Licensing issues [was: Re: LC 8 DP 11]

sanke at sanke at
Fri Dec 18 12:38:22 EST 2015

On Mon, 14 Dec 2015 11:35:50 Mark Waddingham<mark at>  wrote
in response to Peter Brett:


>> On 2015-12-14 11:21, Peter TB Brett wrote:
>> Hi Wilhelm,
>>> I find this newly installed monitoring process controlling the
>>> validity
>>> of older, but already fully installed versions an outright
>>> unnnecessary
>>> nuisance. Is this part of the new licensing policies that restrict the
>>> use of  LC-Indy versions to the license span you have paid for? I have
>>> got a commercial version extending until August 2016, which - as I
>>> understand it - enables me to use (and produce standalones) with this
>>> commercial version even beyond August 2016.
>> I'm afraid that that's not correct -- when your current commercial
>> license expires in August 2016, you will not be able to use any
>> commercial version of LiveCode or use them to create standalones
>> unless you renew your license.
> This isn't quite correct - it depends on the type of commercial license
> you received for each LiveCode version you have bought in the past. All
> licensing issues are best dealt with by contactingsupport at  
> - so please use that channel in future rather than the mailing list.
> Up until the subscription model style license was introduced, the
> LiveCode Commercial License was perpetual per version. i.e. If you had a
> license for a particular version when it was released you can continue
> to use it forever. Since the subcription model style license was
> introduced, there are no (new) perpetual licenses - your right to use a
> commercial version of LiveCode which you have received under the new
> style license ceases as soon as that license lapses.

Hi Peter and Mark,

There we have two different views on this problem from two members of 
the Livecode team, and I am inclined to judge that Mark is fully right here.

I aquired my present "perpetual" commercial license in 2012 - valid 
until August 2013 -, which was then prolonged until August 15, 2016,  
because of my contributions to the Kickstarter campaign in 2013.

Today I asked Kevin to clarify this issue, writing
> Another related question needs to be clarified from your side. To my 
> knowledge (and we had  a general conversation about this on the lists 
> some time ago)
> 1. a once purchased commercial version allowed to produce standalones 
> even after the point in time the license had "expired". and
> 2.  of course it did not allow - this was never questioned - to get 
> updates and upgrades after the expiration date
> This is common practice for other software producers as well (as 
> examples: Photoshop, PaintshopPro, Dreamweaver etc.)  even if they 
> have meanwhile changed the rules for "new" licenses. Adobe has also 
> switched to a "subscription" model, but the previously bought and 
> licensed versions can of course continued to be used forever.
> In the light of these legal conditions I think that the information in 
> the Livecode FAQ
> (URL: 
> <>_ 
> _
> "Can I continue to build closed source apps if my Commercial license 
> expires?"
> needs to be corrected to that effect that the respective FAQ-text only 
> applies to *newly* bought "Commercial"  (or Indy and Business) licenses.

I hope very much I get an answer from Kevin that confirms Mark's view.

Another question I asked Kevin were the terms of use for my new 
Indy-license, which starts on August 16, 2016, and is valid until August 
15, 2018. I wrote:

> I am used to have Livecode available for development both at home and 
> office, and additionally on a laptop when traveling, and such a work 
> environment is essential for me.
> The least I expect from the side of Livecode is that my present 
> commercial license until August 15, 2016, and its conditions are 
> respected. I would be forced to think about how to proceed in case the 
> Indy-license only allows Livecode to be installed on only one 
> computer. My decision in such a situation would not exclude the 
> possibility to revoke my added Indy license (I think you would be so 
> nice to "refund" me) and look for other development tools for my 
> further work and intentions.

I surely cannot afford the present Business license, but could live with 
a new Indy-license starting August 2016, provided the Indy license 
allows me to install Livecode - and different versions of it - more than 
one time on one or more computers. If this condition cannot be met 
(along with the possibility to perpetually use a kind of commercial 
available until August 15, 2016) I feel forced to end my long-time 
relationship of about 20 years with  Hypercard, Metacard, Revolution, 
and Livecode, which indeed was a valuable part of my professional work 
and private interests.

I think the focus of any new marketing strategy should first be to 
produce and deliver a stable product and only then think about 
increasing  profits, but thereby avoiding to impose severe restrictions 
on longtime and loyal supporters.

Best regards,

Wilhelm Sanke

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