ae1-73f7-85a5-8ae040500b6f@fourthworld.com> <3e635b15-8eb8-a02a-591a-f663e96f0307@tweedly.org> Message-ID: On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 11:08 AM, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > > > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 4:09 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote: > >> On 16/08/2016 14:44, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> >>> >>> Anyone here have an idea what it would take to add a vimKeyBindings? >>> >>> A brief attack of insanity. >> >> (as in - if you already have Emacs, you'd be insane to waste time on any >> other editor or binding .... :-) > > > Why? Do the emacs bindings work in vi mode? > > :) > For the record, having used both extensively over the years, I've never needed medical attention from using vi . . . -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Aug 17 14:12:12 2016 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 13:12:12 -0500 Subject: using windows playback via livecode 8 In-Reply-To: <14E6CE98-9852-46E9-9538-3E04EE960D23@canelasoftware.com> References: <156991f6210.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> <14E6CE98-9852-46E9-9538-3E04EE960D23@canelasoftware.com> Message-ID: <650ea296-70ab-d9fa-313c-ae85d36f5c18@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/17/2016 1:02 PM, Mark Talluto wrote: > FWIW, we have 2 Surface Pro 3 units here. We run LC 6 - LC 8 apps on > them just fine. We have a number of school districts that have > adopted them based on our suggestions and they are running our apps > well. Everyone is using them as they come from Microsoft without > modification to compatibility modes and such. Hope this helps...a > little bit at least. Yes, it does, thanks very much. The user said someone "set up the system" for her and she didn't want to change the settings. Maybe that was the problem, if there's some setting that forbids fallback to 32-bit. I have no idea what they changed, and she was a very naive user who couldn't answer any questions. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Wed Aug 17 14:33:48 2016 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (mwieder) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 11:33:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ANN] lcb-mode v0.1.1: Emacs major mode for LCB source code In-Reply-To: References: <45b2bc0e-1ae1-73f7-85a5-8ae040500b6f@fourthworld.com> <3e635b15-8eb8-a02a-591a-f663e96f0307@tweedly.org> Message-ID: <1471458828016-4707564.post@n4.nabble.com> Right... that would be an IV... ----- -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/ANN-lcb-mode-v0-1-1-Emacs-major-mode-for-LCB-source-code-tp4707514p4707564.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Aug 17 15:17:19 2016 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 22:17:19 +0300 Subject: Love Gifts Message-ID: http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=27479&p=145574#p145574 Five alternative Livecode icons in full sets in .png, .ico & .icns formats. Love, Richmond. From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Wed Aug 17 16:29:11 2016 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 16:29:11 -0400 Subject: blockchain In-Reply-To: <76fb927f-c29e-e7a1-b504-09afa10b2662@fourthworld.com> References: <76fb927f-c29e-e7a1-b504-09afa10b2662@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Jerry, I completely agree. It's a tool, not a solution to all of the world's problems. Richard, The primers that were the most helpful to me are ones that are hidden behind paywalls (but understanding Merkle trees might also help). The easiest scenario to describe is a warehouse. Mobiles are in the hands of all personnel, because LC is sweet and who wouldn't want a customer walking out jealous that they don't have something similar? Because of electrical noise, dead spots, etc., wireless connectivity is not 100%. The owner does not want to replace an aging desktop that is also acting as a server for this setup, and wants the IT department writing more sweet mobile apps, not maintaining infrastructure. Solve. On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 11:17 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Mike Kerner wrote: > > > Richard Gaskin wrote: > >> Mike Kerner wrote: > >> > If I have my mobiles on the same network, and a blockchain, maybe I > >> > don't even need a central server. If I have a blockchain, maybe a > >> > cell phone that is on my network can be communicating with the > >> > outside world when the wifi or wired-only devices can't. > >> > >> Don't most carriers allow Internet data over cell networks these > >> days? The connectivity method would seem independent of the > >> distributed storage system, no? > > > > This isn't about connectivity. > > Perhaps not, which is why I asked about your reference to cellular > connectivity. > > I've not built blockchain systems and I'm not at all shy about admitting a > nearly complete ignorance about them, so I ask questions to learn. > > Regarding connectivity/distribution, if all parts of blockchain > document/element are kept on a single local machine, what would be the > benefit? > > In my naive view, I had thought the main benefit was to allow trusted > sharing, which would imply connectivity/distribution. > > If that's not the case I'm unable to understand your earlier mention of > cell networks. > > > > This is about surviving a catastrophic failure at a central > > authoritative data source, by eliminating the need for a central > > data source. > > Given our industry's long history of failover best practices (Delta > Airlines notwithstanding), how do blockchains improve on existing failover > options? > > > > Blockchains are not used to distribute data. Blockchains are, in > > effect, streams of timestamped checksums. Embedded in them are > > all the other timestamped checksums for the chain. Therefore, > > blockchains enable you to determine who has the most current data > > (or, who has the most recent copy of some piece of it). > > That seems a good summary, but one challenging for my currently ignorant > self in that it seems again to imply an inherently distributed nature to > system. > > I've had a tough time finding good primers on blockchains. Like IPFS, the > discussions I've found so far have been either too high-level to really > explain much about the use cases or implementation, or too low-level to be > graspable for the newcomer. > > Is there a blockchain primer you'd recommend? > > For us LiveCoders, maybe it would be helpful to learn what sorts of tasks > you're using blockchains for, and which libraries you're wrapping to make > that happen. > > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Aug 17 17:31:49 2016 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 16:31:49 -0500 Subject: ADB in El Capitan In-Reply-To: <2F34E84F-29E7-4859-8F86-F13562AFFEB4@tactilemedia.com> References: <5cd8659d-10fe-c7e8-ade1-50c783e52dd9@hyperactivesw.com> <8CF327E1-6A34-4031-8548-0361CC7EB305@appisle.net> <2d36123f-c4bd-3151-cf42-6b80eb9d9526@hyperactivesw.com> <2F34E84F-29E7-4859-8F86-F13562AFFEB4@tactilemedia.com> Message-ID: <11cbd3a3-6e7d-0e3b-496e-225b486cc963@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/15/2016 4:26 PM, Scott Rossi wrote: > Like you Jacque, I'm not positive location helps, but I have all my > Android stuff installed in the Documents folder and it seems to work > ok on El Capitan. I feel like I moved the files there a several > versions back after repeated problems of getting LC to recognize the > Android install location. Just for anyone who's following this, it turns out the problem was very low-level basic. The USB port blew out, which I didn't detect until I needed to plug in something else. It's always something. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Aug 17 17:48:03 2016 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 14:48:03 -0700 Subject: blockchain In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Mike Kerner wrote: > Richard, > The primers that were the most helpful to me are ones that are hidden > behind paywalls (but understanding Merkle trees might also help). Good tip - thanks. > The easiest scenario to describe is a warehouse. Mobiles are in the > hands of all personnel, because LC is sweet and who wouldn't want a > customer walking out jealous that they don't have something similar? > Because of electrical noise, dead spots, etc., wireless connectivity > is not 100%. The owner does not want to replace an aging desktop > that is also acting as a server for this setup, and wants the IT > department writing more sweet mobile apps, not maintaining > infrastructure. Solve. No solution system can be designed because the most important information is missing from the problem definition: What is the task we want to support the users doing on their phone? And if blockchains are unrelated to connectivity, why is connectivity the central issue of this problem statement? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Wed Aug 17 17:54:58 2016 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 17:54:58 -0400 Subject: blockchain In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Connectivity isn't central, it's simply a failure mode that gives us an extra wrinkle. Ignore connectivity, and just focus on getting rid of the server, if you like. Or, design a decentralized diamond registry. On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 5:48 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Mike Kerner wrote: > > > Richard, > > The primers that were the most helpful to me are ones that are hidden > > behind paywalls (but understanding Merkle trees might also help). > > Good tip - thanks. > > > The easiest scenario to describe is a warehouse. Mobiles are in the > > hands of all personnel, because LC is sweet and who wouldn't want a > > customer walking out jealous that they don't have something similar? > > Because of electrical noise, dead spots, etc., wireless connectivity > > is not 100%. The owner does not want to replace an aging desktop > > that is also acting as a server for this setup, and wants the IT > > department writing more sweet mobile apps, not maintaining > > infrastructure. Solve. > > No solution system can be designed because the most important information > is missing from the problem definition: What is the task we want to > support the users doing on their phone? > > And if blockchains are unrelated to connectivity, why is connectivity the > central issue of this problem statement? > > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From zryip.theslug at gmail.com Wed Aug 17 17:56:28 2016 From: zryip.theslug at gmail.com (zryip theSlug) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 23:56:28 +0200 Subject: [ANN] Excel Library 1.4.0 - New Conditional Highlighting commands and more Message-ID: Dear LiveCode and Excel Users, The Excel Library 1.4 Commercial Version is released! In this version we have: 1. 4 new commands and 2 functions. - XCEL_FormatCondition_Count: Counts the number of format conditions attached to a range. - XCEL_FormatCondition_New: Creates a new format condition linked to a range. - XCEL_FormatCondition_Delete: Deletes a format condition. - XCEL_FormatCondition_Property_Set: Sets one of the format condition properties. - XCEL_Application_Path_Set (Macintosh only) Allows the possibility to define the full path of the MS Excel application to control. Useful if several versions of MS Excel are installed on the computer. - XCEL_Range_HyperLink_Address_Get: Returns the address of the first hyperlink attached to the specified cell. 2. Some changes: - The Excel VB or AS codes is no longer compressed in the custom properties for avoiding a cross platform problem. - A description for the XCEL_Range_Rect_Get function has been added in the documentation. - In the documentation we have now a new "Parameters" button. This button allows to set the path of the MS Excel application to use with the documentation. (Macintosh) 3. And fixes: - Quotes in formulas could cause the XCEL_Range_Formula_Set command was not working properly on windows, with no error returned in 'the result'. - Quotes could cause errors with the XCEL_Range_Values_Get function (Macintosh) For more informations about this Library you can visit our website: http://www.aslugontheroad.com/ourproducts/14-excel-library-for-livecode The Excel Lib Commercial Version is also available in the LiveCode Store: https://livecode.com/products/thirdparty/aslugontheroad/excel-library-1-3-3/ Best Regards, -- Zryip TheSlug http://www.aslugontheroad.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Aug 17 18:11:14 2016 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 15:11:14 -0700 Subject: blockchain In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Mike Kerner wrote: > Connectivity isn't central, it's simply a failure mode that gives us > an extra wrinkle. Ignore connectivity, and just focus on getting rid > of the server, if you like. Or, design a decentralized diamond > registry. What is the business benefit for this application to go P2P rather than client-server? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From me at jerrydaniels.com Wed Aug 17 18:29:35 2016 From: me at jerrydaniels.com (me at jerrydaniels.com) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 17:29:35 -0500 Subject: blockchain In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Mike, I used the BitTorrent model to do my decentralization but I also put an optional local network relay station to cover mobile's inability to listen and to handle those circumstances where everyone's device was turned off. My reasoning was: I wanted the data to be as local and as live as possible. I wanted no data in any centralized place. Also, no http or ftp. With that model, encryption and a private transport protocol, trust is between individuals and listening is safe/unexploitable. On Aug 17, 2016, 4:57 PM -0500, Mike Kerner , wrote: > Connectivity isn't central, it's simply a failure mode that gives us an > extra wrinkle. Ignore connectivity, and just focus on getting rid of the > server, if you like. Or, design a decentralized diamond registry. > > On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 5:48 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > > Mike Kerner wrote: > > > > > Richard, > > > The primers that were the most helpful to me are ones that are hidden > > > behind paywalls (but understanding Merkle trees might also help). > > > > Good tip - thanks. > > > > > The easiest scenario to describe is a warehouse. Mobiles are in the > > > hands of all personnel, because LC is sweet and who wouldn't want a > > > customer walking out jealous that they don't have something similar? > > > Because of electrical noise, dead spots, etc., wireless connectivity > > > is not 100%. The owner does not want to replace an aging desktop > > > that is also acting as a server for this setup, and wants the IT > > > department writing more sweet mobile apps, not maintaining > > > infrastructure. Solve. > > > > No solution system can be designed because the most important information > > is missing from the problem definition: What is the task we want to > > support the users doing on their phone? > > > > And if blockchains are unrelated to connectivity, why is connectivity the > > central issue of this problem statement? > > > > > > -- > > Richard Gaskin > > Fourth World Systems > > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From me at jerrydaniels.com Wed Aug 17 18:47:04 2016 From: me at jerrydaniels.com (me at jerrydaniels.com) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 17:47:04 -0500 Subject: blockchain In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1e6bf6b0-d6e0-43a0-8881-7c510a48c3a4@Spark> Richard, cost savings, security, privacy. Costs are drastically reduced without hosting and its (hidden) labor/maintenance. Just think about the long record of exploitation of hosted SQL data. Not in the models were discussing here. On Aug 17, 2016, 5:12 PM -0500, Richard Gaskin , wrote: > Mike Kerner wrote: > > > Connectivity isn't central, it's simply a failure mode that gives us > > an extra wrinkle. Ignore connectivity, and just focus on getting rid > > of the server, if you like. Or, design a decentralized diamond > > registry. > > What is the business benefit for this application to go P2P rather than > client-server? > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From me at jerrydaniels.com Wed Aug 17 18:51:23 2016 From: me at jerrydaniels.com (me at jerrydaniels.com) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 17:51:23 -0500 Subject: blockchain In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2f1b22ce-c7c8-4efe-902e-61e35cc17c6b@Spark> Richard, Mike...sorry for my butting in here. Feel free to ignore my interruption. On Aug 17, 2016, 5:12 PM -0500, Richard Gaskin , wrote: > Mike Kerner wrote: > > > Connectivity isn't central, it's simply a failure mode that gives us > > an extra wrinkle. Ignore connectivity, and just focus on getting rid > > of the server, if you like. Or, design a decentralized diamond > > registry. > > What is the business benefit for this application to go P2P rather than > client-server? > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dochawk at gmail.com Wed Aug 17 19:15:31 2016 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 16:15:31 -0700 Subject: [ANN] lcb-mode v0.1.1: Emacs major mode for LCB source code In-Reply-To: <1471458828016-4707564.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <45b2bc0e-1ae1-73f7-85a5-8ae040500b6f@fourthworld.com> <3e635b15-8eb8-a02a-591a-f663e96f0307@tweedly.org> <1471458828016-4707564.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 11:33 AM, mwieder wrote: > Right... that would be an IV... > :) -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From monte at appisle.net Wed Aug 17 19:26:09 2016 From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2016 09:26:09 +1000 Subject: Garbage collection (crashing on Windows) In-Reply-To: <58904964-04d1-62de-6ffb-c6fd464eb974@cogapp.com> References: <58904964-04d1-62de-6ffb-c6fd464eb974@cogapp.com> Message-ID: There are certainly a number of tricks you can use to reduce the memory usage of your app. One interesting one I learnt recently after an internal discussion was because LiveCode copies values that have multiple reference when they are mutated and custom properties are arrays linked to the object you can save some memory by doing the following: put the myProp of me into tVar set the myProp of me to empty ? here we are dereferencing the value so LiveCode doesn?t do a deep copy MutateVar tVar set the myProp of me to tVar Obviously there?s also passing by reference etc to reduce copies. The other thing you want to look at doing here is processing data in chunks rather than reading it all in. Cheers Monte > On 18 Aug 2016, at 3:52 AM, Ben Rubinstein wrote: > > Please refresh my memory: is there any way to cause/allow garbage to be collected without ending all script running? > > I have an app which process large amounts of data. It runs fine on Mac, but on Windows intermittently (but not frequently as the application data source, which fluctuates, is gradually increasing) as the total memory in use approaches 2GB, the app faults. > > Obviously this is very distressing for me and my client, because the app has lost control at this point and can't even tell us what's happening (it normally runs on a schedule on a VM, so it often takes days to discover that the system downstream hasn't been updated for a while, and trace back to find that the LC app is halted). > > I have managed to reduce the incidence of this by breaking the processing into two parts, but this is undesirable for various reasons, and only palliative. What I really want is a way for my main function to invoke garbage collection after calling some of the larger processing steps. > > Is there any way to do this? Am I right in thinking that the issue is related to LC's total memory usage reaching 2GB on Windows? Are there any useful functions (e.g. the "hasMemory" function is documented as "only partially implemented, and may not return useful values on some platforms", which makes it seem pretty pointless...)? From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Aug 17 20:27:54 2016 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 17:27:54 -0700 Subject: blockchain In-Reply-To: <1e6bf6b0-d6e0-43a0-8881-7c510a48c3a4@Spark> References: <1e6bf6b0-d6e0-43a0-8881-7c510a48c3a4@Spark> Message-ID: Jerry Daniels wrote: > On Aug 17, 2016, 5:12 PM -0500, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> >> What is the business benefit for this application to go P2P rather >> than client-server? > > Richard, cost savings, security, privacy. Costs are drastically > reduced without hosting and its (hidden) labor/maintenance. Just > think about the long record of exploitation of hosted SQL data. > Not in the models were discussing here. I like the idea* of P2P for some applications, but with the explosion of cloud services the client-server model seems to have merit as well. On the one hand, there are the risks of managing (hopefully redundant) server farms. On the other hand there are the risks of having every client also be a server, but without a team of professionals hardening and monitoring it. All systems are hackable. Ideally prevention, monitoring, and recovery are budgeted for in the business plan with any architecture. I believe there's a role for both client-server and P2P, and federated models as well. Each has its own benefits and tradeoffs; like programming languages, there'll always be more because use cases where they can add value only grow and diversify. Back to blockchains, from my reading it's becoming clear that the distributed trust is a compelling feature, along with the increased speed with which transaction ledgers can be conveyed faithfully. Like the early days of railroads, networks outside of Bitcoin employ different standards, each with its own kinks to work out but worth the effort. Over time it seems likely they'll impact global quality of life as significantly as the invention of compound interest. Lots to learn.... > Richard, Mike...sorry for my butting in here. Feel free to ignore my > interruption. Au contraire, mon ami. Always good to have you around. * I've been paranoid for years, and enjoying Mr. Robot has only made that worse. :) For the last several years I've run my main laptop and workstation with no open ports (easy to do with Ubuntu since it ships that way; took some work to harden my Mac). This has meant that as eagerly as I used to visit openp2p.com and read the other things, these days P2P is an interesting set of ideas but not something I focus on; all collaboration systems here use only outbound connections. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From lists at mangomultimedia.com Wed Aug 17 22:34:10 2016 From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 21:34:10 -0500 Subject: Does tsNet support https proxies? Message-ID: To anyone who knows, Does the tenet library properly detect and use proxy servers for https urls? The original version of libURL lumps the http proxy and the https proxy together in one setting (the httpproxy) which doesn't always work on some installations. -- Trevor DeVore ScreenSteps www.screensteps.com - www.clarify-it.com From charles at techstrategies.com.au Wed Aug 17 23:30:06 2016 From: charles at techstrategies.com.au (Charles Warwick) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2016 13:30:06 +1000 Subject: Does tsNet support https proxies? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Trevor, If you are using the standard networking commands supported by libUrl, then libUrl provides the proxy detection even if tsNet is in use. I know that you have submitted a bug report about an issue with that and it is something I am planning on taking a look at soon. Currently, if you use the tsNet commands directly, they do not use the settings provided by libUrl. To use a proxy, you need to set it with the tsNetSetProxy command or set the "http_proxy", "ftp_proxy" or "all_proxy" environment variables. Regards, Charles On 18/08/2016 12:34 pm, Trevor DeVore wrote: > To anyone who knows, > > Does the tenet library properly detect and use proxy servers for https > urls? The original version of libURL lumps the http proxy and the https > proxy together in one setting (the httpproxy) which doesn't always work on > some installations. > From lists at mangomultimedia.com Thu Aug 18 00:46:56 2016 From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2016 23:46:56 -0500 Subject: Does tsNet support https proxies? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 10:30 PM, Charles Warwick < charles at techstrategies.com.au> wrote: > > I know that you have submitted a bug report about an issue with that and > it is something I am planning on taking a look at soon. > Thanks. > Currently, if you use the tsNet commands directly, they do not use the > settings provided by libUrl. To use a proxy, you need to set it with the > tsNetSetProxy command or set the "http_proxy", "ftp_proxy" or "all_proxy" > environment variables. > Is there an "https_proxy" environment variable or option for tsNetSetProxy? The issue is that some networks use the same proxy for both but others use a proxy for http and none for https traffic. -- Trevor DeVore ScreenSteps www.screensteps.com - www.clarify-it.com From palcibiades-first at yahoo.co.uk Thu Aug 18 04:24:10 2016 From: palcibiades-first at yahoo.co.uk (Peter Alcibiades) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2016 01:24:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ANN] lcb-mode v0.1.1: Emacs major mode for LCB source code In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1471508650818-4707581.post@n4.nabble.com> What I would really like to see is a plugin for Geany.... But its way beyond my own capabilities to do one myself. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/ANN-lcb-mode-v0-1-1-Emacs-major-mode-for-LCB-source-code-tp4707514p4707581.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From palcibiades-first at yahoo.co.uk Thu Aug 18 04:42:44 2016 From: palcibiades-first at yahoo.co.uk (Peter Alcibiades) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2016 01:42:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [OT] The unexpected merits of Linux Mint, Mate Edition Message-ID: <1471509764223-4707582.post@n4.nabble.com> I needed to have a laptop work in dual boot mode with Windows 10 pretty much identically in respect of networking, that is, LAN if connected, WIFI if not, and then 3G if not, automatically. I just couldn't get WIFI with this chip set to work on Debian despite installing the non-free drivers. Very strange. Anyway, I thought why not try Mint with the MATE interface. And its a delight. Ubuntu based of course, but we must not hold that against it. After all the idiotic nonsense of the new Gnome and KDE and the various fumblings through tiling window managers that we've seen from Windows, here you have an up to date re-implementation of Gnome 2. It just gets out of the way and gives you access to the apps. It comes in a reasonably small footprint, it installs in EFI mode with no issues. It has a sensible collection of apps. For instance, it comes with external drive encryption already installed. It doesn't have the bloated Evolution or Kontact, and Claws-Mail is in the repositories. Out of the box the default settings are all reasonable and the look and feel is understated and sober, but quite attractive. Mate is quite configurable of course. There appears to be another package manager in addition to Synaptic. Maybe it comes from Ubuntu? Anyway, in an apparent concession to the modern Gnome insanity it seems to have been designed with the aim of preventing anyone finding the app they are looking to install, but never mind, as long as Synaptic is available it doesn't hurt. The only niggle that came up is that you need to manually install pmount to have user write access to usb drives. But apart from that, everything just worked immediately, including an invitation to install the non-free drivers, which then went in and worked. I don't greatly care for the reliance on sudo, which means in effect that you only have one password for both root and user access, and would prefer a proper root account and password, but for the average end user its not a big deal, and one can manually reset it to the traditional way. Or what used to be the traditional way. MATE, if you have not tried it, is brilliant, and this is a nice implementation of it in a distribution. Peter Anyway, well recommended. This is an excellent package from a first class team. Not quite enough to make one say, move to this and renounce Debian, but a really worthy alternative. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/OT-The-unexpected-merits-of-Linux-Mint-Mate-Edition-tp4707582.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From david at viral.academy Thu Aug 18 06:20:10 2016 From: david at viral.academy (David Bovill) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2016 11:20:10 +0100 Subject: blockchain In-Reply-To: References: <1e6bf6b0-d6e0-43a0-8881-7c510a48c3a4@Spark> Message-ID: Yes - I've been interested in Livecode and blockchain for a couple of years now. I've been following Ethereum since the beginning - we tried to make a documentary about the project and I went to DevCon 1 in Berlin as the team started it's development. There is an interesting online Hackathon in November if any Livecoders are interested in taking part / forming a team? On 18 August 2016 at 01:27, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Jerry Daniels wrote: > > > On Aug 17, 2016, 5:12 PM -0500, Richard Gaskin wrote: > >> > >> What is the business benefit for this application to go P2P rather > >> than client-server? > > > > Richard, cost savings, security, privacy. Costs are drastically > > reduced without hosting and its (hidden) labor/maintenance. Just > > think about the long record of exploitation of hosted SQL data. > > Not in the models were discussing here. > > I like the idea* of P2P for some applications, but with the explosion of > cloud services the client-server model seems to have merit as well. > > On the one hand, there are the risks of managing (hopefully redundant) > server farms. On the other hand there are the risks of having every client > also be a server, but without a team of professionals hardening and > monitoring it. > > All systems are hackable. Ideally prevention, monitoring, and recovery > are budgeted for in the business plan with any architecture. > > I believe there's a role for both client-server and P2P, and federated > models as well. Each has its own benefits and tradeoffs; like programming > languages, there'll always be more because use cases where they can add > value only grow and diversify. > > Back to blockchains, from my reading it's becoming clear that the > distributed trust is a compelling feature, along with the increased speed > with which transaction ledgers can be conveyed faithfully. Like the early > days of railroads, networks outside of Bitcoin employ different standards, > each with its own kinks to work out but worth the effort. Over time it > seems likely they'll impact global quality of life as significantly as the > invention of compound interest. > > Lots to learn.... > > > > Richard, Mike...sorry for my butting in here. Feel free to ignore my > > interruption. > > Au contraire, mon ami. Always good to have you around. > > > > * I've been paranoid for years, and enjoying Mr. Robot has only made that > worse. :) For the last several years I've run my main laptop and > workstation with no open ports (easy to do with Ubuntu since it ships that > way; took some work to harden my Mac). This has meant that as eagerly as I > used to visit openp2p.com and read the other things, these days P2P is an > interesting set of ideas but not something I focus on; all collaboration > systems here use only outbound connections. > > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Thu Aug 18 08:44:39 2016 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2016 08:44:39 -0400 Subject: blockchain In-Reply-To: References: <1e6bf6b0-d6e0-43a0-8881-7c510a48c3a4@Spark> Message-ID: James, I'm always interested in what other folks are doing, and I'd like to hear more about the setup. David, I'd definitely be interested. On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 6:20 AM, David Bovill wrote: > Yes - I've been interested in Livecode and blockchain for a couple of years > now. I've been following Ethereum since the beginning - we tried to make a > documentary about the project and I went to DevCon 1 in Berlin as the team > started it's development. > > There is an interesting online Hackathon in November if any Livecoders are > interested in taking part / forming a team? > > On 18 August 2016 at 01:27, Richard Gaskin > wrote: > > > Jerry Daniels wrote: > > > > > On Aug 17, 2016, 5:12 PM -0500, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > >> > > >> What is the business benefit for this application to go P2P rather > > >> than client-server? > > > > > > Richard, cost savings, security, privacy. Costs are drastically > > > reduced without hosting and its (hidden) labor/maintenance. Just > > > think about the long record of exploitation of hosted SQL data. > > > Not in the models were discussing here. > > > > I like the idea* of P2P for some applications, but with the explosion of > > cloud services the client-server model seems to have merit as well. > > > > On the one hand, there are the risks of managing (hopefully redundant) > > server farms. On the other hand there are the risks of having every > client > > also be a server, but without a team of professionals hardening and > > monitoring it. > > > > All systems are hackable. Ideally prevention, monitoring, and recovery > > are budgeted for in the business plan with any architecture. > > > > I believe there's a role for both client-server and P2P, and federated > > models as well. Each has its own benefits and tradeoffs; like > programming > > languages, there'll always be more because use cases where they can add > > value only grow and diversify. > > > > Back to blockchains, from my reading it's becoming clear that the > > distributed trust is a compelling feature, along with the increased speed > > with which transaction ledgers can be conveyed faithfully. Like the > early > > days of railroads, networks outside of Bitcoin employ different > standards, > > each with its own kinks to work out but worth the effort. Over time it > > seems likely they'll impact global quality of life as significantly as > the > > invention of compound interest. > > > > Lots to learn.... > > > > > > > Richard, Mike...sorry for my butting in here. Feel free to ignore my > > > interruption. > > > > Au contraire, mon ami. Always good to have you around. > > > > > > > > * I've been paranoid for years, and enjoying Mr. Robot has only made that > > worse. :) For the last several years I've run my main laptop and > > workstation with no open ports (easy to do with Ubuntu since it ships > that > > way; took some work to harden my Mac). This has meant that as eagerly as > I > > used to visit openp2p.com and read the other things, these days P2P is > an > > interesting set of ideas but not something I focus on; all collaboration > > systems here use only outbound connections. > > > > > > -- > > Richard Gaskin > > Fourth World Systems > > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Aug 18 09:16:04 2016 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2016 06:16:04 -0700 Subject: Garbage collection (crashing on Windows) In-Reply-To: <58904964-04d1-62de-6ffb-c6fd464eb974@cogapp.com> References: <58904964-04d1-62de-6ffb-c6fd464eb974@cogapp.com> Message-ID: <3623c437-1533-75f3-917c-597b4f496ff0@fourthworld.com> Ben Rubinstein wrote: > Please refresh my memory: is there any way to cause/allow garbage to be > collected without ending all script running? > > I have an app which process large amounts of data. It runs fine on Mac, but on > Windows intermittently (but not frequently as the application data source, > which fluctuates, is gradually increasing) as the total memory in use > approaches 2GB, the app faults. > > Obviously this is very distressing for me and my client, because the app has > lost control at this point and can't even tell us what's happening (it > normally runs on a schedule on a VM, so it often takes days to discover that > the system downstream hasn't been updated for a while, and trace back to find > that the LC app is halted). > > I have managed to reduce the incidence of this by breaking the processing into > two parts, but this is undesirable for various reasons, and only palliative. > What I really want is a way for my main function to invoke garbage collection > after calling some of the larger processing steps. > > Is there any way to do this? Am I right in thinking that the issue is related > to LC's total memory usage reaching 2GB on Windows? Are there any useful > functions (e.g. the "hasMemory" function is documented as "only partially > implemented, and may not return useful values on some platforms", which makes > it seem pretty pointless...)? LC's hasMemory function was useful in Mac Classic where it was first introduced to the xTalk world in SuperCard, but with modern memory management it would be difficult if not impossible to try to make it work as it used to, allowing an app to modify the system's control of memory. Monte's tips were great (thanks Monte, love learning engine details like that!), but since memory is only problematic on Windows but not Mac, I wonder if this may be merely a leak that could be fixed? Are you deleting variables when they're no longer needed? Does introducing a periodic idle help? Can you tell us a bit about what the app is working on, particularly the size of the data and what it's doing with it? If it's a leak we should be able to hone in on what's causing it. And if it's an expected behavior that needs tailoring for your algo, I'll bet we can find a way to make it work as well on Win as it does on Mac. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From benr_mc at cogapp.com Thu Aug 18 10:28:40 2016 From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2016 15:28:40 +0100 Subject: Garbage collection (crashing on Windows) In-Reply-To: References: <58904964-04d1-62de-6ffb-c6fd464eb974@cogapp.com> Message-ID: <78de85f4-8976-0f7c-d917-df2cdc7b69c8@cogapp.com> Thanks Monte, Richard. As it happens this script isn't doing with properties, which is good (or bad since that potentially easy fix isn't available to me!) but that's a useful tip to remember. I've already moved some very large functions to passing by reference. The real problem is that the script was written originally 13 years ago, and the basic architecture was to load everything into large global arrays for cleanliness. Over that period, the size of the data has multiplied over the years by 1-2 orders of magnitude; and meanwhile the processing has been modified and warped almost continuously, so it's a really complicated rats nest. The whole project is reaching its sunset, so the client isn't keen to invest in major refactoring... but just at this point we seem to be regularly hitting this limit. My two biggest problems are: - LC just in effect crashes/halts, rather than throwing an error so the app could at least report the problem - as far as I can tell, when I empty globals etc the memory isn't being recovered. This is really the root of my problem. Ben On 18/08/2016 00:26, Monte Goulding wrote: > There are certainly a number of tricks you can use to reduce the memory usage of your app. One interesting one I learnt recently after an internal discussion was because LiveCode copies values that have multiple reference when they are mutated and custom properties are arrays linked to the object you can save some memory by doing the following: > > put the myProp of me into tVar > set the myProp of me to empty ? here we are dereferencing the value so LiveCode doesn?t do a deep copy > MutateVar tVar > set the myProp of me to tVar > > Obviously there?s also passing by reference etc to reduce copies. > > The other thing you want to look at doing here is processing data in chunks rather than reading it all in. > > Cheers > > Monte > >> On 18 Aug 2016, at 3:52 AM, Ben Rubinstein wrote: >> >> Please refresh my memory: is there any way to cause/allow garbage to be collected without ending all script running? >> >> I have an app which process large amounts of data. It runs fine on Mac, but on Windows intermittently (but not frequently as the application data source, which fluctuates, is gradually increasing) as the total memory in use approaches 2GB, the app faults. >> >> Obviously this is very distressing for me and my client, because the app has lost control at this point and can't even tell us what's happening (it normally runs on a schedule on a VM, so it often takes days to discover that the system downstream hasn't been updated for a while, and trace back to find that the LC app is halted). >> >> I have managed to reduce the incidence of this by breaking the processing into two parts, but this is undesirable for various reasons, and only palliative. What I really want is a way for my main function to invoke garbage collection after calling some of the larger processing steps. >> >> Is there any way to do this? Am I right in thinking that the issue is related to LC's total memory usage reaching 2GB on Windows? Are there any useful functions (e.g. the "hasMemory" function is documented as "only partially implemented, and may not return useful values on some platforms", which makes it seem pretty pointless...)? > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From bonnmike at gmail.com Thu Aug 18 10:59:53 2016 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2016 08:59:53 -0600 Subject: Garbage collection (crashing on Windows) In-Reply-To: <78de85f4-8976-0f7c-d917-df2cdc7b69c8@cogapp.com> References: <58904964-04d1-62de-6ffb-c6fd464eb974@cogapp.com> <78de85f4-8976-0f7c-d917-df2cdc7b69c8@cogapp.com> Message-ID: If you switch to using an array key with your global variable, and then " delete global gArray[yourkey]" it should release the memory. On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 8:28 AM, Ben Rubinstein wrote: > Thanks Monte, Richard. > > As it happens this script isn't doing with properties, which is good (or > bad since that potentially easy fix isn't available to me!) but that's a > useful tip to remember. I've already moved some very large functions to > passing by reference. > > The real problem is that the script was written originally 13 years ago, > and the basic architecture was to load everything into large global arrays > for cleanliness. Over that period, the size of the data has multiplied over > the years by 1-2 orders of magnitude; and meanwhile the processing has been > modified and warped almost continuously, so it's a really complicated rats > nest. The whole project is reaching its sunset, so the client isn't keen to > invest in major refactoring... but just at this point we seem to be > regularly hitting this limit. > > My two biggest problems are: > > - LC just in effect crashes/halts, rather than throwing an error so the > app could at least report the problem > > - as far as I can tell, when I empty globals etc the memory isn't being > recovered. This is really the root of my problem. > > Ben > > > On 18/08/2016 00:26, Monte Goulding wrote: > >> There are certainly a number of tricks you can use to reduce the memory >> usage of your app. One interesting one I learnt recently after an internal >> discussion was because LiveCode copies values that have multiple reference >> when they are mutated and custom properties are arrays linked to the object >> you can save some memory by doing the following: >> >> put the myProp of me into tVar >> set the myProp of me to empty ? here we are dereferencing the value so >> LiveCode doesn?t do a deep copy >> MutateVar tVar >> set the myProp of me to tVar >> >> Obviously there?s also passing by reference etc to reduce copies. >> >> The other thing you want to look at doing here is processing data in >> chunks rather than reading it all in. >> >> Cheers >> >> Monte >> >> On 18 Aug 2016, at 3:52 AM, Ben Rubinstein wrote: >>> >>> Please refresh my memory: is there any way to cause/allow garbage to be >>> collected without ending all script running? >>> >>> I have an app which process large amounts of data. It runs fine on Mac, >>> but on Windows intermittently (but not frequently as the application data >>> source, which fluctuates, is gradually increasing) as the total memory in >>> use approaches 2GB, the app faults. >>> >>> Obviously this is very distressing for me and my client, because the app >>> has lost control at this point and can't even tell us what's happening (it >>> normally runs on a schedule on a VM, so it often takes days to discover >>> that the system downstream hasn't been updated for a while, and trace back >>> to find that the LC app is halted). >>> >>> I have managed to reduce the incidence of this by breaking the >>> processing into two parts, but this is undesirable for various reasons, and >>> only palliative. What I really want is a way for my main function to invoke >>> garbage collection after calling some of the larger processing steps. >>> >>> Is there any way to do this? Am I right in thinking that the issue is >>> related to LC's total memory usage reaching 2GB on Windows? Are there any >>> useful functions (e.g. the "hasMemory" function is documented as "only >>> partially implemented, and may not return useful values on some platforms", >>> which makes it seem pretty pointless...)? >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bonnmike at gmail.com Thu Aug 18 11:01:04 2016 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2016 09:01:04 -0600 Subject: Garbage collection (crashing on Windows) In-Reply-To: References: <58904964-04d1-62de-6ffb-c6fd464eb974@cogapp.com> <78de85f4-8976-0f7c-d917-df2cdc7b69c8@cogapp.com> Message-ID: Or you can probably delete the whole variable directly. On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 8:59 AM, Mike Bonner wrote: > If you switch to using an array key with your global variable, and then " > delete global gArray[yourkey]" it should release the memory. > > > On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 8:28 AM, Ben Rubinstein > wrote: > >> Thanks Monte, Richard. >> >> As it happens this script isn't doing with properties, which is good (or >> bad since that potentially easy fix isn't available to me!) but that's a >> useful tip to remember. I've already moved some very large functions to >> passing by reference. >> >> The real problem is that the script was written originally 13 years ago, >> and the basic architecture was to load everything into large global arrays >> for cleanliness. Over that period, the size of the data has multiplied over >> the years by 1-2 orders of magnitude; and meanwhile the processing has been >> modified and warped almost continuously, so it's a really complicated rats >> nest. The whole project is reaching its sunset, so the client isn't keen to >> invest in major refactoring... but just at this point we seem to be >> regularly hitting this limit. >> >> My two biggest problems are: >> >> - LC just in effect crashes/halts, rather than throwing an error so the >> app could at least report the problem >> >> - as far as I can tell, when I empty globals etc the memory isn't being >> recovered. This is really the root of my problem. >> >> Ben >> >> >> On 18/08/2016 00:26, Monte Goulding wrote: >> >>> There are certainly a number of tricks you can use to reduce the memory >>> usage of your app. One interesting one I learnt recently after an internal >>> discussion was because LiveCode copies values that have multiple reference >>> when they are mutated and custom properties are arrays linked to the object >>> you can save some memory by doing the following: >>> >>> put the myProp of me into tVar >>> set the myProp of me to empty ? here we are dereferencing the value so >>> LiveCode doesn?t do a deep copy >>> MutateVar tVar >>> set the myProp of me to tVar >>> >>> Obviously there?s also passing by reference etc to reduce copies. >>> >>> The other thing you want to look at doing here is processing data in >>> chunks rather than reading it all in. >>> >>> Cheers >>> >>> Monte >>> >>> On 18 Aug 2016, at 3:52 AM, Ben Rubinstein wrote: >>>> >>>> Please refresh my memory: is there any way to cause/allow garbage to be >>>> collected without ending all script running? >>>> >>>> I have an app which process large amounts of data. It runs fine on Mac, >>>> but on Windows intermittently (but not frequently as the application data >>>> source, which fluctuates, is gradually increasing) as the total memory in >>>> use approaches 2GB, the app faults. >>>> >>>> Obviously this is very distressing for me and my client, because the >>>> app has lost control at this point and can't even tell us what's happening >>>> (it normally runs on a schedule on a VM, so it often takes days to discover >>>> that the system downstream hasn't been updated for a while, and trace back >>>> to find that the LC app is halted). >>>> >>>> I have managed to reduce the incidence of this by breaking the >>>> processing into two parts, but this is undesirable for various reasons, and >>>> only palliative. What I really want is a way for my main function to invoke >>>> garbage collection after calling some of the larger processing steps. >>>> >>>> Is there any way to do this? Am I right in thinking that the issue is >>>> related to LC's total memory usage reaching 2GB on Windows? Are there any >>>> useful functions (e.g. the "hasMemory" function is documented as "only >>>> partially implemented, and may not return useful values on some platforms", >>>> which makes it seem pretty pointless...)? >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Aug 18 11:16:50 2016 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2016 08:16:50 -0700 Subject: Garbage collection (crashing on Windows) In-Reply-To: <78de85f4-8976-0f7c-d917-df2cdc7b69c8@cogapp.com> References: <78de85f4-8976-0f7c-d917-df2cdc7b69c8@cogapp.com> Message-ID: <6a8cdce0-e16a-5ba6-8048-4911e2a2fdcf@fourthworld.com> Ben Rubinstein wrote: > The real problem is that the script was written originally 13 years > ago, and the basic architecture was to load everything into large > global arrays for cleanliness. Over that period, the size of the data > has multiplied over the years by 1-2 orders of magnitude.... Just how big is the data you need to work with in RAM at any given time? > My two biggest problems are: > > - LC just in effect crashes/halts, rather than throwing an error so > the app could at least report the problem The challenge with low-memory conditions are that if there isn't enough RAM to operate normally there may not be enough RAM to report that through normal error-handling mechanisms. It would certainly be nice to have reliable out-of-memory reporting, but I've never seen in it any xTalk yet. > - as far as I can tell, when I empty globals etc the memory isn't > being recovered. This is really the root of my problem. At first glance that sounds like a bug. If you can find a way to create a simple test case to demonstrate a global not freeing up RAM after being emptied I'll bet the team could fix it quickly. Grasping at straws here, I wonder if introducing an idle after the emptying might help, e.g.: put empty into gSomeVar wait 0 with messages That should normally surrender control to the OS event loop, and if that's needed to complete the clearing of the RAM you may have a workaround for now. I'd still call it a workaround, though, since we can't expect newcomers to be able to guess about such things; ideally the engine would clear memory when we ask it to. If "put empty..." doesn't work, I wonder if this might trigger something more complete: delete variable gSomeVar -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From bogdanoff at me.com Thu Aug 18 13:51:45 2016 From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2016 13:51:45 -0400 Subject: Searching text external to Livecode Message-ID: <0B43DC2D-3122-4D20-B9C5-C7521F13D015@me.com> Hi all, I?m building a text-heavy application that requires a good text search capability. I?ve been using Scott McDonald?s RRPsearch plugin for awhile now with good results. However: 1. It doesn?t seem to handle text that has extended characters next to words?like long dashes, curly quotes, etc.?and tends to leave those words out of the search index. So I?ve had to modify things to make it work (put spaces around those words), but that solution doesn?t seem to work in LC 8 now. Livecode?s find command in LC8 is really, REALLY slow when you're doing multiple (thousands) of finds. And this way of doing things won?t work in the my next step... 2. I?m moving my application from LC stacks each with multiple cards containing text in fields, to having the text and data stored externally on disk in HTML files, and showing the text in a viewer stack. 3. I?m also starting to have multiple languages in addition to English?Chinese right now?that also needs to have search capability. Does anyone know if there a solution that search indexes folders of HTML files that I can implement into Livecode? And also handles non-English text? Peter Bogdanoff UCLA From revolution at jaedworks.com Thu Aug 18 14:09:35 2016 From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2016 11:09:35 -0700 Subject: Garbage collection (crashing on Windows) In-Reply-To: <78de85f4-8976-0f7c-d917-df2cdc7b69c8@cogapp.com> References: <58904964-04d1-62de-6ffb-c6fd464eb974@cogapp.com> <78de85f4-8976-0f7c-d917-df2cdc7b69c8@cogapp.com> Message-ID: At 3:28 PM +0100 8/18/2016, Ben Rubinstein wrote: >The real problem is that the script was written originally 13 years >ago, and the basic architecture was to load everything into large >global arrays for cleanliness. I've had ugly crashes with large or complex arrays (that weren't anywhere near the 4G limit). There are (or perhaps were - this may have been fixed in the 8.x cycle) some problems with the way such arrays were structured in memory, IIRC. Which engine version are you using? (Apologies if you already said that and I missed this.) From benr_mc at cogapp.com Thu Aug 18 14:35:39 2016 From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2016 19:35:39 +0100 Subject: Garbage collection (crashing on Windows) In-Reply-To: References: <58904964-04d1-62de-6ffb-c6fd464eb974@cogapp.com> <78de85f4-8976-0f7c-d917-df2cdc7b69c8@cogapp.com> Message-ID: <223f3498-48d1-9992-cc6e-96fbd3812904@cogapp.com> On 18/08/2016 19:09, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote: > At 3:28 PM +0100 8/18/2016, Ben Rubinstein wrote: >> The real problem is that the script was written originally 13 years ago, and >> the basic architecture was to load everything into large global arrays for >> cleanliness. > > > I've had ugly crashes with large or complex arrays (that weren't anywhere near > the 4G limit). There are (or perhaps were - this may have been fixed in the > 8.x cycle) some problems with the way such arrays were structured in memory, > IIRC. > > Which engine version are you using? (Apologies if you already said that and I > missed this.) Every version from 2.4 to 8.1! One problem of course is that over this long my memory fades - checking the script I see that it has a number of instances of wait for 1 second with messages -- theory that this might improve garbage collection which is why I thought I'd established that this doesn't work; although the latest problem is arising earlier in the process than previously, so I'll review to see whether I could also do this earlier, in case it does in fact help. Ben From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Aug 18 14:52:34 2016 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2016 11:52:34 -0700 Subject: Searching text external to Livecode In-Reply-To: <0B43DC2D-3122-4D20-B9C5-C7521F13D015@me.com> References: <0B43DC2D-3122-4D20-B9C5-C7521F13D015@me.com> Message-ID: Peter Bogdanoff wrote: > Does anyone know if there a solution that search indexes folders of > HTML files that I can implement into Livecode? And also handles > non-English text? I've written a few specialized search engines and just started another one the other day for more general-purpose needs. The upside is that it handles HTML along with some other formats, but the downside is it's decidedly English-centric (I use a Porter stemmer, and while I've considered using his variants for other Latin-based languages I have no such facility for languages like Chinese). Scott's tool seems pretty nice. Any chance you could just import your data into cards to use that? By "thousands", just how many thousands? Maybe the simplest solution for somewhat large collections would be the free-text indexing built into SQLite. Anyone here know if we have a means of using that from within LC? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Thu Aug 18 15:38:53 2016 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (mwieder) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2016 12:38:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [OT] The unexpected merits of Linux Mint, Mate Edition In-Reply-To: <1471509764223-4707582.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1471509764223-4707582.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <1471549133708-4707594.post@n4.nabble.com> Thanks for the review. I'm pretty happy with Cinnamon on Mint, but I'll throw this into a VM and give it a try. If you don't want a Ubuntu base, you might want to try MATE on Mint Debian. It's a bit more bleeding edge, but better compatibility and faster rolling releases because of that. Don't know if it'll help with the wifi drivers though. https://www.linuxmint.com/download_lmde.php ----- -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/OT-The-unexpected-merits-of-Linux-Mint-Mate-Edition-tp4707582p4707594.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From bogdanoff at me.com Thu Aug 18 16:57:52 2016 From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2016 16:57:52 -0400 Subject: Searching text external to Livecode In-Reply-To: References: <0B43DC2D-3122-4D20-B9C5-C7521F13D015@me.com> Message-ID: <9E1277B4-F230-4159-9A8E-61C4D8592BEA@me.com> > On Aug 18, 2016, at 2:52 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > Peter Bogdanoff wrote: > > > Does anyone know if there a solution that search indexes folders of > > HTML files that I can implement into Livecode? And also handles > > non-English text? > > I've written a few specialized search engines and just started another one the other day for more general-purpose needs. The upside is that it handles HTML along with some other formats, but the downside is it's decidedly English-centric (I use a Porter stemmer, and while I've considered using his variants for other Latin-based languages I have no such facility for languages like Chinese). I?m not needing stemming, just a simple exact string search. I see that stemming is very difficult in Chinese. > > Scott's tool seems pretty nice. Any chance you could just import your data into cards to use that? That would seem to be a way of doing it. I?ll try it. Thanks. > > By "thousands", just how many thousands? I?ve not kept track of how many. In running this script again I see that whereas in LC 6 the screen was locked, in LC 8 the screen is unlocking which is slowing it way down. > Maybe the simplest solution for somewhat large collections would be the free-text indexing built into SQLite. Anyone here know if we have a means of using that from within LC? > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From monte at appisle.net Thu Aug 18 17:35:11 2016 From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2016 07:35:11 +1000 Subject: loadStack message use cases Message-ID: Hi Folks I?m wondering if anyone with interest could post use cases they can think of for a loadStack message to the following bug report. This would be a message sent to a stack before preOpeStack when the stack is first loaded into memory. It?s possible that the only use cases are for the IDE. http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18223 Cheers Monte From alex at tweedly.net Thu Aug 18 19:20:40 2016 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2016 00:20:40 +0100 Subject: The Joy of Removing Features - Part 2: Finding / removing duplicate files / photos. Message-ID: <256b7033-8046-cd99-0833-b10adc697ed8@tweedly.net> Part 2 of a 4-part series on developing simple apps for photo management and viewing. [ previously ... Part 1 described the justification and development of a very simple photo viewing app ] The next issue to deal with is the run-away number of photos, and the amount of disk space taken up by them. I strongly suspect that is at least partly due to my casual (some would say "disorganized") approach to managing the photos, and the multiple computers they originated from and are kept on (my desktop, laptop, daughter's laptop, back-up disks, safe copies on other external drives, USB drives previously used to store / transfer folders of photos, etc.) So the next step is to find and eliminate (or at least reduce) duplicated photos. Of course, I could simply Google "remove duplicate photos mac" and follow some of the 382,000 resulting links - but where's the fun in that :-) At least some of those apps do, or claim to do, amazing things - find different resolution or different quality versions of the same photo, etc. - but I don't feel a need to look for those; I just need, initially at least, to find the simple, exact duplicates. To give some context, I have been using a sample subset of 16,000 out of my approx 55,00 photos; these are mostly low/med resolution (i.e. iPhone or old digital camera JPEGs, between 200Kb and 1.5Mb each). However. my new camera is rather more resource-hungry (JPEGs are 24Mb or so - hence the urgency to actually implement some of these ideas that I have been kicking around for a long time :-) I have a variety of schemes in mind to speed up the process, though each of them needs to be verified for effectiveness, or indeed necessity. The basic outline *was* 1. walk through to collect all folder names (i.e. the complete tree(s) within the folder(s) specified by the user) 2. visit each folder in turn to collect details of all (relevant) files - with optimizations for folders/files that haven't changed since the info was previously collected 3. partition the files by size; and then reduce the list of files to the potential duplicates 4. further reduce by file signature (i.e. a small sample of say 12 bytes from pre-specified locations) 5. get the md5hash of remaining files, and look for duplicates 6. present the data to the user (!?) However, some simple benchmarking suggested that this was unnecessarily complicated - i.e. I can again remove features, even before they have been specified or implemented. The task of detecting and avoiding redundant work in step 2a is not terribly complicated - but it's definitely the most brain-taxing part of the whole problem - and in any case, won't apply to the first time the app is used. So that part can be delayed at least until I find out how slow the process is - i.e. hopefully forever. The need for using MD5 hashes, rather than simply comparing the files completely is also questionable. It turns out that calculating an MD5 hash of a file takes roughly 10x as long as comparing that file to another identical one (i.e. the worst case for comparison - comparing to a differing file would complete more quickly). So step 5 can also be delayed (or avoided) until we determine how often it is likely we will be matching larger sets of files. Similarly, step 4 can be delayed (or avoided) until we see how well the file size works as a partition - and it turns out to do a good job. Of the 16,073 files, there are 14652 different sizes; of these, 1400 sizes have 2 matching files while 10 sizes have 3 files, and the remainder have only a single file. And it turns out that all 1410 of those are genuine duplicates - i.e. there are no cases of files which have the same size without actually being the same; therefore size is a very effective discriminator for photo files. Even better - running this simplified algorithm on my 16,000 sample takes about 20 seconds on my aging Macbook Pro. So I can indeed eliminate all those extra features in steps 2a, 4 and 5. Part 3 of this series will describe what I did for step 6 above - i.e. how to present this data to the user, how to make it easy to eliminate any duplicates found and how to not make it easy to inadvertently delete files you shouldn't. Part 4 will (probably) describe an app for removing uninteresting photos. And Part 5 will (perhaps) describe whether or how I found it necessary to improve the image viewer app described in part 1. The increase in average file size from 0.5 Mb to 24 Mb means that the time to transition from one photo to the next has gone from "feels instant" to "hmmm, feels fairly quick". I'll decide from using the app regularly over the next week or two whether "fairly quick" is good enough, or whether it's worth implementing pre-caching for the adjacent photo(s) to get back the "instant" feel. -- Alex. P.S. I *will* get these apps cleaned up and onto revOnline. Soon. Any day now. RSN. Promise :-) From bogdanoff at me.com Thu Aug 18 19:23:50 2016 From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2016 19:23:50 -0400 Subject: Searching text external to Livecode In-Reply-To: <0B43DC2D-3122-4D20-B9C5-C7521F13D015@me.com> References: <0B43DC2D-3122-4D20-B9C5-C7521F13D015@me.com> Message-ID: >> Livecode?s find command in LC8 is really, REALLY slow when you're doing multiple (thousands) of finds. >> use-livecode mailing list > I am doing a find char, finding a single character, and putting a space before or after it. It?s a continuous script to find possibly 3 to 4 thousand occurrences of about 6 different characters (that is total finds), looking for upper ASCII diacriticals. In LC 6.1.3 this took under a minute. In LC 8 it takes 69 minutes. ************ I?m doing this because the find word command misses words that are preceded or followed by one of these characters. So I?m putting space around them, then removing the space after the finding is done. This is part of a process to automatically link specified words to a glossary. Peter From selander at tkf.att.ne.jp Thu Aug 18 19:41:43 2016 From: selander at tkf.att.ne.jp (Tim Selander) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2016 08:41:43 +0900 Subject: The Joy of Removing Features - Part 2: Finding / removing duplicate files / photos. In-Reply-To: <256b7033-8046-cd99-0833-b10adc697ed8@tweedly.net> References: <256b7033-8046-cd99-0833-b10adc697ed8@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <57B647B7.1080703@tkf.att.ne.jp> Very enlightening. Thanks for taking the time to share this with us. Tim Selander Tokyo, Japan On 2016/08/19 8:20, Alex Tweedly wrote: > > Part 2 of a 4-part series on developing simple apps for photo management > and viewing. > > [ previously ... Part 1 described the justification and development of a > very simple photo viewing app ] > > The next issue to deal with is the run-away number of photos, and the > amount of disk space taken up by them. I strongly suspect that is at > least partly due to my casual (some would say "disorganized") approach > to managing the photos, and the multiple computers they originated from > and are kept on (my desktop, laptop, daughter's laptop, back-up disks, > safe copies on other external drives, USB drives previously used to > store / transfer folders of photos, etc.) > > So the next step is to find and eliminate (or at least reduce) > duplicated photos. Of course, I could simply Google "remove duplicate > photos mac" and follow some of the 382,000 resulting links - but where's > the fun in that :-) > > At least some of those apps do, or claim to do, amazing things - find > different resolution or different quality versions of the same photo, > etc. - but I don't feel a need to look for those; I just need, initially > at least, to find the simple, exact duplicates. To give some context, I > have been using a sample subset of 16,000 out of my approx 55,00 photos; > these are mostly low/med resolution (i.e. iPhone or old digital camera > JPEGs, between 200Kb and 1.5Mb each). However. my new camera is rather > more resource-hungry (JPEGs are 24Mb or so - hence the urgency to > actually implement some of these ideas that I have been kicking around > for a long time :-) > > I have a variety of schemes in mind to speed up the process, though each > of them needs to be verified for effectiveness, or indeed necessity. > > The basic outline *was* > > 1. walk through to collect all folder names (i.e. the complete tree(s) > within the folder(s) specified by the user) > > 2. visit each folder in turn to collect details of all (relevant) files > - with optimizations for folders/files that haven't changed since the > info was previously collected > > 3. partition the files by size; and then reduce the list of files to the > potential duplicates > > 4. further reduce by file signature (i.e. a small sample of say 12 bytes > from pre-specified locations) > > 5. get the md5hash of remaining files, and look for duplicates > > 6. present the data to the user (!?) > > However, some simple benchmarking suggested that this was unnecessarily > complicated - i.e. I can again remove features, even before they have > been specified or implemented. The task of detecting and avoiding > redundant work in step 2a is not terribly complicated - but it's > definitely the most brain-taxing part of the whole problem - and in any > case, won't apply to the first time the app is used. So that part can be > delayed at least until I find out how slow the process is - i.e. > hopefully forever. > > The need for using MD5 hashes, rather than simply comparing the files > completely is also questionable. It turns out that calculating an MD5 > hash of a file takes roughly 10x as long as comparing that file to > another identical one (i.e. the worst case for comparison - comparing to > a differing file would complete more quickly). So step 5 can also be > delayed (or avoided) until we determine how often it is likely we will > be matching larger sets of files. > > Similarly, step 4 can be delayed (or avoided) until we see how well the > file size works as a partition - and it turns out to do a good job. > > Of the 16,073 files, there are 14652 different sizes; of these, 1400 > sizes have 2 matching files while 10 sizes have 3 files, and the > remainder have only a single file. > > And it turns out that all 1410 of those are genuine duplicates - i.e. > there are no cases of files which have the same size without actually > being the same; therefore size is a very effective discriminator for > photo files. > Even better - running this simplified algorithm on my 16,000 sample > takes about 20 seconds on my aging Macbook Pro. So I can indeed > eliminate all those extra features in steps 2a, 4 and 5. > > Part 3 of this series will describe what I did for step 6 above - i.e. > how to present this data to the user, how to make it easy to eliminate > any duplicates found and how to not make it easy to inadvertently delete > files you shouldn't. > > Part 4 will (probably) describe an app for removing uninteresting photos. > > And Part 5 will (perhaps) describe whether or how I found it necessary > to improve the image viewer app described in part 1. The increase in > average file size from 0.5 Mb to 24 Mb means that the time to transition > from one photo to the next has gone from "feels instant" to "hmmm, feels > fairly quick". I'll decide from using the app regularly over the next > week or two whether "fairly quick" is good enough, or whether it's worth > implementing pre-caching for the adjacent photo(s) to get back the > "instant" feel. > > -- Alex. > P.S. I *will* get these apps cleaned up and onto revOnline. Soon. Any > day now. RSN. Promise :-) > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From revdev at pdslabs.net Fri Aug 19 00:04:50 2016 From: revdev at pdslabs.net (Phil Davis) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2016 21:04:50 -0700 Subject: The Joy of Removing Features - Part 2: Finding / removing duplicate files / photos. In-Reply-To: <57B647B7.1080703@tkf.att.ne.jp> References: <256b7033-8046-cd99-0833-b10adc697ed8@tweedly.net> <57B647B7.1080703@tkf.att.ne.jp> Message-ID: <62e4e3c9-a531-3272-3e9e-41e623255e76@pdslabs.net> I agree. This peek behind the curtain is a rare and very beneficial thing for the community. Thanks Alex! Phil Davis On 8/18/16 4:41 PM, Tim Selander wrote: > Very enlightening. Thanks for taking the time to share this with us. > > Tim Selander > Tokyo, Japan > > On 2016/08/19 8:20, Alex Tweedly wrote: >> >> Part 2 of a 4-part series on developing simple apps for photo management >> and viewing. >> >> [ previously ... Part 1 described the justification and development of a >> very simple photo viewing app ] >> >> The next issue to deal with is the run-away number of photos, and the >> amount of disk space taken up by them. I strongly suspect that is at >> least partly due to my casual (some would say "disorganized") approach >> to managing the photos, and the multiple computers they originated from >> and are kept on (my desktop, laptop, daughter's laptop, back-up disks, >> safe copies on other external drives, USB drives previously used to >> store / transfer folders of photos, etc.) >> >> So the next step is to find and eliminate (or at least reduce) >> duplicated photos. Of course, I could simply Google "remove duplicate >> photos mac" and follow some of the 382,000 resulting links - but where's >> the fun in that :-) >> >> At least some of those apps do, or claim to do, amazing things - find >> different resolution or different quality versions of the same photo, >> etc. - but I don't feel a need to look for those; I just need, initially >> at least, to find the simple, exact duplicates. To give some context, I >> have been using a sample subset of 16,000 out of my approx 55,00 photos; >> these are mostly low/med resolution (i.e. iPhone or old digital camera >> JPEGs, between 200Kb and 1.5Mb each). However. my new camera is rather >> more resource-hungry (JPEGs are 24Mb or so - hence the urgency to >> actually implement some of these ideas that I have been kicking around >> for a long time :-) >> >> I have a variety of schemes in mind to speed up the process, though each >> of them needs to be verified for effectiveness, or indeed necessity. >> >> The basic outline *was* >> >> 1. walk through to collect all folder names (i.e. the complete tree(s) >> within the folder(s) specified by the user) >> >> 2. visit each folder in turn to collect details of all (relevant) files >> - with optimizations for folders/files that haven't changed since the >> info was previously collected >> >> 3. partition the files by size; and then reduce the list of files to the >> potential duplicates >> >> 4. further reduce by file signature (i.e. a small sample of say 12 bytes >> from pre-specified locations) >> >> 5. get the md5hash of remaining files, and look for duplicates >> >> 6. present the data to the user (!?) >> >> However, some simple benchmarking suggested that this was unnecessarily >> complicated - i.e. I can again remove features, even before they have >> been specified or implemented. The task of detecting and avoiding >> redundant work in step 2a is not terribly complicated - but it's >> definitely the most brain-taxing part of the whole problem - and in any >> case, won't apply to the first time the app is used. So that part can be >> delayed at least until I find out how slow the process is - i.e. >> hopefully forever. >> >> The need for using MD5 hashes, rather than simply comparing the files >> completely is also questionable. It turns out that calculating an MD5 >> hash of a file takes roughly 10x as long as comparing that file to >> another identical one (i.e. the worst case for comparison - comparing to >> a differing file would complete more quickly). So step 5 can also be >> delayed (or avoided) until we determine how often it is likely we will >> be matching larger sets of files. >> >> Similarly, step 4 can be delayed (or avoided) until we see how well the >> file size works as a partition - and it turns out to do a good job. >> >> Of the 16,073 files, there are 14652 different sizes; of these, 1400 >> sizes have 2 matching files while 10 sizes have 3 files, and the >> remainder have only a single file. >> >> And it turns out that all 1410 of those are genuine duplicates - i.e. >> there are no cases of files which have the same size without actually >> being the same; therefore size is a very effective discriminator for >> photo files. >> Even better - running this simplified algorithm on my 16,000 sample >> takes about 20 seconds on my aging Macbook Pro. So I can indeed >> eliminate all those extra features in steps 2a, 4 and 5. >> >> Part 3 of this series will describe what I did for step 6 above - i.e. >> how to present this data to the user, how to make it easy to eliminate >> any duplicates found and how to not make it easy to inadvertently delete >> files you shouldn't. >> >> Part 4 will (probably) describe an app for removing uninteresting >> photos. >> >> And Part 5 will (perhaps) describe whether or how I found it necessary >> to improve the image viewer app described in part 1. The increase in >> average file size from 0.5 Mb to 24 Mb means that the time to transition >> from one photo to the next has gone from "feels instant" to "hmmm, feels >> fairly quick". I'll decide from using the app regularly over the next >> week or two whether "fairly quick" is good enough, or whether it's worth >> implementing pre-caching for the adjacent photo(s) to get back the >> "instant" feel. >> >> -- Alex. >> P.S. I *will* get these apps cleaned up and onto revOnline. Soon. Any >> day now. RSN. Promise :-) >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Phil Davis From iphonelagi at gmail.com Fri Aug 19 02:28:32 2016 From: iphonelagi at gmail.com (Iphonelagi) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2016 07:28:32 +0100 Subject: loadStack message use cases In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <26798473-7170-4DD5-9EF5-93DDF12DD9AB@gmail.com> Hi monte I'm sure we would find a use case for it as we have/had that in visual foxpro where each container form or control object had an init event which allowed setting Clours and code dynamically on creation ... Very powerful If your in the system how about adding an. Init event as per the docs below from the vfp documentation " For form sets and other container objects, the Init events for all the contained objects are triggered before the container's Init event, so you can access the contained objects within the container's Init event. The Init event for each contained object occurs in the order it was added to the container object. To prevent a control from being created, return false (.F.) from the Init event. The Destroy event will not be triggered. For example, the following code returns false (.F.) if the Invoice table is not available:" I would be able to then be able to create in effect a data binding system with much less code simulating the data environment of vfp on creation/init of the stack if it doesn't slow things down too much just put it in ... Simples! ? I have programmed round it so far but it would be a brilliant addition Regards Lagi Sent from my iPhone > On 18 Aug 2016, at 22:35, Monte Goulding wrote: > > Hi Folks > > I?m wondering if anyone with interest could post use cases they can think of for a loadStack message to the following bug report. This would be a message sent to a stack before preOpeStack when the stack is first loaded into memory. It?s possible that the only use cases are for the IDE. > > http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18223 > > Cheers > > Monte > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From me at jerrydaniels.com Fri Aug 19 02:33:23 2016 From: me at jerrydaniels.com (me at jerrydaniels.com) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2016 01:33:23 -0500 Subject: loadStack message use cases In-Reply-To: <26798473-7170-4DD5-9EF5-93DDF12DD9AB@gmail.com> References: <26798473-7170-4DD5-9EF5-93DDF12DD9AB@gmail.com> Message-ID: <679852d6-6d2c-4bfc-bf72-ae8835dfd046@Spark> Agree. Data binding is a good use case for me as well. Best, jerry at botz.live On Aug 19, 2016, 1:29 AM -0500, Iphonelagi , wrote: > Hi monte > > I'm sure we would find a use case for it as we have/had that in visual foxpro where each container form or control object had an init event which allowed setting Clours and code dynamically on creation ... Very powerful > If your in the system how about adding an. Init event as per the docs below from the vfp documentation > " > For form sets and other container objects, the Init events for all the contained objects are triggered before the container's Init event, so you can access the contained objects within the container's Init event. The Init event for each contained object occurs in the order it was added to the container object. > To prevent a control from being created, return false (.F.) from the Init event. The Destroy event will not be triggered. For example, the following code returns false (.F.) if the Invoice table is not available:" > I would be able to then be able to create in effect a data binding system with much less code simulating the data environment of vfp on creation/init of the stack if it doesn't slow things down too much just put it in ... Simples! ? > I have programmed round it so far but it would be a brilliant addition > Regards Lagi > Sent from my iPhone > > > On 18 Aug 2016, at 22:35, Monte Goulding wrote: > > > > Hi Folks > > > > I?m wondering if anyone with interest could post use cases they can think of for a loadStack message to the following bug report. This would be a message sent to a stack before preOpeStack when the stack is first loaded into memory. It?s possible that the only use cases are for the IDE. > > > > http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18223 > > > Cheers > > > > Monte > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From monte at appisle.net Fri Aug 19 02:34:56 2016 From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2016 16:34:56 +1000 Subject: loadStack message use cases In-Reply-To: <26798473-7170-4DD5-9EF5-93DDF12DD9AB@gmail.com> References: <26798473-7170-4DD5-9EF5-93DDF12DD9AB@gmail.com> Message-ID: <0ACD34EE-9B23-4998-9767-009BF63A57C9@appisle.net> The solution for that would be extending preOpenControl, openControl and closeControl to all object types instead of just groups. Cheers Monte Sent from my iPhone > On 19 Aug 2016, at 4:28 PM, Iphonelagi wrote: > > Hi monte > > I'm sure we would find a use case for it as we have/had that in visual foxpro where each container form or control object had an init event which allowed setting Clours and code dynamically on creation ... Very powerful > If your in the system how about adding an. Init event as per the docs below from the vfp documentation > " > For form sets and other container objects, the Init events for all the contained objects are triggered before the container's Init event, so you can access the contained objects within the container's Init event. The Init event for each contained object occurs in the order it was added to the container object. > To prevent a control from being created, return false (.F.) from the Init event. The Destroy event will not be triggered. For example, the following code returns false (.F.) if the Invoice table is not available:" > I would be able to then be able to create in effect a data binding system with much less code simulating the data environment of vfp on creation/init of the stack if it doesn't slow things down too much just put it in ... Simples! ? > I have programmed round it so far but it would be a brilliant addition > Regards Lagi > Sent from my iPhone > >> On 18 Aug 2016, at 22:35, Monte Goulding wrote: >> >> Hi Folks >> >> I?m wondering if anyone with interest could post use cases they can think of for a loadStack message to the following bug report. This would be a message sent to a stack before preOpeStack when the stack is first loaded into memory. It?s possible that the only use cases are for the IDE. >> >> http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18223 >> >> Cheers >> >> Monte >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From james at thehales.id.au Fri Aug 19 03:22:41 2016 From: james at thehales.id.au (James Hale) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2016 17:22:41 +1000 Subject: Searching text external to Livecode Message-ID: <760BE0A1-A2A3-4E15-9823-5423D44E6608@thehales.id.au> Richard asked > Maybe the simplest solution for somewhat large collections would be the > free-text indexing built into SQLite. Anyone here know if we have a > means of using that from within LC? Yes and no. The Full text search extension to SQLite is indeed in the current compilation and is really very good. Index creation doesn't take much time and the actual searching very very fast. Unfortunately there was mention of Chinese. While SQLite itself is Unicode compliant the FTS4 module isn't unless the binary is compiled with the Unicode library. It isn't. This is not on the immediate horizon. The way things currently are, it would entail adding, in effect a second Unicode library. There was some discussion on the possibility of exposing the already included Unicode library (so as to make it available to SQLite) but this is not at all a priority. I James From ali.lloyd at livecode.com Fri Aug 19 05:00:33 2016 From: ali.lloyd at livecode.com (Ali Lloyd) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2016 09:00:33 +0000 Subject: Searching text external to Livecode In-Reply-To: <760BE0A1-A2A3-4E15-9823-5423D44E6608@thehales.id.au> References: <760BE0A1-A2A3-4E15-9823-5423D44E6608@thehales.id.au> Message-ID: If you have or could make a sample stack that demonstrates this slowdown, it would be useful for us to have a look at. On Fri, Aug 19, 2016 at 12:23 AM Peter Bogdanoff wrote: > >> Livecode?s find command in LC8 is really, REALLY slow when you're doing > multiple (thousands) of finds. > > >> use-livecode mailing list > > > > I am doing a find char, finding a single character, and putting a space > before or after it. It?s a continuous script to find possibly 3 to 4 > thousand occurrences of about 6 different characters (that is total finds), > looking for upper ASCII diacriticals. > > In LC 6.1.3 this took under a minute. In LC 8 it takes 69 minutes. > > > On Fri, Aug 19, 2016 at 8:22 AM James Hale wrote: > Richard asked > > Maybe the simplest solution for somewhat large collections would be the > > free-text indexing built into SQLite. Anyone here know if we have a > > means of using that from within LC? > > > Yes and no. > The Full text search extension to SQLite is indeed in the current > compilation and is really very good. Index creation doesn't take much time > and the actual searching very very fast. > Unfortunately there was mention of Chinese. > While SQLite itself is Unicode compliant the FTS4 module isn't unless the > binary is compiled with the Unicode library. It isn't. This is not on the > immediate horizon. The way things currently are, it would entail adding, in > effect a second Unicode library. There was some discussion on the > possibility of exposing the already included Unicode library (so as to make > it available to SQLite) but this is not at all a priority. > I > James > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From heather at livecode.com Fri Aug 19 07:33:48 2016 From: heather at livecode.com (Heather Laine) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2016 12:33:48 +0100 Subject: Great Conference Photos Message-ID: <9137A2AA-5ABC-4845-B106-69F9926649FF@livecode.com> Dear List Folks, Panos has a lovely new blog post up all about the conference, with some beautiful photos courtesy of Ben Beaumont. Go check it out! https://livecode.com/my-first-livecode-conference/ Regards, Heather Heather Laine Customer Services Manager LiveCode Ltd www.livecode.com From iphonelagi at gmail.com Fri Aug 19 11:16:01 2016 From: iphonelagi at gmail.com (Lagi Pittas) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2016 16:16:01 +0100 Subject: loadStack message use cases In-Reply-To: <0ACD34EE-9B23-4998-9767-009BF63A57C9@appisle.net> References: <26798473-7170-4DD5-9EF5-93DDF12DD9AB@gmail.com> <0ACD34EE-9B23-4998-9767-009BF63A57C9@appisle.net> Message-ID: Well I'll go to the foot of our stairs! (said in a Graham Chapman Yorkshire accent) I never even thought to look if it was there, otherwise I would have used it. In the old days we would have an 800 page dead trees command / events properties book which i would go through in a day or 2 just so I would know what was available - just in case, I havent seen Anyway does that mean if I put an an opencontrol method/command on a stack or card or group it will be fired by each control in succession if I don't have an opencontrol within the control and use "the target" as usual to see which one? This opens up many possibilities if so .... Thanks again. Lagi p.s. I just did a test stack and it doesn't work the way I thought --- the event only goes to a group, it seems opencontrol and preopencontrol are not part of the methods of controls but groups. This means we have to do a repeat loop of each control in the group to set propertiesetc if you need to so maybe this should be extended to objects.? On 19 August 2016 at 07:34, Monte Goulding wrote: > The solution for that would be extending preOpenControl, openControl and > closeControl to all object types instead of just groups. > > Cheers > > Monte > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On 19 Aug 2016, at 4:28 PM, Iphonelagi wrote: > > > > Hi monte > > > > I'm sure we would find a use case for it as we have/had that in visual > foxpro where each container form or control object had an init event which > allowed setting Clours and code dynamically on creation ... Very powerful > > If your in the system how about adding an. Init event as per the docs > below from the vfp documentation > > " > > For form sets and other container objects, the Init events for all the > contained objects are triggered before the container's Init event, so you > can access the contained objects within the container's Init event. The > Init event for each contained object occurs in the order it was added to > the container object. > > To prevent a control from being created, return false (.F.) from the > Init event. The Destroy event will not be triggered. For example, the > following code returns false (.F.) if the Invoice table is not available:" > > I would be able to then be able to create in effect a data binding > system with much less code simulating the data environment of vfp on > creation/init of the stack if it doesn't slow things down too much just put > it in ... Simples! ? > > I have programmed round it so far but it would be a brilliant addition > > Regards Lagi > > Sent from my iPhone > > > >> On 18 Aug 2016, at 22:35, Monte Goulding wrote: > >> > >> Hi Folks > >> > >> I?m wondering if anyone with interest could post use cases they can > think of for a loadStack message to the following bug report. This would be > a message sent to a stack before preOpeStack when the stack is first loaded > into memory. It?s possible that the only use cases are for the IDE. > >> > >> http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18223 < > http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18223> > >> > >> Cheers > >> > >> Monte > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Fri Aug 19 12:15:33 2016 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2016 09:15:33 -0700 Subject: loadStack message use cases In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0b13df42-a4c1-b5dd-990a-9ddb1fd18bea@fourthworld.com> Lagi Pittas wrote: > I just did a test stack and it doesn't work the way I thought --- > the event only goes to a group, it seems opencontrol and > preopencontrol are not part of the methods of controls but groups. > This means we have to do a repeat loop of each control in the group > to set propertiesetc if you need to so maybe this should be extended > to objects.? The current design strikes what seems to be a good balance between too few messages and too many. On the one hand, messages are of course the life blood of event-driven systems; without them data doesn't flow between the various things it needs to, and the software organism suffers. But on the other hand, messages take time and memory, so ideally we'd have as few of them at any given time as we truly need to get a given task done. Currently we have: preOpenStack (card) preOpenBackground (each background group on the card) preOpenCard (card) preOpenControl (each group on the card) openStack (card) openBackground (each background group on the card) openCard (card) openControl (each group on the card) Each needs to be packaged up and sent through the message path, and collectively they offer tremendous flexibility with scoping. The preOpenControl and openControl messages are sent only to groups because they can be custom controls, which may in some cases require special handling not normally easy to account for with the other *open* messages. The DataGrid is a good example here, because not only does it make good use of those messages from a centralized behavior script the developer using it needs to think about, but moreover it can contain hundreds or potentially thousands of individual controls. If the preOpenControl and openControl messages were sent to every control, the impact on card opening could be staggering, limited in performance by the number of controls on the card. In those cases where we have a control or two that isn't a group and needs initializing when opened, handling that in any of the existing messages is a good option. And since most objects on a card won't require initialization, this leaves the impact of card loading in the hands of the developer, able to choose when and what gets handled when a card is loaded. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From benr_mc at cogapp.com Fri Aug 19 13:18:17 2016 From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2016 18:18:17 +0100 Subject: Activating old versions of LiveCode Message-ID: <80390b2b-0865-25fc-7571-4a64c4fe6005@cogapp.com> I'm trying to install an old version of LiveCode (4.x or 5.x). So far I've tried with 5.5.5: downloaded, ran installer, however it fails on activation. I'm using the same account (and I'm pretty sure same password) as I was a few years ago when that was the current version and I had a current account. Should this still work? TIA, Ben From benr_mc at cogapp.com Fri Aug 19 13:31:11 2016 From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2016 18:31:11 +0100 Subject: Activating old versions of LiveCode In-Reply-To: <80390b2b-0865-25fc-7571-4a64c4fe6005@cogapp.com> References: <80390b2b-0865-25fc-7571-4a64c4fe6005@cogapp.com> Message-ID: <1ead22a5-d40b-f724-e9c8-34064eba5d0f@cogapp.com> Scratch that - problem (at least initial one) was I suspect that it was trying to access the license server at an old address. Then there was a secondary problem with getting an offline activation file. But I persisted, and I won! Apologies for the noise, Ben On 19/08/2016 18:18, Ben Rubinstein wrote: > I'm trying to install an old version of LiveCode (4.x or 5.x). So far I've > tried with 5.5.5: downloaded, ran installer, however it fails on activation. > > I'm using the same account (and I'm pretty sure same password) as I was a few > years ago when that was the current version and I had a current account. > > Should this still work? > > TIA, > > Ben From scott at tactilemedia.com Fri Aug 19 13:41:53 2016 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2016 10:41:53 -0700 Subject: San Diego Conference Videos? Message-ID: Does anyone know where the session videos for the 2014 San Diego LiveCode conference can be found? I'm pretty sure they used to be available under user accounts at LiveCode.com but I'm not seeing anything there. Thanks & Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design From mark at livecode.com Fri Aug 19 13:42:31 2016 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2016 19:42:31 +0200 Subject: Garbage collection (crashing on Windows) In-Reply-To: <58904964-04d1-62de-6ffb-c6fd464eb974@cogapp.com> References: <58904964-04d1-62de-6ffb-c6fd464eb974@cogapp.com> Message-ID: <2e32b41260a5c4d38c983334892b4a8f@livecode.com> Hi Ben, When I got to the end of this email I remembered something quite pertinent - you mentioned that the limit you were hitting was 2Gb... One thing to check is that the install of Windows you are running on cannot be poked to actually raise this limit to 3Gb: https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/askperf/2007/03/23/memory-management-demystifying-3gb/ Perhaps other's with more insider Windows knowledge can chip in there. It will depend on the machine, the version of Windows and probably lots of other factors. Given that 'hardware is cheap' compared to rewriting software - if the windows install being used currently does not use that 'trick', and can be, you'll probably find you get a fair bit of mileage with a bit of computer configuration - rather than coding! Assuming that cannot be done then... On 2016-08-17 19:52, Ben Rubinstein wrote: > Please refresh my memory: is there any way to cause/allow garbage to > be collected without ending all script running? LiveCode doesn't use what is generally referred to as 'garbage collection' as it generally frees 'things' up as soon as they are no longer referenced. Now I say 'generally' because things fall into two classes: 1) Values (strings, arrays, data, numbers) 2) Objects (stacks, cards, buttons etc.) I'll deal with Objects first: Objects are deleted as soon as they can be relative to the requirements of the engine. We actually changed this mechanism to make it less conservative in 6.7.11, 7.1.4 and 8.0 onwards. Previously, deleted objects wouldn't get actually freed until the root event loop runs (i.e. when there is no script running); now they will generally get freed much closer to when they are deleted, especially if they were created 'at the same level or above' where the object is deleted. e.g. on foo create control bar delete control bar end foo Here the delete will free the object immediately (as the engine knows that it cannot have any internal references to it internally - in particular on the C stack). It sounds like the problem you are having (assuming you aren't creating and deleting lots of controls) is to do with values and so... Values are freed *as soon as* there is no longer any reference to them. In 6.7 and before that would be whenever a variable is changed (the old value was released immediately), or whenever the variable goes out of scope (e.g. locals in a handler get released when the handler ends, script locals are released when the object is deleted). In 7.0+ this happens as soon as there are no variables referencing the same instance of the value. e.g. (1) local tVariable1, tVariable2 (2) put "foo" & "bar" into tVariable1 (3) put tVariable1 into tVariable2 (4) put empty into tVariable1 After step (3), tVariable1 and tVariable2 will reference the same value. At step (4) the reference tVariable1 holds will be removed, but the value will not be deleted (from memory) until tVariable2 changes, or goes out of scope. The general mechanism is that values are shared when copied into different variables, and are only copied when a variable is mutated. e.g. (1) local tVariable1, tVariable2 (2) put "foo" & "bar" into tVariable1 (3) put tVariable1 into tVariable2 (4) put "baz" after tVariable2 (5) put empty into tVariable1 Here, at step (4), the value referenced by tVariable2 will be copied (and so tVariable1 and tVariable2 will no longer reference the same value), and then changed. This means that at step (5) the value previously referenced by tVariable1 *will* be freed, because it is not shared with tVariable2 (obviously - because tVariable2 is no longer the same value!). The reason I was being so paedagogic in the above is that it opens an opportunity for you to potentially reduce the memory footprint of your dataset (which sounds like it is what is causing the problem) by doing some pre-processing and exploiting the fact that values are not copied until they are modified. Of course, I don't know what the structure of the data you are processing is - so I'm going to assume you are loading in lots of text files and breaking them up into pieces, presumably storing in arrays with the individual array elements being numbers and strings. In this case there are a few interesting things to note about the engine's implementation of values... Array keys are *always* shared (up to case). When you do: put tElement into tArray[tKey] The engine first 'uniques' tKey - this means it ensures that there is only one copy of tKey (up to case differences) in memory. So - for every single array in memory which contains a key "foo", the value representing the key "foo" will not be copied, just referenced from all the arrays. Note that "foo" and "Foo", whilst referencing the same value (unless caseSensitive is true), will be stored in memory as different values which leads to memory optimization tip 1: When constructing arrays from external data, where the case of the key is irrelevant use: put X into tArray[toLower(Y)] -- or toUpper (whichever you prefer) For the values bound to by keys, the story is different. If you do: put myString & "1" into tArray["foo"] put myString & "1 into tArray["bar"] Then the two values of the keys "foo" and "bar" *will be different*. This is because they have been constructed differently. You can optimize this for memory size by using another array to 'index' your string values: command shareAndStoreKey @xArray, pKey, pValue set the caseSensitive to true -- this is assuming your values are sensitive to case if pValue is not among the keys of sValueCache then put pValue into sValueCache[pValue] end if put sValueCache[pValue] into xArray[pKey] end command After you have processed all your arrays like this, and 'put empty into sValueCache' - all string elements in your arrays which are case-sensitively the same will share the same value. Of course, you can play the same trick with arrays - although it is a little more tricky, admittedly. So, anyway, before anyone asks 'why doesn't the engine just do this?' (particularly since it does so for array keys) then the answer is performance. It is costly to work out which values (which are computed dynamically, or are substrings of another string in different places) are actually the same - thus you'd end up saving memory but costing performance if the engine uniqued *everything*. So, the next question is probably going to be, 'why does the engine do it for array keys then?' and the answer here is because string comparison is slow - case-less string comparison more so. When you lookup a key in an associative array, it might well take multiple string comparisons to find. By 'uniquing' the strings used in array keys, after the engine has processed the lookup request it is a constant time operation to do each of these comparisons to find the actual element you want. On balance, this means you save time - assuming that you are accessing your arrays much more frequently than building them - which is usually the case. Now, all the above I say with caution - the engine may change how it works in the future. It might become more 'clever' in some cases, and less 'clever' in others; thus you should only go as far to try and optimize your code for memory footprint (if you can afford the cost of the pre-processing) if YOU REALLY NEED TO. Clearly, in your (Ben's) case you really do - you are hitting the windows 2Gb process limit at the moment, and it sounds like it is a batch process running unattended so an initial 'memory miminization process' run on the dataset is probably a cost you can afford to pay. Anyway, without more details of what you are needing to do the above might be completely useless... Just my 2 pence. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mark at livecode.com Fri Aug 19 13:44:09 2016 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2016 19:44:09 +0200 Subject: Activating old versions of LiveCode In-Reply-To: <1ead22a5-d40b-f724-e9c8-34064eba5d0f@cogapp.com> References: <80390b2b-0865-25fc-7571-4a64c4fe6005@cogapp.com> <1ead22a5-d40b-f724-e9c8-34064eba5d0f@cogapp.com> Message-ID: On 2016-08-19 19:31, Ben Rubinstein wrote: > Scratch that - problem (at least initial one) was I suspect that it > was trying to access the license server at an old address. Then there > was a secondary problem with getting an offline activation file. But I > persisted, and I won! Ah - yes - for security reasons we had to move our licensing server to https and stop it accepting http connections. This means that older versions can only be activated by downloading an offline activation file - I'm glad you got it working! Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mark at canelasoftware.com Fri Aug 19 13:55:28 2016 From: mark at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2016 10:55:28 -0700 Subject: San Diego Conference Videos? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6D97FABB-829A-4907-A44E-105C397491B3@canelasoftware.com> > On Aug 19, 2016, at 10:41 AM, Scott Rossi wrote: > > Does anyone know where the session videos for the 2014 San Diego LiveCode > conference can be found? I'm pretty sure they used to be available under > user accounts at LiveCode.com but I'm not seeing anything there. Hi Scott, I found in my account under: https://livecode.com/account/webinars Best regards, Mark Talluto livecloud.io canelasoftware.com From scott at tactilemedia.com Fri Aug 19 14:01:01 2016 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2016 11:01:01 -0700 Subject: San Diego Conference Videos? In-Reply-To: <6D97FABB-829A-4907-A44E-105C397491B3@canelasoftware.com> References: <6D97FABB-829A-4907-A44E-105C397491B3@canelasoftware.com> Message-ID: Hmmm -- nothing from 2014 under my account. Guess I'll write to support. Thanks & Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design On 8/19/16, 10:55 AM, "use-livecode on behalf of Mark Talluto" wrote: >> On Aug 19, 2016, at 10:41 AM, Scott Rossi >>wrote: >> >> Does anyone know where the session videos for the 2014 San Diego >>LiveCode >> conference can be found? I'm pretty sure they used to be available under >> user accounts at LiveCode.com but I'm not seeing anything there. > >Hi Scott, > >I found in my account under: https://livecode.com/account/webinars > >Best regards, > >Mark Talluto >livecloud.io >canelasoftware.com > > > > >_______________________________________________ >use-livecode mailing list >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mark at canelasoftware.com Fri Aug 19 14:04:52 2016 From: mark at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2016 11:04:52 -0700 Subject: San Diego Conference Videos? In-Reply-To: References: <6D97FABB-829A-4907-A44E-105C397491B3@canelasoftware.com> Message-ID: > On Aug 19, 2016, at 11:01 AM, Scott Rossi wrote: > > Hmmm -- nothing from 2014 under my account. Guess I'll write to support. I just downloaded a few and now realize that these are not what you are looking for. These are based on Todds webinar. While in Scotland, I did bring this up with Heather and she told me that they are supposed to be there. This is the reason I jumped on this so quickly. I was wrong. Bowing my head in shame. Sorry about that. Best regards, Mark Talluto livecloud.io canelasoftware.com From scott at tactilemedia.com Fri Aug 19 14:07:06 2016 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2016 11:07:06 -0700 Subject: San Diego Conference Videos? In-Reply-To: References: <6D97FABB-829A-4907-A44E-105C397491B3@canelasoftware.com> Message-ID: No worries, I've got plenty of shame on my head, brother :-) Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design On 8/19/16, 11:04 AM, "use-livecode on behalf of Mark Talluto" wrote: > >> On Aug 19, 2016, at 11:01 AM, Scott Rossi >>wrote: >> >> Hmmm -- nothing from 2014 under my account. Guess I'll write to >>support. > >I just downloaded a few and now realize that these are not what you are >looking for. These are based on Todds webinar. > >While in Scotland, I did bring this up with Heather and she told me that >they are supposed to be there. This is the reason I jumped on this so >quickly. I was wrong. Bowing my head in shame. Sorry about that. > >Best regards, > >Mark Talluto >livecloud.io >canelasoftware.com > > > > >_______________________________________________ >use-livecode mailing list >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Fri Aug 19 14:19:59 2016 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2016 21:19:59 +0300 Subject: Activating old versions of LiveCode In-Reply-To: <80390b2b-0865-25fc-7571-4a64c4fe6005@cogapp.com> References: <80390b2b-0865-25fc-7571-4a64c4fe6005@cogapp.com> Message-ID: You may find that it won't behave with the current operating system you are using. Richmond. On 19.08.2016 20:18, Ben Rubinstein wrote: > I'm trying to install an old version of LiveCode (4.x or 5.x). So far > I've tried with 5.5.5: downloaded, ran installer, however it fails on > activation. > > I'm using the same account (and I'm pretty sure same password) as I > was a few years ago when that was the current version and I had a > current account. > > Should this still work? > > TIA, > > Ben > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mark at canelasoftware.com Fri Aug 19 14:37:02 2016 From: mark at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2016 11:37:02 -0700 Subject: Garbage collection (crashing on Windows) In-Reply-To: <2e32b41260a5c4d38c983334892b4a8f@livecode.com> References: <58904964-04d1-62de-6ffb-c6fd464eb974@cogapp.com> <2e32b41260a5c4d38c983334892b4a8f@livecode.com> Message-ID: <0E5C34FE-12D0-4FC0-8A79-6668CFE46F51@canelasoftware.com> > On Aug 19, 2016, at 10:42 AM, Mark Waddingham wrote: > > command shareAndStoreKey @xArray, pKey, pValue > set the caseSensitive to true -- this is assuming your values are sensitive to case > if pValue is not among the keys of sValueCache then > put pValue into sValueCache[pValue] > end if > put sValueCache[pValue] into xArray[pKey] > end command Hi Mark, We have been doing: put empty into sValueCache[pValue] --as an optimization. How does this compare to: put pValue into sValueCache[pValue] --in terms of performance? Best regards, Mark Talluto livecloud.io canelasoftware.com From mark at livecode.com Fri Aug 19 15:22:31 2016 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2016 20:22:31 +0100 Subject: Garbage collection (crashing on Windows) In-Reply-To: <0E5C34FE-12D0-4FC0-8A79-6668CFE46F51@canelasoftware.com> References: <58904964-04d1-62de-6ffb-c6fd464eb974@cogapp.com> <2e32b41260a5c4d38c983334892b4a8f@livecode.com> <0E5C34FE-12D0-4FC0-8A79-6668CFE46F51@canelasoftware.com> Message-ID: <6F62E667-2FEA-4CF8-8F0B-9554A5D18936@livecode.com> With the current implementation of the engine, the only reason using empty is faster than using pValue is because the latter requires a variable lookup, the former is a constant. What are you using sValueCache for? Sent from my iPhone > On 19 Aug 2016, at 19:37, Mark Talluto wrote: > > >> On Aug 19, 2016, at 10:42 AM, Mark Waddingham wrote: >> >> command shareAndStoreKey @xArray, pKey, pValue >> set the caseSensitive to true -- this is assuming your values are sensitive to case >> if pValue is not among the keys of sValueCache then >> put pValue into sValueCache[pValue] >> end if >> put sValueCache[pValue] into xArray[pKey] >> end command > > > Hi Mark, > > We have been doing: > put empty into sValueCache[pValue] --as an optimization. > > How does this compare to: > put pValue into sValueCache[pValue] --in terms of performance? > > > Best regards, > > Mark Talluto > livecloud.io > canelasoftware.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Fri Aug 19 16:02:06 2016 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2016 16:02:06 -0400 Subject: Mobile scroller In-Reply-To: <6F62E667-2FEA-4CF8-8F0B-9554A5D18936@livecode.com> References: <58904964-04d1-62de-6ffb-c6fd464eb974@cogapp.com> <2e32b41260a5c4d38c983334892b4a8f@livecode.com> <0E5C34FE-12D0-4FC0-8A79-6668CFE46F51@canelasoftware.com> <6F62E667-2FEA-4CF8-8F0B-9554A5D18936@livecode.com> Message-ID: <007b01d1fa54$8fd123e0$af736ba0$@net> OK Batman, riddle me this... How can a mobile scroller be in layer behind a field control? I see the scroller getting created and do its usual short flash of the scroll indicators but you can't use it but instead it sends mouseup to the field that goes to another card that has scrolling results and that scroller works perfect on the new card. Scrollers on other cards also work perfect. I've used the mobile scroller many many times with no problems. I moved the scroller rect below the field for a test and it is on top of all the other controls and scrolls the field above as expected. This happens only on Android. iOS works as expected. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Fri Aug 19 17:40:30 2016 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (mwieder) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2016 14:40:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Activating old versions of LiveCode In-Reply-To: References: <80390b2b-0865-25fc-7571-4a64c4fe6005@cogapp.com> <1ead22a5-d40b-f724-e9c8-34064eba5d0f@cogapp.com> Message-ID: <1471642830997-4707622.post@n4.nabble.com> I generated and downloaded a new 4.6.4 license file, and on trying to use the license file on OSX I get the message "the provided license is no longer valid". ----- -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Activating-old-versions-of-LiveCode-tp4707609p4707622.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Aug 19 18:23:09 2016 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2016 22:23:09 +0000 Subject: Activating old versions of LiveCode In-Reply-To: <80390b2b-0865-25fc-7571-4a64c4fe6005@cogapp.com> References: <80390b2b-0865-25fc-7571-4a64c4fe6005@cogapp.com> Message-ID: <45DD86A7-82A4-421F-8A8A-E754A42B4C75@iotecdigital.com> In the words of Balthasar, when he finally realized that Captian Jason Nesmith had been engaging in a massive deception, and that their whole society was based upon a collosal farce, "But... WHY???!?" Bob S > On Aug 19, 2016, at 10:18 , Ben Rubinstein wrote: > > I'm trying to install an old version of LiveCode (4.x or 5.x). So far I've tried with 5.5.5: downloaded, ran installer, however it fails on activation. > > I'm using the same account (and I'm pretty sure same password) as I was a few years ago when that was the current version and I had a current account. > > Should this still work? > > TIA, > > Ben > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Fri Aug 19 18:39:15 2016 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (mwieder) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2016 15:39:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Garbage collection (crashing on Windows) In-Reply-To: <2e32b41260a5c4d38c983334892b4a8f@livecode.com> References: <58904964-04d1-62de-6ffb-c6fd464eb974@cogapp.com> <2e32b41260a5c4d38c983334892b4a8f@livecode.com> Message-ID: <1471646355825-4707624.post@n4.nabble.com> Ah, the wonders of paged memory. ----- -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Garbage-collection-crashing-on-Windows-tp4707560p4707624.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From mark at canelasoftware.com Fri Aug 19 19:07:09 2016 From: mark at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2016 16:07:09 -0700 Subject: Garbage collection (crashing on Windows) In-Reply-To: <6F62E667-2FEA-4CF8-8F0B-9554A5D18936@livecode.com> References: <58904964-04d1-62de-6ffb-c6fd464eb974@cogapp.com> <2e32b41260a5c4d38c983334892b4a8f@livecode.com> <0E5C34FE-12D0-4FC0-8A79-6668CFE46F51@canelasoftware.com> <6F62E667-2FEA-4CF8-8F0B-9554A5D18936@livecode.com> Message-ID: <90918947-2ECC-4732-BA0B-022D41113E86@canelasoftware.com> I do not remember how much of a performance boost we got from manipulating long lists this way, but if memory serves, it was quite beneficial. This code sample is just something I made up on the fly. Hopefully it demonstrates the value of this method. command createArray local tListOfRecordIDs, tTableID put fld "recordID data" into tListOfRecordIDs put uuid() into tTableID --FOUND IT FASTER TO WALK THROUGH LONG LISTS --WHEN WE PUT THEM IN AN ARRAY LIKE THIS --ONCE THE ARRAY IS MADE, IT WILL BE USED MANY TIMES OVER --NEGATING THE COST OF MAKING THIS ARRAY repeat for each line xRecordID in tListOfRecordIDs put empty into tArrayA[tTableID][xRecordID] end repeat processArray tArrayA end createArray command processArray @rArrayA put the keys of rArrayA into tTableID --WALK THROUGH ARRAY LIST repeat for each key xRecordID in rArrayA[tTableID] --do something with xRecordID here --we might modify something in this list end repeat --WALK THROUGH ARRAY LIST repeat for each key xRecordID in rArrayA[tTableID] --do something with this modified list from previous repeat end repeat end processArray -Mark > On Aug 19, 2016, at 12:22 PM, Mark Waddingham wrote: > > With the current implementation of the engine, the only reason using empty is faster than using pValue is because the latter requires a variable lookup, the former is a constant. > > What are you using sValueCache for? > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On 19 Aug 2016, at 19:37, Mark Talluto wrote: >> >> >>> On Aug 19, 2016, at 10:42 AM, Mark Waddingham wrote: >>> >>> command shareAndStoreKey @xArray, pKey, pValue >>> set the caseSensitive to true -- this is assuming your values are sensitive to case >>> if pValue is not among the keys of sValueCache then >>> put pValue into sValueCache[pValue] >>> end if >>> put sValueCache[pValue] into xArray[pKey] >>> end command >> >> >> Hi Mark, >> >> We have been doing: >> put empty into sValueCache[pValue] --as an optimization. >> >> How does this compare to: >> put pValue into sValueCache[pValue] --in terms of performance? >> >> >> Best regards, >> >> Mark Talluto >> livecloud.io >> canelasoftware.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bogdanoff at me.com Fri Aug 19 20:00:24 2016 From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2016 20:00:24 -0400 Subject: Activating old versions of LiveCode In-Reply-To: <1471642830997-4707622.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <80390b2b-0865-25fc-7571-4a64c4fe6005@cogapp.com> <1ead22a5-d40b-f724-e9c8-34064eba5d0f@cogapp.com> <1471642830997-4707622.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <52D23D30-345A-4105-B3B5-BC071247838F@me.com> You could try?look around, can you form some sort of rudimentary lathe? > On Aug 19, 2016, at 5:40 PM, mwieder wrote: > > I generated and downloaded a new 4.6.4 license file, and on trying to use the > license file on OSX I get the message "the provided license is no longer > valid". > > > > ----- > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > -- > View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Activating-old-versions-of-LiveCode-tp4707609p4707622.html > Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Aug 19 21:53:21 2016 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2016 20:53:21 -0500 Subject: Mobile scroller In-Reply-To: <007b01d1fa54$8fd123e0$af736ba0$@net> References: <58904964-04d1-62de-6ffb-c6fd464eb974@cogapp.com> <2e32b41260a5c4d38c983334892b4a8f@livecode.com> <0E5C34FE-12D0-4FC0-8A79-6668CFE46F51@canelasoftware.com> <6F62E667-2FEA-4CF8-8F0B-9554A5D18936@livecode.com> <007b01d1fa54$8fd123e0$af736ba0$@net> Message-ID: On 8/19/2016 3:02 PM, Ralph DiMola wrote: > How can a mobile scroller be in layer behind a field control? It isn't really, it just acts like that. > I see the scroller getting created and do its usual short flash of the > scroll indicators but you can't use it but instead it sends mouseup to the > field that goes to another card that has scrolling results and that scroller > works perfect on the new card. Scrollers on other cards also work perfect. > I've used the mobile scroller many many times with no problems. > I moved the scroller rect below the field for a test and it is on top of all > the other controls and scrolls the field above as expected. > This happens only on Android. iOS works as expected. I had to deal with something similar on Android the other day. It wasn't quite the same setup as yours, but similar. I worked around it by handling touchStart and touchEnd to do the scrolling and let the mouseUp in the control handle taps. The mouseUp is paired with a mouseDown and only triggers a tap if the vertical difference is more than 10 pixels. There may be something odd about the Android implementation. You might consider submitting your stack to the QCC, it was a puzzle for me too. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From capellan2000 at gmail.com Fri Aug 19 23:04:56 2016 From: capellan2000 at gmail.com (Alejandro Tejada) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2016 23:04:56 -0400 Subject: The Joy of Removing Features - Part 2: Finding / removing duplicate files / photos. Message-ID: Hi Alex, How are you going to remove uninteresting photos? Using an Artificial Inteligence online API? https://www.quora.com/Which-company-has-the-best-image-recognition-APIs-in-the-market-place-today https://cloud.google.com/vision/ In the LC Forum there is a very useful stack that employs OpenClipArt.org API to display PNG and download SVG files from this clipart website. http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=27245 Al On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 00:20:40 +0100 Alex Tweedly wrote: [snip] > Part 4 will (probably) describe an app for removing uninteresting photos. [snip] From monte at appisle.net Fri Aug 19 23:29:30 2016 From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2016 13:29:30 +1000 Subject: Garbage collection (crashing on Windows) In-Reply-To: <90918947-2ECC-4732-BA0B-022D41113E86@canelasoftware.com> References: <58904964-04d1-62de-6ffb-c6fd464eb974@cogapp.com> <2e32b41260a5c4d38c983334892b4a8f@livecode.com> <0E5C34FE-12D0-4FC0-8A79-6668CFE46F51@canelasoftware.com> <6F62E667-2FEA-4CF8-8F0B-9554A5D18936@livecode.com> <90918947-2ECC-4732-BA0B-022D41113E86@canelasoftware.com> Message-ID: <073B2296-7C9A-4119-9C84-C55AA1D8075A@appisle.net> Mark you could use the split command here if you don?t mind numerically indexed arrays. > On 20 Aug 2016, at 9:07 AM, Mark Talluto wrote: > > command createArray > local tListOfRecordIDs, tTableID > > put fld "recordID data" into tListOfRecordIDs > put uuid() into tTableID > > --FOUND IT FASTER TO WALK THROUGH LONG LISTS > --WHEN WE PUT THEM IN AN ARRAY LIKE THIS > --ONCE THE ARRAY IS MADE, IT WILL BE USED MANY TIMES OVER > --NEGATING THE COST OF MAKING THIS ARRAY > repeat for each line xRecordID in tListOfRecordIDs > put empty into tArrayA[tTableID][xRecordID] > end repeat > > processArray tArrayA > end createArray From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sat Aug 20 04:29:06 2016 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2016 11:29:06 +0300 Subject: [OT] Vector Graphics Message-ID: http://sk1project.org/ Effectively a clone of CorelDraw that is Free (Open Source) for Linux. Richmond. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sat Aug 20 04:32:07 2016 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2016 11:32:07 +0300 Subject: [OT] Vector Graphics In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9681e4be-7eee-19a8-a5dd-545f1f5b125f@gmail.com> Windows version here: https://sourceforge.net/projects/sk1/files/sk1/sK1_v.2.0RC1/ On 20.08.2016 11:29, Richmond wrote: > http://sk1project.org/ > > Effectively a clone of CorelDraw that is Free (Open Source) for Linux. > > Richmond. > From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sat Aug 20 04:35:35 2016 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2016 11:35:35 +0300 Subject: Activating old versions of LiveCode In-Reply-To: <1471642830997-4707622.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <80390b2b-0865-25fc-7571-4a64c4fe6005@cogapp.com> <1ead22a5-d40b-f724-e9c8-34064eba5d0f@cogapp.com> <1471642830997-4707622.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <40ad3a46-39e0-1538-3b88-6b0798ce739f@gmail.com> Dunno. I have "in perpetuity" licences for 4.0 and 4.5 which basically are strings of mixed numbers and letters which I have backed up all over the place in text files . . . go and dig around in your back ups. Richmond. On 20.08.2016 00:40, mwieder wrote: > I generated and downloaded a new 4.6.4 license file, and on trying to use the > license file on OSX I get the message "the provided license is no longer > valid". > > > > ----- From david at viral.academy Sat Aug 20 05:17:43 2016 From: david at viral.academy (David Bovill) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2016 10:17:43 +0100 Subject: blockchain In-Reply-To: References: <1e6bf6b0-d6e0-43a0-8881-7c510a48c3a4@Spark> Message-ID: Mike that would be great. I'd like to get together a small group to research together the integration of Livecode with blockchain - starting in November. The format would be asynchronous work with some live get-togethers. Involvement does not need to be super-geeky. It will be a research group, so I'll collect links, podcasts and videos and present these within a Livecode environment - so there is a need for media, writing and research skills and we will be working together on a publication within Livecode. This publication will also be online and on the decentralised web. Super-geeks with a knowledge of Javascript and Livecode are also more than welcome. If anyone else is interested just email me here or off-list, and I'll send out information when the dates are confirmed. On 18 August 2016 at 13:44, Mike Kerner wrote: > James, I'm always interested in what other folks are doing, and I'd like to > hear more about the setup. David, I'd definitely be interested. > > On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 6:20 AM, David Bovill wrote: > > > Yes - I've been interested in Livecode and blockchain for a couple of > years > > now. I've been following Ethereum since the beginning - we tried to make > a > > documentary about the project and I went to DevCon 1 in Berlin as the > team > > started it's development. > > > > There is an interesting online Hackathon in November if any Livecoders > are > > interested in taking part / forming a team? > > > > On 18 August 2016 at 01:27, Richard Gaskin > > wrote: > > > > > Jerry Daniels wrote: > > > > > > > On Aug 17, 2016, 5:12 PM -0500, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > > >> > > > >> What is the business benefit for this application to go P2P rather > > > >> than client-server? > > > > > > > > Richard, cost savings, security, privacy. Costs are drastically > > > > reduced without hosting and its (hidden) labor/maintenance. Just > > > > think about the long record of exploitation of hosted SQL data. > > > > Not in the models were discussing here. > > > > > > I like the idea* of P2P for some applications, but with the explosion > of > > > cloud services the client-server model seems to have merit as well. > > > > > > On the one hand, there are the risks of managing (hopefully redundant) > > > server farms. On the other hand there are the risks of having every > > client > > > also be a server, but without a team of professionals hardening and > > > monitoring it. > > > > > > All systems are hackable. Ideally prevention, monitoring, and recovery > > > are budgeted for in the business plan with any architecture. > > > > > > I believe there's a role for both client-server and P2P, and federated > > > models as well. Each has its own benefits and tradeoffs; like > > programming > > > languages, there'll always be more because use cases where they can add > > > value only grow and diversify. > > > > > > Back to blockchains, from my reading it's becoming clear that the > > > distributed trust is a compelling feature, along with the increased > speed > > > with which transaction ledgers can be conveyed faithfully. Like the > > early > > > days of railroads, networks outside of Bitcoin employ different > > standards, > > > each with its own kinks to work out but worth the effort. Over time it > > > seems likely they'll impact global quality of life as significantly as > > the > > > invention of compound interest. > > > > > > Lots to learn.... > > > > > > > > > > Richard, Mike...sorry for my butting in here. Feel free to ignore my > > > > interruption. > > > > > > Au contraire, mon ami. Always good to have you around. > > > > > > > > > > > > * I've been paranoid for years, and enjoying Mr. Robot has only made > that > > > worse. :) For the last several years I've run my main laptop and > > > workstation with no open ports (easy to do with Ubuntu since it ships > > that > > > way; took some work to harden my Mac). This has meant that as eagerly > as > > I > > > used to visit openp2p.com and read the other things, these days P2P is > > an > > > interesting set of ideas but not something I focus on; all > collaboration > > > systems here use only outbound connections. > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Richard Gaskin > > > Fourth World Systems > > > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > > subscription preferences: > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From mark at livecode.com Sat Aug 20 05:48:46 2016 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2016 10:48:46 +0100 Subject: Garbage collection (crashing on Windows) In-Reply-To: <90918947-2ECC-4732-BA0B-022D41113E86@canelasoftware.com> References: <58904964-04d1-62de-6ffb-c6fd464eb974@cogapp.com> <2e32b41260a5c4d38c983334892b4a8f@livecode.com> <0E5C34FE-12D0-4FC0-8A79-6668CFE46F51@canelasoftware.com> <6F62E667-2FEA-4CF8-8F0B-9554A5D18936@livecode.com> <90918947-2ECC-4732-BA0B-022D41113E86@canelasoftware.com> Message-ID: <34BC8945-A6A8-487E-B16A-A4FAE718FDDE@livecode.com> Ah! Using repeat for each key is essentially using the keys of an array as a 'proper list' - it is probably the fastest way currently to iterate over a sequence of strings. In this case the value of each element in that array is immaterial - so the performance benefit comes iterating over the keys in this manner, rather than the way that array was constructed. Mark. Sent from my iPhone > On 20 Aug 2016, at 00:07, Mark Talluto wrote: > > I do not remember how much of a performance boost we got from manipulating long lists this way, but if memory serves, it was quite beneficial. > This code sample is just something I made up on the fly. Hopefully it demonstrates the value of this method. > > command createArray > local tListOfRecordIDs, tTableID > > put fld "recordID data" into tListOfRecordIDs > put uuid() into tTableID > > --FOUND IT FASTER TO WALK THROUGH LONG LISTS > --WHEN WE PUT THEM IN AN ARRAY LIKE THIS > --ONCE THE ARRAY IS MADE, IT WILL BE USED MANY TIMES OVER > --NEGATING THE COST OF MAKING THIS ARRAY > repeat for each line xRecordID in tListOfRecordIDs > put empty into tArrayA[tTableID][xRecordID] > end repeat > > processArray tArrayA > end createArray > > > command processArray @rArrayA > put the keys of rArrayA into tTableID > > --WALK THROUGH ARRAY LIST > repeat for each key xRecordID in rArrayA[tTableID] > --do something with xRecordID here > --we might modify something in this list > end repeat > > --WALK THROUGH ARRAY LIST > repeat for each key xRecordID in rArrayA[tTableID] > --do something with this modified list from previous repeat > end repeat > end processArray > > > -Mark > > > >> On Aug 19, 2016, at 12:22 PM, Mark Waddingham wrote: >> >> With the current implementation of the engine, the only reason using empty is faster than using pValue is because the latter requires a variable lookup, the former is a constant. >> >> What are you using sValueCache for? >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On 19 Aug 2016, at 19:37, Mark Talluto wrote: >>> >>> >>>> On Aug 19, 2016, at 10:42 AM, Mark Waddingham wrote: >>>> >>>> command shareAndStoreKey @xArray, pKey, pValue >>>> set the caseSensitive to true -- this is assuming your values are sensitive to case >>>> if pValue is not among the keys of sValueCache then >>>> put pValue into sValueCache[pValue] >>>> end if >>>> put sValueCache[pValue] into xArray[pKey] >>>> end command >>> >>> >>> Hi Mark, >>> >>> We have been doing: >>> put empty into sValueCache[pValue] --as an optimization. >>> >>> How does this compare to: >>> put pValue into sValueCache[pValue] --in terms of performance? >>> >>> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> Mark Talluto >>> livecloud.io >>> canelasoftware.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mark at canelasoftware.com Sat Aug 20 11:28:32 2016 From: mark at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2016 08:28:32 -0700 Subject: Garbage collection (crashing on Windows) In-Reply-To: <073B2296-7C9A-4119-9C84-C55AA1D8075A@appisle.net> References: <58904964-04d1-62de-6ffb-c6fd464eb974@cogapp.com> <2e32b41260a5c4d38c983334892b4a8f@livecode.com> <0E5C34FE-12D0-4FC0-8A79-6668CFE46F51@canelasoftware.com> <6F62E667-2FEA-4CF8-8F0B-9554A5D18936@livecode.com> <90918947-2ECC-4732-BA0B-022D41113E86@canelasoftware.com> <073B2296-7C9A-4119-9C84-C55AA1D8075A@appisle.net> Message-ID: Split would works for simple data sets. This made up example would support split just fine. > On Aug 19, 2016, at 8:29 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > > Mark you could use the split command here if you don?t mind numerically indexed arrays. > >> On 20 Aug 2016, at 9:07 AM, Mark Talluto wrote: >> >> command createArray >> local tListOfRecordIDs, tTableID >> >> put fld "recordID data" into tListOfRecordIDs >> put uuid() into tTableID >> >> --FOUND IT FASTER TO WALK THROUGH LONG LISTS >> --WHEN WE PUT THEM IN AN ARRAY LIKE THIS >> --ONCE THE ARRAY IS MADE, IT WILL BE USED MANY TIMES OVER >> --NEGATING THE COST OF MAKING THIS ARRAY >> repeat for each line xRecordID in tListOfRecordIDs >> put empty into tArrayA[tTableID][xRecordID] >> end repeat >> >> processArray tArrayA >> end createArray > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From smudge.andy at googlemail.com Sat Aug 20 12:14:57 2016 From: smudge.andy at googlemail.com (AndyP) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2016 09:14:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Great Conference Photos In-Reply-To: <9137A2AA-5ABC-4845-B106-69F9926649FF@livecode.com> References: <9137A2AA-5ABC-4845-B106-69F9926649FF@livecode.com> Message-ID: <1471709697794-4707636.post@n4.nabble.com> Great photos. Nice to get a feeling for what was happening at the conference for those of us who are unable to attend. ----- Andy Piddock My software never has bugs. It just develops random features. Copy the new cloud space, get your free 15GB space now: Get Copy Script editor Themer for LC http://2108.co.uk PointandSee is a FREE simple but full featured under cursor colour picker / finder. http://www.pointandsee.co.uk - made with LiveCode -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Great-Conference-Photos-tp4707606p4707636.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From dochawk at gmail.com Sat Aug 20 12:31:02 2016 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2016 09:31:02 -0700 Subject: Garbage collection (crashing on Windows) In-Reply-To: References: <58904964-04d1-62de-6ffb-c6fd464eb974@cogapp.com> <78de85f4-8976-0f7c-d917-df2cdc7b69c8@cogapp.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 11:09 AM, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto < revolution at jaedworks.com> wrote: > I've had ugly crashes with large or complex arrays (that weren't anywhere > near the 4G limit). It's not just LiveCode where I trip over obscure bugs . . That's actually how I found met buy in Cray's Fortran compiler (sold as Absoft or some such at the time for Linux). Apparently, I was the first person ever to attempt to allocate a dynamic array over 256 megs with it. As, for reasons beyond my comprehension, such arrays are bit-addressed, this rolled over the 32 bit addressing, and landed me in their next beta . . . -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From dochawk at gmail.com Sat Aug 20 12:33:14 2016 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2016 09:33:14 -0700 Subject: Garbage collection (crashing on Windows) In-Reply-To: <2e32b41260a5c4d38c983334892b4a8f@livecode.com> References: <58904964-04d1-62de-6ffb-c6fd464eb974@cogapp.com> <2e32b41260a5c4d38c983334892b4a8f@livecode.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Aug 19, 2016 at 10:42 AM, Mark Waddingham wrote: > LiveCode doesn't use what is generally referred to as 'garbage collection' > as it generally frees 'things' up as soon as they are no longer referenced. In that case, what are the several second pauses in the IDE, particularly the editor (versions 5 & 7, maybe others) -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From mark at livecode.com Sat Aug 20 12:56:15 2016 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2016 17:56:15 +0100 Subject: Garbage collection (crashing on Windows) In-Reply-To: References: <58904964-04d1-62de-6ffb-c6fd464eb974@cogapp.com> <2e32b41260a5c4d38c983334892b4a8f@livecode.com> Message-ID: <1603CA1C-29FA-4DB3-AFF0-31582147E599@livecode.com> Most likely the time it takes to layout the text for display - 'typesetting' (the process that converts a styled string into a list of glyphs and positions) is a very complicated and time consuming process. Mark. Sent from my iPhone > On 20 Aug 2016, at 17:33, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > >> On Fri, Aug 19, 2016 at 10:42 AM, Mark Waddingham wrote: >> >> LiveCode doesn't use what is generally referred to as 'garbage collection' >> as it generally frees 'things' up as soon as they are no longer referenced. > > > In that case, what are the several second pauses in the IDE, particularly > the editor (versions 5 & 7, maybe others) > > > > -- > Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. > (702) 508-8462 > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sat Aug 20 12:58:49 2016 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2016 09:58:49 -0700 Subject: Should size be extended to variables? Message-ID: <21969fc9-927a-9988-c627-4301c1b66d7a@fourthworld.com> Currently the length function returns the number of characters in the data passed to it, but there may be times when what we want to know is the actual size of the data in bytes, which may vary from the number of characters. The size function seems a good fit for this, since it's all about bytes. Should I submit an enhancement request to extend the size function to work with variables as it does for objects? Any other options I should consider before submitting a request for some means of determining data length in bytes? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From mark at canelasoftware.com Sat Aug 20 13:01:32 2016 From: mark at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2016 10:01:32 -0700 Subject: Should size be extended to variables? In-Reply-To: <21969fc9-927a-9988-c627-4301c1b66d7a@fourthworld.com> References: <21969fc9-927a-9988-c627-4301c1b66d7a@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Yes. Arrays. Mark On Saturday, August 20, 2016, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Currently the length function returns the number of characters in the data > passed to it, but there may be times when what we want to know is the > actual size of the data in bytes, which may vary from the number of > characters. > > The size function seems a good fit for this, since it's all about bytes. > > Should I submit an enhancement request to extend the size function to work > with variables as it does for objects? > > Any other options I should consider before submitting a request for some > means of determining data length in bytes? > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Best regards, Mark Talluto CANELA Software, Inc. 28544 Old Town Front Street #305 Temecula, CA 92590 tel: 310-856-9926 fax: 888-339-6685 international: +1 310 856 9926 livecloud.io canelasoftware.com From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sat Aug 20 13:50:36 2016 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2016 20:50:36 +0300 Subject: Should size be extended to variables? In-Reply-To: <21969fc9-927a-9988-c627-4301c1b66d7a@fourthworld.com> References: <21969fc9-927a-9988-c627-4301c1b66d7a@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <353358cf-dc93-7d3c-ce33-dda983297768@gmail.com> That seems a good idea. How about a term 'bytes' as in: put the bytes of MyVar ? Ah: 'bytes' is already used . . . !!!! I just tried this: on mouseUp put "I'm a little teapot short and stout" into VVAR put the number of bytes in VVAR into fld "BITES" put the number of chars in VVAR into fld "CHARZ" end mouseUp and found the number of bytes was the same as the number of chars, presumably using double-byte stuff such as Chinese the latter would be twice the former. Richmond. On 20.08.2016 19:58, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Currently the length function returns the number of characters in the > data passed to it, but there may be times when what we want to know is > the actual size of the data in bytes, which may vary from the number > of characters. > > The size function seems a good fit for this, since it's all about bytes. > > Should I submit an enhancement request to extend the size function to > work with variables as it does for objects? > > Any other options I should consider before submitting a request for > some means of determining data length in bytes? > From mark at livecode.com Sat Aug 20 14:44:19 2016 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2016 19:44:19 +0100 Subject: Should size be extended to variables? In-Reply-To: References: <21969fc9-927a-9988-c627-4301c1b66d7a@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <06984D16-BB76-4912-B0D1-779AA79EACD4@livecode.com> For what purpose? The key thing here is that the number of bytes a value currently takes up in memory is not actually a good measure for how much memory is being used because instances of values can be shared. To put it another way, the memory footprint used by two arrays will not necessarily be the same as the sum of the memory footprint of the two arrays measured separately as they might share the actual memory used by any value in either array. e.g the values used to store the keys in an array are *always* shared. You can get a reasonable approximation of the memory footprint of an array in isolation by taking the length of its arrayencoding. For optimization purposes the best approach is to measure the amount of memory *actually* in use before and after any particular operation you perform - just as you do with time when profiling for speed (rather than memory footprint). Warmest regards, Mark. Sent from my iPhone > On 20 Aug 2016, at 18:01, Mark Talluto wrote: > > Yes. Arrays. > > Mark > > On Saturday, August 20, 2016, Richard Gaskin > wrote: > >> Currently the length function returns the number of characters in the data >> passed to it, but there may be times when what we want to know is the >> actual size of the data in bytes, which may vary from the number of >> characters. >> >> The size function seems a good fit for this, since it's all about bytes. >> >> Should I submit an enhancement request to extend the size function to work >> with variables as it does for objects? >> >> Any other options I should consider before submitting a request for some >> means of determining data length in bytes? >> >> -- >> Richard Gaskin >> Fourth World Systems >> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web >> ____________________________________________________________________ >> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > -- > Best regards, > Mark Talluto > > > > CANELA Software, Inc. > 28544 Old Town Front Street #305 > Temecula, CA 92590 > tel: 310-856-9926 > fax: 888-339-6685 > international: +1 310 856 9926 > livecloud.io > canelasoftware.com > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sat Aug 20 15:05:20 2016 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2016 12:05:20 -0700 Subject: Should size be extended to variables? In-Reply-To: <06984D16-BB76-4912-B0D1-779AA79EACD4@livecode.com> References: <06984D16-BB76-4912-B0D1-779AA79EACD4@livecode.com> Message-ID: Mark Waddingham wrote: > On 20 Aug 2016, at 18:01, Mark Talluto wrote: >> >> On Saturday, August 20, 2016, Richard Gaskin wrote: >>> Any other options I should consider before submitting a request for >>> some means of determining data length in bytes? >> >> Yes. Arrays. > > For what purpose? > > The key thing here is that the number of bytes a value currently > takes up in memory is not actually a good measure for how much memory > is being used because instances of values can be shared. > > To put it another way, the memory footprint used by two arrays will > not necessarily be the same as the sum of the memory footprint of the > two arrays measured separately as they might share the actual memory > used by any value in either array. e.g the values used to store the > keys in an array are *always* shared. Would that apply across sub-arrays? e.g., given: someKey= Name=Mark EmpID=2 anotherKey= Name=Kevin EmpID=1 ...would "Name" and "EmpID" use the same string in memory? As for byte sizes, my own use case is for establishing pointers to locations within a large file on disk. But as Richmond kindly reminded me, the byte chunk type supports that with "the number of bytes of...", so I'm set for now. > For optimization purposes the best approach is to measure the amount > of memory *actually* in use before and after any particular operation > you perform - just as you do with time when profiling for speed > (rather than memory footprint). Is there some built-in way to get the amount of memory in use, or are you thinking of shell calls there? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From mark at livecode.com Sat Aug 20 16:29:42 2016 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2016 21:29:42 +0100 Subject: Should size be extended to variables? In-Reply-To: References: <06984D16-BB76-4912-B0D1-779AA79EACD4@livecode.com> Message-ID: <31CAA89C-9273-4A47-BA01-B1A35849F029@livecode.com> This is why I asked 'for what purpose' :) For the case of optimising for memory footprint you need a measure which allows to see the effect of your code changes on the amount of memory used whilst running - and this is entirely a runtime concern, so you need to take measurements which reflect active state. For the case of indexing an encoded format on disk you need to measure the size of things as they are in your specific output format - that will entirely depend on how you choose to encode the values you are writing out and want to index. The encoded size of a string, for example, will depend on the text encoding. A good pattern for your use-case is perhaps PDF. This format is a serialised list of objects which has an index appended to the end. The index is a mapping of thing you want to load to byte offset in file. The index is generated as the file is written out (reading file offsets as they are written out), then appended to the end of the file. The final bit of the file is the byte offset to the start of the index in the file. (Note that such an index could be generated as a post processing step, and is perfectly viable as a separate file). In regards to 'number of bytes of', then this does an auto convert to data relative to the native encoding (for strings) so probably isn't what you want here if your text could be Unicode ( or needed in a cross platform encoding). Warmest regards, Mark. Sent from my iPhone > On 20 Aug 2016, at 20:05, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > Mark Waddingham wrote: > > > > On 20 Aug 2016, at 18:01, Mark Talluto wrote: > >> > >> On Saturday, August 20, 2016, Richard Gaskin wrote: > >>> Any other options I should consider before submitting a request for > >>> some means of determining data length in bytes? > >> > >> Yes. Arrays. > > > > For what purpose? > > > > The key thing here is that the number of bytes a value currently > > takes up in memory is not actually a good measure for how much memory > > is being used because instances of values can be shared. > > > > To put it another way, the memory footprint used by two arrays will > > not necessarily be the same as the sum of the memory footprint of the > > two arrays measured separately as they might share the actual memory > > used by any value in either array. e.g the values used to store the > > keys in an array are *always* shared. > > Would that apply across sub-arrays? e.g., given: > > someKey= > Name=Mark > EmpID=2 > anotherKey= > Name=Kevin > EmpID=1 > > ...would "Name" and "EmpID" use the same string in memory? > > > As for byte sizes, my own use case is for establishing pointers to locations within a large file on disk. > > But as Richmond kindly reminded me, the byte chunk type supports that with "the number of bytes of...", so I'm set for now. > > > > For optimization purposes the best approach is to measure the amount > > of memory *actually* in use before and after any particular operation > > you perform - just as you do with time when profiling for speed > > (rather than memory footprint). > > Is there some built-in way to get the amount of memory in use, or are you thinking of shell calls there? > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From monte at appisle.net Sat Aug 20 16:56:55 2016 From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2016 06:56:55 +1000 Subject: Garbage collection (crashing on Windows) In-Reply-To: References: <58904964-04d1-62de-6ffb-c6fd464eb974@cogapp.com> <2e32b41260a5c4d38c983334892b4a8f@livecode.com> Message-ID: > On 21 Aug 2016, at 2:33 AM, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > > In that case, what are the several second pauses in the IDE, particularly > the editor (versions 5 & 7, maybe others) Do you happen to have bug report numbers for these pauses because they can probably be fixed? I?ve recently done some work on two functions of the script editor that had quite inefficient and roughly 10 year old code. Indenting and searching entire stacks for strings will be *much* faster in 8.1. Searching all stacks and their stackFiles in the the IDE (something I do multiple times a day at the moment) has gone from a ?get it going and go and get a coffee? thing to a ?get it going and quickly look to see if you have any new email? thing. Both of these huge improvements involved taking much more care with things that would require parsing entire blobs of text to add or extract one line. Cheers Monte From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sat Aug 20 17:11:51 2016 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2016 14:11:51 -0700 Subject: Should size be extended to variables? In-Reply-To: <31CAA89C-9273-4A47-BA01-B1A35849F029@livecode.com> References: <31CAA89C-9273-4A47-BA01-B1A35849F029@livecode.com> Message-ID: <10feb920-2532-2af4-7b4a-7f812a5d1358@fourthworld.com> Mark Waddingham wrote: >> On 20 Aug 2016, at 20:05, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> >> As for byte sizes, my own use case is for establishing pointers to >> locations within a large file on disk. >> >> But as Richmond kindly reminded me, the byte chunk type supports >> that with "the number of bytes of...", so I'm set for now. > > This is why I asked 'for what purpose' :) Of course, which is why I described mine. :) > For the case of optimising for memory footprint you need a measure > which allows to see the effect of your code changes on the amount > of memory used whilst running - and this is entirely a runtime > concern, so you need to take measurements which reflect active state. > > For the case of indexing an encoded format on disk you need to > measure the size of things as they are in your specific output format > - that will entirely depend on how you choose to encode the values > you are writing out and want to index. > > The encoded size of a string, for example, will depend on the text > encoding. > > A good pattern for your use-case is perhaps PDF. This format is a > serialised list of objects which has an index appended to the end. > The index is a mapping of thing you want to load to byte offset in > file. The index is generated as the file is written out (reading file > offsets as they are written out), then appended to the end of the > file. The final bit of the file is the byte offset to the start of > the index in the file. > > (Note that such an index could be generated as a post processing > step, and is perfectly viable as a separate file). That's how I'm storing it now, as a separate "map" to the larger file. > In regards to 'number of bytes of', then this does an auto convert to > data relative to the native encoding (for strings) so probably isn't > what you want here if your text could be Unicode ( or needed in a > cross platform encoding). These larger files can vary. Sometimes I don't write them at all, merely read chunks of them to determine interesting locations, and then attempt to note the location in my "map" index file. In other cases I have collections of LSON data (LiveCode encoded arrays), in which each encoded array has some other data of a knowable size prepended to it, and then appended to the collection. In all cases, the data is read and written in binary mode. If neither "number of bytes of" or "number of chars" will help, how can I know the true byte length of a chunk of data? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From monte at appisle.net Sat Aug 20 17:18:22 2016 From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2016 07:18:22 +1000 Subject: Backwards compatibility or sanity? help Message-ID: <053AAE41-C83D-4E3C-AEC9-6A6F8C4C2850@appisle.net> Hi LiveCoders The team is in a quandary about the following bug: http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18145 The issue is in LiveCode 6.7 and below `is among` was essentially implemented incorrectly meaning that you could get results like this: put the number of items in "test,this," & comma & \ (empty is among the items of "test,this,") ?> 2,true In LiveCode 7 this (fairly odd) behavior was broken and fixed in the early dp releases then broken again when another fix was made. The difficulty is trailing delimiters are ignored by all the other things like repeat etc. So the situation at the moment in LiveCode 8 is: put the number of items in "test,this," & comma & \ (empty is among the items of "test,this,") ?> 2,false Note that in all versions: repeat for each item tItem in "test,this,? ? iterates twice with ?test? then ?this" end repeat ? here tItem is ?this" It?s important to note that this is only an issue if the last item is empty and meant to be an empty item. I personally would rather not revert to the anomalous behavior of `is among` as I think it is doing the platform and users a disservice to persist in maintaining it. I?m interested in your thoughts! Cheers Monte From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sat Aug 20 18:47:32 2016 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2016 15:47:32 -0700 Subject: Backwards compatibility or sanity? help In-Reply-To: <053AAE41-C83D-4E3C-AEC9-6A6F8C4C2850@appisle.net> References: <053AAE41-C83D-4E3C-AEC9-6A6F8C4C2850@appisle.net> Message-ID: Monte Goulding wrote: > The team is in a quandary about the following bug: > > http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18145 > > The issue is in LiveCode 6.7 and below `is among` was essentially > implemented incorrectly meaning that you could get results like this: > > put the number of items in "test,this," & comma & \ > (empty is among the items of "test,this,") > ?> 2,true > > In LiveCode 7 this (fairly odd) behavior was broken and fixed in the > early dp releases then broken again when another fix was made. The > difficulty is trailing delimiters are ignored by all the other things > like repeat etc. > > So the situation at the moment in LiveCode 8 is: > > put the number of items in "test,this," & comma & \ > (empty is among the items of "test,this,") > ?> 2,false > > Note that in all versions: > > repeat for each item tItem in "test,this,? > ? iterates twice with ?test? then ?this" > end repeat > ? here tItem is ?this" > > It?s important to note that this is only an issue if the last item is > empty and meant to be an empty item. > > I personally would rather not revert to the anomalous behavior of `is > among` as I think it is doing the platform and users a disservice to > persist in maintaining it. > > I?m interested in your thoughts! We've had numerous lengthy (and sometimes heated) discussions about whether a string ending in a delimiter is considered have a thing after that delimiter. Most often this comes up with item/line counting, e.g.: the number of items of "test,this," Current that returns 2. I believe the last time this was discussed Mark had explained why a string ending with a delimiter means there is no item beyond that delimiter. IIRC it boils down to the delimiter being the end of a thing, but not a separator between things. Given that, we would expect this: (empty is among the items of "test,this,") ...to be false, while this: (empty is among the items of "test,,this") ...would return true. The current behavior for Trevor's test is consistent with item counts. If we change it we open up that can of worms about delimiters all over again, and undo Mark's thinking on this. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From monte at appisle.net Sat Aug 20 18:52:16 2016 From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2016 08:52:16 +1000 Subject: Backwards compatibility or sanity? help In-Reply-To: References: <053AAE41-C83D-4E3C-AEC9-6A6F8C4C2850@appisle.net> Message-ID: > On 21 Aug 2016, at 8:47 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > The current behavior for Trevor's test is consistent with item counts. If we change it we open up that can of worms about delimiters all over again, and undo Mark's thinking on this. Yes the point is there?s a legacy of `is among` behaving differently than other delimiter iterators. So I guess we need to determine if we consider the change in behavior in LiveCode 8 a fix to a bug or a regression to a behavior. Cheers Monte From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sat Aug 20 18:57:46 2016 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2016 15:57:46 -0700 Subject: Backwards compatibility or sanity? help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1f4d379d-ff51-59c5-260b-036d02cb0308@fourthworld.com> Monte Goulding wrote: >> On 21 Aug 2016, at 8:47 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> >> The current behavior for Trevor's test is consistent with item >> counts. If we change it we open up that can of worms about >> delimiters all over again, and undo Mark's thinking on this. > > Yes the point is there?s a legacy of `is among` behaving differently > than other delimiter iterators. So I guess we need to determine if we > consider the change in behavior in LiveCode 8 a fix to a bug or a > regression to a behavior. It would appear that the current behavior in v8 is a fix that addresses a previously anomalous handling of delimiters in the case of "is among". -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From monte at appisle.net Sat Aug 20 19:22:31 2016 From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2016 09:22:31 +1000 Subject: Backwards compatibility or sanity? help In-Reply-To: <1f4d379d-ff51-59c5-260b-036d02cb0308@fourthworld.com> References: <1f4d379d-ff51-59c5-260b-036d02cb0308@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <44EAB54D-0E85-43D0-A555-0FA32292E066@appisle.net> > On 21 Aug 2016, at 8:57 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > It would appear that the current behavior in v8 is a fix that addresses a previously anomalous handling of delimiters in the case of "is among". That?s my feeling also. We know it impacts a popular library (Animation Engine), however, seeing as any code base that needs to be robust on all versions of LiveCode will need to ensure it doesn?t rely on empty trailing items with no delimiter after them I assume that will be need to be resolved regardless because all the 8.0.x series are impacted and a number of 7.x (we need to determine which ones). Cheers Monte From iowahengst at mac.com Sat Aug 20 19:38:31 2016 From: iowahengst at mac.com (Randy Hengst) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2016 18:38:31 -0500 Subject: Backwards compatibility or sanity? help In-Reply-To: <44EAB54D-0E85-43D0-A555-0FA32292E066@appisle.net> References: <1f4d379d-ff51-59c5-260b-036d02cb0308@fourthworld.com> <44EAB54D-0E85-43D0-A555-0FA32292E066@appisle.net> Message-ID: <60AB2082-E443-4D46-82BC-E75DF44F9C9D@mac.com> This doesn?t totally fit with the conversation, and I assume the Team knows this but? SORT assumes that a trailing comma indicates an empty item? for example: on mouseUp local tTestITEMS put "1,2,3,4,5," into tTestITEMS answer the number of items in tTestITEMS && "ITEMS" && "tTestITEMS" && tTestITEMS -- will give FIVE items sort items of tTestITEMS by random(10000) answer the number of items in tTestITEMS && "ITEMS" && "tTestITEMS" && tTestITEMS -- will give SIX items end mouseUp be well randy hengst www.classroomFocusedSoftware.com > On Aug 20, 2016, at 6:22 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > > >> On 21 Aug 2016, at 8:57 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> >> It would appear that the current behavior in v8 is a fix that addresses a previously anomalous handling of delimiters in the case of "is among". > > That?s my feeling also. We know it impacts a popular library (Animation Engine), however, seeing as any code base that needs to be robust on all versions of LiveCode will need to ensure it doesn?t rely on empty trailing items with no delimiter after them I assume that will be need to be resolved regardless because all the 8.0.x series are impacted and a number of 7.x (we need to determine which ones). > > Cheers > > Monte > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From hh at hyperhh.de Sat Aug 20 19:46:19 2016 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2016 01:46:19 +0200 Subject: Backwards compatibility or sanity? help Message-ID: <76095871-4FCC-433A-A2E5-7CF6ED7E7DD6@hyperhh.de> Why is the number of items or having the property "item" of a string dependent of the writing/reading direction of the string? From monte at appisle.net Sat Aug 20 19:52:26 2016 From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2016 09:52:26 +1000 Subject: Backwards compatibility or sanity? help In-Reply-To: <60AB2082-E443-4D46-82BC-E75DF44F9C9D@mac.com> References: <1f4d379d-ff51-59c5-260b-036d02cb0308@fourthworld.com> <44EAB54D-0E85-43D0-A555-0FA32292E066@appisle.net> <60AB2082-E443-4D46-82BC-E75DF44F9C9D@mac.com> Message-ID: <64670846-5EDA-4049-836F-E33CB4448BAF@appisle.net> > On 21 Aug 2016, at 9:38 AM, Randy Hengst wrote: > > This doesn?t totally fit with the conversation, and I assume the Team knows this but? SORT assumes that a trailing comma indicates an empty item Oh yay?. this behavior persists in LiveCode 8. From monte at appisle.net Sat Aug 20 20:11:53 2016 From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2016 10:11:53 +1000 Subject: Backwards compatibility or sanity? help In-Reply-To: <76095871-4FCC-433A-A2E5-7CF6ED7E7DD6@hyperhh.de> References: <76095871-4FCC-433A-A2E5-7CF6ED7E7DD6@hyperhh.de> Message-ID: <58B1DA83-9F2E-4F6E-B20E-DCF7C00D129B@appisle.net> > On 21 Aug 2016, at 9:46 AM, hh wrote: > > Why is the number of items or having the property "item" > of a string dependent of the writing/reading direction > of the string? Hmm? I?ll answer your question with a question: Which item is item 1? Cheers Monte From monte at appisle.net Sat Aug 20 20:20:02 2016 From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2016 10:20:02 +1000 Subject: Backwards compatibility or sanity? help In-Reply-To: <64670846-5EDA-4049-836F-E33CB4448BAF@appisle.net> References: <1f4d379d-ff51-59c5-260b-036d02cb0308@fourthworld.com> <44EAB54D-0E85-43D0-A555-0FA32292E066@appisle.net> <60AB2082-E443-4D46-82BC-E75DF44F9C9D@mac.com> <64670846-5EDA-4049-836F-E33CB4448BAF@appisle.net> Message-ID: <9C15C919-4F03-41F5-A5EE-7679DA816415@appisle.net> > On 21 Aug 2016, at 9:52 AM, Monte Goulding wrote: > > Oh yay?. this behavior persists in LiveCode 8. There is an ANOMALY report on this: http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16588 From irog at mac.com Sat Aug 20 22:38:20 2016 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2016 19:38:20 -0700 Subject: Wouldn't it be neat... In-Reply-To: <86a8f7fa-b09a-452c-b866-8eb665855234@Spark> References: <86a8f7fa-b09a-452c-b866-8eb665855234@Spark> Message-ID: If one could double-click a word in the script editor and then simply click a button to put it in quotes? Has anyone already done this? Yes, I know I can do Find and Replace, but this would definitely be the cat?s meow! Roger From monte at appisle.net Sat Aug 20 22:47:10 2016 From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2016 12:47:10 +1000 Subject: Wouldn't it be neat... In-Reply-To: References: <86a8f7fa-b09a-452c-b866-8eb665855234@Spark> Message-ID: <53FBBAC8-5125-419A-A36E-4AB95F27B676@appisle.net> Wouldn't it be better if typing quote when you have more than an insertion point quoted around the selection? Sent from my iPhone > On 21 Aug 2016, at 12:38 PM, Roger Guay wrote: > > If one could double-click a word in the script editor and then simply click a button to put it in quotes? Has anyone already done this? Yes, I know I can do Find and Replace, but this would definitely be the cat?s meow! From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat Aug 20 23:04:00 2016 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2016 22:04:00 -0500 Subject: Wouldn't it be neat... In-Reply-To: <53FBBAC8-5125-419A-A36E-4AB95F27B676@appisle.net> References: <86a8f7fa-b09a-452c-b866-8eb665855234@Spark> <53FBBAC8-5125-419A-A36E-4AB95F27B676@appisle.net> Message-ID: <156ab0e0d00.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Yes, and add parentheses, curly brackets and square brackets too. Right now I'm doing these with a frontscript, which I can post when I'm back at the computer unless Pete does it first. My version screws up undo and his doesn't. But I'd rather have it built into the editor. Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On August 20, 2016 9:48:38 PM Monte Goulding wrote: > Wouldn't it be better if typing quote when you have more than an insertion > point quoted around the selection? > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On 21 Aug 2016, at 12:38 PM, Roger Guay wrote: >> >> If one could double-click a word in the script editor and then simply click >> a button to put it in quotes? Has anyone already done this? Yes, I know I >> can do Find and Replace, but this would definitely be the cat?s meow! > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From pete at lcsql.com Sat Aug 20 23:28:39 2016 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2016 03:28:39 +0000 Subject: Wouldn't it be neat... In-Reply-To: <156ab0e0d00.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> References: <86a8f7fa-b09a-452c-b866-8eb665855234@Spark> <53FBBAC8-5125-419A-A36E-4AB95F27B676@appisle.net> <156ab0e0d00.285b.5e131b4e58299f54a9f0b9c05d4f07f9@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Thanks to Jacque for allowing me to use her code as the basis of doing this in lcstackbrowser... But then you have to pay so would be much better in the script editor as would many other editing features. I've recently been using NetBeans for html and php script editing and really like its features in that environment. On Sat, Aug 20, 2016, 8:04 PM J. Landman Gay wrote: > Yes, and add parentheses, curly brackets and square brackets too. Right now > I'm doing these with a frontscript, which I can post when I'm back at the > computer unless Pete does it first. My version screws up undo and his > doesn't. > > But I'd rather have it built into the editor. > > > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > > > On August 20, 2016 9:48:38 PM Monte Goulding wrote: > > > Wouldn't it be better if typing quote when you have more than an > insertion > > point quoted around the selection? > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > >> On 21 Aug 2016, at 12:38 PM, Roger Guay wrote: > >> > >> If one could double-click a word in the script editor and then simply > click > >> a button to put it in quotes? Has anyone already done this? Yes, I know > I > >> can do Find and Replace, but this would definitely be the cat?s meow! > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bonnmike at gmail.com Sat Aug 20 23:29:34 2016 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2016 21:29:34 -0600 Subject: Wouldn't it be neat... In-Reply-To: <53FBBAC8-5125-419A-A36E-4AB95F27B676@appisle.net> References: <86a8f7fa-b09a-452c-b866-8eb665855234@Spark> <53FBBAC8-5125-419A-A36E-4AB95F27B676@appisle.net> Message-ID: I like this idea, so I made a quick and dirty method. Made a button with this.. on mouseUp put the selectedtext into tText if the first char of tText is not quote then put quote before tText if the last char of tText is not quote then put quote after tText put tText into the selectedchunk end mouseUp Did the extra rigamarole for those times when I get one of the quotes in but forgot the other. If there is already a quote at either end of the selection, no quote is added to that end. Should be easy to turn it into a plugin, and assign a key combination to do the quote insert. Thanks for the idea. On Sat, Aug 20, 2016 at 8:47 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > Wouldn't it be better if typing quote when you have more than an insertion > point quoted around the selection? > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On 21 Aug 2016, at 12:38 PM, Roger Guay wrote: > > > > If one could double-click a word in the script editor and then simply > click a button to put it in quotes? Has anyone already done this? Yes, I > know I can do Find and Replace, but this would definitely be the cat?s meow! > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From irog at mac.com Sun Aug 21 01:07:21 2016 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2016 22:07:21 -0700 Subject: Wouldn't it be neat... In-Reply-To: References: <86a8f7fa-b09a-452c-b866-8eb665855234@Spark> <53FBBAC8-5125-419A-A36E-4AB95F27B676@appisle.net> Message-ID: Thanks Jacque, Monty, Peter and Mike. Mike, I tried a similar script in plugin, but I don?t know how to make it interact with the Script Editor. What am I missing? > On Aug 20, 2016, at 8:29 PM, Mike Bonner wrote: > > I like this idea, so I made a quick and dirty method. > > Made a button with this.. > on mouseUp > put the selectedtext into tText > if the first char of tText is not quote then put quote before tText > if the last char of tText is not quote then put quote after tText > put tText into the selectedchunk > end mouseUp > > Did the extra rigamarole for those times when I get one of the quotes in > but forgot the other. If there is already a quote at either end of the > selection, no quote is added to that end. Should be easy to turn it into a > plugin, and assign a key combination to do the quote insert. Thanks for the > idea. > > On Sat, Aug 20, 2016 at 8:47 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > >> Wouldn't it be better if typing quote when you have more than an insertion >> point quoted around the selection? >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On 21 Aug 2016, at 12:38 PM, Roger Guay wrote: >>> >>> If one could double-click a word in the script editor and then simply >> click a button to put it in quotes? Has anyone already done this? Yes, I >> know I can do Find and Replace, but this would definitely be the cat?s meow! >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From hh at hyperhh.de Sun Aug 21 04:06:11 2016 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2016 10:06:11 +0200 Subject: Backwards compatibility or sanity? help Message-ID: <46CAE1B4-4C62-4343-A2DB-426CC29EB6B3@hyperhh.de> > > Hermann wrote: > > Why is the number of items or having the property "item" > > of a string dependent on the writing/reading direction > > of the string? > Monte wrote: > Hmm? I?ll answer your question with a question: Which item is item 1? The string "a," has currently .. [RTL] .. reading (or embedding) the string right-to-left: two items and empty is among its items. RTL-item 1 is empty, RTL-item 2 is "a". [LTR] .. reading (or embedding) the string left-to-right: one item and empty is not among its items. LTR-item 1 is "a". And LTR-item 2 is empty (item 2 of "a," is empty --> returns true). Moreover, similar: empty is among the items of empty --> returns false item 1 of empty is empty --> returns true From monte at appisle.net Sun Aug 21 04:44:49 2016 From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2016 18:44:49 +1000 Subject: Backwards compatibility or sanity? help In-Reply-To: <46CAE1B4-4C62-4343-A2DB-426CC29EB6B3@hyperhh.de> References: <46CAE1B4-4C62-4343-A2DB-426CC29EB6B3@hyperhh.de> Message-ID: <5ECB713C-EEAB-4D58-B40A-DC7A82647C63@appisle.net> Hmm... I've got to say I'm a little on the ignorant side of things with regard to RTL text in LiveCode but my understanding is it's only a field thing and any chunk references are always LTR. Happy to be educated though! Cheers Monte Sent from my iPhone > On 21 Aug 2016, at 6:06 PM, hh wrote: > > RTL From hh at hyperhh.de Sun Aug 21 05:39:32 2016 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2016 11:39:32 +0200 Subject: Backwards compatibility or sanity? help Message-ID: > Monte wrote: > Hmm... I've got to say I'm a little on the ignorant > side of things with regard to RTL text in LiveCode but > my understanding is it's only a field thing and any > chunk references are always LTR. Happy to be educated > though! Sorry Monte, I thought (erroneously?) that right-to-left chunk references are in the to-do-but-not-yet-implemented-chest of LC 8. Anyway, the following example empty is among the items of empty --> returns false item 1 of empty is empty --> returns true shows, that one could think about == adding a new "correct/consistent" definition of item, e.g. "trueItem", that is free of all these contradictions generating trailing delimiter and 'index is out of bounds' things, == and about making the (sometimes) "wrong/inconsistent" item-behaviour always downward compatible. Ciao, Hermann From ali.lloyd at livecode.com Sun Aug 21 06:52:06 2016 From: ali.lloyd at livecode.com (Ali Lloyd) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2016 10:52:06 +0000 Subject: Backwards compatibility or sanity? help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hermann, Symmetric chunks of the type you describe have issues when the delimiting rules are more complex - for example when the item delimiter is 'ab', the number of items in 'ab' is not an invariant of its read order, unless you reverse the characters in the delimiter too. When the item delimiter is 'aa', the items of 'baaa' are completely different. What happens when the item delimiter has combining characters and we're matching the precombined version? For a more simple example of the issues here, what are the backward and forward words of "String without closing quote ? On Sun, 21 Aug 2016 at 10:39, hh wrote: > > Monte wrote: > > Hmm... I've got to say I'm a little on the ignorant > > side of things with regard to RTL text in LiveCode but > > my understanding is it's only a field thing and any > > chunk references are always LTR. Happy to be educated > > though! > > Sorry Monte, > I thought (erroneously?) that right-to-left chunk references > are in the to-do-but-not-yet-implemented-chest of LC 8. > > Anyway, the following example > > empty is among the items of empty --> returns false > item 1 of empty is empty --> returns true > > shows, that one could think about > == adding a new "correct/consistent" definition of item, e.g. > "trueItem", that is free of all these contradictions > generating trailing delimiter and 'index is out of bounds' > things, > == and about making the (sometimes) "wrong/inconsistent" > item-behaviour always downward compatible. > > Ciao, Hermann > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From bonnmike at gmail.com Sun Aug 21 07:36:04 2016 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2016 05:36:04 -0600 Subject: Wouldn't it be neat... In-Reply-To: References: <86a8f7fa-b09a-452c-b866-8eb665855234@Spark> <53FBBAC8-5125-419A-A36E-4AB95F27B676@appisle.net> Message-ID: Do as monty suggested and hilite the chunk you want to quote and click the button. Though it just popped into my head.. If you're on a mac, and click a button while text is selected.. does it de-select the chunk? I seem to remember something like this in the past, but am not at my mac right now so I can't try it. On windows, just shoving the code into a button and then clicking it while text is selected is working fine. I'll poke around on mac and get it working there once i'm more awake. On Sat, Aug 20, 2016 at 11:07 PM, Roger Guay wrote: > Thanks Jacque, Monty, Peter and Mike. > > Mike, I tried a similar script in plugin, but I don?t know how to make it > interact with the Script Editor. What am I missing? > > > > > On Aug 20, 2016, at 8:29 PM, Mike Bonner wrote: > > > > I like this idea, so I made a quick and dirty method. > > > > Made a button with this.. > > on mouseUp > > put the selectedtext into tText > > if the first char of tText is not quote then put quote before tText > > if the last char of tText is not quote then put quote after tText > > put tText into the selectedchunk > > end mouseUp > > > > Did the extra rigamarole for those times when I get one of the quotes in > > but forgot the other. If there is already a quote at either end of the > > selection, no quote is added to that end. Should be easy to turn it into > a > > plugin, and assign a key combination to do the quote insert. Thanks for > the > > idea. > > > > On Sat, Aug 20, 2016 at 8:47 PM, Monte Goulding > wrote: > > > >> Wouldn't it be better if typing quote when you have more than an > insertion > >> point quoted around the selection? > >> > >> Sent from my iPhone > >> > >>> On 21 Aug 2016, at 12:38 PM, Roger Guay wrote: > >>> > >>> If one could double-click a word in the script editor and then simply > >> click a button to put it in quotes? Has anyone already done this? Yes, I > >> know I can do Find and Replace, but this would definitely be the cat?s > meow! > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From me at jerrydaniels.com Sun Aug 21 10:24:20 2016 From: me at jerrydaniels.com (me at jerrydaniels.com) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2016 09:24:20 -0500 Subject: Wouldn't it be neat... In-Reply-To: References: <86a8f7fa-b09a-452c-b866-8eb665855234@Spark> <53FBBAC8-5125-419A-A36E-4AB95F27B676@appisle.net> Message-ID: <6f850351-2e06-404c-af37-7fca20b3c560@Spark> Trapping the commankeydown message is the easiest way to automate quoting. Rather than altering the script field behavior, I'd recommend using a front script. Just make sure you pass the keys you're not using! On Aug 21, 2016, 6:37 AM -0500, Mike Bonner , wrote: > Do as monty suggested and hilite the chunk you want to quote and click the > button. Though it just popped into my head.. If you're on a mac, and click > a button while text is selected.. does it de-select the chunk? I seem to > remember something like this in the past, but am not at my mac right now so > I can't try it. On windows, just shoving the code into a button and then > clicking it while text is selected is working fine. > > I'll poke around on mac and get it working there once i'm more awake. > > On Sat, Aug 20, 2016 at 11:07 PM, Roger Guay wrote: > > > Thanks Jacque, Monty, Peter and Mike. > > > > Mike, I tried a similar script in plugin, but I don?t know how to make it > > interact with the Script Editor. What am I missing? > > > > > > > > > On Aug 20, 2016, at 8:29 PM, Mike Bonner wrote: > > > > > > I like this idea, so I made a quick and dirty method. > > > > > > Made a button with this.. > > > on mouseUp > > > put the selectedtext into tText > > > if the first char of tText is not quote then put quote before tText > > > if the last char of tText is not quote then put quote after tText > > > put tText into the selectedchunk > > > end mouseUp > > > > > > Did the extra rigamarole for those times when I get one of the quotes in > > > but forgot the other. If there is already a quote at either end of the > > > selection, no quote is added to that end. Should be easy to turn it into > > a > > > plugin, and assign a key combination to do the quote insert. Thanks for > > the > > > idea. > > > > > > On Sat, Aug 20, 2016 at 8:47 PM, Monte Goulding > wrote: > > > > > > > Wouldn't it be better if typing quote when you have more than an > > insertion > > > > point quoted around the selection? > > > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > > > > > > On 21 Aug 2016, at 12:38 PM, Roger Guay wrote: > > > > > > > > > > If one could double-click a word in the script editor and then simply > > > > click a button to put it in quotes? Has anyone already done this? Yes, I > > > > know I can do Find and Replace, but this would definitely be the cat?s > > meow! > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > > > subscription preferences: > > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From hh at hyperhh.de Sun Aug 21 10:26:31 2016 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2016 16:26:31 +0200 Subject: Backwards compatibility or sanity? help Message-ID: Ali, probably it's about time that you give at RTL-lesson/blog/tutorial? Would be very appreciated. > Ali wrote: > the number of items in 'ab' is not an invariant of its read order, > unless you reverse the characters in the delimiter too. > When the item delimiter is 'aa', the items of 'baaa' are completely > different. What happens when the item delimiter has combining > characters and we're matching the precombined version? Not reversing the LTR-delimiter to a RTL-delimiter changes the delimiter: Isn't it planned to introduce RTL-multichar-delimiters to solve this? > For a more simple example of the issues here, what are the backward > and forward words of > "String without closing quote RTL and LTR (should) have exactly the same words/truewords (seen as a counted set) and the same number of words/truewords. Right? Anyway, this is not my point, because words/truewords cannot be empty (except as the non-existent ones 'out-of-bounds') contrary to items or lines. My point is, that a _trailing_ LTR delimiter 'item' or 'line' that is ignored becomes a _leading_ RTL delimiter (delimiter also RTL), for the same string. Thus the number of items or lines increases by one, because the LTR ignored empty 'item' or 'line' becomes a RTL not-ignored empty 'item' or 'line' respectively. And the result of "empty is among the items of" (should be an order-independent "element-of-check") may switch from LTR-false to RTL-true, for the same string, and for the same one-char-delimiter (or also reversed multichar-delimiter). Salut, Hermann From mark at livecode.com Sun Aug 21 10:49:41 2016 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2016 15:49:41 +0100 Subject: Backwards compatibility or sanity? help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2499E0BA-B5A9-4968-975E-742BE18BA658@livecode.com> Perhaps there's a misunderstanding here... If when you refer to rtl to mean rtl languages (such as Arabic) then there is nothing to do - rtl languages are stored in memory in logical order - ie the same way round as ltr languages. It is just the display which is changed. If you mean doing chunk searching from high indicies to low then that would just be equivalent to reversing the order of the chars in the target string and then using the current operations on it (from what you've said about the suggested semantics). Can you clarify your use-case? Warmest Regards, Mark. Sent from my iPhone > On 21 Aug 2016, at 15:26, hh wrote: > > Ali, > probably it's about time that you give at RTL-lesson/blog/tutorial? > Would be very appreciated. > >> Ali wrote: >> the number of items in 'ab' is not an invariant of its read order, >> unless you reverse the characters in the delimiter too. >> When the item delimiter is 'aa', the items of 'baaa' are completely >> different. What happens when the item delimiter has combining >> characters and we're matching the precombined version? > > Not reversing the LTR-delimiter to a RTL-delimiter changes the delimiter: > Isn't it planned to introduce RTL-multichar-delimiters to solve this? > >> For a more simple example of the issues here, what are the backward >> and forward words of >> "String without closing quote > > RTL and LTR (should) have exactly the same words/truewords (seen as a counted > set) and the same number of words/truewords. Right? > > Anyway, this is not my point, because words/truewords cannot be empty > (except as the non-existent ones 'out-of-bounds') contrary to items or lines. > > My point is, that a _trailing_ LTR delimiter 'item' or 'line' that is ignored > becomes a _leading_ RTL delimiter (delimiter also RTL), for the same string. > > Thus the number of items or lines increases by one, because the LTR ignored empty > 'item' or 'line' becomes a RTL not-ignored empty 'item' or 'line' respectively. > And the result of "empty is among the items of" (should be an order-independent > "element-of-check") may switch from LTR-false to RTL-true, for the same string, > and for the same one-char-delimiter (or also reversed multichar-delimiter). > > Salut, Hermann > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From fraser.gordon at livecode.com Sun Aug 21 11:56:11 2016 From: fraser.gordon at livecode.com (Fraser Gordon) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2016 16:56:11 +0100 Subject: Backwards compatibility or sanity? help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9533056b-956f-9d58-bb00-64047d02dee6@livecode.com> On 21/08/2016 15:26, hh wrote: > Ali, > probably it's about time that you give at RTL-lesson/blog/tutorial? > Would be very appreciated. > >> Ali wrote: >> the number of items in 'ab' is not an invariant of its read order, >> unless you reverse the characters in the delimiter too. >> When the item delimiter is 'aa', the items of 'baaa' are completely >> different. What happens when the item delimiter has combining >> characters and we're matching the precombined version? > Not reversing the LTR-delimiter to a RTL-delimiter changes the delimiter: > Isn't it planned to introduce RTL-multichar-delimiters to solve this? > >> For a more simple example of the issues here, what are the backward >> and forward words of >> "String without closing quote > RTL and LTR (should) have exactly the same words/truewords (seen as a counted > set) and the same number of words/truewords. Right? > > Anyway, this is not my point, because words/truewords cannot be empty > (except as the non-existent ones 'out-of-bounds') contrary to items or lines. > > My point is, that a _trailing_ LTR delimiter 'item' or 'line' that is ignored > becomes a _leading_ RTL delimiter (delimiter also RTL), for the same string. > > Thus the number of items or lines increases by one, because the LTR ignored empty > 'item' or 'line' becomes a RTL not-ignored empty 'item' or 'line' respectively. > And the result of "empty is among the items of" (should be an order-independent > "element-of-check") may switch from LTR-false to RTL-true, for the same string, > and for the same one-char-delimiter (or also reversed multichar-delimiter). > > Salut, Hermann I think there's a bit of a misunderstanding here about how LiveCode handles LTR and RTL: the two are only different when being displayed in a field. At all other times, they are exactly the same. LiveCode always stores text in reading order (that is, the order that the person familiar with the LTR/RTL language in question would read the words) not the order that the words would be displayed on screen. Using the convention in Unicode where LTR text is in lowercase and RTL is in uppercase, the string displayed as three,TWO,ONE would have in-memory storage order of ENO,OWT,three and, therefore, the items of the string would be "ONE", "TWO" and "three" (in that order). If done otherwise, inserting a small piece of RTL text into a larger LTR list would completely break processing! Whereas, this way, "first" is a completely language-neutral concept. The fact that the first item appears on the left-hand side is simply because we're using an LTR language, not because LiveCode counts from the left. The reason "three,TWO,ONE" has the first item displayed on the right is because, in the absence of other information, the first LTR/RTL character in the string determines the primary display order. If the string had another item "zero" inserted before the first item, the display order would change to zero,ONE,TWO,three with a storage order of zero,ENO,OWT,three Again, only display cares about LTR/RTL. For every other purpose, strings are sequences of characters with no inherent direction. If you're feeling confused about LTR/RTL, remember this: don't do anything differently. Pretend it doesn't exist and LiveCode will do all the hard work for you. There is nothing special about it except that characters are displayed in a different order. Fraser From pmbrig at gmail.com Sun Aug 21 12:16:40 2016 From: pmbrig at gmail.com (Peter M. Brigham) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2016 12:16:40 -0400 Subject: Wouldn't it be neat... In-Reply-To: <6f850351-2e06-404c-af37-7fca20b3c560@Spark> References: <86a8f7fa-b09a-452c-b866-8eb665855234@Spark> <53FBBAC8-5125-419A-A36E-4AB95F27B676@appisle.net> <6f850351-2e06-404c-af37-7fca20b3c560@Spark> Message-ID: On Aug 21, 2016, at 10:24 AM, me at jerrydaniels.com wrote: > Trapping the commankeydown message is the easiest way to automate quoting. Rather than altering the script field behavior, I'd recommend using a front script. Just make sure you pass the keys you're not using! Here's my version of Jacques' frontscript. It includes Jacques' "script paint" for the script editor (hover over a word and press the key combination, and the word hovered over is put into the current selection) ? very useful to avoid mistyping of variable names. I also incorporated her "getPaint" function (select an image in LC, type the key combination, and choose a png or jpg from disc and that image will be poured into the selected LC image object). Also, I incorporated an insertDate() function. In my version, all these shortcuts are triggered by a control-option- (I work on a Mac), but you could change this easily. -- Peter Peter M. Brigham pmbrig at gmail.com --------- on controlkeydown whichKey -- put this in a frontscript universally available in LC put the long name of the target into tarName put the shiftkey is down into shK switch whichKey case "'" -- put quotes around the selection if not shK then pass controlkeydown if "field" is not in tarName then pass controlkeydown if "revNewScriptEditor" is not in tarName then pass controlkeydown -- you could take the above line out if you want this in all LC fields get the selection put q(it) into the selection if it = "" then put the selectedChunk into tSel put word 4 of tSel into word 2 of tSel put (word 4 of tSel) - 1 into word 4 of tSel select tSel end if break case "9" case "0" -- put parens around the selection if not shK then pass controlkeydown if "field" is not in tarName then pass controlkeydown if "revNewScriptEditor" is not in tarName then pass controlkeydown -- you could take the above line out if you want this in all LC fields get the selection put "(" & it & ")" into the selection if it = "" then put the selectedChunk into tSel put word 4 of tSel into word 2 of tSel put (word 4 of tSel) - 1 into word 4 of tSel select tSel end if break case "[" case "]" -- put brackets around the selection if not shK then pass controlkeydown if "field" is not in tarName then pass controlkeydown if "revNewScriptEditor" is not in tarName then pass controlkeydown -- you could take the above line out if you want this in all LC fields get the selection put "[" & it & "]" into the selection if it = "" then put the selectedChunk into tSel put word 4 of tSel into word 2 of tSel put (word 4 of tSel) - 1 into word 4 of tSel select tSel end if break case " " -- scriptPaint if not shK then pass controlkeydown if "field" is not in tarName then pass controlkeydown if "revNewScriptEditor" is not in tarName then pass controlkeydown put the mouseText into the selection break case "d" -- insert date put the shiftKey is down into wantLongDate insertDate wantLongDate break case "i" -- getPaint if not shK then exit controlkeydown if the selobj = "" then answer "Select an image first." exit controlkeydown else if word 1 of (the name of the selobj) <> "image" then answer "You must select an image." exit controlkeydown end if answer file "Choose replacement image:" if it = empty then exit to top put url ("binfile:" & it) into the selobj break default pass controlkeydown end switch end controlkeydown on insertDate getLongDate -- control-d inserts short date, control-shift-d inserts long date -- see the controlkeydown handler for implementation -- note: Windows users can implement this with other modifier keys -- put these scripts into a frontscript so it is available anywhere in LC -- requires controlkeydown put the selectedChunk into selCh if selCh = empty then exit insertDate put word -1 of selCh into fldNbr put word 4 of selCh into theCharNbr put the selectedtext into selText put length(selText) into origLength if getLongDate then -- long date put sr(item 2 to 3 of the long date) into tDate else -- short date put the short date into tDate end if put tDate into the selectedchunk select after char (theCharNbr + length(tDate) - origLength) of fld fldNbr end insertDate From pmbrig at gmail.com Sun Aug 21 12:26:01 2016 From: pmbrig at gmail.com (Peter M. Brigham) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2016 12:26:01 -0400 Subject: wouldn't it be neat... Message-ID: <918020DC-01CF-4A4C-B66A-19BF6DAEFB82@gmail.com> Sorry, forgot to include the little utility script q(): on q tString return quote and tString and quote end q The full frontscript then is: ------- on controlkeydown whichKey -- put this in a frontscript universally available in LC put the long name of the target into tarName put the shiftkey is down into shK switch whichKey case "'" -- put quotes around the selection if not shK then pass controlkeydown if "field" is not in tarName then pass controlkeydown if "revNewScriptEditor" is not in tarName then pass controlkeydown -- you could take the above line out if you want this in all LC fields get the selection put q(it) into the selection if it = "" then put the selectedChunk into tSel put word 4 of tSel into word 2 of tSel put (word 4 of tSel) - 1 into word 4 of tSel select tSel end if break case "9" case "0" -- put parens around the selection if not shK then pass controlkeydown if "field" is not in tarName then pass controlkeydown if "revNewScriptEditor" is not in tarName then pass controlkeydown -- you could take the above line out if you want this in all LC fields get the selection put "(" & it & ")" into the selection if it = "" then put the selectedChunk into tSel put word 4 of tSel into word 2 of tSel put (word 4 of tSel) - 1 into word 4 of tSel select tSel end if break case "[" case "]" -- put brackets around the selection if not shK then pass controlkeydown if "field" is not in tarName then pass controlkeydown if "revNewScriptEditor" is not in tarName then pass controlkeydown -- you could take the above line out if you want this in all LC fields get the selection put "[" & it & "]" into the selection if it = "" then put the selectedChunk into tSel put word 4 of tSel into word 2 of tSel put (word 4 of tSel) - 1 into word 4 of tSel select tSel end if break case " " -- scriptPaint if not shK then pass controlkeydown if "field" is not in tarName then pass controlkeydown if "revNewScriptEditor" is not in tarName then pass controlkeydown put the mouseText into the selection break case "d" -- insert date put the shiftKey is down into wantLongDate insertDate wantLongDate break case "i" -- getPaint if not shK then exit controlkeydown if the selobj = "" then answer "Select an image first." exit controlkeydown else if word 1 of (the name of the selobj) <> "image" then answer "You must select an image." exit controlkeydown end if answer file "Choose replacement image:" if it = empty then exit to top put url ("binfile:" & it) into the selobj break default pass controlkeydown end switch end controlkeydown on insertDate getLongDate -- control-d inserts short date, control-shift-d inserts long date -- see the controlkeydown handler for implementation -- note: Windows users can implement this with other modifier keys -- put these scripts into a frontscript so it is available anywhere in LC -- requires controlkeydown put the selectedChunk into selCh if selCh = empty then exit insertDate put word -1 of selCh into fldNbr put word 4 of selCh into theCharNbr put the selectedtext into selText put length(selText) into origLength if getLongDate then -- long date put sr(item 2 to 3 of the long date) into tDate else -- short date put the short date into tDate end if put tDate into the selectedchunk select after char (theCharNbr + length(tDate) - origLength) of fld fldNbr end insertDate on q tString return quote and tString and quote end q ------- -- Peter Peter M. Brigham pmbrig at gmail.com From dochawk at gmail.com Sun Aug 21 12:28:23 2016 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2016 09:28:23 -0700 Subject: Wouldn't it be neat... In-Reply-To: References: <86a8f7fa-b09a-452c-b866-8eb665855234@Spark> <53FBBAC8-5125-419A-A36E-4AB95F27B676@appisle.net> Message-ID: On Sat, Aug 20, 2016 at 8:29 PM, Mike Bonner wrote: > Made a button with this.. > on mouseUp > I'd actually go with popping up a script on mouseDown . . . I have somewhat more elaborate code from mouseover popups in my application, on mouseDown btNo switch case (btNo =2) AND (the selectedText is not empty) then popup button chooseTextSurround break ... end switch end mouseDown I actually palette a stack, but that's more for customization and to have a scrollable list available, as i recall -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From hh at hyperhh.de Sun Aug 21 14:06:48 2016 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2016 20:06:48 +0200 Subject: Backwards compatibility or sanity? help Message-ID: <154DAE33-D45D-443B-AE25-F052955A3F9F@hyperhh.de> Thank you all very much for the detailed and patient information. Yes, there was a big misunderstanding about RTL/LTR by me, because language-script directions can be deliberately mixed ('bidirectional', as I read in an LC 7 introductory blog). From that I concluded erroneously a wrong in-memory storage order. Also languages that can be written 'bidirectional', in not only one script, or (quoted) passages in a language script opposite to the current direction can make the string in question deliberately complicated (at least for me). I think that I understand your explanations (hope so..). --> Except the case of a trailing item delimiter, Monte's original --> thread-question. If a string has the in-memory storage order of "ENO,OWT,". Is empty among its items? What is its display? === > Mark W. wrote: > Perhaps there's a misunderstanding here... > > If when you refer to rtl to mean rtl languages (such as Arabic) then there > is nothing to do - rtl languages are stored in memory in logical order - ie the > same way round as ltr languages. It is just the display which is changed. > > If you mean doing chunk searching from high indicies to low then that would just > be equivalent to reversing the order of the chars in the target string and then > using the current operations on it (from what you've said about the suggested > semantics). === > Fraser G. wrote: > I think there's a bit of a misunderstanding here about how LiveCode > handles LTR and RTL: the two are only different when being displayed in > a field. At all other times, they are exactly the same. LiveCode always > stores text in reading order (that is, the order that the person > familiar with the LTR/RTL language in question would read the words) not > the order that the words would be displayed on screen. Using the > convention in Unicode where LTR text is in lowercase and RTL is in > uppercase, the string displayed as > > three,TWO,ONE > > would have in-memory storage order of > > ENO,OWT,three > > and, therefore, the items of the string would be "ONE", "TWO" and > "three" (in that order). If done otherwise, inserting a small piece of > RTL text into a larger LTR list would completely break processing! > Whereas, this way, "first" is a completely language-neutral concept. The > fact that the first item appears on the left-hand side is simply because > we're using an LTR language, not because LiveCode counts from the left. > > The reason "three,TWO,ONE" has the first item displayed on the right is > because, in the absence of other information, the first LTR/RTL > character in the string determines the primary display order. If the > string had another item "zero" inserted before the first item, the > display order would change to > > zero,ONE,TWO,three > > with a storage order of > > zero,ENO,OWT,three > > Again, only display cares about LTR/RTL. For every other purpose, > strings are sequences of characters with no inherent direction. > > If you're feeling confused about LTR/RTL, remember this: don't do > anything differently. Pretend it doesn't exist and LiveCode will do all > the hard work for you. There is nothing special about it except that > characters are displayed in a different order. === > Hermann H. wrote: >> Ali, >> probably it's about time that you give at RTL-lesson/blog/tutorial? >> Would be very appreciated. >> >>> Ali wrote: >>> the number of items in 'ab' is not an invariant of its read order, >>> unless you reverse the characters in the delimiter too. >>> When the item delimiter is 'aa', the items of 'baaa' are completely >>> different. What happens when the item delimiter has combining >>> characters and we're matching the precombined version? >> >> Not reversing the LTR-delimiter to a RTL-delimiter changes the delimiter: >> Isn't it planned to introduce RTL-multichar-delimiters to solve this? >> >>> For a more simple example of the issues here, what are the backward >>> and forward words of >>> "String without closing quote >> >> RTL and LTR (should) have exactly the same words/truewords (seen as a counted >> set) and the same number of words/truewords. Right? >> >> Anyway, this is not my point, because words/truewords cannot be empty >> (except as the non-existent ones 'out-of-bounds') contrary to items or lines. >> >> My point is, that a _trailing_ LTR delimiter 'item' or 'line' that is ignored >> becomes a _leading_ RTL delimiter (delimiter also RTL), for the same string. >> >> Thus the number of items or lines increases by one, because the LTR ignored empty >> 'item' or 'line' becomes a RTL not-ignored empty 'item' or 'line' respectively. >> And the result of "empty is among the items of" (should be an order-independent >> "element-of-check") may switch from LTR-false to RTL-true, for the same string, >> and for the same one-char-delimiter (or also reversed multichar-delimiter). > From alex at tweedly.net Sun Aug 21 17:53:55 2016 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2016 22:53:55 +0100 Subject: The Joy of Removing Features - Part 2: Finding / removing duplicate files / photos. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Al, no, nothing as adventurous or ambitious as that :-) 'interesting' in this context is really more about where / whether the photo belongs than about the photo content itself. I'll be deciding the fate of the photos myself - and trying to find ways of doing it that make the reward (fewer photos, less disk space used) be worth the cost (time spent in deciding their fates). Of course, I know that the time developing the app/tool itself won't be justified, except that counts as a reward, not as a cost :-) -- Alex. On 20/08/2016 04:04, Alejandro Tejada wrote: > Hi Alex, > > How are you going to remove uninteresting photos? > Using an Artificial Inteligence online API? > > https://www.quora.com/Which-company-has-the-best-image-recognition-APIs-in-the-market-place-today > > https://cloud.google.com/vision/ > > In the LC Forum there is a very useful stack that employs > OpenClipArt.org API to display PNG and download > SVG files from this clipart website. > > http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=27245 > > Al > > On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 00:20:40 +0100 > Alex Tweedly wrote: > [snip] >> Part 4 will (probably) describe an app for removing uninteresting photos. > [snip] > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From alex at tweedly.net Sun Aug 21 18:40:16 2016 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2016 23:40:16 +0100 Subject: Performance issues LC8 versus earlier versions. Message-ID: <1561c153-aabf-75ca-70b6-ae04bc461570@tweedly.net> I just discovered that part of my simple benchmark code I was doing for my photo apps was incorrect. I was being caught out (I think) by the implementation of 'copy-on-write' in LC8. My simple benchmark did (in essence) put URL("binfile:/path/to/verylargefile.jpg") into tData1 put tData1 into tData2 if tData1 = tData2 then .... Now in earlier versions of LC, it would actually *do* that comparison. But in LC8 it doesn't - since there's been no further write done to either variable, they are references to the same piece of data, and hence the time to do it is effectively 0, whereas back in LC6.7 that comparison took 20ms. Sadly, having fixed it to be a proper benchmark by changing the code to be effectively, put URL("binfile:/path/to/verylargefile.jpg") into tData1 put URL("binfile:/path/to/verylargefile.jpg") into tData2 if tData1 = tData2 then .... I now find that LC6.7 still takes 20ms, but LC8.1 now takes 40ms - a 2x performance loss. I was about to create a QCC report, but found that there are a number of performance issues confirmed but still outstanding, and I suspect this could be a duplicate of one of those (15448 also discovered while working on JPG files, reported by me against LC7 over a year ago). I'm hoping to get some idea from the team when they might tackle these performance degradations in non-Unicode related code, or whether I should just go back to an earlier version for now. Thanks -- Alex. From monte at appisle.net Sun Aug 21 19:45:31 2016 From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 09:45:31 +1000 Subject: Performance issues LC8 versus earlier versions. In-Reply-To: <1561c153-aabf-75ca-70b6-ae04bc461570@tweedly.net> References: <1561c153-aabf-75ca-70b6-ae04bc461570@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <8B703496-9A99-40B4-B378-88537FC8C73C@appisle.net> Hi Alex It is always good to have them in the bug db so when know what people are running into. I know there was a big push during the LC 8 DP phase to try and get performance closer to LC 6. Actually after looking into this I wouldn't mind seeing your benchmark script as I can?t really see how MCDataIsEqualTo could be improved all that much. It first checks if the byte counts match (in your case it should return true here) and then uses memcmp to compare the data in memory directly. While it?s unrelated to LC 8 performance I?d personally be interested to know if taking an md5 or sha1 digest of each file and then comparing that would be faster. Probably not in a one off but this would be particularly critical if you are regularly comparing the same file with others. Also you probably want to set the caseSensitive to true for the comparisons. Cheers Monte > On 22 Aug 2016, at 8:40 AM, Alex Tweedly wrote: > > I'm hoping to get some idea from the team when they might tackle these performance degradations in non-Unicode related code, or whether I should just go back to an earlier version for now. From irog at mac.com Sun Aug 21 20:35:17 2016 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2016 17:35:17 -0700 Subject: Wouldn't it be neat... In-Reply-To: References: <86a8f7fa-b09a-452c-b866-8eb665855234@Spark> <53FBBAC8-5125-419A-A36E-4AB95F27B676@appisle.net> Message-ID: <091A45F2-5BF0-40EC-BFB0-2B3D8A972FC7@mac.com> Yes, the selected text is deselected when clicking a button on the Mac. Too bad . . . I really like the simplicity of your idea. > On Aug 21, 2016, at 4:36 AM, Mike Bonner wrote: > > Do as monty suggested and hilite the chunk you want to quote and click the > button. Though it just popped into my head.. If you're on a mac, and click > a button while text is selected.. does it de-select the chunk? From irog at mac.com Sun Aug 21 20:37:07 2016 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2016 17:37:07 -0700 Subject: wouldn't it be neat... In-Reply-To: <918020DC-01CF-4A4C-B66A-19BF6DAEFB82@gmail.com> References: <918020DC-01CF-4A4C-B66A-19BF6DAEFB82@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3D4D228E-EFDD-4C52-BA0F-5BFC38A02378@mac.com> Thanks for this, Peter, I?m going to give it a try? > On Aug 21, 2016, at 9:26 AM, Peter M. Brigham wrote: > > Sorry, forgot to include the little utility script q(): > > on q tString > return quote and tString and quote > end q > > The full frontscript then is: > > ------- > > on controlkeydown whichKey > -- put this in a frontscript universally available in LC > put the long name of the target into tarName > put the shiftkey is down into shK > switch whichKey > case "'" -- put quotes around the selection > if not shK then pass controlkeydown > if "field" is not in tarName then pass controlkeydown > if "revNewScriptEditor" is not in tarName then pass controlkeydown > -- you could take the above line out if you want this in all LC fields > get the selection > put q(it) into the selection > if it = "" then > put the selectedChunk into tSel > put word 4 of tSel into word 2 of tSel > put (word 4 of tSel) - 1 into word 4 of tSel > select tSel > end if > break > case "9" > case "0" -- put parens around the selection > if not shK then pass controlkeydown > if "field" is not in tarName then pass controlkeydown > if "revNewScriptEditor" is not in tarName then pass controlkeydown > -- you could take the above line out if you want this in all LC fields > get the selection > put "(" & it & ")" into the selection > if it = "" then > put the selectedChunk into tSel > put word 4 of tSel into word 2 of tSel > put (word 4 of tSel) - 1 into word 4 of tSel > select tSel > end if > break > case "[" > case "]" -- put brackets around the selection > if not shK then pass controlkeydown > if "field" is not in tarName then pass controlkeydown > if "revNewScriptEditor" is not in tarName then pass controlkeydown > -- you could take the above line out if you want this in all LC fields > get the selection > put "[" & it & "]" into the selection > if it = "" then > put the selectedChunk into tSel > put word 4 of tSel into word 2 of tSel > put (word 4 of tSel) - 1 into word 4 of tSel > select tSel > end if > break > case " " -- scriptPaint > if not shK then pass controlkeydown > if "field" is not in tarName then pass controlkeydown > if "revNewScriptEditor" is not in tarName then pass controlkeydown > put the mouseText into the selection > break > case "d" > -- insert date > put the shiftKey is down into wantLongDate > insertDate wantLongDate > break > case "i" -- getPaint > if not shK then exit controlkeydown > if the selobj = "" then > answer "Select an image first." > exit controlkeydown > else if word 1 of (the name of the selobj) <> "image" then > answer "You must select an image." > exit controlkeydown > end if > answer file "Choose replacement image:" > if it = empty then exit to top > put url ("binfile:" & it) into the selobj > break > default > pass controlkeydown > end switch > end controlkeydown > > on insertDate getLongDate > -- control-d inserts short date, control-shift-d inserts long date > -- see the controlkeydown handler for implementation > -- note: Windows users can implement this with other modifier keys > -- put these scripts into a frontscript so it is available anywhere in LC > -- requires controlkeydown > > put the selectedChunk into selCh > if selCh = empty then exit insertDate > put word -1 of selCh into fldNbr > put word 4 of selCh into theCharNbr > put the selectedtext into selText > put length(selText) into origLength > if getLongDate then > -- long date > put sr(item 2 to 3 of the long date) into tDate > else > -- short date > put the short date into tDate > end if > put tDate into the selectedchunk > select after char (theCharNbr + length(tDate) - origLength) of fld fldNbr > end insertDate > > on q tString > return quote and tString and quote > end q > > ------- > > -- Peter > > Peter M. Brigham > pmbrig at gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bogdanoff at me.com Mon Aug 22 00:08:02 2016 From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 00:08:02 -0400 Subject: Wouldn't it be neat... In-Reply-To: <091A45F2-5BF0-40EC-BFB0-2B3D8A972FC7@mac.com> References: <86a8f7fa-b09a-452c-b866-8eb665855234@Spark> <53FBBAC8-5125-419A-A36E-4AB95F27B676@appisle.net> <091A45F2-5BF0-40EC-BFB0-2B3D8A972FC7@mac.com> Message-ID: <7F5AB79D-0157-466E-B7AF-2A42F388592D@me.com> Yes, it deselects the text AFTER it gets the selectedChunk: char x to z of field y, so you could reselect that same text. Peter Bogdanoff > On Aug 21, 2016, at 8:35 PM, Roger Guay wrote: > > Yes, the selected text is deselected when clicking a button on the Mac. Too bad . . . I really like the simplicity of your idea. > > >> On Aug 21, 2016, at 4:36 AM, Mike Bonner wrote: >> >> Do as monty suggested and hilite the chunk you want to quote and click the >> button. Though it just popped into my head.. If you're on a mac, and click >> a button while text is selected.. does it de-select the chunk? > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Aug 22 01:38:20 2016 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 00:38:20 -0500 Subject: TSNet - Previous request not completed Message-ID: <1cadbb2c-d87f-3590-146f-0b164d2bdc18@hyperactivesw.com> Using an Indy license, I'm getting a lot of "previous request not completed" errors when trying to POST to a server. In the past, connectivity would eventually resume when a new request was sent. With TSNet, no more requests will ever complete no matter how long you wait or what URLs you request. The error simply repeats over and over until LC is relaunched or the standalone is restarted. Is there is a way to force a reset? I tried "libURLresetAll" and LC crashed. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From monte at appisle.net Mon Aug 22 01:41:11 2016 From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 15:41:11 +1000 Subject: TSNet - Previous request not completed In-Reply-To: <1cadbb2c-d87f-3590-146f-0b164d2bdc18@hyperactivesw.com> References: <1cadbb2c-d87f-3590-146f-0b164d2bdc18@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: > On 22 Aug 2016, at 3:38 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > > Using an Indy license, I'm getting a lot of "previous request not completed" errors when trying to POST to a server. In the past, connectivity would eventually resume when a new request was sent. With TSNet, no more requests will ever complete no matter how long you wait or what URLs you request. The error simply repeats over and over until LC is relaunched or the standalone is restarted. > > Is there is a way to force a reset? I tried "libURLresetAll" and LC crashed. Could you open bug reports on both of these issues Jacque? I suspect neither are intended behavior! Cheers Monte From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Aug 22 01:52:43 2016 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 00:52:43 -0500 Subject: Wouldn't it be neat... In-Reply-To: References: <86a8f7fa-b09a-452c-b866-8eb665855234@Spark> <53FBBAC8-5125-419A-A36E-4AB95F27B676@appisle.net> <6f850351-2e06-404c-af37-7fca20b3c560@Spark> Message-ID: Here's my original, which does mess up "undo", but it's a start. I use Command-Shift- to trigger the actions. Cmd-Shift-space, for example, picks up the text under the mouse and puts it into the current selection. I use that almost exclusively instead of copy/paste to enter variable names without typos. Quotes, brackets, and a few other things are covered. In the case of quotes and parentheses where there is no selection, it places a paired set of characters and moves the insertion point between them. on commandKeyDown whichKey if ("editor field" is not in the name of the target and "script" is not in the name of the target) \ or the shiftkey is not down then pass commandKeyDown switch whichKey case quote case "'" get the selection put quote & it & quote into the selection if it = "" then put the selectedchunk into tSel put word 4 of tSel into word 2 of tSel put (word 4 of tSel) - 1 into word 4 of tSel select tSel end if break case "v" -- paste only plain text put the clipboardData["text"] into the selection break case "9" case "0" case "(" case ")" get the selection put "(" & it & ")" into the selection if it = "" then put the selectedchunk into tSel put word 4 of tSel into word 2 of tSel put (word 4 of tSel) - 1 into word 4 of tSel select tSel end if break case "[" case "]" case "{" case "}" get the selection put "[" & it & "]" into the selection if it = "" then put the selectedchunk into tSel put word 4 of tSel into word 2 of tSel put (word 4 of tSel) - 1 into word 4 of tSel select tSel end if break case " " -- scriptPaint put the mousetext into the selection break default pass commandKeyDown end switch setEditorDirty end commandKeyDown private command setEditorDirty -- make the editor know things changed type space delete char (word 4 of the selectedchunk) of the target end setEditorDirty -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From me at jerrydaniels.com Mon Aug 22 02:43:22 2016 From: me at jerrydaniels.com (me at jerrydaniels.com) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 01:43:22 -0500 Subject: Wouldn't it be neat... In-Reply-To: References: <86a8f7fa-b09a-452c-b866-8eb665855234@Spark> <53FBBAC8-5125-419A-A36E-4AB95F27B676@appisle.net> <6f850351-2e06-404c-af37-7fca20b3c560@Spark> Message-ID: If you use the clipboarddata to alter your scripts, you get undo to work again. On Aug 22, 2016, 12:53 AM -0500, J. Landman Gay , wrote: > Here's my original, which does mess up "undo", but it's a start. I use > Command-Shift- to trigger the actions. Cmd-Shift-space, for > example, picks up the text under the mouse and puts it into the current > selection. I use that almost exclusively instead of copy/paste to enter > variable names without typos. Quotes, brackets, and a few other things > are covered. In the case of quotes and parentheses where there is no > selection, it places a paired set of characters and moves the insertion > point between them. > > on commandKeyDown whichKey > if ("editor field" is not in the name of the target and "script" is > not in the name of the target) \ > or the shiftkey is not down > then pass commandKeyDown > switch whichKey > case quote > case "'" > get the selection > put quote & it & quote into the selection > if it = "" then > put the selectedchunk into tSel > put word 4 of tSel into word 2 of tSel > put (word 4 of tSel) - 1 into word 4 of tSel > select tSel > end if > break > case "v" -- paste only plain text > put the clipboardData["text"] into the selection > break > case "9" > case "0" > case "(" > case ")" > get the selection > put "(" & it & ")" into the selection > if it = "" then > put the selectedchunk into tSel > put word 4 of tSel into word 2 of tSel > put (word 4 of tSel) - 1 into word 4 of tSel > select tSel > end if > break > case "[" > case "]" > case "{" > case "}" > get the selection > put "[" & it & "]" into the selection > if it = "" then > put the selectedchunk into tSel > put word 4 of tSel into word 2 of tSel > put (word 4 of tSel) - 1 into word 4 of tSel > select tSel > end if > break > case " " -- scriptPaint > put the mousetext into the selection > break > default > pass commandKeyDown > end switch > setEditorDirty > end commandKeyDown > > private command setEditorDirty -- make the editor know things changed > type space > delete char (word 4 of the selectedchunk) of the target > end setEditorDirty > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From monte at appisle.net Mon Aug 22 07:21:27 2016 From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 21:21:27 +1000 Subject: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 47 Message-ID: <3FCFBBC1-E90D-4CCD-BEBD-C4171CB1F701@appisle.net> Hi LiveCoders Read about new developments in LiveCode open source and the open source community in today's edition of the "This Week in LiveCode" newsletter! Read issue #42 here: http://goo.gl/O4kcw0 This is a weekly newsletter about LiveCode, focussing on what's been going on in and around the open source project. New issues will be released weekly on Mondays. We have a dedicated mailing list that will deliver each issue directly to you e-mail, so you don't miss any! Are you doing something interesting with LiveCode Community Edition? Please get in touch and get it featured in "This Week in LiveCode?! Cheers Monte From benr_mc at cogapp.com Mon Aug 22 08:47:27 2016 From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 13:47:27 +0100 Subject: Garbage collection (crashing on Windows) In-Reply-To: <2e32b41260a5c4d38c983334892b4a8f@livecode.com> References: <58904964-04d1-62de-6ffb-c6fd464eb974@cogapp.com> <2e32b41260a5c4d38c983334892b4a8f@livecode.com> Message-ID: <7584f9ee-ecc0-29ca-9715-bb587e167e5a@cogapp.com> Mark, Thanks so much for this detailed and very useful response. A few quick follow-up questions. 1) > https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/askperf/2007/03/23/memory-management-demystifying-3gb/ This looks like a great tip - before I go into the ring with the client's IT dept (always a tricky exercise) can I just check that LiveCode does have the IMAGE_FILE_LARGE_ADDRESS_AWARE flag set in the image header as described in that article? And do you know from which version that is true? (not a question) > We actually changed this mechanism to make it less conservative in > 6.7.11, 7.1.4 and 8.0 onwards. Previously, deleted objects wouldn't get > actually freed until the root event loop runs Aha! Sadly I just updated the app to 6.7.11 without improving the situation (and on an experimental only basis, to 8.1 also, similarly without improvement). 2) > LiveCode doesn't use what is generally referred to as 'garbage collection' > as it generally frees 'things' up as soon as they are no longer referenced. But does 'freed' literally release the memory, or just mark the object as available? Surely you still need to do some kind of garbage collection in order to collapse what may be isolated fragments of 'free' memory? 3) In another thread (20/08/2016 19:44) you just wrote: > For optimization purposes the best approach is to measure the amount of memory *actually* in use before and after any particular operation you perform - just as you do with time when profiling for speed (rather than memory footprint). How can we do this? As noted hasMemory is defunct; heapSpace is Mac only; is there a method I can use to profile the memory usage? Many thanks, Ben On 19/08/2016 18:42, Mark Waddingham wrote: > Hi Ben, > > When I got to the end of this email I remembered something quite pertinent - > you mentioned that the limit you were hitting was 2Gb... One thing to check is > that the install of Windows you are running on cannot be poked to actually > raise this limit to 3Gb: > > https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/askperf/2007/03/23/memory-management-demystifying-3gb/ > > > Perhaps other's with more insider Windows knowledge can chip in there. It will > depend on the machine, the version of Windows and probably lots of other > factors. Given that 'hardware is cheap' compared to rewriting software - if > the windows install being used currently does not use that 'trick', and can > be, you'll probably find you get a fair bit of mileage with a bit of computer > configuration - rather than coding! > > Assuming that cannot be done then... > > On 2016-08-17 19:52, Ben Rubinstein wrote: >> Please refresh my memory: is there any way to cause/allow garbage to >> be collected without ending all script running? > > LiveCode doesn't use what is generally referred to as 'garbage collection' as > it generally frees 'things' up as soon as they are no longer referenced. Now I > say 'generally' because things fall into two classes: > > 1) Values (strings, arrays, data, numbers) > > 2) Objects (stacks, cards, buttons etc.) > > I'll deal with Objects first: > > Objects are deleted as soon as they can be relative to the requirements of the > engine. We actually changed this mechanism to make it less conservative in > 6.7.11, 7.1.4 and 8.0 onwards. Previously, deleted objects wouldn't get > actually freed until the root event loop runs (i.e. when there is no script > running); now they will generally get freed much closer to when they are > deleted, especially if they were created 'at the same level or above' where > the object is deleted. e.g. > > on foo > create control bar > delete control bar > end foo > > Here the delete will free the object immediately (as the engine knows that it > cannot have any internal references to it internally - in particular on the C > stack). > > It sounds like the problem you are having (assuming you aren't creating and > deleting lots of controls) is to do with values and so... > > Values are freed *as soon as* there is no longer any reference to them. In 6.7 > and before that would be whenever a variable is changed (the old value was > released immediately), or whenever the variable goes out of scope (e.g. locals > in a handler get released when the handler ends, script locals are released > when the object is deleted). In 7.0+ this happens as soon as there are no > variables referencing the same instance of the value. e.g. > > (1) local tVariable1, tVariable2 > (2) put "foo" & "bar" into tVariable1 > (3) put tVariable1 into tVariable2 > (4) put empty into tVariable1 > > After step (3), tVariable1 and tVariable2 will reference the same value. At > step (4) the reference tVariable1 holds will be removed, but the value will > not be deleted (from memory) until tVariable2 changes, or goes out of scope. > The general mechanism is that values are shared when copied into different > variables, and are only copied when a variable is mutated. e.g. > > (1) local tVariable1, tVariable2 > (2) put "foo" & "bar" into tVariable1 > (3) put tVariable1 into tVariable2 > (4) put "baz" after tVariable2 > (5) put empty into tVariable1 > > Here, at step (4), the value referenced by tVariable2 will be copied (and so > tVariable1 and tVariable2 will no longer reference the same value), and then > changed. This means that at step (5) the value previously referenced by > tVariable1 *will* be freed, because it is not shared with tVariable2 > (obviously - because tVariable2 is no longer the same value!). > > The reason I was being so paedagogic in the above is that it opens an > opportunity for you to potentially reduce the memory footprint of your dataset > (which sounds like it is what is causing the problem) by doing some > pre-processing and exploiting the fact that values are not copied until they > are modified. Of course, I don't know what the structure of the data you are > processing is - so I'm going to assume you are loading in lots of text files > and breaking them up into pieces, presumably storing in arrays with the > individual array elements being numbers and strings. > > In this case there are a few interesting things to note about the engine's > implementation of values... > > Array keys are *always* shared (up to case). When you do: > > put tElement into tArray[tKey] > > The engine first 'uniques' tKey - this means it ensures that there is only one > copy of tKey (up to case differences) in memory. So - for every single array > in memory which contains a key "foo", the value representing the key "foo" > will not be copied, just referenced from all the arrays. Note that "foo" and > "Foo", whilst referencing the same value (unless caseSensitive is true), will > be stored in memory as different values which leads to memory optimization tip 1: > > When constructing arrays from external data, where the case of the key is > irrelevant use: > put X into tArray[toLower(Y)] -- or toUpper (whichever you prefer) > > For the values bound to by keys, the story is different. If you do: > > put myString & "1" into tArray["foo"] > put myString & "1 into tArray["bar"] > > Then the two values of the keys "foo" and "bar" *will be different*. This is > because they have been constructed differently. > > You can optimize this for memory size by using another array to 'index' your > string values: > > command shareAndStoreKey @xArray, pKey, pValue > set the caseSensitive to true -- this is assuming your values are > sensitive to case > if pValue is not among the keys of sValueCache then > put pValue into sValueCache[pValue] > end if > put sValueCache[pValue] into xArray[pKey] > end command > > After you have processed all your arrays like this, and 'put empty into > sValueCache' - all string elements in your arrays which are case-sensitively > the same will share the same value. > > Of course, you can play the same trick with arrays - although it is a little > more tricky, admittedly. > > So, anyway, before anyone asks 'why doesn't the engine just do this?' > (particularly since it does so for array keys) then the answer is performance. > It is costly to work out which values (which are computed dynamically, or are > substrings of another string in different places) are actually the same - thus > you'd end up saving memory but costing performance if the engine uniqued > *everything*. > > So, the next question is probably going to be, 'why does the engine do it for > array keys then?' and the answer here is because string comparison is slow - > case-less string comparison more so. When you lookup a key in an associative > array, it might well take multiple string comparisons to find. By 'uniquing' > the strings used in array keys, after the engine has processed the lookup > request it is a constant time operation to do each of these comparisons to > find the actual element you want. On balance, this means you save time - > assuming that you are accessing your arrays much more frequently than building > them - which is usually the case. > > Now, all the above I say with caution - the engine may change how it works in > the future. It might become more 'clever' in some cases, and less 'clever' in > others; thus you should only go as far to try and optimize your code for > memory footprint (if you can afford the cost of the pre-processing) if YOU > REALLY NEED TO. > > Clearly, in your (Ben's) case you really do - you are hitting the windows 2Gb > process limit at the moment, and it sounds like it is a batch process running > unattended so an initial 'memory miminization process' run on the dataset is > probably a cost you can afford to pay. > > Anyway, without more details of what you are needing to do the above might be > completely useless... > > Just my 2 pence. > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > From alex at tweedly.net Mon Aug 22 10:22:26 2016 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 15:22:26 +0100 Subject: Performance issues LC8 versus earlier versions. In-Reply-To: <8B703496-9A99-40B4-B378-88537FC8C73C@appisle.net> References: <1561c153-aabf-75ca-70b6-ae04bc461570@tweedly.net> <8B703496-9A99-40B4-B378-88537FC8C73C@appisle.net> Message-ID: Hi Monte, here's the script - the actual file could be any 20Mb or so jpg. on mouseUp put URL ("binfile:/Users/alextweedly/Dropbox (Personal)/Pictures/2016/101_0818/IMGP0021.JPG") into tData1 put URL ("binfile:/Users/alextweedly/Dropbox (Personal)/Pictures/2016/101_0818/IMGP0021.JPG") into tData2 -- put tData1 into tData2 put the millisecs into time1 repeat 5 times if tData1 = tData2 then add 1 to temp end if end repeat put the number of bytes in tData1 && the millisecs - time1 && temp into msg end mouseUp I would not have thought that caseSensitive should matter, since these are bytes not characters - or is that being naive of me ? Would caseSensitive make it faster ? Re md5 for repeated use - yes, it probably is worth doing. My original reasoning (no observed cases of the same size except genuine duplicates) was based on the incorrect benchmark (i.e. MY bug). In fact, I now know there are about 40 examples of this, so I'm probably going to need to reconsider that decision. -- Alex. On 22/08/2016 00:45, Monte Goulding wrote: > Hi Alex > > It is always good to have them in the bug db so when know what people are running into. I know there was a big push during the LC 8 DP phase to try and get performance closer to LC 6. > > Actually after looking into this I wouldn't mind seeing your benchmark script as I can?t really see how MCDataIsEqualTo could be improved all that much. It first checks if the byte counts match (in your case it should return true here) and then uses memcmp to compare the data in memory directly. > > While it?s unrelated to LC 8 performance I?d personally be interested to know if taking an md5 or sha1 digest of each file and then comparing that would be faster. Probably not in a one off but this would be particularly critical if you are regularly comparing the same file with others. Also you probably want to set the caseSensitive to true for the comparisons. > > Cheers > > Monte > >> On 22 Aug 2016, at 8:40 AM, Alex Tweedly wrote: >> >> I'm hoping to get some idea from the team when they might tackle these performance degradations in non-Unicode related code, or whether I should just go back to an earlier version for now. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Aug 22 10:39:08 2016 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 07:39:08 -0700 Subject: Wouldn't it be neat... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8f9abd6d-2905-bf86-0ba9-1b48f70aaf22@fourthworld.com> Mike Bonner wrote: > If you're on a mac, and click a button while text is selected.. does > it de-select the chunk? I seem to remember something like this in > the past, but am not at my mac right now so I can't try it. Clicking a button should only deselect text when the button's traversalOn property is true. If that were not the case it would not be possible to make toolbars that act on text, and such a limitation would be a bug. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Aug 22 10:47:52 2016 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 07:47:52 -0700 Subject: Performance issues LC8 versus earlier versions. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <93fefe2d-4c4d-3245-6e6c-1183e0b09904@fourthworld.com> Alex Tweedly wrote: > Would caseSensitive make it faster ? In theory yes, since it avoids having to run the internal equivalent of toLower on each thing being compared. However in some recent experiments involving pattern matching on text I was unable to measure a difference. That shouldn't be taken as definitive; there are a lot of distracting things going on in the routine I was testing with. I haven't yet done a good isolated test of caseSensitive. > Re md5 for repeated use - yes, it probably is worth doing. The rsync algo offers an md5 option, but by default it compares files based only on mod date and size. The thinking is that if both of those match, the odds of having a changed file are very low. Perhaps an optimal algo in your system would reserve md5 for those cases where size and mod date match, which will eliminate most cases with less CPU time. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From mark at canelasoftware.com Mon Aug 22 11:24:29 2016 From: mark at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 08:24:29 -0700 Subject: Should size be extended to variables? In-Reply-To: <06984D16-BB76-4912-B0D1-779AA79EACD4@livecode.com> References: <21969fc9-927a-9988-c627-4301c1b66d7a@fourthworld.com> <06984D16-BB76-4912-B0D1-779AA79EACD4@livecode.com> Message-ID: <7BB4E05E-A9C8-4F86-ABE4-8906D32EDD67@canelasoftware.com> > On Aug 20, 2016, at 11:44 AM, Mark Waddingham wrote: > > For what purpose? At one point, I needed to know the size of the data (in this case an array) that was to be transferred over the network. LSON and Base64Encoding arrays allows me to get the num of chars of the string. So the problem was solved in a different way. It is not that I need to know how much space the array takes in memory, but how much space it will take to either store and move around in some fashion. Not really a big deal, just a nice to have. Now that I have my current method, I am not sure I would need another method any time soon. Best regards, Mark Talluto livecloud.io canelasoftware.com From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Mon Aug 22 11:55:17 2016 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 11:55:17 -0400 Subject: image recognition Message-ID: Has anybody done any image recognition? I was listening to a podcast over the weekend about how some companies are predicting economic activity by counting cars in parking lots using satellite images. That got me thinking... -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Mon Aug 22 12:08:56 2016 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 19:08:56 +0300 Subject: Moving 2 things at once . . . Message-ID: Well here's an ethnic minority lurking in the woodpile (probably Scottish): One of my pupils has been sweating away all Summer and has just sent me this: Livecode "can't move two things at the same time". Which I know is not true, and remember something about /without waiting/ but don't remember enough! Richmond. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Mon Aug 22 12:19:04 2016 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 19:19:04 +0300 Subject: Moving 2 things at once . . . In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm even more mental than I thought: why did I ask that question at all? https://www.dropbox.com/s/6w8r7p4e2rir6n6/Shift.livecode.zip?dl=0 Richmond. On 22.08.2016 19:08, Richmond wrote: > > Well here's an ethnic minority lurking in the woodpile (probably > Scottish): > > One of my pupils has been sweating away all Summer and has just sent > me this: > > Livecode "can't move two things at the same time". > > Which I know is not true, and remember something about /without waiting/ > > but don't remember enough! > > Richmond. > > From dunbarx at aol.com Mon Aug 22 12:19:10 2016 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 09:19:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Moving 2 things at once . . . In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1471882750408-4707696.post@n4.nabble.com> Richmond. I had posted this to a thread in the forums a few months back. On a new card make a button and four fields. in the buttons script: on mouseUp put 10 into moveTime lock moves repeat with i=1 to 4 move fld i relative "0,60" in moveTime without waiting end repeat unlock moves wait moveTime with messages lock moves repeat with i=1 to 4 move fld i relative "0,-60" in moveTime without waiting end repeat end mouseUp -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Moving-2-things-at-once-tp4707694p4707696.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From me at jerrydaniels.com Mon Aug 22 12:32:04 2016 From: me at jerrydaniels.com (me at jerrydaniels.com) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 11:32:04 -0500 Subject: Strict is in; lax is out Message-ID: <151b46c5-3682-4e37-abec-b9dfdbb234e4@Spark> With the advent of LCB, 'strict' is becoming the watchword in the v8 era. I applaud this new direction. Yes, there's short term discomfort with LCB (learning curve), but in the near-to-long term I believe there will be huge dividends paid to developers with high performance, low maintenance apps. Best, jerry at botz.live From benr_mc at cogapp.com Mon Aug 22 12:42:02 2016 From: benr_mc at cogapp.com (Ben Rubinstein) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 17:42:02 +0100 Subject: Backwards compatibility or sanity? help In-Reply-To: <44EAB54D-0E85-43D0-A555-0FA32292E066@appisle.net> References: <1f4d379d-ff51-59c5-260b-036d02cb0308@fourthworld.com> <44EAB54D-0E85-43D0-A555-0FA32292E066@appisle.net> Message-ID: On 21/08/2016 00:22, Monte Goulding wrote: >> On 21 Aug 2016, at 8:57 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> > >> > It would appear that the current behavior in v8 is a fix that addresses a previously anomalous handling of delimiters in the case of "is among". > That?s my feeling also. We know it impacts a popular library (Animation Engine), however, seeing as any code base that needs to be robust on all versions of LiveCode will need to ensure it doesn?t rely on empty trailing items with no delimiter after them I assume that will be need to be resolved regardless because all the 8.0.x series are impacted and a number of 7.x (we need to determine which ones). FWIW - that's my feeling too. There's no completely pain-free option here: better to take the path of increased consistency with a simple model. Ben From dunbarx at aol.com Mon Aug 22 13:39:34 2016 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx at aol.com) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 13:39:34 -0400 Subject: Strict is in; lax is out In-Reply-To: <151b46c5-3682-4e37-abec-b9dfdbb234e4@Spark> References: <151b46c5-3682-4e37-abec-b9dfdbb234e4@Spark> Message-ID: <156b35606a1-da4-866c@webprd-a12.mail.aol.com> Everything you say is true, modern and relevant. That said, long live lax. Craig Newman -----Original Message----- From: me To: LiveCode List Sent: Mon, Aug 22, 2016 12:34 pm Subject: Strict is in; lax is out With the advent of LCB, 'strict' is becoming the watchword in the v8 era. I applaud this new direction. Yes, there's short term discomfort with LCB (learning curve), but in the near-to-long term I believe there will be huge dividends paid to developers with high performance, low maintenance apps. Best, jerry at botz.live _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From me at jerrydaniels.com Mon Aug 22 14:16:26 2016 From: me at jerrydaniels.com (me at jerrydaniels.com) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 13:16:26 -0500 Subject: Strict is in; lax is out In-Reply-To: <156b35606a1-da4-866c@webprd-a12.mail.aol.com> References: <151b46c5-3682-4e37-abec-b9dfdbb234e4@Spark> <156b35606a1-da4-866c@webprd-a12.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: <083c708b-5234-4135-8b80-ec086af56bbb@Spark> I think it's the cycling thru that spectrum over time that makes the whole thing work. On Aug 22, 2016, 12:39 PM -0500, dunbarx at aol.com, wrote: > Everything you say is true, modern and relevant. > > > That said, long live lax. > > > Craig Newman > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: me To: LiveCode List Sent: Mon, Aug 22, 2016 12:34 pm > Subject: Strict is in; lax is out > > With the advent of LCB, 'strict' is becoming the watchword in the v8 era. I applaud this new direction. Yes, there's short term discomfort with LCB (learning curve), but in the near-to-long term I believe there will be huge dividends paid to developers with high performance, low maintenance apps. > > Best, jerry at botz.live > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Aug 22 15:05:26 2016 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 14:05:26 -0500 Subject: TSNet - Previous request not completed In-Reply-To: References: <1cadbb2c-d87f-3590-146f-0b164d2bdc18@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: On 8/22/2016 12:41 AM, Monte Goulding wrote: > >> On 22 Aug 2016, at 3:38 PM, J. Landman Gay >> wrote: >> >> Using an Indy license, I'm getting a lot of "previous request not >> completed" errors when trying to POST to a server. In the past, >> connectivity would eventually resume when a new request was sent. >> With TSNet, no more requests will ever complete no matter how long >> you wait or what URLs you request. The error simply repeats over >> and over until LC is relaunched or the standalone is restarted. >> >> Is there is a way to force a reset? I tried "libURLresetAll" and LC >> crashed. > > Could you open bug reports on both of these issues Jacque? I suspect > neither are intended behavior! I'd already done that but I think I need to revise it a little bit. I was mistaken about the test URLs. It isn't a new URL each time, it's the same one that calls a PHP script on the server. I believe the old libURL had the same behavior; it didn't allow duplicate requests. So that part probably isn't a bug even though I wish it would release the socket eventually. The crash is an issue though, there may be a problem with "resetAll". It would be nice to have a way to tell libURL/TSNet that we want it to forget what it's waiting for and just carry on. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Aug 22 15:07:38 2016 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 14:07:38 -0500 Subject: Wouldn't it be neat... In-Reply-To: References: <86a8f7fa-b09a-452c-b866-8eb665855234@Spark> <53FBBAC8-5125-419A-A36E-4AB95F27B676@appisle.net> <6f850351-2e06-404c-af37-7fca20b3c560@Spark> Message-ID: <826e4fd0-6bc6-070b-087d-70bcf14d8d4d@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/22/2016 1:43 AM, me at jerrydaniels.com wrote: > If you use the clipboarddata to alter your scripts, you get undo to work again. Yeah, though there's a better way to do it that doesn't wipe the user's clipboard. But that isn't my work so I didn't include it here. It's all moot though now that Monte has integrated the feature into the IDE. Yay! -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Mon Aug 22 15:16:01 2016 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 15:16:01 -0400 Subject: Strict is in; lax is out In-Reply-To: <083c708b-5234-4135-8b80-ec086af56bbb@Spark> References: <151b46c5-3682-4e37-abec-b9dfdbb234e4@Spark> <156b35606a1-da4-866c@webprd-a12.mail.aol.com> <083c708b-5234-4135-8b80-ec086af56bbb@Spark> Message-ID: I can't stand strict. That's part of the reason why I choose to use LC instead of C. I would rather have to find and fix typos in variable names than have to coerce type changes when I want to do something with a variable, or have to declare variable after variable after variable in a block of code. How about case-sensitivity? Unfortunately, in LCB there is more of that, as well. It annoys me. Our enterprise system's IDE is case-sensitive, and every time I have to work on it I can't wait to be rid of it. If you read through the code for some of the widgets in LCB, you will either be overjoyed, or roll your eyes. LCB is less bad than most other languages, but lazy compiler authors shouldn't win the day, the same way that the personal trainer doesn't get to tell the client what they're going to be doing for their workout, and grammar checkers don't get to dictate your use of the subjunctive, or lack thereof. And long live synonyms. And beginning sentences or sentence fragments with conjunctions. On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 2:16 PM, wrote: > I think it's the cycling thru that spectrum over time that makes the whole > thing work. > > On Aug 22, 2016, 12:39 PM -0500, dunbarx at aol.com, wrote: > > Everything you say is true, modern and relevant. > > > > > > That said, long live lax. > > > > > > Craig Newman > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: me > To: LiveCode List > Sent: Mon, Aug 22, 2016 12:34 pm > > Subject: Strict is in; lax is out > > > > With the advent of LCB, 'strict' is becoming the watchword in the v8 > era. I applaud this new direction. Yes, there's short term discomfort with > LCB (learning curve), but in the near-to-long term I believe there will be > huge dividends paid to developers with high performance, low maintenance > apps. > > > > Best, jerry at botz.live > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Mon Aug 22 15:17:10 2016 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 15:17:10 -0400 Subject: Wouldn't it be neat... In-Reply-To: <826e4fd0-6bc6-070b-087d-70bcf14d8d4d@hyperactivesw.com> References: <86a8f7fa-b09a-452c-b866-8eb665855234@Spark> <53FBBAC8-5125-419A-A36E-4AB95F27B676@appisle.net> <6f850351-2e06-404c-af37-7fca20b3c560@Spark> <826e4fd0-6bc6-070b-087d-70bcf14d8d4d@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Add this to a long script editor wishlist. On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 3:07 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > On 8/22/2016 1:43 AM, me at jerrydaniels.com wrote: > >> If you use the clipboarddata to alter your scripts, you get undo to work >> again. >> > > Yeah, though there's a better way to do it that doesn't wipe the user's > clipboard. But that isn't my work so I didn't include it here. It's all > moot though now that Monte has integrated the feature into the IDE. Yay! > > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Mon Aug 22 15:22:41 2016 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 15:22:41 -0400 Subject: Strict is in; lax is out In-Reply-To: References: <151b46c5-3682-4e37-abec-b9dfdbb234e4@Spark> <156b35606a1-da4-866c@webprd-a12.mail.aol.com> <083c708b-5234-4135-8b80-ec086af56bbb@Spark> Message-ID: > "LCB is less bad than most other languages" lol On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 3:16 PM, Mike Kerner wrote: > I can't stand strict. That's part of the reason why I choose to use LC > instead of C. I would rather have to find and fix typos in variable names > than have to coerce type changes when I want to do something with a > variable, or have to declare variable after variable after variable in a > block of code. How about case-sensitivity? Unfortunately, in LCB there is > more of that, as well. It annoys me. Our enterprise system's IDE is > case-sensitive, and every time I have to work on it I can't wait to be rid > of it. If you read through the code for some of the widgets in LCB, you > will either be overjoyed, or roll your eyes. LCB is less bad than most > other languages, but lazy compiler authors shouldn't win the day, the same > way that the personal trainer doesn't get to tell the client what they're > going to be doing for their workout, and grammar checkers don't get to > dictate your use of the subjunctive, or lack thereof. > > And long live synonyms. And beginning sentences or sentence fragments with > conjunctions. > > From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Aug 22 15:52:37 2016 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 14:52:37 -0500 Subject: TSNet - Previous request not completed In-Reply-To: References: <1cadbb2c-d87f-3590-146f-0b164d2bdc18@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: On 8/22/2016 2:05 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > I was mistaken about the test URLs. It isn't a new URL each time, it's > the same one that calls a PHP script on the server. I believe the old > libURL had the same behavior; it didn't allow duplicate requests. So > that part probably isn't a bug even though I wish it would release the > socket eventually. Nope, I was right the first time. Any URL will fail after the error is thrown. But Charles has sent me a revised version to test and it's working much better, so expect miracles. :) -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Mon Aug 22 16:01:39 2016 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 23:01:39 +0300 Subject: Moving 2 things at once . . . In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I've just replaced the stack with one that has 2 buttons: one featuring "without waiting" and one without that. The comparison is valuable. https://www.dropbox.com/s/6j7ltdf3scxbmcl/Shift.livecode.zip?dl=0 Richmond. On 22.08.2016 19:19, Richmond wrote: > > I'm even more mental than I thought: why did I ask that question at all? > > /link removed/ > > Richmond. > > > On 22.08.2016 19:08, Richmond wrote: >> >> Well here's an ethnic minority lurking in the woodpile (probably >> Scottish): >> >> One of my pupils has been sweating away all Summer and has just sent >> me this: >> >> Livecode "can't move two things at the same time". >> >> Which I know is not true, and remember something about /without waiting/ >> >> but don't remember enough! >> >> Richmond. >> >> > From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Mon Aug 22 16:09:05 2016 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 23:09:05 +0300 Subject: Strict is in; lax is out In-Reply-To: References: <151b46c5-3682-4e37-abec-b9dfdbb234e4@Spark> <156b35606a1-da4-866c@webprd-a12.mail.aol.com> <083c708b-5234-4135-8b80-ec086af56bbb@Spark> Message-ID: <198991ce-f296-62c7-0dd9-7f88ff94d35e@gmail.com> What I like about Livecode is that it has a multiplicity of ways of achieving things. I have just rescued my BBC Master Compact from Scotland and bought a cable that connects its video-out to a SCART socket: I had forgotten about the 'LET' statement . . . I feel that strict variable declaration would be a backward step, and it would certainly lessen Livecode's value as a teaching tool. One of the selling pionts of the Macintosh in the late 809's and early 90's was its Killer-App: Hypercard, and what "killed" about Hypercard was the closeness of HyperTalk to natural language: something that Livecode has inherited. Please do not chuck that out. Richmond. On 22.08.2016 22:16, Mike Kerner wrote: > I can't stand strict. That's part of the reason why I choose to use LC > instead of C. I would rather have to find and fix typos in variable names > than have to coerce type changes when I want to do something with a > variable, or have to declare variable after variable after variable in a > block of code. How about case-sensitivity? Unfortunately, in LCB there is > more of that, as well. It annoys me. Our enterprise system's IDE is > case-sensitive, and every time I have to work on it I can't wait to be rid > of it. If you read through the code for some of the widgets in LCB, you > will either be overjoyed, or roll your eyes. LCB is less bad than most > other languages, but lazy compiler authors shouldn't win the day, the same > way that the personal trainer doesn't get to tell the client what they're > going to be doing for their workout, and grammar checkers don't get to > dictate your use of the subjunctive, or lack thereof. > > And long live synonyms. And beginning sentences or sentence fragments with > conjunctions. > > > On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 2:16 PM, wrote: > >> I think it's the cycling thru that spectrum over time that makes the whole >> thing work. >> >> On Aug 22, 2016, 12:39 PM -0500, dunbarx at aol.com, wrote: >>> Everything you say is true, modern and relevant. >>> >>> >>> That said, long live lax. >>> >>> >>> Craig Newman >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: me >> To: LiveCode List >> Sent: Mon, Aug 22, 2016 12:34 pm >>> Subject: Strict is in; lax is out >>> >>> With the advent of LCB, 'strict' is becoming the watchword in the v8 >> era. I applaud this new direction. Yes, there's short term discomfort with >> LCB (learning curve), but in the near-to-long term I believe there will be >> huge dividends paid to developers with high performance, low maintenance >> apps. >>> Best, jerry at botz.live >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Aug 22 16:20:45 2016 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 13:20:45 -0700 Subject: Strict is in; lax is out In-Reply-To: <198991ce-f296-62c7-0dd9-7f88ff94d35e@gmail.com> References: <198991ce-f296-62c7-0dd9-7f88ff94d35e@gmail.com> Message-ID: Richmond wrote: > language: something that Livecode has inherited. Please do not chuck > that out. Nothing to worry about, Richmond. LiveCode Script and LiveCode Builder are different languages for different purposes. As an extensibility subsystem, LC Builder benefits from being more restrictive, hopefully one day compilable to machine language. Its role is as a replacement for things that might otherwise require C, not for things that would be done in LiveCode Script. As the main glue for brining components together and building apps, LiveCode Script will retain its essential flavor. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From me at jerrydaniels.com Mon Aug 22 16:30:10 2016 From: me at jerrydaniels.com (me at jerrydaniels.com) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 15:30:10 -0500 Subject: Strict is in; lax is out In-Reply-To: References: <198991ce-f296-62c7-0dd9-7f88ff94d35e@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5763c111-2b53-4c37-9716-aee1bd815e0c@Spark> With builder the LC platform is becoming almost like a meta OS. Before it was great at the high an mid level. Now we get lower level and extensibility. I felt the same way when CompileIt came along for HyperCard. Like then, I have no interest in foregoing LC scripting. On Aug 22, 2016, 3:21 PM -0500, Richard Gaskin , wrote: > Richmond wrote: > > > language: something that Livecode has inherited. Please do not chuck > > that out. > > Nothing to worry about, Richmond. LiveCode Script and LiveCode Builder > are different languages for different purposes. > > As an extensibility subsystem, LC Builder benefits from being more > restrictive, hopefully one day compilable to machine language. Its role > is as a replacement for things that might otherwise require C, not for > things that would be done in LiveCode Script. > > As the main glue for brining components together and building apps, > LiveCode Script will retain its essential flavor. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Mon Aug 22 16:35:41 2016 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 16:35:41 -0400 Subject: Strict is in; lax is out In-Reply-To: <5763c111-2b53-4c37-9716-aee1bd815e0c@Spark> References: <198991ce-f296-62c7-0dd9-7f88ff94d35e@gmail.com> <5763c111-2b53-4c37-9716-aee1bd815e0c@Spark> Message-ID: I was going to mention CompileIt! and Double-XX!, as well (you forgot the exclamation points). I wasn't overjoyed with the restrictions, but I was at not having to use Think C to make externals, any more. On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 4:30 PM, wrote: > With builder the LC platform is becoming almost like a meta OS. Before it > was great at the high an mid level. Now we get lower level and > extensibility. > > I felt the same way when CompileIt came along for HyperCard. Like then, I > have no interest in foregoing LC scripting. > > On Aug 22, 2016, 3:21 PM -0500, Richard Gaskin , > wrote: > > Richmond wrote: > > > > > language: something that Livecode has inherited. Please do not chuck > > > that out. > > > > Nothing to worry about, Richmond. LiveCode Script and LiveCode Builder > > are different languages for different purposes. > > > > As an extensibility subsystem, LC Builder benefits from being more > > restrictive, hopefully one day compilable to machine language. Its role > > is as a replacement for things that might otherwise require C, not for > > things that would be done in LiveCode Script. > > > > As the main glue for brining components together and building apps, > > LiveCode Script will retain its essential flavor. > > > > -- > > Richard Gaskin > > Fourth World Systems > > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From me at jerrydaniels.com Mon Aug 22 16:39:42 2016 From: me at jerrydaniels.com (me at jerrydaniels.com) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 15:39:42 -0500 Subject: Strict is in; lax is out In-Reply-To: References: <198991ce-f296-62c7-0dd9-7f88ff94d35e@gmail.com> <5763c111-2b53-4c37-9716-aee1bd815e0c@Spark> Message-ID: Exactly, Mike. I remembered the exclamation mark. But I was exercising my laxness. On Aug 22, 2016, 3:36 PM -0500, Mike Kerner , wrote: > I was going to mention CompileIt! and Double-XX!, as well (you forgot the > exclamation points). I wasn't overjoyed with the restrictions, but I was > at not having to use Think C to make externals, any more. > > On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 4:30 PM, wrote: > > > With builder the LC platform is becoming almost like a meta OS. Before it > > was great at the high an mid level. Now we get lower level and > > extensibility. > > > > I felt the same way when CompileIt came along for HyperCard. Like then, I > > have no interest in foregoing LC scripting. > > > > On Aug 22, 2016, 3:21 PM -0500, Richard Gaskin , > > wrote: > > > Richmond wrote: > > > > > > > language: something that Livecode has inherited. Please do not chuck > > > > that out. > > > > > > Nothing to worry about, Richmond. LiveCode Script and LiveCode Builder > > > are different languages for different purposes. > > > > > > As an extensibility subsystem, LC Builder benefits from being more > > > restrictive, hopefully one day compilable to machine language. Its role > > > is as a replacement for things that might otherwise require C, not for > > > things that would be done in LiveCode Script. > > > > > > As the main glue for brining components together and building apps, > > > LiveCode Script will retain its essential flavor. > > > > > > -- > > > Richard Gaskin > > > Fourth World Systems > > > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From scott at tactilemedia.com Mon Aug 22 17:07:42 2016 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 14:07:42 -0700 Subject: IPv6 & Apple Message-ID: I recently received an app review response from Apple stating my app has connection issues when connecting to a server on an IPv6 network: "We discovered one or more bugs in your app when reviewed on iPad and iPhone running iOS 9.3.4 on Wi-Fi connected to an IPv6 network. Your app shows an error message upon launch and after login. Screenshot of this issue has been attached for your reference. Please run your app on a device while connected to an IPv6 network (all apps must support IPv6) to identify the issue(s), then revise and resubmit your app for review." Does anyone have any experience with this? The backend database guy I'm working with thinks this is a hosting issue (host needs to support IPv6). Will switching to a host that supports the new protocol allow us to troubleshoot/fix this? Thanks & Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design From ali.lloyd at livecode.com Mon Aug 22 17:40:57 2016 From: ali.lloyd at livecode.com (Ali Lloyd) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 21:40:57 +0000 Subject: Performance issues LC8 versus earlier versions. In-Reply-To: <93fefe2d-4c4d-3245-6e6c-1183e0b09904@fourthworld.com> References: <93fefe2d-4c4d-3245-6e6c-1183e0b09904@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: > I would not have thought that caseSensitive should matter, since these > are bytes not characters - or is that being naive of me ? This is correct. > Would caseSensitive make it faster ? No, provided the internal representation remains binary, which will be true provided you are using binfile, the byte chunk and the number of bytes and so on - as it seems you are. Is the speed difference still there without the `add 1 to temp` line? On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 3:47 PM Richard Gaskin wrote: > Alex Tweedly wrote: > > > Would caseSensitive make it faster ? > > In theory yes, since it avoids having to run the internal equivalent of > toLower on each thing being compared. > > However in some recent experiments involving pattern matching on text I > was unable to measure a difference. That shouldn't be taken as > definitive; there are a lot of distracting things going on in the > routine I was testing with. I haven't yet done a good isolated test of > caseSensitive. > > > > Re md5 for repeated use - yes, it probably is worth doing. > > The rsync algo offers an md5 option, but by default it compares files > based only on mod date and size. The thinking is that if both of those > match, the odds of having a changed file are very low. > > Perhaps an optimal algo in your system would reserve md5 for those cases > where size and mod date match, which will eliminate most cases with less > CPU time. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From alex at tweedly.net Mon Aug 22 18:14:49 2016 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 23:14:49 +0100 Subject: Performance issues LC8 versus earlier versions. In-Reply-To: References: <93fefe2d-4c4d-3245-6e6c-1183e0b09904@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On 22/08/2016 22:40, Ali Lloyd wrote: > > Is the speed difference still there without the `add 1 to temp` line? Yes. btw - 7.0.5 gives identical timings to 8.1 (probably what you'd expect, but thought I'd throw it in as useful info). -- Alex. From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Mon Aug 22 19:29:24 2016 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 23:29:24 +0000 Subject: IPv6 & Apple In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1FDD3D59-4EF6-4F82-A034-9CC457D7F185@iotecdigital.com> Not a bug. Apple is now requiring that apps support IPV6 (presumably) because they think the only way to move people to use it is to enforce it. They may be right. Still, I would love to see the *actual* numbers of routable IP addresses in use on the inter webs to get an idea of how serious the "crisis" is. Otherwise I feel like I did when the world tried to pressure the US into going metric. We can never run out of LAN non-routable IP addresses. It's not like every device *has* to have a unique routable address, unless of course you wanted to be able to gain access to every network device, and those who want that worry me very, very much. Bob S > On Aug 22, 2016, at 14:07 , Scott Rossi wrote: > > I recently received an app review response from Apple stating my app has > connection issues when connecting to a server on an IPv6 network: > > "We discovered one or more bugs in your app when reviewed on iPad and > iPhone running iOS 9.3.4 on Wi-Fi connected to an IPv6 network. > > Your app shows an error message upon launch and after login. Screenshot of > this issue has been attached for your reference. Please run your app on a > device while connected to an IPv6 network (all apps must support IPv6) to > identify the issue(s), then revise and resubmit your app for review." > > Does anyone have any experience with this? The backend database guy I'm > working with thinks this is a hosting issue (host needs to support IPv6). > Will switching to a host that supports the new protocol allow us to > troubleshoot/fix this? > > Thanks & Regards, > > Scott Rossi > Creative Director > Tactile Media, UX/UI Design > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From irog at mac.com Mon Aug 22 19:39:35 2016 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 16:39:35 -0700 Subject: Wouldn't it be neat... In-Reply-To: <8f9abd6d-2905-bf86-0ba9-1b48f70aaf22@fourthworld.com> References: <8f9abd6d-2905-bf86-0ba9-1b48f70aaf22@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <64A97A54-89E2-40A7-B82A-DB23287FA8DF@mac.com> How right you are! Thanks! > On Aug 22, 2016, at 7:39 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > Clicking a button should only deselect text when the button's traversalOn property is true. > > If that were not the case it would not be possible to make toolbars that act on text, and such a limitation would be a bug. From irog at mac.com Mon Aug 22 22:22:28 2016 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 19:22:28 -0700 Subject: Wouldn't it be neat... In-Reply-To: <64A97A54-89E2-40A7-B82A-DB23287FA8DF@mac.com> References: <8f9abd6d-2905-bf86-0ba9-1b48f70aaf22@fourthworld.com> <64A97A54-89E2-40A7-B82A-DB23287FA8DF@mac.com> Message-ID: <53D72CF3-CF6A-4FFC-B1A0-816C325DADDE@mac.com> Hi Richard, I take it back. I thought I had it working but alas, not so much. I can?t make it work for a button in a palette stack (a plugin) and selectedText from the Script Editor of the topStack. Here is my button script: on mouseUp set the defaultstack to the topstack put the selectedtext into tText if the first char of tText is not quote then put quote before tText if the last char of tText is not quote then put quote after tText put tText into the selectedtext end mouseUp The traversalOn of this button is indeed unchecked. When I click the button, the selectedText in the Script Editor goes unhilited, and nothing else happens. Funny thing is, I could swear I had it working before my previous post??? Cheers, Roger > On Aug 22, 2016, at 4:39 PM, Roger Guay wrote: > > How right you are! Thanks! > > >> On Aug 22, 2016, at 7:39 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> >> Clicking a button should only deselect text when the button's traversalOn property is true. >> >> If that were not the case it would not be possible to make toolbars that act on text, and such a limitation would be a bug. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bonnmike at gmail.com Mon Aug 22 22:36:28 2016 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 20:36:28 -0600 Subject: Wouldn't it be neat... In-Reply-To: <53D72CF3-CF6A-4FFC-B1A0-816C325DADDE@mac.com> References: <8f9abd6d-2905-bf86-0ba9-1b48f70aaf22@fourthworld.com> <64A97A54-89E2-40A7-B82A-DB23287FA8DF@mac.com> <53D72CF3-CF6A-4FFC-B1A0-816C325DADDE@mac.com> Message-ID: does it work if you put it into the selectedchunk instead of the selectedtext? On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 8:22 PM, Roger Guay wrote: > Hi Richard, > > I take it back. I thought I had it working but alas, not so much. I can?t > make it work for a button in a palette stack (a plugin) and selectedText > from the Script Editor of the topStack. Here is my button script: > > on mouseUp > > set the defaultstack to the topstack > > put the selectedtext into tText > > if the first char of tText is not quote then put quote before tText > > if the last char of tText is not quote then put quote after tText > > put tText into the selectedtext > > end mouseUp > > The traversalOn of this button is indeed unchecked. When I click the > button, the selectedText in the Script Editor goes unhilited, and nothing > else happens. Funny thing is, I could swear I had it working before my > previous post??? > > Cheers, > > Roger > > > > On Aug 22, 2016, at 4:39 PM, Roger Guay wrote: > > > > How right you are! Thanks! > > > > > >> On Aug 22, 2016, at 7:39 AM, Richard Gaskin > wrote: > >> > >> Clicking a button should only deselect text when the button's > traversalOn property is true. > >> > >> If that were not the case it would not be possible to make toolbars > that act on text, and such a limitation would be a bug. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From irog at mac.com Mon Aug 22 23:00:39 2016 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 20:00:39 -0700 Subject: Wouldn't it be neat... In-Reply-To: References: <8f9abd6d-2905-bf86-0ba9-1b48f70aaf22@fourthworld.com> <64A97A54-89E2-40A7-B82A-DB23287FA8DF@mac.com> <53D72CF3-CF6A-4FFC-B1A0-816C325DADDE@mac.com> Message-ID: <6A4CFE65-E88E-45CC-A0A1-B64E5CABA154@mac.com> Nope! > On Aug 22, 2016, at 7:36 PM, Mike Bonner wrote: > > does it work if you put it into the selectedchunk instead of the > selectedtext? > > On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 8:22 PM, Roger Guay wrote: > >> Hi Richard, >> >> I take it back. I thought I had it working but alas, not so much. I can?t >> make it work for a button in a palette stack (a plugin) and selectedText >> from the Script Editor of the topStack. Here is my button script: >> >> on mouseUp >> >> set the defaultstack to the topstack >> >> put the selectedtext into tText >> >> if the first char of tText is not quote then put quote before tText >> >> if the last char of tText is not quote then put quote after tText >> >> put tText into the selectedtext >> >> end mouseUp >> >> The traversalOn of this button is indeed unchecked. When I click the >> button, the selectedText in the Script Editor goes unhilited, and nothing >> else happens. Funny thing is, I could swear I had it working before my >> previous post??? >> >> Cheers, >> >> Roger >> >> >>> On Aug 22, 2016, at 4:39 PM, Roger Guay wrote: >>> >>> How right you are! Thanks! >>> >>> >>>> On Aug 22, 2016, at 7:39 AM, Richard Gaskin >> wrote: >>>> >>>> Clicking a button should only deselect text when the button's >> traversalOn property is true. >>>> >>>> If that were not the case it would not be possible to make toolbars >> that act on text, and such a limitation would be a bug. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From charles at techstrategies.com.au Mon Aug 22 23:22:46 2016 From: charles at techstrategies.com.au (Charles Warwick) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 13:22:46 +1000 Subject: IPv6 & Apple In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50312378-4fdd-c1f6-46cd-b658411e8c2a@techstrategies.com.au> Hi Scott, On 23/08/2016 7:07 am, Scott Rossi wrote: > Does anyone have any experience with this? The backend database guy I'm > working with thinks this is a hosting issue (host needs to support IPv6). > Will switching to a host that supports the new protocol allow us to > troubleshoot/fix this? You do not require a server that supports IPv6 to resolve the issue. Apple are only enforcing that the client app works on a device that is operating on a IPv6 only network, not that the app only connects to IPv6 servers. Your app can still connect to IPv4 networks, as the IPv6 only network provider will have DNS64/NAT64 translation in place for connecting to IPv4 networks. The problem will usually be because you are using hard-coded IPv4 IP addresses rather than relying on DNS to resolve any hostnames, or that you are using some networking component that doesn't support IPv6 in your app. What sort of network calls are you making from your app, are they only HTTP/HTTPS? Regards, Charles > Thanks & Regards, > > Scott Rossi > Creative Director > Tactile Media, UX/UI Design > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Aug 22 23:42:11 2016 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 20:42:11 -0700 Subject: Wouldn't it be neat... In-Reply-To: <6A4CFE65-E88E-45CC-A0A1-B64E5CABA154@mac.com> References: <6A4CFE65-E88E-45CC-A0A1-B64E5CABA154@mac.com> Message-ID: Roger wrote: > I take it back. I thought I had it working but alas, not so much. > I can?t make it work for a button in a palette stack (a plugin) > and selectedText from the Script Editor of the topStack. Here is > my button script: > > on mouseUp > set the defaultstack to the topstack > put the selectedtext into tText > if the first char of tText is not quote then put quote before tText > if the last char of tText is not quote then put quote after tText > put tText into the selectedtext > end mouseUp > > The traversalOn of this button is indeed unchecked. When I click > the button, the selectedText in the Script Editor goes unhilited, > and nothing else happens. Funny thing is, I could swear I had it > working before my previous post??? Maybe you forgot to set the stack back to palette? Try this: -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for Desktop, Mobile, and Web ____________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From scott at tactilemedia.com Tue Aug 23 00:02:38 2016 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 21:02:38 -0700 Subject: IPv6 & Apple In-Reply-To: <50312378-4fdd-c1f6-46cd-b658411e8c2a@techstrategies.com.au> References: <50312378-4fdd-c1f6-46cd-b658411e8c2a@techstrategies.com.au> Message-ID: Hi Charles: The app makes database calls using the following structure. put "198.01.234.56:1234" into tDatabaseAddress put "dbname_" into tDatabaseName put "dbuser" into tDatabaseUser put "dbpassword" into tDatabasePassword put revOpenDatabase("MySQL", tDatabaseAddress, tDatabaseName, tDatabaseUser, tDatabasePassword) into tResult I have ATS disabled in the standalone because we don't currently have an HTTPS server. The error displayed in Apple's screenshot was my simple error message stating it was unable to connect to the database. I need to go back now and figure out if there's some missed issue with the code. But it concerns me if Apple is testing the app in some way that I don't have a means to reproduce. I'm not very knowledgable in server matters so any advice is appreciated. Thanks & Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design On 8/22/16, 8:22 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Charles Warwick" wrote: >Hi Scott, > >On 23/08/2016 7:07 am, Scott Rossi wrote: >> Does anyone have any experience with this? The backend database guy I'm >> working with thinks this is a hosting issue (host needs to support >>IPv6). >> Will switching to a host that supports the new protocol allow us to >> troubleshoot/fix this? > >You do not require a server that supports IPv6 to resolve the issue. > >Apple are only enforcing that the client app works on a device that is >operating on a IPv6 only network, not that the app only connects to IPv6 >servers. Your app can still connect to IPv4 networks, as the IPv6 only >network provider will have DNS64/NAT64 translation in place for >connecting to IPv4 networks. > >The problem will usually be because you are using hard-coded IPv4 IP >addresses rather than relying on DNS to resolve any hostnames, or that >you are using some networking component that doesn't support IPv6 in >your app. What sort of network calls are you making from your app, are >they only HTTP/HTTPS? > >Regards, > >Charles > > >> Thanks & Regards, >> >> Scott Rossi >> Creative Director >> Tactile Media, UX/UI Design From beugelaar at solidit.nl Tue Aug 23 00:21:14 2016 From: beugelaar at solidit.nl (Erik Beugelaar) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 06:21:14 +0200 Subject: Strict is in; lax is out In-Reply-To: References: <198991ce-f296-62c7-0dd9-7f88ff94d35e@gmail.com> <5763c111-2b53-4c37-9716-aee1bd815e0c@Spark> Message-ID: <012501d1fcf5$c9525be0$5bf713a0$@solidit.nl> I have recently decided to learn LCB because I believe the making of LiveCode widgets could give me and others a nice extra income. So for me it started with refreshing my C language but the most ridicule step I made is to start learning Functional Programming (in Haskell) aside because of the raising blockchain technology. Functional Programming will be the big next thing in IT for decades. Shortly, In my opinion you should always have a good knowledge of C (strict typed) because it is the mother of all languages and you should learn Haskell (or any other FP language like F# etc) because I think the long waited Open Language support in LiveCode will definitely contain some of both techniques. Just my two cents... Erik -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of me at jerrydaniels.com Sent: maandag 22 augustus 2016 22:40 To: How to use LiveCode Subject: Re: Strict is in; lax is out Exactly, Mike. I remembered the exclamation mark. But I was exercising my laxness. On Aug 22, 2016, 3:36 PM -0500, Mike Kerner , wrote: > I was going to mention CompileIt! and Double-XX!, as well (you forgot > the exclamation points). I wasn't overjoyed with the restrictions, but > I was at not having to use Think C to make externals, any more. > > On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 4:30 PM, wrote: > > > With builder the LC platform is becoming almost like a meta OS. > > Before it was great at the high an mid level. Now we get lower level > > and extensibility. > > > > I felt the same way when CompileIt came along for HyperCard. Like > > then, I have no interest in foregoing LC scripting. > > > > On Aug 22, 2016, 3:21 PM -0500, Richard Gaskin > > , > > wrote: > > > Richmond wrote: > > > > > > > language: something that Livecode has inherited. Please do not > > > > chuck that out. > > > > > > Nothing to worry about, Richmond. LiveCode Script and LiveCode > > > Builder are different languages for different purposes. > > > > > > As an extensibility subsystem, LC Builder benefits from being more > > > restrictive, hopefully one day compilable to machine language. Its > > > role is as a replacement for things that might otherwise require > > > C, not for things that would be done in LiveCode Script. > > > > > > As the main glue for brining components together and building > > > apps, LiveCode Script will retain its essential flavor. > > > > > > -- > > > Richard Gaskin > > > Fourth World Systems > > > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the > > > Web > > > __________________________________________________________________ > > > __ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second > day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did > a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From charles at techstrategies.com.au Tue Aug 23 00:27:54 2016 From: charles at techstrategies.com.au (Charles Warwick) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 14:27:54 +1000 Subject: IPv6 & Apple In-Reply-To: References: <50312378-4fdd-c1f6-46cd-b658411e8c2a@techstrategies.com.au> Message-ID: Hi Scott, Ok, there are a couple of issues there. Using "198.01.234.54:1234" as tDatabaseAddress indicates you are using a hardcoded IPv4 address which can cause problems. However there is a bigger issue there in that the database library in LC does not support IPv6. This means that for iOS apps that you want to submit to the app store, you cannot directly connect to a remote database server using LC's built-in database library. The best solution I can recommend would be to use a HTTPS API written in either LC, PHP, or something else to sit between your LC app and the database server. This also gives the added benefit of not needing to leave your database server open to connections from anywhere on the Internet. Feel free to contact me off-list if you want some more specific help/suggestions. Cheers, Charles On 23/08/2016 2:02 pm, Scott Rossi wrote: > Hi Charles: > > The app makes database calls using the following structure. > > put "198.01.234.56:1234" into tDatabaseAddress > put "dbname_" into tDatabaseName > put "dbuser" into tDatabaseUser > put "dbpassword" into tDatabasePassword > put revOpenDatabase("MySQL", tDatabaseAddress, tDatabaseName, > tDatabaseUser, tDatabasePassword) into tResult > > > I have ATS disabled in the standalone because we don't currently have an > HTTPS server. The error displayed in Apple's screenshot was my simple > error message stating it was unable to connect to the database. I need to > go back now and figure out if there's some missed issue with the code. > But it concerns me if Apple is testing the app in some way that I don't > have a means to reproduce. I'm not very knowledgable in server matters so > any advice is appreciated. > > > Thanks & Regards, > > Scott Rossi > Creative Director > Tactile Media, UX/UI Design > > > > > On 8/22/16, 8:22 PM, "use-livecode on behalf of Charles Warwick" > charles at techstrategies.com.au> wrote: > >> Hi Scott, >> >> On 23/08/2016 7:07 am, Scott Rossi wrote: >>> Does anyone have any experience with this? The backend database guy I'm >>> working with thinks this is a hosting issue (host needs to support >>> IPv6). >>> Will switching to a host that supports the new protocol allow us to >>> troubleshoot/fix this? >> You do not require a server that supports IPv6 to resolve the issue. >> >> Apple are only enforcing that the client app works on a device that is >> operating on a IPv6 only network, not that the app only connects to IPv6 >> servers. Your app can still connect to IPv4 networks, as the IPv6 only >> network provider will have DNS64/NAT64 translation in place for >> connecting to IPv4 networks. >> >> The problem will usually be because you are using hard-coded IPv4 IP >> addresses rather than relying on DNS to resolve any hostnames, or that >> you are using some networking component that doesn't support IPv6 in >> your app. What sort of network calls are you making from your app, are >> they only HTTP/HTTPS? >> >> Regards, >> >> Charles >> >> >>> Thanks & Regards, >>> >>> Scott Rossi >>> Creative Director >>> Tactile Media, UX/UI Design > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From irog at mac.com Tue Aug 23 00:38:25 2016 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 21:38:25 -0700 Subject: Wouldn't it be neat... In-Reply-To: References: <6A4CFE65-E88E-45CC-A0A1-B64E5CABA154@mac.com> Message-ID: <0334AC2B-0B04-4702-BB29-7B5FE963A80E@mac.com> No, mine is indeed set to palette yet does not work and your?s works just fine. I?ll report back when I figure out why. Thanks for your patience > On Aug 22, 2016, at 8:42 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > Roger wrote: > > > I take it back. I thought I had it working but alas, not so much. > > I can?t make it work for a button in a palette stack (a plugin) > > and selectedText from the Script Editor of the topStack. Here is > > my button script: > > > > on mouseUp > > set the defaultstack to the topstack > > put the selectedtext into tText > > if the first char of tText is not quote then put quote before tText > > if the last char of tText is not quote then put quote after tText > > put tText into the selectedtext > > end mouseUp > > > > The traversalOn of this button is indeed unchecked. When I click > > the button, the selectedText in the Script Editor goes unhilited, > > and nothing else happens. Funny thing is, I could swear I had it > > working before my previous post??? > > Maybe you forgot to set the stack back to palette? > > Try this: > > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for Desktop, Mobile, and Web > ____________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From charles at techstrategies.com.au Tue Aug 23 01:19:59 2016 From: charles at techstrategies.com.au (Charles Warwick) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 15:19:59 +1000 Subject: IPv6 & Apple In-Reply-To: References: <50312378-4fdd-c1f6-46cd-b658411e8c2a@techstrategies.com.au> Message-ID: <06828857-3fdc-bebd-186e-148d1083b7fc@techstrategies.com.au> On 23/08/2016 2:27 pm, Charles Warwick wrote: > Hi Scott, > > Ok, there are a couple of issues there. > > Using "198.01.234.54:1234" as tDatabaseAddress indicates you are using > a hardcoded IPv4 address which can cause problems. > > However there is a bigger issue there in that the database library in > LC does not support IPv6. > > This means that for iOS apps that you want to submit to the app store, > you cannot directly connect to a remote database server using LC's > built-in database library. > I should clarify that further... the database library does not support the use IPv6 addresses in a similar manner to what you are doing with the IPv4 address above. However, looking back through the archives, Fraser mentioned that it should work if you use a hostname instead (e.g. database.mydomain.com). If that is correct (I have not tested it), you should be able to just set up a DNS entry that resolves to the IP address you are using, and change tDatabaseAddress accordingly. Regards, Charles From brahma at hindu.org Tue Aug 23 02:22:32 2016 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 06:22:32 +0000 Subject: Strict is in; lax is out In-Reply-To: References: <198991ce-f296-62c7-0dd9-7f88ff94d35e@gmail.com> <5763c111-2b53-4c37-9716-aee1bd815e0c@Spark> Message-ID: me at jerrydaniels.com> wrote: Exactly, Mike. I remembered the exclamation mark. But I was exercising my laxness. LOL (good one?) We live in laxness land (Hawaii) and my coding is even more lax. (always in need of optimization?) I can't even get myself to turn on explicitVars. But I am sure I will get the itch to build something "strict" one day? if I can wrap my head around where the my use cases for LC start to fail and where LCB looms as the tool of choice (still a gray area in my head) BR From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Tue Aug 23 05:37:20 2016 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 12:37:20 +0300 Subject: Back to the Garden of Eden Message-ID: <2c58667f-bac9-ceba-01d4-073f674b5014@gmail.com> I, finally, got my copy of 'The Complete Hypercard 2.2 Handbook' by Danny Goodman from the attic of my house in Scotland . . . involving, amongst other things, having to stay in a bed-&-breakfast because there are tenants in my house. Feels very good indeed to have my hands on it. Mind you not as good as to be able to settle down to some BASIC 4 with my BBC Master Compact. So, I am, vaguely, working towards a possible book with something to do with Livecode . . . I have started by reading the Goodman book properly (for the first time, rather than dipping in and out). The blurb on the cover has 'A masterpiece of a book', and apart from the fact that when anything is described as a "masterpiece" one knows the reviewer hasn't read it critically, as-of-now it seems tediously complete, but that is mainly because it is probably reasonable to assume that people who want to do the sort of things Goodman's book was aimed at in 1993 know an awful lot of things about using computers that people in 1993, on the whole, did not. Quite a few of the chapters in the book now seem fairly redundant: Home Stack Author Utilities Introduction to External Resources and so on. But there is a lot of stuff that is "Old but Gold", but does need a fair bit of checking with Livecode as it is now. At the risk of appearing slow moving I shall cross-check things against both LC 7.1.4 and LC 8.1.0. I intend to release "chapters" as PDF documents for FREE (but copyrighted to myself) as I get round to them. Whether they will ever be assembled into a complete book has yet to be seen. Obviously this means that I will be even more of a "pain-in-the-bum" than usual floating questions on this Use-List: I hope that you will bear with me, and make helpful remarks. ------------------------------------------------------------------- So: to work: on page 779 Goodman writes about SANE: the Standard Apple Numerics Environment. As Livecode is cross-platform is that relevant at all? All the functions that Goodman describes as SANE functions seem to be present in Livecode. Richmond. From hh at hyperhh.de Tue Aug 23 05:48:18 2016 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 11:48:18 +0200 Subject: Back to the Garden of Eden Message-ID: <4F1102B3-5E15-4D8A-A2A0-F52FCFE8184D@hyperhh.de> > Richmond M. wrote > Back to the Garden of Eden The big problem may be that you already bit into (the) apple. From ilola.antti at gmail.com Tue Aug 23 05:51:57 2016 From: ilola.antti at gmail.com (Antti Ilola) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 12:51:57 +0300 Subject: Back to the Garden of Eden In-Reply-To: <2c58667f-bac9-ceba-01d4-073f674b5014@gmail.com> References: <2c58667f-bac9-ceba-01d4-073f674b5014@gmail.com> Message-ID: I have it in my bookcase since 90's among other computer books. There it is reminding me of those "good old days". 2016-08-23 12:37 GMT+03:00 Richmond : > I, finally, got my copy of 'The Complete Hypercard 2.2 Handbook' by Danny > Goodman from the attic of my house in Scotland . . . involving, amongst > other things, having to stay in a bed-&-breakfast because there are tenants > in my house. > > Feels very good indeed to have my hands on it. > > Mind you not as good as to be able to settle down to some BASIC 4 with my > BBC Master Compact. > > So, I am, vaguely, working towards a possible book with something to do > with Livecode . . . > > I have started by reading the Goodman book properly (for the first time, > rather than dipping in and out). > > The blurb on the cover has 'A masterpiece of a book', and apart from the > fact that when anything is described as a "masterpiece" one knows the > reviewer hasn't read it critically, as-of-now it seems tediously complete, > but that is mainly because it is probably reasonable to assume that people > who want to do the sort of things Goodman's book was aimed at in 1993 know > an awful lot of things about using computers that people in 1993, on the > whole, did not. > > Quite a few of the chapters in the book now seem fairly redundant: > > Home Stack Author Utilities > > Introduction to External Resources > > and so on. > > But there is a lot of stuff that is "Old but Gold", but does need a fair > bit of checking with Livecode as it is now. > > At the risk of appearing slow moving I shall cross-check things against > both LC 7.1.4 and > > LC 8.1.0. > > I intend to release "chapters" as PDF documents for FREE (but copyrighted > to myself) as I get round to them. Whether they will ever be assembled into > a complete book has yet to be seen. > > Obviously this means that I will be even more of a "pain-in-the-bum" than > usual floating questions on this Use-List: I hope that you will bear with > me, and make helpful remarks. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > So: to work: > > on page 779 Goodman writes about SANE: the Standard Apple Numerics > Environment. > > As Livecode is cross-platform is that relevant at all? > > All the functions that Goodman describes as SANE functions seem to be > present in Livecode. > > Richmond. > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Tue Aug 23 05:56:07 2016 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 12:56:07 +0300 Subject: Back to the Garden of Eden In-Reply-To: <4F1102B3-5E15-4D8A-A2A0-F52FCFE8184D@hyperhh.de> References: <4F1102B3-5E15-4D8A-A2A0-F52FCFE8184D@hyperhh.de> Message-ID: <8e822af7-1bb0-6c00-aebc-8b17218ac20a@gmail.com> Guess that makes me the snake. R. On 23.08.2016 12:48, hh wrote: >> Richmond M. wrote >> Back to the Garden of Eden > The big problem may be that you already bit into (the) apple. > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dvglasgow at gmail.com Tue Aug 23 06:06:39 2016 From: dvglasgow at gmail.com (David V Glasgow) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 11:06:39 +0100 Subject: Cross platform Emoji in a field within a group In-Reply-To: References: <73E7AD72-8F11-44C2-92B8-ECD6253C7CF0@major-k.de> <573C8E2D.40107@gmail.com> <3569BF79-71AD-4B0A-BA85-3D41BEC7C1C0@major-k.de> <573CA18E.2010203@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hello folks, I am fiddling with an app which involves fairly complex grouped objects each of which I want to be ?taggable' using a subset of emoji. Probably a little line of them in a bar across the top of each group I am trying to decide whether to use a collection of png on an emoji card, or whether to go with unicode in a field generating the emoji. The former would be simpler, but I would have to handle the issue of platform compliance . The latter would delegate platform compliance to LC and I would be left with Unicode wrangling and and ?font? size. Or is platform compliance a non issue? Are people so used to emoji in their variants, I can just create a set that I like and use them across platforms? Cheers, David Glasgow From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Tue Aug 23 06:07:04 2016 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 13:07:04 +0300 Subject: Back to the Garden of Eden In-Reply-To: <4F1102B3-5E15-4D8A-A2A0-F52FCFE8184D@hyperhh.de> References: <4F1102B3-5E15-4D8A-A2A0-F52FCFE8184D@hyperhh.de> Message-ID: The problem, and it is a very real problem, is how to escape the trap that very many authors of programming manuals fall into: forgetting that their target audience probably does not know a lot of what they know, but, at the same time not trotting out a lot of stuff that sounds condescending to the reader. Richmond. On 23.08.2016 12:48, hh wrote: >> Richmond M. wrote >> Back to the Garden of Eden > The big problem may be that you already bit into (the) apple. > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Tue Aug 23 06:08:42 2016 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 13:08:42 +0300 Subject: Cross platform Emoji in a field within a group In-Reply-To: References: <73E7AD72-8F11-44C2-92B8-ECD6253C7CF0@major-k.de> <573C8E2D.40107@gmail.com> <3569BF79-71AD-4B0A-BA85-3D41BEC7C1C0@major-k.de> <573CA18E.2010203@gmail.com> Message-ID: <04aa2884-60f0-c660-8197-732581c22cd6@gmail.com> How about using a ttf font? Check out the Unicode specs on this: http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U1F600.pdf Richmond. On 23.08.2016 13:06, David V Glasgow wrote: > Hello folks, > > I am fiddling with an app which involves fairly complex grouped objects each of which I want to be ?taggable' using a subset of emoji. Probably a little line of them in a bar across the top of each group > > I am trying to decide whether to use a collection of png on an emoji card, or whether to go with unicode in a field generating the emoji. > > The former would be simpler, but I would have to handle the issue of platform compliance . > > The latter would delegate platform compliance to LC and I would be left with Unicode wrangling and and ?font? size. > > Or is platform compliance a non issue? Are people so used to emoji in their variants, I can just create a set that I like and use them across platforms? > > Cheers, > > David Glasgow > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Tue Aug 23 06:12:07 2016 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 13:12:07 +0300 Subject: [TOT] Totally Off . . . Message-ID: <4ac71ea1-e5aa-a8c4-e71f-4c51b7a93b19@gmail.com> Look what I found: ftp://ftp.apple.asimov.net/pub/apple_II/documentation/macintosh/ Richmond. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Tue Aug 23 06:25:34 2016 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 13:25:34 +0300 Subject: Targetting teachers Message-ID: <5aec8559-5705-0c97-f166-0533a8ebac98@gmail.com> Looking for something else I stumbled on this: https://archive.org/details/ERIC_ED432257 "Computer Assisted Instruction (CAI) is, quite simply, an instance in which instructional content activities are delivered via a computer. Many commercially-available software programs, although excellent programs, may not be acceptable for each individual teacher's classroom. One way to insure that software is not only acceptable but also targets a teacher's class in a specific way, is for instructors to design their own software. The HyperCard authoring system is a computer program that enables teachers, even those with minimal programming ability, to easily design their own hypermedia software programs for use in individualized situations. Teachers now have an easy method to teach, drill, remediate, or even test individual classes or students by designing software that targets these classes or individuals. This paper discusses setting up to design or create a software program; designing the software; adding buttons, fields and graphics to the stack/program; and scripting in HyperCard. (Author/AEF)" Now all that needs to be done is substitute 'Livecode' for 'Hypercard', so I would really like to know: 1. Why that is not being pushed in a major way (articles in teaching publications?). 2. There seems to be almost zero support from educational establishments for teachers to take the time to get up to speed with this and develop in-house stuff for subject delivery and reinforcement. Mind you, I have never come across the word "remediate" in my life. Richmond. From iphonelagi at gmail.com Tue Aug 23 06:34:32 2016 From: iphonelagi at gmail.com (Lagi Pittas) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 11:34:32 +0100 Subject: [TOT] Totally Off . . . In-Reply-To: <4ac71ea1-e5aa-a8c4-e71f-4c51b7a93b19@gmail.com> References: <4ac71ea1-e5aa-a8c4-e71f-4c51b7a93b19@gmail.com> Message-ID: HI Richmond, Although I have my dead trees I always try to find a pdf version of any paper version I have - as its easier than carrying all those books - but there is something about flicking through a REAL book. So here is one that's been around for ages on archive.org https://ia801004.us.archive.org/22/items/The_Complete_HyperCard_Handbook/The_Complete_HyperCard_Handbook_text.pdf and here are a few more https://archive.org/search.php?query=subject%3A%22Macintosh+%28Computer%29%22 Lagi On 23 August 2016 at 11:12, Richmond wrote: > Look what I found: > > ftp://ftp.apple.asimov.net/pub/apple_II/documentation/macintosh/ > > Richmond. > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From dvglasgow at gmail.com Tue Aug 23 06:40:05 2016 From: dvglasgow at gmail.com (David V Glasgow) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 11:40:05 +0100 Subject: Cross platform Emoji in a field within a group In-Reply-To: <04aa2884-60f0-c660-8197-732581c22cd6@gmail.com> References: <73E7AD72-8F11-44C2-92B8-ECD6253C7CF0@major-k.de> <573C8E2D.40107@gmail.com> <3569BF79-71AD-4B0A-BA85-3D41BEC7C1C0@major-k.de> <573CA18E.2010203@gmail.com> <04aa2884-60f0-c660-8197-732581c22cd6@gmail.com> Message-ID: <9B20FD17-5D67-4891-A5DD-6FDD4EBECC6F@gmail.com> So emoticons are rendered as a font character, and emoji are unicode references that are rendered by the OS? I didn?t know that. No pooh, nails, or ghost, but the simplicity of using a font has advantages. Thanks Richmond. Incidentally, I stumbled across Danny Goodman?s book yesterday, and had a little smiling weep when I saw where my then toddler son scribbled in it with my highlighter pen when I had nipped to the loo. He is now a video editor who no longer scribbles in my books. I don?t miss the little scribbles, I do miss the little scribbler. Cheers, David G > On 23 Aug 2016, at 11:08 am, Richmond wrote: > > How about using a ttf font? > > Check out the Unicode specs on this: > > http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U1F600.pdf > > Richmond. > > > On 23.08.2016 13:06, David V Glasgow wrote: >> Hello folks, >> >> I am fiddling with an app which involves fairly complex grouped objects each of which I want to be ?taggable' using a subset of emoji. Probably a little line of them in a bar across the top of each group >> >> I am trying to decide whether to use a collection of png on an emoji card, or whether to go with unicode in a field generating the emoji. >> >> The former would be simpler, but I would have to handle the issue of platform compliance . >> >> The latter would delegate platform compliance to LC and I would be left with Unicode wrangling and and ?font? size. >> >> Or is platform compliance a non issue? Are people so used to emoji in their variants, I can just create a set that I like and use them across platforms? >> >> Cheers, >> >> David Glasgow >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Tue Aug 23 06:49:09 2016 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 13:49:09 +0300 Subject: [TOT] Totally Off . . . In-Reply-To: References: <4ac71ea1-e5aa-a8c4-e71f-4c51b7a93b19@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thank you very much for those. I have the former one: although the physical book I have is the 4th edition and is entitled The Complete Hypercard 2.2 Handbook so should be the last version that Goodman wrote, and therefore as up to date to the point when Hypercard stopped being upgraded as possible. The second link connects to stuff that is specifically linked to Macintosh computers, and at the moment I am working on Hypercard only, not through a wish to understand outdated and outmoded Mac computers (I have about 12 of them stored in 3 different places in 3 different countries), but as a start to writing some sort of a book about Livecode. My real book (The Complete . . . ) has labelled bookmarks going back to when I was gifted that book in 1999 at the UAE University in Al Ain, UAE, when they, overnight, trashed all their Mac computers and replaced them with IBM compats running Windows Me, and I had to get to grips with Toolbook, and remake lots and lots of HC stack as TB programs. These bookmarks are useful as they stop me having to spend donkey's ages trawling again. This would not really be possible with a pdf document. Richmond. On 23.08.2016 13:34, Lagi Pittas wrote: > HI Richmond, > > Although I have my dead trees I always try to find a pdf version of any > paper version I have - as its easier than carrying all those books - but > there is something about flicking through a REAL book. > > So here is one that's been around for ages on archive.org > > https://ia801004.us.archive.org/22/items/The_Complete_HyperCard_Handbook/The_Complete_HyperCard_Handbook_text.pdf > > and here are a few more > > https://archive.org/search.php?query=subject%3A%22Macintosh+%28Computer%29%22 > > Lagi > > > On 23 August 2016 at 11:12, Richmond wrote: > >> Look what I found: >> >> ftp://ftp.apple.asimov.net/pub/apple_II/documentation/macintosh/ >> >> Richmond. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Tue Aug 23 06:52:49 2016 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 13:52:49 +0300 Subject: Cross platform Emoji in a field within a group In-Reply-To: <9B20FD17-5D67-4891-A5DD-6FDD4EBECC6F@gmail.com> References: <73E7AD72-8F11-44C2-92B8-ECD6253C7CF0@major-k.de> <573C8E2D.40107@gmail.com> <3569BF79-71AD-4B0A-BA85-3D41BEC7C1C0@major-k.de> <573CA18E.2010203@gmail.com> <04aa2884-60f0-c660-8197-732581c22cd6@gmail.com> <9B20FD17-5D67-4891-A5DD-6FDD4EBECC6F@gmail.com> Message-ID: <63e01332-53c6-4b14-652a-24e6e2663a18@gmail.com> If by "pooh" you mean excrement, there is an excrement icon in the Unicode specs but not on that code page. Believe me working with young children learning Livecode the excrement icon features fairly large . . . "Pile of Poo" http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/1F4A9/index.htm "Nails" http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/1f485/index.htm "Ghost" http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/1f47b/index.htm Richmond. On 23.08.2016 13:40, David V Glasgow wrote: > So emoticons are rendered as a font character, and emoji are unicode references that are rendered by the OS? > > I didn?t know that. No pooh, nails, or ghost, but the simplicity of using a font has advantages. > > Thanks Richmond. > > Incidentally, I stumbled across Danny Goodman?s book yesterday, and had a little smiling weep when I saw where my then toddler son scribbled in it with my highlighter pen when I had nipped to the loo. He is now a video editor who no longer scribbles in my books. I don?t miss the little scribbles, I do miss the little scribbler. > > Cheers, > > David G > > > > > > >> On 23 Aug 2016, at 11:08 am, Richmond wrote: >> >> How about using a ttf font? >> >> Check out the Unicode specs on this: >> >> http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U1F600.pdf >> >> Richmond. >> >> >> On 23.08.2016 13:06, David V Glasgow wrote: >>> Hello folks, >>> >>> I am fiddling with an app which involves fairly complex grouped objects each of which I want to be ?taggable' using a subset of emoji. Probably a little line of them in a bar across the top of each group >>> >>> I am trying to decide whether to use a collection of png on an emoji card, or whether to go with unicode in a field generating the emoji. >>> >>> The former would be simpler, but I would have to handle the issue of platform compliance . >>> >>> The latter would delegate platform compliance to LC and I would be left with Unicode wrangling and and ?font? size. >>> >>> Or is platform compliance a non issue? Are people so used to emoji in their variants, I can just create a set that I like and use them across platforms? >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> David Glasgow >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From irog at mac.com Tue Aug 23 08:22:19 2016 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 05:22:19 -0700 Subject: Wouldn't it be neat... In-Reply-To: <0334AC2B-0B04-4702-BB29-7B5FE963A80E@mac.com> References: <6A4CFE65-E88E-45CC-A0A1-B64E5CABA154@mac.com> <0334AC2B-0B04-4702-BB29-7B5FE963A80E@mac.com> Message-ID: <6C720DAC-6D96-4CCF-9369-C6396C203669@mac.com> What I discovered is that a field (used for another feature) in my rTools general catchall plugin butts in and prevents this code from seeing the selectedText of the topStack. Indeed, if a paste a field in your TextToolBar stack (which I love, BTW), your stack fails as well. And the solution . . . wait for it . . . use the ol Richard Gaskin maneuver and set the TraversalOn of the field to false. Thanks again, Richard! Cheers, Roger > On Aug 22, 2016, at 9:38 PM, Roger Guay wrote: > > No, mine is indeed set to palette yet does not work and your?s works just fine. I?ll report back when I figure out why. > > Thanks for your patience > >> On Aug 22, 2016, at 8:42 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> >> Roger wrote: >> >>> I take it back. I thought I had it working but alas, not so much. >>> I can?t make it work for a button in a palette stack (a plugin) >>> and selectedText from the Script Editor of the topStack. Here is >>> my button script: >>> >>> on mouseUp >>> set the defaultstack to the topstack >>> put the selectedtext into tText >>> if the first char of tText is not quote then put quote before tText >>> if the last char of tText is not quote then put quote after tText >>> put tText into the selectedtext >>> end mouseUp >>> >>> The traversalOn of this button is indeed unchecked. When I click >>> the button, the selectedText in the Script Editor goes unhilited, >>> and nothing else happens. Funny thing is, I could swear I had it >>> working before my previous post??? >> From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Tue Aug 23 09:01:53 2016 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 09:01:53 -0400 Subject: Strict is in; lax is out In-Reply-To: References: <198991ce-f296-62c7-0dd9-7f88ff94d35e@gmail.com> <5763c111-2b53-4c37-9716-aee1bd815e0c@Spark> Message-ID: Golf clap for Jerry. On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 2:22 AM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami < brahma at hindu.org> wrote: > me at jerrydaniels.com> wrote: > > Exactly, Mike. I remembered the exclamation mark. But I was exercising > my laxness. > > LOL (good one?) > > We live in laxness land (Hawaii) and my coding is even more lax. (always > in need of optimization?) I can't even get myself to turn on explicitVars. > > But I am sure I will get the itch to build something "strict" one day? if > I can wrap my head around where the my use cases for LC start to fail and > where LCB looms as the tool of choice (still a gray area in my head) > > BR > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From ambassador at fourthworld.com Tue Aug 23 09:55:52 2016 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 06:55:52 -0700 Subject: Wouldn't it be neat... In-Reply-To: <6C720DAC-6D96-4CCF-9369-C6396C203669@mac.com> References: <6C720DAC-6D96-4CCF-9369-C6396C203669@mac.com> Message-ID: <5b7a92b7-de33-072c-2aa3-35ef581a3dca@fourthworld.com> Roger Guay wrote: > What I discovered is that a field (used for another feature) in my > rTools general catchall plugin butts in and prevents this code from > seeing the selectedText of the topStack. Indeed, if a paste a field > in your TextToolBar stack (which I love, BTW), your stack fails as > well. And the solution . . . wait for it . . . use the ol Richard > Gaskin maneuver and set the TraversalOn of the field to false. > > Thanks again, Richard! Glad that worked out. I've made many authoring environments over the years, and have come to rely on being able to turn off traversalOn to allow tool palettes to work on text selections. If that fell victim of a regression I'd need to know about it ASAP; very glad to hear it didn't. If it helps, as much as I like the idea of having a property name associated with me like a sort of Poirot mystery, the role of traversalOn there is understandable once we take a moment to examine what it is and how it works: The traversalOn property (another woefully-named holdover from another time - why not simply "traversal", or better yet "focusable"?) allows you to traverse controls via the keyboard. When I was doing Mac-only work the value of this was lost on me, as Mac in general is very mouse-dependent. But as I've spent more time using Windows and Linux and watching other such users in action I've come to appreciate that many people rely on being able to choose whether to use the mouse or stay on the keyboard when doing anything in a window.* When buttons have traversalOn set to true, we can tab to them just as we'd tab between text fields, using the Enter key to trigger them. Powerful stuff, esp. with forms as your hands never need to leave the home row to reach for the mouse. But focus is, quite rightly, limited to one control at a time. This allows us to anticipate which control our keyboard actions will affect. So when a button becomes focused, any focus on other controls is gone. That includes any selection in field text. Think of focus on a button being similar to openField in a field. And just like a field, whether you tab into it or click into it, either way the gesture will move focus to that object. While I do believe it can be very useful to support traversal as widely as practical, fortunately palette toolbars are a case where users don't expect to be able to tab between buttons. So there we can safely turn off traversalOn, and with that text selections remain preserved even when the button is clicked. Side note: This reminds me of a request for something we see in other programs, perhaps even supported in modern OS APIs, but not (yet) built into LiveCode: Indication of selected text not currently in focus http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=3327 While toolbar buttons are easily doable, there are times when we may want to have focus on one field while maintaining a visual representation of selected state in another, with a means of addressing that secondary selection. For example, consider an HTML editor in which you select a run of text and then enter a URL in a toolbar field as the URL to be inserted as a link in that selection. We can work around this by setting (and later clearing) the backgroundColor of the selection, but it's a bit non-obvious to work out and might benefit from having some means of optionally preserving selection when focus is moved to another field. The trick there is the syntax. We definitely don't want "the selection" or "selectedChunk" to refer to the previous selection, and something like "secondarySelection" and "secondarySelectedChunk" sounds insane. If any of you have suggestions for ways to implement support for preserving secondary selection feel free to add them to that enhancement request. * As useful as it is to deliver fully traversable UIs for our Windows custoemrs, unfortunately the current implementation of option controls does not allow us to support that at this time - see: http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=5505 http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2650 And for completeness, related: http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13068 -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From prothero at earthednet.org Tue Aug 23 10:47:30 2016 From: prothero at earthednet.org (Earthednet-wp) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 07:47:30 -0700 Subject: IPv6 & Apple In-Reply-To: <06828857-3fdc-bebd-186e-148d1083b7fc@techstrategies.com.au> References: <50312378-4fdd-c1f6-46cd-b658411e8c2a@techstrategies.com.au> <06828857-3fdc-bebd-186e-148d1083b7fc@techstrategies.com.au> Message-ID: <39574E51-068B-4DB6-B162-A235905BC626@earthednet.org> I put up a simple stack that might help you get started with php access to a MySQL db, perhaps helpful. http://es.earthednet.org/SoftwareForEducation Best, Bill William Prothero http://es.earthednet.org > On Aug 22, 2016, at 10:19 PM, Charles Warwick wrote: > >> On 23/08/2016 2:27 pm, Charles Warwick wrote: >> Hi Scott, >> >> Ok, there are a couple of issues there. >> >> Using "198.01.234.54:1234" as tDatabaseAddress indicates you are using a hardcoded IPv4 address which can cause problems. >> >> However there is a bigger issue there in that the database library in LC does not support IPv6. >> >> This means that for iOS apps that you want to submit to the app store, you cannot directly connect to a remote database server using LC's built-in database library. > I should clarify that further... the database library does not support the use IPv6 addresses in a similar manner to what you are doing with the IPv4 address above. > > However, looking back through the archives, Fraser mentioned that it should work if you use a hostname instead (e.g. database.mydomain.com). > > If that is correct (I have not tested it), you should be able to just set up a DNS entry that resolves to the IP address you are using, and change tDatabaseAddress accordingly. > > Regards, > > Charles > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Aug 23 10:49:16 2016 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 14:49:16 +0000 Subject: Wouldn't it be neat... In-Reply-To: <64A97A54-89E2-40A7-B82A-DB23287FA8DF@mac.com> References: <8f9abd6d-2905-bf86-0ba9-1b48f70aaf22@fourthworld.com> <64A97A54-89E2-40A7-B82A-DB23287FA8DF@mac.com> Message-ID: <6BB7F5AB-8D33-4D64-A89B-CCAE6C77E67B@iotecdigital.com> This is not true for me. I have a field and a popup menu, largely because I could not get popup menus to work the way they did in LC6 (I never used 7). When I select text in the field, then popup the menu, it deselects the text in the field. More specifically, it sets the insertion point after the selected text. With traversal on in the popup menu, the field actually seems to lose focus, because the insertion point is no longer in the field, and it loses the focus border, BUT... the focusOut message does *NOT* get sent to the field! Note that this is not a problem to me, it's just that when testing this in the hopes I could leverage it, I discovered that it did not work as described above. This is 8.0.1 on OS X 10.11. Bob S On Aug 22, 2016, at 16:39 , Roger Guay > wrote: Clicking a button should only deselect text when the button's traversalOn property is true. From prothero at earthednet.org Tue Aug 23 10:55:32 2016 From: prothero at earthednet.org (Earthednet-wp) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 07:55:32 -0700 Subject: Back to the Garden of Eden In-Reply-To: References: <4F1102B3-5E15-4D8A-A2A0-F52FCFE8184D@hyperhh.de> Message-ID: <672195D5-71D3-4F01-B196-3CBB145C5A3E@earthednet.org> Richmond, Very true. It's hard for those experienced enough to write a book, to know which details might confuse a newbie. The ones I like use a bunch of sort, real world, simple examples, to demonstrate how to create the code. Now is a great time to write a new one, now that v8 is nearing completion. Your background in teaching livecode to kids most likely makes you an ideal person to write such a book. I'll buy it. Best, Bill William Prothero http://es.earthednet.org > On Aug 23, 2016, at 3:07 AM, Richmond wrote: > > The problem, and it is a very real problem, is how to escape the trap > > that very many authors of programming manuals fall into: forgetting that their > > target audience probably does not know a lot of what they know, but, at the same > > time not trotting out a lot of stuff that sounds condescending to the reader. > > Richmond. > > > On 23.08.2016 12:48, hh wrote: >>> Richmond M. wrote >>> Back to the Garden of Eden >> The big problem may be that you already bit into (the) apple. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Aug 23 10:57:25 2016 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 14:57:25 +0000 Subject: Strict is in; lax is out In-Reply-To: <012501d1fcf5$c9525be0$5bf713a0$@solidit.nl> References: <198991ce-f296-62c7-0dd9-7f88ff94d35e@gmail.com> <5763c111-2b53-4c37-9716-aee1bd815e0c@Spark> <012501d1fcf5$c9525be0$5bf713a0$@solidit.nl> Message-ID: Err... Whaaaa??? Bob S On Aug 22, 2016, at 21:21 , Erik Beugelaar > wrote: Shortly, In my opinion you should always have a good knowledge of C (strict typed) because it is the mother of all languages From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Tue Aug 23 11:36:02 2016 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 11:36:02 -0400 Subject: Atom Issues Message-ID: Does anyone have any issues using Atom that they want to share? I have one that is biting me frequently: If Atom is trying to suggest a token, and I hit CR, I don't get a CR. If I'm not watching, I can wind up with several lines all appended together. Instead of having to do cmd-CR to get a CR, I'd kind of like CR do to what it normally does in every other app I use. -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From colinholgate at gmail.com Tue Aug 23 11:39:55 2016 From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 08:39:55 -0700 Subject: Atom Issues In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: That sounds like the nature of auto complete. You could work around the issue by using Tab to do the completing. > On Aug 23, 2016, at 8:36 AM, Mike Kerner wrote: > > Does anyone have any issues using Atom that they want to share? I have one > that is biting me frequently: If Atom is trying to suggest a token, and I > hit CR, I don't get a CR. If I'm not watching, I can wind up with several > lines all appended together. Instead of having to do cmd-CR to get a CR, > I'd kind of like CR do to what it normally does in every other app I use. > From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Tue Aug 23 11:41:40 2016 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 18:41:40 +0300 Subject: Strict is in; lax is out In-Reply-To: References: <198991ce-f296-62c7-0dd9-7f88ff94d35e@gmail.com> <5763c111-2b53-4c37-9716-aee1bd815e0c@Spark> <012501d1fcf5$c9525be0$5bf713a0$@solidit.nl> Message-ID: <69172d80-5bfd-dbf1-009f-16ef782b6ee8@gmail.com> C "is the mother of all languages": I assume you are being extremely coarse, because C is not the "Mummy" of all languages. Richmond. On 23.08.2016 17:57, Bob Sneidar wrote: > Err... Whaaaa??? > > Bob S > > > On Aug 22, 2016, at 21:21 , Erik Beugelaar > wrote: > > Shortly, In my opinion you should always have a good knowledge of C (strict > typed) because it is the mother of all languages > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Tue Aug 23 11:42:05 2016 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 11:42:05 -0400 Subject: Atom Issues In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm not hitting Enter because I want to accept the suggestion. I'm hitting Enter because I want a CR. So Enter is more like "ignore the suggestion and give me a CR" On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 11:39 AM, Colin Holgate wrote: > That sounds like the nature of auto complete. You could work around the > issue by using Tab to do the completing. > > > > On Aug 23, 2016, at 8:36 AM, Mike Kerner > wrote: > > > > Does anyone have any issues using Atom that they want to share? I have > one > > that is biting me frequently: If Atom is trying to suggest a token, and > I > > hit CR, I don't get a CR. If I'm not watching, I can wind up with > several > > lines all appended together. Instead of having to do cmd-CR to get a CR, > > I'd kind of like CR do to what it normally does in every other app I use. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Tue Aug 23 11:42:45 2016 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 11:42:45 -0400 Subject: Atom Issues In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Here's another one: Once atom memorizes a token (say, for example one that's a typo, perhaps with capitalization that's wrong, because capitalization matters in LCB), how do you get rid of the wrong token? On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 11:42 AM, Mike Kerner wrote: > I'm not hitting Enter because I want to accept the suggestion. I'm > hitting Enter because I want a CR. So Enter is more like "ignore the > suggestion and give me a CR" > > On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 11:39 AM, Colin Holgate > wrote: > >> That sounds like the nature of auto complete. You could work around the >> issue by using Tab to do the completing. >> >> >> > On Aug 23, 2016, at 8:36 AM, Mike Kerner >> wrote: >> > >> > Does anyone have any issues using Atom that they want to share? I have >> one >> > that is biting me frequently: If Atom is trying to suggest a token, >> and I >> > hit CR, I don't get a CR. If I'm not watching, I can wind up with >> several >> > lines all appended together. Instead of having to do cmd-CR to get a >> CR, >> > I'd kind of like CR do to what it normally does in every other app I >> use. >> > >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Tue Aug 23 11:59:24 2016 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 11:59:24 -0400 Subject: Atom Issues In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I even run into this situation with enter when typing "then" for an "if then". On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 11:42 AM, Mike Kerner wrote: > Here's another one: Once atom memorizes a token (say, for example one > that's a typo, perhaps with capitalization that's wrong, because > capitalization matters in LCB), how do you get rid of the wrong token? > > On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 11:42 AM, Mike Kerner > wrote: > >> I'm not hitting Enter because I want to accept the suggestion. I'm >> hitting Enter because I want a CR. So Enter is more like "ignore the >> suggestion and give me a CR" >> >> On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 11:39 AM, Colin Holgate >> wrote: >> >>> That sounds like the nature of auto complete. You could work around the >>> issue by using Tab to do the completing. >>> >>> >>> > On Aug 23, 2016, at 8:36 AM, Mike Kerner >>> wrote: >>> > >>> > Does anyone have any issues using Atom that they want to share? I >>> have one >>> > that is biting me frequently: If Atom is trying to suggest a token, >>> and I >>> > hit CR, I don't get a CR. If I'm not watching, I can wind up with >>> several >>> > lines all appended together. Instead of having to do cmd-CR to get a >>> CR, >>> > I'd kind of like CR do to what it normally does in every other app I >>> use. >>> > >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >> On the second day, God created the oceans. >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >> and did a little diving. >> And God said, "This is good." >> > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From ambassador at fourthworld.com Tue Aug 23 12:20:30 2016 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 09:20:30 -0700 Subject: Wouldn't it be neat... In-Reply-To: <6BB7F5AB-8D33-4D64-A89B-CCAE6C77E67B@iotecdigital.com> References: <6BB7F5AB-8D33-4D64-A89B-CCAE6C77E67B@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <38d5c40e-b3d7-6d20-3257-b2676b90480b@fourthworld.com> Bob Sneidar wrote: > On Aug 22, 2016, at 16:39 , Roger Guay wrote: >> >> Clicking a button should only deselect text when the button's >> traversalOn property is true. > > This is not true for me. I have a field and a popup menu, largely > because I could not get popup menus to work the way they did in LC6 > (I never used 7). When I select text in the field, then popup the > menu, it deselects the text in the field. More specifically, it sets > the insertion point after the selected text. > > With traversal on in the popup menu, the field actually seems to lose > focus, because the insertion point is no longer in the field, and it > loses the focus border... I use context menu frequently, so I double-checked this to see if there might have been a regression on that. No luck, or only good luck, depending on one's bent - it only works for me. Try this sample: http://fourthworld.net/lc/poptest.livecode One issue may be that in the latest IDE it's no longer possible to set the traversalOn from the Inspector for popup menu buttons: http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18253 As the Inspector gets more fleshed out I find myself going back to my Props plugin, which shows everything (which may be overwhelming for some, but if you need seldom-used properties it can be handy): http://fourthworld.net/revnet/devolution/4W_Props.rev.gz > ...BUT... the focusOut message does *NOT* get sent to the field! Hmmm...bug or feature? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com Tue Aug 23 12:34:06 2016 From: stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com (stephen barncard) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 09:34:06 -0700 Subject: Strict is in; lax is out In-Reply-To: <69172d80-5bfd-dbf1-009f-16ef782b6ee8@gmail.com> References: <198991ce-f296-62c7-0dd9-7f88ff94d35e@gmail.com> <5763c111-2b53-4c37-9716-aee1bd815e0c@Spark> <012501d1fcf5$c9525be0$5bf713a0$@solidit.nl> <69172d80-5bfd-dbf1-009f-16ef782b6ee8@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 8:41 AM, Richmond wrote: > C "is the mother of all languages": I assume you are being extremely > coarse, > > because C is not the "Mummy" of all languages. > the most granular of all computer languages are the hex opcodes that drive your favorite processor of choice... Assembly language programmers eat their young.... I saw that somewhere... Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA - mixstream.org From blueback09 at gmail.com Tue Aug 23 12:47:52 2016 From: blueback09 at gmail.com (Matt Maier) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 19:47:52 +0300 Subject: Atom Issues In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I keep getting a red error popup every time I finish writing a word. It cites the autocomplete-plus package. No idea how to get it to stop covering half the window in red error messages. On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 6:59 PM, Mike Kerner wrote: > I even run into this situation with enter when typing "then" for an "if > then". > > On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 11:42 AM, Mike Kerner > wrote: > > > Here's another one: Once atom memorizes a token (say, for example one > > that's a typo, perhaps with capitalization that's wrong, because > > capitalization matters in LCB), how do you get rid of the wrong token? > > > > On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 11:42 AM, Mike Kerner > > > wrote: > > > >> I'm not hitting Enter because I want to accept the suggestion. I'm > >> hitting Enter because I want a CR. So Enter is more like "ignore the > >> suggestion and give me a CR" > >> > >> On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 11:39 AM, Colin Holgate > > >> wrote: > >> > >>> That sounds like the nature of auto complete. You could work around the > >>> issue by using Tab to do the completing. > >>> > >>> > >>> > On Aug 23, 2016, at 8:36 AM, Mike Kerner > >>> wrote: > >>> > > >>> > Does anyone have any issues using Atom that they want to share? I > >>> have one > >>> > that is biting me frequently: If Atom is trying to suggest a token, > >>> and I > >>> > hit CR, I don't get a CR. If I'm not watching, I can wind up with > >>> several > >>> > lines all appended together. Instead of having to do cmd-CR to get a > >>> CR, > >>> > I'd kind of like CR do to what it normally does in every other app I > >>> use. > >>> > > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> use-livecode mailing list > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >>> subscription preferences: > >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > >> On the second day, God created the oceans. > >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > >> and did a little diving. > >> And God said, "This is good." > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > and did a little diving. > > And God said, "This is good." > > > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From dunbarx at aol.com Tue Aug 23 13:27:58 2016 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx at aol.com) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 13:27:58 -0400 Subject: Strict is in; lax is out In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <156b871c25f-1933-c2@webprd-a12.mail.aol.com> I miss eight toggle switches with eight little lamps (this was before LED's). Craig -----Original Message----- From: stephen barncard To: How to use LiveCode Sent: Tue, Aug 23, 2016 12:34 pm Subject: Re: Strict is in; lax is out On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 8:41 AM, Richmond wrote: > C "is the mother of all languages": I assume you are being extremely > coarse, > > because C is not the "Mummy" of all languages. > the most granular of all computer languages are the hex opcodes that drive your favorite processor of choice... Assembly language programmers eat their young.... I saw that somewhere... Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA - mixstream.org _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Tue Aug 23 13:33:27 2016 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 13:33:27 -0400 Subject: Strict is in; lax is out In-Reply-To: <156b871c25f-1933-c2@webprd-a12.mail.aol.com> References: <156b871c25f-1933-c2@webprd-a12.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: OMG stop. Let's not all brag about how old we are. Holereth my ass. I have not found an assembly language that I didn't like. On some processors, it's like writing in a high-level language. On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 1:27 PM, wrote: > I miss eight toggle switches with eight little lamps (this was before > LED's). > > > Craig > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: stephen barncard > To: How to use LiveCode > Sent: Tue, Aug 23, 2016 12:34 pm > Subject: Re: Strict is in; lax is out > > On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 8:41 AM, Richmond > wrote: > > > C "is the mother of all languages": I assume you are being extremely > > coarse, > > > > because C is not the "Mummy" of all languages. > > > > the most granular of all computer languages are the hex opcodes that drive > your favorite processor of choice... > > Assembly language programmers eat their young.... I saw that somewhere... > > Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA - > mixstream.org > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Tue Aug 23 13:35:24 2016 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 20:35:24 +0300 Subject: Strict is in; lax is out In-Reply-To: References: <198991ce-f296-62c7-0dd9-7f88ff94d35e@gmail.com> <5763c111-2b53-4c37-9716-aee1bd815e0c@Spark> <012501d1fcf5$c9525be0$5bf713a0$@solidit.nl> <69172d80-5bfd-dbf1-009f-16ef782b6ee8@gmail.com> Message-ID: Well, I've forgotten more Zilog than young I have eaten. Do I regret forgetting it? Do I feel a great sense of loss? Not a bit of it: in fact I was "born again" through xTalk languages. Richmond "Dvija Bandhu" Mathewson. On 23.08.2016 19:34, stephen barncard wrote: > On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 8:41 AM, Richmond > wrote: > >> C "is the mother of all languages": I assume you are being extremely >> coarse, >> >> because C is not the "Mummy" of all languages. >> > the most granular of all computer languages are the hex opcodes that drive > your favorite processor of choice... > > Assembly language programmers eat their young.... I saw that somewhere... > > Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA - > mixstream.org > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Tue Aug 23 13:41:07 2016 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 20:41:07 +0300 Subject: Strict is in; lax is out In-Reply-To: References: <156b871c25f-1933-c2@webprd-a12.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: <5b6100c8-e9f2-d1a3-bb2f-71d1339dd5e5@gmail.com> "Holereth my ass." Does that involve 2 spelling mistakes or only one? I'm trying to envisage hitting a donkey with a Hollerith card, which if you think about things is not quite as bad as if there are 2 (from a British perspective) spelling mistakes there. Especially if one understands "Hollerith" to be a verb in the imperative! Whichever way you cut things, that is in no way "High-Level". Now bragging about how old we are, or how long ago we first laid our sweaty paws on an computer language is one thing, but doing things to donkeys or ??? is another completely. Richmond. On 23.08.2016 20:33, Mike Kerner wrote: > OMG stop. Let's not all brag about how old we are. Holereth my ass. > I have not found an assembly language that I didn't like. On some > processors, it's like writing in a high-level language. > > On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 1:27 PM, wrote: > >> I miss eight toggle switches with eight little lamps (this was before >> LED's). >> >> >> Craig >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: stephen barncard >> To: How to use LiveCode >> Sent: Tue, Aug 23, 2016 12:34 pm >> Subject: Re: Strict is in; lax is out >> >> On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 8:41 AM, Richmond >> wrote: >> >>> C "is the mother of all languages": I assume you are being extremely >>> coarse, >>> >>> because C is not the "Mummy" of all languages. >>> >> the most granular of all computer languages are the hex opcodes that drive >> your favorite processor of choice... >> >> Assembly language programmers eat their young.... I saw that somewhere... >> >> Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA - >> mixstream.org >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Tue Aug 23 13:46:42 2016 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 13:46:42 -0400 Subject: Strict is in; lax is out In-Reply-To: <5b6100c8-e9f2-d1a3-bb2f-71d1339dd5e5@gmail.com> References: <156b871c25f-1933-c2@webprd-a12.mail.aol.com> <5b6100c8-e9f2-d1a3-bb2f-71d1339dd5e5@gmail.com> Message-ID: The fact that you remember how to spell the man's name just proves the point. On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 1:41 PM, Richmond wrote: > "Holereth my ass." > > Does that involve 2 spelling mistakes or only one? > > I'm trying to envisage hitting a donkey with a Hollerith card, which if > you think about things is not quite as bad as if there are 2 (from a > British perspective) spelling mistakes there. > > Especially if one understands "Hollerith" to be a verb in the imperative! > > Whichever way you cut things, that is in no way "High-Level". > > Now bragging about how old we are, or how long ago we first laid our > sweaty paws on an computer language is one thing, but doing things to > donkeys or ??? is another completely. > > Richmond. > > > On 23.08.2016 20:33, Mike Kerner wrote: > > OMG stop. Let's not all brag about how old we are. Holereth my ass. >> I have not found an assembly language that I didn't like. On some >> processors, it's like writing in a high-level language. >> >> On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 1:27 PM, wrote: >> >> I miss eight toggle switches with eight little lamps (this was before >>> LED's). >>> >>> >>> Craig >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: stephen barncard >>> To: How to use LiveCode >>> Sent: Tue, Aug 23, 2016 12:34 pm >>> Subject: Re: Strict is in; lax is out >>> >>> On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 8:41 AM, Richmond >>> wrote: >>> >>> C "is the mother of all languages": I assume you are being extremely >>>> coarse, >>>> >>>> because C is not the "Mummy" of all languages. >>>> >>>> the most granular of all computer languages are the hex opcodes that >>> drive >>> your favorite processor of choice... >>> >>> Assembly language programmers eat their young.... I saw that somewhere... >>> >>> Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA - >>> mixstream.org >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From colinholgate at gmail.com Tue Aug 23 13:49:02 2016 From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 10:49:02 -0700 Subject: Strict is in; lax is out In-Reply-To: References: <156b871c25f-1933-c2@webprd-a12.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: <1050023A-CD5A-41F4-BA26-66E7F12C5118@gmail.com> I did once have to program a machine using toggle switches. But that was as part of a computer course in 1982, long after the machine in question was still in use. > On Aug 23, 2016, at 10:33 AM, Mike Kerner wrote: > > OMG stop. Let's not all brag about how old we are. Holereth my ass. > I have not found an assembly language that I didn't like. On some > processors, it's like writing in a high-level language. > > On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 1:27 PM, wrote: > >> I miss eight toggle switches with eight little lamps (this was before >> LED's). >> >> >> Craig >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: stephen barncard >> To: How to use LiveCode >> Sent: Tue, Aug 23, 2016 12:34 pm >> Subject: Re: Strict is in; lax is out >> >> On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 8:41 AM, Richmond >> wrote: >> >>> C "is the mother of all languages": I assume you are being extremely >>> coarse, >>> >>> because C is not the "Mummy" of all languages. >>> >> >> the most granular of all computer languages are the hex opcodes that drive >> your favorite processor of choice... >> >> Assembly language programmers eat their young.... I saw that somewhere... >> >> Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA - >> mixstream.org >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Tue Aug 23 13:53:43 2016 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 13:53:43 -0400 Subject: Strict is in; lax is out In-Reply-To: <1050023A-CD5A-41F4-BA26-66E7F12C5118@gmail.com> References: <156b871c25f-1933-c2@webprd-a12.mail.aol.com> <1050023A-CD5A-41F4-BA26-66E7F12C5118@gmail.com> Message-ID: too young. you lose On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 1:49 PM, Colin Holgate wrote: > I did once have to program a machine using toggle switches. But that was > as part of a computer course in 1982, long after the machine in question > was still in use. > > > > On Aug 23, 2016, at 10:33 AM, Mike Kerner > wrote: > > > > OMG stop. Let's not all brag about how old we are. Holereth my ass. > > I have not found an assembly language that I didn't like. On some > > processors, it's like writing in a high-level language. > > > > On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 1:27 PM, wrote: > > > >> I miss eight toggle switches with eight little lamps (this was before > >> LED's). > >> > >> > >> Craig > >> > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: stephen barncard > >> To: How to use LiveCode > >> Sent: Tue, Aug 23, 2016 12:34 pm > >> Subject: Re: Strict is in; lax is out > >> > >> On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 8:41 AM, Richmond > >> wrote: > >> > >>> C "is the mother of all languages": I assume you are being extremely > >>> coarse, > >>> > >>> because C is not the "Mummy" of all languages. > >>> > >> > >> the most granular of all computer languages are the hex opcodes that > drive > >> your favorite processor of choice... > >> > >> Assembly language programmers eat their young.... I saw that > somewhere... > >> > >> Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA - > >> mixstream.org > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > and did a little diving. > > And God said, "This is good." > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Tue Aug 23 14:02:08 2016 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 14:02:08 -0400 Subject: Strict is in; lax is out In-Reply-To: References: <156b871c25f-1933-c2@webprd-a12.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: <000f01d1fd68$7754d750$65fe85f0$@net> >Mike Kerner wrote: >On some processors, it's like writing in a high-level language. Like Vaxs(before Alpha risc). There are 15 addressing modes(like register auto increment) and instructions like Polynomial Evaluation and CRC. By the way I maintain an old VMS system for a customer that has been up for==>"Uptime 775 02:01:49" with the record being over 1000 days without reboot. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Tue Aug 23 14:04:07 2016 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 21:04:07 +0300 Subject: Strict is in; lax is out In-Reply-To: References: <156b871c25f-1933-c2@webprd-a12.mail.aol.com> <5b6100c8-e9f2-d1a3-bb2f-71d1339dd5e5@gmail.com> Message-ID: <500b94c5-921f-d2f6-c4f3-544a2be93b25@gmail.com> Well that's because my cousin, Stephen Mathewson set up the first computer system at Imperial College in London . . . http://sim.sagepub.com/content/23/6/181.abstract Richmond. On 23.08.2016 20:46, Mike Kerner wrote: > The fact that you remember how to spell the man's name just proves the > point. > > On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 1:41 PM, Richmond > wrote: > >> "Holereth my ass." >> >> Does that involve 2 spelling mistakes or only one? >> >> I'm trying to envisage hitting a donkey with a Hollerith card, which if >> you think about things is not quite as bad as if there are 2 (from a >> British perspective) spelling mistakes there. >> >> Especially if one understands "Hollerith" to be a verb in the imperative! >> >> Whichever way you cut things, that is in no way "High-Level". >> >> Now bragging about how old we are, or how long ago we first laid our >> sweaty paws on an computer language is one thing, but doing things to >> donkeys or ??? is another completely. >> >> Richmond. >> >> >> On 23.08.2016 20:33, Mike Kerner wrote: >> >> OMG stop. Let's not all brag about how old we are. Holereth my ass. >>> I have not found an assembly language that I didn't like. On some >>> processors, it's like writing in a high-level language. >>> >>> On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 1:27 PM, wrote: >>> >>> I miss eight toggle switches with eight little lamps (this was before >>>> LED's). >>>> >>>> >>>> Craig >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: stephen barncard >>>> To: How to use LiveCode >>>> Sent: Tue, Aug 23, 2016 12:34 pm >>>> Subject: Re: Strict is in; lax is out >>>> >>>> On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 8:41 AM, Richmond >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> C "is the mother of all languages": I assume you are being extremely >>>>> coarse, >>>>> >>>>> because C is not the "Mummy" of all languages. >>>>> >>>>> the most granular of all computer languages are the hex opcodes that >>>> drive >>>> your favorite processor of choice... >>>> >>>> Assembly language programmers eat their young.... I saw that somewhere... >>>> >>>> Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA - >>>> mixstream.org >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > From bogdanoff at me.com Tue Aug 23 14:51:56 2016 From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 14:51:56 -0400 Subject: Strict is in; lax is out In-Reply-To: <500b94c5-921f-d2f6-c4f3-544a2be93b25@gmail.com> References: <156b871c25f-1933-c2@webprd-a12.mail.aol.com> <5b6100c8-e9f2-d1a3-bb2f-71d1339dd5e5@gmail.com> <500b94c5-921f-d2f6-c4f3-544a2be93b25@gmail.com> Message-ID: Well, MY first programming was with the Digi-Comp, a 3-bit plastic mechanical computer during the 1960s. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digi-Comp_I It was very strict. Peter Bogdanoff > On Aug 23, 2016, at 2:04 PM, Richmond wrote: > > Well that's because my cousin, Stephen Mathewson set up the first computer system at Imperial College in London . . . > > http://sim.sagepub.com/content/23/6/181.abstract > > Richmond. > > > On 23.08.2016 20:46, Mike Kerner wrote: >> The fact that you remember how to spell the man's name just proves the >> point. >> >> On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 1:41 PM, Richmond >> wrote: >> >>> "Holereth my ass." >>> >>> Does that involve 2 spelling mistakes or only one? >>> >>> I'm trying to envisage hitting a donkey with a Hollerith card, which if >>> you think about things is not quite as bad as if there are 2 (from a >>> British perspective) spelling mistakes there. >>> >>> Especially if one understands "Hollerith" to be a verb in the imperative! >>> >>> Whichever way you cut things, that is in no way "High-Level". >>> >>> Now bragging about how old we are, or how long ago we first laid our >>> sweaty paws on an computer language is one thing, but doing things to >>> donkeys or ??? is another completely. >>> >>> Richmond. >>> >>> >>> On 23.08.2016 20:33, Mike Kerner wrote: >>> >>> OMG stop. Let's not all brag about how old we are. Holereth my ass. >>>> I have not found an assembly language that I didn't like. On some >>>> processors, it's like writing in a high-level language. >>>> >>>> On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 1:27 PM, wrote: >>>> >>>> I miss eight toggle switches with eight little lamps (this was before >>>>> LED's). >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Craig >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: stephen barncard >>>>> To: How to use LiveCode >>>>> Sent: Tue, Aug 23, 2016 12:34 pm >>>>> Subject: Re: Strict is in; lax is out >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 8:41 AM, Richmond >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> C "is the mother of all languages": I assume you are being extremely >>>>>> coarse, >>>>>> >>>>>> because C is not the "Mummy" of all languages. >>>>>> >>>>>> the most granular of all computer languages are the hex opcodes that >>>>> drive >>>>> your favorite processor of choice... >>>>> >>>>> Assembly language programmers eat their young.... I saw that somewhere... >>>>> >>>>> Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA - >>>>> mixstream.org >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Tue Aug 23 14:55:55 2016 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 21:55:55 +0300 Subject: Strict is in; lax is out In-Reply-To: References: <156b871c25f-1933-c2@webprd-a12.mail.aol.com> <5b6100c8-e9f2-d1a3-bb2f-71d1339dd5e5@gmail.com> <500b94c5-921f-d2f6-c4f3-544a2be93b25@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1d49cbd8-2f1c-0813-b701-60e08b607e70@gmail.com> In the 1960s, amongst other things, I learnt to walk, talk, and read and write: not seeing any computery anything until 1975. Richmond. On 23.08.2016 21:51, Peter Bogdanoff wrote: > Well, MY first programming was with the Digi-Comp, a 3-bit plastic mechanical computer during the 1960s. > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digi-Comp_I > > It was very strict. > > Peter Bogdanoff > > >> On Aug 23, 2016, at 2:04 PM, Richmond wrote: >> >> Well that's because my cousin, Stephen Mathewson set up the first computer system at Imperial College in London . . . >> >> http://sim.sagepub.com/content/23/6/181.abstract >> >> Richmond. >> >> >> On 23.08.2016 20:46, Mike Kerner wrote: >>> The fact that you remember how to spell the man's name just proves the >>> point. >>> >>> On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 1:41 PM, Richmond >>> wrote: >>> >>>> "Holereth my ass." >>>> >>>> Does that involve 2 spelling mistakes or only one? >>>> >>>> I'm trying to envisage hitting a donkey with a Hollerith card, which if >>>> you think about things is not quite as bad as if there are 2 (from a >>>> British perspective) spelling mistakes there. >>>> >>>> Especially if one understands "Hollerith" to be a verb in the imperative! >>>> >>>> Whichever way you cut things, that is in no way "High-Level". >>>> >>>> Now bragging about how old we are, or how long ago we first laid our >>>> sweaty paws on an computer language is one thing, but doing things to >>>> donkeys or ??? is another completely. >>>> >>>> Richmond. >>>> >>>> >>>> On 23.08.2016 20:33, Mike Kerner wrote: >>>> >>>> OMG stop. Let's not all brag about how old we are. Holereth my ass. >>>>> I have not found an assembly language that I didn't like. On some >>>>> processors, it's like writing in a high-level language. >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 1:27 PM, wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I miss eight toggle switches with eight little lamps (this was before >>>>>> LED's). >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Craig >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: stephen barncard >>>>>> To: How to use LiveCode >>>>>> Sent: Tue, Aug 23, 2016 12:34 pm >>>>>> Subject: Re: Strict is in; lax is out >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 8:41 AM, Richmond >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> C "is the mother of all languages": I assume you are being extremely >>>>>>> coarse, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> because C is not the "Mummy" of all languages. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> the most granular of all computer languages are the hex opcodes that >>>>>> drive >>>>>> your favorite processor of choice... >>>>>> >>>>>> Assembly language programmers eat their young.... I saw that somewhere... >>>>>> >>>>>> Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA - >>>>>> mixstream.org >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From brahma at hindu.org Tue Aug 23 14:59:57 2016 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 18:59:57 +0000 Subject: Markdown in 8.1dp2 Mac app builds In-Reply-To: <9FCEF767-7977-4F52-9997-F3C3C0C92E94@appisle.net> References: <5D809565-F2DA-4D01-89B9-AF89A9A5FEC0@appisle.net> <081D0E10-7192-41D4-A50F-2BEE9D963E7C@appisle.net> <8E5A78A6-5314-45E1-95F2-B2D3730FE121@jerrydaniels.com> <2DFBCCD8-D416-434A-BA7C-EBBC759DF5DF@appisle.net> <9FCEF767-7977-4F52-9997-F3C3C0C92E94@appisle.net> Message-ID: Jerry wrote: Also, dp2 may be too unstable for me to be productive. FWIW: dp2 had me deep in despair (couldn't get anything done)? been working in dp3 for two weeks. it is a whole different experience? even the project browser now works. From brahma at hindu.org Tue Aug 23 15:00:33 2016 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 19:00:33 +0000 Subject: Very OT - Bad pun In-Reply-To: <1465669282569-4705678.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <677062E1-58F7-48D7-A52E-A37CCF6E7210@jerrydaniels.com> <0E429C81-BBBC-4D3D-8649-7581230F2BDF@jerrydaniels.com> <99980660-7B77-4A4D-906B-ED790D9C2519@appisle.net> <1465669282569-4705678.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <69AA4C74-4E9C-40DD-A10F-5E69C73619AD@hindu.org> uh oh? Now I have to read the list just to read Jerry's "stand up" deliveries. Welcome back Jerry. Your spirit was missed. BR Jerry Daniels-3 wrote and I can't think of anything that rhymes Edinburgh... but if we moved it just a little ways away we could call it the "Fiasco is Glasgow" From jerry at jhjensen.com Tue Aug 23 15:00:48 2016 From: jerry at jhjensen.com (Jerry Jensen) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 12:00:48 -0700 Subject: blockchain In-Reply-To: References: <1e6bf6b0-d6e0-43a0-8881-7c510a48c3a4@Spark> Message-ID: IEEE is getting interested in blockchain technology. Here?s a basic article: http://theinstitute.ieee.org/technology-topics/computing/getting-linked-to-the-blockchain .Jerry J > On Aug 20, 2016, at 2:17 AM, David Bovill wrote: > > Mike that would be great. I'd like to get together a small group to > research together the integration of Livecode with blockchain - starting in > November. The format would be asynchronous work with some live > get-togethers. > > Involvement does not need to be super-geeky. It will be a research group, > so I'll collect links, podcasts and videos and present these within a > Livecode environment - so there is a need for media, writing and research > skills and we will be working together on a publication within Livecode. > This publication will also be online and on the decentralised web. > Super-geeks with a knowledge of Javascript and Livecode are also more than > welcome. > > If anyone else is interested just email me here or off-list, and I'll send > out information when the dates are confirmed. > > On 18 August 2016 at 13:44, Mike Kerner wrote: > >> James, I'm always interested in what other folks are doing, and I'd like to >> hear more about the setup. David, I'd definitely be interested. >> >> On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 6:20 AM, David Bovill wrote: >> >>> Yes - I've been interested in Livecode and blockchain for a couple of >> years >>> now. I've been following Ethereum since the beginning - we tried to make >> a >>> documentary about the project and I went to DevCon 1 in Berlin as the >> team >>> started it's development. >>> >>> There is an interesting online Hackathon in November if any Livecoders >> are >>> interested in taking part / forming a team? >>> >>> On 18 August 2016 at 01:27, Richard Gaskin >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Jerry Daniels wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Aug 17, 2016, 5:12 PM -0500, Richard Gaskin wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> What is the business benefit for this application to go P2P rather >>>>>> than client-server? >>>>> >>>>> Richard, cost savings, security, privacy. Costs are drastically >>>>> reduced without hosting and its (hidden) labor/maintenance. Just >>>>> think about the long record of exploitation of hosted SQL data. >>>>> Not in the models were discussing here. >>>> >>>> I like the idea* of P2P for some applications, but with the explosion >> of >>>> cloud services the client-server model seems to have merit as well. >>>> >>>> On the one hand, there are the risks of managing (hopefully redundant) >>>> server farms. On the other hand there are the risks of having every >>> client >>>> also be a server, but without a team of professionals hardening and >>>> monitoring it. >>>> >>>> All systems are hackable. Ideally prevention, monitoring, and recovery >>>> are budgeted for in the business plan with any architecture. >>>> >>>> I believe there's a role for both client-server and P2P, and federated >>>> models as well. Each has its own benefits and tradeoffs; like >>> programming >>>> languages, there'll always be more because use cases where they can add >>>> value only grow and diversify. >>>> >>>> Back to blockchains, from my reading it's becoming clear that the >>>> distributed trust is a compelling feature, along with the increased >> speed >>>> with which transaction ledgers can be conveyed faithfully. Like the >>> early >>>> days of railroads, networks outside of Bitcoin employ different >>> standards, >>>> each with its own kinks to work out but worth the effort. Over time it >>>> seems likely they'll impact global quality of life as significantly as >>> the >>>> invention of compound interest. >>>> >>>> Lots to learn.... >>>> >>>> >>>>> Richard, Mike...sorry for my butting in here. Feel free to ignore my >>>>> interruption. >>>> >>>> Au contraire, mon ami. Always good to have you around. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> * I've been paranoid for years, and enjoying Mr. Robot has only made >> that >>>> worse. :) For the last several years I've run my main laptop and >>>> workstation with no open ports (easy to do with Ubuntu since it ships >>> that >>>> way; took some work to harden my Mac). This has meant that as eagerly >> as >>> I >>>> used to visit openp2p.com and read the other things, these days P2P is >>> an >>>> interesting set of ideas but not something I focus on; all >> collaboration >>>> systems here use only outbound connections. >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Richard Gaskin >>>> Fourth World Systems >>>> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web >>>> ____________________________________________________________________ >>>> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >> On the second day, God created the oceans. >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >> and did a little diving. >> And God said, "This is good." >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Tue Aug 23 15:09:17 2016 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 12:09:17 -0700 Subject: Targetting teachers In-Reply-To: <5aec8559-5705-0c97-f166-0533a8ebac98@gmail.com> References: <5aec8559-5705-0c97-f166-0533a8ebac98@gmail.com> Message-ID: Richmond wrote: > Looking for something else I stumbled on this: > > https://archive.org/details/ERIC_ED432257 ... > Now all that needs to be done is substitute 'Livecode' for > 'Hypercard', so I would really like to know: > > 1. Why that is not being pushed in a major way (articles in teaching > publications?). > > 2. There seems to be almost zero support from educational > establishments for teachers to take the time to get up to speed > with this and develop in-house stuff for subject delivery and > reinforcement. Today's audience has very different needs from when that article was written in 1999. And with HyperCard designed as an authoring tool while LiveCode is designed as a development tool, the opportunities for using LiveCode to teach CS in K-12 require a different approach. In addition to the many differences between the tools themselves, teaching methods have changed as well. Much of the courseware that was delivered on CD-ROM back in the day is now delivered over the Web with Moodle. And there are many other difference besides. But one thing they all have in common is the need for a computer, a keyboard, and an engaged learner - that foundational recipe remains the essence of the challenge ahead. In the UK, LiveCode is already part of the core curriculum for grade school Computer Science. As we've explore ways we might achieve this among the educators in the States, one factor became clear: nothing happens in US EDU unless it meets the Common Core standards. One of the projects in the EDU Outreach team in the forums identified this need early on, for the formation of what we hope will become a teacher's guide to LC. Through a stroke of good fortune, one of the friends I met through the SoCal Linux Expo has been coming to our local LC user group meetings, and has generously begun the task of outlining Common Core standards in a format we can then build upon for flesh out curricula. I'm hoping that once the Common Core summary is available we may be able to find existing materials in our community to meet those learning objectives, and perhaps create and share templates to fill in any remaining gaps. The thread for that project is here - anyone interested in furthering LC in EDU is welcome to participate: -- Richard Gaskin LiveCode Community Liaison richard at livecode.org From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Tue Aug 23 15:10:59 2016 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 22:10:59 +0300 Subject: Strict is in; lax is out In-Reply-To: References: <156b871c25f-1933-c2@webprd-a12.mail.aol.com> <5b6100c8-e9f2-d1a3-bb2f-71d1339dd5e5@gmail.com> <500b94c5-921f-d2f6-c4f3-544a2be93b25@gmail.com> Message-ID: <26a50e98-49fc-20df-2bfc-0a875f819ff3@gmail.com> Super: https://web.archive.org/web/20140222193139/http://www.scoopsfolks.com/digicomp1 Richmond. On 23.08.2016 21:51, Peter Bogdanoff wrote: > Well, MY first programming was with the Digi-Comp, a 3-bit plastic mechanical computer during the 1960s. > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digi-Comp_I > > It was very strict. > > Peter Bogdanoff > > >> On Aug 23, 2016, at 2:04 PM, Richmond wrote: >> >> Well that's because my cousin, Stephen Mathewson set up the first computer system at Imperial College in London . . . >> >> http://sim.sagepub.com/content/23/6/181.abstract >> >> Richmond. >> >> >> On 23.08.2016 20:46, Mike Kerner wrote: >>> The fact that you remember how to spell the man's name just proves the >>> point. >>> >>> On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 1:41 PM, Richmond >>> wrote: >>> >>>> "Holereth my ass." >>>> >>>> Does that involve 2 spelling mistakes or only one? >>>> >>>> I'm trying to envisage hitting a donkey with a Hollerith card, which if >>>> you think about things is not quite as bad as if there are 2 (from a >>>> British perspective) spelling mistakes there. >>>> >>>> Especially if one understands "Hollerith" to be a verb in the imperative! >>>> >>>> Whichever way you cut things, that is in no way "High-Level". >>>> >>>> Now bragging about how old we are, or how long ago we first laid our >>>> sweaty paws on an computer language is one thing, but doing things to >>>> donkeys or ??? is another completely. >>>> >>>> Richmond. >>>> >>>> >>>> On 23.08.2016 20:33, Mike Kerner wrote: >>>> >>>> OMG stop. Let's not all brag about how old we are. Holereth my ass. >>>>> I have not found an assembly language that I didn't like. On some >>>>> processors, it's like writing in a high-level language. >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 1:27 PM, wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I miss eight toggle switches with eight little lamps (this was before >>>>>> LED's). >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Craig >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: stephen barncard >>>>>> To: How to use LiveCode >>>>>> Sent: Tue, Aug 23, 2016 12:34 pm >>>>>> Subject: Re: Strict is in; lax is out >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 8:41 AM, Richmond >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> C "is the mother of all languages": I assume you are being extremely >>>>>>> coarse, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> because C is not the "Mummy" of all languages. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> the most granular of all computer languages are the hex opcodes that >>>>>> drive >>>>>> your favorite processor of choice... >>>>>> >>>>>> Assembly language programmers eat their young.... I saw that somewhere... >>>>>> >>>>>> Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA - >>>>>> mixstream.org >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Tue Aug 23 15:18:31 2016 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 12:18:31 -0700 Subject: Markdown in 8.1dp2 Mac app builds In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <16945e41-bc01-ef01-2b52-c51b91592432@fourthworld.com> Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote: > Jerry wrote: > > Also, dp2 may be too unstable for me to be productive. > > FWIW: dp2 had me deep in despair (couldn't get anything done)? been > working in dp3 for two weeks. it is a whole different experience? > even the project browser now works. I think I'm missing some messages from the archives, as I was unable to find the original post in this thread. Where is markdown supported within LiveCode, and how is it impacting your work? On the PB, what's the bug #? I've seen some work on that recently, but can't recall the number offhand. And why Developer Preview 2 when DP3's been out since last month? Lot's of changes between those two; most issues I'd reported had been addressed. I've been having pretty good luck with the DP 3 build of 8.1 thus far, but I do like to stay apprised of issues that may affect my work so I can help triage them if they pop up, hopefully ironing out any remaining ones to get to an RC soon (I'm really looking forward to deploying with 8.1 - lots of nice goodies in this one). -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From me at jerrydaniels.com Tue Aug 23 15:30:10 2016 From: me at jerrydaniels.com (me at jerrydaniels.com) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 14:30:10 -0500 Subject: Markdown in 8.1dp2 Mac app builds In-Reply-To: References: <5D809565-F2DA-4D01-89B9-AF89A9A5FEC0@appisle.net> <081D0E10-7192-41D4-A50F-2BEE9D963E7C@appisle.net> <8E5A78A6-5314-45E1-95F2-B2D3730FE121@jerrydaniels.com> <2DFBCCD8-D416-434A-BA7C-EBBC759DF5DF@appisle.net> <9FCEF767-7977-4F52-9997-F3C3C0C92E94@appisle.net> Message-ID: <070a21af-0ebd-4eea-a48e-454665bb690d@Spark> Thx for the note, Swamiji. I tried dp3 also and found it much better. Richard, it was impossible to include the mergEXT markdown lib in a build w dp3. monte was aware. On Aug 23, 2016, 2:01 PM -0500, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami , wrote: > Jerry wrote: > > Also, dp2 may be too unstable for me to be productive. > > FWIW: dp2 had me deep in despair (couldn't get anything done)? been working in dp3 for two weeks. it is a whole different experience? even the project browser now works. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From david at viral.academy Tue Aug 23 15:31:34 2016 From: david at viral.academy (David Bovill) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 20:31:34 +0100 Subject: blockchain In-Reply-To: References: <1e6bf6b0-d6e0-43a0-8881-7c510a48c3a4@Spark> Message-ID: Thanks for the link! On 23 August 2016 at 20:00, Jerry Jensen wrote: > IEEE is getting interested in blockchain technology. Here?s a basic > article: > > http://theinstitute.ieee.org/technology-topics/computing/ > getting-linked-to-the-blockchain > > .Jerry J > > > On Aug 20, 2016, at 2:17 AM, David Bovill wrote: > > > > Mike that would be great. I'd like to get together a small group to > > research together the integration of Livecode with blockchain - starting > in > > November. The format would be asynchronous work with some live > > get-togethers. > > > > Involvement does not need to be super-geeky. It will be a research group, > > so I'll collect links, podcasts and videos and present these within a > > Livecode environment - so there is a need for media, writing and research > > skills and we will be working together on a publication within Livecode. > > This publication will also be online and on the decentralised web. > > Super-geeks with a knowledge of Javascript and Livecode are also more > than > > welcome. > > > > If anyone else is interested just email me here or off-list, and I'll > send > > out information when the dates are confirmed. > > > > On 18 August 2016 at 13:44, Mike Kerner > wrote: > > > >> James, I'm always interested in what other folks are doing, and I'd > like to > >> hear more about the setup. David, I'd definitely be interested. > >> > >> On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 6:20 AM, David Bovill > wrote: > >> > >>> Yes - I've been interested in Livecode and blockchain for a couple of > >> years > >>> now. I've been following Ethereum since the beginning - we tried to > make > >> a > >>> documentary about the project and I went to DevCon 1 in Berlin as the > >> team > >>> started it's development. > >>> > >>> There is an interesting online Hackathon in November if any Livecoders > >> are > >>> interested in taking part / forming a team? > >>> > >>> On 18 August 2016 at 01:27, Richard Gaskin > > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Jerry Daniels wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> On Aug 17, 2016, 5:12 PM -0500, Richard Gaskin wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> What is the business benefit for this application to go P2P rather > >>>>>> than client-server? > >>>>> > >>>>> Richard, cost savings, security, privacy. Costs are drastically > >>>>> reduced without hosting and its (hidden) labor/maintenance. Just > >>>>> think about the long record of exploitation of hosted SQL data. > >>>>> Not in the models were discussing here. > >>>> > >>>> I like the idea* of P2P for some applications, but with the explosion > >> of > >>>> cloud services the client-server model seems to have merit as well. > >>>> > >>>> On the one hand, there are the risks of managing (hopefully redundant) > >>>> server farms. On the other hand there are the risks of having every > >>> client > >>>> also be a server, but without a team of professionals hardening and > >>>> monitoring it. > >>>> > >>>> All systems are hackable. Ideally prevention, monitoring, and > recovery > >>>> are budgeted for in the business plan with any architecture. > >>>> > >>>> I believe there's a role for both client-server and P2P, and federated > >>>> models as well. Each has its own benefits and tradeoffs; like > >>> programming > >>>> languages, there'll always be more because use cases where they can > add > >>>> value only grow and diversify. > >>>> > >>>> Back to blockchains, from my reading it's becoming clear that the > >>>> distributed trust is a compelling feature, along with the increased > >> speed > >>>> with which transaction ledgers can be conveyed faithfully. Like the > >>> early > >>>> days of railroads, networks outside of Bitcoin employ different > >>> standards, > >>>> each with its own kinks to work out but worth the effort. Over time it > >>>> seems likely they'll impact global quality of life as significantly as > >>> the > >>>> invention of compound interest. > >>>> > >>>> Lots to learn.... > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> Richard, Mike...sorry for my butting in here. Feel free to ignore my > >>>>> interruption. > >>>> > >>>> Au contraire, mon ami. Always good to have you around. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> * I've been paranoid for years, and enjoying Mr. Robot has only made > >> that > >>>> worse. :) For the last several years I've run my main laptop and > >>>> workstation with no open ports (easy to do with Ubuntu since it ships > >>> that > >>>> way; took some work to harden my Mac). This has meant that as eagerly > >> as > >>> I > >>>> used to visit openp2p.com and read the other things, these days P2P > is > >>> an > >>>> interesting set of ideas but not something I focus on; all > >> collaboration > >>>> systems here use only outbound connections. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> Richard Gaskin > >>>> Fourth World Systems > >>>> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > >>>> ____________________________________________________________________ > >>>> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> use-livecode mailing list > >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >>>> subscription preferences: > >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >>>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> use-livecode mailing list > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >>> subscription preferences: > >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > >> On the second day, God created the oceans. > >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > >> and did a little diving. > >> And God said, "This is good." > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Tue Aug 23 15:31:29 2016 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (mwieder) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 12:31:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Markdown in 8.1dp2 Mac app builds In-Reply-To: <16945e41-bc01-ef01-2b52-c51b91592432@fourthworld.com> References: <5D809565-F2DA-4D01-89B9-AF89A9A5FEC0@appisle.net> <081D0E10-7192-41D4-A50F-2BEE9D963E7C@appisle.net> <8E5A78A6-5314-45E1-95F2-B2D3730FE121@jerrydaniels.com> <2DFBCCD8-D416-434A-BA7C-EBBC759DF5DF@appisle.net> <9FCEF767-7977-4F52-9997-F3C3C0C92E94@appisle.net> <16945e41-bc01-ef01-2b52-c51b91592432@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <1471980689671-4707777.post@n4.nabble.com> I think I'm missing some messages from the archives, as I was unable to find the original post in this thread. Yeah, the listserv has been dropping messages for me for over a week now. I've been excommunicated at least twice (using Nabble now). Here's the original thread from 10 July: and Nabble's archives: ----- -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Markdown-in-8-1dp2-Mac-app-builds-tp4706535p4707777.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From me at jerrydaniels.com Tue Aug 23 15:34:42 2016 From: me at jerrydaniels.com (me at jerrydaniels.com) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 14:34:42 -0500 Subject: Very OT - Bad pun In-Reply-To: <69AA4C74-4E9C-40DD-A10F-5E69C73619AD@hindu.org> References: <677062E1-58F7-48D7-A52E-A37CCF6E7210@jerrydaniels.com> <0E429C81-BBBC-4D3D-8649-7581230F2BDF@jerrydaniels.com> <99980660-7B77-4A4D-906B-ED790D9C2519@appisle.net> <1465669282569-4705678.post@n4.nabble.com> <69AA4C74-4E9C-40DD-A10F-5E69C73619AD@hindu.org> Message-ID: Glad to be here, BR. But then I tend to feel that way wherever I might be. Nonetheless, thx for the ack! On Aug 23, 2016, 2:01 PM -0500, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami , wrote: > uh oh? Now I have to read the list just to read Jerry's "stand up" deliveries. Welcome back Jerry. Your spirit was missed. > > BR > > Jerry Daniels-3 wrote > and I can't think of anything that rhymes Edinburgh... but if we moved it > just a little ways away we could call it the "Fiasco is Glasgow" > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Tue Aug 23 15:48:14 2016 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 22:48:14 +0300 Subject: Targetting teachers In-Reply-To: References: <5aec8559-5705-0c97-f166-0533a8ebac98@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7bbaf37d-bf87-07ac-c510-6ffd9417ce75@gmail.com> On 23.08.2016 22:09, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Richmond wrote: > > > Looking for something else I stumbled on this: > > > > https://archive.org/details/ERIC_ED432257 > ... > > Now all that needs to be done is substitute 'Livecode' for > > 'Hypercard', so I would really like to know: > > > > 1. Why that is not being pushed in a major way (articles in teaching > > publications?). > > > > 2. There seems to be almost zero support from educational > > establishments for teachers to take the time to get up to speed > > with this and develop in-house stuff for subject delivery and > > reinforcement. > > Today's audience has very different needs from when that article was > written in 1999. And with HyperCard designed as an authoring tool > while LiveCode is designed as a development tool, the opportunities > for using LiveCode to teach CS in K-12 require a different approach. I'm not entirely convinced about that as one can, if one wants, use *Hypercard* as a development tool (just so long as one can find a market of people who are deploying a bunch of Performas), and one can equally well use *Livecode* as an authroring tool. In fact I think that *Livecode* has made a slight mistake in not pointing out that it is perfectly possible to use Livecode as an authoring tool, as by not doing that I believe it has cut itself off from a section of the educational market. Just to point out something, however goofy it may seem in the great scheme of things, my Mother goes to pottery classes (at 86) and makes some things that are really quite good. Now to market her sculptures she popped together a quick cross-platform presentation standalone with Livecode. Certainly she is NOT doing software development, but she is authoring something that serves her purpose in a way that the dreaded PowerPoint does not: for with a Livecode standalone she does not have to bet about what software an art gallery has on its system. > > In addition to the many differences between the tools themselves, > teaching methods have changed as well. Really? Says who? A standalone that delivers 15 minutes of immersive experience to a demotivated pupil will always prove a winner. > Much of the courseware that was delivered on CD-ROM back in the day > is now delivered over the Web with Moodle. And there are many other > difference besides. Yup: and you should here the filthy words issuing from my local University's English department (where my wife is a Professor and I am a visiting lecturer) when anyone has to do something with Moodle. > > But one thing they all have in common is the need for a computer, a > keyboard, and an engaged learner - that foundational recipe remains > the essence of the challenge ahead. Read my lips: an immersive standalone will engage 99% of learners. I teach every kind of child from 100% bright, engaged kids who you'd have to push into a deep freeze to get them to stop using their brains at max 24/7 to totally disinterested slack-jawed morons (Richmond's best politically correct phraseology); and in 10 years of my EFL school I've yet to have a kid who hasn't focussed straight off when presented a colourful, engaging piece of a standalone, even if it is only something getting them to learn fairly simple vocabulary. This is not even making reference to stuff I got going on my BBC Master Compact in a Primary school in Al Ain, UAE in 1989 ("back in the day" as you put it), or Hypercard stuff in Carbondale, Illinois, or Hypercard and Toolbook stuff in the UAE University back in Al Ain, UAE (I like that town), or Metacard/RR stuff with EFL learners at St. Andrews University in Scotland. No difference really! 27 years of pushing immersive software at people from 5 - 24 years old makes me begin to look like a drug king! > > In the UK, LiveCode is already part of the core curriculum for grade > school Computer Science. That's for children to learn programming with: that is not targetting teachers with Livecode as authorware. I wonder exactly what you mean by "the UK" because Scotland has its own, distinct, education system that is different from that used in England and Wales. > > As we've explore ways we might achieve this among the educators in the > States, one factor became clear: nothing happens in US EDU unless it > meets the Common Core standards. > > One of the projects in the EDU Outreach team in the forums identified > this need early on, for the formation of what we hope will become a > teacher's guide to LC. I see a need for 2 things: 1. A book for teachers on how they can leverage Livecode to author stuff for classroom content delivery and reinforcement relatively quickly. i.e. *Livecode as Authorware.* 2. A book for teachers of IT to assist them in teaching young children how to perform elementary programming tasks with Livecode. i.e. *Livecode as an entry-level Programming Environment. *Both areas are areas in which Livecode rocks 100%, but I don't think things are served very well if the 2 areas are confused or conflated. > > Through a stroke of good fortune, one of the friends I met through the > SoCal Linux Expo has been coming to our local LC user group meetings, > and has generously begun the task of outlining Common Core standards > in a format we can then build upon for flesh out curricula. > > I'm hoping that once the Common Core summary is available we may be > able to find existing materials in our community to meet those > learning objectives, and perhaps create and share templates to fill in > any remaining gaps. > > The thread for that project is here - anyone interested in furthering > LC in EDU is welcome to participate: > > > I am starting some sort of a book; whether for #1 or #2 above is yet to be seen, although just possibly I will end up with both. Richmond. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Tue Aug 23 15:51:14 2016 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 22:51:14 +0300 Subject: Very OT - Bad pun In-Reply-To: References: <677062E1-58F7-48D7-A52E-A37CCF6E7210@jerrydaniels.com> <0E429C81-BBBC-4D3D-8649-7581230F2BDF@jerrydaniels.com> <99980660-7B77-4A4D-906B-ED790D9C2519@appisle.net> <1465669282569-4705678.post@n4.nabble.com> <69AA4C74-4E9C-40DD-A10F-5E69C73619AD@hindu.org> Message-ID: Well, as most North Americans seem to pronounce "Edinburgh" as "Edinbro" . . . one could almost say that the Fiasco grows and grows! Divided by a common language we stand; United we . . . ? Richmond. On 23.08.2016 22:34, me at jerrydaniels.com wrote: > Glad to be here, BR. But then I tend to feel that way wherever I might be. Nonetheless, thx for the ack! > > On Aug 23, 2016, 2:01 PM -0500, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami , wrote: >> uh oh? Now I have to read the list just to read Jerry's "stand up" deliveries. Welcome back Jerry. Your spirit was missed. >> >> BR >> >> Jerry Daniels-3 wrote >> and I can't think of anything that rhymes Edinburgh... but if we moved it >> just a little ways away we could call it the "Fiasco is Glasgow" >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Tue Aug 23 16:39:35 2016 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 22:39:35 +0200 Subject: IPv6 & Apple In-Reply-To: <39574E51-068B-4DB6-B162-A235905BC626@earthednet.org> References: <50312378-4fdd-c1f6-46cd-b658411e8c2a@techstrategies.com.au> <06828857-3fdc-bebd-186e-148d1083b7fc@techstrategies.com.au> <39574E51-068B-4DB6-B162-A235905BC626@earthednet.org> Message-ID: <09BE22DE-1202-4F14-B15F-61ECE5A9E9E8@m-r-d.de> And for Livecode server there is a short tutorial with downloadable sample code about how to access Maria/MySQL databases from desktop or mobile apps using LiveCode server at https://www.hostm.com/tutorials/livecode/api-mariadb-mysql > Am 23.08.2016 um 16:47 schrieb Earthednet-wp : > > I put up a simple stack that might help you get started with php access to a MySQL db, perhaps helpful. > http://es.earthednet.org/SoftwareForEducation > Best, > Bill > > William Prothero > http://es.earthednet.org > >> On Aug 22, 2016, at 10:19 PM, Charles Warwick wrote: >> >>> On 23/08/2016 2:27 pm, Charles Warwick wrote: >>> Hi Scott, >>> >>> Ok, there are a couple of issues there. >>> >>> Using "198.01.234.54:1234" as tDatabaseAddress indicates you are using a hardcoded IPv4 address which can cause problems. >>> >>> However there is a bigger issue there in that the database library in LC does not support IPv6. >>> >>> This means that for iOS apps that you want to submit to the app store, you cannot directly connect to a remote database server using LC's built-in database library. >> I should clarify that further... the database library does not support the use IPv6 addresses in a similar manner to what you are doing with the IPv4 address above. >> >> However, looking back through the archives, Fraser mentioned that it should work if you use a hostname instead (e.g. database.mydomain.com). >> >> If that is correct (I have not tested it), you should be able to just set up a DNS entry that resolves to the IP address you are using, and change tDatabaseAddress accordingly. >> >> Regards, >> >> Charles >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Tue Aug 23 17:09:29 2016 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 14:09:29 -0700 Subject: Targetting teachers In-Reply-To: <7bbaf37d-bf87-07ac-c510-6ffd9417ce75@gmail.com> References: <7bbaf37d-bf87-07ac-c510-6ffd9417ce75@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3060f952-58a5-71b4-548e-b2b1fd0cd132@fourthworld.com> Richmond wrote: > On 23.08.2016 22:09, Richard Gaskin wrote: > >> Today's audience has very different needs from when that article was >> written in 1999. And with HyperCard designed as an authoring tool >> while LiveCode is designed as a development tool, the opportunities >> for using LiveCode to teach CS in K-12 require a different approach. > > I'm not entirely convinced about that as one can, if one wants, use > *Hypercard* as a development tool (just so long as one can find a > market of people who are deploying a bunch of Performas), and one > can equally well use *Livecode* as an authroring tool. > > In fact I think that *Livecode* has made a slight mistake in not > pointing out that it is perfectly possible to use Livecode as an > authoring tool, as by not doing that I believe it has cut itself off > from a section of the educational market. I collect multitools. I have one in my car, one on my keychain, one in my backpack, and two in my bicycle's panier. Even though they have many tools in common, each has a different use-case focus. The one I use on my bike would not be the best choice for hiking, and vice versa. HyperCard was used for many things, even as a database despite Atkinson himself trying to remind everyone that it wasn't a database. :) LiveCode is even more flexible, able to cover that ground and more. But HyperCard had smaller boundaries, limits that were useful in their way, liberating by providing guidance for the newcomer. Its User Levels are a good example: they make good sense in an authoring tool, and have never been part of LiveCode. I think the teams behind both tools made the right choice there, different because the tool's focus is different. Personally, I like how Bill Appleton summed up the differences between HyperCard and SuperCard, fitting here where we might replace "SuperCard" with "LiveCode": HyperCard is a multimedia authoring environment. SuperCard is a tool you can use to build multimedia authoring environments. > A standalone that delivers 15 minutes of immersive experience to a > demotivated pupil will always prove a winner. Agreed, though it's worth noting that HyperCard rose to popularity long before it later added the ability to produce standalones. Curious: what distinguishes "immersive"? >> Much of the courseware that was delivered on CD-ROM back in the day >> is now delivered over the Web with Moodle. And there are many other >> difference besides. > > Yup: and you should here the filthy words issuing from my local > University's English department (where my wife is a Professor and I > am a visiting lecturer) when anyone has to do something with Moodle. I haven't used Moodle myself so I have no opinion about it. But it seems very popular. For comparison, LiveCode.com's Alexa ranking is very healthy at 139,248, but Moodle astounds with a ranking of 9,085. They must be doing something right. What might we learn from their successes to make LiveCode as easy a choice for educators? >> In the UK, LiveCode is already part of the core curriculum for grade >> school Computer Science. > > That's for children to learn programming with: that is not targetting > teachers with Livecode as authorware. I believe the teachers are a part of that classroom experience, though you're right, flipped learning is gaining in many EDU settings. > I wonder exactly what you mean by "the UK" because Scotland has its > own, distinct, education system that is different from that used in > England and Wales. I meant nothing all that deep: Scotland is within the UK, and I don't know the specific boundaries of LC's use within the UK. >> As we've explore ways we might achieve this among the educators in >> the States, one factor became clear: nothing happens in US EDU >> unless it meets the Common Core standards. >> >> One of the projects in the EDU Outreach team in the forums >> identified this need early on, for the formation of what we hope >> will become a teacher's guide to LC. > > I see a need for 2 things: > > 1. A book for teachers on how they can leverage Livecode to author > stuff for classroom content delivery and reinforcement relatively > quickly. i.e. *Livecode as Authorware.* "Authorware" is a US trademark owned by Adobe. But assuming a more general term can be found, yes, with some good tools and templates to provide a focus on delivering courseware LiveCode can be an excellent foundation for a great many EDU needs. > 2. A book for teachers of IT to assist them in teaching young > children how to perform elementary programming tasks with Livecode. > i.e. *Livecode as an entry-level Programming Environment. Agreed there as well. One of the goals of the EDU Outreach projects is that everything be delivered under GPL or GPL-compatible license. So if there's anything that project produces that might be useful, we'll have licensing that actively encourages sharing and re-purposing. -- Richard Gaskin LiveCode Community Liaison richard at livecode.org From stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com Tue Aug 23 17:27:20 2016 From: stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com (stephen barncard) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 14:27:20 -0700 Subject: Strict is in; lax is out In-Reply-To: <26a50e98-49fc-20df-2bfc-0a875f819ff3@gmail.com> References: <156b871c25f-1933-c2@webprd-a12.mail.aol.com> <5b6100c8-e9f2-d1a3-bb2f-71d1339dd5e5@gmail.com> <500b94c5-921f-d2f6-c4f3-544a2be93b25@gmail.com> <26a50e98-49fc-20df-2bfc-0a875f819ff3@gmail.com> Message-ID: Imagine writing a Z80 disassembler in a 6502 assembler. Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA - mixstream.org > From stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com Tue Aug 23 17:29:22 2016 From: stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com (stephen barncard) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 14:29:22 -0700 Subject: Very OT - Bad pun In-Reply-To: References: <677062E1-58F7-48D7-A52E-A37CCF6E7210@jerrydaniels.com> <0E429C81-BBBC-4D3D-8649-7581230F2BDF@jerrydaniels.com> <99980660-7B77-4A4D-906B-ED790D9C2519@appisle.net> <1465669282569-4705678.post@n4.nabble.com> <69AA4C74-4E9C-40DD-A10F-5E69C73619AD@hindu.org> Message-ID: On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 12:51 PM, Richmond wrote: > Well, as most North Americans seem to pronounce "Edinburgh" as "Edinbro" . > . . I pronounced it ED-IN-BURG for years Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA - mixstream.org From alex at tweedly.net Tue Aug 23 18:23:54 2016 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 23:23:54 +0100 Subject: Performance issues LC8 versus earlier versions. In-Reply-To: <93fefe2d-4c4d-3245-6e6c-1183e0b09904@fourthworld.com> References: <93fefe2d-4c4d-3245-6e6c-1183e0b09904@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <159121c6-71cf-f752-769a-115904905ab8@tweedly.net> On 22/08/2016 15:47, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Alex Tweedly wrote: > > > Would caseSensitive make it faster ? > > In theory yes, since it avoids having to run the internal equivalent > of toLower on each thing being compared. > But since these are bytes, not chars, that doesn't apply. > However in some recent experiments involving pattern matching on text > I was unable to measure a difference. That shouldn't be taken as > definitive; there are a lot of distracting things going on in the > routine I was testing with. I haven't yet done a good isolated test > of caseSensitive. > > > > Re md5 for repeated use - yes, it probably is worth doing. > > The rsync algo offers an md5 option, but by default it compares files > based only on mod date and size. The thinking is that if both of > those match, the odds of having a changed file are very low. > > Perhaps an optimal algo in your system would reserve md5 for those > cases where size and mod date match, which will eliminate most cases > with less CPU time. > Thanks Richard, but this is a very different context. In my case, the mod dates will never match; the duplicate files arise because the user has imported the same photos from a camera more than once (into different folders, or into the the same one using auto-renaming), or has copied a folder of files to trim out the ones to be copied to another machine, or .... any of a number of things, but all causing the copied file to have a different mod date from the original. My original benchmarking was faulty; in fact, taking the md5hash for the two files is only 50% more expensive than simply comparing them (higher if they are actually different), but that leaves the conclusion unchanged - it's not worth the extra complexity. There is an assumption underlying this - that in real life (different from my development phase), the majority of genuine duplicates will be dealt with (i.e. one copy deleted or moved elsewhere) fairly quickly, so the same comparisons won't be run repeatedly. The remaining cases of same file size are so rare (around 80 in my full 50,000 file set) that pair-wise comparisons take only 4 seconds (or 2 seconds if I use an older version of LC), so no great impact on the user experience. (The other parts of the overall workflow - where I would like to gather and use the exif data - are more strongly impacted by the performance issue - but my desire to use the latest of LC8 rather than an obsolete version is probably strong enough to override that, and I'll just be more patient - even though patient is not my natural state :-) From devin_asay at byu.edu Tue Aug 23 18:40:55 2016 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 22:40:55 +0000 Subject: Strict is in; lax is out In-Reply-To: References: <156b871c25f-1933-c2@webprd-a12.mail.aol.com> <5b6100c8-e9f2-d1a3-bb2f-71d1339dd5e5@gmail.com> <500b94c5-921f-d2f6-c4f3-544a2be93b25@gmail.com> <26a50e98-49fc-20df-2bfc-0a875f819ff3@gmail.com> Message-ID: > On Aug 23, 2016, at 3:27 PM, stephen barncard wrote: > > Imagine writing a Z80 disassembler in a 6502 assembler. > On Aug 23, 2016, at 11:49 AM, Colin Holgate wrote: > > I did once have to program a machine using toggle switches. But that was as part of a computer course in 1982, long after the machine in question was still in use. I feel an Old Yorkshiremen sketch coming on. Ohhh, we used to DREAM of toggle switches. We used to program on our hands and knees on sharp gravel using nothin? but rocks and sticks we fished out of the open sewers! ;-) Devin Devin Asay Director Office of Digital Humanities Brigham Young University From monte at appisle.net Tue Aug 23 19:06:18 2016 From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2016 09:06:18 +1000 Subject: Performance issues LC8 versus earlier versions. In-Reply-To: <159121c6-71cf-f752-769a-115904905ab8@tweedly.net> References: <93fefe2d-4c4d-3245-6e6c-1183e0b09904@fourthworld.com> <159121c6-71cf-f752-769a-115904905ab8@tweedly.net> Message-ID: > On 24 Aug 2016, at 8:23 AM, Alex Tweedly wrote: > > On 22/08/2016 15:47, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> Alex Tweedly wrote: >> >> > Would caseSensitive make it faster ? >> >> In theory yes, since it avoids having to run the internal equivalent of toLower on each thing being compared. >> > But since these are bytes, not chars, that doesn't apply. Yes this was a red herring on my part. Sorry about that. As far as the test goes it would seem there?s an optimisation the engine could make where when we work out that we have two exact duplicates of binary data in memory we could release one and reference the other. However, this is unlikely to help you all that much. As for the slowdown I think this may be something we can?t do much about without implementing some kind of binary only comparison operator. After reviewing the code path I see that there is an attempt made to parse the binary value into a number to try and compare numerically before doing the binary comparison. It may be we can change the order here and if both left and right are binary just compare the memory first. > on mouseUp > put URL ("binfile:/Users/alextweedly/Dropbox (Personal)/Pictures/2016/101_0818/IMGP0021.JPG") into tData1 > put URL ("binfile:/Users/alextweedly/Dropbox (Personal)/Pictures/2016/101_0818/IMGP0021.JPG") into tData2 > -- put tData1 into tData2 > put the millisecs into time1 > repeat 5 times > if tData1 = tData2 then > add 1 to temp > end if > end repeat > put the number of bytes in tData1 && the millisecs - time1 && temp into msg > end mouseUp From lfredricks at proactive-intl.com Tue Aug 23 19:13:30 2016 From: lfredricks at proactive-intl.com (Lynn Fredricks) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 16:13:30 -0700 Subject: Targetting teachers In-Reply-To: <3060f952-58a5-71b4-548e-b2b1fd0cd132@fourthworld.com> References: <7bbaf37d-bf87-07ac-c510-6ffd9417ce75@gmail.com> <3060f952-58a5-71b4-548e-b2b1fd0cd132@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: > I haven't used Moodle myself so I have no opinion about it. > But it seems very popular. > > For comparison, LiveCode.com's Alexa ranking is very healthy > at 139,248, but Moodle astounds with a ranking of 9,085. > > They must be doing something right. What might we learn from > their successes to make LiveCode as easy a choice for educators? Moodle is an open source replacement for very expensive courseware solutions like Blackboard. Both of them occupy the education market as education products. In working with other education products, I found that products fall into two camps: - an education product that happens to be delivered using innovative technology - innovative technology that is tailored to the education market The most successful products in the education market seem to be ones made by companies that go 'all in' to education, unless there is overwhelming dominance (often supported by a vendor that can afford to give away their education versions, like Autodesk). Id say at one point, HyperStudio was finely honed for the K-12 market, but I don't think it was ever really marketed strongly enough into that market. Much like corporate sales, selling to K-12 or to higher education you have to sell in the way that makes it easiest for them to buy. And to make them want to buy, you have to be at the events they attend. Best regards, Lynn Fredricks Paradigma Software http://www.paradigmasoft.com Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server From monte at appisle.net Tue Aug 23 19:50:37 2016 From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2016 09:50:37 +1000 Subject: Performance issues LC8 versus earlier versions. In-Reply-To: References: <93fefe2d-4c4d-3245-6e6c-1183e0b09904@fourthworld.com> <159121c6-71cf-f752-769a-115904905ab8@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <5220FCBA-1944-4D1C-94B6-4D41938BA192@appisle.net> > On 24 Aug 2016, at 9:06 AM, Monte Goulding wrote: > > After reviewing the code path I see that there is an attempt made to parse the binary value into a number to try and compare numerically before doing the binary comparison. It may be we can change the order here and if both left and right are binary just compare the memory first. I?ve made this patch https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/4409 to get the ball rolling on improving the performance here. However, it will currently break any number comparisons where the strings are different but the numbers are the same such as octal to decimal. It only breaks them if they are both currently in binary strings. It is possible I think to work out if both sides are binary and of a size that they are clearly not numbers (or at least LC can?t represent them as numbers) then do a binary comparison there. Then try and covert to numbers and then check again if they are binary. Of course I may be worried over nothing because people should be decoding binary strings before they try and use them as numbers anyway... Just moving the code as I did above brought my test of your code on an 8.5 MB file down from 60ms to 5ms. Cheers Monte From brahma at hindu.org Wed Aug 24 00:55:54 2016 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2016 04:55:54 +0000 Subject: Browser Widget vs the "old" RevBrowser Message-ID: <8AD54002-2576-48FA-B393-6B83CA3368AC@hindu.org> We've had a major obstacle with the use of the browser widget confirmed and fixed.. and "awaiting release" it has to do with the browser widget not being "destroyed" when no longer in view if you open a second stack in mobile, the browser widget is still there in the pixel space above the whole stack (even though you can't see it) and is trapping all tap/touch events? see: http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17962 for details. it would be ideal to know when the "release" will be, but I guess that is classified. In the meantime it puts one on the fence? for development going forward, use the widget or revert to the old "revBrowser"? The has, at least on the surface of it, a much more robust API for controlling the web UX than the widget? (I'm probably wrong there.. but just looking at the dictionary commands for either one, that's the feeling one gets) So the questions are: 1) what are the differences between the browser Widget and the old RevBrowser? 2) why would you choose one over the other? 3) Does the widget simply use an LBC wrapper for the same web it that the "old" revBrowser uses? Brahmanathaswami From smudge.andy at googlemail.com Wed Aug 24 02:27:36 2016 From: smudge.andy at googlemail.com (AndyP) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 23:27:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Browser Widget vs the "old" RevBrowser In-Reply-To: <8AD54002-2576-48FA-B393-6B83CA3368AC@hindu.org> References: <8AD54002-2576-48FA-B393-6B83CA3368AC@hindu.org> Message-ID: <1472020056749-4707791.post@n4.nabble.com> Hi, A couple of your questions may have been answered here. http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=27793 ----- Andy Piddock My software never has bugs. It just develops random features. Copy the new cloud space, get your free 15GB space now: Get Copy Script editor Themer for LC http://2108.co.uk PointandSee is a FREE simple but full featured under cursor colour picker / finder. http://www.pointandsee.co.uk - made with LiveCode -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Browser-Widget-vs-the-old-RevBrowser-tp4707790p4707791.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Aug 24 03:31:14 2016 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2016 10:31:14 +0300 Subject: Targetting teachers In-Reply-To: <3060f952-58a5-71b4-548e-b2b1fd0cd132@fourthworld.com> References: <7bbaf37d-bf87-07ac-c510-6ffd9417ce75@gmail.com> <3060f952-58a5-71b4-548e-b2b1fd0cd132@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <8c2bb2a5-c22e-f1d4-2c6d-cc7a55b253ad@gmail.com> On 24.08.2016 00:09, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Richmond wrote: > > > On 23.08.2016 22:09, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > > >> Today's audience has very different needs from when that article was > >> written in 1999. And with HyperCard designed as an authoring tool > >> while LiveCode is designed as a development tool, the opportunities > >> for using LiveCode to teach CS in K-12 require a different approach. > > > > I'm not entirely convinced about that as one can, if one wants, use > > *Hypercard* as a development tool (just so long as one can find a > > market of people who are deploying a bunch of Performas), and one > > can equally well use *Livecode* as an authroring tool. > > > > In fact I think that *Livecode* has made a slight mistake in not > > pointing out that it is perfectly possible to use Livecode as an > > authoring tool, as by not doing that I believe it has cut itself off > > from a section of the educational market. > > I collect multitools. I have one in my car, one on my keychain, one > in my backpack, and two in my bicycle's panier. Even though they have > many tools in common, each has a different use-case focus. The one I > use on my bike would not be the best choice for hiking, and vice versa. > > HyperCard was used for many things, even as a database despite > Atkinson himself trying to remind everyone that it wasn't a database. :) > > LiveCode is even more flexible, able to cover that ground and more. > > But HyperCard had smaller boundaries, limits that were useful in their > way, liberating by providing guidance for the newcomer. > > Its User Levels are a good example: they make good sense in an > authoring tool, and have never been part of LiveCode. I think the > teams behind both tools made the right choice there, different because > the tool's focus is different. I disagree as I don't believe the tool has a focus in quite that way: it can have multiple foci, and which one is selected depends to a very large extent on the end-user. A while ago someone did raise the possibility of designing a front-end?GUI for Livecode that had User Levels, as well as a simplified Hypercard-like front-end. I did build a prototype HC-like front-end, but as nobody seemed terribly interested I didn't bother to develop it much further than an initial "toe in the water". There was quite a lot of "loose banter" about a flowering of multiple front-ends when the GPL version of LC was released: but that is a bit like the flowering that was supposed to happen under Communism: super in theory, but humans are not naturally communists and are greedy little so-and-sos, so there has to be some sort of profit motive. I, personally, think that one or two people spend far too much time looking back to a fast-receding "Golden Age" of Hypercard, which, with hindsight should be seen as good for its time, but nothing more. > > Personally, I like how Bill Appleton summed up the differences between > HyperCard and SuperCard, fitting here where we might replace > "SuperCard" with "LiveCode": > > HyperCard is a multimedia authoring environment. SuperCard is > a tool you can use to build multimedia authoring environments. Well, Livecode is neither Hypercard nor Supercard, although, I would argue, the wonderful things that both HC and SC brought (and SC still brings) to the table are subsets of what Livecode offers. It is exactly the subsets offered by HC and SC that seem to be neglected while great emphasis is being placed on LC as a full-blown computer programming language. LC is a full-blown computer programming language, but unlike most other full-blown computer programming languages it has all the strentghs of HC and SC as well, and it seems a crying shame to forget or ignore that. > > > > A standalone that delivers 15 minutes of immersive experience to a > > demotivated pupil will always prove a winner. > > Agreed, though it's worth noting that HyperCard rose to popularity > long before it later added the ability to produce standalones. > > Curious: what distinguishes "immersive"? Distinguishes "immersive" from what? Certainly to my mind "immersive" means that when an end-user sits down in front of a screen displaying a piece of software 100% of their attention is gripped and held by that software; they forget, for the sake of argument, that they have a headache, an itchy leg and a cough. I had a stroppy teenager who enjoyed himself enormously doing his utmost to provoke me when his Mum and Dad were actually paying me not to have adolescent fights with him but to teach him English. Now I can give as good as I can get with any stroppy teenager, but I do find that after 10 minutes I've had enough and a small voice inside me is reminding me that I'm meant to be shoe-horning English into the stroppy teenager. So, I get the stroppy teenager to sit down in front of a computer screen and look at some fairly goofy drag-n-drop activity in glorious technicolour (Please note I am avoiding the trademark "technicolor" . . . LOL), and blow-me-down if yon stroppy teenager doesn't stop being stroppy, starts scribbling in his notebook and generally getting on with what he is meant to be doing. That is "immersive". > > > >> Much of the courseware that was delivered on CD-ROM back in the day > >> is now delivered over the Web with Moodle. And there are many other > >> difference besides. > > > > Yup: and you should here the filthy words issuing from my local > > University's English department (where my wife is a Professor and I > > am a visiting lecturer) when anyone has to do something with Moodle. > > I haven't used Moodle myself so I have no opinion about it. But it > seems very popular. > > For comparison, LiveCode.com's Alexa ranking is very healthy at > 139,248, but Moodle astounds with a ranking of 9,085. > > They must be doing something right. What might we learn from their > successes to make LiveCode as easy a choice for educators? I think Moodle's edge is that it can be used collaboratively online. In other respects it is fairly substandard. > > > >> In the UK, LiveCode is already part of the core curriculum for grade > >> school Computer Science. > > > > That's for children to learn programming with: that is not targetting > > teachers with Livecode as authorware. > > I believe the teachers are a part of that classroom experience, though > you're right, flipped learning is gaining in many EDU settings. > > > > I wonder exactly what you mean by "the UK" because Scotland has its > > own, distinct, education system that is different from that used in > > England and Wales. > > I meant nothing all that deep: Scotland is within the UK, and I don't > know the specific boundaries of LC's use within the UK. "Scotland is within the UK" . . . well that is true, for now at least . . . but, just like individual states in the USA it does have its own department of education and educational system that does depart quite a bit from that in England. > > > >> As we've explore ways we might achieve this among the educators in > >> the States, one factor became clear: nothing happens in US EDU > >> unless it meets the Common Core standards. > >> > >> One of the projects in the EDU Outreach team in the forums > >> identified this need early on, for the formation of what we hope > >> will become a teacher's guide to LC. > > > > I see a need for 2 things: > > > > 1. A book for teachers on how they can leverage Livecode to author > > stuff for classroom content delivery and reinforcement relatively > > quickly. i.e. *Livecode as Authorware.* > > "Authorware" is a US trademark owned by Adobe. But assuming a more > general term can be found, yes, with some good tools and templates to > provide a focus on delivering courseware LiveCode can be an excellent > foundation for a great many EDU needs. > "Authorware" may be a trademark, and so is "Hoover", but that does not stop "Hoover" being used as a generic term for any vacuum cleaner in Britain. I used 'authorware' rather than"Authorware", and, trademark or not, it is a convenient term to mean something other than a "programming development suite"; and Adobe has, by producing its "Authorware" helped define what that is really rather well. The example that I gave with my mother exemplifies what I understand by 'authorware': little or no scripting. It may be useful (?) to design a "home stack" with preconfigured buttons and so forth . . . > > > 2. A book for teachers of IT to assist them in teaching young > > children how to perform elementary programming tasks with Livecode. > > i.e. *Livecode as an entry-level Programming Environment. > > Agreed there as well. One of the goals of the EDU Outreach projects > is that everything be delivered under GPL or GPL-compatible license. > So if there's anything that project produces that might be useful, > we'll have licensing that actively encourages sharing and re-purposing. > Kevin Miller has shown himself to be very switched-on indeed by adopting a dual licence model for Livecode. Where he has slipped up a bit is not pushing the GPL version into all sorts of niches that were a generation ago (Yes; we are dinosaurs) occupied by Hypercard and, owing to Hypercard's "death", lost. It is possible to envision a "Teacher's Development Pack" consisting of Livecode, a set of template stacks, and a book called something like "Livecode for Teachers" which gets teachers up to speed on AUTHORING stuff for in-house Curriculum delivery and reinforcement. This could even be sold for profit by Livecode. Richmond. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Aug 24 03:32:46 2016 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2016 10:32:46 +0300 Subject: Very OT - Bad pun In-Reply-To: References: <677062E1-58F7-48D7-A52E-A37CCF6E7210@jerrydaniels.com> <0E429C81-BBBC-4D3D-8649-7581230F2BDF@jerrydaniels.com> <99980660-7B77-4A4D-906B-ED790D9C2519@appisle.net> <1465669282569-4705678.post@n4.nabble.com> <69AA4C74-4E9C-40DD-A10F-5E69C73619AD@hindu.org> Message-ID: <24e4d15a-46ce-fcec-7406-db7228903a20@gmail.com> Maybe you have been pronouncing it ED-IN-BURG, but that is not how Scots pronounce it . . . So puns are out, but there is still a peerie problem in mid-Atlantic :) R. On 24.08.2016 00:29, stephen barncard wrote: > On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 12:51 PM, Richmond > wrote: > >> Well, as most North Americans seem to pronounce "Edinburgh" as "Edinbro" . >> . . > > I pronounced it ED-IN-BURG for years > > Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA - > mixstream.org > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Aug 24 03:34:20 2016 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2016 10:34:20 +0300 Subject: Strict is in; lax is out In-Reply-To: References: <156b871c25f-1933-c2@webprd-a12.mail.aol.com> <5b6100c8-e9f2-d1a3-bb2f-71d1339dd5e5@gmail.com> <500b94c5-921f-d2f6-c4f3-544a2be93b25@gmail.com> <26a50e98-49fc-20df-2bfc-0a875f819ff3@gmail.com> Message-ID: <95d3f14d-2bdf-d244-e10a-ebcd21d45971@gmail.com> Really; that's nothing; we used to program with lumps of brown, squidgy stuff we fished out of the open sewers. Of course this probably says a lot about the standard of my coding . . . R. On 24.08.2016 01:40, Devin Asay wrote: >> On Aug 23, 2016, at 3:27 PM, stephen barncard wrote: >> >> Imagine writing a Z80 disassembler in a 6502 assembler. >> On Aug 23, 2016, at 11:49 AM, Colin Holgate wrote: >> >> I did once have to program a machine using toggle switches. But that was as part of a computer course in 1982, long after the machine in question was still in use. > I feel an Old Yorkshiremen sketch coming on. > > Ohhh, we used to DREAM of toggle switches. We used to program on our hands and knees on sharp gravel using nothin? but rocks and sticks we fished out of the open sewers! > > ;-) > > Devin > > > > Devin Asay > Director > Office of Digital Humanities > Brigham Young University > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com Wed Aug 24 03:37:11 2016 From: stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com (stephen barncard) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2016 00:37:11 -0700 Subject: Very OT - Bad pun In-Reply-To: <24e4d15a-46ce-fcec-7406-db7228903a20@gmail.com> References: <677062E1-58F7-48D7-A52E-A37CCF6E7210@jerrydaniels.com> <0E429C81-BBBC-4D3D-8649-7581230F2BDF@jerrydaniels.com> <99980660-7B77-4A4D-906B-ED790D9C2519@appisle.net> <1465669282569-4705678.post@n4.nabble.com> <69AA4C74-4E9C-40DD-A10F-5E69C73619AD@hindu.org> <24e4d15a-46ce-fcec-7406-db7228903a20@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Aug 24, 2016 at 12:32 AM, Richmond wrote: > Maybe you have been pronouncing it ED-IN-BURG, but that is not how > Scots pronounce it . . . > I watch the BBC now and learned. Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA - mixstream.org From blueback09 at gmail.com Wed Aug 24 04:03:51 2016 From: blueback09 at gmail.com (Matt Maier) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2016 11:03:51 +0300 Subject: open stack Message-ID: What's up with this not working? http://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/17375-how-do-i-save-custom-properties-in-a-standalone-application This is a really simple tutorial that I followed, but I get an error at the "open stack" statement. I tried replacing it with this, but even though it doesn't error it also doesn't open the "Main Application" stack. if there is a stack tFileName then open stack tFileName I tried replacing it with this, and the try statement does trigger the catch, but there's nothing in the error variable. put "Main Application.livecode" into tFileName try open stack tFileName catch tError answer tError end try The go command doesn't work either. Both stacks are in the same folder. The open command isn't even in the dictionary, although it is in the online documentation. From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Wed Aug 24 07:06:51 2016 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2016 19:06:51 +0800 Subject: Back to the Garden of Eden In-Reply-To: <2c58667f-bac9-ceba-01d4-073f674b5014@gmail.com> References: <2c58667f-bac9-ceba-01d4-073f674b5014@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 5:37 PM, Richmond wrote: > Quite a few of the chapters in the book now seem fairly redundant: > > Home Stack Author Utilities > > Introduction to External Resources > Well that first one would be replaced with a chapter on how the LC IDE is written in LC so how you can go about customising it to your own needs. The 2nd one would be an introduction to LCB and Widgets. The glossy bits between pages 152 and 153 also needs a major expansion. Add to that a chapter each on Browser, Database and XML and I can't see how you could end up with less pages than Danny's 1144. You've got your work cut out for you. ;-) From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Wed Aug 24 08:03:08 2016 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2016 20:03:08 +0800 Subject: [TOT] Totally Off . . . In-Reply-To: References: <4ac71ea1-e5aa-a8c4-e71f-4c51b7a93b19@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 6:49 PM, Richmond wrote: > The second link connects to stuff that is specifically linked to Macintosh > computers, and > > as a start to writing some sort of a book > about Livecode. > Surely the 6th title in that collection, by Guy Kawaski, should provide easy inspiration: maybe a chapter titled "The LC Use List Curmudgeon" ;-))) From bonnmike at gmail.com Wed Aug 24 08:11:16 2016 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2016 06:11:16 -0600 Subject: open stack In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If you're working in the ide, chances are the defaultfolder is not set to point to the correct place, which would mean you'd need to provide a full path to the stack you want to open, or set the default folder to point to the right place. the line "if there is a stack tFilename then open stack tFilename" would not cause an error. It would either open the stack if it sees it (see the sentence above) or do nothing. If you want to go that route for better information, do this.. if there is a stack tfilename then open stack tfilename else answer information "No such stack" end if Alternatively, when you try to open the stack, check to see whats in "it" and "the result" Often one or the other will provide useful information. On Wed, Aug 24, 2016 at 2:03 AM, Matt Maier wrote: > What's up with this not working? > > http://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/17375-how-do-i-save- > custom-properties-in-a-standalone-application > > This is a really simple tutorial that I followed, but I get an error at the > "open stack" statement. > > I tried replacing it with this, but even though it doesn't error it also > doesn't open the "Main Application" stack. > > if there is a stack tFileName then open stack tFileName > > I tried replacing it with this, and the try statement does trigger the > catch, but there's nothing in the error variable. > > put "Main Application.livecode" into tFileName > try > open stack tFileName > catch tError > answer tError > end try > > The go command doesn't work either. > > Both stacks are in the same folder. > > The open command isn't even in the dictionary, although it is in the online > documentation. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From effendi at wanadoo.fr Wed Aug 24 08:36:25 2016 From: effendi at wanadoo.fr (Francis Nugent Dixon) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2016 14:36:25 +0200 Subject: open stack Message-ID: Hi from Beautiful Britanny, Try replacing words "stack" with "file" ..... There should be no problem opening a liveCode stack with open file Mystackname.liveCode Now, I haven't tried this with a stack, but I never had any problems opening a file (why should suffix "liveCode" be any different ?) Best Regards -Francis PS - I will try this myself, and apologize if it doesn't work :>)) From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Wed Aug 24 08:39:30 2016 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2016 20:39:30 +0800 Subject: Backwards compatibility or sanity? help In-Reply-To: <64670846-5EDA-4049-836F-E33CB4448BAF@appisle.net> References: <1f4d379d-ff51-59c5-260b-036d02cb0308@fourthworld.com> <44EAB54D-0E85-43D0-A555-0FA32292E066@appisle.net> <60AB2082-E443-4D46-82BC-E75DF44F9C9D@mac.com> <64670846-5EDA-4049-836F-E33CB4448BAF@appisle.net> Message-ID: On Sun, Aug 21, 2016 at 7:52 AM, Monte Goulding wrote: > >> On 21 Aug 2016, at 9:38 AM, Randy Hengst wrote: >> >> This doesn?t totally fit with the conversation, and I assume the Team knows this but? SORT assumes that a trailing comma indicates an empty item > > Oh yay?. this behavior persists in LiveCode 8. As does this situation where combine/split doesn't round-trip, in the msg box: put 9 into Array[1] put empty into Array[2] put 7 into Array[3] put empty into Array[4] combine Array using comma put Array & cr into msg split Array using comma put the keys of Array after msg From monte at appisle.net Wed Aug 24 08:50:10 2016 From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2016 22:50:10 +1000 Subject: Backwards compatibility or sanity? help In-Reply-To: References: <1f4d379d-ff51-59c5-260b-036d02cb0308@fourthworld.com> <44EAB54D-0E85-43D0-A555-0FA32292E066@appisle.net> <60AB2082-E443-4D46-82BC-E75DF44F9C9D@mac.com> <64670846-5EDA-4049-836F-E33CB4448BAF@appisle.net> Message-ID: <0083E0B1-35C3-4563-8A85-2B4CC0276423@appisle.net> > On 24 Aug 2016, at 10:39 PM, Kay C Lan wrote: > > As does this situation where combine/split doesn't round-trip That?s a good one! http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18259 From danoldboy at gmail.com Wed Aug 24 09:31:14 2016 From: danoldboy at gmail.com (Dan Brown) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2016 14:31:14 +0100 Subject: blockchain In-Reply-To: References: <1e6bf6b0-d6e0-43a0-8881-7c510a48c3a4@Spark> Message-ID: Four major world banks ( UBS, Deutsche Bank, Santander, and BNY Mellon ) are set to announce the creation of a new blockchain-based digital currency, and are hoping to make it the global standard for settlements. https://news.bitcoin.com/four-banks-create-new-digital-currency/ On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 8:31 PM, David Bovill wrote: > Thanks for the link! > > On 23 August 2016 at 20:00, Jerry Jensen wrote: > >> IEEE is getting interested in blockchain technology. Here?s a basic >> article: >> >> http://theinstitute.ieee.org/technology-topics/computing/ >> getting-linked-to-the-blockchain >> >> .Jerry J >> >> > On Aug 20, 2016, at 2:17 AM, David Bovill wrote: >> > >> > Mike that would be great. I'd like to get together a small group to >> > research together the integration of Livecode with blockchain - starting >> in >> > November. The format would be asynchronous work with some live >> > get-togethers. >> > >> > Involvement does not need to be super-geeky. It will be a research group, >> > so I'll collect links, podcasts and videos and present these within a >> > Livecode environment - so there is a need for media, writing and research >> > skills and we will be working together on a publication within Livecode. >> > This publication will also be online and on the decentralised web. >> > Super-geeks with a knowledge of Javascript and Livecode are also more >> than >> > welcome. >> > >> > If anyone else is interested just email me here or off-list, and I'll >> send >> > out information when the dates are confirmed. >> > >> > On 18 August 2016 at 13:44, Mike Kerner >> wrote: >> > >> >> James, I'm always interested in what other folks are doing, and I'd >> like to >> >> hear more about the setup. David, I'd definitely be interested. >> >> >> >> On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 6:20 AM, David Bovill >> wrote: >> >> >> >>> Yes - I've been interested in Livecode and blockchain for a couple of >> >> years >> >>> now. I've been following Ethereum since the beginning - we tried to >> make >> >> a >> >>> documentary about the project and I went to DevCon 1 in Berlin as the >> >> team >> >>> started it's development. >> >>> >> >>> There is an interesting online Hackathon in November if any Livecoders >> >> are >> >>> interested in taking part / forming a team? >> >>> >> >>> On 18 August 2016 at 01:27, Richard Gaskin > > >> >>> wrote: >> >>> >> >>>> Jerry Daniels wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>>> On Aug 17, 2016, 5:12 PM -0500, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> What is the business benefit for this application to go P2P rather >> >>>>>> than client-server? >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Richard, cost savings, security, privacy. Costs are drastically >> >>>>> reduced without hosting and its (hidden) labor/maintenance. Just >> >>>>> think about the long record of exploitation of hosted SQL data. >> >>>>> Not in the models were discussing here. >> >>>> >> >>>> I like the idea* of P2P for some applications, but with the explosion >> >> of >> >>>> cloud services the client-server model seems to have merit as well. >> >>>> >> >>>> On the one hand, there are the risks of managing (hopefully redundant) >> >>>> server farms. On the other hand there are the risks of having every >> >>> client >> >>>> also be a server, but without a team of professionals hardening and >> >>>> monitoring it. >> >>>> >> >>>> All systems are hackable. Ideally prevention, monitoring, and >> recovery >> >>>> are budgeted for in the business plan with any architecture. >> >>>> >> >>>> I believe there's a role for both client-server and P2P, and federated >> >>>> models as well. Each has its own benefits and tradeoffs; like >> >>> programming >> >>>> languages, there'll always be more because use cases where they can >> add >> >>>> value only grow and diversify. >> >>>> >> >>>> Back to blockchains, from my reading it's becoming clear that the >> >>>> distributed trust is a compelling feature, along with the increased >> >> speed >> >>>> with which transaction ledgers can be conveyed faithfully. Like the >> >>> early >> >>>> days of railroads, networks outside of Bitcoin employ different >> >>> standards, >> >>>> each with its own kinks to work out but worth the effort. Over time it >> >>>> seems likely they'll impact global quality of life as significantly as >> >>> the >> >>>> invention of compound interest. >> >>>> >> >>>> Lots to learn.... >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>>> Richard, Mike...sorry for my butting in here. Feel free to ignore my >> >>>>> interruption. >> >>>> >> >>>> Au contraire, mon ami. Always good to have you around. >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> * I've been paranoid for years, and enjoying Mr. Robot has only made >> >> that >> >>>> worse. :) For the last several years I've run my main laptop and >> >>>> workstation with no open ports (easy to do with Ubuntu since it ships >> >>> that >> >>>> way; took some work to harden my Mac). This has meant that as eagerly >> >> as >> >>> I >> >>>> used to visit openp2p.com and read the other things, these days P2P >> is >> >>> an >> >>>> interesting set of ideas but not something I focus on; all >> >> collaboration >> >>>> systems here use only outbound connections. >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> -- >> >>>> Richard Gaskin >> >>>> Fourth World Systems >> >>>> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web >> >>>> ____________________________________________________________________ >> >>>> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com >> >>>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> use-livecode mailing list >> >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> >>>> subscription preferences: >> >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >>>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> use-livecode mailing list >> >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> >>> subscription preferences: >> >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >> >> On the second day, God created the oceans. >> >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >> >> and did a little diving. >> >> And God said, "This is good." >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> use-livecode mailing list >> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> >> subscription preferences: >> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> > use-livecode mailing list >> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Wed Aug 24 09:44:00 2016 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2016 21:44:00 +0800 Subject: Very OT - Bad pun In-Reply-To: <24e4d15a-46ce-fcec-7406-db7228903a20@gmail.com> References: <677062E1-58F7-48D7-A52E-A37CCF6E7210@jerrydaniels.com> <0E429C81-BBBC-4D3D-8649-7581230F2BDF@jerrydaniels.com> <99980660-7B77-4A4D-906B-ED790D9C2519@appisle.net> <1465669282569-4705678.post@n4.nabble.com> <69AA4C74-4E9C-40DD-A10F-5E69C73619AD@hindu.org> <24e4d15a-46ce-fcec-7406-db7228903a20@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Aug 24, 2016 at 3:32 PM, Richmond wrote: > Maybe you have been pronouncing it ED-IN-BURG, but that is not how > Scots pronounce it . . . > > So puns are out, Well in my neck of the woods it's pronounced 'nbra So the LC Ali-Fraser swedge would be 'The Spar in the End Bar' From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Wed Aug 24 09:46:34 2016 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2016 09:46:34 -0400 Subject: blockchain In-Reply-To: References: <1e6bf6b0-d6e0-43a0-8881-7c510a48c3a4@Spark> Message-ID: And there goes the ACH settlement process and the cut that central banks take from currency swaps. Welcome to a new era. On Wed, Aug 24, 2016 at 9:31 AM, Dan Brown wrote: > Four major world banks ( UBS, Deutsche Bank, Santander, and BNY Mellon > ) are set to announce the creation of a new blockchain-based digital > currency, and are hoping to make it the global standard for > settlements. > > https://news.bitcoin.com/four-banks-create-new-digital-currency/ > > > > On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 8:31 PM, David Bovill wrote: > > Thanks for the link! > > > > On 23 August 2016 at 20:00, Jerry Jensen wrote: > > > >> IEEE is getting interested in blockchain technology. Here?s a basic > >> article: > >> > >> http://theinstitute.ieee.org/technology-topics/computing/ > >> getting-linked-to-the-blockchain > >> > >> .Jerry J > >> > >> > On Aug 20, 2016, at 2:17 AM, David Bovill > wrote: > >> > > >> > Mike that would be great. I'd like to get together a small group to > >> > research together the integration of Livecode with blockchain - > starting > >> in > >> > November. The format would be asynchronous work with some live > >> > get-togethers. > >> > > >> > Involvement does not need to be super-geeky. It will be a research > group, > >> > so I'll collect links, podcasts and videos and present these within a > >> > Livecode environment - so there is a need for media, writing and > research > >> > skills and we will be working together on a publication within > Livecode. > >> > This publication will also be online and on the decentralised web. > >> > Super-geeks with a knowledge of Javascript and Livecode are also more > >> than > >> > welcome. > >> > > >> > If anyone else is interested just email me here or off-list, and I'll > >> send > >> > out information when the dates are confirmed. > >> > > >> > On 18 August 2016 at 13:44, Mike Kerner > >> wrote: > >> > > >> >> James, I'm always interested in what other folks are doing, and I'd > >> like to > >> >> hear more about the setup. David, I'd definitely be interested. > >> >> > >> >> On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 6:20 AM, David Bovill > >> wrote: > >> >> > >> >>> Yes - I've been interested in Livecode and blockchain for a couple > of > >> >> years > >> >>> now. I've been following Ethereum since the beginning - we tried to > >> make > >> >> a > >> >>> documentary about the project and I went to DevCon 1 in Berlin as > the > >> >> team > >> >>> started it's development. > >> >>> > >> >>> There is an interesting online Hackathon in November if any > Livecoders > >> >> are > >> >>> interested in taking part / forming a team? > >> >>> > >> >>> On 18 August 2016 at 01:27, Richard Gaskin < > ambassador at fourthworld.com > >> > > >> >>> wrote: > >> >>> > >> >>>> Jerry Daniels wrote: > >> >>>> > >> >>>>> On Aug 17, 2016, 5:12 PM -0500, Richard Gaskin wrote: > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> What is the business benefit for this application to go P2P > rather > >> >>>>>> than client-server? > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> Richard, cost savings, security, privacy. Costs are drastically > >> >>>>> reduced without hosting and its (hidden) labor/maintenance. Just > >> >>>>> think about the long record of exploitation of hosted SQL data. > >> >>>>> Not in the models were discussing here. > >> >>>> > >> >>>> I like the idea* of P2P for some applications, but with the > explosion > >> >> of > >> >>>> cloud services the client-server model seems to have merit as well. > >> >>>> > >> >>>> On the one hand, there are the risks of managing (hopefully > redundant) > >> >>>> server farms. On the other hand there are the risks of having > every > >> >>> client > >> >>>> also be a server, but without a team of professionals hardening and > >> >>>> monitoring it. > >> >>>> > >> >>>> All systems are hackable. Ideally prevention, monitoring, and > >> recovery > >> >>>> are budgeted for in the business plan with any architecture. > >> >>>> > >> >>>> I believe there's a role for both client-server and P2P, and > federated > >> >>>> models as well. Each has its own benefits and tradeoffs; like > >> >>> programming > >> >>>> languages, there'll always be more because use cases where they can > >> add > >> >>>> value only grow and diversify. > >> >>>> > >> >>>> Back to blockchains, from my reading it's becoming clear that the > >> >>>> distributed trust is a compelling feature, along with the increased > >> >> speed > >> >>>> with which transaction ledgers can be conveyed faithfully. Like > the > >> >>> early > >> >>>> days of railroads, networks outside of Bitcoin employ different > >> >>> standards, > >> >>>> each with its own kinks to work out but worth the effort. Over > time it > >> >>>> seems likely they'll impact global quality of life as > significantly as > >> >>> the > >> >>>> invention of compound interest. > >> >>>> > >> >>>> Lots to learn.... > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>>> Richard, Mike...sorry for my butting in here. Feel free to ignore > my > >> >>>>> interruption. > >> >>>> > >> >>>> Au contraire, mon ami. Always good to have you around. > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> * I've been paranoid for years, and enjoying Mr. Robot has only > made > >> >> that > >> >>>> worse. :) For the last several years I've run my main laptop and > >> >>>> workstation with no open ports (easy to do with Ubuntu since it > ships > >> >>> that > >> >>>> way; took some work to harden my Mac). This has meant that as > eagerly > >> >> as > >> >>> I > >> >>>> used to visit openp2p.com and read the other things, these days > P2P > >> is > >> >>> an > >> >>>> interesting set of ideas but not something I focus on; all > >> >> collaboration > >> >>>> systems here use only outbound connections. > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> -- > >> >>>> Richard Gaskin > >> >>>> Fourth World Systems > >> >>>> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the > Web > >> >>>> ____________________________________________________________ > ________ > >> >>>> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com > http://www.FourthWorld.com > >> >>>> > >> >>>> _______________________________________________ > >> >>>> use-livecode mailing list > >> >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> >>>> subscription preferences: > >> >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> >>>> > >> >>> _______________________________________________ > >> >>> use-livecode mailing list > >> >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> >>> subscription preferences: > >> >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> >>> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> -- > >> >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > >> >> On the second day, God created the oceans. > >> >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > >> >> and did a little diving. > >> >> And God said, "This is good." > >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> use-livecode mailing list > >> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> >> subscription preferences: > >> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > use-livecode mailing list > >> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Wed Aug 24 09:53:01 2016 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2016 09:53:01 -0400 Subject: Strict is in; lax is out In-Reply-To: <95d3f14d-2bdf-d244-e10a-ebcd21d45971@gmail.com> References: <156b871c25f-1933-c2@webprd-a12.mail.aol.com> <5b6100c8-e9f2-d1a3-bb2f-71d1339dd5e5@gmail.com> <500b94c5-921f-d2f6-c4f3-544a2be93b25@gmail.com> <26a50e98-49fc-20df-2bfc-0a875f819ff3@gmail.com> <95d3f14d-2bdf-d244-e10a-ebcd21d45971@gmail.com> Message-ID: It's interesting that a hit game "Human Resource Machine" is essentially teaching players to program in a type of assembly language. On Wed, Aug 24, 2016 at 3:34 AM, Richmond wrote: > Really; that's nothing; we used to program with lumps of brown, squidgy > stuff we fished > out of the open sewers. > > Of course this probably says a lot about the standard of my coding . . . > > R. > > > On 24.08.2016 01:40, Devin Asay wrote: > >> On Aug 23, 2016, at 3:27 PM, stephen barncard < >>> stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com> wrote: >>> >>> Imagine writing a Z80 disassembler in a 6502 assembler. >>> On Aug 23, 2016, at 11:49 AM, Colin Holgate >>> wrote: >>> >>> I did once have to program a machine using toggle switches. But that was >>> as part of a computer course in 1982, long after the machine in question >>> was still in use. >>> >> I feel an Old Yorkshiremen sketch coming on. >> >> Ohhh, we used to DREAM of toggle switches. We used to program on our >> hands and knees on sharp gravel using nothin? but rocks and sticks we >> fished out of the open sewers! >> >> ;-) >> >> Devin >> >> >> >> Devin Asay >> Director >> Office of Digital Humanities >> Brigham Young University >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Aug 24 13:12:33 2016 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2016 20:12:33 +0300 Subject: Back to the Garden of Eden In-Reply-To: References: <2c58667f-bac9-ceba-01d4-073f674b5014@gmail.com> Message-ID: <9cc3fe64-e2be-36e4-ab91-166a05b5df79@gmail.com> On 24.08.2016 14:06, Kay C Lan wrote: > On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 5:37 PM, Richmond wrote: >> Quite a few of the chapters in the book now seem fairly redundant: >> >> Home Stack Author Utilities >> >> Introduction to External Resources >> > Well that first one would be replaced with a chapter on how the LC IDE > is written in LC so how you can go about customising it to your own > needs. The 2nd one would be an introduction to LCB and Widgets. The > glossy bits between pages 152 and 153 also needs a major expansion. > Add to that a chapter each on Browser, Database and XML and I can't > see how you could end up with less pages than Danny's 1144. > > You've got your work cut out for you. ;-) Not really because I have no ambitions to write "The Complete Livecode Handbook". What I do have ambitions to write are: 1. A guide for teachers on how to use Livecode as a tool to author (RAD) delivery tools for content delivery and reinforcement. 2. A book to help teacher teach an entry-level programming course to Primary-level children. Neither of which will extend to LCB or widgets. If you are looking for a new Danny Goodman look elsewhere. Richmond. From blueback09 at gmail.com Wed Aug 24 13:53:59 2016 From: blueback09 at gmail.com (Matt Maier) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2016 20:53:59 +0300 Subject: open stack In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ah, yes, thank you. It looks like the defaultFolder must have been wrong. Manually setting it to the same folder as the stack works. I'm getting deja vu...like I complained about how the error message should mention that it failed because it couldn't find the file in the folder where it looked, instead of just "there was an error." Anywho, I'm trying to add a dictionary entry for "open stack" with an example of setting the defaultFolder first. On Wed, Aug 24, 2016 at 3:11 PM, Mike Bonner wrote: > If you're working in the ide, chances are the defaultfolder is not set to > point to the correct place, which would mean you'd need to provide a full > path to the stack you want to open, or set the default folder to point to > the right place. > > the line "if there is a stack tFilename then open stack tFilename" would > not cause an error. It would either open the stack if it sees it (see the > sentence above) or do nothing. If you want to go that route for better > information, do this.. > > if there is a stack tfilename then > open stack tfilename > else > answer information "No such stack" > end if > > Alternatively, when you try to open the stack, check to see whats in "it" > and "the result" Often one or the other will provide useful information. > > On Wed, Aug 24, 2016 at 2:03 AM, Matt Maier wrote: > > > What's up with this not working? > > > > http://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/17375-how-do-i-save- > > custom-properties-in-a-standalone-application > > > > This is a really simple tutorial that I followed, but I get an error at > the > > "open stack" statement. > > > > I tried replacing it with this, but even though it doesn't error it also > > doesn't open the "Main Application" stack. > > > > if there is a stack tFileName then open stack tFileName > > > > I tried replacing it with this, and the try statement does trigger the > > catch, but there's nothing in the error variable. > > > > put "Main Application.livecode" into tFileName > > try > > open stack tFileName > > catch tError > > answer tError > > end try > > > > The go command doesn't work either. > > > > Both stacks are in the same folder. > > > > The open command isn't even in the dictionary, although it is in the > online > > documentation. > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From monte at appisle.net Wed Aug 24 23:23:50 2016 From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 13:23:50 +1000 Subject: Performance issues LC8 versus earlier versions. In-Reply-To: <5220FCBA-1944-4D1C-94B6-4D41938BA192@appisle.net> References: <93fefe2d-4c4d-3245-6e6c-1183e0b09904@fourthworld.com> <159121c6-71cf-f752-769a-115904905ab8@tweedly.net> <5220FCBA-1944-4D1C-94B6-4D41938BA192@appisle.net> Message-ID: <71BD486F-B5CB-482F-B11A-9D3B72911CF1@appisle.net> > On 24 Aug 2016, at 9:50 AM, Monte Goulding wrote: > > >> On 24 Aug 2016, at 9:06 AM, Monte Goulding > wrote: >> >> After reviewing the code path I see that there is an attempt made to parse the binary value into a number to try and compare numerically before doing the binary comparison. It may be we can change the order here and if both left and right are binary just compare the memory first. > > I?ve made this patch https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/4409 to get the ball rolling on improving the performance here. However, it will currently break any number comparisons where the strings are different but the numbers are the same such as octal to decimal. It only breaks them if they are both currently in binary strings. It is possible I think to work out if both sides are binary and of a size that they are clearly not numbers (or at least LC can?t represent them as numbers) then do a binary comparison there. Then try and covert to numbers and then check again if they are binary. Of course I may be worried over nothing because people should be decoding binary strings before they try and use them as numbers anyway... > > Just moving the code as I did above brought my test of your code on an 8.5 MB file down from 60ms to 5ms. Hi Alex To avoid breaking the behavior of octal to decimal number comparison if they both happen to be in a binary string at the time of comparison I didn?t think it was a good plan to leave that binary comparison check above the number check? however, I think I?ve come up with a better solution anyway. When converting binary strings to numbers the engine first encodes it as native encoded string then parses the bytes to work out if they are a valid number. What I?ve done is first check if the binary data is longer than can be converted to a number and then stop trying to convert it to a number there. It is about 10 times faster for your use case as far as I can tell. Unfortunately it won?t make 8.1.0. Cheers Monte From alex at tweedly.net Thu Aug 25 03:49:06 2016 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 08:49:06 +0100 Subject: Performance issues LC8 versus earlier versions. In-Reply-To: <71BD486F-B5CB-482F-B11A-9D3B72911CF1@appisle.net> References: <93fefe2d-4c4d-3245-6e6c-1183e0b09904@fourthworld.com> <159121c6-71cf-f752-769a-115904905ab8@tweedly.net> <5220FCBA-1944-4D1C-94B6-4D41938BA192@appisle.net> <71BD486F-B5CB-482F-B11A-9D3B72911CF1@appisle.net> Message-ID: <70483061-81da-191d-ba5f-facdd55827b1@tweedly.net> On 25/08/2016 04:23, Monte Goulding wrote: > Hi Alex > > To avoid breaking the behavior of octal to decimal number comparison if they both happen to be in a binary string at the time of comparison I didn?t think it was a good plan to leave that binary comparison check above the number check? however, I think I?ve come up with a better solution anyway. When converting binary strings to numbers the engine first encodes it as native encoded string then parses the bytes to work out if they are a valid number. What I?ve done is first check if the binary data is longer than can be converted to a number and then stop trying to convert it to a number there. It is about 10 times faster for your use case as far as I can tell. Unfortunately it won?t make 8.1.0. > > That is wonderful - thanks Monte. btw - I opened a bug report to keep track of it, and so you'd have somewhere to hang the change on to - 18254 Thanks again Alex. From panos.merakos at livecode.com Thu Aug 25 08:58:17 2016 From: panos.merakos at livecode.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 13:58:17 +0100 Subject: [ ANN ] Release 8.1.0 RC-1 Message-ID: Dear list members, We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 8.1.0 RC-1. Getting the Release =================== You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ or via the automatic updater. Release Contents ================ LiveCode 8.1.0 RC-1 contains 85 bug fixes and new features since the LiveCode 8.1.0 DP3 release. Moreover, this release contains many documentation updates and engine fixes contributed by Devin Asay, Jos? Antonio Meira da Rocha, Charles Warwick, msiskin, Skipis and beda123. Thank you! The full release notes are available from: http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/8_1_0/LiveCodeNotes-8_1_0_rc_1.pdf Feedback ======== Please report any bugs encountered on our Bugzilla at http://quality.livecode.com/ We have a forum available for discussing LiveCode Builder at http://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=93 Have fun! The LiveCode Team -- From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Thu Aug 25 09:25:22 2016 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 09:25:22 -0400 Subject: [ ANN ] Release 8.1.0 RC-1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I am really excited about 8.1. I've been working with it for a while. There are several nifty things in here. On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 8:58 AM, panagiotis merakos < panos.merakos at livecode.com> wrote: > Dear list members, > > We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 8.1.0 RC-1. > > > Getting the Release > =================== > You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ or via > the automatic updater. > > > Release Contents > ================ > LiveCode 8.1.0 RC-1 contains 85 bug fixes and new features since the > LiveCode 8.1.0 DP3 release. Moreover, this release contains many > documentation updates and engine fixes contributed by Devin Asay, Jos? > Antonio Meira da Rocha, Charles Warwick, msiskin, Skipis and beda123. Thank > you! > > The full release notes are available from: > http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/8_1_0/LiveCodeNotes-8_1_0_rc_1.pdf > > > Feedback > ======== > Please report any bugs encountered on our Bugzilla at > http://quality.livecode.com/ > > We have a forum available for discussing LiveCode Builder at > http://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=93 > > > Have fun! > > The LiveCode Team > -- > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From merakosp at gmail.com Thu Aug 25 10:01:59 2016 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 15:01:59 +0100 Subject: [ ANN ] Release 8.1.0 RC-1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Nice to hear that, Mike. The 8.1 RC1 release is great IMO, because apart from 80+ bug fixes, it contains a lot of enhancement requests, including keyboard navigation in the Project Browser, script colorization in the msg box and some more: https://github.com/livecode/livecode-ide/pulls?q=is%3Apr+label%3Aenhancement+milestone%3A8.1.0-rc-1+is%3Aclosed https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pulls?q=is%3Apr+label%3Aenhancement+milestone%3A8.1.0-rc-1+is%3Aclosed Best, Panos -- On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 2:25 PM, Mike Kerner wrote: > I am really excited about 8.1. I've been working with it for a while. > There are several nifty things in here. > > On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 8:58 AM, panagiotis merakos < > panos.merakos at livecode.com> wrote: > > > Dear list members, > > > > We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 8.1.0 RC-1. > > > > > > Getting the Release > > =================== > > You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ or > via > > the automatic updater. > > > > > > Release Contents > > ================ > > LiveCode 8.1.0 RC-1 contains 85 bug fixes and new features since the > > LiveCode 8.1.0 DP3 release. Moreover, this release contains many > > documentation updates and engine fixes contributed by Devin Asay, Jos? > > Antonio Meira da Rocha, Charles Warwick, msiskin, Skipis and beda123. > Thank > > you! > > > > The full release notes are available from: > > http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/8_1_0/LiveCodeNotes- > 8_1_0_rc_1.pdf > > > > > > Feedback > > ======== > > Please report any bugs encountered on our Bugzilla at > > http://quality.livecode.com/ > > > > We have a forum available for discussing LiveCode Builder at > > http://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=93 > > > > > > Have fun! > > > > The LiveCode Team > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Thu Aug 25 11:25:44 2016 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 15:25:44 +0000 Subject: Very OT - Bad pun In-Reply-To: References: <677062E1-58F7-48D7-A52E-A37CCF6E7210@jerrydaniels.com> <0E429C81-BBBC-4D3D-8649-7581230F2BDF@jerrydaniels.com> <99980660-7B77-4A4D-906B-ED790D9C2519@appisle.net> <1465669282569-4705678.post@n4.nabble.com> <69AA4C74-4E9C-40DD-A10F-5E69C73619AD@hindu.org> Message-ID: <4E3B0BCA-2908-41D7-8FA5-DDF0DA95E937@iotecdigital.com> Not even the French could pronounce a word so different from how it is spelled. (I'm half French so I can make fun of us). Bob S > On Aug 23, 2016, at 14:29 , stephen barncard wrote: > > On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 12:51 PM, Richmond > wrote: > >> Well, as most North Americans seem to pronounce "Edinburgh" as "Edinbro" . >> . . > > > I pronounced it ED-IN-BURG for years > > Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA - > mixstream.org > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dvglasgow at gmail.com Thu Aug 25 11:28:32 2016 From: dvglasgow at gmail.com (David V Glasgow) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 16:28:32 +0100 Subject: Very OT - Bad pun In-Reply-To: <4E3B0BCA-2908-41D7-8FA5-DDF0DA95E937@iotecdigital.com> References: <677062E1-58F7-48D7-A52E-A37CCF6E7210@jerrydaniels.com> <0E429C81-BBBC-4D3D-8649-7581230F2BDF@jerrydaniels.com> <99980660-7B77-4A4D-906B-ED790D9C2519@appisle.net> <1465669282569-4705678.post@n4.nabble.com> <69AA4C74-4E9C-40DD-A10F-5E69C73619AD@hindu.org> <4E3B0BCA-2908-41D7-8FA5-DDF0DA95E937@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <17D5B7DA-CC3B-4549-9B6D-1DC5CDA2CE4E@gmail.com> I use to live in Leicestershire ? > On 25 Aug 2016, at 4:25 pm, Bob Sneidar wrote: > > Not even the French could pronounce a word so different from how it is spelled. (I'm half French so I can make fun of us). > > Bob S > > >> On Aug 23, 2016, at 14:29 , stephen barncard wrote: >> >> On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 12:51 PM, Richmond >> wrote: >> >>> Well, as most North Americans seem to pronounce "Edinburgh" as "Edinbro" . >>> . . >> >> >> I pronounced it ED-IN-BURG for years >> >> Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA - >> mixstream.org >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From colinholgate at gmail.com Thu Aug 25 11:33:21 2016 From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 08:33:21 -0700 Subject: Very OT - Bad pun In-Reply-To: <17D5B7DA-CC3B-4549-9B6D-1DC5CDA2CE4E@gmail.com> References: <677062E1-58F7-48D7-A52E-A37CCF6E7210@jerrydaniels.com> <0E429C81-BBBC-4D3D-8649-7581230F2BDF@jerrydaniels.com> <99980660-7B77-4A4D-906B-ED790D9C2519@appisle.net> <1465669282569-4705678.post@n4.nabble.com> <69AA4C74-4E9C-40DD-A10F-5E69C73619AD@hindu.org> <4E3B0BCA-2908-41D7-8FA5-DDF0DA95E937@iotecdigital.com> <17D5B7DA-CC3B-4549-9B6D-1DC5CDA2CE4E@gmail.com> Message-ID: Not as bad as when I lived in Worcestershire. > On Aug 25, 2016, at 8:28 AM, David V Glasgow wrote: > > I use to live in Leicestershire ? > > >> On 25 Aug 2016, at 4:25 pm, Bob Sneidar wrote: >> >> Not even the French could pronounce a word so different from how it is spelled. (I'm half French so I can make fun of us). >> >> Bob S >> >> >>> On Aug 23, 2016, at 14:29 , stephen barncard wrote: >>> >>> On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 12:51 PM, Richmond >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Well, as most North Americans seem to pronounce "Edinburgh" as "Edinbro" . >>>> . . >>> >>> >>> I pronounced it ED-IN-BURG for years >>> >>> Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA - >>> mixstream.org >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From tore.nilsen at me.com Thu Aug 25 11:34:23 2016 From: tore.nilsen at me.com (Tore Nilsen) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 17:34:23 +0200 Subject: Very OT - Bad pun In-Reply-To: <17D5B7DA-CC3B-4549-9B6D-1DC5CDA2CE4E@gmail.com> References: <677062E1-58F7-48D7-A52E-A37CCF6E7210@jerrydaniels.com> <0E429C81-BBBC-4D3D-8649-7581230F2BDF@jerrydaniels.com> <99980660-7B77-4A4D-906B-ED790D9C2519@appisle.net> <1465669282569-4705678.post@n4.nabble.com> <69AA4C74-4E9C-40DD-A10F-5E69C73619AD@hindu.org> <4E3B0BCA-2908-41D7-8FA5-DDF0DA95E937@iotecdigital.com> <17D5B7DA-CC3B-4549-9B6D-1DC5CDA2CE4E@gmail.com> Message-ID: I guess Gloucestershire is only marginally better? Tore > 25. aug. 2016 kl. 17.28 skrev David V Glasgow : > > I use to live in Leicestershire ? > > >> On 25 Aug 2016, at 4:25 pm, Bob Sneidar wrote: >> >> Not even the French could pronounce a word so different from how it is spelled. (I'm half French so I can make fun of us). >> >> Bob S >> >> >>> On Aug 23, 2016, at 14:29 , stephen barncard wrote: >>> >>> On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 12:51 PM, Richmond >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Well, as most North Americans seem to pronounce "Edinburgh" as "Edinbro" . >>>> . . >>> >>> >>> I pronounced it ED-IN-BURG for years >>> >>> Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA - >>> mixstream.org >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Thu Aug 25 11:34:49 2016 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 11:34:49 -0400 Subject: Atom Issues In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Here is a partial fix for the autocomplete issues. Settings->Packages->Autocomplete-plus Then find "Keymap for confirming a suggestion" and change it to tab, and uncheck "Automatically Confirm Single Suggestion" On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 12:47 PM, Matt Maier wrote: > I keep getting a red error popup every time I finish writing a word. It > cites the autocomplete-plus package. No idea how to get it to stop covering > half the window in red error messages. > > On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 6:59 PM, Mike Kerner > wrote: > > > I even run into this situation with enter when typing "then" for an "if > > then". > > > > On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 11:42 AM, Mike Kerner > > > wrote: > > > > > Here's another one: Once atom memorizes a token (say, for example one > > > that's a typo, perhaps with capitalization that's wrong, because > > > capitalization matters in LCB), how do you get rid of the wrong token? > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 11:42 AM, Mike Kerner < > MikeKerner at roadrunner.com > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > >> I'm not hitting Enter because I want to accept the suggestion. I'm > > >> hitting Enter because I want a CR. So Enter is more like "ignore the > > >> suggestion and give me a CR" > > >> > > >> On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 11:39 AM, Colin Holgate < > colinholgate at gmail.com > > > > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >>> That sounds like the nature of auto complete. You could work around > the > > >>> issue by using Tab to do the completing. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > On Aug 23, 2016, at 8:36 AM, Mike Kerner < > MikeKerner at roadrunner.com> > > >>> wrote: > > >>> > > > >>> > Does anyone have any issues using Atom that they want to share? I > > >>> have one > > >>> > that is biting me frequently: If Atom is trying to suggest a > token, > > >>> and I > > >>> > hit CR, I don't get a CR. If I'm not watching, I can wind up with > > >>> several > > >>> > lines all appended together. Instead of having to do cmd-CR to > get a > > >>> CR, > > >>> > I'd kind of like CR do to what it normally does in every other app > I > > >>> use. > > >>> > > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > >>> use-livecode mailing list > > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > >>> subscription preferences: > > >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > >>> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > >> On the second day, God created the oceans. > > >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > >> and did a little diving. > > >> And God said, "This is good." > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > > and did a little diving. > > > And God said, "This is good." > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > and did a little diving. > > And God said, "This is good." > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From mark at canelasoftware.com Thu Aug 25 11:56:03 2016 From: mark at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 08:56:03 -0700 Subject: [ ANN ] Release 8.1.0 RC-1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > On Aug 25, 2016, at 5:58 AM, panagiotis merakos wrote: > > Dear list members, > > We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 8.1.0 RC-1. Thanks! This is wonderful. Best regards, Mark Talluto livecloud.io canelasoftware.com From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Thu Aug 25 12:14:34 2016 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 19:14:34 +0300 Subject: Very OT - Bad pun In-Reply-To: References: <677062E1-58F7-48D7-A52E-A37CCF6E7210@jerrydaniels.com> <0E429C81-BBBC-4D3D-8649-7581230F2BDF@jerrydaniels.com> <99980660-7B77-4A4D-906B-ED790D9C2519@appisle.net> <1465669282569-4705678.post@n4.nabble.com> <69AA4C74-4E9C-40DD-A10F-5E69C73619AD@hindu.org> <4E3B0BCA-2908-41D7-8FA5-DDF0DA95E937@iotecdigital.com> <17D5B7DA-CC3B-4549-9B6D-1DC5CDA2CE4E@gmail.com> Message-ID: I once knew a bloke whose family name was Cholmondley-Featherstonehaugh, which was pronounced: 'chumley - fanshawe'. Mind you with a name as posh as that one would have to be a bit careful if one described him as a 'bloke'. R. On 25.08.2016 18:33, Colin Holgate wrote: > Not as bad as when I lived in Worcestershire. > > >> On Aug 25, 2016, at 8:28 AM, David V Glasgow wrote: >> >> I use to live in Leicestershire ? >> >> >>> On 25 Aug 2016, at 4:25 pm, Bob Sneidar wrote: >>> >>> Not even the French could pronounce a word so different from how it is spelled. (I'm half French so I can make fun of us). >>> >>> Bob S >>> >>> >>>> On Aug 23, 2016, at 14:29 , stephen barncard wrote: >>>> >>>> On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 12:51 PM, Richmond >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Well, as most North Americans seem to pronounce "Edinburgh" as "Edinbro" . >>>>> . . >>>> >>>> I pronounced it ED-IN-BURG for years >>>> >>>> Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA - >>>> mixstream.org >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Thu Aug 25 12:15:32 2016 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 12:15:32 -0400 Subject: [ ANN ] Release 8.1.0 RC-1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hopefully, soon, we'll get script color printing back, too. 8 is On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 10:01 AM, panagiotis merakos wrote: > Nice to hear that, Mike. The 8.1 RC1 release is great IMO, because apart > from 80+ bug fixes, it contains a lot of enhancement requests, including > keyboard navigation in the Project Browser, script colorization in the msg > box and some more: > > https://github.com/livecode/livecode-ide/pulls?q=is%3Apr+ > label%3Aenhancement+milestone%3A8.1.0-rc-1+is%3Aclosed > > https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pulls?q=is%3Apr+ > label%3Aenhancement+milestone%3A8.1.0-rc-1+is%3Aclosed > > Best, > Panos > -- > > > On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 2:25 PM, Mike Kerner > wrote: > > > I am really excited about 8.1. I've been working with it for a while. > > There are several nifty things in here. > > > > On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 8:58 AM, panagiotis merakos < > > panos.merakos at livecode.com> wrote: > > > > > Dear list members, > > > > > > We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 8.1.0 RC-1. > > > > > > > > > Getting the Release > > > =================== > > > You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ or > > via > > > the automatic updater. > > > > > > > > > Release Contents > > > ================ > > > LiveCode 8.1.0 RC-1 contains 85 bug fixes and new features since the > > > LiveCode 8.1.0 DP3 release. Moreover, this release contains many > > > documentation updates and engine fixes contributed by Devin Asay, Jos? > > > Antonio Meira da Rocha, Charles Warwick, msiskin, Skipis and beda123. > > Thank > > > you! > > > > > > The full release notes are available from: > > > http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/8_1_0/LiveCodeNotes- > > 8_1_0_rc_1.pdf > > > > > > > > > Feedback > > > ======== > > > Please report any bugs encountered on our Bugzilla at > > > http://quality.livecode.com/ > > > > > > We have a forum available for discussing LiveCode Builder at > > > http://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=93 > > > > > > > > > Have fun! > > > > > > The LiveCode Team > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > > subscription preferences: > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > > > > > -- > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > and did a little diving. > > And God said, "This is good." > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From bogdanoff at me.com Thu Aug 25 12:36:00 2016 From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 09:36:00 -0700 Subject: [ ANN ] Release 8.1.0 RC-1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: From the release notes: "On Windows, the default value of the global dontUseQt and dontUseQtEffects properties has changed from true to false. This means that by default players created on Windows will use the DirectShow API for multimedia playback.? The second sentence seems to contradict the first? On OSX, QuickTime is unable to be supported in 64 bit builds the default value of the global dontUseQT and dontUseQTEffects properties changed in version 6.7; it is true on OS X version 10.8 and up, or on all versions of OS X if the engine is 64 bit. This means that any player object created will use the AVFoundation API for multimedia playback. I can?t seem to figure out what the first sentence is saying. :( I would like to! Peter Bogdanoff On Aug 25, 2016, at 5:58 AM, panagiotis merakos wrote: > Dear list members, > > We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 8.1.0 RC-1. > From blueback09 at gmail.com Thu Aug 25 12:46:20 2016 From: blueback09 at gmail.com (Matt Maier) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 19:46:20 +0300 Subject: Atom Issues In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks, but that didn't change anything. On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 6:34 PM, Mike Kerner wrote: > Here is a partial fix for the autocomplete issues. > Settings->Packages->Autocomplete-plus Then find "Keymap for confirming a > suggestion" and change it to tab, and uncheck "Automatically Confirm Single > Suggestion" > > On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 12:47 PM, Matt Maier wrote: > > > I keep getting a red error popup every time I finish writing a word. It > > cites the autocomplete-plus package. No idea how to get it to stop > covering > > half the window in red error messages. > > > > On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 6:59 PM, Mike Kerner > > wrote: > > > > > I even run into this situation with enter when typing "then" for an "if > > > then". > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 11:42 AM, Mike Kerner < > MikeKerner at roadrunner.com > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Here's another one: Once atom memorizes a token (say, for example > one > > > > that's a typo, perhaps with capitalization that's wrong, because > > > > capitalization matters in LCB), how do you get rid of the wrong > token? > > > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 11:42 AM, Mike Kerner < > > MikeKerner at roadrunner.com > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > >> I'm not hitting Enter because I want to accept the suggestion. I'm > > > >> hitting Enter because I want a CR. So Enter is more like "ignore > the > > > >> suggestion and give me a CR" > > > >> > > > >> On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 11:39 AM, Colin Holgate < > > colinholgate at gmail.com > > > > > > > >> wrote: > > > >> > > > >>> That sounds like the nature of auto complete. You could work around > > the > > > >>> issue by using Tab to do the completing. > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > On Aug 23, 2016, at 8:36 AM, Mike Kerner < > > MikeKerner at roadrunner.com> > > > >>> wrote: > > > >>> > > > > >>> > Does anyone have any issues using Atom that they want to share? > I > > > >>> have one > > > >>> > that is biting me frequently: If Atom is trying to suggest a > > token, > > > >>> and I > > > >>> > hit CR, I don't get a CR. If I'm not watching, I can wind up > with > > > >>> several > > > >>> > lines all appended together. Instead of having to do cmd-CR to > > get a > > > >>> CR, > > > >>> > I'd kind of like CR do to what it normally does in every other > app > > I > > > >>> use. > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > > >>> use-livecode mailing list > > > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > > >>> subscription preferences: > > > >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > >>> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> -- > > > >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > > >> On the second day, God created the oceans. > > > >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > > >> and did a little diving. > > > >> And God said, "This is good." > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > > > and did a little diving. > > > > And God said, "This is good." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > > and did a little diving. > > > And God said, "This is good." > > > _______________________________________________ > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > > subscription preferences: > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From merakosp at gmail.com Thu Aug 25 12:52:21 2016 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 17:52:21 +0100 Subject: [ ANN ] Release 8.1.0 RC-1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: @Peter: You are right, this should read: "On Windows, the default value of the global dontUseQt and dontUseQtEffects properties has changed **from false to true**. Regarding OSX: - If OS X version >= 10.8 then dontUseQT=true - If LC engine == 64 bit then dontUseQT=true On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 5:36 PM, Peter Bogdanoff wrote: > > From the release notes: > > "On Windows, the default value of the global dontUseQt and > dontUseQtEffects properties has changed from true to false. This means that > by default players created on Windows will use the DirectShow API for > multimedia playback.? > > The second sentence seems to contradict the first? > > On OSX, QuickTime is unable to be supported in 64 bit builds the default > value of the global dontUseQT and dontUseQTEffects properties changed in > version 6.7; it is true on OS X version 10.8 and up, or on all versions of > OS X if the engine is 64 bit. This means that any player object created > will use the AVFoundation API for multimedia playback. > > I can?t seem to figure out what the first sentence is saying. :( I would > like to! > > Peter Bogdanoff > > > On Aug 25, 2016, at 5:58 AM, panagiotis merakos < > panos.merakos at livecode.com> wrote: > > > Dear list members, > > > > We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 8.1.0 RC-1. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From dave at applicationinsight.com Thu Aug 25 12:59:04 2016 From: dave at applicationinsight.com (Dave Kilroy) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 17:59:04 +0100 Subject: Atom Issues Message-ID: Hi Matt - I got rid of the ugh red error popups a while back by uninstalling and reinstalling Atom (I suspect the linter plugin was the culprit?) > Thanks, but that didn't change anything. > > On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 6:34 PM, Mike Kerner <[hidden email] > > wrote: > > > Here is a partial fix for the autocomplete issues. > > Settings->Packages->Autocomplete-plus Then find "Keymap for confirming a > > suggestion" and change it to tab, and uncheck "Automatically Confirm Single > > Suggestion" > > > > On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 12:47 PM, Matt Maier <[hidden email] > wrote: > > > > > I keep getting a red error popup every time I finish writing a word. It > > > cites the autocomplete-plus package. No idea how to get it to stop > > covering > > > half the window in red error messages. > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 6:59 PM, Mike Kerner <[hidden email] > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > I even run into this situation with enter when typing "then" for an "if > > > > then". > > > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 11:42 AM, Mike Kerner < > > [hidden email] > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Here's another one: Once atom memorizes a token (say, for example > > one > > > > > that's a typo, perhaps with capitalization that's wrong, because > > > > > capitalization matters in LCB), how do you get rid of the wrong > > token? > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 11:42 AM, Mike Kerner < > > > [hidden email] > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> I'm not hitting Enter because I want to accept the suggestion. I'm > > > > >> hitting Enter because I want a CR. So Enter is more like "ignore > > the > > > > >> suggestion and give me a CR" > > > > >> > > > > >> On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 11:39 AM, Colin Holgate < > > > [hidden email] > > > > > > > > > >> wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >>> That sounds like the nature of auto complete. You could work around > > > the > > > > >>> issue by using Tab to do the completing. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > On Aug 23, 2016, at 8:36 AM, Mike Kerner < > > > [hidden email] > > > > > >>> wrote: > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > Does anyone have any issues using Atom that they want to share? > > I > > > > >>> have one > > > > >>> > that is biting me frequently: If Atom is trying to suggest a > > > token, > > > > >>> and I > > > > >>> > hit CR, I don't get a CR. If I'm not watching, I can wind up > > with > > > > >>> several > > > > >>> > lines all appended together. Instead of having to do cmd-CR to > > > get a > > > > >>> CR, > > > > >>> > I'd kind of like CR do to what it normally does in every other > > app > > > I > > > > >>> use. > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > > > >>> use-livecode mailing list > > > > >>> [hidden email] > > > > >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > > > >>> subscription preferences: > > > > >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > >>> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> -- > > > > >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > > > >> On the second day, God created the oceans. > > > > >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > > > >> and did a little diving. > > > > >> And God said, "This is good." > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > > > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > > > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > > > > and did a little diving. > > > > > And God said, "This is good." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > > > and did a little diving. > > > > And God said, "This is good." > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > > [hidden email] > > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > > > subscription preferences: > > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > [hidden email] > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > > subscription preferences: > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > and did a little diving. > > And God said, "This is good." > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > [hidden email] > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > ... [show rest of quote <>] > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > [hidden email] > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Thu Aug 25 13:11:00 2016 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 20:11:00 +0300 Subject: [ ANN ] Release 8.1.0 RC-1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <66e2ac60-4604-39e1-a229-0f3f6ed125fc@gmail.com> At the risk of sounding very stupid indeed . . . I installed 8.1.0 rc 1 and typed this into the Message Box: put 5 into AA add 1 to AA put AA and saw no colourisation at all. What did I do wrong? Xubuntu 16.04 64-bit. Richmond. On 25.08.2016 17:01, panagiotis merakos wrote: > Nice to hear that, Mike. The 8.1 RC1 release is great IMO, because apart > from 80+ bug fixes, it contains a lot of enhancement requests, including > keyboard navigation in the Project Browser, script colorization in the msg > box and some more: > > https://github.com/livecode/livecode-ide/pulls?q=is%3Apr+label%3Aenhancement+milestone%3A8.1.0-rc-1+is%3Aclosed > > https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pulls?q=is%3Apr+label%3Aenhancement+milestone%3A8.1.0-rc-1+is%3Aclosed > > Best, > Panos > -- > > > On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 2:25 PM, Mike Kerner > wrote: > >> I am really excited about 8.1. I've been working with it for a while. >> There are several nifty things in here. >> >> On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 8:58 AM, panagiotis merakos < >> panos.merakos at livecode.com> wrote: >> >>> Dear list members, >>> >>> We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 8.1.0 RC-1. >>> >>> >>> Getting the Release >>> =================== >>> You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ or >> via >>> the automatic updater. >>> >>> >>> Release Contents >>> ================ >>> LiveCode 8.1.0 RC-1 contains 85 bug fixes and new features since the >>> LiveCode 8.1.0 DP3 release. Moreover, this release contains many >>> documentation updates and engine fixes contributed by Devin Asay, Jos? >>> Antonio Meira da Rocha, Charles Warwick, msiskin, Skipis and beda123. >> Thank >>> you! >>> >>> The full release notes are available from: >>> http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/8_1_0/LiveCodeNotes- >> 8_1_0_rc_1.pdf >>> >>> Feedback >>> ======== >>> Please report any bugs encountered on our Bugzilla at >>> http://quality.livecode.com/ >>> >>> We have a forum available for discussing LiveCode Builder at >>> http://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=93 >>> >>> >>> Have fun! >>> >>> The LiveCode Team >>> -- >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> >> -- >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >> On the second day, God created the oceans. >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >> and did a little diving. >> And God said, "This is good." >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From merakosp at gmail.com Thu Aug 25 13:14:10 2016 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 18:14:10 +0100 Subject: [ ANN ] Release 8.1.0 RC-1 In-Reply-To: <66e2ac60-4604-39e1-a229-0f3f6ed125fc@gmail.com> References: <66e2ac60-4604-39e1-a229-0f3f6ed125fc@gmail.com> Message-ID: I think you must have opened the script editor first On 25 Aug 2016 18:11, "Richmond" wrote: > At the risk of sounding very stupid indeed . . . > > I installed 8.1.0 rc 1 and typed this into the Message Box: > > put 5 into AA > add 1 to AA > put AA > > and saw no colourisation at all. What did I do wrong? > > Xubuntu 16.04 64-bit. > > Richmond. > > On 25.08.2016 17:01, panagiotis merakos wrote: > >> Nice to hear that, Mike. The 8.1 RC1 release is great IMO, because apart >> from 80+ bug fixes, it contains a lot of enhancement requests, including >> keyboard navigation in the Project Browser, script colorization in the msg >> box and some more: >> >> https://github.com/livecode/livecode-ide/pulls?q=is%3Apr+lab >> el%3Aenhancement+milestone%3A8.1.0-rc-1+is%3Aclosed >> >> https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pulls?q=is%3Apr+label% >> 3Aenhancement+milestone%3A8.1.0-rc-1+is%3Aclosed >> >> Best, >> Panos >> -- >> >> >> On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 2:25 PM, Mike Kerner >> wrote: >> >> I am really excited about 8.1. I've been working with it for a while. >>> There are several nifty things in here. >>> >>> On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 8:58 AM, panagiotis merakos < >>> panos.merakos at livecode.com> wrote: >>> >>> Dear list members, >>>> >>>> We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 8.1.0 RC-1. >>>> >>>> >>>> Getting the Release >>>> =================== >>>> You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ or >>>> >>> via >>> >>>> the automatic updater. >>>> >>>> >>>> Release Contents >>>> ================ >>>> LiveCode 8.1.0 RC-1 contains 85 bug fixes and new features since the >>>> LiveCode 8.1.0 DP3 release. Moreover, this release contains many >>>> documentation updates and engine fixes contributed by Devin Asay, Jos? >>>> Antonio Meira da Rocha, Charles Warwick, msiskin, Skipis and beda123. >>>> >>> Thank >>> >>>> you! >>>> >>>> The full release notes are available from: >>>> http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/8_1_0/LiveCodeNotes- >>>> >>> 8_1_0_rc_1.pdf >>> >>>> >>>> Feedback >>>> ======== >>>> Please report any bugs encountered on our Bugzilla at >>>> http://quality.livecode.com/ >>>> >>>> We have a forum available for discussing LiveCode Builder at >>>> http://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=93 >>>> >>>> >>>> Have fun! >>>> >>>> The LiveCode Team >>>> -- >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >>> On the second day, God created the oceans. >>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >>> and did a little diving. >>> And God said, "This is good." >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Thu Aug 25 13:18:38 2016 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 20:18:38 +0300 Subject: [ ANN ] Release 8.1.0 RC-1 In-Reply-To: References: <66e2ac60-4604-39e1-a229-0f3f6ed125fc@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3eb57934-0d08-6e89-0583-2721e5b2064c@gmail.com> Yes; you are quite right. I opened the scriptEditor and then the messageBox. It might not be a bad idea to put that into the documentation. Thank you, Richmond. On 25.08.2016 20:14, panagiotis merakos wrote: > I think you must have opened the script editor first > On 25 Aug 2016 18:11, "Richmond" wrote: > >> At the risk of sounding very stupid indeed . . . >> >> I installed 8.1.0 rc 1 and typed this into the Message Box: >> >> put 5 into AA >> add 1 to AA >> put AA >> >> and saw no colourisation at all. What did I do wrong? >> >> Xubuntu 16.04 64-bit. >> >> Richmond. >> >> On 25.08.2016 17:01, panagiotis merakos wrote: >> >>> Nice to hear that, Mike. The 8.1 RC1 release is great IMO, because apart >>> from 80+ bug fixes, it contains a lot of enhancement requests, including >>> keyboard navigation in the Project Browser, script colorization in the msg >>> box and some more: >>> >>> https://github.com/livecode/livecode-ide/pulls?q=is%3Apr+lab >>> el%3Aenhancement+milestone%3A8.1.0-rc-1+is%3Aclosed >>> >>> https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pulls?q=is%3Apr+label% >>> 3Aenhancement+milestone%3A8.1.0-rc-1+is%3Aclosed >>> >>> Best, >>> Panos >>> -- >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 2:25 PM, Mike Kerner >>> wrote: >>> >>> I am really excited about 8.1. I've been working with it for a while. >>>> There are several nifty things in here. >>>> >>>> On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 8:58 AM, panagiotis merakos < >>>> panos.merakos at livecode.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Dear list members, >>>>> We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 8.1.0 RC-1. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Getting the Release >>>>> =================== >>>>> You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ or >>>>> >>>> via >>>> >>>>> the automatic updater. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Release Contents >>>>> ================ >>>>> LiveCode 8.1.0 RC-1 contains 85 bug fixes and new features since the >>>>> LiveCode 8.1.0 DP3 release. Moreover, this release contains many >>>>> documentation updates and engine fixes contributed by Devin Asay, Jos? >>>>> Antonio Meira da Rocha, Charles Warwick, msiskin, Skipis and beda123. >>>>> >>>> Thank >>>> >>>>> you! >>>>> >>>>> The full release notes are available from: >>>>> http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/8_1_0/LiveCodeNotes- >>>>> >>>> 8_1_0_rc_1.pdf >>>> >>>>> Feedback >>>>> ======== >>>>> Please report any bugs encountered on our Bugzilla at >>>>> http://quality.livecode.com/ >>>>> >>>>> We have a forum available for discussing LiveCode Builder at >>>>> http://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=93 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Have fun! >>>>> >>>>> The LiveCode Team >>>>> -- >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >>>> On the second day, God created the oceans. >>>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >>>> and did a little diving. >>>> And God said, "This is good." >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Thu Aug 25 13:29:41 2016 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 20:29:41 +0300 Subject: [ ANN ] Release 8.1.0 RC-1 In-Reply-To: <3eb57934-0d08-6e89-0583-2721e5b2064c@gmail.com> References: <66e2ac60-4604-39e1-a229-0f3f6ed125fc@gmail.com> <3eb57934-0d08-6e89-0583-2721e5b2064c@gmail.com> Message-ID: <350483e3-d59c-1d1a-71a4-b7614bab22e4@gmail.com> Colourising the messageBox is marvellous . . . But it would be even more marvellous if one could set the font and the font size for the messageBox like one can the scriptEditor. Personally I find the teeny-weeny font size in the messageBox a bother: and I have had the font in the scriptEditor set to 18 for the last 10 years. Richmond. On 25.08.2016 20:18, Richmond wrote: > Yes; you are quite right. > > I opened the scriptEditor and then the messageBox. > > It might not be a bad idea to put that into the documentation. > > Thank you, Richmond. > > On 25.08.2016 20:14, panagiotis merakos wrote: >> I think you must have opened the script editor first >> On 25 Aug 2016 18:11, "Richmond" wrote: >> >>> At the risk of sounding very stupid indeed . . . >>> >>> I installed 8.1.0 rc 1 and typed this into the Message Box: >>> >>> put 5 into AA >>> add 1 to AA >>> put AA >>> >>> and saw no colourisation at all. What did I do wrong? >>> >>> Xubuntu 16.04 64-bit. >>> >>> Richmond. >>> >>> On 25.08.2016 17:01, panagiotis merakos wrote: >>> >>>> Nice to hear that, Mike. The 8.1 RC1 release is great IMO, because >>>> apart >>>> from 80+ bug fixes, it contains a lot of enhancement requests, >>>> including >>>> keyboard navigation in the Project Browser, script colorization in >>>> the msg >>>> box and some more: >>>> >>>> https://github.com/livecode/livecode-ide/pulls?q=is%3Apr+lab >>>> el%3Aenhancement+milestone%3A8.1.0-rc-1+is%3Aclosed >>>> >>>> https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pulls?q=is%3Apr+label% >>>> 3Aenhancement+milestone%3A8.1.0-rc-1+is%3Aclosed >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> Panos >>>> -- >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 2:25 PM, Mike Kerner >>>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> I am really excited about 8.1. I've been working with it for a while. >>>>> There are several nifty things in here. >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 8:58 AM, panagiotis merakos < >>>>> panos.merakos at livecode.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Dear list members, >>>>>> We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 8.1.0 RC-1. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Getting the Release >>>>>> =================== >>>>>> You can get the release at >>>>>> https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ or >>>>>> >>>>> via >>>>> >>>>>> the automatic updater. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Release Contents >>>>>> ================ >>>>>> LiveCode 8.1.0 RC-1 contains 85 bug fixes and new features since the >>>>>> LiveCode 8.1.0 DP3 release. Moreover, this release contains many >>>>>> documentation updates and engine fixes contributed by Devin Asay, >>>>>> Jos? >>>>>> Antonio Meira da Rocha, Charles Warwick, msiskin, Skipis and >>>>>> beda123. >>>>>> >>>>> Thank >>>>> >>>>>> you! >>>>>> >>>>>> The full release notes are available from: >>>>>> http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/8_1_0/LiveCodeNotes- >>>>>> >>>>> 8_1_0_rc_1.pdf >>>>> >>>>>> Feedback >>>>>> ======== >>>>>> Please report any bugs encountered on our Bugzilla at >>>>>> http://quality.livecode.com/ >>>>>> >>>>>> We have a forum available for discussing LiveCode Builder at >>>>>> http://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=93 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Have fun! >>>>>> >>>>>> The LiveCode Team >>>>>> -- >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >>>>> On the second day, God created the oceans. >>>>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >>>>> and did a little diving. >>>>> And God said, "This is good." >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From merakosp at gmail.com Thu Aug 25 13:51:06 2016 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 20:51:06 +0300 Subject: [ ANN ] Release 8.1.0 RC-1 In-Reply-To: <3eb57934-0d08-6e89-0583-2721e5b2064c@gmail.com> References: <66e2ac60-4604-39e1-a229-0f3f6ed125fc@gmail.com> <3eb57934-0d08-6e89-0583-2721e5b2064c@gmail.com> Message-ID: I am not sure if this is the expected behavior (i.e. to first open the Script Editor so as to get the msg box text colorized), so I filed a bug to investigate this further. http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18265 Best, Panos -- On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 8:18 PM, Richmond wrote: > Yes; you are quite right. > > I opened the scriptEditor and then the messageBox. > > It might not be a bad idea to put that into the documentation. > > Thank you, Richmond. > > On 25.08.2016 20:14, panagiotis merakos wrote: > >> I think you must have opened the script editor first >> On 25 Aug 2016 18:11, "Richmond" wrote: >> >> At the risk of sounding very stupid indeed . . . >>> >>> I installed 8.1.0 rc 1 and typed this into the Message Box: >>> >>> put 5 into AA >>> add 1 to AA >>> put AA >>> >>> and saw no colourisation at all. What did I do wrong? >>> >>> Xubuntu 16.04 64-bit. >>> >>> Richmond. >>> >>> On 25.08.2016 17:01, panagiotis merakos wrote: >>> >>> Nice to hear that, Mike. The 8.1 RC1 release is great IMO, because apart >>>> from 80+ bug fixes, it contains a lot of enhancement requests, >>>> including >>>> keyboard navigation in the Project Browser, script colorization in the >>>> msg >>>> box and some more: >>>> >>>> https://github.com/livecode/livecode-ide/pulls?q=is%3Apr+lab >>>> el%3Aenhancement+milestone%3A8.1.0-rc-1+is%3Aclosed >>>> >>>> https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pulls?q=is%3Apr+label% >>>> 3Aenhancement+milestone%3A8.1.0-rc-1+is%3Aclosed >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> Panos >>>> -- >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 2:25 PM, Mike Kerner >>> > >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> I am really excited about 8.1. I've been working with it for a while. >>>> >>>>> There are several nifty things in here. >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 8:58 AM, panagiotis merakos < >>>>> panos.merakos at livecode.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Dear list members, >>>>> >>>>>> We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 8.1.0 RC-1. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Getting the Release >>>>>> =================== >>>>>> You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ >>>>>> or >>>>>> >>>>>> via >>>>> >>>>> the automatic updater. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Release Contents >>>>>> ================ >>>>>> LiveCode 8.1.0 RC-1 contains 85 bug fixes and new features since the >>>>>> LiveCode 8.1.0 DP3 release. Moreover, this release contains many >>>>>> documentation updates and engine fixes contributed by Devin Asay, Jos? >>>>>> Antonio Meira da Rocha, Charles Warwick, msiskin, Skipis and beda123. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank >>>>> >>>>> you! >>>>>> >>>>>> The full release notes are available from: >>>>>> http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/8_1_0/LiveCodeNotes- >>>>>> >>>>>> 8_1_0_rc_1.pdf >>>>> >>>>> Feedback >>>>>> ======== >>>>>> Please report any bugs encountered on our Bugzilla at >>>>>> http://quality.livecode.com/ >>>>>> >>>>>> We have a forum available for discussing LiveCode Builder at >>>>>> http://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=93 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Have fun! >>>>>> >>>>>> The LiveCode Team >>>>>> -- >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >>>>> On the second day, God created the oceans. >>>>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >>>>> and did a little diving. >>>>> And God said, "This is good." >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Thu Aug 25 14:05:40 2016 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 21:05:40 +0300 Subject: [ ANN ] Release 8.1.0 RC-1 In-Reply-To: References: <66e2ac60-4604-39e1-a229-0f3f6ed125fc@gmail.com> <3eb57934-0d08-6e89-0583-2721e5b2064c@gmail.com> Message-ID: <79985ed3-a6b5-3df5-5a9f-979f7c8fb139@gmail.com> Thank you very much. Richmond. On 25.08.2016 20:51, panagiotis merakos wrote: > I am not sure if this is the expected behavior (i.e. to first open the > Script Editor so as to get the msg box text colorized), so I filed a bug to > investigate this further. > > http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18265 > > Best, > Panos > -- > > On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 8:18 PM, Richmond > wrote: > >> Yes; you are quite right. >> >> I opened the scriptEditor and then the messageBox. >> >> It might not be a bad idea to put that into the documentation. >> >> Thank you, Richmond. >> >> On 25.08.2016 20:14, panagiotis merakos wrote: >> >>> I think you must have opened the script editor first >>> On 25 Aug 2016 18:11, "Richmond" wrote: >>> >>> At the risk of sounding very stupid indeed . . . >>>> I installed 8.1.0 rc 1 and typed this into the Message Box: >>>> >>>> put 5 into AA >>>> add 1 to AA >>>> put AA >>>> >>>> and saw no colourisation at all. What did I do wrong? >>>> >>>> Xubuntu 16.04 64-bit. >>>> >>>> Richmond. >>>> >>>> On 25.08.2016 17:01, panagiotis merakos wrote: >>>> >>>> Nice to hear that, Mike. The 8.1 RC1 release is great IMO, because apart >>>>> from 80+ bug fixes, it contains a lot of enhancement requests, >>>>> including >>>>> keyboard navigation in the Project Browser, script colorization in the >>>>> msg >>>>> box and some more: >>>>> >>>>> https://github.com/livecode/livecode-ide/pulls?q=is%3Apr+lab >>>>> el%3Aenhancement+milestone%3A8.1.0-rc-1+is%3Aclosed >>>>> >>>>> https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pulls?q=is%3Apr+label% >>>>> 3Aenhancement+milestone%3A8.1.0-rc-1+is%3Aclosed >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> Panos >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 2:25 PM, Mike Kerner >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I am really excited about 8.1. I've been working with it for a while. >>>>> >>>>>> There are several nifty things in here. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 8:58 AM, panagiotis merakos < >>>>>> panos.merakos at livecode.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Dear list members, >>>>>> >>>>>>> We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 8.1.0 RC-1. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Getting the Release >>>>>>> =================== >>>>>>> You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ >>>>>>> or >>>>>>> >>>>>>> via >>>>>> the automatic updater. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Release Contents >>>>>>> ================ >>>>>>> LiveCode 8.1.0 RC-1 contains 85 bug fixes and new features since the >>>>>>> LiveCode 8.1.0 DP3 release. Moreover, this release contains many >>>>>>> documentation updates and engine fixes contributed by Devin Asay, Jos? >>>>>>> Antonio Meira da Rocha, Charles Warwick, msiskin, Skipis and beda123. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank >>>>>> you! >>>>>>> The full release notes are available from: >>>>>>> http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/8_1_0/LiveCodeNotes- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 8_1_0_rc_1.pdf >>>>>> Feedback >>>>>>> ======== >>>>>>> Please report any bugs encountered on our Bugzilla at >>>>>>> http://quality.livecode.com/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We have a forum available for discussing LiveCode Builder at >>>>>>> http://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=93 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Have fun! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The LiveCode Team >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >>>>>> On the second day, God created the oceans. >>>>>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >>>>>> and did a little diving. >>>>>> And God said, "This is good." >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Aug 25 14:12:39 2016 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 11:12:39 -0700 Subject: [ ANN ] Release 8.1.0 RC-1 In-Reply-To: <350483e3-d59c-1d1a-71a4-b7614bab22e4@gmail.com> References: <350483e3-d59c-1d1a-71a4-b7614bab22e4@gmail.com> Message-ID: <8da571d9-233c-055b-7e1f-bbeae5b67d80@fourthworld.com> Richmond wrote: > But it would be even more marvellous if one could set the font and > the font size for the messageBox like one can the scriptEditor. xTalks have long supported scriptTextFont and sciptTextSize for all sorts of use cases where displaying things as we're accustomed to seeing them in our scripts can be useful. The Message Box is a very good example. The scriptTextFont and scriptTextSize global properties continued to work through MetaCard 4.1 using LC engine 6.6.4 (perhaps later, that's just the more recent MC install I have), and the LC engine v8.1 still allows those values to be used once the IDE sets them. Unfortunately, the IDE no longer sets them. Both properties have been returning empty in the LiveCode IDE for years (possibly since the first script editor overhaul a decade or so ago), and are currently flagged as deprecated: http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11596 I suppose there's probably some IDE function that could be used for that instead (provided we hunt deeply enough to find it), but it seems much simpler to just use what's already in place in the engine for that. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Thu Aug 25 14:12:17 2016 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 14:12:17 -0400 Subject: [ ANN ] Release 8.1.0 RC-1 In-Reply-To: <79985ed3-a6b5-3df5-5a9f-979f7c8fb139@gmail.com> References: <66e2ac60-4604-39e1-a229-0f3f6ed125fc@gmail.com> <3eb57934-0d08-6e89-0583-2721e5b2064c@gmail.com> <79985ed3-a6b5-3df5-5a9f-979f7c8fb139@gmail.com> Message-ID: hmmm, a good idea, letting the user right-click in the message box to edit the font sizes, or having a settings card... On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 2:05 PM, Richmond wrote: > Thank you very much. > > Richmond. > > > On 25.08.2016 20:51, panagiotis merakos wrote: > >> I am not sure if this is the expected behavior (i.e. to first open the >> Script Editor so as to get the msg box text colorized), so I filed a bug >> to >> investigate this further. >> >> http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18265 >> >> Best, >> Panos >> -- >> >> On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 8:18 PM, Richmond >> wrote: >> >> Yes; you are quite right. >>> >>> I opened the scriptEditor and then the messageBox. >>> >>> It might not be a bad idea to put that into the documentation. >>> >>> Thank you, Richmond. >>> >>> On 25.08.2016 20:14, panagiotis merakos wrote: >>> >>> I think you must have opened the script editor first >>>> On 25 Aug 2016 18:11, "Richmond" wrote: >>>> >>>> At the risk of sounding very stupid indeed . . . >>>> >>>>> I installed 8.1.0 rc 1 and typed this into the Message Box: >>>>> >>>>> put 5 into AA >>>>> add 1 to AA >>>>> put AA >>>>> >>>>> and saw no colourisation at all. What did I do wrong? >>>>> >>>>> Xubuntu 16.04 64-bit. >>>>> >>>>> Richmond. >>>>> >>>>> On 25.08.2016 17:01, panagiotis merakos wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Nice to hear that, Mike. The 8.1 RC1 release is great IMO, because >>>>> apart >>>>> >>>>>> from 80+ bug fixes, it contains a lot of enhancement requests, >>>>>> including >>>>>> keyboard navigation in the Project Browser, script colorization in the >>>>>> msg >>>>>> box and some more: >>>>>> >>>>>> https://github.com/livecode/livecode-ide/pulls?q=is%3Apr+lab >>>>>> el%3Aenhancement+milestone%3A8.1.0-rc-1+is%3Aclosed >>>>>> >>>>>> https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pulls?q=is%3Apr+label% >>>>>> 3Aenhancement+milestone%3A8.1.0-rc-1+is%3Aclosed >>>>>> >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> Panos >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 2:25 PM, Mike Kerner < >>>>>> MikeKerner at roadrunner.com >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I am really excited about 8.1. I've been working with it for a while. >>>>>> >>>>>> There are several nifty things in here. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 8:58 AM, panagiotis merakos < >>>>>>> panos.merakos at livecode.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dear list members, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 8.1.0 RC-1. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Getting the Release >>>>>>>> =================== >>>>>>>> You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ >>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> via >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> the automatic updater. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Release Contents >>>>>>>> ================ >>>>>>>> LiveCode 8.1.0 RC-1 contains 85 bug fixes and new features since the >>>>>>>> LiveCode 8.1.0 DP3 release. Moreover, this release contains many >>>>>>>> documentation updates and engine fixes contributed by Devin Asay, >>>>>>>> Jos? >>>>>>>> Antonio Meira da Rocha, Charles Warwick, msiskin, Skipis and >>>>>>>> beda123. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thank >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> you! >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The full release notes are available from: >>>>>>>> http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/8_1_0/LiveCodeNotes- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 8_1_0_rc_1.pdf >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Feedback >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ======== >>>>>>>> Please report any bugs encountered on our Bugzilla at >>>>>>>> http://quality.livecode.com/ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We have a forum available for discussing LiveCode Builder at >>>>>>>> http://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=93 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Have fun! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The LiveCode Team >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >>>>>>> On the second day, God created the oceans. >>>>>>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >>>>>>> and did a little diving. >>>>>>> And God said, "This is good." >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> >>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From bonnmike at gmail.com Thu Aug 25 14:16:20 2016 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 12:16:20 -0600 Subject: [ ANN ] Release 8.1.0 RC-1 In-Reply-To: <79985ed3-a6b5-3df5-5a9f-979f7c8fb139@gmail.com> References: <66e2ac60-4604-39e1-a229-0f3f6ed125fc@gmail.com> <3eb57934-0d08-6e89-0583-2721e5b2064c@gmail.com> <79985ed3-a6b5-3df5-5a9f-979f7c8fb139@gmail.com> Message-ID: Richmond.. Short term you can do this.. set the textsize of field "message" of card "single line" of stack "message box" to 18 set the textsize of field "results" of card "single line" of stack "message box" to 18 set the textsize of field "message" of card "multiple lines" of stack "message box" to 18 set the textsize of field "results" of card "multiple lines" of stack "message box" to 18 Makes it considerably easier for my aging eyes to see. On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 12:05 PM, Richmond wrote: > Thank you very much. > > Richmond. > > > On 25.08.2016 20:51, panagiotis merakos wrote: > >> I am not sure if this is the expected behavior (i.e. to first open the >> Script Editor so as to get the msg box text colorized), so I filed a bug >> to >> investigate this further. >> >> http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18265 >> >> Best, >> Panos >> -- >> >> On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 8:18 PM, Richmond >> wrote: >> >> Yes; you are quite right. >>> >>> I opened the scriptEditor and then the messageBox. >>> >>> It might not be a bad idea to put that into the documentation. >>> >>> Thank you, Richmond. >>> >>> On 25.08.2016 20:14, panagiotis merakos wrote: >>> >>> I think you must have opened the script editor first >>>> On 25 Aug 2016 18:11, "Richmond" wrote: >>>> >>>> At the risk of sounding very stupid indeed . . . >>>> >>>>> I installed 8.1.0 rc 1 and typed this into the Message Box: >>>>> >>>>> put 5 into AA >>>>> add 1 to AA >>>>> put AA >>>>> >>>>> and saw no colourisation at all. What did I do wrong? >>>>> >>>>> Xubuntu 16.04 64-bit. >>>>> >>>>> Richmond. >>>>> >>>>> On 25.08.2016 17:01, panagiotis merakos wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Nice to hear that, Mike. The 8.1 RC1 release is great IMO, because >>>>> apart >>>>> >>>>>> from 80+ bug fixes, it contains a lot of enhancement requests, >>>>>> including >>>>>> keyboard navigation in the Project Browser, script colorization in the >>>>>> msg >>>>>> box and some more: >>>>>> >>>>>> https://github.com/livecode/livecode-ide/pulls?q=is%3Apr+lab >>>>>> el%3Aenhancement+milestone%3A8.1.0-rc-1+is%3Aclosed >>>>>> >>>>>> https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pulls?q=is%3Apr+label% >>>>>> 3Aenhancement+milestone%3A8.1.0-rc-1+is%3Aclosed >>>>>> >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> Panos >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 2:25 PM, Mike Kerner < >>>>>> MikeKerner at roadrunner.com >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I am really excited about 8.1. I've been working with it for a while. >>>>>> >>>>>> There are several nifty things in here. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 8:58 AM, panagiotis merakos < >>>>>>> panos.merakos at livecode.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dear list members, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 8.1.0 RC-1. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Getting the Release >>>>>>>> =================== >>>>>>>> You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ >>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> via >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> the automatic updater. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Release Contents >>>>>>>> ================ >>>>>>>> LiveCode 8.1.0 RC-1 contains 85 bug fixes and new features since the >>>>>>>> LiveCode 8.1.0 DP3 release. Moreover, this release contains many >>>>>>>> documentation updates and engine fixes contributed by Devin Asay, >>>>>>>> Jos? >>>>>>>> Antonio Meira da Rocha, Charles Warwick, msiskin, Skipis and >>>>>>>> beda123. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thank >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> you! >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The full release notes are available from: >>>>>>>> http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/8_1_0/LiveCodeNotes- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 8_1_0_rc_1.pdf >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Feedback >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ======== >>>>>>>> Please report any bugs encountered on our Bugzilla at >>>>>>>> http://quality.livecode.com/ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We have a forum available for discussing LiveCode Builder at >>>>>>>> http://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=93 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Have fun! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The LiveCode Team >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >>>>>>> On the second day, God created the oceans. >>>>>>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >>>>>>> and did a little diving. >>>>>>> And God said, "This is good." >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> >>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From bonnmike at gmail.com Thu Aug 25 14:17:19 2016 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 12:17:19 -0600 Subject: [ ANN ] Release 8.1.0 RC-1 In-Reply-To: References: <66e2ac60-4604-39e1-a229-0f3f6ed125fc@gmail.com> <3eb57934-0d08-6e89-0583-2721e5b2064c@gmail.com> <79985ed3-a6b5-3df5-5a9f-979f7c8fb139@gmail.com> Message-ID: Oh, theres 2 more fields you'd have to adjust too I guess. (the ones displaying the "best guess.." as you type. On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 12:16 PM, Mike Bonner wrote: > Richmond.. Short term you can do this.. > > set the textsize of field "message" of card "single line" of stack > "message box" to 18 > set the textsize of field "results" of card "single line" of stack > "message box" to 18 > set the textsize of field "message" of card "multiple lines" of stack > "message box" to 18 > set the textsize of field "results" of card "multiple lines" of stack > "message box" to 18 > > Makes it considerably easier for my aging eyes to see. > > On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 12:05 PM, Richmond > wrote: > >> Thank you very much. >> >> Richmond. >> >> >> On 25.08.2016 20:51, panagiotis merakos wrote: >> >>> I am not sure if this is the expected behavior (i.e. to first open the >>> Script Editor so as to get the msg box text colorized), so I filed a bug >>> to >>> investigate this further. >>> >>> http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18265 >>> >>> Best, >>> Panos >>> -- >>> >>> On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 8:18 PM, Richmond >>> wrote: >>> >>> Yes; you are quite right. >>>> >>>> I opened the scriptEditor and then the messageBox. >>>> >>>> It might not be a bad idea to put that into the documentation. >>>> >>>> Thank you, Richmond. >>>> >>>> On 25.08.2016 20:14, panagiotis merakos wrote: >>>> >>>> I think you must have opened the script editor first >>>>> On 25 Aug 2016 18:11, "Richmond" wrote: >>>>> >>>>> At the risk of sounding very stupid indeed . . . >>>>> >>>>>> I installed 8.1.0 rc 1 and typed this into the Message Box: >>>>>> >>>>>> put 5 into AA >>>>>> add 1 to AA >>>>>> put AA >>>>>> >>>>>> and saw no colourisation at all. What did I do wrong? >>>>>> >>>>>> Xubuntu 16.04 64-bit. >>>>>> >>>>>> Richmond. >>>>>> >>>>>> On 25.08.2016 17:01, panagiotis merakos wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Nice to hear that, Mike. The 8.1 RC1 release is great IMO, because >>>>>> apart >>>>>> >>>>>>> from 80+ bug fixes, it contains a lot of enhancement requests, >>>>>>> including >>>>>>> keyboard navigation in the Project Browser, script colorization in >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> msg >>>>>>> box and some more: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://github.com/livecode/livecode-ide/pulls?q=is%3Apr+lab >>>>>>> el%3Aenhancement+milestone%3A8.1.0-rc-1+is%3Aclosed >>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pulls?q=is%3Apr+label% >>>>>>> 3Aenhancement+milestone%3A8.1.0-rc-1+is%3Aclosed >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>> Panos >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 2:25 PM, Mike Kerner < >>>>>>> MikeKerner at roadrunner.com >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I am really excited about 8.1. I've been working with it for a >>>>>>> while. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There are several nifty things in here. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 8:58 AM, panagiotis merakos < >>>>>>>> panos.merakos at livecode.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Dear list members, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 8.1.0 RC-1. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Getting the Release >>>>>>>>> =================== >>>>>>>>> You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com >>>>>>>>> /livecode/ >>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> via >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> the automatic updater. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Release Contents >>>>>>>>> ================ >>>>>>>>> LiveCode 8.1.0 RC-1 contains 85 bug fixes and new features since >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> LiveCode 8.1.0 DP3 release. Moreover, this release contains many >>>>>>>>> documentation updates and engine fixes contributed by Devin Asay, >>>>>>>>> Jos? >>>>>>>>> Antonio Meira da Rocha, Charles Warwick, msiskin, Skipis and >>>>>>>>> beda123. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thank >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> you! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The full release notes are available from: >>>>>>>>> http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/8_1_0/LiveCodeNotes- >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 8_1_0_rc_1.pdf >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Feedback >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ======== >>>>>>>>> Please report any bugs encountered on our Bugzilla at >>>>>>>>> http://quality.livecode.com/ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> We have a forum available for discussing LiveCode Builder at >>>>>>>>> http://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=93 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Have fun! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The LiveCode Team >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>>>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >>>>>>>> On the second day, God created the oceans. >>>>>>>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >>>>>>>> and did a little diving. >>>>>>>> And God said, "This is good." >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > From bonnmike at gmail.com Thu Aug 25 14:21:27 2016 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 12:21:27 -0600 Subject: [ ANN ] Release 8.1.0 RC-1 In-Reply-To: References: <66e2ac60-4604-39e1-a229-0f3f6ed125fc@gmail.com> <3eb57934-0d08-6e89-0583-2721e5b2064c@gmail.com> <79985ed3-a6b5-3df5-5a9f-979f7c8fb139@gmail.com> Message-ID: This: set the textsize of field "auto complete" of card "single line" of stack "message box" to 18 On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 12:17 PM, Mike Bonner wrote: > Oh, theres 2 more fields you'd have to adjust too I guess. (the ones > displaying the "best guess.." as you type. > > On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 12:16 PM, Mike Bonner wrote: > >> Richmond.. Short term you can do this.. >> >> set the textsize of field "message" of card "single line" of stack >> "message box" to 18 >> set the textsize of field "results" of card "single line" of stack >> "message box" to 18 >> set the textsize of field "message" of card "multiple lines" of stack >> "message box" to 18 >> set the textsize of field "results" of card "multiple lines" of stack >> "message box" to 18 >> >> Makes it considerably easier for my aging eyes to see. >> >> On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 12:05 PM, Richmond >> wrote: >> >>> Thank you very much. >>> >>> Richmond. >>> >>> >>> On 25.08.2016 20:51, panagiotis merakos wrote: >>> >>>> I am not sure if this is the expected behavior (i.e. to first open the >>>> Script Editor so as to get the msg box text colorized), so I filed a >>>> bug to >>>> investigate this further. >>>> >>>> http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18265 >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> Panos >>>> -- >>>> >>>> On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 8:18 PM, Richmond >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Yes; you are quite right. >>>>> >>>>> I opened the scriptEditor and then the messageBox. >>>>> >>>>> It might not be a bad idea to put that into the documentation. >>>>> >>>>> Thank you, Richmond. >>>>> >>>>> On 25.08.2016 20:14, panagiotis merakos wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I think you must have opened the script editor first >>>>>> On 25 Aug 2016 18:11, "Richmond" wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> At the risk of sounding very stupid indeed . . . >>>>>> >>>>>>> I installed 8.1.0 rc 1 and typed this into the Message Box: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> put 5 into AA >>>>>>> add 1 to AA >>>>>>> put AA >>>>>>> >>>>>>> and saw no colourisation at all. What did I do wrong? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Xubuntu 16.04 64-bit. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Richmond. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 25.08.2016 17:01, panagiotis merakos wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Nice to hear that, Mike. The 8.1 RC1 release is great IMO, because >>>>>>> apart >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> from 80+ bug fixes, it contains a lot of enhancement requests, >>>>>>>> including >>>>>>>> keyboard navigation in the Project Browser, script colorization in >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> msg >>>>>>>> box and some more: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> https://github.com/livecode/livecode-ide/pulls?q=is%3Apr+lab >>>>>>>> el%3Aenhancement+milestone%3A8.1.0-rc-1+is%3Aclosed >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pulls?q=is%3Apr+label% >>>>>>>> 3Aenhancement+milestone%3A8.1.0-rc-1+is%3Aclosed >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>> Panos >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 2:25 PM, Mike Kerner < >>>>>>>> MikeKerner at roadrunner.com >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I am really excited about 8.1. I've been working with it for a >>>>>>>> while. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> There are several nifty things in here. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 8:58 AM, panagiotis merakos < >>>>>>>>> panos.merakos at livecode.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Dear list members, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 8.1.0 RC-1. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Getting the Release >>>>>>>>>> =================== >>>>>>>>>> You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com >>>>>>>>>> /livecode/ >>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> via >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> the automatic updater. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Release Contents >>>>>>>>>> ================ >>>>>>>>>> LiveCode 8.1.0 RC-1 contains 85 bug fixes and new features since >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> LiveCode 8.1.0 DP3 release. Moreover, this release contains many >>>>>>>>>> documentation updates and engine fixes contributed by Devin Asay, >>>>>>>>>> Jos? >>>>>>>>>> Antonio Meira da Rocha, Charles Warwick, msiskin, Skipis and >>>>>>>>>> beda123. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thank >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> you! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The full release notes are available from: >>>>>>>>>> http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/8_1_0/LiveCodeNotes- >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 8_1_0_rc_1.pdf >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Feedback >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ======== >>>>>>>>>> Please report any bugs encountered on our Bugzilla at >>>>>>>>>> http://quality.livecode.com/ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> We have a forum available for discussing LiveCode Builder at >>>>>>>>>> http://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=93 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Have fun! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The LiveCode Team >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>>>>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >>>>>>>>> On the second day, God created the oceans. >>>>>>>>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >>>>>>>>> and did a little diving. >>>>>>>>> And God said, "This is good." >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>>>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> > From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Thu Aug 25 14:27:26 2016 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 21:27:26 +0300 Subject: [ ANN ] Release 8.1.0 RC-1 In-Reply-To: References: <66e2ac60-4604-39e1-a229-0f3f6ed125fc@gmail.com> <3eb57934-0d08-6e89-0583-2721e5b2064c@gmail.com> <79985ed3-a6b5-3df5-5a9f-979f7c8fb139@gmail.com> Message-ID: <9219c10f-d36e-3619-4db0-2337ceefefd5@gmail.com> Thanks. I am aware of that: http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=27829 I am fairly handy at mucking around with (and mucking up) components of the IDE. However there are lots of end-users, and lots more potential end-users (especially if I get my wicked way and get my book out to push Livecode as an authoring environment for teachers) who either don't know how to do that sort of thing, or don't have the time and/or motivation to learn that. For them a settings pane in the IDE Preferences would be very good indeed. R. On 25.08.2016 21:16, Mike Bonner wrote: > Richmond.. Short term you can do this.. > > set the textsize of field "message" of card "single line" of stack "message > box" to 18 > set the textsize of field "results" of card "single line" of stack "message > box" to 18 > set the textsize of field "message" of card "multiple lines" of stack > "message box" to 18 > set the textsize of field "results" of card "multiple lines" of stack > "message box" to 18 > > Makes it considerably easier for my aging eyes to see. > > On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 12:05 PM, Richmond > wrote: > >> Thank you very much. >> >> Richmond. >> >> >> On 25.08.2016 20:51, panagiotis merakos wrote: >> >>> I am not sure if this is the expected behavior (i.e. to first open the >>> Script Editor so as to get the msg box text colorized), so I filed a bug >>> to >>> investigate this further. >>> >>> http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18265 >>> >>> Best, >>> Panos >>> -- >>> >>> On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 8:18 PM, Richmond >>> wrote: >>> >>> Yes; you are quite right. >>>> I opened the scriptEditor and then the messageBox. >>>> >>>> It might not be a bad idea to put that into the documentation. >>>> >>>> Thank you, Richmond. >>>> >>>> On 25.08.2016 20:14, panagiotis merakos wrote: >>>> >>>> I think you must have opened the script editor first >>>>> On 25 Aug 2016 18:11, "Richmond" wrote: >>>>> >>>>> At the risk of sounding very stupid indeed . . . >>>>> >>>>>> I installed 8.1.0 rc 1 and typed this into the Message Box: >>>>>> >>>>>> put 5 into AA >>>>>> add 1 to AA >>>>>> put AA >>>>>> >>>>>> and saw no colourisation at all. What did I do wrong? >>>>>> >>>>>> Xubuntu 16.04 64-bit. >>>>>> >>>>>> Richmond. >>>>>> >>>>>> On 25.08.2016 17:01, panagiotis merakos wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Nice to hear that, Mike. The 8.1 RC1 release is great IMO, because >>>>>> apart >>>>>> >>>>>>> from 80+ bug fixes, it contains a lot of enhancement requests, >>>>>>> including >>>>>>> keyboard navigation in the Project Browser, script colorization in the >>>>>>> msg >>>>>>> box and some more: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://github.com/livecode/livecode-ide/pulls?q=is%3Apr+lab >>>>>>> el%3Aenhancement+milestone%3A8.1.0-rc-1+is%3Aclosed >>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pulls?q=is%3Apr+label% >>>>>>> 3Aenhancement+milestone%3A8.1.0-rc-1+is%3Aclosed >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>> Panos >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 2:25 PM, Mike Kerner < >>>>>>> MikeKerner at roadrunner.com >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I am really excited about 8.1. I've been working with it for a while. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There are several nifty things in here. >>>>>>>> On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 8:58 AM, panagiotis merakos < >>>>>>>> panos.merakos at livecode.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Dear list members, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 8.1.0 RC-1. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Getting the Release >>>>>>>>> =================== >>>>>>>>> You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ >>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> via >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> the automatic updater. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Release Contents >>>>>>>>> ================ >>>>>>>>> LiveCode 8.1.0 RC-1 contains 85 bug fixes and new features since the >>>>>>>>> LiveCode 8.1.0 DP3 release. Moreover, this release contains many >>>>>>>>> documentation updates and engine fixes contributed by Devin Asay, >>>>>>>>> Jos? >>>>>>>>> Antonio Meira da Rocha, Charles Warwick, msiskin, Skipis and >>>>>>>>> beda123. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thank >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> you! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The full release notes are available from: >>>>>>>>> http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/8_1_0/LiveCodeNotes- >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 8_1_0_rc_1.pdf >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Feedback >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ======== >>>>>>>>> Please report any bugs encountered on our Bugzilla at >>>>>>>>> http://quality.livecode.com/ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> We have a forum available for discussing LiveCode Builder at >>>>>>>>> http://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=93 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Have fun! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The LiveCode Team >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>>>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >>>>>>>> On the second day, God created the oceans. >>>>>>>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >>>>>>>> and did a little diving. >>>>>>>> And God said, "This is good." >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bonnmike at gmail.com Thu Aug 25 14:28:33 2016 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 12:28:33 -0600 Subject: [ ANN ] Release 8.1.0 RC-1 In-Reply-To: <9219c10f-d36e-3619-4db0-2337ceefefd5@gmail.com> References: <66e2ac60-4604-39e1-a229-0f3f6ed125fc@gmail.com> <3eb57934-0d08-6e89-0583-2721e5b2064c@gmail.com> <79985ed3-a6b5-3df5-5a9f-979f7c8fb139@gmail.com> <9219c10f-d36e-3619-4db0-2337ceefefd5@gmail.com> Message-ID: Indeed On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 12:27 PM, Richmond wrote: > Thanks. > > I am aware of that: http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=27829 > > I am fairly handy at mucking around with (and mucking up) components of > the IDE. > > However there are lots of end-users, and lots more potential end-users > (especially if I get > my wicked way and get my book out to push Livecode as an authoring > environment for teachers) > who either don't know how to do that sort of thing, or don't have the time > and/or motivation to > learn that. For them a settings pane in the IDE Preferences would be very > good indeed. > > R. > > > On 25.08.2016 21:16, Mike Bonner wrote: > >> Richmond.. Short term you can do this.. >> >> set the textsize of field "message" of card "single line" of stack >> "message >> box" to 18 >> set the textsize of field "results" of card "single line" of stack >> "message >> box" to 18 >> set the textsize of field "message" of card "multiple lines" of stack >> "message box" to 18 >> set the textsize of field "results" of card "multiple lines" of stack >> "message box" to 18 >> >> Makes it considerably easier for my aging eyes to see. >> >> On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 12:05 PM, Richmond >> wrote: >> >> Thank you very much. >>> >>> Richmond. >>> >>> >>> On 25.08.2016 20:51, panagiotis merakos wrote: >>> >>> I am not sure if this is the expected behavior (i.e. to first open the >>>> Script Editor so as to get the msg box text colorized), so I filed a bug >>>> to >>>> investigate this further. >>>> >>>> http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18265 >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> Panos >>>> -- >>>> >>>> On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 8:18 PM, Richmond >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Yes; you are quite right. >>>> >>>>> I opened the scriptEditor and then the messageBox. >>>>> >>>>> It might not be a bad idea to put that into the documentation. >>>>> >>>>> Thank you, Richmond. >>>>> >>>>> On 25.08.2016 20:14, panagiotis merakos wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I think you must have opened the script editor first >>>>> >>>>>> On 25 Aug 2016 18:11, "Richmond" wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> At the risk of sounding very stupid indeed . . . >>>>>> >>>>>> I installed 8.1.0 rc 1 and typed this into the Message Box: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> put 5 into AA >>>>>>> add 1 to AA >>>>>>> put AA >>>>>>> >>>>>>> and saw no colourisation at all. What did I do wrong? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Xubuntu 16.04 64-bit. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Richmond. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 25.08.2016 17:01, panagiotis merakos wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Nice to hear that, Mike. The 8.1 RC1 release is great IMO, because >>>>>>> apart >>>>>>> >>>>>>> from 80+ bug fixes, it contains a lot of enhancement requests, >>>>>>>> including >>>>>>>> keyboard navigation in the Project Browser, script colorization in >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> msg >>>>>>>> box and some more: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> https://github.com/livecode/livecode-ide/pulls?q=is%3Apr+lab >>>>>>>> el%3Aenhancement+milestone%3A8.1.0-rc-1+is%3Aclosed >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pulls?q=is%3Apr+label% >>>>>>>> 3Aenhancement+milestone%3A8.1.0-rc-1+is%3Aclosed >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>> Panos >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 2:25 PM, Mike Kerner < >>>>>>>> MikeKerner at roadrunner.com >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I am really excited about 8.1. I've been working with it for a >>>>>>>> while. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> There are several nifty things in here. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 8:58 AM, panagiotis merakos < >>>>>>>>> panos.merakos at livecode.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Dear list members, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 8.1.0 RC-1. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Getting the Release >>>>>>>>>> =================== >>>>>>>>>> You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com >>>>>>>>>> /livecode/ >>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> via >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> the automatic updater. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Release Contents >>>>>>>>>> ================ >>>>>>>>>> LiveCode 8.1.0 RC-1 contains 85 bug fixes and new features since >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> LiveCode 8.1.0 DP3 release. Moreover, this release contains many >>>>>>>>>> documentation updates and engine fixes contributed by Devin Asay, >>>>>>>>>> Jos? >>>>>>>>>> Antonio Meira da Rocha, Charles Warwick, msiskin, Skipis and >>>>>>>>>> beda123. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thank >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> you! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The full release notes are available from: >>>>>>>>>> http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/8_1_0/LiveCodeNotes- >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 8_1_0_rc_1.pdf >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Feedback >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ======== >>>>>>>>>> Please report any bugs encountered on our Bugzilla at >>>>>>>>>> http://quality.livecode.com/ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> We have a forum available for discussing LiveCode Builder at >>>>>>>>>> http://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=93 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Have fun! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The LiveCode Team >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>>>>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >>>>>>>>> On the second day, God created the oceans. >>>>>>>>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >>>>>>>>> and did a little diving. >>>>>>>>> And God said, "This is good." >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>>>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> >>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Thu Aug 25 15:01:49 2016 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 22:01:49 +0300 Subject: Missing a chance Message-ID: <9c66e55f-8e67-ad91-a705-f7b6b597e8f9@gmail.com> Livecode is so not here it makes me howl: https://elearningindustry.com/list-of-authoring-tools-part-1 https://elearningindustry.com/list-of-authoring-tools-part-2 https://elearningindustry.com/37-authoring-tools Richmond. From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Aug 25 15:21:34 2016 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 12:21:34 -0700 Subject: Missing a chance In-Reply-To: <9c66e55f-8e67-ad91-a705-f7b6b597e8f9@gmail.com> References: <9c66e55f-8e67-ad91-a705-f7b6b597e8f9@gmail.com> Message-ID: Richmond wrote: > Livecode is so not here it makes me howl: > > https://elearningindustry.com/list-of-authoring-tools-part-1 > https://elearningindustry.com/list-of-authoring-tools-part-2 > https://elearningindustry.com/37-authoring-tools Yes, there are many thousands of tools lists across the web, and it's always good to add LC to those when we come across them. But I don't understand the "howl" - was your nominating LC to that one rejected? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Thu Aug 25 15:40:10 2016 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 22:40:10 +0300 Subject: Missing a chance In-Reply-To: References: <9c66e55f-8e67-ad91-a705-f7b6b597e8f9@gmail.com> Message-ID: No my howl was because I shouldn't hgave to add LC: it should be one of the automatic authoring tools of choice. R. On 25.08.2016 22:21, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Richmond wrote: > > > Livecode is so not here it makes me howl: > > > > https://elearningindustry.com/list-of-authoring-tools-part-1 > > https://elearningindustry.com/list-of-authoring-tools-part-2 > > https://elearningindustry.com/37-authoring-tools > > Yes, there are many thousands of tools lists across the web, and it's > always good to add LC to those when we come across them. > > But I don't understand the "howl" - was your nominating LC to that one > rejected? > From monte at appisle.net Thu Aug 25 15:53:19 2016 From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2016 05:53:19 +1000 Subject: [ ANN ] Release 8.1.0 RC-1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > On 26 Aug 2016, at 2:15 AM, Mike Kerner wrote: > > Hopefully, soon, we'll get script color printing back, too. Mike unfortunately the issue with script color printing on Mac is not just isolated to the IDE as it is color printing after setting the htmlText or styleText to something with color chunks. There appears to be a workaround as selecting a chunk and setting its color from the menu works fine but I haven?t had time to document that yet. I do not want to use workarounds in the IDE so I spent a day trying to find where the issue is and I couldn?t get a handle on it so I had to move on so we will need to revisit it for 8.1.1. As far as I can tell the colors are getting to the graphics context during printing but being lost somewhere there? somehow? But I?m the noob around here so perhaps I just don?t get this rather curly bit of the engine yet? Cheers Monte From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Aug 25 16:01:20 2016 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 13:01:20 -0700 Subject: Missing a chance In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Richmond wrote: > On 25.08.2016 22:21, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> Richmond wrote: >> >> > Livecode is so not here it makes me howl: >> > >> > https://elearningindustry.com/list-of-authoring-tools-part-1 >> > https://elearningindustry.com/list-of-authoring-tools-part-2 >> > https://elearningindustry.com/37-authoring-tools >> >> Yes, there are many thousands of tools lists across the web, and it's >> always good to add LC to those when we come across them. >> >> But I don't understand the "howl" - was your nominating LC to that >> one rejected? > > No my howl was because I shouldn't hgave to add LC: it should be one > of the automatic authoring tools of choice. Why? We here on this list know LiveCode well, and we know that we can craft excellent authoring tools with it. But unless we spread the word, how can we expect the word to be spread? Carpe diem! -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Thu Aug 25 16:15:44 2016 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 16:15:44 -0400 Subject: [ ANN ] Release 8.1.0 RC-1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Rats. I found an ios crash that appears to be a regression from 8.0.2... On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 3:53 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > > > On 26 Aug 2016, at 2:15 AM, Mike Kerner > wrote: > > > > Hopefully, soon, we'll get script color printing back, too. > > Mike unfortunately the issue with script color printing on Mac is not just > isolated to the IDE as it is color printing after setting the htmlText or > styleText to something with color chunks. There appears to be a workaround > as selecting a chunk and setting its color from the menu works fine but I > haven?t had time to document that yet. I do not want to use workarounds in > the IDE so I spent a day trying to find where the issue is and I couldn?t > get a handle on it so I had to move on so we will need to revisit it for > 8.1.1. As far as I can tell the colors are getting to the graphics context > during printing but being lost somewhere there? somehow? But I?m the noob > around here so perhaps I just don?t get this rather curly bit of the engine > yet? > > Cheers > > Monte > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From monte at appisle.net Thu Aug 25 16:18:36 2016 From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2016 06:18:36 +1000 Subject: [ ANN ] Release 8.1.0 RC-1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <82987A49-F296-4D77-AE63-17D17FF0F818@appisle.net> > On 26 Aug 2016, at 6:15 AM, Mike Kerner wrote: > > Rats. I found an ios crash that appears to be a regression from 8.0.2... Can you provide some more detail? We currently know about and will have a fix for a crash using 64 bit simulators + tsNet. Cheers Monte From monte at appisle.net Thu Aug 25 16:22:24 2016 From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2016 06:22:24 +1000 Subject: Performance issues LC8 versus earlier versions. In-Reply-To: <70483061-81da-191d-ba5f-facdd55827b1@tweedly.net> References: <93fefe2d-4c4d-3245-6e6c-1183e0b09904@fourthworld.com> <159121c6-71cf-f752-769a-115904905ab8@tweedly.net> <5220FCBA-1944-4D1C-94B6-4D41938BA192@appisle.net> <71BD486F-B5CB-482F-B11A-9D3B72911CF1@appisle.net> <70483061-81da-191d-ba5f-facdd55827b1@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <9E88E6A1-A1BE-4755-BB08-279D5B58641F@appisle.net> > On 25 Aug 2016, at 5:49 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote: > > That is wonderful - thanks Monte. > btw - I opened a bug report to keep track of it, and so you'd have somewhere to hang the change on to - 18254 FYI I have also added the length check to non-binary strings to speed up comparisons of those where their length is greater than 383 also. It could still be that the team tells me I?ve overlooked something here but it certainly makes sense to me to check that something is feasibly a number before attempting to parse it into one... Cheers Monte From monte at appisle.net Thu Aug 25 16:23:11 2016 From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2016 06:23:11 +1000 Subject: [ ANN ] Release 8.1.0 RC-1 In-Reply-To: <3eb57934-0d08-6e89-0583-2721e5b2064c@gmail.com> References: <66e2ac60-4604-39e1-a229-0f3f6ed125fc@gmail.com> <3eb57934-0d08-6e89-0583-2721e5b2064c@gmail.com> Message-ID: > On 26 Aug 2016, at 3:18 AM, Richmond wrote: > > It might not be a bad idea to put that into the documentation. Why? I?m in the midst of fixing it ;-) From monte at appisle.net Thu Aug 25 16:23:58 2016 From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2016 06:23:58 +1000 Subject: [ ANN ] Release 8.1.0 RC-1 In-Reply-To: <350483e3-d59c-1d1a-71a4-b7614bab22e4@gmail.com> References: <66e2ac60-4604-39e1-a229-0f3f6ed125fc@gmail.com> <3eb57934-0d08-6e89-0583-2721e5b2064c@gmail.com> <350483e3-d59c-1d1a-71a4-b7614bab22e4@gmail.com> Message-ID: <75F4EE48-8F23-44B9-84E2-DD49D3EA0ABB@appisle.net> > On 26 Aug 2016, at 3:29 AM, Richmond wrote: > > Personally I find the teeny-weeny font size in the messageBox a bother: and I have had the font in the > scriptEditor set to 18 for the last 10 years. I?ll add that too as they should use the same font + size. From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Thu Aug 25 16:23:49 2016 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 16:23:49 -0400 Subject: [ ANN ] Release 8.1.0 RC-1 In-Reply-To: <82987A49-F296-4D77-AE63-17D17FF0F818@appisle.net> References: <82987A49-F296-4D77-AE63-17D17FF0F818@appisle.net> Message-ID: All I know, right now, is that the app crashes on startup. I haven't gotten much further than trying it in 8.0.2 and 8.1 rc1 On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 4:18 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > > > On 26 Aug 2016, at 6:15 AM, Mike Kerner > wrote: > > > > Rats. I found an ios crash that appears to be a regression from 8.0.2... > > Can you provide some more detail? We currently know about and will have a > fix for a crash using 64 bit simulators + tsNet. > > Cheers > > Monte > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From merakosp at gmail.com Thu Aug 25 16:27:51 2016 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 23:27:51 +0300 Subject: [ ANN ] Release 8.1.0 RC-1 In-Reply-To: References: <82987A49-F296-4D77-AE63-17D17FF0F818@appisle.net> Message-ID: Mike, you are probably affected by http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18261 On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 11:23 PM, Mike Kerner wrote: > All I know, right now, is that the app crashes on startup. I haven't > gotten much further than trying it in 8.0.2 and 8.1 rc1 > > On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 4:18 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > > > > > > On 26 Aug 2016, at 6:15 AM, Mike Kerner > > wrote: > > > > > > Rats. I found an ios crash that appears to be a regression from > 8.0.2... > > > > Can you provide some more detail? We currently know about and will have a > > fix for a crash using 64 bit simulators + tsNet. > > > > Cheers > > > > Monte > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From monte at appisle.net Thu Aug 25 16:29:22 2016 From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2016 06:29:22 +1000 Subject: [ ANN ] Release 8.1.0 RC-1 In-Reply-To: References: <82987A49-F296-4D77-AE63-17D17FF0F818@appisle.net> Message-ID: <0EC73C3D-D90C-4ADB-A15E-63BF422806F4@appisle.net> > On 26 Aug 2016, at 6:23 AM, Mike Kerner wrote: > > All I know, right now, is that the app crashes on startup. I haven't > gotten much further than trying it in 8.0.2 and 8.1 rc1 In the simulator or on a device? From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Aug 25 16:33:14 2016 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 13:33:14 -0700 Subject: [ ANN ] Release 8.1.0 RC-1 In-Reply-To: <75F4EE48-8F23-44B9-84E2-DD49D3EA0ABB@appisle.net> References: <75F4EE48-8F23-44B9-84E2-DD49D3EA0ABB@appisle.net> Message-ID: Monte Goulding wrote: >> On 26 Aug 2016, at 3:29 AM, Richmond wrote: >> >> Personally I find the teeny-weeny font size in the messageBox a >> bother: and I have had the font in the scriptEditor set to 18 >> for the last 10 years. > > I?ll add that too as they should use the same font + size. Thanks, Monte. Any chance we can have the scriptTextFont and scriptTextSize global properties reinstated as the mechanism for that? http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11596 The IDE used to support them, and in my tests it seems they still work well once they're set, as least as far as holding their values during the session. In addition to the Message Box and other IDE elements, having one-stop shopping for those makes life so much easier for third-party tools who want to display script-related things in the user's chosen font and size. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From monte at appisle.net Thu Aug 25 16:39:55 2016 From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2016 06:39:55 +1000 Subject: [ ANN ] Release 8.1.0 RC-1 In-Reply-To: References: <75F4EE48-8F23-44B9-84E2-DD49D3EA0ABB@appisle.net> Message-ID: <8DC6DD15-87B1-4476-9F15-3D24F66E8CE1@appisle.net> > On 26 Aug 2016, at 6:33 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > Any chance we can have the scriptTextFont and scriptTextSize global properties reinstated as the mechanism for that? If they are deprecated they may be removed so it might be time to move any code that depends on these to use revIDEGetPreference. Cheers Monte From merakosp at gmail.com Thu Aug 25 16:41:45 2016 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 23:41:45 +0300 Subject: [ ANN ] Release 8.1.0 RC-1 In-Reply-To: References: <75F4EE48-8F23-44B9-84E2-DD49D3EA0ABB@appisle.net> Message-ID: Could we probably set them on startup? put revIDEGetPreference("cScriptEditor,editor,font") into scriptTextFont put revIDEGetPreference("cScriptEditor,editor,fontSize") into scriptTextSize On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 11:33 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Monte Goulding wrote: > >> On 26 Aug 2016, at 3:29 AM, Richmond wrote: > >> > >> Personally I find the teeny-weeny font size in the messageBox a > >> bother: and I have had the font in the scriptEditor set to 18 > >> for the last 10 years. > > > > I?ll add that too as they should use the same font + size. > > Thanks, Monte. > > Any chance we can have the scriptTextFont and scriptTextSize global > properties reinstated as the mechanism for that? > > http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11596 > > The IDE used to support them, and in my tests it seems they still work > well once they're set, as least as far as holding their values during the > session. > > In addition to the Message Box and other IDE elements, having one-stop > shopping for those makes life so much easier for third-party tools who want > to display script-related things in the user's chosen font and size. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From monte at appisle.net Thu Aug 25 16:45:09 2016 From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2016 06:45:09 +1000 Subject: [ ANN ] Release 8.1.0 RC-1 In-Reply-To: References: <75F4EE48-8F23-44B9-84E2-DD49D3EA0ABB@appisle.net> Message-ID: > On 26 Aug 2016, at 6:41 AM, panagiotis merakos wrote: > > Could we probably set them on startup? > > put revIDEGetPreference("cScriptEditor,editor,font") into scriptTextFont > put revIDEGetPreference("cScriptEditor,editor,fontSize") into scriptTextSize Something would need to subscribe to idePropertyChanged for those properties and update them but yes we could. However, if they are deprecated we would only be perpetuating their use by ensuring they are right. If someone wants to undeprecate them then most definitely this should be done but until then it would probably be better to recommend people use revIDEGetPreference. Cheers Monte From monte at appisle.net Thu Aug 25 16:49:06 2016 From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2016 06:49:06 +1000 Subject: [ ANN ] Release 8.1.0 RC-1 In-Reply-To: <8DC6DD15-87B1-4476-9F15-3D24F66E8CE1@appisle.net> References: <75F4EE48-8F23-44B9-84E2-DD49D3EA0ABB@appisle.net> <8DC6DD15-87B1-4476-9F15-3D24F66E8CE1@appisle.net> Message-ID: <66C7842D-67A6-4DD2-95FB-C7996B977E14@appisle.net> > On 26 Aug 2016, at 6:39 AM, Monte Goulding wrote: > > If they are deprecated they may be removed so it might be time to move any code that depends on these to use revIDEGetPreference. After reading the report I?m not really sure if they are deprecated or not? From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Aug 25 17:03:26 2016 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 14:03:26 -0700 Subject: [ ANN ] Release 8.1.0 RC-1 In-Reply-To: <66C7842D-67A6-4DD2-95FB-C7996B977E14@appisle.net> References: <66C7842D-67A6-4DD2-95FB-C7996B977E14@appisle.net> Message-ID: <1506f7c7-c272-3e4c-2550-ee401c9a0c57@fourthworld.com> Monte Goulding wrote: > Richard wrote: >> Any chance we can have the scriptTextFont and scriptTextSize global >> properties reinstated as the mechanism for that? >> >> http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11596 > > After reading the report I?m not really sure if they are deprecated > or not? They worked in the MC IDE, and IIRC in the Revolution IDE for a while as well. Maybe what happened is that during the major Script Editor overhaul someone who wasn't familiar with the long history of those HyperTalk properties replaced them with scripted alternatives. I like Panos' suggestion: > Could we probably set them on startup? > > put revIDEGetPreference("cScriptEditor,editor,font") into scriptTextFont > put revIDEGetPreference("cScriptEditor,editor,fontSize") into scriptTextSize You'll also want to use those properties for any getters as well, given that they are global and perhaps settable by third-party plugins. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From monte at appisle.net Thu Aug 25 17:14:49 2016 From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2016 07:14:49 +1000 Subject: [ ANN ] Release 8.1.0 RC-1 In-Reply-To: <1506f7c7-c272-3e4c-2550-ee401c9a0c57@fourthworld.com> References: <66C7842D-67A6-4DD2-95FB-C7996B977E14@appisle.net> <1506f7c7-c272-3e4c-2550-ee401c9a0c57@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: > On 26 Aug 2016, at 7:03 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > You'll also want to use those properties for any getters as well, given that they are global and perhaps settable by third-party plugins. Here?s where the problems settle in. By using revIDESetPreference anything that has subscribed to the preference change will get a message. If someone sets that property then they won?t... From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Aug 25 17:40:00 2016 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 14:40:00 -0700 Subject: [ ANN ] Release 8.1.0 RC-1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3f640c48-8598-58e6-723d-b7960bf6e5e0@fourthworld.com> Monte Goulding wrote: >> On 26 Aug 2016, at 7:03 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> >> You'll also want to use those properties for any getters as well, >> given that they are global and perhaps settable by third-party >> plugins. > > Here?s where the problems settle in. By using revIDESetPreference > anything that has subscribed to the preference change will get a > message. If someone sets that property then they won?t... In the current implementation that's true, hence my request. On the other hand, no one else seems to mind that those global properties are not being used, so if it's easier to ditch the props and use the scripted function it won't be the end of the world. But if you do that, please add entries for the alternate functions, and include links in the Dict entries for scriptTextFont and scriptTextSize so anyone looking for those will know where to go. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From monte at appisle.net Thu Aug 25 17:47:53 2016 From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2016 07:47:53 +1000 Subject: [ ANN ] Release 8.1.0 RC-1 In-Reply-To: <3f640c48-8598-58e6-723d-b7960bf6e5e0@fourthworld.com> References: <3f640c48-8598-58e6-723d-b7960bf6e5e0@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <33DE0081-790E-49C5-B36F-A90C7AA50001@appisle.net> > On 26 Aug 2016, at 7:40 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > Monte Goulding wrote: > > >> On 26 Aug 2016, at 7:03 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > >> > >> You'll also want to use those properties for any getters as well, > >> given that they are global and perhaps settable by third-party > >> plugins. > > > > Here?s where the problems settle in. By using revIDESetPreference > > anything that has subscribed to the preference change will get a > > message. If someone sets that property then they won?t... > > In the current implementation that's true, hence my request. > > On the other hand, no one else seems to mind that those global properties are not being used, so if it's easier to ditch the props and use the scripted function it won't be the end of the world. > > But if you do that, please add entries for the alternate functions, and include links in the Dict entries for scriptTextFont and scriptTextSize so anyone looking for those will know where to go. Yes indeed? there?s *lots* of undocumented APIs in the IDE. At the moment as we go we are adding lcdoc comments to public APIs. At some point we will have done that enough to parse IDE libraries and generate an IDE dictionary. It is, however, a long row to hoe. Cheers Monte From jeff at siphonophore.com Thu Aug 25 18:47:51 2016 From: jeff at siphonophore.com (Jeff Reynolds) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 18:47:51 -0400 Subject: using windows playback via livecode 8 Message-ID: <716D1AAA-E239-4940-8742-6F30E1F02E79@siphonophore.com> Somehow i lost a week of emails there on the list replies! Jacque, I just got a pro 4 from the ms store here in bethesda on loan (if you go to a store they now have a loaner program for up to a month to try stuff out on a surface for free!). i downloaded LC8 and it is running fine, about to bring over some lc apps this weekend to test and start trying the video playback out. im guessing the 32bit comes turned on and perhaps you can switch it off some where or not load it to save space or memory perhaps. ill poke around and see if i can find anything in the settings. FYI the surface book looses the GPU if you detach the screen for mobile work so it basically really is back to being a surface 4 at that point for graphics processing (on the cpu) and it looses half the battery as well (the other half is in the base). you only get the larger screen. Ive not been impressed with the surface so far, its not anything as easy as using an ipad as a touch device for the regular interface stuff. sure it will work fine with a touch designed interface, but the screen response is a little spotty and not very comfortable to hold as a pad unit. it feels more like having a laptop that you can pull off the screen but not something you want to carry around like that and use a lot of the time like that. it is a swiss army knife, useful but not always so comfortable to carry or use... jeff > On 8/17/2016 1:02 PM, Mark Talluto wrote: > > FWIW, we have 2 Surface Pro 3 units here. We run LC 6 - LC 8 apps on > > them just fine. We have a number of school districts that have > > adopted them based on our suggestions and they are running our apps > > well. Everyone is using them as they come from Microsoft without > > modification to compatibility modes and such. Hope this helps...a > > little bit at least. > > Yes, it does, thanks very much. The user said someone "set up the > system" for her and she didn't want to change the settings. Maybe that > was the problem, if there's some setting that forbids fallback to > 32-bit. I have no idea what they changed, and she was a very naive user > who couldn't answer any questions. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Aug 25 18:56:06 2016 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2016 17:56:06 -0500 Subject: using windows playback via livecode 8 In-Reply-To: <716D1AAA-E239-4940-8742-6F30E1F02E79@siphonophore.com> References: <716D1AAA-E239-4940-8742-6F30E1F02E79@siphonophore.com> Message-ID: <6ced8c79-21a9-a309-b6b7-168f812e670c@hyperactivesw.com> Thanks very much for this, Jeff. The user said she fixed it but what she wrote was pretty much gibberish so we don't know what she did. Something about changing her browser to Chrome -- only this app doesn't use a browser at all. My guess is that, because some of the internet settings are under the IE properties, she changed something there but it isn't at all clear. Meanwhile, a few days later, we received another complaint from a Surface 2 user who also said they couldn't launch the app. We don't know what to tell him. I'm at a loss. Any insight would be appreciated. On 8/25/2016 5:47 PM, Jeff Reynolds wrote: > Somehow i lost a week of emails there on the list replies! > Jacque, > I just got a pro 4 from the ms store here in bethesda on loan (if you go to a store they now have a loaner program for up to a month to try stuff out on a surface for free!). i downloaded LC8 and it is running fine, about to bring over some lc apps this weekend to test and start trying the video playback out. im guessing the 32bit comes turned on and perhaps you can switch it off some where or not load it to save space or memory perhaps. ill poke around and see if i can find anything in the settings. > FYI the surface book looses the GPU if you detach the screen for mobile work so it basically really is back to being a surface 4 at that point for graphics processing (on the cpu) and it looses half the battery as well (the other half is in the base). you only get the larger screen. > Ive not been impressed with the surface so far, its not anything as easy as using an ipad as a touch device for the regular interface stuff. sure it will work fine with a touch designed interface, but the screen response is a little spotty and not very comfortable to hold as a pad unit. it feels more like having a laptop that you can pull off the screen but not something you want to carry around like that and use a lot of the time like that. it is a swiss army knife, useful but not always so comfortable to carry or use... > jeff > >> On 8/17/2016 1:02 PM, Mark Talluto wrote: >>> FWIW, we have 2 Surface Pro 3 units here. We run LC 6 - LC 8 apps on >>> them just fine. We have a number of school districts that have >>> adopted them based on our suggestions and they are running our apps >>> well. Everyone is using them as they come from Microsoft without >>> modification to compatibility modes and such. Hope this helps...a >>> little bit at least. >> >> Yes, it does, thanks very much. The user said someone "set up the >> system" for her and she didn't want to change the settings. Maybe that >> was the problem, if there's some setting that forbids fallback to >> 32-bit. I have no idea what they changed, and she was a very naive user >> who couldn't answer any questions. >> >> -- >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From blueback09 at gmail.com Fri Aug 26 01:58:13 2016 From: blueback09 at gmail.com (Matt Maier) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2016 08:58:13 +0300 Subject: Missing a chance In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yeah, nobody I talk to or read has ever heard of Livecode. One of the larger freelance developer recruiting websites doesn't even bother to ask anyone if they know Livecode, and I half suspect they had to google it before they answered my question. I'm not really looking forward to having to get developers trained up from scratch before they can work with me, but it is what it is. On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 11:01 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Richmond wrote: > > > On 25.08.2016 22:21, Richard Gaskin wrote: > >> Richmond wrote: > >> > >> > Livecode is so not here it makes me howl: > >> > > >> > https://elearningindustry.com/list-of-authoring-tools-part-1 > >> > https://elearningindustry.com/list-of-authoring-tools-part-2 > >> > https://elearningindustry.com/37-authoring-tools > >> > >> Yes, there are many thousands of tools lists across the web, and it's > >> always good to add LC to those when we come across them. > >> > >> But I don't understand the "howl" - was your nominating LC to that > >> one rejected? > > > > No my howl was because I shouldn't hgave to add LC: it should be one > > of the automatic authoring tools of choice. > > Why? > > We here on this list know LiveCode well, and we know that we can craft > excellent authoring tools with it. > > But unless we spread the word, how can we expect the word to be spread? > > Carpe diem! > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From runrevlist at cc-mail.nl Fri Aug 26 04:16:54 2016 From: runrevlist at cc-mail.nl (runrevlist at cc-mail.nl) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2016 10:16:54 +0200 Subject: unicode? troubles Message-ID: <6F7741A8-755E-47A2-A70F-E8C8BC811847@cc-mail.nl> Hi all, I have a strange problem which I can?t seem to solve. I put some tab delimited text in a field, each line is like openCard tab behaviour_1092_3 tab. Now I want to put 9 into item 5 of line 1 of this field. In all versions before 7 this works well. Unfortunately starting with version 7 and above things get weird and that?s why I suspect a unicode issue Instead of the 9 being put in item 5 of line 1, it gets put in item 2 of line 2. after putting 9 into item 5 of line 1 I get the following: put the number of items of line 1 - 2 put the number of items of line 2 - 4 put item 1 of line 2 - tab put item 2 of line 2 - 9 I find this very weird. How did the 9 end up in item 2 of line 1 when I explicitly put it into item 5 of line 1. What has changed. The same stack with the same code works great pre 7. I hope someone has an idea as I am stupefied. Thanks Claudi From pmbrig at gmail.com Fri Aug 26 09:29:31 2016 From: pmbrig at gmail.com (Peter M. Brigham) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2016 09:29:31 -0400 Subject: Strict is in; lax is out In-Reply-To: References: <151b46c5-3682-4e37-abec-b9dfdbb234e4@Spark> <156b35606a1-da4-866c@webprd-a12.mail.aol.com> <083c708b-5234-4135-8b80-ec086af56bbb@Spark> Message-ID: <5B98638F-172A-42B1-ADFF-CAF4E69A4D86@gmail.com> On Aug 22, 2016, at 3:16 PM, Mike Kerner wrote: > And long live synonyms. And beginning sentences or sentence fragments with > conjunctions. "This is the sort of English up with which I shall not put." -- Winston Churchill -- Peter Peter M. Brigham pmbrig at gmail.com From pmbrig at gmail.com Fri Aug 26 09:43:04 2016 From: pmbrig at gmail.com (Peter M. Brigham) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2016 09:43:04 -0400 Subject: [TOT] Totally Off . . . In-Reply-To: References: <4ac71ea1-e5aa-a8c4-e71f-4c51b7a93b19@gmail.com> Message-ID: <06B75532-D11F-41F1-80DD-8AC766B82676@gmail.com> On Aug 23, 2016, at 6:49 AM, Richmond wrote: > My real book (The Complete . . . ) has labelled bookmarks going back to when I was gifted that book in 1999 at the UAE University in Al Ain, UAE, when they, overnight, trashed all their Mac computers and replaced them with IBM compats running Windows Me, and I had to get to grips with Toolbook, and remake lots and lots of HC stack as TB programs. > > These bookmarks are useful as they stop me having to spend donkey's ages trawling again. > > This would not really be possible with a pdf document. It should be possible without too much sweat and tears to pull the HTML version into LC, parse the text, and put it into a searchable and bookmarkable stack. -- Peter Peter M. Brigham pmbrig at gmail.com From warren at warrensweb.us Fri Aug 26 10:37:39 2016 From: warren at warrensweb.us (Warren Samples) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2016 09:37:39 -0500 Subject: [TOT] Totally Off . . . In-Reply-To: References: <4ac71ea1-e5aa-a8c4-e71f-4c51b7a93b19@gmail.com> Message-ID: <609a95b0-4b5a-6ae0-ffe4-21ef775964b8@warrensweb.us> On 08/23/2016 05:49 AM, Richmond wrote: > My real book (The Complete . . . ) has labelled bookmarks going back to > when I was gifted that book in 1999 at the UAE University in Al Ain, > UAE, when they, overnight, trashed all their Mac computers and replaced > them with IBM compats running Windows Me, and I had to get to grips with > Toolbook, and remake lots and lots of HC stack as TB programs. > > These bookmarks are useful as they stop me having to spend donkey's ages > trawling again. > > This would not really be possible with a pdf document. That may depend on your pdf reader and how it interacts with the particular pdf document. I downloaded the hypercard handbook from Lagi's link and in KDE's default pdf reader, Okular, I can search text and select and copy it and also set bookmarks. Works really well. Warren From htorrado at networkdreams.es Fri Aug 26 11:01:19 2016 From: htorrado at networkdreams.es (=?UTF-8?Q?Heriberto_Torrado_Gonz=c3=a1lez?=) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2016 17:01:19 +0200 Subject: Missing a chance In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44d571fd-151b-5575-9393-800c76a8a285@networkdreams.es> Well, in our business, we use livecode everyday. We're using livecode for our internal tools and to develop tools for our customers. Livecode is very powerful, but it is not very "popular" between coders and developers. If you are waiting to get a job like "livecode programer" on a big company, or find livecode developers on the market, then...bad news... You have to "create" your own developers with patience and time. I think that livecode is a really good tool if you have your own small business (like me), and you have a good relations with your customers. My customers doesn't want to know my development tools (livecode), they want solutions to their problems. But on the "big market"...People are looking for java, python, objetive-C, PHP, and .net projects...They know nothing about livecode. In my opinion: Runrev needs to spend more money in marketing, because this tool is really wonderful. We need a strong livecode community to bring livecode to the next level. Best PS: I'm not english speaker native. On 26/08/16 07:58, Matt Maier wrote: > Yeah, nobody I talk to or read has ever heard of Livecode. One of the > larger freelance developer recruiting websites doesn't even bother to ask > anyone if they know Livecode, and I half suspect they had to google it > before they answered my question. > > I'm not really looking forward to having to get developers trained up from > scratch before they can work with me, but it is what it is. > > On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 11:01 PM, Richard Gaskin > wrote: >> Richmond wrote: >> >>> On 25.08.2016 22:21, Richard Gaskin wrote: >>>> Richmond wrote: >>>> >>>>> Livecode is so not here it makes me howl: >>>>> >>>>> https://elearningindustry.com/list-of-authoring-tools-part-1 >>>>> https://elearningindustry.com/list-of-authoring-tools-part-2 >>>>> https://elearningindustry.com/37-authoring-tools >>>> Yes, there are many thousands of tools lists across the web, and it's >>>> always good to add LC to those when we come across them. >>>> >>>> But I don't understand the "howl" - was your nominating LC to that >>>> one rejected? >>> No my howl was because I shouldn't hgave to add LC: it should be one >>> of the automatic authoring tools of choice. >> Why? >> >> We here on this list know LiveCode well, and we know that we can craft >> excellent authoring tools with it. >> >> But unless we spread the word, how can we expect the word to be spread? >> >> Carpe diem! >> >> -- >> Richard Gaskin >> Fourth World Systems >> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web >> ____________________________________________________________________ >> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From gbojsza at gmail.com Fri Aug 26 11:17:11 2016 From: gbojsza at gmail.com (Glen Bojsza) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2016 11:17:11 -0400 Subject: Conference Videos Message-ID: Hello, I was wondering if anyone knows where (or when) the Conference videos for the people that subscribed are available for download? The presentations were released but as far as I can tell the videos have not and you need to watch them online. regards, Glen From revolution at jaedworks.com Fri Aug 26 12:11:01 2016 From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2016 09:11:01 -0700 Subject: unicode? troubles In-Reply-To: <6F7741A8-755E-47A2-A70F-E8C8BC811847@cc-mail.nl> References: <6F7741A8-755E-47A2-A70F-E8C8BC811847@cc-mail.nl> Message-ID: Have you set the itemDelimiter to tab, or is it the default comma? Can you post your code, along with the contents of the field before and after? At 10:16 AM +0200 8/26/2016, runrevlist at cc-mail.nl wrote: >Hi all, > >I have a strange problem which I can't seem to solve. >I put some tab delimited text in a field, each line is like openCard >tab behaviour_1092_3 tab. > >Now I want to put 9 into item 5 of line 1 of this field. >In all versions before 7 this works well. >Unfortunately starting with version 7 and above things get weird and >that's why I suspect a unicode issue >Instead of the 9 being put in item 5 of line 1, it gets put in item >2 of line 2. > >after putting 9 into item 5 of line 1 I get the following: > >put the number of items of line 1 - 2 >put the number of items of line 2 - 4 >put item 1 of line 2 - tab >put item 2 of line 2 - 9 > >I find this very weird. How did the 9 end up in item 2 of line 1 >when I explicitly put it into item 5 of line 1. >What has changed. The same stack with the same code works great pre 7. > >I hope someone has an idea as I am stupefied. > >Thanks > Claudi >_______________________________________________ >use-livecode mailing list >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode -- jeanne a. e. devoto livecode at jaedworks.com From ali.lloyd at livecode.com Fri Aug 26 12:37:58 2016 From: ali.lloyd at livecode.com (Ali Lloyd) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2016 16:37:58 +0000 Subject: unicode? troubles In-Reply-To: References: <6F7741A8-755E-47A2-A70F-E8C8BC811847@cc-mail.nl> Message-ID: Also what version are you using? I vaguely recall a similar issue having been fixed. On Fri, 26 Aug 2016 at 17:11, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote: > Have you set the itemDelimiter to tab, or is it the default comma? > > Can you post your code, along with the contents of the field before and > after? > > > At 10:16 AM +0200 8/26/2016, runrevlist at cc-mail.nl wrote: > >Hi all, > > > >I have a strange problem which I can't seem to solve. > >I put some tab delimited text in a field, each line is like openCard > >tab behaviour_1092_3 tab. > > > >Now I want to put 9 into item 5 of line 1 of this field. > >In all versions before 7 this works well. > >Unfortunately starting with version 7 and above things get weird and > >that's why I suspect a unicode issue > >Instead of the 9 being put in item 5 of line 1, it gets put in item > >2 of line 2. > > > >after putting 9 into item 5 of line 1 I get the following: > > > >put the number of items of line 1 - 2 > >put the number of items of line 2 - 4 > >put item 1 of line 2 - tab > >put item 2 of line 2 - 9 > > > >I find this very weird. How did the 9 end up in item 2 of line 1 > >when I explicitly put it into item 5 of line 1. > >What has changed. The same stack with the same code works great pre 7. > > > >I hope someone has an idea as I am stupefied. > > > >Thanks > > Claudi > >_______________________________________________ > >use-livecode mailing list > >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >subscription preferences: > >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > -- > jeanne a. e. devoto > livecode at jaedworks.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From merakosp at gmail.com Fri Aug 26 13:47:41 2016 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2016 18:47:41 +0100 Subject: unicode? troubles In-Reply-To: References: <6F7741A8-755E-47A2-A70F-E8C8BC811847@cc-mail.nl> Message-ID: Maybe this one? http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17590 On 26 Aug 2016 17:38, "Ali Lloyd" wrote: > Also what version are you using? I vaguely recall a similar issue having > been fixed. > > On Fri, 26 Aug 2016 at 17:11, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto < > revolution at jaedworks.com> > wrote: > > > Have you set the itemDelimiter to tab, or is it the default comma? > > > > Can you post your code, along with the contents of the field before and > > after? > > > > > > At 10:16 AM +0200 8/26/2016, runrevlist at cc-mail.nl wrote: > > >Hi all, > > > > > >I have a strange problem which I can't seem to solve. > > >I put some tab delimited text in a field, each line is like openCard > > >tab behaviour_1092_3 tab. > > > > > >Now I want to put 9 into item 5 of line 1 of this field. > > >In all versions before 7 this works well. > > >Unfortunately starting with version 7 and above things get weird and > > >that's why I suspect a unicode issue > > >Instead of the 9 being put in item 5 of line 1, it gets put in item > > >2 of line 2. > > > > > >after putting 9 into item 5 of line 1 I get the following: > > > > > >put the number of items of line 1 - 2 > > >put the number of items of line 2 - 4 > > >put item 1 of line 2 - tab > > >put item 2 of line 2 - 9 > > > > > >I find this very weird. How did the 9 end up in item 2 of line 1 > > >when I explicitly put it into item 5 of line 1. > > >What has changed. The same stack with the same code works great pre 7. > > > > > >I hope someone has an idea as I am stupefied. > > > > > >Thanks > > > Claudi > > >_______________________________________________ > > >use-livecode mailing list > > >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > >subscription preferences: > > >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > -- > > jeanne a. e. devoto > > livecode at jaedworks.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Fri Aug 26 14:40:02 2016 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2016 21:40:02 +0300 Subject: Underneath Message-ID: <8eb95f4b-e606-d3f4-7f10-0d42d423bc33@gmail.com> So, I have an image, let's call it "P". I also have a number of "tiles" constituting a grid on a card. One of those tiles is called image "xPtw". Now the script in image "P" goes something like this: on mouseDown grab me end mouseDown on mouseUp *--pseudocode* if the name of the object *underneath* this image contains "P" then do nothing else send image "P" somewhere else end if *--end pseudocode* end mouseUp and I'm looking for help. Richmond. From revolution at jaedworks.com Fri Aug 26 15:15:17 2016 From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2016 12:15:17 -0700 Subject: Underneath In-Reply-To: <8eb95f4b-e606-d3f4-7f10-0d42d423bc33@gmail.com> References: <8eb95f4b-e606-d3f4-7f10-0d42d423bc33@gmail.com> Message-ID: At 9:40 PM +0300 8/26/2016, Richmond wrote: >on mouseUp >*--pseudocode* > if the name of the object *underneath* this image contains "P" then > do nothing > else > send image "P" somewhere else > end if >*--end pseudocode* >end mouseUp > >and I'm looking for help. I think you'll need to test whether the pointer is within each control: repeat with x = 1 to the number of controls if within(control x, the mouseLoc) AND ("P" is not in the short name of control x) then send image "P" somewhere else exit repeat -- presumably you only want the first one end if end mouseUp From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Fri Aug 26 15:24:46 2016 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (mwieder) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2016 12:24:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [ ANN ] Release 8.1.0 RC-1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1472239486422-4707876.post@n4.nabble.com> (using Nabble since I'm still banned from the use-list) 8.1.0-rc-1 crashes pretty regularly and unexpectedly on me on osx, so I'm reverting to the latest dp release. Crashed Thread: 0 Dispatch queue: com.apple.main-thread Exception Type: EXC_BAD_ACCESS (SIGSEGV) Exception Codes: KERN_INVALID_ADDRESS at 0x0000000000000000 Exception Note: EXC_CORPSE_NOTIFY VM Regions Near 0: --> __TEXT 0000000000001000-0000000000af1000 [ 10.9M] r-x/rwx SM=COW /Applications/LiveCode Community 8.1.0 (rc 1).app/Contents/MacOS/LiveCode-Community Thread 0 Crashed:: Dispatch queue: com.apple.main-thread 0 com.runrev.livecode 0x00045196 0x1000 + 278934 1 com.runrev.livecode 0x000ffe91 0x1000 + 1044113 2 com.runrev.livecode 0x000ffdf9 0x1000 + 1043961 3 com.runrev.livecode 0x00252349 0x1000 + 2429769 4 com.runrev.livecode 0x0024d3bc 0x1000 + 2409404 5 com.runrev.livecode 0x0013a319 0x1000 + 1282841 6 com.runrev.livecode 0x00216f73 0x1000 + 2187123 7 com.runrev.livecode 0x000684e3 0x1000 + 423139 8 com.runrev.livecode 0x0006865f 0x1000 + 423519 9 com.runrev.livecode 0x000c680c 0x1000 + 808972 10 com.runrev.livecode 0x000c68b3 0x1000 + 809139 + turtles all the way down. ----- -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/ANN-Release-8-1-0-RC-1-tp4707812p4707876.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From paul at researchware.com Fri Aug 26 15:28:01 2016 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2016 15:28:01 -0400 Subject: Looking for Datagrid table printing code... Message-ID: <57C09841.5020300@researchware.com> I have a data grid that is a table of data many columns wide by many rows high. I have a generalized printing stack that fetches all the printer properties and prepares a card the size and orientation of the selected paper in the printer and page setups. It provides a rectangle (tPageRect) that is the area available to the contents of the page (after paper margins, etc.) Does anyone have some code that looks at the column widths (and visibility) and row height and all the other geometry of a datagrid to determine dgHScroll and dgVScroll values as well as resizing the rect of the datagrid for each "page" to print with an whole number of columns and rows for each printed page? If you have such code, would you be willing to share it (or even sell it for small money - I can't afford much)? The basics are not to hard, but fussing with border widths and the widths of row and column lines and other "fudge factors" to make it pixel-perfect is the icing on the cake I am looking for (if someone has done it). From merakosp at gmail.com Fri Aug 26 15:41:41 2016 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2016 22:41:41 +0300 Subject: [ ANN ] Release 8.1.0 RC-1 In-Reply-To: <1472239486422-4707876.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1472239486422-4707876.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: @Mark Can you please submit a bug report, and attach the crash log(s)? We plan to do a RC2 release late next week, so if what you see is a RC1 regression we will have to fix it for RC2. PS: A sample stack/pattern/recipe would be helpful as well On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 10:24 PM, mwieder wrote: > (using Nabble since I'm still banned from the use-list) > > 8.1.0-rc-1 crashes pretty regularly and unexpectedly on me on osx, so I'm > reverting to the latest dp release. > > Crashed Thread: 0 Dispatch queue: com.apple.main-thread > > Exception Type: EXC_BAD_ACCESS (SIGSEGV) > Exception Codes: KERN_INVALID_ADDRESS at 0x0000000000000000 > Exception Note: EXC_CORPSE_NOTIFY > > VM Regions Near 0: > --> > __TEXT 0000000000001000-0000000000af1000 [ 10.9M] > r-x/rwx SM=COW /Applications/LiveCode Community 8.1.0 (rc > 1).app/Contents/MacOS/LiveCode-Community > > Thread 0 Crashed:: Dispatch queue: com.apple.main-thread > 0 com.runrev.livecode 0x00045196 0x1000 + 278934 > 1 com.runrev.livecode 0x000ffe91 0x1000 + 1044113 > 2 com.runrev.livecode 0x000ffdf9 0x1000 + 1043961 > 3 com.runrev.livecode 0x00252349 0x1000 + 2429769 > 4 com.runrev.livecode 0x0024d3bc 0x1000 + 2409404 > 5 com.runrev.livecode 0x0013a319 0x1000 + 1282841 > 6 com.runrev.livecode 0x00216f73 0x1000 + 2187123 > 7 com.runrev.livecode 0x000684e3 0x1000 + 423139 > 8 com.runrev.livecode 0x0006865f 0x1000 + 423519 > 9 com.runrev.livecode 0x000c680c 0x1000 + 808972 > 10 com.runrev.livecode 0x000c68b3 0x1000 + 809139 > > + turtles all the way down. > > > > > > ----- > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > -- > View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution. > 278305.n4.nabble.com/ANN-Release-8-1-0-RC-1-tp4707812p4707876.html > Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Fri Aug 26 15:45:53 2016 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2016 22:45:53 +0300 Subject: Underneath In-Reply-To: References: <8eb95f4b-e606-d3f4-7f10-0d42d423bc33@gmail.com> Message-ID: Which should I do first? 1. Say Thank you for your help 2. Be amazed that the Wonderful Jeanne A. E. DeVoto has resurfaced after a very, very long time in purdah? Lobve, Richmond. On 26.08.2016 22:15, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote: > At 9:40 PM +0300 8/26/2016, Richmond wrote: >> on mouseUp >> *--pseudocode* >> if the name of the object *underneath* this image contains "P" then >> do nothing >> else >> send image "P" somewhere else >> end if >> *--end pseudocode* >> end mouseUp >> >> and I'm looking for help. > > > I think you'll need to test whether the pointer is within each control: > > repeat with x = 1 to the number of controls > if within(control x, the mouseLoc) AND ("P" is not in the short > name of control x) then > send image "P" somewhere else > exit repeat -- presumably you only want the first one > end if > end mouseUp > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Fri Aug 26 15:49:11 2016 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2016 22:49:11 +0300 Subject: [ ANN ] Release 8.1.0 RC-1 In-Reply-To: <1472239486422-4707876.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1472239486422-4707876.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <990701be-9842-02a1-be9f-b1165437a1c3@gmail.com> Are you really banned from the Use-List? That's amazing, did you, as they suggest in that lovely film "Educating Rita", 'bugger the bursar'? As someone who has been banned twice, and, arguably, should have been banned a fair few other times, I really wonder what did that. Mark, you have just been awarded, for whatever it's worth (not much) the Richmond Seal of Approval. Love, Richmond. On 26.08.2016 22:24, mwieder wrote: > (using Nabble since I'm still banned from the use-list) > > 8.1.0-rc-1 crashes pretty regularly and unexpectedly on me on osx, so I'm > reverting to the latest dp release. > > Crashed Thread: 0 Dispatch queue: com.apple.main-thread > > Exception Type: EXC_BAD_ACCESS (SIGSEGV) > Exception Codes: KERN_INVALID_ADDRESS at 0x0000000000000000 > Exception Note: EXC_CORPSE_NOTIFY > > VM Regions Near 0: > --> > __TEXT 0000000000001000-0000000000af1000 [ 10.9M] > r-x/rwx SM=COW /Applications/LiveCode Community 8.1.0 (rc > 1).app/Contents/MacOS/LiveCode-Community > > Thread 0 Crashed:: Dispatch queue: com.apple.main-thread > 0 com.runrev.livecode 0x00045196 0x1000 + 278934 > 1 com.runrev.livecode 0x000ffe91 0x1000 + 1044113 > 2 com.runrev.livecode 0x000ffdf9 0x1000 + 1043961 > 3 com.runrev.livecode 0x00252349 0x1000 + 2429769 > 4 com.runrev.livecode 0x0024d3bc 0x1000 + 2409404 > 5 com.runrev.livecode 0x0013a319 0x1000 + 1282841 > 6 com.runrev.livecode 0x00216f73 0x1000 + 2187123 > 7 com.runrev.livecode 0x000684e3 0x1000 + 423139 > 8 com.runrev.livecode 0x0006865f 0x1000 + 423519 > 9 com.runrev.livecode 0x000c680c 0x1000 + 808972 > 10 com.runrev.livecode 0x000c68b3 0x1000 + 809139 > > + turtles all the way down. > > > > > > ----- From runrevlist at cc-mail.nl Fri Aug 26 16:58:31 2016 From: runrevlist at cc-mail.nl (runrevlist at cc-mail.nl) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2016 22:58:31 +0200 Subject: unicode? troubles In-Reply-To: References: <6F7741A8-755E-47A2-A70F-E8C8BC811847@cc-mail.nl> Message-ID: <16F79283-13E9-4B42-865E-D7E20E25EB41@cc-mail.nl> I have been using this stack for years. I started working on it since runrev version 2.5 actually and I was working on something similar even in hypercard. (how the years pass by) Anyway, it?s a tool that helps me analyse stacks and code. For one thing, it gives me a tree view of all messages and all the handlers they initiate, amongst others. Extremely useful. Really, I can?t program without it. I just tried to find out which version of livecode exactly, started messing things up. I didn?t program for a while and lately I bought a ?newer?, a 2011 model, iMac, running ?. el capitain and my new indy license. So to test I fired up my older iMac which has older versions of livecode and is running mountain lion Guess what the stack even worked with version 7.1 of livecode and mountain lion. No problem. There is a problem with version 8 of livecode since the file/location/format of the dictionairie has changed which I need to get all reserved names and the names of all messages. But ok I am figuring that out. (it?s a sqlLight file now) So apparently the culprit is el capitain and not livecode. I still need a solution because it?s messing up my tree view and brakes my tool. If anybody knows a solution, please help me out. In the mean time, if I find a solution, I?ll sure post it. Thanks, Claudi I just don?t get what has changed. Like I wrote > On 26 Aug 2016, at 18:37, Ali Lloyd wrote: > > Also what version are you using? I vaguely recall a similar issue having > been fixed. > > On Fri, 26 Aug 2016 at 17:11, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto > wrote: > >> Have you set the itemDelimiter to tab, or is it the default comma? >> >> Can you post your code, along with the contents of the field before and >> after? >> >> >> At 10:16 AM +0200 8/26/2016, runrevlist at cc-mail.nl wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I have a strange problem which I can't seem to solve. >>> I put some tab delimited text in a field, each line is like openCard >>> tab behaviour_1092_3 tab. >>> >>> Now I want to put 9 into item 5 of line 1 of this field. >>> In all versions before 7 this works well. >>> Unfortunately starting with version 7 and above things get weird and >>> that's why I suspect a unicode issue >>> Instead of the 9 being put in item 5 of line 1, it gets put in item >>> 2 of line 2. >>> >>> after putting 9 into item 5 of line 1 I get the following: >>> >>> put the number of items of line 1 - 2 >>> put the number of items of line 2 - 4 >>> put item 1 of line 2 - tab >>> put item 2 of line 2 - 9 >>> >>> I find this very weird. How did the 9 end up in item 2 of line 1 >>> when I explicitly put it into item 5 of line 1. >>> What has changed. The same stack with the same code works great pre 7. >>> >>> I hope someone has an idea as I am stupefied. >>> >>> Thanks >>> Claudi >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> -- >> jeanne a. e. devoto >> livecode at jaedworks.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Fri Aug 26 17:27:36 2016 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2016 00:27:36 +0300 Subject: Underneath In-Reply-To: References: <8eb95f4b-e606-d3f4-7f10-0d42d423bc33@gmail.com> Message-ID: <69b37617-eccd-2fcd-fc42-7634c1806baa@gmail.com> This doesn't seem to work because this cycles through ALL the controls, and, of course, the object being dragged is also a control. Richmond. On 26.08.2016 22:15, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote: > if within(control x, the mouseLoc) AND ("P" is not in the short name > of control x) then From brahma at hindu.org Fri Aug 26 17:54:17 2016 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2016 21:54:17 +0000 Subject: OT: Images for Mobile Message-ID: I'm trying to come up with an overall algorithm for processing many images for mobile. Use case is to take 100's of preselected images and run bulk actions to get them all to the size we want. Initially we save to max image quality and then post process with imageMagick and MozJpeg to optimize file sizes. FYI: this has worked in the past? there is a lower limit to the original size before the optimization starts to degrade the image? but we manage that by setting do not re-size/do not optimize conditions for smaller images, where the file size already fits below our target maximum. But I am interested in other's experience for the longer term as to what you think works and what you need in your UX. given these assumptions a) the top and bottom of Landscape images contain no significant elements b) the left and right sides of portrait images contain no significant elements c) we are looking at a crop that goes full screen, d) you don't want to generate 5 different possible versions of any one image to package in your apps. e) Your "eye candy" team of UX reviewers are very, very forgiving of quality differences and fully appreciate the file size issues (i.e. minute improvements in sharpness and clarity do not warrant keeping a 1.5MB version of the file for mobile when you can put a 250KB file right next to it an you can barely see any difference. ) Then to work in both 16 X 9 phones or 3 X 4 Tablets (with all other Android rects being ignored for the moment) one simple algorithm is: process all images to 3X4 or 4X3 and, then, using Fullscreen show all, these will center "everywhere" and fill "everywhere" with some areas top and bottom or left and right appearing and disappearing depending on the screen/orientation. Where your livecode placement scripts always puts these images at the card loc. (centered) 1X minimum Portrait: 552w x 736h # left and right edges hidden on 9 X 16 device in portrait orientation Landscape: 736w x 552h # top and bottom hidden on 16 X 9 devices in landscape orientation. 2X Portrait: 818w X 1472h Landscape: 1472w x 1104 Setting aside for now the merits of the different Fullscreenmode options (we use ShowAll because of our fixed design layouts, but of course other use cases may do better with, exactFit or noBorder? ), I am just curious if you have decided, in the long run to keep your entire repository at 2 X or 1 X for the majority of your use cases and what rects you are targeting for general processing. What do you do? Brahmanathaswami From revolution at jaedworks.com Fri Aug 26 17:59:07 2016 From: revolution at jaedworks.com (Jeanne A. E. DeVoto) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2016 14:59:07 -0700 Subject: Underneath In-Reply-To: <69b37617-eccd-2fcd-fc42-7634c1806baa@gmail.com> References: <8eb95f4b-e606-d3f4-7f10-0d42d423bc33@gmail.com> <69b37617-eccd-2fcd-fc42-7634c1806baa@gmail.com> Message-ID: At 12:27 AM +0300 8/27/2016, Richmond wrote: >This doesn't seem to work because this cycles through ALL the >controls, and, of course, >the object being dragged is also a control. Ah. Forgot about that. You'll need to add a condition: if within(control x, the mouseLoc) \ AND ("P" is not in the short name of control x) AND (the ID of the target is not the ID of control x) then From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Fri Aug 26 18:01:55 2016 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2016 01:01:55 +0300 Subject: Underneath In-Reply-To: References: <8eb95f4b-e606-d3f4-7f10-0d42d423bc33@gmail.com> <69b37617-eccd-2fcd-fc42-7634c1806baa@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1facb27c-b1a7-eda4-6cd7-15fd03a3e603@gmail.com> Thank you very much. Richmond. On 27.08.2016 00:59, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote: > At 12:27 AM +0300 8/27/2016, Richmond wrote: >> This doesn't seem to work because this cycles through ALL the >> controls, and, of course, >> the object being dragged is also a control. > > > Ah. Forgot about that. You'll need to add a condition: > > if within(control x, the mouseLoc) \ > AND ("P" is not in the short name of control x) > AND (the ID of the target is not the ID of control x) then > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Aug 26 19:23:57 2016 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2016 23:23:57 +0000 Subject: Missing a chance In-Reply-To: <44d571fd-151b-5575-9393-800c76a8a285@networkdreams.es> References: <44d571fd-151b-5575-9393-800c76a8a285@networkdreams.es> Message-ID: As I have mentioned before in such threads, large companies need to consider a number of factors when working with custom software solutions, not the least of which is being able to find another developer who can code in the same environment as the one who drove off a bridge, or got hit by a meteor. The LC developer base is nowhere near being able to provide that security, and IMHO will never be. It has nothing to do with what is the better tool. "Better" is a relative term, and a tool for what is the question begged. Can you write a stable, robust business application in Livecode? Absolutely! How many of us can do that? Some small percentage of us I think. How many of us have the time to devote to doing that? Some smaller percentage methinks. I think that like Apple, the worst thing RunRev can do is try to be something they are not, or will never be perceived as being. Livecode is not a competing product to Objective C or C++. It's a different animal altogether. It's a Rapid Application Development Environment, and the final compiled product is decidedly NOT what a typical binary executable is. Not does it need to be. There are no hobbyist C++ developers (who produce useful applications/utilities that is). You are all in, or else you are wasting time and resources to even get started. Livecode however can be taken up by nearly anyone capable of piecing together UI objects, and making them do what they want. In summary, LC is an application constructor set. Lots of big prefab pieces that can be glommed together for a given task. C++ and other variants are like a building supply warehouse complete with all the tools you would ever need to build almost anything. MHO Bob S On Aug 26, 2016, at 08:01 , Heriberto Torrado Gonz?lez > wrote: My customers doesn't want to know my development tools (livecode), they want solutions to their problems. But on the "big market"...People are looking for java, python, objetive-C, PHP, and .net projects...They know nothing about livecode. From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Aug 26 19:25:02 2016 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2016 23:25:02 +0000 Subject: Very OT - Bad pun In-Reply-To: <17D5B7DA-CC3B-4549-9B6D-1DC5CDA2CE4E@gmail.com> References: <677062E1-58F7-48D7-A52E-A37CCF6E7210@jerrydaniels.com> <0E429C81-BBBC-4D3D-8649-7581230F2BDF@jerrydaniels.com> <99980660-7B77-4A4D-906B-ED790D9C2519@appisle.net> <1465669282569-4705678.post@n4.nabble.com> <69AA4C74-4E9C-40DD-A10F-5E69C73619AD@hindu.org> <4E3B0BCA-2908-41D7-8FA5-DDF0DA95E937@iotecdigital.com> <17D5B7DA-CC3B-4549-9B6D-1DC5CDA2CE4E@gmail.com> Message-ID: <527790C8-7298-4F26-B55A-140E44923D81@iotecdigital.com> Isn't that a steak sauce? Bob S On Aug 25, 2016, at 08:28 , David V Glasgow > wrote: I use to live in Leicestershire ? On 25 Aug 2016, at 4:25 pm, Bob Sneidar > wrote: Not even the French could pronounce a word so different from how it is spelled. (I'm half French so I can make fun of us). Bob S From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sat Aug 27 04:22:59 2016 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2016 11:22:59 +0300 Subject: Underneath In-Reply-To: References: <8eb95f4b-e606-d3f4-7f10-0d42d423bc33@gmail.com> <69b37617-eccd-2fcd-fc42-7634c1806baa@gmail.com> Message-ID: <0d548254-66bc-1d4a-6155-fe529a1ea49b@gmail.com> I'm obviously getting something rather wrong, so I have uploaded something here as explaining things without a sample stack and a pretty picture is well-nigh impossible: http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=27837 Richmond. On 27.08.2016 00:59, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote: > At 12:27 AM +0300 8/27/2016, Richmond wrote: >> This doesn't seem to work because this cycles through ALL the >> controls, and, of course, >> the object being dragged is also a control. > > > Ah. Forgot about that. You'll need to add a condition: > > if within(control x, the mouseLoc) \ > AND ("P" is not in the short name of control x) > AND (the ID of the target is not the ID of control x) then > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sat Aug 27 04:24:29 2016 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2016 11:24:29 +0300 Subject: Very OT - Bad pun In-Reply-To: <527790C8-7298-4F26-B55A-140E44923D81@iotecdigital.com> References: <677062E1-58F7-48D7-A52E-A37CCF6E7210@jerrydaniels.com> <0E429C81-BBBC-4D3D-8649-7581230F2BDF@jerrydaniels.com> <99980660-7B77-4A4D-906B-ED790D9C2519@appisle.net> <1465669282569-4705678.post@n4.nabble.com> <69AA4C74-4E9C-40DD-A10F-5E69C73619AD@hindu.org> <4E3B0BCA-2908-41D7-8FA5-DDF0DA95E937@iotecdigital.com> <17D5B7DA-CC3B-4549-9B6D-1DC5CDA2CE4E@gmail.com> <527790C8-7298-4F26-B55A-140E44923D81@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <59ccc3c5-6c72-eb8f-4e60-6be38b710c85@gmail.com> No it isn't . . . but it might be used on a Welsh Rarebit . . . especially by Bertie Wooster. R. On 27.08.2016 02:25, Bob Sneidar wrote: > Isn't that a steak sauce? > > Bob S > > > On Aug 25, 2016, at 08:28 , David V Glasgow > wrote: > > I use to live in Leicestershire ? > > > On 25 Aug 2016, at 4:25 pm, Bob Sneidar > wrote: > > Not even the French could pronounce a word so different from how it is spelled. (I'm half French so I can make fun of us). > > Bob S > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sat Aug 27 04:27:44 2016 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2016 11:27:44 +0300 Subject: Missing a chance In-Reply-To: References: <44d571fd-151b-5575-9393-800c76a8a285@networkdreams.es> Message-ID: <9a4aaf36-8f31-1848-76af-83c0b491d3c9@gmail.com> Very well thought out. On 27.08.2016 02:23, Bob Sneidar wrote: > As I have mentioned before in such threads, large companies need to consider a number of factors when working with custom software solutions, not the least of which is being able to find another developer who can code in the same environment as the one who drove off a bridge, or got hit by a meteor. The LC developer base is nowhere near being able to provide that security, and IMHO will never be. It has nothing to do with what is the better tool. "Better" is a relative term, and a tool for what is the question begged. > > Can you write a stable, robust business application in Livecode? Absolutely! How many of us can do that? Some small percentage of us I think. How many of us have the time to devote to doing that? Some smaller percentage methinks. > > I think that like Apple, the worst thing RunRev can do is try to be something they are not, or will never be perceived as being. Livecode is not a competing product to Objective C or C++. It's a different animal altogether. It's a Rapid Application Development Environment, and the final compiled product is decidedly NOT what a typical binary executable is. Not does it need to be. > > There are no hobbyist C++ developers (who produce useful applications/utilities that is). You are all in, or else you are wasting time and resources to even get started. Livecode however can be taken up by nearly anyone capable of piecing together UI objects, and making them do what they want. > > In summary, LC is an application constructor set. Lots of big prefab pieces that can be glommed together for a given task. C++ and other variants are like a building supply warehouse complete with all the tools you would ever need to build almost anything. One useful thing might be a list of what Livecode CANNOT do. I am sure that, given time, energy, motivation and, inevitably, funding, Livecode can be used to do everything oone can do with C++. I am waiting to be corrected. Richmond. > MHO > > Bob S > > > On Aug 26, 2016, at 08:01 , Heriberto Torrado Gonz?lez > wrote: > > My customers doesn't want to know my development tools (livecode), they want solutions to their problems. > > But on the "big market"...People are looking for java, python, objetive-C, PHP, and .net projects...They know nothing about livecode. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sat Aug 27 07:27:05 2016 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2016 14:27:05 +0300 Subject: Suicide Message-ID: <0820f249-0c3e-0826-f50b-b1a55ae3d01f@gmail.com> How can one do what I want to do with this script (which does not work)? on mouseUp delete me end mouseUp and does that constitute suicide, assisted suicide or euthanasia? Richmond. From paul at researchware.com Sat Aug 27 07:55:08 2016 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2016 07:55:08 -0400 Subject: Suicide In-Reply-To: <0820f249-0c3e-0826-f50b-b1a55ae3d01f@gmail.com> References: <0820f249-0c3e-0826-f50b-b1a55ae3d01f@gmail.com> Message-ID: <57C17F9C.307@researchware.com> On 8/27/2016 7:27 AM, Richmond wrote: > on mouseUp > delete me > end mouseUp The engine can not delete an object whose script is currently executing. This has been a long know issue in LiveCode, but I am not sure it has been documented In the Dictionary for "Delete" there is a warning: "Important! You cannot delete the object whose script holds a currently executing handler." but no explaination of the typical work-around below. on mouseUp put the long id of me into tTarget send "delete tTarget" to me in 0 ticks end mouseUp So I guess you have to use "Assisted Suicide" since you need to send a message to the engine to delete the object after it's script is done. From merakosp at gmail.com Sat Aug 27 08:16:22 2016 From: merakosp at gmail.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2016 15:16:22 +0300 Subject: Suicide In-Reply-To: <57C17F9C.307@researchware.com> References: <0820f249-0c3e-0826-f50b-b1a55ae3d01f@gmail.com> <57C17F9C.307@researchware.com> Message-ID: What is the use case, Richmond? If you want to delete any object on a card by just clicking on it, you can put this on the card script: on mouseup delete the mousecontrol end mouseup and make sure that the objects you want to delete do not have a mouseup handler. On Sat, Aug 27, 2016 at 2:55 PM, Paul Dupuis wrote: > On 8/27/2016 7:27 AM, Richmond wrote: > > on mouseUp > > delete me > > end mouseUp > > The engine can not delete an object whose script is currently executing. > This has been a long know issue in LiveCode, but I am not sure it has > been documented > > In the Dictionary for "Delete" there is a warning: "Important! You > cannot delete the object whose script holds a currently executing > handler." but no explaination of the typical work-around below. > > on mouseUp > put the long id of me into tTarget > send "delete tTarget" to me in 0 ticks > end mouseUp > > So I guess you have to use "Assisted Suicide" since you need to send a > message to the engine to delete the object after it's script is done. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Sat Aug 27 08:22:03 2016 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2016 14:22:03 +0200 Subject: Suicide In-Reply-To: <57C17F9C.307@researchware.com> References: <0820f249-0c3e-0826-f50b-b1a55ae3d01f@gmail.com> <57C17F9C.307@researchware.com> Message-ID: <23DCA133-709A-46E4-A060-67708EF25E85@economy-x-talk.com> Don't use "to me" but use the card or the stack that contains the control to be deleted. -- Kind regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Http://economy-x-talk.com Share the clipboard of your computer over a local network with Clipboard Link http://clipboardlink.economy-x-talk.com Op 27 aug. 2016 om 13:55 heeft Paul Dupuis het volgende geschreven: > On 8/27/2016 7:27 AM, Richmond wrote: >> on mouseUp >> delete me >> end mouseUp > > The engine can not delete an object whose script is currently executing. > This has been a long know issue in LiveCode, but I am not sure it has > been documented > > In the Dictionary for "Delete" there is a warning: "Important! You > cannot delete the object whose script holds a currently executing > handler." but no explaination of the typical work-around below. > > on mouseUp > put the long id of me into tTarget > send "delete tTarget" to me in 0 ticks > end mouseUp > > So I guess you have to use "Assisted Suicide" since you need to send a > message to the engine to delete the object after it's script is done. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sat Aug 27 08:41:30 2016 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2016 15:41:30 +0300 Subject: Suicide In-Reply-To: <23DCA133-709A-46E4-A060-67708EF25E85@economy-x-talk.com> References: <0820f249-0c3e-0826-f50b-b1a55ae3d01f@gmail.com> <57C17F9C.307@researchware.com> <23DCA133-709A-46E4-A060-67708EF25E85@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: <586caba9-abd8-5462-e9a3-d9f8c2f4fb7b@gmail.com> Thanks for the suggestions everyone; not quite as simple as that: on mouseUp put the short id of this card into KARD put the name of this stack into STAQ put the long id of me into DIMENA send ("delete DIMENA") to card id KARD of stack STAQ in 0 ticks end mouseUp that works. Richmond. From iowahengst at mac.com Sat Aug 27 09:24:16 2016 From: iowahengst at mac.com (Randy Hengst) Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2016 08:24:16 -0500 Subject: Underneath In-Reply-To: <0d548254-66bc-1d4a-6155-fe529a1ea49b@gmail.com> References: <8eb95f4b-e606-d3f4-7f10-0d42d423bc33@gmail.com> <69b37617-eccd-2fcd-fc42-7634c1806baa@gmail.com> <0d548254-66bc-1d4a-6155-fe529a1ea49b@gmail.com> Message-ID: Try this in the image ?P? script on mouseUp repeat with x = 1 to the number of controls if the loc of target is within the rect of control x then if ("P" is in the short name of control x) AND (the ID of the target is not the ID of control x) then set the loc of target to the loc of control x exit repeat else move me to 350,350 end if end if end repeat end mouseUp > On Aug 27, 2016, at 3:22 AM, Richmond wrote: > > I'm obviously getting something rather wrong, so I have uploaded something here as explaining things without a sample stack and a pretty picture is well-nigh impossible: > > http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=27837 > > Richmond. > > On 27.08.2016 00:59, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote: >> At 12:27 AM +0300 8/27/2016, Richmond wrote: >>> This doesn't seem to work because this cycles through ALL the controls, and, of course, >>> the object being dragged is also a control. >> >> >> Ah. Forgot about that. You'll need to add a condition: >> >> if within(control x, the mouseLoc) \ >> AND ("P" is not in the short name of control x) >> AND (the ID of the target is not the ID of control x) then >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sat Aug 27 10:29:00 2016 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2016 17:29:00 +0300 Subject: Underneath In-Reply-To: References: <8eb95f4b-e606-d3f4-7f10-0d42d423bc33@gmail.com> <69b37617-eccd-2fcd-fc42-7634c1806baa@gmail.com> <0d548254-66bc-1d4a-6155-fe529a1ea49b@gmail.com> Message-ID: <05287ff8-1f1b-c52a-dc06-c79ce3988a87@gmail.com> That works! Thank you. R. On 27.08.2016 16:24, Randy Hengst wrote: > Try this in the image ?P? script > > on mouseUp > repeat with x = 1 to the number of controls > if the loc of target is within the rect of control x then > if ("P" is in the short name of control x) AND (the ID of the target is not the ID of control x) then > set the loc of target to the loc of control x > exit repeat > else > move me to 350,350 > end if > end if > end repeat > end mouseUp > > >> On Aug 27, 2016, at 3:22 AM, Richmond wrote: >> >> I'm obviously getting something rather wrong, so I have uploaded something here as explaining things without a sample stack and a pretty picture is well-nigh impossible: >> >> http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=27837 >> >> Richmond. >> >> On 27.08.2016 00:59, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote: >>> At 12:27 AM +0300 8/27/2016, Richmond wrote: >>>> This doesn't seem to work because this cycles through ALL the controls, and, of course, >>>> the object being dragged is also a control. >>> >>> Ah. Forgot about that. You'll need to add a condition: >>> >>> if within(control x, the mouseLoc) \ >>> AND ("P" is not in the short name of control x) >>> AND (the ID of the target is not the ID of control x) then >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sat Aug 27 10:38:12 2016 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2016 17:38:12 +0300 Subject: Underneath In-Reply-To: <05287ff8-1f1b-c52a-dc06-c79ce3988a87@gmail.com> References: <8eb95f4b-e606-d3f4-7f10-0d42d423bc33@gmail.com> <69b37617-eccd-2fcd-fc42-7634c1806baa@gmail.com> <0d548254-66bc-1d4a-6155-fe529a1ea49b@gmail.com> <05287ff8-1f1b-c52a-dc06-c79ce3988a87@gmail.com> Message-ID: Well, let's contextualise that: It works in my example stack #3: http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=27837&p=145849#p145849 but NOT in my stack with multiple targets. Richmond. On 27.08.2016 17:29, Richmond wrote: > That works! > > Thank you. > > R. > > On 27.08.2016 16:24, Randy Hengst wrote: >> Try this in the image ?P? script >> >> on mouseUp >> repeat with x = 1 to the number of controls >> if the loc of target is within the rect of control x then >> if ("P" is in the short name of control x) AND (the ID of >> the target is not the ID of control x) then >> set the loc of target to the loc of control x >> exit repeat >> else >> move me to 350,350 >> end if >> end if >> end repeat >> end mouseUp >> >> >>> On Aug 27, 2016, at 3:22 AM, Richmond >>> wrote: >>> >>> I'm obviously getting something rather wrong, so I have uploaded >>> something here as explaining things without a sample stack and a >>> pretty picture is well-nigh impossible: >>> >>> http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=27837 >>> >>> Richmond. >>> >>> On 27.08.2016 00:59, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote: >>>> At 12:27 AM +0300 8/27/2016, Richmond wrote: >>>>> This doesn't seem to work because this cycles through ALL the >>>>> controls, and, of course, >>>>> the object being dragged is also a control. >>>> >>>> Ah. Forgot about that. You'll need to add a condition: >>>> >>>> if within(control x, the mouseLoc) \ >>>> AND ("P" is not in the short name of control x) >>>> AND (the ID of the target is not the ID of control x) then >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From iowahengst at mac.com Sat Aug 27 10:43:12 2016 From: iowahengst at mac.com (Randy Hengst) Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2016 09:43:12 -0500 Subject: Underneath In-Reply-To: References: <8eb95f4b-e606-d3f4-7f10-0d42d423bc33@gmail.com> <69b37617-eccd-2fcd-fc42-7634c1806baa@gmail.com> <0d548254-66bc-1d4a-6155-fe529a1ea49b@gmail.com> <05287ff8-1f1b-c52a-dc06-c79ce3988a87@gmail.com> Message-ID: Well, assuming you are following the same sort of naming procedure for all tiles and grid names? then what about on mouseDown grab me end mouseDown local tShortNameOfTarget on mouseUp put the short name of target into tShortNameOfTarget repeat with x = 1 to the number of controls if the loc of target is within the rect of control x then if (tShortNameOfTarget is in the short name of control x) AND (the ID of the target is not the ID of control x) then set the loc of target to the loc of control x exit repeat else move me to 350,350 end if end if end repeat end mouseUp > On Aug 27, 2016, at 9:38 AM, Richmond wrote: > > Well, let's contextualise that: > > It works in my example stack #3: http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=27837&p=145849#p145849 > > but NOT in my stack with multiple targets. > > Richmond. > > On 27.08.2016 17:29, Richmond wrote: >> That works! >> >> Thank you. >> >> R. >> >> On 27.08.2016 16:24, Randy Hengst wrote: >>> Try this in the image ?P? script >>> >>> on mouseUp >>> repeat with x = 1 to the number of controls >>> if the loc of target is within the rect of control x then >>> if ("P" is in the short name of control x) AND (the ID of the target is not the ID of control x) then >>> set the loc of target to the loc of control x >>> exit repeat >>> else >>> move me to 350,350 >>> end if >>> end if >>> end repeat >>> end mouseUp >>> >>> >>>> On Aug 27, 2016, at 3:22 AM, Richmond wrote: >>>> >>>> I'm obviously getting something rather wrong, so I have uploaded something here as explaining things without a sample stack and a pretty picture is well-nigh impossible: >>>> >>>> http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=27837 >>>> >>>> Richmond. >>>> >>>> On 27.08.2016 00:59, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote: >>>>> At 12:27 AM +0300 8/27/2016, Richmond wrote: >>>>>> This doesn't seem to work because this cycles through ALL the controls, and, of course, >>>>>> the object being dragged is also a control. >>>>> >>>>> Ah. Forgot about that. You'll need to add a condition: >>>>> >>>>> if within(control x, the mouseLoc) \ >>>>> AND ("P" is not in the short name of control x) >>>>> AND (the ID of the target is not the ID of control x) then >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sat Aug 27 14:55:49 2016 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2016 21:55:49 +0300 Subject: Underneath In-Reply-To: References: <8eb95f4b-e606-d3f4-7f10-0d42d423bc33@gmail.com> <69b37617-eccd-2fcd-fc42-7634c1806baa@gmail.com> <0d548254-66bc-1d4a-6155-fe529a1ea49b@gmail.com> <05287ff8-1f1b-c52a-dc06-c79ce3988a87@gmail.com> Message-ID: <83c82390-34c0-7d3d-f998-5471f77870bf@gmail.com> The problem, and it is a problem, is that I have a set of alphabet tiles called names such as "A.png", "B.png" and "C.png" [trying to be original here] and they all contain this script: on mouseDown put the short name of me into IMENA delete the last char of IMENA delete the last char of IMENA delete the last char of IMENA delete the last char of IMENA clone me set the name of the last image to IMENA set the script of img IMENA to fld "fscrip" end mouseDown So field "fscrip" has to contain a UNIVERSAL script that will work with every new tile without any reference to the name of a target over which it is dragged: I have been trying by having this in fld "fscrip": on mouseDown grab me end mouseDown on mouseUp put the short name of me into IMENA if within(img ("%" & IMENA), the mouseLoc) OR within(img ("^" & IMENA), the mouseLoc) OR within(img ("#" & IMENA), the mouseLoc) then --nix else move me to 1000,700 end if end mouseUp The main problem being that that script throws a "bluey" if there are not 3 targets called, for example "%A", "^A" and "#A" Ultimately this is far from satisfactory as there could be anywhere between 0 (zero) and about 12 targets. As the specific targets are unknown for each letter they cannot be specified. Richmond. On 27.08.2016 17:43, Randy Hengst wrote: > Well, assuming you are following the same sort of naming procedure for all tiles and grid names? then what about > > on mouseDown > grab me > end mouseDown > > local tShortNameOfTarget > > on mouseUp > put the short name of target into tShortNameOfTarget > > repeat with x = 1 to the number of controls > if the loc of target is within the rect of control x then > if (tShortNameOfTarget is in the short name of control x) AND (the ID of the target is not the ID of control x) then > set the loc of target to the loc of control x > exit repeat > else > move me to 350,350 > end if > end if > end repeat > end mouseUp > > > >> On Aug 27, 2016, at 9:38 AM, Richmond wrote: >> >> Well, let's contextualise that: >> >> It works in my example stack #3: http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=27837&p=145849#p145849 >> >> but NOT in my stack with multiple targets. >> >> Richmond. >> >> On 27.08.2016 17:29, Richmond wrote: >>> That works! >>> >>> Thank you. >>> >>> R. >>> >>> On 27.08.2016 16:24, Randy Hengst wrote: >>>> Try this in the image ?P? script >>>> >>>> on mouseUp >>>> repeat with x = 1 to the number of controls >>>> if the loc of target is within the rect of control x then >>>> if ("P" is in the short name of control x) AND (the ID of the target is not the ID of control x) then >>>> set the loc of target to the loc of control x >>>> exit repeat >>>> else >>>> move me to 350,350 >>>> end if >>>> end if >>>> end repeat >>>> end mouseUp >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Aug 27, 2016, at 3:22 AM, Richmond wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I'm obviously getting something rather wrong, so I have uploaded something here as explaining things without a sample stack and a pretty picture is well-nigh impossible: >>>>> >>>>> http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=27837 >>>>> >>>>> Richmond. >>>>> >>>>> On 27.08.2016 00:59, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote: >>>>>> At 12:27 AM +0300 8/27/2016, Richmond wrote: >>>>>>> This doesn't seem to work because this cycles through ALL the controls, and, of course, >>>>>>> the object being dragged is also a control. >>>>>> Ah. Forgot about that. You'll need to add a condition: >>>>>> >>>>>> if within(control x, the mouseLoc) \ >>>>>> AND ("P" is not in the short name of control x) >>>>>> AND (the ID of the target is not the ID of control x) then >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sat Aug 27 15:52:26 2016 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2016 22:52:26 +0300 Subject: Underneath In-Reply-To: References: <8eb95f4b-e606-d3f4-7f10-0d42d423bc33@gmail.com> <69b37617-eccd-2fcd-fc42-7634c1806baa@gmail.com> <0d548254-66bc-1d4a-6155-fe529a1ea49b@gmail.com> <05287ff8-1f1b-c52a-dc06-c79ce3988a87@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks to everybody for all sorts of suggestions: I tried all of them, but was unable to get any of them to work. Here is the finished job: http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=27837&p=145851#p145851 Richmond. From tore.nilsen at me.com Sat Aug 27 16:04:03 2016 From: tore.nilsen at me.com (Tore Nilsen) Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2016 22:04:03 +0200 Subject: Underneath In-Reply-To: References: <8eb95f4b-e606-d3f4-7f10-0d42d423bc33@gmail.com> <69b37617-eccd-2fcd-fc42-7634c1806baa@gmail.com> <0d548254-66bc-1d4a-6155-fe529a1ea49b@gmail.com> <05287ff8-1f1b-c52a-dc06-c79ce3988a87@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2506FC18-0A5B-4CC6-8378-5787788427A3@me.com> Have you tried to set the behavior of these tiles to the script of an invisible button, where you reference the object itself with me? Tore > 27. aug. 2016 kl. 21.52 skrev Richmond : > > Thanks to everybody for all sorts of suggestions: I tried all of them, but was unable to get > any of them to work. > > Here is the finished job: http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=27837&p=145851#p145851 > > Richmond. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bonnmike at gmail.com Sat Aug 27 17:00:54 2016 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2016 15:00:54 -0600 Subject: Underneath In-Reply-To: <2506FC18-0A5B-4CC6-8378-5787788427A3@me.com> References: <8eb95f4b-e606-d3f4-7f10-0d42d423bc33@gmail.com> <69b37617-eccd-2fcd-fc42-7634c1806baa@gmail.com> <0d548254-66bc-1d4a-6155-fe529a1ea49b@gmail.com> <05287ff8-1f1b-c52a-dc06-c79ce3988a87@gmail.com> <2506FC18-0A5B-4CC6-8378-5787788427A3@me.com> Message-ID: Made some changes to your stack, link here. https://www.dropbox.com/s/tdz7287r3w75vfw/CRAZY%20LETTERS.livecode?dl=0 Minor changes in the initial tile script, and more in the script of the field fscrip On Sat, Aug 27, 2016 at 2:04 PM, Tore Nilsen wrote: > Have you tried to set the behavior of these tiles to the script of an > invisible button, where you reference the object itself with me? > > Tore > > > > 27. aug. 2016 kl. 21.52 skrev Richmond : > > > > Thanks to everybody for all sorts of suggestions: I tried all of them, > but was unable to get > > any of them to work. > > > > Here is the finished job: http://forums.livecode.com/ > viewtopic.php?f=7&t=27837&p=145851#p145851 > > > > Richmond. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From irog at mac.com Sat Aug 27 22:31:56 2016 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2016 19:31:56 -0700 Subject: Get the filename of this app In-Reply-To: References: <66e2ac60-4604-39e1-a229-0f3f6ed125fc@gmail.com> <3eb57934-0d08-6e89-0583-2721e5b2064c@gmail.com> <79985ed3-a6b5-3df5-5a9f-979f7c8fb139@gmail.com> Message-ID: I want to get the filename of the LiveCode app I happen to be in/running. ?get the filename of this app? obviously does not work, but surely there must be a way to do this??? Thanks, Roger From rdimolad at evergreeninfo.net Sat Aug 27 22:43:18 2016 From: rdimolad at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2016 22:43:18 -0400 Subject: Get the filename of this app Message-ID: Not near a computer but I think "the long name of this stack" will get what you want.? Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services
-------- Original message --------
From: Roger Guay
Date:08/27/2016 22:31 (GMT-05:00)
To: How to use LiveCode
Subject: Get the filename of this app
I want to get the filename of the LiveCode app I happen to be in/running. ?get the filename of this app? obviously does not work, but surely there must be a way to do this??? Thanks, Roger _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From rdimolad at evergreeninfo.net Sat Aug 27 22:55:57 2016 From: rdimolad at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2016 22:55:57 -0400 Subject: Get the filename of this app Message-ID: Also "the short name of this stack" and "the name of this stack" will give you various amounts of detail.? Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services
-------- Original message --------
From: Roger Guay
Date:08/27/2016 22:31 (GMT-05:00)
To: How to use LiveCode
Subject: Get the filename of this app
I want to get the filename of the LiveCode app I happen to be in/running. ?get the filename of this app? obviously does not work, but surely there must be a way to do this??? Thanks, Roger _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From scott at tactilemedia.com Sat Aug 27 23:19:55 2016 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2016 20:19:55 -0700 Subject: Get the filename of this app In-Reply-To: References: <66e2ac60-4604-39e1-a229-0f3f6ed125fc@gmail.com> <3eb57934-0d08-6e89-0583-2721e5b2064c@gmail.com> <79985ed3-a6b5-3df5-5a9f-979f7c8fb139@gmail.com> Message-ID: Try "the fileName of this stack" Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media UX/UI Design > On Aug 27, 2016, at 7:31 PM, Roger Guay wrote: > > I want to get the filename of the LiveCode app I happen to be in/running. ?get the filename of this app? obviously does not work, but surely there must be a way to do this??? > > Thanks, > > Roger > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From irog at mac.com Sat Aug 27 23:43:53 2016 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2016 20:43:53 -0700 Subject: Get the filename of this app In-Reply-To: References: <66e2ac60-4604-39e1-a229-0f3f6ed125fc@gmail.com> <3eb57934-0d08-6e89-0583-2721e5b2064c@gmail.com> <79985ed3-a6b5-3df5-5a9f-979f7c8fb139@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1D8C3FAD-6CED-40FE-8DEF-9EB4D9D178C5@mac.com> No . . . not quite. The result I want is something like "/Applications/LiveCode Indy 8.0.2.app? Any other ideas? > On Aug 27, 2016, at 8:19 PM, Scott Rossi wrote: > > Try "the fileName of this stack" > > Regards, > > Scott Rossi > Creative Director > Tactile Media UX/UI Design > >> On Aug 27, 2016, at 7:31 PM, Roger Guay wrote: >> >> I want to get the filename of the LiveCode app I happen to be in/running. ?get the filename of this app? obviously does not work, but surely there must be a way to do this??? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Roger >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From revdev at pdslabs.net Sat Aug 27 23:55:34 2016 From: revdev at pdslabs.net (Phil Davis) Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2016 20:55:34 -0700 Subject: Get the filename of this app In-Reply-To: <1D8C3FAD-6CED-40FE-8DEF-9EB4D9D178C5@mac.com> References: <66e2ac60-4604-39e1-a229-0f3f6ed125fc@gmail.com> <3eb57934-0d08-6e89-0583-2721e5b2064c@gmail.com> <79985ed3-a6b5-3df5-5a9f-979f7c8fb139@gmail.com> <1D8C3FAD-6CED-40FE-8DEF-9EB4D9D178C5@mac.com> Message-ID: <43c1a65e-39bc-4bfb-2e84-de556055275e@pdslabs.net> Hi Roger, Maybe this? set the itemDel to slash put item 1 to -3 of the engine folder Phil Davis On 8/27/16 8:43 PM, Roger Guay wrote: > No . . . not quite. The result I want is something like > > "/Applications/LiveCode Indy 8.0.2.app? > > > Any other ideas? > > > >> On Aug 27, 2016, at 8:19 PM, Scott Rossi wrote: >> >> Try "the fileName of this stack" >> >> Regards, >> >> Scott Rossi >> Creative Director >> Tactile Media UX/UI Design >> >>> On Aug 27, 2016, at 7:31 PM, Roger Guay wrote: >>> >>> I want to get the filename of the LiveCode app I happen to be in/running. ?get the filename of this app? obviously does not work, but surely there must be a way to do this??? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Roger >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode -- Phil Davis From irog at mac.com Sun Aug 28 01:31:17 2016 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2016 22:31:17 -0700 Subject: Get the filename of this app In-Reply-To: <43c1a65e-39bc-4bfb-2e84-de556055275e@pdslabs.net> References: <66e2ac60-4604-39e1-a229-0f3f6ed125fc@gmail.com> <3eb57934-0d08-6e89-0583-2721e5b2064c@gmail.com> <79985ed3-a6b5-3df5-5a9f-979f7c8fb139@gmail.com> <1D8C3FAD-6CED-40FE-8DEF-9EB4D9D178C5@mac.com> <43c1a65e-39bc-4bfb-2e84-de556055275e@pdslabs.net> Message-ID: <97ACCEA8-23BA-4B70-B253-234C3525D0FD@mac.com> Thank you, Phil. That?s exactly what I need! I knew there had to be a way to do this, but who woulda thunk "engine folder? ? > On Aug 27, 2016, at 8:55 PM, Phil Davis wrote: > > set the itemDel to slash > put item 1 to -3 of the engine folder From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sun Aug 28 01:56:49 2016 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2016 00:56:49 -0500 Subject: OT: Images for Mobile In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <80de8247-7c90-1c64-39a5-32a37ab67611@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/26/2016 4:54 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote: > given these assumptions > > a) the top and bottom of Landscape images contain no significant elements > b) the left and right sides of portrait images contain no significant elements > c) we are looking at a crop that goes full screen, > d) you don't want to generate 5 different possible versions of any one image to package in your apps. > e) Your "eye candy" team of UX reviewers are very, very forgiving of quality differences and fully appreciate the file size issues (i.e. minute improvements in sharpness and clarity do not warrant keeping a 1.5MB version of the file for mobile when you can put a 250KB file right next to it an you can barely see any difference. ) > > Then to work in both 16 X 9 phones or 3 X 4 Tablets (with all other Android rects being ignored for the moment) one simple algorithm is: > > process all images to 3X4 or 4X3 and, then, using Fullscreen show all, these will center "everywhere" and fill "everywhere" with some areas top and bottom or left and right appearing and disappearing depending on the screen/orientation. > > Where your livecode placement scripts always puts these images at the card loc. (centered) I haven't actually tried this yet, but I'd be tempted to make all the images square, using the largest dimension you want to support. Since no edges contain significant elements, it doesn't matter which sides get pushed off the screen or what orientation the device has. The center of interest will always be visible and you don't need to worry much about device size. I've used both 1x and 2x images and both look about the same to me on mobile screens, use less RAM, and load faster. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sun Aug 28 03:27:36 2016 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2016 10:27:36 +0300 Subject: Underneath In-Reply-To: References: <8eb95f4b-e606-d3f4-7f10-0d42d423bc33@gmail.com> <69b37617-eccd-2fcd-fc42-7634c1806baa@gmail.com> <0d548254-66bc-1d4a-6155-fe529a1ea49b@gmail.com> <05287ff8-1f1b-c52a-dc06-c79ce3988a87@gmail.com> <2506FC18-0A5B-4CC6-8378-5787788427A3@me.com> Message-ID: Super: I'll crack it open and have a look. Richmond. On 28.08.2016 00:00, Mike Bonner wrote: > Made some changes to your stack, link here. > https://www.dropbox.com/s/tdz7287r3w75vfw/CRAZY%20LETTERS.livecode?dl=0 > Minor changes in the initial tile script, and more in the script of the > field fscrip > > On Sat, Aug 27, 2016 at 2:04 PM, Tore Nilsen wrote: > >> Have you tried to set the behavior of these tiles to the script of an >> invisible button, where you reference the object itself with me? >> >> Tore >> >> >>> 27. aug. 2016 kl. 21.52 skrev Richmond : >>> >>> Thanks to everybody for all sorts of suggestions: I tried all of them, >> but was unable to get >>> any of them to work. >>> >>> Here is the finished job: http://forums.livecode.com/ >> viewtopic.php?f=7&t=27837&p=145851#p145851 >>> Richmond. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Sun Aug 28 04:19:18 2016 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2016 16:19:18 +0800 Subject: Missing a chance In-Reply-To: References: <44d571fd-151b-5575-9393-800c76a8a285@networkdreams.es> Message-ID: On Sat, Aug 27, 2016 at 7:23 AM, Bob Sneidar wrote: > There are no hobbyist C++ developers (who produce useful applications/utilities that is). ???? SourceForge isn't exactly the 'in' place for OSS these days but even so I think it does represent a location (indication) where part time and hobbyist coders hang out. If I do a search for 'Home and Education', AND OS X AND written in C++ it comes up with 35 pages with about 26 projects on each page. Now yes, it might be debatable as to how many of these are 'useful', but still SourceForge seems to have plenty examples of useful Apps that are written in C++ that are the work hobbyists*. A search of Github also shows there are plenty of examples of C++ apps by hobbyists. * I know professional drivers (bus/truck) who participate in car gymkhanas and/or rallying. I know electronic engineers who play with Arduinos and/or Raspberry Pis for fun. I know Engineers who build scale live steam locomotives as a hobby. Just because someone might program as a profession doesn't mean they can't program in C++ as a hobby. From dochawk at gmail.com Sun Aug 28 12:01:30 2016 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2016 09:01:30 -0700 Subject: Missing a chance In-Reply-To: References: <44d571fd-151b-5575-9393-800c76a8a285@networkdreams.es> Message-ID: On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 4:23 PM, Bob Sneidar wrote: > There are no hobbyist C++ developers (who produce useful > applications/utilities that is). Just offhand,there's LyX . . . And for straight C, I can think of a couple of huge examples without even thinking . . . Unlike every other language I've used, though, C and C++ fall out of my head quickly after using them, and have to be relearned every time (But I do love the scope in them for very local variables). And this from someone who recalled the chain rule when sitting down again to calculus after ten years, and could be programming in Forth or LISP again in a matter of minutes . . . -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From jbv at souslelogo.com Sun Aug 28 12:40:07 2016 From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv) Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2016 18:40:07 +0200 Subject: problem with "put URL" Message-ID: <492dc18ba017eae0e2ea999a2c0070f6.squirrel@sage.on-rev.com> Hi list I have a zip archive on a distant server and I want to offer users of an LC app the possibility to save that archive on their HD and give it the name they want. I'm using the "ask" command, but when using the path returned in the it variable in put URL "http://myDomain.com/myArchibe.zip" into URL it I always get "invalid url" for the content of it, no matter what it is. I'm using LC 6.5.2 on Mac, and I have checked the permissions of the folders in which I try to save the archive. What am I missing ? Thanks in advance, jbv From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sun Aug 28 12:45:08 2016 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2016 09:45:08 -0700 Subject: problem with "put URL" In-Reply-To: <492dc18ba017eae0e2ea999a2c0070f6.squirrel@sage.on-rev.com> References: <492dc18ba017eae0e2ea999a2c0070f6.squirrel@sage.on-rev.com> Message-ID: <754fd496-fb9b-0f8c-6163-b141632b8696@fourthworld.com> jbv wrote: > I'm using the "ask" command, but when using the path returned in the > it variable in > put URL "http://myDomain.com/myArchibe.zip" into URL it > I always get "invalid url" for the content of it, no matter what it > is. > > I'm using LC 6.5.2 on Mac, and I have checked the permissions of the > folders in which I try to save the archive. > > What am I missing ? A protocol specifier. URLs can handle HTTP, HTTPS, FTP, file, or binfile, but yours has none. What you have is a URL like: /path/to/some/file.zip ...and what you want is: binfile:/path/to/some/file.zip To remedy: put URL "http://myDomain.com/myArchibe.zip" into \ URL ("binfille:" & it ) -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sun Aug 28 13:39:40 2016 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2016 20:39:40 +0300 Subject: Underneath In-Reply-To: References: <8eb95f4b-e606-d3f4-7f10-0d42d423bc33@gmail.com> <69b37617-eccd-2fcd-fc42-7634c1806baa@gmail.com> <0d548254-66bc-1d4a-6155-fe529a1ea49b@gmail.com> <05287ff8-1f1b-c52a-dc06-c79ce3988a87@gmail.com> <2506FC18-0A5B-4CC6-8378-5787788427A3@me.com> Message-ID: <1afb74e5-47b9-5a6e-eade-85046c07004e@gmail.com> My wife spotted a major problem with the version of the stack I released. A new version and an explanation of what was wrong and how I corrected it is here: http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=27837&p=145861#p145861 Richmond. From jbv at souslelogo.com Sun Aug 28 15:11:01 2016 From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv) Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2016 21:11:01 +0200 Subject: problem with 'put URL' In-Reply-To: <754fd496-fb9b-0f8c-6163-b141632b8696@fourthworld.com> References: <492dc18ba017eae0e2ea999a2c0070f6.squirrel@sage.on-rev.com> <754fd496-fb9b-0f8c-6163-b141632b8696@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <7a911dc6fb9558b9807c97bb0f343fb2.squirrel@sage.on-rev.com> Thanks Richard. For some obscure reason, I always miss that protocol specifier thing... jbv On Sun, August 28, 2016 6:45 pm, Richard Gaskin wrote: > jbv wrote: > >> I'm using the "ask" command, but when using the path returned in the >> it variable in put URL "http://myDomain.com/myArchibe.zip" into URL it I >> always get "invalid url" for the content of it, no matter what it is. >> >> I'm using LC 6.5.2 on Mac, and I have checked the permissions of the >> folders in which I try to save the archive. >> >> What am I missing ? >> > > A protocol specifier. URLs can handle HTTP, HTTPS, FTP, file, or > binfile, but yours has none. > > What you have is a URL like: > > > /path/to/some/file.zip > > > ...and what you want is: > > > binfile:/path/to/some/file.zip > > > > To remedy: > > > put URL "http://myDomain.com/myArchibe.zip" into \ URL ("binfille:" & it ) > > > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this > url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > From jbv at souslelogo.com Sun Aug 28 15:16:39 2016 From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv) Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2016 21:16:39 +0200 Subject: 2 questions about the zip library Message-ID: Hi again I have 2 questions regarding the zip library : - is there any possibility to add a password to a zip archive ? I haven't found anything in the doc... - how to use revZipSetProgressCallback when the archive is being built by a script on a distant server and the progress bar is displayed in a standalone on the client machine ? Thanks in advance jbv From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sun Aug 28 19:27:58 2016 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2016 16:27:58 -0700 Subject: 2 questions about the zip library In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: jbv wrote: > I have 2 questions regarding the zip library : > > - is there any possibility to add a password to a zip archive ? > I haven't found anything in the doc... Not yet, but request submitted: http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=9485 > - how to use revZipSetProgressCallback when the archive is being > built by a script on a distant server and the progress bar is > displayed in a standalone on the client machine ? Hmmm...never used it myself yet, looking forward to any tips from those who have. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From livfoss at mac.com Mon Aug 29 05:24:56 2016 From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2016 11:24:56 +0200 Subject: OT: Images for Mobile In-Reply-To: <80de8247-7c90-1c64-39a5-32a37ab67611@hyperactivesw.com> References: <80de8247-7c90-1c64-39a5-32a37ab67611@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: I don?t see why this is OT. It seems absolutely mainstream for cross-platform, multi-device apps, which is to a great extent what LC is about. Jacque?s solution looks good to me in general, although one can imagine sensitive situations where it wouldn?t look quite so good. I have been hoping in terms of pure size, that SVG graphics would be helpful due to their ?resizing without resolution problems? capability. But the mothership has been pretty reticent on so far on which way the SVG functionality for widgets is going. Graham > On 28 Aug 2016, at 07:56, J. Landman Gay wrote: > > On 8/26/2016 4:54 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote: >> given these assumptions >> >> a) the top and bottom of Landscape images contain no significant elements >> b) the left and right sides of portrait images contain no significant elements >> c) we are looking at a crop that goes full screen, >> d) you don't want to generate 5 different possible versions of any one image to package in your apps. >> e) Your "eye candy" team of UX reviewers are very, very forgiving of quality differences and fully appreciate the file size issues (i.e. minute improvements in sharpness and clarity do not warrant keeping a 1.5MB version of the file for mobile when you can put a 250KB file right next to it an you can barely see any difference. ) >> >> Then to work in both 16 X 9 phones or 3 X 4 Tablets (with all other Android rects being ignored for the moment) one simple algorithm is: >> >> process all images to 3X4 or 4X3 and, then, using Fullscreen show all, these will center "everywhere" and fill "everywhere" with some areas top and bottom or left and right appearing and disappearing depending on the screen/orientation. >> >> Where your livecode placement scripts always puts these images at the card loc. (centered) > > I haven't actually tried this yet, but I'd be tempted to make all the images square, using the largest dimension you want to support. Since no edges contain significant elements, it doesn't matter which sides get pushed off the screen or what orientation the device has. The center of interest will always be visible and you don't need to worry much about device size. > > I've used both 1x and 2x images and both look about the same to me on mobile screens, use less RAM, and load faster. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From monte at appisle.net Mon Aug 29 06:14:33 2016 From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2016 20:14:33 +1000 Subject: [ANN] This week in LiveCode 48 Message-ID: Hi LiveCoders Read about new developments in LiveCode open source and the open source community in today's edition of the "This Week in LiveCode" newsletter! Read issue #48 here: http://goo.gl/OYgUw3 This is a weekly newsletter about LiveCode, focussing on what's been going on in and around the open source project. New issues will be released weekly on Mondays. We have a dedicated mailing list that will deliver each issue directly to you e-mail, so you don't miss any! Are you doing something interesting with LiveCode Community Edition? Please get in touch and get it featured in "This Week in LiveCode?! Cheers Monte From nabble at mad.pink Mon Aug 29 06:57:16 2016 From: nabble at mad.pink (pink) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2016 03:57:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Problem making standalone in 8.1.0 Message-ID: <1472468236045-4707924.post@n4.nabble.com> I started using 8.1.0RC1... when trying to build an iOS standalone, the "Auto detecting library inclusions" process is taking really long, like 12 minutes. And then... I get an error window that says "could not open module file" and then another error window that says "There was an error while saving the standalone application could not open module file" I tried saving back to the legacy 8 format and compiling it in 8.0.2, but now I am getting the same error there as well. Help! -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Problem-making-standalone-in-8-1-0-tp4707924.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Mon Aug 29 08:36:38 2016 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2016 08:36:38 -0400 Subject: Problem making standalone in 8.1.0 In-Reply-To: <1472468236045-4707924.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1472468236045-4707924.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: Just one note: As you might hope, if you don't change anything after your first compile, you can switch the auto-select to manually-select, and LC will remember what it was including, previously. So, as you are fiddling and running tests, you should be able to at least run them faster. On Mon, Aug 29, 2016 at 6:57 AM, pink wrote: > I started using 8.1.0RC1... when trying to build an iOS standalone, the > "Auto > detecting library inclusions" process is taking really long, like 12 > minutes. And then... > > I get an error window that says "could not open module file" and then > another error window that says "There was an error while saving the > standalone application could not open module file" > > I tried saving back to the legacy 8 format and compiling it in 8.0.2, but > now I am getting the same error there as well. > > Help! > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution. > 278305.n4.nabble.com/Problem-making-standalone-in-8-1-0-tp4707924.html > Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Mon Aug 29 13:13:07 2016 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2016 17:13:07 +0000 Subject: [ ANN ] Release 8.1.0 RC-1 In-Reply-To: <1472239486422-4707876.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1472239486422-4707876.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <738498D4-90BE-49D2-BB99-469973DB850F@iotecdigital.com> I've been getting random CTD on 8.0.2 in El Capitan. I was going to revert to 8.0.1 which seemed very stable to me. I'm sorry for not researching it further. I usually run into the issue while I am using the app in a production environment and I don't have the luxury of troubleshooting inline. Bob S On Aug 26, 2016, at 12:24 , mwieder > wrote: (using Nabble since I'm still banned from the use-list) 8.1.0-rc-1 crashes pretty regularly and unexpectedly on me on osx, so I'm reverting to the latest dp release. From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Mon Aug 29 13:17:14 2016 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2016 17:17:14 +0000 Subject: Missing a chance In-Reply-To: References: <44d571fd-151b-5575-9393-800c76a8a285@networkdreams.es> Message-ID: <44376DF1-EBA6-48F1-ADA2-5D00F8C01590@iotecdigital.com> If you can think without think, then you sir, are a better man than I. ;-) Bob S On Aug 28, 2016, at 09:01 , Dr. Hawkins > wrote: And for straight C, I can think of a couple of huge examples without even thinking . . . From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Mon Aug 29 13:17:58 2016 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2016 17:17:58 +0000 Subject: Missing a chance In-Reply-To: <44376DF1-EBA6-48F1-ADA2-5D00F8C01590@iotecdigital.com> References: <44d571fd-151b-5575-9393-800c76a8a285@networkdreams.es> <44376DF1-EBA6-48F1-ADA2-5D00F8C01590@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: Thinking even. Bob S On Aug 29, 2016, at 10:17 , Bob Sneidar > wrote: If you can think without think, then you sir, are a better man than I. ;-) Bob S On Aug 28, 2016, at 09:01 , Dr. Hawkins > wrote: And for straight C, I can think of a couple of huge examples without even thinking . . . From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Mon Aug 29 16:29:02 2016 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2016 20:29:02 +0000 Subject: Logic Flow Chart App Message-ID: <8B3F2E2A-A4F6-4259-BDBB-6E42C0D83181@iotecdigital.com> Hi all. Anyone know of a good logic flow chart editor? I am having difficulty whenever building complex control structures. When I have 3 or 4 conditions that can be true or false, affecting whether or not I even check for conditions further down the line, I get lost pretty quickly. If I could visualize the overall conditional logic apart from the code I execute it would really help me I think. Bob S From hh at hyperhh.de Mon Aug 29 16:56:31 2016 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2016 22:56:31 +0200 Subject: Logic Flow Chart App Message-ID: <972A2307-40CD-4E5F-96EF-958CAEBFD851@hyperhh.de> > Bob S. wrote: > Anyone know of a good logic flow chart editor? I am having difficulty > whenever building complex control structures. When I have 3 or 4 > conditions that can be true or false, affecting whether or not I even > check for conditions further down the line, I get lost pretty quickly. > If I could visualize the overall conditional logic apart from the code > I execute it would really help me I think. In similar situations the compact view of specially oriented venn-diagrams helped me a lot, even for 5 conditions: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venn_diagram#/media/File:Symmetrical_5-set_Venn_diagram.svg Only determining "in which segment am I now?" helped to structure the script. From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Mon Aug 29 17:01:46 2016 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2016 21:01:46 +0000 Subject: Logic Flow Chart App In-Reply-To: <972A2307-40CD-4E5F-96EF-958CAEBFD851@hyperhh.de> References: <972A2307-40CD-4E5F-96EF-958CAEBFD851@hyperhh.de> Message-ID: <6CA2E24A-72D5-4338-81DA-4C8A4C0B33F2@iotecdigital.com> Thanks. Actually what I need is a logic flow diagramming tool. Bob S > On Aug 29, 2016, at 13:56 , hh wrote: > >> Bob S. wrote: >> Anyone know of a good logic flow chart editor? I am having difficulty >> whenever building complex control structures. When I have 3 or 4 >> conditions that can be true or false, affecting whether or not I even >> check for conditions further down the line, I get lost pretty quickly. >> If I could visualize the overall conditional logic apart from the code >> I execute it would really help me I think. > > In similar situations the compact view of specially oriented > venn-diagrams helped me a lot, even for 5 conditions: > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venn_diagram#/media/File:Symmetrical_5-set_Venn_diagram.svg > > Only determining "in which segment am I now?" helped to structure the > script. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From hh at hyperhh.de Mon Aug 29 17:28:46 2016 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2016 23:28:46 +0200 Subject: Logic Flow Chart App Message-ID: One may look at that as a logic flow chart, the most compact view I know. For example: for booleans A,B,C you have the pairwise disjoint cases (ready for a switch) A and B and C A and B and not C A and not B and C not A and B and C A and not B and not C A and not B and not C not A and B and not C not A and not B and C not A and not B and not C Each of these 2^3 cases is a segment of the three circle venn diagram. For example ABC is displaying all elements that belong to the set A (= A is true) AND belong to the set B (= B is true) AND belong to the set C (= C is true). Hermann From hh at hyperhh.de Mon Aug 29 17:36:44 2016 From: hh at hyperhh.de (hh) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2016 23:36:44 +0200 Subject: Logic Flow Chart App Message-ID: Of course the eight cases are A and B and C A and B and not C A and not B and C not A and B and C A and not B and not C not A and B and not C not A and not B and C not A and not B and not C You know: There are three kinds of mathematicians: A first kind is able to count, the second one is not ;-) > Hermann wrote: > One may look at that as a logic flow chart, the most compact view > I know. For example for booleans A,B,C you have the pairwise disjoint > cases (ready for a switch) > > A and B and C > A and B and not C > A and not B and C > not A and B and C > A and not B and not C > A and not B and not C > not A and B and not C > not A and not B and C > not A and not B and not C > > Each of these 2^3 cases is a segment of the three circle venn diagram. From jerry at jhjensen.com Mon Aug 29 17:43:03 2016 From: jerry at jhjensen.com (Jerry Jensen) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2016 14:43:03 -0700 Subject: Logic Flow Chart App In-Reply-To: <8B3F2E2A-A4F6-4259-BDBB-6E42C0D83181@iotecdigital.com> References: <8B3F2E2A-A4F6-4259-BDBB-6E42C0D83181@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <446D8A01-242F-4E9A-88C6-EEFD231C7C2D@jhjensen.com> I use a pen and paper. It helps me think it through without dealing with yet another piece of software. One client jokingly accused me of drawing cartoons on the job. .Jerry > On Aug 29, 2016, at 1:29 PM, Bob Sneidar wrote: > > Hi all. > > Anyone know of a good logic flow chart editor? I am having difficulty whenever building complex control structures. When I have 3 or 4 conditions that can be true or false, affecting whether or not I even check for conditions further down the line, I get lost pretty quickly. If I could visualize the overall conditional logic apart from the code I execute it would really help me I think. > > Bob S > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From revdev at pdslabs.net Mon Aug 29 18:13:11 2016 From: revdev at pdslabs.net (Phil Davis) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2016 15:13:11 -0700 Subject: Logic Flow Chart App In-Reply-To: <8B3F2E2A-A4F6-4259-BDBB-6E42C0D83181@iotecdigital.com> References: <8B3F2E2A-A4F6-4259-BDBB-6E42C0D83181@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <8f64db8a-7e4e-8409-257a-e8af28e31627@pdslabs.net> Hi Bob, Emboldened by others, I submit my non-answer to your question: I usually start at my whiteboard with either traditional flowcharting or Warnier/Orr diagrams, and then go to paper and pencil if I need to drill down very far. If the decision tree is very complex, I'll sometimes put together a truth table. Somewhere along the way I start pseudocoding and prototyping (top-down if possible), which leads to my bad ideas being shown for what they are, and the good ones coming to the surface (at least in theory - sometimes the bad ideas are so technically compelling they make it into the code). In the past I used OmniGraffle on the Mac but tended to get distracted by the art of chart creation rather than staying on task. I find the most important part of the whole process is to correctly identify the functional goal and the problem that prevents it from happening. (Of course you have to define "correctly" too.) Without those, it doesn't much matter what you do. You can use an Etch-a-Sketch. Phil Davis On 8/29/16 1:29 PM, Bob Sneidar wrote: > Hi all. > > Anyone know of a good logic flow chart editor? I am having difficulty whenever building complex control structures. When I have 3 or 4 conditions that can be true or false, affecting whether or not I even check for conditions further down the line, I get lost pretty quickly. If I could visualize the overall conditional logic apart from the code I execute it would really help me I think. > > Bob S > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Phil Davis From nabble at mad.pink Mon Aug 29 18:11:17 2016 From: nabble at mad.pink (pink) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2016 15:11:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Problem making standalone in 8.1.0 In-Reply-To: <1472468236045-4707924.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1472468236045-4707924.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <1472508677065-4707935.post@n4.nabble.com> so let me ask this... what can I do to move forward? -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Problem-making-standalone-in-8-1-0-tp4707924p4707935.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From nabble at mad.pink Mon Aug 29 18:16:12 2016 From: nabble at mad.pink (pink) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2016 15:16:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Problem making standalone in 8.1.0 In-Reply-To: <1472468236045-4707924.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1472468236045-4707924.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <1472508972197-4707938.post@n4.nabble.com> So is there a way to find what is missing and fix it? I can't find any additional information about what this"module file" is -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Problem-making-standalone-in-8-1-0-tp4707924p4707938.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From dochawk at gmail.com Mon Aug 29 20:53:51 2016 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2016 17:53:51 -0700 Subject: Missing a chance In-Reply-To: <44376DF1-EBA6-48F1-ADA2-5D00F8C01590@iotecdigital.com> References: <44d571fd-151b-5575-9393-800c76a8a285@networkdreams.es> <44376DF1-EBA6-48F1-ADA2-5D00F8C01590@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 29, 2016 at 10:17 AM, Bob Sneidar wrote: > If you can think without think, then you sir, are a better man than I. ;-) > Also, I can read with both eyes shut. (hmm, probably means nothing to non US folks. It's a very late Dr. Seuss book). -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com Mon Aug 29 20:59:14 2016 From: stephenREVOLUTION2 at barncard.com (stephen barncard) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2016 17:59:14 -0700 Subject: Logic Flow Chart App In-Reply-To: <8B3F2E2A-A4F6-4259-BDBB-6E42C0D83181@iotecdigital.com> References: <8B3F2E2A-A4F6-4259-BDBB-6E42C0D83181@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: OmniGraffle was my favorite https://www.omnigroup.com/omnigraffle but others are here... these look cool... SMART DRAW or LUCID CHART Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA - mixstream.org On Mon, Aug 29, 2016 at 1:29 PM, Bob Sneidar wrote: > Hi all. > > Anyone know of a good logic flow chart editor? I am having difficulty > whenever building complex control structures. When I have 3 or 4 conditions > that can be true or false, affecting whether or not I even check for > conditions further down the line, I get lost pretty quickly. If I could > visualize the overall conditional logic apart from the code I execute it > would really help me I think. > > Bob S > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From sritcp at gmail.com Mon Aug 29 21:36:23 2016 From: sritcp at gmail.com (Sri) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2016 18:36:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Suicide In-Reply-To: <586caba9-abd8-5462-e9a3-d9f8c2f4fb7b@gmail.com> References: <0820f249-0c3e-0826-f50b-b1a55ae3d01f@gmail.com> <57C17F9C.307@researchware.com> <23DCA133-709A-46E4-A060-67708EF25E85@economy-x-talk.com> <586caba9-abd8-5462-e9a3-d9f8c2f4fb7b@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1472520983558-4707941.post@n4.nabble.com> http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=25742&p=133791&hilit=harakiri#p133783 Regards, Sri -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Suicide-tp4707891p4707941.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Tue Aug 30 02:49:45 2016 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 09:49:45 +0300 Subject: Logic Flow Chart App In-Reply-To: <8B3F2E2A-A4F6-4259-BDBB-6E42C0D83181@iotecdigital.com> References: <8B3F2E2A-A4F6-4259-BDBB-6E42C0D83181@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <5d37692c-280f-2cb2-ce3d-303d56d45974@gmail.com> I like Dia: http://dia-installer.de/ Richmond. On 29.08.2016 23:29, Bob Sneidar wrote: > Hi all. > > Anyone know of a good logic flow chart editor? I am having difficulty whenever building complex control structures. When I have 3 or 4 conditions that can be true or false, affecting whether or not I even check for conditions further down the line, I get lost pretty quickly. If I could visualize the overall conditional logic apart from the code I execute it would really help me I think. > > Bob S > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Tue Aug 30 02:51:42 2016 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 09:51:42 +0300 Subject: Missing a chance In-Reply-To: References: <44d571fd-151b-5575-9393-800c76a8a285@networkdreams.es> <44376DF1-EBA6-48F1-ADA2-5D00F8C01590@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: On 30.08.2016 03:53, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > On Mon, Aug 29, 2016 at 10:17 AM, Bob Sneidar > wrote: > >> If you can think without think, then you sir, are a better man than I. ;-) >> > Also, I can read with both eyes shut. > > (hmm, probably means nothing to non US folks. It's a very late Dr. Seuss > book). > It must be one of the few Dr Seuss books that didn't make it "across the pond" as I was brought up on Dr Seuss books even though I wasn't a child in the USA. I would be glad of the reference so I can have a chance to catch up. Richmond. From curt at sonasoftware.com Tue Aug 30 07:41:08 2016 From: curt at sonasoftware.com (Curtis Ford) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 07:41:08 -0400 Subject: 'Fit content' missing in version 8 - any workaround? Message-ID: <57C570D4.90903@sonasoftware.com> I saw in bug report 17618 that I'm not necessarily going crazy: the 'Fit content' button is indeed missing from the property inspector (I'm using 8.1.0 DP3). I suppose I can get something similar by using set the height of fld "whatever" to the formattedHeight of fld "whatever" in the message box, but is there a quicker way? Anybody know if this will make it into the final release of 8.1? I'm working on a project that has me really missing that button. Curt -- Sent from Postbox From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Tue Aug 30 10:10:34 2016 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 10:10:34 -0400 Subject: Problem making standalone in 8.1.0 In-Reply-To: <1472508972197-4707938.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1472468236045-4707924.post@n4.nabble.com> <1472508972197-4707938.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: Have you tried filing a bug report? On Mon, Aug 29, 2016 at 6:16 PM, pink wrote: > So is there a way to find what is missing and fix it? > > I can't find any additional information about what this"module file" is > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution. > 278305.n4.nabble.com/Problem-making-standalone-in-8-1-0- > tp4707924p4707938.html > Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From ambassador at fourthworld.com Tue Aug 30 10:19:40 2016 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 07:19:40 -0700 Subject: 'Fit content' missing in version 8 - any workaround? In-Reply-To: <57C570D4.90903@sonasoftware.com> References: <57C570D4.90903@sonasoftware.com> Message-ID: <71911750-ebfe-fdf0-2966-5b2fa5d45572@fourthworld.com> Curtis Ford wrote: > I saw in bug report 17618 that I'm not necessarily going crazy: the > 'Fit content' button is indeed missing from the property inspector > (I'm using 8.1.0 DP3). > > I suppose I can get something similar by using > > set the height of fld "whatever" to the formattedHeight of fld > "whatever" > > in the message box, but is there a quicker way? Anybody know if this > will make it into the final release of 8.1? > > I'm working on a project that has me really missing that button. Please file an enhancement request for that if there isn't one in the DB already. I just whipped up a simple plugin to tide you over in the meantime: -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Aug 30 10:32:20 2016 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 14:32:20 +0000 Subject: Logic Flow Chart App In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: There are also 10 kinds of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't. Bob S On Aug 29, 2016, at 14:36 , hh > wrote: You know: There are three kinds of mathematicians: A first kind is able to count, the second one is not ;-) From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Aug 30 10:37:04 2016 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 14:37:04 +0000 Subject: Logic Flow Chart App In-Reply-To: <8f64db8a-7e4e-8409-257a-e8af28e31627@pdslabs.net> References: <8B3F2E2A-A4F6-4259-BDBB-6E42C0D83181@iotecdigital.com> <8f64db8a-7e4e-8409-257a-e8af28e31627@pdslabs.net> Message-ID: Best Answer! Haa haa!!! Bob S On Aug 29, 2016, at 15:13 , Phil Davis > wrote: Hi Bob, Emboldened by others, I submit my non-answer to your question: From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Aug 30 10:41:23 2016 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 14:41:23 +0000 Subject: Logic Flow Chart App In-Reply-To: <8f64db8a-7e4e-8409-257a-e8af28e31627@pdslabs.net> References: <8B3F2E2A-A4F6-4259-BDBB-6E42C0D83181@iotecdigital.com> <8f64db8a-7e4e-8409-257a-e8af28e31627@pdslabs.net> Message-ID: Thanks all. I'll give those a try. I get that sometimes the process of drawing the chart can be itself distracting, especially when you discover that you need to change something and everything has to be rearranged. I played with Chipp's app a bit and that intrigues me greatly. I don't draw anything, I just enter a series of possibilities and the chart draws itself. Brilliant idea. Bob S From curt at sonasoftware.com Tue Aug 30 10:44:36 2016 From: curt at sonasoftware.com (Curtis Ford) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 10:44:36 -0400 Subject: 'Fit content' missing in version 8 - any workaround? Message-ID: <57C59BD4.1060708@sonasoftware.com> > Please file an enhancement request for that if there isn't one in the DB > already. Done. > > I just whipped up a simple plugin to tide you over in the meantime: > Thanks Richard, that's really helpful! Quick & easy. Curt -- Sent from Postbox From dochawk at gmail.com Tue Aug 30 11:37:14 2016 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 08:37:14 -0700 Subject: Missing a chance In-Reply-To: References: <44d571fd-151b-5575-9393-800c76a8a285@networkdreams.es> <44376DF1-EBA6-48F1-ADA2-5D00F8C01590@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 29, 2016 at 11:51 PM, Richmond wrote: > It must be one of the few Dr Seuss books that didn't make it "across the > pond" as I was brought > up on Dr Seuss books even though I wasn't a child in the USA. > > I would be glad of the reference so I can have a chance to catch up. > good "seuss i can read with my eyes shut" gets variety, including a coulee of youtube readings. "Oh the things you can think" is another late one, targeted at adults, iirc. And somewhere either my father or I has "the wartime dr. seuss" with Giesel's WWII cartoons. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Aug 30 11:37:22 2016 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 15:37:22 +0000 Subject: Logic Flow Chart App In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <96D8140C-DAAE-4497-B85E-FA2B1FC478E2@iotecdigital.com> By diagramming out the process (which was not all that complicated) I see that I cannot employ a simple logic flow to the problem without repeating code oe else using several handlers. I am always struggling with coding efficiency, where I never want to write the same code twice, while still trying to code everything into one handler. The notion of having several 3 or 4 line handlers seems on the face of it to be inefficient, but as it turns out may be the only way to avoid double coding. I have a situation where there are 3 conditions which branch out, each having 2 to three more conditions that may reconverge on one of the other logic flows. This cannot be done in a single handler without as I said, writing duplicate code or breaking it up into multiple handlers. I guess the lesson here is never attempt in a single handler what you can do in several. ;-) Bob S From iphonelagi at gmail.com Tue Aug 30 16:57:40 2016 From: iphonelagi at gmail.com (Iphonelagi) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 21:57:40 +0100 Subject: Missing a chance In-Reply-To: References: <44d571fd-151b-5575-9393-800c76a8a285@networkdreams.es> <44376DF1-EBA6-48F1-ADA2-5D00F8C01590@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <1582B4F2-AC83-4E81-8723-99EB1B018B1C@gmail.com> Why do we say RR has to spend more on marketing? They have a marketing person and somebody looking after the website Seems like they are doing the minimum at work and that's it. Am I being harsh or just stating the obvious it doesn't cost any extra money to do what Richmond did and search these sites out. Sent from my iPhone > On 30 Aug 2016, at 16:37, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > > On Mon, Aug 29, 2016 at 11:51 PM, Richmond > wrote: > >> It must be one of the few Dr Seuss books that didn't make it "across the >> pond" as I was brought >> up on Dr Seuss books even though I wasn't a child in the USA. >> >> I would be glad of the reference so I can have a chance to catch up. > > good "seuss i can read with my eyes shut" gets variety, including a coulee > of youtube readings. > > "Oh the things you can think" is another late one, targeted at adults, iirc. > > And somewhere either my father or I has "the wartime dr. seuss" with > Giesel's WWII cartoons. > > > -- > Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. > (702) 508-8462 > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bodine at bodinetraininggames.com Tue Aug 30 18:35:24 2016 From: bodine at bodinetraininggames.com (tbodine) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 15:35:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: LC performance change from Win 7 to Win 10 Message-ID: <1472596524249-4707954.post@n4.nabble.com> Hi All. Has anyone else experienced a severe drop in LiveCode's speed in Windows 10 compared to Windows 7? I recently upgraded to Win10 on my PC workstation. When I use LC 7.1.1 (my mainstay version on this machine for a long time now), it's like it is stuck in a bog. Specifically: * A standalone build that used to take under 2 minutes now takes more than 10 minutes. (It appears the "Removing development properties..." part of the job is the main slowdown, consuming 8 minutes.) * When my code calls uses the Answer cmd, the title "Answer Dlog" appears in the window for about 1 second before the my actual text is displayed in the answer window. * The script editor's responsiveness is awful. Keystrokes don't buffer. Arrow key actions can result in undesired repetitions. Anyone else experiencing this? Suggestions? Under Win10, all the productivity benefits of using LC have vanished! Thanks, Tom Bodine -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/LC-performance-change-from-Win-7-to-Win-10-tp4707954.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From ambassador at fourthworld.com Tue Aug 30 18:45:58 2016 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 15:45:58 -0700 Subject: LC performance change from Win 7 to Win 10 In-Reply-To: <1472596524249-4707954.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1472596524249-4707954.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: tbodine wrote: > Has anyone else experienced a severe drop in LiveCode's speed in > Windows 10 compared to Windows 7? > > I recently upgraded to Win10 on my PC workstation. When I use LC > 7.1.1 (my mainstay version on this machine for a long time now)... 7.1.1 is several versions back. I would suggest trying the latest v8.1 DP, as there's been much work on the Windows since in the months since. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Tue Aug 30 18:52:15 2016 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 15:52:15 -0700 Subject: Missing a chance In-Reply-To: <1582B4F2-AC83-4E81-8723-99EB1B018B1C@gmail.com> References: <1582B4F2-AC83-4E81-8723-99EB1B018B1C@gmail.com> Message-ID: <620ff128-d42c-6df6-95f9-f38f6bd766de@fourthworld.com> Iphonelagi wrote: > Why do we say RR has to spend more on marketing? > They have a marketing person and somebody looking after the website > Seems like they are doing the minimum at work and that's it. > Am I being harsh or just stating the obvious it doesn't cost any > extra money to do what Richmond did and search these sites out. > Nothing is free. Everything costs at least time, the most precious resource any of us have. Which features in queue would you like to see them set aside to hunt down thousands of random web sites to add their product name to lists? Which of those sites have an Alexa ranking higher than livecode.com? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From monte at appisle.net Tue Aug 30 19:02:39 2016 From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2016 09:02:39 +1000 Subject: LC performance change from Win 7 to Win 10 In-Reply-To: <1472596524249-4707954.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1472596524249-4707954.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: > On 31 Aug 2016, at 8:35 AM, tbodine wrote: > > I recently upgraded to Win10 on my PC workstation. When I use LC 7.1.1 (my > mainstay version on this machine for a long time now), it's like it is stuck > in a bog. There was a big push in the LiveCode 8 dp cycle to try to get LiveCode closer to 6.7 performance levels with native encoding so you will probably find if you try 8 it will perform much better. > Specifically: > * A standalone build that used to take under 2 minutes now takes more than > 10 minutes. (It appears the "Removing development properties..." part of the > job is the main slowdown, consuming 8 minutes.) There could be some inefficient object iteration in there. I?ll take a look to see if it?s still there in 8.1. I recently sorted out some in the script find dialog and there?s a huge difference in speed so ideally we can make similar gains there. > * When my code calls uses the Answer cmd, the title "Answer Dlog" appears in > the window for about 1 second before the my actual text is displayed in the > answer window. That sounds odd. We?d definitely like to know if you are experiencing that in 8.1 RC 1. > * The script editor's responsiveness is awful. Keystrokes don't buffer. > Arrow key actions can result in undesired repetitions. I?d be keen to get a recipe for this also if you experience the same in 8.1 RC 1. I?ve had a verbal report of the keystroke thing in very long scripts on windows but still need to work out what?s going on there. Cheers Monte From monte at appisle.net Tue Aug 30 19:34:54 2016 From: monte at appisle.net (Monte Goulding) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2016 09:34:54 +1000 Subject: Missing a chance In-Reply-To: <1582B4F2-AC83-4E81-8723-99EB1B018B1C@gmail.com> References: <44d571fd-151b-5575-9393-800c76a8a285@networkdreams.es> <44376DF1-EBA6-48F1-ADA2-5D00F8C01590@iotecdigital.com> <1582B4F2-AC83-4E81-8723-99EB1B018B1C@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1C0C1839-B792-4862-86DA-33CA6F733F74@appisle.net> > On 31 Aug 2016, at 6:57 AM, Iphonelagi wrote: > > Why do we say RR has to spend more on marketing? > They have a marketing person and somebody looking after the website > Seems like they are doing the minimum at work and that's it. > Am I being harsh or just stating the obvious it doesn't cost any extra money to do what Richmond did and search these sites out. > Just to put in my 2 cents as someone that has been around for a while and has now had experience as everything from a LiveCode noob through consultant, educator, third party vendor and now core team member. There?s been many times over the years when I?ve thought and even reached out to suggest a certain thing the company do and wonder why they aren?t doing it. Now I know that there?s no slackers on the team. Everyone is completely flat out delivering everything they can. Personally since joining the team I don?t think I?ve ever worked so many hours. It?s not that I?m expected to do an unreasonable amount of work (in fact I?m getting a few comments from the team about working on the weekend) it?s that I can see all these things I want to fix so I?m fitting in extra wherever I can in addition to things that are assigned to me. I know others on the team do that also. The good news is you can feel free to contribute whatever you feel needs to be done that we haven?t got the resources to do from code right through to getting lots of sites on the net to point to LiveCode. Even just sharing something on your facebook feed helps. Cheers Monte From bodine at bodinetraininggames.com Tue Aug 30 19:42:57 2016 From: bodine at bodinetraininggames.com (tbodine) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 16:42:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: LC performance change from Win 7 to Win 10 In-Reply-To: References: <1472596524249-4707954.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <1472600577456-4707959.post@n4.nabble.com> Thanks Monte and Richard for the fast replies. OK, I'll give the latest stable version of 8 a try using the same codebase and let you know what happens. It may be a week or so before I get to that due to a pressing deadline. Thanks again, Tom Bodine -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/LC-performance-change-from-Win-7-to-Win-10-tp4707954p4707959.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From rman at free.fr Tue Aug 30 20:22:20 2016 From: rman at free.fr (Robert Mann) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 17:22:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Logic Flow Chart App In-Reply-To: <8B3F2E2A-A4F6-4259-BDBB-6E42C0D83181@iotecdigital.com> References: <8B3F2E2A-A4F6-4259-BDBB-6E42C0D83181@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <1472602940488-4707960.post@n4.nabble.com> What about the ID5 route? Long time ago I had been taken in the "expert system" mode. I used ID5 algorithm to optimize the decision trees. it's a "decision aid " algorithm that was implemented in quite a few PC tools long time ago. You would just fill in a table with criterias and values, and the logical D-tree was output. i've always wondered if anybody ales where had implemented that algorithm in livecode?? It would be a quite nifty little tool to help writing code.. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Logic-Flow-Chart-App-tp4707929p4707960.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From iphonelagi at gmail.com Wed Aug 31 05:46:14 2016 From: iphonelagi at gmail.com (Lagi Pittas) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2016 10:46:14 +0100 Subject: Missing a chance In-Reply-To: <620ff128-d42c-6df6-95f9-f38f6bd766de@fourthworld.com> References: <1582B4F2-AC83-4E81-8723-99EB1B018B1C@gmail.com> <620ff128-d42c-6df6-95f9-f38f6bd766de@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Richard You totally missed my point. First off if the website is taking 24 hours of the developers time then there is a problem. I went on the main site and there was a link to the documentation yesterday - and guess what page not found - it happens all the time, I given up even bothering to look at the link and just re-google. But more important is the fact that we all have "day jobs" as in I'm self employed but I still scan the web for interesting stuff to do with livecode or fox or PDF or Pytghon or whatever. I would suggest that instead of looking at dancing cats - i'm being facetious here - just take a little time out to do what Richmond and others did. Yes Time is what we cannot get back but we actually all waste some time on frivolities - like trying to justify the unjustifiable. Here's a suggestion why don't RR hire one of these virtual assistants that cost maybe $400 or $500 a month (it's not peanuts when a house costs less than $15000 in the Philipines - so we are not using slave labour) and give him the task of spreading the word full time 50 of us paying $10 a month would do that and we save time arguing what should be done - Im sure these last 2 postings have cost both of us more than $10 in time. I totally agree with you on your main point that we can all get more money but we can never get back our time - $500 a month to get the word out, when RR is "in the best financial position in this decade", come on now something doesn't add up - I would suggest no thinking outside the box in marketing. Nothing need be put further back in the queue. Lagi On 30 August 2016 at 23:52, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Iphonelagi wrote: > > > Why do we say RR has to spend more on marketing? > > They have a marketing person and somebody looking after the website > > Seems like they are doing the minimum at work and that's it. > > Am I being harsh or just stating the obvious it doesn't cost any > > extra money to do what Richmond did and search these sites out. > > > > Nothing is free. Everything costs at least time, the most precious > resource any of us have. > > Which features in queue would you like to see them set aside to hunt down > thousands of random web sites to add their product name to lists? > > Which of those sites have an Alexa ranking higher than livecode.com? > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From panos.merakos at livecode.com Wed Aug 31 07:01:36 2016 From: panos.merakos at livecode.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2016 12:01:36 +0100 Subject: Multiple Property Inspector Instances for the same object - Bug or Feature ? Message-ID: Hi all, Today we came across this report, and we are on a discussion on whether this is a bug or a feature. What do you think? http://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18291 Should we allow this behavior, given of course that there are no syncing issues? A quick test shows that there are no syncing problems so far. Best, Panos -- From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Aug 31 08:12:42 2016 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2016 15:12:42 +0300 Subject: Missing a chance In-Reply-To: References: <1582B4F2-AC83-4E81-8723-99EB1B018B1C@gmail.com> <620ff128-d42c-6df6-95f9-f38f6bd766de@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <0b61084a-1bd9-3ef2-4b0e-a5738b754e9d@gmail.com> On 31.08.2016 12:46, Lagi Pittas wrote: > Richard > > You totally missed my point. > > First off if the website is taking 24 hours of the developers time then > there is a problem. I went on the main site and there was a link to the > documentation yesterday - and guess what page not found - it happens all > the time, I given up even bothering to look at the link and just re-google. > > But more important is the fact that we all have "day jobs" as in I'm self > employed but I still scan the web for interesting stuff to do with livecode > or fox or PDF or Pytghon or whatever. > > I would suggest that instead of looking at dancing cats - i'm being > facetious here - just take a little time out to do what Richmond and others > did. I'm off to have an icon painted of myself as I'm obviously approaching sainthood. Seriously . . . . Every week night my wife and her Mum (rising 92) watch a daft Turkish soap opera; because my Mum-in-law loves it, and because although my wife doesn't like it, her Mum doesn't want to watch it alone because she takes all of it literally and needs my wife to hold her hand whenever some gets shot, ends up in prison, in hospital or (like WINE) self-referentially in a Turkish soap opera (go figure). That's about an hour and 3 quarters . . . Not wish to cast aspersions on Turkish soap operas, however, as an intellectual snob I'd far rather do something else. So I am, from 8 to 10 local time, in front of the bloody Linux box (and it does get bloody at times), normally waiting for stroppy teenagers to send me essays so I can trash them and send them back for rewrites . . . And, while I'm waiting, I can do a bit of "what Richmond and others did" Nothing saintly in it at all . . . just something better than "that stupid card game". One of the things a lot of people seem to overlook is the time they waste "in the gaps" between all the other things they do . . . this is why the children I teach always seem surprised that I suggest they should all have a copy of the Longman Advanced Learner's Dictionary on a shelf next to the toilet! The whole problem is a problem of attitude . . . There are 3 gypsy women who are meant to clean our street, but, until recently were doing nothing of the sort . . . So I had a completely "taboo" idea (in Bulgaria Bulgarians are ravingly racist about gypsies) and went downstairs (we live on the top floor of our block) with 4 cups of coffee and 3 cigarettes (I don't smoke cigarettes), and sat and had coffee with these ladies for 15 minutes - this has developed into a very healthy (well, barring the cigerattes) weekly event: and, guess what, our street is now cleaned very well indeed. What does this cost me: next to nothing . . . mind you I've now got one of their kids coming to English classes at my school for nothing . . . > > Yes Time is what we cannot get back but we actually all waste some time on > frivolities - like trying to justify the unjustifiable. "frivolitles"; what a magical sounding word, makes me thing of things like "Victoria's Secret" (for those of you who haven't heard of this place, it is where I *don't* buy my thongs: https://www.victoriassecret.com/), the "Body Shop", and so on. Indeed . . . we all waste so much time, for one reason or another. > > Here's a suggestion why don't RR hire one of these virtual assistants that > cost maybe $400 or $500 a month (it's not peanuts when a house costs less > than $15000 in the Philipines - so we are not using slave labour) and give > him the task of spreading the word full time 50 of us paying $10 a month > would do that and we save time arguing what should be done - Im sure these > last 2 postings have cost both of us more than $10 in time. > > I totally agree with you on your main point that we can all get more money > but we can never get back our time - $500 a month to get the word out, when > RR is "in the best financial position in this decade", come on now > something doesn't add up - I would suggest no thinking outside the box in > marketing. Nothing need be put further back in the queue. > > Lagi > > On 30 August 2016 at 23:52, Richard Gaskin > wrote: > >> Iphonelagi wrote: >> >>> Why do we say RR has to spend more on marketing? >>> They have a marketing person and somebody looking after the website >>> Seems like they are doing the minimum at work and that's it. >>> Am I being harsh or just stating the obvious it doesn't cost any >>> extra money to do what Richmond did and search these sites out. >>> >> Nothing is free. Everything costs at least time, the most precious >> resource any of us have. Yup: that's a fact: so why do we waste so much of it? >> >> Which features in queue would you like to see them set aside to hunt down >> thousands of random web sites to add their product name to lists? >> >> Which of those sites have an Alexa ranking higher than livecode.com? >> >> -- >> Richard Gaskin Richmond. From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Wed Aug 31 08:36:28 2016 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2016 08:36:28 -0400 Subject: LC performance change from Win 7 to Win 10 In-Reply-To: <1472600577456-4707959.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1472596524249-4707954.post@n4.nabble.com> <1472600577456-4707959.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: Are you running 10 in parallels, or on a native pc? 10 is slower than 7 in many cases, and the new Parallels is slower than the last one, in many cases. Patches from both have not fixed everything. On Tue, Aug 30, 2016 at 7:42 PM, tbodine wrote: > Thanks Monte and Richard for the fast replies. > > OK, I'll give the latest stable version of 8 a try using the same codebase > and let you know what happens. It may be a week or so before I get to that > due to a pressing deadline. > > Thanks again, > Tom Bodine > > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution. > 278305.n4.nabble.com/LC-performance-change-from-Win-7- > to-Win-10-tp4707954p4707959.html > Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Aug 31 10:12:55 2016 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2016 07:12:55 -0700 Subject: LC performance change from Win 7 to Win 10 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <829e21c3-72a5-bc2b-0473-6a8f4fbf1879@fourthworld.com> Mike Kerner wrote: > ...the new Parallels is slower than the last one.... Bug fix: https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Downloads Mark Wieder turned me on to VirtualBox several years ago, and it restored sessions soooooo much faster than Parallels I switched everything over that day and never looked back. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From bodine at bodinetraininggames.com Wed Aug 31 10:27:08 2016 From: bodine at bodinetraininggames.com (tbodine) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2016 07:27:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: LC performance change from Win 7 to Win 10 In-Reply-To: References: <1472596524249-4707954.post@n4.nabble.com> <1472600577456-4707959.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <1472653628242-4707966.post@n4.nabble.com> I'm running Windows 10 Pro native on a workstation*. -- Tom * 64-bit, Intel Xeon CPU 3.19 GHz, 12 GB memory Mike Kerner wrote > Are you running 10 in parallels, or on a native pc? 10 is slower than 7 > in > many cases, and the new Parallels is slower than the last one, in many > cases. Patches from both have not fixed everything. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/LC-performance-change-from-Win-7-to-Win-10-tp4707954p4707966.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From dochawk at gmail.com Wed Aug 31 11:24:45 2016 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2016 08:24:45 -0700 Subject: Missing a chance In-Reply-To: <0b61084a-1bd9-3ef2-4b0e-a5738b754e9d@gmail.com> References: <1582B4F2-AC83-4E81-8723-99EB1B018B1C@gmail.com> <620ff128-d42c-6df6-95f9-f38f6bd766de@fourthworld.com> <0b61084a-1bd9-3ef2-4b0e-a5738b754e9d@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 5:12 AM, Richmond wrote: > her Mum doesn't want to watch it alone because she takes all of it > literally and needs my wife to hold her hand whenever some gets shot, ends > up in prison, Joey, have you ever . . . :) -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Aug 31 11:55:34 2016 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2016 08:55:34 -0700 Subject: Missing a chance In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8b8720e8-19f3-4a9b-4fcd-8dceab66f5d6@fourthworld.com> Lagi Pittas wrote: > Richard > > You totally missed my point. It seems we missed each other's points. Mine was about ROI. > First off if the website is taking 24 hours of the developers time > then there is a problem. I went on the main site and there was a link > to the documentation yesterday - and guess what page not found... Requiring me to guess unfortunately leaves me at a disadvantage for helping you: while I have submitted bug reports for broken links as I come across them in the past, clicking the "API" link in the footer of the main page takes me to the API page as I would expect. While link-checking is important, it's also a very separate matter from this thread about asking the team to take time away from other things to add their programming tool to lists of tools in the rather different category of authoring tools (more on that below). Just the same, of course we want to see good links there so if you come across broken links in the future please submit a bug report for those. If the one you referred to here is still present, please consider offering guidance that would allow the team to fix it and I'll happily forward that for you. > But more important is the fact that we all have "day jobs" as in I'm > self employed but I still scan the web for interesting stuff to do > with livecode or fox or PDF or Pytghon or whatever. Many of us do. And when I come across a listing of tools where LiveCode might be relevant, I find it takes me less time to suggest it to the site owner than it does for me to write about it here as something for someone else to do. Moreover, nominations to any such list will carry more weight when they come from happy users, rather than from the vendor directly where they're often seen as just cheap attempts to get free advertising. All SERPs can be useful, but organic SERPs are the ones worth pursuing. > I would suggest that instead of looking at dancing cats - i'm being > facetious here - just take a little time out to do what Richmond and > others did. Rather than post to this list about something simple I want to see happen, I'll often just do it. Saves everyone time, including me. > Here's a suggestion why don't RR hire one of these virtual assistants > that cost maybe $400 or $500 a month (it's not peanuts when a house > costs less than $15000 in the Philipines - so we are not using slave > labour) and give him the task of spreading the word full time 50 of > us paying $10 a month would do that and we save time arguing what > should be done - Im sure these last 2 postings have cost both of us > more than $10 in time. The LiveCode forums are spammed daily by "mechanical turks" hired to do that sort of thing for other companies. To make sure such listings are relevant requires good knowledge of what LiveCode is, and what it isn't, and the ability to tailor descriptions well for the specific target venue. I tend to use LC for a wide range of UI-related graphics work, as well as for charts, user journey maps, and other basic illustration tasks. But if I were to submit it to every list of drawing tools I come across I'd only annoy the site owners and disappoint those who download LiveCode expecting something other than an excellent multi-platform GUI app dev kit. LC is closer to authoring tools than to drawing tools, but out-of-the-box it's not quite the same thing. That's a bigger discussion than I have time for this morning, but perhaps the best way to appreciate how authoring tools like Adobe Captivate distinguish themselves from development tools it may be helpful to look at some of those distinctive features, which often include: - Thumbnail views - Ways to link views - Media import and integration - Presentation templates - Assessment templates - LMS integration All of those things can be built in LiveCode, and even in Microsoft Visual Studio, Delphi, XCode, and a wide range of other development tools. But in a development tool you'll need to program them yourself, while an authoring tool is a software in which its programmers have already delivered those features in a GUI. Some authoring tools provide a scripting language, but even when they do the successful ones offer it as an option, with critical-path authoring tasks well supported in the provided GUI. A big part of the xTalk work I've been doing for clients over the decades has been crafting authoring add-ons for the development tool. In each case the client has an established presentation appearance and flow in mind, and we build combinations of templates and tools to make production of interactive media for those flows much easier. With this experience I know firsthand how excellent a fit xTalks are for supporting authoring needs. And LiveCode is arguably the most capable of all, certainly offers the broadest platform coverage. But many of the features that distinguish authoring tools are not included in the out-of-the-box experience in most development tools, not even our favorite one. We can change that, of course. LiveCode is quite flexible, and offers an excellent foundation for building many things. One useful step in that direction is a community project in the EDU Outreach forum for assembling stacks that make the experience of developing software with LiveCode a bit closer to an authoring experience. > I totally agree with you on your main point that we can all get more > money but we can never get back our time - $500 a month to get the > word out, when RR is "in the best financial position in this decade", > come on now something doesn't add up - I would suggest no thinking > outside the box in marketing. Nothing need be put further back in the > queue. Being able to solidly move their development efforts forward does not necessarily equate to having piles of unused cash floating around. When prioritizing any activities for any business within the practical confines of our finite world, any good manager will consider opportunity cost: - From which current initiatives would you recommend they pull that $500 to cover the cost of this proposal? - And to guide future prioritization, what metrics would you suggest for assessing ROI relative to the tasks set aside? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From mail at richard-hillen.de Wed Aug 31 12:11:39 2016 From: mail at richard-hillen.de (Hillen Richard) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2016 18:11:39 +0200 Subject: Standalone stops running Message-ID: <144949E4-8763-4C68-890D-1F1558A00604@richard-hillen.de> Hello, in the beginning of this year I wrote on OS X 10.6. with Livecode 8.0.1 a splash stack (stack main and substack Data), which runs fine in the delveloper environment and as standalone. In the last week I changed a litte bit in the Data substack, using OS X 10.6.11, Livecode 8.0.2 again. It runs fine in the development environment. I made again an standalone of it, the App starts, shows the splash window and then stops, throws an Error: Executing at 5:52:18 PM on Wednesday, August 31, 2016 Type: Handler: error in statement Object: stack "/Users/hillen/Desktop/kompilieren/PK-Beitragsu?bersicht 2.0/PK-Beitragsu?bersicht 2.0.app/Contents/MacOS/PK-Beitragsu?bersicht 2.0" Line: open stack "Data" Line Num: 8 Hint: openstack In Main there is this simple script : on openstack show stack "main" wait 2 seconds open stack "Data" hide stack "main" end openstack I also tried to compile the changed stack with 8.0.1; It throws the same error. Now I am helpless; what should I try further on? If anyone wants to look at the stack, you will get it here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/btenoligdnb248l/aktuelle%20PK-Beitr%C3%A4ge_2.0.livecode.zip?dl=0 May you help? Thank you. Richard. From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Aug 31 12:31:32 2016 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2016 09:31:32 -0700 Subject: Standalone stops running In-Reply-To: <144949E4-8763-4C68-890D-1F1558A00604@richard-hillen.de> References: <144949E4-8763-4C68-890D-1F1558A00604@richard-hillen.de> Message-ID: <142caecc-2954-1d6a-9632-bccd1c893963@fourthworld.com> Hello Richard - I won't have time this morning to dissect the stack itself, but I have a hunch that may be useful: Your openstack handler refers to the "Data" stack by short name only, but it's a separate stack file, yes? That would require it to be listed in the stackFiles property of the stack used as the app ("Main"). Unless you're setting that elsewhere in script, perhaps you'd been relying on the Standalone Builder settings for that, and maybe that setting didn't carry over between versions. Of course that would be a bug, and perhaps one already fixed (they're up for 8.1 RC1 now), but in the meantime hopefully all you'll need to do is doubnle-check the stack files section of the Standalone Builder settings and re-establish the reference to the "Data" stack. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Hillen Richard wrote: > in the beginning of this year I wrote on OS X 10.6. with Livecode > 8.0.1 a splash stack (stack main and substack Data), which runs fine > in the delveloper environment and as standalone. > > In the last week I changed a litte bit in the Data substack, using OS > X 10.6.11, Livecode 8.0.2 again. It runs fine in the development > environment. > I made again an standalone of it, the App starts, shows the splash > window and then stops, throws an Error: > > Executing at 5:52:18 PM on Wednesday, August 31, 2016 > Type: Handler: error in statement > Object: stack "/Users/hillen/Desktop/kompilieren/PK-Beitragsu?bersicht 2.0/PK-Beitragsu?bersicht 2.0.app/Contents/MacOS/PK-Beitragsu?bersicht 2.0" > Line: open stack "Data" > Line Num: 8 > Hint: openstack > > > In Main there is this simple script : > on openstack > show stack "main" > wait 2 seconds > open stack "Data" > hide stack "main" > end openstack > > I also tried to compile the changed stack with 8.0.1; It throws the > same error. > > Now I am helpless; what should I try further on? > > If anyone wants to look at the stack, you will get it here: > > https://www.dropbox.com/s/btenoligdnb248l/aktuelle%20PK-Beitr%C3%A4ge_2.0.livecode.zip?dl=0 > > May you help? From klaus at major-k.de Wed Aug 31 12:45:27 2016 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2016 18:45:27 +0200 Subject: Standalone stops running In-Reply-To: <144949E4-8763-4C68-890D-1F1558A00604@richard-hillen.de> References: <144949E4-8763-4C68-890D-1F1558A00604@richard-hillen.de> Message-ID: <82A5F42B-D854-493E-8761-8D7D467F384D@major-k.de> Hallo Richard, > Am 31.08.2016 um 18:11 schrieb Hillen Richard : > > Hello, > > in the beginning of this year I wrote on OS X 10.6. with Livecode 8.0.1 a splash stack (stack main and substack Data), which runs fine in the delveloper environment and as standalone. > > In the last week I changed a litte bit in the Data substack, using OS X 10.6.11, Livecode 8.0.2 again. It runs fine in the development environment. > I made again an standalone of it, the App starts, shows the splash window and then stops, throws an Error: > > Executing at 5:52:18 PM on Wednesday, August 31, 2016 > Type: Handler: error in statement > Object: stack "/Users/hillen/Desktop/kompilieren/PK-Beitragsu?bersicht 2.0/PK-Beitragsu?bersicht 2.0.app/Contents/MacOS/PK-Beitragsu?bersicht 2.0" > Line: open stack "Data" > Line Num: 8 > Hint: openstack > > > In Main there is this simple script : > on openstack > show stack "main" > wait 2 seconds > open stack "Data" > hide stack "main" > end openstack > > I also tried to compile the changed stack with 8.0.1; It throws the same error. > > Now I am helpless; what should I try further on? > > If anyone wants to look at the stack, you will get it here: > > https://www.dropbox.com/s/btenoligdnb248l/aktuelle%20PK-Beitr%C3%A4ge_2.0.livecode.zip?dl=0 > > May you help? looks like it is as bad as I was afraid of when I read the filename: the ? umlaut is the culprit Wasn't there something like "Unicode, it just works"? 8-) This app runs fine: ../PK-Beitragsuebersicht 2.0/PK-Beitragsuebersicht 2.0.app These don't: ../PK-Beitrags?bersicht 2.0/PK-Beitragsuebersicht 2.0.app ../PK-Beitragsuebersicht 2.0/PK-Beitrags?bersicht 2.0.app Is the OS X Umlaut bug back? > Thank you. Richard. Best Klaus -- Klaus Major http://www.major-k.de klaus at major-k.de From dochawk at gmail.com Wed Aug 31 14:13:16 2016 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2016 11:13:16 -0700 Subject: postgres "serial primary key" recycling values Message-ID: I create my table with *CREATE TABLE dhdbt_testy_xxiv_______001 (unqKy SERIAL PRIMARY KEY, ktyp * * CHAR(1), kywd VARCHAR(50) UNIQUE, usr VARCHAR(20), tstmp TIMESTAMP WITH * * TIME ZONE, scr TEXT, dltd BOOLEAN, cmd TEXT );* *ALTER TABLE dhdbt_testy_xxiv_______001 OWNER TO hawk ;* *INSERT INTO dhdbt_testy_xxiv_______001(kywd, unqKy, ktyp, cmd) VALUES * * ('ckDinfo', 1, 'M', '100000a');* *INSERT INTO dhdbt_testy_xxiv_______001(kywd, unqKy, ktyp, cmd) VALUES * * ('ckDna',2, 'M', '100000a');* *INSERT INTO dhdbt_testy_xxiv_______001(kywd, unqKy, ktyp, cmd) VALUES* * ('ckCap',1000, 'M', '100000a');* IN another routine, I check with *ck revDataFromQuery(,,debtorDb,**"SELECT * FROM "** & dhtbl_dbtr)* yielding *1 M ckDinfo 100000a* *2 M ckDna 100000a* *1000 M ckCap 100000a* so far, so good. But then *DELETE FROM dhdbt_testy_xxiv_______001 WHERE kywd='hasB_19';* *INSERT INTO dhdbt_testy_xxiv_______001 (kywd, ktyp, tstmp , cmd) * * VALUES('hasB_19', 'I', NOW(), 'INSERT INTO testy_xxiv_______001_dinfo * * (kywd, dTyp, tstmp ) VALUES(''hasB_19'', ''B'', ''' || NOW() || ''');* * ');* has the result *ERROR: duplicate key value violates unique constraint "dhdbt_testy_xxiv_______001_pkey"* *DETAIL: Key (unqky)=(1) already exists.* This code has been working for months or years, and now I"m getting this failure. It's talking to the same postgres server on my machine that it's been talking to for months. (the download for OS X from postgres itself, version 9.3) unqKy gets defined in the create table, and *should* be advancing to the next available value, which I believe is 1001 (which is why that ckCap is there; to reserve lower values for me) -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From dochawk at gmail.com Wed Aug 31 17:31:46 2016 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2016 14:31:46 -0700 Subject: postgres "serial primary key" recycling values In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I think I see what is happening. The nextval() in postgres does *not* consider the numbers in use in the sequence; I thought it had. So adding put "ALTER SEQUENCE " & dhtbl_dbtr & "_unqKy_seq RESTART WITH 1001;" & cr after dcmd Instead of inserting ckCap solves the problem. I tried MIN(1001, MAX(unqKy)) but it didn't like the min On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 11:13 AM, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > > I create my table with > > *CREATE TABLE dhdbt_testy_xxiv_______001 (unqKy SERIAL PRIMARY KEY, ktyp > * > > * CHAR(1), kywd VARCHAR(50) UNIQUE, usr VARCHAR(20), tstmp TIMESTAMP > WITH * > > * TIME ZONE, scr TEXT, dltd BOOLEAN, cmd TEXT );* > > *ALTER TABLE dhdbt_testy_xxiv_______001 OWNER TO hawk ;* > > *INSERT INTO dhdbt_testy_xxiv_______001(kywd, unqKy, ktyp, cmd) VALUES * > > * ('ckDinfo', 1, 'M', '100000a');* > > *INSERT INTO dhdbt_testy_xxiv_______001(kywd, unqKy, ktyp, cmd) VALUES * > > * ('ckDna',2, 'M', '100000a');* > > *INSERT INTO dhdbt_testy_xxiv_______001(kywd, unqKy, ktyp, cmd) VALUES* > > * ('ckCap',1000, 'M', '100000a');* > > IN another routine, I check with > > *ck revDataFromQuery(,,debtorDb,**"SELECT * FROM "** & dhtbl_dbtr)* > > > yielding > > *1 M ckDinfo 100000a* > > *2 M ckDna 100000a* > > *1000 M ckCap 100000a* > > > so far, so good. > > But then > > *DELETE FROM dhdbt_testy_xxiv_______001 WHERE kywd='hasB_19';* > > *INSERT INTO dhdbt_testy_xxiv_______001 (kywd, ktyp, tstmp , cmd) * > > * VALUES('hasB_19', 'I', NOW(), 'INSERT INTO testy_xxiv_______001_dinfo * > > * (kywd, dTyp, tstmp ) VALUES(''hasB_19'', ''B'', ''' || NOW() || ''');* > > * ');* > > has the result > > *ERROR: duplicate key value violates unique constraint > "dhdbt_testy_xxiv_______001_pkey"* > > *DETAIL: Key (unqky)=(1) already exists.* > > > This code has been working for months or years, and now I"m getting this > failure. > > It's talking to the same postgres server on my machine that it's been > talking to for months. (the download for OS X from postgres itself, > version 9.3) > > unqKy gets defined in the create table, and *should* be advancing to the > next available value, which I believe is 1001 (which is why that ckCap is > there; to reserve lower values for me) > > -- > Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. > (702) 508-8462 > -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Wed Aug 31 19:27:22 2016 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2016 23:27:22 +0000 Subject: Standalone stops running In-Reply-To: <82A5F42B-D854-493E-8761-8D7D467F384D@major-k.de> References: <144949E4-8763-4C68-890D-1F1558A00604@richard-hillen.de> <82A5F42B-D854-493E-8761-8D7D467F384D@major-k.de> Message-ID: <4FFD2E23-2340-44FD-A73F-5BC2B0DE16CB@iotecdigital.com> Again I cite a basic principle in file naming: No special characters, no spaces. I know that for many languages an umlat is not considered a special character, but a computer doesn't know anything about that. Now maybe it works and you don't have a problem. Might work for years, and then you do something different with the file and it doesn't. So I always use a-z, A_Z, 0-9 _ and - and NOTHING ELSE. I don't even like using spaces if I can help it. Bob S On Aug 31, 2016, at 09:45 , Klaus major-k > wrote: looks like it is as bad as I was afraid of when I read the filename: the ? umlaut is the culprit Wasn't there something like "Unicode, it just works"? 8-) This app runs fine: ../PK-Beitragsuebersicht 2.0/PK-Beitragsuebersicht 2.0.app These don't: ../PK-Beitrags?bersicht 2.0/PK-Beitragsuebersicht 2.0.app ../PK-Beitragsuebersicht 2.0/PK-Beitrags?bersicht 2.0.app Is the OS X Umlaut bug back? From dochawk at gmail.com Wed Aug 31 19:44:29 2016 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2016 16:44:29 -0700 Subject: Standalone stops running In-Reply-To: <4FFD2E23-2340-44FD-A73F-5BC2B0DE16CB@iotecdigital.com> References: <144949E4-8763-4C68-890D-1F1558A00604@richard-hillen.de> <82A5F42B-D854-493E-8761-8D7D467F384D@major-k.de> <4FFD2E23-2340-44FD-A73F-5BC2B0DE16CB@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 4:27 PM, Bob Sneidar wrote: > So I always use a-z, A_Z, 0-9 _ and - and NOTHING ELSE. I don't even like > using spaces if I can help it. > I allow periods, but not hyphens. I've used things over the year where they have meaning . . . -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From irog at mac.com Wed Aug 31 21:43:57 2016 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2016 18:43:57 -0700 Subject: Set the fillGradient .... In-Reply-To: <97ACCEA8-23BA-4B70-B253-234C3525D0FD@mac.com> References: <66e2ac60-4604-39e1-a229-0f3f6ed125fc@gmail.com> <3eb57934-0d08-6e89-0583-2721e5b2064c@gmail.com> <79985ed3-a6b5-3df5-5a9f-979f7c8fb139@gmail.com> <1D8C3FAD-6CED-40FE-8DEF-9EB4D9D178C5@mac.com> <43c1a65e-39bc-4bfb-2e84-de556055275e@pdslabs.net> <97ACCEA8-23BA-4B70-B253-234C3525D0FD@mac.com> Message-ID: Why does this not work? Set the fillGradient of grc ?noGradientYet" to the fillGradient of grc ?NiceGradient?. Something happens . . . indeed the object browser seems to show that they have the same gradient, yet they don?t! Probably something simple, again. LC 8.0.2 and Mac Thanks, Roger From scott at tactilemedia.com Wed Aug 31 21:49:22 2016 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2016 18:49:22 -0700 Subject: Set the fillGradient .... In-Reply-To: References: <66e2ac60-4604-39e1-a229-0f3f6ed125fc@gmail.com> <3eb57934-0d08-6e89-0583-2721e5b2064c@gmail.com> <79985ed3-a6b5-3df5-5a9f-979f7c8fb139@gmail.com> <1D8C3FAD-6CED-40FE-8DEF-9EB4D9D178C5@mac.com> <43c1a65e-39bc-4bfb-2e84-de556055275e@pdslabs.net> <97ACCEA8-23BA-4B70-B253-234C3525D0FD@mac.com> Message-ID: Is the noGradientYet graphic opaque? Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media UX/UI Design > On Aug 31, 2016, at 6:43 PM, Roger Guay wrote: > > Why does this not work? > > Set the fillGradient of grc ?noGradientYet" to the fillGradient of grc ?NiceGradient?. > > Something happens . . . indeed the object browser seems to show that they have the same gradient, yet they don?t! > > Probably something simple, again. > > LC 8.0.2 and Mac > > > Thanks, > > Roger > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bonnmike at gmail.com Wed Aug 31 22:00:08 2016 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2016 20:00:08 -0600 Subject: Extremely OT: Transceiver for sale Message-ID: Hey all, sorry for the off topic, but I figure the amount of brains and wide range of interests in this group.. I might as well see if anyone wants some electronics. (if not I'll ebay them) I recently bought a used ambulance (yes really) and am modifying things for disability camping. It came with the radio equipment minus the head unit. I believe its dual band (2 parts, connected by cable) uhf and vhf, and apparently programmable (if you know someone who can) for ham bands. The cable that would have went to the head unit has been cut, but the cable is affordable. I'd actually prefer to keep it and set it up (sans mic) as a scanner, but selling will help offset the cost of retrofitting the ambulance for my needs. To see what i'm talking about, look up kenwood tk 790h. (2 of them as mentioned, linked together) The antennas are here too, but the chances I can remove them from the ambulance in a timely fashion (aka work up the nerve to beg for help..) is slim. If interested, let me know, if not feel free to ignore this. From irog at mac.com Wed Aug 31 22:10:53 2016 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2016 19:10:53 -0700 Subject: Set the fillGradient .... In-Reply-To: References: <66e2ac60-4604-39e1-a229-0f3f6ed125fc@gmail.com> <3eb57934-0d08-6e89-0583-2721e5b2064c@gmail.com> <79985ed3-a6b5-3df5-5a9f-979f7c8fb139@gmail.com> <1D8C3FAD-6CED-40FE-8DEF-9EB4D9D178C5@mac.com> <43c1a65e-39bc-4bfb-2e84-de556055275e@pdslabs.net> <97ACCEA8-23BA-4B70-B253-234C3525D0FD@mac.com> Message-ID: <5B8AADA9-0286-44B4-ADA3-31A1422D72D2@mac.com> Yes it is. > On Aug 31, 2016, at 6:49 PM, Scott Rossi wrote: > > Is the noGradientYet graphic opaque? > > > Scott Rossi > Creative Director > Tactile Media UX/UI Design > >> On Aug 31, 2016, at 6:43 PM, Roger Guay wrote: >> >> Why does this not work? >> >> Set the fillGradient of grc ?noGradientYet" to the fillGradient of grc ?NiceGradient?. >> >> Something happens . . . indeed the object browser seems to show that they have the same gradient, yet they don?t! >> >> Probably something simple, again. >> >> LC 8.0.2 and Mac >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Roger >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode