Up, Down and Sideways

Richmond richmondmathewson at gmail.com
Fri Dec 13 06:08:21 EST 2013

On 13/12/13 12:50, Martin Baxter wrote:
> On 13/12/13 10:42, Richmond wrote:
>> On 13/12/13 12:18, Martin Baxter wrote:
>>> On 13/12/13 05:32, Richmond wrote:
>>>> On 13/12/13 01:57, Warren Samples wrote:
>>>>> On 12/12/2013 02:31 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>>>>>> And that's why we need an authoritative source.  I've never looked
>>>>>> into
>>>>>> it deeply enough to find which component is handling the Alt keys.
>>>>>> But
>>>>>> if it's not Gnome, it may be something lower (though almost certainly
>>>>>> not the kernel), or something higher (possible Ubuntu's keybindings
>>>>>> interface, which I had thought were inherited from Gnome, but may be
>>>>>> part of what they get from Debian).
>>>>> These seem to be common shortcuts under Linux. I use them under KDE. I
>>>>> like alt+drag to resize in particular, and note that the only way I
>>>>> can grab and move the LiveCode tools palette is using alt. It may not
>>>>> be on by default in all distros. I can turn it on and off as well as
>>>>> change the modifier key. I have seen references in forum posts which
>>>>> indicated that at least some KDE users who had never used these
>>>>> shortcuts had to turn them on.
>>>>> When I change the modifier key for window resizing and moving to
>>>>> "Meta" (option), Richmond's script runs as expected. LiveCode works as
>>>>> stated, so long as the OS isn't hijacking the signal for its own
>>>>> purposes further up the hierarchy.
>>>>> Conflicts in creating shortcuts are always a possibility and require a
>>>>> little caution, and it's good to make people aware of the high
>>>>> probability that "alt+mouseX" will be unavailable to LiveCode under
>>>>> Linux, but I think it's not quite right to suggest it's broken.
>>>>> Warren
>>>> That's a good point, but the problem I have is that I am putting a
>>>> program together for use by Professors of Old Church Slavonic who have
>>>> computers running Mac, Win and Linux and know nothing at all about how
>>>> to muck about the mod. keys on their machines.
>>>> Therefore my standalone should "just work" when it ends up on some
>>>> Prof's machine, regardless of
>>>> what system s/he is running.  AND, the mod. keys used should be the same
>>>> ones regardless of OS as well.
>>>> Richmond.
>>> On my (elderly) Ubuntu, variant/high bit characters are typed using
>>> combinations of:
>>> Alt Gr
>>> shift
>>> Rather than alt + shift. And that is the stock configuration. You might
>>> perhaps be able to use the keysdown to detect these, but the returned
>>> keycodes may vary across systems I guess.
>>> Easier for left-handers anyway.
>>> Might be nice for linux users if livecode could detect the state of Alt
>>> Gr key.
>>> On my Ubuntu, the keysdown gives me:
>>> R Shift    65506
>>> L Shift 65505
>>> Alt    [nothing]
>>> Alt Gr    65027
>>> L Shift + Alt    65505,65511
>>> R Shift + Alt Gr    65506,65312
>>> I don't know if this helps you at all, but it seemed worth mentioning.
>>> I would expect that alt + shift should work for windows and mac though,
>>> so this issue is presumably Linux specific.
>>> Martin
>> That seems a helpful idea.
>> However, I'm not sure what you mean by 'Alt Gr'.
>> Richmond.
> The "other Alt key". It's found to the right of the space bar usually I
> believe. That's where it is on my MS keyboards anyway. Possibly some
> keyboards don't support it.

Aha, got it.

Well, on the old Mac keyboard I have connected to a Linux box here at my 
school (lunch break), there's 2 ALT buttons,
and on all the other ones I have except for the KEYNEEDS learner 
keyboards I have here for the 7-12 year old

Mind you, typing with a mod key on the right, rather than the left, is a 
bit awkward, specially
for right-handed folk.

Most programs use mod keys on the left-hand side of the keyboard, and 
using the Alt Gr key may be
a bit counter-intuitive.

I thought about using the Caps-lock key, but then realised that with its 
locking mechanism that
wouldn't really do.

> I suspect it may be what livecode calls the extend key?
> Anyway.
> Martin
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