Handling of final delimter (was Re: "this me"?)

[Mike Kerner]

Too badd I mizspeld "Atkinson".  OMG #FAIL


On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 8:30 PM, Mike Kerner <MikeKerner at roadrunner.com>wrote:

> I know I'm stuck with it, but I wish there was a preference that I could
> tick.  Sometimes I even wish I was actually good at C so I could take the
> source and fix it.
>
> No, wait.  Maybe I can fund forking it just for the sake of fixing that
> one thing.
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 6:39 PM, Richard Gaskin <ambassador at fourthworld.com
> > wrote:
>
>> That was some damn fine writing, my friend.
>>
>> There's too much code floating around for the delimiter behavior to
>> change, but your most excellent post earned you a dinner next time you're
>> in LA, or at RevLive in San Diego next year.  It would be my pleasure.
>>
>> Yep, xTalk is sometimes funky, like the rest of the imperfect world in
>> which it was born.
>>
>> But like any language, it's the community that makes a language great -
>> and I'm glad you're in this one.
>>
>>
>> --
>>  Richard Gaskin
>>  Fourth World
>>  LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
>>  Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com
>>  Follow me on Twitter:  http://twitter.com/**FourthWorldSys<http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys>
>>
>>
>> Mike Kerner wrote:
>>
>>  We also had this debate on several bug reports at quality.runrev.com, so
>>> you will find much of this hashed out over there, over several bug
>>> reports.  Excuse me while I wax extemporaneously for a moment.
>>>
>>>
>>> My fellow LiveCoders, I implore you, to reach within your souls and ask
>>> yourselves, are not all commas created equal?  Is a naked comma on front
>>> of
>>> a list somehow more important than the lowly little one on the back?  Are
>>> you so jaded by the unwashed masses of C# hackers trying to convince you
>>> that if your language doesn't have a ++ operator it isn't worthy?  No!
>>>  It
>>> is a sophisticated, verbose, beautiful and easy-to-read language that
>>> will
>>> not allow such abominations as "this me" to exist without a fight.  It
>>> is a
>>> language that has survived almost thirty years and has maintained that
>>> pure, amazing quality that is lacking from almost every other language
>>> that
>>> has evolved over that time - it is not a write-only language.  It wants
>>> to
>>> be read.  it wants to be updated and modernized.  It doesn't require
>>> anywhere near the number of comments or hacks or tweaks, because so much
>>> of
>>> it is self-explanatory.
>>>
>>> In light of that, I say to you that it is a language that should not
>>> count
>>> an empty item on the front of a list while ignoring the one in the back.
>>> We are not those people.  We are better than that.  We are not so steeped
>>> in tradition and the foibles of those who came before us that we leave
>>> them
>>> alone like they are sacred, because the code they wrote on their
>>> black-and-white Mac Pluses, when HyperCard came on a stack of 3-1/2"
>>> disks,
>>> is somehow more important than the code we write now.
>>>
>>> If someone brand new comes to this list - someone who has never used
>>> LiveCode, or Runtime Revolution, or SuperCard, or HyperCard or any of the
>>> other children or grandchildren of Bill Adkinson - if someone brand new,
>>> who does not value legacy over sanctimony comes to this list, and you
>>> explain to them what a container is, what empty is, what an itemDelimiter
>>> is, and how these tools laugh in the face of type declarations, and show
>>> them ",a", and ask them "How many items does that string contain?", what
>>> would they say?  If after they answer, and you show them "a," and ask
>>> them
>>> the same question, what would they answer then?
>>>
>>> Why is it that we treat the items in our lists like they are schleps in a
>>> queue to throw down their hard-earned Benjamins for a Taylor Swift
>>> concert?  Do we not believe in equality?  Do we really believe that "a,"
>>> and ",a" are different?  No.  Today I say to you that every item was
>>> created equal - even the last one.  Our past is imperfect, but our future
>>> can be.  Why is it that an empty item anywhere in a list matters, unless
>>> it
>>> is at the end?  It does matter.  It is significant.  It must be counted.
>>>
>>> For my part, I frequently run into this issue when I am working with
>>> databases and LiveCode.  "SELECT name, address1, address2" is one example
>>> where the developer is begging for trouble, because the last item may
>>> very
>>> well be empty, and therefore not worthy of counting.  Yet that is not
>>> nearly as horrible as what would happen if I were to INSERT or UPDATE
>>> using
>>> a list, either from a dataGrid or a container.  The errors returned are
>>> an
>>> open sore that remind you that not all items are created equal.  Not all
>>> items are significant.  Not all items deserved to be counted.
>>>
>>> If we are to continue with this deep, age-old injustice, then I say to
>>> you
>>> that the Scots must fix every other command that might somehow be
>>> affected
>>> by a blank lasty, and ensure that we are not reminded that trailing blank
>>> items even exist.  The database functions, when faced with "SELECT name,
>>> address1, address2" should return an extra comma on the end of the
>>> results
>>> when address2 is blank, because even though they do not want to face an
>>> empty last item, I must be on the watch for them, lest the "INSERT" that
>>> follows breaks my app and leaves me to gnash my teeth on the bitter taste
>>> of being so close, and yet so far.
>>>
>>>
>>> So, in closing, I simply ask you to say it with me now:
>>>
>>> "Every comma is significant, even the last one."
>>>
>>> --
>>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
>>> On the second day, God created the oceans.
>>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>>>    and did a little diving.
>>> And God said, "This is good."
>>>
>>
>>
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>
>
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>    and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
>



-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."