From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat Aug 1 02:05:42 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2015 01:05:42 -0500 Subject: restore selection from selectedChunk expression In-Reply-To: <55BBFC45.3070701@hindu.org> References: <55BBFC45.3070701@hindu.org> Message-ID: <55BC61B6.5040403@hyperactivesw.com> On 7/31/2015 5:52 PM, Brahmanathaswami wrote: > If we make a text selection and store it as a selectedChunk string > > e.g > > gCurrentSelection > > > which them would have say... a value of > > char 669 to 1094 of field 6 > > How to I re-select that text? > > global gCurrentSelection > on mouseUp > set the backgroundcolor of gCurrentSelection to yellow > end mouseUp > > works' > > but > > global gCurrentSelection > on mouseUp > selectgCurrentSelection > end mouseUp > > does not... an i can't find a way to re-set the selection .... I like to avoid "do" because that requires an on-the-fly compilation, so I generally use this: set the backgroundcolor of char (word 2 of gCurrentSelection) to (word 4 of gCurrentSelection) of fld "somefield" to "yellow" Or if the field will vary: set the backgroundcolor of char (word 2 of gCurrentSelection) to (word 4 of gCurrentSelection) of fld (last word of gCurrentSelection) to "yellow" -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From brahma at hindu.org Sat Aug 1 04:01:55 2015 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2015 22:01:55 -1000 Subject: restore selection from selectedChunk expression In-Reply-To: <55BC61B6.5040403@hyperactivesw.com> References: <55BBFC45.3070701@hindu.org> <55BC61B6.5040403@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <8023756726264437338@unknownmsgid> Set the backgroundcolor of gCurrentSelection to yellow Works as is Swasti Astu, Be Well Brahmanathaswami www.himalayanacademy.com > On Jul 31, 2015, at 8:05 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > >> On 7/31/2015 5:52 PM, Brahmanathaswami wrote: >> If we make a text selection and store it as a selectedChunk string >> >> e.g >> >> gCurrentSelection >> >> >> which them would have say... a value of >> >> char 669 to 1094 of field 6 >> >> How to I re-select that text? >> >> global gCurrentSelection >> on mouseUp >> set the backgroundcolor of gCurrentSelection to yellow >> end mouseUp >> >> works' >> >> but >> >> global gCurrentSelection >> on mouseUp >> selectgCurrentSelection >> end mouseUp >> >> does not... an i can't find a way to re-set the selection .... > > I like to avoid "do" because that requires an on-the-fly compilation, so I generally use this: > > set the backgroundcolor of char (word 2 of gCurrentSelection) to (word 4 of gCurrentSelection) of fld "somefield" to "yellow" > > Or if the field will vary: > > set the backgroundcolor of char (word 2 of gCurrentSelection) to (word 4 of gCurrentSelection) of fld (last word of gCurrentSelection) to "yellow" > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From brahma at hindu.org Sat Aug 1 04:05:41 2015 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2015 22:05:41 -1000 Subject: restore selection from selectedChunk expression In-Reply-To: <55BC61B6.5040403@hyperactivesw.com> References: <55BBFC45.3070701@hindu.org> <55BC61B6.5040403@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <-8090797401246606910@unknownmsgid> But I want to re-select the text later, not set the background color BR > On Jul 31, 2015, at 8:05 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > >> On 7/31/2015 5:52 PM, Brahmanathaswami wrote: >> If we make a text selection and store it as a selectedChunk string >> >> e.g >> >> gCurrentSelection >> >> >> which them would have say... a value of >> >> char 669 to 1094 of field 6 >> >> How to I re-select that text? >> >> global gCurrentSelection >> on mouseUp >> set the backgroundcolor of gCurrentSelection to yellow >> end mouseUp >> >> works' >> >> but >> >> global gCurrentSelection >> on mouseUp >> selectgCurrentSelection >> end mouseUp >> >> does not... an i can't find a way to re-set the selection .... > > I like to avoid "do" because that requires an on-the-fly compilation, so I generally use this: > > set the backgroundcolor of char (word 2 of gCurrentSelection) to (word 4 of gCurrentSelection) of fld "somefield" to "yellow" > > Or if the field will vary: > > set the backgroundcolor of char (word 2 of gCurrentSelection) to (word 4 of gCurrentSelection) of fld (last word of gCurrentSelection) to "yellow" > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From brahma at hindu.org Sat Aug 1 04:53:40 2015 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2015 22:53:40 -1000 Subject: OT-ish: Dreamhost and LiveCode? In-Reply-To: <55BC0BB9.6090904@tweedly.net> References: <62BBB115-C4DB-470E-A885-F0E096DF4869@mac.com> <55BB8039.6010504@tweedly.org> <55BC0BB9.6090904@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <-7822620683791776299@unknownmsgid> We're using Linode now. SSD's very fast. Great support. Great price. Your server comes lean so you need to know a little Linux sys admin but Ubuntu is turning out to be easy. Install virtualMin and you can do most everything from your control panel. It is IMHO the best of them (and I have used Cpanel, Ensim, and Plesk all big headaches gone with virtualMin) Yes you can choose your continent with Linode. Swasti Astu, Be Well Brahmanathaswami www.himalayanacademy.com > On Jul 31, 2015, at 1:59 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote: > > I've never asked. I can't see why they wouldn't allow it. > > -- Alex. > > On 31/07/2015 16:48, jbv at souslelogo.com wrote: >>> I've been happy with hostm.com - Livecode pre-installed and servers in >>> Americas, Europe and Pacific Rim. >>> >>> -- Alex. >> Alex, >> Just curious : is it possible to chose a server on a specific continent ? >> >> Thanks >> jbv >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at livecode.org Sat Aug 1 11:53:44 2015 From: paul at livecode.org (Paul Hibbert) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2015 08:53:44 -0700 Subject: restore selection from selectedChunk expression In-Reply-To: <-8090797401246606910@unknownmsgid> References: <55BBFC45.3070701@hindu.org> <55BC61B6.5040403@hyperactivesw.com> <-8090797401246606910@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: Jacque demonstrated a point, you don?t have to use the whole of gCurrentSelection as part of the script in one go, you can extract the parts you need to reconstruct the selection, it?s pretty easy to adapt the examples she gave; select char (word 2 of gCurrentSelection) to (word 4 of gCurrentSelection) of fld (last word of gCurrentSelection) Paul > On Aug 1, 2015, at 01:05, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote: > > But I want to re-select the text later, > not set the background color > > BR > > > >> On Jul 31, 2015, at 8:05 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: >> >>> On 7/31/2015 5:52 PM, Brahmanathaswami wrote: >>> If we make a text selection and store it as a selectedChunk string >>> >>> e.g >>> >>> gCurrentSelection >>> >>> >>> which them would have say... a value of >>> >>> char 669 to 1094 of field 6 >>> >>> How to I re-select that text? >>> >>> global gCurrentSelection >>> on mouseUp >>> set the backgroundcolor of gCurrentSelection to yellow >>> end mouseUp >>> >>> works' >>> >>> but >>> >>> global gCurrentSelection >>> on mouseUp >>> selectgCurrentSelection >>> end mouseUp >>> >>> does not... an i can't find a way to re-set the selection .... >> >> I like to avoid "do" because that requires an on-the-fly compilation, so I generally use this: >> >> set the backgroundcolor of char (word 2 of gCurrentSelection) to (word 4 of gCurrentSelection) of fld "somefield" to "yellow" >> >> Or if the field will vary: >> >> set the backgroundcolor of char (word 2 of gCurrentSelection) to (word 4 of gCurrentSelection) of fld (last word of gCurrentSelection) to "yellow" >> >> -- >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode Regards, Paul Hibbert paul at livecode.org From paul at researchware.com Sat Aug 1 12:06:11 2015 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2015 12:06:11 -0400 Subject: restore selection from selectedChunk expression In-Reply-To: <55BBFC45.3070701@hindu.org> References: <55BBFC45.3070701@hindu.org> Message-ID: <55BCEE73.5060001@researchware.com> On 7/31/2015 6:52 PM, Brahmanathaswami wrote: > > global gCurrentSelection > on mouseUp > selectgCurrentSelection > end mouseUp > > does not... an i can't find a way to re-set the selection .... > In LiveCode 6.7.5, I just created a test stack with the following: A field with some text in it and 2 buttons with the following scripts: Button 1 on mouseUp global gSelectedChunk put the selectedChunk into gSelectedChunk end mouseUp Button 2 on mouseUp global gSelectedChunk select gSelectedChunk end mosueUp Selecting some text, clicking button 1, clicking elsewhere in the field to deselect (so I can see if button 2 works) and clicking button 2, correctly select the chuck originally selected. What version of LC are you using? Perhaps being unable to execute "select gCurrentSelection" (assuming gCurrentSelection has a valid chunk expression) is a bug fixed in later version of LC. From revolution at derbrill.de Sat Aug 1 14:35:56 2015 From: revolution at derbrill.de (Malte Brill) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2015 20:35:56 +0200 Subject: Active Directory... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi folks, I need some help (again). Has anybody of you written something to read the active directory info under Win? I would need info on the user(s) and which groups they are in. Request is to have a log in system based on active directory entries. I am totally newbie when it comes to AD, so any help would be much appreciated. All the best, Malte From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat Aug 1 15:29:55 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2015 14:29:55 -0500 Subject: restore selection from selectedChunk expression In-Reply-To: <-8090797401246606910@unknownmsgid> References: <55BBFC45.3070701@hindu.org> <55BC61B6.5040403@hyperactivesw.com> <-8090797401246606910@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <55BD1E33.9010707@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/1/2015 3:05 AM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote: > But I want to re-select the text later, > not set the background color Sorry, I looked at the wrong part of your original message. As mentioned, changing my example to "select" is easy. I needed to select text the way I suggested back in LC 6.6.5 but I just tried it in 7.0.6 and it isn't needed any more (or else I did something wrong back in 6.6.5 that made me think it was needed.) At any rate, this seems to work fine in 7.x: select gCurrentSelection Which someone else also mentioned. I forget who that was but they were right. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From dochawk at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 15:31:52 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2015 12:31:52 -0700 Subject: Lock messages, and I mean it, damnit! Message-ID: Is there a way to lock messages and make it stick? In my quit routine so shut down, I handle some matters and then lock messages quit The error aren't visible in the standalone, but in the IDE, the open stacks still get closeCard sent to them, causing error (because I've already shut down the services) -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Sat Aug 1 15:34:09 2015 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe | M-R-D) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2015 21:34:09 +0200 Subject: Active Directory... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Malte, i am also not familiar with AD, but you could use powershell. See http://www.tomsitpro.com/articles/powershell-active-directory-cmdlets,2-801.html HTH, Matthias > Am 01.08.2015 um 20:35 schrieb Malte Brill : > > Hi folks, > > I need some help (again). Has anybody of you written something to read the active directory info under Win? I would need info on the user(s) and which groups they are in. Request is to have a log in system based on active directory entries. I am totally newbie when it comes to AD, so any help would be much appreciated. > > All the best, > > Malte > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From scott at tactilemedia.com Sat Aug 1 16:17:10 2015 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2015 13:17:10 -0700 Subject: Lock messages, and I mean it, damnit! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Perhaps you're getting a script error somewhere other than your closeCard handlers. A simple test here of closing a substack that executes a basic event during closeCard works as expected. If you have multiple stacks to close, you might try closing them one-by-one individually and see if one causes the error. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design On 8/1/15, 12:31 PM, "Dr. Hawkins" wrote: >Is there a way to lock messages and make it stick? > >In my quit routine so shut down, I handle some matters and then > >lock messages > >quit > > >The error aren't visible in the standalone, but in the IDE, the open >stacks >still get closeCard sent to them, causing error (because I've already shut >down the services) > > >-- >Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. >(702) 508-8462 >_______________________________________________ >use-livecode mailing list >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dochawk at gmail.com Sat Aug 1 18:05:09 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2015 15:05:09 -0700 Subject: Lock messages, and I mean it, damnit! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, Aug 1, 2015 at 1:17 PM, Scott Rossi wrote: > Perhaps you're getting a script error somewhere other than your closeCard > handlers. A simple test here of closing a substack that executes a basic > event during closeCard works as expected. > Those were the absolutely last two cards of my program; it should be done. Nonetheless, closeCard happens for at least one of my stacks. It calls my getVal() function, which attempts to use the database that I closed before lockMessages. a simple click in the IDE shows the line where it was called from closeCard of stack dInfo. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sat Aug 1 20:03:20 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2015 17:03:20 -0700 Subject: OT-ish: Dreamhost and LiveCode? In-Reply-To: <55BC0CB5.7020008@tweedly.net> References: <55BC0CB5.7020008@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <55BD5E48.1080502@fourthworld.com> Alex Tweedly wrote: > If the issue is just with fonts, why have the flag be "-g" to turn > off all graphics ? > Why not "-f" to turn off font initialization ? "g" is for greedy. :) To use fonts requires graphics support, and since most CGIs don't use graphics at all it seemed expedient to consider an option to turn off all graphics-related operations during init. That said, you do have a compelling edge case here: > I have a number of scripts that render graphics (resize images, > on-the-fly thumbnails, etc.) but none that need to render fonts, > and I'd imagine there are various other reasons why you might want > to keep some graphics capabilities without ever needing to do > anything with text+graphics on a server Of the subset of CGI scripters who need graphics, there may be others like yourself in the subset of that subset who don't also need fonts. If you feel strongly about that please submit the proposed "-f" as a comment in the report: I don't have a strong opinion either way, but my main interest is in finding a solution that optimized boot time as much as possible. If non-font-related-graphics init is trivial, I'd be fine with a no-font-only option. How much of a performance difference have you measured specific to init time with v7.x over v6.x? And on which hosting service? I'm keeping detailed noted on this until it's resolved. > btw - I agree with Malte it should (somehow) be done per-script > rather than more globally. Malte's solution was to handle this in LiveCode scripting, but my understanding is that font and other graphics init happens before script interpretation is possible. Attempting to move that init process until after the script subsystem is initialized seems like a lot more work than I'm hoping for with a simplest-to-implement interim solution. Fortunately, for the subset of CGI scripters who need graphics support, and the subset of those running on configurations that exhibit this sort of slowdown, and the subset of those who need to mix graphics and non-graphics scripts, there are at least two options that come to mind, possibly more: If you put the scripts that need graphics support in a different folder from those that don't, just use a different .htaccess file in each. If you're in the subset of the subset of the subset of the subset who absolutely must put all scripts into a single folder whether they need graphics support or not, remember that the labels used in the .htaccess directives for file type handling are purely arbitrary, allowing you to support two (or three or a hundred) different file types, which could be distinguished by whether they need graphics support, e.g.: AddHandler livecode-script-without-graphics .lc Action livecode-script-without-graphics /cgi-bin/livecode-server -g AddHandler livecode-script-with-graphics .lcg Action livecode-script-with-graphics /cgi-bin/livecode-server Please keep in mind that this option I've proposed, whether it be "-g" or "-f" or whatever, is just a quick solution for the relatively small number of people who have reported serious increases in init time. Mark Waddingham has already expressed a keen interest in making the engine smart enough to handle these things without us having to change anything at all. My interest here is in finding a suitable short-term solution that could be done by the engine team in two hours or less. Given the necessity of using v7 on modern 64-bit servers, and the growing interest in client-server systems, it would seem even an imperfect solution today would be better than a perfect solution several months from now. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From revdev at pdslabs.net Sat Aug 1 21:12:09 2015 From: revdev at pdslabs.net (Phil Davis) Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2015 18:12:09 -0700 Subject: Lock messages, and I mean it, damnit! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55BD6E69.1060007@pdslabs.net> I naively ask: What happens if you shut down services after everything is closed, instead of before? Would that cause other problems? Phil Davis On 8/1/15 12:31 PM, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > Is there a way to lock messages and make it stick? > > In my quit routine so shut down, I handle some matters and then > > lock messages > > quit > > > The error aren't visible in the standalone, but in the IDE, the open stacks > still get closeCard sent to them, causing error (because I've already shut > down the services) > > -- Phil Davis From Mark_Smith at cpe.umanitoba.ca Sat Aug 1 22:00:56 2015 From: Mark_Smith at cpe.umanitoba.ca (Mark Smith) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2015 19:00:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Livecode on Raspberry Pi 2 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1438480856968-4694552.post@n4.nabble.com> What OS are you running it with? -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Livecode-on-Raspberry-Pi-2-tp4694398p4694552.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From david at viral.academy Sun Aug 2 10:40:18 2015 From: david at viral.academy (David Bovill) Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2015 14:40:18 +0000 Subject: Livecode on Raspberry Pi 2 In-Reply-To: <1438480856968-4694552.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1438480856968-4694552.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: Hey Mark - it was just Noobs I believe - will be trying it with others. I tried it on B - and it sort of worked OK, the version of Raspberry Pi 2 just worked though. On Sun, 2 Aug 2015 at 03:03 Mark Smith wrote: > What OS are you running it with? > > > > -- > View this message in context: > http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Livecode-on-Raspberry-Pi-2-tp4694398p4694552.html > Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From david at viral.academy Sun Aug 2 10:40:18 2015 From: david at viral.academy (David Bovill) Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2015 14:40:18 +0000 Subject: Livecode on Raspberry Pi 2 In-Reply-To: <1438480856968-4694552.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1438480856968-4694552.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: Hey Mark - it was just Noobs I believe - will be trying it with others. I tried it on B - and it sort of worked OK, the version of Raspberry Pi 2 just worked though. On Sun, 2 Aug 2015 at 03:03 Mark Smith wrote: > What OS are you running it with? > > > > -- > View this message in context: > http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Livecode-on-Raspberry-Pi-2-tp4694398p4694552.html > Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From lists at mangomultimedia.com Sun Aug 2 12:16:36 2015 From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2015 12:16:36 -0400 Subject: Active Directory... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, Aug 1, 2015 at 2:35 PM, Malte Brill wrote: > > I need some help (again). Has anybody of you written something to read the > active directory info under Win? I would need info on the user(s) and which > groups they are in. Request is to have a log in system based on active > directory entries. I am totally newbie when it comes to AD, so any help > would be much appreciated. > Malte, I dug up some old code that I used years ago and created a gist. Here is the link: https://gist.github.com/trevordevore/9ff3ac35bd6a2eef2f3d I used this code to check if a user could log into my software. It was a custom property and wherever you see [[..]] then it is a variable that I replaced. Here is what the code looks like: ############## put the uActiveServerLoginVBScript of me into theScript replace "[[Domain]]" with theConfigA["settings"]["credential provider domain"] in theScript -- "directory.something.corp:389" replace "[[Query]]" with theConfigA["settings"]["credential provider query"] in theScript -- "ou=Users,dc=something,dc=corp" replace "[[Username]]" with pProjectA["credentials"]["login"] in theScript replace "[[Password]]" with wgdb_decryptString(pProjectA["credentials"]["password"]) in theScript replace "[[UserKey]]" with theConfigA["settings"]["credential provider user query key"] in theScript do theScript as "vbscript" if the result begins with "error," then put item 2 to -1 of the result into theError else put the result into theADUserInfo ## last name, first name & cr & group & tab & group ... -- CN=,OU=Groups,DC=,DC=corp end if ############## Hopefully this will provide some sort of starting point. -- Trevor DeVore ScreenSteps www.screensteps.com - www.clarify-it.com From brahma at hindu.org Sun Aug 2 16:44:42 2015 From: brahma at hindu.org (Brahmanathaswami) Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2015 10:44:42 -1000 Subject: Scroll type with swipe up on mobile (no scroll bar) Message-ID: <55BE813A.2050001@hindu.org> I have an up-and-coming use case where we will put quotes into a field and if there is more text we just want the user to be able to swipe up on the text with their thumb of finger to see the rest of the text...without a scroll bar. (too ugly) Has anyone done this already? Swasti Astu, Be Well! Brahmanathaswami Kauai's Hindu Monastery www.HimalayanAcademy.com From scott at tactilemedia.com Sun Aug 2 17:47:41 2015 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2015 14:47:41 -0700 Subject: Multiple Tab Alignments? Message-ID: Is it possible yet to have varying tab alignments in a field? In other words, some tabStops aligned left and some aligned right? Thanks & Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sun Aug 2 18:16:09 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2015 15:16:09 -0700 Subject: Multiple Tab Alignments? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55BE96A9.4080804@fourthworld.com> Scott Rossi wrote: > Is it possible yet to have varying tab alignments in a field? In > other words, some tabStops aligned left and some aligned right? See the tabAlign property in v7.0 and later. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From scott at tactilemedia.com Sun Aug 2 20:39:24 2015 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2015 17:39:24 -0700 Subject: Multiple Tab Alignments? In-Reply-To: <55BE96A9.4080804@fourthworld.com> References: <55BE96A9.4080804@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Thanks for this. I just discovered the padding property introduced in 5.5, and now have a "real world" table using a single field. Nice :-) Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design On 8/2/15, 3:16 PM, "Richard Gaskin" wrote: >Scott Rossi wrote: > > > Is it possible yet to have varying tab alignments in a field? In > > other words, some tabStops aligned left and some aligned right? > >See the tabAlign property in v7.0 and later. > >-- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > >_______________________________________________ >use-livecode mailing list >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From pete at lcsql.com Sun Aug 2 20:44:43 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2015 00:44:43 +0000 Subject: Multiple Tab Alignments? In-Reply-To: References: <55BE96A9.4080804@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Hi Scott, You might want to check out Bernd's modTableField. On Sun, Aug 2, 2015 at 5:39 PM Scott Rossi wrote: > Thanks for this. I just discovered the padding property introduced in > 5.5, and now have a "real world" table using a single field. Nice :-) > > Regards, > > Scott Rossi > Creative Director > Tactile Media, UX/UI Design > > > > > On 8/2/15, 3:16 PM, "Richard Gaskin" wrote: > > >Scott Rossi wrote: > > > > > Is it possible yet to have varying tab alignments in a field? In > > > other words, some tabStops aligned left and some aligned right? > > > >See the tabAlign property in v7.0 and later. > > > >-- > > Richard Gaskin > > Fourth World Systems > > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > > >_______________________________________________ > >use-livecode mailing list > >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >subscription preferences: > >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From scott at tactilemedia.com Sun Aug 2 20:58:00 2015 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2015 17:58:00 -0700 Subject: Multiple Tab Alignments? In-Reply-To: References: <55BE96A9.4080804@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: I know of it, thanks, and know Bernd makes nice stacks. :-) Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design On 8/2/15, 5:44 PM, "Peter Haworth" wrote: >Hi Scott, >You might want to check out Bernd's modTableField. > >On Sun, Aug 2, 2015 at 5:39 PM Scott Rossi wrote: > >> Thanks for this. I just discovered the padding property introduced in >> 5.5, and now have a "real world" table using a single field. Nice :-) >> >> Regards, >> >> Scott Rossi >> Creative Director >> Tactile Media, UX/UI Design >> >> >> >> >> On 8/2/15, 3:16 PM, "Richard Gaskin" wrote: >> >> >Scott Rossi wrote: >> > >> > > Is it possible yet to have varying tab alignments in a field? In >> > > other words, some tabStops aligned left and some aligned right? >> > >> >See the tabAlign property in v7.0 and later. >> > >> >-- >> > Richard Gaskin >> > Fourth World Systems >> > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web >> > ____________________________________________________________________ >> > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com >> > >> >_______________________________________________ >> >use-livecode mailing list >> >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> >subscription preferences: >> >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >_______________________________________________ >use-livecode mailing list >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From christer at mindcrea.com Mon Aug 3 07:02:57 2015 From: christer at mindcrea.com (christer) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2015 14:02:57 +0300 Subject: Multiple tab alignments Message-ID: Yes, there is a way to use it. However, and as RR documentation states, it may not work correctly. This should be fixed, cannot be a big problem. And at the same time implement decimal point tab stop, as asked by many of us. Rgds From jana.doughty at livecode.com Mon Aug 3 08:57:46 2015 From: jana.doughty at livecode.com (Jana Doughty) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2015 14:57:46 +0200 Subject: Helpful Hints Message-ID: Hi LiveCode Community, Hope you had a great weekend. It's already August and our home base, Edinburgh, is heating up for the Fringe Festival: https://tickets.edfringe.com/ It's a great time if you're looking for a lively holiday abroad. With July coming to a close, we wanted to highlight some of the helpful hints and ideas that went up on the blog this month. Here's what we learned in July: How to Design an App for Android: http://livecode.com/how-to-design-an-app-for-android/ What HTML5's preview looks like: http://livecode.com/ready-html5-deployment-reveals-its-first-preview/ How to Deploy Apps to Android Devices using just one click: http://livecode.com/how-to-deploy-apps-to-android-devices/ How to Create a Great User Experience in Mobile Apps (while drinking whisky): http://livecode.com/how-to-create-a-great-user-experience-in-mobile-apps/ And - How to Make a Business Plan: http://livecode.com/how-to-make-a-business-plan/ We hope you find these blog articles useful. As always, please feel free to offer any insight and feedback. We want to make the blog as relevant to your interests and needs as possible. Thanks! Jana Doughty From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Aug 3 13:30:34 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2015 12:30:34 -0500 Subject: Scroll type with swipe up on mobile (no scroll bar) In-Reply-To: <55BE813A.2050001@hindu.org> References: <55BE813A.2050001@hindu.org> Message-ID: <55BFA53A.8050400@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/2/2015 3:44 PM, Brahmanathaswami wrote: > I have an up-and-coming use case where we will put quotes into a field > and if there is more text we just want the user to be able to swipe up > on the text with their thumb of finger to see the rest of the > text...without a scroll bar. (too ugly) That's what a native mobile scroller does. There's a lesson on how to create one here: -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Mon Aug 3 13:45:56 2015 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2015 13:45:56 -0400 Subject: Calendar Picker In-Reply-To: <5151CB68-7803-46E2-92C1-6A2D618FD139@iotecdigital.com> References: <55B3C7DC.1010809@fourthworld.com> <5151CB68-7803-46E2-92C1-6A2D618FD139@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: I guess what I'm looking for isn't the native picker, but a month representation with buttons for switching months/years. On Tue, Jul 28, 2015 at 12:01 PM, Bob Sneidar wrote: > I have a great calendar picker I created, partly from another developers > calendar object which I modified fairly extensively. I will look it up, but > it is not intended for iOS or mobile. Still the core logic is probably what > you need. > > Bob S > > > > On Jul 25, 2015, at 10:31 , Richard Gaskin > wrote: > > > > Mike Kerner wrote: > > > > > Has anybody done a calendar picker? I want to add something to an > > > ios app. > > > > mobilePickDate? > > > > -- > > Richard Gaskin > > Fourth World Systems > > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Mon Aug 3 13:47:20 2015 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2015 13:47:20 -0400 Subject: Calendar Picker In-Reply-To: References: <55B3C7DC.1010809@fourthworld.com> <5151CB68-7803-46E2-92C1-6A2D618FD139@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: Bob Cole's looks something like what I'm looking for (at the revOnline link). Bob Sneidar, what do you have? On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 1:45 PM, Mike Kerner wrote: > I guess what I'm looking for isn't the native picker, but a month > representation with buttons for switching months/years. > > On Tue, Jul 28, 2015 at 12:01 PM, Bob Sneidar > wrote: > >> I have a great calendar picker I created, partly from another developers >> calendar object which I modified fairly extensively. I will look it up, but >> it is not intended for iOS or mobile. Still the core logic is probably what >> you need. >> >> Bob S >> >> >> > On Jul 25, 2015, at 10:31 , Richard Gaskin >> wrote: >> > >> > Mike Kerner wrote: >> > >> > > Has anybody done a calendar picker? I want to add something to an >> > > ios app. >> > >> > mobilePickDate? >> > >> > -- >> > Richard Gaskin >> > Fourth World Systems >> > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web >> > ____________________________________________________________________ >> > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > use-livecode mailing list >> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From prothero at earthednet.org Mon Aug 3 19:22:19 2015 From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2015 16:22:19 -0700 Subject: Odd behavior in Win8-I'm stuck fixing it, Help?? In-Reply-To: References: <8F200619-C73C-465A-A36C-3EA1387E8619@earthednet.org> Message-ID: Paul: Thanks for the hint. I do use the newer ?from? syntax. export snapshot from rect snapRect to image "mapSnap" Thanks, Bill > On Jul 31, 2015, at 3:35 PM, Paul Hibbert wrote: > > Bill, > > I?ve just read the following explanation from RG relating to another snapshot problem and wondered if it also relates to your student?s problems? > >> >> The "from" option renders the object into a new buffer set up just for the snapshot, while the older "of" syntax grabs the object's rect from the composite screen buffer. >> >> LiveCode renders only the content region of a window but the window itself is rendered by the OS, so it has no choice but to obtain that image from the screen buffer. >> >> -- >> Richard Gaskin >> Fourth World Systems >> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web >> ____________________________________________________________________ >> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > When I first read your post I wondered if the problem could be due to low grade or incompatible video cards in the affected machines, if that?s the case then the above explanation would make sense, to me at least. > > So, the question is, does your "export snapshot" script use the ?from? or ?of? option? > > If it?s the ?of? option then switching to the ?from? option may fix the problem your students are seeing. > > Just a thought. > > Paul > > >> On Jul 16, 2015, at 14:07, William Prothero wrote: >> >> Folks: >> I have an application that is being used by a class of Earth Science students and get failure reports from two who use Windows 8. One lives in Australia and one lives in Japan. The app works fine on Macintosh. I?ve also tested it on my own installation of both Windows 8.1 and 7, 32 bit and 64 bit versions. I can?t get the reported pixellation of the map and screen. >> >> I?m wondering if it is something related to foreign installations. The symptom is extreme pixellation of images captured with the "export snapshot? command. I live in the US. >> >> So, I wonder if somebody with Windows 8 would be willing to download the app and try it, and perhaps give me an idea of what might be going on. If it?s a bug in ?snapshot?, it would be important to be reported and fixed. Otherwise, I?m pretty stuck on figuring out what is going on. >> >> Here are links: >> Windows zip file of the app: >> Pixellated Image sent by a student >> >> Thanks for any help or feedback you can give me. >> >> Regards, >> Bill >> >> >> William A. Prothero >> http://es.earthednet.org/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > Regards, > > Paul Hibbert > paul at livecode.org > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From brahma at hindu.org Mon Aug 3 21:49:45 2015 From: brahma at hindu.org (Brahmanathaswami) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2015 15:49:45 -1000 Subject: Scroll type with swipe up on mobile (no scroll bar) In-Reply-To: <55BFA53A.8050400@hyperactivesw.com> References: <55BE813A.2050001@hindu.org> <55BFA53A.8050400@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <55C01A39.10205@hindu.org> Thanks for that one... right scroll the group... I actually do that in some other desktop apps (with a scroll bar) I might also set to auto scroll if there is over text after a 2 sec pause. J. Landman Gay wrote: > > That's what a native mobile scroller does. There's a lesson on how to > create one here: > > > > -- From paul at livecode.org Mon Aug 3 22:42:50 2015 From: paul at livecode.org (Paul Hibbert) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2015 19:42:50 -0700 Subject: Odd behavior in Win8-I'm stuck fixing it, Help?? In-Reply-To: References: <8F200619-C73C-465A-A36C-3EA1387E8619@earthednet.org> Message-ID: Bill, I?ve done a few tests and it appears to me that "from rect? still relies on the screen output from the computer, whereas ?from object? allows LC to render an image of an object independent of the screen hardware. Try this: Move your stack so the map image is half off the screen, then make the snapshot, the image doesn?t render completely, this suggests to me that the app is accessing a screen representation of the image rather than using LC?s internal rendering, so 'I think' changing the snap routine to make a snap from say a group of the map and it?s associated data may cure the problem. eg. export snapshot from group ?mapAndData? to image ?mapSnap? ? then try the test above again. Paul > On Aug 3, 2015, at 16:22, William Prothero wrote: > > Paul: > Thanks for the hint. I do use the newer ?from? syntax. > export snapshot from rect snapRect to image "mapSnap" > > Thanks, > Bill > >> On Jul 31, 2015, at 3:35 PM, Paul Hibbert wrote: >> >> Bill, >> >> I?ve just read the following explanation from RG relating to another snapshot problem and wondered if it also relates to your student?s problems? >> >>> >>> The "from" option renders the object into a new buffer set up just for the snapshot, while the older "of" syntax grabs the object's rect from the composite screen buffer. >>> >>> LiveCode renders only the content region of a window but the window itself is rendered by the OS, so it has no choice but to obtain that image from the screen buffer. >>> >>> -- >>> Richard Gaskin >>> Fourth World Systems >>> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web >>> ____________________________________________________________________ >>> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com >> >> When I first read your post I wondered if the problem could be due to low grade or incompatible video cards in the affected machines, if that?s the case then the above explanation would make sense, to me at least. >> >> So, the question is, does your "export snapshot" script use the ?from? or ?of? option? >> >> If it?s the ?of? option then switching to the ?from? option may fix the problem your students are seeing. >> >> Just a thought. >> >> Paul >> >> >>> On Jul 16, 2015, at 14:07, William Prothero wrote: >>> >>> Folks: >>> I have an application that is being used by a class of Earth Science students and get failure reports from two who use Windows 8. One lives in Australia and one lives in Japan. The app works fine on Macintosh. I?ve also tested it on my own installation of both Windows 8.1 and 7, 32 bit and 64 bit versions. I can?t get the reported pixellation of the map and screen. >>> >>> I?m wondering if it is something related to foreign installations. The symptom is extreme pixellation of images captured with the "export snapshot? command. I live in the US. >>> >>> So, I wonder if somebody with Windows 8 would be willing to download the app and try it, and perhaps give me an idea of what might be going on. If it?s a bug in ?snapshot?, it would be important to be reported and fixed. Otherwise, I?m pretty stuck on figuring out what is going on. >>> >>> Here are links: >>> Windows zip file of the app: >>> Pixellated Image sent by a student >>> >>> Thanks for any help or feedback you can give me. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Bill >>> >>> >>> William A. Prothero >>> http://es.earthednet.org/ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> Regards, >> >> Paul Hibbert >> paul at livecode.org >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode Regards, Paul Hibbert paul at livecode.org From brahma at hindu.org Tue Aug 4 00:38:06 2015 From: brahma at hindu.org (Brahmanathaswami) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2015 18:38:06 -1000 Subject: Mobile FullScreenMode Options Message-ID: <55C041AE.4020004@hindu.org> I posted a note on the forums about getting started with a new app, (where to put the tool bars for Android) but I'm still not used to the forums so I switched back here for more questions. If I 1) use as my base design "template" iPhone six + (414 X 736) "9X16" 2) supply 3X images at 1242 X 2208 --resize to fit the stack rect -- lock location to preserve this dimension change 3) put a tool bar at the bottom 4) have an area field above the toolbar for quote 5) plan to lock this into portrait mode What's the best full screen mode to use to for this since it may open on 4X 3 devices (many other Android, older iOS and iPads) If everything centers, then it would seem that the toolbar and quote field may be cut off since 3 X 4 is not tall enough to hold the original design. How are you all handling this? Exact fit is going to distort everything. no full screen mode is actually going to reposition stack elements to fit... right? So it seems you *must* mess with geometry yourself like on preopencard put the screenrect into tTargetSpace set the bottom of group "toolbar" to the item 2 of tTargetSpace # will site on the bottom of any screen set the bottom of fld "quote" to (item 2 of tTargetSpace -75) # bottom of fld "quote" will always ride just above the toolbar. end preopencard Am I going in the right direction? Brahmanathaswami aka "complete mobile noobie!" From david at viral.academy Tue Aug 4 04:57:00 2015 From: david at viral.academy (David Bovill) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2015 09:57:00 +0100 Subject: mergJSON, externals and Livecode Server Message-ID: Hi - I'm looking to switch from parsing JSON with scripts to Monte's external (which i've been using on mobile / desktop for a while and works great) - but I can't get it working (I"m on Ubuntu 14.04 with DigitalOcean) and Livecode server version 7.06 rc3). It's either because the external does not work on the distro I have (from memory it's a 64 bit server install), or more likely I'm doing something stupid like not registering the external properly. Any pointers as to how to register externals for a server / how to check they are installed - I'm getting an empty response from: - the externalpackages of stack "home" which is probably the wrong thing to do on a server anyway :) From revolution at derbrill.de Tue Aug 4 05:29:43 2015 From: revolution at derbrill.de (Malte Brill) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2015 11:29:43 +0200 Subject: Active Directory... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5E0427F6-1837-4E7D-A82A-77CBFC7A1483@derbrill.de> Thanks Matthias! I would have liked not to have to use Poewrshell (and modules I need to install for it) @Trevor: This looks really good! I will have to try that as soon as I have set up my own Windows server. (Will try before at the customers place though) All the best and thanks a lot! Malte From th.douez at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 05:43:35 2015 From: th.douez at gmail.com (Thierry Douez) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2015 11:43:35 +0200 Subject: mergJSON, externals and Livecode Server In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: 2015-08-04 10:57 GMT+02:00 David Bovill : Hi David, You might find this tool (binary available) interesting: http://stedolan.github.io/jq/ Otherwise, for linux, externals have to be built speciffically for the platform HTH, Thierry > Hi - I'm looking to switch from parsing JSON with scripts to Monte's > external (which i've been using on mobile / desktop for a while and works > great) - but I can't get it working (I"m on Ubuntu 14.04 with DigitalOcean) > and Livecode server version 7.06 rc3). > > It's either because the external does not work on the distro I have (from > memory it's a 64 bit server install), or more likely I'm doing something > stupid like not registering the external properly. > > Any pointers as to how to register externals for a server / how to check > they are installed - I'm getting an empty response from: > > - the externalpackages of stack "home" > > which is probably the wrong thing to do on a server anyway :) > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From th.douez at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 05:50:03 2015 From: th.douez at gmail.com (Thierry Douez) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2015 11:50:03 +0200 Subject: mergJSON, externals and Livecode Server In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: and here a previous post from Mark Wieder: A coworker hipped me to the fact that OSX has a built-in json parser. As does linux. Takes input from stdin and sends to stdout, so json_pp < filename will parse and pretty-print a json file for you. I was feeling uneasy about posting json data to online parsers, and this does the trick quite nicely. Best, Thierry 2015-08-04 11:43 GMT+02:00 Thierry Douez : > 2015-08-04 10:57 GMT+02:00 > David Bovill : > > Hi David, > > You might find this tool (binary available) interesting: > > http://stedolan.github.io/jq/ > > > Otherwise, for linux, externals have to be built speciffically for the platform > > >> Hi - I'm looking to switch from parsing JSON ------------------------------------------------ Thierry Douez - http://sunny-tdz.com Maker of sunnYrex - sunnYtext2speech - sunnYperl - sunnYmidi - sunnYmage From david at viral.academy Tue Aug 4 07:12:46 2015 From: david at viral.academy (David Bovill) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2015 12:12:46 +0100 Subject: mergJSON, externals and Livecode Server In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks Thierry - jq looks fantastic. Needs to be a new LCB library for sure. But for now I need to get JSON in and out of Livecode arrays on the server. Monte's external is available for all platforms - so it should work on the server I think the the "mergJSON.so" is the version I believe that is used on Linux. Puttin it in the cgi bin along side the built in externals does not seem to be sufficient. How does basic extension configuration work on a server? On 4 August 2015 at 10:50, Thierry Douez wrote: > and here a previous post from Mark Wieder: > > A coworker hipped me to the fact that OSX has a built-in json parser. > As does linux. > > Takes input from stdin and sends to stdout, so > > json_pp < filename > > will parse and pretty-print a json file for you. > > I was feeling uneasy about posting json data to online parsers, > and this does the trick quite nicely. > > Best, > Thierry > > > > 2015-08-04 11:43 GMT+02:00 Thierry Douez : > > 2015-08-04 10:57 GMT+02:00 > > David Bovill : > > > > Hi David, > > > > You might find this tool (binary available) interesting: > > > > http://stedolan.github.io/jq/ > > > > > > Otherwise, for linux, externals have to be built speciffically for the > platform > > > > > >> Hi - I'm looking to switch from parsing JSON > > > > ------------------------------------------------ > Thierry Douez - http://sunny-tdz.com > Maker of sunnYrex - sunnYtext2speech - sunnYperl - sunnYmidi - sunnYmage > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From scott at tactilemedia.com Tue Aug 4 08:51:38 2015 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2015 05:51:38 -0700 Subject: Sample Android Scroller? Message-ID: Anyone have an example of a scrolling list or group that scrolls well on Android? I've been trying to move an iOS stack that contains a scrolling list over to Android, and testing on a Galaxy S4 results in the scroller being near unusable. AcceleratedRendering is enabled on the stack, and it works fine on iOS. Are there any properties/settings that can be adjusted to improve scrolling performance? Thanks & Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design From toolbook at kestner.de Tue Aug 4 09:14:28 2015 From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2015 15:14:28 +0200 Subject: How to resize the columns of a datagrid? Message-ID: <00e701d0ceb7$7efb9ba0$7cf2d2e0$@kestner.de> Hello, I want to resuze a datagrid table by script depending oft he window size. When just resizing the datagrid (expanding it) an additional column is added to the datagrid. Is there an easy way to resize all columns proportional to the new width of the datagrid? Thanks Tiemo From sritcp at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 10:01:39 2015 From: sritcp at gmail.com (Sri) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2015 07:01:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: How to resize the columns of a datagrid? In-Reply-To: <00e701d0ceb7$7efb9ba0$7cf2d2e0$@kestner.de> References: <00e701d0ceb7$7efb9ba0$7cf2d2e0$@kestner.de> Message-ID: <1438696899657-4694577.post@n4.nabble.com> You may want to try this: 1. Save the original width of datagrid in a custom property cOldWidth. 2. In the datagrid script, handle "resizeControl": on resizeControl local tFraction put (the width of me / the cOldWidth of me) into tFraction repeat for each line tLine in the dgProp[columns] of me set the dgColumnWidth[tLine] of me to the round of (tFraction * the dgColumnWidth[tLine] of me) end repeat Make sure that the minimum column width and column resizablity properties are properly set. I haven't tried this out. Hope it works. The idea is to handle the change under "resizeControl" Regards, Sri -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/How-to-resize-the-columns-of-a-datagrid-tp4694576p4694577.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Tue Aug 4 10:08:01 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2015 14:08:01 +0000 Subject: How to resize the columns of a datagrid? In-Reply-To: <00e701d0ceb7$7efb9ba0$7cf2d2e0$@kestner.de> References: <00e701d0ceb7$7efb9ba0$7cf2d2e0$@kestner.de> Message-ID: There's a dgprop for it. Check documentation. Sent on the new Sprint Network from my Samsung Galaxy S?4. -------- Original message -------- From: Tiemo Hollmann TB Date:08/04/2015 6:14 AM (GMT-08:00) To: LiveCode User Liste senden Subject: How to resize the columns of a datagrid? Hello, I want to resuze a datagrid table by script depending oft he window size. When just resizing the datagrid (expanding it) an additional column is added to the datagrid. Is there an easy way to resize all columns proportional to the new width of the datagrid? Thanks Tiemo _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From lyn.teyla at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 10:20:15 2015 From: lyn.teyla at gmail.com (Lyn Teyla) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2015 16:20:15 +0200 Subject: mergJSON, externals and Livecode Server In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <387B6B39-8D9D-40BB-A90D-019E6CDA67AE@gmail.com> David Bovill wrote: > Monte's external is available for all platforms - so it should work on the > server I think the the "mergJSON.so" is the version I believe that is used > on Linux. Puttin it in the cgi bin along side the built in externals does > not seem to be sufficient. How does basic extension configuration work on a > server? If you're running the 64-bit version of Ubuntu 14.04, mergJSON doesn't work off the shelf, since there's currently only a 32-bit version available officially. There's a forum thread concerning the issue, including a tip from Monte on how you can temporarily recompile your own: http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?t=24328&p=125968 Alternatively (and as a possibly less desirable option, depending on your needs), you could install the 32-bit libs for Ubuntu, then run the 32-bit version of LiveCode Server 7. Note that the 64-bit version of LiveCode Server 7 does run into at least one other known issue, which is that the included dbsqlite.so driver isn't functioning (if you need that): http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15573 There may be other issues that I'm unaware of. Otherwise, it runs well for the most part. Lyn From david at viral.academy Tue Aug 4 10:34:29 2015 From: david at viral.academy (David Bovill) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2015 15:34:29 +0100 Subject: mergJSON, externals and Livecode Server In-Reply-To: <387B6B39-8D9D-40BB-A90D-019E6CDA67AE@gmail.com> References: <387B6B39-8D9D-40BB-A90D-019E6CDA67AE@gmail.com> Message-ID: Ah - thanks Lyn. I've stumble on with Livecode script version- and wait for Monte to update mergJSON On 4 August 2015 at 15:20, Lyn Teyla wrote: > David Bovill wrote: > > > Monte's external is available for all platforms - so it should work on > the > > server I think the the "mergJSON.so" is the version I believe that is > used > > on Linux. Puttin it in the cgi bin along side the built in externals does > > not seem to be sufficient. How does basic extension configuration work > on a > > server? > > If you're running the 64-bit version of Ubuntu 14.04, mergJSON doesn't > work off the shelf, since there's currently only a 32-bit version available > officially. > > There's a forum thread concerning the issue, including a tip from Monte on > how you can temporarily recompile your own: > > http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?t=24328&p=125968 > > Alternatively (and as a possibly less desirable option, depending on your > needs), you could install the 32-bit libs for Ubuntu, then run the 32-bit > version of LiveCode Server 7. > > Note that the 64-bit version of LiveCode Server 7 does run into at least > one other known issue, which is that the included dbsqlite.so driver isn't > functioning (if you need that): > > http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15573 > > There may be other issues that I'm unaware of. Otherwise, it runs well for > the most part. > > Lyn > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From toolbook at kestner.de Tue Aug 4 11:10:31 2015 From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2015 17:10:31 +0200 Subject: AW: How to resize the columns of a datagrid? In-Reply-To: References: <00e701d0ceb7$7efb9ba0$7cf2d2e0$@kestner.de> Message-ID: <00fe01d0cec7$baeccfc0$30c66f40$@kestner.de> Hi Bob, are you thinking of "dgColumnIsResizable"? It allows the user to resize manually the column width. Or do you have another property in mind? Tiemo -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag von Bob Sneidar Gesendet: Dienstag, 4. August 2015 16:08 An: How to use LiveCode Betreff: RE: How to resize the columns of a datagrid? There's a dgprop for it. Check documentation. Sent on the new Sprint Network from my Samsung Galaxy S?4. -------- Original message -------- From: Tiemo Hollmann TB Date:08/04/2015 6:14 AM (GMT-08:00) To: LiveCode User Liste senden Subject: How to resize the columns of a datagrid? Hello, I want to resuze a datagrid table by script depending oft he window size. When just resizing the datagrid (expanding it) an additional column is added to the datagrid. Is there an easy way to resize all columns proportional to the new width of the datagrid? Thanks Tiemo _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jana.doughty at livecode.com Tue Aug 4 11:12:24 2015 From: jana.doughty at livecode.com (Jana Doughty) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2015 17:12:24 +0200 Subject: How to Make App Building Into Art Message-ID: <5aa34e2849bee1d9ac0e68cae09bcee1.squirrel@meg.on-rev.com> Hi LiveCode Community, Another week - another blog post! This one is by one of our LiveCode users, Sean Miller, who created apps that are art! See how here: http://livecode.com/how-to-make-app-building-into-art/ We'd love to hear your LiveCode Story and share it on our blog! If you're interested in contributing, please write me directly and I can help you compose your story! Lastly - Did you know we're on social media? We are! And we'd love to see the enthusiasm you share in the forums shared on our social pages as well! You can like our Facebook page and write on our wall here: https://www.facebook.com/pages/LiveCode/121318328010780 You can follow our Twitter handle here (and tweet to us @LiveCode): https://twitter.com/livecode We'd love to see what you're doing in your app building journey. If you don't have time to share your full LiveCode story, take a photo of your work and share it on social media. Or send the photo to me and I'll share it for you on our social pages! Thanks and please let me know if you have any questions! Jana Doughty From klaus at major-k.de Tue Aug 4 11:26:59 2015 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2015 17:26:59 +0200 Subject: How to resize the columns of a datagrid? In-Reply-To: <00fe01d0cec7$baeccfc0$30c66f40$@kestner.de> References: <00e701d0ceb7$7efb9ba0$7cf2d2e0$@kestner.de> <00fe01d0cec7$baeccfc0$30c66f40$@kestner.de> Message-ID: Hi Tiemo, > Am 04.08.2015 um 17:10 schrieb Tiemo Hollmann TB : > > Hi Bob, > are you thinking of "dgColumnIsResizable"? It allows the user to resize > manually the column width. > Or do you have another property in mind? I?m obviously not Bob, but I think he was more thinking of something like: ? ## Set width of single column: set the dgColumnWidth[?Name of column"] of group "DataGrid" to 150 .. ## Set width of all columns, supply a COMMA delimited list of desired widths: set the dgProps["column widths"] of group "DataGrid" to ?200,200,150,300" ? :-) > Tiemo > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] Im Auftrag > von Bob Sneidar > Gesendet: Dienstag, 4. August 2015 16:08 > An: How to use LiveCode > Betreff: RE: How to resize the columns of a datagrid? > > There's a dgprop for it. Check documentation. Best Klaus -- Klaus Major http://www.major-k.de klaus at major-k.de From ambassador at fourthworld.com Tue Aug 4 12:01:22 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2015 09:01:22 -0700 Subject: How to Make App Building Into Art In-Reply-To: <5aa34e2849bee1d9ac0e68cae09bcee1.squirrel@meg.on-rev.com> References: <5aa34e2849bee1d9ac0e68cae09bcee1.squirrel@meg.on-rev.com> Message-ID: <55C0E1D2.9040802@fourthworld.com> Jana Doughty wrote: > Lastly - Did you know we're on social media? We are! And we'd love to see > the enthusiasm you share in the forums shared on our social pages as well! > You can like our Facebook page and write on our wall here: > > https://www.facebook.com/pages/LiveCode/121318328010780 > > You can follow our Twitter handle here (and tweet to us @LiveCode): > > https://twitter.com/livecode > > We'd love to see what you're doing in your app building journey. If you > don't have time to share your full LiveCode story, take a photo of your > work and share it on social media. Or send the photo to me and I'll share > it for you on our social pages! Two tips for the readers here on using social for LC 1. Twitter, Facebook, and G+ all allow hash tags, so if you tag your LiveCode-related posts with #livecode they're not only easier for other LiveCoders to find, but help extend the reach of those posts and that tag across the network. 2. LinkedIn's Endorsement feature is extensible, so that as long as you use at least one of the suggested tags you can also add a custom one - such as, say, "LiveCode". Eventually I'd like to see "LiveCode" become a suggested tag there, and it may be possible if we do two things: - Include LiveCode among your skills in your Linked profile - Add "LiveCode" to endorsements you make for those you know have good LiveCode skills. -- Richard Gaskin LiveCode Community Manager richard at livecode.org From ambassador at fourthworld.com Tue Aug 4 12:05:52 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2015 09:05:52 -0700 Subject: [ANN]SoCal LiveCode Meeting, Thursday in Pasadena Message-ID: <55C0E2E0.2040603@fourthworld.com> The next meeting of the SoCal LiveCode User Group is coming up Thursday at 7PM in Pasadena, CA - details in the forum: -- Richard Gaskin LiveCode Community Manager richard at livecode.org From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Tue Aug 4 12:35:43 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2015 11:35:43 -0500 Subject: Sample Android Scroller? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Are you using a native mobile scroller or just a regular LiveCode field? A native scroller should work okay. On August 4, 2015 7:51:38 AM CDT, Scott Rossi wrote: >Anyone have an example of a scrolling list or group that scrolls well >on >Android? > >I've been trying to move an iOS stack that contains a scrolling list >over >to Android, and testing on a Galaxy S4 results in the scroller being >near >unusable. AcceleratedRendering is enabled on the stack, and it works >fine >on iOS. Are there any properties/settings that can be adjusted to >improve >scrolling performance? > >Thanks & Regards, > >Scott Rossi >Creative Director >Tactile Media, UX/UI Design > > > >_______________________________________________ >use-livecode mailing list >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From scott at tactilemedia.com Tue Aug 4 13:52:21 2015 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2015 10:52:21 -0700 Subject: Sample Android Scroller? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <236068CD-7027-46D0-9FAD-F0E61257E0F5@tactilemedia.com> Yes, the list uses a native scroller. As a test, I tried downloading a recent scroller sample posted in the forums (which was most likely done for iOS) and ran into the same poor performance. I'm hoping I'm just missing something, but than other than setting the layerMode of group to scrolling and enabling acceleratedRendering, I'm not sure what else I can try. Thanks & Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design > On Aug 4, 2015, at 9:35 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > > Are you using a native mobile scroller or just a regular LiveCode field? A native scroller should work okay. > >> On August 4, 2015 7:51:38 AM CDT, Scott Rossi wrote: >> Anyone have an example of a scrolling list or group that scrolls well >> on >> Android? >> >> I've been trying to move an iOS stack that contains a scrolling list >> over >> to Android, and testing on a Galaxy S4 results in the scroller being >> near >> unusable. AcceleratedRendering is enabled on the stack, and it works >> fine >> on iOS. Are there any properties/settings that can be adjusted to >> improve >> scrolling performance? >> >> Thanks & Regards, >> >> Scott Rossi >> Creative Director >> Tactile Media, UX/UI Design >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From userev at canelasoftware.com Tue Aug 4 14:27:13 2015 From: userev at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2015 11:27:13 -0700 Subject: Sample Android Scroller? In-Reply-To: <236068CD-7027-46D0-9FAD-F0E61257E0F5@tactilemedia.com> References: <236068CD-7027-46D0-9FAD-F0E61257E0F5@tactilemedia.com> Message-ID: <31ADFEBE-82D9-4506-8988-5B6CBA690571@canelasoftware.com> > On Aug 4, 2015, at 10:52 AM, Scott Rossi wrote: > > Yes, the list uses a native scroller. As a test, I tried downloading a recent scroller sample posted in the forums (which was most likely done for iOS) and ran into the same poor performance. I'm hoping I'm just missing something, but than other than setting the layerMode of group to scrolling and enabling acceleratedRendering, I'm not sure what else I can try. Hi Scott, My experience with scrolling on Android has been the same as yours. We tested on a Nexus 7. Nice device that runs 3D games with ease. 2D games are amazing as well. I chalked it up to LC needing some optimization for this platform. For anyone wanting to see our code, you can download the whole mobile app here: http://livecloud.io/live-events-source/ If we can get the performance up to what is available on iOS, that would be fantastic. Best regards, Mark Talluto canelasoftware.com CassiaDB: The easy to use, free local storage database made for LiveCode Developers: livecloud.io From prothero at earthednet.org Tue Aug 4 14:52:34 2015 From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2015 11:52:34 -0700 Subject: mobile loader app Message-ID: <1C07A5B6-32CA-4CCC-965C-DD7C7A429F62@earthednet.org> Darn: I marked this email, went on a road trip for 2 weeks, and then lost the link. Someone, a couple of weeks ago, posted a link to an app that directly loads an app to iOS without going through xCode. Could someone re-post that link? I?d much appreciate it. Regards, Bill William A. Prothero http://es.earthednet.org/ From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Tue Aug 4 15:32:58 2015 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2015 15:32:58 -0400 Subject: mobile loader app In-Reply-To: <1C07A5B6-32CA-4CCC-965C-DD7C7A429F62@earthednet.org> References: <1C07A5B6-32CA-4CCC-965C-DD7C7A429F62@earthednet.org> Message-ID: On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 2:52 PM, William Prothero wrote: > Darn: I marked this email, went on a road trip for 2 weeks, and then lost > the link. > Someone, a couple of weeks ago, posted a link to an app that directly > loads an app to iOS without going through xCode. > > Could someone re-post that link? I?d much appreciate it. > > Regards, > Bill > > William A. Prothero > http://es.earthednet.org/ > > Is this what you were looking for? ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Monte Goulding Date: Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 12:50 AM Subject: [ANN] Super quick and easy deployment to plugged in iOS devices To: How to use LiveCode Hi LiveCoders One thing I?ve wanted for a long time is for the Test button to deploy to iOS devices in the same way that it does on Android. mergTestApp was part of the way there but I?ve gone the rest of the way with a new plugin called mergDeploy. Just install the stack and associated external in your plugins folder and LiveCode will recognise when you plugin an iOS device and list it in the Test Targets submenu. You can then click the Test button and it will install onto your device. Great for rapidly testing on a device where it counts. This new plugin is available from mergExt.com for $9 or bundled in mergExt Complete which is now $940 worth of products for $299. See http://mergext.com/plugins/mergdeploy/ < http://mergext.com/plugins/mergdeploy/> for more info. Cheers Monte -- M E R Goulding Software development services Bespoke application development for vertical markets mergExt - There's an external for that! From bonnmike at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 16:31:00 2015 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2015 14:31:00 -0600 Subject: How to resize the columns of a datagrid? In-Reply-To: References: <00e701d0ceb7$7efb9ba0$7cf2d2e0$@kestner.de> <00fe01d0cec7$baeccfc0$30c66f40$@kestner.de> Message-ID: If you want proportional, all the same size relative to each other, something like this in the card script should work. on resizestack set the rect of group 1 to the rect of this card -- set your dg group to whatever new size you want resizecol end resizestack on resizecol put the width of group 1 into tWidth put the dgProp[ "columns" ] of group 1 into tCol put trunc((the effective width of group 1) / (the number of lines in tCol)) into tWidth repeat for each line tLine in tCol set the dgColumnWidth[tLine] of group 1 to tWidth end repeat end resizecol It does a pretty good job, but it leaves the horizontal scroll bar up. I'm sure you could nudge things around so that there was no scroll bar (or just turn that one off) If you want different sizes, all changing proportionally, you'll need to do as sri said and adjust based on a factor. (it should be easy enough to store the size of each column as a percentage of total width and use that to generate your widths) On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 9:26 AM, Klaus major-k wrote: > Hi Tiemo, > > > Am 04.08.2015 um 17:10 schrieb Tiemo Hollmann TB : > > > > Hi Bob, > > are you thinking of "dgColumnIsResizable"? It allows the user to resize > > manually the column width. > > Or do you have another property in mind? > > I?m obviously not Bob, but I think he was more thinking of something like: > ? > ## Set width of single column: > set the dgColumnWidth[?Name of column"] of group "DataGrid" to 150 > .. > ## Set width of all columns, supply a COMMA delimited list of desired > widths: > set the dgProps["column widths"] of group "DataGrid" to ?200,200,150,300" > ? > :-) > > > Tiemo > > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > > Von: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] Im > Auftrag > > von Bob Sneidar > > Gesendet: Dienstag, 4. August 2015 16:08 > > An: How to use LiveCode > > Betreff: RE: How to resize the columns of a datagrid? > > > > There's a dgprop for it. Check documentation. > > Best > > Klaus > > -- > Klaus Major > http://www.major-k.de > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From prothero at earthednet.org Tue Aug 4 17:12:47 2015 From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2015 14:12:47 -0700 Subject: Odd behavior in Win8-I'm stuck fixing it, Help?? In-Reply-To: References: <8F200619-C73C-465A-A36C-3EA1387E8619@earthednet.org> Message-ID: <60D2D8E5-E0D3-456C-8147-9BDFC39FEC94@earthednet.org> Paul: Thanks, I?m trying it out. Of course, I won?t be able to tell if it solves the problem until the next student has a problem, but it?s a good idea anyway. Unfortunately, due to the way I?ve set up the data plotting, it?s going to be a fairly big job. I rely heavily on screen capture, but it?s most likely worth the modifications. Regards, Bill > On Aug 3, 2015, at 7:42 PM, Paul Hibbert wrote: > > Bill, > > I?ve done a few tests and it appears to me that "from rect? still relies on the screen output from the computer, whereas ?from object? allows LC to render an image of an object independent of the screen hardware. > > Try this: > > Move your stack so the map image is half off the screen, then make the snapshot, the image doesn?t render completely, this suggests to me that the app is accessing a screen representation of the image rather than using LC?s internal rendering, so 'I think' changing the snap routine to make a snap from say a group of the map and it?s associated data may cure the problem. > > eg. export snapshot from group ?mapAndData? to image ?mapSnap? ? then try the test above again. > > Paul > > >> On Aug 3, 2015, at 16:22, William Prothero wrote: >> >> Paul: >> Thanks for the hint. I do use the newer ?from? syntax. >> export snapshot from rect snapRect to image "mapSnap" >> >> Thanks, >> Bill >> >>> On Jul 31, 2015, at 3:35 PM, Paul Hibbert wrote: >>> >>> Bill, >>> >>> I?ve just read the following explanation from RG relating to another snapshot problem and wondered if it also relates to your student?s problems? >>> >>>> >>>> The "from" option renders the object into a new buffer set up just for the snapshot, while the older "of" syntax grabs the object's rect from the composite screen buffer. >>>> >>>> LiveCode renders only the content region of a window but the window itself is rendered by the OS, so it has no choice but to obtain that image from the screen buffer. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Richard Gaskin >>>> Fourth World Systems >>>> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web >>>> ____________________________________________________________________ >>>> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com >>> >>> When I first read your post I wondered if the problem could be due to low grade or incompatible video cards in the affected machines, if that?s the case then the above explanation would make sense, to me at least. >>> >>> So, the question is, does your "export snapshot" script use the ?from? or ?of? option? >>> >>> If it?s the ?of? option then switching to the ?from? option may fix the problem your students are seeing. >>> >>> Just a thought. >>> >>> Paul >>> >>> >>>> On Jul 16, 2015, at 14:07, William Prothero wrote: >>>> >>>> Folks: >>>> I have an application that is being used by a class of Earth Science students and get failure reports from two who use Windows 8. One lives in Australia and one lives in Japan. The app works fine on Macintosh. I?ve also tested it on my own installation of both Windows 8.1 and 7, 32 bit and 64 bit versions. I can?t get the reported pixellation of the map and screen. >>>> >>>> I?m wondering if it is something related to foreign installations. The symptom is extreme pixellation of images captured with the "export snapshot? command. I live in the US. >>>> >>>> So, I wonder if somebody with Windows 8 would be willing to download the app and try it, and perhaps give me an idea of what might be going on. If it?s a bug in ?snapshot?, it would be important to be reported and fixed. Otherwise, I?m pretty stuck on figuring out what is going on. >>>> >>>> Here are links: >>>> Windows zip file of the app: >>>> Pixellated Image sent by a student >>>> >>>> Thanks for any help or feedback you can give me. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Bill >>>> >>>> >>>> William A. Prothero >>>> http://es.earthednet.org/ >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Paul Hibbert >>> paul at livecode.org >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > Regards, > > Paul Hibbert > paul at livecode.org > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bogdanoff at me.com Tue Aug 4 17:24:57 2015 From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2015 14:24:57 -0700 Subject: Control structure with "not" Message-ID: Is it possible to convert this to a switch control structure, or otherwise refined somehow? The ?not? is what I need, and the setting has to be always ?true?: on doThisThing tSender if tSender is not ?Apple? then set tSwitchApple to true end if if Sender is not ?Peach? then set tSwitchPeach to true end if if Sender is not ?Grape? then set tSwitchGrape to true end if end doThisThing Peter Bogdanoff UCLA From pete at lcsql.com Tue Aug 4 17:40:46 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2015 21:40:46 +0000 Subject: Control structure with "not" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You could: set tSwitchApple to (tSender is not "Apple") set tSwitchPeach to (tSender is not "Peach") set tSwitchGrape to (tSender is not "Grape") Slightly different than your code because the switches would be set to false if the condition isn't met whereas you code doesn't do that. On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 2:25 PM Peter Bogdanoff wrote: > Is it possible to convert this to a switch control structure, or otherwise > refined somehow? The ?not? is what I need, and the setting has to be always > ?true?: > > on doThisThing tSender > if tSender is not ?Apple? then > set tSwitchApple to true > end if > > if Sender is not ?Peach? then > set tSwitchPeach to true > end if > > if Sender is not ?Grape? then > set tSwitchGrape to true > end if > end doThisThing > > Peter Bogdanoff > UCLA > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From scott at tactilemedia.com Tue Aug 4 17:44:38 2015 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2015 14:44:38 -0700 Subject: Control structure with "not" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: One option, if I understand what you're asking: on doThisThing tSender repeat for each item theVar in "Apple,Peach,Grape" do "put (tSender <> theVar) into" && ("tSwitch" & theVar) end repeat end doThisThing Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design On 8/4/15, 2:24 PM, "Peter Bogdanoff" wrote: >Is it possible to convert this to a switch control structure, or >otherwise refined somehow? The ?not? is what I need, and the setting has >to be always ?true?: > >on doThisThing tSender > if tSender is not ?Apple? then > set tSwitchApple to true > end if > > if Sender is not ?Peach? then > set tSwitchPeach to true > end if > > if Sender is not ?Grape? then > set tSwitchGrape to true > end if >end doThisThing > >Peter Bogdanoff >UCLA >_______________________________________________ >use-livecode mailing list >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dunbarx at aol.com Tue Aug 4 17:47:09 2015 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx at aol.com) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2015 17:47:09 -0400 Subject: Control structure with "not" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <14efaaeafbb-41b9-353cf@webprd-a05.mail.aol.com> Hi. Your if-then would be better served as: on doThisThing tSender if tSender is not ?Apple? then set tSwitchApple to true else if Sender is not ?Peach? then set tSwitchPeach to true else if Sender is not ?Grape? then set tSwitchGrape to true end doThisThing The switch is as follows, but note that you cannot "set" a variable, only a property. So though the overall syntax that follows is correct, the handler will not compile. on doThisThing tSender switch case tSender is not ?Apple? set tSwitchApple to true break case tSender is not ?Peach? set tSwitchApple to true break case tSender is not ?Grape? set tSwitchApple to true break end switch end doThisThing In other words, the snippet "set tSwitchApple to true" has to be something like: set the tSwitchApple of this stack to "true" or if indeed a variable" put "true" into tSwitchApple Craig Newman on doThisThing tSender if tSender is not ?Apple? then set tSwitchApple to true end if if Sender is not ?Peach? then set tSwitchPeach to true end if if Sender is not ?Grape? then set tSwitchGrape to true end if end doThisThing -----Original Message----- From: Peter Bogdanoff To: How to use LiveCode Sent: Tue, Aug 4, 2015 5:26 pm Subject: Control structure with "not" Is it possible to convert this to a switch control structure, or otherwise refined somehow? The ?not? is what I need, and the setting has to be always ?true?: on doThisThing tSender if tSender is not ?Apple? then set tSwitchApple to true end if if Sender is not ?Peach? then set tSwitchPeach to true end if if Sender is not ?Grape? then set tSwitchGrape to true end if end doThisThing Peter Bogdanoff UCLA _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bogdanoff at me.com Tue Aug 4 17:48:43 2015 From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2015 14:48:43 -0700 Subject: Control structure with "not" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This won?t work for me because ALL the switches always have to be set to true, except for the one related sender. On Aug 4, 2015, at 2:40 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: > You could: > > set tSwitchApple to (tSender is not "Apple") > set tSwitchPeach to (tSender is not "Peach") > set tSwitchGrape to (tSender is not "Grape") > > Slightly different than your code because the switches would be set to > false if the condition isn't met whereas you code doesn't do that. > > On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 2:25 PM Peter Bogdanoff wrote: > >> Is it possible to convert this to a switch control structure, or otherwise >> refined somehow? The ?not? is what I need, and the setting has to be always >> ?true?: >> >> on doThisThing tSender >> if tSender is not ?Apple? then >> set tSwitchApple to true >> end if >> >> if Sender is not ?Peach? then >> set tSwitchPeach to true >> end if >> >> if Sender is not ?Grape? then >> set tSwitchGrape to true >> end if >> end doThisThing >> >> Peter Bogdanoff >> UCLA >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From revdev at pdslabs.net Tue Aug 4 17:53:38 2015 From: revdev at pdslabs.net (Phil Davis) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2015 14:53:38 -0700 Subject: Control structure with "not" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55C13462.8080801@pdslabs.net> You can always use 'switch' without specifying an expression to evaluate as part of the 'switch' line, like so: switch case (tSender is not "Apple") put true into tSwitchApple --break case (tSender is not "Peach") put true into tSwitchPeach --break case (tSender is not "Grape") put true into tSwitchGrape --break end switch Or there's this. It doesn't generate errors but it also doesn't work - the variables are not filled by it: switch tSender case (not "Apple") put true into tSwitchApple --break case (not "Peach") put true into tSwitchPeach --break case (not "Grape") put true into tSwitchGrape --break end switch ("break" is commented to allow same logic flow as your example) Here's another way (that does work) to skin that cat: on doThisThing pSender constant kFruits = "Apple,Peach,Grape" put kFruits into tFruitsA split tFruitsA with comma as set put false into tFruitsA[pSender] end doThisThing I love arrays. And there are probably many other ways to do it. Phil Davis On 8/4/15 2:24 PM, Peter Bogdanoff wrote: > Is it possible to convert this to a switch control structure, or otherwise refined somehow? The ?not? is what I need, and the setting has to be always ?true?: > > on doThisThing tSender > if tSender is not ?Apple? then > set tSwitchApple to true > end if > > if Sender is not ?Peach? then > set tSwitchPeach to true > end if > > if Sender is not ?Grape? then > set tSwitchGrape to true > end if > end doThisThing > > Peter Bogdanoff > UCLA > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Phil Davis From monte at sweattechnologies.com Tue Aug 4 18:07:03 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2015 08:07:03 +1000 Subject: mergJSON, externals and Livecode Server In-Reply-To: <387B6B39-8D9D-40BB-A90D-019E6CDA67AE@gmail.com> References: <387B6B39-8D9D-40BB-A90D-019E6CDA67AE@gmail.com> Message-ID: <0869E87A-62DF-4744-91F2-C8C01BBF0637@sweattechnologies.com> > On 5 Aug 2015, at 12:20 am, Lyn Teyla wrote: > > If you're running the 64-bit version of Ubuntu 14.04, mergJSON doesn't work off the shelf, since there's currently only a 32-bit version available officially. Thanks Lyn, it will work perfectly fine on 64 bit but I forgot to include it in the latest release of the binaries. I?ll include it in the next build. Cheers -- Monte Goulding M E R Goulding - software development services mergExt - There's an external for that! From pete at lcsql.com Tue Aug 4 18:32:24 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2015 22:32:24 +0000 Subject: Control structure with "not" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you want but I think my code does that. For example, let's say tSender is "Apple": set tSwitchApple to (tSender is not "Apple") --> false set tSwitchPeach to (tSender is not "Peach") --> true set tSwitchGrape to (tSender is not "Grape") --> true Looking at your code again, it's unclear as to whether your tSwitchxxx things are variables or custom properties. Using "set" makes me think they are custom properties but then you would need "of " or the script won't compile. If they are variables, then use "put" to put values into them. If they are variables, I'd make the switches into an array and then: repeat for each item rFruit in "Apple,Peach,Grape" put (tSender is not rFruit) into tSwitches[rFruit] end repeat And I really like Phil's "split" solution! On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 2:49 PM Peter Bogdanoff wrote: > This won?t work for me because ALL the switches always have to be set to > true, except for the one related sender. > > On Aug 4, 2015, at 2:40 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: > > > You could: > > > > set tSwitchApple to (tSender is not "Apple") > > set tSwitchPeach to (tSender is not "Peach") > > set tSwitchGrape to (tSender is not "Grape") > > > > Slightly different than your code because the switches would be set to > > false if the condition isn't met whereas you code doesn't do that. > > > > On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 2:25 PM Peter Bogdanoff wrote: > > > >> Is it possible to convert this to a switch control structure, or > otherwise > >> refined somehow? The ?not? is what I need, and the setting has to be > always > >> ?true?: > >> > >> on doThisThing tSender > >> if tSender is not ?Apple? then > >> set tSwitchApple to true > >> end if > >> > >> if Sender is not ?Peach? then > >> set tSwitchPeach to true > >> end if > >> > >> if Sender is not ?Grape? then > >> set tSwitchGrape to true > >> end if > >> end doThisThing > >> > >> Peter Bogdanoff > >> UCLA > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From prothero at earthednet.org Tue Aug 4 19:19:37 2015 From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2015 16:19:37 -0700 Subject: mobile loader app In-Reply-To: References: <1C07A5B6-32CA-4CCC-965C-DD7C7A429F62@earthednet.org> Message-ID: <5B8B812F-906D-4BC1-8F70-5E85D05AD1AC@earthednet.org> Roger: Thanks! That?s it. Bill > On Aug 4, 2015, at 12:32 PM, Roger Eller wrote: > > On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 2:52 PM, William Prothero > wrote: > >> Darn: I marked this email, went on a road trip for 2 weeks, and then lost >> the link. >> Someone, a couple of weeks ago, posted a link to an app that directly >> loads an app to iOS without going through xCode. >> >> Could someone re-post that link? I?d much appreciate it. >> >> Regards, >> Bill >> >> William A. Prothero >> http://es.earthednet.org/ >> >> > Is this what you were looking for? > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Monte Goulding > Date: Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 12:50 AM > Subject: [ANN] Super quick and easy deployment to plugged in iOS devices > To: How to use LiveCode > > > Hi LiveCoders > > One thing I?ve wanted for a long time is for the Test button to deploy to > iOS devices in the same way that it does on Android. mergTestApp was part > of the way there but I?ve gone the rest of the way with a new plugin called > mergDeploy. Just install the stack and associated external in your plugins > folder and LiveCode will recognise when you plugin an iOS device and list > it in the Test Targets submenu. You can then click the Test button and it > will install onto your device. Great for rapidly testing on a device where > it counts. > > This new plugin is available from mergExt.com for $9 > or bundled in mergExt Complete which is now $940 worth of products for $299. > > See http://mergext.com/plugins/mergdeploy/ < > http://mergext.com/plugins/mergdeploy/> for more info. > > Cheers > > Monte > > -- > M E R Goulding > Software development services > Bespoke application development for vertical markets > > mergExt - There's an external for that! > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From david at viral.academy Wed Aug 5 01:43:16 2015 From: david at viral.academy (David Bovill) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2015 06:43:16 +0100 Subject: URL works in IDE, browser but not on Livecode Server Message-ID: The following url works in the browser, in script and in the message box: - https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&titles=Image:Andalusian_horse_moscow.jpg&prop=imageinfo&format=json&iiprop=extmetadata|url It does not however work when called from a script in Livecode server. It does work when called by curl on the same server. This script if run on your Livecode server should demonstrate the difference: put " > https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&titles=File%3AAndalusian_horse_moscow.jpg&prop=imageinfo&format=json&iiprop=extmetadata|url" > into someUrl > put shell ("curl" && quote & someURL & quote) into someResult > delete line 1 to 4 of someResult > put url someURl & CR & someURL & CR & someResult > ?> > Anyone have an idea why the server may not been doing the same thing as the IDE or curl with this url? From peterwawood at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 02:05:13 2015 From: peterwawood at gmail.com (Peter W A Wood) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2015 14:05:13 +0800 Subject: URL works in IDE, browser but not on Livecode Server In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9FBF0F5D-F89B-4FEE-BB7A-ADAA26F7F368@gmail.com> It may be this bug - http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15162 - depending on which version of LiveCode server you are running. > On 5 Aug 2015, at 13:43, David Bovill wrote: > > The following url works in the browser, in script and in the message box: > > - > https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&titles=Image:Andalusian_horse_moscow.jpg&prop=imageinfo&format=json&iiprop=extmetadata|url > > It does not however work when called from a script in Livecode server. It > does work when called by curl on the same server. > > This script if run on your Livecode server should demonstrate the > difference: > > > put " >> https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&titles=File%3AAndalusian_horse_moscow.jpg&prop=imageinfo&format=json&iiprop=extmetadata|url" >> into someUrl >> put shell ("curl" && quote & someURL & quote) into someResult >> delete line 1 to 4 of someResult >> put url someURl & CR & someURL & CR & someResult >> ?> >> > > Anyone have an idea why the server may not been doing the same thing as the > IDE or curl with this url? > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From klaus at major-k.de Wed Aug 5 09:24:05 2015 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2015 15:24:05 +0200 Subject: dontuseqt per player object, did I dream this? Message-ID: <25D7307D-D568-4E24-827B-A4E8918BC18F@major-k.de> Hi friends, I thought I had read about this new feature in 7.1, where we can set dontuseqt for each player object independently. I chckecked the release notes for 7.1 but did not find anything. Did I dream this? Any mind easing insight welcome, thanks! Best Klaus -- Klaus Major http://www.major-k.de klaus at major-k.de From peter.brett at livecode.com Wed Aug 5 09:40:29 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2015 15:40:29 +0200 Subject: dontuseqt per player object, did I dream =?UTF-8?Q?this=3F?= In-Reply-To: <25D7307D-D568-4E24-827B-A4E8918BC18F@major-k.de> References: <25D7307D-D568-4E24-827B-A4E8918BC18F@major-k.de> Message-ID: <9e973467848a6ba4455e21ebc9fa8963@livecode.com> On 2015-08-05 15:24, Klaus major-k wrote: > Hi friends, > > I thought I had read about this new feature in 7.1, where we can set > dontuseqt > for each player object independently. I chckecked the release notes for > 7.1 > but did not find anything. > > Did I dream this? > > Any mind easing insight welcome, thanks! Hi Klaus, From 7.0.6 you could set dontuseqt independently for each player object on Windows. We will soon extend this to OS X as well. This change hasn't been released yet. If it is not released in 7.1.0-rc-1, then it will be released in 7.1.1-rc-1. Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Engine Development Team From klaus at major-k.de Wed Aug 5 09:43:01 2015 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2015 15:43:01 +0200 Subject: dontuseqt per player object, did I dream this? In-Reply-To: <9e973467848a6ba4455e21ebc9fa8963@livecode.com> References: <25D7307D-D568-4E24-827B-A4E8918BC18F@major-k.de> <9e973467848a6ba4455e21ebc9fa8963@livecode.com> Message-ID: Hi Peter, > Am 05.08.2015 um 15:40 schrieb Peter TB Brett : > On 2015-08-05 15:24, Klaus major-k wrote: >> Hi friends, >> I thought I had read about this new feature in 7.1, where we can set dontuseqt >> for each player object independently. I chckecked the release notes for 7.1 >> but did not find anything. >> Did I dream this? >> Any mind easing insight welcome, thanks! > > Hi Klaus, > From 7.0.6 you could set dontuseqt independently for each player object on Windows. > We will soon extend this to OS X as well. This change hasn't been released yet. If it is not released in 7.1.0-rc-1, then it will be released in 7.1.1-rc-1. > Peter aha, thank you very much! So i DID read it here :-) > -- > Dr Peter Brett > LiveCode Engine Development Team Best Klaus -- Klaus Major http://www.major-k.de klaus at major-k.de From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Thu Aug 6 10:24:11 2015 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2015 10:24:11 -0400 Subject: LiveCode Server latency causing empty results Message-ID: When the network is slow, sometimes my LC server scripts come up empty. Resubmitting the URL request usually, but not always corrects the problem. Is there something I can put in the script to help with this? ~Roger From colinholgate at gmail.com Thu Aug 6 10:58:39 2015 From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2015 10:58:39 -0400 Subject: developing iOS apps without a developer subscription Message-ID: To submit an app to the App Store you would have to have a developer account, but recently Apple made it possible to develop personal use apps using a free provisioning profile. Someone using Adobe AIR worked out the steps to do that, and I think they would work for LiveCode too: https://forums.adobe.com/message/7835794#7835794 From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Thu Aug 6 11:06:31 2015 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2015 11:06:31 -0400 Subject: LiveCode Server latency causing empty results In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <002201d0d059$7a5fa660$6f1ef320$@net> Roger, Try set the socketTimeoutInterval to "milliseconds" The default seems to be 10000 (10 seconds) It also works on mobile although the docs say that this is not available on mobile. I set mine to "set the socketTimeoutInterval to 30000" This gives 30 seconds for the server to respond. If there is a timeout then empty is returned as you experienced. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Roger Eller Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2015 10:24 AM To: How to use LiveCode Subject: LiveCode Server latency causing empty results When the network is slow, sometimes my LC server scripts come up empty. Resubmitting the URL request usually, but not always corrects the problem. Is there something I can put in the script to help with this? ~Roger _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Thu Aug 6 12:21:09 2015 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2015 12:21:09 -0400 Subject: LiveCode Server latency causing empty results In-Reply-To: <002201d0d059$7a5fa660$6f1ef320$@net> References: <002201d0d059$7a5fa660$6f1ef320$@net> Message-ID: Thanks Ralph! I was thinking along those lines, but wasn't sure if the result wasn't making it back to LC Server from a database query, or whether it was the web server timing out. I'm going to try it and see what happens! ~Roger On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 11:06 AM, Ralph DiMola wrote: > Roger, > > Try set the socketTimeoutInterval to "milliseconds" > The default seems to be 10000 (10 seconds) > It also works on mobile although the docs say that this is not available on > mobile. > > I set mine to "set the socketTimeoutInterval to 30000" This gives 30 > seconds > for the server to respond. > If there is a timeout then empty is returned as you experienced. > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On > Behalf > Of Roger Eller > Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2015 10:24 AM > To: How to use LiveCode > Subject: LiveCode Server latency causing empty results > > When the network is slow, sometimes my LC server scripts come up empty. > Resubmitting the URL request usually, but not always corrects the problem. > Is there something I can put in the script to help with this? > > ~Roger > > From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Thu Aug 6 12:54:11 2015 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2015 12:54:11 -0400 Subject: LiveCode Server latency causing empty results In-Reply-To: References: <002201d0d059$7a5fa660$6f1ef320$@net> Message-ID: Nope, that didn't resolve it. The URL is really long, so maybe I am hitting some upper limit within LiveCode. The same URL pasted into a browser (chrome) receives a result, but get URL within LiveCode does not. The parameter is just a long list my server script looks up in a database. The list length varies. ~Roger On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 12:21 PM, Roger Eller wrote: > Thanks Ralph! I was thinking along those lines, but wasn't sure if the > result wasn't making it back to LC Server from a database query, or whether > it was the web server timing out. I'm going to try it and see what happens! > > ~Roger > > > On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 11:06 AM, Ralph DiMola > wrote: > >> Roger, >> >> Try set the socketTimeoutInterval to "milliseconds" >> The default seems to be 10000 (10 seconds) >> It also works on mobile although the docs say that this is not available >> on >> mobile. >> >> I set mine to "set the socketTimeoutInterval to 30000" This gives 30 >> seconds >> for the server to respond. >> If there is a timeout then empty is returned as you experienced. >> >> Ralph DiMola >> IT Director >> Evergreen Information Services >> rdimola at evergreeninfo.net >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On >> Behalf >> Of Roger Eller >> Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2015 10:24 AM >> To: How to use LiveCode >> Subject: LiveCode Server latency causing empty results >> >> When the network is slow, sometimes my LC server scripts come up empty. >> Resubmitting the URL request usually, but not always corrects the problem. >> Is there something I can put in the script to help with this? >> >> ~Roger >> >> > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Aug 6 13:09:13 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2015 10:09:13 -0700 Subject: LiveCode Server latency causing empty results In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55C394B9.1090600@fourthworld.com> Roger Eller wrote: > The URL is really long, so maybe I am hitting some upper limit within > LiveCode. The same URL pasted into a browser (chrome) receives a > result, but get URL within LiveCode does not. The parameter is just a > long list my server script looks up in a database. The list length > varies. Could there be session info in that URL? Or perhaps the server is expecting a cookie that the browser provides but is not provided by your script's handling of the headers? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Thu Aug 6 13:41:49 2015 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2015 13:41:49 -0400 Subject: LiveCode Server latency causing empty results In-Reply-To: <55C394B9.1090600@fourthworld.com> References: <55C394B9.1090600@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Richard, if I view source of the result in a browser, it is just text, exactly as the database spits it out, no formatting as it is not meant for browser/human consumption. I haven't used or needed to use cookies before. This application works for 99% of the requests. Based on the size of the words searched for, usually 316 is the most it can get in a single URL. I just did one with 392, and it worked in the browser, but not LiveCode. ~Roger On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 1:09 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Roger Eller wrote: > > > The URL is really long, so maybe I am hitting some upper limit within > > LiveCode. The same URL pasted into a browser (chrome) receives a > > result, but get URL within LiveCode does not. The parameter is just a > > long list my server script looks up in a database. The list length > > varies. > > Could there be session info in that URL? Or perhaps the server is > expecting a cookie that the browser provides but is not provided by your > script's handling of the headers? > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Thu Aug 6 13:46:44 2015 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2015 13:46:44 -0400 Subject: developing iOS apps without a developer subscription In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Do it! On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 10:58 AM, Colin Holgate wrote: > To submit an app to the App Store you would have to have a developer > account, but recently Apple made it possible to develop personal use apps > using a free provisioning profile. Someone using Adobe AIR worked out the > steps to do that, and I think they would work for LiveCode too: > > https://forums.adobe.com/message/7835794#7835794 > From prothero at earthednet.org Thu Aug 6 13:57:09 2015 From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2015 10:57:09 -0700 Subject: Odd behavior in Win8-I'm stuck fixing it, Help?? In-Reply-To: References: <8F200619-C73C-465A-A36C-3EA1387E8619@earthednet.org> Message-ID: <9DB490A9-28C3-43C8-86C5-8941182887EE@earthednet.org> Paul: FYI, I set up a test stack to figure out how to use the ?from object? method of getting a snapshot image. Here?s the steps I followed: 1. put all images that are to be captured in a group. 2. set the group rect to the desired snapshot rect 3. Lock the group rect 4. Set the group to "scaling" 5. In the script: set the snapRect to the rect of the group 6. export snapshot from rect snapRect of Group "snapshotGrp" with metadata theMetadataArray to image mySnapShot 7. set the rect of img mySnapShot to snapRect 8. set the visible if img mySnapShot to TRUE Perhaps this will help others. I have no idea if this would solve the problem an occasional student has, but the method works fine in Macintosh OS 10.10.4 and livecode 7.0.6 What I have is a very large map image in the group. The map is magnified, scrolled, etc. When some kinds of data are plotted, graphic and field object are placed in the correct locations over the map. Then the snapshot is taken and the graphic objects (except for the map) are deleted. For large symbol datasets, like earthquakes, I draw the symbols directly into the snapshot graphic. That way the image data is much smaller than if I tried to draw into the large map, and also, the large map doesn?t need to be refreshed when data are erased from view. Thanks again for the hints. Best, Bill > On Aug 3, 2015, at 7:42 PM, Paul Hibbert wrote: > > Bill, > > I?ve done a few tests and it appears to me that "from rect? still relies on the screen output from the computer, whereas ?from object? allows LC to render an image of an object independent of the screen hardware. > > Try this: > > Move your stack so the map image is half off the screen, then make the snapshot, the image doesn?t render completely, this suggests to me that the app is accessing a screen representation of the image rather than using LC?s internal rendering, so 'I think' changing the snap routine to make a snap from say a group of the map and it?s associated data may cure the problem. > > eg. export snapshot from group ?mapAndData? to image ?mapSnap? ? then try the test above again. > > Paul > > >> On Aug 3, 2015, at 16:22, William Prothero wrote: >> >> Paul: >> Thanks for the hint. I do use the newer ?from? syntax. >> export snapshot from rect snapRect to image "mapSnap" >> >> Thanks, >> Bill >> >>> On Jul 31, 2015, at 3:35 PM, Paul Hibbert wrote: >>> >>> Bill, >>> >>> I?ve just read the following explanation from RG relating to another snapshot problem and wondered if it also relates to your student?s problems? >>> >>>> >>>> The "from" option renders the object into a new buffer set up just for the snapshot, while the older "of" syntax grabs the object's rect from the composite screen buffer. >>>> >>>> LiveCode renders only the content region of a window but the window itself is rendered by the OS, so it has no choice but to obtain that image from the screen buffer. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Richard Gaskin >>>> Fourth World Systems >>>> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web >>>> ____________________________________________________________________ >>>> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com >>> >>> When I first read your post I wondered if the problem could be due to low grade or incompatible video cards in the affected machines, if that?s the case then the above explanation would make sense, to me at least. >>> >>> So, the question is, does your "export snapshot" script use the ?from? or ?of? option? >>> >>> If it?s the ?of? option then switching to the ?from? option may fix the problem your students are seeing. >>> >>> Just a thought. >>> >>> Paul >>> >>> >>>> On Jul 16, 2015, at 14:07, William Prothero wrote: >>>> >>>> Folks: >>>> I have an application that is being used by a class of Earth Science students and get failure reports from two who use Windows 8. One lives in Australia and one lives in Japan. The app works fine on Macintosh. I?ve also tested it on my own installation of both Windows 8.1 and 7, 32 bit and 64 bit versions. I can?t get the reported pixellation of the map and screen. >>>> >>>> I?m wondering if it is something related to foreign installations. The symptom is extreme pixellation of images captured with the "export snapshot? command. I live in the US. >>>> >>>> So, I wonder if somebody with Windows 8 would be willing to download the app and try it, and perhaps give me an idea of what might be going on. If it?s a bug in ?snapshot?, it would be important to be reported and fixed. Otherwise, I?m pretty stuck on figuring out what is going on. >>>> >>>> Here are links: >>>> Windows zip file of the app: >>>> Pixellated Image sent by a student >>>> >>>> Thanks for any help or feedback you can give me. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Bill >>>> >>>> >>>> William A. Prothero >>>> http://es.earthednet.org/ >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Paul Hibbert >>> paul at livecode.org >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > Regards, > > Paul Hibbert > paul at livecode.org > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From prothero at earthednet.org Thu Aug 6 14:00:34 2015 From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2015 11:00:34 -0700 Subject: Odd behavior in Win8-I'm stuck fixing it, Help?? In-Reply-To: <9DB490A9-28C3-43C8-86C5-8941182887EE@earthednet.org> References: <8F200619-C73C-465A-A36C-3EA1387E8619@earthednet.org> <9DB490A9-28C3-43C8-86C5-8941182887EE@earthednet.org> Message-ID: Paul: One more thing. My test uses a variable ?theMetadataArray?, which is not set, so is blank. The manual states: metadata - The metadata is an array of metadata. Currently the only key supported is "density" with a value in pixels per inch (ppi). So, I wonder if, to get the benefit, I have to set pixels per inch somehow, in theMetadataArray. Best, Bill > On Aug 6, 2015, at 10:57 AM, William Prothero wrote: > > Paul: > FYI, I set up a test stack to figure out how to use the ?from object? method of getting a snapshot image. Here?s the steps I followed: > > 1. put all images that are to be captured in a group. > 2. set the group rect to the desired snapshot rect > 3. Lock the group rect > 4. Set the group to "scaling" > 5. In the script: set the snapRect to the rect of the group > 6. export snapshot from rect snapRect of Group "snapshotGrp" with metadata theMetadataArray to image mySnapShot > 7. set the rect of img mySnapShot to snapRect > 8. set the visible if img mySnapShot to TRUE > > Perhaps this will help others. I have no idea if this would solve the problem an occasional student has, but the method works fine in Macintosh OS 10.10.4 and livecode 7.0.6 > > What I have is a very large map image in the group. The map is magnified, scrolled, etc. When some kinds of data are plotted, graphic and field object are placed in the correct locations over the map. Then the snapshot is taken and the graphic objects (except for the map) are deleted. For large symbol datasets, like earthquakes, I draw the symbols directly into the snapshot graphic. That way the image data is much smaller than if I tried to draw into the large map, and also, the large map doesn?t need to be refreshed when data are erased from view. > > Thanks again for the hints. > Best, > Bill > >> On Aug 3, 2015, at 7:42 PM, Paul Hibbert wrote: >> >> Bill, >> >> I?ve done a few tests and it appears to me that "from rect? still relies on the screen output from the computer, whereas ?from object? allows LC to render an image of an object independent of the screen hardware. >> >> Try this: >> >> Move your stack so the map image is half off the screen, then make the snapshot, the image doesn?t render completely, this suggests to me that the app is accessing a screen representation of the image rather than using LC?s internal rendering, so 'I think' changing the snap routine to make a snap from say a group of the map and it?s associated data may cure the problem. >> >> eg. export snapshot from group ?mapAndData? to image ?mapSnap? ? then try the test above again. >> >> Paul >> >> >>> On Aug 3, 2015, at 16:22, William Prothero wrote: >>> >>> Paul: >>> Thanks for the hint. I do use the newer ?from? syntax. >>> export snapshot from rect snapRect to image "mapSnap" >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Bill >>> >>>> On Jul 31, 2015, at 3:35 PM, Paul Hibbert wrote: >>>> >>>> Bill, >>>> >>>> I?ve just read the following explanation from RG relating to another snapshot problem and wondered if it also relates to your student?s problems? >>>> >>>>> >>>>> The "from" option renders the object into a new buffer set up just for the snapshot, while the older "of" syntax grabs the object's rect from the composite screen buffer. >>>>> >>>>> LiveCode renders only the content region of a window but the window itself is rendered by the OS, so it has no choice but to obtain that image from the screen buffer. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Richard Gaskin >>>>> Fourth World Systems >>>>> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web >>>>> ____________________________________________________________________ >>>>> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com >>>> >>>> When I first read your post I wondered if the problem could be due to low grade or incompatible video cards in the affected machines, if that?s the case then the above explanation would make sense, to me at least. >>>> >>>> So, the question is, does your "export snapshot" script use the ?from? or ?of? option? >>>> >>>> If it?s the ?of? option then switching to the ?from? option may fix the problem your students are seeing. >>>> >>>> Just a thought. >>>> >>>> Paul >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Jul 16, 2015, at 14:07, William Prothero wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Folks: >>>>> I have an application that is being used by a class of Earth Science students and get failure reports from two who use Windows 8. One lives in Australia and one lives in Japan. The app works fine on Macintosh. I?ve also tested it on my own installation of both Windows 8.1 and 7, 32 bit and 64 bit versions. I can?t get the reported pixellation of the map and screen. >>>>> >>>>> I?m wondering if it is something related to foreign installations. The symptom is extreme pixellation of images captured with the "export snapshot? command. I live in the US. >>>>> >>>>> So, I wonder if somebody with Windows 8 would be willing to download the app and try it, and perhaps give me an idea of what might be going on. If it?s a bug in ?snapshot?, it would be important to be reported and fixed. Otherwise, I?m pretty stuck on figuring out what is going on. >>>>> >>>>> Here are links: >>>>> Windows zip file of the app: >>>>> Pixellated Image sent by a student >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for any help or feedback you can give me. >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> Bill >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> William A. Prothero >>>>> http://es.earthednet.org/ >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> >>>> Paul Hibbert >>>> paul at livecode.org >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> >> Regards, >> >> Paul Hibbert >> paul at livecode.org >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Aug 6 14:23:28 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2015 11:23:28 -0700 Subject: LiveCode Server latency causing empty results In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55C3A620.8020006@fourthworld.com> I don't think it's the URL length. URL length may sometimes be an issue, but most often only for the server; since this works in a browser I think it may be reasonably safe to rule that out. Cookies won't appear in the data, but they can be seen with whatever tools your browser provides for examining cookies. However, since this is an intermittent problem with a high success rate, I don't think this is related to required cookies not being provided. Have you tried other combinations of words of similar total length in both the browser and LC? Maybe it's a specific set of words, or the way they're URL encoded, or something else along those lines. Can you share the full URL of an example that fails? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com Roger Eller wrote: > Richard, if I view source of the result in a browser, it is just text, > exactly as the database spits it out, no formatting as it is not meant for > browser/human consumption. I haven't used or needed to use cookies > before. This application works for 99% of the requests. Based on the size > of the words searched for, usually 316 is the most it can get in a single > URL. I just did one with 392, and it worked in the browser, but not > LiveCode. > > ~Roger > > On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 1:09 PM, Richard Gaskin > wrote: > >> Roger Eller wrote: >> >> > The URL is really long, so maybe I am hitting some upper limit within >> > LiveCode. The same URL pasted into a browser (chrome) receives a >> > result, but get URL within LiveCode does not. The parameter is just a >> > long list my server script looks up in a database. The list length >> > varies. >> >> Could there be session info in that URL? Or perhaps the server is >> expecting a cookie that the browser provides but is not provided by your >> script's handling of the headers? >> >> -- >> Richard Gaskin From bonnmike at gmail.com Thu Aug 6 14:38:27 2015 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2015 12:38:27 -0600 Subject: LiveCode Server latency causing empty results In-Reply-To: <55C3A620.8020006@fourthworld.com> References: <55C3A620.8020006@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Not sure it'll make a difference, but have you considered using POST rather than get? On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 12:23 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > I don't think it's the URL length. URL length may sometimes be an issue, > but most often only for the server; since this works in a browser I think > it may be reasonably safe to rule that out. > > Cookies won't appear in the data, but they can be seen with whatever tools > your browser provides for examining cookies. However, since this is an > intermittent problem with a high success rate, I don't think this is > related to required cookies not being provided. > > Have you tried other combinations of words of similar total length in both > the browser and LC? Maybe it's a specific set of words, or the way they're > URL encoded, or something else along those lines. > > Can you share the full URL of an example that fails? > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > > Roger Eller wrote: > >> Richard, if I view source of the result in a browser, it is just text, >> exactly as the database spits it out, no formatting as it is not meant for >> browser/human consumption. I haven't used or needed to use cookies >> before. This application works for 99% of the requests. Based on the >> size >> of the words searched for, usually 316 is the most it can get in a single >> URL. I just did one with 392, and it worked in the browser, but not >> LiveCode. >> >> ~Roger >> >> On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 1:09 PM, Richard Gaskin > fourthworld.com> >> wrote: >> >> Roger Eller wrote: >>> >>> > The URL is really long, so maybe I am hitting some upper limit within >>> > LiveCode. The same URL pasted into a browser (chrome) receives a >>> > result, but get URL within LiveCode does not. The parameter is just a >>> > long list my server script looks up in a database. The list length >>> > varies. >>> >>> Could there be session info in that URL? Or perhaps the server is >>> expecting a cookie that the browser provides but is not provided by your >>> script's handling of the headers? >>> >>> -- >>> Richard Gaskin >>> >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From bonnmike at gmail.com Thu Aug 6 14:39:41 2015 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2015 12:39:41 -0600 Subject: developing iOS apps without a developer subscription In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If anyone works out the steps to do this in LC, I'd love to give it a try! On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 11:46 AM, Roger Eller wrote: > Do it! > > On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 10:58 AM, Colin Holgate > wrote: > > > To submit an app to the App Store you would have to have a developer > > account, but recently Apple made it possible to develop personal use apps > > using a free provisioning profile. Someone using Adobe AIR worked out the > > steps to do that, and I think they would work for LiveCode too: > > > > https://forums.adobe.com/message/7835794#7835794 > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Thu Aug 6 15:07:53 2015 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2015 15:07:53 -0400 Subject: LiveCode Server latency causing empty results In-Reply-To: References: <55C3A620.8020006@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <005001d0d07b$328116e0$978344a0$@net> I have always used the form==> put url ("https://blah.com?test=fdsfs&day=Tue") into MyVar. Some of my request have very long urls and I have had no problems as of yet. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Mike Bonner Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2015 2:38 PM To: How to use LiveCode Subject: Re: LiveCode Server latency causing empty results Not sure it'll make a difference, but have you considered using POST rather than get? On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 12:23 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > I don't think it's the URL length. URL length may sometimes be an > issue, but most often only for the server; since this works in a > browser I think it may be reasonably safe to rule that out. > > Cookies won't appear in the data, but they can be seen with whatever > tools your browser provides for examining cookies. However, since > this is an intermittent problem with a high success rate, I don't > think this is related to required cookies not being provided. > > Have you tried other combinations of words of similar total length in > both the browser and LC? Maybe it's a specific set of words, or the > way they're URL encoded, or something else along those lines. > > Can you share the full URL of an example that fails? > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > > Roger Eller wrote: > >> Richard, if I view source of the result in a browser, it is just >> text, exactly as the database spits it out, no formatting as it is >> not meant for browser/human consumption. I haven't used or needed to >> use cookies before. This application works for 99% of the requests. >> Based on the size of the words searched for, usually 316 is the most >> it can get in a single URL. I just did one with 392, and it worked >> in the browser, but not LiveCode. >> >> ~Roger >> >> On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 1:09 PM, Richard Gaskin > fourthworld.com> >> wrote: >> >> Roger Eller wrote: >>> >>> > The URL is really long, so maybe I am hitting some upper limit >>> > within LiveCode. The same URL pasted into a browser (chrome) >>> > receives a result, but get URL within LiveCode does not. The >>> > parameter is just a long list my server script looks up in a >>> > database. The list length varies. >>> >>> Could there be session info in that URL? Or perhaps the server is >>> expecting a cookie that the browser provides but is not provided by >>> your script's handling of the headers? >>> >>> -- >>> Richard Gaskin >>> >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From david at viral.academy Thu Aug 6 17:14:30 2015 From: david at viral.academy (David Bovill) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2015 22:14:30 +0100 Subject: LiveCode Server latency causing empty results In-Reply-To: <005001d0d07b$328116e0$978344a0$@net> References: <55C3A620.8020006@fourthworld.com> <005001d0d07b$328116e0$978344a0$@net> Message-ID: I've had the same issue. This is how I see the problem. UCL encoding. Long auto generated url's can have this that break the rules rule coding wise. The browser and many libraries seem tolerant of this automatically urlencoding stuff internally. Live code fails because it's not doing that? On Thursday, August 6, 2015, Ralph DiMola wrote: > I have always used the form==> put url > ("https://blah.com?test=fdsfs&day=Tue") into MyVar. Some of my request > have > very long urls and I have had no problems as of yet. > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > > -----Original Message----- > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com > ] On Behalf > Of Mike Bonner > Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2015 2:38 PM > To: How to use LiveCode > Subject: Re: LiveCode Server latency causing empty results > > Not sure it'll make a difference, but have you considered using POST rather > than get? > > On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 12:23 PM, Richard Gaskin < > ambassador at fourthworld.com > > wrote: > > > I don't think it's the URL length. URL length may sometimes be an > > issue, but most often only for the server; since this works in a > > browser I think it may be reasonably safe to rule that out. > > > > Cookies won't appear in the data, but they can be seen with whatever > > tools your browser provides for examining cookies. However, since > > this is an intermittent problem with a high success rate, I don't > > think this is related to required cookies not being provided. > > > > Have you tried other combinations of words of similar total length in > > both the browser and LC? Maybe it's a specific set of words, or the > > way they're URL encoded, or something else along those lines. > > > > Can you share the full URL of an example that fails? > > > > -- > > Richard Gaskin > > Fourth World Systems > > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > > > > > Roger Eller wrote: > > > >> Richard, if I view source of the result in a browser, it is just > >> text, exactly as the database spits it out, no formatting as it is > >> not meant for browser/human consumption. I haven't used or needed to > >> use cookies before. This application works for 99% of the requests. > >> Based on the size of the words searched for, usually 316 is the most > >> it can get in a single URL. I just did one with 392, and it worked > >> in the browser, but not LiveCode. > >> > >> ~Roger > >> > >> On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 1:09 PM, Richard Gaskin >> fourthworld.com> > >> wrote: > >> > >> Roger Eller wrote: > >>> > >>> > The URL is really long, so maybe I am hitting some upper limit > >>> > within LiveCode. The same URL pasted into a browser (chrome) > >>> > receives a result, but get URL within LiveCode does not. The > >>> > parameter is just a long list my server script looks up in a > >>> > database. The list length varies. > >>> > >>> Could there be session info in that URL? Or perhaps the server is > >>> expecting a cookie that the browser provides but is not provided by > >>> your script's handling of the headers? > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Richard Gaskin > >>> > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From scott at tactilemedia.com Thu Aug 6 21:53:23 2015 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2015 18:53:23 -0700 Subject: [ANN] Table Lab Stack Message-ID: I recently posted a little demo of a technique to customize a field with alternating colored lines, making a row-based table with no additional objects. You can download the stack from the forums: http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=25002 Should work in LC5.5 and later. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Fri Aug 7 00:15:52 2015 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2015 00:15:52 -0400 Subject: [ANN] Table Lab Stack In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ooooooh, more fun toys for Mikey... I used to love this about HC, too, there is just so much that creative people can do to tweak the tool to make nifty widgets that make your projects better... On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 9:53 PM, Scott Rossi wrote: > I recently posted a little demo of a technique to customize a field with > alternating colored lines, making a row-based table with no additional > objects. You can download the stack from the forums: > http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=25002 > > > Should work in LC5.5 and later. > > Regards, > > Scott Rossi > Creative Director > Tactile Media, UX/UI Design > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From irog at mac.com Fri Aug 7 00:48:55 2015 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2015 21:48:55 -0700 Subject: [ANN] Table Lab Stack In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: That is very cool! Thank you, Scott. Cheers, Roger > On Aug 6, 2015, at 6:53 PM, Scott Rossi wrote: > > I recently posted a little demo of a technique to customize a field with > alternating colored lines, making a row-based table with no additional > objects. You can download the stack from the forums: > http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=25002 > > > Should work in LC5.5 and later. > > Regards, > > Scott Rossi > Creative Director > Tactile Media, UX/UI Design > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Aug 7 01:57:47 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2015 00:57:47 -0500 Subject: [ANN] Table Lab Stack In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55C448DB.7050603@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/6/2015 8:53 PM, Scott Rossi wrote: > I recently posted a little demo of a technique to customize a field with > alternating colored lines, making a row-based table with no additional > objects. You can download the stack from the forums: > http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=25002 Very nice! And useful too. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From bogdanoff at me.com Fri Aug 7 04:58:06 2015 From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff) Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2015 01:58:06 -0700 Subject: Anomalous Script behavior In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This is the issue I was having with a stack with a player that sends callbacks that a script handler doesn?t seem to respond to? LiveCode 7.1.0 dp1 An update. I was able to isolate the problem. SAVING the stack sets things aright, for awhile... This is how my script should work: 1. I load an audio file from a remote server into a player 2. I set the callbacks of the player 3. In my application (an image of music notation with button borders marking specific parts of the music notation) I?m setting the showBorder of a series of card buttons to true when a callback is received from the player. So, I set the showBorder of the first button to true, and start the player 3. The player sends the first callback and the script sets the showBorder of the first button to false and sets the showBorder of the second button to true. The player sends the second callback and the 2nd button border is set to false and the 3rd border is set to true, and so on with each subsequent callback. This works very nicely (for a while). Then I change the audio file in the player. Then things fail: 1. The player sends callbacks reliably, the handler is invoked to do the setting of the showBorders, but the lines in the script that set the showBorders are seemingly not performed. The first border is set (number 3 above), but the subsequent borders are not. 2. I isolated it down to an issue of these lines: set the showBorder of card button tPrevButton to false set the showBorder of card button tNextButton to true These buttons exist on the card, but the engine seems to not know about them. It neither turns the border off on the first or the border on on the second. There are no error warnings. In fact these lines SEEM to be skipped. So, I change the script to the following: if there is a card button tNextButton then set the showBorder of card button tNextButton to true else put ?ERROR? end if I click APPLY in the editor. I start the player and get the ERROR. 3. Now I SAVE the stack and start the player and I get NO error. The SAVING of the stack seems to fix the problem. It application works great again as I play the same audio file. 4. I load another audio file in, the error returns. I save the stack and it starts working. In fact I can save the stack while the player is playing and the borders are not working, and as soon as the save is finished, the borders start to work properly. Doing a SAVE always works, APPLYING script changes does not. It?s a large stack, 179 MB, with over 3000 cards. The application has a total of 10 main stacks using 300 MB of memory that are loaded in. It worked in LC 6.1.3 and LC 6.7.7, but fails in LC 7. Memory issue??? I filed a bug report, 15689. Peter Bogdanoff UCLA On Jul 25, 2015, at 11:27 PM, Peter Bogdanoff wrote: > Mark, > > I tried it in LC 6.7.7 RC1 and did NOT see the problem. > > (The same stack works properly in 6.3.1.) > > Doubting my sanity, I went back and tried the very same stack in 7.1. RC1 and saw the problem immediately. The script just stops executing. > > The player continues to send callbacks with apparently valid parameters (a digit) that do invoke the handler, but that handler won?t continue. No errors, no nada. > > We really, really, really want to move to LC 7 for English/Chinese language and Unicode (Chinese looks great in 7, bad in 6). People in China are begging for us to make available our Music History program in China. We are happy to see the improved player in the newest version of LC as all our audio is on a remote server and the Chinese mostly use Windows. > > As the Thermian Mathesar with fist over heart cries to Jason Nesmith in Galaxy Quest, ?You are our last hope!" > > Peter Bogdanoff > UCLA > > > On Jul 24, 2015, at 9:42 AM, Mark Waddingham wrote: > >> Hi Peter, >> >> Do you see a similar thing in 6.7? >> >> The reason I ask is that if the problem is only occurring in an a handler being invoked by the engine as part of callbacks set by the callback property on a player it could be something to do with that specific case. >> >> The player implementation on Mac changed completely from 6.7 onwards... >> >> Mark. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On 24 Jul 2015, at 06:15, Peter Bogdanoff wrote: >>> >>> Using LC 7.1 dp1 >>> >>> Part of a script sometimes doesn?t function?sometimes it works just fine. Sometimes it refuses to continue to execute the rest of a handler. This refusal will happen over and over until some point in my testing it starts working again beautifully. >>> >>> It?s a group script with 35,655 characters. Is there a limit to the number of characters? >>> >>> I put in breakpoints that are sometimes reached, sometimes not. >>> >>> It?s a handler that is being called by callbacks in a player as the media plays, so it?s difficult to debug while the media is playing. So I put some code in to put data into a field when those lines of the script are reached. Then I can see the progression through the script in real time. When it?s not working properly, while the handler IS receiving the callback calls, that field stays empty. >>> >>> Any ideas? >>> >>> Peter Bogdanoff >>> UCLA >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From jbv at souslelogo.com Fri Aug 7 05:52:53 2015 From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2015 12:52:53 +0300 Subject: Could someone explain this por favor ? Message-ID: <709bb7c2914abaf36a10c31e87a16773.squirrel@continental.on-rev.com> Hi list On the client side I have this script : get myVar get compress(it) get base64encode(it) POST ("a=" & urlencode(it)) to URL ("http://www.domain.com/irev/myScript.lc?") put base64decode(it) into myVar put decompress(myV) into myVar answer myVar and on the server side I have : put $_POST["a"] into myVar put URLDecode(myVar) into myVar put base64decode(myVar) into myVar put decompress(myVar) into myVar and this returns a compilation error on the server side. But if I remove the line "put URLDecode(myVar) into myVar", then it works... What am I missing ? Thanks in advance jbv From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Fri Aug 7 06:13:38 2015 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2015 12:13:38 +0200 Subject: Could someone explain this por favor ? In-Reply-To: <709bb7c2914abaf36a10c31e87a16773.squirrel@continental.on-rev.com> References: <709bb7c2914abaf36a10c31e87a16773.squirrel@continental.on-rev.com> Message-ID: <55C484D2.3040200@economy-x-talk.com> Hi JBV, The Apache server decodes the URL before passing it on to the LiveCode engine. The same happens with PHP. -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer KvK: 50277553 Installer Maker for LiveCode: http://qery.us/468 Buy my new book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner" http://qery.us/3fi LiveCode on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/runrev/ On 8/7/2015 11:52, jbv at souslelogo.com wrote: > Hi list > > On the client side I have this script : > > get myVar > get compress(it) > get base64encode(it) > > POST ("a=" & urlencode(it)) to URL > ("http://www.domain.com/irev/myScript.lc?") > put base64decode(it) into myVar > put decompress(myV) into myVar > answer myVar > > and on the server side I have : > > put $_POST["a"] into myVar > put URLDecode(myVar) into myVar > put base64decode(myVar) into myVar > put decompress(myVar) into myVar > > > and this returns a compilation error on the server side. > But if I remove the line "put URLDecode(myVar) into myVar", then it works... > > What am I missing ? > > Thanks in advance > jbv > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From christer at mindcrea.com Fri Aug 7 06:34:19 2015 From: christer at mindcrea.com (christer) Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2015 13:34:19 +0300 Subject: Livecode server latency... Message-ID: My app uses Tio, and the latency is really severe. A new user won't accept 10 sec wait, not to speak about 30. The latency prohibits user's registration and also user's relicensing. RR should focus the issue because it is a showstopper. From bonnmike at gmail.com Fri Aug 7 07:41:14 2015 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2015 05:41:14 -0600 Subject: Could someone explain this por favor ? In-Reply-To: <55C484D2.3040200@economy-x-talk.com> References: <709bb7c2914abaf36a10c31e87a16773.squirrel@continental.on-rev.com> <55C484D2.3040200@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: If I understand correctly, the base64 encode will turn the data into something like this: TWFuIGlzIGRpc3Rpbmd1aXNoZWQsIG5vdCBvbmx5IGJ5IGhpcyByZWFzb24sIGJ1dCBieSB0aGlz IHNpbmd1bGFyIHBhc3Npb24gZnJvbSBvdGhlciBhbmltYWxzLCB3aGljaCBpcyBhIGx1c3Qgb2Yg dGhlIG1pbmQsIHRoYXQgYnkgYSBwZXJzZXZlcmFuY2Ugb2YgZGVsaWdodCBpbiB0aGUgY29udGlu dWVkIGFuZCBpbmRlZmF0aWdhYmxlIGdlbmVyYXRpb24gb2Yga25vd2xlZGdlLCBleGNlZWRzIHRo ZSBzaG9ydCB2ZWhlbWVuY2Ugb2YgYW55IGNhcm5hbCBwbGVhc3VyZS4= At which point UrlEncode() would serve no purpose. Having said that.. I'm not sure why urldecode is throwing an error. Even if you pass it a straight unencoded text string, it should just.. do nothing to it. (If there are no % signs, theres nothing to decode.. It might hork something if there ARE % signs, but it shouldn't cause a crash) Either way though, I think it should be Either/Or. Either url encode, OR base64 encode. On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 4:13 AM, Mark Schonewille < m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com> wrote: > Hi JBV, > > The Apache server decodes the URL before passing it on to the LiveCode > engine. The same happens with PHP. > > -- > Best regards, > > Mark Schonewille > > Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering > Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com > Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer > KvK: 50277553 > > Installer Maker for LiveCode: > http://qery.us/468 > > Buy my new book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner" > http://qery.us/3fi > > LiveCode on Facebook: > https://www.facebook.com/groups/runrev/ > > > On 8/7/2015 11:52, jbv at souslelogo.com wrote: > >> Hi list >> >> On the client side I have this script : >> >> get myVar >> get compress(it) >> get base64encode(it) >> >> POST ("a=" & urlencode(it)) to URL >> ("http://www.domain.com/irev/myScript.lc?") >> put base64decode(it) into myVar >> put decompress(myV) into myVar >> answer myVar >> >> and on the server side I have : >> >> put $_POST["a"] into myVar >> put URLDecode(myVar) into myVar >> put base64decode(myVar) into myVar >> put decompress(myVar) into myVar >> >> >> and this returns a compilation error on the server side. >> But if I remove the line "put URLDecode(myVar) into myVar", then it >> works... >> >> What am I missing ? >> >> Thanks in advance >> jbv >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From jbv at souslelogo.com Fri Aug 7 07:50:20 2015 From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2015 14:50:20 +0300 Subject: Could someone explain this por favor ? In-Reply-To: References: <709bb7c2914abaf36a10c31e87a16773.squirrel@continental.on-rev.com> <55C484D2.3040200@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: <375f5bb9f5e29a0b4c9141f4049f1719.squirrel@continental.on-rev.com> Hi Mike > > Having said that.. I'm not sure why urldecode is throwing an error. Even > if > you pass it a straight unencoded text string, it should just.. do nothing > to it. (If there are no % signs, theres nothing to decode.. It might hork > something if there ARE % signs, but it shouldn't cause a crash) > Either way though, I think it should be Either/Or. Either url encode, OR > base64 encode. > Actually, in the server-side script I posted earlier, it's this line that's throwing an error : put decompress(myV) into myVar jbv From bonnmike at gmail.com Fri Aug 7 07:59:38 2015 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2015 05:59:38 -0600 Subject: Could someone explain this por favor ? In-Reply-To: References: <709bb7c2914abaf36a10c31e87a16773.squirrel@continental.on-rev.com> <55C484D2.3040200@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: NVM, urlencode does indeed change the base64 encoded data, but still doesn't seem to be much point. Having said that, Mark is right. (Marks usually are) Since its the decompress that throws the error, (as I've just seen on my own test) it is looking like what goes in using urlencode, and what comes out, are not the same. Since, as Mark said, apache decodes when the data comes in, then its likely that the second urldecode (done by you, after the server has done it once) munges things to the point where decompress can't work. On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 5:41 AM, Mike Bonner wrote: > If I understand correctly, the base64 encode will turn the data into > something like this: > > TWFuIGlzIGRpc3Rpbmd1aXNoZWQsIG5vdCBvbmx5IGJ5IGhpcyByZWFzb24sIGJ1dCBieSB0aGlz > IHNpbmd1bGFyIHBhc3Npb24gZnJvbSBvdGhlciBhbmltYWxzLCB3aGljaCBpcyBhIGx1c3Qgb2Yg > dGhlIG1pbmQsIHRoYXQgYnkgYSBwZXJzZXZlcmFuY2Ugb2YgZGVsaWdodCBpbiB0aGUgY29udGlu > dWVkIGFuZCBpbmRlZmF0aWdhYmxlIGdlbmVyYXRpb24gb2Yga25vd2xlZGdlLCBleGNlZWRzIHRo > ZSBzaG9ydCB2ZWhlbWVuY2Ugb2YgYW55IGNhcm5hbCBwbGVhc3VyZS4= > > At which point UrlEncode() would serve no purpose. > > Having said that.. I'm not sure why urldecode is throwing an error. Even > if you pass it a straight unencoded text string, it should just.. do > nothing to it. (If there are no % signs, theres nothing to decode.. It > might hork something if there ARE % signs, but it shouldn't cause a crash) > Either way though, I think it should be Either/Or. Either url encode, OR > base64 encode. > > On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 4:13 AM, Mark Schonewille < > m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com> wrote: > >> Hi JBV, >> >> The Apache server decodes the URL before passing it on to the LiveCode >> engine. The same happens with PHP. >> >> -- >> Best regards, >> >> Mark Schonewille >> >> Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering >> Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com >> Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer >> KvK: 50277553 >> >> Installer Maker for LiveCode: >> http://qery.us/468 >> >> Buy my new book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner" >> http://qery.us/3fi >> >> LiveCode on Facebook: >> https://www.facebook.com/groups/runrev/ >> >> >> On 8/7/2015 11:52, jbv at souslelogo.com wrote: >> >>> Hi list >>> >>> On the client side I have this script : >>> >>> get myVar >>> get compress(it) >>> get base64encode(it) >>> >>> POST ("a=" & urlencode(it)) to URL >>> ("http://www.domain.com/irev/myScript.lc?") >>> put base64decode(it) into myVar >>> put decompress(myV) into myVar >>> answer myVar >>> >>> and on the server side I have : >>> >>> put $_POST["a"] into myVar >>> put URLDecode(myVar) into myVar >>> put base64decode(myVar) into myVar >>> put decompress(myVar) into myVar >>> >>> >>> and this returns a compilation error on the server side. >>> But if I remove the line "put URLDecode(myVar) into myVar", then it >>> works... >>> >>> What am I missing ? >>> >>> Thanks in advance >>> jbv >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > From jbv at souslelogo.com Fri Aug 7 08:34:48 2015 From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2015 15:34:48 +0300 Subject: Could someone explain this por favor ? In-Reply-To: References: <709bb7c2914abaf36a10c31e87a16773.squirrel@continental.on-rev.com> <55C484D2.3040200@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: Mike, When I run this simple test on my Mac (no client / server), it works no matter how many successive "get URLdecode(it)" lines : get "the sky is blue" get compress(it) get base64encode(it) get URLencode(it) get URLdecode(it) get URLdecode(it) get base64decode(it) get decompress(it) put it So, if Apache already does URLdecode in a POST request, why does decompress throw an error ? Could it be that the Apache URLdecode screws the content of the string ? jbv > NVM, urlencode does indeed change the base64 encoded data, but still > doesn't seem to be much point. Having said that, Mark is right. (Marks > usually are) > > Since its the decompress that throws the error, (as I've just seen on my > own test) it is looking like what goes in using urlencode, and what comes > out, are not the same. Since, as Mark said, apache decodes when the data > comes in, then its likely that the second urldecode (done by you, after > the > server has done it once) munges things to the point where decompress can't > work. > From bonnmike at gmail.com Fri Aug 7 10:02:38 2015 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2015 08:02:38 -0600 Subject: Could someone explain this por favor ? In-Reply-To: References: <709bb7c2914abaf36a10c31e87a16773.squirrel@continental.on-rev.com> <55C484D2.3040200@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: No clue WHY it would react different, but the decompress error does seem to indicate the compressed data ends up "un-decompressable" (c) So yeah it does appear that either a) apache does something a bit different when the data comes in, or b) the urldecode on the server does things slightly different. You might ONLY urlencode, then return the data from the server straight (before decode) and a second copy after decode, and see if what you put in ends up as what you get out. (obviously, the data doesn't need to be decoded on the apache side, because it works.. But it'd be interesting to see what happens) On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 6:34 AM, wrote: > Mike, > > When I run this simple test on my Mac (no client / server), > it works no matter how many successive "get URLdecode(it)" > lines : > > get "the sky is blue" > get compress(it) > get base64encode(it) > get URLencode(it) > get URLdecode(it) > get URLdecode(it) > get base64decode(it) > get decompress(it) > put it > > So, if Apache already does URLdecode in a POST request, > why does decompress throw an error ? > Could it be that the Apache URLdecode screws the content > of the string ? > > jbv > > > NVM, urlencode does indeed change the base64 encoded data, but still > > doesn't seem to be much point. Having said that, Mark is right. (Marks > > usually are) > > > > Since its the decompress that throws the error, (as I've just seen on my > > own test) it is looking like what goes in using urlencode, and what comes > > out, are not the same. Since, as Mark said, apache decodes when the data > > comes in, then its likely that the second urldecode (done by you, after > > the > > server has done it once) munges things to the point where decompress > can't > > work. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Fri Aug 7 10:40:15 2015 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2015 16:40:15 +0200 Subject: Could someone explain this por favor ? In-Reply-To: References: <709bb7c2914abaf36a10c31e87a16773.squirrel@continental.on-rev.com> <55C484D2.3040200@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: <55C4C34F.3060901@economy-x-talk.com> Hi JBV and Mike, On one occasion, I had a case where the carriage returns were converted to crlf somewhere between the app and the php script. I have also had a case where trailing cr's were added to the URL. This could cause the decompress function to fail. I would advice writing both encoded strings, the one produced by the client and the one by the server, to a file and comparing them. Download the file from the server with a good FTP programme. -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer KvK: 50277553 Installer Maker for LiveCode: http://qery.us/468 Buy my new book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner" http://qery.us/3fi LiveCode on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/runrev/ On 8/7/2015 16:02, Mike Bonner wrote: > No clue WHY it would react different, but the decompress error does seem to > indicate the compressed data ends up "un-decompressable" (c) > So yeah it does appear that either a) apache does something a bit different > when the data comes in, or b) the urldecode on the server does things > slightly different. > > You might ONLY urlencode, then return the data from the server straight > (before decode) and a second copy after decode, and see if what you put in > ends up as what you get out. (obviously, the data doesn't need to be > decoded on the apache side, because it works.. But it'd be interesting to > see what happens) > > On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 6:34 AM, wrote: > >> Mike, >> >> When I run this simple test on my Mac (no client / server), >> it works no matter how many successive "get URLdecode(it)" >> lines : >> >> get "the sky is blue" >> get compress(it) >> get base64encode(it) >> get URLencode(it) >> get URLdecode(it) >> get URLdecode(it) >> get base64decode(it) >> get decompress(it) >> put it >> >> So, if Apache already does URLdecode in a POST request, >> why does decompress throw an error ? >> Could it be that the Apache URLdecode screws the content >> of the string ? >> >> jbv >> >>> NVM, urlencode does indeed change the base64 encoded data, but still >>> doesn't seem to be much point. Having said that, Mark is right. (Marks >>> usually are) >>> >>> Since its the decompress that throws the error, (as I've just seen on my >>> own test) it is looking like what goes in using urlencode, and what comes >>> out, are not the same. Since, as Mark said, apache decodes when the data >>> comes in, then its likely that the second urldecode (done by you, after >>> the >>> server has done it once) munges things to the point where decompress >> can't >>> work. >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From jbv at souslelogo.com Fri Aug 7 10:48:20 2015 From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2015 17:48:20 +0300 Subject: Could someone explain this por favor ? In-Reply-To: References: <709bb7c2914abaf36a10c31e87a16773.squirrel@continental.on-rev.com> <55C484D2.3040200@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: <3736d7db98dfdff5e36e70794fd5c5cf.squirrel@continental.on-rev.com> Mike, > > You might ONLY urlencode, then return the data from the server straight > (before decode) and a second copy after decode, and see if what you put in > ends up as what you get out. (obviously, the data doesn't need to be > decoded on the apache side, because it works.. But it'd be interesting to > see what happens) > I just tried, and I get EXACTLY the same base64 string on the server before and after urldecode... Needless to say I'm puzzled... jbv From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Fri Aug 7 11:09:59 2015 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2015 11:09:59 -0400 Subject: [YO EDINBURGH!] Microsoft Open-Sources It's Toolkit For Making iOS Apps Run On Win 10 Message-ID: http://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-open-sources-its-ios-toolkit-for-building-windows-10-apps/?tag=nl.e539&s_cid=e539&ttag=e539&ftag=TRE17cfd61 -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Fri Aug 7 11:29:06 2015 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2015 11:29:06 -0400 Subject: Could someone explain this por favor ? In-Reply-To: <3736d7db98dfdff5e36e70794fd5c5cf.squirrel@continental.on-rev.com> References: <709bb7c2914abaf36a10c31e87a16773.squirrel@continental.on-rev.com> <55C484D2.3040200@economy-x-talk.com> <3736d7db98dfdff5e36e70794fd5c5cf.squirrel@continental.on-rev.com> Message-ID: <004c01d0d125$cc7c2eb0$65748c10$@net> I only urlencode data going to the server from the client. I don't urldecode in the server script. I did urldecode the $_GET array when I first used the LC server. I found later that I didn't need to do this. This seems to be done already when the url argument data is put into the $_GET array. I return(in the server script) "return arrayencode(MyArrayWithReturnedData). Then in the client I do: Try put arraydecode(ReturnedData) into ReturnedData end try if ReturnedData is an array then -- process the data in the array Else -- Error processing here End if To date I have not had any problems with the $_GET array or the returned data. One of my parameters is an email address and the "@" is already urldecoded in the $_GET array. Based on this thread I now question if I am just lucky by not urldecoding the $_GET array? Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of jbv at souslelogo.com Sent: Friday, August 07, 2015 10:48 AM To: How to use LiveCode Subject: Re: Could someone explain this por favor ? Mike, > > You might ONLY urlencode, then return the data from the server > straight (before decode) and a second copy after decode, and see if > what you put in ends up as what you get out. (obviously, the data > doesn't need to be decoded on the apache side, because it works.. But > it'd be interesting to see what happens) > I just tried, and I get EXACTLY the same base64 string on the server before and after urldecode... Needless to say I'm puzzled... jbv _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Fri Aug 7 12:09:11 2015 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2015 18:09:11 +0200 Subject: Could someone explain this por favor ? In-Reply-To: <004c01d0d125$cc7c2eb0$65748c10$@net> References: <709bb7c2914abaf36a10c31e87a16773.squirrel@continental.on-rev.com> <55C484D2.3040200@economy-x-talk.com> <3736d7db98dfdff5e36e70794fd5c5cf.squirrel@continental.on-rev.com> <004c01d0d125$cc7c2eb0$65748c10$@net> Message-ID: <55C4D827.7040802@economy-x-talk.com> Hi Ralph, No, you're not lucky. This is how it is supposed to be. Data sent to the server should be urlEncoded if sent as a URL, but data received from the server don't need to be urlDecoded. -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer KvK: 50277553 Installer Maker for LiveCode: http://qery.us/468 Buy my new book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner" http://qery.us/3fi LiveCode on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/runrev/ On 8/7/2015 17:29, Ralph DiMola wrote: > I only urlencode data going to the server from the client. I don't urldecode > in the server script. I did urldecode the $_GET array when I first used the > LC server. I found later that I didn't need to do this. This seems to be > done already when the url argument data is put into the $_GET array. I > return(in the server script) "return arrayencode(MyArrayWithReturnedData). > Then in the client I do: > > Try > put arraydecode(ReturnedData) into ReturnedData > end try > > if ReturnedData is an array then > -- process the data in the array > Else > -- Error processing here > End if > > To date I have not had any problems with the $_GET array or the returned > data. One of my parameters is an email address and the "@" is already > urldecoded in the $_GET array. Based on this thread I now question if I am > just lucky by not urldecoding the $_GET array? > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf > Of jbv at souslelogo.com > Sent: Friday, August 07, 2015 10:48 AM > To: How to use LiveCode > Subject: Re: Could someone explain this por favor ? > > Mike, > >> >> You might ONLY urlencode, then return the data from the server >> straight (before decode) and a second copy after decode, and see if >> what you put in ends up as what you get out. (obviously, the data >> doesn't need to be decoded on the apache side, because it works.. But >> it'd be interesting to see what happens) >> > > I just tried, and I get EXACTLY the same base64 string on the server before > and after urldecode... > Needless to say I'm puzzled... > > jbv > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Fri Aug 7 12:56:07 2015 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2015 12:56:07 -0400 Subject: LiveCode Server latency causing empty results In-Reply-To: References: <55C3A620.8020006@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: I want to try POST, but I don't know how to feed it my list as a parameter without having a form involved. Any examples of POST without a html form would be helpful. ~Roger On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 2:38 PM, Mike Bonner wrote: > Not sure it'll make a difference, but have you considered using POST rather > than get? > > From bonnmike at gmail.com Fri Aug 7 13:14:34 2015 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2015 11:14:34 -0600 Subject: LiveCode Server latency causing empty results In-Reply-To: References: <55C3A620.8020006@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: put "name1=value1&name2=value2&name3=value3" into tPost post tPost to URL Its also handy to use liburlformdata to build your post string also liburlmultipartformdata and liburlmultipartformaddpart On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 10:56 AM, Roger Eller wrote: > I want to try POST, but I don't know how to feed it my list as a parameter > without having a form involved. Any examples of POST without a html form > would be helpful. > > ~Roger > > > On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 2:38 PM, Mike Bonner wrote: > > > Not sure it'll make a difference, but have you considered using POST > rather > > than get? > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Fri Aug 7 14:49:50 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2015 11:49:50 -0700 Subject: Livecode server latency... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55C4FDCE.80305@fourthworld.com> christer wrote: > My app uses Tio, and the latency is really severe. A new user won't > accept 10 sec wait, not to speak about 30. The latency prohibits > user's registration and also user's relicensing. RR should focus the > issue because it is a showstopper. With a delay that long they probably will once they see your bug report. What's the bug report number? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Fri Aug 7 15:04:02 2015 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2015 15:04:02 -0400 Subject: Livecode server latency... In-Reply-To: <55C4FDCE.80305@fourthworld.com> References: <55C4FDCE.80305@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <005001d0d143$d2f85b10$78e91130$@net> I am having the same problem with user registration. The sendmail shell take 11-15 seconds to complete. I reported this to David W. [Ticket#2015072310005161] His response: >On 7/23/2015 David Williams wrote: >Regarding the delay in sending an email, this could be due to a variety of reasons such as the mail server being busy, or other factors related to the >underlying system. >However, it may be possible to avoid this by adding a & symbol at the end of the shell command, which causes it to detach from the process and return >the shell command immediately. I will investigate and get back to you. I have not heard back yet. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Phone: 518-636-3998 Ex:11 Cell: 518-796-9332 -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Richard Gaskin Sent: Friday, August 07, 2015 2:50 PM To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Subject: Re: Livecode server latency... christer wrote: > My app uses Tio, and the latency is really severe. A new user won't > accept 10 sec wait, not to speak about 30. The latency prohibits > user's registration and also user's relicensing. RR should focus the > issue because it is a showstopper. With a delay that long they probably will once they see your bug report. What's the bug report number? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From prothero at earthednet.org Fri Aug 7 16:09:37 2015 From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2015 13:09:37 -0700 Subject: Sending a POST string In-Reply-To: References: <55C3A620.8020006@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <860A5E55-FB63-4078-97DA-9AB01EB59A68@earthednet.org> For Roger Eller: Here is what I use. I post to a php script. I?ll share the php, but it should work for livecode servers too. If anybody wants the scripts, contact me off the list. Best, Bill --The data are returned in an array. -- dRet[i][columnName] holds the value of the data for a particular column -- calling: specify the table name and the queryOption --Leave column parameters unset if the added condition is not required. function db_queryDBTable theTable,queryOption,col1Name,col1Contents,col2Name,col2Contents --form the query put "theQuery" into key_1 switch queryOption case "all" put "select * from "&theTable into value_1 break case "row" put "select * from "&theTable&" WHERE "&col1Name&"='"&col1Contents&"'" into value_1 if col2Name <> "" then put " AND "&col2Name&"='"&col2Contents&"'" after value_1 end if break end switch put "outOption" into key_2 put "xml" into value_2 get libUrlFormData(key_1,value_1,key_2,value_2) --post the query ?the php script is in a folder scgi-bin. post it to url "http://mywebsite.org/scgi-bin/dbGeneralQueryXML.php?" put URLDecode(it) into theXML ?this is my own XML parsing routine. put db_parseXMLFromQuery(theXML) into theDataArray return theDataArray end db_queryDBTable > On Aug 7, 2015, at 10:14 AM, Mike Bonner wrote: > > put "name1=value1&name2=value2&name3=value3" into tPost > post tPost to URL > > Its also handy to use liburlformdata to build your post string > also liburlmultipartformdata and liburlmultipartformaddpart > > On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 10:56 AM, Roger Eller > wrote: > >> I want to try POST, but I don't know how to feed it my list as a parameter >> without having a form involved. Any examples of POST without a html form >> would be helpful. >> >> ~Roger >> >> >> On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 2:38 PM, Mike Bonner wrote: >> >>> Not sure it'll make a difference, but have you considered using POST >> rather >>> than get? >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk Fri Aug 7 17:24:31 2015 From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2015 22:24:31 +0100 Subject: Could someone explain this por favor ? In-Reply-To: References: <709bb7c2914abaf36a10c31e87a16773.squirrel@continental.on-rev.com> <55C484D2.3040200@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: <145C3E79-7948-4845-9F56-F2C6BF7ABB7B@lacscentre.co.uk> > When I run this simple test on my Mac (no client / server), > it works no matter how many successive "get URLdecode(it)" > lines : > > get "the sky is blue" > get compress(it) > get base64encode(it) > get URLencode(it) > get URLdecode(it) > get URLdecode(it) > get base64decode(it) > get decompress(it) > put it > > So, if Apache already does URLdecode in a POST request, > why does decompress throw an error ? > Could it be that the Apache URLdecode screws the content > of the string ? I think using urlDecoding twice will cause trouble if the original string that is UrlEncoded contains a character that can be decoded. For example, compare these: get "the sky is blue" get URLencode(it) get URLdecode(it) get URLdecode(it) put it get "three + two + one" get URLencode(it) get URLdecode(it) get URLdecode(it) put it The output in the second is not the same as the original. From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Fri Aug 7 17:35:22 2015 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2015 17:35:22 -0400 Subject: LiveCode Server latency causing empty results In-Reply-To: References: <55C3A620.8020006@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: In the multiLine messageBox, I have this script: --------------------- put empty into tForm put "http://myServer/post_this.lc" into tUrl put "dave" into tName put "hello" into tMessage if libURLMultipartFormData (tForm, "name", tName, "message", tMessage) is not empty then answer it ##error else set the httpHeaders to line 1 of tForm post line 2 to -1 of tForm to url tUrl ## check the result, etc., here set the httpHeaders to empty end if --------------------- In a "post_this.lc" file in the www root, I have this: I THINK THIS IS WHAT I DON'T FULLY UNDERSTAND. Nothing is returned when I execute the script in the messageBox. --------------------- --------------------- ~Roger On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 1:14 PM, Mike Bonner wrote: > put "name1=value1&name2=value2&name3=value3" into tPost > post tPost to URL > > Its also handy to use liburlformdata to build your post string > also liburlmultipartformdata and liburlmultipartformaddpart > From bonnmike at gmail.com Fri Aug 7 18:20:44 2015 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2015 16:20:44 -0600 Subject: LiveCode Server latency causing empty results In-Reply-To: References: <55C3A620.8020006@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: A couple things, probably just typos but.. Your function begin and end names don't match. You have 2 put lines on the same line, which won't work. (type on this one i'm sure) When you are getting stuff back out of the $_POST variable, "name" and "message" are the array keys. not "tName" or "tMessage" To simplify (since this is a very simple example) you could do this on the server side: For the client script (testing) this is what I ended up with. put empty into tForm put "http://myserver/testing.lc" into tUrl put "dave" into tName put "hello" into tMessage if libURLMultipartFormData (tForm, "name", tName, "message", tMessage) is not empty then answer it else set the httpHeaders to line 1 of tForm post line 2 to -1 of tForm to url tUrl put it into tResults -- the actual returned data from the server script set the httpHeaders to empty end if put tResults -- put the returned data into the msg box On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 3:35 PM, Roger Eller wrote: > In the multiLine messageBox, I have this script: > --------------------- > put empty into tForm > put "http://myServer/post_this.lc" into tUrl > put "dave" into tName put "hello" into tMessage > if libURLMultipartFormData (tForm, "name", tName, "message", tMessage) is > not empty then > answer it ##error > else > set the httpHeaders to line 1 of tForm > post line 2 to -1 of tForm to url tUrl > ## check the result, etc., here > set the httpHeaders to empty > end if > --------------------- > > In a "post_this.lc" file in the www root, I have this: > I THINK THIS IS WHAT I DON'T FULLY UNDERSTAND. Nothing is returned > when I execute the script in the messageBox. > > --------------------- > put receiveThis($_POST["name"],$_POST["tName"]) into tUser > put receiveThis($_POST["message"],$_POST["tMessage"]) into tMessage > ?> > > function receiveThis tUser,tMessage > return tUser && tMessage > end whoistUser > ?> > --------------------- > > ~Roger > > > > On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 1:14 PM, Mike Bonner wrote: > > > put "name1=value1&name2=value2&name3=value3" into tPost > > post tPost to URL > > > > Its also handy to use liburlformdata to build your post string > > also liburlmultipartformdata and liburlmultipartformaddpart > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Fri Aug 7 22:56:34 2015 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2015 22:56:34 -0400 Subject: LiveCode Server latency causing empty results In-Reply-To: References: <55C3A620.8020006@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Mike, Thank you. Your loop through the array makes perfect sense to me. On Aug 7, 2015 6:21 PM, "Mike Bonner" wrote: > A couple things, probably just typos but.. > > Your function begin and end names don't match. > You have 2 put lines on the same line, which won't work. (type on this one > i'm sure) > When you are getting stuff back out of the $_POST variable, "name" and > "message" are the array keys. not "tName" or "tMessage" > To simplify (since this is a very simple example) you could do this on the > server side: > repeat for each key tKey in $_POST > put tKey & ":" && $_POST[tKey] & cr -- puts out the key and value > end repeat > ?> > > > For the client script (testing) this is what I ended up with. > > put empty into tForm > put "http://myserver/testing.lc" into tUrl > put "dave" into tName > put "hello" into tMessage > if libURLMultipartFormData (tForm, "name", tName, "message", tMessage) is > not empty then > answer it > else > set the httpHeaders to line 1 of tForm > post line 2 to -1 of tForm to url tUrl > put it into tResults -- the actual returned data from the server script > set the httpHeaders to empty > end if > put tResults -- put the returned data into the msg box > > > On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 3:35 PM, Roger Eller > wrote: > > > In the multiLine messageBox, I have this script: > > --------------------- > > put empty into tForm > > put "http://myServer/post_this.lc" into tUrl > > put "dave" into tName put "hello" into tMessage > > if libURLMultipartFormData (tForm, "name", tName, "message", tMessage) is > > not empty then > > answer it ##error > > else > > set the httpHeaders to line 1 of tForm > > post line 2 to -1 of tForm to url tUrl > > ## check the result, etc., here > > set the httpHeaders to empty > > end if > > --------------------- > > > > In a "post_this.lc" file in the www root, I have this: > > I THINK THIS IS WHAT I DON'T FULLY UNDERSTAND. Nothing is > returned > > when I execute the script in the messageBox. > > > > --------------------- > > > put receiveThis($_POST["name"],$_POST["tName"]) into tUser > > put receiveThis($_POST["message"],$_POST["tMessage"]) into tMessage > > ?> > > > > > function receiveThis tUser,tMessage > > return tUser && tMessage > > end whoistUser > > ?> > > --------------------- > > > > ~Roger > > > > > > > > On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 1:14 PM, Mike Bonner wrote: > > > > > put "name1=value1&name2=value2&name3=value3" into tPost > > > post tPost to URL > > > > > > Its also handy to use liburlformdata to build your post string > > > also liburlmultipartformdata and liburlmultipartformaddpart > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sat Aug 8 07:16:53 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2015 14:16:53 +0300 Subject: Digging around Message-ID: <55C5E525.2040504@gmail.com> Recently my younger son liberated my "Revolution 1.1.1" User Guide from the attic of our house in Scotland when he was up there. I would be extremely grateful if anyone could point me to a digital version of that. Richmond. From selander at tkf.att.ne.jp Sat Aug 8 07:39:57 2015 From: selander at tkf.att.ne.jp (Tim Selander) Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2015 20:39:57 +0900 Subject: Write variable to a file on a server? Message-ID: <55C5EA8D.5050301@tkf.att.ne.jp> Hi, Messing with a LC script in a web page, writing a variable to a text file on my on-rev server account. The dictionary says the postmyData toURL"http://www.example.net/indications.cgi" should work, but it doesn't. I get an 404 error. I am trying to save a variable's text contents by using post myData to URL "http://www.mydomain.info/data.txt" Can anyone tell me the proper way? Thanks, Tim Selander Tokyo, Japan From david at viral.academy Sat Aug 8 08:23:38 2015 From: david at viral.academy (David Bovill) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2015 13:23:38 +0100 Subject: Extracting a reference to a stack Message-ID: Given the long id of a control - how do I extract the reference to the stack ti belongs to? I have a function that i have used since the dawn of time for this - but I recall seeing a new chunk / target / reference feature of Livecode in the last year that makes this easier. Did I imagine it? From bonnmike at gmail.com Sat Aug 8 09:05:41 2015 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2015 07:05:41 -0600 Subject: Write variable to a file on a server? In-Reply-To: <55C5EA8D.5050301@tkf.att.ne.jp> References: <55C5EA8D.5050301@tkf.att.ne.jp> Message-ID: You need to set up a script to catch the data, and you need to send the data using a key=data type format. So for example if you're sending a book chapter to your server, and the text of the chapter is in variable tChapter post ("chapter1=" & urlencode(tChapter)) to URL " http://myUrl.com/myscript.lc" put it -- will put whatever is returned into the msg box For the script itself, since we know the key name.. Obviously this is a very simple example that wouldn't be very useful, but hopefully it will give you the idea. The chapter1.txt file will be created right next to your script (since i didn't tell it elsewhere) so to look at the file you would go to http://myUrl.com/chapter1.txt On Sat, Aug 8, 2015 at 5:39 AM, Tim Selander wrote: > Hi, > > Messing with a LC script in a web page, writing a variable to a text file > on my on-rev server account. > > The dictionary says the postmyData toURL" > http://www.example.net/indications.cgi" should work, but it doesn't. I > get an 404 error. > > I am trying to save a variable's text contents by using > post myData to URL "http://www.mydomain.info/data.txt" > > Can anyone tell me the proper way? > > Thanks, > > Tim Selander > Tokyo, Japan > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From dunbarx at aol.com Sat Aug 8 09:44:59 2015 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx at aol.com) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2015 09:44:59 -0400 Subject: Extracting a reference to a stack In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <14f0d8eb32d-7312-43e7e@webprd-a59.mail.aol.com> Interesting. I wonder if there is a property that gives this directly. But I suppose you can always find the owner of the control, and if that is a group (or a series of groups, continue until you find an owner with the word "stack" in it. Craig Newman -----Original Message----- From: David Bovill To: How to use LiveCode Sent: Sat, Aug 8, 2015 8:24 am Subject: Extracting a reference to a stack Given the long id of a control - how do I extract the reference to the stack ti belongs to? I have a function that i have used since the dawn of time for this - but I recall seeing a new chunk / target / reference feature of Livecode in the last year that makes this easier. Did I imagine it? _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dunbarx at aol.com Sat Aug 8 09:46:19 2015 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx at aol.com) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2015 09:46:19 -0400 Subject: Extracting a reference to a stack In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <14f0d8feb5f-7312-43e84@webprd-a59.mail.aol.com> Wait just a doggone minute. The long id of a control contains the stack reference. Craig -----Original Message----- From: David Bovill To: How to use LiveCode Sent: Sat, Aug 8, 2015 8:24 am Subject: Extracting a reference to a stack Given the long id of a control - how do I extract the reference to the stack ti belongs to? I have a function that i have used since the dawn of time for this - but I recall seeing a new chunk / target / reference feature of Livecode in the last year that makes this easier. Did I imagine it? _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From selander at tkf.att.ne.jp Sat Aug 8 09:51:36 2015 From: selander at tkf.att.ne.jp (Tim Selander) Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2015 22:51:36 +0900 Subject: Write variable to a file on a server? In-Reply-To: References: <55C5EA8D.5050301@tkf.att.ne.jp> Message-ID: <55C60968.4000405@tkf.att.ne.jp> Hi Mike, Worked great!! Thank you very much. Exactly what I'm trying to do. Tim On 15/08/08 22:05, Mike Bonner wrote: > You need to set up a script to catch the data, and you need to send the > data using a key=data type format. > > So for example if you're sending a book chapter to your server, and the > text of the chapter is in variable tChapter > > post ("chapter1=" & urlencode(tChapter)) to URL " > http://myUrl.com/myscript.lc" > put it -- will put whatever is returned into the msg box > > > For the script itself, since we know the key name.. > > if $_POST["chapter1"] is not empty then -- post is a special variable where > posted data is held > put $_POST["chapter1"] into URL "file:chapter1.txt" -- put the data into a > file > put "chapter saved" -- send a message back that the chapter was saved > else > put "no chapter sent" -- send an error message back > end if > ?> > > Obviously this is a very simple example that wouldn't be very useful, but > hopefully it will give you the idea. > > The chapter1.txt file will be created right next to your script (since i > didn't tell it elsewhere) so to look at the file you would go to > http://myUrl.com/chapter1.txt > > On Sat, Aug 8, 2015 at 5:39 AM, Tim Selander wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> Messing with a LC script in a web page, writing a variable to a text file >> on my on-rev server account. >> >> The dictionary says the postmyData toURL" >> http://www.example.net/indications.cgi" should work, but it doesn't. I >> get an 404 error. >> >> I am trying to save a variable's text contents by using >> post myData to URL "http://www.mydomain.info/data.txt" >> >> Can anyone tell me the proper way? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Tim Selander >> Tokyo, Japan >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From pmbrig at gmail.com Sat Aug 8 10:16:03 2015 From: pmbrig at gmail.com (Peter M. Brigham) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2015 10:16:03 -0400 Subject: Extracting a reference to a stack In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5E34E6BD-76AF-407B-BAD9-2C3C2E27ED67@gmail.com> Here's a quick solution: function ownerStack pObjLongID replace " of " with numtochar(8) in pObjLongID set the itemdel to numtochar(8) return item -1 of pObjLongID end ownerStack A more general solution is what I use in my library. The getItem() function is so useful that I use it *everywhere*. function ownerStack pObjLongID -- returns the name of the stack containing pObjLongID -- by Peter M. Brigham, pmbrig at gmail.com ? freeware -- requires getItem(), getDelimiters() put getItem(pObjLongID,-1," of ") into tStack put the name of tStack into stackName return stackName end ownerStack function getItem pContainer, pIndex, pDelim -- returns item # pIndex of pContainer, given itemdelimiter = pDelim -- could just "get item pIndex of pContainer" in the calling handler but -- then have to set and restore the itemDelimiter, so this is less hassle -- for instance, the following returns the filename from the filepath: -- put getItem(tPath,-1,"/") into tFileName -- defaults to pDelim = tab -- allows pIndex to be a range, eg "3-5" -- in that case enclose the range in quotes -- also allows pDelim to be a string of characters -- so you could do this: -- getItem("a//b//c//d//e//f",4,"//") -> d -- or: -- getItem("a or b or c or d or e or f","3-5"," or ") -> c or d or e -- which expands the possibilities for use enormously -- by Peter M. Brigham, pmbrig at gmail.com ? freeware -- requires getDelimiters() -- first, if pDelim is a string then get a delimiter that is not found -- in pContainer and use it in place of pDelim if pDelim = empty then put tab into pDelim if len(pDelim) > 1 then put getDelimiters(pContainer) into tempDel if tempDel begins with "Error" then return "Error in getDelimiters()" end if replace pDelim with tempDel in pContainer else put pDelim into tempDel end if -- now parse pIndex to take care of ranges and negative values -- and get the item(s) requested put offset("-",pIndex) into dashPos set the itemdelimiter to tempDel if dashPos > 1 then -- don't catch if pIndex is something like -1, -2, etc put char 1 to dashPos-1 of pIndex into tStart put char dashPos+1 to -1 of pIndex into tEnd put item tStart to tEnd of pContainer into theItem replace tempDel with pDelim in theItem else put item pIndex of pContainer into theItem end if return theItem end getItem function getDelimiters pText, nbr -- returns a cr-delimited list of characters -- not found in the variable pText -- use for delimiters for, eg, parsing text files, manipulating arrays, etc. -- usage: put getDelimiters(pText,2) into tDelims -- if tDelims begins with "Error" then exit to top -- or whatever -- put line 1 of tDelims into lineDivider -- put line 2 of tDelims into itemDivider -- etc. -- by Peter M. Brigham, pmbrig at gmail.com ? freeware if pText = empty then return "Error: no text specified." if nbr = empty then put 1 into nbr -- default 1 delimiter put "2,3,4,5,6,7,8,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26" into baseList -- low ASCII values, excluding CR, LF, tab, etc. put the number of items of baseList into maxNbr if nbr > maxNbr then return "Error: max" && maxNbr && "delimiters." repeat with tCount = 1 to nbr put true into failed repeat with i = 1 to the number of items of baseList put item i of baseList into testNbr put numtochar(testNbr) into testChar if testChar is not in pText then -- found one, store and get next delim put false into failed put testChar into line tCount of delimList exit repeat end if end repeat if failed then if tCount = 0 then return "Error: cannot get any delimiters." else if tCount = 1 then return "Error: can only get one delimiter." else return "Error: can only get" && tCount && "delimiters." end if end if delete item i of baseList end repeat return delimList end getDelimiters On Aug 8, 2015, at 8:23 AM, David Bovill wrote: > Given the long id of a control - how do I extract the reference to the > stack ti belongs to? I have a function that i have used since the dawn of > time for this - but I recall seeing a new chunk / target / reference > feature of Livecode in the last year that makes this easier. Did I imagine > it? > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From david at viral.academy Sat Aug 8 10:45:24 2015 From: david at viral.academy (David Bovill) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2015 15:45:24 +0100 Subject: Extracting a reference to a stack In-Reply-To: <5E34E6BD-76AF-407B-BAD9-2C3C2E27ED67@gmail.com> References: <5E34E6BD-76AF-407B-BAD9-2C3C2E27ED67@gmail.com> Message-ID: There was a recent feature added to the language that would help - maybe it was something to do with the owner.... I have a similarly convoluted function and getprop - one of the issues is that if you want the long name of the stack the control is part of - this could be a mainstack or a substack - so to get "the stack on which the control is placed" has always been a bit of a pain... On 8 August 2015 at 15:16, Peter M. Brigham wrote: > Here's a quick solution: > > function ownerStack pObjLongID > replace " of " with numtochar(8) in pObjLongID > set the itemdel to numtochar(8) > return item -1 of pObjLongID > end ownerStack > > A more general solution is what I use in my library. The getItem() > function is so useful that I use it *everywhere*. > > function ownerStack pObjLongID > -- returns the name of the stack containing pObjLongID > -- by Peter M. Brigham, pmbrig at gmail.com ? freeware > -- requires getItem(), getDelimiters() > > put getItem(pObjLongID,-1," of ") into tStack > put the name of tStack into stackName > return stackName > end ownerStack > > function getItem pContainer, pIndex, pDelim > -- returns item # pIndex of pContainer, given itemdelimiter = pDelim > -- could just "get item pIndex of pContainer" in the calling handler but > -- then have to set and restore the itemDelimiter, so this is less > hassle > -- for instance, the following returns the filename from the filepath: > -- put getItem(tPath,-1,"/") into tFileName > -- defaults to pDelim = tab > -- allows pIndex to be a range, eg "3-5" > -- in that case enclose the range in quotes > -- also allows pDelim to be a string of characters > -- so you could do this: > -- getItem("a//b//c//d//e//f",4,"//") -> d > -- or: > -- getItem("a or b or c or d or e or f","3-5"," or ") -> c or d > or e > -- which expands the possibilities for use enormously > -- by Peter M. Brigham, pmbrig at gmail.com ? freeware > -- requires getDelimiters() > > -- first, if pDelim is a string then get a delimiter that is not found > -- in pContainer and use it in place of pDelim > if pDelim = empty then put tab into pDelim > if len(pDelim) > 1 then > put getDelimiters(pContainer) into tempDel > if tempDel begins with "Error" then > return "Error in getDelimiters()" > end if > replace pDelim with tempDel in pContainer > else > put pDelim into tempDel > end if > > -- now parse pIndex to take care of ranges and negative values > -- and get the item(s) requested > put offset("-",pIndex) into dashPos > set the itemdelimiter to tempDel > if dashPos > 1 then > -- don't catch if pIndex is something like -1, -2, etc > put char 1 to dashPos-1 of pIndex into tStart > put char dashPos+1 to -1 of pIndex into tEnd > put item tStart to tEnd of pContainer into theItem > replace tempDel with pDelim in theItem > else > put item pIndex of pContainer into theItem > end if > return theItem > end getItem > > function getDelimiters pText, nbr > -- returns a cr-delimited list of characters > -- not found in the variable pText > -- use for delimiters for, eg, parsing text files, manipulating arrays, > etc. > -- usage: put getDelimiters(pText,2) into tDelims > -- if tDelims begins with "Error" then exit to top -- or whatever > -- put line 1 of tDelims into lineDivider > -- put line 2 of tDelims into itemDivider > -- etc. > -- by Peter M. Brigham, pmbrig at gmail.com ? freeware > > if pText = empty then return "Error: no text specified." > if nbr = empty then put 1 into nbr -- default 1 delimiter > put "2,3,4,5,6,7,8,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26" into baseList > -- low ASCII values, excluding CR, LF, tab, etc. > put the number of items of baseList into maxNbr > if nbr > maxNbr then return "Error: max" && maxNbr && "delimiters." > repeat with tCount = 1 to nbr > put true into failed > repeat with i = 1 to the number of items of baseList > put item i of baseList into testNbr > put numtochar(testNbr) into testChar > if testChar is not in pText then > -- found one, store and get next delim > put false into failed > put testChar into line tCount of delimList > exit repeat > end if > end repeat > if failed then > if tCount = 0 then > return "Error: cannot get any delimiters." > else if tCount = 1 then > return "Error: can only get one delimiter." > else > return "Error: can only get" && tCount && "delimiters." > end if > end if > delete item i of baseList > end repeat > return delimList > end getDelimiters > > > On Aug 8, 2015, at 8:23 AM, David Bovill wrote: > > > Given the long id of a control - how do I extract the reference to the > > stack ti belongs to? I have a function that i have used since the dawn of > > time for this - but I recall seeing a new chunk / target / reference > > feature of Livecode in the last year that makes this easier. Did I > imagine > > it? > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sat Aug 8 12:42:51 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2015 19:42:51 +0300 Subject: Jane Austen's peculiarity Message-ID: <55C6318B.706@gmail.com> Jane Austen [amongst others] uses an interesting type of grammatical construction of this sort: After breakfast, the girls walked to Meryton to inquire if Mr. Wickham _were returned_, and to lament over his absence from the Netherfield ball. Pride and Prejudice. I would like to analyse a million word corpus that I have been granted access to for this type of construction. However, I don't want to find examples of only 'were returned', but all examples of were + infinitive / preterite / past participle and, presumably for that I shall have to use wildcards . . . OR ??? Richmond. From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sat Aug 8 13:14:34 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2015 10:14:34 -0700 Subject: Extracting a reference to a stack In-Reply-To: References: <5E34E6BD-76AF-407B-BAD9-2C3C2E27ED67@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55C638FA.6040604@ahsoftware.net> On 08/08/2015 07:45 AM, David Bovill wrote: > There was a recent feature added to the language that would help - maybe it > was something to do with the owner.... I LC7 you can now set whole words as delimiters. So (off the top of my head) set the itemDelimiter to "stack" get item -1 of the long id of control But note that this will return the mainstack. If substacks enter into the picture it gets more complicated. get item 1 of the long id of control might do the job. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From pmbrig at gmail.com Sat Aug 8 13:31:22 2015 From: pmbrig at gmail.com (Peter M. Brigham) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2015 13:31:22 -0400 Subject: Extracting a reference to a stack In-Reply-To: References: <5E34E6BD-76AF-407B-BAD9-2C3C2E27ED67@gmail.com> Message-ID: <807A76BE-8A84-4739-B623-B42AC03C769B@gmail.com> OK, Here's a revision: function ownerStack pObjLongID -- returns the name of the stack immediately containing pObjLongID -- by Peter M. Brigham, pmbrig at gmail.com ? freeware -- tags: control -- requires getprop robustName replace " of " with cr in pObjLongID put lineoffset(cr & "stack ",cr & pObjLongID) into stLine put line stLine to -1 of pObjLongID into stName replace cr with " of " in stName return stName end ownerStack -- Peter Peter M. Brigham pmbrig at gmail.com http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig On Aug 8, 2015, at 10:45 AM, David Bovill wrote: > There was a recent feature added to the language that would help - maybe it > was something to do with the owner.... > > I have a similarly convoluted function and getprop - one of the issues is > that if you want the long name of the stack the control is part of - this > could be a mainstack or a substack - so to get "the stack on which the > control is placed" has always been a bit of a pain... > > On 8 August 2015 at 15:16, Peter M. Brigham wrote: > >> Here's a quick solution: >> >> function ownerStack pObjLongID >> replace " of " with numtochar(8) in pObjLongID >> set the itemdel to numtochar(8) >> return item -1 of pObjLongID >> end ownerStack >> >> A more general solution is what I use in my library. The getItem() >> function is so useful that I use it *everywhere*. >> >> function ownerStack pObjLongID >> -- returns the name of the stack containing pObjLongID >> -- by Peter M. Brigham, pmbrig at gmail.com ? freeware >> -- requires getItem(), getDelimiters() >> >> put getItem(pObjLongID,-1," of ") into tStack >> put the name of tStack into stackName >> return stackName >> end ownerStack >> >> function getItem pContainer, pIndex, pDelim >> -- returns item # pIndex of pContainer, given itemdelimiter = pDelim >> -- could just "get item pIndex of pContainer" in the calling handler but >> -- then have to set and restore the itemDelimiter, so this is less >> hassle >> -- for instance, the following returns the filename from the filepath: >> -- put getItem(tPath,-1,"/") into tFileName >> -- defaults to pDelim = tab >> -- allows pIndex to be a range, eg "3-5" >> -- in that case enclose the range in quotes >> -- also allows pDelim to be a string of characters >> -- so you could do this: >> -- getItem("a//b//c//d//e//f",4,"//") -> d >> -- or: >> -- getItem("a or b or c or d or e or f","3-5"," or ") -> c or d >> or e >> -- which expands the possibilities for use enormously >> -- by Peter M. Brigham, pmbrig at gmail.com ? freeware >> -- requires getDelimiters() >> >> -- first, if pDelim is a string then get a delimiter that is not found >> -- in pContainer and use it in place of pDelim >> if pDelim = empty then put tab into pDelim >> if len(pDelim) > 1 then >> put getDelimiters(pContainer) into tempDel >> if tempDel begins with "Error" then >> return "Error in getDelimiters()" >> end if >> replace pDelim with tempDel in pContainer >> else >> put pDelim into tempDel >> end if >> >> -- now parse pIndex to take care of ranges and negative values >> -- and get the item(s) requested >> put offset("-",pIndex) into dashPos >> set the itemdelimiter to tempDel >> if dashPos > 1 then >> -- don't catch if pIndex is something like -1, -2, etc >> put char 1 to dashPos-1 of pIndex into tStart >> put char dashPos+1 to -1 of pIndex into tEnd >> put item tStart to tEnd of pContainer into theItem >> replace tempDel with pDelim in theItem >> else >> put item pIndex of pContainer into theItem >> end if >> return theItem >> end getItem >> >> function getDelimiters pText, nbr >> -- returns a cr-delimited list of characters >> -- not found in the variable pText >> -- use for delimiters for, eg, parsing text files, manipulating arrays, >> etc. >> -- usage: put getDelimiters(pText,2) into tDelims >> -- if tDelims begins with "Error" then exit to top -- or whatever >> -- put line 1 of tDelims into lineDivider >> -- put line 2 of tDelims into itemDivider >> -- etc. >> -- by Peter M. Brigham, pmbrig at gmail.com ? freeware >> >> if pText = empty then return "Error: no text specified." >> if nbr = empty then put 1 into nbr -- default 1 delimiter >> put "2,3,4,5,6,7,8,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26" into baseList >> -- low ASCII values, excluding CR, LF, tab, etc. >> put the number of items of baseList into maxNbr >> if nbr > maxNbr then return "Error: max" && maxNbr && "delimiters." >> repeat with tCount = 1 to nbr >> put true into failed >> repeat with i = 1 to the number of items of baseList >> put item i of baseList into testNbr >> put numtochar(testNbr) into testChar >> if testChar is not in pText then >> -- found one, store and get next delim >> put false into failed >> put testChar into line tCount of delimList >> exit repeat >> end if >> end repeat >> if failed then >> if tCount = 0 then >> return "Error: cannot get any delimiters." >> else if tCount = 1 then >> return "Error: can only get one delimiter." >> else >> return "Error: can only get" && tCount && "delimiters." >> end if >> end if >> delete item i of baseList >> end repeat >> return delimList >> end getDelimiters >> >> >> On Aug 8, 2015, at 8:23 AM, David Bovill wrote: >> >>> Given the long id of a control - how do I extract the reference to the >>> stack ti belongs to? I have a function that i have used since the dawn of >>> time for this - but I recall seeing a new chunk / target / reference >>> feature of Livecode in the last year that makes this easier. Did I >> imagine >>> it? >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From pete at lcsql.com Sat Aug 8 13:45:56 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2015 17:45:56 +0000 Subject: Extracting a reference to a stack In-Reply-To: <807A76BE-8A84-4739-B623-B42AC03C769B@gmail.com> References: <5E34E6BD-76AF-407B-BAD9-2C3C2E27ED67@gmail.com> <807A76BE-8A84-4739-B623-B42AC03C769B@gmail.com> Message-ID: I do it like this function stackOfObject pobject local tObject put pobject into tObject repeat if word 1 of tObject is "stack" then return tObject end if On Sat, Aug 8, 2015 at 10:31 AM Peter M. Brigham wrote: > OK, Here's a revision: > > function ownerStack pObjLongID > -- returns the name of the stack immediately containing pObjLongID > -- by Peter M. Brigham, pmbrig at gmail.com ? freeware > -- tags: control > -- requires getprop robustName > > replace " of " with cr in pObjLongID > put lineoffset(cr & "stack ",cr & pObjLongID) into stLine > put line stLine to -1 of pObjLongID into stName > replace cr with " of " in stName > return stName > end ownerStack > > -- Peter > > Peter M. Brigham > pmbrig at gmail.com > http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig > > > On Aug 8, 2015, at 10:45 AM, David Bovill wrote: > > > There was a recent feature added to the language that would help - maybe > it > > was something to do with the owner.... > > > > I have a similarly convoluted function and getprop - one of the issues is > > that if you want the long name of the stack the control is part of - this > > could be a mainstack or a substack - so to get "the stack on which the > > control is placed" has always been a bit of a pain... > > > > On 8 August 2015 at 15:16, Peter M. Brigham wrote: > > > >> Here's a quick solution: > >> > >> function ownerStack pObjLongID > >> replace " of " with numtochar(8) in pObjLongID > >> set the itemdel to numtochar(8) > >> return item -1 of pObjLongID > >> end ownerStack > >> > >> A more general solution is what I use in my library. The getItem() > >> function is so useful that I use it *everywhere*. > >> > >> function ownerStack pObjLongID > >> -- returns the name of the stack containing pObjLongID > >> -- by Peter M. Brigham, pmbrig at gmail.com ? freeware > >> -- requires getItem(), getDelimiters() > >> > >> put getItem(pObjLongID,-1," of ") into tStack > >> put the name of tStack into stackName > >> return stackName > >> end ownerStack > >> > >> function getItem pContainer, pIndex, pDelim > >> -- returns item # pIndex of pContainer, given itemdelimiter = pDelim > >> -- could just "get item pIndex of pContainer" in the calling handler > but > >> -- then have to set and restore the itemDelimiter, so this is less > >> hassle > >> -- for instance, the following returns the filename from the filepath: > >> -- put getItem(tPath,-1,"/") into tFileName > >> -- defaults to pDelim = tab > >> -- allows pIndex to be a range, eg "3-5" > >> -- in that case enclose the range in quotes > >> -- also allows pDelim to be a string of characters > >> -- so you could do this: > >> -- getItem("a//b//c//d//e//f",4,"//") -> d > >> -- or: > >> -- getItem("a or b or c or d or e or f","3-5"," or ") -> c or d > >> or e > >> -- which expands the possibilities for use enormously > >> -- by Peter M. Brigham, pmbrig at gmail.com ? freeware > >> -- requires getDelimiters() > >> > >> -- first, if pDelim is a string then get a delimiter that is not found > >> -- in pContainer and use it in place of pDelim > >> if pDelim = empty then put tab into pDelim > >> if len(pDelim) > 1 then > >> put getDelimiters(pContainer) into tempDel > >> if tempDel begins with "Error" then > >> return "Error in getDelimiters()" > >> end if > >> replace pDelim with tempDel in pContainer > >> else > >> put pDelim into tempDel > >> end if > >> > >> -- now parse pIndex to take care of ranges and negative values > >> -- and get the item(s) requested > >> put offset("-",pIndex) into dashPos > >> set the itemdelimiter to tempDel > >> if dashPos > 1 then > >> -- don't catch if pIndex is something like -1, -2, etc > >> put char 1 to dashPos-1 of pIndex into tStart > >> put char dashPos+1 to -1 of pIndex into tEnd > >> put item tStart to tEnd of pContainer into theItem > >> replace tempDel with pDelim in theItem > >> else > >> put item pIndex of pContainer into theItem > >> end if > >> return theItem > >> end getItem > >> > >> function getDelimiters pText, nbr > >> -- returns a cr-delimited list of characters > >> -- not found in the variable pText > >> -- use for delimiters for, eg, parsing text files, manipulating > arrays, > >> etc. > >> -- usage: put getDelimiters(pText,2) into tDelims > >> -- if tDelims begins with "Error" then exit to top -- or > whatever > >> -- put line 1 of tDelims into lineDivider > >> -- put line 2 of tDelims into itemDivider > >> -- etc. > >> -- by Peter M. Brigham, pmbrig at gmail.com ? freeware > >> > >> if pText = empty then return "Error: no text specified." > >> if nbr = empty then put 1 into nbr -- default 1 delimiter > >> put "2,3,4,5,6,7,8,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26" into baseList > >> -- low ASCII values, excluding CR, LF, tab, etc. > >> put the number of items of baseList into maxNbr > >> if nbr > maxNbr then return "Error: max" && maxNbr && "delimiters." > >> repeat with tCount = 1 to nbr > >> put true into failed > >> repeat with i = 1 to the number of items of baseList > >> put item i of baseList into testNbr > >> put numtochar(testNbr) into testChar > >> if testChar is not in pText then > >> -- found one, store and get next delim > >> put false into failed > >> put testChar into line tCount of delimList > >> exit repeat > >> end if > >> end repeat > >> if failed then > >> if tCount = 0 then > >> return "Error: cannot get any delimiters." > >> else if tCount = 1 then > >> return "Error: can only get one delimiter." > >> else > >> return "Error: can only get" && tCount && "delimiters." > >> end if > >> end if > >> delete item i of baseList > >> end repeat > >> return delimList > >> end getDelimiters > >> > >> > >> On Aug 8, 2015, at 8:23 AM, David Bovill wrote: > >> > >>> Given the long id of a control - how do I extract the reference to the > >>> stack ti belongs to? I have a function that i have used since the dawn > of > >>> time for this - but I recall seeing a new chunk / target / reference > >>> feature of Livecode in the last year that makes this easier. Did I > >> imagine > >>> it? > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> use-livecode mailing list > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From pmbrig at gmail.com Sat Aug 8 13:48:39 2015 From: pmbrig at gmail.com (Peter M. Brigham) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2015 13:48:39 -0400 Subject: Jane Austen's peculiarity In-Reply-To: <55C6318B.706@gmail.com> References: <55C6318B.706@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Aug 8, 2015, at 12:42 PM, Richmond wrote: > Jane Austen [amongst others] uses an interesting type of grammatical construction of this sort: > > After breakfast, the girls walked to Meryton to inquire if Mr. Wickham > _were returned_, and to lament over his absence from the Netherfield ball. > > Pride and Prejudice. > > I would like to analyse a million word corpus that I have been granted access to for this type of construction. > > However, I don't want to find examples of only 'were returned', but all examples of > > were + infinitive / preterite / past participle > > and, presumably for that I shall have to use wildcards . . . > > OR ??? I'll leave it to those who speak Regex to suggest a wildcard solution. Here's another one (not tested) that will catch past participles ending in "ed". Not sure how this will scale with large texts: function findWere pText -- returns a comma-delim list of all the word offsets matching "were *ed" put wordOffsets("were", pText, true) into offList repeat for each item w in offList put word w+1 of pText into testWord if testWord ends with "ed" then put w & comma after outList end repeat return item 1 to -1 of outList end if function wordOffsets str, pContainer, matchWhole -- returns a comma-delimited list of all the wordOffsets of str in pContainer -- if matchWhole = true then only whole words are located -- else will find word matches everywhere str is part of a word in pContainer -- note that in LC words will include adjacent puncutation, -- so using matchWhole = true may exclude too many "words" -- duplicates are stripped out -- eg wordOffsets("co","the common coconut") = 2,3 not 2,3,3 -- note: to get the last wordOffset of a string in a container (often useful) -- use "item -1 of wordOffsets(...)" -- by Peter M. Brigham, pmbrig at gmail.com ? freeware -- requires offsets() if matchWhole = empty then put false into matchWhole put offsets(str,pContainer) into offList if offList = 0 then return 0 repeat for each item i in offList put the number of words of (char 1 to i of pContainer) into wdNbr if matchWhole then if word wdNbr of pContainer <> str then next repeat end if put 1 into A[wdNbr] -- using an array avoids duplicates end repeat put the keys of A into wordList sort lines of wordList ascending numeric replace cr with comma in wordList return wordList end wordOffsets function offsets str, pContainer -- returns a comma-delimited list of all the offsets of str in pContainer -- returns 0 if not found -- note: offsets("xx","xxxxxx") returns "1,3,5" not "1,2,3,4,5" -- ie, overlapping offsets are not counted -- note: to get the last occurrence of a string in a container (often useful) -- use "item -1 of offsets(...)" -- by Peter M. Brigham, pmbrig at gmail.com ? freeware if str is not in pContainer then return 0 put 0 into startPoint repeat put offset(str,pContainer,startPoint) into thisOffset if thisOffset = 0 then exit repeat add thisOffset to startPoint put startPoint & comma after offsetList add length(str)-1 to startPoint end repeat return item 1 to -1 of offsetList -- delete trailing comma end offsets P.S. I love Jane Austen. One of my favorite books of all time is "Pride and Prejudice." It's so beautifully constructed. -- Peter Peter M. Brigham pmbrig at gmail.com http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig From pete at lcsql.com Sat Aug 8 13:51:54 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2015 17:51:54 +0000 Subject: Extracting a reference to a stack In-Reply-To: References: <5E34E6BD-76AF-407B-BAD9-2C3C2E27ED67@gmail.com> <807A76BE-8A84-4739-B623-B42AC03C769B@gmail.com> Message-ID: Whoops, hit send too soon, should be: function stackOfObject pobject repeat if word 1 of pobject is "stack" then return pobject else put the long owner of pobject into pobject end repeat end stackOfObject On Sat, Aug 8, 2015 at 10:45 AM Peter Haworth wrote: > I do it like this > > function stackOfObject pobject > > local tObject > > put pobject into tObject > repeat > if word 1 of tObject is "stack" then > return tObject > end if > > On Sat, Aug 8, 2015 at 10:31 AM Peter M. Brigham wrote: > >> OK, Here's a revision: >> >> function ownerStack pObjLongID >> -- returns the name of the stack immediately containing pObjLongID >> -- by Peter M. Brigham, pmbrig at gmail.com ? freeware >> -- tags: control >> -- requires getprop robustName >> >> replace " of " with cr in pObjLongID >> put lineoffset(cr & "stack ",cr & pObjLongID) into stLine >> put line stLine to -1 of pObjLongID into stName >> replace cr with " of " in stName >> return stName >> end ownerStack >> >> -- Peter >> >> Peter M. Brigham >> pmbrig at gmail.com >> http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig >> >> >> On Aug 8, 2015, at 10:45 AM, David Bovill wrote: >> >> > There was a recent feature added to the language that would help - >> maybe it >> > was something to do with the owner.... >> > >> > I have a similarly convoluted function and getprop - one of the issues >> is >> > that if you want the long name of the stack the control is part of - >> this >> > could be a mainstack or a substack - so to get "the stack on which the >> > control is placed" has always been a bit of a pain... >> > >> > On 8 August 2015 at 15:16, Peter M. Brigham wrote: >> > >> >> Here's a quick solution: >> >> >> >> function ownerStack pObjLongID >> >> replace " of " with numtochar(8) in pObjLongID >> >> set the itemdel to numtochar(8) >> >> return item -1 of pObjLongID >> >> end ownerStack >> >> >> >> A more general solution is what I use in my library. The getItem() >> >> function is so useful that I use it *everywhere*. >> >> >> >> function ownerStack pObjLongID >> >> -- returns the name of the stack containing pObjLongID >> >> -- by Peter M. Brigham, pmbrig at gmail.com ? freeware >> >> -- requires getItem(), getDelimiters() >> >> >> >> put getItem(pObjLongID,-1," of ") into tStack >> >> put the name of tStack into stackName >> >> return stackName >> >> end ownerStack >> >> >> >> function getItem pContainer, pIndex, pDelim >> >> -- returns item # pIndex of pContainer, given itemdelimiter = pDelim >> >> -- could just "get item pIndex of pContainer" in the calling handler >> but >> >> -- then have to set and restore the itemDelimiter, so this is less >> >> hassle >> >> -- for instance, the following returns the filename from the >> filepath: >> >> -- put getItem(tPath,-1,"/") into tFileName >> >> -- defaults to pDelim = tab >> >> -- allows pIndex to be a range, eg "3-5" >> >> -- in that case enclose the range in quotes >> >> -- also allows pDelim to be a string of characters >> >> -- so you could do this: >> >> -- getItem("a//b//c//d//e//f",4,"//") -> d >> >> -- or: >> >> -- getItem("a or b or c or d or e or f","3-5"," or ") -> c or d >> >> or e >> >> -- which expands the possibilities for use enormously >> >> -- by Peter M. Brigham, pmbrig at gmail.com ? freeware >> >> -- requires getDelimiters() >> >> >> >> -- first, if pDelim is a string then get a delimiter that is not >> found >> >> -- in pContainer and use it in place of pDelim >> >> if pDelim = empty then put tab into pDelim >> >> if len(pDelim) > 1 then >> >> put getDelimiters(pContainer) into tempDel >> >> if tempDel begins with "Error" then >> >> return "Error in getDelimiters()" >> >> end if >> >> replace pDelim with tempDel in pContainer >> >> else >> >> put pDelim into tempDel >> >> end if >> >> >> >> -- now parse pIndex to take care of ranges and negative values >> >> -- and get the item(s) requested >> >> put offset("-",pIndex) into dashPos >> >> set the itemdelimiter to tempDel >> >> if dashPos > 1 then >> >> -- don't catch if pIndex is something like -1, -2, etc >> >> put char 1 to dashPos-1 of pIndex into tStart >> >> put char dashPos+1 to -1 of pIndex into tEnd >> >> put item tStart to tEnd of pContainer into theItem >> >> replace tempDel with pDelim in theItem >> >> else >> >> put item pIndex of pContainer into theItem >> >> end if >> >> return theItem >> >> end getItem >> >> >> >> function getDelimiters pText, nbr >> >> -- returns a cr-delimited list of characters >> >> -- not found in the variable pText >> >> -- use for delimiters for, eg, parsing text files, manipulating >> arrays, >> >> etc. >> >> -- usage: put getDelimiters(pText,2) into tDelims >> >> -- if tDelims begins with "Error" then exit to top -- or >> whatever >> >> -- put line 1 of tDelims into lineDivider >> >> -- put line 2 of tDelims into itemDivider >> >> -- etc. >> >> -- by Peter M. Brigham, pmbrig at gmail.com ? freeware >> >> >> >> if pText = empty then return "Error: no text specified." >> >> if nbr = empty then put 1 into nbr -- default 1 delimiter >> >> put "2,3,4,5,6,7,8,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26" into baseList >> >> -- low ASCII values, excluding CR, LF, tab, etc. >> >> put the number of items of baseList into maxNbr >> >> if nbr > maxNbr then return "Error: max" && maxNbr && "delimiters." >> >> repeat with tCount = 1 to nbr >> >> put true into failed >> >> repeat with i = 1 to the number of items of baseList >> >> put item i of baseList into testNbr >> >> put numtochar(testNbr) into testChar >> >> if testChar is not in pText then >> >> -- found one, store and get next delim >> >> put false into failed >> >> put testChar into line tCount of delimList >> >> exit repeat >> >> end if >> >> end repeat >> >> if failed then >> >> if tCount = 0 then >> >> return "Error: cannot get any delimiters." >> >> else if tCount = 1 then >> >> return "Error: can only get one delimiter." >> >> else >> >> return "Error: can only get" && tCount && "delimiters." >> >> end if >> >> end if >> >> delete item i of baseList >> >> end repeat >> >> return delimList >> >> end getDelimiters >> >> >> >> >> >> On Aug 8, 2015, at 8:23 AM, David Bovill wrote: >> >> >> >>> Given the long id of a control - how do I extract the reference to the >> >>> stack ti belongs to? I have a function that i have used since the >> dawn of >> >>> time for this - but I recall seeing a new chunk / target / reference >> >>> feature of Livecode in the last year that makes this easier. Did I >> >> imagine >> >>> it? >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> use-livecode mailing list >> >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> >> subscription preferences: >> >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> use-livecode mailing list >> >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> >> subscription preferences: >> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> > use-livecode mailing list >> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > From pmbrig at gmail.com Sat Aug 8 13:52:52 2015 From: pmbrig at gmail.com (Peter M. Brigham) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2015 13:52:52 -0400 Subject: Extracting a reference to a stack In-Reply-To: References: <5E34E6BD-76AF-407B-BAD9-2C3C2E27ED67@gmail.com> <807A76BE-8A84-4739-B623-B42AC03C769B@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Aug 8, 2015, at 1:45 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: > I do it like this > > function stackOfObject pobject > > local tObject > > put pobject into tObject > repeat > if word 1 of tObject is "stack" then > return tObject > end if I assume you meant to include a line "delete word 1 of tObject" at the end of the repeat loop. -- Peter Peter M. Brigham pmbrig at gmail.com http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sat Aug 8 13:56:55 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2015 20:56:55 +0300 Subject: Jane Austen's peculiarity In-Reply-To: References: <55C6318B.706@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55C642E7.8060406@gmail.com> On 08/08/15 20:48, Peter M. Brigham wrote: > On Aug 8, 2015, at 12:42 PM, Richmond wrote: > >> Jane Austen [amongst others] uses an interesting type of grammatical construction of this sort: >> >> After breakfast, the girls walked to Meryton to inquire if Mr. Wickham >> _were returned_, and to lament over his absence from the Netherfield ball. >> >> Pride and Prejudice. >> >> I would like to analyse a million word corpus that I have been granted access to for this type of construction. >> >> However, I don't want to find examples of only 'were returned', but all examples of >> >> were + infinitive / preterite / past participle >> >> and, presumably for that I shall have to use wildcards . . . >> >> OR ??? > I'll leave it to those who speak Regex to suggest a wildcard solution. Here's another one (not tested) that will catch past participles ending in "ed". Looks good; however, I am really looking for ALL preterites; such as 'become', so your 'ed' trap won't catch that. I am wondering about using a listField of all the preterites that I am looking for. > Not sure how this will scale with large texts: > > function findWere pText > -- returns a comma-delim list of all the word offsets matching "were *ed" > put wordOffsets("were", pText, true) into offList > repeat for each item w in offList > put word w+1 of pText into testWord > if testWord ends with "ed" then put w & comma after outList > end repeat > return item 1 to -1 of outList > end if > > function wordOffsets str, pContainer, matchWhole > -- returns a comma-delimited list of all the wordOffsets of str in pContainer > -- if matchWhole = true then only whole words are located > -- else will find word matches everywhere str is part of a word in pContainer > -- note that in LC words will include adjacent puncutation, > -- so using matchWhole = true may exclude too many "words" > -- duplicates are stripped out > -- eg wordOffsets("co","the common coconut") = 2,3 not 2,3,3 > -- note: to get the last wordOffset of a string in a container (often useful) > -- use "item -1 of wordOffsets(...)" > -- by Peter M. Brigham, pmbrig at gmail.com ? freeware > -- requires offsets() > > if matchWhole = empty then put false into matchWhole > put offsets(str,pContainer) into offList > if offList = 0 then return 0 > repeat for each item i in offList > put the number of words of (char 1 to i of pContainer) into wdNbr > if matchWhole then > if word wdNbr of pContainer <> str then next repeat > end if > put 1 into A[wdNbr] > -- using an array avoids duplicates > end repeat > put the keys of A into wordList > sort lines of wordList ascending numeric > replace cr with comma in wordList > return wordList > end wordOffsets > > function offsets str, pContainer > -- returns a comma-delimited list of all the offsets of str in pContainer > -- returns 0 if not found > -- note: offsets("xx","xxxxxx") returns "1,3,5" not "1,2,3,4,5" > -- ie, overlapping offsets are not counted > -- note: to get the last occurrence of a string in a container (often useful) > -- use "item -1 of offsets(...)" > -- by Peter M. Brigham, pmbrig at gmail.com ? freeware > > if str is not in pContainer then return 0 > put 0 into startPoint > repeat > put offset(str,pContainer,startPoint) into thisOffset > if thisOffset = 0 then exit repeat > add thisOffset to startPoint > put startPoint & comma after offsetList > add length(str)-1 to startPoint > end repeat > return item 1 to -1 of offsetList -- delete trailing comma > end offsets > > P.S. I love Jane Austen. One of my favorite books of all time is "Pride and Prejudice." It's so beautifully constructed. Glad to hear that another programmer doesn't spend all their time in front of a computer screen! > > -- Peter > > Richmond. From pmbrig at gmail.com Sat Aug 8 14:18:19 2015 From: pmbrig at gmail.com (Peter M. Brigham) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2015 14:18:19 -0400 Subject: Jane Austen's peculiarity In-Reply-To: <55C642E7.8060406@gmail.com> References: <55C6318B.706@gmail.com> <55C642E7.8060406@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Aug 8, 2015, at 1:56 PM, Richmond wrote: > On 08/08/15 20:48, Peter M. Brigham wrote: >> On Aug 8, 2015, at 12:42 PM, Richmond wrote: >> >>> Jane Austen [amongst others] uses an interesting type of grammatical construction of this sort: >>> >>> After breakfast, the girls walked to Meryton to inquire if Mr. Wickham >>> _were returned_, and to lament over his absence from the Netherfield ball. >>> >>> Pride and Prejudice. >>> >>> I would like to analyse a million word corpus that I have been granted access to for this type of construction. >>> >>> However, I don't want to find examples of only 'were returned', but all examples of >>> >>> were + infinitive / preterite / past participle >>> >>> and, presumably for that I shall have to use wildcards . . . >>> >>> OR ??? >> I'll leave it to those who speak Regex to suggest a wildcard solution. Here's another one (not tested) that will catch past participles ending in "ed". > > Looks good; however, I am really looking for ALL preterites; such as 'become', so your 'ed' trap won't catch that. > > I am wondering about using a listField of all the preterites that I am looking for. if you do that then just make the repeat loop as follows: repeat for each item w in offList put word w+1 of pText into testWord if testWord ends with "ed" then put w & comma after outList else if testWord is among the words of fld "preteritesList" then put w & comma after outList end repeat This will be faster if you put the preteritesList field into a variable before the repeat loop, since it's significantly faster for the engine to access the contents of a variable compared with the contents of a field. -- Peter Peter M. Brigham pmbrig at gmail.com http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig >> Not sure how this will scale with large texts: >> >> function findWere pText >> -- returns a comma-delim list of all the word offsets matching "were *ed" >> put wordOffsets("were", pText, true) into offList >> repeat for each item w in offList >> put word w+1 of pText into testWord >> if testWord ends with "ed" then put w & comma after outList >> end repeat >> return item 1 to -1 of outList >> end if >> >> function wordOffsets str, pContainer, matchWhole >> -- returns a comma-delimited list of all the wordOffsets of str in pContainer >> -- if matchWhole = true then only whole words are located >> -- else will find word matches everywhere str is part of a word in pContainer >> -- note that in LC words will include adjacent puncutation, >> -- so using matchWhole = true may exclude too many "words" >> -- duplicates are stripped out >> -- eg wordOffsets("co","the common coconut") = 2,3 not 2,3,3 >> -- note: to get the last wordOffset of a string in a container (often useful) >> -- use "item -1 of wordOffsets(...)" >> -- by Peter M. Brigham, pmbrig at gmail.com ? freeware >> -- requires offsets() >> >> if matchWhole = empty then put false into matchWhole >> put offsets(str,pContainer) into offList >> if offList = 0 then return 0 >> repeat for each item i in offList >> put the number of words of (char 1 to i of pContainer) into wdNbr >> if matchWhole then >> if word wdNbr of pContainer <> str then next repeat >> end if >> put 1 into A[wdNbr] >> -- using an array avoids duplicates >> end repeat >> put the keys of A into wordList >> sort lines of wordList ascending numeric >> replace cr with comma in wordList >> return wordList >> end wordOffsets >> >> function offsets str, pContainer >> -- returns a comma-delimited list of all the offsets of str in pContainer >> -- returns 0 if not found >> -- note: offsets("xx","xxxxxx") returns "1,3,5" not "1,2,3,4,5" >> -- ie, overlapping offsets are not counted >> -- note: to get the last occurrence of a string in a container (often useful) >> -- use "item -1 of offsets(...)" >> -- by Peter M. Brigham, pmbrig at gmail.com ? freeware >> >> if str is not in pContainer then return 0 >> put 0 into startPoint >> repeat >> put offset(str,pContainer,startPoint) into thisOffset >> if thisOffset = 0 then exit repeat >> add thisOffset to startPoint >> put startPoint & comma after offsetList >> add length(str)-1 to startPoint >> end repeat >> return item 1 to -1 of offsetList -- delete trailing comma >> end offsets >> >> P.S. I love Jane Austen. One of my favorite books of all time is "Pride and Prejudice." It's so beautifully constructed. > > > Glad to hear that another programmer doesn't spend all their time in front of a computer screen! From th.douez at gmail.com Sat Aug 8 14:43:02 2015 From: th.douez at gmail.com (Thierry Douez) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2015 20:43:02 +0200 Subject: Extracting a reference to a stack In-Reply-To: References: <5E34E6BD-76AF-407B-BAD9-2C3C2E27ED67@gmail.com> <807A76BE-8A84-4739-B623-B42AC03C769B@gmail.com> Message-ID: Here is a regex solution. and as a bonus, in 3 variants: on mouseUp -- button id 1003 of card id 1002 of stack "stack 2" -- of stack "/Users/t/Desktop/stack.livecode" put fld "L1" into aLongID put theStackOwner( aLongID) into field "L2" put theMainStackOwner( aLongID) into field "L3" put stackOwners( aLongID) into R if R is empty then put "not found" into fld "L4" else put item 1 of R &" --- "& item 2 of R into field "L4" end mouseUp function theStackOwner pLongID if matchText(pLongID, "of stack \x22(.*?)\x22", _1) then return _1 return "not found" end theStackOwner function theMainStackOwner pLongID if matchText(pLongID, "of stack \x22([^\x22]*)\x22$", _1) then return _1 return "not found" end theMainStackOwner function stackOwners pLongID local REX put "(?: of stack \x22([^\x22]*?)\x22)? of stack \x22([^\x22]*)\x22$" into REX if matchText(pLongID, REX, _1, _2) then return _1 &comma& _2 return empty end stackOwners Did a quick test, so it works here, plus I put the word "stack" in the stack names for a more severe test. As I hate to write "& quote &" in my code, \x22 is the ASCII value for the quote char. Not tested on LC 7 yet. Regards, Thierry ------------------------------------------------ Thierry Douez - http://sunny-tdz.com From paul at livecode.org Sat Aug 8 14:48:48 2015 From: paul at livecode.org (Paul Hibbert) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2015 11:48:48 -0700 Subject: Odd behavior in Win8-I'm stuck fixing it, Help?? In-Reply-To: References: <8F200619-C73C-465A-A36C-3EA1387E8619@earthednet.org> <9DB490A9-28C3-43C8-86C5-8941182887EE@earthednet.org> Message-ID: Hi Bill, Sorry for the delay replying, I?ve been away from home for a few days. I don?t think line 6 will give the result you are looking for, I would change it to: > 6. export snapshot from Group "snapshotGrp" with metadata theMetadataArray to image mySnapShot i.e. Remove the ?from rect? part of the command. Using "from rect? still relies on the computer hardware to produce the snapshot, where as ?from object? allows LC to render the snapshot with whatever parameters you supply. I?ve saved a test stack to dropbox, hopefully this will demonstrate the differences a little better: https://www.dropbox.com/s/xkx2fk4a2mel6l3/Export%20High%20Res%20Image.livecode?dl=0 I hope this helps resolve the problem. Regards, Paul > On Aug 6, 2015, at 11:00, William Prothero wrote: > > Paul: One more thing. My test uses a variable ?theMetadataArray?, which is not set, so is blank. The manual states: > metadata - The metadata is an array of metadata. Currently the only key supported is "density" with a value in pixels per inch (ppi). > > So, I wonder if, to get the benefit, I have to set pixels per inch somehow, in theMetadataArray. > Best, > Bill > >> On Aug 6, 2015, at 10:57 AM, William Prothero wrote: >> >> Paul: >> FYI, I set up a test stack to figure out how to use the ?from object? method of getting a snapshot image. Here?s the steps I followed: >> >> 1. put all images that are to be captured in a group. >> 2. set the group rect to the desired snapshot rect >> 3. Lock the group rect >> 4. Set the group to "scaling" >> 5. In the script: set the snapRect to the rect of the group >> 6. export snapshot from rect snapRect of Group "snapshotGrp" with metadata theMetadataArray to image mySnapShot >> 7. set the rect of img mySnapShot to snapRect >> 8. set the visible if img mySnapShot to TRUE >> >> Perhaps this will help others. I have no idea if this would solve the problem an occasional student has, but the method works fine in Macintosh OS 10.10.4 and livecode 7.0.6 >> >> What I have is a very large map image in the group. The map is magnified, scrolled, etc. When some kinds of data are plotted, graphic and field object are placed in the correct locations over the map. Then the snapshot is taken and the graphic objects (except for the map) are deleted. For large symbol datasets, like earthquakes, I draw the symbols directly into the snapshot graphic. That way the image data is much smaller than if I tried to draw into the large map, and also, the large map doesn?t need to be refreshed when data are erased from view. >> >> Thanks again for the hints. >> Best, >> Bill >> >>> On Aug 3, 2015, at 7:42 PM, Paul Hibbert wrote: >>> >>> Bill, >>> >>> I?ve done a few tests and it appears to me that "from rect? still relies on the screen output from the computer, whereas ?from object? allows LC to render an image of an object independent of the screen hardware. >>> >>> Try this: >>> >>> Move your stack so the map image is half off the screen, then make the snapshot, the image doesn?t render completely, this suggests to me that the app is accessing a screen representation of the image rather than using LC?s internal rendering, so 'I think' changing the snap routine to make a snap from say a group of the map and it?s associated data may cure the problem. >>> >>> eg. export snapshot from group ?mapAndData? to image ?mapSnap? ? then try the test above again. >>> >>> Paul >>> >>> >>>> On Aug 3, 2015, at 16:22, William Prothero wrote: >>>> >>>> Paul: >>>> Thanks for the hint. I do use the newer ?from? syntax. >>>> export snapshot from rect snapRect to image "mapSnap" >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Bill >>>> >>>>> On Jul 31, 2015, at 3:35 PM, Paul Hibbert wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Bill, >>>>> >>>>> I?ve just read the following explanation from RG relating to another snapshot problem and wondered if it also relates to your student?s problems? >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> The "from" option renders the object into a new buffer set up just for the snapshot, while the older "of" syntax grabs the object's rect from the composite screen buffer. >>>>>> >>>>>> LiveCode renders only the content region of a window but the window itself is rendered by the OS, so it has no choice but to obtain that image from the screen buffer. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Richard Gaskin >>>>>> Fourth World Systems >>>>>> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web >>>>>> ____________________________________________________________________ >>>>>> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com >>>>> >>>>> When I first read your post I wondered if the problem could be due to low grade or incompatible video cards in the affected machines, if that?s the case then the above explanation would make sense, to me at least. >>>>> >>>>> So, the question is, does your "export snapshot" script use the ?from? or ?of? option? >>>>> >>>>> If it?s the ?of? option then switching to the ?from? option may fix the problem your students are seeing. >>>>> >>>>> Just a thought. >>>>> >>>>> Paul >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On Jul 16, 2015, at 14:07, William Prothero wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Folks: >>>>>> I have an application that is being used by a class of Earth Science students and get failure reports from two who use Windows 8. One lives in Australia and one lives in Japan. The app works fine on Macintosh. I?ve also tested it on my own installation of both Windows 8.1 and 7, 32 bit and 64 bit versions. I can?t get the reported pixellation of the map and screen. >>>>>> >>>>>> I?m wondering if it is something related to foreign installations. The symptom is extreme pixellation of images captured with the "export snapshot? command. I live in the US. >>>>>> >>>>>> So, I wonder if somebody with Windows 8 would be willing to download the app and try it, and perhaps give me an idea of what might be going on. If it?s a bug in ?snapshot?, it would be important to be reported and fixed. Otherwise, I?m pretty stuck on figuring out what is going on. >>>>>> >>>>>> Here are links: >>>>>> Windows zip file of the app: >>>>>> Pixellated Image sent by a student >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks for any help or feedback you can give me. >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards, >>>>>> Bill >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> William A. Prothero >>>>>> http://es.earthednet.org/ >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> >>>>> Paul Hibbert >>>>> paul at livecode.org >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Paul Hibbert >>> paul at livecode.org >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sat Aug 8 14:55:44 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2015 21:55:44 +0300 Subject: Jane Austen's peculiarity In-Reply-To: References: <55C6318B.706@gmail.com> <55C642E7.8060406@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55C650B0.1050402@gmail.com> On 08/08/15 21:18, Peter M. Brigham wrote: > On Aug 8, 2015, at 1:56 PM, Richmond wrote: > >> On 08/08/15 20:48, Peter M. Brigham wrote: >>> On Aug 8, 2015, at 12:42 PM, Richmond wrote: >>> >>>> Jane Austen [amongst others] uses an interesting type of grammatical construction of this sort: >>>> >>>> After breakfast, the girls walked to Meryton to inquire if Mr. Wickham >>>> _were returned_, and to lament over his absence from the Netherfield ball. >>>> >>>> Pride and Prejudice. >>>> >>>> I would like to analyse a million word corpus that I have been granted access to for this type of construction. >>>> >>>> However, I don't want to find examples of only 'were returned', but all examples of >>>> >>>> were + infinitive / preterite / past participle >>>> >>>> and, presumably for that I shall have to use wildcards . . . >>>> >>>> OR ??? >>> I'll leave it to those who speak Regex to suggest a wildcard solution. Here's another one (not tested) that will catch past participles ending in "ed". >> Looks good; however, I am really looking for ALL preterites; such as 'become', so your 'ed' trap won't catch that. >> >> I am wondering about using a listField of all the preterites that I am looking for. > if you do that then just make the repeat loop as follows: > repeat for each item w in offList > put word w+1 of pText into testWord > if testWord ends with "ed" then put w & comma after outList > else if testWord is among the words of fld "preteritesList" > then put w & comma after outList > end repeat > > This will be faster if you put the preteritesList field into a variable before the repeat loop, since it's significantly faster for the engine to access the contents of a variable compared with the contents of a field. Thanks for that one I've just made a fool of myself using a listField of the verb forms and the "thing" is glacially slow. As soon as the stack has run its course I will implement your suggestion. Richmond. > > -- Peter > > Peter M. Brigham > pmbrig at gmail.com > http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig > > >>> Not sure how this will scale with large texts: >>> >>> function findWere pText >>> -- returns a comma-delim list of all the word offsets matching "were *ed" >>> put wordOffsets("were", pText, true) into offList >>> repeat for each item w in offList >>> put word w+1 of pText into testWord >>> if testWord ends with "ed" then put w & comma after outList >>> end repeat >>> return item 1 to -1 of outList >>> end if >>> >>> function wordOffsets str, pContainer, matchWhole >>> -- returns a comma-delimited list of all the wordOffsets of str in pContainer >>> -- if matchWhole = true then only whole words are located >>> -- else will find word matches everywhere str is part of a word in pContainer >>> -- note that in LC words will include adjacent puncutation, >>> -- so using matchWhole = true may exclude too many "words" >>> -- duplicates are stripped out >>> -- eg wordOffsets("co","the common coconut") = 2,3 not 2,3,3 >>> -- note: to get the last wordOffset of a string in a container (often useful) >>> -- use "item -1 of wordOffsets(...)" >>> -- by Peter M. Brigham, pmbrig at gmail.com ? freeware >>> -- requires offsets() >>> >>> if matchWhole = empty then put false into matchWhole >>> put offsets(str,pContainer) into offList >>> if offList = 0 then return 0 >>> repeat for each item i in offList >>> put the number of words of (char 1 to i of pContainer) into wdNbr >>> if matchWhole then >>> if word wdNbr of pContainer <> str then next repeat >>> end if >>> put 1 into A[wdNbr] >>> -- using an array avoids duplicates >>> end repeat >>> put the keys of A into wordList >>> sort lines of wordList ascending numeric >>> replace cr with comma in wordList >>> return wordList >>> end wordOffsets >>> >>> function offsets str, pContainer >>> -- returns a comma-delimited list of all the offsets of str in pContainer >>> -- returns 0 if not found >>> -- note: offsets("xx","xxxxxx") returns "1,3,5" not "1,2,3,4,5" >>> -- ie, overlapping offsets are not counted >>> -- note: to get the last occurrence of a string in a container (often useful) >>> -- use "item -1 of offsets(...)" >>> -- by Peter M. Brigham, pmbrig at gmail.com ? freeware >>> >>> if str is not in pContainer then return 0 >>> put 0 into startPoint >>> repeat >>> put offset(str,pContainer,startPoint) into thisOffset >>> if thisOffset = 0 then exit repeat >>> add thisOffset to startPoint >>> put startPoint & comma after offsetList >>> add length(str)-1 to startPoint >>> end repeat >>> return item 1 to -1 of offsetList -- delete trailing comma >>> end offsets >>> >>> P.S. I love Jane Austen. One of my favorite books of all time is "Pride and Prejudice." It's so beautifully constructed. >> >> Glad to hear that another programmer doesn't spend all their time in front of a computer screen! > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sat Aug 8 15:41:02 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2015 22:41:02 +0300 Subject: Jane Austen's peculiarity In-Reply-To: References: <55C6318B.706@gmail.com> <55C642E7.8060406@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55C65B4E.90009@gmail.com> I seem to be going wrong: I have a fld "WERBS" containing: found returned become and my test to be analysed in a fld "TEKST": My Dad ate cheese. ?M?y? ?M?u?m? ?and Dad w?ere ret?u?r?n?e?d? ?h?o?m?e? ?w?h?e?n? ?i?t? ?b?e?g?a?n? ?t?o? ?r?a?i?n?. ?H?e? ?h?a?d? ?a? ?h?o?u?s?e? ?i?n? ?S?p?a?i?n?. They were bec?o?m?e? ?h?a?i?r?d?r?e?s?s?e?r?s. They were found. ?finalSolution666 But this: on mouseUp put 1 into textLine put fld "WERBS" into $WERBS put fld "TEKST" into $TEKST put 1 into cookedLine repeat until line textLine of $TEKST contains "finalSolution666" put 1 into verbLine repeat until line verbLine of $WERBS is empty put line verbLine of $WERBS into WERB put "were" && WERB into FRAZE if line textLine $TEKST contains FRAZE then put line textLine $TEKST into line cookedLine of fld "COOKED" add 1 to cookedLine end if add 1 to verbLine end repeat add 1 to textLine end repeat end mouseUp put only "They were found" in line 1 of fld "COOKED" something wrong with my counters ???? Richmond. From simplsol at aol.com Sat Aug 8 15:56:58 2015 From: simplsol at aol.com (Paul Looney) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2015 12:56:58 -0700 Subject: Jane Austen's peculiarity In-Reply-To: <55C6318B.706@gmail.com> References: <55C6318B.706@gmail.com> Message-ID: <42CB666E-3384-43D3-9526-4EC72F55093E@aol.com> Richmond, The key here is the ?if? - which creates a conditional clause - which requires the past plural of the verb (in this case ?were?). This is similar to the ?wenn" clause in German (Deutsch) and the ?ut? clause in Latin. If I were able, I?d thank you in person for mentioning this. Paul Looney > On Aug 8, 2015, at 9:42 AM, Richmond wrote: > > Jane Austen [amongst others] uses an interesting type of grammatical construction of this sort: > > After breakfast, the girls walked to Meryton to inquire if Mr. Wickham > _were returned_, and to lament over his absence from the Netherfield ball. > > Pride and Prejudice. > > I would like to analyse a million word corpus that I have been granted access to for this type of construction. > > However, I don't want to find examples of only 'were returned', but all examples of > > were + infinitive / preterite / past participle > > and, presumably for that I shall have to use wildcards . . . > > OR ??? > > Richmond. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sat Aug 8 16:07:08 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2015 23:07:08 +0300 Subject: Jane Austen's peculiarity In-Reply-To: <42CB666E-3384-43D3-9526-4EC72F55093E@aol.com> References: <55C6318B.706@gmail.com> <42CB666E-3384-43D3-9526-4EC72F55093E@aol.com> Message-ID: <55C6616C.7030908@gmail.com> On 08/08/15 22:56, Paul Looney wrote: > Richmond, > > The key here is the ?if? - which creates a conditional clause - which requires the past plural of the verb (in this case ?were?). This is similar to the ?wenn" clause in German (Deutsch) and the ?ut? clause in Latin. > If I were able, I?d thank you in person for mentioning this. > > Paul Looney I'm not sure anent that: "He had been visiting a friend in the neighbouring county, and that friend having recently had his grounds laid out by an improver, Mr. Rushworth _was returned_ with his head full of the subject, and very eager to be improving his own place in the same way; and though not saying much to the purpose, could talk of nothing else." Jane Austen, "Mansfield Park" Richmond. > >> On Aug 8, 2015, at 9:42 AM, Richmond wrote: >> >> Jane Austen [amongst others] uses an interesting type of grammatical construction of this sort: >> >> After breakfast, the girls walked to Meryton to inquire if Mr. Wickham >> _were returned_, and to lament over his absence from the Netherfield ball. >> >> Pride and Prejudice. >> >> I would like to analyse a million word corpus that I have been granted access to for this type of construction. >> >> However, I don't want to find examples of only 'were returned', but all examples of >> >> were + infinitive / preterite / past participle >> >> and, presumably for that I shall have to use wildcards . . . >> >> OR ??? >> >> Richmond. >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From simplsol at aol.com Sat Aug 8 16:23:20 2015 From: simplsol at aol.com (Paul Looney) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2015 13:23:20 -0700 Subject: Jane Austen's peculiarity In-Reply-To: <55C6616C.7030908@gmail.com> References: <55C6318B.706@gmail.com> <42CB666E-3384-43D3-9526-4EC72F55093E@aol.com> <55C6616C.7030908@gmail.com> Message-ID: In your last example: "Mr. Rushworth _was returned_? ?was returned? (singular, past tense, passive) is correct (although a simple ?returned? would have been more powerful). There is no conditional, no ?if?; as in your first example: "to inquire if Mr. Wickham_were returned_," Haven?t had this much fun with the language in a long time? > On Aug 8, 2015, at 1:07 PM, Richmond wrote: > > On 08/08/15 22:56, Paul Looney wrote: >> Richmond, >> >> The key here is the ?if? - which creates a conditional clause - which requires the past plural of the verb (in this case ?were?). This is similar to the ?wenn" clause in German (Deutsch) and the ?ut? clause in Latin. >> If I were able, I?d thank you in person for mentioning this. >> >> Paul Looney > > I'm not sure anent that: > > "He had been visiting a friend in the neighbouring county, and that > friend having recently had his grounds laid out by an improver, Mr. > Rushworth _was returned_ with his head full of the subject, and very eager > to be improving his own place in the same way; and though not saying > much to the purpose, could talk of nothing else." > > Jane Austen, "Mansfield Park" > > Richmond. >> >>> On Aug 8, 2015, at 9:42 AM, Richmond wrote: >>> >>> Jane Austen [amongst others] uses an interesting type of grammatical construction of this sort: >>> >>> After breakfast, the girls walked to Meryton to inquire if Mr. Wickham >>> _were returned_, and to lament over his absence from the Netherfield ball. >>> >>> Pride and Prejudice. >>> >>> I would like to analyse a million word corpus that I have been granted access to for this type of construction. >>> >>> However, I don't want to find examples of only 'were returned', but all examples of >>> >>> were + infinitive / preterite / past participle >>> >>> and, presumably for that I shall have to use wildcards . . . >>> >>> OR ??? >>> >>> Richmond. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From pmbrig at gmail.com Sat Aug 8 16:33:01 2015 From: pmbrig at gmail.com (Peter M. Brigham) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2015 16:33:01 -0400 Subject: Jane Austen's peculiarity In-Reply-To: <55C65B4E.90009@gmail.com> References: <55C6318B.706@gmail.com> <55C642E7.8060406@gmail.com> <55C65B4E.90009@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Aug 8, 2015, at 3:41 PM, Richmond wrote: > I seem to be going wrong: > > I have a fld "WERBS" containing: > > found > returned > become > > and my test to be analysed in a fld "TEKST": > > My Dad ate cheese. > ?M?y? ?M?u?m? ?and Dad w?ere ret?u?r?n?e?d? ?h?o?m?e? ?w?h?e?n? ?i?t? ?b?e?g?a?n? ?t?o? ?r?a?i?n?. > ?H?e? ?h?a?d? ?a? ?h?o?u?s?e? ?i?n? ?S?p?a?i?n?. > They were bec?o?m?e? ?h?a?i?r?d?r?e?s?s?e?r?s. > They were found. > ?finalSolution666 > > But this: > > on mouseUp > put 1 into textLine > put fld "WERBS" into $WERBS > put fld "TEKST" into $TEKST > put 1 into cookedLine > repeat until line textLine of $TEKST contains "finalSolution666" > put 1 into verbLine > repeat until line verbLine of $WERBS is empty > put line verbLine of $WERBS into WERB > put "were" && WERB into FRAZE > if line textLine $TEKST contains FRAZE then > put line textLine $TEKST into line cookedLine of fld "COOKED" Missing an "of" in the two lines above: put line textLine *of* $TEKST into line cookedLine of fld "COOKED" etc Don't know if that's the problem. > add 1 to cookedLine > end if > add 1 to verbLine > end repeat > add 1 to textLine > end repeat > end mouseUp > > put only "They were found" in line 1 of fld "COOKED" Your script logic seems unnecessarily complex. Since it looks as if only the last occurrence is ending up in the output field, instead of using a counter to keep track of the next line in the field, you could just put cr & line textLine of $TEKST after fld "COOKED" But once again, loading a line into a field repeatedly will be much slower than putting it into a variable in the repeat loop and then putting the variable into the field just once when the repeat is done. Getting or putting something from or into a field is much slower than doing the same in a variable, so just do it once. Also, I can see no reason to be loading your data into system variables, which is what "$WERBS" etc is defining. The only reason to put something into a variable beginning with "$" is if you want some other system process besides LC to be able to access the data. -- Peter Peter M. Brigham pmbrig at gmail.com http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sat Aug 8 16:40:37 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2015 23:40:37 +0300 Subject: Jane Austen's peculiarity In-Reply-To: References: <55C6318B.706@gmail.com> <55C642E7.8060406@gmail.com> <55C65B4E.90009@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55C66945.9010207@gmail.com> On 08/08/15 23:33, Peter M. Brigham wrote: > On Aug 8, 2015, at 3:41 PM, Richmond wrote: > >> I seem to be going wrong: >> >> I have a fld "WERBS" containing: >> >> found >> returned >> become >> >> and my test to be analysed in a fld "TEKST": >> >> My Dad ate cheese. >> ?M?y? ?M?u?m? ?and Dad w?ere ret?u?r?n?e?d? ?h?o?m?e? ?w?h?e?n? ?i?t? ?b?e?g?a?n? ?t?o? ?r?a?i?n?. >> ?H?e? ?h?a?d? ?a? ?h?o?u?s?e? ?i?n? ?S?p?a?i?n?. >> They were bec?o?m?e? ?h?a?i?r?d?r?e?s?s?e?r?s. >> They were found. >> ?finalSolution666 >> >> But this: >> >> on mouseUp >> put 1 into textLine >> put fld "WERBS" into $WERBS >> put fld "TEKST" into $TEKST >> put 1 into cookedLine >> repeat until line textLine of $TEKST contains "finalSolution666" >> put 1 into verbLine >> repeat until line verbLine of $WERBS is empty >> put line verbLine of $WERBS into WERB >> put "were" && WERB into FRAZE >> if line textLine $TEKST contains FRAZE then >> put line textLine $TEKST into line cookedLine of fld "COOKED" > Missing an "of" in the two lines above: > put line textLine *of* $TEKST into line cookedLine of fld "COOKED" etc > Don't know if that's the problem. > >> add 1 to cookedLine >> end if >> add 1 to verbLine >> end repeat >> add 1 to textLine >> end repeat >> end mouseUp >> >> put only "They were found" in line 1 of fld "COOKED" > Your script logic seems unnecessarily complex. Since it looks as if only the last occurrence is ending up in the output field, instead of using a counter to keep track of the next line in the field, you could just > put cr & line textLine of $TEKST after fld "COOKED" > But once again, loading a line into a field repeatedly will be much slower than putting it into a variable in the repeat loop and then putting the variable into the field just once when the repeat is done. Getting or putting something from or into a field is much slower than doing the same in a variable, so just do it once. > > Also, I can see no reason to be loading your data into system variables, which is what "$WERBS" etc is defining. The only reason to put something into a variable beginning with "$" is if you want some other system process besides LC to be able to access the data. > > -- Peter > > Peter M. Brigham > pmbrig at gmail.com > http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig > Um . . . "$" is a mistake brought on by a dream I had about FORTRAN last night: in FORTRAN IV '$" was used for string variables. Senior moment! Richmond. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sat Aug 8 16:44:49 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2015 23:44:49 +0300 Subject: Jane Austen's peculiarity In-Reply-To: References: <55C6318B.706@gmail.com> <42CB666E-3384-43D3-9526-4EC72F55093E@aol.com> <55C6616C.7030908@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55C66A41.3020805@gmail.com> On 08/08/15 23:23, Paul Looney wrote: > In your last example: > > "Mr. Rushworth _was returned_? > > ?was returned? (singular, past tense, passive) I'm not sure if that is a passive, or an older form of the past perfect (= had returned) ??? > is correct (although a simple ?returned? would have been more powerful). There is no conditional, no ?if?; as in your first example: > > "to inquire if Mr. Wickham_were returned_," > > Haven?t had this much fun with the language in a long time? > > >> On Aug 8, 2015, at 1:07 PM, Richmond wrote: >> >> On 08/08/15 22:56, Paul Looney wrote: >>> Richmond, >>> >>> The key here is the ?if? - which creates a conditional clause - which requires the past plural of the verb (in this case ?were?). This is similar to the ?wenn" clause in German (Deutsch) and the ?ut? clause in Latin. >>> If I were able, I?d thank you in person for mentioning this. >>> >>> Paul Looney >> I'm not sure anent that: >> >> "He had been visiting a friend in the neighbouring county, and that >> friend having recently had his grounds laid out by an improver, Mr. >> Rushworth _was returned_ with his head full of the subject, and very eager >> to be improving his own place in the same way; and though not saying >> much to the purpose, could talk of nothing else." >> >> Jane Austen, "Mansfield Park" >> >> Richmond. >>>> On Aug 8, 2015, at 9:42 AM, Richmond wrote: >>>> >>>> Jane Austen [amongst others] uses an interesting type of grammatical construction of this sort: >>>> >>>> After breakfast, the girls walked to Meryton to inquire if Mr. Wickham >>>> _were returned_, and to lament over his absence from the Netherfield ball. >>>> >>>> Pride and Prejudice. >>>> >>>> I would like to analyse a million word corpus that I have been granted access to for this type of construction. >>>> >>>> However, I don't want to find examples of only 'were returned', but all examples of >>>> >>>> were + infinitive / preterite / past participle >>>> >>>> and, presumably for that I shall have to use wildcards . . . >>>> >>>> OR ??? >>>> >>>> Richmond. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sat Aug 8 16:51:34 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2015 23:51:34 +0300 Subject: Jane Austen's peculiarity In-Reply-To: References: <55C6318B.706@gmail.com> <55C642E7.8060406@gmail.com> <55C65B4E.90009@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55C66BD6.7040503@gmail.com> On 08/08/15 23:33, Peter M. Brigham wrote: > Missing an "of" in the two lines above: > put line textLine *of* $TEKST into line cookedLine of fld "COOKED" etc > Don't know if that's the problem. > Your script logic seems unnecessarily complex. Since it looks as if only the last occurrence is ending up in the output field, instead of using a counter to keep track of the next line in the field, you could just > put cr & line textLine of $TEKST after fld "COOKED" > But once again, loading a line into a field repeatedly will be much slower than putting it into a variable in the repeat loop and then putting the variable into the field just once when the repeat is done. Getting or putting something from or into a field is much slower than doing the same in a variable, so just do it once. > > Also, I can see no reason to be loading your data into system variables, which is what "$WERBS" etc is defining. The only reason to put something into a variable beginning with "$" is if you want some other system process besides LC to be able to access the data. > > -- Peter > > Well, as per your suggestion I did this: on mouseUp put 1 into textLine put fld "WERBS" into WERBS put fld "TEKST" into TEKST repeat until line textLine of TEKST contains "finalSolution666" put textLine into fld "KOUNT" put 1 into verbLine repeat until line verbLine of WERBS is empty put line textLine of TEKST into fld "LYNE" put line verbLine of WERBS into WERB put "were" && WERB into FRAZE put FRAZE into fld "FRAZE" if line textLine of TEKST contains FRAZE then if fld "COOKED" is empty then put line textLine of TEKST after fld "COOKED" -- this is here so that line 1 of fld "COOKED" does not end up empty else put cr & line textLine of TEKST after fld "COOKED" end if end if add 1 to verbLine end repeat add 1 to textLine end repeat end mouseUp but still get only the last value. Richmond. From pmbrig at gmail.com Sat Aug 8 16:59:59 2015 From: pmbrig at gmail.com (Peter M. Brigham) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2015 16:59:59 -0400 Subject: English usage [OT] (used to be "Re: Jane Austen's peculiarity") In-Reply-To: <55C66A41.3020805@gmail.com> References: <55C6318B.706@gmail.com> <42CB666E-3384-43D3-9526-4EC72F55093E@aol.com> <55C6616C.7030908@gmail.com> <55C66A41.3020805@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Aug 8, 2015, at 4:44 PM, Richmond wrote: > On 08/08/15 23:23, Paul Looney wrote: >> In your last example: >> >> "Mr. Rushworth _was returned_? >> >> ?was returned? (singular, past tense, passive) > > I'm not sure if that is a passive, or an older form of the past perfect (= had returned) ??? I believe that with verbs relating to motion and location, the old past tense was not "has returned" but "is returned." "He has come home" is modern English, it used to be "He is come home." The old usage survives in modern French: "Il est venu," rather than "Il a venu." I agree that it's not passive, just an old auxiliary verb. -- Peter Peter M. Brigham pmbrig at gmail.com http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sat Aug 8 17:05:58 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2015 00:05:58 +0300 Subject: English usage [OT] (used to be "Re: Jane Austen's peculiarity") In-Reply-To: References: <55C6318B.706@gmail.com> <42CB666E-3384-43D3-9526-4EC72F55093E@aol.com> <55C6616C.7030908@gmail.com> <55C66A41.3020805@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55C66F36.1030201@gmail.com> On 08/08/15 23:59, Peter M. Brigham wrote: > On Aug 8, 2015, at 4:44 PM, Richmond wrote: > >> On 08/08/15 23:23, Paul Looney wrote: >>> In your last example: >>> >>> "Mr. Rushworth _was returned_? >>> >>> ?was returned? (singular, past tense, passive) >> I'm not sure if that is a passive, or an older form of the past perfect (= had returned) ??? > I believe that with verbs relating to motion and location, the old past tense was not "has returned" but "is returned." "He has come home" is modern English, it used to be "He is come home." The old usage survives in modern French: "Il est venu," rather than "Il a venu." I agree that it's not passive, just an old auxiliary verb. > > -- Peter > > That is extremely useful: I shall pass that onto my wife (she's the Linguist-qua-Linguist: I just have an MA from SIUC in the subject - a dabbler), as she will be very pleased with that. Thank you. Richmond. From pmbrig at gmail.com Sat Aug 8 17:26:23 2015 From: pmbrig at gmail.com (Peter M. Brigham) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2015 17:26:23 -0400 Subject: Jane Austen's peculiarity In-Reply-To: <55C66BD6.7040503@gmail.com> References: <55C6318B.706@gmail.com> <55C642E7.8060406@gmail.com> <55C65B4E.90009@gmail.com> <55C66BD6.7040503@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3BFB63DF-9FAD-4BEB-AF7F-796137B01179@gmail.com> On Aug 8, 2015, at 4:51 PM, Richmond wrote: > On 08/08/15 23:33, Peter M. Brigham wrote: > > >> Missing an "of" in the two lines above: >> put line textLine *of* $TEKST into line cookedLine of fld "COOKED" etc >> Don't know if that's the problem. > > > >> Your script logic seems unnecessarily complex. Since it looks as if only the last occurrence is ending up in the output field, instead of using a counter to keep track of the next line in the field, you could just >> put cr & line textLine of $TEKST after fld "COOKED" >> But once again, loading a line into a field repeatedly will be much slower than putting it into a variable in the repeat loop and then putting the variable into the field just once when the repeat is done. Getting or putting something from or into a field is much slower than doing the same in a variable, so just do it once. >> >> Also, I can see no reason to be loading your data into system variables, which is what "$WERBS" etc is defining. The only reason to put something into a variable beginning with "$" is if you want some other system process besides LC to be able to access the data. >> >> -- Peter >> >> > > Well, as per your suggestion I did this: > > on mouseUp > put 1 into textLine > put fld "WERBS" into WERBS > put fld "TEKST" into TEKST > repeat until line textLine of TEKST contains "finalSolution666" > put textLine into fld "KOUNT" > put 1 into verbLine > repeat until line verbLine of WERBS is empty > put line textLine of TEKST into fld "LYNE" > put line verbLine of WERBS into WERB > put "were" && WERB into FRAZE > put FRAZE into fld "FRAZE" > if line textLine of TEKST contains FRAZE then > if fld "COOKED" is empty then > put line textLine of TEKST after fld "COOKED" > -- this is here so that line 1 of fld "COOKED" does not end up empty > else > put cr & line textLine of TEKST after fld "COOKED" > end if > end if > add 1 to verbLine > end repeat > add 1 to textLine > end repeat > end mouseUp > > but still get only the last value. Well, your logic still makes my head hurt, too many counters. Here's what I'd do, using a variant of my original function since it appears that you want to list the lines the relevant phrases occur in, not just the isolated phrases. function findWere pText -- returns a comma-delim list of all the line offsets matching "were *ed" -- or "were" && . put fld "WERBS" into pretList put wordOffsets("were", pText, true) into offList repeat for each item w in offList put word w+1 of pText into testWord if testWord ends with "ed" or testWord is among the words of pretList then put (the number of lines of word 1 to w of pText) & comma after outList end if end repeat return char 1 to -2 of outList end if then: on mouseup put fld "TEKXT" into tText put findWere(tText) into linesList repeat for each item i in linesList put line i of tText & cr after relevantLines end repeat put char 1 to -2 of relevantLines into fld "COOKED" end mouseup Untested, but you get the idea. -- Peter Peter M. Brigham pmbrig at gmail.com http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sat Aug 8 17:37:13 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2015 00:37:13 +0300 Subject: Jane Austen's peculiarity In-Reply-To: <3BFB63DF-9FAD-4BEB-AF7F-796137B01179@gmail.com> References: <55C6318B.706@gmail.com> <55C642E7.8060406@gmail.com> <55C65B4E.90009@gmail.com> <55C66BD6.7040503@gmail.com> <3BFB63DF-9FAD-4BEB-AF7F-796137B01179@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55C67689.9090200@gmail.com> On 09/08/15 00:26, Peter M. Brigham wrote: > On Aug 8, 2015, at 4:51 PM, Richmond wrote: > >> On 08/08/15 23:33, Peter M. Brigham wrote: >> >> >>> Missing an "of" in the two lines above: >>> put line textLine *of* $TEKST into line cookedLine of fld "COOKED" etc >>> Don't know if that's the problem. >> >> >>> Your script logic seems unnecessarily complex. Since it looks as if only the last occurrence is ending up in the output field, instead of using a counter to keep track of the next line in the field, you could just >>> put cr & line textLine of $TEKST after fld "COOKED" >>> But once again, loading a line into a field repeatedly will be much slower than putting it into a variable in the repeat loop and then putting the variable into the field just once when the repeat is done. Getting or putting something from or into a field is much slower than doing the same in a variable, so just do it once. >>> >>> Also, I can see no reason to be loading your data into system variables, which is what "$WERBS" etc is defining. The only reason to put something into a variable beginning with "$" is if you want some other system process besides LC to be able to access the data. >>> >>> -- Peter >>> >>> >> Well, as per your suggestion I did this: >> >> on mouseUp >> put 1 into textLine >> put fld "WERBS" into WERBS >> put fld "TEKST" into TEKST >> repeat until line textLine of TEKST contains "finalSolution666" >> put textLine into fld "KOUNT" >> put 1 into verbLine >> repeat until line verbLine of WERBS is empty >> put line textLine of TEKST into fld "LYNE" >> put line verbLine of WERBS into WERB >> put "were" && WERB into FRAZE >> put FRAZE into fld "FRAZE" >> if line textLine of TEKST contains FRAZE then >> if fld "COOKED" is empty then >> put line textLine of TEKST after fld "COOKED" >> -- this is here so that line 1 of fld "COOKED" does not end up empty >> else >> put cr & line textLine of TEKST after fld "COOKED" >> end if >> end if >> add 1 to verbLine >> end repeat >> add 1 to textLine >> end repeat >> end mouseUp >> >> but still get only the last value. > Well, your logic still makes my head hurt, too many counters. My logic is based on the belief that one has to keep count of the lines in the Ur-text, the verb list, and the output field. It is also derived from a program I wrote to make concordances in PASCAL in 1985. The idea of using a carriage-return is very useful (haven't actually thought about those since my BA, as typed all my work on an Olivetti portable which my Mum was given by her Mum and Dad for her 21st birthday). > Here's what I'd do, using a variant of my original function since it appears that you want to list the lines the relevant phrases occur in, not just the isolated phrases. Isolated phrases are not much use for subsequent analysis; i.e. to see which collocations they occur in, context, and so on. > > function findWere pText > -- returns a comma-delim list of all the line offsets matching "were *ed" > -- or "were" && . > put fld "WERBS" into pretList > put wordOffsets("were", pText, true) into offList > repeat for each item w in offList > put word w+1 of pText into testWord > if testWord ends with "ed" or testWord is among the words of pretList then > put (the number of lines of word 1 to w of pText) & comma after outList > end if > end repeat > return char 1 to -2 of outList > end if > > then: > > on mouseup > put fld "TEKXT" into tText > put findWere(tText) into linesList > repeat for each item i in linesList > put line i of tText & cr after relevantLines > end repeat > put char 1 to -2 of relevantLines into fld "COOKED" > end mouseup > > Untested, but you get the idea. I do. Thanks. I shall put your code in another button and see what happens. > > -- Peter > > Richmond. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sat Aug 8 17:44:51 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2015 00:44:51 +0300 Subject: Jane Austen's peculiarity In-Reply-To: <3BFB63DF-9FAD-4BEB-AF7F-796137B01179@gmail.com> References: <55C6318B.706@gmail.com> <55C642E7.8060406@gmail.com> <55C65B4E.90009@gmail.com> <55C66BD6.7040503@gmail.com> <3BFB63DF-9FAD-4BEB-AF7F-796137B01179@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55C67853.4010506@gmail.com> on mouseUp put fld "TEKST" into TEKST put fld "WERBS" into WERBS put findWere(TEKST) into linesList repeat for each item i in linesList put line i of TEKST & cr after relevantLines end repeat put char 1 to -2 of relevantLines into fld "COOKED" end mouseUp function findWere pText -- returns a comma-delim list of all the line offsets matching "were *ed" -- or "were" && . put fld "WERBS" into pretList put wordOffsets("were", pText, true) into offList repeat for each item w in offList put word w+1 of pText into testWord if testWord ends with "ed" or testWord is among the words of pretList then put (the number of lines of word 1 to w of pText) & comma after outList end if end repeat return char 1 to -2 of outList end findWere executing at 12:43:43 AM Type Function: error in function handler Object Brigham Line put wordOffsets("were", pText, true) into offList Hint wordOffsets Something either I don't understand (obviously your 'Logic' and my 'Logic' are not sitting well together). Richmond. From brahma at hindu.org Sat Aug 8 18:04:23 2015 From: brahma at hindu.org (Brahmanathaswami) Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2015 12:04:23 -1000 Subject: Local Path for Mobile Message-ID: <55C67CE7.1040902@hindu.org> Complete mobile newbie here... will be coming with my begging bowl out a lot in the days to come. Is this good for mobile also? function localPath put the effective filename of this stack into tPath set the itemdel to "/" delete item -1 of tPath put "/" after tPath return tPath end localPath where we need to reference images, icons, text files and other data.. we can fetch things with set the defaultfolder to (localPath() &"img/icons") put the files BR From rdimolad at evergreeninfo.net Sat Aug 8 18:23:30 2015 From: rdimolad at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2015 18:23:30 -0400 Subject: Local Path for Mobile Message-ID: File in the stack are in "the engine folder" and it's sub folders. This is read only. You can store files in "the documents folder". Check the docs for other folder options.? I have a function "TheEngineFolder" that returns the engine folder on mobile and the location of the included assets when in the IDE. This allows testing using the same code.? Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net
-------- Original message --------
From: Brahmanathaswami
Date:08/08/2015 18:04 (GMT-05:00)
To: How to use LiveCode
Subject: Local Path for Mobile
Complete mobile newbie here... will be coming with my begging bowl out a lot in the days to come. Is this good for mobile also? function localPath put the effective filename of this stack into tPath set the itemdel to "/" delete item -1 of tPath put "/" after tPath return tPath end localPath where we need to reference images, icons, text files and other data.. we can fetch things with set the defaultfolder to (localPath() &"img/icons") put the files BR _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sat Aug 8 18:23:41 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2015 01:23:41 +0300 Subject: Jane Austen's peculiarity In-Reply-To: <3BFB63DF-9FAD-4BEB-AF7F-796137B01179@gmail.com> References: <55C6318B.706@gmail.com> <55C642E7.8060406@gmail.com> <55C65B4E.90009@gmail.com> <55C66BD6.7040503@gmail.com> <3BFB63DF-9FAD-4BEB-AF7F-796137B01179@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55C6816D.60605@gmail.com> Oddly enough this does NOT seem to be a problem with my counters. If I reorder my verbList the stack still only finds text bits with 'found'. Retyping the list (rather than importing it from RTF) the first occurrence of the first verb in the list results. There seems to be a problem with the way LibreOffice encodes RTF, and then another problem inwith my script. However if one imports a text file and says: set the text of fld "TEKST" to URL ("file:" & it) nothing works at all when an analysis is attempted. Richmond. From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Sat Aug 8 18:25:34 2015 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2015 00:25:34 +0200 Subject: LiveCode-bijeenkomst September 2015 / LiveCode Meeting September 2015 Message-ID: *** LiveCode-bijeenkomst September 2015 *** (see below for English version) Het is alweer bijna een jaar geleden, dat we elkaar hebben ontmoet. Het wordt dus de hoogste tijd, dat we elkaar weer eens treffen. Ik heb daarom het plan opgevat na de vakantie weer eens een LiveCode-bijeenkomst te organiseren. Om de interesse te pijlen, wil ik je vragen het volgende vragenformulier in te vullen: https://nl.surveymonkey.com/s/8BZTJGJ Het formulier heeft 10 vragen en duurt slechts enkele minuten. De vragen over Arduino hebben te maken met het feit dat we nu twee of drie mensen hebben die iets met Arduino doen. Wellicht is het interessant om niet alleen een demo te bekijken maar ook zelf aan de slag te gaan in aan Arduino-workshop. Ik wil graag eens kijken of dat mogelijk is. Ik zal over ongeveer twee weken nog eens vragen welke dag jou het beste uitkomt. Op basis daarvan kiezen we een definitieve datum for the bijeenkomst. *** LiveCode Meeting September 2015 *** Our last meeting is almost a year ago. It is time to meet again! I am currently planning to have another LiveCode meeting after summer holidays. To get an indication of how many people may beinterested in a meeting, I'd like to ask you to fill out the following form: https://nl.surveymonkey.com/s/8BZTJGJ The form has 10 questions and takes no more than a few minutes. The questions about Arduino are related to the fact that we have two people dealing with Arduino now. It may be interesting to not only watch a demo but actively participate in an Arduino workshop. I would like to know the potential to organise this. In about two weeks, I will ask you again which day suits you best. We will use that info to choose the definite date for the meeting. -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer KvK: 50277553 Use Color Converter to convert CMYK, RGB, RAL, XYZ, H.Lab and other colour spaces. http://www.color-converter.com We have time for new software development projects. Contact me for a quote. From colinholgate at gmail.com Sat Aug 8 18:29:25 2015 From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2015 18:29:25 -0400 Subject: Local Path for Mobile In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The function Ralph alludes to is specialFolderPath(). From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sat Aug 8 18:41:42 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2015 15:41:42 -0700 Subject: Jane Austen's peculiarity In-Reply-To: <55C67853.4010506@gmail.com> References: <55C67853.4010506@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55C685A6.8090200@fourthworld.com> Richmond wrote: > function findWere pText > -- returns a comma-delim list of all the line offsets matching "were *ed" > -- or "were" && . > put fld "WERBS" into pretList > put wordOffsets("were", pText, true) into offList Unless the build you're using a custom build, wouldn't that be "wordOffset" (singular)? Also, if you're using v7 you might consider "trueWordOffset", which accounts for quote characters and omits punctuation that characterize the historic definition of "word" in xTalks. The Unicode libraries in v7 make many natural-language parsing tasks much simpler - there's even a new "sentence" chunk type. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sat Aug 8 18:51:37 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2015 15:51:37 -0700 Subject: Extracting a reference to a stack In-Reply-To: <14f0d8feb5f-7312-43e84@webprd-a59.mail.aol.com> References: <14f0d8feb5f-7312-43e84@webprd-a59.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: <55C687F9.2000302@fourthworld.com> dunbarx wrote: > Wait just a doggone minute. The long id of a control contains the stack reference. Yep - and being a lazy person this is how I get the stack reference: function ObjectStack pObj return char (offset(" of stack ", pObj)+4) to -1 of pObj end ObjectStack -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From colinholgate at gmail.com Sat Aug 8 18:53:31 2015 From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2015 18:53:31 -0400 Subject: [OT-ish] naming a MeetUp group Message-ID: <5ACFD6EB-19F4-4D85-83E3-1DB806BFE5BC@gmail.com> I attend a programming user group that has gotten more and more quiet over the years. Sometimes nobody shows up! We?ve been wondering whether to change it to be a Meetup group instead, which has the advantages of knowing how many people will come, and some have a pre-pay $5 system, so if nobody shows up, at least the group covered the costs of the meeting. My thought is to make the topic be broader than it is now, and different to other MeetUps that already exist. There are lots of programming and app development meetings, but they all tend to get a bit low level and geeky. Perhaps there would be interest in talking about higher level tools such as LiveCode? In naming a group they encourage you to say where it is, and that it?s a Meetup. Best I can come up with so far is: "NYC High Level Software Development Tools Meetup? Bit wordy, but how else do you describe LiveCode and other tools that are a long way from Java and Objective-C? I might make it be: "NYC High Level Mobile Development Tools Meetup? even if we might cover desktop and browser applications, just because ?mobile? is more popular right now. Any suggestions about the name would be great, thanks. From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sat Aug 8 18:58:53 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2015 15:58:53 -0700 Subject: [OT-ish] naming a MeetUp group In-Reply-To: <5ACFD6EB-19F4-4D85-83E3-1DB806BFE5BC@gmail.com> References: <5ACFD6EB-19F4-4D85-83E3-1DB806BFE5BC@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55C689AD.1070700@fourthworld.com> Colin Holgate wrote: > I attend a programming user group that has gotten more and more quiet > over the years. Sometimes nobody shows up! We?ve been wondering > whether to change it to be a Meetup group instead Yes and double yes! Once our local Linux group opened a Meetup page attendance has steadily grown and the whole planning process is much easier. I'll be putting one together for our SoCal LiveCode group soon. Meetup nailed that task beautifully. > My thought is to make the topic be broader than it is now, and > different to other MeetUps that already exist. There are lots of > programming and app development meetings, but they all tend to get > a bit low level and geeky. Perhaps there would be interest in > talking about higher level tools such as LiveCode? > > In naming a group they encourage you to say where it is, and that > it?s a Meetup. Best I can come up with so far is: > > "NYC High Level Software Development Tools Meetup? > > Bit wordy, but how else do you describe LiveCode and other tools that > are a long way from Java and Objective-C? > > I might make it be: > > "NYC High Level Mobile Development Tools Meetup? > > even if we might cover desktop and browser applications, just because > ?mobile? is more popular right now. > > Any suggestions about the name would be great, thanks. Have you considered something that includes "Rapid App Development" rather than "High Level"? I find that the distinction between high- and low-level languages is most readily appreciated by users of low-level languages. Maybe "Rapid Development" may provide the focus you're looking for, and also give you some wiggle room if you wind up having a presentation about middle-of-the-road languages like Swift now and then. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From colinholgate at gmail.com Sat Aug 8 19:03:47 2015 From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2015 19:03:47 -0400 Subject: [OT-ish] naming a MeetUp group In-Reply-To: <55C689AD.1070700@fourthworld.com> References: <5ACFD6EB-19F4-4D85-83E3-1DB806BFE5BC@gmail.com> <55C689AD.1070700@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <975CDEEF-8507-477C-9FCC-F63C39FA833D@gmail.com> Thanks for the ?Swift? reply! Can you say something about the costs of running a Meetup group? I do think the presentations would range from Swift, Javascript, and TypeScript, at the low end, and not a line of code typed all night presentations at the high end. The target audience would be both coders who are looking for work, and non-coders who get confused at the many coding Meetups. The point is to give the non-coders some hope. From brahma at hindu.org Sat Aug 8 19:04:17 2015 From: brahma at hindu.org (Brahmanathaswami) Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2015 13:04:17 -1000 Subject: Emulate thumb drag on desktop Message-ID: <55C68AF1.4090803@hindu.org> To scroll a field on mobile I'm going to try this: on createQuoteScroller local tScrollerRect,tContentRect,sScrollerID if environment() is not "mobile" then exit createQuoteScroller mobileControlCreate "scroller", "quoteScroller" put the result into sScrollerID put the rect of fld "quote" into tScrollerRect put the topleft of fld "scrollMe" & "," & the right of fld "scrollme"&","&( the top of fld "scrollme" + the formattedHeight of fld "scrollme") into tContentRect mobileControlSet "quoteScroller", "rect", tScrollerRect mobileControlSet "quoteScroller", "contentRect", tContentRect mobileControlSet "quoteScroller", "visible", true mobileControlSet "quoteScroller", "scrollingEnabled", true mobileControlSet "quoteScroller", "vIndicator", true mobileControlSet "quoteScroller", "vscroll", 0 end createQuoteScroller on scrollerDidScroll hOffset, vOffset // When the user scrolls move the displayed content set the vScroll of fld "quote" to vOffset end scrollerDidScroll but how do we emulate this with the mouse? on mouseMove end mouseMove would seem to be our best tool but how to translate the mouseloc into vScroll of the field? on mouseMove put the mouseloc end mouseMove have to sleep on that one... but perhaps someone else already build this... BR From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Sat Aug 8 19:07:52 2015 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2015 19:07:52 -0400 Subject: Local Path for Mobile In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001301d0d22f$0dd98740$298c95c0$@net> The specialFolderPath() has many more options. I later versions (post 5.5?) there are 2 short cuts also. These folders are common for both mobile platforms. IOS has a few more. specialFolderPath("engine") = the engine folder. specialFolderPath("documents") = the documents folder. specialFolderPath("cache") = No equivalent. specialFolderPath("resources") = No equivalent. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Colin Holgate Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2015 6:29 PM To: How to use LiveCode Subject: Re: Local Path for Mobile The function Ralph alludes to is specialFolderPath(). _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bonnmike at gmail.com Sat Aug 8 19:14:30 2015 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2015 17:14:30 -0600 Subject: Emulate thumb drag on desktop In-Reply-To: <55C68AF1.4090803@hindu.org> References: <55C68AF1.4090803@hindu.org> Message-ID: To do it with this method, the traversal of the field needs to be off. (though this can probably be worked around) Put this script into the field. local sMouseLoc on mouseDown put the mouseloc into sMouseLoc setScroll end mouseDown on setScroll if the mouse is down then lock screen if item 1 of sMouseLoc > item 1 of the mouseloc then set the hscroll of me to the hscroll of me - (item 1 of the mouseloc - item 1 of sMouseLoc) else set the hscroll of me to the hscroll of me + (item 1 of sMouseLoc - item 1 of the mouseloc) end if if item 2 of sMouseLoc > item 2 of the mouseloc then set the vscroll of me to the vscroll of me - (item 2 of the mouseloc - item 2 of sMouseLoc) else set the vscroll of me to the vscroll of me + (item 2 of sMouseLoc - item 2 of the mouseloc) end if put the mouseloc into sMouseLoc send setScroll to me in 50 millisec unlock screen else put empty into sMouseLoc end if end setScroll On Sat, Aug 8, 2015 at 5:04 PM, Brahmanathaswami wrote: > To scroll a field on mobile I'm going to try this: > > on createQuoteScroller > local tScrollerRect,tContentRect,sScrollerID > if environment() is not "mobile" then exit createQuoteScroller > mobileControlCreate "scroller", "quoteScroller" > put the result into sScrollerID > put the rect of fld "quote" into tScrollerRect > put the topleft of fld "scrollMe" & "," & the right of fld > "scrollme"&","&( the top of fld "scrollme" + the formattedHeight of fld > "scrollme") into tContentRect > mobileControlSet "quoteScroller", "rect", tScrollerRect > mobileControlSet "quoteScroller", "contentRect", tContentRect > mobileControlSet "quoteScroller", "visible", true > mobileControlSet "quoteScroller", "scrollingEnabled", true > mobileControlSet "quoteScroller", "vIndicator", true > mobileControlSet "quoteScroller", "vscroll", 0 > end createQuoteScroller > > on scrollerDidScroll hOffset, vOffset > // When the user scrolls move the displayed content > set the vScroll of fld "quote" to vOffset > end scrollerDidScroll > > but how do we emulate this with the mouse? > > on mouseMove > > end mouseMove > > would seem to be our best tool > > but how to translate the mouseloc into vScroll of the field? > > on mouseMove > put the mouseloc > end mouseMove > > have to sleep on that one... but perhaps someone else already build this... > > BR > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From david at viral.academy Sat Aug 8 19:20:16 2015 From: david at viral.academy (David Bovill) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2015 00:20:16 +0100 Subject: Extracting a reference to a stack In-Reply-To: <55C687F9.2000302@fourthworld.com> References: <14f0d8feb5f-7312-43e84@webprd-a59.mail.aol.com> <55C687F9.2000302@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Wow - lot's of cool examples. Richards is one of the shortest - but breaks theoretically if a stack is named weirdly. Thierry gets the nerdy award, and mark for digging up the new offset feature (which I think is the feature I remember). By the way one of the most puzzling aspects of software conventions is to publish your documentation as pdf's - presumably so you can print the things. Can we not have the Livecode release notes published as searchable HTML - or has someone rescued this valuable archive from this historical lunacy already? As in do I really have to manually read through all these pdf's to find this feature documented, or perhaps import them to Evernote, or.... Back to the mission of perfecting the stack_Object of a control - I seem to remember it had something to do with tokens or a newer equivalent - combining that with Marks remembrance we have: put the long name of control "this is a stack of rubbish" into > someControl > set the wholematches to true > put word (wordOffset ("stack", someControl)) to -1 of someControl > the new feature is tokenoffset - but it does not seem to work. wordofffset will do the job as it ignores anything that is quoted (this surprised me). On 8 August 2015 at 23:51, Richard Gaskin wrote: > dunbarx wrote: > > Wait just a doggone minute. The long id of a control contains the stack >> reference. >> > > Yep - and being a lazy person this is how I get the stack reference: > > function ObjectStack pObj > return char (offset(" of stack ", pObj)+4) to -1 of pObj > end ObjectStack > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From th.douez at gmail.com Sat Aug 8 19:29:34 2015 From: th.douez at gmail.com (Thierry Douez) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2015 01:29:34 +0200 Subject: Extracting a reference to a stack In-Reply-To: <55C687F9.2000302@fourthworld.com> References: <14f0d8feb5f-7312-43e84@webprd-a59.mail.aol.com> <55C687F9.2000302@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: > Yep - and being a lazy person this is how I get the stack reference: > > function ObjectStack pObj > return char (offset(" of stack ", pObj)+4) to -1 of pObj > end ObjectStack > Not always beneficial to be lazy :) I tried your code with the long ID I gave previously without success. Regards, Thierry ------------------------------------------------ Thierry Douez - http://sunny-tdz.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sat Aug 8 19:39:20 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2015 16:39:20 -0700 Subject: [OT-ish] naming a MeetUp group In-Reply-To: <975CDEEF-8507-477C-9FCC-F63C39FA833D@gmail.com> References: <975CDEEF-8507-477C-9FCC-F63C39FA833D@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55C69328.2030404@fourthworld.com> Colin Holgate wrote: > Can you say something about the costs of running a Meetup group? It's not cheap but affordable, and worth every penny. Meetup.com has become the go-to place folks use the most when looking for events like yours. In our Linux group we took up a collection among members and got enough in one meeting to cover the costs for two years. > The point is to give the non-coders some hope. You may enjoy this: Steve Blank: Why Founders Should Learn How To Code Coding, he says, is the backbone of any mobile startup LiveCode is the perfect answer for everything that article describes, allowing people with domain expertise to put that knowledge into action. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From alex at tweedly.net Sat Aug 8 19:44:36 2015 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2015 00:44:36 +0100 Subject: Jane Austen's peculiarity In-Reply-To: <42CB666E-3384-43D3-9526-4EC72F55093E@aol.com> References: <55C6318B.706@gmail.com> <42CB666E-3384-43D3-9526-4EC72F55093E@aol.com> Message-ID: <55C69464.9040700@tweedly.net> I think I'd agree that a conditional clause should be equired (could it be any of 'if', 'unless', 'whether', ...)? Otherwise, you'd be finding false positives like: I gave two shillings to my brother and last night they _were returned_ to me. -- Alex. On 08/08/2015 20:56, Paul Looney wrote: > Richmond, > > The key here is the ?if? - which creates a conditional clause - which requires the past plural of the verb (in this case ?were?). This is similar to the ?wenn" clause in German (Deutsch) and the ?ut? clause in Latin. > If I were able, I?d thank you in person for mentioning this. > > Paul Looney > >> On Aug 8, 2015, at 9:42 AM, Richmond wrote: >> >> Jane Austen [amongst others] uses an interesting type of grammatical construction of this sort: >> >> After breakfast, the girls walked to Meryton to inquire if Mr. Wickham >> _were returned_, and to lament over his absence from the Netherfield ball. >> >> Pride and Prejudice. >> >> I would like to analyse a million word corpus that I have been granted access to for this type of construction. >> >> However, I don't want to find examples of only 'were returned', but all examples of >> >> were + infinitive / preterite / past participle >> >> and, presumably for that I shall have to use wildcards . . . >> >> OR ??? >> >> Richmond. >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From colinholgate at gmail.com Sat Aug 8 19:45:32 2015 From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2015 19:45:32 -0400 Subject: [OT-ish] naming a MeetUp group In-Reply-To: <55C69328.2030404@fourthworld.com> References: <975CDEEF-8507-477C-9FCC-F63C39FA833D@gmail.com> <55C69328.2030404@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: I progressed with the Meetup page. I settled on: NYC High Level App Development Tools Meetup that covers desktop and mobile. I didn?t go for rapid development because apps take a long time to develop, even if the coding part is made easier. It?s generally not rapid. I can?t see how to edit my description, and now that I see the mock up page, the description doesn?t all fit. Here?s what I wrote: "Objective-C and Java are scary! Even Swift needs a deep understanding of how Xcode works. But, life doesn't have to be like that. There are several authoring tools that can develop apps using graphics to achieve a lot of the needs, and more understandable programming languages to do the coding. If you ever go to Meetups because you have an idea for an app, but you find yourself being completely confused by the technicalities of the presentation, you should come to this Meetup instead!? The ?n? of ?presentation? is where it gets cut off. The costs are $10 if you expect 50 members and four organizers, or $15 for unlimited. Clearly unlimited is the better deal, if you?re an optimist. From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat Aug 8 19:54:41 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2015 18:54:41 -0500 Subject: Extracting a reference to a stack In-Reply-To: References: <14f0d8feb5f-7312-43e84@webprd-a59.mail.aol.com> <55C687F9.2000302@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <55C696C1.8000503@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/8/2015 6:20 PM, David Bovill wrote: > the new offset feature (which I think is the > feature I remember). The offset feature hasn't changed, but you may be thinking of the itemDelimiter, which in LC 7 can be more than one character. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sat Aug 8 19:59:49 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2015 16:59:49 -0700 Subject: Extracting a reference to a stack In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55C697F5.3060009@fourthworld.com> Thierry Douez wrote: >> Yep - and being a lazy person this is how I get the stack reference: >> >> function ObjectStack pObj >> return char (offset(" of stack ", pObj)+4) to -1 of pObj >> end ObjectStack > > Not always beneficial to be lazy :) > > I tried your code with the long ID I gave previously > without success. Which one? I found this one in a message from you earlier today: -- button id 1003 of card id 1002 of stack "stack 2" -- of stack "/Users/t/Desktop/stack.livecode" When I pass that to the function shown above I get: stack "stack 2" of stack "/Users/t/Desktop/stack.livecode" What did you get? Or was there another object long ID in this thread I'd missed? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From david at viral.academy Sat Aug 8 20:25:57 2015 From: david at viral.academy (David Bovill) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2015 01:25:57 +0100 Subject: Extracting a reference to a stack In-Reply-To: <55C697F5.3060009@fourthworld.com> References: <55C697F5.3060009@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: The test case would be "this is a stack of rubish" as a substack - that would break your code? On 9 August 2015 at 00:59, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Thierry Douez wrote: > > >> Yep - and being a lazy person this is how I get the stack reference: > >> > >> function ObjectStack pObj > >> return char (offset(" of stack ", pObj)+4) to -1 of pObj > >> end ObjectStack > > > > Not always beneficial to be lazy :) > > > > I tried your code with the long ID I gave previously > > without success. > > Which one? > > I found this one in a message from you earlier today: > -- button id 1003 of card id 1002 of stack "stack 2" > -- of stack "/Users/t/Desktop/stack.livecode" > > > When I pass that to the function shown above I get: > > stack "stack 2" of stack "/Users/t/Desktop/stack.livecode" > > What did you get? > > Or was there another object long ID in this thread I'd missed? > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From david at viral.academy Sat Aug 8 20:30:13 2015 From: david at viral.academy (David Bovill) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2015 01:30:13 +0100 Subject: Making a browser smaller Message-ID: I've a web site that I want to make smaller in Livecode. In Chrome or Firefox I can shrink the browser view using Zoom In / Zoom Out. In Livecode we have "revBrowserMakeTextSmaller" - but this only shrinks the text. Any CSS or other tricks to zoom / shrink an entire web site? I guess not - just hoping :) From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sat Aug 8 20:37:24 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2015 17:37:24 -0700 Subject: Extracting a reference to a stack In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55C6A0C4.6050507@fourthworld.com> David Bovill wrote: > Richard Gaskin wrote: > >> function ObjectStack pObj > >> return char (offset(" of stack ", pObj)+4) to -1 of pObj > >> end ObjectStack > > The test case would be "this is a stack of rubish" as a substack - > that would break your code? It would have to be "this is a of stack of rubbish" - but even then it wouldn't break since the long ID of the object would be: button id 1003 of card id 1002 of stack "this is of stack of rubbish" of stack "/Users/t/Desktop/stack.livecode" ...in which the first occurrence of " of stack " is the one we want. We could break it by changing the use case: instead of requiring long IDs (I rarely anything else) we might pass in a long name, in which a button might have a name that includes " of stack ". But as soon as we allow other forms of object references to be passed in we're probably going to want to convert those to long IDs anyway. And since we can't guarantee the object reference is valid we'd probably need to add a try structure there as well: function ObjectStack pObj try put the long id of pObj into pObj catch tErr throw "Error in call to ObjectStack: invalid object reference" end try return char (offset(" of stack ", pObj)+4) to -1 of pObj end ObjectStack Any other edge cases that should be accounted for? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From david at viral.academy Sat Aug 8 20:43:50 2015 From: david at viral.academy (David Bovill) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2015 01:43:50 +0100 Subject: Extracting a reference to a stack In-Reply-To: <55C6A0C4.6050507@fourthworld.com> References: <55C6A0C4.6050507@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Yes - you're right. The long name is the only case and like you I only use long ids in the use cases I have. Except when I store references when I use the ruggedID handler of the IDE - that should be a native reference I think? On Sunday, August 9, 2015, Richard Gaskin wrote: > David Bovill wrote: > > > Richard Gaskin wrote: > > >> function ObjectStack pObj > > >> return char (offset(" of stack ", pObj)+4) to -1 of pObj > > >> end ObjectStack > > > > The test case would be "this is a stack of rubish" as a substack - > > that would break your code? > > It would have to be "this is a of stack of rubbish" - but even then it > wouldn't break since the long ID of the object would be: > > button id 1003 of card id 1002 of stack "this is of stack of rubbish" > of stack "/Users/t/Desktop/stack.livecode" > > ...in which the first occurrence of " of stack " is the one we want. > > We could break it by changing the use case: instead of requiring long IDs > (I rarely anything else) we might pass in a long name, in which a button > might have a name that includes " of stack ". > > But as soon as we allow other forms of object references to be passed in > we're probably going to want to convert those to long IDs anyway. And > since we can't guarantee the object reference is valid we'd probably need > to add a try structure there as well: > > function ObjectStack pObj > try > put the long id of pObj into pObj > catch tErr > throw "Error in call to ObjectStack: invalid object reference" > end try > return char (offset(" of stack ", pObj)+4) to -1 of pObj > end ObjectStack > > Any other edge cases that should be accounted for? > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sat Aug 8 21:03:37 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2015 18:03:37 -0700 Subject: Extracting a reference to a stack In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55C6A6E9.8040604@fourthworld.com> David Bovill wrote: > Yes - you're right. The long name is the only case and like you I > only use long ids in the use cases I have. Except when I store > references when I use the ruggedID handler of the IDE - that should > be a native reference I think? It would be nice to have an engine version of revRuggedID, or for that function definition to just be moved from revbackscriptlibrary to revcommonlibrary, since the latter is copied into every standalone so everyone would have it everywhere. In fact, since both of those libraries are now text-only stacks, anyone sufficiently motivated could make the move and submit a pull request in github. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From brahma at hindu.org Sat Aug 8 22:14:58 2015 From: brahma at hindu.org (Brahmanathaswami) Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2015 16:14:58 -1000 Subject: Visual Effects on Mobile Message-ID: <55C6B7A2.5060002@hindu.org> The only visual effect I really think works in most scenarios is dissolve at least for my use case... having things flip, or move wipe down etc... all very distracting. but the Dictionary indicates that only scroll and reveal work on iOS and Android. But I have seen apps in iOS that have many other transitions. And Android also has a robust transition API https://developer.android.com/reference/android/transition/TransitionValues.html Are scroll and reveal *really* the only two available to us via Livecode? BR From brahma at hindu.org Sat Aug 8 22:16:27 2015 From: brahma at hindu.org (Brahmanathaswami) Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2015 16:16:27 -1000 Subject: Local Path for Mobile In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55C6B7FB.1000904@hindu.org> Can you share that function? i could guess what it is... but why re-invent the wheel? Ralph DiMola wrote: > I have a function "TheEngineFolder" that returns the engine folder on mobile and the location of the included assets when in the IDE. This allows testing using the same code. From scott at tactilemedia.com Sat Aug 8 22:32:28 2015 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2015 19:32:28 -0700 Subject: Visual Effects on Mobile In-Reply-To: <55C6B7A2.5060002@hindu.org> References: <55C6B7A2.5060002@hindu.org> Message-ID: I believe curl and flip are the only visual effects that are exclusive to mobile (iOS only?), while the others should work. I know for a fact that push and wipe work fine, as I use these in mobile stacks, combined with limiting transitions to defined rects: lock screen for visual effect in rect (rect of grc 1) It would be easy enough for you to create a basic test stack and run it in the simulator or on a device. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design On 8/8/15, 7:14 PM, "Brahmanathaswami" wrote: >The only visual effect I really think works in most scenarios is >dissolve at least for my use case... having things flip, or move wipe >down etc... all very distracting. > >but the Dictionary indicates that only scroll and reveal work on iOS and >Android. > >But I have seen apps in iOS that have many other transitions. And >Android also has a robust transition API > >https://developer.android.com/reference/android/transition/TransitionValue >s.html > >Are scroll and reveal *really* the only two available to us via Livecode? > >BR > >_______________________________________________ >use-livecode mailing list >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From pmbrig at gmail.com Sat Aug 8 22:32:38 2015 From: pmbrig at gmail.com (Peter M. Brigham) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2015 22:32:38 -0400 Subject: Jane Austen's peculiarity In-Reply-To: <55C685A6.8090200@fourthworld.com> References: <55C67853.4010506@gmail.com> <55C685A6.8090200@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <9F04FFE2-44D4-4B83-8D98-B8D83AD7C2CF@gmail.com> On Aug 8, 2015, at 6:41 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Richmond wrote: > >> function findWere pText >> -- returns a comma-delim list of all the line offsets matching "were *ed" >> -- or "were" && . >> put fld "WERBS" into pretList >> put wordOffsets("were", pText, true) into offList > > Unless the build you're using a custom build, wouldn't that be "wordOffset" (singular)? I included the utility functions wordOffsets() and offsets() in one of my previous posts. I probably should have repeated them. I use them a lot -- there are many contexts in which they are useful. function wordOffsets str, pContainer, matchWhole -- returns a comma-delimited list of all the wordOffsets of str in pContainer -- if matchWhole = true then only whole words are located -- else will find word matches everywhere str is part of a word in pContainer -- note that in LC words will include adjacent puncutation, -- so using matchWhole = true may exclude too many "words" -- duplicates are stripped out -- eg wordOffsets("co","the common coconut") = 2,3 not 2,3,3 -- note: to get the last wordOffset of a string in a container (often useful) -- use "item -1 of wordOffsets(...)" -- by Peter M. Brigham, pmbrig at gmail.com ? freeware -- requires offsets() if matchWhole = empty then put false into matchWhole put offsets(str,pContainer) into offList if offList = 0 then return 0 repeat for each item i in offList put the number of words of (char 1 to i of pContainer) into wdNbr if matchWhole then if word wdNbr of pContainer <> str then next repeat end if put 1 into A[wdNbr] -- using an array avoids duplicates end repeat put the keys of A into wordList sort lines of wordList ascending numeric replace cr with comma in wordList return wordList end wordOffsets function offsets str, pContainer -- returns a comma-delimited list of all the offsets of str in pContainer -- returns 0 if not found -- note: offsets("xx","xxxxxx") returns "1,3,5" not "1,2,3,4,5" -- ie, overlapping offsets are not counted -- note: to get the last occurrence of a string in a container (often useful) -- use "item -1 of offsets(...)" -- by Peter M. Brigham, pmbrig at gmail.com ? freeware if str is not in pContainer then return 0 put 0 into startPoint repeat put offset(str,pContainer,startPoint) into thisOffset if thisOffset = 0 then exit repeat add thisOffset to startPoint put startPoint & comma after offsetList add length(str)-1 to startPoint end repeat return item 1 to -1 of offsetList -- delete trailing comma end offsets > Also, if you're using v7 you might consider "trueWordOffset", which accounts for quote characters and omits punctuation that characterize the historic definition of "word" in xTalks. > > The Unicode libraries in v7 make many natural-language parsing tasks much simpler - there's even a new "sentence" chunk type. Yes, with newer versions the engine now does stuff that required scripted functions in earlier LC versions. I'm still not using later versions because my work stacks don't run in them properly, so I have all these utility functions in my library. -- Peter Peter M. Brigham pmbrig at gmail.com http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig From pmbrig at gmail.com Sat Aug 8 22:35:41 2015 From: pmbrig at gmail.com (Peter M. Brigham) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2015 22:35:41 -0400 Subject: Jane Austen's peculiarity In-Reply-To: <55C67853.4010506@gmail.com> References: <55C6318B.706@gmail.com> <55C642E7.8060406@gmail.com> <55C65B4E.90009@gmail.com> <55C66BD6.7040503@gmail.com> <3BFB63DF-9FAD-4BEB-AF7F-796137B01179@gmail.com> <55C67853.4010506@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Aug 8, 2015, at 5:44 PM, Richmond wrote: > executing at 12:43:43 AM > Type Function: error in function handler > Object Brigham > Line put wordOffsets("were", pText, true) into offList > Hint wordOffsets Probably you didn't include the wordOffsets() handler from my post earlier today. Try it again with the utility functions available. See the post I sent 5 minutes ago. -- Peter Peter M. Brigham pmbrig at gmail.com http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig From dunbarx at aol.com Sun Aug 9 00:34:42 2015 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx at aol.com) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2015 00:34:42 -0400 Subject: Emulate thumb drag on desktop In-Reply-To: <55C68AF1.4090803@hindu.org> References: <55C68AF1.4090803@hindu.org> Message-ID: <14f10bd41bd-7312-45960@webprd-a59.mail.aol.com> Hi. Are you asking if there is a way to make the scroll of a field track the mouseLoc? If so, then you are right to use the "mouseMove" message, and scale the y-value of its included parameter to the vScroll of the field. Or am I missing it? Craig Newman -----Original Message----- From: Brahmanathaswami To: How to use LiveCode Sent: Sat, Aug 8, 2015 7:04 pm Subject: Emulate thumb drag on desktop To scroll a field on mobile I'm going to try this: on createQuoteScroller local tScrollerRect,tContentRect,sScrollerID if environment() is not "mobile" then exit createQuoteScroller mobileControlCreate "scroller", "quoteScroller" put the result into sScrollerID put the rect of fld "quote" into tScrollerRect put the topleft of fld "scrollMe" & "," & the right of fld "scrollme"&","&( the top of fld "scrollme" + the formattedHeight of fld "scrollme") into tContentRect mobileControlSet "quoteScroller", "rect", tScrollerRect mobileControlSet "quoteScroller", "contentRect", tContentRect mobileControlSet "quoteScroller", "visible", true mobileControlSet "quoteScroller", "scrollingEnabled", true mobileControlSet "quoteScroller", "vIndicator", true mobileControlSet "quoteScroller", "vscroll", 0 end createQuoteScroller on scrollerDidScroll hOffset, vOffset // When the user scrolls move the displayed content set the vScroll of fld "quote" to vOffset end scrollerDidScroll but how do we emulate this with the mouse? on mouseMove end mouseMove would seem to be our best tool but how to translate the mouseloc into vScroll of the field? on mouseMove put the mouseloc end mouseMove have to sleep on that one... but perhaps someone else already build this... BR _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From scott at tactilemedia.com Sun Aug 9 00:56:11 2015 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2015 21:56:11 -0700 Subject: Reliable Custom Window Dragging in LC7? Message-ID: Hi All: Is anyone still making custom-shaped stacks out there that use scripts to manage window dragging? I've noticed for some time now that custom window drag routines which used to work in all past versions of LiveCode now seem to be ineffective in LC7. For example, if you have a couple of stacks with custom windowShapes and click/drag to reposition them, it takes LiveCode several cycles to make the window active and catch up with the cursor position. And when the stack finally starts moving, it's position is way off from where the click first occurred on the stack. To work around this problem, I figured out a new dragging routine that seems to work pretty reliably, but it relies on some tactics that have been discouraged in the past, such tracking the screenMouseLoc and polling the mouse state. Here's the script I'm using (applied using a behavior): local mLoc before mouseDown trackDrag end mouseDown command trackDrag repeat while the mouse is "down" put the screenMouseLoc into SML set topLeft of this stack to item 1 of SML - item 1 of mLoc,\ item 2 of SML - item 2 of mLoc end repeat end trackDrag before mouseMove X,Y put X,Y into mLoc pass mouseMove end mouseMove I know there aren't a ton of people building stacks with custom windowShapes and appearances out there. And while the above has been working for me for a while now, I'm still curious if anyone else has run into this and come up with an alternate solution. Thanks & Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design From bonnmike at gmail.com Sun Aug 9 01:47:56 2015 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2015 23:47:56 -0600 Subject: Extracting a reference to a stack In-Reply-To: <55C6A6E9.8040604@fourthworld.com> References: <55C6A6E9.8040604@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: This may not do things in the required way, but.. If you have a library stack with a function or command that just grabs the name of "this stack" then you can dispatch or send the request to the object and POOF it'll tell you what stack its on, no parsing necessary. Just tried it here, and it works fine. On Sat, Aug 8, 2015 at 7:03 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > David Bovill wrote: > > > Yes - you're right. The long name is the only case and like you I > > only use long ids in the use cases I have. Except when I store > > references when I use the ruggedID handler of the IDE - that should > > be a native reference I think? > > It would be nice to have an engine version of revRuggedID, or for that > function definition to just be moved from revbackscriptlibrary to > revcommonlibrary, since the latter is copied into every standalone so > everyone would have it everywhere. > > In fact, since both of those libraries are now text-only stacks, anyone > sufficiently motivated could make the move and submit a pull request in > github. > > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From bonnmike at gmail.com Sun Aug 9 02:24:30 2015 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2015 00:24:30 -0600 Subject: Reliable Custom Window Dragging in LC7? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Just tried it here, this old script seems to work fine for me 7.0.6.. http://lessons.runrev.com/m/4071/l/6867-how-to-make-a-stack-with-a-window-shape <-- source Sorry if you've already tried this method. *local* sgDragging, sgLeftOffset, sgTopOffset *on* mouseDown *put* item 1 of the mouseLoc into sgLeftOffset *put* item 2 of the mouseLoc into sgTopOffset *put* true into sgDragging *end* mouseDown *on* mouseMove *lock* screen *if* sgDragging is true *then* *set* the left of this stack to item 1 of globalloc(the mouseLoc) - sgLeftOffset *set* the top of this stack to item 2 of globalloc(the mouseLoc) - sgTopOffset *end* *if* *unlock* screen *end* mouseMove *on* mouseRelease *put* false into sgDragging *end* mouseRelease *on* mouseUp *put* false into sgDragging *end* mouseUp On Sat, Aug 8, 2015 at 10:56 PM, Scott Rossi wrote: > Hi All: > > Is anyone still making custom-shaped stacks out there that use scripts to > manage window dragging? > > I've noticed for some time now that custom window drag routines which used > to work in all past versions of LiveCode now seem to be ineffective in > LC7. For example, if you have a couple of stacks with custom windowShapes > and click/drag to reposition them, it takes LiveCode several cycles to > make the window active and catch up with the cursor position. And when > the stack finally starts moving, it's position is way off from where the > click first occurred on the stack. > > To work around this problem, I figured out a new dragging routine that > seems to work pretty reliably, but it relies on some tactics that have > been discouraged in the past, such tracking the screenMouseLoc and polling > the mouse state. Here's the script I'm using (applied using a behavior): > > local mLoc > > before mouseDown > trackDrag > end mouseDown > > command trackDrag > repeat while the mouse is "down" > put the screenMouseLoc into SML > set topLeft of this stack to item 1 of SML - item 1 of mLoc,\ > item 2 of SML - item 2 of mLoc > end repeat > end trackDrag > > before mouseMove X,Y > put X,Y into mLoc > pass mouseMove > end mouseMove > > > > I know there aren't a ton of people building stacks with custom > windowShapes and appearances out there. And while the above has been > working for me for a while now, I'm still curious if anyone else has run > into this and come up with an alternate solution. > > > Thanks & Regards, > > Scott Rossi > Creative Director > Tactile Media, UX/UI Design > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From bonnmike at gmail.com Sun Aug 9 02:43:30 2015 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2015 00:43:30 -0600 Subject: Extracting a reference to a stack In-Reply-To: References: <55C6A6E9.8040604@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Ok. Better way. Use a virtual getprop in a library stack getprop owningstack return (the name of this stack) end owningstack Then if you have the long id of an object you can do this.. get the owningstack of myLongId and "it" will contain the stackname. (should also work inserted into front, right?) On Sat, Aug 8, 2015 at 11:47 PM, Mike Bonner wrote: > This may not do things in the required way, but.. If you have a library > stack with a function or command that just grabs the name of "this stack" > then you can dispatch or send the request to the object and POOF it'll tell > you what stack its on, no parsing necessary. > > Just tried it here, and it works fine. > > On Sat, Aug 8, 2015 at 7:03 PM, Richard Gaskin > wrote: > >> David Bovill wrote: >> >> > Yes - you're right. The long name is the only case and like you I >> > only use long ids in the use cases I have. Except when I store >> > references when I use the ruggedID handler of the IDE - that should >> > be a native reference I think? >> >> It would be nice to have an engine version of revRuggedID, or for that >> function definition to just be moved from revbackscriptlibrary to >> revcommonlibrary, since the latter is copied into every standalone so >> everyone would have it everywhere. >> >> In fact, since both of those libraries are now text-only stacks, anyone >> sufficiently motivated could make the move and submit a pull request in >> github. >> >> >> -- >> Richard Gaskin >> Fourth World Systems >> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web >> ____________________________________________________________________ >> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > From scott at tactilemedia.com Sun Aug 9 02:45:41 2015 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2015 23:45:41 -0700 Subject: Reliable Custom Window Dragging in LC7? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes, dragging can work by itself. But create a new untitled stack in the IDE. Click between between the new stack and the windowShaped stack and drag them around. Over here, when clicking on the windowShaped stack after the standard stack, there is a delay while the window becomes active, and then dragging is thrown way off, depending on how fast you drag. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design On 8/8/15, 11:24 PM, "Mike Bonner" wrote: >Just tried it here, this old script seems to work fine for me 7.0.6.. > >http://lessons.runrev.com/m/4071/l/6867-how-to-make-a-stack-with-a-window- >shape ><-- source > >Sorry if you've already tried this method. > >*local* sgDragging, sgLeftOffset, sgTopOffset > >*on* mouseDown > *put* item 1 of the mouseLoc into sgLeftOffset > *put* item 2 of the mouseLoc into sgTopOffset > *put* true into sgDragging >*end* mouseDown > >*on* mouseMove > *lock* screen > *if* sgDragging is true *then* > *set* the left of this stack to item 1 of globalloc(the mouseLoc) >- >sgLeftOffset > > *set* the top of this stack to item 2 of globalloc(the mouseLoc) - >sgTopOffset > *end* *if* > *unlock* screen >*end* mouseMove > >*on* mouseRelease > *put* false into sgDragging >*end* mouseRelease > >*on* mouseUp > *put* false into sgDragging >*end* mouseUp > >On Sat, Aug 8, 2015 at 10:56 PM, Scott Rossi >wrote: > >> Hi All: >> >> Is anyone still making custom-shaped stacks out there that use scripts >>to >> manage window dragging? >> >> I've noticed for some time now that custom window drag routines which >>used >> to work in all past versions of LiveCode now seem to be ineffective in >> LC7. For example, if you have a couple of stacks with custom >>windowShapes >> and click/drag to reposition them, it takes LiveCode several cycles to >> make the window active and catch up with the cursor position. And when >> the stack finally starts moving, it's position is way off from where the >> click first occurred on the stack. >> >> To work around this problem, I figured out a new dragging routine that >> seems to work pretty reliably, but it relies on some tactics that have >> been discouraged in the past, such tracking the screenMouseLoc and >>polling >> the mouse state. Here's the script I'm using (applied using a >>behavior): >> >> local mLoc >> >> before mouseDown >> trackDrag >> end mouseDown >> >> command trackDrag >> repeat while the mouse is "down" >> put the screenMouseLoc into SML >> set topLeft of this stack to item 1 of SML - item 1 of mLoc,\ >> item 2 of SML - item 2 of mLoc >> end repeat >> end trackDrag >> >> before mouseMove X,Y >> put X,Y into mLoc >> pass mouseMove >> end mouseMove >> >> >> >> I know there aren't a ton of people building stacks with custom >> windowShapes and appearances out there. And while the above has been >> working for me for a while now, I'm still curious if anyone else has run >> into this and come up with an alternate solution. >> >> >> Thanks & Regards, >> >> Scott Rossi >> Creative Director >> Tactile Media, UX/UI Design >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >_______________________________________________ >use-livecode mailing list >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bonnmike at gmail.com Sun Aug 9 02:50:18 2015 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2015 00:50:18 -0600 Subject: Reliable Custom Window Dragging in LC7? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ah, I see what you mean. If I stumble onto something that works reliably i'll post, but its not likely. On Sun, Aug 9, 2015 at 12:45 AM, Scott Rossi wrote: > Yes, dragging can work by itself. > > But create a new untitled stack in the IDE. Click between between the new > stack and the windowShaped stack and drag them around. Over here, when > clicking on the windowShaped stack after the standard stack, there is a > delay while the window becomes active, and then dragging is thrown way > off, depending on how fast you drag. > > Regards, > > Scott Rossi > Creative Director > Tactile Media, UX/UI Design > > > > > On 8/8/15, 11:24 PM, "Mike Bonner" wrote: > > >Just tried it here, this old script seems to work fine for me 7.0.6.. > > > > > http://lessons.runrev.com/m/4071/l/6867-how-to-make-a-stack-with-a-window- > >shape > ><-- source > > > >Sorry if you've already tried this method. > > > >*local* sgDragging, sgLeftOffset, sgTopOffset > > > >*on* mouseDown > > *put* item 1 of the mouseLoc into sgLeftOffset > > *put* item 2 of the mouseLoc into sgTopOffset > > *put* true into sgDragging > >*end* mouseDown > > > >*on* mouseMove > > *lock* screen > > *if* sgDragging is true *then* > > *set* the left of this stack to item 1 of globalloc(the mouseLoc) > >- > >sgLeftOffset > > > > *set* the top of this stack to item 2 of globalloc(the mouseLoc) - > >sgTopOffset > > *end* *if* > > *unlock* screen > >*end* mouseMove > > > >*on* mouseRelease > > *put* false into sgDragging > >*end* mouseRelease > > > >*on* mouseUp > > *put* false into sgDragging > >*end* mouseUp > > > >On Sat, Aug 8, 2015 at 10:56 PM, Scott Rossi > >wrote: > > > >> Hi All: > >> > >> Is anyone still making custom-shaped stacks out there that use scripts > >>to > >> manage window dragging? > >> > >> I've noticed for some time now that custom window drag routines which > >>used > >> to work in all past versions of LiveCode now seem to be ineffective in > >> LC7. For example, if you have a couple of stacks with custom > >>windowShapes > >> and click/drag to reposition them, it takes LiveCode several cycles to > >> make the window active and catch up with the cursor position. And when > >> the stack finally starts moving, it's position is way off from where the > >> click first occurred on the stack. > >> > >> To work around this problem, I figured out a new dragging routine that > >> seems to work pretty reliably, but it relies on some tactics that have > >> been discouraged in the past, such tracking the screenMouseLoc and > >>polling > >> the mouse state. Here's the script I'm using (applied using a > >>behavior): > >> > >> local mLoc > >> > >> before mouseDown > >> trackDrag > >> end mouseDown > >> > >> command trackDrag > >> repeat while the mouse is "down" > >> put the screenMouseLoc into SML > >> set topLeft of this stack to item 1 of SML - item 1 of mLoc,\ > >> item 2 of SML - item 2 of mLoc > >> end repeat > >> end trackDrag > >> > >> before mouseMove X,Y > >> put X,Y into mLoc > >> pass mouseMove > >> end mouseMove > >> > >> > >> > >> I know there aren't a ton of people building stacks with custom > >> windowShapes and appearances out there. And while the above has been > >> working for me for a while now, I'm still curious if anyone else has run > >> into this and come up with an alternate solution. > >> > >> > >> Thanks & Regards, > >> > >> Scott Rossi > >> Creative Director > >> Tactile Media, UX/UI Design > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > >_______________________________________________ > >use-livecode mailing list > >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >subscription preferences: > >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sun Aug 9 08:46:51 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2015 15:46:51 +0300 Subject: Jane Austen's peculiarity In-Reply-To: References: <55C6318B.706@gmail.com> <55C642E7.8060406@gmail.com> <55C65B4E.90009@gmail.com> <55C66BD6.7040503@gmail.com> <3BFB63DF-9FAD-4BEB-AF7F-796137B01179@gmail.com> <55C67853.4010506@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55C74BBB.9020206@gmail.com> Call my code clunky, clumsy and slow, and that won't really fuss me: BUT what does fuss me is why this produces NO results when it analyses a text imported from an RTF file, BUT does work when the text is either manually edited or imported from a text file. on mouseUp put empty into fld "COOKED" put 1 into KTEKST put 1 into KCOOK repeat until line KTEKST of fld "TEKST" contains "finalSolution666" put line KTEKST of fld "TEKST" into fld "LYNE" put 1 into KWERBS repeat until line KWERBS of fld "WERBS" contains "finalSolution666" put "was " & line KWERBS of fld "WERBS" into fld "FRAZE" if fld "LYNE" contains fld "FRAZE" then put fld "LYNE" into line KCOOK of fld "COOKED" add 1 to KCOOK end if add 1 to KWERBS end repeat add 1 to KTEKST end repeat end mouseUp This is a big Pain-in-the-bum as texts imported from Text files do NOT generally come into LC textFields with lineBreaks. Richmond. From tfabacher at gmail.com Sun Aug 9 09:16:02 2015 From: tfabacher at gmail.com (Todd Fabacher) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2015 09:16:02 -0400 Subject: [OT-ish] naming a MeetUp group Message-ID: I live in NYC and did not even know there was a group. I would be happy to go and I know several people who would also like to attend. A meetup is a great idea, but they do require some $. The WordPress meetup group has a $10 cover and has pizza delivered. >From a "marketing" perspective...how about calling it "NYC Cross Platform Mobile App Development". This is one of the core skills people seem to me looking for. I would be happy to join and help organize it. You can email me or call me 917.207.3686. --Todd From pmbrig at gmail.com Sun Aug 9 09:42:20 2015 From: pmbrig at gmail.com (Peter M. Brigham) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2015 09:42:20 -0400 Subject: Extracting a reference to a stack In-Reply-To: References: <55C6A6E9.8040604@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <9C2FC3A8-EF4A-4F19-B659-7B54D903943A@gmail.com> Clever. But since the long id of the object is not used by the getprop handler, this always returns the name of the topstack, so it can't be used for more general situations, eg, if you want to get the owningstack of a control on a stack that is suspended. -- Peter Peter M. Brigham pmbrig at gmail.com http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig On Aug 9, 2015, at 2:43 AM, Mike Bonner wrote: > Ok. Better way. Use a virtual getprop in a library stack > > getprop owningstack > return (the name of this stack) > end owningstack > > Then if you have the long id of an object you can do this.. > get the owningstack of myLongId > and "it" will contain the stackname. (should also work inserted into > front, right?) > > On Sat, Aug 8, 2015 at 11:47 PM, Mike Bonner wrote: > >> This may not do things in the required way, but.. If you have a library >> stack with a function or command that just grabs the name of "this stack" >> then you can dispatch or send the request to the object and POOF it'll tell >> you what stack its on, no parsing necessary. >> >> Just tried it here, and it works fine. >> >> On Sat, Aug 8, 2015 at 7:03 PM, Richard Gaskin >> wrote: >> >>> David Bovill wrote: >>> >>>> Yes - you're right. The long name is the only case and like you I >>>> only use long ids in the use cases I have. Except when I store >>>> references when I use the ruggedID handler of the IDE - that should >>>> be a native reference I think? >>> >>> It would be nice to have an engine version of revRuggedID, or for that >>> function definition to just be moved from revbackscriptlibrary to >>> revcommonlibrary, since the latter is copied into every standalone so >>> everyone would have it everywhere. >>> >>> In fact, since both of those libraries are now text-only stacks, anyone >>> sufficiently motivated could make the move and submit a pull request in >>> github. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Richard Gaskin >>> Fourth World Systems >>> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web >>> ____________________________________________________________________ >>> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From pmbrig at gmail.com Sun Aug 9 09:47:25 2015 From: pmbrig at gmail.com (Peter M. Brigham) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2015 09:47:25 -0400 Subject: Jane Austen's peculiarity In-Reply-To: <55C74BBB.9020206@gmail.com> References: <55C6318B.706@gmail.com> <55C642E7.8060406@gmail.com> <55C65B4E.90009@gmail.com> <55C66BD6.7040503@gmail.com> <3BFB63DF-9FAD-4BEB-AF7F-796137B01179@gmail.com> <55C67853.4010506@gmail.com> <55C74BBB.9020206@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4D397DAB-AB22-49AA-89B0-58EEB1534B3C@gmail.com> On Aug 9, 2015, at 8:46 AM, Richmond wrote: > BUT what does fuss me is why this produces NO results when it analyses a text imported from an RTF file, BUT does work when the text > is either manually edited or imported from a text file. Maybe if you do this? set the RTFtext of the templatefield to RTFtextFromFile put the text of the templatefield into fileText reset the templatefield and then operate on the variable fileText. That is, use the engine to convert the RTFtext to plain text. -- Peter Peter M. Brigham pmbrig at gmail.com http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sun Aug 9 09:52:12 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2015 16:52:12 +0300 Subject: Jane Austen's peculiarity In-Reply-To: <4D397DAB-AB22-49AA-89B0-58EEB1534B3C@gmail.com> References: <55C6318B.706@gmail.com> <55C642E7.8060406@gmail.com> <55C65B4E.90009@gmail.com> <55C66BD6.7040503@gmail.com> <3BFB63DF-9FAD-4BEB-AF7F-796137B01179@gmail.com> <55C67853.4010506@gmail.com> <55C74BBB.9020206@gmail.com> <4D397DAB-AB22-49AA-89B0-58EEB1534B3C@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55C75B0C.2060305@gmail.com> On 09/08/15 16:47, Peter M. Brigham wrote: > On Aug 9, 2015, at 8:46 AM, Richmond wrote: > >> BUT what does fuss me is why this produces NO results when it analyses a text imported from an RTF file, BUT does work when the text >> is either manually edited or imported from a text file. > Maybe if you do this? > > set the RTFtext of the templatefield to RTFtextFromFile > put the text of the templatefield into fileText > reset the templatefield > > and then operate on the variable fileText. That is, use the engine to convert the RTFtext to plain text. > > -- Peter > > Hmm, that's a thought. However, I'm doing just fine with HTML text instead :) Now, if you happen to know of a list of English intransitive verbs . . . . Richmond "Nuttier than a fruitcake" Mathewson. From mkoob at rogers.com Sun Aug 9 10:21:36 2015 From: mkoob at rogers.com (Martin Koob) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2015 07:21:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [OT-ish] naming a MeetUp group In-Reply-To: References: <5ACFD6EB-19F4-4D85-83E3-1DB806BFE5BC@gmail.com> <55C689AD.1070700@fourthworld.com> <975CDEEF-8507-477C-9FCC-F63C39FA833D@gmail.com> <55C69328.2030404@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <1439130096520-4694725.post@n4.nabble.com> I set up a meet-up group page in Toronto http://www.meetup.com/Greater-Toronto-Area-LiveCode-Users-Group/members/ I was hoping to specifically focus on LiveCode so included that in the name. You also set a headline for the group. I used the following to hilite the multi platform capabilities. "LiveCode: write once, deploy on iOS, Android, Mac OS X, Windows, Linux, Server" I think if you are trying to appeal to new programmers they may not know that 'High level' means. It may actually sound more difficult, i.e. you are working at a high level. Maybe in the group headline you can explain that high level languages are easier to use. "Coding doesn't need to be scary, high level languages have all of the power to do what you want done with less of the complexity. If you have an idea for an app and want to get started right away join this meet-up. I am not sure how much of that will fit in the headline. With the Toronto LiveCode meet up group members keep joining, it is up to 35 now. However I have not had much luck getting people to come out to a meet up. Martin -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/OT-ish-naming-a-MeetUp-group-tp4694690p4694725.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From bonnmike at gmail.com Sun Aug 9 10:26:20 2015 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2015 08:26:20 -0600 Subject: Extracting a reference to a stack In-Reply-To: <9C2FC3A8-EF4A-4F19-B659-7B54D903943A@gmail.com> References: <55C6A6E9.8040604@fourthworld.com> <9C2FC3A8-EF4A-4F19-B659-7B54D903943A@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hmm. It works fine for me.. Since you're "getting" the property for the object itself, the reference is based on that object. IE get the owningstack of -- the long id being used sets the scope starting at the object in question, so that when it references "the name of this stack" its relative to that object. I've only tried it in 7.0.6, perhaps things behave different in other versions? If I use the long id of an object as the target of the getprop, it works no matter which stack is topmost. I suspect it could be used to get the actual stack name of a stackfile too (since the saved name and the name of the stack don't necessarily have to correlate) Yep, it works. get the owningstack of (the long id of cd 1 of stack "C:/Users/Mike/Desktop/lc/whateverstack.livecode") Though I guess you could just use-- cd 1 of stack "C:/Users/Mike/Desktop/lc/whatever.livecode" without having to get the long id. Of course doing this is pretty silly since you can just "put the name of stack "path/to/stackfile.livecode" On Sun, Aug 9, 2015 at 7:42 AM, Peter M. Brigham wrote: > Clever. But since the long id of the object is not used by the getprop > handler, this always returns the name of the topstack, so it can't be used > for more general situations, eg, if you want to get the owningstack of a > control on a stack that is suspended. > > -- Peter > > Peter M. Brigham > pmbrig at gmail.com > http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig > > > On Aug 9, 2015, at 2:43 AM, Mike Bonner wrote: > > > Ok. Better way. Use a virtual getprop in a library stack > > > > getprop owningstack > > return (the name of this stack) > > end owningstack > > > > Then if you have the long id of an object you can do this.. > > get the owningstack of myLongId > > and "it" will contain the stackname. (should also work inserted into > > front, right?) > > > > On Sat, Aug 8, 2015 at 11:47 PM, Mike Bonner wrote: > > > >> This may not do things in the required way, but.. If you have a library > >> stack with a function or command that just grabs the name of "this > stack" > >> then you can dispatch or send the request to the object and POOF it'll > tell > >> you what stack its on, no parsing necessary. > >> > >> Just tried it here, and it works fine. > >> > >> On Sat, Aug 8, 2015 at 7:03 PM, Richard Gaskin < > ambassador at fourthworld.com > >>> wrote: > >> > >>> David Bovill wrote: > >>> > >>>> Yes - you're right. The long name is the only case and like you I > >>>> only use long ids in the use cases I have. Except when I store > >>>> references when I use the ruggedID handler of the IDE - that should > >>>> be a native reference I think? > >>> > >>> It would be nice to have an engine version of revRuggedID, or for that > >>> function definition to just be moved from revbackscriptlibrary to > >>> revcommonlibrary, since the latter is copied into every standalone so > >>> everyone would have it everywhere. > >>> > >>> In fact, since both of those libraries are now text-only stacks, anyone > >>> sufficiently motivated could make the move and submit a pull request in > >>> github. > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Richard Gaskin > >>> Fourth World Systems > >>> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > >>> ____________________________________________________________________ > >>> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> use-livecode mailing list > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >>> subscription preferences: > >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >>> > >> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From bobwarren at howsoft.com Sun Aug 9 11:11:42 2015 From: bobwarren at howsoft.com (Bob Warren) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2015 12:11:42 -0300 Subject: Making a browser smaller Message-ID: <55C76DAE.2040805@howsoft.com> David Bovill wrote: > I've a web site that I want to make smaller in Livecode. In Chrome or > Firefox I can shrink the browser view using Zoom In / Zoom Out. In Livecode > we have "revBrowserMakeTextSmaller" - but this only shrinks the text. > > Any CSS or other tricks to zoom / shrink an entire web site? I guess not - > just hoping Try this David (works for me): ----------------------------------------------- Regards, Bob Warren From pmbrig at gmail.com Sun Aug 9 11:39:37 2015 From: pmbrig at gmail.com (Peter M. Brigham) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2015 11:39:37 -0400 Subject: Extracting a reference to a stack In-Reply-To: References: <55C6A6E9.8040604@fourthworld.com> <9C2FC3A8-EF4A-4F19-B659-7B54D903943A@gmail.com> Message-ID: <8A3F5623-8E23-479D-9A30-C3A5C3FD0E88@gmail.com> Yes, it does work. My error. You don't even have to use the long id, you can use something like get the owningStack of btn "help" of stack "myStack" and as long as stack "myStack" is open it works. Of course, if you have enough info to specify the stack, then you already know the name of the stack. But it's a clever way to let the engine pull the stack name out of the object reference. -- Peter Peter M. Brigham pmbrig at gmail.com http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig On Aug 9, 2015, at 10:26 AM, Mike Bonner wrote: > Hmm. It works fine for me.. Since you're "getting" the property for the > object itself, the reference is based on that object. IE > get the owningstack of -- the long id being used sets the scope > starting at the object in question, so that when it references "the name of > this stack" its relative to that object. I've only tried it in 7.0.6, > perhaps things behave different in other versions? > > If I use the long id of an object as the target of the getprop, it works no > matter which stack is topmost. I suspect it could be used to get the > actual stack name of a stackfile too (since the saved name and the name of > the stack don't necessarily have to correlate) > > Yep, it works. > > get the owningstack of (the long id of cd 1 of stack > "C:/Users/Mike/Desktop/lc/whateverstack.livecode") > Though I guess you could just use-- cd 1 of stack > "C:/Users/Mike/Desktop/lc/whatever.livecode" without having to get the long > id. > > Of course doing this is pretty silly since you can just "put the name of > stack "path/to/stackfile.livecode" > > > On Sun, Aug 9, 2015 at 7:42 AM, Peter M. Brigham wrote: > >> Clever. But since the long id of the object is not used by the getprop >> handler, this always returns the name of the topstack, so it can't be used >> for more general situations, eg, if you want to get the owningstack of a >> control on a stack that is suspended. >> >> -- Peter >> >> Peter M. Brigham >> pmbrig at gmail.com >> http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig >> >> >> On Aug 9, 2015, at 2:43 AM, Mike Bonner wrote: >> >>> Ok. Better way. Use a virtual getprop in a library stack >>> >>> getprop owningstack >>> return (the name of this stack) >>> end owningstack >>> >>> Then if you have the long id of an object you can do this.. >>> get the owningstack of myLongId >>> and "it" will contain the stackname. (should also work inserted into >>> front, right?) >>> >>> On Sat, Aug 8, 2015 at 11:47 PM, Mike Bonner wrote: >>> >>>> This may not do things in the required way, but.. If you have a library >>>> stack with a function or command that just grabs the name of "this >> stack" >>>> then you can dispatch or send the request to the object and POOF it'll >> tell >>>> you what stack its on, no parsing necessary. >>>> >>>> Just tried it here, and it works fine. >>>> >>>> On Sat, Aug 8, 2015 at 7:03 PM, Richard Gaskin < >> ambassador at fourthworld.com >>>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> David Bovill wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Yes - you're right. The long name is the only case and like you I >>>>>> only use long ids in the use cases I have. Except when I store >>>>>> references when I use the ruggedID handler of the IDE - that should >>>>>> be a native reference I think? >>>>> >>>>> It would be nice to have an engine version of revRuggedID, or for that >>>>> function definition to just be moved from revbackscriptlibrary to >>>>> revcommonlibrary, since the latter is copied into every standalone so >>>>> everyone would have it everywhere. >>>>> >>>>> In fact, since both of those libraries are now text-only stacks, anyone >>>>> sufficiently motivated could make the move and submit a pull request in >>>>> github. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Richard Gaskin >>>>> Fourth World Systems >>>>> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web >>>>> ____________________________________________________________________ >>>>> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sun Aug 9 12:21:04 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2015 09:21:04 -0700 Subject: Jane Austen's peculiarity In-Reply-To: <55C75B0C.2060305@gmail.com> References: <55C75B0C.2060305@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55C77DF0.9090705@fourthworld.com> Richmond wrote: > Now, if you happen to know of a list of English intransitive verbs . . . . There's also WordNet, but while it does include word sense I don't recall if it gets as specific as to the type of verb. Besides, it's even more cumbersome to parse than sraping those Wikipedia pages, so hopefully those will be helpful. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sun Aug 9 12:26:32 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2015 09:26:32 -0700 Subject: Extracting a reference to a stack In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55C77F38.1030804@fourthworld.com> Mike Bonner wrote: > Ok. Better way. Use a virtual getprop in a library stack > > getprop owningstack > return (the name of this stack) > end owningstack > > Then if you have the long id of an object you can do this.. > get the owningstack of myLongId > and "it" will contain the stackname. (should also work inserted into > front, right?) An excellent suggestions, but suffers from a design limitation not of your making: getProp and setProp are currently handled as system messages, so when lockMessages is true they won't fire. This makes them unpredictable except in cases where you have total control over all code (no third-party libraries, and much discipline among team members). :( Mark Waddingham has expressed the opinion that getProp and setProp should be recategorized as custom handlers, and given how they're used that seem quite reasonable. As custom handlers they'd be immune to lockMessages. If the engine were updated accordingly they'd become extremely valuable in so many cases, but as they are I rarely use them. I don't know when such a change would take place. I had hoped it would be before now. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sun Aug 9 12:32:40 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2015 19:32:40 +0300 Subject: Jane Austen's peculiarity In-Reply-To: <55C77DF0.9090705@fourthworld.com> References: <55C75B0C.2060305@gmail.com> <55C77DF0.9090705@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <55C780A8.5090601@gmail.com> On 09/08/15 19:21, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Richmond wrote: >> Now, if you happen to know of a list of English intransitive verbs . >> . . . > > Yes: I looked there: but I am a lazy toad, and the thought of typing all those words into a field makes me want to go and work as a pole dancer! So, all you Use-List users who, for some funny reason (!!!), cannot stomach the idea of Richmond as a pole-dancer in an erotic bar near you, you know what you have to do: get typing :) > > There's also WordNet, but while it does include word sense I don't > recall if it gets as specific as to the type of verb. Besides, it's > even more cumbersome to parse than sraping those Wikipedia pages, so > hopefully those will be helpful. > "scraping" is, indeed, the word. I was, perhaps rather naively, hoping that some hard-working person somewhere had already assembled a nice, tidy, text file of intransitive verb forms . . . Richmond. From bonnmike at gmail.com Sun Aug 9 12:40:42 2015 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2015 10:40:42 -0600 Subject: Extracting a reference to a stack In-Reply-To: <55C77F38.1030804@fourthworld.com> References: <55C77F38.1030804@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Ah thats too bad. I guess the other idea could still work. Dispatch a message to the object in question. Change getprop to.. command owningstack return the name of this stack end owningstack To get at the information just dispatch "owningstack" to myLongId put the result I have a feature request.. The ability to return a long id as an array keyed by numeric order AND object type of possible. Keys something like 1b,2g,3g,4g,5s,6s. 1b would be the button in question, that is in group 3 nested groups, on a substack of the mainstack. 6s would contain the mainstack reference. In this way it should be easy to pick out what you want, and obviate the need to worry about namings that throw so many other things off. Also, it just occurred to me.. Messages can be passed.. (doh) So would it be possible to dispatch a message (that is in a library) that grabs the id of a level, then pass to the next, and build a reference list that way? IE dispatch it to button 1 of group 1 of substack 1 of stack 1 .. passing it each step of the way until the mainstack is hit? On Sun, Aug 9, 2015 at 10:26 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Mike Bonner wrote: > >> Ok. Better way. Use a virtual getprop in a library stack >> >> getprop owningstack >> return (the name of this stack) >> end owningstack >> >> Then if you have the long id of an object you can do this.. >> get the owningstack of myLongId >> and "it" will contain the stackname. (should also work inserted into >> front, right?) >> > > An excellent suggestions, but suffers from a design limitation not of your > making: getProp and setProp are currently handled as system messages, so > when lockMessages is true they won't fire. This makes them unpredictable > except in cases where you have total control over all code (no third-party > libraries, and much discipline among team members). :( > > Mark Waddingham has expressed the opinion that getProp and setProp should > be recategorized as custom handlers, and given how they're used that seem > quite reasonable. As custom handlers they'd be immune to lockMessages. > > If the engine were updated accordingly they'd become extremely valuable in > so many cases, but as they are I rarely use them. > > I don't know when such a change would take place. I had hoped it would be > before now. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sun Aug 9 12:55:07 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2015 19:55:07 +0300 Subject: Jane Austen's peculiarity In-Reply-To: <55C75B0C.2060305@gmail.com> References: <55C6318B.706@gmail.com> <55C642E7.8060406@gmail.com> <55C65B4E.90009@gmail.com> <55C66BD6.7040503@gmail.com> <3BFB63DF-9FAD-4BEB-AF7F-796137B01179@gmail.com> <55C67853.4010506@gmail.com> <55C74BBB.9020206@gmail.com> <4D397DAB-AB22-49AA-89B0-58EEB1534B3C@gmail.com> <55C75B0C.2060305@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55C785EB.1060709@gmail.com> On 09/08/15 16:52, Richmond wrote: > On 09/08/15 16:47, Peter M. Brigham wrote: >> On Aug 9, 2015, at 8:46 AM, Richmond wrote: >> >>> BUT what does fuss me is why this produces NO results when it >>> analyses a text imported from an RTF file, BUT does work when the text >>> is either manually edited or imported from a text file. >> Maybe if you do this? >> >> set the RTFtext of the templatefield to RTFtextFromFile >> put the text of the templatefield into fileText >> reset the templatefield >> >> and then operate on the variable fileText. That is, use the engine to >> convert the RTFtext to plain text. >> >> -- Peter >> >> > Hmm, that's a thought. > > However, I'm doing just fine with HTML text instead :) > > Now, if you happen to know of a list of English intransitive verbs . . > . . > > Richmond "Nuttier than a fruitcake" Mathewson. Well . . . the stack works, but as I have not loaded the whole text to be analysed into a variable, but am doing it line by line, the whole thing is taking far, far too long . . . After 3 hours the stack has just passed line 56,362 of the Gutenberg Library's Complete Jane Austen ( and that is only looking for was / were plus 3 verb forms ) . . . much too slow. I wonder why I have always had to learn things the hard way? Certainly, if I am going to analyse the million words of the Freiburg English Dialect Corpus, I am going to have to get things moving along somewhat. Wikipedia lists 5048 intransitive verbs; IFF I can get them into a listField (!!!!!!!), things will get very slow indeed if the list is not loaded into a variable. My production machine has 6 GB RAM, so, with any luck, with both the corpus and the verb list in variables (i.e. directly in RAM), I won't have to go away and plant potatoes for a week while it does the crunching. Richmond. From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sun Aug 9 13:14:45 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2015 10:14:45 -0700 Subject: Reliable Custom Window Dragging in LC7? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55C78A85.2050405@ahsoftware.net> On 08/08/2015 11:45 PM, Scott Rossi wrote: > But create a new untitled stack in the IDE. Click between between the new > stack and the windowShaped stack and drag them around. Over here, when > clicking on the windowShaped stack after the standard stack, there is a > delay while the window becomes active, and then dragging is thrown way > off, depending on how fast you drag. Whew! I'm glad it's not just me. Also, creating a drag stack invisibly, setting its parameters, then making it visible to start dragging makes it visible at the center of the screen, then changes its location, so that you have an initial visible jump. Probably the delay thing you're talking about. One of the many reasons I stick with 6.x. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sun Aug 9 13:21:50 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2015 10:21:50 -0700 Subject: Reliable Custom Window Dragging in LC7? In-Reply-To: <55C78A85.2050405@ahsoftware.net> References: <55C78A85.2050405@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <55C78C2E.7090209@fourthworld.com> Mark Wieder wrote: > On 08/08/2015 11:45 PM, Scott Rossi wrote: > >> But create a new untitled stack in the IDE. Click between between the new >> stack and the windowShaped stack and drag them around. Over here, when >> clicking on the windowShaped stack after the standard stack, there is a >> delay while the window becomes active, and then dragging is thrown way >> off, depending on how fast you drag. > > Whew! I'm glad it's not just me. > > Also, creating a drag stack invisibly, setting its parameters, then > making it visible to start dragging makes it visible at the center of > the screen, then changes its location, so that you have an initial > visible jump. Probably the delay thing you're talking about. > > One of the many reasons I stick with 6.x. Version 6.x will be EOL'd sooner or later, and it'd be good to see this fixed for the future. What's the bug report number? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sun Aug 9 13:34:49 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2015 20:34:49 +0300 Subject: Jane Austen's peculiarity In-Reply-To: <55C785EB.1060709@gmail.com> References: <55C6318B.706@gmail.com> <55C642E7.8060406@gmail.com> <55C65B4E.90009@gmail.com> <55C66BD6.7040503@gmail.com> <3BFB63DF-9FAD-4BEB-AF7F-796137B01179@gmail.com> <55C67853.4010506@gmail.com> <55C74BBB.9020206@gmail.com> <4D397DAB-AB22-49AA-89B0-58EEB1534B3C@gmail.com> <55C75B0C.2060305@gmail.com> <55C785EB.1060709@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55C78F39.8070003@gmail.com> >> >> However, I'm doing just fine with HTML text instead :) >> > > Well . . . the stack works, but as I have not loaded the whole text to > be analysed into a variable, but am doing it line by line, the whole > thing > is taking far, far too long . . . > What this does at least prove (P. Brigham et al) is that while my code may work slowly, my logic is not faulty. That at least means I can have a warm fuzzy about my logic as the stack grinds along at a glacial rate. Richmond. From pete at lcsql.com Sun Aug 9 13:58:10 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2015 17:58:10 +0000 Subject: Extracting a reference to a stack In-Reply-To: References: <55C77F38.1030804@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: I guess how you approach this is a matter of coding preferences. All the solutions posted work but some of them have certain edge cases when they won't, most of which I've run into at one time or another. I still prefer using the engine's knowledge of the ownership hierarchy of an object since it will always be correct and I've found the following to work for any stack in memory no matter whether it's the topstack, whether it is open, or whether a long id or long name is passed as its parameter.. function stackOfObject pobject repeat if word 1 of pobject is "stack" then return pobject else put the long owner of pobject into pobject end if end repeat end stackOfObject I like the idea of having a built-in function that returns an array of the ownership hierarchy. While not quite what Mike suggested, the above could be modified to return an array as follows. I'm sure there are many other ways to do it. function ownershipArray pobject local tArray,tGroupLevel put zero into tGroupLevel repeat if word 1 of pobject is "stack" then put the short name of pobject into tArray["stack"] put the mainstack of pobject into tArray["main"] put the filename of stack (the mainstack of pobject) into tArray["file"] return tArray else if word 1 of pobject is "group" then add 1 to tGroupLevel put the short id of pobject into tArray["group"][tGroupLevel] else put the short id of pobject into tArray[word 1 of pobject] end if put the long owner of pobject into pobject end if end repeat end ownershipArray If you pass the id of a button nested in three groups, this would return the following keys: button group 1 --innermost group 2 3 --outermost group card stack main file On Sun, Aug 9, 2015 at 9:40 AM Mike Bonner wrote: > Ah thats too bad. > I guess the other idea could still work. Dispatch a message to the object > in question. > > Change getprop to.. > > command owningstack > return the name of this stack > end owningstack > > To get at the information just > dispatch "owningstack" to myLongId > put the result > > I have a feature request.. The ability to return a long id as an array > keyed by numeric order AND object type of possible. Keys something like > 1b,2g,3g,4g,5s,6s. 1b would be the button in question, that is in group 3 > nested groups, on a substack of the mainstack. 6s would contain the > mainstack reference. In this way it should be easy to pick out what you > want, and obviate the need to worry about namings that throw so many other > things off. > > Also, it just occurred to me.. Messages can be passed.. (doh) > > So would it be possible to dispatch a message (that is in a library) that > grabs the id of a level, then pass to the next, and build a reference list > that way? > > IE dispatch it to button 1 of group 1 of substack 1 of stack 1 .. passing > it each step of the way until the mainstack is hit? > > On Sun, Aug 9, 2015 at 10:26 AM, Richard Gaskin < > ambassador at fourthworld.com> > wrote: > > > Mike Bonner wrote: > > > >> Ok. Better way. Use a virtual getprop in a library stack > >> > >> getprop owningstack > >> return (the name of this stack) > >> end owningstack > >> > >> Then if you have the long id of an object you can do this.. > >> get the owningstack of myLongId > >> and "it" will contain the stackname. (should also work inserted into > >> front, right?) > >> > > > > An excellent suggestions, but suffers from a design limitation not of > your > > making: getProp and setProp are currently handled as system messages, so > > when lockMessages is true they won't fire. This makes them unpredictable > > except in cases where you have total control over all code (no > third-party > > libraries, and much discipline among team members). :( > > > > Mark Waddingham has expressed the opinion that getProp and setProp should > > be recategorized as custom handlers, and given how they're used that seem > > quite reasonable. As custom handlers they'd be immune to lockMessages. > > > > If the engine were updated accordingly they'd become extremely valuable > in > > so many cases, but as they are I rarely use them. > > > > I don't know when such a change would take place. I had hoped it would > be > > before now. > > > > -- > > Richard Gaskin > > Fourth World Systems > > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From hh at livecode.org Sun Aug 9 14:15:06 2015 From: hh at livecode.org (hh) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2015 20:15:06 +0200 Subject: Jane Austen's peculiarity Message-ID: <419F02EE-29B0-4071-AFDB-9D8BE0D60820@livecode.org> To come back to Richmond's opening post, one could think about using the following, avoiding complex offset constructions. First collect word 1 of each item of a string (not too large, size adapted to your machine), where the itemdelimiter is "were" or any other word (conditional) that filters a targeted phrasing in or out. Strings as itemdelimiters are possible in LC 7 (one may also use "split" and "combine" with such delimiters) and this is pretty fast. This could narrow the lists and cases you have to investigate further. Hermann > Sun Aug 9 01:44:36 CEST 2015 by Alex Tweedly. > I think I'd agree that a conditional clause should be equired (could it > be any of 'if', 'unless', 'whether', ...)? > > Otherwise, you'd be finding false positives like: > > I gave two shillings to my brother and last night they _were returned_ > to me. > > -- Alex. > >> Sat Aug 8 18:42:51 CEST 2015 by Richmond. >> Jane Austen [amongst others] uses an interesting type of grammatical >> construction of this sort: >> >> After breakfast, the girls walked to Meryton to inquire if Mr. Wickham >> _were returned_, and to lament over his absence from the Netherfield ball. >> >> Pride and Prejudice. >> >> I would like to analyse a million word corpus that I have been granted >> access to for this type of construction. >> >> However, I don't want to find examples of only 'were returned', but all >> examples of >> >> were + infinitive / preterite / past participle >> >> and, presumably for that I shall have to use wildcards . . . >> >> OR ??? >> >> Richmond. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sun Aug 9 15:57:41 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2015 22:57:41 +0300 Subject: Jane Austen's peculiarity In-Reply-To: <419F02EE-29B0-4071-AFDB-9D8BE0D60820@livecode.org> References: <419F02EE-29B0-4071-AFDB-9D8BE0D60820@livecode.org> Message-ID: <55C7B0B5.8000906@gmail.com> "Just" by loading the textFields into variables the whole script runs considerably faster: on mouseUp put empty into fld "COOKED" put the long time into fld "STARTT" put 1 into KTEKST put 1 into KCOOK put fld "TEKST" into TEKST --!!!! put fld "WERBS" into WERBS --!!!! repeat until line KTEKST of TEKST contains "finalSolution666" put line KTEKST of TEKST into LTEKST put 1 into KWERBS repeat until line KWERBS of WERBS contains "finalSolution666" put "was " & line KWERBS of WERBS into FRAZE put "were " & line KWERBS of WERBS into FRAZE2 if LTEKST contains FRAZE then put KTEKST & " : " & LTEKST into line KCOOK of fld "COOKED" add 1 to KCOOK end if if LTEKST contains FRAZE2 then put KTEKST & " : " & LTEKST into line KCOOK of fld "COOKED" add 1 to KCOOK end if add 1 to KWERBS end repeat add 1 to KTEKST end repeat put the long time into fld "STOPT" end mouseUp "--!!!!" indicates the important changes. The new script (with loading textFields into variables) with one text took 115 seconds. The same text with the old text (no loading) took 10 minutes and 7 seconds. 5.27 times faster . . . Wow! I am surprised at such a speed difference! Richmond. From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sun Aug 9 16:03:22 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2015 13:03:22 -0700 Subject: Jane Austen's peculiarity In-Reply-To: <55C7B0B5.8000906@gmail.com> References: <55C7B0B5.8000906@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55C7B20A.90204@fourthworld.com> Richmond wrote: > "Just" by loading the textFields into variables the whole script runs > considerably faster If you did the same with the output it'd get even faster. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sun Aug 9 16:22:09 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2015 23:22:09 +0300 Subject: Jane Austen's peculiarity In-Reply-To: <55C7B20A.90204@fourthworld.com> References: <55C7B0B5.8000906@gmail.com> <55C7B20A.90204@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <55C7B671.70906@gmail.com> On 09/08/15 23:03, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Richmond wrote: > > "Just" by loading the textFields into variables the whole script runs > > considerably faster > > If you did the same with the output it'd get even faster. > Aha. Richmond. From david at viral.academy Sun Aug 9 16:59:27 2015 From: david at viral.academy (David Bovill) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2015 21:59:27 +0100 Subject: Making a browser smaller In-Reply-To: <55C76DAE.2040805@howsoft.com> References: <55C76DAE.2040805@howsoft.com> Message-ID: Thanks - that works great. I'm actually just adding the transforms to the CSS of the body and footer elements. I did not realise quite how powerful CSS is - the transformations of whole pages are stunning and fast. Has anyone experimented with adding these via Livecode scripts to pages to induce similar transitions that you get when playing with CSS in the browser toolkits? On 9 August 2015 at 16:11, Bob Warren wrote: > David Bovill wrote: > > I've a web site that I want to make smaller in Livecode. In Chrome or >> Firefox I can shrink the browser view using Zoom In / Zoom Out. In >> Livecode >> we have "revBrowserMakeTextSmaller" - but this only shrinks the text. >> >> Any CSS or other tricks to zoom / shrink an entire web site? I guess not - >> just hoping >> > Try this David (works for me): > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------- > Regards, > > Bob Warren > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Sun Aug 9 17:38:00 2015 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2015 17:38:00 -0400 Subject: Local Path for Mobile In-Reply-To: <55C6B7FB.1000904@hindu.org> References: <55C6B7FB.1000904@hindu.org> Message-ID: <001301d0d2eb$aa0b9e20$fe22da60$@net> This assumes that all the assets to be included in the copy files pane in the standalone setting are relative to the stack path. function TheEngine local tStackPath switch case the environment = "Mobile" return the engine folder break default put the long name of this stack into tStackPath delete char 1 to 7 in tStackPath set the itemdelimiter to slash return item 1 to -2 of tStackPath end switch end TheEngine Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Brahmanathaswami Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2015 10:16 PM To: How to use LiveCode Subject: Re: Local Path for Mobile Can you share that function? i could guess what it is... but why re-invent the wheel? Ralph DiMola wrote: > I have a function "TheEngineFolder" that returns the engine folder on mobile and the location of the included assets when in the IDE. This allows testing using the same code. _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From prothero at earthednet.org Sun Aug 9 19:03:19 2015 From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2015 16:03:19 -0700 Subject: Odd behavior in Win8-I'm stuck fixing it, Help?? In-Reply-To: References: <8F200619-C73C-465A-A36C-3EA1387E8619@earthednet.org> <9DB490A9-28C3-43C8-86C5-8941182887EE@earthednet.org> Message-ID: Paul: You?re right! Thanks for correcting this. This ?from Rect? part is completely unnecessary. My earlier version, which captured the screen, also captured any IDE windows in from of the capture region. However, even with the RECT part of the command, the windows in front of the capture region were not captured. But, it makes sense what you said, works the same, and I?ll make the changes. Thanks again! Bill > On Aug 8, 2015, at 11:48 AM, Paul Hibbert wrote: > > Hi Bill, > > Sorry for the delay replying, I?ve been away from home for a few days. > > I don?t think line 6 will give the result you are looking for, I would change it to: > >> 6. export snapshot from Group "snapshotGrp" with metadata theMetadataArray to image mySnapShot > > i.e. Remove the ?from rect? part of the command. Using "from rect? still relies on the computer hardware to produce the snapshot, where as ?from object? allows LC to render the snapshot with whatever parameters you supply. > > I?ve saved a test stack to dropbox, hopefully this will demonstrate the differences a little better: > > https://www.dropbox.com/s/xkx2fk4a2mel6l3/Export%20High%20Res%20Image.livecode?dl=0 > > I hope this helps resolve the problem. > > Regards, > > Paul > > >> On Aug 6, 2015, at 11:00, William Prothero wrote: >> >> Paul: One more thing. My test uses a variable ?theMetadataArray?, which is not set, so is blank. The manual states: >> metadata - The metadata is an array of metadata. Currently the only key supported is "density" with a value in pixels per inch (ppi). >> >> So, I wonder if, to get the benefit, I have to set pixels per inch somehow, in theMetadataArray. >> Best, >> Bill >> >>> On Aug 6, 2015, at 10:57 AM, William Prothero wrote: >>> >>> Paul: >>> FYI, I set up a test stack to figure out how to use the ?from object? method of getting a snapshot image. Here?s the steps I followed: >>> >>> 1. put all images that are to be captured in a group. >>> 2. set the group rect to the desired snapshot rect >>> 3. Lock the group rect >>> 4. Set the group to "scaling" >>> 5. In the script: set the snapRect to the rect of the group >>> 6. export snapshot from rect snapRect of Group "snapshotGrp" with metadata theMetadataArray to image mySnapShot >>> 7. set the rect of img mySnapShot to snapRect >>> 8. set the visible if img mySnapShot to TRUE >>> >>> Perhaps this will help others. I have no idea if this would solve the problem an occasional student has, but the method works fine in Macintosh OS 10.10.4 and livecode 7.0.6 >>> >>> What I have is a very large map image in the group. The map is magnified, scrolled, etc. When some kinds of data are plotted, graphic and field object are placed in the correct locations over the map. Then the snapshot is taken and the graphic objects (except for the map) are deleted. For large symbol datasets, like earthquakes, I draw the symbols directly into the snapshot graphic. That way the image data is much smaller than if I tried to draw into the large map, and also, the large map doesn?t need to be refreshed when data are erased from view. >>> >>> Thanks again for the hints. >>> Best, >>> Bill >>> >>>> On Aug 3, 2015, at 7:42 PM, Paul Hibbert wrote: >>>> >>>> Bill, >>>> >>>> I?ve done a few tests and it appears to me that "from rect? still relies on the screen output from the computer, whereas ?from object? allows LC to render an image of an object independent of the screen hardware. >>>> >>>> Try this: >>>> >>>> Move your stack so the map image is half off the screen, then make the snapshot, the image doesn?t render completely, this suggests to me that the app is accessing a screen representation of the image rather than using LC?s internal rendering, so 'I think' changing the snap routine to make a snap from say a group of the map and it?s associated data may cure the problem. >>>> >>>> eg. export snapshot from group ?mapAndData? to image ?mapSnap? ? then try the test above again. >>>> >>>> Paul >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Aug 3, 2015, at 16:22, William Prothero wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Paul: >>>>> Thanks for the hint. I do use the newer ?from? syntax. >>>>> export snapshot from rect snapRect to image "mapSnap" >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Bill >>>>> >>>>>> On Jul 31, 2015, at 3:35 PM, Paul Hibbert wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Bill, >>>>>> >>>>>> I?ve just read the following explanation from RG relating to another snapshot problem and wondered if it also relates to your student?s problems? >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The "from" option renders the object into a new buffer set up just for the snapshot, while the older "of" syntax grabs the object's rect from the composite screen buffer. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> LiveCode renders only the content region of a window but the window itself is rendered by the OS, so it has no choice but to obtain that image from the screen buffer. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Richard Gaskin >>>>>>> Fourth World Systems >>>>>>> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web >>>>>>> ____________________________________________________________________ >>>>>>> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com >>>>>> >>>>>> When I first read your post I wondered if the problem could be due to low grade or incompatible video cards in the affected machines, if that?s the case then the above explanation would make sense, to me at least. >>>>>> >>>>>> So, the question is, does your "export snapshot" script use the ?from? or ?of? option? >>>>>> >>>>>> If it?s the ?of? option then switching to the ?from? option may fix the problem your students are seeing. >>>>>> >>>>>> Just a thought. >>>>>> >>>>>> Paul >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Jul 16, 2015, at 14:07, William Prothero wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Folks: >>>>>>> I have an application that is being used by a class of Earth Science students and get failure reports from two who use Windows 8. One lives in Australia and one lives in Japan. The app works fine on Macintosh. I?ve also tested it on my own installation of both Windows 8.1 and 7, 32 bit and 64 bit versions. I can?t get the reported pixellation of the map and screen. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I?m wondering if it is something related to foreign installations. The symptom is extreme pixellation of images captured with the "export snapshot? command. I live in the US. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So, I wonder if somebody with Windows 8 would be willing to download the app and try it, and perhaps give me an idea of what might be going on. If it?s a bug in ?snapshot?, it would be important to be reported and fixed. Otherwise, I?m pretty stuck on figuring out what is going on. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Here are links: >>>>>>> Windows zip file of the app: >>>>>>> Pixellated Image sent by a student >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks for any help or feedback you can give me. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>> Bill >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> William A. Prothero >>>>>>> http://es.earthednet.org/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards, >>>>>> >>>>>> Paul Hibbert >>>>>> paul at livecode.org >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> >>>> Paul Hibbert >>>> paul at livecode.org >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From monte at sweattechnologies.com Sun Aug 9 19:54:51 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 09:54:51 +1000 Subject: [YO EDINBURGH!] Microsoft Open-Sources It's Toolkit For Making iOS Apps Run On Win 10 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7E6CDD46-22D7-46F9-A08F-8DB35BCDCEF6@sweattechnologies.com> > On 8 Aug 2015, at 1:09 am, Mike Kerner wrote: > > http://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-open-sources-its-ios-toolkit-for-building-windows-10-apps/?tag=nl.e539&s_cid=e539&ttag=e539&ftag=TRE17cfd61 This may be interesting for cross compiling some of my externals. It looks like they plan to support MapKit and iAd at least. It seems it won?t be long before without a great deal of trouble you can implement a native app for your most critical platform and then build it for the others using these bridges. I?m not sure if Apple will bother building bridges in the other direction though? probably a bit worrying for LiveCode as it leaves its main USP to be a verbose language? The main thing I?m hoping is someone implements Xcode support for the bridge so we can cross compile for Windows from Xcode like Cocotron. Cheers Monte From mikedoub at gmail.com Sun Aug 9 19:54:32 2015 From: mikedoub at gmail.com (Michael Doub) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2015 19:54:32 -0400 Subject: Jane Austen's peculiarity In-Reply-To: <55C7B671.70906@gmail.com> References: <55C7B0B5.8000906@gmail.com> <55C7B20A.90204@fourthworld.com> <55C7B671.70906@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55C7E838.6040600@gmail.com> Richmond, Just so you know what is going on. Each time a change in made to a field, a lot of management code is executed to properly render the field in case it is needed to be visible. So when a field is modified within a loop, that field management code is executed over and over. When the data is moved into a variable then manipulated the field management code is only executed when the results are put back into the field. In almost all cases it is much faster to copy a field into a variable, manipulate the data, then put it back in the field when you want to make it visible. Regards, Mike On 8/9/15 4:22 PM, Richmond wrote: > On 09/08/15 23:03, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> Richmond wrote: >> > "Just" by loading the textFields into variables the whole script runs >> > considerably faster >> >> If you did the same with the output it'd get even faster. >> > > Aha. > > Richmond. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sun Aug 9 19:59:53 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2015 16:59:53 -0700 Subject: [YO EDINBURGH!] Microsoft Open-Sources It's Toolkit For Making iOS Apps Run On Win 10 In-Reply-To: <7E6CDD46-22D7-46F9-A08F-8DB35BCDCEF6@sweattechnologies.com> References: <7E6CDD46-22D7-46F9-A08F-8DB35BCDCEF6@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <55C7E979.7060004@fourthworld.com> Monte Goulding wrote: > ...probably a bit worrying for LiveCode as it leaves its main USP > to be a verbose language? Verbose? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From brahma at hindu.org Sun Aug 9 16:12:16 2015 From: brahma at hindu.org (Brahmanathaswami) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2015 10:12:16 -1000 Subject: Visual Effects on Mobile In-Reply-To: References: <55C6B7A2.5060002@hindu.org> Message-ID: <55C7B420.9020909@hindu.org> as I use these in mobile stacks, combined with limiting transitions to defined rects: Works on android also? Swasti Astu, Be Well! Brahmanathaswami Kauai's Hindu Monastery www.HimalayanAcademy.com Scott Rossi wrote: > I believe curl and flip are the only visual effects that are exclusive to > mobile (iOS only?), while the others should work. I know for a fact that > push and wipe work fine, as I use these in mobile stacks, combined with > limiting transitions to defined rects: > > lock screen for visual effect in rect (rect of grc 1) > > It would be easy enough for you to create a basic test stack and run it in > the simulator or on a device. > > Regards, > > Scott Rossi > Creative Director > Tactile Media, UX/UI Design From brahma at hindu.org Sun Aug 9 20:51:26 2015 From: brahma at hindu.org (Brahmanathaswami) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2015 14:51:26 -1000 Subject: Local Path for Mobile In-Reply-To: <001301d0d2eb$aa0b9e20$fe22da60$@net> References: <55C6B7FB.1000904@hindu.org> <001301d0d2eb$aa0b9e20$fe22da60$@net> Message-ID: <55C7F58E.1050609@hindu.org> Thanks Ralph So you mean like this... I think it is obvious but just to be sure on my HD ~/livecode/BigMobileProject/ big-project.livecode/ /images /fonts /data the three folders here are "relative" to the stack path.. I will test this.. thanks! Swasti Astu, Be Well! Brahmanathaswami Kauai's Hindu Monastery www.HimalayanAcademy.com Ralph DiMola wrote: > This assumes that all the assets to be included in the copy files pane in > the standalone setting are relative to the stack path. > > function TheEngine > local tStackPath > switch > case the environment = "Mobile" > return the engine folder > break > default > put the long name of this stack into tStackPath > delete char 1 to 7 in tStackPath > set the itemdelimiter to slash > return item 1 to-2 of tStackPath > end switch > > end TheEngine > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net From rdimolad at evergreeninfo.net Sun Aug 9 22:25:46 2015 From: rdimolad at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2015 22:25:46 -0400 Subject: Local Path for Mobile Message-ID: Yes, Also include those folders in the copy files pane of the standalone settings and your golden. TheEngine ("/images/pic.png") will work in the IDE and mobile. The Fonts will be loaded automatically on mobile. Check out bug 12431 on otf fonts and bug 14844 about the copyfiles pane. Two gotchas.? Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net
-------- Original message --------
From: Brahmanathaswami
Date:08/09/2015 20:51 (GMT-05:00)
To: How to use LiveCode
Subject: Re: Local Path for Mobile
Thanks Ralph So you mean like this... I think it is obvious but just to be sure on my HD ~/livecode/BigMobileProject/ big-project.livecode/ /images /fonts /data the three folders here are "relative" to the stack path.. I will test this.. thanks! Swasti Astu, Be Well! Brahmanathaswami Kauai's Hindu Monastery www.HimalayanAcademy.com Ralph DiMola wrote: > This assumes that all the assets to be included in the copy files pane in > the standalone setting are relative to the stack path. > > function TheEngine > local tStackPath > switch > case the environment = "Mobile" > return the engine folder > break > default > put the long name of this stack into tStackPath > delete char 1 to 7 in tStackPath > set the itemdelimiter to slash > return item 1 to-2 of tStackPath > end switch > > end TheEngine > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From monte at sweattechnologies.com Sun Aug 9 23:14:23 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 13:14:23 +1000 Subject: [YO EDINBURGH!] Microsoft Open-Sources It's Toolkit For Making iOS Apps Run On Win 10 In-Reply-To: <55C7E979.7060004@fourthworld.com> References: <7E6CDD46-22D7-46F9-A08F-8DB35BCDCEF6@sweattechnologies.com> <55C7E979.7060004@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: > On 10 Aug 2015, at 9:59 am, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > Monte Goulding wrote: > > > ...probably a bit worrying for LiveCode as it leaves its main USP > > to be a verbose language? > > Verbose? Verbose for a programming language at least From dunbarx at aol.com Sun Aug 9 23:44:18 2015 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx at aol.com) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2015 23:44:18 -0400 Subject: Jane Austen's peculiarity In-Reply-To: <419F02EE-29B0-4071-AFDB-9D8BE0D60820@livecode.org> References: <419F02EE-29B0-4071-AFDB-9D8BE0D60820@livecode.org> Message-ID: <14f15b5773b-69ff-459e1@webprd-m61.mail.aol.com> Hermann. You are back. So glad... Craig -----Original Message----- From: hh To: use-livecode Sent: Sun, Aug 9, 2015 2:15 pm Subject: Re: Jane Austen's peculiarity To come back to Richmond's opening post, one could think about using the following, avoiding complex offset constructions. First collect word 1 of each item of a string (not too large, size adapted to your machine), where the itemdelimiter is "were" or any other word (conditional) that filters a targeted phrasing in or out. Strings as itemdelimiters are possible in LC 7 (one may also use "split" and "combine" with such delimiters) and this is pretty fast. This could narrow the lists and cases you have to investigate further. Hermann > Sun Aug 9 01:44:36 CEST 2015 by Alex Tweedly. > I think I'd agree that a conditional clause should be equired (could it > be any of 'if', 'unless', 'whether', ...)? > > Otherwise, you'd be finding false positives like: > > I gave two shillings to my brother and last night they _were returned_ > to me. > > -- Alex. > >> Sat Aug 8 18:42:51 CEST 2015 by Richmond. >> Jane Austen [amongst others] uses an interesting type of grammatical >> construction of this sort: >> >> After breakfast, the girls walked to Meryton to inquire if Mr. Wickham >> _were returned_, and to lament over his absence from the Netherfield ball. >> >> Pride and Prejudice. >> >> I would like to analyse a million word corpus that I have been granted >> access to for this type of construction. >> >> However, I don't want to find examples of only 'were returned', but all >> examples of >> >> were + infinitive / preterite / past participle >> >> and, presumably for that I shall have to use wildcards . . . >> >> OR ??? >> >> Richmond. _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Aug 10 00:54:32 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2015 21:54:32 -0700 Subject: [YO EDINBURGH!] Microsoft Open-Sources It's Toolkit For Making iOS Apps Run On Win 10 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55C82E88.4080002@fourthworld.com> Monte Goulding wrote: >> On 10 Aug 2015, at 9:59 am, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> >> Monte Goulding wrote: >> >> > ...probably a bit worrying for LiveCode as it leaves its main USP >> > to be a verbose language? >> >> Verbose? > > Verbose for a programming language at least Yeah, I used to hear that from C and Assembler programmers back in the '90s who hadn't used an xTalk but tried to size it up by looking at a few single statements. And indeed, single statements are often longer in LiveCode. But when we step back to look at a more complete measure of verbosity -- how much typing to get the same functionality -- LiveCode often outshines many other great languages. For example, here's a Java snippet I dug up that adds two numbers from a text file: import java.util.Scanner; import java.io.*; public class MyClass { public static void main(String[] args) throws IOException { Scanner s = new Scanner(new File("sample.txt")); int tmp1 = s.nextInt(); int tmp2 = s.nextInt(); System.out.println(tmp1 + tmp2); } } And of course in LiveCode: get url ("file:sample.txt") put word 1 of it + word 2 of it The brevity we enjoy with a LiveCode engine that lets us do so much with so few lines becomes even more pronounced once we need to handle GUI events, coerce types, manage memory allocations, and many other modern app tasks. There are many great languages, and for all their respective strengths none of them are best at everything. Not even LiveCode. But where LiveCode shines it shines brightly. PS: Should I find myself spending the rest of my years never having to ever again type things like this I can't say I expect to miss it on my deathbed: public static void main(String args[]) That sort of common Java declaration is stuff LiveCode already does for us by default, no typing required at all. Verbose? ;) -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for Desktop, Mobile, and Web ____________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From monte at sweattechnologies.com Mon Aug 10 01:15:24 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 15:15:24 +1000 Subject: [YO EDINBURGH!] Microsoft Open-Sources It's Toolkit For Making iOS Apps Run On Win 10 In-Reply-To: <55C82E88.4080002@fourthworld.com> References: <55C82E88.4080002@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <23EE8F88-37C6-4ACB-959F-91F84A64918B@sweattechnologies.com> > But when we step back to look at a more complete measure of verbosity -- how much typing to get the same functionality -- LiveCode often outshines many other great languages. And here was I saying it was a feature? ;-) From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Aug 10 01:22:24 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2015 22:22:24 -0700 Subject: [YO EDINBURGH!] Microsoft Open-Sources It's Toolkit For Making iOS Apps Run On Win 10 In-Reply-To: <23EE8F88-37C6-4ACB-959F-91F84A64918B@sweattechnologies.com> References: <23EE8F88-37C6-4ACB-959F-91F84A64918B@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <55C83510.5080903@fourthworld.com> Monte Goulding wrote: >> But when we step back to look at a more complete measure of >> verbosity -- how much typing to get the same functionality >> -- LiveCode often outshines many other great languages. > > And here was I saying it was a feature? ;-) Features-per-kloc's not a bad metric.... -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for Desktop, Mobile, and Web ____________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From monte at sweattechnologies.com Mon Aug 10 01:26:27 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 15:26:27 +1000 Subject: [YO EDINBURGH!] Microsoft Open-Sources It's Toolkit For Making iOS Apps Run On Win 10 In-Reply-To: <55C83510.5080903@fourthworld.com> References: <23EE8F88-37C6-4ACB-959F-91F84A64918B@sweattechnologies.com> <55C83510.5080903@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <7EE8E5DF-3754-45AD-A0D4-7AA66A66839A@sweattechnologies.com> > On 10 Aug 2015, at 3:22 pm, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > Features-per-kloc's not a bad metric?. Doesn?t every LiveCode project start at 0/500000 ? Just being cheeky. You know I love LC ;-) From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 01:53:56 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 08:53:56 +0300 Subject: Jane Austen's peculiarity In-Reply-To: <55C7E838.6040600@gmail.com> References: <55C7B0B5.8000906@gmail.com> <55C7B20A.90204@fourthworld.com> <55C7B671.70906@gmail.com> <55C7E838.6040600@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55C83C74.9080600@gmail.com> On 10/08/15 02:54, Michael Doub wrote: > Richmond, > > Just so you know what is going on. Each time a change in made to a > field, a lot of management code is executed to properly render the > field in case it is needed to be visible. So when a field is > modified within a loop, that field management code is executed over > and over. When the data is moved into a variable then manipulated > the field management code is only executed when the results are put > back into the field. > > In almost all cases it is much faster to copy a field into a variable, > manipulate the data, then put it back in the field when you want to > make it visible. > > Regards, > Mike > Thanks: you read my mind - I was going to get up this morning and ask 'why'? I suffer from a serious problem: I learnt all about this sort of stuff donkey's years ago (about 30) and since the fact that I have a computer that sits on my desk that at 'only' 9 years old wipes the floor with anything available 30 years ago (VAX mainframe) I had really overlooked that sort of thing, to the extent of completely forgetting about it. This is, also, the first time I have used a programming language/suite/IDE to process large amounts of data since my BA project in PASCAL (30 years ago) - which, using a much shorter text than Jane Austen's complete works (an English translation of Leibniz's /Monadology/) crashed the University of Durham mainframe; and that didn't render any visual stuff on screen whatsoever. I shall now become obsessive about loading everything into variables :) Richmond. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 02:51:00 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 09:51:00 +0300 Subject: Jane Austen's peculiarity In-Reply-To: <55C7B20A.90204@fourthworld.com> References: <55C7B0B5.8000906@gmail.com> <55C7B20A.90204@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <55C849D4.5060102@gmail.com> On 09/08/15 23:03, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Richmond wrote: > > "Just" by loading the textFields into variables the whole script runs > > considerably faster > > If you did the same with the output it'd get even faster. > Hmm: on mouseUp put empty into fld "COOKED" put empty into fld "STARTT" put empty into fld "STOPT" put "started : " & the long time into fld "STARTT" put 1 into KTEKST put 1 into KCOOK put fld "TEKST" into TEKST put fld "WERBS" into WERBS repeat until line KTEKST of TEKST contains "finalSolution666" put line KTEKST of TEKST into LTEKST put 1 into KWERBS repeat until line KWERBS of WERBS contains "finalSolution666" put "was " & line KWERBS of WERBS into FRAZE put "were " & line KWERBS of WERBS into FRAZE2 if LTEKST contains FRAZE then put KTEKST & " : " & LTEKST into line KCOOK of COOKED ---!!! add 1 to KCOOK end if if LTEKST contains FRAZE2 then put KTEKST & " : " & LTEKST into line KCOOK of COOKED ---!!! add 1 to KCOOK end if add 1 to KWERBS end repeat add 1 to KTEKST end repeat put COOKED into fld "COOKED" ---!!! put "finished : " & the long time into fld "STOPT" end mouseUp modifications marked thus: ---!!! crashed Livecode. Richmond. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 05:19:45 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 12:19:45 +0300 Subject: Jane Austen's peculiarity In-Reply-To: <14f15b5773b-69ff-459e1@webprd-m61.mail.aol.com> References: <419F02EE-29B0-4071-AFDB-9D8BE0D60820@livecode.org> <14f15b5773b-69ff-459e1@webprd-m61.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: <55C86CB1.7010207@gmail.com> My current version is here: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ja47l87gg87sn0q/AAAIj99kEQVOb8ev3jz8C5ORa?dl=0 File : TA.zip play with it, rip it to pieces, improve it: go on, I dare you :) Richmond. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 07:39:00 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 14:39:00 +0300 Subject: Colouring words Message-ID: <55C88D54.7060608@gmail.com> what is wrong with this: if line 5 of fld "WHAT" contains "only" then set the textColor of "only" in line 5 of fld "WHAT" to red end if ??? I would like to set certain phrases in a sentence to a different textColor to the other words . . . . . . should be dead easy. Richmond. From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Mon Aug 10 07:45:03 2015 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 13:45:03 +0200 Subject: Colouring words In-Reply-To: <55C88D54.7060608@gmail.com> References: <55C88D54.7060608@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55C88EBF.6010105@economy-x-talk.com> Hi Richmond, It may not be as easy as you think: repeat with x = 1 to number of words of line y of fld "What" if word x of line y of fld "What" is "only" then set the textColor of word x of line y of fld "What" to red end if end repeat or put the htmlText of fld "What" into myText replace "only" with "only what is wrong with this: > > if line 5 of fld "WHAT" contains "only" then > set the textColor of "only" in line 5 of fld "WHAT" to red > end if > > ??? > > I would like to set certain phrases in a sentence to a different > textColor to the other words . . . > > . . . should be dead easy. > > Richmond. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 08:57:52 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 15:57:52 +0300 Subject: Colouring words In-Reply-To: <55C88EBF.6010105@economy-x-talk.com> References: <55C88D54.7060608@gmail.com> <55C88EBF.6010105@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: <55C89FD0.4030807@gmail.com> On 10/08/15 14:45, Mark Schonewille wrote: > Hi Richmond, > > It may not be as easy as you think: > > repeat with x = 1 to number of words of line y of fld "What" > if word x of line y of fld "What" is "only" then > set the textColor of word x of line y of fld "What" to red > end if > end repeat > > or > > put the htmlText of fld "What" into myText > replace "only" with "only set the htmlText of fld "What" to myText > > Both approaches have advantages and disadvantages. > > -- > Best regards, > > Mark Schonewille > > > On 8/10/2015 13:39, Richmond wrote: >> what is wrong with this: >> >> if line 5 of fld "WHAT" contains "only" then >> set the textColor of "only" in line 5 of fld "WHAT" to red >> end if >> >> ??? >> >> I would like to set certain phrases in a sentence to a different >> textColor to the other words . . . >> >> . . . should be dead easy. >> >> Richmond. Oh, well . . . I was well aware I could do this: on mouseUp set the textColor of word 3 of line 1 of fld "WHAT" to red end mouseUp it just seemed incredibly longwinded to have to write stuff like this: on mouseUp if word 3 of line 1 of fld "WHAT" is "only" then set the textColor of word 3 of line 1 of fld "WHAT" to red end if end mouseUp and then, as you have suggested, write a routine to trawl through all the words in a line. Richmond. From dunbarx at aol.com Mon Aug 10 09:51:59 2015 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx at aol.com) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 09:51:59 -0400 Subject: Colouring words In-Reply-To: <55C89FD0.4030807@gmail.com> Message-ID: <14f17e1d0bc-1189-4379f@webprd-a24.mail.aol.com> @Mark There is nothing wrong with setting the textColor of an entire line. Any valid chunk expression would do. @, Richmond: What are you seeing? Why does it not work? I am in v 6.7. Craig Newman -----Original Message----- From: Richmond To: How to use LiveCode Sent: Mon, Aug 10, 2015 8:58 am Subject: Re: Colouring words On 10/08/15 14:45, Mark Schonewille wrote: > Hi Richmond, > > It may not be as easy as you think: > > repeat with x = 1 to number of words of line y of fld "What" > if word x of line y of fld "What" is "only" then > set the textColor of word x of line y of fld "What" to red > end if > end repeat > > or > > put the htmlText of fld "What" into myText > replace "only" with "only set the htmlText of fld "What" to myText > > Both approaches have advantages and disadvantages. > > -- > Best regards, > > Mark Schonewille > > > On 8/10/2015 13:39, Richmond wrote: >> what is wrong with this: >> >> if line 5 of fld "WHAT" contains "only" then >> set the textColor of "only" in line 5 of fld "WHAT" to red >> end if >> >> ??? >> >> I would like to set certain phrases in a sentence to a different >> textColor to the other words . . . >> >> . . . should be dead easy. >> >> Richmond. Oh, well . . . I was well aware I could do this: on mouseUp set the textColor of word 3 of line 1 of fld "WHAT" to red end mouseUp it just seemed incredibly longwinded to have to write stuff like this: on mouseUp if word 3 of line 1 of fld "WHAT" is "only" then set the textColor of word 3 of line 1 of fld "WHAT" to red end if end mouseUp and then, as you have suggested, write a routine to trawl through all the words in a line. Richmond. _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Mon Aug 10 09:56:30 2015 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 09:56:30 -0400 Subject: [YO EDINBURGH!] Microsoft Open-Sources It's Toolkit For Making iOS Apps Run On Win 10 In-Reply-To: <7EE8E5DF-3754-45AD-A0D4-7AA66A66839A@sweattechnologies.com> References: <23EE8F88-37C6-4ACB-959F-91F84A64918B@sweattechnologies.com> <55C83510.5080903@fourthworld.com> <7EE8E5DF-3754-45AD-A0D4-7AA66A66839A@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: Back in The Days Of The Language Wars, it was important, but now, with so many specialty languages for so many reasons, it becomes much less of an issue. The PL bigots have been upended by uncompiled web languages. Whether it's this or Xojo or something else, LC still has a lead for building cross-platform apps. Hopefully 8 will extend that lead and exploit it, more, because, really, web portals aren't the same. -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Mon Aug 10 10:26:24 2015 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 10:26:24 -0400 Subject: [YO EDINBURGH!] Microsoft Open-Sources It's Toolkit For Making iOS Apps Run On Win 10 In-Reply-To: References: <23EE8F88-37C6-4ACB-959F-91F84A64918B@sweattechnologies.com> <55C83510.5080903@fourthworld.com> <7EE8E5DF-3754-45AD-A0D4-7AA66A66839A@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: Although LC calls itself cross-platform, I despise the fact that commands in the dictionary, particularly for mobile, have quirks that make it a little different for Android than iOS. If it wants to call itself cross-platform, a term that is in the dictionary should work exactly the same across all supported platforms. I would also be more likely to invest more into externals if they didn't focus on a single preferred OS rather than looking at the market potential for LC devs to build x-plat apps. LC tools should all be required to be x-plat - period. /just one opinion. ~Roger On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 9:56 AM, Mike Kerner wrote: > Back in The Days Of The Language Wars, it was important, but now, with so > many specialty languages for so many reasons, it becomes much less of an > issue. The PL bigots have been upended by uncompiled web languages. > > Whether it's this or Xojo or something else, LC still has a lead for > building cross-platform apps. Hopefully 8 will extend that lead and > exploit it, more, because, really, web portals aren't the same. > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." From sc at sahores-conseil.com Mon Aug 10 10:49:49 2015 From: sc at sahores-conseil.com (Pierre Sahores) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 16:49:49 +0200 Subject: [YO EDINBURGH!] Microsoft Open-Sources It's Toolkit For Making iOS Apps Run On Win 10 In-Reply-To: References: <23EE8F88-37C6-4ACB-959F-91F84A64918B@sweattechnologies.com> <55C83510.5080903@fourthworld.com> <7EE8E5DF-3754-45AD-A0D4-7AA66A66839A@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <77CF2C90-FC30-4C03-BDCB-5E883FAD44F0@sahores-conseil.com> Hi Roger, It?s simply no way to achieve 100% of cross platform ability as long as some features available, say, on the native Xcode?s iOS platform are not on the native Android SDK/NDK/JNI side and vice-versa ! Instead of complaining about this fact and, again, instead of limiting the cross platform ability of LiveCode to the less commun denominator of the different platforms LC covers, Edinburgh and external providers (Monte, ?) extends it, each time it can be reliable and useful with special targeted features on one or an other platform and, gracefully, it?s, IMHO, the most we can get for staying as productive as possible from all of these beloved LC cookers ;D Best, Pierre -- Pierre Sahores mobile : 06 03 95 77 70 www.sahores-conseil.com > Le 10 ao?t 2015 ? 16:26, Roger Eller a ?crit : > > Although LC calls itself cross-platform, I despise the fact that commands > in the dictionary, particularly for mobile, have quirks that make it a > little different for Android than iOS. If it wants to call itself > cross-platform, a term that is in the dictionary should work exactly the > same across all supported platforms. I would also be more likely to invest > more into externals if they didn't focus on a single preferred OS rather > than looking at the market potential for LC devs to build x-plat apps. LC > tools should all be required to be x-plat - period. /just one opinion. > > ~Roger > > On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 9:56 AM, Mike Kerner > wrote: > >> Back in The Days Of The Language Wars, it was important, but now, with so >> many specialty languages for so many reasons, it becomes much less of an >> issue. The PL bigots have been upended by uncompiled web languages. >> >> Whether it's this or Xojo or something else, LC still has a lead for >> building cross-platform apps. Hopefully 8 will extend that lead and >> exploit it, more, because, really, web portals aren't the same. >> >> -- >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >> On the second day, God created the oceans. >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >> and did a little diving. >> And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Mon Aug 10 11:12:31 2015 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 11:12:31 -0400 Subject: [YO EDINBURGH!] Microsoft Open-Sources It's Toolkit For Making iOS Apps Run On Win 10 In-Reply-To: <77CF2C90-FC30-4C03-BDCB-5E883FAD44F0@sahores-conseil.com> References: <23EE8F88-37C6-4ACB-959F-91F84A64918B@sweattechnologies.com> <55C83510.5080903@fourthworld.com> <7EE8E5DF-3754-45AD-A0D4-7AA66A66839A@sweattechnologies.com> <77CF2C90-FC30-4C03-BDCB-5E883FAD44F0@sahores-conseil.com> Message-ID: +1 Roger, +1 Pierre. On the first one, Roger, I completely agree, MORE SEAMLESS cross-platform, more attention to Android (and Win 10, etc.) is important, even if it's only because it says to the rest of the world "Cross-platform for realises". I also agree with Pierre on where the investment goes. We're doing most of our work, right now, on iOS, so that's mostly what I'm paying folks to extend. I would bet that Monte is responding to demand, because if I said "Hey, Monte, I want blah, blah, blah for Android", I would get it. Right now it's "Hey, I want blah, blah, blah for iOS", so, , I get blah, blah, blah for iOS. On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 10:49 AM, Pierre Sahores wrote: > Hi Roger, > > It?s simply no way to achieve 100% of cross platform ability as long as > some features available, say, on the native Xcode?s iOS platform are not on > the native Android SDK/NDK/JNI side and vice-versa ! Instead of complaining > about this fact and, again, instead of limiting the cross platform ability > of LiveCode to the less commun denominator of the different platforms LC > covers, Edinburgh and external providers (Monte, ?) extends it, each time > it can be reliable and useful with special targeted features on one or an > other platform and, gracefully, it?s, IMHO, the most we can get for staying > as productive as possible from all of these beloved LC cookers ;D > > Best, > > Pierre > -- > Pierre Sahores > mobile : 06 03 95 77 70 > www.sahores-conseil.com > > > Le 10 ao?t 2015 ? 16:26, Roger Eller a > ?crit : > > > > Although LC calls itself cross-platform, I despise the fact that commands > > in the dictionary, particularly for mobile, have quirks that make it a > > little different for Android than iOS. If it wants to call itself > > cross-platform, a term that is in the dictionary should work exactly the > > same across all supported platforms. I would also be more likely to > invest > > more into externals if they didn't focus on a single preferred OS rather > > than looking at the market potential for LC devs to build x-plat apps. > LC > > tools should all be required to be x-plat - period. /just one opinion. > > > > ~Roger > > > > On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 9:56 AM, Mike Kerner > > wrote: > > > >> Back in The Days Of The Language Wars, it was important, but now, with > so > >> many specialty languages for so many reasons, it becomes much less of an > >> issue. The PL bigots have been upended by uncompiled web languages. > >> > >> Whether it's this or Xojo or something else, LC still has a lead for > >> building cross-platform apps. Hopefully 8 will extend that lead and > >> exploit it, more, because, really, web portals aren't the same. > >> > >> -- > >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > >> On the second day, God created the oceans. > >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > >> and did a little diving. > >> And God said, "This is good." > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 11:13:34 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 18:13:34 +0300 Subject: Colouring words In-Reply-To: <14f17e1d0bc-1189-4379f@webprd-a24.mail.aol.com> References: <14f17e1d0bc-1189-4379f@webprd-a24.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: <55C8BF9E.2090909@gmail.com> On 10/08/15 16:51, dunbarx at aol.com wrote: > @Mark > > > There is nothing wrong with setting the textColor of an entire line. Any valid chunk expression would do. No, there is nothing wrong with that, but that is not what I want to do. Richmond. > > > @, Richmond: > > > What are you seeing? Why does it not work? I am in v 6.7. > > > Craig Newman > > > From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Mon Aug 10 11:14:45 2015 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 11:14:45 -0400 Subject: [YO EDINBURGH!] Microsoft Open-Sources It's Toolkit For Making iOS Apps Run On Win 10 In-Reply-To: <77CF2C90-FC30-4C03-BDCB-5E883FAD44F0@sahores-conseil.com> References: <23EE8F88-37C6-4ACB-959F-91F84A64918B@sweattechnologies.com> <55C83510.5080903@fourthworld.com> <7EE8E5DF-3754-45AD-A0D4-7AA66A66839A@sweattechnologies.com> <77CF2C90-FC30-4C03-BDCB-5E883FAD44F0@sahores-conseil.com> Message-ID: It is also irritating when the assumption is always that so many features are unavailable to the Android platform, and bright shiny iOS has everything you could ever dream of. I call BS on that as all major apps out there work exactly the same on both platforms. I have never read that "Netflix can't play movies because Google didn't provide an easy Android SDK for AV to it's developers." On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 10:49 AM, Pierre Sahores wrote: > Hi Roger, > > It?s simply no way to achieve 100% of cross platform ability as long as > some features available, say, on the native Xcode?s iOS platform are not on > the native Android SDK/NDK/JNI side and vice-versa ! Instead of complaining > about this fact and, again, instead of limiting the cross platform ability > of LiveCode to the less commun denominator of the different platforms LC > covers, Edinburgh and external providers (Monte, ?) extends it, each time > it can be reliable and useful with special targeted features on one or an > other platform and, gracefully, it?s, IMHO, the most we can get for staying > as productive as possible from all of these beloved LC cookers ;D > > Best, > > Pierre > -- > Pierre Sahores > mobile : 06 03 95 77 70 > www.sahores-conseil.com > > > Le 10 ao?t 2015 ? 16:26, Roger Eller a > ?crit : > > > > Although LC calls itself cross-platform, I despise the fact that commands > > in the dictionary, particularly for mobile, have quirks that make it a > > little different for Android than iOS. If it wants to call itself > > cross-platform, a term that is in the dictionary should work exactly the > > same across all supported platforms. I would also be more likely to > invest > > more into externals if they didn't focus on a single preferred OS rather > > than looking at the market potential for LC devs to build x-plat apps. > LC > > tools should all be required to be x-plat - period. /just one opinion. > > > > ~Roger > > > > On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 9:56 AM, Mike Kerner > > wrote: > > > >> Back in The Days Of The Language Wars, it was important, but now, with > so > >> many specialty languages for so many reasons, it becomes much less of an > >> issue. The PL bigots have been upended by uncompiled web languages. > >> > >> Whether it's this or Xojo or something else, LC still has a lead for > >> building cross-platform apps. Hopefully 8 will extend that lead and > >> exploit it, more, because, really, web portals aren't the same. > >> > >> -- > >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > >> On the second day, God created the oceans. > >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > >> and did a little diving. > >> And God said, "This is good." > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Mon Aug 10 11:25:11 2015 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 11:25:11 -0400 Subject: [YO EDINBURGH!] Microsoft Open-Sources It's Toolkit For Making iOS Apps Run On Win 10 In-Reply-To: References: <23EE8F88-37C6-4ACB-959F-91F84A64918B@sweattechnologies.com> <55C83510.5080903@fourthworld.com> <7EE8E5DF-3754-45AD-A0D4-7AA66A66839A@sweattechnologies.com> <77CF2C90-FC30-4C03-BDCB-5E883FAD44F0@sahores-conseil.com> Message-ID: I have to say this, because I believe ti to be true. LiveCode developers are part of the problem. I think the majority of you have iOS devices because it is what you LIKE, not because it represents what the majority or even half of the population HAVE. Inexpensive Android devices are getting better and better specs all the time, and lots of people buy them. THEY should be our focus, not just our favorites. On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 11:12 AM, Mike Kerner wrote: > +1 Roger, +1 Pierre. > > On the first one, Roger, I completely agree, MORE SEAMLESS cross-platform, > more attention to Android (and Win 10, etc.) is important, even if it's > only because it says to the rest of the world "Cross-platform for > realises". > I also agree with Pierre on where the investment goes. We're doing most of > our work, right now, on iOS, so that's mostly what I'm paying folks to > extend. I would bet that Monte is responding to demand, because if I said > "Hey, Monte, I want blah, blah, blah for Android", I would get it. Right > now it's "Hey, I want blah, blah, blah for iOS", so, , I get > blah, blah, blah for iOS. > > On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 10:49 AM, Pierre Sahores > wrote: > > > Hi Roger, > > > > It?s simply no way to achieve 100% of cross platform ability as long as > > some features available, say, on the native Xcode?s iOS platform are not > on > > the native Android SDK/NDK/JNI side and vice-versa ! Instead of > complaining > > about this fact and, again, instead of limiting the cross platform > ability > > of LiveCode to the less commun denominator of the different platforms LC > > covers, Edinburgh and external providers (Monte, ?) extends it, each time > > it can be reliable and useful with special targeted features on one or an > > other platform and, gracefully, it?s, IMHO, the most we can get for > staying > > as productive as possible from all of these beloved LC cookers ;D > > > > Best, > > > > Pierre > > -- > > Pierre Sahores > > mobile : 06 03 95 77 70 > > www.sahores-conseil.com > > > > > Le 10 ao?t 2015 ? 16:26, Roger Eller a > > ?crit : > > > > > > Although LC calls itself cross-platform, I despise the fact that > commands > > > in the dictionary, particularly for mobile, have quirks that make it a > > > little different for Android than iOS. If it wants to call itself > > > cross-platform, a term that is in the dictionary should work exactly > the > > > same across all supported platforms. I would also be more likely to > > invest > > > more into externals if they didn't focus on a single preferred OS > rather > > > than looking at the market potential for LC devs to build x-plat apps. > > LC > > > tools should all be required to be x-plat - period. /just one opinion. > > > > > > ~Roger > > > > > > On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 9:56 AM, Mike Kerner < > MikeKerner at roadrunner.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > >> Back in The Days Of The Language Wars, it was important, but now, with > > so > > >> many specialty languages for so many reasons, it becomes much less of > an > > >> issue. The PL bigots have been upended by uncompiled web languages. > > >> > > >> Whether it's this or Xojo or something else, LC still has a lead for > > >> building cross-platform apps. Hopefully 8 will extend that lead and > > >> exploit it, more, because, really, web portals aren't the same. > > >> > > >> -- > > >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > >> On the second day, God created the oceans. > > >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > >> and did a little diving. > > >> And God said, "This is good." > > > _______________________________________________ > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Aug 10 11:33:45 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 08:33:45 -0700 Subject: [YO EDINBURGH!] Microsoft Open-Sources It's Toolkit For Making iOS Apps Run On Win 10 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55C8C459.1090207@fourthworld.com> Roger Eller wrote: > ...a term that is in the dictionary should work exactly the > same across all supported platforms. Is that how it works in Microsoft Visual Studio? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for Desktop, Mobile, and Web ____________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Aug 10 11:45:36 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 08:45:36 -0700 Subject: [YO EDINBURGH!] Microsoft Open-Sources It's Toolkit For Making iOS Apps Run On Win 10 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55C8C720.6000606@fourthworld.com> Roger Eller wrote: > I have to say this, because I believe ti to be true. LiveCode developers > are part of the problem. I think the majority of you have iOS devices > because it is what you LIKE, not because it represents what the majority or > even half of the population HAVE. Inexpensive Android devices are getting > better and better specs all the time, and lots of people buy them. THEY > should be our focus, not just our favorites. I would agree that the whole process does seem rather Apple-centric at times, but did you see the Release Notes for 7.1dp1? The LC engine now supports Android intents -- see the new mobileLaunchData function. This is also a good example of how different OS APIs can make a LiveCode feature complicated when the team attempts to make it the same on all platforms: iOS doesn't have intents, using Actions instead. Android intents are relatively simple to code for and work very similarly to url schemes, so it's been pretty straightforward for the team to add that. They do indeed intend to also action Actions support for iOS, but like so many Cocoa things it's not nearly as simple, and given the full range of priorities on their plate won't be in v7.1. Complete feature parity sounds simple, but once you dive into the implementation details it's clear that OSes just don't often work the same, requiring tough decisions about what gets delivered now and what gets delivered later. But at least those of us deploying to the 80% using Android finally have a feature that isn't all about Apple. And a very useful one at that. And in the meantime, anyone in a position to add Actions support to the engine sooner than the core team can is welcome to submit the pull request. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for Desktop, Mobile, and Web ____________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From revolution at derbrill.de Mon Aug 10 11:48:52 2015 From: revolution at derbrill.de (Malte Brill) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 17:48:52 +0200 Subject: [YO EDINBURGH!] Microsoft Open-Sources It's Toolkit For Making iOS Apps Run On Win 10 Message-ID: > I think the majority of you have iOS devices > because it is what you LIKE, not because it represents what the majority or > even half of the population HAVE. While I agree that feature (and syntax) parity is not (yet) achieved in liveCode (And why on earth do the mobile commands STILL throw errors in the IDE?) I disagree that it necessariely makes sense to run after a certain platform only because there are more devices sold. A broader market of devices to deploy to, not necessariely gives us better ROI. If the users buy the cheap devices, they are less likely to open the purse for apps (monetize via ads?) If we develop for business users, not end users (who are much more likely to open the purse for development / consulting) then we can expend only high end / prestige devices. While I know that many of you alreay deploy to mobile and some of you surely monetize there, I also still find too many hoops to jump through before I regard it as a viable platform.I certainly wish for a more optimized engine with syntax parity wherever possible. But with the current engine I would not bet my income on targeting on building liveCode apps for low end devices. 3 ? cents (due to inflation) All the best, Malte From bonnmike at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 12:03:26 2015 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 10:03:26 -0600 Subject: Colouring words In-Reply-To: <55C8BF9E.2090909@gmail.com> References: <14f17e1d0bc-1189-4379f@webprd-a24.mail.aol.com> <55C8BF9E.2090909@gmail.com> Message-ID: You can do this.. Still a bit ugly but it works. set the textcolor of trueword ( truewordoffset("only",line 5 of field 1)) of line 5 of field 1 to red On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 9:13 AM, Richmond wrote: > On 10/08/15 16:51, dunbarx at aol.com wrote: > >> @Mark >> >> >> There is nothing wrong with setting the textColor of an entire line. Any >> valid chunk expression would do. >> > > No, there is nothing wrong with that, but that is not what I want to do. > > Richmond. > > >> >> @, Richmond: >> >> >> What are you seeing? Why does it not work? I am in v 6.7. >> >> >> Craig Newman >> >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From bonnmike at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 12:03:53 2015 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 10:03:53 -0600 Subject: Colouring words In-Reply-To: References: <14f17e1d0bc-1189-4379f@webprd-a24.mail.aol.com> <55C8BF9E.2090909@gmail.com> Message-ID: oh. Assuming you're on a version of lc that supports truewords On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 10:03 AM, Mike Bonner wrote: > You can do this.. Still a bit ugly but it works. > > set the textcolor of trueword ( truewordoffset("only",line 5 of field 1)) > of line 5 of field 1 to red > > > On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 9:13 AM, Richmond > wrote: > >> On 10/08/15 16:51, dunbarx at aol.com wrote: >> >>> @Mark >>> >>> >>> There is nothing wrong with setting the textColor of an entire line. Any >>> valid chunk expression would do. >>> >> >> No, there is nothing wrong with that, but that is not what I want to do. >> >> Richmond. >> >> >>> >>> @, Richmond: >>> >>> >>> What are you seeing? Why does it not work? I am in v 6.7. >>> >>> >>> Craig Newman >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 12:15:05 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 19:15:05 +0300 Subject: Colouring words In-Reply-To: References: <14f17e1d0bc-1189-4379f@webprd-a24.mail.aol.com> <55C8BF9E.2090909@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55C8CE09.7070006@gmail.com> On 10/08/15 19:03, Mike Bonner wrote: > oh. Assuming you're on a version of lc that supports truewords > > Mine all seem to support falsewords . . . Err, sorry, the mask slipped there a minute :/ I see that version 7.0.5 supports truewords, and that's good enough for me. Thanks for that one. Richmond. From bodine at bodinetraininggames.com Mon Aug 10 12:36:53 2015 From: bodine at bodinetraininggames.com (tbodine) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 09:36:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Choosing a database and LC tools Message-ID: <1439224613854-4694777.post@n4.nabble.com> Hi, I want to add a content library module to a LiveCode-built project. It will enable users to store, tag, sort and retrieve their content. I've read various threads and articles about databases, but I have minimal database experience and I want to get it right the first time. So I'd appreciate answers to these questions and any other insights: 1) Is SQLite the best choice for local database file with a Livecode interface? (Each database record will need to hold a few sentences of Unicode text, 1 or 2 small arrays, the text contents of a few cprops, and a field for tags the user can apply to categorize the various records.) I doubt the number of records would ever exceed 10,000 with an average more like 2,000. 2) The content of some records may have associated images or audio files. I can store the paths to those, but paths break easily. How much does it bloat or burden a database to store jpgs, pngs, wavs or aifs files in records? 3) I see there are a few 3rd-party tools for database work with Livecode. (SQLyoga, SQLiteAdmin and SQLMagic). Are there others? Are these current with LC7? 4) Are there contract developers in the LC community that specialize in setting up databases with LC interfaces? Thanks! Tom B. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Choosing-a-database-and-LC-tools-tp4694777.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From dunbarx at aol.com Mon Aug 10 12:53:03 2015 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx at aol.com) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 12:53:03 -0400 Subject: Colouring words In-Reply-To: <55C88D54.7060608@gmail.com> References: <55C88D54.7060608@gmail.com> Message-ID: <14f18879834-1189-4435b@webprd-a24.mail.aol.com> Richmond. I see, you wanted to use the literal word as a chunk expression. But you surely know this is not valid in LC, and will have to use the wordOffset or something similar so you can get an actual valid chunk. Craig -----Original Message----- From: Richmond To: How to use LiveCode Sent: Mon, Aug 10, 2015 7:40 am Subject: Colouring words what is wrong with this: if line 5 of fld "WHAT" contains "only" then set the textColor of "only" in line 5 of fld "WHAT" to red end if ??? I would like to set certain phrases in a sentence to a different textColor to the other words . . . . . . should be dead easy. Richmond. _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Mon Aug 10 13:00:49 2015 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 13:00:49 -0400 Subject: [YO EDINBURGH!] Microsoft Open-Sources It's Toolkit For Making iOS Apps Run On Win 10 In-Reply-To: <55C8C459.1090207@fourthworld.com> References: <55C8C459.1090207@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: I wouldn't know. Why? Because I chose LiveCode (actually MetaCard) because my code could be written only once, and it worked the same on Mac, Win, and Irix at that time. Sure there were always shell calls once in a while, but overall, the original designers of the language put in some real effort to make it that way, and I truly appreciate all the work that went into making it so seamless. On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 11:33 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Roger Eller wrote: > > ...a term that is in the dictionary should work exactly the >> same across all supported platforms. >> > > Is that how it works in Microsoft Visual Studio? > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for Desktop, Mobile, and Web > ____________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > From userev at canelasoftware.com Mon Aug 10 13:13:00 2015 From: userev at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 10:13:00 -0700 Subject: [YO EDINBURGH!] Microsoft Open-Sources It's Toolkit For Making iOS Apps Run On Win 10 In-Reply-To: References: <55C8C459.1090207@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: > On Aug 10, 2015, at 10:00 AM, Roger Eller wrote: > > I wouldn't know. Why? Because I chose LiveCode (actually MetaCard) > because my code could be written only once, and it worked the same on Mac, > Win, and Irix at that time. Sure there were always shell calls once in a > while, but overall, the original designers of the language put in some real > effort to make it that way, and I truly appreciate all the work that went > into making it so seamless. I appreciate your desire for a fully unified experience. Keep in mind, technology has changed a lot since MetaCard. And, features have improve and become more complex since MetaCard. It is one thing to write data to a file using a unified method for all platforms. It is another to address mobile specific features between each OS with varying levels of sophistication. Even Apple uses a different/modified OS between all its hardware line. Where equality breaks in LiveCode, it seems reasonable to me. It looks like this will only continue until the various OS and hardware manufactures get together and unify what is available on each system. Desktops will be the last ones to get GPS and accelerometer support. Not holding my breath on that. Best regards, Mark Talluto canelasoftware.com CassiaDB: The easy to use, free local storage database made for LiveCode Developers: livecloud.io From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 13:23:46 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 20:23:46 +0300 Subject: [YO EDINBURGH!] Microsoft Open-Sources It's Toolkit For Making iOS Apps Run On Win 10 In-Reply-To: References: <55C8C459.1090207@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <55C8DE22.20800@gmail.com> On 10/08/15 20:00, Roger Eller wrote: > I wouldn't know. Why? Because I chose LiveCode (actually MetaCard) > because my code could be written only once, and it worked the same on Mac, > Win, and Irix at that time. Sure there were always shell calls once in a > while, but overall, the original designers of the language put in some real > effort to make it that way, and I truly appreciate all the work that went > into making it so seamless. Indeed! I got involved with LiveCode when I was working at the University of St. Andrews and needed to write a series of programs for Chinese, Japanese and Korean students get their heads around the 'joys' of English phonetics that would work, with Quicktime, on both Windows and Macintosh 9 & 10. I later developed a software package ("Listen Hear") for school kids to learn about different types of music, that could run on both Macs and Windows systems. There didn't really seem anything else that could do that without a near-vertical learning curve at the time. > > > On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 11:33 AM, Richard Gaskin > wrote: >> Roger Eller wrote: >> >> ...a term that is in the dictionary should work exactly the >>> same across all supported platforms. >>> >> Is that how it works in Microsoft Visual Studio? Wow! that made me laugh because right behind me, on the bed, there reclines an incredibly attractive . . . book entitled "Practical Visual Basic 6" by Reselman, Pruchniak, Peasley and Smith, which I, in a fit of foolishness spent 22 pounds sterling on when I was "studying" at the "University" of Abertay. For some unknown reason, my cats seem to like the book and often sleep on top of it - quite appropriate really. I am very glad I studied Visual Basic 6. Not because Visual Basic 6 is any good, frankly. Because every exercise Mrs Lobster (ok, ok, her real name was Mrs Crab) gave us was a complete pain in the bum to put together and get working in VB6, so at the end of every practical session I would go home and do the same exercise in LiveCode (or Runtime Revolution as it then was) in about 10% of the time, and much more easily. Considering I had been using LiveCode for about 18 months at that stage, and had never had any classes in it (well, admittedly, Mrs Lobster was incompetent - I remembered things from my BASIC classes from about 30 years before, when I was 13/14 - that she kept getting wrong), it just served to show me what a "Clunk, Clunk, Clunk" VB6 was. AND, Visual Basic is a single-platform language (and it runs on my least-favourite platform). >> >> -- >> Richard Gaskin >> Richmond. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 13:26:02 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 20:26:02 +0300 Subject: [YO EDINBURGH!] Microsoft Open-Sources It's Toolkit For Making iOS Apps Run On Win 10 In-Reply-To: References: <55C8C459.1090207@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <55C8DEAA.30905@gmail.com> On 10/08/15 20:13, Mark Talluto wrote: >> On Aug 10, 2015, at 10:00 AM, Roger Eller wrote: >> >> I wouldn't know. Why? Because I chose LiveCode (actually MetaCard) >> because my code could be written only once, and it worked the same on Mac, >> Win, and Irix at that time. Sure there were always shell calls once in a >> while, but overall, the original designers of the language put in some real >> effort to make it that way, and I truly appreciate all the work that went >> into making it so seamless. > I appreciate your desire for a fully unified experience. Keep in mind, technology has changed a lot since MetaCard. And, features have improve and become more complex since MetaCard. It is one thing to write data to a file using a unified method for all platforms. It is another to address mobile specific features between each OS with varying levels of sophistication. Even Apple uses a different/modified OS between all its hardware line. > > Where equality breaks in LiveCode, it seems reasonable to me. It looks like this will only continue until the various OS and hardware manufactures get together and unify what is available on each system. Desktops will be the last ones to get GPS and accelerometer support. Not holding my breath on that. Quite frankly, as far as I can see, expecting 100% cross-platform portability is expecting too much. The fact that LiveCode manages about 90% is amazing: especially when one considers that there are precious few others that can offer that sort of level of cross-platform stuff. Richmond. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 13:39:13 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 20:39:13 +0300 Subject: Colouring words In-Reply-To: References: <14f17e1d0bc-1189-4379f@webprd-a24.mail.aol.com> <55C8BF9E.2090909@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55C8E1C1.1090800@gmail.com> The thing that emerges from my question is that to colour a word or phrase programmatically in a textField is a fiddly business and it would be nice (??????) if a simpler way to do this were introduced. This works very well: on mouseUp put 1 into VOCABLE repeat until word VOCABLE in fld "TEKST" is "finalSolution666" put VOCABLE into fld "KOUNT" if word VOCABLE of fld "TEKST" is "the" then set the textColor of word VOCABLE of fld "TEKST" to red end if add 1 to VOCABLE end repeat end mouseUp but, because one cannot set the textColor of a word in a stringVariable it is very slow with large texts because it has to work within the field. Richmond. From userev at canelasoftware.com Mon Aug 10 13:41:56 2015 From: userev at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 10:41:56 -0700 Subject: Choosing a database and LC tools In-Reply-To: <1439224613854-4694777.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1439224613854-4694777.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: > On Aug 10, 2015, at 9:36 AM, tbodine wrote: > > 1) Is SQLite the best choice for local database file with a Livecode > interface? (Each database record will need to hold a few sentences of > Unicode text, 1 or 2 small arrays, the text contents of a few cprops, and a > field for tags the user can apply to categorize the various records.) I > doubt the number of records would ever exceed 10,000 with an average more > like 2,000. > > 2) The content of some records may have associated images or audio files. I > can store the paths to those, but paths break easily. How much does it bloat > or burden a database to store jpgs, pngs, wavs or aifs files in records? > > 3) I see there are a few 3rd-party tools for database work with Livecode. > (SQLyoga, SQLiteAdmin and SQLMagic). Are there others? Are these current > with LC7? > > 4) Are there contract developers in the LC community that specialize in > setting up databases with LC interfaces? Hi Tom, Another 3rd party option is CassiaDB. The local database is free. You can learn more about it at LiveCloud.io. If you have any questions about it, feel free to write us. Best regards, Mark Talluto canelasoftware.com CassiaDB: The easy to use, free local storage database made for LiveCode Developers: livecloud.io From mikedoub at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 13:40:57 2015 From: mikedoub at gmail.com (Michael Doub) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 13:40:57 -0400 Subject: Colouring words In-Reply-To: References: <14f17e1d0bc-1189-4379f@webprd-a24.mail.aol.com> <55C8BF9E.2090909@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55C8E229.4040400@gmail.com> Yet another approach: put "this is the only one" into fld 1 put empty into s1 put empty into e1 get MatchChunk (line 1of fld 1,"(?i).+(only).+",s1,e1) -- the regexp capture returns the start and end characters the match set the textcolor of char s1 to e1 of line 1 of fld 1 to red On 8/10/15 12:03 PM, Mike Bonner wrote: > You can do this.. Still a bit ugly but it works. > > set the textcolor of trueword ( truewordoffset("only",line 5 of field 1)) > of line 5 of field 1 to red > > > On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 9:13 AM, Richmond > wrote: > >> On 10/08/15 16:51, dunbarx at aol.com wrote: >> >>> @Mark >>> >>> >>> There is nothing wrong with setting the textColor of an entire line. Any >>> valid chunk expression would do. >>> >> No, there is nothing wrong with that, but that is not what I want to do. >> >> Richmond. >> >> >>> @, Richmond: >>> >>> >>> What are you seeing? Why does it not work? I am in v 6.7. >>> >>> >>> Craig Newman >>> >>> >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From bonnmike at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 13:59:51 2015 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 11:59:51 -0600 Subject: Colouring words In-Reply-To: <55C8E229.4040400@gmail.com> References: <14f17e1d0bc-1189-4379f@webprd-a24.mail.aol.com> <55C8BF9E.2090909@gmail.com> <55C8E229.4040400@gmail.com> Message-ID: It sounds like you might want to look at the styledtext. Its a bit convoluted, but once you get it figured out, it should be very fast. Pseudo code for this would be.. put the text of the field into a variable. repeat for each line (paragraph) and build up an array of "runs" with descriptive text styling for each paragraph. Apply the resulting array to the field. Sounds simple.. Isn't. On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 11:40 AM, Michael Doub wrote: > Yet another approach: > > put "this is the only one" into fld 1 > > put empty into s1 > put empty into e1 > get MatchChunk (line 1of fld 1,"(?i).+(only).+",s1,e1) > -- the regexp capture returns the start and end characters the match > > set the textcolor of char s1 to e1 of line 1 of fld 1 to red > > On 8/10/15 12:03 PM, Mike Bonner wrote: > >> You can do this.. Still a bit ugly but it works. >> >> set the textcolor of trueword ( truewordoffset("only",line 5 of field 1)) >> of line 5 of field 1 to red >> >> >> On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 9:13 AM, Richmond >> wrote: >> >> On 10/08/15 16:51, dunbarx at aol.com wrote: >>> >>> @Mark >>>> >>>> >>>> There is nothing wrong with setting the textColor of an entire line. Any >>>> valid chunk expression would do. >>>> >>>> No, there is nothing wrong with that, but that is not what I want to do. >>> >>> Richmond. >>> >>> >>> @, Richmond: >>>> >>>> >>>> What are you seeing? Why does it not work? I am in v 6.7. >>>> >>>> >>>> Craig Newman >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From pete at lcsql.com Mon Aug 10 14:01:28 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 18:01:28 +0000 Subject: Choosing a database and LC tools In-Reply-To: <1439224613854-4694777.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1439224613854-4694777.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: Hi Tom, SQLite should do what you need but a few notes for you. SQLite doesn't have an array datatype. The usual way of handling this type of data in any SQL database is to store each key and value of the array in a separate table that is linked to your main table by an id of some sort that would have the same value in both tables. You could also get round it by arrayEncoding them before putting them in the database and then arrayDecoding them on the way out. It's pretty easy to store images in columns with a data type of BLOB, although it requires some slightly different LC coding to SELECT them. Also be aware that LC used to encode BLOB data in a proprietary way but then removed the encoding in a release which I can't quite remember. Only an issue if you expect to access the database with versions of LC both before and after the change. Plus it's controllable via an sqliteoption parameter for revOpenDatabase. I will contact you off list re contract work and a couple of other suggestions. Pete On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 9:40 AM tbodine wrote: > Hi, > > I want to add a content library module to a LiveCode-built project. It will > enable users to store, tag, sort and retrieve their content. I've read > various threads and articles about databases, but I have minimal database > experience and I want to get it right the first time. So I'd appreciate > answers to these questions and any other insights: > > 1) Is SQLite the best choice for local database file with a Livecode > interface? (Each database record will need to hold a few sentences of > Unicode text, 1 or 2 small arrays, the text contents of a few cprops, and a > field for tags the user can apply to categorize the various records.) I > doubt the number of records would ever exceed 10,000 with an average more > like 2,000. > > 2) The content of some records may have associated images or audio files. I > can store the paths to those, but paths break easily. How much does it > bloat > or burden a database to store jpgs, pngs, wavs or aifs files in records? > > 3) I see there are a few 3rd-party tools for database work with Livecode. > (SQLyoga, SQLiteAdmin and SQLMagic). Are there others? Are these current > with LC7? > > 4) Are there contract developers in the LC community that specialize in > setting up databases with LC interfaces? > > Thanks! > Tom B. > > > > -- > View this message in context: > http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Choosing-a-database-and-LC-tools-tp4694777.html > Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Mon Aug 10 14:03:07 2015 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 14:03:07 -0400 Subject: [YO EDINBURGH!] Microsoft Open-Sources It's Toolkit For Making iOS Apps Run On Win 10 In-Reply-To: References: <55C8C459.1090207@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Thankfully, hardware convergence is finally coming. If the latest generation Atom processors had been around when the iPad took the world by storm, we would have seen something quite different. I can now get a fully functional Dell tablet that is lighter and thinner than an iPad, but it can run LiveCode any other Windows application. These Win tablets have GPS and accelerometers, so why not support them? Check out the latest Android Lollipop LapTabLopLet (what else would you call it?): The Dell Venue 10 7000 . On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 1:13 PM, Mark Talluto wrote: > > > On Aug 10, 2015, at 10:00 AM, Roger Eller > wrote: > > > > I wouldn't know. Why? Because I chose LiveCode (actually MetaCard) > > because my code could be written only once, and it worked the same on > Mac, > > Win, and Irix at that time. Sure there were always shell calls once in a > > while, but overall, the original designers of the language put in some > real > > effort to make it that way, and I truly appreciate all the work that went > > into making it so seamless. > > I appreciate your desire for a fully unified experience. Keep in mind, > technology has changed a lot since MetaCard. And, features have improve and > become more complex since MetaCard. It is one thing to write data to a file > using a unified method for all platforms. It is another to address mobile > specific features between each OS with varying levels of sophistication. > Even Apple uses a different/modified OS between all its hardware line. > > Where equality breaks in LiveCode, it seems reasonable to me. It looks > like this will only continue until the various OS and hardware manufactures > get together and unify what is available on each system. Desktops will be > the last ones to get GPS and accelerometer support. Not holding my breath > on that. > > > Best regards, > > Mark Talluto > canelasoftware.com > > CassiaDB: The easy to use, free local storage database made for LiveCode > Developers: livecloud.io > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From bvlahos at mac.com Mon Aug 10 14:13:53 2015 From: bvlahos at mac.com (Bill Vlahos) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 11:13:53 -0700 Subject: [OT-ish] naming a MeetUp group In-Reply-To: <1439130096520-4694725.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <5ACFD6EB-19F4-4D85-83E3-1DB806BFE5BC@gmail.com> <55C689AD.1070700@fourthworld.com> <975CDEEF-8507-477C-9FCC-F63C39FA833D@gmail.com> <55C69328.2030404@fourthworld.com> <1439130096520-4694725.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: Martin, I?m involved with a couple of MeetUp groups. My experience is similar to yours regarding the lack of attendance even when people confirm they are coming. Bill Vlahos > On Aug 9, 2015, at 7:21 AM, Martin Koob wrote: > > I set up a meet-up group page in Toronto > > http://www.meetup.com/Greater-Toronto-Area-LiveCode-Users-Group/members/ > > I was hoping to specifically focus on LiveCode so included that in the name. > > You also set a headline for the group. I used the following to hilite the > multi platform capabilities. > > "LiveCode: write once, deploy on iOS, Android, Mac OS X, Windows, Linux, > Server" > > I think if you are trying to appeal to new programmers they may not know > that 'High level' means. It may actually sound more difficult, i.e. you > are working at a high level. > > Maybe in the group headline you can explain that high level languages are > easier to use. > > "Coding doesn't need to be scary, high level languages have all of the power > to do what you want done with less of the complexity. If you have an idea > for an app and want to get started right away join this meet-up. > > I am not sure how much of that will fit in the headline. > > With the Toronto LiveCode meet up group members keep joining, it is up to 35 > now. However I have not had much luck getting people to come out to a meet > up. > > Martin > > > > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/OT-ish-naming-a-MeetUp-group-tp4694690p4694725.html > Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mikedoub at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 14:29:45 2015 From: mikedoub at gmail.com (Michael Doub) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 14:29:45 -0400 Subject: Colouring words In-Reply-To: References: <14f17e1d0bc-1189-4379f@webprd-a24.mail.aol.com> <55C8BF9E.2090909@gmail.com> <55C8E229.4040400@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55C8ED99.7000800@gmail.com> I was going to suggest looking at styledText too, but it is kind of tricky to insert a run within the array. I think Richmond should look at some of the text routines in the masterLibrary. There are several that might be interesting: LineOffsets returns a list of lines that contain a string within container - create a list of each line that contains "only" WordOffsets returns a list of word offsets of a string within a container - create a new list that has line number and the word offsets within the line. wordBounds returns the start and end character of a word specified by line number and work offset. - Based on the line number and word offset, get the start and end character and change the color within the field variable with the screen locked. On 8/10/15 1:59 PM, Mike Bonner wrote: > It sounds like you might want to look at the styledtext. Its a bit > convoluted, but once you get it figured out, it should be very fast. > > Pseudo code for this would be.. > put the text of the field into a variable. > repeat for each line (paragraph) and build up an array of "runs" with > descriptive text styling for each paragraph. > Apply the resulting array to the field. > > Sounds simple.. Isn't. > > > On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 11:40 AM, Michael Doub wrote: > >> Yet another approach: >> >> put "this is the only one" into fld 1 >> >> put empty into s1 >> put empty into e1 >> get MatchChunk (line 1of fld 1,"(?i).+(only).+",s1,e1) >> -- the regexp capture returns the start and end characters the match >> >> set the textcolor of char s1 to e1 of line 1 of fld 1 to red >> >> On 8/10/15 12:03 PM, Mike Bonner wrote: >> >>> You can do this.. Still a bit ugly but it works. >>> >>> set the textcolor of trueword ( truewordoffset("only",line 5 of field 1)) >>> of line 5 of field 1 to red >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 9:13 AM, Richmond >>> wrote: >>> >>> On 10/08/15 16:51, dunbarx at aol.com wrote: >>>> @Mark >>>>> >>>>> There is nothing wrong with setting the textColor of an entire line. Any >>>>> valid chunk expression would do. >>>>> >>>>> No, there is nothing wrong with that, but that is not what I want to do. >>>> Richmond. >>>> >>>> >>>> @, Richmond: >>>>> >>>>> What are you seeing? Why does it not work? I am in v 6.7. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Craig Newman >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Aug 10 14:34:59 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 13:34:59 -0500 Subject: Colouring words In-Reply-To: <55C8E1C1.1090800@gmail.com> References: <14f17e1d0bc-1189-4379f@webprd-a24.mail.aol.com> <55C8BF9E.2090909@gmail.com> <55C8E1C1.1090800@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55C8EED3.2060602@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/10/2015 12:39 PM, Richmond wrote: > > but, because one cannot set the textColor of a word in a stringVariable > it is very slow with large texts because it has to work within the field. That's why I usually use the html suggestion that Mark S. provided. After getting the htmltext of the field, you can replace all instances of the target word with color tags in one line of code. Then set the htmltext of the field to the resulting value of the variable: get the htmltext of fld "what" replace "finalSolution666" with "finalSolution666" in it set the htmltext of fld "what" to it -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From hh at livecode.org Mon Aug 10 15:19:14 2015 From: hh at livecode.org (hh) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 21:19:14 +0200 Subject: Jane Austen's peculiarity Message-ID: <7286D97D-5215-4A8F-A775-6C2AFF539A2C@livecode.org> Hi all, Richmond, you could give this a try in your fine prepared stack: The following uses = an array [one of the proposals above] = trueWords [one of the proposals, needs LC 7] = multichar-itemDelimiters [one of the proposals above, needs LC 7] It outputs for each of your 6 opening words "were ,was ,is ,are ,has ,have ". the frequency counts of words 1 and lists the item numbers of these occurences, for each of the 6 words as itemdelimiter (actually word & space). For example in fld "COOKED were" (by script created) we get: were by 3 122 375 413 what means there are 3 occurrences of "were by" and these are at trueword 1 of items 122, 375 and 413 if "were " is the itemdelimiter. [Use of trueWord collects for example "by " and "by? " and "by, " and "by! " in one categorie "by".] *** This takes < 1 sec, in sum for all 6 opening words from above! *** *** So this is TMHO a true demo of the power of some LC 7 features *** A click on a line of one of the 6 output fields colourizes (yellow backColour) exactly the occurrences in fld "TEKST" and cycles finding these by hitting the enterKey. What to do? [1} Make a new button with the following script part 1. [2] Add the last part of the script to your card script part 2. Have fun, it takes 5 minutes to test all this with your stack ... Hermann ## part 1 for button on mouseUp put the millisecs into strt put "started : " & the long time into fld "STARTT" put empty into fld "STOPT" lock screen; lock messages --> speeds up set cursor to watch put 1 into KTEKST; put 1 into KCOOK put fld "WERBS" into WERBS; delete last line of WERBS put fld "TEKST" into TEKST delete char 1 to offset("PRIDE AND PREJUDICE",TEKST)-1 of TEKST --> watch the space after each item, no space before each item put "were ,was ,is ,are ,has ,have " into openings -- start be lazy if there is no fld "STOPT2" then clone fld "STOPT" set name of last fld to "STOPT2" set left of fld "STOPT2" to the left of fld "STOPT" set top of fld "STOPT2" to the 40+the top of fld "STOPT" end if repeat with j=1 to 6 put ("COOKED" && word 1 of item j of openings) into F if there is no field F then clone fld "Cooked" set name of last fld to F set rect of fld F to (0,0,275,150) set topleft of fld F to \ (item j of "95,95,380,380,670,670", item j of "590,740,590,740,590,740") set tabstops of fld F to 128 end if end repeat -- end be lazy repeat for each item W in openings put ("COOKED" && word 1 of W) into F put empty into RM; put empty into RM1 set itemdelimiter to W; put TEKST into TEKST2 delete item 1 of TEKST2; put 1 into X repeat for each item I in TEKST2 put W & trueword 1 of I into Y --> important is "trueword", compare to "word" add 1 to word 1 of RM[Y] add 1 to X; put space & X after RM[Y] end repeat -- write these 'keys' at top repeat for each line L in WERBS put RM[W & L] into wL if wL is empty then put 0 into wL put cr & W & L & tab & wL after RM1 end repeat combine RM by cr and tab put W & ": diff cases" & tab & (the number of lines of RM) & \ cr & RM1 & cr&cr & RM into fld F set textstyle of line 1 of fld F to "bold" set textstyle of line 3 to 2+(the num of lines of WERBS) of fld F to "italic" set hilitedLines of fld F to 1 set itemdelimiter to comma end repeat put "finished : " & the long time into fld "STOPT" put (the short name of me)&": "&(the millisecs - strt)&" ms" into fld "STOPT2" unlock screen; unlock messages end mouseUp ## part 2 for card script local toFind on mouseUp if "cooked " is in the short name of the target then set cursor to watch; lock screen; lock messages put length(fld "TEKST") into L set textcolor of char 1 to L of fld "TEKST" to "0,0,0" set backColor of char 1 to L of fld "TEKST" to "255,255,255" put the value of the clickline into cL colorWords cL unlock screen; unlock messages end if end mouseUp on colorWords x set itemdel to tab put item 2 of x into wrds put 1 + word 1 of wrds into N set itemdel to ((trueword 1 of x) & space) repeat with j=2 to N set backcolor of trueword 1 of item (word j of wrds) of fld "TEKST" to "255,255,0" end repeat put "find whole" && quote & (trueword 1 to 2 of x) & quote && \ "in fld" && quote & "TEKST" & quote into toFind select before trueword 1 of item (word N of wrds) of fld "TEKST" -- the last hit set itemdel to comma do toFind end colorWords on enterinField do toFind end enterinField -- end of scripts From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 15:53:10 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 22:53:10 +0300 Subject: Jane Austen's peculiarity In-Reply-To: <7286D97D-5215-4A8F-A775-6C2AFF539A2C@livecode.org> References: <7286D97D-5215-4A8F-A775-6C2AFF539A2C@livecode.org> Message-ID: <55C90126.30006@gmail.com> On 10/08/15 22:19, hh wrote: > Hi all, > > Richmond, you could give this a try in your fine prepared stack: > > The following uses > = an array [one of the proposals above] > = trueWords [one of the proposals, needs LC 7] > = multichar-itemDelimiters [one of the proposals above, needs LC 7] > > It outputs for each of your 6 opening words > "were ,was ,is ,are ,has ,have ". > the frequency counts of words 1 and lists the item numbers of these > occurences, for each of the 6 words as itemdelimiter (actually word & space). > > For example in fld "COOKED were" (by script created) we get: > > were by 3 122 375 413 > > what means there are 3 occurrences of "were by" and these > are at trueword 1 of items 122, 375 and 413 if "were " is > the itemdelimiter. > [Use of trueWord collects for example "by " and "by? " and "by, " and "by! " > in one categorie "by".] > > *** This takes < 1 sec, in sum for all 6 opening words from above! *** > *** So this is TMHO a true demo of the power of some LC 7 features *** > > A click on a line of one of the 6 output fields colourizes (yellow backColour) > exactly the occurrences in fld "TEKST" and cycles finding these by hitting the > enterKey. > > What to do? > [1} Make a new button with the following script part 1. > [2] Add the last part of the script to your card script part 2. > Have fun, it takes 5 minutes to test all this with your stack ... > > Hermann > > ## part 1 for button > on mouseUp > put the millisecs into strt > put "started : " & the long time into fld "STARTT" > put empty into fld "STOPT" > lock screen; lock messages --> speeds up > set cursor to watch > put 1 into KTEKST; put 1 into KCOOK > put fld "WERBS" into WERBS; delete last line of WERBS > put fld "TEKST" into TEKST > delete char 1 to offset("PRIDE AND PREJUDICE",TEKST)-1 of TEKST > --> watch the space after each item, no space before each item > put "were ,was ,is ,are ,has ,have " into openings > -- start be lazy > if there is no fld "STOPT2" then > clone fld "STOPT" > set name of last fld to "STOPT2" > set left of fld "STOPT2" to the left of fld "STOPT" > set top of fld "STOPT2" to the 40+the top of fld "STOPT" > end if > repeat with j=1 to 6 > put ("COOKED" && word 1 of item j of openings) into F > if there is no field F then > clone fld "Cooked" > set name of last fld to F > set rect of fld F to (0,0,275,150) > set topleft of fld F to \ > (item j of "95,95,380,380,670,670", item j of "590,740,590,740,590,740") > set tabstops of fld F to 128 > end if > end repeat > -- end be lazy > repeat for each item W in openings > put ("COOKED" && word 1 of W) into F > put empty into RM; put empty into RM1 > set itemdelimiter to W; put TEKST into TEKST2 > delete item 1 of TEKST2; put 1 into X > repeat for each item I in TEKST2 > put W & trueword 1 of I into Y --> important is "trueword", compare to "word" > add 1 to word 1 of RM[Y] > add 1 to X; put space & X after RM[Y] > end repeat > -- write these 'keys' at top > repeat for each line L in WERBS > put RM[W & L] into wL > if wL is empty then put 0 into wL > put cr & W & L & tab & wL after RM1 > end repeat > combine RM by cr and tab > put W & ": diff cases" & tab & (the number of lines of RM) & \ > cr & RM1 & cr&cr & RM into fld F > set textstyle of line 1 of fld F to "bold" > set textstyle of line 3 to 2+(the num of lines of WERBS) of fld F to "italic" > set hilitedLines of fld F to 1 > set itemdelimiter to comma > end repeat > put "finished : " & the long time into fld "STOPT" > put (the short name of me)&": "&(the millisecs - strt)&" ms" into fld "STOPT2" > unlock screen; unlock messages > end mouseUp > > ## part 2 for card script > local toFind > > on mouseUp > if "cooked " is in the short name of the target then > set cursor to watch; lock screen; lock messages > put length(fld "TEKST") into L > set textcolor of char 1 to L of fld "TEKST" to "0,0,0" > set backColor of char 1 to L of fld "TEKST" to "255,255,255" > put the value of the clickline into cL > colorWords cL > unlock screen; unlock messages > end if > end mouseUp > > on colorWords x > set itemdel to tab > put item 2 of x into wrds > put 1 + word 1 of wrds into N > set itemdel to ((trueword 1 of x) & space) > repeat with j=2 to N > set backcolor of trueword 1 of item (word j of wrds) of fld "TEKST" to "255,255,0" > end repeat > put "find whole" && quote & (trueword 1 to 2 of x) & quote && \ > "in fld" && quote & "TEKST" & quote into toFind > select before trueword 1 of item (word N of wrds) of fld "TEKST" -- the last hit > set itemdel to comma > do toFind > end colorWords > > on enterinField > do toFind > end enterinField > > -- end of scripts > _______________________________________________ > I am achieving what I initially set out to achieve, and with far less code than yours, so have no intention of changing anything. I, also, am a lucky sort of chap insofar as I don't really mind that much if my stack takes 3 days to work its way through a corpus . . . I can go and do some teaching, read a book, cook some food, go for a bike ride, talk to my wife, play with my cats, and so on. That has ALWAYS been my approach to programming for one simple reason: working every holiday for very many years indeed on a farm on an island I had to sort out broken bailers, tractors and so on. Now "proper" spares had to come, on a ferry, at a vast transportation overhead, from the mainland of Scotland. We could not afford that, so we fossicked (lovely verb) for whatever would do the job in the 'graveyard' of broken tractors, cars, stuff we had picked up from the local dump, and so on. Every single time we got our accursed bailer to bail the straw and the hay, we got the cotter pins we needed to connect the tractor to the plough, harrow, muck-spreader or whatever; never very elegant, but they worked. In fact my younger son was on that farm just 8 days ago and was shown some of my repair work by the farmer's son (the farmer is long dead); still functional after 25 years. I have, just, worked out a way to colourise the items I want, and while, churning through some socking great corpus that would take days, I only need it to colourise the sentences the previous routine has extracted, so that won't take that long. You, if it really seems such a good idea (and is it?) are more than welcome to download my stack https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ja47l87gg87sn0q/AAAIj99kEQVOb8ev3jz8C5ORa?dl=0 File: TA.zip and mess around with the script to your heart's content. AND, while we are talking about time-consuming exercises: having put 4 hours of work into the thing, that seems, already, a bit more than the thing deserves as I am not interested in winning the Tour de France, simply extracting some data from a million word corpus with absolutely no deadline at all unless I choose to impose one. The results MAY get rolled into a paper my wife and I are THINKING of writing for an academic conference . . . . Almost ALL the stacks I have thrown out into the public domain in the last 6 months have come back to me with comments about how my code is clunky, inefficient, and so forth; and I would not doubt for a minute that that is probably true. HOWEVER, as far as I am concerned there is one enormous advantage about my code above thine, or anybody else's; while thy code and the code of many others is probably more efficient, more clever and gets things done more quickly, I don't understand the finer points of it, while I understand how my code works 100% because it was written by me, follows my logic, and does what I require it to do. It is always entertaining and instructive to see how people react to my code, and I often learn a lot from their reactions (not least about human psychology), including new coding tricks - but there always come a point where the burden of having to plough through other people's code (reflecting the way their minds work) feels like too much in comparison from anything I might learn from it. ----------------------------------- I also suspect that very many people share my interest in getting "the job done" rather than producing posh code. RunRev claim, on their website, that one can learn to code quickly. With Livecode one can learn how to code RELATIVELY quickly, up to a certain point; and many people who are not programmers qua programmers should be attracted by that because they have probably got other things to do other than JUST program. I am, at least to a certain extent, one of those people, as computer programming is not the hinge on which my life rotates (and this became extremely clear just recently when I spent 3 weeks driving round Europe without access to any programming facilities at all), and that is why I may come across as a bit "rude and crude" to other programmers: mainly because I have evry little patience with reducing 25 lines of code to 10 if it will take 12 hours to do that. The cow has a breach-presentation calf inside it which will kill her and the calf within half an hour, to hell with calling the vet, I'm going to get my right arm up inside her and manipulate the calf so that it is facing head forwards: whether I do that the way posh younger sons of the aristocracy learn how to with their rubber gloves off at agricultural school or not I just don't care: I am trying to save 2 lives, however I do it. ------------------------------------ I apologise if that comes across as a rant (well . . . it IS a rant), but it is something that I feel quite strongly about, and fell needs to be said as a necessary corrective, from time to time. ----------------------------------- One of the things I DO LOVE about LiveCode is that there is room for "Farmer Richmond" as well as all the "Real Coders", and I do think that that is something that Runtime Revolution would do well to tak more tent of in their advertising. Richmond. From monte at sweattechnologies.com Mon Aug 10 16:14:27 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 06:14:27 +1000 Subject: [YO EDINBURGH!] Microsoft Open-Sources It's Toolkit For Making iOS Apps Run On Win 10 In-Reply-To: References: <23EE8F88-37C6-4ACB-959F-91F84A64918B@sweattechnologies.com> <55C83510.5080903@fourthworld.com> <7EE8E5DF-3754-45AD-A0D4-7AA66A66839A@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: Unfortunately the platforms are relatively different in the way they do things so it's not easy to make things exactly the same unless you whittle things down to the lowest common denominator and that's not always helpful. As far as externals goes I'm keen to help there but there's two road blocks. Firstly it has been rare that people have asked/paid me to build android externals. That's how mergExt externals are born. Secondly the android externals sdk is so darn limited that I've had to give up on a couple of projects. So there you go, give me clients and something solid to work with and I can shower you with Android externals ;-) Cheers Monte Sent from my iPhone > On 11 Aug 2015, at 12:26 am, Roger Eller wrote: > > Although LC calls itself cross-platform, I despise the fact that commands > in the dictionary, particularly for mobile, have quirks that make it a > little different for Android than iOS. If it wants to call itself > cross-platform, a term that is in the dictionary should work exactly the > same across all supported platforms. I would also be more likely to invest > more into externals if they didn't focus on a single preferred OS rather > than looking at the market potential for LC devs to build x-plat apps. LC > tools should all be required to be x-plat - period. /just one opinion. > > ~Roger > > On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 9:56 AM, Mike Kerner > wrote: > >> Back in The Days Of The Language Wars, it was important, but now, with so >> many specialty languages for so many reasons, it becomes much less of an >> issue. The PL bigots have been upended by uncompiled web languages. >> >> Whether it's this or Xojo or something else, LC still has a lead for >> building cross-platform apps. Hopefully 8 will extend that lead and >> exploit it, more, because, really, web portals aren't the same. >> >> -- >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >> On the second day, God created the oceans. >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >> and did a little diving. >> And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From hh at livecode.org Mon Aug 10 16:51:56 2015 From: hh at livecode.org (hh) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 22:51:56 +0200 Subject: Jane Austen's peculiarity Message-ID: <93F372D4-0A37-4C91-A9D0-21B5C8C596F3@livecode.org> Richmond, this was your last post to this thread before mine. > My current version is here: > https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ja47l87gg87sn0q/AAAIj99kEQVOb8ev3jz8C5ORa?dl=0 > > File : TA.zip > play with it, rip it to pieces, improve it: go on, I dare you :) > > Richmond. So I downloaded this stack and wrote a script that implemented three ideas, two by other LCoders, one by me. Because you graciously ignored these ideas, I was simply curious about their effects on speed and selectivity (by using trueWords). I didn't play with your stack, I didn't rip it into pieces, but somehow improved it a bit in the sense of using effectively some available features of LC 7. It was no dare, I had fun. And you had obviously fun too, what a great speech! Who dares wins, you --- and me. Hermann p.s. Shouldn't the opening of your speech read "I was _achieved_"? ;-) Richmond wrote: > I am achieving what I initially set out to achieve, and with far less > code than yours, so have no intention > of changing anything. > > I, also, am a lucky sort of chap insofar as I don't really mind that > much if my stack takes 3 days to work its way > through a corpus . . . I can go and do some teaching, read a book, cook > some food, go for a bike ride, talk to my wife, > play with my cats, and so on. > > That has ALWAYS been my approach to programming for one simple reason: > working every holiday for very many years indeed on a farm > on an island I had to sort out broken bailers, tractors and so on. > > Now "proper" spares had to come, on a ferry, at a vast transportation > overhead, from the mainland of Scotland. We could not afford > that, so we fossicked (lovely verb) for whatever would do the job in the > 'graveyard' of broken tractors, cars, stuff we had picked up from the > local dump, and so on. Every single time we got our accursed bailer to > bail the straw and the hay, we got the cotter pins we needed to > connect the tractor to the plough, harrow, muck-spreader or whatever; > never very elegant, but they worked. In fact my younger son was on that > farm just 8 days ago and was shown some of my repair work by the > farmer's son (the farmer is long dead); still functional after 25 years. > > I have, just, worked out a way to colourise the items I want, and while, > churning through some socking great corpus that would take days, I only > need it to colourise the sentences the previous routine has extracted, > so that won't take that long. > > You, if it really seems such a good idea (and is it?) are more than > welcome to download my stack > > > https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ja47l87gg87sn0q/AAAIj99kEQVOb8ev3jz8C5ORa?dl=0 > File: > TA.zip > > and mess around with the script to your heart's content. > > AND, while we are talking about time-consuming exercises: having put 4 > hours of work into the thing, that seems, already, a bit more than the > thing deserves as I am not interested in winning the Tour de France, > simply extracting some data from a million word corpus with absolutely > no deadline at all unless I choose to impose one. The results MAY get > rolled into a paper my wife and I are THINKING of writing for an > academic conference . . . . > > Almost ALL the stacks I have thrown out into the public domain in the > last 6 months have come back to me with comments about how my code is > clunky, inefficient, and so forth; and I would not doubt for a minute > that that is probably true. > > HOWEVER, as far as I am concerned there is one enormous advantage about > my code above thine, or anybody else's; while thy code and the code of > many others is probably more efficient, more clever and gets things done > more quickly, I don't understand the finer points of it, while I > understand how my code works 100% because it was written by me, follows > my logic, and does what I require it to do. > > It is always entertaining and instructive to see how people react to my > code, and I often learn a lot from their reactions (not least about > human psychology), including new coding tricks - but there always come a > point where the burden of having to plough through other > people's code (reflecting the way their minds work) feels like too much > in comparison from anything I might learn from it. > > ----------------------------------- > > I also suspect that very many people share my interest in getting "the > job done" rather than producing posh code. > > RunRev claim, on their website, that one can learn to code quickly. With > Livecode one can learn how to code RELATIVELY quickly, up > to a certain point; and many people who are not programmers qua > programmers should be attracted by that because they have probably > got other things to do other than JUST program. > > I am, at least to a certain extent, one of those people, as computer > programming is not the hinge on which my life rotates (and this became > extremely clear just recently when I spent 3 weeks driving round Europe > without access to any programming facilities at all), and that is > why I may come across as a bit "rude and crude" to other programmers: > mainly because I have evry little patience with reducing 25 lines > of code to 10 if it will take 12 hours to do that. > > The cow has a breach-presentation calf inside it which will kill her and > the calf within half an hour, to hell with calling the vet, > I'm going to get my right arm up inside her and manipulate the calf so > that it is facing head forwards: > whether I do that the way posh younger sons of the aristocracy learn how > to with their rubber gloves off at agricultural school > or not I just don't care: I am trying to save 2 lives, however I do it. > > ------------------------------------ > > I apologise if that comes across as a rant (well . . . it IS a rant), > but it is something that I feel quite strongly about, and fell needs to > be said > as a necessary corrective, from time to time. > > ----------------------------------- > > One of the things I DO LOVE about LiveCode is that there is room for > "Farmer Richmond" as well as all the "Real Coders", and I do > think that that is something that Runtime Revolution would do well to > tak more tent of in their advertising. > > Richmond. > > From scott at tactilemedia.com Mon Aug 10 18:04:55 2015 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 15:04:55 -0700 Subject: Android Status Bar? Message-ID: Is it possible to customize the appearance of the status bar, i.e. making it transparent, so we can make the overall stack appearance look more like the current Android OS? Thanks & Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design From prothero at earthednet.org Mon Aug 10 21:15:07 2015 From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 18:15:07 -0700 Subject: Choosing a database and LC tools In-Reply-To: References: <1439224613854-4694777.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: Tom: I use Navicat to manage my databases. It will access a variety of online databases, and works with SQLite too. I use it all the time. In my app work, I use livecode with POST commands to php that talks to an online mySQL database. PHP is totally robust and won?t fail on you, and it?s built into most Apache installations. On Mac, there is also a great free tool called MAMP, which allows you to run a complete web server with php on your local machine, for debugging. Again, Navicat is your friend and will save you hours of wondering whether your data actually got into the db or not. I read that storage of images in a mySQL database isn?t recommended. But, I have stored them in SQLite db?s and it worked fine. Haven?t tried it on mySQL. I will send you some php scripts, if you are interested. Contact me offline. Best, Bill > On Aug 10, 2015, at 11:01 AM, Peter Haworth wrote: > > Hi Tom, > SQLite should do what you need but a few notes for you. > > SQLite doesn't have an array datatype. The usual way of handling this type > of data in any SQL database is to store each key and value of the array in > a separate table that is linked to your main table by an id of some sort > that would have the same value in both tables. > > You could also get round it by arrayEncoding them before putting them in > the database and then arrayDecoding them on the way out. > > It's pretty easy to store images in columns with a data type of BLOB, > although it requires some slightly different LC coding to SELECT them. > Also be aware that LC used to encode BLOB data in a proprietary way but > then removed the encoding in a release which I can't quite remember. Only > an issue if you expect to access the database with versions of LC both > before and after the change. Plus it's controllable via an sqliteoption > parameter for revOpenDatabase. > > I will contact you off list re contract work and a couple of other > suggestions. > > Pete > > > On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 9:40 AM tbodine > wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> I want to add a content library module to a LiveCode-built project. It will >> enable users to store, tag, sort and retrieve their content. I've read >> various threads and articles about databases, but I have minimal database >> experience and I want to get it right the first time. So I'd appreciate >> answers to these questions and any other insights: >> >> 1) Is SQLite the best choice for local database file with a Livecode >> interface? (Each database record will need to hold a few sentences of >> Unicode text, 1 or 2 small arrays, the text contents of a few cprops, and a >> field for tags the user can apply to categorize the various records.) I >> doubt the number of records would ever exceed 10,000 with an average more >> like 2,000. >> >> 2) The content of some records may have associated images or audio files. I >> can store the paths to those, but paths break easily. How much does it >> bloat >> or burden a database to store jpgs, pngs, wavs or aifs files in records? >> >> 3) I see there are a few 3rd-party tools for database work with Livecode. >> (SQLyoga, SQLiteAdmin and SQLMagic). Are there others? Are these current >> with LC7? >> >> 4) Are there contract developers in the LC community that specialize in >> setting up databases with LC interfaces? >> >> Thanks! >> Tom B. >> >> >> >> -- >> View this message in context: >> http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Choosing-a-database-and-LC-tools-tp4694777.html >> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From pystcat at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 23:44:19 2015 From: pystcat at gmail.com (PystCat) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 23:44:19 -0400 Subject: Choosing a database and LC tools In-Reply-To: References: <1439224613854-4694777.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <408F96A9-38FE-4796-B18D-8AD65C4E2629@gmail.com> Hi Bill, If you wouldn't mind... I would love to see some of those PHP scripts... I've always used MySQL locally but I was thinking of branching out to use it on the web. I have a Founders account but never really use the MySQL from there... I never did like the (lack of) security. Thanks Paul > On Aug 10, 2015, at 9:15 PM, William Prothero wrote: > > Tom: > I use Navicat to manage my databases. It will access a variety of online databases, and works with SQLite too. I use it all the time. > In my app work, I use livecode with POST commands to php that talks to an online mySQL database. PHP is totally robust and won?t fail on you, and it?s built into most Apache installations. On Mac, there is also a great free tool called MAMP, which allows you to run a complete web server with php on your local machine, for debugging. Again, Navicat is your friend and will save you hours of wondering whether your data actually got into the db or not. > > I read that storage of images in a mySQL database isn?t recommended. But, I have stored them in SQLite db?s and it worked fine. Haven?t tried it on mySQL. > > I will send you some php scripts, if you are interested. Contact me offline. > Best, > Bill > >> On Aug 10, 2015, at 11:01 AM, Peter Haworth wrote: >> >> Hi Tom, >> SQLite should do what you need but a few notes for you. >> >> SQLite doesn't have an array datatype. The usual way of handling this type >> of data in any SQL database is to store each key and value of the array in >> a separate table that is linked to your main table by an id of some sort >> that would have the same value in both tables. >> >> You could also get round it by arrayEncoding them before putting them in >> the database and then arrayDecoding them on the way out. >> >> It's pretty easy to store images in columns with a data type of BLOB, >> although it requires some slightly different LC coding to SELECT them. >> Also be aware that LC used to encode BLOB data in a proprietary way but >> then removed the encoding in a release which I can't quite remember. Only >> an issue if you expect to access the database with versions of LC both >> before and after the change. Plus it's controllable via an sqliteoption >> parameter for revOpenDatabase. >> >> I will contact you off list re contract work and a couple of other >> suggestions. >> >> Pete >> >> >> On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 9:40 AM tbodine >> wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> I want to add a content library module to a LiveCode-built project. It will >>> enable users to store, tag, sort and retrieve their content. I've read >>> various threads and articles about databases, but I have minimal database >>> experience and I want to get it right the first time. So I'd appreciate >>> answers to these questions and any other insights: >>> >>> 1) Is SQLite the best choice for local database file with a Livecode >>> interface? (Each database record will need to hold a few sentences of >>> Unicode text, 1 or 2 small arrays, the text contents of a few cprops, and a >>> field for tags the user can apply to categorize the various records.) I >>> doubt the number of records would ever exceed 10,000 with an average more >>> like 2,000. >>> >>> 2) The content of some records may have associated images or audio files. I >>> can store the paths to those, but paths break easily. How much does it >>> bloat >>> or burden a database to store jpgs, pngs, wavs or aifs files in records? >>> >>> 3) I see there are a few 3rd-party tools for database work with Livecode. >>> (SQLyoga, SQLiteAdmin and SQLMagic). Are there others? Are these current >>> with LC7? >>> >>> 4) Are there contract developers in the LC community that specialize in >>> setting up databases with LC interfaces? >>> >>> Thanks! >>> Tom B. >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> View this message in context: >>> http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Choosing-a-database-and-LC-tools-tp4694777.html >>> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Tue Aug 11 04:11:20 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 11:11:20 +0300 Subject: Jane Austen's peculiarity In-Reply-To: <93F372D4-0A37-4C91-A9D0-21B5C8C596F3@livecode.org> References: <93F372D4-0A37-4C91-A9D0-21B5C8C596F3@livecode.org> Message-ID: <55C9AE28.8080204@gmail.com> On 10/08/15 23:51, hh wrote: > Richmond, this was your last post to this thread before mine. > >> My current version is here: >> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ja47l87gg87sn0q/AAAIj99kEQVOb8ev3jz8C5ORa?dl=0 >> >> File : TA.zip >> play with it, rip it to pieces, improve it: go on, I dare you :) >> >> Richmond. > So I downloaded this stack and wrote a script that implemented three ideas, > two by other LCoders, one by me. Because you graciously ignored these ideas, > I was simply curious about their effects on speed and selectivity (by using > trueWords). I didn't play with your stack, I didn't rip it into pieces, but > somehow improved it a bit in the sense of using effectively some available > features of LC 7. > > It was no dare, I had fun. And you had obviously fun too, what a great > speech! Who dares wins, you --- and me. I am most gratified to find that someone actually read and enjoyed one of my rants. > > Hermann > > p.s. Shouldn't the opening of your speech read "I was _achieved_"? ;-) Well it SHOULD (perhaps) read "I have achieved", but at the point I wrote that I had not put the colourisation scripts into the relevant buttons, so the action had not been completed :) It could not read "I was achieved" in the way Jane Austen was using that sort of structure because 'achieve' is a TRANSITIVE verb. > > Richmond wrote: > >> I am achieving what I initially set out to achieve, and with far less >> code than yours, so have no intention >> of changing anything. >> >> I, also, am a lucky sort of chap insofar as I don't really mind that >> much if my stack takes 3 days to work its way >> through a corpus . . . I can go and do some teaching, read a book, cook >> some food, go for a bike ride, talk to my wife, >> play with my cats, and so on. >> >> That has ALWAYS been my approach to programming for one simple reason: >> working every holiday for very many years indeed on a farm >> on an island I had to sort out broken bailers, tractors and so on. >> >> Now "proper" spares had to come, on a ferry, at a vast transportation >> overhead, from the mainland of Scotland. We could not afford >> that, so we fossicked (lovely verb) for whatever would do the job in the >> 'graveyard' of broken tractors, cars, stuff we had picked up from the >> local dump, and so on. Every single time we got our accursed bailer to >> bail the straw and the hay, we got the cotter pins we needed to >> connect the tractor to the plough, harrow, muck-spreader or whatever; >> never very elegant, but they worked. In fact my younger son was on that >> farm just 8 days ago and was shown some of my repair work by the >> farmer's son (the farmer is long dead); still functional after 25 years. >> >> I have, just, worked out a way to colourise the items I want, and while, >> churning through some socking great corpus that would take days, I only >> need it to colourise the sentences the previous routine has extracted, >> so that won't take that long. >> >> You, if it really seems such a good idea (and is it?) are more than >> welcome to download my stack >> >> >> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ja47l87gg87sn0q/AAAIj99kEQVOb8ev3jz8C5ORa?dl=0 >> File: >> TA.zip >> >> and mess around with the script to your heart's content. >> >> AND, while we are talking about time-consuming exercises: having put 4 >> hours of work into the thing, that seems, already, a bit more than the >> thing deserves as I am not interested in winning the Tour de France, >> simply extracting some data from a million word corpus with absolutely >> no deadline at all unless I choose to impose one. The results MAY get >> rolled into a paper my wife and I are THINKING of writing for an >> academic conference . . . . >> >> Almost ALL the stacks I have thrown out into the public domain in the >> last 6 months have come back to me with comments about how my code is >> clunky, inefficient, and so forth; and I would not doubt for a minute >> that that is probably true. >> >> HOWEVER, as far as I am concerned there is one enormous advantage about >> my code above thine, or anybody else's; while thy code and the code of >> many others is probably more efficient, more clever and gets things done >> more quickly, I don't understand the finer points of it, while I >> understand how my code works 100% because it was written by me, follows >> my logic, and does what I require it to do. >> >> It is always entertaining and instructive to see how people react to my >> code, and I often learn a lot from their reactions (not least about >> human psychology), including new coding tricks - but there always come a >> point where the burden of having to plough through other >> people's code (reflecting the way their minds work) feels like too much >> in comparison from anything I might learn from it. >> >> ----------------------------------- >> >> I also suspect that very many people share my interest in getting "the >> job done" rather than producing posh code. >> >> RunRev claim, on their website, that one can learn to code quickly. With >> Livecode one can learn how to code RELATIVELY quickly, up >> to a certain point; and many people who are not programmers qua >> programmers should be attracted by that because they have probably >> got other things to do other than JUST program. >> >> I am, at least to a certain extent, one of those people, as computer >> programming is not the hinge on which my life rotates (and this became >> extremely clear just recently when I spent 3 weeks driving round Europe >> without access to any programming facilities at all), and that is >> why I may come across as a bit "rude and crude" to other programmers: >> mainly because I have evry little patience with reducing 25 lines >> of code to 10 if it will take 12 hours to do that. >> >> The cow has a breach-presentation calf inside it which will kill her and >> the calf within half an hour, to hell with calling the vet, >> I'm going to get my right arm up inside her and manipulate the calf so >> that it is facing head forwards: >> whether I do that the way posh younger sons of the aristocracy learn how >> to with their rubber gloves off at agricultural school >> or not I just don't care: I am trying to save 2 lives, however I do it. >> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> I apologise if that comes across as a rant (well . . . it IS a rant), >> but it is something that I feel quite strongly about, and fell needs to >> be said >> as a necessary corrective, from time to time. >> >> ----------------------------------- >> >> One of the things I DO LOVE about LiveCode is that there is room for >> "Farmer Richmond" as well as all the "Real Coders", and I do >> think that that is something that Runtime Revolution would do well to >> tak more tent of in their advertising. >> >> Richmond. >> >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Tue Aug 11 04:15:04 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 11:15:04 +0300 Subject: Codeweek? Message-ID: <55C9AF08.3050601@gmail.com> I wonder why there is no LiveCode here: http://codeweek.eu/resources/ This IS just the sort of place where RunRev should be peddling LiveCode. Richmond. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Tue Aug 11 04:59:17 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 11:59:17 +0300 Subject: MetaCard ftp site Message-ID: <55C9B965.3050508@gmail.com> Is this FTP site defunct? ftp://ftp.metacard.com/MetaCard and if it is not is there some reason it is password protected? Richmond. From gbojsza at gmail.com Tue Aug 11 08:42:33 2015 From: gbojsza at gmail.com (Glen Bojsza) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 08:42:33 -0400 Subject: Can LC chat server run on the following platform? Message-ID: Hello, There is a Kickstarter project that is an interesting server in itself but I wanted to know if I could run a LC chatserver on it as well? It is called spreedbox ( https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/spreed/spreedbox-the-most-private-video-chat-and-file-exc/comments ) But according to the specs it is sunning a version of Ubuntu on a ARM processor so since it isn't Android or iOS I am not sure that LC can run on it. If LC can run on it is there a special build I need to get? Any information on how I can use this server with LC would be greatly appreciated. regards, Glen From toolbook at kestner.de Tue Aug 11 08:46:43 2015 From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 14:46:43 +0200 Subject: enable/disable menu doesn't find the object Message-ID: <00e301d0d433$c7202e60$55608b20$@kestner.de> Hello, I have two alternative menubars in my program. Most times when I am trying to enable or disable menus with: disable menu "Foo" I get the error "no such object" When using explicit: disable btn "Foo" of grp "Menubar1" of stack "myStack" the menu gets disabled. Any ideas, what could cause that the menu isn't found with syntax 1? Thanks Tiemo From david at viral.academy Tue Aug 11 09:14:44 2015 From: david at viral.academy (David Bovill) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 14:14:44 +0100 Subject: Can LC chat server run on the following platform? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It's basically a Raspberry Pi 2 running 32 bit Ubuntu - so I'd guess yes - will no more soon as I'm heading down that route and will be testing a server on a similar configuration. On 11 August 2015 at 13:42, Glen Bojsza wrote: > Hello, > > There is a Kickstarter project that is an interesting server in itself but > I wanted to know if I could run a LC chatserver on it as well? > > It is called spreedbox > > ( > > https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/spreed/spreedbox-the-most-private-video-chat-and-file-exc/comments > ) > > But according to the specs it is sunning a version of Ubuntu on a ARM > processor so since it isn't Android or iOS I am not sure that LC can run on > it. > > If LC can run on it is there a special build I need to get? > > Any information on how I can use this server with LC would be greatly > appreciated. > > regards, > > Glen > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From james at thehales.id.au Tue Aug 11 10:31:42 2015 From: james at thehales.id.au (James Hale) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 00:31:42 +1000 Subject: Jane Austen's peculiarity Message-ID: <3D836B60-2D64-45CC-B27C-E913DBBB59DD@thehales.id.au> Of course I couldn't resist a tinker. I too am into text manipulation/searching and wondered how I would go about this. I looked at the repeat loops and realised they would run much faster if they were inverted as I am sure the list of verbs would be less than the lines of text being searched. I also wanted to use a "repeat for each" construct as this is usually orders of magnitude faster. But this meant I needed the line count and adding a counter seemed counter productive. So I settled on using the lineoffset. Here was my go... on mouseUp put empty into fld "COOKED" put empty into fld "STARTT" put empty into fld "STOPT" put empty into lCooked1 put "started : " & the long time into fld "STARTT" put the milliseconds into st put fld "TEKST" into TEKST put fld "WERBS" into WERBS put 0 into acounter put the number of lines of TEKST into numlines repeat for each line KWERBS in WERBS put "was " & KWERBS into FRAZE put "were " & KWERBS into FRAZE2 put 0 into loffesta put 0 into loffestb put 1 into lcounta put 1 into lcountb repeat while lcounta <> 0 put lineoffset(FRAZE,TEKST,loffesta) into lcounta if lcounta = 0 then exit repeat end if put lcounta + loffesta into thelinea put thelinea & " : " & line thelinea of TEKST & cr after lCooked1 put lcounta into loffesta end repeat repeat while lcountb <> 0 put lineoffset(FRAZE2,TEKST,loffestb) into lcountb if lcountb = 0 then exit repeat end if put lcountb + loffestb into thelineb put thelineb & " : " & line thelineb of TEKST & cr after lCooked1 put lcountb into loffestb end repeat end repeat put the number of lines of lCooked1 & " found" put lcooked1 into fld "Cooked" put "finished : " & the long time into fld "STOPT" put the milliseconds into nd put nd - st into fld "TIMET" end mouseUp I haven't tried returning to the original repeat order to see if this was faster but running the above on Richmond's sample stack for the "WAS/WERE" case delivered a result of three lines.. 2663 : officers, who in comparison with the stranger, were become "stupid, 731 : was returned in due form. Miss Bennet's pleasing manners grew on the 4116 : were returned, and to lament over his absence from the Netherfield ball. in 89 msec on my Mac running LC7.1Dp1 I was then going to examine colourising the found chunks when I realised that the supplied text had line breaks within each paragraph. This means none of the proposed solutions (including Richmond's own) will find the desired phrase if it falls across one of these line breaks. For my solution using lineoffset this is a dead end WHILE these line breaks within a paragraph remain. For the other solutions a simple expedient is to increase the number of FRAZEs to four... put "was " & KWERBS into FRAZE put "was" & cr & KWERBS into FRAZE2 put "were " & KWERBS into FRAZE3 put "were" & cr & KWERBS into FRAZE4 This addition makes the extra FRAZES two "lines" and thus non valid arguments for a lineoffset function. or so I thought. However given the unpredictability of the formatting of the text this was a much too simplistic solution. This solution breaks down where paragraphs are indented using spaces! So, to keep the formatting as read in is problematic without knowing the formatting used. But if the focus is the actual text, then perhaps the "fancy" formatting is not important. Processing the text BEFORE searching so as to remove embedded line breaks and space padding allows my original code to work fine. inserting the following before the REPEATS does the trick (at least with the example text replace return with "^&*" in TEKST put "\s+" into lmultispace put replacetext (TEKST,lmultispace," ") into TEKST replace "^&*^&*" with return in TEKST replace "^&*" with " " in TEKST replace return with return & return in TEKST The only downside being the time to execute went from 89 msec to 616 msec. you mileage may vary. NOTE: My method does not identify multiple instances of the FRAZE within a single line, however once it is found in a line it would be simple to see if it occurred again. Thanks for the diversion Richmond. James From paul at researchware.com Tue Aug 11 11:40:01 2015 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 11:40:01 -0400 Subject: OSX About and Help menu issue under LC676 Message-ID: <55CA1751.8010107@researchware.com> I have an application that when built into a standalone under LC665, under OSX the About and Help menu work fine. The same application built under LC676 for OSX results in the all menu item under the Help menu (except for Apple's default search) greyed out and About under the Application menu does not work. I can find nothing in the LC676 release notes about any change to how the About and help menus are handled. I am working in LC (665 or 676) under Windows and build standalone for Windows and OSX, which, again, has been working fine under LC665 (and earlier), but not the About and Help don't work under LC676. Was this some Cocoa related change in the LC6.7.x series? Can some one verify this issue? Any one know why this might be happening. From jbv at souslelogo.com Tue Aug 11 11:44:35 2015 From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 18:44:35 +0300 Subject: Table field colored rows question Message-ID: Hi list Is there a quick way, like a property, to have successive rows of a table field in alternate colors, like white, grey, white, grey, etc ? I checked the graphic effects, but didn't find anything of the sort... I'm using LC community 6.5.2 on OSX. Thanks in advance. jbv From paul at livecode.org Tue Aug 11 11:55:04 2015 From: paul at livecode.org (Paul Hibbert) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 08:55:04 -0700 Subject: Table field colored rows question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7017D2EE-9848-4385-BC7C-72632563B08F@livecode.org> I guess you missed Scott Rossi?s announcement a few days ago? Paul >> I recently posted a little demo of a technique to customize a field with >> alternating colored lines, making a row-based table with no additional >> objects. You can download the stack from the forums: >> http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=25002 >> >> >> Should work in LC5.5 and later. >> >> Regards, >> >> Scott Rossi >> Creative Director >> Tactile Media, UX/UI Design >> > On Aug 11, 2015, at 08:44, jbv at souslelogo.com wrote: > > Hi list > > Is there a quick way, like a property, to have successive rows of a > table field in alternate colors, like white, grey, white, grey, etc ? > I checked the graphic effects, but didn't find anything of the sort... > I'm using LC community 6.5.2 on OSX. > > Thanks in advance. > jbv > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at researchware.com Tue Aug 11 11:59:41 2015 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 11:59:41 -0400 Subject: Table field colored rows question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55CA1BED.5090104@researchware.com> On 8/11/2015 11:44 AM, jbv at souslelogo.com wrote: > Hi list > > Is there a quick way, like a property, to have successive rows of a > table field in alternate colors, like white, grey, white, grey, etc ? > I checked the graphic effects, but didn't find anything of the sort... > I'm using LC community 6.5.2 on OSX. > > Thanks in advance. > jbv > The Datagrid object supports alternating row colors, but the they are not part of the "table" features of the standard LiveCode field object. If you want alternating row colors with a standard LC field, you would need to either code them yourself or several LC community members have created improved "tables" based on the LC field object. I think I recall that at least one of them included alternating row colors, but I can't remember who. From panos.merakos at livecode.com Tue Aug 11 12:17:46 2015 From: panos.merakos at livecode.com (panagiotis merakos) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 17:17:46 +0100 Subject: Release 6.7.7 RC 2 Message-ID: Dear List Members, We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 6.7.7 RC 2. This release is a maintenance release which contains regression fixes. The list of regressions fixed can be found in the Release Notes. *Getting the Release* To get the release please select "Check For Updates" from the "Help" menu in the product or download the installer directly at: http://downloads.livecode.com *6.7.7 Stable* The next release should occur in the beginning of the next week. It is planned to be the Stable release of LiveCode 6.7.7, unless regressions are noticed and need to be fixed. Warm regards, The LiveCode Team From bernd.niggemann at uni-wh.de Tue Aug 11 12:19:40 2015 From: bernd.niggemann at uni-wh.de (BNig) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 09:19:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Table field colored rows question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1439309980158-4694811.post@n4.nabble.com> Hi, some code to make alternating row colors for fields in LC http://livecodeshare.runrev.com/stack/661/ListStripes_0_0_5 at least one of the attempts to improve on tableField is here. -------------------------- http://berndniggemann.on-rev.com/modTableField/modTableField_0_3_2.zip -------------------------- Kind regrards Bernd -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Table-field-colored-rows-question-tp4694807p4694811.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Tue Aug 11 12:28:51 2015 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 12:28:51 -0400 Subject: Android Status Bar? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Only possible on rooted devices, or in certain customized ROMs from XDA. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94RrpzL_w6E ~Roger On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 6:04 PM, Scott Rossi wrote: > Is it possible to customize the appearance of the status bar, i.e. making > it transparent, so we can make the overall stack appearance look more like > the current Android OS? > > Thanks & Regards, > > Scott Rossi > Creative Director > Tactile Media, UX/UI Design > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Tue Aug 11 12:29:16 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 19:29:16 +0300 Subject: Jane Austen's peculiarity In-Reply-To: <3D836B60-2D64-45CC-B27C-E913DBBB59DD@thehales.id.au> References: <3D836B60-2D64-45CC-B27C-E913DBBB59DD@thehales.id.au> Message-ID: <55CA22DC.1040105@gmail.com> On 11/08/15 17:31, James Hale wrote: > This means none of the proposed solutions (including Richmond's own) will find the desired phrase if it falls across one of these line breaks. > Wow! Very valuable point: thanks. Richmond. From pmbrig at gmail.com Tue Aug 11 13:05:47 2015 From: pmbrig at gmail.com (Peter M. Brigham) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 13:05:47 -0400 Subject: Colouring words In-Reply-To: <55C8CE09.7070006@gmail.com> References: <14f17e1d0bc-1189-4379f@webprd-a24.mail.aol.com> <55C8BF9E.2090909@gmail.com> <55C8CE09.7070006@gmail.com> Message-ID: <527F267F-301C-446B-870D-64C75FBBFAEC@gmail.com> On Aug 10, 2015, at 12:15 PM, Richmond wrote: > On 10/08/15 19:03, Mike Bonner wrote: >> oh. Assuming you're on a version of lc that supports truewords >> >> > > Mine all seem to support falsewords . . . > > Err, sorry, the mask slipped there a minute :/ > > I see that version 7.0.5 supports truewords, and that's good enough for me. > > Thanks for that one. Here's a quick and dirty command that does what you want. Requires the utility function wordoffsets(), which I posted a few days ago on another thread, also available in the Master Library. Call it by specifying the word, the color, and the field ref: colorizeWord "was", "red", the long id of fld "text" on colorizeWord pWord, pColor, fLongID put the text of fLongID into fText put wordoffsets(pWord,fText,true) into offList lock screen -- speeds up the routine considerably, as the screen refresh -- only is done once repeat for each item i in offList set the textColor of word i of fLongID to pColor end repeat end colorizeWord You could modify this for LC 7+ to use trueword -- expand wordoffsets() to create a new function truewordoffsets(). Yet another example of how the offsets()/wordoffsets()/lineoffsets() functions make life so much easier?. (All these are in the Master Library.) Richmond: you may want to rename the function to "colourizewords". :-) -- Peter Peter M. Brigham pmbrig at gmail.com http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Tue Aug 11 13:48:38 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 20:48:38 +0300 Subject: Describing LiveCode Message-ID: <55CA3576.5060400@gmail.com> I am having a problem with a load of belligerent parents who seem quite unable to understand what LiveCode is. These parents work at the local Non-Ferrous Metals factory and are highly skilled engineers, but learnt their programming when I did (i.e. when the dinosaurs were alive), and need to be slapped with a description of the sort they can understand. The truth of the matter is that almost all of them are probably about a gazillion times better at FORTAN and Pascal than I ever was . . . Saying things like "Hypercard on steroids" brings only blank looks as these poor people, while I was enjoying getting bogged down in HC in Carbondale, Illinois, were fighting for survival during the mid-90s economic disaster that affected post-Communist countries. Now I came across this: http://www.metacard.com/wp1a.html "Third generation includes most compiled languages, including older ones such as Pascal, Fortran, C, BASIC (Beginners All-purpose Symbolic Instruction Code), and COBOL (COmmon Business Oriented Language), but also includes newer derivatives like C++ and Java "Fourth generation languages are the proprietary languages used to develop database applications "Scripting languages, like MetaTalk, Perl, ksh, Tcl, and Python, are most similar to 4GLs, but generally are even higher level and were designed to be general purpose tools rather than specifically for dealing with databases " which is the sort of 'guff' they will understand [Hey, as far as I am concerned, who gives a "monkey's" - does the job, normally marvellously] but only goes half way. So . . . ? Am I to describe LiveCode as: 1. A fifth generation language? and if so, how will I explain the difference between that and 3rd and 4th G languages? Directly scriptable objects? No compiling nonsense? 2. Plastic bath toys? This will turn these people (with their kids!!!!) off instanter. 3. Something else? Being a retro sort of chap I just bought (!!!!!) /How to program C++/, second edition, 1998 for the princely sum of 1 Euro . . . well, as far as I'm concerned it IS worth having! Now, on page 10 it has this to say: "C++ . . . provides a number of features that "spruce up" the C language, but more importantly, it provides capabilities for /object-oriented programming/." Which, from the point of view of a long-term LiveCode monomaniac (me) looks fine until you start looking for buttons, fields and so forth . . . Anyway, the C++ is going to be my "bathroom book of the month" and we'll see how far it gets me . . . HOWEVER, I am still left with these stroppy parents who cannot quite understand what the advantages of LiveCode over Pascal, FORTRAN and C++ might possibly be for their pre-adolescent children, because, while those kids might learn to program Mickey Mouse guff with LC they will still have to learn a "Real Programming" language when they are older [ this is when I have to sit on my hands and count to ten]. Richmond. From hlowe at me.com Tue Aug 11 14:04:14 2015 From: hlowe at me.com (hlowe) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 11:04:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Release 6.7.7 RC 2 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1439316254353-4694816.post@n4.nabble.com> Updated to xCode 6.4 and installed LC 6.7.7 RC2 (Mac OS 10.10.4). App runs fine in the iPad 8.4 simulator but when I compile and install onto an iPad running iOS 8.4, I run into the following: If I select 8.4 or later as the build for iOS version, when I try to install the app onto the iPad xCode reports: "The Info.plist for application at specifies a minimum OS version of 8.4.0, which is too high to be installed on ." If I select iOS 8.3 or later the app installs on the iPad but fails to run with the error (app uses encryption): "SSL library not found" I also note that no matter what version of iOS I select in the Standalone Application Settings, when I quit and relaunch LC, the iOS version has reset to "5.1.1 or later" App runs fine under LC 6.7.6, xCode 6.3 and iOS 8.3. Have submitted bug report. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Release-6-7-7-RC-2-tp4694810p4694816.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From sundown at pacifier.com Tue Aug 11 14:18:50 2015 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 11:18:50 -0700 Subject: Describing LiveCode In-Reply-To: <55CA3576.5060400@gmail.com> References: <55CA3576.5060400@gmail.com> Message-ID: <35642C06-DCF3-4B44-9157-528E0F896D12@pacifier.com> Hi Richmond, You covered a lot of information in your post. I know this message does not answer your question but when they mention C++ and object-oriented programming they are not talking about objects like fields & buttons. If you are interested in object-oriented programming you might want to skip the C++ and go straight to objective-C. John Balgenorth On Aug 11, 2015, at 10:48 AM, Richmond wrote: > I am having a problem with a load of belligerent parents who seem quite unable to understand > what LiveCode is. These parents work at the local Non-Ferrous Metals factory and are highly skilled > engineers, but learnt their programming when I did (i.e. when the dinosaurs were alive), and > need to be slapped with a description of the sort they can understand. > > The truth of the matter is that almost all of them are probably about a gazillion times better at FORTAN and Pascal than I ever was . . . > > Saying things like "Hypercard on steroids" brings only blank looks as these poor people, while > I was enjoying getting bogged down in HC in Carbondale, Illinois, were fighting for survival during the mid-90s economic > disaster that affected post-Communist countries. > > Now I came across this: http://www.metacard.com/wp1a.html > > "Third generation includes most compiled languages, including older ones such as Pascal, Fortran, C, BASIC (Beginners All-purpose Symbolic Instruction Code), and COBOL (COmmon Business Oriented Language), but also includes newer derivatives like C++ and Java > > "Fourth generation languages are the proprietary languages used to develop database applications > > "Scripting languages, like MetaTalk, Perl, ksh, Tcl, and Python, are most similar to 4GLs, > but generally are even higher level and were designed to be general purpose tools rather than specifically for dealing with databases " > > which is the sort of 'guff' they will understand [Hey, as far as I am concerned, who gives a "monkey's" - > does the job, normally marvellously] but only goes half way. > > So . . . ? > > Am I to describe LiveCode as: > > 1. A fifth generation language? and if so, how will I explain the difference between that and 3rd and 4th G languages? > > Directly scriptable objects? > > No compiling nonsense? > > 2. Plastic bath toys? This will turn these people (with their kids!!!!) off instanter. > > 3. Something else? > > Being a retro sort of chap I just bought (!!!!!) /How to program C++/, second edition, 1998 for the princely sum of 1 Euro . . . well, as far > as I'm concerned it IS worth having! > > Now, on page 10 it has this to say: > > "C++ . . . provides a number of features that "spruce up" the C language, but more importantly, it provides capabilities for > /object-oriented programming/." > > Which, from the point of view of a long-term LiveCode monomaniac (me) looks fine until you start looking for buttons, fields > and so forth . . . > > Anyway, the C++ is going to be my "bathroom book of the month" and we'll see how far it gets me . . . > > HOWEVER, I am still left with these stroppy parents who cannot quite understand what the advantages of LiveCode over Pascal, > FORTRAN and C++ might possibly be for their pre-adolescent children, because, while those kids might learn to program > Mickey Mouse guff with LC they will still have to learn a "Real Programming" language when they are older [ this is when I have to > sit on my hands and count to ten]. > > Richmond. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From bodine at bodinetraininggames.com Tue Aug 11 14:22:22 2015 From: bodine at bodinetraininggames.com (tbodine) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 11:22:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Choosing a database and LC tools In-Reply-To: <1439224613854-4694777.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1439224613854-4694777.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <1439317342066-4694818.post@n4.nabble.com> Thanks guys for the information on this! Very helpful. Tom Bodine -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Choosing-a-database-and-LC-tools-tp4694777p4694818.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From bodine at bodinetraininggames.com Tue Aug 11 14:24:58 2015 From: bodine at bodinetraininggames.com (tbodine) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 11:24:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Choosing a database and LC tools In-Reply-To: References: <1439224613854-4694777.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <55CA3EA3.10504@bodinetraininggames.com> Hi Bill. Thanks for those insights. I'm not sure which route I'll take yet, but I would welcome access to your php script collection. Thanks, Tom Bodine On 8/10/2015 8:12 PM, Wprothero [via Runtime Revolution] wrote: > Tom: > I use Navicat to manage my databases. It will access a variety of online > databases, and works with SQLite too. I use it all the time. > In my app work, I use livecode with POST commands to php that talks to > an online mySQL database. PHP is totally robust and won?t fail on you, > and it?s built into most Apache installations. On Mac, there is also a > great free tool called MAMP, which allows you to run a complete web > server with php on your local machine, for debugging. Again, Navicat is > your friend and will save you hours of wondering whether your data > actually got into the db or not. > > I read that storage of images in a mySQL database isn?t recommended. > But, I have stored them in SQLite db?s and it worked fine. Haven?t tried > it on mySQL. > > I will send you some php scripts, if you are interested. Contact me > offline. > Best, > Bill ============================================= *Bodine Training Games LLC* 8417 Hallet St., Lenexa, KS 66215 USA www.bodinetraininggames.com / 913-492-7709 -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Choosing-a-database-and-LC-tools-tp4694777p4694819.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From jbv at souslelogo.com Tue Aug 11 14:30:43 2015 From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 21:30:43 +0300 Subject: Describing LiveCode In-Reply-To: <55CA3576.5060400@gmail.com> References: <55CA3576.5060400@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Richmond You might be facing the same problem that I (as well as probably most of this list members) have been facing for years (if not decades) with students, teachers, colleagues and clients : a programming language HAS TO BE TOUGH to learn and use, otherwise it's considered as nothing but a toy... Old school programmers (mostly those trained with Fortran, Cobol and assembler) like to think of themselves as part of the happy few who understand what's inside the machine and are able to tweek it. >From their point of view, the world will turn into chaos if anyone starts to master programing, just like it would turn to chaos if anyone would start practicing medicine... jbv From pmbrig at gmail.com Tue Aug 11 14:46:59 2015 From: pmbrig at gmail.com (Peter M. Brigham) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 14:46:59 -0400 Subject: Describing LiveCode In-Reply-To: <55CA3576.5060400@gmail.com> References: <55CA3576.5060400@gmail.com> Message-ID: <0B63C8B9-2868-46C7-A620-3528E44A6084@gmail.com> May be conducting a parents' night in which you demonstrate something simple with livecode to show its ease of access and manageable learning curve, then rope the kids in to show off what they have done, and finally summarize the advanced projects that people have used it for. In my experience, mentioning that LC powers the Landsat 7 satellite data collection enterprise usually gets people to sit up and open their eyes. Lots of similar applications mentioned on the LC website. -- Peter Peter M. Brigham pmbrig at gmail.com http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig On Aug 11, 2015, at 1:48 PM, Richmond wrote: > I am having a problem with a load of belligerent parents who seem quite unable to understand > what LiveCode is. These parents work at the local Non-Ferrous Metals factory and are highly skilled > engineers, but learnt their programming when I did (i.e. when the dinosaurs were alive), and > need to be slapped with a description of the sort they can understand. > > The truth of the matter is that almost all of them are probably about a gazillion times better at FORTAN and Pascal than I ever was . . . > > Saying things like "Hypercard on steroids" brings only blank looks as these poor people, while > I was enjoying getting bogged down in HC in Carbondale, Illinois, were fighting for survival during the mid-90s economic > disaster that affected post-Communist countries. > > Now I came across this: http://www.metacard.com/wp1a.html > > "Third generation includes most compiled languages, including older ones such as Pascal, Fortran, C, BASIC (Beginners All-purpose Symbolic Instruction Code), and COBOL (COmmon Business Oriented Language), but also includes newer derivatives like C++ and Java > > "Fourth generation languages are the proprietary languages used to develop database applications > > "Scripting languages, like MetaTalk, Perl, ksh, Tcl, and Python, are most similar to 4GLs, > but generally are even higher level and were designed to be general purpose tools rather than specifically for dealing with databases " > > which is the sort of 'guff' they will understand [Hey, as far as I am concerned, who gives a "monkey's" - > does the job, normally marvellously] but only goes half way. > > So . . . ? > > Am I to describe LiveCode as: > > 1. A fifth generation language? and if so, how will I explain the difference between that and 3rd and 4th G languages? > > Directly scriptable objects? > > No compiling nonsense? > > 2. Plastic bath toys? This will turn these people (with their kids!!!!) off instanter. > > 3. Something else? > > Being a retro sort of chap I just bought (!!!!!) /How to program C++/, second edition, 1998 for the princely sum of 1 Euro . . . well, as far > as I'm concerned it IS worth having! > > Now, on page 10 it has this to say: > > "C++ . . . provides a number of features that "spruce up" the C language, but more importantly, it provides capabilities for > /object-oriented programming/." > > Which, from the point of view of a long-term LiveCode monomaniac (me) looks fine until you start looking for buttons, fields > and so forth . . . > > Anyway, the C++ is going to be my "bathroom book of the month" and we'll see how far it gets me . . . > > HOWEVER, I am still left with these stroppy parents who cannot quite understand what the advantages of LiveCode over Pascal, > FORTRAN and C++ might possibly be for their pre-adolescent children, because, while those kids might learn to program > Mickey Mouse guff with LC they will still have to learn a "Real Programming" language when they are older [ this is when I have to > sit on my hands and count to ten]. > > Richmond. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From prothero at earthednet.org Tue Aug 11 14:54:39 2015 From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 11:54:39 -0700 Subject: Choosing a database and LC tools In-Reply-To: <55CA3EA3.10504@bodinetraininggames.com> References: <1439224613854-4694777.post@n4.nabble.com> <55CA3EA3.10504@bodinetraininggames.com> Message-ID: Tom and Peter: Here is a link to a working stack, that includes the php scripts, so you can see what?s involved. https://www.dropbox.com/s/zeldbpafcnno3x5/Db Access.zip?dl=0 This link won?t last forever, so I?ll plan on keeping it active for a week. Good luck, Bill > On Aug 11, 2015, at 11:24 AM, tbodine wrote: > > Hi Bill. > > Thanks for those insights. I'm not sure which route I'll take yet, but I > would welcome access to your php script collection. > > Thanks, > Tom Bodine > > > On 8/10/2015 8:12 PM, Wprothero [via Runtime Revolution] wrote: >> Tom: >> I use Navicat to manage my databases. It will access a variety of online >> databases, and works with SQLite too. I use it all the time. >> In my app work, I use livecode with POST commands to php that talks to >> an online mySQL database. PHP is totally robust and won?t fail on you, >> and it?s built into most Apache installations. On Mac, there is also a >> great free tool called MAMP, which allows you to run a complete web >> server with php on your local machine, for debugging. Again, Navicat is >> your friend and will save you hours of wondering whether your data >> actually got into the db or not. >> >> I read that storage of images in a mySQL database isn?t recommended. >> But, I have stored them in SQLite db?s and it worked fine. Haven?t tried >> it on mySQL. >> >> I will send you some php scripts, if you are interested. Contact me >> offline. >> Best, >> Bill > ============================================= > > *Bodine Training Games LLC* > > 8417 Hallet St., Lenexa, KS 66215 USA > > www.bodinetraininggames.com / 913-492-7709 > > > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Choosing-a-database-and-LC-tools-tp4694777p4694819.html > Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From prothero at earthednet.org Tue Aug 11 15:01:37 2015 From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 12:01:37 -0700 Subject: Choosing a database and LC tools In-Reply-To: References: <1439224613854-4694777.post@n4.nabble.com> <55CA3EA3.10504@bodinetraininggames.com> Message-ID: Tom and Peter: Also, please note that: Best practice involves NOT sending a complete query, which I use in the demo. It?s not so bad, since I require a password as a sent parameter, and since it is intended that the query be generated by livecode in a protected script (not in an input field that anybody can access). It?s not a horrible security issue, but easily breakable by someone monitoring wifi or other network traffic or using a keylogger, etc. But, for critical information, you should modify the php code to use placeholders for the sql parameters and use ssh protocols to send the commands. I will implement this at some time soon, but don?t have it now. Glad to share when I get it done. Best, Bill > On Aug 11, 2015, at 11:54 AM, William Prothero wrote: > > Tom and Peter: > Here is a link to a working stack, that includes the php scripts, so you can see what?s involved. > https://www.dropbox.com/s/zeldbpafcnno3x5/Db Access.zip?dl=0 > This link won?t last forever, so I?ll plan on keeping it active for a week. > Good luck, > Bill > >> On Aug 11, 2015, at 11:24 AM, tbodine wrote: >> >> Hi Bill. >> >> Thanks for those insights. I'm not sure which route I'll take yet, but I >> would welcome access to your php script collection. >> >> Thanks, >> Tom Bodine >> >> >> On 8/10/2015 8:12 PM, Wprothero [via Runtime Revolution] wrote: >>> Tom: >>> I use Navicat to manage my databases. It will access a variety of online >>> databases, and works with SQLite too. I use it all the time. >>> In my app work, I use livecode with POST commands to php that talks to >>> an online mySQL database. PHP is totally robust and won?t fail on you, >>> and it?s built into most Apache installations. On Mac, there is also a >>> great free tool called MAMP, which allows you to run a complete web >>> server with php on your local machine, for debugging. Again, Navicat is >>> your friend and will save you hours of wondering whether your data >>> actually got into the db or not. >>> >>> I read that storage of images in a mySQL database isn?t recommended. >>> But, I have stored them in SQLite db?s and it worked fine. Haven?t tried >>> it on mySQL. >>> >>> I will send you some php scripts, if you are interested. Contact me >>> offline. >>> Best, >>> Bill >> ============================================= >> >> *Bodine Training Games LLC* >> >> 8417 Hallet St., Lenexa, KS 66215 USA >> >> www.bodinetraininggames.com / 913-492-7709 >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Choosing-a-database-and-LC-tools-tp4694777p4694819.html >> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From prothero at earthednet.org Tue Aug 11 15:12:41 2015 From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 12:12:41 -0700 Subject: Describing LiveCode In-Reply-To: <55CA3576.5060400@gmail.com> References: <55CA3576.5060400@gmail.com> Message-ID: <942A148E-8A03-4A37-BDD5-FAF75BF37839@earthednet.org> Richmond: I have had pretty much the same history as you, but started with punch cards on a mainframe less powerful than my thermostat. But, perhaps if you break it down like the kinds of knowledge that a programmer needs: 1. the flow and logic of a program (which applies to all platforms) 2. object oriented programming. 3. strategy and organization of code 4. a need to get kids interested with immediate rewards. 5. the evolving nature of authoring platforms Once you make these items clear, you might ask whether it is the language syntax that is important, or the organization of that syntax to create an outcome. The syntax is much more straightforward to learn than the organization. Will livecode help students learn to code in other languages? Of course it will. Only the syntax is different. Piece of cake! Good luck! Bill William A. Prothero, Ph.D. University of California, Santa Barbara Dept. of Earth Sciences (Emeritus) Santa Barbara, CA. 93105 http://es.earthednet.org/ my new project link > On Aug 11, 2015, at 10:48 AM, Richmond wrote: > > I am having a problem with a load of belligerent parents who seem quite unable to understand > what LiveCode is. These parents work at the local Non-Ferrous Metals factory and are highly skilled > engineers, but learnt their programming when I did (i.e. when the dinosaurs were alive), and > need to be slapped with a description of the sort they can understand. > > The truth of the matter is that almost all of them are probably about a gazillion times better at FORTAN and Pascal than I ever was . . . > > Saying things like "Hypercard on steroids" brings only blank looks as these poor people, while > I was enjoying getting bogged down in HC in Carbondale, Illinois, were fighting for survival during the mid-90s economic > disaster that affected post-Communist countries. > > Now I came across this: http://www.metacard.com/wp1a.html > > "Third generation includes most compiled languages, including older ones such as Pascal, Fortran, C, BASIC (Beginners All-purpose Symbolic Instruction Code), and COBOL (COmmon Business Oriented Language), but also includes newer derivatives like C++ and Java > > "Fourth generation languages are the proprietary languages used to develop database applications > > "Scripting languages, like MetaTalk, Perl, ksh, Tcl, and Python, are most similar to 4GLs, > but generally are even higher level and were designed to be general purpose tools rather than specifically for dealing with databases " > > which is the sort of 'guff' they will understand [Hey, as far as I am concerned, who gives a "monkey's" - > does the job, normally marvellously] but only goes half way. > > So . . . ? > > Am I to describe LiveCode as: > > 1. A fifth generation language? and if so, how will I explain the difference between that and 3rd and 4th G languages? > > Directly scriptable objects? > > No compiling nonsense? > > 2. Plastic bath toys? This will turn these people (with their kids!!!!) off instanter. > > 3. Something else? > > Being a retro sort of chap I just bought (!!!!!) /How to program C++/, second edition, 1998 for the princely sum of 1 Euro . . . well, as far > as I'm concerned it IS worth having! > > Now, on page 10 it has this to say: > > "C++ . . . provides a number of features that "spruce up" the C language, but more importantly, it provides capabilities for > /object-oriented programming/." > > Which, from the point of view of a long-term LiveCode monomaniac (me) looks fine until you start looking for buttons, fields > and so forth . . . > > Anyway, the C++ is going to be my "bathroom book of the month" and we'll see how far it gets me . . . > > HOWEVER, I am still left with these stroppy parents who cannot quite understand what the advantages of LiveCode over Pascal, > FORTRAN and C++ might possibly be for their pre-adolescent children, because, while those kids might learn to program > Mickey Mouse guff with LC they will still have to learn a "Real Programming" language when they are older [ this is when I have to > sit on my hands and count to ten]. > > Richmond. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Tue Aug 11 15:20:30 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 22:20:30 +0300 Subject: Describing LiveCode In-Reply-To: <35642C06-DCF3-4B44-9157-528E0F896D12@pacifier.com> References: <55CA3576.5060400@gmail.com> <35642C06-DCF3-4B44-9157-528E0F896D12@pacifier.com> Message-ID: <55CA4AFE.2040607@gmail.com> On 11/08/15 21:18, JB wrote: > Hi Richmond, > > You covered a lot of information in your post. > > I know this message does not answer your > question but when they mention C++ and > object-oriented programming they are not > talking about objects like fields & buttons. I am aware that object-oriented programming does not talk about CONTROLS, but I am trying to express the conceptual problems that the parents I described might have when trying to take a jump from FORTRAN to LiveCode, possibly via object-oriented programming. Unfortunately, in Bulgaria, everybody thinks that C++ is the bee's knees; mainly because this is what they teach in the Mathematical specialist High Schools (they "teach" Pascal in the other High Schools - which is a farce as the teachers don't know Pascal and the teenagers are sufficiently switched on to realise that it is old hat). Now, I am not going to deny that C++ is a powerful programming language; but what I do know (even if, for the sake of argument, LiveCode is less powerful and less capable than C++), is that LiveCode beats the kilt off C++ in terms of getting young kids programming and understanding the underlying concepts of programming. However, the parents I have to explain things to, who are computer programmers, learnt their stuff in the 1980s and work in places where they have no need to learn more contemporary languages (note that I am avoiding the stink-word: 'modern'), and have never really given a moment's thought to what might happen if they suddenly find themselves at the road's end with a severance envelope. Just to really bang my message home: in Bulgaria's tax offices everything runs on DOS, using tax packages that were adopted when DOS was the latest 'thang'. Now, I don't actually see anything wrong (unlike a lot of other people) about using DOS and DOS-based software packages if they do the job that is required (why spend money and buckets of time retraining staff when your system works 100% the way you need it to?). What I do see as wrong is that very many adults, having done their training when they were at University (say in their early 20s) have never felt any need to update their knowledge about anything whatsoever since they graduated. This applies to teachers, doctors, lawyers and so on, as well as computer programmers. But, this is very much the majority view here in Bulgaria [this *may* be one of the reasons that Bulgaria is very much at the bottom of the "treacle well" when compared with other post-Communist bloc countries]. > If you are interested in object-oriented > programming you might want to skip the > C++ and go straight to objective-C. I'm not that interested, as, at the moment, at least, LiveCode does almost all that I require (let's leave communicating back-and-forth between USB devices out of this discussion). What I am interested in is how to communicate adequately to people who have grown up with 3G languages the very great advantages (particularly from a pedagogical point of view) of LiveCode. While the C++ book I bought makes interesting reading, in parts, I cannot see myself bothering to learn to code anything beyond the most pedestrian stuff in it: even if for the simple reason that all that bother about "/edit, preprocess, compile, link, load/ and /execute/" gives me the willies. In fact, thinking about "/edit, preprocess, compile, link, load/ and /execute/" I really wonder what RunRev think they are doing, as the lack of all the fiddly stuff is half of what makes LiveCode so much better. RunRev's propaganda machine hasn't got off the ground! Richmond. > > John Balgenorth > > > On Aug 11, 2015, at 10:48 AM, Richmond wrote: > >> I am having a problem with a load of belligerent parents who seem quite unable to understand >> what LiveCode is. These parents work at the local Non-Ferrous Metals factory and are highly skilled >> engineers, but learnt their programming when I did (i.e. when the dinosaurs were alive), and >> need to be slapped with a description of the sort they can understand. >> >> The truth of the matter is that almost all of them are probably about a gazillion times better at FORTAN and Pascal than I ever was . . . >> >> Saying things like "Hypercard on steroids" brings only blank looks as these poor people, while >> I was enjoying getting bogged down in HC in Carbondale, Illinois, were fighting for survival during the mid-90s economic >> disaster that affected post-Communist countries. >> >> Now I came across this: http://www.metacard.com/wp1a.html >> >> "Third generation includes most compiled languages, including older ones such as Pascal, Fortran, C, BASIC (Beginners All-purpose Symbolic Instruction Code), and COBOL (COmmon Business Oriented Language), but also includes newer derivatives like C++ and Java >> >> "Fourth generation languages are the proprietary languages used to develop database applications >> >> "Scripting languages, like MetaTalk, Perl, ksh, Tcl, and Python, are most similar to 4GLs, >> but generally are even higher level and were designed to be general purpose tools rather than specifically for dealing with databases " >> >> which is the sort of 'guff' they will understand [Hey, as far as I am concerned, who gives a "monkey's" - >> does the job, normally marvellously] but only goes half way. >> >> So . . . ? >> >> Am I to describe LiveCode as: >> >> 1. A fifth generation language? and if so, how will I explain the difference between that and 3rd and 4th G languages? >> >> Directly scriptable objects? >> >> No compiling nonsense? >> >> 2. Plastic bath toys? This will turn these people (with their kids!!!!) off instanter. >> >> 3. Something else? >> >> Being a retro sort of chap I just bought (!!!!!) /How to program C++/, second edition, 1998 for the princely sum of 1 Euro . . . well, as far >> as I'm concerned it IS worth having! >> >> Now, on page 10 it has this to say: >> >> "C++ . . . provides a number of features that "spruce up" the C language, but more importantly, it provides capabilities for >> /object-oriented programming/." >> >> Which, from the point of view of a long-term LiveCode monomaniac (me) looks fine until you start looking for buttons, fields >> and so forth . . . >> >> Anyway, the C++ is going to be my "bathroom book of the month" and we'll see how far it gets me . . . >> >> HOWEVER, I am still left with these stroppy parents who cannot quite understand what the advantages of LiveCode over Pascal, >> FORTRAN and C++ might possibly be for their pre-adolescent children, because, while those kids might learn to program >> Mickey Mouse guff with LC they will still have to learn a "Real Programming" language when they are older [ this is when I have to >> sit on my hands and count to ten]. >> >> Richmond. >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Tue Aug 11 15:21:46 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 22:21:46 +0300 Subject: Describing LiveCode In-Reply-To: <0B63C8B9-2868-46C7-A620-3528E44A6084@gmail.com> References: <55CA3576.5060400@gmail.com> <0B63C8B9-2868-46C7-A620-3528E44A6084@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55CA4B4A.6070906@gmail.com> On 11/08/15 21:46, Peter M. Brigham wrote: > May be conducting a parents' night in which you demonstrate something simple with livecode to show its ease of access and manageable learning curve, then rope the kids in to show off what they have done, and finally summarize the advanced projects that people have used it for. In my experience, mentioning that LC powers the Landsat 7 satellite data collection enterprise usually gets people to sit up and open their eyes. Lots of similar applications mentioned on the LC website. Right: with Wine and cheese. Smashing idea! Richmond. > > -- Peter > > Peter M. Brigham > pmbrig at gmail.com > http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig > > > On Aug 11, 2015, at 1:48 PM, Richmond wrote: > >> I am having a problem with a load of belligerent parents who seem quite unable to understand >> what LiveCode is. These parents work at the local Non-Ferrous Metals factory and are highly skilled >> engineers, but learnt their programming when I did (i.e. when the dinosaurs were alive), and >> need to be slapped with a description of the sort they can understand. >> >> The truth of the matter is that almost all of them are probably about a gazillion times better at FORTAN and Pascal than I ever was . . . >> >> Saying things like "Hypercard on steroids" brings only blank looks as these poor people, while >> I was enjoying getting bogged down in HC in Carbondale, Illinois, were fighting for survival during the mid-90s economic >> disaster that affected post-Communist countries. >> >> Now I came across this: http://www.metacard.com/wp1a.html >> >> "Third generation includes most compiled languages, including older ones such as Pascal, Fortran, C, BASIC (Beginners All-purpose Symbolic Instruction Code), and COBOL (COmmon Business Oriented Language), but also includes newer derivatives like C++ and Java >> >> "Fourth generation languages are the proprietary languages used to develop database applications >> >> "Scripting languages, like MetaTalk, Perl, ksh, Tcl, and Python, are most similar to 4GLs, >> but generally are even higher level and were designed to be general purpose tools rather than specifically for dealing with databases " >> >> which is the sort of 'guff' they will understand [Hey, as far as I am concerned, who gives a "monkey's" - >> does the job, normally marvellously] but only goes half way. >> >> So . . . ? >> >> Am I to describe LiveCode as: >> >> 1. A fifth generation language? and if so, how will I explain the difference between that and 3rd and 4th G languages? >> >> Directly scriptable objects? >> >> No compiling nonsense? >> >> 2. Plastic bath toys? This will turn these people (with their kids!!!!) off instanter. >> >> 3. Something else? >> >> Being a retro sort of chap I just bought (!!!!!) /How to program C++/, second edition, 1998 for the princely sum of 1 Euro . . . well, as far >> as I'm concerned it IS worth having! >> >> Now, on page 10 it has this to say: >> >> "C++ . . . provides a number of features that "spruce up" the C language, but more importantly, it provides capabilities for >> /object-oriented programming/." >> >> Which, from the point of view of a long-term LiveCode monomaniac (me) looks fine until you start looking for buttons, fields >> and so forth . . . >> >> Anyway, the C++ is going to be my "bathroom book of the month" and we'll see how far it gets me . . . >> >> HOWEVER, I am still left with these stroppy parents who cannot quite understand what the advantages of LiveCode over Pascal, >> FORTRAN and C++ might possibly be for their pre-adolescent children, because, while those kids might learn to program >> Mickey Mouse guff with LC they will still have to learn a "Real Programming" language when they are older [ this is when I have to >> sit on my hands and count to ten]. >> >> Richmond. >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Tue Aug 11 15:46:10 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 14:46:10 -0500 Subject: Describing LiveCode In-Reply-To: <55CA4B4A.6070906@gmail.com> References: <55CA3576.5060400@gmail.com> <0B63C8B9-2868-46C7-A620-3528E44A6084@gmail.com> <55CA4B4A.6070906@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55CA5102.4070908@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/11/2015 2:21 PM, Richmond wrote: > On 11/08/15 21:46, Peter M. Brigham wrote: >> May be conducting a parents' night in which you demonstrate something >> simple with livecode to show its ease of access and manageable >> learning curve, then rope the kids in to show off what they have done, >> and finally summarize the advanced projects that people have used it >> for. In my experience, mentioning that LC powers the Landsat 7 >> satellite data collection enterprise usually gets people to sit up and >> open their eyes. Lots of similar applications mentioned on the LC >> website. > > Right: with Wine and cheese. > > Smashing idea! That was going to be my suggestion too. Also include, as someone else suggested, an explanation of how LC teaches foundational programming skills in an easily understood way, which makes learning any other language much simpler. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From sundown at pacifier.com Tue Aug 11 15:50:05 2015 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 12:50:05 -0700 Subject: Describing LiveCode In-Reply-To: <55CA4AFE.2040607@gmail.com> References: <55CA3576.5060400@gmail.com> <35642C06-DCF3-4B44-9157-528E0F896D12@pacifier.com> <55CA4AFE.2040607@gmail.com> Message-ID: <694DB24E-0FA3-4430-B373-D65E45833AB7@pacifier.com> On Aug 11, 2015, at 12:20 PM, Richmond wrote: > I'm not that interested, as, at the moment, at least, LiveCode does almost all that I require (let's leave communicating > back-and-forth between USB devices out of this discussion). > > What I am interested in is how to communicate adequately to people who have grown up with 3G languages the > very great advantages (particularly from a pedagogical point of view) of LiveCode. > > While the C++ book I bought makes interesting reading, in parts, I cannot see myself bothering to learn to code > anything beyond the most pedestrian stuff in it: even if for the simple reason that all that bother about > "/edit, preprocess, compile, link, load/ and /execute/" gives me the willies. > > In fact, thinking about "/edit, preprocess, compile, link, load/ and /execute/" I really wonder what RunRev think they are doing, > as the lack of all the fiddly stuff is half of what makes LiveCode so much better. RunRev's propaganda machine hasn't got off the ground! > > Richmond. LiveCode will be allowing the use of pointers and that is what your old school C++ parents who talk about object-oreinted programming are referring to. They point to a place in memory. These old schoolers will probably love the fact Livecode will be able to use these things without compiling. John Balgenorth From cs_livecode at icloud.com Tue Aug 11 16:11:21 2015 From: cs_livecode at icloud.com (Chris Sheffield) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 14:11:21 -0600 Subject: Release 6.7.7 RC 2 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <85F3388E-9B0B-4110-8750-1E14A293936C@icloud.com> There seems to be an issue with visual effects in iOS in this build, specifically with the push left/right effects and navigating between cards. There?s a flash that occurs after the animation finishes, where you very briefly see the card you just came from. This does not happen with LC 6.7.6. I?ll file a bug report, but thought I?d mention it here to see if anyone else has noticed. Thanks, Chris -- Chris Sheffield Read Naturally, Inc. www.readnaturally.com > On Aug 11, 2015, at 10:17 AM, panagiotis merakos wrote: > > Dear List Members, > > > We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 6.7.7 RC 2. This release > is a maintenance release which contains regression fixes. The list of > regressions fixed can be found in the Release Notes. > > > *Getting the Release* > > To get the release please select "Check For Updates" from the "Help" menu > in the product or download the installer directly at: > http://downloads.livecode.com > > > *6.7.7 Stable* > > The next release should occur in the beginning of the next week. It is > planned to be the Stable release of LiveCode 6.7.7, unless regressions are > noticed and need to be fixed. > > > Warm regards, > > The LiveCode Team > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Tue Aug 11 16:46:19 2015 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 22:46:19 +0200 Subject: Describing LiveCode In-Reply-To: <55CA3576.5060400@gmail.com> References: <55CA3576.5060400@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55CA5F1B.7000607@economy-x-talk.com> Hi Richmond, I wrote this some time ago: http://www3.economy-x-talk.com/blog/2014/02/24/what-is-livecode/ Also, LiveCode really is a 4GL. Every 4GL has a specialisation. Some are for managing databases, others for instructing cutting machines, and again others for giving easy access to the API's of a GUI-based general-purpose operating system. Sometimes, I think I might have found a 5GL, but then I realise that essentially it still is 4GL. I was going to write a definition for a 5GL, but now I'm thinking this would be OT. -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer KvK: 50277553 Installer Maker for LiveCode: http://qery.us/468 Buy my new book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner" http://qery.us/3fi LiveCode on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/runrev/ On 8/11/2015 19:48, Richmond wrote: > I am having a problem with a load of belligerent parents who seem quite > unable to understand > what LiveCode is. These parents work at the local Non-Ferrous Metals > factory and are highly skilled > engineers, but learnt their programming when I did (i.e. when the > dinosaurs were alive), and > need to be slapped with a description of the sort they can understand. > > The truth of the matter is that almost all of them are probably about a > gazillion times better at FORTAN and Pascal than I ever was . . . > > Saying things like "Hypercard on steroids" brings only blank looks as > these poor people, while > I was enjoying getting bogged down in HC in Carbondale, Illinois, were > fighting for survival during the mid-90s economic > disaster that affected post-Communist countries. > > Now I came across this: http://www.metacard.com/wp1a.html > > "Third generation includes most compiled languages, including older ones > such as Pascal, Fortran, C, BASIC (Beginners All-purpose Symbolic > Instruction Code), and COBOL (COmmon Business Oriented Language), but > also includes newer derivatives like C++ and Java > > "Fourth generation languages are the proprietary languages used to > develop database applications > > "Scripting languages, like MetaTalk, Perl, ksh, Tcl, and Python, are > most similar to 4GLs, > but generally are even higher level and were designed to be general > purpose tools rather than specifically for dealing with databases " > > which is the sort of 'guff' they will understand [Hey, as far as I am > concerned, who gives a "monkey's" - > does the job, normally marvellously] but only goes half way. > > So . . . ? > > Am I to describe LiveCode as: > > 1. A fifth generation language? and if so, how will I explain the > difference between that and 3rd and 4th G languages? > > Directly scriptable objects? > > No compiling nonsense? > > 2. Plastic bath toys? This will turn these people (with their kids!!!!) > off instanter. > > 3. Something else? > > Being a retro sort of chap I just bought (!!!!!) /How to program C++/, > second edition, 1998 for the princely sum of 1 Euro . . . well, as far > as I'm concerned it IS worth having! > > Now, on page 10 it has this to say: > > "C++ . . . provides a number of features that "spruce up" the C > language, but more importantly, it provides capabilities for > /object-oriented programming/." > > Which, from the point of view of a long-term LiveCode monomaniac (me) > looks fine until you start looking for buttons, fields > and so forth . . . > > Anyway, the C++ is going to be my "bathroom book of the month" and we'll > see how far it gets me . . . > > HOWEVER, I am still left with these stroppy parents who cannot quite > understand what the advantages of LiveCode over Pascal, > FORTRAN and C++ might possibly be for their pre-adolescent children, > because, while those kids might learn to program > Mickey Mouse guff with LC they will still have to learn a "Real > Programming" language when they are older [ this is when I have to > sit on my hands and count to ten]. > > Richmond. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From userev at canelasoftware.com Tue Aug 11 18:48:00 2015 From: userev at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 15:48:00 -0700 Subject: MetaCard ftp site In-Reply-To: <55C9B965.3050508@gmail.com> References: <55C9B965.3050508@gmail.com> Message-ID: <9DFCE3A7-B160-4167-B7FD-A675E65A834B@canelasoftware.com> > On Aug 11, 2015, at 1:59 AM, Richmond wrote: > > Is this FTP site defunct? > > ftp://ftp.metacard.com/MetaCard > > and if it is not is there some reason it is password protected? > > Richmond. I have a copy of the MetaCard files here: http://www.canelasoftware.com/metacard.html Best regards, Mark Talluto canelasoftware.com CassiaDB: The easy to use, free local storage database made for LiveCode Developers: livecloud.io From sundown at pacifier.com Tue Aug 11 21:59:54 2015 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 18:59:54 -0700 Subject: MetaCard ftp site In-Reply-To: <9DFCE3A7-B160-4167-B7FD-A675E65A834B@canelasoftware.com> References: <55C9B965.3050508@gmail.com> <9DFCE3A7-B160-4167-B7FD-A675E65A834B@canelasoftware.com> Message-ID: <943913E6-5AC5-4401-97F9-FD51E117F2A7@pacifier.com> Thank you! John Balgenorth On Aug 11, 2015, at 3:48 PM, Mark Talluto wrote: > >> On Aug 11, 2015, at 1:59 AM, Richmond wrote: >> >> Is this FTP site defunct? >> >> ftp://ftp.metacard.com/MetaCard >> >> and if it is not is there some reason it is password protected? >> >> Richmond. > > I have a copy of the MetaCard files here: http://www.canelasoftware.com/metacard.html > > > Best regards, > > Mark Talluto > canelasoftware.com > > CassiaDB: The easy to use, free local storage database made for LiveCode Developers: livecloud.io > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From brahma at hindu.org Tue Aug 11 22:17:17 2015 From: brahma at hindu.org (Brahmanathaswami) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 16:17:17 -1000 Subject: Get Modification Date of a Single File Message-ID: <55CAACAD.5020409@hindu.org> can we check the modification date of a single file? use case: mobile; get date of local file resource; ping LC server check on mod date of the same resource, if latter is younger, then fetch it -- Swasti Astu, Be Well! Brahmanathaswami Kauai's Hindu Monastery www.HimalayanAcademy.com From sundown at pacifier.com Tue Aug 11 22:40:22 2015 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 19:40:22 -0700 Subject: Get Modification Date of a Single File In-Reply-To: <55CAACAD.5020409@hindu.org> References: <55CAACAD.5020409@hindu.org> Message-ID: <573259A4-A8C6-498B-89C9-D66D0539796E@pacifier.com> I don?t have a mobile but on the older versions for desktops you use Files command. The detailed files form returns a list of files, one file per line. Each line contains the following attributes, separated by commas: * The file's name, URL-encoded * The file's size in bytes (on Mac OS and OS X systems, the size of the file's data fork) * The resource fork size in bytes (Mac OS and OS X systems only) * The file's creation date in seconds (Mac OS, OS X, and Windows systems only) * The file's modification date in seconds * The file's last-accessed date in seconds (Unix, OS X and Windows systems only) * The file's last-backup date in seconds (Mac OS and OS X systems only) * The file's owner (Unix and OS X systems only) * The file's group owner (Unix and OS X systems only) * The file's access permissions * The file's creator and file type (Mac OS and OS X only) Any attribute that is not supported on the current system is reported as empty. John Balgenorth On Aug 11, 2015, at 7:17 PM, Brahmanathaswami wrote: > can we check the modification date of a single file? > > use case: mobile; get date of local file resource; ping LC server check on mod date of the same resource, if latter is younger, then fetch it > > -- > Swasti Astu, Be Well! > Brahmanathaswami > > Kauai's Hindu Monastery > www.HimalayanAcademy.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Tue Aug 11 22:55:02 2015 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 10:55:02 +0800 Subject: Describing LiveCode In-Reply-To: <55CA5F1B.7000607@economy-x-talk.com> References: <55CA3576.5060400@gmail.com> <55CA5F1B.7000607@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: Richmond, My advise is similar to Peter, William and Jacque's, but more blunt! First ask how many of these parents know how to set up a Facebook page, send a Tweet, interact with Instagram, send a message on SnapChat, change the ringtone on their phone on a per individual basis and even block certain incoming phone calls based on who it is and what the time is. When their eye's glaze over and it's clear that the vast majority of them don't use social media or bother with these features on the smart phone then point out that their children do. Make it quite clear that the parents are dinosaurs and their ideas of what programming is about is way out dated and leading their children to coding extinction*. Let them know that their children a growing up in a rapidly changing technology environment and need a technology/programming language that is equally as rapid at keeping pace with this change. Ask their parents if their children are like them, do they have boundless patience, do they sit down with an Airfix model and spend hours and hours meticulously preparing the parts so they fit perfectly. Appropriate parts are painted in several coats over several days because each coat is allowed to dry fully before the next is applied. Then the parts are carefully glued together and then finally finished off with the last coats of paint and the application of transfers. OR, do their children prefer to play 1st person shootem-ups and are easily bored if anything takes longer than about 2 min 13 sec? Ask the parents how long it took them to write their first 'real' program (Hello World doesn't count). LiveCode is a Rapid Development program highly suited to today's environment not only allowing the rapid development of applications but also keeping pace with the ever changing platform/capabilities now and in the future. Tried to find that video of Kevin writing an app in a couple of minutes - it picked the Lucky Door prize winner. But I couldn't find it on the website. As for why learn LiveCode now when their children are going to learn a real programming language later on, this is a completely fallacious in that assumes that their children have any interest at all in programming. On the other side of the coin is the possibility that they might in fact be learning LiveCode in the future: https://livecode.com/gracemount -high-school/ * Note the inference that classic languages are perceived by students as boring and can do more to turn students off. As you are in Scotland it should also be pointed out that the Scottish Schools using a product from a Scotland based company should be something your parents should be wholeheartedly supporting. What is true is that if their children are going to develop any kind of interest in programming, and go on to desire to pursue a coding profession, then having learnt LC isn't going to be a detriment, the principles learnt will stand them in good stead should they decide to try C#, C++, C or even go on an archaeological dig and try FORTRAN or Assembly. So, for those few children (not the parents) who actually do have a real desire to learn coding, then LC will kindle that fire; anything else will be like throwing logs on the smouldering embers and do nothing but smother the fire. Definitely visit the LiveCode stories pages ( https://livecode.com/livecode-stories/ ) and along with the Landsat story, pick a few more. There seem to be a few educational orientated ones that support the notion that LC with kindle the fire. From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Tue Aug 11 23:02:17 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 20:02:17 -0700 Subject: Describing LiveCode In-Reply-To: <55CA4B4A.6070906@gmail.com> References: <55CA3576.5060400@gmail.com> <0B63C8B9-2868-46C7-A620-3528E44A6084@gmail.com> <55CA4B4A.6070906@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55CAB739.5060304@ahsoftware.net> On 08/11/2015 12:21 PM, Richmond wrote: > On 11/08/15 21:46, Peter M. Brigham wrote: >> May be conducting a parents' night in which you demonstrate something >> simple with livecode to show its ease of access and manageable >> learning curve, then rope the kids in to show off what they have done, >> and finally summarize the advanced projects that people have used it >> for. In my experience, mentioning that LC powers the Landsat 7 >> satellite data collection enterprise usually gets people to sit up and >> open their eyes. Lots of similar applications mentioned on the LC >> website. > > Right: with Wine and cheese. > > Smashing idea! ... and if it helps any, tell them that I have used LC in a commercial application to interpolate between a database that doesn't understand Windows ActiveX objects and Quickbooks, using the text and xml processing capabilities of LiveCode to talk to a C++ shim that in turn talks to the Quickbooks COM library. database <--> text files <--> LiveCode <--> C++ shim <--> Quickbooks COM object <--> Quickbooks It's not the weirdest thing I've put together, but it's close. Could have done the whole thing in C++, but it would have taken five times as long to develop and debug and not been nearly as readable nor maintainable. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From brahma at hindu.org Wed Aug 12 00:43:15 2015 From: brahma at hindu.org (Brahmanathaswami) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 18:43:15 -1000 Subject: Set Variable or CustomProperty Names with and expression Message-ID: <55CACEE3.5040407@hindu.org> I want to move data from one variable to several others by parsing one and passing them to another (s) In this scenario... the variable I want to pass them to needs to be named according to one of the search items like this: where I want variable based on category names like: lifeset godset meditation set etc. categories are e.g. life,god,meditation ----------- repeat for each line x in gAllQuotes repeat for each item y in tCategories if item 6 of x contains y then put x & cr & "|" after ("t" &y&"set") end repeat end repeat set the uLifeSet of this stack to tlifeset ------------------- But apparently this is illegal... a variable name cannot be the result of an expression. I suppose I should think about using arrays, but this is a very small amount of text data (less than 200K of line/tab delimited data) and I never found the processing time for just parsing delimited text to be that serious an issue... Any clues? I'll sleep on this...perhaps get an answer in a dream tonite. If not, I'll be looking for one here BR From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Wed Aug 12 01:24:30 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 22:24:30 -0700 Subject: Release 6.7.7 RC 2 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55CAD88E.6000909@ahsoftware.net> On 08/11/2015 09:17 AM, panagiotis merakos wrote: > Dear List Members, > > > We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 6.7.7 RC 2. I'm a bit less pleased. The linux uninstaller no longer works for LC 6.7.7rc1 or rc2. http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15707 ...also rather annoyed that 15575 still hasn't been fixed. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Wed Aug 12 02:28:11 2015 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 08:28:11 +0200 Subject: Set Variable or CustomProperty Names with and expression In-Reply-To: <55CACEE3.5040407@hindu.org> References: <55CACEE3.5040407@hindu.org> Message-ID: <55CAE77B.7090800@economy-x-talk.com> Use arrays: put x into myArray["set"]["life"] Arrays may be a little slow, but creating variables on the fly will be slow too. If speed really is an issue, please post a sample of your source data and the desired output. -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer KvK: 50277553 Installer Maker for LiveCode: http://qery.us/468 Buy my new book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner" http://qery.us/3fi LiveCode on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/runrev/ On 8/12/2015 06:43, Brahmanathaswami wrote: > I want to move data from one variable to several others by parsing one > and passing them to another (s) > > In this scenario... the variable I want to pass them to needs to be > named according to one of the search items > > like this: > > where I want variable based on category names like: > > lifeset > godset > meditation set > > etc. > > categories are e.g. > > life,god,meditation > > ----------- > repeat for each line x in gAllQuotes > > repeat for each item y in tCategories > if item 6 of x contains y then > put x & cr & "|" after ("t" &y&"set") > end repeat > end repeat > > set the uLifeSet of this stack to tlifeset > > ------------------- > > But apparently this is illegal... a variable name cannot be the result > of an expression. > > I suppose I should think about using arrays, but this is a very small > amount of text data (less than 200K of line/tab delimited data) and I > never found the processing time for just parsing delimited text to be > that serious an issue... > > Any clues? I'll sleep on this...perhaps get an answer in a dream tonite. > > If not, I'll be looking for one here > > BR > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From peter.brett at livecode.com Wed Aug 12 02:54:14 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 07:54:14 +0100 Subject: Release 6.7.7 RC 2 In-Reply-To: <55CAD88E.6000909@ahsoftware.net> References: <55CAD88E.6000909@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <0f1b4eda2b72da9f1500e3d5916acc4c@livecode.com> On 2015-08-12 06:24, Mark Wieder wrote: > The linux uninstaller no longer works for LC 6.7.7rc1 or rc2. > > http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15707 Thank you for filing the bug. > ...also rather annoyed that 15575 still hasn't been fixed. Unfortunately, we weren't able to fix bug 15575 in time for LiveCode 6.7.7. Hopefully we will be able to fix it in time for the 6.7.8 release cycle. Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Engine Development Team From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Aug 12 02:55:28 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 09:55:28 +0300 Subject: Describing LiveCode In-Reply-To: References: <55CA3576.5060400@gmail.com> <55CA5F1B.7000607@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: <55CAEDE0.8080905@gmail.com> On 12/08/15 05:55, Kay C Lan wrote: > Richmond, > > My advise is similar to Peter, William and Jacque's, but more blunt! > > First ask how many of these parents know how to set up a Facebook page, > send a Tweet, interact with Instagram, send a message on SnapChat, change > the ringtone on their phone on a per individual basis and even block > certain incoming phone calls based on who it is and what the time is. When > their eye's glaze over and it's clear that the vast majority of them don't > use social media or bother with these features on the smart phone then > point out that their children do. Make it quite clear that the parents are > dinosaurs and their ideas of what programming is about is way out dated and > leading their children to coding extinction*. Let them know that their > children a growing up in a rapidly changing technology environment and need > a technology/programming language that is equally as rapid at keeping pace > with this change. Unfortunately the parents I have to deal with will think that I am insulting them when I say this sort of thing. > > Ask their parents if their children are like them, do they have boundless > patience, do they sit down with an Airfix model and spend hours and hours > meticulously preparing the parts so they fit perfectly. Appropriate parts > are painted in several coats over several days because each coat is allowed > to dry fully before the next is applied. Then the parts are carefully glued > together and then finally finished off with the last coats of paint and the > application of transfers. OR, do their children prefer to play 1st person > shootem-ups and are easily bored if anything takes longer than about 2 min > 13 sec? Ask the parents how long it took them to write their first 'real' > program (Hello World doesn't count). > > LiveCode is a Rapid Development program highly suited to today's > environment not only allowing the rapid development of applications but > also keeping pace with the ever changing platform/capabilities now and in > the future. > > Tried to find that video of Kevin writing an app in a couple of minutes - > it picked the Lucky Door prize winner. But I couldn't find it on the > website. > > As for why learn LiveCode now when their children are going to learn a real > programming language later on, this is a completely fallacious in that > assumes that their children have any interest at all in programming. On the > other side of the coin is the possibility that they might in fact be > learning LiveCode in the future: https://livecode.com/gracemount > -high-school/ > > * Note the inference that classic languages are perceived by students as > boring and can do more to turn students off. > > As you are in Scotland it should also be pointed out that the Scottish > Schools using a product from a Scotland based company should be something > your parents should be wholeheartedly supporting. I am in Bulgaria, and have been running my school here for 10 years. > > What is true is that if their children are going to develop any kind of > interest in programming, and go on to desire to pursue a coding profession, > then having learnt LC isn't going to be a detriment, the principles learnt > will stand them in good stead should they decide to try C#, C++, C or even > go on an archaeological dig and try FORTRAN or Assembly. > > So, for those few children (not the parents) who actually do have a real > desire to learn coding, then LC will kindle that fire; anything else will > be like throwing logs on the smouldering embers and do nothing but smother > the fire. That has already become clear with the kids who have worked with me on LiveCode. > > Definitely visit the LiveCode stories pages ( > https://livecode.com/livecode-stories/ > ) and along with the Landsat story, pick a few more. There seem to be a few > educational orientated ones that support the notion that LC with kindle the > fire. > _______________________________________________ > Richmond. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Aug 12 03:23:35 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 10:23:35 +0300 Subject: Describing LiveCode In-Reply-To: <55CA3576.5060400@gmail.com> References: <55CA3576.5060400@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55CAF477.2030907@gmail.com> I have just had an e-mail from the Mothership that says this: "I want to improve your business, your cash flow, and your development work. "To do this, we launched a new Business Application Framework. This framework brings object-oriented programming to LiveCode, is compatible with GIT and other version management systems, and allows you to do your LiveCoding work in teams. Go ahead, do a happy dance." [well, I don't know about a 'happy dance', possibly a *confused twitch* might be nearer the mark] It certainly sounds interesting; but exciting, um, not so sure. Now, even I know that LiveCode is what is called *Object-based*. Quite apart from the fact that in my crystal ball I can see an upswell of protest from people who expect everything for free and forget that Kevin probably likes cheese in his fridge as much as everybody else except a few vegans, I am wondering what the *BAF* will actually entail. Wacky-pedia says this: "The term "object-based language" may be used in a technical sense to describe any programming language that uses the idea of encapsulating state and operations inside "objects". Object-based languages need not support *inheritance* or *subtyping*, but those that do are also said to be "object-oriented"." [my bolding] and it is very easy to see how the first sentence in that quote is applicable to LiveCode. "code written to operate on elements of the *supertype* can also operate on elements of the *subtype*" [my bolding] does that mean that if I write in a cardScript: on openCard set the backGroundColor of me to red end openCard all the objects on the card will end up going red? or is that an example of *inheritance*? And why do I have a feeling that LiveCode already exhibits some elements of inheritance? Now I know I live and work in a small bubble in a small town in a small country at the bottom of the Treacle Well, but that e-mail leaves more questions both unasked and unanswered than anything else. Here's one that immediately springs to mind: 1. If LiveCode 8 is introducing a new language, and this BAF is introducing a new language (or features that could make the LC language mutate into something else), what will constitute the LC language in a few years time: the whole jingbang of 2 and a half languages, of 'just' the core LC language? 1.1. If one is to teach LiveCode should one restrict oneself to the core language or should one consider getting one's head (and bank account) around the other ones and teaching those as well? Err . . . and as you can see from my "one" question, questions seem to generate more questions willy-nilly. Now let's suppose (chance would be a fine thing) that I suddenly have pots of moolah to invest in the BAF. First of all I would want some explanation and demonstration that goes a hell of a lot further than that mailshot. Richmond. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Aug 12 06:28:01 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 13:28:01 +0300 Subject: [OT] Teaching methodology Message-ID: <55CB1FB1.4000204@gmail.com> "Based on my experience with teaching programming to kids who already have some programming experience but are self-taught, I find that many of these self-taught programmers tend to focus on a very limited subset of one particular programming language and ignore the other, richer features because they have not had a systematic introduction to the language or to general principles of programming." That is a semi-quote from an acquaintance of mine trying to teach progging to High School kids in China. I would be grateful for lots of insight on my questions that stem from his statement. 1. Do children really need "a systematic introduction to the language or to general principles of programming" when it come to working with LiveCode? 2. Is this bit true in your experience of self-taught programmers: they "tend to focus on a very limited subset of one particular programming language and ignore the other, richer features" ?? 3. Id #2 is true have you any ideas on how to get self-taught programmers out of their "comfort zone" and leveraging other aspects of a programming language? Richmond. From jbv at souslelogo.com Wed Aug 12 06:58:30 2015 From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 13:58:30 +0300 Subject: [OT] Does anyone here read/speak Hindi ? Message-ID: <019c86f6205bc33eeddf84ae1fb7dd0f.squirrel@continental.on-rev.com> Hi list Does anyone here read/speak Hindi ? If yes, please contact me offlist; I need some help on a very short translation. Thanks in advance jbv From stgoldberg at aol.com Wed Aug 12 07:52:33 2015 From: stgoldberg at aol.com (stgoldberg at aol.com) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 07:52:33 -0400 Subject: Describing LiveCode Message-ID: <14f21c13285-1959-52bc2@webprd-m16.mail.aol.com> Just a reminder. I have written a "getting started" book that explains the essence of LiveCode in my book LiveCode Lite: Computer Programming Made Ridiculously Simple. It may be found as a free PDF download at http://medmaster.net/livecode.html. I have not put the book into print yet because of the ongoing rapid changes to LiveCode. In the meantime, I certainly look forward to any comments from readers that might improve the book's further development. Stephen Goldberg President, Medmaster Publishing Co. Prof Emeritus, Univ of Miami Sch of Medicine www.medmaster.net stgoldberg at aol.com From andrew at ctech.me Wed Aug 12 08:48:05 2015 From: andrew at ctech.me (Andrew Kluthe) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 12:48:05 +0000 Subject: Business Application Framework Message-ID: An object-oriented framework for livecode now featuring GIT support? Does anyone have any more information on this announcement I received? The rest of the email talked about the new business license, which does sound interesting. Is this new framework/git support new features specific to those using the new business license?. I think git support without having to fiddle around too much would be pretty important to an open source community. Monte's solution was very nice by the way, but it ought to be a thing an actual thing livecode can do out of the box. -- Kind regards, Andrew Kluthe From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Wed Aug 12 08:51:44 2015 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 14:51:44 +0200 Subject: [OT] Teaching methodology In-Reply-To: <55CB1FB1.4000204@gmail.com> References: <55CB1FB1.4000204@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55CB4160.40103@economy-x-talk.com> 1) A course can be systematic yet playful. The teacher needs to stick to a number of principles and a plan, but the children should just have fun and learn something. 2) When I create software, I do this with the skills I already possess. When I run into a problem, I enhance my skills until I can solve the problem. As a programmer, I am always ready to learn something new. If it is required to solve the problem, I'll learn a (to me) entirely new language. 3) Programmers want to work efficiently. If they decide to invest time into learning something new, they are already out of their comfort zone. However, if this is about the parents of the children you teach, you have a problem. These parents don't want to take the time to learn something new and they don't need to, but their children do. Do people really think that the world may fall apart, if everybody could suddenly make their own programmes? Until the late 1980s, everybody was forced to figure out programming by himself, because a) there were no specialized schools for this and b) the internet was only barely available. People went to computer clubs and everybody who was interested could not only make his or her own software, but also build his or her own computer! Did the world fall apart? No! I think you need to convince the parents that the world has changed. Not only has programming become easier, programming is now everywhere in our daily life and has become a required skill. Not only because some people might want to become a "programmer", but also because people need to be able to understand an error message on the computer, think logically when programming the microwave or DVR/PVR/STB, and be careful and precise when entering a key on the website of their bank. It would be ludicrous to think that everyone first would have to learn C++ to acquire these skills. I know a toddler who can't even talk yet, but uses pictures on a mobile phone to show what she likes to eat and then goes to Youtube to listen to her favourite music. In fact, I know several examples like this one. These people are not going to need programming languages the way we do now, but we need to offer them some framework within which they can develop their skills. 4GL's may offer this framework, together with Arduino's, Raspberry Pies, and who knows what else we'll see in the near future. -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer KvK: 50277553 Installer Maker for LiveCode: http://qery.us/468 Buy my new book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner" http://qery.us/3fi LiveCode on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/runrev/ On 8/12/2015 12:28, Richmond wrote: > "Based on my experience with teaching programming to kids who already > have some programming experience but are self-taught, > I find that many of these self-taught programmers tend to focus on a > very limited subset of one particular programming language > and ignore the other, richer features because they have not had a > systematic introduction to the language or to general principles > of programming." > > That is a semi-quote from an acquaintance of mine trying to teach > progging to High School kids in China. > > I would be grateful for lots of insight on my questions that stem from > his statement. > > 1. Do children really need "a systematic introduction to the language or > to general principles of programming" when it > come to working with LiveCode? > > 2. Is this bit true in your experience of self-taught programmers: > > they "tend to focus on a very limited subset of one particular > programming language > and ignore the other, richer features" ?? > > 3. Id #2 is true have you any ideas on how to get self-taught > programmers out of their "comfort zone" > and leveraging other aspects of a programming language? > > Richmond. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From skip at magicgate.com Wed Aug 12 09:15:59 2015 From: skip at magicgate.com (Magicgate Software - Skip Kimpel) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 09:15:59 -0400 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I am very interested as well but for some reason seem out of the loop on this development. Did I miss something in the roadmap? Curious.... SKIP On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 8:48 AM, Andrew Kluthe wrote: > An object-oriented framework for livecode now featuring GIT support? Does > anyone have any more information on this announcement I received? > > The rest of the email talked about the new business license, which does > sound interesting. Is this new framework/git support new features specific > to those using the new business license?. I think git support without > having to fiddle around too much would be pretty important to an open > source community. Monte's solution was very nice by the way, but it ought > to be a thing an actual thing livecode can do out of the box. > > -- > > Kind regards, > > Andrew Kluthe > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From bernd.niggemann at uni-wh.de Wed Aug 12 09:25:05 2015 From: bernd.niggemann at uni-wh.de (BNig) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 06:25:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Jane Austen's peculiarity In-Reply-To: <55CA22DC.1040105@gmail.com> References: <55C6318B.706@gmail.com> <3D836B60-2D64-45CC-B27C-E913DBBB59DD@thehales.id.au> <55CA22DC.1040105@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1439385905098-4694849.post@n4.nabble.com> Hi Richmond, in LC 7 you can use sentence as a text unit. Since sentence seems your context it is tempting to use that here is an adaption of the is/was handler returning the sentence number and the sentence Easy to read, easy to maintain and reasonably fast. Just paste the code into a copy of your button "is / are" ------------------------------------------------------- on mouseUp lock screen put the milliseconds into t put empty into fld "COOKED2" put empty into fld "STARTT" put empty into fld "STOPT" put "started : " & the long time into fld "STARTT" put fld "TEKST" into TEKST put fld "WERBS" into WERBS repeat for each line aVerb in Werbs put "is " & aVerb into tSearch1 put "are " & aVerb into tSearch2 put 1 into tCounter repeat for each sentence aSentence in TEKST if aSentence contains tSearch1 then put tCounter & space & aSentence & cr after tCollect end if if aSentence contains tSearch2 then put tCounter & space & aSentence & cr after tCollect2 end if add 1 to tCounter end repeat end repeat put tCollect & cr & tCollect2 into field "COOKED2" put "finished : " & the long time into fld "STOPT" -- put the milliseconds - t unlock screen end mouseUp -------------------------------------------------------- Kind regards Bernd -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Jane-Austen-s-peculiarity-tp4694658p4694849.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Wed Aug 12 09:41:16 2015 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 09:41:16 -0400 Subject: [OT] Teaching methodology In-Reply-To: <55CB4160.40103@economy-x-talk.com> References: <55CB1FB1.4000204@gmail.com> <55CB4160.40103@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: +1 On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 8:51 AM, Mark Schonewille < m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com> wrote: > 1) A course can be systematic yet playful. The teacher needs to stick to a > number of principles and a plan, but the children should just have fun and > learn something. > > 2) When I create software, I do this with the skills I already possess. > When I run into a problem, I enhance my skills until I can solve the > problem. As a programmer, I am always ready to learn something new. If it > is required to solve the problem, I'll learn a (to me) entirely new > language. > > 3) Programmers want to work efficiently. If they decide to invest time > into learning something new, they are already out of their comfort zone. > However, if this is about the parents of the children you teach, you have a > problem. These parents don't want to take the time to learn something new > and they don't need to, but their children do. > > Do people really think that the world may fall apart, if everybody could > suddenly make their own programmes? Until the late 1980s, everybody was > forced to figure out programming by himself, because a) there were no > specialized schools for this and b) the internet was only barely available. > > People went to computer clubs and everybody who was interested could not > only make his or her own software, but also build his or her own computer! > Did the world fall apart? No! > > I think you need to convince the parents that the world has changed. Not > only has programming become easier, programming is now everywhere in our > daily life and has become a required skill. Not only because some people > might want to become a "programmer", but also because people need to be > able to understand an error message on the computer, think logically when > programming the microwave or DVR/PVR/STB, and be careful and precise when > entering a key on the website of their bank. It would be ludicrous to think > that everyone first would have to learn C++ to acquire these skills. > > I know a toddler who can't even talk yet, but uses pictures on a mobile > phone to show what she likes to eat and then goes to Youtube to listen to > her favourite music. In fact, I know several examples like this one. These > people are not going to need programming languages the way we do now, but > we need to offer them some framework within which they can develop their > skills. 4GL's may offer this framework, together with Arduino's, Raspberry > Pies, and who knows what else we'll see in the near future. > > -- > Best regards, > > Mark Schonewille > From dunbarx at aol.com Wed Aug 12 09:54:02 2015 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx at aol.com) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 09:54:02 -0400 Subject: Set Variable or CustomProperty Names with and expression In-Reply-To: <55CACEE3.5040407@hindu.org> References: <55CACEE3.5040407@hindu.org> Message-ID: <14f22306bf8-1189-4bbfd@webprd-a24.mail.aol.com> This is a classic case of a line of code needing and extra level of evaluation. Goes back to 1987. So, arrays notwithstanding, which "parse" sections of code intrinsically, you could: repeat for each item y in tCategories do "if item 6 of" && x && "contains" && y && "then put" && x && "&" && cr & "| after" && t & y & "set" end repeat or: repeat for each item y in tCategories get ("t" & y & "set") if item 6 of x contains y then put x & cr & "|" after it end repeat Which way is a matter of style. Craig Newman -----Original Message----- From: Brahmanathaswami To: How to use LiveCode Sent: Wed, Aug 12, 2015 12:43 am Subject: Set Variable or CustomProperty Names with and expression I want to move data from one variable to several others by parsing one and passing them to another (s) In this scenario... the variable I want to pass them to needs to be named according to one of the search items like this: where I want variable based on category names like: lifeset godset meditation set etc. categories are e.g. life,god,meditation ----------- repeat for each line x in gAllQuotes repeat for each item y in tCategories if item 6 of x contains y then put x & cr & "|" after ("t" &y&"set") end repeat end repeat set the uLifeSet of this stack to tlifeset ------------------- But apparently this is illegal... a variable name cannot be the result of an expression. I suppose I should think about using arrays, but this is a very small amount of text data (less than 200K of line/tab delimited data) and I never found the processing time for just parsing delimited text to be that serious an issue... Any clues? I'll sleep on this...perhaps get an answer in a dream tonite. If not, I'll be looking for one here BR _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From brahma at hindu.org Wed Aug 12 10:28:46 2015 From: brahma at hindu.org (Brahmanathaswami) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 04:28:46 -1000 Subject: Get Modification Date of a Single File In-Reply-To: <573259A4-A8C6-498B-89C9-D66D0539796E@pacifier.com> References: <55CAACAD.5020409@hindu.org> <573259A4-A8C6-498B-89C9-D66D0539796E@pacifier.com> Message-ID: <55CB581E.10400@hindu.org> JB wrote: > I don?t have a mobile but on the older versions > for desktops you use Files command. > > The detailed files form returns a list of files, one file per line. Each line contains the following attributes, separated by commas: > * The file's name, URL-encoded > * The file's size in bytes (on Mac OS and OS X systems, the si [snip] I'm very familiar with this, as in my in house production apps that deal globally with work processes here on the LAN, these apps often do folder/file scans that get needed info. But it just seemed like a lot of work to me, to get info on a single file, to have to set the default folder, get the files, parse the file list for just the one you are interested in.. ideally one could just send the path of a file to a function that would return all this data for that one file. Very useful tool on the server also. There are numerous use case for the a standard size/modification date check... hmm makes me think I could find a shell for this. Looks like a case for a widget... Or perhaps we need to hire Monte to build this function for us. BR From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Aug 12 10:34:33 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 17:34:33 +0300 Subject: [OT] Teaching methodology In-Reply-To: <55CB4160.40103@economy-x-talk.com> References: <55CB1FB1.4000204@gmail.com> <55CB4160.40103@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: <55CB5979.6010402@gmail.com> On 12/08/15 15:51, Mark Schonewille wrote: > 1) A course can be systematic yet playful. The teacher needs to stick > to a number of principles and a plan, but the children should just > have fun and learn something. Of course. Except I take exception to the *just* in "just have fun" as that debases coding classes to the level of something to keep snotty-nosed children off their parents' backs, and there is far more to coding than that. While kids learning coding should find it enjoyable, they should also be aware that it is NOT 'fun' in the sense that a game of Snakes and Ladders is fun, but a whole lot more. > > 2) When I create software, I do this with the skills I already > possess. When I run into a problem, I enhance my skills until I can > solve the problem. As a programmer, I am always ready to learn > something new. If it is required to solve the problem, I'll learn a > (to me) entirely new language. Well, that goes for me as well. The semi-quote (i.e. I reconstructed it from a Skype chat I had with that chap) was not from me, but it did seem a provocative statement that could reflect some of my questions and worries, and how one can communicate those to people who are not experienced school teachers and not experienced xTalk coders. > > 3) Programmers want to work efficiently. If they decide to invest time > into learning something new, they are already out of their comfort > zone. However, if this is about the parents of the children you teach, > you have a problem. Bulgarians do not like teachers telling them what is good for their kids: even if some of those parents are, frankly, extremely ignorant. Bulgaria is also an intensely patriarchal society: I had a thundering fight with a father of 2 girls [he threw a chair at me] who had decided they should go to the hairdressers' school when they wanted to go to the Mathematics school: why? because Maths 'is' for boys. Luckily I prevailed and they will be starting at the Maths High school in September [admittedly at the price of their father thinking I am an insufferable pig . . . Ha, Ha!]. The father is an electronics engineer who programs circuit boards: I hope his daughters "rip shit" out of him in that field very soon indeed - and somebody else can cut his hair! > These parents don't want to take the time to learn something new and > they don't need to, but their children do. Ah, but stupid "Mummy" knows best, and stupid "Daddy" says 'Yes' to stupid "Mummy" - and, Please, don't tell me that is only a Bulgarian phenomenon, because it isn't. > > Do people really think that the world may fall apart, if everybody > could suddenly make their own programmes? Until the late 1980s, > everybody was forced to figure out programming by himself, because a) > there were no specialized schools for this and b) the internet was > only barely available. > > People went to computer clubs and everybody who was interested could > not only make his or her own software, but also build his or her own > computer! Did the world fall apart? No! Well, I started with MiniFortran at my school computer club 40 years ago: but Bulgaria was in the Communist chest freezer and those things just didn't happen. Only the very privileged (i.e. the kids of the Politburo) ever saw anything bearing a very faint resemblance to what we had in the West. > > I think you need to convince the parents that the world has changed. this is not really about the difficult parents. This is about whether I should bother to give the children I teach a long, tedious "systematic introduction" which will serve to turn most of them right off one day 1 [Oops . . . I seem to have answered my one question] or just get on with the programming. For instance, the 1998 book on C++ has absolutely "co**-crinkling" sections on "What is a computer?" going into excruciating detail. I generally start off by telling kids that a computer is a *box full of magical properties* that is only limited by our need to learn how to communicate with it properly, and that the way people communicate with computers is through a programming language. I then tell them, that, as cavemen communicated in a language that was simpler than ours, languages developed within the last 20 years are better and easier for communicating with computers than those developed 50 years ago. I also don't have an urge to tell them about *compiling* and *running* as with LiveCode it isn't necessary. > Not only has programming become easier, programming is now everywhere > in our daily life and has become a required skill. Like driving a car. AND, also like driving a car insofar as it is not a prerequisite to driving a car to understand all about internal combustion engines. > Not only because some people might want to become a "programmer", but > also because people need to be able to understand an error message on > the computer, think logically when programming the microwave or > DVR/PVR/STB, and be careful and precise when entering a key on the > website of their bank. It would be ludicrous to think that everyone > first would have to learn C++ to acquire these skills. I am beginning to wonder if the 'problem' both in terms of education and fossilised parents might not lie in the word *programming*. Maybe it is time to either chuck that term away, or use it strictly for people working with 1,2 & 3G languages, and use *coding* for 4G languages and beyond. I am quite sure that if I had to I could explain the distinction. > > I know a toddler who can't even talk yet, but uses pictures on a > mobile phone to show what she likes to eat and then goes to Youtube to > listen to her favourite music. In fact, I know several examples like > this one. These people are not going to need programming languages the > way we do now, but we need to offer them some framework within which > they can develop their skills. 4GL's may offer this framework, > together with Arduino's, Raspberry Pies, and who knows what else we'll > see in the near future. > > -- > Best regards, > > Mark Schonewille > Richmond. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Aug 12 10:40:02 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 17:40:02 +0300 Subject: Release 6.7.7 RC 2 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55CB5AC2.8030603@gmail.com> This probably an extremely stupid question, and I have asked something very similar before: Now LiveCode 7 is at 7.1 what is the point of continuing to release 6.7 upgrades? Richmond. From dochawk at gmail.com Wed Aug 12 10:45:27 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 07:45:27 -0700 Subject: [YO EDINBURGH!] Microsoft Open-Sources It's Toolkit For Making iOS Apps Run On Win 10 In-Reply-To: References: <23EE8F88-37C6-4ACB-959F-91F84A64918B@sweattechnologies.com> <55C83510.5080903@fourthworld.com> <7EE8E5DF-3754-45AD-A0D4-7AA66A66839A@sweattechnologies.com> <77CF2C90-FC30-4C03-BDCB-5E883FAD44F0@sahores-conseil.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 8:25 AM, Roger Eller wrote: > I think the majority of you have iOS devices > because it is what you LIKE, not because it represents what the majority or > even half of the population HAVE. Inexpensive Android devices are getting > better and better specs all the time, and lots of people buy them. > Actually, the platform for which people actually *pay* to buy apps on should be the focus . . . and by this metric, everything I've ever seen says android should be a mere afterthought. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From brahma at hindu.org Wed Aug 12 10:52:13 2015 From: brahma at hindu.org (Brahmanathaswami, Sannyasin) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 04:52:13 -1000 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 2:48 AM, Andrew Kluthe wrote: > I think git support without > having to fiddle around too much would be pretty important to an open > source community. > Where did this announcement appear? I haven't seen it in my email and it's not in my spam. I have to agree. I have paid (and paid and paid) RunRev from the very day (even before Kevin went "live" with the new company and was still transitioning from Scott's admin) for every offer to help with their cash flow into the future by buying into what is now an "indy" license for X number of years into the future. (I think I am up to 2021 now.) putting a lot of faith in this company, and convincing stakeholders, who hold the purse strings, that we can trust and depend on Kevin and his team going into the future... and now, to be told that to have a collaborative environment... we have to pay again.. this is a) very disappointing b) IMHO very bad strategy: while I appreciate and respect HQ's need for a revenue stream (as witnessed by my commitment to ever single long term offer the company ever made, including open source.) I don't think this a good strategy for the future of the product/language. All the other big guns, Node, Ruby, Javascript, PHP... you can just open a GIT account and go to work... but here we sit working on a stack pondering how we can share this with a colleague... I was just thinking about this the other day and wondering if we need resurrect "Magic Carpet" and us some kind or RCS for stack development collaboration. It would work, but still rather primitive in terms of being able to fork, regression options etc. Kevin stated on video in Southern California that he wanted LiveCode to be one of the 10 most popular used languages in the field. Locking collaboration behind a paywall is certainly going to kill that goal for sure. I suggest a different model for an additional revenue stream, one that is used by a fellow UK engineering team (Chris Graham) that runs the very successful OC Portal php CMS: Sell credit hours for support. e.g. you charge $25.00 per hour for support. I buy 10 hours.. pay LC $250.00. Check out OC Portal support model... best we have ever seen for a software product. If I need help HQ helps me until my hours run out. In Chris's case (high integrity factor there) if it is a bug in the software, he will not dock your credit hours. If your request is a "feature" request.. and it take him 20 hours to get it done... he does not bill you for the extra ten... why? Because he figures that the dialogue with his client about the new feature was a win-win since now OC Portal has a cool new widget/feature that enhances the product for everyone else and future prospects. His paid support clients are helping him build and build and build the product. Where is the announcement? From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Wed Aug 12 10:58:18 2015 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 10:58:18 -0400 Subject: [YO EDINBURGH!] Microsoft Open-Sources It's Toolkit For Making iOS Apps Run On Win 10 In-Reply-To: References: <23EE8F88-37C6-4ACB-959F-91F84A64918B@sweattechnologies.com> <55C83510.5080903@fourthworld.com> <7EE8E5DF-3754-45AD-A0D4-7AA66A66839A@sweattechnologies.com> <77CF2C90-FC30-4C03-BDCB-5E883FAD44F0@sahores-conseil.com> Message-ID: If your sources are from a newsfeed on an apple device, I am not surprised at what thoughts you are allowed to have. On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 10:45 AM, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 8:25 AM, Roger Eller > wrote: > > > I think the majority of you have iOS devices > > because it is what you LIKE, not because it represents what the majority > or > > even half of the population HAVE. Inexpensive Android devices are > getting > > better and better specs all the time, and lots of people buy them. > > > > Actually, the platform for which people actually *pay* to buy apps on > should be the focus . . . and by this metric, everything I've ever seen > says android should be a mere afterthought. > > > -- > Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. > (702) 508-8462 > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From pete at lcsql.com Wed Aug 12 11:02:38 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 15:02:38 +0000 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I got an email from Kevin about it yesterday. On Wed, Aug 12, 2015, 7:52 AM Brahmanathaswami, Sannyasin wrote: > On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 2:48 AM, Andrew Kluthe wrote: > > > I think git support without > > having to fiddle around too much would be pretty important to an open > > source community. > > > > > Where did this announcement appear? I haven't seen it in my email and it's > not in my spam. > > I have to agree. I have paid (and paid and paid) RunRev from the very day > (even before Kevin went "live" with the new company and was still > transitioning from Scott's admin) for every offer to help with their cash > flow into the future by buying into what is now an "indy" license for X > number of years into the future. (I think I am up to 2021 now.) putting a > lot of faith in this company, and convincing stakeholders, who hold the > purse strings, that we can trust and depend on Kevin and his team going > into the future... > > and now, to be told that to have a collaborative environment... we have to > pay again.. this is > > a) very disappointing > b) IMHO very bad strategy: while I appreciate and respect HQ's need for a > revenue stream (as witnessed by my commitment to ever single long term > offer the company ever made, including open source.) I don't think this a > good strategy for the future of the product/language. All the other big > guns, Node, Ruby, Javascript, PHP... you can just open a GIT account and go > to work... but here we sit working on a stack pondering how we can share > this with a colleague... I was just thinking about this the other day and > wondering if we need resurrect "Magic Carpet" and us some kind or RCS for > stack development collaboration. It would work, but still rather primitive > in terms of being able to fork, regression options etc. Kevin stated on > video in Southern California that he wanted LiveCode to be one of the 10 > most popular used languages in the field. Locking collaboration behind a > paywall is certainly going to kill that goal for sure. > > I suggest a different model for an additional revenue stream, one that is > used by a fellow UK engineering team (Chris Graham) that runs the very > successful OC Portal php CMS: Sell credit hours for support. e.g. you > charge $25.00 per hour for support. I buy 10 hours.. pay LC $250.00. Check > out OC Portal support model... best we have ever seen for a software > product. If I need help HQ helps me until my hours run out. In Chris's case > (high integrity factor there) if it is a bug in the software, he will not > dock your credit hours. If your request is a "feature" request.. and it > take him 20 hours to get it done... he does not bill you for the extra > ten... why? Because he figures that the dialogue with his client about the > new feature was a win-win since now OC Portal has a cool new widget/feature > that enhances the product for everyone else and future prospects. His paid > support clients are helping him build and build and build the product. > > Where is the announcement? > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Wed Aug 12 11:17:14 2015 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 11:17:14 -0400 Subject: [YO EDINBURGH!] Microsoft Open-Sources It's Toolkit For Making iOS Apps Run On Win 10 In-Reply-To: References: <23EE8F88-37C6-4ACB-959F-91F84A64918B@sweattechnologies.com> <55C83510.5080903@fourthworld.com> <7EE8E5DF-3754-45AD-A0D4-7AA66A66839A@sweattechnologies.com> <77CF2C90-FC30-4C03-BDCB-5E883FAD44F0@sahores-conseil.com> Message-ID: Read this; it didn't come from Apple though. $22B iOS -vs- $19B Android. http://readwrite.com/2014/07/03/ios-developer-android-developer-earnings-gap On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 10:45 AM, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 8:25 AM, Roger Eller > wrote: > > > I think the majority of you have iOS devices > > because it is what you LIKE, not because it represents what the majority > or > > even half of the population HAVE. Inexpensive Android devices are > getting > > better and better specs all the time, and lots of people buy them. > > > > Actually, the platform for which people actually *pay* to buy apps on > should be the focus . . . and by this metric, everything I've ever seen > says android should be a mere afterthought. > > > -- > Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. > (702) 508-8462 > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Wed Aug 12 11:17:57 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 08:17:57 -0700 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55CB63A5.3040106@ahsoftware.net> On 08/12/2015 05:48 AM, Andrew Kluthe wrote: > An object-oriented framework for livecode now featuring GIT support? Does > anyone have any more information on this announcement I received? ? -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From prothero at earthednet.org Wed Aug 12 11:24:26 2015 From: prothero at earthednet.org (Earthednet-wp) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 08:24:26 -0700 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I would also find it very disappointing, after locking in 3 years of Indy license, to find that addon licenses were required to access some set of wonderful new livecode features. That said, I'm a single developer, so git isn't important to me. Also, if the purpose of the Indy license was to support single developers, working alone, would git be particularly attractive? Just asking. Bill William Prothero http://es.earthednet.org > On Aug 12, 2015, at 8:02 AM, Peter Haworth wrote: > > I got an email from Kevin about it yesterday. > > On Wed, Aug 12, 2015, 7:52 AM Brahmanathaswami, Sannyasin > wrote: > >>> On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 2:48 AM, Andrew Kluthe wrote: >>> >>> I think git support without >>> having to fiddle around too much would be pretty important to an open >>> source community. >> >> >> Where did this announcement appear? I haven't seen it in my email and it's >> not in my spam. >> >> I have to agree. I have paid (and paid and paid) RunRev from the very day >> (even before Kevin went "live" with the new company and was still >> transitioning from Scott's admin) for every offer to help with their cash >> flow into the future by buying into what is now an "indy" license for X >> number of years into the future. (I think I am up to 2021 now.) putting a >> lot of faith in this company, and convincing stakeholders, who hold the >> purse strings, that we can trust and depend on Kevin and his team going >> into the future... >> >> and now, to be told that to have a collaborative environment... we have to >> pay again.. this is >> >> a) very disappointing >> b) IMHO very bad strategy: while I appreciate and respect HQ's need for a >> revenue stream (as witnessed by my commitment to ever single long term >> offer the company ever made, including open source.) I don't think this a >> good strategy for the future of the product/language. All the other big >> guns, Node, Ruby, Javascript, PHP... you can just open a GIT account and go >> to work... but here we sit working on a stack pondering how we can share >> this with a colleague... I was just thinking about this the other day and >> wondering if we need resurrect "Magic Carpet" and us some kind or RCS for >> stack development collaboration. It would work, but still rather primitive >> in terms of being able to fork, regression options etc. Kevin stated on >> video in Southern California that he wanted LiveCode to be one of the 10 >> most popular used languages in the field. Locking collaboration behind a >> paywall is certainly going to kill that goal for sure. >> >> I suggest a different model for an additional revenue stream, one that is >> used by a fellow UK engineering team (Chris Graham) that runs the very >> successful OC Portal php CMS: Sell credit hours for support. e.g. you >> charge $25.00 per hour for support. I buy 10 hours.. pay LC $250.00. Check >> out OC Portal support model... best we have ever seen for a software >> product. If I need help HQ helps me until my hours run out. In Chris's case >> (high integrity factor there) if it is a bug in the software, he will not >> dock your credit hours. If your request is a "feature" request.. and it >> take him 20 hours to get it done... he does not bill you for the extra >> ten... why? Because he figures that the dialogue with his client about the >> new feature was a win-win since now OC Portal has a cool new widget/feature >> that enhances the product for everyone else and future prospects. His paid >> support clients are helping him build and build and build the product. >> >> Where is the announcement? >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From lfredricks at proactive-intl.com Wed Aug 12 11:33:56 2015 From: lfredricks at proactive-intl.com (Lynn Fredricks) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 08:33:56 -0700 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6D289659C63D4FB087F9F3DCFAD44B48@GATEWAY> > That said, I'm a single developer, so git isn't > important to me. Also, if the purpose of the Indy license was > to support single developers, working alone, would git be > particularly attractive? Just asking. > Bill That makes sense to me, Bill. I cannot comment specifically on the Business Application Framework, but if we are talking specifically about team features, aren't team features contrary to the idea of an "indie" license - which to me, suggests working on your own projects as an "indie" developer. Best regards, Lynn Fredricks President Paradigma Software http://www.paradigmasoft.com Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server From skip at magicgate.com Wed Aug 12 11:47:12 2015 From: skip at magicgate.com (Magicgate Software - Skip Kimpel) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 11:47:12 -0400 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: <6D289659C63D4FB087F9F3DCFAD44B48@GATEWAY> References: <6D289659C63D4FB087F9F3DCFAD44B48@GATEWAY> Message-ID: Here is the email arriving from Kevin yesterday... Subject: Something Big ---- I want to improve your business, your cash flow, and your development work. To do this, we launched a new Business Application Framework. This framework brings object-oriented programming to LiveCode, is compatible with GIT and other version management systems, and allows you to do your LiveCoding work in teams. Go ahead, do a happy dance. We're also introducing the new Business License with bolt-on features. Business License bolt-ons include Guaranteed 2 Business Day Email Support, Business Application Framework, Data Synchronization Framework, Priority Bug Fix, Phone Skype Hotline Access, and PDF Viewer. When you purchase a new Business License, you receive credits with which you can purchase Business bolt-ons. *If you purchase the Business License now, you will receive 20 bolt-on tokens (Most major bolt-ons will start at 10 tokens. However, some bolt-ons may be available for as little as one token). This offer will not last forever and when it ends, each Business License will only come with 10 bolt-on tokens. You can, of course, purchase additional tokens at any time.* For an additional cost, you can access exclusive rights to our Services, including Hack Days, Priority Feature Add, Code Reviews, and Code Documentation Services, to name a few. *You can read more about the new Business License and purchase it with 20 tokens here:* https://livecode.com/products/livecode-platform/livecode-for-business/ Our goal with our new business features and benefits is to empower you to leverage the productivity and ease-of-use advantages that you enjoy with LiveCode across much larger projects. As a provider of an amazing tool, we want to become your trusted partner and be there to ensure your entire app development experience is a huge success. I look forward to working together. Kind Regards, Kevin Miller PS - Of course, if you have an existing business license, you can continue to the end of your current term before moving to the new Business License. If you wish, you may upgrade to the new Business License immediately for the difference in price and receive the new benefits before the end of your current term. It's up to you! Any further questions regarding business license transitions can be sent to: business at livecode.com. On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 11:33 AM, Lynn Fredricks < lfredricks at proactive-intl.com> wrote: > > That said, I'm a single developer, so git isn't > > important to me. Also, if the purpose of the Indy license was > > to support single developers, working alone, would git be > > particularly attractive? Just asking. > > Bill > > That makes sense to me, Bill. > > I cannot comment specifically on the Business Application Framework, but if > we are talking specifically about team features, aren't team features > contrary to the idea of an "indie" license - which to me, suggests working > on your own projects as an "indie" developer. > > Best regards, > > Lynn Fredricks > President > Paradigma Software > http://www.paradigmasoft.com > > Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Aug 12 12:02:20 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 19:02:20 +0300 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: References: <6D289659C63D4FB087F9F3DCFAD44B48@GATEWAY> Message-ID: <55CB6E0C.4030503@gmail.com> On 12/08/15 18:47, Magicgate Software - Skip Kimpel wrote: > Here is the email arriving from Kevin yesterday... Subject: Something Big This is capable of a number of interpretations. > > ---- > I want to improve your business, your cash flow, and your development work. I want to improve *my* business and *my* cash flow. > > To do this, we launched a new Business Application Framework. This > framework brings object-oriented programming to LiveCode, is compatible > with GIT and other version management systems, and allows you to do your > LiveCoding work in teams. Go ahead, do a happy dance. Well, I'll do a *happy dance* if this finally cracks the difficulty my firm (RunRev) is going through at the moment. > > We're also introducing the new Business License with bolt-on features. > > Business License bolt-ons include Guaranteed 2 Business Day Email > Support, Business Application Framework, Data Synchronization > Framework, Priority Bug Fix, Phone Skype Hotline Access, and PDF Viewer. > > When you purchase a new Business License, you receive credits with which > you can purchase Business bolt-ons. > > *If you purchase the Business License now, you will receive 20 bolt-on > tokens (Most major bolt-ons will start at 10 tokens. However, some bolt-ons > may be available for as little as one token). This offer will not last > forever and when it ends, each Business License will only come with 10 > bolt-on tokens. You can, of course, purchase additional tokens at any time.* > > For an additional cost, you can access exclusive rights to our Services, > including Hack Days, Priority Feature Add, Code Reviews, and Code > Documentation Services, to name a few. > > *You can read more about the new Business License and purchase it with 20 > tokens here:* > > https://livecode.com/products/livecode-platform/livecode-for-business/ > > > Our goal with our new business features and benefits is to empower you to > leverage the productivity and ease-of-use advantages that you enjoy with > LiveCode across much larger projects. As a provider of an amazing tool, we > want to become your trusted partner and be there to ensure your entire app > development experience is a huge success. > > I look forward to working together. > > Kind Regards, > > Kevin Miller > > PS - Of course, if you have an existing business license, you can continue > to the end of your current term before moving to the new Business License. > If you wish, you may upgrade to the new Business License immediately for > the difference in price and receive the new benefits before the end of your > current term. It's up to you! Any further questions regarding business > license transitions can be sent to: business at livecode.com. > > Now we might also wonder if RunRev are going to shift their attention to the BAF what is going to happen to some of the uncompleted stretch goals from the Open Source thing, the HTML5 project and general bug ironing out on the core product (LiveCode). Why have I got the impression, over about 15 years, that Runtime Revolution looks like a teenage kid with ADS. Every day a new idea, none of which really reach fruition. After a while with a person like this one would start to wonder about their reliability to finish anything at all. I do think that a large number of people who donated towards the 2 fundraisers are going to ask the questions they have asked previously, but rather louder. I would never suggest that RunRev should start trying to work without any income, but I wonder if this is the best way to do things. While it may attract business people it may also serve to alienate a lot of people who RunRev, one way or another, depend upon. Richmond. From dochawk at gmail.com Wed Aug 12 12:37:39 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 09:37:39 -0700 Subject: [YO EDINBURGH!] Microsoft Open-Sources It's Toolkit For Making iOS Apps Run On Win 10 In-Reply-To: References: <23EE8F88-37C6-4ACB-959F-91F84A64918B@sweattechnologies.com> <55C83510.5080903@fourthworld.com> <7EE8E5DF-3754-45AD-A0D4-7AA66A66839A@sweattechnologies.com> <77CF2C90-FC30-4C03-BDCB-5E883FAD44F0@sahores-conseil.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 7:58 AM, Roger Eller wrote: > If your sources are from a newsfeed on an apple device, I am not surprised > at what thoughts you are allowed to have. > Huh??? I can't eve being to figure out where the is coming from. Does apple even have a newsfeed app??? I'm not a mac person, I'm a unix person. Mac is simply the most convenient unix box supplier at the moment (OK, living without spotlit would be hard, which is why OS X got left on the first of the newer ones I bought). I'm currently only tinkering with a game; my real product is a desktop app. And until I find a way to actually put advertising on it (the one built into live code apparently wants a large installed base before they will talk to you), the mobile game won't get noticeable time. I have no obligations to iOS, android, mac, or google, nor the users of any of these. This is purely a commercial issue. I even support a windows version of my application; I've never owned an actual windows machine (OK, it's been stashed on a back partition a few times), but their money spends as well as mac users. For that matter, I'll ship it as a linux if someone is willing to pay for it. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From dochawk at gmail.com Wed Aug 12 12:41:07 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 09:41:07 -0700 Subject: [YO EDINBURGH!] Microsoft Open-Sources It's Toolkit For Making iOS Apps Run On Win 10 In-Reply-To: References: <23EE8F88-37C6-4ACB-959F-91F84A64918B@sweattechnologies.com> <55C83510.5080903@fourthworld.com> <7EE8E5DF-3754-45AD-A0D4-7AA66A66839A@sweattechnologies.com> <77CF2C90-FC30-4C03-BDCB-5E883FAD44F0@sahores-conseil.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 8:17 AM, Roger Eller wrote: > Read this; it didn't come from Apple though. $22B iOS -vs- $19B Android. > > http://readwrite.com/2014/07/03/ios-developer-android-developer-earnings-gap > Yeah, articles like that. The initial caption about how much easier it is for a developer to make money on iOS, and then when it gets to revenue app, gives a figure of 5x per month per app for iOS . . . -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Aug 12 13:01:19 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 12:01:19 -0500 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: <55CB6E0C.4030503@gmail.com> References: <6D289659C63D4FB087F9F3DCFAD44B48@GATEWAY> <55CB6E0C.4030503@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55CB7BDF.6040509@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/12/2015 11:02 AM, Richmond wrote: > Why have I got the impression, over about 15 years, that Runtime > Revolution looks like a teenage kid with > ADS. Every day a new idea, none of which really reach fruition. After a > while with a person like this one would > start to wonder about their reliability to finish anything at all. First, they are no longer "Runtime Revolution" or "RunRev", they are "LiveCode" and have legally changed the company name. Second, your comment is inaccurate and unfair. The last Kickstarter promised HTML5 which is now well underway. Internally there is already an early working version. The first Kickstarter promised to restructure the engine, a massive undertaking, and that has been completed. So both KS campaigns have been honored. Bringing full unicode support was promised and it, too, was a huge effort that took a year or more to finish. That has been fullfilled and has made life far easier for us all. Another promise addressed increased flexibility via widgets and all the benefits they will provide. You have already seen the progress they've made and work continues. Some widgets have already been created by both LC and users. When completed, widgets will give us, among other things, native appearance and behavior on mobile devices. There are unlimited other applications. Regarding the bug database, it was overhauled some years ago and bugs are now addressed almost immediately. They are fixed according to criteria I have mentioned before. If you are referring to ancient, unaddressed bugs, LC requested that users go through those and close any that are no longer relevant. If you haven't done that, you should. They have apparently begun the lengthy process of reviewing the reports from 5 or 10 years ago, since I do see some of those referenced occasionally in the QCC. Can you name other promises they have left unfullfilled? I wonder if you are mistaking "unreliable" progress with "not instantaous" progress. The amount of work required to complete some of these promises takes a great deal of time. And, of course, they need to keep the lights on while it all happens. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From kevin at livecode.com Wed Aug 12 13:01:46 2015 From: kevin at livecode.com (Kevin Miller) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 18:01:46 +0100 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Brahmanathaswami, Thank you for all your support, we really appreciate it. Let me clarify a few things here. The Business Application Framework is a framework for writing more serious applications in LiveCode. It is far more than simply adding ?GitHub" to LiveCode. It brings in advanced concepts such as object-orientation, a model-view controller architecture and hooks into data sync and other heavyweight features. It is not for everyone. If you are an individual building an application then you might want to evaluate whether its worth the extra effort, level of complexity and abstractions associated with using it. If you want VCS in the Open Source Community or Indy edition, there is already lcVCS out there, together with various other solutions we?ve seen people using. I would also remind you that LiveCode is Open Source (one of the biggest goals of the KS campaign, delivered a month after). What this means is that if you want you can build whatever features you like for it and make them available. If you need features along these lines then you can add them yourself. If you want features for free then you can make them, or look to see if they are part of our extensive crowd-funded road map and thus either being provided or coming shortly. If you want us to provide things outside of that then yes, it costs money for us to make them. The Business License also comes with things like the ability to build closed source applications for larger organizations and priority tech support. If you are building a serious application in a team then you?re probably receiving considerable value from LiveCode. Options like this framework, together with things like the technical support options, might be a big help in getting additional value and productivity advantages from the platform. As far as your point about having a subscription into the future with Indy, we are still delivering that. Nothing has changed. These business features are brand new. They have not been mentioned in Kickstarter, in the HTML5 campaign or indeed in any other public announcement that I?m aware of. We?ve advertised a road map against these campaigns and are a good way through on delivering the largest, most extensive, most capable versions of LiveCode you?ve ever seen. You?re getting value from that road map with LiveCode today, last year, next year and you?ve paid a fair sum for that value. I don?t see what the problem is here. We do need to provide solutions for different markets. In a model where the vast majority of customers are using Open Source, we need to be providing good value to our higher end customers in order to be viable and thrive. That lets us continue to develop and support the platform proactively for everyone - including the Open Source users, the Indy users like yourself and the bigger business users who need these new features. It is even possible that some of these new business oriented features will filter down into Open Source at some point in the future. But for now, they are aimed carefully at the needs of our more serious business customers. Kind regards, Kevin Kevin Miller ~ kevin at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps On 12/08/2015 15:52, "Brahmanathaswami, Sannyasin" wrote: >Where did this announcement appear? I haven't seen it in my email and it's >not in my spam. > >I have to agree. From dixonja at hotmail.co.uk Wed Aug 12 13:09:58 2015 From: dixonja at hotmail.co.uk (John Dixon) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 18:09:58 +0100 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: <55CB7BDF.6040509@hyperactivesw.com> References: <6D289659C63D4FB087F9F3DCFAD44B48@GATEWAY> , <55CB6E0C.4030503@gmail.com>, <55CB7BDF.6040509@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: > Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 12:01:19 -0500 > From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com > To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Subject: Re: Business Application Framework > > Can you name other promises they have left unfullfilled? physics engine... From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Wed Aug 12 13:26:27 2015 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 13:26:27 -0400 Subject: [YO EDINBURGH!] Microsoft Open-Sources It's Toolkit For Making iOS Apps Run On Win 10 In-Reply-To: References: <23EE8F88-37C6-4ACB-959F-91F84A64918B@sweattechnologies.com> <55C83510.5080903@fourthworld.com> <7EE8E5DF-3754-45AD-A0D4-7AA66A66839A@sweattechnologies.com> <77CF2C90-FC30-4C03-BDCB-5E883FAD44F0@sahores-conseil.com> Message-ID: They're also showing that the market trends are in Androids favor as even free (ad sponsored apps) will get downloaded millions of times on android devices. Sure, if your apps are filling a niche big enough that a few thousand will buy it, you're in good shape. But if an app is rather average, a few million pennies are also good. That $19B in Android revenue could easily pass the $22B iOS if volume of devices sold continues this trend. So, volume of devices sold CAN reflect your profitability if you use ad frameworks at least partially. Some will pay for an ad-free upgrade. So, I don't discount the Android market as being a mere afterthought. In fact, I personally have only purchased apps for Android, or desktop. Maybe there was just 1 for iOS a couple years ago. On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 12:41 PM, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 8:17 AM, Roger Eller > wrote: > > > Read this; it didn't come from Apple though. $22B iOS -vs- $19B Android. > > > > > http://readwrite.com/2014/07/03/ios-developer-android-developer-earnings-gap > > > > Yeah, articles like that. The initial caption about how much easier it is > for a developer to make money on iOS, and then when it gets to revenue app, > gives a figure of 5x per month per app for iOS . . . > > > -- > Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. > (702) 508-8462 > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From brahma at hindu.org Wed Aug 12 13:45:24 2015 From: brahma at hindu.org (Brahmanathaswami) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 07:45:24 -1000 Subject: Set Variable or CustomProperty Names with and expression In-Reply-To: <14f22306bf8-1189-4bbfd@webprd-a24.mail.aol.com> References: <55CACEE3.5040407@hindu.org> <14f22306bf8-1189-4bbfd@webprd-a24.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: <55CB8634.2030007@hindu.org> Neither of these worked... I took the cue from Mark and tried arrays this was incredibly simple... almost. In the end I was unable to figure out how to pass a variable string as a name of a custom property. My head was hurting, so instead of breaking it on further attempts to find the algorithm for this... I "man handled it" in the end with my usual verbose "baby xTalk" command getAndDistributeCategories set the defaultstack to "Gurudeva" put url ("file:/" & localpath()& "data/gurudeva-quotes.txt") into gAllQuotes set the uAllQuotes of stack "Gurudeva" to gAllQuotes # line/pipe delimited put the uCategories of this stack into tCategories # tab delimited set the linedelimiter to "|" set the itemdelimiter to tab repeat for each line x in gAllQuotes repeat for each item y in tCategories put "t" & y & "Set" into tAggregatedSet if (item 6 of x contains y) then put x & "|" after aQuoteSets[y] end repeat end repeat # get some stats repeat for each item y in tCategories put y & " quotes: " & the number of lines of aQuoteSets[y] & cr after tCountCheck end repeat put tCountCheck into url ("file:/"& localpath() & "data/quote-spread-stats.txt") ## LOAD PROPS - which is the target goal of this handler ## # I "give up" on a more efficient method.. this works but # has the downside of being hard-wired... so if we change the category names # we have to manually massage this code... there must be a better way: # you cannot do anything like # set the ("u" & y & "Set") of this stack... the compiler complains this is illegal set the uKarmaQuotes of this stack to aQuoteSets["Karma"] set the uHinduismQuotes of this stack to aQuoteSets["Hinduism"] set the uSivaQuotes of this stack to aQuoteSets["Siva"] set the uWisdomQuotes of this stack to aQuoteSets["Wisdom"] set the uLifeQuotes of this stack to aQuoteSets["Life"] set the uGuruQuotes of this stack to aQuoteSets["Guru"] set the uSelfQuotes of this stack to aQuoteSets["Self"] set the uGodsQuotes of this stack to aQuoteSets["Gods"] set the uHumorQuotes of this stack to aQuoteSets["Humor"] set the uMeditationQuotes of this stack to aQuoteSets["Meditation"] set the uSadhanaQuotes of this stack to aQuoteSets["Sadhana"] set the uWorshipQuotes of this stack to aQuoteSets["Worship"] end getAndDistributeCategories So this is the same issue: setting variable name or CustomProp name with an expression. Swasti Astu, Be Well! Brahmanathaswami Kauai's Hindu Monastery www.HimalayanAcademy.com dunbarx at aol.com wrote: > repeat for each item y in tCategories > do "if item 6 of"&& x&& "contains"&& y&& "then put"&& x&& "&"&& cr& "| after"&& t& y& "set" > end repeat > > > or: > > > repeat for each item y in tCategories > get ("t"& y& "set") > if item 6 of x contains y then put x& cr& "|" after it > end repeat From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Wed Aug 12 13:46:10 2015 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 13:46:10 -0400 Subject: [YO EDINBURGH!] Microsoft Open-Sources It's Toolkit For Making iOS Apps Run On Win 10 In-Reply-To: <55C8C720.6000606@fourthworld.com> References: <55C8C720.6000606@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Thank you for that info, Richard. Intents is definitely a step in the right direction. ~Roger On Mon, Aug 10, 2015 at 11:45 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > I would agree that the whole process does seem rather Apple-centric at > times, but did you see the Release Notes for 7.1dp1? The LC engine now > supports Android intents -- see the new mobileLaunchData function. > > This is also a good example of how different OS APIs can make a LiveCode > feature complicated when the team attempts to make it the same on all > platforms: iOS doesn't have intents, using Actions instead. Android > intents are relatively simple to code for and work very similarly to url > schemes, so it's been pretty straightforward for the team to add that. > They do indeed intend to also action Actions support for iOS, but like so > many Cocoa things it's not nearly as simple, and given the full range of > priorities on their plate won't be in v7.1. > > Complete feature parity sounds simple, but once you dive into the > implementation details it's clear that OSes just don't often work the same, > requiring tough decisions about what gets delivered now and what gets > delivered later. > > But at least those of us deploying to the 80% using Android finally have a > feature that isn't all about Apple. And a very useful one at that. > > And in the meantime, anyone in a position to add Actions support to the > engine sooner than the core team can is welcome to submit the pull request. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for Desktop, Mobile, and Web > ____________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From pete at lcsql.com Wed Aug 12 14:17:38 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 18:17:38 +0000 Subject: Set Variable or CustomProperty Names with and expression In-Reply-To: <55CB8634.2030007@hindu.org> References: <55CACEE3.5040407@hindu.org> <14f22306bf8-1189-4bbfd@webprd-a24.mail.aol.com> <55CB8634.2030007@hindu.org> Message-ID: Instead of setting individual cprops, you could store the whole array as a cprop - "set the uQuoteSets of this stack to aQuoteSets". When you want to use them, "put the uQuoteSets of this stack into aQuoteSets" By the way, I entered a QCC report about the ability to use expressions as custom property names a few months back. Mark Waddingham commented that it should be fairly easy to implement but it hasn't happened yet. On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 10:45 AM Brahmanathaswami wrote: > Neither of these worked... > > I took the cue from Mark and tried arrays > > this was incredibly simple... almost. > > In the end I was unable to figure out how to pass a variable string as a > name of a custom property. My head was hurting, so instead of breaking > it on further attempts to find the algorithm for this... I "man handled > it" in the end with my usual verbose "baby xTalk" > > command getAndDistributeCategories > set the defaultstack to "Gurudeva" > put url ("file:/" & localpath()& "data/gurudeva-quotes.txt") into > gAllQuotes > > set the uAllQuotes of stack "Gurudeva" to gAllQuotes # line/pipe > delimited > put the uCategories of this stack into tCategories # tab delimited > > > set the linedelimiter to "|" > set the itemdelimiter to tab > > repeat for each line x in gAllQuotes > > repeat for each item y in tCategories > put "t" & y & "Set" into tAggregatedSet > if (item 6 of x contains y) then put x & "|" after aQuoteSets[y] > end repeat > > end repeat > > # get some stats > > repeat for each item y in tCategories > put y & " quotes: " & the number of lines of aQuoteSets[y] & cr > after tCountCheck > end repeat > > put tCountCheck into url ("file:/"& localpath() & > "data/quote-spread-stats.txt") > > ## LOAD PROPS - which is the target goal of this handler ## > > # I "give up" on a more efficient method.. this works but > # has the downside of being hard-wired... so if we change the category > names > # we have to manually massage this code... there must be a better way: > # you cannot do anything like > # set the ("u" & y & "Set") of this stack... the compiler complains this > is illegal > > set the uKarmaQuotes of this stack to aQuoteSets["Karma"] > set the uHinduismQuotes of this stack to aQuoteSets["Hinduism"] > set the uSivaQuotes of this stack to aQuoteSets["Siva"] > set the uWisdomQuotes of this stack to aQuoteSets["Wisdom"] > set the uLifeQuotes of this stack to aQuoteSets["Life"] > set the uGuruQuotes of this stack to aQuoteSets["Guru"] > set the uSelfQuotes of this stack to aQuoteSets["Self"] > set the uGodsQuotes of this stack to aQuoteSets["Gods"] > set the uHumorQuotes of this stack to aQuoteSets["Humor"] > set the uMeditationQuotes of this stack to aQuoteSets["Meditation"] > set the uSadhanaQuotes of this stack to aQuoteSets["Sadhana"] > set the uWorshipQuotes of this stack to aQuoteSets["Worship"] > > end getAndDistributeCategories > > So this is the same issue: setting variable name or CustomProp name with > an expression. > > Swasti Astu, Be Well! > Brahmanathaswami > > Kauai's Hindu Monastery > www.HimalayanAcademy.com > > > > dunbarx at aol.com wrote: > > repeat for each item y in tCategories > > do "if item 6 of"&& x&& "contains"&& y&& "then put"&& > x&& "&"&& cr& "| after"&& t& y& "set" > > end repeat > > > > > > or: > > > > > > repeat for each item y in tCategories > > get ("t"& y& "set") > > if item 6 of x contains y then put x& cr& "|" after it > > end repeat > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Aug 12 14:26:25 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 11:26:25 -0700 Subject: Get Modification Date of a Single File In-Reply-To: <55CB581E.10400@hindu.org> References: <55CB581E.10400@hindu.org> Message-ID: <55CB8FD1.3060701@fourthworld.com> Brahmanathaswami wrote: > JB wrote: >> I don?t have a mobile but on the older versions >> for desktops you use Files command. >> >> The detailed files form returns a list of files, one file per line. >> Each line contains the following attributes, separated by commas: >> * The file's name, URL-encoded >> * The file's size in bytes (on Mac OS and OS X systems, the si > [snip] > > I'm very familiar with this, as in my in house production apps that > deal globally with work processes here on the LAN, these apps often > do folder/file scans that get needed info. > > But it just seemed like a lot of work to me, to get info on a single > file, to have to set the default folder, get the files, parse the > file list for just the one you are interested in.. It is, and not just for us scripters but also for the engine as well, with a long list of system calls needed for every file in a list, when all we want is just one. Almost always more work than is truly needed, and when the directory contains enough files it can be noticeably slow. But for now it's all we have, so we use it. And frankly, if you have enough files in a directly to make a noticeable difference in LiveCode, you'll find many other aspects of the system are slower as well. This is why collections with large numbers of files, like browser caches, separate them by hash values into subfolders. If you have a really large number of files and are currently storing them in a single directory, I can share some tips about using hash functions to put them into subfolders with roughly equal distribution for faster throughput. > ideally one could just send the path of a file to a function that > would return all this data for that one file. Yep: -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Aug 12 14:29:20 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 11:29:20 -0700 Subject: Release 6.7.7 RC 2 In-Reply-To: <55CB5AC2.8030603@gmail.com> References: <55CB5AC2.8030603@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55CB9080.5080008@fourthworld.com> Richmond wrote: > This probably an extremely stupid question, and I have asked something > very similar before: > > Now LiveCode 7 is at 7.1 what is the point of continuing to release 6.7 > upgrades? Like version 5.x, and 4.x, and all earlier versions, at some point we can expect 6.x to be EOL'd. The team has already made reference to another 6.x version, so we know it'll have at least several more weeks of maintenance. But we all recognize it take resources away from other development to maintain older versions, so it's in everyone's interest to be using v7 now, and if you find anything that prevents you from using v7 to file the bug report so it can be fixed ASAP. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Aug 12 14:34:23 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 13:34:23 -0500 Subject: Set Variable or CustomProperty Names with and expression In-Reply-To: <55CB8634.2030007@hindu.org> References: <55CACEE3.5040407@hindu.org> <14f22306bf8-1189-4bbfd@webprd-a24.mail.aol.com> <55CB8634.2030007@hindu.org> Message-ID: <55CB91AF.40101@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/12/2015 12:45 PM, Brahmanathaswami wrote: > In the end I was unable to figure out how to pass a variable string as a > name of a custom property. This is how the object inspector in the IDE does it: command revInspectorSetProperty pObject, pPropName, pValue lock messages set the pPropName of pObject to pValue unlock messages end revInspectorSetProperty function revInspectorGetProperty pObject, pPropName lock messages get the pPropName of pObject unlock messages return it end revInspectorGetProperty So it should work if you concatenate the property name and pass that to a handler like the above. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Aug 12 14:38:07 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 13:38:07 -0500 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: References: <6D289659C63D4FB087F9F3DCFAD44B48@GATEWAY> , <55CB6E0C.4030503@gmail.com>, <55CB7BDF.6040509@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <55CB928F.8080005@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/12/2015 12:09 PM, John Dixon wrote: > > >> Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 12:01:19 -0500 >> From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com >> To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Subject: Re: Business Application Framework > >> >> Can you name other promises they have left unfullfilled? > > physics engine... Oh yes. I believe that's still in the pipeline but I'm not sure of its progress. Hopefully someone on the team can respond. Good point. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From sundown at pacifier.com Wed Aug 12 14:44:25 2015 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 11:44:25 -0700 Subject: Get Modification Date of a Single File In-Reply-To: <55CB581E.10400@hindu.org> References: <55CAACAD.5020409@hindu.org> <573259A4-A8C6-498B-89C9-D66D0539796E@pacifier.com> <55CB581E.10400@hindu.org> Message-ID: On a mac using Xcode you would use the NFS File Manager which is a part of Foundation. Livecode has imported Foundation but I am not sure if you can acces things like that yet. John Balgenorth On Aug 12, 2015, at 7:28 AM, Brahmanathaswami wrote: > JB wrote: >> I don?t have a mobile but on the older versions >> for desktops you use Files command. >> >> The detailed files form returns a list of files, one file per line. Each line contains the following attributes, separated by commas: >> * The file's name, URL-encoded >> * The file's size in bytes (on Mac OS and OS X systems, the si > [snip] > > I'm very familiar with this, as in my in house production apps that deal globally with work processes here on the LAN, these apps often do folder/file scans that get needed info. > > But it just seemed like a lot of work to me, to get info on a single file, to have to set the default folder, get the files, parse the file list for just the one you are interested in.. > > ideally one could just send the path of a file to a function that would return all this data for that one file. > > Very useful tool on the server also. There are numerous use case for the a standard size/modification date check... hmm makes me think I could find a shell for this. > > Looks like a case for a widget... Or perhaps we need to hire Monte to build this function for us. > > BR > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From paul at researchware.com Wed Aug 12 14:52:53 2015 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 14:52:53 -0400 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: References: <6D289659C63D4FB087F9F3DCFAD44B48@GATEWAY> , <55CB6E0C.4030503@gmail.com>, <55CB7BDF.6040509@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <55CB9605.3030205@researchware.com> On 8/12/2015 1:09 PM, John Dixon wrote: >> Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 12:01:19 -0500 >> From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com >> To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Subject: Re: Business Application Framework >> >> Can you name other promises they have left unfullfilled? > physics engine... The "physics engine" is targeted to be added as widget(s) under LC8.x (i.e some version of LC8, perhaps not 8.0, but some version in the 8 series) as to implement a physics engine, widgets is a precursor to tap the applicable libraries. The LiveCode team has communicated this several times. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Aug 12 14:53:02 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 21:53:02 +0300 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: <55CB7BDF.6040509@hyperactivesw.com> References: <6D289659C63D4FB087F9F3DCFAD44B48@GATEWAY> <55CB6E0C.4030503@gmail.com> <55CB7BDF.6040509@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <55CB960E.3030505@gmail.com> On 12/08/15 20:01, J. Landman Gay wrote: > On 8/12/2015 11:02 AM, Richmond wrote: >> Why have I got the impression, over about 15 years, that Runtime >> Revolution looks like a teenage kid with >> ADS. Every day a new idea, none of which really reach fruition. After a >> while with a person like this one would >> start to wonder about their reliability to finish anything at all. > > First, they are no longer "Runtime Revolution" or "RunRev", they are > "LiveCode" and have legally changed the company name. > > Second, your comment is inaccurate and unfair. The last Kickstarter > promised HTML5 which is now well underway. Internally there is already > an early working version. The first Kickstarter promised to > restructure the engine, a massive undertaking, and that has been > completed. So both KS campaigns have been honored. > > Bringing full unicode support was promised and it, too, was a huge > effort that took a year or more to finish. That has been fullfilled > and has made life far easier for us all. > > Another promise addressed increased flexibility via widgets and all > the benefits they will provide. You have already seen the progress > they've made and work continues. Some widgets have already been > created by both LC and users. When completed, widgets will give us, > among other things, native appearance and behavior on mobile devices. > There are unlimited other applications. > > Regarding the bug database, it was overhauled some years ago and bugs > are now addressed almost immediately. They are fixed according to > criteria I have mentioned before. If you are referring to ancient, > unaddressed bugs, LC requested that users go through those and close > any that are no longer relevant. If you haven't done that, you should. > They have apparently begun the lengthy process of reviewing the > reports from 5 or 10 years ago, since I do see some of those > referenced occasionally in the QCC. > > Can you name other promises they have left unfullfilled? > > I wonder if you are mistaking "unreliable" progress with "not > instantaous" progress. The amount of work required to complete some of > these promises takes a great deal of time. And, of course, they need > to keep the lights on while it all happens. > Possibly. But I am sure I am not the only person who suffers from this "confusion" . . . I wonder why? From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Aug 12 15:05:13 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 14:05:13 -0500 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: <55CB960E.3030505@gmail.com> References: <6D289659C63D4FB087F9F3DCFAD44B48@GATEWAY> <55CB6E0C.4030503@gmail.com> <55CB7BDF.6040509@hyperactivesw.com> <55CB960E.3030505@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55CB98E9.9080904@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/12/2015 1:53 PM, Richmond wrote: > > But I am sure I am not the only person who suffers from this "confusion" > . . . I wonder why? Maybe you missed the roadmap: Now that I re-read it, the physics engine is in there too. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From andrew at ctech.me Wed Aug 12 15:06:05 2015 From: andrew at ctech.me (Andrew Kluthe) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 19:06:05 +0000 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: <6D289659C63D4FB087F9F3DCFAD44B48@GATEWAY> References: <6D289659C63D4FB087F9F3DCFAD44B48@GATEWAY> Message-ID: Version control, I would argue is still necessary even if its just a single person or anyone else working on collaborating on the open source tooling directed at the community of livecode developers. To be able to maintain development branches and refactor without needing to have 50 copies of stack files backed up and lying around. I can totally see the benefits to the business license, but I'm pretty shocked to that native GIT support and a proper MVC-style framework for livecode isn't part of Livecode Community. I think this is a big mistake on the part of the steward company of this software. I get the framework thing even, almost. But basic Version Control support? Wowsa. That's some third rate nickel and diming of your user base. All that stuff people were worried about happening a few weeks back in emails, and all the damage control that was done on part of the community leaders seems like it was justified after seeing this. I think it's funny that Kevin suggested people fork livecode/re-implement these things for the community if they want. Right on... they took peoples money to re-engineer their product. Now that you have something nice and shiny they can sell as a result of that, it doesn't really matter what goes into the open source version so long as it has the label "Open Source" applied to it for oos and ahs. In before Company Damage Control: I know the fanboys and company shills will disagree but this is the last straw for me. I know these people will say good riddance, but they are deluded by their own fetishism. Good luck list/livecode community, I'll see you later. It's a shame they couldn't learn anything from the node.js/io.js open governance debate. I was holding out for a bit to see what comes of it, but this just sours the whole thing for me. I'd pay a lot towards licensing for support and fringe features that I need, but version control is hardly a fringe feature. They messed up with this, big time. On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 10:34 AM Lynn Fredricks < lfredricks at proactive-intl.com> wrote: > > That said, I'm a single developer, so git isn't > > important to me. Also, if the purpose of the Indy license was > > to support single developers, working alone, would git be > > particularly attractive? Just asking. > > Bill > > That makes sense to me, Bill. > > I cannot comment specifically on the Business Application Framework, but if > we are talking specifically about team features, aren't team features > contrary to the idea of an "indie" license - which to me, suggests working > on your own projects as an "indie" developer. > > Best regards, > > Lynn Fredricks > President > Paradigma Software > http://www.paradigmasoft.com > > Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Kind regards, Andrew Kluthe From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Aug 12 15:08:20 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 12:08:20 -0700 Subject: [YO EDINBURGH!] Microsoft Open-Sources It's Toolkit For Making iOS Apps Run On Win 10 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55CB99A4.2000407@fourthworld.com> Platform wars are best left for OS vendor marketing staff. Consumers don't care because they buy whatever fits their personal needs and desires. Developers don't care because most of the ones making any serious money are deploying to both. To put it into perspective, half of all iOS revenues go to only the top 100 developers, and the majority of those apps are available on both platforms. The top 1,000 developers consumer most of the app store revenue, with the other million+ dividing the rest for an income that ranges from below minimum wage to zero. Depending on which reports you read, somewhere between 15% and 30% of apps in the iOS app store have never been downloaded at all. In brief, hardly worth bickering about. Yes, there's money to be made in mobile, but it's not like having an identical app store entry out of more than a million is all it takes. Like all software products ever, it takes a good business plan well executed in product design and the robustness of its architecture, and clarity in communicating its benefits in an equally-well-executed marketing plan. Sure, some devs make single-platform-only apps. But it's not a majority, and getting smaller every year. From the most recent Vision Mobile survey on developer economics: 26% - Android AND iOS 28% - Android only 12% - iOS only It may seem crazy to see more than twice as many developers deploying to Android exclusively as to iOS. After all, we all know that iOS customers are a smaller but more desirable demographic in terms of spending patterns; indeed they freely give Apple the highest profit margins in the industry, and they spend as freely on apps as well. But think about it: with the current installed bases being roughly 80/20, iOS customers need to spend not merely more than an Android customer, but more than four times as much more before they become more profitable. And in the meantime, the scope of monetization options is much larger on mobile than those of us used to a desktop economy might be inclined to consider. Several years ago Rovio noted that they were making the same money giving Angry Birds away for free on Android as they were collecting per-download fees on iOS. Advertising is not a small thing, and the disparity in audience size has only grown since then. And then there's freemium options with in-app purchases, separate non-free versions without advertising that the ad-supported versions promote, and more. And best of all, all of that is supported on both platforms with LiveCode, so we don't need to leave half the money on the table by picking sides. Leave that to OS marketers, and just do what most profitable devs do: enjoy your cross-platform toolkit and make everyone very happy by being able to recommend your app to all their friends, regardless which OS they use. And when we step back to look at the bigger picture, for those of us using LiveCode prospects get even better: not only can we build for both mobile platforms, but also Mac, Windows, and even Linux, for a scope of coverage no mobile-only developer can hope to reach. We keep hearing about the so-called "post-PC era", but even today, many years after that phrase has been bandied about, we still see roughly half of all Internet usage coming from laptops and workstations. Apparently the hundreds of authors who keep writing articles about how no one uses their PCs any more didn't notice they were writing those words on their PCs. :) A mobile app can be useful. A mobile app that integrates with a desktop app multiplies its usefulness. I could go on about The Third Platform as a more profitable strategy than mobile-only, but like too many of my posts this one has already gotten too long. So let me close with this tip: read the Vision Mobile surveys, and if you can spare 5 minutes each quarter sign up to participate in them as well. If nothing else it's one more opportunity to write "LiveCode" into the "Other" box, but more importantly these surveys are some of the largest and use some of the better methodologies we see in our field. Here's the most recent Developer Economics report from Vision Mobile: -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Aug 12 15:33:53 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 12:33:53 -0700 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55CB9FA1.30607@fourthworld.com> Kevin Miller wrote: > If you want VCS in the Open Source Community or Indy edition, there > is already lcVCS out there Where? I can't find it in the only resource-sharing option provided in the IDE (currently "Sample Stacks", formerly "RevOnline"), nor at the LiveCode.org or .com sites (which are currently the same). -- Richard Gaskin LiveCode Community Manager richard at livecode.org From lyn.teyla at gmail.com Wed Aug 12 15:51:29 2015 From: lyn.teyla at gmail.com (Lyn Teyla) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 21:51:29 +0200 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5FD9E263-44CC-4842-91DA-05895B1A6F70@gmail.com> Hi all, I agree with many of the posters to this thread thus far that it would appear to be a mistake to offer, at this time, solely with the Business license, additional features such as built-in GIT compatibility, OOP and MVC. I would go one step further and suggest, if I may, that it might, perhaps ;), be a good idea to have feature parity across all licenses, with the sole exception being password protection (but only due to its obvious incompatibility with the GPL). Having feature parity would serve not only to reduce confusion, but also to allow the entire LiveCode community (paid + open source) to flourish more rapidly, which is one of the goals of LiveCode Ltd. These announced additional features are useful to many, not just Business licensees. Just the built-in GIT compatibility alone, for example, would bring about the following benefits: 1. The open source community would flourish, with both individuals and groups all over the world sharing their code on GitHub. People link to their GitHub pages from their websites. Many would come to know that LiveCode is such an easy yet powerful language. This is a free and potent marketing channel i.e. more $$$ for LiveCode Ltd. 2. GIT is not only useful for groups, but also individuals, including Indy licensees. GIT is utilized for version control, with users benefiting from the automatic documentation of code changes, which is valuable for a wide variety of projects. 3. The presence of public GitHub repositories allows LiveCode to project a more professional image to the coding community and decision makers at all levels, including single-member decision makers, attracting those who would not otherwise have considered LiveCode as a candidate for their projects. So again, more $$$ for LiveCode Ltd. 4. Developers who are familiar with other languages and GIT would find built-in GIT compatibility to be a plus, and the lack of one (and having to use a third-party tool for such) to be a minus. More developers = more $$$ for LiveCode Ltd. 5. GitHub pages are known to be an excellent way for developers to attract prospective employers. More employment opportunities = happier developers = happier employers = even more $$$ for LiveCode Ltd. With regard to object-orientation and MVC: 1. Whilst such concepts might sound imposing to some, it helps draw programmers who are already familiar with these concepts, and who expect to find them in any professional language offering. Here's an example: https://www.linkedin.com/grp/post/50811-5908638845246656513 2. As with built-in GIT compatibility, just having these features would help bolster LiveCode's image to just about everyone ? developers, the general public, and decision makers alike. 3. For users who think these features are unnecessary or too complicated, they could always choose not to use them, just as they don't use any other feature that they don't want, while users who need them can jump right in ? everyone's happy. With regard to bringing more value to the Business license: 1. There might not be a need to do that using "features" specifically. Since there are the the $500K + single-member restrictions for Indy licensees, those who get a Business license get it not because they want more features. They're making more money, are legally obliged to pay more, can afford to do so, and therefore do so. 2. I agree with Brahmanathaswami that a good way to differentiate the Business license is the inclusion of a higher level of support (which was indeed already mentioned in the announcement). Since Business licensees pay more, they're entitled to enhanced and priority service. Sounds reasonable. With the above in mind, in the following comparison chart: https://livecode.com/products/livecode-platform/pricing/ Feature parity would mean making the following items available to all licenses (green ticks across all columns): - Business App Framework (which could be renamed as appropriate) - Cloud & Data Sync - PDF Viewer - Mobile camera support All other Business-only items (enhanced support and services) would remain untouched. I believe the increase in the number of coders using LiveCode as a result of implementing feature parity would result in benefits to LiveCode's bottomline that far outweigh anything (if any) that would be gained by offering certain features only to Business licensees. This is because doing the latter would possibly serve mainly to alienate the open source community (no expected features like GIT, OOP and MVC) as well as Indy licensees (ditto, plus the recent increase in price). At the same time, the coding landscape is rapidly changing, with Apple open-sourcing Swift, and Microsoft aggressively laying cross-platform bridges, and with all native features included. Everything that I have suggested here is intended to be viewed as an attempt to ensure the continued prosperity of LiveCode Ltd. I hope LiveCode Ltd can take into consideration these items as well as any additional feedback provided by posters to this topic. With warm regards, Lyn :) From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Wed Aug 12 15:53:57 2015 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe | M-R-D) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 21:53:57 +0200 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: <55CB9FA1.30607@fourthworld.com> References: <55CB9FA1.30607@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <2BFBCFB7-45E1-4113-9B97-21487C99A53C@m-r-d.de> > Am 12.08.2015 um 21:33 schrieb Richard Gaskin : > > Kevin Miller wrote: > > > If you want VCS in the Open Source Community or Indy edition, there > > is already lcVCS out there > > Where? > The only lcVCS i am aware of is the free lcVCS plugin from Monte. You can download it at his site at http://www.mergext.com. But you have to register first. Matthias > I can't find it in the only resource-sharing option provided in the IDE (currently "Sample Stacks", formerly "RevOnline"), nor at the LiveCode.org or .com sites (which are currently the same). > > -- > Richard Gaskin > LiveCode Community Manager > richard at livecode.org > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From brahma at hindu.org Wed Aug 12 16:08:44 2015 From: brahma at hindu.org (Brahmanathaswami) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 10:08:44 -1000 Subject: Set Variable or CustomProperty Names with and expression In-Reply-To: References: <55CACEE3.5040407@hindu.org> <14f22306bf8-1189-4bbfd@webprd-a24.mail.aol.com> <55CB8634.2030007@hindu.org> Message-ID: <55CBA7CC.2090006@hindu.org> Peter Haworth wrote: > Instead of setting individual cprops, you could store the whole array as a > cprop - "set the uQuoteSets of this stack to aQuoteSets". When you want to > use them, "put the uQuoteSets of this stack into aQuoteSets" "duh" of course... "if you make and array, just use it" i will change that right now > > By the way, I entered a QCC report about the ability to use expressions as > custom property names a few months back. Mark Waddingham commented that it > should be fairly easy to implement but it hasn't happened yet. Jacqueline says at least we can use a variable to name a cProp the IDE is already pass a value like this command revInspectorSetProperty pObject, pPropName, pValue lock messages set the pPropName of pObject to pValue unlock messages end revInspectorSetProperty But, I like your method.. just store the array! BR From bonnmike at gmail.com Wed Aug 12 16:16:31 2015 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 14:16:31 -0600 Subject: Set Variable or CustomProperty Names with and expression In-Reply-To: <55CBA7CC.2090006@hindu.org> References: <55CACEE3.5040407@hindu.org> <14f22306bf8-1189-4bbfd@webprd-a24.mail.aol.com> <55CB8634.2030007@hindu.org> <55CBA7CC.2090006@hindu.org> Message-ID: You can use a custompropertyset using array notation too. set the myproperty["uName"] of button 1 to "Fred is dead" set the myproperty["uBirthday"] of button 1 to "Hatched not born" Then you can: put the myproperty["uName"] of button 1 and it'll say "fred is dead" In this way you don't have to schlep the whole array in and out all the time, while still having the advantages of using array notation. On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 2:08 PM, Brahmanathaswami wrote: > Peter Haworth wrote: > >> Instead of setting individual cprops, you could store the whole array as a >> cprop - "set the uQuoteSets of this stack to aQuoteSets". When you want >> to >> use them, "put the uQuoteSets of this stack into aQuoteSets" >> > > "duh" of course... "if you make and array, just use it" > > i will change that right now > > >> By the way, I entered a QCC report about the ability to use expressions as >> custom property names a few months back. Mark Waddingham commented that it >> should be fairly easy to implement but it hasn't happened yet. >> > > Jacqueline says at least we can use a variable to name a cProp > > the IDE is already pass a value like this > > command revInspectorSetProperty pObject, pPropName, pValue > lock messages > set the pPropName of pObject to pValue > unlock messages > end revInspectorSetProperty > > But, I like your method.. just store the array! > > BR > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Aug 12 16:15:58 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 23:15:58 +0300 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: <55CB9FA1.30607@fourthworld.com> References: <55CB9FA1.30607@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <55CBA97E.5060106@gmail.com> Kevin Miller wrote: "The Business Application Framework is a framework for writing more serious applications in LiveCode." Am I the only one who feels a wee bit insulted? OK, OK, I know that I am a very small frog in the relatively large LiveCode pond . . . but I consider my /Devawriter /serious, even if nobody else does. Is this statement to be taken to imply that only applications built for business are to be taken seriously? Now a very large number of people who contribute [Hey, there's a word which might well be shouted around a bit; 'contribute' along with 'community'] to the Use-List and the Forums are involved in far more serious programming exercises than I am, if by 'serious' we mean programs that go in for really 'heavy lifting' - I wonder? "If you want features for free then you can make them, or look to see if they are part of our extensive crowd-funded road map and thus either being provided or coming shortly. If you want us to provide things outside of that then yes, it costs money for us to make them." Well, I am sure "it costs money for us to make them", but then, I don't live in Britain any longer and am out of the loop where everybody talks to everybody as if they are blithering idiots (saw a load more of this in England 2 weeks ago: hence this being written on the back of a jar of peanut butter: "May contain nuts"). Now how are we simple folk to tell what are 'features' (i.e stuff that is to be "bolted on"), and what are just standard parts of LiveCode? As far as I understood all the hype surrounding the Open Source drive for the Kickstarter the whole idea was that we would put money into a pot, and then both that and any subsequent contributions, whether money, code snippets, or 'features' we authored would be rolled into LiveCode for the common good of 'the community'. "coming shortly" . . . um, Ms Gay . . . so NOT all of the items on the road map are ready yet; no need to look at the roadmap - Kevin has told us. "Options like this framework, together with things like the technical support options, might be a big help in getting additional value and productivity advantages from the platform." "additional value" and "productivity advantages" are just ad-man-speak: we can all walk the walk and talk the talk if we need to, but those phrases are ethereal and almost semantically empty. What the heck is a "productivity advantage" when it is at home? Do you mean things will move more quickly, be easier to program??? Well, if so, say so. "might": first rule of reading stuff: never trust a modal verb. "for now, they are aimed carefully at the needs of our more serious business customers." Aha . . . so, presumably, LiveCode (the company formerly known as RunRev) held an open, and above board consultation session that was properly documented with its/their "more serious" business customers??? Where does that leave the other business customers? The ones that, by implication, LiveCode considers foolish and lacking in the level of seriousness to warrant consultation. VCS has already been pointed out by Richard Gaskin . . . "out there" . . . why do I feel that somebody somewhere is being played for a fool? That fool is not me; I'm already the unofficial LiveCode court jester, and I am doing my "happy dance" here with my stick with a pig's bladder on the end of it. Oh, and I real wonder how "serious business customers" are going to seriously consider a message that uses such an infantile phrase as a "happy dance" in it? ------------------------ However, I do realise that there are several things quite seriously wrong with me: 1. Every time condescending, arrogant puff comes out of the mothership I am incapable of keeping my mouth shut. 2. I am, as Andrew Kluth mentioned just now, a "fanboy" insofar as I think LiveCode is just about the best programming/coding IDE/RAD? whateveryoucallit there is, and it is a fantastic tool to introduce programming to children. 3. I don't have 25 million pounds so I can buy out LiveCode and boss them around instead. 4. I think LiveCode have seriously [hey, there's that word again] lost the plot in several important ways. Richmond. From sundown at pacifier.com Wed Aug 12 16:21:56 2015 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 13:21:56 -0700 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: <2BFBCFB7-45E1-4113-9B97-21487C99A53C@m-r-d.de> References: <55CB9FA1.30607@fourthworld.com> <2BFBCFB7-45E1-4113-9B97-21487C99A53C@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <3799A8B4-6FBD-4F4C-B0F5-E2B5452659AA@pacifier.com> I don?t completely understand the Business Aoolication Framework. I am talking about the business license version being able to use different versions such as the open source version. Does the open source version have code that people shave contributed to improving that is not part of the paid versions and if you have a business licennse you can use those features and make your code closed source while other are required to provide code fpr their programs developed with open source. If that is the case it seems like you are cheating the open source community by allowing others to use it in ways those who developed it are not allied to use it. If that is the case it would seem to me those using a business license should be held to the same rules open source users are held to with any parts of the code that uses open source versions. John Balgenorth ; From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Aug 12 16:24:16 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 23:24:16 +0300 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: <5FD9E263-44CC-4842-91DA-05895B1A6F70@gmail.com> References: <5FD9E263-44CC-4842-91DA-05895B1A6F70@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55CBAB70.6080200@gmail.com> On 12/08/15 22:51, Lyn Teyla wrote: > Hi all, > > I agree with many of the posters to this thread thus far that it would appear to be a mistake to offer, at this time, solely with the Business license, additional features such as built-in GIT compatibility, OOP and MVC. > > I would go one step further and suggest, if I may, that it might, perhaps ;), be a good idea to have feature parity across all licenses, with the sole exception being password protection (but only due to its obvious incompatibility with the GPL). This is what everybody expected when the Open Source version of LiveCode was released. > > Having feature parity would serve not only to reduce confusion, but also to allow the entire LiveCode community (paid + open source) to flourish more rapidly, which is one of the goals of LiveCode Ltd. These announced additional features are useful to many, not just Business licensees. > > > Just the built-in GIT compatibility alone, for example, would bring about the following benefits: > > 1. The open source community would flourish, with both individuals and groups all over the world sharing their code on GitHub. People link to their GitHub pages from their websites. Many would come to know that LiveCode is such an easy yet powerful language. This is a free and potent marketing channel i.e. more $$$ for LiveCode Ltd. > > 2. GIT is not only useful for groups, but also individuals, including Indy licensees. GIT is utilized for version control, with users benefiting from the automatic documentation of code changes, which is valuable for a wide variety of projects. > > 3. The presence of public GitHub repositories allows LiveCode to project a more professional image to the coding community and decision makers at all levels, including single-member decision makers, attracting those who would not otherwise have considered LiveCode as a candidate for their projects. So again, more $$$ for LiveCode Ltd. > > 4. Developers who are familiar with other languages and GIT would find built-in GIT compatibility to be a plus, and the lack of one (and having to use a third-party tool for such) to be a minus. More developers = more $$$ for LiveCode Ltd. > > 5. GitHub pages are known to be an excellent way for developers to attract prospective employers. More employment opportunities = happier developers = happier employers = even more $$$ for LiveCode Ltd. > > > With regard to object-orientation and MVC: > > 1. Whilst such concepts might sound imposing to some, it helps draw programmers who are already familiar with these concepts, and who expect to find them in any professional language offering. Here's an example: > > https://www.linkedin.com/grp/post/50811-5908638845246656513 > > 2. As with built-in GIT compatibility, just having these features would help bolster LiveCode's image to just about everyone ? developers, the general public, and decision makers alike. > > 3. For users who think these features are unnecessary or too complicated, they could always choose not to use them, just as they don't use any other feature that they don't want, while users who need them can jump right in ? everyone's happy. > > > With regard to bringing more value to the Business license: > > 1. There might not be a need to do that using "features" specifically. Since there are the the $500K + single-member restrictions for Indy licensees, those who get a Business license get it not because they want more features. They're making more money, are legally obliged to pay more, can afford to do so, and therefore do so. > > 2. I agree with Brahmanathaswami that a good way to differentiate the Business license is the inclusion of a higher level of support (which was indeed already mentioned in the announcement). Since Business licensees pay more, they're entitled to enhanced and priority service. Sounds reasonable. > > > With the above in mind, in the following comparison chart: > > https://livecode.com/products/livecode-platform/pricing/ > > Feature parity would mean making the following items available to all licenses (green ticks across all columns): > > - Business App Framework (which could be renamed as appropriate) > - Cloud & Data Sync > - PDF Viewer > - Mobile camera support > > All other Business-only items (enhanced support and services) would remain untouched. > > > I believe the increase in the number of coders using LiveCode as a result of implementing feature parity would result in benefits to LiveCode's bottomline that far outweigh anything (if any) that would be gained by offering certain features only to Business licensees. > > This is because doing the latter would possibly serve mainly to alienate the open source community (no expected features like GIT, OOP and MVC) as well as Indy licensees (ditto, plus the recent increase in price). > > At the same time, the coding landscape is rapidly changing, with Apple open-sourcing Swift, and Microsoft aggressively laying cross-platform bridges, and with all native features included. > > Everything that I have suggested here is intended to be viewed as an attempt to ensure the continued prosperity of LiveCode Ltd. > > I hope LiveCode Ltd can take into consideration these items as well as any additional feedback provided by posters to this topic. > > With warm regards, > > Lyn :) > > > Richmond. From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Aug 12 16:31:29 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 13:31:29 -0700 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: <2BFBCFB7-45E1-4113-9B97-21487C99A53C@m-r-d.de> References: <2BFBCFB7-45E1-4113-9B97-21487C99A53C@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <55CBAD21.5090305@fourthworld.com> Matthias Rebbe wrote: >> Am 12.08.2015 um 21:33 schrieb Richard Gaskin: >> >> Kevin Miller wrote: >> > If you want VCS in the Open Source Community or Indy edition, there >> > is already lcVCS out there >> >> Where? > > The only lcVCS i am aware of is the free lcVCS plugin from Monte. You > can download it at his site at http://www.mergext.com. But you have > to register first. I didn't see it there, and using the site's Search box yielded 0 results for "lcvcs". Did I just miss it? Is there another option in the community that doesn't require email harvesting? -- Richard Gaskin LiveCode Community Manager richard at livecode.org From peter.brett at livecode.com Wed Aug 12 16:31:53 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 22:31:53 +0200 Subject: Release 6.7.7 RC 2 In-Reply-To: <55CB5AC2.8030603@gmail.com> References: <55CB5AC2.8030603@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 2015-08-12 16:40, Richmond wrote: > This probably an extremely stupid question, and I have asked something > very similar > before: > > Now LiveCode 7 is at 7.1 what is the point of continuing to release > 6.7 upgrades? We expect to start making LiveCode 6.7 releases less frequently from now on, with a view to ending support for LiveCode 6.7 in the coming months. Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Engine Development Team From prothero at earthednet.org Wed Aug 12 16:31:11 2015 From: prothero at earthednet.org (EED-wp Email) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 13:31:11 -0700 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: <55CBA97E.5060106@gmail.com> References: <55CB9FA1.30607@fourthworld.com> <55CBA97E.5060106@gmail.com> Message-ID: Harrumph! As an Indie license holder, I'm not "serious"? Hmm. Bad choice of words, probably. I'm glad Richmond is stimulating this discussion. Lots of other good comments in this thread. Bill William Prothero http://ed.earthednet.org > On Aug 12, 2015, at 1:15 PM, Richmond wrote: > > Kevin Miller wrote: > > "The Business Application Framework is a framework for writing more serious applications in LiveCode." > > Am I the only one who feels a wee bit insulted? > > OK, OK, I know that I am a very small frog in the relatively large LiveCode pond . . . but I consider my /Devawriter /serious, even if nobody else does. > > Is this statement to be taken to imply that only applications built for business are to be taken seriously? > > Now a very large number of people who contribute [Hey, there's a word which might well be shouted around a bit; 'contribute' along with > 'community'] to the Use-List and the Forums are involved in far more serious programming exercises than I am, if by > 'serious' we mean programs that go in for really 'heavy lifting' - I wonder? > > "If you want features for free then you can make them, or look to see if they are part of our extensive crowd-funded road map > and thus either being provided or coming shortly. If you want us to provide things outside of that then yes, > it costs money for us to make them." > > Well, I am sure "it costs money for us to make them", but then, I don't live in Britain any longer and am out of the loop where everybody talks to everybody as if they are blithering idiots (saw a load more of this in England 2 weeks ago: hence this being written on the back of > a jar of peanut butter: "May contain nuts"). > > Now how are we simple folk to tell what are 'features' (i.e stuff that is to be "bolted on"), and what are just standard parts of LiveCode? > > As far as I understood all the hype surrounding the Open Source drive for the Kickstarter the whole idea was that we would put money into a pot, > and then both that and any subsequent contributions, whether money, code snippets, or 'features' we authored would be rolled into > LiveCode for the common good of 'the community'. > > "coming shortly" . . . um, Ms Gay . . . so NOT all of the items on the road map are ready yet; no need to look at the roadmap - Kevin has told us. > > "Options like this framework, together with things like the technical support options, > might be a big help in getting additional value and productivity advantages from the platform." > > "additional value" and "productivity advantages" are just ad-man-speak: we can all walk the walk and talk the talk if we need to, but those phrases > are ethereal and almost semantically empty. What the heck is a "productivity advantage" when it is at home? Do you mean things will move more quickly, be easier to program??? Well, if so, say so. > > "might": first rule of reading stuff: never trust a modal verb. > > "for now, they are aimed carefully at the needs of our more serious business customers." > > Aha . . . so, presumably, LiveCode (the company formerly known as RunRev) held an open, and above board consultation session that was > properly documented with its/their "more serious" business customers??? > > Where does that leave the other business customers? The ones that, by implication, LiveCode considers foolish and lacking in the level > of seriousness to warrant consultation. > > VCS has already been pointed out by Richard Gaskin . . . > > "out there" . . . why do I feel that somebody somewhere is being played for a fool? > > That fool is not me; I'm already the unofficial LiveCode court jester, and I am doing my "happy dance" here with my stick with a pig's bladder > on the end of it. > > Oh, and I real wonder how "serious business customers" are going to seriously consider a message that uses such an infantile phrase > as a "happy dance" in it? > > ------------------------ > > However, I do realise that there are several things quite seriously wrong with me: > > 1. Every time condescending, arrogant puff comes out of the mothership I am incapable of keeping my mouth shut. > > 2. I am, as Andrew Kluth mentioned just now, a "fanboy" insofar as I think LiveCode is just about the best programming/coding IDE/RAD? whateveryoucallit there is, and it is a fantastic tool to introduce programming to children. > > 3. I don't have 25 million pounds so I can buy out LiveCode and boss them around instead. > > 4. I think LiveCode have seriously [hey, there's that word again] lost the plot in several important ways. > > Richmond. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at smarttsoftware.co.uk Wed Aug 12 16:35:07 2015 From: paul at smarttsoftware.co.uk (Paul Richards) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 20:35:07 +0000 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: <55CBAD21.5090305@fourthworld.com> References: <2BFBCFB7-45E1-4113-9B97-21487C99A53C@m-r-d.de> <55CBAD21.5090305@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Can be found here :-) https://github.com/montegoulding/lcVCS -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Richard Gaskin Sent: 12 August 2015 21:31 To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Subject: Re: Business Application Framework Matthias Rebbe wrote: >> Am 12.08.2015 um 21:33 schrieb Richard Gaskin: >> >> Kevin Miller wrote: >> > If you want VCS in the Open Source Community or Indy edition, there >> > is already lcVCS out there >> >> Where? > > The only lcVCS i am aware of is the free lcVCS plugin from Monte. You > can download it at his site at http://www.mergext.com. But you have > to register first. I didn't see it there, and using the site's Search box yielded 0 results for "lcvcs". Did I just miss it? Is there another option in the community that doesn't require email harvesting? -- Richard Gaskin LiveCode Community Manager richard at livecode.org _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Wed Aug 12 16:42:53 2015 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe | M-R-D) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 22:42:53 +0200 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: <55CBAD21.5090305@fourthworld.com> References: <2BFBCFB7-45E1-4113-9B97-21487C99A53C@m-r-d.de> <55CBAD21.5090305@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <7084964E-E8AB-4B3A-BA4F-A551B1C0E0D9@m-r-d.de> > Am 12.08.2015 um 22:31 schrieb Richard Gaskin : > > Matthias Rebbe wrote: >> >> The only lcVCS i am aware of is the free lcVCS plugin from Monte. You >> can download it at his site at http://www.mergext.com. But you have >> to register first. > > I didn't see it there, and using the site's Search box yielded 0 results for "lcvcs". > > Did I just miss it? > > Is there another option in the community that doesn't require email harvesting? > Hi, as the plugin is published under GNU general public license i think its okay if i share an other download link. Please find it at https://dl.dropbox.com/s/fo9bnxmp1ismimk/index.html Matthias > -- > Richard Gaskin > LiveCode Community Manager > richard at livecode.org > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Aug 12 16:52:06 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 13:52:06 -0700 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55CBB1F6.8020405@fourthworld.com> Andrew Kluthe wrote: > ...I'm pretty shocked to that native GIT support and a proper > MVC-style framework for livecode isn't part of Livecode Community. > I think this is a big mistake on the part of the steward company > of this software. I get the framework thing even, almost. But > basic Version Control support? Wowsa. That's some third rate nickel > and diming of your user base. > > All that stuff people were worried about happening a few weeks back > in emails, and all the damage control that was done on part of the > community leaders seems like it was justified after seeing this. To clarify, my own opinions at that time were based on a single email mention of a camera widget with exotic functionality. Now that we're talking about a much broader scope, and especially given the central role of VCS in fostering healthy open source work, my opinion is now more open than before, and somewhat undecided. If it turns out that we've had a great open source option the whole time and just never realized it, the situation is somewhat mitigated. I don't know if lcVCS is available under GPL-compatible license, and if so that would seem a good option. But then again, if it's a good option why would LiveCode Ltd undertake the non-trivial expense of writing a completely different tool? These are open questions, for which I currently have no answer. So before you feel tempted to indulge in name-calling like "fanboys" and "shills", please consider that there are individuals involved, and the range of opinions may be as diverse as their are people. My own volunteer role is to help implement an effective open source strategy through community engagement. To the degree that this is something LiveCode Ltd is committed to, and as long as we continue to see community members willing to help as we have with the Documentation, Translation, and Educational Outreach teams, I remain at the service of this community to help see it through. -- Richard Gaskin LiveCode Community Manager richard at livecode.org From andrew at ctech.me Wed Aug 12 16:52:07 2015 From: andrew at ctech.me (Andrew Kluthe) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 20:52:07 +0000 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: References: <2BFBCFB7-45E1-4113-9B97-21487C99A53C@m-r-d.de> <55CBAD21.5090305@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Monte said himself that he was going to stop improving it in major ways as he expected Livecode Community to have native git support that Livecode Community's steward company was working on. Many of us thought this feature was probably a WHEN and not and IF. Sure it wasn't in the open source roadmap but most of us assumed that the features available in the open source version didn't STOP at the roadmap's end. These decisions increasingly seem to indicate that the alarmist rhetoric surrounding the possibility of a nerfed/restricted community version wasn't so much alarmist rhetoric as actual concerns that we are starting to see manifest here. I feel like this is a programming version of a "free to play" game. Sure it's free but if you want do anything "serious" with it you are going to have to grind like crazy or pay a premium in the form of in-game tokens. There is a reason those kind of games are both generating tons of income for those hooked by it while simultaneously being reviled at large. On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 3:36 PM Paul Richards wrote: > Can be found here :-) https://github.com/montegoulding/lcVCS > > -----Original Message----- > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On > Behalf Of Richard Gaskin > Sent: 12 August 2015 21:31 > To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Subject: Re: Business Application Framework > > Matthias Rebbe wrote: > > >> Am 12.08.2015 um 21:33 schrieb Richard Gaskin: > >> > >> Kevin Miller wrote: > >> > If you want VCS in the Open Source Community or Indy edition, there > >> > is already lcVCS out there >> >> Where? > > > > The only lcVCS i am aware of is the free lcVCS plugin from Monte. You > > can download it at his site at http://www.mergext.com. But you have > > to register first. > > I didn't see it there, and using the site's Search box yielded 0 results > for "lcvcs". > > Did I just miss it? > > Is there another option in the community that doesn't require email > harvesting? > > -- > Richard Gaskin > LiveCode Community Manager > richard at livecode.org > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Kind regards, Andrew Kluthe From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Aug 12 16:59:08 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 13:59:08 -0700 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55CBB39C.40905@fourthworld.com> Paul Richards wrote: > Richard Gaskin wrote: >> Matthias Rebbe wrote: >>> The only lcVCS i am aware of is the free lcVCS plugin from Monte. >>> You > can download it at his site at http://www.mergext.com. >> >> I didn't see it there, and using the site's Search box yielded 0 >> results for "lcvcs". > > Can be found here :-) https://github.com/montegoulding/lcVCS Nice! Thanks! And it gets better: Monte has generously chosen the GPLv3 as the distribution license for the project. Thank you Monte! So now we have a few questions: 1. Why hasn't this been more widely promoted? 2. Why hasn't it been submitted to the only resource-sharing tool we have built into the IDE? 3. Monte (or anyone else with a moment): Would you consider posting it to the "Sample Stacks" repository? On my part I'll see what I can do to get that name changed to something that more accurately reflects the important role that repository can play in our community. Thanks again for finding that, Paul. -- Richard Gaskin LiveCode Community Manager richard at livecode.org From brahma at hindu.org Wed Aug 12 16:59:53 2015 From: brahma at hindu.org (Brahmanathaswami) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 10:59:53 -1000 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: <6D289659C63D4FB087F9F3DCFAD44B48@GATEWAY> References: <6D289659C63D4FB087F9F3DCFAD44B48@GATEWAY> Message-ID: <55CBB3C9.2090004@hindu.org> @ Kevin: We are non-profit.. I have an Indy license solely for the iOS password protection requirement. Expand my use case to 10,000's of students and educators and hobbyists and web site owners who mix it up with desktop clients and server side API's like I do...if something is over my head, I pay for hours from the brainiacs we all know and love (Andre, and soon others) we are talking 100,000 plus potential users who would not fall into your "serious business customers" bracket, who every day have to decide if they want to use Unity, Blender, PHP, Ruby, JS, Python for their solutions. LC stands side by side a thriving and dynamically evolving world. We truly are in the middle of a digital revolution. Be careful not to suck the wind out of your own sails. If I want to put my "stack out there" and get help.. have some others work on it, pro bono.. .or I might pay them for 10-15 hours of work. Someone is inspired... to help... (Jacqueline helped me recently with a little puzzle module improvements.) @Bill Does this make me and those like us... "single developer for whom GIT is not important" ? hardly... every day recently I thinking about this RVS thing and might resurrect Magic Carpet. @ Kevin wrote: "Some features may filter down to open source.. but for the present we are focused on our serious business customers." and " It is far more than simply adding ?GitHub" to LiveCode. It brings in advanced concepts such as object-orientation, a model-view controller architecture and hooks into data sync and other heavyweight features. It is not for everyone. If you are an individual building an application then you might want to evaluate whether its worth the extra effort, level of complexity and abstractions associated with using it." IMHO: (sorry for the tough talk... we are all friends here... I love you all in Edinburgh! think of this as positive brainstorming... all team players on the same team.) a) All your fund raising campaigns, were promises, We can sit all day and do triage on the roadmap, which features where promised, and to who and who was helping to support future development of what... etc. (I think you have been doing great!) but the whole spirit of where you were going -- your leadership message to the community was a huge promise to us. Which now you say that "well some features may be beyond you... so we are going to charge for those." or, as some might take it "you might be a dummy so you really don't need those things in your community or Indy world." I humbly suggest this is not the message you want to send to the world. b) Agreed, there may certainly be some things beyond, me, but not beyond others in my "category" half production manager/half-executive/half educator/half coder e.g. I have an indy license, can't I hire David Bovill or Monte to help with some module for my 100% free-never-see-a-penny in revenue app that I am making? Yep I have a small budget for that but "Oh Gee, no collaborative framework, ouch.. .and I can't use all that other cool stuff (object oriented, MVC... whatever) that I thought we were all helping to pay for development of...." c) suggestion: "Some features may filter down to open source" Don't wait.... parse out today, now! Parse out what all those users who have PHP, Ruby, Unity, Javascript staring in their face this very moment, would expect and want that you now propose to put behind a paywall. Do I need cloud services? no... skip that one... do we all need a collaborative framework "duh!" How will you *ever* achieve your goal of have LC be one of the top ten languages with that that? go down that list today. Move features over to the open source column today. d) @ Lyn Teyla: Ditto what Lyn said... she (he?) pretty well defined c) above. e) #@ Andrew: lighten up dude! LC still gets the job done. Give Kevin credit for steering the ship as well as he has... it's not an easy job! On a positive note: At the end of the day I will still be using LiveCode.. in the past three weeks I'm building my first mobile app. I must finish a complete working prototype by September 15. (rarely do I have that kind of deadline) I know for a fact that had I done this in any other language... or even hired someone competent in any other language... that we would still be at "phase one" and not anywhere near close to how far I have come in less than 30 man hours...... Lynn Fredricks wrote: >> That said, I'm a single developer, so git isn't >> > important to me. Also, if the purpose of the Indy license was >> > to support single developers, working alone, would git be >> > particularly attractive? Just asking. >> > Bill > > That makes sense to me, Bill. > > I cannot comment specifically on the Business Application Framework, but if > we are talking specifically about team features, aren't team features > contrary to the idea of an "indie" license - which to me, suggests working > on your own projects as an "indie" developer. > > Best regards, > > Lynn Fredricks From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Aug 12 17:02:42 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 00:02:42 +0300 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: <55CBB1F6.8020405@fourthworld.com> References: <55CBB1F6.8020405@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <55CBB472.3000300@gmail.com> On 12/08/15 23:52, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Andrew Kluthe wrote: > >> ...I'm pretty shocked to that native GIT support and a proper >> MVC-style framework for livecode isn't part of Livecode Community. >> I think this is a big mistake on the part of the steward company >> of this software. I get the framework thing even, almost. But >> basic Version Control support? Wowsa. That's some third rate nickel >> and diming of your user base. >> >> All that stuff people were worried about happening a few weeks back >> in emails, and all the damage control that was done on part of the >> community leaders seems like it was justified after seeing this. > > To clarify, my own opinions at that time were based on a single email > mention of a camera widget with exotic functionality. > > Now that we're talking about a much broader scope, and especially > given the central role of VCS in fostering healthy open source work, > my opinion is now more open than before, and somewhat undecided. > > If it turns out that we've had a great open source option the whole > time and just never realized it, the situation is somewhat mitigated. > > I don't know if lcVCS is available under GPL-compatible license, and > if so that would seem a good option. But then again, if it's a good > option why would LiveCode Ltd undertake the non-trivial expense of > writing a completely different tool? > > These are open questions, for which I currently have no answer. > > So before you feel tempted to indulge in name-calling like "fanboys" > and "shills", please consider that there are individuals involved, and > the range of opinions may be as diverse as their are people. > > My own volunteer role is to help implement an effective open source > strategy through community engagement. > > To the degree that this is something LiveCode Ltd is committed to, and > as long as we continue to see community members willing to help as we > have with the Documentation, Translation, and Educational Outreach > teams, I remain at the service of this community to help see it through. > I, for one am not going to characterise R. Gaskin or Ms Gay as "fanboys"; "fans" yes, but that does not mean that they are zombie-like uncritical cheerleaders (even though . . .). I, odd as it may seem, am also a "fan" Big Time of LiveCode. If I were not a fan of LiveCode I would not have spent all the time I have spent this evening on "that monster post" . . .but either gone and sought out another xTalk programming environment, or language, or just, simply kept on programming my own stuff with LiveCode as it is at the moment. I feel for Richard Gaskin a lot as he is caught between the Devil and the Deep Blue Sea, and doing that for nothing as well: not "fun" at times, I'm sure. I also feel for Kevin Miller as I believe he is one of the most creative and innovative programming minds there is, and I hate to see him mucking things up for the simple reason that he is trying to do his own PR when he should stick at what he does best. Perhaps, instead of hiring the next programmer LiveCode should seriously consider hiring a marketing manager who knows something about phraseology and won't send out stuff about new ideas of LiveCode that "come out all wrong" and use phrases [c.f. 'happy dance'] that are completely stylistically inappropriate for that context. Richmond. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Aug 12 17:13:20 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 00:13:20 +0300 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: References: <2BFBCFB7-45E1-4113-9B97-21487C99A53C@m-r-d.de> <55CBAD21.5090305@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <55CBB6F0.5060502@gmail.com> On 12/08/15 23:52, Andrew Kluthe wrote: > Monte said himself that he was going to stop improving it in major ways as > he expected Livecode Community to have native git support that Livecode > Community's steward company was working on. > > Many of us thought this feature was probably a WHEN and not and IF. Sure it > wasn't in the open source roadmap but most of us assumed that the features > available in the open source version didn't STOP at the roadmap's end. Quite. I was led to believe (whether by what RunRev/LiveCode stated at the time, or my own naivety coupled with my unbounded enthusiasm at the possibility of an Open Source version) that the Open Source version would always maintain *feature parity* with the Commercial version beyond the ability to password protect scripts. > These decisions increasingly seem to indicate that the alarmist rhetoric > surrounding the possibility of a nerfed/restricted community version wasn't > so much alarmist rhetoric as actual concerns that we are starting to see > manifest here. One of my other names is Cassandra. > I feel like this is a programming version of a "free to > play" game. Sure it's free but if you want do anything "serious" with it > you are going to have to grind like crazy or pay a premium in the form of > in-game tokens. There is a reason those kind of games are both generating > tons of income for those hooked by it while simultaneously being reviled at > large. Yup: I have had quite a few kids who attend my school getting themselves into the brown stuff by entering the numbers from Daddy's credit card during those games. When I got my iPad I installed a couple of mahjong games I like, but deleted both of them within a week because of the "cough up now for jazzier layouts" messages that would come up and block the screen at important moments. If I'm going to buy something, I'm going to buy something; but if something is offered to me as free I'm just not going to pay later. What an old friend of mine used to call "A right Whoreson's". Even if nothing else, LiveCode have successfully managed to alienate a significant number of their much-vaunted 'community'; and it is obvious that they intended to do this (unless they are even more insensitive than I am) as they have had about 3 stabs at it since the release of the Open Source version - each one increasingly snotty. Richmond. From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Aug 12 17:20:42 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 14:20:42 -0700 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: <55CBB472.3000300@gmail.com> References: <55CBB472.3000300@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55CBB8AA.4030109@fourthworld.com> Richmond wrote: > I feel for Richard Gaskin a lot as he is caught between the Devil and > the Deep Blue Sea, and doing that for nothing as well: not "fun" at times, > I'm sure. I appreciate your concern, but my experience is very much the opposite: I'm not on any payroll but my own; I am not an employee of LiveCode Ltd. My role is as a volunteer, and focused solely on fostering the Community Edition through open source process. So for better or for worse, any words I write here are my own. If they seem optimistic at times it's only because I try to keep my attention focused on actionable outcomes. -- Richard Gaskin LiveCode Community Manager richard at livecode.org From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Aug 12 17:21:05 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 00:21:05 +0300 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: <55CBB3C9.2090004@hindu.org> References: <6D289659C63D4FB087F9F3DCFAD44B48@GATEWAY> <55CBB3C9.2090004@hindu.org> Message-ID: <55CBB8C1.9020305@gmail.com> On 12/08/15 23:59, Brahmanathaswami wrote: > @ Kevin: We are non-profit.. I have an Indy license solely for the iOS > password protection requirement. Expand my use case to 10,000's of > students and educators and hobbyists and web site owners who mix it up > with desktop clients and server side API's like I do...if something is > over my head, I pay for hours from the brainiacs we all know and love > (Andre, and soon others) we are talking 100,000 plus potential users > who would not fall into your "serious business customers" bracket, who > every day have to decide if they want to use Unity, Blender, PHP, > Ruby, JS, Python for their solutions. LC stands side by side a > thriving and dynamically evolving world. We truly are in the middle of > a digital revolution. Be careful not to suck the wind out of your own > sails. > > If I want to put my "stack out there" and get help.. have some others > work on it, pro bono.. .or I might pay them for 10-15 hours of work. > Someone is inspired... to help... (Jacqueline helped me recently with > a little puzzle module improvements.) > > @Bill Does this make me and those like us... "single developer for > whom GIT is not important" ? hardly... every day recently I thinking > about this RVS thing and might resurrect Magic Carpet. > > @ Kevin wrote: "Some features may filter down to open source.. but for > the present we are focused on our serious business customers." > > and > > " It is far more than simply adding ?GitHub" to LiveCode. It brings in > advanced concepts such as object-orientation, a model-view controller > architecture and hooks into data sync and other heavyweight features. > It is not for everyone. If you are an individual building an > application then you might want to evaluate whether its worth the > extra effort, level of complexity and abstractions associated with > using it." > > > IMHO: (sorry for the tough talk... we are all friends here... I love > you all in Edinburgh! think of this as positive brainstorming... all > team players on the same team.) > > a) All your fund raising campaigns, were promises, We can sit all day > and do triage on the roadmap, which features where promised, and to > who and who was helping to support future development of what... etc. > (I think you have been doing great!) but the whole spirit of where you > were going -- your leadership message to the community was a huge > promise to us. Which now you say that "well some features may be > beyond you... so we are going to charge for those." or, as some might > take it "you might be a dummy so you really don't need those things > in your community or Indy world." I humbly suggest this is not the > message you want to send to the world. > > b) Agreed, there may certainly be some things beyond, me, but not > beyond others in my "category" half production > manager/half-executive/half educator/half coder e.g. I have an indy > license, can't I hire David Bovill or Monte to help with some module > for my 100% free-never-see-a-penny in revenue app that I am making? > > Yep I have a small budget for that but "Oh Gee, no collaborative > framework, ouch.. .and I can't use all that other cool stuff (object > oriented, MVC... whatever) that I thought we were all helping to pay > for development of...." > > c) suggestion: "Some features may filter down to open source" Don't > wait.... parse out today, now! Parse out what all those users who > have PHP, Ruby, Unity, Javascript staring in their face this very > moment, would expect and want that you now propose to put behind a > paywall. Do I need cloud services? no... skip that one... do we all > need a collaborative framework "duh!" How will you *ever* achieve your > goal of have LC be one of the top ten languages with that that? go > down that list today. Move features over to the open source column today. > > d) @ Lyn Teyla: Ditto what Lyn said... she (he?) pretty well defined > c) above. > > e) #@ Andrew: lighten up dude! LC still gets the job done. Give Kevin > credit for steering the ship as well as he has... it's not an easy job! > > On a positive note: At the end of the day I will still be using > LiveCode.. in the past three weeks I'm building my first mobile app. I > must finish a complete working prototype by September 15. (rarely do I > have that kind of deadline) I know for a fact that had I done this in > any other language... or even hired someone competent in any other > language... that we would still be at "phase one" and not anywhere > near close to how far I have come in less than 30 man hours...... > *Brahmanathaswami* has basically said what I have said, although, admittedly, in a slightly more tactful way. There are other voices out there who are reading this thread at the moment, but are saying nothing or very little. This debate is important (whichever way your opinions swings!), especially if you care about LiveCode; in terms of its Open Source arm, it Commercial arm, and its survival. I don't think LiveCode will thrive if it continues to present itself to the world in the way it is just now. The more people who state their opinion, the more healthy and pluralistic the debate will become, and the more likely that LiveCode will sit up and take notice *seriously*: something I believe it should have done a very long time ago. Richmond. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Aug 12 17:27:26 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 00:27:26 +0300 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: <55CBB8AA.4030109@fourthworld.com> References: <55CBB472.3000300@gmail.com> <55CBB8AA.4030109@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <55CBBA3E.6000301@gmail.com> On 13/08/15 00:20, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Richmond wrote: > >> I feel for Richard Gaskin a lot as he is caught between the Devil and >> the Deep Blue Sea, and doing that for nothing as well: not "fun" at >> times, >> I'm sure. > > I appreciate your concern, but my experience is very much the > opposite: I'm not on any payroll but my own; I am not an employee of > LiveCode Ltd. My role is as a volunteer, and focused solely on > fostering the Community Edition through open source process. > > So for better or for worse, any words I write here are my own. > > If they seem optimistic at times it's only because I try to keep my > attention focused on actionable outcomes. > I'm only on my payroll as well, and it does give one a marvellous sense of freedom. However, as I am a lot further away from the mothership than you are I am not very good at assessing which outcomes are actionable. As I stated earlier: I see my role as a provoker of debate, because debate IS needed if we are not to become like some cult taking orders from on high and continually going "Yes". However, I do think that the person who said "Good luck list/livecode community, I'll see you later." is not helping at all. That is just negative flack that does not lead anywhere. If that person really wanted to wish the community some 'luck' s/he would continue to join in the debate and address the points that have been raised so far in some sort of constructive fashion. Richmond. From monte at sweattechnologies.com Wed Aug 12 17:30:14 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 07:30:14 +1000 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: <55CBAD21.5090305@fourthworld.com> References: <2BFBCFB7-45E1-4113-9B97-21487C99A53C@m-r-d.de> <55CBAD21.5090305@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: It's open source Richard. Anyone can distribute it. I just choose to distribute binaries of my open source stuff via mergExt for obvious reasons.... Sent from my iPhone > On 13 Aug 2015, at 6:31 am, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > Is there another option in the community that doesn't require email harvesting? From peter.brett at livecode.com Wed Aug 12 17:35:01 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 23:35:01 +0200 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: <55CBB1F6.8020405@fourthworld.com> References: <55CBB1F6.8020405@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <42b03c3c9805dc2379d282cefaed3883@livecode.com> On 2015-08-12 22:52, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Now that we're talking about a much broader scope, and especially > given the central role of VCS in fostering healthy open source work, > my opinion is now more open than before, and somewhat undecided. > > If it turns out that we've had a great open source option the whole > time and just never realized it, the situation is somewhat mitigated. > > I don't know if lcVCS is available under GPL-compatible license, and > if so that would seem a good option. But then again, if it's a good > option why would LiveCode Ltd undertake the non-trivial expense of > writing a completely different tool? > > These are open questions, for which I currently have no answer. ## Current state of version control for stacks I spent the first few months after joining LiveCode attempting to implement a scheme which would allow *any* LiveCode app -- no matter how complicated -- to be stored in a format that could be reliably and safely stored in a version control system and losslessly converted to and from "traditional" LiveCode stacks. It turned out to be impractical to do this any better than lcVCS does, and lcVCS is already free software that any of our users can use, so my project got shelved around Christmas 2014 [1]. If you want to see where I got to, go and look at: * https://github.com/peter-b/livecode/tree/feature-stackdir -- full spec + implementation for on-disk format * https://github.com/peter-b/livecode/tree/feature-stackarr -- partial implementation of stack (de)serialisation It's entirely free software, and anyone can take the code and finish the job. ## Business Application Framework != version control for stacks In the meantime, one of our developers explored an alternative approach to storing apps in version control. It becomes much easier when you constrain users to write and design their programs in a **totally** different way to traditional LiveCode apps. That's the Business Application Framework. It's a completely new approach to LiveCode version control, in that it doesn't even attempt to solve the problem of applying version control to LiveCode stacks. It is probably also worth mentioning that the Business Application Framework is written entirely in LiveCode. It's built using features that are available to everyone as free software in the community edition. Specifically, those features are: text based file I/O, string manipulation, and script-only stacks. Peter [1] Since then, I've been working on LiveCode Builder, HTML5, and various quality assurance things (including a continuous integration bot written in pure LCB -- no LiveCode engine needed!) -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Engine Development Team From alex at harryscollar.com Wed Aug 12 17:35:13 2015 From: alex at harryscollar.com (Alex Shaw) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 07:35:13 +1000 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: <55CB98E9.9080904@hyperactivesw.com> References: <6D289659C63D4FB087F9F3DCFAD44B48@GATEWAY> <55CB6E0C.4030503@gmail.com> <55CB7BDF.6040509@hyperactivesw.com> <55CB960E.3030505@gmail.com> <55CB98E9.9080904@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <55CBBC11.1020104@harryscollar.com> Personally still waiting for the "Reworked Multimedia Support".. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1755283828/open-source-edition-of-livecode/posts?page=4 The current audio support is archaic and it's still not possible to easily record audio on mobile. regards alex On 13/08/2015 5:05 am, J. Landman Gay wrote: > On 8/12/2015 1:53 PM, Richmond wrote: >> >> But I am sure I am not the only person who suffers from this "confusion" >> . . . I wonder why? > > Maybe you missed the roadmap: > > Now that I re-read it, the physics engine is in there too. > From monte at sweattechnologies.com Wed Aug 12 17:36:22 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 07:36:22 +1000 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: References: <2BFBCFB7-45E1-4113-9B97-21487C99A53C@m-r-d.de> <55CBAD21.5090305@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <0162FBA5-1700-4A06-AE6C-86EE15184D55@sweattechnologies.com> Indeed this is what I was told. I thought I had convinced Kevin that version control needed to stop being an afterthought on this platform and start being something that just works with the core offering. The platform wouldn't even be considered by most developers because of the binary format. Yes version control IS that important! What a disappointment... Sent from my iPhone > On 13 Aug 2015, at 6:52 am, Andrew Kluthe wrote: > > Monte said himself that he was going to stop improving it in major ways as > he expected Livecode Community to have native git support that Livecode > Community's steward company was working on. From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Aug 12 17:43:13 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 14:43:13 -0700 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: <55CBB8C1.9020305@gmail.com> References: <55CBB8C1.9020305@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55CBBDF1.9070002@fourthworld.com> Richmond wrote: > I don't think LiveCode will thrive if it continues to present itself to > the world in the way it is just now. > > The more people who state their opinion, the more healthy and > pluralistic the debate will become, and the more likely that LiveCode > will sit up and take notice *seriously*: something I believe it should > have done a very long time ago. If all you're asking for is what you wrote, you'd have been satisfied long ago. Given the regular acknowledgement of the opinions presented here, I think it's safe to say they've taken notice. Respectfully, it would seem you're asking for something else, not just "taking notice", but actually implementing specific suggestions. But which ones? Our community has offered many suggestions, but taken as a whole they don't always agree, and sometimes even contradict one another. As a community discussion that's fine, but as business guidance it becomes more challenging. Should we put company decisions to a vote? On a certain level that might seem sensible, since we're the customers so it would seem that we know what's best. But we're today's customers, many of us with backgrounds in other xTalks, a dialect largely unknown to the modern world if it weren't for LiveCode. Tomorrow's customers are very different, and anything learned by surveying current customers risks missing critical information about the needs of tomorrow's. A bright future will depend on having new customers outnumber old ones many times over. So maybe we should put company decisions to a vote, but only among newcomers. Or give newcomers 5 votes to our 1. But many newcomers are coming from the open source world, which is important for the growth of the platform but doesn't do as much for immediate short-term revenue. So should we have open source newcomers with 4 votes, and entrepreneur newcomers with 5? And how many of any of us, ol' timers and newcomers alike, have demonstrated experience managing a software company the size of RunRev? And of those, how many have done so in the dev tools space, with its limited Total Addressable Market Size? I think the properly exploiting the opportunity of LiveCode is an inherently non-trivial problem, and will requiring a mix of creativity and courage to explore solutions, because I don't believe I've seen anything like LiveCode before so we have little in the way of rote knowledge to draw from. But if there's anything in recent discussions on which there's anything close to unanimity, whether from ol' timers or newcomers, whether from open source developers or proprietary entrepreneurs, it's that maintaining feature parity between Community and Commercial as close as practical is important for everyone. Now we just have to figure out what "as close as practical" means.... -- Richard Gaskin LiveCode Community Manager richard at livecode.org From monte at sweattechnologies.com Wed Aug 12 17:49:55 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 07:49:55 +1000 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: <55CBB39C.40905@fourthworld.com> References: <55CBB39C.40905@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <2F7CB0D2-6DE0-4918-BAD3-DA1149C5DA2E@sweattechnologies.com> > 1. Why hasn't this been more widely promoted? It's only been promoted on the lists, forums and Facebook. For a while RunRev were going to buy it, then they decided to do their own so I stopped pushing ahead with lcVCS as it appeared to be a waste of time. Now this and maybe it's back in the game.. Not sure yet. > > 2. Why hasn't it been submitted to the only resource-sharing tool we have built into the IDE? I'm not sure I've ever looked in there... Is it worthwhile? Before you get excited lcVCS doesn't support LC 8 yet because I'd need to depend on IDE code to do it at the moment and that seems risky. That and there appeared to be no point working on it until today... From prothero at earthednet.org Wed Aug 12 17:52:44 2015 From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 14:52:44 -0700 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: <2F7CB0D2-6DE0-4918-BAD3-DA1149C5DA2E@sweattechnologies.com> References: <55CBB39C.40905@fourthworld.com> <2F7CB0D2-6DE0-4918-BAD3-DA1149C5DA2E@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: "But if there's anything in recent discussions on which there's anything close to unanimity, whether from ol' timers or newcomers, whether from open source developers or proprietary entrepreneurs, it's that maintaining feature parity between Community and Commercial as close as practical is important for everyone.? (from Richard) Agreed wholeheartedly!. Bill > On Aug 12, 2015, at 2:49 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > > >> 1. Why hasn't this been more widely promoted? > > It's only been promoted on the lists, forums and Facebook. For a while RunRev were going to buy it, then they decided to do their own so I stopped pushing ahead with lcVCS as it appeared to be a waste of time. Now this and maybe it's back in the game.. Not sure yet. >> >> 2. Why hasn't it been submitted to the only resource-sharing tool we have built into the IDE? > > I'm not sure I've ever looked in there... Is it worthwhile? > > Before you get excited lcVCS doesn't support LC 8 yet because I'd need to depend on IDE code to do it at the moment and that seems risky. That and there appeared to be no point working on it until today... > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From monte at sweattechnologies.com Wed Aug 12 17:57:46 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 07:57:46 +1000 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: <42b03c3c9805dc2379d282cefaed3883@livecode.com> References: <55CBB1F6.8020405@fourthworld.com> <42b03c3c9805dc2379d282cefaed3883@livecode.com> Message-ID: Thanks for the details Peter. I had thought the BAF was a product of your work on the file format. I wonder if the current situation warrants a further investigation into the things that would assist my script based solution? Object UUIDs and more support for working out widget metadata without depending on ide code. Sent from my iPhone > On 13 Aug 2015, at 7:35 am, Peter TB Brett wrote: > > ## Current state of version control for stacks From jeff at siphonophore.com Wed Aug 12 18:21:28 2015 From: jeff at siphonophore.com (Jeff Reynolds) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 18:21:28 -0400 Subject: [OT] Teaching methodology In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1B2F55CA-39C5-4633-BD7C-BE8D1D2F3956@siphonophore.com> Richmond, ive used a combo when teaching high school kids in the US software or programming. I do some mini lessons so they do practical project (always found this better than theoretical exercises with most students) on a subset of commands or features. proceed each with a small amount of discussion of the commands and features, then the assignments. after a few of these then move to more open ended assignments to let them tie it all together but have a wider understanding of the software or system. Of course there are usually some exceptions to the rule with some way out there students who just dive in and figure it out. these more precocious students usually dont have the tunnel vision issue, that tends to be the grade grubbers who just care about getting the A on the assignment in the most direct course... cheers jeff > On Aug 12, 2015, at 12:37 PM, use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com wrote: > > "Based on my experience with teaching programming to kids who already > have some programming experience but are self-taught, > I find that many of these self-taught programmers tend to focus on a > very limited subset of one particular programming language > and ignore the other, richer features because they have not had a > systematic introduction to the language or to general principles > of programming." > > That is a semi-quote from an acquaintance of mine trying to teach > progging to High School kids in China. > > I would be grateful for lots of insight on my questions that stem from > his statement. > > 1. Do children really need "a systematic introduction to the language or > to general principles of programming" when it > come to working with LiveCode? > > 2. Is this bit true in your experience of self-taught programmers: > > they "tend to focus on a very limited subset of one particular > programming language > and ignore the other, richer features" ?? > > 3. Id #2 is true have you any ideas on how to get self-taught > programmers out of their "comfort zone" > and leveraging other aspects of a programming language? > > Richmond. From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Aug 12 19:10:33 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 16:10:33 -0700 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: <2F7CB0D2-6DE0-4918-BAD3-DA1149C5DA2E@sweattechnologies.com> References: <2F7CB0D2-6DE0-4918-BAD3-DA1149C5DA2E@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <55CBD269.6010407@fourthworld.com> Monte Goulding wrote: >> 1. Why hasn't this been more widely promoted? > > It's only been promoted on the lists, forums and Facebook. For > a while RunRev were going to buy it, then they decided to do > their own so I stopped pushing ahead with lcVCS as it appeared > to be a waste of time. Now this and maybe it's back in the game.. > Not sure yet. It seems that it's very much in the game. Peter's post was especially helpful for two reasons: - It confirms the inherent difficulty in creating a general-purpose VCS tool that covers all edge cases. - It clarifies that LiveCode's solution is even more limited in terms of applicable uses cases, specialized for use in this very specific business framework system. Given this, I think it's well past time for us all to give lcVCS a second look as the community's solution for version control. IIRC the edge cases it may not handle are relatively uncommon anyway, and the value it provides has been strong enough for Trevor to write some very glowing things about. Let's embrace it, enhance it, and make it a centerpiece for all of us who use Github. >> 2. Why hasn't it been submitted to the only resource-sharing tool we >> have built into the IDE? > > I'm not sure I've ever looked in there... Is it worthwhile? "Sample Stacks" is a bit of a turn-off, and the older "RevOnline" name wasn't much better. But the role is very very worthwhile: it's where all of us can share stack files easily. In a recent meeting with Kevin it was clear he recognizes the value of that role, and we both agree the name needs to be changed one more time to make sure it reflects the useful role for us to share things. He's working with the team to see if that can happen soon. In the meantime, any of us can upload it there, esp. given your generous choice of GPL for its license. But one of the nice things about your posting it is that it reflects your name, and given how much work you put into it I'm all in favor of anything that provides as much recognition as possible for you. > Before you get excited lcVCS doesn't support LC 8 yet because I'd > need to depend on IDE code to do it at the moment and that seems > risky. That and there appeared to be no point working on it until > today... I wouldn't worry about v8 just yet. It's a very exciting set of new technologies, but it's going to be some months before it's as robust and performant as the current version, and there are still a few design decisions to be completed. For now the company's revenue is dependent on the current version, v7, and with v6 soon to be EOL'd we all need to make sure v7 is rock solid for us anyway. So lets dive in with lcVCS in v7 today, and with any luck the project will attract enough contributors that they'll be able to handle at least some of whatever work may be needed to port it to v8 later, allowing you to maximize the time you spend on your externals which the community depends on as well. -- Richard Gaskin LiveCode Community Manager richard at livecode.com From monte at sweattechnologies.com Wed Aug 12 19:12:03 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 09:12:03 +1000 Subject: [YO EDINBURGH!] Microsoft Open-Sources It's Toolkit For Making iOS Apps Run On Win 10 In-Reply-To: <55CB99A4.2000407@fourthworld.com> References: <55CB99A4.2000407@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <0ABE9C35-AAB9-4317-B7D0-71882FA00DF1@sweattechnologies.com> > On 13 Aug 2015, at 5:08 am, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > To put it into perspective, half of all iOS revenues go to only the top 100 developers, and the majority of those apps are available on both platforms. The top 1,000 developers consumer most of the app store revenue, with the other million+ dividing the rest for an income that ranges from below minimum wage to zero. Depending on which reports you read, somewhere between 15% and 30% of apps in the iOS app store have never been downloaded at all. In brief, hardly worth bickering about. I think there?s more to this issue than just the app store revenue. I?d be interested to see the stats but my gut feeling is Apple devices are far more commonly deployed by businesses for in house apps. When I got on a plane the other day every seat had an iPad mini etc? lots of stories like that we could all tell... From dunbarx at aol.com Wed Aug 12 19:16:56 2015 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx at aol.com) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 19:16:56 -0400 Subject: Set Variable or CustomProperty Names with and expression In-Reply-To: <55CB8634.2030007@hindu.org> Message-ID: <14f2433c403-4d9e-515de@webprd-a95.mail.aol.com> "Neither of these worked." Sure they do, or rather, they compile without issue. But the code snippets you supplied, before I fixed them, do not do much, since they contain no data to work with, and create nothing. But if you populate some of those orphaned variable references, you will get output. This may be purely academic... Craig -----Original Message----- From: Brahmanathaswami To: How to use LiveCode Sent: Wed, Aug 12, 2015 1:46 pm Subject: Re: Set Variable or CustomProperty Names with and expression Neither of these worked... I took the cue from Mark and tried arrays this was incredibly simple... almost. In the end I was unable to figure out how to pass a variable string as a name of a custom property. My head was hurting, so instead of breaking it on further attempts to find the algorithm for this... I "man handled it" in the end with my usual verbose "baby xTalk" command getAndDistributeCategories set the defaultstack to "Gurudeva" put url ("file:/" & localpath()& "data/gurudeva-quotes.txt") into gAllQuotes set the uAllQuotes of stack "Gurudeva" to gAllQuotes # line/pipe delimited put the uCategories of this stack into tCategories # tab delimited set the linedelimiter to "|" set the itemdelimiter to tab repeat for each line x in gAllQuotes repeat for each item y in tCategories put "t" & y & "Set" into tAggregatedSet if (item 6 of x contains y) then put x & "|" after aQuoteSets[y] end repeat end repeat # get some stats repeat for each item y in tCategories put y & " quotes: " & the number of lines of aQuoteSets[y] & cr after tCountCheck end repeat put tCountCheck into url ("file:/"& localpath() & "data/quote-spread-stats.txt") ## LOAD PROPS - which is the target goal of this handler ## # I "give up" on a more efficient method.. this works but # has the downside of being hard-wired... so if we change the category names # we have to manually massage this code... there must be a better way: # you cannot do anything like # set the ("u" & y & "Set") of this stack... the compiler complains this is illegal set the uKarmaQuotes of this stack to aQuoteSets["Karma"] set the uHinduismQuotes of this stack to aQuoteSets["Hinduism"] set the uSivaQuotes of this stack to aQuoteSets["Siva"] set the uWisdomQuotes of this stack to aQuoteSets["Wisdom"] set the uLifeQuotes of this stack to aQuoteSets["Life"] set the uGuruQuotes of this stack to aQuoteSets["Guru"] set the uSelfQuotes of this stack to aQuoteSets["Self"] set the uGodsQuotes of this stack to aQuoteSets["Gods"] set the uHumorQuotes of this stack to aQuoteSets["Humor"] set the uMeditationQuotes of this stack to aQuoteSets["Meditation"] set the uSadhanaQuotes of this stack to aQuoteSets["Sadhana"] set the uWorshipQuotes of this stack to aQuoteSets["Worship"] end getAndDistributeCategories So this is the same issue: setting variable name or CustomProp name with an expression. Swasti Astu, Be Well! Brahmanathaswami Kauai's Hindu Monastery www.HimalayanAcademy.com dunbarx at aol.com wrote: > repeat for each item y in tCategories > do "if item 6 of"&& x&& "contains"&& y&& "then put"&& x&& "&"&& cr& "| after"&& t& y& "set" > end repeat > > > or: > > > repeat for each item y in tCategories > get ("t"& y& "set") > if item 6 of x contains y then put x& cr& "|" after it > end repeat _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Aug 12 19:22:14 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 16:22:14 -0700 Subject: lcVCS in the LC Forums Message-ID: <55CBD526.8040705@fourthworld.com> Given that our community has needed good Github integration for a long time, and that Monte's lcVCS seems to be the most mature solution available at this time, I've taken the liberty of making a section for it under Community Projects in the LiveCode forums: Hopefully this will help raise visibility for it, and provide a dedicated discussion area for contributors to plan enhancements. -- Richard Gaskin LiveCode Community Manager richard at livecode.org From sc at sahores-conseil.com Wed Aug 12 19:23:42 2015 From: sc at sahores-conseil.com (Pierre Sahores) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 01:23:42 +0200 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7EE22869-2F3F-4B7F-8EF5-74EAC0E2BD67@sahores-conseil.com> > Le 12 ao?t 2015 ? 19:01, Kevin Miller a ?crit : > > The Business Application Framework is a framework for writing more serious > applications in LiveCode. It is far more than simply adding ?GitHub" to > LiveCode. It brings in advanced concepts such as object-orientation, a > model-view controller architecture and hooks into data sync and other > heavyweight features. It is not for everyone. If you are an individual > building an application then you might want to evaluate whether its worth > the extra effort, level of complexity and abstractions associated with > using it. IMHO, beside the GPL3 license availability, LiveCode fully merits such its Business Application Framework, with, ? cerise sur le gateau ?, both OOP and Functional Programming official support ! Warm Regards, -- Pierre Sahores mobile : 06 03 95 77 70 www.sahores-conseil.com From monte at sweattechnologies.com Wed Aug 12 19:25:48 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 09:25:48 +1000 Subject: lcVCS in the LC Forums In-Reply-To: <55CBD526.8040705@fourthworld.com> References: <55CBD526.8040705@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Hmm? there is already a Version Control forum under LiveCode Open Source which I?ve been posting about lcVCS and I thought would be a good place to keep our minds open to other version control projects or just general questions about git or github etc. > On 13 Aug 2015, at 9:22 am, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > Given that our community has needed good Github integration for a long time, and that Monte's lcVCS seems to be the most mature solution available at this time, I've taken the liberty of making a section for it under Community Projects in the LiveCode forums: > > > > Hopefully this will help raise visibility for it, and provide a dedicated discussion area for contributors to plan enhancements. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > LiveCode Community Manager > richard at livecode.org > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Aug 12 19:32:51 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 16:32:51 -0700 Subject: lcVCS in the LC Forums In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55CBD7A3.4060305@fourthworld.com> Monte Goulding wrote: > Hmm? there is already a Version Control forum under LiveCode Open > Source which I?ve been posting about lcVCS and I thought would be > a good place to keep our minds open to other version control > projects or just general questions about git or github etc. Argh - the forum taxonomy is out of control. So many sections and subsections. Some day I'd like to help clean that up, but for the task at hand how about this?: I'll update my new post to point to the main thread in Version Control, but leave it in place since the Community Projects section can be another good place to attract contributors. Then again, is it more likely they'd just find it in the Version Control section? I don't mind on erring on overcoverage, but I also want to try to avoid making an already-overly-complicated taxonomy even more so. Your thoughts? -- Richard Gaskin LiveCode Community Manager richard at livecode.org From monte at sweattechnologies.com Wed Aug 12 19:52:38 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 09:52:38 +1000 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: <55CBD269.6010407@fourthworld.com> References: <2F7CB0D2-6DE0-4918-BAD3-DA1149C5DA2E@sweattechnologies.com> <55CBD269.6010407@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <4C8CDE15-C200-4EA8-9B59-159858F53670@sweattechnologies.com> > It seems that it's very much in the game. Peter's post was especially helpful for two reasons: > > - It confirms the inherent difficulty in creating a general-purpose > VCS tool that covers all edge cases. Yes there were a few of curly issues I had to get my head around. > > - It clarifies that LiveCode's solution is even more limited in terms > of applicable uses cases, specialized for use in this very specific > business framework system. Indeed > > Given this, I think it's well past time for us all to give lcVCS a second look as the community's solution for version control. > > IIRC the edge cases it may not handle are relatively uncommon anyway, and the value it provides has been strong enough for Trevor to write some very glowing things about. > > Let's embrace it, enhance it, and make it a centerpiece for all of us who use Github. It would be great to build some interest. One of the problems I found is there?s relatively few people in this community that have any version control experience and so most of them think they don?t need it because they work on their own etc. I think this caused by the circular problem of developers that need version control don?t look at LC because we can?t do it and therefore there?s little understanding of version control in the community. People I have worked on projects with using lcVCS like Trevor and Martin seem to love being about to review their change history etc. Martin didn?t have any version control experience and now works largely on his own but continues to find it helpful. Trevor simply wasn?t interested in working with anyone else unless he had version control. The project from my perspective has two parts. lcVCS is the engine that manages the file format and is GPL. Then I have an IDE plugin and command line interface that I was intending to sell. The plugin provided some cool git integration into the IDE and the command line interface provided something for git hooks to rebuild your stacks when you merge or checkout and to export them asynchronously after an IDE save of the stack so you don?t interrupt your workflow with stackFile exports. The market for such a thing is quite small compared to the work that goes in so the deal to sell it to LiveCode where it would become a regular part of the IDE was appealing but it didn?t come off. At this stage if I were to get stuck into it again I?d like to merge both projects and release under GPL but I?d need some financial backing to afford the time... > > > >> 2. Why hasn't it been submitted to the only resource-sharing tool we >> have built into the IDE? > > > > I'm not sure I've ever looked in there... Is it worthwhile? > > "Sample Stacks" is a bit of a turn-off, and the older "RevOnline" name wasn't much better. But the role is very very worthwhile: it's where all of us can share stack files easily. I?ll upload today. > > Before you get excited lcVCS doesn't support LC 8 yet because I'd > > need to depend on IDE code to do it at the moment and that seems > > risky. That and there appeared to be no point working on it until > > today... > > I wouldn't worry about v8 just yet. It's a very exciting set of new technologies, but it's going to be some months before it's as robust and performant as the current version, and there are still a few design decisions to be completed. I?d like to support 8 if I can so hopefully Peter et al have some ideas on the widget metadata (which widgets are loaded and what their properties are etc). From monte at sweattechnologies.com Wed Aug 12 20:04:31 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 10:04:31 +1000 Subject: lcVCS in the LC Forums In-Reply-To: <55CBD7A3.4060305@fourthworld.com> References: <55CBD7A3.4060305@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <468508C6-8A87-4518-B79C-4B285F1C4133@sweattechnologies.com> > On 13 Aug 2015, at 9:32 am, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > I'll update my new post to point to the main thread in Version Control, but leave it in place since the Community Projects section can be another good place to attract contributors. That?s fine. One thing you might be interested in is lcVCS has a feature to search GitHub to find public lcVCS based projects and clone them (at the moment there?s 4 ;-) so that it can be a way to deliver plugins (you can set your project up to build stacks directly into the My LiveCode/Plugins folder). Cheers Monte From jiml at netrin.com Wed Aug 12 20:54:08 2015 From: jiml at netrin.com (Jim Lambert) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 17:54:08 -0700 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <60AED8B4-A4A5-4F2B-8F2B-1C6A16C9534A@netrin.com> Richard wrote: > > Did I just miss it? Hi Richard, You did. On http://mergext.com/mergext/ lcVCS is available under the Download tab > Plugins. One may need to be logged in. Otherwise it is on github as PaulR wrote. Jim Lambert From jiml at netrin.com Wed Aug 12 21:07:30 2015 From: jiml at netrin.com (Jim Lambert) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 18:07:30 -0700 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <61E620A3-6996-4BD5-9014-FEAE8012774B@netrin.com> RichardG wrote: > I'm not on any payroll but my own; I am not an employee of > LiveCode Ltd. My role is as a volunteer, and focused solely on > fostering the Community Edition through open source process. I and surely many are most grateful for your superb service to our LiveCode community. Thank You! Jim Lambert From monte at sweattechnologies.com Wed Aug 12 20:45:04 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 10:45:04 +1000 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: <4C8CDE15-C200-4EA8-9B59-159858F53670@sweattechnologies.com> References: <2F7CB0D2-6DE0-4918-BAD3-DA1149C5DA2E@sweattechnologies.com> <55CBD269.6010407@fourthworld.com> <4C8CDE15-C200-4EA8-9B59-159858F53670@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <19F8CB52-56FD-4D60-9A5D-B2A906DE2A2F@sweattechnologies.com> > On 13 Aug 2015, at 9:52 am, Monte Goulding wrote: > >> "Sample Stacks" is a bit of a turn-off, and the older "RevOnline" name wasn't much better. But the role is very very worthwhile: it's where all of us can share stack files easily. > > I?ll upload today. Hmm? can?t upload because lcVCS is more than just one stack? I?d have to build a stack that sucked lcVCS stack into custom properties then installed it. Why doesn?t this thing support zip files... From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Wed Aug 12 22:27:20 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 19:27:20 -0700 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: <19F8CB52-56FD-4D60-9A5D-B2A906DE2A2F@sweattechnologies.com> References: <2F7CB0D2-6DE0-4918-BAD3-DA1149C5DA2E@sweattechnologies.com> <55CBD269.6010407@fourthworld.com> <4C8CDE15-C200-4EA8-9B59-159858F53670@sweattechnologies.com> <19F8CB52-56FD-4D60-9A5D-B2A906DE2A2F@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <55CC0088.3070907@ahsoftware.net> On 08/12/2015 05:45 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > Why doesn?t this thing support zip files... Indeed. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Wed Aug 12 22:32:41 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 19:32:41 -0700 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: References: <55CBB1F6.8020405@fourthworld.com> <42b03c3c9805dc2379d282cefaed3883@livecode.com> Message-ID: <55CC01C9.2030202@ahsoftware.net> On 08/12/2015 02:57 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > I wonder if the current situation warrants a further investigation into the things that would assist my script based solution? Object UUIDs and more support for working out widget metadata without depending on ide code. Right. I thought lcVCS was basically as far as we could take this, given the team's resistance to implementing uuid object ids. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From brahma at hindu.org Wed Aug 12 22:37:07 2015 From: brahma at hindu.org (Brahmanathaswami) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 16:37:07 -1000 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: <55CBD269.6010407@fourthworld.com> References: <2F7CB0D2-6DE0-4918-BAD3-DA1149C5DA2E@sweattechnologies.com> <55CBD269.6010407@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <55CC02D3.7010300@hindu.org> Richard Gaskin wrote: > So lets dive in with lcVCS in v7 today, and with any luck the project > will attract enough contributors that they'll be able to handle at > least some of whatever work may be needed to port it to v8 later, > allowing you to maximize the time you spend on your externals which > the community depends on as well. Good positive move to take the energy from this somewhat tense thread to pour into a useful direction. Though I still think it behooves Kevin to consider VCS for the whole community -- it would be "HUGE" for his goals to make LC one of the world's top languages. I did study the Git book and that level of code control, played with it for a while using some scripts on the web server... I found myself spending more and more time on the cmd line than I would have liked. No doubt one who is using GIT a lot will become very efficient.. It certainly is a powerful tool. But for one level of user it's a bit time consuming and feels like it gets in the way... Meanwhile... I guess what I'm saying is, a full blown GIT management of scripts is scary to me when I would be content with "document" control... where a stack is a document and in some contexts it can simply be shared with someone else or "checked out" they work on it and "check it back in" ... while it is "check out" I can't touch it. If there were some way to regress and view changes that would be super, but not necessarily required. A simple approach is, Person A gives it Person B and B makes improvements. If nothing is broken... keep on going.. if person B messes up... we delete his version and regress back one and keep going... I made my own "magic carpet" in-house for InDesign document RCS and our team loves it. We have, in 4 years since we abandoned Adobe's version control, not lost any work or the the ability to regress to a previous version. 12 people working on the same document repositories on the LAN server. It would be simple for me to adapt my model to include HTTP calls to the server. The model is super simple: document is archived and checked in... if it is checked out by someone else, you can't touch it. When someone else checks it back in, another copy is made both on the server and locally. At anytime something breaks (iteraton21.livecode) there's copies of the last revision (iteration20.livecode) in 3 places, on user's A hard drive, the server and on user B hard drive. We can always recover. Its simple but robust "pass the baton." RCS I realize that the super coders would find that simply too limiting... but I think it works for a lot of not-so-edge cases. A strong Video screen tutorial on lcVCS might be useful. I want to see if that's where I want to go, or resurrect Magic Carpet... Perhaps there is, within lcVCS a way to keep it that simple. Monte... do you have documentation I can read somewhere? I have a need coming up here soon. I'm in the middle of working on a mobile app, and will shortly reach my limits and then I'll want to pass it off to others to improve, re-factor my code if necessary and fill out the features that are beyond my competency. So I'm scratching my head right now about just how to do that. Methods now are painful: FTP to server... send someone an email. manually change file names etc... Maybe we need to move this to a new thread? Anyone ever hear from Chip in Texas? (author of Magic Carpet) Altuit.com not longer seems to be up. Chipp seems to have moved on to other planets: http://blog.chipp.com/ Cheers from Hawaii. Monte, I hope your farm is not too cold down there! Brahmanathaswami From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Wed Aug 12 22:40:08 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 19:40:08 -0700 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: <42b03c3c9805dc2379d282cefaed3883@livecode.com> References: <55CBB1F6.8020405@fourthworld.com> <42b03c3c9805dc2379d282cefaed3883@livecode.com> Message-ID: <55CC0388.4090803@ahsoftware.net> On 08/12/2015 02:35 PM, Peter TB Brett wrote: > ## Current state of version control for stacks > > I spent the first few months after joining LiveCode attempting to > implement a scheme which would allow *any* LiveCode app -- no matter how > complicated -- to be stored in a format that could be reliably and > safely stored in a version control system and losslessly converted to > and from "traditional" LiveCode stacks. I did this some years ago, and it's still built into the glx2 script editor because I've been too lazy to pull it out. But it can suffer once again from the lack of uuid object ids. When Monte and I talked about this a couple of years ago (wow - it's been that long?) I thought the lcVCS idea sounded good if it would integrate well with the IDE. And since it does, version control really should just be there out of the box, and not as a third-party add-on. > It is probably also worth mentioning that the Business Application > Framework is written entirely in LiveCode. so no real oop then. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From monte at sweattechnologies.com Wed Aug 12 23:33:53 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 13:33:53 +1000 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: <55CC01C9.2030202@ahsoftware.net> References: <55CBB1F6.8020405@fourthworld.com> <42b03c3c9805dc2379d282cefaed3883@livecode.com> <55CC01C9.2030202@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <10EE9AF8-E6CD-4774-818A-00A019271ADA@sweattechnologies.com> The engine level UUIDs would help a lot to ensure new objects get UUIDs particularly after copy, clone etc. It's not critical the widget stud is. Sent from my iPhone > On 13 Aug 2015, at 12:32 pm, Mark Wieder wrote: > > Right. I thought lcVCS was basically as far as we could take this, given the team's resistance to implementing uuid object ids. From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Wed Aug 12 23:43:37 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 20:43:37 -0700 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: <55CBBA3E.6000301@gmail.com> References: <55CBB472.3000300@gmail.com> <55CBB8AA.4030109@fourthworld.com> <55CBBA3E.6000301@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55CC1269.1090105@ahsoftware.net> On 08/12/2015 02:27 PM, Richmond wrote: > However, I do think that the person who said "Good luck list/livecode > community, I'll see you later." is not helping at all. > > That is just negative flack that does not lead anywhere. Agreed, although I have to admit I understand and have been tending in that direction myself lately. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Wed Aug 12 23:55:19 2015 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 23:55:19 -0400 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: <61E620A3-6996-4BD5-9014-FEAE8012774B@netrin.com> References: <61E620A3-6996-4BD5-9014-FEAE8012774B@netrin.com> Message-ID: <009601d0d57b$df675810$9e360830$@net> +1 Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lambert Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2015 9:08 PM To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Subject: Re: Business Application Framework RichardG wrote: > I'm not on any payroll but my own; I am not an employee of LiveCode > Ltd. My role is as a volunteer, and focused solely on fostering the > Community Edition through open source process. I and surely many are most grateful for your superb service to our LiveCode community. Thank You! Jim Lambert _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Thu Aug 13 00:02:01 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 21:02:01 -0700 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: <55CB7BDF.6040509@hyperactivesw.com> References: <6D289659C63D4FB087F9F3DCFAD44B48@GATEWAY> <55CB6E0C.4030503@gmail.com> <55CB7BDF.6040509@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <55CC16B9.8040606@ahsoftware.net> On 08/12/2015 10:01 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > First, they are no longer "Runtime Revolution" or "RunRev", they are > "LiveCode" and have legally changed the company name. I don't think that's correct. The legal documents all say Runtime Revolution, Ltd. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Thu Aug 13 02:02:05 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 09:02:05 +0300 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: <55CC16B9.8040606@ahsoftware.net> References: <6D289659C63D4FB087F9F3DCFAD44B48@GATEWAY> <55CB6E0C.4030503@gmail.com> <55CB7BDF.6040509@hyperactivesw.com> <55CC16B9.8040606@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <55CC32DD.7050103@gmail.com> On 13/08/15 07:02, Mark Wieder wrote: > On 08/12/2015 10:01 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > >> First, they are no longer "Runtime Revolution" or "RunRev", they are >> "LiveCode" and have legally changed the company name. > > I don't think that's correct. > The legal documents all say Runtime Revolution, Ltd. > I don't see why this is important; it is just a distraction from other more serious questions. "The artist formerly known as Prince" was just the same when he was 'Prince' and when he was 'Squiggle': and his music was still great/awful regardless of which name he was using. Richmond. From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Aug 13 02:32:10 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 01:32:10 -0500 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: <42b03c3c9805dc2379d282cefaed3883@livecode.com> References: <55CBB1F6.8020405@fourthworld.com> <42b03c3c9805dc2379d282cefaed3883@livecode.com> Message-ID: <55CC39EA.6020201@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/12/2015 4:35 PM, Peter TB Brett wrote: > ## Business Application Framework != version control for stacks > > In the meantime, one of our developers explored an alternative approach > to storing apps in version control. It becomes much easier when you > constrain users to write and design their programs in a **totally** > different way to traditional LiveCode apps. That's the Business > Application Framework. It's a completely new approach to LiveCode > version control, in that it doesn't even attempt to solve the problem of > applying version control to LiveCode stacks. Thanks for being on the list and for posting this, it clarifies things considerably. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From mark at livecode.com Thu Aug 13 03:07:06 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 09:07:06 +0200 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: References: <55CBB1F6.8020405@fourthworld.com> <42b03c3c9805dc2379d282cefaed3883@livecode.com> Message-ID: <844141d8b3533c6e5b4223cdee9663da@livecode.com> On 2015-08-12 23:57, Monte Goulding wrote: > Thanks for the details Peter. I had thought the BAF was a product of > your work on the file format. I wonder if the current situation > warrants a further investigation into the things that would assist my > script based solution? Object UUIDs and more support for working out > widget metadata without depending on ide code. There are two PRs pending (should get into 8 DP3) for widget support... The ability to export / import a widget's state array and a 'is really' operator. The latter let's you find out the precise type of a value, which is important for encoding in JSON in 7 onwards (since you can't tell the difference between binary strings and text strings, or numbers and strings in LCS due to auto-conversion). The PRs are: https://github.com/runrev/livecode/pull/2348 https://github.com/runrev/livecode/pull/2345 These should be sufficient to enable you to add widget export to lcVCS without having to talk to the IDE. As I said way back when, I'm not averse to Object UUIDs being added as metadata for the purposes of VCS (i.e. sideline data in objects). I'm still yet to be persuaded that replacing 'ids' with them is worthwhile as I think the problems being tried to solve by doing that are better solved in a different way (in particular augment properties in engine objects which take object id's to take stack / object name pairs). Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From mark at livecode.com Thu Aug 13 03:48:19 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 09:48:19 +0200 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: <42b03c3c9805dc2379d282cefaed3883@livecode.com> References: <55CBB1F6.8020405@fourthworld.com> <42b03c3c9805dc2379d282cefaed3883@livecode.com> Message-ID: <0774e7c8f4d31e53a4cf090434eb37a5@livecode.com> On 2015-08-12 23:35, Peter TB Brett wrote: > On 2015-08-12 22:52, Richard Gaskin wrote: > >> Now that we're talking about a much broader scope, and especially >> given the central role of VCS in fostering healthy open source work, >> my opinion is now more open than before, and somewhat undecided. >> >> If it turns out that we've had a great open source option the whole >> time and just never realized it, the situation is somewhat mitigated. Unfortunately this is not entirely true - lcVCS and similar approaches unfortunately suffer some serious flaws in day-to-day use. >> I don't know if lcVCS is available under GPL-compatible license, and >> if so that would seem a good option. But then again, if it's a good >> option why would LiveCode Ltd undertake the non-trivial expense of >> writing a completely different tool? The features required by lcVCS (i.e. exporting a stack in an array, and then storing on disk as an exploded format) seemed like very sensible engine features. i.e. They add something to the language beyond just giving you something which can be checked into VCS such as Git. I've always wanted to generalize the stackfile import/export process in the engine for a variety of reasons, and this was a good first step towards doing so. (Note that lcVCS could have been rehosted to use the import/export features that we were adding in the engine - it is only one piece of the VCS puzzle). > It turned out to be impractical to do this any better than lcVCS does, > and lcVCS is already free software that any of our users can use, so > my project got shelved around Christmas 2014 [1]. If you want to see > where I got to, go and look at: There was actually two reasons the project was shelved (the features are still 'useful' and I'm sure we will return to them at some point - if nothing else to abstract stack loading / saving in a way which makes it easy to store stacks in a variety of ways). The first reason was resources - we needed Peter's considerable skills elsewhere. In particular, helping out with LCB and the widget infrastructure... That project was seen as considerably more important to get done sooner as without the basics done and working, nobody could actually start writing widgets and such to validate the approach. So, Peter was moved to work on LCB and related aspects and as a result we got a version we could use considerably sooner than we would have otherwise. Of course, one could ask why VCS was considered to be less important and thus mean this shelving was considered. This is reason two. The reality is that lcVCS and our similar solution do not meet the goals that are required of collaborative development using VCS. Sorry. In order to do collaborative development using VCS it is not enough just to be able to put your files into git in a way where most merge conflicts can be mitigated (i.e. automatically resolved in a correct fashion). The format in which you see the files on git and, most importantly, as PRs have to be human-readable. This is where UUID based on-disk formats fail - given a PR and its patch it is exceptionally difficult to work out in which objects the changes are being made. Given that LiveCode allows (and indeeds encourages you!) to spread code out at various levels and in various objects - this is a killer. It means that, for all intents and purposes, doing code reviews on PRs that are submitted to GitHub is exceptionally difficult, if not impossible as you have to do significant amounts of clicking and prodding to find out which objects changes are being applied to. This flaw was actually pointed out by an engineer working on a project where they had attempted to use lcVCS when he was reviewing our version of the on-disk format. As the number of people on a project grows, there becomes even greater need for code reviews and management of the flow of patches and thus visibility and introspection on the patches by a human becomes even more important. (By the way it isn't just code reviews where this visibility of changes is exceptionally important - its also important when looking back through history in the commit logs to try and find where issues are introduced and other quality related issues). One of the goals of lcVCS-like solutions is to integrate with systems such as GitHub so that people can collaborate on LiveCode projects in the same way as they do for other languages, when you come to this point it suggests that either (1) there is a flaw in the idea of using a system such as GitHub as a way to VCS LiveCode stacks or (2) the current way LiveCode programs are written is hugely dVCS-averse (at least for modern software engineering workflows). We considered many options here. There was a general distaste for all of them - one would be to require unique object tags for objects in a stack to ensure you *can* see what objects are being patched. However, this puts a huge constraint on moving existing projects into the system, and also a requirement that you code in a slightly different way (it also considerably increases the possibility of difficult to resolve merge cases in various places, unless you rethink the stack folder structure considerably and I'm not sure we actually came up with a reliable way). Another was to produce a web 'front' for GitHub that shows you these things in a more friendly way. This was considered to be contrary the original goals of the project - i.e. if we have to go to the effort of producing a web front end to GitHub so that people can use GitHub for LiveCode projects, then why are we trying to contort things into GitHub style code repos in the first place. Perhaps someone, at some point, will have a bright idea about how to make general stackfiles work well collaboratively in GitHub and similar systems. That will mean that you can follow a standard, quality, engineering workflow for LiveCode projects without having to put constraints on the way you write LiveCode projects. However, with the lack of such a solution (and a lack of time to further investigate potential options - it is, it would seem, a very difficult problem), we turned the problem upside down. Rather than ask "how can we produce a system which allows dVCS on arbitrary LiveCode projects?", we asked "What constraints would need to be put on a LiveCode project to allow it to be used in dVCS in a way a group of engineers can work together on a project in a standard engineering workflow?". Ultimately that is what produced the precursor to the BAF. This was a bespoke solution for a specific project, which I then took and generalized using the insight I had developed working with Peter to develop our variant of the lcVCS on-disk format). Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From peter.brett at livecode.com Thu Aug 13 03:50:03 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 09:50:03 +0200 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: <844141d8b3533c6e5b4223cdee9663da@livecode.com> References: <55CBB1F6.8020405@fourthworld.com> <42b03c3c9805dc2379d282cefaed3883@livecode.com> <844141d8b3533c6e5b4223cdee9663da@livecode.com> Message-ID: On 2015-08-13 09:07, Mark Waddingham wrote: > On 2015-08-12 23:57, Monte Goulding wrote: > > As I said way back when, I'm not averse to Object UUIDs being added as > metadata for the purposes of VCS (i.e. sideline data in objects). I'm > still yet to be persuaded that replacing 'ids' with them is worthwhile > as I think the problems being tried to solve by doing that are better > solved in a different way (in particular augment properties in engine > objects which take object id's to take stack / object name pairs). Highly relevant: I've already done most of the work required by the VCS use case. See . Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Engine Development Team From t.heaford at icloud.com Thu Aug 13 04:00:09 2015 From: t.heaford at icloud.com (Terence Heaford) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 09:00:09 +0100 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: <844141d8b3533c6e5b4223cdee9663da@livecode.com> References: <55CBB1F6.8020405@fourthworld.com> <42b03c3c9805dc2379d282cefaed3883@livecode.com> <844141d8b3533c6e5b4223cdee9663da@livecode.com> Message-ID: <08D58012-1582-4DCC-87F0-22C519D93AA7@icloud.com> The view of an Open Source User follows: I have come to LiveCode from SuperCard on the Mac and was attracted by the KickStarter campaign which would provide LC as Open Source. I contributed the minimum amount as LC is for my personnel use and I doubted the sincerity at the time. I did consider LC earlier than this but the product for me did not perform as well as SuperCard and I could not justify a licence, so Open Source was eventually the way in. I have also played with XOJO and obtained a license cheaply through a deal but that has now expired although the programme still works AND STILL COMPILES. When the XOJO licence expired I seriously considered renewing it because at I think 99$ for a Mac only licence, was reasonable value. I cannot justify the serious outlay for an Indie Licence in LC (annual) which would revert back to a potentially crippled Open Source version at expiry of the Licence. How many potential customers like me are LC missing out on? Financially I do not feel the pain because I only contributed a small amount but I do still feel cheated. I feel: The LC Management had this plan all along and deliberate kept it to themselves during the KickStarter Campaign. They would not have reached their goal if they had exposed their full plan during the KickStarter Campaign. If I was one of those who contributed major financial outlay to the KickStarter Campaign as a believer in Open Source I would be feeling really p*****d with LC. LC are not really believers in Open Source, it was just a way to obtain money to keep the business going. That?s why I only contributed the minimum amount. I just had a feeling about it having watched LC from afar with their struggles with different licensing arrangements in the past. LC intend to limit the objects in LC Open Source and sell the others add add-ons. I am still not sure how this sits with Open Source? I believe the licence for businesses earning above an amount should be sufficient unless it?s these businesses who are cheating LC? LC will not gain more Licensees via. the Open Source route as people will not try LC if it is seen as crippled when compared to paid. Do LC now intend to provide a trial version of the paid LC? If I am typical of an Open Source user then LC will not gain anything rather the opposite. Because of this I am considering getting out altogether. They may have got something, if a cheaper licence was available but now they have no chance because If this comes to pass then I feel they are not trustworthy now or going forward. Continually changing the licensing arrangements for a product also leaves a potential licensee with a nagging doubt about the viability of the company, as to me it points to a company wrestling with ways to make more money to keep the business going. How long is acceptable before LC switches from Open Source to a paid only model? With perhaps a no longer updated Open Source LC available but kicked into the long grass. Anyway thats my 5p?s worth. I now await to be slammed by RG. I won?t take it seriously. All the best (and I mean it) Terry From tfabacher at gmail.com Thu Aug 13 04:11:46 2015 From: tfabacher at gmail.com (Todd Fabacher) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 04:11:46 -0400 Subject: lcVCS in the LC Forums Message-ID: Hi Monte, If you are looking for tech and money support then lets talk, I am happy to help with both. I agree with Richard that this is HUGE and needs to be available. --Todd From mickclns at mac.com Thu Aug 13 04:38:28 2015 From: mickclns at mac.com (Mick Collins) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 04:38:28 -0400 Subject: Describing LiveCode In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8D6456C0-4757-472F-9C5C-A14B414D85B6@mac.com> Just my 2 cents worth: When I was studying math as an undergraduate and as a graduate student, many of the classes were taught by the (R. L.) Moore Method. In this method the professor gives axioms, definitions and just the statements of the theorems. The students have to prove the theorems themselves. The class time is nearly all spent with students presenting their proofs (lower (higher) ability students present the more easy (difficult) theorems, sometimes more than one proof presented so students see them from different angles). The students get a very deep understanding of the ideas involved because they?ve had to look at them from a lot of different angles and see what will work. It can be easily seen who is working at it and who not (thus providing some kind of evidence for a grade, although in our classes, very few slacked off AT ALL). My suggestion is a variation on this method for ?teaching" Livecode. Students would be assigned several tiny projects at a time with maybe one or two new mini-concepts per project, having been given what the GUI for the project looks/operates like and a few words to look up in the dictionary and other places. In the Moore method, there are no textbooks nor outward-directed research of any kind ? that, of course, wouldn?t work here because of the difference between computers and mathematics, but limits can be set so that they are largely doing it on their own. There are many variations that could add to the utility, for instance working in pairs, where one works on researching the new ideas, the other constructing the GUI and scripting, alternating from project to project. From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Aug 13 04:39:32 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 01:39:32 -0700 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: <08D58012-1582-4DCC-87F0-22C519D93AA7@icloud.com> References: <08D58012-1582-4DCC-87F0-22C519D93AA7@icloud.com> Message-ID: <55CC57C4.2080308@fourthworld.com> Terence Heaford wrote: > The view of an Open Source User follows: ... > I cannot justify the serious outlay for an Indie Licence in LC As an open source user, why would you even consider the proprietary license? > I now await to be slammed by RG. I won?t take it seriously. Who's slamming who there? What compels you to keep writing like that? -- Richard Gaskin LiveCode Community Manager richard at livecode.org From bogdanoff at me.com Thu Aug 13 05:24:33 2015 From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 02:24:33 -0700 Subject: Restore corrupted stack Message-ID: Hi, Is there a way to restore a corrupted stack (that is also encrypted)? I was working in LC 7.1 dp 1 and chose to not save a stack, quit, reopened and got the message. On my Mac the TimeMachine backups from earlier in the evening are also reporting as corrupted. I had also saved a version from the Finder without quitting the program. Peter Bogdanoff UCLA From monte at sweattechnologies.com Thu Aug 13 05:45:37 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 19:45:37 +1000 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: References: <55CBB1F6.8020405@fourthworld.com> <42b03c3c9805dc2379d282cefaed3883@livecode.com> <844141d8b3533c6e5b4223cdee9663da@livecode.com> Message-ID: > On 13 Aug 2015, at 5:50 pm, Peter TB Brett wrote: > > On 2015-08-13 09:07, Mark Waddingham wrote: >> On 2015-08-12 23:57, Monte Goulding wrote: >> As I said way back when, I'm not averse to Object UUIDs being added as >> metadata for the purposes of VCS (i.e. sideline data in objects). I'm >> still yet to be persuaded that replacing 'ids' with them is worthwhile >> as I think the problems being tried to solve by doing that are better >> solved in a different way (in particular augment properties in engine >> objects which take object id's to take stack / object name pairs). > > Highly relevant: I've already done most of the work required by the VCS use case. See . Thanks Peter! I?ll check it out tonight. From monte at sweattechnologies.com Thu Aug 13 05:54:10 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 19:54:10 +1000 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: <0774e7c8f4d31e53a4cf090434eb37a5@livecode.com> References: <55CBB1F6.8020405@fourthworld.com> <42b03c3c9805dc2379d282cefaed3883@livecode.com> <0774e7c8f4d31e53a4cf090434eb37a5@livecode.com> Message-ID: <80CD8DB6-1D5A-483A-A75E-BAD029505D37@sweattechnologies.com> > On 13 Aug 2015, at 5:48 pm, Mark Waddingham wrote: > > This is where UUID based on-disk formats fail - given a PR and its patch it is exceptionally difficult to work out in which objects the changes are being made. Given that LiveCode allows (and indeeds encourages you!) to spread code out at various levels and in various objects - this is a killer. I?m not convinced it?s a killer. I just think it needs some special tools. It really wouldn?t be that hard to build a third party code review web app that integrated with GitHub via service hooks. Such a beast would know the export stack file format and present the objects in the same way the project browser does with visual representations etc. Having said that I would still recommend putting as much code as possible in scriptified stacks. Cheers Monte From monte at sweattechnologies.com Thu Aug 13 06:14:49 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 20:14:49 +1000 Subject: lcVCS in the LC Forums In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Todd There?s a bit of a story here. Towards the end of 2013 I lined up with Kevin to sell him the IP for $10k so lcVCS and my IDE integration could be rolled into the IDE. After some discussions I managed to convince him that it should be in both community and commercial IDEs. Then in January 2014 we had a stillborn baby and the next 6 months went down the tube. I did the bare minimum to keep my clients ticking over and didn?t do anything about lcVCS for Kevin. So later that year they contacted me saying they would do their own in-house. Now it appears they half did it and then dropped it? So my position is I?m now more aware that I was taking on too much work for little return in the LC community (I started lcVCS just to get it done not to build and sell to Kevin) and while I enjoy that I really need to be either earning money or spending time with the family these days. At least most of the time. I usually put in more to mergExt than I get out? So there you have it. I?d love to pick it up again and run with it but at least partial funding probably needs to be in place before I can do that. If you?re keen to help with that then I?m keen too ;-) Cheers Monte > On 13 Aug 2015, at 6:11 pm, Todd Fabacher wrote: > > Hi Monte, > > If you are looking for tech and money support then lets talk, I am happy to > help with both. I agree with Richard that this is HUGE and needs to be > available. > > --Todd > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From monte at sweattechnologies.com Thu Aug 13 06:16:47 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 20:16:47 +1000 Subject: lcVCS in the LC Forums In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <246C8CFC-3C10-44AB-BA81-71F3699E2855@sweattechnologies.com> Woah? folks I?m a bit tired and forgot to check if that was a private email? sorry for airing my dirty laundry > On 13 Aug 2015, at 8:14 pm, Monte Goulding wrote: > > Hi Todd > > There?s a bit of a story here. Towards the end of 2013 I lined up with Kevin to sell him the IP for $10k so lcVCS and my IDE integration could be rolled into the IDE. After some discussions I managed to convince him that it should be in both community and commercial IDEs. Then in January 2014 we had a stillborn baby and the next 6 months went down the tube. I did the bare minimum to keep my clients ticking over and didn?t do anything about lcVCS for Kevin. So later that year they contacted me saying they would do their own in-house. Now it appears they half did it and then dropped it? > > So my position is I?m now more aware that I was taking on too much work for little return in the LC community (I started lcVCS just to get it done not to build and sell to Kevin) and while I enjoy that I really need to be either earning money or spending time with the family these days. At least most of the time. I usually put in more to mergExt than I get out? So there you have it. I?d love to pick it up again and run with it but at least partial funding probably needs to be in place before I can do that. If you?re keen to help with that then I?m keen too ;-) > > Cheers > > Monte >> On 13 Aug 2015, at 6:11 pm, Todd Fabacher wrote: >> >> Hi Monte, >> >> If you are looking for tech and money support then lets talk, I am happy to >> help with both. I agree with Richard that this is HUGE and needs to be >> available. >> >> --Todd >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Thu Aug 13 06:20:13 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 13:20:13 +0300 Subject: lcVCS in the LC Forums In-Reply-To: <246C8CFC-3C10-44AB-BA81-71F3699E2855@sweattechnologies.com> References: <246C8CFC-3C10-44AB-BA81-71F3699E2855@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <55CC6F5D.3080807@gmail.com> On 13/08/15 13:16, Monte Goulding wrote: > Woah? folks I?m a bit tired and forgot to check if that was a private email? sorry for airing my dirty laundry Hey: we all have dirty laundry of some sort, and we all manage to leak it out, unwittingly, onto the internet sooner or later - and yours is not nearly as dirty as some I have seen. It also proves interesting reading :) Richmond. I would also like to say how much I feel for you over your bereavement. > >> On 13 Aug 2015, at 8:14 pm, Monte Goulding wrote: >> >> Hi Todd >> >> There?s a bit of a story here. Towards the end of 2013 I lined up with Kevin to sell him the IP for $10k so lcVCS and my IDE integration could be rolled into the IDE. After some discussions I managed to convince him that it should be in both community and commercial IDEs. Then in January 2014 we had a stillborn baby and the next 6 months went down the tube. I did the bare minimum to keep my clients ticking over and didn?t do anything about lcVCS for Kevin. So later that year they contacted me saying they would do their own in-house. Now it appears they half did it and then dropped it? >> >> So my position is I?m now more aware that I was taking on too much work for little return in the LC community (I started lcVCS just to get it done not to build and sell to Kevin) and while I enjoy that I really need to be either earning money or spending time with the family these days. At least most of the time. I usually put in more to mergExt than I get out? So there you have it. I?d love to pick it up again and run with it but at least partial funding probably needs to be in place before I can do that. If you?re keen to help with that then I?m keen too ;-) >> >> Cheers >> >> Monte >>> On 13 Aug 2015, at 6:11 pm, Todd Fabacher wrote: >>> >>> Hi Monte, >>> >>> If you are looking for tech and money support then lets talk, I am happy to >>> help with both. I agree with Richard that this is HUGE and needs to be >>> available. >>> >>> --Todd >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at smarttsoftware.co.uk Thu Aug 13 06:21:56 2015 From: paul at smarttsoftware.co.uk (Paul Richards) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 10:21:56 +0000 Subject: lcVCS in the LC Forums In-Reply-To: <55CC6F5D.3080807@gmail.com> References: <246C8CFC-3C10-44AB-BA81-71F3699E2855@sweattechnologies.com> <55CC6F5D.3080807@gmail.com> Message-ID: + 1 ! I also think there might be a few more on here that would be willing to contribute to the lcVCS ! -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Richmond Sent: 13 August 2015 11:20 To: How to use LiveCode Subject: Re: lcVCS in the LC Forums On 13/08/15 13:16, Monte Goulding wrote: > Woah? folks I?m a bit tired and forgot to check if that was a private > email? sorry for airing my dirty laundry Hey: we all have dirty laundry of some sort, and we all manage to leak it out, unwittingly, onto the internet sooner or later - and yours is not nearly as dirty as some I have seen. It also proves interesting reading :) Richmond. I would also like to say how much I feel for you over your bereavement. > >> On 13 Aug 2015, at 8:14 pm, Monte Goulding wrote: >> >> Hi Todd >> >> There?s a bit of a story here. Towards the end of 2013 I lined up >> with Kevin to sell him the IP for $10k so lcVCS and my IDE >> integration could be rolled into the IDE. After some discussions I >> managed to convince him that it should be in both community and >> commercial IDEs. Then in January 2014 we had a stillborn baby and the >> next 6 months went down the tube. I did the bare minimum to keep my >> clients ticking over and didn?t do anything about lcVCS for Kevin. So >> later that year they contacted me saying they would do their own >> in-house. Now it appears they half did it and then dropped it? >> >> So my position is I?m now more aware that I was taking on too much >> work for little return in the LC community (I started lcVCS just to >> get it done not to build and sell to Kevin) and while I enjoy that I >> really need to be either earning money or spending time with the >> family these days. At least most of the time. I usually put in more >> to mergExt than I get out? So there you have it. I?d love to pick it >> up again and run with it but at least partial funding probably needs >> to be in place before I can do that. If you?re keen to help with that >> then I?m keen too ;-) >> >> Cheers >> >> Monte >>> On 13 Aug 2015, at 6:11 pm, Todd Fabacher wrote: >>> >>> Hi Monte, >>> >>> If you are looking for tech and money support then lets talk, I am >>> happy to help with both. I agree with Richard that this is HUGE and >>> needs to be available. >>> >>> --Todd >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From phil at liverpool.ac.uk Thu Aug 13 06:26:27 2015 From: phil at liverpool.ac.uk (Phil Jimmieson) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 11:26:27 +0100 Subject: lcVCS in the LC Forums In-Reply-To: References: <246C8CFC-3C10-44AB-BA81-71F3699E2855@sweattechnologies.com> <55CC6F5D.3080807@gmail.com> Message-ID: <740D5FB8-2E93-4E98-8ACB-A04F57590136@liverpool.ac.uk> How about a Kickstarter effort for it? (or something similar) On 13 Aug 2015, at 11:21, Paul Richards wrote: > + 1 ! > > I also think there might be a few more on here that would be willing to contribute to the lcVCS ! > > -----Original Message----- > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Richmond > Sent: 13 August 2015 11:20 > To: How to use LiveCode > Subject: Re: lcVCS in the LC Forums > > On 13/08/15 13:16, Monte Goulding wrote: >> Woah? folks I?m a bit tired and forgot to check if that was a private >> email? sorry for airing my dirty laundry > > Hey: we all have dirty laundry of some sort, and we all manage to leak it out, unwittingly, onto the internet sooner or later - and yours is not nearly as dirty as some I have seen. > > It also proves interesting reading :) > > Richmond. > > I would also like to say how much I feel for you over your bereavement. > >> >>> On 13 Aug 2015, at 8:14 pm, Monte Goulding wrote: >>> >>> Hi Todd >>> >>> There?s a bit of a story here. Towards the end of 2013 I lined up >>> with Kevin to sell him the IP for $10k so lcVCS and my IDE >>> integration could be rolled into the IDE. After some discussions I >>> managed to convince him that it should be in both community and >>> commercial IDEs. Then in January 2014 we had a stillborn baby and the >>> next 6 months went down the tube. I did the bare minimum to keep my >>> clients ticking over and didn?t do anything about lcVCS for Kevin. So >>> later that year they contacted me saying they would do their own >>> in-house. Now it appears they half did it and then dropped it? >>> >>> So my position is I?m now more aware that I was taking on too much >>> work for little return in the LC community (I started lcVCS just to >>> get it done not to build and sell to Kevin) and while I enjoy that I >>> really need to be either earning money or spending time with the >>> family these days. At least most of the time. I usually put in more >>> to mergExt than I get out? So there you have it. I?d love to pick it >>> up again and run with it but at least partial funding probably needs >>> to be in place before I can do that. If you?re keen to help with that >>> then I?m keen too ;-) >>> >>> Cheers >>> >>> Monte >>>> On 13 Aug 2015, at 6:11 pm, Todd Fabacher wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Monte, >>>> >>>> If you are looking for tech and money support then lets talk, I am >>>> happy to help with both. I agree with Richard that this is HUGE and >>>> needs to be available. >>>> >>>> --Todd >>>> _______________________________________________ -- Phil Jimmieson phil at liverpool.ac.uk (UK) 0151 795 4236 Computer Science Dept., Liverpool University, Ashton Building, Ashton Street Liverpool L69 3BX http://www.csc.liv.ac.uk/~phil/ I used to sit on a special medical board... ...but now I use this ointment. From t.heaford at icloud.com Thu Aug 13 06:35:31 2015 From: t.heaford at icloud.com (Terence Heaford) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 11:35:31 +0100 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: <55CC57C4.2080308@fourthworld.com> References: <08D58012-1582-4DCC-87F0-22C519D93AA7@icloud.com> <55CC57C4.2080308@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: > On 13 Aug 2015, at 09:39, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > As an open source user, why would you even consider the proprietary license? Because if LC Open Source is limited in some way there may be something available in the paid product I would like to incorporate in an Open Source stack but cannot because it is has been crippled. As has been suggested by LC maybe I could implement it myself but as suggested it seems some have been naive in thinking that LC will keep feature parity between the Open Source and Paid versions. It has also been suggested that if it had not been for those that supported the Open Source version then the Paid version would no longer exist and there would be no Business Application Framework. The conclusion could be that it?s the Business User who is benefiting from the contributions of the Open Source backer and it?s the Open Source backer who is going to be penalised now and in the future. All the best Terry From t.heaford at icloud.com Thu Aug 13 06:40:44 2015 From: t.heaford at icloud.com (Terence Heaford) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 11:40:44 +0100 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: <55CC57C4.2080308@fourthworld.com> References: <08D58012-1582-4DCC-87F0-22C519D93AA7@icloud.com> <55CC57C4.2080308@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: > On 13 Aug 2015, at 09:39, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > What compels you to keep writing like that? This is how I feel as an Open Source backer, let down. Now if I had been an open Source backer who laid out thousands for the principal of Open Source, let down would not begin to cover it. Many years of working in an environment far more confrontational than Software development has perhaps warped my senses somewhat but my concerns, to me, do seem to be materialising, albeit slowly. It feels like the drip, drip of a change that had been planned well in advance. All the best Terry From monte at sweattechnologies.com Thu Aug 13 06:43:55 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 20:43:55 +1000 Subject: lcVCS in the LC Forums In-Reply-To: <55CC6F5D.3080807@gmail.com> References: <246C8CFC-3C10-44AB-BA81-71F3699E2855@sweattechnologies.com> <55CC6F5D.3080807@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4EFAC605-85E6-4761-ABE2-08E97F87875F@sweattechnologies.com> > On 13 Aug 2015, at 8:20 pm, Richmond wrote: > > Hey: we all have dirty laundry of some sort, and we all manage to leak it out, unwittingly, onto the internet sooner > or later - and yours is not nearly as dirty as some I have seen. > > It also proves interesting reading :) And I forgot to snip it too so now it?s getting reposted ;-) ? one of the kids is sick and I only got a few hours sleep last night as a result.. That?s my story and I?m sticking to it. > > Richmond. > > I would also like to say how much I feel for you over your bereavement. Thanks Richmond From mark at livecode.com Thu Aug 13 06:45:18 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 12:45:18 +0200 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: <80CD8DB6-1D5A-483A-A75E-BAD029505D37@sweattechnologies.com> References: <55CBB1F6.8020405@fourthworld.com> <42b03c3c9805dc2379d282cefaed3883@livecode.com> <0774e7c8f4d31e53a4cf090434eb37a5@livecode.com> <80CD8DB6-1D5A-483A-A75E-BAD029505D37@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: > I?m not convinced it?s a killer. I just think it needs some special > tools. It really wouldn?t be that hard to build a third party code > review web app that integrated with GitHub via service hooks. Such a > beast would know the export stack file format and present the objects > in the same way the project browser does with visual representations > etc. To be fair it is a killer if you do not have such a front-end and want to have multiple people working in a rigorous way on a single LiveCode project ;) As I said, that option was discussed and I (personally) didn't think it too bad an idea in principal - but it wasn't considered a viable option at the time (it added another required layer to the system in order to ensure it met the requirements we had of it) and it did suggest that perhaps reconsidering the approach was the best way forward to producing a fully cohesive solution. It essentially reduces the git/github choice to being a storage backend which isn't really something for humans to look at. Our feeling at the time was that we really wanted a solution which was entirely 'natural' in GitHub. Of course hindsight is 20/20 and perhaps the front-ending should be revisited to see how integrated and natural it could be made. GitHub is obviously an important and powerful force in the world of modern software development (whether Open or Closed), but we have to ensure that LiveCode's use of it does not seem 'perverse' - otherwise it just gives another reason for people not to consider LiveCode. (Given that LiveCode already 'goes against the grain' in a number of ways, we don't really want to make the job any harder!). From the point of view of the work Peter did put into VCS, none of it has been wasted. The 'stackdir' format we came up with is perhaps not the important point (I'm sure Monte, Peter and I could spend many hours finessing such a format to ensure it is bomb-proof, mitigates merge conflicts as much as possible and is actually tractable on modern FSs - Windows being a bit of a bear) - at the end of the day it just an on-disk representation of an in-memory data structure. From an engine perspective it is probably the underlying 'stackarr' encode/decode which is the critical piece which has much wider applicability and the bit which would be high on the list to finish first. It does for stacks and objects the same thing the 'styledText' array format does for fields - it allows you to naturally manipulate the structure of stacks using arrays in script in a very direct way. Much more easily then having to introspect directly on live objects and the lcVCS or stackdir import/export could be implemented in script based upon it. The 'stackarr' concept has benefits elsewhere too - for example the project browser has to extract the information describing an object to do its job, as does the property inspector; and I know there are lots of tools out there which also replicate exactly the same process in one way or another (lcVCS just being one example). Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From skiplondon at gmail.com Thu Aug 13 06:50:33 2015 From: skiplondon at gmail.com (Skip Kimpel) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 06:50:33 -0400 Subject: lcVCS in the LC Forums In-Reply-To: References: <246C8CFC-3C10-44AB-BA81-71F3699E2855@sweattechnologies.com> <55CC6F5D.3080807@gmail.com> Message-ID: <78E65182-83D8-4BF0-B9C1-EE4090F4F2B1@gmail.com> +1 for contribution. This has been one of my sticking points over the years and would love to see a fully developed solution to the issue as hand. Thanks again, Monte, for everything that you do! SKIP > On Aug 13, 2015, at 6:21 AM, Paul Richards wrote: > > + 1 ! > > I also think there might be a few more on here that would be willing to contribute to the lcVCS ! > > -----Original Message----- > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Richmond > Sent: 13 August 2015 11:20 > To: How to use LiveCode > Subject: Re: lcVCS in the LC Forums > >> On 13/08/15 13:16, Monte Goulding wrote: >> Woah? folks I?m a bit tired and forgot to check if that was a private >> email? sorry for airing my dirty laundry > > Hey: we all have dirty laundry of some sort, and we all manage to leak it out, unwittingly, onto the internet sooner or later - and yours is not nearly as dirty as some I have seen. > > It also proves interesting reading :) > > Richmond. > > I would also like to say how much I feel for you over your bereavement. > >> >>> On 13 Aug 2015, at 8:14 pm, Monte Goulding wrote: >>> >>> Hi Todd >>> >>> There?s a bit of a story here. Towards the end of 2013 I lined up >>> with Kevin to sell him the IP for $10k so lcVCS and my IDE >>> integration could be rolled into the IDE. After some discussions I >>> managed to convince him that it should be in both community and >>> commercial IDEs. Then in January 2014 we had a stillborn baby and the >>> next 6 months went down the tube. I did the bare minimum to keep my >>> clients ticking over and didn?t do anything about lcVCS for Kevin. So >>> later that year they contacted me saying they would do their own >>> in-house. Now it appears they half did it and then dropped it? >>> >>> So my position is I?m now more aware that I was taking on too much >>> work for little return in the LC community (I started lcVCS just to >>> get it done not to build and sell to Kevin) and while I enjoy that I >>> really need to be either earning money or spending time with the >>> family these days. At least most of the time. I usually put in more >>> to mergExt than I get out? So there you have it. I?d love to pick it >>> up again and run with it but at least partial funding probably needs >>> to be in place before I can do that. If you?re keen to help with that >>> then I?m keen too ;-) >>> >>> Cheers >>> >>> Monte >>>> On 13 Aug 2015, at 6:11 pm, Todd Fabacher wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Monte, >>>> >>>> If you are looking for tech and money support then lets talk, I am >>>> happy to help with both. I agree with Richard that this is HUGE and >>>> needs to be available. >>>> >>>> --Todd >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From monte at sweattechnologies.com Thu Aug 13 07:00:10 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 21:00:10 +1000 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: References: <55CBB1F6.8020405@fourthworld.com> <42b03c3c9805dc2379d282cefaed3883@livecode.com> <0774e7c8f4d31e53a4cf090434eb37a5@livecode.com> <80CD8DB6-1D5A-483A-A75E-BAD029505D37@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <980026A3-93D2-4CA9-9E55-75D0D658EE45@sweattechnologies.com> > To be fair it is a killer if you do not have such a front-end and want to have multiple people working in a rigorous way on a single LiveCode project ;) True but it?s not like there aren?t other funky file formats in GitHub? storyboard, xib etc.. nasty stuff. Keep the UI as code light as possible and the code in nicely named scriptified stacks and it?s reasonable as far as I can tell. You could even put in some commit hooks to enforce a rule on the script length of objects script to force code into these libraries... > > As I said, that option was discussed and I (personally) didn't think it too bad an idea in principal - but it wasn't considered a viable option at the time (it added another required layer to the system in order to ensure it met the requirements we had of it) and it did suggest that perhaps reconsidering the approach was the best way forward to producing a fully cohesive solution. It essentially reduces the git/github choice to being a storage backend which isn't really something for humans to look at. Our feeling at the time was that we really wanted a solution which was entirely 'natural' in GitHub. Is that ever going to happen though? There?s too much intermingled data, script and UI in LC to do that I think. > > > From an engine perspective it is probably the underlying 'stackarr' encode/decode which is the critical piece which has much wider applicability and the bit which would be high on the list to finish first. It does for stacks and objects the same thing the 'styledText' array format does for fields - it allows you to naturally manipulate the structure of stacks using arrays in script in a very direct way. Much more easily then having to introspect directly on live objects and the lcVCS or stackdir import/export could be implemented in script based upon it. The 'stackarr' concept has benefits elsewhere too - for example the project browser has to extract the information describing an object to do its job, as does the property inspector; and I know there are lots of tools out there which also replicate exactly the same process in one way or another (lcVCS just being one example). That sounds good. Whatever works best/fastest. The actual file format is the boring part. It just needs to work whichever format it is. The IDE integration is the fun part. From mark at livecode.com Thu Aug 13 07:09:05 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 13:09:05 +0200 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: <980026A3-93D2-4CA9-9E55-75D0D658EE45@sweattechnologies.com> References: <55CBB1F6.8020405@fourthworld.com> <42b03c3c9805dc2379d282cefaed3883@livecode.com> <0774e7c8f4d31e53a4cf090434eb37a5@livecode.com> <80CD8DB6-1D5A-483A-A75E-BAD029505D37@sweattechnologies.com> <980026A3-93D2-4CA9-9E55-75D0D658EE45@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: > True but it?s not like there aren?t other funky file formats in > GitHub? storyboard, xib etc.. nasty stuff. Keep the UI as code light > as possible and the code in nicely named scriptified stacks and it?s > reasonable as far as I can tell. You could even put in some commit > hooks to enforce a rule on the script length of objects script to > force code into these libraries... That's very true. Indeed, perhaps one could argue that GitHub needs service-hooks which allow customization of merging and diff display. That general feature there would solve the VCS problem in a natural way for a number of types of data which are needed in modern software projects. I suspect it will come in time as, to be fair, the integration abilities have increased a fair bit since we started using it in 2013; and we've used them quite extensively in our Vulcan (CI / Build System) integration so that information about PRs appear directly on the relevant PRs (and shout at you when you've made a mistake!). > Is that ever going to happen though? There?s too much intermingled > data, script and UI in LC to do that I think. I was chatting to Peter about that this morning - he is less optimistic about there being 'natural general solution' than I. He is probably, lamentably, right. Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From monte at sweattechnologies.com Thu Aug 13 07:27:27 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 21:27:27 +1000 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: References: <55CBB1F6.8020405@fourthworld.com> <42b03c3c9805dc2379d282cefaed3883@livecode.com> <0774e7c8f4d31e53a4cf090434eb37a5@livecode.com> <80CD8DB6-1D5A-483A-A75E-BAD029505D37@sweattechnologies.com> <980026A3-93D2-4CA9-9E55-75D0D658EE45@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <2546A69E-E52F-4F00-83EF-64E4719DED49@sweattechnologies.com> > On 13 Aug 2015, at 9:09 pm, Mark Waddingham wrote: > >> True but it?s not like there aren?t other funky file formats in >> GitHub? storyboard, xib etc.. nasty stuff. Keep the UI as code light >> as possible and the code in nicely named scriptified stacks and it?s >> reasonable as far as I can tell. You could even put in some commit >> hooks to enforce a rule on the script length of objects script to >> force code into these libraries... > > That's very true. Indeed, perhaps one could argue that GitHub needs service-hooks which allow customization of merging and diff display. That general feature there would solve the VCS problem in a natural way for a number of types of data which are needed in modern software projects. That would be nice? All we really need is a spot to display some the long name of the object. Getting the long name of an object given an properties or script file is a feature of my CLI. I also have a UI that shows modified objects etc in a tree. That doesn?t help on GitHub though obviously. For a while I was considering seeing how difficult it would be to add a some features for LC to GitLab but it really would be nicer to have a service that could work with any of the hosts. > >> Is that ever going to happen though? There?s too much intermingled >> data, script and UI in LC to do that I think. > > I was chatting to Peter about that this morning - he is less optimistic about there being 'natural general solution' than I. He is probably, lamentably, right. One thing worth considering is as complex widgets develop the number of objects on a stack should reduce dramatically making it much easier to work out what you?re looking at. Combined with scriptified stacks it?s starting to look like a reasonable solution. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Thu Aug 13 08:29:37 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 15:29:37 +0300 Subject: LiveCode platform Message-ID: <55CC8DB1.9000003@gmail.com> Today I had to go and have the oil and filter changed in my car, and as I was waiting I decided to try and install LiveCode 7.0.5 on their public access Windows XP box (which failed), and I came across this: http://www.livecode.com/ And that was interesting as I haven't looked at that page for about 6 months. where it stated: "Programming, Coding or as we like to call it Making Apps, it doesnt have to be complicated. With LiveCode making apps is fast and easy. Build your app with simple easy to learn commands. Drag and drop the most popular app widgets, and then launch your app to all the popular platforms." So: it isn't 'programming', and it isn't 'coding', it's "making apps" . . . well that sorted that one out for me. Anyway I was intrigued by "Drag and drop the most popular app widgets" and wondered where I would find those widgets . . . A little bit further down I found this: "Hello World is the go to first app to make." Which, as its grammar is totally wrong doesn't make any sense at all. [Hey, goes with the lack of apostrophe in the earlier quote.] It would be super if one didn't have to do any 'programming' or an 'coding' and all one had to do was drag widgets onto a palette to end up with an app. But I think this page is a bad case of wishful thinking, bad grammar and a lot of other things that don't really represent LIveCode correctly. This is another case of what I stated earlier about "mucking things up" . . . dumbing down to the point where, along with a "happy dance" things begin to look a bit nonsensical. LiveCode only uses drag-and-drop insofar as one can drop CONTROLS onto a CARD; those controls, subsequently, need coding, so I don't really see how they can be described as 'widgets'. I clicked on a button called "Learn More" where I didn't: http://livecode.com/products/livecode-platform/ Nothing about dragging and dropping widgets. NOW: many of the children who came to my classes in June-July wished to carry on with some stuff of their own during August, and, unwittingly, I directed them to www.livecode.com, and they complained that they did not understand anything. Parents also said they couldn't quite understand why the website described LiveCode as a glorified LEGO kit when it is not that. Those parents who have a programming background, who had seen the work their kids were doing, and been impressed and "had a go" themselves said that they felt it was a really good programming environment that they themselves would like to work with: but that there was a discrepancy between that and how it was presented on the website. Richmond. From kevin at livecode.com Thu Aug 13 08:58:47 2015 From: kevin at livecode.com (Kevin Miller) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 13:58:47 +0100 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: References: <08D58012-1582-4DCC-87F0-22C519D93AA7@icloud.com> <55CC57C4.2080308@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Thank you to everyone for all your input so far. Kickstarter was never intended to cover all development costs for everything we do. Software moves on, platforms move on, development continues at an astonishing speed in the digital world. Kickstarter was intended to fund extra developers to help deliver the clearly defined Kickstarter goals. It was also intended to allow you, the community, to contribute more, directly, to the development of LiveCode. We?ve gone Open Source, done the refactor project, the last major piece needed to fulfill the remaining stretch goals is the extensibility of 8. That is maturing rapidly. We?ve spent well over 2x the total we raised in getting to where we are now. A big component of that is the funds that come from our commercial licensing revenue. So from an Open Source backer perspective, you should be aware that we?ve more than match funded the entire campaign so far! Yes, its taken longer than projected. This does not lessen our commitment to any of it. Be comforted by this calculation: delivering everything we've done so far *without* the crowdfunding campaigns we estimate would have taken us around 15 years. We've done it in two. Thank you. We said during Kickstarter that the product would be dual licensed. That means we have an Open Source Community Edition and a closed source Commercial Edition. We made it clear we would continue to have a commercial product. At no stage did we ever imply otherwise. We?ve tweaked the product lineup periodically as lots of tech companies do. The Business License is an iteration on the Pro license which has been in the store for a long time. The Business Framework and the other business features we?re working on have nothing to do with the Kickstarter goals. Indeed success with these initiatives simply mean we?re in a position to further invest in Open Source, bringing many features that go beyond the original Kickstarter goals. And with the extensibility coming in 8, we expect to see far more code contributions and community created widgets. That whole process will be far easier and offer much greater flexibility to those of you that want to get more involved in the Community side of things. Anyone who knows us knows that we wouldn?t do something like going Open Source if it wasn?t something we believed in. The fact that we have delivered, and will continue to deliver, the vast majority of our effort in that way speaks for itself and will continue to do so. You chose to back a commercial company, and we have a responsibility to everyone to run a viable organization that properly services the needs of our whole user base. There is never a perfect way to please absolutely everyone, compromises have to be made along the way. We continue to consult our user base very widely, listen to feedback and carefully weigh things up so we can balance the needs of as many in our community as we possibly can. We?ve done that, for the most part successfully for many years. That is what we are going to continue to do. Kind regards, Kevin Kevin Miller ~ kevin at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From t.heaford at icloud.com Thu Aug 13 09:15:44 2015 From: t.heaford at icloud.com (Terence Heaford) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 14:15:44 +0100 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: References: <08D58012-1582-4DCC-87F0-22C519D93AA7@icloud.com> <55CC57C4.2080308@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: > On 13 Aug 2015, at 13:58, Kevin Miller wrote: > > We said during Kickstarter that the product would be dual licensed. That > means we have an Open Source Community Edition and a closed source > Commercial Edition. We made it clear we would continue to have a > commercial product. At no stage did we ever imply otherwise. I for one have never doubted this but?. Did you advise the Open Source backers at any point prior to or during the KickStarter campaign that the Commercial product would be different than the Open Source product except in the area of code protection? I think this is the area where people are doubting the future of the Open Source product. You may have said nothing about this and this is the ?naivety" referred to in a number of posts. All the best Terry From mkoob at rogers.com Thu Aug 13 10:00:10 2015 From: mkoob at rogers.com (Martin Koob) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 07:00:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: lcVCS in the LC Forums In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1439474410294-4694963.post@n4.nabble.com> I have been using lcVCS while developing my application and I don't think I could do without it. The ability to have a repository to track changes to a LiveCode application and to have those integrated with the issue tracking features at bitBucket is game changing for me. I would support a crowd funding initiative like Kickstarter to allow Monte to continue to work on this. Martin -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/lcVCS-in-the-LC-Forums-tp4694941p4694963.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Thu Aug 13 10:11:34 2015 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 10:11:34 -0400 Subject: [YO EDINBURGH!] Microsoft Open-Sources It's Toolkit For Making iOS Apps Run On Win 10 In-Reply-To: <0ABE9C35-AAB9-4317-B7D0-71882FA00DF1@sweattechnologies.com> References: <55CB99A4.2000407@fourthworld.com> <0ABE9C35-AAB9-4317-B7D0-71882FA00DF1@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 7:12 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > > > On 13 Aug 2015, at 5:08 am, Richard Gaskin > wrote: > > > > To put it into perspective, half of all iOS revenues go to only the top > 100 developers, and the majority of those apps are available on both > platforms. The top 1,000 developers consumer most of the app store > revenue, with the other million+ dividing the rest for an income that > ranges from below minimum wage to zero. Depending on which reports you > read, somewhere between 15% and 30% of apps in the iOS app store have never > been downloaded at all. In brief, hardly worth bickering about. > > I think there?s more to this issue than just the app store revenue. I?d be > interested to see the stats but my gut feeling is Apple devices are far > more commonly deployed by businesses for in house apps. When I got on a > plane the other day every seat had an iPad mini etc? lots of stories like > that we could all tell... > > I have seen this, but it isn't because iOS devices are necessarily better for businesses, but it's more of a perception of security and control. Apple does a great job of marketing this. My experience with Android has never involved malware infections, and any that have shown up in the media have been blown way out of proportion. Bad security practices of the user are usually at fault on any mobile or desktop platform. From mark at livecode.com Thu Aug 13 10:33:04 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 16:33:04 +0200 Subject: [YO EDINBURGH!] Microsoft Open-Sources It's Toolkit For Making iOS Apps Run On Win 10 In-Reply-To: References: <55CB99A4.2000407@fourthworld.com> <0ABE9C35-AAB9-4317-B7D0-71882FA00DF1@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <27d4833cb61c98f14a03e89bb6a9c0d6@livecode.com> > I have seen this, but it isn't because iOS devices are necessarily > better > for businesses, but it's more of a perception of security and control. > Apple does a great job of marketing this. My experience with Android > has > never involved malware infections, and any that have shown up in the > media > have been blown way out of proportion. Bad security practices of the > user > are usually at fault on any mobile or desktop platform. I think the media always blows security issues out of proportion - but then it does that with anything, so its perhaps not saying much :) It is probably only partly perception of security and control that means many large organizations do tend to go Apple rather than Android. There are other reasons I'm sure. The build quality for Apple devices is consistently very high for example (it should be as they are very expensive relatively speaking). That's a real concern if you are rolling 100's devices out in an organization - after all you don't want to have to be continually replacing individuals devices due to them not being robust enough for the job. I suspect there is also an element of 'oh look we use Apple devices' - after all Apple have (whether or not it is justified) gained a considerable reputation for producing high quality, well engineered premium devices - so there is probably a fair amount of 'how the company looks to the outside world' in the decisions which are made when choosing what hardware to adopt. However, that being said, it is a fact that iOS is significantly more locked down than Android. e.g. It is much easier to connect an Android device to a computer and prod around inside it just by enabling a single setting on the device itself. With iOS devices this isn't quite so easy - although possible. All access mechanisms used for development (which by their nature require slightly more general access than end-user use) are completely private in the iOS world - any tools which are not Xcode/iTunes which give any access to iOS devices exist because various private frameworks and protocols have been reversed engineered (a practice which puts any company in a very grey area legally if they then attempt to use such things). Android has also long had the problem that individual vendors are allowed to customize Android significantly as long as they agree to conform to certain 'compatibility requirements'. This means that the roll out of critical security updates has long been quite poor (as far as I understand it). There are several layers typically between updates to the core platform and the device vendors who must then integrate, update and deploy the updates to their users. This means that security updates can be very slow to come to many Android devices, with many not-that-old ones being left vulnerable in the water. Of course, the latter looks like it is set to change significantly. A couple of the most recent somewhat heinous attacks and flaws against Android seem to have prompted a all the major Android vendors committing to monthly security updates - leading on from Google's announcement. This might well start to change the iOS-secure vs Android-insecure meme which has been around for a long time. Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From kevin at livecode.com Thu Aug 13 11:15:42 2015 From: kevin at livecode.com (Kevin Miller) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 16:15:42 +0100 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: References: <08D58012-1582-4DCC-87F0-22C519D93AA7@icloud.com> <55CC57C4.2080308@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Yes. Perhaps it would help to understand this in context if you look some more at how some other dual licensed open source projects are run. Kind regards, Kevin Kevin Miller ~ kevin at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps On 13/08/2015 14:15, "Terence Heaford" wrote: > >> On 13 Aug 2015, at 13:58, Kevin Miller wrote: >> >> We said during Kickstarter that the product would be dual licensed. That >> means we have an Open Source Community Edition and a closed source >> Commercial Edition. We made it clear we would continue to have a >> commercial product. At no stage did we ever imply otherwise. > > >I for one have never doubted this but?. > >Did you advise the Open Source backers at any point prior to or during >the KickStarter campaign that the Commercial product would be different >than the Open Source product except in the area of code protection? > >I think this is the area where people are doubting the future of the Open >Source product. > >You may have said nothing about this and this is the ?naivety" referred >to in a number of posts. > > >All the best > > >Terry >_______________________________________________ >use-livecode mailing list >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Aug 13 11:42:40 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 10:42:40 -0500 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: References: <08D58012-1582-4DCC-87F0-22C519D93AA7@icloud.com> <55CC57C4.2080308@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On August 13, 2015 8:15:44 AM CDT, Terence Heaford wrote: > >Did you advise the Open Source backers at any point prior to or during >the KickStarter campaign that the Commercial product would be different >than the Open Source product except in the area of code protection? Brett's post cleared this up for me. The new BAF requires that stacks are written differently than they are now, and it won't work with existing stacks. It is a new product that requires a different development approach. The current community and commercial editions remain in parity. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Aug 13 11:46:05 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 10:46:05 -0500 Subject: Restore corrupted stack In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On August 13, 2015 4:24:33 AM CDT, Peter Bogdanoff wrote: > >I was working in LC 7.1 dp 1 and chose to not save a stack, quit, >reopened and got the message. > >On my Mac the TimeMachine backups from earlier in the evening are also >reporting as corrupted. I had also saved a version from the Finder >without quitting the program. These are the symptoms of a stack saved in LC 7 and then reopened in LC 6. Check to be sure you've launched the correct version of LiveCode. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jana.doughty at livecode.com Thu Aug 13 12:18:58 2015 From: jana.doughty at livecode.com (Jana Doughty) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 18:18:58 +0200 Subject: How to Create a Free iOS Provisioning Profile Message-ID: <0171c2e94e30a1c0219ec6e42a161867.squirrel@meg.on-rev.com> Hi LiveCode Community, We have a great new, timely blog for you today. It's called: How to Create a Free iOS Provisioning Profile You no longer need a subscription to test your apps on physical iOS Devices! It's pretty awesome. Check it out and let us know what you think: http://buff.ly/1DN6pWJ Thanks! Jana Doughty From prothero at earthednet.org Thu Aug 13 12:28:17 2015 From: prothero at earthednet.org (EED-wp Email) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 09:28:17 -0700 Subject: Describing LiveCode In-Reply-To: <8D6456C0-4757-472F-9C5C-A14B414D85B6@mac.com> References: <8D6456C0-4757-472F-9C5C-A14B414D85B6@mac.com> Message-ID: <7D05F1B0-5EA2-4E4A-86FD-31FC37721C3B@earthednet.org> This is a great way to learn programming, but there are a few caveats that might be considered. As I learned to program, i could never get thru more than one lecture (pascal). Ungodly boring! I needed a project and the docs. However, other folks may have different learning styles. Some may be very persistent, working until they get a solution. Others may need more motivation or self confidence to get to a solution. Some learn well from documents. Others may be more visual learners and need to be shown. Livecode seems to lend itself very well for a variety of learning styles, so perhaps a variety of teaching methods should be incorporated into a single course. Bill William Prothero http://ed.earthednet.org > On Aug 13, 2015, at 1:38 AM, Mick Collins wrote: > > Just my 2 cents worth: > > When I was studying math as an undergraduate and as a graduate student, many of the classes were taught by the (R. L.) Moore Method. In this method the professor gives axioms, definitions and just the statements of the theorems. The students have to prove the theorems themselves. The class time is nearly all spent with students presenting their proofs (lower (higher) ability students present the more easy (difficult) theorems, sometimes more than one proof presented so students see them from different angles). The students get a very deep understanding of the ideas involved because they?ve had to look at them from a lot of different angles and see what will work. It can be easily seen who is working at it and who not (thus providing some kind of evidence for a grade, although in our classes, very few slacked off AT ALL). > > My suggestion is a variation on this method for ?teaching" Livecode. Students would be assigned several tiny projects at a time with maybe one or two new mini-concepts per project, having been given what the GUI for the project looks/operates like and a few words to look up in the dictionary and other places. In the Moore method, there are no textbooks nor outward-directed research of any kind ? that, of course, wouldn?t work here because of the difference between computers and mathematics, but limits can be set so that they are largely doing it on their own. There are many variations that could add to the utility, for instance working in pairs, where one works on researching the new ideas, the other constructing the GUI and scripting, alternating from project to project. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From pete at lcsql.com Thu Aug 13 13:16:51 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 17:16:51 +0000 Subject: mySQL: PHP or direct access? Message-ID: What are the pluses and minuses you get from using php as a middleman to access a mySQL database on a server versus accessing the mySQL database directly from LC? Web sources typically mention two main benefits: php runs on any platform, and it's easier to create dynamic web pages. I think the first one really has to do with using php over any other server side language rather than direct vs indirect db access. So assuming I have a Livecode application that does not generate dynamic web pages, what other reasons might there be to use php (or not)? And if I do use php, how do I protect against sql injection attacks? From brahma at hindu.org Thu Aug 13 13:27:05 2015 From: brahma at hindu.org (Brahmanathaswami) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 07:27:05 -1000 Subject: lcVCS in the LC Forums In-Reply-To: <78E65182-83D8-4BF0-B9C1-EE4090F4F2B1@gmail.com> References: <246C8CFC-3C10-44AB-BA81-71F3699E2855@sweattechnologies.com> <55CC6F5D.3080807@gmail.com> <78E65182-83D8-4BF0-B9C1-EE4090F4F2B1@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55CCD369.3090007@hindu.org> Yep, even a non-profit on a tight budget would spring some contribution as this advancement would open door to collaboration that are really important to us. Brahmanathaswami Skip Kimpel wrote: > +1 for contribution. > > This has been one of my sticking points over the years and would love to see a fully developed solution to the issue as hand. > > Thanks again, Monte, for everything that you do! > > SKIP From mark at livecode.com Thu Aug 13 13:29:11 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 18:29:11 +0100 Subject: mySQL: PHP or direct access? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: In general it is not advised to directly connect to databases over the Internet and it is considered better practice to front your db access through an http interface (which you could equally well implement in LC server running and connecting locally to the db on the server). One reason to do this is that it helps separate the db from the API used to access it. This reduces the 'surface area of attack' to just the specific HTTP API you develop for your client to connect to. It also means you can separate the API from the DB scheme, making it easier to evolve, maintain and update. Another reason (which is perhaps getting slightly less important as tech evolves) is that public wifi access points can restrict which ports you can access with some only allowing mail and web service access. As MySQL and other services will run on other ports to these, they would be inaccessible in some locations. If this is an application running on a local network which can be secured itself the main reason would just be structure - ie the separation of the backend storage implementation from the API clients vector through to perform their functions. Mark. Sent from my iPhone > On 13 Aug 2015, at 18:16, Peter Haworth wrote: > > What are the pluses and minuses you get from using php as a middleman to > access a mySQL database on a server versus accessing the mySQL database > directly from LC? > > Web sources typically mention two main benefits: php runs on any platform, > and it's easier to create dynamic web pages. I think the first one really > has to do with using php over any other server side language rather than > direct vs indirect db access. > > So assuming I have a Livecode application that does not generate dynamic > web pages, what other reasons might there be to use php (or not)? And if I > do use php, how do I protect against sql injection attacks? > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Thu Aug 13 13:34:02 2015 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 13:34:02 -0400 Subject: MySQL: PHP or direct access? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <005a01d0d5ee$3ec51320$bc4f3960$@net> Peter, Good question. Why is LC server instead of PHP not an option for you? I know this has been talked about on the list before but I still don't have a solid handle on this. I'm still am not clear on how SQL injection can be done with a direct MySQL connection using ssl. Also when using a web service (LC server, PHP...) to access a MySQL DB over https what are the vulnerabilities? Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Peter Haworth Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2015 1:17 PM To: How to use LiveCode Subject: mySQL: PHP or direct access? What are the pluses and minuses you get from using php as a middleman to access a mySQL database on a server versus accessing the mySQL database directly from LC? Web sources typically mention two main benefits: php runs on any platform, and it's easier to create dynamic web pages. I think the first one really has to do with using php over any other server side language rather than direct vs indirect db access. So assuming I have a Livecode application that does not generate dynamic web pages, what other reasons might there be to use php (or not)? And if I do use php, how do I protect against sql injection attacks? _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Aug 13 13:45:07 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 10:45:07 -0700 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: <2546A69E-E52F-4F00-83EF-64E4719DED49@sweattechnologies.com> References: <2546A69E-E52F-4F00-83EF-64E4719DED49@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <55CCD7A3.9030001@fourthworld.com> Monte Goulding wrote: > One thing worth considering is as complex widgets develop the number > of objects on a stack should reduce dramatically making it much > easier to work out what you?re looking at. Combined with scriptified > stacks it?s starting to look like a reasonable solution. LiveCode is unusual in many ways. If there are anomalies with how it integrates with VCSes designed for very different languages that would really be the least of our concerns. If accommodating other people's expectations of "normal" were a priority we might as well use dot notation. :) Lets do what we can with what we have. "A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week." - Gen. George S. Patton -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From mark at livecode.com Thu Aug 13 13:49:58 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 19:49:58 +0200 Subject: MySQL: PHP or direct =?UTF-8?Q?access=3F?= In-Reply-To: <005a01d0d5ee$3ec51320$bc4f3960$@net> References: <005a01d0d5ee$3ec51320$bc4f3960$@net> Message-ID: <77553d65ed62f7fba4e700cc1e4d0928@livecode.com> > Good question. Why is LC server instead of PHP not an option for you? > I > know this has been talked about on the list before but I still don't > have a > solid handle on this. I'm still am not clear on how SQL injection can > be > done with a direct MySQL connection using ssl. Also when using a web > service > (LC server, PHP...) to access a MySQL DB over https what are the > vulnerabilities? SQL Injection attacks are independent on transport method because they come about from a query being passed to the DB which is constructed with 'unsafe' input in a way that does not ensure that that input cannot change the query itself. Here 'unsafe' means something which has come from the client via some sort of user input without being vetted or checked. As a simple (rather stupid) example consider a client application which has a field which expects a number, and an output field. The user enters a number into the field and the client does a query to fetch a piece of data mapped to that number in the DB. e.g. query "SELECT content FROM data WHERE user=" & pUserId" && "AND id=" & field "Input" put the result into field "Output" Here the input field is not being validated in anyway, nor is the value being escaped. This means that I am then free (as a user of the client) to put anything I want into that field. Imagine I put the following into the field: 1 OR user=1 AND id=2 The query the client ends up sending to the DB is: SELECT content FROM data WHERE user= AND id=1 OR user=1 AND is=2 This query gives me access to data that I should not have - in particular it allows me to fetch both the bit of data which is attached to my user id (I'm assuming here that the client has worked out the user id for the current user) *and* to a bit of data which is attached to another user id. The point is that failure to validate inputs which are built into queries passed direct to a DB are a potential point where a malicious individual could 'work out' how to access areas of the system to which they should not have access. If you use parameterized queries then you are largely insulated from this as the input data is never concatenated into the query and passed as parameters. This means the query cannot be altered by malicious users by varying inputs in the client. Fronting with a webservice doesn't necessarily stop injection attacks, it just gives you an extra level of indirection at which validation, checks and such can be done. i.e. If you don't validate the inputs to the webservice, SQL injection can still happen if it concatenating those inputs into a query string directly. It also encourages to think of the database as just a datastore - typically you'd design your webservice API at a level which is more appropriate to the client application, with the work of building queries and constructing the results all done 'behind' a wall. This means the internal structure of the database and the queries you send to it are far less easy to snoop upon from the client, which means it would be harder to find possibilites for injection attacks. Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From brahma at hindu.org Thu Aug 13 13:51:01 2015 From: brahma at hindu.org (Brahmanathaswami) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 07:51:01 -1000 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: References: <08D58012-1582-4DCC-87F0-22C519D93AA7@icloud.com> <55CC57C4.2080308@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <55CCD905.70806@hindu.org> Aloha, Kevin: A well considered response. I'll be with you for the long haul, no question about that. Please do consider - hear our "pleas" for tools that are expected out of the box in an open source arena 1) long, long, long, long standing request SFTP on board. Make a widget fo that asap and there will be cheers in digital heaven. LC is probably the only app I have on my box that still cannot make a secure file transfer to a web server. Even silly little things like Skitch screen saver can SFTP to our web server. I'm planning to use Richards idea of shell + keys.. but I have to go around to all the work stations here and make keys for everyone on the team.. I shouldn't have to do that. 2) Clearly a collaborative environment is significant. I follow with interest the brilliant discussion between Monte and Mark... stacks are a multi-armed beastie and we appreciate the challenges there. 3) Work needs to continue on the IDE to bring it up to the high end graphical interface content creation standards of today's world. IMHO you need to put more energy there... a small focus team of graphic designers who think in terms of building love "eye candy." hammering on the IDE would get you a long way in a short time. Nasty things like not being able to set the vertical height of a label in a button, because you don't keep the line height property exposed in the inspector.. etc... these all need fixed... and don't required any engine changes... my long standing rant that you really need to make it easier to build "elegant looking" UI can all be easily implement via the IDE with few changes in the engine MVC and object oriented etc are a bit over my head... I look forward to finding out exactly what that means. I use revIgniter, so I understand the concepts, but we will watch with interest on developments. Since you are committed to a multi-level license scheme.. You could consider an interim space between indy and BAF, where those tools are made available to individual developers and non-profits for a slightly increased annual subscription fee. God knows we pay Abode, and our accounting software vendors a lot more than we ever pay RunRev.. so I'm sure I could live with a price increase for some kind of license like that. Of course I don't even understand what the BAF offers yet, so this is all speculation. Yes, we need to all appreciate the requirements for you to have a revenue stream, not only to drive the product forward, but so your team can put money into their kids educational funds and have enough expendable cash to enjoy life. Sometimes when I see the open source complaints I wonder if they forget there are real people in Scotland who have to put food on the table at home. So I'm with you there. The player object seems to be moving forward, thank you. I look forward to testing the new on in 7.1 Many blessings from Hawaii. May you succeed in these goals! Swasti Astu, Be Well! Brahmanathaswami Kevin Miller wrote: > Thank you to everyone for all your input so far. > > Kickstarter was never intended to cover all development costs for > everything we do. Software moves on, platforms move on, development > continues at an astonishing speed in the digital world. Kickstarter was > intended to fund extra developers to help deliver the clearly defined > Kickstarter goals. It was also intended to allow you, the community, to > contribute more, directly, to the development of LiveCode. > > We?ve gone Open Source, done the refactor project, the last major piece > needed to fulfill the remaining stretch goals is the extensibility of 8. > That is maturing rapidly. We?ve spent well over 2x the total we raised in > getting to where we are now. A big component of that is the funds that > come from our commercial licensing revenue. So from an Open Source backer > perspective, you should be aware that we?ve more than match funded the > entire campaign so far! Yes, its taken longer than projected. This does > not lessen our commitment to any of it. Be comforted by this calculation: > delivering everything we've done so far *without* the crowdfunding > campaigns we estimate would have taken us around 15 years. We've done it > in two. Thank you. > > We said during Kickstarter that the product would be dual licensed. That > means we have an Open Source Community Edition and a closed source > Commercial Edition. We made it clear we would continue to have a > commercial product. At no stage did we ever imply otherwise. > > We?ve tweaked the product lineup periodically as lots of tech companies > do. The Business License is an iteration on the Pro license which has been > in the store for a long time. The Business Framework and the other > business features we?re working on have nothing to do with the Kickstarter > goals. Indeed success with these initiatives simply mean we?re in a > position to further invest in Open Source, bringing many features that go > beyond the original Kickstarter goals. And with the extensibility coming > in 8, we expect to see far more code contributions and community created > widgets. That whole process will be far easier and offer much greater > flexibility to those of you that want to get more involved in the > Community side of things. > > Anyone who knows us knows that we wouldn?t do something like going Open > Source if it wasn?t something we believed in. The fact that we have > delivered, and will continue to deliver, the vast majority of our effort > in that way speaks for itself and will continue to do so. You chose to > back a commercial company, and we have a responsibility to everyone to run > a viable organization that properly services the needs of our whole user > base. There is never a perfect way to please absolutely everyone, > compromises have to be made along the way. We continue to consult our user > base very widely, listen to feedback and carefully weigh things up so we > can balance the needs of as many in our community as we possibly can. > We?ve done that, for the most part successfully for many years. That is > what we are going to continue to do. > > > Kind regards, > > Kevin > > Kevin Miller ~ kevin at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ > LiveCode: Everyone can create apps > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mark at livecode.com Thu Aug 13 13:56:44 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 19:56:44 +0200 Subject: MySQL: PHP or direct =?UTF-8?Q?access=3F?= In-Reply-To: <77553d65ed62f7fba4e700cc1e4d0928@livecode.com> References: <005a01d0d5ee$3ec51320$bc4f3960$@net> <77553d65ed62f7fba4e700cc1e4d0928@livecode.com> Message-ID: <7491c5389704e35719cbde9574b72fc6@livecode.com> > Here 'unsafe' means something which has come from the client via some > sort of user input without being vetted or checked. I should clarify here that user input doesn't necessarily come from input fields in a UI - it can come from any data passed from the client to the server which originates from somewhere the user using the client can mutate. For example, it could equally come from configuration text files on disk which the user can modify. Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Aug 13 14:08:21 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 11:08:21 -0700 Subject: MySQL: PHP or direct access? In-Reply-To: <77553d65ed62f7fba4e700cc1e4d0928@livecode.com> References: <77553d65ed62f7fba4e700cc1e4d0928@livecode.com> Message-ID: <55CCDD15.9010101@fourthworld.com> Mark Waddingham > As a simple (rather stupid) example consider a client application > which has a field which expects a number, and an output field. > > The user enters a number into the field and the client does a query > to fetch a piece of data mapped to that number in the DB. e.g. > query "SELECT content FROM data WHERE user=" & pUserId" && "AND > id=" & field "Input" > put the result into field "Output" > > Here the input field is not being validated in anyway, nor is the > value being escaped. This means that I am then free (as a user of > the client) to put anything I want into that field. Imagine I put > the following into the field: > 1 OR user=1 AND id=2 > > The query the client ends up sending to the DB is: > SELECT content FROM data WHERE user= AND id=1 OR > user=1 AND is=2 > > This query gives me access to data that I should not have - in > particular it allows me to fetch both the bit of data which is > attached to my user id (I'm assuming here that the client has worked > out the user id for the current user) *and* to a bit of data which > is attached to another user id. If it helps for those who may not know SQL as well as they know LiveCode, imagine a client that sends any data entered into a field to this LiveCode Server script: do $_GET At that point you've allowed anyone using your client to execute anything LiveCode can do. This is true with any interpreter, whether SQL, Python, Perl, Ruby, PHP, or anything else. The benefit of a general-purpose language like PHP or LiveCode over a storage-specific language like SQL is that it's easier to sanitize inputs, making you safe from Little Bobby Tables: -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From mark at livecode.com Thu Aug 13 14:16:36 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 20:16:36 +0200 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: <55CCD7A3.9030001@fourthworld.com> References: <2546A69E-E52F-4F00-83EF-64E4719DED49@sweattechnologies.com> <55CCD7A3.9030001@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <4384b9e6177bc93a914f236acd4c6680@livecode.com> > LiveCode is unusual in many ways. If there are anomalies with how it > integrates with VCSes designed for very different languages that would > really be the least of our concerns. Indeed - that is a good way to look at it. > If accommodating other people's expectations of "normal" were a > priority we might as well use dot notation. :) Touch?. > Lets do what we can with what we have. That seems like a wise approach. Ultimately, our own internal foray into the general stackfile VCS problem means that there are now more people with intimate knowledge of it, including possibilities and pitfalls, which can only be a good thing. Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ mark at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps From klaus at major-k.de Thu Aug 13 14:32:01 2015 From: klaus at major-k.de (Klaus major-k) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 20:32:01 +0200 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: <4384b9e6177bc93a914f236acd4c6680@livecode.com> References: <2546A69E-E52F-4F00-83EF-64E4719DED49@sweattechnologies.com> <55CCD7A3.9030001@fourthworld.com> <4384b9e6177bc93a914f236acd4c6680@livecode.com> Message-ID: <29A53E47-15E5-4C5B-9936-93FD2BD0261D@major-k.de> Hi all, Kevin mentioned in his orignal mail: ? and a PDF Viewer. Please, please, please also give this one to ?the masses?! We?ve been waiting for this for ages. Best Klaus -- Klaus Major http://www.major-k.de klaus at major-k.de From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Thu Aug 13 14:33:10 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 21:33:10 +0300 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: <29A53E47-15E5-4C5B-9936-93FD2BD0261D@major-k.de> References: <2546A69E-E52F-4F00-83EF-64E4719DED49@sweattechnologies.com> <55CCD7A3.9030001@fourthworld.com> <4384b9e6177bc93a914f236acd4c6680@livecode.com> <29A53E47-15E5-4C5B-9936-93FD2BD0261D@major-k.de> Message-ID: <55CCE2E6.7030905@gmail.com> +1 > Hi all, > > Kevin mentioned in his orignal mail: > ? and a PDF Viewer. > > Please, please, please also give this one to ?the masses?! > We?ve been waiting for this for ages. > > > Best > > Klaus > > -- > Klaus Major > http://www.major-k.de > klaus at major-k.de > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From pete at lcsql.com Thu Aug 13 14:37:00 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 18:37:00 +0000 Subject: MySQL: PHP or direct access? In-Reply-To: <77553d65ed62f7fba4e700cc1e4d0928@livecode.com> References: <005a01d0d5ee$3ec51320$bc4f3960$@net> <77553d65ed62f7fba4e700cc1e4d0928@livecode.com> Message-ID: Or even worse: SELECT content FROM data WHERE user=;DROP TABLE data On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 10:50 AM Mark Waddingham wrote: > > Here the input field is not being validated in anyway, nor is the value > being escaped. This means that I am then free (as a user of the client) > to put anything I want into that field. Imagine I put the following into > the field: > 1 OR user=1 AND id=2 > > The query the client ends up sending to the DB is: > SELECT content FROM data WHERE user= AND id=1 OR user=1 > AND is=2 > > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From mkoob at rogers.com Thu Aug 13 15:01:50 2015 From: mkoob at rogers.com (Martin Koob) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 12:01:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [OT-ish] naming a MeetUp group In-Reply-To: References: <5ACFD6EB-19F4-4D85-83E3-1DB806BFE5BC@gmail.com> <55C689AD.1070700@fourthworld.com> <975CDEEF-8507-477C-9FCC-F63C39FA833D@gmail.com> <55C69328.2030404@fourthworld.com> <1439130096520-4694725.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <1439492510599-4694984.post@n4.nabble.com> So it is not just me :-) Thanks Bill Martin -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/OT-ish-naming-a-MeetUp-group-tp4694690p4694984.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From pete at lcsql.com Thu Aug 13 15:05:46 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 19:05:46 +0000 Subject: mySQL: PHP or direct access? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks for all the inout. I should probably have phrased my question a little differently and asked about the pros and cons of a sever side interface versus a direct connection rather than referencing php specifically. The php reference came about because of a recent post on its use. It appears that it comes down to a matter of good application design and architecture more than anything else, assuming all the security issues are addressed. I'm probably still not understanding this completely, but how do I protect against SQL injection attacks when using a server side interface? I can do that very easily from within Livecode by using the parameterized variables available with the revdbxxx calls but it seems like I would have to implement my own version of that feature, perhaps by sending the statement with placeholders as one message followed the values for the placeholders in another. I believe that's how it's done within the lc database library. Or perhaps the structure of every individual SQL statement I need in the application is known to the server side script and identified by an id of some sort. My application would then send the statement id and a list of any required data values to the server side script instead of the SQL statement, thus no SQL statement ever crosses the connection. I don't think there's been an answer yet to Ralph's question about how all this is affected by using SSL on the db connection. On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 10:29 AM Mark Waddingham wrote: > In general it is not advised to directly connect to databases over the > Internet and it is considered better practice to front your db access > through an http interface (which you could equally well implement in LC > server running and connecting locally to the db on the server). > > One reason to do this is that it helps separate the db from the API used > to access it. This reduces the 'surface area of attack' to just the > specific HTTP API you develop for your client to connect to. It also means > you can separate the API from the DB scheme, making it easier to evolve, > maintain and update. > > Another reason (which is perhaps getting slightly less important as tech > evolves) is that public wifi access points can restrict which ports you can > access with some only allowing mail and web service access. As MySQL and > other services will run on other ports to these, they would be inaccessible > in some locations. > > If this is an application running on a local network which can be secured > itself the main reason would just be structure - ie the separation of the > backend storage implementation from the API clients vector through to > perform their functions. > > Mark. > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On 13 Aug 2015, at 18:16, Peter Haworth wrote: > > > > What are the pluses and minuses you get from using php as a middleman to > > access a mySQL database on a server versus accessing the mySQL database > > directly from LC? > > > > Web sources typically mention two main benefits: php runs on any > platform, > > and it's easier to create dynamic web pages. I think the first one > really > > has to do with using php over any other server side language rather than > > direct vs indirect db access. > > > > So assuming I have a Livecode application that does not generate dynamic > > web pages, what other reasons might there be to use php (or not)? And > if I > > do use php, how do I protect against sql injection attacks? > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From prothero at earthednet.org Thu Aug 13 15:58:37 2015 From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 12:58:37 -0700 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: <55CCE2E6.7030905@gmail.com> References: <2546A69E-E52F-4F00-83EF-64E4719DED49@sweattechnologies.com> <55CCD7A3.9030001@fourthworld.com> <4384b9e6177bc93a914f236acd4c6680@livecode.com> <29A53E47-15E5-4C5B-9936-93FD2BD0261D@major-k.de> <55CCE2E6.7030905@gmail.com> Message-ID: <154C35AA-FF5F-4282-B20E-7F18274C4B90@earthednet.org> +2 Very important. Bill > On Aug 13, 2015, at 11:33 AM, Richmond wrote: > > +1 >> Hi all, >> >> Kevin mentioned in his orignal mail: >> ? and a PDF Viewer. >> >> Please, please, please also give this one to ?the masses?! >> We?ve been waiting for this for ages. >> >> >> Best >> >> Klaus >> >> -- >> Klaus Major >> http://www.major-k.de >> klaus at major-k.de >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From prothero at earthednet.org Thu Aug 13 16:15:56 2015 From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 13:15:56 -0700 Subject: mySQL: PHP or direct access? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Peter: > I'm probably still not understanding this completely, but how do I protect > against SQL injection attacks when using a server side interface? I can do > that very easily from within Livecode by using the parameterized variables > available with the revdbxxx calls but it seems like I would have to > implement my own version of that feature, perhaps by sending the statement > with placeholders as one message followed the values for the placeholders > in another. I believe that's how it's done within the lc database library. > > > Or perhaps the structure of every individual SQL statement I need in the > application is known to the server side script and identified by an id of > some sort. My application would then send the statement id and a list of > any required data values to the server side script instead of the SQL > statement, thus no SQL statement ever crosses the connection. > This is my understanding of the answer to your question (those who know more may correct me): If the user does not have access to the sql command syntax, through a text entry field, or local file contents (which can be edited), then the system is ?pretty? secure. However, this doesn?t prevent anybody from directly accessing your php code from another program. They might get the query info from a user?s keylogger spyware, or some other way of monitoring unsecured internet traffic. A secure connection, using https should be secure. However, better practice would be to use tokens in the serverside code and have the serverside code assemble the final sql query. This also depends on how critical your sql data are, and how valuable it is. You should also limit the privileges of the sql user to only those needed by your app. You probably don?t want them to be able to drop, and create new databases, for example. Good luck, Bill William A. Prothero http://es.earthednet.org/ From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Thu Aug 13 16:31:28 2015 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 16:31:28 -0400 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: <154C35AA-FF5F-4282-B20E-7F18274C4B90@earthednet.org> References: <2546A69E-E52F-4F00-83EF-64E4719DED49@sweattechnologies.com> <55CCD7A3.9030001@fourthworld.com> <4384b9e6177bc93a914f236acd4c6680@livecode.com> <29A53E47-15E5-4C5B-9936-93FD2BD0261D@major-k.de> <55CCE2E6.7030905@gmail.com> <154C35AA-FF5F-4282-B20E-7F18274C4B90@earthednet.org> Message-ID: <007201d0d607$08a72030$19f56090$@net> +2 also Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of William Prothero Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2015 3:59 PM To: Use-livecode Use-livecode Subject: Re: Business Application Framework +2 Very important. Bill > On Aug 13, 2015, at 11:33 AM, Richmond wrote: > > +1 >> Hi all, >> >> Kevin mentioned in his orignal mail: >> ? and a PDF Viewer. >> >> Please, please, please also give this one to ?the masses?! >> We?ve been waiting for this for ages. >> >> >> Best >> >> Klaus >> >> -- >> Klaus Major >> http://www.major-k.de >> klaus at major-k.de >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From prothero at earthednet.org Thu Aug 13 16:30:01 2015 From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 13:30:01 -0700 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: <154C35AA-FF5F-4282-B20E-7F18274C4B90@earthednet.org> References: <2546A69E-E52F-4F00-83EF-64E4719DED49@sweattechnologies.com> <55CCD7A3.9030001@fourthworld.com> <4384b9e6177bc93a914f236acd4c6680@livecode.com> <29A53E47-15E5-4C5B-9936-93FD2BD0261D@major-k.de> <55CCE2E6.7030905@gmail.com> <154C35AA-FF5F-4282-B20E-7F18274C4B90@earthednet.org> Message-ID: <8F52318F-4350-4E1C-B35A-3856D3C25933@earthednet.org> The big response on this topic illustrates to me that the community is very concerned about the possibility of a two-tiered livecode environment where we need to pay extra to get added premium features that we all will want. Personally, I am very happy with the direction and work that the dev team has taken so far, especially considering my past experience with Adobe Director. But, I confess to a worry about a possible ?bait and switch? outcome, which I don?t really think is the intention, but the announcement was worded in a way that allowed for this interpretation by a community exposed to this tactic by other software companies. How many ?Free? games have we downloaded, only to find that it costs more to actually play? It seems reasonable that the livecode enterprise is continuing to evolve their business plan, and that as it evolves, new changes will occur. Hopefully the comments and reactions on this topic will inform and help the enterprise communicate plan effectively for the future. The worst outcome, of course, would be for the enterprise to go ?belly up? and we then are all abandoned. So, I am hoping they find a great business plan that they can present to the community in a clear way that is as understandable as possible. That said: I love the application and am grateful for it every day that I use it. Regards, Bill William A. Prothero http://es.earthednet.org/ > On Aug 13, 2015, at 12:58 PM, William Prothero wrote: > > +2 > Very important. > Bill > >> On Aug 13, 2015, at 11:33 AM, Richmond wrote: >> >> +1 >>> Hi all, >>> >>> Kevin mentioned in his orignal mail: >>> ? and a PDF Viewer. >>> >>> Please, please, please also give this one to ?the masses?! >>> We?ve been waiting for this for ages. >>> >>> >>> Best >>> >>> Klaus >>> >>> -- >>> Klaus Major >>> http://www.major-k.de >>> klaus at major-k.de >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Thu Aug 13 16:36:31 2015 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 16:36:31 -0400 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: <8F52318F-4350-4E1C-B35A-3856D3C25933@earthednet.org> References: <2546A69E-E52F-4F00-83EF-64E4719DED49@sweattechnologies.com> <55CCD7A3.9030001@fourthworld.com> <4384b9e6177bc93a914f236acd4c6680@livecode.com> <29A53E47-15E5-4C5B-9936-93FD2BD0261D@major-k.de> <55CCE2E6.7030905@gmail.com> <154C35AA-FF5F-4282-B20E-7F18274C4B90@earthednet.org> <8F52318F-4350-4E1C-B35A-3856D3C25933@earthednet.org> Message-ID: <007301d0d607$bd2bbde0$378339a0$@net> +1 > William Prothero wrote > That said: I love the application and am grateful for it every day that I use it. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net From pete at lcsql.com Thu Aug 13 17:05:50 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 21:05:50 +0000 Subject: mySQL: PHP or direct access? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks BIll. I understand about the tokenization but Livecode can already do that within a direct connection without a server side script and, at least for mySQL, can open a direct connection using SSL. It still seems to me that, once security matters are dealt with, the choice of server side script versus direct connection is more a matter of preferred application architecture more than anything else. My simplistic approach has always to use Livecode to get something done if it's possible for Livecode to do it and it's acceptably efficient, so just trying to resolve why I would spend time to learn php and write and debug a bunch of php scripts when it feels like Livecode would work just fine. On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 1:16 PM William Prothero wrote: > Peter: > > > I'm probably still not understanding this completely, but how do I > protect > > against SQL injection attacks when using a server side interface? I can > do > > that very easily from within Livecode by using the parameterized > variables > > available with the revdbxxx calls but it seems like I would have to > > implement my own version of that feature, perhaps by sending the > statement > > with placeholders as one message followed the values for the placeholders > > in another. I believe that's how it's done within the lc database > library. > > > > > > Or perhaps the structure of every individual SQL statement I need in the > > application is known to the server side script and identified by an id of > > some sort. My application would then send the statement id and a list of > > any required data values to the server side script instead of the SQL > > statement, thus no SQL statement ever crosses the connection. > > > This is my understanding of the answer to your question (those who know > more may correct me): > > If the user does not have access to the sql command syntax, through a text > entry field, or local file contents (which can be edited), then the system > is ?pretty? secure. However, this doesn?t prevent anybody from directly > accessing your php code from another program. They might get the query > info from a user?s keylogger spyware, or some other way of monitoring > unsecured internet traffic. A secure connection, using https should be > secure. However, better practice would be to use tokens in the serverside > code and have the serverside code assemble the final sql query. This also > depends on how critical your sql data are, and how valuable it is. > > You should also limit the privileges of the sql user to only those needed > by your app. You probably don?t want them to be able to drop, and create > new databases, for example. > > Good luck, > Bill > > William A. Prothero > http://es.earthednet.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Aug 13 17:27:04 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 14:27:04 -0700 Subject: mySQL: PHP or direct access? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55CD0BA8.6020507@fourthworld.com> Peter Haworth wrote: > It still seems to me that, once security matters are dealt with, the choice > of server side script versus direct connection is more a matter of > preferred application architecture more than anything else. Ah, but there's the rub, "once security matters are dealt with". Correct me if I'm wrong, but as a storage-specific language I don't believe SQL offers as much for sanitizing as PHP, Ruby, LiveCode, and other more general languages. I think there's a good reason most of the world protects their DBs from open exposure to the Internet via an intermediary scripting language, more than just for the convenience of making REST APIs. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From pete at lcsql.com Thu Aug 13 17:44:10 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 21:44:10 +0000 Subject: mySQL: PHP or direct access? In-Reply-To: <55CD0BA8.6020507@fourthworld.com> References: <55CD0BA8.6020507@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: I agree that SQL doesn't have much in the way of data sanitizing but Livecode does. I also agree that there must be a good reason why most of the world uses server side scripting, just trying to understand exactly what that is. I've been under the impression that if I use the variableslist parameter available with the revDatabasexxx calls, I'm protected from SQL injection attacks. Even more so if I open the database connection using SSL. The proverbial lightbulb will start to come on if that impression is wrong! On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 2:27 PM Richard Gaskin wrote: > Peter Haworth wrote: > > It still seems to me that, once security matters are dealt with, the > choice > > of server side script versus direct connection is more a matter of > > preferred application architecture more than anything else. > > Ah, but there's the rub, "once security matters are dealt with". > > Correct me if I'm wrong, but as a storage-specific language I don't > believe SQL offers as much for sanitizing as PHP, Ruby, LiveCode, and > other more general languages. > > I think there's a good reason most of the world protects their DBs from > open exposure to the Internet via an intermediary scripting language, > more than just for the convenience of making REST APIs. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From dochawk at gmail.com Thu Aug 13 17:47:20 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 14:47:20 -0700 Subject: lcVCS in the LC Forums In-Reply-To: <55CC6F5D.3080807@gmail.com> References: <246C8CFC-3C10-44AB-BA81-71F3699E2855@sweattechnologies.com> <55CC6F5D.3080807@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 3:20 AM, Richmond wrote: > I would also like to say how much I feel for you over your bereavement. > I do, as well. We've been there, and the loss just can't be described. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From dochawk at gmail.com Thu Aug 13 17:49:13 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 14:49:13 -0700 Subject: mySQL: PHP or direct access? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 10:16 AM, Peter Haworth wrote: > What are the pluses and minuses you get from using php as a middleman to > access a mySQL database on a server versus accessing the mySQL database > directly from LC? > Also note that LiveCode can't handle compound commands with mySQL, while it can with Postgres & SQLite (one of several reasons I've completely dropped support for it from my application; hundreds of remote transactions at once are a show-stopper . . .) -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From prothero at earthednet.org Thu Aug 13 18:02:48 2015 From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 15:02:48 -0700 Subject: mySQL: PHP or direct access? In-Reply-To: References: <55CD0BA8.6020507@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <71FD2720-C434-4D00-8862-641EC7B6435E@earthednet.org> Peter: The answer to the question is ?where does the security failure occur?? The weak link is the transmission of the command from the local computer to the server. If you tokenize the command at the local computer level, you still have the problem. The remote server can be accessed by anybody (theoretically). So, suppose your remote server will accept an arbitrary sql command. On your local machine, tokenizing the sql command will prevent the user of your application from (possibly) creating a destructive sql command. But, the outside world can still initiate that command because the source is outside your application. I hope that makes sense. Best, Bill > On Aug 13, 2015, at 2:44 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: > > I agree that SQL doesn't have much in the way of data sanitizing but > Livecode does. I also agree that there must be a good reason why most of > the world uses server side scripting, just trying to understand exactly > what that is. > > I've been under the impression that if I use the variableslist parameter > available with the revDatabasexxx calls, I'm protected from SQL injection > attacks. Even more so if I open the database connection using SSL. The > proverbial lightbulb will start to come on if that impression is wrong! > > > On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 2:27 PM Richard Gaskin > wrote: > >> Peter Haworth wrote: >>> It still seems to me that, once security matters are dealt with, the >> choice >>> of server side script versus direct connection is more a matter of >>> preferred application architecture more than anything else. >> >> Ah, but there's the rub, "once security matters are dealt with". >> >> Correct me if I'm wrong, but as a storage-specific language I don't >> believe SQL offers as much for sanitizing as PHP, Ruby, LiveCode, and >> other more general languages. >> >> I think there's a good reason most of the world protects their DBs from >> open exposure to the Internet via an intermediary scripting language, >> more than just for the convenience of making REST APIs. >> >> -- >> Richard Gaskin >> Fourth World Systems >> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web >> ____________________________________________________________________ >> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk Thu Aug 13 18:08:28 2015 From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 23:08:28 +0100 Subject: mySQL: PHP or direct access? In-Reply-To: References: <55CD0BA8.6020507@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <7C09D196-EA2C-4F8A-B4CE-535E0FB22122@lacscentre.co.uk> > On 13 Aug 2015, at 22:44, Peter Haworth wrote: > > I agree that SQL doesn't have much in the way of data sanitizing but > Livecode does. I also agree that there must be a good reason why most of > the world uses server side scripting, just trying to understand exactly > what that is. > > I've been under the impression that if I use the variableslist parameter > available with the revDatabasexxx calls, I'm protected from SQL injection > attacks. Even more so if I open the database connection using SSL. The > proverbial lightbulb will start to come on if that impression is wrong! I don't know your specific setup, but I'm assuming the general case that the database is accessed over the internet, and there are multiple users of your application. If your application accesses the database directly, you will need to configure the database to accept remote connections, and presumably somehow make the database credentials available to the application. 1. How to keep the credentials secure in the application? 2. If the credentials have to be updated, you would need to update all client applications. 3. You could be subject to remote attacks, especially if the database uses a standard port. If you go through a server side process such as php or livecode scripts, you only need to have the database accept connections from a single address (typically localhost if the database and script are running on the same server). And only the server side script needs to know the database credentials. Cheers Dave Cragg From pete at lcsql.com Thu Aug 13 18:47:42 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 22:47:42 +0000 Subject: mySQL: PHP or direct access? In-Reply-To: <71FD2720-C434-4D00-8862-641EC7B6435E@earthednet.org> References: <55CD0BA8.6020507@fourthworld.com> <71FD2720-C434-4D00-8862-641EC7B6435E@earthednet.org> Message-ID: Thanks Bill, it does make sense. But doesn't the use of SSL when opening the database connection prevent outside interference with the SQL command? Just trying to understand this before going down the wrong path :-) On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 3:03 PM William Prothero wrote: > Peter: > The answer to the question is ?where does the security failure occur?? The > weak link is the transmission of the command from the local computer to the > server. If you tokenize the command at the local computer level, you still > have the problem. The remote server can be accessed by anybody > (theoretically). So, suppose your remote server will accept an arbitrary > sql command. On your local machine, tokenizing the sql command will prevent > the user of your application from (possibly) creating a destructive sql > command. But, the outside world can still initiate that command because the > source is outside your application. > > I hope that makes sense. > Best, > Bill > > > On Aug 13, 2015, at 2:44 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: > > > > I agree that SQL doesn't have much in the way of data sanitizing but > > Livecode does. I also agree that there must be a good reason why most of > > the world uses server side scripting, just trying to understand exactly > > what that is. > > > > I've been under the impression that if I use the variableslist parameter > > available with the revDatabasexxx calls, I'm protected from SQL injection > > attacks. Even more so if I open the database connection using SSL. The > > proverbial lightbulb will start to come on if that impression is wrong! > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 2:27 PM Richard Gaskin < > ambassador at fourthworld.com> > > wrote: > > > >> Peter Haworth wrote: > >>> It still seems to me that, once security matters are dealt with, the > >> choice > >>> of server side script versus direct connection is more a matter of > >>> preferred application architecture more than anything else. > >> > >> Ah, but there's the rub, "once security matters are dealt with". > >> > >> Correct me if I'm wrong, but as a storage-specific language I don't > >> believe SQL offers as much for sanitizing as PHP, Ruby, LiveCode, and > >> other more general languages. > >> > >> I think there's a good reason most of the world protects their DBs from > >> open exposure to the Internet via an intermediary scripting language, > >> more than just for the convenience of making REST APIs. > >> > >> -- > >> Richard Gaskin > >> Fourth World Systems > >> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > >> ____________________________________________________________________ > >> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From pete at lcsql.com Thu Aug 13 18:56:03 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 22:56:03 +0000 Subject: mySQL: PHP or direct access? In-Reply-To: <7C09D196-EA2C-4F8A-B4CE-535E0FB22122@lacscentre.co.uk> References: <55CD0BA8.6020507@fourthworld.com> <7C09D196-EA2C-4F8A-B4CE-535E0FB22122@lacscentre.co.uk> Message-ID: Thanks Dave. That's good info. My questions are specifically related to mySQL which is able to accept remote connections by design. I see your point about passing the credentials but, as mentioned to Bill, doesn't opening the database connection using SSL take care of that? Same for your point 3. I also see your point about the need to update credentials on each client. Don't have a follow up on that one :-) I do like the idea of only a single connection to the db from the server side script. But don't you then start getting into multiple thread issues for performance reasons? Once again, just trying to understand all the implications before going down the wrong path. On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 3:08 PM Dave Cragg wrote: > > > On 13 Aug 2015, at 22:44, Peter Haworth wrote: > > > > I agree that SQL doesn't have much in the way of data sanitizing but > > Livecode does. I also agree that there must be a good reason why most of > > the world uses server side scripting, just trying to understand exactly > > what that is. > > > > I've been under the impression that if I use the variableslist parameter > > available with the revDatabasexxx calls, I'm protected from SQL injection > > attacks. Even more so if I open the database connection using SSL. The > > proverbial lightbulb will start to come on if that impression is wrong! > > > I don't know your specific setup, but I'm assuming the general case that > the database is accessed over the internet, and there are multiple users of > your application. If your application accesses the database directly, you > will need to configure the database to accept remote connections, and > presumably somehow make the database credentials available to the > application. > > 1. How to keep the credentials secure in the application? > 2. If the credentials have to be updated, you would need to update all > client applications. > 3. You could be subject to remote attacks, especially if the database uses > a standard port. > > If you go through a server side process such as php or livecode scripts, > you only need to have the database accept connections from a single address > (typically localhost if the database and script are running on the same > server). And only the server side script needs to know the database > credentials. > > Cheers > Dave Cragg > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From dochawk at gmail.com Thu Aug 13 19:04:58 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 16:04:58 -0700 Subject: mySQL: PHP or direct access? In-Reply-To: References: <55CD0BA8.6020507@fourthworld.com> <7C09D196-EA2C-4F8A-B4CE-535E0FB22122@lacscentre.co.uk> Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 3:56 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: > I do like the idea of only a single connection to the db from the server > side script. But don't you then start getting into multiple thread issues > for performance reasons? > I will be needing a persistent server for my remote clients, too. My tentative solution is to have multiple instances on different ports, so the initial server connection will direct the client which port to open a socket upon to balance load. Something other than a livecode application is probably a better answer . . . -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk Thu Aug 13 19:16:28 2015 From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 00:16:28 +0100 Subject: mySQL: PHP or direct access? In-Reply-To: References: <55CD0BA8.6020507@fourthworld.com> <7C09D196-EA2C-4F8A-B4CE-535E0FB22122@lacscentre.co.uk> Message-ID: > On 13 Aug 2015, at 23:56, Peter Haworth wrote: > > Thanks Dave. That's good info. > > My questions are specifically related to mySQL which is able to accept > remote connections by design. Sorry if I wasn't clear. I was suggesting that it's generally a bad idea to allow remote connections. This would allow brute force attacks. (Guessing user names and passwords) > > I see your point about passing the credentials but, as mentioned to Bill, > doesn't opening the database connection using SSL take care of that? Same > for your point 3. It wasn't so much the passing of credentials, but how to keep the credentials private. I was imagining a case where the same credentials were shared by all instances of your application. How are they stored in the application. Can a user discover them? If so, the user can access the database directly using the command line or a MySQL utility application (e.g. Navicat) and bypass any sanitizing used by your application. Do you trust your users? :-) > > I also see your point about the need to update credentials on each client. > Don't have a follow up on that one :-) > > I do like the idea of only a single connection to the db from the server > side script. But don't you then start getting into multiple thread issues > for performance reasons? I've never really thought about that. I've never experienced such a problem. > > Once again, just trying to understand all the implications before going > down the wrong path. A good idea. It's also let me review why I set things up the way I do. From selander at tkf.att.ne.jp Thu Aug 13 19:29:55 2015 From: selander at tkf.att.ne.jp (Tim Selander) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 08:29:55 +0900 Subject: Amateur looking for advice on web security/CGI folder.... Message-ID: <55CD2873.2000709@tkf.att.ne.jp> Hi all, I work at a small broadcast production company, and since HC days have made in-house programs that have helped us in a variety of ways. Now using a bit of LC v7 with its unicode support. Would like to have data available to staff who are on the road. A few months ago, asking about sql stuff, Richard Gaskin suggested just using text files for data. In my testing, this has worked great. Loading up sample data sets that are far larger than anything we really need, performance has been fine. Don't need a database. So I avoid all the SQL security discussion all you pros have been having (along with version control, github and a whole bunch of other stuff that makes me realize I'm a real amateur and that we're not in HC's Kansas, anymore....) My remaining question is on keeping text data secure on our web server (on-rev). I use LC scripts in the cgi folder. My understanding is that the cgi folder is secure from any outside breach. Is that understanding correct? So if I store my company's customer data in the cgi folder, it is secure? Thanks, Tim Selander Tokyo, Japan From pete at lcsql.com Thu Aug 13 19:38:54 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 23:38:54 +0000 Subject: mySQL: PHP or direct access? In-Reply-To: References: <55CD0BA8.6020507@fourthworld.com> <7C09D196-EA2C-4F8A-B4CE-535E0FB22122@lacscentre.co.uk> Message-ID: Thanks Dave. I think it's beginning to sink in. In answer to your question, I never trust my users! On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 4:17 PM Dave Cragg wrote: > > > On 13 Aug 2015, at 23:56, Peter Haworth wrote: > > > > Thanks Dave. That's good info. > > > > My questions are specifically related to mySQL which is able to accept > > remote connections by design. > > Sorry if I wasn't clear. I was suggesting that it's generally a bad idea > to allow remote connections. This would allow brute force attacks. > (Guessing user names and passwords) > > > > > I see your point about passing the credentials but, as mentioned to Bill, > > doesn't opening the database connection using SSL take care of that? > Same > > for your point 3. > > It wasn't so much the passing of credentials, but how to keep the > credentials private. I was imagining a case where the same credentials were > shared by all instances of your application. How are they stored in the > application. Can a user discover them? If so, the user can access the > database directly using the command line or a MySQL utility application > (e.g. Navicat) and bypass any sanitizing used by your application. Do you > trust your users? :-) > > > > > I also see your point about the need to update credentials on each > client. > > Don't have a follow up on that one :-) > > > > I do like the idea of only a single connection to the db from the server > > side script. But don't you then start getting into multiple thread > issues > > for performance reasons? > > I've never really thought about that. I've never experienced such a > problem. > > > > > Once again, just trying to understand all the implications before going > > down the wrong path. > > A good idea. It's also let me review why I set things up the way I do. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Thu Aug 13 21:17:44 2015 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 21:17:44 -0400 Subject: MySQL: PHP or direct access? In-Reply-To: References: <55CD0BA8.6020507@fourthworld.com> <7C09D196-EA2C-4F8A-B4CE-535E0FB22122@lacscentre.co.uk> Message-ID: <007401d0d62f$0664a310$132de930$@net> Dave, Thanks for the clarifications. I'm changing my app over to server side middleware using LC server and opening one local connection to the MySQL DB. My client/server model..... 1) The LC server script has the DB username/password and no one can see that. That protects the DB. 2) LC scripts are not in the public_html folder tree. This keeps away prying eyes. 3) The client uses https requests. I am assuming that the URL itself is encrypted so any of the commands to my web service can't be sniffed. 4) All web service requests need a password parameter in the URL parameters. This keeps anyone from issuing commands to the web service. Am I missing anything security wise here? Does this model eliminate the need for parameterized queries? Can I send SQL from the client and be safe or do I need to set up some only known to me data structure for DB requests? Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Thu Aug 13 22:28:01 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 19:28:01 -0700 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: References: <55CBB1F6.8020405@fourthworld.com> <42b03c3c9805dc2379d282cefaed3883@livecode.com> <0774e7c8f4d31e53a4cf090434eb37a5@livecode.com> <80CD8DB6-1D5A-483A-A75E-BAD029505D37@sweattechnologies.com> <980026A3-93D2-4CA9-9E55-75D0D658EE45@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <55CD5231.8020008@ahsoftware.net> On 08/13/2015 04:09 AM, Mark Waddingham wrote: > That's very true. Indeed, perhaps one could argue that GitHub needs > service-hooks which allow customization of merging and diff display. > That general feature there would solve the VCS problem in a natural way > for a number of types of data which are needed in modern software projects. I don't get that. While I rely on github as a common repository, I also use my local repository a lot more often, as does the rest of my team. Merging and diffing tools on github would be nice-to-haves, but don't solve the problems locally of resolving merge conflicts, running gitx, git-blame, etc. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Thu Aug 13 22:34:27 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 19:34:27 -0700 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: <55CCD7A3.9030001@fourthworld.com> References: <2546A69E-E52F-4F00-83EF-64E4719DED49@sweattechnologies.com> <55CCD7A3.9030001@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <55CD53B3.6080105@ahsoftware.net> On 08/13/2015 10:45 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > "A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan > executed next week." > - Gen. George S. Patton "plans are useless, but planning is indispensable." - Gen. Dwight D. Eisenhower -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Thu Aug 13 22:59:36 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 19:59:36 -0700 Subject: lcVCS in the LC Forums In-Reply-To: References: <246C8CFC-3C10-44AB-BA81-71F3699E2855@sweattechnologies.com> <55CC6F5D.3080807@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55CD5998.30303@ahsoftware.net> On 08/13/2015 03:21 AM, Paul Richards wrote: > + 1 ! > > I also think there might be a few more on here that would be willing to contribute to the lcVCS ! I'd also be happy to throw money into this endeavor (Monte - reach out to me and let's talk), but... 1. I really think this needs to be integrated as an out-of-the-box experience into the IDE's menu, and not as a third-party add-on. Even as a plugin, it needs to be officially sanctioned by the mothership or it won't have any traction out in the real world. There is no development tool I use today that doesn't have git (and github) integration built in to an IDE and/or doesn't use a textfile format for all files so that git archives everything effortlessly. 2. If this continues to be developed as a third-party plugin and there's a parallel effort to develop version control by the team, then this whole thing is counter-productive, no matter how good the end product turns out to be. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Thu Aug 13 23:50:20 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 20:50:20 -0700 Subject: Amateur looking for advice on web security/CGI folder.... In-Reply-To: <55CD2873.2000709@tkf.att.ne.jp> References: <55CD2873.2000709@tkf.att.ne.jp> Message-ID: <55CD657C.8070305@ahsoftware.net> On 08/13/2015 04:29 PM, Tim Selander wrote: > My remaining question is on keeping text data secure on our web server > (on-rev). I use LC scripts in the cgi folder. My understanding is that > the cgi folder is secure from any outside breach. Is that understanding > correct? So if I store my company's customer data in the cgi folder, it > is secure? Oh my goodness no. Don't put any data you need to keep secure on a publicly-facing server. Especially not on a shared server ala on-rev. You *are* requiring https already, right? And you've modified the .htaccess file in the public_html folder? And disabled anonymous ftp? -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From selander at tkf.att.ne.jp Fri Aug 14 00:23:18 2015 From: selander at tkf.att.ne.jp (Tim Selander) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 13:23:18 +0900 Subject: Amateur looking for advice on web security/CGI folder.... In-Reply-To: <55CD657C.8070305@ahsoftware.net> References: <55CD2873.2000709@tkf.att.ne.jp> <55CD657C.8070305@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <55CD6D36.8010300@tkf.att.ne.jp> OK, glad I asked the list.... had a hunch my understanding was inadequate. Not using real data for the tests... Guess I need to go study. Any pointers to good articles appreciated! Tim Selander Tokyo, Japan On 15/08/14 12:50, Mark Wieder wrote: > On 08/13/2015 04:29 PM, Tim Selander wrote: > >> My remaining question is on keeping text data secure on our web server >> (on-rev). I use LC scripts in the cgi folder. My understanding is that >> the cgi folder is secure from any outside breach. Is that understanding >> correct? So if I store my company's customer data in the cgi folder, it >> is secure? > > Oh my goodness no. > Don't put any data you need to keep secure on a publicly-facing server. > Especially not on a shared server ala on-rev. > You *are* requiring https already, right? > And you've modified the .htaccess file in the public_html folder? > And disabled anonymous ftp? > From monte at sweattechnologies.com Fri Aug 14 00:24:18 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 14:24:18 +1000 Subject: lcVCS in the LC Forums In-Reply-To: <55CD5998.30303@ahsoftware.net> References: <246C8CFC-3C10-44AB-BA81-71F3699E2855@sweattechnologies.com> <55CC6F5D.3080807@gmail.com> <55CD5998.30303@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <5768A2CB-B62E-4614-86E5-450A9E2AC096@sweattechnologies.com> > I'd also be happy to throw money into this endeavor (Monte - reach out to me and let's talk), but? Thanks Mark > > 1. I really think this needs to be integrated as an out-of-the-box experience into the IDE's menu, and not as a third-party add-on. Even as a plugin, it needs to be officially sanctioned by the mothership or it won't have any traction out in the real world. There is no development tool I use today that doesn't have git (and github) integration built in to an IDE and/or doesn't use a textfile format for all files so that git archives everything effortlessly. I think that would be good and to be honest I don?t care if it?s my stuff or someone else?s as long as we get something functional. > > 2. If this continues to be developed as a third-party plugin and there's a parallel effort to develop version control by the team, then this whole thing is counter-productive, no matter how good the end product turns out to be. There wasn?t a parallel effort. They wanted the import/export in the engine which was fair enough so I?ve only done minor maintenance since then with the plan that once released I?d redo my IDE integration to work with the new format. From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Fri Aug 14 00:43:02 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 21:43:02 -0700 Subject: lcVCS in the LC Forums In-Reply-To: <5768A2CB-B62E-4614-86E5-450A9E2AC096@sweattechnologies.com> References: <246C8CFC-3C10-44AB-BA81-71F3699E2855@sweattechnologies.com> <55CC6F5D.3080807@gmail.com> <55CD5998.30303@ahsoftware.net> <5768A2CB-B62E-4614-86E5-450A9E2AC096@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <55CD71D6.90606@ahsoftware.net> On 08/13/2015 09:24 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > There wasn?t a parallel effort. They wanted the import/export in the engine which was fair enough so I?ve only done minor maintenance since then with the plan that once released I?d redo my IDE integration to work with the new format. Right. I'm up on that history. I'm just saying that if the team is working on this now or plans to in the future while lcVCS development is going on then it's a wasted effort. I'm not saying that the team needs to telegraph their intentions every step of the way (although it would be nice to avoid BAF-style surprises), but I'm not the only one who's put a lot of work into projects that have been torpedoed by new items coming from the mothership that we didn't expect. However, I don't think the team takes user-level version control seriously enough to warrant this being a real problem. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From monte at sweattechnologies.com Fri Aug 14 01:48:02 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 15:48:02 +1000 Subject: lcVCS in the LC Forums In-Reply-To: <55CD71D6.90606@ahsoftware.net> References: <246C8CFC-3C10-44AB-BA81-71F3699E2855@sweattechnologies.com> <55CC6F5D.3080807@gmail.com> <55CD5998.30303@ahsoftware.net> <5768A2CB-B62E-4614-86E5-450A9E2AC096@sweattechnologies.com> <55CD71D6.90606@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <87AA0615-1CA9-4E19-81B4-78C944585857@sweattechnologies.com> > On 14 Aug 2015, at 2:43 pm, Mark Wieder wrote: > > I'm just saying that if the team is working on this now or plans to in the future while lcVCS development is going on then it's a wasted effort. I'm not saying that the team needs to telegraph their intentions every step of the way (although it would be nice to avoid BAF-style surprises), but I'm not the only one who's put a lot of work into projects that have been torpedoed by new items coming from the mothership that we didn't expect. However, I don't think the team takes user-level version control seriously enough to warrant this being a real problem. I get the feeling that the team is hoping that someone comes up with a better idea than the complicated file formats that peter and I came up with and are prepared to wait for that. I think the platform would need to change drastically for anything that appeared clean on GitHub to work. BTW I just realised there?s absolutely nothing stopping us integrating an entire pull request and change review system into the IDE rather than use a web app for that it would probably make more sense to keep it in the IDE. GitHub API can manage pull requests so I assume bitbucket, gitlab etc apis can do so also. From revolution at derbrill.de Fri Aug 14 03:49:28 2015 From: revolution at derbrill.de (Malte Brill) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 09:49:28 +0200 Subject: IPV6 SUPPORT In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2DD985C3-4EF6-428A-AFA8-C6FC4DBD1AAD@derbrill.de> Hi all. I have customers that need to support IPV6 connections. Currently it seems not to be possible to connect to an IPV6 IP via livecode. Anyone else running into the problem? If so, what is the remedy? All the best, Malte From peter.brett at livecode.com Fri Aug 14 04:20:48 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 10:20:48 +0200 Subject: mySQL: PHP or direct =?UTF-8?Q?access=3F?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 2015-08-13 19:16, Peter Haworth wrote: > What are the pluses and minuses you get from using php as a middleman > to > access a mySQL database on a server versus accessing the mySQL database > directly from LC? There are good reasons other than security that you might want to indirect your database operations through some server-side middleware. Let's say you release version 1.0 of your app. It talks directly to your database. Everything is great. A few months later, you realise that in order to add a cool new feature to version 2.0 of your app, you want to make some changes to the way the database is designed. But you can't! There are still lots of copies of version 1.0 out there, and they depend on having the database set up the way they expect. So, you have to make version 2.0 and version 1.0 use separate databases (or even separate database servers), and users can't easily move between app 1.0 and app 2.0. Let's say that instead you provide a server-side middleware. App 1.0 tells the middleware the high-level operation ("change the user profile pic to "), and the middleware converts it into SQL. If the way that the user database is laid out changes in app 2.0, then you can change the middleware to cope with the changes -- and app 1.0 will still carry on working completely happily. The high-level operations it's doing are still the same, but the way they are performed has changed -- but it doesn't need to know about it. I would say that this is almost as important a consideration as security. Given the regularity with which security flaws are found in MySQL, I very strongly recommend *not* exposing MySQL ports to the Internet. Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Engine Development Team From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Fri Aug 14 04:29:26 2015 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 10:29:26 +0200 Subject: IPV6 SUPPORT In-Reply-To: <2DD985C3-4EF6-428A-AFA8-C6FC4DBD1AAD@derbrill.de> References: <2DD985C3-4EF6-428A-AFA8-C6FC4DBD1AAD@derbrill.de> Message-ID: <55CDA6E6.6050604@economy-x-talk.com> Hi Malte, You'll need an external to replicate this: http://discussion.monkeybreadsoftware.de/xojo/NetworkKit/files/Manual.pdf -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer KvK: 50277553 Installer Maker for LiveCode: http://qery.us/468 Buy my new book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner" http://qery.us/3fi LiveCode on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/runrev/ On 8/14/2015 09:49, Malte Brill wrote: > Hi all. > > I have customers that need to support IPV6 connections. Currently it seems not to be possible to connect to an IPV6 IP via livecode. > > Anyone else running into the problem? > > If so, what is the remedy? > > All the best, > > Malte > From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Fri Aug 14 06:04:13 2015 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 18:04:13 +0800 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: <8F52318F-4350-4E1C-B35A-3856D3C25933@earthednet.org> References: <2546A69E-E52F-4F00-83EF-64E4719DED49@sweattechnologies.com> <55CCD7A3.9030001@fourthworld.com> <4384b9e6177bc93a914f236acd4c6680@livecode.com> <29A53E47-15E5-4C5B-9936-93FD2BD0261D@major-k.de> <55CCE2E6.7030905@gmail.com> <154C35AA-FF5F-4282-B20E-7F18274C4B90@earthednet.org> <8F52318F-4350-4E1C-B35A-3856D3C25933@earthednet.org> Message-ID: > illustrates to me that the community is very concerned about the > possibility of a two-tiered livecode environment where we need to pay extra > to get added premium features that we all will want. > I wasn't going to post but this is such and oxymoron, and so prevalent here I just can't constrain myself. I'm not a big Dual Licence user but of those companies I deal with that do such a thing, it seems this is EXACTLY what happens, open source users DON'T get what the premium users are paying for. Lets take just one small example: MySQL, where an Enterprise license only costs US5000 as year. Lets see what features they get that the Community Users don't get: MySQL Fabric MySQL Partitioning MySQL Utilities Storage Engine: NDB MySQL Enterprise Dashboard MySQL Enterprise Advisor MySQL Query Analyzer MySQL Replication Monitor Hot Backup for InnoDB Full, Incremental, Partial, Optimistic Backup Full, Partial, Selective, Hot Selective Restore Encryption and Compression Point-in-Time-Recovery MySQL Enterprise Authentication MySQL Enterprise Encryption MySQL Enterprise Firewall MySQL Enterprise Audit Thread pool HA using Oracle VM Template HA using Oracle Linux and DRBD HA using Oracle Clusterware HA using Solaris Clustering HA using Windows Clustering Configuration and Provisioning Automatic Scaling Management and Monitoring ... and the list goes on and on. For the "World's most popular open source database" there seems to be a MASSIVE difference between the features the Community gets compared to those who purchase and Enterprise license. From my perspective LiveCode Ltd seem to be dragging their feet a bit and if I'd purchased an Enterprise License I might wish to complain that I'm not getting enough 'extras'. I, personally think I've got excellent value for money from LiveCode Ltd. I got what I wanted from the KickStarter campaign plus more. But maybe I just have a far more realistic view on life, the universe, and software development. Where I live and work there is no social security, if you don't work, you don't eat. It's survival of the fittest. The thought of people just leeching off society is just abhorrent. It's interesting how such attitudes make a community work, thrive and survive. So please, when you post negative comments about all that is wrong with the LiveCode Community, please include an estimate of the number of hours a week you spend posting to this list, and the number of hours you spend adding to Community Edition - either directly to the Engine/IDE or some Community Software like lcVCS or GLX2. Because from my perspective the only worrying concern with regard to LiveCode Community is the number of leeches compared to the numbers actually contributing. 1 hr posting / 0 hrs improving LC Community - I'm a leech. I find it interesting that the few open source communities I deal with, all of them suffer the same situation, those that expend the most ($, time and effort) in the Community seem to complain the least (as seen by the few previous posts focusing on what can be done to get lcVCS really working) and those that expend the least complain the most. From skiplondon at gmail.com Fri Aug 14 06:09:25 2015 From: skiplondon at gmail.com (Skip Kimpel) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 06:09:25 -0400 Subject: Amateur looking for advice on web security/CGI folder.... In-Reply-To: <55CD6D36.8010300@tkf.att.ne.jp> References: <55CD2873.2000709@tkf.att.ne.jp> <55CD657C.8070305@ahsoftware.net> <55CD6D36.8010300@tkf.att.ne.jp> Message-ID: I have been forced to use this method in the past and when I do, I encrypt the data before I send it to the server and decrypt it after I retrieve it. This will at least keep the data secure if you have to go that route. SKIP KIMPEL > On Aug 14, 2015, at 12:23 AM, Tim Selander wrote: > > OK, glad I asked the list.... had a hunch my understanding was inadequate. > > Not using real data for the tests... > > Guess I need to go study. Any pointers to good articles appreciated! > > Tim Selander > Tokyo, Japan > >> On 15/08/14 12:50, Mark Wieder wrote: >>> On 08/13/2015 04:29 PM, Tim Selander wrote: >>> >>> My remaining question is on keeping text data secure on our web server >>> (on-rev). I use LC scripts in the cgi folder. My understanding is that >>> the cgi folder is secure from any outside breach. Is that understanding >>> correct? So if I store my company's customer data in the cgi folder, it >>> is secure? >> >> Oh my goodness no. >> Don't put any data you need to keep secure on a publicly-facing server. >> Especially not on a shared server ala on-rev. >> You *are* requiring https already, right? >> And you've modified the .htaccess file in the public_html folder? >> And disabled anonymous ftp? > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From peterwawood at gmail.com Fri Aug 14 06:31:35 2015 From: peterwawood at gmail.com (Peter W A Wood) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 18:31:35 +0800 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card Message-ID: <43CD8158-FDFC-4DB0-A695-D8E8832C2E92@gmail.com> Following LiveCode?s announcement of its Business Application Framework, there has been quite a few comments regarding the fulfilment of promises made during the Kickstarter open source campaign. It?s a long time since the campaign and it is easy to get an incorrect perception. So I thought that it would be worth going back, seeing what was promised and what had been delivered. I?ve come up with a report card based on the Kickstarter web pages, LiveCode?s road map and from comments made on the mailing lists and forums by LiveCode staff. I relied on my memory for the latter so the status that I?ve noted may not be quite correct. By posting it to the mailing list, I?m sure that any misperceptions I might have will get corrected. I hope so as I much prefer to have a clear picture of where things stand. The first thing to note is that all the Kickstarter rewards have been delivered. There seems to have been three major deliverables promised in the main campaign: Deliverable Status Re-engineer the whole platform Completed A new technology: ?Open Language? Early alpha of the pre-requisite LiveCode Builder released (LiveCode 8.0) Open Language will be in a release after LiveCode 8.0 A new visual editor Early alpha released (LiveCode 8.0) There were a number of deliverables promised through stretch goals which were met: Deliverable Status Resolution Independence Completed Pluggable Themes Pluggable Themes will be in a release after LiveCode 8.0 Cocoa Completed Physics Engine Physics Engine will be in a release after LiveCode 8.0 Windows/Phone 8 Theme Windows/Phone 8 Theme will be in a release after LiveCode 8.0 Vector Shape Object Vector Shape Object will be in a release after LiveCode 8.0 Reworked Multimedia Support New Player Completed on OS X. Windows/Linux ??? Multi Channel Sound OS X : Linux : Windows ??? Sound Recording ??? New Browser Control OS X, Windows completed. Linux with LiveCode 8.0 I?d appreciate if somebody could let me know the status of the items about which I?m unclear and any mistakes I have made. Regards Peter From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Fri Aug 14 08:12:01 2015 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 08:12:01 -0400 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: References: <2546A69E-E52F-4F00-83EF-64E4719DED49@sweattechnologies.com> <55CCD7A3.9030001@fourthworld.com> <4384b9e6177bc93a914f236acd4c6680@livecode.com> <29A53E47-15E5-4C5B-9936-93FD2BD0261D@major-k.de> <55CCE2E6.7030905@gmail.com> <154C35AA-FF5F-4282-B20E-7F18274C4B90@earthednet.org> <8F52318F-4350-4E1C-B35A-3856D3C25933@earthednet.org> Message-ID: Not contributing time and code does not necessarily make one a leech! Many of us contributed monetarily to the kickstarter, and I believe that earns us just as many beech points as anybody. Climb down off that high horse. We can hardly see you way up there. Everyone should be able to have input, IMHO. On Aug 14, 2015 6:04 AM, "Kay C Lan" wrote: > > illustrates to me that the community is very concerned about the > > possibility of a two-tiered livecode environment where we need to pay > extra > > to get added premium features that we all will want. > > > > I wasn't going to post but this is such and oxymoron, and so prevalent here > I just can't constrain myself. > > I'm not a big Dual Licence user but of those companies I deal with that do > such a thing, it seems this is EXACTLY what happens, open source users > DON'T get what the premium users are paying for. Lets take just one small > example: MySQL, where an Enterprise license only costs US5000 as year. Lets > see what features they get that the Community Users don't get: > > MySQL Fabric > MySQL Partitioning > MySQL Utilities > Storage Engine: NDB > MySQL Enterprise Dashboard > MySQL Enterprise Advisor > MySQL Query Analyzer > MySQL Replication Monitor > Hot Backup for InnoDB > Full, Incremental, Partial, Optimistic Backup > Full, Partial, Selective, Hot Selective Restore > Encryption and Compression > Point-in-Time-Recovery > MySQL Enterprise Authentication > MySQL Enterprise Encryption > MySQL Enterprise Firewall > MySQL Enterprise Audit > Thread pool > HA using Oracle VM Template > HA using Oracle Linux and DRBD > HA using Oracle Clusterware > HA using Solaris Clustering > HA using Windows Clustering > Configuration and Provisioning > Automatic Scaling > Management and Monitoring > ... > and the list goes on and on. > > For the "World's most popular open source database" there seems to be a > MASSIVE difference between the features the Community gets compared to > those who purchase and Enterprise license. From my perspective LiveCode Ltd > seem to be dragging their feet a bit and if I'd purchased an Enterprise > License I might wish to complain that I'm not getting enough 'extras'. > > I, personally think I've got excellent value for money from LiveCode Ltd. I > got what I wanted from the KickStarter campaign plus more. But maybe I just > have a far more realistic view on life, the universe, and software > development. > > Where I live and work there is no social security, if you don't work, you > don't eat. It's survival of the fittest. The thought of people just > leeching off society is just abhorrent. It's interesting how such attitudes > make a community work, thrive and survive. > > So please, when you post negative comments about all that is wrong with the > LiveCode Community, please include an estimate of the number of hours a > week you spend posting to this list, and the number of hours you spend > adding to Community Edition - either directly to the Engine/IDE or some > Community Software like lcVCS or GLX2. Because from my perspective the only > worrying concern with regard to LiveCode Community is the number of leeches > compared to the numbers actually contributing. > > 1 hr posting / 0 hrs improving LC Community - I'm a leech. > > I find it interesting that the few open source communities I deal with, all > of them suffer the same situation, those that expend the most ($, time and > effort) in the Community seem to complain the least (as seen by the few > previous posts focusing on what can be done to get lcVCS really working) > and those that expend the least complain the most. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From livfoss at mac.com Fri Aug 14 08:24:01 2015 From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 14:24:01 +0200 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: References: <2546A69E-E52F-4F00-83EF-64E4719DED49@sweattechnologies.com> <55CCD7A3.9030001@fourthworld.com> <4384b9e6177bc93a914f236acd4c6680@livecode.com> <29A53E47-15E5-4C5B-9936-93FD2BD0261D@major-k.de> <55CCE2E6.7030905@gmail.com> <154C35AA-FF5F-4282-B20E-7F18274C4B90@earthednet.org> <8F52318F-4350-4E1C-B35A-3856D3C25933@earthednet.org> Message-ID: Well said! Graham (Indy licence holder and Kickstarter contributor). > On 14 Aug 2015, at 14:12, Roger Eller wrote: > > Not contributing time and code does not necessarily make one a leech! Many > of us contributed monetarily to the kickstarter, and I believe that earns > us just as many beech points as anybody. Climb down off that high horse. > We can hardly see you way up there. > > Everyone should be able to have input, IMHO. > On Aug 14, 2015 6:04 AM, "Kay C Lan" wrote: > >>> illustrates to me that the community is very concerned about the >>> possibility of a two-tiered livecode environment where we need to pay >> extra >>> to get added premium features that we all will want. >>> >> >> I wasn't going to post but this is such and oxymoron, and so prevalent here >> I just can't constrain myself. >> >> I'm not a big Dual Licence user but of those companies I deal with that do >> such a thing, it seems this is EXACTLY what happens, open source users >> DON'T get what the premium users are paying for. Lets take just one small >> example: MySQL, where an Enterprise license only costs US5000 as year. Lets >> see what features they get that the Community Users don't get: >> >> MySQL Fabric >> MySQL Partitioning >> MySQL Utilities >> Storage Engine: NDB >> MySQL Enterprise Dashboard >> MySQL Enterprise Advisor >> MySQL Query Analyzer >> MySQL Replication Monitor >> Hot Backup for InnoDB >> Full, Incremental, Partial, Optimistic Backup >> Full, Partial, Selective, Hot Selective Restore >> Encryption and Compression >> Point-in-Time-Recovery >> MySQL Enterprise Authentication >> MySQL Enterprise Encryption >> MySQL Enterprise Firewall >> MySQL Enterprise Audit >> Thread pool >> HA using Oracle VM Template >> HA using Oracle Linux and DRBD >> HA using Oracle Clusterware >> HA using Solaris Clustering >> HA using Windows Clustering >> Configuration and Provisioning >> Automatic Scaling >> Management and Monitoring >> ... >> and the list goes on and on. >> >> For the "World's most popular open source database" there seems to be a >> MASSIVE difference between the features the Community gets compared to >> those who purchase and Enterprise license. From my perspective LiveCode Ltd >> seem to be dragging their feet a bit and if I'd purchased an Enterprise >> License I might wish to complain that I'm not getting enough 'extras'. >> >> I, personally think I've got excellent value for money from LiveCode Ltd. I >> got what I wanted from the KickStarter campaign plus more. But maybe I just >> have a far more realistic view on life, the universe, and software >> development. >> >> Where I live and work there is no social security, if you don't work, you >> don't eat. It's survival of the fittest. The thought of people just >> leeching off society is just abhorrent. It's interesting how such attitudes >> make a community work, thrive and survive. >> >> So please, when you post negative comments about all that is wrong with the >> LiveCode Community, please include an estimate of the number of hours a >> week you spend posting to this list, and the number of hours you spend >> adding to Community Edition - either directly to the Engine/IDE or some >> Community Software like lcVCS or GLX2. Because from my perspective the only >> worrying concern with regard to LiveCode Community is the number of leeches >> compared to the numbers actually contributing. >> >> 1 hr posting / 0 hrs improving LC Community - I'm a leech. >> >> I find it interesting that the few open source communities I deal with, all >> of them suffer the same situation, those that expend the most ($, time and >> effort) in the Community seem to complain the least (as seen by the few >> previous posts focusing on what can be done to get lcVCS really working) >> and those that expend the least complain the most. >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bonnmike at gmail.com Fri Aug 14 09:16:18 2015 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 07:16:18 -0600 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: References: <2546A69E-E52F-4F00-83EF-64E4719DED49@sweattechnologies.com> <55CCD7A3.9030001@fourthworld.com> <4384b9e6177bc93a914f236acd4c6680@livecode.com> <29A53E47-15E5-4C5B-9936-93FD2BD0261D@major-k.de> <55CCE2E6.7030905@gmail.com> <154C35AA-FF5F-4282-B20E-7F18274C4B90@earthednet.org> <8F52318F-4350-4E1C-B35A-3856D3C25933@earthednet.org> Message-ID: As you read this, keep in mind I have no direct knowledge of the financial standing of RunRev, so its all supposition. (Plus, i'm not a big brain like most on the list, so ignore me if you wish) Lets get this out of the way first: Contributions here, and in the forums, as well as monetary contributions during kickstarter while NOT being an engine contributor <> leaching. Even just quietly using lc (community or otherwise) without posting here is a contribution. Everyone I know, who has even a passing interest in programming knows about livecode now. Some are rather sick of hearing about it. While I too fear a growing feature disparity between community and commercial, there is truth when its stated.. "it's open source. if you want it, add it." Next: Alas, appearance matters. I can understand why people are freaking out. Runrev has a pool of available man hours that can be used. A finite resource. And it appears that man hours that could have been used to further the goals of the kickstarter have been used in an effort to differentiate the 2 versions instead. In this case, one should take a deeper look. Nobody doubts that expenses and time have gone WAY beyond what was expected. I would guess that the phrase "bleeding money" is a fairly accurate description of the situation. While its not exactly the same business model, in manufacturing I've seen companies that are making a product that costs more to make than they're getting in return, and these same companies INCREASE production on these very items that are bleeding them dry. A loss leader can be great for marketing, but you MUST be able to make enough profit from other areas to cover the costs. This is what is happening here. Kevin and Runrev are looking for ways to offset the tremendous cost of much needed retooling, and introducing new product features to hopefully increase their income flow to offset the huge outgo. Could they have shoved every possible resource towards the kickstarter goals, ignoring all other needs? Yep. Would it have been a mistake? Almost surely. On Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 6:24 AM, Graham Samuel wrote: > Well said! > > Graham > (Indy licence holder and Kickstarter contributor). > > > On 14 Aug 2015, at 14:12, Roger Eller > wrote: > > > > Not contributing time and code does not necessarily make one a leech! > Many > > of us contributed monetarily to the kickstarter, and I believe that earns > > us just as many beech points as anybody. Climb down off that high horse. > > We can hardly see you way up there. > > > > Everyone should be able to have input, IMHO. > > On Aug 14, 2015 6:04 AM, "Kay C Lan" wrote: > > > >>> illustrates to me that the community is very concerned about the > >>> possibility of a two-tiered livecode environment where we need to pay > >> extra > >>> to get added premium features that we all will want. > >>> > >> > >> I wasn't going to post but this is such and oxymoron, and so prevalent > here > >> I just can't constrain myself. > >> > >> I'm not a big Dual Licence user but of those companies I deal with that > do > >> such a thing, it seems this is EXACTLY what happens, open source users > >> DON'T get what the premium users are paying for. Lets take just one > small > >> example: MySQL, where an Enterprise license only costs US5000 as year. > Lets > >> see what features they get that the Community Users don't get: > >> > >> MySQL Fabric > >> MySQL Partitioning > >> MySQL Utilities > >> Storage Engine: NDB > >> MySQL Enterprise Dashboard > >> MySQL Enterprise Advisor > >> MySQL Query Analyzer > >> MySQL Replication Monitor > >> Hot Backup for InnoDB > >> Full, Incremental, Partial, Optimistic Backup > >> Full, Partial, Selective, Hot Selective Restore > >> Encryption and Compression > >> Point-in-Time-Recovery > >> MySQL Enterprise Authentication > >> MySQL Enterprise Encryption > >> MySQL Enterprise Firewall > >> MySQL Enterprise Audit > >> Thread pool > >> HA using Oracle VM Template > >> HA using Oracle Linux and DRBD > >> HA using Oracle Clusterware > >> HA using Solaris Clustering > >> HA using Windows Clustering > >> Configuration and Provisioning > >> Automatic Scaling > >> Management and Monitoring > >> ... > >> and the list goes on and on. > >> > >> For the "World's most popular open source database" there seems to be a > >> MASSIVE difference between the features the Community gets compared to > >> those who purchase and Enterprise license. From my perspective LiveCode > Ltd > >> seem to be dragging their feet a bit and if I'd purchased an Enterprise > >> License I might wish to complain that I'm not getting enough 'extras'. > >> > >> I, personally think I've got excellent value for money from LiveCode > Ltd. I > >> got what I wanted from the KickStarter campaign plus more. But maybe I > just > >> have a far more realistic view on life, the universe, and software > >> development. > >> > >> Where I live and work there is no social security, if you don't work, > you > >> don't eat. It's survival of the fittest. The thought of people just > >> leeching off society is just abhorrent. It's interesting how such > attitudes > >> make a community work, thrive and survive. > >> > >> So please, when you post negative comments about all that is wrong with > the > >> LiveCode Community, please include an estimate of the number of hours a > >> week you spend posting to this list, and the number of hours you spend > >> adding to Community Edition - either directly to the Engine/IDE or some > >> Community Software like lcVCS or GLX2. Because from my perspective the > only > >> worrying concern with regard to LiveCode Community is the number of > leeches > >> compared to the numbers actually contributing. > >> > >> 1 hr posting / 0 hrs improving LC Community - I'm a leech. > >> > >> I find it interesting that the few open source communities I deal with, > all > >> of them suffer the same situation, those that expend the most ($, time > and > >> effort) in the Community seem to complain the least (as seen by the few > >> previous posts focusing on what can be done to get lcVCS really working) > >> and those that expend the least complain the most. > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk Fri Aug 14 09:43:53 2015 From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 14:43:53 +0100 Subject: MySQL: PHP or direct access? In-Reply-To: <007401d0d62f$0664a310$132de930$@net> References: <55CD0BA8.6020507@fourthworld.com> <7C09D196-EA2C-4F8A-B4CE-535E0FB22122@lacscentre.co.uk> <007401d0d62f$0664a310$132de930$@net> Message-ID: <376A6CAE-A24F-4CD9-BD8A-6FEB73481D82@lacscentre.co.uk> Ralph, See Peter's comments about non-security considerations too. Also note I have no security qualifications other than a mix of paranoia and a sometimes suspicious mind. > 3) The client uses https requests. I am assuming that the URL itself is > encrypted so any of the commands to my web service can't be sniffed. I'm not sure about this. It probably can't be sniffed by a third party, but I'm wondering if it can be viewed by the user. For example, in a browser, you can usually use development tools to see the content of all requests, even if using https. If your application is structured as a standalone file plus a stack in a separate file, and all the functionality is in the separate file, can a user open that stack in the LC environment and add some url logging functionality to see what is going on? Perhaps. I'd assume the user can see what's happening. > Does this model eliminate the need for parameterized queries? > Can I send SQL from the client and be safe or do I need to set up some only > known to me data structure for DB requests? I'd answer "no" to both questions. The typical way to handle this is to have any sql created in the server-side script. The then client app would make a url request that identifies the action to be taken and any parameters that are required. The server script would do some/all of the following: - authenticate the user - run authorization checks (e.g. if the user passes in an ID for some resource, check that this user is authorized to see that resource, so Johnny can't see Susie's test results or whatever) - sanitize any parameters that might be used in the sql query (using parameterized queries, or some other method) Cheers Dave From sundown at pacifier.com Fri Aug 14 10:13:19 2015 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 07:13:19 -0700 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: References: <2546A69E-E52F-4F00-83EF-64E4719DED49@sweattechnologies.com> <55CCD7A3.9030001@fourthworld.com> <4384b9e6177bc93a914f236acd4c6680@livecode.com> <29A53E47-15E5-4C5B-9936-93FD2BD0261D@major-k.de> <55CCE2E6.7030905@gmail.com> <154C35AA-FF5F-4282-B20E-7F18274C4B90@earthednet.org> <8F52318F-4350-4E1C-B35A-3856D3C25933@earthednet.org> Message-ID: <53A49593-38D8-4275-8582-3B57A1E65D12@pacifier.com> Receiving Social Security benefits is not leaching off of society. You pay in until you retire and then you receive a monthly check base on how much you paid in. Those who spent their life leaching off society and not paying in very much get nothing or very little. The problem in America with Social Security is politicians have robbed it and are complaining theres is nothing left to steal and are having trouble paying those who they owe. They are not complaint about their pensions and will they will get paid not matter how broke America is. If you are paying into a pension your whole life are you going to call yourself a leach when you start collecting it? John Balgenorth On Aug 14, 2015, at 3:04 AM, Kay C Lan wrote: > > Where I live and work there is no social security, if you don't work, you > don't eat. It's survival of the fittest. The thought of people just > leeching off society is just abhorrent. It's interesting how such attitudes > make a community work, thrive and survive From t.heaford at icloud.com Fri Aug 14 10:37:58 2015 From: t.heaford at icloud.com (Terence Heaford) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 15:37:58 +0100 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: <53A49593-38D8-4275-8582-3B57A1E65D12@pacifier.com> References: <2546A69E-E52F-4F00-83EF-64E4719DED49@sweattechnologies.com> <55CCD7A3.9030001@fourthworld.com> <4384b9e6177bc93a914f236acd4c6680@livecode.com> <29A53E47-15E5-4C5B-9936-93FD2BD0261D@major-k.de> <55CCE2E6.7030905@gmail.com> <154C35AA-FF5F-4282-B20E-7F18274C4B90@earthednet.org> <8F52318F-4350-4E1C-B35A-3856D3C25933@earthednet.org> <53A49593-38D8-4275-8582-3B57A1E65D12@pacifier.com> Message-ID: <7719ADE6-CFD1-479C-A9B7-BCBC70FD9DC4@icloud.com> > On 14 Aug 2015, at 15:13, JB wrote: > > If you are paying into a pension your whole life are you going > to call yourself a leach when you start collecting it? Is there an analogy here. In the UK people down the years have been paying into a pension be it Private or be it Government and were promised a pension of a certain size at the end of it. For whatever reason as the time approaches they have been told that they have not paid enough in and cannot now expect the same level of pension. :) :) :) All the best Terry From alain.vezina at logilangue.com Fri Aug 14 10:44:14 2015 From: alain.vezina at logilangue.com (Alain Vezina) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 10:44:14 -0400 Subject: error ITMS-90511 Message-ID: <855D936A-6A59-4CD0-B38F-48021A6CCBD1@logilangue.com> Hi all, I submited an upgrade of a Mac app in which I used a data base and revBrowser. It was rejected and I received an error message telling that ? dbsqlite.bundle is already in use by another application. The message is the same for revdb.bundle. I tried with LC 6.6.5 / 6.7.3 / 6.7.5 / 7.0.5 and I got the same message ERROR ITMS-90511 Anyone has ever experienced that problem? Is there a solution? Alain Vezina Logilangue From sundown at pacifier.com Fri Aug 14 10:46:36 2015 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 07:46:36 -0700 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: <7719ADE6-CFD1-479C-A9B7-BCBC70FD9DC4@icloud.com> References: <2546A69E-E52F-4F00-83EF-64E4719DED49@sweattechnologies.com> <55CCD7A3.9030001@fourthworld.com> <4384b9e6177bc93a914f236acd4c6680@livecode.com> <29A53E47-15E5-4C5B-9936-93FD2BD0261D@major-k.de> <55CCE2E6.7030905@gmail.com> <154C35AA-FF5F-4282-B20E-7F18274C4B90@earthednet.org> <8F52318F-4350-4E1C-B35A-3856D3C25933@earthednet.org> <53A49593-38D8-4275-8582-3B57A1E65D12@pacifier.com> <7719ADE6-CFD1-479C-A9B7-BCBC70FD9DC4@icloud.com> Message-ID: And in every case of this type of theft you will probably find the global private management company Booz, Allen and Hamilton which was founded in Chicago, Illinois are connected. John Balgenorth On Aug 14, 2015, at 7:37 AM, Terence Heaford wrote: > >> On 14 Aug 2015, at 15:13, JB wrote: >> >> If you are paying into a pension your whole life are you going >> to call yourself a leach when you start collecting it? > > Is there an analogy here. > > In the UK people down the years have been paying into a pension be it Private or be it Government and were promised a pension of a certain size at the end of it. > > For whatever reason as the time approaches they have been told that they have not paid enough in and cannot now expect the same level of pension. > > :) :) :) > > > All the best > > Terry > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From mkoob at rogers.com Fri Aug 14 11:09:17 2015 From: mkoob at rogers.com (Martin Koob) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 08:09:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: <4C8CDE15-C200-4EA8-9B59-159858F53670@sweattechnologies.com> References: <55CB9FA1.30607@fourthworld.com> <2BFBCFB7-45E1-4113-9B97-21487C99A53C@m-r-d.de> <55CBAD21.5090305@fourthworld.com> <55CBB39C.40905@fourthworld.com> <2F7CB0D2-6DE0-4918-BAD3-DA1149C5DA2E@sweattechnologies.com> <55CBD269.6010407@fourthworld.com> <4C8CDE15-C200-4EA8-9B59-159858F53670@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <1439564957521-4695027.post@n4.nabble.com> Monte Goulding wrote > People I have worked on projects with using lcVCS like Trevor and Martin > seem to love being about to review their change history etc. Martin didn?t > have any version control experience and now works largely on his own but > continues to find it helpful. Trevor simply wasn?t interested in working > with anyone else unless he had version control. My introduction to version control was through using lcVCS. I have a fairly complex Mac OS X application based on the glxApplicationFramework that has 12 mainstacks including my program stack which itself has 26 substacks. Version control prior to using lcVCS consisted of saving backups in numbered folders. Tracking changes involved writing notes for each version in text files. This was getting unwieldy and time consuming. Using lcVCS has been a game changer. I can go back and see change history and even go back and load older versions of the application from the repository. I use bitbucket to keep track of bugs and features I am planning. There I can write notes there as I work on the issue then when I commit the changes to the repository the note I write as part of the commit is added to the issue. Monte Goulding wrote > The project from my perspective has two parts. lcVCS is the engine that > manages the file format and is GPL. Then I have an IDE plugin and command > line interface that I was intending to sell. The plugin provided some cool > git integration into the IDE and the command line interface provided > something for git hooks to rebuild your stacks when you merge or checkout > and to export them asynchronously after an IDE save of the stack so you > don?t interrupt your workflow with stackFile exports. The IDE plugin is the real gem. The automatic export of the stacks after an IDE save means you don't really have to change your workflow. I use SourceTree to view the repository and commit the files to the repository. Once I make changes to the application and save them I can see the changes in source tree as uncommitted changes. This allows me to see all of the changes I am making in one place rather than click through the multiple script editor tabs and try to remember what I did 2 hours ago. On top of this you can see the history of committed changes right in the LiveCode script editor. Hovering over the line numbers you can see the note that was entered with the commit along with the author's name. An added button in the script editor allows you to view the history for that script with the differences between the old script and revised script. I primarily work alone but I do occasionally hire Monte to do some coding for me for specific features. lcVCS allows me to follow as Monte makes changes and see how those integrate into my application and keep my local stacks up to date with his changes. Even if I was working totally alone on this I could not see myself going back to not using a VCS. I think that lcVCS would be beneficial to LiveCode developers in teams or working alone and for developers at a range of levels of expertise. I am still not that versed in VCS and was quite impressed with my self when I made a branch to work on a new feature and merged it back into the main branch. Monte Goulding wrote > The market for such a thing is quite small compared to the work that goes > in so the deal to sell it to LiveCode where it would become a regular part > of the IDE was appealing but it didn?t come off. At this stage if I were > to get stuck into it again I?d like to merge both projects and release > under GPL but I?d need some financial backing to afford the time... So there seems to be some excitement about lcVCS. We can't expect Monte to work on this out of the goodness of his heart. There has to be funding to pay for his time to develop it and even make a profit on it. l don't understand the reluctance of software developers to pay for software. I have recently started playing "Boom Beach" for free and I could continue to play for free forever. However I paid $12.00 to purchase some 'diamonds' to progress faster in the game. The reason I did this and do for other games periodically is I know there is are developers spending time to create this software and with the goal of making a living off of it. I am in the same albeit much smaller boat than they. I too am spending my time developing software that I want other people to see as valuable and pay me for it so I can make a living. Now SuperCell with more resources and much larger user base, is in a different league than the Monte's or the Malte's of the LiveCode community or even than the LiveCode team. So it is even more necessary for members of the community to support their work financially. Monte has not charged for lcVCS to this point but I will happily pay him for it when there is an opportunity to do so. His original plan to provide the lcVCS engine as GPL and then charge for the IDE plugin and command line interface. I would be happy to pay for the plugin given the value it adds and time it saves. Would people who want version control for LiveCode be willing to commit up front and pay for the lcVCS plugin or some other payment option or commit in a funding campaign? If there are not enough people willing to commit the funds this all becomes a moot discussion. Martin Koob -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Business-Application-Framework-tp4694846p4695027.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From prothero at earthednet.org Fri Aug 14 12:05:34 2015 From: prothero at earthednet.org (Earthednet-wp) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 09:05:34 -0700 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: References: <2546A69E-E52F-4F00-83EF-64E4719DED49@sweattechnologies.com> <55CCD7A3.9030001@fourthworld.com> <4384b9e6177bc93a914f236acd4c6680@livecode.com> <29A53E47-15E5-4C5B-9936-93FD2BD0261D@major-k.de> <55CCE2E6.7030905@gmail.com> <154C35AA-FF5F-4282-B20E-7F18274C4B90@earthednet.org> <8F52318F-4350-4E1C-B35A-3856D3C25933@earthednet.org> Message-ID: <99EAFB74-ED55-4F24-B3C2-FF0396C5A016@earthednet.org> Kay, Good points, after ignoring the rhetoric. There could be argument about which features are included in all versions. Seems like zip and PDF support would be part of any modern authoring system. I contributed a substantial (for me) amount to the Kickstarter, appreciate the need for the mothership to be solvent financially, and care about the future of livecode, now that I have invested heavily in it. That seems to be the thrust of most of the folks posting comments on this issue. Best, Bill William Prothero http://es.earthednet.org On Aug 14, 2015, at 3:04 AM, Kay C Lan wrote: >> illustrates to me that the community is very concerned about the >> possibility of a two-tiered livecode environment where we need to pay extra >> to get added premium features that we all will want. > > I wasn't going to post but this is such and oxymoron, and so prevalent here > I just can't constrain myself. > > I'm not a big Dual Licence user but of those companies I deal with that do > such a thing, it seems this is EXACTLY what happens, open source users > DON'T get what the premium users are paying for. Lets take just one small > example: MySQL, where an Enterprise license only costs US5000 as year. Lets > see what features they get that the Community Users don't get: > > MySQL Fabric > MySQL Partitioning > MySQL Utilities > Storage Engine: NDB > MySQL Enterprise Dashboard > MySQL Enterprise Advisor > MySQL Query Analyzer > MySQL Replication Monitor > Hot Backup for InnoDB > Full, Incremental, Partial, Optimistic Backup > Full, Partial, Selective, Hot Selective Restore > Encryption and Compression > Point-in-Time-Recovery > MySQL Enterprise Authentication > MySQL Enterprise Encryption > MySQL Enterprise Firewall > MySQL Enterprise Audit > Thread pool > HA using Oracle VM Template > HA using Oracle Linux and DRBD > HA using Oracle Clusterware > HA using Solaris Clustering > HA using Windows Clustering > Configuration and Provisioning > Automatic Scaling > Management and Monitoring > ... > and the list goes on and on. > > For the "World's most popular open source database" there seems to be a > MASSIVE difference between the features the Community gets compared to > those who purchase and Enterprise license. From my perspective LiveCode Ltd > seem to be dragging their feet a bit and if I'd purchased an Enterprise > License I might wish to complain that I'm not getting enough 'extras'. > > I, personally think I've got excellent value for money from LiveCode Ltd. I > got what I wanted from the KickStarter campaign plus more. But maybe I just > have a far more realistic view on life, the universe, and software > development. > > Where I live and work there is no social security, if you don't work, you > don't eat. It's survival of the fittest. The thought of people just > leeching off society is just abhorrent. It's interesting how such attitudes > make a community work, thrive and survive. > > So please, when you post negative comments about all that is wrong with the > LiveCode Community, please include an estimate of the number of hours a > week you spend posting to this list, and the number of hours you spend > adding to Community Edition - either directly to the Engine/IDE or some > Community Software like lcVCS or GLX2. Because from my perspective the only > worrying concern with regard to LiveCode Community is the number of leeches > compared to the numbers actually contributing. > > 1 hr posting / 0 hrs improving LC Community - I'm a leech. > > I find it interesting that the few open source communities I deal with, all > of them suffer the same situation, those that expend the most ($, time and > effort) in the Community seem to complain the least (as seen by the few > previous posts focusing on what can be done to get lcVCS really working) > and those that expend the least complain the most. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Aug 14 12:40:16 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 16:40:16 +0000 Subject: Extracting a reference to a stack In-Reply-To: <55C687F9.2000302@fourthworld.com> References: <14f0d8feb5f-7312-43e84@webprd-a59.mail.aol.com> <55C687F9.2000302@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <88426628-E4A4-4D83-87FE-FCC56AB014A2@iotecdigital.com> I do the same thing, except mine isn't a one liner. (Show off!) Bob S > On Aug 8, 2015, at 15:51 , Richard Gaskin wrote: > > dunbarx wrote: > >> Wait just a doggone minute. The long id of a control contains the stack reference. > > Yep - and being a lazy person this is how I get the stack reference: > > function ObjectStack pObj > return char (offset(" of stack ", pObj)+4) to -1 of pObj > end ObjectStack > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From fraser.gordon at livecode.com Fri Aug 14 13:09:48 2015 From: fraser.gordon at livecode.com (Fraser Gordon) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 18:09:48 +0100 Subject: RELEASE: 7.1.0-RC-1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <913983FD-22E0-47BD-8E9C-D2463F71A12E@livecode.com> Dear List Members, We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 7.1.0 RC 1. *Warning, this is a development release with new features which have the potential to cause issues. Please ensure you backup your stacks before testing this release.* New Features and changes: - Mobile socket support - mobileLaunchData command to support Android Intents - enhanced mobile camera support in Indy and Business editions - ?Commercial? edition is now branded as ?Indy? - release of the new Business License Edition with a test version of the Business Application Framework Getting this release: Installers can be downloaded from https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ Warm regards, The LiveCode Team From pete at lcsql.com Fri Aug 14 13:31:19 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 17:31:19 +0000 Subject: mySQL: PHP or direct access? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks Peter, that is indeed an important consideration. I believe there are ways to code around that but nevertheless the single connection middleware method would certainly be less complicated. I think I am now realizing the full implications of the direct and indirect methods of connecting to a database. It's been a very interesting conversation and I'm thinking it may not be quite over yet. Nevertheless I think I now have a set of best practices to adhere to. Next decision - php or lc server. lc server is attractive since I already know the language but suffers from the drawback that not many web hosts support it. Now that I'm seeing the benefits of middleware for db access, my next thought is why bother with an SQL implementation that supports direct network access when we're not using direct network access? For example, wouldn't SQLite do just as good a job? I've read that SQLite is used for many web sites supporting fairly high db access rates, maybe in the range of several hundred thousand a day. On Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 1:21 AM Peter TB Brett wrote: > On 2015-08-13 19:16, Peter Haworth wrote: > > What are the pluses and minuses you get from using php as a middleman > > to > > access a mySQL database on a server versus accessing the mySQL database > > directly from LC? > > There are good reasons other than security that you might want to > indirect your database operations through some server-side middleware. > > Let's say you release version 1.0 of your app. It talks directly to > your database. Everything is great. > > A few months later, you realise that in order to add a cool new feature > to version 2.0 of your app, you want to make some changes to the way the > database is designed. But you can't! There are still lots of copies of > version 1.0 out there, and they depend on having the database set up the > way they expect. So, you have to make version 2.0 and version 1.0 use > separate databases (or even separate database servers), and users can't > easily move between app 1.0 and app 2.0. > > Let's say that instead you provide a server-side middleware. App 1.0 > tells the middleware the high-level operation ("change the user profile > pic to "), and the middleware converts it into SQL. > > If the way that the user database is laid out changes in app 2.0, then > you can change the middleware to cope with the changes -- and app 1.0 > will still carry on working completely happily. The high-level > operations it's doing are still the same, but the way they are performed > has changed -- but it doesn't need to know about it. > > I would say that this is almost as important a consideration as > security. Given the regularity with which security flaws are found in > MySQL, I very strongly recommend *not* exposing MySQL ports to the > Internet. > > Peter > > -- > Dr Peter Brett > LiveCode Engine Development Team > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Fri Aug 14 13:31:28 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 10:31:28 -0700 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55CE25F0.8000603@fourthworld.com> Kay, while I don't disagree with much of the substance of your post, I would suggest we all try to avoid comparisons with things that lead to emotion-laden phrases like "leeching off society". Open source is a gift, not an obligation, for both sides, developer and user alike. It's always a good thing when a gift is appreciated enough to engender another gift in return, but I would avoid characterizing any choice of participating in an open source process as an obligation. The most important thing anyone can do with LiveCode is to simply enjoy it. Without that, nothing else is possible. Beyond that, if someone chooses to contribute to an open source project, whether through code, documentation, cash, evangelism, or support, I believe it's best to see that as a gift as well. The GPL guarantees the freedom to make derivative works, but does not oblige us to do so. Moreover, some of the strength of the sentiment here is that many have already contributed to the open source project in advance through the Kickstarter campaign, and that was a specific context in which deliverables were described as being dependent on funding levels that were more than met. That the original estimates were off by more than two-fold is, unfortunately for all of us in this industry, so far below industry averages of estimate-cost variance that it's actually pretty good. Most folks here are patient with the progress thus far; development takes time. But until the Kickstarter goals are met, development time spent on proprietary-only extras will likely remain a sensitive issue, and finding the best balance between meeting those original goals and keeping the joint running to be able do so is a non-trivial challenge. And in the meantime it's worth noting that new features beyond the Kickstarter goals are also finding their way into both Commercial and Community editions, such as being able to seek into large files beyond the old addressing limit, Android intents, Unicode that goes beyond mere compatibility with the past to introduce new chunk types invaluable for language processing like trueWord and sentence, and more. As with other dual-licensed projects, there's a delicate balance being explored here. While the truly perfect recipe for success has not yet been discovered in this unique project, at a minimum we can move this exploration forward most productively by avoiding emotion-laden terms. -- Richard Gaskin LiveCode Community Manager richard at livecode.org From tfabacher at gmail.com Fri Aug 14 13:45:54 2015 From: tfabacher at gmail.com (Todd Fabacher) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 13:45:54 -0400 Subject: iCalendar [.ics file] Open Source Lib for LiveCode Message-ID: Over in the Create It with LiveCode Class we are working on the iCalendar App for the iPad, and we have a request to create an open source project to read and write to the iCalendar universal calendar file format [.ics]. It is used by several email and calendar programs, including Microsoft Outlook, Google Calendar, and Apple iCalendar; enabling users to publish and share calendar information on the Web and over email; often used for sending meeting requests to other users, who can import the events into their own calendars. Here are the specs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICalendar https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2445.txt If you are interested and/or if you are wish in getting involved please let me know on the forum topic: http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=25062 Thanks, Todd Fabacher From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Fri Aug 14 13:56:44 2015 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe | M-R-D) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 19:56:44 +0200 Subject: RELEASE: 7.1.0-RC-1 In-Reply-To: <913983FD-22E0-47BD-8E9C-D2463F71A12E@livecode.com> References: <913983FD-22E0-47BD-8E9C-D2463F71A12E@livecode.com> Message-ID: <2DADF79D-811E-40B1-87DE-0A171CA16B9E@m-r-d.de> Fraser, do you have an idea why i cannot activate the business version although i have an existing commercial license + Pro subscription? Am i misssing something? Matthias > Am 14.08.2015 um 19:09 schrieb Fraser Gordon : > > Dear List Members, > > We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 7.1.0 RC 1. > > *Warning, this is a development release with new features which have the potential > to cause issues. Please ensure you backup your stacks before testing this > release.* > > New Features and changes: > > - Mobile socket support > - mobileLaunchData command to support Android Intents > - enhanced mobile camera support in Indy and Business editions > - ?Commercial? edition is now branded as ?Indy? > - release of the new Business License Edition with a test version of the Business Application Framework > > Getting this release: > > Installers can be downloaded from https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ > > > Warm regards, > > The LiveCode Team > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From colinholgate at gmail.com Fri Aug 14 14:06:59 2015 From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 14:06:59 -0400 Subject: RELEASE: 7.1.0-RC-1 In-Reply-To: <2DADF79D-811E-40B1-87DE-0A171CA16B9E@m-r-d.de> References: <913983FD-22E0-47BD-8E9C-D2463F71A12E@livecode.com> <2DADF79D-811E-40B1-87DE-0A171CA16B9E@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <060040EC-1682-485B-8689-5442538728B6@gmail.com> I discovered this too. I guess us lifetime Commercial version owners are now deemed to be ?Indy?. Though you do have Pro subscription, which may make a difference. > On Aug 14, 2015, at 1:56 PM, Matthias Rebbe | M-R-D wrote: > > Fraser, > > do you have an idea why i cannot activate the business version although i have an existing commercial license + Pro subscription? > > Am i misssing something? > > Matthias > >> Am 14.08.2015 um 19:09 schrieb Fraser Gordon : >> >> Dear List Members, >> >> We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 7.1.0 RC 1. >> >> *Warning, this is a development release with new features which have the potential >> to cause issues. Please ensure you backup your stacks before testing this >> release.* >> >> New Features and changes: >> >> - Mobile socket support >> - mobileLaunchData command to support Android Intents >> - enhanced mobile camera support in Indy and Business editions >> - ?Commercial? edition is now branded as ?Indy? >> - release of the new Business License Edition with a test version of the Business Application Framework >> >> Getting this release: >> >> Installers can be downloaded from https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ >> >> >> Warm regards, >> >> The LiveCode Team >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From peter.brett at livecode.com Fri Aug 14 14:11:47 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 20:11:47 +0200 Subject: RELEASE: 7.1.0-RC-1 In-Reply-To: <2DADF79D-811E-40B1-87DE-0A171CA16B9E@m-r-d.de> References: <913983FD-22E0-47BD-8E9C-D2463F71A12E@livecode.com> <2DADF79D-811E-40B1-87DE-0A171CA16B9E@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <13b62c091fcc8f28429daf28530c5b55@livecode.com> On 2015-08-14 19:56, Matthias Rebbe | M-R-D wrote: > do you have an idea why i cannot activate the business version > although i have an existing commercial license + Pro subscription? > > Am i misssing something? Pre-existing Commercial licenses activate what is now called Indy edition. If you haven't upgraded to a Business license, you won't be able to activate the Business edition. Your Pro subscription benefits are still available until your existing Pro subscription runs out. If you have any further questions, or would like to upgrade, please contact our support team. Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Engine Development Team From scott at tactilemedia.com Fri Aug 14 14:11:30 2015 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 11:11:30 -0700 Subject: iCalendar [.ics file] Open Source Lib for LiveCode In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Todd: There have been projects involving ICS on the mail list before. Here's one: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/pre-ANN-ICS-library-td467155 1.html Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design On 8/14/15, 10:45 AM, "Todd Fabacher" wrote: >Over in the Create It with LiveCode Class we are working on the iCalendar >App for the iPad, and we have a request to create an open source project >to >read and write to the iCalendar universal calendar file format [.ics]. It >is used by several email and calendar programs, including Microsoft >Outlook, Google Calendar, and Apple iCalendar; enabling users to publish >and share calendar information on the Web and over email; often used for >sending meeting requests to other users, who can import the events into >their own calendars. Here are the specs: > >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICalendar >https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2445.txt > >If you are interested and/or if you are wish in getting involved please >let >me know on the forum topic: > >http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=25062 > >Thanks, > >Todd Fabacher >_______________________________________________ >use-livecode mailing list >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From peter.brett at livecode.com Fri Aug 14 14:16:08 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 20:16:08 +0200 Subject: mySQL: PHP or direct =?UTF-8?Q?access=3F?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 2015-08-14 19:31, Peter Haworth wrote: > Next decision - php or lc server. lc server is attractive since I > already > know the language but suffers from the drawback that not many web hosts > support it. Yes, that's exactly the trade-off that needs to be made! I don't think there's any hard and fast rule to help you decide here, I'm afraid! > Now that I'm seeing the benefits of middleware for db access, my next > thought is why bother with an SQL implementation that supports direct > network access when we're not using direct network access? For > example, > wouldn't SQLite do just as good a job? I've read that SQLite is used > for > many web sites supporting fairly high db access rates, maybe in the > range > of several hundred thousand a day. A common datacentre setup would involve middleware running on multiple front-end servers, connecting across the internal network to a database running on a single, dedicated, extremely high-power server. The front-end servers do the caching, validation, authentication, encryption, etc.; the database server only manages data. Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Engine Development Team From tfabacher at gmail.com Fri Aug 14 14:28:16 2015 From: tfabacher at gmail.com (Todd Fabacher) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 14:28:16 -0400 Subject: mySQL: PHP or direct access? Message-ID: I have used SQLite on a database server, but it has it's limitations. mySQL is the way to go for a long term solution. It is actually MUCH better when you start to go over everything that is needed for a true web server such as backup, load balance, multi user transactions and a VERY long list. We do use LC Server + revIgniter to create a great middleware REST API to our database. We host it on both the LC servers and and hostM https://www.hostm.com/livecode-hosting.m We have not released it to open source yet, but we are working on a multi-user LiveCode database sync tool that will sync between a local SQLite DB and a web server DB. There are a few limitations like not using auto-counters as PrimaryKeys, you will have to use UUIDs which is better anyway. We are a few months away, but early stages look VERY good. If you are interested, email me and I will see if I can help you. --Todd Fabacher From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Aug 14 14:32:32 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 13:32:32 -0500 Subject: Unicode files Message-ID: <55CE3440.9070702@hyperactivesw.com> I haven't got the materials yet so I can't test, but I am about to write a script that saves an array to a file on disk using arrayEncode (LC 7.) This is strictly for LC use; it will be saved and then re-loaded into the stack on next launch. Do I need to textEncode the data if I'm not going to use it outside of LC? I'm assuming it will remain intact but wanted to check. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From pete at lcsql.com Fri Aug 14 14:34:38 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 18:34:38 +0000 Subject: mySQL: PHP or direct access? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sure, I can certainly see a networked db would be necessary in that scenario but seems like for a simple, in-house system with a small number of users, could be useful just because of it's simplicity. On Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 11:16 AM Peter TB Brett wrote: > On 2015-08-14 19:31, Peter Haworth wrote: > > > Next decision - php or lc server. lc server is attractive since I > > already > > know the language but suffers from the drawback that not many web hosts > > support it. > > Yes, that's exactly the trade-off that needs to be made! I don't think > there's any hard and fast rule to help you decide here, I'm afraid! > > > Now that I'm seeing the benefits of middleware for db access, my next > > thought is why bother with an SQL implementation that supports direct > > network access when we're not using direct network access? For > > example, > > wouldn't SQLite do just as good a job? I've read that SQLite is used > > for > > many web sites supporting fairly high db access rates, maybe in the > > range > > of several hundred thousand a day. > > A common datacentre setup would involve middleware running on multiple > front-end servers, connecting across the internal network to a database > running on a single, dedicated, extremely high-power server. The > front-end servers do the caching, validation, authentication, > encryption, etc.; the database server only manages data. > > Peter > > -- > Dr Peter Brett > LiveCode Engine Development Team > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From pete at lcsql.com Fri Aug 14 14:35:13 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 18:35:13 +0000 Subject: mySQL: PHP or direct access? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks Todd, that sounds very interesting. I will email you off list for more info. On Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 11:28 AM Todd Fabacher wrote: > I have used SQLite on a database server, but it has it's limitations. mySQL > is the way to go for a long term solution. It is actually MUCH better when > you start to go over everything that is needed for a true web server such > as backup, load balance, multi user transactions and a VERY long list. > > We do use LC Server + revIgniter to create a great middleware REST API to > our database. We host it on both the LC servers and and hostM > https://www.hostm.com/livecode-hosting.m > > We have not released it to open source yet, but we are working on a > multi-user LiveCode database sync tool that will sync between a local > SQLite DB and a web server DB. There are a few limitations like not using > auto-counters as PrimaryKeys, you will have to use UUIDs which is better > anyway. > > We are a few months away, but early stages look VERY good. If you are > interested, email me and I will see if I can help you. > > --Todd Fabacher > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From peter.brett at livecode.com Fri Aug 14 14:36:32 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 20:36:32 +0200 Subject: Unicode files In-Reply-To: <55CE3440.9070702@hyperactivesw.com> References: <55CE3440.9070702@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: On 2015-08-14 20:32, J. Landman Gay wrote: > I haven't got the materials yet so I can't test, but I am about to > write a script that saves an array to a file on disk using arrayEncode > (LC 7.) > > This is strictly for LC use; it will be saved and then re-loaded into > the stack on next launch. Do I need to textEncode the data if I'm not > going to use it outside of LC? I'm assuming it will remain intact but > wanted to check. If you're using LiveCode 7's arrayEncode, you do not need to textEncode the data. arrayEncode will store the data losslessly. Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Engine Development Team From pete at lcsql.com Fri Aug 14 14:37:23 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 18:37:23 +0000 Subject: Unicode files In-Reply-To: <55CE3440.9070702@hyperactivesw.com> References: <55CE3440.9070702@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: I've done that without textEncode and it worked fine. Just watch out for the two arrayencoding algorithms used in different lc versions. On Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 11:32 AM J. Landman Gay wrote: > I haven't got the materials yet so I can't test, but I am about to write > a script that saves an array to a file on disk using arrayEncode (LC 7.) > > This is strictly for LC use; it will be saved and then re-loaded into > the stack on next launch. Do I need to textEncode the data if I'm not > going to use it outside of LC? I'm assuming it will remain intact but > wanted to check. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From livfoss at mac.com Fri Aug 14 14:47:33 2015 From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 20:47:33 +0200 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: <55CC02D3.7010300@hindu.org> References: <2F7CB0D2-6DE0-4918-BAD3-DA1149C5DA2E@sweattechnologies.com> <55CBD269.6010407@fourthworld.com> <55CC02D3.7010300@hindu.org> Message-ID: <54DA4952-28ED-4ACB-9428-6CE2BDD662F8@mac.com> This conversation (about version control for LS projects worked on by teams, not really about BAF at all at this point) is beginning to go over my head. Long ago I worked in enormous projects (not far off 100 people) without comprehensive version control, and I guess we did something like Brahmanathaswami is describing here? frankly I think one has to be scared of systems which require command-line gnomes to operate them; likewise one has to be scared of team-support systems that don?t have some form of regression-testing and integration framework available as well as pure version control. To me the ideal is a system which can be explained to a team in an hour and which everyone can then stick to. My (fractured) reading of this conversation gives me the idea that we are approaching Gnome-ville, where really nothing can be explained in an hour. I suppose this semi-rant is a plea to keep us less nerdy folk in the loop by explaining all the concepts of LC-working-in-a-version-controlled-context in a non-jargon-filled way. Any takers? Graham PS Just going back to the BAF, where does object-oriented programming come in, and what does it do to the current model in which LC operates? I think that?s another thread: it?s certainly another source of confusion. > On 13 Aug 2015, at 04:37, Brahmanathaswami wrote: > > Richard Gaskin wrote: >> So lets dive in with lcVCS in v7 today, and with any luck the project will attract enough contributors that they'll be able to handle at least some of whatever work may be needed to port it to v8 later, allowing you to maximize the time you spend on your externals which the community depends on as well. > Good positive move to take the energy from this somewhat tense thread to pour into a useful direction. Though I still think it behooves Kevin to consider VCS for the whole community -- it would be "HUGE" for his goals to make LC one of the world's top languages. > > I did study the Git book and that level of code control, played with it for a while using some scripts on the web server... I found myself spending more and more time on the cmd line than I would have liked. No doubt one who is using GIT a lot will become very efficient.. It certainly is a powerful tool. But for one level of user it's a bit time consuming and feels like it gets in the way... > > Meanwhile... I guess what I'm saying is, a full blown GIT management of scripts is scary to me when I would be content with "document" control... where a stack is a document and in some contexts it can simply be shared with someone else or "checked out" they work on it and "check it back in" ... while it is "check out" I can't touch it. If there were some way to regress and view changes that would be super, but not necessarily required. A simple approach is, Person A gives it Person B and B makes improvements. If nothing is broken... keep on going.. if person B messes up... we delete his version and regress back one and keep going... > > I made my own "magic carpet" in-house for InDesign document RCS and our team loves it. We have, in 4 years since we abandoned Adobe's version control, not lost any work or the the ability to regress to a previous version. 12 people working on the same document repositories on the LAN server. > > It would be simple for me to adapt my model to include HTTP calls to the server. The model is super simple: document is archived and checked in... if it is checked out by someone else, you can't touch it. When someone else checks it back in, another copy is made both on the server and locally. At anytime something breaks (iteraton21.livecode) there's copies of the last revision (iteration20.livecode) in 3 places, on user's A hard drive, the server and on user B hard drive. We can always recover. Its simple but robust "pass the baton." RCS > > I realize that the super coders would find that simply too limiting... but I think it works for a lot of not-so-edge cases. > > A strong Video screen tutorial on lcVCS might be useful. I want to see if that's where I want to go, or resurrect Magic Carpet... Perhaps there is, within lcVCS a way to keep it that simple. > > Monte... do you have documentation I can read somewhere? I have a need coming up here soon. I'm in the middle of working on a mobile app, and will shortly reach my limits and then I'll want to pass it off to others to improve, re-factor my code if necessary and fill out the features that are beyond my competency. So I'm scratching my head right now about just how to do that. Methods now are painful: FTP to server... send someone an email. manually change file names etc... > > Maybe we need to move this to a new thread? Anyone ever hear from Chip in Texas? (author of Magic Carpet) Altuit.com not longer seems to be up. Chipp seems to have moved on to other planets: http://blog.chipp.com/ > > Cheers from Hawaii. Monte, I hope your farm is not too cold down there! > > Brahmanathaswami > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Fri Aug 14 14:56:52 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 11:56:52 -0700 Subject: mySQL: PHP or direct access? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55CE39F4.4010004@fourthworld.com> Peter Haworth wrote: > Next decision - php or lc server. lc server is attractive since > I already know the language but suffers from the drawback that not > many web hosts support it. Any Web server that supports CGI can use LiveCode as easily as Ruby, Perl, or any other CGI. And IMNSHO, and shared Web server that doesn't support CGI isn't worth using. Same for SSH. Fortunately most support both. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Fri Aug 14 15:04:16 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 12:04:16 -0700 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: <54DA4952-28ED-4ACB-9428-6CE2BDD662F8@mac.com> References: <54DA4952-28ED-4ACB-9428-6CE2BDD662F8@mac.com> Message-ID: <55CE3BB0.7070901@fourthworld.com> Graham Samuel wrote: > This conversation (about version control for LS projects worked on > by teams, not really about BAF at all at this point) is beginning > to go over my head. Long ago I worked in enormous projects (not far > off 100 people) without comprehensive version control, and I guess > we did something like Brahmanathaswami is describing here? frankly > I think one has to be scared of systems which require command-line > gnomes to operate them; likewise one has to be scared of team-support > systems that don?t have some form of regression-testing and > integration framework available as well as pure version control. > > To me the ideal is a system which can be explained to a team in an > hour and which everyone can then stick to. My (fractured) reading of > this conversation gives me the idea that we are approaching Gnome- > ville, where really nothing can be explained in an hour. > > I suppose this semi-rant is a plea to keep us less nerdy folk in the > loop by explaining all the concepts of LC-working-in-a-version- > controlled-context in a non-jargon-filled way. Any takers? Github is very powerful, but was designed by the Linux kernel team and evidences the same level of interest in usability. :) It's not that usability isn't a high priority for many Linux projects (run Ubuntu for a month and see if you're not at least as productive as with OS X), but that level of GUI usability isn't a consideration for a kernel team. I've been looking for a quickly-readable Github For Noobs, but haven't found one yet. With so many things that it does, it may not be possible to describe is succinctly; I don't know, I'll leave that to the others who use it regularly. For lcVCS, I'd like to believe that the community can come together and help flesh out any IDE plugins or other components that can support Monte's good work, so the end result is both powerful and readily usable. > PS Just going back to the BAF, where does object-oriented programming > come in, and what does it do to the current model in which LC > operates? I'm curious about that too. OOP purists love to argue about what constitutes true OOP, and I enjoy popcorn, so it'll be good to learn more about that. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Aug 14 15:05:58 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 14:05:58 -0500 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: <54DA4952-28ED-4ACB-9428-6CE2BDD662F8@mac.com> References: <2F7CB0D2-6DE0-4918-BAD3-DA1149C5DA2E@sweattechnologies.com> <55CBD269.6010407@fourthworld.com> <55CC02D3.7010300@hindu.org> <54DA4952-28ED-4ACB-9428-6CE2BDD662F8@mac.com> Message-ID: <55CE3C16.6000005@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/14/2015 1:47 PM, Graham Samuel wrote: > To me the ideal is a system which can be explained to a team in an > hour and which everyone can then stick to. My (fractured) reading of > this conversation gives me the idea that we are approaching > Gnome-ville, where really nothing can be explained in an hour. That's kind of where I'm at too. I think I'd really like github, and the things Marty said were enticing, but it's more than I can absorb quickly and apparently requires study. In fact, there's so much to learn that there are entire books explaining it. That's more than I have time to devote to it, especially since I don't usually work in teams, so I stick with what I know which is backups and notes. If someone who knows this stuff puts together something LC-compatible and idiot-friendly, I'll take another look. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Aug 14 15:08:31 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 14:08:31 -0500 Subject: Unicode files In-Reply-To: References: <55CE3440.9070702@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <55CE3CAF.3030309@hyperactivesw.com> Thanks Pete, I was hoping that was the answer. This particular project is LC-7 exclusive, so the two arrayEncodings won't be a problem. In fact, I'm going to ignore it altogether. :) On 8/14/2015 1:37 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: > I've done that without textEncode and it worked fine. Just watch out for > the two arrayencoding algorithms used in different lc versions. > > On Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 11:32 AM J. Landman Gay > wrote: > >> I haven't got the materials yet so I can't test, but I am about to write >> a script that saves an array to a file on disk using arrayEncode (LC 7.) >> >> This is strictly for LC use; it will be saved and then re-loaded into >> the stack on next launch. Do I need to textEncode the data if I'm not >> going to use it outside of LC? I'm assuming it will remain intact but >> wanted to check. >> >> -- >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Aug 14 15:14:49 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 14:14:49 -0500 Subject: Unicode files In-Reply-To: References: <55CE3440.9070702@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <55CE3E29.9060907@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/14/2015 1:36 PM, Peter TB Brett wrote: > On 2015-08-14 20:32, J. Landman Gay wrote: >> I haven't got the materials yet so I can't test, but I am about to >> write a script that saves an array to a file on disk using arrayEncode >> (LC 7.) >> >> This is strictly for LC use; it will be saved and then re-loaded into >> the stack on next launch. Do I need to textEncode the data if I'm not >> going to use it outside of LC? I'm assuming it will remain intact but >> wanted to check. > > If you're using LiveCode 7's arrayEncode, you do not need to textEncode > the data. arrayEncode will store the data losslessly. Yay! I saw Pete's answer first but I wanted to acknowledge yours because I'm so happy when team members participate on the list. :) -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Fri Aug 14 15:41:39 2015 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe | M-R-D) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 21:41:39 +0200 Subject: RELEASE: 7.1.0-RC-1 In-Reply-To: <060040EC-1682-485B-8689-5442538728B6@gmail.com> References: <913983FD-22E0-47BD-8E9C-D2463F71A12E@livecode.com> <2DADF79D-811E-40B1-87DE-0A171CA16B9E@m-r-d.de> <060040EC-1682-485B-8689-5442538728B6@gmail.com> Message-ID: > Am 14.08.2015 um 20:06 schrieb Colin Holgate : > > I discovered this too. I guess us lifetime Commercial version owners are now deemed to be ?Indy?. Yes, but without the revenue limit. > Though you do have Pro subscription, which may make a difference. > > I even have an enterprise lite license. I just forgot it. ;) Enterprise lite and Pro were merged some time ago. But my account still shows enterprise lite subscription. I am very interested in the Cloud and DataSync framework and the pdf viewer included in the business suite, but do not want to upgrade to business. Thought enterprise lite would be business. Anyway, luckily lifetime commercial license owners have a license for all existing and all coming platforms. So html5 will be included. Matthias >> On Aug 14, 2015, at 1:56 PM, Matthias Rebbe | M-R-D wrote: >> >> Fraser, >> >> do you have an idea why i cannot activate the business version although i have an existing commercial license + Pro subscription? >> >> Am i misssing something? >> >> Matthias > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Fri Aug 14 15:49:24 2015 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 15:49:24 -0400 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: <55CE25F0.8000603@fourthworld.com> References: <55CE25F0.8000603@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: My favorite quote of the week: "The most important thing anyone can do with LiveCode is to simply enjoy it. Without that, nothing else is possible." --Richard Gaskin From mkoob at rogers.com Fri Aug 14 16:20:23 2015 From: mkoob at rogers.com (Martin Koob) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 13:20:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: <55CE3C16.6000005@hyperactivesw.com> References: <55CB9FA1.30607@fourthworld.com> <2BFBCFB7-45E1-4113-9B97-21487C99A53C@m-r-d.de> <55CBAD21.5090305@fourthworld.com> <55CBB39C.40905@fourthworld.com> <2F7CB0D2-6DE0-4918-BAD3-DA1149C5DA2E@sweattechnologies.com> <55CBD269.6010407@fourthworld.com> <55CC02D3.7010300@hindu.org> <54DA4952-28ED-4ACB-9428-6CE2BDD662F8@mac.com> <55CE3C16.6000005@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <1439583623062-4695053.post@n4.nabble.com> J. Landman Gay wrote > On 8/14/2015 1:47 PM, Graham Samuel wrote: >> To me the ideal is a system which can be explained to a team in an >> hour and which everyone can then stick to. My (fractured) reading of >> this conversation gives me the idea that we are approaching >> Gnome-ville, where really nothing can be explained in an hour. > > That's kind of where I'm at too. I think I'd really like github, and the > things Marty said were enticing, but it's more than I can absorb quickly > and apparently requires study. In fact, there's so much to learn that > there are entire books explaining it. > > That's more than I have time to devote to it, especially since I don't > usually work in teams, so I stick with what I know which is backups and > notes. > > If someone who knows this stuff puts together something LC-compatible > and idiot-friendly, I'll take another look. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | > jacque@ > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at .runrev > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode I do not understand the intricacies of version control github but I have not needed to with lcVCS. In the daily workflow with the lcVCS IDE plugin the only addition is after I save my stack in LiveCode and want to commit the changes to the repository I go to the SourceTree app https://www.sourcetreeapp.com to review my changes, type a note and then commit the changes to the repository. I can add the term 'resolve' and an issue number for an issue I have entered in bitbucket i.e. "resolve issue #130" along with my note and my commit note will be added to the issue thread in bit bucket and the issue will be marked resolved automatically. As I said I am no expert. My big accomplishment was creating a branch and merging the branch back into my main branch. I have only done that once. So I still have more to learn there but without using more advanced features I still find lcVCS and version control very helpful. There is work to be done initially to set up the repository in github and locally and configure bitbucket. I needed support from Monte in doing this part. Once it is set up I don't need to think about that. There were also some changes in my stacks i needed to do to reduce false positives for conflicts by adding lcVCSExport handlers to various cards and stacks. I still get false positives from objects resizing or moving or having a value of a property change. I don't really worry about them too much now. So not having having a great deal of knowledge of version control has not prevented from using lcVCS. Martin -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Business-Application-Framework-tp4694846p4695053.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From monte at sweattechnologies.com Fri Aug 14 16:46:18 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 06:46:18 +1000 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: <1439564957521-4695027.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <55CB9FA1.30607@fourthworld.com> <2BFBCFB7-45E1-4113-9B97-21487C99A53C@m-r-d.de> <55CBAD21.5090305@fourthworld.com> <55CBB39C.40905@fourthworld.com> <2F7CB0D2-6DE0-4918-BAD3-DA1149C5DA2E@sweattechnologies.com> <55CBD269.6010407@fourthworld.com> <4C8CDE15-C200-4EA8-9B59-159858F53670@sweattechnologies.com> <1439564957521-4695027.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: > On 15 Aug 2015, at 1:09 am, Martin Koob wrote: > > Monte has not charged for lcVCS to this point but I will happily pay him for > it when there is an opportunity to do so. > > His original plan to provide the lcVCS engine as GPL and then charge for the > IDE plugin and command line interface. I would be happy to pay for the > plugin given the value it adds and time it saves. Would people who want > version control for LiveCode be willing to commit up front and pay for the > lcVCS plugin or some other payment option or commit in a funding campaign? > If there are not enough people willing to commit the funds this all becomes > a moot discussion. Thanks Martin As far as lcVCS goes I actually think it would be good better if we could work with Mark and Peter to get the file format into the engine. That way if there?s a new property or something it?s all automatic. I think what I?ve done is useful in that both it has worked and that it has given me a fairly solid understanding of what the issues are to pass on where I can or at least discuss with the engine guys. There?s a healthy discussion in that direction going on here https://github.com/runrev/livecode/pull/1590#issuecomment-131057336 The git IDE integration on the other hand could be a plugin (paid or open source) or part of the IDE that comes out of the box. It?s where the magic happens. Stuff like the toolTip on the script line numbers showing the author and commit message. So I?d rather focus on that stuff. Cheers Monte From revolution at derbrill.de Fri Aug 14 17:23:05 2015 From: revolution at derbrill.de (Malte Brill) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 23:23:05 +0200 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <16315D8D-87A0-4943-A5BB-28F33F1992C5@derbrill.de> > The git IDE integration on the other hand could be a plugin (paid or open source) or part of the IDE that comes out of the box. It?s where the magic happens. Stuff like the toolTip on the script line numbers showing the author and commit message. So I?d rather focus on that stuff. Monte, how much would you think we need to raise to make your work on this worthwhile? I?d surely be willing to put in a couple of ?s if we had something that installs easiely and is easy to use. (Of course best coming out of the box) I would like to have Version Control rather yesterday than tomorrow, but was a little bit scared of lcVCS up until now, mainly due to time constraints not being able to test out things... Cheers, Malte -- derbrill IT-service Malte Pfaff-Brill Alsenstr. 15, d-24768 Rendsburg Tel: +49 4331-337 640 0 eMail: info at derbrill.de web: http://www.derbrill.de Steuernummer: 28 015 03865 VAT ID: DE223571286 Bankverbindung: BIC: GENODEF1KIL IBAN: DE87 2109 0007 0088 2849 05 Kieler Volksbank e.G. Kontoinhaber Malte Pfaff-Brill From monte at sweattechnologies.com Fri Aug 14 17:36:15 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 07:36:15 +1000 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: <16315D8D-87A0-4943-A5BB-28F33F1992C5@derbrill.de> References: <16315D8D-87A0-4943-A5BB-28F33F1992C5@derbrill.de> Message-ID: > On 15 Aug 2015, at 7:23 am, Malte Brill wrote: > > how much would you think we need to raise to make your work on this worthwhile? > > I?d surely be willing to put in a couple of ?s if we had something that installs easiely and is easy to use. (Of course best coming out of the box) I would like to have Version Control rather yesterday than tomorrow, but was a little bit scared of lcVCS up until now, mainly due to time constraints not being able to test out things... It?s a bit of a ?how long is a piece of string? question at the moment. I can?t promise to make anything work out of the box in the IDE. If that?s what the community wants (I want it too) then it?s probably better that whatever funding is raised goes to Edinburgh so it?s part of the IDE/engine. On the other hand they may not want to complicate the IDE with it for all users??? If it needs to remain a plugin then perhaps with some community support I could release my CLI and IDE plugin but it?s probably best to work through things with the team in Edinburgh first. From ambassador at fourthworld.com Fri Aug 14 17:59:42 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 14:59:42 -0700 Subject: Downloaded stacks on iOS Message-ID: <55CE64CE.8050600@fourthworld.com> Interesting find in my morning reading: This little startup is solving one of the biggest frustrations with Apple's App Store What his AppHub service does is the equivalent of LiveCode developers handling updates via downloaded stack files. Historically many in our community have avoided that practice on iOS given Apple's strict rules, but this article describes those rules as "ambiguous", and thus far Apple hasn't shut down any apps using the AppHub mechanism (though that may be because there are so few at the moment). Being able to handle our own updates without app store delays is very exciting - anyone here have any relevant experience with Apple which would help us appreciate whether downloaded stack files is a good thing to build one's architecture around, or if Apple is likely to just snuff out AppHub? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From martyknappster at gmail.com Fri Aug 14 18:04:43 2015 From: martyknappster at gmail.com (Marty Knapp) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 15:04:43 -0700 Subject: Curl from shell Message-ID: <55CE65FB.9090602@gmail.com> I'm trying to call curl from a shell command from within LC to get info from a website via their API and am getting a "could not resolve host" error. I can successfully run curl from the terminal (on Mac). This is totally new territory for me, so I have almost no idea of what I'm doing! I'm using LC 6.6.5 if that makes any difference. Here's the curl statement I'm using (formatted per the website's API): curl -H "Accept: text/xml" https://API_KEY:API_SECRET at www.thewebsite.com/api/v1/data Works fine in Terminal. Note that it is using https if that matters. Thanks for any help, Marty From ambassador at fourthworld.com Fri Aug 14 18:11:12 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 15:11:12 -0700 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55CE6780.9050703@fourthworld.com> Monte Goulding wrote: > It?s a bit of a ?how long is a piece of string? question at the > moment. I can?t promise to make anything work out of the box in > the IDE. If that?s what the community wants (I want it too) then > it?s probably better that whatever funding is raised goes to > Edinburgh so it?s part of the IDE/engine. On the other hand they > may not want to complicate the IDE with it for all users??? If it > needs to remain a plugin then perhaps with some community support > I could release my CLI and IDE plugin but it?s probably best to > work through things with the team in Edinburgh first. Why not a bundled plugin? There's good precedent with LC shipping with third-party plugins bundled, and that makes it instantly available to the widest audience while still managing expectations in terms of support. In terms of the remaining work, would it be helpful if you had one or two other people to lend a hand with that? -- Richard Gaskin LiveCode Community Manager richard at livecode.org From monte at sweattechnologies.com Fri Aug 14 18:04:35 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 08:04:35 +1000 Subject: Downloaded stacks on iOS In-Reply-To: <55CE64CE.8050600@fourthworld.com> References: <55CE64CE.8050600@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <9A12691B-7FDA-4235-8085-4FB960EDC117@sweattechnologies.com> I think they are managing to get away with this because their apps are JavaScript which is exempted in the clause. > On 15 Aug 2015, at 7:59 am, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > Interesting find in my morning reading: > > This little startup is solving one of the biggest frustrations with Apple's App Store > > > What his AppHub service does is the equivalent of LiveCode developers handling updates via downloaded stack files. > > Historically many in our community have avoided that practice on iOS given Apple's strict rules, but this article describes those rules as "ambiguous", and thus far Apple hasn't shut down any apps using the AppHub mechanism (though that may be because there are so few at the moment). > > Being able to handle our own updates without app store delays is very exciting - anyone here have any relevant experience with Apple which would help us appreciate whether downloaded stack files is a good thing to build one's architecture around, or if Apple is likely to just snuff out AppHub? > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Fri Aug 14 18:15:14 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 15:15:14 -0700 Subject: Curl from shell In-Reply-To: <55CE65FB.9090602@gmail.com> References: <55CE65FB.9090602@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55CE6872.6090309@fourthworld.com> Marty Knapp wrote: > I'm trying to call curl from a shell command from within LC to get info > from a website via their API and am getting a "could not resolve host" > error. I can successfully run curl from the terminal (on Mac). This is > totally new territory for me, so I have almost no idea of what I'm > doing! I'm using LC 6.6.5 if that makes any difference. > > Here's the curl statement I'm using (formatted per the website's API): > > curl -H "Accept: text/xml" > https://API_KEY:API_SECRET at www.thewebsite.com/api/v1/data > > Works fine in Terminal. Note that it is using https if that matters. If it works in Terminal I'm mystified; Mark Wieder may have a tip for that. Have you tested it with libURL? For HTTP/HTTPS it shouldn't be necessary to use curl or other outside programs. FWIW, I did some testing with wget yesterday (not the same as curl, but often considered a bit lighter), and I found that the overhead of instantiating the terminal session with shell meant that using libURL was about 20% faster overall for downloading a 1MB binary data file. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From monte at sweattechnologies.com Fri Aug 14 18:20:44 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 08:20:44 +1000 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: <55CE6780.9050703@fourthworld.com> References: <55CE6780.9050703@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <37D037D2-15D2-4933-B2F3-21CA93D1A8A5@sweattechnologies.com> > On 15 Aug 2015, at 8:11 am, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > Why not a bundled plugin? There's good precedent with LC shipping with third-party plugins bundled, and that makes it instantly available to the widest audience while still managing expectations in terms of support. That would be possible too, all options are open. > In terms of the remaining work, would it be helpful if you had one or two other people to lend a hand with that? In terms of lcVCS itself there is no remaining work I?m aware of until we get to LC 8 support. For LC 8 I need to know which widgets are loaded and the properties of widgets so I can save them. The properties property on a widget is empty and that?s what lcVCS uses for legacy objects. It?s possible to hack the IDE to get this info but I?m reluctant to do that. In terms of the CLI and git ide integration plugin that could do with some more work (a lot more if we decide a full pull review workflow should be integrated into it but I guess we don?t need to do that just yet). From memory there were some issues Trevor had with so he decided not to use it? I can?t remember if I resolved all of those. From pete at lcsql.com Fri Aug 14 18:31:50 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 22:31:50 +0000 Subject: mySQL: PHP or direct access? In-Reply-To: <55CE39F4.4010004@fourthworld.com> References: <55CE39F4.4010004@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: I just thought of a downside to using lc as db middleware if I choose to use SQLite. The SQLite library supplied with LC is months old, and a large number of bug fixes and several useful enhancements are missing. I have filed QCC reports about this and also asked for the ability to load our own sqlite library so the team don't have to bother keeping theirs up to date but so far, no luck. I believe with php, I would be able to use whatever sqlite library I wanted to use. On Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 11:57 AM Richard Gaskin wrote: > Peter Haworth wrote: > > > Next decision - php or lc server. lc server is attractive since > > I already know the language but suffers from the drawback that not > > many web hosts support it. > > Any Web server that supports CGI can use LiveCode as easily as Ruby, > Perl, or any other CGI. > > And IMNSHO, and shared Web server that doesn't support CGI isn't worth > using. Same for SSH. Fortunately most support both. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From prothero at earthednet.org Fri Aug 14 18:50:07 2015 From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 15:50:07 -0700 Subject: Bug getting group name, plse check In-Reply-To: References: <55CE39F4.4010004@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Folks: I just encountered what appears to be an error in the group function. To duplicate, make a new stack. Make a graphic for a background Make a button group the graphic and the background Name the group something, anything, like ?myGroup? inside the button script, put: on mouseUp send "getGroup" to grp "myGroup" put the long name of me into lName put wordOffset("Group",lName) into nw put word nw+1 of lName into tGroup breakpoint put the short name of grp me into tGroup answer tGroup end mouseUp in the group script, put: on getGroup put the short name of grp me into theGroupName breakpoint end getGroup You will notice that the ?put the short name of grp me ?.? statement, the correct group name is in tGroup. However, if you continue past the breakpoint, the code fails. You can verify that the statement ?put the short name of grp me into tGroup? works by putting a breakpoint in the group script. It?s not a show-stopper, but seems to be a bug. Verify, anybody? Best, Bill William A. Prothero http://es.earthednet.org/ From monte at sweattechnologies.com Fri Aug 14 18:46:59 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 08:46:59 +1000 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: <37D037D2-15D2-4933-B2F3-21CA93D1A8A5@sweattechnologies.com> References: <55CE6780.9050703@fourthworld.com> <37D037D2-15D2-4933-B2F3-21CA93D1A8A5@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <11B8AEB7-D94C-4CCE-B904-4F6A16CDB2D0@sweattechnologies.com> > In terms of the remaining work, would it be helpful if you had one or two other people to lend a hand with that? I didn?t really answer this question sorry. Probably the most helpful would be more documentation. Perhaps videos explaining things? I have some docs for lcVCS here https://github.com/montegoulding/lcvcs/wiki and anyone can clone the wiki repo and add/edit pages if they want to contribute docs. However, there is a reasonable question mark about whether to push ahead with tools that are built on top of lcVCS or to wait and see if there is a stackdir format coming to the engine and then build some tools based on that. From martyknappster at gmail.com Fri Aug 14 19:03:15 2015 From: martyknappster at gmail.com (Marty Knapp) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 16:03:15 -0700 Subject: Curl from shell In-Reply-To: <55CE6872.6090309@fourthworld.com> References: <55CE65FB.9090602@gmail.com> <55CE6872.6090309@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <55CE73B3.9090800@gmail.com> Thanks Richard, I just solved it - I didn't have it formatted correctly for LC. In Terminal I could just enter: curl -H "Accept: text/xml" https://API_KEY:API_SECRET at www.thewebsite.com/api/v1/data In LC I had it formatted like this (it compiled): get shell("curl -H" && "Accept: text/xml" && "https://API_KEY:API_SECRET at www.thewebsite.com/api/v1/data") But it needed to be formatted like this (I neglected to use "quote"): get shell("curl -H" && quote & "Accept: text/xml" & quote && "https://API_KEY:API_SECRET at www.thewebsite.com/api/v1/data") Marty > Marty Knapp wrote: > >> I'm trying to call curl from a shell command from within LC to get info >> from a website via their API and am getting a "could not resolve host" >> error. I can successfully run curl from the terminal (on Mac). This is >> totally new territory for me, so I have almost no idea of what I'm >> doing! I'm using LC 6.6.5 if that makes any difference. >> >> Here's the curl statement I'm using (formatted per the website's API): >> >> curl -H "Accept: text/xml" >> https://API_KEY:API_SECRET at www.thewebsite.com/api/v1/data >> >> Works fine in Terminal. Note that it is using https if that matters. > > If it works in Terminal I'm mystified; Mark Wieder may have a tip for > that. > > Have you tested it with libURL? For HTTP/HTTPS it shouldn't be > necessary to use curl or other outside programs. > > FWIW, I did some testing with wget yesterday (not the same as curl, > but often considered a bit lighter), and I found that the overhead of > instantiating the terminal session with shell meant that using libURL > was about 20% faster overall for downloading a 1MB binary data file. > From alex at tweedly.net Fri Aug 14 19:15:25 2015 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 00:15:25 +0100 Subject: Bug getting group name, plse check In-Reply-To: References: <55CE39F4.4010004@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <55CE768D.4020903@tweedly.net> Is it valid to say (in the mouseUp script) ..... of grp me into .... Isn't 'me' a button, so "grp me" is unclear ? [ or did you mean to say put the short name of grp tGroup into ... ? ] -- Alex. On 14/08/2015 23:50, William Prothero wrote: > Folks: > I just encountered what appears to be an error in the group function. > > To duplicate, make a new stack. > Make a graphic for a background > Make a button > group the graphic and the background > Name the group something, anything, like ?myGroup? > inside the button script, put: > > on mouseUp > send "getGroup" to grp "myGroup" > put the long name of me into lName > put wordOffset("Group",lName) into nw > put word nw+1 of lName into tGroup > breakpoint > put the short name of grp me into tGroup > answer tGroup > end mouseUp > > in the group script, put: > on getGroup > put the short name of grp me into theGroupName > breakpoint > end getGroup > > You will notice that the ?put the short name of grp me ?.? statement, the correct group name is in tGroup. However, if you continue past the breakpoint, the code fails. You can verify that the statement ?put the short name of grp me into tGroup? works by putting a breakpoint in the group script. > > It?s not a show-stopper, but seems to be a bug. > > Verify, anybody? > > Best, > Bill > > William A. Prothero > http://es.earthednet.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From alex at tweedly.net Fri Aug 14 19:26:56 2015 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 00:26:56 +0100 Subject: iCalendar [.ics file] Open Source Lib for LiveCode In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55CE7940.9000207@tweedly.net> And to follow up on that posting from me of almost two years ago .... at the time there was no interest (no beta users, ...) I primarily developed it for one project, which was successful enough, but had no need to develop it any further. Without either beta testers or any on-going use by myself, it didn't seem quite ready for release (clearly not as a commercial project), so it's just been sitting on the shelf. I'd be happy to contribute it under some GPL license (so long as that lets me retain rights to use it (the orginal) in commercial products if I ever choose to), and to participate in any on-going project that develops. Let me know if there is any interest in that (either here on the list, or by direct email - I rarely get time to look at the forums). -- Alex. On 14/08/2015 19:11, Scott Rossi wrote: > Hi Todd: > > There have been projects involving ICS on the mail list before. Here's > one: > http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/pre-ANN-ICS-library-td467155 > 1.html > > > Regards, > > Scott Rossi > Creative Director > Tactile Media, UX/UI Design > > > > > On 8/14/15, 10:45 AM, "Todd Fabacher" wrote: > >> Over in the Create It with LiveCode Class we are working on the iCalendar >> App for the iPad, and we have a request to create an open source project >> to >> read and write to the iCalendar universal calendar file format [.ics]. It >> is used by several email and calendar programs, including Microsoft >> Outlook, Google Calendar, and Apple iCalendar; enabling users to publish >> and share calendar information on the Web and over email; often used for >> sending meeting requests to other users, who can import the events into >> their own calendars. Here are the specs: >> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICalendar >> https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2445.txt >> >> If you are interested and/or if you are wish in getting involved please >> let >> me know on the forum topic: >> >> http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=25062 >> >> Thanks, >> >> Todd Fabacher >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From monte at sweattechnologies.com Fri Aug 14 19:18:18 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 09:18:18 +1000 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: <11B8AEB7-D94C-4CCE-B904-4F6A16CDB2D0@sweattechnologies.com> References: <55CE6780.9050703@fourthworld.com> <37D037D2-15D2-4933-B2F3-21CA93D1A8A5@sweattechnologies.com> <11B8AEB7-D94C-4CCE-B904-4F6A16CDB2D0@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <95D67C4D-F744-4AF6-BB20-478BCF182E2D@sweattechnologies.com> > On 15 Aug 2015, at 8:46 am, Monte Goulding wrote: > >> In terms of the remaining work, would it be helpful if you had one or two other people to lend a hand with that? > > I didn?t really answer this question sorry. Probably the most helpful would be more documentation. Perhaps videos explaining things? I have some docs for lcVCS here https://github.com/montegoulding/lcvcs/wiki and anyone can clone the wiki repo and add/edit pages if they want to contribute docs. BTW Incase folks don?t know what I?m talking about with IDE integration here?s some screenshots: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ji82f74vof30x8d/Screenshot%202015-08-15%2009.07.20.png?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/sh2ac48je6jaww0/Screenshot%202015-08-15%2009.12.03.png?dl=0 There?s more but those are my favourites ;-) Cheers Monte From ambassador at fourthworld.com Fri Aug 14 19:49:33 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 16:49:33 -0700 Subject: mySQL: PHP or direct access? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55CE7E8D.5010009@fourthworld.com> Peter Haworth wrote: > I just thought of a downside to using lc as db middleware if I choose to > use SQLite. The SQLite library supplied with LC is months old, and a large > number of bug fixes and several useful enhancements are missing. I have > filed QCC reports about this and also asked for the ability to load our own > sqlite library so the team don't have to bother keeping theirs up to date > but so far, no luck. We need better integration with upstreams. In addition to SQLite, there's Skia and others. At any time any one of them may have bug fixes that we'll want to include ASAP. Anyone here review the revDB externals for SQlite deeply enough to have a feel for how difficult it is to update the core SQLite component? There's gotta be a way to automate that.... -- Richard Gaskin LiveCode Community Manager richard at livecode.org From prothero at earthednet.org Fri Aug 14 19:56:46 2015 From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 16:56:46 -0700 Subject: Bug getting group name, plse check In-Reply-To: <55CE768D.4020903@tweedly.net> References: <55CE39F4.4010004@fourthworld.com> <55CE768D.4020903@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <125DBD5C-E7C6-4096-B010-4ABF511C7B1B@earthednet.org> Alex: ?the long name of me? is a complete reference to an object, which contains the group name. What I was trying to do is get the name of the group that the button is in. I can parse it from the long name of me, but thought it would pull it out of ?me?. Anyway, what do I know? If I?m wrong to expect this, then I won?t report it as a bug (of course). Or perhaps there is a better way of getting the group that a control is within. Best, Bill > On Aug 14, 2015, at 4:15 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote: > > Is it valid to say (in the mouseUp script) > ..... of grp me into .... > > Isn't 'me' a button, so "grp me" is unclear ? > > [ or did you mean to say put the short name of grp tGroup into ... ? ] > > -- Alex. > > On 14/08/2015 23:50, William Prothero wrote: >> Folks: >> I just encountered what appears to be an error in the group function. >> >> To duplicate, make a new stack. >> Make a graphic for a background >> Make a button >> group the graphic and the background >> Name the group something, anything, like ?myGroup? >> inside the button script, put: >> >> on mouseUp >> send "getGroup" to grp "myGroup" >> put the long name of me into lName >> put wordOffset("Group",lName) into nw >> put word nw+1 of lName into tGroup >> breakpoint >> put the short name of grp me into tGroup >> answer tGroup >> end mouseUp >> >> in the group script, put: >> on getGroup >> put the short name of grp me into theGroupName >> breakpoint >> end getGroup >> >> You will notice that the ?put the short name of grp me ?.? statement, the correct group name is in tGroup. However, if you continue past the breakpoint, the code fails. You can verify that the statement ?put the short name of grp me into tGroup? works by putting a breakpoint in the group script. >> >> It?s not a show-stopper, but seems to be a bug. >> >> Verify, anybody? >> >> Best, >> Bill >> >> William A. Prothero >> http://es.earthednet.org/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From monte at sweattechnologies.com Fri Aug 14 19:50:02 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 09:50:02 +1000 Subject: mySQL: PHP or direct access? In-Reply-To: <55CE7E8D.5010009@fourthworld.com> References: <55CE7E8D.5010009@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <9D10621D-CC2C-4BC8-AE59-5DF81C800FDF@sweattechnologies.com> > On 15 Aug 2015, at 9:49 am, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > We need better integration with upstreams. In addition to SQLite, there's Skia and others. At any time any one of them may have bug fixes that we'll want to include ASAP. > > Anyone here review the revDB externals for SQlite deeply enough to have a feel for how difficult it is to update the core SQLite component? I believe Mark Wieder had a good look at revDB and decided to stop looking ;-) > > There's gotta be a way to automate that.... Well yes there is, these things should be submodules of the engine repo so that keeping them updated should be as simple as checking out their most recent tagged release. Not all the libraries the engine depends on are in public git repos though. SQLIte is an example of one of those as it uses fossil so the team would need to do something like this http://blog.paddlefish.net/?p=1004 From ambassador at fourthworld.com Fri Aug 14 20:17:24 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 17:17:24 -0700 Subject: iCalendar [.ics file] Open Source Lib for LiveCode In-Reply-To: <55CE7940.9000207@tweedly.net> References: <55CE7940.9000207@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <55CE8514.4050501@fourthworld.com> Alex Tweedly wrote: > I primarily developed it for one project, which was successful > enough, but had no need to develop it any further. Without either > beta testers or any on-going use by myself, it didn't seem quite > ready for release (clearly not as a commercial project), so it's > just been sitting on the shelf. > > I'd be happy to contribute it under some GPL license (so long as that > lets me retain rights to use it (the orginal) in commercial products > if I ever choose to), and to participate in any on-going project that > develops. Let me know if there is any interest in that (either here > on the list, or by direct email - I rarely get time to look at the > forums). Just about anything other than explicit transfer to the public domain retains your copyright as the creator of the work. While I think the GPL is a very good fit for projects where sharing is a goal, it does prohibit use within proprietary works. Use within proprietary works could be supported by allowing users to choose to obtain it under a separate proprietary license, perhaps even for a fee, as LiveCode does. And there's also the LGPL for components which allow certain usage within proprietary works, or other licenses considered GPL-compatible like Apache v2 and X11. If you have time on your hands, the Free Software Foundation has a list of popular licenses noting their compatibility with GPL v3, which LiveCode Community uses: -- Richard Gaskin LiveCode Community Manager richard at livecode.org From monte at sweattechnologies.com Fri Aug 14 20:12:31 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 10:12:31 +1000 Subject: mySQL: PHP or direct access? In-Reply-To: <9D10621D-CC2C-4BC8-AE59-5DF81C800FDF@sweattechnologies.com> References: <55CE7E8D.5010009@fourthworld.com> <9D10621D-CC2C-4BC8-AE59-5DF81C800FDF@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <4789B274-5CB1-4898-B16A-1512332818E4@sweattechnologies.com> > On 15 Aug 2015, at 9:50 am, Monte Goulding wrote: > >> There's gotta be a way to automate that.... > > Well yes there is, these things should be submodules of the engine repo so that keeping them updated should be as simple as checking out their most recent tagged release. Not all the libraries the engine depends on are in public git repos though. SQLIte is an example of one of those as it uses fossil so the team would need to do something like this http://blog.paddlefish.net/?p=1004 > BTW I?ve almost definitely oversimplified this. With the number of platforms LC is deployed on I?d be surprised if there isn?t some manual tweaking of project/make files required quite often with a new version of a library. Then when you consider the number of libraries LC depends on it could be resource consuming to ensure all are at their most recent stable release for each LC release. From iowahengst at mac.com Fri Aug 14 20:28:24 2015 From: iowahengst at mac.com (Randy Hengst) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 19:28:24 -0500 Subject: Bug getting group name, plse check In-Reply-To: <125DBD5C-E7C6-4096-B010-4ABF511C7B1B@earthednet.org> References: <55CE39F4.4010004@fourthworld.com> <55CE768D.4020903@tweedly.net> <125DBD5C-E7C6-4096-B010-4ABF511C7B1B@earthednet.org> Message-ID: <38C8F18A-DD19-41E6-B800-637639B005A7@mac.com> Would it work for you needs by just putting this in the button script? put the owner of me be well, randy Randy Hengst www.classroomFocusedSoftware.com > On Aug 14, 2015, at 6:56 PM, William Prothero wrote: > > Alex: > ?the long name of me? is a complete reference to an object, which contains the group name. What I was trying to do is get the name of the group that the button is in. I can parse it from the long name of me, but thought it would pull it out of ?me?. > > Anyway, what do I know? If I?m wrong to expect this, then I won?t report it as a bug (of course). > > Or perhaps there is a better way of getting the group that a control is within. > Best, > Bill >> On Aug 14, 2015, at 4:15 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote: >> >> Is it valid to say (in the mouseUp script) >> ..... of grp me into .... >> >> Isn't 'me' a button, so "grp me" is unclear ? >> >> [ or did you mean to say put the short name of grp tGroup into ... ? ] >> >> -- Alex. >> >> On 14/08/2015 23:50, William Prothero wrote: >>> Folks: >>> I just encountered what appears to be an error in the group function. >>> >>> To duplicate, make a new stack. >>> Make a graphic for a background >>> Make a button >>> group the graphic and the background >>> Name the group something, anything, like ?myGroup? >>> inside the button script, put: >>> >>> on mouseUp >>> send "getGroup" to grp "myGroup" >>> put the long name of me into lName >>> put wordOffset("Group",lName) into nw >>> put word nw+1 of lName into tGroup >>> breakpoint >>> put the short name of grp me into tGroup >>> answer tGroup >>> end mouseUp >>> >>> in the group script, put: >>> on getGroup >>> put the short name of grp me into theGroupName >>> breakpoint >>> end getGroup >>> >>> You will notice that the ?put the short name of grp me ?.? statement, the correct group name is in tGroup. However, if you continue past the breakpoint, the code fails. You can verify that the statement ?put the short name of grp me into tGroup? works by putting a breakpoint in the group script. >>> >>> It?s not a show-stopper, but seems to be a bug. >>> >>> Verify, anybody? >>> >>> Best, >>> Bill >>> >>> William A. Prothero >>> http://es.earthednet.org/ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Fri Aug 14 20:28:56 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 17:28:56 -0700 Subject: Bug getting group name, plse check In-Reply-To: <125DBD5C-E7C6-4096-B010-4ABF511C7B1B@earthednet.org> References: <125DBD5C-E7C6-4096-B010-4ABF511C7B1B@earthednet.org> Message-ID: <55CE87C8.1040806@fourthworld.com> William Prothero wrote: > ?the long name of me? is a complete reference to an object, which > contains the group name. What I was trying to do is get the name of > the group that the button is in. I can parse it from the long name of > me, but thought it would pull it out of ?me?. > > Anyway, what do I know? If I?m wrong to expect this, then I won?t > report it as a bug (of course). LiveCode does so many things for us so well that it's easy to overestimate its intelligence. When you write: put the short name of grp me into tGroup ...what it sees is: put the short name of grp (me) into tGroup ...which becomes evaluated as: put the short name of grp (button id 1033 of group id 1035 of card id 1011 of stack "Some/Path/To/Stackfile.livecode") into tGroup ..which causes the engine to have a minor breakdown trying to figure that out. :) It would be nice if we could write: put the short name of my grp into tGroup While we don't currently have "my " (however cool that might be) we do have a more generic form, the owner: put the short name of the owner of me into tGroup -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Fri Aug 14 20:35:46 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 17:35:46 -0700 Subject: mySQL: PHP or direct access? In-Reply-To: <4789B274-5CB1-4898-B16A-1512332818E4@sweattechnologies.com> References: <4789B274-5CB1-4898-B16A-1512332818E4@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <55CE8962.9000601@fourthworld.com> Monte Goulding wrote: > BTW I?ve almost definitely oversimplified this. With the number of > platforms LC is deployed on I?d be surprised if there isn?t some > manual tweaking of project/make files required quite often with a > new version of a library. Then when you consider the number of > libraries LC depends on it could be resource consuming to ensure > all are at their most recent stable release for each LC release. This may let my ignorance shine too brightly, but couldn't any such integration work be automated? Even if we just consider the security implications (think of everything from the PNG buffer overruns of the olden days to the more recent HeartBleed), it would seem that even if this is a non-trivial effort it would be as important as any other refactoring effort. Once set up, then even the less critical things like bug fixes and performance enhancements just come along for the ride. I wouldn't expect new features to be automatable of course, since that would requiring writing glue for the LiveCode language (happy to let that happen later in v8). Am I being too optimistic here? -- Richard Gaskin LiveCode Community Manager richard at livecode.org From monte at sweattechnologies.com Fri Aug 14 20:33:00 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 10:33:00 +1000 Subject: mySQL: PHP or direct access? In-Reply-To: <55CE8962.9000601@fourthworld.com> References: <4789B274-5CB1-4898-B16A-1512332818E4@sweattechnologies.com> <55CE8962.9000601@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <25A922F5-1236-4283-AF87-6B84763A836C@sweattechnologies.com> > On 15 Aug 2015, at 10:35 am, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > Am I being too optimistic here? Yes it should be possible to automate updates, their CI server should tell them if the automatic update failed for some reason and then they can jump in manually. I?d be surprised if they weren?t planning to automate it at some point. From sundown at pacifier.com Fri Aug 14 20:44:47 2015 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 17:44:47 -0700 Subject: iCalendar [.ics file] Open Source Lib for LiveCode In-Reply-To: <55CE8514.4050501@fourthworld.com> References: <55CE7940.9000207@tweedly.net> <55CE8514.4050501@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: How many years is that copyright good for? John Balgenorth On Aug 14, 2015, at 5:17 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > Just about anything other than explicit transfer to the public domain retains your copyright as the creator of the work. > > > -- > Richard Gaskin > LiveCode Community Manager > richard at livecode.org > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From mickclns at mac.com Fri Aug 14 20:54:46 2015 From: mickclns at mac.com (Mick Collins) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 20:54:46 -0400 Subject: No subject In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 13, 2015, at 12:28 PM, use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com wrote: > > Send use-livecode mailing list submissions to > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > use-livecode-owner at lists.runrev.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of use-livecode digest..." > > > you can find the archives for this list at: > > http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/ > > and search them using this link: > > http://www.google.com/advanced_search?q=site:lists.runrev.com > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: lcVCS in the LC Forums (Monte Goulding) > 2. Re: lcVCS in the LC Forums (Monte Goulding) > 3. Re: lcVCS in the LC Forums (Richmond) > 4. RE: lcVCS in the LC Forums (Paul Richards) > 5. Re: lcVCS in the LC Forums (Phil Jimmieson) > 6. Re: Business Application Framework (Terence Heaford) > 7. Re: Business Application Framework (Terence Heaford) > 8. Re: lcVCS in the LC Forums (Monte Goulding) > 9. Re: Business Application Framework (Mark Waddingham) > 10. Re: lcVCS in the LC Forums (Skip Kimpel) > 11. Re: Business Application Framework (Monte Goulding) > 12. Re: Business Application Framework (Mark Waddingham) > 13. Re: Business Application Framework (Monte Goulding) > 14. LiveCode platform (Richmond) > 15. Re: Business Application Framework (Kevin Miller) > 16. Re: Business Application Framework (Terence Heaford) > 17. Re: lcVCS in the LC Forums (Martin Koob) > 18. Re: [YO EDINBURGH!] Microsoft Open-Sources It's Toolkit For > Making iOS Apps Run On Win 10 (Roger Eller) > 19. Re: [YO EDINBURGH!] Microsoft Open-Sources It's Toolkit For > Making iOS Apps Run On Win 10 (Mark Waddingham) > 20. Re: Business Application Framework (Kevin Miller) > 21. Re: Business Application Framework (J. Landman Gay) > 22. Re: Restore corrupted stack (J. Landman Gay) > 23. How to Create a Free iOS Provisioning Profile (Jana Doughty) > 24. Re: Describing LiveCode (EED-wp Email) > > > ----- > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > Thanks! > > Jana Doughty > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 24 > Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 09:28:17 -0700 > From: EED-wp Email > To: How to use LiveCode > Subject: Re: Describing LiveCode > Message-ID: <7D05F1B0-5EA2-4E4A-86FD-31FC37721C3B at earthednet.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > This is a great way to learn programming, but there are a few caveats that might be considered. > > As I learned to program, i could never get thru more than one lecture (pascal). Ungodly boring! I needed a project and the docs. However, other folks may have different learning styles. Some may be very persistent, working until they get a solution. Others may need more motivation or self confidence to get to a solution. Some learn well from documents. Others may be more visual learners and need to be shown. > > Livecode seems to lend itself very well for a variety of learning styles, so perhaps a variety of teaching methods should be incorporated into a single course. > > Bill > > William Prothero > http://ed.earthednet.org > >> On Aug 13, 2015, at 1:38 AM, Mick Collins wrote: >> >> Just my 2 cents worth: >> >> When I was studying math as an undergraduate and as a graduate student, many of the classes were taught by the (R. L.) Moore Method. In this method the professor gives axioms, definitions and just the statements of the theorems. The students have to prove the theorems themselves. The class time is nearly all spent with students presenting their proofs (lower (higher) ability students present the more easy (difficult) theorems, sometimes more than one proof presented so students see them from different angles). The students get a very deep understanding of the ideas involved because they?ve had to look at them from a lot of different angles and see what will work. It can be easily seen who is working at it and who not (thus providing some kind of evidence for a grade, although in our classes, very few slacked off AT ALL). >> >> My suggestion is a variation on this method for ?teaching" Livecode. Students would be assigned several tiny projects at a time with maybe one or two new mini-concepts per project, having been given what the GUI for the project looks/operates like and a few words to look up in the dictionary and other places. In the Moore method, there are no textbooks nor outward-directed research of any kind ? that, of course, wouldn?t work here because of the difference between computers and mathematics, but limits can be set so that they are largely doing it on their own. There are many variations that could add to the utility, for instance working in pairs, where one works on researching the new ideas, the other constructing the GUI and scripting, alternating from project to project. From mickclns at mac.com Fri Aug 14 21:00:56 2015 From: mickclns at mac.com (Mick Collins) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 21:00:56 -0400 Subject: No subject In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0F61ECE1-6378-40E4-B48C-DAA4E5E27010@mac.com> PREVIOUS POST MISTAKENLY SENT,PLEASE DO NOT POST PREVIOUS NOR THIS MESSAGE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 14, 2015, at 8:54 PM, Mick Collins wrote: > > > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Fri Aug 14 21:30:04 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 18:30:04 -0700 Subject: iCalendar [.ics file] Open Source Lib for LiveCode In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55CE961C.10707@fourthworld.com> John Balgenorth wrote: On Aug 14, 2015, at 5:17 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> Just about anything other than explicit transfer to the public >> domain retains your copyright as the creator of the work. > > How many years is that copyright good for? Depends. It varies by jurisdiction, and if you're Walt Disney Corporation it's much longer than for anyone else. ;) -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From sundown at pacifier.com Fri Aug 14 21:41:38 2015 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 18:41:38 -0700 Subject: iCalendar [.ics file] Open Source Lib for LiveCode In-Reply-To: <55CE961C.10707@fourthworld.com> References: <55CE961C.10707@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <201E4964-CDD2-4857-8039-9DD361AE611C@pacifier.com> Thanks Richard! Money can?t buy everything but it can buy a good tunnel. Corruption can work wonders. John Balgenorth On Aug 14, 2015, at 6:30 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > John Balgenorth wrote: > > On Aug 14, 2015, at 5:17 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > >> Just about anything other than explicit transfer to the public > >> domain retains your copyright as the creator of the work. > > > > How many years is that copyright good for? > > Depends. It varies by jurisdiction, and if you're Walt Disney Corporation it's much longer than for anyone else. ;) > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From mickclns at mac.com Fri Aug 14 21:49:42 2015 From: mickclns at mac.com (Mick Collins) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 21:49:42 -0400 Subject: Describing LiveCode In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks for replying, Bill, I expect there are more than a few caveats to consider. As I implied, in the Moore method an average of maybe 1% of class time is spent by the professor speaking, 0% in lecture mode. I think it would be more in a programming class, but still not enough to nod one out. I very strongly acknowledge different learning styles ? I am a full-time math tutor (and have been trained as an LD (which now stands for learning differences) tutor) and I see learning styles very detailed / close up. It is partly for the differences that I suggested tiny projects ? I think an approach using tiny increments would tend to smooth out some of those differences due to learning style. Perhaps the teacher could also set up projects oriented towards different styles (the teacher, remember, has almost no lecture-type preparation time and would have more than the usual amount of time for designing the look and feel of many tiny projects and this feeds right into your idea of a variety of teaching methods for Livecode. Thanks for your suggestions. - Mick Bill Prothero wrote: > > This is a great way to learn programming, but there are a few caveats that might be considered. > > As I learned to program, i could never get thru more than one lecture (pascal). Ungodly boring! I needed a project and the docs. However, other folks may have different learning styles. Some may be very persistent, working until they get a solution. Others may need more motivation or self confidence to get to a solution. Some learn well from documents. Others may be more visual learners and need to be shown. > > Livecode seems to lend itself very well for a variety of learning styles, so perhaps a variety of teaching methods should be incorporated into a single course. > > Bill > > William Prothero > http://ed.earthednet.org > >> On Aug 13, 2015, at 1:38 AM, Mick Collins wrote: >> >> Just my 2 cents worth: >> >> When I was studying math as an undergraduate and as a graduate student, many of the classes were taught by the (R. L.) Moore Method. In this method the professor gives axioms, definitions and just the statements of the theorems. The students have to prove the theorems themselves. The class time is nearly all spent with students presenting their proofs (lower (higher) ability students present the more easy (difficult) theorems, sometimes more than one proof presented so students see them from different angles). The students get a very deep understanding of the ideas involved because they?ve had to look at them from a lot of different angles and see what will work. It can be easily seen who is working at it and who not (thus providing some kind of evidence for a grade, although in our classes, very few slacked off AT ALL). >> >> My suggestion is a variation on this method for ?teaching" Livecode. Students would be assigned several tiny projects at a time with maybe one or two new mini-concepts per project, having been given what the GUI for the project looks/operates like and a few words to look up in the dictionary and other places. In the Moore method, there are no textbooks nor outward-directed research of any kind ? that, of course, wouldn?t work here because of the difference between computers and mathematics, but limits can be set so that they are largely doing it on their own. There are many variations that could add to the utility, for instance working in pairs, where one works on researching the new ideas, the other constructing the GUI and scripting, alternating from project to project. >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > ------------------------------ > > End of use-livecode Digest, Vol 143, Issue 26 > ********************************************* From brahma at hindu.org Fri Aug 14 22:20:09 2015 From: brahma at hindu.org (Brahmanathaswami) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 16:20:09 -1000 Subject: Downloaded stacks on iOS In-Reply-To: <55CE64CE.8050600@fourthworld.com> References: <55CE64CE.8050600@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <55CEA1D9.7060405@hindu.org> Has any LC developer actually tried? "Third, Apple's stance on this is a little ambiguous. It seems to be allowed by Apple's rules, so long as you don't use your newfound app-updating superpowers to "turn your Dora the Explorer app into a zombie apocalypse app," Arbesfeld says." e.g. if I have an app where all the background graphics fonts, styles navigation etc is all in and approved and the app is live.. then I have a button that says "Play Unjumble"... and we do a call put url ("http://www.mydomain/stacks/unjumble.livecode") into url ("binfile: ~[enginepath]/modules/unjumble.livecode") # (would this be valid syntax... do we need to save LC stacks as binary for them to work) where "unjumble" has the exact same "eye candy" as the main app... so that it looks and feels exactly like the original approved app. Has anyone actually tried this? Can we do it on Android? Swasti Astu, Be Well! Brahmanathaswami Kauai's Hindu Monastery www.HimalayanAcademy.com Richard Gaskin wrote: > Interesting find in my morning reading: > > This little startup is solving one of the biggest frustrations with > Apple's App Store > > > > What his AppHub service does is the equivalent of LiveCode developers > handling updates via downloaded stack files. > > Historically many in our community have avoided that practice on iOS > given Apple's strict rules, but this article describes those rules as > "ambiguous", and thus far Apple hasn't shut down any apps using the > AppHub mechanism (though that may be because there are so few at the > moment). > > Being able to handle our own updates without app store delays is very > exciting - anyone here have any relevant experience with Apple which > would help us appreciate whether downloaded stack files is a good > thing to build one's architecture around, or if Apple is likely to > just snuff out AppHub? > From brahma at hindu.org Fri Aug 14 22:36:24 2015 From: brahma at hindu.org (Brahmanathaswami) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 16:36:24 -1000 Subject: iCalendar [.ics file] Open Source Lib for LiveCode In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55CEA5A8.7090809@hindu.org> Andre had some amazing libs for this it was not iCal specific but broader "vObjectLib" he called it... with that you could roll your own functions easily for iCal.. I use to use it a lot and plan to use it again in a future mobile app. snippets from my old code # Create a new entry put tDate into tEntrydate put GetvObjectPropertyValue(tEvent, "Summary") into tSummary put GetvObjectPropertyValue(tEvent, "Description") into tRawDescription put crunchDescription(tRawDescription) into tDescription else # date has not changed so we just pile up the events we want put ", " & GetvObjectPropertyValue(tEvent, "Summary") after tExtraEvents next repeat If anyone is interested I can ask him if I can release it... it was really robust and pretty bug free...the stack script has over 250 vCard functions, including a lot of iCal stuff. still works... .ics format has not changed much for years. Swasti Astu, Be Well! Brahmanathaswami Kauai's Hindu Monastery www.HimalayanAcademy.com Scott Rossi wrote: > Hi Todd: > > There have been projects involving ICS on the mail list before. Here's > one: > http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/pre-ANN-ICS-library-td467155 > 1.html > > > Regards, > > Scott Rossi > Creative Director > Tactile Media, UX/UI Design > > > > > On 8/14/15, 10:45 AM, "Todd Fabacher" wrote: > >> Over in the Create It with LiveCode Class we are working on the iCalendar >> App for the iPad, and we have a request to create an open source project >> to >> read and write to the iCalendar universal calendar file format [.ics]. It >> is used by several email and calendar programs, including Microsoft >> Outlook, Google Calendar, and Apple iCalendar; enabling users to publish >> and share calendar information on the Web and over email; often used for >> sending meeting requests to other users, who can import the events into >> their own calendars. Here are the specs: >> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICalendar >> https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2445.txt >> >> If you are interested and/or if you are wish in getting involved please >> let >> me know on the forum topic: >> >> http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=25062 >> >> Thanks, >> >> Todd Fabacher >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Fri Aug 14 22:43:53 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 19:43:53 -0700 Subject: Downloaded stacks on iOS In-Reply-To: <55CEA1D9.7060405@hindu.org> References: <55CEA1D9.7060405@hindu.org> Message-ID: <55CEA769.9010501@fourthworld.com> Brahmanathaswami wrote: > Brahmanathaswami brahma at hindu.org > Has anyone actually tried this? > Can we do it on Android? There's no technical reason this couldn't be done. Most of my desktop apps do this, and I do all my mobile testing with a plugin that copies the stack file I'm working on to a server and then I have one test app on my device with buttons to download any stack I need to test. Android has no restriction on this, and the applicability of Apple's guidelines to this seems, as they say, "vague". I've not found the specific text of the app store dev TOS that prohibits that, and unless it were abused I can't see how it differs much from downloading any binary data. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Fri Aug 14 22:48:56 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 19:48:56 -0700 Subject: mySQL: PHP or direct access? In-Reply-To: <9D10621D-CC2C-4BC8-AE59-5DF81C800FDF@sweattechnologies.com> References: <55CE7E8D.5010009@fourthworld.com> <9D10621D-CC2C-4BC8-AE59-5DF81C800FDF@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <55CEA898.8020504@ahsoftware.net> On 08/14/2015 04:50 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > I believe Mark Wieder had a good look at revDB and decided to stop looking ;-) Yeah, partly I ran away screaming after poking around under the hood, and partly the rev team in 2006 declared all the db bugs in bugzilla as 'resolved' in favor of a single omnibus bug report that would take care of everything with a db layer rewrite. http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=3662 Kevin's comment is priceless. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Fri Aug 14 22:54:39 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 19:54:39 -0700 Subject: Curl from shell In-Reply-To: <55CE73B3.9090800@gmail.com> References: <55CE65FB.9090602@gmail.com> <55CE6872.6090309@fourthworld.com> <55CE73B3.9090800@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55CEA9EF.7010700@ahsoftware.net> On 08/14/2015 04:03 PM, Marty Knapp wrote: > Thanks Richard, > I just solved it - I didn't have it formatted correctly for LC. Sheesh! I didn't even get a chance to reply. Yeah, I use curl and/or wget all the time from LC to get around the limitations of liburl. A little tricky getting the syntax down properly, as you've discovered, but it does the trick nicely. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From monte at sweattechnologies.com Fri Aug 14 23:16:08 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 13:16:08 +1000 Subject: Downloaded stacks on iOS In-Reply-To: <55CEA769.9010501@fourthworld.com> References: <55CEA1D9.7060405@hindu.org> <55CEA769.9010501@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <02FEC1E9-4807-4712-9C93-03BD17EBD46E@sweattechnologies.com> It's not vague at all. It's right there in the article and the only way these guys can do what they are doing is because their apps are JavaScript as I said before. Read the clause it explicitly rules out what you are talking about unless it's JavaScript run in WebKit or JavaScriptCore. Sent from my iPhone > On 15 Aug 2015, at 12:43 pm, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > Android has no restriction on this, and the applicability of Apple's guidelines to this seems, as they say, "vague". I've not found the specific text of the app store dev TOS that prohibits that, and unless it were abused I can't see how it differs much from downloading any binary data. From monte at sweattechnologies.com Fri Aug 14 23:16:08 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 13:16:08 +1000 Subject: Downloaded stacks on iOS In-Reply-To: <55CEA769.9010501@fourthworld.com> References: <55CEA1D9.7060405@hindu.org> <55CEA769.9010501@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <02FEC1E9-4807-4712-9C93-03BD17EBD46E@sweattechnologies.com> It's not vague at all. It's right there in the article and the only way these guys can do what they are doing is because their apps are JavaScript as I said before. Read the clause it explicitly rules out what you are talking about unless it's JavaScript run in WebKit or JavaScriptCore. Sent from my iPhone > On 15 Aug 2015, at 12:43 pm, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > Android has no restriction on this, and the applicability of Apple's guidelines to this seems, as they say, "vague". I've not found the specific text of the app store dev TOS that prohibits that, and unless it were abused I can't see how it differs much from downloading any binary data. From bogdanoff at me.com Sat Aug 15 00:12:21 2015 From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 21:12:21 -0700 Subject: Restore corrupted stack In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0FE26C6B-52A1-472A-9A7D-F5EF80C1913A@me.com> Yes, I understand the change in stack format. Unfortunately the stack won?t open in any version of LC 7. I always get the stack corrupted dialog. Peter > On Aug 13, 2015, at 8:46 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > > On August 13, 2015 4:24:33 AM CDT, Peter Bogdanoff wrote: >> >> I was working in LC 7.1 dp 1 and chose to not save a stack, quit, >> reopened and got the message. >> >> On my Mac the TimeMachine backups from earlier in the evening are also >> reporting as corrupted. I had also saved a version from the Finder >> without quitting the program. > > These are the symptoms of a stack saved in LC 7 and then reopened in LC 6. Check to be sure you've launched the correct version of LiveCode. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From alex at tweedly.net Sat Aug 15 03:55:44 2015 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 08:55:44 +0100 Subject: iCalendar [.ics file] Open Source Lib for LiveCode In-Reply-To: <55CEA5A8.7090809@hindu.org> References: <55CEA5A8.7090809@hindu.org> Message-ID: <55CEF080.2070207@tweedly.net> Yes, vObjectLib is great, has many functions that help with reading and correctly writing .ics files. I wish I had remembered vObjectLib and based my library on top of it :-( (btw - it is still publicly available at http://fon.nu/vobjectlib unless there was a later version anywhere else) However, vObjectLib has very little to help with correctly interpreting .ics files - so if you need to deal with - multiple time zones - the variety of ways that time zone settings or time zone info can be represented - recurring events - multi-day events (even from 11pm until 2am counts as multi-day) - lots of other oddities then you have to do that yourself. -- Alex. On 15/08/2015 03:36, Brahmanathaswami wrote: > Andre had some amazing libs for this > > it was not iCal specific but broader "vObjectLib" he called it... > > with that you could roll your own functions easily for iCal.. > I use to use it a lot and plan to use it again in a future mobile app. > > snippets from my old code > > # Create a new entry > put tDate into tEntrydate > put GetvObjectPropertyValue(tEvent, "Summary") into tSummary > put GetvObjectPropertyValue(tEvent, "Description") into > tRawDescription > > put crunchDescription(tRawDescription) into tDescription > > else > # date has not changed so we just pile up the events we want > put ", " & GetvObjectPropertyValue(tEvent, "Summary") > after tExtraEvents > next repeat > > > If anyone is interested I can ask him if I can release it... > it was really robust and pretty bug free...the stack script has over > 250 vCard functions, including a lot of iCal stuff. > > still works... .ics format has not changed much for years. > > > > > Swasti Astu, Be Well! > Brahmanathaswami > > Kauai's Hindu Monastery > www.HimalayanAcademy.com > > > > Scott Rossi wrote: >> Hi Todd: >> >> There have been projects involving ICS on the mail list before. Here's >> one: >> http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/pre-ANN-ICS-library-td467155 >> >> 1.html >> >> >> Regards, >> >> Scott Rossi >> Creative Director >> Tactile Media, UX/UI Design >> >> >> >> >> On 8/14/15, 10:45 AM, "Todd Fabacher" wrote: >> >>> Over in the Create It with LiveCode Class we are working on the >>> iCalendar >>> App for the iPad, and we have a request to create an open source >>> project >>> to >>> read and write to the iCalendar universal calendar file format >>> [.ics]. It >>> is used by several email and calendar programs, including Microsoft >>> Outlook, Google Calendar, and Apple iCalendar; enabling users to >>> publish >>> and share calendar information on the Web and over email; often used >>> for >>> sending meeting requests to other users, who can import the events into >>> their own calendars. Here are the specs: >>> >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICalendar >>> https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2445.txt >>> >>> If you are interested and/or if you are wish in getting involved please >>> let >>> me know on the forum topic: >>> >>> http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=25062 >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Todd Fabacher >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From peter.brett at livecode.com Sat Aug 15 05:03:55 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 10:03:55 +0100 Subject: mySQL: PHP or direct =?UTF-8?Q?access=3F?= In-Reply-To: References: <55CE39F4.4010004@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On 2015-08-14 23:31, Peter Haworth wrote: > The SQLite library supplied with LC is months old, and a large > number of bug fixes and several useful enhancements are missing. In LiveCode 6.7.7-rc-2 and LiveCode 7.1.0-rc-1, we provide libSQLite 3.8.10.2, released on 2015-05-20. Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Engine Development Team From brahma at hindu.org Sat Aug 15 06:04:35 2015 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 00:04:35 -1000 Subject: iCalendar [.ics file] Open Source Lib for LiveCode In-Reply-To: <55CEF080.2070207@tweedly.net> References: <55CEA5A8.7090809@hindu.org> <55CEF080.2070207@tweedly.net> Message-ID: <-7254090208274474328@unknownmsgid> Where is your library I missed the Link Swasti Astu, Be Well Brahmanathaswami www.himalayanacademy.com > On Aug 14, 2015, at 9:56 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote: > > However, vObjectLib has very little to help with correctly interpreting .ics files - so if you need to deal with > - multiple time zones > - the variety of ways that time zone settings or time zone info can be represented > - recurring events > - multi-day events (even from 11pm until 2am counts as multi-day) > - lots of other oddities > then you have to do that yourself. From colinholgate at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 09:45:52 2015 From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 09:45:52 -0400 Subject: Downloaded stacks on iOS In-Reply-To: <02FEC1E9-4807-4712-9C93-03BD17EBD46E@sweattechnologies.com> References: <55CEA1D9.7060405@hindu.org> <55CEA769.9010501@fourthworld.com> <02FEC1E9-4807-4712-9C93-03BD17EBD46E@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <8D77F270-5538-46B2-8A5A-C98FC1089C14@gmail.com> That brings up the possibility of having a non-Javascript stack app loading a browser control with an HTML5 based stack that is online. > On Aug 14, 2015, at 11:16 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > > It's not vague at all. It's right there in the article and the only way these guys can do what they are doing is because their apps are JavaScript as I said before. Read the clause it explicitly rules out what you are talking about unless it's JavaScript run in WebKit or JavaScriptCore. From bodine at bodinetraininggames.com Sat Aug 15 10:08:00 2015 From: bodine at bodinetraininggames.com (tbodine) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 07:08:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: <43CD8158-FDFC-4DB0-A695-D8E8832C2E92@gmail.com> References: <43CD8158-FDFC-4DB0-A695-D8E8832C2E92@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1439647680004-4695096.post@n4.nabble.com> Peter W A Wood wrote > Reworked Multimedia Support > New Player Completed on OS X. Windows/Linux ??? > > I?d appreciate if somebody could let me know the status of the items about > which I?m unclear and any mistakes I have made. Hi Peter. Thanks for the report card summary. I was told by LiveCode support recently that the "New Player for Windows" will be in a LC 8 release. I don't understand why replacing QT on Windows doesn't get the same priority given to multimedia on the Mac when Apple replaced QT with AV Foundations. (The problem has been festering for years. Here's just one example from 2013: http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=16367 ) Thanks, Tom Bodine -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Open-Source-Kickstarter-Report-Card-tp4695018p4695096.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From johnpatten at me.com Sat Aug 15 10:36:43 2015 From: johnpatten at me.com (JOHN PATTEN) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 07:36:43 -0700 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: <55CE3C16.6000005@hyperactivesw.com> References: <2F7CB0D2-6DE0-4918-BAD3-DA1149C5DA2E@sweattechnologies.com> <55CBD269.6010407@fourthworld.com> <55CC02D3.7010300@hindu.org> <54DA4952-28ED-4ACB-9428-6CE2BDD662F8@mac.com> <55CE3C16.6000005@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <7C417982-00DC-4061-B8DB-2C794E3F28A4@me.com> Hi All! I'd second what Graham and Jacqueline shared. My version control system is, "Save as..." and the corresponding file creation dates. I would be interested in learning more about versions control and tracking, though LiveCode development is not my primary job. (My primary job is K8 education and technology.) A hands on tutorial, where we are using the system collaboratively, on a "Hello World" project might be a good start. For students today, interested in programming and engineering, exposure to this type of system sounds like a primary skill to me. John Patten SUSD Sent from my iPad > On Aug 14, 2015, at 12:05 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > >> On 8/14/2015 1:47 PM, Graham Samuel wrote: >> To me the ideal is a system which can be explained to a team in an >> hour and which everyone can then stick to. My (fractured) reading of >> this conversation gives me the idea that we are approaching >> Gnome-ville, where really nothing can be explained in an hour. > > That's kind of where I'm at too. I think I'd really like github, and the things Marty said were enticing, but it's more than I can absorb quickly and apparently requires study. In fact, there's so much to learn that there are entire books explaining it. > > That's more than I have time to devote to it, especially since I don't usually work in teams, so I stick with what I know which is backups and notes. > > If someone who knows this stuff puts together something LC-compatible and idiot-friendly, I'll take another look. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dsc at swcp.com Sat Aug 15 10:37:51 2015 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 08:37:51 -0600 Subject: mouse pointer hot spot is way off Message-ID: <93B3AE25-AC20-4998-A7BF-A935E6B636BD@swcp.com> Hi, I?m an old-timer who has been away from the list for a while. I?ve run into a problem and I think it is a LiveCode problem but it might be an OS X problem or some combination. I?m using 6.7.5. Very often the hot spot is off, usually about 50-100 pixels high, for one or more windows in the IDE. I usually notice it in the editor where it is off by 3 lines. Almost always it is just vertical. It also happens in my stacks. This only applies to content, not the title bar or the menu along the top. I wasn?t able to find anything among the bugs. It might have been coincidence but one time it didn?t go away until I rebooted. I was on Mavericks but now am on Yosemite and still see it. Insight? Anybody else seen this? Or is this old news? Thanks! Dar Old guy still doing LiveCode programming for folks From dochawk at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 10:58:45 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 07:58:45 -0700 Subject: mouse pointer hot spot is way off In-Reply-To: <93B3AE25-AC20-4998-A7BF-A935E6B636BD@swcp.com> References: <93B3AE25-AC20-4998-A7BF-A935E6B636BD@swcp.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Aug 15, 2015 at 7:37 AM, Dar Scott wrote: > Very often the hot spot is off, usually about 50-100 pixels high, for one > or more windows in the IDE. I usually notice it in the editor where it is > off by 3 lines. Almost always it is just vertical. > I see this on a regular basis in 7. I've found no solution but restarting. I just tend to write it off as one more annoying bit of incompetence in the IDE; it isn't nearly as frustrating and time consuming as the shade variable bug, but takes more of my time than the menu inconsistent states. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From dochawk at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 11:16:41 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 08:16:41 -0700 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: References: <55CB9FA1.30607@fourthworld.com> <2BFBCFB7-45E1-4113-9B97-21487C99A53C@m-r-d.de> <55CBAD21.5090305@fourthworld.com> <55CBB39C.40905@fourthworld.com> <2F7CB0D2-6DE0-4918-BAD3-DA1149C5DA2E@sweattechnologies.com> <55CBD269.6010407@fourthworld.com> <4C8CDE15-C200-4EA8-9B59-159858F53670@sweattechnologies.com> <1439564957521-4695027.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 1:46 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > As far as lcVCS goes I actually think it would be good better if we could > work with Mark and Peter to get the file format into the engine. It really is insane that it isn't built in Along with their customPropertySet, there could be a "vcsIgnoresSet", or a group of properties of vcsIgnoresPosition, vcsIgnoresHilite, vcsIgnoresText, vcsIgnoresVis, vcsIgnoresSize. There could be a vcsIgnore checkbook on custom properties -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From dochawk at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 11:40:59 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 08:40:59 -0700 Subject: mySQL: PHP or direct access? In-Reply-To: <9D10621D-CC2C-4BC8-AE59-5DF81C800FDF@sweattechnologies.com> References: <55CE7E8D.5010009@fourthworld.com> <9D10621D-CC2C-4BC8-AE59-5DF81C800FDF@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 4:50 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > I believe Mark Wieder had a good look at revDB and decided to stop looking > ;-) Was it Mark that warned me off a few weeks ago when I wanted to add a couple of lines to enable ssl for postgres? -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sat Aug 15 11:57:50 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 08:57:50 -0700 Subject: git resources Message-ID: <55CF617E.1050707@ahsoftware.net> To avoid repeating myself, here's a link from the web forum to some git resources. http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=19526 -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat Aug 15 11:58:36 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 10:58:36 -0500 Subject: mouse pointer hot spot is way off In-Reply-To: References: <93B3AE25-AC20-4998-A7BF-A935E6B636BD@swcp.com> Message-ID: <773CF469-E47B-428B-A8E6-BC70937BDAF6@hyperactivesw.com> On August 15, 2015 9:58:45 AM CDT, "Dr. Hawkins" wrote: >On Sat, Aug 15, 2015 at 7:37 AM, Dar Scott wrote: > >> Very often the hot spot is off, usually about 50-100 pixels high, for >one >> or more windows in the IDE. I usually notice it in the editor where >it is >> off by 3 lines. Almost always it is just vertical. >> > >I see this on a regular basis in 7. I haven't seen it yet. Are those who have seen it using a third-party mouse? -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From bonnmike at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 12:28:56 2015 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 10:28:56 -0600 Subject: mouse pointer hot spot is way off In-Reply-To: <773CF469-E47B-428B-A8E6-BC70937BDAF6@hyperactivesw.com> References: <93B3AE25-AC20-4998-A7BF-A935E6B636BD@swcp.com> <773CF469-E47B-428B-A8E6-BC70937BDAF6@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: If its a bluetooth mouse, you might disconnect, and reconnect it and see if the problem goes away. Or try a wired mouse for a bit and see if it works better. I think I also read somewhere that turning off wifi for a min, then back on can reset the connection to a bluetooth mouse. (some shared hardware between them, namely the antenna and...? ) Oh. And silly thought, but if your mouse is wireless with changeable batteries, might swap em out. Weird that you only notice it in LC of course, so /shrug.. On Sat, Aug 15, 2015 at 9:58 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > On August 15, 2015 9:58:45 AM CDT, "Dr. Hawkins" > wrote: > >On Sat, Aug 15, 2015 at 7:37 AM, Dar Scott wrote: > > > >> Very often the hot spot is off, usually about 50-100 pixels high, for > >one > >> or more windows in the IDE. I usually notice it in the editor where > >it is > >> off by 3 lines. Almost always it is just vertical. > >> > > > >I see this on a regular basis in 7. > > I haven't seen it yet. Are those who have seen it using a third-party > mouse? > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From prothero at earthednet.org Sat Aug 15 12:34:57 2015 From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 09:34:57 -0700 Subject: Bug getting group name, plse check In-Reply-To: <55CE87C8.1040806@fourthworld.com> References: <125DBD5C-E7C6-4096-B010-4ABF511C7B1B@earthednet.org> <55CE87C8.1040806@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <1557E0F3-ECA2-41C5-B3F9-DF8D9C38A3AC@earthednet.org> Richard: Hmm?. Thought I tried that. But, I tried it again and it worked. Thanks for the info. put the short name of the owner of me into tGroup ?works fine. Best, Bill > On Aug 14, 2015, at 5:28 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > William Prothero wrote: > > > ?the long name of me? is a complete reference to an object, which > > contains the group name. What I was trying to do is get the name of > > the group that the button is in. I can parse it from the long name of > > me, but thought it would pull it out of ?me?. > > > > Anyway, what do I know? If I?m wrong to expect this, then I won?t > > report it as a bug (of course). > > LiveCode does so many things for us so well that it's easy to overestimate its intelligence. > > When you write: > > put the short name of grp me into tGroup > > ...what it sees is: > > put the short name of grp (me) into tGroup > > ...which becomes evaluated as: > > put the short name of grp (button id 1033 of group id 1035 of card id 1011 of stack "Some/Path/To/Stackfile.livecode") into tGroup > > ..which causes the engine to have a minor breakdown trying to figure that out. :) > > It would be nice if we could write: > > put the short name of my grp into tGroup > > While we don't currently have "my " (however cool that might be) we do have a more generic form, the owner: > > put the short name of the owner of me into tGroup > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dsc at swcp.com Sat Aug 15 12:39:45 2015 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 10:39:45 -0600 Subject: mouse pointer hot spot is way off In-Reply-To: <773CF469-E47B-428B-A8E6-BC70937BDAF6@hyperactivesw.com> References: <93B3AE25-AC20-4998-A7BF-A935E6B636BD@swcp.com> <773CF469-E47B-428B-A8E6-BC70937BDAF6@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <2233699C-16C7-45BB-A5C2-92E6C023D3A6@swcp.com> It doesn?t feel like a 3rd party mouse issue to me, but that is only because the problem is limited to LiveCode stack content. (I have a Macally EcoMouse hooked up at the moment.) This occurs in the content of some LiveCode windows. I don?t think I?ve ever seen it outside of that. It most often shows up in the editor, but I?ve seen it in a stack I?m creating. Such a stack might have buttons, fields and option menus on it. It doesn?t feel like an IDE thing to me, but I hope it is. That is, I don?t want to see this in a standalone. Maybe the IDE sometimes uses or modifies a cursor image? I?m not now working on cursors or image hotspots or Windows menus or anything like that, so I don?t think it is my code that is doing anything. This happened on Mavericks and then on the same machine upgraded to Yosemite. I am not sure, but I think one time i had to restart OS X. I have trouble believing that. However it might be a Gatsby Bug, involving both LiveCode and OS X. (I made up that term. In The Great Gatsby, a lady says accidents occur when two bad drivers enter the same intersection.) Dar > On Aug 15, 2015, at 9:58 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > > On August 15, 2015 9:58:45 AM CDT, "Dr. Hawkins" wrote: >> On Sat, Aug 15, 2015 at 7:37 AM, Dar Scott wrote: >> >>> Very often the hot spot is off, usually about 50-100 pixels high, for >> one >>> or more windows in the IDE. I usually notice it in the editor where >> it is >>> off by 3 lines. Almost always it is just vertical. >>> >> >> I see this on a regular basis in 7. > > I haven't seen it yet. Are those who have seen it using a third-party mouse? > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bonnmike at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 12:45:59 2015 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 10:45:59 -0600 Subject: mouse pointer hot spot is way off In-Reply-To: <2233699C-16C7-45BB-A5C2-92E6C023D3A6@swcp.com> References: <93B3AE25-AC20-4998-A7BF-A935E6B636BD@swcp.com> <773CF469-E47B-428B-A8E6-BC70937BDAF6@hyperactivesw.com> <2233699C-16C7-45BB-A5C2-92E6C023D3A6@swcp.com> Message-ID: makes me wonder.. There are several ways the cursor can change shape while in use. I wonder if the ball gets dropped somewhere along the way. I've seen my cursor get stuck occasionally in the "pane resize" mode, though I can't reliably reproduce it. When this occurs its nearly always in the editor. (mainly because the editor has panes to resize?) It might not hurt to set the mousecursor to something else, then revert it to standard and see if the problem resolves. If it does, at least its a piece of information. (The hotspot for a cursor would change based on cursor shape, and if the hotspot doesn't update on change for some reason, that would account for the issue) On Sat, Aug 15, 2015 at 10:39 AM, Dar Scott wrote: > It doesn?t feel like a 3rd party mouse issue to me, but that is only > because the problem is limited to LiveCode stack content. (I have a > Macally EcoMouse hooked up at the moment.) > > This occurs in the content of some LiveCode windows. I don?t think I?ve > ever seen it outside of that. It most often shows up in the editor, but > I?ve seen it in a stack I?m creating. Such a stack might have buttons, > fields and option menus on it. > > It doesn?t feel like an IDE thing to me, but I hope it is. That is, I > don?t want to see this in a standalone. Maybe the IDE sometimes uses or > modifies a cursor image? > > I?m not now working on cursors or image hotspots or Windows menus or > anything like that, so I don?t think it is my code that is doing anything. > > This happened on Mavericks and then on the same machine upgraded to > Yosemite. > > I am not sure, but I think one time i had to restart OS X. I have trouble > believing that. However it might be a Gatsby Bug, involving both LiveCode > and OS X. (I made up that term. In The Great Gatsby, a lady says > accidents occur when two bad drivers enter the same intersection.) > > Dar > > > > > On Aug 15, 2015, at 9:58 AM, J. Landman Gay > wrote: > > > > On August 15, 2015 9:58:45 AM CDT, "Dr. Hawkins" > wrote: > >> On Sat, Aug 15, 2015 at 7:37 AM, Dar Scott wrote: > >> > >>> Very often the hot spot is off, usually about 50-100 pixels high, for > >> one > >>> or more windows in the IDE. I usually notice it in the editor where > >> it is > >>> off by 3 lines. Almost always it is just vertical. > >>> > >> > >> I see this on a regular basis in 7. > > > > I haven't seen it yet. Are those who have seen it using a third-party > mouse? > > -- > > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From pete at lcsql.com Sat Aug 15 13:30:19 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 17:30:19 +0000 Subject: mySQL: PHP or direct access? In-Reply-To: References: <55CE39F4.4010004@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Excellent, thank you Peter. Had not had a chance to look at the release notes for those two versions yet. It doesn't look like the referenced bug report 14289 has been updated to reflect this. Couple of follow up questions. Has the sqlite user authentication module been enabled in this version of the library? Details are at http://www.sqlite.org/src/doc/trunk/ext/userauth/user-auth.txt. There are some new sqlite APIs involved with this which I believe would require corresponding new LC database functions. Can you comment on my request to allow LC users to dynamically load an sqlite library of their choice? It seems that capability would relieve the team from having to keep up to date with the SQLite library, except of course in situations where the LC interface to the sqlite library requires a change. Thanks, Pete On Sat, Aug 15, 2015 at 2:04 AM Peter TB Brett wrote: > On 2015-08-14 23:31, Peter Haworth wrote: > > The SQLite library supplied with LC is months old, and a large > > number of bug fixes and several useful enhancements are missing. > > In LiveCode 6.7.7-rc-2 and LiveCode 7.1.0-rc-1, we provide libSQLite > 3.8.10.2, released on 2015-05-20. > > Peter > > -- > Dr Peter Brett > LiveCode Engine Development Team > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From bonnmike at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 13:52:10 2015 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 11:52:10 -0600 Subject: How to minimize delay when playing an audio clip Message-ID: I have an audio clip that I'm using as a sound effect. I try to trigger the play start FIRST in my game loop, but no matter what methods I try (even breaking it out of the game loop itself) there is a pretty hefty lag time before it starts playing. Enough so that its possible to have an event happen, and stop the play of the clip before it ever starts. I don't think i'm having issues with a bound cpu, I think 'play audioclip "myclip" looping' is just that slow. If I hold the key down, it works fine, animation keeps up, and stop is pretty much instantaneous. Is there a way to get this working better? I'll try with an actual player next, but I thought having the clip as part of the stack would provide the best results. Also, a quick question.. I assume there is no way to modify the tone of a clip on the fly? IE: Simulate doppler shift.. From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat Aug 15 14:18:35 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 13:18:35 -0500 Subject: Restore corrupted stack In-Reply-To: <0FE26C6B-52A1-472A-9A7D-F5EF80C1913A@me.com> References: <0FE26C6B-52A1-472A-9A7D-F5EF80C1913A@me.com> Message-ID: <55CF827B.7080203@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/14/2015 11:12 PM, Peter Bogdanoff wrote: > Yes, I understand the change in stack format. Unfortunately the stack > won?t open in any version of LC 7. I always get the stack corrupted > dialog. In that case I think the team would like to see the stack, so it's probably time for a bug report. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat Aug 15 14:31:16 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 13:31:16 -0500 Subject: mouse pointer hot spot is way off In-Reply-To: <2233699C-16C7-45BB-A5C2-92E6C023D3A6@swcp.com> References: <93B3AE25-AC20-4998-A7BF-A935E6B636BD@swcp.com> <773CF469-E47B-428B-A8E6-BC70937BDAF6@hyperactivesw.com> <2233699C-16C7-45BB-A5C2-92E6C023D3A6@swcp.com> Message-ID: <55CF8574.4010502@hyperactivesw.com> In addition to the tests that Mike suggested, it would be interesting to see what you get back if you ask for the mouseloc in the message box when you see the problem. Put the cursor up near the 0,0 point of the editor so you have a visual reference. I do like the term "Gatsby bug." :) On 8/15/2015 11:39 AM, Dar Scott wrote: > It doesn?t feel like a 3rd party mouse issue to me, but that is only because the problem is limited to LiveCode stack content. (I have a Macally EcoMouse hooked up at the moment.) > > This occurs in the content of some LiveCode windows. I don?t think I?ve ever seen it outside of that. It most often shows up in the editor, but I?ve seen it in a stack I?m creating. Such a stack might have buttons, fields and option menus on it. > > It doesn?t feel like an IDE thing to me, but I hope it is. That is, I don?t want to see this in a standalone. Maybe the IDE sometimes uses or modifies a cursor image? > > I?m not now working on cursors or image hotspots or Windows menus or anything like that, so I don?t think it is my code that is doing anything. > > This happened on Mavericks and then on the same machine upgraded to Yosemite. > > I am not sure, but I think one time i had to restart OS X. I have trouble believing that. However it might be a Gatsby Bug, involving both LiveCode and OS X. (I made up that term. In The Great Gatsby, a lady says accidents occur when two bad drivers enter the same intersection.) > > Dar > > > >> On Aug 15, 2015, at 9:58 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote: >> >> On August 15, 2015 9:58:45 AM CDT, "Dr. Hawkins" wrote: >>> On Sat, Aug 15, 2015 at 7:37 AM, Dar Scott wrote: >>> >>>> Very often the hot spot is off, usually about 50-100 pixels high, for >>> one >>>> or more windows in the IDE. I usually notice it in the editor where >>> it is >>>> off by 3 lines. Almost always it is just vertical. >>>> >>> >>> I see this on a regular basis in 7. >> >> I haven't seen it yet. Are those who have seen it using a third-party mouse? >> -- >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From bonnmike at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 14:34:24 2015 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 12:34:24 -0600 Subject: text files as stacks Message-ID: Could someone point me towards information on using text files as stacks? Specifically structure requirements? I suck at getting useful info from the forum search. From bonnmike at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 14:37:41 2015 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 12:37:41 -0600 Subject: How to minimize delay when playing an audio clip In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Found a method that works with audioclips, as long as I only need to play 1. Rather than starting and stopping it, I set the playloudness to 0 or 100 and just leave it looping. (it doesn't appear that the playloudness can be set for individual clips.) Will try with players instead since using only 1 sound effect is a bit unrealistic. Thanks! On Sat, Aug 15, 2015 at 11:52 AM, Mike Bonner wrote: > I have an audio clip that I'm using as a sound effect. I try to trigger > the play start FIRST in my game loop, but no matter what methods I try > (even breaking it out of the game loop itself) there is a pretty hefty lag > time before it starts playing. Enough so that its possible to have an > event happen, and stop the play of the clip before it ever starts. > > I don't think i'm having issues with a bound cpu, I think 'play audioclip > "myclip" looping' is just that slow. If I hold the key down, it works > fine, animation keeps up, and stop is pretty much instantaneous. Is there > a way to get this working better? I'll try with an actual player next, but > I thought having the clip as part of the stack would provide the best > results. > > > Also, a quick question.. I assume there is no way to modify the tone of a > clip on the fly? IE: Simulate doppler shift.. > From bonnmike at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 14:39:17 2015 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 12:39:17 -0600 Subject: How to minimize delay when playing an audio clip In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: DOH. NEvermind. Use the ID of the clip. Reading the dictionary. A useful skill I need to develop On Sat, Aug 15, 2015 at 12:37 PM, Mike Bonner wrote: > Found a method that works with audioclips, as long as I only need to play > 1. Rather than starting and stopping it, I set the playloudness to 0 or > 100 and just leave it looping. (it doesn't appear that the playloudness can > be set for individual clips.) > > Will try with players instead since using only 1 sound effect is a bit > unrealistic. > > Thanks! > > On Sat, Aug 15, 2015 at 11:52 AM, Mike Bonner wrote: > >> I have an audio clip that I'm using as a sound effect. I try to trigger >> the play start FIRST in my game loop, but no matter what methods I try >> (even breaking it out of the game loop itself) there is a pretty hefty lag >> time before it starts playing. Enough so that its possible to have an >> event happen, and stop the play of the clip before it ever starts. >> >> I don't think i'm having issues with a bound cpu, I think 'play audioclip >> "myclip" looping' is just that slow. If I hold the key down, it works >> fine, animation keeps up, and stop is pretty much instantaneous. Is there >> a way to get this working better? I'll try with an actual player next, but >> I thought having the clip as part of the stack would provide the best >> results. >> >> >> Also, a quick question.. I assume there is no way to modify the tone of >> a clip on the fly? IE: Simulate doppler shift.. >> > > From prothero at earthednet.org Sat Aug 15 15:15:00 2015 From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 12:15:00 -0700 Subject: Bug getting group name, plse check In-Reply-To: <1557E0F3-ECA2-41C5-B3F9-DF8D9C38A3AC@earthednet.org> References: <125DBD5C-E7C6-4096-B010-4ABF511C7B1B@earthednet.org> <55CE87C8.1040806@fourthworld.com> <1557E0F3-ECA2-41C5-B3F9-DF8D9C38A3AC@earthednet.org> Message-ID: <8F1224DA-0F8F-486A-AB82-204059790B3E@earthednet.org> Richard: This is an example of how difficult it can be to find docs on an operation that isn?t commonly used and that doesn?t have ?obvious? syntax. Even the livecode books by Mark Schonewill and Colin don?t allow for finding this kind of information, especially in the index. If the contents of these books wer electronically searchable, that might help a lot, because there is a lot of information buried in the text that isn?t quickly find-able. Perhaps if there was a dictionary based, not on livecode commands, but on operations that the user wants to perform, with great search, it would be helpful. Then again, this list is a great source of this kind of info too. Best, Bill > On Aug 15, 2015, at 9:34 AM, William Prothero wrote: > > Richard: > Hmm?. Thought I tried that. But, I tried it again and it worked. Thanks for the info. > put the short name of the owner of me into tGroup ?works fine. > Best, > Bill > >> On Aug 14, 2015, at 5:28 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> >> William Prothero wrote: >> >>> ?the long name of me? is a complete reference to an object, which >>> contains the group name. What I was trying to do is get the name of >>> the group that the button is in. I can parse it from the long name of >>> me, but thought it would pull it out of ?me?. >>> >>> Anyway, what do I know? If I?m wrong to expect this, then I won?t >>> report it as a bug (of course). >> >> LiveCode does so many things for us so well that it's easy to overestimate its intelligence. >> >> When you write: >> >> put the short name of grp me into tGroup >> >> ...what it sees is: >> >> put the short name of grp (me) into tGroup >> >> ...which becomes evaluated as: >> >> put the short name of grp (button id 1033 of group id 1035 of card id 1011 of stack "Some/Path/To/Stackfile.livecode") into tGroup >> >> ..which causes the engine to have a minor breakdown trying to figure that out. :) >> >> It would be nice if we could write: >> >> put the short name of my grp into tGroup >> >> While we don't currently have "my " (however cool that might be) we do have a more generic form, the owner: >> >> put the short name of the owner of me into tGroup >> >> -- >> Richard Gaskin >> Fourth World Systems >> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web >> ____________________________________________________________________ >> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bonnmike at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 15:08:21 2015 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 13:08:21 -0600 Subject: How to minimize delay when playing an audio clip In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Nevermind. Can't make it work. Setting the playloudness works globally, whether sounds are currently active or not, but setting audioclip loudness only works while the clip is NOT playing. Player object, here I come. Sorry for talking to myself here. Back down the rabbit hole. On Sat, Aug 15, 2015 at 12:39 PM, Mike Bonner wrote: > DOH. NEvermind. Use the ID of the clip. Reading the dictionary. A useful > skill I need to develop > > On Sat, Aug 15, 2015 at 12:37 PM, Mike Bonner wrote: > >> Found a method that works with audioclips, as long as I only need to play >> 1. Rather than starting and stopping it, I set the playloudness to 0 or >> 100 and just leave it looping. (it doesn't appear that the playloudness can >> be set for individual clips.) >> >> Will try with players instead since using only 1 sound effect is a bit >> unrealistic. >> >> Thanks! >> >> On Sat, Aug 15, 2015 at 11:52 AM, Mike Bonner wrote: >> >>> I have an audio clip that I'm using as a sound effect. I try to trigger >>> the play start FIRST in my game loop, but no matter what methods I try >>> (even breaking it out of the game loop itself) there is a pretty hefty lag >>> time before it starts playing. Enough so that its possible to have an >>> event happen, and stop the play of the clip before it ever starts. >>> >>> I don't think i'm having issues with a bound cpu, I think 'play >>> audioclip "myclip" looping' is just that slow. If I hold the key down, it >>> works fine, animation keeps up, and stop is pretty much instantaneous. Is >>> there a way to get this working better? I'll try with an actual player >>> next, but I thought having the clip as part of the stack would provide the >>> best results. >>> >>> >>> Also, a quick question.. I assume there is no way to modify the tone of >>> a clip on the fly? IE: Simulate doppler shift.. >>> >> >> > From dochawk at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 15:25:41 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 12:25:41 -0700 Subject: mouse pointer hot spot is way off In-Reply-To: <773CF469-E47B-428B-A8E6-BC70937BDAF6@hyperactivesw.com> References: <93B3AE25-AC20-4998-A7BF-A935E6B636BD@swcp.com> <773CF469-E47B-428B-A8E6-BC70937BDAF6@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Aug 15, 2015 at 8:58 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > I haven't seen it yet. Are those who have seen it using a third-party > mouse? I usually see it on the internal trackpad of a macbook retina -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Sat Aug 15 15:45:16 2015 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 21:45:16 +0200 Subject: Bug getting group name, plse check In-Reply-To: <8F1224DA-0F8F-486A-AB82-204059790B3E@earthednet.org> References: <125DBD5C-E7C6-4096-B010-4ABF511C7B1B@earthednet.org> <55CE87C8.1040806@fourthworld.com> <1557E0F3-ECA2-41C5-B3F9-DF8D9C38A3AC@earthednet.org> <8F1224DA-0F8F-486A-AB82-204059790B3E@earthednet.org> Message-ID: <55CF96CC.5060306@economy-x-talk.com> Hi Bill, If you can send me a list of words and connected issues that you would like to be able to search for in the index, I'll consider adding them in the book I'm currently writing or in any future publications. -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer KvK: 50277553 Installer Maker for LiveCode: http://qery.us/468 Buy my new book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner" http://qery.us/3fi LiveCode on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/runrev/ On 8/15/2015 21:15, William Prothero wrote: > Richard: > This is an example of how difficult it can be to find docs on an operation that isn?t commonly used and that doesn?t have ?obvious? syntax. Even the livecode books by Mark Schonewill and Colin don?t allow for finding this kind of information, especially in the index. If the contents of these books wer electronically searchable, that might help a lot, because there is a lot of information buried in the text that isn?t quickly find-able. > > Perhaps if there was a dictionary based, not on livecode commands, but on operations that the user wants to perform, with great search, it would be helpful. > > Then again, this list is a great source of this kind of info too. > > Best, > Bill > >> On Aug 15, 2015, at 9:34 AM, William Prothero wrote: >> >> Richard: >> Hmm?. Thought I tried that. But, I tried it again and it worked. Thanks for the info. >> put the short name of the owner of me into tGroup ?works fine. >> Best, >> Bill >> >>> On Aug 14, 2015, at 5:28 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: >>> >>> William Prothero wrote: >>> >>>> ?the long name of me? is a complete reference to an object, which >>>> contains the group name. What I was trying to do is get the name of >>>> the group that the button is in. I can parse it from the long name of >>>> me, but thought it would pull it out of ?me?. >>>> >>>> Anyway, what do I know? If I?m wrong to expect this, then I won?t >>>> report it as a bug (of course). >>> >>> LiveCode does so many things for us so well that it's easy to overestimate its intelligence. >>> >>> When you write: >>> >>> put the short name of grp me into tGroup >>> >>> ...what it sees is: >>> >>> put the short name of grp (me) into tGroup >>> >>> ...which becomes evaluated as: >>> >>> put the short name of grp (button id 1033 of group id 1035 of card id 1011 of stack "Some/Path/To/Stackfile.livecode") into tGroup >>> >>> ..which causes the engine to have a minor breakdown trying to figure that out. :) >>> >>> It would be nice if we could write: >>> >>> put the short name of my grp into tGroup >>> >>> While we don't currently have "my " (however cool that might be) we do have a more generic form, the owner: >>> >>> put the short name of the owner of me into tGroup >>> >>> -- >>> Richard Gaskin >>> Fourth World Systems >>> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web >>> ____________________________________________________________________ >>> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From mkoob at rogers.com Sat Aug 15 15:45:34 2015 From: mkoob at rogers.com (Martin Koob) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 12:45:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Button does not receive mouseUP after disabling then enabling button Message-ID: <1439667934343-4695119.post@n4.nabble.com> I have a button that when the user clicks it it needs to be disabled till a process that the mouseUp started is done then it is re-enabled once the process is done and the user should be able to click it again. The problem I am encountering is that once the button is re-enabled if the mouse has not moved within the button after the mouse was re-enabled the mouseUp is not received by the button script. If you move the mouse before clicking then the button script will receive the mouseUp. If you click the button without moving after it was reenabled then click again the mouseUp from the second click will be received. You can replicate this by following these steps. 1. put the following script in a button. on mouseUp setState "off" send "setState on" to me in 3 seconds end mouseUp on setState pState lock screen if pState is "on" then enable me set the name of me to "on" else disable me set the name of me to "off" end if unlock screen end setState 2. click the button but don't move the mouse pointer after that. (not moving pointer works best with clicking on trackpad) ->the button will be disabled then enabled in 3 seconds. 3. click the button a second time ->nothing happens. 4. click the button a third time ->the mouseUp is received this time If in step 2 you move the mouse within the button after it is enabled before clicking it the mouseUp will be received. It seems by disabling and reenabling the mouseButton LC loses track of where the mouse pointer is so the button does not receive the click. Is there a way to remind the button that the mouse is over it without physically moving the mouse? I tried locking the screen or sending mouseMove messages to the button once it is enabled but that does not work. Is this a known issue? Should I post a bug report? I am using LC 6.7.3. Martin Koob -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Button-does-not-receive-mouseUP-after-disabling-then-enabling-button-tp4695119.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat Aug 15 16:04:20 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 15:04:20 -0500 Subject: mouse pointer hot spot is way off In-Reply-To: References: <93B3AE25-AC20-4998-A7BF-A935E6B636BD@swcp.com> <773CF469-E47B-428B-A8E6-BC70937BDAF6@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <55CF9B44.9030702@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/15/2015 2:25 PM, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > On Sat, Aug 15, 2015 at 8:58 AM, J. Landman Gay > wrote: > >> I haven't seen it yet. Are those who have seen it using a third-party >> mouse? > > > I usually see it on the internal trackpad of a macbook retina That might be a clue. Retina screens have a different resolution. Maybe the engine's calcs are off. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From bonnmike at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 16:09:50 2015 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 14:09:50 -0600 Subject: Button does not receive mouseUP after disabling then enabling button In-Reply-To: <1439667934343-4695119.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1439667934343-4695119.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: Cant duplicate it (on 6.7.4,don't have 6.7.3) windows 10. Its working as expected for me. On Sat, Aug 15, 2015 at 1:45 PM, Martin Koob wrote: > I have a button that when the user clicks it it needs to be disabled till a > process that the mouseUp started is done then it is re-enabled once the > process is done and the user should be able to click it again. > > The problem I am encountering is that once the button is re-enabled if the > mouse has not moved within the button after the mouse was re-enabled the > mouseUp is not received by the button script. > > If you move the mouse before clicking then the button script will receive > the mouseUp. > If you click the button without moving after it was reenabled then click > again the mouseUp from the second click will be received. > > You can replicate this by following these steps. > > 1. put the following script in a button. > > on mouseUp > setState "off" > send "setState on" to me in 3 seconds > end mouseUp > > on setState pState > lock screen > if pState is "on" then > enable me > set the name of me to "on" > else > disable me > set the name of me to "off" > end if > unlock screen > end setState > > 2. click the button but don't move the mouse pointer after that. (not > moving > pointer works best with clicking on trackpad) > ->the button will be disabled then enabled in 3 seconds. > 3. click the button a second time > ->nothing happens. > 4. click the button a third time > ->the mouseUp is received this time > > If in step 2 you move the mouse within the button after it is enabled > before > clicking it the mouseUp will be received. > > It seems by disabling and reenabling the mouseButton LC loses track of > where > the mouse pointer is so the button does not receive the click. Is there a > way to remind the button that the mouse is over it without physically > moving > the mouse? I tried locking the screen or sending mouseMove messages to > the > button once it is enabled but that does not work. > > Is this a known issue? Should I post a bug report? I am using LC 6.7.3. > > Martin Koob > > > > > > > > -- > View this message in context: > http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Button-does-not-receive-mouseUP-after-disabling-then-enabling-button-tp4695119.html > Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From colinholgate at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 16:18:17 2015 From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 16:18:17 -0400 Subject: mouse pointer hot spot is way off In-Reply-To: <55CF9B44.9030702@hyperactivesw.com> References: <93B3AE25-AC20-4998-A7BF-A935E6B636BD@swcp.com> <773CF469-E47B-428B-A8E6-BC70937BDAF6@hyperactivesw.com> <55CF9B44.9030702@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <66D64B96-9F0B-4E41-A0C3-DB4EB61E6B10@gmail.com> A quick test here looks ok, just as precise on my internal Retina screen and my external non-Retina monitor. One thing you could try is to Get Info on LiveCode, and check the box that says Open in Low Resolution. See if that changes anything. > On Aug 15, 2015, at 4:04 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > > On 8/15/2015 2:25 PM, Dr. Hawkins wrote: >> On Sat, Aug 15, 2015 at 8:58 AM, J. Landman Gay >> wrote: >> >>> I haven't seen it yet. Are those who have seen it using a third-party >>> mouse? >> >> >> I usually see it on the internal trackpad of a macbook retina > > That might be a clue. Retina screens have a different resolution. Maybe the engine's calcs are off. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mkoob at rogers.com Sat Aug 15 16:15:08 2015 From: mkoob at rogers.com (Martin Koob) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 13:15:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Button does not receive mouseUP after disabling then enabling button In-Reply-To: References: <1439667934343-4695119.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <1439669708234-4695123.post@n4.nabble.com> Hi Mike Thanks for checking this. I should have added I am working on a Mac, OS X 10.8.5. maybe it is a Mac thing. Martin -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Button-does-not-receive-mouseUP-after-disabling-then-enabling-button-tp4695119p4695123.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From iowahengst at mac.com Sat Aug 15 16:18:53 2015 From: iowahengst at mac.com (Randy Hengst) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 15:18:53 -0500 Subject: Button does not receive mouseUP after disabling then enabling button In-Reply-To: References: <1439667934343-4695119.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <961327AD-6216-46E5-A739-E8DFB2B0ECE6@mac.com> Martin, I?m using LC 6.7.5 on Mac OSX 10.2 and can duplicate your observations. A couple other things? if at your step 3 you use an command>option>click on the button (to see the script) it shows the script of the card. And if you change your button script to this? it works fine. on mouseUp setState "off" wait 3 seconds with messages setState "on" end mouseUp be well, randy Randy Hengst www.classroomFocusedSoftware.com > On Aug 15, 2015, at 3:09 PM, Mike Bonner wrote: > > Cant duplicate it (on 6.7.4,don't have 6.7.3) windows 10. Its working as > expected for me. > > On Sat, Aug 15, 2015 at 1:45 PM, Martin Koob wrote: > >> I have a button that when the user clicks it it needs to be disabled till a >> process that the mouseUp started is done then it is re-enabled once the >> process is done and the user should be able to click it again. >> >> The problem I am encountering is that once the button is re-enabled if the >> mouse has not moved within the button after the mouse was re-enabled the >> mouseUp is not received by the button script. >> >> If you move the mouse before clicking then the button script will receive >> the mouseUp. >> If you click the button without moving after it was reenabled then click >> again the mouseUp from the second click will be received. >> >> You can replicate this by following these steps. >> >> 1. put the following script in a button. >> >> on mouseUp >> setState "off" >> send "setState on" to me in 3 seconds >> end mouseUp >> >> on setState pState >> lock screen >> if pState is "on" then >> enable me >> set the name of me to "on" >> else >> disable me >> set the name of me to "off" >> end if >> unlock screen >> end setState >> >> 2. click the button but don't move the mouse pointer after that. (not >> moving >> pointer works best with clicking on trackpad) >> ->the button will be disabled then enabled in 3 seconds. >> 3. click the button a second time >> ->nothing happens. >> 4. click the button a third time >> ->the mouseUp is received this time >> >> If in step 2 you move the mouse within the button after it is enabled >> before >> clicking it the mouseUp will be received. >> >> It seems by disabling and reenabling the mouseButton LC loses track of >> where >> the mouse pointer is so the button does not receive the click. Is there a >> way to remind the button that the mouse is over it without physically >> moving >> the mouse? I tried locking the screen or sending mouseMove messages to >> the >> button once it is enabled but that does not work. >> >> Is this a known issue? Should I post a bug report? I am using LC 6.7.3. >> >> Martin Koob >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> View this message in context: >> http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Button-does-not-receive-mouseUP-after-disabling-then-enabling-button-tp4695119.html >> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From peter.brett at livecode.com Sat Aug 15 16:29:16 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 21:29:16 +0100 Subject: mySQL: PHP or direct =?UTF-8?Q?access=3F?= In-Reply-To: References: <55CE39F4.4010004@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On 2015-08-15 18:30, Peter Haworth wrote: > Excellent, thank you Peter. Had not had a chance to look at the > release > notes for those two versions yet. It doesn't look like the referenced > bug > report 14289 has been updated to reflect this. > > Couple of follow up questions. > > Has the sqlite user authentication module been enabled in this version > of > the library? Details are at > http://www.sqlite.org/src/doc/trunk/ext/userauth/user-auth.txt. There > are > some new sqlite APIs involved with this which I believe would require > corresponding new LC database functions. > > Can you comment on my request to allow LC users to dynamically load an > sqlite library of their choice? It seems that capability would relieve > the > team from having to keep up to date with the SQLite library, except of > course in situations where the LC interface to the sqlite library > requires > a change. I can't answer any of those questions -- you're best off posting them to the relevant bug report(s). There's no reason you can't simply compile your own copy of the revdb extension to your exact requirements, however. It should be possible for a custom version to be a direct, drop-in replacement. All the source code etc. is there. Peter -- Dr Peter Brett From peter.brett at livecode.com Sat Aug 15 16:32:32 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 21:32:32 +0100 Subject: text files as stacks In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7a128edaefd4a2b9b0cf1d71442757f1@livecode.com> On 2015-08-15 19:34, Mike Bonner wrote: > Could someone point me towards information on using text files as > stacks? > Specifically structure requirements? > > I suck at getting useful info from the forum search. https://www.mail-archive.com/use-livecode at lists.runrev.com/msg61558.html Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Engine Development Team From bonnmike at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 16:32:41 2015 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 14:32:41 -0600 Subject: Button does not receive mouseUP after disabling then enabling button In-Reply-To: <961327AD-6216-46E5-A739-E8DFB2B0ECE6@mac.com> References: <1439667934343-4695119.post@n4.nabble.com> <961327AD-6216-46E5-A739-E8DFB2B0ECE6@mac.com> Message-ID: Another way that might work. Is this safe, or are there cases where it will restart the handler before "doSomething" completes? on mouseUp disable me send "doSomething" to me -- should wait till "doSomething" finishes enable me end mouseUp command doSomething wait 3 seconds with messages -- waits till this completes even with "messages" end doSomething On Sat, Aug 15, 2015 at 2:18 PM, Randy Hengst wrote: > Martin, > > I?m using LC 6.7.5 on Mac OSX 10.2 and can duplicate your observations. > > A couple other things? if at your step 3 you use an command>option>click > on the button (to see the script) it shows the script of the card. > > And if you change your button script to this? it works fine. > > on mouseUp > setState "off" > wait 3 seconds with messages > setState "on" > end mouseUp > > be well, > randy > > Randy Hengst > www.classroomFocusedSoftware.com > > > > On Aug 15, 2015, at 3:09 PM, Mike Bonner wrote: > > > > Cant duplicate it (on 6.7.4,don't have 6.7.3) windows 10. Its working as > > expected for me. > > > > On Sat, Aug 15, 2015 at 1:45 PM, Martin Koob wrote: > > > >> I have a button that when the user clicks it it needs to be disabled > till a > >> process that the mouseUp started is done then it is re-enabled once the > >> process is done and the user should be able to click it again. > >> > >> The problem I am encountering is that once the button is re-enabled if > the > >> mouse has not moved within the button after the mouse was re-enabled the > >> mouseUp is not received by the button script. > >> > >> If you move the mouse before clicking then the button script will > receive > >> the mouseUp. > >> If you click the button without moving after it was reenabled then click > >> again the mouseUp from the second click will be received. > >> > >> You can replicate this by following these steps. > >> > >> 1. put the following script in a button. > >> > >> on mouseUp > >> setState "off" > >> send "setState on" to me in 3 seconds > >> end mouseUp > >> > >> on setState pState > >> lock screen > >> if pState is "on" then > >> enable me > >> set the name of me to "on" > >> else > >> disable me > >> set the name of me to "off" > >> end if > >> unlock screen > >> end setState > >> > >> 2. click the button but don't move the mouse pointer after that. (not > >> moving > >> pointer works best with clicking on trackpad) > >> ->the button will be disabled then enabled in 3 seconds. > >> 3. click the button a second time > >> ->nothing happens. > >> 4. click the button a third time > >> ->the mouseUp is received this time > >> > >> If in step 2 you move the mouse within the button after it is enabled > >> before > >> clicking it the mouseUp will be received. > >> > >> It seems by disabling and reenabling the mouseButton LC loses track of > >> where > >> the mouse pointer is so the button does not receive the click. Is > there a > >> way to remind the button that the mouse is over it without physically > >> moving > >> the mouse? I tried locking the screen or sending mouseMove messages to > >> the > >> button once it is enabled but that does not work. > >> > >> Is this a known issue? Should I post a bug report? I am using LC > 6.7.3. > >> > >> Martin Koob > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> View this message in context: > >> > http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Button-does-not-receive-mouseUP-after-disabling-then-enabling-button-tp4695119.html > >> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From dsc at swcp.com Sat Aug 15 16:33:05 2015 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 14:33:05 -0600 Subject: mouse pointer hot spot is way off In-Reply-To: <55CF8574.4010502@hyperactivesw.com> References: <93B3AE25-AC20-4998-A7BF-A935E6B636BD@swcp.com> <773CF469-E47B-428B-A8E6-BC70937BDAF6@hyperactivesw.com> <2233699C-16C7-45BB-A5C2-92E6C023D3A6@swcp.com> <55CF8574.4010502@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <3266E65C-D4F8-4126-9D9E-A48FAA57C470@swcp.com> I have a stack that?s doing it. The mouseLoc is like 1, 2, essentially 0,0, in that corner. For the editor I get something like 27,-9 (menu?), but I?m not currently having trouble with the editor. In the stack that has trouble, I have to click well below an option menu, but I select normally within its menu. > On Aug 15, 2015, at 12:31 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > > In addition to the tests that Mike suggested, it would be interesting to see what you get back if you ask for the mouseloc in the message box when you see the problem. Put the cursor up near the 0,0 point of the editor so you have a visual reference. > > I do like the term "Gatsby bug." :) > > > On 8/15/2015 11:39 AM, Dar Scott wrote: >> It doesn?t feel like a 3rd party mouse issue to me, but that is only because the problem is limited to LiveCode stack content. (I have a Macally EcoMouse hooked up at the moment.) >> >> This occurs in the content of some LiveCode windows. I don?t think I?ve ever seen it outside of that. It most often shows up in the editor, but I?ve seen it in a stack I?m creating. Such a stack might have buttons, fields and option menus on it. >> >> It doesn?t feel like an IDE thing to me, but I hope it is. That is, I don?t want to see this in a standalone. Maybe the IDE sometimes uses or modifies a cursor image? >> >> I?m not now working on cursors or image hotspots or Windows menus or anything like that, so I don?t think it is my code that is doing anything. >> >> This happened on Mavericks and then on the same machine upgraded to Yosemite. >> >> I am not sure, but I think one time i had to restart OS X. I have trouble believing that. However it might be a Gatsby Bug, involving both LiveCode and OS X. (I made up that term. In The Great Gatsby, a lady says accidents occur when two bad drivers enter the same intersection.) >> >> Dar >> >> >> >>> On Aug 15, 2015, at 9:58 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote: >>> >>> On August 15, 2015 9:58:45 AM CDT, "Dr. Hawkins" wrote: >>>> On Sat, Aug 15, 2015 at 7:37 AM, Dar Scott wrote: >>>> >>>>> Very often the hot spot is off, usually about 50-100 pixels high, for >>>> one >>>>> or more windows in the IDE. I usually notice it in the editor where >>>> it is >>>>> off by 3 lines. Almost always it is just vertical. >>>>> >>>> >>>> I see this on a regular basis in 7. >>> >>> I haven't seen it yet. Are those who have seen it using a third-party mouse? >>> -- >>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > From bonnmike at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 16:33:20 2015 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 14:33:20 -0600 Subject: text files as stacks In-Reply-To: <7a128edaefd4a2b9b0cf1d71442757f1@livecode.com> References: <7a128edaefd4a2b9b0cf1d71442757f1@livecode.com> Message-ID: Thanks! On Sat, Aug 15, 2015 at 2:32 PM, Peter TB Brett wrote: > On 2015-08-15 19:34, Mike Bonner wrote: > >> Could someone point me towards information on using text files as stacks? >> Specifically structure requirements? >> >> I suck at getting useful info from the forum search. >> > > https://www.mail-archive.com/use-livecode at lists.runrev.com/msg61558.html > > Peter > > -- > Dr Peter Brett > LiveCode Engine Development Team > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From simon at asato-media.com Sat Aug 15 16:30:21 2015 From: simon at asato-media.com (Simon) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 13:30:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: How to minimize delay when playing an audio clip In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1439670621209-4695130.post@n4.nabble.com> Hi Mike, In a Pong game I made I dumped .mp3 directly into global variables. Then "play gBatCollision" I had no delay problems. But if your audio clip is very long you might not want to do this. Simon -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/How-to-minimize-delay-when-playing-an-audio-clip-tp4695109p4695130.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From mkoob at rogers.com Sat Aug 15 16:34:44 2015 From: mkoob at rogers.com (Martin Koob) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 13:34:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Button does not receive mouseUP after disabling then enabling button In-Reply-To: <961327AD-6216-46E5-A739-E8DFB2B0ECE6@mac.com> References: <1439667934343-4695119.post@n4.nabble.com> <961327AD-6216-46E5-A739-E8DFB2B0ECE6@mac.com> Message-ID: <1439670884093-4695131.post@n4.nabble.com> Hi Randy Your suggestion resolves the issue with my sample script but trying adding the wait with messages in my application does not resolve the issue. I tried the command>option>click in my application and it opens the card script as well so it appears that the button still appears disabled till the mouse moves. Do you think this is a bug to be reported? Martin -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Button-does-not-receive-mouseUP-after-disabling-then-enabling-button-tp4695119p4695131.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From dsc at swcp.com Sat Aug 15 16:44:24 2015 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 14:44:24 -0600 Subject: mouse pointer hot spot is way off In-Reply-To: <66D64B96-9F0B-4E41-A0C3-DB4EB61E6B10@gmail.com> References: <93B3AE25-AC20-4998-A7BF-A935E6B636BD@swcp.com> <773CF469-E47B-428B-A8E6-BC70937BDAF6@hyperactivesw.com> <55CF9B44.9030702@hyperactivesw.com> <66D64B96-9F0B-4E41-A0C3-DB4EB61E6B10@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2E30FA3F-BBA3-4075-A179-7D8B696ED77A@swcp.com> I don?t have the retina for Retina. My Mac?s don?t have it. So, in my case, that is not a factor. I tried to make a mouseMove test. Unfortunately, I did something that fixed it. I?m not sure, but I think the first mouseMove message fixed it. But, it could have been random or the recompiling something or? I very much appreciate all the help. > On Aug 15, 2015, at 2:18 PM, Colin Holgate wrote: > > A quick test here looks ok, just as precise on my internal Retina screen and my external non-Retina monitor. > > One thing you could try is to Get Info on LiveCode, and check the box that says Open in Low Resolution. See if that changes anything. > > >> On Aug 15, 2015, at 4:04 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: >> >> On 8/15/2015 2:25 PM, Dr. Hawkins wrote: >>> On Sat, Aug 15, 2015 at 8:58 AM, J. Landman Gay >>> wrote: >>> >>>> I haven't seen it yet. Are those who have seen it using a third-party >>>> mouse? >>> >>> >>> I usually see it on the internal trackpad of a macbook retina >> >> That might be a clue. Retina screens have a different resolution. Maybe the engine's calcs are off. >> >> -- >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From mkoob at rogers.com Sat Aug 15 16:44:49 2015 From: mkoob at rogers.com (Martin Koob) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 13:44:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Button does not receive mouseUP after disabling then enabling button In-Reply-To: References: <1439667934343-4695119.post@n4.nabble.com> <961327AD-6216-46E5-A739-E8DFB2B0ECE6@mac.com> Message-ID: <1439671489534-4695133.post@n4.nabble.com> Hi Randy I put the send "set state on" to me in 3 seconds in order to replicate what was happening in my application in a simple stack to see if the issue would happen with simple commands in one button and it did. What actually happens in the application is that a command is sent then a callback is received. Before the process command is called I set the state to off. Once the callback is received I can set the state back to on. on mouseUp setState "off" startMyProcess end mouseUp on MyProcessCompletedCallback setState "on" end MyProcessCompletedCallback on setState pState lock screen if pState is "on" then enable me set the name of me to "on" else disable me set the name of me to "off" end if unlock screen end setState I am trying wait with messages at various points in my application script but it does not resolve it in this case. Martin -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Button-does-not-receive-mouseUP-after-disabling-then-enabling-button-tp4695119p4695133.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From peter.brett at livecode.com Sat Aug 15 16:51:04 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 21:51:04 +0100 Subject: Button does not receive mouseUP after disabling then enabling button In-Reply-To: <1439667934343-4695119.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1439667934343-4695119.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <820c95067e219db270f07c82d0be1bc0@livecode.com> On 2015-08-15 20:45, Martin Koob wrote: > I have a button that when the user clicks it it needs to be disabled > till a > process that the mouseUp started is done then it is re-enabled once the > process is done and the user should be able to click it again. > > The problem I am encountering is that once the button is re-enabled if > the > mouse has not moved within the button after the mouse was re-enabled > the > mouseUp is not received by the button script. > > [snip] > > Is this a known issue? Should I post a bug report? I am using LC > 6.7.3. Hi Martin, I just tried this out on Linux using LiveCode 7.1-rc-1, and I can't observe the bug. So, it might be platform-specific. - Do you get the problem in LiveCode 7? - What platform are you on? Since you can reproduce the bug quite reliably it's definitely worth filing a bug report. Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Engine Development Team From iowahengst at mac.com Sat Aug 15 16:58:12 2015 From: iowahengst at mac.com (Randy Hengst) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 15:58:12 -0500 Subject: Button does not receive mouseUP after disabling then enabling button In-Reply-To: <1439671489534-4695133.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1439667934343-4695119.post@n4.nabble.com> <961327AD-6216-46E5-A739-E8DFB2B0ECE6@mac.com> <1439671489534-4695133.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <7E5A59DB-0B01-4CE1-B382-4FEA77DB1E5F@mac.com> Will it work for now if you disable target at the beginning of your startMyProcess script and enable it at the end of that script? be well, randy Randy Hengst www.classroomFocusedSoftware.com > On Aug 15, 2015, at 3:44 PM, Martin Koob wrote: > > Hi Randy > > I put the send "set state on" to me in 3 seconds in order to replicate what > was happening in my application in a simple stack to see if the issue would > happen with simple commands in one button and it did. > > What actually happens in the application is that a command is sent then a > callback is received. Before the process command is called I set the state > to off. Once the callback is received I can set the state back to on. > > > on mouseUp > setState "off" > startMyProcess > end mouseUp > > on MyProcessCompletedCallback > setState "on" > end MyProcessCompletedCallback > > on setState pState > lock screen > if pState is "on" then > enable me > set the name of me to "on" > else > disable me > set the name of me to "off" > end if > unlock screen > end setState > > I am trying wait with messages at various points in my application script > but it does not resolve it in this case. > > Martin > > > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Button-does-not-receive-mouseUP-after-disabling-then-enabling-button-tp4695119p4695133.html > Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dochawk at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 17:03:07 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 14:03:07 -0700 Subject: mouse pointer hot spot is way off In-Reply-To: <55CF9B44.9030702@hyperactivesw.com> References: <93B3AE25-AC20-4998-A7BF-A935E6B636BD@swcp.com> <773CF469-E47B-428B-A8E6-BC70937BDAF6@hyperactivesw.com> <55CF9B44.9030702@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Aug 15, 2015 at 1:04 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > That might be a clue. Retina screens have a different resolution. Maybe > the engine's calcs are off. > When this bites, the error is a fixed amount. Move the mouse three dots down, and the point it clicks seems to be three down. It also seems to at least usually only be a vertical, and not a horizontal, error. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From bonnmike at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 17:03:18 2015 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 15:03:18 -0600 Subject: How to minimize delay when playing an audio clip In-Reply-To: <1439670621209-4695130.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1439670621209-4695130.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: great idea, thanks. I've clipped the file down to just what I need so its pretty tiny. I'll give it a shot! On Sat, Aug 15, 2015 at 2:30 PM, Simon wrote: > Hi Mike, > In a Pong game I made I dumped .mp3 directly into global variables. Then > "play gBatCollision" > I had no delay problems. > But if your audio clip is very long you might not want to do this. > > Simon > > > > > -- > View this message in context: > http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/How-to-minimize-delay-when-playing-an-audio-clip-tp4695109p4695130.html > Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From mkoob at rogers.com Sat Aug 15 17:01:32 2015 From: mkoob at rogers.com (Martin Koob) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 14:01:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Button does not receive mouseUP after disabling then enabling button In-Reply-To: <820c95067e219db270f07c82d0be1bc0@livecode.com> References: <1439667934343-4695119.post@n4.nabble.com> <820c95067e219db270f07c82d0be1bc0@livecode.com> Message-ID: <1439672492798-4695138.post@n4.nabble.com> Hi Peter Thanks for replying on a Saturday. The platform is Mac OS X 10.8.5 and using LC 6.7.3 I will try it in LC 7 to see if it is there too then post a bug. Martin -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Button-does-not-receive-mouseUP-after-disabling-then-enabling-button-tp4695119p4695138.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From scott at tactilemedia.com Sat Aug 15 17:17:42 2015 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 14:17:42 -0700 Subject: How to minimize delay when playing an audio clip In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: In the past, it used to be that imported audioClips would generally start playing with less lag than players. I haven't done tests with any of the recent versions of LC to see if this holds true (sounds like it doesn't?). In any event, I've never done this, but you might try using an imported video clip with no video track (if that's possible) so it contains your audio only, and use the prepare command, which supposedly allows the imported media to start playing immediately. If you can't make a video-less movie, another option could be to make the video 1 x 1 pixel in size. Even if a videoClip somehow employs a player for playback, the prepare command might reduce the start lag. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design On 8/15/15, 12:08 PM, "Mike Bonner" wrote: >Nevermind. Can't make it work. Setting the playloudness works globally, >whether sounds are currently active or not, but setting audioclip loudness >only works while the clip is NOT playing. Player object, here I come. >Sorry for talking to myself here. Back down the rabbit hole. > >On Sat, Aug 15, 2015 at 12:39 PM, Mike Bonner wrote: > >> DOH. NEvermind. Use the ID of the clip. Reading the dictionary. A >>useful >> skill I need to develop >> >> On Sat, Aug 15, 2015 at 12:37 PM, Mike Bonner >>wrote: >> >>> Found a method that works with audioclips, as long as I only need to >>>play >>> 1. Rather than starting and stopping it, I set the playloudness to 0 >>>or >>> 100 and just leave it looping. (it doesn't appear that the >>>playloudness can >>> be set for individual clips.) >>> >>> Will try with players instead since using only 1 sound effect is a bit >>> unrealistic. >>> >>> Thanks! >>> >>> On Sat, Aug 15, 2015 at 11:52 AM, Mike Bonner >>>wrote: >>> >>>> I have an audio clip that I'm using as a sound effect. I try to >>>>trigger >>>> the play start FIRST in my game loop, but no matter what methods I try >>>> (even breaking it out of the game loop itself) there is a pretty >>>>hefty lag >>>> time before it starts playing. Enough so that its possible to have an >>>> event happen, and stop the play of the clip before it ever starts. >>>> >>>> I don't think i'm having issues with a bound cpu, I think 'play >>>> audioclip "myclip" looping' is just that slow. If I hold the key >>>>down, it >>>> works fine, animation keeps up, and stop is pretty much >>>>instantaneous. Is >>>> there a way to get this working better? I'll try with an actual >>>>player >>>> next, but I thought having the clip as part of the stack would >>>>provide the >>>> best results. >>>> >>>> >>>> Also, a quick question.. I assume there is no way to modify the tone >>>>of >>>> a clip on the fly? IE: Simulate doppler shift.. >>>> >>> >>> >> >_______________________________________________ >use-livecode mailing list >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From monte at sweattechnologies.com Sat Aug 15 17:13:16 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2015 07:13:16 +1000 Subject: Downloaded stacks on iOS In-Reply-To: <8D77F270-5538-46B2-8A5A-C98FC1089C14@gmail.com> References: <55CEA1D9.7060405@hindu.org> <55CEA769.9010501@fourthworld.com> <02FEC1E9-4807-4712-9C93-03BD17EBD46E@sweattechnologies.com> <8D77F270-5538-46B2-8A5A-C98FC1089C14@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1A609F57-6B88-4CF9-99E9-3FC78B862A7D@sweattechnologies.com> > On 15 Aug 2015, at 11:45 pm, Colin Holgate wrote: > > That brings up the possibility of having a non-Javascript stack app loading a browser control with an HTML5 based stack that is online. Yes that would be perfectly fine I think and synonymous with what they are doing. From bonnmike at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 17:38:24 2015 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 15:38:24 -0600 Subject: How to minimize delay when playing an audio clip In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks for the suggestion, 2 things on the list to try now. On Sat, Aug 15, 2015 at 3:17 PM, Scott Rossi wrote: > In the past, it used to be that imported audioClips would generally start > playing with less lag than players. I haven't done tests with any of the > recent versions of LC to see if this holds true (sounds like it doesn't?). > > In any event, I've never done this, but you might try using an imported > video clip with no video track (if that's possible) so it contains your > audio only, and use the prepare command, which supposedly allows the > imported media to start playing immediately. If you can't make a > video-less movie, another option could be to make the video 1 x 1 pixel in > size. > > Even if a videoClip somehow employs a player for playback, the prepare > command might reduce the start lag. > > Regards, > > Scott Rossi > Creative Director > Tactile Media, UX/UI Design > > > > > On 8/15/15, 12:08 PM, "Mike Bonner" wrote: > > >Nevermind. Can't make it work. Setting the playloudness works globally, > >whether sounds are currently active or not, but setting audioclip loudness > >only works while the clip is NOT playing. Player object, here I come. > >Sorry for talking to myself here. Back down the rabbit hole. > > > >On Sat, Aug 15, 2015 at 12:39 PM, Mike Bonner wrote: > > > >> DOH. NEvermind. Use the ID of the clip. Reading the dictionary. A > >>useful > >> skill I need to develop > >> > >> On Sat, Aug 15, 2015 at 12:37 PM, Mike Bonner > >>wrote: > >> > >>> Found a method that works with audioclips, as long as I only need to > >>>play > >>> 1. Rather than starting and stopping it, I set the playloudness to 0 > >>>or > >>> 100 and just leave it looping. (it doesn't appear that the > >>>playloudness can > >>> be set for individual clips.) > >>> > >>> Will try with players instead since using only 1 sound effect is a bit > >>> unrealistic. > >>> > >>> Thanks! > >>> > >>> On Sat, Aug 15, 2015 at 11:52 AM, Mike Bonner > >>>wrote: > >>> > >>>> I have an audio clip that I'm using as a sound effect. I try to > >>>>trigger > >>>> the play start FIRST in my game loop, but no matter what methods I try > >>>> (even breaking it out of the game loop itself) there is a pretty > >>>>hefty lag > >>>> time before it starts playing. Enough so that its possible to have an > >>>> event happen, and stop the play of the clip before it ever starts. > >>>> > >>>> I don't think i'm having issues with a bound cpu, I think 'play > >>>> audioclip "myclip" looping' is just that slow. If I hold the key > >>>>down, it > >>>> works fine, animation keeps up, and stop is pretty much > >>>>instantaneous. Is > >>>> there a way to get this working better? I'll try with an actual > >>>>player > >>>> next, but I thought having the clip as part of the stack would > >>>>provide the > >>>> best results. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Also, a quick question.. I assume there is no way to modify the tone > >>>>of > >>>> a clip on the fly? IE: Simulate doppler shift.. > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >_______________________________________________ > >use-livecode mailing list > >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >subscription preferences: > >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From monte at sweattechnologies.com Sat Aug 15 17:17:36 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2015 07:17:36 +1000 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: References: <55CB9FA1.30607@fourthworld.com> <2BFBCFB7-45E1-4113-9B97-21487C99A53C@m-r-d.de> <55CBAD21.5090305@fourthworld.com> <55CBB39C.40905@fourthworld.com> <2F7CB0D2-6DE0-4918-BAD3-DA1149C5DA2E@sweattechnologies.com> <55CBD269.6010407@fourthworld.com> <4C8CDE15-C200-4EA8-9B59-159858F53670@sweattechnologies.com> <1439564957521-4695027.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: > On 16 Aug 2015, at 1:16 am, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > > Along with their customPropertySet, there could be a "vcsIgnoresSet", or a > group of properties of vcsIgnoresPosition, vcsIgnoresHilite, > vcsIgnoresText, vcsIgnoresVis, vcsIgnoresSize. There could be a vcsIgnore > checkbook on custom properties This is one of the curly issues. I personally can?t imagine the tedium of having to set a default property for half the properties of every object. My solution is to dispatch a message to each object so that it can sort itself out for saving. Stacks can resize themselves causing resizeStack handlers to trigger etc.. however, this does introduce a workflow issue which I then resolved by doing the VCS export from a command lime app that is run whenever the stackFile is saved. It works relatively well and as it?s asynchronous there?s no waiting around for the save. From mkoob at rogers.com Sat Aug 15 17:53:51 2015 From: mkoob at rogers.com (Martin Koob) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 14:53:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Button does not receive mouseUP after disabling then enabling button In-Reply-To: <1439671489534-4695133.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1439667934343-4695119.post@n4.nabble.com> <961327AD-6216-46E5-A739-E8DFB2B0ECE6@mac.com> <1439671489534-4695133.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <1439675631031-4695143.post@n4.nabble.com> Hi I found another way to resolve it that works in the sample stack and in my application. Reading about the wait command in the dictionary I saw you can also use send in time to give LiveCode a chance to process messages. If I use send in time for both "setState off" and "setState on" then I can click the button when it is re-enabled. Here is the workaround script for the sample button. on mouseUp send "setState off" to me in 10 milliseconds send "setState on" to me in 3 seconds end mouseUp on setState pState lock screen if pState is "on" then enable me set the name of me to "on" else disable me set the name of me to "off" end if unlock screen end setState It seems that sending in time for the first "setState off" message is what resolves the issue. You can just call setState "on" instead of sending and it works too. on mouseUp send "setState off" to me in 10 milliseconds myprocess setState "on" end mouseUp on setState pState lock screen if pState is "on" then enable me set the name of me to "on" else disable me set the name of me to "off" end if unlock screen end setState on myprocess wait 3 seconds with messages end my process Thanks for all the help. I will post a bug report. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Button-does-not-receive-mouseUP-after-disabling-then-enabling-button-tp4695119p4695143.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From dsc at swcp.com Sat Aug 15 18:01:37 2015 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 16:01:37 -0600 Subject: mouse pointer hot spot is way off In-Reply-To: <3266E65C-D4F8-4126-9D9E-A48FAA57C470@swcp.com> References: <93B3AE25-AC20-4998-A7BF-A935E6B636BD@swcp.com> <773CF469-E47B-428B-A8E6-BC70937BDAF6@hyperactivesw.com> <2233699C-16C7-45BB-A5C2-92E6C023D3A6@swcp.com> <55CF8574.4010502@hyperactivesw.com> <3266E65C-D4F8-4126-9D9E-A48FAA57C470@swcp.com> Message-ID: <62B3F105-6EA0-4ED8-B3C1-0977104429FD@swcp.com> Now the editor is acting up and I?m getting about 8, -61 in that corner. My situation is the same as Richards. It is a fixed vertical offset throughout the time of misbehavior, but I?m not sure whether that fixed amount changes a little from episode to episode or from stack to stack. For me it is per stack (maybe per card). Right now my stack is fine, but the editor stack is goofy. The offset is 2 lines (about) and I think it was 3 lines earlier today. > On Aug 15, 2015, at 2:33 PM, Dar Scott wrote: > > I have a stack that?s doing it. The mouseLoc is like 1, 2, essentially 0,0, in that corner. For the editor I get something like 27,-9 (menu?), but I?m not currently having trouble with the editor. > > In the stack that has trouble, I have to click well below an option menu, but I select normally within its menu. > > >> On Aug 15, 2015, at 12:31 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: >> >> In addition to the tests that Mike suggested, it would be interesting to see what you get back if you ask for the mouseloc in the message box when you see the problem. Put the cursor up near the 0,0 point of the editor so you have a visual reference. >> >> I do like the term "Gatsby bug." :) >> >> >> On 8/15/2015 11:39 AM, Dar Scott wrote: >>> It doesn?t feel like a 3rd party mouse issue to me, but that is only because the problem is limited to LiveCode stack content. (I have a Macally EcoMouse hooked up at the moment.) >>> >>> This occurs in the content of some LiveCode windows. I don?t think I?ve ever seen it outside of that. It most often shows up in the editor, but I?ve seen it in a stack I?m creating. Such a stack might have buttons, fields and option menus on it. >>> >>> It doesn?t feel like an IDE thing to me, but I hope it is. That is, I don?t want to see this in a standalone. Maybe the IDE sometimes uses or modifies a cursor image? >>> >>> I?m not now working on cursors or image hotspots or Windows menus or anything like that, so I don?t think it is my code that is doing anything. >>> >>> This happened on Mavericks and then on the same machine upgraded to Yosemite. >>> >>> I am not sure, but I think one time i had to restart OS X. I have trouble believing that. However it might be a Gatsby Bug, involving both LiveCode and OS X. (I made up that term. In The Great Gatsby, a lady says accidents occur when two bad drivers enter the same intersection.) >>> >>> Dar >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Aug 15, 2015, at 9:58 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote: >>>> >>>> On August 15, 2015 9:58:45 AM CDT, "Dr. Hawkins" wrote: >>>>> On Sat, Aug 15, 2015 at 7:37 AM, Dar Scott wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Very often the hot spot is off, usually about 50-100 pixels high, for >>>>> one >>>>>> or more windows in the IDE. I usually notice it in the editor where >>>>> it is >>>>>> off by 3 lines. Almost always it is just vertical. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I see this on a regular basis in 7. >>>> >>>> I haven't seen it yet. Are those who have seen it using a third-party mouse? >>>> -- >>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >>>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> >> -- >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > From dsc at swcp.com Sat Aug 15 18:12:55 2015 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 16:12:55 -0600 Subject: mouse pointer hot spot is way off In-Reply-To: References: <93B3AE25-AC20-4998-A7BF-A935E6B636BD@swcp.com> <773CF469-E47B-428B-A8E6-BC70937BDAF6@hyperactivesw.com> <2233699C-16C7-45BB-A5C2-92E6C023D3A6@swcp.com> Message-ID: I think I tried what you said. And afterward things are better. In the message box I put set the cursor to watch then set the cursor to arrow I went back to the editor and it was working right. Maybe I did something else, so I?ll have to see if this routine keeps working when this comes up. It is easy to become superstitious. Now what I want is a recipe to make this happen so I can report it and run more tests on the workaround. If it is a workaround. Dar > On Aug 15, 2015, at 10:45 AM, Mike Bonner wrote: > > makes me wonder.. There are several ways the cursor can change shape while > in use. I wonder if the ball gets dropped somewhere along the way. I've > seen my cursor get stuck occasionally in the "pane resize" mode, though I > can't reliably reproduce it. When this occurs its nearly always in the > editor. (mainly because the editor has panes to resize?) > > It might not hurt to set the mousecursor to something else, then revert it > to standard and see if the problem resolves. If it does, at least its a > piece of information. (The hotspot for a cursor would change based on > cursor shape, and if the hotspot doesn't update on change for some reason, > that would account for the issue) > > On Sat, Aug 15, 2015 at 10:39 AM, Dar Scott wrote: > >> It doesn?t feel like a 3rd party mouse issue to me, but that is only >> because the problem is limited to LiveCode stack content. (I have a >> Macally EcoMouse hooked up at the moment.) >> >> This occurs in the content of some LiveCode windows. I don?t think I?ve >> ever seen it outside of that. It most often shows up in the editor, but >> I?ve seen it in a stack I?m creating. Such a stack might have buttons, >> fields and option menus on it. >> >> It doesn?t feel like an IDE thing to me, but I hope it is. That is, I >> don?t want to see this in a standalone. Maybe the IDE sometimes uses or >> modifies a cursor image? >> >> I?m not now working on cursors or image hotspots or Windows menus or >> anything like that, so I don?t think it is my code that is doing anything. >> >> This happened on Mavericks and then on the same machine upgraded to >> Yosemite. >> >> I am not sure, but I think one time i had to restart OS X. I have trouble >> believing that. However it might be a Gatsby Bug, involving both LiveCode >> and OS X. (I made up that term. In The Great Gatsby, a lady says >> accidents occur when two bad drivers enter the same intersection.) >> >> Dar >> >> >> >>> On Aug 15, 2015, at 9:58 AM, J. Landman Gay >> wrote: >>> >>> On August 15, 2015 9:58:45 AM CDT, "Dr. Hawkins" >> wrote: >>>> On Sat, Aug 15, 2015 at 7:37 AM, Dar Scott wrote: >>>> >>>>> Very often the hot spot is off, usually about 50-100 pixels high, for >>>> one >>>>> or more windows in the IDE. I usually notice it in the editor where >>>> it is >>>>> off by 3 lines. Almost always it is just vertical. >>>>> >>>> >>>> I see this on a regular basis in 7. >>> >>> I haven't seen it yet. Are those who have seen it using a third-party >> mouse? >>> -- >>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From dsc at swcp.com Sat Aug 15 18:37:28 2015 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 16:37:28 -0600 Subject: mouse pointer hot spot is way off In-Reply-To: References: <93B3AE25-AC20-4998-A7BF-A935E6B636BD@swcp.com> <773CF469-E47B-428B-A8E6-BC70937BDAF6@hyperactivesw.com> <2233699C-16C7-45BB-A5C2-92E6C023D3A6@swcp.com> Message-ID: <4FCB1B7D-599F-4E20-868E-9427EBCA83C8@swcp.com> Didn?t work a when it came up again. I must have done something else. > On Aug 15, 2015, at 4:12 PM, Dar Scott wrote: > > I think I tried what you said. And afterward things are better. > > In the message box I put > set the cursor to watch > then > set the cursor to arrow > > I went back to the editor and it was working right. Maybe I did something else, so I?ll have to see if this routine keeps working when this comes up. It is easy to become superstitious. > > Now what I want is a recipe to make this happen so I can report it and run more tests on the workaround. If it is a workaround. > > Dar > > >> On Aug 15, 2015, at 10:45 AM, Mike Bonner wrote: >> >> makes me wonder.. There are several ways the cursor can change shape while >> in use. I wonder if the ball gets dropped somewhere along the way. I've >> seen my cursor get stuck occasionally in the "pane resize" mode, though I >> can't reliably reproduce it. When this occurs its nearly always in the >> editor. (mainly because the editor has panes to resize?) >> >> It might not hurt to set the mousecursor to something else, then revert it >> to standard and see if the problem resolves. If it does, at least its a >> piece of information. (The hotspot for a cursor would change based on >> cursor shape, and if the hotspot doesn't update on change for some reason, >> that would account for the issue) >> >> On Sat, Aug 15, 2015 at 10:39 AM, Dar Scott wrote: >> >>> It doesn?t feel like a 3rd party mouse issue to me, but that is only >>> because the problem is limited to LiveCode stack content. (I have a >>> Macally EcoMouse hooked up at the moment.) >>> >>> This occurs in the content of some LiveCode windows. I don?t think I?ve >>> ever seen it outside of that. It most often shows up in the editor, but >>> I?ve seen it in a stack I?m creating. Such a stack might have buttons, >>> fields and option menus on it. >>> >>> It doesn?t feel like an IDE thing to me, but I hope it is. That is, I >>> don?t want to see this in a standalone. Maybe the IDE sometimes uses or >>> modifies a cursor image? >>> >>> I?m not now working on cursors or image hotspots or Windows menus or >>> anything like that, so I don?t think it is my code that is doing anything. >>> >>> This happened on Mavericks and then on the same machine upgraded to >>> Yosemite. >>> >>> I am not sure, but I think one time i had to restart OS X. I have trouble >>> believing that. However it might be a Gatsby Bug, involving both LiveCode >>> and OS X. (I made up that term. In The Great Gatsby, a lady says >>> accidents occur when two bad drivers enter the same intersection.) >>> >>> Dar >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Aug 15, 2015, at 9:58 AM, J. Landman Gay >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> On August 15, 2015 9:58:45 AM CDT, "Dr. Hawkins" >>> wrote: >>>>> On Sat, Aug 15, 2015 at 7:37 AM, Dar Scott wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Very often the hot spot is off, usually about 50-100 pixels high, for >>>>> one >>>>>> or more windows in the IDE. I usually notice it in the editor where >>>>> it is >>>>>> off by 3 lines. Almost always it is just vertical. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I see this on a regular basis in 7. >>>> >>>> I haven't seen it yet. Are those who have seen it using a third-party >>> mouse? >>>> -- >>>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >>>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Sat Aug 15 18:38:31 2015 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2015 00:38:31 +0200 Subject: LiveCode meeting Nederland Message-ID: <1AF1500E-BF27-47B4-9AF1-26959C41B828@economy-x-talk.com> Hallo LiveCoders, Over enkele weken zal ik weer een bijeenkomst in Nederland organiseren. Om te peilen hoeveel belangstelling er is en waarin potenti?le deelnemers ge?nteresseerd zijn, heb ik een korte vragenlijst gemaakt. Het invullen van deze vragenlijst duurt maximaal 5 minuten. Je kunt de vragen hier vinden: https://nl.surveymonkey.com/r/8BZTJGJ Hello LiveCoders, In a few weeks, I'll organise another meeting in the Netherlands. To estimate insterest in the meeting, I have created a questionnaire. Please fill out this form, even if you don't live exactly in the Netherlands but are interested in a meeting with other LiveCoders in Europe: https://nl.surveymonkey.com/r/8BZTJGJ -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer KvK: 50277553 Use Color Converter to convert CMYK, RGB, RAL, XYZ, H.Lab and other colour spaces. http://www.color-converter.com We have time for new software development projects. Contact me for a quote. From dochawk at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 18:51:05 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 15:51:05 -0700 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: References: <55CB9FA1.30607@fourthworld.com> <2BFBCFB7-45E1-4113-9B97-21487C99A53C@m-r-d.de> <55CBAD21.5090305@fourthworld.com> <55CBB39C.40905@fourthworld.com> <2F7CB0D2-6DE0-4918-BAD3-DA1149C5DA2E@sweattechnologies.com> <55CBD269.6010407@fourthworld.com> <4C8CDE15-C200-4EA8-9B59-159858F53670@sweattechnologies.com> <1439564957521-4695027.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Aug 15, 2015 at 2:17 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > This is one of the curly issues. I personally can?t imagine the tedium of > having to set a default property for half the properties of every object. > It becomes routine; I'm building forms. I have several button that loop through to set things for every field on the card, for example, unless it meets certain qualifications. I didn't include the vcIgnoreProperites , either. My solution is to dispatch a message to each object so that it can sort > itself out for saving. Stacks can resize themselves causing resizeStack > handlers to trigger etc. > But how would objects know whether or not to do this in less you set properties in them, anyway, or gave them a script? > . however, this does introduce a workflow issue which I then resolved by > doing the VCS export from a command lime app that is run whenever the > stackFile is saved. It works relatively well and as it?s asynchronous > there?s no waiting around for the save. > > I like that ? it takes a long enough to save, anyway. I have message box commands to bump the version of my projects in library, and also a routine that checks to see if the version is changed on the launch dash but it takes a minute or two to run! -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From dochawk at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 18:52:21 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 15:52:21 -0700 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: References: <55CB9FA1.30607@fourthworld.com> <2BFBCFB7-45E1-4113-9B97-21487C99A53C@m-r-d.de> <55CBAD21.5090305@fourthworld.com> <55CBB39C.40905@fourthworld.com> <2F7CB0D2-6DE0-4918-BAD3-DA1149C5DA2E@sweattechnologies.com> <55CBD269.6010407@fourthworld.com> <4C8CDE15-C200-4EA8-9B59-159858F53670@sweattechnologies.com> <1439564957521-4695027.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Aug 15, 2015 at 3:51 PM, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > I didn't include the vcIgnoreProperites , either. > Nor explain it, it seems:-) This would cause all of the "common suspects " to not be included in a revision -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From monte at sweattechnologies.com Sat Aug 15 18:56:01 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2015 08:56:01 +1000 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: References: <55CB9FA1.30607@fourthworld.com> <2BFBCFB7-45E1-4113-9B97-21487C99A53C@m-r-d.de> <55CBAD21.5090305@fourthworld.com> <55CBB39C.40905@fourthworld.com> <2F7CB0D2-6DE0-4918-BAD3-DA1149C5DA2E@sweattechnologies.com> <55CBD269.6010407@fourthworld.com> <4C8CDE15-C200-4EA8-9B59-159858F53670@sweattechnologies.com> <1439564957521-4695027.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <656638C9-5142-4E8D-9A85-612F2182CC41@sweattechnologies.com> > On 16 Aug 2015, at 8:51 am, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > > But how would objects know whether or not to do this in less you set > properties in them, anyway, or gave them a script? You give them a script. In my case you handle the lcVCSExport message if you need to do anything. In practice I usually just handle it at card or stack level and reset anything that needs to be reset. From paul at researchware.com Sat Aug 15 20:00:31 2015 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 20:00:31 -0400 Subject: Button does not receive mouseUP after disabling then enabling button In-Reply-To: <1439667934343-4695119.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1439667934343-4695119.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <55CFD29F.1020408@researchware.com> The issue you are seeing *MAY* be related to a bug I verified and reported last week. See http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15710 Under LC6.7.x or 7.x under OSX version where the "Search" menu item is inserted into Help menu, if you disable the button that is the Help menu and then enable it, all the menu items remain disabled (greyed out in the menu) I say *MAY* only because it is specific to LC 6.7.x and above and only on OSX and involves the disable and enabling of a button. Paul Dupuis Researchware On 8/15/2015 3:45 PM, Martin Koob wrote: > I have a button that when the user clicks it it needs to be disabled till a > process that the mouseUp started is done then it is re-enabled once the > process is done and the user should be able to click it again. > > The problem I am encountering is that once the button is re-enabled if the > mouse has not moved within the button after the mouse was re-enabled the > mouseUp is not received by the button script. > > If you move the mouse before clicking then the button script will receive > the mouseUp. > If you click the button without moving after it was reenabled then click > again the mouseUp from the second click will be received. > > You can replicate this by following these steps. > > 1. put the following script in a button. > > on mouseUp > setState "off" > send "setState on" to me in 3 seconds > end mouseUp > > on setState pState > lock screen > if pState is "on" then > enable me > set the name of me to "on" > else > disable me > set the name of me to "off" > end if > unlock screen > end setState > > 2. click the button but don't move the mouse pointer after that. (not moving > pointer works best with clicking on trackpad) > ->the button will be disabled then enabled in 3 seconds. > 3. click the button a second time > ->nothing happens. > 4. click the button a third time > ->the mouseUp is received this time > > If in step 2 you move the mouse within the button after it is enabled before > clicking it the mouseUp will be received. > > It seems by disabling and reenabling the mouseButton LC loses track of where > the mouse pointer is so the button does not receive the click. Is there a > way to remind the button that the mouse is over it without physically moving > the mouse? I tried locking the screen or sending mouseMove messages to the > button once it is enabled but that does not work. > > Is this a known issue? Should I post a bug report? I am using LC 6.7.3. > > Martin Koob > > > > > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Button-does-not-receive-mouseUP-after-disabling-then-enabling-button-tp4695119.html > Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sat Aug 15 20:25:16 2015 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 20:25:16 -0400 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: <656638C9-5142-4E8D-9A85-612F2182CC41@sweattechnologies.com> References: <55CB9FA1.30607@fourthworld.com> <2BFBCFB7-45E1-4113-9B97-21487C99A53C@m-r-d.de> <55CBAD21.5090305@fourthworld.com> <55CBB39C.40905@fourthworld.com> <2F7CB0D2-6DE0-4918-BAD3-DA1149C5DA2E@sweattechnologies.com> <55CBD269.6010407@fourthworld.com> <4C8CDE15-C200-4EA8-9B59-159858F53670@sweattechnologies.com> <1439564957521-4695027.post@n4.nabble.com> <656638C9-5142-4E8D-9A85-612F2182CC41@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: I'm still trying to grasp the advantage of BAF, since I'm guessing I'm in the target audience. Then, again, maybe not, since I still haven't gotten an email about it from Mildred et al. On Sat, Aug 15, 2015 at 6:56 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > > > On 16 Aug 2015, at 8:51 am, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > > > > But how would objects know whether or not to do this in less you set > > properties in them, anyway, or gave them a script? > > You give them a script. In my case you handle the lcVCSExport message if > you need to do anything. In practice I usually just handle it at card or > stack level and reset anything that needs to be reset. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From dochawk at gmail.com Sat Aug 15 20:37:27 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2015 17:37:27 -0700 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: <656638C9-5142-4E8D-9A85-612F2182CC41@sweattechnologies.com> References: <55CB9FA1.30607@fourthworld.com> <2BFBCFB7-45E1-4113-9B97-21487C99A53C@m-r-d.de> <55CBAD21.5090305@fourthworld.com> <55CBB39C.40905@fourthworld.com> <2F7CB0D2-6DE0-4918-BAD3-DA1149C5DA2E@sweattechnologies.com> <55CBD269.6010407@fourthworld.com> <4C8CDE15-C200-4EA8-9B59-159858F53670@sweattechnologies.com> <1439564957521-4695027.post@n4.nabble.com> <656638C9-5142-4E8D-9A85-612F2182CC41@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Aug 15, 2015 at 3:56 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > You give them a script. Yes, but the script still needs a way to distinguish which changes happen from "normal use", and which from redesign, doesn't it? Clicking a property seems to be at least as easy as setting a behavior . . . In my case, I might have a display field that got resized as it needed more space, which shouldn't get logged as a vc change, next to a label field for which any change means I tinkered with how things get displayed. Even within a group, this will vary for me. (OK, the *particular* case I'm thinking of is also driven by the need to open cards and use formattedText on the open card, but still . . .) -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From alex at tweedly.org Sat Aug 15 20:50:19 2015 From: alex at tweedly.org (Alex Tweedly) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2015 01:50:19 +0100 Subject: iCalendar [.ics file] Open Source Lib for LiveCode In-Reply-To: <-7254090208274474328@unknownmsgid> References: <55CEA5A8.7090809@hindu.org> <55CEF080.2070207@tweedly.net> <-7254090208274474328@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <55CFDE4B.8050208@tweedly.org> I missed sending it ;-) It's at tweedly.org/downloads/icsLib_1_0.zip (contains the library, a demo and test stack, some test data, ...) Note that's an OLD file - ignore anything it might say in there about licensing; license will be more permissive (most likely MIT) rather than commercial &/or GPL. And also note it is nowhere near complete (e.g. I had no need to export, so never did any output functions :-), and hopefully Todd's attempt to make a project will take anything that might be useful from it and make it more complete .... -- Alex. On 15/08/2015 11:04, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote: > Where is your library > > I missed the Link > > Swasti Astu, Be Well > Brahmanathaswami > > www.himalayanacademy.com > >> On Aug 14, 2015, at 9:56 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote: >> >> However, vObjectLib has very little to help with correctly interpreting .ics files - so if you need to deal with >> - multiple time zones >> - the variety of ways that time zone settings or time zone info can be represented >> - recurring events >> - multi-day events (even from 11pm until 2am counts as multi-day) >> - lots of other oddities >> then you have to do that yourself. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From alex at tweedly.net Sat Aug 15 21:00:48 2015 From: alex at tweedly.net (Alex Tweedly) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2015 02:00:48 +0100 Subject: iCalendar [.ics file] Open Source Lib for LiveCode In-Reply-To: <55CFDE4B.8050208@tweedly.org> References: <55CEA5A8.7090809@hindu.org> <55CEF080.2070207@tweedly.net> <-7254090208274474328@unknownmsgid> <55CFDE4B.8050208@tweedly.org> Message-ID: <55CFE0C0.3040706@tweedly.net> On 16/08/2015 01:50, Alex Tweedly wrote: > I missed sending it ;-) > > It's at tweedly.org/downloads/icsLib_1_0.zip (contains the library, > a demo and test stack, some test data, ...) > > Note that's an OLD file - ignore anything it might say in there about > licensing; license will be more permissive (most likely MIT) rather > than commercial &/or GPL. > > And also note it is nowhere near complete (e.g. I had no need to > export, so never did any output functions :-), and hopefully Todd's > attempt to make a project will take anything that might be useful from > it and make it more complete .... > in particular, avoid the icsDemo stack - it was replace by icsTest and should have been omitted from the zip file. -- Alex. From monte at sweattechnologies.com Sat Aug 15 20:42:35 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2015 10:42:35 +1000 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: References: <55CB9FA1.30607@fourthworld.com> <2BFBCFB7-45E1-4113-9B97-21487C99A53C@m-r-d.de> <55CBAD21.5090305@fourthworld.com> <55CBB39C.40905@fourthworld.com> <2F7CB0D2-6DE0-4918-BAD3-DA1149C5DA2E@sweattechnologies.com> <55CBD269.6010407@fourthworld.com> <4C8CDE15-C200-4EA8-9B59-159858F53670@sweattechnologies.com> <1439564957521-4695027.post@n4.nabble.com> <656638C9-5142-4E8D-9A85-612F2182CC41@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <300710AB-FB88-4081-A1AB-BFB1B052BF7C@sweattechnologies.com> > On 16 Aug 2015, at 10:37 am, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > > Yes, but the script still needs a way to distinguish which changes happen > from "normal use", and which from redesign, doesn't it? Clicking a > property seems to be at least as easy as setting a behavior . . . > > In my case, I might have a display field that got resized as it needed more > space, which shouldn't get logged as a vc change, next to a label field for > which any change means I tinkered with how things get displayed. Even > within a group, this will vary for me. (OK, the *particular* case I'm > thinking of is also driven by the need to open cards and use formattedText > on the open card, but still . . .) Yell it?s up to the coder to decide what they want to put in the script to reset properties. In your use case you might resize the stack which would then call your resizeStack handler which handles all your layout correctly anyway. From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Sun Aug 16 00:06:57 2015 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2015 12:06:57 +0800 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: References: <2546A69E-E52F-4F00-83EF-64E4719DED49@sweattechnologies.com> <55CCD7A3.9030001@fourthworld.com> <4384b9e6177bc93a914f236acd4c6680@livecode.com> <29A53E47-15E5-4C5B-9936-93FD2BD0261D@major-k.de> <55CCE2E6.7030905@gmail.com> <154C35AA-FF5F-4282-B20E-7F18274C4B90@earthednet.org> <8F52318F-4350-4E1C-B35A-3856D3C25933@earthednet.org> Message-ID: On Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 8:12 PM, Roger Eller wrote: > Not contributing time and code does not necessarily make one a leech! Many > of us contributed monetarily to the kickstarter, and I believe that earns > us just as many beech points as anybody. > Absolutely. Everyone who posts here helping others who have problems with LC are productive members of the community - I'm amazed at the time some people put in and am thankful for every single one of them. 'Constructive' criticism too is an essential element of a community if it isn't going to stagnate, wallow and die in complacency. In this regard I have added the odd bug report or enhancement request to QQC - and note how rapidly the mothership responds. To me I rationalize that it's my way to help contribute to the engine because I certainly don't have the ability to contribute code. Yet how often do we hear complaints that something is broken but the poster has not submitted a bug report? Or how few have responded to the repeated request to check that your OLD bugs still appear in current version of LC and if they don't REMOVE the bug report so the db can be cleaned up and the Team can focus on relevant work. Yes, if you've contributed financially you deserve to get what you've paid for. I pay taxes in two countries. One has socialist leanings and has a dole system. If I were to ever become unemployed in that country I would expect to be 'covered' to the extent that the law provides based on the fact that I'm a tax paying law abiding citizen. I persuaded the CFO to contribute to the KickStarter campaign and as far as I'm concerned I got what was paid for. The KickStarter campaign was to bring LC Open Source; has that not been achieved? Yes, there are some goals that have yet to materialise but I've never seen anything to suggest that VCS or Git support or a Business Framework was one of them. I have not seen any counter argument to my MySQL example; what it's OK for them but not for LC to differentiate between dual license versions? Everyone should be able to have input, IMHO. > Absolutely agree, especially when that input is constructive. I didn't intend to mean that people shouldn't post, my comments were pointed towards the selfish attitude of I am entitled to this or that and 'someone else' should pay/work to make it happen. I don't see how people can't appreciate the gift they have been given, it's like those youtube videos of the teenager whose just been give a brand new convertible car for their birthday and they have a tantrum because it's the wrong colour - https://www .youtube.com/watch?v=-JvtlB_NzI8 If you think her complaint is valid.... then I guess it must be a cultural thing and I'm sorry if I disapprove of such an attitude and that this offends you. Since LC went OSS it costs me A LOT less to own, compared to all the years when it was Runtime Revolution, and it is a significantly better product and just keeps getting better. Thank you Team!!! Again, from my perspective, of all the communities I've ever been a part of, it always the same, there is a microscopically small number of dedicated Richards, Montes, Marks, Peters and Jacques who are in the trenches day in day out and drive the work forward in the most amazing way. Very few complaints from them, just constructive criticisms. There are the masses of sheep who just happily get herded along in whatever direction the community heads. And then there are the complainers, who sit on high, on a horse if you must, or in their ivory tower, unhappy with the colour, or that the work isn't being done fast enough, or their particular pet project isn't being worked on, but they themselves, although the shovels are free, don't ever seem to pick one up and actually step into the trench. In fact I'll stick my head out even further and say that generally these people will stay on their horses and tell everyone in the trenches that the flood waters are rising and they need to work faster filling sand bags, and disaster is looming and the levee is going to break but they will not get down and help fill sand bags. And when the levee breaks they'll stand back and say 'I told you so.' Completely unable to see that they themselves were part of the reason for the failure. * But then again, if you are saying that everyone should be able to complain, then I guess you are agree with me that I have every right to complain about the complainers;-) "I think all right-thinking people in this country are sick and tired of being told that ordinary, decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I'm certainly not! And I'm sick and tired of being told that I am". the late great Graham Chapman. 2 hr posting : 0 lines of Engine/OSS code added : 0 bug/enhancement reports to QQC this week. * I have an hypothesis that there is a definable ratio between workers : complainers that can accurately predict whether an OSS project will succeed. If a community was made up solely of teenagers like the one in the video, I predict it would fail, miserably. From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Sun Aug 16 01:38:41 2015 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2015 13:38:41 +0800 Subject: Get Modification Date of a Single File In-Reply-To: <55CAACAD.5020409@hindu.org> References: <55CAACAD.5020409@hindu.org> Message-ID: On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 10:17 AM, Brahmanathaswami wrote: > can we check the modification date of a single file? > > use case: mobile; get date of local file resource; ping LC server check on > mod date of the same resource, if latter is younger, then fetch it > > Sorry, can't help with mobile but for server can't you just run a shell script: ls -lT on my machine the output looks like this - which includes the modification date: -rw-r--r--@ 1 kcl staff 8192 30 Dec 08:02:29 2014 /Users/kcl /Documents/test.txt 'ls' (ell ess) is the standard shell List command which doesn't have to be a directory but can be a single file. The options, a lower case letter ell, followed by a capital tee. There may be better options which produce a better date format that requires less parsing by LC to get something useful to work with. HTH From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Sun Aug 16 02:42:08 2015 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2015 14:42:08 +0800 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: <43CD8158-FDFC-4DB0-A695-D8E8832C2E92@gmail.com> References: <43CD8158-FDFC-4DB0-A695-D8E8832C2E92@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 6:31 PM, Peter W A Wood wrote: > > There seems to have been three major deliverables promised in the main > campaign: > > Re-engineer the whole platform > A new technology: ?Open Language? > A new visual editor > I thought THE objective of the KickStarter Campaign was to make LC Open Source and Free to the Community. Wasn't that achieved? Everything else was just secondary but in support of that goal. From t.heaford at icloud.com Sun Aug 16 02:46:30 2015 From: t.heaford at icloud.com (Terence Heaford) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2015 07:46:30 +0100 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: References: <43CD8158-FDFC-4DB0-A695-D8E8832C2E92@gmail.com> Message-ID: <414019AE-0C37-4A7A-97AD-70A6952C86B0@icloud.com> > On 16 Aug 2015, at 07:42, Kay C Lan wrote: > > I thought THE objective of the KickStarter Campaign was to make LC Open > Source and Free to the Community. Wasn't that achieved? Everything else was > just secondary but in support of that goal. Can you give us your opinion as to why LC was made Open Source? Thanks Terry From peter.brett at livecode.com Sun Aug 16 03:27:59 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2015 08:27:59 +0100 Subject: Button does not receive mouseUP after disabling then enabling button In-Reply-To: <1439675631031-4695143.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1439667934343-4695119.post@n4.nabble.com> <961327AD-6216-46E5-A739-E8DFB2B0ECE6@mac.com> <1439671489534-4695133.post@n4.nabble.com> <1439675631031-4695143.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <2aea5bad01b6083c9c8169b4670224b5@livecode.com> On 2015-08-15 22:53, Martin Koob wrote: > Hi > > I found another way to resolve it that works in the sample stack and in > my > application. Reading about the wait command in the dictionary I saw > you can > also use send in time to give LiveCode a chance to process messages. > > If I use send in time for both "setState off" and "setState on" then I > can > click the button when it is re-enabled. > > Here is the workaround script for the sample button. > > on mouseUp > send "setState off" to me in 10 milliseconds > send "setState on" to me in 3 seconds > end mouseUp You can actually also do: send "setState off" to me in 0 seconds The engine will finish mouseUp, process messages, and then immediately run "setState off". Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Engine Development Team From tfabacher at gmail.com Sun Aug 16 09:02:57 2015 From: tfabacher at gmail.com (Todd Fabacher) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2015 09:02:57 -0400 Subject: iCalendar [.ics file] Open Source Lib for LiveCode Message-ID: Thanks Alex. I am taking off the week to finish the Calendar App and do the slides for the Create It with LiveCode course. I will include this functionality and send it back to the community to use. Much appreciated, Todd >It's at tweedly.org/downloads/icsLib_1_0.zip (contains the library, a >demo and test stack, some test data, ...) From mark at livecode.com Sun Aug 16 10:02:13 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2015 15:02:13 +0100 Subject: Downloaded stacks on iOS In-Reply-To: <02FEC1E9-4807-4712-9C93-03BD17EBD46E@sweattechnologies.com> References: <55CEA1D9.7060405@hindu.org> <55CEA769.9010501@fourthworld.com> <02FEC1E9-4807-4712-9C93-03BD17EBD46E@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: Monte's reading of the clause is the same as mine (given the trouble that section of the agreement has given us over the years I keep a close eye on it). Basically Apple do not want apps to be able to download executable code which could do anything more than their analysis of the app at submission time can do. By 'anything more' what they are really trying to stop I think is downloaded code accessing any system APIs which the original app did not. The main reason for this I suspect is security. If apps could download code which could exploit any uncovered flaws or vulnerabilities in any of these apis its a vector for malware. By restricting downloadable code to things that run on JavaScriptCore they know that code that is downloaded can do no more than the environment it is downloaded into has hooked into. (Of course an app could potentially provide a means for dynamically hooking into system APIs from JavaScript - so it does make me wonder how effective the restriction actually is, and therefore if there is something I'm missing!). The main problem with JavaScriptCore is that it can't do dynamic compilation to native code to speed things up - a user space app on iOS cannot make memory pages executable. So code run through this library directly will be slower than running in Mobile Safari (no 'nitro' mode). Since iOS8, however, a WebView (like Mobile Safari) does use Nitro for its JavaScript through a process separation model. Which I suspect is why it is now more practical for many apps to download and use JS for a good deal of their implementation (if they can run in a WebView, at least). So as far as I can see the current situation is that if you download LiveCode stacks that contain code in your app then it violates the terms of the App Store agreement. If you download JavaScript and execute it through JSC or a WebView you do not (as long as you don't violate the other requirement - that the code does not make your app do something outside its submitted intent). The technical side is pretty unambiguous as far as I can see - the gray area is the definition of what an apps purpose is and therefore what downloaded code can do without violating another part of the license. Mark. Sent from my iPhone > On 15 Aug 2015, at 04:16, Monte Goulding wrote: > > It's not vague at all. It's right there in the article and the only way these guys can do what they are doing is because their apps are JavaScript as I said before. Read the clause it explicitly rules out what you are talking about unless it's JavaScript run in WebKit or JavaScriptCore. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On 15 Aug 2015, at 12:43 pm, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> >> Android has no restriction on this, and the applicability of Apple's guidelines to this seems, as they say, "vague". I've not found the specific text of the app store dev TOS that prohibits that, and unless it were abused I can't see how it differs much from downloading any binary data. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mkoob at rogers.com Sun Aug 16 10:20:48 2015 From: mkoob at rogers.com (Martin Koob) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2015 07:20:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Button does not receive mouseUP after disabling then enabling button In-Reply-To: <2aea5bad01b6083c9c8169b4670224b5@livecode.com> References: <1439667934343-4695119.post@n4.nabble.com> <961327AD-6216-46E5-A739-E8DFB2B0ECE6@mac.com> <1439671489534-4695133.post@n4.nabble.com> <1439675631031-4695143.post@n4.nabble.com> <2aea5bad01b6083c9c8169b4670224b5@livecode.com> Message-ID: <1439734848674-4695164.post@n4.nabble.com> Peter TB Brett wrote > You can actually also do: > > send "setState off" to me in 0 seconds > > The engine will finish mouseUp, process messages, and then immediately > run "setState off". Hi Peter Thanks. I have changed to 0 seconds. How messages are processed sent, held and interfere with one another is one area I need to better understand. I am not sure for example when and why I should use lock messages or send in time or wait with messages. I usually only try those when something is not working as expected. Is there a good explanation of this somewhere? I have posted a bug report http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15730 Thanks for your help. Martin -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Button-does-not-receive-mouseUP-after-disabling-then-enabling-button-tp4695119p4695164.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sun Aug 16 12:04:47 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2015 09:04:47 -0700 Subject: Bug getting group name, plse check In-Reply-To: <8F1224DA-0F8F-486A-AB82-204059790B3E@earthednet.org> References: <8F1224DA-0F8F-486A-AB82-204059790B3E@earthednet.org> Message-ID: <55D0B49F.1070400@fourthworld.com> William Prothero wrote: > Richard: > This is an example of how difficult it can be to find docs on an > operation that isn?t commonly used and that doesn?t have ?obvious? > syntax. ... > Perhaps if there was a dictionary based, not on livecode commands, > but on operations that the user wants to perform, with great search, > it would be helpful. We definitely need tagging in the Dictionary, something I'll be pushing for as we finally get the ball rolling with the Community Documentation Team soon. With searchable tags anyone can add terms that will help others find relevant tokens. If you were able to add tags to the "owner" Dictionary entry, what would those be? What sorts of terms and concepts come to find when looking for ways to refer to objects in the message path? > Then again, this list is a great source of this kind of info too. This list is great, and so are the forums, but IMO people rely on them sooner in the process than would be ideal. LiveCode is a very unusual language so it requires much care in how it's presented, and more importantly in it's indexed, so searches can be made for concepts and not just keywords. -- Richard Gaskin LiveCode Community Manager richard at livecode.org From pete at lcsql.com Sun Aug 16 12:38:29 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2015 16:38:29 +0000 Subject: Bug getting group name, plse check In-Reply-To: <55D0B49F.1070400@fourthworld.com> References: <8F1224DA-0F8F-486A-AB82-204059790B3E@earthednet.org> <55D0B49F.1070400@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Pending updates to the dictionary, I have a plugin available that lets you add your own notes to dictionary entries and also tag them with keywords of your choice. Unfortunately, the details are local to your computer and not available to other users. It can be downloaded at http://www.lcsql.com/free-stuff.html, click the lcDictUserNotes button. On Sun, Aug 16, 2015 at 9:05 AM Richard Gaskin wrote: > William Prothero wrote: > > Richard: > > This is an example of how difficult it can be to find docs on an > > operation that isn?t commonly used and that doesn?t have ?obvious? > > syntax. > ... > > Perhaps if there was a dictionary based, not on livecode commands, > > but on operations that the user wants to perform, with great search, > > it would be helpful. > > We definitely need tagging in the Dictionary, something I'll be pushing > for as we finally get the ball rolling with the Community Documentation > Team soon. > > With searchable tags anyone can add terms that will help others find > relevant tokens. > > If you were able to add tags to the "owner" Dictionary entry, what would > those be? What sorts of terms and concepts come to find when looking > for ways to refer to objects in the message path? > > > > Then again, this list is a great source of this kind of info too. > > This list is great, and so are the forums, but IMO people rely on them > sooner in the process than would be ideal. > > LiveCode is a very unusual language so it requires much care in how it's > presented, and more importantly in it's indexed, so searches can be made > for concepts and not just keywords. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > LiveCode Community Manager > richard at livecode.org > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sun Aug 16 13:37:20 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2015 20:37:20 +0300 Subject: Archaeology Message-ID: <55D0CA50.3030808@gmail.com> So; just back from a computer-Free weekend in the villa; so read the Revolution 1.1.1. guidebook and coming up with several questions: 1. 'Transcript' . . . not anymore, BUT does the language-qua-language have a name that is distinct from the IDE? 2. 12 classes of objects . . . well EPS seems to have gone the way of all flesh . . . 3. How come after 15 years with LiveCode I have NEVER heard of 'try/catch/throw' ? is this because they are pointless, or am I missing something extremely important? 4. chunk expressions: err . . . ok, SENTENCE was introduced in LC 7.0 "delimited by UniCode sentence breaks', that is going to need some explaining, especially as a 'sentence' may be a concept that isn't present in all languages ???? 5. cross-platform conversion of custom props. well in 1.1.1. it didn't happen; does it happen now? 6. "any groups on the current card are automatically placed on the new card": well that didn't happen just now when I tried it in 7.1. but CLONE was introduced at version 1.0, so why was this capability dropped? 7. Stack Mover: I cannot see that in the Application Browser for 7.1 . . . Would be most grateful for any answers to the above, and especially #3. Richmond. From pete at lcsql.com Sun Aug 16 13:41:53 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2015 17:41:53 +0000 Subject: mySQL: PHP or direct access? In-Reply-To: References: <55CE39F4.4010004@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Thanks Peter, I have updated the bug report to ask the question as you suggested. With respect, unless revdb is an lc script, it's highly unlikely I would have the skills to change it. On Sat, Aug 15, 2015 at 1:29 PM Peter TB Brett wrote: > On 2015-08-15 18:30, Peter Haworth wrote: > > Excellent, thank you Peter. Had not had a chance to look at the > > release > > notes for those two versions yet. It doesn't look like the referenced > > bug > > report 14289 has been updated to reflect this. > > > > Couple of follow up questions. > > > > Has the sqlite user authentication module been enabled in this version > > of > > the library? Details are at > > http://www.sqlite.org/src/doc/trunk/ext/userauth/user-auth.txt. There > > are > > some new sqlite APIs involved with this which I believe would require > > corresponding new LC database functions. > > > > Can you comment on my request to allow LC users to dynamically load an > > sqlite library of their choice? It seems that capability would relieve > > the > > team from having to keep up to date with the SQLite library, except of > > course in situations where the LC interface to the sqlite library > > requires > > a change. > > I can't answer any of those questions -- you're best off posting them to > the relevant bug report(s). > > There's no reason you can't simply compile your own copy of the revdb > extension to your exact requirements, however. It should be possible > for a custom version to be a direct, drop-in replacement. All the > source code etc. is there. > > Peter > > -- > Dr Peter Brett > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From mark at livecode.com Sun Aug 16 13:50:53 2015 From: mark at livecode.com (Mark Waddingham) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2015 18:50:53 +0100 Subject: Archaeology In-Reply-To: <55D0CA50.3030808@gmail.com> References: <55D0CA50.3030808@gmail.com> Message-ID: <13C0BF11-D29E-40F8-B40D-B1BDA486CA65@livecode.com> > 1. 'Transcript' . . . not anymore, BUT does the language-qua-language have a name that is distinct from the IDE? Well LiveCode is the umbrella... LiveCode IDE and LiveCode Script being what we use when it's not clear from context. > 2. 12 classes of objects . . . well EPS seems to have gone the way of all flesh . . EPS always relied on a display postscript system which was only ever available on some higher end Unix systems way back. > 3. How come after 15 years with LiveCode I have NEVER heard of 'try/catch/throw' ? is this because they are pointless, > or am I missing something extremely important? They are used for error handling. It allows you to catch runtime errors and then take appropriate action when they occur. > 4. chunk expressions: err . . . ok, SENTENCE was introduced in LC 7.0 "delimited by UniCode sentence breaks', that is going to need > some explaining, especially as a 'sentence' may be a concept that isn't present in all languages ??? Indeed. Sentences in LiveCode are defined by the standard rules mandated by the unicode consortium. They are 'useful' for mechanical operations such as in text editors, but are only an approximation to real linguistic analysis (which would be too ambiguous for the contexts the intended definition is purposed for). > 5. cross-platform conversion of custom props. well in 1.1.1. it didn't happen; does it happen now? In 7 it's no longer relevant. Text custom properties are stored as text so there are no charset issues. > 6. "any groups on the current card are automatically placed on the new card": well that didn't happen just now when I tried it in 7.1. > but CLONE was introduced at version 1.0, so why was this capability dropped? It hasn't been. I believe background behaviour groups still behave like that. > 7. Stack Mover: I cannot see that in the Application Browser for 7.1 . . . I'm not sure what that is... > Would be most grateful for any answers to the above, and especially #3. > > Richmond. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sun Aug 16 13:59:49 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2015 20:59:49 +0300 Subject: Archaeology In-Reply-To: <13C0BF11-D29E-40F8-B40D-B1BDA486CA65@livecode.com> References: <55D0CA50.3030808@gmail.com> <13C0BF11-D29E-40F8-B40D-B1BDA486CA65@livecode.com> Message-ID: <55D0CF95.9090304@gmail.com> On 16/08/15 20:50, Mark Waddingham wrote: Thank you very much; useful answers. Richmond. >> 1. 'Transcript' . . . not anymore, BUT does the language-qua-language have a name that is distinct from the IDE? > Well LiveCode is the umbrella... LiveCode IDE and LiveCode Script being what we use when it's not clear from context. > >> 2. 12 classes of objects . . . well EPS seems to have gone the way of all flesh . . > EPS always relied on a display postscript system which was only ever available on some higher end Unix systems way back. > >> 3. How come after 15 years with LiveCode I have NEVER heard of 'try/catch/throw' ? is this because they are pointless, >> or am I missing something extremely important? > They are used for error handling. It allows you to catch runtime errors and then take appropriate action when they occur. > >> 4. chunk expressions: err . . . ok, SENTENCE was introduced in LC 7.0 "delimited by UniCode sentence breaks', that is going to need >> some explaining, especially as a 'sentence' may be a concept that isn't present in all languages ??? > Indeed. Sentences in LiveCode are defined by the standard rules mandated by the unicode consortium. They are 'useful' for mechanical operations such as in text editors, but are only an approximation to real linguistic analysis (which would be too ambiguous for the contexts the intended definition is purposed for). > >> 5. cross-platform conversion of custom props. well in 1.1.1. it didn't happen; does it happen now? > In 7 it's no longer relevant. Text custom properties are stored as text so there are no charset issues. > >> 6. "any groups on the current card are automatically placed on the new card": well that didn't happen just now when I tried it in 7.1. >> but CLONE was introduced at version 1.0, so why was this capability dropped? > It hasn't been. I believe background behaviour groups still behave like that. > >> 7. Stack Mover: I cannot see that in the Application Browser for 7.1 . . . > I'm not sure what that is... > >> Would be most grateful for any answers to the above, and especially #3. >> >> Richmond. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Sun Aug 16 16:07:28 2015 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2015 16:07:28 -0400 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: <414019AE-0C37-4A7A-97AD-70A6952C86B0@icloud.com> References: <43CD8158-FDFC-4DB0-A695-D8E8832C2E92@gmail.com> <414019AE-0C37-4A7A-97AD-70A6952C86B0@icloud.com> Message-ID: In my opinion, it was to give it a chance to grow, by incorporating other open tech, and also to just KEEP UP with the ever changing tech world without consuming the inadequate resources of the mother ship. On Aug 16, 2015 2:46 AM, "Terence Heaford" wrote: > > > On 16 Aug 2015, at 07:42, Kay C Lan wrote: > > > > I thought THE objective of the KickStarter Campaign was to make LC Open > > Source and Free to the Community. Wasn't that achieved? Everything else > was > > just secondary but in support of that goal. > > > Can you give us your opinion as to why LC was made Open Source? > > > Thanks > > Terry > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From dochawk at gmail.com Sun Aug 16 16:55:46 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2015 13:55:46 -0700 Subject: Archaeology In-Reply-To: <13C0BF11-D29E-40F8-B40D-B1BDA486CA65@livecode.com> References: <55D0CA50.3030808@gmail.com> <13C0BF11-D29E-40F8-B40D-B1BDA486CA65@livecode.com> Message-ID: On Sunday, August 16, 2015, Mark Waddingham wrote: > > > > 2. 12 classes of objects . . . well EPS seems to have gone the way of > all flesh . . > > EPS always relied on a display postscript system which was only ever > available on some higher end Unix systems way back. But it sure would nice to be able to include eps. Ultimately, I am likely to be forced to a platform with serious eps/pdf support > 3. How come after 15 years with LiveCode I have NEVER heard of > 'try/catch/throw' ? is this because they are pointless, > > or am I missing something extremely important? > > They are used for error handling. It allows you to catch runtime errors > and then take appropriate action when they occur. > > They come up every few months on this list > > > 6. "any groups on the current card are automatically placed on the new > card": well that didn't happen just now when I tried it in 7.1. > > but CLONE was introduced at version 1.0, so why was this capability > dropped? > > It hasn't been. I believe background behaviour groups still behave like > that. They do; I am heavily dependent on them -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sun Aug 16 17:34:11 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2015 16:34:11 -0500 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: References: <43CD8158-FDFC-4DB0-A695-D8E8832C2E92@gmail.com> <414019AE-0C37-4A7A-97AD-70A6952C86B0@icloud.com> Message-ID: <55D101D3.6070207@hyperactivesw.com> You're right. It was also it increase the user base, which it did considerably, so that LC would become better known and accepted generally. As you say, the move to open source was also meant to allow others to contribute to the engine so that fixes and new features would be incorporated more quickly. Unfortunately that hasn't been the case; except for a few skilled people (actually I can only think of two offhand) the community has not done much there. I've contributed a tiny little bit to fix an IDE bug but that's about as far as my own skills go. On 8/16/2015 3:07 PM, Roger Eller wrote: > In my opinion, it was to give it a chance to grow, by incorporating other > open tech, and also to just KEEP UP with the ever changing tech world > without consuming the inadequate resources of the mother ship. > On Aug 16, 2015 2:46 AM, "Terence Heaford" wrote: > >> >>> On 16 Aug 2015, at 07:42, Kay C Lan wrote: >>> >>> I thought THE objective of the KickStarter Campaign was to make LC Open >>> Source and Free to the Community. Wasn't that achieved? Everything else >> was >>> just secondary but in support of that goal. >> >> >> Can you give us your opinion as to why LC was made Open Source? >> >> >> Thanks >> >> Terry >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Sun Aug 16 22:46:47 2015 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 10:46:47 +0800 Subject: Bug getting group name, plse check In-Reply-To: <55D0B49F.1070400@fourthworld.com> References: <8F1224DA-0F8F-486A-AB82-204059790B3E@earthednet.org> <55D0B49F.1070400@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 12:04 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > > We definitely need tagging in the Dictionary, something I'll be pushing for as we finally get the ball rolling with the Community Documentation Team soon. > > With searchable tags anyone can add terms that will help others find relevant tokens. > I appreciate this is a bit late to the game, and this Doc Team may already be heading in a certain direction, but I'm wondering if there's been an thought of adopting some kind of 'Industry Standard' docset format? Admittedly I didn't know that such a thing existed until I picked up an App called Dash as part of a bundle purchase: https://kapeli.com/dash I didn't buy the bundle because of this app but when I looked into it I was very intrigued and from my limited fooling around with it I've got to say I'm very impressed. What is clear though is that out there there are a couple of docset standards: Supports AppleDoc docsets Supports Doxygen docsets Supports CocoaDocs docsets Supports Python / Sphinx docsets Supports Ruby / Yard docsets Supports Javadoc docsets Supports Scaladoc docsets Supports GoDoc docsets Supports Any HTML docsets Previously I've been of the opinion that the LC Dictionary should be a shining example of what can be done with LC - much like the old HC Dictionary. Unfortunately, currently it is not that. As I get older & lazier, I'm more of the opinion that one should avoid reinventing the wheel whenever possible. IMO, the Doc Team should either: 1) Go for a 100% LC built Dictionary that is a shining example of it's feature set = a lot of thought, planning and effort required. 2) Adopt a Docset format that can be used by 3rd Party Apps like Dash and requires a simple LC Docset Viewer = far less effort. For case 2 it would simply be a matter of the team investigating those various docsets and determining which provides the greatest flexibility, adaptability and feature set - a great time save as someone else has already done the hard yards developing a schema. A LC built Dictionary viewer would still need to be made but at least you've saved a lot of predevelopment time and hopefully avoided all the pitfalls some of the earlier implementations these other docsets may have suffered. It would mean that the LC Docset and LC Docset Viewer would not have to be created concurrently; the Docset could be created and viewable immediately by 3rd party apps whilst the inbuilt LC Dictionary Viewer is being worked on. I believe there might also be a bit of a knock on effect if developers using Python/Ruby/Java discover they can use the same Document Utility they are using to access the LC Docset. Just a thought. From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Sun Aug 16 22:58:58 2015 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 10:58:58 +0800 Subject: Archaeology In-Reply-To: <55D0CA50.3030808@gmail.com> References: <55D0CA50.3030808@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 1:37 AM, Richmond wrote: > 3. How come after 15 years with LiveCode I have NEVER heard of > 'try/catch/throw' ? is this because they are pointless, > or am I missing something extremely important? > Because you're human and you don't sit down late at night and read a couple of pages from the LC Dictionary prior to retiring to bed. You also don't read every single line of every single post to this List because if you did, as the good Dr posted, they do come up specifically or consequentially from included code snippets people post. But you're a better man than me because I wouldn't dig up the Rev 1.1.1 docs to see what I've missed; I have enough trouble keeping up with today's constant updates :-) From monte at sweattechnologies.com Sun Aug 16 23:04:51 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 13:04:51 +1000 Subject: Bug getting group name, plse check In-Reply-To: References: <8F1224DA-0F8F-486A-AB82-204059790B3E@earthednet.org> <55D0B49F.1070400@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <9CE31E63-E641-4243-B01F-D3B0051BBE1B@sweattechnologies.com> > On 17 Aug 2015, at 12:46 pm, Kay C Lan wrote: > > I appreciate this is a bit late to the game, and this Doc Team may > already be heading in a certain direction, but I'm wondering if > there's been an thought of adopting some kind of 'Industry Standard' > docset format? I don?t know the process they used to arrive at the decision but they appear to have invented their own file format .lcdoc. There?s no spec for it in the repo unfortunately but there?s obviously lots of examples eg: https://github.com/runrev/livecode/blob/develop/docs/dictionary/command/add.lcdoc It?s a nice easy format that would be simple for LC community members to contribute changes. Indeed you could easily do it all on line via GitHub?s document editor. Perhaps that was one of the design goals but as long as we don?t need to deal with those old xml files I?m happy. Cheers Monte From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Sun Aug 16 23:17:25 2015 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 11:17:25 +0800 Subject: Bug getting group name, plse check In-Reply-To: <9CE31E63-E641-4243-B01F-D3B0051BBE1B@sweattechnologies.com> References: <8F1224DA-0F8F-486A-AB82-204059790B3E@earthednet.org> <55D0B49F.1070400@fourthworld.com> <9CE31E63-E641-4243-B01F-D3B0051BBE1B@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 11:04 AM, Monte Goulding wrote: > > It?s a nice easy format that would be simple for LC community members to contribute changes. Indeed you could easily do it all on line via GitHub?s document editor. Perhaps that was one of the design goals but as long as we don?t need to deal with those old xml files I?m happy. > nice easy; simple; community; contribute; easily; GitHub's document editor; don't need to deal with those old xml files; happy. Sounds like they're hitting all the right targets :-) add 1 to happy From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Sun Aug 16 23:30:25 2015 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2015 23:30:25 -0400 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: <55D101D3.6070207@hyperactivesw.com> References: <43CD8158-FDFC-4DB0-A695-D8E8832C2E92@gmail.com> <414019AE-0C37-4A7A-97AD-70A6952C86B0@icloud.com> <55D101D3.6070207@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: I am surprised that anyone would expect a lot of coding help to rise out of the LC community. Sure there are a few who have experience in the lower level languages, but my sole reason in choosing LC was for the English-like syntax. I don't know, nor do I want to learn C or Objective C or anything else. I started with HC, and it ends with LC for me. On Aug 16, 2015 5:34 PM, "J. Landman Gay" wrote: > You're right. It was also it increase the user base, which it did > considerably, so that LC would become better known and accepted generally. > As you say, the move to open source was also meant to allow others to > contribute to the engine so that fixes and new features would be > incorporated more quickly. Unfortunately that hasn't been the case; except > for a few skilled people (actually I can only think of two offhand) the > community has not done much there. > > I've contributed a tiny little bit to fix an IDE bug but that's about as > far as my own skills go. > > > On 8/16/2015 3:07 PM, Roger Eller wrote: > >> In my opinion, it was to give it a chance to grow, by incorporating other >> open tech, and also to just KEEP UP with the ever changing tech world >> without consuming the inadequate resources of the mother ship. >> On Aug 16, 2015 2:46 AM, "Terence Heaford" wrote: >> >> >>> On 16 Aug 2015, at 07:42, Kay C Lan wrote: >>>> >>>> I thought THE objective of the KickStarter Campaign was to make LC Open >>>> Source and Free to the Community. Wasn't that achieved? Everything else >>>> >>> was >>> >>>> just secondary but in support of that goal. >>>> >>> >>> >>> Can you give us your opinion as to why LC was made Open Source? >>> >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> Terry >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Mon Aug 17 00:26:48 2015 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 12:26:48 +0800 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: <414019AE-0C37-4A7A-97AD-70A6952C86B0@icloud.com> References: <43CD8158-FDFC-4DB0-A695-D8E8832C2E92@gmail.com> <414019AE-0C37-4A7A-97AD-70A6952C86B0@icloud.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Aug 16, 2015 at 2:46 PM, Terence Heaford wrote: > > Can you give us your opinion as to why LC was made Open Source? > The OP was a Score Card on the KickStarter Objectives not a list of opinions. Now I admit that English is NOT my strong suit as I barely passed - 49.5% was rounded up to 50%, and so I can't read between the lines I just read the lines, particularly the headlines so what I get from this: http://thenextweb.com/insider/2013/01/29/runrev-launches-kickstarter-campaign-to-create-open-source-version-of-livecode/ Is that the objective of the KickStarter Campaign was to create an open source version of LiveCode. If my reading of that is wrong, then OK, it's my failure to grasp the English language. As for my opinion; 1) they achieved the primary goal 2) there were stated sub goals to that primary goal that have no yet been fulfilled 3) everyone who contributed to the KS Campaign has a right to expect those goals to be fulfilled 4) every direct dealing I've ever had with Runrev/LC over the years has been positive and by a person/s who seem dedicated to doing the right thing by the customer 5) I have every belief that the outstanding KS commitments will be met if at all possible 6) the LC Team is a bunch of humans, not Gods, if it turns out something is impossible, then it's impossible and they'll let us know and I can live with that. ( I couldn't do 1% of what they do so it's all impossible to me) 7) LC is a commercial entity and as such needs constant $$$s to survive. As such Commercial License holders who are providing constant $$$s should have priority focus by the Team to keep them happy and coming back. 8) My $ contribution to LC is minuscule, my contribution to the Community isn't much better, certainly nothing to the Engine/IDE code, just some bug reports and hopefully posts here that occasionally help solve someone's problem. If the OS Community was made up of only people like me, it would be doomed. If LC as a company was banking on people like me, it would fail. So I'm thankful for the Monte's, Richards, Marks, Peters and Jacques in the Community and that LC maintains a focus on it's real $$$ customers so that it has a fighting change of achieving another of it's stated goals - 'every one can create apps'. And I believe in that. As to my opinion as the why LC was made open source. That's easy, I have no clue as to what Livecodes annual turnover is. I don't know how large, diverse or the makeup of their commercial customers. I don't know what their staff number are, or their costs. I can barely comprehend how incomprehensible the task of making a multi-platform Rapid Development Environment is. In my opinion though, Kevin does and seems to me to be an extremely intelligent, driven, goal centred and positively looking forward individual. The LC Team should be forever thankful that it is Kevin's opinion and not mine that drives the direction the company is headed. In summary, my opinion as to why LC went open source is because Kevin believes it was in the best interest to his company, his employees, his customers, his investors and ultimately to his goal to show everyone that they can make apps. 1 hr posting : 0 lines of Engine/OSS code added : 0 bug/enhancement reports to QQC this week. From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Mon Aug 17 00:43:15 2015 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 12:43:15 +0800 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: References: <43CD8158-FDFC-4DB0-A695-D8E8832C2E92@gmail.com> <414019AE-0C37-4A7A-97AD-70A6952C86B0@icloud.com> <55D101D3.6070207@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 11:30 AM, Roger Eller wrote: > I am surprised that anyone would expect a lot of coding help to rise out of > the LC community. Sure there are a few who have experience in the lower > level languages, but my sole reason in choosing LC was for the English-like > syntax. I don't know, nor do I want to learn C or Objective C or anything > else. I started with HC, and it ends with LC for me. > On Aug 16, 2015 5:34 PM, "J. Landman Gay" wrote: > Fully agreed. Which is why I hope the LC Team continue to focus on their Commercial Customers and provide them with features that keep them coming back. I think I've made it obvious I feel the LC Team should be cut some slack and Commercial Customers deserve a feature set beyond just locked code. 1 hr posting : 0 lines of Engine/OSS code added : 0 bug/enhancement reports to QQC this week. From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Aug 17 00:55:34 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2015 23:55:34 -0500 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: References: <43CD8158-FDFC-4DB0-A695-D8E8832C2E92@gmail.com> <414019AE-0C37-4A7A-97AD-70A6952C86B0@icloud.com> <55D101D3.6070207@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <6E4966DC-2249-44EB-B2D9-4BAE1E04BCC0@hyperactivesw.com> Yes, I think most of us old timers are like that. I think the idea was that new users coming from other languages would get involved though. On August 16, 2015 10:30:25 PM CDT, Roger Eller wrote: >I am surprised that anyone would expect a lot of coding help to rise >out of >the LC community. Sure there are a few who have experience in the >lower >level languages, but my sole reason in choosing LC was for the >English-like >syntax. I don't know, nor do I want to learn C or Objective C or >anything >else. I started with HC, and it ends with LC for me. >On Aug 16, 2015 5:34 PM, "J. Landman Gay" >wrote: > >> You're right. It was also it increase the user base, which it did >> considerably, so that LC would become better known and accepted >generally. >> As you say, the move to open source was also meant to allow others to >> contribute to the engine so that fixes and new features would be >> incorporated more quickly. Unfortunately that hasn't been the case; >except >> for a few skilled people (actually I can only think of two offhand) >the >> community has not done much there. >> >> I've contributed a tiny little bit to fix an IDE bug but that's about >as >> far as my own skills go. >> >> >> On 8/16/2015 3:07 PM, Roger Eller wrote: >> >>> In my opinion, it was to give it a chance to grow, by incorporating >other >>> open tech, and also to just KEEP UP with the ever changing tech >world >>> without consuming the inadequate resources of the mother ship. >>> On Aug 16, 2015 2:46 AM, "Terence Heaford" >wrote: >>> >>> >>>> On 16 Aug 2015, at 07:42, Kay C Lan >wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I thought THE objective of the KickStarter Campaign was to make LC >Open >>>>> Source and Free to the Community. Wasn't that achieved? Everything >else >>>>> >>>> was >>>> >>>>> just secondary but in support of that goal. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Can you give us your opinion as to why LC was made Open Source? >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> >>>> Terry >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> >> >> -- >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >_______________________________________________ >use-livecode mailing list >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From dixonja at hotmail.co.uk Mon Aug 17 01:43:52 2015 From: dixonja at hotmail.co.uk (John Dixon) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 06:43:52 +0100 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: References: <43CD8158-FDFC-4DB0-A695-D8E8832C2E92@gmail.com>, , <414019AE-0C37-4A7A-97AD-70A6952C86B0@icloud.com>, , <55D101D3.6070207@hyperactivesw.com>, , Message-ID: > Fully agreed. Which is why I hope the LC Team continue to focus on > their Commercial Customers and provide them with features that keep > them coming back. > > I think I've made it obvious I feel the LC Team should be cut some > slack and Commercial Customers deserve a feature set beyond just > locked code. The Kickstarter campaign announced a community version (open source) that would be the same as a commercial version (closed source) , less the ability to secure code ?... Why should that change ? From peter.brett at livecode.com Mon Aug 17 02:22:10 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 07:22:10 +0100 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: References: <43CD8158-FDFC-4DB0-A695-D8E8832C2E92@gmail.com> <414019AE-0C37-4A7A-97AD-70A6952C86B0@icloud.com> <55D101D3.6070207@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: On 2015-08-17 04:30, Roger Eller wrote: > I am surprised that anyone would expect a lot of coding help to rise > out of > the LC community. Sure there are a few who have experience in the > lower > level languages, but my sole reason in choosing LC was for the > English-like > syntax. I don't know, nor do I want to learn C or Objective C or > anything > else. I started with HC, and it ends with LC for me. One of the most important things that we are achieving with LiveCode Builder is to make it possible to write LiveCode itself in LiveCode. We really want to enable people who know how to program in LiveCode to extend and improve the LiveCode engine themselves, to add the features they need and fix the bugs that affect them. LiveCode Builder is a key milestone towards that goal. Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Engine Development Team From peter.brett at livecode.com Mon Aug 17 02:27:44 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 07:27:44 +0100 Subject: "lcdoc" documentation [was: Re: Bug getting group name, plse check] In-Reply-To: <9CE31E63-E641-4243-B01F-D3B0051BBE1B@sweattechnologies.com> References: <8F1224DA-0F8F-486A-AB82-204059790B3E@earthednet.org> <55D0B49F.1070400@fourthworld.com> <9CE31E63-E641-4243-B01F-D3B0051BBE1B@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: On 2015-08-17 04:04, Monte Goulding wrote: >> On 17 Aug 2015, at 12:46 pm, Kay C Lan >> wrote: >> >> I appreciate this is a bit late to the game, and this Doc Team may >> already be heading in a certain direction, but I'm wondering if >> there's been an thought of adopting some kind of 'Industry Standard' >> docset format? > > I don?t know the process they used to arrive at the decision but they > appear to have invented their own file format .lcdoc. There?s no spec > for it in the repo unfortunately The spec is here: https://github.com/runrev/livecode-ide/blob/develop/Documentation/guides/Extending%20LiveCode.md#documentation-markup We need to make it easier to find -- I'll see what I can do to make that happen. Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Engine Development Team From monte at sweattechnologies.com Mon Aug 17 02:29:59 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 16:29:59 +1000 Subject: "lcdoc" documentation [was: Re: Bug getting group name, plse check] In-Reply-To: References: <8F1224DA-0F8F-486A-AB82-204059790B3E@earthednet.org> <55D0B49F.1070400@fourthworld.com> <9CE31E63-E641-4243-B01F-D3B0051BBE1B@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: > The spec is here: > > https://github.com/runrev/livecode-ide/blob/develop/Documentation/guides/Extending%20LiveCode.md#documentation-markup > > We need to make it easier to find -- I'll see what I can do to make that happen. Oh, thanks I was looking in https://github.com/runrev/livecode/tree/develop/docs/specs From peter.brett at livecode.com Mon Aug 17 02:44:35 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 07:44:35 +0100 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: References: <43CD8158-FDFC-4DB0-A695-D8E8832C2E92@gmail.com>, , <414019AE-0C37-4A7A-97AD-70A6952C86B0@icloud.com>, , <55D101D3.6070207@hyperactivesw.com>, , Message-ID: <91eaf7e476f7eb2cd54c85a8b7ce6dd6@livecode.com> On 2015-08-17 06:43, John Dixon wrote: >> Fully agreed. Which is why I hope the LC Team continue to focus on >> their Commercial Customers and provide them with features that keep >> them coming back. >> >> I think I've made it obvious I feel the LC Team should be cut some >> slack and Commercial Customers deserve a feature set beyond just >> locked code. > > The Kickstarter campaign announced a community version (open source) > that would be the same as a commercial version (closed source) , less > the ability to secure code ?... Why should that change ? Nothing has changed. The Kickstarter campaign (which was *well* before I joined the project) announced an open source community version of LiveCode that would have all the features that were in the commercial version **at the time of the Kickstarter campaign**. As far as I have been able to tell, at no point did RunRev rule out adding new, commercial-only features in the future. Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Engine Development Team From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Mon Aug 17 03:20:07 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 10:20:07 +0300 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: <55D101D3.6070207@hyperactivesw.com> References: <43CD8158-FDFC-4DB0-A695-D8E8832C2E92@gmail.com> <414019AE-0C37-4A7A-97AD-70A6952C86B0@icloud.com> <55D101D3.6070207@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <55D18B27.2090406@gmail.com> On 17/08/15 00:34, J. Landman Gay wrote: > You're right. It was also it increase the user base, which it did > considerably, so that LC would become better known and accepted > generally. As you say, the move to open source was also meant to allow > others to contribute to the engine so that fixes and new features > would be incorporated more quickly. Unfortunately that hasn't been the > case; except for a few skilled people (actually I can only think of > two offhand) the community has not done much there. Contributing to the engine requires that LiveCode users have what is called 'meta-knowledge', i.e. they understand other programming languages (specifically C++ as I understand). NOW, a long time ago, I contributed by making a different toolBar stack (which was used by other people), and more recently I made a stack to muck around with both the menuBar and the toolBar stacks: while these are mainly cosmetic they can help people's work-flow. The first toolBar stack went the way of all flesh at about version 2.1 because of a general interface change. I would love to contribute a lot of stuff that I have stored on a variety of hard drivers that I have accumulated over the last 14 years or so: of varying utility - if I could find somewhere to store this online (at no cost to myself as I have NO money), and where people could get at it because it was properly publicised (perhaps via the LiveCode webpage) I would upload all of it is a shot. OH! Where is the unified IDE that was waved around during the Kickstarter thing, and doesn't seem to have come up on the 'Report Card'? Now, if, coupled with the Open Source release there had been some sort of details about how non-specialists could contribute that would have been a great help. Also, with the 'NON' nature of revOnline recently, and so on, a library of reusable stacks/code snippets that is freely and universally available has been a bit difficult . . . Also: the Profit Motive is very strong . . . let's see some incentives, however small, and that may drive user contributions up. After all, at Primary schools kids collect stars . . . > > I've contributed a tiny little bit to fix an IDE bug but that's about > as far as my own skills go. I wonder what made the folks at LiveCode think that there were lots of 'experts' lurking out "there", when most people either use LiveCode or use another language (such as C++) elsewhere? Richmond. > > > On 8/16/2015 3:07 PM, Roger Eller wrote: >> In my opinion, it was to give it a chance to grow, by incorporating >> other >> open tech, and also to just KEEP UP with the ever changing tech world >> without consuming the inadequate resources of the mother ship. >> On Aug 16, 2015 2:46 AM, "Terence Heaford" wrote: >> >>> >>>> On 16 Aug 2015, at 07:42, Kay C Lan wrote: >>>> >>>> I thought THE objective of the KickStarter Campaign was to make LC >>>> Open >>>> Source and Free to the Community. Wasn't that achieved? Everything >>>> else >>> was >>>> just secondary but in support of that goal. >>> >>> >>> Can you give us your opinion as to why LC was made Open Source? >>> >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> Terry >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Mon Aug 17 03:24:45 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 10:24:45 +0300 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: References: <43CD8158-FDFC-4DB0-A695-D8E8832C2E92@gmail.com> <414019AE-0C37-4A7A-97AD-70A6952C86B0@icloud.com> <55D101D3.6070207@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <55D18C3D.4050305@gmail.com> On 17/08/15 06:30, Roger Eller wrote: > I am surprised that anyone would expect a lot of coding help to rise out of > the LC community. Sure there are a few who have experience in the lower > level languages, but my sole reason in choosing LC was for the English-like > syntax. I don't know, nor do I want to learn C or Objective C or anything > else. I started with HC, and it ends with LC for me. > Very well put indeed. I didn't start with HC: I gave up computer programming for good because I really couldn't be bothered with Pascal, FORTRAN and so on. It was HC that got me going again. I took side trips to Toolbook and so on, but when I found LiveCode I felt I had 'come home', and I am, effectively, a one-trick pony nowadays. LiveCode used to claim (c.f. RR 1.1.1 handbook) that the whole of LiveCode was constructed in LiveCode . . . therefore, surely, we can also do further construction? Richmond. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Mon Aug 17 06:01:06 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 13:01:06 +0300 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: References: <43CD8158-FDFC-4DB0-A695-D8E8832C2E92@gmail.com> <414019AE-0C37-4A7A-97AD-70A6952C86B0@icloud.com> <55D101D3.6070207@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <55D1B0E2.6050708@gmail.com> On 17/08/15 09:22, Peter TB Brett wrote: > On 2015-08-17 04:30, Roger Eller wrote: >> I am surprised that anyone would expect a lot of coding help to rise >> out of >> the LC community. Sure there are a few who have experience in the lower >> level languages, but my sole reason in choosing LC was for the >> English-like >> syntax. I don't know, nor do I want to learn C or Objective C or >> anything >> else. I started with HC, and it ends with LC for me. > > One of the most important things that we are achieving with LiveCode > Builder is to make it possible to write LiveCode itself in LiveCode. +1 Although, as far as I understand the LIveCode builder language is different from the LiveCode standard language. > > We really want to enable people who know how to program in LiveCode to > extend and improve the LiveCode engine themselves, to add the features > they need and fix the bugs that affect them. LiveCode Builder is a key > milestone towards that goal. > > Peter > Richmond. From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Mon Aug 17 06:16:20 2015 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 12:16:20 +0200 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: <91eaf7e476f7eb2cd54c85a8b7ce6dd6@livecode.com> References: <43CD8158-FDFC-4DB0-A695-D8E8832C2E92@gmail.com> <414019AE-0C37-4A7A-97AD-70A6952C86B0@icloud.com> <55D101D3.6070207@hyperactivesw.com> <91eaf7e476f7eb2cd54c85a8b7ce6dd6@livecode.com> Message-ID: <55D1B474.9080401@economy-x-talk.com> "At the time of the Kickstarter campaign" was not made explicit. -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer KvK: 50277553 Installer Maker for LiveCode: http://qery.us/468 Buy my new book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner" http://qery.us/3fi LiveCode on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/runrev/ On 8/17/2015 08:44, Peter TB Brett wrote: > On 2015-08-17 06:43, John Dixon wrote: >>> Fully agreed. Which is why I hope the LC Team continue to focus on >>> their Commercial Customers and provide them with features that keep >>> them coming back. >>> >>> I think I've made it obvious I feel the LC Team should be cut some >>> slack and Commercial Customers deserve a feature set beyond just >>> locked code. >> >> The Kickstarter campaign announced a community version (open source) >> that would be the same as a commercial version (closed source) , less >> the ability to secure code ?... Why should that change ? > > Nothing has changed. > > The Kickstarter campaign (which was *well* before I joined the project) > announced an open source community version of LiveCode that would have > all the features that were in the commercial version **at the time of > the Kickstarter campaign**. As far as I have been able to tell, at no > point did RunRev rule out adding new, commercial-only features in the > future. > > Peter > From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Mon Aug 17 07:31:20 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 14:31:20 +0300 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: <55D1B474.9080401@economy-x-talk.com> References: <43CD8158-FDFC-4DB0-A695-D8E8832C2E92@gmail.com> <414019AE-0C37-4A7A-97AD-70A6952C86B0@icloud.com> <55D101D3.6070207@hyperactivesw.com> <91eaf7e476f7eb2cd54c85a8b7ce6dd6@livecode.com> <55D1B474.9080401@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: <55D1C608.8050308@gmail.com> On 17/08/15 13:16, Mark Schonewille wrote: > "At the time of the Kickstarter campaign" was not made explicit. +1 Indeed. > > -- > Best regards, > > Mark Schonewille > > Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering > Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com > Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer > KvK: 50277553 > > Installer Maker for LiveCode: > http://qery.us/468 > > Buy my new book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner" > http://qery.us/3fi > > LiveCode on Facebook: > https://www.facebook.com/groups/runrev/ > > On 8/17/2015 08:44, Peter TB Brett wrote: >> On 2015-08-17 06:43, John Dixon wrote: >>>> Fully agreed. Which is why I hope the LC Team continue to focus on >>>> their Commercial Customers and provide them with features that keep >>>> them coming back. >>>> >>>> I think I've made it obvious I feel the LC Team should be cut some >>>> slack and Commercial Customers deserve a feature set beyond just >>>> locked code. >>> >>> The Kickstarter campaign announced a community version (open source) >>> that would be the same as a commercial version (closed source) , less >>> the ability to secure code ?... Why should that change ? >> >> Nothing has changed. >> >> The Kickstarter campaign (which was *well* before I joined the project) >> announced an open source community version of LiveCode that would have >> all the features that were in the commercial version **at the time of >> the Kickstarter campaign**. As far as I have been able to tell, at no >> point did RunRev rule out adding new, commercial-only features in the >> future. >> >> Peter >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From feed at smpcsupport.com Mon Aug 17 09:16:41 2015 From: feed at smpcsupport.com (RunRevPlanet) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 23:16:41 +1000 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card Message-ID: <1439817401.55d1deb9e1946@www.server101.com> Thank you Richmond: > OH! Where is the unified IDE that was waved around > during the Kickstarter thing, and doesn't seem to > have come up on the 'Report Card'? During the Kickstarter Campaign it quite plainly says under the heading of, What is your money going toward? "We will introduce a new visual editor designed around today?s usability standards." And then under the next heading of, Technical Summary of Kickstarter Deliverables: "Create a new, beautiful graphical front-end for building your apps" Of all the goals in the Kickstarter project, this was *the* one that appealed to me the most. It has not been delivered, and based on the current LiveCode 8.0 DP and the rate of progress since the Kickstarter Campaign ended two years ago, I do not expect to see anything like what was shown halfway down this page: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1755283828/open-source-edition-of-livecode/description before late 2017 at the earliest. If the LiveCode team prove me wrong I will be delighted, but every time a new deal, project, or initiative is announced such as: "bring HTML5 Web Delivery to LiveCode" "one time opportunity to protect you against this and any future price rises" "a new Business Application Framework" I am reminded that I am still stuck with an awful IDE, when I thought I had already paid for something a whole lot better. If this is a rant then I am sorry, but a new IDE was a clearly stated goal of the Kickstarter Campaign and I don't think it gets mentioned enough in these discussions. -- Scott McDonald "Components, Controls, Tools and Resources for LiveCode" www.runrevplanet.com From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Mon Aug 17 09:31:09 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 16:31:09 +0300 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: <1439817401.55d1deb9e1946@www.server101.com> References: <1439817401.55d1deb9e1946@www.server101.com> Message-ID: <55D1E21D.30804@gmail.com> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1755283828/open-source-edition-of-livecode/description "Fall 2013 Final Delivery" 2 years behind completion. Richmond. From ray at linkit.com Mon Aug 17 08:44:37 2015 From: ray at linkit.com (Ray) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 14:44:37 +0200 Subject: Nice to Meet You! In-Reply-To: <6C9E3722-932C-4B1D-8A9E-01C1EDC6FFAE@canelasoftware.com> References: <553512B8.3090404@LinkIt.Com> <55352444.4070204@fourthworld.com> <55353B13.8060003@hyperactivesw.com> <55B796EE.1090700@LinkIt.Com> <55B7A761.5050107@LinkIt.Com> <55B7C1A1.900@LinkIt.Com> <6C9E3722-932C-4B1D-8A9E-01C1EDC6FFAE@canelasoftware.com> Message-ID: <55D1D735.6080702@LinkIt.Com> My wife and I are in Edinburgh over the weekend just to see Scotland's beautiful capital city. On our way to the airport today we to stopped by Livecode's office. I would have been happy just to say hello to Heather, probably the only staff member who might remember me from a conference years ago, but Ian spent five minutes or so and introduced me to the staff both upstairs and down. It was a real kick to meet Livecode's staff and see everybody working, especially Fraser who gave me a quick peek at his large monitor full of code which will become the much anticipated HTML5 release. For nearly two decades I've posted questions, bugs, and other issues on this site. Today's my opportunity to just say thanks to the Livecode team. It's really a great product. Nice to meet you! From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Aug 17 10:40:47 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 07:40:47 -0700 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: <1439817401.55d1deb9e1946@www.server101.com> References: <1439817401.55d1deb9e1946@www.server101.com> Message-ID: <55D1F26F.3090705@fourthworld.com> RunRevPlanet wrote: > Thank you Richmond: > >> OH! Where is the unified IDE that was waved around >> during the Kickstarter thing, and doesn't seem to >> have come up on the 'Report Card'? > > During the Kickstarter Campaign it quite plainly says under the heading of, What > is your money going toward? > > "We will introduce a new visual editor designed around today?s usability > standards." > > And then under the next heading of, Technical Summary of Kickstarter > Deliverables: > > "Create a new, beautiful graphical front-end for building your apps" > > Of all the goals in the Kickstarter project, this was *the* one that appealed to > me the most. Why? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Mon Aug 17 10:47:54 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 17:47:54 +0300 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: <55D1F26F.3090705@fourthworld.com> References: <1439817401.55d1deb9e1946@www.server101.com> <55D1F26F.3090705@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <55D1F41A.7030608@gmail.com> On 17/08/15 17:40, Richard Gaskin wrote: > RunRevPlanet wrote: > >> Thank you Richmond: >> >>> OH! Where is the unified IDE that was waved around >>> during the Kickstarter thing, and doesn't seem to >>> have come up on the 'Report Card'? >> >> During the Kickstarter Campaign it quite plainly says under the >> heading of, What >> is your money going toward? >> >> "We will introduce a new visual editor designed around today?s usability >> standards." >> >> And then under the next heading of, Technical Summary of Kickstarter >> Deliverables: >> >> "Create a new, beautiful graphical front-end for building your apps" >> >> Of all the goals in the Kickstarter project, this was *the* one that >> appealed to >> me the most. > > Why? > Having pointed out the new front-end I should perhaps state that I am 100% happy with the current one, and would be extremely disappointed if a new front-end were produced that did not allow users to choose the previous one as an option. The 'problem' is that that was a Kickstarter goal which has not materialised and appears to have been swept under the carpet. Richmond. From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Mon Aug 17 10:54:33 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 07:54:33 -0700 Subject: Nice to Meet You! In-Reply-To: <55D1D735.6080702@LinkIt.Com> References: <553512B8.3090404@LinkIt.Com> <55352444.4070204@fourthworld.com> <55353B13.8060003@hyperactivesw.com> <55B796EE.1090700@LinkIt.Com> <55B7A761.5050107@LinkIt.Com> <55B7C1A1.900@LinkIt.Com> <6C9E3722-932C-4B1D-8A9E-01C1EDC6FFAE@canelasoftware.com> <55D1D735.6080702@LinkIt.Com> Message-ID: <55D1F5A9.4040007@ahsoftware.net> On 08/17/2015 05:44 AM, Ray wrote: > My wife and I are in Edinburgh over the weekend just to see Scotland's > beautiful capital city. OMG! You're in Edinburgh during festival month and you're only staying for a weekend? -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From paul at researchware.com Mon Aug 17 10:55:08 2015 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 10:55:08 -0400 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: <55D1F41A.7030608@gmail.com> References: <1439817401.55d1deb9e1946@www.server101.com> <55D1F26F.3090705@fourthworld.com> <55D1F41A.7030608@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55D1F5CC.3030509@researchware.com> On 8/17/2015 10:47 AM, Richmond wrote: > On 17/08/15 17:40, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> RunRevPlanet wrote: >> >>> Thank you Richmond: >>> >>>> OH! Where is the unified IDE that was waved around >>>> during the Kickstarter thing, and doesn't seem to >>>> have come up on the 'Report Card'? >>> >>> During the Kickstarter Campaign it quite plainly says under the >>> heading of, What >>> is your money going toward? >>> >>> "We will introduce a new visual editor designed around today?s >>> usability >>> standards." >>> >>> And then under the next heading of, Technical Summary of Kickstarter >>> Deliverables: >>> >>> "Create a new, beautiful graphical front-end for building your apps" >>> >>> Of all the goals in the Kickstarter project, this was *the* one that >>> appealed to >>> me the most. >> >> Why? >> > > Having pointed out the new front-end I should perhaps state that I am > 100% > happy with the current one, and would be extremely disappointed if a > new front-end were produced > that did not allow users to choose the previous one as an option. > > The 'problem' is that that was a Kickstarter goal which has not > materialised and appears to have been > swept under the carpet. Irrespective of things taking longer that forecast (or desired), if I recall correctly, one of the prerequisites of the "new IDE" was the ability to display a stack in a area in another stack and this engine feature will only be available in the LC 8 series. From cs_livecode at icloud.com Mon Aug 17 11:14:07 2015 From: cs_livecode at icloud.com (Chris Sheffield) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 09:14:07 -0600 Subject: How to minimize delay when playing an audio clip In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <770CFAC8-D39A-4CA5-817D-1130CB193B69@icloud.com> Another trick that I?ve used in the past (when using players; I?ve haven?t used imported audio clips much) is to play a very short, silent audio file at some point in a preOpenCard or openCard handler. This kind of gets the audio ball rolling so to speak, then when I need to play my actual audio, there is no delay. Whatever needs to load in the background in order for audio playback has already loaded. A bit of a hack I suppose, but it works. :-) Chris -- Chris Sheffield Read Naturally, Inc. www.readnaturally.com > On Aug 15, 2015, at 11:52 AM, Mike Bonner wrote: > > I have an audio clip that I'm using as a sound effect. I try to trigger > the play start FIRST in my game loop, but no matter what methods I try > (even breaking it out of the game loop itself) there is a pretty hefty lag > time before it starts playing. Enough so that its possible to have an > event happen, and stop the play of the clip before it ever starts. > > I don't think i'm having issues with a bound cpu, I think 'play audioclip > "myclip" looping' is just that slow. If I hold the key down, it works > fine, animation keeps up, and stop is pretty much instantaneous. Is there > a way to get this working better? I'll try with an actual player next, but > I thought having the clip as part of the stack would provide the best > results. > > > Also, a quick question.. I assume there is no way to modify the tone of a > clip on the fly? IE: Simulate doppler shift.. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From prothero at earthednet.org Mon Aug 17 11:19:29 2015 From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 08:19:29 -0700 Subject: Bug getting group name, plse check In-Reply-To: <55D0B49F.1070400@fourthworld.com> References: <8F1224DA-0F8F-486A-AB82-204059790B3E@earthednet.org> <55D0B49F.1070400@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Folks: My initial comment arose because I, through searching the dictionary, couldn?t find how to get the group name of a control that was in a group. The best result I had was by searching with google. I could enter something like: ?How do I get the group name of the group that a control is within?? I got pointed to a forum post which got me started. Then Richard provided the final answer that let me know the critical word was ?owner?. I think it?s critical that every statement, property, command, be correctly entered in a dictionary. But, it can be impossible to guess the command that might be relevant for a specific operation and often it?s not intuitive. Google is my friend in this case, as is this list. Regarding tagging, searching, etc, I?ve experienced very primitive search boxes and they can be extremely primitive. (read useless almost). It is very difficult to build a great search system. Google has done that. It is possible to get Google to index web pages. Perhaps there should be thought given to taking advantage of Google search to get the context information that we need from the dictionary. I don?t know what would be involved in creating this, but it could be made much more useful than what we have now. BTW, for search phrases, the topic heading of emails to this list would be a great resource. However, unless there is some flexibility for variations in the search phrase in the search engine, the situation won?t improve. Everybody says things differently. Regards, Bill > On Aug 16, 2015, at 9:04 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > William Prothero wrote: > > Richard: > > This is an example of how difficult it can be to find docs on an > > operation that isn?t commonly used and that doesn?t have ?obvious? > > syntax. > ... > > Perhaps if there was a dictionary based, not on livecode commands, > > but on operations that the user wants to perform, with great search, > > it would be helpful. > > We definitely need tagging in the Dictionary, something I'll be pushing for as we finally get the ball rolling with the Community Documentation Team soon. > > With searchable tags anyone can add terms that will help others find relevant tokens. > > If you were able to add tags to the "owner" Dictionary entry, what would those be? What sorts of terms and concepts come to find when looking for ways to refer to objects in the message path? > > > > Then again, this list is a great source of this kind of info too. > > This list is great, and so are the forums, but IMO people rely on them sooner in the process than would be ideal. > > LiveCode is a very unusual language so it requires much care in how it's presented, and more importantly in it's indexed, so searches can be made for concepts and not just keywords. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > LiveCode Community Manager > richard at livecode.org > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ray at linkit.com Mon Aug 17 11:27:00 2015 From: ray at linkit.com (Ray Horsley) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 12:27:00 -0300 Subject: Nice to Meet You! In-Reply-To: <55D1F5A9.4040007@ahsoftware.net> References: <553512B8.3090404@LinkIt.Com> <55352444.4070204@fourthworld.com> <55353B13.8060003@hyperactivesw.com> <55B796EE.1090700@LinkIt.Com> <55B7A761.5050107@LinkIt.Com> <55B7C1A1.900@LinkIt.Com> <6C9E3722-932C-4B1D-8A9E-01C1EDC6FFAE@canelasoftware.com> <55D1D735.6080702@LinkIt.Com> <55D1F5A9.4040007@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: I know - but we sure enjoyed the weekend. On Aug 17, 2015 9:54 PM, "Mark Wieder" wrote: > On 08/17/2015 05:44 AM, Ray wrote: > > My wife and I are in Edinburgh over the weekend just to see Scotland's >> beautiful capital city. >> > > OMG! You're in Edinburgh during festival month and you're only staying for > a weekend? > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From prothero at earthednet.org Mon Aug 17 11:29:15 2015 From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 08:29:15 -0700 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: <55D1C608.8050308@gmail.com> References: <43CD8158-FDFC-4DB0-A695-D8E8832C2E92@gmail.com> <414019AE-0C37-4A7A-97AD-70A6952C86B0@icloud.com> <55D101D3.6070207@hyperactivesw.com> <91eaf7e476f7eb2cd54c85a8b7ce6dd6@livecode.com> <55D1B474.9080401@economy-x-talk.com> <55D1C608.8050308@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2197044D-903D-46C2-872A-C9E2E4BB93B8@earthednet.org> I contributed to kickstarter because I saw the vision of a reasonably priced authoring system that kept up with the always evolving technology. Some technologies are important to a few high level developers, while others become widely adopted, like pdf and zip. The idea that the livecode vision would be ?frozen in time? and future enhancements would be charged extra, certainly is contrary to what I had expected. I have the resources to pay for my authoring system. The opensource option will bring in new users, which is good. I want the mothership to be sustainable. However, I do think they will need to be strategic about what goes into the free and ?indie? versions and what they include in an enhanced version of some kind. If I have to buy a costly enhanced package to get widely standard capabilities like pdf and zip, I will not like it at all. Regards, Bill > On Aug 17, 2015, at 4:31 AM, Richmond wrote: > > On 17/08/15 13:16, Mark Schonewille wrote: >> "At the time of the Kickstarter campaign" was not made explicit. > +1 > > Indeed. > >> >> -- >> Best regards, >> >> Mark Schonewille >> >> Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering >> Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com >> Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer >> KvK: 50277553 >> >> Installer Maker for LiveCode: >> http://qery.us/468 >> >> Buy my new book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner" http://qery.us/3fi >> >> LiveCode on Facebook: >> https://www.facebook.com/groups/runrev/ >> >> On 8/17/2015 08:44, Peter TB Brett wrote: >>> On 2015-08-17 06:43, John Dixon wrote: >>>>> Fully agreed. Which is why I hope the LC Team continue to focus on >>>>> their Commercial Customers and provide them with features that keep >>>>> them coming back. >>>>> >>>>> I think I've made it obvious I feel the LC Team should be cut some >>>>> slack and Commercial Customers deserve a feature set beyond just >>>>> locked code. >>>> >>>> The Kickstarter campaign announced a community version (open source) >>>> that would be the same as a commercial version (closed source) , less >>>> the ability to secure code ?... Why should that change ? >>> >>> Nothing has changed. >>> >>> The Kickstarter campaign (which was *well* before I joined the project) >>> announced an open source community version of LiveCode that would have >>> all the features that were in the commercial version **at the time of >>> the Kickstarter campaign**. As far as I have been able to tell, at no >>> point did RunRev rule out adding new, commercial-only features in the >>> future. >>> >>> Peter >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bonnmike at gmail.com Mon Aug 17 11:39:53 2015 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 09:39:53 -0600 Subject: Bug getting group name, plse check In-Reply-To: References: <8F1224DA-0F8F-486A-AB82-204059790B3E@earthednet.org> <55D0B49F.1070400@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Its pretty easy to set up a custom search engine in google. I created a cse restricted to 4 sites. www.livecode.com forums.livecode.com lessons.livecode.com and the nabble site. I'm sure there are settings that might help it work better. Like all google search, you can improve results with quoted phrases etc. Heres a link to the one I set up. https://cse.google.com/cse/publicurl?cx=002762050828011275793:09mnfq5cmmy On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 9:19 AM, William Prothero wrote: > Folks: > My initial comment arose because I, through searching the dictionary, > couldn?t find how to get the group name of a control that was in a group. > The best result I had was by searching with google. I could enter something > like: ?How do I get the group name of the group that a control is within?? > I got pointed to a forum post which got me started. Then Richard provided > the final answer that let me know the critical word was ?owner?. > > I think it?s critical that every statement, property, command, be > correctly entered in a dictionary. But, it can be impossible to guess the > command that might be relevant for a specific operation and often it?s not > intuitive. Google is my friend in this case, as is this list. > > Regarding tagging, searching, etc, I?ve experienced very primitive search > boxes and they can be extremely primitive. (read useless almost). It is > very difficult to build a great search system. Google has done that. It is > possible to get Google to index web pages. Perhaps there should be thought > given to taking advantage of Google search to get the context information > that we need from the dictionary. > > I don?t know what would be involved in creating this, but it could be made > much more useful than what we have now. > > BTW, for search phrases, the topic heading of emails to this list would be > a great resource. However, unless there is some flexibility for variations > in the search phrase in the search engine, the situation won?t improve. > Everybody says things differently. > > Regards, > Bill > > > On Aug 16, 2015, at 9:04 AM, Richard Gaskin > wrote: > > > > William Prothero wrote: > > > Richard: > > > This is an example of how difficult it can be to find docs on an > > > operation that isn?t commonly used and that doesn?t have ?obvious? > > > syntax. > > ... > > > Perhaps if there was a dictionary based, not on livecode commands, > > > but on operations that the user wants to perform, with great search, > > > it would be helpful. > > > > We definitely need tagging in the Dictionary, something I'll be pushing > for as we finally get the ball rolling with the Community Documentation > Team soon. > > > > With searchable tags anyone can add terms that will help others find > relevant tokens. > > > > If you were able to add tags to the "owner" Dictionary entry, what would > those be? What sorts of terms and concepts come to find when looking for > ways to refer to objects in the message path? > > > > > > > Then again, this list is a great source of this kind of info too. > > > > This list is great, and so are the forums, but IMO people rely on them > sooner in the process than would be ideal. > > > > LiveCode is a very unusual language so it requires much care in how it's > presented, and more importantly in it's indexed, so searches can be made > for concepts and not just keywords. > > > > -- > > Richard Gaskin > > LiveCode Community Manager > > richard at livecode.org > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Mon Aug 17 11:59:48 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 15:59:48 +0000 Subject: Restore corrupted stack In-Reply-To: <55CF827B.7080203@hyperactivesw.com> References: <0FE26C6B-52A1-472A-9A7D-F5EF80C1913A@me.com> <55CF827B.7080203@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <7D08EBB6-2CCB-4A65-9CCF-8294E32E53F3@iotecdigital.com> This happened to me the first time I opened a stack in version 7. Check to see if there is a stack file with a tilde (~) in the name in the same folder as the original stack. When LC attempts to convert a stack, it saves the old stack using a tilde in the name so you can recover if something has gone horribly awry. This file can be renamed and opened in the old version of LC. If you can do all this, the next thing to do is subscribe to a decent cloud based backup system that has versioning, so you can recover in case things go catastrophically awry (not to be confused with horribly awry, which is not nearly as terrible as catastrophic). Bob S On Aug 15, 2015, at 11:18 , J. Landman Gay > wrote: On 8/14/2015 11:12 PM, Peter Bogdanoff wrote: Yes, I understand the change in stack format. Unfortunately the stack won?t open in any version of LC 7. I always get the stack corrupted dialog. In that case I think the team would like to see the stack, so it's probably time for a bug report. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Aug 17 12:01:52 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 09:01:52 -0700 Subject: Bug getting group name, plse check In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55D20570.6090000@fourthworld.com> William Prothero wrote: > Regarding tagging, searching, etc, I?ve experienced very primitive > search boxes and they can be extremely primitive. (read useless > almost). It is very difficult to build a great search system. Google > has done that. It is possible to get Google to index web pages. > Perhaps there should be thought given to taking advantage of Google > search to get the context information that we need from the > dictionary. The degree of difficulty in delivering good search results is in proportion to the conceptual range of queries and the size of the data being searched. If we want to provide accurate search results for everything from "arrayEncode" to "Britney Spears", and do so across billions of Web pages, best leave that to the pros. But to search for terms related to LiveCode keywords is a much smaller problem, both in conceptual scope and index size. Besdies, with LiveCode we need an embedded search engine, something small and nimble enough to be usable on any computer even when not connected to the Internet. The scripts for indexing and retrieving content isn't the hard part. The hard part is prioritizing it so it gets done. Truly great indexing can be a lifetime's work; indeed for many it is. But our needs are so modest, and our current search so limited, that even just a non-stemmed full-text index of the current Dictionary, with extra weight for token names, would satisfy a majority of requests quite well using data already in hand and reasonably simple scripts. If we then add crowd-source tags, the index would get ever smarter over time with minimal scripting effort. -- Richard Gaskin LiveCode Community Manager richard at livecode.org From devin_asay at byu.edu Mon Aug 17 12:17:31 2015 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 16:17:31 +0000 Subject: mouse pointer hot spot is way off In-Reply-To: <93B3AE25-AC20-4998-A7BF-A935E6B636BD@swcp.com> References: <93B3AE25-AC20-4998-A7BF-A935E6B636BD@swcp.com> Message-ID: > On Aug 15, 2015, at 8:37 AM, Dar Scott wrote: > > Hi, I?m an old-timer who has been away from the list for a while. > > I?ve run into a problem and I think it is a LiveCode problem but it might be an OS X problem or some combination. > > I?m using 6.7.5. > > Very often the hot spot is off, usually about 50-100 pixels high, for one or more windows in the IDE. I usually notice it in the editor where it is off by 3 lines. Almost always it is just vertical. > > It also happens in my stacks. > > This only applies to content, not the title bar or the menu along the top. > > I wasn?t able to find anything among the bugs. > > It might have been coincidence but one time it didn?t go away until I rebooted. I was on Mavericks but now am on Yosemite and still see it. > > Insight? Anybody else seen this? Or is this old news? Hi Dar, I have seen this and can reproduce it reliably. On a Mac, if you have two monitors (or more I suppose), and you open a script editor window, it initially opens on the same screen as your LiveCode IDE; on the "main screen? as determined by the OS. After that I typically move the script editor window to the second monitor. I find that if the top of the script editor window is higher than the tool bar on the main screen, I get this hot spot offset problem. Once I move the window downward on the second monitor it goes away. I ought to have reported it, but I?ve gotten to where I automatically just move the window down to avoid the problem. Does this seem to be the same thing you?re getting? Devin Devin Asay Office of Digital Humanities Brigham Young University From pete at lcsql.com Mon Aug 17 12:29:11 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 16:29:11 +0000 Subject: Bug getting group name, plse check In-Reply-To: <55D20570.6090000@fourthworld.com> References: <55D20570.6090000@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Bj?rnke's Docu2 dictionary tool. On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 9:02 AM Richard Gaskin wrote: > William Prothero wrote: > > > Regarding tagging, searching, etc, I?ve experienced very primitive > > search boxes and they can be extremely primitive. (read useless > > almost). It is very difficult to build a great search system. Google > > has done that. It is possible to get Google to index web pages. > > Perhaps there should be thought given to taking advantage of Google > > search to get the context information that we need from the > > dictionary. > > The degree of difficulty in delivering good search results is in > proportion to the conceptual range of queries and the size of the data > being searched. > > If we want to provide accurate search results for everything from > "arrayEncode" to "Britney Spears", and do so across billions of Web > pages, best leave that to the pros. > > But to search for terms related to LiveCode keywords is a much smaller > problem, both in conceptual scope and index size. > > Besdies, with LiveCode we need an embedded search engine, something > small and nimble enough to be usable on any computer even when not > connected to the Internet. > > The scripts for indexing and retrieving content isn't the hard part. > The hard part is prioritizing it so it gets done. > > Truly great indexing can be a lifetime's work; indeed for many it is. > > But our needs are so modest, and our current search so limited, that > even just a non-stemmed full-text index of the current Dictionary, with > extra weight for token names, would satisfy a majority of requests quite > well using data already in hand and reasonably simple scripts. > > If we then add crowd-source tags, the index would get ever smarter over > time with minimal scripting effort. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > LiveCode Community Manager > richard at livecode.org > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From userev at canelasoftware.com Mon Aug 17 13:04:56 2015 From: userev at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 10:04:56 -0700 Subject: mouse pointer hot spot is way off In-Reply-To: References: <93B3AE25-AC20-4998-A7BF-A935E6B636BD@swcp.com> Message-ID: > On Aug 17, 2015, at 9:17 AM, Devin Asay wrote: > > >> On Aug 15, 2015, at 8:37 AM, Dar Scott wrote: >> >> Hi, I?m an old-timer who has been away from the list for a while. >> >> I?ve run into a problem and I think it is a LiveCode problem but it might be an OS X problem or some combination. >> >> I?m using 6.7.5. >> >> Very often the hot spot is off, usually about 50-100 pixels high, for one or more windows in the IDE. I usually notice it in the editor where it is off by 3 lines. Almost always it is just vertical. >> >> It also happens in my stacks. >> >> This only applies to content, not the title bar or the menu along the top. >> >> I wasn?t able to find anything among the bugs. >> >> It might have been coincidence but one time it didn?t go away until I rebooted. I was on Mavericks but now am on Yosemite and still see it. >> >> Insight? Anybody else seen this? Or is this old news? > > Hi Dar, > > I have seen this and can reproduce it reliably. On a Mac, if you have two monitors (or more I suppose), and you open a script editor window, it initially opens on the same screen as your LiveCode IDE; on the "main screen? as determined by the OS. After that I typically move the script editor window to the second monitor. I find that if the top of the script editor window is higher than the tool bar on the main screen, I get this hot spot offset problem. Once I move the window downward on the second monitor it goes away. I ought to have reported it, but I?ve gotten to where I automatically just move the window down to avoid the problem. > > Does this seem to be the same thing you?re getting? Could be related to bug: http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15366 Best regards, Mark Talluto canelasoftware.com CassiaDB: The easy to use, free local storage database made for LiveCode Developers: livecloud.io From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Aug 17 13:39:25 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 12:39:25 -0500 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: <2197044D-903D-46C2-872A-C9E2E4BB93B8@earthednet.org> References: <43CD8158-FDFC-4DB0-A695-D8E8832C2E92@gmail.com> <414019AE-0C37-4A7A-97AD-70A6952C86B0@icloud.com> <55D101D3.6070207@hyperactivesw.com> <91eaf7e476f7eb2cd54c85a8b7ce6dd6@livecode.com> <55D1B474.9080401@economy-x-talk.com> <55D1C608.8050308@gmail.com> <2197044D-903D-46C2-872A-C9E2E4BB93B8@earthednet.org> Message-ID: <55D21C4D.800@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/17/2015 10:29 AM, William Prothero wrote: > The idea that the livecode vision would be ?frozen in time? and future > enhancements would be charged extra, certainly is contrary to what I > had expected. If we're talking about the BAF, I think people are still missing the key info Brett provided. The BAF is not the same product as the current LiveCode. It is a new addition that doesn't work with existing stacks, targeted to a different user base. It doesn't affect either Indy users or open source users, which remain in sync. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From prothero at earthednet.org Mon Aug 17 13:51:06 2015 From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 10:51:06 -0700 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: <55D21C4D.800@hyperactivesw.com> References: <43CD8158-FDFC-4DB0-A695-D8E8832C2E92@gmail.com> <414019AE-0C37-4A7A-97AD-70A6952C86B0@icloud.com> <55D101D3.6070207@hyperactivesw.com> <91eaf7e476f7eb2cd54c85a8b7ce6dd6@livecode.com> <55D1B474.9080401@economy-x-talk.com> <55D1C608.8050308@gmail.com> <2197044D-903D-46C2-872A-C9E2E4BB93B8@earthednet.org> <55D21C4D.800@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Jackie: I?m not at all concerned about the BAF. Perhaps I?ve missed some critical info, but comments have been made about zip and pdf support perhaps not being in the indie versions. This would trouble me. They seem like the kind of widely used technology that would attract serious developers, who are not yet at the BAF level of need, to Livecode. Regards, Bill > On Aug 17, 2015, at 10:39 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > > On 8/17/2015 10:29 AM, William Prothero wrote: >> The idea that the livecode vision would be ?frozen in time? and future >> enhancements would be charged extra, certainly is contrary to what I >> had expected. > > If we're talking about the BAF, I think people are still missing the key info Brett provided. The BAF is not the same product as the current LiveCode. It is a new addition that doesn't work with existing stacks, targeted to a different user base. > > It doesn't affect either Indy users or open source users, which remain in sync. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Aug 17 14:13:16 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 11:13:16 -0700 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55D2243C.8020500@fourthworld.com> William Prothero wrote: > I?m not at all concerned about the BAF. Perhaps I?ve missed some > critical info, but comments have been made about zip and pdf support > perhaps not being in the indie versions. This would trouble me. What troubles me is how hearsay like that gets started, and then how it grows. Zip compression is available in all LiveCode editions, and as Kevin's said they're not going to be taking features out of editions they're currently available in. PDF generation is also available in all LiveCode editions. PDF on-screen rendering is not available in any LiveCode edition, and I don't recall seeing it on either the Kickstarter stretch goals or either of the two emails this quarter about new proprietary-only features. Did I miss something? There are many great things about communities, but one drawback is that it takes a community to play the game of "Telephone" :) -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From t.heaford at icloud.com Mon Aug 17 14:33:32 2015 From: t.heaford at icloud.com (Terence Heaford) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 19:33:32 +0100 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: <55D2243C.8020500@fourthworld.com> References: <55D2243C.8020500@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <24D1B948-B152-4C9C-9AF4-0E2C1B7F6D4B@icloud.com> > On 17 Aug 2015, at 19:13, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > and I don't recall seeing it on either the Kickstarter stretch goals Are we to conclude form all these type of comments that if it was not in the KickStarter Stretch goals then it?s fair game to be omitted from future Open Source releases and included in future Commercial releases? All the best Terry From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Aug 17 14:41:26 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 13:41:26 -0500 Subject: JSON, URL-encode, and UTF-8 Message-ID: <55D22AD6.60203@hyperactivesw.com> I've confused myself. I need to send JSON to a server. The values will have foreign characters in them. So I think I need to use textEncode to convert it to UTF8 and also it needs to be URL encoded. Is that right? And if so, what order do I do it in? Do I URL-encode each value in the array, then create the JSON, then textEncode that? Or some other order? Or does textEncoding remove the need to URL encode? -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From prothero at earthednet.org Mon Aug 17 14:47:12 2015 From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 11:47:12 -0700 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: <24D1B948-B152-4C9C-9AF4-0E2C1B7F6D4B@icloud.com> References: <55D2243C.8020500@fourthworld.com> <24D1B948-B152-4C9C-9AF4-0E2C1B7F6D4B@icloud.com> Message-ID: <7DF40E1B-2CF8-46D4-AE00-3BE7D0C13046@earthednet.org> Terry: This was my concern. Richard: Thanks for clarifying. Sorry if I spread mis-information. But I did read it, so the clarification is helpful, and appropriate (at least for me). Regards, Bill > On Aug 17, 2015, at 11:33 AM, Terence Heaford wrote: > > >> On 17 Aug 2015, at 19:13, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> >> and I don't recall seeing it on either the Kickstarter stretch goals > > > Are we to conclude form all these type of comments that if it was not in the KickStarter Stretch goals then it?s fair game to be omitted from future Open Source releases and included in future Commercial releases? > > > All the best > > Terry > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mcgrath3 at mac.com Mon Aug 17 15:18:02 2015 From: mcgrath3 at mac.com (Thomas McGrath III) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 15:18:02 -0400 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: <7DF40E1B-2CF8-46D4-AE00-3BE7D0C13046@earthednet.org> References: <55D2243C.8020500@fourthworld.com> <24D1B948-B152-4C9C-9AF4-0E2C1B7F6D4B@icloud.com> <7DF40E1B-2CF8-46D4-AE00-3BE7D0C13046@earthednet.org> Message-ID: I haven?t posted in a long long time and I have a question. I just reread the entire Kickstarter Campaign promises and they state very clearly that IOS deployment is included in the open source edition "It will run on every popular platform and device.? and ?...running on six platforms - Windows, Mac, Linux, iOS, Android and Server? but on the new livecode pricing page it states that ?Note: IOS deployment is not included in the open source edition?. I am really confused by this and was wondering which is true. I have always paid for and had the biggest commercial version available and will probably buy into the Indie version once they are up, but I convinced a lot of people to contribute to the Campaign and am wondering if I owe them all apologies. Tom McGrath > On Aug 17, 2015, at 2:47 PM, William Prothero wrote: > > Terry: > This was my concern. > > Richard: > Thanks for clarifying. Sorry if I spread mis-information. But I did read it, so the clarification is helpful, and appropriate (at least for me). > Regards, > Bill > >> On Aug 17, 2015, at 11:33 AM, Terence Heaford wrote: >> >> >>> On 17 Aug 2015, at 19:13, Richard Gaskin wrote: >>> >>> and I don't recall seeing it on either the Kickstarter stretch goals >> >> >> Are we to conclude form all these type of comments that if it was not in the KickStarter Stretch goals then it?s fair game to be omitted from future Open Source releases and included in future Commercial releases? >> >> >> All the best >> >> Terry >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Mon Aug 17 15:28:43 2015 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 15:28:43 -0400 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: References: <55D2243C.8020500@fourthworld.com> <24D1B948-B152-4C9C-9AF4-0E2C1B7F6D4B@icloud.com> <7DF40E1B-2CF8-46D4-AE00-3BE7D0C13046@earthednet.org> Message-ID: <003c01d0d922$ee3572a0$caa057e0$@net> Tom, It's an Apple's restriction. Although you can generate and test Open Source iOS apps you can't submit them to the iStore. Apple does not approve open source apps. I'm not sure if the iOS option is disabled on the community version, but I don?t think so. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Thomas McGrath III Sent: Monday, August 17, 2015 3:18 PM To: How to use LiveCode Subject: Re: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card I haven?t posted in a long long time and I have a question. I just reread the entire Kickstarter Campaign promises and they state very clearly that IOS deployment is included in the open source edition "It will run on every popular platform and device.? and ?...running on six platforms - Windows, Mac, Linux, iOS, Android and Server? but on the new livecode pricing page it states that ?Note: IOS deployment is not included in the open source edition?. I am really confused by this and was wondering which is true. I have always paid for and had the biggest commercial version available and will probably buy into the Indie version once they are up, but I convinced a lot of people to contribute to the Campaign and am wondering if I owe them all apologies. Tom McGrath > On Aug 17, 2015, at 2:47 PM, William Prothero wrote: > > Terry: > This was my concern. > > Richard: > Thanks for clarifying. Sorry if I spread mis-information. But I did read it, so the clarification is helpful, and appropriate (at least for me). > Regards, > Bill > >> On Aug 17, 2015, at 11:33 AM, Terence Heaford wrote: >> >> >>> On 17 Aug 2015, at 19:13, Richard Gaskin wrote: >>> >>> and I don't recall seeing it on either the Kickstarter stretch goals >> >> >> Are we to conclude form all these type of comments that if it was not in the KickStarter Stretch goals then it?s fair game to be omitted from future Open Source releases and included in future Commercial releases? >> >> >> All the best >> >> Terry >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From kevin at runrev.com Mon Aug 17 15:28:24 2015 From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 20:28:24 +0100 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: References: <55D2243C.8020500@fourthworld.com> <24D1B948-B152-4C9C-9AF4-0E2C1B7F6D4B@icloud.com> <7DF40E1B-2CF8-46D4-AE00-3BE7D0C13046@earthednet.org> Message-ID: <5BF16F43-A695-4778-98DD-9C0EBD4FAE74@runrev.com> As we've said, we aren't removing anything. You've always been able to build for iOS in Community. The fact you can't deploy to the store is down to Apple's licensing incompatibility with the GPL, nothing to do with us and no change there on our part. > On 17 Aug 2015, at 20:18, Thomas McGrath III wrote: > > I haven?t posted in a long long time and I have a question. > > I just reread the entire Kickstarter Campaign promises and they state very clearly that IOS deployment is included in the open source edition "It will run on every popular platform and device.? and ?...running on six platforms - Windows, Mac, Linux, iOS, Android and Server? but on the new livecode pricing page it states that ?Note: IOS deployment is not included in the open source edition?. > > I am really confused by this and was wondering which is true. I have always paid for and had the biggest commercial version available and will probably buy into the Indie version once they are up, but I convinced a lot of people to contribute to the Campaign and am wondering if I owe them all apologies. > > Tom McGrath > > > >> On Aug 17, 2015, at 2:47 PM, William Prothero wrote: >> >> Terry: >> This was my concern. >> >> Richard: >> Thanks for clarifying. Sorry if I spread mis-information. But I did read it, so the clarification is helpful, and appropriate (at least for me). >> Regards, >> Bill >> >>> On Aug 17, 2015, at 11:33 AM, Terence Heaford wrote: >>> >>> >>>> On 17 Aug 2015, at 19:13, Richard Gaskin wrote: >>>> >>>> and I don't recall seeing it on either the Kickstarter stretch goals >>> >>> >>> Are we to conclude form all these type of comments that if it was not in the KickStarter Stretch goals then it?s fair game to be omitted from future Open Source releases and included in future Commercial releases? >>> >>> >>> All the best >>> >>> Terry >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dsc at swcp.com Mon Aug 17 15:31:50 2015 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 13:31:50 -0600 Subject: mouse pointer hot spot is way off In-Reply-To: References: <93B3AE25-AC20-4998-A7BF-A935E6B636BD@swcp.com> Message-ID: <1516C2B5-B6B2-47E9-9B73-DD26C8AB7551@swcp.com> Yay! That?s it. Second monitor with top above the main monitor with LiveCode window top above the same thing. This might be a bad fix for another bug, the one that blocks a stack from going higher than the tool bar. I know how it is about having work to get done and repeating little workarounds rather than reporting a bug. If you don?t report it, I?ll report it or add it to the other bug. Dar > On Aug 17, 2015, at 10:17 AM, Devin Asay wrote: > > >> On Aug 15, 2015, at 8:37 AM, Dar Scott wrote: >> >> Hi, I?m an old-timer who has been away from the list for a while. >> >> I?ve run into a problem and I think it is a LiveCode problem but it might be an OS X problem or some combination. >> >> I?m using 6.7.5. >> >> Very often the hot spot is off, usually about 50-100 pixels high, for one or more windows in the IDE. I usually notice it in the editor where it is off by 3 lines. Almost always it is just vertical. >> >> It also happens in my stacks. >> >> This only applies to content, not the title bar or the menu along the top. >> >> I wasn?t able to find anything among the bugs. >> >> It might have been coincidence but one time it didn?t go away until I rebooted. I was on Mavericks but now am on Yosemite and still see it. >> >> Insight? Anybody else seen this? Or is this old news? > > Hi Dar, > > I have seen this and can reproduce it reliably. On a Mac, if you have two monitors (or more I suppose), and you open a script editor window, it initially opens on the same screen as your LiveCode IDE; on the "main screen? as determined by the OS. After that I typically move the script editor window to the second monitor. I find that if the top of the script editor window is higher than the tool bar on the main screen, I get this hot spot offset problem. Once I move the window downward on the second monitor it goes away. I ought to have reported it, but I?ve gotten to where I automatically just move the window down to avoid the problem. > > Does this seem to be the same thing you?re getting? > > Devin > > > > Devin Asay > Office of Digital Humanities > Brigham Young University > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From mcgrath3 at mac.com Mon Aug 17 15:32:33 2015 From: mcgrath3 at mac.com (Thomas McGrath III) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 15:32:33 -0400 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: <5BF16F43-A695-4778-98DD-9C0EBD4FAE74@runrev.com> References: <55D2243C.8020500@fourthworld.com> <24D1B948-B152-4C9C-9AF4-0E2C1B7F6D4B@icloud.com> <7DF40E1B-2CF8-46D4-AE00-3BE7D0C13046@earthednet.org> <5BF16F43-A695-4778-98DD-9C0EBD4FAE74@runrev.com> Message-ID: Ralph, Thanks for clarifying that. Kevin, That?s why I asked first before assuming. Thanks for clarifying as well. (Might want to include something to that affect on the pricing page.) Back to my woodwork. Tom > On Aug 17, 2015, at 3:28 PM, Kevin Miller wrote: > > As we've said, we aren't removing anything. You've always been able to build for iOS in Community. The fact you can't deploy to the store is down to Apple's licensing incompatibility with the GPL, nothing to do with us and no change there on our part. > >> On 17 Aug 2015, at 20:18, Thomas McGrath III wrote: >> >> I haven?t posted in a long long time and I have a question. >> >> I just reread the entire Kickstarter Campaign promises and they state very clearly that IOS deployment is included in the open source edition "It will run on every popular platform and device.? and ?...running on six platforms - Windows, Mac, Linux, iOS, Android and Server? but on the new livecode pricing page it states that ?Note: IOS deployment is not included in the open source edition?. >> >> I am really confused by this and was wondering which is true. I have always paid for and had the biggest commercial version available and will probably buy into the Indie version once they are up, but I convinced a lot of people to contribute to the Campaign and am wondering if I owe them all apologies. >> >> Tom McGrath >> >> >> >>> On Aug 17, 2015, at 2:47 PM, William Prothero wrote: >>> >>> Terry: >>> This was my concern. >>> >>> Richard: >>> Thanks for clarifying. Sorry if I spread mis-information. But I did read it, so the clarification is helpful, and appropriate (at least for me). >>> Regards, >>> Bill >>> >>>> On Aug 17, 2015, at 11:33 AM, Terence Heaford wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 17 Aug 2015, at 19:13, Richard Gaskin wrote: >>>>> >>>>> and I don't recall seeing it on either the Kickstarter stretch goals >>>> >>>> >>>> Are we to conclude form all these type of comments that if it was not in the KickStarter Stretch goals then it?s fair game to be omitted from future Open Source releases and included in future Commercial releases? >>>> >>>> >>>> All the best >>>> >>>> Terry >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Mon Aug 17 15:43:24 2015 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 15:43:24 -0400 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: <5BF16F43-A695-4778-98DD-9C0EBD4FAE74@runrev.com> References: <55D2243C.8020500@fourthworld.com> <24D1B948-B152-4C9C-9AF4-0E2C1B7F6D4B@icloud.com> <7DF40E1B-2CF8-46D4-AE00-3BE7D0C13046@earthednet.org> <5BF16F43-A695-4778-98DD-9C0EBD4FAE74@runrev.com> Message-ID: So, with an Apple personal developer license (the new free one), you can use the LC Community version to deploy and test on a personal iOS device? I think the answer is yes, right? ~Roger On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 3:28 PM, Kevin Miller wrote: > As we've said, we aren't removing anything. You've always been able to > build for iOS in Community. The fact you can't deploy to the store is down > to Apple's licensing incompatibility with the GPL, nothing to do with us > and no change there on our part. > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Aug 17 15:43:50 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 12:43:50 -0700 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: <24D1B948-B152-4C9C-9AF4-0E2C1B7F6D4B@icloud.com> References: <24D1B948-B152-4C9C-9AF4-0E2C1B7F6D4B@icloud.com> Message-ID: <55D23976.8020408@fourthworld.com> Terence Heaford wrote: >> On 17 Aug 2015, at 19:13, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> >> and I don't recall seeing it on either the Kickstarter stretch goals > > Are we to conclude form all these type of comments that if it was not > in the KickStarter Stretch goals then it?s fair game to be omitted > from future Open Source releases and included in future Commercial > releases? I think it would be wisest to avoid assumptions altogether. There are already features in both the open source and proprietary editions that weren't among the Kickstarter goals, so the assumption you suggest would be incorrect out of the starting gate. And on the other hand, there are now add-ons in the proprietary edition which are not in the open source edition, so assuming the other direction would be equally incorrect. Rather than attempt to decide all the future possibilities in broad strokes, it seems best to evaluate each moment as it unfolds. There are reasons to believe the company is in earnest about its open source endeavors, and reasons to believe that certain add-ons may be beneficial for both editions if the company is able to derive value from them through proprietary per-user licensing. Personally I have my doubts about the realizable value of such things being sufficiently compelling over the long haul in the particular way they're currently pursued, so I don't expect this to be a major trend. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From dsc at swcp.com Mon Aug 17 16:12:00 2015 From: dsc at swcp.com (Dar Scott) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 14:12:00 -0600 Subject: mouse pointer hot spot is way off In-Reply-To: References: <93B3AE25-AC20-4998-A7BF-A935E6B636BD@swcp.com> Message-ID: Mark wrote, > Could be related to bug: http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15366 I wonder if it is related to bug that existed at one time where one couldn?t drag a LiveCode window on a second monitor above the top of the main monitor. I have a vague memory that Hans had problems with that, too, so he might be able to put his finger on it. Ah, bug 8934 (#1). Runners up and maybe related: bug 4174, bug 12270. bug 9304, bug 15373, bug 7010 I am so happy there is a workaround. Just move the window down a bit. Ha! Dar > On Aug 17, 2015, at 11:04 AM, Mark Talluto wrote: > > >> On Aug 17, 2015, at 9:17 AM, Devin Asay wrote: >> >> >>> On Aug 15, 2015, at 8:37 AM, Dar Scott wrote: >>> >>> Hi, I?m an old-timer who has been away from the list for a while. >>> >>> I?ve run into a problem and I think it is a LiveCode problem but it might be an OS X problem or some combination. >>> >>> I?m using 6.7.5. >>> >>> Very often the hot spot is off, usually about 50-100 pixels high, for one or more windows in the IDE. I usually notice it in the editor where it is off by 3 lines. Almost always it is just vertical. >>> >>> It also happens in my stacks. >>> >>> This only applies to content, not the title bar or the menu along the top. >>> >>> I wasn?t able to find anything among the bugs. >>> >>> It might have been coincidence but one time it didn?t go away until I rebooted. I was on Mavericks but now am on Yosemite and still see it. >>> >>> Insight? Anybody else seen this? Or is this old news? >> >> Hi Dar, >> >> I have seen this and can reproduce it reliably. On a Mac, if you have two monitors (or more I suppose), and you open a script editor window, it initially opens on the same screen as your LiveCode IDE; on the "main screen? as determined by the OS. After that I typically move the script editor window to the second monitor. I find that if the top of the script editor window is higher than the tool bar on the main screen, I get this hot spot offset problem. Once I move the window downward on the second monitor it goes away. I ought to have reported it, but I?ve gotten to where I automatically just move the window down to avoid the problem. >> >> Does this seem to be the same thing you?re getting? > > Could be related to bug: http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15366 > > > > > Best regards, > > Mark Talluto > canelasoftware.com > > CassiaDB: The easy to use, free local storage database made for LiveCode Developers: livecloud.io > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From monte at sweattechnologies.com Mon Aug 17 16:28:09 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 06:28:09 +1000 Subject: JSON, URL-encode, and UTF-8 In-Reply-To: <55D22AD6.60203@hyperactivesw.com> References: <55D22AD6.60203@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <735102C1-7509-4F51-9B45-1F0FE4722712@sweattechnologies.com> I think we would need to see the API to know about the urlEncoding. Is it a parameter in your query string? If you need to urlEncode it will be the last thing you do. If you are using one of the script libraries the UTF8 encoding may be done for you. If you are using mergJSON then UTF8 encode anything that's not ASCII before you JSON encode. Cheers Monte Sent from my iPhone > On 18 Aug 2015, at 4:41 am, J. Landman Gay wrote: > > I've confused myself. I need to send JSON to a server. The values will have foreign characters in them. So I think I need to use textEncode to convert it to UTF8 and also it needs to be URL encoded. Is that right? And if so, what order do I do it in? > > Do I URL-encode each value in the array, then create the JSON, then textEncode that? Or some other order? Or does textEncoding remove the need to URL encode? From userev at canelasoftware.com Mon Aug 17 16:41:10 2015 From: userev at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 13:41:10 -0700 Subject: mouse pointer hot spot is way off In-Reply-To: References: <93B3AE25-AC20-4998-A7BF-A935E6B636BD@swcp.com> Message-ID: > On Aug 17, 2015, at 1:12 PM, Dar Scott > wrote: > > Mark wrote, >> Could be related to bug: http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15366 > > > > I wonder if it is related to bug that existed at one time where one couldn?t drag a LiveCode window on a second monitor above the top of the main monitor. I have a vague memory that Hans had problems with that, too, so he might be able to put his finger on it. Ah, bug 8934 (#1). > > Runners up and maybe related: bug 4174, bug 12270. bug 9304, bug 15373, bug 7010 > > I am so happy there is a workaround. Just move the window down a bit. Ha! > > Dar It is a bit of a pain. The LiveCode team has confirmed the bug. Just waiting for the fix now. Best regards, Mark Talluto canelasoftware.com CassiaDB: The easy to use, free local storage database made for LiveCode Developers: livecloud.io From monte at sweattechnologies.com Mon Aug 17 16:41:27 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 06:41:27 +1000 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: <55D2243C.8020500@fourthworld.com> References: <55D2243C.8020500@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <81EA18CC-CB14-4322-8117-6CA4C0DF1894@sweattechnologies.com> > On 18 Aug 2015, at 4:13 am, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > PDF on-screen rendering is not available in any LiveCode edition, and I don't recall seeing it on either the Kickstarter stretch goals or either of the two emails this quarter about new proprietary-only features. So a PDF widget isn?t a Business only license? I?m hoping they release one to community because I have a client that will probably pay me to add any extra features they need that don?t come standard like text selection and extraction. Not really a huge issue as we could just write the widget from scratch but then we would need to decide what to do with it etc... From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Aug 17 16:47:53 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 13:47:53 -0700 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: <81EA18CC-CB14-4322-8117-6CA4C0DF1894@sweattechnologies.com> References: <81EA18CC-CB14-4322-8117-6CA4C0DF1894@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <55D24879.8090103@fourthworld.com> Monte Goulding wrote: > So a PDF widget isn?t a Business only license? There's a PDF widget? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From monte at sweattechnologies.com Mon Aug 17 16:49:10 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 06:49:10 +1000 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: <2197044D-903D-46C2-872A-C9E2E4BB93B8@earthednet.org> References: <43CD8158-FDFC-4DB0-A695-D8E8832C2E92@gmail.com> <414019AE-0C37-4A7A-97AD-70A6952C86B0@icloud.com> <55D101D3.6070207@hyperactivesw.com> <91eaf7e476f7eb2cd54c85a8b7ce6dd6@livecode.com> <55D1B474.9080401@economy-x-talk.com> <55D1C608.8050308@gmail.com> <2197044D-903D-46C2-872A-C9E2E4BB93B8@earthednet.org> Message-ID: <273DE6F5-CF46-4FC0-845C-23FC212D0FF4@sweattechnologies.com> > On 18 Aug 2015, at 1:29 am, William Prothero wrote: > > I contributed to kickstarter because I saw the vision of a reasonably priced authoring system that kept up with the always evolving technology. Some technologies are important to a few high level developers, while others become widely adopted, like pdf and zip. The idea that the livecode vision would be ?frozen in time? and future enhancements would be charged extra, certainly is contrary to what I had expected. I don?t think anyone believes that LC community will be frozen in time. Indeed anyone interested in LC community should be encouraging Kevin to run as hard as possible and use whatever means necessary to capture the business market. These are the guys that will pay for a coder on staff to sit around adding any features they need to the engine and sorting out any blocker bugs. All of that gets contributed back to the engine. Not to mention that they will have a team of coders that will need high end licenses. From monte at sweattechnologies.com Mon Aug 17 16:51:01 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 06:51:01 +1000 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: <55D24879.8090103@fourthworld.com> References: <81EA18CC-CB14-4322-8117-6CA4C0DF1894@sweattechnologies.com> <55D24879.8090103@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: > On 18 Aug 2015, at 6:47 am, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > There's a PDF widget? I believe there?s one in development based on PDFium From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Aug 17 16:54:57 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 15:54:57 -0500 Subject: JSON, URL-encode, and UTF-8 In-Reply-To: <735102C1-7509-4F51-9B45-1F0FE4722712@sweattechnologies.com> References: <55D22AD6.60203@hyperactivesw.com> <735102C1-7509-4F51-9B45-1F0FE4722712@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <55D24A21.9040807@hyperactivesw.com> Thanks Monte. The JSON is created by EasyJSON from a LC array. Most of the values in the array are in foreign languages with lots of non-ascii characters, and those will become the values in the parameter string that I will send in a POST. It doesn't look like EasyJSON does any UTF8 encoding when creating the JSON. So I guess I need to UTF8 encode the array before sending it to the JSON parser, then URL-encode the JSON. Is it possible to textEncode a whole array at once without looping through all the elements? On 8/17/2015 3:28 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > I think we would need to see the API to know about the urlEncoding. > Is it a parameter in your query string? If you need to urlEncode it > will be the last thing you do. If you are using one of the script > libraries the UTF8 encoding may be done for you. If you are using > mergJSON then UTF8 encode anything that's not ASCII before you JSON > encode. > > Cheers > > Monte > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On 18 Aug 2015, at 4:41 am, J. Landman Gay >> wrote: >> >> I've confused myself. I need to send JSON to a server. The values >> will have foreign characters in them. So I think I need to use >> textEncode to convert it to UTF8 and also it needs to be URL >> encoded. Is that right? And if so, what order do I do it in? >> >> Do I URL-encode each value in the array, then create the JSON, then >> textEncode that? Or some other order? Or does textEncoding remove >> the need to URL encode? > > _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing > list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to > subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From monte at sweattechnologies.com Mon Aug 17 17:11:19 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 07:11:19 +1000 Subject: JSON, URL-encode, and UTF-8 In-Reply-To: <55D24A21.9040807@hyperactivesw.com> References: <55D22AD6.60203@hyperactivesw.com> <735102C1-7509-4F51-9B45-1F0FE4722712@sweattechnologies.com> <55D24A21.9040807@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <7E1F2A8E-B754-44A8-A506-85E8EA9987C2@sweattechnologies.com> > On 18 Aug 2015, at 6:54 am, J. Landman Gay wrote: > > Thanks Monte. The JSON is created by EasyJSON from a LC array. Most of the values in the array are in foreign languages with lots of non-ascii characters, and those will become the values in the parameter string that I will send in a POST. It doesn't look like EasyJSON does any UTF8 encoding when creating the JSON. I haven?t used EasyJSON because it was done after mergJSON so I can?t confirm about the utf8. If you are posting JSON then you don?t need to urlEncode. Just set the content type header to application/json > > So I guess I need to UTF8 encode the array before sending it to the JSON parser, then URL-encode the JSON. Is it possible to textEncode a whole array at once without looping through all the elements? No, just UTF8 encode any elements (or keys) that?s not likely to be ASCII. From dochawk at gmail.com Mon Aug 17 17:12:20 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 14:12:20 -0700 Subject: mouse pointer hot spot is way off In-Reply-To: References: <93B3AE25-AC20-4998-A7BF-A935E6B636BD@swcp.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 9:17 AM, Devin Asay wrote: > I have seen this and can reproduce it reliably. On a Mac, if you have two > monitors (or more I suppose), and you open a script editor window, it > initially opens on the same screen as your LiveCode IDE; on the "main > screen? as determined by the OS. After that I typically move the script > editor window to the second monitor. I find that if the top of the script > editor window is higher than the tool bar on the main screen, I get this > hot spot offset problem. Once I move the window downward on the second > monitor it goes away. I ought to have reported it, but I?ve gotten to where > I automatically just move the window down to avoid the problem. > > Does this seem to be the same thing you?re getting? > I had never nailed down this combination, but it's certainly consistent with what I see. When I'm using two monitors (most of the time), the code screen is almost always on the external. I have code in openStack that opens the scripts of my main code sections. However, if the main stack script won't compile, I have to manually move it--and there frequency of this is similar to the displacement bug. Next time it bites, I'll try moving the window back to the main screen. As I have to restart livened three to four times in a typical hour (the shadow declaration bug), the displacement bug bites a couple of times in a typical full day of coding. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From peter.brett at livecode.com Mon Aug 17 17:16:57 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 23:16:57 +0200 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: <55D2243C.8020500@fourthworld.com> References: <55D2243C.8020500@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <102ddaf150044750aac5281e25e2de84@livecode.com> On 2015-08-17 20:13, Richard Gaskin wrote: > William Prothero wrote: > >> I?m not at all concerned about the BAF. Perhaps I?ve missed some >> critical info, but comments have been made about zip and pdf support >> perhaps not being in the indie versions. This would trouble me. > > What troubles me is how hearsay like that gets started, and then how it > grows. > > Zip compression is available in all LiveCode editions, and as Kevin's > said they're not going to be taking features out of editions they're > currently available in. Yes. I don't know where this "zip compression is going to become Commercial-only" notion came from, but it's completely fictional. Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Engine Development Team From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Aug 17 17:21:25 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 14:21:25 -0700 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55D25055.7020605@fourthworld.com> Monte Goulding wrote: >> On 18 Aug 2015, at 6:47 am, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> >> There's a PDF widget? > > I believe there?s one in development based on PDFium On the one hand I don't recall any specific promises made about PDF rendering in terms of licensing, but on the other hand that PDF widget was the example used in Kevin's video from July 2014 to demonstrate the v8 architecture we all funded in the Kickstarter campaign, so I doubt he intends that one to be proprietary-only: Has anyone heard otherwise? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From monte at sweattechnologies.com Mon Aug 17 17:26:59 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 07:26:59 +1000 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: <55D25055.7020605@fourthworld.com> References: <55D25055.7020605@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <85B7BDD1-3A86-4156-AE3F-EDE298558DD7@sweattechnologies.com> > On 18 Aug 2015, at 7:21 am, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > On the one hand I don't recall any specific promises made about PDF rendering in terms of licensing, but on the other hand that PDF widget was the example used in Kevin's video from July 2014 to demonstrate the v8 architecture we all funded in the Kickstarter campaign, so I doubt he intends that one to be proprietary-only: > > > > Has anyone heard otherwise? IIRC that was hooking into OS X apis not a cross platform library like PDFium. Did the original email mention a PDF widget? I didn?t get it. From lyn.teyla at gmail.com Mon Aug 17 17:27:50 2015 From: lyn.teyla at gmail.com (Lyn Teyla) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 23:27:50 +0200 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: <55D25055.7020605@fourthworld.com> References: <55D25055.7020605@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Richard Gaskin wrote: > On the one hand I don't recall any specific promises made about PDF rendering in terms of licensing, but on the other hand that PDF widget was the example used in Kevin's video from July 2014 to demonstrate the v8 architecture we all funded in the Kickstarter campaign, so I doubt he intends that one to be proprietary-only: > > > Has anyone heard otherwise? It's listed (under 'Add Ons you can get with credits') as Business-only on the pricing page: https://livecode.com/products/livecode-platform/pricing/ Lyn From monte at sweattechnologies.com Mon Aug 17 17:37:49 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 07:37:49 +1000 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: References: <55D25055.7020605@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: > On 18 Aug 2015, at 7:27 am, Lyn Teyla wrote: > > It's listed (under 'Add Ons you can get with credits') as Business-only on the pricing page: > > https://livecode.com/products/livecode-platform/pricing/ Ah? I see. It?s a closed source widget available in the store that they can buy for 1 credit but I presume everyone else can buy for $99. From pete at lcsql.com Mon Aug 17 17:53:27 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 21:53:27 +0000 Subject: mouse pointer hot spot is way off In-Reply-To: References: <93B3AE25-AC20-4998-A7BF-A935E6B636BD@swcp.com> Message-ID: There's pretty persuasive evidence now that the shadowed variable bug is caused by stopping a debug run early. Since I trained myself to let debug run to the end of its natural course, I have not seen the problem. Hopefully that will help the team figure out the cause and fix it. On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 2:12 PM Dr. Hawkins wrote: > On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 9:17 AM, Devin Asay wrote: > > > I have seen this and can reproduce it reliably. On a Mac, if you have two > > monitors (or more I suppose), and you open a script editor window, it > > initially opens on the same screen as your LiveCode IDE; on the "main > > screen? as determined by the OS. After that I typically move the script > > editor window to the second monitor. I find that if the top of the script > > editor window is higher than the tool bar on the main screen, I get this > > hot spot offset problem. Once I move the window downward on the second > > monitor it goes away. I ought to have reported it, but I?ve gotten to > where > > I automatically just move the window down to avoid the problem. > > > > Does this seem to be the same thing you?re getting? > > > > I had never nailed down this combination, but it's certainly consistent > with what I see. > > When I'm using two monitors (most of the time), the code screen is almost > always on the external. I have code in openStack that opens the scripts of > my main code sections. However, if the main stack script won't compile, I > have to manually move it--and there frequency of this is similar to the > displacement bug. Next time it bites, I'll try moving the window back to > the main screen. > > As I have to restart livened three to four times in a typical hour (the > shadow declaration bug), the displacement bug bites a couple of times in a > typical full day of coding. > > > > -- > Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. > (702) 508-8462 > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From feed at smpcsupport.com Mon Aug 17 17:57:40 2015 From: feed at smpcsupport.com (RunRevPlanet) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 07:57:40 +1000 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card Message-ID: <1439848660.55d258d4cd035@www.server101.com> > Irrespective of things taking longer > that forecast (or desired) I understand that things take longer than expected, but when I read the Kickstarter Campaign it is clear that the new IDE is a core part of the next generation. It is not a stretch goal, and is repeatedly emphasised as a core part of the project. > Why? Why do I care about a new IDE, because I know programmers who won't use LiveCode because of it. Sure, that is their loss and they miss out on the wonderful tool that is the xTalk language and LiveCode. But the fact remains that the way a new IDE was a core feature of Kickstarter Campaign acknowledges that: 1. The current IDE is less than beautiful. 2. The current IDE is not designed around today?s usability standards. For those who like the current LiveCode IDE, that is fine, but you cannot read the Kickstarter Campaign and tell me that the two points above are not reasonable. I will argue most strongly that to be taken seriously and gain traction in the Open Source world you need a standards compliant IDE. Even if all the current LiveCode users are happy, first impressions do count for new users and so the new IDE should be a priority. Before Stretch Goals. Before anything else announced after the end of the 2013 campaign. > if I recall correctly, one of the > prerequisites of the "new IDE" was > the ability to display a stack in > a area in another stack and this > engine feature will only be > available in the LC 8 series. That may be so, but the Developer Preview of the LC 8 series is here, and there is little sign of a modern IDE. I will be very surprised if a new IDE is released within in the same version number series. I predict it will be LiveCode 9.0 before an IDE that fulfils the words below, which are LiveCode Ltd's, not mine: "new, beautiful graphical front-end" "new visual editor designed around today?s usability standards" -- Scott McDonald "Components, Controls, Tools and Resources for LiveCode" www.runrevplanet.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Aug 17 18:19:01 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 15:19:01 -0700 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: <85B7BDD1-3A86-4156-AE3F-EDE298558DD7@sweattechnologies.com> References: <85B7BDD1-3A86-4156-AE3F-EDE298558DD7@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <55D25DD5.6010301@fourthworld.com> Monte Goulding wrote: >> On 18 Aug 2015, at 7:21 am, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> On the one hand I don't recall any specific promises made about >> PDF rendering in terms of licensing, but on the other hand that >> PDF widget was the example used in Kevin's video from July 2014 >> to demonstrate the v8 architecture we all funded in the Kickstarter >> campaign, so I doubt he intends that one to be proprietary-only: >> > >> >> Has anyone heard otherwise? > > IIRC that was hooking into OS X apis not a cross platform library > like PDFium. Did the original email mention a PDF widget? I didn?t > get it. It would seem what they showed then was less advanced than what anyone here would need. And since you know of a good library that's cross-platform with compatible licensing you're ahead of them. This plays interestingly into what Lyn Teyla just noted: > It's listed (under 'Add Ons you can get with credits') as > Business-only on the pricing page: Well, isn't that a confusing page. :) The PDF component doesn't yet exist, so whether it uses OS API calls or a library such as the one Monte found is unknown Moreover, it isn't included with the Business package, but available for "1 credit" as one of a menu of option for which the Business license gets 20 "credits". This implies that anyone using a proprietary license should be able to obtain this, and the other add-ons there, as a separate purchase. But since no pricing is available for any of them in any currency other than "credits", the degree to which LiveCode Ltd. is interested in realizing the full revenue potential of these widgets is unknowable from the sparse info provided there. Since most of the folks here have some form of proprietary license, the bigger question is: what do devs do when they want to develop open source works? Do we make our own PDF widget? Do we release it under dual-license? Do we make the proprietary license available at a fee to offset costs? And these raise still more questions: What if the cost of a proprietary license for a community-driven widget is lower than the cost of the one available from LiveCode Ltd? Might that take some of the the wind out efforts to promote the Business package? What if the community-driven version is not only cheaper, but also outcompetes a LiveCode Ltd.-provided version with a richer feature set as well? The air become as still as the Tradewinds during El Nino. Rather than spend too much time indulging in conjecture about ways the company and their community may become competitors, it seems more productive -- and much simpler -- to focus on ways we can act as partners: Given that: - A PDF widget involves a functionality useful to open source projects using that open standard format, so community members would be unusually motivated to write one if needed - Regardless who makes it, either version would likely carry a fee for use in proprietary apps - This is just a 1-credit widget (all the others cost 10 "credits") - It doesn't yet exist ...it would seem in everyone's interest for the company to consider releasing a GPL-governed version of the PDF widget. And it would benefit the company to describe pricing outside of "credits" for users with proprietary licenses other than Business so the vast majority of current license holders can use those components as well (read, "Please make it easy for me to give you money"). There's been so little info about this PDF thang that for all I know what I've described here may have been Kevin's plan all along. Hopefully he'll chime in to clarify. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From sundown at pacifier.com Mon Aug 17 18:46:05 2015 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 15:46:05 -0700 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: <55D25DD5.6010301@fourthworld.com> References: <85B7BDD1-3A86-4156-AE3F-EDE298558DD7@sweattechnologies.com> <55D25DD5.6010301@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On Aug 17, 2015, at 3:19 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > This implies that anyone using a proprietary license should be able to obtain this, and the other add-ons there, as a separate purchase. But since no pricing is available for any of them in any currency other than "credits", the degree to which LiveCode Ltd. is interested in realizing the full revenue potential of these widgets is unknowable from the sparse info provided there. > > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web Full revenue potential may be directly related to purchasing a business license to produce the desired results you want. The price difference in comparison to a indy license and business license may exceed the sales of it to those without a business license. And that is forever once you are hooked. John Balgenorth From monte at sweattechnologies.com Mon Aug 17 19:33:19 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 09:33:19 +1000 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: <55D25DD5.6010301@fourthworld.com> References: <85B7BDD1-3A86-4156-AE3F-EDE298558DD7@sweattechnologies.com> <55D25DD5.6010301@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <68CE0270-BFE2-486F-B4C8-ED47C516DD39@sweattechnologies.com> > On 18 Aug 2015, at 8:19 am, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > > It would seem what they showed then was less advanced than what anyone here would need. And since you know of a good library that's cross-platform with compatible licensing you're ahead of them. Actually no. They are fully aware of PDFium and I believe they have at least played with a widget for it although I?m not sure how as the packaged library support isn?t yet implemented for widgets as far as I know. > > This implies that anyone using a proprietary license should be able to obtain this, and the other add-ons there, as a separate purchase. But since no pricing is available for any of them in any currency other than "credits", the degree to which LiveCode Ltd. is interested in realizing the full revenue potential of these widgets is unknowable from the sparse info provided there. The page states that a credit has a value of $99. > > Since most of the folks here have some form of proprietary license, the bigger question is: what do devs do when they want to develop open source works? Actually we are jumping the gun here. It?s quite possible that they could release all the add ons you can buy with your credits as dual license but just not include them (extra credits) in the Indy license. Seems like a wise move to me as it means they won?t get someone like me coming along that needs extra features for my client building a whole new widget that undercuts their market share. Instead it would be more logical for me to add features to their widget. Either way I?m hoping that these credits can be applied to any item in the extensions store so it would be possible to target them by building business centric widgets... From brahma at hindu.org Mon Aug 17 19:41:46 2015 From: brahma at hindu.org (Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 13:41:46 -1000 Subject: Distribute beta versions of iOS app Message-ID: <4417607974232833140@unknownmsgid> Assuming the UDID's of the devices are in your provisioning profile is there an easy way the distribute the app to remote beta testers outside of apple's ecosystem? Some download URL from our web server? BR From monte at sweattechnologies.com Mon Aug 17 19:43:40 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 09:43:40 +1000 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: <68CE0270-BFE2-486F-B4C8-ED47C516DD39@sweattechnologies.com> References: <85B7BDD1-3A86-4156-AE3F-EDE298558DD7@sweattechnologies.com> <55D25DD5.6010301@fourthworld.com> <68CE0270-BFE2-486F-B4C8-ED47C516DD39@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: > On 18 Aug 2015, at 9:33 am, Monte Goulding wrote: > > t?s quite possible that they could release all the add ons you can buy with your credits as dual license but just not include them (extra credits) in the Indy license Hmm? looking at the page a bit more I see mobile camera support is not available for community so that indicates to me that the extra features won?t be dual licensed. Also I see that you can?t buy extra credits for Indy and if the only way to buy these features is via credits then they become Business only features. Anyway, I?m sure it will all work out. From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Mon Aug 17 20:02:16 2015 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 20:02:16 -0400 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: <68CE0270-BFE2-486F-B4C8-ED47C516DD39@sweattechnologies.com> References: <85B7BDD1-3A86-4156-AE3F-EDE298558DD7@sweattechnologies.com> <55D25DD5.6010301@fourthworld.com> <68CE0270-BFE2-486F-B4C8-ED47C516DD39@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <005201d0d949$24cfc2e0$6e6f48a0$@net> I had a one-on-one with Mark at RR14. We talked about PDF support. We discussed a widget using PDFium. Mark and the team are well aware of the need of PDF support. I'm sure it's on the hot list. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Aug 17 20:13:49 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 17:13:49 -0700 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: <1439848660.55d258d4cd035@www.server101.com> References: <1439848660.55d258d4cd035@www.server101.com> Message-ID: <55D278BD.6060502@fourthworld.com> RunRevPlanet wrote: > Richard Gaskin wrote: >> RunRevPlanet wrote: >>> I understand that things take longer than expected, but when I read >>> the Kickstarter Campaign it is clear that the new IDE is a core >>> part of the next generation. It is not a stretch goal, and is >>> repeatedly emphasised as a core part of the project. >> >> Why? > > Why do I care about a new IDE, because I know programmers who won't > use LiveCode because of it. Sure, that is their loss and they miss > out on the wonderful tool that is the xTalk language and LiveCode. > > But the fact remains that the way a new IDE was a core feature of > Kickstarter Campaign acknowledges that: > > 1. The current IDE is less than beautiful. > 2. The current IDE is not designed around today?s usability > standards. Being new will only guarantee that it's new, not necessarily that it will improve the workflow. What usability standards do you feel are not well reflected in the current IDE, and if Kevin made you IDE Czar tomorrow what are the first three things you'd do to fix that? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From sundown at pacifier.com Mon Aug 17 20:33:08 2015 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 17:33:08 -0700 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: <005201d0d949$24cfc2e0$6e6f48a0$@net> References: <85B7BDD1-3A86-4156-AE3F-EDE298558DD7@sweattechnologies.com> <55D25DD5.6010301@fourthworld.com> <68CE0270-BFE2-486F-B4C8-ED47C516DD39@sweattechnologies.com> <005201d0d949$24cfc2e0$6e6f48a0$@net> Message-ID: Everyone said PDF support will be available for 1 credit. So you got your wish. Now they want to know if the indy license will include it. John Balgenorth On Aug 17, 2015, at 5:02 PM, Ralph DiMola wrote: > I had a one-on-one with Mark at RR14. We talked about PDF support. We discussed a widget using PDFium. Mark and the team are well aware of the need of PDF support. I'm sure it's on the hot list. > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Aug 17 21:04:53 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 18:04:53 -0700 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: <68CE0270-BFE2-486F-B4C8-ED47C516DD39@sweattechnologies.com> References: <68CE0270-BFE2-486F-B4C8-ED47C516DD39@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <55D284B5.7040508@fourthworld.com> Monte Goulding wrote: > The page states that a credit has a value of $99. Where? Maybe my coffee's worn off, but I can't find a dollar value for points on that page. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From monte at sweattechnologies.com Mon Aug 17 21:14:30 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 11:14:30 +1000 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: <55D284B5.7040508@fourthworld.com> References: <68CE0270-BFE2-486F-B4C8-ED47C516DD39@sweattechnologies.com> <55D284B5.7040508@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: > On 18 Aug 2015, at 11:04 am, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > Where? Maybe my coffee's worn off, but I can't find a dollar value for points on that page. Add Ons you can get with credits. 20 credits are included with every business license. Spend your credits on these list of exclusive add ons. (additional credits are available. Each credit has a value of $99) From sundown at pacifier.com Mon Aug 17 21:23:54 2015 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 18:23:54 -0700 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: References: <68CE0270-BFE2-486F-B4C8-ED47C516DD39@sweattechnologies.com> <55D284B5.7040508@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: I think your question about the indy license including the listed PDF support has been answered in that statement. The key word is exclusive. It looks like open-source needs to step up on their own. John Balgenorth On Aug 17, 2015, at 6:14 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > >> On 18 Aug 2015, at 11:04 am, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> >> Where? Maybe my coffee's worn off, but I can't find a dollar value for points on that page. > > Add Ons you can get with credits. > 20 credits are included with every business license. Spend your credits on these list of exclusive add ons. (additional credits are available. > Each credit has a value of $99) > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Aug 17 21:26:22 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 18:26:22 -0700 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55D289BE.2010107@fourthworld.com> Monte Goulding wrote: >> On 18 Aug 2015, at 11:04 am, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> >> Where? Maybe my coffee's worn off, but I can't find a dollar >> value for points on that page. > > Add Ons you can get with credits. > 20 credits are included with every business license. Spend your > credits on these list of exclusive add ons. (additional credits > are available. Each credit has a value of $99) Oh, you mean the bold text right in the middle of the page? :) Thanks. Not sure how I missed it. Must be siesta... -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From sundown at pacifier.com Mon Aug 17 21:40:46 2015 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 18:40:46 -0700 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: References: <68CE0270-BFE2-486F-B4C8-ED47C516DD39@sweattechnologies.com> <55D284B5.7040508@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <405C4066-4808-4E28-A9CC-E0A67AD245D8@pacifier.com> How hard can it be to add pdf support to open-source? I assume the code is in C++ or Obhective-C. I am not a C programmer but I have learned a little about it and might be willing to help. First of all you would need to understand I am not completely up to par on C so I would need some help and simple guidelines at first. Second since they are exclusive I want to make sure pur work is exclusive too. That is only fair. Working for free and helping out is one thing but providing code for them to use exclusively does not interest me. John Balgenorth On Aug 17, 2015, at 6:23 PM, JB wrote: > I think your question about the indy license > including the listed PDF support has been > answered in that statement. > > The key word is exclusive. > > It looks like open-source needs to step up > on their own. > > John Balgenorth > > > On Aug 17, 2015, at 6:14 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > >> >>> On 18 Aug 2015, at 11:04 am, Richard Gaskin wrote: >>> >>> Where? Maybe my coffee's worn off, but I can't find a dollar value for points on that page. >> >> Add Ons you can get with credits. >> 20 credits are included with every business license. Spend your credits on these list of exclusive add ons. (additional credits are available. >> Each credit has a value of $99) >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From feed at smpcsupport.com Mon Aug 17 21:44:29 2015 From: feed at smpcsupport.com (RunRevPlanet) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 11:44:29 +1000 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card Message-ID: <1439862269.55d28dfd8a501@www.server101.com> I am using LiveCode 8.0 DP2 as my baseline, as I understand it to be the future and not the 7.0 series. And my comments are from a Windows perspective. Richard said: > What usability standards do you feel are > not well reflected in the current IDE, > and if Kevin made you IDE Czar tomorrow > what are the first three things you'd do to > fix that? Here are three items. 1. Fix up the mess of the find and replace. For example: a. There is no keyboard shortcut for find previous. b. Ctrl+Shift+F is not a standard shortcut for Find and Replace. c. Cannot do a find and replace within selected text. d. While in the editor to find and replace across, say a card or stack, you need to click on the IDE toolbar and then choose a different Find and Replace command. 2. Improve debugging usability: a. Cannot view Variable Watches and Breakpoints simultaneously. b. The Call stack is a dropdown list and so requires clicking with the mouse to view it each time. 3. Fix up the new property inspector: a. It should be possible to select the different panes with the mouse. b. Within a pane if the tab key is used to move to the next item, it is impossible to determine what property is current when in a series of check boxes. c. Within a pane when the tab key is used to move to the next item, when a text field is reached the existing text should be selected and the cursor be placed at the end. That is my top three. While I am in control here are some other problems/suggestions: 4. New widgets do not show a contextual menu when right clicked. 5. There is no editor bookmark feature. 6. Customise the selection of actions/buttons on the main toolbar. 7. There is no keyboard shortcut to switch to the IDE toolbar/menu from the script editor. 8. Using the same keyboard shortcuts depending what window has the focus is confusing. 9. The smart indent cannot be turned off and there is no option for using the tab character with the smart indent is on. 10. Make all the dialogues and windows follow a consistent style and spacing of elements. None of these are terribly advanced or unreasonable for a developer to expect. These are basic features programmers expect from an IDE today. On a more subjective level, the LiveCode IDE has a look that can put an experienced programmers off. That is part of the problem with the IDE that I think goes to the heart of challenges with LiveCode going open source. For open source projects to be successful it is important to attract experienced programmers who can contribute. But with LiveCode, experienced programmers who try it, dismiss it because of the general idiosyncratic feel it has. >From the uncustomisable toolbar with chunky icons, to the script editor that is flaky and sluggish. LiveCode doesn't "feel right". You and I know that the power and advantages of LiveCode lies beneath the "clunky" surface of the IDE and I understand LiveCode's mission is too allow *everyone* to code, but to repeat a point: attracting the right talent to help with an open source programming tool, requires appealing to the advanced programmers too. I love LiveCode, but as it currently stands, I *never* look forward to working in the LiveCode IDE. Thanks for listening. -- Scott McDonald "Components, Controls, Tools and Resources for LiveCode" www.runrevplanet.com From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Mon Aug 17 21:50:49 2015 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 21:50:49 -0400 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: <405C4066-4808-4E28-A9CC-E0A67AD245D8@pacifier.com> References: <68CE0270-BFE2-486F-B4C8-ED47C516DD39@sweattechnologies.com> <55D284B5.7040508@fourthworld.com> <405C4066-4808-4E28-A9CC-E0A67AD245D8@pacifier.com> Message-ID: <000001d0d958$4ef4a630$ecddf290$@net> -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of JB Sent: Monday, August 17, 2015 9:41 PM To: How to use LiveCode Subject: Re: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card How hard can it be to add pdf support to open-source? I read the PDF spec and got a headache on the 3 page. I know that PDFium is doing the heavy lifting but the PDF spec is nasty. Add bookmarks, PDF fields and java into the mix and can get ugly fast. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Aug 17 21:51:52 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 18:51:52 -0700 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: <405C4066-4808-4E28-A9CC-E0A67AD245D8@pacifier.com> References: <405C4066-4808-4E28-A9CC-E0A67AD245D8@pacifier.com> Message-ID: <55D28FB8.6060406@fourthworld.com> JB wrote: > How hard can it be to add pdf support to open-source? Technically, it's a matter of copying the GPLv3 license file into that repository, and adding an appropriate note to the main source file. It seems the considerations here aren't technical. > I assume the code is in C++ or Obhective-C. LiveCode Builder, IIRC. > I am not a C programmer but I have learned > a little about it and might be willing to help. > > First of all you would need to understand I am > not completely up to par on C so I would need > some help and simple guidelines at first. > > Second since they are exclusive I want to make > sure pur work is exclusive too. That is only fair. > Working for free and helping out is one thing but > providing code for them to use exclusively does > not interest me. If you really wanted to send a message, rather than write C for the LiveCode community you could write it in Python for the Python community. That is, if it weren't for the hundreds of PDF packages that already exist for that very popular language: Indeed it's the relationship between capabilities and audience size that leads me to believe LiveCode will choose a simpler, more partnering approach with their open source supporters on this PDF component. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From sundown at pacifier.com Mon Aug 17 21:55:40 2015 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 18:55:40 -0700 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: <000001d0d958$4ef4a630$ecddf290$@net> References: <68CE0270-BFE2-486F-B4C8-ED47C516DD39@sweattechnologies.com> <55D284B5.7040508@fourthworld.com> <405C4066-4808-4E28-A9CC-E0A67AD245D8@pacifier.com> <000001d0d958$4ef4a630$ecddf290$@net> Message-ID: <2C4B8186-D31B-40B4-85BF-5F74040165F2@pacifier.com> I have not studied Java at all. Does Apple have any example code that could be modified? John Balgenorth On Aug 17, 2015, at 6:50 PM, Ralph DiMola wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf > Of JB > Sent: Monday, August 17, 2015 9:41 PM > To: How to use LiveCode > Subject: Re: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card > > How hard can it be to add pdf support to open-source? > > I read the PDF spec and got a headache on the 3 page. I know that PDFium is > doing the heavy lifting but the PDF spec is nasty. Add bookmarks, PDF fields > and java into the mix and can get ugly fast. > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From sundown at pacifier.com Mon Aug 17 22:01:20 2015 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 19:01:20 -0700 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: <55D28FB8.6060406@fourthworld.com> References: <405C4066-4808-4E28-A9CC-E0A67AD245D8@pacifier.com> <55D28FB8.6060406@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <3FA99BBC-7C3A-487B-B64A-0CAD0F5FE35C@pacifier.com> I have never used LiveCode Builder, IIRC. so I don?t know what it takes to help. John Balgenorth On Aug 17, 2015, at 6:51 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > JB wrote: > >> How hard can it be to add pdf support to open-source? > > Technically, it's a matter of copying the GPLv3 license file into that repository, and adding an appropriate note to the main source file. > > It seems the considerations here aren't technical. > > >> I assume the code is in C++ or Obhective-C. > > LiveCode Builder, IIRC. > > >> I am not a C programmer but I have learned >> a little about it and might be willing to help. >> >> First of all you would need to understand I am >> not completely up to par on C so I would need >> some help and simple guidelines at first. >> >> Second since they are exclusive I want to make >> sure pur work is exclusive too. That is only fair. >> Working for free and helping out is one thing but >> providing code for them to use exclusively does >> not interest me. > > If you really wanted to send a message, rather than write C for the LiveCode community you could write it in Python for the Python community. > > That is, if it weren't for the hundreds of PDF packages that already exist for that very popular language: > > > Indeed it's the relationship between capabilities and audience size that leads me to believe LiveCode will choose a simpler, more partnering approach with their open source supporters on this PDF component. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From peterwawood at gmail.com Mon Aug 17 22:12:52 2015 From: peterwawood at gmail.com (Peter W A Wood) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 10:12:52 +0800 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card (Updated) In-Reply-To: <43CD8158-FDFC-4DB0-A695-D8E8832C2E92@gmail.com> References: <43CD8158-FDFC-4DB0-A695-D8E8832C2E92@gmail.com> Message-ID: <0CE68BAF-D002-41EB-AEB7-D06C672216DF@gmail.com> I have updated my KickStarter report card thanks to the information about the new player for Windows being planned for LiveCode 8.0 that Tom Bodine kindly provided. As I understand, the phrase ?new visual editor? refers to the new IDE. LIVECODE KICKSTARTER REPORT CARD The first thing to note is that all the Kickstarter rewards have been delivered. There seems to have been three major deliverables promised in the main campaign: Deliverable Status Re-engineer the whole platform Completed A new technology: ?Open Language? Early alpha of the pre-requisite LiveCode Builder released (LiveCode 8.0) Open Language will be in a release after LiveCode 8.0 A new visual editor Early alpha released (LiveCode 8.0) There were a number of deliverables promised through stretch goals which were met: Deliverable Status Resolution Independence Completed Pluggable Themes Pluggable Themes will be in a release after LiveCode 8.0 Cocoa Completed Physics Engine Physics Engine will be in a release after LiveCode 8.0 Windows/Phone 8 Theme Windows/Phone 8 Theme will be in a release after LiveCode 8.0 Vector Shape Object Vector Shape Object will be in a release after LiveCode 8.0 Reworked Multimedia Support New Player Completed on OS X. Windows in release LiveCode 8.0. Linux ??? Multi Channel Sound OS X : Linux : Windows ??? Sound Recording ??? New Browser Control OS X, Windows completed. Linux with LiveCode 8.0 I?d appreciate if somebody could let me know the status of the items about which I?m unclear and any mistakes I have made. Regards Peter From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Aug 17 22:13:25 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 21:13:25 -0500 Subject: Distribute beta versions of iOS app In-Reply-To: <4417607974232833140@unknownmsgid> References: <4417607974232833140@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <55D294C5.6020605@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/17/2015 6:41 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote: > Assuming the UDID's of the devices are in your provisioning profile is > there an easy way the distribute the app to remote beta testers > outside of apple's ecosystem? Some download URL from our web server? There's AirLaunch, for one: It uses a method that you could reproduce manually, but having a utility is easier. Note that if you want to distribute from your own server, Apple requires it to have an SSL certificate. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From peterwawood at gmail.com Mon Aug 17 22:28:04 2015 From: peterwawood at gmail.com (Peter W A Wood) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 10:28:04 +0800 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card (Updated) In-Reply-To: <0CE68BAF-D002-41EB-AEB7-D06C672216DF@gmail.com> References: <43CD8158-FDFC-4DB0-A695-D8E8832C2E92@gmail.com> <0CE68BAF-D002-41EB-AEB7-D06C672216DF@gmail.com> Message-ID: <94AAAF4B-AA3C-4060-A118-555AD27C0211@gmail.com> I forgot to add the most important promise ? LiveCode being open-sourced ? as kindly pointed out by Jacque Landman Gay. LIVECODE KICKSTARTER REPORT CARD The first thing to note is that all the Kickstarter rewards have been delivered. The second thing to note is that LiveCode has open-sourced LiveCode. It is available on Github. There seems to have been three other major deliverables promised in the main campaign: Deliverable Status Re-engineer the whole platform Completed A new technology: ?Open Language? Early alpha of the pre-requisite LiveCode Builder released (LiveCode 8.0) Open Language will be in a release after LiveCode 8.0 A new visual editor Early alpha released (LiveCode 8.0) There were a number of deliverables promised through stretch goals which were met: Deliverable Status Resolution Independence Completed Pluggable Themes Pluggable Themes will be in a release after LiveCode 8.0 Cocoa Completed Physics Engine Physics Engine will be in a release after LiveCode 8.0 Windows/Phone 8 Theme Windows/Phone 8 Theme will be in a release after LiveCode 8.0 Vector Shape Object Vector Shape Object will be in a release after LiveCode 8.0 Reworked Multimedia Support New Player Completed on OS X. Windows in release LiveCode 8.0. Linux ??? Multi Channel Sound OS X : Linux : Windows ??? Sound Recording ??? New Browser Control OS X, Windows completed. Linux with LiveCode 8.0 I?d appreciate if somebody could let me know the status of the items about which I?m unclear and any mistakes I have made. Regards Peter From monte at sweattechnologies.com Mon Aug 17 22:37:19 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 12:37:19 +1000 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: <000001d0d958$4ef4a630$ecddf290$@net> References: <68CE0270-BFE2-486F-B4C8-ED47C516DD39@sweattechnologies.com> <55D284B5.7040508@fourthworld.com> <405C4066-4808-4E28-A9CC-E0A67AD245D8@pacifier.com> <000001d0d958$4ef4a630$ecddf290$@net> Message-ID: <6BB3C982-3CEA-46BE-BF01-928220B75D03@sweattechnologies.com> > On 18 Aug 2015, at 11:50 am, Ralph DiMola wrote: > > How hard can it be to add pdf support to open-source? > > I read the PDF spec and got a headache on the 3 page. I know that PDFium is > doing the heavy lifting but the PDF spec is nasty. Add bookmarks, PDF fields > and java into the mix and can get ugly fast. Indeed it really depends on how much of the PDF spec you want to support. If it?s just rendering the PDF to a widget (which is the simplest use case) it should be quite easy because PDFium will render an image for a page at a given size which can just be shown in the widget. Not hard at all. Text selection etc gets a bit more complicated bit overall it will all be much simpler in a widget than the Windows & OS X external I?m maintaining at the moment. PDFium BTW is the PDF rendering library from Chromium and an open source version of FoxIT SDK. From sundown at pacifier.com Mon Aug 17 22:45:43 2015 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 19:45:43 -0700 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: <6BB3C982-3CEA-46BE-BF01-928220B75D03@sweattechnologies.com> References: <68CE0270-BFE2-486F-B4C8-ED47C516DD39@sweattechnologies.com> <55D284B5.7040508@fourthworld.com> <405C4066-4808-4E28-A9CC-E0A67AD245D8@pacifier.com> <000001d0d958$4ef4a630$ecddf290$@net> <6BB3C982-3CEA-46BE-BF01-928220B75D03@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <6E5475BD-6738-48A6-8A7A-357D4632E80D@pacifier.com> Thanks for the info. I did not know what PDFium was and I have never programmed a widget either. As you can see I am very limited at moment. John Balgenorth On Aug 17, 2015, at 7:37 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > >> On 18 Aug 2015, at 11:50 am, Ralph DiMola wrote: >> >> How hard can it be to add pdf support to open-source? >> >> I read the PDF spec and got a headache on the 3 page. I know that PDFium is >> doing the heavy lifting but the PDF spec is nasty. Add bookmarks, PDF fields >> and java into the mix and can get ugly fast. > > Indeed it really depends on how much of the PDF spec you want to support. If it?s just rendering the PDF to a widget (which is the simplest use case) it should be quite easy because PDFium will render an image for a page at a given size which can just be shown in the widget. Not hard at all. Text selection etc gets a bit more complicated bit overall it will all be much simpler in a widget than the Windows & OS X external I?m maintaining at the moment. PDFium BTW is the PDF rendering library from Chromium and an open source version of FoxIT SDK. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From peterwawood at gmail.com Mon Aug 17 22:45:33 2015 From: peterwawood at gmail.com (Peter W A Wood) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 10:45:33 +0800 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card (Updated) In-Reply-To: <0CE68BAF-D002-41EB-AEB7-D06C672216DF@gmail.com> References: <43CD8158-FDFC-4DB0-A695-D8E8832C2E92@gmail.com> <0CE68BAF-D002-41EB-AEB7-D06C672216DF@gmail.com> Message-ID: There have been quite a few comments and clearly a number of different views amongst members of the community. I would like to add my perspective. The LiveCode Kickstarter campaign was very unusual in that the LiveCode could fulfil all of the rewards without actually having to complete the project. The rewards consisted of gifts and existing LiveCode products. In one sense, LiveCode completed the Kickstarter campaign when all the rewards had been delivered. I?m sure that Kickstarter would take this view. LiveCode kept to the biggest promise it made, LiveCode has been open-sourced under the GPL and is freely accessible on Github. That leaves the other promises made during the Kickstarter campaign. Some made initially, some made as stretch goals. I have no doubt that these promises were very genuine. Clearly, LiveCode hasn?t been able to deliver them in the time they expected. This could be to any number of causes; under estimating and resources not being available being the most likely. To their great credit, the LiveCode team still appears to be committed to meeting its Kickstarter promises even though the funds raised to do so must have run out a long time ago. My concern is that it is human nature to push promises made a long time ago to the back of our minds. If my report card serves any purpose, it is simply to keep the promises in view. I would like the promises to be kept. However, if LiveCode were to give a reasonable explanation (with an apology) why a promise could no longer be met, I would accept it given that I got my rewards, LiveCode has been open-sourced, and many of the ?feature? promises have been met. Peter PS Does anybody still think it is worth LiveCode supporting Windows 8 Phone? From monte at sweattechnologies.com Mon Aug 17 22:52:36 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 12:52:36 +1000 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card (Updated) In-Reply-To: References: <43CD8158-FDFC-4DB0-A695-D8E8832C2E92@gmail.com> <0CE68BAF-D002-41EB-AEB7-D06C672216DF@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5F1218FE-2119-4762-B4F3-011BFB53E2CD@sweattechnologies.com> > On 18 Aug 2015, at 12:45 pm, Peter W A Wood wrote: > > PS Does anybody still think it is worth LiveCode supporting Windows 8 Phone? Nope? I presume the goal will be bumped to Windows 10??? From bonnmike at gmail.com Mon Aug 17 22:55:45 2015 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 20:55:45 -0600 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card (Updated) In-Reply-To: References: <43CD8158-FDFC-4DB0-A695-D8E8832C2E92@gmail.com> <0CE68BAF-D002-41EB-AEB7-D06C672216DF@gmail.com> Message-ID: Windows 8? No. 10? Yeah probably. If LC can be updated to be compliant with the UAP (universal app platform) If I understand correctly, dong that means it'll run on win 10, win 10 phones etc. Not sure how the backwards compatibility works though, and its possible I am way off base here too. On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 8:45 PM, Peter W A Wood wrote: > There have been quite a few comments and clearly a number of different > views amongst members of the community. I would like to add my perspective. > > The LiveCode Kickstarter campaign was very unusual in that the LiveCode > could fulfil all of the rewards without actually having to complete the > project. The rewards consisted of gifts and existing LiveCode products. > > In one sense, LiveCode completed the Kickstarter campaign when all the > rewards had been delivered. I?m sure that Kickstarter would take this view. > > LiveCode kept to the biggest promise it made, LiveCode has been > open-sourced under the GPL and is freely accessible on Github. > > That leaves the other promises made during the Kickstarter campaign. Some > made initially, some made as stretch goals. I have no doubt that these > promises were very genuine. Clearly, LiveCode hasn?t been able to deliver > them in the time they expected. This could be to any number of causes; > under estimating and resources not being available being the most likely. > > To their great credit, the LiveCode team still appears to be committed to > meeting its Kickstarter promises even though the funds raised to do so must > have run out a long time ago. > > My concern is that it is human nature to push promises made a long time > ago to the back of our minds. If my report card serves any purpose, it is > simply to keep the promises in view. > > I would like the promises to be kept. However, if LiveCode were to give a > reasonable explanation (with an apology) why a promise could no longer be > met, I would accept it given that I got my rewards, LiveCode has been > open-sourced, and many of the ?feature? promises have been met. > > Peter > > PS Does anybody still think it is worth LiveCode supporting Windows 8 > Phone? > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From peterwawood at gmail.com Mon Aug 17 22:56:06 2015 From: peterwawood at gmail.com (Peter W A Wood) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 10:56:06 +0800 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: <55D278BD.6060502@fourthworld.com> References: <1439848660.55d258d4cd035@www.server101.com> <55D278BD.6060502@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Richard > On 18 Aug 2015, at 08:13, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > What usability standards do you feel are not well reflected in the current IDE, and if Kevin made you IDE Czar tomorrow what are the first three things you'd do to fix that? 1. Intelligent Code Completion (like intelliSense) 2. Integrated Version Control 3. Support of Multiple targets (like Xcode) Regards Peter From brahma at hindu.org Mon Aug 17 22:58:36 2015 From: brahma at hindu.org (Brahmanathaswami) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 16:58:36 -1000 Subject: Distribute beta versions of iOS app In-Reply-To: <55D294C5.6020605@hyperactivesw.com> References: <4417607974232833140@unknownmsgid> <55D294C5.6020605@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <55D29F5C.8030505@hindu.org> hhhm.. Do I read that it is a simple as supplying a URL like this: https://www.himalayanacademy.com/apps/MyNewApp.app and sending that to someone who is on the provisioning profile? Swasti Astu, Be Well! Brahmanathaswami Kauai's Hindu Monastery www.HimalayanAcademy.com J. Landman Gay wrote: > On 8/17/2015 6:41 PM, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami wrote: >> Assuming the UDID's of the devices are in your provisioning profile is >> there an easy way the distribute the app to remote beta testers >> outside of apple's ecosystem? Some download URL from our web server? > > There's AirLaunch, for one: > > > It uses a method that you could reproduce manually, but having a > utility is easier. Note that if you want to distribute from your own > server, Apple requires it to have an SSL certificate. From brahma at hindu.org Mon Aug 17 23:00:19 2015 From: brahma at hindu.org (Brahmanathaswami) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 17:00:19 -1000 Subject: Distribute beta versions of iOS app In-Reply-To: <55D294C5.6020605@hyperactivesw.com> References: <4417607974232833140@unknownmsgid> <55D294C5.6020605@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <55D29FC3.4090704@hindu.org> " *AirLaunch FTP* AirLaunch provides a built-in FTP client that will upload all the files for you, so there's no need to leave LiveCode. Or if you're using Dropbox, just move the files into the Public folder and you won't have to upload anything at all. Your 10 last-used server logins are stored securely with SSL, so you only have to enter them once. After that, choose it from the list." uses SFTP to transfer to the server? How did you do that? -- Swasti Astu, Be Well! Brahmanathaswami Kauai's Hindu Monastery www.HimalayanAcademy.com J. Landman Gay wrote: > There's AirLaunch, for one: > From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Mon Aug 17 23:08:33 2015 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 23:08:33 -0400 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card (Updated) In-Reply-To: References: <43CD8158-FDFC-4DB0-A695-D8E8832C2E92@gmail.com> <0CE68BAF-D002-41EB-AEB7-D06C672216DF@gmail.com> Message-ID: I think MS learned a valuable lesson from RT with its limited subset of apps written for the ARM CPU. Modern MS tablets are using the new quad-core Atom which is Intel. It will even run LiveCode on a tablet! If Windows phone does the same, there's no reason not to support it. On Aug 17, 2015 10:55 PM, "Mike Bonner" wrote: > Windows 8? No. 10? Yeah probably. If LC can be updated to be compliant > with the UAP (universal app platform) If I understand correctly, dong that > means it'll run on win 10, win 10 phones etc. Not sure how the backwards > compatibility works though, and its possible I am way off base here too. > > On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 8:45 PM, Peter W A Wood > wrote: > > > There have been quite a few comments and clearly a number of different > > views amongst members of the community. I would like to add my > perspective. > > > > The LiveCode Kickstarter campaign was very unusual in that the LiveCode > > could fulfil all of the rewards without actually having to complete the > > project. The rewards consisted of gifts and existing LiveCode products. > > > > In one sense, LiveCode completed the Kickstarter campaign when all the > > rewards had been delivered. I?m sure that Kickstarter would take this > view. > > > > LiveCode kept to the biggest promise it made, LiveCode has been > > open-sourced under the GPL and is freely accessible on Github. > > > > That leaves the other promises made during the Kickstarter campaign. Some > > made initially, some made as stretch goals. I have no doubt that these > > promises were very genuine. Clearly, LiveCode hasn?t been able to deliver > > them in the time they expected. This could be to any number of causes; > > under estimating and resources not being available being the most likely. > > > > To their great credit, the LiveCode team still appears to be committed to > > meeting its Kickstarter promises even though the funds raised to do so > must > > have run out a long time ago. > > > > My concern is that it is human nature to push promises made a long time > > ago to the back of our minds. If my report card serves any purpose, it is > > simply to keep the promises in view. > > > > I would like the promises to be kept. However, if LiveCode were to give a > > reasonable explanation (with an apology) why a promise could no longer be > > met, I would accept it given that I got my rewards, LiveCode has been > > open-sourced, and many of the ?feature? promises have been met. > > > > Peter > > > > PS Does anybody still think it is worth LiveCode supporting Windows 8 > > Phone? > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From peterwawood at gmail.com Mon Aug 17 23:10:02 2015 From: peterwawood at gmail.com (Peter W A Wood) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 11:10:02 +0800 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card (Updated) In-Reply-To: <5F1218FE-2119-4762-B4F3-011BFB53E2CD@sweattechnologies.com> References: <43CD8158-FDFC-4DB0-A695-D8E8832C2E92@gmail.com> <0CE68BAF-D002-41EB-AEB7-D06C672216DF@gmail.com> <5F1218FE-2119-4762-B4F3-011BFB53E2CD@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: Monte > On 18 Aug 2015, at 10:52, Monte Goulding wrote: > > >> On 18 Aug 2015, at 12:45 pm, Peter W A Wood wrote: >> >> PS Does anybody still think it is worth LiveCode supporting Windows 8 Phone? > > Nope? I presume the goal will be bumped to Windows 10??? Perhaps there is no need for a replacement. After all, it looks to me that you cannot sell GPL licensed software through the Windows App Store so LiveCode will be motivated to include Windows 10 support as it could help them sell more indy licences. (Assuming that Windows 10 and its appstore takes off). Cheers Peter From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Aug 17 23:11:24 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 20:11:24 -0700 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card (Updated) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55D2A25C.5060705@fourthworld.com> Peter W A Wood wrote: > Does anybody still think it is worth LiveCode supporting Windows > 8 Phone? If you and I bought Win8 phones to test with we'd double the installed base. :) I don't think there's a need for Win *phone* per se, but we do need touch support on Windows, and Ubuntu as well, and by the time we get those in place we'll need it for OS X as well. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Aug 17 23:29:13 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 20:29:13 -0700 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card (Updated) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55D2A689.2090608@fourthworld.com> Peter W A Wood wrote: > After all, it looks to me that you cannot sell GPL licensed software > through the Windows App Store.... I couldn't find anything definitive on that. I did find some older articles about Win8 licensing suggesting FOSS was prohibited, but I also found this one from 2011 that says the opposite: Windows 8 Store will allow open source apps, unlike iOS and Mac App Stores ... The section in question states that apps released under a license from the Open Source Initiative (GPL, Apache, etc.) can be distributed in the Windows Store. Further, it says that the OSI license will trump the Microsoft Standard Application License Terms, namely the the restriction on sharing applications. And that was back when Ballmer was still there. Since Nadella took the helm Microsoft has fallen in love with Linux, started moving their dev tools to open source, and is partnering with Ubuntu as a key component of their Azure cloud platform. (No, really, it's like hell froze over in a flock of flying pigs - the photo here is priceless, something no one ever expected for decades: ) Anyone have a definitive notice on this, preferably one from Microsoft themselves? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From peterwawood at gmail.com Mon Aug 17 23:36:12 2015 From: peterwawood at gmail.com (Peter W A Wood) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 11:36:12 +0800 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card (Updated) In-Reply-To: <55D2A689.2090608@fourthworld.com> References: <55D2A689.2090608@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <8953B9C7-09C6-462C-9E4C-60C1DE8C1292@gmail.com> > On 18 Aug 2015, at 11:29, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > Peter W A Wood wrote: > > > After all, it looks to me that you cannot sell GPL licensed software > > through the Windows App Store.... > > I couldn't find anything definitive on that. I did find some older articles about Win8 licensing suggesting FOSS was prohibited, but I also found this one from 2011 that says the opposite: > > Windows 8 Store will allow open source apps, > unlike iOS and Mac App Stores > ... > The section in question states that apps released under a license > from the Open Source Initiative (GPL, Apache, etc.) can be > distributed in the Windows Store. Further, it says that the OSI > license will trump the Microsoft Standard Application License > Terms, namely the the restriction on sharing applications. > > > And that was back when Ballmer was still there. Since Nadella took the helm Microsoft has fallen in love with Linux, started moving their dev tools to open source, and is partnering with Ubuntu as a key component of their Azure cloud platform. (No, really, it's like hell froze over in a flock of flying pigs - the photo here is priceless, something no one ever expected for decades: ) > > Anyone have a definitive notice on this, preferably one from Microsoft themselves? I interpreted this clause from the latest Windows Store App Developer Agreement, to mean that GPL software cannot be sold via the App Store: d. FOSS Software. If your App includes FOSS, (i) you are responsible for compliance with all applicable FOSS license terms, including any source code availability requirements, and (ii) it must not cause any non-FOSS Microsoft software to become subject to the terms of any FOSS license. I could well be wrong though. Regards Peter From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Aug 17 23:36:57 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 20:36:57 -0700 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55D2A859.8040006@fourthworld.com> Peter W A Wood wrote: >> On 18 Aug 2015, at 08:13, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> >> What usability standards do you feel are not well reflected in the >> current IDE, and if Kevin made you IDE Czar tomorrow what are the >> first three things you'd do to fix that? > > 1. Intelligent Code Completion (like intelliSense) I keep hearing talk about that, but it's not on the Road Map and given the number of tasks in the queue it may be a long time before it shows up. I agree, though, worth pursuing. Why can't we make that as a plugin? > 2. Integrated Version Control Looks like lcVCS is a more generalized solution than what LiveCode Ltd. is including with their Biz package, so we're on our way on that one. > 3. Support of Multiple targets (like Xcode) What are "multiple targets" in an IDE? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From monte at sweattechnologies.com Mon Aug 17 23:47:13 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 13:47:13 +1000 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: <55D2A859.8040006@fourthworld.com> References: <55D2A859.8040006@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <7387FBA0-A751-4615-9859-5B4B3B8CC257@sweattechnologies.com> > On 18 Aug 2015, at 1:36 pm, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > > 3. Support of Multiple targets (like Xcode) > > What are "multiple targets" in an IDE? I?m guessing he means being able to have more than one set of standalone settings as a named target. You could include different stacks or extra files in copy files? even use a different app name. Wouldn?t be that hard to do? you might want a default target that the others inherit from unless their value is different... From feed at smpcsupport.com Mon Aug 17 23:58:26 2015 From: feed at smpcsupport.com (RunRevPlanet) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 13:58:26 +1000 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card Message-ID: <1439870306.55d2ad62beedf@www.server101.com> Peter said: > I have no doubt that these promises > were very genuine. Clearly, LiveCode > hasn?t been able to deliver them in > the time they expected. I never doubt the sincerity of LiveCode Ltd. and the team behind it. But when a major feature which would be a tangible improvement for *everyone* using LiveCode is pushed to the end of the roadmap it is frustrating. * First it was open source that was going to help make the Next Generation IDE. * Then it was the magic of widgets that would boost productivity. * But I later discover the "LiveCode Builder" language needs to be finished to empower widgets and IDE. * In the meantime, LiveCode HTML 5 deployment is also coming, soon... Here is my point and regret: every month that a new user downloads LiveCode, plays with the IDE, and then leaves (likely never return) and laughs with her colleagues about a code editor that doesn't have bookmarks or search and replace in selected text, is a month wasted in building up the LiveCode user base. Forget the big plans and clever stuff like code completion or code tips, just deliver basic functionality that should be standard in any IDE worthy of he name Integrated Development Environment straight out of the box and then maybe the "tire kickers" will stay and the number of users grow. -- Scott McDonald "Components, Controls, Tools and Resources for LiveCode" www.runrevplanet.com From sundown at pacifier.com Tue Aug 18 00:07:10 2015 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 21:07:10 -0700 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: <6BB3C982-3CEA-46BE-BF01-928220B75D03@sweattechnologies.com> References: <68CE0270-BFE2-486F-B4C8-ED47C516DD39@sweattechnologies.com> <55D284B5.7040508@fourthworld.com> <405C4066-4808-4E28-A9CC-E0A67AD245D8@pacifier.com> <000001d0d958$4ef4a630$ecddf290$@net> <6BB3C982-3CEA-46BE-BF01-928220B75D03@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <67EE8DE4-D027-46B6-BE00-AF008D644CC3@pacifier.com> Ia rhea what you mean by PDF specs? PORTABLE DOCUMENT FORMAT (PDF) SPECIFICATIONS Technical Specifications Document John Balgenorth On Aug 17, 2015, at 7:37 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > >> On 18 Aug 2015, at 11:50 am, Ralph DiMola wrote: >> >> How hard can it be to add pdf support to open-source? >> >> I read the PDF spec and got a headache on the 3 page. I know that PDFium is >> doing the heavy lifting but the PDF spec is nasty. Add bookmarks, PDF fields >> and java into the mix and can get ugly fast. > > Indeed it really depends on how much of the PDF spec you want to support. If it?s just rendering the PDF to a widget (which is the simplest use case) it should be quite easy because PDFium will render an image for a page at a given size which can just be shown in the widget. Not hard at all. Text selection etc gets a bit more complicated bit overall it will all be much simpler in a widget than the Windows & OS X external I?m maintaining at the moment. PDFium BTW is the PDF rendering library from Chromium and an open source version of FoxIT SDK. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From peterwawood at gmail.com Tue Aug 18 00:42:39 2015 From: peterwawood at gmail.com (Peter W A Wood) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 12:42:39 +0800 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: <55D2A859.8040006@fourthworld.com> References: <55D2A859.8040006@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Richard > On 18 Aug 2015, at 11:36, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > Peter W A Wood wrote: > > >> On 18 Aug 2015, at 08:13, Richard Gaskin wrote: > >> > >> What usability standards do you feel are not well reflected in the > >> current IDE, and if Kevin made you IDE Czar tomorrow what are the > >> first three things you'd do to fix that? > > > > 1. Intelligent Code Completion (like intelliSense) > > I keep hearing talk about that, but it's not on the Road Map and given the number of tasks in the queue it may be a long time before it shows up. Any "new visual editor designed around today?s usability standards" would include this, even older ones like Delphi do. > > 2. Integrated Version Control > > Looks like lcVCS is a more generalized solution than what LiveCode Ltd. is including with their Biz package, so we're on our way on that one. Again today?s usability standards for visual editors would include git integration as a minimum, even for visually designed elements. Sure this would require LiveCode to add object state serialisation Of the IDE?s I know both Delphi and Xcode include object state serialisation. Vector graphics drawing tools do. Again it is something you would expect in a modern visual editor. > > 3. Support of Multiple targets (like Xcode) > > What are "multiple targets" in an IDE? Very much as Monte said. Specifically would be the ability to define both test, debug and distribution targets. The test target would cause an automated test suite to run, the debug target would build and run a version including additional debugging code etc. With LiveCode?s cross-platform credentials, it should be possible to select the iOS test target (one for each device), click-on run and your stack should be run in an iOS simulator. Similar for Android. Again, I see these as features to be part of today?s usability standards. The issue here is that the promise of a ?new visual editor designed around today?s usability standards? is extremely broad. It means different things to different people depending on their context. I think it?s great from a marketing perspective, it has something to attract a lot of people, and it's horrible from a customer satisfaction perspective as most people will be disappointed when it doesn?t meet their expectation. Regards Peter From ambassador at fourthworld.com Tue Aug 18 00:51:26 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 21:51:26 -0700 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card (Updated) In-Reply-To: <8953B9C7-09C6-462C-9E4C-60C1DE8C1292@gmail.com> References: <8953B9C7-09C6-462C-9E4C-60C1DE8C1292@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55D2B9CE.6080609@fourthworld.com> Peter W A Wood wrote: > I interpreted this clause from the latest Windows Store App Developer > Agreement, to mean that GPL software cannot be sold via the App Store: > > d. FOSS Software. If your App includes FOSS, (i) you are > responsible for compliance with all applicable FOSS license terms, > including any source code availability requirements, and (ii) it must > not cause any non-FOSS Microsoft software to become subject to the > terms of any FOSS license. > I could well be wrong though. Seems very accepting of FOSS. I can't imagine anyone would try to distribute something that places restrictions on the OS vendor. I haven't spent much time looking, but I haven't heard any objections from the Free Software Foundation, and they're usually quite vocal about such things. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From peterwawood at gmail.com Tue Aug 18 01:02:13 2015 From: peterwawood at gmail.com (Peter W A Wood) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 13:02:13 +0800 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card (Updated) In-Reply-To: <55D2B9CE.6080609@fourthworld.com> References: <8953B9C7-09C6-462C-9E4C-60C1DE8C1292@gmail.com> <55D2B9CE.6080609@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <590C341B-2C72-4C2F-B0A5-1DE4736F51F8@gmail.com> Richard > On 18 Aug 2015, at 12:51, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > Peter W A Wood wrote: > > > I interpreted this clause from the latest Windows Store App Developer > > Agreement, to mean that GPL software cannot be sold via the App Store: > > > > d. FOSS Software. If your App includes FOSS, (i) you are > > responsible for compliance with all applicable FOSS license terms, > > including any source code availability requirements, and (ii) it must > > not cause any non-FOSS Microsoft software to become subject to the > > terms of any FOSS license. > > I could well be wrong though. > > Seems very accepting of FOSS. I can't imagine anyone would try to distribute something that places restrictions on the OS vendor. > > I haven't spent much time looking, but I haven't heard any objections from the Free Software Foundation, and they're usually quite vocal about such things. I believe that the statement ? it must not cause any non-FOSS Microsoft software to become subject to the terms of any FOSS license.? would specifically exclude the use of GPL licensed software - http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/12/08/open_source_windows_8_windows_store/ Regards Peter From ambassador at fourthworld.com Tue Aug 18 01:03:10 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 22:03:10 -0700 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: <1439870306.55d2ad62beedf@www.server101.com> References: <1439870306.55d2ad62beedf@www.server101.com> Message-ID: <55D2BC8E.8060506@fourthworld.com> RunRevPlanet wrote: > Here is my point and regret: every month that a new user downloads LiveCode, > plays with the IDE, and then leaves (likely never return) and laughs with her > colleagues about a code editor that doesn't have bookmarks or search and replace > in selected text, is a month wasted in building up the LiveCode user base. > > Forget the big plans and clever stuff like code completion or code tips, just > deliver basic functionality that should be standard in any IDE worthy of he name > Integrated Development Environment straight out of the box and then maybe the > "tire kickers" will stay and the number of users grow. Been meaning to say that your earlier to-do list was a most excellent one. But what you wrote here is so compellingly clear and succinct, I hope it's well understood. The other stuff is cool, but let's keep it real: it's a scripting language, and it needs a world-class editor. The editor is where any user of any scripting language will be spending most of their time, so no matter how cool anything else is the experience will diminish if the editor isn't top-notch. Besides, the script editor is what the team needs to work on LiveCode, and what all of us need to contribute, so there's nothing but reasons to make it the #1 priority. The script editor got a good makeover a few years ago, but it's grown since then and has become Third Level Slow on the Gaskin Inverse Performance Scale: 1. Measurably Slow 2. Noticeably Slow 3. Annoyingly Slow 4. Prohibitively Slow It's not quite at 4 yet, but when a 3.0GHz Haswell has trouble keeping up with my slow typing I figure it's being asked to work way too hard. Probably a lot of opportunity for optimization there, and along with it a chance to tidy it up a bit, add the code completion newcomers keep asking for every month in the forums, and flatten appearances along the way. If I were running the show (and there are many reasons most people are glad I'm not) I'd take my best engineers and put them on the script editor full-time until it's clean, robust, and performant. Then I'd put them on the debugger. And only when those two are air-tight would I resume work on anything else. Because unless those two are air-tight, nothing else matters. All the cool new greenfield stuff will be just a playground for an aging audience of a fixed size if newcomers are disappointed with very basic essentials. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Tue Aug 18 01:03:52 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 00:03:52 -0500 Subject: Distribute beta versions of iOS app In-Reply-To: <55D29FC3.4090704@hindu.org> References: <4417607974232833140@unknownmsgid> <55D294C5.6020605@hyperactivesw.com> <55D29FC3.4090704@hindu.org> Message-ID: <55D2BCB8.3070501@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/17/2015 10:00 PM, Brahmanathaswami wrote: > *AirLaunch FTP* > > AirLaunch provides a built-in FTP client that will upload all the files > for you, so there's no need to leave LiveCode. Or if you're using > Dropbox, just move the files into the Public folder and you won't have > to upload anything at all. > > Your 10 last-used server logins are stored securely with SSL, so you > only have to enter them once. After that, choose it from the list." > > uses SFTP to transfer to the server? How did you do that? No, it doesn't use SFTP for the actual transfer. The app stores up to 10 URLs and passwords for various server logins so that you don't have to re-enter them every time you want to do an upload. They're stored encrypted so that they're safe on disk, but for now we're still stuck with regular FTP for the actual file transfers. You don't have to use the FTP in AirLaunch though, you can move the files to the server using any FTP client. There doesn't seem to be much risk using unencrypted FTP though, since no one can use your app except those who are listed in your developer profile. It won't install or run for anyone else. For your other question: > Do I read that it is a simple as supplying a URL like this: > > https://www.himalayanacademy.com/apps/MyNewApp.app > > and sending that to someone who is on the provisioning profile? Not exactly. The app itself can't be distributed as-is, you need to build a special distribution package. That's the tedious part that AirLaunch automates. You can find info on how to do that on the web. It's a lot of futzing around, and ater a while I got tired of it and wrote AirLaunch. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Tue Aug 18 01:20:22 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 22:20:22 -0700 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card (Updated) In-Reply-To: <590C341B-2C72-4C2F-B0A5-1DE4736F51F8@gmail.com> References: <590C341B-2C72-4C2F-B0A5-1DE4736F51F8@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55D2C096.8080301@fourthworld.com> Peter W A Wood wrote: > I believe that the statement ? it must not cause any non-FOSS > Microsoft software to become subject to the terms of any FOSS > license.? would specifically exclude the use of GPL licensed software > - The Register is normally a very good source for tech stuff, but the author tips his hand as being a bit interpretive, first noting that Microsoft themselves wrote: 'FOSS' means any software licensed under an Open Source Initiative Approved License.? ..but then editorializing this assumption: The invitation does not extend to GPL. Microsoft?s agreement continues: ?If your app includes FOSS, it must not cause any non-FOSS Microsoft software to become subject to the terms of any FOSS license.? Although Microsoft didn't name it, it's talking about GPL. But is it? GPL v2 and v3 are both on the OSI list of "approved" licenses (whatever that means; OSI is a much younger org than FSF, and while I appreciate their work and tend toward their politics more than the FSF's, naming their list "Approved" complicates things unnecessarily, and IMNSHO smacks of simple granstanding). More to the point, if this author's interpretation is correct, and everything Microsoft has been doing to further embrace open source in the years since is somehow wrong, then applying that equally it means that no one could distribute any GPL-governed software on any platform but Linux. That would be a rare view. Rare enough that I've not seen anyone else suggest it. Then again, with open source growing as it is and the GPL licenses comprising a majority of those, that would be one more reason for more major orgs to switch to Linux. :) -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From peter.brett at livecode.com Tue Aug 18 01:26:25 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 06:26:25 +0100 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: <55D2A859.8040006@fourthworld.com> References: <55D2A859.8040006@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <9c874359530177385eb1d0051d27492c@livecode.com> On 2015-08-18 04:36, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Peter W A Wood wrote: > >>> On 18 Aug 2015, at 08:13, Richard Gaskin wrote: >>> >>> What usability standards do you feel are not well reflected in the >>> current IDE, and if Kevin made you IDE Czar tomorrow what are the >>> first three things you'd do to fix that? >> >> 1. Intelligent Code Completion (like intelliSense) > > I keep hearing talk about that, but it's not on the Road Map and given > the number of tasks in the queue it may be a long time before it shows > up. It's high up on our priority list, and we've discussed it extensively within the team (we even have an extremely incomplete proof of concept). We'd really like to have it for internal use, and we know that it'll be a big, big usability improvement for the IDE. On the other hand, our priority list is very long, and there's still a lot of things above it. My *guess* is that we'll have something basic out by the end of the year (please don't bring pitchforks and torches if I'm wrong). Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Engine Development Team From bogdanoff at me.com Tue Aug 18 01:44:58 2015 From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 22:44:58 -0700 Subject: Restore corrupted stack In-Reply-To: <7D08EBB6-2CCB-4A65-9CCF-8294E32E53F3@iotecdigital.com> References: <0FE26C6B-52A1-472A-9A7D-F5EF80C1913A@me.com> <55CF827B.7080203@hyperactivesw.com> <7D08EBB6-2CCB-4A65-9CCF-8294E32E53F3@iotecdigital.com> Message-ID: <0F2A8BCF-A1CB-440D-A0E2-40591821CB4F@me.com> I?m aware of the tilde file naming while saving a stack. I didn?t see that. I saw this sort of corruption in the past (LC 5 or 6) where a stack functions correctly as far as I could tell while it is open. When it is closed and reopened the corruption message appears. In my case, I left the LC 7 stack open for some days, while making backups from the Finder. Not until I quit and reopened it did I find out it was bad. I have since rescripted my lost work?meanwhile making text document backups of important scripts. Peter Bogdanoff UCLA > On Aug 17, 2015, at 8:59 AM, Bob Sneidar wrote: > > This happened to me the first time I opened a stack in version 7. Check to see if there is a stack file with a tilde (~) in the name in the same folder as the original stack. When LC attempts to convert a stack, it saves the old stack using a tilde in the name so you can recover if something has gone horribly awry. This file can be renamed and opened in the old version of LC. > > If you can do all this, the next thing to do is subscribe to a decent cloud based backup system that has versioning, so you can recover in case things go catastrophically awry (not to be confused with horribly awry, which is not nearly as terrible as catastrophic). > > Bob S > > > On Aug 15, 2015, at 11:18 , J. Landman Gay > wrote: > > On 8/14/2015 11:12 PM, Peter Bogdanoff wrote: > Yes, I understand the change in stack format. Unfortunately the stack > won?t open in any version of LC 7. I always get the stack corrupted > dialog. > > In that case I think the team would like to see the stack, so it's probably time for a bug report. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Tue Aug 18 01:59:14 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 00:59:14 -0500 Subject: Restore corrupted stack In-Reply-To: <0F2A8BCF-A1CB-440D-A0E2-40591821CB4F@me.com> References: <0FE26C6B-52A1-472A-9A7D-F5EF80C1913A@me.com> <55CF827B.7080203@hyperactivesw.com> <7D08EBB6-2CCB-4A65-9CCF-8294E32E53F3@iotecdigital.com> <0F2A8BCF-A1CB-440D-A0E2-40591821CB4F@me.com> Message-ID: <55D2C9B2.3020705@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/18/2015 12:44 AM, Peter Bogdanoff wrote: > I saw this sort of corruption in the past (LC 5 or 6) where a stack > functions correctly as far as I could tell while it is open. When it > is closed and reopened the corruption message appears. In my case, I > left the LC 7 stack open for some days, while making backups from the > Finder. Not until I quit and reopened it did I find out it was bad. Now you've got me worried. I've been working on a LC 7 stack for days too without closing it. Please send your corrupted stack to the QCC so they can fix it before it happens to me too. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From feed at smpcsupport.com Tue Aug 18 02:04:38 2015 From: feed at smpcsupport.com (RunRevPlanet) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 16:04:38 +1000 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: <9c874359530177385eb1d0051d27492c@livecode.com> References: <55D2A859.8040006@fourthworld.com> <9c874359530177385eb1d0051d27492c@livecode.com> Message-ID: <1439877878.55d2caf6dbb62@www.server101.com> Richard said: > All the cool new greenfield stuff will > be just a playground for an aging > audience of a fixed size if newcomers are > disappointed with very basic > essentials. That's the thing, because I know how *awesome* LiveCode is, I have been willing to put up with the IDE as it stands. Then the Kickstarter Campaign reached the target, and gave me hope that the IDE would improve. But when LiveCode 8.0 DP came along (and internal debugging code notwithstanding) it is disappointing. I was under the false impressions that after putting up with 7.0, version 8.0 was to be the good one. But no, it is even slower and it feels like it is conspiring to waste my time when I try to do tests as have to watch as menus redraw, the editor scrolling, or I am waiting for the text cursor to appear. Richard said: > If I were running the show (and there > are many reasons most people are glad > I'm not) I'd take my best engineers > and put them on the script editor > full-time until it's clean, robust, > and performant. Wise words. If the LiveCode tech blog had periodic updates about this sort of work (not the you won't believe the amazing things we have for you in the future type) and DP builds so we can test and feedback, then I would feel much more easy about the direction and ability of LiveCode to deliver. -- Scott McDonald "Components, Controls, Tools and Resources for LiveCode" www.runrevplanet.com From feed at smpcsupport.com Tue Aug 18 02:06:55 2015 From: feed at smpcsupport.com (RunRevPlanet) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 16:06:55 +1000 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: <9c874359530177385eb1d0051d27492c@livecode.com> References: <55D2A859.8040006@fourthworld.com> <9c874359530177385eb1d0051d27492c@livecode.com> Message-ID: <1439878015.55d2cb7f23b94@www.server101.com> Hello Peter, Any chance of some basic improvements like edit bookmarks, or find and replace in text selections, with better keyboard shortcuts before Intelligent Code Completion? Peter TB Brett said: > My *guess* is that we'll have something > basic out by the end of the year -- Scott McDonald "Components, Controls, Tools and Resources for LiveCode" www.runrevplanet.com From lfredricks at proactive-intl.com Tue Aug 18 02:19:34 2015 From: lfredricks at proactive-intl.com (Lynn Fredricks) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 23:19:34 -0700 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card (Updated) In-Reply-To: <55D2C096.8080301@fourthworld.com> References: <590C341B-2C72-4C2F-B0A5-1DE4736F51F8@gmail.com> <55D2C096.8080301@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <75F88FFCBB5746B2A2422091BE6F5826@GATEWAY> > "If your app includes FOSS, it must not cause any > non-FOSS Microsoft > software to become subject to the terms of any FOSS license." > Although Microsoft didn't name it, it's talking about GPL. > > But is it? GPL v2 and v3 are both on the OSI list of "approved" > licenses (whatever that means; OSI is a much younger org than > FSF, and while I appreciate their work and tend toward their > politics more than the FSF's, naming their list "Approved" > complicates things unnecessarily, and IMNSHO smacks of simple > granstanding). I think the writer is a bit off here, and maybe Microsoft is reiterating something that should be obvious, but for some may not be. My read on this is that "you can use any of these licenses", but regardless, you understand that your license cannot effectively create an unauthorized sublicense of a non FOSS "whatever" as a FOSS "whatever". For example, you cannot use my closed source component in your FOSS project and therefore sublicense and release my closed source component as FOSS. Or am I misreading this? Best regards, Lynn Fredricks Paradigma Software http://www.paradigmasoft.com Valentina Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Business Reports & Database Server From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Tue Aug 18 02:32:14 2015 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe | M-R-D) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 08:32:14 +0200 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card (Updated) In-Reply-To: References: <43CD8158-FDFC-4DB0-A695-D8E8832C2E92@gmail.com> <0CE68BAF-D002-41EB-AEB7-D06C672216DF@gmail.com> Message-ID: > Am 18.08.2015 um 04:45 schrieb Peter W A Wood : > > There have been quite a few comments and clearly a number of different views amongst members of the community. I would like to add my perspective. > > The LiveCode Kickstarter campaign was very unusual in that the LiveCode could fulfil all of the rewards without actually having to complete the project. The rewards consisted of gifts and existing LiveCode products. > > In one sense, LiveCode completed the Kickstarter campaign when all the rewards had been delivered. I?m sure that Kickstarter would take this view. But then the Kickstarter campaign is not yet completed. ;) The printed dictionary reward was not yet sent. Matthias > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From peterwawood at gmail.com Tue Aug 18 03:15:34 2015 From: peterwawood at gmail.com (Peter W A Wood) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 15:15:34 +0800 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card (Updated) In-Reply-To: References: <43CD8158-FDFC-4DB0-A695-D8E8832C2E92@gmail.com> <0CE68BAF-D002-41EB-AEB7-D06C672216DF@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3B0A222F-0B7C-4A67-81FA-7C365DBE5AD2@gmail.com> Matthias > On 18 Aug 2015, at 14:32, Matthias Rebbe | M-R-D wrote: > > > > >> Am 18.08.2015 um 04:45 schrieb Peter W A Wood : >> >> There have been quite a few comments and clearly a number of different views amongst members of the community. I would like to add my perspective. >> >> The LiveCode Kickstarter campaign was very unusual in that the LiveCode could fulfil all of the rewards without actually having to complete the project. The rewards consisted of gifts and existing LiveCode products. >> >> In one sense, LiveCode completed the Kickstarter campaign when all the rewards had been delivered. I?m sure that Kickstarter would take this view. > > But then the Kickstarter campaign is not yet completed. ;) The printed dictionary reward was not yet sent. Thanks. I missed the printed dictionary reward. "New & Revised PRINTED LIVECODE SYNTAX DICTIONARIES with hundreds of updated language terms after final Kickstarter project delivery? So I was wrong and the rewards were connected to the project after all. I wonder what ?the final Kickstarter project delivery? means in practical terms. All stretch goals completed? I will update my report card. Regards Peter From peterwawood at gmail.com Tue Aug 18 03:21:39 2015 From: peterwawood at gmail.com (Peter W A Wood) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 15:21:39 +0800 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card (Updated) In-Reply-To: <94AAAF4B-AA3C-4060-A118-555AD27C0211@gmail.com> References: <43CD8158-FDFC-4DB0-A695-D8E8832C2E92@gmail.com> <0CE68BAF-D002-41EB-AEB7-D06C672216DF@gmail.com> <94AAAF4B-AA3C-4060-A118-555AD27C0211@gmail.com> Message-ID: <9DB908CF-4477-4EDA-8864-1713DC5134F7@gmail.com> LIVECODE KICKSTARTER REPORT CARD -Version 4 The first thing to note is that LiveCode Ltd has open-sourced LiveCode under the GPL licence. It is freely accessible on Github. The second thing to note is that the majority of the Kickstarter rewards have been delivered. Only delivery of printed copies of a new updated dictionary after final Kickstarter project delivery remains to be completed. There seems to have been three other major deliverables promised in the main campaign: Deliverable Status Re-engineer the whole platform Completed A new technology: ?Open Language? Early alpha of the pre-requisite LiveCode Builder released (LiveCode 8.0) Open Language will be in a release after LiveCode 8.0 A new visual editor Early alpha released (LiveCode 8.0) There were a number of deliverables promised through stretch goals which were met: Deliverable Status Resolution Independence Completed Pluggable Themes Pluggable Themes will be in a release after LiveCode 8.0 Cocoa Completed Physics Engine Physics Engine will be in a release after LiveCode 8.0 Windows/Phone 8 Theme Windows/Phone 8 Theme will be in a release after LiveCode 8.0 Vector Shape Object Vector Shape Object will be in a release after LiveCode 8.0 Reworked Multimedia Support New Player Completed on OS X. Windows in release LiveCode 8.0. Linux ??? Multi Channel Sound OS X : Linux : Windows ??? Sound Recording ??? New Browser Control OS X, Windows completed. Linux with LiveCode 8.0 I?d appreciate if somebody could let me know the status of the items about which I?m unclear and any mistakes I have made. Regards Peter From rolf.kocherhans at id.uzh.ch Tue Aug 18 06:17:01 2015 From: rolf.kocherhans at id.uzh.ch (Rolf Kocherhans) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 12:17:01 +0200 Subject: BAF and other things - I am confused... Message-ID: I didn?t wanna chime in into all those discussions, but I am totally confused by the LiveCode mothership recently, and I have to now. I am confused with the new BAF License and all the talk about SVN. It is very clear to me that SVN does make a lot of sense to everyone. Therefore I programmed a plugin and made it available to all for free already in 2012 ( http://livecodeshare.runrev.com/stack/669/Kochi-Mini-SVN-Installer ). Monte also had a go at the subject in a much more professional way ! Now when I read about Business App Framework features here: https://livecode.com/products/livecode-platform/pricing/ it says: ?????????- The BAF separates out parts of a project into individual files, with template definitions and scripts stored as text. ?????????- Is this not what SVN needs ? Can we now all stop talking about creating an SVN Plugin or beg LiveCode to incorporate SVN into the IDE because we now just need to buy the Business Edition since all the work is already done ? And if it is not so, can someone from the Mothership please show us in a Movie or similar way what the BAF exactly does ?! How could one decide to buy or not to buy it when we know so little about it. Second question: The new Widgets and the new LiveCode Builder language, when and how do we get more information about how to use the Language ? I had a look at all the movies and blog posts, but to be honest, for me the present info is not at all enough to feel confident that I can create widgets on my own ! Can the mothership please chime in ? Cheers Rolf From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Tue Aug 18 07:59:35 2015 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 07:59:35 -0400 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card (Updated) In-Reply-To: <9DB908CF-4477-4EDA-8864-1713DC5134F7@gmail.com> References: <43CD8158-FDFC-4DB0-A695-D8E8832C2E92@gmail.com> <0CE68BAF-D002-41EB-AEB7-D06C672216DF@gmail.com> <94AAAF4B-AA3C-4060-A118-555AD27C0211@gmail.com> <9DB908CF-4477-4EDA-8864-1713DC5134F7@gmail.com> Message-ID: You'd think that a software company would make the dictionary available as a searchable e-book too, if not an actual mobile app for all supported platforms, and made with LiveCode itself. On Aug 18, 2015 3:22 AM, "Peter W A Wood" wrote: > > LIVECODE KICKSTARTER REPORT CARD -Version 4 > > The first thing to note is that LiveCode Ltd has open-sourced LiveCode > under the GPL licence. It is freely accessible on Github. > > The second thing to note is that the majority of the Kickstarter rewards > have been delivered. Only delivery of printed copies of a new updated > dictionary after final Kickstarter project delivery remains to be completed. > > There seems to have been three other major deliverables promised in the > main campaign: > > Deliverable Status > Re-engineer the whole platform Completed > A new technology: ?Open Language? Early alpha of the > pre-requisite LiveCode Builder released (LiveCode 8.0) > Open > Language will be in a release after LiveCode 8.0 > A new visual editor Early alpha > released (LiveCode 8.0) > > There were a number of deliverables promised through stretch goals which > were met: > > Deliverable Status > Resolution Independence Completed > Pluggable Themes Pluggable Themes > will be in a release after LiveCode 8.0 > Cocoa Completed > Physics Engine Physics Engine > will be in a release after LiveCode 8.0 > Windows/Phone 8 Theme Windows/Phone 8 Theme will > be in a release after LiveCode 8.0 > Vector Shape Object Vector Shape > Object will be in a release after LiveCode 8.0 > Reworked Multimedia Support > New Player Completed on OS X. > Windows in release LiveCode 8.0. Linux ??? > Multi Channel Sound OS X : Linux : > Windows ??? > Sound Recording ??? > New Browser Control OS X, Windows > completed. Linux with LiveCode 8.0 > > I?d appreciate if somebody could let me know the status of the items about > which I?m unclear and any mistakes I have made. > > Regards > > Peter > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Tue Aug 18 08:33:26 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 15:33:26 +0300 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: <55D278BD.6060502@fourthworld.com> References: <1439848660.55d258d4cd035@www.server101.com> <55D278BD.6060502@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <55D32616.1020102@gmail.com> On 18/08/15 03:13, Richard Gaskin wrote: > RunRevPlanet wrote: > > > Richard Gaskin wrote: > >> RunRevPlanet wrote: > >>> I understand that things take longer than expected, but when I read > >>> the Kickstarter Campaign it is clear that the new IDE is a core > >>> part of the next generation. It is not a stretch goal, and is > >>> repeatedly emphasised as a core part of the project. > >> > >> Why? > > > > Why do I care about a new IDE, because I know programmers who won't > > use LiveCode because of it. Sure, that is their loss and they miss > > out on the wonderful tool that is the xTalk language and LiveCode. > > > > But the fact remains that the way a new IDE was a core feature of > > Kickstarter Campaign acknowledges that: > > > > 1. The current IDE is less than beautiful. > > 2. The current IDE is not designed around today?s usability standards. I'd be interested to know where one can find these "usability standards", and by whom they are authorised to be 'standards' - personally I think "today's usability standards" is another of those essentially empty phrases used to bully people. If by "today's usability standards" it is meant that LiveCode's IDE has to look like all the other IDEs out there, then it is time for everybody to standard up and say "Cheese!" together, as the great thing about LiveCode is that IT IS NOT THE SAME as all the other IDEs out there, and nor should it be. > Being new will only guarantee that it's new, not necessarily that it > will improve the workflow. "improve the workflow" - Ooo, another load of old testicles - I wonder who actually has "a workflow"? Surely one works the way one works (inefficiently, in my case) - the IDE is, after all, just the icing on the cake, and, well, yes, the Metacard IDE does leave a bit to be desired (and, Lo! Kevin worked that out donkey's years ago, and we have been through 2 fairly similar LiveCode IDEs). Now, as the LiveCode IDE is a bit like LEGO, i.e. it is made up of bits and pieces that fit together, one can "monkey around with it" as much as one wants to end up with a GUI one likes (I know, I've monkeyed, and anyone is welcome to one of my bananas), so the need for a "new" IDE/GUI is a bit unclear. > > What usability standards do you feel are not well reflected in the > current IDE, and if Kevin made you IDE Czar tomorrow what are the > first three things you'd do to fix that? > If Kevin made me IDE Czar I would suggest a series of online pages to explain the current IDE far rather than make a new one. But, much as Kevin may love me (?????), he is not going to make me IDE Cazr, nor would I want that job. The 'problem' is "that picture" linked with a promise. One cannot put the daemons back in Pandora's box. Kevin and Co. must be cursing under their collective breath about that picture. What MIGHT solve the 'problem' is a wee guide on how to muck around with the IDE/GUI so one can make a bespoke version should one so wish. Personally I just make the menuBar and the toolBar black with white text. Richmond. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Tue Aug 18 08:36:03 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 15:36:03 +0300 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card (Updated) In-Reply-To: <0CE68BAF-D002-41EB-AEB7-D06C672216DF@gmail.com> References: <43CD8158-FDFC-4DB0-A695-D8E8832C2E92@gmail.com> <0CE68BAF-D002-41EB-AEB7-D06C672216DF@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55D326B3.5040208@gmail.com> On 18/08/15 05:12, Peter W A Wood wrote: > I have updated my KickStarter report card thanks to the information about the new player for Windows being planned for LiveCode 8.0 that Tom Bodine kindly provided. > > As I understand, the phrase ?new visual editor? refers to the new IDE. > > LIVECODE KICKSTARTER REPORT CARD > > The first thing to note is that all the Kickstarter rewards have been delivered. > > There seems to have been three major deliverables promised in the main campaign: > > Deliverable Status > Re-engineer the whole platform Completed > A new technology: ?Open Language? Early alpha of the pre-requisite LiveCode Builder released (LiveCode 8.0) > Open Language will be in a release after LiveCode 8.0 > A new visual editor Early alpha released (LiveCode 8.0) > > There were a number of deliverables promised through stretch goals which were met: > > Deliverable Status > Resolution Independence Completed > Pluggable Themes Pluggable Themes will be in a release after LiveCode 8.0 > Cocoa Completed > Physics Engine Physics Engine will be in a release after LiveCode 8.0 > Windows/Phone 8 Theme Windows/Phone 8 Theme will be in a release after LiveCode 8.0 > Vector Shape Object Vector Shape Object will be in a release after LiveCode 8.0 > Reworked Multimedia Support > New Player Completed on OS X. Windows in release LiveCode 8.0. Linux ??? > Multi Channel Sound OS X : Linux : Windows ??? > Sound Recording ??? > New Browser Control OS X, Windows completed. Linux with LiveCode 8.0 > > I?d appreciate if somebody could let me know the status of the items about which I?m unclear and any mistakes I have made. > > Regards > > Peter > > > > Does "after LiveCode 8" mean "8.1" or does it mean "9 or maybe 10"? Because that could make quite a difference. Richmond. From fraser.gordon at livecode.com Tue Aug 18 08:43:10 2015 From: fraser.gordon at livecode.com (Fraser Gordon) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 13:43:10 +0100 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: <55D32616.1020102@gmail.com> References: <1439848660.55d258d4cd035@www.server101.com> <55D278BD.6060502@fourthworld.com> <55D32616.1020102@gmail.com> Message-ID: <68A8C3F2-ADFD-4F54-8289-3EC5BA53201D@livecode.com> On 18 Aug 2015, at 13:33, Richmond wrote: > > If Kevin made me IDE Czar [?] I, for one, welcome our new IDE overlord ;) Fraser From dixonja at hotmail.co.uk Tue Aug 18 08:43:53 2015 From: dixonja at hotmail.co.uk (John Dixon) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 13:43:53 +0100 Subject: BAF and other things - I am confused... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > From: rolf.kocherhans at id.uzh.ch > Second question: > > The new Widgets and the new LiveCode Builder language, when and how do we get more > information about how to use the Language ? > > I had a look at all the movies and blog posts, but to be honest, for me the present info is not > at all enough to feel confident that I can create widgets on my own ! > > > Can the mothership please chime in ? > The spec is here: https://github.com/runrev/livecode-ide/blob/develop/Documentation/guides/Extending%20LiveCode.md#documentation-markup From peter.brett at livecode.com Tue Aug 18 08:50:39 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 13:50:39 +0100 Subject: BAF and other things - I am confused... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <10154618cb54a9e9c13ea505b3d6e6f6@livecode.com> On 2015-08-18 11:17, Rolf Kocherhans wrote: > The new Widgets and the new LiveCode Builder language, when and how do > we get more > information about how to use the Language ? > > I had a look at all the movies and blog posts, but to be honest, for > me the present info is not > at all enough to feel confident that I can create widgets on my own ! > I recommend working through the step-by-step guide that Georgia wrote: https://livecode.com/write-a-widget-in-8-steps/ It's quite easy to follow and it's a great intro to LiveCode Builder. Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Engine Development Team From colinholgate at gmail.com Tue Aug 18 08:52:14 2015 From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 08:52:14 -0400 Subject: Distribute beta versions of iOS app In-Reply-To: <55D2BCB8.3070501@hyperactivesw.com> References: <4417607974232833140@unknownmsgid> <55D294C5.6020605@hyperactivesw.com> <55D29FC3.4090704@hindu.org> <55D2BCB8.3070501@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <8A41455B-E916-4D2E-B813-6FA462524795@gmail.com> The server itself has to be HTTPS, for over the air installs to work on iOS 7.1 or later. > On Aug 18, 2015, at 1:03 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > >> >> uses SFTP to transfer to the server? How did you do that? > > No, it doesn't use SFTP for the actual transfer. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Tue Aug 18 09:00:10 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 16:00:10 +0300 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: <1439870306.55d2ad62beedf@www.server101.com> References: <1439870306.55d2ad62beedf@www.server101.com> Message-ID: <55D32C5A.8000108@gmail.com> On 18/08/15 06:58, RunRevPlanet wrote: > Peter said: > > > I have no doubt that these promises > > were very genuine. Clearly, LiveCode > > hasn?t been able to deliver them in > > the time they expected. > > I never doubt the sincerity of LiveCode Ltd. and the team behind it. I don't think anyone is impugning LiveCode's sincerity, but actions and intentions are not the same thing. I do feel that somehow, LiveCode is behaving like a lot of children trying to be terribly grownup and not managing it. The 'main problem' as I see it does NOT have to do with the Kickstarter, the goals, the stretch goals, the BAF, or anything at all like that. What is a problem is the way LiveCode come across in their publicity stuff they keep e-mailing us: it appears arrogant, inconsiderate, and most decisions they have taken are inadequately explained (otherwise we wouldn't have had a gazillion postings about this recently). I do feel that all the Kickstarter donors, at the very least, deserve more comprehensive and well-thought out explanations of decisions taken by LiveCode central, and those who hold commercial licences probably deserve more. Hence my remark recently (which nobody commented on) that LiveCode might do well to hire a PR officer to do the PR and let the clever programming boffins get on with developing LiveCode. Let's have some 'fun': 1. From now on children who don't do their homework at my school will be sent home forthwith, on the understanding that if they appear at the next class without the homework they will simply be ejected again. I will shout at them, hurl their books across the room and do my best to make them realise what stupid little sh*ts they are in front of the other children. 2. Unfortunately there has been an increase in children coming to classes without their homework. In an attempt to rectify this problem I will ask children who come without homework to sit in the entrance hall and do that homework. Obviously this is not really satisfactory as they will miss the teaching that takes place while they complete work they should have done at home. I would be grateful if parents could explain this to children, and while I realise that all parents lead busy lives, do their best to ensure their children do do the small amount of homework they are given. Now those 2 paragraphs are theoretical messages I could send to parents of children who attend my school. I am sure that everybody will realise that #2 is a far better way of dealing with the situation, as well as the fact that it is couched in more tactful language. > > But when a major feature which would be a tangible improvement for *everyone* > using LiveCode is pushed to the end of the roadmap it is frustrating. Indeed, and if LiveCode could give us some sort of a GANTT chart that was regularly updated so that each of us could see how each of her/his pet stretch goals was coming along that might make things less frustrating. Certainly one of the things I understand about Open Source is 'Open' and that means not hiding one's light under a bushel, and some sort of accountability. > > * First it was open source that was going to help make the Next Generation IDE. > > * Then it was the magic of widgets that would boost productivity. > > * But I later discover the "LiveCode Builder" language needs to be finished to > empower widgets and IDE. 2 years after the projected completion of all the goals and stretch goals and many are "coming after LiveCode 8" does make one wonder. > > * In the meantime, LiveCode HTML 5 deployment is also coming, soon... > > Here is my point and regret: every month that a new user downloads LiveCode, > plays with the IDE, and then leaves (likely never return) and laughs with her > colleagues about a code editor that doesn't have bookmarks or search and replace > in selected text, is a month wasted in building up the LiveCode user base. > > Forget the big plans and clever stuff like code completion or code tips, just > deliver basic functionality that should be standard in any IDE worthy of he name > Integrated Development Environment straight out of the box and then maybe the > "tire kickers" will stay and the number of users grow. > > -- > Scott McDonald > "Components, Controls, Tools and Resources for LiveCode" > www.runrevplanet.com > > Richmond. From peterwawood at gmail.com Tue Aug 18 09:07:58 2015 From: peterwawood at gmail.com (Peter W A Wood) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 21:07:58 +0800 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card (Updated) In-Reply-To: <55D326B3.5040208@gmail.com> References: <43CD8158-FDFC-4DB0-A695-D8E8832C2E92@gmail.com> <0CE68BAF-D002-41EB-AEB7-D06C672216DF@gmail.com> <55D326B3.5040208@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4FD8F6E2-F8EA-4B2D-9D64-31E712F3AAEE@gmail.com> Richmond > Does "after LiveCode 8" mean "8.1" or does it mean "9 or maybe 10"? Because that could make quite a difference. It means that I don?t think it is going to be in any of the LiveCode 8.xx releases based on my memory of snippets of information on this list and in the forums. (Which could well be wrong). I didn?t know whether to use LiveCode 9 or LiveCode 10 for the major release after LiveCode 8. I remember it being mentioned by one of the LiveCode team that ?Open Language? was going to be such an improvement that the release of LiveCode that included would be called LiveCode 10. (To be fair to the LiveCode team, this was said before Windows 10 was announced as the name for Windows 8 + 1). Regards Peter From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Tue Aug 18 09:16:30 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 16:16:30 +0300 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card (Updated) In-Reply-To: <4FD8F6E2-F8EA-4B2D-9D64-31E712F3AAEE@gmail.com> References: <43CD8158-FDFC-4DB0-A695-D8E8832C2E92@gmail.com> <0CE68BAF-D002-41EB-AEB7-D06C672216DF@gmail.com> <55D326B3.5040208@gmail.com> <4FD8F6E2-F8EA-4B2D-9D64-31E712F3AAEE@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55D3302E.6000706@gmail.com> On 18/08/15 16:07, Peter W A Wood wrote: > Richmond > >> Does "after LiveCode 8" mean "8.1" or does it mean "9 or maybe 10"? Because that could make quite a difference. > It means that I don?t think it is going to be in any of the LiveCode 8.xx releases based on my memory of snippets of information on this list and in the forums. (Which could well be wrong). > > I didn?t know whether to use LiveCode 9 or LiveCode 10 for the major release after LiveCode 8. I remember it being mentioned by one of the LiveCode team that ?Open Language? was going to be such an improvement that the release of LiveCode that included would be called LiveCode 10. (To be fair to the LiveCode team, this was said before Windows 10 was announced as the name for Windows 8 + 1). > > Regards > > Peter > > > Surely some mistake there, aren't we expecting "LiveCode X" ? That's going to be a long, long wait for some of those Kickstarter goals. Richmond. From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Tue Aug 18 09:57:11 2015 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 09:57:11 -0400 Subject: BAF and other things - I am confused... In-Reply-To: <10154618cb54a9e9c13ea505b3d6e6f6@livecode.com> References: <10154618cb54a9e9c13ea505b3d6e6f6@livecode.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 8:50 AM, Peter TB Brett wrote: > On 2015-08-18 11:17, Rolf Kocherhans wrote: > > The new Widgets and the new LiveCode Builder language, when and how do >> we get more >> information about how to use the Language ? >> >> I had a look at all the movies and blog posts, but to be honest, for >> me the present info is not >> at all enough to feel confident that I can create widgets on my own ! >> >> > I recommend working through the step-by-step guide that Georgia wrote: > > https://livecode.com/write-a-widget-in-8-steps/ > > It's quite easy to follow and it's a great intro to LiveCode Builder. > > Peter > > -- > Dr Peter Brett > LiveCode Engine Development Team > > That is a great intro, but where are the details of the language? Since you "draw" with commands as in #5, how do you draw other shapes / objects, and set their attributes? ~Roger From pmbrig at gmail.com Tue Aug 18 10:16:24 2015 From: pmbrig at gmail.com (Peter M. Brigham) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 10:16:24 -0400 Subject: Bug getting group name, plse check In-Reply-To: References: <8F1224DA-0F8F-486A-AB82-204059790B3E@earthednet.org> <55D0B49F.1070400@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <0DC0B5CD-9013-43BE-A59C-4ED5FAA2E192@gmail.com> +1 -- bookmarked! -- Peter Peter M. Brigham pmbrig at gmail.com http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig On Aug 17, 2015, at 11:39 AM, Mike Bonner wrote: > Its pretty easy to set up a custom search engine in google. I created a > cse restricted to 4 sites. www.livecode.com forums.livecode.com > lessons.livecode.com and the nabble site. I'm sure there are settings that > might help it work better. From bonnmike at gmail.com Tue Aug 18 10:29:01 2015 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 08:29:01 -0600 Subject: Bug getting group name, plse check In-Reply-To: <0DC0B5CD-9013-43BE-A59C-4ED5FAA2E192@gmail.com> References: <8F1224DA-0F8F-486A-AB82-204059790B3E@earthednet.org> <55D0B49F.1070400@fourthworld.com> <0DC0B5CD-9013-43BE-A59C-4ED5FAA2E192@gmail.com> Message-ID: Theres so MUCH content in the forum, it seems to take over the results. Might be better to have it in a separate engine, and if there is still an online dictionary, set one up for that too. On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 8:16 AM, Peter M. Brigham wrote: > +1 -- bookmarked! > > -- Peter > > Peter M. Brigham > pmbrig at gmail.com > http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig > > On Aug 17, 2015, at 11:39 AM, Mike Bonner wrote: > > > Its pretty easy to set up a custom search engine in google. I created a > > cse restricted to 4 sites. www.livecode.com forums.livecode.com > > lessons.livecode.com and the nabble site. I'm sure there are settings > that > > might help it work better. > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From peter.brett at livecode.com Tue Aug 18 11:05:59 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 16:05:59 +0100 Subject: BAF and other things - I am confused... In-Reply-To: References: <10154618cb54a9e9c13ea505b3d6e6f6@livecode.com> Message-ID: <6b56776def5ef505368c4738ad13a47f@livecode.com> On 2015-08-18 14:57, Roger Eller wrote: >> >> I recommend working through the step-by-step guide that Georgia wrote: >> >> https://livecode.com/write-a-widget-in-8-steps/ >> >> It's quite easy to follow and it's a great intro to LiveCode Builder. >> > That is a great intro, but where are the details of the language? > Since > you "draw" with commands as in #5, how do you draw other shapes / > objects, > and set their attributes? If you go into the Dictionary in LiveCode 8: * use the menu at the top left to select the "LiveCode Builder" dictionary. * click on "library" on the left * select "com.livecode.canvas" from the list You will rewarded by a very long and comprehensive list of syntax related to drawing. Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Engine Development Team From jana.doughty at livecode.com Tue Aug 18 11:15:34 2015 From: jana.doughty at livecode.com (Jana Doughty) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 17:15:34 +0200 Subject: How to Go to The Edinburgh Fringe Festival Message-ID: <4ea630c8dcc25491ebe3e6c5fe6e2f13.squirrel@meg.on-rev.com> Hi Everyone, If you know Edinburgh, you might know The Fringe Festival. It's that time of year when street performers, dancers, DJs, and buskers take over the Royal Mile with flyers, music, and tomfoolery. It's awesome. Our staff came up with a list of recommended Fringe favorites. So whether you're an Edinburgh local looking for something to see or a LiveCode fan abroad, we hope you'll enjoy getting to know the Fringe's 2015 flavor! https://livecode.com/how-to-go-to-the-edinburgh-fringe-festival/ Thanks! Jana From brahma at hindu.org Tue Aug 18 15:10:07 2015 From: brahma at hindu.org (Brahmanathaswami) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 09:10:07 -1000 Subject: iOS Tab Bar Icon Limits Message-ID: <55D3830F.7070600@hindu.org> Will Apple reject your app if you have more than 5 items on the bottom tab bar? -- Swasti Astu, Be Well! Brahmanathaswami Kauai's Hindu Monastery www.HimalayanAcademy.com From dan at clearvisiontech.com Tue Aug 18 15:25:25 2015 From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 12:25:25 -0700 Subject: No Messages Until Scroll In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9BCB99C9-F288-4CC0-A66F-53863E44FFC0@clearvisiontech.com> Greeting! I'm having an issue with a group of objects receiving a touchStart (or touchEnd, mouseUp or mouseDown) message. The problem is on iOS only (haven't tried Android yet, but works fine on the Mac). This is a group of buttons that are being scrolled by a mobile scroller. If I drag the group so it scrolls even 1 pix, then it works. If the scroller (or group) hasn't scrolled at all since it was created, no messages are getting send to the group or any objects in the group. Anyone had this problem? Or know what might be causing this? Any advice is appreciated! -Dan From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Tue Aug 18 15:40:23 2015 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 15:40:23 -0400 Subject: No Messages Until Scroll In-Reply-To: <9BCB99C9-F288-4CC0-A66F-53863E44FFC0@clearvisiontech.com> References: <9BCB99C9-F288-4CC0-A66F-53863E44FFC0@clearvisiontech.com> Message-ID: <009501d0d9ed$b98e6d60$2cab4820$@net> Haven't had the problem. The only things off the top of my head is message path, layers or silently failing scripts. I'd put an answer dialog at the top of the mouseup handler for the group and button and see what you get. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Dan Friedman Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2015 3:25 PM To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Subject: No Messages Until Scroll Greeting! I'm having an issue with a group of objects receiving a touchStart (or touchEnd, mouseUp or mouseDown) message. The problem is on iOS only (haven't tried Android yet, but works fine on the Mac). This is a group of buttons that are being scrolled by a mobile scroller. If I drag the group so it scrolls even 1 pix, then it works. If the scroller (or group) hasn't scrolled at all since it was created, no messages are getting send to the group or any objects in the group. Anyone had this problem? Or know what might be causing this? Any advice is appreciated! -Dan _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Tue Aug 18 15:41:51 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 14:41:51 -0500 Subject: Importing UTF-8 files Message-ID: <55D38A7F.1050909@hyperactivesw.com> Should I be using "file" or "binfile" to retrieve unicode text from a UTF-8 text file? I thought I should be using binfile, but after textDecoding the data, text chunking and delimiters break when I do that. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From scott at tactilemedia.com Tue Aug 18 15:42:35 2015 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 12:42:35 -0700 Subject: No Messages Until Scroll In-Reply-To: <9BCB99C9-F288-4CC0-A66F-53863E44FFC0@clearvisiontech.com> References: <9BCB99C9-F288-4CC0-A66F-53863E44FFC0@clearvisiontech.com> Message-ID: Yes, I've run into this, or something related to it. It seems that controls within a scrolling group are non-responsive until the group has been scrolled (or received some scroll message). A workaround that seems to get things going is, after creating the scroller, set the scroll value of the scroller to some value, like 0 or its current scroll value. Once this value has been set, controls respond to mouse/touch events. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design On 8/18/15, 12:25 PM, "Dan Friedman" wrote: >Greeting! I'm having an issue with a group of objects receiving a >touchStart (or touchEnd, mouseUp or mouseDown) message. The problem is >on iOS only (haven't tried Android yet, but works fine on the Mac). This >is a group of buttons that are being scrolled by a mobile scroller. If I >drag the group so it scrolls even 1 pix, then it works. If the scroller >(or group) hasn't scrolled at all since it was created, no messages are >getting send to the group or any objects in the group. > >Anyone had this problem? Or know what might be causing this? Any advice >is appreciated! > >-Dan >_______________________________________________ >use-livecode mailing list >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dan at clearvisiontech.com Tue Aug 18 15:48:29 2015 From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 12:48:29 -0700 Subject: No Messages Until Scroll Message-ID: <9F1E2E5B-E0DB-40DF-8547-84F04DDE558C@clearvisiontech.com> Scott, mobileControlSet scrollerName,"vScroll",(mobileControlGet(scrollerName,"vScroll")) That did the trick! Many thanks! -Dan > Yes, I've run into this, or something related to it. It seems that controls within a scrolling group are non-responsive until the group has been scrolled (or received some scroll message). A workaround that seems to get things going is, after creating the scroller, set the scroll value of the scroller to some value, like 0 or its current scroll value. Once this value has been set, controls respond to mouse/touch events. > > > Regards, > > Scott Rossi > Creative Director > Tactile Media, UX/UI Design From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Tue Aug 18 16:04:01 2015 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 16:04:01 -0400 Subject: No Messages Until Scroll In-Reply-To: References: <9BCB99C9-F288-4CC0-A66F-53863E44FFC0@clearvisiontech.com> Message-ID: <009c01d0d9f1$06f21ae0$14d650a0$@net> Is this a bug or expected behavior? I guess I have never seen it because when I create the scroller I always set the v/h scroll to something even if it's zeros. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Scott Rossi Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2015 3:43 PM To: LiveCode Mail List Subject: Re: No Messages Until Scroll Yes, I've run into this, or something related to it. It seems that controls within a scrolling group are non-responsive until the group has been scrolled (or received some scroll message). A workaround that seems to get things going is, after creating the scroller, set the scroll value of the scroller to some value, like 0 or its current scroll value. Once this value has been set, controls respond to mouse/touch events. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design On 8/18/15, 12:25 PM, "Dan Friedman" wrote: >Greeting! I'm having an issue with a group of objects receiving a >touchStart (or touchEnd, mouseUp or mouseDown) message. The problem is >on iOS only (haven't tried Android yet, but works fine on the Mac). >This is a group of buttons that are being scrolled by a mobile >scroller. If I drag the group so it scrolls even 1 pix, then it works. >If the scroller (or group) hasn't scrolled at all since it was created, >no messages are getting send to the group or any objects in the group. > >Anyone had this problem? Or know what might be causing this? Any >advice is appreciated! > >-Dan >_______________________________________________ >use-livecode mailing list >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From brahma at hindu.org Tue Aug 18 16:32:43 2015 From: brahma at hindu.org (Brahmanathaswami) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 10:32:43 -1000 Subject: Copy and Paste from LiveCode text fld in Mobile Message-ID: <55D3966B.10303@hindu.org> USE CASE: I need to offer the user the ability to copy out text on mobile (not cut) for passing to twitter or email or facebook on both iOS and Android I am using a plain text field, "textContent" on a single card "textReader" unlocked, traversal on... for importing text files to the stack for users to read... and results from searches etc. When I open in Mobile...I don't get the option, on mouse down.,where the small copy, cut widget opens in iOS... where you can drag to make a selection... this would also be done on a scrollable region (since there is more text in the field than the the field can show...) Swasti Astu, Be Well! Brahmanathaswami Kauai's Hindu Monastery www.HimalayanAcademy.com From brahma at hindu.org Tue Aug 18 16:42:29 2015 From: brahma at hindu.org (Brahmanathaswami) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 10:42:29 -1000 Subject: Distribute beta versions of iOS app In-Reply-To: <55D2BCB8.3070501@hyperactivesw.com> References: <4417607974232833140@unknownmsgid> <55D294C5.6020605@hyperactivesw.com> <55D29FC3.4090704@hindu.org> <55D2BCB8.3070501@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <55D398B5.40308@hindu.org> We have budget for this and so I'm going to buy your app... least we can do for all that you give to us! I have FTP off on the server by default. no one from anywhere for any reason can log in with clear text, its just not done, period. (why LC HQ doesn't get this and provide this as part of lib URL is beyond me... One day you can add the option to use rSync provided the user has her SSH key installed... this also work/around no SFTP. J. Landman Gay wrote: > > Not exactly. The app itself can't be distributed as-is, you need to > build a special distribution package. That's the tedious part that > AirLaunch automates. You can find info on how to do that on the web. > It's a lot of futzing around, and ater a while I got tired of it and > wrote AirLaunch. From monte at sweattechnologies.com Tue Aug 18 16:35:56 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 06:35:56 +1000 Subject: Importing UTF-8 files In-Reply-To: <55D38A7F.1050909@hyperactivesw.com> References: <55D38A7F.1050909@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <3A17BDF5-51AF-472D-847F-6492682907F0@sweattechnologies.com> I don't think it would hurt to use file for utf-8 Sent from my iPhone > On 19 Aug 2015, at 5:41 am, J. Landman Gay wrote: > > Should I be using "file" or "binfile" to retrieve unicode text from a UTF-8 text file? I thought I should be using binfile, but after textDecoding the data, text chunking and delimiters break when I do that. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From scott at tactilemedia.com Tue Aug 18 16:42:29 2015 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 13:42:29 -0700 Subject: No Messages Until Scroll In-Reply-To: <009c01d0d9f1$06f21ae0$14d650a0$@net> References: <9BCB99C9-F288-4CC0-A66F-53863E44FFC0@clearvisiontech.com> <009c01d0d9f1$06f21ae0$14d650a0$@net> Message-ID: Most likely it's a bug. When you create a scroller, one would assume that the control's starting scroll value is zero, yes? Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design On 8/18/15, 1:04 PM, "Ralph DiMola" wrote: >Is this a bug or expected behavior? I guess I have never seen it because >when I create the scroller I always set the v/h scroll to something even >if >it's zeros. > >Ralph DiMola >IT Director >Evergreen Information Services >rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > >-----Original Message----- >From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On >Behalf >Of Scott Rossi >Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2015 3:43 PM >To: LiveCode Mail List >Subject: Re: No Messages Until Scroll > >Yes, I've run into this, or something related to it. It seems that >controls >within a scrolling group are non-responsive until the group has been >scrolled (or received some scroll message). A workaround that seems to >get >things going is, after creating the scroller, set the scroll value of the >scroller to some value, like 0 or its current scroll value. Once this >value >has been set, controls respond to mouse/touch events. > >Regards, > >Scott Rossi >Creative Director >Tactile Media, UX/UI Design > > > > >On 8/18/15, 12:25 PM, "Dan Friedman" wrote: > >>Greeting! I'm having an issue with a group of objects receiving a >>touchStart (or touchEnd, mouseUp or mouseDown) message. The problem is >>on iOS only (haven't tried Android yet, but works fine on the Mac). >>This is a group of buttons that are being scrolled by a mobile >>scroller. If I drag the group so it scrolls even 1 pix, then it works. >>If the scroller (or group) hasn't scrolled at all since it was created, >>no messages are getting send to the group or any objects in the group. >> >>Anyone had this problem? Or know what might be causing this? Any >>advice is appreciated! >> >>-Dan >>_______________________________________________ >>use-livecode mailing list >>use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>subscription preferences: >>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > >_______________________________________________ >use-livecode mailing list >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription >preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > >_______________________________________________ >use-livecode mailing list >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From scott at tactilemedia.com Tue Aug 18 16:47:05 2015 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 13:47:05 -0700 Subject: Copy and Paste from LiveCode text fld in Mobile In-Reply-To: <55D3966B.10303@hindu.org> References: <55D3966B.10303@hindu.org> Message-ID: Are you using a native mobile input control (text field)? A LiveCode field by itself won't offer this. Note that there are two input controls: a single line and multi-line. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design On 8/18/15, 1:32 PM, "Brahmanathaswami" wrote: > >USE CASE: I need to offer the user the ability to copy out text on >mobile (not cut) for passing to twitter or email or facebook on both iOS >and Android > >I am using a plain text field, "textContent" on a single card "textReader" > >unlocked, traversal on... for importing text files to the stack for >users to read... and results from searches etc. > >When I open in Mobile...I don't get the option, on mouse down.,where the >small copy, cut widget opens in iOS... where you can drag to make a >selection... this would also be done on a scrollable region (since there >is more text in the field than the the field can show...) > >Swasti Astu, Be Well! >Brahmanathaswami > >Kauai's Hindu Monastery >www.HimalayanAcademy.com > > >_______________________________________________ >use-livecode mailing list >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From brahma at hindu.org Tue Aug 18 16:50:28 2015 From: brahma at hindu.org (Brahmanathaswami) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 10:50:28 -1000 Subject: Importing UTF-8 files In-Reply-To: <55D38A7F.1050909@hyperactivesw.com> References: <55D38A7F.1050909@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <55D39A94.7070801@hindu.org> i would highly recommend a "deep read" of the read me docs for 7.05 where there is super detail info on all the unicode changes so much changed, mission critical stuff, a lot easier, but you need to do it right. OH! the release notes for 7.1 don't have any of the unicode business... I don't know where LC is documenting that now.. So I extracted this for my own ref http://dev.himalayanacademy.com/stacks/705-Release-Unicode-Notes.pdf Swasti Astu, Be Well! Brahmanathaswami Kauai's Hindu Monastery www.HimalayanAcademy.com J. Landman Gay wrote: > Should I be using "file" or "binfile" to retrieve unicode text from a > UTF-8 text file? I thought I should be using binfile, but after > textDecoding the data, text chunking and delimiters break when I do that. From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Tue Aug 18 17:32:02 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 16:32:02 -0500 Subject: Importing UTF-8 files In-Reply-To: <55D39A94.7070801@hindu.org> References: <55D38A7F.1050909@hyperactivesw.com> <55D39A94.7070801@hindu.org> Message-ID: <55D3A452.5040301@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/18/2015 3:50 PM, Brahmanathaswami wrote: > > So I extracted this for my own ref > > http://dev.himalayanacademy.com/stacks/705-Release-Unicode-Notes.pdf Thanks for that. As Monte said, it turns out "file" works, but I didn't expect it because the entry for textDecode talks about binary files. If the dictionary user notes still worked I'd add a comment about that. It seems the LC team is ahead of me and has made "open file" and url ("file:") compatible with unicode text. I should have known. I read the change notes when they first came out but obviously I forgot a bunch of it. I'll read your link. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From peter.brett at livecode.com Tue Aug 18 17:33:50 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 23:33:50 +0200 Subject: SFTP support [was: Re: Distribute beta versions of iOS app] In-Reply-To: <55D398B5.40308@hindu.org> References: " <4417607974232833140@unknownmsgid>" <55D294C5.6020605@hyperactivesw.com> <55D29FC3.4090704@hindu.org> <55D2BCB8.3070501@hyperactivesw.com> <55D398B5.40308@hindu.org> Message-ID: <32c0141eb08b86f4e0804cc123731539@livecode.com> On 2015-08-18 22:42, Brahmanathaswami wrote: > I have FTP off on the server by default. no one from anywhere for any > reason can log in with clear text, its just not done, period. (why LC > HQ doesn't get this and provide this as part of lib URL is beyond > me... The LiveCode engine can already do secure communication using SSL (Secure Socket Layer). It would *probably* be possible to use "secure socket" to implement FTPS (FTP over SSL) in scripts, without any engine changes (i.e. in libUrl). SFTP is not FTPS or FTP. It's an unrelated file transfer protocol that runs over Secure Shell (SSH). It would be a relatively large project to add it to the engine, because we would be able to use the existing secure network communication support in LiveCode, and we wouldn't be able to use *any* of the existing FTP support in LiveCode. The regular requests for SFTP support are noted and SFTP support is on our internal list of feature requests -- indeed, I was recently discussing it with Mark Waddingham. However, it will be a large project that will involve writing and thoroughly testing a lot of new, security-critical code. When we have the resources available to implement it, it will therefore very likely be introduced an extension available to LiveCode Business customers. In the meantime, you could work around the absence of SFTP support (while maintaining server security) by creating an HTTPS web service that allows uploads only by authenticated clients which provide a valid API token. One thing I don't understand - please can you explain why you can't just do your uploads by shelling out to the "scp" or "rsync" commands? Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Engine Development Team From jhj at jhj.com Tue Aug 18 17:37:29 2015 From: jhj at jhj.com (Jerry Jensen) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 14:37:29 -0700 Subject: Importing UTF-8 files In-Reply-To: <55D39A94.7070801@hindu.org> References: <55D38A7F.1050909@hyperactivesw.com> <55D39A94.7070801@hindu.org> Message-ID: Thanks for the link. I need to ?grow up? and move some stacks to 7. I will need to re-re-learn about unicode before it bites me. .Jerry Jensen > On Aug 18, 2015, at 1:50 PM, Brahmanathaswami wrote: > > i would highly recommend a "deep read" of the read me docs for 7.05 where there is super detail info on all the unicode changes > > so much changed, mission critical stuff, a lot easier, but you need to do it right. > > OH! the release notes for 7.1 don't have any of the unicode business... I don't know where LC is documenting that now.. > > So I extracted this for my own ref > > http://dev.himalayanacademy.com/stacks/705-Release-Unicode-Notes.pdf > > Swasti Astu, Be Well! > Brahmanathaswami > > Kauai's Hindu Monastery > www.HimalayanAcademy.com > > > > J. Landman Gay wrote: >> Should I be using "file" or "binfile" to retrieve unicode text from a UTF-8 text file? I thought I should be using binfile, but after textDecoding the data, text chunking and delimiters break when I do that. > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From feed at smpcsupport.com Tue Aug 18 17:57:55 2015 From: feed at smpcsupport.com (RunRevPlanet) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 07:57:55 +1000 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card Message-ID: <1439935075.55d3aa63da208@www.server101.com> Richmond said: > I'd be interested to know where one can > find these "usability standards", and by > whom they are authorised to be 'standards' I know of no single website to visit that lists usability standards. When I think of such a concept, it is more about tools working in a way that I do not have to switch my way of thinking too much when I go from one to another. As a concrete example, in the Windows world Ctrl+H is most commonly used as the keyboard shortcut for Find and Replace. No one is bullying tool vendors into using this shortcut, but muscle memory is a wonderful time saver and stops me from having to think so hard when coding when a tool vendor does follows the convention. A different type of example of what I see as a usability standard, is that all the other IDE's I use do not put the Variables and Breakpoints list on different panes of the same window. Forcing me, not only to use he mouse to switch between them, but also preventing me from viewing them both at the same time. Such an arrangement that currently exists in LiveCode does not break any rules, but is hardly what I would call as good an arrangement used by other IDEs where I can see them both *and* the entire call stack list simultaneously. There is no good reason for LiveCode to be different when the current arrangement is less convenient and forces me to work harder. These are just two examples, but the are other issues listed in my previous post. As far as I am concerned, the Next Generation IDE is not about making something new and shiny just because it looks cool and copies what every other tool vendor is doing. It is instead about making LiveCode a tool that doesn't make me have to remember a different set of rules and conventions while working in it and doing common basic actions, as compared to other popular editors and IDEs. Following expected conventions also reduces the chance of new users dismissing LiveCode immediately they try do some simple actions that all of the other programming tools do, but LiveCode cannot. To me usability standards are all about increasing the user base, and reducing the effort of my hands and brain when in LiveCode. -- Scott McDonald "Components, Controls, Tools and Resources for LiveCode" www.runrevplanet.com From monte at sweattechnologies.com Tue Aug 18 17:59:14 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 07:59:14 +1000 Subject: Importing UTF-8 files In-Reply-To: <55D3A452.5040301@hyperactivesw.com> References: <55D38A7F.1050909@hyperactivesw.com> <55D39A94.7070801@hindu.org> <55D3A452.5040301@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: The thing is importing using file mode changes the line endings which is perfectly fine in UTF8. It's still UTF8 afterwards which is why textDecode still works. You could just textDecode then script the replacement of the line endings but it's probably easier for the engine to do it. Sent from my iPhone > On 19 Aug 2015, at 7:32 am, J. Landman Gay wrote: > > Thanks for that. As Monte said, it turns out "file" works, but I didn't expect it because the entry for textDecode talks about binary files. From sundown at pacifier.com Tue Aug 18 18:39:23 2015 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 15:39:23 -0700 Subject: BAF and other things - I am confused... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: That looks really nice! They have put a lot of work into it. It sounds like you cannot use any pointers yet or access everything in Foundation. John Balgenorth On Aug 18, 2015, at 5:43 AM, John Dixon wrote: > > >> From: rolf.kocherhans at id.uzh.ch > >> Second question: >> >> The new Widgets and the new LiveCode Builder language, when and how do we get more >> information about how to use the Language ? >> >> I had a look at all the movies and blog posts, but to be honest, for me the present info is not >> at all enough to feel confident that I can create widgets on my own ! >> >> >> Can the mothership please chime in ? >> > > The spec is here: > > https://github.com/runrev/livecode-ide/blob/develop/Documentation/guides/Extending%20LiveCode.md#documentation-markup > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Tue Aug 18 23:59:47 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 06:59:47 +0300 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: <1439935075.55d3aa63da208@www.server101.com> References: <1439935075.55d3aa63da208@www.server101.com> Message-ID: I'm messing around, as one does, in a scaffy carpark attached to the Conservatoire in Sofia, Bulgaria, having thrown one son on a plane to the States and waiting for the other from Germany. But I digress . . Reading a book from 1999 about Visual Basic 6 . . . AND what do I see? The "Visual Basic Integrated Development Environment", to which my immediate reaction is 'fioch'! Although I can see why it might appeal to some people, and it is rather suggestive of "that picture". I suppose this really comes down to whether you like the Photoshop IDE or the GIMP one: I prefer the latter; although I have to admit it was a shock after moving to it after Photoshop about 12 years ago. My main 'beef' with an IDE of the VB6 type is that it blocks the desktop from view and doesn't seem good if one wants to rearrange where one's palettes sit on the screen. Things might prove a bit awkward if one wants to make a stack as big as one's desktop if one cannot shunt palettes around and about. Of course this is all about taste (meaning it's all in the mouth) so it would seem best, if an all-in-one IDE like the VB6 one is to be introduced to have it as one of 2 options. Richmond. from my jail-broken, recycled iPad 1 On 19 Aug 2015, at 00:57, RunRevPlanet wrote: > Richmond said: > >> I'd be interested to know where one can >> find these "usability standards", and by >> whom they are authorised to be 'standards' > > I know of no single website to visit that lists usability standards. > > When I think of such a concept, it is more about tools working in a way that I > do not have to switch my way of thinking too much when I go from one to another. > > As a concrete example, in the Windows world Ctrl+H is most commonly used as the > keyboard shortcut for Find and Replace. No one is bullying tool vendors into > using this shortcut, but muscle memory is a wonderful time saver and stops me > from having to think so hard when coding when a tool vendor does follows the > convention. > > A different type of example of what I see as a usability standard, is that all > the other IDE's I use do not put the Variables and Breakpoints list on different > panes of the same window. Forcing me, not only to use he mouse to switch between > them, but also preventing me from viewing them both at the same time. > > Such an arrangement that currently exists in LiveCode does not break any rules, > but is hardly what I would call as good an arrangement used by other IDEs where > I can see them both *and* the entire call stack list simultaneously. There is no > good reason for LiveCode to be different when the current arrangement is less > convenient and forces me to work harder. > > These are just two examples, but the are other issues listed in my previous > post. > > As far as I am concerned, the Next Generation IDE is not about making something > new and shiny just because it looks cool and copies what every other tool vendor > is doing. > > It is instead about making LiveCode a tool that doesn't make me have to remember > a different set of rules and conventions while working in it and doing common > basic actions, as compared to other popular editors and IDEs. > > Following expected conventions also reduces the chance of new users dismissing > LiveCode immediately they try do some simple actions that all of the other > programming tools do, but LiveCode cannot. > > To me usability standards are all about increasing the user base, and reducing > the effort of my hands and brain when in LiveCode. > -- > Scott McDonald > "Components, Controls, Tools and Resources for LiveCode" > www.runrevplanet.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at livecode.org Wed Aug 19 01:15:24 2015 From: paul at livecode.org (Paul Hibbert) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 22:15:24 -0700 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: References: <1439935075.55d3aa63da208@www.server101.com> Message-ID: I totally agree, I use Photoshop dialy and while I?m quite happy with a one window type of environment for image editing I really don?t feel it would be appropriate for app development. However, there are some areas that I feel could be improved in the LC IDE, so I wrote my own plugin to help organise LC just how I like it, and then made another plugin to add some shortcuts that I prefer, so for me a better designed IDE doesn?t mean one pane for everything, but more options for custom shortcuts, tabbed panels that can be docked together etc. and options for arranging the IDE just how you like it and then being able to save those settings. Photoshop is actually a very good model for a flexible working environment, especially for people that work on multiple monitors, it can be set up like you use GIMP with separate floating panels, or with docked panels or with a backdrop to obscure the finder and other distracting apps with shortcuts to make all open panels disappear (and reappear!). All of these settings can be saved as different workspaces, if LC could do that I would be really impressed and I?m sure many others would too. Paul > On Aug 18, 2015, at 20:59, Richmond wrote: > > I'm messing around, as one does, in a scaffy carpark attached to the Conservatoire in Sofia, Bulgaria, having thrown one son on a plane to the States and waiting for the other from Germany. > > But I digress . . > > Reading a book from 1999 about Visual Basic 6 . . . > > AND what do I see? The "Visual Basic Integrated Development Environment", > to which my immediate reaction is 'fioch'! > > Although I can see why it might appeal to some people, and it is rather suggestive > of "that picture". > > I suppose this really comes down to whether you like the Photoshop IDE or the GIMP one: > I prefer the latter; although I have to admit it was a shock after moving to it after Photoshop > about 12 years ago. > > My main 'beef' with an IDE of the VB6 type is that it blocks the desktop from view and doesn't > seem good if one wants to rearrange where one's palettes sit on the screen. > > Things might prove a bit awkward if one wants to make a stack as big as one's desktop if one > cannot shunt palettes around and about. > > Of course this is all about taste (meaning it's all in the mouth) so it would seem best, if an > all-in-one IDE like the VB6 one is to be introduced to have it as one of 2 options. > > Richmond. > > from my jail-broken, recycled iPad 1 > > > On 19 Aug 2015, at 00:57, RunRevPlanet wrote: > >> Richmond said: >> >>> I'd be interested to know where one can >>> find these "usability standards", and by >>> whom they are authorised to be 'standards' >> >> I know of no single website to visit that lists usability standards. >> >> When I think of such a concept, it is more about tools working in a way that I >> do not have to switch my way of thinking too much when I go from one to another. >> >> As a concrete example, in the Windows world Ctrl+H is most commonly used as the >> keyboard shortcut for Find and Replace. No one is bullying tool vendors into >> using this shortcut, but muscle memory is a wonderful time saver and stops me >> from having to think so hard when coding when a tool vendor does follows the >> convention. >> >> A different type of example of what I see as a usability standard, is that all >> the other IDE's I use do not put the Variables and Breakpoints list on different >> panes of the same window. Forcing me, not only to use he mouse to switch between >> them, but also preventing me from viewing them both at the same time. >> >> Such an arrangement that currently exists in LiveCode does not break any rules, >> but is hardly what I would call as good an arrangement used by other IDEs where >> I can see them both *and* the entire call stack list simultaneously. There is no >> good reason for LiveCode to be different when the current arrangement is less >> convenient and forces me to work harder. >> >> These are just two examples, but the are other issues listed in my previous >> post. >> >> As far as I am concerned, the Next Generation IDE is not about making something >> new and shiny just because it looks cool and copies what every other tool vendor >> is doing. >> >> It is instead about making LiveCode a tool that doesn't make me have to remember >> a different set of rules and conventions while working in it and doing common >> basic actions, as compared to other popular editors and IDEs. >> >> Following expected conventions also reduces the chance of new users dismissing >> LiveCode immediately they try do some simple actions that all of the other >> programming tools do, but LiveCode cannot. >> >> To me usability standards are all about increasing the user base, and reducing >> the effort of my hands and brain when in LiveCode. >> -- >> Scott McDonald >> "Components, Controls, Tools and Resources for LiveCode" >> www.runrevplanet.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Aug 19 01:22:09 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 22:22:09 -0700 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55D41281.6090501@fourthworld.com> Richmond wrote: > My main 'beef' with an IDE of the VB6 type is that it blocks the > desktop from view and doesn't seem good if one wants to rearrange > where one's palettes sit on the screen. > > Things might prove a bit awkward if one wants to make a stack as > big as one's desktop if one cannot shunt palettes around and about. > > Of course this is all about taste (meaning it's all in the mouth) > so it would seem best, if an all-in-one IDE like the VB6 one is > to be introduced to have it as one of 2 options. I believe it's more than about taste with LiveCode, it's about workflow. LiveCode isn't like other languages, where working with controls is little more than a drawing program because nothing there is LIVE CODE. For us, it's less like building an app inside of an IDE as it is running an IDE along side our apps. Our windows are separate because they're real windows, not just inert proxies. I went into this in greater detail a couple months back: The Viewer widget needed for that UI will be very nice for us, but I fear making an IDE based around it, as it would no longer be truly LIVE CODE. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From monte at sweattechnologies.com Wed Aug 19 01:36:43 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 15:36:43 +1000 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: <55D41281.6090501@fourthworld.com> References: <55D41281.6090501@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <6AD24E22-18F9-47CB-BC9F-A5B4D510A59F@sweattechnologies.com> > On 19 Aug 2015, at 3:22 pm, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > The Viewer widget needed for that UI will be very nice for us, but I fear making an IDE based around it, as it would no longer be truly LIVE CODE. I agree, personally I?d like a full screen script editor with an object tree on the side and possibly a properties pane on the other side but for the actual stacks I think a toolbar and floating palettes and our stacks as real windows is more logical. From smudge.andy at googlemail.com Wed Aug 19 01:54:09 2015 From: smudge.andy at googlemail.com (AndyP) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 22:54:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: <6AD24E22-18F9-47CB-BC9F-A5B4D510A59F@sweattechnologies.com> References: <43CD8158-FDFC-4DB0-A695-D8E8832C2E92@gmail.com> <1439935075.55d3aa63da208@www.server101.com> <55D41281.6090501@fourthworld.com> <6AD24E22-18F9-47CB-BC9F-A5B4D510A59F@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <1439963649531-4695331.post@n4.nabble.com> I like the IDE set-up arrangement as it is with the floating panes. It is an especially workable when using a two monitor set-up. If the single view arrangement were to be implemented in a new IDE then the option to un-dock the script editor at the bare minimum should be an option. I agree that the current IDE look and feel looks tired and may put new potential users of LiveCode off..so.. how about a middle step of revamping the look of the existing pallets and allowing the user to theme the current IDE arrangement? ----- Andy Piddock My software never has bugs. It just develops random features. Copy the new cloud space, get your free 15GB space now: Get Copy Script editor Themer for LC http://2108.co.uk PointandSee is a FREE simple but full featured under cursor colour picker / finder. http://www.pointandsee.co.uk - made with LiveCode -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Open-Source-Kickstarter-Report-Card-tp4695018p4695331.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From peter.brett at livecode.com Wed Aug 19 02:08:55 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 07:08:55 +0100 Subject: BAF and other things - I am confused... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7ac4548ec877f315fc6ca040487f6d30@livecode.com> On 2015-08-18 23:39, JB wrote: > That looks really nice! > > They have put a lot of work into it. > It sounds like you cannot use any > pointers yet or access everything in > Foundation. You can use pointers -- but you can't dereference them. You can use pretty much everything in libfoundation, but not everything has syntax bindings yet. Did you have something particular in mind? Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Engine Development Team From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Wed Aug 19 08:20:41 2015 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 08:20:41 -0400 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: <55D41281.6090501@fourthworld.com> References: <55D41281.6090501@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Speaking of workflows, we use a product called Automation Engine in our prepress shop. You may not think "programming" when you hear the word "prepress", but with AE, that is exactly what it is. We take business logic, and map it to tasks, loops, forks, file io, error handlers, etc. with a graphical workflow editor. Tasks are listed on the right, which you drag onto the workspace and arrange and connect them. Each task has properties you set by double-clicking to open a panel. This would be a slick way to build, or at least connect LC objects to their inputs/outputs/errors. Have a look at this short video. Ignore the stuff about artwork QC. I think a "modern" editor should be something like this... not VB6. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbnaqbH5QK8 ~Roger On Aug 19, 2015 1:31 AM, "Richard Gaskin" wrote: > Richmond wrote: > > > My main 'beef' with an IDE of the VB6 type is that it blocks the > > desktop from view and doesn't seem good if one wants to rearrange > > where one's palettes sit on the screen. > > > > Things might prove a bit awkward if one wants to make a stack as > > big as one's desktop if one cannot shunt palettes around and about. > > > > Of course this is all about taste (meaning it's all in the mouth) > > so it would seem best, if an all-in-one IDE like the VB6 one is > > to be introduced to have it as one of 2 options. > > I believe it's more than about taste with LiveCode, it's about workflow. > > LiveCode isn't like other languages, where working with controls is little > more than a drawing program because nothing there is LIVE CODE. > > For us, it's less like building an app inside of an IDE as it is running > an IDE along side our apps. Our windows are separate because they're real > windows, not just inert proxies. > > I went into this in greater detail a couple months back: > > > The Viewer widget needed for that UI will be very nice for us, but I fear > making an IDE based around it, as it would no longer be truly LIVE CODE. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From sundown at pacifier.com Wed Aug 19 11:37:51 2015 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 08:37:51 -0700 Subject: BAF and other things - I am confused... In-Reply-To: <7ac4548ec877f315fc6ca040487f6d30@livecode.com> References: <7ac4548ec877f315fc6ca040487f6d30@livecode.com> Message-ID: <55109897-527A-46EF-AA2C-0BCF42D370C2@pacifier.com> Thank you! Yes I do have some things in mind. As I have said in other post I know a little bit about c++ and objective-c so I am not completely up to par on using pointers and c etc. I will need to go review lessons and code to even correctly write the pointer but I have used them in learning and it should not take me too much to get a handle on it. My main interest for now is GCD and the NFS file manager. But I also want to use it to help improve things in general for the open source community. Not that i feel I can do better than others but i wanted to learn it and help. As for GCD I wanted to do that for my own project. I am currently writing it in Revolu- tion because it uses code that needs the commercial license and I am using funds the best I can to accomplish the job. But eventually I will buy the business license because I also want to build it for mobile. With the GCD I am interested in threads for faster file processing and I want it for reading and writing binary and hex etc. With the NFS file manager I wanted to use it to improve finder access like BR wants. John Balgenorth On Aug 18, 2015, at 11:08 PM, Peter TB Brett wrote: > On 2015-08-18 23:39, JB wrote: >> That looks really nice! >> They have put a lot of work into it. >> It sounds like you cannot use any >> pointers yet or access everything in >> Foundation. > > You can use pointers -- but you can't dereference them. > > You can use pretty much everything in libfoundation, but not everything has syntax bindings yet. Did you have something particular in mind? > > Peter > > -- > Dr Peter Brett > LiveCode Engine Development Team > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From scott at tactilemedia.com Wed Aug 19 11:35:52 2015 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 08:35:52 -0700 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: References: <55D41281.6090501@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: This kind of visual drag-and-drop programming UI has been done (and will continue to be done) for decades, and works pretty well for simple logic. The whole "build without writing code" concept is pretty big right now. But visual programming becomes unwieldy and difficult to follow when logic gets complex. And it's unlikely that a visual interface could handle all the options provided by the LiveCode language. But for simple projects, this could be useful for beginners, or when quickly building a stack. Apple's Automator has worked this way for years now, and Audio Hijack on OS X is another app that recently employed a visual UI: https://www.rogueamoeba.com/audiohijack/ Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design On 8/19/15, 5:20 AM, "Roger Eller" wrote: >Speaking of workflows, we use a product called Automation Engine in our >prepress shop. You may not think "programming" when you hear the word >"prepress", but with AE, that is exactly what it is. We take business >logic, and map it to tasks, loops, forks, file io, error handlers, etc. >with a graphical workflow editor. Tasks are listed on the right, which >you >drag onto the workspace and arrange and connect them. Each task has >properties you set by double-clicking to open a panel. This would be a >slick way to build, or at least connect LC objects to their >inputs/outputs/errors. Have a look at this short video. Ignore the stuff >about artwork QC. > >I think a "modern" editor should be something like this... not VB6. > >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbnaqbH5QK8 > >~Roger >On Aug 19, 2015 1:31 AM, "Richard Gaskin" >wrote: > >> Richmond wrote: >> >> > My main 'beef' with an IDE of the VB6 type is that it blocks the >> > desktop from view and doesn't seem good if one wants to rearrange >> > where one's palettes sit on the screen. >> > >> > Things might prove a bit awkward if one wants to make a stack as >> > big as one's desktop if one cannot shunt palettes around and about. >> > >> > Of course this is all about taste (meaning it's all in the mouth) >> > so it would seem best, if an all-in-one IDE like the VB6 one is >> > to be introduced to have it as one of 2 options. >> >> I believe it's more than about taste with LiveCode, it's about workflow. >> >> LiveCode isn't like other languages, where working with controls is >>little >> more than a drawing program because nothing there is LIVE CODE. >> >> For us, it's less like building an app inside of an IDE as it is running >> an IDE along side our apps. Our windows are separate because they're >>real >> windows, not just inert proxies. >> >> I went into this in greater detail a couple months back: >> >> >> The Viewer widget needed for that UI will be very nice for us, but I >>fear >> making an IDE based around it, as it would no longer be truly LIVE CODE. >> >> -- >> Richard Gaskin >> Fourth World Systems >> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web >> ____________________________________________________________________ >> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >_______________________________________________ >use-livecode mailing list >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dochawk at gmail.com Wed Aug 19 11:37:49 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 08:37:49 -0700 Subject: mouse pointer hot spot is way off In-Reply-To: References: <93B3AE25-AC20-4998-A7BF-A935E6B636BD@swcp.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 2:53 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: > There's pretty persuasive evidence now that the shadowed variable bug is > caused by stopping a debug run early. > I'll watch for that, then. But it absolutely has to go; it costs me at least several minutes, and sometimes a full hour, out of coding days. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From scott at tactilemedia.com Wed Aug 19 11:41:48 2015 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 08:41:48 -0700 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: References: <55D41281.6090501@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Here we go: Just 3 minutes ago, I received a announcement from Webflow for their new visual CMS: https://webflow.com/cms Building without programming is a popular trend :-) Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design On 8/19/15, 8:35 AM, "Scott Rossi" wrote: >This kind of visual drag-and-drop programming UI has been done (and will >continue to be done) for decades, and works pretty well for simple logic. >The whole "build without writing code" concept is pretty big right now. >But visual programming becomes unwieldy and difficult to follow when logic >gets complex. And it's unlikely that a visual interface could handle all >the options provided by the LiveCode language. But for simple projects, >this could be useful for beginners, or when quickly building a stack. > >Apple's Automator has worked this way for years now, and Audio Hijack on >OS X is another app that recently employed a visual UI: >https://www.rogueamoeba.com/audiohijack/ > > >Regards, > >Scott Rossi >Creative Director >Tactile Media, UX/UI Design > > > > >On 8/19/15, 5:20 AM, "Roger Eller" wrote: > >>Speaking of workflows, we use a product called Automation Engine in our >>prepress shop. You may not think "programming" when you hear the word >>"prepress", but with AE, that is exactly what it is. We take business >>logic, and map it to tasks, loops, forks, file io, error handlers, etc. >>with a graphical workflow editor. Tasks are listed on the right, which >>you >>drag onto the workspace and arrange and connect them. Each task has >>properties you set by double-clicking to open a panel. This would be a >>slick way to build, or at least connect LC objects to their >>inputs/outputs/errors. Have a look at this short video. Ignore the >>stuff >>about artwork QC. >> >>I think a "modern" editor should be something like this... not VB6. >> >>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbnaqbH5QK8 >> >>~Roger >>On Aug 19, 2015 1:31 AM, "Richard Gaskin" >>wrote: >> >>> Richmond wrote: >>> >>> > My main 'beef' with an IDE of the VB6 type is that it blocks the >>> > desktop from view and doesn't seem good if one wants to rearrange >>> > where one's palettes sit on the screen. >>> > >>> > Things might prove a bit awkward if one wants to make a stack as >>> > big as one's desktop if one cannot shunt palettes around and about. >>> > >>> > Of course this is all about taste (meaning it's all in the mouth) >>> > so it would seem best, if an all-in-one IDE like the VB6 one is >>> > to be introduced to have it as one of 2 options. >>> >>> I believe it's more than about taste with LiveCode, it's about >>>workflow. >>> >>> LiveCode isn't like other languages, where working with controls is >>>little >>> more than a drawing program because nothing there is LIVE CODE. >>> >>> For us, it's less like building an app inside of an IDE as it is >>>running >>> an IDE along side our apps. Our windows are separate because they're >>>real >>> windows, not just inert proxies. >>> >>> I went into this in greater detail a couple months back: >>> >>> >>> The Viewer widget needed for that UI will be very nice for us, but I >>>fear >>> making an IDE based around it, as it would no longer be truly LIVE >>>CODE. >>> >>> -- >>> Richard Gaskin >>> Fourth World Systems >>> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web >>> ____________________________________________________________________ >>> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>use-livecode mailing list >>use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>subscription preferences: >>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > >_______________________________________________ >use-livecode mailing list >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Wed Aug 19 12:16:10 2015 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 12:16:10 -0400 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: References: <55D41281.6090501@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Good for beginners, yes. But also for speciaized areas of a workflow, like navigation defaults. I didn't say lets make a UI that doesn't require any code. The Automation Engine I use has tasks that are for specialty purposes, but also within this workflow environment you can add a external task icon, allowing it to run a javascript, vbscript, Adobe ExtendScript, AppleScript, etc., and return values to variables (called SmartNames in AE), and continue doing stuff. So, it depends on the approach I guess. If the UI could be used to link screens (cards or stacks), and house the logic of when to show them and what visual effects, etc. but also allow fully scriptable LiveCode objects, it might allow a novice the ability to "ease into" programming, or the expert the ability to get a UI built more efficiently. ~Roger Roger EllerGraphics Systems Analyst 803 North Maple StreetP: 864.967.1625Simpsonville, SC 29681C: 864.908.0337 SealedAir.com Roger.E.Eller at SealedAir.com On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 11:35 AM, Scott Rossi wrote: > This kind of visual drag-and-drop programming UI has been done (and will > continue to be done) for decades, and works pretty well for simple logic. > The whole "build without writing code" concept is pretty big right now. > But visual programming becomes unwieldy and difficult to follow when logic > gets complex. And it's unlikely that a visual interface could handle all > the options provided by the LiveCode language. But for simple projects, > this could be useful for beginners, or when quickly building a stack. > > Apple's Automator has worked this way for years now, and Audio Hijack on > OS X is another app that recently employed a visual UI: > https://www.rogueamoeba.com/audiohijack/ > > > Regards, > > Scott Rossi > Creative Director > Tactile Media, UX/UI Design > > > > > On 8/19/15, 5:20 AM, "Roger Eller" wrote: > > >Speaking of workflows, we use a product called Automation Engine in our > >prepress shop. You may not think "programming" when you hear the word > >"prepress", but with AE, that is exactly what it is. We take business > >logic, and map it to tasks, loops, forks, file io, error handlers, etc. > >with a graphical workflow editor. Tasks are listed on the right, which > >you > >drag onto the workspace and arrange and connect them. Each task has > >properties you set by double-clicking to open a panel. This would be a > >slick way to build, or at least connect LC objects to their > >inputs/outputs/errors. Have a look at this short video. Ignore the stuff > >about artwork QC. > > > >I think a "modern" editor should be something like this... not VB6. > > > >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbnaqbH5QK8 > > > >~Roger > >On Aug 19, 2015 1:31 AM, "Richard Gaskin" > >wrote: > > > >> Richmond wrote: > >> > >> > My main 'beef' with an IDE of the VB6 type is that it blocks the > >> > desktop from view and doesn't seem good if one wants to rearrange > >> > where one's palettes sit on the screen. > >> > > >> > Things might prove a bit awkward if one wants to make a stack as > >> > big as one's desktop if one cannot shunt palettes around and about. > >> > > >> > Of course this is all about taste (meaning it's all in the mouth) > >> > so it would seem best, if an all-in-one IDE like the VB6 one is > >> > to be introduced to have it as one of 2 options. > >> > >> I believe it's more than about taste with LiveCode, it's about workflow. > >> > >> LiveCode isn't like other languages, where working with controls is > >>little > >> more than a drawing program because nothing there is LIVE CODE. > >> > >> For us, it's less like building an app inside of an IDE as it is running > >> an IDE along side our apps. Our windows are separate because they're > >>real > >> windows, not just inert proxies. > >> > >> I went into this in greater detail a couple months back: > >> > >> > >> The Viewer widget needed for that UI will be very nice for us, but I > >>fear > >> making an IDE based around it, as it would no longer be truly LIVE CODE. > >> > >> -- > >> Richard Gaskin > >> Fourth World Systems > >> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > >> ____________________________________________________________________ > >> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > >_______________________________________________ > >use-livecode mailing list > >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >subscription preferences: > >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Aug 19 12:25:50 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 19:25:50 +0300 Subject: [OT] Copyrighting games? Message-ID: <55D4AE0E.30401@gmail.com> I have recently invented a tiling game that can be produced as a physical game and as a computer game. This involved a lot of thought and a lot of work, and as a result I would like to try and make some money out of it rather than just "give it to the world". However, never having copyrighted anything except a book in 1985, I don't know how to go about this. My main concern would be, initially at least, within the European Community. I would be grateful for any advice anyone can give me. Richmond. From peter.brett at livecode.com Wed Aug 19 12:39:21 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 18:39:21 +0200 Subject: [OT] Copyrighting =?UTF-8?Q?games=3F?= In-Reply-To: <55D4AE0E.30401@gmail.com> References: <55D4AE0E.30401@gmail.com> Message-ID: <617fd5e48dcf3f46592c7936a64999a0@livecode.com> On 2015-08-19 18:25, Richmond wrote: > I have recently invented a tiling game that can be produced as a > physical game and as a computer game. > This involved a lot of thought and a lot of work, and as a result I > would like to try and make some money > out of it rather than just "give it to the world". > > However, never having copyrighted anything except a book in 1985, I > don't know how to go about this. > > My main concern would be, initially at least, within the European > Community. > > I would be grateful for any advice anyone can give me. Since quite a long time ago now, every creative work automatically has copyright protection from the moment of creation -- and, by treaty, this protection extends worldwide. There is no need to register your copyright any more in order to receive protection (although it may assist in enforcement). On the other hand, whether you have copyright on something and whether you can make money out of it are usually uncorrelated. Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Engine Development Team From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Aug 19 12:49:40 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 19:49:40 +0300 Subject: [OT] Copyrighting games? In-Reply-To: <617fd5e48dcf3f46592c7936a64999a0@livecode.com> References: <55D4AE0E.30401@gmail.com> <617fd5e48dcf3f46592c7936a64999a0@livecode.com> Message-ID: <55D4B3A4.4000700@gmail.com> On 19/08/15 19:39, Peter TB Brett wrote: > On 2015-08-19 18:25, Richmond wrote: >> I have recently invented a tiling game that can be produced as a >> physical game and as a computer game. >> This involved a lot of thought and a lot of work, and as a result I >> would like to try and make some money >> out of it rather than just "give it to the world". >> >> However, never having copyrighted anything except a book in 1985, I >> don't know how to go about this. >> >> My main concern would be, initially at least, within the European >> Community. >> >> I would be grateful for any advice anyone can give me. > > Since quite a long time ago now, every creative work automatically has > copyright protection from the moment of creation -- and, by treaty, > this protection extends worldwide. > > There is no need to register your copyright any more in order to > receive protection (although it may assist in enforcement). > > On the other hand, whether you have copyright on something and whether > you can make money out of it are usually uncorrelated. Ha, Ha, Ha . . . of course. However, before I roll along to the local plastic moulding factory I want to try to ensure that the owner of the factory doesn't merrily steal my product or start selling copies out the back door. I am tempted to register here: https://www.workscopyright.com/ as it is quick and inexpensive. Money is as money does, and I am notoriously bad with money. But I am aware that if I want to *try* and sell my product rather than just give it away (at which point somebody else can make money from my bright idea) I need a bit of what Gene Wilder was talking about in the first version of /Charlie and the Chocolate Factory/. Richmond. > > Peter > From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Wed Aug 19 12:56:13 2015 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 12:56:13 -0400 Subject: [OT] Copyrighting games? In-Reply-To: <55D4B3A4.4000700@gmail.com> References: <55D4AE0E.30401@gmail.com> <617fd5e48dcf3f46592c7936a64999a0@livecode.com> <55D4B3A4.4000700@gmail.com> Message-ID: You could have your software log first-time app launches to a LC server database just to inform you that it has been installed somewhere, and include some kind of trace code to the purchaser. When you see 1000+ launches from different IP Addresses, you'll know it has gotten out into the wilderness (the interwebs). On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 12:49 PM, Richmond wrote: > On 19/08/15 19:39, Peter TB Brett wrote: > >> On 2015-08-19 18:25, Richmond wrote: >> >>> I have recently invented a tiling game that can be produced as a >>> physical game and as a computer game. >>> This involved a lot of thought and a lot of work, and as a result I >>> would like to try and make some money >>> out of it rather than just "give it to the world". >>> >>> However, never having copyrighted anything except a book in 1985, I >>> don't know how to go about this. >>> >>> My main concern would be, initially at least, within the European >>> Community. >>> >>> I would be grateful for any advice anyone can give me. >>> >> >> Since quite a long time ago now, every creative work automatically has >> copyright protection from the moment of creation -- and, by treaty, this >> protection extends worldwide. >> >> There is no need to register your copyright any more in order to receive >> protection (although it may assist in enforcement). >> >> On the other hand, whether you have copyright on something and whether >> you can make money out of it are usually uncorrelated. >> > > Ha, Ha, Ha . . . of course. > > However, before I roll along to the local plastic moulding factory I want > to try to ensure that the owner of the factory doesn't > merrily steal my product or start selling copies out the back door. > > I am tempted to register here: https://www.workscopyright.com/ as it is > quick and inexpensive. > > Money is as money does, and I am notoriously bad with money. But I am > aware that if I want to *try* and sell my product rather > than just give it away (at which point somebody else can make money from > my bright idea) I need a bit of what Gene Wilder was talking about > in the first version of /Charlie and the Chocolate Factory/. > > Richmond. > > >> Peter >> >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From peter.brett at livecode.com Wed Aug 19 13:07:25 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 19:07:25 +0200 Subject: [OT] Copyrighting =?UTF-8?Q?games=3F?= In-Reply-To: <55D4B3A4.4000700@gmail.com> References: <55D4AE0E.30401@gmail.com> <617fd5e48dcf3f46592c7936a64999a0@livecode.com> <55D4B3A4.4000700@gmail.com> Message-ID: <8811fb5183f7bd4ce76ff3552b289a7a@livecode.com> On 2015-08-19 18:49, Richmond wrote: > However, before I roll along to the local plastic moulding factory I > want to try to ensure that the owner of the factory doesn't > merrily steal my product or start selling copies out the back door. You may need to investigate design patents as well, if you're intent on "intellectual property" protection. Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Engine Development Team From lfredricks at proactive-intl.com Wed Aug 19 13:31:55 2015 From: lfredricks at proactive-intl.com (Lynn Fredricks) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 10:31:55 -0700 Subject: [OT] Copyrighting games? In-Reply-To: <617fd5e48dcf3f46592c7936a64999a0@livecode.com> References: <55D4AE0E.30401@gmail.com> <617fd5e48dcf3f46592c7936a64999a0@livecode.com> Message-ID: <1FA508EFBE28414EA277ABE150CA1D06@GATEWAY> > There is no need to register your copyright any more in order > to receive protection (although it may assist in enforcement). > > On the other hand, whether you have copyright on something > and whether you can make money out of it are usually uncorrelated. My understanding is that if you do not register then you have no way to collect damages based on it being a copyrighted work - that doesn't mean you couldn't sue for some other reason, but specificially the sort of mega $$$ on violating your IP. Best regards, Lynn Fredricks Paradigma Software http://www.paradigmasoft.com Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server From lfredricks at proactive-intl.com Wed Aug 19 13:40:18 2015 From: lfredricks at proactive-intl.com (Lynn Fredricks) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 10:40:18 -0700 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: References: <55D41281.6090501@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: > This kind of visual drag-and-drop programming UI has been > done (and will continue to be done) for decades, and works > pretty well for simple logic. Flashback: http://www.mactech.com/articles/mactech/Vol.10/10.11/PrographCPXTutorial/ind ex.html Remember this? Very interesting concept at the time - to me it was much harder to swallow than the HC/Card/Stack/Talk model. Best regards, Lynn Fredricks Paradigma Software http://www.paradigmasoft.com Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server From sundown at pacifier.com Wed Aug 19 13:45:39 2015 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 10:45:39 -0700 Subject: [OT] Copyrighting games? In-Reply-To: <8811fb5183f7bd4ce76ff3552b289a7a@livecode.com> References: <55D4AE0E.30401@gmail.com> <617fd5e48dcf3f46592c7936a64999a0@livecode.com> <55D4B3A4.4000700@gmail.com> <8811fb5183f7bd4ce76ff3552b289a7a@livecode.com> Message-ID: <5CC79860-185B-449C-A8FF-F5E7BC1CE9F9@pacifier.com> Pantents are not cheap and have a long waiting period. Another thing to consid- about a patent is lets say you designed a new type of screwdriver. If you have used that somewhere like the workplace you will be denied the patent. So you will need to make your decision about getting a patent in advance of any type of public use. John Balgenorth On Aug 19, 2015, at 10:07 AM, Peter TB Brett wrote: > On 2015-08-19 18:49, Richmond wrote: > >> However, before I roll along to the local plastic moulding factory I >> want to try to ensure that the owner of the factory doesn't >> merrily steal my product or start selling copies out the back door. > > You may need to investigate design patents as well, if you're intent on "intellectual property" protection. > > Peter > > -- > Dr Peter Brett > LiveCode Engine Development Team > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From harrison at all-auctions.com Wed Aug 19 13:47:11 2015 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 13:47:11 -0400 Subject: [OT] Copyrighting games? In-Reply-To: References: <55D4AE0E.30401@gmail.com> <617fd5e48dcf3f46592c7936a64999a0@livecode.com> <55D4B3A4.4000700@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4E48BACF-41F3-4868-974F-E367AFD23EB1@all-auctions.com> Hi Richmond & Roger, You are referring to some kind of DRM (Digital Rights Management). While in theory it sounds great, very often products that do this are boycotted by users who find out about it, and it can ruin one's product sales. Years ago I had a shareware game that I asked people to register for when trying out the game so that when it came time for them to actually purchase the product if they liked it, it would make the process easy and painless. It also provided me with information on how many people downloaded the product and used it. It seemed like a great idea at the time. All I got were complaints about how I was invading their privacy by asking them to register to use my free to try game. Over 600 people downloaded the game and played it. Only 1 of them was honest enough to actually pay me $5.00 for what he described as an absolutely fantastic game which was way ahead of it?s time. You will probably want to produce some prototype physical games on your own if possible. You could consider 3-D printing some of your plastic parts etc. Find a manufacturer who can ramp up your production if you need it. Just get the costs figured out for this first, so you?ll know what you are up against. Patenting is not an inexpensive process. Once you have a successful patent you will have to be prepared to defend it with lots of cash for lawyers fees. This is why many products are released with ?Patent Pending? on them which means a patent application has been filed but not yet granted so the product was able to be rushed to market before any copycats got into the act. Copyright is easiest and you should see how well your electronic software sales go first before attempting to sell a physical board game version as that will be way more expensive to manage and produce. Good luck with your product! Rick > On Aug 19, 2015, at 12:56 PM, Roger Eller wrote: > > You could have your software log first-time app launches to a LC server > database just to inform you that it has been installed somewhere, and > include some kind of trace code to the purchaser. When you see 1000+ > launches from different IP Addresses, you'll know it has gotten out into > the wilderness (the interwebs). > > > On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 12:49 PM, Richmond > wrote: > >> On 19/08/15 19:39, Peter TB Brett wrote: >> >>> On 2015-08-19 18:25, Richmond wrote: >>> >>>> I have recently invented a tiling game that can be produced as a >>>> physical game and as a computer game. >>>> This involved a lot of thought and a lot of work, and as a result I >>>> would like to try and make some money >>>> out of it rather than just "give it to the world". >>>> >>>> However, never having copyrighted anything except a book in 1985, I >>>> don't know how to go about this. >>>> >>>> My main concern would be, initially at least, within the European >>>> Community. >>>> >>>> I would be grateful for any advice anyone can give me. >>>> >>> >>> Since quite a long time ago now, every creative work automatically has >>> copyright protection from the moment of creation -- and, by treaty, this >>> protection extends worldwide. >>> >>> There is no need to register your copyright any more in order to receive >>> protection (although it may assist in enforcement). >>> >>> On the other hand, whether you have copyright on something and whether >>> you can make money out of it are usually uncorrelated. >>> >> >> Ha, Ha, Ha . . . of course. >> >> However, before I roll along to the local plastic moulding factory I want >> to try to ensure that the owner of the factory doesn't >> merrily steal my product or start selling copies out the back door. >> >> I am tempted to register here: https://www.workscopyright.com/ as it is >> quick and inexpensive. >> >> Money is as money does, and I am notoriously bad with money. But I am >> aware that if I want to *try* and sell my product rather >> than just give it away (at which point somebody else can make money from >> my bright idea) I need a bit of what Gene Wilder was talking about >> in the first version of /Charlie and the Chocolate Factory/. >> >> Richmond. >> >> >>> Peter >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Aug 19 13:47:16 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 20:47:16 +0300 Subject: [OT] Copyrighting games? In-Reply-To: <5CC79860-185B-449C-A8FF-F5E7BC1CE9F9@pacifier.com> References: <55D4AE0E.30401@gmail.com> <617fd5e48dcf3f46592c7936a64999a0@livecode.com> <55D4B3A4.4000700@gmail.com> <8811fb5183f7bd4ce76ff3552b289a7a@livecode.com> <5CC79860-185B-449C-A8FF-F5E7BC1CE9F9@pacifier.com> Message-ID: <55D4C124.8080200@gmail.com> Thanks for so much advice of all sorts! My feeling is that a copyright should be sufficient; or, put another way; if I make my "million" then I'm not going to worry unduly if somebody then starts copying the thing. Richmond. From paul at researchware.com Wed Aug 19 13:48:41 2015 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 13:48:41 -0400 Subject: [OT] Copyrighting games? In-Reply-To: <1FA508EFBE28414EA277ABE150CA1D06@GATEWAY> References: <55D4AE0E.30401@gmail.com> <617fd5e48dcf3f46592c7936a64999a0@livecode.com> <1FA508EFBE28414EA277ABE150CA1D06@GATEWAY> Message-ID: <55D4C179.4020409@researchware.com> The general reason for "registering" copyrights if to prove the date of the copyright if there ever is a lawsuit. If I release an App that states copyright @2010 on it and 2 years later in 2012 someone releases an identical app that says copyright @2012 and we get in to a lawsuit, how do I prove that I really authored the work in 2010 vs just back dating it. This is what copyright registration supposedly does for you - it verified the date of your copyright in the event of a lawsuit. Alternatively, there is not need to register from a legal point of view, IF you have sufficent admissible evidence that you truly authored the work when you state you did. That could be via dated financial records of sales to customers for example or by any of a number of other means. It's all about proving your copyright is legit vs the other guy trying to prove it isn't and that theirs is. From smaclean at madmansoft.com Wed Aug 19 14:17:45 2015 From: smaclean at madmansoft.com (Stephen MacLean) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 14:17:45 -0400 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: References: <55D41281.6090501@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <69C2F438-0897-413F-AAE1-6180F5568708@madmansoft.com> > On Aug 19, 2015, at 1:40 PM, Lynn Fredricks wrote: > >> This kind of visual drag-and-drop programming UI has been >> done (and will continue to be done) for decades, and works >> pretty well for simple logic. > > Flashback: > http://www.mactech.com/articles/mactech/Vol.10/10.11/PrographCPXTutorial/ind > ex.html > > Remember this? > > Very interesting concept at the time - to me it was much harder to swallow > than the HC/Card/Stack/Talk model. > > Best regards, > > Lynn Fredricks > Paradigma Software > http://www.paradigmasoft.com > > Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server > > Wow, that is a flash back! It truly was a visual language and once you got adjusted to it, it really was amazing. Debugging was was a walk through of not only the application flow, but the data and results as well. Another nice feature, which we seem to be getting in LCB, was direct access to the entire OS and frameworks. i.e. you had direct access to the Mac Toolbox and could use all those reference manuals that Apple put out to access all those features. Any custom stuff could be built directly in it, instead of externals, etc. I used it extensively to create some bleeding edge (at the time) stuff because of that access. Really did love it and to me was a joy to use. iirc, they got big funding, but flamed out sometime after the switch from 68K cpu?s to PPC and the switch from their own compiler to CodeWarrior. Best, Steve MacLean From lyn.teyla at gmail.com Wed Aug 19 14:27:05 2015 From: lyn.teyla at gmail.com (Lyn Teyla) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 20:27:05 +0200 Subject: libCurl wrapper using LiveCode Builder [was: Re: SFTP support] In-Reply-To: <32c0141eb08b86f4e0804cc123731539@livecode.com> References: <"> <4417607974232833140@unknownmsgid> <"> <55D294C5.6020605@hyperactivesw.com> <55D29FC3.4090704@hindu.org> <55D2BCB8.3070501@hyperactivesw.com> <55D398B5.40308@hindu.org> <32c0141eb08b86f4e0804cc123731539@livecode.com> Message-ID: <5946687A-54B2-4063-906C-5491250DC612@gmail.com> Peter TB Brett wrote: > The LiveCode engine can already do secure communication using SSL (Secure Socket Layer). It would *probably* be possible to use "secure socket" to implement FTPS (FTP over SSL) in scripts, without any engine changes (i.e. in libUrl). -------- Given the following: 1. libCurl already performs many useful protocols (both secure and standard) such as HTTP, HTTPS, FTP, FTPS, SFTP, IMAPS, SMTPS, etc.: http://curl.haxx.se/libcurl/ 2. libCurl appears to already be included by the LiveCode engine: http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=19561 3. LiveCode's roadmap includes a revamp of networking/sockets using the new open language feature: https://livecode.com/resources/roadmap/ -------- Have you guys at LiveCode Ltd thought about implementing this revamp of networking/sockets by simply writing a libCurl wrapper using LiveCode Builder? There are a number of benefits to this: 1. The "hard part" would have been already taken care of by the libCurl people. Let them take care of all the protocol negotiation and keep up with any related security matters (which they do). No point re-inventing the wheel ? just keep libCurl up-to-date with each new build of LiveCode. 2. LiveCode would support SFTP (among many others) right out of the box for all licenses, so Brahmanathaswami and others would be happy. 3. True non-blocking communication would presumably be possible, with it being handled by an LCB external rather than standard scripting. 4. Written in LiveCode Builder means more people from the community would be able to add to it if necessary. 5. We could have a full libUrl replacement (and more) by the time 8.0 is released. -------- If you guys at LiveCode Ltd could whip up a quick working LCB extension for the libCurl wrapper containing a couple of examples showing how it's done, I'm sure some members of the community (myself included) would be more than happy to help do the "mundane" work of fleshing it out per your instructions (so you can focus on other goals). Any thoughts? Lyn :) From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Aug 19 14:29:02 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 21:29:02 +0300 Subject: [OT] Copyrighting games? In-Reply-To: <4E48BACF-41F3-4868-974F-E367AFD23EB1@all-auctions.com> References: <55D4AE0E.30401@gmail.com> <617fd5e48dcf3f46592c7936a64999a0@livecode.com> <55D4B3A4.4000700@gmail.com> <4E48BACF-41F3-4868-974F-E367AFD23EB1@all-auctions.com> Message-ID: <55D4CAEE.5090905@gmail.com> On 19/08/15 20:47, Rick Harrison wrote: > Hi Richmond & Roger, > > You are referring to some kind of DRM (Digital Rights Management). While > in theory it sounds great, very often products that do this are boycotted > by users who find out about it, and it can ruin one's product sales. No, I'm not. I have designed a tiling game something a bit like this: http://picklebums.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/hexi-card-pattern.jpg although, frankly, it is a bit more complex. I would like, initially to market it in the form of either plastic or card tiles in a box. Later on I might make a LiveCode game with it, using a commercial version of LiveCode. In the latter case I would want to make sure that another company would be discouraged from making a clone of the game - i.e. ripping off the idea rather than stealing the code. > > Years ago I had a shareware game that I asked people to register for > when trying out the game so that when it came time for them to actually > purchase the product if they liked it, it would make the process easy and > painless. It also provided me with information on how many people downloaded > the product and used it. It seemed like a great idea at the time. All I got > were complaints about how I was invading their privacy by asking them to > register to use my free to try game. Over 600 people downloaded the game > and played it. Only 1 of them was honest enough to actually pay me $5.00 > for what he described as an absolutely fantastic game which was way ahead > of it?s time. > > You will probably want to produce some prototype physical games on your > own if possible. You could consider 3-D printing some of your plastic parts etc. > Find a manufacturer who can ramp up your production if you need it. Just get > the costs figured out for this first, so you?ll know what you are up against. I have made contact with a plastics factory here in Bulgaria. Their lawyer suggested to me that I should get some sort of legal protection even before I show them my prototype pieces. > > Patenting is not an inexpensive process. Once you have a successful patent > you will have to be prepared to defend it with lots of cash for lawyers fees. > This is why many products are released with ?Patent Pending? on them which > means a patent application has been filed but not yet granted so the product > was able to be rushed to market before any copycats got into the act. > > Copyright is easiest and you should see how well your electronic software > sales go first before attempting to sell a physical board game version as > that will be way more expensive to manage and produce. I am not really interested in patenting, as I am sure that unless the game in a howling success it is unlikely that anybody is going to rip it off - I would like, for the sake of argument, to sell a few hundred copies . . . > > Good luck with your product! Thanks. > > Rick Richmond. > >> On Aug 19, 2015, at 12:56 PM, Roger Eller wrote: >> >> You could have your software log first-time app launches to a LC server >> database just to inform you that it has been installed somewhere, and >> include some kind of trace code to the purchaser. When you see 1000+ >> launches from different IP Addresses, you'll know it has gotten out into >> the wilderness (the interwebs). >> >> >> On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 12:49 PM, Richmond >> wrote: >> >>> On 19/08/15 19:39, Peter TB Brett wrote: >>> >>>> On 2015-08-19 18:25, Richmond wrote: >>>> >>>>> I have recently invented a tiling game that can be produced as a >>>>> physical game and as a computer game. >>>>> This involved a lot of thought and a lot of work, and as a result I >>>>> would like to try and make some money >>>>> out of it rather than just "give it to the world". >>>>> >>>>> However, never having copyrighted anything except a book in 1985, I >>>>> don't know how to go about this. >>>>> >>>>> My main concern would be, initially at least, within the European >>>>> Community. >>>>> >>>>> I would be grateful for any advice anyone can give me. >>>>> >>>> Since quite a long time ago now, every creative work automatically has >>>> copyright protection from the moment of creation -- and, by treaty, this >>>> protection extends worldwide. >>>> >>>> There is no need to register your copyright any more in order to receive >>>> protection (although it may assist in enforcement). >>>> >>>> On the other hand, whether you have copyright on something and whether >>>> you can make money out of it are usually uncorrelated. >>>> >>> Ha, Ha, Ha . . . of course. >>> >>> However, before I roll along to the local plastic moulding factory I want >>> to try to ensure that the owner of the factory doesn't >>> merrily steal my product or start selling copies out the back door. >>> >>> I am tempted to register here: https://www.workscopyright.com/ as it is >>> quick and inexpensive. >>> >>> Money is as money does, and I am notoriously bad with money. But I am >>> aware that if I want to *try* and sell my product rather >>> than just give it away (at which point somebody else can make money from >>> my bright idea) I need a bit of what Gene Wilder was talking about >>> in the first version of /Charlie and the Chocolate Factory/. >>> >>> Richmond. >>> >>> >>>> Peter >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From scott at tactilemedia.com Wed Aug 19 14:31:13 2015 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 11:31:13 -0700 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: References: <55D41281.6090501@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Never used it, but yeah. I was thinking of something like MTropolis which wasn't really free form, but similar. http://www.gamutart.com/motion/interactivity/muntadss_mtropoli_view.gif Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design On 8/19/15, 10:40 AM, "Lynn Fredricks" wrote: >> This kind of visual drag-and-drop programming UI has been >> done (and will continue to be done) for decades, and works >> pretty well for simple logic. > >Flashback: >http://www.mactech.com/articles/mactech/Vol.10/10.11/PrographCPXTutorial/i >nd >ex.html > >Remember this? > >Very interesting concept at the time - to me it was much harder to swallow >than the HC/Card/Stack/Talk model. > >Best regards, > >Lynn Fredricks >Paradigma Software >http://www.paradigmasoft.com > >Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server > > >_______________________________________________ >use-livecode mailing list >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Aug 19 14:39:02 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 21:39:02 +0300 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: References: <1439935075.55d3aa63da208@www.server101.com> Message-ID: <55D4CD46.5030801@gmail.com> Ah . . . at last I found the term I was looking for that describes "that picture": https://ksr-ugc.imgix.net/assets/000/343/164/117dbdeb72106130b0c233e454653d14_original.png?v=1358445536&w=680&fit=max&auto=format&lossless=true&s=b51b389fb4ab85d0e86d29ecafb66656 a Single Document Interface. Richmond. From peter.brett at livecode.com Wed Aug 19 14:39:17 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 20:39:17 +0200 Subject: libCurl wrapper using LiveCode Builder [was: Re: SFTP support] In-Reply-To: <5946687A-54B2-4063-906C-5491250DC612@gmail.com> References: <"> <4417607974232833140@unknownmsgid> <"> <55D294C5.6020605@hyperactivesw.com> <55D29FC3.4090704@hindu.org> <55D2BCB8.3070501@hyperactivesw.com> <55D398B5.40308@hindu.org> <32c0141eb08b86f4e0804cc123731539@livecode.com> <5946687A-54B2-4063-906C-5491250DC612@gmail.com> Message-ID: <722fa674864ddfce0a163ef594402d13@livecode.com> On 2015-08-19 20:27, Lyn Teyla wrote: > Have you guys at LiveCode Ltd thought about implementing this revamp > of networking/sockets by simply writing a libCurl wrapper using > LiveCode Builder? Yes -- one of our very first, high priority ideas for an LCB-based project. I even made a start on it, and I have an internal project [1] that would really benefit from it. However, it's not yet technically possible, I'm afraid. I expect the necessary LCB language features to appear in a LiveCode 8.x release, where x > 0. Some of them are floating around in Mark Waddingham's GitHub repository in various states of completion. Peter [1] Our continuous integration system, vulcanbot. -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Engine Development Team From ali at runrev.com Wed Aug 19 14:48:32 2015 From: ali at runrev.com (Ali Lloyd) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 18:48:32 +0000 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: References: <55D41281.6090501@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: A few words on the IDE: Although we've not been able to prioritise IDE development in the 8.0 cycle, a great deal of work has been done and groundwork for future improvement laid. Firstly, a fair portion of that work has gone into supporting widgets, both in terms of their integration in the IDE and in providing a means for their development. Perhaps the most important progress has been using script-only stacks for many parts of the IDE that were previously binary. The menu bar, tools palette, dictionary, property inspector, all the library stacks, the home stack and the script-editor behaviours have been moved/turned into single script-only stacks. In most cases this was a distinctly non-trivial task, but was carried out as a partial solution to the IDE vcs problem, and enables proper git flow and code review for most of the important parts of the IDE. It is now far easier for both us and the community to fix bugs and submit patches. If the IDE feels as though not much has changed, that is due in some part to the effort made to preserve behaviour whilst carrying out these changes. Architecturally a lot has changed too. Individual elements of the IDE now react to internal messages for which they have registered through a central IDE library. This will eventually make elements of the IDE much more pluggable, and also improve IDE performance. As far as I'm concerned these have all been strict prerequisites for any genuine progress on modernisation and usability improvements of the IDE. The biggest current roadblock is the script editor which is large and dense, and the debugger. These will likely be best rebuilt using LiveCode Builder, once it has sufficient features to do so. On Wed, 19 Aug 2015 at 17:16, Roger Eller wrote: > Good for beginners, yes. But also for speciaized areas of a workflow, like > navigation defaults. I didn't say lets make a UI that doesn't require any > code. The Automation Engine I use has tasks that are for specialty > purposes, but also within this workflow environment you can add a external > task icon, allowing it to run a javascript, vbscript, Adobe ExtendScript, > AppleScript, etc., and return values to variables (called SmartNames in > AE), and continue doing stuff. So, it depends on the approach I guess. If > the UI could be used to link screens (cards or stacks), and house the logic > of when to show them and what visual effects, etc. but also allow fully > scriptable LiveCode objects, it might allow a novice the ability to "ease > into" programming, or the expert the ability to get a UI built more > efficiently. > > ~Roger > > > > Roger EllerGraphics Systems Analyst > > 803 North Maple StreetP: 864.967.1625Simpsonville, SC 29681C: 864.908.0337 > SealedAir.com Roger.E.Eller at SealedAir.com > > > > > On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 11:35 AM, Scott Rossi > wrote: > > > This kind of visual drag-and-drop programming UI has been done (and will > > continue to be done) for decades, and works pretty well for simple logic. > > The whole "build without writing code" concept is pretty big right now. > > But visual programming becomes unwieldy and difficult to follow when > logic > > gets complex. And it's unlikely that a visual interface could handle all > > the options provided by the LiveCode language. But for simple projects, > > this could be useful for beginners, or when quickly building a stack. > > > > Apple's Automator has worked this way for years now, and Audio Hijack on > > OS X is another app that recently employed a visual UI: > > https://www.rogueamoeba.com/audiohijack/ > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Scott Rossi > > Creative Director > > Tactile Media, UX/UI Design > > > > > > > > > > On 8/19/15, 5:20 AM, "Roger Eller" wrote: > > > > >Speaking of workflows, we use a product called Automation Engine in our > > >prepress shop. You may not think "programming" when you hear the word > > >"prepress", but with AE, that is exactly what it is. We take business > > >logic, and map it to tasks, loops, forks, file io, error handlers, etc. > > >with a graphical workflow editor. Tasks are listed on the right, which > > >you > > >drag onto the workspace and arrange and connect them. Each task has > > >properties you set by double-clicking to open a panel. This would be a > > >slick way to build, or at least connect LC objects to their > > >inputs/outputs/errors. Have a look at this short video. Ignore the > stuff > > >about artwork QC. > > > > > >I think a "modern" editor should be something like this... not VB6. > > > > > >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbnaqbH5QK8 > > > > > >~Roger > > >On Aug 19, 2015 1:31 AM, "Richard Gaskin" > > >wrote: > > > > > >> Richmond wrote: > > >> > > >> > My main 'beef' with an IDE of the VB6 type is that it blocks the > > >> > desktop from view and doesn't seem good if one wants to rearrange > > >> > where one's palettes sit on the screen. > > >> > > > >> > Things might prove a bit awkward if one wants to make a stack as > > >> > big as one's desktop if one cannot shunt palettes around and about. > > >> > > > >> > Of course this is all about taste (meaning it's all in the mouth) > > >> > so it would seem best, if an all-in-one IDE like the VB6 one is > > >> > to be introduced to have it as one of 2 options. > > >> > > >> I believe it's more than about taste with LiveCode, it's about > workflow. > > >> > > >> LiveCode isn't like other languages, where working with controls is > > >>little > > >> more than a drawing program because nothing there is LIVE CODE. > > >> > > >> For us, it's less like building an app inside of an IDE as it is > running > > >> an IDE along side our apps. Our windows are separate because they're > > >>real > > >> windows, not just inert proxies. > > >> > > >> I went into this in greater detail a couple months back: > > >> > > >> > > >> The Viewer widget needed for that UI will be very nice for us, but I > > >>fear > > >> making an IDE based around it, as it would no longer be truly LIVE > CODE. > > >> > > >> -- > > >> Richard Gaskin > > >> Fourth World Systems > > >> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > > >> ____________________________________________________________________ > > >> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> use-livecode mailing list > > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > >> subscription preferences: > > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > >> > > >_______________________________________________ > > >use-livecode mailing list > > >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > >subscription preferences: > > >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Aug 19 14:52:11 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 21:52:11 +0300 Subject: [OT] Linux 32-bit to 64-bit Message-ID: <55D4D05B.7060103@gmail.com> I might actually "pull my finger out" and change my Xubuntu box over to a 64-bit version of the OS only because: 1. LiveCode 8 ????? 2. VMware player does not work on Xubuntu 15.04 or 15.10 with the 4.1 kernel. However, I am hoping I can do this while hanging onto my HOME partition . . . Can this be done? Richmond. From peter.brett at livecode.com Wed Aug 19 14:59:12 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 20:59:12 +0200 Subject: [OT] Linux 32-bit to 64-bit In-Reply-To: <55D4D05B.7060103@gmail.com> References: <55D4D05B.7060103@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4f11939e57107ed0773a71b117cc2e2e@livecode.com> On 2015-08-19 20:52, Richmond wrote: > I might actually "pull my finger out" and change my Xubuntu box over > to a 64-bit version of the OS only because: > > 1. LiveCode 8 ????? > > 2. VMware player does not work on Xubuntu 15.04 or 15.10 with the 4.1 > kernel. > > However, I am hoping I can do this while hanging onto my HOME partition > . . . > > Can this be done? Yes, I did exactly this a few years ago (in fact, I think I went 32-bit, to 64-bit, to 32-bit, and back to 64-bit, bringing my /home all the way). Unless you have custom-compiled programs in /home, you should be fine. Otherwise, you may need to compile them again, or install 32-bit compatibility libraries (because 64-bit Linux can still run 32-bit programs). Good luck! Peter P.S. I recommend making good backups first, of course. But I'm sure you already have them. :-) -- Dr Peter Brett From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Wed Aug 19 15:05:08 2015 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 21:05:08 +0200 Subject: [OT] Copyrighting games? In-Reply-To: <55D4B3A4.4000700@gmail.com> References: <55D4AE0E.30401@gmail.com> <617fd5e48dcf3f46592c7936a64999a0@livecode.com> <55D4B3A4.4000700@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55D4D364.4080304@economy-x-talk.com> Since nobody needs to pay money to "copyright" a work, or in fact nobody NEEDS to "copyright" a work, because it already is copyrighted, I'd say this website is merely a way to lose some money. If you want some real proof, just ask some people to read it for you and ask for comments. That is a great way to get some witnesses. Another way, which is often suggested, is to mail an envelope with your work, in this case e.g. the design or scripts, to yourself before you publish your game and leave the envelope closed. It isn't official, but it should be sufficient proof if there is ever a need for it. I would say the best way to proof that you're the author of a work is to publish it under your own name. If after some time nobody disputes the copyright, you can call yourself the rightful copyright holder. Eventually, there is always a way to steal someone's idea and make money with it. It is up to you to go to court in remote and sinister places. -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer KvK: 50277553 Installer Maker for LiveCode: http://qery.us/468 Buy my new book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner" http://qery.us/3fi LiveCode on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/runrev/ On 8/19/2015 18:49, Richmond wrote: > On 19/08/15 19:39, Peter TB Brett wrote: >> On 2015-08-19 18:25, Richmond wrote: >>> I have recently invented a tiling game that can be produced as a >>> physical game and as a computer game. >>> This involved a lot of thought and a lot of work, and as a result I >>> would like to try and make some money >>> out of it rather than just "give it to the world". >>> >>> However, never having copyrighted anything except a book in 1985, I >>> don't know how to go about this. >>> >>> My main concern would be, initially at least, within the European >>> Community. >>> >>> I would be grateful for any advice anyone can give me. >> >> Since quite a long time ago now, every creative work automatically has >> copyright protection from the moment of creation -- and, by treaty, >> this protection extends worldwide. >> >> There is no need to register your copyright any more in order to >> receive protection (although it may assist in enforcement). >> >> On the other hand, whether you have copyright on something and whether >> you can make money out of it are usually uncorrelated. > > Ha, Ha, Ha . . . of course. > > However, before I roll along to the local plastic moulding factory I > want to try to ensure that the owner of the factory doesn't > merrily steal my product or start selling copies out the back door. > > I am tempted to register here: https://www.workscopyright.com/ as it is > quick and inexpensive. > > Money is as money does, and I am notoriously bad with money. But I am > aware that if I want to *try* and sell my product rather > than just give it away (at which point somebody else can make money from > my bright idea) I need a bit of what Gene Wilder was talking about > in the first version of /Charlie and the Chocolate Factory/. > > Richmond. > >> >> Peter >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Aug 19 15:09:53 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 14:09:53 -0500 Subject: Importing unicode UTF8 text files - followup Message-ID: <55D4D481.4070404@hyperactivesw.com> Just to follow up: When importing foreign language files, "file" isn't working. Non-ascii characters show up as question marks and textDecode does nothing. Using "binfile" and then textDecoding does import correctly but then text chunking by lines fails. Line endings are imported as 2 bytes using byteToNum 13,10 (in that order) which isn't the line ending standard for any OS. I have to replace those specifically. These are text files saved as UTF-8, created on Mac OS X and imported on Mac OS X. I'm using LC 7.0.6. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Aug 19 15:10:17 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 12:10:17 -0700 Subject: [OT] Copyrighting games? In-Reply-To: <55D4CAEE.5090905@gmail.com> References: <55D4CAEE.5090905@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55D4D499.6010709@fourthworld.com> Richmond wrote: > I would like, initially to market it in the form of either plastic or > card tiles in a box. > > Later on I might make a LiveCode game with it, using a commercial > version of LiveCode. > > In the latter case I would want to make sure that another company > would be discouraged from making a clone of the game - i.e. ripping > off the idea rather than stealing the code. I am not a lawyer, and specific vary by jurisdiction, but my lay understanding is that in the States one cannot copyright an idea, only the manifest expression of an idea, such as code. Protection for broader concerns like design may require a design patent, which is not only expensive to get but many orders of magnitude more expensive to enforce. And even when you have pockets as deep as the wealthiest and most powerful multinational on earth, Apple, the reliability of a design patent is at best specious: Apple has lost as many design patent assertions as they've gained, in some jurisdictions some of their design patents have been dismissed by the court and in others ruled completely invalid. Watching Apple v Samsung unfold around the world in so many jurisdictions has been very educational. Indeed, even Apple and Samsung have agreed to a truce calling off all outstanding suits in all jurisdictions outside the one remaining pending case in US, where damages were dropped significantly once again just last week as the court dismissed yet another design patent from the mix. Design patents are a rich man's game, a high-risk gamble for everyone involved with only one sure winner: any attorney on either side of such a suit, where fees can easily creep into the millions over the months and sometimes years it can take to complete such a suit and subsequent appeals. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Wed Aug 19 15:19:09 2015 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe | M-R-D) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 21:19:09 +0200 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: References: <55D41281.6090501@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <907D6001-CD5B-48C2-A29F-98D6E87BF863@m-r-d.de> > Am 19.08.2015 um 20:31 schrieb Scott Rossi : > > Never used it, but yeah. > > I was thinking of something like MTropolis which wasn't really free form, > but similar. Thinking of mTropolis brings tears to my eyes. A great tool with a really sad end. Shame on you Quark Inc. ! Still have a complete mTropolis 1.1 package with V2 upgrade on the shelf. Pure nostalgia! Regards, Matthias > http://www.gamutart.com/motion/interactivity/muntadss_mtropoli_view.gif > > > Regards, > > Scott Rossi > Creative Director > Tactile Media, UX/UI Design > > From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Aug 19 15:23:32 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 14:23:32 -0500 Subject: Importing unicode UTF8 text files - followup In-Reply-To: <55D4D481.4070404@hyperactivesw.com> References: <55D4D481.4070404@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <55D4D7B4.3050304@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/19/2015 2:09 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > Just to follow up: When importing foreign language files, "file" isn't > working. Non-ascii characters show up as question marks and textDecode > does nothing. > > Using "binfile" and then textDecoding does import correctly but then > text chunking by lines fails. Line endings are imported as 2 bytes using > byteToNum 13,10 (in that order) which isn't the line ending standard for > any OS. I have to replace those specifically. > > These are text files saved as UTF-8, created on Mac OS X and imported on > Mac OS X. I'm using LC 7.0.6. > Sigh. They don't all do that. Some of the files have CR endings. It seems to vary by language. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From brahma at hindu.org Wed Aug 19 15:26:54 2015 From: brahma at hindu.org (Brahmanathaswami) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 09:26:54 -1000 Subject: STACKLE - RSRC for LC Stacks - Are U Interested? Message-ID: <55D4D87E.7090706@hindu.org> STACKLE: Really Simple Revision Contro (RSRC) l for LC Livecode (and perhaps any other document type) "Pass the Baton/Stack" Well the day has come. I'm going to build it. I needed this two months ago. If you are interested, please reply off list. I will create a Google doc and invite anyone who responds in the next 72 hours... We take this discussion off line (Please don't ask me to renegotiate this decision) among those who are interested... hammer out the spec for V1 in a week or less and I will get it built) Once we have a functional tool we will give it to the community, free of charge... GIVEN THE FOLLOWING: 1) the VCS discussion is for super brains; even if realized may involve a level (GIT) of system management overhead/learning curve that developers focused on actual content production -- don't need, have time for, nor want to "go there." 2) We still don't have any other collaboration tool 3) We still don't have SFTP. 4) I don't see anything on the open market that does this (except Altuits old Magic Carpet which is off the map because it uses FTP and not SFTP) It is here by proposed to build a "pass the baton" style stack collaboration tool. I have this working in house of InDesign Documents. the core of the frame work for my app called "Grapple" is very simple. it's been working for a team of 10 for five years, flawlessly. I am "transpositing" this spec to LC stack but here is how it works 1) there is a repository on central server: e.g. /Volumes [public_html]/stackle-version-control 2) Projects are just folders on this server. e.g. /stackle-version-control/conquer-dev-isolation 3) there is a local repository on the user's machine with projects that match in ~/documents/stackle-version-control/conquer-dev-isolation 4) the server projects folders also have an /stackle-version-control/conquer-dev-isolation/archives folder inside each one. The core code uses shell cmds cp (to copy a file from the local machine to the server, vice versa and to copy archive versions) mv (aka "rename" files) The RCS is handle by an old-fashioned RCS string tagged to the end of the document/stack file name. conquer-dev-isolation_r1-co-BR.livecode where the RCS string indicates, revision number, checked in or out status and the current editor. the new app will use rsync instead... There may also be a small supporting api requirement on the web server. 4) when a file is checked in the string is appended to the file name e.g conquer-dev-isolation.livecode becomes conquer-dev-isolation_r1-c1-BR.livecode a copy is made (we make lots and lots of copies!) this is saved in the local project folder and the file is posted to the central server in the project folder. To check out: 1) conquer-dev-isolation_r1-c1-BR.livecode on the server is copied to the /stackle-version-control/conquer-dev-isolation/archives/conquer-dev-isolation_r1-c1-BR.livecode 2) the "top" version is renamed to conquer-dev-isolation_r2-co-BR.livecode and downloaded to the local version control... From inside the UI you can launch these documents. Work and save, work and save (on conquer-dev-isolation_r2-co-BR.livecode) At check in time, a copy of conquer-dev-isolation_r2-co-BR.livecode is made locally and it's name is changed to conquer-dev-isolation_r3-ci-BR.livecode. and posted to the server... on the server the top file which is named conquer-dev-isolation_r2-co-BR.livecode is moved to archives (an exact duplicate of the one already stored in archives... redundant, I know but you would be surprised what can go wrong where having these is useful) and the top file is now: conquer-dev-isolation_r3-ci-BR.livecode The GUI is really just a clickable "finder" index showing the files in on the server folder for a given project. That's it -- beginning and end of story.. To my existing framework i plan to add three additionalal project files conquer-dev-isolation_discussion.txt # no wikis, no google docs. just one simple text file for comments ideas etc. conquer-dev-isolation_specification.txt # formal spec with V1 features, road map etc. conquer-dev-isolation_time-log.txt # line delimited file with file name, check-in date stamp, developer name and time spent on the stack/file (prompt on check in for developer: "How much time did you spend on this iteration") This last file can be used for billing purposes, download, parse and invoice/pay -- but V1 of STACKLE will not offer any further accounting "tools" More details: REQUIREMENTS: WHO: Admin= LEAD(in charge) HOST(just offers server space) CLIENT (corporate entity, manager, admin dev) collaborators (works under lead) participants (kinda open source on hosted files) Paid devs (working for client) But STACKLE will not know and does not want to know who is who. A project may have a LEAD/CLIENT with some helping probono and other on a paid basis, but the app doesn't care.. that's a private arrangement SERVER: Admin - LEAD/HOST/CLIENT must have a web server with root access admin rights, or at least be able to install SSH keys to the version control directory. Collaborators/Devs must be able to generate SSH keys and send to LEAD OUT OF SCOPE (What STACKLE will never do, at least not V1-3) NO LOGIN/ACL FRAMEWORK We do not provide any way for user to register, set user name, password, etc ... nothing.. LEAD must get ssh keys from DEVS (or grant them SFTP access and log into the server if that level of trust is part of the relationship: but STACKLE doesn't know and does not want to have anything to do with LogIn/ACL. NO DELETE OR HOUSEKEEPING FUNCTIONS The never ever offers any commands like this rm delete put empty into url... [whatever] copies just pile up everywhere. there is no opportunity for any user ever, to "blow it" by deleting any version. We have "super redundancy" Worst case scenario: server dies... no problem, collaborators have latest copies on their machines. admin + clients are responsible for their own housekeeping (you can accrue gigabytes of archives very quickly. NO ADDITIONAL RESOURCES MANAGEMENT Some mobile apps will only work with adjacent resources SuperCoolWidget_r5-ci-BR.livecode /img /photos /audio /icons /data STACKLE doesn't know about these.. it will be up to LEAD/HOST/CLIENT to give these or a subset of these to collaborators/participants/devs. LEAD/HOST/CLIENT may also give SFTP access to dev the server... STACKLE doesn't know about this and doesn't care and doesn't want to be part of any of that. CAVEATS: The long ID of the stack if you are hard wiring the string which is the name on disk of your stack, which is in the last segment of of "the long id of this stack" in the code... it will break, because the file name on disk is constantly changing. I stay away from that myself I'm not sure how to get around that one, or if it even matters. stack "/Users/Brahmanathaswami/Documents/_Gurudeva Memorial App Development/Gurudeva.livecode" will constantly be updated to stack "/Users/Brahmanathaswami/Documents/_Gurudeva Memorial App Development/Gurudeva_r5-co-BR.livecode" stack "/Users/Brahmanathaswami/Documents/_Gurudeva Memorial App Development/Gurudeva_r6-ci-BR.livecode" ... so that's one caveat If interested, email me off list soon. I have more to add to the above spec, but will save it for the Google Doc. After I invite the initial "crew" we will close the door on that until V1 comes out. I realize that some of this way of operating goes against the "open community" way of thinking, but as a "production manager: (my official hat here) I am tasked "getting the job done" and not with endless talking about something we need that never manifests, so we have to establish constraints to move forward efficiently. I want to have this build the next 30 days. Once we get rolling I can't be dealing list or forum posts... and if you want some input it will be appreciated... ten pairs of eyes are better than 2. If it succeeds and is useful we can put it out there in the wild... Swasti Astu, Be Well! Brahmanathaswami Kauai's Hindu Monastery www.HimalayanAcademy.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Aug 19 15:33:05 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 12:33:05 -0700 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55D4D9F1.6010709@fourthworld.com> Ali Lloyd wrote: > As far as I'm concerned these have all been strict prerequisites > for any genuine progress on modernisation and usability improvements > of the IDE. > > The biggest current roadblock is the script editor which is large and > dense, and the debugger. Excellent progress. With that foundational work out of the way it would seem an excellent time to optimize the most important part of the IDE, the script editor. Version 7 is where the company makes money today, and as the foundation for v8 it's also where the company will make its money tomorrow. So taking at least one engineer off of longer-term greenfield projects like Widgets to make sure the Script Editor is both robust and performant would seem an excellent investment, raising conversion rates now and in the future. > These will likely be best rebuilt using LiveCode Builder, once it has > sufficient features to do so. I hear LiveCode Script is a pretty good language to program in. :) Why not use what's in hand and working now to address things that are impairing the experience for people trying out the product today? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From peter.brett at livecode.com Wed Aug 19 15:34:49 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 21:34:49 +0200 Subject: Importing unicode UTF8 text files - followup In-Reply-To: <55D4D481.4070404@hyperactivesw.com> References: <55D4D481.4070404@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <0427994f11722778d27b5aa54a63433e@livecode.com> On 2015-08-19 21:09, J. Landman Gay wrote: > Just to follow up: When importing foreign language files, "file" isn't > working. Non-ascii characters show up as question marks and textDecode > does nothing. > > Using "binfile" and then textDecoding does import correctly but then > text chunking by lines fails. Line endings are imported as 2 bytes > using byteToNum 13,10 (in that order) which isn't the line ending > standard for any OS. I have to replace those specifically. > > These are text files saved as UTF-8, created on Mac OS X and imported > on Mac OS X. I'm using LC 7.0.6. Hmm, this all sounds quite problematic. Obvious thing to check: are you sure your files are valid UTF-8? The following command will print "0" if the file is valid UTF-8 and "1" otherwise: iconv -f UTF-8 your_file > /dev/null ; echo $? Otherwise, if you have a test case that you don't mind sharing, could you please file a bug report and add me (e-mail address below) to the Cc list? Otherwise, please e-mail me directly. If you could test with LiveCode 7.0.1-rc-1, that would also be quite helpful. I *definitely can't* guarantee a quick fix, but it's possible something obvious is going wrong or we can find a quick workaround. Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Engine Development Team From peter.brett at livecode.com Wed Aug 19 15:39:34 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 21:39:34 +0200 Subject: STACKLE - RSRC for LC Stacks - Are U =?UTF-8?Q?Interested=3F?= In-Reply-To: <55D4D87E.7090706@hindu.org> References: <55D4D87E.7090706@hindu.org> Message-ID: <4a0c96265972f120d80378cccac537f4@livecode.com> On 2015-08-19 21:26, Brahmanathaswami wrote: > STACKLE: Really Simple Revision Contro (RSRC) l for LC Livecode (and > perhaps any other document type) > > "Pass the Baton/Stack" > > Well the day has come. I'm going to build it. I needed this two months > ago. > > If you are interested, please reply off list. I will create a Google > doc and invite anyone who responds in the next 72 hours... We take > this discussion off line (Please don't ask me to renegotiate this > decision) among those who are interested... hammer out the spec for V1 > in a week or less and I will get it built) > > Once we have a functional tool we will give it to the community, free > of charge... > > [snip] Subversion does everything you've described already, better (including the file locking aspects). And it has an HTTPS interface, so you could write a client in LiveCode that uses libUrl to communicate with a Subversion server. Peter -- Dr Peter Brett From christer at mindcrea.com Wed Aug 19 15:46:13 2015 From: christer at mindcrea.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Pyyhti=E4_Christer?=) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 22:46:13 +0300 Subject: What is this - is anyone making money? Message-ID: Although playing around with LiveCode for a number of years and enjoying - often 'trial and error' - haven't really got anywhere close to see the fruits for the effort making an application. As many of us I have paid for the licenses, put money out for free development expecting some wanted features, continued for Indie advancement payments (hope to live beyond the licenses expire), I have to ask my colleague developers, are you making any money with the apps you develop (with LC)? Or is it just fun? Are you ingenious enough to hit the sweet spot what is driving the downloads? This is nothing against LC - rather a question to answer to possible $ supporters if to continue pursuing the efforts & telling 'this will be the thing'. Another question is where is the beef for the different apps. Games, plays - but does anything serious drive apps in iOS world. What about Android, is there a different worlds of users? Finally, is everything just games and plays, is there any interest for value applications, which is not 'just here and now'? What's there for serious app development, is everything just what is the click for just now, just today? Have fun, Christer Pyyhti? MindCrea Ltd Mobile: +358-400-410216 Skype: christerp1 christer at mindcrea.com From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Aug 19 15:48:43 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 22:48:43 +0300 Subject: Autosave Message-ID: <55D4DD9B.8070008@gmail.com> Why does this script NOT work in a small stack? on mouseUp palette stack "AUTOSAVE" put the short name of the topStack into TSTAK put TSTAK & " / " & the time & " / " & the date into TSTAKN put TSTAKN into fld "TSTAKN" save the topstack as TSTAKN end mouseUp Richmond. From lyn.teyla at gmail.com Wed Aug 19 15:53:01 2015 From: lyn.teyla at gmail.com (Lyn Teyla) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 21:53:01 +0200 Subject: libCurl wrapper using LiveCode Builder [was: Re: SFTP support] In-Reply-To: <722fa674864ddfce0a163ef594402d13@livecode.com> References: <"> <4417607974232833140@unknownmsgid> <"> <55D294C5.6020605@hyperactivesw.com> <55D29FC3.4090704@hindu.org> <55D2BCB8.3070501@hyperactivesw.com> <55D398B5.40308@hindu.org> <32c0141eb08b86f4e0804cc123731539@livecode.com> <5946687A-54B2-4063-906C-5491250DC612@gmail.com> <722fa674864ddfce0a163ef594402d13@livecode.com> Message-ID: <66070424-A400-4124-AE9F-5A75908CBEAF@gmail.com> Peter TB Brett wrote: > On 2015-08-19 20:27, Lyn Teyla wrote: > >> Have you guys at LiveCode Ltd thought about implementing this revamp >> of networking/sockets by simply writing a libCurl wrapper using >> LiveCode Builder? > > Yes -- one of our very first, high priority ideas for an LCB-based project. I even made a start on it, and I have an internal project [1] that would really benefit from it. However, it's not yet technically possible, I'm afraid. > > I expect the necessary LCB language features to appear in a LiveCode 8.x release, where x > 0. Some of them are floating around in Mark Waddingham's GitHub repository in various states of completion. Thanks for the info. Looking forward to it. :) Just for clarity, could you elaborate on what you said earlier: > The regular requests for SFTP support are noted and SFTP support is on our internal list of feature requests -- indeed, I was recently discussing it with Mark Waddingham. However, it will be a large project that will involve writing and thoroughly testing a lot of new, security-critical code. When we have the resources available to implement it, it will therefore very likely be introduced an extension available to LiveCode Business customers. If a libCurl wrapper using LCB is in development, wouldn't the above be a non-issue? That is, adding SFTP (or any other libCurl-supported protocol) shouldn't need to involve writing and testing a lot of new, security-critical code, since libCurl has already taken care of that? Or am I missing something? Lyn From lists at mangomultimedia.com Wed Aug 19 15:56:07 2015 From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 15:56:07 -0400 Subject: libCurl wrapper using LiveCode Builder [was: Re: SFTP support] In-Reply-To: <722fa674864ddfce0a163ef594402d13@livecode.com> References: <4417607974232833140@unknownmsgid> <55D294C5.6020605@hyperactivesw.com> <55D29FC3.4090704@hindu.org> <55D2BCB8.3070501@hyperactivesw.com> <55D398B5.40308@hindu.org> <32c0141eb08b86f4e0804cc123731539@livecode.com> <5946687A-54B2-4063-906C-5491250DC612@gmail.com> <722fa674864ddfce0a163ef594402d13@livecode.com> Message-ID: On Wednesday, August 19, 2015, Peter TB Brett wrote: > On 2015-08-19 20:27, Lyn Teyla wrote: > > Have you guys at LiveCode Ltd thought about implementing this revamp >> of networking/sockets by simply writing a libCurl wrapper using >> LiveCode Builder? >> > > Yes -- one of our very first, high priority ideas for an LCB-based > project. I even made a start on it, and I have an internal project [1] > that would really benefit from it. However, it's not yet technically > possible, I'm afraid. > One way people can help with the internet library right now is reviewing this forum thread I started on library syntax and features. http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=93&t=24489 Fleshing out ideas on syntax and feature support necessary for use in LiveCode (regardless of whether it is curl or some other library) can be done now and helps the team know what we need for our projects. -- Trevor DeVore From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Aug 19 16:03:45 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 13:03:45 -0700 Subject: Autosave In-Reply-To: <55D4DD9B.8070008@gmail.com> References: <55D4DD9B.8070008@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55D4E121.8050607@fourthworld.com> Richmond wrote: > Why does this script NOT work in a small stack? > > on mouseUp > palette stack "AUTOSAVE" > put the short name of the topStack into TSTAK > put TSTAK & " / " & the time & " / " & the date into TSTAKN > put TSTAKN into fld "TSTAKN" > save the topstack as TSTAKN > end mouseUp Does it work on a large stack? It might be problematic with a stack of any size since the date returns a value that contains "/", which is used as a path delimiter on OS X and Linux. What does "the result" give you after the save command? If instead of changing the path of the current stack what you're looking to do is make a copy of it to a new location, I'd make a copy of the file itself and leave the in-memory stack alone. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Aug 19 16:29:04 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 15:29:04 -0500 Subject: Importing unicode UTF8 text files - followup In-Reply-To: <0427994f11722778d27b5aa54a63433e@livecode.com> References: <55D4D481.4070404@hyperactivesw.com> <0427994f11722778d27b5aa54a63433e@livecode.com> Message-ID: <55D4E710.1040002@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/19/2015 2:34 PM, Peter TB Brett wrote: > On 2015-08-19 21:09, J. Landman Gay wrote: >> Just to follow up: When importing foreign language files, "file" isn't >> working. Non-ascii characters show up as question marks and textDecode >> does nothing. >> >> Using "binfile" and then textDecoding does import correctly but then >> text chunking by lines fails. Line endings are imported as 2 bytes >> using byteToNum 13,10 (in that order) which isn't the line ending >> standard for any OS. I have to replace those specifically. >> >> These are text files saved as UTF-8, created on Mac OS X and imported >> on Mac OS X. I'm using LC 7.0.6. > > Hmm, this all sounds quite problematic. > > > Obvious thing to check: are you sure your files are valid UTF-8? The > following command will print "0" if the file is valid UTF-8 and "1" > otherwise: > > iconv -f UTF-8 your_file > /dev/null ; echo $? > > > Otherwise, if you have a test case that you don't mind sharing, could > you please file a bug report and add me (e-mail address below) to the Cc > list? Otherwise, please e-mail me directly. If you could test with > LiveCode 7.0.1-rc-1, that would also be quite helpful. > > I *definitely can't* guarantee a quick fix, but it's possible something > obvious is going wrong or we can find a quick workaround. > > Peter Thanks very much. The terminal command returns 0 (and BBEdit can handle the file too) so it seems to be valid. I'll submit a bug report, I can share the file without any issues. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From peter.brett at livecode.com Wed Aug 19 16:32:14 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 22:32:14 +0200 Subject: libCurl wrapper using LiveCode Builder [was: Re: SFTP support] In-Reply-To: <66070424-A400-4124-AE9F-5A75908CBEAF@gmail.com> References: <"> <4417607974232833140@unknownmsgid> <"> <55D294C5.6020605@hyperactivesw.com> <55D29FC3.4090704@hindu.org> <55D2BCB8.3070501@hyperactivesw.com> <55D398B5.40308@hindu.org> <32c0141eb08b86f4e0804cc123731539@livecode.com> <5946687A-54B2-4063-906C-5491250DC612@gmail.com> <722fa674864ddfce0a163ef594402d13@livecode.com> <66070424-A400-4124-AE9F-5A75908CBEAF@gmail.com> Message-ID: <86db9be42ac94a18126b8a382b74f0e6@livecode.com> On 2015-08-19 21:53, Lyn Teyla wrote: > If a libCurl wrapper using LCB is in development, wouldn't the above > be a non-issue? That is, adding SFTP (or any other libCurl-supported > protocol) shouldn't need to involve writing and testing a lot of new, > security-critical code, since libCurl has already taken care of that? > Or am I missing something? It's not "in development". I started it (i.e. I wrote about 100 lines of code and opened a massive can of worms in the process). Then I stopped and found a different solution. There's a *lot* of research and development still to do before we can produce a generally-useful LCB URL library based on libcurl. That doesn't mean that we don't want to do it, or that we don't think it's worth doing! It *does* mean that, if we're talking about an internally-funded project, we're much more likely to be able to provide a Business-only SFTP extension than do a big refactor around LCB and libcurl. This is just the reality of the resources available. On the other hand, if there was external funding for such a project... Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Engine Development Team From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Wed Aug 19 16:45:31 2015 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe | M-R-D) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 22:45:31 +0200 Subject: What is this - is anyone making money? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4CF68F42-4F42-44CA-90EF-CC47014A12E9@m-r-d.de> I am pretty sure there are many who made and still make money with Livecode apps. I for example have an app, unfortunately a niche product, which i am selling through Kagi for some time which gives me some revenue. I am selling round about 10 to 20 copies a month. I?ve created 6 iOS and Android apps for customers. 5 of them are listed under the customer names. I?ve created an inhouse iPad app for a customer which is used by sales representatives to sell products to undertakers. And i?ve created several inhouse apps (pricelist tools, reporting tools, download portals and other db stuff) some in combination with livecode server for use in our own company. Okay, with our inhouse stuff i did not earn money, but we spent a lot, because we did not have to hire some one to do this for us. At the moment i cannot earn a living with my LiveCode stuff, but i am still happy with LiveCode, because i see at least some revenue. Matthias > Am 19.08.2015 um 21:46 schrieb Pyyhti? Christer : > > Although playing around with LiveCode for a number of years and enjoying - often 'trial and error' - haven't really got anywhere close to see the fruits for the effort making an application. > > As many of us I have paid for the licenses, put money out for free development expecting some wanted features, continued for Indie advancement payments (hope to live beyond the licenses expire), I have to ask my colleague developers, are you making any money with the apps you develop (with LC)? Or is it just fun? Are you ingenious enough to hit the sweet spot what is driving the downloads? This is nothing against LC - rather a question to answer to possible $ supporters if to continue pursuing the efforts & telling 'this will be the thing'. > > Another question is where is the beef for the different apps. Games, plays - but does anything serious drive apps in iOS world. What about Android, is there a different worlds of users? Finally, is everything just games and plays, is there any interest for value applications, which is not 'just here and now'? What's there for serious app development, is everything just what is the click for just now, just today? > > Have fun, > > Christer Pyyhti? > MindCrea Ltd > Mobile: +358-400-410216 > Skype: christerp1 > christer at mindcrea.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From monte at sweattechnologies.com Wed Aug 19 16:50:15 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 06:50:15 +1000 Subject: STACKLE - RSRC for LC Stacks - Are U Interested? In-Reply-To: <4a0c96265972f120d80378cccac537f4@livecode.com> References: <55D4D87E.7090706@hindu.org> <4a0c96265972f120d80378cccac537f4@livecode.com> Message-ID: > On 20 Aug 2015, at 5:39 am, Peter TB Brett wrote: > > Subversion does everything you've described already, better (including the file locking aspects). And it has an HTTPS interface, so you could write a client in LiveCode that uses libUrl to communicate with a Subversion server. Too quick for me Peter I was going to say the same thing! From monte at sweattechnologies.com Wed Aug 19 16:54:23 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 06:54:23 +1000 Subject: STACKLE - RSRC for LC Stacks - Are U Interested? In-Reply-To: <55D4D87E.7090706@hindu.org> References: <55D4D87E.7090706@hindu.org> Message-ID: > On 20 Aug 2015, at 5:26 am, Brahmanathaswami wrote: > > 1) the VCS discussion is for super brains; even if realized may involve a level (GIT) of system management overhead/learning curve that developers focused on actual content production -- don't need, have time for, nor want to "go there." Hmm? maybe although I strongly suspect that if you spent the amount of time you are prepared to spend building a custom version control system in LC learning about git you would end up knowing intricacies about git that even Linus has forgotten... From harrison at all-auctions.com Wed Aug 19 16:59:47 2015 From: harrison at all-auctions.com (Rick Harrison) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 16:59:47 -0400 Subject: [OT] Copyrighting games? In-Reply-To: <55D4CAEE.5090905@gmail.com> References: <55D4AE0E.30401@gmail.com> <617fd5e48dcf3f46592c7936a64999a0@livecode.com> <55D4B3A4.4000700@gmail.com> <4E48BACF-41F3-4868-974F-E367AFD23EB1@all-auctions.com> <55D4CAEE.5090905@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2B7C4D53-48E0-43CA-BC4B-F2DE568A5D2B@all-auctions.com> Hi Richmond, When trying to get your cost estimates from the manufacturer just use the same tile example you showed us. They only need to know how many pieces they are producing, and as to how difficult the pieces might be to produce using how many colors etc. Don?t give them any specifics which would give away your game idea all together. A hardware game is much more expensive and difficult to produce. If I were you I do the software version first, and if it takes off then produce the hardware version. That?s what ?Angry Birds? did. You should be able to produce a hardware version prototype on your own. If you really need someone to do it for you, break up the pieces if they are very different from each other and farm each piece out to a different producer so that no one gets the whole picture of what you are doing. Don?t show them the rules etc. One of the big problems working with a manufacturer is their requirements that you order a minimum number of items, (usually in the thousands of items) to make it worth their while to produce what you want. Of course that also costs thousands of dollars as well. Copyright is relatively easy. Patents are not. Cheers, Rick From peter.brett at livecode.com Wed Aug 19 17:12:20 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 23:12:20 +0200 Subject: Importing unicode UTF8 text files - followup In-Reply-To: <55D4E710.1040002@hyperactivesw.com> References: <55D4D481.4070404@hyperactivesw.com> <0427994f11722778d27b5aa54a63433e@livecode.com> <55D4E710.1040002@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: On 2015-08-19 22:29, J. Landman Gay wrote: > > Thanks very much. The terminal command returns 0 (and BBEdit can > handle the file too) so it seems to be valid. I'll submit a bug > report, I can share the file without any issues. The following seems to work correctly: on importLanguage local tFile answer file "Choose the language file" put it into tFile if tFile is empty then exit to top open file tFile for "UTF-8" text read read from file tFile until EOF put it into tData -- etc. end importLanguage So... I don't suppose I can persuade you to upgrade to LiveCode Business, can I? Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Engine Development Team From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Aug 19 17:23:51 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 16:23:51 -0500 Subject: Importing unicode UTF8 text files - followup In-Reply-To: References: <55D4D481.4070404@hyperactivesw.com> <0427994f11722778d27b5aa54a63433e@livecode.com> <55D4E710.1040002@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <55D4F3E7.4070808@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/19/2015 4:12 PM, Peter TB Brett wrote: > On 2015-08-19 22:29, J. Landman Gay wrote: >> >> Thanks very much. The terminal command returns 0 (and BBEdit can >> handle the file too) so it seems to be valid. I'll submit a bug >> report, I can share the file without any issues. > > The following seems to work correctly: > > on importLanguage > local tFile > answer file "Choose the language file" > put it into tFile > if tFile is empty then exit to top > open file tFile for "UTF-8" text read > read from file tFile until EOF > put it into tData > > -- etc. > > end importLanguage > > So... I don't suppose I can persuade you to upgrade to LiveCode > Business, can I? I shouldn't need Business for that, should I? My script uses "get url", I guess "open file" works differently? You must have looked at my bug report already, you're using my variable names. :) -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From monte at sweattechnologies.com Wed Aug 19 17:29:24 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 07:29:24 +1000 Subject: Importing unicode UTF8 text files - followup In-Reply-To: <55D4F3E7.4070808@hyperactivesw.com> References: <55D4D481.4070404@hyperactivesw.com> <0427994f11722778d27b5aa54a63433e@livecode.com> <55D4E710.1040002@hyperactivesw.com> <55D4F3E7.4070808@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <45BD5C29-E021-42B1-9881-B2BB62E36832@sweattechnologies.com> > On 20 Aug 2015, at 7:23 am, J. Landman Gay wrote: > >> So... I don't suppose I can persuade you to upgrade to LiveCode >> Business, can I? > > I shouldn't need Business for that, should I? My script uses "get url", I guess "open file" works differently? > > You must have looked at my bug report already, you're using my variable names. :) I think he?s suggesting that?s the blistering pace of support you get with a Business license ;-) BTW I hadn?t seen the encoding options on open file.. cool From simon at asato-media.com Wed Aug 19 17:28:18 2015 From: simon at asato-media.com (Simon) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 14:28:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: What is this - is anyone making money? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1440019698698-4695382.post@n4.nabble.com> Oh Yes! I've made a living for the past 8 or 9 years from apps I built with liveCode. No I have not become a multi millionaire but am doing fine. I guess what I do a bit differently is I get a job within a company and they do all the marketing stuff. I just code and talk to IT people. Recently I worked with a couple of neurologist to make an iOS and Android app for their patients. This will continue on for several chronic diseases, each needing a specific app. We meet once a week and the rest is all telecommuting. Super Fun. So my approach is different in that I'm not selling apps really, but the tech talk guy who codes in LiveCode. Simon -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/What-is-this-is-anyone-making-money-tp4695368p4695382.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From ali at runrev.com Wed Aug 19 17:40:08 2015 From: ali at runrev.com (Ali Lloyd) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 21:40:08 +0000 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: <55D4D9F1.6010709@fourthworld.com> References: <55D4D9F1.6010709@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: > > > Excellent progress. With that foundational work out of the way it would > seem an excellent time to optimize the most important part of the IDE, > the script editor. > > Version 7 is where the company makes money today, and as the foundation > for v8 it's also where the company will make its money tomorrow. > > So taking at least one engineer off of longer-term greenfield projects > like Widgets to make sure the Script Editor is both robust and > performant would seem an excellent investment, raising conversion rates > now and in the future. > > I agree that efforts should be made to ensure that the 7.x script editor is at least as robust and performant as it is in 6.x or earlier. I was more trying to address concerns about progress towards the "new IDE". My feeling is that work beyond dealing with 7.x regressions (and I include performance issues in the regressions category) would probably be better spent on a new script editor. From ali at runrev.com Wed Aug 19 17:41:33 2015 From: ali at runrev.com (Ali Lloyd) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 21:41:33 +0000 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: References: <55D4D9F1.6010709@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Sorry, it seems part of that accidentally became a quote. From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Wed Aug 19 17:50:10 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 16:50:10 -0500 Subject: Importing unicode UTF8 text files - followup In-Reply-To: <45BD5C29-E021-42B1-9881-B2BB62E36832@sweattechnologies.com> References: <55D4D481.4070404@hyperactivesw.com> <0427994f11722778d27b5aa54a63433e@livecode.com> <55D4E710.1040002@hyperactivesw.com> <55D4F3E7.4070808@hyperactivesw.com> <45BD5C29-E021-42B1-9881-B2BB62E36832@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <55D4FA12.30805@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/19/2015 4:29 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > >> On 20 Aug 2015, at 7:23 am, J. Landman Gay wrote: >> >>> So... I don't suppose I can persuade you to upgrade to LiveCode >>> Business, can I? >> >> I shouldn't need Business for that, should I? My script uses "get url", I guess "open file" works differently? >> >> You must have looked at my bug report already, you're using my variable names. :) > > I think he?s suggesting that?s the blistering pace of support you get with a Business license ;-) Urf. I completely missed that, my brain is mush after all my attempts to get the import working. I do have to say that Peter gave me the fix within a few minutes after I hit "Submit" on the bug report. And it does work. :) Thank you Peter! -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Aug 19 17:54:16 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 14:54:16 -0700 Subject: What is this - is anyone making money? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55D4FB08.8020502@fourthworld.com> Pyyhti? Christer wrote: > As many of us I have paid for the licenses, put money out for free > development expecting some wanted features, continued for Indie > advancement payments (hope to live beyond the licenses expire), > I have to ask my colleague developers, are you making any money with > the apps you develop (with LC)? Or is it just fun? Buying a saw, a hammer, some nails, and some wood won't provide you a home. A home is more than raw materials and tools. It requires experienced skill. And not just one, but a combination of many different skills, from architecture to construction to decorating and more. A business is the same. There's more to it than just writing a check. Much more. Every project I've worked on for many years has provided strong positive ROI for the owner. Some of these are profitable products, others cost-saving internal tools. All of them involve groups of people experienced in their parts of it working together toward a set of goals identified and prioritized according to the value they deliver to the organization. It's not easy, but neither is playing piano, or managing archaeology surveys, or teaching high school English, or anything else people do professionally. To be good at anything is a function of time spent practicing. Malcolm Gladwell estimates that the time needed to truly master just about anything is roughly 10,000 hours. So at 5,000 hours one can expect to at least be very good, and at 1,000 hours far better off than not having spent the time studying the task at all. If you want to succeed in business study it, practice it, and over time any reasonably smart person can become at least pretty good at it. One great thing about LiveCode is that it's so good at ad hoc solutions that there are so many ways it can contribute to a startup, in addition to being the foundation for the startup's product. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From lyn.teyla at gmail.com Wed Aug 19 18:12:53 2015 From: lyn.teyla at gmail.com (Lyn Teyla) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 00:12:53 +0200 Subject: libCurl wrapper using LiveCode Builder [was: Re: SFTP support] In-Reply-To: <86db9be42ac94a18126b8a382b74f0e6@livecode.com> References: <"> <4417607974232833140@unknownmsgid> <"> <55D294C5.6020605@hyperactivesw.com> <55D29FC3.4090704@hindu.org> <55D2BCB8.3070501@hyperactivesw.com> <55D398B5.40308@hindu.org> <32c0141eb08b86f4e0804cc123731539@livecode.com> <5946687A-54B2-4063-906C-5491250DC612@gmail.com> <722fa674864ddfce0a163ef594402d13@livecode.com> <66070424-A400-4124-AE9F-5A75908CBEAF@gmail.com> <86db9be42ac94a18126b8a382b74f0e6@livecode.com> Message-ID: <64ACC14D-140A-49B0-8A87-A02E54D7FEDB@gmail.com> Peter TB Brett wrote: > On 2015-08-19 21:53, Lyn Teyla wrote: > >> If a libCurl wrapper using LCB is in development, wouldn't the above >> be a non-issue? That is, adding SFTP (or any other libCurl-supported >> protocol) shouldn't need to involve writing and testing a lot of new, >> security-critical code, since libCurl has already taken care of that? >> Or am I missing something? > > It's not "in development". I started it (i.e. I wrote about 100 lines of code and opened a massive can of worms in the process). Then I stopped and found a different solution. Ah, didn't realize that. Thanks for the clarification. > There's a *lot* of research and development still to do before we can produce a generally-useful LCB URL library based on libcurl. That doesn't mean that we don't want to do it, or that we don't think it's worth doing! It *does* mean that, if we're talking about an internally-funded project, we're much more likely to be able to provide a Business-only SFTP extension than do a big refactor around LCB and libcurl. This is just the reality of the resources available. > > On the other hand, if there was external funding for such a project... But that's just it ? the network/sockets revamp using open language (presumably LCB) *is* one of the items on the roadmap from the Kickstarter campaign. While SFTP isn't specifically mentioned, that "generally-useful LCB URL library" is. Here's the roadmap again: https://livecode.com/resources/roadmap/ What I'm trying to say is that if you were to go the libCurl (or another similar ready-made library) route, then not only would you have the "generally-useful LCB URL library", but it'd then be much easier to add SFTP and other protocols via that same LCB library. Otherwise, you guys would be spending extra time unnecessarily reinventing the SFTP wheel, yet still only benefit Business license holders, whilst not meeting one of the goals on the roadmap upon implementation (pretty much a lose-lose-lose situation). You did just mention that it's a "big refactor around LCB and libCurl", so it sounds like a lot of work is going to be involved just to get an LCB URL library ready. I hadn't expected *that*, as my (possibly erroneous) impression during the fundraiser was that open language (LCB), once in place, would allow for the "easy wrapping" of just about any external library, since a revamp of the Database library via LCB is also listed on the roadmap. TL;DR: 1. Business-only SFTP = waste of precious time that could have been spent on other things 2. LCB URL library = good use of time that meets a goal for something that *has* been funded! I suppose what it comes down to is that you might have mistaken the LCB URL library to be an internally-funded project, when it's actually an externally funded one. Hope this makes sense. :) Lyn From brahma at hindu.org Wed Aug 19 18:29:31 2015 From: brahma at hindu.org (Brahmanathaswami) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 12:29:31 -1000 Subject: STACKLE - RSRC for LC Stacks - Are U Interested? In-Reply-To: References: <55D4D87E.7090706@hindu.org> Message-ID: <55D5034B.2090207@hindu.org> Actually this app is pretty much already built.. I just have to change a small amt of code in an existing tool. @ Peter I will take a look at subversion... -- Swasti Astu, Be Well! Brahmanathaswami Kauai's Hindu Monastery www.HimalayanAcademy.com Monte Goulding wrote: >> On 20 Aug 2015, at 5:26 am, Brahmanathaswami wrote: >> > >> > 1) the VCS discussion is for super brains; even if realized may involve a level (GIT) of system management overhead/learning curve that developers focused on actual content production -- don't need, have time for, nor want to "go there." > > Hmm? maybe although I strongly suspect that if you spent the amount of time you are prepared to spend building a custom version control system in LC learning about git you would end up knowing intricacies about git that even Linus has forgotten... From feed at smpcsupport.com Wed Aug 19 18:32:30 2015 From: feed at smpcsupport.com (RunRevPlanet) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 08:32:30 +1000 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card Message-ID: <1440023550.55d503fee606d@www.server101.com> Richmond said: > Of course this is all about taste (meaning > it's all in the mouth) so it would seem best, > if an all-in-one IDE like the VB6 one is to > be introduced to have it as one of 2 options. Single vs multi window does not matter as long as the editor is up to scratch and I can view different panes/windows simultaneously and use the keyboard to switch focus between them. Ali Lloyd said: > As far as I'm concerned these have all > been strict prerequisites for any > genuine progress on modernisation and > usability improvements of the IDE. Thank you for the update on progress and reasons for the delay. When you outline all the reasons, the delay is understandable. The problem, as I see it, is that until a better IDE is released the new user just sees a poorly executed environment without basic features. The new user does not know about the cool technology being worked on behind the scenes. The current approach sounds so ambitious I worry. It unfortunately reminds me of a Joel Spolsky post "Things You Should Never Do, Part I" I read many years ago. http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000069.html But not knowing how much more work the LiveCode team needs to do, I will wait patiently and hope my 2017 prediction is just pessimistic nonsense. -- Scott McDonald "Components, Controls, Tools and Resources for LiveCode" www.runrevplanet.com From brahma at hindu.org Wed Aug 19 18:41:51 2015 From: brahma at hindu.org (Brahmanathaswami) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 12:41:51 -1000 Subject: SFTP support [was: Re: Distribute beta versions of iOS app] In-Reply-To: <32c0141eb08b86f4e0804cc123731539@livecode.com> References: " <4417607974232833140@unknownmsgid>" <55D294C5.6020605@hyperactivesw.com> <55D29FC3.4090704@hindu.org> <55D2BCB8.3070501@hyperactivesw.com> <55D398B5.40308@hindu.org> <32c0141eb08b86f4e0804cc123731539@livecode.com> Message-ID: <55D5062F.3060001@hindu.org> In line: > The regular requests for SFTP support are noted and SFTP support is on > our internal list of feature requests -- indeed, I was recently > discussing it with Mark Waddingham. However, it will be a large > project that will involve writing and thoroughly testing a lot of new, > security-critical code. When we have the resources available to > implement it, it will therefore very likely be introduced an extension > available to LiveCode Business customers. Hmmm, that's sad..As we mentioned before SFTP is "out of the box" for even little widgets that talk to servers, so not to make tha available to community... well, I just can't wrap my head around that. Lots of newbie users will be playing in the web dev world and sending and fetch files from servers is day two of "getting started with coding" But the teacher will say "Oh... forget Livecode because you can't talk to our server.) yes, "fiscally" it makes sense Feature A (not on the kickstarter list) requires more $ therefore: we need to roll this into a product that has a revenue stream. But... I do think *some* things should fall onto the open source side of the equation. > > In the meantime, you could work around the absence of SFTP support > (while maintaining server security) by creating an HTTPS web service > that allows uploads only by authenticated clients which provide a > valid API token. > > One thing I don't understand - please can you explain why you can't > just do your uploads by shelling out to the "scp" or "rsync" commands? Certainly can do that...in fact planning on it. Just need to get around to setting up SSH keys on all the different local machines here. From brahma at hindu.org Wed Aug 19 18:52:40 2015 From: brahma at hindu.org (Brahmanathaswami) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 12:52:40 -1000 Subject: STACKLE - RSRC for LC Stacks - Are U Interested? In-Reply-To: <4a0c96265972f120d80378cccac537f4@livecode.com> References: <55D4D87E.7090706@hindu.org> <4a0c96265972f120d80378cccac537f4@livecode.com> Message-ID: <55D508B8.6090403@hindu.org> Good call: and for a small bit of coin...there's this: http://www.versionsapp.com/ Swasti Astu, Be Well! Brahmanathaswami Kauai's Hindu Monastery www.HimalayanAcademy.com Peter TB Brett wrote: > > Subversion does everything you've described already, better (including > the file locking aspects). And it has an HTTPS interface, so you > could write a client in LiveCode that uses libUrl to communicate with > a Subversion server. > > Peter > > -- > Dr Peter Brett From james at thehales.id.au Wed Aug 19 20:36:14 2015 From: james at thehales.id.au (James Hale) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 10:36:14 +1000 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card Message-ID: <3D3B4A07-E70B-448F-8AFF-045000B871D6@thehales.id.au> Ah memories indeed. Prograph still exists (and works on current OSX) albeit as a project of love. http://www.andescotia.com/products/marten/ As for Metropolis, unfortunately not. Bought and killed. James From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Wed Aug 19 22:04:46 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 19:04:46 -0700 Subject: [OT] Linux 32-bit to 64-bit In-Reply-To: <4f11939e57107ed0773a71b117cc2e2e@livecode.com> References: <55D4D05B.7060103@gmail.com> <4f11939e57107ed0773a71b117cc2e2e@livecode.com> Message-ID: <55D535BE.30805@ahsoftware.net> On 08/19/2015 11:59 AM, Peter TB Brett wrote: > On 2015-08-19 20:52, Richmond wrote: >> Can this be done? Peter beat me to the answer. > Yes, I did exactly this a few years ago (in fact, I think I went 32-bit, > to 64-bit, to 32-bit, and back to 64-bit, bringing my /home all the way). That's pretty scary. I don't think I'm brave/stupid enough to try that. > P.S. I recommend making good backups first, of course. But I'm sure you > already have them. :-) IIRC Richmond has /home in a separate partition already, so this should be Mostly Harmless. But to be safe I'd make sure to have a backup of the /home, /etc, and /opt directories because I'm paranoid. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Wed Aug 19 22:06:37 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2015 19:06:37 -0700 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: <69C2F438-0897-413F-AAE1-6180F5568708@madmansoft.com> References: <55D41281.6090501@fourthworld.com> <69C2F438-0897-413F-AAE1-6180F5568708@madmansoft.com> Message-ID: <55D5362D.9030200@ahsoftware.net> On 08/19/2015 11:17 AM, Stephen MacLean wrote: > Wow, that is a flash back! Indeed. I believe I still have a Prograph CD around somewhere because I just couldn't bear to part with it. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From peter.brett at livecode.com Thu Aug 20 00:48:22 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 06:48:22 +0200 Subject: libCurl wrapper using LiveCode Builder [was: Re: SFTP support] In-Reply-To: <64ACC14D-140A-49B0-8A87-A02E54D7FEDB@gmail.com> References: <"> <4417607974232833140@unknownmsgid> <"> <55D294C5.6020605@hyperactivesw.com> <55D29FC3.4090704@hindu.org> <55D2BCB8.3070501@hyperactivesw.com> <55D398B5.40308@hindu.org> <32c0141eb08b86f4e0804cc123731539@livecode.com> <5946687A-54B2-4063-906C-5491250DC612@gmail.com> <722fa674864ddfce0a163ef594402d13@livecode.com> <66070424-A400-4124-AE9F-5A75908CBEAF@gmail.com> <86db9be42ac94a18126b8a382b74f0e6@livecode.com> <64ACC14D-140A-49B0-8A87-A02E54D7FEDB@gmail.com> Message-ID: <9802d744d112dc4871873c7960df02e3@livecode.com> On 2015-08-20 00:12, Lyn Teyla wrote: > > But that's just it ? the network/sockets revamp using open language > (presumably LCB) *is* one of the items on the roadmap from the > Kickstarter campaign. While SFTP isn't specifically mentioned, that > "generally-useful LCB URL library" is. Here's the roadmap again: > > https://livecode.com/resources/roadmap/ > > [snip] > > I hadn't expected *that*, as my (possibly erroneous) impression during > the fundraiser was that open language (LCB), once in place, would > allow for the "easy wrapping" of just about any external library, > since a revamp of the Database library via LCB is also listed on the > roadmap. We're aiming to publish an updated roadmap for the remaining Kickstarter stretch goals soon. Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Engine Development Team From monte at sweattechnologies.com Thu Aug 20 02:05:23 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 16:05:23 +1000 Subject: Business Application Framework In-Reply-To: References: <55CBB1F6.8020405@fourthworld.com> <42b03c3c9805dc2379d282cefaed3883@livecode.com> <0774e7c8f4d31e53a4cf090434eb37a5@livecode.com> <80CD8DB6-1D5A-483A-A75E-BAD029505D37@sweattechnologies.com> <980026A3-93D2-4CA9-9E55-75D0D658EE45@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <5063679E-5352-46FA-966A-A15085DFBE05@sweattechnologies.com> > On 13 Aug 2015, at 9:09 pm, Mark Waddingham wrote: > > That's very true. Indeed, perhaps one could argue that GitHub needs service-hooks which allow customization of merging and diff display. That general feature there would solve the VCS problem in a natural way for a number of types of data which are needed in modern software projects. > > I suspect it will come in time as, to be fair, the integration abilities have increased a fair bit since we started using it in 2013; and we've used them quite extensively in our Vulcan (CI / Build System) integration so that information about PRs appear directly on the relevant PRs (and shout at you when you've made a mistake!). Hi Mark On this topic I was just poking around on bitbucket today and found bitbucket?s new connect platform. We could use this perhaps combined with LC html or just our own prettified views of a stackdir to do what we need for online code/UI review although I think it would require a server that maintained a clone of any repo that used the addon. https://developer.atlassian.com/static/bitbucket/guides/introduction.html Hopefully GitHub and other hosts will also roll out a similar feature. I?d be surprised if they didn?t because it looks pretty handy for integrating with all sorts of things. I still think it?s probably easier to handle code review locally but it might be worth considering if the goal is trying to make LiveCode integrate with standard developer tools rather than just getting it to work with DVCS. Cheers Monte From ali at runrev.com Thu Aug 20 03:25:00 2015 From: ali at runrev.com (Ali Lloyd) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 07:25:00 +0000 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: <1440023550.55d503fee606d@www.server101.com> References: <1440023550.55d503fee606d@www.server101.com> Message-ID: > > > Thank you for the update on progress and reasons for the delay. > > When you outline all the reasons, the delay is understandable. > > The problem, as I see it, is that until a better IDE is released the new > user > just sees a poorly executed environment without basic features. The new > user > does not know about the cool technology being worked on behind the scenes. > > The current approach sounds so ambitious I worry. It unfortunately reminds > me of > a Joel Spolsky post "Things You Should Never Do, Part I" I read many years > ago. > > http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000069.html > > But not knowing how much more work the LiveCode team needs to do, I will > wait > patiently and hope my 2017 prediction is just pessimistic nonsense. > I doubt we will be writing a whole new script editor from scratch in one go. More likely we will replace individual elements with widgets (as has been done with the variables pane) to make sure all the components work as expected. From lyn.teyla at gmail.com Thu Aug 20 06:11:08 2015 From: lyn.teyla at gmail.com (Lyn Teyla) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 12:11:08 +0200 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: References: <1440023550.55d503fee606d@www.server101.com> Message-ID: Ali Lloyd wrote: > I doubt we will be writing a whole new script editor from scratch in one > go. More likely we will replace individual elements with widgets (as has > been done with the variables pane) to make sure all the components work as > expected. Assuming one of the elements to be replaced with widgets is the field control used to display code in the script editor, will it result in the following long-standing scrolling issue (opened since March 2008) being resolved? http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=6286 Scrolling a fixed number of pixels at a time (rather than pixel-by-pixel + delta parameter based on scrolling speed) might seem to some to be a seemingly insignificant issue that could result in it being assigned a low priority. Unfortunately, it causes a very noticeable effect that makes the LiveCode IDE and standalone apps look less polished and native-like than modern apps. Fixing the scrolling issue would greatly improve the scrolling experience within the script editor, the IDE, and standalone apps. More people impressed by the LiveCode environment and its apps = more $$$ for LiveCode Ltd. :) It's even possible that the code required to fix this already exists elsewhere within the engine (see comment 5 on that page). Lyn From ali at runrev.com Thu Aug 20 06:27:10 2015 From: ali at runrev.com (Ali Lloyd) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 10:27:10 +0000 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: References: <1440023550.55d503fee606d@www.server101.com> Message-ID: > > > Assuming one of the elements to be replaced with widgets is the field > control used to display code in the script editor, will it result in the > following long-standing scrolling issue (opened since March 2008) being > resolved? > > http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=6286 > > Scrolling a fixed number of pixels at a time (rather than pixel-by-pixel + > delta parameter based on scrolling speed) might seem to some to be a > seemingly insignificant issue that could result in it being assigned a low > priority. > > Unfortunately, it causes a very noticeable effect that makes the LiveCode > IDE and standalone apps look less polished and native-like than modern apps. > > Fixing the scrolling issue would greatly improve the scrolling experience > within the script editor, the IDE, and standalone apps. > > More people impressed by the LiveCode environment and its apps = more $$$ > for LiveCode Ltd. :) > > It's even possible that the code required to fix this already exists > elsewhere within the engine (see comment 5 on that page). > > Lyn > > Hopefully. The slightly longer answer is that there will almost certainly be something like a scrolling view widget, which will be used for all scrollable elements of the IDE. (The tree view widget is using an early version of this code, check out the variable viewer or custom properties in 8.0 dp 2 for its scrolling behavior). From tfabacher at gmail.com Thu Aug 20 07:10:17 2015 From: tfabacher at gmail.com (Todd Fabacher) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 07:10:17 -0400 Subject: What is this - is anyone making money? Message-ID: > As many of us I have paid for the licenses, put money out for free > development expecting some wanted features, continued for Indie > advancement payments (hope to live beyond the licenses expire), > I have to ask my colleague developers, are you making any money with > the apps you develop (with LC)? Or is it just fun? This is the question that is on the lips of so many developers I meet in the LiveCode community in the last year since I have started to use LC as a development tool. The real critical problem is many expect LC to be a genie in a bottle and grant you three profitable apps. Mostly, it is lack of experience that has created this illusion. The lack of profitability is more related to a void in understanding how to develop profitable business apps vs. LiveCode. I have been working with dozens of developers from the class to help them on their journey. But that is a small amount of the 500+ who are taking the class. Many do indeed purchase LiveCode like they do language software and thing the will learn to speak French simply by osmosis. At DP have been like elfs, quietly toiling away for a year, but are about to launch 5 very profitable Apps in addition to the 16 Apps [we still have 4 to go] that we helped LiveCode with for the "Create It With LiveCode" class. Granted I have more resources than most, but here is what we have done in a year: *UBook24-7*: A management App + online scheduling website which allows people to book appointments online, and the owner uses the App to manage the business. The main focus is barber, hair salon, sports instructors and personal trainers. Price $229 / year including a website and hosting. *Express Event*: A management App + online eCommerce website for Events and conferences. It provides a complete solution including event ticket sales, speaker management , class registration, multi-locations for event "Tours" and lots more. We also have an option for the event to have their own App. Price $299 / year including a website and hosting. Plus another one time fee of $299 if you want an event App. *Build a Tour App*: A management App + online website + Custom App Tour App designed by them for self guided Tours. We are in Full beta with cities, universities, a wine area in NZ and a cruise line. A desktop app allows them to manage and design their tour app [text, images, audio, video and languages]. We take their data and match it agains a pre-build LC App template, charge them $499 for the App and $29/ month for a website that promotes the App and acts as a central server to update the app data and advertising on an ongoing basis. *MenuMania*: A management App + online website + Custom Menu App designed by them with the desktop management app. For many hotels, restaurants, airports or other places where language and speed are an issue, we have developed a simple "menu maker". So instead of giving them a menu, a tablet is provided or is attached to the table. You see this in many airports now, but will begin to move to all food services. You can order and pay on the device and the food comes right out. Several New York restaurants are interested more in using this as a wine list as it can make suggestions based on the menu, and will provide a more information on the winery which people are always interested in. We have just started connecting with the Culinary Institute of America to try and make this not just about fast food. $499 for the App and $29/ month for a web server. Also we are looking into a kitchen management system to go with it, but that is 2016. *PlayLand Armenia*: The team in Armenia what to do this, so I said OK. No it is not profitable and in actuality I am loosing money on it, but it was a great team builder and help teach some critical skills. It is an app where Armenian kids 5-10 around the world can play online games together, become friends and learn Armenian. This was the teams contribution for the memory of the 100 year Genocide. So rather focus on the negative, they provide a way for the Armenian kids around the world to still feel connected. *3 large Contact Apps*: We are doing 3 apps on a contact basis. These have helped us learn new technology and provided the revenue to teach new people LiveCode. So my point is, I could do these in any language, but LiveCode allows me several critical advantages. Multi-platform, ease of use so I can hire and train people who have never even coded before and get them up to speed in 4-6 months, seamless connection between the app and LC web server using revIgniter and a great interface with WordPress which we use as the website for many of the web portion of the apps. I hope this answers your question. --Todd From kaveh at rivervalleytechnologies.com Thu Aug 20 07:20:51 2015 From: kaveh at rivervalleytechnologies.com (Kaveh Bazargan) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 16:50:51 +0530 Subject: What is this - is anyone making money? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Wow, and here I was thinking you just do "lorem ipsum": http://digitalpomegranate.com/about/ ;-) On 20 August 2015 at 16:40, Todd Fabacher wrote: > > As many of us I have paid for the licenses, put money out for free > > development expecting some wanted features, continued for Indie > > advancement payments (hope to live beyond the licenses expire), > > I have to ask my colleague developers, are you making any money with > > the apps you develop (with LC)? Or is it just fun? > > > This is the question that is on the lips of so many developers I meet in > the LiveCode community in the last year since I have started to use LC as a > development tool. The real critical problem is many expect LC to be a genie > in a bottle and grant you three profitable apps. > > Mostly, it is lack of experience that has created this illusion. The lack > of profitability is more related to a void in understanding how to develop > profitable business apps vs. LiveCode. I have been working with dozens of > developers from the class to help them on their journey. But that is a > small amount of the 500+ who are taking the class. Many do indeed purchase > LiveCode like they do language software and thing the will learn to speak > French simply by osmosis. > > At DP have been like elfs, quietly toiling away for a year, but are about > to launch 5 very profitable Apps in addition to the 16 Apps [we still have > 4 to go] that we helped LiveCode with for the "Create It With LiveCode" > class. Granted I have more resources than most, but here is what we have > done in a year: > > *UBook24-7*: A management App + online scheduling website which allows > people to book appointments online, and the owner uses the App to manage > the business. The main focus is barber, hair salon, sports instructors and > personal trainers. Price $229 / year including a website and hosting. > > *Express Event*: A management App + online eCommerce website for Events and > conferences. It provides a complete solution including event ticket sales, > speaker management , class registration, multi-locations for event "Tours" > and lots more. We also have an option for the event to have their own App. > Price $299 / year including a website and hosting. Plus another one time > fee of $299 if you want an event App. > > *Build a Tour App*: A management App + online website + Custom App Tour App > designed by them for self guided Tours. We are in Full beta with cities, > universities, a wine area in NZ and a cruise line. A desktop app allows > them to manage and design their tour app [text, images, audio, video and > languages]. We take their data and match it agains a pre-build LC App > template, charge them $499 for the App and $29/ month for a website that > promotes the App and acts as a central server to update the app data and > advertising on an ongoing basis. > > *MenuMania*: A management App + online website + Custom Menu App designed > by them with the desktop management app. For many hotels, restaurants, > airports or other places where language and speed are an issue, we have > developed a simple "menu maker". So instead of giving them a menu, a tablet > is provided or is attached to the table. You see this in many airports now, > but will begin to move to all food services. You can order and pay on the > device and the food comes right out. Several New York restaurants are > interested more in using this as a wine list as it can make suggestions > based on the menu, and will provide a more information on the winery which > people are always interested in. We have just started connecting with > the Culinary Institute of America to try and make this not just about fast > food. $499 for the App and $29/ month for a web server. Also we are looking > into a kitchen management system to go with it, but that is 2016. > > *PlayLand Armenia*: The team in Armenia what to do this, so I said OK. No > it is not profitable and in actuality I am loosing money on it, but it was > a great team builder and help teach some critical skills. It is an app > where Armenian kids 5-10 around the world can play online games together, > become friends and learn Armenian. This was the teams contribution for the > memory of the 100 year Genocide. So rather focus on the negative, they > provide a way for the Armenian kids around the world to still feel > connected. > > *3 large Contact Apps*: We are doing 3 apps on a contact basis. These have > helped us learn new technology and provided the revenue to teach new people > LiveCode. > > So my point is, I could do these in any language, but LiveCode allows me > several critical advantages. Multi-platform, ease of use so I can hire and > train people who have never even coded before and get them up to speed in > 4-6 months, seamless connection between the app and LC web server using > revIgniter and a great interface with WordPress which we use as the website > for many of the web portion of the apps. > > I hope this answers your question. > > --Todd > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Kaveh Bazargan Director River Valley Technologies @kaveh1000 +44 7771 824 111 www.rivervalleytechnologies.com www.bazargan.org From iowahengst at mac.com Thu Aug 20 10:14:18 2015 From: iowahengst at mac.com (Randy Hengst) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 09:14:18 -0500 Subject: What is this - is anyone making money? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I am not a programmer in the vein of Todd, Richard, Simon or many others on this list? I?m a ?scripter.? I like LiveCode because I can easily create the simple things I do and develop them quickly. My target audience is elementary schools and children (so, ages 5-12). I?m a prof in a small liberal arts school (in the US, Rock Island, Illinois) where I work with elementary education majors. Our majors use the apps in their field experiences with elementary students and make suggestions for apps that I create or the make suggestions to modify the existing apps I?ve already written.. It?s cool when they can make a suggestion and I can get a version out to them within a week or two for them try with ?real? students. That way our majors are developing a true sense of what makes a ?good? app and begin getting a sense of how apps are made. I?ve been making ?apps? since HyperCard and moved to HyperStudio for manny years because of its scripting and cross-platform capabilities. Now I only develop in LiveCode and have 33 apps on the iOS app store. All are ?utilitarian? in nature? none will win a design award? much of the art is made within LiveCode. The coolest art I have is my logo (thanks to the talents of Scott Rossi). Given the focus of my app development I don?t have to worry about making money? I do need some income to defray expenses since we are not receiving any form of grant money for this project. I?ve had over 1.5 million app downloads? only 3% are paid apps? schools, as you can image, like ?free.? I have no doubt that if my apps were all paid (99?) that I would have far fewer downloads? maybe a total of 100,000. One thing I really like about the list (and the forums) is listening to the folks who talk so far over my head that I can get a sense of what is possible even when I don?t understand how to get there. be well, randy Randy Hengst www.classroomFocusedSoftware.com > On Aug 20, 2015, at 6:10 AM, Todd Fabacher wrote: > >> As many of us I have paid for the licenses, put money out for free >> development expecting some wanted features, continued for Indie >> advancement payments (hope to live beyond the licenses expire), >> I have to ask my colleague developers, are you making any money with >> the apps you develop (with LC)? Or is it just fun? > > > This is the question that is on the lips of so many developers I meet in > the LiveCode community in the last year since I have started to use LC as a > development tool. The real critical problem is many expect LC to be a genie > in a bottle and grant you three profitable apps. > > Mostly, it is lack of experience that has created this illusion. The lack > of profitability is more related to a void in understanding how to develop > profitable business apps vs. LiveCode. I have been working with dozens of > developers from the class to help them on their journey. But that is a > small amount of the 500+ who are taking the class. Many do indeed purchase > LiveCode like they do language software and thing the will learn to speak > French simply by osmosis. > > At DP have been like elfs, quietly toiling away for a year, but are about > to launch 5 very profitable Apps in addition to the 16 Apps [we still have > 4 to go] that we helped LiveCode with for the "Create It With LiveCode" > class. Granted I have more resources than most, but here is what we have > done in a year: > > *UBook24-7*: A management App + online scheduling website which allows > people to book appointments online, and the owner uses the App to manage > the business. The main focus is barber, hair salon, sports instructors and > personal trainers. Price $229 / year including a website and hosting. > > *Express Event*: A management App + online eCommerce website for Events and > conferences. It provides a complete solution including event ticket sales, > speaker management , class registration, multi-locations for event "Tours" > and lots more. We also have an option for the event to have their own App. > Price $299 / year including a website and hosting. Plus another one time > fee of $299 if you want an event App. > > *Build a Tour App*: A management App + online website + Custom App Tour App > designed by them for self guided Tours. We are in Full beta with cities, > universities, a wine area in NZ and a cruise line. A desktop app allows > them to manage and design their tour app [text, images, audio, video and > languages]. We take their data and match it agains a pre-build LC App > template, charge them $499 for the App and $29/ month for a website that > promotes the App and acts as a central server to update the app data and > advertising on an ongoing basis. > > *MenuMania*: A management App + online website + Custom Menu App designed > by them with the desktop management app. For many hotels, restaurants, > airports or other places where language and speed are an issue, we have > developed a simple "menu maker". So instead of giving them a menu, a tablet > is provided or is attached to the table. You see this in many airports now, > but will begin to move to all food services. You can order and pay on the > device and the food comes right out. Several New York restaurants are > interested more in using this as a wine list as it can make suggestions > based on the menu, and will provide a more information on the winery which > people are always interested in. We have just started connecting with > the Culinary Institute of America to try and make this not just about fast > food. $499 for the App and $29/ month for a web server. Also we are looking > into a kitchen management system to go with it, but that is 2016. > > *PlayLand Armenia*: The team in Armenia what to do this, so I said OK. No > it is not profitable and in actuality I am loosing money on it, but it was > a great team builder and help teach some critical skills. It is an app > where Armenian kids 5-10 around the world can play online games together, > become friends and learn Armenian. This was the teams contribution for the > memory of the 100 year Genocide. So rather focus on the negative, they > provide a way for the Armenian kids around the world to still feel > connected. > > *3 large Contact Apps*: We are doing 3 apps on a contact basis. These have > helped us learn new technology and provided the revenue to teach new people > LiveCode. > > So my point is, I could do these in any language, but LiveCode allows me > several critical advantages. Multi-platform, ease of use so I can hire and > train people who have never even coded before and get them up to speed in > 4-6 months, seamless connection between the app and LC web server using > revIgniter and a great interface with WordPress which we use as the website > for many of the web portion of the apps. > > I hope this answers your question. > > --Todd > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From lfredricks at proactive-intl.com Thu Aug 20 11:28:46 2015 From: lfredricks at proactive-intl.com (Lynn Fredricks) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 08:28:46 -0700 Subject: [OT] Copyrighting games? In-Reply-To: <55D4D364.4080304@economy-x-talk.com> References: <55D4AE0E.30401@gmail.com><617fd5e48dcf3f46592c7936a64999a0@livecode.com><55D4B3A4.4000700@gmail.com> <55D4D364.4080304@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: > Since nobody needs to pay money to "copyright" a work, or in > fact nobody NEEDS to "copyright" a work, because it already > is copyrighted, I'd say this website is merely a way to lose > some money. You can always do nothing. Registration provides additional benefits though. You can find the equivalent on a lot of sites but this article is short and clear about the benefits of registration: http://www.ohiostartuplaw.com/top-5-benefits-of-copyright-registration/ The NOLO legal guides are pretty good for lightweight legal stuff. Best regards, Lynn Fredricks Paradigma Software http://www.paradigmasoft.com Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Thu Aug 20 11:30:13 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 18:30:13 +0300 Subject: What is this - is anyone making money? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55D5F285.7090808@gmail.com> On 20/08/15 14:10, Todd Fabacher wrote: > > As many of us I have paid for the licenses, put money out for free > > development expecting some wanted features, continued for Indie > > advancement payments (hope to live beyond the licenses expire), > > I have to ask my colleague developers, are you making any money with > > the apps you develop (with LC)? Or is it just fun? > > > A bad workman blames his tools. LiveCode provides a fantastic toolbox: what you do with it is your problem. LiveCode are not going to build cupboards, put up shelves, or cook your dinner anymore than you would expect a drill, a saw, a screwdriver and a cooking pot. Richmond. From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Aug 20 11:49:04 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 08:49:04 -0700 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55D5F6F0.2060503@fourthworld.com> Ali Lloyd wrote: > I doubt we will be writing a whole new script editor from scratch in one > go. Wise, for all the reasons Joel talks about here (good link, Scott): > More likely we will replace individual elements with widgets (as has > been done with the variables pane) to make sure all the components work as > expected. LiveCode 8's Builder language will be an exciting addition to the platform, at long last allowing the dev team to enjoy the same benefit the rest of us choose LiveCode for: not having to work in C++, able to use a high-level scripting language for much greater productivity. With the IDE things are even better: it's already written in a high-level scripting language. Why not use LiveCode Script? If we can't build a good text editor in LiveCode, what are any of us doing here? Fortunately we can. Indeed LiveCode is an excellent tool to build such things with, as it is right now. LiveCode Builder is a great alternative to C++, but there's no true need to replace LiveCode Script elements with new LiveCode Builder implementations. Doing so merely overloads the already-laden v8 dev cycle, and worse it prevents backporting solutions to the product that is currently the company's sole source of revenue, v7. Conversely, everything written for v7 goes along for the ride seamlessly to v8, the clearly winning option for things already in script. The ROI of writing things in LC Builder that might otherwise have required C++ is unquestionable. And similarly unquestionable is the benefit of using the current scripting language for things already written in the current scripting language. Somewhere down the road there might be a reason to rewrite those, but right now the downsides seem so clearly outweighing the upsides on every level, from technical to revenue to marketing (do we really intend to convey the message that LiveCode can't be used to build a text editor?), it would seem optimal to just dive in an optimize what we have. This thread began with a sober realization of the difficulty of estimation vs. actual delivery times. I'm a programmer too, so I appreciate the seductive attraction of greenfield projects; no one like working in other people's code. But most programming is exactly that, and as Joel points out it's extremely rare that a working system can benefit from a complete rewrite, when all that's needed are some optimizations and a very small number of new and rather discrete features. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From kevin at livecode.com Thu Aug 20 13:29:01 2015 From: kevin at livecode.com (Kevin Miller) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 18:29:01 +0100 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: <55D5F6F0.2060503@fourthworld.com> References: <55D5F6F0.2060503@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: I think this is a really important principal. Always use the highest level language you can for any given project. Offering that very high level language option is a big part of LiveCode's reason for being. Previously our primary choices were between LiveCode Script and a lower level language such as C. Now we have a third choice, an intermediate LiveCode Builder. Its much faster than C but slower than Script. It is going to excel at certain tasks. However we should always choose to use it only when it offers clear advantages above LiveCode Script for the project that outweigh the extra level of effort needed to use it. I know its very tempting having added a whole new language to build everything in that, but we must carefully resist that temptation and use it judiciously, only for what it is best at. That pragmatic point out of the way, I haven?t dug into the ins and outs of the Script Editor since LCB originated to know what the arguments are on either side. So I?m not saying I know the right answer here. I know the tech team have done some more work looking on that but I haven?t seen any definite conclusions from that effort as yet as we have other priorities in getting the first version of 8.0 out the door just now. Kind regards, Kevin Kevin Miller ~ kevin at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps On 20/08/2015 16:49, "Richard Gaskin" wrote: >Ali Lloyd wrote: >> I doubt we will be writing a whole new script editor from scratch in one >> go. > >Wise, for all the reasons Joel talks about here (good link, Scott): > > > >> More likely we will replace individual elements with widgets (as has >> been done with the variables pane) to make sure all the components work >>as >> expected. > >LiveCode 8's Builder language will be an exciting addition to the >platform, at long last allowing the dev team to enjoy the same benefit >the rest of us choose LiveCode for: not having to work in C++, able to >use a high-level scripting language for much greater productivity. > >With the IDE things are even better: it's already written in a >high-level scripting language. Why not use LiveCode Script? > >If we can't build a good text editor in LiveCode, what are any of us >doing here? > >Fortunately we can. Indeed LiveCode is an excellent tool to build such >things with, as it is right now. > >LiveCode Builder is a great alternative to C++, but there's no true need >to replace LiveCode Script elements with new LiveCode Builder >implementations. > >Doing so merely overloads the already-laden v8 dev cycle, and worse it >prevents backporting solutions to the product that is currently the >company's sole source of revenue, v7. Conversely, everything written >for v7 goes along for the ride seamlessly to v8, the clearly winning >option for things already in script. > >The ROI of writing things in LC Builder that might otherwise have >required C++ is unquestionable. And similarly unquestionable is the >benefit of using the current scripting language for things already >written in the current scripting language. > >Somewhere down the road there might be a reason to rewrite those, but >right now the downsides seem so clearly outweighing the upsides on every >level, from technical to revenue to marketing (do we really intend to >convey the message that LiveCode can't be used to build a text editor?), >it would seem optimal to just dive in an optimize what we have. > >This thread began with a sober realization of the difficulty of >estimation vs. actual delivery times. I'm a programmer too, so I >appreciate the seductive attraction of greenfield projects; no one like >working in other people's code. But most programming is exactly that, >and as Joel points out it's extremely rare that a working system can >benefit from a complete rewrite, when all that's needed are some >optimizations and a very small number of new and rather discrete features. > >-- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > >_______________________________________________ >use-livecode mailing list >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From colinholgate at gmail.com Thu Aug 20 13:32:27 2015 From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 13:32:27 -0400 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: References: <55D5F6F0.2060503@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <0F579EC8-2BF2-4A49-84D4-555DD3CDB453@gmail.com> I imagine you meant that it?s faster to program in, as opposed to faster performance. > On Aug 20, 2015, at 1:29 PM, Kevin Miller wrote: > > Now we have a third choice, an intermediate > LiveCode Builder. Its much faster than C but slower than Script. From kevin at runrev.com Thu Aug 20 13:35:52 2015 From: kevin at runrev.com (Kevin Miller) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 18:35:52 +0100 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: <0F579EC8-2BF2-4A49-84D4-555DD3CDB453@gmail.com> References: <55D5F6F0.2060503@fourthworld.com> <0F579EC8-2BF2-4A49-84D4-555DD3CDB453@gmail.com> Message-ID: Yes. I was talking about developer productivity. > On 20 Aug 2015, at 18:32, Colin Holgate wrote: > > I imagine you meant that it?s faster to program in, as opposed to faster performance. > > >> On Aug 20, 2015, at 1:29 PM, Kevin Miller wrote: >> >> Now we have a third choice, an intermediate >> LiveCode Builder. Its much faster than C but slower than Script. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Thu Aug 20 13:39:08 2015 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 13:39:08 -0400 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: References: <55D5F6F0.2060503@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 1:29 PM, Kevin Miller wrote: > I think this is a really important principal. Always use the highest level > language you can for any given project. Offering that very high level > language option is a big part of LiveCode's reason for being. > Or primary (if not sole) reason for being, right? If not for the ease of HyperCard, I would not be here today, using LC. > > Previously our primary choices were between LiveCode Script and a lower > level language such as C. Now we have a third choice, an intermediate > LiveCode Builder. Its much faster than C but slower than Script. It is > going to excel at certain tasks. However we should always choose to use it > only when it offers clear advantages above LiveCode Script for the project > that outweigh the extra level of effort needed to use it. I know its very > tempting having added a whole new language to build everything in that, > but we must carefully resist that temptation and use it judiciously, only > for what it is best at. > Will there be a list, or guide to help a LC script user to know when to use LCB? > > That pragmatic point out of the way, I haven?t dug into the ins and outs > of the Script Editor since LCB originated to know what the arguments are > on either side. So I?m not saying I know the right answer here. I know the > tech team have done some more work looking on that but I haven?t seen any > definite conclusions from that effort as yet as we have other priorities > in getting the first version of 8.0 out the door just now. > > Kind regards, > > Kevin > > Kevin Miller ~ kevin at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ > LiveCode: Everyone can create apps > Thanks. ~Roger From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Thu Aug 20 13:45:13 2015 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 13:45:13 -0400 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: References: <55D5F6F0.2060503@fourthworld.com> <0F579EC8-2BF2-4A49-84D4-555DD3CDB453@gmail.com> Message-ID: When I asked, "Will there be a list, or guide to help a LC script user to know when to use LCB?", I did not understand that you were talking about dev time -vs- cpu time per type of function. So, nevermind that question. Roger EllerGraphics Systems Analyst 803 North Maple StreetP: 864.967.1625Simpsonville, SC 29681C: 864.908.0337 SealedAir.com Roger.E.Eller at SealedAir.com On Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 1:35 PM, Kevin Miller wrote: > Yes. I was talking about developer productivity. > > > On 20 Aug 2015, at 18:32, Colin Holgate wrote: > > > > I imagine you meant that it?s faster to program in, as opposed to faster > performance. > > > > > >> On Aug 20, 2015, at 1:29 PM, Kevin Miller wrote: > >> > >> Now we have a third choice, an intermediate > >> LiveCode Builder. Its much faster than C but slower than Script. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From sundown at pacifier.com Thu Aug 20 13:51:03 2015 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 10:51:03 -0700 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: References: <55D5F6F0.2060503@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: One thing that would really help with developing in LCB would be to have some examples of C++ code and the same code showing how you write it using LCB. John Balgenorth On Aug 20, 2015, at 10:39 AM, Roger Eller wrote: > On Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 1:29 PM, Kevin Miller wrote: > >> I think this is a really important principal. Always use the highest level >> language you can for any given project. Offering that very high level >> language option is a big part of LiveCode's reason for being. >> > > Or primary (if not sole) reason for being, right? If not for the ease of > HyperCard, I would not be here today, using LC. > > >> >> Previously our primary choices were between LiveCode Script and a lower >> level language such as C. Now we have a third choice, an intermediate >> LiveCode Builder. Its much faster than C but slower than Script. It is >> going to excel at certain tasks. However we should always choose to use it >> only when it offers clear advantages above LiveCode Script for the project >> that outweigh the extra level of effort needed to use it. I know its very >> tempting having added a whole new language to build everything in that, >> but we must carefully resist that temptation and use it judiciously, only >> for what it is best at. >> > > Will there be a list, or guide to help a LC script user to know when to use > LCB? > > >> >> That pragmatic point out of the way, I haven?t dug into the ins and outs >> of the Script Editor since LCB originated to know what the arguments are >> on either side. So I?m not saying I know the right answer here. I know the >> tech team have done some more work looking on that but I haven?t seen any >> definite conclusions from that effort as yet as we have other priorities >> in getting the first version of 8.0 out the door just now. >> >> Kind regards, >> >> Kevin >> >> Kevin Miller ~ kevin at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ >> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps >> > > Thanks. > ~Roger > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From userev at canelasoftware.com Thu Aug 20 14:14:10 2015 From: userev at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 11:14:10 -0700 Subject: What is this - is anyone making money? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > On Aug 19, 2015, at 12:46 PM, Pyyhti? Christer wrote: > > Another question is where is the beef for the different apps. Games, plays - but does anything serious drive apps in iOS world. What about Android, is there a different worlds of users? Finally, is everything just games and plays, is there any interest for value applications, which is not 'just here and now'? What's there for serious app development, is everything just what is the click for just now, just today? LiveCode used to have a list of apps on their website. I can not find it right now. Maybe they have been taken down while the site is getting another facelift. My take is that you can make money with any software development tool out there. You just need to know what needs to be made and how to get the word out. LiveCode brings the element of speed to the table. Coding in LiveCode is very fast and easy. Deploying to all the key platforms is also simple. Business sense is something that does not come out of the box. It is something that you cultivate like a garden. You have to know when a project you want to work on is not going to generate income. Developers must do their homework before even writing a single line of code. If you are new to development, or your business is not jumping like you expected it to, this is a good place to bring it up. If shyness is a factor, then talk with people you trust that have made it in the business. A little guidance goes a long way. My company, Canela Software, has been using LiveCode since the beginning. We started with MetaCard before that. We have designed software for the education field which generated income around $40k year. We transitioned to vision testing software that generate millions of dollars a year. Our current project, electronic medical records, is expected to generate 10+ times even more in income. It pivots off our vision testing system. Hint: pivoting off a strong platform is a good business decision since you can utilize existing sales channels, customer contacts, and capitalize on your core knowledge of a given field. And, similar to how Amazon released its backend tech to the world, we plan to make ours available to the LiveCode community. This may not be the strongest business decision we have made, but if it helps others to achieve their goals, that will make me happy too. I am friends with other developers in this community that have not spoken up about their success in using LiveCode. Many of them are making a very good living by making good business decisions and choosing LiveCode as their tool of choice. Hopefully this information is helpful to those considering using LiveCode. Best regards, Mark Talluto canelasoftware.com CassiaDB: The easy to use, free local storage database made for LiveCode Developers: livecloud.io From kevin at livecode.com Thu Aug 20 14:27:16 2015 From: kevin at livecode.com (Kevin Miller) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 19:27:16 +0100 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: References: <55D5F6F0.2060503@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: There is documentation up in the DP of 8 that is out there. We will be having a Global Jam shortly so everyone can get together to learn how to create Widgets. Stay tuned for more details. Kind regards, Kevin Kevin Miller ~ kevin at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps On 20/08/2015 18:51, "JB" wrote: >One thing that would really help with >developing in LCB would be to have >some examples of C++ code and the >same code showing how you write it >using LCB. > >John Balgenorth > > >On Aug 20, 2015, at 10:39 AM, Roger Eller >wrote: > >> On Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 1:29 PM, Kevin Miller >>wrote: >> >>> I think this is a really important principal. Always use the highest >>>level >>> language you can for any given project. Offering that very high level >>> language option is a big part of LiveCode's reason for being. >>> >> >> Or primary (if not sole) reason for being, right? If not for the ease >>of >> HyperCard, I would not be here today, using LC. >> >> >>> >>> Previously our primary choices were between LiveCode Script and a lower >>> level language such as C. Now we have a third choice, an intermediate >>> LiveCode Builder. Its much faster than C but slower than Script. It is >>> going to excel at certain tasks. However we should always choose to >>>use it >>> only when it offers clear advantages above LiveCode Script for the >>>project >>> that outweigh the extra level of effort needed to use it. I know its >>>very >>> tempting having added a whole new language to build everything in that, >>> but we must carefully resist that temptation and use it judiciously, >>>only >>> for what it is best at. >>> >> >> Will there be a list, or guide to help a LC script user to know when to >>use >> LCB? >> >> >>> >>> That pragmatic point out of the way, I haven?t dug into the ins and >>>outs >>> of the Script Editor since LCB originated to know what the arguments >>>are >>> on either side. So I?m not saying I know the right answer here. I know >>>the >>> tech team have done some more work looking on that but I haven?t seen >>>any >>> definite conclusions from that effort as yet as we have other >>>priorities >>> in getting the first version of 8.0 out the door just now. >>> >>> Kind regards, >>> >>> Kevin >>> >>> Kevin Miller ~ kevin at livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ >>> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps >>> >> >> Thanks. >> ~Roger >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > >_______________________________________________ >use-livecode mailing list >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dochawk at gmail.com Thu Aug 20 15:04:53 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 12:04:53 -0700 Subject: mouse pointer hot spot is way off In-Reply-To: References: <93B3AE25-AC20-4998-A7BF-A935E6B636BD@swcp.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 8:37 AM, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 2:53 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: > >> There's pretty persuasive evidence now that the shadowed variable bug is >> caused by stopping a debug run early. >> > > I'll watch for that, then. But it absolutely has to go; it costs me at > least several minutes, and sometimes a full hour, out of coding days. :( I just had it bite before I had even run a debugger. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Thu Aug 20 15:40:07 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 22:40:07 +0300 Subject: Autosave In-Reply-To: <55D4E121.8050607@fourthworld.com> References: <55D4DD9B.8070008@gmail.com> <55D4E121.8050607@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <55D62D17.6050503@gmail.com> On 19/08/15 23:03, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Richmond wrote: >> Why does this script NOT work in a small stack? >> >> on mouseUp >> palette stack "AUTOSAVE" >> put the short name of the topStack into TSTAK >> put TSTAK & " / " & the time & " / " & the date into TSTAKN >> put TSTAKN into fld "TSTAKN" >> save the topstack as TSTAKN >> end mouseUp > > Does it work on a large stack? By "small stack' I meant that that script is contained in a button on a palettised stack, and is meant to save another stack. It does put the data into the fld "TSTAKN" but does NOT save the top stack. The idea is to convert this code into the cardStack of a palette with a time interval so it serves as a version saver. But any sort of script to save a stack under a different name seems problematic: save stack "HEX rotate" as "Granny goes gay" doesn't work either. > > It might be problematic with a stack of any size since the date > returns a value that contains "/", which is used as a path delimiter > on OS X and Linux. > > What does "the result" give you after the save command? "can't open stack file" > > If instead of changing the path of the current stack what you're > looking to do is make a copy of it to a new location, I'd make a copy > of the file itself and leave the in-memory stack alone. > > -- > Richard Gaskin Richmond. From sundown at pacifier.com Thu Aug 20 15:57:18 2015 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 12:57:18 -0700 Subject: Autosave In-Reply-To: <55D62D17.6050503@gmail.com> References: <55D4DD9B.8070008@gmail.com> <55D4E121.8050607@fourthworld.com> <55D62D17.6050503@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5D71FBF1-F2D5-4A78-930E-845F0ACFBFE7@pacifier.com> On Aug 20, 2015, at 12:40 PM, Richmond wrote: > > save stack "HEX rotate" as "Granny goes gay" > > doesn't work either. > >> >> -- >> Richard Gaskin > > Richmond. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > When I was a teenager living in California Granny Goose Potato Chips had and ad that asked, ?are you man enough to eat Granny Goose?? John Balgenorth From bonnmike at gmail.com Thu Aug 20 16:21:14 2015 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 14:21:14 -0600 Subject: Autosave In-Reply-To: <55D62D17.6050503@gmail.com> References: <55D4DD9B.8070008@gmail.com> <55D4E121.8050607@fourthworld.com> <55D62D17.6050503@gmail.com> Message-ID: store the current filename of the stack. set the filename of the stack to whatever backup name you want save the stack. set the filename of the stack back to how it started Also, from your example, using " / " as part of the filename would probably be a bad idea since / is a directory separator. If you already have directories set up, then it would be fine, but since you're using the live time and date to do this, its unlikely thats what you were going for. Change it to "_" maybe. Just a quick and dirty example, but.. on mouseUp set the defaultfolder to specialfolderpath("desktop") --just so I can mess around palette this stack wait 0 with messages -- to make sure the palette is complete before moving on put the short name of the topStack into TSTAK put TSTAK & "_"& the time & "_" & the date into TSTAKN replace "/" with empty in TSTAKN -- remove slashes replace space with empty in TSTAKN-- the time has a space in it (for AM PM) put TSTAKN into fld "TSTAKN" -- make sure its been saved before and if so.. if the filename of the topstack is not empty then put the filename of the topstack into tOldFilename -- store the main filename set the filename of the topstack to TSTAKN -- set the temporary filename save stack (the short name of the topstack) -- save the stack put the result -- Just so I could see any errors set the filename of the topstack to tOldFilename -- revert to the main filename else -- if it wasn't saved already.. -- set the filename set the filename of the topstack to (the short name of the topstack & ".livecode") -- warn the user that the file will be saved answer information "Performing first stack save" -- save the file save the topstack-- as (the short name of the topstack & ".livecode") end if end mouseUp Obviously, you'll end up with a cleaner script that catches potential problems, but it seems to work fine. If you really want the slashes and spaces in there, I _THINK_ you might be able to pass in a full quoted string.. The spaces are relatively common and could be worked around, but I'd be avoiding the slashes. On Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 1:40 PM, Richmond wrote: > On 19/08/15 23:03, Richard Gaskin wrote: > >> Richmond wrote: >> >>> Why does this script NOT work in a small stack? >>> >>> on mouseUp >>> palette stack "AUTOSAVE" >>> put the short name of the topStack into TSTAK >>> put TSTAK & " / " & the time & " / " & the date into TSTAKN >>> put TSTAKN into fld "TSTAKN" >>> save the topstack as TSTAKN >>> end mouseUp >>> >> >> Does it work on a large stack? >> > > By "small stack' I meant that that script is contained in a button on a > palettised stack, and is meant to save another stack. > It does put the data into the fld "TSTAKN" but does NOT save the top stack. > > The idea is to convert this code into the cardStack of a palette with a > time interval so it serves as a version saver. > > But any sort of script to save a stack under a different name seems > problematic: > > save stack "HEX rotate" as "Granny goes gay" > > doesn't work either. > > >> It might be problematic with a stack of any size since the date returns a >> value that contains "/", which is used as a path delimiter on OS X and >> Linux. >> >> What does "the result" give you after the save command? >> > > "can't open stack file" > > >> If instead of changing the path of the current stack what you're looking >> to do is make a copy of it to a new location, I'd make a copy of the file >> itself and leave the in-memory stack alone. >> >> -- >> Richard Gaskin >> > > Richmond. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From bonnmike at gmail.com Thu Aug 20 16:38:32 2015 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 14:38:32 -0600 Subject: Autosave In-Reply-To: References: <55D4DD9B.8070008@gmail.com> <55D4E121.8050607@fourthworld.com> <55D62D17.6050503@gmail.com> Message-ID: You'll need to replace the ":" too. This is why apps that do this sort of thing build up the filename in reverse order, no separators. stacknameyearmonthdayhourminutesseconds Then, no need to mess with all the extraneous chars. (You'll still have to "sanitize" the name of the stack though) Perhaps just build things up and urlencode TSTAKN /shrug (or a quoted string, or 'escape' problematic chars) On Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 2:21 PM, Mike Bonner wrote: > store the current filename of the stack. > set the filename of the stack to whatever backup name you want > save the stack. > set the filename of the stack back to how it started > > Also, from your example, using " / " as part of the filename would > probably be a bad idea since / is a directory separator. If you already > have directories set up, then it would be fine, but since you're using the > live time and date to do this, its unlikely thats what you were going for. > Change it to "_" maybe. > > Just a quick and dirty example, but.. > > on mouseUp > set the defaultfolder to specialfolderpath("desktop") --just so I can > mess around > > palette this stack > wait 0 with messages -- to make sure the palette is complete before > moving on > > put the short name of the topStack into TSTAK > put TSTAK & "_"& the time & "_" & the date into TSTAKN > > replace "/" with empty in TSTAKN -- remove slashes > > replace space with empty in TSTAKN-- the time has a space in it (for AM > PM) > put TSTAKN into fld "TSTAKN" > > -- make sure its been saved before and if so.. > if the filename of the topstack is not empty then > put the filename of the topstack into tOldFilename -- store the main > filename > > set the filename of the topstack to TSTAKN -- set the temporary > filename > save stack (the short name of the topstack) -- save the stack > put the result -- Just so I could see any errors > set the filename of the topstack to tOldFilename -- revert to the > main filename > else > -- if it wasn't saved already.. > -- set the filename > set the filename of the topstack to (the short name of the topstack > & ".livecode") > > -- warn the user that the file will be saved > answer information "Performing first stack save" > > -- save the file > save the topstack-- as (the short name of the topstack & > ".livecode") > end if > end mouseUp > > Obviously, you'll end up with a cleaner script that catches potential > problems, but it seems to work fine. > > If you really want the slashes and spaces in there, I _THINK_ you might be > able to pass in a full quoted string.. The spaces are relatively common and > could be worked around, but I'd be avoiding the slashes. > > On Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 1:40 PM, Richmond > wrote: > >> On 19/08/15 23:03, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> >>> Richmond wrote: >>> >>>> Why does this script NOT work in a small stack? >>>> >>>> on mouseUp >>>> palette stack "AUTOSAVE" >>>> put the short name of the topStack into TSTAK >>>> put TSTAK & " / " & the time & " / " & the date into TSTAKN >>>> put TSTAKN into fld "TSTAKN" >>>> save the topstack as TSTAKN >>>> end mouseUp >>>> >>> >>> Does it work on a large stack? >>> >> >> By "small stack' I meant that that script is contained in a button on a >> palettised stack, and is meant to save another stack. >> It does put the data into the fld "TSTAKN" but does NOT save the top >> stack. >> >> The idea is to convert this code into the cardStack of a palette with a >> time interval so it serves as a version saver. >> >> But any sort of script to save a stack under a different name seems >> problematic: >> >> save stack "HEX rotate" as "Granny goes gay" >> >> doesn't work either. >> >> >>> It might be problematic with a stack of any size since the date returns >>> a value that contains "/", which is used as a path delimiter on OS X and >>> Linux. >>> >>> What does "the result" give you after the save command? >>> >> >> "can't open stack file" >> >> >>> If instead of changing the path of the current stack what you're looking >>> to do is make a copy of it to a new location, I'd make a copy of the file >>> itself and leave the in-memory stack alone. >>> >>> -- >>> Richard Gaskin >>> >> >> Richmond. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Aug 20 17:53:50 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 16:53:50 -0500 Subject: JSON, URL-encode, and UTF-8 In-Reply-To: <7E1F2A8E-B754-44A8-A506-85E8EA9987C2@sweattechnologies.com> References: <55D22AD6.60203@hyperactivesw.com> <735102C1-7509-4F51-9B45-1F0FE4722712@sweattechnologies.com> <55D24A21.9040807@hyperactivesw.com> <7E1F2A8E-B754-44A8-A506-85E8EA9987C2@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <55D64C6E.7000607@hyperactivesw.com> I'm still struggling with this. I have a valid JSON string, verified by a web-checking site and by the PHP developer. He wants me to POST it this way: json= It doesn't work. He says the server receives it but it is not passed to the PHP script because the main parameter is empty. Here's what I do: set the httpHeaders to "content-type: application/json" put convertToJSON() into tData -- produces valid JSON put "json=" before tData post tData to kServerURL The result is empty. The developer has set up the PHP to return the values back to me for testing, but "it" is also always empty. He says this means there is no "main parameter", but he also said adding "json=" to the front would provide that, he will just grab the params from what follows. The URL is https if that matters. I have also tried URLEncoding the JSON but it didn't help. I also tried removing the custom header. He pointed me to this web site: When I set it to send JSON and enter the same params there, it POSTs successfully to the server. How would you POST a JSON string to a PHP script on a secure server? -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From monte at sweattechnologies.com Thu Aug 20 18:04:01 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 08:04:01 +1000 Subject: JSON, URL-encode, and UTF-8 In-Reply-To: <55D64C6E.7000607@hyperactivesw.com> References: <55D22AD6.60203@hyperactivesw.com> <735102C1-7509-4F51-9B45-1F0FE4722712@sweattechnologies.com> <55D24A21.9040807@hyperactivesw.com> <7E1F2A8E-B754-44A8-A506-85E8EA9987C2@sweattechnologies.com> <55D64C6E.7000607@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <7371AD47-5D28-4F7C-8B1D-7BB6FEBBC1D9@sweattechnologies.com> Is your convertToJSON function returning UTF8? I?m not sure what LC 7 does when it concatenates ?json=? to a UTF8 string. If for example that json= is UTF16 and the rest of the data is UTF8 it?s not surprising the server is freaking out. Try: put textEncode(?json=?,?UTF8?) before tData > On 21 Aug 2015, at 7:53 am, J. Landman Gay wrote: > > I'm still struggling with this. I have a valid JSON string, verified by a web-checking site and by the PHP developer. He wants me to POST it this way: > > json= > > It doesn't work. He says the server receives it but it is not passed to the PHP script because the main parameter is empty. Here's what I do: > > set the httpHeaders to "content-type: application/json" > put convertToJSON() into tData -- produces valid JSON > put "json=" before tData > post tData to kServerURL > > The result is empty. The developer has set up the PHP to return the values back to me for testing, but "it" is also always empty. He says this means there is no "main parameter", but he also said adding "json=" to the front would provide that, he will just grab the params from what follows. > > The URL is https if that matters. I have also tried URLEncoding the JSON but it didn't help. I also tried removing the custom header. > > He pointed me to this web site: When I set it to send JSON and enter the same params there, it POSTs successfully to the server. > > How would you POST a JSON string to a PHP script on a secure server? > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Aug 20 18:15:03 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 17:15:03 -0500 Subject: JSON, URL-encode, and UTF-8 In-Reply-To: <55D64C6E.7000607@hyperactivesw.com> References: <55D22AD6.60203@hyperactivesw.com> <735102C1-7509-4F51-9B45-1F0FE4722712@sweattechnologies.com> <55D24A21.9040807@hyperactivesw.com> <7E1F2A8E-B754-44A8-A506-85E8EA9987C2@sweattechnologies.com> <55D64C6E.7000607@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <55D65167.5080000@hyperactivesw.com> Okay, addendum: It works fine in LC 6.7.6. It fails entirely in 7.0.6. I wish I'd tried that sooner. We need 7.x because of the unicode support. On 8/20/2015 4:53 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > I'm still struggling with this. I have a valid JSON string, verified by > a web-checking site and by the PHP developer. He wants me to POST it > this way: > > json= > > It doesn't work. He says the server receives it but it is not passed to > the PHP script because the main parameter is empty. Here's what I do: > > set the httpHeaders to "content-type: application/json" > put convertToJSON() into tData -- produces valid JSON > put "json=" before tData > post tData to kServerURL > > The result is empty. The developer has set up the PHP to return the > values back to me for testing, but "it" is also always empty. He says > this means there is no "main parameter", but he also said adding "json=" > to the front would provide that, he will just grab the params from what > follows. > > The URL is https if that matters. I have also tried URLEncoding the JSON > but it didn't help. I also tried removing the custom header. > > He pointed me to this web site: When I set it to > send JSON and enter the same params there, it POSTs successfully to the > server. > > How would you POST a JSON string to a PHP script on a secure server? > -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Aug 20 18:33:10 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 17:33:10 -0500 Subject: JSON, URL-encode, and UTF-8 In-Reply-To: <7371AD47-5D28-4F7C-8B1D-7BB6FEBBC1D9@sweattechnologies.com> References: <55D22AD6.60203@hyperactivesw.com> <735102C1-7509-4F51-9B45-1F0FE4722712@sweattechnologies.com> <55D24A21.9040807@hyperactivesw.com> <7E1F2A8E-B754-44A8-A506-85E8EA9987C2@sweattechnologies.com> <55D64C6E.7000607@hyperactivesw.com> <7371AD47-5D28-4F7C-8B1D-7BB6FEBBC1D9@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <55D655A6.9000206@hyperactivesw.com> Thanks, but still no go. I get the same errors. Is anyone posting from LC 7? I also just tried 7.1rc1 but it doesn't work either. On 8/20/2015 5:04 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > Is your convertToJSON function returning UTF8? I?m not sure what LC 7 does when it concatenates ?json=? to a UTF8 string. If for example that json= is UTF16 and the rest of the data is UTF8 it?s not surprising the server is freaking out. Try: > > put textEncode(?json=?,?UTF8?) before tData > >> On 21 Aug 2015, at 7:53 am, J. Landman Gay wrote: >> >> I'm still struggling with this. I have a valid JSON string, verified by a web-checking site and by the PHP developer. He wants me to POST it this way: >> >> json= >> >> It doesn't work. He says the server receives it but it is not passed to the PHP script because the main parameter is empty. Here's what I do: >> >> set the httpHeaders to "content-type: application/json" >> put convertToJSON() into tData -- produces valid JSON >> put "json=" before tData >> post tData to kServerURL >> >> The result is empty. The developer has set up the PHP to return the values back to me for testing, but "it" is also always empty. He says this means there is no "main parameter", but he also said adding "json=" to the front would provide that, he will just grab the params from what follows. >> >> The URL is https if that matters. I have also tried URLEncoding the JSON but it didn't help. I also tried removing the custom header. >> >> He pointed me to this web site: When I set it to send JSON and enter the same params there, it POSTs successfully to the server. >> >> How would you POST a JSON string to a PHP script on a secure server? >> >> -- >> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From monte at sweattechnologies.com Thu Aug 20 19:03:16 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 09:03:16 +1000 Subject: JSON, URL-encode, and UTF-8 In-Reply-To: <55D655A6.9000206@hyperactivesw.com> References: <55D22AD6.60203@hyperactivesw.com> <735102C1-7509-4F51-9B45-1F0FE4722712@sweattechnologies.com> <55D24A21.9040807@hyperactivesw.com> <7E1F2A8E-B754-44A8-A506-85E8EA9987C2@sweattechnologies.com> <55D64C6E.7000607@hyperactivesw.com> <7371AD47-5D28-4F7C-8B1D-7BB6FEBBC1D9@sweattechnologies.com> <55D655A6.9000206@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Just before posting can you dump your tData variable into a binfile and send it to me. It's got to be something simple... Sent from my iPhone > On 21 Aug 2015, at 8:33 am, J. Landman Gay wrote: > > Thanks, but still no go. I get the same errors. > > Is anyone posting from LC 7? I also just tried 7.1rc1 but it doesn't work either. > >> On 8/20/2015 5:04 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: >> Is your convertToJSON function returning UTF8? I?m not sure what LC 7 does when it concatenates ?json=? to a UTF8 string. If for example that json= is UTF16 and the rest of the data is UTF8 it?s not surprising the server is freaking out. Try: >> >> put textEncode(?json=?,?UTF8?) before tData >> >>> On 21 Aug 2015, at 7:53 am, J. Landman Gay wrote: >>> >>> I'm still struggling with this. I have a valid JSON string, verified by a web-checking site and by the PHP developer. He wants me to POST it this way: >>> >>> json= >>> >>> It doesn't work. He says the server receives it but it is not passed to the PHP script because the main parameter is empty. Here's what I do: >>> >>> set the httpHeaders to "content-type: application/json" >>> put convertToJSON() into tData -- produces valid JSON >>> put "json=" before tData >>> post tData to kServerURL >>> >>> The result is empty. The developer has set up the PHP to return the values back to me for testing, but "it" is also always empty. He says this means there is no "main parameter", but he also said adding "json=" to the front would provide that, he will just grab the params from what follows. >>> >>> The URL is https if that matters. I have also tried URLEncoding the JSON but it didn't help. I also tried removing the custom header. >>> >>> He pointed me to this web site: When I set it to send JSON and enter the same params there, it POSTs successfully to the server. >>> >>> How would you POST a JSON string to a PHP script on a secure server? >>> >>> -- >>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com >>> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From peterwawood at gmail.com Thu Aug 20 19:25:25 2015 From: peterwawood at gmail.com (Peter W A Wood) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 07:25:25 +0800 Subject: JSON, URL-encode, and UTF-8 In-Reply-To: <55D64C6E.7000607@hyperactivesw.com> References: <55D22AD6.60203@hyperactivesw.com> <735102C1-7509-4F51-9B45-1F0FE4722712@sweattechnologies.com> <55D24A21.9040807@hyperactivesw.com> <7E1F2A8E-B754-44A8-A506-85E8EA9987C2@sweattechnologies.com> <55D64C6E.7000607@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Jacque > On 21 Aug 2015, at 05:53, J. Landman Gay wrote: > > Here's what I do: > > set the httpHeaders to "content-type: application/json" > put convertToJSON() into tData -- produces valid JSON > put "json=" before tData > post tData to kServerURL You?re content is no longer valid JSON once you have inserted the ?json=? (at the PHP developer?s request). There may be a conflict between the header and the actual content. What happens if you remove the line setting the httpHeaders? Regards Peter From monte at sweattechnologies.com Thu Aug 20 19:29:22 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 09:29:22 +1000 Subject: JSON, URL-encode, and UTF-8 In-Reply-To: References: <55D22AD6.60203@hyperactivesw.com> <735102C1-7509-4F51-9B45-1F0FE4722712@sweattechnologies.com> <55D24A21.9040807@hyperactivesw.com> <7E1F2A8E-B754-44A8-A506-85E8EA9987C2@sweattechnologies.com> <55D64C6E.7000607@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: > On 21 Aug 2015, at 9:25 am, Peter W A Wood wrote: > > You?re content is no longer valid JSON once you have inserted the ?json=? (at the PHP developer?s request). There may be a conflict between the header and the actual content. What happens if you remove the line setting the httpHeaders? That?s a good question. I can?t see anything wrong with the JSON itself after reviewing the file. Validates and formats fine in TextMate. Are you sure they want post and not get or put? From monte at sweattechnologies.com Thu Aug 20 19:32:18 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 09:32:18 +1000 Subject: JSON, URL-encode, and UTF-8 In-Reply-To: References: <55D22AD6.60203@hyperactivesw.com> <735102C1-7509-4F51-9B45-1F0FE4722712@sweattechnologies.com> <55D24A21.9040807@hyperactivesw.com> <7E1F2A8E-B754-44A8-A506-85E8EA9987C2@sweattechnologies.com> <55D64C6E.7000607@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: > On 21 Aug 2015, at 9:29 am, Monte Goulding wrote: > > That?s a good question. I can?t see anything wrong with the JSON itself after reviewing the file. Validates and formats fine in TextMate. Are you sure they want post and not get or put? Hmm? I just remembered you said it works in 6 and not 7. Perhaps it?s not something simple after all but try not setting the header first... From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Aug 20 19:33:22 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 18:33:22 -0500 Subject: JSON, URL-encode, and UTF-8 In-Reply-To: References: <55D22AD6.60203@hyperactivesw.com> <735102C1-7509-4F51-9B45-1F0FE4722712@sweattechnologies.com> <55D24A21.9040807@hyperactivesw.com> <7E1F2A8E-B754-44A8-A506-85E8EA9987C2@sweattechnologies.com> <55D64C6E.7000607@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <55D663C2.4090307@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/20/2015 6:25 PM, Peter W A Wood wrote: > You?re content is no longer valid JSON once you have inserted the > ?json=? (at the PHP developer?s request). There may be a conflict > between the header and the actual content. What happens if you remove > the line setting the httpHeaders? Thanks Peter. No change, it still fails. I think the PHP guy is stripping off the "json=" anyway and just grabbing the parameters. But it does work without the header in LC 6. I may as well remove the header I suppose. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Aug 20 19:35:49 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 18:35:49 -0500 Subject: JSON, URL-encode, and UTF-8 In-Reply-To: References: <55D22AD6.60203@hyperactivesw.com> <735102C1-7509-4F51-9B45-1F0FE4722712@sweattechnologies.com> <55D24A21.9040807@hyperactivesw.com> <7E1F2A8E-B754-44A8-A506-85E8EA9987C2@sweattechnologies.com> <55D64C6E.7000607@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <55D66455.6060507@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/20/2015 6:32 PM, Monte Goulding wrote: > >> On 21 Aug 2015, at 9:29 am, Monte Goulding >> wrote: >> >> That?s a good question. I can?t see anything wrong with the JSON >> itself after reviewing the file. Validates and formats fine in >> TextMate. Are you sure they want post and not get or put? > > Hmm? I just remembered you said it works in 6 and not 7. Perhaps it?s > not something simple after all but try not setting the header > first... Right. Works without header in 6, fails in 7. Thanks for looking at my file. I wonder what would happen if I use the LC 6 libURL script in LC 7. Will my unicode go all wonky? The file I sent you is in English but most of the time it won't be. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk Thu Aug 20 19:45:11 2015 From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 00:45:11 +0100 Subject: JSON, URL-encode, and UTF-8 In-Reply-To: <55D663C2.4090307@hyperactivesw.com> References: <55D22AD6.60203@hyperactivesw.com> <735102C1-7509-4F51-9B45-1F0FE4722712@sweattechnologies.com> <55D24A21.9040807@hyperactivesw.com> <7E1F2A8E-B754-44A8-A506-85E8EA9987C2@sweattechnologies.com> <55D64C6E.7000607@hyperactivesw.com> <55D663C2.4090307@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <5A619B10-DC44-465D-8AE5-7A5D5A4469A3@lacscentre.co.uk> > On 21 Aug 2015, at 00:33, J. Landman Gay wrote: > > On 8/20/2015 6:25 PM, Peter W A Wood wrote: > >> You?re content is no longer valid JSON once you have inserted the >> ?json=? (at the PHP developer?s request). There may be a conflict >> between the header and the actual content. What happens if you remove >> the line setting the httpHeaders? > > Thanks Peter. No change, it still fails. I think the PHP guy is stripping off the "json=" anyway and just grabbing the parameters. But it does work without the header in LC 6. What happens if you remove the httpHeader setting and also UrlEncode tData? Dave From monte at sweattechnologies.com Thu Aug 20 19:50:24 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 09:50:24 +1000 Subject: JSON, URL-encode, and UTF-8 In-Reply-To: <5A619B10-DC44-465D-8AE5-7A5D5A4469A3@lacscentre.co.uk> References: <55D22AD6.60203@hyperactivesw.com> <735102C1-7509-4F51-9B45-1F0FE4722712@sweattechnologies.com> <55D24A21.9040807@hyperactivesw.com> <7E1F2A8E-B754-44A8-A506-85E8EA9987C2@sweattechnologies.com> <55D64C6E.7000607@hyperactivesw.com> <55D663C2.4090307@hyperactivesw.com> <5A619B10-DC44-465D-8AE5-7A5D5A4469A3@lacscentre.co.uk> Message-ID: <665B505D-16D8-45F6-B8D9-900C4270A745@sweattechnologies.com> What happens if you comment out line 247 of revLibURL stack script? textEncode native here seems to be a rather dangerous thing to do? > On 21 Aug 2015, at 9:45 am, Dave Cragg wrote: > > >> On 21 Aug 2015, at 00:33, J. Landman Gay wrote: >> >> On 8/20/2015 6:25 PM, Peter W A Wood wrote: >> >>> You?re content is no longer valid JSON once you have inserted the >>> ?json=? (at the PHP developer?s request). There may be a conflict >>> between the header and the actual content. What happens if you remove >>> the line setting the httpHeaders? >> >> Thanks Peter. No change, it still fails. I think the PHP guy is stripping off the "json=" anyway and just grabbing the parameters. But it does work without the header in LC 6. > > What happens if you remove the httpHeader setting and also UrlEncode tData? > > Dave > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From charles at techstrategies.com.au Thu Aug 20 20:24:15 2015 From: charles at techstrategies.com.au (Charles Warwick) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 10:24:15 +1000 Subject: JSON, URL-encode, and UTF-8 In-Reply-To: <665B505D-16D8-45F6-B8D9-900C4270A745@sweattechnologies.com> References: <55D22AD6.60203@hyperactivesw.com> <735102C1-7509-4F51-9B45-1F0FE4722712@sweattechnologies.com> <55D24A21.9040807@hyperactivesw.com> <7E1F2A8E-B754-44A8-A506-85E8EA9987C2@sweattechnologies.com> <55D64C6E.7000607@hyperactivesw.com> <55D663C2.4090307@hyperactivesw.com> <5A619B10-DC44-465D-8AE5-7A5D5A4469A3@lacscentre.co.uk> <665B505D-16D8-45F6-B8D9-900C4270A745@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: If you are still having issues with this, I am happy to run a packet capture against it if you give me a copy of the script? That way I can tell you what the exact difference is between what LC7 and LC6 actually post to the server? > On 21 Aug 2015, at 9:50 am, Monte Goulding wrote: > > What happens if you comment out line 247 of revLibURL stack script? textEncode native here seems to be a rather dangerous thing to do? > >> On 21 Aug 2015, at 9:45 am, Dave Cragg wrote: >> >> >>> On 21 Aug 2015, at 00:33, J. Landman Gay wrote: >>> >>> On 8/20/2015 6:25 PM, Peter W A Wood wrote: >>> >>>> You?re content is no longer valid JSON once you have inserted the >>>> ?json=? (at the PHP developer?s request). There may be a conflict >>>> between the header and the actual content. What happens if you remove >>>> the line setting the httpHeaders? >>> >>> Thanks Peter. No change, it still fails. I think the PHP guy is stripping off the "json=" anyway and just grabbing the parameters. But it does work without the header in LC 6. >> >> What happens if you remove the httpHeader setting and also UrlEncode tData? >> >> Dave >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bill at bluewatermaritime.com Thu Aug 20 20:32:22 2015 From: bill at bluewatermaritime.com (william humphrey) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 20:32:22 -0400 Subject: arrow keys in datagrid Message-ID: If I have a new stack with a list field and a datagrid both with rows of data in them the arrow keys behave differently. In the list field you can select a row and then, using the arrow keys, move to a row above or below. In the datagrid you can select a row but the arrow keys will not move that selection to a row above or below. How do you get the arrow keys to have the same behaviour in a datagrid as they do in a list field? thnks From bonnmike at gmail.com Thu Aug 20 20:53:01 2015 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 18:53:01 -0600 Subject: arrow keys in datagrid In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This will sound freaky, but.. In the script of the datagrid group (select the datagrid, edit its script) add an empty arrowkey handler on arrowkey end arrowkey Then try it. On Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 6:32 PM, william humphrey < bill at bluewatermaritime.com> wrote: > If I have a new stack with a list field and a datagrid both with rows of > data in them the arrow keys behave differently. In the list field you can > select a row and then, using the arrow keys, move to a row above or below. > In the datagrid you can select a row but the arrow keys will not move that > selection to a row above or below. > > How do you get the arrow keys to have the same behaviour in a datagrid as > they do in a list field? > > thnks > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From peterwawood at gmail.com Thu Aug 20 20:58:12 2015 From: peterwawood at gmail.com (Peter W A Wood) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 08:58:12 +0800 Subject: JSON, URL-encode, and UTF-8 In-Reply-To: <55D66455.6060507@hyperactivesw.com> References: <55D22AD6.60203@hyperactivesw.com> <735102C1-7509-4F51-9B45-1F0FE4722712@sweattechnologies.com> <55D24A21.9040807@hyperactivesw.com> <7E1F2A8E-B754-44A8-A506-85E8EA9987C2@sweattechnologies.com> <55D64C6E.7000607@hyperactivesw.com> <55D66455.6060507@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <8B5D3591-A93D-4567-ABCF-6DD395C733E5@gmail.com> Jacque > On 21 Aug 2015, at 07:35, J. Landman Gay wrote: > > Right. Works without header in 6, fails in 7. Thanks for looking at my file. I wonder what would happen if I use the LC 6 libURL script in LC 7. Will my unicode go all wonky? The file I sent you is in English but most of the time it won't be. I ran a very simple test using the message box and a very simple PHP script. I was able to post json={JSON} to PHP and get it back. In the message box (using LC 7..0.3) post textEncode("json={" & quote & "?" & quote & ": 1}", "UTF-8") to URL "http://Localhost/jacque.php" put textDecode(it, "UTF-8?) The PHP script: The result in the message box: {"?": 1} This would indicate your issue is not caused by a bug. I?m not sure if you are URLEncoding the data ? that certainly seems to cause a problem Revised LiveCode put textEncode("{ " & quote & "?" & quote & ": 1}", "UTF-8") into tJSON put "json=" before tJSON post URLEncode(tJSON) to URL "http://Localhost/jacque.php" put textDecode(it, "UTF-8?) Result PHP sends back an empty response. Hope this is of some help. Peter From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Thu Aug 20 21:01:02 2015 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 03:01:02 +0200 Subject: [OT] Copyrighting games? In-Reply-To: References: <55D4AE0E.30401@gmail.com><617fd5e48dcf3f46592c7936a64999a0@livecode.com><55D4B3A4.4000700@gmail.com> <55D4D364.4080304@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: <55D6784E.7030204@economy-x-talk.com> I didn't say "do nothing". I said: don't spend your money on something that's essentially free. -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer KvK: 50277553 Installer Maker for LiveCode: http://qery.us/468 Buy my new book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner" http://qery.us/3fi LiveCode on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/runrev/ On 8/20/2015 17:28, Lynn Fredricks wrote: >> Since nobody needs to pay money to "copyright" a work, or in >> fact nobody NEEDS to "copyright" a work, because it already >> is copyrighted, I'd say this website is merely a way to lose >> some money. > > You can always do nothing. Registration provides additional benefits though. > You can find the equivalent on a lot of sites but this article is short and > clear about the benefits of registration: > > http://www.ohiostartuplaw.com/top-5-benefits-of-copyright-registration/ > > The NOLO legal guides are pretty good for lightweight legal stuff. > > Best regards, > > Lynn Fredricks > Paradigma Software > http://www.paradigmasoft.com > > Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From bill at bluewatermaritime.com Thu Aug 20 21:06:49 2015 From: bill at bluewatermaritime.com (william humphrey) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 21:06:49 -0400 Subject: arrow keys in datagrid In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I tried that. It didn't solve the problem. What's even weirder is I seem to remember that the datagrid used to work with arrow keys. I made a test stack to be sure it was nothing else in my work that could be causing the problem. Your suggestion didn't work there either. This is Livecode 6.7.4 On Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 8:53 PM, Mike Bonner wrote: > on arrowkey > > end arrowkey > -- http://www.bluewatermaritime.com From charles at techstrategies.com.au Thu Aug 20 21:13:56 2015 From: charles at techstrategies.com.au (Charles Warwick) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 11:13:56 +1000 Subject: arrow keys in datagrid In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <66FF4C2E-3754-48FC-A5FD-B03A36A9A10D@techstrategies.com.au> I use data grids in a lot of applications and the arrow keys always work? I just opened up LC 6.7.5, dragged in a data grid, went to its property inspector and added some data in the ?contents? tab? Going to ?run? mode, I can select a row and move up and down with the arrow keys?. Does a simple test like that work for you? > On 21 Aug 2015, at 11:06 am, william humphrey wrote: > > I tried that. It didn't solve the problem. What's even weirder is I seem to > remember that the datagrid used to work with arrow keys. I made a test > stack to be sure it was nothing else in my work that could be causing the > problem. Your suggestion didn't work there either. > > This is Livecode 6.7.4 > > > On Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 8:53 PM, Mike Bonner wrote: > >> on arrowkey >> >> end arrowkey >> > > > > > -- > http://www.bluewatermaritime.com > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From monte at sweattechnologies.com Thu Aug 20 21:17:29 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 11:17:29 +1000 Subject: JSON, URL-encode, and UTF-8 In-Reply-To: <8B5D3591-A93D-4567-ABCF-6DD395C733E5@gmail.com> References: <55D22AD6.60203@hyperactivesw.com> <735102C1-7509-4F51-9B45-1F0FE4722712@sweattechnologies.com> <55D24A21.9040807@hyperactivesw.com> <7E1F2A8E-B754-44A8-A506-85E8EA9987C2@sweattechnologies.com> <55D64C6E.7000607@hyperactivesw.com> <55D66455.6060507@hyperactivesw.com> <8B5D3591-A93D-4567-ABCF-6DD395C733E5@gmail.com> Message-ID: <01E7D43D-DFD4-4D85-A2B0-B10B9F9E2F47@sweattechnologies.com> > On 21 Aug 2015, at 10:58 am, Peter W A Wood wrote: > > put textEncode("{ " & quote & "?" & quote & ": 1}", "UTF-8") into tJSON > put "json=" before tJSON > post URLEncode(tJSON) to URL "http://Localhost/jacque.php " > put textDecode(it, "UTF-8?) You would want to urlEncode tJSON before you put json= before it so the = isn?t encoded. From charles at techstrategies.com.au Thu Aug 20 21:22:24 2015 From: charles at techstrategies.com.au (Charles Warwick) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 11:22:24 +1000 Subject: JSON, URL-encode, and UTF-8 In-Reply-To: <01E7D43D-DFD4-4D85-A2B0-B10B9F9E2F47@sweattechnologies.com> References: <55D22AD6.60203@hyperactivesw.com> <735102C1-7509-4F51-9B45-1F0FE4722712@sweattechnologies.com> <55D24A21.9040807@hyperactivesw.com> <7E1F2A8E-B754-44A8-A506-85E8EA9987C2@sweattechnologies.com> <55D64C6E.7000607@hyperactivesw.com> <55D66455.6060507@hyperactivesw.com> <8B5D3591-A93D-4567-ABCF-6DD395C733E5@gmail.com> <01E7D43D-DFD4-4D85-A2B0-B10B9F9E2F47@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: Encoding the = would break the POST data, as it would no longer be assigned the json data itself as a POST variable?. you only want to url encode the contents of the json variable > On 21 Aug 2015, at 11:17 am, Monte Goulding wrote: > > >> On 21 Aug 2015, at 10:58 am, Peter W A Wood wrote: >> >> put textEncode("{ " & quote & "?" & quote & ": 1}", "UTF-8") into tJSON >> put "json=" before tJSON >> post URLEncode(tJSON) to URL "http://Localhost/jacque.php " >> put textDecode(it, "UTF-8?) > > You would want to urlEncode tJSON before you put json= before it so the = isn?t encoded. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Aug 20 21:27:34 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 20:27:34 -0500 Subject: JSON, URL-encode, and UTF-8 In-Reply-To: <5A619B10-DC44-465D-8AE5-7A5D5A4469A3@lacscentre.co.uk> References: <55D22AD6.60203@hyperactivesw.com> <735102C1-7509-4F51-9B45-1F0FE4722712@sweattechnologies.com> <55D24A21.9040807@hyperactivesw.com> <7E1F2A8E-B754-44A8-A506-85E8EA9987C2@sweattechnologies.com> <55D64C6E.7000607@hyperactivesw.com> <55D663C2.4090307@hyperactivesw.com> <5A619B10-DC44-465D-8AE5-7A5D5A4469A3@lacscentre.co.uk> Message-ID: <55D67E86.1090509@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/20/2015 6:45 PM, Dave Cragg wrote: > What happens if you remove the httpHeader setting and also UrlEncode > tData? Still errors I'm afraid. Monte wrote: > What happens if you comment out line 247 of revLibURL stack script? > textEncode native here seems to be a rather dangerous thing to do? Still errors. Charles wrote: > If you are still having issues with this, I am happy to run a packet > capture against it if you give me a copy of the script? > > That way I can tell you what the exact difference is between what > LC7 and LC6 actually post to the server? That sounds useful. I probably won't understand it but someone else here might. I'll write you privately if you don't mind. Thanks. Peter wrote: > I?m not sure if you are URLEncoding the data ? that certainly seems > to cause a problem I'm not URLEncoding the data, though I did try it and it failed. I'm not good enough with PHP to even begin to reproduce your setup. I'm a one-trick LC pony. I'm also running a low-grade fever and feel awful, so it's probably affecting my thought processes. But I thought I could just "post" and be done with it. The next hurdle will be getting this to run on iOS which is the target platform. I haven't even gone there yet. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From shoreagent at gmail.com Thu Aug 20 21:30:56 2015 From: shoreagent at gmail.com (William Humphrey) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 21:30:56 -0400 Subject: arrow keys in datagrid In-Reply-To: <66FF4C2E-3754-48FC-A5FD-B03A36A9A10D@techstrategies.com.au> References: <66FF4C2E-3754-48FC-A5FD-B03A36A9A10D@techstrategies.com.au> Message-ID: <285CB955-C38F-44F3-A1C1-53A528BC2E46@gmail.com> No that simple test did not work for me. Tomorrow I will try with a different version of livecode. Brevity and errors in this email probably the result of being sent by a mobile device. > On Aug 20, 2015, at 9:13 PM, Charles Warwick wrote: > > I use data grids in a lot of applications and the arrow keys always work? > > I just opened up LC 6.7.5, dragged in a data grid, went to its property inspector and added some data in the ?contents? tab? > > Going to ?run? mode, I can select a row and move up and down with the arrow keys?. > > Does a simple test like that work for you? > >> On 21 Aug 2015, at 11:06 am, william humphrey wrote: >> >> I tried that. It didn't solve the problem. What's even weirder is I seem to >> remember that the datagrid used to work with arrow keys. I made a test >> stack to be sure it was nothing else in my work that could be causing the >> problem. Your suggestion didn't work there either. >> >> This is Livecode 6.7.4 >> >> >>> On Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 8:53 PM, Mike Bonner wrote: >>> >>> on arrowkey >>> >>> end arrowkey >> >> >> >> >> -- >> http://www.bluewatermaritime.com >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Aug 20 21:35:00 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 20:35:00 -0500 Subject: JSON, URL-encode, and UTF-8 In-Reply-To: References: <55D22AD6.60203@hyperactivesw.com> <735102C1-7509-4F51-9B45-1F0FE4722712@sweattechnologies.com> <55D24A21.9040807@hyperactivesw.com> <7E1F2A8E-B754-44A8-A506-85E8EA9987C2@sweattechnologies.com> <55D64C6E.7000607@hyperactivesw.com> <55D663C2.4090307@hyperactivesw.com> <5A619B10-DC44-465D-8AE5-7A5D5A4469A3@lacscentre.co.uk> <665B505D-16D8-45F6-B8D9-900C4270A745@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <55D68044.8090600@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/20/2015 7:24 PM, Charles Warwick wrote: > If you are still having issues with this, I am happy to run a packet > capture against it if you give me a copy of the script? > > That way I can tell you what the exact difference is between what LC7 > and LC6 actually post to the server? Actually, now that I think of it, this probably will show a good deal of difference because the LC 7 version will be UTF8 and the LC 6 version won't. Which might be the problem, but I don't know. Do you think this would still be useful? -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From sundown at pacifier.com Thu Aug 20 21:39:22 2015 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 18:39:22 -0700 Subject: [OT] Copyrighting games? In-Reply-To: <55D6784E.7030204@economy-x-talk.com> References: <55D4AE0E.30401@gmail.com><617fd5e48dcf3f46592c7936a64999a0@livecode.com><55D4B3A4.4000700@gmail.com> <55D4D364.4080304@economy-x-talk.com> <55D6784E.7030204@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: <8B18DE0B-7E63-41DC-9951-5F00C0E83FFC@pacifier.com> I was reading an article on how to copyright software http://www.wikihow.com/Copyright-Software It talks about how to submit your software code and what to do if it contains trade secrets. And then it says this, ? Your copyright extends only to the actual expression or execution of the software application. It does not protect the software concept, program logic or algorithms, or the layout of the user interface. It sounds like your trade secrets are not protected. John Balgenorth On Aug 20, 2015, at 6:01 PM, Mark Schonewille wrote: > I didn't say "do nothing". I said: don't spend your money on something that's essentially free. > > -- > Best regards, > > Mark Schonewille > > Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering > Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com > Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer > KvK: 50277553 > > Installer Maker for LiveCode: > http://qery.us/468 > > Buy my new book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner" http://qery.us/3fi > > LiveCode on Facebook: > https://www.facebook.com/groups/runrev/ > > On 8/20/2015 17:28, Lynn Fredricks wrote: >>> Since nobody needs to pay money to "copyright" a work, or in >>> fact nobody NEEDS to "copyright" a work, because it already >>> is copyrighted, I'd say this website is merely a way to lose >>> some money. >> >> You can always do nothing. Registration provides additional benefits though. >> You can find the equivalent on a lot of sites but this article is short and >> clear about the benefits of registration: >> >> http://www.ohiostartuplaw.com/top-5-benefits-of-copyright-registration/ >> >> The NOLO legal guides are pretty good for lightweight legal stuff. >> >> Best regards, >> >> Lynn Fredricks >> Paradigma Software >> http://www.paradigmasoft.com >> >> Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From charles at techstrategies.com.au Thu Aug 20 21:46:14 2015 From: charles at techstrategies.com.au (Charles Warwick) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 11:46:14 +1000 Subject: JSON, URL-encode, and UTF-8 In-Reply-To: <55D68044.8090600@hyperactivesw.com> References: <55D22AD6.60203@hyperactivesw.com> <735102C1-7509-4F51-9B45-1F0FE4722712@sweattechnologies.com> <55D24A21.9040807@hyperactivesw.com> <7E1F2A8E-B754-44A8-A506-85E8EA9987C2@sweattechnologies.com> <55D64C6E.7000607@hyperactivesw.com> <55D663C2.4090307@hyperactivesw.com> <5A619B10-DC44-465D-8AE5-7A5D5A4469A3@lacscentre.co.uk> <665B505D-16D8-45F6-B8D9-900C4270A745@sweattechnologies.com> <55D68044.8090600@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <1FE31E52-5666-4124-A041-9D90A2AFEF0F@techstrategies.com.au> It will still be useful? what I want to look at is what headers are generated and whether or not the JSON is still correctly formatted. With a copy of the script, I should be able to tell you what is causing it to break between the versions. I have been posting JSON data to PHP in other applications with no problems, so it must be something specific to what you are trying to do. > On 21 Aug 2015, at 11:35 am, J. Landman Gay wrote: > > On 8/20/2015 7:24 PM, Charles Warwick wrote: >> If you are still having issues with this, I am happy to run a packet >> capture against it if you give me a copy of the script? >> >> That way I can tell you what the exact difference is between what LC7 >> and LC6 actually post to the server? > > Actually, now that I think of it, this probably will show a good deal of difference because the LC 7 version will be UTF8 and the LC 6 version won't. > > Which might be the problem, but I don't know. Do you think this would still be useful? > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Aug 20 22:13:11 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 21:13:11 -0500 Subject: JSON, URL-encode, and UTF-8 In-Reply-To: <7371AD47-5D28-4F7C-8B1D-7BB6FEBBC1D9@sweattechnologies.com> References: <55D22AD6.60203@hyperactivesw.com> <735102C1-7509-4F51-9B45-1F0FE4722712@sweattechnologies.com> <55D24A21.9040807@hyperactivesw.com> <7E1F2A8E-B754-44A8-A506-85E8EA9987C2@sweattechnologies.com> <55D64C6E.7000607@hyperactivesw.com> <7371AD47-5D28-4F7C-8B1D-7BB6FEBBC1D9@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <55D68937.8040301@hyperactivesw.com> Here's a test. This posts just fine in LC 6.x but fails in 7.0.6 and 7.1rc1. Make a field with this in it: [{"Meals":"Yes","Purpose":"Business"}] Now put this into a button or card script: constant kServerURL = "https://www.domain.com/results.php" --### use a valid URL here command sendToServer if the version < 7 then put fld 1 into tData put "json=" before tData else put textEncode(fld 1,"UTF8") into tData put textEncode("json=",UTF8) before tData end if post tData to kServerURL put it into tResponse put the result into tErr breakpoint -- so you can see it end sendToServer If someone can test this against a simple echo PHP maybe it will tell us something. The real server returns empty in LC 7 and "OK" in LC 6. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Aug 20 22:18:32 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 21:18:32 -0500 Subject: JSON, URL-encode, and UTF-8 In-Reply-To: <1FE31E52-5666-4124-A041-9D90A2AFEF0F@techstrategies.com.au> References: <55D22AD6.60203@hyperactivesw.com> <735102C1-7509-4F51-9B45-1F0FE4722712@sweattechnologies.com> <55D24A21.9040807@hyperactivesw.com> <7E1F2A8E-B754-44A8-A506-85E8EA9987C2@sweattechnologies.com> <55D64C6E.7000607@hyperactivesw.com> <55D663C2.4090307@hyperactivesw.com> <5A619B10-DC44-465D-8AE5-7A5D5A4469A3@lacscentre.co.uk> <665B505D-16D8-45F6-B8D9-900C4270A745@sweattechnologies.com> <55D68044.8090600@hyperactivesw.com> <1FE31E52-5666-4124-A041-9D90A2AFEF0F@techstrategies.com.au> Message-ID: <55D68A78.4010705@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/20/2015 8:46 PM, Charles Warwick wrote: > It will still be useful? what I want to look at is what headers are > generated and whether or not the JSON is still correctly formatted. > > With a copy of the script, I should be able to tell you what is > causing it to break between the versions. > > I have been posting JSON data to PHP in other applications with no > problems, so it must be something specific to what you are trying to > do. Okay, thanks very much. I just sent a test script to the list that fails reproducibly. You'll need to put in a valid URL though, I can't really give out my client's. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From bonnmike at gmail.com Thu Aug 20 22:48:42 2015 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 20:48:42 -0600 Subject: arrow keys in datagrid In-Reply-To: <285CB955-C38F-44F3-A1C1-53A528BC2E46@gmail.com> References: <66FF4C2E-3754-48FC-A5FD-B03A36A9A10D@techstrategies.com.au> <285CB955-C38F-44F3-A1C1-53A528BC2E46@gmail.com> Message-ID: Strange. For me, the arrow keys don't work unless I have the empty handler in there. (I was going to write a quicky to do the job, but when I add the empty, poof. It works) On Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 7:30 PM, William Humphrey wrote: > No that simple test did not work for me. Tomorrow I will try with a > different version of livecode. > > Brevity and errors in this email probably the result of being sent by a > mobile device. > > > On Aug 20, 2015, at 9:13 PM, Charles Warwick < > charles at techstrategies.com.au> wrote: > > > > I use data grids in a lot of applications and the arrow keys always work? > > > > I just opened up LC 6.7.5, dragged in a data grid, went to its property > inspector and added some data in the ?contents? tab? > > > > Going to ?run? mode, I can select a row and move up and down with the > arrow keys?. > > > > Does a simple test like that work for you? > > > >> On 21 Aug 2015, at 11:06 am, william humphrey < > bill at bluewatermaritime.com> wrote: > >> > >> I tried that. It didn't solve the problem. What's even weirder is I > seem to > >> remember that the datagrid used to work with arrow keys. I made a test > >> stack to be sure it was nothing else in my work that could be causing > the > >> problem. Your suggestion didn't work there either. > >> > >> This is Livecode 6.7.4 > >> > >> > >>> On Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 8:53 PM, Mike Bonner > wrote: > >>> > >>> on arrowkey > >>> > >>> end arrowkey > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> http://www.bluewatermaritime.com > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From charles at techstrategies.com.au Thu Aug 20 22:53:35 2015 From: charles at techstrategies.com.au (Charles Warwick) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 12:53:35 +1000 Subject: JSON, URL-encode, and UTF-8 In-Reply-To: <55D68937.8040301@hyperactivesw.com> References: <55D22AD6.60203@hyperactivesw.com> <735102C1-7509-4F51-9B45-1F0FE4722712@sweattechnologies.com> <55D24A21.9040807@hyperactivesw.com> <7E1F2A8E-B754-44A8-A506-85E8EA9987C2@sweattechnologies.com> <55D64C6E.7000607@hyperactivesw.com> <7371AD47-5D28-4F7C-8B1D-7BB6FEBBC1D9@sweattechnologies.com> <55D68937.8040301@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <49326D26-C38D-4D7E-B110-0783D7B067F2@techstrategies.com.au> If I send that to a PHP script on one of my servers, I receive the JSON data correctly from LC7 in the PHP script. I will just run it against LC6 and make sure it is identical. If you want, you can post to my PHP script and then we can see how it compares between the two versions. If it works there, it may be an issue with server you are posting to or the way that the PHP script is trying to read the data. Probably best if you send me a direct e-mail if you want to do that. > On 21 Aug 2015, at 12:13 pm, J. Landman Gay wrote: > > Here's a test. This posts just fine in LC 6.x but fails in 7.0.6 and 7.1rc1. > > Make a field with this in it: > > [{"Meals":"Yes","Purpose":"Business"}] > > Now put this into a button or card script: > > constant kServerURL = "https://www.domain.com/results.php" --### use a valid URL here > > > command sendToServer > if the version < 7 then > put fld 1 into tData > put "json=" before tData > else > put textEncode(fld 1,"UTF8") into tData > put textEncode("json=",UTF8) before tData > end if > post tData to kServerURL > put it into tResponse > put the result into tErr > breakpoint -- so you can see it > end sendToServer > > If someone can test this against a simple echo PHP maybe it will tell us something. The real server returns empty in LC 7 and "OK" in LC 6. > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From peterwawood at gmail.com Thu Aug 20 22:59:41 2015 From: peterwawood at gmail.com (Peter W A Wood) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 10:59:41 +0800 Subject: JSON, URL-encode, and UTF-8 In-Reply-To: <55D68937.8040301@hyperactivesw.com> References: <55D22AD6.60203@hyperactivesw.com> <735102C1-7509-4F51-9B45-1F0FE4722712@sweattechnologies.com> <55D24A21.9040807@hyperactivesw.com> <7E1F2A8E-B754-44A8-A506-85E8EA9987C2@sweattechnologies.com> <55D64C6E.7000607@hyperactivesw.com> <7371AD47-5D28-4F7C-8B1D-7BB6FEBBC1D9@sweattechnologies.com> <55D68937.8040301@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Jacque > On 21 Aug 2015, at 10:13, J. Landman Gay wrote: > > Here's a test. This posts just fine in LC 6.x but fails in 7.0.6 and 7.1rc1. > > Make a field with this in it: > > [{"Meals":"Yes","Purpose":"Business"}] > > Now put this into a button or card script: > > constant kServerURL = "https://www.domain.com/results.php " --### use a valid URL here > > > command sendToServer > if the version < 7 then > put fld 1 into tData > put "json=" before tData > else > put textEncode(fld 1,"UTF8") into tData > put textEncode("json=",UTF8) before tData > end if > post tData to kServerURL > put it into tResponse > put the result into tErr > breakpoint -- so you can see it > end sendToServer > > If someone can test this against a simple echo PHP maybe it will tell us something. The real server returns empty in LC 7 and "OK" in LC 6. This works fine in LiveCode 7.0.3. I?ll download 7.1RC1 and see if it works there too. Peter From peterwawood at gmail.com Thu Aug 20 23:23:57 2015 From: peterwawood at gmail.com (Peter W A Wood) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 11:23:57 +0800 Subject: JSON, URL-encode, and UTF-8 In-Reply-To: References: <55D22AD6.60203@hyperactivesw.com> <735102C1-7509-4F51-9B45-1F0FE4722712@sweattechnologies.com> <55D24A21.9040807@hyperactivesw.com> <7E1F2A8E-B754-44A8-A506-85E8EA9987C2@sweattechnologies.com> <55D64C6E.7000607@hyperactivesw.com> <7371AD47-5D28-4F7C-8B1D-7BB6FEBBC1D9@sweattechnologies.com> <55D68937.8040301@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <67CBB79E-1DE3-4FFB-A0C2-5DA54590B92F@gmail.com> Jacque > > This works fine in LiveCode 7.0.3. I?ll download 7.1RC1 and see if it works there too. Apart from the difference in LiveCode versions, there is one other difference that may be significant. I am using HTTP on my machine not HTTPS. There have been some bugs in LiveCode 7 HTTPS support. Is it possible for you to run your test using HTTP to access your client?s server? Regards Peter From charles at techstrategies.com.au Thu Aug 20 23:25:16 2015 From: charles at techstrategies.com.au (Charles Warwick) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 13:25:16 +1000 Subject: arrow keys in datagrid In-Reply-To: References: <66FF4C2E-3754-48FC-A5FD-B03A36A9A10D@techstrategies.com.au> <285CB955-C38F-44F3-A1C1-53A528BC2E46@gmail.com> Message-ID: <40B78BE4-5271-4C24-8C2E-70572EA90DD1@techstrategies.com.au> That is odd? I have tried this on both Windows and Mac, using LC 6.7.6 and it works without any code. What version are you using? > On 21 Aug 2015, at 12:48 pm, Mike Bonner wrote: > > Strange. For me, the arrow keys don't work unless I have the empty handler > in there. (I was going to write a quicky to do the job, but when I add the > empty, poof. It works) > > On Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 7:30 PM, William Humphrey > wrote: > >> No that simple test did not work for me. Tomorrow I will try with a >> different version of livecode. >> >> Brevity and errors in this email probably the result of being sent by a >> mobile device. >> >>> On Aug 20, 2015, at 9:13 PM, Charles Warwick < >> charles at techstrategies.com.au> wrote: >>> >>> I use data grids in a lot of applications and the arrow keys always work? >>> >>> I just opened up LC 6.7.5, dragged in a data grid, went to its property >> inspector and added some data in the ?contents? tab? >>> >>> Going to ?run? mode, I can select a row and move up and down with the >> arrow keys?. >>> >>> Does a simple test like that work for you? >>> >>>> On 21 Aug 2015, at 11:06 am, william humphrey < >> bill at bluewatermaritime.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> I tried that. It didn't solve the problem. What's even weirder is I >> seem to >>>> remember that the datagrid used to work with arrow keys. I made a test >>>> stack to be sure it was nothing else in my work that could be causing >> the >>>> problem. Your suggestion didn't work there either. >>>> >>>> This is Livecode 6.7.4 >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 8:53 PM, Mike Bonner >> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> on arrowkey >>>>> >>>>> end arrowkey >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> http://www.bluewatermaritime.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From charles at techstrategies.com.au Thu Aug 20 23:30:38 2015 From: charles at techstrategies.com.au (Charles Warwick) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 13:30:38 +1000 Subject: JSON, URL-encode, and UTF-8 In-Reply-To: <67CBB79E-1DE3-4FFB-A0C2-5DA54590B92F@gmail.com> References: <55D22AD6.60203@hyperactivesw.com> <735102C1-7509-4F51-9B45-1F0FE4722712@sweattechnologies.com> <55D24A21.9040807@hyperactivesw.com> <7E1F2A8E-B754-44A8-A506-85E8EA9987C2@sweattechnologies.com> <55D64C6E.7000607@hyperactivesw.com> <7371AD47-5D28-4F7C-8B1D-7BB6FEBBC1D9@sweattechnologies.com> <55D68937.8040301@hyperactivesw.com> <67CBB79E-1DE3-4FFB-A0C2-5DA54590B92F@gmail.com> Message-ID: That script works here with HTTPS, I am guessing there is something else specific about the configuration. > On 21 Aug 2015, at 1:23 pm, Peter W A Wood wrote: > > Jacque > >> >> This works fine in LiveCode 7.0.3. I?ll download 7.1RC1 and see if it works there too. > > Apart from the difference in LiveCode versions, there is one other difference that may be significant. I am using HTTP on my machine not HTTPS. There have been some bugs in LiveCode 7 HTTPS support. Is it possible for you to run your test using HTTP to access your client?s server? > > Regards > > Peter > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Aug 20 23:32:43 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 22:32:43 -0500 Subject: JSON, URL-encode, and UTF-8 In-Reply-To: <67CBB79E-1DE3-4FFB-A0C2-5DA54590B92F@gmail.com> References: <55D22AD6.60203@hyperactivesw.com> <735102C1-7509-4F51-9B45-1F0FE4722712@sweattechnologies.com> <55D24A21.9040807@hyperactivesw.com> <7E1F2A8E-B754-44A8-A506-85E8EA9987C2@sweattechnologies.com> <55D64C6E.7000607@hyperactivesw.com> <7371AD47-5D28-4F7C-8B1D-7BB6FEBBC1D9@sweattechnologies.com> <55D68937.8040301@hyperactivesw.com> <67CBB79E-1DE3-4FFB-A0C2-5DA54590B92F@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55D69BDB.5070801@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/20/2015 10:23 PM, Peter W A Wood wrote: > Jacque > >> >> This works fine in LiveCode 7.0.3. I?ll download 7.1RC1 and see if >> it works there too. > > Apart from the difference in LiveCode versions, there is one other > difference that may be significant. I am using HTTP on my machine not > HTTPS. There have been some bugs in LiveCode 7 HTTPS support. Is it > possible for you to run your test using HTTP to access your client?s > server? I'd thought of that too. I'll ask the PHP guy to set up an http URL. The other difference is the UTF8 encoding, but it's my understanding that servers always expect to receive that. Thanks very much to you and Charles for your tests. I agree with Charles that it may indicate there is something wrong with the PHP script. If I give him the simple echo script that you posted here, is that a good test? -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Aug 20 23:50:27 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 22:50:27 -0500 Subject: JSON, URL-encode, and UTF-8 In-Reply-To: References: <55D22AD6.60203@hyperactivesw.com> <735102C1-7509-4F51-9B45-1F0FE4722712@sweattechnologies.com> <55D24A21.9040807@hyperactivesw.com> <7E1F2A8E-B754-44A8-A506-85E8EA9987C2@sweattechnologies.com> <55D64C6E.7000607@hyperactivesw.com> <7371AD47-5D28-4F7C-8B1D-7BB6FEBBC1D9@sweattechnologies.com> <55D68937.8040301@hyperactivesw.com> <67CBB79E-1DE3-4FFB-A0C2-5DA54590B92F@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55D6A003.3070701@hyperactivesw.com> Now I don't know what to try next. :( But I appreciate your help. This is a weird one. Is your PHP script like the one Peter posted? On 8/20/2015 10:30 PM, Charles Warwick wrote: > That script works here with HTTPS, I am guessing there is something else specific about the configuration. > >> On 21 Aug 2015, at 1:23 pm, Peter W A Wood wrote: >> >> Jacque >> >>> >>> This works fine in LiveCode 7.0.3. I?ll download 7.1RC1 and see if it works there too. >> >> Apart from the difference in LiveCode versions, there is one other difference that may be significant. I am using HTTP on my machine not HTTPS. There have been some bugs in LiveCode 7 HTTPS support. Is it possible for you to run your test using HTTP to access your client?s server? >> >> Regards >> >> Peter >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From peterwawood at gmail.com Thu Aug 20 23:51:54 2015 From: peterwawood at gmail.com (Peter W A Wood) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 11:51:54 +0800 Subject: JSON, URL-encode, and UTF-8 In-Reply-To: <55D69BDB.5070801@hyperactivesw.com> References: <55D22AD6.60203@hyperactivesw.com> <735102C1-7509-4F51-9B45-1F0FE4722712@sweattechnologies.com> <55D24A21.9040807@hyperactivesw.com> <7E1F2A8E-B754-44A8-A506-85E8EA9987C2@sweattechnologies.com> <55D64C6E.7000607@hyperactivesw.com> <7371AD47-5D28-4F7C-8B1D-7BB6FEBBC1D9@sweattechnologies.com> <55D68937.8040301@hyperactivesw.com> <67CBB79E-1DE3-4FFB-A0C2-5DA54590B92F@gmail.com> <55D69BDB.5070801@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Jacque > On 21 Aug 2015, at 11:32, J. Landman Gay wrote: > > I'd thought of that too. I'll ask the PHP guy to set up an http URL. I don?t think it is a problem with HTTPS. With Google and Stack overflow?s help, I found this website - http://httpbin.org - you can send a POST request to https://httpbin.org/post and it will return the POST data to you (in JSON). I ran your test against both the http:// and https:// URLs and both worked. > The other difference is the UTF8 encoding, but it's my understanding that servers always expect to receive that. I don?t think that all servers expect to receive UTF-8. The character encoding can be specified in configuration files. > Thanks very much to you and Charles for your tests. I agree with Charles that it may indicate there is something wrong with the PHP script. If I give him the simple echo script that you posted here, is that a good test? It is possible but this may be more useful: PHP: It will return the POST data received by PHP. For example: LiveCode Message Box: put textEncode("{ " & quote & "?" & quote & ": 1}", "UTF-8") into tJSON put "json=" before tJSON post tJSON to URL "http://localhost/jacque.php" put textDecode(it, "UTF-8") This is what it returns: array(1) { ["json"]=> string(10) "{ "?": 1}" } Hope this helps. Peter PS I?m no PHP programmer. From bonnmike at gmail.com Fri Aug 21 01:34:23 2015 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 23:34:23 -0600 Subject: arrow keys in datagrid In-Reply-To: <40B78BE4-5271-4C24-8C2E-70572EA90DD1@techstrategies.com.au> References: <66FF4C2E-3754-48FC-A5FD-B03A36A9A10D@techstrategies.com.au> <285CB955-C38F-44F3-A1C1-53A528BC2E46@gmail.com> <40B78BE4-5271-4C24-8C2E-70572EA90DD1@techstrategies.com.au> Message-ID: 7.0.6 on windows 10 here. On Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 9:25 PM, Charles Warwick < charles at techstrategies.com.au> wrote: > That is odd? I have tried this on both Windows and Mac, using LC 6.7.6 > and it works without any code. > > What version are you using? > > > On 21 Aug 2015, at 12:48 pm, Mike Bonner wrote: > > > > Strange. For me, the arrow keys don't work unless I have the empty > handler > > in there. (I was going to write a quicky to do the job, but when I add > the > > empty, poof. It works) > > > > On Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 7:30 PM, William Humphrey > > wrote: > > > >> No that simple test did not work for me. Tomorrow I will try with a > >> different version of livecode. > >> > >> Brevity and errors in this email probably the result of being sent by a > >> mobile device. > >> > >>> On Aug 20, 2015, at 9:13 PM, Charles Warwick < > >> charles at techstrategies.com.au> wrote: > >>> > >>> I use data grids in a lot of applications and the arrow keys always > work? > >>> > >>> I just opened up LC 6.7.5, dragged in a data grid, went to its property > >> inspector and added some data in the ?contents? tab? > >>> > >>> Going to ?run? mode, I can select a row and move up and down with the > >> arrow keys?. > >>> > >>> Does a simple test like that work for you? > >>> > >>>> On 21 Aug 2015, at 11:06 am, william humphrey < > >> bill at bluewatermaritime.com> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> I tried that. It didn't solve the problem. What's even weirder is I > >> seem to > >>>> remember that the datagrid used to work with arrow keys. I made a test > >>>> stack to be sure it was nothing else in my work that could be causing > >> the > >>>> problem. Your suggestion didn't work there either. > >>>> > >>>> This is Livecode 6.7.4 > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> On Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 8:53 PM, Mike Bonner > >> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> on arrowkey > >>>>> > >>>>> end arrowkey > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> http://www.bluewatermaritime.com > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> use-livecode mailing list > >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> use-livecode mailing list > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From peterwawood at gmail.com Fri Aug 21 03:20:25 2015 From: peterwawood at gmail.com (Peter W A Wood) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 15:20:25 +0800 Subject: JSON, URL-encode, and UTF-8 In-Reply-To: References: <55D22AD6.60203@hyperactivesw.com> <735102C1-7509-4F51-9B45-1F0FE4722712@sweattechnologies.com> <55D24A21.9040807@hyperactivesw.com> <7E1F2A8E-B754-44A8-A506-85E8EA9987C2@sweattechnologies.com> <55D64C6E.7000607@hyperactivesw.com> <7371AD47-5D28-4F7C-8B1D-7BB6FEBBC1D9@sweattechnologies.com> <55D68937.8040301@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: > On 21 Aug 2015, at 10:59, Peter W A Wood wrote: > > Jacque > >> On 21 Aug 2015, at 10:13, J. Landman Gay > wrote: >> >> Here's a test. This posts just fine in LC 6.x but fails in 7.0.6 and 7.1rc1. >> >> Make a field with this in it: >> >> [{"Meals":"Yes","Purpose":"Business"}] >> >> Now put this into a button or card script: >> >> constant kServerURL = "https://www.domain.com/results.php " --### use a valid URL here >> >> >> command sendToServer >> if the version < 7 then >> put fld 1 into tData >> put "json=" before tData >> else >> put textEncode(fld 1,"UTF8") into tData >> put textEncode("json=",UTF8) before tData >> end if >> post tData to kServerURL >> put it into tResponse >> put the result into tErr >> breakpoint -- so you can see it >> end sendToServer >> >> If someone can test this against a simple echo PHP maybe it will tell us something. The real server returns empty in LC 7 and "OK" in LC 6. > > This works fine in LiveCode 7.0.3. I?ll download 7.1RC1 and see if it works there too. > > Peter > It also works on LiveCode 7.1 RC1 ? which took me hours to download :-( Regards Peter From charles at techstrategies.com.au Fri Aug 21 03:35:17 2015 From: charles at techstrategies.com.au (Charles Warwick) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 17:35:17 +1000 Subject: arrow keys in datagrid In-Reply-To: References: <66FF4C2E-3754-48FC-A5FD-B03A36A9A10D@techstrategies.com.au> <285CB955-C38F-44F3-A1C1-53A528BC2E46@gmail.com> <40B78BE4-5271-4C24-8C2E-70572EA90DD1@techstrategies.com.au> Message-ID: <91C49DDB-07F1-4E8F-BC0D-5765AD5BC941@techstrategies.com.au> Hmmm? Windows 10 might be the difference, I don?t have that version to test against. I usually use Mac, and only have an old Win XP box that I test with. Both LC 6.7.6 and LC 7.1rc1 act the same way for me. > On 21 Aug 2015, at 3:34 pm, Mike Bonner wrote: > > 7.0.6 on windows 10 here. > > On Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 9:25 PM, Charles Warwick < > charles at techstrategies.com.au> wrote: > >> That is odd? I have tried this on both Windows and Mac, using LC 6.7.6 >> and it works without any code. >> >> What version are you using? >> >>> On 21 Aug 2015, at 12:48 pm, Mike Bonner wrote: >>> >>> Strange. For me, the arrow keys don't work unless I have the empty >> handler >>> in there. (I was going to write a quicky to do the job, but when I add >> the >>> empty, poof. It works) >>> >>> On Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 7:30 PM, William Humphrey >>> wrote: >>> >>>> No that simple test did not work for me. Tomorrow I will try with a >>>> different version of livecode. >>>> >>>> Brevity and errors in this email probably the result of being sent by a >>>> mobile device. >>>> >>>>> On Aug 20, 2015, at 9:13 PM, Charles Warwick < >>>> charles at techstrategies.com.au> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I use data grids in a lot of applications and the arrow keys always >> work? >>>>> >>>>> I just opened up LC 6.7.5, dragged in a data grid, went to its property >>>> inspector and added some data in the ?contents? tab? >>>>> >>>>> Going to ?run? mode, I can select a row and move up and down with the >>>> arrow keys?. >>>>> >>>>> Does a simple test like that work for you? >>>>> >>>>>> On 21 Aug 2015, at 11:06 am, william humphrey < >>>> bill at bluewatermaritime.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I tried that. It didn't solve the problem. What's even weirder is I >>>> seem to >>>>>> remember that the datagrid used to work with arrow keys. I made a test >>>>>> stack to be sure it was nothing else in my work that could be causing >>>> the >>>>>> problem. Your suggestion didn't work there either. >>>>>> >>>>>> This is Livecode 6.7.4 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 8:53 PM, Mike Bonner >>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> on arrowkey >>>>>>> >>>>>>> end arrowkey >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> http://www.bluewatermaritime.com >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at smarttsoftware.co.uk Fri Aug 21 03:38:44 2015 From: paul at smarttsoftware.co.uk (Paul Richards) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 07:38:44 +0000 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: References: <55D41281.6090501@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Not a CMS builder, but a drag & drop webpage builder - to quote "No coding & free" http://mobirise.com/ Paul :-) -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Scott Rossi Sent: 19 August 2015 16:42 To: LiveCode Mail List Subject: Re: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card Here we go: Just 3 minutes ago, I received a announcement from Webflow for their new visual CMS: https://webflow.com/cms Building without programming is a popular trend :-) Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design On 8/19/15, 8:35 AM, "Scott Rossi" wrote: >This kind of visual drag-and-drop programming UI has been done (and >will continue to be done) for decades, and works pretty well for simple logic. >The whole "build without writing code" concept is pretty big right now. >But visual programming becomes unwieldy and difficult to follow when >logic gets complex. And it's unlikely that a visual interface could >handle all the options provided by the LiveCode language. But for >simple projects, this could be useful for beginners, or when quickly building a stack. > >Apple's Automator has worked this way for years now, and Audio Hijack >on OS X is another app that recently employed a visual UI: >https://www.rogueamoeba.com/audiohijack/ > > >Regards, > >Scott Rossi >Creative Director >Tactile Media, UX/UI Design > > > > >On 8/19/15, 5:20 AM, "Roger Eller" wrote: > >>Speaking of workflows, we use a product called Automation Engine in >>our prepress shop. You may not think "programming" when you hear the >>word "prepress", but with AE, that is exactly what it is. We take >>business logic, and map it to tasks, loops, forks, file io, error handlers, etc. >>with a graphical workflow editor. Tasks are listed on the right, >>which you drag onto the workspace and arrange and connect them. Each >>task has properties you set by double-clicking to open a panel. This >>would be a slick way to build, or at least connect LC objects to their >>inputs/outputs/errors. Have a look at this short video. Ignore the >>stuff about artwork QC. >> >>I think a "modern" editor should be something like this... not VB6. >> >>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbnaqbH5QK8 >> >>~Roger >>On Aug 19, 2015 1:31 AM, "Richard Gaskin" >>wrote: >> >>> Richmond wrote: >>> >>> > My main 'beef' with an IDE of the VB6 type is that it blocks the >>> > desktop from view and doesn't seem good if one wants to rearrange >>> > where one's palettes sit on the screen. >>> > >>> > Things might prove a bit awkward if one wants to make a stack as >>> > big as one's desktop if one cannot shunt palettes around and about. >>> > >>> > Of course this is all about taste (meaning it's all in the mouth) >>> > so it would seem best, if an all-in-one IDE like the VB6 one is to >>> > be introduced to have it as one of 2 options. >>> >>> I believe it's more than about taste with LiveCode, it's about >>>workflow. >>> >>> LiveCode isn't like other languages, where working with controls is >>>little more than a drawing program because nothing there is LIVE >>>CODE. >>> >>> For us, it's less like building an app inside of an IDE as it is >>>running an IDE along side our apps. Our windows are separate >>>because they're real windows, not just inert proxies. >>> >>> I went into this in greater detail a couple months back: >>> >> > >>> >>> The Viewer widget needed for that UI will be very nice for us, but I >>>fear making an IDE based around it, as it would no longer be truly >>>LIVE CODE. >>> >>> -- >>> Richard Gaskin >>> Fourth World Systems >>> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the >>> Web ____________________________________________________________________ >>> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>use-livecode mailing list >>use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>subscription preferences: >>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > >_______________________________________________ >use-livecode mailing list >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From scott at tactilemedia.com Fri Aug 21 03:46:12 2015 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 00:46:12 -0700 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: References: <55D41281.6090501@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Sorry Paul, Mobirise is even out of beta and it's already obsolete: https://vimeo.com/127926346 Admittedly, it's not free. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design On 8/21/15, 12:38 AM, "Paul Richards" wrote: >Not a CMS builder, but a drag & drop webpage builder - to quote "No >coding & free" > >http://mobirise.com/ > >Paul :-) > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On >Behalf Of Scott Rossi >Sent: 19 August 2015 16:42 >To: LiveCode Mail List >Subject: Re: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card > >Here we go: Just 3 minutes ago, I received a announcement from Webflow >for their new visual CMS: >https://webflow.com/cms > >Building without programming is a popular trend :-) > >Regards, > >Scott Rossi >Creative Director >Tactile Media, UX/UI Design > > > > >On 8/19/15, 8:35 AM, "Scott Rossi" wrote: > >>This kind of visual drag-and-drop programming UI has been done (and >>will continue to be done) for decades, and works pretty well for simple >>logic. >>The whole "build without writing code" concept is pretty big right now. >>But visual programming becomes unwieldy and difficult to follow when >>logic gets complex. And it's unlikely that a visual interface could >>handle all the options provided by the LiveCode language. But for >>simple projects, this could be useful for beginners, or when quickly >>building a stack. >> >>Apple's Automator has worked this way for years now, and Audio Hijack >>on OS X is another app that recently employed a visual UI: >>https://www.rogueamoeba.com/audiohijack/ >> >> >>Regards, >> >>Scott Rossi >>Creative Director >>Tactile Media, UX/UI Design >> >> >> >> >>On 8/19/15, 5:20 AM, "Roger Eller" wrote: >> >>>Speaking of workflows, we use a product called Automation Engine in >>>our prepress shop. You may not think "programming" when you hear the >>>word "prepress", but with AE, that is exactly what it is. We take >>>business logic, and map it to tasks, loops, forks, file io, error >>>handlers, etc. >>>with a graphical workflow editor. Tasks are listed on the right, >>>which you drag onto the workspace and arrange and connect them. Each >>>task has properties you set by double-clicking to open a panel. This >>>would be a slick way to build, or at least connect LC objects to their >>>inputs/outputs/errors. Have a look at this short video. Ignore the >>>stuff about artwork QC. >>> >>>I think a "modern" editor should be something like this... not VB6. >>> >>>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbnaqbH5QK8 >>> >>>~Roger >>>On Aug 19, 2015 1:31 AM, "Richard Gaskin" >>>wrote: >>> >>>> Richmond wrote: >>>> >>>> > My main 'beef' with an IDE of the VB6 type is that it blocks the >>>> > desktop from view and doesn't seem good if one wants to rearrange >>>> > where one's palettes sit on the screen. >>>> > >>>> > Things might prove a bit awkward if one wants to make a stack as >>>> > big as one's desktop if one cannot shunt palettes around and about. >>>> > >>>> > Of course this is all about taste (meaning it's all in the mouth) >>>> > so it would seem best, if an all-in-one IDE like the VB6 one is to >>>> > be introduced to have it as one of 2 options. >>>> >>>> I believe it's more than about taste with LiveCode, it's about >>>>workflow. >>>> >>>> LiveCode isn't like other languages, where working with controls is >>>>little more than a drawing program because nothing there is LIVE >>>>CODE. >>>> >>>> For us, it's less like building an app inside of an IDE as it is >>>>running an IDE along side our apps. Our windows are separate >>>>because they're real windows, not just inert proxies. >>>> >>>> I went into this in greater detail a couple months back: >>>> >>> > >>>> >>>> The Viewer widget needed for that UI will be very nice for us, but I >>>>fear making an IDE based around it, as it would no longer be truly >>>>LIVE CODE. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Richard Gaskin >>>> Fourth World Systems >>>> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the >>>> Web >>>>____________________________________________________________________ >>>> Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>use-livecode mailing list >>>use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>subscription preferences: >>>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>use-livecode mailing list >>use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>subscription preferences: >>http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > >_______________________________________________ >use-livecode mailing list >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >_______________________________________________ >use-livecode mailing list >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From scott at tactilemedia.com Fri Aug 21 03:50:49 2015 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 00:50:49 -0700 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: References: <55D41281.6090501@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: That should have read "...ISN'T even out of beta..." Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design On 8/21/15, 12:46 AM, "Scott Rossi" wrote: >Sorry Paul, Mobirise is even out of beta and it's already obsolete: >https://vimeo.com/127926346 > > >Admittedly, it's not free. > From dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk Fri Aug 21 04:06:15 2015 From: dcragg at lacscentre.co.uk (Dave Cragg) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 09:06:15 +0100 Subject: JSON, URL-encode, and UTF-8 In-Reply-To: <55D67E86.1090509@hyperactivesw.com> References: <55D22AD6.60203@hyperactivesw.com> <735102C1-7509-4F51-9B45-1F0FE4722712@sweattechnologies.com> <55D24A21.9040807@hyperactivesw.com> <7E1F2A8E-B754-44A8-A506-85E8EA9987C2@sweattechnologies.com> <55D64C6E.7000607@hyperactivesw.com> <55D663C2.4090307@hyperactivesw.com> <5A619B10-DC44-465D-8AE5-7A5D5A4469A3@lacscentre.co.uk> <55D67E86.1090509@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: > On 21 Aug 2015, at 02:27, J. Landman Gay wrote: > > On 8/20/2015 6:45 PM, Dave Cragg wrote: >> What happens if you remove the httpHeader setting and also UrlEncode >> tData? > > Still errors I'm afraid. Instead of removing the httpHeaders setting, what if you set it to this? set the httpHeaders to "Content-Type: application/x-www-form-urlencoded" This is normally the default for post, but if you had set it to something else earlier, I was wondering whether the previous setting was still being used. From charles at techstrategies.com.au Fri Aug 21 04:07:11 2015 From: charles at techstrategies.com.au (Charles Warwick) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 18:07:11 +1000 Subject: JSON, URL-encode, and UTF-8 In-Reply-To: References: <55D22AD6.60203@hyperactivesw.com> <735102C1-7509-4F51-9B45-1F0FE4722712@sweattechnologies.com> <55D24A21.9040807@hyperactivesw.com> <7E1F2A8E-B754-44A8-A506-85E8EA9987C2@sweattechnologies.com> <55D64C6E.7000607@hyperactivesw.com> <7371AD47-5D28-4F7C-8B1D-7BB6FEBBC1D9@sweattechnologies.com> <55D68937.8040301@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: HI Peter, I did some testing with Jacque and found that her LC7 was sending the wrong content-type when posting to the PHP script. In case anyone is interested: It was using a content type of 'application/json? which would have made sense if the PHP script was written to accept the json data directly. However, it was expecting the POST data to be encoded in name/value format: variableA=valueA&variableB=valueB. In this case, it required the json data stored in a variable called json: i.e. json= Changing the headers as follows before the POST resolved the issue: set the httpHeaders to ?content-type: application/x-www-form-urlencoded" As I mentioned to Jacque, the json data itself needs to be urlEncoded. Cheers, Charles > On 21 Aug 2015, at 5:20 pm, Peter W A Wood wrote: > > >> On 21 Aug 2015, at 10:59, Peter W A Wood wrote: >> >> Jacque >> >>> On 21 Aug 2015, at 10:13, J. Landman Gay > wrote: >>> >>> Here's a test. This posts just fine in LC 6.x but fails in 7.0.6 and 7.1rc1. >>> >>> Make a field with this in it: >>> >>> [{"Meals":"Yes","Purpose":"Business"}] >>> >>> Now put this into a button or card script: >>> >>> constant kServerURL = "https://www.domain.com/results.php " --### use a valid URL here >>> >>> >>> command sendToServer >>> if the version < 7 then >>> put fld 1 into tData >>> put "json=" before tData >>> else >>> put textEncode(fld 1,"UTF8") into tData >>> put textEncode("json=",UTF8) before tData >>> end if >>> post tData to kServerURL >>> put it into tResponse >>> put the result into tErr >>> breakpoint -- so you can see it >>> end sendToServer >>> >>> If someone can test this against a simple echo PHP maybe it will tell us something. The real server returns empty in LC 7 and "OK" in LC 6. >> >> This works fine in LiveCode 7.0.3. I?ll download 7.1RC1 and see if it works there too. >> >> Peter >> > > It also works on LiveCode 7.1 RC1 ? which took me hours to download :-( > > Regards > > Peter > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at smarttsoftware.co.uk Fri Aug 21 04:13:16 2015 From: paul at smarttsoftware.co.uk (Paul Richards) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 08:13:16 +0000 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: References: <55D41281.6090501@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: :-( Thanks Scott, PageCloud certainly looks a great tool Paul -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Scott Rossi Sent: 21 August 2015 08:51 To: LiveCode Mail List Subject: Re: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card That should have read "...ISN'T even out of beta..." Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design On 8/21/15, 12:46 AM, "Scott Rossi" wrote: >Sorry Paul, Mobirise is even out of beta and it's already obsolete: >https://vimeo.com/127926346 > > >Admittedly, it's not free. > _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From peterwawood at gmail.com Fri Aug 21 04:20:58 2015 From: peterwawood at gmail.com (Peter W A Wood) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 16:20:58 +0800 Subject: JSON, URL-encode, and UTF-8 In-Reply-To: References: <55D22AD6.60203@hyperactivesw.com> <735102C1-7509-4F51-9B45-1F0FE4722712@sweattechnologies.com> <55D24A21.9040807@hyperactivesw.com> <7E1F2A8E-B754-44A8-A506-85E8EA9987C2@sweattechnologies.com> <55D64C6E.7000607@hyperactivesw.com> <7371AD47-5D28-4F7C-8B1D-7BB6FEBBC1D9@sweattechnologies.com> <55D68937.8040301@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: Hi Charles > On 21 Aug 2015, at 16:07, Charles Warwick wrote: > > HI Peter, > > I did some testing with Jacque and found that her LC7 was sending the wrong content-type when posting to the PHP script. > > In case anyone is interested: > > It was using a content type of 'application/json? which would have made sense if the PHP script was written to accept the json data directly. > > However, it was expecting the POST data to be encoded in name/value format: variableA=valueA&variableB=valueB. > > In this case, it required the json data stored in a variable called json: i.e. json= > > Changing the headers as follows before the POST resolved the issue: > > set the httpHeaders to ?content-type: application/x-www-form-urlencoded" > > As I mentioned to Jacque, the json data itself needs to be urlEncoded. > > Cheers, > > Charles Thanks for closing the loop. Cheers Peter From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Fri Aug 21 05:13:23 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 12:13:23 +0300 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: References: <55D41281.6090501@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <55D6EBB3.4010300@gmail.com> On 21/08/15 10:38, Paul Richards wrote: > Not a CMS builder, but a drag & drop webpage builder - to quote "No coding & free" > > http://mobirise.com/ > > Paul :-) > > All a bit too complicated for simple folk like me, I stick with KompoZer: http://kompozer.net/ Richmond. From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Fri Aug 21 05:47:23 2015 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 11:47:23 +0200 Subject: [OT] Copyrighting games? In-Reply-To: <8B18DE0B-7E63-41DC-9951-5F00C0E83FFC@pacifier.com> References: <55D4AE0E.30401@gmail.com><617fd5e48dcf3f46592c7936a64999a0@livecode.com><55D4B3A4.4000700@gmail.com> <55D4D364.4080304@economy-x-talk.com> <55D6784E.7030204@economy-x-talk.com> <8B18DE0B-7E63-41DC-9951-5F00C0E83FFC@pacifier.com> Message-ID: <55D6F3AB.4010507@economy-x-talk.com> Hi John, That "article" just makes a statement without any explanations. Terms like "actual expression or execution", "software concept" and "program logic" are rather vague. You can't copyright those, simple because you can't define them. A user interface, however, can be copyrighted if it is a creative expression by an artist. Probably, you can't copyright a GUI if you're just using Apple's or Microsoft's GUI components, but you can definitely copyright the visual components of a game and the logo's and icons in a utility window. That leaves algorithms and other trade secrets. For algorithms and other technologies, you can register a patent, but I believe Richmond didn't want to go that path. I strikes me that I have never seen any of those copyright registration websites giving examples of their services being successfully accepted as proof in court. -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer KvK: 50277553 Installer Maker for LiveCode: http://qery.us/468 Buy my new book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner" http://qery.us/3fi LiveCode on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/runrev/ On 8/21/2015 03:39, JB wrote: > I was reading an article on how to copyright software > > http://www.wikihow.com/Copyright-Software > > It talks about how to submit your software code > and what to do if it contains trade secrets. And > then it says this, > > ? Your copyright extends only to the actual expression or execution of the > software application. It does not protect the software concept, program logic or > algorithms, or the layout of the user interface. > > > It sounds like your trade secrets are not protected. > > John Balgenorth > > > On Aug 20, 2015, at 6:01 PM, Mark Schonewille wrote: > >> I didn't say "do nothing". I said: don't spend your money on something that's essentially free. >> >> -- >> Best regards, >> >> Mark Schonewille >> >> Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering >> Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com >> Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer >> KvK: 50277553 >> >> Installer Maker for LiveCode: >> http://qery.us/468 >> >> Buy my new book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner" http://qery.us/3fi >> >> LiveCode on Facebook: >> https://www.facebook.com/groups/runrev/ >> >> On 8/20/2015 17:28, Lynn Fredricks wrote: >>>> Since nobody needs to pay money to "copyright" a work, or in >>>> fact nobody NEEDS to "copyright" a work, because it already >>>> is copyrighted, I'd say this website is merely a way to lose >>>> some money. >>> >>> You can always do nothing. Registration provides additional benefits though. >>> You can find the equivalent on a lot of sites but this article is short and >>> clear about the benefits of registration: >>> >>> http://www.ohiostartuplaw.com/top-5-benefits-of-copyright-registration/ >>> >>> The NOLO legal guides are pretty good for lightweight legal stuff. >>> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> Lynn Fredricks >>> Paradigma Software >>> http://www.paradigmasoft.com >>> >>> Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From smudge.andy at googlemail.com Fri Aug 21 06:07:43 2015 From: smudge.andy at googlemail.com (AndyP) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 03:07:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: <55D6EBB3.4010300@gmail.com> References: <43CD8158-FDFC-4DB0-A695-D8E8832C2E92@gmail.com> <1439935075.55d3aa63da208@www.server101.com> <55D41281.6090501@fourthworld.com> <55D6EBB3.4010300@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1440151663095-4695469.post@n4.nabble.com> I've been playing around with IDE and have built a simple wrapper stack which just pulls in the existing LC IDE stacks into the wrapper, copies the LC IDE menu and has a few extra buttons to turn the standard LC Tools and Menu pallets on and off. No mods are required to the existing IDE stacks and the wrapper takes care of resizing etc. Preview image When Im happy with it Ill make it available for hacking Open source. ----- Andy Piddock My software never has bugs. It just develops random features. Copy the new cloud space, get your free 15GB space now: Get Copy Script editor Themer for LC http://2108.co.uk PointandSee is a FREE simple but full featured under cursor colour picker / finder. http://www.pointandsee.co.uk - made with LiveCode -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Open-Source-Kickstarter-Report-Card-tp4695018p4695469.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From palcibiades-first at yahoo.co.uk Fri Aug 21 06:23:04 2015 From: palcibiades-first at yahoo.co.uk (Peter Alcibiades) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 03:23:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [OT] Linux 32-bit to 64-bit In-Reply-To: <55D4D05B.7060103@gmail.com> References: <55D4D05B.7060103@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1440152584240-4695470.post@n4.nabble.com> I have often done a fresh install of a new distribution while leaving the /home partition as was and only had minor issues. The issue is that the menu will probably need some manual adjustment as lots of uninstalled packages may be linked to. But this was very minor. The nightmare with upgrades recently is not clean installs and /home, but the insane things Gnome has done to the desktop and the even madder things KDE has done to Kontact, which makes upgrading the system a real issue. The solution for Kontact is Cherrytree and Claws. If you are doing a clean install you can't pin Kontact to the current version, is the problem. The solution to Gnome is Mate. I have only twice done this going from 32 bit to 64 bit. It was no different than in the other cases, so I don't think that installing a 64 bit version while keeping the /home partition that dates to the 32 bit version is particularly problematic. I would take the / partition to EXT4 if doing a clean install. Sooner or later you will want to take the /home partition there too. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/OT-Linux-32-bit-to-64-bit-tp4695357p4695470.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From ali at runrev.com Fri Aug 21 09:01:52 2015 From: ali at runrev.com (Ali Lloyd) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 13:01:52 +0000 Subject: Script Editor future (was Re: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card) In-Reply-To: <55D5F6F0.2060503@fourthworld.com> References: <55D5F6F0.2060503@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Aug 2015 at 16:49, Richard Gaskin wrote: > With the IDE things are even better: it's already written in a > high-level scripting language. Why not use LiveCode Script? > > If we can't build a good text editor in LiveCode, what are any of us > doing here? > > That is a false dichotomy - we certainly can build a good text editor in LiveCode Script, but we can probably build a better one using LiveCode Builder and LiveCode Script . The field code in the engine is extremely complicated, even after all the good work Fraser has done on it. On top of that the script editor in the IDE is a highly specialised stack, there is code all the way through its objects, and it is fairly inexorably intertwined with the debugger. There will be a field widget at some point, that is pretty much known. And it will be better than the existing field object. The script editor is probably the most important field in the IDE. So we will be using a field widget as the basis for the script editor. That much, to me at least, seems inevitable. As a result the script editor stack will be more modular, manageable and robust. Note this is not the official opinion of LiveCode, just my take on it as the person who has been primarily tasked with IDE development for 8.0. I don't think that the current script editor should be neglected, and if I end up being assigned to that task I will attempt it with equal gusto. I'm definitely interested in compromise here, and would be happy if we could reach some sort of agreement as to what goals are appropriate for the current script editor. And I would be very interested to hear opinions from others on this topic. From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Fri Aug 21 09:30:40 2015 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 09:30:40 -0400 Subject: Script Editor future (was Re: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card) In-Reply-To: References: <55D5F6F0.2060503@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: There are SO MANY things that can, and, in my opinion, should happen with a/the script editor, that I often wonder if instead of working on one, effort should instead be spent on a BBEdit/TextWrangler plugin or some method for leveraging someone else's text editor. Bootstrapping is an unbelievably powerful technique, though, so the things that WE can do to/with the existing LC script editor in 8 may make all of that discussion moot. On Fri, Aug 21, 2015 at 9:01 AM, Ali Lloyd wrote: > On Thu, 20 Aug 2015 at 16:49, Richard Gaskin > wrote: > > > With the IDE things are even better: it's already written in a > > high-level scripting language. Why not use LiveCode Script? > > > > If we can't build a good text editor in LiveCode, what are any of us > > doing here? > > > > > > That is a false dichotomy - we certainly can build a good text editor in > LiveCode Script, but we can probably build a better one using LiveCode > Builder and LiveCode Script . The field code in the engine is extremely > complicated, even after all the good work Fraser has done on it. On top of > that the script editor in the IDE is a highly specialised stack, there is > code all the way through its objects, and it is fairly inexorably > intertwined with the debugger. > > > There will be a field widget at some point, that is pretty much known. And > it will be better than the existing field object. The script editor is > probably the most important field in the IDE. So we will be using a field > widget as the basis for the script editor. That much, to me at least, seems > inevitable. As a result the script editor stack will be more modular, > manageable and robust. > > > Note this is not the official opinion of LiveCode, just my take on it as > the person who has been primarily tasked with IDE development for 8.0. I > don't think that the current script editor should be neglected, and if I > end up being assigned to that task I will attempt it with equal gusto. I'm > definitely interested in compromise here, and would be happy if we could > reach some sort of agreement as to what goals are appropriate for the > current script editor. And I would be very interested to hear opinions from > others on this topic. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From revolution at derbrill.de Fri Aug 21 09:47:15 2015 From: revolution at derbrill.de (Malte Brill) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 15:47:15 +0200 Subject: Script Editor future (was Re: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A7C1AAF-8EB4-4630-8E14-5748A88ACCD5@derbrill.de> Ali Lloyd wrote: > I don't think that the current script editor should be neglected I think that depends on when 7 will be EOLed. If you plan to have 8 stable by the end of the year and you plan to have a new Script editor there, wasting resources might be indeed a waste. Mike Kerner wrote: > that I often wonder if instead of working on one, effort should instead be spent on a BBEdit/TextWrangler plugin or some method for leveraging someone else's text editor. +1, just eclipse? ;-). Still the IDE will have to come with a script editor that works out of the box. Richard Gaskin wrote: > If we can't build a good text editor in LiveCode, what are any of us > doing here? Well, for me it is not so much about the text editor. It wouldn?t be the first textEditor I would be scripting. My problem would be the friggin debugger? On the other hand, there is a very powerful script editor out in the wild, namely glx which I believe Mark Wieder is maintaining. It has its glitches, but is not too bad. I just recall that it had a problem hiliting the script at the place it errored when it errored. That had me give up on that one. (picky, I know) Besides that, I think glx is as far as one can go with a scripted editor. :-) Best, Malte From pmbrig at gmail.com Fri Aug 21 10:28:05 2015 From: pmbrig at gmail.com (Peter M. Brigham) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 10:28:05 -0400 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: <55D5F6F0.2060503@fourthworld.com> References: <55D5F6F0.2060503@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <8C1C5F90-BCDD-4CE3-BD34-89FB5CC7672B@gmail.com> On Aug 20, 2015, at 11:49 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Ali Lloyd wrote: >> I doubt we will be writing a whole new script editor from scratch in one >> go. > > Wise, for all the reasons Joel talks about here (good link, Scott): > This is why I'm still using LC 5.5 and my practice management stack, with over 38,000 lines of script and 48 substacks. I've been developing it for 24 years (in HC then LC). Much of the scripting is a bit kludgy and I wince at some of the code I wrote when I had less experience, but I have refrained from cleaning things up (mostly) because it just plain works. And I can't afford to have it stop working, since my livelihood depends on it. -- Peter Peter M. Brigham pmbrig at gmail.com http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig From rjearp99 at gmail.com Fri Aug 21 10:33:05 2015 From: rjearp99 at gmail.com (Earp Robert J.) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 07:33:05 -0700 Subject: Two great tips, one fantastic source... Message-ID: <14878725-D2C4-4527-ACDE-503FB5412E3E@gmail.com> I?ve benefitted from the LC lists so many times over the years whilst (embarrassingly) not being able to contribute much due to other far more capable bods than me answering questions almost instantly. To all of those, many thanks, but you hold a secret I cannot find an answer to, how the hell do you find the time to do that !! In any event, I recently came across what I think are two great tips from a non-LC list source that I thought was worth passing on. Now, having said that I am sure the majority of folks will yawn and say, I know that, but on the off-chance I can help somebody, read on. The source is Gary Rosenburgh who regularly publishes all sorts of OS X and iOS tips via www.macmost.com Two recent posts caught my eye as they will save a lot of time for myself and colleagues. The first is learning that I can share a screen with somebody when using Messages. If you are chatting from Mac to Mac using the Messages app you can click on the Details button at the top and select the screen sharing button (two rectangles) to share your screen or have the other party share theirs. You can use this to help a less computer savvy relative or friend with a problem, or just to let them observe a project you are working on. I know you can do this with other apps such as Skype, but Messages seems to be so robust and easy to use. The second is finding out there is a fantastic built-in app called Digital Color Meter in OS X residing in my Utilities folder that I never knew existed, and which does an awful lot of useful stuff from showing the RGB/Hex/etc, values of any pixel being displayed on any screen, to the mouseLoc. http://macmost.com/digital-color-meter.html tells you a lot more. I subscribed to the macmost.com Newsletter a while ago and have never regretted it especially as I don?t think I?ve ever received one of Gary?s monthly posts without learning something interesting, even if it is only one of the snippets in the This Week in Mac: section. All the very best from a continuing sunny British Columbia and I hope this has helped at least one reader ;-) Bob Earp White Rock, British Columbia. From sritcp at gmail.com Fri Aug 21 11:14:48 2015 From: sritcp at gmail.com (Sri) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 08:14:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Two great tips, one fantastic source... In-Reply-To: <14878725-D2C4-4527-ACDE-503FB5412E3E@gmail.com> References: <14878725-D2C4-4527-ACDE-503FB5412E3E@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1440170088931-4695476.post@n4.nabble.com> Very useful. Thank you, Bob! Regards, Sri -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Two-great-tips-one-fantastic-source-tp4695475p4695476.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From lfredricks at proactive-intl.com Fri Aug 21 11:30:04 2015 From: lfredricks at proactive-intl.com (Lynn Fredricks) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 08:30:04 -0700 Subject: [OT] Copyrighting games? In-Reply-To: <55D6784E.7030204@economy-x-talk.com> References: <55D4AE0E.30401@gmail.com><617fd5e48dcf3f46592c7936a64999a0@livecode.com><55D4B3A4.4000700@gmail.com><55D4D364.4080304@economy-x-talk.com> <55D6784E.7030204@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: > I didn't say "do nothing". I said: don't spend your > money on something that's essentially free. Copyright registration is not required to be afforded some protections under copyright law, but it affords _additional_ protection under US law that makes your rights easier to enforce. The basic protections you do get for free and upon creation of your work - which is why you "do nothing" after creation of your work. Best regards, Lynn Fredricks Paradigma Software http://www.paradigmasoft.com Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server From brahma at hindu.org Fri Aug 21 11:42:52 2015 From: brahma at hindu.org (Brahmanathaswami) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 05:42:52 -1000 Subject: Copy and Paste from LiveCode text fld in Mobile In-Reply-To: References: <55D3966B.10303@hindu.org> Message-ID: <55D746FC.6080700@hindu.org> Hmmm... I'm using a LiveCode field. OK... Understood... I'll look into that. Swasti Astu, Be Well! Brahmanathaswami Kauai's Hindu Monastery www.HimalayanAcademy.com Scott Rossi wrote: > Are you using a native mobile input control (text field)? A LiveCode > field by itself won't offer this. Note that there are two input controls: > a single line and multi-line. > > Regards, > > Scott Rossi > Creative Director > Tactile Media, UX/UI Design From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Fri Aug 21 11:51:40 2015 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 17:51:40 +0200 Subject: [OT] Copyrighting games? In-Reply-To: References: <55D4AE0E.30401@gmail.com><617fd5e48dcf3f46592c7936a64999a0@livecode.com><55D4B3A4.4000700@gmail.com><55D4D364.4080304@economy-x-talk.com> <55D6784E.7030204@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: <55D7490C.4020905@economy-x-talk.com> Lynn, you twist my words. I don't like that. I didn't say "do nothing". I said: you can do a few things that don't cost you money and those copyright registration websites don't provide you with any additional protection whatsoever, so don't pay for their services. -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer KvK: 50277553 Installer Maker for LiveCode: http://qery.us/468 Buy my new book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner" http://qery.us/3fi LiveCode on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/runrev/ On 8/21/2015 17:30, Lynn Fredricks wrote: >> I didn't say "do nothing". I said: don't spend your >> money on something that's essentially free. > > Copyright registration is not required to be afforded some protections under > copyright law, but it affords _additional_ protection under US law that > makes your rights easier to enforce. > > The basic protections you do get for free and upon creation of your work - > which is why you "do nothing" after creation of your work. > > Best regards, > > Lynn Fredricks > Paradigma Software > http://www.paradigmasoft.com > > Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From lfredricks at proactive-intl.com Fri Aug 21 12:09:23 2015 From: lfredricks at proactive-intl.com (Lynn Fredricks) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 09:09:23 -0700 Subject: [OT] Copyrighting games? In-Reply-To: <55D7490C.4020905@economy-x-talk.com> References: <55D4AE0E.30401@gmail.com><617fd5e48dcf3f46592c7936a64999a0@livecode.com><55D4B3A4.4000700@gmail.com><55D4D364.4080304@economy-x-talk.com><55D6784E.7030204@economy-x-talk.com> <55D7490C.4020905@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: <0C4FCA4C8A9C43EEB527AC77B8795EEE@GATEWAY> > Lynn, you twist my words. I don't like that. > > I didn't say "do nothing". I said: you can do a few things > that don't cost you money and those copyright registration > websites don't provide you with any additional protection > whatsoever, so don't pay for their services. You are also creating an argument where there wasn't one. Take a happy break, its Friday ;-) At least with copyright (within the scope of US copyright), once something is fixed in medium the law applies. You do not have to do anything else to be afforded protections under the law - therefore, 'do nothing' because you are covered. If you want enhanced protection under the law, then you register. Trademarks work sort of in a similar way, though I wouldn't not rely on their similarities without doing research. Patents are a glue-huffing, frog in a blender nightmare. Get help. Best regards, Lynn Fredricks Paradigma Software http://www.paradigmasoft.com Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server From brahma at hindu.org Fri Aug 21 12:10:43 2015 From: brahma at hindu.org (Brahmanathaswami) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 06:10:43 -1000 Subject: STACKLE - RSRC for LC Stacks - Are U Interested? In-Reply-To: References: <55D4D87E.7090706@hindu.org> Message-ID: <55D74D83.1010301@hindu.org> FYI: Andre encouraged me to learn GIT... I already bought the GIT book.. went all the tutorials... was merrily pushing, fetching, pull, branching looking at diffs, what fun! for our LC server side (text only LC world) Very cool I actually enjoyed it... Hours later: no content is coming out the pipeline... I'm spending time inside a "platform toolbox" instead of building content. That's my first "beef" with these systems. They are great for software engineers, but those who use the platforms to actually deliver "stuff" i.e. "content engineers" need to be spending 98% of their time working on the "stuff" and not the platform itself. Subversion looks interesting.. but still Altuit's old Magic Carpet was simplicity perfecto. In fact I think there is a big of hiatus in the vision for the development of LiveCode, where the tools for content development (e.g. building a really robust IDE for GUI design, text layout etc. SFTP which is "moving" content, SVG which is only coming now very late, palyer object still unclear about Windows..etc.) never come into sharp focus and all the mental re-estate, and $ resources is driven by the engineering vision, which of course is incredibly crucial... but, at the end of the day: we are all looking at pixels on a screen or listening to some audio. IMHO this is one of the LiveCode leadership main strategic "blunders" (sorry to say that) because you are losing a gigantic market of people who have high expectations for being able to do elegant GUI that would adopt LiveCode in a "minute" if they could "trust" the GUI building framework. These are people weaned on Adobe's tools... a very tough sell. Akin to building "kids" who are weaned on Disney Quality content. I even had someone on my own team build me a screen where he laid out buttons on top of a background with text in InDesign and then exported the screen as PNG and sent that to me, because, in his own words, "I don't trust LiveCode to be able to set a perfect baseline across the buttons top to bottom." Of course I had to explain to him that this makes these buttons raster objects, and they may break down if we scale up (fortunately at 1232 X 2208, it holds up well even on an iPad.) But I have to build transparent clickable buttons on top..( can't see my buttons!) and that we *do* have a distribute objects a span that would lay them out perfectly and LC buttons will be better...and Helvetic Neue looks as good in an LC button as it does in Indesign. But those word fall on deaf ears, why? Because when he himself opens LiveCode himself and looks around for tools to build GUI...and put text into a button and the button name/label doesn't even line up centered in the button and the property inspector hides the line height property for a button (you have to tweak it manually from the msg box!) He shakes his head "I'm getting out of here right now." and he will never, ever come back. this is sad, because I think a work flow where the A - Graphic Design team is building beautiful screens and the B- Nerd Team is writing code for those screen is a space where LC could be very, very powerful But since A is not even in the cards for LiveCode, this is never gonna happen. And the response will be "well that's not what LiveCode is meant to do... " Swasti Astu, Be Well! Brahmanathaswami Kauai's Hindu Monastery www.HimalayanAcademy.com Monte Goulding wrote: > Hmm? maybe although I strongly suspect that if you spent the amount of time you are prepared to spend building a custom version control system in LC learning about git you would end up knowing intricacies about git that even Linus has forgotten... From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Fri Aug 21 12:19:48 2015 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 18:19:48 +0200 Subject: [OT] Copyrighting games? In-Reply-To: <0C4FCA4C8A9C43EEB527AC77B8795EEE@GATEWAY> References: <55D4AE0E.30401@gmail.com><617fd5e48dcf3f46592c7936a64999a0@livecode.com><55D4B3A4.4000700@gmail.com><55D4D364.4080304@economy-x-talk.com><55D6784E.7030204@economy-x-talk.com> <55D7490C.4020905@economy-x-talk.com> <0C4FCA4C8A9C43EEB527AC77B8795EEE@GATEWAY> Message-ID: <55D74FA4.9040003@economy-x-talk.com> Someone mentioned websites where you can register your copyrights and my point is not to do this. So, yes, there is definitely an argument to be made. I will not get tempted to discuss trademarks. I said there are patents for algorithms. I didn't write they're easy to defend and that's not the subject of discussion here. Stay on the subject, Lynn. -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer KvK: 50277553 Installer Maker for LiveCode: http://qery.us/468 Buy my new book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner" http://qery.us/3fi LiveCode on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/runrev/ On 8/21/2015 18:09, Lynn Fredricks wrote: >> Lynn, you twist my words. I don't like that. >> >> I didn't say "do nothing". I said: you can do a few things >> that don't cost you money and those copyright registration >> websites don't provide you with any additional protection >> whatsoever, so don't pay for their services. > > You are also creating an argument where there wasn't one. Take a happy > break, its Friday ;-) > > At least with copyright (within the scope of US copyright), once something > is fixed in medium the law applies. You do not have to do anything else to > be afforded protections under the law - therefore, 'do nothing' because you > are covered. If you want enhanced protection under the law, then you > register. > > Trademarks work sort of in a similar way, though I wouldn't not rely on > their similarities without doing research. > > Patents are a glue-huffing, frog in a blender nightmare. Get help. > > Best regards, > > Lynn Fredricks > Paradigma Software > http://www.paradigmasoft.com > > Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Fri Aug 21 12:28:17 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 19:28:17 +0300 Subject: [OT] Copyrighting games? In-Reply-To: <55D74FA4.9040003@economy-x-talk.com> References: <55D4AE0E.30401@gmail.com><617fd5e48dcf3f46592c7936a64999a0@livecode.com><55D4B3A4.4000700@gmail.com><55D4D364.4080304@economy-x-talk.com><55D6784E.7030204@economy-x-talk.com> <55D7490C.4020905@economy-x-talk.com> <0C4FCA4C8A9C43EEB527AC77B8795EEE@GATEWAY> <55D74FA4.9040003@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: <55D751A1.3040104@gmail.com> Dear Mark and Lynn, had I realised my question would have ended up like this I would not have asked it. So, please, chill . . . I am now in touch with someone who has already registered 9 physical (i.e. non-software) games and am waiting for his low-down on the topic (which I intend to pass on here). Richmond. From irog at mac.com Fri Aug 21 12:28:56 2015 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 09:28:56 -0700 Subject: Two great tips, one fantastic source... In-Reply-To: <14878725-D2C4-4527-ACDE-503FB5412E3E@gmail.com> References: <14878725-D2C4-4527-ACDE-503FB5412E3E@gmail.com> Message-ID: Bob, are you suggesting that Digital Color Meter in OS X does something more or other than the Color Palette in LC? Cheers, Roger > On Aug 21, 2015, at 7:33 AM, Earp Robert J. wrote: > > The second is finding out there is a fantastic built-in app called Digital Color Meter in OS X residing in my Utilities folder that I never knew existed, and which does an awful lot of useful stuff from showing the RGB/Hex/etc, values of any pixel being displayed on any screen, to the mouseLoc. http://macmost.com/digital-color-meter.html > tells you a lot more. From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Fri Aug 21 12:44:55 2015 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 12:44:55 -0400 Subject: Two great tips, one fantastic source... In-Reply-To: References: <14878725-D2C4-4527-ACDE-503FB5412E3E@gmail.com> Message-ID: <003801d0dc30$b5ed19a0$21c74ce0$@net> On screen RGB does not tell you what's in the image file. The monitor's color profile(gamma and such) will modify the image for viewing on the screen. It's a great tool to see what is rendered on screen but not to examine the raw content of a displayed image. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Roger Guay Sent: Friday, August 21, 2015 12:29 PM To: How to use LiveCode Subject: Re: Two great tips, one fantastic source... Bob, are you suggesting that Digital Color Meter in OS X does something more or other than the Color Palette in LC? Cheers, Roger > On Aug 21, 2015, at 7:33 AM, Earp Robert J. wrote: > > The second is finding out there is a fantastic built-in app called Digital Color Meter in OS X residing in my Utilities folder that I never knew existed, and which does an awful lot of useful stuff from showing the RGB/Hex/etc, values of any pixel being displayed on any screen, to the mouseLoc. http://macmost.com/digital-color-meter.html > tells you a lot more. _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From devin_asay at byu.edu Fri Aug 21 12:42:59 2015 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 16:42:59 +0000 Subject: Two great tips, one fantastic source... In-Reply-To: <14878725-D2C4-4527-ACDE-503FB5412E3E@gmail.com> References: <14878725-D2C4-4527-ACDE-503FB5412E3E@gmail.com> Message-ID: <58536014-E0AF-451E-9C2A-EEA96CD31CC6@byu.edu> > On Aug 21, 2015, at 8:33 AM, Earp Robert J. wrote: > > I?ve benefitted from the LC lists so many times over the years whilst (embarrassingly) not being able to contribute much due to other far more capable bods than me answering questions almost instantly. To all of those, many thanks, but you hold a secret I cannot find an answer to, how the hell do you find the time to do that !! > > In any event, I recently came across what I think are two great tips from a non-LC list source that I thought was worth passing on. Now, having said that I am sure the majority of folks will yawn and say, I know that, but on the off-chance I can help somebody, read on. > > The source is Gary Rosenburgh who regularly publishes all sorts of OS X and iOS tips via www.macmost.com Two recent posts caught my eye as they will save a lot of time for myself and colleagues. > > The first is learning that I can share a screen with somebody when using Messages. If you are chatting from Mac to Mac using the Messages app you can click on the Details button at the top and select the screen sharing button (two rectangles) to share your screen or have the other party share theirs. You can use this to help a less computer savvy relative or friend with a problem, or just to let them observe a project you are working on. I know you can do this with other apps such as Skype, but Messages seems to be so robust and easy to use. > > The second is finding out there is a fantastic built-in app called Digital Color Meter in OS X residing in my Utilities folder that I never knew existed, and which does an awful lot of useful stuff from showing the RGB/Hex/etc, values of any pixel being displayed on any screen, to the mouseLoc. http://macmost.com/digital-color-meter.html tells you a lot more. > > I subscribed to the macmost.com Newsletter a while ago and have never regretted it especially as I don?t think I?ve ever received one of Gary?s monthly posts without learning something interesting, even if it is only one of the snippets in the This Week in Mac: section. > > All the very best from a continuing sunny British Columbia and I hope this has helped at least one reader ;-) It helped this one, Bob! Digital Color Meter is a revelation, and I can already see how it will help me. On my Dock now! All the best, Devin Devin Asay Office of Digital Humanities Brigham Young University From devin_asay at byu.edu Fri Aug 21 12:53:53 2015 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 16:53:53 +0000 Subject: Two great tips, one fantastic source... In-Reply-To: References: <14878725-D2C4-4527-ACDE-503FB5412E3E@gmail.com> Message-ID: <0BF38A49-F444-484E-8AF1-9122EE2110AF@byu.edu> > On Aug 21, 2015, at 10:28 AM, Roger Guay wrote: > > Bob, are you suggesting that Digital Color Meter in OS X does something more or other than the Color Palette in LC? It?s configurable for one (magnification, RGB profiles, number format, etc.), shows more information, and allows you to copy/paste the RGB values or a color swatch. It?s much better than Photoshop?s color dropper tool, in that it samples anything on the screen (as does LiveCode?s.) Devin Devin Asay Office of Digital Humanities Brigham Young University From irog at mac.com Fri Aug 21 13:02:43 2015 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 10:02:43 -0700 Subject: Two great tips, one fantastic source... In-Reply-To: <0BF38A49-F444-484E-8AF1-9122EE2110AF@byu.edu> References: <14878725-D2C4-4527-ACDE-503FB5412E3E@gmail.com> <0BF38A49-F444-484E-8AF1-9122EE2110AF@byu.edu> Message-ID: <984ECF95-6945-4C65-9211-FFA10D698F67@mac.com> That?s cool! I didn?t know that? > On Aug 21, 2015, at 9:53 AM, Devin Asay wrote: > > allows you to copy/paste the RGB values or a color swatch. From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Aug 21 13:31:03 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 12:31:03 -0500 Subject: JSON, URL-encode, and UTF-8 In-Reply-To: References: <55D22AD6.60203@hyperactivesw.com> <735102C1-7509-4F51-9B45-1F0FE4722712@sweattechnologies.com> <55D24A21.9040807@hyperactivesw.com> <7E1F2A8E-B754-44A8-A506-85E8EA9987C2@sweattechnologies.com> <55D64C6E.7000607@hyperactivesw.com> <55D663C2.4090307@hyperactivesw.com> <5A619B10-DC44-465D-8AE5-7A5D5A4469A3@lacscentre.co.uk> <55D67E86.1090509@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <55D76057.3010603@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/21/2015 3:06 AM, Dave Cragg wrote: > > Instead of removing the httpHeaders setting, what if you set it to > this? > > set the httpHeaders to "Content-Type: > application/x-www-form-urlencoded" > > This is normally the default for post, but if you had set it to > something else earlier, I was wondering whether the previous setting > was still being used. So it turns out that was the answer. I'm very indebted to Charles for helping me, I never would have figured this out. I had launched a new instance of LC 7.1 and it should have been using its default headers, so it seems that something has changed since 6.x. On the other hand, I did so much tinkering that application/json may have been retained from previous tests; I lost track. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Fri Aug 21 15:11:21 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 12:11:21 -0700 Subject: Script Editor future (was Re: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55D777D9.4050405@fourthworld.com> Ali Lloyd wrote: > On Thu, 20 Aug 2015 at 16:49, Richard Gaskin wrote: > >> With the IDE things are even better: it's already written in a >> high-level scripting language. Why not use LiveCode Script? >> >> If we can't build a good text editor in LiveCode, what are any of us >> doing here? > > That is a false dichotomy It may appear to be false without the line I wrote immediately following the portion you quoted: Fortunately we can. Indeed LiveCode is an excellent tool to build such things with, as it is right now. And it seems you and I share that opinion: > - we certainly can build a good text editor in LiveCode Script ...differing only here, and only in terms of priorities: > but we can probably build a better one using LiveCode > Builder and LiveCode Script . I realize it's possible to consider a wide range of options, if the goal were merely pursuing a technical "best". Heck, we could even write it in C++, as SuperCard's and HyperCard's editors were. But the challenge here is more nuanced, balancing desires for "best" with immediate needs to raise conversion rates through an improved experience in the product being sold today. In brief, the challenge at hand is about ROI. Most of the current Script Editor is fine. It's become slow in some areas given layers of patches it's accrued and how those play into some of the slowest parts of the current engine. Rewriting it from scratch in a different language may eventually provide something more performant, but will certainly cost many times more than just using the language it's already written in to tidy up some loose ends. Given the cost-benefit ratios involved, ROI favors improving the user experience with what we have in hand today. I appreciate your enthusiasm for LC Builder, and when it's as robust and performant as LiveCode Script we'll all be equally excited about putting it to work. But in the here-and-now, faced with the inevitable tradeoffs of running a business, I found Kevin's reply to my note about the value of LiveCode Script very promising: > I think this is a really important principal. Always use the highest > level language you can for any given project. Offering that very high > level language option is a big part of LiveCode's reason for being. > > Previously our primary choices were between LiveCode Script and a > lower level language such as C. Now we have a third choice, an > intermediate LiveCode Builder. Its much faster than C but slower than > Script. It is going to excel at certain tasks. However we should > always choose to use it only when it offers clear advantages above > LiveCode Script for the project that outweigh the extra level of > effort needed to use it. I know its very tempting having added a > whole new language to build everything in that, but we must carefully > resist that temptation and use it judiciously, only for what it is > best at. LiveCode Script is a great language. Everything everyone has delivered with LiveCode thus far has been written in it, so while we all look forward to Builder's completion to compliment LC Script for certain tasks, most of everyone's work in LiveCode will be done in LiveCode Script for years to come, and for good reason: it truly is a fine language, well designed, generally performant, and thoroughly field-tested. If it's decided to add some modest but necessary modernization to the script editor using LiveCode Script, as much as I also admire all the team members I've worked with I hope you're the one to do it. Very few people identify themselves as being "passionate about chunk expressions", and your enthusiasm and talent would lend themselves well to delivering a script editor we can all be proud of, raising conversion rates to help pay for the road ahead toward LC Builder. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Fri Aug 21 15:24:04 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 12:24:04 -0700 Subject: Script Editor future (was Re: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card) In-Reply-To: <4A7C1AAF-8EB4-4630-8E14-5748A88ACCD5@derbrill.de> References: <4A7C1AAF-8EB4-4630-8E14-5748A88ACCD5@derbrill.de> Message-ID: <55D77AD4.50405@fourthworld.com> Malte Brill wrote: > Ali Lloyd wrote: > >> I don't think that the current script editor should be neglected > > I think that depends on when 7 will be EOLed. If you plan to have 8 > stable by the end of the year and you plan to have a new Script > editor there, wasting resources might be indeed a waste. Having a version of the code base in which the number has been changed to "8" is only the first step. To realize the benefits of LC Builder for the script editor will require, as Ali noted, the completion of a field widget. I think it's safe to say that's a ways down the road. But one of the best things about v8 is that it still runs LiveCode Script. We won't need to throw all our code away to move to v8; on the contrary, all LiveCode Script is expected to run in v8 just as it does in v7, since that part of the engine is more or less the same. So any investment in increasing immediate revenues by improving the version being sold today will continue to work just as well in any later version. > Well, for me it is not so much about the text editor. It wouldn?t > be the first textEditor I would be scripting. My problem would be > the friggin debugger? The debugger is indeed a critical area, but my understanding is that the ways in which it's weak aren't as much related to the IDE scripts as much as the engine itself. Using the same engine instance to both execute and debug that execution is like trying to stick your fingers between moving fan blades to work on the motor. :) The proposed solution is to have a separate instance of the engine for debugging, so the debugger itself can't interfere with the process it's debugging. As desirable as that is, it seems deep enough that it may take some time to sort out, and there may be parts of v8's architecture in which that becomes more practical. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Fri Aug 21 15:27:39 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 12:27:39 -0700 Subject: [OT] Copyrighting games? In-Reply-To: <0C4FCA4C8A9C43EEB527AC77B8795EEE@GATEWAY> References: <0C4FCA4C8A9C43EEB527AC77B8795EEE@GATEWAY> Message-ID: <55D77BAB.2050503@fourthworld.com> Lynn Fredricks wrote: > Patents are a glue-huffing, frog in a blender nightmare. Get help. LOL I guess that would make design patents the equivalent of a meth-head's teeth. ;) -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From smudge.andy at googlemail.com Fri Aug 21 16:22:29 2015 From: smudge.andy at googlemail.com (AndyP) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 13:22:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Script Editor future (was Re: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card) In-Reply-To: <55D77AD4.50405@fourthworld.com> References: <43CD8158-FDFC-4DB0-A695-D8E8832C2E92@gmail.com> <1440023550.55d503fee606d@www.server101.com> <55D5F6F0.2060503@fourthworld.com> <4A7C1AAF-8EB4-4630-8E14-5748A88ACCD5@derbrill.de> <55D77AD4.50405@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <1440188549152-4695493.post@n4.nabble.com> Wold it be possible or even practical to use the atom editor passing info back and forth to LC thus separating LC from the editor so only one instance of the engine is required to be running ? No idea how to do this, just throwing it in for discussion. ----- Andy Piddock My software never has bugs. It just develops random features. Copy the new cloud space, get your free 15GB space now: Get Copy Script editor Themer for LC http://2108.co.uk PointandSee is a FREE simple but full featured under cursor colour picker / finder. http://www.pointandsee.co.uk - made with LiveCode -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Open-Source-Kickstarter-Report-Card-tp4695018p4695493.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From simon at asato-media.com Fri Aug 21 16:45:30 2015 From: simon at asato-media.com (Simon) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 13:45:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [OT] Copyrighting games? In-Reply-To: <2B7C4D53-48E0-43CA-BC4B-F2DE568A5D2B@all-auctions.com> References: <55D4AE0E.30401@gmail.com> <617fd5e48dcf3f46592c7936a64999a0@livecode.com> <55D4B3A4.4000700@gmail.com> <4E48BACF-41F3-4868-974F-E367AFD23EB1@all-auctions.com> <55D4CAEE.5090905@gmail.com> <2B7C4D53-48E0-43CA-BC4B-F2DE568A5D2B@all-auctions.com> Message-ID: <1440189930814-4695494.post@n4.nabble.com> Rick Harrison wrote > ... break up > the pieces if they are very different from each other and farm > each piece out to a different producer so that no one gets the > whole picture... Chortle :-) Nukes? Manhattan project? Richmond what are you making? Simon -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/OT-Copyrighting-games-tp4695339p4695494.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Fri Aug 21 17:40:48 2015 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 23:40:48 +0200 Subject: [OT] Copyrighting games? In-Reply-To: <55D751A1.3040104@gmail.com> References: <55D4AE0E.30401@gmail.com><617fd5e48dcf3f46592c7936a64999a0@livecode.com><55D4B3A4.4000700@gmail.com><55D4D364.4080304@economy-x-talk.com><55D6784E.7030204@economy-x-talk.com> <55D7490C.4020905@economy-x-talk.com> <0C4FCA4C8A9C43EEB527AC77B8795EEE@GATEWAY> <55D74FA4.9040003@economy-x-talk.com> <55D751A1.3040104@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55D79AE0.80502@economy-x-talk.com> Sorry Richmond, but don't let us stop you from asking questions. -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer KvK: 50277553 Installer Maker for LiveCode: http://qery.us/468 Buy my new book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner" http://qery.us/3fi LiveCode on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/runrev/ On 8/21/2015 18:28, Richmond wrote: > Dear Mark and Lynn, > > had I realised my question would have ended up like this I would not > have asked it. > > So, please, chill . . . > > I am now in touch with someone who has already registered 9 physical > (i.e. non-software) games > and am waiting for his low-down on the topic (which I intend to pass on > here). > > Richmond. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From dochawk at gmail.com Fri Aug 21 19:29:17 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 16:29:17 -0700 Subject: UTF8 encoding error in moving data from SQLite to Postgres? Message-ID: I am getting the error revdberr,ERROR: invalid byte sequence for encoding "UTF8": 0xca 0x27 I think this is coming because I pasted data from a web browser into live code, which in turn put it into the memory SQLite db, and then choked with another command copying that data to Postgres. I'm not sure where to start. Obviously, I need to filter something, somewhere. But where should filtering be happening? There is not a circumstance in which this application would ever need foreign character sets; plain old 7 bit ascii would be fine (except for the part about it coming in from somewhere else . . .)) -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From dochawk at gmail.com Fri Aug 21 20:29:03 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 17:29:03 -0700 Subject: [OT] Copyrighting games? In-Reply-To: References: <55D4AE0E.30401@gmail.com> <617fd5e48dcf3f46592c7936a64999a0@livecode.com> <55D4B3A4.4000700@gmail.com> <55D4D364.4080304@economy-x-talk.com> <55D6784E.7030204@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Aug 21, 2015 at 8:30 AM, Lynn Fredricks < lfredricks at proactive-intl.com> wrote: > Copyright registration is not required to be afforded some protections > under > copyright law, but it affords _additional_ protection under US law that > makes your rights easier to enforce. > Most notably, the eligibility for statutory damages. If memory serves, there are also better provisions for attorneys fees.(Yes I am a lawyer, but this is a statement of the law, not legal advice) -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Fri Aug 21 20:54:00 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 19:54:00 -0500 Subject: [OT] Copyrighting games? In-Reply-To: References: <55D4AE0E.30401@gmail.com> <617fd5e48dcf3f46592c7936a64999a0@livecode.com> <55D4B3A4.4000700@gmail.com> <55D4D364.4080304@economy-x-talk.com> <55D6784E.7030204@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: <55D7C828.9020300@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/21/2015 7:29 PM, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > On Fri, Aug 21, 2015 at 8:30 AM, Lynn Fredricks < > lfredricks at proactive-intl.com> wrote: > >> Copyright registration is not required to be afforded some protections >> under >> copyright law, but it affords _additional_ protection under US law that >> makes your rights easier to enforce. >> > > Most notably, the eligibility for statutory damages. If memory serves, > there are also better provisions for attorneys fees.(Yes I am a lawyer, but > this is a statement of the law, not legal advice) When I was 10 years old and taking piano lessons I wrote a little song. I took out my big pencil and double-sized music paper and laboriously wrote it out. It was three pages long. I then scrawled out a long-hand letter to the U.S. Copyright Office requesting copyright forms, and returned my little song to Washington D.C. where it languishes to this day. I was SO PROUD. And even though I can no longer remember how the song went or what it was, it is formally copyrighted and if anyone steals it I can sue and make tons of money -- provided I recognize it. :) -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From sundown at pacifier.com Fri Aug 21 21:05:57 2015 From: sundown at pacifier.com (JB) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 18:05:57 -0700 Subject: [OT] Copyrighting games? In-Reply-To: <55D7C828.9020300@hyperactivesw.com> References: <55D4AE0E.30401@gmail.com> <617fd5e48dcf3f46592c7936a64999a0@livecode.com> <55D4B3A4.4000700@gmail.com> <55D4D364.4080304@economy-x-talk.com> <55D6784E.7030204@economy-x-talk.com> <55D7C828.9020300@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <56F29C4B-05EB-418C-A83E-58781C805596@pacifier.com> I think patents and copyrights have a time limit. John Balgenorth On Aug 21, 2015, at 5:54 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > On 8/21/2015 7:29 PM, Dr. Hawkins wrote: >> On Fri, Aug 21, 2015 at 8:30 AM, Lynn Fredricks < >> lfredricks at proactive-intl.com> wrote: >> >>> Copyright registration is not required to be afforded some protections >>> under >>> copyright law, but it affords _additional_ protection under US law that >>> makes your rights easier to enforce. >>> >> >> Most notably, the eligibility for statutory damages. If memory serves, >> there are also better provisions for attorneys fees.(Yes I am a lawyer, but >> this is a statement of the law, not legal advice) > > When I was 10 years old and taking piano lessons I wrote a little song. I took out my big pencil and double-sized music paper and laboriously wrote it out. It was three pages long. I then scrawled out a long-hand letter to the U.S. Copyright Office requesting copyright forms, and returned my little song to Washington D.C. where it languishes to this day. > > I was SO PROUD. And even though I can no longer remember how the song went or what it was, it is formally copyrighted and if anyone steals it I can sue and make tons of money -- provided I recognize it. :) > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From lfredricks at proactive-intl.com Sat Aug 22 01:11:44 2015 From: lfredricks at proactive-intl.com (Lynn Fredricks) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2015 22:11:44 -0700 Subject: [OT] Copyrighting games? In-Reply-To: References: <55D4AE0E.30401@gmail.com><617fd5e48dcf3f46592c7936a64999a0@livecode.com><55D4B3A4.4000700@gmail.com> <55D4D364.4080304@economy-x-talk.com><55D6784E.7030204@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: <6B32E89D1A9445208119540CACBC464B@GATEWAY> > > Copyright registration is not required to be afforded some > protections > > under copyright law, but it affords _additional_ protection > under US > > law that makes your rights easier to enforce. > > > > Most notably, the eligibility for statutory damages. If > memory serves, there are also better provisions for attorneys > fees.(Yes I am a lawyer, but this is a statement of the law, > not legal advice) I think you are right. That's the bummer too. Without registration, you could sue for actual damages but not necessarily for your attorney fees. If you create works that are large / monolithic, like a book, it might make sense to do just that. But if you produce a lot of small works, then that's a real question, and there are some solutions I guess - for example, if you are a photographer, I believe you can submit a kind of "sheet" with a bunch of individual photos on it and have them all addressed under a single registration. The last time I looked there were a few oddball variant registrations like that. Best regards, Lynn Fredricks Paradigma Software http://www.paradigmasoft.com Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sat Aug 22 04:18:25 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2015 11:18:25 +0300 Subject: [OT] Copyrighting games? In-Reply-To: <1440189930814-4695494.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <55D4AE0E.30401@gmail.com> <617fd5e48dcf3f46592c7936a64999a0@livecode.com> <55D4B3A4.4000700@gmail.com> <4E48BACF-41F3-4868-974F-E367AFD23EB1@all-auctions.com> <55D4CAEE.5090905@gmail.com> <2B7C4D53-48E0-43CA-BC4B-F2DE568A5D2B@all-auctions.com> <1440189930814-4695494.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <55D83051.7050704@gmail.com> On 21/08/15 23:45, Simon wrote: > Rick Harrison wrote >> ... break up >> the pieces if they are very different from each other and farm >> each piece out to a different producer so that no one gets the >> whole picture... > Chortle :-) > Nukes? > Manhattan project? > > Richmond what are you making? Well, between you, me and the gatepost, it is a second Manhattan project . . . Ha, Ha, Ha! A "silly, little game" revolving around pattern matching shapes. Here is something similar: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuo_%28game%29 Richmond. > > Simon > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/OT-Copyrighting-games-tp4695339p4695494.html > Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jbv at souslelogo.com Sat Aug 22 06:43:20 2015 From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2015 13:43:20 +0300 Subject: last control In-Reply-To: <55D83051.7050704@gmail.com> References: <55D4AE0E.30401@gmail.com> <617fd5e48dcf3f46592c7936a64999a0@livecode.com> <55D4B3A4.4000700@gmail.com> <4E48BACF-41F3-4868-974F-E367AFD23EB1@all-auctions.com> <55D4CAEE.5090905@gmail.com> <2B7C4D53-48E0-43CA-BC4B-F2DE568A5D2B@all-auctions.com> <1440189930814-4695494.post@n4.nabble.com> <55D83051.7050704@gmail.com> Message-ID: <688889a5fa9480d50abdb587d714ef61.squirrel@continental.on-rev.com> Hi list I have a group made of 40 buttons. These 2 lines run fine : select first btn of grp "myGroup" select last btn of grp "myGroup" But only the first of the 2 following lines works, the second one returns a compilation error : select first control of grp "myGroup" select last control of grp "myGroup" I am using LC Community 6.5.2 on Mac. Is it worth filing a bug report ? Thanks jbv From effendi at wanadoo.fr Sat Aug 22 06:43:37 2015 From: effendi at wanadoo.fr (Francis Nugent Dixon) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2015 12:43:37 +0200 Subject: Two great tips, one fantastic source Message-ID: <70E5F11D-4325-4D18-88ED-2D3FBB832F5C@wanadoo.fr> Hi from beautifu lBrittany (where the holiday crowds are leaving in droves) To Bob Earp, Thanks for the info about the ?Digital Colo(u)r Meter, Didn?t know that it existed ! Must take a trot around ?Utilities? to see if there are any more gems. Automator has also helped me a lot ! I could have used Digital Colo(u)r Meter a thousand times over the years. Now it is solidly entrenched in my Finder ?SideBar? (.savedSearch), ready for instant use. Thanks again -Francis From peter.brett at livecode.com Sat Aug 22 08:16:32 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2015 13:16:32 +0100 Subject: last control In-Reply-To: <688889a5fa9480d50abdb587d714ef61.squirrel@continental.on-rev.com> References: <55D4AE0E.30401@gmail.com> <617fd5e48dcf3f46592c7936a64999a0@livecode.com> <55D4B3A4.4000700@gmail.com> <4E48BACF-41F3-4868-974F-E367AFD23EB1@all-auctions.com> <55D4CAEE.5090905@gmail.com> <2B7C4D53-48E0-43CA-BC4B-F2DE568A5D2B@all-auctions.com> <1440189930814-4695494.post@n4.nabble.com> <55D83051.7050704@gmail.com> <688889a5fa9480d50abdb587d714ef61.squirrel@continental.on-rev.com> Message-ID: On 2015-08-22 11:43, jbv at souslelogo.com wrote: > Hi list > > I have a group made of 40 buttons. > These 2 lines run fine : > select first btn of grp "myGroup" > select last btn of grp "myGroup" > > But only the first of the 2 following lines works, the > second one returns a compilation error : > select first control of grp "myGroup" > select last control of grp "myGroup" > > I am using LC Community 6.5.2 on Mac. > Is it worth filing a bug report ? Can you reproduce the problem in a current version of LiveCode? Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Engine Development Team LiveCode on reddit! From bonnmike at gmail.com Sat Aug 22 10:30:49 2015 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2015 08:30:49 -0600 Subject: last control In-Reply-To: References: <55D4AE0E.30401@gmail.com> <617fd5e48dcf3f46592c7936a64999a0@livecode.com> <55D4B3A4.4000700@gmail.com> <4E48BACF-41F3-4868-974F-E367AFD23EB1@all-auctions.com> <55D4CAEE.5090905@gmail.com> <2B7C4D53-48E0-43CA-BC4B-F2DE568A5D2B@all-auctions.com> <1440189930814-4695494.post@n4.nabble.com> <55D83051.7050704@gmail.com> <688889a5fa9480d50abdb587d714ef61.squirrel@continental.on-rev.com> Message-ID: selecting the last control of group doesn't work in any version I've tested. (various 6, and 7.0.6) They compile fine, but the runtime error is this: executing at 8:22:40 AM Type Chunk: no such object Object Button Line select last control of grp 1 Hint 1 Strangely, the last control in my test group is a button, so apparently the last control IS found (to some extent) but inaccessible this way? Works fine sans grouping. Its easy enough to work around, but it should work I think. Until its fixed: select control (the number of controls in group 1) of group 1 On Sat, Aug 22, 2015 at 6:16 AM, Peter TB Brett wrote: > On 2015-08-22 11:43, jbv at souslelogo.com wrote: > >> Hi list >> >> I have a group made of 40 buttons. >> These 2 lines run fine : >> select first btn of grp "myGroup" >> select last btn of grp "myGroup" >> >> But only the first of the 2 following lines works, the >> second one returns a compilation error : >> select first control of grp "myGroup" >> select last control of grp "myGroup" >> >> I am using LC Community 6.5.2 on Mac. >> Is it worth filing a bug report ? >> > > Can you reproduce the problem in a current version of LiveCode? > > Peter > > -- > Dr Peter Brett > LiveCode Engine Development Team > > LiveCode on reddit! > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From peter.brett at livecode.com Sat Aug 22 12:17:00 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2015 17:17:00 +0100 Subject: last control In-Reply-To: References: <55D4AE0E.30401@gmail.com> <617fd5e48dcf3f46592c7936a64999a0@livecode.com> <55D4B3A4.4000700@gmail.com> <4E48BACF-41F3-4868-974F-E367AFD23EB1@all-auctions.com> <55D4CAEE.5090905@gmail.com> <2B7C4D53-48E0-43CA-BC4B-F2DE568A5D2B@all-auctions.com> <1440189930814-4695494.post@n4.nabble.com> <55D83051.7050704@gmail.com> <688889a5fa9480d50abdb587d714ef61.squirrel@continental.on-rev.com> Message-ID: <9414bb7151123a0941ba62615ed8cf46@livecode.com> On 2015-08-22 15:30, Mike Bonner wrote: > selecting the last control of group doesn't work in any version I've > tested. (various 6, and 7.0.6) > They compile fine, but the runtime error is this: > > executing at 8:22:40 AM > Type Chunk: no such object > Object Button > Line select last control of grp 1 > Hint 1 > > Strangely, the last control in my test group is a button, so apparently > the > last control IS found (to some extent) but inaccessible this way? > Works > fine sans grouping. I filed a bug report: http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15763 Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Engine Development Team LiveCode on reddit! From feed at smpcsupport.com Sat Aug 22 21:01:09 2015 From: feed at smpcsupport.com (RunRevPlanet) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2015 11:01:09 +1000 Subject: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card) Message-ID: <1440291669.55d91b556f760@www.server101.com> Mike Kerner said: > effort should instead be spent on a > BBEdit/TextWrangler plugin or some > method for leveraging someone else's > text editor. the problem with this approach is that you need to find a single editor that runs on Linux, OS X Windows. Without using a single editor/IDE on all platforms, the developer experience and ease of use will rapidly diminish. Malte Brill said: > +1, just eclipse ;-). I have no idea how difficult that would be, but it sounds like the sledgehammer cracking the walnut. From the smiley I don't know whether to take that suggestions seriously? > Still the IDE will have to come with a script > editor that works out of the box. There is no need to throw away what exists, hitch LiveCode to another editor, when it only needs improving with a few more features and some care and attention to boost the ease of use. I would be surprised if the amount of work making a plugin for another system would be less than just fixing what currently exists. As a couple of concrete examples, that are mentioned elsewhere, but are repeated again in more detail, because this is a new thread. * And remember the reason these features exists in other tools is not because Scott likes them, but because programmers find them powerful and time saving. Suppose I am doing some work on a handler and want to change the name of all instances of a variable in it. (I am a big believer in using meaningful variable names to make code self documenting, but sometimes a good name is not apparent until after it has been used a few times in that function.) So I want to rename all instances without risking affecting other handlers in the same pane of the script editor. Currently I have to: 1. Have a button on the stack for the purpose of having an extra "scratch pad" script editor pane. 2. Copy and paste the handler to my ad hoc "scratch pad editor pane" and replacing all text (if any) currently there from my previous editing. 3. Do the Find and replace. 4. Copy and paste the text back from the scratch pane over the original script. I could avoid doing this and instead put the text cursor at the start of the handler and carefully repeatedly do a replace until I get to the end of the relevant code. But then close attention is needed and in a long handler it actually takes more clicks and keyboard presses than the method above and I have to concentrate harder and am more likely to make a mistake. All the while, every coding editor I have ever used (except LiveCode) has an option to restrict the Find and Replace to selected text. So much quicker and less error prone. Then then there are bookmarks which are missing. The problem with the handler list pane of the current editor is that with a stack or card with many handlers there is a constant need to scroll up and down that if the two handlers I am working on have names widely separated in the alphabet. Sure, I could move handlers around in my code so they are adjacent. But there there will then be two different handlers that my current work is concentrating on and I have to make sure that they are now adjacent so I can work efficiently. (Moving code to work around the short-comings of the IDE feels like madness.) Again, every coding editor I have ever used (except LiveCode) has an option to set and jump to bookmarks using keyboard shortcuts. Once a programmer is used to and expects such features (and remember this is basic stuff that has existed elsewhere for literally decades), working in LiveCode can quickly feel frustrating and inefficient. Programmers coming from other tools to try LiveCode notice these problems, and while the absence will not affect people starting their coding adventures in LiveCode, to capitalise on going Open Source you still need to attract (and keep!) more experienced coders too. So the sooner the editor experience is improved the better. -- Scott McDonald "Components, Controls, Tools and Resources for LiveCode" www.runrevplanet.com From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Sat Aug 22 21:32:24 2015 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2015 09:32:24 +0800 Subject: What is this - is anyone making money? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Richard wrote: > To be good at anything is a function of time spent practicing. Malcolm > Gladwell estimates that the time needed to truly master just about anything > is roughly 10,000 hours. So at 5,000 hours one can expect to at least be > very good, and at 1,000 hours far better off than not having spent the time > studying the task at all. > Todd wrote: > The real critical problem is many expect LC to be a genie in a bottle and > grant you three profitable apps. > > Mostly, it is lack of experience that has created this illusion. > > Many do indeed purchase LiveCode like they do language software and thing > the will learn to speak French simply by osmosis. > So therein lies the real question. Basically everyone here, and certainly Apple/MetaCard/RunRev and now LC all claim that xTalk and their IDE of the day helped to make you productive faster. So does Gladwell's estimate of 10000hrs apply or is there something magic within LC that gets you to your goal faster? Personally I think there is a bit of magic. Firstly, let's take the 10000hrs. If that is correct it suggests that whether I choose Java or LC it's going to take the same time for me to master either. I don't buy that. If it were true, then it doesn't bode well for LC, because what it's saying is, pick your language wisely because either way it's going to take the same effort to master so it will be other factors, like how many open source projects are out there that use the language, what is the size of the community that use it, how many major companies already use software written in the language, how well respected is the language in the community at large, etc, etc which should determine you choice of language. IMO, some people can learn French through osmosis, but I'm certainly not one of them. On the other side of the coin, for myself and I know for others, there is something about the xtalk language that just clicked with me. I've tried C, C++, Objective C, Java, Javascript, Applescript some Basic and probably one or two others that failed to take hold. To be brutally honest, the language I'd like to learn the most is Java, there are a bunch of OSS projects out there that are written in Java that I would just love to participate in, but the language doesn't work for me like LC does. Is it because I've been spoilt with HC/LC, it's so easy to create a quick and dirty app yet in other languages you just seem to get dirty and stay that way for ages. Are we back at Gladwell's 10000 hrs? Is there a difference at 100 hrs and 1000 hrs with Java/C/Pick a language vs LC that gives you a false impression but at the end of the day you still need 10000 hrs. Again, I don't think so. The way I see it Gladwell shouldn't have used hours, it should have been a unit applicable to the profession, and the thought that 10000 applies to everyone is just ridiculous - there has to be a bit of magic, a gift, an inherent talent as well. You can't turn a 300lb professional footballer into a ballet dancer and you can't turn someone with spacial awareness problems into a trapeze artist. Give a builder an electric hammer, and electric saw and an electric screw driver will he become a master builder faster than the guy with the manual tools. Yes, because it isn't 10000 hrs it's 10000 nails, or it's 10 houses. Becoming a master builder isn't about how well you draw a saw blade across a piece of lumber, it's is the cut perpendicular; it isn't about how well you swing a hammer, it's is the nail driven straight; it isn't about how well you twist a screw driver, it's is the screw driven home with the right amount of torque. If modern tools give you a perpendicular cut, nails driven straight, and screws torqued to perfection then why waste time? For programming, if the syntax for C or Pascal or Assembly language is much or a muchness to you, then you are gifted, maybe LC doesn't offer you much at all; but if LC clicked with your brain then a genie has just handed you an electric hammer, an electric saw and an electric screw driver. Next, it's 10000 lines of productive code, not hours that will make the difference. And I think everyone here knows that overall LC gets things done in less lines of code than other languages. Also, for good or bad, we tend to spend less time writing lines and lines of comments as the code in many instances is self explanatory. So the crux comes down to this. IMO your ability to make money with LC has nothing to do with the language and everything to do with your business acumen, which Richard and Todd have already pointed out will take a lot of skill, effort and time. In this regard Gladwell is probably correct, it wont matter what business it is, or what tools you are using, it's going to take YOU the same 10000 whatevers to master the business. Once you've mastered those business skills, then LC will let you take advantage of them faster. From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sat Aug 22 21:35:17 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2015 18:35:17 -0700 Subject: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card) In-Reply-To: <1440291669.55d91b556f760@www.server101.com> References: <1440291669.55d91b556f760@www.server101.com> Message-ID: <55D92355.4030608@ahsoftware.net> On 08/22/2015 06:01 PM, RunRevPlanet wrote: > I would be surprised if the amount of work making a plugin for another system > would be less than just fixing what currently exists. from the work I've done on glx2 I'd second that. The IDE has way too many hooks that need to be trapped in a frontscript in order to use a editor from the built-in one. And it's gotten worse, not better, with LC 7/8. I was rather hoping that the IDE would evolve to a plugin framework that would allow you to swap individual elements, but it's probably wishful thinking on my part. Time to look at rIDE again. > All the while, every coding editor I have ever used (except LiveCode) has an > option to restrict the Find and Replace to selected text. So much quicker and > less error prone. Additionally, RubyMine has not only this, but some great refactoring features that let you, for instance, change the number or order of parameters to a handler and then update all instances of calls to that handler anywhere in any part of the project. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sat Aug 22 22:41:48 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2015 21:41:48 -0500 Subject: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card) In-Reply-To: <1440291669.55d91b556f760@www.server101.com> References: <1440291669.55d91b556f760@www.server101.com> Message-ID: <55D932EC.9040600@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/22/2015 8:01 PM, RunRevPlanet wrote: > As a couple of concrete examples, that are mentioned elsewhere, but are repeated > again in more detail, because this is a new thread. I'll agree with all your suggestions, you've laid out a good list of things the editor should do and I've wished for some of those myself. But if anyone is interested in workarounds while we wait, here's what I do: > restrict the Find and Replace to selected text. I have a custom backscript where I put stuff I use frequently for development. Or you could just do it in the message box: get the clipboardData replace "oldvar" with "newVar" in it set the clipboardData to it It might be faster than using a temp field. > Then then there are bookmarks which are missing. The problem with the handler > list pane of the current editor is that with a stack or card with many handlers > there is a constant need to scroll up and down that if the two handlers I am > working on have names widely separated in the alphabet. This is sort of half-implemented, it needs to be finished. You can right-click on any called handler name and choose "Go to definition" in the contextual menu. That pops you over to the second handler instantly, even if it's in a different script. The part that's missing is a way to jump back to where you started. If it opens a second script tab, no problem. You can even detach the second tab and have both scripts visible at the same time. If the second handler is in the same script and you only read it, the original one stays hilited in the left-hand list so you can just click there to go back. But if you click in the handler you just jumped to, the selection changes and you have to scroll to go back. I've often wished there was a way to go back where I came from, but it is a one-way trip for now. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sat Aug 22 22:47:25 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2015 19:47:25 -0700 Subject: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card) In-Reply-To: <55D932EC.9040600@hyperactivesw.com> References: <1440291669.55d91b556f760@www.server101.com> <55D932EC.9040600@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <55D9343D.7070905@ahsoftware.net> On 08/22/2015 07:41 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > I've often wished there was a way to go back where I came from, but it is a one-way trip for now. It's a feature in glx2, but I'm not sure how to patch it into the built-in editor. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From dochawk at gmail.com Sun Aug 23 00:00:42 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2015 21:00:42 -0700 Subject: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card) In-Reply-To: <1440291669.55d91b556f760@www.server101.com> References: <1440291669.55d91b556f760@www.server101.com> Message-ID: On Saturday, August 22, 2015, RunRevPlanet wrote: > > the problem with this approach is that you need to find a single editor > that > runs on Linux, OS X Windows. vi, of course . . . If you want to use that heretical emacs contraption, you'll get performance almost as bad as the current IDE. For crying out loud, I'd go for ed or similar if I could have response times In tenth of seconds rather than full seconds (there is not a circumstance in which it is reasonable that the IDE take a noticeable fraction of a second to respond, yet a "good" time is closer to 2s than 1s . . . And 3s is not rare) -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From pete at lcsql.com Sun Aug 23 00:50:47 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2015 04:50:47 +0000 Subject: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card) In-Reply-To: References: <1440291669.55d91b556f760@www.server101.com> Message-ID: I remember someone posted that they used red dot breakpoints as bookmarks. I have them in lcstackbrowser too. But they should be in the script editor. On Sat, Aug 22, 2015, 9:01 PM Dr. Hawkins wrote: > On Saturday, August 22, 2015, RunRevPlanet wrote: > > > > > the problem with this approach is that you need to find a single editor > > that > > runs on Linux, OS X Windows. > > > vi, of course . . . > > If you want to use that heretical emacs contraption, you'll get performance > almost as bad as the current IDE. > > For crying out loud, I'd go for ed or similar if I could have > response times In tenth of seconds rather than full seconds (there is not a > circumstance in which it is reasonable that the IDE take a noticeable > fraction of a second to respond, yet a "good" time is closer to 2s than 1s > . . . And 3s is not rare) > > > > > -- > Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. > (702) 508-8462 > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From bonnmike at gmail.com Sun Aug 23 00:57:10 2015 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2015 22:57:10 -0600 Subject: Determine context Message-ID: Quick question, hopefully with an easy answer.. I have some objects with settable properties. I only want them to be settable from scripts in specific objects. In this case, I want the card script to be able to set object properties, but don't want the scripts in the objects themselves to be able to do so, or for these objects to be able to set their siblings properties. (so basically, limited to the card script) Reading the property is fine, but reading sibling properties is not, so the card script should be able to set and see all properties. An object should only be able to see itself. Is this possible? From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Sun Aug 23 02:51:35 2015 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2015 14:51:35 +0800 Subject: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card) In-Reply-To: References: <1440291669.55d91b556f760@www.server101.com> Message-ID: Mike Kerner said: > effort should instead be spent on a > BBEdit/TextWrangler plugin or some > method for leveraging someone else's > text editor. Malte Brill said: > +1, just eclipse? ;-). The Dr. said: >vi, of course . . . >If you want to use that heretical emacs contraption, you'll get performance >almost as bad as the current IDE. Scott said: >the problem with this approach is that you need to find a single editor that >runs on Linux, OS X Windows. Without using a single editor/IDE on all platforms, >the developer experience and ease of use will rapidly diminish. I don't agree, I think you've got that wrong way around. I think a lot of the recent discussion has been about 1st impressions. If an investigating developer turns up who spends most of his time in BBEdit/Emacs/vi/Eclipse discovers he can use the same tool for LC, that has to be a good thing. Surely it would be advantageous for a developer to turn up with any tool of his choice and be able to use it so as to keep his comfort zone as large as possible and his learning curve as small as possible. All his favourite keyboard shortcuts would work, his screen layout would be similar, his syntax hilighting colour preferences unchanged. He can then focus on the idiosyncrasies of LC. I don't care if the LC Script Editor in Linux is exactly the same as the SE experience on OS X. Why should it matter? The SE experience in Linux should be a Linux experience, in Win it should be a Win experience, in OS X an OS X experience. Scott said: >I have no idea how difficult that would be, but it sounds like the sledgehammer >cracking the walnut. But isn't that the point. The feeling I get from comments is that people think the current Script Editor is a tack hammer and they are wanting something a bit more meaty. The nice thing about some of the tools mentioned is they can be used as a tack or ball pien when light and agile is needed, or they can be a mallet or sledge when really heavy work is required - they are specifically built for text manipulation tasks and they have gained their reputation because they are extremely good at it. Scott also said: >I would be surprised if the amount of work making a plugin for another system >would be less than just fixing what currently exists. Mark: > from the work I've done on glx2 I'd second that. The IDE has way too many hooks that need to be trapped And Mark would know, but again is this because the problem is being viewed wrong way around, is this the horse driving the kart? I wonder if someone from the mothership sat down and said "right, we are going to make our Script Editor compatible with the top 3 text editors on each platform, how do we make that happen." if a lot of those hooks could be simplified and the process more 3rd party friendly? I recently posted about this Document viewer: https://kapeli.com/dash 150+ documents sets, integrating with 25+ Apps including TextWrangler, BBEdit, Eclipse and Emacs. What it doesn't tell you is that it recognises 80+ languages including Xojo, GEDCOM (family history), Lilypond (Music notation), the extremely cool sounding SuperCollider (audio) and Metaslang; which is so rare that even Google can't find it. Apparently all maintained by a single person. I admit I have no clue, but I imagine what we are talking about is passing a chunk of text from LC to another program. If one guy can figure out how to grab the text from 150+ doc sets, and then feed that into 25+ apps, and then syntax colour the text, I figure it shouldn't be too hard for a single person from the mothership to figure out how to ease the process of passing an LC script to a dozen different text editors and ensure those text editors are kept up to date with the LC syntax definitions. At the end of the day the LC Script Editor should be a glowing example of what LC can do. But by the same token, Xcode,along with all the other text centric programs that I use, allow me to choose a different text editor. The wheel was invented a long time ago. There are developers who's living is made from perfecting the wheel. There must be a reason why so many 'others' allow you to choose a different Text Editor in their application rather than being forced to use the built in one. From peter.brett at livecode.com Sun Aug 23 04:46:29 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2015 09:46:29 +0100 Subject: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card) In-Reply-To: <1440291669.55d91b556f760@www.server101.com> References: <1440291669.55d91b556f760@www.server101.com> Message-ID: <37457074fb1866d997e549298ba26e97@livecode.com> On 2015-08-23 02:01, RunRevPlanet wrote: > Then then there are bookmarks which are missing. The problem with the > handler > list pane of the current editor is that with a stack or card with many > handlers > there is a constant need to scroll up and down that if the two handlers > I am > working on have names widely separated in the alphabet. I want to see a filter search box added to the script editor's handler list for exactly that reason! Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Engine Development Team LiveCode on reddit! From ali.lloyd at livecode.com Sun Aug 23 05:51:21 2015 From: ali.lloyd at livecode.com (Ali Lloyd) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2015 09:51:21 +0000 Subject: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card) In-Reply-To: <55D92355.4030608@ahsoftware.net> References: <1440291669.55d91b556f760@www.server101.com> <55D92355.4030608@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 2:35 AM Mark Wieder wrote: > > The IDE has way too > many hooks that need to be trapped in a frontscript in order to use a > editor from the built-in one. And it's gotten worse, not > better, with LC 7/8. > It's not possible for it to have gotten worse in LC 7, as the 7 IDE is identical to the 6 IDE except for branding. I was rather hoping that the IDE would evolve to a > plugin framework that would allow you to swap individual elements, but > it's probably wishful thinking on my part. > This is exactly what we *are* trying to get to with the 8 IDE. > > Architecturally a lot has changed too. Individual elements of the IDE now > react to internal messages for which they have registered through a central > IDE library. This will eventually make elements of the IDE much more > pluggable, and also improve IDE performance. From tfabacher at gmail.com Sun Aug 23 09:46:02 2015 From: tfabacher at gmail.com (Todd Fabacher) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2015 09:46:02 -0400 Subject: What is this - is anyone making money? Message-ID: >So the crux comes down to this. IMO your ability to make money with LC has >nothing to do with the language and everything to do with your business >acumen, which Richard and Todd have already pointed out will take a lot of >skill, effort and time. In this regard Gladwell is probably correct, it >wont matter what business it is, or what tools you are using, it's going to >take YOU the same 10000 whatevers to master the business. Great point Kay. So I searched google with LiveCode + startups, + money, +profit, +success, +App business, +business, + Venture Capital ...Mostly I got things like this: http://discuss.joelonsoftware.com/default.asp?biz.5.855727.7 What do you think about starting a community driven initiative named "Making Money with LiveCode", it will complement the "Create It with LiveCode" class? But it will be community driven and mentor people who are just starting out. There are benefits because if you do contract work there will be more takers, more possibilities of customers for the new widgets and if you are an investor like me who is always looking for possibilities - this is perfect. The point is to make the LiveCode pie bigger and more profitable for all. I am a HUGE fan of open source, but I am also a fan of HUGE profits. There can be both. --Todd From colinholgate at gmail.com Sun Aug 23 09:56:31 2015 From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2015 09:56:31 -0400 Subject: What is this - is anyone making money? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9494A0B4-53AA-4AE7-95E4-B8C5F245267D@gmail.com> Small Google tip: although -something still works, +something doesn?t. Now you put the word or phrase in quotes. > On Aug 23, 2015, at 9:46 AM, Todd Fabacher wrote: > > > Great point Kay. So I searched google with LiveCode + startups, + money, > +profit, +success, +App business, +business, + Venture Capital ...Mostly I > got things like this: > http://discuss.joelonsoftware.com/default.asp?biz.5.855727.7 From pmbrig at gmail.com Sun Aug 23 09:58:56 2015 From: pmbrig at gmail.com (Peter M. Brigham) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2015 09:58:56 -0400 Subject: What is this - is anyone making money? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6A6C1BA7-9ACE-4647-9D4C-9B1592347798@gmail.com> On Aug 22, 2015, at 9:32 PM, Kay C Lan wrote: > Richard wrote: > >> To be good at anything is a function of time spent practicing. Malcolm >> Gladwell estimates that the time needed to truly master just about anything >> is roughly 10,000 hours. So at 5,000 hours one can expect to at least be >> very good, and at 1,000 hours far better off than not having spent the time >> studying the task at all. >> > > Todd wrote: > >> The real critical problem is many expect LC to be a genie in a bottle and >> grant you three profitable apps. >> >> Mostly, it is lack of experience that has created this illusion. >> >> Many do indeed purchase LiveCode like they do language software and thing >> the will learn to speak French simply by osmosis. >> > > So therein lies the real question. Basically everyone here, and certainly > Apple/MetaCard/RunRev and now LC all claim that xTalk and their IDE of the > day helped to make you productive faster. So does Gladwell's estimate of > 10000hrs apply or is there something magic within LC that gets you to your > goal faster? Personally I think there is a bit of magic. > > Firstly, let's take the 10000hrs. If that is correct it suggests that > whether I choose Java or LC it's going to take the same time for me to > master either. I don't buy that. If it were true, then it doesn't bode well > for LC, because what it's saying is, pick your language wisely because > either way it's going to take the same effort to master so it will be other > factors, like how many open source projects are out there that use the > language, what is the size of the community that use it, how many major > companies already use software written in the language, how well respected > is the language in the community at large, etc, etc which should determine > you choice of language. > > IMO, some people can learn French through osmosis, but I'm certainly not > one of them. On the other side of the coin, for myself and I know for > others, there is something about the xtalk language that just clicked with > me. I've tried C, C++, Objective C, Java, Javascript, Applescript some > Basic and probably one or two others that failed to take hold. To be > brutally honest, the language I'd like to learn the most is Java, there are > a bunch of OSS projects out there that are written in Java that I would > just love to participate in, but the language doesn't work for me like LC > does. Is it because I've been spoilt with HC/LC, it's so easy to create a > quick and dirty app yet in other languages you just seem to get dirty and > stay that way for ages. Are we back at Gladwell's 10000 hrs? Is there a > difference at 100 hrs and 1000 hrs with Java/C/Pick a language vs LC that > gives you a false impression but at the end of the day you still need 10000 > hrs. Again, I don't think so. > > The way I see it Gladwell shouldn't have used hours, it should have been a > unit applicable to the profession, and the thought that 10000 applies to > everyone is just ridiculous - there has to be a bit of magic, a gift, an > inherent talent as well. You can't turn a 300lb professional footballer > into a ballet dancer and you can't turn someone with spacial awareness > problems into a trapeze artist. > > Give a builder an electric hammer, and electric saw and an electric screw > driver will he become a master builder faster than the guy with the manual > tools. Yes, because it isn't 10000 hrs it's 10000 nails, or it's 10 houses. > Becoming a master builder isn't about how well you draw a saw blade across > a piece of lumber, it's is the cut perpendicular; it isn't about how well > you swing a hammer, it's is the nail driven straight; it isn't about how > well you twist a screw driver, it's is the screw driven home with the right > amount of torque. If modern tools give you a perpendicular cut, nails > driven straight, and screws torqued to perfection then why waste time? > > For programming, if the syntax for C or Pascal or Assembly language is much > or a muchness to you, then you are gifted, maybe LC doesn't offer you much > at all; but if LC clicked with your brain then a genie has just handed you > an electric hammer, an electric saw and an electric screw driver. Next, > it's 10000 lines of productive code, not hours that will make the > difference. And I think everyone here knows that overall LC gets things > done in less lines of code than other languages. Also, for good or bad, we > tend to spend less time writing lines and lines of comments as the code in > many instances is self explanatory. > > So the crux comes down to this. IMO your ability to make money with LC has > nothing to do with the language and everything to do with your business > acumen, which Richard and Todd have already pointed out will take a lot of > skill, effort and time. In this regard Gladwell is probably correct, it > wont matter what business it is, or what tools you are using, it's going to > take YOU the same 10000 whatevers to master the business. > > Once you've mastered those business skills, then LC will let you take > advantage of them faster. I'll put on my neuropsychology hat for a moment [OT]?. The 10000 hour rule is a heuristic shortcut that Gladwell arrived at by empirical observation. We now know enough about the way the brain works to begin to guess some of the underlying mechanisms. We used to think that the brain had 110 billion neurons at age 21 and the only question was how slowly could you lose them. We now know that the brain is making new neurons all the time, albeit at a slow rate. In addition, the brain is constantly changing itself in response to how it's being used: it strengthens the myelinization of tracts that are used constantly (which speeds up neuronal transmission along those tracts), and areas of gray matter that are used regularly expand and take over a bit of neighboring areas that are used less. The frontal motor area governing voluntary movement of the hands and arms of a concert pianist is up to twice as large as that of other people. So the brain is a hugely active, plastic organ, perhaps the most dynamic organ in the body, even when it comes to structural changes. It looks as if the timeline for fundamental re-tooling of the brain is something like Gladwell's 10000 hours (which comes out to 40 hours a week, 50 weeks a year, for 5 years). However. this is for a full structural adaptation to completely new skills. The advantage of LC over other languages is that this amount of retooling is not necessary, since LC builds on skills the brain has already adapted to. It's English-like in vocabulary and syntax, most of the basic objects are familiar to anyone who has used a computer (buttons, fields, etc.), and the basic idea of messages and the message path taps into concepts that are familiar too, once you wrap your head around them. So the learning curve for LC is not nearly as steep, since the amount of brain restructuring is not nearly as much as with those languages that require "a whole new way of thinking." A similar phenomenon happens with learning languages (in the non-computer sense) -- if you're an English speaker, it's easier to learn a romance language in which many of the word roots are shared and the syntax taps into familiar patterns, compared to, say, Thai, where you have to learn a new alphabet, a new syntax, some new phonemes, the whole notion of pitch and tone as modifying meaning rather than emotional expression, never mind new cultural contexts that change how you say things. So I think you're both right. The reason someone can begin to master LC in a reasonably short time is that the brain is already halfway there. -- Peter Peter M. Brigham pmbrig at gmail.com http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig From pmbrig at gmail.com Sun Aug 23 10:13:35 2015 From: pmbrig at gmail.com (Peter M. Brigham) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2015 10:13:35 -0400 Subject: Determine context In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <051BFDE4-B830-481E-8E54-42F389ACEBF6@gmail.com> I think you could put getprop and setprop handlers into a frontscript that do this on setprop whatever put line 1 of the executioncontexts into tOrigin if tOrigin begins with "card" then pass whatever end whatever ...etc. This is not tested, but fooling around with the executioncontexts should get you there. You also might have to make use of "the target", which will give you the name of the object whose property is being set. -- Peter Peter M. Brigham pmbrig at gmail.com http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig On Aug 23, 2015, at 12:57 AM, Mike Bonner wrote: > Quick question, hopefully with an easy answer.. > > I have some objects with settable properties. I only want them to be > settable from scripts in specific objects. In this case, I want the card > script to be able to set object properties, but don't want the scripts in > the objects themselves to be able to do so, or for these objects to be able > to set their siblings properties. (so basically, limited to the card script) > > Reading the property is fine, but reading sibling properties is not, so the > card script should be able to set and see all properties. An object should > only be able to see itself. > > Is this possible? > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bonnmike at gmail.com Sun Aug 23 10:34:35 2015 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2015 08:34:35 -0600 Subject: Determine context In-Reply-To: <051BFDE4-B830-481E-8E54-42F389ACEBF6@gmail.com> References: <051BFDE4-B830-481E-8E54-42F389ACEBF6@gmail.com> Message-ID: Ah k, Thank you, i'll poke around with that. The target won't do what I need since I'm looking for (usng your word) the origin. Off to poke around the executioncontexts On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 8:13 AM, Peter M. Brigham wrote: > I think you could put getprop and setprop handlers into a frontscript that > do this > > on setprop whatever > put line 1 of the executioncontexts into tOrigin > if tOrigin begins with "card" then pass whatever > end whatever > > ...etc. This is not tested, but fooling around with the executioncontexts > should get you there. You also might have to make use of "the target", > which will give you the name of the object whose property is being set. > > -- Peter > > Peter M. Brigham > pmbrig at gmail.com > http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig > > > On Aug 23, 2015, at 12:57 AM, Mike Bonner wrote: > > > Quick question, hopefully with an easy answer.. > > > > I have some objects with settable properties. I only want them to be > > settable from scripts in specific objects. In this case, I want the card > > script to be able to set object properties, but don't want the scripts in > > the objects themselves to be able to do so, or for these objects to be > able > > to set their siblings properties. (so basically, limited to the card > script) > > > > Reading the property is fine, but reading sibling properties is not, so > the > > card script should be able to set and see all properties. An object > should > > only be able to see itself. > > > > Is this possible? > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From dochawk at gmail.com Sun Aug 23 11:18:13 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2015 08:18:13 -0700 Subject: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card) In-Reply-To: References: <1440291669.55d91b556f760@www.server101.com> <55D92355.4030608@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 2:51 AM, Ali Lloyd wrote: > It's not possible for it to have gotten worse in LC 7, as the 7 IDE is > identical to the 6 IDE except for branding > It does, however, seem to be a huge leap back from 5. The delays in 5 were merely sluggish enough to be annoying, irc. Now they're long enough to click a couple of times, look around, cuss the machine, click another couple of times, check to see if other applications or other lived windows work, and click again. I am not exaggerating at frequently seeing a 2-3 second lag time, and (almost?) never under a second. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sun Aug 23 11:44:38 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2015 10:44:38 -0500 Subject: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card) In-Reply-To: References: <1440291669.55d91b556f760@www.server101.com> <55D92355.4030608@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <1129A920-ED76-4F86-8345-EA3EE1447D3A@hyperactivesw.com> On August 23, 2015 10:18:13 AM CDT, "Dr. Hawkins" wrote: > >I am not exaggerating at frequently seeing a 2-3 second lag time, and >(almost?) never under a second. Just out of curiosity, does it get better if you turn off script colonizing? -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From pmbrig at gmail.com Sun Aug 23 11:50:13 2015 From: pmbrig at gmail.com (Peter M. Brigham) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2015 11:50:13 -0400 Subject: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card) In-Reply-To: <1129A920-ED76-4F86-8345-EA3EE1447D3A@hyperactivesw.com> References: <1440291669.55d91b556f760@www.server101.com> <55D92355.4030608@ahsoftware.net> <1129A920-ED76-4F86-8345-EA3EE1447D3A@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <45F0F7FB-34BF-45F8-A79E-6B57559E2E5C@gmail.com> On Aug 23, 2015, at 11:44 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote: >> I am not exaggerating at frequently seeing a 2-3 second lag time, and >> (almost?) never under a second. > > Just out of curiosity, does it get better if you turn off script colonizing? Is "script colonizing" what happens when bugs creep into your scripts and settle there?? -- Peter Peter M. Brigham pmbrig at gmail.com http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sun Aug 23 11:55:53 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2015 10:55:53 -0500 Subject: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card) In-Reply-To: References: <1440291669.55d91b556f760@www.server101.com> Message-ID: On August 23, 2015 1:51:35 AM CDT, Kay C Lan wrote: >I wonder if someone >from the mothership sat down and said "right, we are going to make our >Script Editor compatible with the top 3 text editors on each platform, >how do we make that happen." if a lot of those hooks could be simplified >and the process more 3rd party friendly? When the last script editor revision was released it included hooks so you could work in any external editor. I never used that so I'm not sure how it's done, but I believe the feature is still available. I know there are at least some remnants of it because there's a bug that sometimes warns me that the script has been revised in an outside source when it hasn't been. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sun Aug 23 12:04:46 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2015 09:04:46 -0700 Subject: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card) In-Reply-To: <45F0F7FB-34BF-45F8-A79E-6B57559E2E5C@gmail.com> References: <1440291669.55d91b556f760@www.server101.com> <55D92355.4030608@ahsoftware.net> <1129A920-ED76-4F86-8345-EA3EE1447D3A@hyperactivesw.com> <45F0F7FB-34BF-45F8-A79E-6B57559E2E5C@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55D9EF1E.3000307@ahsoftware.net> On 08/23/2015 08:50 AM, Peter M. Brigham wrote: > Is "script colonizing" what happens when bugs creep into your scripts and settle there?? Don't you just hate it when that happens? -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sun Aug 23 12:21:38 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2015 11:21:38 -0500 Subject: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card) In-Reply-To: <45F0F7FB-34BF-45F8-A79E-6B57559E2E5C@gmail.com> References: <1440291669.55d91b556f760@www.server101.com> <55D92355.4030608@ahsoftware.net> <1129A920-ED76-4F86-8345-EA3EE1447D3A@hyperactivesw.com> <45F0F7FB-34BF-45F8-A79E-6B57559E2E5C@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3AEB6B3F-A940-4714-B55D-4567EECEEB37@hyperactivesw.com> On August 23, 2015 10:50:13 AM CDT, "Peter M. Brigham" wrote: >On Aug 23, 2015, at 11:44 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > >>> I am not exaggerating at frequently seeing a 2-3 second lag time, >and >>> (almost?) never under a second. >> >> Just out of curiosity, does it get better if you turn off script >colonizing? > >Is "script colonizing" what happens when bugs creep into your scripts >and settle there?? Heh :-) It is a particularly common occurrence when typing on a mobile device. Do not code there. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Sun Aug 23 12:25:09 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2015 11:25:09 -0500 Subject: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card) In-Reply-To: <55D9EF1E.3000307@ahsoftware.net> References: <1440291669.55d91b556f760@www.server101.com> <55D92355.4030608@ahsoftware.net> <1129A920-ED76-4F86-8345-EA3EE1447D3A@hyperactivesw.com> <45F0F7FB-34BF-45F8-A79E-6B57559E2E5C@gmail.com> <55D9EF1E.3000307@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <14EC94E1-8C53-45A9-BD96-8EDA5BB9C486@hyperactivesw.com> On August 23, 2015 11:04:46 AM CDT, Mark Wieder wrote: >On 08/23/2015 08:50 AM, Peter M. Brigham wrote: > >> Is "script colonizing" what happens when bugs creep into your scripts >and settle there?? > >Don't you just hate it when that happens? Okay auto-correct, I've had it with your shirt. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From ali.lloyd at livecode.com Sun Aug 23 13:01:31 2015 From: ali.lloyd at livecode.com (Ali Lloyd) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2015 17:01:31 +0000 Subject: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card) In-Reply-To: References: <1440291669.55d91b556f760@www.server101.com> <55D92355.4030608@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 23 Aug 2015 at 16:18, Dr. Hawkins wrote: On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 2:51 AM, Ali Lloyd wrote: > It's not possible for it to have gotten worse in LC 7, as the 7 IDE is > identical to the 6 IDE except for branding > It does, however, seem to be a huge leap back from 5. The delays in 5 were merely sluggish enough to be annoying, irc.? ? Now they're long enough to click a couple of times, look around, cuss the machine, click another couple of times, check to see if other applications or other lived windows work, and click again. My response was specifically in relation to what Mark said about hooks and frontscripts. On Sun, 23 Aug 2015 at 16:18, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 2:51 AM, Ali Lloyd wrote: > > > It's not possible for it to have gotten worse in LC 7, as the 7 IDE is > > identical to the 6 IDE except for branding > > > > It does, however, seem to be a huge leap back from 5. > > The delays in 5 were merely sluggish enough to be annoying, irc. Now > they're long enough to click a couple of times, look around, cuss the > machine, click another couple of times, check to see if other applications > or other lived windows work, and click again. > > I am not exaggerating at frequently seeing a 2-3 second lag time, and > (almost?) never under a second. > > > -- > Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. > (702) 508-8462 > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From dunbarx at aol.com Sun Aug 23 13:13:38 2015 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2015 13:13:38 -0400 Subject: last control In-Reply-To: <9414bb7151123a0941ba62615ed8cf46@livecode.com> Message-ID: <14f5b8d1cb2-5bab-d625@webprd-a42.mail.aol.com> This may have something to do with the fact that the "last" keyword does not work with groups. I left a note in the dictionary about this years ago. Anyone think that issue might connect to this one? Craig Newman -----Original Message----- From: Peter TB Brett To: How to use LiveCode Sent: Sat, Aug 22, 2015 12:17 pm Subject: Re: last control On 2015-08-22 15:30, Mike Bonner wrote: > selecting the last control of group doesn't work in any version I've > tested. (various 6, and 7.0.6) > They compile fine, but the runtime error is this: > > executing at 8:22:40 AM > Type Chunk: no such object > Object Button > Line select last control of grp 1 > Hint 1 > > Strangely, the last control in my test group is a button, so apparently > the > last control IS found (to some extent) but inaccessible this way? > Works > fine sans grouping. I filed a bug report: http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15763 Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Engine Development Team LiveCode on reddit! _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sun Aug 23 14:46:23 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2015 11:46:23 -0700 Subject: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card) In-Reply-To: References: <1440291669.55d91b556f760@www.server101.com> <55D92355.4030608@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <55DA14FF.9000201@ahsoftware.net> On 08/23/2015 02:51 AM, Ali Lloyd wrote: > It's not possible for it to have gotten worse in LC 7, as the 7 IDE is > identical to the 6 IDE except for branding. Thanks. I stand corrected then. Still trying to track down why this is such a CPU hog in LC7. I'll remove the extra checks I put in for the revSE... handlers. > This is exactly what we *are* trying to get to with the 8 IDE. Good to hear. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sun Aug 23 14:52:58 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2015 11:52:58 -0700 Subject: Open Source Kickstarter Report Card In-Reply-To: <1440151663095-4695469.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <43CD8158-FDFC-4DB0-A695-D8E8832C2E92@gmail.com> <1439935075.55d3aa63da208@www.server101.com> <55D41281.6090501@fourthworld.com> <55D6EBB3.4010300@gmail.com> <1440151663095-4695469.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <55DA168A.7060202@ahsoftware.net> On 08/21/2015 03:07 AM, AndyP wrote: > Preview image > > > When Im happy with it Ill make it available for hacking Open source. Finally went and took a look - that's quite a nice start. I'm looking forward to that release. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From lfredricks at proactive-intl.com Sun Aug 23 19:29:35 2015 From: lfredricks at proactive-intl.com (Lynn Fredricks) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2015 16:29:35 -0700 Subject: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card) In-Reply-To: <45F0F7FB-34BF-45F8-A79E-6B57559E2E5C@gmail.com> References: <1440291669.55d91b556f760@www.server101.com><55D92355.4030608@ahsoftware.net><1129A920-ED76-4F86-8345-EA3EE1447D3A@hyperactivesw.com> <45F0F7FB-34BF-45F8-A79E-6B57559E2E5C@gmail.com> Message-ID: > Is "script colonizing" what happens when bugs creep into your > scripts and settle there?? Its nothing compared with a script colonoscopy. Best regards, Lynn Fredricks Paradigma Software http://www.paradigmasoft.com Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Sun Aug 23 21:57:26 2015 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2015 09:57:26 +0800 Subject: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card) In-Reply-To: References: <1440291669.55d91b556f760@www.server101.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 11:55 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > > When the last script editor revision was released it included hooks so you > could work in any external editor. Was that pre or post GLX2? More information would be welcome. I manually take scripts in and out of BBEdit and it would be nice if LC behaved like all the other apps I use that seamlessly integrate with BBEdit. > I believe the feature is still available. I know there are at least some > remnants of it because there's a bug that sometimes warns me that the > script has been revised in an outside source when it hasn't been. > > Yes I've seen this warning, both logically - because I have messed with the script in BBEdit, and less obviously - when I don't believe I've revised the script. I'm casually trying to figure this out as to whether it is a bug or a feature I don't understand. Currently I have two theories; 1) whilst stepping through a script in debug mode you display a variable in it's own window (not just in the pane below the scrip you are stepping through) and manually amend the variable value then continue to step through the script but cancel it at some point prior to it's proper end point. 2) whilst stepping through a script in debug mode you manually adjust the parameters of a conditional breakpoint, continue to step through the script but cancel it at some point prior to it's proper end point. In both these cases LC becomes out of sync with what it thinks is the current state of the script compared to what it's saved state of the script is. As I said, I'm only casually tracking this as I certainly don't have a recipe to make it happen and because it happens so rarely I'm never in the frame of mind that 'Oh this could happen'. But when it does happen, at this stage I seem to have been doing the above. From userev at canelasoftware.com Mon Aug 24 00:00:47 2015 From: userev at canelasoftware.com (Mark Talluto) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2015 21:00:47 -0700 Subject: What is this - is anyone making money? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > On Aug 23, 2015, at 6:46 AM, Todd Fabacher > wrote: > > Great point Kay. So I searched google with LiveCode + startups, + money, > +profit, +success, +App business, +business, + Venture Capital ...Mostly I > got things like this: > http://discuss.joelonsoftware.com/default.asp?biz.5.855727.7 I like the last comment the most on that page: http://discuss.joelonsoftware.com/default.asp?biz.5.855727.7 Looks like they used the Showcase LiveCode once had on their site. The poster remembers using our software at a hospital. Cool. I think LiveCode should bring the showcase back. It seems people new to LiveCode like to see what has been made with this tool after all. Who would have guessed? Best regards, Mark Talluto canelasoftware.com CassiaDB: The easy to use, free local storage database made for LiveCode Developers: livecloud.io From dochawk at gmail.com Mon Aug 24 00:46:08 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2015 21:46:08 -0700 Subject: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card) In-Reply-To: <1129A920-ED76-4F86-8345-EA3EE1447D3A@hyperactivesw.com> References: <1440291669.55d91b556f760@www.server101.com> <55D92355.4030608@ahsoftware.net> <1129A920-ED76-4F86-8345-EA3EE1447D3A@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 8:44 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > Just out of curiosity, does it get better if you turn off script > colonizing? > As others have already made the cheap (and funny) one, I'll pass. But I didn't know that this could be done. I'll try. Hilting a script was the first thing that ever convinced me there was value in color on a computer screen; until that, i preferred the sharper monochrome displays. And then friends started sending pictures of children . . . -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Aug 24 01:06:43 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2015 00:06:43 -0500 Subject: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card) In-Reply-To: References: <1440291669.55d91b556f760@www.server101.com> Message-ID: <55DAA663.3070308@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/23/2015 8:57 PM, Kay C Lan wrote: > On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 11:55 PM, J. Landman Gay > wrote: > >> > >> >When the last script editor revision was released it included hooks so you >> >could work in any external editor. > > Was that pre or post GLX2? More information would be welcome. I manually > take scripts in and out of BBEdit and it would be nice if LC behaved like > all the other apps I use that seamlessly integrate with BBEdit. > > Sorry, I can't remember when it happened, but it was quite a while ago. I think there used to be a place in Prefs where you could indicate the app you wanted to use. There's no trace of that now in any of the versions I currently have installed, so it was some time prior to 6.x probably. There were some glitches that needed smoothing out and it looks like the idea was shelved. But maybe it wouldn't be too hard to put it back in. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Mon Aug 24 04:33:35 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2015 11:33:35 +0300 Subject: Daisy Pulls it Off Message-ID: <55DAD6DF.9070600@gmail.com> So, I changed my system over from Xubuntu 32-bit 15.10 alpha (stupido!) to Xubuntu 64-bit 15.04 with Home folder intact! Installed LC 8.0 alpha/beta/gamma/delta/? 2 and was very disappointed to find that the Dictionary does not work at all . . . . The User guide is the user guide from 2010 . . . Humpf. Richmond. From peter.brett at livecode.com Mon Aug 24 04:43:39 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2015 09:43:39 +0100 Subject: Daisy Pulls it Off In-Reply-To: <55DAD6DF.9070600@gmail.com> References: <55DAD6DF.9070600@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55DAD93B.9040500@livecode.com> On 24/08/2015 09:33, Richmond wrote: > So, I changed my system over from Xubuntu 32-bit 15.10 alpha (stupido!) > to Xubuntu 64-bit 15.04 with Home folder intact! I'm glad to hear that the migration was successful. > Installed LC 8.0 alpha/beta/gamma/delta/? 2 and was very disappointed to > find > that the Dictionary does not work at all . . . . > > The User guide is the user guide from 2010 . . . These are known issues, and all of them will be addressed before the final release of LiveCode 8. Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Engine Development Team LiveCode on reddit: https://reddit.com/r/livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Mon Aug 24 05:08:12 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2015 12:08:12 +0300 Subject: Daisy Pulls it Off In-Reply-To: <55DAD93B.9040500@livecode.com> References: <55DAD6DF.9070600@gmail.com> <55DAD93B.9040500@livecode.com> Message-ID: <55DADEFC.5050409@gmail.com> On 08/24/2015 11:43 AM, Peter TB Brett wrote: > > > On 24/08/2015 09:33, Richmond wrote: >> So, I changed my system over from Xubuntu 32-bit 15.10 alpha (stupido!) >> to Xubuntu 64-bit 15.04 with Home folder intact! > > I'm glad to hear that the migration was successful. > >> Installed LC 8.0 alpha/beta/gamma/delta/? 2 and was very disappointed to >> find >> that the Dictionary does not work at all . . . . >> >> The User guide is the user guide from 2010 . . . > > These are known issues, and all of them will be addressed before the > final release of LiveCode 8. > > Peter > > "Known issues" . . . I suppose that is the polite way of saying something doesn't work. Anyway . . . "for the meantime" . . . would there be a place where one could fine something about the "lc" language? Richmond. From charles at techstrategies.com.au Mon Aug 24 05:14:27 2015 From: charles at techstrategies.com.au (Charles Warwick) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2015 19:14:27 +1000 Subject: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card) In-Reply-To: <37457074fb1866d997e549298ba26e97@livecode.com> References: <1440291669.55d91b556f760@www.server101.com> <37457074fb1866d997e549298ba26e97@livecode.com> Message-ID: <808594FA-399E-4129-A09D-3C535ACAA3A8@techstrategies.com.au> I recently modified the script editor to do exactly that, as a long list of handlers was getting very annoying, and it has been working very well. Here are two screenshots of the modified script editor: https://www.dropbox.com/s/4bsjmbftg6uue9w/LC%20handler%20filter%20list%20empty.png?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/b1mzgapttpcurfx/LC%20handler%20filter%20list.png?dl=0 I am happy to submit the changes to the git repository if it is of any interest to the LC team. Cheers, Charles > On 23 Aug 2015, at 6:46 pm, Peter TB Brett wrote: > > On 2015-08-23 02:01, RunRevPlanet wrote: > >> Then then there are bookmarks which are missing. The problem with the handler >> list pane of the current editor is that with a stack or card with many handlers >> there is a constant need to scroll up and down that if the two handlers I am >> working on have names widely separated in the alphabet. > > I want to see a filter search box added to the script editor's handler list for exactly that reason! > > Peter > > -- > Dr Peter Brett > LiveCode Engine Development Team > > LiveCode on reddit! > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From peter.brett at livecode.com Mon Aug 24 05:27:22 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2015 10:27:22 +0100 Subject: Script editor handler filter [was: Re: Script Editor future] In-Reply-To: <808594FA-399E-4129-A09D-3C535ACAA3A8@techstrategies.com.au> References: <1440291669.55d91b556f760@www.server101.com> <37457074fb1866d997e549298ba26e97@livecode.com> <808594FA-399E-4129-A09D-3C535ACAA3A8@techstrategies.com.au> Message-ID: <55DAE37A.7030603@livecode.com> On 24/08/2015 10:14, Charles Warwick wrote: > I recently modified the script editor to do exactly that, as a long list of handlers was getting very annoying, and it has been working very well. > > Here are two screenshots of the modified script editor: > > https://www.dropbox.com/s/4bsjmbftg6uue9w/LC%20handler%20filter%20list%20empty.png?dl=0 > > https://www.dropbox.com/s/b1mzgapttpcurfx/LC%20handler%20filter%20list.png?dl=0 > > I am happy to submit the changes to the git repository if it is of any interest to the LC team. That looks like exactly what I had in mind! Great work. This is exactly the kind of change that we'd love to be able to accept into our git repository. Unfortunately, we aren't currently able to accept changes to binary stack files in the git repository, because we don't have the right tools to be able to review the changes. I'm really disappointed, because I'd love to be able to incorporate your changes. We really need to improve our tools in order to make this possible! Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Engine Development Team LiveCode on reddit: https://reddit.com/r/livecode From charles at techstrategies.com.au Mon Aug 24 06:05:17 2015 From: charles at techstrategies.com.au (Charles Warwick) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2015 20:05:17 +1000 Subject: Script editor handler filter [was: Re: Script Editor future] In-Reply-To: <55DAE37A.7030603@livecode.com> References: <1440291669.55d91b556f760@www.server101.com> <37457074fb1866d997e549298ba26e97@livecode.com> <808594FA-399E-4129-A09D-3C535ACAA3A8@techstrategies.com.au> <55DAE37A.7030603@livecode.com> Message-ID: >> I recently modified the script editor to do exactly that, as a long list of handlers was getting very annoying, and it has been working very well. >> >> Here are two screenshots of the modified script editor: >> >> https://www.dropbox.com/s/4bsjmbftg6uue9w/LC%20handler%20filter%20list%20empty.png?dl=0 >> >> https://www.dropbox.com/s/b1mzgapttpcurfx/LC%20handler%20filter%20list.png?dl=0 >> >> I am happy to submit the changes to the git repository if it is of any interest to the LC team. > > That looks like exactly what I had in mind! Great work. This is exactly the kind of change that we'd love to be able to accept into our git repository. > > Unfortunately, we aren't currently able to accept changes to binary stack files in the git repository, because we don't have the right tools to be able to review the changes. > > I'm really disappointed, because I'd love to be able to incorporate your changes. We really need to improve our tools in order to make this possible! > > Peter > I expected there might be some issues around that. If it helps, I am happy to send through a list of the changes in textual format via e-mail. I appreciate that is a more manual process from your side, so may not be suitable. Cheers, Charles From peter.brett at livecode.com Mon Aug 24 06:17:10 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2015 11:17:10 +0100 Subject: Script editor handler filter [was: Re: Script Editor future] In-Reply-To: References: <1440291669.55d91b556f760@www.server101.com> <37457074fb1866d997e549298ba26e97@livecode.com> <808594FA-399E-4129-A09D-3C535ACAA3A8@techstrategies.com.au> <55DAE37A.7030603@livecode.com> Message-ID: <55DAEF26.4060508@livecode.com> On 24/08/2015 11:05, Charles Warwick wrote: >>> I recently modified the script editor to do exactly that, as a long list of handlers was getting very annoying, and it has been working very well. >>> >>> Here are two screenshots of the modified script editor: >>> >>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/4bsjmbftg6uue9w/LC%20handler%20filter%20list%20empty.png?dl=0 >>> >>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/b1mzgapttpcurfx/LC%20handler%20filter%20list.png?dl=0 >>> >>> I am happy to submit the changes to the git repository if it is of any interest to the LC team. >> >> That looks like exactly what I had in mind! Great work. This is exactly the kind of change that we'd love to be able to accept into our git repository. >> >> Unfortunately, we aren't currently able to accept changes to binary stack files in the git repository, because we don't have the right tools to be able to review the changes. >> >> I'm really disappointed, because I'd love to be able to incorporate your changes. We really need to improve our tools in order to make this possible! >> >> Peter >> > > I expected there might be some issues around that. > > If it helps, I am happy to send through a list of the changes in textual format via e-mail. I appreciate that is a more manual process from your side, so may not be suitable. That would be great, if you have time! Why not send it to the list, so everyone can see what was involved? Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Engine Development Team LiveCode on reddit: https://reddit.com/r/livecode From ali.lloyd at livecode.com Mon Aug 24 06:43:35 2015 From: ali.lloyd at livecode.com (Ali Lloyd) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2015 10:43:35 +0000 Subject: Daisy Pulls it Off In-Reply-To: <55DADEFC.5050409@gmail.com> References: <55DAD6DF.9070600@gmail.com> <55DAD93B.9040500@livecode.com> <55DADEFC.5050409@gmail.com> Message-ID: https://livecode.com/resources/api/ On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 10:08 AM Richmond wrote: > On 08/24/2015 11:43 AM, Peter TB Brett wrote: > > > > > > On 24/08/2015 09:33, Richmond wrote: > >> So, I changed my system over from Xubuntu 32-bit 15.10 alpha (stupido!) > >> to Xubuntu 64-bit 15.04 with Home folder intact! > > > > I'm glad to hear that the migration was successful. > > > >> Installed LC 8.0 alpha/beta/gamma/delta/? 2 and was very disappointed to > >> find > >> that the Dictionary does not work at all . . . . > >> > >> The User guide is the user guide from 2010 . . . > > > > These are known issues, and all of them will be addressed before the > > final release of LiveCode 8. > > > > Peter > > > > > > "Known issues" . . . I suppose that is the polite way of saying > something doesn't work. > > Anyway . . . "for the meantime" . . . would there be a place where one > could fine something about the "lc" language? > > Richmond. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Mon Aug 24 07:04:47 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2015 14:04:47 +0300 Subject: Daisy Pulls it Off In-Reply-To: References: <55DAD6DF.9070600@gmail.com> <55DAD93B.9040500@livecode.com> <55DADEFC.5050409@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55DAFA4F.7020903@gmail.com> On 08/24/2015 01:43 PM, Ali Lloyd wrote: > https://livecode.com/resources/api/ Great! Thanks! Richmond. > > On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 10:08 AM Richmond > wrote: > >> On 08/24/2015 11:43 AM, Peter TB Brett wrote: >>> >>> On 24/08/2015 09:33, Richmond wrote: >>>> So, I changed my system over from Xubuntu 32-bit 15.10 alpha (stupido!) >>>> to Xubuntu 64-bit 15.04 with Home folder intact! >>> I'm glad to hear that the migration was successful. >>> >>>> Installed LC 8.0 alpha/beta/gamma/delta/? 2 and was very disappointed to >>>> find >>>> that the Dictionary does not work at all . . . . >>>> >>>> The User guide is the user guide from 2010 . . . >>> These are known issues, and all of them will be addressed before the >>> final release of LiveCode 8. >>> >>> Peter >>> >>> >> "Known issues" . . . I suppose that is the polite way of saying >> something doesn't work. >> >> Anyway . . . "for the meantime" . . . would there be a place where one >> could fine something about the "lc" language? >> >> Richmond. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From feed at smpcsupport.com Mon Aug 24 08:40:04 2015 From: feed at smpcsupport.com (RunRevPlanet) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2015 22:40:04 +1000 Subject: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card) Message-ID: <1440420004.55db10a4ef9e2@www.server101.com> Charles Warwick said: > I am happy to submit the changes to the > git repository if it is of any interest > to the LC team. Not the bookmarks I am hoping for, but a handler filter is definitely a great feature to have. Please do submit your work. Kay C Lan said: > I don't care if the LC Script Editor in Linux > is exactly the same as the SE experience on > OS X. Why should it matter? The SE experience > in Linux should be a Linux experience, in Win > it should be a Win experience, in OS X an > OS X experience. I care because when typing code, I don't want to have to think about what machine I am using and adjust my fingers to suits. For end user software, sure, give them the full OS experience they expect, but as a developer using a cross platform tool I don't expect the environment to needlessly slow me down when I switch machines and OS during the day, or week. J. Landman Gay said: > get the clipboardData > replace "oldvar" with "newVar" in it > set the clipboardData to it > You can right-click on any called handler > name and choose "Go to definition" in > the contextual menu. Nice tips, but still too many mouse clicks for what should be simple actions built-in actions, but I will remember them for when appropriate, thanks. -- Scott McDonald "Components, Controls, Tools and Resources for LiveCode" www.runrevplanet.com From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Mon Aug 24 11:57:09 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2015 18:57:09 +0300 Subject: Daisy Pulls it Off In-Reply-To: References: <55DAD6DF.9070600@gmail.com> <55DAD93B.9040500@livecode.com> <55DADEFC.5050409@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55DB3ED5.4060003@gmail.com> On 08/24/2015 01:43 PM, Ali Lloyd wrote: > https://livecode.com/resources/api/ > > The 'only' problem with that is one can look up language terms one knows, but one cannot really discover ones one doesn't. Richmond. From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Aug 24 12:09:08 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2015 09:09:08 -0700 Subject: Daisy Pulls it Off In-Reply-To: <55DB3ED5.4060003@gmail.com> References: <55DB3ED5.4060003@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55DB41A4.3010806@fourthworld.com> Richmond wrote: > On 08/24/2015 01:43 PM, Ali Lloyd wrote: >> https://livecode.com/resources/api/ > > The 'only' problem with that is one can look up language terms one > knows, but one cannot really discover > ones one doesn't. That's generally true for glossaries in any knowledge domain. The "See Also" section helps somewhat, but for task-driven learning tutorials are a better choice. What did you want to learn? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From devin_asay at byu.edu Mon Aug 24 13:20:25 2015 From: devin_asay at byu.edu (Devin Asay) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2015 17:20:25 +0000 Subject: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card) In-Reply-To: <808594FA-399E-4129-A09D-3C535ACAA3A8@techstrategies.com.au> References: <1440291669.55d91b556f760@www.server101.com> <37457074fb1866d997e549298ba26e97@livecode.com> <808594FA-399E-4129-A09D-3C535ACAA3A8@techstrategies.com.au> Message-ID: > On Aug 24, 2015, at 3:14 AM, Charles Warwick wrote: > > I recently modified the script editor to do exactly that, as a long list of handlers was getting very annoying, and it has been working very well. > > Here are two screenshots of the modified script editor: > > https://www.dropbox.com/s/4bsjmbftg6uue9w/LC%20handler%20filter%20list%20empty.png?dl=0 > > https://www.dropbox.com/s/b1mzgapttpcurfx/LC%20handler%20filter%20list.png?dl=0 > > I am happy to submit the changes to the git repository if it is of any interest to the LC team. > +1. Want. DNA Devin Asay Office of Digital Humanities Brigham Young University From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Mon Aug 24 13:37:17 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2015 20:37:17 +0300 Subject: Daisy Pulls it Off In-Reply-To: <55DB41A4.3010806@fourthworld.com> References: <55DB3ED5.4060003@gmail.com> <55DB41A4.3010806@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <55DB564D.5060609@gmail.com> On 08/24/2015 07:09 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Richmond wrote: > > > On 08/24/2015 01:43 PM, Ali Lloyd wrote: > >> https://livecode.com/resources/api/ > > > > The 'only' problem with that is one can look up language terms one > > knows, but one cannot really discover > > ones one doesn't. > > That's generally true for glossaries in any knowledge domain. > > The "See Also" section helps somewhat, but for task-driven learning > tutorials are a better choice. > > What did you want to learn? > "What did you want to learn?" Ha, Ha, Ha . . . the whole language forbye, what else would one want to learn? I may be daft, but I'm not a shirker! Richmond. From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Aug 24 15:05:06 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2015 12:05:06 -0700 Subject: Daisy Pulls it Off In-Reply-To: <55DB564D.5060609@gmail.com> References: <55DB564D.5060609@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55DB6AE2.3090909@fourthworld.com> Richmond wrote: > On 08/24/2015 07:09 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> The "See Also" section helps somewhat, but for task-driven learning >> tutorials are a better choice. >> >> What did you want to learn? >> > > "What did you want to learn?" > > Ha, Ha, Ha . . . the whole language forbye, what else would one want > to learn? > > I may be daft, but I'm not a shirker! Good thing, since as with any language if you want to know every word you'll need to read the entire dictionary. Most of are less ambitious. There are still things in there I've never read. For newcomers I usually suggest skimming the second and third chapters of the User Guide to get oriented, then poke around the 78 tutorials included in the install to find one that grabs their attention and play around with that, modifying it to see what happens. As they come across language elements unknown to them, at that point the Dictionary can be helpful, esp, the See Also section. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Aug 24 15:30:37 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2015 14:30:37 -0500 Subject: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card) In-Reply-To: References: <1440291669.55d91b556f760@www.server101.com> <55D92355.4030608@ahsoftware.net> <1129A920-ED76-4F86-8345-EA3EE1447D3A@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <55DB70DD.5070901@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/23/2015 11:46 PM, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 8:44 AM, J. Landman Gay > wrote: > >> Just out of curiosity, does it get better if you turn off script >> colonizing? >> > > As others have already made the cheap (and funny) one, I'll pass. Until the last pun, I wasn't reading the first syllable with a long "O" sound. Now that I am, I think you just made another pun. I have seen several scripts that were pulled from...there. > > But I didn't know that this could be done. Prefs -> Script Editor. I am likely the only person who has always kept coloRizing turned off. Coming from HyperCard, I was used to it and the rainbow hues of a colorized script distracted me. I couldn't concentrate on the content, I kept seeing the colors. I have slowly adjusted to it enough that I can read other people's multi-hued scripts but I still keep it off in my own work. I have come to realize that people generally think that's nuts. > Hilting a script was the first thing that ever convinced me I'm glad I'm not the only one who skewers scripts. :) -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From peter.brett at livecode.com Mon Aug 24 15:38:21 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2015 20:38:21 +0100 Subject: HTML5 branch; 8.0.0-dp-3 Message-ID: <11feef9d2531537313dbdb86822b1a98@livecode.com> Hi all, There's now an HTML5 branch in the main git repository. https://github.com/runrev/livecode/tree/develop-js The usual disclaimers apply (experimental, missing features, not fully integrated, experienced developers only, back up your stacks first, etc.) We're still on track to release a developer preview before the end of August. I know everyone's still waiting for LiveCode 8.0.0-dp-3. It's been delayed due to problems with CEF, but these problems appear to have (finally) been defeated. Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Engine Development Team LiveCode on reddit! From sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de Mon Aug 24 16:30:46 2015 From: sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de (sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2015 22:30:46 +0200 Subject: last control In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55DB7EF6.3010201@hrz.uni-kassel.de> use-livecode-request at lists.runrev.com schrieb: > I filed a bug > report: > > http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15763 > > > Peter > > -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Engine > Development Team and dunbarx at aol.com wrote: > Message: 14 > Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2015 13:13:38 -0400 > From:dunbarx at aol.com > To:use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Subject: Re: last control > > > This may have something to do with the fact that the "last" keyword does not work with groups. I left a note in the dictionary about this years ago. > > > Anyone think that issue might connect to this one? > > > Craig Newman It could indeed be the case that these issues are related. In September 2009 - 6 years ago - I filed a bug report "Bug 8275 - Groups: Bugs and features ("last group" broken)?" that as of today has not yet been resolved and is still listed as "pending". These and other problems IMHO belong to the substantial number of issues in Revolution/Livecode that are somewhat "fundamental" to the functionality of Livecode, but unfortunately never caught the real attention of the developer team. One can speculate about the reasons for this , e.g. whether it is a result of a very creative-spontaneous (but less organized) development strategy or even a certain disregard (or lack of knowledge) of established procedures in software development - that would have been easily accessible, but maybe were not accessed and consulted because of a certain lack of manpower. One of the basic procedures of organized software development is the application of "power testing" of newly introduced features, meaning that new features should be tested with test stacks under extreme conditions. I remember Kevin stating - about 10 years ago - that such test stacks could constitute a valuable tool for development, meaning that at that time such test stacks were not used - and I am really unsure if such development procedures are the state of the art implemented now in Livecode. Best regards, Wilhelm Sanke --- Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren gepr?ft. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Aug 24 16:38:08 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2015 13:38:08 -0700 Subject: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card) In-Reply-To: <55DB70DD.5070901@hyperactivesw.com> References: <55DB70DD.5070901@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <55DB80B0.5030705@fourthworld.com> J. Landman Gay wrote: > I am likely the only person who has always kept coloRizing turned > off. Coming from HyperCard, I was used to it and the rainbow hues > of a colorized script distracted me. I couldn't concentrate > on the content, I kept seeing the colors. There are at least two of us. One of the reasons I have it off is the same as what you noted; personally I find it more distracting than clarifying. Also performance: I do most of my scripting on a 3 GHz Haswell, and even with colorization off it struggles to keep up with even my own modest typing speed. Fortunately opportunities to optimize the SE are being investigated: -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Aug 24 19:17:07 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2015 18:17:07 -0500 Subject: last control In-Reply-To: <55DB7EF6.3010201@hrz.uni-kassel.de> References: <55DB7EF6.3010201@hrz.uni-kassel.de> Message-ID: <55DBA5F3.2090107@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/24/2015 3:30 PM, sanke at hrz.uni-kassel.de wrote: > In September 2009 - 6 years ago - I filed a bug report "Bug 8275 - > Groups: Bugs and features ("last group" broken)?" that as of today has > not yet been resolved and is still listed as "pending". I took a look, the report has 5 different issues, and it looks like they have all been resolved or aren't really bugs. Your report probably hasn't been closed because it was a composite of so many things, and not easily trackable. The group problem was fixed though. > new features > should be tested with test stacks under extreme conditions. > I remember Kevin stating - about 10 years ago - that such test stacks > could constitute a valuable tool for development, meaning that at that > time such test stacks were not used - and I am really unsure if such > development procedures are the state of the art implemented now in > Livecode. They have an automated test engine in place now. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Aug 24 19:23:49 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2015 18:23:49 -0500 Subject: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card) In-Reply-To: <55DB80B0.5030705@fourthworld.com> References: <55DB70DD.5070901@hyperactivesw.com> <55DB80B0.5030705@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <55DBA785.4070802@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/24/2015 3:38 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Also performance: I do most of my scripting on a 3 GHz Haswell, and even > with colorization off it struggles to keep up with even my own modest > typing speed. So you notice a difference then? I still haven't worked with my humongous script in LC 7 so I haven't tested. But I don't see any time difference between 6 & 7 with my shorter scripts. I'll be curious to hear if Dr Hawkins sees any improvement. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Tue Aug 25 01:15:33 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2015 22:15:33 -0700 Subject: Script editor handler filter [was: Re: Script Editor future] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55DBF9F5.7040208@fourthworld.com> Charles Warwick wrote: >>> I recently modified the script editor to do exactly that, as a long >>> list of handlers was getting very annoying, and it has been working >>> very well. ... >>> I am happy to submit the changes to the git repository if it is of >>> any interest to the LC team. >> >> That looks like exactly what I had in mind! Great work. This is >> exactly the kind of change that we'd love to be able to accept into >> our git repository. >> >> Unfortunately, we aren't currently able to accept changes to binary >> stack files in the git repository, because we don't have the right >> tools to be able to review the changes. >> >> I'm really disappointed, because I'd love to be able to incorporate >> your changes. We really need to improve our tools in order to make >> this possible! >> > > I expected there might be some issues around that. > > If it helps, I am happy to send through a list of the changes in > textual format via e-mail. I appreciate that is a more manual > process from your side, so may not be suitable. If the stack is shareable feel free to email a zipped copy to me. It'd be a good test case for a stack diff tool I have somewhere on my hard drive.... -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Tue Aug 25 01:52:43 2015 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2015 13:52:43 +0800 Subject: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card) In-Reply-To: <1440420004.55db10a4ef9e2@www.server101.com> References: <1440420004.55db10a4ef9e2@www.server101.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 8:40 PM, RunRevPlanet wrote: > > I care because when typing code, I don't want to have to think about what > machine I am using and adjust my fingers to suits. > Sorry I missed it, excluding LC, which IDE/Text Editor do you use on Linux, which one on Win and which one on OS X. Is it/they any good and is it/they any better than the LC Script Editor? From charles at techstrategies.com.au Tue Aug 25 03:26:20 2015 From: charles at techstrategies.com.au (Charles Warwick) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2015 17:26:20 +1000 Subject: Script editor handler filter [was: Re: Script Editor future] In-Reply-To: <55DBF9F5.7040208@fourthworld.com> References: <55DBF9F5.7040208@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <660A9966-ACE7-42E7-9799-D15BE288CAE1@techstrategies.com.au> > > > > I expected there might be some issues around that. > > > > If it helps, I am happy to send through a list of the changes in > > textual format via e-mail. I appreciate that is a more manual > > process from your side, so may not be suitable. > > If the stack is shareable feel free to email a zipped copy to me. It'd be a good test case for a stack diff tool I have somewhere on my hard drive?. Thanks for the offer. I kept track of my changes in a text file so that I could re-apply it in later versions if the stack ever changed, so I only needed to tidy them up before posting them here. Here are the changes: --- Open ide/Toolset/palettes/revscripteditor.rev in LC. For an installed copy of LC 7 on Mac, this is in: /Applications/LiveCode 7.x.x/Contents/Tools/Toolset/palettes/ I don?t have Windows, but I assume the directory would be something like: C:/Program Files/Run Rev/LiveCode 7.x.x/Toolset/palettes/ Modify command "update" of button "Handler List" of group "Behaviors" (In LC8, this behavior is stored in a script only stack in ide/Toolset/palettes/script editor/behaviors/revsehandlerlistbehavior.livecodescript) After the following code: if sePrefGet("editor,sortHandlerList") is "alphabetical" then sort tHandlers by word 2 of each else if sePrefGet("editor,sortHandlerList") is "order-of-appearence" then # OK-2008-07-21 : Bug 6805 - Sort the handlers by their line number sort tHandlers numeric by word 3 of each else # OK-2009-03-03 : Bug 7690 - We could change this in the engine, but considering that in the default # settings we sort alphabetically anyway, it probably doesn't make much difference to just sort here. # This will produce an ordering F, G, H, PF, PH, S, which may need to be adjusted using a custom search # function here. sort tHandlers numeric by handlerTypeSortCallback(word 1 of each) end if Add the following lines: # Filter the list of handlers shown by the contents of the Filter Handler field if it has a value. if tHandlers is not empty then if the cApplyFilter of field "Filter Handler" of group "Left Bar" is "true" and field "Filter Handler" of group "Left Bar" is not empty then put field "Filter Handler" of group "Left Bar" into tFilterHandler filter tHandlers matching "*" & tFilterHandler & "*" end if end if ? All other changes are performed in the substack ?revSETemplate?... Modify command "resize" of group "Left Bar" of card "Main" of stack "revSETemplate" to be: command resize # Ensure the Filter Handler field is displayed above the list of handlers. set the width of field "Filter Handler" of me to the width of me set the top of field "Filter Handler" of me to the top of me set the left of field "Filter Handler" of me to the left of me set the width of group "Left Handler List" of me to the width of me set the height of group "Left Handler List" of me to the height of me - the height of field "Filter Handler" set the top of group "Left Handler List" of me to the bottom of field "Filter Handler" of me set the left of group "Left Handler List" of me to the left of me send "resize" to group "Left Handler List" of me end resize -- Add a field called "Filter Handler" to group "Left Bar" of card "Main" of stack "revSETemplate" by running the following commands from the message box: (There is no need to layout the field on the card, as the resize handler above is called when the script editor is opened as well as resized) create field "Filter Handler" in group "Left Bar" of card "Main" of stack "revSETemplate" set the dontWrap of field "Filter Handler" of group "Left Bar" of card "Main" of stack "revSETemplate" to false set the text of field "Filter Handler" of group "Left Bar" of card "Main" of stack "revSETemplate" to "Filter handler list..." set the textColor of field "Filter Handler" of group "Left Bar" of card "Main" of stack "revSETemplate" to 192,192,192 set the height of field "Filter Handler" of group "Left Bar" of card "Main" of stack "revSETemplate" to 24 edit the script of field "Filter Handler" of group "Left Bar" of card "Main" of stack "revSETemplate" Add the following to the field's script: on openField # If there is no filter currently in the field, set the field to empty. if the cApplyFilter of me is not "true" then put empty into me set the cApplyFilter of me to "true" set the textcolor of me to black end if end openField on textChanged send "update" to group "Left Handler List" of group "Left Bar" in 0 milliseconds end textChanged on returnInField select char 1 to -1 of me end returnInField on enterInField select char 1 to -1 of me end enterInField on closeField # If the field is empty, then show the default text and set the cApplyFilter flag to ensure the handler list isn't filtered. if the text of me is empty then set the cApplyFilter of me to "false" put "Filter handler list..." into me set the textcolor of me to 192,192,192 end if end closeField on exitField # If the field is empty, then show the default text and set the cApplyFilter flag to ensure the handler list isn't filtered. if the text of me is empty then set the cApplyFilter of me to "false" put "Filter handler list..." into me set the textcolor of me to 192,192,192 end if end exitField -- From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Tue Aug 25 04:58:00 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2015 11:58:00 +0300 Subject: Daisy Pulls it Off In-Reply-To: <55DB6AE2.3090909@fourthworld.com> References: <55DB564D.5060609@gmail.com> <55DB6AE2.3090909@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <55DC2E18.2060109@gmail.com> On 08/24/2015 10:05 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Richmond wrote: > > > On 08/24/2015 07:09 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > >> The "See Also" section helps somewhat, but for task-driven learning > >> tutorials are a better choice. > >> > >> What did you want to learn? > >> > > > > "What did you want to learn?" > > > > Ha, Ha, Ha . . . the whole language forbye, what else would one want > > to learn? > > > > I may be daft, but I'm not a shirker! > > Good thing, since as with any language if you want to know every word > you'll need to read the entire dictionary. > > Most of are less ambitious. There are still things in there I've > never read. > > For newcomers I usually suggest skimming the second and third chapters > of the User Guide to get oriented, then poke around the 78 tutorials > included in the install to find one that grabs their attention and > play around with that, modifying it to see what happens. As they come > across language elements unknown to them, at that point the Dictionary > can be helpful, esp, the See Also section. > I am the proud owner (!!!!!) of a 2 volume listing of all the language terms in RunRev/LiveCode 1.1.1, where one can read through (if one is so inclined) ALL the terms in the language as it was at version 1.1.1. It would be useful for learners if there were an equivalent list for versions 7.x/8.x and for the new .lc language. A would-be learner of the new language appears to have no entry point. Richmond. From dave at applicationinsight.com Tue Aug 25 07:08:46 2015 From: dave at applicationinsight.com (Dave Kilroy) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2015 04:08:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: video conferencing with LiveCode? Message-ID: <1440500926518-4695564.post@n4.nabble.com> Hi all Just received a query about an app/service that would allow face-to-face chat... Have any of you managed to do this in LiveCode? And/or could you recommend a service a LiveCode app could hook into? Thanks! Dave ----- "The difference between genius and stupidity is; genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/video-conferencing-with-LiveCode-tp4695564.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From mark at sorcery-ltd.co.uk Tue Aug 25 09:10:07 2015 From: mark at sorcery-ltd.co.uk (Mark Wilcox) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2015 14:10:07 +0100 Subject: video conferencing with LiveCode? In-Reply-To: <1440500926518-4695564.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1440500926518-4695564.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <1440508207.2338073.365488065.1D2B28A9@webmail.messagingengine.com> > Just received a query about an app/service that would allow face-to-face > chat... > > Have any of you managed to do this in LiveCode? And/or could you > recommend a > service a LiveCode app could hook into? Almost all of the video chat APIs are built on WebRTC these days. That's an open standard implemented in some (but not all - Safari is notably absent) of the major browsers. There are native SDKs for mobile platforms, plugins for older versions of Internet Explorer etc. It's not currently enabled in the embedded browser in LiveCode (for desktop platforms) as far as I know. You certainly could implement WebRTC for LiveCode but it probably makes more sense to do this as a web app. Mark -- Mark Wilcox mark at sorcery-ltd.co.uk From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Tue Aug 25 09:30:34 2015 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2015 09:30:34 -0400 Subject: Script editor handler filter [was: Re: Script Editor future] In-Reply-To: <660A9966-ACE7-42E7-9799-D15BE288CAE1@techstrategies.com.au> References: <55DBF9F5.7040208@fourthworld.com> <660A9966-ACE7-42E7-9799-D15BE288CAE1@techstrategies.com.au> Message-ID: Why not put in a bug report with an enhancement request with the changes? I've supplied a few such improvements that have been accepted. On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 3:26 AM, Charles Warwick < charles at techstrategies.com.au> wrote: > > > > > > I expected there might be some issues around that. > > > > > > If it helps, I am happy to send through a list of the changes in > > > textual format via e-mail. I appreciate that is a more manual > > > process from your side, so may not be suitable. > > > > If the stack is shareable feel free to email a zipped copy to me. It'd > be a good test case for a stack diff tool I have somewhere on my hard > drive?. > > > Thanks for the offer. I kept track of my changes in a text file so that I > could re-apply it in later versions if the stack ever changed, so I only > needed to tidy them up before posting them here. > > Here are the changes: > > --- > > Open ide/Toolset/palettes/revscripteditor.rev in LC. > > For an installed copy of LC 7 on Mac, this is in: /Applications/LiveCode > 7.x.x/Contents/Tools/Toolset/palettes/ > > I don?t have Windows, but I assume the directory would be something like: > C:/Program Files/Run Rev/LiveCode 7.x.x/Toolset/palettes/ > > Modify command "update" of button "Handler List" of group "Behaviors" > > (In LC8, this behavior is stored in a script only stack in > ide/Toolset/palettes/script > editor/behaviors/revsehandlerlistbehavior.livecodescript) > > After the following code: > > if sePrefGet("editor,sortHandlerList") is "alphabetical" then > sort tHandlers by word 2 of each > else if sePrefGet("editor,sortHandlerList") is "order-of-appearence" > then > # OK-2008-07-21 : Bug 6805 - Sort the handlers by their line number > sort tHandlers numeric by word 3 of each > else > # OK-2009-03-03 : Bug 7690 - We could change this in the engine, but > considering that in the default > # settings we sort alphabetically anyway, it probably doesn't make > much difference to just sort here. > # This will produce an ordering F, G, H, PF, PH, S, which may need > to be adjusted using a custom search > # function here. > sort tHandlers numeric by handlerTypeSortCallback(word 1 of each) > end if > > Add the following lines: > > # Filter the list of handlers shown by the contents of the Filter > Handler field if it has a value. > if tHandlers is not empty then > if the cApplyFilter of field "Filter Handler" of group "Left Bar" is > "true" and field "Filter Handler" of group "Left Bar" is not empty then > put field "Filter Handler" of group "Left Bar" into tFilterHandler > filter tHandlers matching "*" & tFilterHandler & "*" > end if > end if > > ? > > All other changes are performed in the substack ?revSETemplate?... > > Modify command "resize" of group "Left Bar" of card "Main" of stack > "revSETemplate" to be: > > command resize > # Ensure the Filter Handler field is displayed above the list of > handlers. > set the width of field "Filter Handler" of me to the width of me > set the top of field "Filter Handler" of me to the top of me > set the left of field "Filter Handler" of me to the left of me > set the width of group "Left Handler List" of me to the width of me > set the height of group "Left Handler List" of me to the height of > me - the height of field "Filter Handler" > set the top of group "Left Handler List" of me to the bottom of > field "Filter Handler" of me > set the left of group "Left Handler List" of me to the left of me > > send "resize" to group "Left Handler List" of me > end resize > > -- > > Add a field called "Filter Handler" to group "Left Bar" of card "Main" of > stack "revSETemplate" by running the following commands from the message > box: > > (There is no need to layout the field on the card, as the resize handler > above is called when the script editor is opened as well as resized) > > create field "Filter Handler" in group "Left Bar" of card "Main" of > stack "revSETemplate" > set the dontWrap of field "Filter Handler" of group "Left Bar" of card > "Main" of stack "revSETemplate" to false > set the text of field "Filter Handler" of group "Left Bar" of card > "Main" of stack "revSETemplate" to "Filter handler list..." > set the textColor of field "Filter Handler" of group "Left Bar" of card > "Main" of stack "revSETemplate" to 192,192,192 > set the height of field "Filter Handler" of group "Left Bar" of card > "Main" of stack "revSETemplate" to 24 > > edit the script of field "Filter Handler" of group "Left Bar" of card > "Main" of stack "revSETemplate" > > Add the following to the field's script: > > on openField > # If there is no filter currently in the field, set the field to > empty. > if the cApplyFilter of me is not "true" then > put empty into me > set the cApplyFilter of me to "true" > set the textcolor of me to black > end if > end openField > > on textChanged > send "update" to group "Left Handler List" of group "Left Bar" in 0 > milliseconds > end textChanged > > on returnInField > select char 1 to -1 of me > end returnInField > > on enterInField > select char 1 to -1 of me > end enterInField > > on closeField > # If the field is empty, then show the default text and set the > cApplyFilter flag to ensure the handler list isn't filtered. > if the text of me is empty then > set the cApplyFilter of me to "false" > put "Filter handler list..." into me > set the textcolor of me to 192,192,192 > end if > end closeField > > on exitField > # If the field is empty, then show the default text and set the > cApplyFilter flag to ensure the handler list isn't filtered. > if the text of me is empty then > set the cApplyFilter of me to "false" > put "Filter handler list..." into me > set the textcolor of me to 192,192,192 > end if > end exitField > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Tue Aug 25 12:54:31 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2015 19:54:31 +0300 Subject: HTML5 branch; 8.0.0-dp-3 In-Reply-To: <11feef9d2531537313dbdb86822b1a98@livecode.com> References: <11feef9d2531537313dbdb86822b1a98@livecode.com> Message-ID: <55DC9DC7.30609@gmail.com> On 08/24/2015 10:38 PM, Peter TB Brett wrote: > Hi all, > > There's now an HTML5 branch in the main git repository. > > https://github.com/runrev/livecode/tree/develop-js > > The usual disclaimers apply (experimental, missing features, not fully > integrated, experienced developers only, back up your stacks first, etc.) > > We're still on track to release a developer preview before the end of > August. > > > I know everyone's still waiting for LiveCode 8.0.0-dp-3. It's been > delayed due to problems with CEF, but these problems appear to have > (finally) been defeated. > > Peter > That's "nasty": it has got us all slobbering with anticipation . . . Richmond. From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Tue Aug 25 13:24:16 2015 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2015 13:24:16 -0400 Subject: HTML5 branch; 8.0.0-dp-3 In-Reply-To: <55DC9DC7.30609@gmail.com> References: <11feef9d2531537313dbdb86822b1a98@livecode.com> <55DC9DC7.30609@gmail.com> Message-ID: I was getting a little concerned about the radio silence. I can't wait to have another 8 to play with... On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 12:54 PM, Richmond wrote: > On 08/24/2015 10:38 PM, Peter TB Brett wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> There's now an HTML5 branch in the main git repository. >> >> https://github.com/runrev/livecode/tree/develop-js >> >> The usual disclaimers apply (experimental, missing features, not fully >> integrated, experienced developers only, back up your stacks first, etc.) >> >> We're still on track to release a developer preview before the end of >> August. >> >> >> I know everyone's still waiting for LiveCode 8.0.0-dp-3. It's been >> delayed due to problems with CEF, but these problems appear to have >> (finally) been defeated. >> >> Peter >> >> > That's "nasty": it has got us all slobbering with anticipation . . . > > Richmond. > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From peter.brett at livecode.com Tue Aug 25 13:28:46 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2015 19:28:46 +0200 Subject: HTML5 branch; 8.0.0-dp-3 In-Reply-To: References: <11feef9d2531537313dbdb86822b1a98@livecode.com> <55DC9DC7.30609@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2c550dc16de83d31c052635c39b05320@livecode.com> On 2015-08-25 19:24, Mike Kerner wrote: > On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 12:54 PM, Richmond > > wrote: > >> On 08/24/2015 10:38 PM, Peter TB Brett wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> There's now an HTML5 branch in the main git repository. >>> >>> https://github.com/runrev/livecode/tree/develop-js >>> >>> The usual disclaimers apply (experimental, missing features, not >>> fully >>> integrated, experienced developers only, back up your stacks first, >>> etc.) >>> >>> We're still on track to release a developer preview before the end of >>> August. >>> >>> >>> I know everyone's still waiting for LiveCode 8.0.0-dp-3. It's been >>> delayed due to problems with CEF, but these problems appear to have >>> (finally) been defeated. >>> >>> Peter >>> >>> >> That's "nasty": it has got us all slobbering with anticipation . . . >> > I was getting a little concerned about the radio silence. I can't wait > to > have another 8 to play with... Sadly, we found some more problems. And then some more after that. We're looking forward to the next release even more than you are! Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Engine Development Team LiveCode on reddit! From feed at smpcsupport.com Tue Aug 25 17:42:21 2015 From: feed at smpcsupport.com (RunRevPlanet) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2015 07:42:21 +1000 Subject: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card) Message-ID: <1440538941.55dce13d21828@www.server101.com> Kay C Lan said: > which IDE/Text Editor do you use on Linux, > which one on Win and which one on OS X. For all three I use Geany. http://www.geany.org/ Same IDE on all platforms. Same features on all platforms, same keyboard shortcuts. I can jump from one machine/OS to another and simply keep working, without having to think about what can or can't be done on each system. It is fairly minimalistic, but it still has a lot more editing features that programmers want than LiveCode. It also has a plugin system, that includes macros. Open Source too. Rightly or wrongly, it is the yardstick that I compare the LiveCode Script Editor to. Another alternative, for when I sometimes want a more modern, full featured experience is the WebStorm IDE: https://www.jetbrains.com/webstorm/ It is based on Java so it runs the same on all platforms, without being as bloated as Eclipse. It is not Open Source, but still good if you don't mind it using Java. But usually I find myself using Geany more as I can easily run it from a USB stick and it does most of what I expect. -- Scott McDonald "Components, Controls, Tools and Resources for LiveCode" www.runrevplanet.com From charles at techstrategies.com.au Wed Aug 26 02:07:00 2015 From: charles at techstrategies.com.au (Charles Warwick) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2015 16:07:00 +1000 Subject: Script editor handler filter [was: Re: Script Editor future] In-Reply-To: References: <55DBF9F5.7040208@fourthworld.com> <660A9966-ACE7-42E7-9799-D15BE288CAE1@techstrategies.com.au> Message-ID: <198DD59B-F374-493C-800A-D59A4214DCFE@techstrategies.com.au> Good idea? request submitted: http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15774 > On 25 Aug 2015, at 11:30 pm, Mike Kerner wrote: > > Why not put in a bug report with an enhancement request with the changes? > I've supplied a few such improvements that have been accepted. > > On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 3:26 AM, Charles Warwick < > charles at techstrategies.com.au> wrote: > >>>> >>>> I expected there might be some issues around that. >>>> >>>> If it helps, I am happy to send through a list of the changes in >>>> textual format via e-mail. I appreciate that is a more manual >>>> process from your side, so may not be suitable. >>> >>> If the stack is shareable feel free to email a zipped copy to me. It'd >> be a good test case for a stack diff tool I have somewhere on my hard >> drive?. >> >> >> Thanks for the offer. I kept track of my changes in a text file so that I >> could re-apply it in later versions if the stack ever changed, so I only >> needed to tidy them up before posting them here. >> >> Here are the changes: >> >> --- >> >> Open ide/Toolset/palettes/revscripteditor.rev in LC. >> >> For an installed copy of LC 7 on Mac, this is in: /Applications/LiveCode >> 7.x.x/Contents/Tools/Toolset/palettes/ >> >> I don?t have Windows, but I assume the directory would be something like: >> C:/Program Files/Run Rev/LiveCode 7.x.x/Toolset/palettes/ >> >> Modify command "update" of button "Handler List" of group "Behaviors" >> >> (In LC8, this behavior is stored in a script only stack in >> ide/Toolset/palettes/script >> editor/behaviors/revsehandlerlistbehavior.livecodescript) >> >> After the following code: >> >> if sePrefGet("editor,sortHandlerList") is "alphabetical" then >> sort tHandlers by word 2 of each >> else if sePrefGet("editor,sortHandlerList") is "order-of-appearence" >> then >> # OK-2008-07-21 : Bug 6805 - Sort the handlers by their line number >> sort tHandlers numeric by word 3 of each >> else >> # OK-2009-03-03 : Bug 7690 - We could change this in the engine, but >> considering that in the default >> # settings we sort alphabetically anyway, it probably doesn't make >> much difference to just sort here. >> # This will produce an ordering F, G, H, PF, PH, S, which may need >> to be adjusted using a custom search >> # function here. >> sort tHandlers numeric by handlerTypeSortCallback(word 1 of each) >> end if >> >> Add the following lines: >> >> # Filter the list of handlers shown by the contents of the Filter >> Handler field if it has a value. >> if tHandlers is not empty then >> if the cApplyFilter of field "Filter Handler" of group "Left Bar" is >> "true" and field "Filter Handler" of group "Left Bar" is not empty then >> put field "Filter Handler" of group "Left Bar" into tFilterHandler >> filter tHandlers matching "*" & tFilterHandler & "*" >> end if >> end if >> >> ? >> >> All other changes are performed in the substack ?revSETemplate?... >> >> Modify command "resize" of group "Left Bar" of card "Main" of stack >> "revSETemplate" to be: >> >> command resize >> # Ensure the Filter Handler field is displayed above the list of >> handlers. >> set the width of field "Filter Handler" of me to the width of me >> set the top of field "Filter Handler" of me to the top of me >> set the left of field "Filter Handler" of me to the left of me >> set the width of group "Left Handler List" of me to the width of me >> set the height of group "Left Handler List" of me to the height of >> me - the height of field "Filter Handler" >> set the top of group "Left Handler List" of me to the bottom of >> field "Filter Handler" of me >> set the left of group "Left Handler List" of me to the left of me >> >> send "resize" to group "Left Handler List" of me >> end resize >> >> -- >> >> Add a field called "Filter Handler" to group "Left Bar" of card "Main" of >> stack "revSETemplate" by running the following commands from the message >> box: >> >> (There is no need to layout the field on the card, as the resize handler >> above is called when the script editor is opened as well as resized) >> >> create field "Filter Handler" in group "Left Bar" of card "Main" of >> stack "revSETemplate" >> set the dontWrap of field "Filter Handler" of group "Left Bar" of card >> "Main" of stack "revSETemplate" to false >> set the text of field "Filter Handler" of group "Left Bar" of card >> "Main" of stack "revSETemplate" to "Filter handler list..." >> set the textColor of field "Filter Handler" of group "Left Bar" of card >> "Main" of stack "revSETemplate" to 192,192,192 >> set the height of field "Filter Handler" of group "Left Bar" of card >> "Main" of stack "revSETemplate" to 24 >> >> edit the script of field "Filter Handler" of group "Left Bar" of card >> "Main" of stack "revSETemplate" >> >> Add the following to the field's script: >> >> on openField >> # If there is no filter currently in the field, set the field to >> empty. >> if the cApplyFilter of me is not "true" then >> put empty into me >> set the cApplyFilter of me to "true" >> set the textcolor of me to black >> end if >> end openField >> >> on textChanged >> send "update" to group "Left Handler List" of group "Left Bar" in 0 >> milliseconds >> end textChanged >> >> on returnInField >> select char 1 to -1 of me >> end returnInField >> >> on enterInField >> select char 1 to -1 of me >> end enterInField >> >> on closeField >> # If the field is empty, then show the default text and set the >> cApplyFilter flag to ensure the handler list isn't filtered. >> if the text of me is empty then >> set the cApplyFilter of me to "false" >> put "Filter handler list..." into me >> set the textcolor of me to 192,192,192 >> end if >> end closeField >> >> on exitField >> # If the field is empty, then show the default text and set the >> cApplyFilter flag to ensure the handler list isn't filtered. >> if the text of me is empty then >> set the cApplyFilter of me to "false" >> put "Filter handler list..." into me >> set the textcolor of me to 192,192,192 >> end if >> end exitField >> >> -- >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Wed Aug 26 02:14:49 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2015 23:14:49 -0700 Subject: Script editor handler filter [was: Re: Script Editor future] In-Reply-To: <198DD59B-F374-493C-800A-D59A4214DCFE@techstrategies.com.au> References: <55DBF9F5.7040208@fourthworld.com> <660A9966-ACE7-42E7-9799-D15BE288CAE1@techstrategies.com.au> <198DD59B-F374-493C-800A-D59A4214DCFE@techstrategies.com.au> Message-ID: <55DD5959.2040807@ahsoftware.net> On 08/25/2015 11:07 PM, Charles Warwick wrote: > Good idea? request submitted: > > http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15774 Excellent - Richard: is 'IDE Enhancement' a good flag in addition to 'Bugfix' to get team attention? -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Aug 26 02:58:17 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2015 23:58:17 -0700 Subject: Script editor handler filter [was: Re: Script Editor future] In-Reply-To: <55DD5959.2040807@ahsoftware.net> References: <55DD5959.2040807@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <55DD6389.1030107@fourthworld.com> Mark Wieder wrote: > On 08/25/2015 11:07 PM, Charles Warwick wrote: >> Good idea? request submitted: >> >> http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15774 > > Excellent - Richard: is 'IDE Enhancement' a good flag in addition to > 'Bugfix' to get team attention? "IDE" and "Enhancement" are options on the form. When a completed solution is provided we've been prefixing the Summary with "FIX:". -- Richard Gaskin LiveCode Community Manager richard at livecode.com From charles at techstrategies.com.au Wed Aug 26 03:07:18 2015 From: charles at techstrategies.com.au (Charles Warwick) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2015 17:07:18 +1000 Subject: Script editor handler filter [was: Re: Script Editor future] In-Reply-To: <55DD6389.1030107@fourthworld.com> References: <55DD5959.2040807@ahsoftware.net> <55DD6389.1030107@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Should I change the description to ?FIX: Handler List Filter?? > On 26 Aug 2015, at 4:58 pm, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > Mark Wieder wrote: > > On 08/25/2015 11:07 PM, Charles Warwick wrote: > >> Good idea? request submitted: > >> > >> http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15774 > > > > Excellent - Richard: is 'IDE Enhancement' a good flag in addition to > > 'Bugfix' to get team attention? > > "IDE" and "Enhancement" are options on the form. > > When a completed solution is provided we've been prefixing the Summary with "FIX:". > > -- > Richard Gaskin > LiveCode Community Manager > richard at livecode.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dave at applicationinsight.com Wed Aug 26 03:52:35 2015 From: dave at applicationinsight.com (Dave Kilroy) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2015 00:52:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: video conferencing with LiveCode? In-Reply-To: <1440508207.2338073.365488065.1D2B28A9@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <1440500926518-4695564.post@n4.nabble.com> <1440508207.2338073.365488065.1D2B28A9@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <1440575555573-4695575.post@n4.nabble.com> Thanks Mark, very useful info - if the client goes ahead the project will implemented in stages (text messaging first, video later) by which time we should have HTML5... If and when I ever get video conferencing I'll report back here Kind regards Dave Mark Wilcox-2 wrote > Almost all of the video chat APIs are built on WebRTC these days. That's > an open standard implemented in some (but not all - Safari is notably > absent) of the major browsers. There are native SDKs for mobile > platforms, plugins for older versions of Internet Explorer etc. > > It's not currently enabled in the embedded browser in LiveCode (for > desktop platforms) as far as I know. > > You certainly could implement WebRTC for LiveCode but it probably makes > more sense to do this as a web app. ----- "The difference between genius and stupidity is; genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/video-conferencing-with-LiveCode-tp4695564p4695575.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Wed Aug 26 05:57:11 2015 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2015 17:57:11 +0800 Subject: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card) In-Reply-To: <1440538941.55dce13d21828@www.server101.com> References: <1440538941.55dce13d21828@www.server101.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 5:42 AM, RunRevPlanet wrote: > > For all three I use Geany. > > > It's not clear to me what integration Geany and Webstorm have built in, but let's dream and say LiveCode allowed you to use Geany as it's Script Editior. This would be a bad thing because? From peter.brett at livecode.com Wed Aug 26 06:06:38 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2015 11:06:38 +0100 Subject: Script editor handler filter [was: Re: Script Editor future] In-Reply-To: References: <55DD5959.2040807@ahsoftware.net> <55DD6389.1030107@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <55DD8FAE.1010500@livecode.com> On 26/08/2015 08:07, Charles Warwick wrote: > Should I change the description to ?FIX: Handler List Filter?? > >> On 26 Aug 2015, at 4:58 pm, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> >> Mark Wieder wrote: >>> On 08/25/2015 11:07 PM, Charles Warwick wrote: >>>> Good idea? request submitted: >>>> >>>> http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15774 >>> >>> Excellent - Richard: is 'IDE Enhancement' a good flag in addition to >>> 'Bugfix' to get team attention? >> >> "IDE" and "Enhancement" are options on the form. >> >> When a completed solution is provided we've been prefixing the Summary with "FIX:". Don't worry -- the bugfix has got my attention (especially because it's something I really want to include anyway!) The only reason that I haven't dealt with it already is that I'm busy writing HTML5 documentation [1]. Peter [1] For those who enjoy spoilers: https://github.com/runrev/livecode-ide/blob/develop/Documentation/guides/HTML5%20Deployment.md -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Engine Development Team LiveCode on reddit: https://reddit.com/r/livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Aug 26 06:46:18 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2015 13:46:18 +0300 Subject: Script editor handler filter [was: Re: Script Editor future] In-Reply-To: <55DD8FAE.1010500@livecode.com> References: <55DD5959.2040807@ahsoftware.net> <55DD6389.1030107@fourthworld.com> <55DD8FAE.1010500@livecode.com> Message-ID: <55DD98FA.6070109@gmail.com> On 08/26/2015 01:06 PM, Peter TB Brett wrote: > > [1] For those who enjoy spoilers: > https://github.com/runrev/livecode-ide/blob/develop/Documentation/guides/HTML5%20Deployment.md > How do you read .md files? Richmond. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Aug 26 06:48:43 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2015 13:48:43 +0300 Subject: Script editor handler filter [was: Re: Script Editor future] In-Reply-To: <55DD98FA.6070109@gmail.com> References: <55DD5959.2040807@ahsoftware.net> <55DD6389.1030107@fourthworld.com> <55DD8FAE.1010500@livecode.com> <55DD98FA.6070109@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55DD998B.2030902@gmail.com> On 08/26/2015 01:46 PM, Richmond wrote: > > > On 08/26/2015 01:06 PM, Peter TB Brett wrote: > > >> >> [1] For those who enjoy spoilers: >> https://github.com/runrev/livecode-ide/blob/develop/Documentation/guides/HTML5%20Deployment.md >> > > > How do you read .md files? > > Richmond. https://addons.mozilla.org/en-us/firefox/addon/markdown-viewer/reviews/ From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Wed Aug 26 06:57:49 2015 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2015 06:57:49 -0400 Subject: Script editor handler filter [was: Re: Script Editor future] In-Reply-To: <55DD998B.2030902@gmail.com> References: <55DD5959.2040807@ahsoftware.net> <55DD6389.1030107@fourthworld.com> <55DD8FAE.1010500@livecode.com> <55DD98FA.6070109@gmail.com> <55DD998B.2030902@gmail.com> Message-ID: Yeah, let's please use FIX: with or without the brackets (i.e. I've been marking mine [FIX:]), so we can find them easier... On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 6:48 AM, Richmond wrote: > > > On 08/26/2015 01:46 PM, Richmond wrote: > >> >> >> On 08/26/2015 01:06 PM, Peter TB Brett wrote: >> >> >> >>> >>> [1] For those who enjoy spoilers: >>> https://github.com/runrev/livecode-ide/blob/develop/Documentation/guides/HTML5%20Deployment.md >>> >>> >> >> How do you read .md files? >> >> Richmond. >> > > > https://addons.mozilla.org/en-us/firefox/addon/markdown-viewer/reviews/ > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From charles at techstrategies.com.au Wed Aug 26 08:33:30 2015 From: charles at techstrategies.com.au (Charles Warwick) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2015 22:33:30 +1000 Subject: Building from develop on OS X Message-ID: After causing myself some problems with my local copy of the develop branch of LiveCode, I pulled down a fresh copy of the repo today and built it under OS X. While it built successfully and starts ok, the extensions manager only opens as an empty window, and none of the widgets show in the tools palette (the classic objects do show). Has anyone else tried to build the develop branch today under OS X? I am trying to work out if I?ve messed up something on my local machine.. My build from about a week ago was working fine, and I built it under Linux today also with no problems (though not with at exact same commit level). Cheers, Charles. From ali.lloyd at livecode.com Wed Aug 26 09:38:12 2015 From: ali.lloyd at livecode.com (Ali Lloyd) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2015 13:38:12 +0000 Subject: Building from develop on OS X In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It sounds like you haven't built the revZip target (and probably the other externals too). Try building the LiveCode-all target and then run development again. Ali On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 1:33 PM Charles Warwick < charles at techstrategies.com.au> wrote: > After causing myself some problems with my local copy of the develop > branch of LiveCode, I pulled down a fresh copy of the repo today and built > it under OS X. > > While it built successfully and starts ok, the extensions manager only > opens as an empty window, and none of the widgets show in the tools palette > (the classic objects do show). > > Has anyone else tried to build the develop branch today under OS X? I am > trying to work out if I?ve messed up something on my local machine.. > > My build from about a week ago was working fine, and I built it under > Linux today also with no problems (though not with at exact same commit > level). > > Cheers, > > Charles. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ali.lloyd at livecode.com Wed Aug 26 09:39:38 2015 From: ali.lloyd at livecode.com (Ali Lloyd) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2015 13:39:38 +0000 Subject: Building from develop on OS X In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ah actually, on second thoughts it is probably the extensions target that you need to build. On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 2:43 PM Ali Lloyd wrote: > It sounds like you haven't built the revZip target (and probably the other > externals too). Try building the LiveCode-all target and then run > development again. > > Ali > > On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 1:33 PM Charles Warwick < > charles at techstrategies.com.au> wrote: > >> After causing myself some problems with my local copy of the develop >> branch of LiveCode, I pulled down a fresh copy of the repo today and built >> it under OS X. >> >> While it built successfully and starts ok, the extensions manager only >> opens as an empty window, and none of the widgets show in the tools palette >> (the classic objects do show). >> >> Has anyone else tried to build the develop branch today under OS X? I am >> trying to work out if I?ve messed up something on my local machine.. >> >> My build from about a week ago was working fine, and I built it under >> Linux today also with no problems (though not with at exact same commit >> level). >> >> Cheers, >> >> Charles. >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > From paul at smarttsoftware.co.uk Wed Aug 26 10:57:42 2015 From: paul at smarttsoftware.co.uk (Paul Richards) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2015 14:57:42 +0000 Subject: v8 DP3 Message-ID: Downloads for this version have gone live.. I'm sure LC will follow up with an official announcement and changelog shortly Paul :) From fraser.gordon at livecode.com Wed Aug 26 11:00:51 2015 From: fraser.gordon at livecode.com (Fraser Gordon) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2015 16:00:51 +0100 Subject: Release: LiveCode 8.0 DP 3 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <582C38B5-36AA-42E5-B13A-304C93411F2E@livecode.com> Dear list members, We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 8.0 DP 3. Warning: this is not a stable release. Please ensure you back up your stacks before testing them. ***Known Issues***: - iOS device builds are currently broken. However it is still possible to test iOS apps in the simulator. - revBrowser fails to initialise in the 32-bit Linux engine. This causes the dictionary to fail to render. The next DP of LiveCode 8.0 will be released shortly. LiveCode 8.0 DP 3 contains the following changes: Composed widgets The ability to compose widget objects has been added. Widgets can either be 'host' widgets, created when a widget is directly embedded in a stack, or 'child' widgets which are created when a widget is used as a child widget within another widget. Menu bar The menubar has been made a script-only stack to facilitate bugfixes and community contributions. Users should not notice much difference in terms of its appearance. Some of the menu items have been changed, however: The 'New Mainstack' item now has a submenu with a range of size choices, as well as the option to create a script-only stack. Selecting script-only stack will prompt a choice of name, and subsequently open the stack in the script editor. We have centralised the building and handling of contextual menus in the menubar script, thereby making per-object contextual menus display and behave consistently throughout the IDE. The Object > New Control submenu is now generated based on the property information present for each object type, and the newly added Object > New Widget submenu is generated based on the currently loaded widget extensions. Property Inspector A number of changes have been made to property editors in the property inspector: - The color editors now use a color swatch widget to display the chosen color - Numeric editors have a slider if the property has an associated min/max, and an increment/decrement twiddle if it has a step value. - The navbar widget now uses a version of itself as an editor for its properties (com.livecode.pi.navbar) - A graphic effects property editor has been added (com.livecode.pi.graphiceffect) - A gradient property editor has been added (com.livecode.pi.gradientramp) - A script property editor has been added, which contains a button to edit the selected script (com.livecode.pi.script) - A time zone property editor has been added, which contains a drop-down list of time zones (com.livecode.pi.timezone) Standalone extensions A field has been added to the Copy Files tab of the standalone settings which is populated with the list of currently installed extensions. All selected extensions from this list are included in standalones and loaded when the standalone is launched. 'Use' dependencies are automatically calculated and included along with the top-level widget. 74 bug fixes. The release can be downloaded at http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ Further information on the changes in this release can be found in the release notes, http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/8_0_0/LiveCodeNotes-8_0_0_dp_3.pdf, and in the following blog post: https://livecode.com/the-top-7-changes-in-livecode-8-dp-3/ Please report any bugs encountered on our Bugzilla at http://quality.livecode.com/ From fraser.gordon at livecode.com Wed Aug 26 11:01:35 2015 From: fraser.gordon at livecode.com (Fraser Gordon) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2015 16:01:35 +0100 Subject: v8 DP3 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 26 Aug 2015, at 15:57, Paul Richards wrote: > Downloads for this version have gone live.. > > I'm sure LC will follow up with an official announcement and changelog shortly > > Paul :) Apparently, I don?t type the release email quickly enough ;) Fraser From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Aug 26 11:23:33 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2015 18:23:33 +0300 Subject: v8 DP3 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55DDD9F5.4040803@gmail.com> On 08/26/2015 06:01 PM, Fraser Gordon wrote: > On 26 Aug 2015, at 15:57, Paul Richards wrote: > >> Downloads for this version have gone live.. >> >> I'm sure LC will follow up with an official announcement and changelog shortly >> >> Paul :) > Apparently, I don?t type the release email quickly enough ;) > > Fraser > > > Time for some finger yoga; obviously your fingers are seizing up from all that coding! Really excited, now I have a functioning 64-bit system, to dig into this 'puppy'. Richmond. From warren at warrensweb.us Wed Aug 26 12:20:11 2015 From: warren at warrensweb.us (Warren Samples) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2015 11:20:11 -0500 Subject: v8 DP3 In-Reply-To: <55DDD9F5.4040803@gmail.com> References: <55DDD9F5.4040803@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55DDE73B.1040803@warrensweb.us> On 08/26/2015 10:23 AM, Richmond wrote: > Really excited, now I have a functioning 64-bit system, to dig into this > 'puppy'. > > Richmond. Richmond, Please let me know if you can build a working standalone on your system. I can't get a standalone built in any version of LC8 to open and run on my system running openSUSE and KDE. Trying to run one from the command line doesn't return any messages. Warren From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Aug 26 12:49:11 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2015 19:49:11 +0300 Subject: v8 DP3 In-Reply-To: <55DDE73B.1040803@warrensweb.us> References: <55DDD9F5.4040803@gmail.com> <55DDE73B.1040803@warrensweb.us> Message-ID: <55DDEE07.8070301@gmail.com> On 08/26/2015 07:20 PM, Warren Samples wrote: > On 08/26/2015 10:23 AM, Richmond wrote: >> Really excited, now I have a functioning 64-bit system, to dig into this >> 'puppy'. >> >> Richmond. > > > Richmond, > > Please let me know if you can build a working standalone on your > system. I can't get a standalone built in any version of LC8 to open > and run on my system running openSUSE and KDE. Trying to run one from > the command line doesn't return any messages. > > Warren > I just knocked together a standard stack with one button containing the script: on mouseUp put "HELLO" end mouseUp before I tried building a standalone, that script did NOT work . . . I built a 64-bit Linux standalone, and it *opened* (the script did not run, but then it didn't in the IDE either). I then knocked together a standard stack with one button containing the script: on mouseUp move me to 50,50 end mouseUp *worked* in the IDE, and worked as a standalone! Xubuntu 64-bit, 15.04 Best, Richmond. P.S. Probably a problem caused by Vladimir *Put*in! From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Aug 26 12:54:55 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2015 19:54:55 +0300 Subject: v8 DP3 In-Reply-To: <55DDEE07.8070301@gmail.com> References: <55DDD9F5.4040803@gmail.com> <55DDE73B.1040803@warrensweb.us> <55DDEE07.8070301@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55DDEF5F.9090106@gmail.com> On 08/26/2015 07:49 PM, Richmond wrote: > On 08/26/2015 07:20 PM, Warren Samples wrote: >> On 08/26/2015 10:23 AM, Richmond wrote: >>> Really excited, now I have a functioning 64-bit system, to dig into >>> this >>> 'puppy'. >>> >>> Richmond. >> >> >> Richmond, >> >> Please let me know if you can build a working standalone on your >> system. I can't get a standalone built in any version of LC8 to open >> and run on my system running openSUSE and KDE. Trying to run one from >> the command line doesn't return any messages. >> >> Warren >> > > I just knocked together a standard stack with one button containing > the script: > > on mouseUp > put "HELLO" > end mouseUp > > before I tried building a standalone, that script did NOT work . . . > > I built a 64-bit Linux standalone, and it *opened* (the script did not > run, but then it didn't in the IDE either). > > I then knocked together a standard stack with one button containing > the script: > > on mouseUp > move me to 50,50 > end mouseUp > > *worked* in the IDE, and worked as a standalone! > > Xubuntu 64-bit, 15.04 > > Best, Richmond. > > P.S. Probably a problem caused by Vladimir *Put*in! Here: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/9k9r6zqqs01sxo1/AAAFIpKPxoxns3kRplMOsaJda?dl=0 File: Test_26_Aug_15.zip Richmond. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Aug 26 13:02:25 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2015 20:02:25 +0300 Subject: v8 DP3 In-Reply-To: <55DDD9F5.4040803@gmail.com> References: <55DDD9F5.4040803@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55DDF121.90801@gmail.com> I'm playing with the 64-bit version of LC 8.0.0 dp3 [ultimate joke: 3 days after I change from 32-bit Linux to 64-bit, RunRev release a dp of version 8.0.0 for 32-bit Linux] 1. No Widget Builder visible yet in Development > Plugins > Widget Builder Richmond. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Aug 26 13:05:19 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2015 20:05:19 +0300 Subject: v8 DP3 In-Reply-To: <55DDF121.90801@gmail.com> References: <55DDD9F5.4040803@gmail.com> <55DDF121.90801@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55DDF1CF.5090207@gmail.com> On 08/26/2015 08:02 PM, Richmond wrote: > I'm playing with the 64-bit version of LC 8.0.0 dp3 > > [ultimate joke: 3 days after I change from 32-bit Linux to 64-bit, > RunRev release a dp of version 8.0.0 for 32-bit Linux] > > 1. No Widget Builder visible yet in > > Development > Plugins > Widget Builder > > Richmond. Err . . . but then I found an 'Extensions Builder' under 'Tools' . . . . . . come on . . . make your minds up! Are the things 'widgets' or 'extensions'? Because at the moment everything is very confusing and there is a serious mismatch between the documentation and the IDE. Richmond. From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Aug 26 13:09:43 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2015 10:09:43 -0700 Subject: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55DDF2D7.5030900@fourthworld.com> Kay C Lan wrote: > On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 5:42 AM, RunRevPlanet wrote: > >> >> For all three I use Geany. >> >> >> > It's not clear to me what integration Geany and Webstorm have built in, but > let's dream and say LiveCode allowed you to use Geany as it's Script > Editior. This would be a bad thing because? Choice is rarely a bad thing. Not sure why this wasn't adopted in the LiveCode IDE; MetaCard had a menu item for using external editors as far back as I can recall. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Aug 26 13:15:36 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2015 10:15:36 -0700 Subject: Script editor handler filter [was: Re: Script Editor future] In-Reply-To: <55DD998B.2030902@gmail.com> References: <55DD998B.2030902@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55DDF438.2090002@fourthworld.com> Richmond wrote: > On 08/26/2015 01:46 PM, Richmond wrote: >> >> >> On 08/26/2015 01:06 PM, Peter TB Brett wrote: >> >> >>> >>> [1] For those who enjoy spoilers: >>> https://github.com/runrev/livecode-ide/blob/develop/Documentation/guides/HTML5%20Deployment.md >>> >> >> >> How do you read .md files? >> >> Richmond. > > > https://addons.mozilla.org/en-us/firefox/addon/markdown-viewer/reviews/ Even simpler to just click the link as provided. Github does its own on-the-fly translation of .md into .html so it renders properly in any browser, no add-ons required. If you need to view/edit the raw markdown for a .md page, use the "Raw" button near the upper-right of the display area. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From dan at clearvisiontech.com Wed Aug 26 13:16:12 2015 From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2015 10:16:12 -0700 Subject: Centered Text In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <989452FC-F256-426A-BE0F-A9A77743CA96@clearvisiontech.com> Is this a bug? Make a field and set the size of it to 20x20 and set the textAlign to centered. Put the text "ABC" in it. The text is not centered. Now, set the dontWrap of the field to true, and the text is displayed as it should. Correct behavior or bug? LC 7.0.1 -Dan From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Aug 26 13:18:06 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2015 20:18:06 +0300 Subject: Script editor handler filter [was: Re: Script Editor future] In-Reply-To: <55DDF438.2090002@fourthworld.com> References: <55DD998B.2030902@gmail.com> <55DDF438.2090002@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <55DDF4CE.4050606@gmail.com> On 08/26/2015 08:15 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Richmond wrote: >> On 08/26/2015 01:46 PM, Richmond wrote: >>> >>> >>> On 08/26/2015 01:06 PM, Peter TB Brett wrote: >>> >>> >>>> >>>> [1] For those who enjoy spoilers: >>>> https://github.com/runrev/livecode-ide/blob/develop/Documentation/guides/HTML5%20Deployment.md >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> How do you read .md files? >>> >>> Richmond. >> >> >> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-us/firefox/addon/markdown-viewer/reviews/ > > Even simpler to just click the link as provided. Github does its own > on-the-fly translation of .md into .html so it renders properly in any > browser, no add-ons required. > > If you need to view/edit the raw markdown for a .md page, use the > "Raw" button near the upper-right of the display area. > True . . But I wanted to download .md files and fiddle around with them . . . Richmond. From revdev at pdslabs.net Wed Aug 26 15:04:54 2015 From: revdev at pdslabs.net (Phil Davis) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2015 12:04:54 -0700 Subject: screen readers Message-ID: <55DE0DD6.4050305@pdslabs.net> Has anyone been able to make desktop stacks work with screen readers? I'm experimenting with the Mac's VoiceOver utility (included with OS X), and VO doesn't know how to interact with a stack - it identifies the window as "unknown" and doesn't allow you to interact with its elements/objects. Thanks for any tips or insights you can share any tips from your experience. -- Phil Davis From revdev at pdslabs.net Wed Aug 26 15:12:09 2015 From: revdev at pdslabs.net (Phil Davis) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2015 12:12:09 -0700 Subject: screen readers In-Reply-To: <55DE0DD6.4050305@pdslabs.net> References: <55DE0DD6.4050305@pdslabs.net> Message-ID: <55DE0F89.8060207@pdslabs.net> I see there are some related comments in the Forums. Looks like I'm not alone. Phil On 8/26/15 12:04 PM, Phil Davis wrote: > Has anyone been able to make desktop stacks work with screen readers? > I'm experimenting with the Mac's VoiceOver utility (included with OS > X), and VO doesn't know how to interact with a stack - it identifies > the window as "unknown" and doesn't allow you to interact with its > elements/objects. > > Thanks for any tips or insights you can share any tips from your > experience. > -- Phil Davis From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Wed Aug 26 15:38:51 2015 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2015 21:38:51 +0200 Subject: screen readers In-Reply-To: <55DE0DD6.4050305@pdslabs.net> References: <55DE0DD6.4050305@pdslabs.net> Message-ID: <55DE15CB.60707@economy-x-talk.com> Hi Phil, As far as I know, LiveCode is currently incompatible with screen readers. This issue has been reported at http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=7286 but I don't get the impression that RunRev has a serious interest in fixing this. One of the comments says widgets will solve it, but that would only apply to widgets and not to the "script" environment, as opposed to the widget builder environment, including any of the current controls, windows, stacks and cards, since those aren't widgets. A programmer who works for me has used a screen reader with Xojo an told me it works as expected. All controls are "visible" to him and his screen reader doesn't crash all the time. -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer KvK: 50277553 Installer Maker for LiveCode: http://qery.us/468 Buy my new book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner" http://qery.us/3fi LiveCode on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/runrev/ On 8/26/2015 21:04, Phil Davis wrote: > Has anyone been able to make desktop stacks work with screen readers? > I'm experimenting with the Mac's VoiceOver utility (included with OS X), > and VO doesn't know how to interact with a stack - it identifies the > window as "unknown" and doesn't allow you to interact with its > elements/objects. > > Thanks for any tips or insights you can share any tips from your > experience. > From warren at warrensweb.us Wed Aug 26 15:42:17 2015 From: warren at warrensweb.us (Warren Samples) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2015 14:42:17 -0500 Subject: v8 DP3 In-Reply-To: <55DDEF5F.9090106@gmail.com> References: <55DDD9F5.4040803@gmail.com> <55DDE73B.1040803@warrensweb.us> <55DDEE07.8070301@gmail.com> <55DDEF5F.9090106@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55DE1699.6030103@warrensweb.us> On 08/26/2015 11:54 AM, Richmond wrote: >> >> I just knocked together a standard stack with one button containing >> the script: >> >> on mouseUp >> put "HELLO" >> end mouseUp >> >> before I tried building a standalone, that script did NOT work . . . >> >> I built a 64-bit Linux standalone, and it *opened* (the script did not >> run, but then it didn't in the IDE either). >> >> I then knocked together a standard stack with one button containing >> the script: >> >> on mouseUp >> move me to 50,50 >> end mouseUp >> >> *worked* in the IDE, and worked as a standalone! >> >> Xubuntu 64-bit, 15.04 >> >> Best, Richmond. >> >> P.S. Probably a problem caused by Vladimir *Put*in! > > > Here: > https://www.dropbox.com/sh/9k9r6zqqs01sxo1/AAAFIpKPxoxns3kRplMOsaJda?dl=0 > > File: Test_26_Aug_15.zip > > Richmond. > _______________________________________________ > Thank you, Richmond. The Mover standalone ran here and the stack successfully compiled and ran as a standalone on my machine. So, I went back and see that under Linux standalone settings, 64bit is deselected by default and I hadn't even bothered checking (red-face goes here). All I did was deselect Windows and OS X... I would like to politely suggest if Linux is by default going to build for Windows and OS X, it could also build by default for both Linux architectures. It seems the answer dialog may be a problem in standalone building. Opening a standalone that uses an answer dialog returns this error, "Error 91,15,1 (linebreak without a comma here in the error message) 532,52,1 while loading stack: pLibraryName". Clicking "OK" does nothing. The dialog has to be dismissed by clicking the close button in the title bar. The dialog reappears. Same issue with dismissing/closing it. The app window then opens. A button that goes "beep" works as expected. The button that displays the answer dialog works and displays the proper text but the dialog again cannot by dismissed by clicking "OK". That's what I have here. Does this happen for you , or anyone else? Warren From revdev at pdslabs.net Wed Aug 26 15:56:02 2015 From: revdev at pdslabs.net (Phil Davis) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2015 12:56:02 -0700 Subject: screen readers In-Reply-To: <55DE15CB.60707@economy-x-talk.com> References: <55DE0DD6.4050305@pdslabs.net> <55DE15CB.60707@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: <55DE19D2.1050100@pdslabs.net> Thank you Mark. I think your assessment of this matter is probably accurate. Phil On 8/26/15 12:38 PM, Mark Schonewille wrote: > Hi Phil, > > As far as I know, LiveCode is currently incompatible with screen > readers. This issue has been reported at > http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=7286 but I don't get the > impression that RunRev has a serious interest in fixing this. One of > the comments says widgets will solve it, but that would only apply to > widgets and not to the "script" environment, as opposed to the widget > builder environment, including any of the current controls, windows, > stacks and cards, since those aren't widgets. > > A programmer who works for me has used a screen reader with Xojo an > told me it works as expected. All controls are "visible" to him and > his screen reader doesn't crash all the time. > > -- > Best regards, > > Mark Schonewille > > Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering > Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com > Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer > KvK: 50277553 > > Installer Maker for LiveCode: > http://qery.us/468 > > Buy my new book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner" > http://qery.us/3fi > > LiveCode on Facebook: > https://www.facebook.com/groups/runrev/ > > On 8/26/2015 21:04, Phil Davis wrote: >> Has anyone been able to make desktop stacks work with screen readers? >> I'm experimenting with the Mac's VoiceOver utility (included with OS X), >> and VO doesn't know how to interact with a stack - it identifies the >> window as "unknown" and doesn't allow you to interact with its >> elements/objects. >> >> Thanks for any tips or insights you can share any tips from your >> experience. >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Phil Davis From iowahengst at mac.com Wed Aug 26 16:07:58 2015 From: iowahengst at mac.com (Randy Hengst) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2015 15:07:58 -0500 Subject: Centered Text In-Reply-To: <989452FC-F256-426A-BE0F-A9A77743CA96@clearvisiontech.com> References: <989452FC-F256-426A-BE0F-A9A77743CA96@clearvisiontech.com> Message-ID: <197A8A52-4F32-47A9-A68A-5299A15137C9@mac.com> I see the same result you describe in LC 7.0.4 on Mac OSX 10.10.2 But, it works correctly with LC 6.7.5 on the same Mac ? in other words, it centers the text without the dontWrap property on. be well, randy Randy Hengst www.classroomFocusedSoftware.com > On Aug 26, 2015, at 12:16 PM, Dan Friedman > wrote: > > Is this a bug? Make a field and set the size of it to 20x20 and set the textAlign to centered. Put the text "ABC" in it. The text is not centered. Now, set the dontWrap of the field to true, and the text is displayed as it should. > > Correct behavior or bug? > > LC 7.0.1 > > -Dan > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dsimpson at dotcomsolutionsinc.net Wed Aug 26 16:09:04 2015 From: dsimpson at dotcomsolutionsinc.net (David Simpson) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2015 13:09:04 -0700 Subject: screen readers In-Reply-To: <55DE0F89.8060207@pdslabs.net> References: <55DE0DD6.4050305@pdslabs.net> <55DE0F89.8060207@pdslabs.net> Message-ID: Phil, Indeed, LiveCode does not currently support Accessibility. I have used a variety of automation software like AppleScript and WinAutomation - and only the outline of the window and the window controls are visible. In fact, I lost a sale last week because my software could not be used with JAWS screenreader software. This is a 2nd project for which I am interested in contributing to financially using my Business Edition credits. I spoke with LiveCode engineering about this very issue. If you look at the new pricing page, you will see info about a Business Feature Exchange (tooltip for Add a Feature on the pricing page). This Business Feature Exchange does not yet formally exist. But when it does, Business Edition customers will be able to pool their resources to get features like this added. Accessibility could potentially be added as a 2 phase project. Phase #1 - Due to the way the Tooltip feature is implemented, it might lend itself to modification allowing some level of Accessibility for existing objects. All of my buttons already have useful tooltips, and this would be a nice stopgap measure. This idea would need investigated further by engineering to determine its practicality and cost/timeframe. I hope to proceed further along with this project after Project #1 has been completed. Phase #2 - New objects built as widgets could have Accessibility added in directly. If you or anyone else is interested in participating in the Business Feature Exchange, feel free to open an online chat session with Iain Morrison by clicking on the Lets Chat button on the pricing page (during business hours). By giving LiveCode Ltd. a heads up now, they might populate the Business Feature Exchange with a few starter projects as part of their rollout process. David Simpson www.fmpromigrator.com > On Aug 26, 2015, at 12:12 PM, Phil Davis wrote: > > I see there are some related comments in the Forums. Looks like I'm not alone. > Phil > > On 8/26/15 12:04 PM, Phil Davis wrote: >> Has anyone been able to make desktop stacks work with screen readers? I'm experimenting with the Mac's VoiceOver utility (included with OS X), and VO doesn't know how to interact with a stack - it identifies the window as "unknown" and doesn't allow you to interact with its elements/objects. >> >> Thanks for any tips or insights you can share any tips from your experience. >> > > -- > Phil Davis > > > _______________________________________________ > livecode-dev mailing list > livecode-dev at lists.runrev.com > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/livecode-dev From lists at mangomultimedia.com Wed Aug 26 16:14:04 2015 From: lists at mangomultimedia.com (Trevor DeVore) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2015 16:14:04 -0400 Subject: screen readers In-Reply-To: <55DE0F89.8060207@pdslabs.net> References: <55DE0DD6.4050305@pdslabs.net> <55DE0F89.8060207@pdslabs.net> Message-ID: On Wednesday, August 26, 2015, Phil Davis wrote: > I see there are some related comments in the Forums. Looks like I'm not > alone. > Phil > > On 8/26/15 12:04 PM, Phil Davis wrote: > >> Has anyone been able to make desktop stacks work with screen readers? I'm >> experimenting with the Mac's VoiceOver utility (included with OS X), and VO >> doesn't know how to interact with a stack - it identifies the window as >> "unknown" and doesn't allow you to interact with its elements/objects. >> >> Thanks for any tips or insights you can share any tips from your >> experience. >> > I don't know if you saw this thread which discusses a possible solution: http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=20673 I haven't ever set aside time to create a list of properties for the accessibilityInfo array which Mark Waddingham mentions. Given the workload that the team has I'm guessing this would need to be a community project or someone would have to use some Business credits to get it done anytime soon. For me it is one of those things that I would like to have but isn't absolutely necessary. That means it sits in that little bin In my brain marked "Maybe someday...". -- Trevor DeVore From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Aug 26 16:34:23 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2015 23:34:23 +0300 Subject: v8 DP3 In-Reply-To: <55DE1699.6030103@warrensweb.us> References: <55DDD9F5.4040803@gmail.com> <55DDE73B.1040803@warrensweb.us> <55DDEE07.8070301@gmail.com> <55DDEF5F.9090106@gmail.com> <55DE1699.6030103@warrensweb.us> Message-ID: <55DE22CF.7010603@gmail.com> On 08/26/2015 10:42 PM, Warren Samples wrote: > On 08/26/2015 11:54 AM, Richmond wrote: >>> >>> I just knocked together a standard stack with one button containing >>> the script: >>> >>> on mouseUp >>> put "HELLO" >>> end mouseUp >>> >>> before I tried building a standalone, that script did NOT work . . . >>> >>> I built a 64-bit Linux standalone, and it *opened* (the script did not >>> run, but then it didn't in the IDE either). >>> >>> I then knocked together a standard stack with one button containing >>> the script: >>> >>> on mouseUp >>> move me to 50,50 >>> end mouseUp >>> >>> *worked* in the IDE, and worked as a standalone! >>> >>> Xubuntu 64-bit, 15.04 >>> >>> Best, Richmond. >>> >>> P.S. Probably a problem caused by Vladimir *Put*in! >> >> >> Here: >> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/9k9r6zqqs01sxo1/AAAFIpKPxoxns3kRplMOsaJda?dl=0 >> >> >> File: Test_26_Aug_15.zip >> >> Richmond. >> _______________________________________________ >> > > > Thank you, Richmond. The Mover standalone ran here and the stack > successfully compiled and ran as a standalone on my machine. So, I > went back and see that under Linux standalone settings, 64bit is > deselected by default and I hadn't even bothered checking (red-face > goes here). All I did was deselect Windows and OS X... I would like to > politely suggest if Linux is by default going to build for Windows and > OS X, it could also build by default for both Linux architectures. +1 especially as a very large number of desktops that do use Linux are using 64-bit versions. > > It seems the answer dialog may be a problem in standalone building. > Opening a standalone that uses an answer dialog returns this error, > "Error 91,15,1 (linebreak without a comma here in the error message) > 532,52,1 while loading stack: pLibraryName". Clicking "OK" does > nothing. The dialog has to be dismissed by clicking the close button > in the title bar. The dialog reappears. Same issue with > dismissing/closing it. The app window then opens. A button that goes > "beep" works as expected. The button that displays the answer dialog > works and displays the proper text but the dialog again cannot by > dismissed by clicking "OK". > > That's what I have here. Does this happen for you , or anyone else? > > Warren > Richmond. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Wed Aug 26 17:28:44 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 00:28:44 +0300 Subject: v8 DP3 In-Reply-To: <55DDE73B.1040803@warrensweb.us> References: <55DDD9F5.4040803@gmail.com> <55DDE73B.1040803@warrensweb.us> Message-ID: <55DE2F8C.4080405@gmail.com> So; had a "bash" with LiveCode 8.0.0 dp3 on Windows 7 (thanks to the good offices of VMware Player 7 on Xubuntu 64-bit 15.04*) and found that there is no obvious differences to the 64-bit Linux version. So (bad habit that, keeping writing 'so'), back to Linux and trying to learn something about the widget/extension (see abusive remarks on nomenclature in earlier post): [parenthetically; slightly p*ssed off that I cannot get at IDE stacks via the props palette as I want to turn the menuBar and the Tools black.] 1. "Start by creating a plain text file and save it *do* disk with the extension "lcb" " [Grammatical error hilited] Well, that's a mug's game to start with; these should be possible to make from within the Extension Builder. 2. Well, there we are; created a document called "cheese.lcb" in my '8 ball' directory where I am messing around right now. Used 'LeafPad' - bog standard text editor that comes with Xubuntu - nothing special; saved in UTF - 8 (LF) format; let's see if LiveCode 'likes' that. 2.1. I wonder why the Extension Builder keeps defaulting to the /extensions/ directory and won't 'fixate' on my directory? 3. OK: apparently I have opened the text document in the Builder . . . 4. "Start by declaring the type of extension, either 'widget" or "library" followed by your identifier" . . . err . . . OK . . . 4.1 Where? Neither of the 2 fields in the Builder will let me select them so I can type anything: neither the 'Resources' fld, nor the 'User Guide' (which is obviously not the right place. 4.2 I tried clicking on the 'Script' button ["Opens the lcb script in an external default editor." - AND how does one set that?] nothing happened. 5. Grind to a halt because the Documentation seems insufficient . . . 6. Here's another funny one: "See "Select A Developer ID" below" . . . scrolling all the way through the Guide this section is missing. 7. Being a clever sort of chap (?) I thought I'd just open up my text file using my *external text editor* (at which point one starts to wonder what the point of the Builder is . . . and copy and adapt the example given in the Docs: /widget community.livecode.richmond.dafttry// // //use com.livecode.canvas// //use com.livecode.widget// //use com.livecode.engine// // //metadata title is "Daft Try"// //metadata author is "Richmond"// //metadata version is "1.0.0"// // //end widget/ As the Documentation does *NOT* let one copy-paste I had to type all that out . . .and that is silly. At this point I got fed up and decided to go to bed. I might continue tomorrow . . . *2 MAIN CRITICISMS*: 1. Use of text editor; not good. 2. Inability to copy-paste: Shakespeare must be turning in his grave! Richmond. * VMware Player 7 is FREE, but it is only available Linux-wise for 64-bit distros, the most recent version for 32-bit distros being version 6; to which the only serious response can be "mene mene tekel upharsin" and get a 64-bit distro running as soon as possible. To install Windows 7 on VMware is no more difficult than installing it on a physical computer. From peter.brett at livecode.com Wed Aug 26 18:08:09 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 00:08:09 +0200 Subject: v8 DP3 In-Reply-To: <55DE2F8C.4080405@gmail.com> References: <55DDD9F5.4040803@gmail.com> <55DDE73B.1040803@warrensweb.us> <55DE2F8C.4080405@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 2015-08-26 23:28, Richmond wrote: > > [wall of text] > To answer the questions that I was able to identify: * The "Extension Builder" tool is used for compiling and packaging extensions. * Extensions may be either "libraries" (which add handlers to the LiveCode message path), "widgets" (which add controls to the LiveCode toolbox) or "modules" (which are used by other extensions). * Using an external text editor is the recommended and currently only way to edit LiveCode Builder code. I recommend using the Atom editor , with my "language-livecode" Atom extension to add syntax highlighting and autocompletion for LiveCode Builder source files . * For a detailed, step-by-step tutorial for creating a widget, see this blog post: . Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Engine Development Team LiveCode on reddit! From feed at smpcsupport.com Wed Aug 26 18:21:24 2015 From: feed at smpcsupport.com (RunRevPlanet) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 08:21:24 +1000 Subject: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card) Message-ID: <1440627684.55de3be450493@www.server101.com> Thierry Douez said: > If you are interested to this project, > do you have some knowledge or links about > adding a language, compilation tools,.. > to geany? No I don't know of any links and haven't done that sort of work before, so I am afraid I can't be much help. I will have a look around though, and see what I can find, as I am curious about what is involved. -- Scott McDonald "Components, Controls, Tools and Resources for LiveCode" www.runrevplanet.com From david at viral.academy Wed Aug 26 18:29:42 2015 From: david at viral.academy (David Bovill) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2015 23:29:42 +0100 Subject: v8 DP3 In-Reply-To: References: <55DDD9F5.4040803@gmail.com> <55DDE73B.1040803@warrensweb.us> <55DE2F8C.4080405@gmail.com> Message-ID: Is there one for library creation? Not the ancient one from Kevin? On Wednesday, August 26, 2015, Peter TB Brett wrote: > On 2015-08-26 23:28, Richmond wrote: > >> >> [wall of text] >> >> > To answer the questions that I was able to identify: > > * The "Extension Builder" tool is used for compiling and packaging > extensions. > > * Extensions may be either "libraries" (which add handlers to the LiveCode > message path), "widgets" (which add controls to the LiveCode toolbox) or > "modules" (which are used by other extensions). > > * Using an external text editor is the recommended and currently only way > to edit LiveCode Builder code. I recommend using the Atom editor < > https://atom.io/>, with my "language-livecode" Atom extension to add > syntax highlighting and autocompletion for LiveCode Builder source files < > https://atom.io/packages/language-livecode>. > > * For a detailed, step-by-step tutorial for creating a widget, see this > blog post: . > > Peter > > -- > Dr Peter Brett > LiveCode Engine Development Team > > LiveCode on reddit! > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From revdev at pdslabs.net Wed Aug 26 18:36:33 2015 From: revdev at pdslabs.net (Phil Davis) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2015 15:36:33 -0700 Subject: screen readers In-Reply-To: References: <55DE0DD6.4050305@pdslabs.net> <55DE0F89.8060207@pdslabs.net> Message-ID: <55DE3F71.3010702@pdslabs.net> Hi Trevor, I did indeed miss that thread. Thanks for the heads-up! Phil On 8/26/15 1:14 PM, Trevor DeVore wrote: > On Wednesday, August 26, 2015, Phil Davis wrote: > >> I see there are some related comments in the Forums. Looks like I'm not >> alone. >> Phil >> >> On 8/26/15 12:04 PM, Phil Davis wrote: >> >>> Has anyone been able to make desktop stacks work with screen readers? I'm >>> experimenting with the Mac's VoiceOver utility (included with OS X), and VO >>> doesn't know how to interact with a stack - it identifies the window as >>> "unknown" and doesn't allow you to interact with its elements/objects. >>> >>> Thanks for any tips or insights you can share any tips from your >>> experience. >>> > I don't know if you saw this thread which discusses a possible solution: > > http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=20673 > > I haven't ever set aside time to create a list of properties for the > accessibilityInfo array which Mark Waddingham mentions. Given the workload > that the team has I'm guessing this would need to be a community project or > someone would have to use some Business credits to get it done anytime > soon. > > For me it is one of those things that I would like to have but isn't > absolutely necessary. That means it sits in that little bin In my > brain marked "Maybe someday...". > -- Phil Davis From peter.brett at livecode.com Wed Aug 26 18:39:42 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 00:39:42 +0200 Subject: v8 DP3 In-Reply-To: References: <55DDD9F5.4040803@gmail.com> <55DDE73B.1040803@warrensweb.us> <55DE2F8C.4080405@gmail.com> Message-ID: <12da02cf8567d3e3d4707a1982bbfe64@livecode.com> On 2015-08-27 00:29, David Bovill wrote: > > On Wednesday, August 26, 2015, Peter TB Brett > > wrote: > >> * For a detailed, step-by-step tutorial for creating a widget, see >> this >> blog post: . > Is there one for library creation? Not the ancient one from Kevin? I don't think one's been written yet. Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Engine Development Team LiveCode on reddit! From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Aug 26 18:44:28 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2015 15:44:28 -0700 Subject: v8 DP3 In-Reply-To: <12da02cf8567d3e3d4707a1982bbfe64@livecode.com> References: <12da02cf8567d3e3d4707a1982bbfe64@livecode.com> Message-ID: <55DE414C.3000201@fourthworld.com> Peter TB Brett wrote: > On 2015-08-27 00:29, David Bovill wrote: > >> On Wednesday, August 26, 2015, Peter TB Brett wrote: >>> * For a detailed, step-by-step tutorial for creating a widget, see >>> this blog post: . >> >> Is there one for library creation? Not the ancient one from Kevin? > > I don't think one's been written yet. How is a library in v8 different from a library in v1 through 7? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From peter.brett at livecode.com Wed Aug 26 18:55:02 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 00:55:02 +0200 Subject: v8 DP3 In-Reply-To: <55DE414C.3000201@fourthworld.com> References: <12da02cf8567d3e3d4707a1982bbfe64@livecode.com> <55DE414C.3000201@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <69cf853c758563e35fb607b952bf1bad@livecode.com> On 2015-08-27 00:44, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Peter TB Brett wrote: > >> On 2015-08-27 00:29, David Bovill wrote: >> >>> On Wednesday, August 26, 2015, Peter TB Brett wrote: >>>> * For a detailed, step-by-step tutorial for creating a widget, see >>>> this blog post: . >>> >>> Is there one for library creation? Not the ancient one from Kevin? >> >> I don't think one's been written yet. > > How is a library in v8 different from a library in v1 through 7? He's talking about libraries written as extensions using LiveCode Builder. Since LiveCode < 8 doesn't have LiveCode Builder, could you please clarify your question? Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Engine Development Team LiveCode on reddit! From ambassador at fourthworld.com Wed Aug 26 19:02:11 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2015 16:02:11 -0700 Subject: v8 DP3 In-Reply-To: <69cf853c758563e35fb607b952bf1bad@livecode.com> References: <69cf853c758563e35fb607b952bf1bad@livecode.com> Message-ID: <55DE4573.9070704@fourthworld.com> Peter TB Brett wrote: > On 2015-08-27 00:44, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> Peter TB Brett wrote: >> >>> On 2015-08-27 00:29, David Bovill wrote: >>> >>>> On Wednesday, August 26, 2015, Peter TB Brett wrote: >>>>> * For a detailed, step-by-step tutorial for creating a widget, see >>>>> this blog post: . >>>> >>>> Is there one for library creation? Not the ancient one from Kevin? >>> >>> I don't think one's been written yet. >> >> How is a library in v8 different from a library in v1 through 7? > > He's talking about libraries written as extensions using LiveCode > Builder. Since LiveCode < 8 doesn't have LiveCode Builder, could you > please clarify your question? No need; apparently I just missed "Builder" in his question. Thanks. When is the target date for IDE support of Builder? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From peter.brett at livecode.com Wed Aug 26 19:11:44 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 01:11:44 +0200 Subject: v8 DP3 In-Reply-To: <55DE4573.9070704@fourthworld.com> References: <69cf853c758563e35fb607b952bf1bad@livecode.com> <55DE4573.9070704@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On 2015-08-27 01:02, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Peter TB Brett wrote: > >> He's talking about libraries written as extensions using LiveCode >> Builder. Since LiveCode < 8 doesn't have LiveCode Builder, could you >> please clarify your question? > > No need; apparently I just missed "Builder" in his question. Thanks. > > When is the target date for IDE support of Builder? I don't think there are any specific plans for that yet, or at least, none that I'm aware of. Obviously in-IDE editing of .lcb files will be added at some point in the future, but I can't say when. Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Engine Development Team LiveCode on reddit! From feed at smpcsupport.com Wed Aug 26 21:03:44 2015 From: feed at smpcsupport.com (RunRevPlanet) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 11:03:44 +1000 Subject: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card) Message-ID: <1440637424.55de61f021eaf@www.server101.com> Kay C Lan said: > let's dream and say LiveCode allowed > you to use Geany as it's Script > Editior. This would be a bad thing > because? None of my comments are from the perspective that enabling LiveCode to use an external editor is a bad thing. More that for a cross platform IDE, written in it's supported language, to have an inadequate text editor (in the context of not having an editor plugin feature as standard) is a very bad look and turns programmers away. The impression that I prefer the existing Script Editor to be improved, instead of integrating another editor, is simply because I suspect fixing the current editor will be *quicker* than integrating an external editor. I have no hard facts on how long either process would take to do, it is only a suspicion. -- Scott McDonald "Components, Controls, Tools and Resources for LiveCode" www.runrevplanet.com From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Wed Aug 26 22:37:33 2015 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2015 22:37:33 -0400 Subject: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card) In-Reply-To: <1440637424.55de61f021eaf@www.server101.com> References: <1440637424.55de61f021eaf@www.server101.com> Message-ID: So has anyone looked at dp3 to see if the script editor is strapped, yet, or are we still a ways off from that? Once it's more workable (because you oughta try working on that code, now. Ugh), hopefully we can all make it better. On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 9:03 PM, RunRevPlanet wrote: > Kay C Lan said: > > > let's dream and say LiveCode allowed > > you to use Geany as it's Script > > Editior. This would be a bad thing > > because? > > None of my comments are from the perspective that enabling LiveCode to use > an > external editor is a bad thing. > > More that for a cross platform IDE, written in it's supported language, to > have > an inadequate text editor (in the context of not having an editor plugin > feature > as standard) is a very bad look and turns programmers away. > > The impression that I prefer the existing Script Editor to be improved, > instead > of integrating another editor, is simply because I suspect fixing the > current > editor will be *quicker* than integrating an external editor. > > I have no hard facts on how long either process would take to do, it is > only a > suspicion. > -- > Scott McDonald > "Components, Controls, Tools and Resources for LiveCode" > www.runrevplanet.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Thu Aug 27 00:34:15 2015 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 12:34:15 +0800 Subject: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card) In-Reply-To: <1440637424.55de61f021eaf@www.server101.com> References: <1440637424.55de61f021eaf@www.server101.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 9:03 AM, RunRevPlanet wrote: > > None of my comments are from the perspective that enabling LiveCode to use > an > external editor is a bad thing. > > So we agree then. As Richard said, choice is a good thing. > More that for a cross platform IDE, written in it's supported language, to > have > an inadequate text editor is a very bad look Again, we agree. > and turns programmers away. > > Only if they don't have a choice to use something better. And I contend, that for 'serious' developers, those that might work in a team or an environment where certain tools are 'standard', then being able to leverage those tools may be the actual tipping point of even having a look at LC in the first place, and being able to use familiar tools may cause them to stick around longer. > The impression that I prefer the existing Script Editor to be improved, Yes, the current SE needs improvement, but will they ever get to the point that it matches your Geany yard stick, or my yardstick, or some other developers yard stick? > instead > of integrating another editor, is simply because I suspect fixing the > current > editor will be *quicker* than integrating an external editor. > I have no hard facts on how long either process would take to do, it is > only a > suspicion. > > And that is where we differ. How many multi language capable IDEs are out there. Why, because as Richard implied, you can't please everyone so you need to give them choice. Even Xcode, from the company that enshrines in house, walled garden, made by us and only us, allows you to choose the text editor of your choice to manipulate the text files you write. I'll admit, like you, I don't know exactly how long it would take to implement, but as has been pointed out, it appears to have existed in some form or another in previous incarnations and the foundations of which may still lurk beneath. My suspicion is that there are entire communities (Vim), teams (Atom - subset of Github) and companies (Sublime Text) dedicated to the art of text manipulation - it's not easy. There is a very good reason many many other communities, teams and companies take the smart route and build adequate text handling into their products but allow integration with the industry leaders. But to counter my own argument, this really comes down to what the coders at the mothership are doing. If they spend every hour of the working day between the LC IDE and their favourite Text Editor for Engine code manipulation and Github integration and they are happy, then I should be happy. If on the other hand they find the different keyboard shortcuts, page tool layout and feature set a little annoying, less than ideal or productive, then eventually someone will bite the bullet and say, this has to change! From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Thu Aug 27 02:45:29 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 09:45:29 +0300 Subject: v8 DP3 In-Reply-To: References: <55DDD9F5.4040803@gmail.com> <55DDE73B.1040803@warrensweb.us> <55DE2F8C.4080405@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55DEB209.8040403@gmail.com> On 08/27/2015 01:08 AM, Peter TB Brett wrote: > On 2015-08-26 23:28, Richmond wrote: >> >> [wall of text] >> > > To answer the questions that I was able to identify: > > * The "Extension Builder" tool is used for compiling and packaging > extensions. > > * Extensions may be either "libraries" (which add handlers to the > LiveCode message path), "widgets" (which add controls to the LiveCode > toolbox) or "modules" (which are used by other extensions). > > * Using an external text editor is the recommended and currently only > way to edit LiveCode Builder code. I recommend using the Atom editor > , with my "language-livecode" Atom extension to add > syntax highlighting and autocompletion for LiveCode Builder source > files . > > * For a detailed, step-by-step tutorial for creating a widget, see > this blog post: . > > Peter > If you paid a peedie bit more attention to what you term my 'wall of text' [aka 'Richmond plays Everyman'] you would, possibly, have taken tent of a few things that were serious questions: /1. "Start by creating a plain text file and save it //*do*//disk with the extension "lcb" " [Grammatical error hilited]// //// //Well, that's a mug's game to start with; these should be possible to make from within the Extension Builder./ --- /I thought I'd just open up my text file using my //*external text editor*//(at which point one // // starts to wonder what the point of the Builder is)/ Both of those require questions, and at the risk of being a bore, I'll reiterate them: 1. Why should there be recourse to an external text editor???? 2. What is the point of the Builder if one cannot type code into it???? Richmond. From charles at techstrategies.com.au Thu Aug 27 02:59:14 2015 From: charles at techstrategies.com.au (Charles Warwick) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 16:59:14 +1000 Subject: v8 DP3 In-Reply-To: <55DEB209.8040403@gmail.com> References: <55DDD9F5.4040803@gmail.com> <55DDE73B.1040803@warrensweb.us> <55DE2F8C.4080405@gmail.com> <55DEB209.8040403@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1392CC08-70FC-4784-A05C-1A2AF4E1321B@techstrategies.com.au> > > /I thought I'd just open up my text file using my //*external text editor*//(at which point one // > // starts to wonder what the point of the Builder is)/ > > Both of those require questions, and at the risk of being a bore, I'll reiterate them: > > 1. Why should there be recourse to an external text editor???? > > 2. What is the point of the Builder if one cannot type code into it???? > LCB code needs to be ?compiled?, that is the purpose of the builder as per Peter?s comment: "The "Extension Builder" tool is used for compiling and packaging extensions." From smudge.andy at googlemail.com Thu Aug 27 02:54:54 2015 From: smudge.andy at googlemail.com (AndyP) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2015 23:54:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: v8 DP3 In-Reply-To: References: <55DDD9F5.4040803@gmail.com> <55DDE73B.1040803@warrensweb.us> <55DE2F8C.4080405@gmail.com> <12da02cf8567d3e3d4707a1982bbfe64@livecode.com> <55DE414C.3000201@fourthworld.com> <69cf853c758563e35fb607b952bf1bad@livecode.com> <55DE4573.9070704@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <1440658494455-4695621.post@n4.nabble.com> I've created a snippet for the Atom editor to make creating .lcb files a little easier In Atom (you need to have Peters packages installed first) Go File>Open Your Snippets Add the following to the file '.source.iRev, .source.lcb': 'lcbtemplate': 'prefix': 'lcbt' 'body': '-- declaring extension as widget, followed by identifier\n widget community.livecode.username.identifier\n use com.livecode.canvas\n use com.livecode.widget\n use com.livecode.engine\n metadata title is "title"\n metadata author is "author"\n metadata version is "1.0.0"\n end widget' Then save the snippets file Create a new .lcb file This must be saved in order for Atom to be able to associate the .lcb file with Peters packages. In the new .lcb file type lcbt and hit enter or the tab key or pick it from the auto-complete options You will now get this added to your .lcb file -- declaring extension as widget, followed by identifier widget community.livecode.username.identifier use com.livecode.canvas use com.livecode.widget use com.livecode.engine metadata title is "title" metadata author is "author" metadata version is "1.0.0" end widget ----- Andy Piddock My software never has bugs. It just develops random features. Copy the new cloud space, get your free 15GB space now: Get Copy Script editor Themer for LC http://2108.co.uk PointandSee is a FREE simple but full featured under cursor colour picker / finder. http://www.pointandsee.co.uk - made with LiveCode -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/v8-DP3-tp4695584p4695621.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From dan at clearvisiontech.com Thu Aug 27 03:10:46 2015 From: dan at clearvisiontech.com (Dan Friedman) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 00:10:46 -0700 Subject: open printing CRASH In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <76BA672B-9108-45C1-B2BE-6E5F7F7B4C7C@clearvisiontech.com> Hello. I am printing a stack in a windows standalone. I do "open printing with dialog", and it's all fine. If I run it again, it crashes the app. If I run "open printing" (without the "with dialog") on the second try, it doesn't crash and it prints just fine. Only happens on Windows, Mac is fine. Doesn't seem to be a problem in the IDE, only the standalone. Any thoughts as to what could be the problem? Using LC 7.0.1 Thanks in advance, -Dan From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Thu Aug 27 03:12:50 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 10:12:50 +0300 Subject: v8 DP3 In-Reply-To: <1392CC08-70FC-4784-A05C-1A2AF4E1321B@techstrategies.com.au> References: <55DDD9F5.4040803@gmail.com> <55DDE73B.1040803@warrensweb.us> <55DE2F8C.4080405@gmail.com> <55DEB209.8040403@gmail.com> <1392CC08-70FC-4784-A05C-1A2AF4E1321B@techstrategies.com.au> Message-ID: <55DEB872.6080901@gmail.com> On 08/27/2015 09:59 AM, Charles Warwick wrote: >> /I thought I'd just open up my text file using my //*external text editor*//(at which point one // >> // starts to wonder what the point of the Builder is)/ >> >> Both of those require questions, and at the risk of being a bore, I'll reiterate them: >> >> 1. Why should there be recourse to an external text editor???? >> >> 2. What is the point of the Builder if one cannot type code into it???? >> > LCB code needs to be ?compiled?, that is the purpose of the builder as per Peter?s comment: > > "The "Extension Builder" tool is used for compiling and packaging extensions." > Aha. Well then the Documentation is awful as it makes none of these things clear. Over the last 40 years (cripes what a long time) I have yet to encounter any sort of computer programming manual that doesn't assume the reader knows all sorts of things already. People who write these sorts of manuals ought to go and take a short course in reader-response theory, and work on the basis that ALL the people who will read what they write are "steaming idiots" who know nothing about the subject: then, even though the vast majority won't be steaming idiots (well, one hopes not) the stuff will provide all the information that, at present, writers of programming manuals seem to think is given. ---------------- As one writes 'normal' LiveCode scripts into the built-in scriptEditor (although I see a lot of people are fed-up with it - has always served me well), it would seem 'a good thing' for the Extension Builder to have a scriptEditor of its own, rather than having to rely on an external text editor. Richmond. > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From feed at smpcsupport.com Thu Aug 27 03:49:03 2015 From: feed at smpcsupport.com (RunRevPlanet) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 17:49:03 +1000 Subject: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card) Message-ID: <1440661743.55dec0ef7a0a7@www.server101.com> Kay C Lan said: > take the smart route and build adequate > text handling into their products but allow > integration with the industry leaders. One of the promoted strengths of LiveCode is that it is "live coding". In other words I can make a change in my script and immediately see the effect. Now while I understand the virtues of using the external text editor of your choice. With your example of XCode and an external editor, is it possible to set breakpoints and single step through the code in your preferred external editor? When debugging in the live coding environment which is LiveCode I expect to be able single step through *and* edit my code in the one place with more than the current rudimentary facilities. While I give Geany as an example cause I like it, it is known as a very light-weight IDE, so it is not a totally unreasonable starting point for the minimum of what an adequate editor should be capable of. By all means allow external editors, but my point is the current LiveCode IDE Script Editor is *not even adequate* and having external plugin editors doesn't fully work around the usability issues. -- Scott McDonald "Components, Controls, Tools and Resources for LiveCode" www.runrevplanet.com From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Thu Aug 27 04:13:18 2015 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 10:13:18 +0200 Subject: LiveCode meeting Nederland In-Reply-To: <1AF1500E-BF27-47B4-9AF1-26959C41B828@economy-x-talk.com> References: <1AF1500E-BF27-47B4-9AF1-26959C41B828@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: <55DEC69E.202@economy-x-talk.com> Hallo, Komend weekend zal de laatste gelegenheid zijn om de vragenlijst in te vullen. Daarna zal worden besloten wanneer en waar de LiveCode-bijeenkomst plaats zal vinden. Denk erom dat jouw antwoord van invloed is op de beslissing! Laat me hier jouw voorkeuren weten: https://nl.surveymonkey.com/r/8BZTJGJ Hello, This weekend will be the last occasion to fill out the questionnaire. After the weekend, the location and date of the LiveCode meeting will be decided on. Keep in mind that your answers affect the decisions! Tell me what you prefer: https://nl.surveymonkey.com/r/8BZTJGJ -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer KvK: 50277553 Installer Maker for LiveCode: http://qery.us/468 Buy my new book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner" http://qery.us/3fi LiveCode on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/runrev/ On 8/16/2015 00:38, Mark Schonewille wrote: > Hallo LiveCoders, > > Over enkele weken zal ik weer een bijeenkomst in Nederland organiseren. Om te peilen hoeveel belangstelling er is en waarin potenti?le deelnemers ge?nteresseerd zijn, heb ik een korte vragenlijst gemaakt. Het invullen van deze vragenlijst duurt maximaal 5 minuten. Je kunt de vragen hier vinden: > https://nl.surveymonkey.com/r/8BZTJGJ > > Hello LiveCoders, > > In a few weeks, I'll organise another meeting in the Netherlands. To estimate insterest in the meeting, I have created a questionnaire. Please fill out this form, even if you don't live exactly in the Netherlands but are interested in a meeting with other LiveCoders in Europe: > https://nl.surveymonkey.com/r/8BZTJGJ > > -- > Best regards, > > Mark Schonewille > > Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering > Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com > Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer > KvK: 50277553 > > Use Color Converter to convert CMYK, RGB, RAL, XYZ, H.Lab and other colour spaces. http://www.color-converter.com > > We have time for new software development projects. Contact me for a quote. > From livfoss at mac.com Thu Aug 27 04:29:21 2015 From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 09:29:21 +0100 Subject: screen readers In-Reply-To: <55DE0DD6.4050305@pdslabs.net> References: <55DE0DD6.4050305@pdslabs.net> Message-ID: I feel a bit Richmond-ish asking this (whether this is a good thing or a bad thing I leave as an exercise for the reader), but what is a screen reader in this context, and how and why has the very wide-ranging term ?accessibility? been hijacked in relation to it? I ask as an ignorant observer, but you never know, I might one day want to follow the path that Phil is taking (so far unsuccessfully, but probably it will be made to work in time). I suppose I?m getting too old to keep up with all this, but if anyone has a moment to explain, I?d be grateful. Graham > On 26 Aug 2015, at 20:04, Phil Davis wrote: > > Has anyone been able to make desktop stacks work with screen readers? I'm experimenting with the Mac's VoiceOver utility (included with OS X), and VO doesn't know how to interact with a stack - it identifies the window as "unknown" and doesn't allow you to interact with its elements/objects. > > Thanks for any tips or insights you can share any tips from your experience. > > -- > Phil Davis > From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Thu Aug 27 04:47:28 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 11:47:28 +0300 Subject: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card) In-Reply-To: <1440661743.55dec0ef7a0a7@www.server101.com> References: <1440661743.55dec0ef7a0a7@www.server101.com> Message-ID: <55DECEA0.7080609@gmail.com> On 08/27/2015 10:49 AM, RunRevPlanet wrote: > Kay C Lan said: > > > take the smart route and build adequate > > text handling into their products but allow > > integration with the industry leaders. > > One of the promoted strengths of LiveCode is that it is "live coding". In other > words I can make a change in my script and immediately see the effect. > > Now while I understand the virtues of using the external text editor of your > choice. With your example of XCode and an external editor, is it possible to set > breakpoints and single step through the code in your preferred external editor? Very well put. Certainly LiveCode should have a built-in scriptEditor, as should the Extension Builder in LiveCode 8 . . . see abusive comments elsewhere. > > When debugging in the live coding environment which is LiveCode I expect to be > able single step through *and* edit my code in the one place with more than the > current rudimentary facilities. While I give Geany as an example cause I like > it, it is known as a very light-weight IDE, so it is not a totally unreasonable > starting point for the minimum of what an adequate editor should be capable of. > > By all means allow external editors, but my point is the current LiveCode IDE > Script Editor is *not even adequate* and having external plugin editors doesn't > fully work around the usability issues. "not even adequate", um, by what set of criteria? Personally I like the LiveCode scriptEditor just because it is *NOT* so feature laden one gets lost. "usability issues" [yuck; my least favourite word again; 'issues') I would be most interested to see a *coherent and numbered list* of these "issues" rather than a chorus of people saying how awful the scriptEditor is. I used the scriptEditor of LC 4.5 (which seems the same as that in 7.0.5) to put together scripts that are 6,000 lines long (!!!!), do *search and replace* exercises and so on. I tried, a few times, transferring my code into an external editor (Appleworks, aka Clarisworks 6,on a MacPPC running 10.4), and while it did do search and replace a bit quicker (didn't give me time to gulp my coffee),apart from that there was no obvious advantage. Admittedly I am assessing the scriptEditor with only VB6 for comparison (which stinks). > -- > Scott McDonald > "Components, Controls, Tools and Resources for LiveCode" > www.runrevplanet.com > > Richmond. From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Thu Aug 27 04:52:06 2015 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 10:52:06 +0200 Subject: screen readers In-Reply-To: References: <55DE0DD6.4050305@pdslabs.net> Message-ID: <55DECFB6.6060001@economy-x-talk.com> Graham, A screen reader is software that allows visually challenged or visually impaired people to understand what is currently on their computer screen. It allows them to find the right control so they can press the return key or space bar to activate that control and it allows them to hear text that is displayed on the screen. A very well-known screen reader is JAWS but there are quite a few other commercial and open-source screen readers available. I believe the term "accessibility" is most appropriate in this matter. -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer KvK: 50277553 Installer Maker for LiveCode: http://qery.us/468 Buy my new book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner" http://qery.us/3fi LiveCode on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/runrev/ On 8/27/2015 10:29, Graham Samuel wrote: > I feel a bit Richmond-ish asking this (whether this is a good thing or a bad thing I leave as an exercise for the reader), but what is a screen reader in this context, and how and why has the very wide-ranging term ?accessibility? been hijacked in relation to it? I ask as an ignorant observer, but you never know, I might one day want to follow the path that Phil is taking (so far unsuccessfully, but probably it will be made to work in time). > > I suppose I?m getting too old to keep up with all this, but if anyone has a moment to explain, I?d be grateful. > > Graham > >> On 26 Aug 2015, at 20:04, Phil Davis wrote: >> >> Has anyone been able to make desktop stacks work with screen readers? I'm experimenting with the Mac's VoiceOver utility (included with OS X), and VO doesn't know how to interact with a stack - it identifies the window as "unknown" and doesn't allow you to interact with its elements/objects. >> >> Thanks for any tips or insights you can share any tips from your experience. >> >> -- >> Phil Davis >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Thu Aug 27 04:57:57 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 11:57:57 +0300 Subject: screen readers In-Reply-To: References: <55DE0DD6.4050305@pdslabs.net> Message-ID: <55DED115.4080207@gmail.com> On 08/27/2015 11:29 AM, Graham Samuel wrote: > I feel a bit Richmond-ish asking this (whether this is a good thing or a bad thing I leave as an exercise for the reader), but what is a screen reader in this context, and how and why has the very wide-ranging term ?accessibility? been hijacked in relation to it? I ask as an ignorant observer, but you never know, I might one day want to follow the path that Phil is taking (so far unsuccessfully, but probably it will be made to work in time). Ha, Ha; now you'll get what you deserve! As far as I understand "a screen reader in this context" is a piece of software that can turn any text in a LiveCode stack and/or standalone into speech to facilitate blind and partially sighted people. "Accessibility" is a bit like "Issues" . . . Woolly thinking reflected in woolly words, or that the people who use these sorts of words are so paranoid about being politically correct they forget that a spade is a 'spade' instead of an "earth relocation instrument", I just don't know! I think by 'accessibility' . . . 'in this context' . . . it is meant that a stack is not 'accessible' to blind people because they cannot see it, unless a screen reader can,somehow,verbalise what is displayed on screen. Now I need to be belted round the chops for using 'blind' rather than 'visually challenged'! > > I suppose I?m getting too old to keep up with all this, but if anyone has a moment to explain, I?d be grateful. I'll send you my spare Zimmer frame by return of post :) > > Graham > >> On 26 Aug 2015, at 20:04, Phil Davis wrote: >> >> Has anyone been able to make desktop stacks work with screen readers? I'm experimenting with the Mac's VoiceOver utility (included with OS X), and VO doesn't know how to interact with a stack - it identifies the window as "unknown" and doesn't allow you to interact with its elements/objects. >> >> Thanks for any tips or insights you can share any tips from your experience. >> >> -- >> Phil Davis >> > _______________________________________________ > Richmond, a cis-sexual, ectomorphic, previously non-standard hair-coloured, non-African person who enjoys an exogamous union outwith his country of origin. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Thu Aug 27 04:59:11 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 11:59:11 +0300 Subject: screen readers In-Reply-To: <55DECFB6.6060001@economy-x-talk.com> References: <55DE0DD6.4050305@pdslabs.net> <55DECFB6.6060001@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: <55DED15F.6060204@gmail.com> On 08/27/2015 11:52 AM, Mark Schonewille wrote: > Graham, > > A screen reader is software that allows visually challenged or > visually impaired people Oh, Joy! There we are! > to understand what is currently on their computer screen. It allows > them to find the right control so they can press the return key or > space bar to activate that control and it allows them to hear text > that is displayed on the screen. A very well-known screen reader is > JAWS but there are quite a few other commercial and open-source screen > readers available. I believe the term "accessibility" is most > appropriate in this matter. > > -- > Best regards, > > Mark Schonewille > Richmond. From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Thu Aug 27 05:05:03 2015 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 11:05:03 +0200 Subject: screen readers In-Reply-To: <55DED15F.6060204@gmail.com> References: <55DE0DD6.4050305@pdslabs.net> <55DECFB6.6060001@economy-x-talk.com> <55DED15F.6060204@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55DED2BF.8020102@economy-x-talk.com> Richmond, Not everybody who has eye problems is immediately blind. At least, not in my environment. -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer KvK: 50277553 Installer Maker for LiveCode: http://qery.us/468 Buy my new book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner" http://qery.us/3fi LiveCode on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/runrev/ On 8/27/2015 10:59, Richmond wrote: > > > On 08/27/2015 11:52 AM, Mark Schonewille wrote: >> Graham, >> >> A screen reader is software that allows visually challenged or >> visually impaired people > > Oh, Joy! There we are! > >> to understand what is currently on their computer screen. It allows >> them to find the right control so they can press the return key or >> space bar to activate that control and it allows them to hear text >> that is displayed on the screen. A very well-known screen reader is >> JAWS but there are quite a few other commercial and open-source screen >> readers available. I believe the term "accessibility" is most >> appropriate in this matter. >> >> -- >> Best regards, >> >> Mark Schonewille >> > > Richmond. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From charles at techstrategies.com.au Thu Aug 27 05:26:14 2015 From: charles at techstrategies.com.au (Charles Warwick) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 19:26:14 +1000 Subject: Building from develop on OS X In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <35B5E6B5-FBD5-4D46-9389-4DB16ECF7E0F@techstrategies.com.au> Tried all of those, but still the same problems. I get an error that looks like this: https://www.dropbox.com/s/wng4xqzbivacyr1/livecode-develop-error.png?dl=0 Followed by another window saying: Error while loading stack: /Users/?./livecode/ide/Toolset/libraries/revidelibrary.8.livecodescript > On 26 Aug 2015, at 11:39 pm, Ali Lloyd wrote: > > Ah actually, on second thoughts it is probably the extensions target that > you need to build. > > On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 2:43 PM Ali Lloyd wrote: > >> It sounds like you haven't built the revZip target (and probably the other >> externals too). Try building the LiveCode-all target and then run >> development again. >> >> Ali >> >> On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 1:33 PM Charles Warwick < >> charles at techstrategies.com.au> wrote: >> >>> After causing myself some problems with my local copy of the develop >>> branch of LiveCode, I pulled down a fresh copy of the repo today and built >>> it under OS X. >>> >>> While it built successfully and starts ok, the extensions manager only >>> opens as an empty window, and none of the widgets show in the tools palette >>> (the classic objects do show). >>> >>> Has anyone else tried to build the develop branch today under OS X? I am >>> trying to work out if I?ve messed up something on my local machine.. >>> >>> My build from about a week ago was working fine, and I built it under >>> Linux today also with no problems (though not with at exact same commit >>> level). >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Charles. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Thu Aug 27 05:26:56 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 12:26:56 +0300 Subject: screen readers In-Reply-To: <55DED2BF.8020102@economy-x-talk.com> References: <55DE0DD6.4050305@pdslabs.net> <55DECFB6.6060001@economy-x-talk.com> <55DED15F.6060204@gmail.com> <55DED2BF.8020102@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: <55DED7E0.3000207@gmail.com> On 08/27/2015 12:05 PM, Mark Schonewille wrote: > Richmond, > > Not everybody who has eye problems is immediately blind. At least, not > in my environment. I assumed you were using "visually challenged" as a euphemism for 'blind', and "visually impaired" for 'partially sighted'. Otherwise there was no need whatsoever for your reduplication: "visually challenged or visually impaired people. Best, Richmond. > > -- > Best regards, > > Mark Schonewille > > Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering > Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com > Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer > KvK: 50277553 > > Installer Maker for LiveCode: > http://qery.us/468 > > Buy my new book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner" > http://qery.us/3fi > > LiveCode on Facebook: > https://www.facebook.com/groups/runrev/ > > On 8/27/2015 10:59, Richmond wrote: >> >> >> On 08/27/2015 11:52 AM, Mark Schonewille wrote: >>> Graham, >>> >>> A screen reader is software that allows visually challenged or >>> visually impaired people >> >> Oh, Joy! There we are! >> >>> to understand what is currently on their computer screen. It allows >>> them to find the right control so they can press the return key or >>> space bar to activate that control and it allows them to hear text >>> that is displayed on the screen. A very well-known screen reader is >>> JAWS but there are quite a few other commercial and open-source screen >>> readers available. I believe the term "accessibility" is most >>> appropriate in this matter. >>> >>> -- >>> Best regards, >>> >>> Mark Schonewille >>> >> >> Richmond. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From livfoss at mac.com Thu Aug 27 05:36:02 2015 From: livfoss at mac.com (Graham Samuel) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 10:36:02 +0100 Subject: screen readers In-Reply-To: <55DECFB6.6060001@economy-x-talk.com> References: <55DE0DD6.4050305@pdslabs.net> <55DECFB6.6060001@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: Mark, thanks for that quick, comprehensive and clear reply. Graham PS In this particular context, I don?t want to be drawn into a discussion of the ?political correctness? of the terminology - so far, so un-Richmond-ish. > On 27 Aug 2015, at 09:52, Mark Schonewille wrote: > > Graham, > > A screen reader is software that allows visually challenged or visually impaired people to understand what is currently on their computer screen. It allows them to find the right control so they can press the return key or space bar to activate that control and it allows them to hear text that is displayed on the screen. A very well-known screen reader is JAWS but there are quite a few other commercial and open-source screen readers available. I believe the term "accessibility" is most appropriate in this matter. > > -- > Best regards, > > Mark Schonewille > > Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering > Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com > Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer > KvK: 50277553 > > Installer Maker for LiveCode: > http://qery.us/468 > > Buy my new book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner" http://qery.us/3fi > > LiveCode on Facebook: > https://www.facebook.com/groups/runrev/ > > On 8/27/2015 10:29, Graham Samuel wrote: >> I feel a bit Richmond-ish asking this (whether this is a good thing or a bad thing I leave as an exercise for the reader), but what is a screen reader in this context, and how and why has the very wide-ranging term ?accessibility? been hijacked in relation to it? I ask as an ignorant observer, but you never know, I might one day want to follow the path that Phil is taking (so far unsuccessfully, but probably it will be made to work in time). >> >> I suppose I?m getting too old to keep up with all this, but if anyone has a moment to explain, I?d be grateful. >> >> Graham >> >>> On 26 Aug 2015, at 20:04, Phil Davis wrote: >>> >>> Has anyone been able to make desktop stacks work with screen readers? I'm experimenting with the Mac's VoiceOver utility (included with OS X), and VO doesn't know how to interact with a stack - it identifies the window as "unknown" and doesn't allow you to interact with its elements/objects. >>> >>> Thanks for any tips or insights you can share any tips from your experience. >>> >>> -- >>> Phil Davis From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Thu Aug 27 05:38:31 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 12:38:31 +0300 Subject: screen readers In-Reply-To: References: <55DE0DD6.4050305@pdslabs.net> <55DECFB6.6060001@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: <55DEDA97.2090001@gmail.com> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_screen_readers Richmond. From ali.lloyd at livecode.com Thu Aug 27 06:01:58 2015 From: ali.lloyd at livecode.com (Ali Lloyd) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 10:01:58 +0000 Subject: Building from develop on OS X In-Reply-To: <35B5E6B5-FBD5-4D46-9389-4DB16ECF7E0F@techstrategies.com.au> References: <35B5E6B5-FBD5-4D46-9389-4DB16ECF7E0F@techstrategies.com.au> Message-ID: Hmm, those errors suggest revXML hasn't built properly. If you specifically built the revXML target, does it appear to succeed? On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 10:26 AM Charles Warwick < charles at techstrategies.com.au> wrote: > Tried all of those, but still the same problems. > > I get an error that looks like this: > > https://www.dropbox.com/s/wng4xqzbivacyr1/livecode-develop-error.png?dl=0 > > > > Followed by another window saying: > > Error while loading stack: > > /Users/?./livecode/ide/Toolset/libraries/revidelibrary.8.livecodescript > > > On 26 Aug 2015, at 11:39 pm, Ali Lloyd wrote: > > > > Ah actually, on second thoughts it is probably the extensions target that > > you need to build. > > > > On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 2:43 PM Ali Lloyd > wrote: > > > >> It sounds like you haven't built the revZip target (and probably the > other > >> externals too). Try building the LiveCode-all target and then run > >> development again. > >> > >> Ali > >> > >> On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 1:33 PM Charles Warwick < > >> charles at techstrategies.com.au> wrote: > >> > >>> After causing myself some problems with my local copy of the develop > >>> branch of LiveCode, I pulled down a fresh copy of the repo today and > built > >>> it under OS X. > >>> > >>> While it built successfully and starts ok, the extensions manager only > >>> opens as an empty window, and none of the widgets show in the tools > palette > >>> (the classic objects do show). > >>> > >>> Has anyone else tried to build the develop branch today under OS X? I > am > >>> trying to work out if I?ve messed up something on my local machine.. > >>> > >>> My build from about a week ago was working fine, and I built it under > >>> Linux today also with no problems (though not with at exact same commit > >>> level). > >>> > >>> Cheers, > >>> > >>> Charles. > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> use-livecode mailing list > >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >>> subscription preferences: > >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Thu Aug 27 06:07:14 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 13:07:14 +0300 Subject: screen readers In-Reply-To: References: <55DE0DD6.4050305@pdslabs.net> <55DECFB6.6060001@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: <55DEE152.3010107@gmail.com> One of the 'snags' with most screen readers is that they are NOT really screen readers at all, they are programs that read the content inwith windows of programs with which they are compatible. Until (?????) someone develops a LiveCode-specific screen reader, what would be required is a reader that is, indeed a screen reader insofar as it would read either the whole screen or the top-level window on that screen regardless of what program it belonged to. This is pretty interesting: http://webaim.org/techniques/screenreader/ as is this: http://usabilitygeek.com/10-free-screen-reader-blind-visually-impaired-users/ However, I should point out that Orca, while being installable on my Xubuntu 64-bit machine doesn't start up. Most screen readers seem devoted to internet browsers only. Richmond. From charles at techstrategies.com.au Thu Aug 27 06:08:27 2015 From: charles at techstrategies.com.au (Charles Warwick) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 20:08:27 +1000 Subject: Building from develop on OS X In-Reply-To: References: <35B5E6B5-FBD5-4D46-9389-4DB16ECF7E0F@techstrategies.com.au> Message-ID: Ah? specifically built the revXML target - which succeeded. Then ran development again and all was good :-) Not sure why that wasn?t getting built when building LiveCode-all target? Thanks Ali > On 27 Aug 2015, at 8:01 pm, Ali Lloyd wrote: > > Hmm, those errors suggest revXML hasn't built properly. If you specifically > built the revXML target, does it appear to succeed? > > On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 10:26 AM Charles Warwick < > charles at techstrategies.com.au> wrote: > >> Tried all of those, but still the same problems. >> >> I get an error that looks like this: >> >> https://www.dropbox.com/s/wng4xqzbivacyr1/livecode-develop-error.png?dl=0 >> >> >> >> Followed by another window saying: >> >> Error while loading stack: >> >> /Users/?./livecode/ide/Toolset/libraries/revidelibrary.8.livecodescript >> >>> On 26 Aug 2015, at 11:39 pm, Ali Lloyd wrote: >>> >>> Ah actually, on second thoughts it is probably the extensions target that >>> you need to build. >>> >>> On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 2:43 PM Ali Lloyd >> wrote: >>> >>>> It sounds like you haven't built the revZip target (and probably the >> other >>>> externals too). Try building the LiveCode-all target and then run >>>> development again. >>>> >>>> Ali >>>> >>>> On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 1:33 PM Charles Warwick < >>>> charles at techstrategies.com.au> wrote: >>>> >>>>> After causing myself some problems with my local copy of the develop >>>>> branch of LiveCode, I pulled down a fresh copy of the repo today and >> built >>>>> it under OS X. >>>>> >>>>> While it built successfully and starts ok, the extensions manager only >>>>> opens as an empty window, and none of the widgets show in the tools >> palette >>>>> (the classic objects do show). >>>>> >>>>> Has anyone else tried to build the develop branch today under OS X? I >> am >>>>> trying to work out if I?ve messed up something on my local machine.. >>>>> >>>>> My build from about a week ago was working fine, and I built it under >>>>> Linux today also with no problems (though not with at exact same commit >>>>> level). >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> >>>>> Charles. >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>>> subscription preferences: >>>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com Thu Aug 27 06:09:48 2015 From: m.schonewille at economy-x-talk.com (Mark Schonewille) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 12:09:48 +0200 Subject: screen readers In-Reply-To: <55DED7E0.3000207@gmail.com> References: <55DE0DD6.4050305@pdslabs.net> <55DECFB6.6060001@economy-x-talk.com> <55DED15F.6060204@gmail.com> <55DED2BF.8020102@economy-x-talk.com> <55DED7E0.3000207@gmail.com> Message-ID: I thought it was the other way around: visually challenged for partially sighted and visually impaired for blind. As a non-native speaker of English, it doesn't mattering to me. I just copy what I read or hear without any emotions attached to the words themselves. -- Kind regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Http://economy-x-talk.com Share the clipboard of your computer over a local network with Clipboard Link http://clipboardlink.economy-x-talk.com Op 27 aug. 2015 om 11:26 heeft Richmond het volgende geschreven: > On 08/27/2015 12:05 PM, Mark Schonewille wrote: >> Richmond, >> >> Not everybody who has eye problems is immediately blind. At least, not in my environment. > > I assumed you were using "visually challenged" as a euphemism for 'blind', and "visually impaired" for 'partially sighted'. > > Otherwise there was no need whatsoever for your reduplication: "visually challenged or visually impaired people. > > Best, Richmond. > >> >> -- >> Best regards, >> >> Mark Schonewille >> >> Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering >> Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com >> Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer >> KvK: 50277553 >> >> Installer Maker for LiveCode: >> http://qery.us/468 >> >> Buy my new book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner" http://qery.us/3fi >> >> LiveCode on Facebook: >> https://www.facebook.com/groups/runrev/ >> >> On 8/27/2015 10:59, Richmond wrote: >>> >>> >>> On 08/27/2015 11:52 AM, Mark Schonewille wrote: >>>> Graham, >>>> >>>> A screen reader is software that allows visually challenged or >>>> visually impaired people >>> >>> Oh, Joy! There we are! >>> >>>> to understand what is currently on their computer screen. It allows >>>> them to find the right control so they can press the return key or >>>> space bar to activate that control and it allows them to hear text >>>> that is displayed on the screen. A very well-known screen reader is >>>> JAWS but there are quite a few other commercial and open-source screen >>>> readers available. I believe the term "accessibility" is most >>>> appropriate in this matter. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Best regards, >>>> >>>> Mark Schonewille >>> >>> Richmond. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Thu Aug 27 06:22:21 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 13:22:21 +0300 Subject: screen readers In-Reply-To: References: <55DE0DD6.4050305@pdslabs.net> <55DECFB6.6060001@economy-x-talk.com> <55DED15F.6060204@gmail.com> <55DED2BF.8020102@economy-x-talk.com> <55DED7E0.3000207@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55DEE4DD.20107@gmail.com> On 08/27/2015 01:09 PM, Mark Schonewille wrote: > I thought it was the other way around: visually challenged for partially sighted and visually impaired for blind. As a non-native speaker of English, it doesn't mattering to me. I just copy what I read or hear without any emotions attached to the words themselves. Ik ben niet emotioneel betrokken bij het Engels. Ah willnae fash mysel anent vocable intil Sudron, but it maks me fair forfechit quhan fowk spak wi sic unco glaikit vocables that one cannae tak tent at quhat they are speiran eftir. An Ah weel ken quhat a blinn mon is, an Ah weel ken quhat a poncy professur mun be, forbye. Yours aye, Richmond. > > -- > Kind regards, > > Mark Schonewille > Economy-x-Talk > Http://economy-x-talk.com > > Share the clipboard of your computer over a local network with Clipboard Link http://clipboardlink.economy-x-talk.com > > > Op 27 aug. 2015 om 11:26 heeft Richmond het volgende geschreven: > >> On 08/27/2015 12:05 PM, Mark Schonewille wrote: >>> Richmond, >>> >>> Not everybody who has eye problems is immediately blind. At least, not in my environment. >> I assumed you were using "visually challenged" as a euphemism for 'blind', and "visually impaired" for 'partially sighted'. >> >> Otherwise there was no need whatsoever for your reduplication: "visually challenged or visually impaired people. >> >> Best, Richmond. >> >>> -- >>> Best regards, >>> >>> Mark Schonewille >>> >>> Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering >>> Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com >>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer >>> KvK: 50277553 >>> >>> Installer Maker for LiveCode: >>> http://qery.us/468 >>> >>> Buy my new book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner" http://qery.us/3fi >>> >>> LiveCode on Facebook: >>> https://www.facebook.com/groups/runrev/ >>> >>> On 8/27/2015 10:59, Richmond wrote: >>>> >>>> On 08/27/2015 11:52 AM, Mark Schonewille wrote: >>>>> Graham, >>>>> >>>>> A screen reader is software that allows visually challenged or >>>>> visually impaired people >>>> Oh, Joy! There we are! >>>> >>>>> to understand what is currently on their computer screen. It allows >>>>> them to find the right control so they can press the return key or >>>>> space bar to activate that control and it allows them to hear text >>>>> that is displayed on the screen. A very well-known screen reader is >>>>> JAWS but there are quite a few other commercial and open-source screen >>>>> readers available. I believe the term "accessibility" is most >>>>> appropriate in this matter. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Best regards, >>>>> >>>>> Mark Schonewille >>>> Richmond. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From feed at smpcsupport.com Thu Aug 27 07:03:06 2015 From: feed at smpcsupport.com (RunRevPlanet) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 21:03:06 +1000 Subject: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card) Message-ID: <1440673386.55deee6a2bbbe@www.server101.com> Richmond said: > I would be most interested to see a > *coherent and numbered list* of > these "issues" rather than a chorus > of people saying how awful the > scriptEditor is. I put a numbered list of 10 issues (some with sub points) in the "Open Source Kickstarter Report Card" thread over a week ago when Richard G. made me "IDE Czar for a day." Hypothetically, of course. The points weren't repeated in this new thread because I didn't want to bore anyone. Were they coherent? I will leave that for history to decide. -- Scott McDonald "Components, Controls, Tools and Resources for LiveCode" www.runrevplanet.com From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Thu Aug 27 08:02:27 2015 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 08:02:27 -0400 Subject: v8 DP3 In-Reply-To: <55DEB872.6080901@gmail.com> References: <55DDD9F5.4040803@gmail.com> <55DDE73B.1040803@warrensweb.us> <55DE2F8C.4080405@gmail.com> <55DEB209.8040403@gmail.com> <1392CC08-70FC-4784-A05C-1A2AF4E1321B@techstrategies.com.au> <55DEB872.6080901@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Aug 27, 2015 3:13 AM, "Richmond" wrote: > > Aha. > > Well then the Documentation is awful as it makes none of these things clear. > > Over the last 40 years (cripes what a long time) I have yet to encounter any sort of computer programming manual > that doesn't assume the reader knows all sorts of things already. > > People who write these sorts of manuals ought to go and take a short course in reader-response theory, and... [BROKEN WALL]. ;-) I see an opportunity for you, Richmond. As you learn to use LiveCode Builder from the basics going forward, write a book and get it published as "LiveCode Builder for Dummies". From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Thu Aug 27 08:29:30 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 15:29:30 +0300 Subject: v8 DP3 In-Reply-To: References: <55DDD9F5.4040803@gmail.com> <55DDE73B.1040803@warrensweb.us> <55DE2F8C.4080405@gmail.com> <55DEB209.8040403@gmail.com> <1392CC08-70FC-4784-A05C-1A2AF4E1321B@techstrategies.com.au> <55DEB872.6080901@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55DF02AA.7080406@gmail.com> On 08/27/2015 03:02 PM, Roger Eller wrote: > On Aug 27, 2015 3:13 AM, "Richmond" wrote: >> Aha. >> >> Well then the Documentation is awful as it makes none of these things > clear. >> Over the last 40 years (cripes what a long time) I have yet to encounter > any sort of computer programming manual >> that doesn't assume the reader knows all sorts of things already. >> >> People who write these sorts of manuals ought to go and take a short > course in reader-response theory, and... > > [BROKEN WALL]. ;-) > > I see an opportunity for you, Richmond. As you learn to use LiveCode > Builder from the basics going forward, write a book and get it published as > "LiveCode Builder for Dummies". That is not as daft as it sounds. The only problem is that I am working my way towards using my teaching stuff to write a book called "LiveCode for Primary Kids". Richmond. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From monte at sweattechnologies.com Thu Aug 27 08:36:51 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 22:36:51 +1000 Subject: v8 DP3 In-Reply-To: <55DF02AA.7080406@gmail.com> References: <55DDD9F5.4040803@gmail.com> <55DDE73B.1040803@warrensweb.us> <55DE2F8C.4080405@gmail.com> <55DEB209.8040403@gmail.com> <1392CC08-70FC-4784-A05C-1A2AF4E1321B@techstrategies.com.au> <55DEB872.6080901@gmail.com> <55DF02AA.7080406@gmail.com> Message-ID: <562219D8-CA84-4181-8FBA-52675182CE91@sweattechnologies.com> > On 27 Aug 2015, at 10:29 pm, Richmond wrote: > > The only problem is that I am working my way towards using my teaching stuff to > write a book called "LiveCode for Primary Kids". I?ll buy that as soon as it?s released. My son Matthew (9) is working his way through all the drag and drop block programming stuff he can find (Hopscotch, Scratch et al) so soon he'll be ready to start playing with LC. From david at viral.academy Thu Aug 27 10:39:36 2015 From: david at viral.academy (David Bovill) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 15:39:36 +0100 Subject: Quick Challenge Message-ID: So what's the quickest way to tell is a word is all caps in Livecode? I guess there are a lot of ways to skin a cat with this one. This is what I'm tinkering with: function text_IsCaps someText > put "\b[A-Z]+\b" into someReg > return matchtext (word 1 to -1 of someText, someReg, anyThing) > > repeat for each char testChar in someText > put chartonum (testChar) into someCharNum > if someCharNum >= 65 and someCharNum <= 90 then > return false > end if > end repeat > return true > end text_IsCaps From revolution at derbrill.de Thu Aug 27 10:47:52 2015 From: revolution at derbrill.de (Malte Brill) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 16:47:52 +0200 Subject: Quick Challenge In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <094A262A-0731-477B-B584-6A3B065A0A14@derbrill.de> Hi David, off the top of my head: function text_is_Caps pText set the caseSensitive to true return pText = toUpper(pText) end text_is_Caps Cheers, Malte -- derbrill IT-service Malte Pfaff-Brill Alsenstr. 15, d-24768 Rendsburg Tel: +49 4331-337 640 0 eMail: info at derbrill.de web: http://www.derbrill.de Steuernummer: 28 015 03865 VAT ID: DE223571286 Bankverbindung: BIC: GENODEF1KIL IBAN: DE87 2109 0007 0088 2849 05 Kieler Volksbank e.G. Kontoinhaber Malte Pfaff-Brill From colinholgate at gmail.com Thu Aug 27 10:52:11 2015 From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 10:52:11 -0400 Subject: Quick Challenge In-Reply-To: <094A262A-0731-477B-B584-6A3B065A0A14@derbrill.de> References: <094A262A-0731-477B-B584-6A3B065A0A14@derbrill.de> Message-ID: Almost typed fast enough to post the same answer! > On Aug 27, 2015, at 10:47 AM, Malte Brill wrote: > > Hi David, > > off the top of my head: > > function text_is_Caps pText > set the caseSensitive to true > return pText = toUpper(pText) > end text_is_Caps > > Cheers, > > Malte > > > > -- > derbrill IT-service Malte Pfaff-Brill > Alsenstr. 15, d-24768 Rendsburg > Tel: +49 4331-337 640 0 > eMail: info at derbrill.de web: http://www.derbrill.de > Steuernummer: 28 015 03865 VAT ID: DE223571286 > Bankverbindung: BIC: GENODEF1KIL IBAN: DE87 2109 0007 0088 2849 05 Kieler Volksbank e.G. > Kontoinhaber Malte Pfaff-Brill > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Thu Aug 27 11:08:15 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 18:08:15 +0300 Subject: Quick Challenge In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55DF27DF.1050905@gmail.com> On 08/27/2015 05:39 PM, David Bovill wrote: > So what's the quickest way to tell is a word is all caps in Livecode? I > guess there are a lot of ways to skin a cat with this one. This is what I'm > tinkering with: > > function text_IsCaps someText >> put "\b[A-Z]+\b" into someReg >> return matchtext (word 1 to -1 of someText, someReg, anyThing) >> >> repeat for each char testChar in someText >> put chartonum (testChar) into someCharNum >> if someCharNum >= 65 and someCharNum <= 90 then >> return false >> end if >> end repeat >> return true >> end text_IsCaps > IFF you are just working within the ASCII set that should be dead easy: if you are using anything within the UniCode standard I suspect you have no chance at all. Richmond. From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Thu Aug 27 11:09:07 2015 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 11:09:07 -0400 Subject: Quick Challenge In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: A silly variation... on mouseUp set the caseSensitive to true put "Mary had a little LAMB. Its fleece was WHITE as cocaine. Everywhere that Mary went, she would shout, WINNING!" into tWords replace "." with empty in tWords replace "," with empty in tWords replace "!" with empty in tWords repeat for each word thisWord in tWords if thisWord is toUpper(thisWord) then put thisWord & cr after tCapWords end repeat set the caseSensitive to false answer tCapWords end mouseUp On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 10:39 AM, David Bovill wrote: > So what's the quickest way to tell is a word is all caps in Livecode? I > guess there are a lot of ways to skin a cat with this one. This is what I'm > tinkering with: > > function text_IsCaps someText > > put "\b[A-Z]+\b" into someReg > > return matchtext (word 1 to -1 of someText, someReg, anyThing) > > > > repeat for each char testChar in someText > > put chartonum (testChar) into someCharNum > > if someCharNum >= 65 and someCharNum <= 90 then > > return false > > end if > > end repeat > > return true > > end text_IsCaps > > From david at viral.academy Thu Aug 27 11:12:39 2015 From: david at viral.academy (David Bovill) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 16:12:39 +0100 Subject: Quick Challenge In-Reply-To: References: <094A262A-0731-477B-B584-6A3B065A0A14@derbrill.de> Message-ID: Ah yes... I should think that's the fastest.... On Thursday, August 27, 2015, Colin Holgate wrote: > Almost typed fast enough to post the same answer! > > > > On Aug 27, 2015, at 10:47 AM, Malte Brill > wrote: > > > > Hi David, > > > > off the top of my head: > > > > function text_is_Caps pText > > set the caseSensitive to true > > return pText = toUpper(pText) > > end text_is_Caps > > > > Cheers, > > > > Malte > > > > > > > > -- > > derbrill IT-service Malte Pfaff-Brill > > Alsenstr. 15, d-24768 Rendsburg > > Tel: +49 4331-337 640 0 > > eMail: info at derbrill.de web: http://www.derbrill.de > > Steuernummer: 28 015 03865 VAT ID: DE223571286 > > Bankverbindung: BIC: GENODEF1KIL IBAN: DE87 2109 0007 0088 2849 05 > Kieler Volksbank e.G. > > Kontoinhaber Malte Pfaff-Brill > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From bonnmike at gmail.com Thu Aug 27 11:15:19 2015 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 09:15:19 -0600 Subject: Quick Challenge In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Rogers, using truewords on mouseUp set the caseSensitive to true put "Mary had a little LAMB. Its fleece was WHITE as cocaine. Everywhere that Mary went, she would shout, WINNING!" into tWords repeat for each trueword thisWord in tWords if thisWord is toUpper(thisWord) then put thisWord & cr after tCapWords end repeat set the caseSensitive to false answer tCapWords end mouseUp On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 9:09 AM, Roger Eller wrote: > A silly variation... > > on mouseUp > set the caseSensitive to true > put "Mary had a little LAMB. Its fleece was WHITE as cocaine. Everywhere > that Mary went, she would shout, WINNING!" into tWords > replace "." with empty in tWords > replace "," with empty in tWords > replace "!" with empty in tWords > repeat for each word thisWord in tWords > if thisWord is toUpper(thisWord) then put thisWord & cr after > tCapWords > end repeat > set the caseSensitive to false > answer tCapWords > end mouseUp > > > > On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 10:39 AM, David Bovill > wrote: > > > So what's the quickest way to tell is a word is all caps in Livecode? I > > guess there are a lot of ways to skin a cat with this one. This is what > I'm > > tinkering with: > > > > function text_IsCaps someText > > > put "\b[A-Z]+\b" into someReg > > > return matchtext (word 1 to -1 of someText, someReg, anyThing) > > > > > > repeat for each char testChar in someText > > > put chartonum (testChar) into someCharNum > > > if someCharNum >= 65 and someCharNum <= 90 then > > > return false > > > end if > > > end repeat > > > return true > > > end text_IsCaps > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Thu Aug 27 11:20:09 2015 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 11:20:09 -0400 Subject: Quick Challenge In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: COOL!!! I just learned a new thing! Thanks Mike. On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 11:15 AM, Mike Bonner wrote: > Rogers, using truewords > > on mouseUp > set the caseSensitive to true > put "Mary had a little LAMB. Its fleece was WHITE as cocaine. > Everywhere that > Mary went, she would shout, WINNING!" into tWords > repeat for each trueword thisWord in tWords > if thisWord is toUpper(thisWord) then put thisWord & cr after > tCapWords > end repeat > set the caseSensitive to false > answer tCapWords > end mouseUp > > From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Thu Aug 27 11:39:33 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 18:39:33 +0300 Subject: Quick Challenge In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55DF2F35.7060200@gmail.com> Lots of clever answers . . . Now try with this text: ?????????????? ?????? ????? ????? ???? ???? ???? ?????????????? ?????????????????. ??? ??? ?????? ????????? ?????????? ?????????? ????????????: ?????? ????? ??????? ?????? ????????? ??????? ????????? ????? ???? ?? ???? ?? ????? ?????, ??? ??? ????????` ?? ?????? ?????? ??????? ???? (???????? ?? ????????) ?????????? ??, ?? ???????` ???? ????? ?? ????? ??????? ??????? ?? ????????? ?????????? ?? ?????????? ??????????? ????????? Before anyone asks, this is Armenian. Richmond. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Thu Aug 27 11:52:23 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 18:52:23 +0300 Subject: Quick Challenge In-Reply-To: <55DF2F35.7060200@gmail.com> References: <55DF2F35.7060200@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55DF3237.3010809@gmail.com> On 08/27/2015 06:39 PM, Richmond wrote: > Lots of clever answers . . . > > Now try with this text: > > ?????????????? ?????? ????? ????? ???? ???? ???? ?????????????? > ?????????????????. ??? ??? ?????? ????????? ?????????? ?????????? > ????????????: ?????? ????? ??????? ?????? ????????? ??????? ????????? > ????? ???? ?? ???? ?? ????? ?????, ??? ??? ????????` ?? ?????? ?????? > ??????? ???? (???????? ?? ????????) ?????????? ??, ?? ???????` ???? > ????? ?? ????? ??????? ??????? ?? ????????? ?????????? ?? ?????????? > ??????????? ????????? > > Before anyone asks, this is Armenian. > > Richmond. Surprisingly enough Roger's, with trueWord and reversed (toLower) [as there are NO words in the Armenian text all in capitals] worked a treat: on mouseUp set the caseSensitive to true put fld "armenian" into tWords repeat for each trueword thisWord in tWords if thisWord is toLower(thisWord) then put thisWord & cr after fld "resultF" end repeat set the caseSensitive to false end mouseUp https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ja47l87gg87sn0q/AAAIj99kEQVOb8ev3jz8C5ORa?dl=0 file: lowerCase.zip Richmond. From prothero at earthednet.org Thu Aug 27 12:31:45 2015 From: prothero at earthednet.org (Earthednet-wp) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 09:31:45 -0700 Subject: v8 DP3 In-Reply-To: <562219D8-CA84-4181-8FBA-52675182CE91@sweattechnologies.com> References: <55DDD9F5.4040803@gmail.com> <55DDE73B.1040803@warrensweb.us> <55DE2F8C.4080405@gmail.com> <55DEB209.8040403@gmail.com> <1392CC08-70FC-4784-A05C-1A2AF4E1321B@techstrategies.com.au> <55DEB872.6080901@gmail.com> <55DF02AA.7080406@gmail.com> <562219D8-CA84-4181-8FBA-52675182CE91@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <0B3F6947-F136-4CB0-AEC0-D9AF747562A5@earthednet.org> Richmond, I'll buy it too. I have a grandson who might get into it. Not to mention a two sons who are elementary school teachers. Get on it! Bill William Prothero http://es.earthednet.org > On Aug 27, 2015, at 5:36 AM, Monte Goulding wrote: > > >> On 27 Aug 2015, at 10:29 pm, Richmond wrote: >> >> The only problem is that I am working my way towards using my teaching stuff to >> write a book called "LiveCode for Primary Kids". > > I?ll buy that as soon as it?s released. My son Matthew (9) is working his way through all the drag and drop block programming stuff he can find (Hopscotch, Scratch et al) so soon he'll be ready to start playing with LC. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bonnmike at gmail.com Thu Aug 27 13:04:43 2015 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 11:04:43 -0600 Subject: v8 DP3 In-Reply-To: <0B3F6947-F136-4CB0-AEC0-D9AF747562A5@earthednet.org> References: <55DDD9F5.4040803@gmail.com> <55DDE73B.1040803@warrensweb.us> <55DE2F8C.4080405@gmail.com> <55DEB209.8040403@gmail.com> <1392CC08-70FC-4784-A05C-1A2AF4E1321B@techstrategies.com.au> <55DEB872.6080901@gmail.com> <55DF02AA.7080406@gmail.com> <562219D8-CA84-4181-8FBA-52675182CE91@sweattechnologies.com> <0B3F6947-F136-4CB0-AEC0-D9AF747562A5@earthednet.org> Message-ID: I'd spring for several and provide them to the local computer lab. (depending on price of course. Very limited funds) On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 10:31 AM, Earthednet-wp wrote: > Richmond, > I'll buy it too. I have a grandson who might get into it. Not to mention a > two sons who are elementary school teachers. > > Get on it! > Bill > > William Prothero > http://es.earthednet.org > > > On Aug 27, 2015, at 5:36 AM, Monte Goulding > wrote: > > > > > >> On 27 Aug 2015, at 10:29 pm, Richmond > wrote: > >> > >> The only problem is that I am working my way towards using my teaching > stuff to > >> write a book called "LiveCode for Primary Kids". > > > > I?ll buy that as soon as it?s released. My son Matthew (9) is working > his way through all the drag and drop block programming stuff he can find > (Hopscotch, Scratch et al) so soon he'll be ready to start playing with LC. > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From revdev at pdslabs.net Thu Aug 27 13:20:34 2015 From: revdev at pdslabs.net (Phil Davis) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 10:20:34 -0700 Subject: screen readers In-Reply-To: References: <55DE0DD6.4050305@pdslabs.net> <55DECFB6.6060001@economy-x-talk.com> Message-ID: <55DF46E2.9010505@pdslabs.net> I still contend that Richmond is secretly paid by LC to keep list discussions "interesting". Of course as their paid minion, I would expect him to deny this. (tongue firmly in cheek) ;-) Phil On 8/27/15 2:36 AM, Graham Samuel wrote: > Mark, thanks for that quick, comprehensive and clear reply. > > Graham > > PS In this particular context, I don?t want to be drawn into a discussion of the ?political correctness? of the terminology - so far, so un-Richmond-ish. > >> On 27 Aug 2015, at 09:52, Mark Schonewille wrote: >> >> Graham, >> >> A screen reader is software that allows visually challenged or visually impaired people to understand what is currently on their computer screen. It allows them to find the right control so they can press the return key or space bar to activate that control and it allows them to hear text that is displayed on the screen. A very well-known screen reader is JAWS but there are quite a few other commercial and open-source screen readers available. I believe the term "accessibility" is most appropriate in this matter. >> >> -- >> Best regards, >> >> Mark Schonewille >> >> Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering >> Homepage: http://economy-x-talk.com >> Twitter: http://twitter.com/xtalkprogrammer >> KvK: 50277553 >> >> Installer Maker for LiveCode: >> http://qery.us/468 >> >> Buy my new book "Programming LiveCode for the Real Beginner" http://qery.us/3fi >> >> LiveCode on Facebook: >> https://www.facebook.com/groups/runrev/ >> >> On 8/27/2015 10:29, Graham Samuel wrote: >>> I feel a bit Richmond-ish asking this (whether this is a good thing or a bad thing I leave as an exercise for the reader), but what is a screen reader in this context, and how and why has the very wide-ranging term ?accessibility? been hijacked in relation to it? I ask as an ignorant observer, but you never know, I might one day want to follow the path that Phil is taking (so far unsuccessfully, but probably it will be made to work in time). >>> >>> I suppose I?m getting too old to keep up with all this, but if anyone has a moment to explain, I?d be grateful. >>> >>> Graham >>> >>>> On 26 Aug 2015, at 20:04, Phil Davis wrote: >>>> >>>> Has anyone been able to make desktop stacks work with screen readers? I'm experimenting with the Mac's VoiceOver utility (included with OS X), and VO doesn't know how to interact with a stack - it identifies the window as "unknown" and doesn't allow you to interact with its elements/objects. >>>> >>>> Thanks for any tips or insights you can share any tips from your experience. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Phil Davis > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode -- Phil Davis From bonnmike at gmail.com Thu Aug 27 13:44:01 2015 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 11:44:01 -0600 Subject: wrapping external dlls Message-ID: Is it possible yet to use builder to wrap an external dll? If so, could someone point me at a hopefully simple example? Also, threading.. While I understand that in many cases multithreading can take some serious planning, But there are some instances where it would be great to just pop something free and let it run. For example, the clock widget. Its a clock. Since cpu time is shared, any intensive processing will keep it from updating. Other than running the clock in a separate instance, is there ANY way to keep it updating properly? (Other than wait 0 with messages, which adds overhead the whatever already intensive process is causing the interference) >From the first question.. If one were to wrap an external that does updating of time, would it still be subject to the whips of whatever cpu lc is currently running on? (at least for the visual updates on a stack) I'm a little excited about builder because i'm actually getting things to work now! And having error messages that are meaningful has helped too. (the "pink circle" example is actually pink now, syntax has been updated to avoid deprecated types, and I've added features that actually work! Yes. Adding features to a pink circle.) Previously, I couldn't get the "in 8 steps" example to work at all. From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Thu Aug 27 13:59:32 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 17:59:32 +0000 (UTC) Subject: LC 8 discovery kudos Message-ID: I had the following line for some reason in an existing stack: repeat while the mouse is up with messages and while this has worked in all previous incarnations of LiveCode, LC 8 threw an error into the message box about it. What I wanted was to allow system messages to happen while in a tight loop, but that wasn't the right way to do it. I changed it to repeat while the mouse is up wait 0 with messages and everything's fine. So it seems that the script compiler has gotten stricter about catching this kind of error (probably the 'with messages' thing was just getting ignored before) and helped find a nascent error in my code. Thanks to the engine team for tightening things up. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Aug 27 14:02:17 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 11:02:17 -0700 Subject: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55DF50A9.3070501@fourthworld.com> Kay C Lan wrote: > On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 9:03 AM, RunRevPlanet wrote: > >> None of my comments are from the perspective that enabling LiveCode >> to use an external editor is a bad thing. > > So we agree then. As Richard said, choice is a good thing. > >> More that for a cross platform IDE, written in it's supported >> language, to have an inadequate text editor is a very bad look > > Again, we agree. > >> and turns programmers away. > > Only if they don't have a choice to use something better. Choice is useful only so long as it's a choice, rather than a requirement. It would hardly be an INTEGRATED development environment if it didn't have a script editor. Moreover, a script editor is a very good example of the sort of thing LiveCode can do very well. And best of all, AFAIK no one in the company is thinking about shipping LC without a script editor. Given all this, making the current script editor robust and performant would logically seem among the highest priorities, since a good SE makes the product a joy to use and a poor SE makes LC look bad. In short, the choice is to either make more money or less, to the degree that the SE is solid and enjoyable. After all, it's the one part of the IDE everyone uses most often. Along the way, reinstating an updated version of MetaCard's support for external editors would be useful AS AN OPTION, and probably something the community could deliver. To make the latter work well we'll want formatting and colorization plugins for as many third party editors as we can make them for - again, best done by the community since each of us has our own favorite so each of us may be motivated to write a LiveCode add-on for it. This page at Ken Ray's site discusses how external editors can be used in LC, with links to various LC-specific modules (though some of these may need to be updated): -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Thu Aug 27 15:16:34 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 22:16:34 +0300 Subject: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card) In-Reply-To: <55DF50A9.3070501@fourthworld.com> References: <55DF50A9.3070501@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <55DF6212.4040705@gmail.com> On 08/27/2015 09:02 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Kay C Lan wrote: > > > On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 9:03 AM, RunRevPlanet wrote: > > > >> None of my comments are from the perspective that enabling LiveCode > >> to use an external editor is a bad thing. > > > > So we agree then. As Richard said, choice is a good thing. > > > >> More that for a cross platform IDE, written in it's supported > >> language, to have an inadequate text editor is a very bad look > > > > Again, we agree. > > > >> and turns programmers away. > > > > Only if they don't have a choice to use something better. > > Choice is useful only so long as it's a choice, rather than a > requirement. > > It would hardly be an INTEGRATED development environment if it didn't > have a script editor. > > Moreover, a script editor is a very good example of the sort of thing > LiveCode can do very well. > > And best of all, AFAIK no one in the company is thinking about > shipping LC without a script editor. > > Given all this, making the current script editor robust and performant > would logically seem among the highest priorities, since a good SE > makes the product a joy to use and a poor SE makes LC look bad. In > short, the choice is to either make more money or less, to the degree > that the SE is solid and enjoyable. After all, it's the one part of > the IDE everyone uses most often. > > Along the way, reinstating an updated version of MetaCard's support > for external editors would be useful AS AN OPTION, and probably > something the community could deliver. > > To make the latter work well we'll want formatting and colorization > plugins for as many third party editors as we can make them for - > again, best done by the community since each of us has our own > favorite so each of us may be motivated to write a LiveCode add-on for > it. > > This page at Ken Ray's site discusses how external editors can be used > in LC, with links to various LC-specific modules (though some of these > may need to be updated): > > Well: I've just downloaded the stsMLXEditor and placed it in the /livecodecommunity-7.0.6 (x86_64)/Plugins/ folder and it does not show up in /Development/Plugins in the 7.0.6 menu . . . Richmond. From peter.brett at livecode.com Thu Aug 27 15:33:30 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 20:33:30 +0100 Subject: Documentation [was: Re: v8 DP3] In-Reply-To: <55DEB872.6080901@gmail.com> References: <55DDD9F5.4040803@gmail.com> <55DDE73B.1040803@warrensweb.us> <55DE2F8C.4080405@gmail.com> <55DEB209.8040403@gmail.com> <1392CC08-70FC-4784-A05C-1A2AF4E1321B@techstrategies.com.au> <55DEB872.6080901@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1997ed2437174f2275501c52474b2b10@livecode.com> On 2015-08-27 08:12, Richmond wrote: > On 08/27/2015 09:59 AM, Charles Warwick wrote: >>> /I thought I'd just open up my text file using my //*external text >>> editor*//(at which point one // >>> // starts to wonder what the point of the Builder is)/ >>> >>> Both of those require questions, and at the risk of being a bore, >>> I'll reiterate them: >>> >>> 1. Why should there be recourse to an external text editor???? >>> >>> 2. What is the point of the Builder if one cannot type code into >>> it???? >>> >> LCB code needs to be ?compiled?, that is the purpose of the builder as >> per Peter?s comment: >> >> "The "Extension Builder" tool is used for compiling and packaging >> extensions." >> > > Aha. > > Well then the Documentation is awful as it makes none of these things > clear. Hi Richmond, The documentation is just as free and open source as the rest of the LiveCode IDE. You can find it in our git repository here: https://github.com/runrev/livecode-ide/tree/develop/Documentation/guides Since it's so desperately in need of improvement, and you have such a good idea of how it can be made better, perhaps you could help out? When you've already got a detailed knowledge of a topic, it's often very difficult to explain it in a way that's accessible to people who are new to it. Having "fresh eyes" is often enormously helpful in improving the quality and structure of introductory materials! Please let me know how I can help you get set up for using GitHub and making LiveCode better. There's a brief guide to our workflow here: https://github.com/runrev/livecode/blob/develop/HACKING.md#using-github (but this, too, could probably benefit with some fleshing-out). Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Engine Development Team LiveCode on reddit! From bonnmike at gmail.com Thu Aug 27 15:41:48 2015 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 13:41:48 -0600 Subject: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card) In-Reply-To: <55DF6212.4040705@gmail.com> References: <55DF50A9.3070501@fourthworld.com> <55DF6212.4040705@gmail.com> Message-ID: You did the obvious, and restarted LC after placing the plugin right? If you didn't restart lc, and you don't want to, an easy way to force a re-read of the plugins folder is to go into the plugin settings. You don't have to do anything, just going to the settings dialog forced the re-read. On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 1:16 PM, Richmond wrote: > On 08/27/2015 09:02 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > >> Kay C Lan wrote: >> >> > On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 9:03 AM, RunRevPlanet wrote: >> > >> >> None of my comments are from the perspective that enabling LiveCode >> >> to use an external editor is a bad thing. >> > >> > So we agree then. As Richard said, choice is a good thing. >> > >> >> More that for a cross platform IDE, written in it's supported >> >> language, to have an inadequate text editor is a very bad look >> > >> > Again, we agree. >> > >> >> and turns programmers away. >> > >> > Only if they don't have a choice to use something better. >> >> Choice is useful only so long as it's a choice, rather than a requirement. >> >> It would hardly be an INTEGRATED development environment if it didn't >> have a script editor. >> >> Moreover, a script editor is a very good example of the sort of thing >> LiveCode can do very well. >> >> And best of all, AFAIK no one in the company is thinking about shipping >> LC without a script editor. >> >> Given all this, making the current script editor robust and performant >> would logically seem among the highest priorities, since a good SE makes >> the product a joy to use and a poor SE makes LC look bad. In short, the >> choice is to either make more money or less, to the degree that the SE is >> solid and enjoyable. After all, it's the one part of the IDE everyone uses >> most often. >> >> Along the way, reinstating an updated version of MetaCard's support for >> external editors would be useful AS AN OPTION, and probably something the >> community could deliver. >> >> To make the latter work well we'll want formatting and colorization >> plugins for as many third party editors as we can make them for - again, >> best done by the community since each of us has our own favorite so each of >> us may be motivated to write a LiveCode add-on for it. >> >> This page at Ken Ray's site discusses how external editors can be used in >> LC, with links to various LC-specific modules (though some of these may >> need to be updated): >> >> >> > Well: I've just downloaded the stsMLXEditor and placed it in the > /livecodecommunity-7.0.6 (x86_64)/Plugins/ folder and it does > not show up in /Development/Plugins in the 7.0.6 menu . . . > > Richmond. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From pete at lcsql.com Thu Aug 27 15:59:59 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 19:59:59 +0000 Subject: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card) In-Reply-To: References: <55DF50A9.3070501@fourthworld.com> <55DF6212.4040705@gmail.com> Message-ID: I am having the same problem. The plugin doesn't load and it's not listed in the Plugins menu or in the Configure Plugins menu. This is with LC 6.6, and yes I did restart LC after installing it. I opened the plugin manually from the File Open menu and set it up to use the OSX Textmate editor. I haven't experienced the performance issues with the IDE script editor that others have mentioned but I see a lot of features in Textmate that I really like, code folding for example. It would of course be better if this was all built into the IDE script editor but this is a great substitute until that happens. On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 12:42 PM Mike Bonner wrote: > You did the obvious, and restarted LC after placing the plugin right? If > you didn't restart lc, and you don't want to, an easy way to force a > re-read of the plugins folder is to go into the plugin settings. You don't > have to do anything, just going to the settings dialog forced the re-read. > > > > On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 1:16 PM, Richmond > wrote: > > > On 08/27/2015 09:02 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > > >> Kay C Lan wrote: > >> > >> > On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 9:03 AM, RunRevPlanet wrote: > >> > > >> >> None of my comments are from the perspective that enabling LiveCode > >> >> to use an external editor is a bad thing. > >> > > >> > So we agree then. As Richard said, choice is a good thing. > >> > > >> >> More that for a cross platform IDE, written in it's supported > >> >> language, to have an inadequate text editor is a very bad look > >> > > >> > Again, we agree. > >> > > >> >> and turns programmers away. > >> > > >> > Only if they don't have a choice to use something better. > >> > >> Choice is useful only so long as it's a choice, rather than a > requirement. > >> > >> It would hardly be an INTEGRATED development environment if it didn't > >> have a script editor. > >> > >> Moreover, a script editor is a very good example of the sort of thing > >> LiveCode can do very well. > >> > >> And best of all, AFAIK no one in the company is thinking about shipping > >> LC without a script editor. > >> > >> Given all this, making the current script editor robust and performant > >> would logically seem among the highest priorities, since a good SE makes > >> the product a joy to use and a poor SE makes LC look bad. In short, the > >> choice is to either make more money or less, to the degree that the SE > is > >> solid and enjoyable. After all, it's the one part of the IDE everyone > uses > >> most often. > >> > >> Along the way, reinstating an updated version of MetaCard's support for > >> external editors would be useful AS AN OPTION, and probably something > the > >> community could deliver. > >> > >> To make the latter work well we'll want formatting and colorization > >> plugins for as many third party editors as we can make them for - again, > >> best done by the community since each of us has our own favorite so > each of > >> us may be motivated to write a LiveCode add-on for it. > >> > >> This page at Ken Ray's site discusses how external editors can be used > in > >> LC, with links to various LC-specific modules (though some of these may > >> need to be updated): > >> > > >> > >> > > Well: I've just downloaded the stsMLXEditor and placed it in the > > /livecodecommunity-7.0.6 (x86_64)/Plugins/ folder and it does > > not show up in /Development/Plugins in the 7.0.6 menu . . . > > > > Richmond. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Thu Aug 27 16:03:36 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 13:03:36 -0700 Subject: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55DF6D18.7090807@fourthworld.com> Peter Haworth wrote: > It would of course be better if this was all built into the IDE script > editor but this is a great substitute until that happens. "Better" is nice, but "now" can be even nicer. :) Plugins are not only easily shared, but also self-contained, so they make a great way to explore ways to extend the IDE without mucking with the IDE directly. Over time perhaps truly great plugins can find their way into the IDE. But for now we can explore all sorts of options, and with the confidence that whatever we make will survive updates to the IDE. -- Richard Gaskin LiveCode Community Manager richard at livecode.org From bonnmike at gmail.com Thu Aug 27 16:30:35 2015 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 14:30:35 -0600 Subject: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card) In-Reply-To: <55DF6D18.7090807@fourthworld.com> References: <55DF6D18.7090807@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: I got it to show up finally (7.0.6 on windows) I installed it in my personal plugins folder rather than the 7.0.6 plugins folder. On start of lc, still didn't show up, but went to plugin settings and set it to start when chosen from the plugins menu. Changed it from "invisible" to modeless. Restarted, set up wordpad as my editor (going to try to get it going with geany next) Changed it back to starting up when lc starts, and its working. On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 2:03 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Peter Haworth wrote: > > It would of course be better if this was all built into the IDE script > > editor but this is a great substitute until that happens. > > "Better" is nice, but "now" can be even nicer. :) > > Plugins are not only easily shared, but also self-contained, so they make > a great way to explore ways to extend the IDE without mucking with the IDE > directly. > > Over time perhaps truly great plugins can find their way into the IDE. But > for now we can explore all sorts of options, and with the confidence that > whatever we make will survive updates to the IDE. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > LiveCode Community Manager > richard at livecode.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From peter.brett at livecode.com Thu Aug 27 16:32:35 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 21:32:35 +0100 Subject: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card) In-Reply-To: References: <55DF6D18.7090807@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On 2015-08-27 21:30, Mike Bonner wrote: > I got it to show up finally (7.0.6 on windows) > I installed it in my personal plugins folder rather than the 7.0.6 > plugins > folder. On start of lc, still didn't show up, but went to plugin > settings > and set it to start when chosen from the plugins menu. Changed it from > "invisible" to modeless. > Restarted, set up wordpad as my editor (going to try to get it going > with > geany next) > Changed it back to starting up when lc starts, and its working. By the way -- recent releases of the Atom package for LiveCode support "traditional" LiveCode scripts as well. Try it out! Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Engine Development Team LiveCode on reddit! From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Thu Aug 27 16:39:31 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 15:39:31 -0500 Subject: Documentation [was: Re: v8 DP3] In-Reply-To: <1997ed2437174f2275501c52474b2b10@livecode.com> References: <55DDD9F5.4040803@gmail.com> <55DDE73B.1040803@warrensweb.us> <55DE2F8C.4080405@gmail.com> <55DEB209.8040403@gmail.com> <1392CC08-70FC-4784-A05C-1A2AF4E1321B@techstrategies.com.au> <55DEB872.6080901@gmail.com> <1997ed2437174f2275501c52474b2b10@livecode.com> Message-ID: <55DF7583.1010101@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/27/2015 2:33 PM, Peter TB Brett wrote: > Since it's so desperately in need of improvement, and you have such a > good idea of how it can be made better, perhaps you could help out? I love UK understatement. As one of those rude Americans I would have said, "Okay Richmond, put your money where your mouth is," or maybe, "put up or shut up." We're such an...assertive...culture. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From pete at lcsql.com Thu Aug 27 17:09:09 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 21:09:09 +0000 Subject: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card) In-Reply-To: References: <55DF6D18.7090807@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: It's showing up for me now, It's in my personal plugins folder but still doesn't show up in the Development Plugins list or the Plugin Settings list, maybe because the stack name begins with "rev"? It's hard to locate stuff in the plugin settings list since they don't seem to be in any particular order, certainly not alphabetic as they are in the Plugins list itself. LC 6.6, OSX On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 1:30 PM Mike Bonner wrote: > I got it to show up finally (7.0.6 on windows) > I installed it in my personal plugins folder rather than the 7.0.6 plugins > folder. On start of lc, still didn't show up, but went to plugin settings > and set it to start when chosen from the plugins menu. Changed it from > "invisible" to modeless. > Restarted, set up wordpad as my editor (going to try to get it going with > geany next) > Changed it back to starting up when lc starts, and its working. > > > > On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 2:03 PM, Richard Gaskin < > ambassador at fourthworld.com> > wrote: > > > Peter Haworth wrote: > > > It would of course be better if this was all built into the IDE script > > > editor but this is a great substitute until that happens. > > > > "Better" is nice, but "now" can be even nicer. :) > > > > Plugins are not only easily shared, but also self-contained, so they make > > a great way to explore ways to extend the IDE without mucking with the > IDE > > directly. > > > > Over time perhaps truly great plugins can find their way into the IDE. > But > > for now we can explore all sorts of options, and with the confidence that > > whatever we make will survive updates to the IDE. > > > > -- > > Richard Gaskin > > LiveCode Community Manager > > richard at livecode.org > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From brahma at hindu.org Fri Aug 28 00:22:00 2015 From: brahma at hindu.org (Brahmanathaswami) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 18:22:00 -1000 Subject: Button Names on top of their icon? Message-ID: <55DFE1E8.9020807@hindu.org> Is there some way to get a button name to be centered on top of it's icon? This is a context where the icon is designed to be a background for the button and the center area is clear, plain, flat colored and meant to take the button label. Of course can import the image and put a transparent button on top, but ideally we could center the button name on top of the icon itself... but I can't find a way to do that... is there a way? BR From scott at tactilemedia.com Fri Aug 28 00:24:45 2015 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 21:24:45 -0700 Subject: Button Names on top of their icon? In-Reply-To: <55DFE1E8.9020807@hindu.org> References: <55DFE1E8.9020807@hindu.org> Message-ID: If you're using LC7, you should take a look at the iconGravity property. Dumb name (why not iconAlign?) but I think it should do what you're looking for. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design On 8/27/15, 9:22 PM, "Brahmanathaswami" wrote: >Is there some way to get a button name to be centered on top of it's icon? > > >This is a context where the icon is designed to be a background for the >button and the center area is clear, plain, flat colored and meant to >take the button label. Of course can import the image and put a >transparent button on top, but ideally we could center the button name >on top of the icon itself... but I can't find a way to do that... is >there a way? > >BR > >_______________________________________________ >use-livecode mailing list >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From paul at livecode.org Fri Aug 28 00:58:10 2015 From: paul at livecode.org (Paul Hibbert) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2015 21:58:10 -0700 Subject: Button Names on top of their icon? In-Reply-To: <55DFE1E8.9020807@hindu.org> References: <55DFE1E8.9020807@hindu.org> Message-ID: <60B69EBE-C3FC-4576-91A6-8500B5BCDA56@livecode.org> If the image is the correct size for the button, you can assign it to the backgroundPattern (fill) instead of the icon. Paul > On Aug 27, 2015, at 21:22, Brahmanathaswami wrote: > > Is there some way to get a button name to be centered on top of it's icon? > > > This is a context where the icon is designed to be a background for the button and the center area is clear, plain, flat colored and meant to take the button label. Of course can import the image and put a transparent button on top, but ideally we could center the button name on top of the icon itself... but I can't find a way to do that... is there a way? > > BR > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Fri Aug 28 02:17:38 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 09:17:38 +0300 Subject: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card) In-Reply-To: References: <55DF50A9.3070501@fourthworld.com> <55DF6212.4040705@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55DFFD02.70807@gmail.com> On 08/27/2015 10:41 PM, Mike Bonner wrote: > You did the obvious, and restarted LC after placing the plugin right? If > you didn't restart lc, and you don't want to, an easy way to force a > re-read of the plugins folder is to go into the plugin settings. You don't > have to do anything, just going to the settings dialog forced the re-read. I looked in the settings dialogue as you suggested, and there it is, but it still does not up in the Plugins menu; instead it loads as a small palette. Thanks. Richmond. > > > > On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 1:16 PM, Richmond > wrote: > >> On 08/27/2015 09:02 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: >> >>> Kay C Lan wrote: >>> >>>> On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 9:03 AM, RunRevPlanet wrote: >>>> >>>>> None of my comments are from the perspective that enabling LiveCode >>>>> to use an external editor is a bad thing. >>>> So we agree then. As Richard said, choice is a good thing. >>>> >>>>> More that for a cross platform IDE, written in it's supported >>>>> language, to have an inadequate text editor is a very bad look >>>> Again, we agree. >>>> >>>>> and turns programmers away. >>>> Only if they don't have a choice to use something better. >>> Choice is useful only so long as it's a choice, rather than a requirement. >>> >>> It would hardly be an INTEGRATED development environment if it didn't >>> have a script editor. >>> >>> Moreover, a script editor is a very good example of the sort of thing >>> LiveCode can do very well. >>> >>> And best of all, AFAIK no one in the company is thinking about shipping >>> LC without a script editor. >>> >>> Given all this, making the current script editor robust and performant >>> would logically seem among the highest priorities, since a good SE makes >>> the product a joy to use and a poor SE makes LC look bad. In short, the >>> choice is to either make more money or less, to the degree that the SE is >>> solid and enjoyable. After all, it's the one part of the IDE everyone uses >>> most often. >>> >>> Along the way, reinstating an updated version of MetaCard's support for >>> external editors would be useful AS AN OPTION, and probably something the >>> community could deliver. >>> >>> To make the latter work well we'll want formatting and colorization >>> plugins for as many third party editors as we can make them for - again, >>> best done by the community since each of us has our own favorite so each of >>> us may be motivated to write a LiveCode add-on for it. >>> >>> This page at Ken Ray's site discusses how external editors can be used in >>> LC, with links to various LC-specific modules (though some of these may >>> need to be updated): >>> >>> >>> >> Well: I've just downloaded the stsMLXEditor and placed it in the >> /livecodecommunity-7.0.6 (x86_64)/Plugins/ folder and it does >> not show up in /Development/Plugins in the 7.0.6 menu . . . >> >> Richmond. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Fri Aug 28 02:20:02 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 09:20:02 +0300 Subject: Documentation [was: Re: v8 DP3] In-Reply-To: <55DF7583.1010101@hyperactivesw.com> References: <55DDD9F5.4040803@gmail.com> <55DDE73B.1040803@warrensweb.us> <55DE2F8C.4080405@gmail.com> <55DEB209.8040403@gmail.com> <1392CC08-70FC-4784-A05C-1A2AF4E1321B@techstrategies.com.au> <55DEB872.6080901@gmail.com> <1997ed2437174f2275501c52474b2b10@livecode.com> <55DF7583.1010101@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <55DFFD92.7060507@gmail.com> On 08/27/2015 11:39 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > On 8/27/2015 2:33 PM, Peter TB Brett wrote: >> Since it's so desperately in need of improvement, and you have such a >> good idea of how it can be made better, perhaps you could help out? > > I love UK understatement. As one of those rude Americans I would have > said, "Okay Richmond, put your money where your mouth is," or maybe, > "put up or shut up." > > We're such an...assertive...culture. > Indeed you are! But I'm also an assertive sort of chap, so I will say: Yes! I will edit those bits that I feel are lacking, and work on the assumption that others will be doing the same! Richmond. From peter.brett at livecode.com Fri Aug 28 02:27:46 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 08:27:46 +0200 Subject: Documentation [was: Re: v8 DP3] In-Reply-To: <55DFFD92.7060507@gmail.com> References: <55DDD9F5.4040803@gmail.com> <55DDE73B.1040803@warrensweb.us> <55DE2F8C.4080405@gmail.com> <55DEB209.8040403@gmail.com> <1392CC08-70FC-4784-A05C-1A2AF4E1321B@techstrategies.com.au> <55DEB872.6080901@gmail.com> <1997ed2437174f2275501c52474b2b10@livecode.com> <55DF7583.1010101@hyperactivesw.com> <55DFFD92.7060507@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 2015-08-28 08:20, Richmond wrote: > On 08/27/2015 11:39 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: >> On 8/27/2015 2:33 PM, Peter TB Brett wrote: >>> Since it's so desperately in need of improvement, and you have such a >>> good idea of how it can be made better, perhaps you could help out? >> >> I love UK understatement. As one of those rude Americans I would have >> said, "Okay Richmond, put your money where your mouth is," or maybe, >> "put up or shut up." >> >> We're such an...assertive...culture. >> > > Indeed you are! But I'm also an assertive sort of chap, so I will say: > > Yes! I will edit those bits that I feel are lacking, and work on the > assumption that others will be > doing the same! Awesome. Community contributions to the open source package are always really welcome. I'll do what I can to work with you and ensure that documentation changes get incorporated quickly and efficiently. Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Engine Development Team LiveCode on reddit! From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Fri Aug 28 03:15:16 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 10:15:16 +0300 Subject: Documentation [was: Re: v8 DP3] In-Reply-To: References: <55DDD9F5.4040803@gmail.com> <55DDE73B.1040803@warrensweb.us> <55DE2F8C.4080405@gmail.com> <55DEB209.8040403@gmail.com> <1392CC08-70FC-4784-A05C-1A2AF4E1321B@techstrategies.com.au> <55DEB872.6080901@gmail.com> <1997ed2437174f2275501c52474b2b10@livecode.com> <55DF7583.1010101@hyperactivesw.com> <55DFFD92.7060507@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55E00A84.1090300@gmail.com> On 08/28/2015 09:27 AM, Peter TB Brett wrote: > On 2015-08-28 08:20, Richmond wrote: >> On 08/27/2015 11:39 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: >>> On 8/27/2015 2:33 PM, Peter TB Brett wrote: >>>> Since it's so desperately in need of improvement, and you have such a >>>> good idea of how it can be made better, perhaps you could help out? >>> >>> I love UK understatement. As one of those rude Americans I would >>> have said, "Okay Richmond, put your money where your mouth is," or >>> maybe, "put up or shut up." >>> >>> We're such an...assertive...culture. >>> >> >> Indeed you are! But I'm also an assertive sort of chap, so I will say: >> >> Yes! I will edit those bits that I feel are lacking, and work on the >> assumption that others will be >> doing the same! > > Awesome. Community contributions to the open source package are > always really welcome. > > I'll do what I can to work with you and ensure that documentation > changes get incorporated quickly and efficiently. > > Peter > Well: as an almost complete moron in certain respects, I would be grateful if you could outline a way to edit the documents at https://github.com/runrev/livecode-ide/tree/develop/Documentation/guides and submit them after the editing . . . does this involve setting up my own github branch???? Richmond. From peterwawood at gmail.com Fri Aug 28 03:28:26 2015 From: peterwawood at gmail.com (Peter W A Wood) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 15:28:26 +0800 Subject: Documentation [was: Re: v8 DP3] In-Reply-To: <55E00A84.1090300@gmail.com> References: <55DDD9F5.4040803@gmail.com> <55DDE73B.1040803@warrensweb.us> <55DE2F8C.4080405@gmail.com> <55DEB209.8040403@gmail.com> <1392CC08-70FC-4784-A05C-1A2AF4E1321B@techstrategies.com.au> <55DEB872.6080901@gmail.com> <1997ed2437174f2275501c52474b2b10@livecode.com> <55DF7583.1010101@hyperactivesw.com> <55DFFD92.7060507@gmail.com> <55E00A84.1090300@gmail.com> Message-ID: > On 28 Aug 2015, at 15:15, Richmond wrote: > > Well: as an almost complete newcomer to Github, I would be grateful if you could outline a way to edit > the documents at https://github.com/runrev/livecode-ide/tree/develop/Documentation/guides and submit them after > the editing . . . does this involve setting up my own github branch???? Yes. You will need a Github account and then fork the Github repository. You can then edit the documents on-line. Once you have finished editing the documents, you will need to create a Pull Request. The LiveCode team will then decide whether to accept or decline your changes. One thing that is needed for your changes to be accepted is to for you to enter into a contributor?s agreement http://livecode.com/account/developer/contribute You can make better use of Git by downloading the repository onto your own machine. I was able to do that quite easily by following this https://help.github.com/categories/bootcamp/ I have no doubt that you will breeze though the process. Peter From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Fri Aug 28 04:17:43 2015 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 16:17:43 +0800 Subject: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card) In-Reply-To: <1440661743.55dec0ef7a0a7@www.server101.com> References: <1440661743.55dec0ef7a0a7@www.server101.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 3:49 PM, RunRevPlanet wrote: > > One of the promoted strengths of LiveCode is that it is "live coding". In > other > words I can make a change in my script and immediately see the effect. > > Now while I understand the virtues of using the external text editor of > your > choice. With your example of XCode and an external editor, is it possible > to set > breakpoints and single step through the code in your preferred external > editor? > Well yes and no. As has already been pointed out, because of the long standing undercurrent that people have longed for a SE with better text manipulation capabilities, several attempts have been made by individuals to achieve that. I've used Ken's stsMLXEditor a long time ago and it allowed me to use my favourite text editor which allowed me to place breakpoints anywhere I wanted. Like GLX2, which I like very much, they both handed back debugging to Rev/LC. I have no problem with that - Text Editor for text manipulation, debugger for debugging. The problem though, was that stsMLXEditor was a bit of a patch job which needed a better mechanism to track the changes and transfer those back and forth - that improvement can only be done from the mothership. GLX2 used an improved mechanism but only bought a handful of improved Text Editing tools to the table - better than the inbuilt SE but no match for my favourite. What both of these proved is that it is possible. I don't use Atom but from some recent posting it appears that some kind of LC/Atom connection has been made. I wonder if that may have been driven by the amount of time the LC Team spend at Github and Atom is the Github team developed Text Editor? Guess I better check it out. And just to be clear, I've never suggested that LC should not have an SE, it most definitely must, and as Richmond has suggested it's lack of bloat is probably ideal for the new to programming or hobbyist level programmer. My comments have only suggested the ability to use an external TE would be a worthwhile enhancement as it would mean 'professional' programmers might feel a little more comfortable and be a little more productive using tools they are already familiar with. From peter.brett at livecode.com Fri Aug 28 04:53:07 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 09:53:07 +0100 Subject: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card) In-Reply-To: References: <1440661743.55dec0ef7a0a7@www.server101.com> Message-ID: <55E02173.8040602@livecode.com> On 28/08/2015 09:17, Kay C Lan wrote: > I don't use Atom but from some recent posting it appears that some kind of > LC/Atom connection has been made. I wonder if that may have been driven by > the amount of time the LC Team spend at Github and Atom is the Github team > developed Text Editor? Guess I better check it out. I'm afraid the story isn't that exciting... I was bored one evening (in my "spare" time) and decided to explore adding new syntax highlighting rules to Atom. Then the LCB package sort of happened, then people started using it. I use Emacs as my primary editor. Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Engine Development Team LiveCode on reddit: https://reddit.com/r/livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Fri Aug 28 05:11:38 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 12:11:38 +0300 Subject: Documentation [was: Re: v8 DP3] In-Reply-To: References: <55DDD9F5.4040803@gmail.com> <55DDE73B.1040803@warrensweb.us> <55DE2F8C.4080405@gmail.com> <55DEB209.8040403@gmail.com> <1392CC08-70FC-4784-A05C-1A2AF4E1321B@techstrategies.com.au> <55DEB872.6080901@gmail.com> <1997ed2437174f2275501c52474b2b10@livecode.com> <55DF7583.1010101@hyperactivesw.com> <55DFFD92.7060507@gmail.com> <55E00A84.1090300@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55E025CA.1000804@gmail.com> On 08/28/2015 10:28 AM, Peter W A Wood wrote: >> On 28 Aug 2015, at 15:15, Richmond wrote: >> >> Well: as an almost complete newcomer to Github, I would be grateful if you could outline a way to edit >> the documents at https://github.com/runrev/livecode-ide/tree/develop/Documentation/guides and submit them after >> the editing . . . does this involve setting up my own github branch???? > Yes. You will need a Github account and then fork the Github repository. You can then edit the documents on-line. Once you have finished editing the documents, you will need to create a Pull Request. The LiveCode team will then decide whether to accept or decline your changes. > > One thing that is needed for your changes to be accepted is to for you to enter into a contributor?s agreement http://livecode.com/account/developer/contribute > > You can make better use of Git by downloading the repository onto your own machine. I was able to do that quite easily by following this https://help.github.com/categories/bootcamp/ > > I have no doubt that you will breeze though the process. I very much doubt it: I downloaded GIT, told GIT my name ('richmond'), told GIT my email ('richmondmathewson at gmail.com'), and then got stuck: https://help.github.com/articles/set-up-git/#next-steps-authenticating-with-github-from-git so; where is GIT" Richmond. > > Peter > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From peter.brett at livecode.com Fri Aug 28 05:21:10 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 10:21:10 +0100 Subject: Documentation [was: Re: v8 DP3] In-Reply-To: <55E025CA.1000804@gmail.com> References: <55DDD9F5.4040803@gmail.com> <55DDE73B.1040803@warrensweb.us> <55DE2F8C.4080405@gmail.com> <55DEB209.8040403@gmail.com> <1392CC08-70FC-4784-A05C-1A2AF4E1321B@techstrategies.com.au> <55DEB872.6080901@gmail.com> <1997ed2437174f2275501c52474b2b10@livecode.com> <55DF7583.1010101@hyperactivesw.com> <55DFFD92.7060507@gmail.com> <55E00A84.1090300@gmail.com> <55E025CA.1000804@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55E02806.7060602@livecode.com> On 28/08/2015 10:11, Richmond wrote: > On 08/28/2015 10:28 AM, Peter W A Wood wrote: >> >> You can make better use of Git by downloading the repository onto your >> own machine. I was able to do that quite easily by following this >> https://help.github.com/categories/bootcamp/ >> >> >> I have no doubt that you will breeze though the process. > > I very much doubt it: I downloaded GIT, > > told GIT my name ('richmond'), > > told GIT my email ('richmondmathewson at gmail.com'), > > and then got stuck: > > https://help.github.com/articles/set-up-git/#next-steps-authenticating-with-github-from-git > > > so; where is GIT" Exactly which step are you stuck on? Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Engine Development Team LiveCode on reddit: https://reddit.com/r/livecode From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Fri Aug 28 05:28:26 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 12:28:26 +0300 Subject: Documentation [was: Re: v8 DP3] In-Reply-To: <55E02806.7060602@livecode.com> References: <55DDD9F5.4040803@gmail.com> <55DDE73B.1040803@warrensweb.us> <55DE2F8C.4080405@gmail.com> <55DEB209.8040403@gmail.com> <1392CC08-70FC-4784-A05C-1A2AF4E1321B@techstrategies.com.au> <55DEB872.6080901@gmail.com> <1997ed2437174f2275501c52474b2b10@livecode.com> <55DF7583.1010101@hyperactivesw.com> <55DFFD92.7060507@gmail.com> <55E00A84.1090300@gmail.com> <55E025CA.1000804@gmail.com> <55E02806.7060602@livecode.com> Message-ID: <55E029BA.7050605@gmail.com> On 08/28/2015 12:21 PM, Peter TB Brett wrote: > > > On 28/08/2015 10:11, Richmond wrote: >> On 08/28/2015 10:28 AM, Peter W A Wood wrote: >>> >>> You can make better use of Git by downloading the repository onto your >>> own machine. I was able to do that quite easily by following this >>> https://help.github.com/categories/bootcamp/ >>> >>> >>> I have no doubt that you will breeze though the process. >> >> I very much doubt it: I downloaded GIT, >> >> told GIT my name ('richmond'), >> >> told GIT my email ('richmondmathewson at gmail.com'), >> >> and then got stuck: >> >> https://help.github.com/articles/set-up-git/#next-steps-authenticating-with-github-from-git >> >> >> >> so; where is GIT" > > Exactly which step are you stuck on? > > Peter > https://help.github.com/articles/which-remote-url-should-i-use/#cloning-with-https-recommended "When you view a repository while signed in to your account First of all, where do I find the GIT interface on my computer so that I can log into it, or, for the sake of argument, how can I log into the GitHub using Atom (which I installed just before breakfast), clone stuff and get to work? Richmond. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Fri Aug 28 05:32:52 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 12:32:52 +0300 Subject: Documentation [was: Re: v8 DP3] In-Reply-To: <55E029BA.7050605@gmail.com> References: <55DDD9F5.4040803@gmail.com> <55DDE73B.1040803@warrensweb.us> <55DE2F8C.4080405@gmail.com> <55DEB209.8040403@gmail.com> <1392CC08-70FC-4784-A05C-1A2AF4E1321B@techstrategies.com.au> <55DEB872.6080901@gmail.com> <1997ed2437174f2275501c52474b2b10@livecode.com> <55DF7583.1010101@hyperactivesw.com> <55DFFD92.7060507@gmail.com> <55E00A84.1090300@gmail.com> <55E025CA.1000804@gmail.com> <55E02806.7060602@livecode.com> <55E029BA.7050605@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55E02AC4.6080307@gmail.com> On 08/28/2015 12:28 PM, Richmond wrote: > On 08/28/2015 12:21 PM, Peter TB Brett wrote: >> >> >> On 28/08/2015 10:11, Richmond wrote: >>> On 08/28/2015 10:28 AM, Peter W A Wood wrote: >>>> >>>> You can make better use of Git by downloading the repository onto your >>>> own machine. I was able to do that quite easily by following this >>>> https://help.github.com/categories/bootcamp/ >>>> >>>> >>>> I have no doubt that you will breeze though the process. >>> >>> I very much doubt it: I downloaded GIT, >>> >>> told GIT my name ('richmond'), >>> >>> told GIT my email ('richmondmathewson at gmail.com'), >>> >>> and then got stuck: >>> >>> https://help.github.com/articles/set-up-git/#next-steps-authenticating-with-github-from-git >>> >>> >>> >>> so; where is GIT" >> >> Exactly which step are you stuck on? >> >> Peter >> > https://help.github.com/articles/which-remote-url-should-i-use/#cloning-with-https-recommended > > > "When you view a repository while signed in to your account > > First of all, where do I find the GIT interface on my computer so that > I can log into it, or, > > for the sake of argument, how can I log into the GitHub using Atom > (which I installed just before breakfast), > clone stuff and get to work? > > Richmond. Or, put another way; will Atom work as a Git GUI? I am downloading a selection of Linux Git GUIs which all look far more primitive than Atom . . . From peter.brett at livecode.com Fri Aug 28 05:33:48 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 10:33:48 +0100 Subject: Documentation [was: Re: v8 DP3] In-Reply-To: <55E029BA.7050605@gmail.com> References: <55DDD9F5.4040803@gmail.com> <55DDE73B.1040803@warrensweb.us> <55DE2F8C.4080405@gmail.com> <55DEB209.8040403@gmail.com> <1392CC08-70FC-4784-A05C-1A2AF4E1321B@techstrategies.com.au> <55DEB872.6080901@gmail.com> <1997ed2437174f2275501c52474b2b10@livecode.com> <55DF7583.1010101@hyperactivesw.com> <55DFFD92.7060507@gmail.com> <55E00A84.1090300@gmail.com> <55E025CA.1000804@gmail.com> <55E02806.7060602@livecode.com> <55E029BA.7050605@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55E02AFC.8060607@livecode.com> On 28/08/2015 10:28, Richmond wrote: > On 08/28/2015 12:21 PM, Peter TB Brett wrote: >> >> >> On 28/08/2015 10:11, Richmond wrote: >>> On 08/28/2015 10:28 AM, Peter W A Wood wrote: >>>> >>>> You can make better use of Git by downloading the repository onto your >>>> own machine. I was able to do that quite easily by following this >>>> https://help.github.com/categories/bootcamp/ >>>> >>>> >>>> I have no doubt that you will breeze though the process. >>> >>> I very much doubt it: I downloaded GIT, >>> >>> told GIT my name ('richmond'), >>> >>> told GIT my email ('richmondmathewson at gmail.com'), >>> >>> and then got stuck: >>> >>> https://help.github.com/articles/set-up-git/#next-steps-authenticating-with-github-from-git >>> >>> >>> >>> so; where is GIT" >> >> Exactly which step are you stuck on? >> >> Peter >> > https://help.github.com/articles/which-remote-url-should-i-use/#cloning-with-https-recommended > > > "When you view a repository while signed in to your account > > First of all, where do I find the GIT interface on my computer so that I > can log into it, or, If you're using Windows or OS X, I recommend installing the Github Desktop client. It'll provide a log-in window and set up all the necessary keys and credentials for you. https://desktop.github.com/ It also provides a friendly user-interface so that you don't have to learn the git command-line interface (with which you are struggling, from the sound of it). > for the sake of argument, how can I log into the GitHub using Atom > (which I installed just before breakfast), > clone stuff and get to work? You don't need to do any log-in with Atom. Like most editors, Atom is completely passive from the git point of view -- it'll display the status of the code, but doesn't talk to the server or anything like that. Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Engine Development Team LiveCode on reddit: https://reddit.com/r/livecode From jbv at souslelogo.com Fri Aug 28 05:34:06 2015 From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 12:34:06 +0300 Subject: A question about differences in performance between Mac and Windows Message-ID: Hi list I have a standalone used as a frontal for requests to a DB. The results are compressed and base64encoded by a LC script on the server, and the standalone displays them in a table field after base64decode and decompress. On Mac, the process takes 0.25 second to 1 second (when the amount of data is important). On Windows 7, it takes at least 3 to 4 secs, no matter how much data. Is there any rational explanation for that, and possibly a way to speed up things on Windows ? My guess is that some system librairies are called for base64decode and decompress, which are significantly slower on Windows... Thanks jbv From alanstenhouse at hotmail.com Fri Aug 28 06:06:08 2015 From: alanstenhouse at hotmail.com (Alan Stenhouse) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 12:06:08 +0200 Subject: iOS scrolling groups problem? Message-ID: I have a problem with an iOS scroller on a group. It seems to somehow make the app non-reactive (locked up) after some resizeStack messages where I change the layout from portrait to landscape. I *suspect* that it may be when setting the vScroll of the group - but not totally sure and so far have not been able to track it down. Has anyone else noticed something similar? Am using LC 6.7.6. Debugging mobile is still really a pain at times... cheers Alan From dixonja at hotmail.co.uk Fri Aug 28 06:19:27 2015 From: dixonja at hotmail.co.uk (John Dixon) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 11:19:27 +0100 Subject: iOS scrolling groups problem? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Would you post your resizeStack script > From: alanstenhouse at hotmail.com > Subject: iOS scrolling groups problem? > Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 12:06:08 +0200 > To: use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > I have a problem with an iOS scroller on a group. > > It seems to somehow make the app non-reactive (locked up) after some resizeStack messages where I change the layout from portrait to landscape. > > I *suspect* that it may be when setting the vScroll of the group - but not totally sure and so far have not been able to track it down. > > Has anyone else noticed something similar? > > Am using LC 6.7.6. From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Fri Aug 28 06:30:11 2015 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 18:30:11 +0800 Subject: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card) In-Reply-To: <55DECEA0.7080609@gmail.com> References: <1440661743.55dec0ef7a0a7@www.server101.com> <55DECEA0.7080609@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 4:47 PM, Richmond wrote: I would be most interested to see a *coherent and numbered list* of these > "issues" > rather than a chorus of people saying how awful the scriptEditor is. > Off the top of my head: 1) copy & paste via keyboard How many times have you copied from somewhere external and you can't use the keyboard to paste it into LC. Either you need to use the mouse+menu or the data isn't even there - in which case I find myself pasting the data into a text editor, copying it again and then pasting into LC. (this is more a long standing bug of LC and not just the SE) 2) customiseable keyboard shortcuts It's just nice and convenient to be able to allocate ANY of EVERY single menu item a keyboard shortcut. Time saver. 3) more script space, less wasted space Because the SE doubles as the debugger it has a LOT of wasted space. I want my SE to be 90% text, the rest tools and nicities, like my TE. I want my debugger sort of the opposite, 40% script and the rest debugging info - typically I can't see enough variable values. As someone else pointed out, why can't I view Variables and breakpoints concurently when debugging? Why does the Error message need as much space as the Variable viewer? I've never seen one that's taken up more than two lines, and even then it could all be displayed on one line. Effecient workspace. 4) autocompletion The flexibility of not using explicit variables with the safety net of spelling them correctly all the time. Time saver. 5) spellchecking Can load custom dictionaries so whilst mine generally checks I spell colour correctly, for LC work I can make sure I spell it the other way. Time saver. 6) boilerplates I can type in switch and a little popup will come up with switch3, switch3d, switch4, switch4d,... switch9, switch9d. I can either click on one or type switch5d and press return and a bare switch statement with 5 case entries will be created for me including the default structure. If I didn't specify the d at the end, no default structure is included. Actually 99% of the time I use the switch default structure as a place to catch logic errors so my boiler place includes: default answer "A Case I Haven't Considered. Check the Variables." titled "Switch Case Error" breakpoint end switch All typed out for me automatically. Time Saver 7) Inbuilt scripting Strange that for a scripting language this is listed. Take this SQL statement: SELECT * FROM table WHERE f1 = "AA" AND f2 = "BB" AND f3 = "DD" if I need to do this: put "SELECT * FROM table WHERE f1 = "AA" AND f2 = "BB" AND f3 = "DD"" into tQuery it will not work because of the quotes in SQL have a different meaning to LC so I need to replace all those " with " & quote & " - except the first and last ". Yes, I appreciate I could do it manually with Find and Replace but that's slow, or I can modify LC to allow me to run a script to do that selective replacement similar to what I do in my TE, but I'm just surprised at how much easier it is to do im my TE and just a keystroke a way. Time saver. 8) folding The ability to collapse a handler, control structure, multiline comments down to a single line - an absolute godsend. Again I want the text I'm interested in to cover 90% or more of my screen. So many times, portions of what I'm focusing on are spread over just more than what is displayed in the SE - why is that? Copy and paste into my TE and most of the time I'm sweet, but often enough I wish I was able to collapse a 5 case switch statments down to a single line and remove the 4 line comment because then what I need to be looking at would all be viewable. Can be done with other languages. You wont appreciate it until you've used it. 9) bracket pairing How many times has your code been in error because of a mismatch in brackets? Every TE worth it's salt provides some sort of indication of bracket pairing, not just whilst you type the brackets, but also you can come back and click on a bracket and it's mate will be hilighted. Also, an unmatched bracket is highlited immediately, not when you go to Apply/Save. Time saver. 10) search and replace remembered The last 10 searches and replacements are stored, although I think that's only because I set it to 10. As most of my search and replace are regex, and I'm NOT very good at it, having these saved is extremely convenient. Nice feature. 11) regex search pattern validation Any serious work with text will at some time require a bit of regex. Whilst building regex search and replace patterns my TE automatically validates the code. To be fair, LC has a built in Regex Builder so you can test your regex prior to use, but this isn't quite as nice as having it automatically check your Find or Replace box entry. Nice feature 12) regex manual Because I don't do too much regex, unless it's very basic I always need to refer to a syntax manual. My TE has one built in. Nice feature 13) unlimited undo/redo Enough said. Time Saver. 14) versioning Happens automatically locally. Can easily intergrate with Git or SVN systems. Essential for serious work. 15) difference comparison Once you've gone down the versioning, Git, SVN route you HAVE to be able to easily find differences and move chunks of text from one version to another. Essential for serious work. Again, that's only off the top of my head. From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Fri Aug 28 06:34:14 2015 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 18:34:14 +0800 Subject: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card) In-Reply-To: <55E02173.8040602@livecode.com> References: <1440661743.55dec0ef7a0a7@www.server101.com> <55E02173.8040602@livecode.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 4:53 PM, Peter TB Brett wrote: I was bored one evening (in my "spare" time) and decided to explore adding > new syntax highlighting rules to Atom. > Now wonder the story isn't more exciting. You really need to get out more ;-) From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Fri Aug 28 06:51:16 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 13:51:16 +0300 Subject: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card) In-Reply-To: References: <1440661743.55dec0ef7a0a7@www.server101.com> <55DECEA0.7080609@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55E03D24.2010004@gmail.com> On 08/28/2015 01:30 PM, Kay C Lan wrote: > On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 4:47 PM, Richmond > wrote: > > > I would be most interested to see a *coherent and numbered list* of these >> "issues" >> rather than a chorus of people saying how awful the scriptEditor is. >> > Off the top of my head: > > 1) copy & paste via keyboard > How many times have you copied from somewhere external and you can't > use the keyboard to paste it into LC. Either you need to use the mouse+menu > or the data isn't even there - in which case I find myself pasting the data > into a text editor, copying it again and then pasting into LC. (this is > more a long standing bug of LC and not just the SE) Something very odd indeed on the Linux side: I can not copy script directly into an office suite or the ThunderBird e-mail client (which I would like to be able to do):I have to copy-paste into a bog-basic text editor, and then copy-paste from the text editor into whatever, losing all the contextual colouring along the way. My point of comparison is with LC 4.5 on a PPC Mac running 10.5.7, where I can copy-paste back-and-forth to my heart's content into Appleworks 6 or Clarisworks 5 keeping colourisation. > > 2) customiseable keyboard shortcuts > It's just nice and convenient to be able to allocate ANY of EVERY > single menu item a keyboard shortcut. Time saver. Not sure if that is the scriptEditor as such, or the IDE in general. > > 3) more script space, less wasted space > Because the SE doubles as the debugger it has a LOT of wasted space. I > want my SE to be 90% text, the rest tools and nicities, like my TE. I want > my debugger sort of the opposite, 40% script and the rest debugging info - > typically I can't see enough variable values. As someone else pointed out, > why can't I view Variables and breakpoints concurently when debugging? Why > does the Error message need as much space as the Variable viewer? I've > never seen one that's taken up more than two lines, and even then it could > all be displayed on one line. Effecient workspace. You can drag the sections about: I normally have my scriptEditortaking up almost everything except for 1 line of the debugger. > 4) autocompletion > The flexibility of not using explicit variables with the safety net of > spelling them correctly all the time. Time saver. Yes and No: I turn off autocompletion in my office suites as do not like the things second-guessing my intentions; especially as the suggestions are often-as-not different to my intentions. > > 5) spellchecking > Can load custom dictionaries so whilst mine generally checks I spell > colour correctly, for LC work I can make sure I spell it the other way. > Time saver. Yuck. Maybe JUST for LiveCode reserved words, so the thing doesn't get in the way of words such as 'colour' and 'sceptical'. > > 6) boilerplates > I can type in switch and a little popup will come up with switch3, > switch3d, switch4, switch4d,... switch9, switch9d. I can either click on > one or type switch5d and press return and a bare switch statement with 5 > case entries will be created for me including the default structure. If I > didn't specify the d at the end, no default structure is included. Actually > 99% of the time I use the switch default structure as a place to catch > logic errors so my boiler place includes: > default > answer "A Case I Haven't Considered. Check the Variables." titled > "Switch Case Error" > breakpoint > end switch > > All typed out for me automatically. Time Saver > > 7) Inbuilt scripting > Strange that for a scripting language this is listed. Take this SQL > statement: > > SELECT * FROM table WHERE f1 = "AA" AND f2 = "BB" AND f3 = "DD" > > if I need to do this: > > put "SELECT * FROM table WHERE f1 = "AA" AND f2 = "BB" AND f3 = "DD"" > into tQuery > > it will not work because of the quotes in SQL have a different meaning > to LC so I need to replace all those " with " & quote & " - except the > first and last ". Yes, I appreciate I could do it manually with Find and > Replace but that's slow, or I can modify LC to allow me to run a script to > do that selective replacement similar to what I do in my TE, but I'm just > surprised at how much easier it is to do im my TE and just a keystroke a > way. Time saver. Indeed, that whole thing about 'quote' is a major pain in the bum. > > 8) folding > The ability to collapse a handler, control structure, multiline > comments down to a single line - an absolute godsend. Again I want the text > I'm interested in to cover 90% or more of my screen. So many times, > portions of what I'm focusing on are spread over just more than what is > displayed in the SE - why is that? Copy and paste into my TE and most of > the time I'm sweet, but often enough I wish I was able to collapse a 5 case > switch statments down to a single line and remove the 4 line comment > because then what I need to be looking at would all be viewable. Can be > done with other languages. You wont appreciate it until you've used it. > > 9) bracket pairing > How many times has your code been in error because of a mismatch in > brackets? Just about every time :( > Every TE worth it's salt provides some sort of indication of > bracket pairing, not just whilst you type the brackets, but also you can > come back and click on a bracket and it's mate will be hilighted. Also, an > unmatched bracket is highlited immediately, not when you go to Apply/Save. > Time saver. +1 > > 10) search and replace remembered > The last 10 searches and replacements are stored, although I think > that's only because I set it to 10. As most of my search and replace are > regex, and I'm NOT very good at it, having these saved is extremely > convenient. Nice feature. +1 > > 11) regex search pattern validation > Any serious work with text will at some time require a bit of regex. > Whilst building regex search and replace patterns my TE automatically > validates the code. To be fair, LC has a built in Regex Builder so you can > test your regex prior to use, but this isn't quite as nice as having it > automatically check your Find or Replace box entry. Nice feature > > 12) regex manual > Because I don't do too much regex, unless it's very basic I always need > to refer to a syntax manual. My TE has one built in. Nice feature Well . . . when it comes to manuals and documentation . . . > > 13) unlimited undo/redo > Enough said. Time Saver. +1 I see very little undo at all . . . > > 14) versioning > Happens automatically locally. Can easily intergrate with Git or SVN > systems. Essential for serious work. Well, again, that's not a scriptEditor thing, that needs to be there for the whole IDE. > > 15) difference comparison > Once you've gone down the versioning, Git, SVN route you HAVE to be > able to easily find differences and move chunks of text from one version to > another. Essential for serious work. > > Again, that's only off the top of my head. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode Richmond. From roger.e.eller at sealedair.com Fri Aug 28 07:45:48 2015 From: roger.e.eller at sealedair.com (Roger Eller) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 07:45:48 -0400 Subject: A question about differences in performance between Mac and Windows In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Are the machines equal in CPU, network card, connection speed, etc.? Is the PC real or virtual on the Mac? What is the database type? On Aug 28, 2015 5:34 AM, wrote: > Hi list > > I have a standalone used as a frontal for requests to a DB. The results > are compressed and base64encoded by a LC script on the server, and the > standalone displays them in a table field after base64decode and > decompress. > On Mac, the process takes 0.25 second to 1 second (when the amount of data > is important). > On Windows 7, it takes at least 3 to 4 secs, no matter how much data. > > Is there any rational explanation for that, and possibly a way to speed up > things on Windows ? > My guess is that some system librairies are called for base64decode and > decompress, which are significantly slower on Windows... > > Thanks > jbv > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From jbv at souslelogo.com Fri Aug 28 08:08:43 2015 From: jbv at souslelogo.com (jbv at souslelogo.com) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 15:08:43 +0300 Subject: A question about differences in performance between Mac and Windows In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <85ff81224f0315472964a335e5d71b29.squirrel@continental.on-rev.com> > Are the machines equal in CPU, network card, connection speed, etc.? Is > the PC real or virtual on the Mac? What is the database type? > On Aug 28, 2015 5:34 AM, wrote: > yes, the machines are pretty similar in terms of hardware, and in my tests both the iMac and the PC (real) are connected in the same way to the same adsl box. Besides, I have several clients using the same app on iMac or Win7 on various connections in various cities nationwide, and they all experience the same difference in performance... jbv From pystcat at gmail.com Fri Aug 28 10:01:54 2015 From: pystcat at gmail.com (PystCat) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 10:01:54 -0400 Subject: Mail and Sage - Problem sending Message-ID: <6EE6AA3C-61C3-4F35-A0D0-FBB01BD6C84F@gmail.com> Is anyone else having a problem sending email from Sage..? I can suddenly receive mail but I can't send it... I keep getting the standard "Mail Delivery Failed - Will Try Again" message. This happens with ALL email I send from Sage. Does anyone know the support email address for On-Rev..? I keep sending (from a different email) to On-rev at runrev.com but not getting any response. Thanks Paul From james at thehales.id.au Fri Aug 28 10:02:15 2015 From: james at thehales.id.au (James Hale) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2015 00:02:15 +1000 Subject: Documentation [was: Re: v8 DP3 Message-ID: <41392EFD-CCC3-45CA-80D9-CE669EBD91E9@thehales.id.au> I too was interested in helping with the documentation but am a tad confused about its format. It is not quite straight markdown, at least as far as any markdown editors I have put it through. Also I had a look at the viewer.html and was blown away at how complicated it was. Not that we need to deal with it, but given that it doesn't quite seem to be able to translate the "markdown" of the documentation fully perhaps we need more info on the required formatting. As an example have a look at what it does to the "htmltext" entry. Things are fine until halfway through it and then things go awry. BTW the JavaScript for the dictionary uses a hover function for the found entries. Lovely effect on a desktop, disaster on a touch device. Surely I am not the only one who likes to use a touch device to read the web, and yes, the documentation. James From ali.lloyd at livecode.com Fri Aug 28 10:09:15 2015 From: ali.lloyd at livecode.com (Ali Lloyd) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 14:09:15 +0000 Subject: Documentation [was: Re: v8 DP3 In-Reply-To: <41392EFD-CCC3-45CA-80D9-CE669EBD91E9@thehales.id.au> References: <41392EFD-CCC3-45CA-80D9-CE669EBD91E9@thehales.id.au> Message-ID: Hi James, The format is indeed not straight markdown but more like YAML. The Description element is the only part of it which is straight markdown. You can find a complete description of the format in the Extending Livecode guide in the dictionary, in the Specifications section. On Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 3:02 PM James Hale wrote: > I too was interested in helping with the documentation but am a tad > confused about its format. > It is not quite straight markdown, at least as far as any markdown editors > I have put it through. > Also I had a look at the viewer.html and was blown away at how complicated > it was. > Not that we need to deal with it, but given that it doesn't quite seem to > be able to translate the "markdown" of the documentation fully perhaps we > need more info on the required formatting. > As an example have a look at what it does to the "htmltext" entry. Things > are fine until halfway through it and then things go awry. > > BTW the JavaScript for the dictionary uses a hover function for the found > entries. Lovely effect on a desktop, disaster on a touch device. Surely I > am not the only one who likes to use a touch device to read the web, and > yes, the documentation. > > James > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Fri Aug 28 10:46:02 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 07:46:02 -0700 Subject: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55E0742A.70307@fourthworld.com> Kay C Lan wrote: > The problem though, was that stsMLXEditor was a bit of a patch job which > needed a better mechanism to track the changes and transfer those back and > forth - that improvement can only be done from the mothership. What's needed? Let's make it so. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Fri Aug 28 10:47:28 2015 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 10:47:28 -0400 Subject: embed CR in constant Message-ID: constant embedCRInConstant = "a"&CR&"b" throws an error. Suggestions? -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Aug 28 11:04:51 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 15:04:51 +0000 Subject: Choosing a database and LC tools In-Reply-To: <408F96A9-38FE-4796-B18D-8AD65C4E2629@gmail.com> References: <1439224613854-4694777.post@n4.nabble.com> <408F96A9-38FE-4796-B18D-8AD65C4E2629@gmail.com> Message-ID: If you use mySQL, (and perhaps others) there is an attribute for binary data. You should be able to safely store image data in such a column. Bob S On Aug 10, 2015, at 20:44 , PystCat > wrote: I read that storage of images in a mySQL database isn?t recommended. But, I have stored them in SQLite db?s and it worked fine. Haven?t tried it on mySQL. From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Aug 28 11:09:27 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 15:09:27 +0000 Subject: What is this - is anyone making money? In-Reply-To: <4CF68F42-4F42-44CA-90EF-CC47014A12E9@m-r-d.de> References: <4CF68F42-4F42-44CA-90EF-CC47014A12E9@m-r-d.de> Message-ID: <4F0D4EC6-3500-4E45-8E3C-228E803722F5@iotecdigital.com> I have not commercially distributed anything I have written. I have however written apps for the work I do for my company. They recently decided to adopt my Forms Generator in their workflow, which makes me somewhat of a needed commodity for them. I'm not sure how to put a price on that. I have purchased Livecode over the years, ever since Revolution 2.0, because it is in my interests for RunRev to continue to support this product, else I am completely out of the software development business. I simply do not have the time or patience to use other products. Bob S On Aug 19, 2015, at 13:45 , Matthias Rebbe | M-R-D > wrote: I am pretty sure there are many who made and still make money with Livecode apps. From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Aug 28 11:19:20 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 15:19:20 +0000 Subject: SFTP support [was: Re: Distribute beta versions of iOS app] In-Reply-To: <32c0141eb08b86f4e0804cc123731539@livecode.com> References: <"> <4417607974232833140@unknownmsgid> <"> <55D294C5.6020605@hyperactivesw.com> <55D29FC3.4090704@hindu.org> <55D2BCB8.3070501@hyperactivesw.com> <55D398B5.40308@hindu.org> <32c0141eb08b86f4e0804cc123731539@livecode.com> Message-ID: <35EF21AB-9C14-457E-A99C-3C3FBED646A0@iotecdigital.com> It is also , unfortunately, the abbreviation for Simple File Transfer Protocol: Simple File Transfer Protocol Simple File Transfer Protocol (the second protocol abbreviated SFTP), as defined by RFC 913, was proposed as an (unsecured) file transfer protocol with a level of complexity intermediate between TFTP and FTP. It was never widely accepted on the Internet, and is now assigned Historic status by the IETF. It runs through port 115, and often receives the initialism of SFTP. It has a command set of 11 commands and support three types of data transmission: ASCII, binary and continuous. For systems with a word size that is a multiple of 8 bits, the implementation of binary and continuous is the same. The protocol also supports login with user ID and password, hierarchical folders and file management (including rename, delete, upload, download, download with overwrite, and download with append). Who is running this circus anyway? ;-) Bob S > On Aug 18, 2015, at 14:33 , Peter TB Brett wrote: > > SFTP is not FTPS or FTP. It's an unrelated file transfer protocol that runs over Secure Shell (SSH). From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Aug 28 11:21:01 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 15:21:01 +0000 Subject: Set Variable or CustomProperty Names with and expression In-Reply-To: References: <55CACEE3.5040407@hindu.org> <14f22306bf8-1189-4bbfd@webprd-a24.mail.aol.com> <55CB8634.2030007@hindu.org> <55CBA7CC.2090006@hindu.org> Message-ID: <2B765AB4-761B-41FB-AED7-59823EDEEBAF@iotecdigital.com> I knew that once, forgot it, and am now reminded of it again. One of the many great reasons this list is the bomb. Bob S > On Aug 12, 2015, at 13:16 , Mike Bonner wrote: > > You can use a custompropertyset using array notation too. > > set the myproperty["uName"] of button 1 to "Fred is dead" > set the myproperty["uBirthday"] of button 1 to "Hatched not born" > > Then you can: put the myproperty["uName"] of button 1 and it'll say "fred > is dead" > > In this way you don't have to schlep the whole array in and out all the > time, while still having the advantages of using array notation. > > From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Aug 28 11:29:17 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 15:29:17 +0000 Subject: screen readers In-Reply-To: References: <55DE0DD6.4050305@pdslabs.net> <55DE0F89.8060207@pdslabs.net> Message-ID: I have a bin like that. Mine is more like those tiny little circular cans under most people's desk. Yours is probably the size of New York. Bob S On Aug 26, 2015, at 13:14 , Trevor DeVore > wrote: For me it is one of those things that I would like to have but isn't absolutely necessary. That means it sits in that little bin In my brain marked "Maybe someday...". -- Trevor DeVore From bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com Fri Aug 28 11:35:21 2015 From: bobsneidar at iotecdigital.com (Bob Sneidar) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 15:35:21 +0000 Subject: Quick Challenge In-Reply-To: <55DF2F35.7060200@gmail.com> References: <55DF2F35.7060200@gmail.com> Message-ID: Stop showing off Richmond! ;-P Bob S > On Aug 27, 2015, at 08:39 , Richmond wrote: > > Lots of clever answers . . . > > Now try with this text: > > ?????????????? ?????? ????? ????? ???? ???? ???? ?????????????? ?????????????????. ??? ??? ?????? ????????? ?????????? ?????????? ????????????: ?????? ????? ??????? ?????? ????????? ??????? ????????? ????? ???? ?? ???? ?? ????? ?????, ??? ??? ????????` ?? ?????? ?????? ??????? ???? (???????? ?? ????????) ?????????? ??, ?? ???????` ???? ????? ?? ????? ??????? ??????? ?? ????????? ?????????? ?? ?????????? ??????????? ????????? > > Before anyone asks, this is Armenian. > > Richmond. From pete at lcsql.com Fri Aug 28 11:52:54 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 15:52:54 +0000 Subject: embed CR in constant In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It's been my experience that constants won;t accept any sort of expression as a value, only string literals or numbers. On Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 7:48 AM Mike Kerner wrote: > constant embedCRInConstant = "a"&CR&"b" > > throws an error. Suggestions? > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From dunbarx at aol.com Fri Aug 28 12:31:37 2015 From: dunbarx at aol.com (dunbarx at aol.com) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 12:31:37 -0400 Subject: embed CR in constant In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <14f75266f99-62c6-13a8@webprd-a92.mail.aol.com> This may be a new instance of LC requiring two levels of evaluation, like "do" is used for in certain cases. Try this on MouseUp get "A" & CR & "B" constant embedCRInConstant = it end mouseUp Craig Newman -----Original Message----- From: Mike Kerner To: How to use LiveCode Sent: Fri, Aug 28, 2015 10:48 am Subject: embed CR in constant constant embedCRInConstant = "a"&CR&"b" throws an error. Suggestions? -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Fri Aug 28 13:04:30 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 17:04:30 +0000 (UTC) Subject: LC8 IDE publish-and-subscribe Message-ID: The new LC8 IDE implements the publish-and-subscribe pattern, but it looks like it isn't designed to be extensible. It's extensible right now because revIDEMessageIsValid() always returns true. Q: assuming that the validity check was an interim test to make sure the IDE didn't fall on its face, can we rely on this mechanism as a way to register callback events in the IDE, and thus extend and modify the IDE? -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From bornstein at designeq.com Fri Aug 28 13:26:07 2015 From: bornstein at designeq.com (Howard Bornstein) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 10:26:07 -0700 Subject: Mail and Sage - Problem sending In-Reply-To: <6EE6AA3C-61C3-4F35-A0D0-FBB01BD6C84F@gmail.com> References: <6EE6AA3C-61C3-4F35-A0D0-FBB01BD6C84F@gmail.com> Message-ID: I've seen that and support at on-rev.com. I'm on Sage but I don't use their SMTP server so I can't help you out there. On Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 7:01 AM, PystCat wrote: > Is anyone else having a problem sending email from Sage..? I can suddenly > receive mail but I can't send it... I keep getting the standard "Mail > Delivery Failed - Will Try Again" message. This happens with ALL email I > send from Sage. > > Does anyone know the support email address for On-Rev..? I keep sending > (from a different email) to On-rev at runrev.com but not getting any > response. > > Thanks > Paul > > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- Regards, Howard Bornstein ----------------------- www.designeq.com From pystcat at gmail.com Fri Aug 28 13:49:05 2015 From: pystcat at gmail.com (PystCat) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 13:49:05 -0400 Subject: Mail and Sage - Problem sending In-Reply-To: References: <6EE6AA3C-61C3-4F35-A0D0-FBB01BD6C84F@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3B089C47-2AB3-4DD3-B3D2-ADB17F934893@gmail.com> Thanks Howard. I'll try resending to the support at on-rev again. > On Aug 28, 2015, at 1:26 PM, Howard Bornstein wrote: > > I've seen that and support at on-rev.com. > > I'm on Sage but I don't use their SMTP server so I can't help you out there. > >> On Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 7:01 AM, PystCat wrote: >> >> Is anyone else having a problem sending email from Sage..? I can suddenly >> receive mail but I can't send it... I keep getting the standard "Mail >> Delivery Failed - Will Try Again" message. This happens with ALL email I >> send from Sage. >> >> Does anyone know the support email address for On-Rev..? I keep sending >> (from a different email) to On-rev at runrev.com but not getting any >> response. >> >> Thanks >> Paul >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > -- > Regards, > > Howard Bornstein > ----------------------- > www.designeq.com > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From bonnmike at gmail.com Fri Aug 28 14:23:20 2015 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 12:23:20 -0600 Subject: embed CR in constant In-Reply-To: <14f75266f99-62c6-13a8@webprd-a92.mail.aol.com> References: <14f75266f99-62c6-13a8@webprd-a92.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: You could put things together with a urlencoded cr, but then any time you use the constant you'd have to urldecode it, which is kinda silly when you can just use a property instead. constant myConst="test%0D%0Aing" on mouseup put urldecode(myConst) end mouseup output: test ing On Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 10:31 AM, wrote: > This may be a new instance of LC requiring two levels of evaluation, like > "do" is used for in certain cases. > > > Try this > > > on MouseUp > get "A" & CR & "B" > constant embedCRInConstant = it > end mouseUp > > > Craig Newman > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike Kerner > To: How to use LiveCode > Sent: Fri, Aug 28, 2015 10:48 am > Subject: embed CR in constant > > > constant embedCRInConstant = "a"&CR&"b" > > throws an error. Suggestions? > > -- > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, > God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few > hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is > good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing > list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, > unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From smudge.andy at googlemail.com Fri Aug 28 15:54:51 2015 From: smudge.andy at googlemail.com (AndyP) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 12:54:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Mail and Sage - Problem sending In-Reply-To: <6EE6AA3C-61C3-4F35-A0D0-FBB01BD6C84F@gmail.com> References: <6EE6AA3C-61C3-4F35-A0D0-FBB01BD6C84F@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1440791691265-4695710.post@n4.nabble.com> Hi Paul, I've had problems on sage sending and mail forwarding for a while now. Contacted support 2 days back and have received a reply today saying that work has been carried out on the server ?? However the problems seem to have been fixed for me so hopefully the server changes will also have a positive effect for you. ----- Andy Piddock My software never has bugs. It just develops random features. Copy the new cloud space, get your free 15GB space now: Get Copy Script editor Themer for LC http://2108.co.uk PointandSee is a FREE simple but full featured under cursor colour picker / finder. http://www.pointandsee.co.uk - made with LiveCode -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Mail-and-Sage-Problem-sending-tp4695693p4695710.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From pystcat at gmail.com Fri Aug 28 16:24:05 2015 From: pystcat at gmail.com (PystCat) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 16:24:05 -0400 Subject: Mail and Sage - Problem sending In-Reply-To: <1440791691265-4695710.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <6EE6AA3C-61C3-4F35-A0D0-FBB01BD6C84F@gmail.com> <1440791691265-4695710.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: Thanks Andy. I've sent a few tickets and one to Heather.. I don't like sending to her about On-Rev stuff but I figured she would forward on. My problem is I haven't heard back from anyone... And I'm still out on the water without a paddle. > On Aug 28, 2015, at 3:54 PM, AndyP wrote: > > Hi Paul, > > I've had problems on sage sending and mail forwarding for a while now. > Contacted support 2 days back and have received a reply today saying that > work has been carried out on the server ?? > > However the problems seem to have been fixed for me so hopefully the server > changes will also have a positive effect for you. > > > > ----- > Andy Piddock > > > My software never has bugs. It just develops random features. > > Copy the new cloud space, get your free 15GB space now: > Get Copy > > > Script editor Themer for LC http://2108.co.uk > > PointandSee is a FREE simple but full featured under cursor colour picker / finder. > http://www.pointandsee.co.uk - made with LiveCode > -- > View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Mail-and-Sage-Problem-sending-tp4695693p4695710.html > Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From pystcat at gmail.com Fri Aug 28 16:24:05 2015 From: pystcat at gmail.com (PystCat) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 16:24:05 -0400 Subject: Mail and Sage - Problem sending In-Reply-To: <1440791691265-4695710.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <6EE6AA3C-61C3-4F35-A0D0-FBB01BD6C84F@gmail.com> <1440791691265-4695710.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: Thanks Andy. I've sent a few tickets and one to Heather.. I don't like sending to her about On-Rev stuff but I figured she would forward on. My problem is I haven't heard back from anyone... And I'm still out on the water without a paddle. > On Aug 28, 2015, at 3:54 PM, AndyP wrote: > > Hi Paul, > > I've had problems on sage sending and mail forwarding for a while now. > Contacted support 2 days back and have received a reply today saying that > work has been carried out on the server ?? > > However the problems seem to have been fixed for me so hopefully the server > changes will also have a positive effect for you. > > > > ----- > Andy Piddock > > > My software never has bugs. It just develops random features. > > Copy the new cloud space, get your free 15GB space now: > Get Copy > > > Script editor Themer for LC http://2108.co.uk > > PointandSee is a FREE simple but full featured under cursor colour picker / finder. > http://www.pointandsee.co.uk - made with LiveCode > -- > View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Mail-and-Sage-Problem-sending-tp4695693p4695710.html > Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de Fri Aug 28 17:21:17 2015 From: matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de (Matthias Rebbe | M-R-D) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 23:21:17 +0200 Subject: Mail and Sage - Problem sending In-Reply-To: References: <6EE6AA3C-61C3-4F35-A0D0-FBB01BD6C84F@gmail.com> <1440791691265-4695710.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: Paul, did you sent your support request with URGENT in the subject line? Use your email address which is set in cPanel for communication. You could also use the contact form at http://www.on-rev.com/support/contact-us/ to send such a request. Select ?Emergency support request? for the subject. Such support request are answered within 2 hrs or so. Please be aware, that such urgent requests should only be sent if the server is not working or is not working properly or is causing trouble But i would say, being not able to send email is an urgent support case. Matthias > Am 28.08.2015 um 22:24 schrieb PystCat : > > Thanks Andy. I've sent a few tickets and one to Heather.. I don't like sending to her about On-Rev stuff but I figured she would forward on. My problem is I haven't heard back from anyone... And I'm still out on the water without a paddle. > > From ali.lloyd at livecode.com Fri Aug 28 17:29:03 2015 From: ali.lloyd at livecode.com (Ali Lloyd) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 21:29:03 +0000 Subject: LC8 IDE publish-and-subscribe In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Originally we had the check to prevent us making typos and such. As I have previously said, it is exactly designed to be extensible. Once 8.0 reaches GM, you can rely on that handler being a no-op. If you have any suggestions about improvements to the system it would be good to hear them. I think at the moment there is a slight lack of flexibility in terms of the info that can be returned along with the message. On Fri, 28 Aug 2015 at 18:04, Mark wrote: > The new LC8 IDE implements the publish-and-subscribe pattern, > but it looks like it isn't designed to be extensible. It's extensible > right now because revIDEMessageIsValid() always returns true. > > Q: assuming that the validity check was an interim test to make sure > the IDE didn't fall on its face, can we rely on this mechanism as a way > to register callback events in the IDE, and thus extend and modify > the IDE? > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From ali.lloyd at livecode.com Fri Aug 28 17:31:20 2015 From: ali.lloyd at livecode.com (Ali Lloyd) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 21:31:20 +0000 Subject: LC8 IDE publish-and-subscribe In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Oops, didn't see the Q part of the message! Yes, your assumption is correct. On Fri, 28 Aug 2015 at 22:29, Ali Lloyd wrote: > Originally we had the check to prevent us making typos and such. As I have > previously said, it is exactly designed to be extensible. Once 8.0 reaches > GM, you can rely on that handler being a no-op. > > If you have any suggestions about improvements to the system it would be > good to hear them. I think at the moment there is a slight lack of > flexibility in terms of the info that can be returned along with the > message. > > On Fri, 28 Aug 2015 at 18:04, Mark wrote: > >> The new LC8 IDE implements the publish-and-subscribe pattern, >> but it looks like it isn't designed to be extensible. It's extensible >> right now because revIDEMessageIsValid() always returns true. >> >> Q: assuming that the validity check was an interim test to make sure >> the IDE didn't fall on its face, can we rely on this mechanism as a way >> to register callback events in the IDE, and thus extend and modify >> the IDE? >> >> -- >> Mark Wieder >> ahsoftware at gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > From pystcat at gmail.com Fri Aug 28 17:47:32 2015 From: pystcat at gmail.com (PystCat) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 17:47:32 -0400 Subject: Mail and Sage - Problem sending In-Reply-To: References: <6EE6AA3C-61C3-4F35-A0D0-FBB01BD6C84F@gmail.com> <1440791691265-4695710.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: Thanks Matthias. I know the Mother Ship is usually up on things so I never like to bother them with stuff I don't consider THAT urgent. I do use the email address for more business issues but since I am receiving email I am (somewhat) fine with just letting them know... I think I will use (and save) that link to contact them. Thanks. > On Aug 28, 2015, at 5:21 PM, Matthias Rebbe | M-R-D wrote: > > > > Paul, > > did you sent your support request with URGENT in the subject line? Use your email address which is set in cPanel for communication. > You could also use the contact form at http://www.on-rev.com/support/contact-us/ to send such a request. > Select ?Emergency support request? for the subject. > > Such support request are answered within 2 hrs or so. > > Please be aware, that such urgent requests should only be sent if the server is not working or is not working properly or is causing trouble > > But i would say, being not able to send email is an urgent support case. > > Matthias > >> Am 28.08.2015 um 22:24 schrieb PystCat : >> >> Thanks Andy. I've sent a few tickets and one to Heather.. I don't like sending to her about On-Rev stuff but I figured she would forward on. My problem is I haven't heard back from anyone... And I'm still out on the water without a paddle. > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From peter.brett at livecode.com Fri Aug 28 17:58:39 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 22:58:39 +0100 Subject: Mail and Sage - Problem sending In-Reply-To: References: <6EE6AA3C-61C3-4F35-A0D0-FBB01BD6C84F@gmail.com> <1440791691265-4695710.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <53274fa44ab4dbab37efb7f35cac0781@livecode.com> On 2015-08-28 22:47, PystCat wrote: > Thanks Matthias. I know the Mother Ship is usually up on things so I > never like to bother them with stuff I don't consider THAT urgent. I > do use the email address for more business issues but since I am > receiving email I am (somewhat) fine with just letting them know... > > I think I will use (and save) that link to contact them. Thanks. > It may not seem like it some times, but I think we'd generally prefer to get told about a problem multiple times than not get told about it at all! Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Open Source Team LiveCode on reddit! From pystcat at gmail.com Fri Aug 28 18:18:14 2015 From: pystcat at gmail.com (PystCat) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 18:18:14 -0400 Subject: Mail and Sage - Problem sending In-Reply-To: <53274fa44ab4dbab37efb7f35cac0781@livecode.com> References: <6EE6AA3C-61C3-4F35-A0D0-FBB01BD6C84F@gmail.com> <1440791691265-4695710.post@n4.nabble.com> <53274fa44ab4dbab37efb7f35cac0781@livecode.com> Message-ID: <8FFD7284-885F-4426-858E-763DF14BAC83@gmail.com> LOL... I understand. I have sent a few emails over the past few days... Usually I get a ticket in my email within 10 minutes of submitting problems in the past... This time..? Nothing. I just sent one through the the link that Matthias sent and I received a trouble ticket so all is well (sort of) in my world. > On Aug 28, 2015, at 5:58 PM, Peter TB Brett wrote: > >> On 2015-08-28 22:47, PystCat wrote: >> Thanks Matthias. I know the Mother Ship is usually up on things so I >> never like to bother them with stuff I don't consider THAT urgent. I >> do use the email address for more business issues but since I am >> receiving email I am (somewhat) fine with just letting them know... >> I think I will use (and save) that link to contact them. Thanks. > > It may not seem like it some times, but I think we'd generally prefer to get told about a problem multiple times than not get told about it at all! > > Peter > > -- > Dr Peter Brett > LiveCode Open Source Team > > LiveCode on reddit! > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Fri Aug 28 22:02:39 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 19:02:39 -0700 Subject: LC8 IDE publish-and-subscribe In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55E112BF.7050605@ahsoftware.net> On 08/28/2015 02:31 PM, Ali Lloyd wrote: > Oops, didn't see the Q part of the message! Yes, your assumption is correct. Great! That's exciting! (and that's the first time I've said that about LC8) -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Fri Aug 28 22:17:05 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 19:17:05 -0700 Subject: embed CR in constant In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55E11621.30003@ahsoftware.net> On 08/28/2015 07:47 AM, Mike Kerner wrote: > constant embedCRInConstant = "a"&CR&"b" > > throws an error. Suggestions? I first logged this as a bug in 2004. (http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1241) The current bug number is 12802, and the other reports (1241, 3680, 8737, 13955) have been "resolved" as duplicates of that one, although the "resolved" status of the many bug reports is somewhat in question. You can now use negative numbers as constants. That seems to be fixed in build 7.0-rc1. Otherwise constants can only be strings or numbers. The way I get around this is by defining ersatzConstants: local kConstantButNotReally = "" -- initialize it in preOpenStack put some_value into kConstantButNotReally -- then treat it like a constant -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Fri Aug 28 22:17:46 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 19:17:46 -0700 Subject: embed CR in constant In-Reply-To: <14f75266f99-62c6-13a8@webprd-a92.mail.aol.com> References: <14f75266f99-62c6-13a8@webprd-a92.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: <55E1164A.7050305@ahsoftware.net> On 08/28/2015 09:31 AM, dunbarx at aol.com wrote: > on MouseUp > get "A" & CR & "B" > constant embedCRInConstant = it > end mouseUp No. You can't do that. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Fri Aug 28 23:12:21 2015 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2015 11:12:21 +0800 Subject: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card) In-Reply-To: <55E0742A.70307@fourthworld.com> References: <55E0742A.70307@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 10:46 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Kay C Lan wrote: > > a better mechanism to track the changes and transfer those back and >> forth - that improvement can only be done from the mothership. >> > > What's needed? > > Let's make it so. > Love the positive attitude :-) >From memory stsMLXEditor was written when the SE was a seperate animal to the Debugger, hence: The external editor will not open a script if the IDE script editor window > is open. > I think when the SE and Debugger merged stsMLXEditor became less useful because it was no longer possible to have just the Debugger open and my TE. I haven't had a look for quite a while, so maybe I need to give it another whirl and see - although it looks as though a few others are giving it a go so maybe they'll come up with some constructive criticisms. And in the interest of Full Disclosure, when I said 'Well yes and no' to my TE letting me add breakpoints, the Yes was because 99.9% of the time I use "breakpoint" hard coded in my scripts. I've played with Red Dots but I've had them ignored on too many occasions so I've given up on them and just use "breakpoint". I appreciate that others use the Red Dots all the time and have far more success with them. I appreciate that they are far more powerful that a hard coded "breakpoint" because they can be conditional. So there would need to be a way to implement Red Dots for those who like them. IMO, basic Red Dots are the same as a hard breakpoint. In my TE I type cmd-B and I get "breakpoint" typed out for me - it's faster than grabbing the mouse and clicking on the screen. As a suggestion, conditional waypoints would require something like typing out: breakpointCondtional if tVar = "garbage" then breakpoint. In this case it would require the LC Team to parse breakpointConditional into a Conditional Red Dot. And vice versa. I think at the moment Red Dots are probably the biggest issue because if you modify blocks of script that contain Red Dots, with blocks of text with a different line count, then the Red Dots are deactivated and typically will no longer match the line they were originally attached to. As you've noted, colourisation is a personal thing. Some find it distracting, others helpful. My TE currently doesn't have the same colourisation capabilities as the SE does so it would be nice if brought into line. I understand Peter added LC colourisation to the Atom Editor. Again I need to have a look at that some time. Interestingly, whilst I normally do like colourisation, when ever I do get a very long script line that fails due to some misplaced ", a quick copy and paste in to my TE quickly reveals the culprit because the more basic colourisation of my TE allows the error to be pinpointed more quickly. If my TE matched the SE colourisation, then this wouldn't work. From brahma at hindu.org Fri Aug 28 23:17:45 2015 From: brahma at hindu.org (Brahmanathaswami) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 17:17:45 -1000 Subject: Button Names on top of their icon? In-Reply-To: <60B69EBE-C3FC-4576-91A6-8500B5BCDA56@livecode.org> References: <55DFE1E8.9020807@hindu.org> <60B69EBE-C3FC-4576-91A6-8500B5BCDA56@livecode.org> Message-ID: <55E12459.1080400@hindu.org> @ Scott: iconGravity: wow... undocumented feature and this really should be exposed in the button inspector.. it works. @ Paul: setting the pattern works. So far so good, but but the issue is also the vertical alignment of the button name: Solution: Set the pattern to the image... set the rect of the button to exactly the rect of the image and you will clean up any appearance of the image repeated along the edges (it's a pattern); then use the textProperty/margins of the button to position the name to center it on the button. hurray! Long story: In both cases.. the default vertical center line of the name of the button is shifted down from the actual vertical center of the button itself -- and, now, the icon therein. The engine algorithm seems to be: hang the text from the top of the "m" height (top of the lower case letters) on the center line of the button. this seems to be, from my tests "sticky" , ... as you change size of the type for the name... it consistently places the text with the top of the lower case letters aligned to the vertical center of the button Now... we have this in the dictionary as a possible way to "tweak" positioning in the iconGravity entry... but it does not help us if you use iconGravity... Comments: The margins and borderWidth are taken into account when rendering the icon - the rectangle the icon is placed in is taken to be the button rect after subtracting margins and borderWidth all the way round. But it does not affect the text position. but if you use the pattern then setting the button textProperty margin gives us what we want as documented under the dictionary entry for "margins" : "Use the margins property to control how close text within a button or field can come to the object's edges, how close objects in a group can come to the group's edges, and how the label of a graphic is displayed." I wonder if it the button name position holds across platforms... BR Paul Hibbert wrote: > If the image is the correct size for the button, you can assign it to the backgroundPattern (fill) instead of the icon. > > Paul > > - hide quoted text -- show quoted text - >> > On Aug 27, 2015, at 21:22, Brahmanathaswami wrote: >> > >> > Is there some way to get a button name to be centered on top of it's icon? >> > >> > >> > This is a context where the icon is designed to be a background for the button and the center area is clear, plain, flat colored and meant to take the button label. Of course can import the image and put a transparent button on top, but ideally we could center the button name on top of the icon itself... but I can't find a way to do that... is there a way? >> > >> > BR From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Fri Aug 28 23:43:03 2015 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2015 11:43:03 +0800 Subject: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card) In-Reply-To: References: <55E0742A.70307@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Oh, and just a slight tangent. I've seen it mentioned before but it hadn't really registered until I was playing with LC8 yesterday, but the new 'Script only Stack' would seem to be the perfect beast to offer up as a guinea pig for Text Editor integration. If my assumptions* are correct (unlikely) then there will be only a single block of text involved which would greatly simplify the tracking and sync process. Get TE Integration to work on Script only Stacks first, and once sorted, move on to any stack. *I'm assuming there are no objects, so you can't have button, field, front or back scripts. No card script? Is there ONLY one stack script? From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Fri Aug 28 23:46:14 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 20:46:14 -0700 Subject: ANN: PowerDebug 1.1.17 Message-ID: <55E12B06.6050501@ahsoftware.net> I have released a new version of PowerDebug. It's been two years since it's needed an update, but it's revision time, due to some minor incompatibilities with LiveCode 7.x and 8.x. This release fixes a problem when quitting on OSX after a debugging session. Apparently frontscripts are now removed from memory at an earlier time than in previous releases, on OSX only. Also fixed a problem where fields were not getting initialized properly the first time an error occurred. Nobody reported it as a problem, so I guess it hasn't bothered anyone but me. But it's fixed. Also updated for LC7/8 is the initial variable display was empty on a runtime error. This is now fixed and hopefully future-proof. From the Release Notes : Fixed segfault on OSX when quitting LC7 IDE after debug session Copy button is no longer a default button Fixed tab setting for Global and Environment vars display Moved Error Display code from preOpenStack to Openstack to initialize fields Documentation is at http://powerdebug.ahsoftware.net http://www.ahsoftware.net/PowerTools/BuyPowerDebug.irev -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Fri Aug 28 23:50:19 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 20:50:19 -0700 Subject: ATTN: Tao Meng Message-ID: <55E12BFB.2020502@ahsoftware.net> My PowerDebug update email announcement to you bounced. Please send me updated contact info to be notified of releases. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Fri Aug 28 23:51:22 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 20:51:22 -0700 Subject: ATTN: Mario Noto Message-ID: <55E12C3A.5040301@ahsoftware.net> My PowerDebug update email announcement to you bounced. Please send me updated contact info to be notified of releases. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Fri Aug 28 23:52:12 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 20:52:12 -0700 Subject: ATTN: Ed Gore Message-ID: <55E12C6C.8060403@ahsoftware.net> My PowerDebug update email announcement to you bounced. Please send me updated contact info to be notified of releases. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From scott at tactilemedia.com Sat Aug 29 01:39:46 2015 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 22:39:46 -0700 Subject: Button Names on top of their icon? In-Reply-To: <55E12459.1080400@hindu.org> References: <55DFE1E8.9020807@hindu.org> <60B69EBE-C3FC-4576-91A6-8500B5BCDA56@livecode.org> <55E12459.1080400@hindu.org> Message-ID: Hi Bramanatha: iconGravity is documented -- the property isn't part of the inspector, but you can look it up in the Dictionary (I see it was introduced in 6.7). Best Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design On 8/28/15, 8:17 PM, "Brahmanathaswami" wrote: >@ Scott: iconGravity: wow... undocumented feature and this really should >be exposed in the button inspector.. it works. From peter.brett at livecode.com Sat Aug 29 03:00:13 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2015 08:00:13 +0100 Subject: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card) In-Reply-To: References: <55E0742A.70307@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <065488f109ee63f061f1b2e659b4fb17@livecode.com> On 2015-08-29 04:43, Kay C Lan wrote: > Oh, and just a slight tangent. > > I've seen it mentioned before but it hadn't really registered until I > was > playing with LC8 yesterday, but the new 'Script only Stack' would seem > to > be the perfect beast to offer up as a guinea pig for Text Editor > integration. If my assumptions* are correct (unlikely) then there will > be > only a single block of text involved which would greatly simplify the > tracking and sync process. > > Get TE Integration to work on Script only Stacks first, and once > sorted, > move on to any stack. > > *I'm assuming there are no objects, so you can't have button, field, > front > or back scripts. No card script? Is there ONLY one stack script? Your assumptions are correct. No card script, only a single stack script, all as a block of text. Here's an example from the LiveCode 8 script editor: https://github.com/runrev/livecode-ide/blob/develop/Toolset/palettes/script%20editor/behaviors/revsestackbehavior.livecodescript Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Open Source Team LiveCode on reddit! From peter.brett at livecode.com Sat Aug 29 03:04:30 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2015 08:04:30 +0100 Subject: Documentation [was: Re: v8 DP3] In-Reply-To: <55E029BA.7050605@gmail.com> References: <55DDD9F5.4040803@gmail.com> <55DDE73B.1040803@warrensweb.us> <55DE2F8C.4080405@gmail.com> <55DEB209.8040403@gmail.com> <1392CC08-70FC-4784-A05C-1A2AF4E1321B@techstrategies.com.au> <55DEB872.6080901@gmail.com> <1997ed2437174f2275501c52474b2b10@livecode.com> <55DF7583.1010101@hyperactivesw.com> <55DFFD92.7060507@gmail.com> <55E00A84.1090300@gmail.com> <55E025CA.1000804@gmail.com> <55E02806.7060602@livecode.com> <55E029BA.7050605@gmail.com> Message-ID: <9bbe7fa88f35026e9edfbe80e78e24f2@livecode.com> On 2015-08-28 10:28, Richmond wrote: > > https://help.github.com/articles/which-remote-url-should-i-use/#cloning-with-https-recommended > > "When you view a repository while signed in to your account > > First of all, where do I find the GIT interface on my computer so that > I can log into it, or, > > for the sake of argument, how can I log into the GitHub using Atom > (which I installed just before breakfast), > clone stuff and get to work? Technically, you don't actually need to install anything on your computer to make changes to the documentation. You can actually do it all through the GitHub website! Ali posted some instructions here: Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Open Source Team LiveCode on reddit! From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sat Aug 29 03:20:23 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2015 10:20:23 +0300 Subject: A book for babies? Message-ID: <55E15D37.3000403@gmail.com> If you are*NOT* interested in teaching *small children* /LiveCode/ stop reading now. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Having taught a reasonably successful, relatively intensive course to *Primary level** **children* during the summer, and starting a once-a-week thing in October I am quite seriously thinking of putting together a *book* for Primary kids. This would *NOT* be full of theorising, and *NOT* like a 'standard' text book; rather a hands-on cookery book. Obviously, a significant part of this book will be pictorial. HOWEVER . . . Seeing the vast and significant changes coming with *LiveCode 8.0.0.* [and, to be honest, all I taught the children was doable in LC 4.5] including its interface changes (at the moment I'm thinking of the *preferences** **palette* and the *toolBar* stack) . . . I am really wondering what the point is, as, any book I start on now will either feature screen shots of the *LC 7 interface* or the *LC 8 alpha interface*; both of which may go down the pan just as my book is ready. ALSO . . . my course that will run from October to May will us LC 7 (especially as the LC 8 series is in a state of flux) . . . so any extra stuff arising (and, with hindsight, I can see lots of gaps that need to be plugged) will also be framed in terms of the LC 7 interface. As soon as a FIXED interface for LC 8 (???????) is released I will have to sit down and make myself comfortable with it even before I start dishing it out either to kids in class or in the form of a book. ---------------------------------------------------------- I should be glad of any advice, comments, and so on about my quandary. ---------------------------------------------------------- In the light of some favourable responses I am wondering about releasing beta versions of my chapters under a non-disclosure agreement to interested parties to torture their children with on the understanding that they will 'pay' for them by giving me vigorous feedback. ---------------------------------------------------------- In light of the discussions anent a possible 'unified IDE' ['that' picture], I also would like to know what chances there are of that sort of thing being on the cards, whether it would be locked-in [heaven forfend] or optional, and so on, as, were it to be present in LC 8.x.x it might be necessary to write a book with what could be termed "a double feature" [think "Rocky Horror Show"] where almost every single screen shot has to be reduplicated for the two interfaces . . . ----------------------------------------------------------- I have no great desire to put together the sort of book I am talking about to find that it is outdated as soon as it comes off the presses. Richmond. From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sat Aug 29 03:31:35 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2015 10:31:35 +0300 Subject: Documentation [was: Re: v8 DP3] In-Reply-To: <9bbe7fa88f35026e9edfbe80e78e24f2@livecode.com> References: <55DDD9F5.4040803@gmail.com> <55DDE73B.1040803@warrensweb.us> <55DE2F8C.4080405@gmail.com> <55DEB209.8040403@gmail.com> <1392CC08-70FC-4784-A05C-1A2AF4E1321B@techstrategies.com.au> <55DEB872.6080901@gmail.com> <1997ed2437174f2275501c52474b2b10@livecode.com> <55DF7583.1010101@hyperactivesw.com> <55DFFD92.7060507@gmail.com> <55E00A84.1090300@gmail.com> <55E025CA.1000804@gmail.com> <55E02806.7060602@livecode.com> <55E029BA.7050605@gmail.com> <9bbe7fa88f35026e9edfbe80e78e24f2@livecode.com> Message-ID: <55E15FD7.3050406@gmail.com> On 08/29/2015 10:04 AM, Peter TB Brett wrote: > On 2015-08-28 10:28, Richmond wrote: >> >> https://help.github.com/articles/which-remote-url-should-i-use/#cloning-with-https-recommended >> >> >> "When you view a repository while signed in to your account >> >> First of all, where do I find the GIT interface on my computer so that >> I can log into it, or, >> >> for the sake of argument, how can I log into the GitHub using Atom >> (which I installed just before breakfast), >> clone stuff and get to work? > > Technically, you don't actually need to install anything on your > computer to make changes to the documentation. You can actually do it > all through the GitHub website! Ali posted some instructions here: > > > Peter > That does look a whole lot simpler. Thank you very much. Richmond. From monte at sweattechnologies.com Sat Aug 29 03:53:04 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2015 17:53:04 +1000 Subject: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card) In-Reply-To: <065488f109ee63f061f1b2e659b4fb17@livecode.com> References: <55E0742A.70307@fourthworld.com> <065488f109ee63f061f1b2e659b4fb17@livecode.com> Message-ID: <0442D7CD-593F-4037-9CE6-81C9B9CA5783@sweattechnologies.com> Hi Peter Has anyone seen my post on the engine forum about a scriptOnly property for stacks: http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=25065 Happy to contribute it Cheers Monte Sent from my iPhone > On 29 Aug 2015, at 5:00 pm, Peter TB Brett wrote: > > Your assumptions are correct. No card script, only a single stack script, all as a block of text. From bogdanoff at me.com Sat Aug 29 03:56:33 2015 From: bogdanoff at me.com (Peter Bogdanoff) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2015 00:56:33 -0700 Subject: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card) In-Reply-To: <0442D7CD-593F-4037-9CE6-81C9B9CA5783@sweattechnologies.com> References: <55E0742A.70307@fourthworld.com> <065488f109ee63f061f1b2e659b4fb17@livecode.com> <0442D7CD-593F-4037-9CE6-81C9B9CA5783@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <03671F38-B066-4F5C-A8AF-8821DAD058C1@me.com> That URL is not working. Probably should be: http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=25065&p=130099&hilit=scriptOnly#p130099 Peter On Aug 29, 2015, at 12:53 AM, Monte Goulding wrote: > scriptOnly From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Sat Aug 29 06:53:52 2015 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2015 18:53:52 +0800 Subject: [Bug] Red Dot Breakpoints Ignored - Recipe Message-ID: In line with a recent post I made mention of the fact that I don't use Red Dot breakpoints as they are ignored too often. I know others have had similar complaints. But in the interest of seeing if improvements have been made I just had a go in LC 7.1 rc 1 on OS X 10.9.5 and made the following discovery. New Mainstack with Script Debug Mode On. Add a button Add this script to the mouseUp handler of the button. repeat with x = 1 to 10 add 1 to x end repeat beep Apply and click the button and confirm it beeps. Now add a Red Dot breakpoint at the line: add 1 to x Add the following Breakpoint condition: x > 4 Click the button and confirm the Debugger stops with x shown as 5 Now amend the condition to: x = 4 Click the button and on my machine the Red Dot is ignored. Now amend the condition to: the quick brown fox Click the button and on my machine the Red Dot is ignored. >From what I can tell there is no validation of what you type into the conditional box and if it happens to be invalid, then the Red Dot is ignored. Very easy if you happen to have a long and complex condition and just happen to be missing a ) or a ". The fact that valid = conditions are also ignored is clearly a bug. I expected to find a Bug Report at the QCC but nothing stuck out. I know that this has been a long standing issue so can: a) you confirm that you see this too b) suggest an appropriate bug number to add my findings. From peter.brett at livecode.com Sat Aug 29 08:22:46 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2015 13:22:46 +0100 Subject: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card) In-Reply-To: <0442D7CD-593F-4037-9CE6-81C9B9CA5783@sweattechnologies.com> References: <55E0742A.70307@fourthworld.com> <065488f109ee63f061f1b2e659b4fb17@livecode.com> <0442D7CD-593F-4037-9CE6-81C9B9CA5783@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: On 2015-08-29 08:53, Monte Goulding wrote: > Hi Peter > > Has anyone seen my post on the engine forum about a scriptOnly > property for stacks: > > http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=25065 > > Happy to contribute it This looks like the sort of thing that's best off being looked at by Mark Waddingham. Unfortunately my last day before my annual holiday is the day before he gets back from his annual holiday, so I'm not going to be able to bring this up with him for at least a couple of weeks. Can I suggest that you e-mail him directly? Or just submit a PR on GitHub, that'll make sure it doesn't get forgotten about. ;-) Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Open Source Team LiveCode on reddit! From prothero at earthednet.org Sat Aug 29 11:39:39 2015 From: prothero at earthednet.org (Earthednet-wp) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2015 08:39:39 -0700 Subject: A book for babies? In-Reply-To: <55E15D37.3000403@gmail.com> References: <55E15D37.3000403@gmail.com> Message-ID: Richmond, Your concerns are very valid, with LC still in the midst of lots of changes. Here are some immediate rambling thoughts, perhaps obvious, but for what they're worth.... I like the workbook format. Very appropriate. Ideally, it might be distributed as an ebook or app type book that can be easily updated. If the students need print (I would think they would), it's more difficult. But perhaps the book could be printed, workbook style, by the purchaser at a local print store (like Kinko's in the US). I don't know how this could be set up so you get income from it, though. Hmmm, I wonder if any of these "on demand" type print stores could do "one-offs" for individuals, from a server master. I haven't investigated this, but I think Kinko's does this in the US. Not sure if they can return royalties to the author. Sounds like an obvious service, tho so it might be worth investigating. I think it is a great idea to get a few folks to test it with their kids, and give feedback. It is bound to improve the book. Regarding being a tester, my contact with my 10yr old grandson varies depending on factors out of my control. If it looks like I would have regular contact, I'd love to try it out on him. No guarantee he would get into it, tho. My son is a 3'rd grade teacher and I might be able to interest him, but he is into (with his students) Lego Robotics, Scratch and Arduino (a bit). Best, Bill William Prothero http://es.earthednet.org > On Aug 29, 2015, at 12:20 AM, Richmond wrote: > > If you are*NOT* interested in teaching *small children* /LiveCode/ stop reading now. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Having taught a reasonably successful, relatively intensive course to *Primary level** > **children* during the summer, and starting a once-a-week thing in October I am quite > seriously thinking of putting together a *book* for Primary kids. > > This would *NOT* be full of theorising, and *NOT* like a 'standard' text book; rather a > hands-on cookery book. > > Obviously, a significant part of this book will be pictorial. > > HOWEVER . . . > > Seeing the vast and significant changes coming with *LiveCode 8.0.0.* > > [and, to be honest, all I taught the children was doable in LC 4.5] > > including its interface changes (at the moment I'm thinking of the *preferences** > **palette* and the *toolBar* stack) . . . > > I am really wondering what the point is, as, any book I start on now will either feature screen shots > of the *LC 7 interface* or the *LC 8 alpha interface*; both of which may go down the pan just as my book > is ready. > > ALSO . . . my course that will run from October to May will us LC 7 (especially as the LC 8 series is in a state > of flux) . . . so any extra stuff arising (and, with hindsight, I can see lots of gaps that need to be plugged) will > also be framed in terms of the LC 7 interface. > > As soon as a FIXED interface for LC 8 (???????) is released I will have to sit down and make myself > comfortable with it even before I start dishing it out either to kids in class or in the form of a book. > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > I should be glad of any advice, comments, and so on about my quandary. > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > In the light of some favourable responses I am wondering about releasing beta versions of my chapters under a non-disclosure > agreement to interested parties to torture their children with on the understanding that they will 'pay' for them by giving > me vigorous feedback. > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > In light of the discussions anent a possible 'unified IDE' ['that' picture], I also would like to know what chances > there are of that sort of thing being on the cards, whether it would be locked-in [heaven forfend] or optional, > and so on, as, were it to be present in LC 8.x.x it might be necessary to write a book with what could be termed > "a double feature" [think "Rocky Horror Show"] where almost every single screen shot has to be reduplicated > for the two interfaces . . . > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > I have no great desire to put together the sort of book I am talking about to find that it is outdated as soon as it comes off the presses. > > Richmond. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sat Aug 29 12:14:43 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2015 09:14:43 -0700 Subject: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55E1DA73.6070602@fourthworld.com> Kay C Lan wrote: > On Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 10:46 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > >> Kay C Lan wrote: >> a better mechanism to track the changes and transfer those back and >>> forth - that improvement can only be done from the mothership. >> >> What's needed? >> >> Let's make it so. > > Love the positive attitude :-) Just being selfish: I spend a lot of time in LC, so anything that helps make the workflow smoother benefits me. > From memory stsMLXEditor was written when the SE was a seperate animal to > the Debugger, hence: > > The external editor will not open a script if the IDE script editor window > is open. Should be fixable, likely something that can be changed in stsMLXEditor. > I think when the SE and Debugger merged stsMLXEditor became less useful > because it was no longer possible to have just the Debugger open and my TE. MetaCard when through a similar transition, and while some prefer it I don't. If nothing else, having one window designed to perform to different and distinctly complex tasks complicates the code, a lot. But also, once a debugger is made separate from an editor it can be used in contexts where editing may not be possible, such as debugging standalones. > I haven't had a look for quite a while, so maybe I need to give it another > whirl and see - although it looks as though a few others are giving it a go > so maybe they'll come up with some constructive criticisms. Please do. Your insights are often very valuable, and in this case the benefits nay extend beyond editor integration since at the heart of this is a question about inter-app communication, which has even broader applications. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sat Aug 29 12:18:37 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2015 09:18:37 -0700 Subject: [Bug] Red Dot Breakpoints Ignored - Recipe In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55E1DB5D.4090502@fourthworld.com> Kay C Lan wrote: > In line with a recent post I made mention of the fact that I don't > use Red Dot breakpoints as they are ignored too often. I know others > have had similar complaints. But in the interest of seeing if > improvements have been made I just had a go in LC 7.1 rc 1 on OS X > 10.9.5 and made the following discovery. > > New Mainstack with Script Debug Mode On. > Add a button > Add this script to the mouseUp handler of the button. > > repeat with x = 1 to 10 > add 1 to x > end repeat > beep > > Apply and click the button and confirm it beeps. > > Now add a Red Dot breakpoint at the line: add 1 to x > Add the following Breakpoint condition: x > 4 > Click the button and confirm the Debugger stops with x shown as 5 > > Now amend the condition to: x = 4 > Click the button and on my machine the Red Dot is ignored. > > Now amend the condition to: the quick brown fox > Click the button and on my machine the Red Dot is ignored. The bad news is that I was able to confirm that the "x=4" condition is ignored in the LC debugger. The good news is that the breakpoint triggers as expected when using an experimental debugger I'd written years ago. That debugger is very sparse by design, with very minimal features and relying heavily on native engine behavior. So it would seem the engine is fine, and all that's needed is some fix to the scripts in the IDE debugger. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From pete at lcsql.com Sat Aug 29 12:19:06 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2015 16:19:06 +0000 Subject: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card) In-Reply-To: <55E1DA73.6070602@fourthworld.com> References: <55E1DA73.6070602@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: I'm still in the early days of using the sts plugin but I believe the restriction on not having the script editor window open at the same time is to avoid clashes if edits are made to the same script in both places. On Sat, Aug 29, 2015 at 9:15 AM Richard Gaskin wrote: > Kay C Lan wrote: > > > On Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 10:46 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > > >> Kay C Lan wrote: > >> a better mechanism to track the changes and transfer those back and > >>> forth - that improvement can only be done from the mothership. > >> > >> What's needed? > >> > >> Let's make it so. > > > > Love the positive attitude :-) > > Just being selfish: I spend a lot of time in LC, so anything that helps > make the workflow smoother benefits me. > > > > From memory stsMLXEditor was written when the SE was a seperate animal to > > the Debugger, hence: > > > > The external editor will not open a script if the IDE script editor > window > > is open. > > Should be fixable, likely something that can be changed in stsMLXEditor. > > > > I think when the SE and Debugger merged stsMLXEditor became less useful > > because it was no longer possible to have just the Debugger open and my > TE. > > MetaCard when through a similar transition, and while some prefer it I > don't. If nothing else, having one window designed to perform to > different and distinctly complex tasks complicates the code, a lot. But > also, once a debugger is made separate from an editor it can be used in > contexts where editing may not be possible, such as debugging standalones. > > > > I haven't had a look for quite a while, so maybe I need to give it > another > > whirl and see - although it looks as though a few others are giving it a > go > > so maybe they'll come up with some constructive criticisms. > > Please do. Your insights are often very valuable, and in this case the > benefits nay extend beyond editor integration since at the heart of this > is a question about inter-app communication, which has even broader > applications. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sat Aug 29 13:56:11 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2015 10:56:11 -0700 Subject: [Bug] Red Dot Breakpoints Ignored - Recipe In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55E1F23B.2020602@ahsoftware.net> On 08/29/2015 03:53 AM, Kay C Lan wrote: > repeat with x = 1 to 10 > add 1 to x > end repeat > beep It's really not a good idea to try to mess with the loop index while it's running. Do this instead: put 1 into y repeat with x = 1 to 10 add 1 to y end repeat beep and set the break condition on the 'add 1 to y' line -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From scott at tactilemedia.com Sat Aug 29 14:43:19 2015 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2015 11:43:19 -0700 Subject: Font Number Conversion? Message-ID: Hi All: I'm struggling to to do some converting of Unicode icon font characters and am lost in number formats and representations. For example, a character can be represented in these forms: Decimal: 58880 Unicode: E600 HTML:  CSS: \f230 Does anyone know how the CSS number is derived? I've tried all manner of baseConvert, codepointToNum, etc, and the only result I've been able to achieve is a headache. I'm sure this is pretty straightforward but I'm not a numbers guy. Thanks in advance for any numerical enlightenment. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design From brahma at hindu.org Sat Aug 29 14:59:18 2015 From: brahma at hindu.org (Brahmanathaswami) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2015 08:59:18 -1000 Subject: Setting DefaultStack to TopStack does not make it's stack script available? Message-ID: <55E20106.6040802@hindu.org> 7.1 rc(1) I am trying to create some tools that can be used across many stacks. in some cases it's not completely generic and I want to have functions unique to scripts in the topstack to "fire" e.g. stack 1 : utilities.livecode # set to palette mode stack 2: topstack: myProject.livecode in Stack 1 we have this button: on mouseUp set the defaultstack to the topstack put the htmltext of fld "textcontent" into url ( "file://" & localPath() & "data/about-this-app.html") end mouseUp But I'm getting an error because Stack 1 (in palette mode) cannot find the function "localPath()" Is this a bug... I could have sworn before that if you set the defaultStack to the topstack then all it's scripts became part off of the message path. But not today... BR From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sat Aug 29 15:03:36 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2015 12:03:36 -0700 Subject: [Bug] Red Dot Breakpoints Ignored - Recipe In-Reply-To: <55E1F23B.2020602@ahsoftware.net> References: <55E1F23B.2020602@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <55E20208.7020500@fourthworld.com> Mark Wieder wrote: > On 08/29/2015 03:53 AM, Kay C Lan wrote: > >> repeat with x = 1 to 10 >> add 1 to x >> end repeat >> beep > > It's really not a good idea to try to mess with the loop index while > it's running. Do this instead: > > put 1 into y > repeat with x = 1 to 10 > add 1 to y > end repeat > beep Good catch, Mark. We can trace out the logic of the original with: on mouseUp repeat with x = 1 to 10 put x &cr after msg add 1 to x end repeat beep end mouseUp ...and get: 1 3 5 7 9 -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sat Aug 29 15:23:47 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2015 22:23:47 +0300 Subject: Font Number Conversion? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55E206C3.4050602@gmail.com> On 08/29/2015 09:43 PM, Scott Rossi wrote: > Hi All: > > I'm struggling to to do some converting of Unicode icon font characters > and am lost in number formats and representations. For example, a > character can be represented in these forms: > Decimal: 58880 > Unicode: E600 > HTML:  > CSS: \f230 > > Does anyone know how the CSS number is derived? I've tried all manner of > baseConvert, codepointToNum, etc, and the only result I've been able to > achieve is a headache. > > I'm sure this is pretty straightforward but I'm not a numbers guy. Thanks > in advance for any numerical enlightenment. > > Regards, > > I don't understand CSS either; but I found this for those of us who cannot be bothered: https://www.evotech.net/articles/testjsentities.html Richmond. From brahma at hindu.org Sat Aug 29 15:39:21 2015 From: brahma at hindu.org (Brahmanathaswami) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2015 09:39:21 -1000 Subject: More TopStack-DefaultStack Mysterious - TraveralOn (false) Selection lost? Message-ID: <55E20A69.7030003@hindu.org> 7.1.rc 1 I could have sworn this used to work: make stack # Call it no. 1 "utilities" create button set traversalON of the button to "false" on mouseUp set the defaultstack to the topStack put selectedChunk() end mouseUp set stack 1 to palette mode. go to stack 2 with text in a field selected in the utilities stack... click the button: even though the traversal is set to false for the button the text selection in the top stack field is lost /de-selected result char 1 to 0 of fld 1 ?? BR From richmondmathewson at gmail.com Sat Aug 29 15:41:46 2015 From: richmondmathewson at gmail.com (Richmond) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2015 22:41:46 +0300 Subject: Font Number Conversion? In-Reply-To: <55E206C3.4050602@gmail.com> References: <55E206C3.4050602@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55E20AFA.3030807@gmail.com> On 08/29/2015 10:23 PM, Richmond wrote: > On 08/29/2015 09:43 PM, Scott Rossi wrote: >> Hi All: >> >> I'm struggling to to do some converting of Unicode icon font characters >> and am lost in number formats and representations. For example, a >> character can be represented in these forms: >> Decimal: 58880 >> Unicode: E600 >> HTML:  >> CSS: \f230 >> >> Does anyone know how the CSS number is derived? I've tried all >> manner of >> baseConvert, codepointToNum, etc, and the only result I've been able to >> achieve is a headache. >> >> I'm sure this is pretty straightforward but I'm not a numbers guy. >> Thanks >> in advance for any numerical enlightenment. >> >> Regards, >> >> > > I don't understand CSS either; but I found this for those > of us who cannot be bothered: > > https://www.evotech.net/articles/testjsentities.html > > Richmond. https://www.unicod.es/ From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sat Aug 29 16:23:17 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2015 13:23:17 -0700 Subject: More TopStack-DefaultStack Mysterious - TraveralOn (false) Selection lost? In-Reply-To: <55E20A69.7030003@hindu.org> References: <55E20A69.7030003@hindu.org> Message-ID: <55E214B5.1020706@fourthworld.com> Brahmanathaswami wrote: > 7.1.rc 1 > > I could have sworn this used to work: > > make stack # Call it no. 1 "utilities" > create button > set traversalON of the button to "false" > > on mouseUp > set the defaultstack to the topStack > put selectedChunk() > end mouseUp > > set stack 1 to palette mode. > > go to stack 2 with text in a field selected > > in the utilities stack... click the button: even though the > traversal is set to false for the button the text selection in > the top stack field is lost /de-selected result > > char 1 to 0 of fld 1 > > ?? Works here, and given how much of the IDE relies on that sort of thing I'd be surprised it a regression survived release. Have you double-checked the palette mode, and the button's traversalOn? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From bonnmike at gmail.com Sat Aug 29 16:55:23 2015 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2015 14:55:23 -0600 Subject: More TopStack-DefaultStack Mysterious - TraveralOn (false) Selection lost? In-Reply-To: <55E214B5.1020706@fourthworld.com> References: <55E20A69.7030003@hindu.org> <55E214B5.1020706@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Seems like this has been the way it is in osx as long as I can remember, but it does seem like the no traversal/palette tool stack would solve it. Works fine in windows. On Sat, Aug 29, 2015 at 2:23 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Brahmanathaswami wrote: > > > 7.1.rc 1 > > > > I could have sworn this used to work: > > > > make stack # Call it no. 1 "utilities" > > create button > > set traversalON of the button to "false" > > > > on mouseUp > > set the defaultstack to the topStack > > put selectedChunk() > > end mouseUp > > > > set stack 1 to palette mode. > > > > go to stack 2 with text in a field selected > > > > in the utilities stack... click the button: even though the > > traversal is set to false for the button the text selection in > > the top stack field is lost /de-selected result > > > > char 1 to 0 of fld 1 > > > > ?? > > Works here, and given how much of the IDE relies on that sort of thing I'd > be surprised it a regression survived release. > > Have you double-checked the palette mode, and the button's traversalOn? > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From monte at sweattechnologies.com Sat Aug 29 18:05:36 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2015 08:05:36 +1000 Subject: Script Editor future (was Open Source Kickstarter Report Card) In-Reply-To: References: <55E0742A.70307@fourthworld.com> <065488f109ee63f061f1b2e659b4fb17@livecode.com> <0442D7CD-593F-4037-9CE6-81C9B9CA5783@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <637B3454-5768-4413-AC9D-48C1CECE498B@sweattechnologies.com> > On 29 Aug 2015, at 10:22 pm, Peter TB Brett wrote: > > This looks like the sort of thing that's best off being looked at by Mark Waddingham. Unfortunately my last day before my annual holiday is the day before he gets back from his annual holiday, so I'm not going to be able to bring this up with him for at least a couple of weeks. Can I suggest that you e-mail him directly? I?ll just wait for Mark to get back. It?s a simple one but there?s obviously dire consequences for your stack objects if you set the scriptOnly to true so I?d like to get the nod before bothering. The engine forum has gone fairly quiet lately but the original idea was we would propose stuff we wanted to do then get the nod on syntax and whether it would be accepted if we did it etc. It may be that script only stacks are short term and the long term plan is not to have these scripts be stacks but update start using, back|front script and behavior to point to files rater than objects. Is that why they aren?t documented? > > Or just submit a PR on GitHub, that'll make sure it doesn't get forgotten about. ;-) I actually had some PRs that were forgotten about although I think both of them have now or will in the future at least become irrelevant because of widgets. From peter.brett at livecode.com Sat Aug 29 18:24:10 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2015 23:24:10 +0100 Subject: Script-only stacks [was: Re: Script Editor future] In-Reply-To: <637B3454-5768-4413-AC9D-48C1CECE498B@sweattechnologies.com> References: <55E0742A.70307@fourthworld.com> <065488f109ee63f061f1b2e659b4fb17@livecode.com> <0442D7CD-593F-4037-9CE6-81C9B9CA5783@sweattechnologies.com> <637B3454-5768-4413-AC9D-48C1CECE498B@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <5f4920778016378a495c6bfca77de58c@livecode.com> On 2015-08-29 23:05, Monte Goulding wrote: >> On 29 Aug 2015, at 10:22 pm, Peter TB Brett >> wrote: >> >> This looks like the sort of thing that's best off being looked at by >> Mark Waddingham. Unfortunately my last day before my annual holiday >> is the day before he gets back from his annual holiday, so I'm not >> going to be able to bring this up with him for at least a couple of >> weeks. Can I suggest that you e-mail him directly? > > I?ll just wait for Mark to get back. It?s a simple one but there?s > obviously dire consequences for your stack objects if you set the > scriptOnly to true so I?d like to get the nod before bothering. The > engine forum has gone fairly quiet lately but the original idea was we > would propose stuff we wanted to do then get the nod on syntax and > whether it would be accepted if we did it etc. It may be that script > only stacks are short term and the long term plan is not to have these > scripts be stacks but update start using, back|front script and > behavior to point to files rater than objects. Is that why they aren?t > documented? I *think* Mark will be back in the office on Monday, so he'll probably see this exchange At the moment I usually treat normal stacks and script-only stacks as totally different things. I think of normal stacks as places for UI and trivial glue code, and script-only stacks as places for complex handler libraries and behaviours. They have different filenames too (.livecode vs .livecodescript). My instinct is that adding a way to switch a stack back and forth between normal and script-only isn't very intuitive, and could cause "dire consequences" as you suggest. On the other hand, having a *read only* scriptOnly property (or some equivalent) sounds like it could be pretty useful. We *really* need documentation with more structure. I can't remember how one tests what sort of object something is, and the dictionary isn't giving me any hints... >> Or just submit a PR on GitHub, that'll make sure it doesn't get >> forgotten about. ;-) > > I actually had some PRs that were forgotten about although I think > both of them have now or will in the future at least become irrelevant > because of widgets. Oops, sorry. I shouldn't let these things slip through the cracks. It's a lot easier now that there's a defined process for accepting contributions! The processes for community contributors and LiveCode employees are now pretty much the same -- the only two differences are that 1) we still can't accept binary stack changes directly (sorry :-/) and 2) employees don't have to sign the CLA. If you've got some PRs that have been overlooked about but which are still relevant, let me know and I'll try and make sure they get looked at... Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Open Source Team LiveCode on reddit! From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sat Aug 29 18:41:09 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2015 15:41:09 -0700 Subject: [Bug] Red Dot Breakpoints Ignored - Recipe In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55E23505.2000404@ahsoftware.net> On 08/29/2015 03:53 AM, Kay C Lan wrote: > I expected to find a Bug Report at the QCC but nothing stuck out. I know > that this has been a long standing issue so can: > > a) you confirm that you see this too > b) suggest an appropriate bug number to add my findings. That said, the way LiveCode deals with breakpoint conditions is pretty screwy. If you apply a condition to a breakpoint, it it stored in a custom property of the stack. When a breakpoint occurs, the conditions are checked. But they're global to the stack. Try this: on mouseUp put 1 into x repeat with y = 1 to 10 add 1 to x end repeat end mouseUp on grunt put 1 into x repeat with y = 1 to 10 add 1 to x end repeat end grunt Now set breakpoints on both add lines, and add a condition to only the second line: x > 3 Click the button and the breakpoint fires only when the condition is met, even though you set it for a different line. It's not so much a bug as a systemic failure, because in order to change the behavior the script editor and debugger would have to change what they do in some seriously wide-sweeping ways. The oddest part to me is that there's already a mechanism in the engine for dealing with this, but the IDE doesn't use it. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sat Aug 29 19:00:18 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2015 16:00:18 -0700 Subject: [Bug] Red Dot Breakpoints Ignored - Recipe In-Reply-To: <55E23505.2000404@ahsoftware.net> References: <55E23505.2000404@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <55E23982.8020806@fourthworld.com> Mark Wieder wrote: > The oddest part to me is that there's already a mechanism in the > engine for dealing with this, but the IDE doesn't use it. What is that mechanism? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ali.lloyd at livecode.com Sat Aug 29 19:04:34 2015 From: ali.lloyd at livecode.com (Ali Lloyd) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2015 23:04:34 +0000 Subject: Script-only stacks [was: Re: Script Editor future] In-Reply-To: <5f4920778016378a495c6bfca77de58c@livecode.com> References: <55E0742A.70307@fourthworld.com> <065488f109ee63f061f1b2e659b4fb17@livecode.com> <0442D7CD-593F-4037-9CE6-81C9B9CA5783@sweattechnologies.com> <637B3454-5768-4413-AC9D-48C1CECE498B@sweattechnologies.com> <5f4920778016378a495c6bfca77de58c@livecode.com> Message-ID: I agree that any scriptOnly property should be read-only, thus eliminating any potential dire consequences. After all, you can easily lossily scriptify a stack by creating a new script-only and setting the script to another one. Whilst I agree that the main use of script only stacks should be for behaviors and libraries, in the IDE we are using script-only stacks as UI as well - after all it is only a small additional step if you are using resize handlers to also have the stack create the UI elements when it opens. On Sat, Aug 29, 2015 at 11:24 PM Peter TB Brett wrote: > On 2015-08-29 23:05, Monte Goulding wrote: > >> On 29 Aug 2015, at 10:22 pm, Peter TB Brett > >> wrote: > >> > >> This looks like the sort of thing that's best off being looked at by > >> Mark Waddingham. Unfortunately my last day before my annual holiday > >> is the day before he gets back from his annual holiday, so I'm not > >> going to be able to bring this up with him for at least a couple of > >> weeks. Can I suggest that you e-mail him directly? > > > > I?ll just wait for Mark to get back. It?s a simple one but there?s > > obviously dire consequences for your stack objects if you set the > > scriptOnly to true so I?d like to get the nod before bothering. The > > engine forum has gone fairly quiet lately but the original idea was we > > would propose stuff we wanted to do then get the nod on syntax and > > whether it would be accepted if we did it etc. It may be that script > > only stacks are short term and the long term plan is not to have these > > scripts be stacks but update start using, back|front script and > > behavior to point to files rater than objects. Is that why they aren?t > > documented? > > I *think* Mark will be back in the office on Monday, so he'll probably > see this exchange > > At the moment I usually treat normal stacks and script-only stacks as > totally different things. I think of normal stacks as places for UI and > trivial glue code, and script-only stacks as places for complex handler > libraries and behaviours. They have different filenames too (.livecode > vs .livecodescript). My instinct is that adding a way to switch a stack > back and forth between normal and script-only isn't very intuitive, and > could cause "dire consequences" as you suggest. On the other hand, > having a *read only* scriptOnly property (or some equivalent) sounds > like it could be pretty useful. > > We *really* need documentation with more structure. I can't remember > how one tests what sort of object something is, and the dictionary isn't > giving me any hints... > > >> Or just submit a PR on GitHub, that'll make sure it doesn't get > >> forgotten about. ;-) > > > > I actually had some PRs that were forgotten about although I think > > both of them have now or will in the future at least become irrelevant > > because of widgets. > > Oops, sorry. I shouldn't let these things slip through the cracks. > It's a lot easier now that there's a defined process for accepting > contributions! The processes for community contributors and LiveCode > employees are now pretty much the same -- the only two differences are > that 1) we still can't accept binary stack changes directly (sorry :-/) > and 2) employees don't have to sign the CLA. > > If you've got some PRs that have been overlooked about but which are > still relevant, let me know and I'll try and make sure they get looked > at... > > Peter > > -- > Dr Peter Brett > LiveCode Open Source Team > > LiveCode on reddit! > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From monte at sweattechnologies.com Sat Aug 29 19:28:08 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2015 09:28:08 +1000 Subject: Script-only stacks [was: Re: Script Editor future] In-Reply-To: <5f4920778016378a495c6bfca77de58c@livecode.com> References: <55E0742A.70307@fourthworld.com> <065488f109ee63f061f1b2e659b4fb17@livecode.com> <0442D7CD-593F-4037-9CE6-81C9B9CA5783@sweattechnologies.com> <637B3454-5768-4413-AC9D-48C1CECE498B@sweattechnologies.com> <5f4920778016378a495c6bfca77de58c@livecode.com> Message-ID: <93CC3508-E3E1-4F16-8213-BDBC11023CC5@sweattechnologies.com> > On 30 Aug 2015, at 8:24 am, Peter TB Brett wrote: > > I *think* Mark will be back in the office on Monday, so he'll probably see this exchange > > At the moment I usually treat normal stacks and script-only stacks as totally different things. I think of normal stacks as places for UI and trivial glue code, and script-only stacks as places for complex handler libraries and behaviours. They have different filenames too (.livecode vs .livecodescript). My instinct is that adding a way to switch a stack back and forth between normal and script-only isn't very intuitive, and could cause "dire consequences" as you suggest. On the other hand, having a *read only* scriptOnly property (or some equivalent) sounds like it could be pretty useful. The only use case I could think of for making it a writable property was for the standalone builder to support password protecting them by making them stacks but you could work around this by supporting password protection on script only stacks I guess or as Ali suggests just copy from one stack to the other, delete the original from memory and then set the name and save? Mind you we can do dangerous things with our code all the time so I don?t really think we need an nanny for this one... just some docs. > >>> Or just submit a PR on GitHub, that'll make sure it doesn't get forgotten about. ;-) >> I actually had some PRs that were forgotten about although I think >> both of them have now or will in the future at least become irrelevant >> because of widgets. > > Oops, sorry. I shouldn't let these things slip through the cracks. It's a lot easier now that there's a defined process for accepting contributions! The processes for community contributors and LiveCode employees are now pretty much the same -- the only two differences are that 1) we still can't accept binary stack changes directly (sorry :-/) and 2) employees don't have to sign the CLA. > > If you've got some PRs that have been overlooked about but which are still relevant, let me know and I'll try and make sure they get looked at... It was very early days. Well before Peter so don?t worry ;-) I think they were closed when the multiple develop branches thing happened and I didn?t bother to reopen because they already seemed no longer relevant unless there?s still folks that think custom controls have a future in a widgets world... From pete at lcsql.com Sat Aug 29 19:33:02 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2015 23:33:02 +0000 Subject: Goodbye stsMLXEditor Message-ID: Did lots of script editing in Textmate today via stsMXL plugin. Saved several times along the way, quit TextMate and Livecode. Next time I ran Livecode, all my edits were gone. Maybe it needed a final save or something but should have received warnings if so. Back to the IDE SE for me From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sat Aug 29 19:51:02 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2015 16:51:02 -0700 Subject: Goodbye stsMLXEditor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55E24566.8040106@fourthworld.com> Peter Haworth wrote: > Did lots of script editing in Textmate today via stsMXL plugin. Saved > several times along the way, quit TextMate and Livecode. Next time I > ran Livecode, all my edits were gone. Maybe it needed a final save or > something but should have received warnings if so. > > Back to the IDE SE for me There's nothing magic about editing scripts. Whether the script is copied out of an object into a text field or into a temp file, the sequence is largely the same: an editScript message initiates the action, and a "set script" command puts the script back into the object it came from. It may well be that the very old stsMXL plugin could use an update, but for those who like using external editors I would encourage considering it as a useful starting point for a solution that can be every bit as robust as using a text field. Voodoo need not apply; just get a script and set a script, and what happens in between can be done by any means you prefer. If your edits were indeed put back into the objects you thought you were editing, and the stack those objects were in was indeed saved, something else went wrong. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From brahma at hindu.org Sat Aug 29 20:32:54 2015 From: brahma at hindu.org (Brahmanathaswami) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2015 14:32:54 -1000 Subject: More TopStack-DefaultStack Mysterious - TraveralOn (false) Selection lost? In-Reply-To: <55E214B5.1020706@fourthworld.com> References: <55E20A69.7030003@hindu.org> <55E214B5.1020706@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <55E24F36.9040003@hindu.org> I think I found a very obscure bug. i created another palatte stack with my button... it works as expected. So there is was something different about my my utilities stack... well ...it has a field object on it "Monitor-log" this field had it's traversalOn set to true, autotab is off. even when I set the entire stack to mode 4 "palette" even just clicking on the background of the stack causes the top stack to lose it's selection.. if I delete that field OR set the traversalOn of the field to "false" then the problem disappears... behavior is as expected... Palette my utilities stack like this: on mouseUp set the defaultstack to the topStack put selectedChunk() end mouseUp now reports: char 468 to 488 of field 1 # correct... from the top stack go back to my utilities stack.. set the traversalOn of the field back to "true" and voila... even if the stack is palette mode, touching the stack will steal the focus back from the topStack. ergo: The very presence of a field on the card that has "traversalOn=True" will cause the palette stack to take the focus, even if your button is set to "traversalOn=false".. Perhaps this is "as expected" the work around now is, in my toggle mode button on the utilities stack: on mouseup if the mode of this stack is 4 then toplevel this stack set the traversalOn of fld "monitor-log" to true else palette this stack set the traversalOn of fld "monitor-log" to false end if end mouseup I think what is happening is: even though Auto tab is off, if you have a field exposed on a card and go to that card the cursor "jumps" into the field... not matter what mode the stack is in... Should I report this? Richard Gaskin wrote: Works here, and given how much of the IDE relies on that sort of thing I'd be surprised it a regression survived release. Have you double-checked the palette mode, and the button's traversalOn? > Brahmanathaswami wrote: > > > 7.1.rc 1 > > > > I could have sworn this used to work: > > > > make stack # Call it no. 1 "utilities" > > create button > > set traversalON of the button to "false" > > > > on mouseUp > > set the defaultstack to the topStack > > put selectedChunk() > > end mouseUp > > > > set stack 1 to palette mode. > > > > go to stack 2 with text in a field selected > > > > in the utilities stack... click the button: even though the > > traversal is set to false for the button the text selection in > > the top stack field is lost /de-selected result > > > > char 1 to 0 of fld 1 > > > > ?? > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sat Aug 29 20:34:14 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2015 17:34:14 -0700 Subject: [ANN]SoCal LiveCode Meeting, Sept 3 Message-ID: <55E24F86.3030408@fourthworld.com> The next meeting of the SoCal LiveCode User Group is coming up on Thursday, Sept 3 in Pasadena at 7PM. IMPORTANT: The meeting is being held at our new location, Du-par's Restaurant, on S. Lake Avenue near Cordova Street: Du-par's Pasadena, back room 214 S. Lake Ave. Pasadena, CA 91101 Meeting details in the forum: Trevor DeVore will be joining us that evening, so it should be an especially good time. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sat Aug 29 20:49:38 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2015 17:49:38 -0700 Subject: More TopStack-DefaultStack Mysterious - TraveralOn (false) Selection lost? In-Reply-To: <55E24F36.9040003@hindu.org> References: <55E24F36.9040003@hindu.org> Message-ID: <55E25322.3090002@fourthworld.com> Brahmanathaswami wrote: > I think what is happening is: even though Auto tab is off, if you have > a field exposed on a card and go to that card the cursor "jumps" into > the field... not matter what mode the stack is in... > > Should I report this? I'm sure they're aware of it. The bigger question is: do we want to change it? As far back as I can remember we've had that behavior, presumably implemented as a convenience for developers since in most cases an editable field is for, well, editing, so when the window gets focus the first editable field gets focus. Sounds good in theory, but more than a few of us have had occasion to need to work around it, sometimes more easily done than others (the engine can be very insistent when it want to be). So we have to ask ourselves: do we want to have to explicitly script all field focus when a stack window gets focus? Will developers find that annoying to have to write, or feel liberated no longer having to write workaround when the current behavior isn't what they want? Personally I think there are bigger fish to fry (man, it would so cool if I could just copy and paste text on Linux, or have an option control with a label that could be read, or a text baseline on ostensibly "standard" buttons that's actually in a standard position), but maybe this is important to some... -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From brahma at hindu.org Sat Aug 29 22:00:56 2015 From: brahma at hindu.org (Brahmanathaswami) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2015 16:00:56 -1000 Subject: More TopStack-DefaultStack Mysterious - TraveralOn (false) Selection lost? In-Reply-To: <55E25322.3090002@fourthworld.com> References: <55E24F36.9040003@hindu.org> <55E25322.3090002@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <55E263D8.7010605@hindu.org> Agreed... ideally it would be some how documented... otherwise the presumption is if autotab is not checked for a field there is no reason for the engine to "insist" that the cursor go there if the traversal is true. but, yes... there are bigger fish to fry. -- Swasti Astu, Be Well! Brahmanathaswami Kauai's Hindu Monastery www.HimalayanAcademy.com Richard Gaskin wrote: > > Personally I think there are bigger fish to fry (man, it would so cool > if I could just copy and paste text on Linux, or have an option > control with a label that could be read, or a text baseline on > ostensibly "standard" buttons that's actually in a standard position), > but maybe this is important to some... From scott at tactilemedia.com Sat Aug 29 22:07:53 2015 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2015 19:07:53 -0700 Subject: Font Number Conversion? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Answering my own question: Turns out there were two versions of the font I was looking at, with characters ordered differently internally. [sigh] Nice waste of time and loss of hair on this one. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design On 8/29/15, 11:43 AM, "Scott Rossi" wrote: >Hi All: > >I'm struggling to to do some converting of Unicode icon font characters >and am lost in number formats and representations. For example, a >character can be represented in these forms: >Decimal: 58880 >Unicode: E600 >HTML:  >CSS: \f230 > >Does anyone know how the CSS number is derived? I've tried all manner of >baseConvert, codepointToNum, etc, and the only result I've been able to >achieve is a headache. > >I'm sure this is pretty straightforward but I'm not a numbers guy. >Thanks >in advance for any numerical enlightenment. > >Regards, > >Scott Rossi >Creative Director >Tactile Media, UX/UI Design From ambassador at fourthworld.com Sat Aug 29 23:00:22 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2015 20:00:22 -0700 Subject: More TopStack-DefaultStack Mysterious - TraveralOn (false) Selection lost? In-Reply-To: <55E263D8.7010605@hindu.org> References: <55E263D8.7010605@hindu.org> Message-ID: <55E271C6.2080801@fourthworld.com> Brahmanathaswami wrote: > Agreed... ideally it would be some how documented... Ah, but that's the hard part: where? For all I know it may even be documented already, but I can't imagine where I might go to learn about it. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Sat Aug 29 23:47:27 2015 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2015 11:47:27 +0800 Subject: [Bug] Red Dot Breakpoints Ignored - Recipe In-Reply-To: <55E1F23B.2020602@ahsoftware.net> References: <55E1F23B.2020602@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 1:56 AM, Mark Wieder wrote: It's really not a good idea to try to mess with the loop index while it's > running. Do this instead: > > put 1 into y > repeat with x = 1 to 10 > add 1 to y > end repeat > beep > > and set the break condition on the 'add 1 to y' line Yes, good catch, except if I do add the breakpoint at 'add 1 to y' and create the condition: (x = 4 or (x = "7) The debugger does not stop because the condtion isn't invalid but it doesn't tell me that - well it didn't use to but now I know that a reason that Red Dots are ignored is because of a mistake in my conditional statement it will trigger me to load it into the msg box and see if it works. What is the bug number for Red Dots ignored, I'd like to add my thoughts that after clicking the Ok button on the conditional statement that a validity check MUST be carried out. Surely this must be one of the reasons for user frustration with Red Dots. From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Sat Aug 29 23:52:29 2015 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2015 11:52:29 +0800 Subject: [Bug] Red Dot Breakpoints Ignored - Recipe In-Reply-To: References: <55E1F23B.2020602@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 11:47 AM, Kay C Lan wrote: > because the condtion isn't invalid but it... > because the condition isn't valid or because the condition is invalid as you can see I even need a syntax checker for my own emails before I push the Send button. No wonder Red Dots don't work for me ;-( From ali.lloyd at livecode.com Sun Aug 30 03:19:29 2015 From: ali.lloyd at livecode.com (Ali Lloyd) Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2015 07:19:29 +0000 Subject: Script-only stacks [was: Re: Script Editor future] In-Reply-To: <93CC3508-E3E1-4F16-8213-BDBC11023CC5@sweattechnologies.com> References: <55E0742A.70307@fourthworld.com> <065488f109ee63f061f1b2e659b4fb17@livecode.com> <0442D7CD-593F-4037-9CE6-81C9B9CA5783@sweattechnologies.com> <637B3454-5768-4413-AC9D-48C1CECE498B@sweattechnologies.com> <5f4920778016378a495c6bfca77de58c@livecode.com> <93CC3508-E3E1-4F16-8213-BDBC11023CC5@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: Ah yes, I see what you mean. It would be very handy for that case. Another option would be a variant of the save command, like save pStack as [(script only | binary) stack] pFilename On Sun, 30 Aug 2015 at 00:28, Monte Goulding wrote: > > > On 30 Aug 2015, at 8:24 am, Peter TB Brett > wrote: > > > > I *think* Mark will be back in the office on Monday, so he'll probably > see this exchange > > > > At the moment I usually treat normal stacks and script-only stacks as > totally different things. I think of normal stacks as places for UI and > trivial glue code, and script-only stacks as places for complex handler > libraries and behaviours. They have different filenames too (.livecode vs > .livecodescript). My instinct is that adding a way to switch a stack back > and forth between normal and script-only isn't very intuitive, and could > cause "dire consequences" as you suggest. On the other hand, having a > *read only* scriptOnly property (or some equivalent) sounds like it could > be pretty useful. > > The only use case I could think of for making it a writable property was > for the standalone builder to support password protecting them by making > them stacks but you could work around this by supporting password > protection on script only stacks I guess or as Ali suggests just copy from > one stack to the other, delete the original from memory and then set the > name and save? Mind you we can do dangerous things with our code all the > time so I don?t really think we need an nanny for this one... just some > docs. > > > > >>> Or just submit a PR on GitHub, that'll make sure it doesn't get > forgotten about. ;-) > >> I actually had some PRs that were forgotten about although I think > >> both of them have now or will in the future at least become irrelevant > >> because of widgets. > > > > Oops, sorry. I shouldn't let these things slip through the cracks. > It's a lot easier now that there's a defined process for accepting > contributions! The processes for community contributors and LiveCode > employees are now pretty much the same -- the only two differences are that > 1) we still can't accept binary stack changes directly (sorry :-/) and 2) > employees don't have to sign the CLA. > > > > If you've got some PRs that have been overlooked about but which are > still relevant, let me know and I'll try and make sure they get looked at... > > It was very early days. Well before Peter so don?t worry ;-) > I think they were closed when the multiple develop branches thing happened > and I didn?t bother to reopen because they already seemed no longer > relevant unless there?s still folks that think custom controls have a > future in a widgets world... > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From monte at sweattechnologies.com Sun Aug 30 04:16:21 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2015 18:16:21 +1000 Subject: Script-only stacks [was: Re: Script Editor future] In-Reply-To: References: <55E0742A.70307@fourthworld.com> <065488f109ee63f061f1b2e659b4fb17@livecode.com> <0442D7CD-593F-4037-9CE6-81C9B9CA5783@sweattechnologies.com> <637B3454-5768-4413-AC9D-48C1CECE498B@sweattechnologies.com> <5f4920778016378a495c6bfca77de58c@livecode.com> <93CC3508-E3E1-4F16-8213-BDBC11023CC5@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: I guess so although that also has the same risk as a writable scriptOnly property so it seems to me we might as well run with the property and some documented warnings about losing objects and custom properties when setting it to true. The other use case (which is similar) is someone transitioning to script only stacks as it would save a significant amount of creating new stacks with different names, cutting, pasting, deleting old stack, renaming and saving... I think in both cases the writable scriptOnly property is simpler. It probably only needs to be an IDE engine property as I can't imagine a use case for it in a standalone. Cheers Monte Sent from my iPhone > On 30 Aug 2015, at 5:19 pm, Ali Lloyd wrote: > > Ah yes, I see what you mean. It would be very handy for that case. Another > option would be a variant of the save command, like > > save pStack as [(script only | binary) stack] pFilename From ali.lloyd at livecode.com Sun Aug 30 04:38:13 2015 From: ali.lloyd at livecode.com (Ali Lloyd) Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2015 08:38:13 +0000 Subject: Script-only stacks [was: Re: Script Editor future] In-Reply-To: References: <55E0742A.70307@fourthworld.com> <065488f109ee63f061f1b2e659b4fb17@livecode.com> <0442D7CD-593F-4037-9CE6-81C9B9CA5783@sweattechnologies.com> <637B3454-5768-4413-AC9D-48C1CECE498B@sweattechnologies.com> <5f4920778016378a495c6bfca77de58c@livecode.com> <93CC3508-E3E1-4F16-8213-BDBC11023CC5@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: The only place I see it as higher risk than a command is in the property inspector. But perhaps making it not modifiable from the property inspector is enough insulation. On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 9:16 AM Monte Goulding wrote: > I guess so although that also has the same risk as a writable scriptOnly > property so it seems to me we might as well run with the property and some > documented warnings about losing objects and custom properties when setting > it to true. > > The other use case (which is similar) is someone transitioning to script > only stacks as it would save a significant amount of creating new stacks > with different names, cutting, pasting, deleting old stack, renaming and > saving... > > I think in both cases the writable scriptOnly property is simpler. It > probably only needs to be an IDE engine property as I can't imagine a use > case for it in a standalone. > > Cheers > > Monte > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On 30 Aug 2015, at 5:19 pm, Ali Lloyd wrote: > > > > Ah yes, I see what you mean. It would be very handy for that case. > Another > > option would be a variant of the save command, like > > > > save pStack as [(script only | binary) stack] pFilename > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From monte at sweattechnologies.com Sun Aug 30 04:42:59 2015 From: monte at sweattechnologies.com (Monte Goulding) Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2015 18:42:59 +1000 Subject: Script-only stacks [was: Re: Script Editor future] In-Reply-To: References: <55E0742A.70307@fourthworld.com> <065488f109ee63f061f1b2e659b4fb17@livecode.com> <0442D7CD-593F-4037-9CE6-81C9B9CA5783@sweattechnologies.com> <637B3454-5768-4413-AC9D-48C1CECE498B@sweattechnologies.com> <5f4920778016378a495c6bfca77de58c@livecode.com> <93CC3508-E3E1-4F16-8213-BDBC11023CC5@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: Ah yeah I wasn't thinking it would even appear there. Sent from my iPhone > On 30 Aug 2015, at 6:38 pm, Ali Lloyd wrote: > > The only place I see it as higher risk than a command is in the property > inspector. But perhaps making it not modifiable from the property inspector > is enough insulation. From smudge.andy at googlemail.com Sun Aug 30 04:43:43 2015 From: smudge.andy at googlemail.com (AndyP) Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2015 01:43:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Script-only stacks [was: Re: Script Editor future] In-Reply-To: References: <065488f109ee63f061f1b2e659b4fb17@livecode.com> <0442D7CD-593F-4037-9CE6-81C9B9CA5783@sweattechnologies.com> <637B3454-5768-4413-AC9D-48C1CECE498B@sweattechnologies.com> <5f4920778016378a495c6bfca77de58c@livecode.com> <93CC3508-E3E1-4F16-8213-BDBC11023CC5@sweattechnologies.com> Message-ID: <1440924223283-4695770.post@n4.nabble.com> Script only looks interesting, and I'm wondering if this concept could be extended further? If there was a mechanism to seamlessly switch between script only and GUI construction, so that one could build with the GUI and as one builds a companion script only representation of your build is created, this would have to work the other way round so that changes to the properties of GUI elements in the companion script are reflected in the GUI version. With this arrangement, using git and external editors becomes easier to integrate with the added benefit that one could implement a 2 save option, saving a GUI version and a script only version of your stacks to different locations at the same time. I'm not in the same league as Monte so I have no idea if this is doable. Just throwing it out as an idea:-) ----- Andy Piddock My software never has bugs. It just develops random features. Copy the new cloud space, get your free 15GB space now: Get Copy Script editor Themer for LC http://2108.co.uk PointandSee is a FREE simple but full featured under cursor colour picker / finder. http://www.pointandsee.co.uk - made with LiveCode -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Script-Editor-future-was-Open-Source-Kickstarter-Report-Card-tp4695616p4695770.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From peter.brett at livecode.com Sun Aug 30 05:24:38 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2015 11:24:38 +0200 Subject: Script-only stacks [was: Re: Script Editor future] In-Reply-To: <1440924223283-4695770.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <065488f109ee63f061f1b2e659b4fb17@livecode.com> <0442D7CD-593F-4037-9CE6-81C9B9CA5783@sweattechnologies.com> <637B3454-5768-4413-AC9D-48C1CECE498B@sweattechnologies.com> <5f4920778016378a495c6bfca77de58c@livecode.com> <93CC3508-E3E1-4F16-8213-BDBC11023CC5@sweattechnologies.com> <1440924223283-4695770.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: On 2015-08-30 10:43, AndyP wrote: > Script only looks interesting, and I'm wondering if this concept could > be > extended further? > > If there was a mechanism to seamlessly switch between script only and > GUI > construction, so that one could build with the GUI and as one builds a > companion script only representation of your build is created, this > would > have to work the other way round so that changes to the properties of > GUI > elements in the companion script are reflected in the GUI version. This already exists! It's called the Business Application Framework. Peter :-) -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Open Source Team LiveCode on reddit! From peter.brett at livecode.com Sun Aug 30 09:03:06 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2015 15:03:06 +0200 Subject: LiveCode Builder without the LiveCode bit Message-ID: <147aabd7c49bc4c9b383acd33dadc28d@livecode.com> Hi all, I wrote a blog post with a brief introduction to writing, compiling and running LCB-only programs. http://blog.peter-b.co.uk/2015/08/livecode-builder-without-livecode-bit.html If you write any little LCB-only programs, please let me know. I'd love to see what people do with this capability. Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Open Source Team LiveCode on reddit! From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sun Aug 30 09:28:51 2015 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2015 09:28:51 -0400 Subject: textWrangler and liveCodeBuilder.plist Message-ID: I've been messing with 8 since whenever dp1 came out, but I still can't get liveCodeBuilder.plist to work with textWrangler. Does anyone else have it working? I have it in ~/Library/Application Support/TextWrangler/Language Modules/ -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sun Aug 30 14:12:40 2015 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2015 14:12:40 -0400 Subject: LiveCode Builder without the LiveCode bit In-Reply-To: <147aabd7c49bc4c9b383acd33dadc28d@livecode.com> References: <147aabd7c49bc4c9b383acd33dadc28d@livecode.com> Message-ID: That doesn't suck. Now I have more to tinker with... On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 9:03 AM, Peter TB Brett wrote: > Hi all, > > I wrote a blog post with a brief introduction to writing, compiling and > running LCB-only programs. > > > http://blog.peter-b.co.uk/2015/08/livecode-builder-without-livecode-bit.html > > If you write any little LCB-only programs, please let me know. I'd love > to see what people do with this capability. > > Peter > > -- > Dr Peter Brett > LiveCode Open Source Team > > LiveCode on reddit! > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From brahma at hindu.org Sun Aug 30 14:36:30 2015 From: brahma at hindu.org (Brahmanathaswami) Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2015 08:36:30 -1000 Subject: More TopStack-DefaultStack Mysterious - TraveralOn (false) Selection lost? In-Reply-To: <55E271C6.2080801@fourthworld.com> References: <55E263D8.7010605@hindu.org> <55E271C6.2080801@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <55E34D2E.1090805@hindu.org> sometimes we need to cite behaviors in two locations. In attempts to solve the problem I looked in the dictionary under traversalOn and autotab in the former we need to say: "If any field on a card has it's traversalOn set to true, clicking where on that stack/card will move the focus of to that stack. In context where you are using palettes and trying to retain a selection or objects in the top stack, be sure all fields on your palette have their traversalOn set to false. in the "autoTab" entry we need to say even if the autotab of a field is false...if the traversalOn of the field is true, the field will become the focused object when the card/stack that it is on it clicked (even a stack in palette mode) -- Swasti Astu, Be Well! Brahmanathaswami Kauai's Hindu Monastery www.HimalayanAcademy.com Richard Gaskin wrote: > Ah, but that's the hard part: where? > > For all I know it may even be documented already, but I can't imagine > where I might go to learn about it. From peter.brett at livecode.com Sun Aug 30 15:02:39 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2015 21:02:39 +0200 Subject: LiveCode Builder without the LiveCode bit In-Reply-To: References: <147aabd7c49bc4c9b383acd33dadc28d@livecode.com> Message-ID: <76ea0a61e916d91e50f3e1ddf79aff14@livecode.com> On 2015-08-30 20:12, Mike Kerner wrote: > That doesn't suck. Now I have more to tinker with... > Tinker away, and have fun! I'm hoping to write some more follow-up blog posts, but might not have time until mid-September. Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Open Source Team LiveCode on reddit! From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Sun Aug 30 15:09:58 2015 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2015 15:09:58 -0400 Subject: textWrangler and liveCodeBuilder.plist In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Never mind, I found the answer over on the forums from the last time I posted this question. Instead of downloading the file, copy the code out of gitHub, then in your ~/Library/Application Support/TextWrangler/Language Modules/LiveCodeBuilder.plist file, save the code. Why that works when downloading the file does not, I don't know. On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 9:28 AM, Mike Kerner wrote: > I've been messing with 8 since whenever dp1 came out, but I still can't > get liveCodeBuilder.plist to work with textWrangler. Does anyone else have > it working? > > I have it in ~/Library/Application Support/TextWrangler/Language Modules/ > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From pete at lcsql.com Sun Aug 30 18:31:44 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2015 22:31:44 +0000 Subject: Goodbye stsMLXEditor In-Reply-To: <55E24566.8040106@fourthworld.com> References: <55E24566.8040106@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: I decided to give this another try since I really like using Textmate. The plugin watches the modified date of the Textmate file and if it changes ,sets the script of the related object to the contents of the file. If any compile errors are detected, the plugin displays them in a window. However it seems that not all errors are detected. So far the missing errors are those associated with Strict Compile mode, e.g. missing local variable definitions, missing quotes around certain language elements. If there is an error of that nature in the Textmate file, you are not notified of it and it appears that the new version of the script is not updated into its related object, thus edits are lost. I have no idea why any of that should be. Pete On Sat, Aug 29, 2015 at 4:51 PM Richard Gaskin wrote: > Peter Haworth wrote: > > > Did lots of script editing in Textmate today via stsMXL plugin. Saved > > several times along the way, quit TextMate and Livecode. Next time I > > ran Livecode, all my edits were gone. Maybe it needed a final save or > > something but should have received warnings if so. > > > > Back to the IDE SE for me > > There's nothing magic about editing scripts. Whether the script is > copied out of an object into a text field or into a temp file, the > sequence is largely the same: an editScript message initiates the > action, and a "set script" command puts the script back into the object > it came from. > > It may well be that the very old stsMXL plugin could use an update, but > for those who like using external editors I would encourage considering > it as a useful starting point for a solution that can be every bit as > robust as using a text field. Voodoo need not apply; just get a script > and set a script, and what happens in between can be done by any means > you prefer. > > If your edits were indeed put back into the objects you thought you were > editing, and the stack those objects were in was indeed saved, something > else went wrong. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Sun Aug 30 20:46:31 2015 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 08:46:31 +0800 Subject: Goodbye stsMLXEditor In-Reply-To: References: <55E24566.8040106@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 6:31 AM, Peter Haworth wrote: > I decided to give this another try since I really like using Textmate. > > Thank you. > > However it seems that not all errors are detected. So far the missing > errors are those associated with Strict Compile mode, e.g. missing local > variable definitions, missing quotes around certain language elements. > In the 7.1 rc 1 Dictionary it says this under the 'script' property entry: LiveCode compiles the script immediately after it is set. For the 'scriptParsingError' message entry: Sent to an object when its script cannot be compiled. Followed by this VERY important Note: The scriptParsingError message is no longer sent. Instead, any parse error is now put into the result immediately after setting the script of an object. So I: New Main Stack Added a button and named it 'one' Added a button and named it 'two' In btn one added a script: on mouseUp if (the script of btn "two" = empty) then set the script of btn "two" to "on mouseUp" & cr & \ "repeat with x = 1 to 10" & cr & \ "put " & quote & "A" & quote & "x into y" & cr & \ "end repeat" & cr & \ "put y into msg" & cr & \ "end mouseUp" else set the script of btn "two" to empty end if put the result into msg end mouseUp Apply Clicked on btn 'one' and I get this: 117,3,8 265,3,8 394,3,8 395,3,8 319,3,8 166,3,8 165,3,8 I was expecting an error, because the line: put "A"x into y is wrong, but the msg if I were to Apply that script in the Script Editor is: button "two": compilation error at line 3 (Expression: bad factor), char 8 So I can figure out the relationship between the 3 and the 8, but the fist number on each line is pretty cryptic. With Strict Compilation turned On, if I amend the offending line to: "put " & quote & "A" & quote & " & x into y" & cr & \ And click btn 'one' I get no errors. But if I open the script to btn 'two' when it contains the script: on mouseUp repeat with x = 1 to 10 put "A" & x into y end repeat put y into msg end mouseUp and Apply it I get the Error msg: button "two": compilation error at line 3 (Chunk: can't create a variable with that name (explicitVariables?)) near "y", char 13 So this wouldn't appear to be anything to do with sts but how LC handles 'set the script of' and apparently a different level of syntax checking when compared to using the SE's Apply btn. Nice find Peter! There would seem to be two issues, firstly the different level of Compilation checking, and secondly, the Dictionary entry for 'scriptParseError' implies that the error message we are going to get is human readable. What currently is presented in the result is of little use unless there is documentation to decipher the numbers; although the SE style error message is really what we want. From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Sun Aug 30 20:59:21 2015 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 08:59:21 +0800 Subject: ANN: PowerDebug 1.1.17 In-Reply-To: <55E12B06.6050501@ahsoftware.net> References: <55E12B06.6050501@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: As the author of PowerDebug I was wondering if you had any insight into the different levels of syntax checking LC applies when setting the script of an object vs using the Scipt Editor. This is being discussed under the recently posted Subject: Goodbye stsMLXEditor Also any insight into deciiphering 'the result' when a 'set script of' contains errors? Sorry I don't know how to provide links to List posts but if you could post your thoughts to that thread, that would be appreciated. From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Sun Aug 30 21:33:49 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2015 18:33:49 -0700 Subject: Goodbye stsMLXEditor In-Reply-To: References: <55E24566.8040106@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <55E3AEFD.1040606@ahsoftware.net> On 08/30/2015 05:46 PM, Kay C Lan wrote: > There would seem to be two issues, firstly the different level of > Compilation checking, and secondly, the Dictionary entry for > 'scriptParseError' implies that the error message we are going to get is > human readable. What currently is presented in the result is of little use > unless there is documentation to decipher the numbers; although the SE > style error message is really what we want. Well, yes and no. Unfortunately that message is no longer being sent. There's a bug report in the system to try to get it back, but it's been languishing from lack of attention for quite some time. The difference in the error texts you're seeing is just the IDE's script editor interpreting the rather cryptic numeric messages you're seeing when you look at the raw data. The lines are of the form errorNumber, lineNumber, charNumber and the errorNumber is an index into a list of strings stored in a couple of global properties. There's one list for compilation errors and one list for runtime errors. I wrote a handy function for PowerDebug to show these things because it's awkward trying to remember what the various error numbers mean. function ExplainError pErrorNum, pErrorType local tFunc local tResult if pErrorType is empty then put "runtime" into pErrorType end if switch pErrorType case "compilation" put line pErrorNum of the scriptparsingerrors into tResult break case "runtime" default put line pErrorNum of the scriptexecutionerrors into tResult end switch return tResult end ExplainError ...So the error list you see represents Expression: bad factor param: bad expression Commands: bad parameter Commands: bad parameters repeat: error in command Handler: error in command Handler: error in handler and normally it's safe to ignore everything except the first line you receive. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Sun Aug 30 21:52:20 2015 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 09:52:20 +0800 Subject: Goodbye stsMLXEditor In-Reply-To: <55E3AEFD.1040606@ahsoftware.net> References: <55E24566.8040106@fourthworld.com> <55E3AEFD.1040606@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 9:33 AM, Mark Wieder wrote: Well, yes and no. Unfortunately that message is no longer being sent. > There's a bug report in the system to try to get it back, but it's been > languishing from lack of attention for quite some time. > > But what about the fact that the result is empty even though the SE would trigger an error if Script Compilation is On? Would the reactivation of the sciptParseError rectify this problem? From pete at lcsql.com Sun Aug 30 22:01:09 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 02:01:09 +0000 Subject: Goodbye stsMLXEditor In-Reply-To: References: <55E24566.8040106@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Thanks for checking that out Kay. I am using LC 7.0.6 but I'm sure the same condition applies. If I get a chance, I will check out the sts plugin code and see if changing it to check the result after setting the script fixes it. Sounds like it will. Mark's right about interpreting the numbers. In fact the plugin displays not only the numbers but the errors associated with them. While we're talking about script errors, another pet peeve of mine is: compilation stops after finding the first error. Would really like to see all errors flagged in whatever new Script Editor is coming down the pike. Pete On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 5:46 PM Kay C Lan wrote: > On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 6:31 AM, Peter Haworth wrote: > > > I decided to give this another try since I really like using Textmate. > > > > Thank you. > > > > > However it seems that not all errors are detected. So far the missing > > errors are those associated with Strict Compile mode, e.g. missing local > > variable definitions, missing quotes around certain language elements. > > > > In the 7.1 rc 1 Dictionary it says this under the 'script' property entry: > > LiveCode compiles the script immediately after it is set. > > For the 'scriptParsingError' message entry: > > Sent to an object when its script cannot be compiled. > > Followed by this VERY important Note: > > The scriptParsingError message is no longer sent. Instead, any parse error > is now put into the result immediately after setting the script of an > object. > > So I: > > New Main Stack > Added a button and named it 'one' > Added a button and named it 'two' > > In btn one added a script: > > on mouseUp > if (the script of btn "two" = empty) then > set the script of btn "two" to "on mouseUp" & cr & \ > "repeat with x = 1 to 10" & cr & \ > "put " & quote & "A" & quote & "x into y" & cr & \ > "end repeat" & cr & \ > "put y into msg" & cr & \ > "end mouseUp" > else > set the script of btn "two" to empty > end if > put the result into msg > end mouseUp > > Apply > > Clicked on btn 'one' and I get this: > > 117,3,8 > 265,3,8 > 394,3,8 > 395,3,8 > 319,3,8 > 166,3,8 > 165,3,8 > > I was expecting an error, because the line: > > put "A"x into y > > is wrong, but the msg if I were to Apply that script in the Script Editor > is: > > button "two": compilation error at line 3 (Expression: bad factor), char 8 > > So I can figure out the relationship between the 3 and the 8, but the fist > number on each line is pretty cryptic. > > With Strict Compilation turned On, if I amend the offending line to: > > "put " & quote & "A" & quote & " & x into y" & cr & \ > > And click btn 'one' I get no errors. But if I open the script to btn 'two' > when it contains the script: > > on mouseUp > repeat with x = 1 to 10 > put "A" & x into y > end repeat > put y into msg > end mouseUp > > and Apply it I get the Error msg: > > button "two": compilation error at line 3 (Chunk: can't create a variable > with that name (explicitVariables?)) near "y", char 13 > > So this wouldn't appear to be anything to do with sts but how LC handles > 'set the script of' and apparently a different level of syntax checking > when compared to using the SE's Apply btn. > > Nice find Peter! > > There would seem to be two issues, firstly the different level of > Compilation checking, and secondly, the Dictionary entry for > 'scriptParseError' implies that the error message we are going to get is > human readable. What currently is presented in the result is of little use > unless there is documentation to decipher the numbers; although the SE > style error message is really what we want. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Sun Aug 30 23:13:25 2015 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 11:13:25 +0800 Subject: Goodbye stsMLXEditor In-Reply-To: References: <55E24566.8040106@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 10:01 AM, Peter Haworth wrote: > > If I get a chance, I will check out the sts plugin code and see if changing > it to check the result after setting the script fixes it. Sounds like it > will. > > But then you have a Catch22 - I expect the result will be empty so your script will be set - but you still have your strict compilation error. In my Recipe stack, once I correct the basic error within the set script statement, click btn "one', and then I click on btn 'two' it does what it suppose to but if I open btn 'two's script and Apply I get a Compilation Error because 'y' was not declared. The real question is, how does sts know that there is a compilation error which stops it from setting the script, as experienced by you stating that your changes are NOT made, but sts doesn't have enough info to post you the error - which could be because part of the check also uses the result of setting the script but the result is empty so there is nothing to post? IMO this seems to be an Engine side problem, not an sts side problem. If the 'the result' of setting the script also caught Strict Compilation errors, then it would be easier to pass text in and out of scripts and pick up syntax errors. > > While we're talking about script errors, another pet peeve of mine is: > compilation stops after finding the first error. Would really like to see > all errors flagged in whatever new Script Editor is coming down the pike. > > Yes, I commented that space taken up by the Errors Tab seems to be a waste as it only ever reports one error. If ALL syntax errors were reported the size of the Errors Tab would seem to be more sensible. Proceeding past the first error and continuing to check for more would seem to be a sensible enhancement request - it's how my TE works which is another thing I could add to my list of why I like my TE over the SE. From bonnmike at gmail.com Mon Aug 31 00:55:39 2015 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2015 22:55:39 -0600 Subject: Goodbye stsMLXEditor In-Reply-To: References: <55E24566.8040106@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: The script updates aren't actually being done with revXMLeditor. Set is never done, its not due to the strict compile error or other errors I don't believe. If you set an object the a garbage script in the message box, the set works, even if the script is non-functional. I think I have the answer.. On osx or linux, adjust your editor settings so that the process starts in the background. (IE append an & to the end of the shell command). shell is blocking, and the watchFilename call happens AFTER the shell call, once you close the editor. At which point it tags it with the new time stamp, and starts monitoring it. Since there is no time change, the script is never updated to the object, and it stays in "watched" mode indefinitely. On windows I had to cheat. I commented out the watchFilename command that occurs after the shell call, and added it right before the shell call in the editor launch script. While playing, I am simply using notepad. put "%s" into tTmpFile watchFilename tFilename, tMD5 put quote & "notepad.exe" & quote into tEditor get shell( tEditor && tTmpFile) It picks up tFilename just fine from the doEditScript when the "do" is done but would probably work with tTmpFile too. The commented out watchFilename is in the doEditScript handler.right near the end. --watchFilename tFilename, tMD5 log "OPEN:" && the long name of pID end doEditScript This still doesn't solve the issue of knowing when variables haven't been declared, since setting obviously just doesn't do that check, but at least it makes setting of scripts work. If appending an & to the command works on linux/osx, let me know. on windows, I _Think_ you can use "start program.exe" and which will end up returning control to shell, but i'm not sure any more. Too long since I've commandlined in windows. On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 9:13 PM, Kay C Lan wrote: > On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 10:01 AM, Peter Haworth wrote: > > > > > If I get a chance, I will check out the sts plugin code and see if > changing > > it to check the result after setting the script fixes it. Sounds like it > > will. > > > > But then you have a Catch22 - I expect the result will be empty so your > script will be set - but you still have your strict compilation error. In > my Recipe stack, once I correct the basic error within the set script > statement, click btn "one', and then I click on btn 'two' it does what it > suppose to but if I open btn 'two's script and Apply I get a Compilation > Error because 'y' was not declared. > > The real question is, how does sts know that there is a compilation error > which stops it from setting the script, as experienced by you stating that > your changes are NOT made, but sts doesn't have enough info to post you the > error - which could be because part of the check also uses the result of > setting the script but the result is empty so there is nothing to post? > > IMO this seems to be an Engine side problem, not an sts side problem. If > the 'the result' of setting the script also caught Strict Compilation > errors, then it would be easier to pass text in and out of scripts and pick > up syntax errors. > > > > > While we're talking about script errors, another pet peeve of mine is: > > compilation stops after finding the first error. Would really like to > see > > all errors flagged in whatever new Script Editor is coming down the pike. > > > > Yes, I commented that space taken up by the Errors Tab seems to be a > waste > as it only ever reports one error. If ALL syntax errors were reported the > size of the Errors Tab would seem to be more sensible. Proceeding past the > first error and continuing to check for more would seem to be a sensible > enhancement request - it's how my TE works which is another thing I could > add to my list of why I like my TE over the SE. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Mon Aug 31 01:45:56 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2015 22:45:56 -0700 Subject: Documentation [was: Re: v8 DP3] In-Reply-To: <55E02AC4.6080307@gmail.com> References: <55DDD9F5.4040803@gmail.com> <55DDE73B.1040803@warrensweb.us> <55DE2F8C.4080405@gmail.com> <55DEB209.8040403@gmail.com> <1392CC08-70FC-4784-A05C-1A2AF4E1321B@techstrategies.com.au> <55DEB872.6080901@gmail.com> <1997ed2437174f2275501c52474b2b10@livecode.com> <55DF7583.1010101@hyperactivesw.com> <55DFFD92.7060507@gmail.com> <55E00A84.1090300@gmail.com> <55E025CA.1000804@gmail.com> <55E02806.7060602@livecode.com> <55E029BA.7050605@gmail.com> <55E02AC4.6080307@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55E3EA14.5090408@ahsoftware.net> On 08/28/2015 02:32 AM, Richmond wrote: > Or, put another way; will Atom work as a Git GUI? > > I am downloading a selection of Linux Git GUIs which all look far more > primitive than Atom . . . Not sure what you mean by 'Git GUI'... If you want to use as a text editor for gui, then by all means do so. If you also want to use that for git commit messages, etc, then git config --global core.editor YourEditorHere will make that the default editor. If you want a gui to work with git... um... I'm not sure what to suggest. If you want something like gitk then you should probably use gitk (or gitx on osx, or tig). Atom's a text editor. Or at least that's all I've ever used it for. Maybe there's more there. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From charles at techstrategies.com.au Mon Aug 31 01:58:39 2015 From: charles at techstrategies.com.au (Charles Warwick) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 15:58:39 +1000 Subject: Documentation [was: Re: v8 DP3] In-Reply-To: <55E3EA14.5090408@ahsoftware.net> References: <55DDD9F5.4040803@gmail.com> <55DDE73B.1040803@warrensweb.us> <55DE2F8C.4080405@gmail.com> <55DEB209.8040403@gmail.com> <1392CC08-70FC-4784-A05C-1A2AF4E1321B@techstrategies.com.au> <55DEB872.6080901@gmail.com> <1997ed2437174f2275501c52474b2b10@livecode.com> <55DF7583.1010101@hyperactivesw.com> <55DFFD92.7060507@gmail.com> <55E00A84.1090300@gmail.com> <55E025CA.1000804@gmail.com> <55E02806.7060602@livecode.com> <55E029BA.7050605@gmail.com> <55E02AC4.6080307@gmail.com> <55E3EA14.5090408@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <498C1C5C-268D-4526-8D03-544AB60F3D91@techstrategies.com.au> > On 31 Aug 2015, at 3:45 pm, Mark Wieder wrote: > > On 08/28/2015 02:32 AM, Richmond wrote: >> Or, put another way; will Atom work as a Git GUI? >> >> I am downloading a selection of Linux Git GUIs which all look far more >> primitive than Atom . . . > > Not sure what you mean by 'Git GUI'... > > If you want to use as a text editor for gui, then by all means do so. If you also want to use that for git commit messages, etc, then > > git config --global core.editor YourEditorHere > > will make that the default editor. > > If you want a gui to work with git... um... I'm not sure what to suggest. If you want something like gitk then you should probably use gitk (or gitx on osx, or tig). Atom's a text editor. Or at least that's all I've ever used it for. Maybe there's more there. > Atom comes with a default plugin that recognises local git repositories. So if you open the root folder of the git repository as a project folder, it will highlight which files have been modified since the last commit along with giving you a few other details like the branch you are on and whether you are behind on any commits. However, you can also install a plugin called ?Git Plus? that allows you to use keyboard shortcuts to add/commit/push etc? I have only tried that plugin once or twice as I prefer to use SourceTree under os x to deal with git. I do find the standard features of Atom like which files have been modified since your last commit handy though. Cheers, Charles > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From rolf.kocherhans at id.uzh.ch Mon Aug 31 03:28:06 2015 From: rolf.kocherhans at id.uzh.ch (Rolf Kocherhans) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 09:28:06 +0200 Subject: Script-only stacks [was: Re: Script Editor future] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have done this already in 2012 with my plugin: > With this arrangement, using git and external editors becomes easier to > integrate with the added benefit that one could implement a 2 save option, > saving a GUI version and a script only version of your stacks to different > locations at the same time. You can download it here: http://livecodeshare.runrev.com/stack/669/Kochi-Mini-SVN-Installer I should have called the Plugin ?Kochi Mini CVS? instead of "Kochi Mini SVN", the name confuses people I guess. But it does write text files of every control to a file (UTF8) which can then be used with GIT. And, it integrates into the IDE, after installing the Plugin you find the buttons to export the scripts as text-files, in the ScriptEditor, in the top Bar. Cheers Rolf From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Mon Aug 31 05:38:05 2015 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 17:38:05 +0800 Subject: Goodbye stsMLXEditor In-Reply-To: References: <55E24566.8040106@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 12:55 PM, Mike Bonner wrote: > The script updates aren't actually being done with revXMLeditor. Set is > never done, its not due to the strict compile error or other errors I don't > believe. > > My apology, poor form, I should have specified OS X 10.9.5, LC 7.1 rc 1 I have no problem using my favourite Text Editor and using stsMLXEditor to set 'valid' scripts into various objects in LC. If you set an object a garbage script in the message box, the set > works, even if the script is non-functional. > Yes but did the result report an error? New Stack, 1 button, If I run this in the msg box: set the script of btn 1 to "on mouseUp" & cr & "if () then" & cr & "end mouseUp" and run it, the result area of the msg box has this: 114,2,4,) 184,2,4,) 166,2,4,) 165,2,4,) An error output as explained by Mark points to the problem correctly. Yes, the script gets set but at least I'm told it's bad. Also note that if you were to open the Script Editor and edit the script for btn 1 to nothing other than "the quick brown fox" and apply it, you don't get an Error which is no different to if you 'set the script of btn 1 to "the quick brown fox". At this stage I'm actually OK with that, at least it's consistent - no error in either case. The issue I have is where the SE reports an Error but using 'set the script of ....' does not. If my Text Editor script has a 'basic' syntax problem, sts pops up a dialogue to tell me the error - in human format that Mark explained. As Pete discovered, if errors with your script are related to Strict Compilation mode (and maybe other more advanced issues) then you don't get a dialog to tell you there is an error. BUT on my current very basic test it is still setting the script of the object. So there is certainly something more complex at play here and my understanding of what Pete is experiencing is that once he does suffer one of these Strict Compilation errors sts is no longer keeping his TE and SE in sync. He looses work which is unacceptable. So there seems to be a number of issues: 1) You personally don't seem to be able to set ANY scripts with sts straight out of the box. 2) Pete and I can set VALID scripts OK 3) Basic syntax errors are reported OK, can be fixed and everything remains in sync. 4) Strict Compilation Mode errors are NOT reported. a) For me, and I've only tested very basic scripts, the faulty script is still set. b) For Pete, who's probably testing more complex scripts, at some point scripts are no longer being set and further changes are lost. 5) If you see other instances where you can set a script in the msg box and the result is empty, but in the SE it would result in a compilation error, we need to know. IMO the heart of this is the failure of Script Compilation errors (and maybe some others) to be correctly caught and reported by the Engine when you (sts or whatever) 'set the script of ....' From toolbook at kestner.de Mon Aug 31 07:43:41 2015 From: toolbook at kestner.de (Tiemo Hollmann TB) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 13:43:41 +0200 Subject: Installer maker window keeps blank on OS X Message-ID: <06f701d0e3e2$490c95e0$db25c1a0$@kestner.de> Hello, I am packaging my OS X program with installer maker and codesign it. It works fine at all customers beside of one. Now a customer with OS X 10.9.5 tells me that she opens my installer and he gets only a blank white window. The window has my text in the title bar, but not text or any buttons like cancel or next in the window, so she can't go on to install my program, only close it by the red cross. I have checked, if it has anything to do with the security settings (install apps only from.), but nothing changes in the weird behavior of the installer, changing the security setting. The user has admin rights. Has anybody ever seen such a behavior, perhaps with any other program or any idea, what to check for on this machine? What could go wrong here? Thanks for any ideas Tiemo From bonnmike at gmail.com Mon Aug 31 08:00:15 2015 From: bonnmike at gmail.com (Mike Bonner) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 06:00:15 -0600 Subject: Goodbye stsMLXEditor In-Reply-To: References: <55E24566.8040106@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: I wonder if there is an issue for me because of windows version (windows only) No error reports, no scripts set, blocked until closing the editor. (windows 10) Making the change solves the issue, but then no errors are reported. Guess I should restart and hope. (I love windows) I'll hush now. :) On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 3:38 AM, Kay C Lan wrote: > On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 12:55 PM, Mike Bonner wrote: > > > The script updates aren't actually being done with revXMLeditor. Set is > > never done, its not due to the strict compile error or other errors I > don't > > believe. > > > > My apology, poor form, I should have specified OS X 10.9.5, LC 7.1 rc 1 > > I have no problem using my favourite Text Editor and using stsMLXEditor to > set 'valid' scripts into various objects in LC. > > If you set an object a garbage script in the message box, the set > > works, even if the script is non-functional. > > > > Yes but did the result report an error? New Stack, 1 button, If I run this > in the msg box: > > set the script of btn 1 to "on mouseUp" & cr & "if () then" & cr & "end > mouseUp" > > and run it, the result area of the msg box has this: > > 114,2,4,) > 184,2,4,) > 166,2,4,) > 165,2,4,) > > An error output as explained by Mark points to the problem correctly. Yes, > the script gets set but at least I'm told it's bad. Also note that if you > were to open the Script Editor and edit the script for btn 1 to nothing > other than "the quick brown fox" and apply it, you don't get an Error which > is no different to if you 'set the script of btn 1 to "the quick brown > fox". At this stage I'm actually OK with that, at least it's consistent - > no error in either case. The issue I have is where the SE reports an Error > but using 'set the script of ....' does not. > > If my Text Editor script has a 'basic' syntax problem, sts pops up a > dialogue to tell me the error - in human format that Mark explained. > > As Pete discovered, if errors with your script are related to Strict > Compilation mode (and maybe other more advanced issues) then you don't get > a dialog to tell you there is an error. BUT on my current very basic test > it is still setting the script of the object. > > So there is certainly something more complex at play here and my > understanding of what Pete is experiencing is that once he does suffer one > of these Strict Compilation errors sts is no longer keeping his TE and SE > in sync. He looses work which is unacceptable. > > So there seems to be a number of issues: > > 1) You personally don't seem to be able to set ANY scripts with sts > straight out of the box. > 2) Pete and I can set VALID scripts OK > 3) Basic syntax errors are reported OK, can be fixed and everything remains > in sync. > 4) Strict Compilation Mode errors are NOT reported. > a) For me, and I've only tested very basic scripts, the faulty script > is still set. > b) For Pete, who's probably testing more complex scripts, at some point > scripts are no longer being set and further changes are lost. > 5) If you see other instances where you can set a script in the msg box and > the result is empty, but in the SE it would result in a compilation error, > we need to know. > > IMO the heart of this is the failure of Script Compilation errors (and > maybe some others) to be correctly caught and reported by the Engine when > you (sts or whatever) 'set the script of ....' > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From dochawk at gmail.com Mon Aug 31 10:09:55 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 07:09:55 -0700 Subject: Goodbye stsMLXEditor In-Reply-To: References: <55E24566.8040106@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 3:31 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: > However it seems that not all errors are detected. So far the missing > errors are those associated with Strict Compile mode, e.g. missing local > variable definitions, missing quotes around certain language elements. > The built in editor has gotten pretty bad at these over the last couple of years, too . . . I regularly get the red indicator for the pane, with no error message and no way to find where it choked other than closing the editor windows entirely an reopening scripts to compile again. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From fraserjgordon at gmail.com Mon Aug 31 11:28:28 2015 From: fraserjgordon at gmail.com (Fraser Gordon) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 16:28:28 +0100 Subject: Release: 8.0 DP4... also, HTML5 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear list members, We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 8.0 DP4. Warning: this is not a stable release. Please ensure you back up your stacks before testing them. This release contains an alpha release of HTML5 standalone deployment*. (*and also a fix for iOS device deployment. And various IDE bug fixes. But mainly HTML5.) To deploy to HTML5, select the ?HTML5? option in the standalone settings screen and deploy as normal. The standalone will be created in the target directory. For more information, see the Deploying to HTML5 guide in the LiveCode Dictionary. There is also a blog post available at https://livecode.com/how-to-run-app-in-browser/ The HTML5 standalone is an early prototype and while many stacks will work, some features are not currently implemented. Known issues are: - text rendering is limited to a single hard-coded font - alignment issues with text - no networking except ?get url? - using ?wait? will cause engine crashes - only some forms of ask/answer work - no externals - no widgets - no commercial deployment (please use the community engine to test!) - the JavaScript engine is very large (however, it will be cached and re-used on later visits) - supported browsers are limited to the latest versions of Firefox, Chrome and Safari More general known issues: - revBrowser for 32-bit Linux fails to run (causing the dictionary to be blank). Just to be clear: you *will* encounter bugs with HTML5 standalones - please report them at http://quality.runrev.com/ We?d be delighted to hear about any web pages you deploy using LiveCode HTML5 - please show them off to the list! Fraser From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Mon Aug 31 11:38:08 2015 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 11:38:08 -0400 Subject: LCB API's Message-ID: Does anyone know how to find the LCB API's? I was trying to fix a bug in the new clock widget over the weekend, but the various functions that it calls are not documented anywhere that I've looked, so far. -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From peter.brett at livecode.com Mon Aug 31 11:40:45 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 16:40:45 +0100 Subject: LCB API's In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55E4757D.9090601@livecode.com> On 31/08/2015 16:38, Mike Kerner wrote: > Does anyone know how to find the LCB API's? I was trying to fix a bug in > the new clock widget over the weekend, but the various functions that it > calls are not documented anywhere that I've looked, so far. If you go into the dictionary in the IDE, there's a drop down menu at the top left. If you select "LiveCode Builder" from the list, it'll show you all the syntax available. Which particular things did you run into in the clock widget that weren't documented? Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Engine Development Team LiveCode on reddit: https://reddit.com/r/livecode From paul at researchware.com Mon Aug 31 11:50:42 2015 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 11:50:42 -0400 Subject: LC676 IDE change in behavior? Message-ID: <55E477D2.1000608@researchware.com> I have noticed that when I double click on a stack on my desktop (or ay folder) (on Windows) to open it in LiveCode 6.7.6, that when the stack opens, the stack window is show briefly and then hides. I have to open the stack window by double clicking on it in the application Browser for it to display. There is no startup, preopenstack, openstack, preopencard or opencard handlers. The stack's visible property and rect and loc are all set to default values so it should be when LiveCode starts up. Is anyone else seeing this? Was there a change of IDE behavior between LC665 and 676? From colinholgate at gmail.com Mon Aug 31 11:57:50 2015 From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 11:57:50 -0400 Subject: Release: 8.0 DP4... also, HTML5 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8F22969E-8683-4B43-A4C4-46C456FF40FD@gmail.com> Did you know that button is disabled? > On Aug 31, 2015, at 11:28 AM, Fraser Gordon wrote: > > > To deploy to HTML5, select the ?HTML5? option in the standalone settings screen and deploy as normal. From fraser.gordon at livecode.com Mon Aug 31 12:01:25 2015 From: fraser.gordon at livecode.com (Fraser Gordon) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 17:01:25 +0100 Subject: Release: 8.0 DP4... also, HTML5 In-Reply-To: <8F22969E-8683-4B43-A4C4-46C456FF40FD@gmail.com> References: <8F22969E-8683-4B43-A4C4-46C456FF40FD@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55E47A55.6050303@livecode.com> On 31/08/2015 16:57, Colin Holgate wrote: > Did you know that button is disabled? It is disabled by design in commercial engines as we don't have everything ready for commercial deployment yet - for now, only Community edition will deploy to HTML5. The stack file is unprotected and easily downloadable so I wouldn't recommend trying to do it manually! Fraser From th.douez at gmail.com Mon Aug 31 12:02:49 2015 From: th.douez at gmail.com (Thierry Douez) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 18:02:49 +0200 Subject: LC676 IDE change in behavior? In-Reply-To: <55E477D2.1000608@researchware.com> References: <55E477D2.1000608@researchware.com> Message-ID: Hi Paul, It looks like the latest bug report I sent to Qcc. Doesn't have the Qcc number right now. Regards, Thierry ------------------------------------------------ Thierry Douez - http://sunny-tdz.com Maker of sunnYperl - sunnYmidi - sunnYmage 2015-08-31 17:50 GMT+02:00 Paul Dupuis : > I have noticed that when I double click on a stack on my desktop (or ay > folder) (on Windows) to open it in LiveCode 6.7.6, that when the stack > opens, the stack window is show briefly and then hides. I have to open > the stack window by double clicking on it in the application Browser for > it to display. > > There is no startup, preopenstack, openstack, preopencard or opencard > handlers. The stack's visible property and rect and loc are all set to > default values so it should be when LiveCode starts up. > > Is anyone else seeing this? Was there a change of IDE behavior between > LC665 and 676? > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Mon Aug 31 12:13:44 2015 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 12:13:44 -0400 Subject: LCB API's In-Reply-To: <55E4757D.9090601@livecode.com> References: <55E4757D.9090601@livecode.com> Message-ID: That's where I looked. If you look at the documentation for date, the only thing that comes up is local date, but in the example, local is colorized as a modifier and date as a keyword, and the same occurs with time - it is shown as local time, but again, local is colorized as a modifier and time as a keyword, but neither time nor date are documented per se, which makes me wonder what syntax is really available, and if there are other modifiers. The example incorrectly sets the timezone as UTC0, when what it should be doing is determining the timezone either by comparison to UTC or some other means, and then setting. I'd like to beat the rest of the community to the punch and submit the fix to Git, but I don't want to waste my time if the syntax is deprecated on arrival. On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 11:40 AM, Peter TB Brett wrote: > > > On 31/08/2015 16:38, Mike Kerner wrote: > >> Does anyone know how to find the LCB API's? I was trying to fix a bug in >> the new clock widget over the weekend, but the various functions that it >> calls are not documented anywhere that I've looked, so far. >> > > If you go into the dictionary in the IDE, there's a drop down menu at the > top left. If you select "LiveCode Builder" from the list, it'll show you > all the syntax available. > > Which particular things did you run into in the clock widget that weren't > documented? > > Peter > > -- > Dr Peter Brett > LiveCode Engine Development Team > > LiveCode on reddit: https://reddit.com/r/livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Mon Aug 31 12:14:40 2015 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 12:14:40 -0400 Subject: LCB API's In-Reply-To: References: <55E4757D.9090601@livecode.com> Message-ID: In addition, in the dictionary, "localDate" is one word, but in the examples, and in the code in clock, it is not. On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 12:13 PM, Mike Kerner wrote: > That's where I looked. > If you look at the documentation for date, the only thing that comes up is > local date, but in the example, local is colorized as a modifier and date > as a keyword, and the same occurs with time - it is shown as local time, > but again, local is colorized as a modifier and time as a keyword, but > neither time nor date are documented per se, which makes me wonder what > syntax is really available, and if there are other modifiers. > > The example incorrectly sets the timezone as UTC0, when what it should be > doing is determining the timezone either by comparison to UTC or some other > means, and then setting. I'd like to beat the rest of the community to the > punch and submit the fix to Git, but I don't want to waste my time if the > syntax is deprecated on arrival. > > > On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 11:40 AM, Peter TB Brett > wrote: > >> >> >> On 31/08/2015 16:38, Mike Kerner wrote: >> >>> Does anyone know how to find the LCB API's? I was trying to fix a bug in >>> the new clock widget over the weekend, but the various functions that it >>> calls are not documented anywhere that I've looked, so far. >>> >> >> If you go into the dictionary in the IDE, there's a drop down menu at the >> top left. If you select "LiveCode Builder" from the list, it'll show you >> all the syntax available. >> >> Which particular things did you run into in the clock widget that weren't >> documented? >> >> Peter >> >> -- >> Dr Peter Brett >> LiveCode Engine Development Team >> >> LiveCode on reddit: https://reddit.com/r/livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From ali.lloyd at livecode.com Mon Aug 31 12:22:06 2015 From: ali.lloyd at livecode.com (Ali Lloyd) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 16:22:06 +0000 Subject: LCB API's In-Reply-To: References: <55E4757D.9090601@livecode.com> Message-ID: The dictionary attempts to detect whether any code snippet is livecode script or livecode builder - in this case it appears to be autodetecting incorrectly. I will have to investigate ways of fixing this. The syntax of everything is as it is displayed in the syntax field - the "LocalDate" you can see is just the name of the dictionary entry. On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 5:14 PM Mike Kerner wrote: > In addition, in the dictionary, "localDate" is one word, but in the > examples, and in the code in clock, it is not. > > On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 12:13 PM, Mike Kerner > wrote: > > > That's where I looked. > > If you look at the documentation for date, the only thing that comes up > is > > local date, but in the example, local is colorized as a modifier and date > > as a keyword, and the same occurs with time - it is shown as local time, > > but again, local is colorized as a modifier and time as a keyword, but > > neither time nor date are documented per se, which makes me wonder what > > syntax is really available, and if there are other modifiers. > > > > The example incorrectly sets the timezone as UTC0, when what it should be > > doing is determining the timezone either by comparison to UTC or some > other > > means, and then setting. I'd like to beat the rest of the community to > the > > punch and submit the fix to Git, but I don't want to waste my time if the > > syntax is deprecated on arrival. > > > > > > On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 11:40 AM, Peter TB Brett < > peter.brett at livecode.com > > > wrote: > > > >> > >> > >> On 31/08/2015 16:38, Mike Kerner wrote: > >> > >>> Does anyone know how to find the LCB API's? I was trying to fix a bug > in > >>> the new clock widget over the weekend, but the various functions that > it > >>> calls are not documented anywhere that I've looked, so far. > >>> > >> > >> If you go into the dictionary in the IDE, there's a drop down menu at > the > >> top left. If you select "LiveCode Builder" from the list, it'll show > you > >> all the syntax available. > >> > >> Which particular things did you run into in the clock widget that > weren't > >> documented? > >> > >> Peter > >> > >> -- > >> Dr Peter Brett > >> LiveCode Engine Development Team > >> > >> LiveCode on reddit: https://reddit.com/r/livecode > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > and did a little diving. > > And God said, "This is good." > > > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From david at viral.academy Mon Aug 31 12:15:28 2015 From: david at viral.academy (David Bovill) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 17:15:28 +0100 Subject: Release: 8.0 DP4... also, HTML5 In-Reply-To: <55E47A55.6050303@livecode.com> References: <8F22969E-8683-4B43-A4C4-46C456FF40FD@gmail.com> <55E47A55.6050303@livecode.com> Message-ID: ON OSX the widgets svgpath, circle progress and clock fail to load and show a red exclamation mark - is that expected? On 31 August 2015 at 17:01, Fraser Gordon wrote: > On 31/08/2015 16:57, Colin Holgate wrote: > > Did you know that button is disabled? > > It is disabled by design in commercial engines as we don't have > everything ready for commercial deployment yet - for now, only Community > edition will deploy to HTML5. The stack file is unprotected and easily > downloadable so I wouldn't recommend trying to do it manually! > > Fraser > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From colinholgate at gmail.com Mon Aug 31 12:27:23 2015 From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 12:27:23 -0400 Subject: Release: 8.0 DP4... also, HTML5 In-Reply-To: References: <8F22969E-8683-4B43-A4C4-46C456FF40FD@gmail.com> <55E47A55.6050303@livecode.com> Message-ID: Although the notes about HTML5 not supporting widgets yet, I see them just fine when I drag them out. > On Aug 31, 2015, at 12:15 PM, David Bovill wrote: > > ON OSX the widgets svgpath, circle progress and clock fail to load and show > a red exclamation mark - is that expected? > > On 31 August 2015 at 17:01, Fraser Gordon > wrote: > >> On 31/08/2015 16:57, Colin Holgate wrote: >>> Did you know that button is disabled? >> >> It is disabled by design in commercial engines as we don't have >> everything ready for commercial deployment yet - for now, only Community >> edition will deploy to HTML5. The stack file is unprotected and easily >> downloadable so I wouldn't recommend trying to do it manually! >> >> Fraser >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Mon Aug 31 12:28:44 2015 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 12:28:44 -0400 Subject: LCB API's In-Reply-To: References: <55E4757D.9090601@livecode.com> Message-ID: Now I'm really confused. If I don't search for "date" or "time" and instead go to the LCB side, and scroll down to com.livecode.date, it lists localDate, but the example that comes up when you select it shows "local date" as the syntax and in the example, shows "local time". So, that's supposed to be LCS and not LCB? Also, if that is new LCS, isn't that going to cause confusion with LOCAL declarations? The other thing I notieced was that in the release notes, there is a reference to com.livecode.timezone, which gave me hope that I could find what I needed in there, but it does not seem to be documented in the API, which leads me to believe that either it isn't documented, yet, or I'm not supposed to go there. On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 12:22 PM, Ali Lloyd wrote: > The dictionary attempts to detect whether any code snippet is livecode > script or livecode builder - in this case it appears to be autodetecting > incorrectly. I will have to investigate ways of fixing this. > > The syntax of everything is as it is displayed in the syntax field - the > "LocalDate" you can see is just the name of the dictionary entry. > > On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 5:14 PM Mike Kerner > wrote: > > > In addition, in the dictionary, "localDate" is one word, but in the > > examples, and in the code in clock, it is not. > > > > On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 12:13 PM, Mike Kerner > > > wrote: > > > > > That's where I looked. > > > If you look at the documentation for date, the only thing that comes up > > is > > > local date, but in the example, local is colorized as a modifier and > date > > > as a keyword, and the same occurs with time - it is shown as local > time, > > > but again, local is colorized as a modifier and time as a keyword, but > > > neither time nor date are documented per se, which makes me wonder what > > > syntax is really available, and if there are other modifiers. > > > > > > The example incorrectly sets the timezone as UTC0, when what it should > be > > > doing is determining the timezone either by comparison to UTC or some > > other > > > means, and then setting. I'd like to beat the rest of the community to > > the > > > punch and submit the fix to Git, but I don't want to waste my time if > the > > > syntax is deprecated on arrival. > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 11:40 AM, Peter TB Brett < > > peter.brett at livecode.com > > > > wrote: > > > > > >> > > >> > > >> On 31/08/2015 16:38, Mike Kerner wrote: > > >> > > >>> Does anyone know how to find the LCB API's? I was trying to fix a > bug > > in > > >>> the new clock widget over the weekend, but the various functions that > > it > > >>> calls are not documented anywhere that I've looked, so far. > > >>> > > >> > > >> If you go into the dictionary in the IDE, there's a drop down menu at > > the > > >> top left. If you select "LiveCode Builder" from the list, it'll show > > you > > >> all the syntax available. > > >> > > >> Which particular things did you run into in the clock widget that > > weren't > > >> documented? > > >> > > >> Peter > > >> > > >> -- > > >> Dr Peter Brett > > >> LiveCode Engine Development Team > > >> > > >> LiveCode on reddit: https://reddit.com/r/livecode > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> use-livecode mailing list > > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > >> subscription preferences: > > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > > and did a little diving. > > > And God said, "This is good." > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > and did a little diving. > > And God said, "This is good." > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From th.douez at gmail.com Mon Aug 31 12:39:25 2015 From: th.douez at gmail.com (Thierry Douez) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 18:39:25 +0200 Subject: LC676 IDE change in behavior? In-Reply-To: References: <55E477D2.1000608@researchware.com> Message-ID: Here it is: http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15721 and if you can provide a sample stack, it could help (see my last comment in qcc) Regards, Thierry 2015-08-31 18:02 GMT+02:00 Thierry Douez : > Hi Paul, > > It looks like the latest bug report I sent to Qcc. > > Doesn't have the Qcc number right now. > > Regards, > > Thierry > > ------------------------------------------------ > Thierry Douez - http://sunny-tdz.com > Maker of sunnYperl - sunnYmidi - sunnYmage > > > 2015-08-31 17:50 GMT+02:00 Paul Dupuis : >> I have noticed that when I double click on a stack on my desktop (or ay >> folder) (on Windows) to open it in LiveCode 6.7.6, that when the stack >> opens, the stack window is show briefly and then hides. I have to open >> the stack window by double clicking on it in the application Browser for >> it to display. >> >> There is no startup, preopenstack, openstack, preopencard or opencard >> handlers. The stack's visible property and rect and loc are all set to >> default values so it should be when LiveCode starts up. >> >> Is anyone else seeing this? Was there a change of IDE behavior between >> LC665 and 676? >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From colinholgate at gmail.com Mon Aug 31 12:46:40 2015 From: colinholgate at gmail.com (Colin Holgate) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 12:46:40 -0400 Subject: HTML5 test Message-ID: <46A85FF5-4552-4A82-B5EA-4DDFB554B339@gmail.com> Here?s an old stack, saved as HTML5: http://colin.scienceninja.com/html5/scrolling/scrolling.html The performance in Safari on my Mac is as good as it is in LiveCode. On my iPad Air the frame rate is a little slow. I?m still waiting for the page to load on my iPhone 3gs! Publishing to HTML5 is extremely quick, but there are some issues. The scrolling speed and direction is supposed to be based on the mouse position, but that seems not to work. The LC icon is the blue commercial version, but as you can see they?re not looking blue. Nor is the sky. Still, for not doing a single character change in the scripts, it?s a successful test! From ali.lloyd at livecode.com Mon Aug 31 12:48:15 2015 From: ali.lloyd at livecode.com (Ali Lloyd) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 16:48:15 +0000 Subject: LCB API's In-Reply-To: References: <55E4757D.9090601@livecode.com> Message-ID: Yes, if you look at the table for the entry for com.livecode.date, there are three column headings: NameSummarySyntax LocalDate is the name of the entry in the dictionary. "the local date" is the syntax. The timezone thing you have found in the release notes is in the IDE changes section, undewr the Property Inspector heading, and states A timezone property editor has been added which contains a dropdown list of timezones (com.livecode.pi.timezone) The property inspector has editors for different property types. The timezone editor was added as an editor for any property that might want be displayed as representing a timezone in the IDE in the property inspector. All such editors begin with the prefix com.livecode.pi. They are not LCB modules. On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 5:28 PM Mike Kerner wrote: > Now I'm really confused. If I don't search for "date" or "time" and > instead go to the LCB side, and scroll down to com.livecode.date, it lists > localDate, but the example that comes up when you select it shows "local > date" as the syntax and in the example, shows "local time". So, that's > supposed to be LCS and not LCB? Also, if that is new LCS, isn't that going > to cause confusion with LOCAL declarations? > > The other thing I notieced was that in the release notes, there is a > reference to com.livecode.timezone, which gave me hope that I could find > what I needed in there, but it does not seem to be documented in the API, > which leads me to believe that either it isn't documented, yet, or I'm not > supposed to go there. > > On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 12:22 PM, Ali Lloyd > wrote: > > > The dictionary attempts to detect whether any code snippet is livecode > > script or livecode builder - in this case it appears to be autodetecting > > incorrectly. I will have to investigate ways of fixing this. > > > > The syntax of everything is as it is displayed in the syntax field - the > > "LocalDate" you can see is just the name of the dictionary entry. > > > > On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 5:14 PM Mike Kerner > > wrote: > > > > > In addition, in the dictionary, "localDate" is one word, but in the > > > examples, and in the code in clock, it is not. > > > > > > On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 12:13 PM, Mike Kerner < > MikeKerner at roadrunner.com > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > That's where I looked. > > > > If you look at the documentation for date, the only thing that comes > up > > > is > > > > local date, but in the example, local is colorized as a modifier and > > date > > > > as a keyword, and the same occurs with time - it is shown as local > > time, > > > > but again, local is colorized as a modifier and time as a keyword, > but > > > > neither time nor date are documented per se, which makes me wonder > what > > > > syntax is really available, and if there are other modifiers. > > > > > > > > The example incorrectly sets the timezone as UTC0, when what it > should > > be > > > > doing is determining the timezone either by comparison to UTC or some > > > other > > > > means, and then setting. I'd like to beat the rest of the community > to > > > the > > > > punch and submit the fix to Git, but I don't want to waste my time if > > the > > > > syntax is deprecated on arrival. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 11:40 AM, Peter TB Brett < > > > peter.brett at livecode.com > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> On 31/08/2015 16:38, Mike Kerner wrote: > > > >> > > > >>> Does anyone know how to find the LCB API's? I was trying to fix a > > bug > > > in > > > >>> the new clock widget over the weekend, but the various functions > that > > > it > > > >>> calls are not documented anywhere that I've looked, so far. > > > >>> > > > >> > > > >> If you go into the dictionary in the IDE, there's a drop down menu > at > > > the > > > >> top left. If you select "LiveCode Builder" from the list, it'll > show > > > you > > > >> all the syntax available. > > > >> > > > >> Which particular things did you run into in the clock widget that > > > weren't > > > >> documented? > > > >> > > > >> Peter > > > >> > > > >> -- > > > >> Dr Peter Brett > > > >> LiveCode Engine Development Team > > > >> > > > >> LiveCode on reddit: https://reddit.com/r/livecode > > > >> > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > >> use-livecode mailing list > > > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > > >> subscription preferences: > > > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > > > and did a little diving. > > > > And God said, "This is good." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > > and did a little diving. > > > And God said, "This is good." > > > _______________________________________________ > > > use-livecode mailing list > > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > > subscription preferences: > > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From ali.lloyd at livecode.com Mon Aug 31 12:50:42 2015 From: ali.lloyd at livecode.com (Ali Lloyd) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 16:50:42 +0000 Subject: Release: 8.0 DP4... also, HTML5 In-Reply-To: References: <8F22969E-8683-4B43-A4C4-46C456FF40FD@gmail.com> <55E47A55.6050303@livecode.com> Message-ID: Hi David, You most likely have old versions of those widgets downloaded from the store - if you delete them from you My Livecode/extensions folder and restart you will see the functioning packaged versions. On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 5:27 PM Colin Holgate wrote: > Although the notes about HTML5 not supporting widgets yet, I see them just > fine when I drag them out. > > > > On Aug 31, 2015, at 12:15 PM, David Bovill wrote: > > > > ON OSX the widgets svgpath, circle progress and clock fail to load and > show > > a red exclamation mark - is that expected? > > > > On 31 August 2015 at 17:01, Fraser Gordon > > wrote: > > > >> On 31/08/2015 16:57, Colin Holgate wrote: > >>> Did you know that button is disabled? > >> > >> It is disabled by design in commercial engines as we don't have > >> everything ready for commercial deployment yet - for now, only Community > >> edition will deploy to HTML5. The stack file is unprotected and easily > >> downloadable so I wouldn't recommend trying to do it manually! > >> > >> Fraser > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From ali.lloyd at livecode.com Mon Aug 31 12:52:25 2015 From: ali.lloyd at livecode.com (Ali Lloyd) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 16:52:25 +0000 Subject: LCB API's In-Reply-To: References: <55E4757D.9090601@livecode.com> Message-ID: There is currently no way to reliably detect the timezone in LCB at the moment, unfortunately. So currently the timezone property of the clock is actually (as you note) incorrect, and actually represents a local timezone offset. We need to add some syntax to LCB which allows access to the timezone. On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 5:53 PM Ali Lloyd wrote: > Yes, if you look at the table for the entry for com.livecode.date, there > are three column headings: > NameSummarySyntax > LocalDate is the name of the entry in the dictionary. > > "the local date" is the syntax. > > The timezone thing you have found in the release notes is in the IDE > changes section, undewr the Property Inspector heading, and states > A timezone property editor has been added which contains a dropdown list > of timezones (com.livecode.pi.timezone) > > The property inspector has editors for different property types. The > timezone editor was added as an editor for any property that might want be > displayed as representing a timezone in the IDE in the property inspector. > All such editors begin with the prefix com.livecode.pi. They are not LCB > modules. > > On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 5:28 PM Mike Kerner > wrote: > >> Now I'm really confused. If I don't search for "date" or "time" and >> instead go to the LCB side, and scroll down to com.livecode.date, it lists >> localDate, but the example that comes up when you select it shows "local >> date" as the syntax and in the example, shows "local time". So, that's >> supposed to be LCS and not LCB? Also, if that is new LCS, isn't that >> going >> to cause confusion with LOCAL declarations? >> >> The other thing I notieced was that in the release notes, there is a >> reference to com.livecode.timezone, which gave me hope that I could find >> what I needed in there, but it does not seem to be documented in the API, >> which leads me to believe that either it isn't documented, yet, or I'm not >> supposed to go there. >> >> On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 12:22 PM, Ali Lloyd >> wrote: >> >> > The dictionary attempts to detect whether any code snippet is livecode >> > script or livecode builder - in this case it appears to be autodetecting >> > incorrectly. I will have to investigate ways of fixing this. >> > >> > The syntax of everything is as it is displayed in the syntax field - the >> > "LocalDate" you can see is just the name of the dictionary entry. >> > >> > On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 5:14 PM Mike Kerner >> > wrote: >> > >> > > In addition, in the dictionary, "localDate" is one word, but in the >> > > examples, and in the code in clock, it is not. >> > > >> > > On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 12:13 PM, Mike Kerner < >> MikeKerner at roadrunner.com >> > > >> > > wrote: >> > > >> > > > That's where I looked. >> > > > If you look at the documentation for date, the only thing that >> comes up >> > > is >> > > > local date, but in the example, local is colorized as a modifier and >> > date >> > > > as a keyword, and the same occurs with time - it is shown as local >> > time, >> > > > but again, local is colorized as a modifier and time as a keyword, >> but >> > > > neither time nor date are documented per se, which makes me wonder >> what >> > > > syntax is really available, and if there are other modifiers. >> > > > >> > > > The example incorrectly sets the timezone as UTC0, when what it >> should >> > be >> > > > doing is determining the timezone either by comparison to UTC or >> some >> > > other >> > > > means, and then setting. I'd like to beat the rest of the >> community to >> > > the >> > > > punch and submit the fix to Git, but I don't want to waste my time >> if >> > the >> > > > syntax is deprecated on arrival. >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 11:40 AM, Peter TB Brett < >> > > peter.brett at livecode.com >> > > > > wrote: >> > > > >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> On 31/08/2015 16:38, Mike Kerner wrote: >> > > >> >> > > >>> Does anyone know how to find the LCB API's? I was trying to fix a >> > bug >> > > in >> > > >>> the new clock widget over the weekend, but the various functions >> that >> > > it >> > > >>> calls are not documented anywhere that I've looked, so far. >> > > >>> >> > > >> >> > > >> If you go into the dictionary in the IDE, there's a drop down menu >> at >> > > the >> > > >> top left. If you select "LiveCode Builder" from the list, it'll >> show >> > > you >> > > >> all the syntax available. >> > > >> >> > > >> Which particular things did you run into in the clock widget that >> > > weren't >> > > >> documented? >> > > >> >> > > >> Peter >> > > >> >> > > >> -- >> > > >> Dr Peter Brett >> > > >> LiveCode Engine Development Team >> > > >> >> > > >> LiveCode on reddit: https://reddit.com/r/livecode >> > > >> >> > > >> _______________________________________________ >> > > >> use-livecode mailing list >> > > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> > > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> > > >> subscription preferences: >> > > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > >> >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > -- >> > > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >> > > > On the second day, God created the oceans. >> > > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >> > > > and did a little diving. >> > > > And God said, "This is good." >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > -- >> > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >> > > On the second day, God created the oceans. >> > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >> > > and did a little diving. >> > > And God said, "This is good." >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > use-livecode mailing list >> > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> > > subscription preferences: >> > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > use-livecode mailing list >> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> > subscription preferences: >> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth >> On the second day, God created the oceans. >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >> and did a little diving. >> And God said, "This is good." >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> > From MikeKerner at roadrunner.com Mon Aug 31 12:54:39 2015 From: MikeKerner at roadrunner.com (Mike Kerner) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 12:54:39 -0400 Subject: LCB API's In-Reply-To: References: <55E4757D.9090601@livecode.com> Message-ID: So if the name and the syntax are not the same then why show the name? The first thing one would be inclined to do is put "localDate" into one's code, which, I gather, would be a mistake. In addition, the syntax in the documentation colors "local" differently than "date", implying that "local" is a modifier, and "date" a keyword, but I take it I am incorrect in that assumption, since I can't find "local" in the LCB documentation without "date" (and I can't find "date" without "local"), and there do not appear to be any other modifiers available. On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 12:52 PM, Ali Lloyd wrote: > There is currently no way to reliably detect the timezone in LCB at the > moment, unfortunately. So currently the timezone property of the clock is > actually (as you note) incorrect, and actually represents a local timezone > offset. > > We need to add some syntax to LCB which allows access to the timezone. > > On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 5:53 PM Ali Lloyd wrote: > > > Yes, if you look at the table for the entry for com.livecode.date, there > > are three column headings: > > NameSummarySyntax > > LocalDate is the name of the entry in the dictionary. > > > > "the local date" is the syntax. > > > > The timezone thing you have found in the release notes is in the IDE > > changes section, undewr the Property Inspector heading, and states > > A timezone property editor has been added which contains a dropdown list > > of timezones (com.livecode.pi.timezone) > > > > The property inspector has editors for different property types. The > > timezone editor was added as an editor for any property that might want > be > > displayed as representing a timezone in the IDE in the property > inspector. > > All such editors begin with the prefix com.livecode.pi. They are not LCB > > modules. > > > > On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 5:28 PM Mike Kerner > > wrote: > > > >> Now I'm really confused. If I don't search for "date" or "time" and > >> instead go to the LCB side, and scroll down to com.livecode.date, it > lists > >> localDate, but the example that comes up when you select it shows "local > >> date" as the syntax and in the example, shows "local time". So, that's > >> supposed to be LCS and not LCB? Also, if that is new LCS, isn't that > >> going > >> to cause confusion with LOCAL declarations? > >> > >> The other thing I notieced was that in the release notes, there is a > >> reference to com.livecode.timezone, which gave me hope that I could find > >> what I needed in there, but it does not seem to be documented in the > API, > >> which leads me to believe that either it isn't documented, yet, or I'm > not > >> supposed to go there. > >> > >> On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 12:22 PM, Ali Lloyd > >> wrote: > >> > >> > The dictionary attempts to detect whether any code snippet is livecode > >> > script or livecode builder - in this case it appears to be > autodetecting > >> > incorrectly. I will have to investigate ways of fixing this. > >> > > >> > The syntax of everything is as it is displayed in the syntax field - > the > >> > "LocalDate" you can see is just the name of the dictionary entry. > >> > > >> > On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 5:14 PM Mike Kerner < > MikeKerner at roadrunner.com> > >> > wrote: > >> > > >> > > In addition, in the dictionary, "localDate" is one word, but in the > >> > > examples, and in the code in clock, it is not. > >> > > > >> > > On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 12:13 PM, Mike Kerner < > >> MikeKerner at roadrunner.com > >> > > > >> > > wrote: > >> > > > >> > > > That's where I looked. > >> > > > If you look at the documentation for date, the only thing that > >> comes up > >> > > is > >> > > > local date, but in the example, local is colorized as a modifier > and > >> > date > >> > > > as a keyword, and the same occurs with time - it is shown as local > >> > time, > >> > > > but again, local is colorized as a modifier and time as a keyword, > >> but > >> > > > neither time nor date are documented per se, which makes me wonder > >> what > >> > > > syntax is really available, and if there are other modifiers. > >> > > > > >> > > > The example incorrectly sets the timezone as UTC0, when what it > >> should > >> > be > >> > > > doing is determining the timezone either by comparison to UTC or > >> some > >> > > other > >> > > > means, and then setting. I'd like to beat the rest of the > >> community to > >> > > the > >> > > > punch and submit the fix to Git, but I don't want to waste my time > >> if > >> > the > >> > > > syntax is deprecated on arrival. > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 11:40 AM, Peter TB Brett < > >> > > peter.brett at livecode.com > >> > > > > wrote: > >> > > > > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> On 31/08/2015 16:38, Mike Kerner wrote: > >> > > >> > >> > > >>> Does anyone know how to find the LCB API's? I was trying to > fix a > >> > bug > >> > > in > >> > > >>> the new clock widget over the weekend, but the various functions > >> that > >> > > it > >> > > >>> calls are not documented anywhere that I've looked, so far. > >> > > >>> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> If you go into the dictionary in the IDE, there's a drop down > menu > >> at > >> > > the > >> > > >> top left. If you select "LiveCode Builder" from the list, it'll > >> show > >> > > you > >> > > >> all the syntax available. > >> > > >> > >> > > >> Which particular things did you run into in the clock widget that > >> > > weren't > >> > > >> documented? > >> > > >> > >> > > >> Peter > >> > > >> > >> > > >> -- > >> > > >> Dr Peter Brett > >> > > >> LiveCode Engine Development Team > >> > > >> > >> > > >> LiveCode on reddit: https://reddit.com/r/livecode > >> > > >> > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > >> > > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> > > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> > > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> > > >> subscription preferences: > >> > > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > > >> > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > -- > >> > > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > >> > > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > >> > > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > >> > > > and did a little diving. > >> > > > And God said, "This is good." > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > -- > >> > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > >> > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > >> > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > >> > > and did a little diving. > >> > > And God said, "This is good." > >> > > _______________________________________________ > >> > > use-livecode mailing list > >> > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> > > subscription preferences: > >> > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > use-livecode mailing list > >> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> > subscription preferences: > >> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > >> On the second day, God created the oceans. > >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > >> and did a little diving. > >> And God said, "This is good." > >> _______________________________________________ > >> use-livecode mailing list > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > >> subscription preferences: > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > >> > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." From ali.lloyd at livecode.com Mon Aug 31 12:59:16 2015 From: ali.lloyd at livecode.com (Ali Lloyd) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 16:59:16 +0000 Subject: LCB API's In-Reply-To: References: <55E4757D.9090601@livecode.com> Message-ID: Yes, as I said before: "The dictionary attempts to detect whether any code snippet is livecode script or livecode builder - in this case it appears to be autodetecting incorrectly. I will have to investigate ways of fixing this." Showing the syntax instead of the name is probably something we could do. On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 5:54 PM Mike Kerner wrote: > So if the name and the syntax are not the same then why show the name? The > first thing one would be inclined to do is put "localDate" into one's code, > which, I gather, would be a mistake. > > In addition, the syntax in the documentation colors "local" differently > than "date", implying that "local" is a modifier, and "date" a keyword, but > I take it I am incorrect in that assumption, since I can't find "local" in > the LCB documentation without "date" (and I can't find "date" without > "local"), and there do not appear to be any other modifiers available. > > On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 12:52 PM, Ali Lloyd > wrote: > > > There is currently no way to reliably detect the timezone in LCB at the > > moment, unfortunately. So currently the timezone property of the clock is > > actually (as you note) incorrect, and actually represents a local > timezone > > offset. > > > > We need to add some syntax to LCB which allows access to the timezone. > > > > On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 5:53 PM Ali Lloyd > wrote: > > > > > Yes, if you look at the table for the entry for com.livecode.date, > there > > > are three column headings: > > > NameSummarySyntax > > > LocalDate is the name of the entry in the dictionary. > > > > > > "the local date" is the syntax. > > > > > > The timezone thing you have found in the release notes is in the IDE > > > changes section, undewr the Property Inspector heading, and states > > > A timezone property editor has been added which contains a dropdown > list > > > of timezones (com.livecode.pi.timezone) > > > > > > The property inspector has editors for different property types. The > > > timezone editor was added as an editor for any property that might want > > be > > > displayed as representing a timezone in the IDE in the property > > inspector. > > > All such editors begin with the prefix com.livecode.pi. They are not > LCB > > > modules. > > > > > > On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 5:28 PM Mike Kerner > > > > wrote: > > > > > >> Now I'm really confused. If I don't search for "date" or "time" and > > >> instead go to the LCB side, and scroll down to com.livecode.date, it > > lists > > >> localDate, but the example that comes up when you select it shows > "local > > >> date" as the syntax and in the example, shows "local time". So, > that's > > >> supposed to be LCS and not LCB? Also, if that is new LCS, isn't that > > >> going > > >> to cause confusion with LOCAL declarations? > > >> > > >> The other thing I notieced was that in the release notes, there is a > > >> reference to com.livecode.timezone, which gave me hope that I could > find > > >> what I needed in there, but it does not seem to be documented in the > > API, > > >> which leads me to believe that either it isn't documented, yet, or I'm > > not > > >> supposed to go there. > > >> > > >> On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 12:22 PM, Ali Lloyd > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >> > The dictionary attempts to detect whether any code snippet is > livecode > > >> > script or livecode builder - in this case it appears to be > > autodetecting > > >> > incorrectly. I will have to investigate ways of fixing this. > > >> > > > >> > The syntax of everything is as it is displayed in the syntax field - > > the > > >> > "LocalDate" you can see is just the name of the dictionary entry. > > >> > > > >> > On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 5:14 PM Mike Kerner < > > MikeKerner at roadrunner.com> > > >> > wrote: > > >> > > > >> > > In addition, in the dictionary, "localDate" is one word, but in > the > > >> > > examples, and in the code in clock, it is not. > > >> > > > > >> > > On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 12:13 PM, Mike Kerner < > > >> MikeKerner at roadrunner.com > > >> > > > > >> > > wrote: > > >> > > > > >> > > > That's where I looked. > > >> > > > If you look at the documentation for date, the only thing that > > >> comes up > > >> > > is > > >> > > > local date, but in the example, local is colorized as a modifier > > and > > >> > date > > >> > > > as a keyword, and the same occurs with time - it is shown as > local > > >> > time, > > >> > > > but again, local is colorized as a modifier and time as a > keyword, > > >> but > > >> > > > neither time nor date are documented per se, which makes me > wonder > > >> what > > >> > > > syntax is really available, and if there are other modifiers. > > >> > > > > > >> > > > The example incorrectly sets the timezone as UTC0, when what it > > >> should > > >> > be > > >> > > > doing is determining the timezone either by comparison to UTC or > > >> some > > >> > > other > > >> > > > means, and then setting. I'd like to beat the rest of the > > >> community to > > >> > > the > > >> > > > punch and submit the fix to Git, but I don't want to waste my > time > > >> if > > >> > the > > >> > > > syntax is deprecated on arrival. > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 11:40 AM, Peter TB Brett < > > >> > > peter.brett at livecode.com > > >> > > > > wrote: > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> On 31/08/2015 16:38, Mike Kerner wrote: > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>> Does anyone know how to find the LCB API's? I was trying to > > fix a > > >> > bug > > >> > > in > > >> > > >>> the new clock widget over the weekend, but the various > functions > > >> that > > >> > > it > > >> > > >>> calls are not documented anywhere that I've looked, so far. > > >> > > >>> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> If you go into the dictionary in the IDE, there's a drop down > > menu > > >> at > > >> > > the > > >> > > >> top left. If you select "LiveCode Builder" from the list, > it'll > > >> show > > >> > > you > > >> > > >> all the syntax available. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Which particular things did you run into in the clock widget > that > > >> > > weren't > > >> > > >> documented? > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Peter > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> > > >> Dr Peter Brett > > >> > > >> LiveCode Engine Development Team > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> LiveCode on reddit: https://reddit.com/r/livecode > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> > > >> use-livecode mailing list > > >> > > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > >> > > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > >> > > >> subscription preferences: > > >> > > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > -- > > >> > > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > >> > > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > >> > > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > >> > > > and did a little diving. > > >> > > > And God said, "This is good." > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > -- > > >> > > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > >> > > On the second day, God created the oceans. > > >> > > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > >> > > and did a little diving. > > >> > > And God said, "This is good." > > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > >> > > use-livecode mailing list > > >> > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > >> > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > >> > > subscription preferences: > > >> > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > >> > > > > >> > _______________________________________________ > > >> > use-livecode mailing list > > >> > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > >> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > >> > subscription preferences: > > >> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > > >> On the second day, God created the oceans. > > >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > > >> and did a little diving. > > >> And God said, "This is good." > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> use-livecode mailing list > > >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > >> subscription preferences: > > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, > and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Mon Aug 31 13:20:41 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 17:20:41 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Bug] Red Dot Breakpoints Ignored - Recipe References: <55E23505.2000404@ahsoftware.net> <55E23982.8020806@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Richard Gaskin writes: > > Mark Wieder wrote: > > The oddest part to me is that there's already a mechanism in the > > engine for dealing with this, but the IDE doesn't use it. > > What is that mechanism? > the watchedvariables It's not documented and currently broken in LC 7/8, but it's being fixed. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Mon Aug 31 13:56:32 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 17:56:32 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Bug] Red Dot Breakpoints Ignored - Recipe References: <55E1F23B.2020602@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: Kay C Lan writes: > The debugger does not stop because the condtion isn't invalid but it > doesn't tell me that - well it didn't use to but now I know that a reason > that Red Dots are ignored is because of a mistake in my conditional > statement it will trigger me to load it into the msg box and see if it > works. Yeah - that's an engine bug that is currently on its way to being fixed. http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15822 > What is the bug number for Red Dots ignored, I'd like to add my thoughts > that after clicking the Ok button on the conditional statement that a > validity check MUST be carried out. Surely this must be one of the reasons > for user frustration with Red Dots. Good question / good point. I don't use the IDE script editor much, and certainly don't use the red-dot breakpoint feature, so I haven't filed one. You should file one if there isn't one already. O really think that whole mechanism should be rethought, though, so fixing the problem may involve rewriting several chunks of the IDE. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From irog at mac.com Mon Aug 31 13:57:49 2015 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 10:57:49 -0700 Subject: Set the Behavior Not Working In-Reply-To: References: <55E23505.2000404@ahsoftware.net> <55E23982.8020806@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Can anyone tell me why this: "set the behavior of image id 1727 to button id 1721 of stack ?mySillyStack?" does not work! i.e. it empties the behavior of image id 1727 Yet, I can paste: "button id 1721 of stack ?mySillyStack?" into the behavior of image id 1727 and it works??? I?m using LC Community 6.6.5 on Mac OS X 10.10.5 Thanks, Roger From paul at researchware.com Mon Aug 31 13:59:02 2015 From: paul at researchware.com (Paul Dupuis) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 13:59:02 -0400 Subject: LC676 IDE change in behavior? In-Reply-To: References: <55E477D2.1000608@researchware.com> Message-ID: <55E495E6.9050808@researchware.com> On 8/31/2015 12:39 PM, Thierry Douez wrote: > Here it is: > > http://quality.runrev.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15721 > > and if you can provide a sample stack, > it could help (see my last comment in qcc) > > Regards, > > Thierry Thank you. It is apparently the same bug. I added a sample stack and recipe to your bug report. From scott at tactilemedia.com Mon Aug 31 14:02:08 2015 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 11:02:08 -0700 Subject: Set the Behavior Not Working In-Reply-To: References: <55E23505.2000404@ahsoftware.net> <55E23982.8020806@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Try setting the behavior to the long id of the button. Otherwise, I believe you need to quote the button reference. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media, UX/UI Design On 8/31/15, 10:57 AM, "Roger Guay" wrote: >Can anyone tell me why this: > > "set the behavior of image id 1727 to button id 1721 of stack >?mySillyStack?" > >does not work! i.e. it empties the behavior of image id 1727 > >Yet, I can paste: > > "button id 1721 of stack ?mySillyStack?" > >into the behavior of image id 1727 and it works??? > > > >I?m using LC Community 6.6.5 on Mac OS X 10.10.5 > > >Thanks, >Roger >_______________________________________________ >use-livecode mailing list >use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >subscription preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From irog at mac.com Mon Aug 31 14:12:34 2015 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 11:12:34 -0700 Subject: Set the Behavior Not Working In-Reply-To: References: <55E23505.2000404@ahsoftware.net> <55E23982.8020806@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <4A524050-288E-46F7-801C-CF33F0BB05DE@mac.com> Thank you, Scott. The long id worked although I tried that earlier and it didn?t work? probably another error. Quoting the button reference did not work for me. Also tried bracketing and that did not work either. Thanks again! Roger > On Aug 31, 2015, at 11:02 AM, Scott Rossi wrote: > > Try setting the behavior to the long id of the button. > > Otherwise, I believe you need to quote the button reference. > > Regards, > > Scott Rossi > Creative Director > Tactile Media, UX/UI Design > > > > > On 8/31/15, 10:57 AM, "Roger Guay" wrote: > >> Can anyone tell me why this: >> >> "set the behavior of image id 1727 to button id 1721 of stack >> ?mySillyStack?" >> >> does not work! i.e. it empties the behavior of image id 1727 >> >> Yet, I can paste: >> >> "button id 1721 of stack ?mySillyStack?" >> >> into the behavior of image id 1727 and it works??? >> >> >> >> I?m using LC Community 6.6.5 on Mac OS X 10.10.5 >> >> >> Thanks, >> Roger >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Aug 31 14:13:09 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 13:13:09 -0500 Subject: Goodbye stsMLXEditor In-Reply-To: References: <55E24566.8040106@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <55E49935.4000400@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/30/2015 7:46 PM, Kay C Lan wrote: > Clicked on btn 'one' and I get this: > > 117,3,8 > 265,3,8 > 394,3,8 > 395,3,8 > 319,3,8 > 166,3,8 > 165,3,8 Like Mark said, the IDE interprets these for you. But Richard and I created a quick lookup utility for mobile app testing (where these same raw results are returned) which you could use for your situation too. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Mon Aug 31 14:16:36 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 18:16:36 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Documentation [was: Re: v8 DP3] References: <55DDD9F5.4040803@gmail.com> <55DDE73B.1040803@warrensweb.us> <55DE2F8C.4080405@gmail.com> <55DEB209.8040403@gmail.com> <1392CC08-70FC-4784-A05C-1A2AF4E1321B@techstrategies.com.au> <55DEB872.6080901@gmail.com> <1997ed2437174f2275501c52474b2b10@livecode.com> <55DF7583.1010101@hyperactivesw.com> <55DFFD92.7060507@gmail.com> <55E00A84.1090300@gmail.com> <55E025CA.1000804@gmail.com> <55E02806.7060602@livecode.com> <55E029BA.7050605@gmail.com> <55E02AC4.6080307@gmail.com> <55E3EA14.5090408@ahsoftware.net> <498C1C5C-268D-4526-8D03-544AB60F3D91@techstrategies.com.au> Message-ID: Charles Warwick writes: > However, you can also install a plugin called ?Git Plus? that allows you to use keyboard shortcuts to > add/commit/push etc? Thanks - wasn't aware of that one. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From dochawk at gmail.com Mon Aug 31 14:22:14 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 11:22:14 -0700 Subject: "it" refers to button after copy in IDE, but to group of button in standalone Message-ID: This took a while to track down, partially due to the long compile times. the code: *copy* btn "ch" to *group* "btnGrp" *answer* "theLin: " & cr & "1: " & item 1 of theLin & cr & "2: " & item 2 of theLin & cr & "3: " & item 3 of theLin \ & cr & cr & it & cr & the long id of it shows that "it" contains not the id of the button, but the id of the group in a standalone. However, in the IDE, it works just fine, and the id from it can be used to manipulate the button. This is in 7.0.6 Can anyone confirm, or tell me that it *should* act like this? -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From peter.brett at livecode.com Mon Aug 31 14:27:30 2015 From: peter.brett at livecode.com (Peter TB Brett) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 19:27:30 +0100 Subject: Release: 8.0 DP4... also, HTML5 In-Reply-To: References: <8F22969E-8683-4B43-A4C4-46C456FF40FD@gmail.com> <55E47A55.6050303@livecode.com> Message-ID: <4dc83d61ffe47f1d5331dd19e7b14297@livecode.com> On 2015-08-31 17:27, Colin Holgate wrote: > Although the notes about HTML5 not supporting widgets yet, I see them > just fine when I drag them out. Yes! They work fine in the IDE. Unfortunately, they don't get included in the standalone yet (and even if they did, they wouldn't do anything because the supporting code isn't ready). After commercial support, widgets are the next thing on our HTML5 "to do" list. Peter -- Dr Peter Brett LiveCode Open Source Team LiveCode on reddit! From scott at tactilemedia.com Mon Aug 31 14:38:59 2015 From: scott at tactilemedia.com (Scott Rossi) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 11:38:59 -0700 Subject: Set the Behavior Not Working In-Reply-To: <4A524050-288E-46F7-801C-CF33F0BB05DE@mac.com> References: <55E23505.2000404@ahsoftware.net> <55E23982.8020806@fourthworld.com> <4A524050-288E-46F7-801C-CF33F0BB05DE@mac.com> Message-ID: <560CA80E-9F68-45F7-B795-DC1BC5EFECA6@tactilemedia.com> I've always used the long id (or the behavior format itself) and have never had an issue assigning a behavior. Regards, Scott Rossi Creative Director Tactile Media UX/UI Design > On Aug 31, 2015, at 11:12 AM, Roger Guay wrote: > > Thank you, Scott. The long id worked although I tried that earlier and it didn?t work? probably another error. > > Quoting the button reference did not work for me. Also tried bracketing and that did not work either. > > Thanks again! > > Roger > > > > > >> On Aug 31, 2015, at 11:02 AM, Scott Rossi wrote: >> >> Try setting the behavior to the long id of the button. >> >> Otherwise, I believe you need to quote the button reference. >> >> Regards, >> >> Scott Rossi >> Creative Director >> Tactile Media, UX/UI Design >> >> >> >> >>> On 8/31/15, 10:57 AM, "Roger Guay" wrote: >>> >>> Can anyone tell me why this: >>> >>> "set the behavior of image id 1727 to button id 1721 of stack >>> ?mySillyStack?" >>> >>> does not work! i.e. it empties the behavior of image id 1727 >>> >>> Yet, I can paste: >>> >>> "button id 1721 of stack ?mySillyStack?" >>> >>> into the behavior of image id 1727 and it works??? >>> >>> >>> >>> I?m using LC Community 6.6.5 on Mac OS X 10.10.5 >>> >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Roger >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>> subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Mon Aug 31 14:43:38 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 18:43:38 +0000 (UTC) Subject: ANN: PowerDebug 1.1.17 References: <55E12B06.6050501@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: Kay C Lan writes: > > As the author of PowerDebug I was wondering if you had any insight into the > different levels of syntax checking LC applies when setting the script of > an object vs using the Scipt Editor. This is being discussed under the > recently posted Subject: Goodbye stsMLXEditor > > Also any insight into deciiphering 'the result' when a 'set script of' > contains errors? > > Sorry I don't know how to provide links to List posts but if you could post > your thoughts to that thread, that would be appreciated. In addition to what I've already posted, you mean? The script editor itself doesn't really do much in the way of syntax checking. It flags open strings as you're entering them, but that's about it. The engine is what parses the script and returns an error object when it first encounters a problem. That error object is returned as a multi-line string in the result of the 'set the script' command. Doesn't matter where the command was called from, the engine returns the same error. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From pete at lcsql.com Mon Aug 31 14:43:40 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 18:43:40 +0000 Subject: Goodbye stsMLXEditor In-Reply-To: <55E49935.4000400@hyperactivesw.com> References: <55E24566.8040106@fourthworld.com> <55E49935.4000400@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: +1, useful plugin On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 11:13 AM J. Landman Gay wrote: > On 8/30/2015 7:46 PM, Kay C Lan wrote: > > Clicked on btn 'one' and I get this: > > > > 117,3,8 > > 265,3,8 > > 394,3,8 > > 395,3,8 > > 319,3,8 > > 166,3,8 > > 165,3,8 > > Like Mark said, the IDE interprets these for you. But Richard and I > created a quick lookup utility for mobile app testing (where these same > raw results are returned) which you could use for your situation too. > > > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From prothero at earthednet.org Mon Aug 31 15:09:34 2015 From: prothero at earthednet.org (William Prothero) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 12:09:34 -0700 Subject: HTML5 test In-Reply-To: <46A85FF5-4552-4A82-B5EA-4DDFB554B339@gmail.com> References: <46A85FF5-4552-4A82-B5EA-4DDFB554B339@gmail.com> Message-ID: <26BB441B-0E12-4466-BF03-9544C82FC66E@earthednet.org> Colin: Cool! Bill > On Aug 31, 2015, at 9:46 AM, Colin Holgate wrote: > > Here?s an old stack, saved as HTML5: > > http://colin.scienceninja.com/html5/scrolling/scrolling.html > > The performance in Safari on my Mac is as good as it is in LiveCode. On my iPad Air the frame rate is a little slow. I?m still waiting for the page to load on my iPhone 3gs! > > Publishing to HTML5 is extremely quick, but there are some issues. The scrolling speed and direction is supposed to be based on the mouse position, but that seems not to work. The LC icon is the blue commercial version, but as you can see they?re not looking blue. Nor is the sky. > > Still, for not doing a single character change in the scripts, it?s a successful test! > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From rdimola at evergreeninfo.net Mon Aug 31 15:13:53 2015 From: rdimola at evergreeninfo.net (Ralph DiMola) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 15:13:53 -0400 Subject: Goodbye stsMLXEditor In-Reply-To: References: <55E24566.8040106@fourthworld.com> <55E49935.4000400@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: <005701d0e421$2d6609e0$88321da0$@net> +2 I use it on mobile. Debugging mobile was a nightmare before it. Ralph DiMola IT Director Evergreen Information Services rdimola at evergreeninfo.net -----Original Message----- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Peter Haworth Sent: Monday, August 31, 2015 2:44 PM To: How to use LiveCode Subject: Re: Goodbye stsMLXEditor +1, useful plugin On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 11:13 AM J. Landman Gay wrote: > On 8/30/2015 7:46 PM, Kay C Lan wrote: > > Clicked on btn 'one' and I get this: > > > > 117,3,8 > > 265,3,8 > > 394,3,8 > > 395,3,8 > > 319,3,8 > > 166,3,8 > > 165,3,8 > > Like Mark said, the IDE interprets these for you. But Richard and I > created a quick lookup utility for mobile app testing (where these > same raw results are returned) which you could use for your situation too. > > > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode at lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From irog at mac.com Mon Aug 31 15:22:00 2015 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 12:22:00 -0700 Subject: Set the Behavior Not Working In-Reply-To: <560CA80E-9F68-45F7-B795-DC1BC5EFECA6@tactilemedia.com> References: <55E23505.2000404@ahsoftware.net> <55E23982.8020806@fourthworld.com> <4A524050-288E-46F7-801C-CF33F0BB05DE@mac.com> <560CA80E-9F68-45F7-B795-DC1BC5EFECA6@tactilemedia.com> Message-ID: Thanks again, Scott. > On Aug 31, 2015, at 11:38 AM, Scott Rossi wrote: > > I've always used the long id (or the behavior format itself) and have never had an issue assigning a behavior. > > Regards, > > Scott Rossi > Creative Director > Tactile Media UX/UI Design > >> On Aug 31, 2015, at 11:12 AM, Roger Guay wrote: >> >> Thank you, Scott. The long id worked although I tried that earlier and it didn?t work? probably another error. >> >> Quoting the button reference did not work for me. Also tried bracketing and that did not work either. >> >> Thanks again! >> >> Roger >> >> >> >> >> >>> On Aug 31, 2015, at 11:02 AM, Scott Rossi wrote: >>> >>> Try setting the behavior to the long id of the button. >>> >>> Otherwise, I believe you need to quote the button reference. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Scott Rossi >>> Creative Director >>> Tactile Media, UX/UI Design >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> On 8/31/15, 10:57 AM, "Roger Guay" wrote: >>>> >>>> Can anyone tell me why this: >>>> >>>> "set the behavior of image id 1727 to button id 1721 of stack >>>> ?mySillyStack?" >>>> >>>> does not work! i.e. it empties the behavior of image id 1727 >>>> >>>> Yet, I can paste: >>>> >>>> "button id 1721 of stack ?mySillyStack?" >>>> >>>> into the behavior of image id 1727 and it works??? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I?m using LC Community 6.6.5 on Mac OS X 10.10.5 >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Roger >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> use-livecode mailing list >>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >>>> subscription preferences: >>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> use-livecode mailing list >>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From pete at lcsql.com Mon Aug 31 15:52:50 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 19:52:50 +0000 Subject: Goodbye stsMLXEditor In-Reply-To: <005701d0e421$2d6609e0$88321da0$@net> References: <55E24566.8040106@fourthworld.com> <55E49935.4000400@hyperactivesw.com> <005701d0e421$2d6609e0$88321da0$@net> Message-ID: Folks, Thanks for all the info on this issue. I am not sure what happened as far as the script not being saved as I have not experienced that again and cannot remember the exact sequence of events that led up to it. I am confident that I did not receive any warnings or error when I saved the stack or closed Textmate but that's about all. I plan to try to reproduce the issue where strict compile errors are not detected by a set script statement and submit it as a bug. My only other issue with the sts plugin is that when I start Livecode, it shows with the checkbox checked to indicate it is active, but when I edit a script, the script editor window is used. I have to uncheck and recheck the checkbox and then all works fine. I suspect that something in the startup code is causing a runtime error and the rest of the startup code is not being executed as a result. On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 12:11 PM Ralph DiMola wrote: > +2 > > I use it on mobile. Debugging mobile was a nightmare before it. > > Ralph DiMola > IT Director > Evergreen Information Services > rdimola at evergreeninfo.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-bounces at lists.runrev.com] On > Behalf > Of Peter Haworth > Sent: Monday, August 31, 2015 2:44 PM > To: How to use LiveCode > Subject: Re: Goodbye stsMLXEditor > > +1, useful plugin > > On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 11:13 AM J. Landman Gay > wrote: > > > On 8/30/2015 7:46 PM, Kay C Lan wrote: > > > Clicked on btn 'one' and I get this: > > > > > > 117,3,8 > > > 265,3,8 > > > 394,3,8 > > > 395,3,8 > > > 319,3,8 > > > 166,3,8 > > > 165,3,8 > > > > Like Mark said, the IDE interprets these for you. But Richard and I > > created a quick lookup utility for mobile app testing (where these > > same raw results are returned) which you could use for your situation > too. > > > > > > > > -- > > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com > > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Aug 31 15:49:31 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 12:49:31 -0700 Subject: Set the Behavior Not Working In-Reply-To: <560CA80E-9F68-45F7-B795-DC1BC5EFECA6@tactilemedia.com> References: <560CA80E-9F68-45F7-B795-DC1BC5EFECA6@tactilemedia.com> Message-ID: <55E4AFCB.7000106@fourthworld.com> Roger Guay wrote: > Can anyone tell me why this: > > "set the behavior of image id 1727 to button id 1721 of stack ?mySillyStack?" > > does not work! i.e. it empties the behavior of image id 1727 > > Yet, I can paste: > > "button id 1721 of stack ?mySillyStack?" > > into the behavior of image id 1727 and it works??? I don't know if this will clarify or confuse, but here goes: Remember that in LiveCode objects are often containers, allowing us to do things like: put field 1 into field 2 This works with button contents, and image contents as well - try this in the Message Box: put image 1 You should see the binary image data in the Message Box, since that's the value contained in that control. Buttons can contain data as well. When the button is used as a menu this data is the list of menu items, but any button can have data stored in it - try this on a standard push button: put "Something" into btn 1; put btn 1 The "set the behavior" command expects a *reference* to an object, but usually can't understand the *contents* of an object. So it may be helpful to think of your line as: set the behavior of image id 1727 to \ (button id 1721 of stack ?mySillyStack?) ...which obtains the text of the button, if any, and then attempts to set the image's behavior property to that value. If we had used the button we created in the above example as our object, your script line would be interpreted as: set the behavior of image id 1727 to "Something" ...which of course can only confuse an otherwise-reasonably-smart LiveCode engine. So as a general rule, having a habit of using the long id of an object will give you a reliable *reference* to an object whenever's a reference is needed, such as in the behavior property. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From simplsol at aol.com Mon Aug 31 17:37:18 2015 From: simplsol at aol.com (Paul Looney) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 14:37:18 -0700 Subject: [ANN]SoCal LiveCode Meeting, Sept 3 In-Reply-To: <55E24F86.3030408@fourthworld.com> References: <55E24F86.3030408@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Richard, Will we be discussing Clarence?s database speed improvements? Do you have a long VGA to VGA cable for the conference room monitor? Paul Looney > On Aug 29, 2015, at 5:34 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > The next meeting of the SoCal LiveCode User Group is coming up on > Thursday, Sept 3 in Pasadena at 7PM. > > IMPORTANT: The meeting is being held at our new location, Du-par's > Restaurant, on S. Lake Avenue near Cordova Street: > > Du-par's Pasadena, back room > 214 S. Lake Ave. > Pasadena, CA 91101 > > > > Meeting details in the forum: > > > Trevor DeVore will be joining us that evening, so it should be an especially good time. > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From irog at mac.com Mon Aug 31 18:01:51 2015 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 15:01:51 -0700 Subject: Set the Behavior Not Working In-Reply-To: <55E4AFCB.7000106@fourthworld.com> References: <560CA80E-9F68-45F7-B795-DC1BC5EFECA6@tactilemedia.com> <55E4AFCB.7000106@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <31409AF3-A3AD-4907-A2DF-00971D02C1C2@mac.com> I think I understand your point here, Richard, except the association with your last sentence. I thought the long id would insure the use of a behavior of buttons outside the host stack. Put here is the thing: I successfully used this: "set the behavior of last image to the long id of button ?myCoolBehavior" of card ?Main?? (card ?main? is in myCoolSameStack stack) When I use the message box for the behavior of that image, I get: "button id 1721 of stack ?myCoolSameStack?? why then can I not script: ?set the behavior of the image to button id 1721 of stack ?myCoolSameStack"? Thanks, Roger > On Aug 31, 2015, at 12:49 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > Remember that in LiveCode objects are often containers, allowing us to do things like: > > put field 1 into field 2 > > This works with button contents, and image contents as well - try this in the Message Box: > > put image 1 > > You should see the binary image data in the Message Box, since that's the value contained in that control. > > Buttons can contain data as well. When the button is used as a menu this data is the list of menu items, but any button can have data stored in it - try this on a standard push button: > > put "Something" into btn 1; put btn 1 > > The "set the behavior" command expects a *reference* to an object, but usually can't understand the *contents* of an object. > > So it may be helpful to think of your line as: > > set the behavior of image id 1727 to \ > (button id 1721 of stack ?mySillyStack?) > > ...which obtains the text of the button, if any, and then attempts to set the image's behavior property to that value. If we had used the button we created in the above example as our object, your script line would be interpreted as: > > set the behavior of image id 1727 to "Something" > > ...which of course can only confuse an otherwise-reasonably-smart LiveCode engine. > > So as a general rule, having a habit of using the long id of an object will give you a reliable *reference* to an object whenever's a reference is needed, such as in the behavior property. > > -- From pete at lcsql.com Mon Aug 31 18:08:09 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 22:08:09 +0000 Subject: Set the Behavior Not Working In-Reply-To: <31409AF3-A3AD-4907-A2DF-00971D02C1C2@mac.com> References: <560CA80E-9F68-45F7-B795-DC1BC5EFECA6@tactilemedia.com> <55E4AFCB.7000106@fourthworld.com> <31409AF3-A3AD-4907-A2DF-00971D02C1C2@mac.com> Message-ID: The behavior is just a string of text so I think you need quotes around the behavior: set the behavior of the image to "button id 1721 of stack" & quote & "myCoolGameStack" & quote I set the behavior to the long id of the button, just because I don;t have write the clumsy code to put quotes around the stack name. On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 3:02 PM Roger Guay wrote: > I think I understand your point here, Richard, except the association with > your last sentence. I thought the long id would insure the use of a > behavior of buttons outside the host stack. Put here is the thing: > > I successfully used this: > > "set the behavior of last image to the long id of button > ?myCoolBehavior" of card ?Main?? > > (card ?main? is in myCoolSameStack stack) > > When I use the message box for the behavior of that image, I get: > > "button id 1721 of stack ?myCoolSameStack?? > > why then can I not script: > > ?set the behavior of the image to button id 1721 of stack > ?myCoolSameStack"? > > > Thanks, > > Roger > > > > > > > On Aug 31, 2015, at 12:49 PM, Richard Gaskin > wrote: > > > > Remember that in LiveCode objects are often containers, allowing us to > do things like: > > > > put field 1 into field 2 > > > > This works with button contents, and image contents as well - try this > in the Message Box: > > > > put image 1 > > > > You should see the binary image data in the Message Box, since that's > the value contained in that control. > > > > Buttons can contain data as well. When the button is used as a menu > this data is the list of menu items, but any button can have data stored in > it - try this on a standard push button: > > > > put "Something" into btn 1; put btn 1 > > > > The "set the behavior" command expects a *reference* to an object, but > usually can't understand the *contents* of an object. > > > > So it may be helpful to think of your line as: > > > > set the behavior of image id 1727 to \ > > (button id 1721 of stack ?mySillyStack?) > > > > ...which obtains the text of the button, if any, and then attempts to > set the image's behavior property to that value. If we had used the button > we created in the above example as our object, your script line would be > interpreted as: > > > > set the behavior of image id 1727 to "Something" > > > > ...which of course can only confuse an otherwise-reasonably-smart > LiveCode engine. > > > > So as a general rule, having a habit of using the long id of an object > will give you a reliable *reference* to an object whenever's a reference is > needed, such as in the behavior property. > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From irog at mac.com Mon Aug 31 18:21:03 2015 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 15:21:03 -0700 Subject: Set the Behavior Not Working In-Reply-To: References: <560CA80E-9F68-45F7-B795-DC1BC5EFECA6@tactilemedia.com> <55E4AFCB.7000106@fourthworld.com> <31409AF3-A3AD-4907-A2DF-00971D02C1C2@mac.com> Message-ID: That works! Thanks, Peter. > On Aug 31, 2015, at 3:08 PM, Peter Haworth wrote: > > The behavior is just a string of text so I think you need quotes around the > behavior: > > set the behavior of the image to "button id 1721 of stack" & quote & > "myCoolGameStack" & quote > > I set the behavior to the long id of the button, just because I don;t have > write the clumsy code to put quotes around the stack name. > > On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 3:02 PM Roger Guay wrote: > >> I think I understand your point here, Richard, except the association with >> your last sentence. I thought the long id would insure the use of a >> behavior of buttons outside the host stack. Put here is the thing: >> >> I successfully used this: >> >> "set the behavior of last image to the long id of button >> ?myCoolBehavior" of card ?Main?? >> >> (card ?main? is in myCoolSameStack stack) >> >> When I use the message box for the behavior of that image, I get: >> >> "button id 1721 of stack ?myCoolSameStack?? >> >> why then can I not script: >> >> ?set the behavior of the image to button id 1721 of stack >> ?myCoolSameStack"? >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Roger >> >> >> >> >> >>> On Aug 31, 2015, at 12:49 PM, Richard Gaskin >> wrote: >>> >>> Remember that in LiveCode objects are often containers, allowing us to >> do things like: >>> >>> put field 1 into field 2 >>> >>> This works with button contents, and image contents as well - try this >> in the Message Box: >>> >>> put image 1 >>> >>> You should see the binary image data in the Message Box, since that's >> the value contained in that control. >>> >>> Buttons can contain data as well. When the button is used as a menu >> this data is the list of menu items, but any button can have data stored in >> it - try this on a standard push button: >>> >>> put "Something" into btn 1; put btn 1 >>> >>> The "set the behavior" command expects a *reference* to an object, but >> usually can't understand the *contents* of an object. >>> >>> So it may be helpful to think of your line as: >>> >>> set the behavior of image id 1727 to \ >>> (button id 1721 of stack ?mySillyStack?) >>> >>> ...which obtains the text of the button, if any, and then attempts to >> set the image's behavior property to that value. If we had used the button >> we created in the above example as our object, your script line would be >> interpreted as: >>> >>> set the behavior of image id 1727 to "Something" >>> >>> ...which of course can only confuse an otherwise-reasonably-smart >> LiveCode engine. >>> >>> So as a general rule, having a habit of using the long id of an object >> will give you a reliable *reference* to an object whenever's a reference is >> needed, such as in the behavior property. >>> >>> -- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your >> subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From dochawk at gmail.com Mon Aug 31 18:39:58 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 15:39:58 -0700 Subject: more cute IDE/standalone discrepancies Message-ID: I'm hitting lots of these today, I suppose. A declaration beginning with on setPref pref theVal the IDE works just fine. It also compiles without error. On execution in the standalone, however, the handler is not found. I get errors 573 (handler not found) 587 (error in statement), 490 (repeat:error ins statement) and 241 handler:error in statement, and 353 (from the stack). Also, the line numbers seem to be wrong: it says line 13833 for the first 3, but indicates in the first line that that error is setPref, which is actually in another stack! Awe, nuts; I forgot the other odd one that hit at about the same time. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From dochawk at gmail.com Mon Aug 31 19:03:32 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 16:03:32 -0700 Subject: [Bug] Red Dot Breakpoints Ignored - Recipe In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, Aug 29, 2015 at 3:53 AM, Kay C Lan wrote: > The fact that valid = conditions are also ignored is clearly a bug. > > I tend to find that unconditional breakpoints are ignored more often than the conditionals. Then again, I tend to try once then put in an IF with a breakpoint statement. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Aug 31 19:14:30 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 16:14:30 -0700 Subject: [ANN]SoCal LiveCode Meeting, Sept 3 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55E4DFD6.2050200@fourthworld.com> Paul Looney wrote: > Will we be discussing Clarence?s database speed improvements? I haven't received Clarence's code, but time permitting after Trevor's talk I'd love to dive in and see what we can do with it. > Do you have a long VGA to VGA cable for the conference room monitor? Even better: a projection screen is on its way to me now.... -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Aug 31 19:37:13 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 16:37:13 -0700 Subject: Set the Behavior Not Working In-Reply-To: <31409AF3-A3AD-4907-A2DF-00971D02C1C2@mac.com> References: <31409AF3-A3AD-4907-A2DF-00971D02C1C2@mac.com> Message-ID: <55E4E529.8090903@fourthworld.com> Roger Guay wrote: > I think I understand your point here, Richard, except the association > with your last sentence. I thought the long id would insure the use > of a behavior of buttons outside the host stack. Put here is the > thing: > > I successfully used this: > > "set the behavior of last image to the long id of button > ?myCoolBehavior" of card ?Main?? > > (card ?main? is in myCoolSameStack stack) > > When I use the message box for the behavior of that image, I get: > > "button id 1721 of stack ?myCoolSameStack?? > > why then can I not script: > > ?set the behavior of the image to button id 1721 of stack > ?myCoolSameStack"? An object reference can be a string, or an expression that evaluates to a string. For example these put the same string into the variable tVar: put the long id of btn id 1721 of stack "SomeStack" into tVar put "btn id 1721 of stack ""e& "SomeStack" "e into tVar The difference between that second expression and the example you gave above that didn't work is that when using the "set" command the tokens following it will be evaluated. When quoted, or prepended with "the long id of ", the result of that expression is a string, which is then used by the "set" command. But without quotes the expression is evaluated, which results in "set" using the contents of the button. This ambiguity in xTalk was handy in allowing us to do things like this: put fld 1 + fld 2 into fld 3 ...but comes at a cost to ambiguity, since you're not the first person I've come across who expects an object reference to be treated as an object reference rather than as a series of tokens to be evaluated. Lately I tend to prefer property-driven syntax for its clarity: set the text of fld 3 to the text of fld 1 + the text of fld 2 Much more cumbersome to write, but avoids the whole question of whether I'm referring to a property of the object or the object itself. This "explanation" may only add to the confusion, but there's the rub: for all the seeming simplicity of xTalk, there are more than a few such ambiguities, which can make it harder to learn. And I believe this one is among the ambiguities LiveCode Builder addresses. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Mon Aug 31 19:57:54 2015 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2015 07:57:54 +0800 Subject: [Bug] Red Dot Breakpoints Ignored - Recipe In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 7:03 AM, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > > > > I tend to find that unconditional breakpoints are ignored more often than > the conditionals. > > Then again, I tend to try once then put in an IF with a breakpoint > statement. > Yes, that's exactly what I've come to do, but as per other posts, the overall impression newcomers to LC will get with such idosyncracies of the Script Editor/Debugger is not a good one. I will file a bug report. From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Mon Aug 31 19:59:40 2015 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2015 07:59:40 +0800 Subject: ANN: PowerDebug 1.1.17 In-Reply-To: References: <55E12B06.6050501@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: Yeah, sorry about that, you must have been posting there when I was drafting here. Thanks for you insight. On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 2:43 AM, Mark Wieder wrote: > Kay C Lan writes: > > > > > As the author of PowerDebug I was wondering if you had any insight into > the > > different levels of syntax checking LC applies when setting the script of > > an object vs using the Scipt Editor. This is being discussed under the > > recently posted Subject: Goodbye stsMLXEditor > > > > Also any insight into deciiphering 'the result' when a 'set script of' > > contains errors? > > > > Sorry I don't know how to provide links to List posts but if you could > post > > your thoughts to that thread, that would be appreciated. > > In addition to what I've already posted, you mean? > > The script editor itself doesn't really do much in the way of syntax > checking. > It flags open strings as you're entering them, but that's about it. > > The engine is what parses the script and returns an error object when it > first encounters a problem. That error object is returned as a multi-line > string in the result of the 'set the script' command. Doesn't matter where > the command was called from, the engine returns the same error. > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftware at gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Mon Aug 31 20:04:08 2015 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2015 08:04:08 +0800 Subject: Goodbye stsMLXEditor In-Reply-To: <55E49935.4000400@hyperactivesw.com> References: <55E24566.8040106@fourthworld.com> <55E49935.4000400@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 2:13 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote: Like Mark said, the IDE interprets these for you. But Richard and I created > a quick lookup utility for mobile app testing (where these same raw results > are returned) which you could use for your situation too. > > > Nice, very handy, thanks for sharing. From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Mon Aug 31 20:07:21 2015 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2015 08:07:21 +0800 Subject: Goodbye stsMLXEditor In-Reply-To: References: <55E24566.8040106@fourthworld.com> <55E49935.4000400@hyperactivesw.com> <005701d0e421$2d6609e0$88321da0$@net> Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 3:52 AM, Peter Haworth wrote: > > I plan to try to reproduce the issue where strict compile errors are not > detected by a set script statement and submit it as a bug. > > Thanks Pete, I'm sure you'll post the number here so we can add our comments. From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Mon Aug 31 20:38:17 2015 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2015 08:38:17 +0800 Subject: [Bug] Red Dot Breakpoints Ignored - Recipe In-Reply-To: References: <55E1F23B.2020602@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 1:56 AM, Mark Wieder wrote: > You should file one if there isn't one already. > > #15830 If anyone wishes to confirm they are seeing this on something other than OS X 10.9.5 LC 7.1 rc1 From pete at lcsql.com Mon Aug 31 20:44:18 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2015 00:44:18 +0000 Subject: Goodbye stsMLXEditor In-Reply-To: References: <55E24566.8040106@fourthworld.com> <55E49935.4000400@hyperactivesw.com> <005701d0e421$2d6609e0$88321da0$@net> Message-ID: Will do, should have it in there tomorrow. On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 5:07 PM Kay C Lan wrote: > On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 3:52 AM, Peter Haworth wrote: > > > > > I plan to try to reproduce the issue where strict compile errors are not > > detected by a set script statement and submit it as a bug. > > > > Thanks Pete, I'm sure you'll post the number here so we can add our > comments. > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > From pete at lcsql.com Mon Aug 31 20:45:45 2015 From: pete at lcsql.com (Peter Haworth) Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2015 00:45:45 +0000 Subject: [ANN]SoCal LiveCode Meeting, Sept 3 In-Reply-To: <55E4DFD6.2050200@fourthworld.com> References: <55E4DFD6.2050200@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: Can't make it to Pasadena but I'd love to see the speed improvement code if possible. On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 4:15 PM Richard Gaskin wrote: > Paul Looney wrote: > > Will we be discussing Clarence?s database speed improvements? > > I haven't received Clarence's code, but time permitting after Trevor's > talk I'd love to dive in and see what we can do with it. > > > Do you have a long VGA to VGA cable for the conference room monitor? > > Even better: a projection screen is on its way to me now.... > > -- > Richard Gaskin > Fourth World Systems > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web > ____________________________________________________________________ > Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com > > _______________________________________________ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode at lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode From jacque at hyperactivesw.com Mon Aug 31 21:49:36 2015 From: jacque at hyperactivesw.com (J. Landman Gay) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 20:49:36 -0500 Subject: more cute IDE/standalone discrepancies In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55E50430.1080904@hyperactivesw.com> On 8/31/2015 5:39 PM, Dr. Hawkins wrote: > I'm hitting lots of these today, I suppose. > > A declaration beginning with > > > on setPref pref theVal > > > the IDE works just fine. > > It also compiles without error. > > On execution in the standalone, however, the handler is not found. > > I get errors 573 (handler not found) 587 (error in statement), 490 > (repeat:error ins statement) and 241 handler:error in statement, and 353 > (from the stack). > > Also, the line numbers seem to be wrong: it says line 13833 for the first > 3, but indicates in the first line that that error is setPref, which is > actually in another stack! If the setPref handler is in another stack, it sounds like it isn't in the message hierarchy when it's needed. But it isn't completely clear from your description. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com From irog at mac.com Mon Aug 31 21:59:25 2015 From: irog at mac.com (Roger Guay) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 18:59:25 -0700 Subject: Set the Behavior Not Working In-Reply-To: <55E4E529.8090903@fourthworld.com> References: <31409AF3-A3AD-4907-A2DF-00971D02C1C2@mac.com> <55E4E529.8090903@fourthworld.com> Message-ID: <0EA90AFE-B2B2-416F-ACAD-EB08CA61F6EB@mac.com> Thanks for taking so much time on this, Richard. I get it now, but here is another example where the dictionary could do better! > On Aug 31, 2015, at 4:37 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > > An object reference can be a string, or an expression that evaluates to a string. For example these put the same string into the variable tVar: > > put the long id of btn id 1721 of stack "SomeStack" into tVar > put "btn id 1721 of stack ""e& "SomeStack" "e into tVar > > The difference between that second expression and the example you gave above that didn't work is that when using the "set" command the tokens following it will be evaluated. > > When quoted, or prepended with "the long id of ", the result of that expression is a string, which is then used by the "set" command. > > But without quotes the expression is evaluated, which results in "set" using the contents of the button. > > This ambiguity in xTalk was handy in allowing us to do things like this: > > put fld 1 + fld 2 into fld 3 > > ...but comes at a cost to ambiguity, since you're not the first person I've come across who expects an object reference to be treated as an object reference rather than as a series of tokens to be evaluated. > > Lately I tend to prefer property-driven syntax for its clarity: > > set the text of fld 3 to the text of fld 1 + the text of fld 2 > > Much more cumbersome to write, but avoids the whole question of whether I'm referring to a property of the object or the object itself. > > This "explanation" may only add to the confusion, but there's the rub: for all the seeming simplicity of xTalk, there are more than a few such ambiguities, which can make it harder to learn. And I believe this one is among the ambiguities LiveCode Builder addresses. From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Mon Aug 31 21:59:37 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 18:59:37 -0700 Subject: ANN: PowerDebug 1.1.17 In-Reply-To: References: <55E12B06.6050501@ahsoftware.net> Message-ID: <55E50689.6010302@ahsoftware.net> On 08/31/2015 04:59 PM, Kay C Lan wrote: > Yeah, sorry about that, you must have been posting there when I was > drafting here. Thanks for you insight. Mail servers seem to have been a bit spotty lately. Thanks for keeping this subject alive. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Mon Aug 31 22:02:44 2015 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2015 10:02:44 +0800 Subject: HTML5 test In-Reply-To: <46A85FF5-4552-4A82-B5EA-4DDFB554B339@gmail.com> References: <46A85FF5-4552-4A82-B5EA-4DDFB554B339@gmail.com> Message-ID: Nice! From mwieder at ahsoftware.net Mon Aug 31 22:08:52 2015 From: mwieder at ahsoftware.net (Mark Wieder) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 19:08:52 -0700 Subject: Script-only stacks [was: Re: Script Editor future] In-Reply-To: References: <065488f109ee63f061f1b2e659b4fb17@livecode.com> <0442D7CD-593F-4037-9CE6-81C9B9CA5783@sweattechnologies.com> <637B3454-5768-4413-AC9D-48C1CECE498B@sweattechnologies.com> <5f4920778016378a495c6bfca77de58c@livecode.com> <93CC3508-E3E1-4F16-8213-BDBC11023CC5@sweattechnologies.com> <1440924223283-4695770.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <55E508B4.8030608@ahsoftware.net> On 08/30/2015 02:24 AM, Peter TB Brett wrote: > This already exists! It's called the Business Application Framework. :P -- Mark Wieder ahsoftware at gmail.com From dochawk at gmail.com Mon Aug 31 22:16:41 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 19:16:41 -0700 Subject: more cute IDE/standalone discrepancies In-Reply-To: <55E50430.1080904@hyperactivesw.com> References: <55E50430.1080904@hyperactivesw.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 6:49 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: > If the setPref handler is in another stack, it sounds like it isn't in the > message hierarchy when it's needed. But it isn't completely clear from your > description > It is indeed in another stack. MCP is the mainstack, and automatically loads my library stack during startup. The libStack is brought in as part of the project during compile, and its script brought in by "start using stack libStack" By the point that this happens, the same routine in the lib stack has been called several times. But at this point something goes wrong calling it. I have an answer just before it, and another just inside setPref. It seems to be balking at the command call. -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From dochawk at gmail.com Mon Aug 31 22:25:15 2015 From: dochawk at gmail.com (Dr. Hawkins) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 19:25:15 -0700 Subject: [Bug] Red Dot Breakpoints Ignored - Recipe In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 4:57 PM, Kay C Lan wrote: > Yes, that's exactly what I've come to do, but as per other posts, the > overall impression newcomers to LC will get with such idosyncracies of the > Script Editor/Debugger is not a good one. > Very much so. I would probably would have been driven away by it. I lose more time to this nonsense in a typical programming day than in the entire time I spent with HyperCard 1 & 2 and SuperCard 1.5 put together . . . -- Dr. Richard E. Hawkins, Esq. (702) 508-8462 From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Aug 31 22:36:41 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 19:36:41 -0700 Subject: [ANN]SoCal LiveCode Meeting, Sept 3 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55E50F39.7090707@fourthworld.com> Peter Haworth wrote: > Can't make it to Pasadena but I'd love to see the speed improvement code if > possible. Clarence's code may not prove a useful case for optimizing others given the unusual constraints he needs to work within. But if optimization techniques are your thing, this is perhaps the best thread on optimization I've seen in our community yet: It's five pages long, and better reading that many novels. Take your time, it's an enjoyable thread, a story of an algo that originally took 9 minutes getting pared down shorter and shorter on each page from various members of the community until eventually it's completed in just a few milliseconds. I'll go ahead and spoil the ending because it's somewhat predictable: Dick Kreisel's contribution was the fastest. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com From lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com Mon Aug 31 23:44:42 2015 From: lan.kc.macmail at gmail.com (Kay C Lan) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2015 11:44:42 +0800 Subject: [OT] Atom Text Editor for Script Editiing - First Impressions Message-ID: Well finally got around to downloading Atom and giving it quick check out. Here are my quick observations compared to my favourite Text Editor and the Script Editor. Basically if you've never used a fully fledged Text Editor to write LC scripts I recommend you give Atom a try. You can get it here; https://atom.io/ Things I like: (OS X 10.9.5 - it is available on Win and Linux) 1) Once downloaded, when you start it up you are immediately presented with the Welcome Guide (which you can return to any time later simply by selecting 'Welcome Guide' at the bottom of the Help menu) Where you initially want to 'Install a Package'. Enter 'Livecode' into the search box and when you see 'language-livecode' pop up, click install - much easier than my favourite TE. Back at the Welcome Guide 'Choose a Theme' and in the search box type 'revignite' and install 'revigniter-syntax'. Again very easy. Open a new document and copy and past in a large script from LC. As syntax colouring is based on file suffix and your new file has no suffix you'll need to manual select the LiveCode Builder language at bottom right corner where it probably says 'Plain text'. Everything should be nicely coloured. 2) The colour syntax option in Atom is different to my TE, some things I like, others I don't, it's 50/50. One of the things I do like is in Atom variables are coloured, something that doesn't happen in my TE. 3) Code folding. In my TE I can only fold whole handlers. In Atom it is more granular, you can fold on if, repeat and switch statements. Excellent!! 4) Autocomplete. Just like my TE when I start to type out a variable it offers up autocompletions so there is little chance of incorrectly spelling them - I don't have to use Strict Compilation mode. 5) Dictionary. Actually I don't think this has been implemented as a dictionary but Atom seems to know all the LC keywords, so backbroundColor is spelt 'or' not 'our'. Can't spell keywords incorrectly. This was already done for me with Atom, for my TE I had to manually add a bunch of stuff. 6) Boilerplates. If you type 'if' or 'repeat' you are offered up an autocomplete. For some reason 'switch' is not included but then again in my TE I had to manually add the if and repeat boilerplates, Atom comes with these pre-installed. So all I have to do is add a couple of switch 'snippets' - the term Atom uses for boilerplates. 7) Bracket Pairing. In my TE it highlights when a bracket is unpaired to remind you you need to type the closing pair. In Atom if you type an open bracket it automatically types the closing bracket. I imagine in 99.99% of occasions this will be a time saver and ensure you never leave off a balanced bracket. Not only that the same applies for single and double quote. A very nice touch. I'll have to see if I can add that to my TE. 8) Difference comparison is available, obviously, but I haven't played with it so can't compare. 9) Not sure on Mac if it plays nicely with Versions. What I don't like: 1) It's 10 times the size of my TE, which partly explains why it is slower than my TE. The real reason, my TE is written in C++ whilst Atom is written in HTML, CSS and Javascript. So it is more comparable with LiveCode and in this regard it is much faster than the Script Editor. I can live with that. 2) Whenever I bring Atom to the front the process Atom Helper takes up 102% of one of my CPUs and the cooling fan goes into overdrive. OK it probably realises I need a LOT of help ;-) I won't be using Atom unless I can plug my laptop in. 3) I can't get rid of the navigation pane down the left side of the window. If it contained handlers I'd sort of be OK with that, but it is just a File tree which is a complete waste of space, if I put the mouse over the document title it tells me exactly where it is located on my HD, I don't need and entire pane with half a dozen lines at the top used and the rest empty. My TE allows me to have wall to wall text, just a bit at the top and bottom is taken up with tools, navigation niceties and important information. In this regard Atom is worse than the SE because at least with the SE the left pane is filled with useful info - handler list. Something must be wrong: Which brings me to the only real show stopper for me, which I assume I haven't set something up correctly, but I can't navigate the document based on handlers. In my TE, just like the SE, there is a button that lists all the handlers within the script so I just click on one and I'm immediately taken to it. I can't see that anywhere in Atom, currently I have to scroll to get any where or open a Search and type in the handler I'm after. At least the SE, which also has a space hogging left pane fills it with useful data. I must be missing something. If someone can point out how to set up Atom to hot link all the handlers I'll continue to give it ago, otherwise it will only be used for relatively small script; which is a pity because it does have some very nice features. From ambassador at fourthworld.com Mon Aug 31 23:50:39 2015 From: ambassador at fourthworld.com (Richard Gaskin) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 20:50:39 -0700 Subject: [OT] Atom Text Editor for Script Editiing - First Impressions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55E5208F.4070901@fourthworld.com> Kay C Lan wrote: > Well finally got around to downloading Atom and giving it quick check out. > Here are my quick observations compared to my favourite Text Editor and the > Script Editor. Good stuff, Kay. Thanks for posting that. What is your favorite Text Editor? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ____________________________________________________________________ Ambassador at FourthWorld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com